# Terror attack in christmas market in Berlin



## MarkusS

a truck smashed into the christmas market in Berlin...

one person died. That terrorist swine failed to kill more because his truck smashed into the christmas tree which stopped him

Thank you Merkel...you disgusting .... brought all this scum into Europe.

We need a clean up and we need it quick. 






I dont want hear this "human rights" nonsense anymore. We need to make hard decissions. 

@waz @flamer84 @Vergennes 

Hail Forza Italia!
Hail Front National!
Hail AfD!
Hail UKIP!

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## Hassan Guy

MarkusS said:


> brought all this scum into Europe.


?


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## MarkusS

Hassan Guy said:


> ?




What do you not understand? It was Merkel who allowed 900.000 3rd. worlders wiith out documents into europe. Terrorists, criminals and rapists, primitives and savages. Our security goes down the toilet. Women cant go out alone. You must fear to get crushed from a truck when you go on a christmas market.

None of this would have happened when this disgusting Merkel would have locked down as all others demanded from day one. 

Evry single victim is her responsibility.

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## Kabira

MarkusS said:


> What do you not understand? It was Merkel who allowed 900.000 3rd. worlders wiith out documents into europe. Terrorists, criminals and rapists, primitives and savages. Our security goes down the toilet. Women cant go out alone. You must fear to get crushed from a truck when you go on a christmas market.
> 
> None of this would have happened when this disgusting Merkel would have locked down as all others demanded from day one.
> 
> Evry single victim is her responsibility.



Do you know anything about driver? moozlim?


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## ranjeet

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810938948226842624


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## MarkusS

9 confirmed dead....50 injured...

My blood boils....

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## H!TchHiker

What is happening in world.......Sad incident..

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## EgyptianAmerican

MarkusS said:


> a truck smashed into the christmas market in Berlin...
> 
> one person died. That terrorist swine failed to kill more because his truck smashed into the christmas tree which stopped him
> 
> Thank you Merkel...you disgusting .... brought all this scum into Europe.
> 
> We need a clean up and we need it quick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want hear this "human rights" nonsense anymore. We need to make hard decissions.
> 
> @waz @flamer84 @Vergennes
> 
> Hail Forza Italia!
> Hail Front National!
> Hail AfD!
> Hail UKIP!




Who was the driver?

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## Bouhmeed

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Who was the driver?


Probably isis, isis attack everyone they are raided everywhere in syria and irak turkey should be careful too isis gonna attack you too


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## Vergennes

I feel for our German brothers,let's hope casualties are very minimal.

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## Proudpakistaniguy

MarkusS said:


> I dont want hear this "human rights" nonsense anymore. We need to make hard decissions.


First learn how to spell decisions and then moan loudly on internet as if its going to make any changes in German policies. I hope Merkel find time to read your post on PDF before making any decision

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## MarkusS

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Who was the driver?




I know we disagree on so many things...but try to understand me. 

I´m a young man. I have a family. I have friends. All i want is peace and a future where i must not fear for my loved ones. 

We both know who driver was. This did not happen in Europe before. And i want that this ends.

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## Bouhmeed

Why don't they give those isis some land in the desert and be done with it at least we can have peace let them live in their bubble they will fail anyway


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## ULKU-1

europe was fine before 2014 with the millions of migrants. its from the new wave of migrants

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## MarkusS

Proudpakistaniguy said:


> First learn how to spell decisions and then moan loudly on internet as if its going to make any changes in German policies. I hope Merkel find time to read your post on PDF before making any decision




Merkel is finished anyways. Far right AfD is at 20%. Merkel tries to save her *** with mass deportations. Its too late for her. 

This event will crush her even more.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Rip..., Sad to see blood everywhere in world , innocent people dies . I am very upset now, Can't digest news like this everyday, what civilians has to do with terrorists?? Why civilians are suffering everywhere? Wtf.....???????????????????????????????????

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## Proudpakistaniguy

MarkusS said:


> Merkel is finished anyways. Far right AfD is at 20%. Merkel tries to save her *** with mass deportations. Its too late for her.
> 
> This event will crush her even more.


Let see I wish you have full control of all European countries in your hands

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## Zaem

Bouhmeed said:


> Why don't they give those isis some land in the desert and be done with it at least we can have peace let them live in their bubble they will fail anyway


You cant, ISIS has the same Internationalist revolution ideology that Soviet Union had. ISIS doesnt want Syria, it wants the whole world.

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## Djinn

MarkusS said:


> Merkel is finished anyways. Far right AfD is at 20%. Merkel tries to save her *** with mass deportations. Its too late for her.
> 
> This event will crush her even more.


Merkel is the leader and representative of her country and unless you are German. You have no right to criticize her policies. Her country, her rules.


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## MarkusS

Djinn said:


> Merkel is the leader and representative of her country and unless you are German. You have no right to criticize her policies. Her country, her rules.



I can enyjoy her misery and clumsy tries to save her power. She is finished.

No comment from her by now. She plays submarine. Her entire ministers stay silent and leave the german people alone.


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## Proudpakistaniguy

ULKU-1 said:


> europe was fine before 2014 with the millions of migrants. its from the new wave of migrants


this all shit actually happened after Eurpoean countries blindly followed/supported the policies of Uncle SAM and then people like blair thought apology is enough for destroying others countries based on lies and deceptions .Government actually reap what they sow. This extremism is getting out of control and its not just killing non Muslims but Muslims as well

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## Gladius

Germany can only blame itself for taking in refugees. Europe needs to wake up to the threat fast. On a side note, what are Merkel's chances of winning the next election?


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## Zaem

Djinn said:


> Merkel is the leader and representative of her country and unless you are German. You have no right to criticize her policies. Her country, her rules.


Germany isnt dictatorship... In democracy you have the right to criticize leaders if you want. Especially aince Germany is part of EU it gives us EU citizens even more right to criticize her bad policies.


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## Proudpakistaniguy

RIP victims. More serious than thought

*Berlin: at least nine dead after truck crashes into Christmas market*
Many people also left injured after vehicle runs into night market, with police claiming initial indications point to a terror attack
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crashes-into-christmas-market


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## MarkusS

Gladius said:


> Germany can only blame itself for taking in refugees. Europe needs to wake up to the threat fast. On a side note, what are Merkel's chances of winning the next election?



Merkel plays submarine right now.

In Italy RAI TV said not one of her cabinet steps out and stands with the german people. When we had desaster in italy our PM issued a statement to give people support.

Merkel is the lowest scum one can imagine.


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## Zaem

Proudpakistaniguy said:


> this all shit actually happened after Eurpoean countries blindly followed/supported the policies of Uncle SAM and then people like blair thought apology is enough for destroying others countries based on lies and deceptions .Government actually reap what they sow. This extremism is getting out of control and its not just killing non Muslims but Muslims as well


US is despised in here, if you think US want Europe to become Islamist playground, youre dumb. 
This is far lefts fault, they cant understand that people are evil and groups like ISIS cant be beaten with #love. Theyre dumb people who are responsible for this mess

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## EgyptianAmerican

MarkusS said:


> I know we disagree on so many things...but try to understand me.
> 
> I´m a young man. I have a family. I have friends. All i want is peace and a future where i must not fear for my loved ones.
> 
> We both know who driver was. This did not happen in Europe before. And i want that this ends.




I understand you, is your party planning on deporting all the Muslims back to Muslim countries? Because then I agree, these idiots have been running from the Muslim world for too long. Content on not fixing problems and running to the west. 

These educated Muslims need to help fellow Muslims.

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## Zaem

Why cant we just bomb those ISIS scum? Thank God for Trump, I hope he understands that scum like ISIS is only beatable with force. 
ISIS is utter shit

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## Djinn

MarkusS said:


> I can enyjoy her misery and clumsy tries to save her power. She is finished.
> 
> No comment from her by now. She plays submarine. Her entire ministers stay silent and leave the german people alone.


Still non of your business. Her people elected her and they are responsible for her policies not other Europeans and irrespective of the 21st century "border less integration" the *borders* remain a reality. @Zaem This answers your post too.


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## Bouhmeed

Zaem said:


> You cant, ISIS has the same Internationalist revolution ideology that Soviet Union had. ISIS doesnt want Syria, it wants the whole world.


Did we try ? no one ever tried isis will not let go and they are literally dragging us with them, because people don't known that most people killed by isis are muslims


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## Proudpakistaniguy

Zaem said:


> US is despised in here, if you think US want Europe to become Islamist playground, youre dumb.
> This is far lefts fault, they cant understand that people are evil and groups like ISIS cant be beaten with #love. Theyre dumb people who are responsible for this mess


First comprehend the post properly and then reply. I said its was fault of European countries to blindly support the war adventures of US which brought misery for them otherwise they were all doing fine before joining this American illegal invasions in different countries

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## Zaem

EgyptianAmerican said:


> I understand you, is your party planning on deporting all the Muslims back to Muslim countries? Because then I agree, these idiots have been running from the Muslim world for too long. Content on not fixing problems and running to the west.
> 
> These educated Muslims need to help fellow Muslims.


Its not Islams fault, its humans fault. It doesnt matter what ideology, religion or skin colour, its just humans doing what they are good at.



Bouhmeed said:


> Did we try ? no one ever tried isis will not let go and they are literally dragging us with them, because people don't known that most people killed by isis are muslims


Going to congress saying we should give ISIS independent country would be career suicide, nevee gonna happen. Besides, if you give the devil your pinky, it will take the whole hand.

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## Bouhmeed

Isis are saying i am not joking(it's their plan) you don't want to be part of us(you muslims) we will make your life hell in europe and the us and as i can see they are winning


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## Zaem

Proudpakistaniguy said:


> First comprehend the post properly and then reply. I said its was fault of European countries to blindly support the war adventures of US which brought misery for them otherwise they were all doing fine before joining this American illegal invasions in different countries


If we wouldve simply CHECKED the backgroudns properly, but nooo, that racial profiling. Only racists and bigots do that... Im so happy far left is dying in most European countries.

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## KediKesenFare3

@MarkusS 

Everything started with the illegal US intervention in Iraq. Why don't you never criticize the US for its disastrous foreign policy in the Middle East? There would be no refugee in Europe without the US intervention in the Middle East!

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## MarkusS

EgyptianAmerican said:


> I understand you, is your party planning on deporting all the Muslims back to Muslim countries? Because then I agree, these idiots have been running from the Muslim world for too long. Content on not fixing problems and running to the west.
> 
> These educated Muslims need to help fellow Muslims.




Yes...Forza Italia wants mass deportations. 

We must understand one thing...we tried to accept. We tried to tolerate. It doesnt work. It ends only in sadness and misery.

I was on our christmas market here with my mother and my girl this evening. We had so much fun. Too imagine this. I dont know what i would do o think then. I feel so sorry for the victims and their friends and families.

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## EgyptianAmerican

Zaem said:


> Its not Islams fault, its humans fault. It doesnt matter what ideology, religion or skin colour, its just humans doing what they are good at.



Did I blame Islam?

About time these cowards come back and actually contribute instead of being dirty leeches content on feeding upon the hard work of Europeans.

I long for the golden age of Islam where every Muslim worked hard and contributed, where they actually fixed problems and not run away from them like a bunch of cowards.

If Europe wants to expel Muslims then so be it, I will not blame them. These idiots take European gifts of freedom to do as they wish and spit in their face.

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## Zaem

MarkusS said:


> Yes...Forza Italia wants mass deportations.
> 
> We must understand one thing...we tried to accept. We tried to tolerate. It doesnt work. It ends only in sadness and misery.
> 
> I was on our christmas market here with my mother and my girl this evening. We had so much fun. Too imagine this. I dont know what i would do o think then. I feel so sorry for the victims and their friends and families.


Still remember that this scum is only minority, not all muslim are like that, many come to Europe to honestly seek better life, but these scum ISIS only takes advantage of bad EU decisions.

We should not make this another Crusade, thats what ISIS wants, European to turn agains Islam so they can get more of them to join their ranks in "jihad"

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## Desertfalcon

Djinn said:


> Merkel is the leader and representative of her country and unless you are German. You have no right to criticize her policies. Her country, her rules.


You must be new to PDF.

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## Zaem

EgyptianAmerican said:


> Did I blame Islam?
> 
> About time these cowards come back and actually contribute instead of being dirty leeches content on feeding upon the hard work of Europeans.
> 
> I long for the golden age of Islam where every Muslim worked hard and contributed, where they actually fixed problems and not run away from them like a bunch of cowards.
> 
> If Europe wants to expel Muslims then so be it, I will not blame them. These idiots take European gifts of freedom to do as they wish and spit in their face.


I didnt mean that you said its Islams fault, I just stated that it isnt.


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## Bouhmeed

I say to muslims in europe isis won their plan is successful even if they loose mosul al bab raqqah go back to your country for your own safety, i read their book i was laughing then they won i am not laughing anymore


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## MarkusS

Zaem said:


> Still remember that this scum is only minority, not all muslim are like that, many come to Europe to honestly seek better life, but these scum ISIS only takes advantage of bad EU decisions.
> 
> We should not make this another Crusade, thats what ISIS wants, European to turn agains Islam so they can get more of them to join their ranks in "jihad"




I´m sorry. I cant follow this. Its impossible.


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## Zaem

MarkusS said:


> I´m sorry. I cant follow this. Its impossible.


And we shouldnt, but its always the loud minority that gets the attention.


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## MaMo

MarkusS said:


> I know we disagree on so many things...but try to understand me.
> 
> I´m a young man. I have a family. I have friends. All i want is peace and a future where i must not fear for my loved ones.
> 
> We both know who driver was. This did not happen in Europe before. And i want that this ends.


Maybe Europe should have thought of this when they joined the U.S. in a operation of 'mistakes' in Iraq and elsewhere in Middle East. Which resulted in millions of deaths, millions of immigrants, thousands of rapes, where women, men AND children can't go outside as they're sandwiched between Western tyranny and those tyranny created by the West: ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc.

Those people's blood boil equally much, and had you not considered their blood so cheap, you wouldn't lose your loved ones either. You shall reap as you sow. Rings a bell?


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## Bouhmeed

To muslims read this book to understund isis *management of savagery* they are winning, their evil plan is working


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## MarkusS

Zaem said:


> And we shouldnt, but its always the loud minority that gets the attention.




You understand me wrong.

I want that hard action is taken. That no mercy is shown.


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## Zaem

MaMo said:


> Maybe Europe should have thought of this when they joined the U.S. in a operation of 'mistakes' in Iraq and elsewhere in Middle East. Which resulted in millions of deaths, millions of immigrants, thousands of rapes, where women, men AND children can't go outside as they're sandwiched between Western tyranny and those tyranny created by the West: ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda, etc.
> 
> Those people's blood boil equally much, and had you not considered their blood so cheap, you wouldn't lose your loved ones either. You shall reap as you sow. Rings a bell?


Those terrorist organisation werent created by West, they were kept alive and still are by gulf arabs. 
And it was pretty much only US and UK who went to Iraq. You shouldnt make it look like who Western World was there.


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## Desertfalcon

News reports of the driver being arrested. Just coming in.


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## Djinn

Desertfalcon said:


> You must be new to PDF.


Being an old member on PDF means having "better understanding of International and National affairs"?


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## Proudpakistaniguy

KediKesenFare said:


> @MarkusS
> 
> Everything started with the illegal US intervention in Iraq. Why don't you never criticize the US for its disastrous foreign policy in the Middle East? There would be no refugee in Europe without the US intervention in the Middle East!


It remains the case that the majority of deaths from terrorism do not occur in the "West". When the Al Qaeda attacks against the United States in 2001 are excluded, only 0.5% of all deaths from terrorism have occurred in Western countries – European nations, United States, Canada and Australia – in the past fifteen years.


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## Zaem

MarkusS said:


> You understand me wrong.
> 
> I want that hard action is taken. That no mercy is shown.


I hope we would send Typhoons and show them what real terror is. Fucking savage dogs.


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## Sheikh Rauf

If we fire around us and wish no flare come close to us then we are fool.
Why it's peace in other countries. Europe union is involve with alot of things yet it's a sad incidence.
I wish no one kills innocent people for hate of those who they can't catch their enemy easily.
Israel sud stop supporting ISIS terrorists.
Every life is valuable.


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## Desertfalcon

Djinn said:


> Being an old member on PDF means having "better understanding of International and National affairs"?


No, it means that I can't believe anyone on PDF thinks it's not common or that it's inappropriate to criticise other country's leaders. It's a huge bulk of the posts here.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well terrible accident such incidents do unfortunately happen world wide , someone is angry and they drive into stuff happens all the time

Obviously prayers are with the victims on such tragic accident or event of interest

By the way when there were bombs dropping on Syria TV was showing music and concert for last 3 years

 wonder why they were showing Music and concert when people were dying in Syria

People only feel pain when it hits home , when it happens across someone else's neighbourhood , then it is all cool you can have your Superbowl , you can have your NBA championship
Chill and have a BBQ and I myself am part of community that focuses on entertainment and easy life , but these WAR happen in our life , yet the news and media censor it out !!! They don't force the leaders of the world tos top war .. and it is what it is 

Now what can we say some one became a lunatic and caused a tragic event

I mean if weapons were supplied to Terrorist organizations to destroy Syria obviously now someone is pissed off Syrian , who finally realised you fucked over his life

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## Gladius

How did Europe get so infected with liberalism?


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## Zaem

Proudpakistaniguy said:


> It remains the case that the majority of deaths from terrorism do not occur in the "West". When the Al Qaeda attacks against the United States in 2001 are excluded, only 0.5% of all deaths from terrorism have occurred in Western countries – European nations, United States, Canada and Australia – in the past fifteen years.


True, but these terror attacks are easily preventable, but our politicians are so idiots they dont dare to do anything other than love and cry on twitter.


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## Proudpakistaniguy

Zaem said:


> Those terrorist organisation werent created by West, they were kept alive and still are by gulf arabs.
> And it was pretty much only US and UK who went to Iraq. You shouldnt make it look like who Western World was there.


Really so US did not supported taliban/Osama freedom fighters againt soviet unions ?
You kill my enemy you are freedom fighter
You kill my people/soldier , you are terrorist


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## Hassan Guy

Europe isn't the only place where this is happening.

Unfortunately for Europe, its paying the price of US lead coalitions.

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## Zaem

Gladius said:


> How did Europe get so infected with liberalism?


Communism, it all started from there. It brought good things but mixed with liberalism and too many years of well being destroyed us. Thankfully revival is happening.


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## Proudpakistaniguy

@Zaem

[video]


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## Zaem

Hassan Guy said:


> Europe isn't the only place where this is happening.
> 
> Unfortunately for Europe, its paying the price of US lead coalitions.


This is because of Arab spring and Assads Syria, which has nothing to do with US Iraq adventure.


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## RayOfLight

sad to hear that.. 

thank god.. my trip to Germany postponed to next year.. but my travel is to koln though.. 

Hope EU work together and finish this terrorist scum..


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## Zaem

Proudpakistaniguy said:


> Really so US did not supported taliban/Osama freedom fighters againt soviet unions ?
> You kill my enemy you are freedom fighter
> You kill my people/soldier , you are terrorist


Yes it did, but it didnt orginally CREATE it, nor does it support it anymore. Even Pakistan would and propably is financing terrorist who are against India, but those same terrorist may bite you back.

That just normal politics


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## Bouhmeed

Zaem said:


> This is because of Arab spring and Assads Syria, which has nothing to do with US Iraq adventure.


No isis started in iraq it was called the islamic state in iraq i followed the war in iraq since the beginning


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## xenon54 out

This is truly a black Monday.

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## Zaem

RayOfLight said:


> sad to hear that..
> 
> thank god.. my trip to Germany postponed to next year.. but my travel is to koln though..
> 
> Hope EU work together and finish this terrorist scum..


Naah, EU will most likely hold #TogetherAgainstHate marched and witness this same event in near future. EU with its leftist leaders isnt going to do anyrhing.



Bouhmeed said:


> No isis started in iraq it was called the islamic state in iraq i followed the war in iraq since the beginning


I mean the uncontrolled mass refugee stream that brought ISIS cells to Europe.


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## Gladius

Zaem said:


> Naah, EU will most likely hold #TogetherAgainstHate marched and witness this same event in near future. EU with its leftist leaders isnt going to do anyrhing.


Are all European countries like this?


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## Bouhmeed

Zaem said:


> Naah, EU will most likely hold #TogetherAgainstHate marched and witness this same event in near future. EU with its leftist leaders isnt going to do anyrhing.
> 
> 
> I mean the uncontrolled mass refugee stream that brought ISIS cells to Europe.


Listen syrians lived under a dictatorship it's completely normal that their would be an uprising most of them wanted freedom and democracy but isis from iraq came and hijacked everything


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## Indus Pakistan

Gladius said:


> How did Europe get so infected with liberalism?


When people like the great Churchill and his generation died out. After having starved 3 million of them he said.

_"I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."_

Sir Winston Churchill.

*RIP to the dead in Germany.

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## Zaem

Gladius said:


> Are all European countries like this?


Pretty much. Now that UK left theres only France that could do something, but even they arent really getting involved.



Bouhmeed said:


> Listen syrians lived under a dictatorship it's completely normal that their would be an uprising most of them wanted freedom and democracy but isis from iraq came and hijacked everything


No, im not blaming Syrians, im blaming EU for letting everyone in EU without proper security checks



Kaptaan said:


> When people like the great Churchill and his generation died out. After having starved 3 million of them he said.
> 
> _"I hate Indians. They are a beastly people with a beastly religion."_
> 
> Sir Winston Churchill.
> 
> *RIP to the dead in Germany.


God blees Good Ol Churchill and his Cigars


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## Darth Vader

Just Saw the news whats happening ( all around us
turkey Now this where this world is Going , Humans need to understand that No matter what color , Country , religion , cast they are from if they hurt someone it means they are hurting another human simple


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## Indus Pakistan

Zaem said:


> This is because of Arab spring and Assads Syria, which has nothing to do with US Iraq adventure.


Idiot. That has everything to do with it. If what happens in Germany effects you in Finland and Italy you don't fvckin think that what happens in Iraq is not going spill into Syria? Are you class A 'tard?

The whole of Middle East has unrawelled since the invasion of Iraq. Worse Iraqi's are Arabs, Syrian's are Arabs. That is like invading Austria and thinking Germany is not going to get effected.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Look the ball was dropped when for last 3-5 years there was no cease fire and let call apples as apples

This game of weapon supply and fueling a war in Syria was happening way too long and still happens

If anyone is to blame it is the reluctance of the World leaders for being such pussies and letting war continue in Syria, there is a global chess game happpening in Syria

And if any civilian is caught in cross fire or even if any incidence happens it is nothing compared to war in Syria so suck it up

First it was Iraq 
Then it was Libya 
Then it was Syria 

These were all human cities and countries and if someone supplied weapons and encouraged war , they are real culprit and responsible for the escalation , take responsibility of your own shit

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## Djinn

Desertfalcon said:


> No, it means that I can't believe anyone on PDF thinks it's not common or that it's inappropriate to criticise other country's leaders. It's a huge bulk of the posts here.


Right after Trump got elected in the US, every one here started saying if that's what the US people wanted so be it, the rest of the world didn't have any say in it, despite his outlandish views about other countries and Islam. So if Merkel is the German leader, it's because of the German people not the French or the Italian...........While they can criticize, mock or even demonize her but it means nothing unless it actually come from those who are responsible for her designation. I hope I was able to carry my point across?


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## Bouhmeed

But anyway tyrants won isis won and poor arabs and muslims will live under dictatorship their whole existence


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## Zaem

Kaptaan said:


> Idiot. That has everything to do with it. If what happens in Germany effects you in Finland and Italy you don't fvckin think that what happens in Iraq is not going spill into Syria? Are you class A 'tard?
> 
> The whole of Middle East has unrawelled since the invasion of Iraq. Worse Iraqi's are Arabs, Syrian's are Arabs. That is like invading Austria and thinking Germany is not going to get effected.


So US invasion of Iraq started Arab Spring? Wasnt it good thing then? 

You guys just cant understand word im saying...
I meant that EUROPEAN TERRORIST ATTACKS are happening because of Syrian refugees flowing in EU freely. Im not saying that US Iraq invasion dont have anything to do with ISIS or other sht like that.



Darth Vader said:


> Just Saw the news whats happening ( all around us
> turkey Now this where this world is Going , Humans need to understand that No matter what color , Country , religion , cast they are from if they hurt someone it means they are hurting another human simple


People have killed each other always and sadly will continue killing others who belong to different "clan".


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## Vergennes

People literally justifying this are utterly disgusting.... which country did Germany "bomb" or "invade" ?

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## Hassan Guy

Vergennes said:


> People literally justifying this are utterly disgusting.... which country did Germany "bomb" or "invade" ?


I never thought a french man would say that

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Vergennes said:


> People literally justifying this are utterly disgusting.... which country did Germany "bomb" or "invade" ?



Not justifying but saying War brews hate , and hate results in death. Yes also ample SUPPLY of weapon to rouge parties (non government entities) does help with alot of destruction and death

But weapon supply has gone unchecked for last 3-4 years (right or wrong ? )
which ultimately lead to utter destruction of Syria

Why are Syrian refugee in Europe ? Becasue their home / towns were destroyed I think I am trying to make a direct link between war and , individual decision here but you can't overlook the supply of weapons in Syria and acts of lunacy

Obviously as humans the death or injury of any human is something concern us all but really there was no reason for destruction of Syria , there would be no Syrian Refugee in Europe and thus really no act of lunacy as one that happened today

Now why ? This driver of vehicle did this herrendous act we won't know but regret of course at the tragic loss of life , the same regret that was shown when Syria was destroyed

You know I live in "Safe zone" I see people enjoying life , concerts , sports events , chilling with family and dinners and parties ? I myself am guilty of enjoying what life offers, But at same time there was death roaming around in Syria did anyone care then ? or was it just issue no one was interested in (Here only pointing at stupid world leaders)

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## SMS Derfflinger

Someone should say, it`s could be still a car accident. It`s a truck from Poland and maybe the driver panicked and run away.



Gladius said:


> Germany can only blame itself for taking in refugees. Europe needs to wake up to the threat fast. On a side note, what are Merkel's chances of winning the next election?



Good, she will win.


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## Bouhmeed

SMS Derfflinger said:


> Someone should say, it`s could be still a car accident. It`s a truck from Poland and maybe the driver panicked and run away.


A polish car maybe a drunk man accident could be


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## MarkusS

Technogaianist said:


> With details so scant at the moment, let's lay off the discussions about refugees, immigrants, Muslims and minorities unless you can provide evidence to support their relevance to the incident in Berlin.
> 
> Not everything needs to be blamed on Muslims or minorities right off the bat you know, sometimes it's best to wait and see and gather more details.
> 
> Future unsupported or off-topic remarks on such will be removed. Prove it or don't post it.
> 
> Thanks.



with all due respect, that area cant be reached by accident. Its a pedestrian area with no streets acess...


----------



## Erl

RIP 
People are dying everywhere. So sad


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## Indus Pakistan

Zaem said:


> So US invasion of Iraq started Arab Spring? Wasnt it good thing then?


No the Arab Spring is rubbish. What spring. The word spring suggests positive vibe, a change for the better. Do you see anything that is happening as refreshing. I much prefer the fvuckin winter if this is what you call spring. If winter was Saddam in Iraq pulling fingernails of the mullahs, Assad in Syria throwing his rival in dark dungeons and Gaddafi in Libyia camped in the desert with his female body guards I prefer the winter anytime.

At least I did not have to put with being looked as terrorist or this migrant wave making headlines every second day. Yeh I wish we practiced "your country your rules" then.

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## Bouhmeed

It's snowing in europe right now am i wrong could it be something like this


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Unfortunately we are in a vicious cycle of hate , every event is connect to other. We can't view one act without evaluating the precursor events.

Unless people understand the consequences of war on region , city and country and its effect on surrounding countries we can't learn and move forward with lessons learned that war = worse imaginable thing

Me personally I had kind feeling for Germany for taking in refugee in dire need so obviously it is quite a tragic event , I hope the authorities do complete their investigation to find a cause.

But on global scale the Evil Immiting from outcome of war in Syria can't be denied

Just like after war in Afghanistan Pakistan faced Terrorism

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## Indus Pakistan

Vergennes said:


> People literally justifying this are utterly disgusting.... which country did Germany "bomb" or "invade" ?


These savages don't follow any rationale. Like fire has no logic, it just burns the same it is with these guys. This was a Ebola Virus in the desert between Iraq and Syria, now it has been racked up and chucked around. You see the results.

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## MarkusS

Technogaianist said:


> It's OK to continue discussing the incident, I just don't want people taking tangents or jumping to conclusions and then following them, such as attributing this to a specific group without evidence yet being available.
> 
> Also, looking at the video TheGuardian is showing in their live coverage, it does appear to be an area with road access.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crash-christmas-market-live
> 
> In any event the discussion isn't being closed, I'm just encouraging people not to continue discussing US or European involvement in Iraq or the greater Middle East, not jump to conclusions or pile onto Muslims or minorities without evidence or take the discussion in that direct as we don't yet know the details of this incident.
> 
> If new details emerge, then great, we can continue in whatever direction the investigation and coverage shows is plausible, but knee-jerk blaming of specific groups is how we get to unproductive discussions where multiple people end up with infractions or banned.
> 
> Call it being preemptive.
> 
> 
> 
> Nah, check the rolling coverage and video over at TheGuardian, it's not snowy.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crash-christmas-market-live
> 
> Criminality, negligence, accident... it's still too early to make any attributions.



please...we all know what happened.

The owners of the truck said he lost contact to the driver 16:00. 4 hours before this. Witness say he came without lights and smashed through the market, when it stopped he jumped out and ran away. They got him...

The Welt reporte police knew a attack was planned in berlin area on christmas market but had no further details. 

I have a brain... we all know what happened. And we all know what the solution must look like.

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## T-123456

MarkusS said:


> a truck smashed into the christmas market in Berlin...
> 
> one person died. That terrorist swine failed to kill more because his truck smashed into the christmas tree which stopped him
> 
> Thank you Merkel...you disgusting .... brought all this scum into Europe.
> 
> We need a clean up and we need it quick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont want hear this "human rights" nonsense anymore. We need to make hard decissions.
> 
> @waz @flamer84 @Vergennes
> 
> Hail Forza Italia!
> Hail Front National!
> Hail AfD!
> Hail UKIP!


You are a 'fvcking Nazi an i dont understand why they allow you to post such crap.
I hope for your sake that the guy was an Islamist cause if not,you are going to eat your words idiot.


*''Hail Forza Italia!
Hail Front National!
Hail AfD!
Hail UKIP!''*
Really he can cheer like that?
Shall i cheer for ISIS ?

@Technogaianist @waz ?

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## Indus Pakistan

Guy's my feeling is that this might be a accident caused through negligence. I know I am sticking my neck out but the truck was from Poland delivering steel. We have had some accidents in UK caused by reckless Polish truck drivers - one case involved a lorry going up the slip road in the wrong direction.


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## waz

To say that I am sad is an understatement. This is such a wonderful time of the year, people are happy and there is peace all around and then this. 
If it is terrorism, which looks increasingly likely, then the blame does lie with Germany's federal government and the chancellor herself. 
RIP to all the poor victims.

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## waz

Technogaianist said:


> As much as I disagree with @MarkusS on my things, and we're on the complete opposite end of the political spectrum, I respect his rights to his views and to be controversial without being offensive.
> 
> I saw what he wrote, considered it at the time, but didn't make any changes because I felt it wasn't my job to censor him for believing something I don't. Moderators don't do that, we deal with offensive or off-topic/flaming content, which I don't consider this to be.
> 
> I recognize the far-right is divisive and I don't agree with much, if anything that they stand for, but Markus isn't breaking any rules that I wouldn't by saying "_Hail Arbeiderpartiet_!!"
> 
> I understand, I really do and if @waz feels differently then I'll let him take action, but I believe in letting Markus express his political identity as he chooses, so long as he isn't being offensive about it or using it to incite violence or hatred, which in this case he isn't. I also make and recognize a distinction between ISIS and parties like Forza Italia, just like I make a distinction and recognize the difference between the Red Brigade and Arbeiderpartiet - Norway's Labour Party.
> 
> Waz, I'll leave the decision to you. It's almost midnight and I'm going to bed.



I'll leave it, and agree that his stance is political. They parties that people don't like but they can stand for elections and have not been linked to criminal activities.


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## Indika

MarkusS said:


> please...we all know what happened.
> 
> The owners of the truck said he lost contact to the driver 16:00. 4 hours before this. Witness say he came without lights and smashed through the market, when it stopped he jumped out and ran away. They got him...
> 
> The Welt reporte police knew a attack was planned in berlin area on christmas market but had no further details.
> 
> I have a brain... we all know what happened. And we all know what the solution must look like.


Calm down dude, let more info come through we will know whether it is terror attack or not. Most of the time when accidents take place ppl do run away from the place thats normal.

RIP to the dead. sympathies for the family, such incident during festival will leave painful memories for a very long time.


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## Indus Pakistan

Technogaianist said:


> As much as I disagree with @MarkusS on my things, and we're on the complete opposite end of the political spectrum, I respect his rights to his views and to be controversial without being offensive.
> 
> I saw what he wrote, considered it at the time, but didn't make any changes because I felt it wasn't my job to censor him for believing something I don't. Moderators don't do that, we deal with offensive or off-topic/flaming content, which I don't consider this to be.
> 
> I recognize the far-right is divisive and I don't agree with much, if anything that they stand for, but Markus isn't breaking any rules that I wouldn't by saying "_Hail Arbeiderpartiet_!!"
> 
> I understand, I really do and if @waz feels differently then I'll let him take action, but I believe in letting Markus express his political identity as he chooses, so long as he isn't being offensive about it or using it to incite violence or hatred, which in this case he isn't. I also make and recognize a distinction between ISIS and parties like Forza Italia, just like I make a distinction and recognize the difference between the Red Brigade and Arbeiderpartiet - Norway's Labour Party.
> 
> Waz, I'll leave the decision to you. It's almost midnight and I'm going to bed.


Well articulated.


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## Steve781

Their blood is on your hands Angela Merkel.

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## Kabira

No sign of driver, we don't know yet but could be ISIS.


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## Vassnti

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Well terrible accident such incidents do unfortunately happen world wide , someone is angry and they drive into stuff happens all the time
> 
> Obviously prayers are with the victims on such tragic accident or event of interest
> 
> By the way when there were bombs dropping on Syria TV was showing music and concert for last 3 years
> 
> wonder why they were showing Music and concert when people were dying in Syria
> 
> People only feel pain when it hits home , when it happens across someone else's neighbourhood , then it is all cool you can have your Superbowl , you can have your NBA championship
> Chill and have a BBQ and I myself am part of community that focuses on entertainment and easy life , but these WAR happen in our life , yet the news and media censor it out !!! They don't force the leaders of the world tos top war .. and it is what it is
> 
> Now what can we say some one became a lunatic and caused a tragic event
> 
> I mean if weapons were supplied to Terrorist organizations to destroy Syria obviously now someone is pissed off Syrian , who finally realised you fucked over his life



and who is the YOU ?

Did the children Christmas shopping ship weapons to Syria?
Did they attend the superbowl?
Were they broadcasting music?

There is no by the way or but your country did this so its fair.
The innocent have once again been slaughtered
We should weep for them as we did for the children of Pehawar.

Politics is for another page and another day


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## Oublious

If this was a terror attack why would the driver stop and run away? The driver is working 15 years for the company, drunk driver is the result.

Update 

The dead co driver is a Polish guy...


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## Surenas

Suspect arrested is reportedly a Pakistani:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810980559866494976


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## Bouhmeed

This story is weird the guy doing the attack hijacked a truck ?


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## Penguin

Police said they could not confirm whether it was a deliberate attack or an accident. They said the truck had a runup of about 80 metres before the crash.They said the vehicle had a Polish registration and belonged to a Polish delivery company. According to the firm, the truck left Poland on Monday afternoon, heading to Berlin. The company said it lost touch with the driver at 4pm local time.
German police said one person was found dead in the lorry, having died of injuries sustained in the crash, while a suspect was arrested about 100 metres away in the Tiergarten. Police said they could not confirm whether that person was the driver.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crashes-into-christmas-market

Co-driver Polish national, suspected driver's nationality unclear. 
The fate of the driver of the truck was not immediately clear, with Bild newspaper said he was on the run.
Meanwhile German police have arrested a "suspicious person" believed to be the driver.
The lorry belongs to a Polish firm based in the northern town of Gryfino, just a stone's throw from the German border.
The company owner said the vehicle involved in the incident was new and only had about 30,000 kilometres on the clock. 
German police said that the dead passenger in the truck's passenger seat was Polish, the nationality of the suspected driver is still unclear.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/lorry-ploughs-crowd-christmas-market-berlin/

German police have detained the suspected driver. A police spokesperson confirmed the arrest and said the truck’s co-driver died during the crash.
http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/19/...wd-at-a-christmas-market-in-berlin-one-person

the driver of the truck was at large immediately following the suspected attack but German police have reported that one suspect has been arrested and that he is suspected of having been the driver of the truck. No information about the suspect has yet been released. Police have confirmed that a passenger in the truck was killed.
http://www.spiegel.de/international...in-christmas-market-kills-nine-a-1126642.html


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## Mootaz-khelifi

i read a news in arabic say that it's not confired that it it terror or not


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## foxtrot1

is this true? ae ki ho gaya 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810985273286946816

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810984599744561153


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## Baybars Han

So it's a Polish radical christian terrorist


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## Abingdonboy

Vergennes said:


> People literally justifying this are utterly disgusting.... which country did Germany "bomb" or "invade" ?


The typical despicable induviduals are out to justfiy these atrocities.

What do you expect from these kinds of people? To some terrorism is a fair game.

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## Bouhmeed

Penguin said:


> Police said they could not confirm whether it was a deliberate attack or an accident. They said the truck had a runup of about 80 metres before the crash.They said the vehicle had a Polish registration and belonged to a Polish delivery company. According to the firm, the truck left Poland on Monday afternoon, heading to Berlin. The company said it lost touch with the driver at 4pm local time.
> German police said one person was found dead in the lorry, having died of injuries sustained in the crash, while a suspect was arrested about 100 metres away in the Tiergarten. Police said they could not confirm whether that person was the driver.
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crashes-into-christmas-market
> 
> Co-driver Polish national, suspected driver's nationality unclear.
> The fate of the driver of the truck was not immediately clear, with Bild newspaper said he was on the run.
> Meanwhile German police have arrested a "suspicious person" believed to be the driver.
> The lorry belongs to a Polish firm based in the northern town of Gryfino, just a stone's throw from the German border.
> The company owner said the vehicle involved in the incident was new and only had about 30,000 kilometres on the clock.
> German police said that the dead passenger in the truck's passenger seat was Polish, the nationality of the suspected driver is still unclear.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/lorry-ploughs-crowd-christmas-market-berlin/
> 
> German police have detained the suspected driver. A police spokesperson confirmed the arrest and said the truck’s co-driver died during the crash.
> http://www.euronews.com/2016/12/19/...wd-at-a-christmas-market-in-berlin-one-person
> 
> the driver of the truck was at large immediately following the suspected attack but German police have reported that one suspect has been arrested and that he is suspected of having been the driver of the truck. No information about the suspect has yet been released. Police have confirmed that a passenger in the truck was killed.
> http://www.spiegel.de/international...in-christmas-market-kills-nine-a-1126642.html


So the two drivers where polish nationals one died of the crash the other fled it start to look like an accident


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## Clutch

MarkusS said:


> What do you not understand? It was Merkel who allowed 900.000 3rd. worlders wiith out documents into europe. Terrorists, criminals and rapists, primitives and savages. Our security goes down the toilet. Women cant go out alone. You must fear to get crushed from a truck when you go on a christmas market.
> 
> None of this would have happened when this disgusting Merkel would have locked down as all others demanded from day one.
> 
> Evry single victim is her responsibility.



Europe needs to seriously take some action to remove these " refugees". But i seriously doubt that any action would be taken. 

Europeans just don't get it. Pakistan has suffered for a long time and has just recently started to eliminate these extremists. You need to take military action within your cities and *shut your borders! *


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## Cherokee

Baybars Han said:


> So it's a Polish radical christian terrorist



Nope as far as news report goes its a jihadi islamist from either Pakistan or Afghanistan .

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...or-attack-suspect-identity-pakistan-name-isis


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## Abingdonboy

MarkusS said:


> please...we all know what happened.
> 
> The owners of the truck said he lost contact to the driver 16:00. 4 hours before this. Witness say he came without lights and smashed through the market, when it stopped he jumped out and ran away. They got him...
> 
> The Welt reporte police knew a attack was planned in berlin area on christmas market but had no further details.
> 
> I have a brain... we all know what happened. And we all know what the solution must look like.


The media (and certain groups) are SO desperetly trying to project this as a possible accident and refrain from saying what we ALL know. Everytime there is a terror attack we know who is responsible but the media/establishment tries ever so hard to intially obfuscate and muddy the waters.

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## Mamluk

Cherokee said:


> Nope as far as news report goes its a jihadi islamist from either Pakistan or Afghanistan .
> 
> http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...or-attack-suspect-identity-pakistan-name-isis



Just propaganda.

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## Desertfalcon

Bouhmeed said:


> So the two drivers where polish nationals one died of the crash the other fled it start to look like an accident


Multiple German news sources are now reporting the driver to be Pakistani. That is what is on the news here in the USA.

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## Clutch

Cherokee said:


> Nope as far as news report goes its a jihadi islamist from either Pakistan or Afghanistan .
> 
> http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...or-attack-suspect-identity-pakistan-name-isis



No... that's not what the news is saying now...


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## Cherokee

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> Just propaganda.



Yeah propaganda against Pakistan to destroy its good name in Germany . Talk some sense for once .

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## hussain0216

It happens 

Polish are known to be heavy drinkers, it was Christmas 

lesson to be learnt here

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## foxtrot1

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> Just propaganda.



what will you call it if he happens to be actually from pak? Jazbat e junoon?

What is a propaganda, explain it's definition! Everything happens to be a propaganda for you people. Even your existence is a british propaganda I can say!


and there it's confirmed now. 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810988379051610112

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## Desert Fox

@Kaptaan would explain this attack as being the result of racism.


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## Bouhmeed

Okey let's connect the dots the cousin of the driver said the truck must have been highjacked and he is polish, the two drivers where polish nationals one of them dead in the accident => the other guy who fled is superman or there was no two drivers in the first place


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## Desertfalcon

foxtrot1 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810988379051610112



What was the one in Switzerland?


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## Bouhmeed

Desertfalcon said:


> What was the one in Switzerland?


Three muslims shot probably dead but hey they are muslims who cares


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## foxtrot1

Desertfalcon said:


> What was the one in Switzerland?



some gun shots..near islamic centre. must be a sectarian..


----------



## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> The media (and certain groups) are SO desperetly trying to project this as a possible accident and refrain from saying what we ALL know. Everytime there is a terror attack we know who is responsible but the media/establishment tries ever so hard to intially obfuscate and muddy the waters.



ISIS already claimed the attack. The fact that the government and police are doing their best to portray an obvious terrorist attack as something else will further add to the resentment the European people have for their leaders.

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## Mamluk

Desertfalcon said:


> What was the one in Switzerland?



Shooting at Muslims outside Mosque.


----------



## Bouhmeed

foxtrot1 said:


> some gun shots..near islamic centre. must be a sectarian..


No it was a hate crime but it will not trend because we don't want to add fuel to the fire

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## foxtrot1

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> That's the meaning of life for Indians. The sole purpose of their existence.


washington times is not an Indian news teller 

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810984686893682688


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## foxtrot1

Cherokee said:


> You are more stupid than I thought . Oh I get it your New Conspiracy theory will be an Indian agent from RAW went to Germany killed the polish driver and drove the truck through Christmas Market and on arrest said he was Pakistani . All that to destroy shining green name of Pakistan in Europe . Take some medications timely dude .



and he is arguing with us because somewhere in the western part of the world a lot of news handle says it was a Pakistani. 

They do not have guts to say this to west. Or argue with them.

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## Penguin

Bouhmeed said:


> So the two drivers where polish nationals one died of the crash the other fled it start to look like an accident


suspected driver's nationality unclear


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## Desertfalcon

Bouhmeed said:


> Three muslims shot probably dead but hey they are muslims who cares


They are not dead and apparently, the new American president cares. His tweet was what I was asking about.


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## Desert Fox

hussain0216 said:


> It happens
> 
> Polish are known to be heavy drinkers, it was Christmas
> 
> lesson to be learnt here



Yep. It happens. It was just a coincidence that this "accident" took place during Christmas shopping season and ISIS claimed responsibility, similar to the Nice "terrorist attack" which was really an "accident" also involving drunk Polish men.

Just like all of the previous "terrorist attacks" were due to drunk Polish truck drivers, even the ones in Pakistan and other Muslim countries. All caused by Polish men.

Muslims never do anything wrong. Muslims are God's angels.

@Vergennes @vostok @flamer84

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## Zee-shaun

More and more civilians are paying for the wrong doings and filed foreign policies of the west. No one is safe anymore 

RIP

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## Abingdonboy

Desert Fox said:


> ISIS already claimed the attack. The fact that the government and police are doing their best to portray an obvious terrorist attack as something else will further add to the resentment the European people have for their leaders.


BREXIT and Trump's victory have shown the dwindling patience the silent majority have for these shenanigans. The current generation Western leaders are truly ushering a dark age for their countries/civilisaton.

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## Cherokee

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> No one said that, it's just propaganda your type likes to masturbate to.



https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...uechtling-nach-Deutschland-gekommen-sein.html


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## AUz

German police has declared it an accident!!!

To all bigots a big f*ck you!

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## foxtrot1

Penguin said:


> suspected driver's nationality unclear




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810984686893682688
still unclear?


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## Abingdonboy

Desert Fox said:


> Yep. It happens. It was just a coincidence that this "accident" took place during Christmas shopping season and ISIS claimed responsibility, similar to the Nice "terrorist attack" which was really an "accident" also involving drunk Polish men.
> 
> Just like all of the previous "terrorist attacks" were due to drunk Polish truck drivers, even the ones in Pakistan and other Muslim countries. All caused by Polish men.
> 
> Muslims never do anything wrong. Muslims are God's angels.
> 
> @Vergennes @vostok @flamer84


The Nice attack just happened to occur on Bastille day and this attack just happened to occur at a _*Christmas*_ market, as simple as that, stop trying to read too much into it. Nothing to see here.

At what point do we say enough? These animals are attacking everything that makes the West the West, its culture, its freedoms, its relgious festivals, its innocents but the establishment will continue to lie and stick their heads in the sand hoping we are too stupid to connect the dots.



AUz said:


> German police has declared it an accident!!!
> 
> To all bigots a big f*ck you!


Really? 

Reported by BBC 6 minuets ago:
*
German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere says there are now many signs that the crash of a lorry into the Christmas market was an attack. "I don't want to use the word 'attack' yet, although there are many things pointing to one," he tells public television.*



why are you so defensive?

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## foxtrot1

AUz said:


> German police has declared it an accident!!!
> 
> To all bigots a big f*ck you!



Innenminister de Maizière: Vieles spricht für Anschlag
*anschlag means attack, and minister says possibility of it cannot be ruled out.*
source: spiegel

It was a stolen truck

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810993609784852484


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## gangsta_rap

I love how @MarkusS was taking so much pleasure out of this incident. Sicko.

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## Abingdonboy

AUz said:


> German police has declared it an accident!!!
> 
> To all bigots a big f*ck you!


Yeah, ISIS now claim responsibility for all road traffic accidents


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810994224279777282
And the White house issues statements on them:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810994186543648768

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## Bouhmeed

Abingdonboy said:


> Yeah, ISIS now claim responsibility for all road traffic accidents
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810994224279777282
> And the White house issues statements on them:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810994186543648768


Isis will claim anything don't you worry


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## Abingdonboy

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810996721106886656

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## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> The Nice attack just happened to occur on Bastille day and this attack just happened to occur at a _*Christmas*_ market, as simple as that, stop trying to read too much into it. Nothing to see here.



Exactly man. Muslims never do anything bad. It's always those darn drunk Polish truck drivers who are behind every "terrorist attack" which are really in fact "accidents" that coincidentally take place on or around major holidays. 

Even though ISIS just claimed this attack, ISIS is in fact a secret group of drunk Polish truck drivers who just happen to speak Arabic really well. Isn't that right @Kaptaan ?




Abingdonboy said:


> At what point do we say enough? These animals are attacking everything that makes the West the West, its culture, its freedoms, its relgious festivals, its innocents but the establishment will continue to lie and stick their heads in the sand hoping we are too stupid to connect the dots.


Something tells me this is all intentional. One would have to have an IQ of a rat to not realize that allowing in millions of illiterate military age men from hot beds of terrorism and war zones won't wreak havoc on the societies taking them in.

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## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> The Nice attack just happened to occur on Bastille day and this attack just happened to occur at a _*Christmas*_ market, as simple as that, stop trying to read too much into it. Nothing to see here.



Exactly man. Muslims never do anything bad. It's always those darn drunk Polish truck drivers who are behind every "terrorist attack" which are really in fact "accidents" that coincidentally take place on or around major holidays. 

Even though ISIS just claimed this attack, ISIS is in fact a secret group of drunk Polish truck drivers who just happen to speak Arabic really well. Isn't that right @Kaptaan ?




Abingdonboy said:


> At what point do we say enough? These animals are attacking everything that makes the West the West, its culture, its freedoms, its relgious festivals, its innocents but the establishment will continue to lie and stick their heads in the sand hoping we are too stupid to connect the dots.


Something tells me this is all intentional. One would have to have an IQ of a rat to not realize that allowing in millions of illiterate military age men from hot beds of terrorism and war zones won't wreak havoc on the societies taking them in.

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## Indus Pakistan

I tell you guy's. I can make peace with racists, with far right Nazis, with Jews, with ultra Orthodox Jews but I Indian's. Nah. I don't care if they are Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Untouchables, Dalits, Brahmins the whole lot are sediment of thre world. This disgusting country has nothing redeaming whatsoever. Nothing. I had some respect for Sikhs but that is slowly dissipating as well.

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## Desert Fox



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## Indus Pakistan

@DesertFox You are aware I am the arch nemesis of the Islamists. So stop conflating with with the ISIS and rest of the ilk. Everybody here knows I am a staunch secularist.

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## VEVAK

Condolences to our German & Russian friends here our harts are with you!!!!!!!!!!
ISIS needs to be wiped out!!!!!!! I hope Germany much like Iran & Russia realize that from the beginning the main problem in Syria was Terrorism!!!!!!!!! Deluded facts just to overthrow the Assad government has now armed and further radicalized a bunch of sick and demented people!


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## Bouhmeed

The truck driver who did this was polish and he was found dead inside the cab after the crash, and people are saying the guy who did this killed the polish man left him inside in the truck then drove into people at 40 mph and find a way out after the crash then he was arrested !!! this story is weird


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## Abingdonboy

Baybars Han said:


> What about the Indians that terrorise people for eating beef? I think you should worry more about India than your former masters. Lose the slave mentality, your Indian not British.


Deflect, deflect, deflect- the go to tactic for you and your ilk. 

Do tell me how India comes into all of this (other than in your binary world view).



Bouhmeed said:


> The truck driver who did this was polish and he was found dead inside the cab after the crash


Clutching to straws much? It has all but been confirmed he was kidnapped by the terrorist to use his truck.

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## Pandora

Hassan Guy said:


> ?



What do you want to know? He is a psycopath so just leave him to his racist self. It is typical of these dumb fucks to first screw a country by their arrogance then call them savages.


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## Indus Pakistan

foxtrot1 said:


> They will deny he was a Pakistani and call it stateless because he is a refugee.


They won't. Even if he is stateless his origins can be ascertained. Place of origin and nationality are not always inclusive. Even if a person has no nationality we can guess his origin with certain 99% accuracy.


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## foxtrot1

Kaptaan said:


> I won't not give the steam of my piss let alone any respect to a Indian.



because you do not have self respect that you already showed in your post. Any how you are here to speak for tangos?
First you came up with some post related with race talking things about UK, then later you ended up speaking something about India. Now you are Misbehaving and abusing.. abey.. who the hell on earth you are?? Not even a small dot ..
remain on topic!!



Kaptaan said:


> They won't. Even if he is stateless his origins can be ascertained. Place of origin and nationality are not always inclusive. Even if a person has no nationality we can guess his origin with certain 99% accuracy.



Then what made Pakistani Govt deny that Kasab, one of the tangos during 26/11 was not a Pakistani haha!! Later admitted he was.

You actually did not understand my previous post

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## viraat_85

Kaptaan said:


> I tell you guy's. I can make peace with racists, with far right Nazis, with Jews, with ultra Orthodox Jews but I Indian's. Nah. I don't care if they are Hindu, Sikh, Muslim, Untouchables, Dalits, Brahmins the whole lot are sediment of thre world.



It matters not what you think. You are powerless. With right wing rising in the West, brace for it! Good days are coming.

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## Pandora

@Topic

Just another sad day to be honest.


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## Indus Pakistan

smuhs1 said:


> What do you want to know? He is a psycopath so just leave him to his racist self. It is typical of these dumb fucks to first screw a country by their arrogance then call them savages.


His oright. His got his country to think about, Maybe he gets carried away but it is these Indian's. They just do relish on this like vultures. Can you feel them swooping around like vultures ....

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## Abingdonboy

Desert Fox said:


> View attachment 361688




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811002112083640321
And still she will be elected again and again, it's like the Europeans have a death wish.

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## Indus Pakistan

viraat_85 said:


> With right wing rising in the West, brace for it! Good days are coming.


Oh. What makes you think I am scared of the right. I have hung around all sort kid. Before they get me they will cull you I can ensure you on that.

I have been to India central - Leicester with it's tiny Patels, Saris, ugly as sin trudging along. If extreme right take over Leicester which I believe was declared the first white minority city will get cleansed as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Slough-Birmingham-set-follow-end-decade.html

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## foxtrot1

Abingdonboy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811002112083640321
> And still she will be elected again and again, it's like the Europeans have a death wish.



This time not possible unless she gets support of SPD which is not going to happen. But US factor can make her win. US knows how to do it. But again you have Mr Trump what would he want?


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## yolo2016

Why not learn from the Chinese in how to handle Islamic terror and the community?

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## Abingdonboy

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=berlin christmas&src=tyah


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## Desert Fox

Kaptaan said:


> @DesertFox You are aware I am the arch nemesis of the Islamists. So stop conflating with with the ISIS and rest of the ilk. Everybody here knows I am a staunch secularist.



Your interests seem to coincide with those of Islamists. If you really opposed Islamists you would also oppose all of the suicidal and self destructive policies of the "Liberal" political establishment that has allowed Islamists a free pass to flourish at the expense of the native European populace who are increasingly being pushed towards the right wing.

Instead your praise the Liberal system as if it is the greatest thing and can do no error and any criticism of it is a grave sin.


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## foxtrot1

Most probably they know the driver's nationality. But may or may not disclose so early.


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## hussain0216

viraat_85 said:


> It matters not what you think. You are powerless. With right wing rising in the West, brace for it! Good days are coming.



Whats your black *** going to be doing as the right wing rises?



Desert Fox said:


> Your interests seem to coincide with those of Islamists. If you really opposed Islamists you would also oppose all of the suicidal and self destructive policies of the "Liberal" political establishment that has allowed Islamists a free pass to flourish at the expense of the native European populace who are increasingly being pushed towards the right wing.
> 
> Instead your praise the Liberal system as if it is the greatest thing and can do no error and any criticism of it is a grave sin.



Liberal system is what has made the west great, the coming diversion from that system will slowly destroy and cut the very rights and ideals people have fought for at a time when Europe especially is sinking


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## Indus Pakistan

Desert Fox said:


> Instead your praise the Liberal system as if it is the greatest thing and can do no error and any criticism of it is a grave sin.


When I say liberal I mean by the standards of the mullahs. Actually I voted UKIP and for Brexit. I certainly don't want millions of refugees or open doors. UKIP policy was spot on and is very fair that it cuts out all immigrants.

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## Bouhmeed

So we have an accident after the crash the driver die and the blame is on someone else


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## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811002112083640321
> And still she will be elected again and again, it's like the Europeans have a death wish.



I doubt she will be elected again. Things aren't the way they used to be. 

I personally know so many people who were Liberals/leftists and voted left in the past but ever since they were exposed to reality they are perhaps one of the most staunch right wingers I have ever known.


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## foxtrot1

''Auf einem Weihnachtsmarkt in der Nähe der Berliner Gedächtniskirche ist es am Montagabend gegen 20 Uhr womöglich zu einem Anschlag gekommen'' Source: Spiegel

normally spiegel is also CDU funded but it still pointing towards attack.


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## Indus Pakistan

And to any Germans here - I entirely emapthize with your loss. I hope the guy is not a Muslim but if he is please fry him. Thank you.

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## hussain0216

Kaptaan said:


> Either buy ton of whitening cream - although most of these Indian I have seen even the acid would get defeated or become get a job as boot licker. I quoted Sir Winston Churchill said about Indians?
> 
> If I met him within the hour I know we would be mates. You can think what you want. It's the the indian's I can't handle.





Desert Fox said:


> So now we have a known PDF Islamist praising the liberal system?
> 
> Tell me Mr. Mullah, since when did Liberalism become great for you? Oh right, since it let you promote your bigotry in the West.
> 
> As soon as this same Liberalism tells your sister, mother, or daughter to date a kafir and indulge in Zina then it becomes evil and your lot declares Jihad  .
> 
> If you're gonna praise liberalism, them better be ready to accept it for all it's good and bad, not just cherry pick what you want.



Buddy I can personally disagree with something whilst at the same time accepting its merits

For all its faults it has been the basis of creating largely just societies in the west everything from the civil rights movement to the female emancipation and workers and human rights and it has encouraged free thinking with a open mind that has been one of the main catalysts to the development of much of the advancements both social and economic in in last 40 years.

Europe does not have the power of the past and a lurch yo the right towards populist parties with no plan on how to run successful states not only will it curtail the advancements and rights that have been built up but it wont occur without repercussions from the rest of the world


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## Abingdonboy

Desert Fox said:


> I doubt she will be elected again. Things aren't the way they used to be.
> 
> I personally know so many people who were Liberals/leftists and voted left in the past but ever since they were exposed to reality they are perhaps one of the most staunch right wingers I have ever known.


Ah, "red pilled" as some would say.

I'm still skeptical, the ammount of liberals/leftists waking up to reality is still yet to reach critical mass, many are still living in denial. It will take another few years such as this to open their eyes and by then the damage will already have been done (IMO it had been done a while back but recent events have acted like a catalyst). The new "right wing" renaissance will be a flash in the pan, a final meek stand but not much else, Trump isn't half the man his followers want him to be.


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## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> She has no children, what does she car if she is condemning the future of her nation to hell?



She was a communist in the past (correct me if I'm wrong). Most communists are internationalists and don't believe in borders or (sovereign) nation states. Perhaps that is where her hatred of her own nation comes from (as well as from the Holocaust guilt syndrome).

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## BD_India_friend

Apparently German intelligence officials had been warned of such attacks weeks before by CIA


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## BD_India_friend

There are unconfirmed reports that the man arrested on suspicion of hijacking the truck is Chechen. The passenger found dead inside the lorry is Polish and believed to be the truck's original driver


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## Desert Fox

Abingdonboy said:


> Ah, "red pilled" as some would say.
> 
> I'm still skeptical, the ammount of liberals/leftists waking up to reality is still yet to reach critical mass, many are still living in denial. It will take another few years such as this to open their eyes and by then the damage will already have been done (IMO it had been done a while back but recent events have acted like a catalyst). The new "right wing" renaissance will be a flash in the pan, a final meek stand but not much else, Trump isn't half the man his followers want him to be.



True, Trump isn't half the man his supporters want him to be, but he is a step towards that direction. Think about it, the things he said about minorities and religious groups is enough to get one arrested in certain countries under "hate speech" laws. Four years ago it was unthinkable that someone running for the highest political office in the most powerful country in the world would say things you would expect to find on Storm Front or Reditt and still get elected into office. Things will only get more and more radical from here on wards.

Also, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss the rising dissent. Especially in Europe with a powerful and resurgent neighbor like Russia which today is a bastion of traditionalism and Nationalism, the complete polar opposite of what Europe and the West are today. Europe's elites might hate Russia but the common Europeaner and Amerikaner sympathize with Russia. Elites makeup the minority while the commoner is the majority. If SHTF then I can assure you Russia will be the key factor in a nationalist victory in Europe. The US will be able to do very little against the Russians considering the anti-war sentiments among the American populace and most gun totting Americans are conservatives/Patriots who no longer trust the Liberal establishment and are not willing to fight it's wars.


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## foxtrot1

Desert Fox said:


> but the common Europeaner and Amerikaner sympathize with Russia. Elites makeup the minority while the commoner is the majority.



This is a wrong assessment.


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## BD_India_friend

Bouhmeed said:


> So we have an accident after the crash the driver die and the blame is on someone else


The original Polish driver was killed. The truck is believed to have been hijacked in Poland. The police have arrested a man for fleeing from the site. They are taking him to be the hijacker. There are unconfirmed reports that he is a Chechen.


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## Bouhmeed

BD_patriot said:


> The original Polish driver was killed. The truck is believed to have been hijacked in Poland. The police have arrested a man for fleeing from the site. They are taking him to be the hijacker. There are unconfirmed reports that he is a Chechen.


Killed or found dead there is no confirmation that he was killed, any muslim would flee the area i would because hearing people talking about a terrorist attack people may attack me or i maybe arrested for no reason


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## KediKesenFare3

foxtrot1 said:


> ''Auf einem Weihnachtsmarkt in der Nähe der Berliner Gedächtniskirche ist es am Montagabend gegen 20 Uhr womöglich zu einem Anschlag gekommen'' Source: Spiegel
> 
> normally spiegel is also CDU funded but it still pointing towards attack.



Spiegel is CDU funded? Really?

You guys certainly don't understand the German mentality. If Germany is under attack, even more Germans are going to vote for Merkel for sure. Keine Experimente at this moment!


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## Bouhmeed

Witnesses described the driver of the lorry as “Eastern European” in appearance.
Ariel Zurawski, the owner of the vehicle, told Polish television his cousin had initially been driving the truck, but he believed it had been hijacked.

“I can say, hand on heart, that the man who drove into those people in the centre of Berlin was not my driver,” Mr Zurawksi said.

“This is my cousin. I’ve known him since birth. I have faith in him, this is not the man I know, they have done something to him.” He said he believed the dead man found inside the cab of the lorry was his cousin.

So his cousin is drunk or more probably slept due to fatigue while driving then made an accident died and the cousin want to blame it on others


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## BD_India_friend

Bouhmeed said:


> Killed or found dead there is no confirmation that he was killed, any muslim would flee the area i would because hearing people talking about a terrorist attack people may attack me or i maybe arrested for no reason


The original Polish truck driver was SHOT DEAD by the hijacker of the truck. There are reports coming in that the hijacker is an Afghan/Pakistani "refugee",not a Chechen, who arrived in Germany on Feb 2016. He tried to flee but was arrested in Tiergarten


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## Bouhmeed

BD_patriot said:


> The original Polish truck driver was SHOT DEAD by the hijacker of the truck. There are reports coming in that the hijacker is an Afghan/Pakistani "refugee",not a Chechen, who arrived in Germany on Feb 2016. He tried to flee but was arrested in Tiergarten


Where is the report that said he was shot i read that they found him dead inside the truck after a crash well it make sense to find him dead


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## BD_India_friend

Bouhmeed said:


> Where is the report that said he was shot i read that they found him dead inside the truck after a crash well it make sense to find him dead


There is news report in *newobserveronline* under the heading *"Berlin truck terror: Refugee"* which claims that the Polish driver was shot dead by the hijacker. And I don't think the Polish driver would drive his own truck into a Christmas market. Makes no sense. His truck was definitely hijacked by terrorist






Philip Oltermann

In the hours after the tragedy, police stated repeatedly that they did not yet know whether it had been a tragic accident or a sinister attack. A group of stallholders on the southern side of the market were convinced they had heard police say the truck’s driver had simply fallen asleep at the wheel. How could anyone want to deliberate crash a truck into such a scene of peace?

But as midnight drew near and more details emerged in the aftermath of the crash – with the person thought to be the driver arrested after reportedly fleeing the scene into nearby Tiergarten – it became harder and harder to avoid seeing a motive behind Monday night’s deadly rampage.

Germany’s interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, said: “I do not want to use the word the terrorism yet. But many things point in that direction.”





Police investigators inspect the truck that ploughed through a Berlin Christmas market. Photograph: Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters

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## BD_India_friend

Only solution is strict monitoring and screening of refugees. There are some jihadis among them


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## Bouhmeed

BD_patriot said:


> There is news report in *newobserveronline* under the heading *"Berlin truck terror: Refugee"* which claims that the Polish driver was shot dead by the hijacker. And I don't think the Polish driver would drive his own truck into a Christmas market. Makes no sense. His truck was definitely hijacked by terrorist
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Philip Oltermann
> 
> In the hours after the tragedy, police stated repeatedly that they did not yet know whether it had been a tragic accident or a sinister attack. A group of stallholders on the southern side of the market were convinced they had heard police say the truck’s driver had simply fallen asleep at the wheel. How could anyone want to deliberate crash a truck into such a scene of peace?
> 
> But as midnight drew near and more details emerged in the aftermath of the crash – with the person thought to be the driver arrested after reportedly fleeing the scene into nearby Tiergarten – it became harder and harder to avoid seeing a motive behind Monday night’s deadly rampage.
> 
> Germany’s interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, said: “I do not want to use the word the terrorism yet. But many things point in that direction.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police investigators inspect the truck that ploughed through a Berlin Christmas market. Photograph: Fabrizio Bensch/Reuters


Still there is no report from the police that he has been shot you have no proof it's a claim because the cousin of the driver said no i don't believe my cousin would do it and he said also must be hijacking no not my cousin


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## Place Of Space

It says the isis lack manpower resources, they want their refugee brothers back home to join in their group.


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## BD_India_friend

passingthrough said:


> Cant only target refugees. Many of the past attacks were carried out by long term residents , like the boston bombing, paris attack, london bombings.
> 
> How to physically stop these attacks ? Like ban all heavy traffic in cities during festive season. Not really practical.


Intelligence agencies of respective European countries have to ensure that extremist groups don't extend their networks into Muslim areas further and brainwash them. But am afraid isis and their offshoots have already made gained some ground in places like molenbeek. Residents there are under strict observation by intelligence agencies.

European countries should let the Muslim immigrant population integrate and provide them job opportunities. unemployed 2nd generation muslim immigrant youths are target of recruitment of terrorist groups because they are vulnerable to brainwash. they have to be brought from fringes of society to mainstream and assimilated into european culture


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Here is an alternate view ,

Polish driver decides to drive in to market , dies in process, police comes , tries to rationalize , finds a brown guy pick up him checks his documenation , illegal refugee. Decides he was the driver of Truk

If you are brown , don't ve walking around when Truck smashes into people , you will be prime suspect

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2016/1...k-came-to-germany-as-refugee-reports-say.html

Der Tagesspiegel reported that the suspect, whom the paper said was Afghan or Pakistani, was known to police for multiple minor offenses, but had not made the radar of anti-terror authorities.

Now how often we have heard that Afghan was using forged identity as Pakistani

Last time I heard , Pakistanis never ask for Refugee status , it is normally Afghani folks who seek refugee claim , as Pakistan itself has no conflict

So if there is doubt in his idenity , yet all media outlets are running story as "PAKISTANI"




Is it not appropriate that the identity of the so called person was first verified with Pakistani Counsel ? What refugee crisis we have other then Afghans illegally staying in Pakistan


Good old Fox promoting news as 100% certain it was a Pakistani person  so fox channel who are no where near Germany have better idea it was a Pakistani man and not Afghan refugee , becasue if it is Afghan guy , it is Pakistani guy


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## BD_India_friend

Berlin police now say the man found dead inside the truck – whom they earlier identified as Polish – was *not* the driver.

It is not at this stage clear whether they mean that he was not the person who drove the truck into the market, or if they are ruling him out as the original Polish driver.

A man suspected of being at the wheel of the truck as it ploughed into the market was arrested 2km from the scene after eyewitnesses gave police a description of a person leaving the vehicle after the crash.

He was detained and is being interrogated, police said, but no further details of his identity or the circumstances of the crash have been given by officials.


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## Desertfalcon

The _Washington Post_ is reporting that two German government officials have confirmed that the Christmas Market attack suspect is a Pakistani national who came to Germany in February seeking asylum status there. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...9924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.2851c0e2679b

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## T-72

wow, Pakistani driver, eh ? 

oops

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## The Sandman

The guy could of afghan origin.

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## T-72

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810988379051610112


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Not our citizen till our own Government PAKISTAN Confirms it

Why don't the authorities release some info on this "Afghan refugee who escaped to Europe"


Old Passport info 

Birth Certificate

I don't recall a major war crisis in Pakistan that our citizens are seeking Assylum but Afghan area folks understandable, they had war in their country

How idiotic is this statement "Washington post thinks two government official think the man is Pakistani" What ...


Provide Passport 

Birth Certiciate 

Asylum Application info to Pakistan Government
What is his name and what launguage he speaks (Mother tounge)

If it was a Afgan guy , whose application you accepted and he turned out to be a criminal as stated in police report then why was he not deported ? For what you call Petty crime ? Now this guy was picked up from a Park at distance away not at scene of crime

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## Cherokee

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I don't recall a major war crisis in Pakistan that our citizens are seeking Assylum but Afghan area folks understandable, they had war in their country


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## BD_India_friend

From Berlin police: According to the information so far, the Polish man found dead inside the truck *was not the person who drove it into the Christmas market.

Source: *theguardian


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## AshishDelhi

Cherokee said:


>


https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2016/9/28/german-police-shoot-dead-iraqi-refugee

There are Pakistani refugees in Germany too. Just blaming afghans or Germans won't change the facts.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Very unprofessional behavior that this news is Trending in Viral Network and Pakistan Government did not even get identity information on this Alleged "Pakistani"

This same network of Media war / Viral network is exactly what has been targeting Turkey / Russia / Pakistan or China 

Pakistan Embassy has to act on this immediately and figure out who this person was and confirm or deny his identity


Suprised how his old identity could be leaked when clearly there is 0% evidence on his background

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## Desertfalcon

passingthrough said:


> Only western countries mentioned. While keep on giving arms to tinpot countries which kill people from 3rd world countries.
> Double standards.


I'm not sure the Turks on the board would agree with you calling their country, _Western._


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## T-72




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## F-22Raptor

My thoughts go out to the victims, their loved ones, and the German people.


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## MarkusS

So what evryone knew from beginning turns out to be true ... again.

He was a pakistani "refugee" who entered germany 2016. This parasite lived from german tax money. And now killed 12 people and wounded countless more. 

This is Merkels work. She and her croonies will pay for that.

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## Mage

MarkusS said:


> This is Merkels work. She and her croonies will pay for that.


Merkel will probably win again. If not her then SPD or Grune coalition will form government. They are even more leftist. Actually Merkel is a centrist to right in German political spectrum. Although I understand your anger, I don't see her paying anytime soon.


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## F-22Raptor

The US State Department had issued a warning back in November for travelers in Europe of a heightened risk of terror attacks at Christmas related events, including markets.


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## MarkusS

Philia said:


> Merkel will probably win again. If not her then SPD or Grune coalition will form government. They are even more leftist. Actually Merkel is a centrist to right in German political spectrum. Although I understand your anger, I don't see her paying anytime soon.



She already does. One quarter of her croonies lost their job already because AfD went from 4% to 20% within one year. She and her croonies cant step a foot into eastern germany without being pelted with eggs and shouted insults at. In western germany she has to endure the insults without the eggs. Considering the fact that the AfD beat her in her own home state you can suggest that this incident will result in an even greater win for AfD.

Reality is, coexistance is impossible. We cant live together. Its impossiible. And the right steps will be taken. 

Trump in office is the greatest victory for the global right imaginable. 

This ends now. And it wont end pretty.

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## Mage

MarkusS said:


> She already does. One quarter of her croonies lost their job already because AfD went from 4% to 20% within one year. She and her croonies cant step a foot into eastern germany without being pelted with eggs and shouted insults at. In western germany she has to endure the insults without the eggs. Considering the fact that the AfD beat her in her own home state you can suggest that this incident will result in an even greater win for AfD.


AfD might do well but no party alone will get majority votes in Germany. And no party will go on a coalition with AfD. It's either CDU/SPD coalition meaning Merkel chancellor or by off chance SPD/Grune coalition. Don't tell me you'd prefer SPD/Grune coalition. 



MarkusS said:


> Trump in office is the greatest victory for the global right imaginable.


Might be. But what do you expect him to do, Other then making life uncomfortable for immigrants? 



MarkusS said:


> This ends now. And it wont end pretty.


Not so fast. We're not living in the 1930's anymore.

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## utraash

Rest in peace...... 
None shall be blamed for this other than Germans who allowed these scums to breed out by sheltering them in Germany....


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## -SINAN-

Hımm, maybe after this attack Germany would stop supporting terrorists.


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## Timur

Sinan said:


> Hımm, maybe after this attack Germany would stop supporting terrorists.



no they will set some refugee camps on fire..

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## -SINAN-

Timur said:


> no they will set some refugee camps on fire..


They will come to their senses eventually.....anyways we many times warned EU countries about their Hippocratic behavior on the terror.


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## Russell

So many innocent deaths and right before Christmas 

Getting to the stage where the only refugees any nation will take in will be women and infants...anyone else is a potential threat.

That's a messed up way to think, because after all how many refugees have been taken in and how many have been terrorists? But, very soon...it'll be a case of better safe than sorry - no matter how harsh or heartless the policies might sound.


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## Clutch

MarkusS said:


> So what evryone knew from beginning turns out to be true ... again.
> 
> He was a pakistani "refugee" who entered germany 2016. This parasite lived from german tax money. And now killed 12 people and wounded countless more.
> 
> This is Merkels work. She and her croonies will pay for that.




Probably afghan... doubt he was Pakistani. Most afghans get fake or illegal Pakistani passports to travel on them. Just by looking at most of these so called "Pakistanis" ... they look afghan.

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## T-72

Clutch said:


> Probably afghan... doubt he was Pakistani. Most afghans get fake or illegal Pakistani passports to travel on them. Just by looking at most of these so called "Pakistanis" ... they look afghan.


maybe he was from _Pashtunistan_ then.

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## Clutch

passingthrough said:


> So convenient. When you want to look fair and tall , present the Pashtuns as Pakistanis , keep the karachi wallahs under the carpet , but when their is some trouble , all Pashtuns are Afghans. ✌.



Nah... Pakistanis aren't responsible for most terror attacks... it's mostly afghans or arabs.


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## Areesh

passingthrough said:


> So convenient. When you want to look fair and tall , present the Pashtuns as Pakistanis , keep the karachi wallahs under the carpet , but when their is some trouble , all Pashtuns are Afghans. ✌.



Yes that guy was a Pakistani.

So? What are you going to do about it? 

Score some brownie points on death of 12 humans?


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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> maybe he was from _Pashtunistan_ then.



Nah... i doubt he is Pakistani... afghan most probably

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## Clutch

T-72 said:


> khush to aap ko hona chahiye, shukar hai isne jihad Germany me kia, Pakistan mein nahi.



It's not a Pakistani guy. Nothing to do with us. ... afghan reject probably.

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## Zaem

Clutch said:


> It's not a Pakistani guy. Nothing to do with us. ... afghan reject probably.


Nice how you Pakistanis know that he was Afghani, care to give any more sources other than IMOs.



T-72 said:


> Honestly, I don't care about the Pakistani bit so much. Our friend Areesh seems to believe I got pleasure out of reading that, I didn't, it's the same breed of animals who kill you in your country and against whom your army is also fighting.
> 
> The bigger point here is about Germany and the continuing refugee disaster, these people are insane for having let in millions of these guys from the most dangerous places into their country. They aren't going to assimilate, they'll strain the welfare system and use it as a lifestyle rather than a safety net, more mass sexual violence, more jihad. Not looking good for Germany, until they kick Merkel out and replace her with a strongman.


Sadly itll most likely be far right candidate. Theyre just as bad as far left. 
Middle path would be great

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## barbarosa

A


Clutch said:


> It's not a Pakistani guy. Nothing to do with us. ... afghan reject probably.[/QUOTE
> Afghani with Pakistani passport?


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## Penguin

My my what a marvelous achievement. Really something to be proud of. Congratulations.


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## Devil Soul

*12 killed in ‘probable terrorist attack’ in Berlin Christmas market*
59 mins ago


*Berlin, Dec 20, 2016 (AFP) – *German police said Tuesday they were treating as “a probable terrorist attack” the killing of 12 people when a lorry ploughed through a packed Berlin Christmas market.

Dozens more were wounded Monday when the truck tore through the crowd, smashing through wooden stalls and crushing victims, in scenes reminiscent of July’s deadly attack in the French Riviera city of Nice.

Police detained the man believed to have deliberately crashed the heavy vehicle loaded with steel beams into the festive market in a area popular with tourists near the capital’s iconic Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church.

*The man behind the wheel was an asylum seeker believed to be from Afghanistan or Pakistan who arrived in Germany in February, according to security sources cited by DPA news agency.*

*A Polish man, thought to have been the truck’s registered driver, was found dead on the passenger seat, and police said he had not steered the vehicle.*

Twelve people were killed and 48 others injured as the lorry tore through the market for as far as 80 metres (yards) in the incident which came less than a week before Christmas.

*“I don’t want to use the word ‘attack’ yet, although there are many things pointing to one,” said Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere hours later.*

Berlin police early Tuesday said they presumed the lorry was “intentionally steered” into the crowd and called the bloody carnage a “probable terrorist attack”.

One of the survivors, Australian Trisha O’Neill, said she was only metres from “this huge black truck speeding through the markets crushing so many people”.

“I could hear screaming and then we all froze. Then suddenly people started to move and lift all the wreckage off people, trying to help whoever was there,” she told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.

O’Neill said there was “blood and bodies everywhere”.

Chancellor Angela Merkel reacted quickly, with spokesman Steffen Seibert tweeting: “We mourn the dead and hope that the many people injured can be helped.”

*A German police spokeswoman told AFP that a man who was apparently driving the truck had been detained while the passenger was dead.*

*The daily Tagesspiegel said the man behind the wheel was known to police but for minor crimes, not links to terrorism.*

*Police later identified the passenger as a Polish national, while the Polish owner of the lorry confirmed his driver was missing.*

“We haven’t heard from him since this afternoon. We don’t know what happened to him,” transport company owner Ariel Zurawski told AFP on Monday evening.

“He’s my cousin, I’ve known him since I was a kid. I can vouch for him.”

Lukasz Wasik of the same company said contact was lost with the 37-year-old at around 3 pm (1400 GMT).

Traditional Christmas markets are popular in cities and towns throughout Germany and have frequently been mentioned by security services as potentially vulnerable to attacks.

“It’s awful. We were in Berlin for Christmas,” said American tourist Kathy Forbes. “We also thought it would be safer than Paris.”

The crash happened at a square at the end of the Kurfuerstendamm boulevard in the shadow of the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church whose damage in a World War II bombing raid has been preserved as a reminder of the horrors of war for future generations.

Europe has been on high alert for most of 2016, with terror attacks striking Paris and Brussels, while Germany has been hit by several assaults claimed by the Islamic State group and carried out by asylum-seekers.

An axe rampage on a train in the southern state of Bavaria in July wounded five people, and a suicide bombing left 15 people injured in the same state six days later.

In another case, a 16-year-old German-Moroccan girl in February stabbed a police officer in the neck with a kitchen knife, wounding him badly, allegedly on IS orders.

The arrival of 890,000 refugees last year has polarised Germany, with critics calling the influx a serious security threat.

The attack in Berlin comes five months after Tunisian extremist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel ploughed a truck into a crowd on the Nice seafront, killing 86 people.

In response to the suspected attack in Berlin, France beefed up security at its own Christmas markets.

“The French share in the mourning of the Germans in the face of this tragedy that has hit all of Europe,” President Francois Hollande said.

The Nice bloodshed — as people were watching a fireworks display on the Bastille Day holiday on July 14 — further traumatised a France already reeling from a series of jihadist attacks.

The United States labelled Monday’s incident an apparent “terrorist attack” and pledged its support.

President-elect Donald Trump blamed “Islamist terrorists” for a “slaughter” of Christians in the German capital.

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## Devil Soul

*Police storm Berlin's former airport used as refugee home - media*
RREUTERS
December 20, 2016

German magazine Focus said on Tuesday that police special forces were storming a hangar at Berlin's defunct Tempelhof airport, which now houses a refugee accommodation centre.

On Monday evening a truck ploughed into a crowd at a Berlin Christmas market, killing 12 people and injuring 48 others. Police say they suspect it was a terrorist attack.

German media cited local security sources as saying that there was evidence suggesting the arrested suspect was from Afghanistan or Pakistan and had entered Germany as a refugee.

Neither police nor prosecutors were immediately available for comment.


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## Desertfalcon

German _Die Welt _is reporting as breaking news that the Berlin attack suspect is a 23 year old Pakistani national, releasing only his first name and initial: *Naved "B"*, who entered Germany on 16 Feb. 2016. 


https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...-wohl-in-Berliner-Fluechtlingsunterkunft.html

https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/live160453735/SEK-stuermt-Hangar-am-Flughafen-Tempelhof.html

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## Devil Soul

21m ago07:53
*Berlin truck 'terrorist attack': 12 killed in Christmas market crash – live*

Police say they believe truck ‘deliberately’ driven into crowd
Twelve people killed and 48 injured at Berlin’s Breitscheidplatz

Suspect arrested after truck ‘stolen’ in Poland

Full report: suspect held and 12 dead in truck crash, officials say
*What we know so far*





Claire Phipps


Police have confirmed that they are treating an incident at Berlin’s Breitscheidplatz on Monday night as a “presumed terrorist attack”, saying they are working on the assumption that a truck was “intentionally” driven into a Christmas market.
Twelve people are confirmed to have died after a truck ploughed into crowds at around 8.15pm (7.15pm GMT) on Monday evening.
A further 48 people have been taken to hospital with injuries, some of them serious. Eyewitnesses said the truck drove into the market at speed, crushing visitors.
*A suspect was arrested 2km from the scene and is being interrogated. No details of his identity have been released. Police said they would hold a press conference at 1pm Tuesday (noon GMT).*

Early on Tuesday morning, police reportedly raided a a hangar at the disused Tempelhof airport in southern Berlin, part of which is currently housing refugees.





Police stand in front of the truck that ploughed into a crowded Christmas market in the German capital on Monday night. Photograph: Hannibal Hanschke/Reuters

Police said a man found dead inside the truck, identified as a Polish citizen, was not the person who drove it into the market.
The Polish company that owns the truck said its 37-year-old driver, who was transporting steel beams, had been due to take a break in Berlin but had not been heard from since early Monday afternoon.
Berlin police said they were investigating if the truck was stolen from a construction site in Poland, but other reports said it was returning to Poland from Italy.
The White House condemned what it said “appears to have been a terrorist attack”. US president-elect Donald Trump called it a “horrifying terror attack”, blaming “Isis and other Islamist terrorists [who] continually slaughter Christians in their communities and places of worship”.
But Germany’s interior minister, Thomas de Maizière, urged caution:
There is a psychological effect in the whole country of the choice of words here, and we want to be very, very cautious and operate close to the actual investigation results, not with speculation.


The US state department issued a warning in November for travellers in Europe of a heightened risk of terror attacks at Christmas-related events, including markets, by Isis, al-Qaida and affiliates.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/dec/19/berlin-truck-crash-christmas-market-live

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## barbarosa

Devil Soul said:


> *12 killed in ‘probable terrorist attack’ in Berlin Christmas market*
> 59 mins ago
> 
> 
> *Berlin, Dec 20, 2016 (AFP) – *German police said Tuesday they were treating as “a probable terrorist attack” the killing of 12 people when a lorry ploughed through a packed Berlin Christmas market.
> 
> Dozens more were wounded Monday when the truck tore through the crowd, smashing through wooden stalls and crushing victims, in scenes reminiscent of July’s deadly attack in the French Riviera city of Nice.
> 
> Police detained the man believed to have deliberately crashed the heavy vehicle loaded with steel beams into the festive market in a area popular with tourists near the capital’s iconic Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church.
> 
> *The man behind the wheel was an asylum seeker believed to be from Afghanistan or Pakistan who arrived in Germany in February, according to security sources cited by DPA news agency.*
> 
> *A Polish man, thought to have been the truck’s registered driver, was found dead on the passenger seat, and police said he had not steered the vehicle.*
> 
> Twelve people were killed and 48 others injured as the lorry tore through the market for as far as 80 metres (yards) in the incident which came less than a week before Christmas.
> 
> *“I don’t want to use the word ‘attack’ yet, although there are many things pointing to one,” said Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere hours later.*
> 
> Berlin police early Tuesday said they presumed the lorry was “intentionally steered” into the crowd and called the bloody carnage a “probable terrorist attack”.
> 
> One of the survivors, Australian Trisha O’Neill, said she was only metres from “this huge black truck speeding through the markets crushing so many people”.
> 
> “I could hear screaming and then we all froze. Then suddenly people started to move and lift all the wreckage off people, trying to help whoever was there,” she told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
> 
> O’Neill said there was “blood and bodies everywhere”.
> 
> Chancellor Angela Merkel reacted quickly, with spokesman Steffen Seibert tweeting: “We mourn the dead and hope that the many people injured can be helped.”
> 
> *A German police spokeswoman told AFP that a man who was apparently driving the truck had been detained while the passenger was dead.*
> 
> *The daily Tagesspiegel said the man behind the wheel was known to police but for minor crimes, not links to terrorism.*
> 
> *Police later identified the passenger as a Polish national, while the Polish owner of the lorry confirmed his driver was missing.*
> 
> “We haven’t heard from him since this afternoon. We don’t know what happened to him,” transport company owner Ariel Zurawski told AFP on Monday evening.
> 
> “He’s my cousin, I’ve known him since I was a kid. I can vouch for him.”
> 
> Lukasz Wasik of the same company said contact was lost with the 37-year-old at around 3 pm (1400 GMT).
> 
> Traditional Christmas markets are popular in cities and towns throughout Germany and have frequently been mentioned by security services as potentially vulnerable to attacks.
> 
> “It’s awful. We were in Berlin for Christmas,” said American tourist Kathy Forbes. “We also thought it would be safer than Paris.”
> 
> The crash happened at a square at the end of the Kurfuerstendamm boulevard in the shadow of the Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church whose damage in a World War II bombing raid has been preserved as a reminder of the horrors of war for future generations.
> 
> Europe has been on high alert for most of 2016, with terror attacks striking Paris and Brussels, while Germany has been hit by several assaults claimed by the Islamic State group and carried out by asylum-seekers.
> 
> An axe rampage on a train in the southern state of Bavaria in July wounded five people, and a suicide bombing left 15 people injured in the same state six days later.
> 
> In another case, a 16-year-old German-Moroccan girl in February stabbed a police officer in the neck with a kitchen knife, wounding him badly, allegedly on IS orders.
> 
> The arrival of 890,000 refugees last year has polarised Germany, with critics calling the influx a serious security threat.
> 
> The attack in Berlin comes five months after Tunisian extremist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel ploughed a truck into a crowd on the Nice seafront, killing 86 people.
> 
> In response to the suspected attack in Berlin, France beefed up security at its own Christmas markets.
> 
> “The French share in the mourning of the Germans in the face of this tragedy that has hit all of Europe,” President Francois Hollande said.
> 
> The Nice bloodshed — as people were watching a fireworks display on the Bastille Day holiday on July 14 — further traumatised a France already reeling from a series of jihadist attacks.
> 
> The United States labelled Monday’s incident an apparent “terrorist attack” and pledged its support.
> 
> President-elect Donald Trump blamed “Islamist terrorists” for a “slaughter” of Christians in the German capital.


The whole world is facing to terror attacks by refuge people, Pakistan is facing since 1980, I wonder why Pak govt is not interesting in the sending of Afghan refuges to their homeland?


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## foxtrot1

barbarosa said:


> The whole world is facing to terror attacks by refuge people, Pakistan is facing since 1980, I wonder why Pak govt is not interesting in the sending of Afghan refuges to their homeland?


In EU many pakistani themselves are refugees and this problem is not refugee related but religion related.

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## T-72

Zaem said:


> Sadly itll most likely be far right candidate. Theyre just as bad as far left.
> Middle path would be great


What exactly is far right ? 

Seems to me anyone nationalist who is for national sovereignty and border and immigration control gets labelled 'far' right in Europe. Take Le Penn for example, it's wrong to label her an extremist etc. 

The left has overplayed it's hand in Europe over these past decades, what we're seeing now is a natural restoration of order as more and more people switch sides and vote right as liberal authoritarian ideas fall out of favor with the native people.


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## hussain0216

foxtrot1 said:


> May be whatever you are saying is correct but you cannot explain this to the any face on street. Things have already polarized.
> 
> And why EU, germany? the french british and us did the job in Baghdad. and other places.
> People not liking Islam and its a fact for Muslims.




Matey, do you want to know the point of AQ or ISIS or any of the extremists?

its to basically instigate a backlash against Muslims 

The muslim world is plenty powerful its at a natural low ebb however

power though comes and goes 

The extremists know they and their actions at best are a pin prick (they couldn't of have imagined they could have got this far in iraq and Syria though)

What they want is CHANGE in the muslim world towards a right wing, Conservative anti non Muslim world view

but they cant get that partially because of the west but MAINLY because muslim countries themselves have politicians and dictators who are secular or liberal etc



So the main reason for extremists to do attacks such as 911 or Yesterday's berlin attack is to instigste a response and backlash against ordinary muslims


*and its working 
the basic liberalism of the west that made it so tolerable is beginning to slip*
so the first victory of the extremists was to change the very basis and nature of society and to erode the very rights and tolerance that encourage the globalised intergrated world of today 

when that happens their will be an increasing backlash against muslims AND ALL IMMIGRANTS including hindus it will beca gradual snowballing effect

this will then be reciprocated with anger and hatred in the muslim world 
As their people are harmed or attacked or insulted the narrative of the extremists becomes more valid and attractive 

and this isxthe exact plan of Aq, isis and the rest of them and its working


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## Mansoon

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...gela-merkel-latest-news-updates-a7486076.html

He was a Pakistani. Congratulations

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## terry5

disgusting piece of filth

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

*Berlin attack: Suspect named as 23-year-old asylum seeker from Pakistan*


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/19/lorry-ploughs-crowd-christmas-market-berlin/

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## Khafee

Mansoon said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...gela-merkel-latest-news-updates-a7486076.html
> 
> He was a Pakistani. Congratulations


I wouldn't be so quick to him being Pakistani, until Pakistani Agencies confirm that he wasn't an Afghani on a Pakistani passport.

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## Asgard

Khafee said:


> I wouldn't be so quick to him being Pakistani, until Pakistani Agencies confirm that he wasn't an Afghani on a Pakistani passport.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811131786906505216

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## foxtrot1

Khafee said:


> Dear Mr.Hate, Call up the German embassy and ask them if they give asylum to Pakistanis.
> 
> 
> No evidence of that either. No off topic rants , Stick to the topic, or suffer the consequences.


I am giving you an example how Pakistanis wash their hands off from responsiblity. And allow rouge elements to carry out cross border terrorism and later deny the involvement. 

If the sun is there shining you will call it night on that part of earth because on some corner of universe it is night

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## banvanaxl

*A large truck has stormed through a Christmas market in the German capital of Berlin killing 12 people and injuring many others. German press reports a 23-year old recent migrant has been arrested.*
*UPATE 09:00 GMT — *The suspected killer has now been named in German media as 23 year old Naved B., a Pakistani origin migrant who arrived in Germany in 2015. Broadsheet _Welt_ reports German security services raided a hangar at Berlin Templehof last night — the 1930’s former city airport which has now been transformed into the city’s biggest migrant camp.

Although Berlin police have been reluctant to make statements to this point, the paper now reports they are speaking of a terror attack and the security service was aware of the possibility for an Islamist attack against a Christmas market. While it is reported the suspected killer was known to police for minor criminal offences, he was not on a terror watchlist.

*UPDATE 21:22 EST — *According to the latest AP report, 12 people are dead and nearly 50 injured from the truck smashing into the victims at a Christmas market in Germany. Police said a suspect believed to be the driver was arrested nearby and a passenger died as paramedics were treating him.

*UPDATE 19:15 EST — *President-elect Donald Trump condemned the attack in a statement from his Mar-a-Lago estate in Florida:

“Our hearts and prayers are with the loved ones of the victims of today’s horrifying terror attack in Berlin. Innocent civilians were murdered in the streets as they prepared to celebrate the Christmas holiday. ISIS and other Islamist terrorists continually slaughter Christians in their communities and places of worship as part of their global jihad. These terrorists and their regional and worldwide networks must be eradicated from the face of the earth, a mission we will carry out with all freedom-loving partners.”


*UPDATE 19:00 EST — *The White House has condemned the Berlin attack through National Security Council spokesman Ned Price:

“The United States condemns in the strongest terms what appears to have been a terrorist attack on a Christmas Market in Berlin, Germany, which has killed and wounded dozens. We send our thoughts and prayers to the families and loved ones of those killed, just as we wish a speedy recovery to all of those wounded. We also extend our heartfelt condolences to the people and Government of Germany. We have been in touch with German officials, and we stand ready to provide assistance as they recover from and investigate this horrific incident. Germany is one of our closest partners and strongest allies, and we stand together with Berlin in the fight against all those who target our way of life and threaten our societies.”

*UPDATE 18:55 EST — *_Die Welt _is reporting that the driver of the truck is “said to have come to Germany as a refugee,” although the article does not elaborate on where that information comes from.

*UPDATE 18:15 EST — *The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the Berlin attack, according to an analysis of several online jihadist networks by the anti-ISIS Iraqi Popular Mobilization Force. However, some other analysts say the Iraqi group is premature with that declaration, and a formal claim of responsibility should be awaited from tradition ISIS communications outlets.

The UK _Sun _reports that Facebook has activated a “Safety Check” feature that allows people to tell friends and family they are safe. The _Sun _notes that Facebook’s initial statement on the Safety Check activation referred to an “attack” in Berlin, but this was later changed to read “violent incident.”

*UPDATE 17:35 EST — *_Die Welt_ has made a correction and now believes that the man arrested was not of Chechen origin but is Pakistani.

*UPDATE 17:24 EST — * German paper _Die Welt_ claims that the man arrested by police is of Chechen origin. The National Criminal Police Office (LKA) say that the dead passenger may have either died during the incident or may have been shot beforehand.

*UPDATE 17:18 EST — *French Front Nationale politician Marion Le Pen has expressed solidarity with the German people via Twitter and has called the incident an “Islamic terror attack.”

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/12/19/one-dead-lorry-plows-berlin-christmas-market/

@MarkusS @Vergennes


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## grey boy 2

Kesang said:


> Pakistan is not state of war. Why do so many Pakistani seeking asylum in west? Western countries should avoid giving asylum too Pakistani unless they are minorities unless they will get lots of anjum chaudry and like this one.



RIP really sad incident
I will be more than happy if you will preach the same to your fellow Indian asylum seekers that has been flooding my hometown Hongkong as well
http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...ng-kong-should-send-back-asylum-seekers-india

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## hussain0216

foxtrot1 said:


> More the muslims try to spread Islam more it will create problem for them. Any thing will be justified to stop spread of Islam. Because non Muslims are not willing to accept it nor to spread their belief on you. Hence such thought is dangerous for muslims only. And this leads to Islamic terrorism.



Independent people are free to accept islam across the world 

The more the merrier, do you think someone should not accept God and become a muslim because your *** is on fire?

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## Kesang

grey boy 2 said:


> RIP really sad incident
> I will be more than happy if you will preach the same to your fellow Indian asylum seekers that has been flooding my hometown Hongkong as well
> http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...ng-kong-should-send-back-asylum-seekers-india


 insignificant. Doesn't even sound true. Again, they are economic migrants. Agreed, honk kong authority should not give asylum to such people. Btw, I don't think that they will ask for sharia for everyone or going to blow themself at middle of crowded market unlike asylum seeker emigrated from western neighbours

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## saiyan0321

Khafee said:


> No personal Attacks



What did you expect. For him to be rational. You can't expect him to understand how moronic his callous attempts to brush an entire nation of 200 million due to the acts of one or to brush 1.7 billion people of the same religion with the few despite the fact that the 1.7 have suffered the most from the few. People who have one mission which is to troll cannot possibly understand the fact that pakistan has housed 3 million refugees registered and 2 million unregistered of afghan origin for thirty years and due to corruption and political benefits of a vote bank of the likes of achakzai, some attained ID cards and passports. You cant expect him to understand the porous open border of afpak for 70 years. Leave him to wallow in his hate. Pity him for he truly has nothing better to do but to spread hate. 

The thing is they look to find even a sock made in pakistan to divert attention towards pakistan. 


Anyhow it is a very sad incident. RIP.

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## hussain0216

foxtrot1 said:


> I won't do but please ask him too to avoid making unwanted post and give him negative rating too.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is demand of Sharia, then protesting for it and slowly diluting the rules of country. Radicals creating havoc like in berlin. Is not a peaceful way.



The radicals are mainly just angered by foreign policy wars like in iraq or syria or Palestine.
cant be helped, you can't heal the wound until the knife is taken out


their is also no muslim community or movement expecting or calling for sharia in the west

plenty of people convert to islam but that is only natural

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## Abingdonboy

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I don't recall a major war crisis in Pakistan that our citizens are seeking Assylum but Afghan area folks understandable, they had war in their country


There are thousands of Pakistani "asylum seekers" in Europe, if i remember correctly a large proportion of the men (identified as "refugees"/"asylum seekers" in the media) who sexually assualted Germen women in Cologne in Jan 2016 were of Pakistani origin.

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## CorporateAffairs

No point in repenting now, they allowed terrorists into their country, now suffer.


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## Margarita

BERLIN,: The suspected driver of a truck that ploughed into a Berlin Christmas market+ and killed 12 people on Monday was a 23-year old migrant from Pakistan, a German security source told Reuters on Tuesday. 

The suspect arrived in Germany in February, was known to police for minor offences and used several names, said the source. He was staying at a refugee hostel in the building of what used to be Tempelhof airport, added the source. 

The truck crashed into people gathered on Monday evening around wooden huts serving mulled wine and sausages+ at the foot of the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church - left as a ruin after World War Two - in the heart of former West Berlin. 

It evoked memories of an attack in Nice, France in July when a Tunisian-born man drove a 19-tonne truck along the beach front, mowing down people+ who had gathered to watch the fireworks on Bastille Day, killing 86 people. That was claimed by Islamic State. 

On Tuesday morning the black truck was still visible at the site of the incident and a few candles and roses had been laid by the entrance to a nearby station. Flowers were being laid in the centre of the nearby Kurfuerstendamm, a prestigious shopping street. One woman was crying as she stopped by the flowers. 

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere had previously said there were indications that the incident was an attack. 

Police said a Polish man was found dead in the truck but added he was not in control of the vehicle. The nationality of the suspected driver, who fled the crash scene and was later arrested, was unclear, they said. 

Justice Minister Heiko Maas said on Twitter that the federal prosecutor had launched preliminary proceedings into the incident. 

* RAID ON REFUGEE CENTRE *

Local broadcaster rbb cited security sources as saying the arrested truck driver came to Germany via Passau, a city on the Austrian border, on December 31, 2015. It cited the sources as saying the man was born on January 1, 1993 in Pakistan and was already known to police for minor offences. 

German newspaper Die Welt said police special forces stormed a hangar at Berlin's defunct Tempelhof airport housing a refugee accommodation centre at around 4 am. (0300 GMT). It said, without citing its sources, that the arrested man was registered there. 

A refugee there who gave his name only as Ahmed told Reuters security guards had told him there was a raid at around 4 am. 

Prosecutors declined to immediately comment on the report. 

If a migrant link is confirmed, it could further sour sentiment towards asylum seekers in Germany, where more than a million people fleeing conflict and poverty in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere have arrived this year and last. 

The record influx has hit Chancellor Angela Merkel's popularity ratings and boosted support for the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD). Senior AfD member Marcus Pretzell blamed Merkel for the attack on Twitter. 

Manfred Weber, head of the centre-right European People's Party, said: "It's not an attack on a country; it's an attack on our way of life, on the free society in which we are allowed to live." 

Stephan Mayer, a senior member of the Christian Social Union - the Bavarian sister party to Merkel's Christian Democrats, told broadcaster ZDF it was necessary to ensure that there were no copycat attacks.
Recommended By Colombia


Austrian Interior Minister Wolfgang Sobotka said on ORF radio on Tuesday that he had told the heads of Austria's regional police forces to intensify surveillance measures, although there was no concrete evidence that an incident was about to happen. 

Sobotka also called for biometric and fingerprint checks to be introduced along the Balkan route to better control foreign jihadist fighters' movements.

Berlin police are investigating leads that the truck had been stolen from a construction site in Poland. They have taken the truck for a forensic examination.

Flags will be hung at half-mast around Germany on Tuesday.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...from-pakistan-report/articleshow/56082277.cms

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## Abingdonboy

grey boy 2 said:


> RIP really sad incident
> I will be more than happy if you will preach the same to your fellow Indian asylum seekers that has been flooding my hometown Hongkong as well
> http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight...ng-kong-should-send-back-asylum-seekers-india


What does this have to do with anything? Because this animal was a Pakistani you have to jump to your poodle's defence and bring in India? Are those scamsters in Hong Kong going around driving HGVs into your crowded markets or shooting up offices? Until they are all you are doing is engaging in the typical false equivalency. Are fake economic migrants the same as terrorists?

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## PatriotLover

Afghan with fake Pakistani passport.

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## hussain0216

foxtrot1 said:


> Modi has done the right thing IF he has.Because it was started by Muslims only and if he had not done it the lord of cross border terrorism and sleeper cells with links with ISI or LeT, HuJI would have gone fearless and created another proxy in the Gujarat region. He just showed that this sh*t will not be tolerated. As I said the agenda of spreading Islam will not be tolerated!
> 
> 
> 
> Muslims are wasting their time and they will not achieve anything out of this except for more suppression. The more Muslims believe in brotherhood the more the rest will tease them. Rather improving the life and contributing to the world with better infrastructure and knowledge the contribution in this and previous century by the Muslims is zero.




What has modi done? His Kashmir and Pakistan policy has been destroyed, he is busy trying to isolate us whilst we grow both economically and militarily 

Oh we should forget muslims around the world because a bakht says so, thanks for the advice Gupta!

Islam is spreading as per Gods will nothing you or I can do about it


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## terry5

--



Abingdonboy said:


> There are thousands of Pakistani "asylum seekers" in Europe, if i remember correctly a large proportion of the men (identified as "refugees"/"asylum seekers" in the media) who sexually assualted Germen women in Cologne in Jan 2016 were of Pakistani origin.



Rubbish


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## maximuswarrior

Seems like an Afghan who has a Pakistani passport in possession.

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## damm1t

Terrorism is the most terrible thing in the world. Unfortunately we have been figting with it for decades...

Meanwhile....

European states kept the wanted terrorists in their countries,
They didn't give them us back,
We captured German ( or some other ) made weapons on terrorists,
EU parliament let terrorists make propaganda in the parliament building,
Belgium let PKK to make propaganda on the street freely,
European spies captured between them...

So don't be so shocked when the fire jumped on you... It will probably continue till Europe understands what terror is.
RIP to the victims...

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## Kashmiri Pandit

On another forum they were saying either Afghani or Pakistani or some migrant . The person with him was polish . No idea the dead guy or the accomplice .


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## Skywalker

Confiscate or block all passports given to Afghanies Mr. Nisar before it's too late.

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## sankar

Kashmiri Pandit said:


> On another forum they were saying either Afghani or Pakistani or some migrant . The person with him was polish . No idea the dead guy or the accomplice .



The Truck was a Poland Truck and the Driver was in it. Probably he is in the Truck dead. But Police caught the suspect. But so far only German Local channels and new agencies give this report. Not by any cops officially to the world. We have to wait and see it sees.

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## Indus Pakistan

Okay the latest news is that the truck driver who rammed into Christmas shoppers in Berlin was 23 year old asylum seeker Pakistani 'Naved B' who had arrived in Germany just over 11 months ago. For now we will assume these reports are true and frankly we should not be too surprised. I dearly hope that later we find out this news was incorrect but my feeling is this will remain just a wish. 

At a personal level I am deeply shaken and this incident will make life even more difficult for us when we say 'Pakistani', it will make life even more difficult for those travelling on the Pakistani passport and it will make the job of defending Pakistan even more difficult. This will give billion Indian's a reason to have Hindu festival on the Ganges.

However all that cannot detract from the fact that there is somethig terribly wrong at the very heart of Pakistani society when a migrant refugee only 23 years old after having been given a refuge by Germany - a country Pakistan has no issues with whatsoever decides just 11 months after arriving there to ram a articulated truck into innocent women and children.

This thread is not about finding external blames. No it is time to take stock and own up to the fact that there is evil being nurtured inside Pakistan and this Naved carried that evil with him to Germany. Political and hate murders are common in Pakistan and this incident is only significant because it was exported abroad. Otherwise these hate crimes happen in Pakistan more often then it rains.

This is a serious thread and I don't want deflection, trying to find outsiders to blame, try to blame India. It is time for *introspection *and solutions to purge the hate inside the country that spilled over to Berlin. We have to accept that Pakistani society is infected with a disease. We have to look at the aetiology of this problem and suggest solution to tackle this malignancy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/

@Arsalan @niaz @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Sinopakfriend @haviZsultan

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## Abingdonboy

PatriotLover said:


> Afghan with fake Pakistani passport.





maximuswarrior said:


> Seems like an Afghan who has a Pakistani passport in possession.





Skywalker said:


> Confiscate or block all passports given to Afghanies Mr. Nisar before it's too late.


How can you all be so sure this was an Afghan is a fake passport?

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## foxtrot1

PatriotLover said:


> Afghan with fake Pakistani passport.



That's a rumour. 

He is a Pakistani with Pakistani passport. And any one having a Pakistani passport is a Pakistani. 

There is no such thing as Afghan or Somalian with a Pakistani passport. LOL!

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## sankar

PatriotLover said:


> Afghan with fake Pakistani passport.



When something points to Pakistan, then it becomes Fake to you people. even if is rock hard evidences.



maximuswarrior said:


> Seems like an Afghan who has a Pakistani passport in possession.


You people always say the same thing when you get caught.



Abingdonboy said:


> How can you all be so sure this was an Afghan is a fake passport?



Maybe they knowingly gave their Fake passport to them. who knows .....?

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## haviZsultan

It is surprising and shocking. Germany has done absolutely nothing against muslims/Pakistanis. They have sheltered the most muslim refugees and this is how we repay them. Muslims really need to introspect and question themselves. My full sympathies for the people of Germany. I am ashamed of this act of violent terror and request you to please not judge the people of Pakistan on the basis of this evil mans action.

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## progrank

I am shocked...


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## maximuswarrior

foxtrot1 said:


> That's a rumour.
> 
> He is a Pakistani with Pakistani passport. And any one having a Pakistani passport is a Pakistani.
> 
> There is no such thing as Afghan or Somalian with a Pakistani passport. LOL!



LOL There are enough Afghans roaming around with Pakistani passports in Europe. Secondly, let's wait for conclusive reports. Thus far there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that this so-called "Pakistani" did the evil deed.

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## SBD-3

That's what happens when you teach generations after generation, the extremism. The crap being filled in people's mind in the name of revenge will continue to yield such incidents even in days to come.

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## foxtrot1

maximuswarrior said:


> LOL There are enough Afghans roaming around with Pakistani passports. Secondly, let's wait for conclusive reports. Thus far there is no conclusive evidence to suggest that this "Pakistani" did the deed.



If they have Pakistani passports they are pakistani nationals. No matter what the ethnicity is


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## Jugger

Unfortunate incident indeed but we need to understand the root cause of such acts, if you try to get your head around it then all this terrorism is because of the radical/extremist interpretation of religious texts, radicals can be from any religion and come from anywhere in the world. A normal guy sitting in New York can become radicalized by watch something on the internet.
We need to catch these hate preachers and stop them from spreading their venom further.

I am more afraid of a religious guy than an aetheist nowadays.


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## damm1t

haviZsultan said:


> It is surprising and shocking. Germany has done absolutely nothing against muslims/Pakistanis. They have sheltered the most muslim refugees and this is how we repay them

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## H!TchHiker

foxtrot1 said:


> If they have Pakistani passports they are pakistani nationals. No matter what the ethnicity is



Lets admit he is from Pakistan..Question is what next now ? At first Pakistanis should not be allowed to claim asylum as such there is no conflict zone and those claiming should be sent back immediately..


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## Dawood Ibrahim

Who ever he was he took innocent lifes

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## T-123456

He is a suspect,nothing concrete yet.
He was arrested but denied any involvement.

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## Kabira

SBD-3 said:


> That's what happens when you teach generations after generation, the extremism. The crap being filled in people's mind in the name of revenge will continue to yield such incidents even in days to come.



Revenge for what though? For allowing million plus refugees? In case of Pakistanis, they are inmigrants who toke advantage of generous German aid for refugees.


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Kaptaan said:


> Okay the latest news is that the truck driver who rammed into Christmas shoppers in Berlin was 23 year old asylum seeker Pakistani 'Naved B' who had arrived in Germany just over 11 months ago. For now we will assume these reports are true and frankly we should not be too surprised. I dearly hope that later we find out this news was incorrect but my feeling is this will remain just a wish.
> 
> At a personal level I am deeply shaken and this incident will make life even more difficult for us when we say 'Pakistani', it will make life even more difficult for those travelling on the Pakistani passport and it will make the job of defending Pakistan even more difficult. This will give billion Indian's a reason to have Hindu festival on the Ganges.
> 
> However all that cannot detract from the fact that there is somethig terribly wrong at the very heart of Pakistani society when a migrant refugee only 23 years old after having been given a refuge by Germany - a country Pakistan has no issues with whatsoever decides just 11 months after arriving there to ram a articulated truck into innocent women and children.
> 
> This thread is not about finding external blames. No it is time to take stock and own up to the fact that there is evil being nurtured inside Pakistan and this Naved carried that evil with him to Germany. Political and hate murders are common in Pakistan and this incident is only significant because it was exported abroad. Otherwise these hate crimes happen in Pakistan more often then it rains.
> 
> This is a serious thread and I don't want deflection, trying to find outsiders to blame, try to blame India. It is time for *introspection *and solutions to purge the hate inside the country that spilled over to Berlin. We have to accept that Pakistani society is infected with a disease. We have to look at the aetiology of this problem and suggest solution to tackle this malignancy.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
> 
> @Arsalan @niaz @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Sinopakfriend @haviZsultan


.

I am truly sadden by this insane and horrific act of pure sickness. Without any reserve I denouce this hineous, cowardly act.

This so pathetic and sou less that I can not find words to condemn it.

The sheer ingratitude... when people move to the West for better ife.. they leave behind places where there are no right and justice..only misery and injustice.

While enjoying welfare of hardworking taxpayers they instead of contributing and bettering themsleves demand, demand and demand...Look at your UK...how those who had/have been on welfare were/are the most vocal voices of hate.

@Götterdämmerung ...I have many German friends and had worked with them. One of the most humane and giving country in the world.

Religion is the opium of the masses as is nationalism. Both are form of facism. Both need to be well managed.

Is not the purpose of a religion spritiual growth?

Pak needs to act with vengence against those who are merchant of death and who use religion to accumulate wealth and power.

Your country has lost how many because of terrorism? Not to mention economically...

If it is proven that the killer was from your country..then the PM of Pak must take responsibility and show character...show support to the victims and the German state..by not empty words but concrete actions.

Pak needs to pass some tough laws and cut of the money supply coming from outside to these sick minds...

I do appologise if I have acted as a bad guest and offended Pak peoples...but this is unacceptable.

May the families of the innocent victims find peace...

Germany must act ruthlessly...if there is one there will be more.

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## F86 Saber

What if the guy is an Afghan illegally holding a Pakistani passport? By the way, Germany does not extend asylum to Pakistanis as Pakistan is not a war effected country so if the guy came on a Pakistani passport or declared that he was a Pakistani, he would not have stayed in Germany for 11 months. He would have been sent back immediately. I travel to Germany at least 4 times a year and this has scared me to my core.


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## VCheng

Kaptaan said:


> We have to accept that Pakistani society is infected with a disease. We have to look at the aetiology of this problem and suggest solution to tackle this malignancy.



You assume a solution exists. It may not.

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## Penguin

Khafee said:


> What marvelous achievement are you referring to?


This shizzle in Berlin.



Khafee said:


> I wouldn't be so quick to him being Pakistani, until Pakistani Agencies confirm that he wasn't an Afghani on a Pakistani passport.


Navid B. aka David aka Naved B. Born January 1st, 1993 , in Turbat, Pakistan. Travelled to Germany in February, where he got a residence permit on June 2nd 2016. At least, that's according to the news here, which in turn refers to German 'security sources'.



Barmaley said:


> The Germans just start to taste their own medicine. When the Germans support terrorists in Syria, Iraq and all over M.East and N.Caucasus they probably didn't think it will return back to them like boomerang.


Big assertions. Any evidence to support those claims?



CorporateAffairs said:


> No point in repenting now, they allowed terrorists into their country, now suffer.


Oh ok, so you approve. Good to know that.



damm1t said:


> Terrorism is the most terrible thing in the world. Unfortunately we have been figting with it for decades...
> 
> Meanwhile....
> 
> European states kept the wanted terrorists in their countries,
> They didn't give them us back,
> We captured German ( or some other ) made weapons on terrorists,
> EU parliament let terrorists make propaganda in the parliament building,
> Belgium let PKK to make propaganda on the street freely,
> European spies captured between them...
> 
> So don't be so shocked when the fire jumped on you... It will probably continue till Europe understands what terror is.
> RIP to the victims...


What are you on about. There actually is LESS terrorism in Europe now, then the was e.g. the 1970s and 1980s. "We"in Europe (you know, that EU thingy the Turkey has wanted to join for decades) actually have a fairly good understanding of what terror is from those days.

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## M. Sarmad

Kaptaan said:


> .... Germany - a country Pakistan has no issues with whatsoever decides just 11 months after arriving there to ram a articulated truck into innocent women and children.





Pakistan's approach to Islamism, and our sense of self as the citadel of Islam


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## Kashmiri Pandit

@Kaptaan , Are you sure he was radicalized in Pakistan and not in Germany ?
Radicalism is on rise in those countries too .

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## sankar

Kaptaan said:


> Okay the latest news is that the truck driver who rammed into Christmas shoppers in Berlin was 23 year old asylum seeker Pakistani 'Naved B' who had arrived in Germany just over 11 months ago. For now we will assume these reports are true and frankly we should not be too surprised. I dearly hope that later we find out this news was incorrect but my feeling is this will remain just a wish.
> 
> At a personal level I am deeply shaken and this incident will make life even more difficult for us when we say 'Pakistani', it will make life even more difficult for those travelling on the Pakistani passport and it will make the job of defending Pakistan even more difficult. This will give billion Indian's a reason to have Hindu festival on the Ganges.
> 
> However all that cannot detract from the fact that there is somethig terribly wrong at the very heart of Pakistani society when a migrant refugee only 23 years old after having been given a refuge by Germany - a country Pakistan has no issues with whatsoever decides just 11 months after arriving there to ram a articulated truck into innocent women and children.
> 
> This thread is not about finding external blames. No it is time to take stock and own up to the fact that there is evil being nurtured inside Pakistan and this Naved carried that evil with him to Germany. Political and hate murders are common in Pakistan and this incident is only significant because it was exported abroad. Otherwise these hate crimes happen in Pakistan more often then it rains.
> 
> This is a serious thread and I don't want deflection, trying to find outsiders to blame, try to blame India. It is time for *introspection *and solutions to purge the hate inside the country that spilled over to Berlin. We have to accept that Pakistani society is infected with a disease. We have to look at the aetiology of this problem and suggest solution to tackle this malignancy.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
> 
> @Arsalan @niaz @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Sinopakfriend @haviZsultan



Man, now you're talking. Certainly if this happens at all levels in Pakistan, I am sure one day Pakistan will develope in all fields.


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## SBD-3

save_ghenda said:


> Revenge for what though? For allowing million plus refugees? In case of Pakistanis, they are inmigrants who toke advantage of generous German aid for refugees.


Revenge for the German role in conspiracy theories that are fed. Could be anything, could be a lack of economic opportunity, could be somehow linked to Aleppo, could be linked to Ahmadis, could be the anger at German public's attitude towards the on going conflicts. A mind that's been fed fire, only looks for reasons to comply the beliefs. If a seed of extremism is sown in a mind, it would eventually come out in one way or another. An asylum seeker going haywire is important, such person has supposedly shed Pakistan to save life (I'm brushing aside the general abuse of asylum by Pakistanis).


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## Penguin

Navid B. aka David aka Naved B. Born January 1st, 1993 , in Turbat, Pakistan. Travelled to Germany in February, where he got a residence permit on June 2nd 2016. At least, that's according to the news here, which in turn refers to German 'security sources'.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/terror-attack-in-christmas-market-in-berlin.467681/page-20#ixzz4TNZa78GP


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## Windjammer

It's a heinous crime at best of times even more brutal at this time of year.
What's more disturbing and mind boggling is the fact that within a year of him arriving in Germany and getting refuge what made him turn into a mass murderer. 
Although he is just a suspect at the moment and there's no excuse for such menace but there are a many Afghans running around with Pakistani passports....,.,


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## Russell

Winchester said:


> Ungrateful idiot.
> 
> I am also worried about Pakistanis in the U.K....among all Pakistani expats living in the West they seem to be the most susceptible to this sort of propaganda particularly with the influence of Salafism.


It's crazy...you'd think the older generation - parents, grandparents would be the extremists...due to their more conservative upbringing and language barrier...Nope. They worked they butts off to make it in the west...be it a job or a business and buy that dream house and become British/American/Aussie. Yet, their offspring who know nothing but the privileges of the west - all of a sudden feel like they don't belong...and they need to blow themselves up or kill their neighbors to get a sense of belonging...what a load of crock.

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## Indus Pakistan

haviZsultan said:


> It is surprising and shocking. Germany has done absolutely nothing against muslims/Pakistanis. They have sheltered the most muslim refugees and this is how we repay them. Muslims really need to introspect and question themselves. My full sympathies for the people of Germany. I am ashamed of this act of violent terror and request you to please not judge the people of Pakistan on the basis of this evil mans action.


Unfortunately people will judge us. So they should. We do it all the time. That is how the world is. This feelimngs are same. Disgust, shame and abhorence but all that is not going to addresss the issue.

We must begin by clinically dissecting the cause why Pakistani's are prone to such hate acts where they don't have any beef whatsoever. This guy for petes sakes arrived in Germany 11 months ago. That is less than 325 days. So clearly he was carry something within himself that caused this incident.

I think the problem is in the Pakistani mindset. Funny thing is your post even* exposes* the problem. It is subtle but profound. It is thought process so benign but so destructive as well. You said -



> Germany has done absolutely nothing against *muslims*/Pakistanis.


Notice how you place '*Muslim*' in front of 'Pakistani's'.



> They have sheltered the most* muslim* refugees and this is how we repay them


Again notice what the priority is in your sentance.



> *Muslims* really need to introspect and question themselves.


Again the emphasis can be seen.

This shows that even in your mind at a conceptual level your mind is functioning along a "Muslim and others" model to such a degree that it even supercedes your nationalty - Pakistan. You used 'Muslims' three times and even when you used 'Pakistan' it was relegated to second or subsidiary position. Now compare this with Arabs who will mostly say Arabs and maybe then say 'Muslim' or Turks who almost always say 'Turk' without any other qualifiers.

What does this tell me? Simple. The notion of belonging to a Muslim nationhood is stronger then belonging to Pakistani nationhood. This is bad news and very destructive to Pakistan. Simply because there are over 1 billion Muslims spread over the entire world in over 40 countries. Statistics and probability will mean that there are always going to be ongoing issues in such a large group. By investing into this huge group you end up being contractor for all problems of the Muslim world and sure enough you - Havizsultan might be able to function carrying that load on your head but when multiplied over millions on pakistani's your going to get some with temperament that takes them to go another step further, another step further and finally take the plunge over the top like this guy.

This problem cannot go away unless Pakistani's are reconfigured to think as* nationals* of a *state > Pakistan *not *nationals* of a > *global grouping*.

As long as this problem of priority - placing Pakistan first is not resolved some Pakistani will keep going over the top and become contractos for global problems. In their case they have not heard of the saying 'charity begins at home'.


@Sinopakfriend Can you please look and give a thought to what I said. Often a outsider can see things better?

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## Hyde

Feel free to disagree but the event has been mishandled by the Germans

Firstly they said it was possible terrorist attack, later they found out the driver was polish and the van had polish number plate and changed the terror attack into an accident... Now they discovered the driver (who was possibly polish) also had an accomplice co-driver who is a Pakistani asylum seeker and the event turns back to terrorist attack

The point is, he wasn't driving at that time and why would he just rush into market for no reason. I know there have been similar terrorist attacks in Europe such as the one France few months ago when the drive crushed people on the road but I have a feeling its just an accident... They need to check the vehicle first if the brakes were working or not

Ps: Europe has witnessed countless terrorist attacks but none were conducted by Non-Arab asylum seekers, wherever the Pakistanis were invovled, they were home grown militants

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## SAS

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> You assume a solution exists. It may not.



Admitting that the problem exists is a first step in the right direction.

@on-topic,

I know racists and ultra rights are gonna have a field day but, it's gonna be hard to counter cold hard facts.

I know these people are a very tiny tiny minority but, how can one distinguish between the silent majority and extremist minority.

Unfortunately, the only thing I see coming out of this is eventually Europe will start saying no to refugees and the only people suffering will be genuine refugees.

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## Hassan Guy

Well....good thing these extremists are leaving Pakistan....


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## Abingdonboy

foxtrot1 said:


> That's a rumour.
> !


It's not a rumour, it is the hopes of some induviduals on here but there is no actual speculation in the media about this.

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## Indus Pakistan

And please time for serious introspection and solutions. Not cheap escapism or burying your heads in the sand. I have been a member of this forum for a while and people should know I am a master at obfuscating, deflecting or otherwising confusing issues if I want to but this is a serious thread. We need solutions or else this curse will still be around even in our coming generations.

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## MaMo

Whether the suspect is Pakistani or Arab, that doesn't help situation of Muslims in West in any way. In Asia we are Pakistanis, Arabs, Persians, Afgahns, etc. But on this side of the world Muslims are seen as one caste, creed and type.

Besides, this is not about Germany not having harmed Muslims, or them giving refuge to Muslims. Extremists always attack either the softest or easiest targets: Germany is easier to get into than the bigger evils US, UK, etc


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## SAS

Zaki said:


> Feel free to disagree but the event has been mishandled by the Germans
> 
> Firstly they said it was possible terrorist attack, later they found out the driver was polish and the van had polish number plate and changed the terror attack into an accident... Now they discovered the driver (who was possibly polish) also had an accomplice co-driver who is a Pakistani asylum seeker and the event turns back to terrorist attack
> 
> The point is, he wasn't driving at that time and why would he just rush into market for no reason. I know there have been similar terrorist attacks in Europe such as the one France few months ago when the drive crushed people on the road but I have a feeling its just an accident... They need to check the vehicle first if the brakes were working or not
> 
> Ps: Europe has witnessed countless terrorist attacks but none were conducted by Non-Arab asylum seekers, wherever the Pakistanis were invovled, they were home grown militants



Mr. Moderator I don't think ever claimed it was an accident. They've always maintained 'terror-like' attack. I've been following BBC since yesterday and they have never claimed for certain that it was a terrorist attack.

Also, I'm sure it must be shocking that an attacker happens to be your countryman but, the fact remains that some youth of your country are radicalised.

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## H!TchHiker

Mrc said:


> Exactly .. why the fck they allowed him to stay ... as per my knowledge also its against the rules


Yes , this needs answer also..Let wait for details...


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## Hyde

SAS said:


> Mr. Moderator I don't think ever claimed it was an accident. They've always maintained 'terror-like' attack. I've been following BBC since yesterday and they have never claimed for certain that it was a terrorist attack.
> 
> Also, I'm sure it must be shocking that an attacker happens to be your countryman but, the fact remains that some youth of your country are radicalised.


They had. I am driving mostly so on radio they even claimed that the German authorities have confirmed it is an accident when the traces were all going to Poland.

I am nobody to judge between right and wrong and I am sure German authorities are more aware of the facts and will bring culprits to justice. I also believe that it takes time to gather facts and their latest observation may have weight into it. Pakistan have a history of producing violent creatures so its nothing as shocking however there have been very few Pakistanis ever invovled in terror activties in Europe. May the culprit be given the worst punishment possible and I do hope they will release the guy if he truly is an innocent


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## Indus Pakistan

MaMo said:


> Whether the suspect is Pakistani or Arab, that doesn't help situation of Muslims in West in any way. In Asia we are Pakistanis, Arabs, Persians, Afgahns, etc. But on this side of the world Muslims are seen as one caste, creed and type.
> 
> Besides, this is not about Germany not having harmed Muslims, or them giving refuge to Muslims. Extremists always attack either the softest or easiest targets: Germany is easier to get into than the bigger evils US, UK, etc


There. Your mindset also is exposing the problem - Mr Contractor. You dad probably would bust your a*ss for marrying anything less than your first cousin and here you are worried about the global Muslim fraternity.

@Zaki It may well come out later on further investigation that there was no Pakistani involved or this was not a terrorist incident. The intent of this thread is not to look at that but the broader question as why so often Pakistani's are involved religious driven acts of hate eitheir inside Pakistan (very often) or outside Pakistan (often). The issue is beyond the immediate matters you touched on. Fact is we have a problem whether this was not or was a terrorist incident. Can we please focus on that instead. I am still hoping that there is no Pakistani connection but that stillleaves this issue we face.

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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> The man suspected of deliberately ramming a large truck into a Christmas market in Berlin is a refugee from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region, two German intelligence officials and a police official told CNN.
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/20/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html



Being a refugee from the Afghanistan-Pakistan region and being born in Pakistan aren't mutually exclusive.


Neue Details zum Tatverdächtigen Navid B.
Nach aktuellen Informationen der “Welt” war der Tatverdächtige unter den Namen David und Navid B. bekannt, geboren am 1. 1. 1993 in Turbat, Pakistan. Er ist im Februar 2016 nach Deutschland eingereist und hat seit dem 2. Juni 2016 eine Aufenthaltsgenehmigung. Es ist nicht sicher, ob es sich bei ihm um den Täter handelt, die Ermittlungen zur Person dauern an. Die Generalbundesanwaltschaft hat ein Strafverfahren eingeleitet und das BKA mit den Ermittlungen beauftragt.
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...pistolen-antreten.html#live-ticker-entry-7712
Translated:
New details about the suspect Navid B.
According to current information of the "world", the suspect was known under the names David and Navid B., born on January 1, 1993 in Turbat, Pakistan. It was submitted to Germany in February 2016 and has been granted a residence permit since 2 June 2016. It is not certain whether it is the perpetrator, the investigations to the person last. The prosecutor's office has initiated criminal proceedings and has commissioned the BKA to investigate.


I suggest you also read these:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...gela-merkel-latest-news-updates-a7486076.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world...hristmas-market-lorry-suspect-truck-pakistani
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...er-hatte-seit-Juni-Aufenthaltsgestattung.html

Meanwhile at 13:00hrs today (28 minutes ago), it was reported:

Die Berliner Polizeiführung geht davon aus, dass es sich bei dem festgenommenen Pakistani nicht um den Todesfahrer handelt. Das erfuhr die “Welt” aus ranghohen Sicherheitskreisen. Demnach seien Angaben des mutmaßlichen Täters überprüft und als stimmend erachtet worden. “Wir haben den falschen Mann”, so ein ranghoher Polizeiführer. “Und damit eine neue Lage. Denn der wahre Täter ist noch bewaffnet auf freiem Fuß und kann neuen Schaden anrichten.” Die Bereitschaftspolizei der Hauptstadt und die Spezialkräfte wurden informiert.
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...pistolen-antreten.html#live-ticker-entry-7743
=
The police in Berlin assume that the Pakistani arrested is not the death driver. The "Welt" experienced this from high-ranking security cir- cles. According to this, the alleged perpetrator's data were verified and considered to be correct. "We have the wrong man," said a senior police officer. "And thus a new situation. For the real culprit is still armed at large and can cause new damage. "The capital's emergency police and the special forces were informed.


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## T-123456

Kaptaan said:


> Okay the latest news is that* the truck driver who rammed into Christmas shoppers in Berlin was 23 year old asylum seeker Pakistani 'Naved B'* who had arrived in Germany just over 11 months ago



*He was arrested but denied any involvement.*
In Germany,you are innocent until proven guilty.
Why would he deny the act if he did it?
Couldnt it be that he is actually innocent?
Wait for more info before making such a statement.

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## Valar Dohaeris

Kaptaan said:


> Unfortunately people will judge us. So they should. We do it all the time. That is how the world is. This feelimngs are same. Disgust, shame and abhorence but all that is not going to addresss the issue.
> 
> We must begin by clinically dissecting the cause why Pakistani's are prone to such hate acts where they don't have any beef whatsoever. This guy for petes sakes arrived in Germany 11 months ago. That is less than 325 days. So clearly he was carry something within himself that caused this incident.
> 
> I think the problem is in the Pakistani mindset. Funny thing is your post even* exposes* the problem. It is subtle but profound. It is thought process so benign but so destructive as well. You said -
> 
> Notice how you place '*Muslim*' in front of 'Pakistani's'.
> 
> Again notice what the priority is in your sentance.
> 
> Again the emphasis can be seen.
> 
> This shows that even in your mind at a conceptual level your mind is functioning along a "Muslim and others" model to such a degree that it even supercedes your nationalty - Pakistan. You used 'Muslims' three times and even when you used 'Pakistan' it was relegated to second or subsidiary position. Now compare this with Arabs who will mostly say Arabs and maybe then say 'Muslim' or Turks who almost always say 'Turk' without any other qualifiers.
> 
> What does this tell me? Simple. The notion of belonging to a Muslim nationhood is stronger then belonging to Pakistani nationhood. This is bad news and very destructive to Pakistan. Simply because there are over 1 billion Muslims spread over the entire world in over 40 countries. Statistics and probability will mean that there are always going to be ongoing issues in such a large group. By investing into this huge group you end up being contractor for all problems of the Muslim world and sure enough you - Havizsultan might be able to function carrying that load on your head but when multiplied over millions on pakistani's your going to get some with temperament that takes them to go another step further, another step further and finally take the plunge over the top like this guy.
> 
> This problem cannot go away unless Pakistani's are reconfigured to think as* nationals* of a *state > Pakistan *not *nationals* of a > *global grouping*.
> 
> As long as this problem of priority - placing Pakistan first is not resolved some Pakistani will keep going over the top and become contractos for global problems. In their case they have not heard of the saying 'charity begins at home'.
> 
> 
> @Sinopakfriend Can you please look and give a thought to what I said. Often a outsider can see things better?


It is a sad and appalling incident but associating with the whole society is not accurate. The suspect was a Pakistani national but he did not attack those christian in Pakistan and if he had any links with extremist element he should have never been allowed the asylum in Germany in first place. A serious investigation should be performed which will tell us what changed his mind in his 11 months stay in Germany. He did not attack any German military or govt office, his motive was simple and clear that is to harm innocent civilian at the eve of Christmas. If his actions speaks of the overall behavior of society, he would have also done something like this in Pakistan.


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## T-Faz

It's not surprising at this point or is it? 

As far as I can remember, I have not seen so much hatred for others than I did in Pakistan and this was before 9/11. I remember my Sunni teacher in a Catholic teacher spewing hatred against Shias. My friends abusing Hindu's, Jews or any other groups they were told by their parents, or environment, to despise. Pakistani's are by far the most emotional and reactive people you can come across. Very easy to manipulate and rile up.

What also doesn't help is the dire economic situation, an increasingly backward culture and a complete lack of empathy at this point. 

Such negative exists in other societies and countries too, but they have a good share of people who hold a different ideologically. They, as a society, are able to overcome problems by having an alternative to their problems and respecting each other enough to let them live.

Whats the solution? Lets start with the economy. Well off society's tend to be more liberal and inclusive, but its difficult considering the way Pakistan is run. Outright ban or change of ideology/religion isn't possible either. 

Look at history and see how a group within a nation had to fight to change things. The Americans fought a bloody civil war to abolish slavery and change the course of their country. In Pakistan, the intolerant, repressive, backward groups are far too powerful to change the status quo. But crazier things have happened.

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## Russell

Zaki said:


> Feel free to disagree but the event has been mishandled by the Germans
> 
> Firstly they said it was possible terrorist attack, later they found out the driver was polish and the van had polish number plate and changed the terror attack into an accident... Now they discovered the driver (who was possibly polish) also had an accomplice co-driver who is a Pakistani asylum seeker and the event turns back to terrorist attack
> 
> The point is, he wasn't driving at that time and why would he just rush into market for no reason. I know there have been similar terrorist attacks in Europe such as the one France few months ago when the drive crushed people on the road but I have a feeling its just an accident... They need to check the vehicle first if the brakes were working or not



This is not how it was reported

DW 17 hours ago -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810931397833670656
DW 16 hours ago -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810941367685881863
DW - 16 hours ago -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810946809308844032
DW 15 hours ago -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810963309080051712
DW 13 hours ago

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/810994947138736128
DW 11 hours ago -

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811023481756336133
DW 6 hours ago -
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/811100951360794624

DW - 4 hours ago and Pakistani asylum seeker mention
https://twitter.com/dwnews/status/811134027419832320

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## Soofi1

Just 23 Year of Age. Surly, He is being used. So it is not difficult to nab his Master.


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## Indus Pakistan

MaMo said:


> Not that I expected anything better than an anti-immigration migrant. Oh the irony.


Irony. Do you even know what that word means? Your dad busted his a*ss to bring you or spawn you in UK so you could have better life than be raped by poverty in Pakistan or get raped by the elites in Pakistan. Yet after having been fed by the British welfare state, born in state hispital, went to state school now have the luxury to have some free time free from hunger you start thinking about Islamic global fvckin hummah. Ever heard the saying bite the hand that feeds you?

You and your ilk are the friends of the Neo Nazis and the far right. You people give them food with your filthy ways .... If one day the far right take over it will be thanks to mutts like you.

And please I am going to ask members here to accept the *problem *and suggst *solutions*. Lets not get trapped in the tree and overlook the forest please.

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## HAIDER

May be a person came Germany on Pakistani passport. Anyway its bad very bad. Then Muslim complaint Europe hate us.....obviously if people do these type of acts, who will welcome them. But , we can't generalize. If one is bad, thousands others who living peacefully and doing the contribution for the economic progress of Germany.
What people achieve killing innocent civilians in the name of " personal religion believes".


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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> *Arrested man 'not the driver' - report*
> 
> Germany's Die Welt newspaper is quoting a "high-raking security source" as saying the arrested Pakistani man is not believed to be the person who carried out the deadly attack.
> 
> The man has denied any involvement.
> 
> "The real attacker is still armed and on the loose and can do more damage," the source told the newspaper.
> 
> Police and special units have been informed, the source told Die Welt.
> 
> Berlin police have renewed their calls for people in the city to report anything suspicious:


That's what I just posted. Meanwhil, the fact that this Navid/Naved B type isn't the killer, doesn't rule out that possibility the real perp is Pakistani (or any other nationality). So, let's all calm down and wait for more information.


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## T-123456

News flash,
*They claim to have arrested the wrong man.
*
There was a life press conference on N24 German news channel.


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## Cherokee

On Topic :

Every religion has two sides : Political and spiritual . Its the political sides that creates problems . Christians in the west have excellently delineated the two and more or less got rid of political side of religion . Jews Muslims and Neo Hindus not so much . No matter how much you say political side of your religion is rainbows sunshine and honey it is not . Its the most toxic thing out there which pools together the shrewd and lowest common denominator of a society together and that's where this whole story beings . If i teach a child from birth that oranges are apples it will always be apple in his mind . Ciao .

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## Russell

Uh Oh


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811189025969209345

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## VCheng

T-Faz said:


> Whats the solution? Lets start with the economy. Well off society's tend to be more liberal and inclusive, but its difficult considering the way Pakistan is run. Outright ban or change of ideology/religion isn't possible either.



So what you are saying here is that a solution does not exist.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

No he was not https://www.rt.com/news/370969-berlin-police-detained-wrong-man/

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## mudas777

Killing of any one never mind the innocents one makes it even more hurtful. Lets wait and see if he is indeed a Pakistan national and lets not jump the gun. But if he is indeed from our home land then Germany must deport this individual back and let army to execute him since Germany can't. Old lady of Germany have put her own job on line for these refugees and how much stick she is getting for it. Who ever does this sort of acts, must be taught a lesson with the same coin and let be known that its not acceptable and its a criminal to do that. Germans have opened their doors for these refugees well being they deserve better then this.


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## Russell

|Official Twitter feed of Berlin Police

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811186629595594752
They're particularly alert - so umm that's their roundabout way of saying - yeah...we're on the lookout for the actual terrorist? Yikes


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## Well.wisher

De Maizière also confirms that the man who has been arrested on suspicion of carrying out the attack has denied the charges.
He speaks balochi and there's a problem understanding him . 
The arrested man is from Pakistan, and arrived in Germany on 31 December 2015. He arrived in Berlin in February. The suspect spoke a dialect for which no translator could be found, the minister said.

De Maizière says he is not giving much attention to the Isis message claiming responsibility for the attack.

He confirms he will attend the vigil for the victims at 6pm in the memorial church on the square where the attack took place.

De Maizière said police will not rest until they have completed their investigation into the attack.

He urged once again for Christmas markets to remain open, but warned people to remain vigilant. He said it would be “a lovely idea to go to a Christmas market and buy a crib”.

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## Indus Pakistan

T-123456 said:


> *He was arrested but denied any involvement.*
> In Germany,you are innocent until proven guilty.
> Why would he deny the act if he did it?
> Couldnt it be that he is actually innocent?
> Wait for more info before making such a statement.


Mate, I said it before. It is possible there might be no Pakistani involved. It is too early to be 100% certain and as you said innocent until proven guilty. However the fact is Pakistan has a problem with Islamist radicals. This is fact. In fact the biggest problem that is in the way of Pakistan becoming a first world country within a generation is bloody Islamist radicalizm. Just last week a mob of 1,000 charged and attacked a Ahmadi place of worship inside Pakistan and the army had to be called out to secure the situation. People get killed in Pakistan for not being Muslim, for not being the right kind of sect, not being good Muslim, not living up to what is expected of a Muslim, for two Muslims not agreeing what a Muslim is, for endangering Muslims. It's insanity.

So maybe this incident is nothing to do with Pakistan and I hope so, I really do but all that does not change the fact that Pakistan has a big problem that needs acknowledging and sorting out.

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## Max

Pakistani embassy should cooperate and provide legal aid if the arrested guy is Pakistani and he is denying charges, 

let them first investigate, till now some are saying it was terrorist attack, some are saying its accident, some are saying Afghan, Polish, Pakistani..

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## Well.wisher

Windjammer said:


> It's a heinous crime at best of times even more brutal at this time of year.
> What's more disturbing and mind boggling is the fact that within a year of him arriving in Germany and getting refuge what made him turn into a mass murderer.
> Although he is just a suspect at the moment and there's no excuse for such menace but there are a many Afghans running around with Pakistani passports....,.,


German minister says he has no record of terrorism.


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## T-72

would it help if they changed the title to: 

*German Christmas market suspect is not the 23-year-old from Pakistan: Report *

lel

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## Selim I

Oh, if they figured that he was Pakistani, they don't have to label him as a terrorist. They don't need to investigate if he suffers from mental illness or has psychological issues.

He is a terrorist.

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## Signalian

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/

German police believe they arrested the wrong man over the Berlin terror attack and the real culprit could still be at large, a German newspaper has claimed, adding the real perpetrator could be armed and dangerous.

"We have the wrong man," an unnamed police source told Welt newspaper. "This means the situation is different. The real culprit is still armed and can commit further atrocities."

A man arrested on Monday night under suspicion of ploughing a 7-tonne truck through a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing 12, was named in German media reports as Naved Baluch, a 23-year-old asylum seeker of Pakistani origin. 

German media reported first that Baluch was denying responsibility for the attack and later - citing senior police sources - that he was the wrong man. This has not been officially confirmed.

Baluch was picked up about 2 kilometres (1½ miles) away from the scene of the attack in which 12 were, near the Victory Column monument.

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## Devil Soul

*BREAKING: German Police Say, They Have the Wrong Man*

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## Devil Soul

*WELT* ‏@welt  18m18 minutes ago




BREAKING: Berlin Police after #Berlinattacks: "We have the wrong man" http://to.welt.de/d9fKXpl

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## Devil Soul

*German police believe they wrongly arrested Pakistani refugee over Berlin attack*
By Reuters
Published: December 20, 2016
229SHARES
SHARE TWEET EMAIL
German police think that the man from Pakistan who was arrested as a suspect in the attack on a Berlin Christmas market that killed 12 people on Monday was not the actual perpetrator, _Die Welt_ newspaper reported, citing senior security sources.

“We have the wrong man,” said a senior police chief. “And therefore a new situation. The true perpetrator is still armed, at large and can cause fresh damage,” the paper quoted the source as saying.

Earlier, the man who plowed a truck into a crowded Christmas market was identified as a Pakistani refugee.

German newspaper _Bild_ cited security sources as saying the suspect in Berlin Christmas market incident was a 23-year-old from Pakistan named Naved B. He arrived in Germany a year ago. The suspect had a temporary residence permit since June 2016, German newspaper _Die Welt_ cited a criminal police report as saying.

*Nine killed as truck rams into Berlin Christmas market*

The Pakistani refugee is said to have arrived in the country in February 2016. However, the suspect believed to be the driver denied involvement in the attack, Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere.

“He denies the act,” de Maiziere told journalists, adding that the suspect is Pakistani and had arrived in Germany on December 31, 2015, seeking asylum.

*World reacts to Nice ‘terrorist’ attack*

Police said on Twitter that they had taken one suspect into custody and that another passenger from the truck had died as it crashed into people gathered around wooden huts serving mulled wine and sausages at the foot of the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church in the heart of former West Berlin. However, police said the nationality of the suspected driver, who fled the crash scene and was later arrested, was unclear.

Pictures from the scene showed Christmas decorations protruding from the smashed windscreen of the black truck. In the aftermath, it was resting lopsided on the pavement with a mangled Christmas tree beneath its wheels.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said the circumstances of the crash were still unclear, adding, “I don’t want to use the word ‘attack’ yet although a lot points to that.”

*Germany train attacker may be of Pakistani origin: authorities*

*Berlin police assume truck was deliberately driven into Christmas market*

Berlin police said on Tuesday that investigators assume the driver of a truck that ploughed into a crowd at a Berlin Christmas market, killing 12 people and injuring 48 others, did so intentionally in a suspected terrorist attack.

“Our investigators assume that the truck was deliberately steered into the crowd at the Christmas market at Breitscheidplatz,” police said on Twitter. “All police measures related to the suspected terrorist attack at Breitscheidplatz are progressing at full steam and with the necessary diligence,” police said.

The incident evoked memories of an attack in Nice, France in July when a Tunisian-born man drove a 19-tonne truck along the beach front, mowing down people who had gathered to watch the fireworks on Bastille Day, killing 86 people. That attack was claimed by Islamic State.

US President-elect Donald Trump condemned what he called an attack, linking it to “Islamist terrorists” before German police officials had said who was responsible.

The White House on Monday condemned what it called “what appears to have been a terrorist attack.”

Germany has not in recent years suffered a large-scale attack from militants like those seen in neighboring Belgium and France.

But it was shaken by two smaller attacks in Bavaria over the summer, one on a train near Wuerzburg and another at a music festival in Ansbach that wounded 20 people. Both were claimed by Islamic State.

And government officials have said the country, which accepted nearly 900,000 migrants last year, many from the war-torn Middle East, lies in the “crosshairs of terrorism.”

In mid-October, police arrested a Syrian refugee suspected of planning a bomb attack on an airport in Berlin. The 22-year-old man committed suicide in prison shortly after his arrest.

A government spokesperson said Chancellor Angela Merkel was briefed on the situation by de Maiziere and the Berlin mayor. Police said there were no indications of further dangerous situations in the area and urged people to stay away from the scene.

*German police kill Afghan teen after train axe attack*

“I’m deeply shaken about the horrible news of what occurred at the memorial church in Berlin,” Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Tuesday condemned the suspected mass terror attack. Extending his heartfelt condolences to the government and people of Germany, PM Nawaz said, “Pakistanis share the grief of German people and stand by them in this painful time. Terrorism is our common enemy and the world needs to put up a joint fight against this menace.”
**********************
*Berlin market attack: driver still at large after "wrong man arrested"*
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/


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## !eon

They are still not sure if the man they have captured is real driver.
It's also not clear whether the captured man is Pakistani or Afghani. He was probably born to Afghan refugee family in Pakistan. 
Considering the present day situation, it's possible that they just captured a brown, Arab looking man as culprit and real one skipped.


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## Areesh

No Pakistani involved??

Bharat main sog ka saman. Har ghar sai choriyaan tootnai ki awazain.

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## damm1t

Penguin said:


> What are you on about. There actually is LESS terrorism in Europe now, then the was e.g. the 1970s and 1980s. "We"in Europe (you know, that EU thingy the Turkey has wanted to join for decades) actually have a fairly good understanding of what terror is from those days.



Less terrorism than back 70's or 80's doesnt mean it will not increase dramatically in 2017 or next few years, Europe has never had continiously terrorism so don't tell me bullshit. I don't talk about IRA or ETA, I mean whole continent wide terrorism. By the way that EU thingy has no support in the public, shortly Turks give no shit about EU, nothing more than a political tool.


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## Devil Soul

*Ayman Mohyeldin* ‏@AymanM  2m2 minutes ago
Reports: Berlin Police believe the man in custody is not the truck driver who plowed through a Christmas market #berlin manhunt underway


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## Russell

maximuswarrior said:


> It is a mess. They have blundered from the word go. The whole story has took twists and turns from the word go.
> 
> It is an outrage they even have to mention that he is from a certain country. Mentioning a specific country looks like they are trying to malign a whole country.



You know how it is in the current media climate...no time to go slow and steady. Nothing stays quiet....they went with no confirmation of suspect nationality for a few hours - yet journalists were quoting unnamed sources with Pakistan/Afghanistan.

So - I understand why they did what they did....as for a country getting maligned - this is the world we live in today. Be it Pakistan or some other country - when it comes to muslim terrorists, we as muslims are all held to account..as immigrants and whatever the nation of origin may be. 

Just gotta take it on the chin and move on...

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## T-Faz

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> So what you are saying here is that a solution does not exist.



It does, but I don't know what it is. Something very difficult and damaging most likely.

The Pakistani guy is innocent anyway so let's see how this episode plays out.

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## Kabira

*German police think that the man from Pakistan who was arrested as a suspect in the attack on a Berlin Christmas market that killed 12 people on Monday was not the actual perpetrator, Die Welt newspaper reported, citing senior security sources.*

*“We have the wrong man,” said a senior police chief. “And therefore a new situation. The true perpetrator is still armed, at large and can cause fresh damage,” the paper quoted the source as saying.*

Earlier, the man who plowed a truck into a crowded Christmas market was identified as a Pakistani refugee.

German newspaper _Bild_ cited security sources as saying the suspect in Berlin Christmas market incident was a 23-year-old from Pakistan named Naved B. He arrived in Germany a year ago. The suspect had a temporary residence permit since June 2016, German newspaper _Die Welt_ cited a criminal police report as saying.

*Nine killed as truck rams into Berlin Christmas market*

The Pakistani refugee is said to have arrived in the country in February 2016. However, the suspect believed to be the driver denied involvement in the attack, Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere.

“He denies the act,” de Maiziere told journalists, adding that the suspect is Pakistani and had arrived in Germany on December 31, 2015, seeking asylum.

*World reacts to Nice ‘terrorist’ attack*

Police said on Twitter that they had taken one suspect into custody and that another passenger from the truck had died as it crashed into people gathered around wooden huts serving mulled wine and sausages at the foot of the Kaiser Wilhelm memorial church in the heart of former West Berlin. However, police said the nationality of the suspected driver, who fled the crash scene and was later arrested, was unclear.

Pictures from the scene showed Christmas decorations protruding from the smashed windscreen of the black truck. In the aftermath, it was resting lopsided on the pavement with a mangled Christmas tree beneath its wheels.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere said the circumstances of the crash were still unclear, adding, “I don’t want to use the word ‘attack’ yet although a lot points to that.”

*Germany train attacker may be of Pakistani origin: authorities*

*Berlin police assume truck was deliberately driven into Christmas market*

Berlin police said on Tuesday that investigators assume the driver of a truck that ploughed into a crowd at a Berlin Christmas market, killing 12 people and injuring 48 others, did so intentionally in a suspected terrorist attack.

“Our investigators assume that the truck was deliberately steered into the crowd at the Christmas market at Breitscheidplatz,” police said on Twitter. “All police measures related to the suspected terrorist attack at Breitscheidplatz are progressing at full steam and with the necessary diligence,” police said.

The incident evoked memories of an attack in Nice, France in July when a Tunisian-born man drove a 19-tonne truck along the beach front, mowing down people who had gathered to watch the fireworks on Bastille Day, killing 86 people. That attack was claimed by Islamic State.

US President-elect Donald Trump condemned what he called an attack, linking it to “Islamist terrorists” before German police officials had said who was responsible.

The White House on Monday condemned what it called “what appears to have been a terrorist attack.”

Germany has not in recent years suffered a large-scale attack from militants like those seen in neighboring Belgium and France.

But it was shaken by two smaller attacks in Bavaria over the summer, one on a train near Wuerzburg and another at a music festival in Ansbach that wounded 20 people. Both were claimed by Islamic State.

And government officials have said the country, which accepted nearly 900,000 migrants last year, many from the war-torn Middle East, lies in the “crosshairs of terrorism.”

In mid-October, police arrested a Syrian refugee suspected of planning a bomb attack on an airport in Berlin. The 22-year-old man committed suicide in prison shortly after his arrest.

A government spokesperson said Chancellor Angela Merkel was briefed on the situation by de Maiziere and the Berlin mayor. Police said there were no indications of further dangerous situations in the area and urged people to stay away from the scene.

*German police kill Afghan teen after train axe attack*

“I’m deeply shaken about the horrible news of what occurred at the memorial church in Berlin,” Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said.

Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif on Tuesday condemned the suspected mass terror attack. Extending his heartfelt condolences to the government and people of Germany, PM Nawaz said, “Pakistanis share the grief of German people and stand by them in this painful time. Terrorism is our common enemy and the world needs to put up a joint fight against this menace.”
http://tribune.com.pk/story/1268738/berlin-attacker-pakistani-refugee-german-media/

@Kaptaan

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## S.Y.A

*Berlin terror attack: Perpetrator 'still at large and has a weapon' as police admit they may not have arrested the right man*

German police believe they arrested the wrong man over the Berlin terror attack and the real culprit could still be at large, a German newspaper has claimed, adding the real perpetrator could be armed and dangerous.

"We have the wrong man," an unnamed police source told Welt newspaper. "This means the situation is different. The real culprit is still armed and can commit further atrocities."

A man arrested on Monday night under suspicion of ploughing a 7-tonne truck through a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing 12, was named in German media reports as Naved Baluch, a 23-year-old asylum seeker of Pakistani origin.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/

PS: named Baluch and an asylum seeker, must be a Balochi separatist.


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## Devil Soul

*Marvi Sirmed* ‏@marvisirmed  5m5 minutes ago
Marvi Sirmed Retweeted Zarrar Khuhro

Wonder what will Indian channels do who had started hyper 'tickering' on this so called Pakistani connection #GermanChristmasMarket

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## darksider

Breaking news
Pakistani is not involved in truck attack according to police.
Attacker still at large.


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## Devil Soul

*LIVE: Berlin terror attack: Perpetrator 'still at large and has a weapon' as police admit they may not have arrested the right man*


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## Penguin

maximuswarrior said:


> Neither can we say that he is a Pakistani so let's get that fact straight as well. Those that make false accusations without proper facts deserve criticism. I'm not going to calm down because we know how the Indians behave on this forum. They deserve this bashing because they are the ones who started blaming Pakistanis and acting like they are angels. It is for everyone to read. It is easy to hand out empty threats about suspicion and what not. Well, you get what you deserve.


I'm sure Die Welt would not have published that information if they didn't have a solid source for it. I don't doubt this Navid fellow is from Pakistan as Die Welt says, but it is always a wise precaution to await further confirmation e.g. from Pakistan's government before adding all sort of accusations en recriminations (although, realistically, you would have to also consider the possibility that this government has a motive to find otherwise)



maximuswarrior said:


> PS. Please tell those Indians to calm down who blame Pakistan. I'm not the one going around making false accusations.



I believe my exact words were: "So, let's all calm down and wait for more information."
Source: https://defence.pk/threads/german-c...m-pakistan-report.467809/page-7#ixzz4TNooqe9L



maximuswarrior said:


> Then, you tell me who is right? The source that you reported or CNN? There are a lot of conflicting reports.


I have more trust in Die Welt then CNN, frankly.


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## Devil Soul

German police believe they arrested the wrong man over the Berlin terror attack and the real culprit could still be at large, a German newspaper has claimed, adding the real perpetrator could be armed and dangerous.

*"We have the wrong man," an unnamed police source told Welt newspaper. "This means the situation is different. The real culprit is still armed and can commit further atrocities."*

A man arrested on Monday night under suspicion of ploughing a 7-tonne truck through a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing 12, was named in German media reports as Naved Baluch, a 23-year-old asylum seeker of Pakistani origin.


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## VCheng

T-Faz said:


> It does, but I don't know what it is. Something very difficult and damaging most likely.
> 
> The Pakistani guy is innocent anyway so let's see how this episode plays out.



A solution that is impossible to implement effectively, or a solution that is is implementable but not effective, is not really a solution, Sir, to the grave issues faced by Pakistan.

As I always say, let us wait for the investigation to complete, for the present incident.


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## Kabira

Good thing he's not a Pakistani. I know what you are thinking but but he was moozlim. No its not the same thing. I'm glad Pakistanis had little to do with recent attack all over Europe.

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## Indus Pakistan

Great news guy's. It looks like it was not a Pakistani. After the incident the police could have scooped up Naved Baluch just because of his ethnicity. Things like this happen when you have such high tension. Great news not of course in anyway changing the death of the innocents but at least no Pakistani was involved.


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## Bharat Muslim

I TOLD YOU SO!!!!


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## Devil Soul

*Berlin attack: Police uncertain detained suspect drove lorry*

11 minutes ago 
German police say they are unsure if a man they have in custody was behind Monday's lorry attack in Berlin that killed 12 and wounded 48 others.

*"It is in fact uncertain whether that really was the driver," Berlin police head Klaus Kandt said on Tuesday.*

*The man detained, who has denied involvement, arrived in Germany from Pakistan at the end of last year.*

He was captured in a park 2km away after reportedly fleeing the popular Christmas market in west Berlin.

Mrs Merkel has vowed to punish those responsible for the Berlin attack "as harshly as the law requires".
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38379157


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## maximuswarrior

Penguin said:


> I'm sure Die Welt would not have published that information if they didn't have a solid source for it. I don't doubt this Navid fellow is from Pakistan as Die Welt says, but it is always a wise precaution to await further confirmation e.g. from Pakistan's government before adding all sort of accusations en recriminations (although, realistically, you would have to also consider the possibility that this government has a motive to find otherwise)
> 
> 
> 
> I believe my exact words were: "So, let's all calm down and wait for more information."
> Source: https://defence.pk/threads/german-c...m-pakistan-report.467809/page-7#ixzz4TNooqe9L
> 
> 
> I have more trust in Die Welt then CNN, frankly.



Not very reassuring to be honest. The Germans aren't dealing with this in a proper fashion and that is my opinion. Naming suspects etc. when investigations are still ongoing isn't the best tactic. Who the heck even cares whether he/she belongs to a certain country? All that should matter is gathering the facts and dealing with the investigation as professionally as possible. This hasn't been very professional. On the contrary, Pakistanis naturally feel uncomfortable when their country is named is such a fashion as the German police/intelligence have done.

We mourn for the dead and we condemn the attack in the strongest manner, but I hope that Pakistan takes this up diplomatically.


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## Doctor-D

This is so wrong if he was arrested without any strong evidence and the man responsible is still out there. Might be a psycopath just like the Nice attack.

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## T-123456

Kaptaan said:


> Great news guy's. It looks like it was not a Pakistani. After the incident the police could have scooped up Naved Baluch just because of his ethnicity. Things like this happen when you have such high tension. Great news not of course in anyway changing the death of the innocents but at least no Pakistani was involved.


Pakistanis in Germany/Netherlands/Belgium dont care for terrorism,they are hard working people minding their own business.
Next time,we should think about that before making assumptions.

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## barbarosa

Kaptaan said:


> Great news guy's. It looks like it was not a Pakistani. After the incident the police could have scooped up Naved Baluch just because of his ethnicity. Things like this happen when you have such high tension. Great news not of course in anyway changing the death of the innocents but at least no Pakistani was involved.


Thanks God.


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## Penguin

damm1t said:


> Less terrorism than back 70's or 80's doesnt mean it will not increase dramatically in 2017 or next few years, Europe has never had continiously terrorism so don't tell me bullshit. I don't talk about IRA or ETA, I mean whole continent wide terrorism.


Continuous terrorism: I think you forgot the troubles in Ireland spanned 1858-2011. And, since Turkey isn't a continent, Turkey hasn't experienced continent wide terrorism either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism#Europe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_terrorism#Europe_2



damm1t said:


> By the way that EU thingy has no support in the public, shortly Turks give no shit about EU, nothing more than a political tool.


I see, hence you are so upset about that remark, I presume?


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## Skywalker

Guys lets not forget 9 innocent people have lost their lives due to this heinous act, our thoughts are with the families lies of the victims. Pakistani or not people should not make assumptions out of this, as far as indiots are concerned nobody takes them and their immature media seriously.


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## Russell

Skywalker said:


> Guys lets not forget *9 innocent people* have lost their lives due to this heinous act, our thoughts are with the families lies of the victims. Pakistani or not people should not make assumptions out of this, as far as indiots are concerned nobody takes them and their immature media seriously.


12


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## Mujraparty

deleted


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## T-123456

Well.wisher said:


> This guy @Kaptaan is trying to blame everything on islamic radicalism but the main problem of our soceity is intolerance and worrior-mind.


Can you give an example of this intolerance?


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## Indus Pakistan

Well.wisher said:


> This guy @Kaptaan is trying to blame everything on islamic radicalism but the main problem of our soceity is intolerance and worrior-mind.


Yes it is. Intolerance is by product of Islamic radicalizm. I am glad that there was no Pakistani involved in this incident but that does not by the slightest detract from or change anything I said. There are one to many incidents across the world where infortuately people of Pakistan extraction or from Pakistan are involved and I won't even go into the extemist radical Islam that is tearing the guts out of Pakistan inside the country - who are Pak Army fighting? Athiests, Communists or Buddhists? Every second day some Mullah is giving out threats or fatwas against another group.

So don't use this change of narrative as bridge to escape from the thrust of what I said - it still stands and is visible to all.


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## Indus Pakistan

save_ghenda said:


> I'll put the blame on concept of Ummah in Islam. While political muslim world is divided at large but there are always some lone dimwits with in muslims who will think along those lines. That Turk wasn't thinking about Russia-Turkey relations when he murdered Russian ambassador.


Spot on 100%. Remarkable thing is the Turks are now also getting infected.

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## YeBeWarned

Afghans coming to Pakistan and taking Pakistani Passport and doing stuff all around the world .. people think they are Pakistani .. Sad for this guy, and i hope whoever the real Culprit is must be hanged by BaLLs

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## hussain0216

wrongful arrest equals compensation $$$


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## Saifullah Sani

*The Berlin police chief said on Tuesday it was not clear if the Pakistani man arrested after a deadly trunk rampage at a Christmas market was the driver of the vehicle.*

"As far as I know it is in fact uncertain whether that really was the driver," said Berlin Police President Klaus Kandt.

Berlin police said on Twitter that they were being vigilant as the suspect had denied involvement in the incident, which police have said was a deliberate attack.

"The temporary arrested suspect denies the offense," Berlin police tweeted in English. "Therefore we are particularly alert. Please be also alert," they urged the public.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...a01&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Saifullah Sani said:


> *The Berlin police chief said on Tuesday it was not clear if the Pakistani man arrested after a deadly trunk rampage at a Christmas market was the driver of the vehicle.*
> 
> "As far as I know it is in fact uncertain whether that really was the driver," said Berlin Police President Klaus Kandt.
> 
> Berlin police said on Twitter that they were being vigilant as the suspect had denied involvement in the incident, which police have said was a deliberate attack.
> 
> "The temporary arrested suspect denies the offense," Berlin police tweeted in English. "Therefore we are particularly alert. Please be also alert," they urged the public.
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...a01&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook



They have to relate finger prints to the guy driving truck , if these don't match then it was just a case of randomly picking up a "man" a colored man from park.

By the way Pakistan government has not indicated the person was Pakistani since it was also reported it was a afghan refugee

1- Doubts over afghan refugee or Pakistani
2- Petty criminal description - Yet was not deported , folks get deported for crimes
3- Passport / Data not hsared on birth certificate / passport from Pakistan / family tree
4- Viral Networks are running with news with out Pakistani Government's acknowledgement of his nationality

Now doubts over his involvement in crime !!! The police itself said it openly 


Government of Pakistan should sue newspapers and international media for using unvarfied information
The viral networks have spread this news over 100-300 news/ blog / network sites

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## maximuswarrior

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> They have to relate finger prints to the guy driving truck , if these don't match then it was just a case of randomly picking up a "man" a colored man from park.
> 
> By the way Pakistan government has not indicated the person was Pakistani since it was also reported it was a afghan refugee
> 
> 1- Doubts over afghan refugee or Pakistani
> 2- Petty criminal description - Yet was not deported , folks get deported for crimes
> 3- Passport / Data not hsared on birth certificate / passport from Pakistan / family tree
> 4- Viral Networks are running with news with out Pakistani Government's acknowledgement of his nationality
> 
> Now doubts over his involvement in crime !!! The police itself said it openly
> 
> 
> Government of Pakistan should sue newspapers and international media for using unvarfied information
> The viral networks have spread this news over 100-300 news/ blog / network sites



Pakistan has been handing out Pakistani passports like hotcakes to Afghans. This is going to hurt Pakistan in the long run. There are some Afghans that I personally know who have the Pakistani passport in possession in The Netherlands. I know them personally and they are acquaintances.


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## Saifullah Sani

*Xmas market attacker a 'Pakistani', says German interior minister*

*German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere on Tuesday said the suspect of the Xmas market attack is a Pakistani who had arrived in Germany seeking asylum.*

Authorities arrested the suspect about 2 kilometers (1 miles) from the crash site on suspicion of having been at the wheel of the truck.

The suspect, however, has denied involvement in the attack, the interior minister said.
“He denies the act,” de Maiziere told journalists, adding that the suspect is Pakistani and had arrived in Germany on December 31, 2015, seeking asylum.

His request was still pending, the minister said, adding that Monday's bloodshed had so far not been claimed by the militant Islamic State group or any other militant group.

De Maiziere said however: “We have no doubt that this terrible event was an attack.”

*Police chief casts doubt*

Berlin's police chief also voiced doubt that the detained Pakistani man was behind the deadly truck rampage, which would mean the perpetrator remains at large.
“It is indeed uncertain he was the driver,” Klaus Kandt told a press conference.
“The initial evidence has been limited”, said the police chief.

*Europe divided*

The mass influx of migrants and refugees to the European Union has deeply divided its 28 members and fuelled the rise of populist anti-immigration movements that hope to capitalise on public concerns next year in elections in France, Germany and the Netherlands.

On Tuesday morning, investigators removed the black truck from the site for forensic examination. People left flowers at the scene and notes, one of which read: “Keep on living, Berliners!”

One woman was crying as she stopped by the flowers.
Berlin police are investigating leads that the truck had been stolen from a construction site in Poland.

Authorities said a Polish man was found shot dead inside the vehicle, but minister de Maiziere said no gun had yet been found.

Bild newspaper cited security sources as saying the suspect was named Naved B. and had arrived in Germany a year ago. In legal cases German officials routinely withhold the full name of suspects, using only an initial.

Local broadcaster rbb cited security sources as saying the man came to Germany via Passau, a city on the Austrian border, on Dec. 31, 2015.

Die Welt said police special forces stormed a hangar at Berlin's defunct Tempelhof airport at around 4am . It said, without citing its sources, that the arrested man was registered there.
A refugee there who gave his name only as Ahmed told Reuters security guards had told him there was a raid at around 4am.

Prosecutors declined to immediately comment on the report.

*'Fear of evil'*

Merkel and de Maiziere both stressed the need for Germans to remain uncowed by the attack.
“We do not want to live paralysed by the fear of evil,” said the chancellor, who discussed the attack by phone with US President Barack Obama and convened a meeting of her security cabinet.

“Even if it is difficult in these hours, we will find the strength for the life we want to live in Germany - free, together and open.”

Other European countries said they were reviewing security.
Austrian Interior Minister Wolfgang Sobotka said he had told the heads of regional police forces to intensify surveillance measures.

He called for biometric and fingerprint checks to be introduced along the Balkan route travelled by many migrants arriving in Europe, in order to better control foreign militant fighters' movements.

London police said they were reviewing their plans for protecting public events over the festive period.

Flags hung at half-mast around Germany on Tuesday and Berlin Christmas markets were closed for the day out of respect.

The German soccer league announced a minute's silence at all matches on Tuesday and Wednesday, at which players will wear black ribbons.

Dresden tourist information service said authorities had erected concrete blocks around the Striezelmarkt, one of Germany's oldest Christmas markets, to increase security.
Festive markets selling ornate, often hand-crafted decorations, seasonal foods and hot spiced wine are a beloved tradition in Germany.

Manfred Weber, head of the centre-right European People's Party, said: “It's not an attack on a country; it's an attack on our way of life, on the free society in which we are allowed to live.”
Twelve people were killed in the assault at a shopping district popular with tourists, and 48 people injured, including 18 who are severely wounded.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1303453/xmas-market-attacker-a-pakistani-says-german-interior-minister


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## Well.wisher

Kaptaan said:


> Yes it is. Intolerance is by product of Islamic radicalizm. I am glad that there was no Pakistani involved in this incident but that does not by the slightest detract from or change anything I said. There are one to many incidents across the world where infortuately people of Pakistan extraction or from Pakistan are involved and I won't even go into the extemist radical Islam that is tearing the guts out of Pakistan inside the country - who are Pak Army fighting? Athiests, Communists or Buddhists? Every second day some Mullah is giving out threats or fatwas against another group.
> 
> So don't use this change of narrative as bridge to escape from the thrust of what I said - it still stands and is visible to all.



How are actions of mullahs or terrorists fighting with pak army has to do something with our nation's concept of islamic radicalism? 
We have been fighting with those who were created by our politicians. 
Whole world was messed up after 9/11 so were we . We were having a peaceful islamic doceity before this . How can be our basic concept be held responsible for this all mess on whom we got this beautiful land . 

If politics interfere in an islamic matter , then it all becomes just self serving . If there wasn't interference of politics , our concept of Islamic radicalism would've been a shining example for whole world . 

The soceity of pakistan is trapped with numerous problems , lack of education , lack of tolerance toward other opinions , poverty, corruption . That's what been causing us a serious blockage , it has nothing to do with our real concept of this nation .


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## maximuswarrior

Saifullah Sani said:


> *Xmas market attacker a 'Pakistani', says German interior minister*
> 
> *German Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere on Tuesday said the suspect of the Xmas market attack is a Pakistani who had arrived in Germany seeking asylum.*
> 
> Authorities arrested the suspect about 2 kilometers (1 miles) from the crash site on suspicion of having been at the wheel of the truck.
> 
> The suspect, however, has denied involvement in the attack, the interior minister said.
> “He denies the act,” de Maiziere told journalists, adding that the suspect is Pakistani and had arrived in Germany on December 31, 2015, seeking asylum.
> 
> His request was still pending, the minister said, adding that Monday's bloodshed had so far not been claimed by the militant Islamic State group or any other militant group.
> 
> De Maiziere said however: “We have no doubt that this terrible event was an attack.”
> 
> *Police chief casts doubt*
> 
> Berlin's police chief also voiced doubt that the detained Pakistani man was behind the deadly truck rampage, which would mean the perpetrator remains at large.
> *“It is indeed uncertain he was the driver,” Klaus Kandt told a press conference.*
> *“The initial evidence has been limited”, said the police chief.*
> 
> *Europe divided*
> 
> The mass influx of migrants and refugees to the European Union has deeply divided its 28 members and fuelled the rise of populist anti-immigration movements that hope to capitalise on public concerns next year in elections in France, Germany and the Netherlands.
> 
> On Tuesday morning, investigators removed the black truck from the site for forensic examination. People left flowers at the scene and notes, one of which read: “Keep on living, Berliners!”
> 
> One woman was crying as she stopped by the flowers.
> Berlin police are investigating leads that the truck had been stolen from a construction site in Poland.
> 
> Authorities said a Polish man was found shot dead inside the vehicle, but minister de Maiziere said no gun had yet been found.
> 
> Bild newspaper cited security sources as saying the suspect was named Naved B. and had arrived in Germany a year ago. In legal cases German officials routinely withhold the full name of suspects, using only an initial.
> 
> Local broadcaster rbb cited security sources as saying the man came to Germany via Passau, a city on the Austrian border, on Dec. 31, 2015.
> 
> Die Welt said police special forces stormed a hangar at Berlin's defunct Tempelhof airport at around 4am . It said, without citing its sources, that the arrested man was registered there.
> A refugee there who gave his name only as Ahmed told Reuters security guards had told him there was a raid at around 4am.
> 
> Prosecutors declined to immediately comment on the report.
> 
> *'Fear of evil'*
> 
> Merkel and de Maiziere both stressed the need for Germans to remain uncowed by the attack.
> “We do not want to live paralysed by the fear of evil,” said the chancellor, who discussed the attack by phone with US President Barack Obama and convened a meeting of her security cabinet.
> 
> “Even if it is difficult in these hours, we will find the strength for the life we want to live in Germany - free, together and open.”
> 
> Other European countries said they were reviewing security.
> Austrian Interior Minister Wolfgang Sobotka said he had told the heads of regional police forces to intensify surveillance measures.
> 
> He called for biometric and fingerprint checks to be introduced along the Balkan route travelled by many migrants arriving in Europe, in order to better control foreign militant fighters' movements.
> 
> London police said they were reviewing their plans for protecting public events over the festive period.
> 
> Flags hung at half-mast around Germany on Tuesday and Berlin Christmas markets were closed for the day out of respect.
> 
> The German soccer league announced a minute's silence at all matches on Tuesday and Wednesday, at which players will wear black ribbons.
> 
> Dresden tourist information service said authorities had erected concrete blocks around the Striezelmarkt, one of Germany's oldest Christmas markets, to increase security.
> Festive markets selling ornate, often hand-crafted decorations, seasonal foods and hot spiced wine are a beloved tradition in Germany.
> 
> Manfred Weber, head of the centre-right European People's Party, said: “It's not an attack on a country; it's an attack on our way of life, on the free society in which we are allowed to live.”
> Twelve people were killed in the assault at a shopping district popular with tourists, and 48 people injured, including 18 who are severely wounded.
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1303453/xmas-market-attacker-a-pakistani-says-german-interior-minister



They are constantly relating it with Pakistan. The ridiculous thing is that their police chief says that they don't even know whether this "Pakistani" guy was the actual lorry driver. They probably picked him up somewhere as a suspect.

Now imagine such headlines trending all over the world. What will this do for Pakistan? No one will even care afterwards if it turns out whether the culprit wasn't a Pakistani. The first accusations are always the most damaging. The damage seems to be done already.


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## Well.wisher

Kaptaan said:


> Spot on 100%. Remarkable thing is the Turks are now also getting infected.



@save_ghenda . You can blame the politicians who corrupted this concept but the ummah concept in whole ,is a realistic and beautiful concept .

It can be a great advantage to all muslims if only we learn to play wisely and also taking our interests in consideration too.


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## Indus Pakistan

Well.wisher said:


> You can blame the politicians who corrupted this concept but the ummah concept in whole ,is a realistic and beautiful concept .
> It can be a great advantage to all muslims if only we learn to play wisely and also taking our interests in consideration too.


Having no borders. Having no nationalties. Having all the worlds wealth divided equally amongst all humans. Forgive and forget. Having no divisions between all humans is even more beautiful concept. It's called humanism.

And ever bothered to read what communism preaches? Equality for all humans in law, in rights, in wealth. As theoretical concepts I can think of half a dozen that are far better. It is *practice* that makes something. We can all dream up pie in the skies ....

Hell even John Lennon dreamed up mind bending concepts ...

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## YeBeWarned

Not a Pakistani German Police confirmed .. Saw it on BBC/CNN .. 
to all Indians and @MarkusS people should not be too judgmental when it comes to Terrorist and act of Terrorism , Even if he was a Pakistan i would still wish that Germans would have taken him out like a Savage, i have some very very very Good Friends in Germany and from them i heard about this incident , Europeans need to understand that someone is pushing them into this war so this clash becomes more about Ideologies , The Far right Extremist and ISIS has one thing in common, they both use dead for Propaganda in order motivate people to get into a fight ..ISIS will love European to bomb or invade any Arab Country following the Attacks on them so they can recruit more , you can't fight when people are motivated by religion plus if you keep giving them reason to recruit more and more people to fight, same theory goes to Europeans , if the Right wing keep motivate and scare tact to kick out or kill Muslims for the likes of this Douche bag than it wont solve anything but complicate it more ..

Can we just say that Europe can Deport all Muslims ? NO but lets say they do , but can those Europeans promise that after that they will not interfere or involved in any War which will be against any Muslim Country ? both parties know they cant so they are doing just politics .. those who died were innocent don't do politics over the dead man it is disgusting .

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## Mrc

Sky is saying the real culprit is atlarge...

http://news.sky.com/story/berlin-christmas-market-suspect-may-still-be-at-large-10702930


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## Well.wisher

T-123456 said:


> Can you give an example of this intolerance?



Intolerance is a characteristic of our pakistan soceity .
We're intolerant toward religions , ethinicity and racially . 
Our politicians even are intolerant toward each other's criticism .


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## Mage

Well.wisher said:


> Intolerance is a characteristic of our pakistan soceity .
> We're intolerant toward religions , ethinicity and racially .


Every society has their share of intolerant folks


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

The Pakistani arrested had denied the charges. 
Police also thinks the real culprit is some one else.
the Pakistani was arrested near that place. not near or inside truck.

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## Well.wisher

Kaptaan said:


> Having no borders. Having no nationalties. Having all the worlds wealth divided equally amongst all humans. Forgive and forget. Having no divisions between all humans is even more beautiful concept. It's called humanism.
> 
> And ever bothered to read what communism preaches? Equality for all humans in law, in rights, in wealth. As theoretical concepts I can think of half a dozen that are far better. It is *practice* that makes something. We can all dream up pie in the skies ....
> 
> Hell even John Lennon dreamed up mind bending concepts ...



Humanism is no different than islamic concept of muslim ummah .
Free of racism , nationalties , giving wealth to the poor one , forgiving forgetting , focusing on whole community's advantages rather than one person , concentrating on justice etc . 

Nowadays , we need to work on muslim concept of ummah as it's the only resort that can end up all sunni shia conflicts especially in syria etc , it's an urgent need of muslim ummah . 
In past OIC and arab helped us a lot. 

However, I appreciate your communism system . If both muslim ummah and communism prevails in a soceity , we'll defeat all problems . 

You can dream of communism and I dream of muslim ummah concept , not much issue .



Philia said:


> Every society has their share of intolerant folks


Sure it has .
And we need to work on ours . Ours is much higher . 

Here people get killed for being a Punjabi in balochistan, being shia deserves death , being a woman we also face intolerance toward our freedom , politicians kill each other for differences . Etc etc 

Intolerance is the root cause not islamic radicalism.

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## Khafee

People are conveniently forgetting a fact:

The said perpetrator has a track record, for getting in trouble with the law. The truck was carrying steel beams, which could easily be worth +/- Euro100k. This could very well be a case of truck hijacking gone wrong.

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## terry5

Kaptaan said:


> Having no borders. Having no nationalties. Having all the worlds wealth divided equally amongst all humans. Forgive and forget. Having no divisions between all humans is even more beautiful concept. It's called humanism.
> 
> And ever bothered to read what communism preaches? Equality for all humans in law, in rights, in wealth. As theoretical concepts I can think of half a dozen that are far better. It is *practice* that makes something. We can all dream up pie in the skies ....
> 
> Hell even John Lennon dreamed up mind bending concepts ...



 looney alert 
you post like a white man  your thinking's of a white man have you ever been to Pakistan 

John Lennon lol 

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
And no religion, too

aethiest national anthem

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## H!TchHiker

Here is classic from Trump
"He added: “Isis and other *Islamist terrorists continually slaughter Christians *in their communities and places of worship as part of their global jihad."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...blame-latest-news-updates-lorry-a7485936.html


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## YeBeWarned

Khafee said:


> People are conveniently forgetting a fact:
> 
> The said perpetrator has a track record, for getting in trouble with the law. The truck was carrying steel beams, which could easily be worth +/- Euro100k. This could very well be a case of truck hijacking gone wrong.



Bro whenever there is a Attack and a Muslim Involved the Rational part of their minds go off ..
Muslim Killed someone in West --- Terrorist
Muslim got Killed in west --- Isolated Incident or Lone wolf 
Muslims do hate crime/Speech against someone in west --- They are taking over / Shariah is coming 
Hate crimes / Speech against Muslims --- Everyone has Freedom of Speech

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## Khafee

German police have said they may have* arrested the wrong man* over the Berlin terror attack, and the real culprit could still be at large and armed and dangerous.

"We have the wrong man," an unnamed police source told Welt newspaper. "This means the situation is different. The real culprit is still armed and can commit further atrocities."

The man arrested on Monday night under suspicion of ploughing a 7-tonne truck through a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing 12, was named in German media reports as Naved Baluch, a 23-year-old asylum seeker of Pakistani origin. 

Baluch has denied involvement in the attack, according to police.

He was picked up about 2 kilometres (1½ miles) away from the scene of the attack, near the Victory Column monument.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/


*Blood and DNA inside truck 'does not match arrested man'*
German police say a 23-year-old suspect arrested last night may not have been the attacker and his blood and *DNA does not match* samples found inside the truck.

Police believe it is increasingly likely last night’s attacker is still at large.

It comes after tests on the truck used in the attack show blood and DNA inside does not match the 23-year-old refugee arrested in the aftermath of the attack.

Chief prosecutor Peter Frank said authorities are keeping an open mind on whether the attacker had a Muslim background.

He said: “From the chosen target and behaviour of the perpetrator, you can infer an Islamist motive. But we must continue to investigate in all directions.”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/berlin-terror-attack-live-updates-9486959

*Pakistani haters can now shut their traps, tuck their tails between their legs and slither off!!! *

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

500 News websites went viral that the man was Pakistani for 24 hours and then they find it was the wrong man


False claim it was Pakistani when it was doubtful , as it was also claimed he was afghan
No proof of Passport / Citizenship or Birth Certificate was provided (ZERO)
Guy was in records for petty crime , yet never deported 

All the major world news sites (mainly in usa , claimed it was PAKISTANI) 

Viral network spreads the news on facebook, all the viral sites
End result ? Nothing

GOP need to start sending sue letters to some of these newspaper and their journalistic blunders
Seems like they eliminated the position of Cheif editor that monitors the quality and legality of the claims in News paper

This News and viral network war on Turkey / Pakistan is becoming more and more clear

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## duhastmish

This is ridiculous pakistani man was just made a scapegoat irrespective of fact if he is tax payer or student.
They got asylum seekers by choice. Now they better take care of these guys and dont blame their acts on other individuals.


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## hussain0216

Kaptaan said:


> Having no borders. Having no nationalties. Having all the worlds wealth divided equally amongst all humans. Forgive and forget. Having no divisions between all humans is even more beautiful concept. It's called humanism.
> 
> And ever bothered to read what communism preaches? Equality for all humans in law, in rights, in wealth. As theoretical concepts I can think of half a dozen that are far better. It is *practice* that makes something. We can all dream up pie in the skies ....
> 
> Hell even John Lennon dreamed up mind bending concepts ...



Why would we bother with humanism? We have islam

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## maximuswarrior

Khafee said:


> German police have said they may have* arrested the wrong man* over the Berlin terror attack, and the real culprit could still be at large and armed and dangerous.
> 
> "We have the wrong man," an unnamed police source told Welt newspaper. "This means the situation is different. The real culprit is still armed and can commit further atrocities."
> 
> The man arrested on Monday night under suspicion of ploughing a 7-tonne truck through a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing 12, was named in German media reports as Naved Baluch, a 23-year-old asylum seeker of Pakistani origin.
> 
> Baluch has denied involvement in the attack, according to police.
> 
> He was picked up about 2 kilometres (1½ miles) away from the scene of the attack, near the Victory Column monument.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
> 
> 
> *Blood and DNA inside truck 'does not match arrested man'*
> German police say a 23-year-old suspect arrested last night may not have been the attacker and his blood and *DNA does not match* samples found inside the truck.
> 
> Police believe it is increasingly likely last night’s attacker is still at large.
> 
> It comes after tests on the truck used in the attack show blood and DNA inside does not match the 23-year-old refugee arrested in the aftermath of the attack.
> 
> Chief prosecutor Peter Frank said authorities are keeping an open mind on whether the attacker had a Muslim background.
> 
> He said: “From the chosen target and behaviour of the perpetrator, you can infer an Islamist motive. But we must continue to investigate in all directions.”
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/berlin-terror-attack-live-updates-9486959
> 
> *Pakistani haters can now shut their traps, tuck their tails between their legs and slither off!!! *



This was pretty much well planned. The Germans thought they had their man after nabbing some random "Pakistani" guy as it turns out. You can sense that since then the news has died out. They are now looking for new clues. No one has claimed responsibility thus far and that is strange after such a prolific attack. It is very unusual.

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## Khafee

hussain0216 said:


> Why would we bother with humanism? We have islam


Because we don't understand Islam, and have no clue about it's basics, hence are ashamed of it.

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## Indus Pakistan

hussain0216 said:


> Why would we bother with humanism? We have islam


Okay look at the model below.

Theoretical concept > Practice > Reality


Anything is always measured by the* reality*. That what you see on the ground, the tangible product and what results it produces. This is the test we widely use on everything. If you talk to Communists they will impress you with the utopia at end of their rainbow. Equality in ever manner possible. However that only remains a theoretical concept in the Communist Manifesto. Once it was practiced the ugly reality was Soviet Union. We use Soviet Union and others to gauge how good Communism was.

Capitalism as a theoretical concept in books on the subject promises utopia . I think we can use USA as the practice of that concept and you see the reality. Now if you use USA or Soviet Union to carry out a critical analysis to see the flaws the capitalists will retort "Oh no capitalism is* perfect* but USA is not practicing *TRUE* capitalism". You speak with the comminist and he will retort "Oh no communism is *perfect* it was just that Soviet Union did not practice *TRUE *communism".

Now if I asked you leaving asides the theoretical concepts because all adherants of all systems claim perfection can you please furnish me reality that I can judge Islam by? Try not to take me before my great, great, great grandad was born as that becomes rather difficult to measure.

It is the practical manifestion in* reality *that matters. That's why my sorry a*ss is sat in UK along with another million odd Muslims - more would come if only they could hide in the trucks or swim across the sea. Because utopian ideas, utopian preaching, in utopian writing don't feed me, my kids or my family.


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## Well.wisher

terry5 said:


> looney alert
> you post like a white man  your thinking's of a white man have you ever been to Pakistan
> 
> John Lennon lol
> 
> Imagine there's no heaven
> It's easy if you try
> No hell below us
> Above us only sky
> And no religion, too
> 
> aethiest national anthem



Imagine there's no gays .

All Atheists arguments and liberalism go in futile .

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## Indus Pakistan

maximuswarrior said:


> This was pretty much well planned.


I don't think it was planned. After the incident panic set in and anything with slight tan was suspect. This guy happened to be walking and of course straight away it was like "Oh it iz him" and that was it. P{retty similar to how when crap happens in Pakistan the nearest Christian guy or Ahmadi is pulled in. Questions to be asked later of course.

What I am hoping is that the Polish driver had some time on his hands and decided to open a bottle of Vodkha this being Christmas season and all. He then let his mate to drive who of course ended up losing control with catastrophic results. The driver then legged it. Seems tad far stretched but wishes, wishes ....




Well.wisher said:


> Imagine there's no gays .


I have seen dogs with higher coefficient then you and your mate who I will wager good money on is living in UK while dreaming for Palestine @terry5


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## Mage

Well.wisher said:


> Humanism is no different than islamic concept of muslim ummah .
> Free of racism , nationalties , giving wealth to the poor one , forgiving forgetting , focusing on whole community's advantages rather than one person , concentrating on justice etc .
> 
> Nowadays , we need to work on muslim concept of ummah as it's the only resort that can end up all sunni shia conflicts especially in syria etc , it's an urgent need of muslim ummah .
> In past OIC and arab helped us a lot.
> 
> However, I appreciate your communism system . If both muslim ummah and communism prevails in a soceity , we'll defeat all problems .
> 
> You can dream of communism and I dream of muslim ummah concept , not much issue .
> 
> 
> Sure it has .
> And we need to work on ours . Ours is much higher .
> 
> Here people get killed for being a Punjabi in balochistan, being shia deserves death , being a woman we also face intolerance toward our freedom , politicians kill each other for differences . Etc etc
> 
> Intolerance is the root cause not islamic radicalism.


Right now the situation Muslim countries are in, a united ummah would be a disaster. First there has to be some work done on the differences. I see Muslims of one sect considers their brand of Islam.is the only true form and others are going to hell. I see Arab brats partying all nights yet looking down on other Muslims. A unity with this kind of mindset will only worsen the problems. 

For a Muslim ummah some countries need to be on the same page. They are: KSA, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan & Indonesia.

And here we have KSA who are controlled by USA and hates Shia and Iran more than anything. 

Turkey who'd rather join EU than forming a Muslim ummah. 

Iran, have enemies everywhere. Sanctioned by everyone. Hated by KSA.

Pakistan, And Indonesia might be on the same page if others agree. But with the amount of distrust and hatred among the other three an ummah is never going to work.


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## Indus Pakistan

And I see my mate the Mod @waz here. When I said I have seen dogs with higher coefficient" I meant 'reflex coefficient" that is ability to respond to external stimuli which is a proven fact. Just to clarify in case I fractured some rule here at PDF.



> I have seen dogs with higher coefficient then you and your mate who I will wager good money on is living in UK while dreaming for Palestine@ @terry5


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## WhyCry

BERLIN — A terrorist attack using a tractor-trailer to plow through a crowded Christmas market in central Berlin left Germans stunned and shocked on Tuesday, and the authorities scrambling to determine who was behind the nation’s bloodiest assault in decades.

The aftermath of the attack mixed a strong sense of mourning with anger on the right and a dawning nationwide realization that Germany, too, now counted itself among the front ranks of European countries, alongside France and Belgium, that have suffered large-scale attacks in recent years.

Early in the day, a somber chancellor, Angela Merkel, dressed in black, acknowledged what people across Europe had been fearing with the approach of the holiday season: One of the Continent’s ubiquitous Christmas markets appeared to have been targeted for assault, killing 12 and injuring dozens.

“We must assume at the current time that it was a terrorist attack,” Ms. Merkel told reporters on Tuesday.

She later appeared in a black wool coat, bearing a white rose to lay at a memorial outside of the church in the heart of western Berlin, where a traditional holiday market was transformed into a scene of carnage late Monday.

Even as she was mourning, Peter Frank, the country’s federal prosecutor, insisted that while the similarities to last summer’s Bastille Day attack in Nice, France, led his office to suspect that the Berlin attack was motivated by terrorism, he was unable to produce any hard evidence.

A 23-year-old Pakistani was detained roughly an hour after the attack, but through the day German authorities mixed habitual caution with what appeared to be growing uncertainty that the young man, who may have entered the country seeking asylum last December, was indeed the driver of the truck.


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## Khafee

Dev Destroyer said:


> BERLIN — A terrorist attack using a tractor-trailer to plow through a crowded Christmas market in central Berlin left Germans stunned and shocked on Tuesday, and the authorities scrambling to determine who was behind the nation’s bloodiest assault in decades.
> 
> The aftermath of the attack mixed a strong sense of mourning with anger on the right and a dawning nationwide realization that Germany, too, now counted itself among the front ranks of European countries, alongside France and Belgium, that have suffered large-scale attacks in recent years.
> 
> Early in the day, a somber chancellor, Angela Merkel, dressed in black, acknowledged what people across Europe had been fearing with the approach of the holiday season: One of the Continent’s ubiquitous Christmas markets appeared to have been targeted for assault, killing 12 and injuring dozens.
> 
> “We must assume at the current time that it was a terrorist attack,” Ms. Merkel told reporters on Tuesday.
> 
> She later appeared in a black wool coat, bearing a white rose to lay at a memorial outside of the church in the heart of western Berlin, where a traditional holiday market was transformed into a scene of carnage late Monday.
> 
> Even as she was mourning, Peter Frank, the country’s federal prosecutor, insisted that while the similarities to last summer’s Bastille Day attack in Nice, France, led his office to suspect that the Berlin attack was motivated by terrorism, he was unable to produce any hard evidence.
> 
> A 23-year-old Pakistani was detained roughly an hour after the attack, but through the day German authorities mixed habitual caution with what appeared to be growing uncertainty that the young man, who may have entered the country seeking asylum last December, was indeed the driver of the truck.



Dear Hater, You are late. 

https://defence.pk/threads/terror-attack-in-christmas-market-in-berlin.467681/page-25#post-9029766

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## Russell

Pakistani/Afghan migrant has been officially released - German Authorities

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## The Sandman

Khafee said:


> Dear Hater, You are late.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/terror-attack-in-christmas-market-in-berlin.467681/page-25#post-9029766


Oops i can see vultures are slowly gonna disappear now shame on those people who even used this sad tragedy as a way to bash Pakistan really shame on them.

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## Indus Pakistan

Fantastic .........

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## MarkusS

Philia said:


> AfD might do well but no party alone will get majority votes in Germany. And no party will go on a coalition with AfD. It's either CDU/SPD coalition meaning Merkel chancellor or by off chance SPD/Grune coalition. Don't tell me you'd prefer SPD/Grune coalition.
> 
> 
> Might be. But what do you expect him to do, Other then making life uncomfortable for immigrants?
> 
> 
> Not so fast. We're not living in the 1930's anymore.




It doesnt matter. The only thing that matters is to crush the system. I enjoy their panic. They lose control,. Thats the only thing that matters.


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## Mamluk

The Sandman said:


> Oops i can see vultures are slowly gonna disappear now shame on those people who even used this sad tragedy as a way to bash Pakistan really shame on them.



Ban the rats. Can't let PDF be a platform for anti-Pakistan propaganda.

@Horus

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## jamal18

MarkusS said:


> I know we disagree on so many things...but try to understand me.
> 
> I´m a young man. I have a family. I have friends. All i want is peace and a future where i must not fear for my loved ones.
> 
> We both know who driver was. This did not happen in Europe before. And i want that this ends.



For once I agree with you wholeheartedly. I want peace as well.

Tell the American swine who have bombed countless Muslim countries and killed countless Muslims to stop doing it.

Nine dead is nothing; its a good day if only nine Muslims died in the Muslim world.


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## Mamluk

Khafee said:


> German police have said they may have* arrested the wrong man* over the Berlin terror attack, and the real culprit could still be at large and armed and dangerous.
> 
> "We have the wrong man," an unnamed police source told Welt newspaper. "This means the situation is different. The real culprit is still armed and can commit further atrocities."
> 
> The man arrested on Monday night under suspicion of ploughing a 7-tonne truck through a Christmas market in the heart of Berlin, killing 12, was named in German media reports as Naved Baluch, a 23-year-old asylum seeker of Pakistani origin.
> 
> Baluch has denied involvement in the attack, according to police.
> 
> He was picked up about 2 kilometres (1½ miles) away from the scene of the attack, near the Victory Column monument.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/
> 
> 
> *Blood and DNA inside truck 'does not match arrested man'*
> German police say a 23-year-old suspect arrested last night may not have been the attacker and his blood and *DNA does not match* samples found inside the truck.
> 
> Police believe it is increasingly likely last night’s attacker is still at large.
> 
> It comes after tests on the truck used in the attack show blood and DNA inside does not match the 23-year-old refugee arrested in the aftermath of the attack.
> 
> Chief prosecutor Peter Frank said authorities are keeping an open mind on whether the attacker had a Muslim background.
> 
> He said: “From the chosen target and behaviour of the perpetrator, you can infer an Islamist motive. But we must continue to investigate in all directions.”
> 
> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/berlin-terror-attack-live-updates-9486959
> 
> *Pakistani haters can now shut their traps, tuck their tails between their legs and slither off!!! *



This news deserves a thread of its own!!

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## Indus Pakistan

jamal18 said:


> For once I agree with you wholeheartedly. I want peace as well.
> 
> Tell the American swine who have bombed countless Muslim countries and killed countless Muslims to stop doing it.
> 
> Nine dead is nothing; its a good day if only nine Muslims died in the Muslim world.


Contractor for the Muslim world - UK also did bombing you are aware of that, more so than Italy?


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## MarkusS

Starlord said:


> Not a Pakistani German Police confirmed .. Saw it on BBC/CNN ..
> to all Indians and @MarkusS people should not be too judgmental when it comes to Terrorist and act of Terrorism , Even if he was a Pakistan i would still wish that Germans would have taken him out like a Savage, i have some very very very Good Friends in Germany and from them i heard about this incident , Europeans need to understand that someone is pushing them into this war so this clash becomes more about Ideologies , The Far right Extremist and ISIS has one thing in common, they both use dead for Propaganda in order motivate people to get into a fight ..ISIS will love European to bomb or invade any Arab Country following the Attacks on them so they can recruit more , you can't fight when people are motivated by religion plus if you keep giving them reason to recruit more and more people to fight, same theory goes to Europeans , if the Right wing keep motivate and scare tact to kick out or kill Muslims for the likes of this Douche bag than it wont solve anything but complicate it more ..
> 
> Can we just say that Europe can Deport all Muslims ? NO but lets say they do , but can those Europeans promise that after that they will not interfere or involved in any War which will be against any Muslim Country ? both parties know they cant so they are doing just politics .. those who died were innocent don't do politics over the dead man it is disgusting .




I dont want bomb anything. I demand mass deportation and that this threat ends. 

I´m not willing to sacrifice my future on the altar of this multicultural bullshit.


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## Khafee

MarkusS said:


> I dont want bomb anything. I demand mass deportation and that this threat ends.
> 
> I´m not willing to sacrifice my future on the altar of this multicultural bullshit.


Better move to Antarctica then.

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## maximuswarrior

Pakistani, Pakistani, Pakistani all day long... This is the end result. He has been released. Talk about humiliation.

They have changed the caption from Pakistani to suspect.

*Berlin market lorry attack: Only suspect held released*

If I were this Pakistani guy, I would sue the state to the core.

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## hussain0216

If you support wars and intervention you cant demand peace at home!

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## jamal18

Kaptaan said:


> Contractor for the Muslim world - UK also did bombing you are aware of that, more so than Italy?



Absolutely. For what it's worth hundreds of thousands of British people attended demonstrations against the Iraq war.

The other Europeans are less active in this war against Muslims. Time for Europe to cut itself away from NATO and have an independent foreign policy.


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## Russell

maximuswarrior said:


> Pakistani, Pakistani, Pakistani all day long... This is the end result. He has been released. Talk about humiliation.
> 
> They have changed the caption from *Pakistani* to suspect.
> 
> *Berlin market lorry attack: Only suspect held released*
> 
> If I were this Pakistani guy, I would sue the state to the core.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811281812823609346

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## Devil Soul

*Germany releases Pakistani held over Berlin attack*
AFP — UPDATED 7 minutes ago
WHATSAPP
 54 COMMENTS
 PRINT





Armed policemen stand at the Christmas market in Schwerin, northern Germany. -AFP
A Pakistani asylum seeker suspected of ploughing a lorry into a Berlin Christmas market was released Tuesday for lack of evidence, prosecutors said.

“The accused, detained over the attack on the Berlin Christmas market on December 19, 2016, was let go on this evening on the orders of the federal prosecutor,” his office said in a statement.

Authorities identified the man earlier as a Pakistani asylum seeker.

“The forensic tests carried out so far did not provide evidence of the accused's presence during the crimes in the cab of the lorry."

German authorities had earlier said that the Pakistani asylum seeker may not be the right man, sparking fears the real killer could be on the run.

As the shellshocked German capital reeled from the country's deadliest attack of recent years, doubts emerged over whether the man detained overnight actually committed the atrocity.

Berlin's police chief, Klaus Kandt, said “we may have a dangerous criminal in the area”, and announced that security would be boosted while urging “heightened vigilance”.

Twelve people were killed and almost 50 wounded when the truck tore through the crowd Monday, smashing wooden stalls and crushing victims, in scenes reminiscent of July's deadly attack in the French Riviera city of Nice.

The mangled truck came to a halt with its windscreen smashed, a trail of destruction and screaming victims in its wake, with Christmas trees toppled on their side, days before the country's most important festival.





Women mourn at the scene where a truck ploughed into a crowded Christmas market. -Reuters


Chancellor Angela Merkel -- who visited the scene of the carnage for a minute's silence and then joined a memorial service in the adjacent Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Church - labelled the deadly rampage a likely “terrorist” attack.

Merkel said that, if it was confirmed that the killer had been part of the country's recent huge refugee influx, this would be “particularly sickening in relation to the many, many Germans who are involved every day in helping refugees”.

Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere had earlier said the top suspect was a Pakistani man who had arrived via the so-called Balkan route last New Year's Eve and was staying at a Berlin refugee shelter.

De Maiziere added however that the suspect had insisted he was innocent and had not surfaced on any terror watch lists.

*'Bodies everywhere'*
Neither the militant Islamic State (IS) group nor other extremists immediately claimed the attack, said de Maiziere, who vowed those responsible would be hunted down.

The Polish-registered vehicle, which was loaded with steel beams, had cut a bloody swathe of 60-80 metres (yards) into the market in the once-divided city's inner west.

At least six of those killed were German citizens, authorities said, while countries from Israel to Spain said their nationals were among those injured in the busy tourist spot.

A Polish man, killed with an gunshot, was found on the truck's passenger seat, said de Maiziere. He was believed to be the vehicle's registered driver.

The Polish owner of the lorry, Ariel Zurawski, confirmed Monday that the driver -- his 37-year-old cousin - was missing, telling AFP: “We don't know what happened to him ... I've known him since I was a kid. I can vouch for him.”

Survivors recounted harrowing stories of near misses and carnage as festive partying turned to death and destruction in seconds.





The cabin of a truck is pulled off the Christmas market past the Zoopalast cinema. -AFP


Briton Emma Rushton was enjoying a glass of mulled wine when the Christmas scene was shattered by a loud crash and screams.

“We heard a really loud bang and saw some of the Christmas lights to our left starting to be pulled down,” she told Sky news.

“Then we saw the articulated vehicle going through people and through the stalls and just pulling everything down, and then everything went dark.”

*'Free way of life'*
German flags flew at half-mast Tuesday and mourners placed flowers and candles at the site. Berlin's landmark Brandenburg Gate was to be lit in the German colours black, red and gold in honour of the victims at dusk on Tuesday.

The government declared that the city's 60-odd Christmas markets -- after a one-day voluntary stoppage out of respect for the victims - should continue because “we must not let our free way of life be taken from us”.

Europe has been on high alert for most of 2016, with bloody jihadist attacks striking Paris and Brussels. Germany also suffered two attacks in July in the southern state of Bavaria committed by asylum seekers and claimed by the IS group.

An axe rampage by an Afghan or Pakistani man on a train wounded five people, and a suicide bombing by Syrian asylum seeker left 15 people injured six days later.

The arrival of 890,000 refugees last year has polarised Germany, with critics calling the influx a serious security threat.

Marcus Pretzell of the anti-immigration Alternative for Germany party labelled the Christmas market victims “Merkel's dead”.

The attack in Berlin comes five months after Tunisian Islamist extremist Mohamed Lahouaiej Bouhlel ploughed a truck into a crowd on the Nice seafront, killing 86 people.

President Francois Hollande said France was facing a “high level of threat” following the Berlin bloodshed.

The United States also condemned an apparent “terrorist attack”.

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## MarkusS

maximuswarrior said:


> Pakistani, Pakistani, Pakistani all day long... This is the end result. He has been released. Talk about humiliation.
> 
> They have changed the caption from Pakistani to suspect.
> 
> *Berlin market lorry attack: Only suspect held released*
> 
> If I were this Pakistani guy, I would sue the state to the core.




He can go to hell. He has no place in Europe. He is not European. Back in next plane and head where he came from.

He has no right to be here. 

No Tolerance! No Mercy! This ends NOW.


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## Mr.Nair

RIP, Germany is a nice country, incidents like these can make visa for sane pakistanis also more difficult.


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## MarkusS

Khafee said:


> Better move to Antarctica then.




That is not necessary. Queen Isabella in Spain showed how this issue can be dealed with.

Forza Italia demanded today that our plan is put into action.

All so called "refugees" have to be brought into closed camps on islands. They must work for the food they get. They lose their right to move freely. Make an agreement with any north african country and build up camps there. None of them will stay in Europe. 

Italy already has 24/7 superveillance on all mosques. New ones arent allowed to be build. Evry muslim who makes even smallest anti italian / anti western remark gets deported within 4-5 days.

We want this to be installed in all of europe. Austria follows a similar approach and so does denmark.
Time for tolerance is over. 

It is impossible to live in one country. It failed and the consequence is clear.


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## The Sandman

Mr.Nair said:


> RIP, Germany is a nice country, incidents like these can make visa for sane pakistanis also more difficult.


 there's no cure for hatred people literally go blind in hatred of others.

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## maximuswarrior

Russell said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/811281812823609346



There is a saying: khoda pahaar nikla 
chuwa

It is very applicable here.


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## H!TchHiker

O


Mr.Nair said:


> RIP, Germany is a nice country, incidents like these can make visa for sane pakistanis also more difficult.


Oh khuadya..Murgi k 1 tang...A suspect was not pakistani how many times it needs to be spoken..

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## MarkusS

Khafee said:


> I hope you don't have an Aneurysm or a Myocardial infarction




Dont worry for me. I´m athletic. 

That said, our youth group of the Forza Italia in Lucca paid all 5 "enemie families" in our city a visit today. We let them know that they are watched. That they are not welcome. And that we will hold them accountable if anything happenes here.


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## Mr.Nair

H!TchHiker said:


> O
> 
> Oh khuadya..Murgi k 1 tang...A suspect was not pakistani how many times it needs to be spoken..



I know, the rumours and many prior news are more than enough by authorities to have a background check of people from certain countries.


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## haviZsultan

Kaptaan said:


> Unfortunately people will judge us. So they should. We do it all the time. That is how the world is. This feelimngs are same. Disgust, shame and abhorence but all that is not going to addresss the issue.



I feel this post is a little judging and a little harsh on me. 

But I agree with this part. The education system, the teaching in Pakistan, lack of criticism and objectiveness, treatment of liberals/secularists as traitors despite they haven't killed a single person to date, everything needs to be taken into account when looking into the core reasons and seeking a solution. We have been hijacked by mullahs of the most narrow minded kind and they are dictating our policy.

However I have to note from the start that all muslims are not the problem here. While there are those foul, evil people who would justify this, we are condemning it and strongly. The majority of muslims do not agree with this, the majority condemns this, the muslim majority is standing with Germany and Europe against this terrorism.

Also these types of attacks receive a lot of attention because they occur in Europe. This is happening daily in Syria/Iraq/Afghanistan/Yemen and weekly in Nigeria/Somalia/Pakistan. So there is a severe problem in the Islamic world but unfortunately our plight at the hands of vicious terrorists and mullahs is not taken into account because we are expendable to the Europeans/Americans. 

Of course this is a muslim problem but the answer to the problem may be found in the historic principles laid out by early Muslim states which never had this level of fanaticism we now have.



> We must begin by clinically dissecting the cause why Pakistani's are prone to such hate acts where they don't have any beef whatsoever. This guy for petes sakes arrived in Germany 11 months ago. That is less than 325 days. So clearly he was carry something within himself that caused this incident.



I agree. As I said muslims need to take account of the situation and begin to deconstruct the terrorist narrative. Unfortunately those who have have had to escape or have been killed. Its a dire situation for us. US occupation of Islamic states may have boosted the terrorist narrative too. Terrorist attacks were far fewer before the war on terror being launched but were still there. The roots could be the wahabi movement but even that was supported by the British.

In short everyone has fueled the fire of Islamic terrorism. First the west and then the self righteous Muslim states like Saudi Iran and Pakistan. 


> I think the problem is in the Pakistani mindset. Funny thing is your post even* exposes* the problem. It is subtle but profound. It is thought process so benign but so destructive as well. You said -



Terrorism is a most applicable problem to muslims. Bringing them up is necessary to understanding the common muslim narrative which is against any killing of innocents as well as important in de-constructing the terrorist narrative. Never have I promoted anything else. I have spoken about the mixing of religion and politics and praised the secular system. 

But you are working on the premise that any form of Muslim advocacy is wrong. I am a secularist but other secularists, including you I have met don't have realistic aspirations for the world. 

It took Europe time to eliminate orthodoxy and the environment wasn't half as volatile as it is now (with US having bases in almost all Muslim nations except Iran and some others and bombing Afghanistan like no tommorow). Lets note that Iqbal, our national poet noted that the loss of Ijtehad (1), religious debate and tolerant thinking/philosophy and the invasion of the mongols(2) destroyed Islamic liberalism forever. So there has always also been foreign interference which is as equally destructive as conservative thinking. 

Other than this the battle between liberal Islam and extreme conservativeness is extremely old. Perhaps understanding the background and giving new space to Ibn Rushd's theories and other secular theories can help us find a solution to the problem. Abandoning Islam and removing its influence completely is a very simplistic assessment here. Even the secularism I advocate is to have a small taste of the majorities wishes in it. What i propose strongly though is that muslim laws should not be imposed on the non muslims like ZAB's ban on drinking for even Christians. 

You are also implying that Muslims abandon their Muslimness completely. This is a very simplistic assessment because it is not do-able and is a very Islamophobic view. They will not do it. Instead we have to work on achieving harmony. Islamic philosophy has been hijacked by the narrow minded. This battle between narrow mindedness and a more liberal understanding of Islam has existed from the start.

There are still people like Ghamidi and even better people like Muhammad Farooq Khan who challenged the terrorist narrative and were staunch muslims. They argued against the terrorist narrative but were pious muslims. You are working on a assumption that any talk about muslims=the problem.

Lets note that USA itself supported mullahs like Zia Ul Haq who was one of the people who made Pakistan what it is now. They fought a so called jihad against the Soviets and fanaticized society for a decade to defeat them, then left Afghanistan to the mercy of the hardline wahabi/deobandi mullah. I think this act galavanized extremists-Muslim extremists everywhere. If we had seen we were being used right there this terrorist threat would not have magnified to such a scale.



> Notice how you place '*Muslim*' in front of 'Pakistani's'.



I meant nothing by it. You are nitpicking. I am a Pakistani nationalist and promote a Pakistan equal for all regardless of religion, sect or ethnicity. Being muslim does not come in the way of my being a Pakistani. Everyone should try to understand the basics of his religion. Whether he is a Christian, Jew or whatever. 



> Again notice what the priority is in your sentance.
> 
> Again the emphasis can be seen.



People take a lot of pride in being muslim. More than any other religion. But this pride is based on ancestors whose policies were largely secular which allowed the willful conversion of many to Islam. 



> This shows that even in your mind at a conceptual level your mind is functioning along a "Muslim and others" model to such a degree that it even supercedes your nationalty - Pakistan. You used 'Muslims' three times and even when you used 'Pakistan' it was relegated to second or subsidiary position. Now compare this with Arabs who will mostly say Arabs and maybe then say 'Muslim' or Turks who almost always say 'Turk' without any other qualifiers.



Being muslim is not an issue, being a fanatic is. The most proper setup for muslims and the setup we are told to have is the khilafat which rules over the whole Islamic world regardless of ethnicity/sect. Part of our problem is due to the fall and decline of khilafat. The last khilafat was seen 100 years ago under the Ottomans and it does not exist anymore. But Islamically all the muslim world should be one nation. Every Islamic nation is a shadow of itself and made by colonial powers. 

Perhaps if the Islamic world was one there would be a more universal muslim voice against violent terrorism and other forms of tyranny. The Ummayads and Abbasids were very liberal. Works like the 1001 nights came during their time and a lot in it was objectionable for today's mullahs but it was the height of muslim free thinking and egalitarianism. Of course we can't predict the future but everytime Muslims were on the path to liberalism they were hijacked. From Wahab to women's education being banned in Afghanistan after years of women's rights given by communists. So was the case with the mongol invasion of Iraq.

Still this focus on Islamic renaisence does not mean I d not love my country. 

I am a Pakistani nationalist. Being Muslim is not the problem here. Being a fanatic is.


> What does this tell me? Simple. The notion of belonging to a Muslim nationhood is stronger then belonging to Pakistani nationhood. This is bad news and very destructive to Pakistan. Simply because there are over 1 billion Muslims spread over the entire world in over 40 countries. Statistics and probability will mean that there are always going to be ongoing issues in such a large group. By investing into this huge group you end up being contractor for all problems of the Muslim world and sure enough you - Havizsultan might be able to function carrying that load on your head but when multiplied over millions on pakistani's your going to get some with temperament that takes them to go another step further, another step further and finally take the plunge over the top like this guy.



The notion is as noticeable in Israel which is economically and militarily a quite successful state. They see it as a responsibility, a duty to help and uplift jews worldwide and their policy is the same. 

Indoctrination is indeed a slow process and the current system of Islamic nations plays a role but so does the occupation of Islamic states and the lack of manliness of each such Islamic state. There are a cocktail of problems here and the solution is not as simplistic as this. As the conservatives rely on the assumption only Muslim=Pakistan and all minorities are a threat starting with Ahmedis you are relying on the assumption that no Islam lover can be a proper Pakistani nationalist. 

My friend I respect your views but nationalism transcends all this. A good muslim can be a good Pakistani. So can a Ahmedi/Christian/Hindu. Lets not make overly simplistic assumptions about this extremely huge problem. 



> This problem cannot go away unless Pakistani's are reconfigured to think as* nationals* of a *state > Pakistan *not *nationals* of a > *global grouping*.



I don't think so. Nationalism and Religion can exist at the same level and have the same status in ones mind. Of course mixing religion with policy making and politics is a mistake which ancient Islamic movements like the mutazilites have also noted. 



> As long as this problem of priority - placing Pakistan first is not resolved some Pakistani will keep going over the top and become contractos for global problems. In their case they have not heard of the saying 'charity begins at home'.



I don't think if they put Muslimness before their nationality they automatically become terrorists. But yes a lot of Pakistanis and other muslims around the world have forgotten the glory days of the Rashiduns and Ummayads and the secularism around which their initial Islamic nations were built.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

CBU-105 said:


> right, so he's Pakistani now ? no longer a terrorist Afghan namak haram with a fake passport ?


Too bad son... The Germans have released him ... He's not a suspect anymore ..

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## MarkusS

Khafee said:


> You are disgusting!




For what? For protectiong our families. Our city and country?

If we chose to do nothing now it will get worse and worse. We cant allow this barbarism to spread further into our daily lifes.


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## Khafee

MarkusS said:


> For what? For protectiong our families. Our city and country?
> 
> If we chose to do nothing now it will get worse and worse. We cant allow this barbarism to spread further into our daily lifes.


For ganging up on innocent people, and bullying them. Give someone who is already depressed / difficult circumstances, more reason to fly off the handle. Dumbest logic I ever heard, but hardly new coming from you.

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## MarkusS

Khafee said:


> For ganging up on people, and bullying them. Give someone who is already depressed / difficult circumstances, more reason to fly off the handle. Dumbest logic I ever heard, but hardly new coming from you.




We were polite. Dont worry. We delivered a message and made clear its understood. 

Our nation is the last large european nation not hit by this. So far it was only Forza Italias harsh laws that prevented this. We deported people for just namig their children "jihad" or "Sharia". We deported people for a facebook rant against Italy.

If something happenes i would never forgive myself. We have christmas market in Lucca two. The decission to send out us was made from the party leadership itself. They send to evy city group and we youth members were send to the adress and delivered the message. We said it calm and in not an agressive way.

You must see it as a friendly remainder. They are guests. No more and no less. When you visit my house and do something wrong i would give you a friendly note too.


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## maximuswarrior

MarkusS said:


> He can go to hell. He has no place in Europe. He is not European. Back in next plane and head where he came from.
> 
> He has no right to be here.
> 
> No Tolerance! No Mercy! This ends NOW.



Well, first he is going to sue your a$$. After that he should catch the next flight with bags of money. I agree.

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## Khafee

MarkusS said:


> We were polite. Dont worry. We delivered a message and made clear its understood.
> *
> Our nation is the last large european nation not hit by this. So far it was only Forza Italias harsh laws that prevented this. We deported people for just namig their children "jihad" or "Sharia". We deported people for a facebook rant against Italy.*
> 
> If something happenes i would never forgive myself. We have christmas market in Lucca two. The decission to send out us was made from the party leadership itself. They send to evy city group and we youth members were send to the adress and delivered the message. We said it calm and in not an agressive way.
> 
> You must see it as a friendly remainder. They are guests. No more and no less. When you visit my house and do something wrong i would give you a friendly note too.



Return to fascism. Remember what happened last time you went nuts?

Just looking at this thread, and how you were screaming and howling, one can only imagine how "polite" you actually were.

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## T-123456

They released the Pakistani.
*Not guilty!*

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## maximuswarrior

MarkusS said:


> We were polite. Dont worry. We delivered a message and made clear its understood.
> 
> Our nation is the last large european nation not hit by this. So far it was only Forza Italias harsh laws that prevented this. We deported people for just namig their children "jihad" or "Sharia". We deported people for a facebook rant against Italy.
> 
> If something happenes i would never forgive myself. We have christmas market in Lucca two. The decission to send out us was made from the party leadership itself. They send to evy city group and we youth members were send to the adress and delivered the message. We said it calm and in not an agressive way.
> 
> You must see it as a friendly remainder. They are guests. No more and no less. When you visit my house and do something wrong i would give you a friendly note too.



Talk all you want. You know damned well that many Western governments have been turning a blind eye to US covert support for rebel and terror groups in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East. Worse, some Western countries have even become party by joining the US military campaign. Where do your think the homeless refugees in the Middle East are going to knock after US and her allies bomb their countries? You reap what you sow. The refugee problem was largely created by your American ally. There is no need to shed crocodile tears or blame others now. Stop interfering in those countries and stop longing for regime change. Mind your own darn business and the Syrians/Iraqi's won't be knocking on your doors. At least not in such mass numbers.

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## Indus Pakistan

terry5 said:


> they say a white mans best friend is a dog and i heard they are indeed coefficient


You know I have dog already - but I am more than happy take a stray - you will do nicely !

@haviZsultan Your post is long and when I get time I will reply in detail to the points you raised. However let's move away from this minority rubbish - your secularist so your in my camp but mate we are going to have to accept the disgusting reality. They are not a minority - we are. This language of appeasement will not do. I think the secularists have been weak and failed mount robust defence to gain ground.

I accept your argument that Islam is not a problem,, Some members of my family are very religious. I have a nephew who prays five times a day where ever he is. I have seen him place the rug on side of motorway station and with half of UK roaring past in cars with the other half looking on and he prays without a care. Anybody complain he will tear their guts out. I would love him to into MarKuS. I call him our Chechen warrior and he looks like that. He means no harm to anybody but interfer with his faith and you will see trouble.

However that does not detract from a problem we have. A parasite has infected Islam and created a disease that has spread like plaque. Similar to how protozoan parasite has adapted to use Mosquito as a vector to spread and pools of stagnant water to multiply this deadly disease for lack of better term 'Islamism' has similarly spread and wreaked havoc over the last 3 decades although it was always there in the background waitingh for it's time. That USA, Saudia etc played about to make this monster does not change the facts as they stand today.

Frankly right now the infection spread is not limited within the minority but significant portion of society is afflicted. Only the degree of infection varies. No offence I even think you are latent postive as can be seen by you with continous hyphenating Muslim with Pakistan when you know Pakistan is a nation and you can be Christian, Buddhist or Sikh.

This infection in it's extreme load turns people into zombie killers, In it's lower dosage it has other less deleterious effects but effects all the same. In my opinion the swamp needs disinfecting. I believe and hope the uber-athiest Chinese will do it for Pakistan. That is why I am rather fond of Chinese.

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## MarkusS

Khafee said:


> Return to fascism. Remember what happened last time you went nuts?
> 
> Just looking at this thread, and how you were screaming and howling, one can only imagine how "polite" you actually were.




That is not facism. It made it possible that our nation was spared this horror. We have a right to take the necessary actions to defend our nation. 

It is important to remind them about those points. And i assure you i was perfectly calm.


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## Peaceful Civilian

T-123456 said:


> They released the Pakistani.
> *Not guilty!*


Damage is already done on all over international news channels after German chancellor speech. She should have waited for investigation

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## MarkusS

maximuswarrior said:


> Talk all you want. You know damned well that many Western governments have been turning a blind eye to US covert support for rebel and terror groups in Iraq, Syria and elsewhere in the Middle East. Worse, some Western countries have even become party by joining the US military campaign. Where do your think the homeless refugees in the Middle East are going to knock after US and her allies bomb their countries? You reap what you sow. The refugee problem was largely created by your American ally. There is no need to shed crocodile tears or blame others now. Stop interfering in those countries and stop longing for regime change. Mind your own darn business and the Syrians/Iraqi's won't be knocking on your doors. At least not in such mass numbers.




And? This must end now. Forza Italia is against any unprovoked foreign military engagement. Why you blame me for things in iraq and syria?

I want that this ends. We want them out of europe. We will not interfer with them.


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## Sugarcane

Karma is b!tch, It's high time that Europeans close their bases and call their soldiers back from Africa & Asia and should deport everyone to whom they have given asylum, starting from Pakistan they should start with BLA & BRA etc. Leadership and our favorite Tifa Boori.



R.I.P

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## MarkusS

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Damage is already done on all over international news channels after German chancellor speech. She should have waited for investigation




You do realize that Merkels chair is cooking. Evry minute she waited she is blamed. People scream she has bllod on her hands.

The pressure on her "government" ist extreme.


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## The Sandman

LoveIcon said:


> starting from Pakistan they should start with BLA & BRA etc. Leadership and our favorite Tifa Boori.


I totally agree with this they should do this ASAP.

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## maximuswarrior

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Damage is already done on all over international news channels after German chancellor speech. She should have waited for investigation



Fully agree. They have been screaming Pakistani all day long. Every single media outlet in the world has covered the story.

There isn't much we can do, but we must learn from this episode. We must take very deep lessons from this episode.



MarkusS said:


> And? This must end now. Forza Italia is against any unprovoked foreign military engagement. Why you blame me for things in iraq and syria?
> 
> I want that this ends. We want them out of europe. We will not interfer with them.



Well, at least we agree on something than. I blame Western governments for applying double standards for interference. You can't have it both ways. We know what is happening in Syria. The people of Syria did not ask Western civilization to bomb their country and liberate them from Assad. The same story for Iraq. You can blame the Americans for your refugee miseries. Your leaders follow the US like poodles. They nod to every command and obey like a loyal puppy. Even if this goes against their national interests. Don't blame the refugees. Instead of being angry at refugees spend your energy against the duplicitous foreign policies of your respective governments. Many if not
most refugees were living a decent life before Uncle Sam decided to remove Assad and bomb their country to bits and pieces along with ISIS. Another American byproduct by the way.



LoveIcon said:


> Karma is b!tch, It's high time that Europeans close their bases and call their soldiers back from Africa & Asia and should deport everyone to whom they have given asylum, starting from Pakistan they should start with BLA & BRA etc. Leadership and our favorite Tifa Boori.
> 
> 
> 
> R.I.P



How conveniently they differentiate between ordinary poor asylum seekers and their puppies on payroll. How BLA, MQM and other terrorists who serve their interests are enjoying sanctuaries in their lands. No questions about their loyalty or refugee status. The hypocrisy is just bloody mind blowing.

You have hit the nail. As long as the West and the US in particular keeps applying these double standards they cannot expect anything. It just defies all logic.

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## Götterdämmerung

Sinopakfriend said:


> .
> 
> I am truly sadden by this insane and horrific act of pure sickness. Without any reserve I denouce this hineous, cowardly act.
> 
> This so pathetic and sou less that I can not find words to condemn it.
> 
> The sheer ingratitude... when people move to the West for better ife.. they leave behind places where there are no right and justice..only misery and injustice.
> 
> While enjoying welfare of hardworking taxpayers they instead of contributing and bettering themsleves demand, demand and demand...Look at your UK...how those who had/have been on welfare were/are the most vocal voices of hate.
> 
> @Götterdämmerung ...I have many German friends and had worked with them. One of the most humane and giving country in the world.
> 
> Religion is the opium of the masses as is nationalism. Both are form of facism. Both need to be well managed.
> 
> Is not the purpose of a religion spritiual growth?
> 
> Pak needs to act with vengence against those who are merchant of death and who use religion to accumulate wealth and power.
> 
> Your country has lost how many because of terrorism? Not to mention economically...
> 
> If it is proven that the killer was from your country..then the PM of Pak must take responsibility and show character...show support to the victims and the German state..by not empty words but concrete actions.
> 
> Pak needs to pass some tough laws and cut of the money supply coming from outside to these sick minds...
> 
> I do appologise if I have acted as a bad guest and offended Pak peoples...but this is unacceptable.
> 
> May the families of the innocent victims find peace...
> 
> Germany must act ruthlessly...if there is one there will be more.




The webcam of that particular Christmas Market was turned off line for no reason that afternoon, hours before the attack. There is something deeper than just a "terrorist" wreaking havoc at the heart of Germany.

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## maximuswarrior

Götterdämmerung said:


> The webcam of that particular Christmas Market was turned off line for no reason that afternoon, hours before the attack. There is something deeper than just a "terrorist" wreaking havoc at the heart of Germany.



That is really crazy. Is this authentic and verified info?


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## YeBeWarned

MarkusS said:


> I dont want bomb anything. I demand mass deportation and that this threat ends.
> 
> I´m not willing to sacrifice my future on the altar of this multicultural bullshit.



You know the world does not work like this ... you and your leader will never leave Alone ME so why are you asking the Muslim to go out ? first protest against your leaders and ask them to leave ME , African countries .. than demand something like this .

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## waz

foxtrot1 said:


> In EU many pakistani themselves are refugees and this problem is not refugee related but religion related.



What? Pakistanis make up a tiny fraction of any "refugees", and as a percentage of the population it is negligible. The rest of your posts are too stupid to even comment on. You must be crying your eyes out that it wasn't a Pakistani, especially after your frothing at the mouth posts. Pakistani this, Pakistani that.

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## MarkusS

Starlord said:


> You know the world does not work like this ... you and your leader will never leave Alone ME so why are you asking the Muslim to go out ? first protest against your leaders and ask them to leave ME , African countries .. than demand something like this .



I? My leader? 

By god i swear to you that i will never set a foot into any muslim country. I see them as enemy. There is nothing i want from them. Nothing wnt to do with them. I want no contact with them. No deals with them. I want them out of italy and i promise by god that i would never do there or even go there only if they attack and i have to defend. 

I want zero contact. No diplomacy, no trade. Plain and simple nothing. Its not worth it.


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## Götterdämmerung

maximuswarrior said:


> That is really crazy. Is this authentic and verified info?



Strange, very strange just a few hours ago, I could get the official info. Now, everything seems to have been erased.

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## YeBeWarned

MarkusS said:


> I? My leader?
> 
> By god i swear to you that i will never set a foot into any muslim country. I see them as enemy. There is nothing i want from them. Nothing wnt to do with them. I want no contact with them. No deals with them. I want them out of italy and i promise by god that i would never do there or even go there only if they attack and i have to defend.
> 
> I want zero contact. No diplomacy, no trade. Plain and simple nothing. Its not worth it.



Exactly , no go with this Attitude to your people and ask them to take streets and kick out those European leaders who are letting the " Enemy Muslims " in .. you are Damn right do no Business , Don't Visit , Don't go to War , Don't interfere and Don't Criticize .. 

No Arab Country wants to Attack you in fact it was Italy and Germany who attacked every Neighbor in WW2 .. but you know , people like you are not Majority just a Minority .. 
that would be so nice if all those Arab Immigrants go back to their country and all Muslim take out all their Investments from Europe Specially Forza Italia .. Arab men and Women should also stop Buying Stuff from European brands , selling them Oil , Close down all Brand Shops right ? we'll see who will come to who than  

@Khafee bro i wonder if all Muslim make a block and really become that Racists so ?

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## waz

The German services are in disarray and confused. I'm sorry, but these people have been given a clear head-start if they are running, or if they plan to carry out another attack, lots of leeway. I was watching a news report form the BBC and they compared our mass monitoring of private calls and emails, the recruitment of Muslims into MI5 and MI6 and rapid reaction forces, to that of the prevention strategies of European states and the comparisons were poor. Germany really needs to up its game here. 


As for the rest of the debate, which sullied many pages, to this date there hasn't been an attack by a Pakistani person on mainland Europe ever, God willing it stays that way. The ones in Europe, who have been settled for years i.e. Norway, Netherlands and Germany are educated and civilised. I've always been impressed with them.
As for the ones prancing around as refugees, these idiots should be sent back home with immediate effect. Build your country, not run away from it.

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## foxtrot1

waz said:


> What? Pakistanis make up a tiny fraction of any "refugees", and as a percentage of the population it is negligible. The rest of your posts are too stupid to even comment on. You must be crying your eyes out that it wasn't a Pakistani, especially after your frothing at the mouth posts. Pakistani this, Pakistani that.



I can post the tweets which said that the culprit is of Pakistani nationality. And it wasn't Indian media.


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## maximuswarrior

*Berlin attack: So-called Islamic State claims responsibility*

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38385961

After blaming the Pakistani all day long we now believe that ISIS is behind the attack.



waz said:


> The German services are in disarray and confused. I'm sorry, but these people have been given a clear head-start if they are running, or if they plan to carry out another attack, lots of leeway. I was watching a news report form the BBC and they compared our mass monitoring of private calls and emails, the recruitment of Muslims into MI5 and MI6 and rapid reaction forces, to that of the prevention strategies of European states and the comparisons were poor. Germany really needs to up its game here.
> 
> 
> As for the rest of the debate, which sullied many pages, to this date there hasn't been an attack by a Pakistani person on mainland Europe ever, God willing it stays that way. The ones in Europe, who have been settled for years i.e. Norway, Netherlands and Germany are educated and civilised. I've always been impressed with them.
> As for the ones prancing around as refugees, these idiots should be sent back home with immediate effect. Build your country, not run away from it.



Beautifully said.


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## Hyde

maximuswarrior said:


> *Berlin attack: So-called Islamic State claims responsibility*
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38385961
> 
> After blaming the Pakistani all day long we now believe that ISIS is behind the attack.


They had actually claimed yesterday as well but police wasn't taking it seriously as per the radio news yesterday after they apprehnded a Pakistani

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## waz

foxtrot1 said:


> I can post the tweets which said that the culprit is of Pakistani nationality. And it wasn't Indian media.



Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't take Twitter as fact. The Tweets were based on some sections of the German media, yet the police or security services had not even confirmed that the man they were holding had done anything wrong!
You literally rolled out post after post slamming Pakistanis over and over again. Pathetic would be too good a word to describe your behaviour.

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## foxtrot1

So-called Islamic State (IS) has said one of its militants carried out the lorry attack on a Berlin Christmas market, which left 12 people dead.

The identity of the attacker has not been established and there was no immediate way of verifying the claim.

German prosecutors have freed the only suspect, citing insufficient evidence. He was identified by media only as Pakistani national Naved B.
source BBC


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## Hyde

waz said:


> As for the rest of the debate, which sullied many pages, to this date there hasn't been an attack by a Pakistani person on mainland Europe ever, God willing it stays that way. The ones in Europe, who have been settled for years i.e. Norway, Netherlands and Germany are educated and civilised. I've always been impressed with them.
> As for the ones prancing around as refugees, these idiots should be sent back home with immediate effect. Build your country, not run away from it.


This is exactly I had said earlier in the morning when everyone on PDF had established facts that a Pakistani is behind this terrorist activity

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## foxtrot1

waz said:


> Anyone with an ounce of common sense wouldn't take Twitter as fact. The Tweets were based on some sections of the German media, yet the police or security services had not even confirmed that the man they were holding had done anything wrong!
> You literally rolled out post after post slamming Pakistanis over and over again. Pathetic would be too good a word to describe your behaviour.



and they will not confirm it any time soon. Because this will question CDU's policy and make Merkel look like responsible for this. 

They are also politicians afterall.


----------



## MarkusS

Starlord said:


> Exactly , no go with this Attitude to your people and ask them to take streets and kick out those European leaders who are letting the " Enemy Muslims " in .. you are Damn right do no Business , Don't Visit , Don't go to War , Don't interfere and Don't Criticize ..
> 
> No Arab Country wants to Attack you in fact it was Italy and Germany who attacked every Neighbor in WW2 .. but you know , people like you are not Majority just a Minority ..
> that would be so nice if all those Arab Immigrants go back to their country and all Muslim take out all their Investments from Europe Specially Forza Italia .. Arab men and Women should also stop Buying Stuff from European brands , selling them Oil , Close down all Brand Shops right ? we'll see who will come to who than
> 
> @Khafee bro i wonder if all Muslim make a block and really become that Racists so ?



we are not minority. We are majority. How you think we won all those regional parliament elections? Why you think we are able to make all those deportation laws reality? 

We dont want any deals or trade. Money is just worthless and cant be as important as security.

Trump said the right thing. First we must do a complete travel ban for those. Sort out who is already in and then make further decissions.


----------



## waz

maximuswarrior said:


> Beautifully said.



Thanks bro.

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## YeBeWarned

MarkusS said:


> we are not minority. We are majority. How you think we won all those regional parliament elections? Why you think we are able to make all those deportation laws reality?
> 
> We dont want any deals or trade. Money is just worthless and cant be as important as security.
> 
> Trump said the right thing. First we must do a complete travel ban for those. Sort out who is already in and then make further decissions.



Who is this WE ? when you say WE does this mean just Italians ? or Europeans ? cause i don't see it happening in Europe anytime soon what you are proposing , and as per your own words you are in Majority and in parliaments than it means your Leaders are Hypocrite as they talk about Europe Security yet let those " so call bad people in " ...

well you are talking like a 5 year old kid , Money is Everything in west .. let me give you some Advice and go and see American and White people in KSA and UAE , living and working for Arabs you know why ? cause they have $$$ .. they can even buy your so called right wing leader with 2 Oil wells lol ..

If Arabs start trading Oil and Gold with their own Currency .. along with China and Russia it will take less than a decade when US+EU come on their knees to beg them , I am a Economic Student , and an American born Professor who come to my University as a Guest speaker told me this .. and if you don't believe in me , than go and read the Post Crusade Era of Europe

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## foxtrot1

waz said:


> You literally rolled out post after post slamming Pakistanis over and over again. Pathetic would be too good a word to describe your behaviour.



I had some source and I was not randomly doing it because I saw this in my dream. 
The twitter handles were from The Washington post, Die Welt and now the BBC. 

You may blame them for borrowing Indian behaviour of blaming Pakistan/Pakistani before getting any evidence but not me.


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## MarkusS

Starlord said:


> Who is this WE ? when you say WE does this mean just Italians ? or Europeans ? cause i don't see it happening in Europe anytime soon what you are proposing , and as per your own words you are in Majority and in parliaments than it means your Leaders are Hypocrite as they talk about Europe Security yet let those " so call bad people in " ...
> 
> well you are talking like a 5 year old kid , Money is Everything in west .. let me give you some Advice and go and see American and White people in KSA and UAE , living and working for Arabs you know why ? cause they have $$$ .. they can even buy your so called right wing leader with 2 Oil wells lol ..
> 
> If Arabs start trading Oil and Gold with their own Currency .. along with China and Russia it will take less than a decade when US+EU come on their knees to beg them , I am a Economic Student , and an American born Professor who come to my University as a Guest speaker told me this .. and if you don't believe in me , than go and read the Post Crusade Era of Europe



You dont know reality. Why you think fence in idomeni was build? Why you think all are put in miserable camps? Politics change. We lock down now. But we have to clear the mess up thats already here. 

We cant have security as lomg they are here.


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## MarkusS

Starlord said:


> I didn't know i am talking to Bill gates of PDF who have give half of his wealth in Charity .. get off from your high horse Attitude and talk .. if you are up for Serious discussion on your bizarre Post i commented on .. if you want to play the game " you don't know i am the queen " game so kindly move on ..
> 
> and you did not mentioned Syrian but People who went as Refugee , giving an advice to stay and work for your country sounds a bit ironic from a person living in UK .. i wonder if your own parents left Pakistan ? why don't they stay and contribute ?
> 
> 
> 
> you did not Answer a single Question or give any explanation to my points .. you need a proper sleep brah ..



im on my mobile and walking. i did explain. 

we lock down. not just italy. germany too and all of europe because massive gains of far right.

now there is new proposal to make camps on islands and lock all refugess there and let them work hard.


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## Fenrir

waz said:


> The ones in Europe, who have been settled for years i.e. Norway, Netherlands and Germany are educated and civilised. I've always been impressed with them.



I've lived in Norway for almost 27 years (27 in April), which is my whole life and I have never once encountered any problem from Norway's Pakistan population. First-generation Pakistanis only make up about .8% of our population at around 40,000 persons while people of Pakistani descent total around 300,000 persons, and they've integrated into our society better then other minority groups like Iranians or Bosnians!!

Pakistanis serve in our Parliament.






Become international music stars and producers.





Are hit actors in popular Norwegian shows.





Own fantastic restaurants.





And make up a whooping 10% of all our medical students. Their population is smaller, though our second largest non-native population group, but their impact has been overwhelmingly positive.

Let's remember that in Norwegian history is wasn't outsiders posing a threat to our nation, but our own people like Breivik.





Or Toska.





In Norway Pakistani's have been nothing but a boon for our nation.

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## waz

foxtrot1 said:


> I had some source and I was not randomly doing it because I saw this in my dream.
> The twitter handles were from The Washington post, Die Welt and now the BBC.
> 
> You may blame them for borrowing Indian behaviour of blaming Pakistan/Pakistani before getting any evidence but not me.



You had your posts deleted as they were ludicrous. Yes you produced posts with Twitter feeds but then added your own running commentary. Just stop digging yourself a bigger hole.

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## Meengla

waz said:


> Where did I mention the Syrians? I clearly meant the Pakistanis The Syrians have every right to flee for safe regions.



Yes, Syrians, Iraqis, and Libyans have the right to be true refugees. As for Pakistani 'refugees'--they are just trying to piggyback on other refugees and should be kicked out. Shameless economic migrants they are. While at it, kick out Afghans too: What good have been those NATO trillions in Afghanistan?


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## waz

Technogaianist said:


> I've lived in Norway for almost 27 years (27 in April), which is my whole life and I have never once encountered any problem from Norway's Pakistan population. First-generation Pakistanis only make up about .8% of our population at around 40,000 persons while people of Pakistani descent total around 300,000 persons, and they've integrated into our society better then other minority groups like Iranians or Bosnians!!
> 
> Pakistanis serve in our Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Become international music stars and producers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are hit actors in popular Norwegian shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Own fantastic restaurants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And make up a whooping 10% of all our medical students. Their population is smaller, though our second largest non-native population group, but their impact has been overwhelmingly positive.
> 
> Let's remember that in Norwegian history is wasn't outsiders posing a threat to our nation, but our own people like Breivik.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or Toska.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Norway Pakistani's have been nothing but a boon for our nation.



Nice post hun thanks. They are a credit. I hope they continue to make Norway strong. All the best to them and our close Nordic friend. 
I found one thing hilarious about Brevik, he actually had Pakistani friends who looked after him when he was down and out. The guy is a strange contradiction.

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## foxtrot1

waz said:


> You had your posts deleted as they were ludicrous. Yes you produced posts with Twitter feeds but then added your own running commentary. Just stop digging yourself a bigger hole.


I never deleted any of the posts. 
You can count. 
Twitter handles are live news feeds too. It is not just social media for connection.


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## waz

Meengla said:


> Yes, Syrians, Iraqis, and Libyans have the right to be true refugees. As for Pakistani 'refugees'--they are just trying to piggyback on other refugees and should be kicked out. Shameless economic migrants they are. While at it, kick out Afghans too: What good have been those NATO trillions in Afghanistan?



You know me well bro, that's exactly what I meant.

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## WhyCry

waz said:


> Nice post hun thanks. They are a credit. I hope they continue to make Norway strong. All the best to them and our close Nordic friend.
> I found one thing hilarious about Brevik, he actually had Pakistani friends who looked after him when he was down and out. The guy is a strange contradiction.


I would agree with you. I have more in common with Pakistani Punjabi than a south Indian for instance (FYI I am punjabi and speak as well). Hence I have Pakistani friends. There is in no way I hate pakistanis including the ones on the forum; no matter how much they make it easy. Pakistan as a state is just another issue.

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## Vergennes

@waz @Technogaianist 

Please,could we keep this thread focused on this (coward) attack that just hit Germany and cost the lives of many innocents who just wanted to enjoy their time in a christmas market ? 
This isn't really the place to see indians and pakistanis fighting and the other horrors I just saw.

Tx.

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## YeBeWarned

MarkusS said:


> im on my mobile and walking. i did explain.
> 
> we lock down. not just italy. germany too and all of europe because massive gains of far right.
> 
> now there is new proposal to make camps on islands and lock all refugess there and let them work hard.



Don't Stress yourself , come home and than reply .. read my post and the questions i raised .. there is no hurry , i just want you to see that , what you are proposing can not be done in 21st Century , The Europeans did this back in 8-10th Century and you know how that turn out for Europe .. Europeans get so much from the Arabs in 8-10th Century ..


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## Indus Pakistan

Technogaianist said:


> I've lived in Norway for almost 27 years (27 in April), which is my whole life and I have never once encountered any problem from Norway's Pakistan population. First-generation Pakistanis only make up about .8% of our population at around 40,000 persons while people of Pakistani descent total around 300,000 persons, and they've integrated into our society better then other minority groups like Iranians or Bosnians!!
> 
> Pakistanis serve in our Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Become international music stars and producers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are hit actors in popular Norwegian shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Own fantastic restaurants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And make up a whooping 10% of all our medical students. Their population is smaller, though our second largest non-native population group, but their impact has been overwhelmingly positive.
> 
> Let's remember that in Norwegian history is wasn't outsiders posing a threat to our nation, but our own people like Breivik.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or Toska.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Norway Pakistani's have been nothing but a boon for our nation.


How could you not mention Hadia Tajik - was she not your Culture Minister? This example of successful integration and if all Pakistani moved in this direction the world would be inviting Pakistani with open arms.

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## The Sandman

Technogaianist said:


> I've lived in Norway for almost 27 years (27 in April), which is my whole life and I have never once encountered any problem from Norway's Pakistan population. First-generation Pakistanis only make up about .8% of our population at around 40,000 persons while people of Pakistani descent total around 300,000 persons, and they've integrated into our society better then other minority groups like Iranians or Bosnians!!
> 
> Pakistanis serve in our Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Become international music stars and producers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are hit actors in popular Norwegian shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Own fantastic restaurants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And make up a whooping 10% of all our medical students. Their population is smaller, though our second largest non-native population group, but their impact has been overwhelmingly positive.
> 
> Let's remember that in Norwegian history is wasn't outsiders posing a threat to our nation, but our own people like Breivik.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or Toska.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Norway Pakistani's have been nothing but a boon for our nation.


Thank you for this wonderful post ma'am didn't knew Pakistanis even served in Norwegian parliament.


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## YeBeWarned

Any Update on the Culprit ? is he in custody yet ??


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## Hyde

Technogaianist said:


> I've lived in Norway for almost 27 years (27 in April), which is my whole life and I have never once encountered any problem from Norway's Pakistan population. First-generation Pakistanis only make up about .8% of our population at around 40,000 persons while people of Pakistani descent total around 300,000 persons, and they've integrated into our society better then other minority groups like Iranians or Bosnians!!
> 
> Pakistanis serve in our Parliament.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Become international music stars and producers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are hit actors in popular Norwegian shows.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Own fantastic restaurants.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And make up a whooping 10% of all our medical students. Their population is smaller, though our second largest non-native population group, but their impact has been overwhelmingly positive.
> 
> Let's remember that in Norwegian history is wasn't outsiders posing a threat to our nation, but our own people like Breivik.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or Toska.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Norway Pakistani's have been nothing but a boon for our nation.


If you haven't tried Sweets from Madina Sweets, Tøyengata 19, 0190 Oslo, Norway, you haven't met a Pakistani

Reason: They are my relatives (brother's in laws)

@ topic

We all can agree that whatever mess we Pakistanis were involved in Pakistan and Afghanistan. We have thoroughly been very peaceful nation and have not been involved in any major incident happening in Europe, most Pakistanis just want to earn bread n butter and they are least bothered about anything else and I hope it remains that way so we don't have to face discriminaton because of some idiot

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## SOHEIL

MarkusS said:


> What do you not understand? It was Merkel who allowed 900.000 3rd. worlders wiith out documents into europe. Terrorists, criminals and rapists, primitives and savages. Our security goes down the toilet. Women cant go out alone. You must fear to get crushed from a truck when you go on a christmas market.
> 
> None of this would have happened when this disgusting Merkel would have locked down as all others demanded from day one.
> 
> Evry single victim is her responsibility.



These are same people who welcomed Isis into their cities & at the end they got nothing but a destroyed country !!!

EUROPEAN Union accepted these people without minding the consequences ...


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## Hyde

It had been widely reported that a member of the public had seen him get out of the driver’s cab and had chased him through Berlin’s streets into the central park, the Tiergarten, keeping in contact with police all the time and enabling his arrest at the Victory Column.

However, it has since emerged that the witness saw the man get out of the truck, followed him briefly and then lost sight of him. On the basis of a rudimentary description the witness gave to the police, Naved B. was arrested at the Victory Column shortly afterwards.

Police have since released him on the grounds they found no evidence against him, and say he is no longer a suspect.

He has admitted to police he was at the Christmas market as a bystander, but then ran away out of fear he might be considered a suspect.

But he had no traces of blood or gunshot residue on his clothing and blood smeared clothes and blood found in the cab did not match his blood type, police said.

Interesting read about the incident

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...-market-attack-suspect-pakistan-live-coverage

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## waz

Zaki said:


> It had been widely reported that a member of the public had seen him get out of the driver’s cab and had chased him through Berlin’s streets into the central park, the Tiergarten, keeping in contact with police all the time and enabling his arrest at the Victory Column.
> 
> However, it has since emerged that the witness saw the man get out of the truck, followed him briefly and then lost sight of him. On the basis of a rudimentary description the witness gave to the police, Naved B. was arrested at the Victory Column shortly afterwards.
> 
> Police have since released him on the grounds they found no evidence against him, and say he is no longer a suspect.
> 
> He has admitted to police he was at the Christmas market as a bystander, but then ran away out of fear he might be considered a suspect.
> 
> But he had no traces of blood or gunshot residue on his clothing and blood smeared clothes and blood found in the cab did not match his blood type, police said.
> 
> Interesting read about the incident
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...-market-attack-suspect-pakistan-live-coverage



Poor chap was probably trying to buy some German Christmas ingredients to make his own version of apna Christmas Turkey. He ended up getting chased by the German services! 

Anyway, jokes aside, it's shocking these savage terrorists are on the loose.

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## Indus Pakistan

Rather disappointed with the German Police. It's now over 24 hours and a suspect who ran away from a murder scene in city centre with lots of people around. In addition they must have CCTV in the area yet the suspect who is dangerous and could do something else crazy is still on the loose. Also the innocent Pakistani was held for too long and possibly Police concentrated too much on him while the culprit got away.

Apparently the truck cab had blood everywhere therefore whoever was in the cab would have had stains. The Pakistan suspect apparently had no traces of any blood on his clothes. That should have been very strong indicator that he was innocent. Some searching questions need answering in the weeks ahead.

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## Kabira

photo of Pakistani suspect before they released him. Damn not only they put his name out there before confirming anything but now even photo is leaked.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I don't see any news paper releasing any news retraction , or apology 

That is the world we live in , CREATE news and let it go VIRAL

There are Cameras on strees , and the feed from these come clear in 5-10 hours once the police / investigators check videos

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## KediKesenFare3

He's now publicly branded as a "terrorist" for the rest of his life.

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## foxtrot1

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I don't see any news paper releasing any news retraction , or apology
> 
> That is the world we live in , CREATE news and let it go VIRAL



No news channel said it was a pakistani. They said suspected to be a Pakistani. 
And Most probably they are leaving him because they can trace his activity. ( this is just a hypothesis which is possible)


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

foxtrot1 said:


> No news channel said it was a pakistani. They said suspected to be a Pakistani.
> And Most probably they are leaving him because they can trace his activity. ( this is just a hypothesis which is possible)




Alleged man with connection Afghan areas (which are under war for past 30 years)

German media have named the driver as Naved (or Navid) B, a 23-year-old immigrant who arrived in the country in February 2016 from the Bavarian border as a refugee.

Naved has denied any involvement in the killings and police are now said to have admitted that they have "the wrong man".


He has reportedly had a residence permit since June 2, 2016, although Spiegel warn that the documents and even the suspect’s name could be fake.

That is why you have passport and birth certificate and other documents before releasing material on Global news outlets

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## Desertfalcon

I'm glad he was released and whoever committed this act, I could give a rat's bottom what country they came from. I don't even fault the police for "profiling" him. They knew immediately that it was an act of terror and there was ample intel that such an attack was a distinct possibility. That and the MO, and face it, the obvious reality on the ground, led them to assume it was an act in support of an Islamic extremist group and the most likely suspects in Germany, are refugees, asylum seekers, etc. Unfortunately, the German police have screwed this up big time by so much focus on a guy who had nothing to do with it. That has allowed valuable time to slip by while the real culprit got away. I don't know if he will ever be caught now.

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## foxtrot1

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Alleged man with connection Afghan areas (which are under war for past 30 years)
> 
> German media have named the driver as Naved (or Navid) B, a 23-year-old immigrant who arrived in the country in February 2016 from the Bavarian border as a refugee.
> 
> Naved has denied any involvement in the killings and police are now said to have admitted that they have "the wrong man".
> 
> 
> He has reportedly had a residence permit since June 2, 2016, although Spiegel warn that the documents and even the suspect’s name could be fake.
> 
> That is why you have passport and birth certificate and other documents before releasing material on Global news outlets



In any case investigation will come to you people. To make sure and confirm the doubts.


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## Indus Pakistan

For Naved B it was case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time - I guess this was crappy day for him. Mind you compared to those dead and injured I guess he walked away unscathed.

@DESERT FIGHTER_ I think he his (Baloch) one of your lot?_

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## Reichsmarschall

foxtrot1 said:


> And Most probably they are leaving him because they can trace his activity.

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## foxtrot1

Narendra Trump said:


> View attachment 361985



There is nothing to go butt hurt.


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## Rafi

Kaptaan said:


> For Naved B it was case of being at the wrong place at the wrong time - I guess this was crappy day for him. Mind you compared to those dead and injured I guess he walked away unscathed.
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER_ I think he his (Baloch) one of your lot?_



Bro if he is Baloch, he is one of our lot. On a lighter note.

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## Indus Pakistan

Rafi said:


> Bro if he is Baloch, he is one of our lot. On a lighter note.


I know. I made a light hearted dig to @DESERT FIGHTER who I think is a Baloch.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Zaki said:


> This is exactly I had said earlier in the morning when everyone on PDF had established facts that a Pakistani is behind this terrorist activity


Actually all this happened after press conference of German chancellor. They were too quick to conclusion, That allowed real culprit free, and it was easy escape for him.


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## Saho

They should read a history book, maybe they shouldn't try and give Germany a reason to go on the march again.

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## Rafi

Kaptaan said:


> I know. I made a light hearted dig to @DESERT FIGHTER who I think is a Baloch.



Copy-That.


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## MarkusS

I hope this guy is deported quickly. He may not have done this but it came out he used multiple fake ID to steal german tax money. He is already known to police for crimes comitted last year.

1 year in germany and already criminal scum. There is no need to pity anything. Such elements have no place in europe.


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## maximuswarrior

Guess what...

*Naveed from Balochistan: relative*
A CORRESPONDENT — PUBLISHED about 4 hours ago

GWADAR: Naveed Baloch, the Pakistani who was detained briefly by German police over suspicion that he was involved in the killings in Berlin on Monday, belongs to Kech district of Balochistan, according to one of his cousins.

“Naveed Baloch came to Germany to seek asylum due to the ongoing insurgency in different areas of Balochistan,” Abdul Waheed Baloch told Dawn by telephone from Berlin late on Tuesday.

Waheed said he, Naveed and another friend were crossing a road in the area where the deadly incident took place when police stopped them and said that they would be fined for a traffic violation. Later on, they took Naveed into custody.

In the meantime, television news channels began saying that Naveed had been arrested and was a suspect in the case. *“Naveed was associated with the Baloch National Movement before leaving for Germany,”* he said, adding that his father was living in a village close to the Pak-Iran border. One of Naveed’s brothers was living in Dubai.

_Published in Dawn December 21st, 2016

http://www.dawn.com/news/1303599/naveed-from-balochistan-relative_

It gets more interesting. This fvcker isn't even supposed to be an asylum seeker. I hope Germany returns him. We need to investigate whether he has been participating against the Pakistani state. I knew something was fishy after asylum claims.



MarkusS said:


> I hope this guy is deported quickly. He may not have done this but it came out he used multiple fake ID to steal german tax money. He is already known to police for crimes comitted last year.
> 
> 1 year in germany and already criminal scum. There is no need to pity anything. Such elements have no place in europe.



Germany ought to return this scumbag to Pakistan. He was part of an illegal terror organization operating against Pakistan and funded supported by India/Afghanistan. No wonder the b@stard run off to Germany to seek asylum. He has fooled the German system.

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## Reichsmarschall

MarkusS said:


> I hope this guy is deported quickly. He may not have done this but it came out he used multiple fake ID to steal german tax money. He is already known to police for crimes comitted last year.
> 
> 1 year in germany and already criminal scum. There is no need to pity anything. Such elements have no place in europe.


you guys should be more carefull in granting Visas

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## Well.wisher

Kaptaan said:


> I have seen dogs with higher coefficient then you and your mate who I will wager good money on is living in UK while dreaming for Palestine @terry5



Mr . Kaptaan you're a 53 year old man so I won't answer you in the same language but I don't think there's anything wrong to imagine that there are no gays . 
You can imagine too .

It's easy if you TRYYYYYYhhh .. . Ehm .


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## Well.wisher

maximuswarrior said:


> Guess what...
> 
> *Naveed from Balochistan: relative*
> A CORRESPONDENT — PUBLISHED about 4 hours ago
> 
> GWADAR: Naveed Baloch, the Pakistani who was detained briefly by German police over suspicion that he was involved in the killings in Berlin on Monday, belongs to Kech district of Balochistan, according to one of his cousins.
> 
> “Naveed Baloch came to Germany to seek asylum due to the ongoing insurgency in different areas of Balochistan,” Abdul Waheed Baloch told Dawn by telephone from Berlin late on Tuesday.
> 
> Waheed said he, Naveed and another friend were crossing a road in the area where the deadly incident took place when police stopped them and said that they would be fined for a traffic violation. Later on, they took Naveed into custody.
> 
> In the meantime, television news channels began saying that Naveed had been arrested and was a suspect in the case. *“Naveed was associated with the Baloch National Movement before leaving for Germany,”* he said, adding that his father was living in a village close to the Pak-Iran border. One of Naveed’s brothers was living in Dubai.
> 
> _Published in Dawn December 21st, 2016
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1303599/naveed-from-balochistan-relative_
> 
> It gets more interesting. This fvcker isn't even supposed to be an asylum seeker. I hope Germany returns him. We need to investigate whether he has been participating against the Pakistani state. I knew something was fishy after asylum claims.
> 
> 
> 
> Germany ought to return this scumbag to Pakistan. He was part of an illegal terror organization operating against Pakistan and funded supported by India/Afghanistan. No wonder the b@stard run off to Germany to seek asylum. He has fooled the German system.



It's yet too early to accuse the innocent baloch of anything .
German minister had earlier said that naveed has no terrorist records .

Accusing him of joining baloch national party is yet too early .


----------



## maximuswarrior

Well.wisher said:


> It's yet too early to accuse the innocent baloch of anything .
> German minister had earlier said that naveed has no terrorist records .
> 
> Accusing him of joining baloch national party us yet too early .



We will await the details. I hope he is not one of those asylum seekers who has sold his soul for a nationality.

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## maximuswarrior

First it was a Pakistani all day long. Now it is a Tunisian.

*Tunisian 'sought over Berlin attack'*

German police are searching for a Tunisian man named as Anis A over Berlin market attack - reports

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38392128

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## Götterdämmerung

Guess what the "terrorist" left in the lorry!?

His ID!

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## maximuswarrior

Götterdämmerung said:


> Guess what the "terrorist" left in the lorry!?
> 
> His ID!



Don't tell me they are going to report this as credible.


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## foxtrot1

maximuswarrior said:


> First it was a Pakistani all day long. Now is a Tunisian.
> 
> *Tunisian 'sought over Berlin attack'*
> 
> German police are searching for a Tunisian man named as Anis A over Berlin market attack - reports




It has nothing to do with region, refugee and everything to do with religion.


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## maximuswarrior

foxtrot1 said:


> It has nothing to do with region, refugee and everything to do with religion.



LOL Sure thing. Just like it had to with Pakistani all day long yesterday.


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## Götterdämmerung

maximuswarrior said:


> Don't tell me they are going to report this as credible.



It's been reported by the MSM. 

All "terrorists" leave their ID or passport at the crime scene. From 9/11 to Paris to Berlin. 

Aren't they lovely and helpful to the investigators?

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## maximuswarrior

Götterdämmerung said:


> It's been reported by the MSM.
> 
> All "terrorists" leave their ID or passport at the crime scene. From 9/11 to Paris to Berlin.
> 
> Aren't they lovely and helpful to the investigators?



I'm not buying it for one moment. This is BS.

*Berlin attack: Police hunt Tunisian suspect after finding ID papers in truck*

Police are searching for a Tunisian man in his early 20s in connection with the Berlin Christmas market attack, a German security official told CNN Wednesday.

*The suspect's identity papers were found inside the cabin of the truck used in the attack, the official said.*

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/21/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html?adkey=bn

This is just so embarrassing and clumsy. I cannot find the words to describe this whole affair.


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## Götterdämmerung

maximuswarrior said:


> I'm not buying it for one moment. This is BS.
> 
> *Berlin attack: Police hunt Tunisian suspect after finding ID papers in truck*
> 
> Police are searching for a Tunisian man in his early 20s in connection with the Berlin Christmas market attack, a German security official told CNN Wednesday.
> 
> *The suspect's identity papers were found inside the cabin of the truck used in the attack, the official said.*
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/21/europe/berlin-christmas-market-truck/index.html?adkey=bn
> 
> This is just so embarrassing and clumsy. I cannot find the words to describe this whole affair.



I predict he will be shot dead. 

Want to bet?

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## maximuswarrior

Götterdämmerung said:


> I predict he will be shot dead.
> 
> Want to bet?



That would be even more outrageous and suspect.


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## Mrc

maximuswarrior said:


> First it was a Pakistani all day long. Now it is a Tunisian.
> 
> *Tunisian 'sought over Berlin attack'*
> 
> German police are searching for a Tunisian man named as Anis A over Berlin market attack - reports
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38392128




This again is too early.. no one leaves their documents in the truck after an attack... they are trying to confuse investigators

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## maximuswarrior

Mrc said:


> This again is too early.. no one leaves their documents in the truck after an attack... they are trying to confuse investigators



Perhaps. Never heard of such a ploy before though. Must be a new tactic.


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## Mrc

maximuswarrior said:


> Perhaps. Never heard of such a ploy before though. Must be a new tactic.



Has been used in pak... throwing some one elses id on the scene is oldest trick in the book


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## Hyde

*One more personal attack and you both will be banned from making further posts in this thread*

*Thank you*

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## F-22Raptor

Apparently the Berlin suspect was arrested in August carrying forged documents and was then released. He also has ties to Salafist groups in Western Germany.

This guy should have never been allowed to reside in Germany. There were red flags everywhere.

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## MarkusS

The truck driver Lukasz Urban was an absolute hero. Words cant discribe...

His body is covered by knife wounds and he got a headshot...he was still barely alive but died on the scene.

The data of the Truck and people who were there say the truck went straight for a few dozen meters where the most damage was done. And then suddenly the truck went to the right, barely missed a large tent filled with 100 people, smashed into the christmas tree and then into the stairs of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel.

Its a brandnew Scania truck. That terrorist swine did not know how to use it and had the driver as hostage ext to him to explain the systems. When that islamist swine started its rampage he took all his bravery and jumped to the driver side and started to attack the terrorist. He grabbed the steering wheel and did hold onto it even when the terrorist started to stab him with a knife. The terrorist himself got wounded. They have his blood...Before he jumped out he shot Lukasz.







Rest in Peace. 

Police also said they arrested several muslims on the spot who cheered and shouted Allahu Akbar on the terror site.

The newspaper "Die Welt" reports Muslims celebrate this attack on Facebook...

The terror suspect was already in jail and due to be deported back to the hole he came from. He was released because the patheticly weak german justice system. 

And no, they did not find his passport in the truck, they found his jacket and in his jacket was his deportation warrant.

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## F-22Raptor

MarkusS said:


> The truck driver Lukasz Urban was an absolute hero. Words cant discribe...
> 
> His body is covered by knife wounds and he got a headshot...he was still barely alive but died on the scene.
> 
> The data of the Truck and people who were there say the truck went straight for a few dozen meters where the most damage was done. And then suddenly the truck went to the right, barely missed a large tent filled with 100 people, smashed into the christmas tree and then into the stairs of the Waldorf Astoria Hotel.
> 
> Its a brandnew Scania truck. That terrorist swine did not know how to use it and had the driver as hostage ext to him to explain the systems. When that islamist swine started its rampage he took all his bravery and jumped to the driver side and started to attack the terrorist. He grabbed the steering wheel and did hold onto it even when the terrorist started to stab him with a knife. The terrorist himself got wounded. They have his blood...Before he jumped out he shot Lukasz.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rest in Peace.
> 
> Police also said they arrested several muslims on the spot who cheered and shouted Allahu Akbar on the terror site.
> 
> The newspaper "Die Welt" reports Muslims celebrate this attack on Facebook...
> 
> The terror suspect was already in jail and due to be deported back to the hole he came from. He was released because the patheticly weak german justice system.
> 
> And no, they did not find his passport in the truck, they found his jacket and in his jacket was his deportation warrant.



We hear so much about how the people who support terrorists and their ideology are only a small fraction of the Muslim community. Then you take a look at the Middle East and what's been happening around the world and realize their are many sympathizers out there. You can even find some on this forum. If they want to live in the Stone Age, then go live in the f'n Stone Age in your own countries. Leave Western societies and those that want to progress alone.


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## maximuswarrior

*Berlin truck attack: Manhunt across Europe for suspect*

A manhunt is under way across Europe's Schengen states after prosecutors identified a suspect in the lorry attack on a Berlin Christmas market.

A warrant was issued at midnight. Details were not given but media reports say the suspect is a Tunisian man named only as Anis A, born in 1992.

His residence permit was found in the cab of the lorry.

It has emerged that he was reported to counter-terrorism police last month and had been facing deportation since June.

Reports suggest he may have been injured in a struggle with the lorry driver, found murdered in the cab. The attack claimed 12 lives in all.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38392128



F-22Raptor said:


> We hear so much about how the people who support terrorists and their ideology are only a small fraction of the Muslim community. Then you take a look at the Middle East and what's been happening around the world and realize their are many sympathizers out there. You can even find some on this forum. If they want to live in the Stone Age, then go live in the f'n Stone Age in your own countries. Leave Western societies and those that want to progress alone.



Says the guy whose country fuelled Salafism by interfering in Iraq and Syria. ISIS, AQ, rebel groups etc. are all American byproducts. The world was supposed to become a safer place after the American pledge, but it hasn't. The world has become a hell. Playing blame games won't help. If the Americans for once stop playing God and just mind their own business perhaps we could all breathe a sigh of relief. There would perhaps be less fuel for Salfists and lesser refugees in Europe.

The biggest irony of all is that you talk about Salafism like it is some disease, but your country is hand and glove with the biggest supporters of Salafism. The duplicity is beyond imagination.


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## MarkusS

F-22Raptor said:


> We hear so much about how the people who support terrorists and their ideology are only a small fraction of the Muslim community. Then you take a look at the Middle East and what's been happening around the world and realize their are many sympathizers out there. You can even find some on this forum. If they want to live in the Stone Age, then go live in the f'n Stone Age in your own countries. Leave Western societies and those that want to progress alone.




In the next time we will see massives purges. Thats certain.


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## F-22Raptor

maximuswarrior said:


> *Berlin truck attack: Manhunt across Europe for suspect*
> 
> A manhunt is under way across Europe's Schengen states after prosecutors identified a suspect in the lorry attack on a Berlin Christmas market.
> 
> A warrant was issued at midnight. Details were not given but media reports say the suspect is a Tunisian man named only as Anis A, born in 1992.
> 
> His residence permit was found in the cab of the lorry.
> 
> It has emerged that he was reported to counter-terrorism police last month and had been facing deportation since June.
> 
> Reports suggest he may have been injured in a struggle with the lorry driver, found murdered in the cab. The attack claimed 12 lives in all.
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38392128
> 
> 
> 
> Says the guy whose country fuelled Salafism by interfering in Iraq and Syria. ISIS, AQ, rebel groups etc. are all American byproducts. The world was supposed to become a safer place after the American pledge, but it hasn't. The world has become hell. If the Americans for once stop playing God and just mind their own business perhaps we could all breathe a sigh of relief. Their would be less fuel for Salfists and lesser refugees in Europe.
> 
> The biggest irony of all is that you talk about Salafism like it is some disease, but your country is hand and glove with the biggest supporters of Salafism. The duplicity is beyond imagination.



If the Middle East would stop producing dictators that want to murder and enslave their own people then the US would have had no reason to intervene in the first place. How sad are your current state of affairs when you want a guy like Saddam and Assad the Butcher running the show?


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## Kabira

photo of suspect on the run

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## maximuswarrior

F-22Raptor said:


> If the Middle East would stop producing dictators that want to murder and enslave their own people then the US would have had no reason to intervene in the first place. How sad are your current state of affairs when you want a guy like Saddam and Assad the Butcher running the show?



There comes the justification. Please spare us your old sermon. No one has asked you to interfere or dispose "dictators". Stop acting like the granddaddy of this world. The people of Syria and Iraq did not ask for an American intervention. You went into Iraq based on lies and the whole world knows it. The WMDs weren't even there. You are just interested in removing "dictators" that don't tow your line. You support other dictators that obey your commands. Don't think the world is blind. You screwed up insanely
In Iraq. What we are witnessing today isn't a coincidence. Most, if not all terror related problems can be traced back to the failed US war in Iraq. All these maniacs running around have somehow ties to Iraq and Syria. This is nothing, but the bitter truth.

For God sake, leave Assad alone now. Wasn't Saddam once a great ally of the West? Didn't you support him during the Iran war? The world doesn't require American lectures about good or bad dictators. Countless Syrians have already died. Your Salafi war in Iraq and Syria has now reached the European shores. How many more people must die before we say that it is enough?

You seem so concerned about Salafism. Yet, your government trembles when they are told to cut ties with Salafi states and call a spade a spade. Your country sells weapons worth billions to Salafi states. I could go on and on. Have a deep look in the mirror before telling others about wrong and right.

I am perplexed how so many Americans have been buying BS from their governments for years. From the Bush era to Obama. Wars,
economic meltdowns etc. It is mind boggling.


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## CBU-105

F-22Raptor said:


> If the Middle East would stop producing dictators that want to murder and enslave their own people then the US would have had no reason to intervene in the first place. How sad are your current state of affairs when you want a guy like Saddam and Assad the Butcher running the show?


really, dictators that enslave ? why doesn't the US have a problem with the saudi and qatari monarchies, then ? no talk of spreading freedom and democracy to China either.. total hypocrisy. 

Good thing you'll soon have a common sense guy at the helm, fingers crossed he delivers on his promise..


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## F-22Raptor

maximuswarrior said:


> There comes the justification. Please spare us your old sermon. No one has asked you to interfere or dispose "dictators". Stop acting like the granddaddy of this world. The people of Syria and Iraq did not ask for American intervention. You went into Iraq based on lies and the whole world knows it. The WMDs weren't even there. You are just interested in removing "dictators" that don't tow your line. You support other dictators that obey your commands. Don't think the world is blind.
> 
> For God sake, leave Assad alone now. Enough Syrians have died. Your Salafi war has now reached the European shores.
> 
> You seem so concerned about Salafism. Yet, your government trembles when they are told to cut ties with Salafi states and call a spade a spade. Your country sells weapons worth billions to Salafi states. I could go on and on. Have a deep look in the mirror before telling others about wrong and right.



It's no justification, just reality. An while people like you blame America for its ills, thousands of Muslims will continue to die by the hands of Muslims. How many Muslim lives have been lost by groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Boko Haram, and Al-Shabab? Hundreds of thousands if not millions?

They don't attack the West for its interventions, they do it to shackle the world to its wicked ideology. If ISIS had the means to conquer the West they would and slaughter us all.


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## maximuswarrior

F-22Raptor said:


> It's no justification, just reality. An while people like you blame America for its ills, thousands of Muslims will continue to die by the hands of Muslims. How many Muslim lives have been lost by groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Boko Haram, and Al-Shabab? Hundreds of thousands if not millions?
> 
> They don't attack the West for its interventions, they do it to shackle the world to its wicked ideology. If ISIS had the means to conquer the West they would and slaughter us all.



You keep believing in your fabricated fairy tales whilst innocent people keep
dying in the Middle East and elsewhere. Though, stop wondering
why all of this is happening and stop looking for scapegoats. The world is wise enough to know who really is responsible for failures in Iraq/Syria. The world also knows who is further fanning a raging fire. You aren't doing anybody any favors.

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## MarkusS

maximuswarrior said:


> There comes the justification. Please spare us your old sermon. No one has asked you to interfere or dispose "dictators". Stop acting like the granddaddy of this world. The people of Syria and Iraq did not ask for an American intervention. You went into Iraq based on lies and the whole world knows it. The WMDs weren't even there. You are just interested in removing "dictators" that don't tow your line. You support other dictators that obey your commands. Don't think the world is blind. You screwed up insanely
> In Iraq. What we are witnessing today isn't a coincidence. Most, if not all terror related problems can be traced back to the failed US war in Iraq. All these maniacs running around have somehow ties to Iraq and Syria. This is nothing, but the bitter truth.
> 
> For God sake, leave Assad alone now. Wasn't Saddam once a great ally of the West? Didn't you support him during the Iran war? The world doesn't require American lectures about good or bad dictators. Countless Syrians have already died. Your Salafi war in Iraq and Syria has now reached the European shores. How many more people must die before we say that it is enough?
> 
> You seem so concerned about Salafism. Yet, your government trembles when they are told to cut ties with Salafi states and call a spade a spade. Your country sells weapons worth billions to Salafi states. I could go on and on. Have a deep look in the mirror before telling others about wrong and right.
> 
> I am perplexed how so many Americans have been buying BS from their governments for years. From the Bush era to Obama. Wars,
> economic meltdowns etc. It is mind boggling.




My opinion is that i dont care about muslims. They can kill each otehr all tehy want. They can have the most blood thirsty dictator possible. I dont care. 

All i care for is my own people.

Forza Italia has a clear concept.

Shield Europe. Same Idea that Trump wants to implement. The middle east is not my business. I have no responsibility for them.I feel zero compassion for them. 

We want no interventions. We strike back when they try to hurt us beside that contact has to be as low as possible.

I want that zero aid is wasted on them.


----------



## maximuswarrior

MarkusS said:


> My opinion is that i dont care about muslims. They can kill each otehr all tehy want. They can have the most blood thirsty dictator possible. I dont care.
> 
> All i care for is my own people.
> 
> Forza Italia has a clear concept.
> 
> Shield Europe. Same Idea that Trump wants to implement. The middle east is not my business. I have no responsibility for them.I feel zero compassion for them.
> 
> We want no interventions. We strike back when they try to hurt us beside that contact has to be as low as possible.
> 
> I want that zero aid is wasted on them.



That is your opinion, but the Americans obviously have their own ideas and thoughts.

You just have to realize that every action has a reaction. It is the law of nature. The Americans have set terrible things into motion after their failed adventures in Iraq and Syria. Blaming Muslims won't make these problems disappear. That is all I'm going to say.


----------



## jian-10

F-22Raptor said:


> It's no justification, just reality. An while people like you blame America for its ills, thousands of Muslims will continue to die by the hands of Muslims. How many Muslim lives have been lost by groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, Boko Haram, and Al-Shabab? Hundreds of thousands if not millions?
> 
> They don't attack the West for its interventions, they do it to shackle the world to its wicked ideology. If ISIS had the means to conquer the West they would and slaughter us all.


 
lol are you really that stupid? I guess ignorance really is bliss...'Murica hell yeah!

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## Rafi

MarkusS said:


> My opinion is that i dont care about muslims. They can kill each otehr all tehy want. They can have the most blood thirsty dictator possible. I dont care.
> 
> All i care for is my own people.
> 
> 
> Forza Italia has a clear concept.
> 
> Shield Europe. Same Idea that Trump wants to implement. The middle east is not my business. I have no responsibility for them.I feel zero compassion for them.
> 
> We want no interventions. We strike back when they try to hurt us beside that contact has to be as low as possible.
> 
> I want that zero aid is wasted on them.



You want zero contact. Yet you are on this forum, clear contradiction my indian friend.


----------



## F-22Raptor

maximuswarrior said:


> You keep believing in your fabricated fairy tales whilst innocent people keep
> dying in the Middle East and elsewhere. Though, stop wondering
> why all of this is happening and stop looking for scapegoats. The world is wise enough to know who is really responsible for failures in Iraq/Syria. The world also knows who is further fanning a raging fire. You aren't doing anybody any favors.



Keep comforting yourself with worthless rhetoric. Thousands of Muslims will continue to die at the hands of Muslims, and when the next suicide bomb goes off in some market in Iraq or Turkey, it'll be those "Evil Americans" to blame.


----------



## maximuswarrior

F-22Raptor said:


> Keep comforting yourself with worthless rhetoric. Thousands of Muslims will continue to die at the hands of Muslims, and when the next suicide bomb goes off in some market in Iraq or Turkey, it'll be those "Evil Americans" to blame.



Sure and you just keep denying your own dubious role in the whole affair. The world already knows how much at fault you and others are. Acting innocent won't get you a free pass. Stop wasting my time now. I have said what needed to be said. If you want to act arrogantly be my guest.


----------



## F-22Raptor

jian-10 said:


> lol are you really that stupid? I guess ignorance really is bliss...'Murica hell yeah!



I'm stupid...an yet you don't counter my argument? Whose really the fool?


----------



## MarkusS

Rafi said:


> You want zero contact. Yet you are on this forum, clear contradiction my indian friend.



Its an american forum. You cant come here and attack my family nor my friends. 

I learned alot here. How your people think.



maximuswarrior said:


> That is your opinion, but the Americans obviously have their own ideas and thoughts.
> 
> You just have to realize that every action has a reaction. It is the law of nature. The Americans have set terrible things into motion after their failed adventures in Iraq and Syria. Blaming Muslims won't make these problems disappear. That is all I'm going to say.




Trump has exactly my opinion. 

I dont blame Muslims.

We have a security concept. Concepts are build on statistics. If you remove a threat then security is higher

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## Rafi

MarkusS said:


> Its an american forum. You cant come here and attack my family nor my friends.
> 
> I learned alot here. How your people think.



It's a Pakistani forum, my little indian friend, and I already know what people like you think.


----------



## F-22Raptor

maximuswarrior said:


> Sure and you just keep denying your own dubious role in the whole affair. The world already knows how much at fault you and others are. Acting innocent won't get you a free pass. Stop wasting my time now. I have said what needed to be said. If you want to act arrogantly be my guest.



The United States pursues its own interests, good and bad, just like every other country in the world does. I never said we were innocent. My point is this goes much deeper than an intervention that happened almost 15 years ago, an yet your head is buried in sand. When Assad drops his next barrel bomb, and they find a mass burial grave of dozens of Muslims in Mosul its got to be those "dirty americans" right Max?


----------



## MarkusS

Rafi said:


> It's a Pakistani forum, my little indian friend, and I already know what people like you think.



And thats an advantage. I actually was able to use stuff that was posted and use in speeches. 

Where else can i see what they think than here?

Its our responsibility to keep Italy safe from all of this. Nothing else matters.


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## Mrc

MarkusS said:


> And thats an advantage. I actually was able to use stuff that was posted and use in speeches.
> 
> Where else can i see what they think than here?
> 
> Its our responsibility to keep Italy safe from all of this. Nothing else matters.



Not joking...but does italy even have any migrants?? I ve never heard of people making their way there...have u ever met a real life pakistani?? I mean outside cyberspace??


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## MarkusS

Mrc said:


> Not joking...but does italy even have any migrants?? I ve never heard of people making their way there...have u ever met a real life pakistani?? I mean outside cyberspace??



No i have not. All my friends are italians. And some germans and spanish. 

We have some migrants but there is little to no interaction. And those illegals refugees are put into mass camps 

But i actually had a arab girlfriend two years ago. But you would not know because she was atheist and european in culture.


----------



## Mrc

MarkusS said:


> No i have not. All my friends are italians. And some germans and spanish.
> 
> We have some migrants but there is little to no interaction. And those illegals refugees are put into mass camps
> 
> But i actually had a arab girlfriend two years ago. But you would not know because she was atheist and european in culture.




I think... with respect ... if u really want to learn some thing about muslims...do visit any islamic country... u will see many evils... but just may be u will also see some good... and alot of things done differently...

As far as migrants are concerned ... ur country... your right to allow or disallow. No arguement about it

..we have faced same issues from terrorism to drugs to weapons... due to afghan war and migration of afghans ... although having same religion, we too have suffered... i can understand your frustration


----------



## MarkusS

Mrc said:


> I think... with respect ... if u really want to learn some thing about muslims...do visit any islamic country... u will see many evils... but just may be u will also see some good... and alot of things done differently...
> 
> As far as migrants are concerned ... ur country... your right to allow or disallow. No arguement about it
> 
> ..we have faced same issues from terrorism to drugs to weapons... due to afghan war and migration of afghans ... although having same religion, we too have suffered... i can understand your frustration




Look ...

i´m well aware you find and good people evrywhere. I´m sure there are amazing people in muslim countries.

In the end you have to make a decission. Do i risk security for meeting some nice people?

I have my opinion and it grows more and more firm. 

Look...you are muslim and could not integrate afghanis. CAn you understand then that its impossible to integrate them in Italy / Europe?


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## Djinn

Rafi said:


> It's a Pakistani forum, my little indian friend, and I already know what people like you think.


I am just interested in knowing that even it were an "American Forum" Did he actually think that the likes of Donald Trump were calling the shots on defence.pk ?  But if he actually did believe that then its a bit troubling......Let's run background checks on the admin


----------



## mike2000 is back

Vergennes said:


> People literally justifying this are utterly disgusting.... which country did Germany "bomb" or "invade" ?


Germany's fault was letting in immigrants from Middle East and North Africa without any screening/checks it seems. So many delusional islamists will justify this and blame it on Germany's support for U.S led invasions. Lol. 
Not knowing that it's all due to Merkel's naive Goodwill gesture.


----------



## Djinn

MarkusS said:


> Look...you are muslim and could not integrate afghanis. CAn you understand then that its impossible to integrate them in Italy / Europe?


Yes you are right to an extent that not all migrants can integrate with ease, but the fact is not everyone is alike..........If millions of Afghans couldn't mingle with Pakistani society but n the other hand hundreds and thousands did. Similarly if some Muslims aren't able to absorb western life style it doesn't mean all Muslims can't either.


----------



## MarkusS

Djinn said:


> Yes you are right to an extent that not all migrants can integrate with ease, but the fact is not everyone is alike..........If millions of Afghans couldn't mingle with Pakistani society but n the other hand hundreds and thousands did. Similarly if some Muslims aren't able to absorb western life style it doesn't mean all Muslims can't either.



But this is our nation. It is us who have to accept this burden. And we dont want it. We owe this people nothing. 

The meassurements Forza Italia plans to do and the ones already implemented only have the goal to protect Italia.

We cant know who will adapt to our culture and who will want to kill us.

This risk can´t be taken. I´m sure you understand this.

The far right gains massive evrywhere in europe. The people want change.


----------



## Djinn

MarkusS said:


> But this is our nation. It is us who have to accept this burden. And we dont want it. We owe this people nothing.
> 
> The meassurements Forza Italia plans to do and the ones already implemented only have the goal to protect Italia.
> 
> We cant know who will adapt to our culture and who will want to kill us.
> 
> This risk can´t be taken. I´m sure you understand this.
> 
> The far right gains massive evrywhere in europe. The people want change.


I wasn't talking about Italy in particular, but even in that case I am sorry, but you are just one voice amongst millions of other Italians and irrespective of what you think or believe a sizeable amount of Muslims will always be part of the Western world whether you approve of it or not. If you believe that expelling all Muslims from Italia will some how cleanse it of all the crimes then I am sure that even you know that it's just a delusion.


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## MarkusS

Djinn said:


> I wasn't talking about Italy in particular, but even in that case I am sorry, but you are just one voice amongst millions of other Italians and irrespective of what you think or believe a sizeable amount of Muslims will always be part of the Western world whether you approve of it or not. If you believe that expelling all Muslims from Italia will some how cleanse it of all the crimes then I am sure that even you know that it's just a delusion.



I´m one voice of the millions who vote Forza Italia into power. 
It wont clean us from all crimes. But will remove a problem.

Its like having cancer and flu. Why accept the cancer? Because you still have the flu?


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## Djinn

MarkusS said:


> I´m one voice of the millions who vote Forza Italia into power.
> It wont clean us from all crimes. But will remove a problem.
> 
> Its like having cancer and flu. Why accept the cancer? Because you still have the flu?


Nope you are not.....If you were, Italy would have been Muslim free the day you started talking. 
If the flu is because of some other underlying problems like AIDS then cancer would be the least of your worries.


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## MarkusS

Djinn said:


> Nope you are not.....If you were, Italy would have been Muslim free the day you started talking.
> If the flu is because of some other underlying problems like AIDS then cancer would be the least of your worries.




Italy does not recognice Islam as religion.

Italy banned new mosques from being build and made crack down on evry mosque that was not athorizied. Clsed down dozens.

Italy implemented a law that allows speed deportation for minor offenses for Muslims. Just giving your child a wrong name like Jihad or Sharia and you and your family get deported within 2 days in speed trials. 

A single facebook post is enough for deportation. 

Thats our work. Since we rule in several regions and are at 20%.

We were able to break evry human right and force italy to even ignore the ruling of EU court of Human rights which labelled our speed deportations as injustice. Italy ignored the court and even does more speed deportations. 

IN several cities we made it impossible for muslims to open shops in the cities.

Now all this was achieved with 20%. Current polls say we rise even more and the other parties are scared. So they implement our ideas to win back voters. 

Take my hometown Lucca for example. Our party leadership send notes to all cities and said we must pay "enemy families" a visit. 

We did visit this week all 5 families in Lucca and told them they are watched. That they are not welcome and will be hold accountable if anything happenes.

In the other cities same was done. We also hand out leafleats infront their shops to warn people and becareful.


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## Djinn

MarkusS said:


> *Italy does not recognice Islam as religion.*


See that's the problem--------No matter what Muslims do they will be targeted not for their actions but for their religion and such injustice will never be without consequences. Sorry but that's the rule------------To every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, while you can denounce the reaction as much as you can to justify your action it still will happen.

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## MarkusS

Djinn said:


> See that's the problem--------No matter what Muslims do they will be targeted not for their actions but for their religion and such injustice will never be without consequences. Sorry but that's the rule------------To every action there's an equal and opposite reaction, while you can denounce the reaction as much as you can to justify your action it still will happen.



we can talk about this in mecca. What hotel would you advice me there? I hope you get it. 

look. nobody invited them here. We owe them nothing.


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## maximuswarrior

mike2000 is back said:


> Germany's fault was letting in immigrants from Middle East and North Africa without any screening/checks it seems. So many delusional islamists will justify this and blame it on Germany's support for U.S led invasions. Lol.
> Not knowing that it's all due to Merkel's naive Goodwill gesture.



We are not some Middle Eastern/Islamist forum over here. First educate yourself where Pakistan lies on the world map.

Secondly, I don't understand why Americans and Europeans come to this forum to complain about their hate love relationship with the Middle East/Islam. We can't do anything about it other than to share our opinion from our perspective based on US role in Syria and Iraq. Yes, whether you like it or not, your American ally has made royal blunders in Iraq/Syria. Don't hate us for saying it. Feel free to differ though.

You don't like to hear the Pakistani perspective? Well, I hate to remind you, but you are on a Pakistani forum. I suggest you visit a forum related to Middle Eastern affairs. I'm sure people from that region can provide you their direct assesment.

From a human perspective, there is no country on this planet which has suffered from terror as much as Pakistan has. Our children have been massacred before our eyes by those who we have provided refuge for decades. That should put things into perspective.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well obviously we hope if the person was indeed identified , he is aprehended quickly to confirm or deny his involvement.

Just really strange someone would be doing a mission and leave their "full immigration" document on scene of crime very suspicious

Since the image of the person is released it is only a matter of time when progress would be made



MarkusS said:


> I´m one voice of the millions who vote Forza Italia into power.
> It wont clean us from all crimes. But will remove a problem.
> 
> Its like having cancer and flu. Why accept the cancer? Because you still have the flu?



You know there are strains of Flu that can kill you and human vaccines don't work on it , just saying don't wish for something you can't handle. Cancer as you know is already uncurable


Today I was watching news on TV and I saw

2 Young brothers were killed by some Christian age 4, 7 

Then I saw on news Truck crippled a person crossing the road again a christian 

The I saw a news about bunch of christians beating up a 42 year old in fight outside a bar into coma (You know drunk folks fighting outside stuff happens)
So I changed the TV channel to cooking channel , no chance of Negative news

So ....just becasue these stroies don't make it on Front page do not mean Christians are Saints , Say Hello To Pope for me

May be you should also start doing some Chrity work in your city  Make Jesus proud
May be you should ask your Pope , what do I do about the Immigrants

Your pope will telll you I wash their feet







If you can't understand the meaning of this gesture then what I can I say


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## Farooq

@Oscar are you reading the monkey's posts.... he constantly insults Muslims and Islam and you admins do nothing about it


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well sometimes it is good to engage folks with alternative view just fear causes such knee jerk reaction which is quite common


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## Farooq

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Well sometimes it is good to engage folks with alternative view just fear causes such knee jerk reaction which is quite common


brother, I see your POV, but why is he allowed to use this site as a platform to spread his hatred ?

and if different POVs are accepted. Why was my response to him deleted?


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Well valid case I think Markus is a bit tunnel minded fiarly young guy , its good to see point of view of somone from other side

I have not read all comments but whenever some tradgedy happens and folks are confused the tend to react in very impulsive way.

But when you really view or think about events in Syria or even in Berlin you just can't rationalize any of it , and it is what it is.


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