# Ukraine Prepares For War. Troops on High Alert



## Hakan

​(Reuters) -* Russian President Vladimir Putin demanded and won his parliament's approval on Saturday to invade Ukraine, where the new government warned of war, put its troops on high alert and appealed to NATO for help.*

Putin's open assertion of the right to send troops to a country of 46 million people on the ramparts of central Europe creates the biggest confrontation between Russia and the West since the Cold War.

*Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk, leading a government that took power after Moscow's ally Viktor Yanukovich fled a week ago, said Russian military action "would be the beginning of war and the end of any relations between Ukraine and Russia".*

*Acting President Oleksander Turchinov ordered troops to be placed on high combat alert. Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya said he had met European and U.S. officials and sent a request to NATO to "examine all possibilities to protect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine".*

Putin's move was a direct rebuff to Western leaders who had repeatedly urged Russia not to intervene, including U.S. President Barack Obama, who just a day before had held a televised address to warn Moscow of "costs" if it acted.

Troops with no insignia on their uniforms but clearly Russian - some in vehicles with Russian number plates - have already seized Crimea, an isolated peninsula in the Black Sea where Moscow has a large military presence in the headquarters of its Black Sea Fleet. Kiev's new authorities have been powerless to stop them.

The Russian forces solidified their control of Crimea and unrest spread to other parts of Ukraine on Saturday. Pro-Russian demonstrators clashed, sometimes violently, with supporters of Ukraine's new authorities and raised the Russian flag over government buildings in several cities.

*"This is probably the most dangerous situation in Europe since the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968," said a Western official on condition of anonymity. "Realistically, we have to assume the Crimea is in Russian hands. The challenge now is to deter Russia from taking over the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine."*

*Putin asked parliament to approve force "in connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots" and to protect the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.*

The upper house swiftly delivered a unanimous "yes" vote, shown live on television.

Western capitals scrambled for a response, but it was limited to words. A U.S. official said Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had spoken to his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu. *The official said there had been no change in U.S. military posture.*

EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton urged Moscow not to send troops. Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said this would be "clearly against international law". Czech President Milos Zeman likened the crisis to the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia.

*"Urgent need for de-escalation in Crimea," tweeted NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. "NATO allies continue to coordinate closely."*

*Putin said his request for authorization to use force in Ukraine would last "until the normalization of the socio-political situation in that country". His justification - the need to protect Russian citizens - was the same as he used to launch a 2008 invasion of Georgia, where Russian forces seized two breakaway regions and recognized them as independent.*

FLAGS TORN DOWN

So far there has been no sign of Russian military action in Ukraine outside Crimea, the only part of the country with a Russian ethnic majority, which has often voiced separatist aims.

A potentially bigger risk would be conflict spreading to the rest of Ukraine, where the sides could not be easily kept apart.

As tension built on Saturday, demonstrations occasionally turned violent in eastern cities, where most people, though ethnically Ukrainian, are Russian speakers and many support Moscow and Yanukovich.

Demonstrators flew Russian flags on government buildings in the cities of Kharkiv, Donetsk, Odessa and Dnipropetrovsk.

In Kharkiv, scores of people were wounded in clashes when thousands of pro-Russian activists stormed the regional government headquarters, and fought pitched battles with a smaller number of supporters of Ukraine's new authorities.

Pro-Russian demonstrators wielded axe handles and chains against those defending the building with plastic shields.

In Donetsk, Yanukovich's home region, lawmakers declared they were seeking a referendum on the region's status.

"We do not recognize the authorities in Kiev, they are not legitimate," protest leader Pavel Guberev thundered from a podium in Donetsk.

Thousands of followers, holding a giant Russian flag and chanting "Russia, Russia" marched to the government headquarters and replaced the Ukrainian flag with Russia's.

Coal miner Gennady Pavlov said he backed Putin's declaration of the right to intervene. "It is time to put an end to this lawlessness. Russians are our brothers. I support the forces."

"WAR HAS ARRIVED"

*On Kiev's central Independence Square, where protesters camped out for months against Yanukovich, a World War Two film about Crimea was being shown on a giant screen, when Yuri Lutsenko, a former interior minister, interrupted it to announce Putin's decree. "War has arrived," Lutsenko said.*

Hundreds of Ukrainians descended on the square chanting "Glory to the heroes. Death to the occupiers."

Although there was little doubt that the troops without insignia that have already seized Crimea are Russian, the Kremlin has not yet openly confirmed it. It described Saturday's authorization as a threat for future action rather than confirmation that its soldiers are already involved.

A Kremlin spokesman said Putin had not yet decided to use force, and still hoped to avoid further escalation.

In Crimea itself, the arrival of troops was cheered by the Russian majority. In the coastal town of Balaclava, where Russian-speaking troops in armored vehicles with black Russian number plates had encircled a small garrison of Ukrainian border guards, families posed for pictures with the soldiers. A wedding party honked its car horns.

"I want to live with Russia. I want to join Russia," said Alla Batura, a petite 71-year-old pensioner who has lived in Sevastopol for 50 years. "They are good lads...They are protecting us, so we feel safe."

But not everyone was reassured. Inna, 21, a clerk in a nearby shop who came out to stare at the APCs, said: "I am in shock. I don't understand what the hell this is... People say they came here to protect us. Who knows? ... All of our (Ukrainian) military are probably out at sea by now."

The rapid pace of events has rattled the new leaders of Ukraine, who took power in a nation on the verge of bankruptcy when Yanukovich fled Kiev last week after his police killed scores of anti-Russian protesters in Kiev. Ukraine's crisis began in November when Yanukovich, at Moscow's behest, abandoned a free trade pact with the EU for closer ties with Russia.

For many in Ukraine, the prospect of a military conflict chilled the blood.

*"When a Slav fights another Slav, the result is devastating," said Natalia Kuharchuk, a Kiev accountant.

"God save us."*

Putin ready to invade Ukraine; Kiev warns of war| Reuters

Ukraine military still a formidable force despite being dwarfed by neighbour | World news | theguardian.com

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## Genesis

LOL appeal to NATO, NATO isn't what it once was, Americans cry foul at the Iraq war, imagine a war with a military with real guns.

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## Hyperion

Good luck and god speed to Ukrainian forces!

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## al-Hasani

Let them fight.

Who cares about Ukraine? Which significance does it have for anybody that is not from Russia or Ukraine? I don't see the West doing this for Ukraine but just to get a message across to Russia.

Ukraine has no other option than balancing between the West (EU) and Russia. It cannot pick one side fully if it wants to remain as it is today, meaning united as we know it.

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## 500

Shortest joke ever: the Ukrainian army.

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## Hakan

500 said:


> Shortest joke ever: the Ukrainian army.


Thats not nice.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
According to this article Russians forces have already taken control over Ukraine’s air defense control base in Feodosia and other smaller installations.

Russian armed forces seize Crimea as Putin threatens wider military invasion of Ukraine
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This article says that the Tatars could turn the Crimea into another chechnya for Russia.
Ukraine military still a formidable force despite being dwarfed by neighbour | World news | theguardian.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@al-Hasani Check this video out it has some good info. Your right its really only important to Russia.

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## Hashshāshīn

al-Hasani said:


> Let them fight.
> 
> Who cares about Ukraine? Which significance does it have for anybody that is not from Russia or Ukraine? I don't see the West doing this for Ukraine but just to get a message across to Russia.


That is a primitive mindset. If everyone said that about conflicts not affecting them, the world would be a devastating place. Everyone will commit atrocities because they'll know their will be no consequences. 

Though, I do agree with your second point. US/EU are just sending a message to Russia, but looks like Putin don't give a ****.

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## Genesis

500 said:


> Shortest joke ever: the Ukrainian army.



hey man, don't make fun of ukraine army, they sold us the biggest hoover craft and ship engines tech.

I'm sure if it came to blows they can last at least 6 minutes, maybe 8 and a half if they play their cards right.

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## al-Hasani

Hashshāshīn said:


> That is a primitive mindset. If everyone said that about conflicts not affecting them, the world would be a devastating place. Everyone will commit atrocities because they'll know their will be no consequences.
> 
> Though, I do agree with your second point. US/EU are just sending a message to Russia, but looks like Putin don't give a ****.



"Who cares" was a reference to Ukraine having little geopolitical value to anyone other than Ukraine and Russia. I know the region well. You might look at all my posts from 1 week ago where I discussed the events extensively with Russian users and others. Just see the "Ukraine civil war thread".

This is just a show. The West does not really care about Ukraine. It is only out to bother Russia. Ukraine is 1000 times more important for Russia than Ukraine is to the West. In fact it is not important to the West at all.

To tell you honestly. I have not followed the news about Ukraine at all today. Not even read the whole article that was posted in this thread. But a invasion of Ukraine is impossible. Only Crimea which is closer to Russia in every way than it is to Ukraine if we look past geography. Russia has their Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol. Russia has for 200 years if not more considered Crimea their own territory. Most of the population are ethnic Russians and Russian is spoken there. You will never hear Ukrainian spoken.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Good luck Ukraine.. God bless .

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## Doritos11

500 said:


> Shortest joke ever: the Ukrainian army.



Ukrainian air force has pretty good equipment, SU 27’s see the wiki page


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## 500

Doritos11 said:


> Ukrainian air force has pretty good equipment, SU 27’s see the wiki page


They have plenty of equipment left from USSR. But they don't have men who would use it.


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## Juice

Genesis said:


> hey man, don't make fun of ukraine army, they sold us the biggest hoover craft and ship engines tech.
> 
> I'm sure if it came to blows they can last at least 6 minutes, maybe 8 and a half if they play their cards right.


Plus that mighty AC you guys are so proud of.

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## Genesis

Juice said:


> Plus that mighty AC you guys are so proud of.



I know you are trying to make fun of our carrier, but the fact of the matter is this, only China and US had the ability to put that thing into action. 

IF you know much of restoring vintage cars, you would know how much work it is than to fix a new car.

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## Hashshāshīn

al-Hasani said:


> "Who cares" was a reference to Ukraine having little geopolitical value to anyone other than Ukraine and Russia. I know the region well. You might look at all my posts from 1 week ago where I discussed the events extensively with Russian users and others. Just see the "Ukraine civil war thread".
> 
> This is just a show. The West does not really care about Ukraine. It is only out to bother Russia. Ukraine is 1000 times more important for Russia than Ukraine is to the West. In fact it is not important to the West at all.
> 
> To tell you honestly. I have not followed the news about Ukraine at all today. Not even read the whole article that was posted in this thread. But a invasion of Ukraine is impossible. Only Crimea which is closer to Russia in every way than it is to Ukraine if we look past geography. Russia has their Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol. Russia has for 200 years if not more considered Crimea their own territory. Most of the population are ethnic Russians and Russian is spoken there. You will never hear Ukrainian spoken.


I know, I actually support Russia. Russia needs to take control of their equipment in Crimea. The new neo-Nazi regime should not have access to them. I read some of the chants the done: "**** niggers, Jews and Russians" and calling for a new holocaust etc.


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## Full Moon

It looks like Putin wants to reinstate Russian imperial dreams again. The U.S' tolerance of the Russian involvement in the Syrian war could have been seen by the Russians as an indication. 

Also, the Russian world-wide sale of arms during Obama's presidency is somehow historical.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> hey man, don't make fun of ukraine army, they sold us the biggest hoover craft and ship engines tech.
> 
> I'm sure if it came to blows they can last at least 6 minutes, maybe 8 and a half if they play their cards right.



In fact, GT25000 was an half-done product, and Ukraine didn't have the money and human capital to accomplish it.

This gas turbine is 50% Chinese in both investment and technology.

Nevertheless, Ukraine still helped us a lot, and we don't hope they keep suffering from this political chaos.


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## al-Hasani

In short Russia is not going to allow all of Ukraine to fall into the hand of EU/NATO/WEST. It's after all Russia's neighborhood. Ukraine formed the industrial backbone of the Soviet Union and the agricultural backbone of Tsarist Russia for centuries. Millions of ethnic Russians live in Southern and Eastern Ukraine.

The most drastic that can happen is a repeat of the the events we saw in Georgia during the Olympics in 2008 and after that possibly a split of Ukraine into a "proper ethnic Ukrainian Ukraine" and a Russian/Russified/Russian speaking Ukraine. The later might probably join Russia formally or form a union or serve as a client state just as much as Belarus does.

But it is interesting indeed and I have some reading to do because it seems that a lot happened today.

Basically it all comes down to the Russians fearing Western influence next to their borders. They want Ukraine to be a vassal state that rely on them economically, politically etc. so Gazprom and others can continue to sell gas to them.

Last it is interesting to know that the Russian oligarchy, basically the rulers of the country, and the Ukrainian ones have very close business ties. So it's in neither interest to see a Western and democratic Ukraine.

BTW I dislike Putin btw but would love him as a leader if .

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## Hashshāshīn

Full Moon said:


> It looks like Putin wants to reinstate Russian imperial dreams again. The U.S' tolerance of the Russian involvement in the Syrian war could have been seen by the Russians as an indication.
> 
> Also, the Russian world-wide sale of arms during Obama's presidency is somehow historical.


Lmao, Russia's imperial dreams? the 20 or so countries US invaded were nothing, right? Who the phuck are the US that Russia should care about their 'tolerance'?

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## al-Hasani

Hashshāshīn said:


> I know, I actually support Russia. Russia needs to take control of their equipment in Crimea. The new neo-Nazi regime should not have access to them. I read some of the chants the done: "**** niggers, Jews and Russians" and calling for a new holocaust etc.



Actually I dislike Russia's foreign policy and how they have treated the Muslim people that they have conquered. Some recently and some long ago. But neither party in Ukraine is innocent and I don't particular like the fascists in Western Ukraine either.

In short this conflict comes handy looking from my perspective which is a perspective that says that Russia should gtfo Syria.

As a Pakistnai and possibly Pashtun you should also know all about their crimes in Afghanistan during the 1980's. They made the Americans look like a picnic.

But Russians as a people are actually not that bad. Many Arab-Russian intermarriages and quite a lot of Arabs studied in Russia during the Cold War from regimes that were pro-Russian.

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## flamer84

May God bless the Ukrainian patriots who will stand and fight for their country.

I'm still hoping that it won't come to war at the last moment.

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## al-Hasani

flamer84 said:


> May God bless the Ukrainian patriots who will stand and fight for their country.
> 
> I'm still hoping that it won't come to war at the last moment.



In case this happens the Ukrainian army will get annihilated since EU/NATO will not help them. Ukraine is too insignificant for that to happen.

Of course one should not hope for an civil war but if that happens I hope that KSA and others will give Russia the medicine we gave to them in Chechnya. Knowing their behavior in Syria.

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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> In short Russia is not going to allow all of Ukraine to fall into the hand of EU/NATO/WEST. It's after all Russia's neighborhood. Ukraine formed the industrial backbone of the Soviet Union and the agricultural backbone of Tsarist Russia for centuries. Millions of ethnic Russians live in Southern and Eastern Ukraine.
> 
> The most drastic that can happen is a repeat of the the events we saw in Georgia during the Olympics in 2008 and after that possibly a split of Ukraine into a "proper ethnic Ukrainian Ukraine" and a Russian/Russified/Russian speaking Ukraine. The later might probably join Russia formally or form a union or serve as a client state just as much as Belarus does.
> 
> But it is interesting indeed and I have some reading to do because it seems that a lot happened today.
> 
> Basically it all comes down to the Russians fearing Western influence next to their borders. They want Ukraine to be a vassal state that rely on them economically, politically etc. so Gazprom and others can continue to sell gas to them.
> 
> Last it is interesting to know that the Russian oligarchy, basically the rulers of the country, and the Ukrainian ones have very close business ties. So it's in neither interest to see a Western and democratic Ukraine.
> 
> BTW I dislike Putin btw but would love him as a leader if .



That's why Putin cannot cave in, otherwise it would be the end of Russia.

Russia's strategic missile troops now are fully ready, if the US dares to directly intervene, then it will most likely trigger the WWIII with Russia fires perhaps thousand nukes onto the US soil.

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> The US and its allies, including you guys, are transvestites. If anything, you should be glad Russia tolerates you guys not to send you back to the good ol' days of Islam.



What you talking about? Drunk? The amount of weirdos you see on the internet and in real life is probably the highest in Russia of all places. All you to do is make a few google searches and see the goodies for yourself. No disrespect. Lastly what has Islam to do with this? You follow Christianity yourself probably, at least most of your population does. That's an religion that also appeared in the ME among Semitic people.

You know very well that you were humiliated during the Cold War and erupted due to you not standing a chance against the Western world and its powerhouse. In fact give China a few more years and they are going to take your place as the main rival of the West. You will by then just side with them.

Russia has so many problems. Corruption, poverty, lack of quality products produced indigenously aside from partially the military sector, a declining population etc.

The most funny thing is that the Russian elite is more Western than the Westerners themselves. Just look at your rulers personal life and where some of his family life despite him being the ruler of Russia.

I know that you like to compare yourself to USA but Russia comparing itself with USA is frankly laughable.


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## flamer84

al-Hasani said:


> In case this happens the Ukrainian army will get annihilated since EU/NATO will not help them. Ukraine is too insignificant for that to happen.
> 
> Of course one should not hope for an civil war but if that happens I hope that KSA and others will give Russia the medicine we gave to them in Chechnya. Knowing their behavior in Syria.



The Ukrainian army is not that weak.Their biggest problem right now is the leadership and how many soldiers have pro russian views and will betray them.They have massive former SU equipment but few of it is modern or in working conditions.

From what i'm hearing the Crimeea is allready lost,ukrainian units there surrendered or switched allegiance.Some ukrainian navy ships simply hoisted the russian flag,others were seized while some managed to flee the Crimeea for other ukrainian ports.

Ukrainian nationalists called for chechens to rise up and for Doku Umarov to start a campaign in the Caucasus( some of the ukrainian nationalists actually fought the russians alongside the chechens in the 90's).

Let's wait and see.

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## Hakan



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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> What you talking about? Drunk? The amount of weirdos you see on the internet and in real life is probably the highest in Russia of all places. All you to do is make a few google searches and see the goodies for yourself. No disrespect. Lastly what has Islam to do with this? You follow Christianity yourself probably, at least most of your population does. That's an religion that also appeared in the ME among Semitic people.
> 
> You know very well that you were humiliated during the cold war and erupted due to you not standing a chance against the Western world and its powerhouse. *In fact give China a few more years and they are going to take your place as the main rival of the West. You will by then just side with them.*
> 
> Russia has so many problems. Corruption, poverty, lack of quality products produced indigenously aside from partially the military sector, a declining population etc.
> 
> I know that you like to compare yourself to USA but Russia comparing itself with USA is frankly laughable.



Nah, we are not the aggressors like the West, and we also hope that we can boost our trade with Russia.

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## KingMamba

al-Hasani said:


> What you talking about? Drunk? The amount of weirdos you see on the internet and in real life is probably the highest in Russia of all places. All you to do is make a few google searches and see the goodies for yourself. No disrespect. Lastly what has Islam to do with this? You follow Christianity yourself probably, at least most of your population does. That's an religion that also appeared in the ME among Semitic people.
> 
> You know very well that you were humiliated during the Cold War and erupted due to you not standing a chance against the Western world and its powerhouse. In fact give China a few more years and they are going to take your place as the main rival of the West. You will by then just side with them.
> 
> Russia has so many problems. Corruption, poverty, lack of quality products produced indigenously aside from partially the military sector, a declining population etc.
> 
> The most funny thing is that the Russian elite is more Western than the Westerners themselves. Just look at your rulers personal life and where some of his family life despite him being the ruler of Russia.
> 
> I know that you like to compare yourself to USA but Russia comparing itself with USA is frankly laughable.



Google krokodil he is probably on that stuff lol.

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## Arzamas 16

al-Hasani said:


> Russia has so many problems. Corruption, poverty, lack of quality products produced indigenously aside from partially the military sector,* a declining population *etc.
> 
> The most funny thing is that the Russian elite is more Western than the Westerners themselves. Just look at your rulers personal life and where some of his family life despite him being the ruler of Russia.
> 
> I know that you like to compare yourself to USA but Russia comparing itself with USA is frankly laughable.




We are fixing our problems one by one



> As of 2013, Russian TFR of 1.72 children per woman[5] was the highest in Eastern, Southern and Central Europe.* In 2013, Russia experienced the first natural population growth since 1990 at 22,700 people.* Taking into account immigration, the population grew by 294,500 people.




Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## al-Hasani

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Nah, we are not the aggressors like the West, and we also hope that we can boost our trade with Russia.



It's not about being aggressors or not. That's not the policy of China. That's why us non-Western people like you. Not only due to that.

Russia have once been an ally of the Arab world and still is when it comes to many Arab countries but what they have done historically to the indigenous Muslim populations is something most have to condemn when looking at it objectively. Let alone what they are doing in Syria. This makes us dislike them. Only due to that. As I said most ordinary Russians are good people.

But he should not talk all that big talk like many deluded Russian posters do on this forum. They probably forget their humiliation during the Cold War. Despite using all their money on the military and people living like sheep.



Arzamas 16 said:


> population grew by 294,500 people.
> 
> Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That's all good but look at all the predictions until 2050. Does not look good. I know that you are going to post a lot of irrelevant Russian sources now but we have discussed this 1000's of time. It did not work for you before and it is not going to work now. So let us leave it.

Still my points stand and history is my witness and the reality. Good luck arguing against that.

Basically take all the recognized population predictions and see that this will happen in all of Europe outside of a few Western countries. Already now most have a too big elderly population. That's not how you are going to move forward as a country or improve your economy and thus power on all fronts.

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## Chinese-Dragon

It would be utter foolishness for Ukraine to start fighting against Russia.

Georgia did that, and the result was obvious.

Neither NATO or the West are going to support Ukraine.

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## Edevelop

WW 1 started from Eastern Europe. Now it looks like history will repeat.

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## flamer84

Kaan said:


>




LOL

Now they should deliver but i have my doubts.If they were united they could have had a chance but imagine how soldiers/officers feel when they see some of their comrades simply deserting to the enemy.Add this to low finances,small upgrades to the equipment they had over the years and the blow to morale is crushing.

Read on other forums that the 39 MIG-29's they had on an airbase in Crimeewa are in russian hands.Some tried to escape but where intercepted on the tarmac by russian forces.

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## al-Hasani

flamer84 said:


> The Ukrainian army is not that weak.Their biggest problem right now is the leadership and how many soldiers have pro russian views and will betray them.They have massive former SU equipment but few of it is modern or in working conditions.
> 
> From what i'm hearing the Crimeea is allready lost,ukrainian units there surrendered or switched allegiance.Some ukrainian navy ships simply hoisted the russian flag,others were seized while some managed to flee the Crimeea for other ukrainian ports.
> 
> Ukrainian nationalists called for chechens to rise up and for Doku Umarov to start a campaign in the Caucasus( some of the ukrainian nationalists actually fought the russians alongside the chechens in the 90's).
> 
> Let's wait and see.



Well weak or not they will not stand a chance against Russia. I might criticize Russia due to their leadership and past historic leaderships and their actions that 99% of all other Russians had nothing to do with, but Russia is Russia military. 

Yes. Ukraine became independent in 1991. The people who are soldiers, generals, officers etc. right now, aside from the new recruits, are all people from the old system.

Yes, that's the only sensible thing they could have done.

Chechens are finished. Not that they could cause any big problems aside from few bombing attacks or attacks on Russian troops and interests. What they can do is make Russia unsafe and spread chaos and make them fight on more than 1 front.

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## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> What you talking about? Drunk? The amount of weirdos you see on the internet and in real life is probably the highest in Russia of all places. All you to do is make a few google searches and see the goodies for yourself. No disrespect. Lastly what has Islam to do with this? You follow Christianity yourself probably, at least most of your population does. That's an religion that also appeared in the ME among Semitic people.
> 
> You know very well that you were humiliated during the Cold War and erupted due to you not standing a chance against the Western world and its powerhouse. In fact give China a few more years and they are going to take your place as the main rival of the West. You will by then just side with them.
> 
> Russia has so many problems. Corruption, poverty, lack of quality products produced indigenously aside from partially the military sector, a declining population etc.
> 
> The most funny thing is that the Russian elite is more Western than the Westerners themselves. Just look at your rulers personal life and where some of his family life despite him being the ruler of Russia.
> 
> I know that you like to compare yourself to USA but Russia comparing itself with USA is frankly laughable.



I guess chewing on livers of human beings has made you a bit dense. Look at the current situation how your western overlords can do nothing but sit and bark. Russia tolerates you animals, not the other way around.

And dont assume anything about me unless you want to look like an even bigger *** than you already are.

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> I guess chewing on livers of human beings has made you a bit dense. Look at the current situation how your western overlords can do nothing but sit and bark. Russia tolerates you animals, not the other way around.
> 
> And dont assume anything about me unless you want to look like an even bigger *** than you already are.



Dear, I love how you are propagandizing and making the whole Syrian opposition into cannibals because one disturbed individual took a bite of a dead soldiers liver. That individual is dead and that individual lost most of his family in a massacre committed by the "army" that your leadership supports. Hence no wonder that he went berserk. He likely had mental problems before that so that was only a toxic addition.

At least FSA is not killing civilians in the thousands and committing massacres against children, elders etc. ISIS and other lunatics, that Al-Asshead ironically never attacks, are not part of the recognized opposition. In fact they are killing the Syrian opposition more than Al-Asshead.

Russia is of no significance in this department. You never touched the Arab world and never will.

Speaking about animals then Russians probably have the world record in killing most of their own. How many millions did the GEORGIAN Stalin that ruled your *** for decades kill of Russians? 15+ million plus? How many Russian did the Jewish dominated Communists/Bolsheviks kill? How many Russians did the German Tsar's kill? Millions upon millions.
It's not more than 80 years ago that millions of you died in famines and where you were eating each other to survive. Speaking about cannibals. Might have heard about that unless the Soviets removed that part of history.

You are just a hot ballon. Stick to bothering "mighty" Belarus, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Ukraine and other such poor and largely insignificant countries.
After all when you tried to pick up a fight against equals (USA) you got your *** kicked in more than 1 way.

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## flamer84

In my opinion steps that have to be taken.

1.Immediate bombing of Assad forces regime at full speed and topling of Assad.

2.Russian Black Sea Fleet constrained to the Black Sea by closing of the Bosphorus.

3.More funding and backing for separatist forces all over Russia despite their afiliation.

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## Arzamas 16

al-Hasani said:


> *That's all good but look at all the predictions until 2050.* Does not look good. I know that you are going to post a lot of irrelevant Russian sources now but we have discussed this 1000's of time. It did not work for you before and it is not going to work now. So let us leave it.




Those same predictions said that by 2014 Russian population would declining by 600,000 people year and *accelerating* 

That alone pretty much says everything about their accuracy.

Anyway this is off topic


----------



## al-Hasani

flamer84 said:


> In my opinion steps that have to be taken.
> 
> 1.Immediate bombing of Assad forces regime at full speed and topling of Assad.
> 
> 2.Russian Black Sea Fleet constrained to the Black Sea by closing of the Bosphorus.
> 
> 3.More funding and backing for separatist forces all over Russia despite their afiliation.



Unfortunately I am afraid that this could potentially start a WW3 or at least a major conflict. Not what is needed right now and I highly doubt that the West is going to do all that just for the sake of Crimea.


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## ChineseTiger1986

flamer84 said:


> In my opinion steps that have to be taken.
> 
> 1.Immediate bombing of Assad forces regime at full speed and topling of Assad.
> 
> 2.Russian Black Sea Fleet constrained to the Black Sea by closing of the Bosphorus.
> 
> 3.More funding and backing for separatist forces all over Russia despite their afiliation.



2. Turkey doesn't want to mess with Russia.

3. The separatists in Russia are done.


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## al-Hasani

Arzamas 16 said:


> Those same predictions said that by 2014 Russian population would declining by 600,000 people year and *accelerating*
> 
> That alone pretty much says everything about their accuracy.
> 
> Anyway this is off topic



Ok, then please show me the future predictions of the Russian population according to the sources that you use. Because virtually all sources state that the Russian population is only going to decline.


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## Edevelop

Source: The Telegraph

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## flamer84

al-Hasani said:


> Unfortunately I am afraid that this could potentially start a WW3 or at least a major conflict. Not what is needed right now and I highly doubt that the West is going to do all that just for the sake of Crimea.



We will burn eventually if the russians are left unchecked.If you don't want to go head on like in the Ukraine a harsh answer has to be given via indirect routes.


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## waz

Like it or not the Russians protect their interests and more importantly their people. You have to give them credit where it is due. 

I for one have been very uncomfortable with all this "revolution" talk and the ethnic Russians have literally been left out in the cold. Just what did they think was going to happen when they got rid of Russian as an official language? They felt threatened and vulnerable and called upon their only ally and that is Russia.

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Nice try but those are the most tired excuses Ive ever heard, you guys are cannibal savages and the whole world knows it.
> 
> And The Russian AK47 has killed millions of you savages without us even trying.
> 
> And what is a damn saudi doing in a thread about Ukraine anyway? Dont you have some sheeps to herd / women to whip / cousins to marry?



Who told you that I am a full-blooded Saudi Arabian? Maybe I have interests or ties to the region who knows? Anyway you are not very clever that I can see.

No, those are not excuses but simply HISTORICAL FACTS. Google what a HISTORICAL FACT means.

Nobody in the Arab world has died in the millions. Ever. Maybe during the Mongols but they killed millions of you and occupied what is now Russia for centuries unlike the Arab world.

More Russians were killed by the Georgian Stalin than Arabs have ever killed each other in the past 3000 years. Long before you existed as a people.

Why do you care about my interests? This is a free forum. Everybody can comment. We don't need your approval Boris.

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## SiCiSi

flamer84 said:


> We will burn eventually if the russians are left unchecked.If you don't want to go head on like in the Ukraine a harsh answer has to be given via indirect routes.



The best part is, no one in the world can do anything about it. Russia is coming whether you like it or not.

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## flamer84

SiCiSi said:


> The best part is, no one in the world can do anything about it. Russia is coming whether you like it or not.



Oki doki.See you when i'm interned in the Gulag than.

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## The SiLent crY

That's good . Any action against the west and it's supporters is good .

Good Luck Russia

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## al-Hasani

flamer84 said:


> Oki doki.See you when i'm interned in the Gulag than.



If he says otherwise they will send him to Siberia to do labor work for the next 20 years. No Russian vodka for him anymore.

Or the Jewish Russian mafia will come after him.

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## F117

SiCiSi said:


> The best part is, no one in the world can do anything about it. Russia is coming whether you like it or not.


I welcome our new Russian overlords!

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## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> Who told you that I am a full-blooded Saudi Arabian? Maybe I have interests or ties to the region who knows? Anyway you are not very clever that I can see.
> 
> No, those are not excuses but simply HISTORICAL FACTS. Google what a HISTORICAL FACT means.
> 
> Nobody in the Arab world has died in the millions. Ever. Maybe during the Mongols but they killed millions of you and occupied what is now Russia for centuries unlike the Arab world.
> 
> More Russians were killed by the Georgian Stalin than Arabs have ever killed each other in the past 3000 years. Long before you existed as a people.
> 
> Why do you care about my interests? This is a free forum. Everybody can comment. We don't need your approval Boris.



Who cares about history? You guys band together with your nato overlords and cant even break Syria for what now? 3 years now? lol. 

Like I said, transvestities.


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## al-Hasani

F117 said:


> I welcome our new Russian overlords!



Also when they invaded you and took your lands forever?


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## KAL-EL

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's why Putin cannot cave in, otherwise it would be the end of Russia.
> 
> Russia's strategic missile troops now are fully ready, if the US dares to directly intervene, then it will most likely trigger the WWIII with *Russia fires perhaps thousand nukes onto the US soil*.




lol you sit back nice and comfy in your host western country always talking "nuking this and nuking that" like nuclear war is a video game. Any sane person knows that any nuclear attack on US soil would result in swift and massive nuclear retaliation. Or, are you that delusional to think the US would just sit there and let itself be nuked with no retaliation. So, if in your genocidal dream all out nuclear war happens, the Ukraine will be the last thing anyone thinks about. News flash! Nuclear war isn't a video game, it's real life. People won't respawn.

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## SiCiSi

F117 said:


> I welcome our new Russian overlords!


Better than those cannibals you live next to. Dont worry we will bring a lot of bug spray to rid the area of cockroaches lol.

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## F117

al-Hasani said:


> Also when they invaded you and took your lands forever?


We had an empire. Mongols had an empire. Britain had an empire. Japan had an empire.

But I am personally a Russophile, beside a Safavid.


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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Who cares about history? You guys band together with your nato overlords and cant even break Syria for what now? 3 years now? lol.
> 
> Like I said, transvestities.



And since when have you won the battle in Syria? As of now our faction controls more than half of Syria. Nobody is an overlord. That's called an ally.

What is it with you and transvestites?

In case you have not noticed then we Arabs never had a problem with getting off-spring. You know children. In fact our populations are rapidly growing while your is declining. So who is more likely to be a gay or transvestite? You do the math.
Arabs are the second largest ethnic group in the world after the Han Chinese.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KAL-EL said:


> lol you sit back nice and comfy in your host western country always talking "nuking this and nuking that" like nuclear war is a video game. Any sane person knows that any nuclear attack on US soil would result in swift and massive nuclear retaliation. Or, are you that delusional to think the US would just sit there and let itself be nuked with no retaliation. So, if in your genocidal dream all out nuclear war happens, the Ukraine will be the last thing anyone thinks about. News flash! Nuclear war isn't a video game, it's real life.



Ukraine has no significance to USA at all, so it is not worthy for USA to trigger a MAD with Russia just for Ukraine.


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## al-Hasani

F117 said:


> We had an empire. Mongols had an empire. Britain had an empire. Japan had an empire.
> 
> But I am personally a Russophile, beside a Safavid.



Your empire ended 1400 years ago. The Safavids were not a real empire. They were Turkic btw. Still you are cheering for your conquerors (most recent ones if I recall). Strange but whatever floats your boat. Are you an anti-Western Mullah despite living in the Netherlands?

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## HRK

al-Hasani said:


> Let them fight.
> Who cares about Ukraine? Which significance does it have for anybody that is not from Russia or Ukraine? I don't see the West doing this for Ukraine but just to get a message across to Russia.
> 
> Ukraine has no other option than balancing between the West (EU) and Russia. It cannot pick one side fully if it wants to remain as it is today, meaning united as we know it.



No my dear this is not the case this development will surely cause effects upon the regions around it, if you are considering it as a simple matter b/w Ukraine & Russia than you are mistaken.

Its not about Ukraine but about 'Black Sea Region', just look at the map this situation will have a direct impact on Turkey, which will Indirectly effect Middle East as well, more complication ahead in regional politics ..... lots of possibilities ....who knows what will happen next







Basically, it was a soft encroachment of EU and US in Russian backyard, which Russian retaliate in a bit harsh manner. If the future events occurs as expected, than US and EU might not respond militarily but would prefer a strategy some what similar to first Afghan war.

In that case, Turkey is the only Nation in the region having reliable defence apparatus in place, but currently suffering from* internal political turmoil*, to influence the future events in this region *a strong, progressive and developing ally of the west is necessary*.

Tukey is a member *NATO alliance and could be helpful to engage and organize Tatar population in the region. *

Syria is an old ally of Russia having sizable *Kurd* populations, this factor will be valuable for Russians to disturb or influence Turkey, but KSA don't like Assad regime .....

now say who cares .....

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## KAL-EL

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ukraine has not significance to USA at all, so it is not worthy for USA to trigger a MAD with Russia just for Ukraine.



There is not going to be WW3 over the Ukraine.


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## Chinese-Dragon

KAL-EL said:


> Nuclear war isn't a video game, it's real life.
> 
> *People won't respawn.*



Dear God(s), why not?

Anyway, if you make a huge mistake, you can always go back and load the last saved game.

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## pakdefender

its georgia all over again, EU/US like to poke Russia in the eye through influence in the ex republics of the USSR but they abandon their supporters when Russia steps in militarily., same happened in Georgia


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## F117

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ukraine has not significance to USA at all, so it is not worthy for USA to trigger a MAD with Russia just for Ukraine.


I think they will sanction Russian oligarchs and politicians who have their money in American and European banks.


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## Dazzler

its rather sad to see the former Soviet armour technology hub going to be devestated, you never know

ukraine's armour is still better in terms of technology than that of Russia's but ukrainians dont stand a chance when it comes down to numbers. 

BM Oplots, BM Bulats vs T-90Ms, T-72BUs etc, or should i say Uralvaganzavods vs. KMDBs

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## ChineseTiger1986

KAL-EL said:


> There is not going to be WW3 over the Ukraine.



Of course, there won't, because USA won't do anything against Russia's re-annexation of Ukraine.


----------



## KAL-EL

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Dear God(s), why not?
> 
> Anyway, if you make a huge mistake, you can always go back and load the last saved game.



Well my friend, I certainly wish it could be like that in real life.

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## Dazzler

pakdefender said:


> its georgia all over again




Georgia vs. Ukraine? Ukraine could have chewed Georgia for breakfast.


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## ChineseTiger1986

F117 said:


> I think they will sanction Russian oligarchs and politicians who have their money in American and European banks.



No one gives a fck about those greedy tycoons, but if they want to sanction Putin's regime, then China will economically back Russia for sure.

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## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> And since when have you won the battle in Syria? As of now our faction controls more than half of Syria. Nobody is an overlord. That's called an ally.
> 
> What is it with you and transvestites?
> 
> In case you have not noticed then we Arabs never had a problem with getting off-spring. You know children. In fact our populations are rapidly growing while your is declining. So who is more likely to be a gay or transvestite? You do the math.
> Arabs are the second largest ethnic group in the world after the Han Chinese.



Its your nature though, you guys are cowards from beginning to end. And Russia is toying with you guys in Syria, didnt 175 of you rats get your 72 virgins just a few days back out there? Then theres Iran right next door, enough to make your dirty bed sheets even dirtier. 

Seriously, dont mistake us tolerating you animals as comedic relief for weakness.

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## al-Hasani

HRK said:


> No my dear this is not the case this development will surely cause effects upon the regions around it, if you are considering it as a simple matter b/w Ukraine & Russia than you are mistaken.
> 
> Its not about Ukraine but about 'Black Sea Region', just look at the map this situation will have a direct impact on Turkey, which will Indirectly effect Middle East as well, more complication ahead in regional politics ..... lots of possibilities ....who knows what will happen next
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, it was a soft encroachment of EU and US in Russian backyard, which Russian retaliate in a bit harsh manner. If the future events occurs as expected, than US and EU might not respond militarily but would prefer a strategy some what similar to first Afghan war.
> 
> In that case, Turkey is the only Nation in the region having reliable defence apparatus in place, but currently suffering from* internal political turmoil*, to influence the future events in this region *a strong, progressive and developing ally of the west is necessary*.
> 
> Tukey is a member *NATO alliance and could be helpful to engage and organize Tatar population in the region. *
> 
> Syria is an old ally of Russia having sizable *Kurd* populations, this factor will be valuable for Russians , but KSA don't like Assad regime now .....
> 
> now say who cares .....



@HRK 

What? I think it is pretty clear and what I wrote in the beginning is pretty much the consensus among all analysts and people familiar with the situation and various experts. The value of Ukraine is several times bigger for Russia than it is for the West and the West is not ready to start a major conflict for the sake of Crimea and possibly other pro-Russian parts of Ukraine.

What Black Sea? Russia is already the main power in the Black Sea and that will never change. Turkey is second and that will never change either. What does Crimea or not add to the larger picture? Nothing. Russia is already in control of the main port in Crimea, Sevastopol. The headquarter of their Black Sea Fleet. 

Turkey have no chance alone against Russia. This is about NATO/EU as a whole against Russia and their allies in the region. Not NATO country x in Europe against Russia as a whole.

The Crimean Tatars form about 10-12% of Crimea's population. They are not a significant player. You think that Russia, who controls Crimea and which has a majority Russian ethnic population (by far) would allow an Crimean Tatar independent homeland? You got to be kidding.

What has Kurds to do with anything here? Turkey already borders Iraqi Kurdistan. Which is significantly bigger than any possible Kurdish autonomous region in Syria. Nothing changes here.
I know that Putin backs al-Asshead that's why I am against them. If they changed their position I would be indifferent to this conflict.

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## Arzamas 16

al-Hasani said:


> Ok, then please show me the future predictions of the Russian population according to the sources that you use. Because virtually all sources state that the Russian population is only going to decline.



Here you go



> NOVO-OGARYOVO (Moscow region). Feb 27 (Interfax) -* Labor Minister Maxim Topilin said Russia's population could increase to 150 million people instead of the projected 145 million in 2020-2025. *"According to our calculations, we can exceed the projected figure of 145 million by 2020-2025, reaching 147 million people, or, according to optimistic predictions, even 150 million people," Topilin said at the meeting of the presidential council on the implementation of priority projects and demographic policy held in Novo-Ogaryovo on Tuesday.




Russia's population can increase in 2020-2025 - labor minister - Interfax



al-Hasani said:


> In case you have not noticed then we Arabs never had a problem with getting off-spring. You know children. In fact our populations are rapidly growing *while your is declining*.

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## pakdefender

Dazzler said:


> Georgia vs. Ukraine? Ukraine could have chewed Georgia for breakfast.


 
by Georgia all over again , I meant that the same way US/EU prodded Georgia along to go against Russian interests , they did the same with Ukraine and when Russia stepped in militarily US/EU abandonded Georgia to face Russia on their own , same will happen in Ukraine , there will not be military support given to them by US/EU.

People in Ukraine are not part of white western christianity , if Ukraine was an country which was part of white wetern christainity then the EU/US reaction would have been different.


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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Its your nature though, you guys are cowards from beginning to end. And Russia is toying with you guys in Syria, didnt 175 of you rats get your 72 virgins just a few days back out there? Then theres Iran right next door, enough to make your dirty bed sheets even dirtier.
> 
> Seriously, dont mistake us tolerating you animals as comedic relief for weakness.



Haha, an Russian animal that was raped and ruled by Mongols for centuries and dozens of other foreigners is going to teach anything to a person from the ancient ME, the cradle of civilizations? Your history as a people and language is as old as Baghdad the city Arabs founded when they made 3 of the 11 largest empires in human history. Not only ruling empty Central Asian land or Siberia as your Soviet Union mostly did.

Just know that you stand no chance against the West and we will help the West in putting you down if necessary. Soon we will get atomic weapons as well and then you can go showcase your might against Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia and other irrelevant states.

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## F117

All the media talks about is Crimea. But what about the eastern provinces, whose people yearn to join Russia? Will be see a federation as a solution to the separatists?

Also, please ignore the Arab dog who is barking.


----------



## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> Haha, an Russian animal that was raped and ruled by Mongols for centuries and dozens of other foreigners is going to teach anything to a person from the ancient ME, the cradle of civilizations? Your history as a people and language is as old as Baghdad the city Arabs founded when they made 3 of the 11 largest empires in human history. Not only ruling empty Central Asian land or Siberia.
> 
> Just know that you stand no chance against the West and we will help the West in putting you down if relevant. Soon we will get atomic weapons as well and then you can go showcase your might against Belarus, Ukraine, Georgia and other irrelevant states.



You sound like a woman on her period. Go back to sleep.


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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> You sound like a woman on her period. Go back to sleep.



You should be sleeping by now. Glad that I got your back to planet earth, Boris. You are welcome.


----------



## Dazzler

pakdefender said:


> by Georgia all over again , I meant that the same way US/EU prodded Georgia along to go against Russian interests , they did the same with Ukraine and when Russia stepped in militarily US/EU abandonded Georgia to face Russia on their own , same will happen in Ukraine , there will not be military support given to them by US/EU.




i agree, sorry i got it wrong earlier 

In escense, there is not going to be any help by NATO/ West. In case of war, ukrainians are all on their own much like georgians were.


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## al-Hasani

F117 said:


> All the media talks about is Crimea. But what about the eastern provinces, whose people yearn to join Russia? Will be see a federation as a solution to the separatists?
> 
> Also, please ignore the Arab dog who is barking.



Keep sucking up to your conquerors Farsi. Reminds me of the millions of your compatriots who worship your conquerors the Arabs.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The pro-democrazy supporters are the most disgusting creatures on Earth, and i hope Russia won't show any mercy and destroy em all in Ukraine.

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## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> You should be sleeping by now. Glad that I got your back to planet earth, Boris. You are welcome.


Sorry cant hear you over the sound of us invading Europe and your nato overlords crying. You savages can continue eating human beings.


----------



## Full Moon

Hashshāshīn said:


> Lmao, Russia's imperial dreams? the 20 or so countries US invaded were nothing, right? Who the phuck are the US that Russia should care about their 'tolerance'?



Really? Don't you know that the U.S won the Cold War and led the Soviet Union to shred into many independent states? Russians know the limits of their power when confronted by the U.S and NATO.

Do you also know what is the best political joke of all times? It's Stalin's daughter escape from the Soviet Union and immigration to the U.S in 1967!

Yes, Svetlana Stalin had sought refugee to the U.S in the middle of the Cold War and spent her life over there until she passed
away in 2011.

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## HRK

al-Hasani said:


> @HRK
> 
> What? I think it is pretty clear and what I wrote in the beginning is pretty much the consensus among all analysts and people familiar with the situation and various experts. The value of Ukraine is several times bigger for Russia than it is for the West and the West is not ready to start a major conflict for the sake of Crimea and possibly other pro-Russian parts of Ukraine.
> 
> What Black Sea? Russia is already the main power in the Black Sea and that will never change. Turkey is second and that will never change either. What does Crimea or not add to the larger picture? Nothing. Russia is already in control of the main port in Crimea, Sevastopol. The headquarter of their Black Sea Fleet.
> 
> Turkey have no chance alone against Russia. This is about NATO/EU as a whole against Russia and their allies in the region. Not NATO country x in Europe against Russia as a whole.
> 
> The Crimean Tatars form about 10-12% of Crimea's population. They are not a significant player. You think that Russia, who controls Crimea and which has a majority Russian ethnic population (by far) would allow an Crimean Tatar independent homeland? You got to be kidding.
> 
> What has Kurds to do with anything here? Turkey already borders Iraqi Kurdistan. Which is significantly bigger than any possible Kurdish autonomous region in Syria. Nothing changes here.
> I know that Putin backs al-Asshead that's why I am against them. If they changed their position I would be indifferent to this conflict.



Number of possibilities ...dear number of possibilities ...... as I said who know what will happen next .... situation in all regions related to Black sea will effect ..... by current developments ...


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## F117

al-Hasani said:


> Keep sucking up to your conquerors Farsi. Reminds me of the millions of your compatriots who worship your conquerors the Arabs.


Stop barking, Arab! Go post about your camels, and horses.


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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Sorry cant hear you over the sound of us invading Europe and your nato overlords crying. You savages can continue eating human beings.



We never ate each other. You animals were eating thousands of each others when your grandfather was a little boy. Small babies were sold as food.

Holodomor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

During the famines that killed millions of you. During WW2 you also ate each other to survive after the Germans raided you. Only the Russian winter and American supplies saved you from speaking German today.

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## pakdefender

checkout whitehoue PR effort , Obamas picture , sleeves rolled talking ot putin .. lol


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The pro-democrazy supporters are the most disgusting creatures on Earth, and i hope Russia won't show any mercy and destroy em all in Ukraine.



Exactly.

Those pro-Western thugs in Kiev sold out their whole country for Western interests, sold out to the West.

Now Russia is knocking on their door, and those same thugs in Kiev are calling the West for help.

And what does the West do? They just laugh at them, and tell them: "You're on your own, didn't you know that?"

Just like Georgia. But some people will never learn.

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## Edevelop

No offense to Ukranians and Syrians but Russian interference helps some countries in the world. Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis have been fighting War for decades. At least the interests America had will be shifted


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## SiCiSi

F117 said:


> Stop barking, Arab! Go post about your camels, and horses.



But their western masters commanded them to. lol. These guys should stick to abusing house maids, eating human livers.


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## KingMamba

flamer84 said:


> In my opinion steps that have to be taken.
> 
> 1.Immediate bombing of Assad forces regime at full speed and topling of Assad.
> 
> 2.Russian Black Sea Fleet constrained to the Black Sea by closing of the Bosphorus.
> 
> 3.More funding and backing for separatist forces all over Russia despite their afiliation.



Closing the Bosporus is too dangerous.


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## al-Hasani

Full Moon said:


> Really? Don't you know that the U.S won the Cold War and led the Soviet Union to shred into many independent states? Russians know the limits of their power when confronted by the U.S and NATO.
> 
> Do you also know what is the best political joke of all times? It's Stalin's daughter escape from the Soviet Union and immigration to the the U.S in 1967!
> 
> Yes, Svetlana Stalin had sought refugee to the U.S in the middle of the Cold War and spent her life over there until she passed
> away in 2011.
> View attachment 19194



She was not even Russian but Georgian. No point arguing with those brain-dead Russians. India and China should gang up and invaded that wasteland. They have both huge populations and need some free room especially India. If they were sensible they should gang up with the US and then all 3 could split Russia. Win-win situation. I am sure that al the indigenous people would want their land back as well.

Time to unleash the Caucasian sleeper cells to cause some havoc.

A shame that Germany did not annihilate all of Russia. They did a marvelous job while it lasted though.


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## pakdefender

From Pakistan's point of view , we have defence ties with Ukraine , we got T80-UD tanks from Ukraine and at one point we were also looking at Ukrainian Su-27 , so Ukraine is an important country for Pakistan


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Those pro-Western thugs in Kiev sold out their whole country for Western interests, sold out to the West.
> 
> Now Russia is knocking on their door, and those same thugs in Kiev are calling the West for help.
> 
> And what does the West do? They just laugh at them, and tell them: "You're on your own, didn't you know that?"



Those pro-democrazy supporters are nothing but the trojan horses implemented by the western imperialists to destroy a country within in the name of "democracy", "human right", etc.

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## F117

SiCiSi said:


> But their western masters commanded them to. lol. These guys should stick to abusing house maids, eating human livers.


Most Arab states are American protectorates, since the 1950s. But these days, the USA is tired of playing world police officer. As a result, our Arab neighbours are becoming scared and paranoid. This leads them to doing crazy things. We should feel bad for them.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those pro-democrazy supporters are nothing but the trojan horses implemented by the western imperialists to destroy a country within in the name of "democracy", "human right", etc.



And still, the USA never saves them. They always abandon them in the end.

Like how they abandoned Ukraine and Georgia.

Now maybe those pro-Western thugs in Kiev should have thought of that first. Who is going to save them now? 

They've already sold out their country to Western interests, but now they have fulfilled their purpose, they are expendable.

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## SiCiSi

F117 said:


> Most Arab states are American protectorates, since the 1950s. But these days, the USA is tired of playing world police officer. As a result, our Arab neighbours are becoming scared and paranoid. This leads them to doing crazy things. We should feel bad for them.



Gotta give it to them tho, never seen more loyal slaves, theyre laying their lives down for their jew nato gods in syria by the hundreds lol.

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## al-Hasani

F117 said:


> Most Arab states are American protectorates, since the 1950s. But these days, the USA is tired of playing world police officer. As a result, our Arab neighbours are becoming scared and paranoid. This leads them to doing crazy things. We should feel bad for them.



Yet your country was a Russian and Western colony for decades. Now you are an Russian protectorate despite them being your former conquerors. America is only a protector of small natural rich states such as Kuwait, Qatar and Bahrain. If the Arab world was 1 single country that would not be relevant.

Keep thinking that your Russian protectors will do anything good for you. They will just keep using you as a dirty shovel.


----------



## boomslang

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those pro-democrazy supporters are nothing but the trojan horses implemented by the western imperialists to destroy a country within in the name of "democracy", "human right", etc.




Deep thinker.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And still, the USA never saves them. They always abandon them in the end.
> 
> Like how they abandoned Ukraine and Georgia.
> 
> Now maybe those pro-Western thugs in Kiev should have thought of that first. Who is going to save them now?
> 
> They've already sold out their country to Western interests, but now they have fulfilled their purpose, they are expendable.



The traitor will always face the severe consequence at the end; got despised by its own motherland and got abandoned by its master.

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Gotta give it to them tho, never seen more loyal slaves, theyre laying their lives down for their jew nato gods in syria by the hundreds lol.



You peasant. Jews have basically ruled your *** for 100+ years. Your whole oligarchy are Jewish Russians. Your Russian mafia is controlled by Jews. During the Soviet Union the Jewish Russians were ruling and especially during the Bolshevik time. Communism itself is a Jewish invention (Karl Marx).

All while Jews are not allowed to even visit my country.

Russia has excellent ties with Israel due to the many Jewish Russians and their big influence. You ethnic Russians are still the biggest slaves of foreigners like you were slaves to your Mongol overlords for centuries, the autocratic German Tsar's, the Jewish communists and today the Jewish oligarchy.

You are funny. I have to give you that.

Go worship the Georgian Stalin - the mass-murderer of your Russians.


----------



## Arzamas 16

S-400 batteries are now being deployed at Ukraine border  






Come on NATO make my day

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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> You peasant. Jews have basically ruled your *** for 100+ years. Your whole oligarchy are Jewish Russians. Your Russian mafia is controlled by Jews. During the Soviet Union the Jewish Russians were ruling and especially during the Bolshevik time. Communism itself is a Jewish invention (Karl Marx).
> 
> All while Jews are not allowed to even visit my country.
> 
> Russia has excellent ties with Israel due to the many Jewish Russians and their big influence. You ethnic Russians are still the biggest slaves of foreigners like you were slaves to your Mongol overlords for centuries, the autocratic German Tsar's, the Jewish communists and today the Jewish oligarchy.
> 
> You are funny. I have to give you that.



The Soviet Communist Party was dominated by the East Slavs, and Jews got very little influence after Josef Stalin.


----------



## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Yet your country was a Russian and Western colony for decades. Now you are an Russian protectorate despite them being your former conquerors. America is only a protector of small natural rich states such as Kuwait, Qatar and Bahrain. If the Arab world was 1 single country that would not be relevant.
> 
> Keep thinking that your Russian protectors will do anything good for you. They will just keep using you as a dirty shovel.



America holds large influence in the gulf, nothing those small gulf states can do against the US, they can’t kick them out either. 1991 collapse of the USSR + the Kuwait invasion was a good oppurtinity for them, they took it and settled in the gulf.

Arab world being 1 country would be the end of your monarchy.

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## al-Hasani

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Soviet Communist Party was dominated by the East Slavs, and Jews got very little influence after Josef Stalin.



Still the foundations of the bolshevik class and early communists (those that took power in Russia) were Jewish Russians. Even after that period the Jewish Russians dominated the scientific research in USSR. They still had very influential positions. Despite harassment here and there. Today the Russian mafia is dominated by Jewish Russians. The oligarchs as well.

Communism itself is an Jewish invention.

So his anti-Jewish sentiments are hilarious.


----------



## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> You peasant. Jews have basically ruled your *** for 100+ years. Your whole oligarchy are Jewish Russians. Your Russian mafia is controlled by Jews. During the Soviet Union the Jewish Russians were ruling and especially during the Bolshevik time. Communism itself is a Jewish invention (Karl Marx).
> 
> All while Jews are not allowed to even visit my country.
> 
> Russia has excellent ties with Israel due to the many Jewish Russians and their big influence. You ethnic Russians are still the biggest slaves of foreigners like you were slaves to your Mongol overlords for centuries, the autocratic German Tsar's, the Jewish communists and today the Jewish oligarchy.
> 
> You are funny. I have to give you that.



A saudi in a thread about Ukraine is the comedic relief we needed in the middle of this situation.

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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> America holds large influence in the gulf, nothing those small gulf states can do against the US, they can’t kick them out either. 1991 collapse of the USSR + the Kuwait invasion was a good oppurtinity for them, they took it and settled in the gulf.
> 
> Arab world being 1 country would be the end of your monarchy.



One must simply be an giant idiot to compare small states such as Kuwait etc. with Russia. Of course those are under big influence of the US. They would be under a big influence by anyone.

Yet when the Arab world was united for centuries in the form of the Caliphates and was among the biggest single entities in world history (this happened a few times) it was ruled by an Caliph.


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## Hyperion

Just a few reasons why I'm pro Ukraine 

1. Milla Jovovich ( most beautiful woman to ever walk on planet earth)







2. Mila Kunis:





3. Olga Kurylenko






Well, you guys get the drift!

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> One must simply be an giant idiot to compare small states such as Kuwait etc. with Russia. Of course those are under big influence of the US. They would be under a big influence by anyone.
> 
> Yet when the Arab world was united for centuries in the form of the Caliphates and was among the biggest single entities in world history (this happened a few times) it was ruled by an Caliph.



Then say bye to your wealth, the Gulfie oil will be shared with Somalia.

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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> Still the foundations of the bolshevik class and early communists (those that took power in Russia) were Jewish Russians. Even after that period the Jewish Russians dominated the scientific research in USSR. They still had very influential positions. Despite harassment here and there. Today the Russian mafia is dominated by Jewish Russians. The oligarchs as well.
> 
> Communism itself is an Jewish invention.
> 
> So his anti-Jewish sentiments are hilarious.



Some oligarchs are ethnic Rusisans (Russian traitors), while some are opportunist Jews.

BTW, USSR still brought most honors for Russia and many Russians actually missed it.


----------



## al-Hasani

@Hyperion 

Post some videos from the time the Russians got their asses kicked in Afghanistan by mainly Pashtuns your brethren.

I always like to see history-less peasants blown up.



Doritos11 said:


> Then say bye to your wealth, the Gulfie oil will be shared with Somalia.



Not an Arab country. Say by to Iraq's wealth as well then. Besides there is enough wealth in the Arab world to make everybody happy. Look at Algeria, Libya, the entire GCC, Iraq, etc. Anyway not the discussion.

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## boomslang

al-Hasani said:


> What you talking about? Drunk? ....



HAHAHAHA !! Fetal alcohol syndrome.


----------



## ZYXW

This is insane. Just this Thursday my professor and I were discussing why Russia was carrying out these military exercises near the Ukrainian border. This explains why. LOL

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## ChineseTiger1986

ZYXW said:


> This is insane. Just this Thursday my professor and I were discussing why Russia was carrying out these military exercises near the Ukrainian border. This explains why. LOL



Ukraine belongs to Russia, and any Russian leader with a patriotic mind will no hesitate to take it back if there is any given opportunity.

Now it is the perfect opportunity for Putin to bring the lost territory back to its map, and there is no way that a competent leader like Putin would miss it.

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## Edevelop

al-Hasani said:


> @Hyperion
> 
> Post some videos from the time the Russians got their asses kicked in Afghanistan by mainly Pashtuns your brethren.
> .



Both Russians and Americans were taught a lesson. Sorry to say but Ukraine is no Afghanistan or Pakistan. They don't have warriors like Pashtuns and Punjabis,.

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## 500

pakdefender said:


> From Pakistan's point of view , we have defence ties with Ukraine , we got T80-UD tanks from Ukraine and at one point we were also looking at Ukrainian Su-27 , so Ukraine is an important country for Pakistan


Al Khalid tank engines are also from Ukraine.



cb4 said:


> Not just Russians but also Americans were taught a lesson. Sorry to say but Ukraine is no Afghanistan or Pakistan. They can never be warriors like Pashtuns and Punjabis,.


If Russia invaded Western Ukraine they would fight. But Crimea is almost all Russian (except some Tatars).


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## ZYXW

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ukraine belongs to Russia, and any Russian leader with a patriotic mind will no hesitate to take it back if there is any given opportunity.
> 
> Now it is the best opportunity for Putin to bring it back to its map, and there is no way that a competent leader like Putin would miss it.



Ukraine belongs to its people. They need to sort out the political turmoil democratically. If Russia gets involved so will the US and that's never a pretty picture. This is not about the map, it's about lives and people.

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## SiCiSi

So why are the arabs getting so worked up by whats happening in Ukraine? Dont they have to worry about with Iran going nuclear next door and getting their asses kicked in syria?


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## ChineseTiger1986

ZYXW said:


> Ukraine belongs to its people. They need to sort out the political turmoil democratically. If Russia gets involved so will the US and that's never a pretty picture. This is not about the map, it's about lives and people.



Ukraine lives between EU and Russia, so it has no power to decide its fate.

Since Ukraine and Russia are close brothers, so it is better to stick with its big brother Russia, since Russia seeing Ukraine as its little brother, while EU seeing Ukraine as an expendable pawn and cannon fodder to contain against Russia.

The best path for Ukraine is to return to Russia.

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## SiCiSi

ZYXW said:


> Ukraine belongs to its people. They need to sort out the political turmoil democratically. If Russia gets involved so will the US and that's never a pretty picture. This is not about the map, it's about lives and people.


The US doesnt have the balls to get involved with Russia. Theyre too busy funding cannibal savages in Syria.

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## ZYXW

I am surprised you placed Mila Kunis second.....baby you changed  Lmaoooo jk jk but your political arguments and decision making process never fails to intrigue me hahaha 


Hyperion said:


> Just a few reasons why I'm pro Ukraine
> 
> 1. Milla Jovovich ( most beautiful woman to ever walk on planet earth)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mila Kunis:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Olga Kurylenko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you guys get the drift!

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> So why are the arabs getting so worked up by whats happening in Ukraine? Dont they have to worry about with Iran going nuclear next door and getting their asses kicked in syria?



Why are Russians so interested in what is going on in Syria? Should you not deal with your poverty, alcoholism, health issues and armed conflicts in the Caucasus?



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Some oligarchs are ethnic Rusisans (Russian traitors), while some are opportunist Jews.
> 
> BTW, USSR still brought most honors for Russia and many Russians actually missed it.



Most are actually Jewish. Abramovich, Khodorkovsky, Vekselberg, Berezovsky, Fridman, German Khan, Kagalovsky, Gaydamak etc.

ALL Jewish. Let alone the Russian Mafia which is dominated by Jews. Let us not forget who the founder of communism was. A German Jew. Karl Marx.

Jews were dominating the trade, business, banking etc. in all Slavic countries. In fact there are famous Slavic sayings something along those lines:

"For the Russians/Poles the street and for the Jews the residential buildings."

It was always well-known that ethnic Russians lived under the mercy of non-Russians. Even many of the Russian noble families were of non-Russian origins.

Mila Kunis is Jewish as well BTW.


----------



## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> Why are Russians so interested in what is going on in Syria? Should you not deal with your poverty, alcoholism, health issues and armed conflicts in the Caucasus?



Google Tartus. Come back and try again. Dumbass.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Hyperion said:


> Just a few reasons why I'm pro Ukraine
> 
> 1. Milla Jovovich ( most beautiful woman to ever walk on planet earth)




love her.. 


........


Also why not drop a few hundred vodka bottles over Crimea...? or supply them with drugs like Afghan jihad.

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## F117

cb4 said:


> Both Russians and Americans were taught a lesson. Sorry to say but Ukraine is no Afghanistan or Pakistan. They don't have warriors like Pashtuns and Punjabis,.


But perhaps the Ukrainian army, rather than its citizens, can wage an insurgency campaign, if it ever comes to a full occupation.


----------



## Hyperion

My process is simple..... God says that I show you signs..... I simply follow them...... 



ZYXW said:


> I am surprised you placed Mila Kunis second.....baby you changed  Lmaoooo jk jk but your political arguments and decision making process never fails to intrigue me hahaha

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Google Tartus. Come back and try again. Dumbass.



Well we are interested in Ukraine to cause havoc in your largely poor country where alcoholism and health issues are rampant. We are also interested in stirring trouble up in the Caucasus again. After all we ruled that region for 600 years. Longer than you have ruled it. In fact 4 times as long given that your presence is only 150 years old.

Tartus will just be an illusion very soon. You will have to find another base.

We have 1.5 BILLION Sunni Muslims to take from. An endless stream.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

SiCiSi said:


> Google Tartus. Come back and try again. Dumbass.



Why not mind your own business .. instead of invadin other countries... stick to cheap vodka n russian ****..

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## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> Well we are interested in Ukraine to cause havoc in your largely poor country where alcoholism and health issues are rampant. We are also interested in stirring trouble up in the Caucasus again. After all we ruled that region for 600 years. Longer than you have ruled it. In fact 4 times as long given that your presence is only 150 years old.
> 
> Tartus will just be an illusion very soon. You will have to find another base.



Well you animals have been trying for 3 years now.Not to mention a nuclear armed Iran will be staring down your camel riding asses and some rapage will be in order.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> Why are Russians so interested in what is going on in Syria? Should you not deal with your poverty, alcoholism, health issues and armed conflicts in the Caucasus?
> 
> 
> 
> Most are actually Jewish. Abramovich, Khodorkovsky, Vekselberg, Berezovsky, Fridman, German Khan, Kagalovsky, Gaydamak etc.
> 
> ALL Jewish. Let alone the Russian Mafia which is dominated by Jews. Let us not forget who the founder of communism was. A German Jew. Karl Marx.
> 
> Jews were dominating the trade, business, banking etc. in all Slavic countries. In fact there are famous Slavic sayings something along those lines:
> 
> "For the Russians/Poles the street and for the Jews the residential buildings."
> 
> It was always well-known that ethnic Russians lived under the mercy of non-Russians. Even many of the Russian noble families were of non-Russian origins.
> 
> Mila Kunis is Jewish as well BTW.



Jews are Arabs' distant cousins, so are you proud of their accomplishment so far?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

al-Hasani said:


> Well we are interested in Ukraine to cause havoc in your largely poor country where alcoholism and health issues are rampant. We are also interested in stirring trouble up in the Caucasus again. After all we ruled that region for 600 years. Longer than you have ruled it. In fact 4 times as long given that your presence is only 150 years old.
> 
> Tartus will just be an illusion very soon. You will have to find another base.
> 
> We have *1.5 BILLION Sunni Muslim*s to take from. An endless stream.



Why not just 2 billion muslims instead of shitty secterian crap ..

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## al-Hasani

SiCiSi said:


> Well you animals have been trying for 3 years now.Not to mention a nuclear armed Iran will be staring down your camel riding asses and some rapage will be in order.



Russian peasant/history-less off-spring of Mongols and various of other of your overlords in your short insignificant history.

Do you remember how 1 million Chechens defeated your *** in the 1990's? And all the nice videos were your peasants were annihilated like dogs? We helped them and will continue to help them. We will also eradicate Syria from your friends.

Russian peasants have been beheaded/liquidated by the Syrian opposition.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Jews are Arabs' distant cousins, so are you proud of their accomplishment so far?



No. Just stating some facts. Did you google all those names I gave you? They are all Jewish Russians.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

ZYXW said:


> I am surprised you placed Mila Kunis second.....baby you changed  Lmaoooo jk jk but your political arguments and decision making process never fails to intrigue me hahaha



Coz mila is much more hotter.. duh..

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## al-Hasani

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Why not just 2 billion muslims instead of shitty secterian crap ..



Shias are not interested in liberating Syria unfortunately. If they were we could say 2 billion.


----------



## KingMamba

cb4 said:


> Both Russians and Americans were taught a lesson. Sorry to say but Ukraine is no Afghanistan or Pakistan. They don't have warriors like Pashtuns and Punjabis,.



Yes us warrior folk just chilling in the mountains and those plains doing them warrior things.

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## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> Russian peasant/history-less off-spring of Mongols and various of other of your overlords in your short insignificant history.
> 
> Do you remember how 1 million Chechens defeated your *** in the 1990's? And all the nice videos were your peasants were annihilated like dogs? We helped them and will continue to help them. We will also eradicate Syria from your friends.
> 
> Russian peasants have been beheaded/liquidated by the Syrian opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> No. Just stating some facts. Did you google all those names I gave you? They are Jewish Russians.



And then we will all go for ice cream and milkshakes and there wont be a nuclear Iran and our oil will last forever and we wont be some of the fattest people in the world and our Nato overlords will finally use lube.

Keep dreaming.


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

To all Chinese brothers, when we have issue with Japan with US in Pacific, did Russians come to support us? let Russians to fix their own problem, better take care of our own.

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## ZYXW

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ukraine lives between EU and Russia, so it has no power to decide its fate.
> 
> Since Ukraine and Russia are close brothers, so it is better to stick with its big brother Russia, since Russia seeing Ukraine as its little brother, while EU seeing Ukraine as an expendable pawn and cannon fodder to contain against Russia.
> 
> The best path for Ukraine is to return to Russia.



But that's resorting to a international solution rather than finding a domestic one and strengthening the country and its democracy. Ukraine should try and secure its sovereignty...... like i said, it should not about russia or europe or politics, should be about the people of that country...


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

al-Hasani said:


> Shias are not interested in liberating Syria unfortunately. If they were we could say 2 billion.



Liberation my butt... its like swapping one d-bag with another... the people... they are ... anyways... screw al *** head n Faggot syrian army..


----------



## KingMamba

al-Hasani said:


> Shias are not interested in liberating Syria unfortunately. If they were we could say 2 billion.



Shias don't like the taste of liver, I guess.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

SiCiSi said:


> And then we will all go for ice cream and milkshakes and there wont be a nuclear Iran and our oil will last forever and we wont be some of the fattest people in the world and our Nato overlords will finally use lube.
> 
> Keep dreaming.



Yeah and USSR will rise again... and so will the zombies...

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## al-Hasani

@SiCiSi

Syria will be liberated that's without question. No Russian mongrel animals can do anything about it. At most they will get beheaded like they were in the hundreds by your Chechen nationals. Let us hope that they will regain their beautiful homeland btw. and all the other ethnic groups that you have stolen land from. If all of them regained independence you would be left with Moscow, LOL.

Should you not get raped by your Jewish overlords? I mean they are ruling your *** on al levels and have been doing it for decades.

That's why anti-Semitims has been so strong historically in Russia. Even your own Russians realize this.

Also what's with all the Russian skinheads? You do know that Nazis consider your Slavs (which comes from Slavs because we Arabs, Romans and others used you as slaves) as an inferior race. Lebensraum. They now worship their mass-murderers.

What's with all of those ethnic Russian converts (women) that are blowing themselves up? What's happening?

Is all that due to the aftereffects of being mongrels?


----------



## Hyperion

I like zombie movies.... don't spoil them for me....... 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yeah and USSR will rise again... and so will the zombies...

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## al-Hasani

KingMamba said:


> Shias don't like the taste of liver, I guess.



But they seem to like the taste of thousand of dead civilians, children, women and elders.

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## ZYXW

Hyperion said:


> My process is simple..... God says that I show you signs..... I simply follow them......



Therefore you are either very religious or delusional, which one would you prefer baby  hahaha jk

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## Hyperion

Don't like Russia that much, however, strictly not in favor of anyone meddling with the Syrians as well. I hate intervention. Period.




al-Hasani said:


> @SiCiSi
> 
> Syria will be liberated that's without question. No Russian mongrel animals can do anything about it. At most they will get beheaded like they were in the hundreds by your Chechen nationals. Let us hope that they will regain their beautiful homeland btw. and all the other ethnic groups that you have stolen land from. If all of them regained independence you would be left with Moscow, LOL.
> 
> Should you not get raped by our Jewish overlords? I mean they are ruling your *** on al levels and have been doing it for years.
> 
> That's why anti-Semitims has been so strong historically in Russia. Even your own Russians realize this.
> 
> Also what's with all the Russian skinheads? You do know that Nazis consider your Slavs (which comes from Slavs because we Arabs, Romans and others used your as slaves) as an inferior race. Lebensraum. They now worship their mass-murderers.
> 
> What's with all of those ethnic Russian converts (women) that are blowing themselves up? What's happening?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Hyperion said:


> I like zombie movies.... don't spoil them for me.......



Imagine a vodka guzzling zombie from motha ruski..

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## KAL-EL

Hyperion said:


> Just a few reasons why I'm pro Ukraine
> 
> 1. Milla Jovovich ( most beautiful woman to ever walk on planet earth)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mila Kunis:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Olga Kurylenko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you guys get the drift!

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## KingMamba

al-Hasani said:


> But they seem to like the taste of thousand of dead civilians, children, women and elders.



As does ISIS, al Nusra and every other faction known to God operating inside of Syria.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

al-Hasani said:


> But they seem to like the taste of thousand of dead civilians, children, women and elders.



Lets start a secterian war in the middle of a Ukrainian conflict thread..


----------



## SiCiSi

al-Hasani said:


> @SiCiSi
> 
> Syria will be liberated that's without question. No Russian mongrel animals can do anything about it. At most they will get beheaded like they were in the hundreds by your Chechen nationals. Let us hope that they will regain their beautiful homeland btw. and all the other ethnic groups that you have stolen land from. If all of them regained independence you would be left with Moscow, LOL.
> 
> Should you not get raped by our Jewish overlords? I mean they are ruling your *** on al levels and have been doing it for years.
> 
> That's why anti-Semitims has been so strong historically in Russia. Even your own Russians realize this.
> 
> Also what's with all the Russian skinheads? You do know that Nazis consider your Slavs (which comes from Slavs because we Arabs, Romans and others used your as slaves) as an inferior race. Lebensraum. They now worship their mass-murderers.
> 
> What's with all of those ethnic Russian converts (women) that are blowing themselves up? What's happening?



Delusions. Check.
Beheadings. Check.
Being a mouth piece of NATO overlords. Check.

Yep this post was by a saudi alright.


----------



## ZYXW

SiCiSi said:


> The US doesnt have the balls to get involved with Russia. Theyre too busy funding cannibal savages in Syria.



Well with the democrats in power i understand the US gives off this image, but I assure you, if needed the US will act.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

KAL-EL said:


>




2 chick i could never forget or may 3? or more..

Mila,Liv tyle (one night at Mc cools),eva mendes..


----------



## al-Hasani

KingMamba said:


> As does ISIS, al Nusra and every other faction known to God operating inside of Syria.



Which nobody recognizes as the Syrian opposition. In fact ISIS is a Ba'thi intelligence creation and its leadership is fully dominated by former Ba'athis.

Still the Syrian regime has killed more civilians and destroyed much more than ISIS and others can hope to achieve in the upcoming 10 years if they continue at this rate.


----------



## Hyperion

Now imagine someone threatening Poland..... I'll go apeshit on them! 

Yvonne Strahovski:











KAL-EL said:


>

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## ZYXW

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Coz mila is much more hotter.. duh..


yeah I know i thought he would place her first..... haha

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> @SiCiSi
> 
> Syria will be liberated that's without question. No Russian mongrel animals can do anything about it. At most they will get beheaded like they were in the hundreds by your Chechen nationals. Let us hope that they will regain their beautiful homeland btw. and all the other ethnic groups that you have stolen land from. If all of them regained independence you would be left with Moscow, LOL.
> 
> Should you not get raped by your Jewish overlords? I mean they are ruling your *** on al levels and have been doing it for decades.
> 
> That's why anti-Semitims has been so strong historically in Russia. Even your own Russians realize this.
> 
> Also what's with all the Russian skinheads? You do know that Nazis consider your Slavs (which comes from Slavs because we Arabs, Romans and others used you as slaves) as an inferior race. Lebensraum. They now worship their mass-murderers.
> 
> What's with all of those ethnic Russian converts (women) that are blowing themselves up? What's happening?
> 
> Is all that due to the aftereffects of being mongrels?



Quit spreading this toxic garbage everywhere, this thread should not even have the word 'Arab'.

No arguing, no reply.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> To all Chinese brothers, when we have issue with Japan with US in Pacific, did Russians come to support us? let Russians to fix their own problem, better take care of our own.



We can handle both US and Jap in our home turf, and Russia's neutrality in the Asia-Pacific is the biggest support for us.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hyperion said:


> Now imagine someone threatening Poland..... I'll go apeshit on them!
> 
> Yvonne Strahovski:



Wish Pak could annex Romania..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

@al-Hasani @Hyperion @KingMamba name 3 good things tht russia produces?

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## Hyperion

1. Vodka
2. Women
3. AK



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @al-Hasani @Hyperion @KingMamba name 3 good things tht russia produces?

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## Marshmallow

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @al-Hasani @Hyperion @KingMamba name 3 good things tht russia produces?


1-cupcakes
2-icyin sugar
3-coffe beans

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## flamer84

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Wish Pak could annex Romania..

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## Hyperion

Dude, any cute women there? Never had the pleasure of being with a Romanian! 



flamer84 said:


>

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## DESERT FIGHTER

al-Hasani said:


> Pedophiles, prostitues, vodka which is a POLISH invention, skinheads (dumb idiots worshipping their mass-murderers who deemed them as an inferior race and mass-murdererd them to create Lebensraum) and talented Jewish Russians. But that's more a Jewish creation.
> 
> Drunk idiots and drug addicts as well. Peasants.
> 
> MOST importantly SLAVES.



Close.. but i meant "good things"..


Hyperion said:


> 1. Vodka
> 2. Women
> 3. AK




This guy takes the cake.. give him a porno,vodka and a second hand AK.. 



Marshmallow said:


> 1-cupcakes
> 2-icyin sugar
> 3-coffe beans



My dear innocent child..

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## Edevelop

Hyperion said:


> 2. Women



Too White...


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## al-Hasani

@flamer84

Don't you think that the great Germans left some unfinished business when they tried to civilize those Russian animals a few decade ago? They were doing such a great job until the winter came and the Americans saved their asses.

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## Marshmallow

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Close.. but i meant "good things"..
> 
> 
> 
> This guy takes the cake.. give him a porno,vodka and a second hand AK..
> 
> 
> 
> My dear innocent child..


lolssss sorry

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## al-Hasani

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Close.. but i meant "good things"..
> 
> 
> 
> This guy takes the cake.. give him a porno,vodka and a second hand AK..
> 
> 
> 
> My dear innocent child..



Dead Russians. That's a very good thing.

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## Marshmallow

Hyperion said:


> Dude, any cute women there? Never had the pleasure of being with a Romanian!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

flamer84 said:


>











al-Hasani said:


> Dead Russians. That's a very good thing.



Krokodil ...?


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## Hyperion

Nah dude. Not all of them...... only "white Russia" is really really white..... their population does have good pigmentation as well! 



cb4 said:


> Too White...

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## flamer84

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> View attachment 19195





Hyperion said:


> Dude, any cute women there? Never had the pleasure of being with a Romanian!



Nope,they're all ugly as piglets.Now stay away.

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## al-Hasani

The founder of the AK47 was not a ethnic Russian but clearly belonged to another ethnic group. Just look at him. Not even that can they take the credit for.





Vodka is Polish btw.


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## Arzamas 16

al-Hasani said:


> @KingMamba
> 
> Time to unleash the Caucasian Muslims to cause havoc in Russia again so they can liberate themselves.




You can also pay for their one way trip to Siberia while your at it

Operation Lentil (Caucasus) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## KAL-EL



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## Hyperion

Crap. Now I know they are really pretty...... no one lies so blatantly, unless there is some truth to it...... here I come! 



flamer84 said:


> Nope,they're all ugly as piglets.Now stay away.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

flamer84 said:


> Nope,they're all ugly as piglets.Now stay away.



Aint gonna work amigo.. i charm chicks with my lengthy,silky smooth beard ..

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## al-Hasani

Arzamas 16 said:


> You can also pay for their one way trip to Siberia while your at it
> 
> Operation Lentil (Caucasus) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The Chechens killed thousands of you. You have not finished the job. MIllions of Muslims in Russia and increasingly more and more Russians are turning towards Islam.
We just need some new German Tsar's, Georgians like Stalin, Jews like Lenin etc. to terrorize you again. We only have to sit back.

Keep drinking all that Polish vodka and smoke all those cigarettes. You are dying in the thousands due to that monthly. Keep it going.

Time will also do its job. By 2050 your population will have decreased by millions while the non-ethnic Russians that make up 25% of your population will only grow in numbers. Most are Muslims.

A silent and pleasant death.

Meanwhile we will eliminate your trash in Syria. Either directly or those you sponsor.

Of course with our good friends the West that once ruined you already.


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## flamer84

Hyperion said:


> Crap. Now I know they are really pretty...... no one lies so blatantly, unless there is some truth to it...... here I come!



We will hide the women more carefully than the National Treasury.In fact we shouldn't even bother to hide the National Tresury anymore,the russians would take it anyway.In WW1 we send it to them as our allies for safe keeping...buh bye 93 tons of gold.In WW2 we've burried it under tons of concrete,they still took it.

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## Hyperion

@al-Hasani , dude, why do you hate EVERY nation under the sun? What's up brah?

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## xenon54 out

I like how this thread evolved from something serious to ridiculous...

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## DESERT FIGHTER

xenon54 said:


> I like how this thread evolved from something serious to ridiculous...



It had alot of potential..

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## Hyperion

Bhawawawwawawawawawawawawwawawawwawa 

You know something? U.S of A, did precisely the same to Kuwaiti gold at Fort Knox, refused to give it back...... 



flamer84 said:


> We will hide the women more carefully than the National Treasury.In fact we shouldn't even bother to hide the National Tresury anymore,the russians would take it anyway.In WW1 we send it to them as our allies for safe keeping...buh bye 93 tons of gold.*In WW1 we've burried it under tons of concrete,they still took it*.



Stop quoting your Emperor... Emperor sees the potential and milks it dry! 



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It had alot of potential..

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## KAL-EL

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> It had alot of potential..

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## Edevelop

Hyperion said:


> Bhawawawwawawawawawawawawwawawawwawa
> 
> You know something? They did precisely the same to Kuwaiti gold at Fort Knox, refused to give it back......



Saudis have some gold reserves in U.S too.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

flamer84 said:


> We will hide the women more carefully than the National Treasury.In fact we shouldn't even bother to hide the National Tresury anymore,the russians would take it anyway.In WW1 we send it to them as our allies for safe keeping...buh bye 93 tons of gold.In WW2 we've burried it under tons of concrete,they still took it.



Dont worry Dracula... il save em.. and fight the ruskies ... 

And than help populate n make Romania great again... like a boss.!

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## F117

If Russia takes east Ukraine, the western part would join NATO, there would be no more buffer zone. Also, it's interesting to see military units without insignia. This is perfidy and illegal under the Geneva convention.


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## Hyperion

I know of Kuwaiti gold as a fact, as I dealt a certain financial transaction o their behalf.... can't comment on Saudi gold! 



cb4 said:


> Saudis have some gold reserves in U.S too.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hyperion said:


> Bhawawawwawawawawawawawawwawawawwawa
> 
> You know something? They did precisely the same to Kuwaiti gold at Fort Knox, refused to give it back......
> 
> 
> 
> Stop quoting your Emperor... Emperor sees the potential and milks it dry!



Hey yo emperor il let you milk al-Hasanis goat... thts a deal..

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Al-Donkey/Oldie on the loose? Or Donkeyzuldun something. Too big a coward to tell it directly or what? Where is your plight for "your" Tatars? Had the Russians not killed, deported and Russfied enough of your Turkic brethren?



Your behaving like a retard did you know, just read what your writing.

'Dead Russians are good'
'We will massacre you'
'We will mass murder you'

Shut the **** up retard, leave this thread to normal people

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## al-Hasani

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hey yo emperor il let you milk al-Hasanis goat... thts a deal..



A Najdi sheep could kill 10 Russian peasants at once.

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## Hyperion

I actually like Kuwaiti's. They are pretty decent and educated people! 

Why do you hate them? 



al-Hasani said:


> Kuwaiti dinar = most valuable currency. Of course I hate Kuwaitis. That's obvious. But prefer them over the Russian animals.


----------



## flamer84

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dont worry Dracula... il save em.. and fight the ruskies ...
> 
> And than help populate n make Romania great again... like a boss.!



No can do amigo,we're starting to believe it's faith...Romania can't into safe guarding its gold against Russia.I would personally stop bothering in having gold reserves.

Even the Head of our National Bank said a few months ago he doesn't want us have over 100 tons of gold in the Reserve out of superstition.Every time we have over 100 tons it's taken from us.

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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Your behaving like a retard did you know, just read what your writing.
> 
> 'Dead Russians are good'
> 'We will massacre you'
> 'We will mass murder you'
> 
> Shut the **** up retard, leave this thread to normal people



A dead Russian is a good one in this case. Just replying to that SICIS idiot who started it. Of course the Muslims of Russia have to regain their freedom and we will help them with that. Successfully or not. Likewise their trash in Syria and the Child-Murderers they support. No other option.

They have been threatening several Arab countries of late. Obviously we cannot tolerate this.



T-123456 said:


> What up camel,insulting people and nothing happens to you.
> Someone should do something about your bad mouth,doesnt your 5000 year old bla bla culture teach you to behave?



You are nearly 50 years old donkey. Should you not have learnt proper English by now? Don't quote me or talk behind my back coward. Nobody cares about you here. Did not mention you did I? Now get lost and go cry elsewhere. Don't pick up fights if you can't handle them.


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## T-123456

xenon54 said:


> Mate its better we dont meddle in this.


Meddle what,that idiot insults evry nation and gets away with it?
Camels and manners

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## DESERT FIGHTER

flamer84 said:


> No can do amigo,we're starting to believe it's faith...Romania can't into safe guarding its gold against Russia.I would personally stop bothering in having gold reserves.
> 
> Even the Head of our National Bank said a few months ago he doesn't want us have over 100 tons of cold in the Reserve out of superstition.Every time we have over 100 tons it's taken from us.



Dont sweat it homie.. we got "Jinn" powered laser guns to beat the russian asses... 

Get you WASR ready... ive oiled mine.. together we join forces n make those russians drink vodka from our boots..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

al-Hasani said:


> A Najdi sheep could kill 10 Russian peasants at once.



Dont doubt it.. thts 1 giant *** sheep..

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## untitled

Time for someone to clean up this thread

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## DESERT FIGHTER

persona_non_grata said:


> Time for someone to clean up this thread



Maa sadkay...

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## Doritos11

Insha allah, Russia will conquer all of Ukraine & come back to the ME


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## al-Hasani

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dont doubt it.. thts 1 giant *** mofo sheep..


Sorry. I just can't stand those Ruskies that are propagandists for their dirty regime that has millions of Muslim blood on their hands and who helps kill innocent Syrians for 3 years in a row and threatens several Arab and Muslim countries as of late. Especially not when Russian alcoholics are picking up the fight and out of nowhere insulting Islam as well. So of course we cannot tolerate this.

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## T-123456

al-Hasani said:


> A dead Russian is a good one in this case. Just replying to that SICIS idiot. Of course the Muslims of Russia have to regain their freedom and we will help them with that. Successfully or not. Likewise their trash in Syria and the Child-Murderers they support. No other option.
> 
> They have been threatening several Arab countries of late. Obviously we cannot tolerate this.
> 
> 
> 
> You are nearly 50 years old donkey. Should you not have learnt proper English by now? Don't quote me or talk behind my back coward. Nobody cares about you here. Did not mention you did I? Now get lost and go cry elsewhere. Don't pick up fights if you can't handle them.


Handle what,a little camel with a bad mouth,kid you are a little clown and will stay a clown.
I'll call you the inhouse clown from now on!

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## untitled

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Maa sadkay...

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## KingMamba

flamer84 said:


>



Fine confederation?


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## al-Hasani

T-123456 said:


> Handle what,a little camel with bad mouth,kid you are a little clown and will stay a clown.
> I'll call you the inhouse clown from now on!



Donkey, learn English. A camel, let alone an Arabian horse are bot more useful than an old donkey like you can ever dream about being. Now don't start fights with me if you can't handle them. Seen that before from you. Wish I could repay the favor. Now get lost.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Doritos11 said:


> Insha allah, Russia will conquer all of Ukraine & come back to the ME



Hmm.. and where will you go?


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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Insha allah, Russia will conquer all of Ukraine & come back to the ME



Come back to the ME? Since when was Russia ever in the ME to begin with? Time to shift your country (Netherlands) to Russia or Kazakhstan. Maybe Belarus. That would suit you I believe.


----------



## T-123456

al-Hasani said:


> Donkey, learn English. A camel, let alone an Arabian horse are bot more useful than an old donkey like you can ever dream about being. Now don't start fights with me if you can't handle them. Seen that before from you. Wish I could repay the favor. Now get lost.


What is it idiot cant handle the pressure,lets go i'm waiting.
Throw some 5000 year old bs at me,thats all you little clown can do.

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## Falcon29

I love when @al-Hasani and everybody else go at each other. 

We need you here, you're so entertaining and educated. 

Except when you debate me on Palestine you lose.


----------



## F117

Here come the sanctions!
U.S. Lawmakers See Sanctions Not Troops as Ukraine Response - Bloomberg


> U.S. lawmakers from both parties urged President Barack Obama to lead an international effort to impose diplomatic and economic sanctions on Russia if it attacks Ukraine, though they stopped short of calling for armed intervention.

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## al-Hasani

T-123456 said:


> What is it idiot cant handle the pressure,lets go i'm waiting.
> Throw some 5000 year old bs at me,thats all you little clown can do.



Haha, can't handle the pressure? What are you talking about low IQ clown? I openly talk to you and insult you while you insult me behind my back. That's the difference between a man and an oldie like you that is way past his expiration date.

I am not even going to throw a toilet paper at you since you are irrelevant if you stopped addressing me. Do you understand this or should I make it even more clear for you once and for all?


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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Come back to the ME? Since when was Russia ever in the ME to begin with? Time to shift your country (Netherlands) to Russia or Kazakhstan. Maybe Belarus. That would suit you I believe.



To throw USA naval bases out of the gulf, currently they rule the place


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## ChineseTiger1986

F117 said:


> Here come the sanctions!
> U.S. Lawmakers See Sanctions Not Troops as Ukraine Response - Bloomberg



It won't work, those lawmakers are a freaking jokes.

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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> To throw USA naval bases out of the gulf, currently they rule the place



Maybe they do so but so do the Americans when it comes to Iraq. After all they removed the entire military, police force, political system and appointed their men and their own system. Basically all your laws are made in US. That's why you are paying the Kurds for nothing. Thank the US. Your liberators.


----------



## KingMamba

F117 said:


> Here come the sanctions!
> U.S. Lawmakers See Sanctions Not Troops as Ukraine Response - Bloomberg



Sanctions are better than war but Europeans need that Russian natural resources lol.


----------



## Hyperion

Bhawawawwawawawawwa... that'd be the day, when Yanks grow the balls to put embargoes on Russia...... some of these senators seem to be on hash, no wonder they legislated to to make it legal in Washington! 




F117 said:


> Here come the sanctions!
> U.S. Lawmakers See Sanctions Not Troops as Ukraine Response - Bloomberg


----------



## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Maybe they do so but so do the Americans when it comes to Iraq. After all they removed the entire military, police force, political system and appointed their men and their own system. Basically all your laws are made in US. That's why you are paying the Kurds for nothing. Thank the US. Your liberators.



Law of hammurabi you dumb bedouin, we made yours and that of your forefathers.


----------



## T-123456

al-Hasani said:


> Haha, can't handle the pressure? What are you talking about low IQ clown? I openly talk to you and insult you while you insult me behind my back. That's the difference between a man and an oldie like you that is way past his expiration date.
> 
> I am not even going to throw a toilet paper at you since you are irrelevant if you stopped addressing me. Do you understand this or should I make it even more clear for you once and for all?


You are happy arent you,nobody can do anything to you in your room behind your computer?
Was it difficult for you to see that we use toilets here instead of the desert?
You are the biggest troll here you clown

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## Doritos11

@al-Hasani 

Did you know you raped this topic, did you know it was never about Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrabs

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## T-123456

Doritos11 said:


> Law of hammurabi you dumb bedouin, we made yours and that of your forefathers.


Wait for it,now comes a 5000 year old civiliation story.

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## guluchulo

From this thread i learned Slavs mean slaves, pretty shitty name for ethinic group.

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## cleverrider

Hyperion said:


> Just a few reasons why I'm pro Ukraine
> 
> 1. Milla Jovovich ( most beautiful woman to ever walk on planet earth)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. Mila Kunis:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. Olga Kurylenko
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you guys get the drift!



Fully Agree.

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## al-Hasani

Doritos11 said:


> Law of hammurabi you dumb bedouin, we made yours and that of your forefathers.



Who was an Akkadian and they originated on the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. They are not native to Iraq you dumb Mongol. In fact your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the Arab invaders about 1500 years ago. That's how you came into existence.

@T-123456

Should you not be telling that to yourself? Even on the internet you are not a man enough to address people directly when you start the insults. When somebody returns the favor you cry as the old donkey you are.

Toilettes came to the ME long before they came to your Central Asia and yurts. Forgot about that? At least I am here to remind you of that.


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## Falcon29

I hope WW3 erupts and a meteor crashes into earth and wipes off our whole civilization and judgement day comes. 

@T-123456 

What are those stealth fighter jets in your avatar?


----------



## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> Who was an Akkadian and they originated on the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. They are not native to Iraq you dumb Mongol. In fact your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the Arab invaders about 1500 years ago. That's how you came into existence.
> 
> @T-123456
> 
> Should you not be telling that to yourself? Even on the internet you are not a man enough to address people directly when you start the insults. When somebody returns the favor you cry as the old donkey you are.
> 
> Toilettes came to the ME long before they came to your Central Asia and yurts. Forgot about that?


I don't want to start another debate that we already had before.

1.) You were right about arguing with the Russian guy because he started it but you took it to far/
2.) If you are going to argue with another Turkish member don't drag us all into by saying dumb stuff.
3.)Stop derailing the thread.

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## Doritos11

T-123456 said:


> Wait for it,now comes a 5000 year old civiliation story.



The beautiful ancient Arab world is something you non Semites could only dream of. The Arabian tribes of the beautiful ancient peninsula share a lot of history whom established worlds largest empires and most remarkable civilizations, among them the Dilmun civilization in the Peninsula.
Us Semites originate from the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. You dumb Mongol, try to understand, your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the us Arab invaders.
You were nothing before you encountered us Semites. You were useless nomads that roamed the steppes of Central Asia & Mongolia like a bunch of savages, something you are proud of. You first became relevant when you encountered us. That is the reality. Don't make me laugh.
I think that I exposed the Mongols enough for today.

Us Semites civilized you Mongols after all and gave you an identity, recorded you people the first time you appeared in the civilized world 2800 years ago and here you are talking big while you don’t even know your own roots

The 500 million Arabs in the world together form the worlds strongest superpower, something Mongols will never have.

As I said stick to making kebabs, a dish you stole from us Semetic Arabs like all the other Arab dishes that you claim are Turkish cuisine LOL.

The beautiful diverse Arab world

Saudi Arabia - Hejaz

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> I don't want to start another debate that we already had before.
> 
> 1.) You were right about arguing with the Russian guy because he started it but you took it to far/
> 2.) If you are going to argue with another Turkish member don't drag us all into by saying dumb stuff.
> 3.)Stop derailing the thread.



1) I am only replying in a similar fashion like that Russian idiot who started it. I made long and accurate posts in the beginning of the debate that many users thanked. Even pro-Russian users. Until that idiot started to make insults about Islam, animals, cannibals, killing etc. Everybody can go back and take a look how it started. So of course I trolled in return.

2) Tell that to your coward of a compatriot who made an insult to me without daring to write it directly to me when he was not even involved in this debate.

3) The Russian was the one derailing this thread by his first comment about Islam and the other nonsense while I sticked to the topic as is evident by my first 4-5 posts. Dozens of other users are posting off-topic posts including your compatriot.


----------



## Hakan

Doritos11 said:


> The beautiful ancient Arab world is something you non Semites could only dream of. The Arabian tribes of the beautiful ancient peninsula share a lot of history whom established worlds largest empires and most remarkable civilizations, among them the Dilmun civilization in the Peninsula.
> Us Semites originate from the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. You dumb Mongol, try to understand, your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the us Arab invaders.
> You were nothing before you encountered us Semites. You were useless nomads that roamed the steppes of Central Asia & Mongolia like a bunch of savages, something you are proud of. You first became relevant when you encountered us. That is the reality. Don't make me laugh.
> I think that I exposed the Mongols enough for today.
> 
> Us Semites civilized you Mongols after all and gave you an identity, recorded you people the first time you appeared in the civilized world 2800 years ago and here you are talking big while you don’t even know your own roots
> 
> The 500 million Arabs in the world together form the worlds strongest superpower, something Mongols will never have.
> 
> As I said stick to making kebabs, a dish you stole from us Semetic Arabs like all the other Arab dishes that you claim are Turkish cuisine LOL.
> 
> The beautiful diverse Arab world
> 
> Saudi Arabia - Hejaz


Please be joking.

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## T-123456

al-Hasani said:


> Who was an Akkadian and they originated on the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. They are not native to Iraq you dumb Mongol. In fact your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the Arab invaders about 1500 years ago. That's how you came into existence.
> 
> @T-123456
> 
> Should you not be telling that to yourself? Even on the internet you are not a man enough to address people directly when you start the insults. When somebody returns the favor you cry as the old donkey you are.
> 
> Toilettes came to the ME long before they came to your Central Asia and yurts. Forgot about that? At least I am here to remind you of that.


Dude dont you think people have had it with your civilisation stories?
Are you that dumb that you cant see what kind of fool you are?
Even the Arab members know you are clown.
Try something new for a change.

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## al-Hasani

@Doritos11

Very nice photos.

Anyway do you have anything clever to say about this topic or just one-liners as usual? Go ahead. Give your take on the situation. In detail please.

Not "Inshallah Russia is going to invade Ukraine and return to the ME".

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## -SINAN-

Another fucked up thread , thanks to certain individual....

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## T-123456

Doritos11 said:


> The beautiful ancient Arab world is something you non Semites could only dream of. The Arabian tribes of the beautiful ancient peninsula share a lot of history whom established worlds largest empires and most remarkable civilizations, among them the Dilmun civilization in the Peninsula.
> Us Semites originate from the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. You dumb Mongol, try to understand, your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the us Arab invaders.
> You were nothing before you encountered us Semites. You were useless nomads that roamed the steppes of Central Asia & Mongolia like a bunch of savages, something you are proud of. You first became relevant when you encountered us. That is the reality. Don't make me laugh.
> I think that I exposed the Mongols enough for today.
> 
> Us Semites civilized you Mongols after all and gave you an identity, recorded you people the first time you appeared in the civilized world 2800 years ago and here you are talking big while you don’t even know your own roots
> 
> The 500 million Arabs in the world together form the worlds strongest superpower, something Mongols will never have.
> 
> As I said stick to making kebabs, a dish you stole from us Semetic Arabs like all the other Arab dishes that you claim are Turkish cuisine LOL.
> 
> The beautiful diverse Arab world
> 
> Saudi Arabia - Hejaz


We mongols ruled over you for 500 years you dumb twin camel,used you like slaves,dont ever forget that.



Sinan said:


> Another fucked up thread , thanks to certain individual....


Evry forum needs a clown,here its al-camel.

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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


> 1) I am only replying in a similar fashion like that Russian idiot who started it. I made long and accurate posts in the beginning of the debate that many users thanked. Even pro-Russian users. Until that idiot started to make insults about Islam, animals, cannibals, killing etc. Everybody can go back and take a look how it started. So of course I trolled in return.
> 
> 2) Tell that to your coward of a compatriot who made an insult to me without daring to write it directly to me when he was not even involved in this debate.
> 
> 3) The Russian was the one derailing this thread by his first comment about Islam and the other nonsense while I sticked to the topic as is evident by my first 4-5 posts. Dozens of other users are posting off-topic posts including your compatriot.



He used to do it to me, lol. Whenever I start a thread on Israel I usually got a random attack. 


Then as of lately he kind of changed with me.

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## IndoUS

If there is a war, then Ukraine is pretty much going to get steam rolled over by Russia. Ukraine cannot match the Russian military might, and it is highly unlikely that the EU or the Nato forces will intervene, since they have just started to pull out of one war in the middle east. It would be better for Ukraine to just give up its southern part that has the Russian base and Russian supporters, than to lose the entire country.

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## xenon54 out

Kaan said:


> Please be joking.


Hes beein sarcastic dude.

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> He used to do it to me, lol. Whenever I start a thread on Israel I usually got a random attack.
> 
> 
> Then as of lately he kind of changed with me.



Well anyone who does that will get a reply. Very few people have anything on us native ME people. So they better learn to behave if they don't want to see similar insults the other way around. He started it and I just replied. Anyone reading the thread can see it so I have nothing to hide or anything.

Later an old donkey came along because he wanted some attention.


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## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> Well anyone who does that will get a reply. Very few people have anything on us native ME people. So they better learn to behave if they don't want to see similar insults the other way around. He started it and I just replied. Anyone reading the thread can see it so I have nothing to hide or anything.


We are just nice.


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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> @Doritos11
> 
> Very nice photos.
> 
> Anyway do you have anything clever to say about this topic or just one-liners as usual? Go ahead. Give your take on the situation. In detail please.
> 
> Not "Inshallah Russia is going to invade Ukraine and return to the ME".



The Russians should rebuild their empire, Ukraine, Belarus, and the other small failed insignificant entities in the north such as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania are all part of mother Russia.
This way Russia will return it’s influence in Western Europe & the Middle East.

Russia and the Middle east share ancient ties, mainly trade routes such as the Volga trade route in which early civilizations traded their resources,
Volga trade route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> In the Middle Ages, the *Volga trade route* connected Northern Europe and Northwestern Russia with the Caspian Sea, via the Volga River. The Rus used this route to trade with Muslim countries on the southern shores of the Caspian Sea, sometimes penetrating as far as Baghdad. The route functioned concurrently with the Dnieper trade route, better known as the trade route from the Varangians to the Greeks, and lost its importance in the 11th century.



This historical relationship is like the Sino-Arab relationship something we will never forget, The Arab world should form 1 bloc and unite itself with the Russian empire, I put myself forward as a leader of this future empire considering my wide leadership qualities & bravery. Together we will form the most powerful bloc, something that will give the Safavids + other enemies nightmares .

Western Europe is a failed bloc, their economies except that of Germany are shrinking while the Russian economy is booming at 3% and growing just like all the other Arab economies, we are growing while the capitalist Zionists are falling. The future will be in the Eastern states.


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## Falcon29

al-Hasani said:


> Well anyone who does that will get a reply. Very few people have anything on us native ME people. So they better learn to behave if they don't want to see similar insults the other way around. He started it and I just replied. Anyone reading the thread can see it so I have nothing to hide or anything.
> 
> Later an old donkey came along because he wanted some attention.



If only all we Arabs were united I'd be going off on every other ethnicity on this earth and threaten to nuke them.

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## al-Hasani

IndoUS said:


> If there is a war, then Ukraine is pretty much going to get steam rolled over by Russia. Ukraine cannot match the Russian military might, and it is highly unlikely that the EU or the Nato forces will intervene, since they have just started to pull out of one war in the middle east. It would be better for Ukraine to just give up its southern part that has the Russian base and Russian supporters, than to lose the entire country.



Correct. We already discussed your first point earlier if you take a quick look. The question is whether Russia can afford a full-scale invasion of the majority pro-Rusisan areas of Ukraine (South and East). I am not sure about that one. During 2008 they only invaded a small part of Georgia. Abkhazia. It would really polarize the two players (NATO-Russia and its allies). But NATO would have no other option should Russia invade Ukraine.

I assume that India is neutral for now but leaning slightly towards Russia as an old ally of her?


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## xenon54 out

Hazzy997 said:


> If only all we Arabs were united I'd be going off on every other ethnicity on this earth and threaten to nuke them.

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## guluchulo

Doritos11 said:


> The beautiful ancient Arab world is something you non Semites could only dream of. The Arabian tribes of the beautiful ancient peninsula share a lot of history whom established worlds largest empires and most remarkable civilizations, among them the Dilmun civilization in the Peninsula.
> Us Semites originate from the Arabian Peninsula as all other Semites. You dumb Mongol, try to understand, your country has been used as a clove. Ruled by various ancient Semitic people and invaders, then came the Persian invaders and finally the us Arab invaders.
> You were nothing before you encountered us Semites. You were useless nomads that roamed the steppes of Central Asia & Mongolia like a bunch of savages, something you are proud of. You first became relevant when you encountered us. That is the reality. Don't make me laugh.
> I think that I exposed the Mongols enough for today.
> 
> Us Semites civilized you Mongols after all and gave you an identity, recorded you people the first time you appeared in the civilized world 2800 years ago and here you are talking big while you don’t even know your own roots
> 
> The 500 million Arabs in the world together form the worlds strongest superpower, something Mongols will never have.
> 
> As I said stick to making kebabs, a dish you stole from us Semetic Arabs like all the other Arab dishes that you claim are Turkish cuisine LOL.
> 
> The beautiful diverse Arab world
> 
> Saudi Arabia - Hejaz




This is hilarious, i lost it at 3 photos of diverse arab world without desert and camels. Lol

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## Falcon29

xenon54 said:


>



Relax my friend, I am God's slave and all power belongs to God.

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> If only all we Arabs were united I'd be going off on every other ethnicity on this earth and threaten to nuke them.



Soon. Soon.





@Doritos11 a very nice proposal my Mongol friend but I think that I will stick to the Han Chinese. The relations are way older (Russia is a young nation and people) and those two people are the two biggest ethnic groups in the world. Only fitting that we would become allies and rule the world. Don't forget that China is our biggest trading partner as well.

I would not rule out Russia out completely though. They still can leave the evil side for the good side.

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## xenon54 out

Hazzy997 said:


> Relax my friend, I am God's slave and all power belongs to God.


Lol im relax, not that i have fear from nearly 450 million ancient Arab world.

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## Hakan

Hazzy997 said:


> If only all we Arabs were united I'd be going off on every other ethnicity on this earth and threaten to nuke them.


Sen ne diyorsun lan?

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Lol im relax, not that i have fear from nearly 450 million ancient Arab world.



Maybe the ancient and huge Arab world should make a alliance with the soon to be Turan? Or what it is called? How about that? A Turan ruled by the Oghuz tribe or some other tribe. Don't recall your conclusions.

I always wanted to rule Kazakhstan. Borat's homeland!


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## Falcon29

Please world war three as soon as possible.

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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Maybe the ancient and huge Arab world should make a alliance with the soon to be Turan? Or what it is called? How about that? A Turan ruled by the Oghuz tribe or some other tribe. Don't recall your conclusions.
> 
> I always wanted to rule Kazakhstan. Borat's homeland!


At least we are not butchering achother like you....

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## Falcon29

Kaan said:


> Sen ne diyorsun lan?



I don't know any turkish brother.

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## al-Hasani

Hazzy997 said:


> Please world war three as soon as possible.



@Doritos11 should follow hero Saddam Hussein's footsteps. He loves him anyway that secret Ba'athi. The Turks will also love him because he dealt with the Kurds better than they could ever dream about.



xenon54 said:


> At least we are not butchering achother like you....



You talking about Iraq? Turkmens are involved there so are they in Syria. But you have been butchering each other throughout history. That's why you have not even a Turkic Union with all 5 or 6 Turkic states or one single language.

Anyway it seems that you are incapable of taking a joke when you are making similar jokes yourself. A shame.


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## IndoUS

al-Hasani said:


> Correct. We already discussed your first point earlier if you take a quick look. The question is whether Russia can afford a full-scale invasion of the majority pro-Rusisan areas of Ukraine (South and East). I am not sure about that one. During 2008 they only invaded a small part of Georgia. Abkhazia. It would really polarize the two players (NATO-Russia and its allies). But NATO would have no other option should Russia invade Ukraine.
> 
> I assume that India is neutral for now but leaning slightly towards Russia as an old ally of her?



I believe that Russia for now won't go to a full blown war, since it will affect its image in international community, rather it will slowly force Ukraine to give up control of the region by simply amassing troops in the region. Ukraine right now is pretty weak and the government is also weak, they can't really go on and start a war with a former super-power and potential future super-power. Russia doesn't really need to go on the offensive yet, just show force and psychologically break down the moral of the Ukraine government to the point where it has no other options. Let's face it other than strong words, there is nothing the west can do to force Russia in pulling out of the region, and I highly doubt that any of the western countries are in any position to deploy any of their forces in Ukraine, NATO right now is pretty stumped since their whole Afghanistan campaign, they have lost a lot of money in the war in Afghanistan and are still struggling to get out of an economic downturn. The last thing they want is to create a flash point with Russia. 

As for India, we have always been neutral. Though, I am pretty sure that behind doors, it will be Russia since we have much better ties with them.

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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> You talking about Iraq? Turkmens are involved there so are they in Syria. But you have been butchering each other throughout history. That's why you have not even a Turkic Union or a similar language.


Turkmens defend themselves from barbarians, but they are actually peacefull.

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## Doritos11

xenon54 said:


> Turkmens defend themselves from barbarians, but they are actually peacefull.



We’ve driven everyone out of the thread that was on topic

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## al-Hasani

IndoUS said:


> I believe that Russia for now won't go to a full blown war, since it will affect its image in international community, rather it will slowly force Ukraine to give up control of the region by simply amassing troops in the region. Ukraine right now is pretty weak and the government is also weak, they can't really go on and start a war with a former super-power and potential future super-power. Russia doesn't really need to go on the offensive yet, just show force and psychologically break down the moral of the Ukraine government to the point where it has no other options. Let's face it other than strong words, there is nothing the west can do to force Russia in pulling out of the region, and I highly doubt that any of the western countries are in any position to deploy any of their forces in Ukraine, NATO right now is pretty stumped since their whole Afghanistan campaign, they have lost a lot of money in the war in Afghanistan and are still struggling to get out of an economic downturn. The last thing they want is to create a flash point with Russia.
> 
> As for India, we have always been neutral. Though, I am pretty sure that behind doors, it will be Russia since we have much better ties with them.



Indeed. Russia can pressure Ukraine economically and geopolitically since Ukraine relies on Russian gas and investments. So this whole mess is indeed clearly in Russia's favor. Anything else would be strange knowing that this is Russia's backyard. Yes, that's what I suspected. Most Indian users also seem in favor of Russia here. Likewise Chinese. That's funny knowing the Chinese-Indian rivalry that is probably the worst here after the Indian-Pak rivalry.



xenon54 said:


> Turkmens defend themselves from barbarians, but they are actually peacefull.



How cute. Did not stop the Turkic barbarians from killing and fighting against each other throughout history. Can't even unite today and don't even have a Turkic Union where all of the few (5 or 6) Turkic states are present. Nor even a single language. A shame indeed. I stopped reading after the word "Barbarian". The Mongols don't ring a bell for you do they? The biggest barbarians in history. Widely recognized as such.

Anyway @Doritos11 he is calling you Iraqis for barbarians. Nice friend you got there. Congrats.

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## cirr

Go Russia！

We are with you！！

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> How cute. Did not stop the Turkic barbarians from killing and fighting against each other throughout history. Can't even unite today and don't even have a Turkic Union where all of the few (5 or 6) Turkic states are present. Nor even a single language. A shame indeed. I stopped reading after the word "Barbarian". The Mongols don't ring a bell for you do they? The biggest barbarians in history. Widely recognized as such.
> 
> Anyway @Doritos11 he is calling you Iraqis for barbarians. Nice friend you got there. Congrats.



This is because people in the middle eastern region like to be treated like dogs to know their place & live in peace, but this government is ruled by peaceful Safavids.


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## al-Hasani

cirr said:


> Go Russia！
> 
> We are with you！！



Is China planning to get involved directly? What is your take on the situation?


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## xenon54 out

Doritos11 said:


> We’ve driven everyone out of the thread that was on topic


Well, not everybody has fun with a racist clown.



al-Hasani said:


> How cute. Did not stop the Turkic barbarians from killing and fighting against each other throughout history. Can't even unite today and don't even have a Turkic Union where all of the few (5 or 6) Turkic states are present. Nor even a single language. A shame indeed. I stopped reading after the word "Barbarian". The Mongols don't ring a bell for you do they?


Well we fought eachother throught history and found 16 Empires, thats long time ago.

Arabs are butchering eachother in 21st century, your socieities are still living 500 years behind the rest of the world, 

Guys isnt the ancient arab culture (which still has ancient rules) wonderfull?

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Well, not everybody has fun with a racist clown.
> 
> 
> Well we fought eachother throught history and found 16 Empires, thats long time ago.
> 
> Arabs are butchering eachother in 21st century, your socieities are still living 500 years behind the rest of the world,
> 
> Guys isnt the ancient arab culture (which still has ancient rules) wonderfull?



90% of the entire Arab world is completely peaceful. More peaceful than your country that has been at war with the Kurds for decades were thousands of people have died. I think that more Turks died in WW1 than Arabs have ever died in large parts of the Arab world due to wars.

The Armenian genocide is also a chapter for itself.

But indeed the Mongols and other similar people originating in Central Asia were indeed very civilized and are today known as peaceful people.


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Anyway @Doritos11 he is calling you Iraqis for barbarians. Nice friend you got there. Congrats.


He is smart enough to get my comments the way i mean it.



al-Hasani said:


> I think that more Turks died in WW1 than Arabs have ever died in large parts of the Arab world due to wars.


Yeah by saving our country from Imperialist and their slaves, thats something to be proud of what these people did back then.

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> He is smart enough to get my comments the way i mean it.



You were probably referring to this I assume?

Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict


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## cirr

Juice said:


> Plus that mighty AC you guys are so proud of.



Yeah。

We also are proud of the Ukrainians for creating a possibility，even probability，to further suck dry your mighty adopted country。

Don't chicken out，the mighty US。

Send your boys to the battle field，or at least provide assistance to Ukraine in the hundreds of billions，not the token 1 billion USD promised so far，for Ukrainian blood is not cheap。

Otherwise the mighty US will turn into the laughingstock of the world。A nation of cowards。

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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> You were probably referring to this I assume?
> 
> Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict


I can also post random links so what?

Arab slave trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/news/id_6980
The Arab American News - Domestic workers: Modern day slavery in Arab countries
http://www.arabamericannews.com/news/news/id_6980

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## al-Hasani

Özay Mehmet in his book _Islamic Identity and Development: Studies of the Islamic Periphery_ mentions:[29]

“The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "*in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages." (Lewis 1968: 1)*
In the words of a British observer of the Ottoman values and institutions at the start of the twentieth century: *"The surest way to insult an Ottoman gentleman is to call him a 'Turk'. His face will straightway wear the expression a Londoner's assumes, when he hears himself frankly styled a Cockney. He is no Turk, no savage, he will assure you, but an Ottoman subject of the Sultan, by no means to be confounded with certain barbarians styled Turcomans, and from whom indeed, on the male side, he may possibly be descended."*(Davey 1907: 209)


Bishop Fabri of Vienna (1536–41) claimed that:

_"There are no crueler and more audacious villains under the heavens than the Turks who spare no age or sex and mercilessly cut down young and old alike and pluck unripe fruit from the wombs of mothers"._[14]

The term "Turk" has acquired the a meaning similar to "barbarian" or "heathen" in various European languages,[14][36][37][38][39] or use "Turk" as a slur or curse.[14][40] Due to that negative influence, it had instances of negative use and image in the U.S.[41]

Hilarious is it not?

I have not even commented on your Mongol cousins since we all know about their barbarianism.

Just ask the Chinese, Indian, Arab, Iranian etc. users here.

@Doritos11 is obviously a Safavid so he does not count.


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## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> Özay Mehmet in his book _Islamic Identity and Development: Studies of the Islamic Periphery_ mentions:[29]
> 
> “The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "*in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages." (Lewis 1968: 1)*
> In the words of a British observer of the Ottoman values and institutions at the start of the twentieth century: *"The surest way to insult an Ottoman gentleman is to call him a 'Turk'. His face will straightway wear the expression a Londoner's assumes, when he hears himself frankly styled a Cockney. He is no Turk, no savage, he will assure you, but an Ottoman subject of the Sultan, by no means to be confounded with certain barbarians styled Turcomans, and from whom indeed, on the male side, he may possibly be descended."*(Davey 1907: 209)
> 
> 
> Bishop Fabri of Vienna (1536–41) claimed that:
> 
> _"There are no crueler and more audacious villains under the heavens than the Turks who spare no age or sex and mercilessly cut down young and old alike and pluck unripe fruit from the wombs of mothers"._[14]
> 
> The term "Turk" has acquired the a meaning similar to "barbarian" or "heathen" in various European languages,[14][36][37][38][39] or use "Turk" as a slur or curse.[14][40] Due to that negative influence, it had instances of negative use and image in the U.S.[41]
> 
> Hilarious is it not?
> 
> I have not even commented on your Mongol cousins since we all know about their barbarianism.
> 
> Just ask the Chinese, Indian, Arab, Iranian etc. users here.
> 
> @Doritos11 is obviously a Safavid so he does not count.


They never saw anyone like us in history. We kicked butt and they know it thats why they had to revert to insults when dealing with us. Were proud of our history as conquers and the people that we conquered like to use Turk as an insult because they were scared of us.

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## cirr

KAL-EL said:


> There is not going to be WW3 over the Ukraine.



You mean the US are feared to death of Russian nukes and Ukraine，having been taken advantage of by the West。will now be left in the cold？

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> They never saw anyone like us in history. We kicked butt and they know it thats why they had to revert to insults when dealing with us. Were proud of our history as conquers and the people that we conquered like to use Turk as an insult because they were scared of us.



So Turks and the Ottoman elite kicked themselves or what because they obviously looked down on the word "Turk". Which Europe? You controlled Greece and small parts of Balkan. That's all. Arabs controlled a similar territory for much longer. Al-Andalus for 800 years. Sicily, parts of Southern Italy for 150 years. Cyprus, Malta etc. Despite that Arab have nowhere the same negative associations among Europeans historically despite them being the founders of Islam in the Europeans eyes. Arabs left numerous World UNESCO Heritage Sites whenever they were in Europe that are still standing. The Turks? Not much in that department. Well, they turned a church into a mosque. If anything only in the modern day due to 9/11.

Anyway no need to cry. Your compatriot was the one that started with the Barbarian talk. Thought this was fitting to make him quite.


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## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> You were probably referring to this I assume?
> 
> Armenian Genocide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish–Turkish_conflict


_"According to Ottoman archives, about 500,000 people were forced to relocate and around 500,000 were migrated to Caucasia on their own consent. The relocation process carried on for nine mounths. Talat Pasha thought of Konya first. But afterwards they have been resettled in Syria. *Nobody is definitely sure about the number of died Armenians. There are people claiming 800,000, or 1 million or even 1.5 million. These are all false. Before 1915, we know that there were 1.5 million Armenians according to the Patriarchate. If you compare those who returned in 1919 and those who didn't, you can calculate the highest possible number of Armenians who died on the way.* T*here is a report written by the Halep ambassador of the USA stating that they provided aid for 486 thousand Armenian migrants all registered with their names. All these official documents deny the assertions of 1 million death cases... In 1921, as stated by the British consulate in Istanbul, the whole population of Armenians in the world was defined.* This was done by the UN to determine the budget to be appropriated for Armenians. They recorded that 827 thousand of relocated Armenians were Turkish citizens. They also claim that "95 thousand Armenians were forced to change their religion to Islam, during the period of Kemalist Turkish Republic". When you add the 150 thousand who live in Istanbul, only then you get a number just over a million. *The number of those who died from illnes was about 100 thousand and those who were killed during attacks were 10 thousand."*_* 23 *
What is the Armenian Problem?


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## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The pro-democrazy supporters are the most disgusting creatures on Earth, and i hope Russia won't show any mercy and destroy em all in Ukraine.



Actually these people don't believe in democracy。

These people just use democracy as an excuse for toppling what they dislike，taking a leaf out of the US' book。

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## KAL-EL

cirr said:


> You mean the US are feared to death of Russian nukes and Ukraine，having been taken advantage of by the West。will now be left in the cold？



Russia would be nuked right back. What part of that do you delusional belligerent hyper-nationalists not quite understand? Said it once before and I'll say it again. Nuclear war is not like a video game in your little delusional PDF world. it's real life. Get yourself a reality check and stop living in your delusional video game war.

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## al-Hasani

@ChineseTiger1986

Can you please tell us about the Chinese viewpoint of the Mongols? Are they looked at as a civilized people and civilization or more as barbarians which Arabs, Iranians, Russians and Indians regard them as historically?

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## ChineseTiger1986

KAL-EL said:


> Russia would be nuked right back. What part of that do you delusional belligerent hyper-nationalists not quite understand?



Everyone here understand the nuclear bundle policy, but i don't think that US wanna to be perished first just for Ukraine.

So expect your President and his administration to be the first who caved in.



al-Hasani said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> Can you please tell us about the Chinese viewpoint of the Mongols? Are they looked at as a civilized people and civilization or more as barbarians which Arabs, Iranians and Indians regard them as?



China now has 25 million Mongols who are heavily sinicized, so they are considered as our brothers, they are also highly patriotic.

Despite the past, but for the unity of our country, we should look more in the future.

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## Falcon29

Even one shot fired can turn into a desperate situation of World War Three.


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## cirr

KAL-EL said:


> Russia would be nuked right back. What part of that do you delusional belligerent hyper-nationalists not quite understand?



So what？

The US is THE country that fears the nukes most。 Period！

The world has come to a stage which requires a total solution for a totally new start。

And major powers nuking each other is the shortest path to that。

Guess who will come out of an obliterated world first？I am sure it won't be the US。


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> Can you please tell us about the Chinese viewpoint of the Mongols? Are they looked at as a civilized people and civilization or more as barbarians which Arabs, Iranians, Russians and Indians regard them as historically?


Not the first time you are trying to drag Chinese in you racist discussions... pathetic.

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## al-Hasani

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Everyone here understand the nuclear bundle policy, but i don't think that US wanna to be perished first just for Ukraine.
> 
> So expect your President and his administration to be the first who caved in.
> 
> 
> 
> China now has 25 million Mongols who are heavily sinicized, so they are considered as our brothers, they are also highly patriotic.
> 
> Despite the past, but the unity of our country, we should look more in the future.



Yes, but I am talking historically not today. Today Mongols are obviously a peaceful people. The perception according to most historical sources of the Mongols in China was that of Barbarians. Hence why you had to built the Chinese Wall and also notice the millions of Chinese they killed.

All in all it is fair to say that the word Mongol has a negative ring in many cultures and among many people. The word gives accusations to barbarians and primitive people.



xenon54 said:


> Not the first time you are trying to drag Chinese in you racist discussions...



You asked for it. You started the Barbarian talk and then I gave you a few sources of how Ottomans looked at the word "Turk" and how other people have historically looked at Turks and that the word is synonymous to barbarian and heathen in many European languages. Even languages that had nothing to do with Turks.


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## KAL-EL

cirr said:


> So what？
> 
> The US is THE country that fears the nukes most。 Period！
> 
> The world has come to a stage which requires a total solution for a totally new start。
> 
> And major powers nuking each other is the shortest path to that。
> 
> Guess who will come out of an obliterated world first？I am sure it won't be the US。




My God, you really are batshit insane!

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## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> So Turks and the Ottoman elite kicked themselves or what because they obviously looked down on the word "Turk". Which Europe? You controlled Greece and small parts of Balkan. That's all. Arabs controlled a similar territory for much longer. Al-Andalus for 800 years. Sicily, parts of Southern Italy for 150 years. Cyprus, Malta etc. Despite that Arab have nowhere the same negative associations among Europeans historically despite them being the founders of Islam in the Europeans eyes. Arabs left numerous World UNESCO Heritage Sites whenever they were in Europe that are still standing? The Turks? Not much in that department. Well, they turned a church into a mosque. If anything only in the modern day due to 9/11.


This is the first time I have ever read any b.s of the ottomans using turk as a bad word yeah maybe the non turkic ottoman elite. If that was the case why would they label themselves as khans? We turks throughout history have controlled much larger parts of europe and china than you would ever dream about and for hundreds of years as well. Not to forget the majority of the indian sub continent. We still have muslim states in europe such as bosnia, kosovo, and albania not to forget eastern thrace. There are still millions of muslims in the balkans how many are in spain today that remain from the time of the moors.We built tons of amazing building just go to turkey and central asia and see for yourself not to forget the taj mahal in india. We built empires that were feared by millions through out history.


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> You asked for it. You started the Barbarian talk and then I gave you a few sources of how Ottomans looked at the word "Turk" and others historically and that it the word is synonymous to barbarian and heathen in many European languages. Even languages that had nothing to do with Turks.


So its a problem for you if i call Isis terrorists barbarians? 
Good to know your mindset....

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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> Yes, but I am talking historically not today. Today Mongols are obviously a peaceful people. The perception according to most historical sources of the Mongols in China was that of Barbarians. Hence why you had to built the Chinese Wall and also notice the millions of Chinese they killed.
> 
> All in all it is fair to say that the word Mongol has a negative ring in many cultures and among many people. The word gives accusations to barbarians and primitive people.



Yes, the Mongol Empire has killed many Chinese people, maybe up to 50% of the Chinese population at that time.

But from a world perspective, their empire has created a bridge between the East and the West.

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## faithfulguy

No one will nuke US as US will not be involved in this issue. This is a pure issue between Russia and Ukraine. And its up to them to figure it out themselves.


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## cleverrider

KAL-EL said:


> Russia would be nuked right back. What part of that do you delusional belligerent hyper-nationalists not quite understand?



You mean Moscow? Nothing else to Nuke here...
Without nukes the Russian military will be destroyed to bits, however it’s not worth the effort.

I want to know what is going on in pentagon as we speak; nobody plays geopolitics better than the Americans at this current moment.
Good times to get rid of Assad, along with Iran...?

I don’t think Ukraine means much to NATO (USA).


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## Falcon29

faithfulguy said:


> No one will nuke US as US will not be involved in this issue. This is a pure issue between Russia and Ukraine. And its up to them to figure it out themselves.



You're crazy, world war there is right around the corner. God bless.

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> This is the first time I have ever read any b.s of the ottomans using turk as a bad word yeah maybe the non turkic ottoman elite. If that was the case why would they label themselves as khans? We turks throughout history have controlled much larger parts of europe and china than you would ever dream about and for hundreds of years as well. Not to forget the majority of the indian sub continent. We still have muslim states in europe such as bosnia, kosovo, and albania not to forget eastern thrace. There are still millions of muslims in the balkans how many are in spain today that remain from the time of the moors.We built tons of amazing building just go to turkey and central asia and see for yourself not to forget the taj mahal in india. We built empires that were feared by millions through out history.



Mughals were still Mongolians and not Turks. Heavily mixed with Persians and Indians and some Arabs too. They were also Persianized. Claiming them as Turks is pathetic. They belonged to the Barlas Mongolian tribe. Nothing to do with Turks of Turkey.

*Özay Mehmet (sounds Turkish to me) *in his book _Islamic Identity and Development: Studies of the Islamic Periphery_ mentions:[29]

“The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "*in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages." (Lewis 1968: 1)*
In the words of a British observer of the Ottoman values and institutions at the start of the twentieth century: *"The surest way to insult an Ottoman gentleman is to call him a 'Turk'. His face will straightway wear the expression a Londoner's assumes, when he hears himself frankly styled a Cockney. He is no Turk, no savage, he will assure you, but an Ottoman subject of the Sultan, by no means to be confounded with certain barbarians styled Turcomans, and from whom indeed, on the male side, he may possibly be descended."*(Davey 1907: 209)

In Iran Turk is apparently associated with donkeys and being dumb according to the Iranian members.


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## telkon

@Kaan @xenon54 guys let this racist ancient oldest camel clown be. As turkish proverb goes "quarreling with stupid is the peak of stupidity" uzatmayin agalar, bu pic oryantalden beter. Sktir edin mal oglu mali.

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## al-Hasani

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yes, the Mongol Empire has killed many Chinese people, maybe up 50% of the Chinese population at that time.
> 
> But from a world perspective, their empire has created a bridge between the East and the West.



So In other words Chinese people also historically referred to them as barbarians which their actions deserved.

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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> Mughals were still Mongolians and not Turks. Heavily mixed with Persians and Indians and some Arabs too. They were also Persianized. Claiming them as Turks is pathetic. They belonged to the Barlas Mongolian tribe. Nothing to do with Turks of Turkey.
> 
> *Özay Mehmet (sounds Turkish to me) *in his book _Islamic Identity and Development: Studies of the Islamic Periphery_ mentions:[29]
> 
> “The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "*in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages." (Lewis 1968: 1)*
> In the words of a British observer of the Ottoman values and institutions at the start of the twentieth century: *"The surest way to insult an Ottoman gentleman is to call him a 'Turk'. His face will straightway wear the expression a Londoner's assumes, when he hears himself frankly styled a Cockney. He is no Turk, no savage, he will assure you, but an Ottoman subject of the Sultan, by no means to be confounded with certain barbarians styled Turcomans, and from whom indeed, on the male side, he may possibly be descended."*(Davey 1907: 209)
> 
> In Iran Turk is apparently associated with donkeys and being dumb according to the Iranian members.



The Mughals were Turkicized Mongols.

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## al-Hasani

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Mughals were Turkicized Mongols.



Later completely Persianized who married locals, Persians, Arabs and other people. So in fact their ancestry was Mongolian and their culture mostly Persian. Conclusion nothing to do with Turks. Especially not Turks of Turkey.
Everbyody knows this but some people have a hard time accepting it, it seems in their desperation for attaching themselves to World Unesco Heritage Sites.

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## ChineseTiger1986

al-Hasani said:


> So In other words Chinese people also historically referred to them as barbarians which their actions deserved.



Indeed, but Genghis Khan was a military genius, since the incompetence of China's rulers have brought this to themselves.

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## Developereo

al-Hasani said:


> Last it is interesting to know that the Russian oligarchy, basically the rulers of the country, and the Ukrainian ones have very close business ties. So it's in neither interest to see a Western and democratic Ukraine.



The West's interest in Ukraine is also limited to business interests. They don't give a damn about ordinary Ukrainians any more than anyone else does.



al-Hasani said:


> Of course one should not hope for an civil war but if that happens I hope that KSA and others will give Russia the medicine we gave to them in Chechnya. Knowing their behavior in Syria.



Don't even dream about it.

In Chechnya and Syria, it was Muslim ethnics who were dying in the crossfire. In Crimea and Ukraine, it would be Russians who would pay the price and, if KSA is shown to be causing massive Russian deaths, you can be sure Russia would retaliate directly onto KSA (like US did in Afghanistan)


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## Falcon29

I hope we all kill each other.


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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> So its a problem for you if i call Isis terrorists barbarians?
> Good to know your mindset....



You were not talking about ISIS but Iraqis and other Arabs. Can't fool anybody here. Yes, I support ISIS despite always insulting them and being against them even in this very thread a few hours ago. That's right Einstein. Just admit that you scored an own goal and move on. I was not calling Turks barbarian until you started.


----------



## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> Mughals were still Mongolians and not Turks. Heavily mixed with Persians and Indians and some Arabs too. They were also Persianized. Claiming them as Turks is pathetic. They belonged to the Barlas Mongolian tribe. Nothing to do with Turks of Turkey.
> 
> *Özay Mehmet (sounds Turkish to me) *in his book _Islamic Identity and Development: Studies of the Islamic Periphery_ mentions:[29]
> 
> “The ordinary Turks (Turkmen) did not have a sense of belonging to a ruling ethnic group. In particular, they had a confused sense of self-image. Who were they: Turks, Muslims or Ottomans? Their literature was sometimes Persian, sometimes Arabic, but always courtly and elitist. There was always a huge social and cultural distance between the Imperial centre and the Anatolian periphery. As Bernard Lewis expressed it: "*in the Imperial society of the Ottomans the ethnic term Turk was little used, and then chiefly in a rather derogatory sense, to designate the Turcoman nomads or, later, the ignorant and uncouth Turkish-speaking peasants of the Anatolian villages." (Lewis 1968: 1)*
> In the words of a British observer of the Ottoman values and institutions at the start of the twentieth century: *"The surest way to insult an Ottoman gentleman is to call him a 'Turk'. His face will straightway wear the expression a Londoner's assumes, when he hears himself frankly styled a Cockney. He is no Turk, no savage, he will assure you, but an Ottoman subject of the Sultan, by no means to be confounded with certain barbarians styled Turcomans, and from whom indeed, on the male side, he may possibly be descended."*(Davey 1907: 209)
> 
> In Iran Turk is apparently associated with donkeys and being dumb according to the Iranian members.


Again all of our enemies use it as an insult and I explained the reason earlier.

You are just a complete retard. When you are arguing against Persians or pakistani you say the mughals are turks but when I say it it is wrong.
The *Mughal Empire* (Urdu: مغلیہ سلطنت‎, _Mug̱ẖliyah Salṭanat_),[4] self-designated as *Gurkani* (Persian: گورکانیان‎, _Gūrkāniyān_),[5]was an empire extending over large parts of the Indian subcontinent and ruled by a dynasty of Chagatai-Turkic origin

They spoke Turkish to and even if they are mongols they are still altaic.

Whats your point in this whole discussion any way?


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## Hyperion

Absolutely nothing on the lines of doomsday will happen.... following events will occur.

1. Russia will drop in troops.
2. America, France and GB will protest.
3. American senate will issue stern warning.
4. EU will follow suit, by passing a resolution.
5. UN will be neutered with several veto's.
6. Russia won't give a crap and annex Crimea anyways.
7. America will follow further threats... perhaps send two carrier groups....
8. Russia will increase military strength to 200,000
9. EU & U.S will bad mouth Russia
10. December 2014, will arrive. US and EU will forget about what happened.
11. Obama's rating will take a nose dive, as GOP would have milked the situation by pressuring Obama into a no win situation, and having a little bit of brain, he wouldn't bite.

Game over. Chicken was played, with grand winner Russia. Pristine annexation with least collateral damage.

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## Beidou2020

cleverrider said:


> You mean Moscow? Nothing else to Nuke here...
> Without nukes the Russian military will be destroyed to bits, however it’s not worth the effort.
> 
> I want to know what is going on in pentagon as we speak; nobody plays geopolitics better than the Americans at this current moment.
> Good times to get rid of Assad, along with Iran...?
> 
> I don’t think Ukraine means much to NATO (USA).



Russian conventional military can crush the US military without nukes.

Yankee military got destroyed and humiliated in the Korean War by our volunteer army armed with sticks and stones

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## Doritos11

ISIS are the true mujahideen, Jahbat Nusra are Khawarij secular dogs using Islam for support, may their punishment be harsh.


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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> Again all of our enemies use it as an insult and I explained the reason earlier.
> 
> You are just a complete retard. When you are arguing against Persians or pakistani you say the mughals are turks but when I say it it is wrong.
> The *Mughal Empire* (Urdu: مغلیہ سلطنت‎, _Mug̱ẖliyah Salṭanat_),[4] self-designated as *Gurkani* (Persian: گورکانیان‎, _Gūrkāniyān_),[5]was an empire extending over large parts of the Indian subcontinent and ruled by a dynasty of Chagatai-Turkic origin
> 
> They spoke Turkish to and even if they are mongols they are still altaic.
> 
> Whats your point in this whole discussion any way?



So your own Ottoman elite and Turkish authors are now enemies? Do you even know what you are saying?

Everybody outside of you few nationalistic Turks that are deprived of any realistic thought process when Turks are discussed can recognize that the Mughals were Mongols in terms of paternal ancestry and that they became fully Persianized and married mostly locals. So nothing to do with any "Turkic civilization". Claiming so is pathetic.

In that case the Ottomans were an Arab civilization since the Ottomans were Arabized in language, customs, alphabet, system etc. and married foreigners.


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> You were not talking about ISIS but Iraqis and other Arabs. Can't fool anybody here. Yes, I support ISIS despite always insulting them and being against them even in this very thread a few hours ago. That's right Einstein. Just admit that you scored an own goal and move on. I was not calling Turks barbarian until you started.


I was talking about how Turkmes are getting targeted by Isis.


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## faithfulguy

Hazzy997 said:


> You're crazy, world war there is right around the corner. God bless.



How is it a world war if this is something that Ukraine and Russia need to figure it out themselves.


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## Water Car Engineer

Beidou2020 said:


> Russian conventional military can crush the US military without nukes.
> 
> Yankee military got destroyed and humiliated in the Korean War by our volunteer army armed with sticks and stones




No it cant. Their army is total joke compared to US + Europe.

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> I was talking about how Turkmes are getting targeted by Isis.



You were talking about how Arabs were barbarians for apparently killing each other all the time (while that only happens in 3-4 countries where others are involved) and then you suddenly try to tell us that you talked about ISIS. Ok.

All forgetting how Turks have historically fought each other constantly, the Armenian Genocide, the ONGOING Turkish-Kurdish civil war, the bigger WW1 Turkish loses, the fact that Turks are not even united in an union (!) and don't even speak the same language.

Or how the word Turk has been seen in many cultures let alone the Mongols.

That's an own goal.


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## Oldman1

Beidou2020 said:


> Russian conventional military can crush the US military without nukes.
> 
> Yankee military got destroyed and humiliated in the Korean War by our volunteer army armed with sticks and stones



Right. I still see South Korea so you failed. And you failed in Vietnam. But you know what, the Russian military got destroyed by the bearded men with stick and stones in Afghanistan. Hows that?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Water Car Engineer said:


> No it cant. Their army is total joke compared to US + Europe.



They are no match for USA in the global scale, but their military hardwares are more complete than that of Europe.


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## faithfulguy

Kaan said:


> Again all of our enemies use it as an insult and I explained the reason earlier.
> 
> You are just a complete retard. When you are arguing against Persians or pakistani you say the mughals are turks but when I say it it is wrong.
> The *Mughal Empire* (Urdu: مغلیہ سلطنت‎, _Mug̱ẖliyah Salṭanat_),[4] self-designated as *Gurkani* (Persian: گورکانیان‎, _Gūrkāniyān_),[5]was an empire extending over large parts of the Indian subcontinent and ruled by a dynasty of Chagatai-Turkic origin
> 
> They spoke Turkish to and even if they are mongols they are still altaic.
> 
> Whats your point in this whole discussion any way?



Its not big deal to beat up and rule Indians under your boots. Almost everyone get a turn to beat them up.


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> You were talking about how Arabs were barbarians for apparently killing each other all the time (while that only happens in 3 countries where others are involved) and then you suddenly try to tell us that you talked about ISIS. Ok.


Show me my post where i called Arabs barbarians...

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## cleverrider

Beidou2020 said:


> Russian conventional military can crush the US military without nukes.
> 
> Yankee military got destroyed and humiliated in the Korean War by our volunteer army armed with sticks and stones



Russian Army 

Russian Navy Vs US Navy 

Russian Airforce


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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They are no match for USA in the global scale, but their military hardwares are more complete than that of Europe.



You are talking about the European countries right? France, UK, Germany, Spain, Sweden, etc.


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## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They are no match for USA in the global scale, but their military hardwares are more complete than that of Europe.




Europe only needs to tag along. And those tag along buddies are strong/sophisticated themselves.


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## faithfulguy

Water Car Engineer said:


> No it cant. Their army is total joke compared to US + Europe.



US is not going to send troops to Ukraine. Ukraine is on its own. Heck, half of Ukrainians would back Russia in this war against the people that just overthrown the government. Ukraine should be divided into 2 pieces in my opinion and its compose of two polar views in two regions. Ukraine is like Czechsolvakia. it will dissolve into 2 pieces.

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## al-Hasani

faithfulguy said:


> Its not big deal to beat up and rule Indians under your boots. Almost everyone get a turn to beat them up.



Mughals were Mongolians who became Persianized culturally and linguistically and who used mainly Persian architecture and later they started marrying Persians, Arabs, locals etc. The only connection they have with any Turks is that in the beginning they married some Turks from Uzbekistan. But that obviously does not make them Turks. In that case the Ottomans were Caucasian for marrying Caucasian women often.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> You are talking about the European countries right? France, UK, Germany, Spain, Sweden, etc.



Russia has space manned technology, does Europe have that?

Russia has Glonass, does Europe have the functional Galileo?


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## Falcon29

faithfulguy said:


> How is it a world war if this is something that Ukraine and Russia need to figure it out themselves.



Bro, just take my word, this whole situation is about explode in our faces. God bless.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Water Car Engineer said:


> Europe only needs to tag along. And those tag along buddies are strong/sophisticated themselves.



Their only hope is to drag Russia's economy down, but with China on the back, Russia has nothing to worry about.

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## Hakan

@al-Hasani in the end you were conquered and ruled for hundreds of years by uncivilized ,barbaric turks who contributed nothing to the world, and who have no unesco sites (your belief), and who have no culture. Wow you guys must really suck maybe thats why your type betrayed their own muslim brothers in ww1.


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## KingMamba

Beidou2020 said:


> Russian conventional military can crush the US military without nukes.
> 
> Yankee military got destroyed and humiliated in the Korean War by our volunteer army armed with sticks and stones



Russians cant do human waves though, they already have a population problem.


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## KAL-EL

Hazzy997 said:


> Bro, just take my word, this whole situation is about explode in our faces. God bless.



I want my last meal to be really good then!

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## ChineseTiger1986

cleverrider said:


> Russian Army
> 
> Russian Navy Vs US Navy
> 
> Russian Airforce



- Russian Army is very strong

- Russian Navy is defensive

- Russian Air Force is also defensive

So i don't see how the US can beat Russia in its home turf.

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## faithfulguy

Hazzy997 said:


> Bro, just take my word, this whole situation is about explode in our faces. God bless.



Every situation has potential for explosion into WWIII. I don't see it in this one as Ukraine will soon find out that they are within Russia's sphere of influence. US will not interfere.


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## cirr

KAL-EL said:


> My God, you really are batshit insane!

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## Falcon29

This world is boring without a major war, finally we can experience a situation of the past and we will be in the books of future history, the greatest war ever fought we will experience, I couldn't be anymore thankful.

Time to test all our weapons all of us.


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## faithfulguy

KAL-EL said:


> I want my last meal to be really good then!



At least I live to see my Seahawks became world champs.


----------



## guluchulo

al-Hasani said:


> Yes, but I am talking historically not today. Today Mongols are obviously a peaceful people. The perception according to most historical sources of the Mongols in China was that of Barbarians. Hence why you had to built the Chinese Wall and also notice the millions of Chinese they killed.
> 
> All in all it is fair to say that the word Mongol has a negative ring in many cultures and among many people. The word gives accusations to barbarians and primitive people.
> 
> 
> 
> You asked for it. You started the Barbarian talk and then I gave you a few sources of how Ottomans looked at the word "Turk" and how other people have historically looked at Turks and that the word is synonymous to barbarian and heathen in many European languages. Even languages that had nothing to do with Turks.



Mongols though couldnt conquer South Asia thanks to muslim empires and brave soldiers. But they sure as hell destroyed Punjab, Pakistan many times. So later on when Mongols become muslims and came as Mughals and conquered subcontinent. Punjabis muslims and punjabi hindus continued to hate them for this reason, also they didnt hire any punjabi muslim or hindu in army, instead they hired them from proper India. And their enemy number 1 was Pashtuns from day 1. Its save to say ancestors of Pakistanis hated Mongols and Mughals contrary to what is tought in our schools.

And who can forget Mongols destroying Islamic civilization which was on top in science etc. Basically Mongols only brought misery and destruction to the world, Europe and South Asia was lucky to not exprience their rule.

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## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Their only hope is to drag Russia's economy down, but with China on the back, Russia has nothing to worry about.



I was replying to someone talking in terms of military.

Their army, airforces, navy are all joke compared to US. All they have is nukes. US has strong military allies as well. <<< That doest want Russia anywhere close to them.


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## KAL-EL

faithfulguy said:


> At least I live to see my Seahawks became world champs.



Very true!! Before you're obliterated, at least you can hold your head up high with pride on the Seahawks Championship.


----------



## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> @al-Hasani in the end you were conquered and ruled for hundreds of years by uncivilized ,barbaric turks who contributed nothing to the world, and who have no unesco sites (your belief), and who have no culture. Wow you guys must really suck.



No actually not. Most of the Arab world was independent. Already told you that by using sources. You might take a look at the Ottoman maps. Morocco, Oman and various of other Arab kingdoms, sultanates, sharifates, emirates, sheikdoms were independent or regional powers. The Areas that were under Ottoman rule (Levant, most of Iraq, Hijaz and parts of Egypt and some coastal regions of Northern Africa) were largely self-governmed and had local rulers. It was not complete rule the way the Mongols did it for instance.

Well, the Mongols also ruled large parts of the world but they were still largely known as Barbarians and contributed very little to humanity outside of the military aspect.

I am just posting sources as a reply to your compatriots post number 265 in this thread that started this discussion. I do not consider any people as Barbarians. What is important is what other people/civilizations considered people x or y as.
Then tell me about the World Unesco Heritage Sites that Turks made. I never said that they did not make any I just don't know about any. I mean alone in Spain and Portugal I can mention many World UNESCO Heritage sites that Arabs helped built.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Water Car Engineer said:


> I was replying to someone talking in terms of military.
> 
> Their army, airforces, navy are all joke compared to US. All they have is nukes. US has strong military allies as well. <<< That doest want Russia anywhere close to them.



If the US Army has caused too much damages on Russia in a conventional war, then expect Russia to retaliate with nukes.


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## Hakan

al-Hasani said:


> No actually not. Most of the Arab world was independent. Already told you that by using sources. You might take a look at the Ottoman maps. Morocco, Oman and various of other Arab kingdoms, sultanates, sharifates, emirates, sheikdoms were independent or regional powers.
> 
> Well, the Mongols also ruled large parts of the world but they were still largely known as Barbarians and contributed very little to humanity outside of the military aspect.
> 
> I am just posting sources as a reply to your compatriots post number 265 in this thread that started this discussion. I do not consider any people as Barbarians. What is important is what other people/civilizations considered people x or y as.
> Then tell me about the World Unesco Heritage Sites that Turks made. I never said that they did not make any I just don't know about any. I mean alone in Spain and Portugal I can mention many World UNESCO Heritage sites that Arabs helped built.


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## Falcon29

I predict World War Three then 7 year cease fire then World War 4, God bless.


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## faithfulguy

KAL-EL said:


> Very true!! Before you're obliterated, at least you can hold your head up high with pride on the Seahawks Championship.



yes. And my gut feeling is that Seahawks will repeat next year so this Russian and Ukrainian hot heads need to hold off killing each other until the Seahawks dynasty is over.


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## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> If the US Army has caused too much damages on Russia in a conventional war, then expect Russia to retaliate with nukes.



Yes, but I was replying to that guy in terms of conventional warfare without nukes.

How will you deal with a monster like the US military + cornered European states?

Good luck Russia!


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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia has space manned technology, does Europe have that?
> 
> Russia has Glonass, does Europe have the functional Galileo?



Okay is that all you can point out? So they don't have their own GPS version, they can still use ours. And space technology they have. After all they have sent unmanned probes in space especially Mars. No different than manned.


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## al-Hasani

guluchulo said:


> Mongols though couldnt conquer South Asia thanks to muslim empires and brave soldiers. But they sure as hell destroyed Punjab, Pakistan many times. So later on when Mongols become muslims and came as Mughals and conquered subcontinent. Punjabis muslims and punjabi hindus continued to hate them for this reason, also they didnt hire any punjabi muslim or hindu in army, instead they hired them from proper India. And their enemy number 1 was Pashtuns from day 1. Its save to say ancestors of Pakistanis hated Mongols and Mughals contrary to what is tought in our schools.
> 
> And who can forget Mongols destroying Islamic civilization which was on top in science etc. Basically Mongols only brought misery and destruction to the world, Europe and South Asia was lucky to not exprience their rule.



Yes, they destroyed Baghdad which was the Islamic and world capital for centuries in 1258. From that point the Islamic Golden Age ended and Muslim dominance declined. It was never the same again.

Siege of Baghdad (1258) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Hyperion

My request for last meal would be...... 

1. Medium rare pepper stake:





2. And five of these... if it's summers






3. OR three of these if it's winters:








KAL-EL said:


> I want my last meal to be really good then!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Water Car Engineer said:


> Yes, but I was replying to that guy in terms of conventional warfare without nukes.
> 
> How will you deal with a monster like the US military + cornered European states?
> 
> Good luck Russia!



That's why US and Europe will do everything to avoid a conventional war with Russia, because they should realize the consquence of pushing Russia into the corner.


----------



## KAL-EL

Hazzy997 said:


> I predict World War Three then 7 year cease fire then World War 4, God bless.

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## guluchulo

al-Hasani said:


> No actually not. Most of the Arab world was independent. Already told you that by using sources. You might take a look at the Ottoman maps. Morocco, Oman and various of other Arab kingdoms, sultanates, sharifates, emirates, sheikdoms were independent or regional powers. The Areas that were under Ottoman rule (Levant, most of Iraq, Hijaz and parts of Egypt and some coastal regions of Northern Africa) were largely self-governmed and had local rulers. It was not complete rule the way the Mongols did it for instance.
> 
> Well, the Mongols also ruled large parts of the world but they were still largely known as Barbarians and contributed very little to humanity outside of the military aspect.
> 
> I am just posting sources as a reply to your compatriots post number 265 in this thread that started this discussion. I do not consider any people as Barbarians. What is important is what other people/civilizations considered people x or y as.
> Then tell me about the World Unesco Heritage Sites that Turks made. I never said that they did not make any I just don't know about any. I mean alone in Spain and Portugal I can mention many World UNESCO Heritage sites that Arabs helped built.



Turks ruled Persia and adopted their culture language etc, which was introduced to South Asia. Basically there is no match to turks when it comes to military in ancient times but civlization, language etc isnt their strong point in history.

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## KAL-EL

Hyperion said:


> My request for last meal would be......
> 
> 1. Medium rare pepper stake:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. And five of these... if it's summers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. OR three of these if it's winters:



I'm right there with ya

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## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> That's why US and Europe will do everything to avoid a conventional war with Russia, because they should realize the consquence of pushing Russia into the corner.



If they didnt have nukes, they would get their *** kicked.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Okay is that all you can point out? So they don't have their own GPS version, they can still use ours. And space technology they have. After all they have sent unmanned probes in space especially Mars. No different than manned.



Russia will make sure that US will physically stay out of this conflict.

Obama and his administration won't have the gut to directly intervene.

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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Then tell me about the World Unesco Heritage Sites that Turks made. I never said that they did not make any I just don't know about any. I mean alone in Spain and Portugal I can mention many World UNESCO Heritage sites that Arabs helped built.


This is only from Turkey.
List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## KAL-EL

LMAO this thread has become...

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


>



Are you going to reply to my questions? Regarding the World Unesco Heritage sites in Europe that Arabs created I can quickly post a wide range of them.
Can you even post 2-3 World Unesco Heritage Sites built by Turks? That's the question. I asked you the same question last week but got no reply. Just some reply about Turks never being settled people, warriors and living in Yurts traditionally.


----------



## Falcon29

I already prepared my bunkers just in case of nuclear war and have packaged shawarma sandwiches up to a 7 month supply.


----------



## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> This is only from Turkey.
> List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



MADE BY TURKS. What is now Turkey was non-Turkish for by far most of its history.

Shall I take that list one by one?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Water Car Engineer said:


> If they didnt have nukes, they would get their *** kicked.



Ukraine is Russia's heartland, and if losing Ukraine, then Russia would have nothing to lose.

But Ukraine is not that important to the West, so it is worthy to keep Russia at bay just for Ukraine?


----------



## faithfulguy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia will make sure that US will physically stay out of this conflict.
> 
> Obama and his administration won't have the gut to directly intervene.



Obama is weak anyway. He is a wuss. He would not do anything even if Russia land on FL from Cuba. He would resign first and let a real leader take over when push come to shove.

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## BDforever

Water Car Engineer said:


> If they didnt have nukes, they would get their *** kicked.


oh come on, you are brave and big heart- you should not care about nuke, fight-fight


----------



## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ukraine is Russia's heartland, and if losing Ukraine, then Russia would have nothing to lose.
> 
> But Ukraine is not that important to the West, so it is worthy to keep Russia at bay just for Ukraine?




Hypothetically speaking. If it ever came to that.


----------



## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia will make sure that US will physically stay out of this conflict.
> 
> Obama and his administration won't have the gut to directly intervene.



Okay man. I just pointed out what the Europeans got that can counter any Russian military forces and you start spouting something else.


----------



## faithfulguy

Hazzy997 said:


> I predict World War Three then 7 year cease fire then World War 4, God bless.



And when will the anti christ show up?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

faithfulguy said:


> Obama is weak anyway. He is a wuss. He would not do anything even if Russia land on FL from Cuba. He would resign first and let a real leader take over when push come to shove.



GWB would have done the same, just see how he abandoned his ally Saakashvili to face Russia alone in 2008.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> MADE BY TURKS. What is now Turkey was non-Turkish for by far most of its history.
> 
> Shall I take that list one by one?


Anatolia was allways home to various Ethnicities and cultures of course there are also sites from other cultures.

This list contains alot Turkish Unesco World Heritage sites.

List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey (Tentative list) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## faithfulguy

Hyperion said:


> My request for last meal would be......
> 
> 1. Medium rare pepper stake:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. And five of these... if it's summers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. OR three of these if it's winters:



The medium rare pepper stead look like entre you will find at a strip club. I know this because some one from my work went to one recently.


----------



## Falcon29

faithfulguy said:


> And when will the anti christ show up?



You wouldn't want that.


----------



## faithfulguy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> GWB would have done the same, just see how he abandoned his ally Saakashvili to face Russia alone in 2008.



Not Ronald Reagan though. People would respect what he says. But he probably won't say anything in this case. My guy is Ron Paul.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Okay man. I just pointed out what the Europeans got that can counter any Russian military forces and you start spouting something else.



Europe doesn't have an overwhelming conventional military advantage to Russia like that of the US.

So without US involvement, Russia is not worried to face anyone in a conventional warfare.


----------



## KingMamba

al-Hasani said:


> Yes, they destroyed Baghdad which was the Islamic and world capital for centuries in 1258. From that point the Islamic Golden Age ended and Muslim dominance declined. It was never the same again.
> 
> Siege of Baghdad (1258) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Lol Ottomans were at their height considered a superpower what you talking about declined.


----------



## Hyperion

Dude... couldn't find better images..... besides, what's wrong with food at a strip club? Furthermore, how do you know what it looked like - as supposedly, you weren't there! 



faithfulguy said:


> The medium rare pepper stead look like entre you will find at a strip club. I know this because some one from my work went to one recently.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

They just have so much junk to destroy, though.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

faithfulguy said:


> Not Ronald Reagan though. People would respect what he says. But he probably won't say anything in this case. My guy is Ron Paul.



Ron Paul would have the US stops poking its nose around the world.


----------



## KAL-EL

it's almost become like controlled chaos here  So many things happening


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> MADE BY TURKS. What is now Turkey was non-Turkish for by far most of its history.
> 
> Shall I take that list one by one?


Ok then let me pick them out for you since you are incapable of doing it.

-Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex
-Historic Areas of Istanbul (Such as Sultan Ahmed mosque, Suleymaniye mosque and several hamams and Palaces)
-Bursa and Cumalikizik Early Ottoman urban and rural settlements
-Hacı Bektaş Veli complex
-Ishak Pasha Palace
-Historic town of Birgi
-Konya-A capital of Seljuk Civilization
-Niğde Monuments
-Odunpazarı historical urban site
-The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel
-Safranbolu

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Europe doesn't have an overwhelming conventional military advantage to Russia like that of the US.
> 
> So without US involvement, Russia is not worried to face anyone in a conventional warfare.



Even without the U.S. The European countries combined are capable of taking on the Russian military if they go head to head. That I have no doubt.


----------



## al-Hasani

KingMamba said:


> Lol Ottomans were at their height considered a superpower what you talking about declined.



The Ottomans were still the smallest Caliphate and the Mongols contributed to the end of the Islamic Golden Age. At that time the Islamic world was the most advanced place in the world. The Ottomans were never that and from 1258 the Muslim world only declined compared to its former glory.



xenon54 said:


> This is only from Turkey.
> List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Göreme National Park and the Rock Sites of Cappadocia

1)A national park is a natural heritage. Not something one builds.

Cappadocia had nothing to do with any Turks or Turkic people.

Cappadocia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) Great Mosque and Hospital of Divrigi 

It was built by Ahmed Shah (sounds Iranian that last name) who was the ruler of the Mengujekids. According to the sources the founders of that Anatolian Beylik were unknown but I will give it to the Turks.

3) Historic Areas of Istanbul

Most of the historic areas of Istanbul are Greek and non-Turkish heritage. After all it first became Turkish 500 years ago. The photo shows Hagia Sophia which was originally a Orthodox Greek Church.

4) Hattusha: the Hittite Capital

Nothing to do with Turks once again.

5) Nemrut Dağ

Obviously has nothing to do with Turks or Turkic people either. 2000 years old statues. Far before Turks entered Anatolia.

6) Hierapolis–Pamukkale

The first name gives it away. Greek heritage. The last one is nature. No people can claim nature.

7) Xanthos Letoon

Obviously Greek heritage as well.

8) City of Safranbolu

Despite that city probably being founded by Greeks the architecture seem as Ottoman architecture so that is Turkic heritage.

9) Archaeological Site of Troy

Troy? I think that everyone knows that this has nothing to do with Turkic people.

10) Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex

Ottoman and Turkic heritage. Built in the early 1500's.

11) Neolithic Site of Çatalhöyük

Neolithic gives it away. Way before any ethnic groups existed.

So 3 Turkic heritage sites in Turkey only.


----------



## Water Car Engineer

What in the hell does Turkish, Arabic history have to do with anything?

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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> So 3 Turkic heritage sites in Turkey only.



You like to ignore posts dont you?



xenon54 said:


> Ok then let me pick them out for you since you are incapable of doing it.
> -Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex
> -Historic Areas of Istanbul (Such as Sultan Ahmed mosque, Suleymaniye mosque and several hamams and Palaces)
> -Bursa and Cumalikizik Early Ottoman urban and rural settlements
> -Hacı Bektaş Veli complex
> -Ishak Pasha Palace
> -Historic town of Birgi
> -Konya-A capital of Seljuk Civilization
> -Niğde Monuments
> -Odunpazarı historical urban site
> -The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel
> -Safranbolu

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## Falcon29

@al-Hasani 

Bro, this our chance to unleash the secret coordinated KSA/Palestine/Turkey/Iran nuclear strike and Islamic caliphate. 

God bless. God bless. What an gifted opportunity.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Even without the U.S. The European countries combined are capable of taking on the Russian military if they go head to head. That I have no doubt.



Russia is a huge land power, so it is not a good idea to fight them on the land.

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> You like to ignore posts dont you?



Do you understand that you as an Turk cannot claim non-Turkic heritage such as Greek, Httite and other non-Turkic heritage that Turks had nothing to do with? Just because it is located in present day Turkey does not make it Turkic heritage. If Bulgarians invaded Turkey tomorrow they could not claim those 3 Turkic heritage sites in Turkey as their own could they?

1) Göreme National Park and the Rock Sites of Cappadocia

A national park is a natural heritage. Not something one builds.

Cappadocia had nothing to do with any Turks or Turkic people.

Cappadocia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

2) Great Mosque and Hospital of Divrigi

It was built by Ahmed Shah (sounds Iranian that last name) who was the ruler of the Mengujekids. According to the sources the founders of that Anatolian Beylik were unknown but I will give it to the Turks.

3) Historic Areas of Istanbul

Most of the historic areas of Istanbul are Greek and non-Turkish heritage. After all it first became Turkish 500 years ago. The photo shows Hagia Sophia which was originally a Orthodox Greek Church.

4) Hattusha: the Hittite Capital

Nothing to do with Turks once again.

5) Nemrut Dağ

Obviously has nothing to do with Turks or Turkic people either. 2000 years old statues. Far before Turks entered Anatolia.

6) Hierapolis–Pamukkale

The first name gives it away. Greek heritage. The last one is nature. No people can claim nature.

7) Xanthos Letoon

Obviously Greek heritage as well.

8) City of Safranbolu

Despite that city probably being founded by Greeks the architecture seem as Ottoman architecture so that is Turkic heritage.

9) Archaeological Site of Troy

Troy? I think that everyone knows that this has nothing to do with Turkic people.

10) Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex

Ottoman and Turkic heritage. Built in the early 1500's.

11) Neolithic Site of Çatalhöyük

Neolithic gives it away. Way before any ethnic groups existed.

So 3 Turkic heritage sites in Turkey only.


----------



## KingMamba

@al-Hasani either you messing with the Turks or you are a troll lol.


----------



## Hyperion

Nothing. Yet, everything. As Al-Hasani could educate you on the super-woooper-moooper-cooper-dooper superiority of Arabs on all other races.... and if you try to question it, he shall kill you by arguing with you for 48 hours straight. He runs on special batteries! 



Water Car Engineer said:


> What in the hell does Turkish, Arabic history have to do with anything?

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## Falcon29

Hyperion said:


> Nothing. Yet, everything. As Al-Hasani could educate you on the super-woooper-moooper-cooper-dooper superiority of Arabs on all other races.... and if you try to question it, he shall kill you by arguing with you for 48 hours straight. He runs on special batteries!



He's the man he's taking all you down.

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## Water Car Engineer

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia is a huge land power, so it is not a good idea to fight them on the land.




I mean the air superiority the US will gain in the battlefield would be epic, you have to agree?







All this Russian junk would be sleeping with the fishes. And Germans, Scandinavians, etc will do fine.


----------



## Hyperion

Most of the times he is trolling himself.... we all take turns..... he, however, stays engaged for days at end...... he is at his last leg now..... we aiming for his heart to stop within a few hours! 



KingMamba said:


> @al-Hasani either you messing with the Turks or you are a troll lol.



That's what we make him think. Read my post above! 



Hazzy997 said:


> He's the man he's taking all you down.

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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Do you understand that you as an Turk cannot claim non-Turkic heritage such as Greek, Httite and other non-Turkic heritage that Turks had nothing to do with? Just because it is located in present day Turkey does not make it Turkic heritage. If Bulgarians invaded Turkey tomorrow they could not claim those 3 Turkic heritage sites in Turkey as their own could they?


Seriously whats your problem?

*The following sites are all Turkish sites in Unesco world heritage list*!


-Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex
-Historic Areas of Istanbul (Such as Sultan Ahmed mosque, Suleymaniye mosque and several hamams and Palaces)
-Bursa and Cumalikizik Early Ottoman urban and rural settlements
-Hacı Bektaş Veli complex
-Ishak Pasha Palace
-Historic town of Birgi
-Konya-A capital of Seljuk Civilization
-Niğde Monuments
-Odunpazarı historical urban site
-The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel
-Safranbolu

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## olcayto

@xenon54 , with who are you trying to reason with?
At least don't allow him to ruin other topics, plus you don't have to prove anything to him.
İn the end he's the one trying to compensate for his inferiority complex.

P.s Ghassan don't quote me.

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## al-Hasani

KingMamba said:


> @al-Hasani either you messing with the Turks or you are a troll lol.



Read my post number 376. I think that I have made everything pretty clear. I am not trolling.

By his and your logic apparently (since you agree with him) the Spanish can claim Inca civilization since Peru is now culturally Spanish and also has many people of Spanish ancestry despite the Spaniards having nothing to do with it.

He is now claiming Greek and other non-Turkic heritage as Turkic heritage. That's pathetic.


----------



## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia is a huge land power, so it is not a good idea to fight them on the land.



The Europeans have enough experience fighting on land and they have the manpower and technology to do that.


----------



## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Seriously whats your problem?
> 
> *The following sites are all Turkish sites in Unesco world heritage list*!
> 
> 
> -Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex
> -Historic Areas of Istanbul (Such as Sultan Ahmed mosque, Suleymaniye mosque and several hamams and Palaces)
> -Bursa and Cumalikizik Early Ottoman urban and rural settlements
> -Hacı Bektaş Veli complex
> -Ishak Pasha Palace
> -Historic town of Birgi
> -Konya-A capital of Seljuk Civilization
> -Niğde Monuments
> -Odunpazarı historical urban site
> -The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel
> -Safranbolu



That only 3 of those World Unesco Heritage sites were built by Turkic people.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Water Car Engineer said:


> I mean the air superiority the US will gain in the battlefield would be epic, you have to agree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All this Russian joke would be sleeping with the fishes. And Germans, Scandinavians, etc will do fine.



Too bad the war on Ukraine will mostly about the ground warfare, and the navy would have very little role on that.

While Russia can also maintain the air superiority in its home turf.


----------



## Backbencher

Not only a land power but an air dominant power as well . There is no way that the western europe will match or compete well against a military superpower like Russia .


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> That only 3 of those World Unesco Heritage sites were built by Turkic people.



Do you have problems with counting? I can see more than 3 in my post.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> The Europeans have enough experience fighting on land and they have the manpower and technology to do that.



Considering Europe's performance in Libya, it is hard to imagine how they could fight a behemoth like Russia without the US.

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Do you have problems with counting? I can see more than 3 in my post.



I love how you desperately try to avoid my question and act like you don't know what I am referring to. Do you know the difference between heritage sites that are now located in Turkey AND heritage sites built by TURKS? Apparently not.

*Let me make it very simple:*

You cannot claim Greek and other non-Turkic heritage as your own just because it lies in Turkey today. You and other Turks claim that you came to what is now Turkey about 1000 years ago from Central Asia. So how can you claim heritage that is 2000 years old as your own? Care to answer me? Or just going to repeat yourself?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Akash A. said:


> Not only a land power but an air dominant power as well . There is no way that the western europe will match or compete well against a military superpower like Russia .



Russia's ground troops are extremely strong, while it can also maintain the air superiority in its home turf, so it is impossible for the European army to fight them in Ukraine.


----------



## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Considering Europe's performance in Libya, it is hard to imagine how they could fight a behemoth like Russia without the US.



The Europeans did their job well. The U.S. really didn't do much except fired cruise missiles and provide tanker support.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> I love how you desperately try to avoid my question and act like you don't know what I am referring to. Do you know the difference between heritage sites that are now located in Turkey AND heritage sites built by TURKS? Apparently not.
> 
> *Let me make it very simple:*
> 
> You cannot claim Greek and other non-Turkic heritage as your own just because it lies in Turkey today. You and other Turks claim that you came to what is now Turkey about 1000 years ago. So how can you claim heritage that is 2000 years old as your own? Care to answer me? Or just going to repeat yourself?


I dont claim anything, i picked all the heritage sites built by *Turks* out of that list.

These are all *Turkish* heritage sites not Greek or Roman or anything else.

-Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex
-Historic Areas of Istanbul (Such as Sultan Ahmed mosque, Suleymaniye mosque and several hamams and Palaces)
-Bursa and Cumalikizik Early Ottoman urban and rural settlements
-Hacı Bektaş Veli complex
-Ishak Pasha Palace
-Historic town of Birgi
-Konya-A capital of Seljuk Civilization
-Niğde Monuments
-Odunpazarı historical urban site
-The Tombstones of Ahlat the Urartian and Ottoman citadel
-Safranbolu

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia's ground troops are extremely strong, while it can also maintain the air superiority in its home turf, so it is impossible for the European army to fight them in Ukraine.



Lets say in theory Russia were to invade Estonia or Lithuania or Poland, and European nations were to respond without U.S. intervening, you think the European nations can't handle Russia?


----------



## telkon

KAL-EL said:


> LMAO this thread has become...



Its more like this

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## al-Hasani

@xenon54

Have you even looked at the World UNESCO Heritage list of Turkey? As in this list below?

List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only 3 out of those 11 World Unesco Heritage Sites were built by TURKIC PEOPLE. Rest by NON-TURKIC people.

Most of those heritage sites PREDATE the arrival of Turkic people to Anatolia.



> 1) Göreme National Park and the Rock Sites of Cappadocia
> 
> A national park is a natural heritage. Not something one builds.
> 
> Cappadocia had nothing to do with any Turks or Turkic people.
> 
> Cappadocia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 2) Great Mosque and Hospital of Divrigi
> 
> It was built by Ahmed Shah (sounds Iranian that last name) who was the ruler of the Mengujekids. According to the sources the founders of that Anatolian Beylik were unknown but I will give it to the Turks.
> 
> 3) Historic Areas of Istanbul
> 
> Most of the historic areas of Istanbul are Greek and non-Turkish heritage. After all it first became Turkish 500 years ago. The photo shows Hagia Sophia which was originally a Orthodox Greek Church.
> 
> 4) Hattusha: the Hittite Capital
> 
> Nothing to do with Turks once again.
> 
> 5) Nemrut Dağ
> 
> Obviously has nothing to do with Turks or Turkic people either. 2000 years old statues. Far before Turks entered Anatolia.
> 
> 6) Hierapolis–Pamukkale
> 
> The first name gives it away. Greek heritage. The last one is nature. No people can claim nature.
> 
> 7) Xanthos Letoon
> 
> Obviously Greek heritage as well.
> 
> 8) City of Safranbolu
> 
> Despite that city probably being founded by Greeks the architecture seem as Ottoman architecture so that is Turkic heritage.
> 
> 9) Archaeological Site of Troy
> 
> Troy? I think that everyone knows that this has nothing to do with Turkic people.
> 
> 10) Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex
> 
> Ottoman and Turkic heritage. Built in the early 1500's.
> 
> 11) Neolithic Site of Çatalhöyük
> 
> Neolithic gives it away. Way before any ethnic groups existed.
> 
> So 3 Turkic heritage sites in Turkey only.



I am afraid that I am speaking to a wall. Now you are going to claim Greek, Neolithic, Hittites etc. sites despite them having NOTHING to do with Turks and not even being founded by them. Hilarious.

When are you going to claim the Pyramids?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> The Europeans did their job well. The U.S. really didn't do much except fired cruise missiles and provide tanker support.



Obama got dragged into that war because France has fired the first shot against Gaddafi.

BTW, without the US cleaned the air defense of Libya with its Tomahawk cruise missiles, Europe would have suffered more casualty in there.



Oldman1 said:


> Lets say in theory Russia were to invade Estonia or Lithuania or Poland, and European nations were to respond without U.S. intervening, you think the European nations can't handle Russia?



Why Russia has to invade Lithuania and Poland?

But Ukraine is a whole different matter, Russia would fight for it till death.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> @xenon54
> 
> Have you even looked at the World UNESCO Heritage of Turkey? As in this list below?
> 
> List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Only 3 out of those 11 World Unesco Heritage Sites were built by TURKIC PEOPLE. Rest by NON-TURKEY people.
> 
> Most of those heritage sites PREDATE the arrival of Turkic people to Anatolia.
> 
> I am afraid that I am speaking to a wall.


Then take a look at this list, i picked all of them out of this list.

List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey (Tentative list) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Obama got dragged into that war because France has fired the first shot against Gaddafi.
> 
> BTW, without the US cleaned the air defense of Libya with its Tomahawk cruise missiles, Europe would have suffered more casualty in there.



The Europeans have their own long range weapons like cruise missiles including the UK which has its own Tomahawk arsenal. We contributed to help them. That don't mean they needed us that badly.


----------



## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Then take a look at this list, i picked all of them out of this list.
> 
> List of World Heritage Sites in Turkey (Tentative list) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Fail. Those are not World UNESCO Heritage sites yet. That's a *tentative list*. I mean WTF? Every country has dozens of sites on the tentative list. I could also go through that list to see how many were built by Turkic people and how many were built by non-Turks before the Turks arrived to Anatolia about 1000 years ago.

Probably the vast majority, like the actual World Heritage Site list dealing with Turkey, were built by non-Turks.


----------



## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Why Russia has to invade Lithuania and Poland?
> 
> But Ukraine is a different matter, Russia would fight its till death.



Its just a theory. It be like asking why did Russia invade Poland back in WW2.


----------



## bolo

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> To all Chinese brothers, when we have issue with Japan with US in Pacific, did Russians come to support us? let Russians to fix their own problem, better take care of our own.


Exactly. Plus Ukraine and China have excellent relationship on all levels.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Fail. Those are not World UNESCO Heritage sites yet. That's a *tentative list*. I mean WTF? Every country has dozens of sites on the tentative list. I could also go through that list to see how many were built by Turkic people and how many were built by non-Turks before the Turks arrived to Anatolia about 1000 years ago.
> 
> Probably the vast majority, like the actual World Heritage Site list dealing with Turkey, were built by non-Turks.


Ok than lets take a look at this.

Turkey - UNESCO World Heritage Centre

4 of the sites out of 11 sites in Turkey are built by Turks, this isnt bad considering the number of civilisations lived in Anatolia.


----------



## Oldman1

bolo said:


> Exactly. Plus Ukraine and China have excellent relationship on all levels.



Now thats an interesting situation right there considering China could block any veto condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Wonder how that would turn out.

Or you could abstain and stay out of it.


----------



## telkon

Send turkics and our cousins mongols. We're barbarians. we'll surely fok up every ruskis and ukrains in tandem with our brothers crimean tatars LOL. End of problem brothers and sisters. As we did fok ancient oldest semitics and ruskis and europeans and almost everyone in the old world LOL. We're scourge of god in the end

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## bolo

Oldman1 said:


> Now thats an interesting situation right there considering China could block any veto condemning Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Wonder how that would turn out.
> 
> Or you could abstain and stay out of it.


veto doesn't do anything if you're referring to the UN vote. Russia vetoed against Iraq and Afghanistan invasion but still happened.

Most likely abstain.


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> 3.



-City of Safranbolu
-Great Mosque and Hospital of Divriği
-Historic Areas of Istanbul (Majority of this area in todays form is also built by Turks)
-Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex

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## olcayto

telkon said:


> Send turkics and our cousins mongols. We're barbarians. we'll surely fok up every ruskis and ukrains in tandem with our brothers crimean tatars LOL. End of problem brothers and sisters. As we did fok ancient oldest semitics and ruskis and europeans and almost everyone in the old world LOL. We're scourge of god in the end



You just couldn't resist, could you

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## Hakan

al-hasani just denies facts. He twists things to fit his b.s arguments. One time he says that the Turks in turkey are not turks the other time he says they are Turks. He says Turks and mongols are not related but then he calls us Mongols. Xenon listed him Turkish built UNESCO sites like 5 times and he still doesn't accept it. I gave evidence that the mughals were Turks but he doesn't accept the source yet he uses the same website. He never answers any of our questions nor does he accept any of our statements. He doesn't want to admit that he was conquered by subhuman Turks.
The only logical explanation for this level of stupidity is that he must be on hasheesh.

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> -City of Safranbolu
> -Great Mosque and Hospital of Divriği
> -Historic Areas of Istanbul (Majority of this area in todays form is also built by Turks)
> -Selimiye Mosque and its Social Complex



Ok, let's say 4 to make you happy despite Istanbul being a Greek city originally and it's biggest tourist attraction being a Greek Orthodox Church originally as well. That's what most think when they think about old Istanbul.

Let me remind you that there are more World UNESCO Heritage Sites built by Arabs in Spain alone.

I never said anything about it being bad or called Turks Barbarians. You in your post number 265 called Arabs that first so I just replied by posting sources of what the Ottoman elite thought of the word Turk and the non-Turks.

It was also your compatriot that started insulting me for no reason which started this discussion. While nobody had mentioned any Turks.

I think I made my point @xenon54 already for all to see.

There will be no such future discussions if you tell your compatriots not to start games with me by being the first with the insults out of nowhere. You don't see me trolling the Turkish section. If this does not happen there will be no discussions.



Kaan said:


> al-hasani just denies facts. He twists things to fit his b.s arguments. One time he says that the Turks in turkey are not turks the other time he says they are Turks. He says Turks and mongols are not related but then he calls us Mongols. Xenon listed him Turkish built UNESCO sites like 5 times and he still doesn't accept it. I gave evidence that the mughals were Turks but he doesn't accept the source yet he uses the same website. He never answers any of our questions nor does he accept any of our statements. He doesn't want to admit that he was conquered by subhuman Turks.



I never deny any facts. You call yourself Turks (Turkish people) while I have only said that most genetic tests show that the majority of modern day Turks are indigenous. Call that denying the facts. Ok go along. Deny genetics. Now when you claim that you are Turks then I obviously will call you Turks.

I said that Mongols are the cousins of Turks. Which is correct. I never said that they were the same and when I did it was trolling to similar replies.

Mughals were NOT Turks. They were still Mongolians. They belonged to the MONGOLIAN Barlas tribe. EVERYBODY that is not a Turk in this discussion and the old one agreed with this. Only you 2-3 Turks. Funny is it not? You are the ones denying facts here not me.

I always answer your questions why do you think that I discuss with you and answering all of your points here?


----------



## Oldman1

bolo said:


> veto doesn't do anything if you're referring to the UN vote. Russia vetoed against Iraq and Afghanistan invasion but still happened.
> 
> Most likely abstain.



I don't remember Russia vetoing it that way. You may have to check it again.


----------



## telkon

olcayto said:


> You just couldn't resist, could you




Everyone's posting OT sh.t in here, so why not  besides, we uncivilised turks did subjugate ancient civilised oldest you know who LOL


----------



## Hakan

You never answered why you were conquered by Turks. Please explain.


----------



## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> Everyone's posting OT sh.t in here, so why not  besides, we uncivilised turks did subjugate ancient civilised oldest you know who LOL



When one has no arguments it is always easy to act like a French clown during the break. In case you don't know then it was one of your compatriots that started to insult me for no reason and later another of your compatriots was the one who started talking about barbarianism. Read post 265 in this thread.

You are still thinking about that 1 week old debate where the Turkish users were not any better. I think it is time to move on for you. You don't see me trolling Turkish threads do you or talking about Turks in this thread before you compatriot started insulting me indirectly out of nowhere?


----------



## anonymus

al-Hasani said:


> In case this happens the Ukrainian army will get annihilated since EU/NATO will not help them. Ukraine is too insignificant for that to happen.
> 
> Of course one should not hope for an civil war but if that happens I hope that KSA and others will give Russia the medicine we gave to them in Chechnya. Knowing their behavior in Syria.




This conflict may have repercussions in Syria in form of increased US support and possible intervention in order to make a point.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Ok, let's say 4 to make you happy despite Istanbul being a Greek city originally and it's biggest tourist attraction being a Greek Orthodox Church originally as well. That's what most thing when they think about old Istanbul.


There are Sultan Ahmed mosque, Süleymaniye mosque, Topkapi palace, several Hamams, and several Ottoman palaces in historic city center of Istanbul, so its not wrong to say its mostly Turkish.




al-Hasani said:


> Let me remind you that there are more World UNESCO Heritage Sites built by Arabs in Spain alone.



But not that much in KSA..

Saudi Arabia - UNESCO World Heritage Centre



al-Hasani said:


> I never said anything about it being bad or called Turks Barbarians. You in your post number 265 called Arabs that first so I just replied by posting sources of what the Ottoman elite thought of the word Turk and the non-Turks.


Again, i was referring to Isis but you are free to believe whatever you want.




al-Hasani said:


> It was also your compatriot that started insulting me for no reason which started this discussion. While nobody had mentioned any Turks.


Yeah they insulted you personally and you decided to insult all Turks...


----------



## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> You never answered why you were conquered by Turks. Please explain.



Who are we? I already told you that you only controlled parts of the Arab world. Those controlled still ruled by locals that were loyal to the Sultan. You still live in that fantasy where you conquered everything? I am sorry to tell you but most, in terms of area, was never conquered by the Ottomans.

But you already answered those questions in the earlier debate. Internal Arab infighting which weakened the Arab Caliphates after nearly 1000 years rule.


----------



## olcayto

telkon said:


> Everyone's posting OT sh.t in here, so why not  besides, we uncivilised turks did subjugate ancient civilised oldest you know who LOL



Aaah yes. The ancient simit.

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> There are Sultan Ahmed mosque, Süleymaniye mosque, Topkapi palace, several Hamams, and several Ottoman palaces in historic city center of Istanbul, so its not wrong to say its mostly Turkish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But not that much in KSA..
> 
> Saudi Arabia - UNESCO World Heritage Centre
> 
> 
> Again, i was referring to Isis but you are free to believe whatever you want.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah they insulted you personally and you decided to insult all Turks...



Yet the main symbol and the entire city itself is Greek originally. Let's call it 3.5. As I said there are more World UNESCO Heritage sites in Spain built by the Arabs.

Yet, Iraq only has 3 World UNESCO Heritage sites despite being one of the oldest civilizations. Widely recognized as such. Also KSA is just 1 out of over 20 Arab countries. The two World Unesco Heritage that are are pretty impressive and 2 are going to be added soon and probably more on the tentative list. Archaeology has been a no-go area in KSA for 1400 years. Until recently.

Ok, let's say that. Your earlier post and post 265 did not tell that though.
I did not insult any Turks until you started insulting Arabs. I did not even start this debate.


----------



## Strigon

So, besides "*Haha you suck! I am better than you!*" any new developments on the situation?

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## Hakan

Address my previous post regarding the armenians. Prove those numbers wrong instead of spreading lies.


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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> Address my previous post regarding the armenians. Prove those numbers wrong instead of spreading lies.



I answered all of your points now. The latest question you answered yourself last week in that past debate and now I have repeated it for you since you were right.

Which lies? I posted a link to the Wikipedia article and an article about the Armenian Genocide. I did not invent it.

Go consult Wikipedia and all the other of thousands of sources that recognize it as a genocide. What do you want me to do?
Can you now answer me what World Unesco Heritage sites the Turks built in Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan. 4 out of the 6 Turkic states.

We already covered Turkey where we confirmed that either 3 or 4 of the 11 World Unesco Heritage sites were built by Turks.


----------



## faithfulguy

Hyperion said:


> Dude... couldn't find better images..... besides, what's wrong with food at a strip club? Furthermore, how do you know what it looked like - as supposedly, you weren't there!



He took a pic of the food and show it to us.

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## Hakan

If you are now doubting the validity of what you posted about the Armenian issue the why do you post it? And if the Armenian issue was already discussed then why did you bring it up?


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## faithfulguy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ron Paul would have the US stops poking its nose around the world.



Hell no. Ron Paul would not interfere with other countries.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Russia is a huge land power, so it is not a good idea to fight them on the land.



Napoleon and Hitler lost their empire in the Russian steppes

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> If you are now doubting the validity of what you posted about the Armenian issue the why do you post it?



I am not doubting anything since I am not an expert neither are you. If you deny something, for instance like some people deny Holocaust despite all the sources that show this including the ones you can read in encyclopedias, Wikipedia etc., then those that deem it incorrect are to prove that they are right.

Most people in this world recognize the Armenian Genocide.

You have to show me sources, reliable ones, that say that the Armenian genocide was a hoax. If you do I will gladly take a look at them.

For instance I cannot deny the Arab Slave Trade. How would I do that? Only by posting sources that claim the opposite.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Yet the main symbol and the entire city itself is Greek originally. Let's call it 3.5. As I said there are more World UNESCO Heritage sites in Spain built by the Arabs.


Nothing wrong with this, but still this is just one of Istanbuls symbols between many Turkish.




al-Hasani said:


> Yet, Iraq only has 3 World UNESCO Heritage sites despite being one of the oldest civilizations. Also KSA is just 1 out of over 20 Arab countries. The two World Unesco Heritage that are are pretty impressive and 2 are going to be added soon and probably more on the tentative list.



Well Turkey is also only one of the Turkic countrys.




al-Hasani said:


> I did not insult any Turks until you started insulting Arabs. I did not even start this debate.


I dont like this immature discussion anyway, i allready tried to stop other Turkish members from starting a debate in other threads.

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## Hakan

List of World Heritage Sites in Kazakhstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of World Heritage Sites in Kyrgyzstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
List of World Heritage Sites in Mongolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Most people in this world recognize the Armenian Genocide.


This isnt most.

Armenian Genocide recognition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Nothing wrong with this, but still this is just one of Istanbuls symbols between many Turkish.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well Turkey is also only one of the Turkic countrys.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont like this immature discussion anyway, i allready tried to stop other Turkish memebers from starting a debate in other threads.



The Turkish users, 4-5 have been after me because of that Madinah debate. Yet I only countered the accusations of being traitors and other nonsense. Turkish users were insulting Arabs for no reason in that thread before even any Arab had posted in that thread. I only commented on this thread because @anonymus had quoted me!
Yet I could quickly make a thread about how the Turks gained the Caliphate and spin it as treachery to the Arabs who ruled it previously for nearly 1000 years from the very beginning. Then it evolved. Since then 3-4 Turkish users have sought to troll in threads where I participate, such as this one, to start pointless discussions.

Especially @T-123456 who apparently is 46 years old (!) yet behaves like a baby often.

Yet you or anybody else cannot find one post of mine in the Turkish section or elsewhere where I troll Turks out of nowhere?

Find me that.

I made 3 anti-Turk threads in the ME section right after that debate about Madinah last week simply because @Kaan started to make 1 anti-KSA post on the ME section for no reason. Apparently due to that debate. He started making that anti-KSA thread so I replied. Only natural. I then replied by making a thread about Turkey jailing the most journalists in the world (apparently), then he made another anti-KSA thread and I replied with another anti-Turkey thread. Then he made another anti-KSA thread and I replied again.

In total we each made 3 anti-KSA and anti-Turkey threads.

That's about it.

Until today where your 46 year old compatriot was doing/started what I described in the beginning of this post.


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## Hakan

My sources regarding the Armenian issue are based on an ottoman census done prior to the events of 1915. The numbers in this census make your sources invalid. Now that they are proven invalid I expect you to never use them again. Now answer my next question. Why don't the Armenian historians sit down and discuss the facts?


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## xenon54 out

@Kaan and other Turkish members, lets stop this immature and sensless dicussion.

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## Hakan

After he answers questions.


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## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> This isnt most.
> 
> Armenian Genocide recognition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



How many are political decisions and how many are based on historical data? That's the question.

Most Arab and Muslim countries if not all (have not looked at the list) do not recognize it not to offend a fellow Muslim country in Turkey.

Ok, let's assume that this is a hoax. I am not an expert. What is the Turkish version of events then and what are they based on?



Kaan said:


> My sources regarding the Armenian issue are based on an ottoman census done prior to the events of 1915. The numbers in this census make your sources invalid. Now that they are proven invalid I expect you to never use them again. Now answer my next question. Why don't the Armenian historians sit down and discuss the facts?



Who are my sources? I am simply posting the sources that deal with this Armenian Genocide or not. I am no expert.

Post them again and I will take a look and study this.


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## Hakan

This series will explain what happened and what actions the Ottoman Government took better than I can. I expect you not to comment on the Armenian issue untill you watch this series which you probably will not due.










What is the Armenian Problem?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Oldman1 said:


> Its just a theory. It be like asking why did Russia invade Poland back in WW2.



For now, there is no need to invade Poland.

But Ukraine is the red line for Russia, it cannot join EU, at least for the eastern part.


----------



## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> This series will explain what happened and what actions the Ottoman Government took better than I can. I expect you not to comment on the Armenian issue unroll you watch this series which you probably will not due.



You do realize that this whole Armenian Genocide thread made by me was a reply to you staring to make trolling anti-KSA threads on the ME section last Sunday night? You started it. I have never spoken about the Armenian Genocide before on this forum or anywhere else. Not even in real life.


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> How many are political decisions and how many are based on historical data? That's the question.
> 
> Ok, let's assume that this is a hoax. I am not an expert. What is the Turkish version of events then and what are they based on?


Well, the numbers of the victims are between 500'000 and 1.8 million (Armenias todays population 100 years later is around 2 million).

Shortly said, The Turkish version is that some Armenians began to revolt against the Empire with Russian help, so the goverment deported them down to Syria, unfortunately around 500'000 people died during the deportation.

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## Hakan

Why are you posting threads about the Armenian issue without doing any research and if you don't know anything about it? Why not post another topic about Turks?


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## telkon

Don't forget erzurum massacre, when armenians collected and burned turks in mosques and killed them on sight due to erzurum being under russian control at that time.

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> List of World Heritage Sites in Kazakhstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> List of World Heritage Sites in Kyrgyzstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> List of World Heritage Sites in Mongolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Ok, Kazakhstan has 3 World UNESCO Heritage Sites.

*1) Saryarka — Steppe and Lakes of Northern Kazakhstan




*
That's nature. It even says under type "Natural". Thus no people can claim this. I mean no person can claim nature as his own doing.

*2) Mausoleum of Khoja Ahmed Yasawi



*

Turkic although the architecture is Persian. The one buried is also an Turkic person.

*3) Petroglyphs within the Archaeological Landscape of Tamgaly
*
The petroglyphs are mostly Bronze Age, but in some cases from the Iron Age and the Medieval.[1]
Given that information I am not sure if you can claim that as Turkic given the age and apparently that part of Kazakhstan was inhabited by Indo-Iranians before. The link does not mention any age so hard to detect anything with certainty.

List of World Heritage Sites in Kazakhstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kyrgysztan has 1 World UNESCO Heritage Site.

1) *Sulayman-Too Sacred Mountain



*

That's a rock. So obviously nature that cannot be claimed by any people. Cultural significance or not.

List of World Heritage Sites in Kyrgyzstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Mongolia is not a Turkic country?! But we can take it.

Mongolia has 3 World UNESCO Heritage Sites.

*1) Orkhon Valley Cultural Landscape



*

That's obviously nature. Nobody can claim that as people.

*2) *Petroglyphic Complexes of the Mongolian Altai

No Wikipedia page about this or any photos so can't comment on this.

*3) Ubsunur Hollow, Uvs Lake Basin*




Nature as well obviously.

List of World Heritage Sites in Mongolia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So what I can see from this only 1 World UNESCO Heritage Site was built by Turks and that is the Mausoleum of Khoja Ahmed Yasawi in Kazakhstan.


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## telkon

And don't forget kayseri/pinarbasi raids where armenians raided turkish villages and killed everyone in 1914-15.

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> Why are you posting threads about the Armenian issue without doing any research and if you don't know anything about it? Why not post another topic about Turks?



Why are you posting anti-KSA posts on issues that you do not know about or have not researched? Remember who started it. You cannot blame me. Just like you cannot blame me for replying to the insult by your 46 year old compatriot that started the insults in this thread against me for no reason.


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## Hakan

I do know about those topics and I actually posted credible evidence and the one source you did not take as credible has not been countered with a source proving its invalidity. I posted those threads in response to your rants. now answer my question instead of attacking.


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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> I do know about those topics now answer my question instead of attacking.



Ok good. You already got an answer by me. I am no expert about the Armenian Genocide and have not read about it or talked about it here on this forum or in real life until I made that thread as an answer to your anti-KSA trolling in the ME section. Which you started. 

Did I not already tell that I am not an expert and that I am interested in seeing the other sides version of history? I wrote that less than 30 minutes ago?!

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## Hakan

You should apologize for posting false information and request that the mods remove that thread.


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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> You should apologize for posting false information and request that the mods remove that thread.



What? First of all what is false and what is not false is not up for you or me to decide but historians. Lastly I am not going to apologize for anything since that was just a troll thread and reply to the trolling you started by posting anti-KSA threads in the ME section.

I can do an apology if you apologize for your anti-KSA threads and tell your compatriots not to troll in sections that contain Arab news and for your compatriots falsely calling Arab for traitors for being against an non-existing Caliphate by then who was de facto ruled by a bunch of nationalists (Young Turks movement) that discriminated against most of the Ottoman population which was non-Turkish. Despite that only about 2-3 tribes in Hijaz revolted while many Arabs in Hijaz were against the uprising and all while many Arabs fought for the Ottomans and gave their life's. Despite the obvious injustice most of their people suffered from in those late years of the Ottomans and before where the regions were neglected. But obviously this is not about Islam for you but just nationalism hence the "traitor" comment. Maybe not you but most Turkish users here. That debate started our current debate and those comments from Turkish users aimed at Arabs were unmotivated and uncalled for knowing how the Turks got the Caliphate 400 years previously after nearly 1000 years of Arab rule of the Caliphate.

I also suspect that you made that controversial thread about Madinah to stir up anti-Arab sentiments. But that is just a thought one can get. Of course I will never know and nobody else outside yourself unless you told something.

If you do that I can easily apologize and we can forget this past 1 week. If not we simply will have to avoid each other since all of our discussions will be based on that discussion I am talking about.


----------



## fallstuff

al-Hasani said:


> What you talking about? Drunk? The amount of weirdos you see on the internet and in real life is probably the highest in Russia of all places. All you to do is make a few google searches and see the goodies for yourself. No disrespect. Lastly what has Islam to do with this? You follow Christianity yourself probably, at least most of your population does. That's an religion that also appeared in the ME among Semitic people.
> 
> You know very well that you were humiliated during the Cold War and erupted due to you not standing a chance against the Western world and its powerhouse. In fact give China a few more years and they are going to take your place as the main rival of the West. You will by then just side with them.
> 
> Russia has so many problems. Corruption, poverty, lack of quality products produced indigenously aside from partially the military sector, a declining population etc.
> 
> The most funny thing is that the Russian elite is more Western than the Westerners themselves. Just look at your rulers personal life and where some of his family life despite him being the ruler of Russia.
> 
> I know that you like to compare yourself to USA but Russia comparing itself with USA is frankly laughable.





> "lack of quality products produced indigenously",



Pretty rich coming from a Saudi !!!!


----------



## Hakan

I can only speak for my self and I don't tell the other members what to do and what not to do. Those threads that I opened were in response to you trolling in that thread about Fakhri Pasha who defended medinah from those who rebelled against the ottoman government which was recognized by the Muslim world as the caliphate. In the end you should still do the honorable thing and either apologize for posting information from invalid sources and you should admit that the sources are incorrect and request that the webmaster takes down the thread.


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## mahatir

flamer84 said:


> We will burn eventually if the russians are left unchecked.If you don't want to go head on like in the Ukraine a harsh answer has to be given via indirect routes.



new reality you will have to balance between eu and russia , the americans will sell you for a penny be sure on that

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## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> I can only speak for my self and I don't tell the other members what to do and what not to do. Those threads that I opened were in response to you trolling in that thread about Fakhri Pasha who defended medinah from those who rebelled against the ottoman government which was recognized by the Muslim world as the caliphate. In the end you should still do the honorable thing and either apologize for posting information from invalid sources or you should admit that the sources are incorrect and request that the webmaster takes down the thread.



The Ottoman Empire at that time was about to collapse. The Caliph had no power. Turkey was ruled by a bunch of nationalists. Young Turks Movement. For the locals the Ottomans by then were seen as nothing more than oppressors hence the majority rebelled like in many other places before that. Muslim as non-Muslim.

By your logic the Turks should had taken the Caliphate from the Arabs after nearly 1000 years of Arab rule of the Caliphate from the beginning. Yet the Turks did that. Despite the Abbasids being recognized worldwide as the Caliphs. Back then force was used. You took the Caliphate by force and you lost it due to force. You have to accept that. Also the many reasons for the Ottoman collapse has nothing to do with Arabs.

Once again who are you to say what is false and what is not? Are you an historian? Did you just solve the Armenian question?

I gave you the conditions for the apology. Either you accept it or not.

Why don't you write to the Webmaster yourself?


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## mahatir

Arzamas 16 said:


> We are fixing our problems one by one
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Demographics of Russia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



numbers dont matter , africa has 700 million blacks yet the french until today manage to rule them with their unused rifles . 

you just need to maintain your current 140 million number , more than that is just waste


----------



## Hakan

Okay I will tell the webmaster that the poster of the Armenian thread after conducting research has learned that the information is false and that h requests that it be taken down.
And we already discussed the historical issues you stated in the previous thread. And no the Armenian issue is not solved politically however the facts have been presented and they prove Armenian claims to be false.


----------



## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> *1) Orkhon Valley Cultural Landscape
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> That's obviously nature. Nobody can claim that as people.
> 
> .



You're dumb. You don't even understand what you post. Here, link for you from your beloved wikipedia. For, I'm afraid you can't understand more complex texts LOL

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkhon_Valley_Cultural_Landscape

And before piling sh.t on others, look at the mirror idiot. Your KSA has 2 unesco sites, one of them isn't even arab LOL

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## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> You're dumb. You don't even understand what you post. Here, link for you from your beloved wikipedia. For, I'm afraid you can't understand more complex texts LOL
> 
> en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orkhon_Valley_Cultural_Landscape
> 
> And before piling sh.t on others, look at the mirror idiot. Your KSA has 2 unesco sites, one of them isn't even arab LOL



All of them are Arabs clown. Nabateans were Arab and Semitic people. The two in KSA are more impressive anyway especially Madain Saleh a huge and over 2000 year old complex. Turkic equals Semitic.

Nothing what I posted is factually wrong. I took the information from the English Wikipedia page.

Anyway that is Mongolia which is NOT Turkic so you cannot claim them as yours. Hence there is no point in going into details.

In any case in 3 out of the 6 Turkic states only 4-5 World UNESCO Heritage Sites can be claimed by Turks. Arabs built more World UNESCO Heritage sites in Spain, LOL.


----------



## mahatir

SiCiSi said:


> The best part is, no one in the world can do anything about it. Russia is coming whether you like it or not.





al-Hasani said:


> Also when they invaded you and took your lands forever?



they might do that if the majoos take oil prices below 75 dollars , it costs putin regime 65 to drill oil out and 100 to balance their budget.


----------



## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> All of them are Arabs clown. Nabateans were Arab and Semitic people. Turkic equals Semitic.
> 
> Nothing what I posted is factually wrong. I took the information from the English Wikipedia page.
> 
> Anyway that is Mongolia which is NOT Turkic so you cannot claim them as yours. Hence there is no point in going into details.
> 
> In any case in 3 out of the 6 Turkic states only 4-5 World UNESCO Heritage Sites can be claimed by Turks. Arabs built more World UNESCO Heritage sites in Spain, LOL.



You're even dumber than you look LOL. By your logic, sites in spain do not count as arab, you idiot

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## mahatir

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Ukraine has no significance to USA at all, so it is not worthy for USA to trigger a MAD with Russia just for Ukraine.



taking ukraine means USA losing Eastern Europe , please look again at ukraine location on map , its the only remaining part for the resurgence of former soviet union .


----------



## BlueWarrior

*Everybody is anti Russian*

*Except Russians who are Pro Russian*​


----------



## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> You're even dumber than you look LOL. By your logic, sites in spain do not count as arab, you idiot



You must be an idiot. Arabs built World UNESCO Heritage Sites in Spain. Thus we can claim them whether they are located in an non-Arab country like Spain or not. Just like Greek people can claim the Greek World UNESCO Heritage Sites in Turkey simply because what is now Turkey was Greek for a very long, long time.

While you as an TURK CANNOT claim MONGOLIAN heritage since Mongolians nor Mongolia is a Turkic country or people. It's extremely simple.

Does your tiny brain understand those simple facts or is it too difficult?

BTW, there are 70 World UNESCO Heritage sites in the Arab world and 90% of them were built by Semites. And dozens of possible World UNESCO Heritage Sites are on the tentative lists.

Nor are even all the World UNESCO Heritage sites made by Arabs outside of the Arab world included in that list. Such as those in Spain, Portugal, Italy etc.


----------



## Hakan

Actually Semetic=Altaic 

Source: Altaic (people) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

Validity of source:
Encyclopædia Britannica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I will be sleeping so don't wait for replies.

What are you trying to get from this whole discussion?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

mahatir said:


> taking ukraine means USA losing Eastern Europe , please look again at ukraine location on map , its the only remaining part for the resurgence of former soviet union .



USA has no business in East Europe, they should get lost as soon as possible.


----------



## mahatir

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> For now, there is no need to invade Poland.
> 
> But Ukraine is the red line for Russia, it cannot join EU, at least for the eastern part.



Invading Poland would mean WW3 , such an incident would never happen , after all there was agreement between west and russia that ukraine is under russia zone of influence .


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Which is not an ethnic group but just an PROPOSED language family. A very controversial one.


Actually there are more pro than contra Altaicists.

Altaic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## al-Hasani

Kaan said:


> Actually Semetic=Altaic
> 
> Source: Altaic (people) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
> 
> Validity of source:
> Encyclopædia Britannica - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I will be sleeping so don't wait for replies.



Which is not an ethnic group but just an PROPOSED language family. A very controversial one.

Altaic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We already discussed this and it has been proven by genetic tests, even admitted by your 3-4 stubborn and extremely nationalistic Turks, that Koreans and Japanese have absolutely no genetic relation to Turks, LOL. Nor any cultural or historical relation.

Anyway nice try. Even if you included them it would still be nothing in terms of World UNESCO Heritage sites or history.

*Besides the proposed Altaic does not equal Semitic. Afro-Asiatic equals the proposed Altaic.

Semitic equals Turkic.

Arab equals Turkish.

Fail once again. You don't even know the basics so why bother discussing with you anyway?*


----------



## IND151

Interesting time ahead.

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## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> You must be an idiot. Arabs built World UNESCO Heritage Sites in Spain. Thus we can claim them whether they are located in an non-Arab country like Spain or not. Just like Greek people can claim the Greek World UNESCO Heritage Sites in Turkey simply because what is now Turkey was Greek for a very long, long time.
> 
> While you as an TURK CANNOT claim MONGOLIAN heritage since Mongolians nor Mongolia is a Turkic country or people. It's extremely simple.
> 
> Does your tiny brain understand those simple facts or is it too difficult?
> 
> BTW, there are 70 World UNESCO Heritage sites in the Arab world and 90% of them were built by Semites. And dozens of possible World UNESCO Heritage Sites are on the tentative lists.
> 
> Nor are even all the World UNESCO Heritage sites made by Arabs outside of the Arab world included in that list. Such as those in Spain, Portugal, Italy etc.



Bla bla bla. I didn't even read your post. Because I know you'll squirm like belly dancer LOL. Anyway, it was fun making fun of you ancient semitic camel and watch you write all those long long long post  lastly, we turks owned you for 5 centuries LOL. I'm gonna go now and have breakfast, so behave yourself


----------



## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> Actually there are more pro than contra Altaicists.
> 
> Altaic languages - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



But at the end of the day it is just a PROPOSED and until now controversial language family which all sources recognize. Nothing to do with genetics. Unless you want to claim that Turks have anything to do with Japanese and Korean people when genetic tests proof this not to be the case?


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> But at the end of the day it is just a PROPOSED and until now controversial language family which all sources recognize. Nothing to do with genetics. Unless you want to claim that Turks have anything to do with Japanese and Korean people when genetic tests proof this not to be the case?


Genetics test to prove cultural similaritys is also controversial, espacially on heavily mixed ethnicities like Turkic.

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## al-Hasani

@telkon

Thanks for admitting that you have no clue about what you are replying to or writing. Maybe that explains why you do not understand that Mongols and Mongolia is NOT a Turkic state hence you cannot claim their 1 single World UNESCO Heritage site that is not a landscape. LOL.

Well, bon appétit. Make some scrambled eggs. It's good.



xenon54 said:


> Genetics test to prove cultural similaritys is also controversial, espacially on heavily mixed races like Turkic.



Do you really believe, contrary to genetic tests, history, the enormous geographical distance, culture etc., that the ordinary Turk is related to Koreans and Japanese across the world? Really?

What do you know about the genetics of Turkish people?


----------



## xenon54 out

al-Hasani said:


> Do you really believe, contrary to genetic tests, history, the enormous geographical distance, culture etc., that the ordinary Turk is related to Koreans and Japanese across the world? Really?


No, im not saying anything, the wiki article just says that Korean and Japanese might be related to other Altaic languages, thats all.

Lets drop the duscussion im tired, im going to sleep.

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## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> @telkon
> 
> Thanks for admitting that you have no clue about what you are replying to or writing. Maybe that explains why you do not understand that Mongols and Mongolia is NOT a Turkic state hence you cannot claim their 1 single World UNESCO Heritage site that is not a landscape. LOL.
> 
> Well, bon appétit. Make some scrambled eggs. It's good.
> 
> 
> 
> Do you really believe, contrary to genetic tests, history, the enormous geographical distance, culture etc., that the ordinary Turk is related to Koreans and Japanese across the world? Really?
> 
> What do you know about the genetics of Turkish people?
> 
> This might interest you and remember that genetic tests do not lie.
> 
> Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The proposed Altaic language family equals the Afro-Asiatic which Semitic languages are a branch of and Indo-European language family. Now millions upon millions of Africans, indigenous Latin Americans etc. speak Indo-European languages such as English, French, Spanish, Portuguese as their native tongue. Does that make them English, French, Spanish or Portuguese people? I hope you understand my point.
> 
> Similarily there are Black Africans in Nigeria who speak languages that belong to the Afro-Asiatic language family where Semitic belongs to and those people have no connection with Arab people of the ME. At least genetically.




Aha, squirm more. I'm confident that you'll make it LOL. And by the way, how are you desert camel herder linked genetically to dilmun and akkadians?


----------



## al-Hasani

xenon54 said:


> No, im not saying anything, the wiki article just says that Korean and Japanese might be related to other Altaic languages, thats all.
> 
> Lets drop the duscussion im tired, im going to sleep.



I have not denied this. In fact I am posting the same article that you post. I never denied Altaic as being a proposed language family where Korean and Japanese is sometimes or often included. What I am against is the bombastic and empty claims of your countryman @Kaan who suddenly has decided to make it into one language family despite their being controversy. I mean that is not a serious discussion.

This might interest you and remember that genetic tests do not lie.

Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The proposed Altaic language family equals the Afro-Asiatic which Semitic languages are a branch of and Indo-European language family. Now millions upon millions of Africans, indigenous Latin Americans etc. speak Indo-European languages such as English, French, Spanish, Portuguese as their native tongue. Does that make them English, French, Spanish or Portuguese people? I hope you understand my point. Let alone Indo-Europeans.

Similarily there are Black Africans in Nigeria who speak languages that belong to the Afro-Asiatic language family where Semitic belongs to and those people have no connection with Arab people of the ME. At least genetically.

Even if we assume that the proposed Altaic family is 100% correct, which their are no proofs of, then what does this say in terms of genetics and culture? Not very much unless you will claim that Turkish culture is similar to Japanese.

Genetics is all that matters. Either you are related or not.

The genetic tests done on Turks show no relation to Japanese or Mongolian people.

That's all I am trying to get across to @Kaan but for some strange reason he has a hard time accepting this. Yet everyone that is a Semite is related genetically, culturally, linguistically etc. since we are all native to the ME and all of our people border each other.



telkon said:


> Aha, squirm more. I'm confident that you'll make it LOL. And by the way, how are you desert camel herder linked genetically to dilmun and akkadians?



Dilmun and Akkadia were two ancient Semitic civilizations that were several thousands of years old (about 4000-5000 years old). Located in what is now Iraq, KSA and Bahrain.

What is it with you and camels? Why do you not talk about the world famous Arabian horse, Arabian Leopard, Arabian Gazelle, Cheetah or Lions that roamed around the Arab world and even in KSA until the early 1900's? What about the Arabian Oryx?
Camels are NOT native to the ME. They come from the Horn of Africa. Somalia and Australia have the largest wild camel populations. Camels are/were used by Turkic people and Mongolians and other people native to the Central Asian deserts and steppes.

Camels were among the most valuable animals before the introduction of planes, cars, trains etc. They were much more worthy than donkeys etc. Only horses had a similar worth. Camels helped built many civilizations and were used for long-distance traveling, in wars and as an animal for survival by many people. They are very useful animals. More useful than most. You could make dairy products out of their milk, clothes out of their wool or eat them when not using them for transporting goods or as a mean of transportation.

You do realize that cars, planes, trains etc. are fairly new Western inventions right? What do you think that your ancestors used before their introduction if not horses or camels? The two most sought after animals used for transportation and the most expensive ones.

Did a camel spit on you or what?


----------



## Aarush

(Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin demanded and won his parliament's approval on Saturday to invade Ukraine, where the new government warned of war, put its troops on high alert and appealed to NATO for help.

Putin's open assertion of the right to send troops to a country of 46 million people on the ramparts of central Europe creates the biggest confrontation between Russia and the West since the Cold War.

Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk, leading a government that took power after Moscow's ally Viktor Yanukovich fled a week ago, said Russian military action "would be the beginning of war and the end of any relations between Ukraine and Russia".

Acting President Oleksander Turchinov ordered troops to be placed on high combat alert. Foreign Minister Andriy Deshchytsya said he had met European and U.S. officials and sent a request to NATO to "examine all possibilities to protect the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine".

Putin's move was a direct rebuff to Western leaders who had repeatedly urged Russia not to intervene, including U.S. President Barack Obama, who just a day before had held a televised address to warn Moscow of "costs" if it acted.

Troops with no insignia on their uniforms but clearly Russian - some in vehicles with Russian number plates - have already seized Crimea, an isolated peninsula in the Black Sea where Moscow has a large military presence in the headquarters of its Black Sea Fleet. Kiev's new authorities have been powerless to stop them.

The Russian forces solidified their control of Crimea and unrest spread to other parts of Ukraine on Saturday. Pro-Russian demonstrators clashed, sometimes violently, with supporters of Ukraine's new authorities and raised the Russian flag over government buildings in several cities.

"This is probably the most dangerous situation in Europe since the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968," said a Western official on condition of anonymity. "Realistically, we have to assume the Crimea is in Russian hands. The challenge now is to deter Russia from taking over the Russian-speaking east of Ukraine."

Putin asked parliament to approve force "in connection with the extraordinary situation in Ukraine, the threat to the lives of citizens of the Russian Federation, our compatriots" and to protect the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.

The upper house swiftly delivered a unanimous "yes" vote, shown live on television.

Western capitals scrambled for a response, but it was limited to words. A U.S. official said Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel had spoken to his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu. The official said there had been no change in U.S. military posture.

EU foreign affairs chief Catherine Ashton urged Moscow not to send troops. Swedish Foreign Minister Carl Bildt said this would be "clearly against international law". Czech President Milos Zeman likened the crisis to the 1968 invasion of Czechoslovakia.

"Urgent need for de-escalation in Crimea," tweeted NATO Secretary-General Anders Fogh Rasmussen. "NATO allies continue to coordinate closely."

Putin said his request for authorization to use force in Ukraine would last "until the normalization of the socio-political situation in that country". His justification - the need to protect Russian citizens - was the same as he used to launch a 2008 invasion of Georgia, where Russian forces seized two breakaway regions and recognized them as independent.

FLAGS TORN DOWN

So far there has been no sign of Russian military action in Ukraine outside Crimea, the only part of the country with a Russian ethnic majority, which has often voiced separatist aims.

A potentially bigger risk would be conflict spreading to the rest of Ukraine, where the sides could not be easily kept apart.

Putin ready to invade Ukraine; Kiev warns of war| Reuters


----------



## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> I have not denied this. In fact I am posting the same article that you post. I never denied Altaic as being a proposed language family where Korean and Japanese is sometimes or often included. What I am against is the bombastic and empty claims of your countryman @Kaan who suddenly has decided to make it into one language family despite their being controversy. I mean that is not a serious discussion.
> 
> This might interest you and remember that genetic tests do not lie.
> 
> Turkish people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The proposed Altaic language family equals the Afro-Asiatic which Semitic languages are a branch of and Indo-European language family. Now millions upon millions of Africans, indigenous Latin Americans etc. speak Indo-European languages such as English, French, Spanish, Portuguese as their native tongue. Does that make them English, French, Spanish or Portuguese people? I hope you understand my point. Let alone Indo-Europeans.
> 
> Similarily there are Black Africans in Nigeria who speak languages that belong to the Afro-Asiatic language family where Semitic belongs to and those people have no connection with Arab people of the ME. At least genetically.
> 
> Even if we assume that the proposed Altaic family is 100% correct, which their are no proofs of, then what does this say in terms of genetics and culture? Not very much unless you will claim that Turkish culture is similar to Japanese.
> 
> Genetics is all that matters. Either you are related or not.
> 
> The genetic tests done on Turks show no relation to Japanese or Mongolian people.
> 
> That's all I am trying to get across to @Kaan but for some strange reason he has a hard time accepting this. Yet everyone that is a Semite is related genetically, culturally, linguistically etc. since we are all native to the ME and all of our people border each other.
> 
> 
> 
> Dilmun and Akkadia were two ancient Semitic civilizations that were several thousands of years old (about 4000-5000 years old). Located in what is now Iraq, KSA and Bahrain.
> 
> What is it with you and camels? Why do you not talk about the world famous Arabian horse, Arabian Leopard, Arabian Gazelle, Cheetah or Lions that roamed around the Arab world and even in KSA until the early 1900's? What about the Arabian Oryx?
> Camels are NOT native to the ME. They come from the Horn of Africa. Somalia and Australia have the largest wild camel populations. Camels are/were used by Turkic people and Mongolians and other people native to the Central Asian deserts and steppes.
> 
> Camels were among the most valuable animals before the introduction of planes, cars, trains etc. They were much more worthy than donkeys etc. Only horses had a similar worth. Camels helped built many civilizations and were used for long-distances traveling, in wars, as a animal for survival by many people.
> Did a camle spit on you or what?



Don't belly dance please. I know about dilmun and akkadians more than you. I studied assyriology remember? And dilmun is not semitic by the way. Don't post wiki links LOL. Answer the question. What is your genetic link with dilmun and akkadians?


----------



## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> Don't belly dance please. I know about dilmun and akkadians more than you. I studied assyriology remember? And dilmun is not semitic by the way. Don't post wiki links LOL. Answer the question. What is your genetic link with dilmun and akkadians?



You are an clown.

Of course they were since at that time only Semitic civilizations exited on the Arabian Peninsula. Because people inhabiting those regions are their descendants and they cluster with each other and belong to the same haplogroups. I know much more about my regions history and people that you do let alone genetics. It's very easy. Besides both regions are bordering each other.

Modern day Turks of which most are mostly indigenous and ironically belonging to many of the haplogroups that Arabs do and other NATIVE ME people, have obviously NO genetic relation to Koreans and Japanese.

Haplogroup J-P209 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Every geneticists would laugh in your face if you told him or her so but you have no idea about genetics so that's a pointless debate.


----------



## victor07

*Ukrainian flagship fregate Getman Sagaidachny returning from mission in Aden Gulf refused to fulfil orders from new Ukrainian defence minister and raised Russian naval flag!*

Украинский фрегат «Гетман Сагайдачный» перешёл на сторону России | RT на русском

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## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> You are an clown.
> 
> Of course they were since at that time only Semitic civilizations exited on the Arabian Peninsula. Because people inhabiting those regions are their descendants and they cluster with each other and belong to the same haplogroups. I know much more about my regions history and people that you do let alone genetics. It's very easy. Besides both regions are bordering each other.
> 
> Modern day Turks of which most are mostly indigenous and ironically belonging to many of the haplogroups that Arabs do and other NATIVE ME people, have obviously NO genetic relation to Koreans and Japanese.
> 
> Haplogroup J-P209 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Every geneticists would laugh in your face if you told him or her so but you have no idea about genetics so that's a pointless debate.



Yada yada bla bla. Aren't you tired of that j-p209 trick LOL. If you try a little harder you'll become the belly dancer of the year  show me something that tells akkadians (I'm not including dilmun, for its not semitic) have this and this y haplogroup or that mtDNA that you share with them. And don't post wiki links, I don't read them. Because as I told you before, they're the losers way of looking knowledgeable without proper education LOL


----------



## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> Yada yada bla bla. Aren't you tired of that j-p209 trick LOL. If you try a little harder you'll become the belly dancer of the year  show me something that tells akkadians (I'm not including dilmun, for its not semitic) have this and this y haplogroup or that mtDNA that you share with them. And don't post wiki links, I don't read them. Because as I told you before, they're the losers way of looking knowledgeable without proper education LOL



Idiot. Those people are long gone. Just like the ancient Romans, Sumerians etc. But their descendants which are us Arabs and Semitic people are still alive. We cluster with each other and are thus related. GENETIC TESTS confirm this. Do you understand these simple facts donkey? Contrary to you Turkic people we are actually related genetically and not only linguistically like you are.

Yes, the Dilmun were a Semitic speaking civilization. Just like the Akkadians.


----------



## telkon

Edit: And I'm really hungry so I'm leaving. Besides, we sh.t on this thread :/



al-Hasani said:


> Idiot. Those people are long gone. Just like the Romans. But their descendants which are us Arabs and Semitic people are still alive. We cluster with each other and are thus related. GENETIC TESTS confirm this. Do you understand these simple facts donkey? Contrary to you Turkic people we are actually related genetically and not only linguistically like you are.
> 
> Yes, the Dilmun were a Semitic speaking civilization. Just like the Akkadians.



Which genetic tests camel?


----------



## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> Edit: And I'm really hungry so I'm leaving. Besides, we sh.t on this thread :/
> 
> 
> 
> Which genetic tests camel?



The ones I just posted to you donkey. More precisely the haplogroup I posted to you. Do you even know what a haplgroup is? But obviously you have no clue about genetics at all. Hence you should not engage in debates that are beyond your comprehension.

Just stick to Mongols donkey.


----------



## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> The ones I just posted to you donkey. More precisely the haplogroup I posted to you. Do you even know what a haplgroup is? But obviously you have no clue about genetics at all. Hence you should not engage in debates that are beyond your comprehension.



Are you angry camel? You write very short posts


----------



## al-Hasani

telkon said:


> Are you angry camel? You write very short posts



No, the camel just spat in the donkey's mouth and made him quite.


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## telkon

al-Hasani said:


> No, the camel just spat in the donkey's mouth and made him quite.



I think its the other way around LOL. I'd expect from you at least 4 wiki links, 2 thousand word essay and a little belly dancing

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## faithfulguy

Ukraine had the hottest looking modern PM in Yulia Volodymyrivna






She is already 53 years old. The hottest 53 year old lady I had ever seen. And the youngest looking 53 year old.


----------



## Star Wars

MINA Breaking News - Ukraine's Navy refuses orders from Kiev, defects to Russia

Looks like the Ukrainian military is not so keen on fighting

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## ChineseTiger1986

faithfulguy said:


> Ukraine had the hottest looking modern PM in Yulia Volodymyrivna
> View attachment 19228
> 
> 
> She is already 53 years old. The hottest 53 year old lady I had ever seen. And the youngest looking 53 year old.



She is an Armenian Jew, the real Slavic Ukrainian girls are way hotter than her.

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## faithfulguy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> She is an Armenian Jew, the real Slavic Ukrainian girls are way hotter than her.



I don't think she is Jewish. She is mainly Latvian with some Ukrainian. She is very hot for a politician. Very hot for an 53 year old lady. She look only 35 years old even though she is over 50.


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## ChineseTiger1986

faithfulguy said:


> I don't think she is Jewish. She is mainly Latvian with some Ukrainian. She is very hot for a politician. Very hot for an 53 year old lady. She look only 35 years old even though she is over 50.



The natural color of her hair is dark brown, and she looks pretty similar to the people from the Caucasus region.

And her Jewish ancestry was also well documented.

Family of Yulia Tymoshenko - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## vostok

faithfulguy said:


> Ukraine had the hottest looking modern PM in Yulia Volodymyrivna
> View attachment 19228
> 
> 
> She is already 53 years old. The hottest 53 year old lady I had ever seen. And the youngest looking 53 year old.


Now she looks like this

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## Oldman1

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> For now, there is no need to invade Poland.
> 
> But Ukraine is the red line for Russia, it cannot join EU, at least for the eastern part.



For now. Could be next time Putin decides he wants the Stans back to reclaim territory. Or invade Poland or other Eastern European countries because he believes Russian citizens were being threaten. But its a theory as I said. Maybe thats the reason Poland was invaded in WW2. Russian citizens were being threatened. And in collaboration with Hitler, he helped protect the Russian citizens.


----------



## amidamaru

Oldman1 said:


> For now. Could be next time Putin decides he wants the Stans back to reclaim territory. Or invade Poland or other Eastern European countries because he believes Russian citizens were being threaten. But its a theory as I said. Maybe thats the reason Poland was invaded in WW2. Russian citizens were being threatened. And in collaboration with Hitler, he helped protect the Russian citizens.




i think you will find in WW2 hitler did this... it is how he got control of part of austria, because of german citizens.. and it was his claim that poland killed german citizens etc which is supposedly one of the reasons hitler invaded poland

russia and germany made a non aggression pact, if there was no non aggression pact and germany just took over poland, likely russia would of gone to war with germany from the start.... but since hitler and stalin agreed to take half of poland each, they were both happy.. for the time being..

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## vostok

Oldman1 said:


> For now. Could be next time Putin decides he wants the Stans back to reclaim territory. Or invade Poland or other Eastern European countries because he believes Russian citizens were being threaten. But its a theory as I said. Maybe thats the reason Poland was invaded in WW2. Russian citizens were being threatened. And in collaboration with Hitler, he helped protect the Russian citizens.


I think if you've experienced the disintegration of the United States, you would have a different attitude toward the gradual reunification of your country.

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## Oldman1

vostok said:


> I think if you've experienced the disintegration of the United States, you would have a different attitude toward the gradual reunification of your country.



So in other words you are going to invade every country or territory that broke away from the Soviet Union. Perhaps you want Alaska back?


----------



## EagleEyes

Stay on topic or get thread banned.

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## vostok

Oldman1 said:


> So in other words you are going to invade every country or territory that broke away from the Soviet Union. Perhaps you want Alaska back?


I think that you just do not understand what Ukraine means for Russia - it's like the first thirteen states for America . Here in Kiev begins the history Russia . Kiev in the tenth century was called the "Mother of Russian cities ." It's like Sussex or Wessex for England.
In the south and east of the country would be no resistance . People will meet Russian troops with flowers and Russian flags. Because we never never stopped to consider ourselvez part of Russia . We always thought that sooner or later the "independence" of Ukraine will be liquidated . Because independent Ukraine from Russia - this is like New England, independent from the United States. This is crazy.

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## Nike

WebMaster said:


> Stay on topic or get thread banned.



Thanks mod, we need you here

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## Lux de Veritas

vostok said:


> I think that you just do not understand what Ukraine means for Russia - it's like the first thirteen states for America . Here in Kiev begins the history Russia . Kiev in the tenth century was called the "Mother of Russian cities ." It's like Sussex or Wessex for England.
> In the south and east of the country would be no resistance . People will meet Russian troops with flowers and Russian flags. Because we never never stopped to consider ourselvez part of Russia . We always thought that sooner or later the "independence" of Ukraine will be liquidated . Because independent Ukraine from Russia - this is like New England, independent from the United States. This is crazy.



That is right. 

Also there is barely thing as literal Ukrainian as Ukrainian masters wrote in Russian. I think Stalin has cause the development.


The holodomor. No choice, Russian will get blame even though Georgian is primarily responsible.
Annexation of East Poland. That is how Ukraine end up with so many "catholic" and western leaning people

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## MooshMoosh

How many Russian loyalist are there in Ukrainian army?

Let's not forget Ukraine have the capability to produce ICMB and all the stock leftovers back during Soviet era so they could hurt Russia. 

Or else, hopefully Ukrainian nationalist, neo nazis, anti-Russian, Tatars and Muslims resistance can lift up resistance against the Russian occupation.


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## vostok

MooshMoosh said:


> How many Russian loyalist are there in Ukrainian army?
> 
> Let's not forget Ukraine have the capability to produce ICMB and all the stock leftovers back during Soviet era so they could hurt Russia.
> 
> Or else, hopefully Ukrainian nationalist, neo nazis, anti-Russian, Tatars and Muslims resistance can lift up resistance against the Russian occupation.


Do not worry, the entire industry and science is on the east of the country, which is loyal to Russia. And Western part - semi-literate peasants, brain-washed by russophobe propoganda. They can kill unarmed people, but against real army they like mouse against bear.

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## Star Wars

Ukrainian military resigning en masse in Crimea - reports

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## ExtraOdinary

_Ukranian Military does'nt want to put up a fight. Seems like this will be a peaceful reunion of the Crimean Peninsula into Mother Russia._

Ukrainian Troops in Crimea Side with Pro-Russia Forces | Defense | RIA Novosti

SIMFEROPOL, March 2 (RIA Novosti) – Ukrainian servicemen stationed in Crimea are leaving en masse their military units and handing over weaponry and arsenals to local pro-Russia authorities and militia, a RIA Novosti correspondent reported Sunday.

Crimea, an autonomous republic within Ukraine, is now at the center of the ongoing crisis in the country as pro-Russia groups move to distance themselves from a reformed national parliament that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a week ago.

The current development comes shortly after Russia’s upper house of parliament unanimously approved a request from President Vladimir Putin on Saturday to deploy military forces in Ukraine’s mainly ethnic Russian-populated region of Crimea.

Putin issued his request in response to what he said was a threat to the lives of Russian citizens and military forces located in naval bases in Crimea.

Putin, who is the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces, has not yet ordered the deployment of a “limited military contingent” in Ukraine, but said in telephone conversations with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and US President Barack Obama early on Sunday that Moscow reserved the right to protect its own interests and those of Russian speakers in the event of violence breaking out in eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

There is already a substantial Russian military presence in southern Ukraine, courtesy of the leased Black Sea Fleet naval base in the Crimean Peninsula.

Large movements of Russian troops have been reported around the peninsula, which is in defiance of express instructions from Ukrainian authorities this week for Russian soldiers to remain confined to their quarters.

Meanwhile, thousands of pro-Moscow protesters staged a number of rallies in eastern Ukraine on Saturday backing the anti-Kiev stance of the Crimean population and calling for Russia to defend them as well.

New authorities in Kiev have already responded to Russia’s plans by putting the army on high alert and calling up all military reserves.

Kiev has also appealed to NATO on Saturday" with a request to consider all options to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine.”

The North Atlantic Council, NATO’s main governing body, is scheduled to hold an extraordinary meeting on Sunday to discuss events in Ukraine, the military bloc’s secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said in his Twitter blog.

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## Tunisian Marine Corps

Ukraine: the government ordered the mobilization of reserve troops 
The Ukrainian government has ordered, Sunday, March 2, 2014, the mobilization of its reserve troops. This follows the mobilization of the Red Army on the western borders of Russia
Ukraine : le gouvernement ordonne la mobilisation des troupes de réserve- Shems FM

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## Star Wars

Looks like Putin wants USSR back...

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## Chinese-Dragon

ExtraOdinary said:


> _Ukranian Military does'nt want to put up a fight. Seems like this will be a peaceful reunion of the Crimean Peninsula into Mother Russia._
> 
> Ukrainian Troops in Crimea Side with Pro-Russia Forces | Defense | RIA Novosti



Good news for all sides then. 

Since picking a fight with Russia is obviously suicidal.

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## UKBengali

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Good news for all sides then.
> Since picking a fight with Russia is obviously suicidal.




Also goes to show that there is no such country as Ukraine then.


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## flamer84

mahatir said:


> new reality you will have to balance between eu and russia , the americans will sell you for a penny be sure on that




IMHO we've been balancing/appeasing Russia for 200 years now and nothing good came out of it,only death,land stolen,deportations,suffering overall.

So,**** balancing,**** appeasement,let's get it over it if that's the case,let them exterminate us,thast's clearly what they want.As some verses our National Hymn say :

"Better to die in battle with full glory

Than to be slaves again in our ancient land"

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## SiCiSi

ZYXW said:


> Well with the democrats in power i understand the US gives off this image, but I assure you, if needed the US will act.



Nah, doesnt matter, the Americans and its allies are cowards. 

Russia will advance, Iran will go nuclear and you cant do anything about it.

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## BoQ77

Ukraine will fall into NATO affect


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## Tunisian Marine Corps

what Russia did is a crime is violation of the sanctity of a sovereign state
Russians want Ukraine be withe them or they will destroy it and divide it into 2 nations and don't care about Ukrainian people

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## vostok

Tunisian Marine Corps said:


> what Russia did is a crime is violation of the sanctity of a sovereign state
> Russians want Ukraine be withe them or they will destroy it and divide it into 2 nations and don't care about Ukrainian people


What can you know about it? The border between Russia and Ukraine - is like border between East and West Germany. It should not be in principle.

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## Hashshāshīn

Tunisian Marine Corps said:


> what Russia did is a crime is violation of the sanctity of a sovereign state


But this was nothing?

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## Tunisian Marine Corps

Hashshāshīn said:


> But this was nothing?


don't mean USA do crimes the rest of the world should do crimes


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## SiCiSi

Hashshāshīn said:


> But this was nothing?



The USA is a terrorist state. It funds and arms liver eating savages in Syria and beyond. Notice how the country from which most of the 9/11 hijackers hailed is not red.

What pathetic excuse for a human beings.

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## Tunisian Marine Corps

SiCiSi said:


> The USA is a terrorist state. It funds and arms liver eating savages in Syria and beyond. Notice how the country from which most of the 9/11 hijackers hailed is not red.
> 
> What pathetic excuse for a human beings.


what country you referring to because Tunisia and GCC and most of Africa are not in red

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## untitled

Tunisian Marine Corps said:


> what country you referring to because Tunisia and GCC and most of Africa are not in red



He means Saudi Arabia


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## anonymus

Star Wars said:


> Looks like Putin wants USSR back...




Probably only Slavic countries. Incorporating stans would be a demographic suicide.



flamer84 said:


> IMHO we've been balancing/appeasing Russia for 200 years now and nothing good came out of it,only death,land stolen,deportations,suffering overall.
> 
> So,**** balancing,**** appeasement,let's get it over it if that's the case,let them exterminate us,thast's clearly what they want.As some verses our National Hymn say :
> 
> "Better to die in battle with full glory
> 
> Than to be slaves again in our ancient land"




You are part of NATO.

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## flamer84

anonymus said:


> You are part of NATO.



I know,i just got a litlle emotional.

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## Aegis DDG

Great, another war in Europe again.

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## Tunisian Marine Corps

Massive demonstration against the war and Putin in Zaporizhia southern Ukraine





Ukrainian soldiers gather in front of the only entrance in their base that is under siege by Russian commando

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## BronzePlaque

al-Hasani said:


> Until today where your 46 year old compatriot was doing/started what I described in the beginning of this post.



How in the world do you know his age?? I didnt even know that lol

@T-123456 are you really 46?


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## flamer84

Tunisian Marine Corps said:


> Massive demonstration against the war and Putin in Zaporizhia southern Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian soldiers gather in front of the only entrance in their base that is under siege by Russian commando




Look at the ukrainian soldiers in the picture helmets,uniforms and gear and i think that this picture practically explains why they don't have a chance.

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## Meengla

al-Hasani said:


> The most drastic that can happen is a repeat of the the events we saw in Georgia during the Olympics in 2008 and after that possibly a split of Ukraine into a "proper ethnic Ukrainian Ukraine" and a* Russian/Russified/Russian speaking Ukraine. The later might probably join Russia formally or form a union or serve as a client state just as much as Belarus does*.
> 
> But it is interesting indeed and I have some reading to do because it seems that a lot happened today.
> 
> Basically it all comes down to the Russians fearing Western influence next to their borders. They want Ukraine to be a vassal state that rely on them economically, politically etc. so Gazprom and others can continue to sell gas to them. .



Breakup of Ukraine along ethnic lines--and not just Crimea--is the only realistic, long term solution.

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## 500

Star Wars said:


> MINA Breaking News - Ukraine's Navy refuses orders from Kiev, defects to Russia
> 
> Looks like the Ukrainian military is not so keen on fighting





Star Wars said:


> Ukrainian military resigning en masse in Crimea - reports



These reports are false:

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## Hakan

500 said:


> These reports are false:


Ukraine mobilizes after Putin's 'declaration of war'| Reuters

The Ukrainian military is calling up reserves and the soldiers say that it is their duty to fight.

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## victor07

Tunisian Marine Corps said:


> Ukraine: the government ordered the mobilization of reserve troops
> The Ukrainian government has ordered, Sunday, March 2, 2014, the mobilization of its reserve troops. This follows the mobilization of the Red Army on the western borders of Russia
> Ukraine : le gouvernement ordonne la mobilisation des troupes de réserve- Shems FM



I am in reserve of Russian Armed Forces and there is no mobilization in Russia. May be current Kiev authorities under mobilization imply giving arms to that bunch of nazi bandits, rapists and looters which we all have seen in Kiev? Then the people in Ukraine in big danger. No wonder trains from Ukraine to Russia are crowded.

Also another video of helicopters in Crimea.

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## Star Wars

E.U can bark all it wants, all Russia has to do is close the gas pipe lines and wait for a few days

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## Ayush

go russia.

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## waz

flamer84 said:


> Look at the ukrainian soldiers in the picture helmets,uniforms and gear and i think that this picture practically explains why they don't have a chance.



They look like a "rent an army" , you would pick up in the countryside and arm with old equipment.

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## victor07

Ukrainian and Russian military authorities agreed on weakening the the blockade of Ukrainian military units in Crimea.
Currently Ukrainian air defence troops are taken in Sevastopol and Yevpatoria. Border guards and marine troops and naval headquarters are blocked. However, the blockade is removing.

Украина и Россия договорились об ослаблении блокировки украинских военных частей в Севастополе
http://gazeta.ua/ru/articles/np/_ro...j-divizion-vsu-v-sevastopole-istochnik/545123

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## al-Hasani

BronzePlaque said:


> How in the world do you know his age?? I didnt even know that lol
> 
> @T-123456 are you really 46?



His profile page says that.



> Born,09-05-1967 in Gulsehir Turkey.
> live in Germany Belgium Holland
> Studied economie 4 years,psychology 2 years
> world citizen
> travelled to allmost 40 countries.
> I speak,english,german,dutch,french,spanish and turkish.



Frightening if true.

Anyway let's get back to topic. Not the slightest interested in a another stupid discussion.



Tunisian Marine Corps said:


> Massive demonstration against the war and Putin in Zaporizhia southern Ukraine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukrainian soldiers gather in front of the only entrance in their base that is under siege by Russian commando



Yes, that's only going to end bad for Ukraine.



Meengla said:


> Breakup of Ukraine along ethnic lines--and not just Crimea--is the only realistic, long term solution.



Indeed. A bit like the Balkans. That way everybody will be happy and the actual people would have made the choices of their will.


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## Falcon29

Start a nuclear war! I didn't get the wife I wanted in this life! 

Bring us all down! World War Three is going to be the greatest achievement of human civilization of all time!

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## Hakan

NATO says Russia risks destabilizing Europe but no action | Europe | Worldbulletin News


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## Falcon29

Nothing goes my way in this life and I'm tired of it! It's time for equal treatment we're all going down! God bless!

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## Star Wars

Ukrainian Refugees entering Russia .. more than 6,50,000 of them

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## Chinese-Dragon

Hazzy997 said:


> Nothing goes my way in this life and I'm tired of it! It's time for equal treatment we're all going down! God bless!



Are you a nihilist buddy?

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## Falcon29

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Are you a nihilist buddy?

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## Pakistanisage

The Geo-Political Importance of Ukraine is tremendous. With the Ukrainian Issue, Russia is pitted against Europe, US and the NATO forces which means that US/Nato is no longer the sole Superpower calling the shots. Russia is back to oppose them to protect its vital interest and this is good for the World. The unipolar world had become a very dangerous place for the Middle East and the South Asian countries.

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## F117

Hazzy997 said:


> Start a nuclear war! I didn't get the wife I wanted in this life!
> 
> Bring us all down! World War Three is going to be the greatest achievement of human civilization of all time!


Not yet! We haven't finished building the bomb. Once it's complete, we will transfer it to Hamas.

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## Star Wars

Russia already has Crimea , the only next thing Russia is eying is eastern Ukraine ... Most probably Eastern Ukraine will be annexed and the western part will be left alone to fend for themselves...

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## Irfan Baloch

500 said:


> Shortest joke ever: the Ukrainian army.


is it that bad? they must be far better than many Middle Eastern countries with an annual spend of 2.3 B dollars.


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## Reashot Xigwin

Irfan Baloch said:


> is it that bad? they must be far better than many Middle Eastern countries with an annual spend of 2.3 B dollars.



Ya haven't heard of the mass desertion in the Ukrainian side?


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## Beidou2020

Russia proves if you have a massive nuclear arsenal with nuclear triads along with very good air defences, you are pretty much untouchable in this world. Excellent submarines are crucial.

Hope the Chinese leadership takes note. No point building useless aircraft carriers that take nearly a decade to enter service.

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## Pakistanisage

Star Wars said:


> Russia already has Crimea , the only next thing Russia is eying is eastern Ukraine ... Most probably Eastern Ukraine will be annexed and the western part will be left alone to fend for themselves...





Historically speaking, The Eastern Ukraine was always part of Russia which explains why Eastern Ukraine is predominantly inhabited by Ethnic Russians.


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## Star Wars

Irfan Baloch said:


> is it that bad? they must be far better than many Middle Eastern countries with an annual spend of 2.3 B dollars.



The real problem with the Ukrainian Army is its divided Loyalties and Desertions, and i don't think many of them will go to war over the questionable new govt. in Kiev and when it comes to an actual Russian Invasion... All you will see is their army in complete Disarray

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## Beidou2020

Pakistanisage said:


> The Geo-Political Importance of Ukraine is tremendous. With the Ukrainian Issue, Russia is pitted against Europe, US and the NATO forces which means that US/Nato is no longer the sole Superpower calling the shots. Russia is back to oppose them to protect its vital interest and this is good for the World. The unipolar world had become a very dangerous place for the Middle East and the South Asian countries.



Russia providing a distraction will give China more breathing space against the US. It's impossible to concentrate on 2 massive countries at the same time. Before this, all American attention was on containing China but now Russia has earned us more time to grow even stronger to close the economic, technological and military gap with the US.

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## United

“A truck with troops of the Russian Federation, armed with rifles, helmets and bullet-proof vests arrived at our checkpoint and suggested we give up our weapons and accept the protection of the armed forces of the Russian Federation,” he said.

“I replied that, as I am a member of the armed forces of Ukraine, under orders of the Ukrainian navy, there could be no discussion of disarmament. In case of any attempt to enter the military base, we will use all means, up to lethal force.

*“We are military people, who have given our oath to the people of Ukraine and will carry out our duty until the end.”*

Ukrainian marines were barricaded into a base in Feodosia, a Crimean port. Russia appealed for them to back the “legitimate”—pro-Russia—regional leadership.

Their commander, Dmytro Delyatytskiy, told Ukraine’s Channel 5 by telephone Russian troops had demanded they give up their weapons by 10 am and they refused.

*“We have orders,” he said. “We are preparing our defenses.”*


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## Irfan Baloch

Reashot Xigwin said:


> Ya haven't heard of the mass desertion in the Ukrainian side?


the western channels I have been flipping through have been bleeding their hearts over Russian forces in unmarked uniforms only and how many hearts they have broken in the west by doing so

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## United

Beidou2020 said:


> Russia providing a distraction will give China more breathing space against the US. It's impossible to concentrate on 2 massive countries at the same time. Before this, all American attention was on containing China but now Russia has earned us more time to grow even stronger to close the economic, technological and military gap with the US.


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## Beidou2020

United said:


>



KOREAN WAR!

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## Desert Fox

Hashshāshīn said:


> I know, I actually support Russia. Russia needs to take control of their equipment in Crimea. The new neo-Nazi regime should not have access to them. I read some of the chants the done: "**** niggers, Jews and Russians" and calling for a new holocaust etc.


Russia itself has the largest neo-Nazi membership of any country in the entire world. Russian neo-Nazis are known for their hatred for Muslims from the Caucasus and Central Asia as well as other non-European/Slavic races.

I support Russia on this matter concerning The Ukraine. I don't see why some Ukrainians would want beef with Russia considering that both nations are predominantly Slavic.

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## GorkhaPride

Ukraines military has some Soviet era weapons that could come in handy but then ageing they are up against the former Soviet Union.

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## 500

Star Wars said:


> Ukrainian Refugees entering Russia .. more than 6,50,000 of them


More BS propaganda.



Beidou2020 said:


> Russia proves if you have a massive nuclear arsenal with nuclear triads along with very good air defences, you are pretty much untouchable in this world. Excellent submarines are crucial.


Veto in US Sec Council + massive oil and gas reserves.



> Hope the Chinese leadership takes note. No point building useless aircraft carriers that take nearly a decade to enter service.


Aircraft carrier is needed to dominate the oceans. China builds everything in much bigger quantities. Here ships which entered service in 2000-2014:

----------------- China ---- Russia
AC --------------- 1 ---------- 0
LHD ------------- 8 ---------- 0
Destroyers ---- 14 -------- 0
Frigates -------- 24 -------- 0 
SSN ------------- 4 ---------- 2
SSBN ----------- 5 ---------- 2
Diesel Sub ---- 34 -------- 1



F117 said:


> Not yet! We haven't finished building the bomb. Once it's complete, we will transfer it to Hamas.


And Hamas will transfer to Syrian rebels.

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## boomslang

Desert Fox said:


> Russia itself has the largest neo-Nazi membership of any country in the entire world. Russian neo-Nazis are known for their hatred for Muslims from the Caucasus and Central Asia as well as other non-European/Slavic races.
> 
> I support Russia on this matter concerning The Ukraine. I don't see why some Ukrainians would want beef with Russia considering that both nations are predominantly Slavic.




So you're cool with the nazis' and muslim haters ?

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## Star Wars

500 said:


> More BS propaganda.



Right every news which does not suit your likes is BS propaganda

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## jha

Western powers are prepared 'to go to the hilt' to isolate Russia for its military incursion into Ukraine : John Kerry 

Things just got really interesting folks.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Beidou2020 said:


> Russia proves if you have a massive nuclear arsenal with nuclear triads along with very good air defences, you are pretty much untouchable in this world. Excellent submarines are crucial.
> 
> Hope the Chinese leadership takes note. No point building useless aircraft carriers that take nearly a decade to enter service.



I agree with you 100%.

Russia has freed itself from the American global hegemony, by having enough nukes to obliterate America many many times over.

We need to vastly increase the size of our nuclear arsenal (in secret), as well as our nuclear submarine fleet. DF-41 are great, but we need to move towards HGV technology as soon as possible, since we've already successfully tested the hypersonic glide vehicle technology.

Once we have thousands of HGV with nuclear warheads on them, we will be as untouchable as Russia and America are now.

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## Star Wars

BBC News - New head of Ukraine's navy 'defects' in Crimea

Cant get any Worse , did the previous one defect too ? 



jha said:


> Western powers are prepared 'to go to the hilt' to isolate Russia for its military incursion into Ukraine : John Kerry
> 
> Things just got really interesting folks.



Russia will most probably be kicked of the G8 or max sanctions... they wont get too far

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## 500

Star Wars said:


> Right every news which does not suit your likes is BS propaganda


I am absolutely neutral here. Your so called news is BS propaganda.


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## zootinali

Star Wars said:


> Russia will most probably be kicked of the G8 or* max sanctions.*.. they wont get too far



So no more oil and gas to western europe , that would be counterproductive imho

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## Star Wars

U.S. foreign policy comes home to roost with Russia’s action in Ukraine - The Washington Post - Linkis.com

U.S. foreign policy comes home to roost with Russia’s action in Ukraine

By David J. Kramer, Sunday, March 2, 6:01 AM

David J. Kramer is president of Freedom House and a former deputy assistant secretary of state for Russia and Ukraine in the George W. Bush administration.

President Obama faces the gravest challenge of his presidency in figuring out how to respond to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. *How he responds will define his two terms in office*, *as well as determine the future of Ukraine, Russia and U.S. standing in the world*. After all, if the authoritarian tyrant Vladimir Putin is allowed to get away with his unprovoked attack against his neighbor, *a blatant violation of that country’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, then U.S. credibility, already damaged by Obama’s poor handling of Syria, will be down to zero*. *Allies won’t believe in us, enemies won’t fear us and the world will be a much more dangerous place*. The White House statement issued late Saturday afternoon expressing “deep concern over Russia’s clear violation of Ukrainian sovereignty” was woefully inadequate.

There are things Obama needs to do immediately, some in collaboration with our European and NATO allies, others on our own. They include:


●Imposing sanctions against Russian state-owned banks and financial institutions;

●Widening application of the 2012 Sergei Magnitsky Rule of Law Accountability Act against an array of Kremlin officials, including Putin;

●Terminating all negotiations with Russia on a possible trade agreement or promoting business;

●Calling an emergency NATO meeting to reassure NATO allies that border Ukraine and initiate mobilization of forces to be ready for any developments (Article 4 of the NATO Treaty, invoked by Latvia and Lithuania, calls for consultations about security concerns);

●Sending U.S. military ships to the Black Sea for any contingencies;

●Pushing for a U.N. Security Council resolution condemning Russia’s aggression against its neighbor, even though Russia will obviously veto it; and

●Joining other Group of Eight members in expelling Russia and announcing the cancellation of Obama’s plans to visit Sochi, where Putin was to host this year’s G-8 meeting in June.

There may well be other things Obama should do: Some have called for deploying U.S. forces to western Ukraine and the capital, Kiev; others have said we should immediately offer NATO membership to Ukraine. The United States should aim for realistic responses, ones that will not lead to divisions within NATO. But Obama should also not telegraph to Putin what U.S. limits are in responding to Russia’s aggression, as he and Secretary of State John F. Kerry did in fecklessly trying to make the case for a “pinprick” military strike against Syria’s Bassar al-Assad for the use of chemical weapons. Let Putin wonder how far the United States and NATO might go in responding to his military attack.

Ukraine, a country of 46 million people, straddles NATO and the European Union on one side and Russia on the other. It is key to realizing a long-held U.S. vision of a Europe whole, free and at peace. *In 1994, the United States, Ukraine, Russia and Britain signed the Budapest Memorandum as part of the deal for Ukraine to relinquish its nuclear weapons to Russia. Under that agreement, signatories are, among other things, to respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty within its borders; protect Ukraine from aggression; and avoid economic pressure on Ukraine.* Clearly, Russia has violated that understanding. The United States and Britain have an obligation to respond, and hopefully other NATO allies will too.

Like his overall approach to foreign policy, Obama has been much too removed from the deteriorating situation in Ukraine the past few months and spoke out for the first time only 10 days ago, after Ukrainian authorities used gruesome force against protesters in Kiev. Obama warned Ukrainian officials not to “step over the line,” a phrase that lost meaning when he warned Assad not to cross a “red line” at use of chemical weapons — and then did nothing to follow through.

*For years, Putin has shown zero respect for his U.S. counterpart and utter disdain for the West in general, and the United States in particular.* Obama’s reset policy is partly to blame for what is unfolding in Ukraine, after giving Putin a pass on his human rights abuses, aggressive policies toward his neighbors and support for murderous regimes like the one in Syria. Putin never saw from the United States any deterrent or consequences for his outrageous behavior, such as trade sanctions against Russia’s neighbors in violation of its World Trade Organization commitments or the worst crackdown in human rights in Russia since the breakup of the Soviet Union.

All too often, *Obama and his team looked the other way. That neglect is coming home to roost in the worst way possible: a Russian invasion of Ukraine*. At least we can stop listening to those in the Obama administration and in the analyst community who called for Russia to have a role in deciding Ukraine’s future or to “Finlandize” Ukraine by the United States promising Russia that Ukraine would never join NATO. Putin’s actions in Ukraine should make clear to all that as long as he is in power, Russia will remain a threat to freedom and to many of America’s interests.

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## vostok

500 said:


> I am absolutely neutral here. Your so called news is BS propaganda.


How a Jew can be neutral now? In Kiev, the government seized the direct successors of those who served the Nazis, who shot the Jews in Kiev at Babiy Yar.

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## Serpentine

I don't always agree with things Russians do, but it's a very hilarious joke that U.S is whining about 'interfering' in Ukraine's internal affairs by Russia, as if they are totally unfamiliar with the word "interference".

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## boomslang

The U.S should IMMEDIATELY bomb Assads palaces and government buildings. But Obama is a dope, so.....


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## Doritos11

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XPCxL3ggDzA/T1dpC1Jl3QI/AAAAAAAABkU/ZCcm5SfTlUU/s1600/Neil-deGrasse-Tyson-we-got-a-bad-***-over-here-meme.png

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## Star Wars

I bet China is watching this very closely , after seeing the US response it may start its activities on south china sea...

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## Armstrong

vostok said:


> How a Jew can be neutral now? In Kiev, the government seized the direct successors of those who served the Nazis, who shot the Jews in Kiev at Babiy Yar.


 
Brother whats your position on these developments ?

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## Fukuoka

JEWS again using people to fight

If we wanr peace we must attack the people hiding behind, to show them if war is cool

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## KingMamba

vostok said:


> How a Jew can be neutral now? In Kiev, the government seized the direct successors of those who served the Nazis, who shot the Jews in Kiev at Babiy Yar.



Tavarish what are the Tatars saying about the Russian presence? I have read conflicting reports. Considering the history I hope you understand why they would be suspicious of joining Russia...


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## 500

vostok said:


> How a Jew can be neutral now? In Kiev, the government seized the direct successors of those who served the Nazis, who shot the Jews in Kiev at Babiy Yar.


It was 70 years ago. Why should I care about the country which I never even visited in my life?

Besides I dont see anything dramatic happening. Ukraine needs money and West is not willing to pay. So it will not have any choice to go back to Russia.


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## vostok

KingMamba said:


> Tavarish what are the Tatars saying about the Russian presence? I have read conflicting reports. Considering the history I hope you understand why they would be suspicious of joining Russia...


Prime Ministers of Crimea promised Tatars the widest autonomy, which they have never had in Ukraine. A couple of days ago to Crimea arrived authoritative Tatars delegation from Kazan.
Thereafter, there were no reports about Tatar protests. Let's see what will happen next.

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## liall

so is US going to sit and watch Russia take over?

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## Hashshāshīn

Desert Fox said:


> Russia itself has the largest neo-Nazi membership of any country in the entire world. Russian neo-Nazis are known for their hatred for Muslims from the Caucasus and Central Asia as well as other non-European/Slavic races.
> 
> I support Russia on this matter concerning The Ukraine. I don't see why some Ukrainians would want beef with Russia considering that both nations are predominantly Slavic.


But Russian neo-Nazis are not in power.

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## boomslang

Serpentine said:


> I don't always agree with things Russians do, but it's a very hilarious joke that U.S is whining about 'interfering' in Ukraine's internal affairs by Russia, as if they are totally unfamiliar with the word "interference".



Sort of like the Iranians in Syria, Lebanon and now Iraq ?


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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Brother whats your position on these developments ?


I hope that the situation in the south-east of Ukraine will develop on the Crimean scenario. In my town all while quietly. While there were no demonstrations nor for the fashists, neither for Russia.

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## SrNair

As an Indian.I will support Russia ,whatever the reason.I think all Indians will support Russia.
If Russia complete this successfully then US game will over.
Russia already defeat US diplomatically in Syria. If Russia can repeat that in Ukraine.Then US superpower dom become a spike crown for US.Gradually PRC will also follow that path.

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## SrNair

liall said:


> so is US going to sit and watch Russia take over?



Thats the only thing US can do now.

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## F117

Ukrainian Navy general switches allegiance:



> As pressure mounted Ukrainian Navy Commander Denis Berezovsky announced *a day after his appointment* that he was switching allegiance to the pro-Russian authorities in Crimea after gunmen believed to be acting under orders from Moscow surrounded his building.

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## vostok

500 said:


> It was 70 years ago. Why should I care about the country which I never even visited in my life?
> 
> Besides I dont see anything dramatic happening. Ukraine needs money and West is not willing to pay. So it will not have any choice to go back to Russia.


What is 70 years for the Jewish people? It is nothing. I hope your older relatives still have a different point of view. And I hope that you also change it when grow up.


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## Zarrar Alvi

Russians are in their country and they are clueless what to do wow NATO best of luck seems u all are pussies attacking nations with no army. now fight with the Russians u pussies

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## F117

EU/NATO/USA are quick to spread democracy to the poor, brown Muslims of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan and others I forgot to mention.

But this charity organization has no time for their fellow white, Christian Ukrainians.

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## Star Wars

Existential threat: ‘Russians cannot allow Ukraine to be ruled by neo-fascists’ — RT Op-Edge

forget Crimea , this sounds like Russia wants to topple the new govt. This is mainland Ukraine here

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## Ayush

india is with russia 



Armstrong said:


> People talking about donkeys, camels & the size of one's balls on a thread about Ukraine preparing for War - Amazing !


look who is complaining about off topic posts

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## Armstrong

Ayush said:


> india is with russia



So you are with Russia on this one - I'm with Ukraine & my Crimean Brethren !

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## boomslang

F117 said:


> ...But this charity organization has no time for their fellow white, Christian Ukrainians.



The Ukrainians are ALREADY 'white, Christian and democratic'. No 'work' for the U.S. there. This is a European problem. Let THEM solve it.


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## boomslang

Star Wars said:


> Existential threat: ‘Russians cannot allow Ukraine to be ruled by neo-fascists’ — RT Op-Edge
> 
> forget Crimea , this sounds like Russia wants to topple the new govt. This is mainland Ukraine here




'RT' ? Are you kidding me ? They're fair and impartial. NOT !!!


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## HAIDER

Still world biggest navel fleet of USSR parked in Ukraine and Pakistan is one of biggest customer of Ukraine defence products.


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## idune

Why this *al-Hasani* character allowed to make personal attack and derail threads? Hope Mod take action to bring this thread back to topic.

*Back on topic:*

How even Ukraine going to challenge Russian force when their newly appointed naval chief defected to Russian side. There are more rank and file who will switch and switching. West really opened a Pandora's box using Sochi Olympic as backdrop. But as usual they did not calculate all eventualities.

Obvious direction Ukraine heading is some sort of disintegration. In such case, western plan will fail in its purpose. Moreover west will have to foot the bill for western part of Ukraine debt and feeding them.

Gulf petro dollars has no purpose that far into Europe, so obviously EU and US has to take money away from their people to feed western Ukraine. How that will fare in already aggrieved public opinion is remains to be seen.

Then there is question about Ukraine and EU heavy dependence on Russian gas. It is no co incidence EU and US choose to provoke this just at the end of winter. Deep scar its creating will not go away before the next winter. Suffice to say Russia holding major part of EU energy supply lever, EU has almost no choice, except media statements, only few months.

For Russia, Putin made sure EU is not the only market, China, Japan fare significant in its energy market strategy. It is no fluke Putin signed almost half a trillion dollar energy deal with China and more to follow.

So, all the "price to pay" rhetoric from US establishment has much less edge than last cold war era.

Now question is will there be a new one? And can US and EU afford one?

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## BronzePlaque

Since you guys argument cause a lot of traffic (which is good for the business) i doubt anyone will get a ban lol

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## UKBengali

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I agree with you 100%.
> 
> Russia has freed itself from the American global hegemony, by having enough nukes to obliterate America many many times over.
> 
> We need to vastly increase the size of our nuclear arsenal (in secret), as well as our nuclear submarine fleet. DF-41 are great, but we need to move towards HGV technology as soon as possible, since we've already successfully tested the hypersonic glide vehicle technology.
> 
> Once we have thousands of HGV with nuclear warheads on them, we will be as untouchable as Russia and America are now.




Russia has massive oil and gas reserves and is not reliant on international trade the way China is.

China does not necessarily need a Navy as powerful as the US, just one that can do real damage to the US Navy, but it needs to have a more developed economy and one that is less dependent on trade with the Western powers.

I think by around 2025, the conditions will be in place for China to be able to act the way that Russia is doing now.

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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> So you're cool with the nazis' and muslim haters ?


It seems that the E.U and NATO/America is cool with the current Ukrainian gov.t which has considerable numbers of "neo-Nazis" in its ranks.

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## boomslang

Desert Fox said:


> It seems that the E.U and NATO/America is cool with the current Ukrainian gov.t which has considerable numbers of "neo-Nazis" in its ranks.




And muslim-haters ?


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## flamer84

Now i know i may be a little off topic or this doesn't concern anyone but what's new about that Russian invasion of Ukraine thingy that might trigger a new Cold War or even WW3 ?

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## Desert Fox

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I agree with you 100%.
> 
> Russia has freed itself from the American global hegemony, by having enough nukes to obliterate America many many times over.
> 
> We need to vastly increase the size of our nuclear arsenal (in secret), as well as our nuclear submarine fleet. DF-41 are great, but we need to move towards HGV technology as soon as possible, since we've already successfully tested the hypersonic glide vehicle technology.
> 
> Once we have thousands of HGV with nuclear warheads on them, we will be as untouchable as Russia and America are now.




China is dependent on the economic system established by the International High Finance. Russia has enough land mass and resources to remain self sufficient which is why sanctions or "isolation" won't do much to Russia.

Though, you do make a good point regarding massive amounts of nukes and what not.

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## T-123456

Kaan said:


> Maybe some people want to stay anonymous on the internet?


I sent my details by mod to him,you think he would dare?

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## Desert Fox

Star Wars said:


> BBC News - New head of Ukraine's navy 'defects' in Crimea
> 
> Cant get any Worse , did the previous one defect too ?
> 
> 
> 
> Russia will most probably be kicked of the G8 or max sanctions... they wont get too far



Russia should invade the entire Ukraine and annex the country.

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## Desert Fox

boomslang said:


> And muslim-haters ?


Yes, i'm sure they come with the package of people Nato/E.U./America are supporting in The Ukraine.


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## 500

vostok said:


> What is 70 years for the Jewish people? It is nothing. I hope your older relatives still have a different point of view. And I hope that you also change it when grow up.


Many Russians that I know like Germany more than USA. Although Germans killed 27 millions while US saved millions.

Anyhow, do u see thousands of refugees fleeing to Russia as Star Wars guy claimed here?


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## telkon

Nothing will happen. West uses ukraine to annoy russia, as it did use georgia in 2008. Russia will slap ukraine as it did slap georgia. End of story. And as always, the only losers will be proxies.

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## Chinese-Dragon

UKBengali said:


> Russia has massive oil and gas reserves and is not reliant on international trade the way China is.
> 
> China does not necessarily need a Navy as powerful as the US, just one that can do real damage to the US Navy, but it needs to have a more developed economy and one that is less dependent on trade with the Western powers.
> 
> I think by around 2025, the conditions will be in place for China to be able to act the way that Russia is doing now.



Agreed.

Oil dependence is a big problem. We need to find ways around that.

We already have pipelines to Russia and to several countries in Central Asia, such as Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan. And China has one of the largest domestic reserves of oil, more than America has in fact.

Renewable energy will be a big deal, we are already the number one investor and producer of green energy in the world. Unfortunately even our huge renewable energy production meets only a fraction of our energy consumption, for now at least. 

Shale oil/gas is an interesting aspect. China has the 3rd largest reserves of shale oil on the planet, and we have the number 1 largest reserves of shale gas. If we can harness this in a cost effective way, it will go a long way towards helping our strategic needs.

But like you said, it will take at least until 2020-2025 before we can do what Russia is doing today, laughing in the face of American hegemony. We did something similar during the Korean War before, in which we forced the US into the longest retreat in their military history.

However, that was a land war. They are now smart enough not to fight us on land again, given our massive numerical advantage in terms of soldiers. Which puts us back into a disadvantageous position.

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## Hakan

"You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," John Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."

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## SiCiSi

Kaan said:


> "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," John Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."



Americans seriously just cant stop looking like fools can they?

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## Genesis

I heard the new government is also corrupt, any truth to it? 

I seen some articles on the new woman Ukraine leader's houses and such, and that unlike what the west are saying charges against her in the first place are in fact true. 

What is the truth?


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## KingMamba

Kaan said:


> "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pre-text," John Kerry told the CBS program "Face the Nation."



Even I laughed at that.

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## Hashshāshīn

It's 1960. Warsaw Pact members, principally the Soviet Union, back communist rebels in Canada, who riot, burn government buildings, attack police and SWAT, until their current govt. collapses. Communist take over Parliament Hill and establish a new regime.

Now, the US has a Navy base, military assets and technology in Canada. What will they do?


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## SrNair

UKBengali said:


> Russia has massive oil and gas reserves and is not reliant on international trade the way China is.
> 
> China does not necessarily need a Navy as powerful as the US, just one that can do real damage to the US Navy, but it needs to have a more developed economy and one that is less dependent on trade with the Western powers.
> 
> I think by around 2025, the conditions will be in place for China to be able to act the way that Russia is doing now.



Until China become self sufficient in oil and gas they are vulnerable to West.
Just in Case If Russia declare a war.They can successfully maintain it for a long time.Because Oil and gas is most important They can get it from their own land.Russia owns one of best defence industry in the world.Their Anti -Air defence systems are
formidable.And they got a huge land.
But china maintain its growth economy through trade.And they still an export driven economy.And disturbances in that lifeline
will cause fatal effect to China.I dont think this will change thaat much in 2025


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## idune

Time for ambiguity is over. What is indian position in this conflict. It seems india has all but declared support for Russia.


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## vostok

500 said:


> Many Russians that I know like Germany more than USA. Although Germans killed 27 millions while US saved millions.
> 
> Anyhow, do u see thousands of refugees fleeing to Russia as Star Wars guy claimed here?


Where I live, everything is calm. Refugees likely from Western Ukraine and Kiev.


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## NKVD

idune said:


> Time for ambiguity is over. What is indian position in this conflict. It seems india has all but declared support for Russia.


India is in denial mode foreign ministry declares that russia intervention in cremia is an act of russia too secure russian people


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## RazPaK

My cousin is Ukrainian and is there now. If Russians do anything to my family, I will personally f**k as many Russians as possible. I don't care for politics, so hopefully the Russians will not put civilians in danger.


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## Aegis DDG

vostok said:


> I hope that the situation in the south-east of Ukraine will develop on the Crimean scenario. In my town all while quietly. While there were no demonstrations nor for the fashists, neither for Russia.



Are you safe? Have you seen any russian troops in your area?


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## vostok

Aegis DDG said:


> Are you safe? Have you seen any russian troops in your area?


If I see - will go out to meet them with flowers. Russian troops will enter to protect the population from the Nazis-Banderivtsy. And it is absolutely right move. For me banderovets - worse than a dog.


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## Aegis DDG

vostok said:


> If I see - will go out to meet them with flowers. Russian troops will enter to protect the population from the Nazis-Banderivtsy. And it is absolutely right move. For me banderovets - worse than a dog.



The Russian army in E.Ukraine looks more advance from the 7th army group that invaded Georgia in 2008. It seems Russia is regaining it's military strength again.

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## faisal6309

I bet my money on russia..

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## ejaz007

*Ukrainian Troops in Crimea Side with Pro-Russia Forces*

SIMFEROPOL, March 2 (RIA Novosti) – Ukrainian servicemen stationed in Crimea are leaving en masse their military units and handing over weaponry and arsenals to local pro-Russia authorities and militia, a RIA Novosti correspondent reported Sunday.

The Ukrainian Defense Ministry immediately denied the report, which was also circulated by other Russian media, calling it “a provocation.”

The ministry said in a statement that despite the attempts of “armed men” to take control of the military units stationed on the Crimean peninsula, their personnel refused to surrender and remained loyal to Kiev authorities.

Crimea, an autonomous republic within Ukraine, is now at the center of the ongoing crisis in the country as pro-Russia groups move to distance themselves from a reformed national parliament that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a week ago.

The current development comes shortly after Russia’s upper house of parliament unanimously approved a request from President Vladimir Putin on Saturday to deploy military forces in Ukraine’s mainly ethnic Russian-populated region of Crimea.

Putin issued his request in response to what he said was a threat to the lives of Russian citizens and military forces located in naval bases in Crimea.

Putin, who is the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces, has not yet ordered the deployment of a “limited military contingent” in Ukraine, but said in telephone conversations with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and US President Barack Obama early on Sunday that Moscow reserved the right to protect its own interests and those of Russian speakers in the event of violence breaking out in eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

There is already a substantial Russian military presence in southern Ukraine, courtesy of the leased Black Sea Fleet naval base in the Crimean Peninsula.

Large movements of Russian troops have been reported around the peninsula, which is in defiance of express instructions from Ukrainian authorities this week for Russian soldiers to remain confined to their quarters.

Meanwhile, thousands of pro-Moscow protesters staged a number of rallies in eastern Ukraine on Saturday backing the anti-Kiev stance of the Crimean population and calling for Russia to defend them as well.

New authorities in Kiev have already responded to Russia’s plans by putting the army on high alert and calling up all military reserves.

Kiev has also appealed to NATO on Saturday" with a request to consider all options to defend the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine.”

The North Atlantic Council, NATO’s main governing body, is scheduled to hold an extraordinary meeting on Sunday to discuss events in Ukraine, the military bloc’s secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, said in his Twitter blog.

_Updates with Ukraine’s Defense Ministry denial of the report

Ukrainian Troops in Crimea Side with Pro-Russia Forces | Defense | RIA Novosti_


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## ejaz007

*Crimean Authorities Confirm Takeover of Military Units*

SIMFEROPOL, March 2 (RIA Novosti) – Ukraine’s autonomous region of Crimea confirmed Sunday that the majority of Ukrainian military units stationed on the Crimean peninsula have expressed their support of legitimately elected Pro-Russian authorities.

Earlier reports by Russian media about peaceful takeover of the military units by forces loyal to the Crimean government were denied by the Ukrainian defense ministry.

However, Crimean authorities said that most of the Ukrainian units sided on Sunday with pro-Russian forces “without a single shot fired,” and warned the commanders of a few units that remain loyal to Kiev that they would face criminal action if refused to surrender.

“I would like to warn commanders who force their subordinates to commit illegal actions that they will be punished according to existing laws,” Crimea’s Prime Minister Sergei Aksenov said in a statement.

The Crimean government said earlier that some 10 warships from the Ukrainian navy left their naval base in Sevastopol apparently on orders from Kiev.

Crimea is now at the center of the ongoing crisis in the country as pro-Russia groups move to distance themselves from a reformed national parliament that ousted President Viktor Yanukovych a week ago.

The current developments come shortly after Russia’s upper house of parliament unanimously approved a request from President Vladimir Putin on Saturday to deploy military forces in Ukraine’s mainly ethnic Russian-populated region of Crimea.

Putin issued his request in response to what he said was a threat to the lives of Russian citizens and military forces located in naval bases around the Crimean peninsula.

Putin, who is the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces, has not yet ordered the deployment of a “limited military contingent” in Ukraine, but said in telephone conversations with UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and US President Barack Obama early on Sunday that Moscow reserved the right to protect its own interests and those of Russian speakers in the event of violence breaking out in eastern Ukraine and Crimea.

Crimean Authorities Confirm Takeover of Military Units | Russia | RIA Novosti


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## flamer84

I'm starting to appreciate this invasion of Ukraine.By the looks of it in here finally the Army is going to get the funds it needs for new equipment and than some.The same in Poland from what i'm reading.The Red Menace is back.


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## Declein

Russian Markets, Ruble Plummet On Ukraine Fears 

And here we go folks..we will get to see first hand how a energy based economy the size of Italy fares when it pisses of the whole Western block.


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## temujin

Declein said:


> Russian Markets, Ruble Plummet On Ukraine Fears
> 
> And here we go folks..we will get to see first hand how a energy based economy the size of Italy fares when it pisses of the whole Western block.


 
Ruble's decline in past 2 months is largely the consequence of Fed taper and not recent events in Ukraine. As long as it does not turn into a rout, a falling ruble can in fact benefit Russia, given its strong fiscal position, current account surplus and low levels of external debt.

The current level of devaluation is unlikely to feed through to domestic inflation either for the aforementioned reasons. Russia is currently experiencing one of the very few benefits of the 'Dutch Disease'.

Доллар преодолел отметку 36 рублей - Газета.Ru | Бизнес

Translation:

Dollar has passed for 36 rubles, the euro reached almost 49.5. Rouble has reached new antirecord for fear of investors and speculators to the financial markets of developing countries. The overall decline in exchange rates affected even China, especially the difference between Ukraine. Weak ruble authorities beneficial because it reduces the budget deficit.

In the course of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Wednesday again put antirecord ruble against the euro and the currency basket. Euro reached 49.46 rubles. Basket broke the level of 42 rubles., The dollar rose to 36 rubles. the first time since March 2009.

Rouble continues to weaken against the currency basket against the general negative sentiment towards emerging markets. "Note that the devaluation of currencies in emerging markets are not only in Russia but also in other, stronger economies - analysts' Rick-Trust." - Even in China in recent days we see a slight weakening of the yuan, although it would seem, the latest policy of the country, on the contrary, assumed currency appreciation in order to carry out a re-orientation of the external market for domestic market. "

Negative factors added a record decline Ukrainian hryvnia, falling below 10 per dollar, and the interpretation of financial statements speculators authorities.

"The Ministry of Finance has provoked a new wave of sales of the Russian currency, expert believes "BCS Express" Ivan Kopeikin. - At this time, Anton Siluanov in an interview "Russia 24" stated that the ruble has already come to an equilibrium state, the Central Bank failed in its task to further expenditure of foreign exchange reserves need not now. Participants took it as a hint to the possible termination of interventions in support of the Central Bank of the Russian currency, which caused her new panic selling. This, of course, the Bank of Russia will not in the near future to change their policies to mitigate exchange rate fluctuations, but why make such statements, in general, is not very clear.

Lately get the feeling that the Finance Ministry is trying to aggravate the fall of the ruble. "

The authorities have in this weighty profit. According Siluanova in the same interview, the movement of 1 ruble per dollar gives additional budgetary system about 180 billion rubles. "If we assume that we have deviated from the predicted values until about 2 rubles., It is 360 billion rubles. additional revenue to the budget by the beginning of the year "- he said. "If we take into account the fact that the budget has been calculated based on the value of the U.S. currency in 33.4 rubles. per dollar, and assume that the current rate will remain unchanged until the end of the year, the size of the "unplanned" income can be estimated at 360 billion rubles. "- agrees analyst Alexander Kudrin Sberbank CIB. And according to Deputy Finance Minister Tatyana Nesterenko, while maintaining the current level of the ruble and oil prices additional federal revenues in 2014 may range from 710 billion to 760 billion rubles.

"Dynamics of the Russian currency in the coming weeks will depend primarily on the situation in Ukraine and in the financial sector in China - says Kopeikin. - And if China has a decent probability of some improvements, the possibility of improvement in Ukraine is still small. Thus, the savings now optimally distributed in equal parts between dollars, euros and rubles due to the fact that, despite the strong oversold, the risks associated with Ukraine, may some time to exert pressure on the Russian currency. "

@Star Wars The post you were looking fot

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## flamer84

temujin said:


> Ruble's decline in past 2 months is largely the consequence of Fed taper and not recent events in Ukraine. As long as it does not turn into a rout, a falling ruble can in fact benefit Russia, given its strong fiscal position, current account surplus and low levels of external debt.
> 
> The current level of devaluation is unlikely to feed through to domestic inflation either for the aforementioned reasons. Russia is currently experiencing one of the very few benefits of the 'Dutch Disease'.
> 
> Доллар преодолел отметку 36 рублей - Газета.Ru | Бизнес
> 
> Translation:
> 
> Dollar has passed for 36 rubles, the euro reached almost 49.5. Rouble has reached new antirecord for fear of investors and speculators to the financial markets of developing countries. The overall decline in exchange rates affected even China, especially the difference between Ukraine. Weak ruble authorities beneficial because it reduces the budget deficit.
> 
> In the course of trading on the Moscow Stock Exchange on Wednesday again put antirecord ruble against the euro and the currency basket. Euro reached 49.46 rubles. Basket broke the level of 42 rubles., The dollar rose to 36 rubles. the first time since March 2009.
> 
> Rouble continues to weaken against the currency basket against the general negative sentiment towards emerging markets. "Note that the devaluation of currencies in emerging markets are not only in Russia but also in other, stronger economies - analysts' Rick-Trust." - Even in China in recent days we see a slight weakening of the yuan, although it would seem, the latest policy of the country, on the contrary, assumed currency appreciation in order to carry out a re-orientation of the external market for domestic market. "
> 
> Negative factors added a record decline Ukrainian hryvnia, falling below 10 per dollar, and the interpretation of financial statements speculators authorities.
> 
> "The Ministry of Finance has provoked a new wave of sales of the Russian currency, expert believes "BCS Express" Ivan Kopeikin. - At this time, Anton Siluanov in an interview "Russia 24" stated that the ruble has already come to an equilibrium state, the Central Bank failed in its task to further expenditure of foreign exchange reserves need not now. Participants took it as a hint to the possible termination of interventions in support of the Central Bank of the Russian currency, which caused her new panic selling. This, of course, the Bank of Russia will not in the near future to change their policies to mitigate exchange rate fluctuations, but why make such statements, in general, is not very clear.
> 
> Lately get the feeling that the Finance Ministry is trying to aggravate the fall of the ruble. "
> 
> The authorities have in this weighty profit. According Siluanova in the same interview, the movement of 1 ruble per dollar gives additional budgetary system about 180 billion rubles. "If we assume that we have deviated from the predicted values until about 2 rubles., It is 360 billion rubles. additional revenue to the budget by the beginning of the year "- he said. "If we take into account the fact that the budget has been calculated based on the value of the U.S. currency in 33.4 rubles. per dollar, and assume that the current rate will remain unchanged until the end of the year, the size of the "unplanned" income can be estimated at 360 billion rubles. "- agrees analyst Alexander Kudrin Sberbank CIB. And according to Deputy Finance Minister Tatyana Nesterenko, while maintaining the current level of the ruble and oil prices additional federal revenues in 2014 may range from 710 billion to 760 billion rubles.
> 
> "Dynamics of the Russian currency in the coming weeks will depend primarily on the situation in Ukraine and in the financial sector in China - says Kopeikin. - And if China has a decent probability of some improvements, the possibility of improvement in Ukraine is still small. Thus, the savings now optimally distributed in equal parts between dollars, euros and rubles due to the fact that, despite the strong oversold, the risks associated with Ukraine, may some time to exert pressure on the Russian currency. "




No.The russians just wasted 10 billion $ of their reserves trying to prop up the ruble.If they would like the ruble going down they wouldn't throw money out the window trying to stop its devaluation.

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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> No.The russians just wasted 10 billion $ of their reserves trying to prop up the ruble.If they would like the ruble going down they wouldn't throw money out the window trying to stop its devaluation.



Wait for 1 week, its going to effect everyone's economy ,EU stocks are down 3% ..


Eastern Ukrainian City of Legansk has separated from Kiev and its administrative building is flying Russian Colors


----------



## LordTyrannus

Capitalism is no way for russia! It only made some oligarch bitches rich! Back to the roots, back to Commie style economy!

Soviet Union 2.0 baby!


----------



## Star Wars

Armed people taking over Donetsk administrative building...

Check below where Donetsk is 







Russians took Crimea without firing a single shot... America ..*Learn something from Putin!!!*


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

anonymus said:


> Probably only Slavic countries. Incorporating stans would be a demographic suicide.



he would want kazakistan Kyrgyzstan, and Tajikistan for sure and they would love to join too


LordTyrannus said:


> Capitalism is no way for russia! It only made some oligarch bitches rich! Back to the roots, back to Commie style economy!
> 
> Soviet Union 2.0 baby!



and niether planned communist economy works


----------



## LordTyrannus

wasm95 said:


> he would want kazakistan for sure and he will try
> 
> 
> and niether planned communist economy works



Socialist economy is the only option for a dying planet. Capitalism destroyed everything, people, environment, resources, nature etc.

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## Dr. Strangelove

LordTyrannus said:


> Socialist economy is the only option for a dying planet. Capitalism destroyed everything, people, environment, resources, nature etc.



capatilism ai proving to be a disaster 
communism is a disaster state controlled economy is bound to fail 
a middle solution like hitlers third way may work



Star Wars said:


> Armed people taking over Donetsk administrative building...
> 
> Check below where Donetsk is
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russians took Crimea without firing a single shot... America ..*Learn something from Putin!!!*



how many russians live in western ukraine


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## Star Wars

wasm95 said:


> how many russians live in western ukraine



I am entirely unsure about Eastern Ukraine is mostly pro Russian and western Ukraine is mostly pro Europe


----------



## Porus

LordTyrannus said:


> Capitalism is no way for russia! It only made some oligarch bitches rich! Back to the roots, back to Commie style economy!
> Soviet Union 2.0 baby!



And who will carry out this holy assignment? The oligarchs of Russia?


----------



## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Wait for 1 week, its going to effect everyone's economy ,EU stocks are down 3% ..
> 
> 
> Eastern Ukrainian City of Legansk has separated from Kiev and its administrative building is flying Russian Colors



3% is nothing and it was going to be expected with War looming on the horizon.

On the other hand the beating the Moscow stock took-20% down before trading was stopped because it could have been worse-,and the tumble of the ruble.On top of that,thanks to the 2008 crisis Europe has safeguards in place,Russia doe not.

"The West" is a 40 trillion $ juggernaut which controls the capital flows,the rating agencies,the banks,basically all economic leeways.Russia has an economy the size of Italy which relies mainly on resources export.This is a no brainer.Contrary to what you believe this invasion of Ukraine is more likely to lead to Russia's downfall than her emerging as a superpower.


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## Dr. Strangelove

Star Wars said:


> I am entirely unsure about Eastern Ukraine is mostly pro Russian and western Ukraine is mostly pro Europe



but putin would try ton take entire ukraine but will he have support of ukrainians


----------



## Informant

LordTyrannus said:


> Capitalism is no way for russia! It only made some oligarch bitches rich! Back to the roots, back to Commie style economy!
> 
> Soviet Union 2.0 baby!



Yeah you'd be the first one to run away from commie land, where there is no freedom, no choice, no pay upto your standards. I know a few Russians, old guys, who dont miss communism one bit. 

What you are experiencing is good ol' romanticizing the past which admittedly all of us indulge in.

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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> 3% is nothing and it was going to be expected with War looming on the horizon.
> 
> On the other hand the beating the Moscow stock took-20% down before trading was stopped because it could have been worse-,and the tumble of the ruble.On top of that,thanks to the 2008 crisis Europe has safeguards in place,Russia doe not.
> 
> "The West" is a 40 trillion $ juggernaut which controls the capital flows,the rating agencies,the banks,basically all economic leeways.Russia has an economy the size of Italy which relies mainly on resources export.This is a no brainer.Contrary to what you believe this invasion of Ukraine is more likely to lead to Russia's downfall than her emerging as a superpower.



Wishful thinking i'd say .. especially when you are talking about "Downfall of Russia" ..
Do you know the Warren buffet index has been expecting a stock market collapse in Early March for more then 50% ? ..
As is said , this will effect the world economy .. Ukraine is exporter of grains and corn, Russia is exporter of resources to western world , especially GAS ... If anything happens to Russia you can bet the whole thing will be effected...

Besides this drop in stock market is most likely to Give Russian Oligarchs more control of the market as western world quits the Russian markets .

Putin isn't an idiot who did not expect this...He knows what he is doing... Besides ..Eastern Ukraine contains the real Ukrainian economy and Industry , An annexation of Ukraine would only benefit Russia in the long run leaving E.U with a rather economically devastated Ukraine with a 19billion$ debt

http://www.thelocal.fr/20140303/france-will-not-block-military-contracts-with-russia


> France: Putin has broken international laws - The Local
> 
> Paris said, however, it would not be suspending its military contracts with Moscow.


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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Wishful thinking i'd say .. especially when you are talking about "Downfall of Soviet Union" ..
> Do you know the Warren buffet index has been expecting a stock market collapse in Early March for more then 50% ? ..
> As is said , this will effect the world economy .. Ukraine is exporter of grains and corn, Russia is exporter of resources to western world , especially GAS ... If anything happens to Russia you can bet the whole thing will be effected...
> 
> Besides this drop in stock market is most likely to Give Russian Oligarchs more control of the market as western world quits the Russian markets .
> 
> Putin isn't an idiot who did not expect this...He knows what he is doing...



LOL at this whole "Putin superhero" stuff while all the others in power in major countries are idiots.Whatever buddy,keep your Russia STRONK,Amrika WEAK dreams.I just told you what happenned this morning without any sanctions,just as a gentle reminder to Russia:10 billion $ wasted to prop up a falling ruble,Russian stock exchange plummeting at a historical low.

The thing is Putin can't back down without loosing face and this will cost him.How much ? I don't know,neither of us do,we shall see.Maybe they'll have an understanding,Crimeea goes free,he leaves the rest of Ukraine alone.I'm wondering if the russians will escalate in Eastern Ukraine like in Crimeea.My bet is that they won't but i have been wrong before.


----------



## LordTyrannus

wasm95 said:


> capatilism ai proving to be a disaster
> communism is a disaster state controlled economy is bound to fail
> a middle solution like hitlers third way may work



Communist economy colapsed because USA forced Russia into an Arms race. Soviet Union had to invest too much in weapons because NATO was a huge danger for peace. They attacked Korea, Vietnam etc.

Without NATO and capitalism the Communist Economy will grow like a flower!

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## Dr. Strangelove

LordTyrannus said:


> Communist economy colapsed because USA forced Russia into an Arms race. Soviet Union had to invest too much in weapons because NATO was a huge danger for peace. They attacked Korea, Vietnam etc.
> 
> Without NATO and capitalism the Communist Economy will grow like a flower!



planned economy had its flaws 
and if it happens again same arm race will start again


----------



## LordTyrannus

Informant said:


> Yeah you'd be the first one to run away from commie land, where there is no freedom, no choice, no pay upto your standards. I know a few Russians, old guys, who dont miss communism one bit.



Your only choice is Mcdonalds OR BurgerKing! You are a capitalist consumption victim. All western media is a tool to enslave the western citizens as consumers.



> What you are experiencing is good ol' romanticizing the past which admittedly all of us indulge in.



Without capitalist provokateurs and Liars, the Communist life style will make people much more happy.


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## flamer84

LordTyrannus said:


> Communist economy colapsed because USA forced Russia into an Arms race. Soviet Union had to invest too much in weapons because NATO was a huge danger for peace. They attacked Korea, Vietnam etc.
> 
> Without NATO and capitalism the Communist Economy will grow like a flower!



Oh get lost ! In both cases Vietnam and Koreea,the communist North invaded first.Go troll somewhere else,this topic was raped enough a short time ago.


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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> LOL at this whole "Putin superhero" stuff while all the others in power in major countries are idiots.Whatever buddy,keep your Russia STRONK,Amrika WEAK dreams.



Considering how Putin has been handling the EU and America and his history of handling Russia ... I,d say he is a strong man..there is little doubt on that and he is making EU and US look like a fool several times before. You can stay ignorant but the long term benefits of getting Ukraine far out ways the stock markets . You have to understand Putin has something in mind and this has been well planned from the looks of it . Time will tell if it succeeds



> I just told you what happenned this morning without any sanctions,just as a gentle reminder to Russia:10 billion $ wasted to prop up a falling ruble,Russian stock exchange plummeting at a historical low.



There wont be any Sanctions , Stock markets give little view on running of an economy and i already told you about the predictions for the American markets by Warren buffet himself , and yeah Russia has $493billion in Reserves


And yeah Gas prices has been hiked by 10% , which means entire Europe pays 10% more for the Gas . If America launches economic warfare its Europe who suffers ...



> The thing is Putin can't back down without loosing face and this will cost him.How much ? I don't know,neither of us do,we shall see.Maybe they'll have an understanding,Crimeea goes free,he leaves the rest of Ukraine alone.I'm wondering if the russians will escalate in Eastern Ukraine like in Crimeea.My bet is that they won't but i have been wrong before.



Cost him ?.... not much , not many will comply with the sanctions , you can bet of that ...
Russian legislators have passed bills to Annex Ukrainian territory , Russia has been given the right to invade by the parliament. Russian army is in Crimea and we have unknown personal taking over Eastern Ukrainian cities ..

Only three ways this could end...

*1.*This could very well lead to an annexation of Eastern Ukraine
*2.*The New govt. toppled and replaced again
*3.* Or the Eastern Ukraine seceding

After the hew Integration laws passed in the Russian Parliament, all these eastern states have to do is send an official request for Russian integration or request for assistance.

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## Informant

LordTyrannus said:


> Your only choice is Mcdonalds OR BurgerKing! You are a capitalist consumption victim. All western media is a tool to enslave the western citizens as consumers.
> 
> 
> 
> Without capitalist provokateurs and Liars, the Communist life style will make people much more happy.



The idea or the essence seems romantic and attractive, everyone being equal. But it doesnt work. It kills the drive to succeed. When my hardwork is equal to someone's less stressful work there goes the motivation. 

Oh I love the Burger King, the whopper, the angus, the fries. LAWD!


----------



## LordTyrannus

flamer84 said:


> Oh get lost ! In both cases Vietnam and Koreea,the communist North invaded first.Go troll somewhere else,this topic was raped enough a short time ago.



Thats what your brainwashing western media told you. USA was in deep fear of the domino effect of Communist Lifestyle. Poor people always choose communism over capitalism. Only the rich try to spread their interests with capitalism! The western Powers provoked a war to save their capitalist interests. French Oppressors first entered korea and asian soil to utilize poor koreans as cheap labor force. You are enslaved as a consumption victim and they give you junk of every kind.



Informant said:


> The idea or the essence seems romantic and attractive, everyone being equal. But it doesnt work. It kills the drive to succeed. When my hardwork is equal to someone's less stressful work there goes the motivation.
> 
> Oh I love the Burger King, the whopper, the angus, the fries. LAWD!



Try to be not an Egomaniac for once. Choosing communism over the capitalism disaster is a sign of EVOLUTION for mankind.

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## Star Wars

Kerry threats vs Russia unacceptable, West sides with neo-Nazis - Russia's FM — RT News

​Ukrainian special forces regiment joins other units in refusal to march against Crimea — RT News

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## LordTyrannus

Soviet 2.0 on the rise.


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## Informant

LordTyrannus said:


> Thats what your brainwashing western media told you. USA was in deep fear of the domino effect of Communist Lifestyle. Poor people always choose communism over capitalism. Only the rich try to spread their interests with capitalism! The western Powers provoked a war to save their capitalist interests. French Oppressors first entered korea and asian soil to utilize poor koreans as cheap labor force. You are enslaved as a consumption victim and they give you junk of every kind.
> 
> 
> 
> Try to be not an Egomaniac for once. Choosing communism over the capitalism disaster is a sign of EVOLUTION for mankind.



What propaganda? Russian Oil and mineral companies have tanked a combined 22%. Wheat's gone up 10%. Your economy will take a hit. Not my headache but you better be prepared for some tough times.


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## Star Wars

BREAKING. An entire #Ukraine air force division of 800 men & 60 fighter jets have claimed loyalty to Crimean local authorities.

Unconfirmed twitter news ....

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## LordTyrannus

Informant said:


> What propaganda? Russian Oil and mineral companies have tanked a combined 22%. Wheat's gone up 10%. Your economy will take a hit. Not my headache but you better be prepared for some tough times.



Russia can switch to good old commie style economy every day. So your rating agencys and economy spys will become toothless tigers/cats.


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## Star Wars

Informant said:


> What propaganda? Russian Oil and mineral companies have tanked a combined 22%. Wheat's gone up 10%. Your economy will take a hit. Not my headache but you better be prepared for some tough times.



Same time they have increased the Gas prices by 10%.... Its Europe who pays for Americas economic war

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## 500

Star Wars said:


> Only three ways this could end...
> 
> *1.*This could very well lead to an annexation of Eastern Ukraine
> *2.*The New govt. toppled and replaced again
> *3.* Or the Eastern Ukraine seceding


1 and 2 absolutely impossible. 3 - very low chance.

The most possible scenarios:

1. Crimea is annexed by Russia but formally remains as autonomy in Ukraine.
2. Crimea seceding.


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## Developereo

Secret American plan to station troops in *Czechoslovakia* exposed 

MSNBC stuffs up, puts Czechoslovakia back on the map | News.com.au

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## temujin

flamer84 said:


> 3% is nothing and it was going to be expected with War looming on the horizon.
> 
> On the other hand the beating the Moscow stock took-20% down before trading was stopped because it could have been worse-,and the tumble of the ruble.On top of that,thanks to the 2008 crisis Europe has safeguards in place,Russia doe not.
> 
> "The West" is a 40 trillion $ juggernaut which controls the capital flows,the rating agencies,the banks,basically all economic leeways.Russia has an economy the size of Italy which relies mainly on resources export.This is a no brainer.Contrary to what you believe this invasion of Ukraine is more likely to lead to Russia's downfall than her emerging as a superpower.



You clearly do not know how currency markets work.Limited central bank intervention is designed to prevent rapid fluctuations which can trigger stop losses that generate a domino effect.Why do you think they stopped at $10 billion when they have half a trillion to burn?

The Russian central bank is happy to let the Ruble find its natural floor gradually for the reasons I cited earlier.Much of the losses today were driven by speculation anyway.Can you remind me again how much the Ruble 'tanked' by since this morning? 

Meanwhile $25 billion have been wiped off the market cap of the FTSE with bloodbath expected on Wall Street too.

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## Star Wars

temujin said:


> You clearly do not know how currency markets work.Limited central bank intervention is designed to prevent rapid fluctuations which can trigger stop losses that generate a domino effect.Why do you think they stopped at $10 billion when they have half a trillion to burn?
> 
> The Russian central bank is happy to let the Ruble find its floor gradually for the reasons I cited earlier.Much of the losses today was driven by speculation anyway.Can you remind me again how much the Ruble 'tanked' by since this morning?
> 
> Meanwhile the $25 billion have been wiped off the market cap of the FTSE with bloodbath expected on Wall Street too.



I can find your earlier post..i'd like a read


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## 888jamie888

Russia will hold some kind of referendum or what not, with the end result being that Crimea ends up under Russian control.
Putins Eurasion union is a bid to reform the USSR as best he can. Belarus is pretty much already under their control.
Unfortunately they are blessed with gas/oil which Europe needs. What's to stop them turning off the taps when we enforce sanctions?
It'll be Sudetenland all over again.


----------



## damm1t

vostok said:


> If I see - will go out to meet them with flowers.



That's a new low in my life I have unfortunately witnessed... Why don't you respect ukraine's sovereignty and move your asz to russia if you feel uncomfortable in there? Don't tell me about russian majority tales because this area once belonged to Tatars and russkies were not majority until Tatars have been deportated by soviet mofos... what a shame..


----------



## vostok

damm1t said:


> That's a new low in my life I have unfortunately witnessed... Why don't you respect ukraine's sovereignty and move your asz to russia if you feel uncomfortable in there? Don't tell me about russian majority tales because this area once belonged to Tatars and russkies were not majority until Tatars have been deportated by soviet mofos... what a shame..


And before Tatars there lived other nations. 
Power in Kiev was captured by the Nazis. Russian have every right to defend Russian. Did Turks defend the Turks in Cyprus?


----------



## Star Wars

888jamie888 said:


> Russia will hold some kind of referendum or what not, with the end result being that Crimea ends up under Russian control.
> Putins Eurasion union is a bid to reform the USSR as best he can. Belarus is pretty much already under their control.
> Unfortunately they are blessed with gas/oil which Europe needs. What's to stop them turning off the taps when we enforce sanctions?
> It'll be Sudetenland all over again.



There is talk of Referendum in Eastern Ukrainian cities too

Global stocks tumbling this morning


----------



## damm1t

vostok said:


> And before Tatars there lived other nations.
> Power in Kiev was captured by the Nazis. Russian have every right to defend Russian. Did Turks defend the Turks in Cyprus?



the difference is turkish side of cyprus wasn't a part of other country.. It was belonged to Cypriot Turks and greeks assaulted and butchered them.. situation is completely diffferent.. if you feel unsecure there go to your motha-rasha comrade.. crimea is not yours..

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## Star Wars

deleted old news


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## 888jamie888

Star Wars said:


> There is talk of Referendum in Eastern Ukrainian cities too
> 
> Global stocks tumbling this morning



What's the ethnic makeup of those regions? Majority Russian?
It is neither the Russians nor the inhabitants job to simply declare a referendum. 
Yes they are, quite concerning really.


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## vostok

damm1t said:


> the difference is turkish side of cyprus wasn't a part of other country.. It was belonged to Cypriot Turks and greeks assaulted and butchered them.. situation is completely diffferent.. if you feel unsecure there go to your motha-rasha comrade.. crimea is not yours..


Realy? It seems only to you that the situation is different. And the rest of the world did not recognize of the Turkish Republic of Cyprus. Radical elements come t power in Kiev. They hate Russian. So, we have every right to devide from them and proclaim our own state. And Russia has every right to help Russian in Ukraine.


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## Star Wars

888jamie888 said:


> What's the ethnic makeup of those regions? Majority Russian?
> It is neither the Russians nor the inhabitants job to simply declare a referendum.
> Yes they are, quite concerning really.










I suspect that entire purple color is backing Russia

*Shit just got Real*



> The Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation Alexander Vitko Ukrainian military delivered an ultimatum, "Interfax-Ukraine" in the Defense Ministry.
> 
> "*If until 5:00 am tomorrow, they will not give up, start a real assault units and parts Armed Forces of Ukraine over the Crimea"*, - told the agency.



I suspect Russia wants to get hold of Crimea before moving onto rest of Ukraine


----------



## damm1t

vostok said:


> And the rest of the world did not recognize of the Turkish Republic of Cyprus.



thats all politic and another book's chapter why the rest didnt recognize, we recognize them and thats all matter no one can touch them once again.. can you claim cyprus is in another country's borders by law? but i can claim crimea belongs to ukr..


----------



## Star Wars

> Till now this has been the most peaceful invasion of a country I have ever seen, no lives lost, no shots fired, selfies with the invading army etc. bet Switzerland could not pull of a better one while invading Liechtenstein.



Quote from a friend in Ukraine


----------



## Informant

Star Wars said:


> Same time they have increased the Gas prices by 10%.... Its Europe who pays for Americas economic war



Russia only shoots itself in the feet, for the time being Europe will pinch. In the long run Russia does not set a good precedence. Money is still in the West. Short term gains will hut Russia in the long run. The West may not come out guns blazing, but they know how to pressurize people.


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## vostok

damm1t said:


> thats all politic and another book's chapter why the rest didnt recognize, we recognize them and thats all matter no one can touch them once again.. can you claim cyprus is in another country's borders by law? but i can claim crimea belongs to ukr..


Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in honor of the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine and Russia. No reunification - no Crimea.

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## Ayush

vostok said:


> Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in honor of the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine and Russia. No reunification - no Crimea.


if u dont mind me asking,are u an ethnic russian in ukraine or a russian national in ukraine?


----------



## flamer84

vostok said:


> Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in honor of the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine and Russia. No reunification - no Crimea.



Strange how for 23 years this was not a issue while at the same time Russia signed security guarantees to Ukraine acknowledging their territorial integrity.



888jamie888 said:


> Russia will hold some kind of referendum or what not, with the end result being that Crimea ends up under Russian control.
> Putins Eurasion union is a bid to reform the USSR as best he can. Belarus is pretty much already under their control.
> Unfortunately they are blessed with gas/oil which Europe needs. What's to stop them turning off the taps when we enforce sanctions?
> It'll be Sudetenland all over again.



Fortunately it is being handled.Europe's reliance on russian gas is down to 25% allready,which is still a lot but less than 2007-2009.The situation will only improove with more LNG terminals which are increasing all over Europe and shale gas.It will help alot if Assad falls and the pipe from the arabs will be built .

But as of right now if russians turn off the fosset tommorow,yes,it's a problem.


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## vostok

Ayush said:


> if u dont mind me asking,are u an ethnic russian in ukraine or a russian national in ukraine?


Yes, I am ethnic Russian. In Ukraine, by the most conservative estimates about 10 million Russian. Others say - 17 million. Plus another 10-15 million Russian-speaking Ukrainians. Therefore, policies of the junta that seized power seems full moronizm. On the first day they canceled the law of regional languages and began rehabilitation of fascism and Nazism in Ukraine. It is a clinical, medical cretinism.

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## LordTyrannus

damm1t said:


> That's a new low in my life I have unfortunately witnessed... Why don't you respect ukraine's sovereignty and move your asz to russia if you feel uncomfortable in there? Don't tell me about russian majority tales because this area once belonged to Tatars and russkies were not majority until Tatars have been deportated by soviet mofos... what a shame..





damm1t said:


> the difference is turkish side of cyprus wasn't a part of other country.. It was belonged to Cypriot Turks and greeks assaulted and butchered them.. situation is completely diffferent.. if you feel unsecure there go to your motha-rasha comrade.. crimea is not yours..




did someone fart? i heard something like a thanksgiving-turkey fart.

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## damm1t

vostok said:


> Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in honor of the 300th anniversary of the reunification of Ukraine and Russia. No reunification - no Crimea.



oh mate it was ages ago reunification between Ukr anc Soviets I think it takes a millenium you russians come to yourselves after vodka drunkenness. soviets gone, crimea remained in Ukr.. then in 2014 russia invading Ukraine.. You really think its about reunification? if so you are really so naive.. That's not a book which you lend to a friend and want it back....



LordTyrannus said:


> did someone fart? i heard something like a thanksgiving-turkey fart.


,

Funny and mature.. congrats

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## LordTyrannus

THIS is power projection.






I love the Apocalypse Now Music!


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## vostok

damm1t said:


> oh mate it was ages ago reunification between Ukr anc Soviets I think it takes a millenium you russians come to yourselves after vodka drunkenness. soviets gone, crimea remained in Ukr.. then in 2014 russia invading Ukraine.. You really think its about reunification? if so you are really so naive.. That's not a book which you lend to a friend and want it back....


Listen, really between history of Ukraine and Cyprus a lot in common. After gaining independence, about half of Ukraine - Russian and half - Ukrainians. We lived peacefuly 23 years, while to power Kiev did not come fascist junta. After that our roads diverged. Now the only chance to reunite Ukraine - out from Kiev junta and hold elections. And if that does not happen - Russian part of Ukraine declares independence. And I'm not just talking about the Crimea, and of the whole south-eastern part of the country, inhabited by Russian.


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## 888jamie888

Russia has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea an ultimatum, it's a full on occupation, completely unlawful.

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## Serpentine

Putin's reaction to ridiculous statements from U.S about 'interfering' in Ukraine.

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## vostok

888jamie888 said:


> Russia has given Ukrainian forces in Crimea an ultimatum, it's a full on occupation, completely unlawful.


Completely unlawful is what happened in Kiev. At the same time, the West did not condemn the coup d'etat in Ukraine, and fully supported terrorists. 
What happened in the Crimea and South-East - just a reaction, it is self-defense. That never would have happened if not the seizure of power by the Nazis in Kiev.

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## 888jamie888

vostok said:


> Completely unlawful is what happened in Kiev. At the same time, the West did not condemn the coup d'etat in Ukraine, and fully supported terrorists.
> What happened in the Crimea and South-East - just a reaction, it is self-defense. That never would have happened if not the seizure of power by the Nazis in Kiev.


Some of the protesters may have been less than savoury and had ulterior motives, but to brand them all as terrorists is ridiculous.
In case you hadn't noticed this whole situation arose due to the widepsread corruption which is pretty much evident everywhere in the former USSR. You have the nerve to call them nazis? When protest, a fundamental part of democracy, was pretty much outlawed.


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## LordTyrannus

888jamie888 said:


> Some of the protesters may have been less than savoury and had ulterior motives, but to brand them all as terrorists is ridiculous.
> In case you hadn't noticed this whole situation arose due to the widepsread corruption which is pretty much evident everywhere in the former USSR. You have the nerve to call them nazis? When protest, a fundamental part of democracy, was pretty much outlawed.



Yes they are Nazis, controlled and organized from US NGOs

These dipchits would fail epicly when west let them alone.


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## vostok

888jamie888 said:


> Some of the protesters may have been less than savoury and had ulterior motives, but to brand them all as terrorists is ridiculous.
> In case you hadn't noticed this whole situation arose due to the widepsread corruption which is pretty much evident everywhere in the former USSR. You have the nerve to call them nazis? When protest, a fundamental part of democracy, was pretty much outlawed.


All governments are corrupt . Everywhere , throughout the world. In rich countries - less corruption, in poor - more . And some forces skillfully played on Ukrainian citizens discontent to power. In Kiev, now the people does not solve anything . Ministers appoints by armed terrorists. These terrorists continue to rob and kill.
And - yes! They do use the symbolism of the SS division ! Openly!
West openly supported terrorists which came to power . By these actions West destroyed all legitimate power in Ukraine. Now every region for himself . We ask for help our countrymen , we ask Putin . No one will help us exept Russia - because unlike the terrorists , we have no weapons.

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## BLACKEAGLE

All the best Ukraine in the struggle against barbaric Russia and it's sellouts.

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## Nike

damm1t said:


> the difference is turkish side of cyprus wasn't a part of other country.. It was belonged to Cypriot Turks and greeks assaulted and butchered them.. situation is completely diffferent.. if you feel unsecure there go to your motha-rasha comrade.. crimea is not yours..



Sorry you can't bitching another while your own country doing exactly the same thing the Russian did right now, regardless this kind of topics has been discussed so many times. I just wanna to say, in this world with real politics as our guide to live in this kind of wild jungle, power is the answer for all of the problems has arises in international stage and military is one of the most important tools to show your power. Russia did their best in this case, US did their portion in Iraq and A'stan, China doing good in Korean War and so on. Just relax and enjoy the show from our Russian and Ukrainian friends, they are kindly enough to show us this kind of interesting stages.


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## 888jamie888

vostok said:


> All governments are corrupt . Everywhere , throughout the world. In rich countries - less corruption, in poor - more . And some forces skillfully played on Ukrainian citizens discontent to power. In Kiev, now the people does not solve anything . Ministers appoints by armed terrorists. These terrorists continue to rob and kill.
> And - yes! They do use the symbolism of the SS division ! Openly!
> West openly supported terrorists which came to power . By these actions West destroyed all legitimate power in Ukraine. Now every region for himself . We ask for help our countrymen , we ask Putin . No one will help us exept Russia - because unlike the terrorists , we have no weapons.


'Some forces'? They protested, peacefully for a while about a genuine issue, as is their right. Your president did not help himself by opening fire on them. Putin has not given them a chance to do anything.
Of course this whole situation is messed up, but to occupy another country? That is not the way to solve it.


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## vostok

888jamie888 said:


> 'Some forces'? They protested, peacefully for a while about a genuine issue, as is their right. Your president did not help himself by opening fire on them. Putin has not given them a chance to do anything.
> Of course this whole situation is messed up, but to occupy another country? That is not the way to solve it.


" Some forces " - who are behind the Arab Spring upheavals and all the Orange Revolutions. "Peaceful Protestants " - if they were peaceful, just would have waited a year to vote for a new president.
How can you call a man with Molotov cocktails , burning unarmed policeman? Is it peace ? They killed unarmed police , they tortured their families. They are Nazis . They can not be peaceful in principle. And they showed their true bestial face . On the first day they canceled the law on regional languages , began rehabilitation of fascism and Nazism . They destroy our monuments . They go to meetings of deputies and officials with guns and openly threatening to kill anyone who does not recognize them . One must be blind to call these people " peaceful protesters ."
They illegally seized power with the support of the West. In response, we asked for the support of Russia . We did not start the war. But we will finish it .


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## 888jamie888

vostok said:


> " Some forces " - who are behind the Arab Spring upheavals and all the Orange Revolutions. "Peaceful Protestants " - if they were peaceful, just would have waited a year to vote for a new president.
> How can you call a man with Molotov cocktails , burning unarmed policeman? Is it peace ? They killed unarmed police , they tortured their families. They are Nazis . They can not be peaceful in principle. And they showed their true bestial face . On the first day they canceled the law on regional languages , began rehabilitation of fascism and Nazism . They destroy our monuments . They go to meetings of deputies and officials with guns and openly threatening to kill anyone who does not recognize them . One must be blind to call these people " peaceful protesters ."
> They illegally seized power with the support of the West. In response, we asked for the support of Russia . We did not start the war. But we will finish it .


If you read what I wrote I agree with many of your points, but Putin is out of order in going this far.


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## vostok

888jamie888 said:


> If you read what I wrote I agree with many of your points, but Putin is out of order in going this far.


Nobody will protect us but Putin . West will happily watch how terrorists kill all non-Ukrainians, and then - "not enough Nazi" Ukrainians. 
Generally the USSR was destroyed illegally. It's time to gradually restore the territorial integrity of the state.

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## BLACKEAGLE

The west should have helped former soviet countries building up their armies. Now, it's too late. Unfortunately, Ukraine doesn't have any chance to win against Russia.



vostok said:


> " Some forces " - who are behind the Arab Spring upheavals and all the Orange Revolutions. "Peaceful Protestants " - if they were peaceful, just would have waited a year to vote for a new president.
> How can you call a man with Molotov cocktails , burning unarmed policeman? Is it peace ? They killed unarmed police , they tortured their families. They are Nazis . They can not be peaceful in principle. And they showed their true bestial face . On the first day they canceled the law on regional languages , began rehabilitation of fascism and Nazism . They destroy our monuments . They go to meetings of deputies and officials with guns and openly threatening to kill anyone who does not recognize them . One must be blind to call these people " peaceful protesters ."
> They illegally seized power with the support of the West. In response, we asked for the support of Russia . We did not start the war. But we will finish it .


So you're technically one of the sellouts who calls for Russian invasion of your country.

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## xunzi

If this is us, we would have done the same as Russia. The Korean War and the Vietnam War is a testament of that. When push comes to shove, where the West push their expansion and influence right next to you, you have two choices: Bow and accept the West's dominance or fight at all cost. Russia chose the latter and I'm afraid it is the right decision despite breaking international law. The future of Russia's national interest is at risk.


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## vostok

BLACKEAGLE said:


> The west should have helped former soviet countries building up their armies. Now, it's too late. Unfortunately, Ukraine doesn't have any chance to win against Russia.
> 
> 
> So you're technically one of the sellouts who calls for Russian invasion of your country.


Technically - Ukraine is illegally seized Russian land.


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## BLACKEAGLE

vostok said:


> Technically - Ukraine is illegally seized Russian land.


That's what sellouts say.

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## jaunty

Is Russian only interested in Crimea or the rest of Eastern Ukraine as well?


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## flamer84

BLACKEAGLE said:


> The west should have helped former soviet countries building up their armies. Now, it's too late. Unfortunately, Ukraine doesn't have any chance to win against Russia.
> 
> 
> So you're technically one of the sellouts who calls for Russian invasion of your country.



Yep one of those digusting rats(like that traitor admiral) who took a pledge of allegiance to his country-Ukraine only to run for the hills and grumble at the russian feet when he saw the first T-72 rolling in.

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## vostok

BLACKEAGLE said:


> That's what sellouts say.


I look at you, if the area where you live, will be cut off from the rest of country by enemies of the country. Would you wish for reunification of your Motherland?


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## flamer84

vostok said:


> I look at you, if the area where you live, will be cut off from the rest of country by enemies of the country. Would you wish for reunification of your Motherland?




Yeah right,until now (23 years!) none of you were out in the streets screaming Russia.When Russian armor rolls in ...here come the brave patriots ...Don't make me laugh,sellouts and cowards,that's what you are.

Those so called "Maidan fascists" stood against army/police bullets in the streets for what they believe they didn't wait for a foreign power to roll in troops to come in the streets and play the "patriots" role.

You and your kind are traitors and cowards,nothing more.


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## BLACKEAGLE

flamer84 said:


> Yep one of those digusting rats(like that traitor admiral) who took a pledge of allegiance to his country-Ukraine only to run for the hills and grumble at the russian feet when he saw the first T-72 rolling in.


Ukraine has a good military industry, but only for export, they neglected their army to build up others for profit. I was shocked when I found out that Ukranian army has only 10 T-84 and 271 T-80U, and 320 exported to Pakistan. 
I hope they fight back well.


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## Star Wars

jaunty said:


> Is Russian only interested in Crimea or the rest of Eastern Ukraine as well?



Rest of Ukraine i think.. Russia has made clear they wont tolerate this new govt. in Kiev


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## flamer84

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Ukraine has a good military industry, but only for export, they neglected their army to build up others for profit. I was shocked when I found out that Ukranian army has only 10 T-84 and 271 T-80U, and 320 exported to Pakistan.
> I hope they fight back well.



That's right but that's not even their biggest problem.Their problem is @vostok llike traitors.Imagine going to war and suddenly the man next to you turns to be a traitor.The flank falls and so on and it can lead to a rout,low moral.

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## Star Wars

Next, Putin Will Seize Donetsk and Kharkiv | The Moscow Times


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## shuttler

I am not seeing a war between Russian and Ukraine et al is happening
NO!
Ukraine is broke now even without a war and think about the future, who will supply gas to the Ukraine and EU countries after the war?
Crimea is having a Russian majority there and it belongs to USSR previously anyway. The territory will be happy under Russian rules
It is the hardest time for Ukrainians but if you have a really bad economy, a splitting demographic and a much weaker military force you have to bite the bullets and move on
NATO and USA are to have the biggest piece in terms of political and economic influence in the rest of Ukraine
Russian secures a strategically important territory in Crimea but painfully loses Ukriane to the tighter embrace of its enemies

Under the above scenario who will be the losers and winners:

Winners:
EU and USA getting the almost complete alligiance of Ukraine without firing a bullet

Losers
Russia - losing Ukraine, facing hideous EU/US sanctions and worsening relationships with them although still securing a useful piece of strategic importance in Crimea
Ukraine - further ruining the relationship with Russia whom its energy supplies and part of its economy depend on


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## Falcon29

Russia gives Ukrainian forces in Crimea ultimatum to surrender: Interfax| Reuters

(Reuters) - Russia's Black Sea Fleet has told Ukrainian forces in Crimea to surrender by 5 a.m. on Tuesday or face a military assault, Interfax news agency quoted a source in the Ukrainian Defence Ministry as saying.

The ultimatum, Interfax said, was issued by Alexander Vitko, the fleet's commander.

The ministry did not immediately confirm the report and there was no immediate comment by the Black Sea Fleet, which has a base in Crimea, where Russian forces are in control.

..........


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## Reashot Xigwin

Bah! all Putin need to do is just wait till the entire country military Capitulate.


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## shuttler

I think the Russians should not do anything now to provoke a war. It has already gained the control of Crimea unless it wants to take over East Ukraine
But if they do that I am SURE Nato will intervene militarily


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## Luffy 500

Russians wouldn't have given up crimea. Its too important for them. And if the local pop. are with russians than Ukaraine should let it go. Better to lose territory than have disloyal citizens. Why didn't moscow negotiated the return of crimea upon the fall of USSR. Though putin is warmonger.


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## shuttler

Luffy 500 said:


> Russians wouldn't have given up crimea. Its too important for them. And if the local pop. are with russians than Ukaraine should let it go. Better to lose territory than have disloyal citizens. Why didn't moscow negotiated the return of crimea upon the fall of USSR. Though putin is warmonger.



Putin is a lesser warmonger comparing to usa and nato
Putin is doing the right things for Russia to avoid a territorial containment by nato

What after Ukraine?

Belarus!


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## Luffy 500

shuttler said:


> Putin is a lesser warmonger comparing to usa and nato
> Putin is doing the right things for Russia to avoid a territorial containment by nato



Yes from the national interest POV putin is right but from a humanitarian and moral POV Ukaranians r correct for kicking out the despotic pro-russian regime. Its better to hav a divided ukaraine IMHO. Russia would never give up crimea. Its too strategically precious for them.


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## shuttler

Luffy 500 said:


> Yes from the national interest POV putin is right but from a humanitarian and moral POV Ukaranians r correct for kicking out the despotic pro-russian regime. Its better to hav a divided ukaraine IMHO. Russia would never give up crimea. Its too strategically precious for them.



Crimea's past is history now Russia is in control of it and it has an ethnic Russian majority
Ukraine was not too long ago ruled by the orange party which is pro-west
do you know what has happened to them?

Ukraine is a country walking on a thin line
You cannot afford to piss either Russia or EU off!

ps I dont regard the usa and nato are holding a higher moral or humanitarian ground over the Russians
usa and nato have their own agenda


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## Luffy 500

shuttler said:


> Crimea's past is history now Russia is in control of it and it has an ethnic Russian majority
> Ukraine is not too long ago ruled by the orange party which is pro-west
> do you know what has happened to them?
> 
> Ukraine is a country walking on a thin line
> You cannot afford to piss either Russia or EU off!



A divided ukarine without eastern russian speaking territories will be pro-EU/NATO. RUssia can keep the eastern half. But yeah due to the gas pipelines EU won't piss of russia but western ukaraine can escape from russian nose-poking.


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## BLACKEAGLE

flamer84 said:


> That's right but that's not even their biggest problem.Their problem is @vostok llike traitors.Imagine going to war and suddenly the man next to you turns to be a traitor.The flank falls and so on and it can lead to a rout,low moral.


If so, they're so screwed unless America does sth to bail Ukrain out, and even that is very unlikely.


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## shuttler

Luffy 500 said:


> A divided ukarine without eastern russian speaking territories will be pro-EU/NATO. RUssia can keep the eastern half. But yeah due to the gas pipelines EU won't piss of russia but western ukaraine can escape from russian nose-poking.



I am not seeing the Ukraine proper is to be split up unless Russians turn really aggressive then a true war between Russia + Nato will break out like I said in my post above


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## Luffy 500

shuttler said:


> What after Ukraine?
> 
> Belarus!



Belarus is already pro-russian. Btw many republics of former USSR didn't join of their own free will and were forcefully annexed before and after WII by that loon stalin. Those who despised USSR today are anti-russia eg. latavia, georgia, most central asian republics etc. Poland is very anti-russian. Crimea was tartar muslim majority before stalin did a ehtnic cleansing. While ukaraine is multi ethnic and always was a problem. There is no reason why ethnic russian shouldn't long to get back with power russia with whom they have a common culture and history while it doesn't make sense for ethnic ukaranians and other monirites to accept RUssian dictation after getting independent from USSR. Thus a divided ukaraine is better for all IMHO. Russia will still remain the dominant power in E.europe.



shuttler said:


> I am not seeing the Ukraine proper is to be split up unless Russians turn really aggressive then a true war between Russia + Nato will break out like I said in my post above



Russia is already in control of crimea. Ukaraine can be further devided (it already is) by russia without a full fledged war. Ukaraine and Nato would simply keep mum IMHO.


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## Star Wars

Reports coming in that the Ukranian Sevestapol Naval HQ is under assault by Russian forces ...unconfirmed news


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## Yeti

Russia has legit reason's to be in Crimea both on a military level and also on a personal issue with a large pro-Russian populous living in that region.


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## shuttler

Luffy 500 said:


> Belarus is already pro-russian. Btw many republics of former USSR didn't join of their own free will and were forcefully annexed before and after WII by that loon stalin. Those who despised USSR today are anti-russia eg. latavia, georgia, most central asian republics etc. Crimea was tartar muslim majority before stalin did a ehtnic cleansing. While ukaraine is multi ethnic and always was a problem. There is not reason why ethnic russian shouldn't long to get back with power russia with whom they have a common culture and history while it doesn't make sense for ethnic ukaranians and other monirites to accept RUssian dictation after  getting independent from USSR. Thus a divided ukaraine is better for all IMHO. Russia will still remain the dominant power in E.europe.
> Russia is already in control of crimea. Ukaraine can be further devided (it already is) by russia without a full fledged war. Ukaraine and Nato would simply keep mum IMHO.



I dont think Ukraine or nato would like to see eastern Ukraine to be taken over by Russia without a bloody war
So the Ukrainian fiasco will be ended up like Georgia - with a Russian flag tightly pegs in the northern part of Georgia, in Ukraine, their flag be planted in Crimea

Belarus is one of the staunchest supporter of Russia but usa and nato have plenty of cunning tricks in thelr sleeves


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## Star Wars

local Ukrainian news reporting that Russian forces are mobilizing at the Ukrainian border preparing for an invasion

BBC News - Crimea: Putin's mission accomplished

BBC News - Ukraine: UK rules out Russia trade curbs?

What Sanctions?

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## gpit

Just want to throw in one word: Ukraine is another example of failed democracy.

A country with no *consensus* on fundamental issues of the country and with too much external influence instead of its own independent core culture (in this case, for example, Ukraine should be more EU or Russian) will in general only suffer from adopting democracy.

Free of foreign influence is one of the prerequisites of being a healthy democracy.


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## Star Wars

> Ok confirmed by the heads of border control, Russian army massing in key areas along mainland eastern border.
> 
> They are massing alongside Donetsk, Kharkiv and Luhansk. Looks like a land entry into mainland can start anytime.



Local news reports ..above is quote from a friend in Ukraine

FM Davutoğlu rules out Turkish-Russian crisis over Crimea - Today's Zaman, your gateway to Turkish daily news

Turks not willing to have problems with Russia


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## Star Wars

BReaking NEWs!!! In a stunning show of Resolve Obama has Unfriended Putin on facebook

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## Oldman1

Russia Gives Ukraine Ultimatum To Surrender: REPORT

KIEV, March 3 (Reuters) - Russia's Black Sea Fleet has told Ukrainian forces in Crimea to surrender by 5 a.m. (0300 GMT) on Tuesday or face a military assault, Interfax news agency quoted a source in the Ukrainian Defence Ministry as saying.

The ultimatum, Interfax said, was issued by Alexander Vitko, the fleet's commander.

The ministry did not immediately confirm the report and there was no immediate comment by the Black Sea Fleet, which has a base in Crimea, where Russian forces are in control.

"If they do not surrender before 5 a.m. tomorrow, a real assault will be started against units and divisions of the armed forces across Crimea," the agency quoted the ministry source as saying.





Ukrainian soldiers guard a gate to their military base in the village of Perevalne, outside Simferopol, Ukraine, Sunday, March 2, 2014. Hundreds of armed men in trucks and armored vehicles surrounded a Ukrainian military base Sunday in Crimea, blocking its soldiers from leaving. (AP Photo/Ivan Sekretarev) (The Associated Press)

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## Hakan




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## ZYXW

SiCiSi said:


> Nah, doesnt matter, the Americans and its allies are cowards.
> 
> Russia will advance, Iran will go nuclear and you cant do anything about it.


I wouldn't want to live under anything but American law.... and the day the US wants to deal with it, it can effortlessly


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## Alpha1

What fight will Ukraine put up? 
Ukrainian Navy flagship takes Russia’s side – report — RT News


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## flamer84

Alpha1 said:


> What fight will Ukraine put up?
> Ukrainian Navy flagship takes Russia’s side – report — RT News



And think that some wanted Ukraine in NATO some time ago...Nice loyal Armed Forces they got over there.


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## temujin

Russia to build bridge linking Crimea..

Russia says it will build bridge to Ukraine's Crimea | smh.com.au

Annexation in full swing

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## flamer84

Brave Ukrainian soldiers unlike traitors like that admiral and our very own @vostok

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## LordTyrannus

Star Wars said:


> BReaking NEWs!!! In a stunning show of Resolve Obama has Unfriended Putin on facebook



ROFLMAO


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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> Brave Ukrainian soldiers unlike traitors like that admiral and our very own @vostok



Funny how a non Ukrainian or a Crimean is giving a certificate of who is traitor and who is not... learn the history of Ukraine

I think Putin wants Eastern Ukraine and Crimea to go through a referendum and create a new separate state which will not be under the Budapest memorandum which guarantees Ukraine's independence , Once the new independent states has been created he can reunify it back to Russia

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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Funny how a non Ukrainian or a Crimean is giving a certificate of who is traitor and who is not... learn the history of Ukraine



Funny how an indian thinks that he knows ukrainian/this region's history better than somebody living next door,faced with arguably the same dangers and whose forefather and his forefathers before him fought and died upon these lands,including today Ukraina.

Spare me your laughable lessons.

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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> Funny how an indian thinks that he knows ukrainian/this region's history better than somebody living next door,faced with arguably the same dangers and whose forefather and his forefathers before him fought and died upon these lands,including today Ukraina.
> 
> Spare me your laughable lessons.



He lives in Ukraine genius and quite clearly from his posts he knows a lot more than you ever did , This is the problems with people like you in the west .. they are quick to pass out judgments on who is traitor who is not just because of some inflated superiority complex ...


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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> He lives in Ukraine genius and quite clearly from his posts he knows a lot more than you ever did , This is the problems with people like you in the west .. they are quick to pass out judgments on who is traitor who is not just because of some inflated superiority complex ...




What West dude ? They are our biggest next door neighbour .A part of Ukraina (not small one either) was Romania only 70 years ago,i have relatives at the border,who in turn have friends and distant relatives in Ukraina.

That guy and others like him are a 5th column in Ukraina,traitors nothing more.They didn't come out to support Yanuk but as soon as they feel the support of russian power they turn their back at their country.Were where they in 1991 when they split ? 

I have no respect for traitors,much less for ones WHO TAKE A MILITARY OATH TO THEIR COUNTRY and than brake it.Scum,that's all they are !


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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> What West dude ? They are our biggest next door neighbour .A part of Ukraina (not small one either) was Romania only 70 years ago,i have relatives at the border,who in turn have friends and distant relatives in Ukraina.
> 
> That guy and others like him are a 5th column in Ukraina,traitors nothing more.They didn't come out to support Yanuk but as soon as they feel the support of russian power they turn their back at their country.Were where they in 1991 when they split ?
> 
> I have no respect for traitors,much less for ones WHO TAKE A MILITARY OATH TO THEIR COUNTRY and than brake it.Scum,that's all they are !



What gives you the right to dictate who is traitor when you are not even a Ukrainian , when you don't know who the guy is , what is back ground is and why he chose it ? Its easy to pass judgments ...

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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> What gives you the right to dictate who is traitor when you are not even a Ukrainian , when you don't know who the guy is , what is back ground is and why he chose it ? Its easy to pass judgments ...



Someone who takes an OATH OF ALLEGIANCE to a country and than brakes it is a traitor in my book and in the opinion of every sane man.Maybe you have other views,i don't.If Ukraina makes it through this even without Crimea(which i hope is the case) ,from what i hear, @vostok like traitors will be purged ruthlessly from army/police/SBU etc.


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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> Someone who takes an OATH OF ALLEGIANCE to a country and than brakes it is a traitor in my book and in the opinion of every sane man.Maybe you have other views,i don't.If Ukraina makes it through this even without Crimea(which i hope is the case) ,from what i hear, @vostok like traitors will be purged ruthlessly from army/police/SBU etc.



And what makes you think the Oath of allegiance was not forced on him after 1990 ? too bad for you vstok probably has a Russian passport and can get Russian citizenship when ever he wants ... Your verbal diarrhea of wanting to see his life destroyed will end up as wet dreams ..Russia started from Ukraine Many in Ukraine still hold allegiance to Russia . Funny when some one else is giving certificate of loyalty safely siting behind a computer ...

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## vostok

Traitor now in Ukraine is - who sided with the terrorists wwich occupied administrative buildings and staged a coup. Legal President of Ukraine openly appealed to Russia for help. Anyone who opposes this decision - a traitor. Whoever executes illegal decisions of junta - a traitor. Those who cooperate with the junta - a traitors.

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## Armstrong

Whereas I strongly oppose US Adventurism & the World Policing that they are in a habit of doing; two wrongs can't possibly make a Right therefore I can't imagine how anyone could ethically support this blatant Russian Aggression that we saw first in Georgia & now here !


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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> And what makes you think the Oath of allegiance was not forced on him after 1990 ? too bad for you vstok probably has a Russian passport and can get Russian citizenship when ever he wants ... Your verbal diarrhea of wanting to see his life destroyed will end up as wet dreams ..Russia started from Ukraine Many in Ukraine still hold allegiance to Russia . Funny when some one else is giving certificate of loyalty safely siting behind a computer ...



No..the funny thing is someone giving lessons sitting thousands of miles away and top of it disregarding every norm of honour like the oath of allegiance to a country.After this some still wonder why for example the russian minority in the Baltics is treated like second hand citizens...because they are a 5th column,waiting at every corner to backstabb their country and they need be kept in check---they did the same in 1940 in Romania -once the soviets rolled in ,they transformed from peacefull neighbours to their ethnic romanian majority to looting,killing,rampaging animals,it was a shock.But we now know who these scums are and no random dude sitting thousands of miles away will give us lectures on it.The ethic ukrainians,the poles,the baltic citizens,the finns,the czechs,the romanians know them well.Guys like vostok do what we all know they would be doing.Sickening.


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## LordTyrannus

Armstrong said:


> Whereas I strongly oppose US Adventurism & the World Policing that they are in a habit of doing; two wrongs can't possibly make a Right therefore I can't imagine how anyone could ethically support this blatant Russian Aggression that we saw first in Georgia & now here !



Georgia bombed russian military base and killed many russians. The West are aggressors. Russia only defends itself.

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## Star Wars

Armstrong said:


> Whereas I strongly oppose US Adventurism & the World Policing that they are in a habit of doing; two wrongs can't possibly make a Right therefore I can't imagine how anyone could ethically support this blatant Russian Aggression that we saw first in Georgia & now here !



Crimea and Ukraine is were Russia started, you would think a person like Putin would not want it back...

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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Whereas I strongly oppose US Adventurism & the World Policing that they are in a habit of doing; two wrongs can't possibly make a Right therefore I can't imagine how anyone could ethically support this blatant Russian Aggression that we saw first in Georgia & now here !



And what's the aggression? Russian people asked Putin for help - Putin did. Aggression - is when the U.S. without any reason bombed Iraq, Libya, Serbia. When people ask for help their compatriot, when was not killed a single person, when was not a single shot - how it can be called "aggression"?

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## Irfan Baloch

boomslang said:


> So you're cool with the nazis' and muslim haters ?


I find it distressing when my fellow Muslims qualify their argument, their liking/ disliking and their support on the bases of what is the faith of their, subject (victim or the culprit.)

now dont shoot the messenger
I think he failed to clarify his post. he is on one hand responding to the other chap that Russians are not that all holy (so blaming EU/ USA re Bangladesh is unjust) on the other hand he on the Ukrainian issue is siding with Russians.

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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Crimea and Ukraine is were Russia started, you would think a person like Putin would not want it back...



Huh??...Crimea was snatched from the ethnic tatar Crimean Khanate in the late 18th century-early 19 while Stalin deported the tatars in the 1950's changing the ethnic make up.Russia started there my a$$....

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## 500

The Ukrainian ship which fake news claimed deserted:







UA - the international sign of Ukraine.

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## Irfan Baloch

vostok said:


> And what's the aggression? Russian people asked Putin for help - Putin did. Aggression - is when the U.S. without any reason bombed Iraq, Libya, Serbia. When people ask for help their compatriot, when was not killed a single person, whae was not a single shot - how it can be called "aggression"?


now hear this..
there is news in the west that Russians were too optimistic about their support in Eastern Ukraine and their enthusiasm is fizzling out thats why Putin ordered his troops back in the Barracks


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## LordTyrannus

flamer84 said:


> Huh??...Crimea was snatched from the ethnic tatar Crimean Khanate in the late 18th century-early 19 while Stalin deported the tatars in the 1950's changing the ethnic make up.Russia started there my a$$....



What do you know about russia? EXACTLY what Western propaganda teaches you.

Reagon called Soviets as Empire ov evil..Your western leaders are childish morons.

LMAO

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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> No..the funny thing is someone giving lessons sitting thousands of miles away and top of it disregarding every norm of honour like the oath of allegiance to a country.After this some still wonder why for example the russian minority in the Baltics is treated like second hand citizens...because they are a 5th column,waiting at every corner to backstabb their country and they need be kept in check---they did the same in 1940 in Romania -once the soviets rolled in ,they transformed from peacefull neighbours to their ethnic romanian majority to looting,killing,rampaging animals,it was a shock.But we now know who these scums are and no random dude sitting thousands of miles away will give us lectures on it.The ethic ukrainians,the poles,the baltic citizens,the finns,the czechs,the romanians know them well.Guys like vostok do what we all know they would be doing.Sickening.



Its an open forum , if you don't like my opinions then put me on ignore list i.e if you cannot debate .. If he speaks Russian , if his ancestry is Russian , if his heart is Russian then he is Russian..quite simple A bunch of words "Oath of allegiance" does not change that ...

It sounds like you have an ethnic hate for Russians .. the only thing sickening is your rather unfortunate attitude on person you have no clue about other than being hurt from his posts . Don't like his opinion ?...call him a traitor , call him names, personally attack him, wish his life destroyed....seriously wtf is wrong with you.... have some iota of empathy.. you sound like a lunatic..

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## Armstrong

vostok said:


> And what's the aggression? Russian people asked Putin for help - Putin did. Aggression - is when the U.S. without any reason bombed Iraq, Libya, Serbia. When people ask for help their compatriot, when was not killed a single person, when was not a single shot - how it can be called "aggression"?


 
Crimea is an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine - You can't occupy the territory of another Sovereign Country just like that ? 

And if Russia is going to care for Russians elsewhere than by that logic it should give freedom to all Non-Russians areas that form part of the Russian Federation when those areas ask for Independence on the basis of being 'Not Russians' ! 

This is nothing more than hypocrisy in the guise of Russian Expansionism - a relic from the Soviet Era !


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## Star Wars

Irfan Baloch said:


> now hear this..
> there is news in the west that Russians were too optimistic about their support in Eastern Ukraine and their enthusiasm is fizzling out thats why Putin ordered his troops back in the Barracks



It was a military exercise which was scheduled to be ended today ,a lot of dis info is coming out from pro west media..


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## Irfan Baloch

Star Wars said:


> Crimea and Ukraine is were Russia started, you would think a person like Putin would not want it back...


Putin is smart he is not ruthless like Sadam
he will be banking on the ethnic Russians in Ukraine 
he knows that USA will give him wide berth and wont come guns blazing like it does on 3rd word countries with 3rd rate armies. but there are consequences economic ones.

whatever the result of this conflict
I say

Cold war is now officially resumed. I somehow find myself siding with Russia .. this unipolar world has really hurt many countries and made the Yanks go too easy on their triggers.

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## vostok

Irfan Baloch said:


> now hear this..
> there is news in the west that Russians were too optimistic about their support in Eastern Ukraine and their enthusiasm is fizzling out thats why Putin ordered his troops back in the Barracks


Russian troops were nowhere except Crimea. Putin openly warned the West and junta which seized power - in the case of aggression against the Russian people, he reserves the right to send troops. It is his sacred right to defend compatriots - it can not be deprived from Putin by any Western leader. Even God does not take away this sacred right.
Besides, the junta began to reconsider it russophobian position - they realized that the West uses them and will not defend them.


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## LordTyrannus

Calm down people!

Russia is here to save you!

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## Star Wars

Irfan Baloch said:


> Putin is smart he is not ruthless like Sadam
> he will be banking on the ethnic Russians in Ukraine
> he knows that USA will give him wide berth and wont come guns blazing like it does on 3rd word countries with 3rd rate armies. but there are consequences economic ones.
> 
> whatever the result of this conflict
> I say
> 
> Cold war is now officially resumed. I somehow find myself siding with Russia .. this unipolar world has really hurt many countries and made the Yanks go too easy on their triggers.



Thats what i said Earlier , Ukraine has a Budapest memorandum which allows Ukraine to be an independent nation , But if you start riling up the Pro Russian east to secede from Ukraine and form an independent state , then the Budapest Memorandum is invalid and Russia can gobble up / annex the parts of Eastern Ukraine , or what ever he wants..


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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Its an open forum , if you don't like my opinions then put me on ignore list i.e if you cannot debate .. If he speaks Russian , if his ancestry is Russian , if his heart is Russian then he is Russian..quite simple A bunch of words "Oath of allegiance" does not change that ...
> 
> It sounds like you have an ethnic hate for Russians .. the only thing sickening is your rather unfortunate attitude on person you have no clue about other than being hurt from his posts . Don't like his opinion ?...call him a traitor , call him names, personally attack him, wish his life destroyed....seriously wtf is wrong with you.... have some iota of empathy.. you sound like a lunatic..



LOL,traitors of their country are traitors to their country and they're called just that.

Are you now complaining for me not agreeing to your post ? I've only answered in the same "it is funny how...,etc" manner you've adressed me.It is you sitting thousands of miles away cheering for a mad man putting the lives of millions from a score of East European nations in danger,taking the high ground just because the "West is evil" without a iota of knowledge about this region,its past and future ramifications.And that because "Russia was good to India" which might be true but according to you "EE be damned for that".Well,we,eastern europeans beg to differ,sry if you don't like it and start bitching about by throwing ridiculous words as "lunatic"


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## Armstrong

Star Wars said:


> Crimea and Ukraine is were Russia started, you would think a person like Putin would not want it back...


 
Whether he does or whether he doesn't is irrelevant because many a men have wanted many things that they cannot have & Russia would hold any moral high ground on this had they not annexed quite a few Non-Russian Areas into the Russian Federation over the centuries themselves !

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## Irfan Baloch

vostok said:


> Russian troops were nowhere except Crimea. Putin openly warned the West and junta seized power - in the case of aggression against the Russian people, he reserves the right to send troops. It is his sacred right to defend compatriots - it can not be deprived from Putin by any Western leader. Even God does not take away this sacred right.
> Besides, the junta began to reconsider their position - they realized that the West uses them and will not defend them.


the British did that back in the 80s on Falklands war when they sent their armada in the name of protecting the Islanders who wanted to remain part of Britain.
by that definition Putin is on the right side.

in the end I hope that Putin doesnt blink and back down because that will be a disaster and make the West far more ruthless and aggressive and they would go ahead with open invasion of Syria because covert war is not working for them and might invade Iran as well.
a stronger and more powerful Russia might put a leash on the West that seems to keen to engage in military conflict where ever and whenever it pleases these days and we have suffered because of that..

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## Hakan

Crimean Tatars may 'take up arms' if Russia invades | Europe | Worldbulletin News

*"If we need to use violence to counteract the invaders, we will do this. The Crimean Tatar units, which are currently being prepared, are ready for war," Crimean Tatar representative Mustafa Jemilev reportedly said.*


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## LaBong

Armstrong said:


> Crimea is an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine - *You can't occupy the territory of another Sovereign Country just like that ?*



Eh? USA and NATO do that every now and then.

I'm not a fan of Putin, however western block orchestrated this crisis when they helped to topple a democratically elected govt with the help of protestors even after the President signed a truce and called for early election, just because he cancelled a trade deal. And then went to power an unelected oligarch who stripped Russian of it's official language status. Putin got a bloody nose in geo-political war and returned the favour militarily.

And there's not much west can do here anyway against the injured bear. All these talks of sanctions are just bullcrap considering western Europe wouldn't like to be gas starved for rest of the winter.

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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Crimea is an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine - You can't occupy the territory of another Sovereign Country just like that ?
> 
> And if Russia is going to care for Russians elsewhere than by that logic it should give freedom to all Non-Russians areas that form part of the Russian Federation when those areas ask for Independence on the basis of being 'Not Russians' !
> 
> This is nothing more than hypocrisy in the guise of Russian Expansionism - a relic from the Soviet Era !


The Soviet Union and the Russian Empire were also internationally recognized states. Why did the same international community recognized their decay and those "state" that came out?
@Irfan Baloch sorry mate I quoted your post by mistake.

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## Armstrong

LaBong said:


> Eh? USA and NATO do that every now and then.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Putin, however western block orchestrated this crisis when they helped to topple a democratically elected govt with the help of protestors even after the President signed a truce, just because he cancelled a trade deal. Putin got a bloody nose in geo-political war and returned the favour militarily.
> 
> And there's not much west can do here anyway against the injured bear.


 
Like I said a few pages back - I don't condone American Adventurism but this is nothing more than Russian Expansionism either ! 

I don't know whether they did or they didn't orchestrate this but the Government is gone....the interim Government is here & the succeeding elections would've established once & for all where the majority of Ukraine stands !


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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> LOL,traitors of their country are traitors to their country and they're called just that.
> 
> Are you now complaining for me not agreeing to your post ? I've only answered in the same "it is funny how...,etc" manner you've adressed me.It is you sitting thousands of miles away cheering for a mad man putting the lives of millions from a score of East European nations in danger,taking the high ground just because the "West is evil" without a iota of knowledge about this region,its past and future ramifications.And that because "Russia was good to India" which might be true but according to you "EE be damned for that".Well,we,eastern europeans beg to differ,sry if you don't like it and start bitching about by throwing ridiculous words as "lunatic"



Now the only thing i find wrong with you is the Barrage of personal attacks that you can make against a person just because he has an opinion which is contrary to yours. The nonsense that your sprout makes you look like an extremist.. Learn to talk to people , people have different opinions , hoping for their harm just because he thinks differently makes you as much as a lunatic as those Alquida /Taliban folks ....



Armstrong said:


> Like I said a few pages back - I don't condone American Adventurism but this is nothing more than Russian Expansionism either !
> 
> I don't know whether they did or they didn't orchestrate this but the Government is gone....the interim Government is here & the succeeding elections would've established once & for all where the majority of Ukraine stands !



You think Russia would tolerate a Pro EU/west govt. in its doorstep considering America wanted to make a missile base there ? Nop..not at all..... Russia is looking after their interests , The whole thing was started by the west Russia has no option but to respond in kind... they can't sit quietly ...


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## LordTyrannus

Kaan said:


> *"If we need to use violence to counteract the invaders, we will do this. The Crimean Tatar units, which are currently being prepared, are ready for war," Crimean Tatar representative Mustafa Jemilev reportedly said.*



Islamist jihadists always takes imperialist side. Russia needs to deport them back to torkey or wherever they come from.


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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Like I said a few pages back - I don't condone American Adventurism but this is nothing more than Russian Expansionism either !
> 
> I don't know whether they did or they didn't orchestrate this but the Government is gone....the interim Government is here & the succeeding elections would've established once & for all where the majority of Ukraine stands !


Tell me, do you keep in the right of Pakistan to defend Kashmiris?

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## Armstrong

vostok said:


> The Soviet Union and the Russian Empire were also internationally recognized states. Why did the same international community recognized their decay and those "state" that came out?


 
Because they did so as per 'International Law' - A mutually agreed upon legal contract between sovereign states that establishes how they would or would not behave with respect to the rest of the world ! 

Because otherwise you've got anarchy & every country going about doing whatever they please without anything to reign them in; if Russia thought she had a case against Ukraine she should've proceeded accordingly not like this....not through military interventionism ! 

Also by that logic every Non-Russian Area attached to Russia could break away, if they could & then claim 'They didn't do anything wrong' ! 

I'm no a Legal Expert of any kind but I'm sure @flamer84 is more than competent to impress upon us the legality or illegality of the Russian Invasion in the light of International Law !


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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Now the only thing i find wrong with you is the Barrage of personal attacks that you can make against a person just because he has an opinion which is contrary to yours. The nonsense that your sprout makes you look like an extremist.. Learn to talk to people , people have different opinions , hoping for their harm just because he thinks differently makes you as much as a lunatic as those Alquida /Taliban folks ....



Nice comparison.You're a taliban for disliking traitors who actively aid foreign forces to dismantle their country.


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## Irfan Baloch

vostok said:


> The Soviet Union and the Russian Empire were also internationally recognized states. Why did the same international community recognized their decay and those "state" that came out?


"international community / the civilized world " is mainly described by America and its Western European allies they decide what is right and wrong , when it suits them they back the dictators and apartheid monarchies and when it suits them they preach democracy. their Nobel prize for a warmongering president is just another joke. 

I dont loose any sleep over what the "international community" (read America and Britain) moral stand point is their recognition means jack all. its might is right the universal law of nature.
I am not a warmonger I want peace in Ukraine and I hope whatever happens, it is in the best interest of the people of that country without the expense of any ethnicity.

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## Armstrong

vostok said:


> Tell me, do you keep in the right of Pakistan to defend Kashmiris?


 
Yes we do & I am an ethnic Kashmiri myself ! 

However we proceeded as per 'International Law' & took the matter before the United Nations where it was declared a Disputed Territory between two sovereign states & recognized the Kashmiri Right of Self-Determination; unfortunately we do not posses the means to force India's hand nor they to force ours & each side maintains that they are in the 'right' on the Kashmir Issue & so it lingers on !


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## Hakan

LordTyrannus said:


> Islamist jihadists always takes imperialist side. Russia needs to deport them back to torkey or wherever they come from.


Thats why they will fight because of people with your mentality.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@LaBong this goes into the legal details.

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## LaBong

Armstrong said:


> Like I said a few pages back - I don't condone American Adventurism but this is nothing more than Russian Expansionism either !
> 
> I don't know whether they did or they didn't orchestrate this but the Government is gone....the interim Government is here & the succeeding elections would've established once & for all where the majority of Ukraine stands !



How is the givt gone, just because the protestors managed to occupy Kiev? Russia can say the govt is not gone but toppled by bunch of armed thugs and elected President of Ukrain himself asked for help. The interim government itself is illegitimate and clearly not supported by a large population of Ukraine and their first actions in power speaks volume about their ideology.

If tomorrow Talibans somehow managed to topple Govt of Pakistan and barricaded Islamabad and declared themselves as interim govt, would you just wait for the next election?

In fact election was to be held as early as December as agreed in a truce among ousted President of Ukraine and western powers.



Armstrong said:


> Yes we do & I am an ethnic Kashmiri myself !
> 
> However we proceeded as per 'International Law' & took the matter before the United Nations where it was declared a Disputed Territory between two sovereign states & recognized the Kashmiri Right of Self-Determination; unfortunately we do not posses the means to force India's hand nor they to force ours & each side maintains that they are in the 'right' on the Kashmir Issue & so it lingers on !



Not true. You actually fought 4 wars against India starting from the very inception of our countries at 47. You only went to UN after being routed by Indian Army at 47's war.

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## flamer84

Armstrong said:


> I'm no a Legal Expert of any kind but I'm sure @flamer84 is more than competent to impress upon us the legality or illegality of the Russian Invasion in the light of International Law !



There's nothing legal about it.Yanuk was constitutionally dismissed by by Parliament,an interim govern was put in place.

Russia argues that it's there to protect russian ethnics in Crimea.Protect from what ? There was no violence against them.Russia says it would have been.Well,on this "strong legal basis" i say we invade Belgium because i foresee in my geopolitical crystal ball future ethnic violence against french speakers.

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## Irfan Baloch

LaBong said:


> Eh? USA and NATO do that every now and then.
> 
> I'm not a fan of Putin, however western block orchestrated this crisis when they helped to topple a democratically elected govt with the help of protestors even after the President signed a truce and called for early election, just because he cancelled a trade deal. And then went to power an unelected oligarch who stripped Russian of it's official language status. Putin got a bloody nose in geo-political war and returned the favour militarily.
> 
> And there's not much west can do here anyway against the injured bear. All these talks of sanctions are just bullcrap considering western Europe wouldn't like to be gas starved for rest of the winter.


totally agreed

reminds me of that leaked call of the Americans where Victoria Nuland (US diplomat says "Fuc the EU")
they are pretty much deep in creating the conflict here and Putin has responded

now if that response was what the Americans actually anticipated and wanted or not is not clear to me
only time will tell

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## Ayush

hey @Marshmallow what's your stand on this whole ukraine russia spat?

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## Armstrong

Star Wars said:


> You think Russia would tolerate a Pro EU/west govt. in its doorstep considering America wanted to make a missile base there ? Nop..not at all..... Russia is looking after their interests , The whole thing was started by the west Russia has no option but to respond in kind... they can't sit quietly ...


 
How do they propose to solve this now ? 

Through an Invasion of Ukrainian Sovereign Land ? 

How would that help ? When even those Ukrainians who were probably sitting on the 'fence' on this one would be anything but Pro-Russia after the Invasion of their Country ! 

Russia should've built fraternal ties with Ukraine instead of creating problems for it or aggressively posturing against it because this isn't the first time Russia has interfered in the Internal Affairs of Ukraine !

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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Because they did so as per 'International Law' - A mutually agreed upon legal contract between sovereign states that establishes how they would or would not behave with respect to the rest of the world !
> 
> Because otherwise you've got anarchy & every country going about doing whatever they please without anything to reign them in; if Russia thought she had a case against Ukraine she should've proceeded accordingly not like this....not through military interventionism !
> 
> Also by that logic every Non-Russian Area attached to Russia could break away, if they could & then claim 'They didn't do anything wrong' !
> 
> I'm no a Legal Expert of any kind but I'm sure @flamer84 is more than competent to impress upon us the legality or illegality of the Russian Invasion in the light of International Law !


All the decisions that were taken in 1917 and 1991 - were taken with law mistakes. By the law of the Russian Empire territories did not have any rights to leave Impire. By the law of USSR republics had that right - but the USSR was divided without complying with the necessary formalities. The main thing at the time was the West to recognize the collapse - was it legitimate or not nobody cared .
Sooner or later, historians and lawyers will evaluate the events and justice will be restored .
Russia has the right to protect its citizens and it's compatriots. Especially in those regions where the Russian majority.


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## Marshmallow

Ayush said:


> hey @Marshmallow what's your stand on this whole ukraine russia spat?


which spat?

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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Yes we do & I am an ethnic Kashmiri myself !
> 
> However we proceeded as per 'International Law' & took the matter before the United Nations where it was declared a Disputed Territory between two sovereign states & recognized the Kashmiri Right of Self-Determination; unfortunately we do not posses the means to force India's hand nor they to force ours & each side maintains that they are in the 'right' on the Kashmir Issue & so it lingers on !


If you recognize the right of Pakistani to defend Kashmiris - why not recognize Russia's right to defend Russian?

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## Armstrong

LaBong said:


> How is the givt gone, just because the protestors managed to occupy Kiev? Russia can say the govt is not gone but toppled by bunch of armed thugs and elected President of Ukrain himself asked for help. The interim government itself is illegitimate and clearly not supported by a large population of Ukraine and their first actions in power speaks volume about their ideology.
> 
> If tomorrow Talibans somehow managed to topple Govt of Pakistan and barricaded Islamabad and declared themselves as interim govt, would you just wait for the next election?
> 
> In fact election was to be held as early as December as agreed in a truce among ousted President of Ukraine and western powers.



The Parliament of Ukraine dismissed him after his Anti-Protest Laws ! 

If the Taliban can managed to get elected than they are more than welcome to gather support & dismiss the Parliament in a constitutional manner ! 



LaBong said:


> Not true. You actually fought 4 wars against India starting from the very inception of our countries at 47. You only went to UN after being routed by Indian Army at 47's war.


 
Not really besides you went to the UN in the December of '48 - We did not !



vostok said:


> If you recognize the right of Pakistani to defend Kashmiris - why not recognize Russia's right to defend Russian?


 
Because Crimea is not a disputed territory - its an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine; you could always go to International Court of Justice or Arbitration (whichever is more appropriate) to deal with the issue if you think you've got a strong case !

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## Star Wars

Armstrong said:


> How do they propose to solve this now ?
> 
> Through an Invasion of Ukrainian Sovereign Land ?
> 
> How would that help ? When even those Ukrainians who were probably sitting on the 'fence' on this one would be anything but Pro-Russia after the Invasion of their Country !
> 
> Russia should've built fraternal ties with Ukraine instead of creating problems for it or aggressively posturing against it because this isn't the first time Russia has interfered in the Internal Affairs of Ukraine !



Its not an invasion as not a single bullet has been fired , 
The Autonomous Crimean P.M asked for Russia's help after which Russia responded in contrary to "Russian declared war" claims ..
As i said , other regions like Donestk and 3 other regions in Ukraine are looking for Autonomy... 
A referendum will be held in which case they can either separate or stay with Ukraine...
Once a referendum is held , the new seceded territories will no longer be under the Budapest memorandum . Then Putin can either join them back into the empire as an Autonomous region or do something else..

Atleast thats what i expect ..there wont be a full scale military invasion ...Maybe Russians moving in after the succession and the new Leaders of Autonomous regions asks Moscow for help

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## Irfan Baloch

Armstrong said:


> *Russia should've built fraternal ties with Ukraine instead of creating problems for it* or aggressively posturing against it because this isn't the first time Russia has interfered in the Internal Affairs of Ukraine !


I agree
but check this video out in the link below where the leaked conversation clearly shows that Americans are grooming the opposition that staged the coup and overthrew the elected president.

‘**** the EU’: US diplomat Victoria Nuland's phonecall leaked - video | World news | theguardian.com

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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> How do they propose to solve this now ?
> 
> Through an Invasion of Ukrainian Sovereign Land ?
> 
> How would that help ? When even those Ukrainians who were probably sitting on the 'fence' on this one would be anything but Pro-Russia after the Invasion of their Country !
> 
> Russia should've built fraternal ties with Ukraine instead of creating problems for it or aggressively posturing against it because this isn't the first time Russia has interfered in the Internal Affairs of Ukraine !


This is not Russia who made coup after Ukraine refused to sign an association with the EU. West did coup d'etat, which resulted in bloodshed. 
Russian Ukraine and Western Ukraine lived in peace for 23 years. Why they started killing people? Why could not wait one year and choose a new Ppresident? They started this war. Not us.

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## SirHatesALot

No war please

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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> Its not an invasion as not a single bullet has been fired ,
> The Autonomous Crimean P.M asked for Russia's help after which Russia responded in contrary to "Russian declared war" claims ..
> As i said , other regions like Donestk and 3 other regions in Ukraine are looking for Autonomy...
> A referendum will be held in which case they can either separate or stay with Ukraine...
> Once a referendum is held , the new seceded territories will no longer be under the Budapest memorandum . Then Putin can either join them back into the empire as an Autonomous region or do something else..
> 
> Atleast thats what i expect ..there wont be a full scale military invasion ...Maybe Russians moving in after the succession and the new Leaders of Autonomous regions asks Moscow for help



Yesterday you were cheering for a full on invasion of Eastern Ukraine,now you hope for a peacefull resolution.Glad you had a change of heart.


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## vostok

Armstrong said:


> Because Crimea is not a disputed territory - its an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine; you could always go to International Court of Justice or Arbitration (whichever is more appropriate) to deal with the issue if you think you've got a strong case !


So what? Yesterday it was not disputed territory - and tomorrow will be. And until the court decision here shoould die people? Russia stopped the actions of extremists and terrorists - and inhabitants of Crimea is grateful to Russia. Otherwise, there would be blood spilled 100 times more than in Kiev.
Crimea - an autonomous republic with its own constitution. Crimean authorities operate under their laws. Especially since they have this right after in Kiev was a coup d'etat and no legal authority in Ukraine.

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## flamer84

Irfan Baloch said:


> I agree
> but check this video out in the link below where the leaked conversation clearly shows that Americans are grooming the opposition that staged the coup and overthrew the elected president.
> 
> ‘**** the EU’: US diplomat Victoria Nuland's phonecall leaked - video | World news | theguardian.com



On top of this the Kosovo precedent give russians the momemtum now.The West reaps what it sows but unfortunately it's not them who suffer in the long term,they just scratch a defeat and move on to other opportunities.

Altough Kosovo has some differences.

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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> Yesterday you were cheering for a full on invasion of Eastern Ukraine,now you hope for a peacefull resolution.Glad you had a change of heart.



This is my assessment of what will happen . besides why don't you link my previous post where i wanted an "invasion" ...

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## LaBong

> The Parliament of Ukraine dismissed him after his Anti-Protest Laws !


Who dismissed it and by which legitimacy? Armed gunmen can dismiss parliament but that doesn't give them any legitimacy. 


> *If the Taliban can managed to get elected *than they are more than welcome to gather support & dismiss the Parliament in a constitutional manner !



Wrong analogy, current junta which is in power of kiev wasn't elected. They just overrun existing elected govt and is as illegitimate as it goes by the standard of democracy totting west. 



> Not really besides you went to the UN in the December of '48 - We did not !



The point is, you attacked Kashmir without going to UN first and only went to UN when you wasn't able capture Indian part of militarily. UN and no UN you kept whatever you got in the first months of the war.

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## Irfan Baloch

vostok said:


> If you recognize the right of Pakistani to defend Kashmiris - why not recognize Russia's right to defend Russian?


now that the fascist Nazis have shown their ugly face in the riots in Ukraine.. the west is now having second thoughts

how baffling it is to see Neo-Nazi signs in a place that suffered too much from the Nazis? clearly shows that the West pampered them willingly or unknowingly.

in the given circumstances I find very little room to blame Putin. 
the absurd and arrogant behaviour of the fascist thugs we have seen on so many videos is only justifying Putin's invasion whether we like it or not

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## Star Wars

> ]From what I have seen or heard all this while inside Ukraine and monitoring news from both side of the borders, it is my humble opinion that we will have eastern Ukraine taken over by 'self defence forces' soon. And Crimea repeated over again.



this is a quote from one of my friends in Ukraine... btw...those troops inside Crimea are officially "self defense forces" just to clarify


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## Marshmallow

Armstrong said:


> The Parliament of Ukraine dismissed him after his Anti-Protest Laws !
> 
> If the Taliban can managed to get elected than they are more than welcome to gather support & dismiss the Parliament in a constitutional manner !
> 
> 
> 
> Not really besides you went to the UN in the December of '48 - We did not !
> 
> 
> 
> Because Crimea is not a disputed territory - its an Internationally Recognized part of Ukraine; you could always go to International Court of Justice or Arbitration (whichever is more appropriate) to deal with the issue if you think you've got a strong case !


why does russia want to attack UKrain?

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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> This is my assessment of what will happen . besides why don't you link my previous post where i wanted an "invasion" ...



Ukraine Prepares For War. Troops on High Alert | Page 48

You were pretty jolly about it,weren't you ?


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## Star Wars

flamer84 said:


> Ukraine Prepares For War. Troops on High Alert | Page 48
> 
> You were pretty jolly about it,weren't you ?



I was laughing at certain members who claimed EU was going to back sanctions..why don't you check the what i wrote



Marshmallow said:


> why does russia want to attack UKrain?



Ukraine is were Russia started, and Putin being former KGB wants his Russian Empire back ...
This all seems well planned , taking over a nation without firing a single bullet at the Ukr Military or any Collateral civilian causalities..If this succeeds then this will be one of a kind invasion without really invading..Besides a PRO EU/American Ukrainian is very bad news for Russia for their own security ...

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## Irfan Baloch

Marshmallow said:


> why does russia want to attack UKrain?


its not attacking Ukriane
it already had 26,000 troops stationed in Ukriane as a part of the treaty and actually pays Ukraine for their presence there

what Putin has recently sent (according to Russian perspective) is for the protection of its ethnic Russian population.
Russia is protecting its national interests and his citizens. it is saying it has not invaded Ukraine and recognises Ukraine

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## Star Wars

> Ukraine on the Brink | Washington Free Beacon
> 
> 
> *Border troops reported Russian forces massing near borders in the Kharkiv, Luhansk, and Donetsk regions.*
> 
> In Kiev, Ukrainian Foreign Ministry spokesman Yevhen Perebiynis said the massing of Russian forces near Ukraine’s eastern border appeared to be preparation for a military invasion, Ukraine’s Unian news agency reported.








> *Expected invasion of our eastern cities - Lutsenko Former Interior Minister*






> No faith Putin's statement about the end of" military exercises "- imperial itch just moved into a different phase. Expected Wednesday mass invasions of our eastern cities. Layout - the repetition of the Crimean scenario: capturing of administrative buildings or municipalities and then request for protection fro. the Kremlin. It depends on each of us, "- he wrote in his blog on the "Ukrainian Truth" . In addition, ex-official urged residents of the eastern regions, in particular, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kharkiv, Mykolaiv, Kherson, Zaporozhye, Dnepropetrovsk, Simferopol, Odessa exit March 5 at anti-war rallies. "We have to deserve even regain their independence," - he added.



looks like its not over yet..i just hope there is no loss of life

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## Jf Thunder

BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF RUSSIA UKRAINE

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## Falcon29

Turkey scrambles jets after Russian plane flies near Black Sea coast - Israel News, Ynetnews

The Turkish Air Force scrambled eight F-16 fighter jets after a Russian surveillance plane flew parallel along its Black Sea coast, the military said on Tuesday, amid increased tensions between Russia and the West over Ukraine.

...........

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## Irfan Baloch

Obama: there will be costs for Russian Aggression!!

Putin: come again?

Obama: we will kick you out of G8


Putin: shove it

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## flamer84

Star Wars said:


> looks like its not over yet..i just hope there is no loss of life



If the agitators in the Eastern regions continue fanning the flames they will have pretext to invade.This could even be the actual plan.


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## Star Wars

Ukraine hit by cyberattacks: head of Ukraine security service| Reuters




> Ukraine's telecommunications system has come under attack, with equipment installed in Russian-controlled Crimea used to interfere with the mobile phones of members of parliament, the head of Ukraine's SBU security service said on Tuesday.





Georgia was hit by Cyber attacks before Russian invasion too

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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> Whereas I strongly oppose US Adventurism & the World Policing that they are in a habit of doing; two wrongs can't possibly make a Right therefore I can't imagine how anyone could ethically support this blatant Russian Aggression that we saw first in Georgia & now here !



Brother, it was Georgia that attacked Russia first, even the West says that.

And it was the West who started it here again, by using pro-Western thugs to topple the democratically elected government of the Ukraine. Russia wants stability, it was the West who changed the status quo by meddling in Russia's turf, without provocation.

Those fascist pro-Western thugs in Western Ukraine did not ask for the opinions of Eastern Ukrainians, and Southern Ukrainians, who are pro-Russian.

They did not wait for elections, and completely ignored the Eastern and Southern Ukrainians as a part of their country... they just violently threw out the Government for their own benefit, not for the benefit of Eastern and Southern Ukrainians.

Given this, and the fact that they were historically a part of Russia, you can see why they are raising Russian flags all over Eastern and Southern Ukraine.

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## LordTyrannus

Hazzy997 said:


> The Turkish Air Force scrambled eight F-16 fighter jets after a Russian surveillance plane flew parallel along its Black Sea coast, the military said on Tuesday, amid increased tensions between Russia and the West over Ukraine.
> 
> ...........



Turkeys shiting in their pants.


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## Indos

Genesis said:


> I know you are trying to make fun of our carrier, but the fact of the matter is this, only China and US had the ability to put that thing into action.
> 
> IF you know much of restoring vintage cars, you would know how much work it is than to fix a new car.



If Muslim nation get united....we don't need any aircraft carrier...just put many military weapon on the closest Muslim nation within the conflict zone.......we can make oil price jump in a second....and we have so many brave men in any Muslim country ready to fight and die. We are the one who really can put anything into action.


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## Irfan Baloch

Indos said:


> I*f Muslim nation get united....we don't *need any aircraft carrier...just put many military weapon on the closest Muslim nation within the conflict zone.......we can make oil price jump in a second....and we have so many brave men in any Muslim country ready to fight and die. We are the one who really can put anything into action.



for god sake 
give your Islamic Umah a rest
why does it have to come over every where?

@Armstrong 
USA is backing the kind of people that are extreme right wings, far right, ultra fascist, Neo Nazi paramilitaries

nothing new here
violent Islamic jihadists were used in Lybia and Syria in Lybia the Americans messed up the country had their own Ambassador burnt alive and left the country to Al Qaeda and in Syria they supported cannibals, butchers & rapists.. the ultimate goal was to
to shun afterwords but this gambit failed and like Iraq, Lybia and Syria are now safe heavens of American sworn enemies.

in Ukriane, as the leaked phone covnersation shows, the Americans are follwing a all or nothing strategy backing a radical, Neo Nazi group which will further polarize the situation. with the Putins agressive response, the Americans are only left with rehtoric and rants and threatening Putin with "costs", (most likely expulsion from G8) 

in case some one is getting butt hurt & having difficulty in believing what I am saying then I will only refer to two main points which the new thugish regime has implimented 


removal of the ban on nazi symbolism
revoking rights of russian speakers

now process thatand then cry me a river over Putin's response.
bloody hypocacy of the "civilized world".

by the way not sure why thisreminds me of "off topic" song

"Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran, Bomb Iran"

who sings and says that?

Putin?

no, "civilized" American leaders.

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## Indos

Irfan Baloch said:


> for god sake
> give your Islamic Umah a rest
> why does it have to come over every where?


 
No one can boast in this world while Muslim nations are still exist. Being a free state is already a good step for Muslim nations. It makes us much easier to go forward into the next step.


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## Irfan Baloch

Indos said:


> No one can boast in this world while Muslim nations are still exist. Being a free state is already a good step for Muslim nations. It makes us much easier to go forward into the next step.


thank you for your off topic and out of context post

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## Developereo

Indos said:


> No one can boast in this world while Muslim nations are still exist. Being a free state is already a good step for Muslim nations. It makes us much easier to go forward into the next step.



Bro, Muslim nations are not going to unite. I will put more money on US/Russia uniting than Muslim nations uniting.

You are better off working to make Indonesia strong by itself instead of wasting time wishing for Muslim unity.

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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> Turkeys shiting in their pants.


Not really, Turkey doesnt see Russia as a threat, Russia has no balls to attack a NATO country.

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## vostok

xenon54 said:


> Not really, Turkey doesnt see Russia as a threat, Russia has no balls to attack a NATO country.


As I see - Turkey also has bills to America,cause U.S. unceremoniously interfere in the internal affairs of Turkey. At this time, the position of Turkey and Russia may become closer.

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## Irfan Baloch

vostok said:


> As I see - Turkey also has bills to America,cause U.S. unceremoniously interfere in the internal affairs of Turkey. At this time, the position of Turkey and Russia may become closer.


so we are talking Ukriane crises and Putin's response and first some one throws the Muslim thing and then Tukey has become the subject of discussion
clearly we have run out of anything valuable to add on topic
so lets talk Donald Duck now

Muslim Unified aircraft carrier fleet
Turkey
Donald Duck
KFC
and evil Klingons

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## Star Wars

What a Russian Invasion of Eastern Ukraine Would Look Like | TIME.com

Russian soldiers near the Ukrainian military base in Bakhchysaray, Ukraine, March 3, 2014.

*Judging by reports of Russian troops pouring into the Crimean Peninsula, stories of tense standoffs, sweeping proclamations and alleged deadlines for surrender, the crisis in Crimea is flirting dangerously close to a full scale war*. As of Monday evening, there wasn’t a single report of shots fired, but in the history of warfare, past restraint has been a terrible predictor of future action. “War never breaks out wholly unexpectedly, nor can it be spread instantaneously,” famed military theorist Cal von Clausewitz wrote in the early 19th century. “Yet…as soon as preparations for a war begin,” he continued, “the world of reality takes over from the world of abstract thought.”

The reality is grim. It is clear that Russia sees the crisis differently than much of the rest of the world. ”The narrative about this in Russia is about protection of the ethnic Russians and the Russian-speaking population,” says Olga Oliker, senior international policy analyst for the Rand Corporation. “It is about stabilizing a country in chaos. It is about a country where, from the Russian perspective, a legally elected president has been deposed by a mob.”

Under those pretenses, Russian troops set about occupying Crimea and now no one knows what will happen next. “If [Russian President Vladimir Putin] is going to occupy a chunk of Ukraine, Crimea would be easier than eastern Ukraine,” Oliker says. The peninsula is self-contained and strategically vital, and the population is predominantly pro-Russian, making it a natural place to halt military operations and press for political gains. But Putin may press further into Ukraine. “If Russia were to actually push further into the country – into central and west Ukraine – it would face a very, very ugly occupation very quickly,” Oliker says. “Over time, an occupation of east Ukraine would also turn ugly.”

Retired U.S. Admiral James Stavridis, the former supreme allied commander of NATO, now the dean of the Fletcher School at Tufts University, wrote a piece in Foreign Policy arguing that NATO needs to develop plans to react to a full-scale invasion of Ukraine and support the ill-prepared Ukrainian military. “Like a chess player leaning forward, [Putin's] moves are sweeping the board,” Stavridis writes.

Based on the early reports, it’s difficult to detail the composition of Russian forces in Crimea. When troops first appeared, sealing off roads and taking vital airports, they wore uniforms without insignia, but they were well-equipped and quickly swept across the countryside. Ukraine’s envoy at the U.N. claimed on Monday that there were 16,000 Russian troops deployed in Crimea. Over the weekend, Russia conducted military drills near the Ukrainian border with a reported 150,000 troops. According to Russian media, the exercises involved more than 90 aircraft, 120 helicopters, 880 tanks and 80 naval vessels. Mechanized infantry and highly-trained paratroopers conducted maneuvers. “Exercises only show you so much, and they’re almost always reported on afterwards as a tremendous success,” Oliker says. Even taken skeptically, the reports indicate that Russia has enough troops and firepower to easily invade eastern Ukraine.

*If Russia continues the invasion, troops will most likely surround Ukrainian garrisons and demand the Ukrainians disarm.* Then, there are two likely scenarios. *The first is that one side or the other starts shooting, precipitating a full scale war. By most accounts, when Russia invaded Georgia in 2008, the Georgian military made the first move, but the Russians were primed for a provocation.*

A similar episode is possible in Ukraine, but *Russian troops will be moving to occupy pro-Russian towns and cities near the border. Any airstrikes or use of artillery is unlikely, unless Russian troops meet stiff resistance.* Even if they were able to invade Russia-friendly eastern Ukraine without much fighting, the move would exacerbate an already tense situation. “*If [Putin] tries to move against the towns and cities along the border in eastern Ukraine, which are all heavily Russian, then we are qualitatively in an entirely new crisis,*” says Thomas Nichols, professor of national security affairs at the Naval War College.

Russian’s next move depends on Putin’s broader political goals. If he intends to annex Crimea permanently, he could stay put, or push his forces far enough to establish a de facto annexation of the peninsula. Exclaves are nothing new to Moscow and it retains a form of de facto suzerainty over the breakaway Georgian republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But if Putin intends to dominate the status quo in Ukraine, he could push further into the country. Nichols argues that the U.S., its European allies and NATO have done little to deter Putin’s actions. “Why should he stop?” Nichols asks. “What’s the West policy been so far? ‘Stop, or we’ll say stop again.’”


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## LordTyrannus

xenon54 said:


> Not really, Turkey doesnt see Russia as a threat, Russia has no balls to attack a NATO country.



NATO is not your bodyguard, little missy.


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## victor07

Press Service of the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs stated that the frigate Hetman Sahaidachny entered the Black Sea under the Ukrainian flag.
ИТАР-ТАСС: Международная панорама - МИД Украины: фрегат "Гетман Сагайдачный" украинских ВМС возвращается в Черное море


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## BLACKEAGLE

LordTyrannus said:


> NATO is not your bodyguard, little missy.


Turkey is no Ukraine. This picture is false, Turkey can be the wolf vs Russia, the bear.



LordTyrannus said:


> Turkeys shiting in their pants.


Of course, Russia is stronger than Turkey, but a military like the Turkish one is able of beating the crap out of the Russian if were invaded. In other words, Turkey is too big for Russia to chew like Georgia or Ukraine.

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## victor07

First day of spring in the Crimea in photos

















Posters say that the Kiev government are traitors and Berkut are heroes.

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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> NATO is not your bodyguard, little missy.


One attack from Russia agaist a NATO country means the whole alliace is involved. So we are pretty much eachothers bodyguard little kid...

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## Falcon29

http://app.debka.com/p/article/2372...S-guarantee-not-to-post-missile-shield-there-

Monday, EU foreign ministers began considering how these lofty principles could be applied in practice. One idea gaining ground was for European contact groups to circulate Ukraine and discuss arrangements based on these principles with local authorities.
However, according to our US and Russian sources, Putin is after hard, practical strategic gains, principally, a demilitarized Crimea that would not threaten Russia from its western doorstep.
In fact, the Russian president has couched his demands for further negotiations under four headings:

1. The Kiev government whichever form it takes must sign an obligation to abstain from any ties with NATO.
2. Neither the US, NATO or any other power will deploy X-Band or BX-1 radar stations on Ukraine territory whether on land, sea or air. This guarantee would additionally cover elements of an anti-missile missile shield and ballistic missiles placing Russia in their sights.
3. Restrictions will govern the types of weapons allowed the Ukrainian army.
4. Local military bodies will be established to protect the Russian-speaking and ethnic Russian regions of Ukraine.
Putin emphasized in his conversation with Merkel that, until those four conditions are met, Russian forces would remain where they are in Crimea and if this was deemed necesssary, advance into other parts of Ukraine.

................

Told you guys it's about security.


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## Audio

Poland moves troops, flies jets near Ukraine border.
Reports of NATO ships entering the Black Sea.
US carrier parked in Greece.
10 bill.$ in sold off gold to prop up the rouble.
Putin orders troops back to barracks.
Problem? 

At most, Crimea will get independence or republic status within Russia. Eastern Ukraine is out of reach by now, the demographics are not so clearly cut in favour of ethnic Russian population, and more importantly, the oligarchs that own all the industry have just been appointed as regional governors in eastern parts of Ukraine.

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## Hakan

LordTyrannus said:


> NATO is not your bodyguard, little missy.


We will just send the chechens in Turkey to deal with you guys. Im sure the afghans wouldn't mind helping either.

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## LordTyrannus

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Turkey is no Ukraine. This picture is false, Turkey can be the wolf vs Russia, the bear.



Syria shot down turkish F4...turkish reaction...zero
Israel killed turkish sailors...turkish reaction...zero
USA bombed turkish warship...turkish reaction...zero
kurds terrorizing turkish citizens...turkish reaction...zero

An old toothless dog is no wolf!



> Of course, Russia is stronger than Turkey, but a military like the Turkish one is able of beating the crap out of the Russian if were invaded. In other words, Turkey is too big for Russia to chew like Georgia or Ukraine.



With islamist government, turkey and its kemalist military is weak like never before. 600 turkish generals sitting in jail! LOL

Russia will easily crush turkey after the kurdish uprising has started.

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## Hakan

LordTyrannus said:


> Syria shot down turkish F4...turkish reaction...zero
> Israel killed turkish sailors...turkish reaction...zero
> USA bombed turkish warship...turkish reaction...zero
> kurds terrorizing turkish citizens...turkish reaction...zero
> 
> An old toothless dog is no wolf!
> 
> 
> 
> With islamist government, turkey and its kemalist military is weak like never before. 600 turkish generals sitting in jail! LOL
> 
> Russia will easily crush turkey after the kurdish uprising has started.


Why didn't you do it in the past then?


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## LordTyrannus

xenon54 said:


> One attack from Russia agaist a NATO country means the whole alliace is involved. So we are pretty much eachothers bodyguard little kid...



Like they helped you against SYRIA (shot down your plane), ISRAEL (killed your sailors), KURDS (terrorized your citizens) or GREEKS (slaughtered your turkish cypriot brothers)...lmao

NATO was perfect to enforce the US Embargos on you after Cyprus crisis. 



Kaan said:


> We will just send the chechens in Turkey to deal with you guys. Im sure the afghans wouldn't mind helping either.


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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> Like they helped you against SYRIA (shot down your plane), ISRAEL (killed your sailors), KURDS (terrorized your citizens) or GREEKS (slaughtered your turkish cypriot brothers)...lmao
> 
> NATO was perfect to enforce the US Embargos on you after Cyprus crisis.


Your iq is probably the same as your shoe number...

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## Hakan

LordTyrannus said:


> Like they helped you against SYRIA (shot down your plane), ISRAEL (killed your sailors), KURDS (terrorized your citizens) or GREEKS (slaughtered your turkish cypriot brothers)...lmao
> 
> NATO was perfect to enforce the US Embargos on you after Cyprus crisis.


What was our reaction to greece? We invaded and now we are building our own defence industry. We support opposition in syria, and we attacked assads soldiers as well, we cut many relations with Israel aswell. Didn't you see our guys beat up their special forces with just sticks? We threw them over the ship. The PKK is basically eliminated in Turkey right now. You have no idea what you are talking about
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The only thing the chechens feed your tanks is RPG's.

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## flamer84

Don't feed the mega troll guys !

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## Fukuoka

I don't remember any courageaous actions from the turks except maybe the invasion of Cyprus

Reminds me that Russia deserve the warm waters of Turkey


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## LordTyrannus

Russian Power Projection makes you all bitter and jelous of course. Your reactions are understandable.


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## Hakan

xenon54 said:


> Your iq is probably the same as your shoe number...


In the u,s the largest shoe size is 15.


Fukuoka said:


> I don't remember any courageaous actions from the turks except maybe the invasion of Cyprus
> 
> Reminds me that Russia deserve the warm waters of Turkey


They will never get it


LordTyrannus said:


> Russian Power Projection makes you all bitter and jelous of course. Your reactions are understandable.


How big was the georgian military? How about Ukrainian?What about the Afghans?What about the Chechens? Why didn't you attack america when they went into Yugo Slavia. What do you only pick on small countries?


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## Fukuoka

Kaan said:


> We support opposition in syria, and we attacked assads soldiers as well, we cut many relations with Israel aswell. Didn't you see our guys beat up their special forces with just sticks? We threw them over the ship.


For sure it's very courageous to make the comedy against Israel and say some words that have no consequences

You just makes as if you do something

You are 80 against Syria, is that courageaous?

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## xenon54 out

LordTyrannus said:


> Russian Power Projection makes you all bitter and jelous of course. Your reactions are understandable.


We only see a big country bullying small ones with ridiculous armies.
Nothing to be proud of yourself...

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## Hakan

Fukuoka said:


> For sure it's very courageous to make the comedy against Israel and say some words that have no consequences
> 
> You just makes as if you do something
> 
> You are 80 against Syria, is that courageaous?


Its not courageous what we did against assad it is just a normal reaction. And no one ever claimed it to be courageous.


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## LordTyrannus

Turks went from organized military to terrorist acts...they try to destabilize Syria by arming al kaida and other islamist terrorists. There is a huge crack between the turkish islamist government and the kemalist military.

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## Fukuoka

Kaan said:


> Its not courageous what we did against assad it is just a normal reaction. And no one ever claimed it to be courageous.


Normal reaction to send zionist Al Qaeda on agreement with NATO

You strangely don't have normal reaction for the palestinians because you are the slaves of the JEWS attacking Islam countries

Your rhetoric has no sense and you agree with Israel to say 1 bad sentence every 6 months to make as if you're not friend because no one can be friend with the JEWS who bully muslims on live

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## A.P. Richelieu

The years following WW II seems to have been a nightmare for the Soviets in Ukraine due to the Ukrainan insurgency. Apparently higher losses than during the Afghanistan War. Only ended in 1950.
Does Putin want to take the risk of a repetition?

As long as there are no Russian casualties, Russians will sunbath in the apparent success.
What happens if Ukraine starts an insurgency in Crimea?
Russia does not have such a large army there, and the previous insurgency seemed to 
be more brutal than even of Nigeria's Boko Harum.

Some Ukrainians can be VERY nasty.

If 35-40% is on your side, can an insurgency still be viable?

It seems the logical strategy, if Russia remains in Crimea.

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## Fukuoka

xenon54 said:


> We only see a big country bullying small ones with ridiculous armies.
> Nothing to be proud of yourself...


I see 1 against JEW NATO terrorists dogs again

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## Audio

A.P. Richelieu said:


> The years following WW II seems to have been a nightmare for the Soviets in Ukraine due to the Ukrainan insurgency. Apparently higher losses than during the Afghanistan War. Only ended in 1950.
> Does Putin want to take the risk of a repetition?
> 
> As long as there are no Russian casualties, Russians will sunbath in the apparent success.
> What happens if Ukraine starts an insurgency in Crimea?
> Russia does not have such a large army there, and the previous insurgency seemed to
> be more brutal than even of Nigeria's Boko Harum.
> 
> Some Ukrainians can be VERY nasty.
> 
> If 35-40% is on your side, can an insurgency still be viable?
> 
> It seems the logical strategy, if Russia remains in Crimea.




You're wrong. In Crimea there's 80% Russian majority, and Russians will keep it somehow, either directly or control through some sort of agreement with Ukrainian government.......in the eastern and southern regions there are percentages you mention and there is where the real danger of insurgency lies.

Now, that the prospect of Ukraine joining Customs Union is over, Putin only cares for Sevastopol base for access to the Mediterean, Russians in Crimea give him a perfect excuse to inavde while looking patriotic. That and NATO radars and listening posts in Ukraine.

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## Hakan

Audio said:


> You're wrong. In Crimea there's 80% Russian majority, and Russians will keep it somehow, either directly or control through some sort of agreement with Ukrainian government.......in the eastern and southern regions there are percentages you mention and there is where the real danger of insurgency lies.
> 
> Now, that the prospect of Ukraine joining Customs Union is over, Putin only cares for Sevastopol base for access to the Mediterean, Russians in Crimea give him a perfect excuse to inavde while looking patriotic. That and NATO radars and listening posts in Ukraine.


Crimean Tatars may 'take up arms' if Russia invades | Europe | Worldbulletin News

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## flamer84

Audio said:


> You're wrong. In Crimea there's 80% Russian majority, and Russians will keep it somehow, either directly or control through some sort of agreement with Ukrainian government.......in the eastern and southern regions there are percentages you mention and there is where the real danger of insurgency lies.
> 
> Now, that the prospect of Ukraine joining Customs Union is over, Putin only cares for Sevastopol base for access to the Mediterean, Russians in Crimea give him a perfect excuse to inavde while looking patriotic. That and NATO radars and listening posts in Ukraine.



60% russians,rest are tatars and ukrainians.

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## Audio

Kaan said:


> Crimean Tatars may 'take up arms' if Russia invades | Europe | Worldbulletin News



Hmm, interesting, i thought up until now Russians sent in Kadyrov (acting governor of Chechnya iirc) a couple of days ago and he managed to persuade the Tatar leadership to side with Russia or at least stay neutral.



flamer84 said:


> 60% russians,rest are tatars and ukrainians.



Well, seems things are not so clearly in favour of Russian annexation of Crimea as i originally thought!

Still i think they will push hard to somehow keep atleast the Sevastopol base, it's too crucial to let go.

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## LordTyrannus

Tatars are a muslim minority and they get paid from Saudi Arabia. The Uighurs in China are also funded from CIA/Saudis. CIA gives the training and Saudis finance it.

Worldwide islamist terrorism = SaudiArabia+CIA


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## flamer84

Even Russia Today employees rebel against Putler

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## A.P. Richelieu

Audio said:


> You're wrong. In Crimea there's 80% Russian majority, and Russians will keep it somehow, either directly or control through some sort of agreement with Ukrainian government.......in the eastern and southern regions there are percentages you mention and there is where the real danger of insurgency lies.
> 
> Now, that the prospect of Ukraine joining Customs Union is over, Putin only cares for Sevastopol base for access to the Mediterean, Russians in Crimea give him a perfect excuse to inavde while looking patriotic. That and NATO radars and listening posts in Ukraine.



Depend on if you count Sevastopol or not. Without, it is more my numbers.
Sevastopol is not part of the Crimean Region of Ukraine from an organisation point of view
if I understand correctly.

An insurgency could be organised from Kiev, while trying to wash their hands outwards.

Whether or not Ukraine is to join the E.U. or not remains to be seen. 
Think the E.U. learned a lesson from Hungary, and will need guarantees that 
fascism will be curbed, before that happens, and no way before the economy is in shape.
A trade agreement is likely whatever Putin says. 
The contents of such an agreement is debatable.

As for "perfect excuse", according to news, Putin is backing off and claiming that the troops were 
Crimean self defense forces. Unfortunately noone have informed the troops,
because they seem to think they are Russian.
Only heard a translation of his interview, though, so I let others judge the validity.


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## LordTyrannus

Russian troops can give security to Ukranians. Many Ukranians just watch the events silent, they understand now that criminal puppet regime of kiev is impotent and cant secure the ukranian population. Klitschko and his fellow clowns will fall like domino stones.


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## flamer84

LordTyrannus said:


> Russian troops can give security to Ukranians. Many Ukranians just watch the events silent, they understand now that criminal puppet regime of kiev is impotent and cant secure the ukranian population. Klitschko and his fellow clowns will fall like domino stones.



Domino *stones *? Are you under the impression that Fred Flinstone and Barney Rubble played Domino in the paleolithic ?


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## LordTyrannus



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## A.P. Richelieu

LordTyrannus said:


> Russian troops can give security to Ukranians. Many Ukranians just watch the events silent, they understand now that criminal puppet regime of kiev is impotent and cant secure the ukranian population. Klitschko and his fellow clowns will fall like domino stones.



Or they may choose to believe the stories on Internet about 100s of thousand of Ukrainians killed by the Red Army/NKVD after the war and many more deported, and decide that enough is enough.
Some security...


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## Fukuoka

Kaan said:


> Crimean Tatars may 'take up arms' if Russia invades | Europe | Worldbulletin News


They were with the nazis, they are mentally challenged

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## LordTyrannus

Nazis will thank the tatars by throwing them into an Oven.

rofl


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## BLACKEAGLE

Now Russia has backed off after their stock market had dropped by 10% costing them $60 bn losses, the possibility of losing their seat in the G8, and yet more international isolation, and finally, the opposition of 73% of Russians to the escalation and the opposition of Russian traditional allies.


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## Arzamas 16

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Now Russia has backed off after their stock market had dropped by 10% costing them $60 bn losses, the possibility of losing their seat in the G8, and yet more international isolation, and finally, the opposition of 73% of Russians to the escalation and the opposition of Russian traditional allies.




LOL backed off?? 

Our troops are still in Crimea, and not leaving, and our stock went up again by 6%.

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## flamer84

Arzamas 16 said:


> LOL backed off??
> 
> Our troops are still in Crimea, and not leaving, and our stock went up again by 6%.



Stocks went up because troops were ordered back in their baracks at the eastern border and Putin showed signs of de-escalation.

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## LordTyrannus

flamer84 said:


> Stocks went up because troops were ordered back in their baracks at the eastern border and Putin showed signs of de-escalation.



The Troops are still on the border.


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## BLACKEAGLE

LordTyrannus said:


> The Troops are still on the border.


But they haven't executed the orders of taking control of Qirm peninsula as were intended by Russia.


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## flamer84

LordTyrannus said:


> The Troops are still on the border.



As i've said,situation has winded down,they're not conducting military exercises,no shot was fired in Crimea and violence didn't erupt in Eastern Ukraine.The situation seems stable,albeit fragile.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Fukuoka said:


> They were with the nazis, they are mentally challenged


And look who's talking about being mentally challenged.

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## LordTyrannus

flamer84 said:


> As i've said,situation has winded down,they're not conducting military exercises,no shot was fired in Crimea and violence didn't erupt in Eastern Ukraine.The situation seems stable,albeit fragile.



Stop BSting around. Russian troops dont go back to their barracks like you claimed, western provocateur.

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## flamer84

LordTyrannus said:


> Stop BSting around. Russian troops dont go back to their barracks like you claimed, western provocateur.


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## BLACKEAGLE

LordTyrannus said:


> Stop BSting around. Russian troops dont go back to their barracks like you claimed, western provocateur.


I think Russia will look for a solution to bail herself out from this embarrassment, it can't bear the repercussions. Stupid Russia, if it didn't support Bashar, it would have got some support from the ME like the Georgian war.


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## Porus

BLACKEAGLE said:


> I think Russia will look for a solution to bail herself out from this embarrassment, it can't bear the repercussions. Stupid Russia, if it didn't support Bashar, it would have got some support from the ME like the Georgian war.



What repercussions? The possibility of a military confrontation is out of question, and Russia has already warned that it would retaliate if EU/US introduce any kind of economic sanctions against Russia. Instead of sanctions both Germany and France are seeking peaceful resolution through dialogues with Russia, whereas USA is more for economic sanctions. As Europe's trade volume with Russia is ten times larger than that of USA, unilateral US sanctions against Russia won't have much impact.


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## LordTyrannus

And once again mighty west turned out impotent.


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## Juice

Hashshāshīn said:


> I know, I actually support Russia. Russia needs to take control of their equipment in Crimea. The new neo-Nazi regime should not have access to them. I read some of the chants the done: "**** niggers, Jews and Russians" and calling for a new holocaust etc.


And the Iranians are reporting the protesters are all Zionist! Which is it?



LordTyrannus said:


> And once again mighty west turned out impotent.


Lol....Some old trucks full of guys with rifles may impress some. As far as the US, it seems they wanted to join the EU. The US isn't in the EU (news to you I'm sure) And we aren't in Europe. We will support what ever the Europeans come up with (I agree most Europeans lack spine). As far as the rest...we make take some symbolic action...no reason for much else...Ukraine isn't really all that strategic to the US. And the Russian move is immensely helpful...your neighbors will distrust Russia much more and strengthen our ties in the region.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

al-Hasani said:


> Later completely Persianized who married locals, Persians, Arabs and other people. So in fact their ancestry was Mongolian and their culture mostly Persian. Conclusion nothing to do with Turks. Especially not Turks of Turkey.
> Everbyody knows this but some people have a hard time accepting it, it seems in their desperation for attaching themselves to World Unesco Heritage Sites.




This thread is nostalgic AF.

As for mughals.. babur claimed descent from Mongols.. in his biography called Babar Nama.. his descendants married persians,Pashtuns,Turks.. but most of the mughal rulers actually had hindu/Rajput mothers. 
Their court language was Persian, later replaced by urdu.

There is no mention of any Arab wives..


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