# Anti-Jihad 'Savage' Ads Going Up In NYC Subway



## Devil Soul

Anti-Jihad 'Savage' Ads Going Up In NYC Subway
NEW YORK (AP)  As violent protests over an anti-Islamic film ridiculing the Prophet Muhammad sweep over much of the Muslim world, a conservative blogger's provocative ad equating Muslim radicals with savages is set to go up in the city's subway system.

Pamela Geller, who once headed a campaign against an Islamic center near the Sept. 11, 2001 terror attack site won a court order to post the ad in 10 subway stations next Monday. The ad reads, "In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad."

The ad was plastered on San Francisco city buses in recent weeks, prompting some artists to deface the ads and remove some of the words, including "Jihad," or holy war. Geller said she filed suit Thursday in the U.S. capital to post the ad in Washington's transit system after officials declined to put up the ad in light of the uproar in the Middle East over the anti-Islam film.
Abdul Yasar, a New York subway rider who considers himself an observant Muslim, said Geller's ad was insensitive in an unsettling climate for Muslims.

"If you don't want to see what happened in Libya and Egypt after the video  maybe not so strong here in America  you shouldn't put this up," Yasar said.
But "if this is a free country, they have the right to do this," he said. "And then Muslims have the right to put up their own ad."

Geller, executive director of the American Freedom Defense Initiative and publisher of a blog called Atlas Shrugs, called an order by a federal judge in New York allowing the ads "a victory for the First Amendment" and said she wasn't concerned that her ad could spark protests like the ones against the depiction of Muslims in the video "Innocence of Muslims." Violence linked to the movie has left at least 30 people in seven countries dead, including the American ambassador to Libya.
"If it's not a film it's a cartoon, if it's not a cartoon it's a teddy bear," she said. "What are you going to do? Are you going to reward Islamic extremism? I will not sacrifice my freedom so as not to offend savages."

New York police aren't anticipating adding any security to subways when the ads go up and have received no threats or reports of violence relating to them, chief spokesman Paul Browne said.
The Metropolitan Transportation Authority in New York initially refused to run Geller's ad, saying it was "demeaning." But U.S. District Court Judge Paul Engelmayer ruled last month that it is protected speech under the First Amendment.

"Our hands are tied," MTA spokesman Aaron Donovan said. "Under our existing ad standards as modified by the injunction, the MTA is required to run the ad."
Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, backed publication of the "patently offensive" ads.

"More offensive would be their censorship because that would violate the guarantee of free expression of all ideas regardless of how distasteful they are," she said.
Geller said the subway ads cost about $6,000. Donovan said they will be up for a month.
Opponents say the ads imply that Muslims are savages.

"We recognize the freedom of speech issues and her right to be a bigot and a racist," said Muneer Awad, the executive director of the New York chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

But he said he hopes elected officials and the MTA, which runs the nation's largest mass transit system, "take on a leadership role in denouncing hate speech."

Geller, as head of a group called Stop Islamization of America, helped spur a monthslong campaign two years ago to remove a planned Islamic community center blocks from the World Trade Center site, which she called the "ground zero mosque." Plans to build a larger center are pending, although Muslims still have regular prayer services at a mosque in the building.

When the ad ran in San Francisco from Aug. 13 to Sept. 4, transit officials took the unusual step of running disclaimers on the sides of the buses, while some artists painted over "Jihad" or photoshopped pictures that said instead, "Defeat Racism."

Geller's group has also placed ads in Metro-North Railroad stations north of New York City that read: "It's not Islamophobia, it's Islamorealism."

The Washington Metropolitan Area Transit Authority hadn't seen Geller's lawsuit on Thursday, spokesman Dan Stessel said. The agency told Geller the ad would be "deferred" because of the ongoing violence in the Middle East, he said.

"To be clear, we have not rejected the ad," Stessel said, but "merely asked the advertiser to be sensitive to the timing of the placement out of a concern for public safety, given current world events."


----------



## Zabaniyah

Trolls....they are just an incurable disease. 

Don't feed them. Please...

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Bhairava

You cant browbeat anyone into respecting your religion. reform from within and respect would come automatically.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Safriz

Bhairava said:


> You cant browbeat anyone into respecting your religion. reform from within and respect would come automatically.



we dont want them to respect us..
we want them to leave us alone and mind their own business..and stop disrespecting us.

Reactions: Like Like:
16


----------



## Juice

Safriz said:


> we dont want them to respect us..
> we want them to leave us alone and mind their own business..and stop disrespecting us.



Let's say I move into your house and ask you to "leave me alone"...(and yeah...works both ways)

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## RazPaK

Juice said:


> Let's say I move into your house and ask you to "leave me alone"...(and yeah...works both ways)



Bad example. Many Muslims have been born right here in the United States. Many of the soldiers in the armed forces have converted to Islam.

Is is ok to hurt their religious sentiments?

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Don Jaguar

Juice said:


> Let's say I move into your house and ask you to "leave me alone"...(and yeah...works both ways)



We entered in your house with your permission (visa).

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Bhairava

Safriz said:


> we dont want them to respect us..
> we want them to leave us alone and mind their own business..and stop disrespecting us.



Ok please leave their home then and get back to Dar-ul-Islam then where no body will disrespect you. You want to live there, leech them of their resources, earn money but will not toleraye when they ask you stop being violent. Hypocrisy ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Safriz

Bhairava said:


> Ok please leave their home then and get back to Dar-ul-Islam then where no body will disrespect you. You want to live there, leech them of their resources, earn money but will not toleraye when they ask you stop being violent. Hypocrisy ?



Yup,once their armies leave our lands,and their corporate giants leave our resources,all this is possible.
And Btw,thsi broken old record is irrelevant here..
immigrants did not cause any trouble or they had been kicked out long ago..
Put it this way..If USA can send hundreds of thousands of soldiers thousands of miles away for war at expense of lives and billions of dollars..it was much more convenient and less expensive to deploy the same army inside america on Muslim migrant hunt,if that was the root problem...and if that was the root cause of all their problems they had done it long ago.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Juice

The best way to answer this is to make them look like the nuts....as opposed to making them look right.


----------



## karan.1970

Safriz said:


> Yup,once their armies leave our lands,and their corporate giants leave our resources,all this is possible.
> .



US army is in Pakistan?? Didnt know that ...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Juice

Safriz said:


> Yup,once their armies leave our lands,and their corporate giants leave our resources,all this is possible.
> And Btw,thsi broken old record is irrelevant here..
> immigrants did not cause any trouble or they had been kicked out long ago..
> Put it this way..If USA can send hundreds of thousands of soldiers thousands of miles away for war at expense of lives and billions of dollars..it was much more convenient and less expensive to deploy the same army inside america on Muslim migrant hunt,if that was the root problem...and if that was the root cause of all their problems they had done it long ago.



We do seem to get the best of the migrants.....better oppurtunity? Large oceans on our border? The muslims in the US are perhaps the best ambassoders of their faith...we should send them back to teach the others.


----------



## Maira La

Bhairava said:


> You cant browbeat anyone into respecting your religion. reform from within and respect would come automatically.



Exactly! Reform from within, purge the hindutva elements from your society. Respect from both Indian and non-Indian Muslims will follow.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## karan.1970

apo_Asura said:


> Exactly! Reform from within, purge the hindutva elements from your society. Respect from both Indian and non-Indian Muslims will follow.



I dont see posters about Hindutva savagery going up across the world now.. Do I ???

Stick to the topic...

Reactions: Like Like:
9


----------



## Safriz

Juice said:


> We do seem to get the best of the migrants.....better oppurtunity? Large oceans on our border? The muslims in the US are perhaps the best ambassoders of their faith...we should send them back to teach the others.


My friend..like i said..
If that was the solution,your government had done it long time ago without you and the likes of yours' suggestion.
Most muslims arent difficult to single out .. we look different and is very easy to pick them up and ship them back to where ever they came from.
I had this discussion multiple times here in UK..
I dont do a job anymore,as i run a business..but when i was an employee,i had a heated argument with a white British who insisted that he is jobless because i am blocking his oppertunity and it got to my nerves that day..I called my Manager and asked him to interview the guy and employ him if he is deemed fit for my position,and i was damn serious..The manager reminded me of my original interview and also reminded me that there were many white guys there who appeared for the interview and if i was selected that means i deserved it,and then he asked me not to worry,the government isnt a charity for immigrants,the day e are deemed useless,that day we will be shipped back,if we are there its because we are useful and cannot be replcaed by locals..

I will give you one Muslim country's example "Malaysia" .. you dont see many Malaysian immigrants anywhere in Europe or USA and there are reasons...Mainly their disconnection with Trade in USD abd from international market.
An explaination will be too long so google it.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## fallstuff

This actually will turn out to be a good thing, this witch geller is actually setting the precedent to troll.
Will get handy if the NY transit authorities refuse to put up ads by other groups such as the Palestinian 
fighting savages.

Be-careful of what you wish for evil genius Pamela Gellar !!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bhairava

apo_Asura said:


> Exactly! Reform from within, purge the hindutva elements from your society. Respect from both Indian and non-Indian Muslims will follow.



Typical inferiority complexed Hindu-phobe. Stick to topic which is "Posters against jihad in NYC subway".



karan.1970 said:


> I dont see posters about Hindutva savagery going up across the world now.. Do I ???.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Juice

Had the same discussion here....not really anti-migrant myself....who migrates? Those who see a better future....those with b@lls. The lazy idiots sit in their ***** with no imagination. The migrants are those who say "Hell no" and leave. How much gumption do you need? A lot! One reason the US is powerful is we are composed of those who don't take it sitting down. (this is @ Safriz....forgot to quote)

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Bhairava

Safriz said:


> Yup,once their armies leave our lands,and their corporate giants leave our resources,all this is possible.
> And Btw,thsi broken old record is irrelevant here..
> immigrants did not cause any trouble or they had been kicked out long ago..
> Put it this way..If USA can send hundreds of thousands of soldiers thousands of miles away for war at expense of lives and billions of dollars..it was much more convenient and less expensive to deploy the same army inside america on Muslim migrant hunt,if that was the root problem...and if that was the root cause of all their problems they had done it long ago.



Leave our Muslim lands..Dude do you know that the "Our muslim kings/emirs/sultans/sheikhs/Prime Ministers" only invited the Amreekan army into the Muslim land ? The CENTCOM is there in Gulf with the full co-operation and assistance of the Muslims themselves. America gained a foothold in South Asia because your country signed CENTO,SEATO and what not with them immediately after independence. So stop this "Leave our lands tamasha". Oh and BTW the armies are there to kill and and be killed...are you dudes also there to do that ? 

BTW did you know that it is actually one of the eveel western corporation Eni that supplies a ssignificant part of Pakistani gas consumption and it was that same eveeel western corporation that has found another huge reserve somewhere near Karachi. If your Muslim countries were even a fraction as advanced scientifically as the Western world they would not be in your lands extracting the resources. Blame yourself for not giving importance to education and developing technologically.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## OrionHunter

> The ad reads, "In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad."
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/americ...ge-ads-going-up-nyc-subway.html#ixzz27AJ98V9j


So what's wrong with this ad? It doesn't say anything about 'Muslims'. 'Jihad' doesn't automatically mean Muslim. It has nothing to do with religion per se. And 'savages' doesn't mean Muslims too, unless you want to believe it does! 

Or am I missing something here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bhairava

OrionHunter said:


> Or am I missing something here?



You missed out the "Support Israel" part which is causing the heartburn.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Erhabi

OrionHunter said:


> So what's wrong with this ad? It doesn't say anything about 'Muslims'. 'Jihad' doesn't automatically mean Muslim. It has nothing to do with religion per se. And 'savages' doesn't mean Muslims too, unless you want to believe it does!
> 
> Or am I missing something here?



there are 5 pillars in Islam Tawheed, Prayer, Zakat, Fasting and Hajj. Jihad is considered as the sixth pillar of Islam without believing in Jihad one is not a Muslim...Someone wanting to fight in the way of Allah (Jihad) should first practice the 5 basic duties, because without their understanding and practice, one cannot do Jihad.


----------



## Developereo

This is a BRILLIANT development. I wish more such ads would appear all over the place because it brings Israel front and center into the debate, which is where it belongs. The smarter Zionists have been working tirelessly to shift the focus off Israel and portray this as a fight between the West and Islam when, in point of fact, Israel is at the core of the conflict. It's heartwarming to see these bungling extremists undo all the clever work of the smarter Zionists.

These ads show loud and clear to the American public that their conflict with Muslims is driven by the fanatical Zionists within their own midst. This ad will actually backfire as more and more Americans ask themselves, "why *should* we support Israel? why do American have to die in their fight?"



OrionHunter said:


> 'Jihad' doesn't automatically mean Muslim.



Jihad has exactly the same connotations as the word 'crusade' in the West. While there was a militant aspect of the Crusades, the word generally has positive connotations: crusade against hunger, crusade against cancer, etc. This is despite the fact that Christian fundamentalists still use the word crusade to describe their holy war.

However, in the case of jihad, the Western media has dissociated all positive meaning and reduced it only to its violent aspects. So, even when a Muslim uses the word in a positive context, it is plastered all over by the media as a call to violence.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> This is a BRILLIANT development. I wish more such ads would appear all over the place because it brings Israel front and center into the debate, which is where it belongs.
> 
> These ads show loud and clear to the American public that their conflict with Muslims is driven by the fanatical Zionists within their own midst. This ad will actually backfire as more and more Americans ask themselves, "why *should* we support Israel? why do American have to die in their fight?"



Good luck with wishful analysis. You have to be a novice to think that US Israel relationship will fall because of this ad. 

Here is the deal: 
1.The ad is not supported by majority in the US- ( I would think over 90% of Americans). Now Americans can be paranoid about Muslims but they about being offensive to them and this ad crosses the line. 

2. These kind of ads from this woman -were blocked by the US govt previously-She went to court and *won *under freedom of speech vs US Govt.

3. Unless you are a J-ihadi or J-ihadi sympathizer you would ignore it. There is nothing but negative conotation about that word ( hell the word J I H A D is even removed from this site!) and not matter how much you try to spin it- that's what Islamofacists use as *the* word to identify their cause.


----------



## karan.1970

Developereo said:


> However, in the case of jihad, the Western media has dissociated all positive meaning and reduced it only to its violent aspects. So, even when a Muslim uses the word in a positive context, it is plastered all over by the media as a call to violence.




Seriously ?? You blame the West for spoiling the meaning of Jihad..?? Personally, I would have been more inclined to put the blame on the wide eyed extremist mullahs who normally scream out this word before blowing themselves up in a crowd of innocent men women and children...

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## KingMamba

Karan and Bhairava on a super trolling streak today. Karan is trying to be more subtle than Bhairava I will give him that. As for the ads LOL no body reads that stuff anyway, New Yorkers are way too busy to stop to read an ad. 



karan.1970 said:


> Seriously ?? You blame the West for spoiling the meaning of Jihad..?? Personally, I would have been more inclined to put the blame on the wide eyed extremist mullahs who normally scream out this world before blowing themselves up in a crowd of innocent men women and children...



How can people scream out the this world?


----------



## karan.1970

KingMamba93 said:


> Karan and Bhairava on a super trolling streak today. Karan is trying to be more subtle than Bhairava I will give him that.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/41367-troll-fatwas.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KingMamba

karan.1970 said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/41367-troll-fatwas.html



Duly noted.



Malik Abdullah said:


> there are 5 pillars in Islam Tawheed, Prayer, Zakat, Fasting and Hajj. Jihad is considered as the sixth pillar of Islam without believing in Jihad one is not a Muslim...Someone wanting to fight in the way of Allah (Jihad) should first practice the 5 basic duties, because without their understanding and practice, one cannot do Jihad.



How about you define jihad before you claim it is a pillar of our faith, most people do not know the meaning so since you brought it up clarify lest people start quoting you and have a heart attack thinking 1.6 billion Muslims are going to start a holy war.


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> Good luck with wishful analysis. You have to be a novice to think that US Israel relationship will fall because of this ad.



Nobody is under any illusions as to the Zionist chokehold on American society. Read my post again; the ad undoes all the hard work of the smarter Zionists to shift Israel out of the limelight and make this a fight between America and the Muslim world.



JayAtl said:


> Here is the deal:
> 1.The ad is not supported by majority in the US- ( I would think over 90% of Americans). Now Americans can be paranoid about Muslims but they about being offensive to them and this ad crosses the line.
> 
> 2. These kind of ads from this woman -were blocked by the US govt previously-She went to court and *won *under freedom of speech vs US Govt.
> 
> 3. Unless you are a J-ihadi or J-ihadi sympathizer you would ignore it.



Speaking of wishful thinking, you are desperately hoping that this ad campaign will fail. I say more power to them!



JayAtl said:


> There is nothing but negative conotation about that word ( hell the word J I H A D is even removed from this site!) and not matter how much you try to spin it- that's what Islamofacists use as *the* word to identify their cause.



See below...



karan.1970 said:


> Seriously ?? You blame the West for spoiling the meaning of Jihad..?? Personally, I would have been more inclined to put the blame on the wide eyed extremist mullahs who normally scream out this world before blowing themselves up in a crowd of innocent men women and children...



No one has denied that extremists use that word, just as Christian extremists use the word crusade (including George Bush describing the Iraq war!). It would help if you read what is actually written rather than latching on to any anti-Islam propaganda that suits your agenda.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## karan.1970

Developereo said:


> No one has denied that extremists use that word, just as Christian extremists use the word crusade (including George Bush describing the Iraq war!). It would help if you read what is actually written rather than latching on to any anti-Islam propaganda that suits your agenda.



Nobody is latching on to any propaganda .. Just trying to express surprise at your attempt of deflecting the blame from the real perpetrators who have given Islam and Jihad a bad name in the world.....


----------



## funtoosh

Safriz said:


> we dont want them to respect us..
> we want them to leave us alone and mind their own business..and stop disrespecting us.



the day you guys leave others alone.. for eg, you send terror into india because some hindus and muslims had riot in Guj. you guys bomb my country becuase an old unused mosque like structure built on a temple was demolished. come on you guys have he longest noses

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Developereo

karan.1970 said:


> Nobody is latching on to any propaganda .. Just trying to express surprise at your attempt of deflecting the blame from the real perpetrators who have given Islam and Jihad a bad name in the world.....



Nobody's deflecting anything. You are blinded by your prejudice.

As I mentioned, Christian extremists also use the word Crusade to describe their holy way, including official wars waged by the US. Yet, the word crusade hasn't accrued any negative connotations in the Western media.

http://www.itv.com/news/2012-04-18/breivik-the-crusader-claims-allegiance-to-the-knights-templar/

_Right-wing fanatic Anders Breivik, who killed 77 people in bombing and shooting attacks in Norway, claims that the attacks were part of a wider crusade against Islam in Europe.

Breivik has claimed allegiance to the Knights Templar, which he described as a secret society created to extinguish reminisces of the religion. He allegedly attended a meeting of the Knights Templar in London._


----------



## Bhairava

KingMamba93 said:


> Karan and Bhairava on a super trolling streak today. Karan is trying to be more subtle than Bhairava I will give him that. As for the ads LOL no body reads that stuff anyway, New Yorkers are way too busy to stop to read an ad.



I am politically incorrect. . But I speak the truth, or my version of it.


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Nobody is under any illusions as to the Zionist chokehold on American society. Read my post again; the ad undoes all the hard work of the smarter Zionists to shift Israel out of the limelight and make this a fight between America and the Muslim world.



There is a fundamental naivete in your thinking. Not surprising. There is no Zionist hold in america- rather it just suits your meme. We don't get dictated by Israel or Zionist - if we did, US soldiers would have been an ally fighting aside Israel in all their wars ( 6 day war)- not just be an arms supplier. I would imagine if they had a hold on us - we would have already attacked Iran under Bush. Their PM would not be complaining about Obama. 

* ON THE other hand*- if you want to know whom the radicals have a hold on? then look no further- the terrorists have hold on you guys ( govt. too)- as we have seen in Pakistan and other countries - when your and other govt's, capitulating to the mad mullahs and fanatics, and called for a day of protest that only resulted in more Muslim on Muslim crime and millions of dollars of destruction of private and public property. 




> Speaking of wishful thinking, you are desperately hoping that this ad campaign will fail. I say more power to them!



again when you have a fundamentalist attitude- you would be blind to facts. Facts are that Americans don't look at her( Pamela) efforts on such Ads as something they believe in. She is the fringe. Ask your fellow american Pakistani citizens. But do we think Muslims are a violent breed- honestly they do and with some justification no thanks to what we see around the world. I don't and nor am I one who believes in such generalization because I know Indian. Turkish ( few others) Muslims are the most moderate lot. 




> No one has denied that extremists use that word, just as Christian extremists use the word crusade (including George Bush describing the Iraq war!). It would help if you read what is actually written rather than latching on to any anti-Islam propaganda that suits your agenda.



The word crusade is not a fundamentalist christian believe, in fact it is a casual word used when describing a fight for a cause in the american lexicon. The " crusade " as was used centuries ago does not hold the same meaning anymore in our lexicon. " We're crusading against poverty" " I'm on crusade to eliminate crime in my neighborhood" 

Again being a rabid anti american I would not expect you to know that... to you anyone who discuss the subject matter with honesty, he/she is anti-Islam. heh


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> blabbering



Your ignorance of American society is a matter of record. You are 99% Indian and 1% American. The only reason I am bringing this up is because *YOU* made an issue of being an American and knowing American society better than others.

Just because you hide behind the American flag when ranting against Muslims, Pakistan, China, etc. doesn't make your ignorance any less comical. Both myself and the Chinese have repeatedly exposed your pitiful knowledge of American affairs. The influence of the Zionist lobby on America has been discussed here, including analyses by knowledgeable American intellectuals.

As for crusades, the word entered common usage *after* the *C*rusades. It is derived from the word crux, meaning cross, as in 'warrior of the cross'

I suggest you stick to your Indian identity instead of trying to engage in debates as an American. The ignorance is just too painful to witness.


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Your ignorance of American society is a matter of record. You are 99% Indian and 1% American.
> 
> Just because you hide behind the American flag when ranting against Muslims, Pakistan, China, etc. doesn't make your ignorance any less comical. Both myself and the Chinese have repeatedly exposed your pitiful knowledge of American affairs. The influence of the Zionist lobby on America has been discussed here, including analyses by knowledgeable American intellectuals.
> 
> I suggest you stick to your Indian identity instead of trying to engage in debates as an American. The ignorance is just too painful to witness.



And you wonder why we have an opinion of you lot like we do... America bad, Israel bad, Indian bad- I see Zionist everywhere- BUT me good and I know if a word originated in one form then it must be how it it is thought of centuries later. 

Look Dawn is a christian organization in Pakistan? http://archives.dawn.com/archives/65436 T*he Pakistani woman`s crusade against the system*

How's that working on the world stage of public and govt opinion for ya?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> And you wonder why we have an opinion of you lot like we do... America bad, Israel bad, Indian bad- I see Zionist everywhere- BUT me good and I know if a word originated in one form then it must me how it it is thought of centuries later.
> 
> Look Dawn is a christian organization in Pakistan? The Pakistani woman`s crusade against the system | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia | DAWN.COM T*he Pakistani woman`s crusade against the system*
> 
> How's that working on the world stage of public and govt opinion for ya?



Where did I say that America is bad? In fact, I specifically said that ordinary Americans will ask themselves why they are getting dragged in someone else's war.

As for dawn, what point are you trying to make? We all accept that the word crusade retains its benign meaning despite its use by Christian extremists. That's the whole point I was making.


----------



## Bhairava

Developereo said:


> *Where did I say that America is bad? * In fact, I specifically said that ordinary Americans will ask themselves why they are getting dragged in someone else's war.
> 
> As for dawn, what point are you trying to make? We all accept that the word crusade retains its benign meaning despite its use by Christian extremists. That's the whole point I was making.



'Ordinary Americans' elect the system through a painstaking democratic process unlike Pakistan which is owned and ruled by a few feudal families. So criticizing their Govt of being owned by Zionists is akin to criticizing the 'ordinary American' who voted them in the first place.


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Where did I say that America is bad? In fact, I specifically said that ordinary Americans will ask themselves why they are getting dragged in someone else's war.
> 
> As for dawn, what point are you trying to make? We all accept that the word crusade retains its benign meaning despite its use by Christian extremists. That's the whole point I was making.



When I say most Americans don't agree with this woman and her tactics and ad's - you call it my wishful thinking. thereby implying Americans inherently are for such ADS. That is in my book " america bad". 

You sit and say we are under the " hold of" Zionist - and mind you, you don't say that as a compliment... and when I intellectually show you that that's just rubbish? you stoop to childish insults of you no american , you Indian...

you know america so well that that you have no clue that majority of Jews vote Democrat. 

There is none to rare frequency of the word " crusade" used/associated with christian fundamentalist in the US . They will use words tyranny, misuse the word 'freedom' - stuff like that but associating the word Jihad and Crusade as the same was a bad example. Honestly equating Christian fundamentalist as equal in " acts" of ****** -is" is humongous stretch. 

What I don't get is why do you sympathize with that lot? Look _ I was a Hindu before being an atheist. But even when I was hindu , people like bal thackary or hindu fundamentalist who - let alone IF did not do any violent act, but were just bigoted, earned my disdain. 

I don't get how you who hates an entire people- Jews, preaches to others about being intolerant.

*You want to know which fundamentalist has a " hold on" which country? *Then look no further than your countries and others of like mind and constitution. Your govt and others like instead of being responsible , capitulated to the fundamentalist and called for a day of protest and what was the result? Muslims killing Muslims and millions of dollars of private and public property being destroyed!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## xdrive

Muslim radicals/extremists are savages, as we have seen time and time again.


----------



## karan.1970

Developereo said:


> Nobody's deflecting anything. You are blinded by your prejudice.
> 
> As I mentioned, Christian extremists also use the word Crusade to describe their holy way, including official wars waged by the US. Yet, the word crusade hasn't accrued any negative connotations in the Western media.



That name should catch on in the Islamic world just like the world Jihad has caught on in the western world due to misuse of this word by Islamic Fundamentalist..Why blame western press for that.. And I guess your question was the Western world has distorted the meaning of word Jihad to which I clarified that its the Muslim fundamentalists who are responsible for this distortion. Crusades and their treatment is neither here nor there in this...


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> When I say most Americans don't agree with this woman and her tactics and ad's - you call it my wishful thinking. thereby implying Americans inherently are for such ADS. That is in my book " america bad".



Because you don't understand the concept of an ad campaign. When most Americans see that ad, they don't see "Pamela Geller", they just see the message, not the messenger. I doubt that most Americans would even know who Pam Geller is, let alone make the connection with the ad.

What is under discussion here, and for 99% of the ordinary Americans who will see the ad, is the message, not the messenger.



JayAtl said:


> You sit and say we are under the " hold of" Zionist - and mind you, you don't say that as a compliment... and when I intellectually show you that that's just rubbish? you stoop to childish insults of you no american , you Indian...



I honestly can't be bothered rehashing that again. The links and the academic studies have been provided; you can search google or this forum if you like. Or not.



JayAtl said:


> you know america so well that that you have no clue that majority of Jews vote Democrat.



When it comes to foreign policy, especially Israel, there is very little difference between both parties. Also, this discussion is about Zionists, not Jews. Did you know that there are arguably more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jewish ones?



JayAtl said:


> What I don't get is why do you sympathize with that lot?



I don't sympathize with 'that lot', but there is an extremist segment in the West which deliberately equates all Muslims to the extremists. It is that deliberate attempt to conflate the two which I am opposing.

This ad is a perfect example: it paints anyone opposing Israel as a savage jihadist.



JayAtl said:


> I don't get how you who hates an entire people- Jews, preaches to others about being intolerant.



Sigh, here we go again...

Opposing Zionism is *not* anti-Semitism.

Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism


----------



## Bhairava

Developereo said:


> Sigh, here we go again...
> 
> Opposing Zionism is *not* anti-Semitism.
> 
> Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism



In the same sense, opposing Jihadism is not opposing Islam.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Because you don't understand the concept of an ad campaign. When most Americans see that ad, they don't see "Pamela Geller", they just see the message, not the messenger. I doubt that most Americans would even know who Pam Geller is, let alone make the connection with the ad.



I was not only making the claim on her *but also such ads as crossing the line clearly in my initial post*. if only you look before leaping.





> I honestly can't be bothered rehashing that again. The links and the academic studies have been provided; you can search google or this forum if you like. Or not.



Are you serious, you are citing me books and Google search to claim the greatest melting pot that allows even Muslims to be a part of the fabric of our country- is beholden to a singular group? This where you lose on any intellectual thought. They have a such great hold that most Jews vote democrats LOL. They have such great Hold that Iran is yet to be attacked or not once did Americans fight side by side with Israel. 

You want to know which fundamentalist has a " hold on" which country? Then look no further than your countries and others of like mind and constitution. Your govt and others like instead of being responsible , capitulated to the fundamentalist and called for a day of protest and what was the result? Muslims killing Muslims and millions of dollars of private and public property being destroyed!






> When it comes to foreign policy, especially Israel, there is very little difference between both parties. Also, this discussion is about Zionists, not Jews. Did you know that there are arguably more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jewish ones?



I thought you knew america. Majority Jews vote democrats. Democrats is whom Israeli PM dislikes.. so really the best chance of war with Iran, which Zionist would love was Bush or Romney next. Zionist hold would have made sure we did not have any relationship with any Arab countries let alone fund billions to one of them. Zionist Hold at worst would not have supported the Arab spring in Egypt- look what they got instead " the Muslim brotherhood" . The biggest Jewish concentration state NY, where this Ad is placed- If had a Zionist hold then they would NOT have the govt ban it at first. 





> I don't sympathize with 'that lot', but there is an extremist segment in the West which deliberately equates all Muslims to the extremists. It is that deliberate attempt to conflate the two which I am opposing.



Yes you do and you sure have funny way of calling everyone that points out their follies as being anti-Islam. 



> This ad is a perfect example: it paints anyone opposing Israel as a savage jihadist.



To Americans " jihadist= terrorist" . Just like you guys call Israelis savage terrorist on the Palestine issue... pot meet the kettle.. we Americans we don't agree with the ad, but you as a majority sympathize with your fringe





> Sigh, here we go again...
> 
> Opposing Zionism is *not* anti-Semitism.
> 
> Neturei Karta - Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism




you try to paint it under the guise of difference, when called out- but you think/ your posting here always speaks like the state of Israel and an entire people Jews are Zionist.

* the problem we have is* - we never hear you guys protesting when your lot kills Muslims , Christians etc. But get a Muslim dictator murdering his people then you want christian Judea america to come rescue it. " Hey amerika come kill the TTP in my country" "Hey amerika come kill Ghaddfai" " Hey amerika come help the Syrian muslim people"


----------



## Developereo

Bhairava said:


> 'Ordinary Americans' elect the system through a painstaking democratic process unlike Pakistan which is owned and ruled by a few feudal families. So criticizing their Govt of being owned by Zionists is akin to criticizing the 'ordinary American' who voted them in the first place.



Zionism is concerned with foreign policy, whereas most elections are about domestic issues. Barring extreme cases, most voters don't give much weight to a candidate's foreign policy views. The Zionist propaganda is not about winning elections, but giving political cover for foreign policy decisions by the administration.



karan.1970 said:


> Why blame western press for that..



It's not a matter of blaming anyone but recognizing the dominant power of the Western media to set the global tone. For better or for worse, the Western bias permeates the global airwaves.



Bhairava said:


> In the same sense, opposing Jihadism is not opposing Islam.



Opposing radical Islamism is not opposing Islam, I agree. Most of us here oppose the radical Islamists too.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Bhairava

Developereo said:


> Opposing radical Islamism is not opposing Islam, I agree. Most of us here oppose the radical Islamists too.



So well, what are we arguing here ? You agree being anti-jihadism is not being anti-Islam and this talks specifically about jihad. Just like you specifically talk about 'zionism'.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> I was not only making the claim on her *but also such ads as crossing the line clearly in my initial post*. if only you look before leaping.



Once again, the issue is not whether the ad is offensive -- it is running regardless -- but what effect it will have. I like it because it brings Israel center stage, which is where it belongs.



JayAtl said:


> Are you serious, you are citing me books and Google search to claim the greatest melting pot that allows even Muslims to be a part of the fabric of our country- is beholden to a singular group? This where you lose on any intellectual thought. They have a such great hold that most Jews vote democrats LOL. They have such great Hold that Iran is yet to be attacked or not once did Americans fight side by side with Israel.



What does melting pot have anything to do with this? The influence of the Zionist lobby has been studied and debated academically. I can't spoonfeed you but here's one reference (there's plenty more after you digest this):

http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0040.pdf

Happy reading...



JayAtl said:


> You want to know which fundamentalist has a " hold on" which country?



This discussion is about an ad campaign in America.



JayAtl said:


> I thought you knew america. Majority Jews vote democrats. Democrats is whom Israeli PM dislikes.. so really the best chance of war with Iran, which Zionist would love was Bush or Romney next. Zionist hold would have made sure we did not have any relationship with any Arab countries let alone fund billions to one of them. Zionist Hold at worst would not have supported the Arab spring in Egypt- look what they got instead " the Muslim brotherhood" . The biggest Jewish concentration state NY, where this Ad is placed- If had a Zionist hold then they would NOT have the govt ban it at first.



Man, you are obsessed with this 'Jews vote for democrats' thing as if it means anything.

Firstly, as I mentioned, Christian Zionists probably outnumber Jewish Zionists in the US anyway.

Secondly, as I also mentioned, both parties have similar views on Israel. Both parties suck up to AIPAC at every opportunity, so there's not much difference either way.

Finally, you have a quaintly simplistic view of politics. There is something called 'choosing your battles' -- the Israel lobby doesn't need to stick its nose in every tiny affair; only in those that matter dearly to Israel. America's relationship with Muslim countries is complex to the extent that it serves American interests but is constantly jeopardized by the demands of the Israel lobby.



JayAtl said:


> Yes you do and you sure have funny way of calling everyone that points out their follies as being anti-Islam.



Wrong. We criticise people who equate Islamism with Islam. People who do that are either lazy or Islamophobes.

You seem to have a tendency to conflate issues: you equate Islamism with Islam, Zionism with Judaism, etc.



JayAtl said:


> To Americans " jihadist= terrorist" . Just like you guys call Israelis savage terrorist on the Palestine issue... pot meet the kettle..



The question is about jihadist v/s anti-Israel.



JayAtl said:


> you try to paint it under the guise of difference, when called out- but you think/ your posting here always speaks like the state of Israel and an entire people Jews are Zionist.



My example itself proved that "an entire people Jews" are *NOT* Zionists!

Duh!


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Once again, the issue is not whether the ad is offensive -- it is running regardless -- but what effect it will have. I like it because it brings Israel center stage, which is where it belongs.



Dude - it wont have affect on jack. it's running on ad banners on some buses and some trains in one city in one state. Most americans who see won't pay much heed to it...we aint sheep like you know which lot. 



> What does melting pot have anything to do with this? The influence of the Zionist lobby has been studied and debated academically. I can't spoonfeed you but here's one reference (there's plenty more after you digest this):
> 
> http://mearsheimer.uchicago.edu/pdfs/A0040.pdf
> 
> Happy reading...



Don't give me some silly links to broad brush america. I can show you links where so called intellects think 911 was an an inside job. This is pure naive thinking promoted because it fits your bigotary... I gave you several examples to debunk your academic group...




> Man, you are obsessed with this 'Jews vote for democrats' thing as if it means anything.
> 
> Firstly, as I mentioned, Christian Zionists probably outnumber Jewish Zionists in the US anyway.
> 
> Secondly, as I also mentioned, both parties have similar views on Israel. Both parties suck up to AIPAC at every opportunity, so there's not much difference either way.
> 
> Finally, you have a quaintly simplistic view of politics. There is something called 'choosing your battles' -- the Israel lobby doesn't need to stick its nose in every tiny affair; only in those that matter dearly to Israel. America's relationship with Muslim countries is complex to the extent that it serves American interests but is constantly jeopardized by the demands of the Israel lobby.



America sucks up to many groups just as your politicians do. Being pro AIPAC does not mean zionist have a hold on us. This kind of talk reminds us Americans of those translated videos from Z i H A D I's we seen and hear- " Zionist this and Zionist that america"... no difference between their shrilling and yours.




> Wrong. We criticise people who equate Islamism with Islam. People who do that are Islamophobes.
> 
> Y..



Man - here is what you don't get about us: All Americans know is that when your own govt allows/ fans the flame like they did by calling for day of protest, capitulating to mad mullahs or promote jihad groups - when you have such irresponsible people and country and see all the violence - then they go " Hmm majority of these folks are jihad sympathizers..." - at that point islamism and Islam line are blurred. They just hear Allah o Akbar chanted followed by more violence. That you willing to kill others because some idiot drew a cartoon.

Then we never hear you guys protesting when your lot kills Muslims , Christians etc. But get a Muslim dictator murdering his people then you want christian Judea america to come rescue it. " Hey amerika come kill the TTP in my country" "Hey amerika come kill Ghaddfai" " Hey amerika come help the Syrian muslim people"

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> Dude - it wont have affect on jack. it's running on ad banners on some buses and some trains in one city in one state. Most americans who see won't pay much heed to it...we aint sheep like you know which lot.



Ah yes, the "most Americans" part again...

If "most Americans" won't pay much need, then you can rest easy. Why bother?



JayAtl said:


> Don't give me some silly links to broad brush america. I can show you links where so called intellects think 911 was an an inside job. This is pure naive thinking promoted because it fits your bigotary... I gave you several examples to debunk your academic group...



All you did is point out some domestic issues which are irrelevant in the big international picture. As I mentioned, you clearly don't understand the concept of picking your battles.

As for the academic study, you can ignore it and stick your head in the sand like for everything else. The detailed expose it presents will not vanish just because you refuse to accept it. It won't change the reality on the ground.



JayAtl said:


> America sucks up to many groups just as your politicians do. Being pro AIPAC does not mean zionist have a hold on us. This kind of talk reminds us Americans of those translated videos from Z i H A D I's we seen and hear- " Zionist this and Zionist that america"... no difference between their shrilling and yours.



You Indians have your own lot of fanatics whom you believe.

As for America, you need to spend more time there and set aside your Indian prejudices to truly understand the functioning of lobbies in Washington. I will bet that you haven't the faintest clue which lobby is considered the dominant one in Washington!



JayAtl said:


> Man - here is what you don't get about us: All Americans know is that when your own govt allows/ fans the flame like they did by calling for day of protest, capitulating to mad mullahs or promote jihad groups - when you have such irresponsible people and country and see all the violence - then they go " Hmm majority of these folks are jihad sympathizers..." - at that point islamism and Islam line are blurred. They just hear Allah o Akbar chanted followed by more violence. That you willing to kill others because some idiot drew a cartoon.
> 
> Then we never hear you guys protesting when your lot kills Muslims , Christians etc. But get a Muslim dictator murdering his people then you want christian Judea america to come rescue it. " Hey amerika come kill the TTP in my country" "Hey amerika come kill Ghaddfai" " Hey amerika come help the Syrian muslim people"



Once again, you don't know jack about America so don't make a spectacle of yourself with this "us Americans" crap trying to speak for all Americans.

If you spent half as much time learning about the American political process rather than ranting against Muslims, China and Pakistan, you might actually gain some knowledge about the country to which you migrated.

You are completely ignorant of how the political system works and how it is influenced by lobbies. You don't understand the Zionist influence in media, academics and other aspects of American society. Given academic studies detailing that, you chose to ignore the facts. You just spout stock phrases which are fashionable within the Indian-American circuit without understanding what it is you are talking about. You kept harping on about "Jews voting for Democrats" as if that means jack!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## baajey

Safriz said:


> we dont want them to respect us..
> we want them to leave us alone and mind their own business..and stop disrespecting us.


IN THAT CASE , SAY BYE BYE TO FORIEGN AID

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ARCHON



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Ah yes, the "most Americans" part again...
> 
> If "most Americans" won't pay much need, then you can rest easy. Why bother?
> 
> 
> 
> All you did is point out some domestic issues which are irrelevant in the big international picture. As I mentioned, you clearly don't understand the concept of picking your battles.
> 
> As for the academic study, you can ignore it and stick your head in the sand like for everything else. The detailed expose it presents will not vanish just because you refuse to accept it. It won't change the reality on the ground.
> 
> 
> 
> You Indians have your own lot of fanatics whom you believe.
> 
> As for America, you need to spend more time there and set aside your Indian prejudices to truly understand the functioning of lobbies in Washington. I will bet that you haven't the faintest clue which lobby is considered the dominant one in Washington!
> 
> 
> 
> Once again, you don't know jack about America so don't make a spectacle of yourself with this "us Americans" crap trying to speak for all Americans.
> 
> If you spent half as much time learning about the American political process rather than ranting against Muslims, China and Pakistan, you might actually gain some knowledge about the country to which you migrated.
> 
> You are completely ignorant of how the political system works and how it is influenced by lobbies. You don't understand the Zionist influence in media, academics and other aspects of American society. Given academic studies detailing that, you chose to ignore the facts. You just spout stock phrases which are fashionable within the Indian-American circuit without understanding what it is you are talking about. You kept harping on about "Jews voting for Democrats" as if that means jack!




I would educate you on our system but then we would get a "Zionist Zionist hold everywhere" back. You are no different than Pamela. We hear your bad america, bad India , bad Europe bad Israel... yeah yeah we get it. You win!

I ask again- how is it working for you on the world stage? convince anyone other than fellow fringe?


----------



## Bhairava

^^ Russia should sue the above mentioned group for causing libel to one of their most cherished products - the Ak-47.


----------



## Mercenary

These kinds of stunts are to be expected.

After the all terrorist attacks US and West have suffered by the hands of these Islamic Terrorists and now with the riots that are occurring in the Muslim World.

There is a cause and effect.

Muslims cannot expect to do all these things and expect to have a good image in the west.

And trolls like Pamela Geller feeds on this.


----------



## VCheng

Developereo said:


> *This is a BRILLIANT development. I wish more such ads would appear all over the place because it brings Israel front and center into the debate*, which is where it belongs. The smarter Zionists have been working tirelessly to shift the focus off Israel and portray this as a fight between the West and Islam when, in point of fact, Israel is at the core of the conflict. It's heartwarming to see these bungling extremists undo all the clever work of the smarter Zionists.
> 
> These ads show loud and clear to the American public that their conflict with Muslims is driven by the fanatical Zionists within their own midst. *This ad will actually backfire as more and more Americans ask themselves, "why should we support Israel? why do American have to die in their fight?"*
> ................



What would you say about the likelihood of the US public deciding that Israel is indeed to be strongly supported since they are fighting the same radical enemy that is also attacking USA? Then what?


----------



## fallstuff

Hindu BJP boys IN Khakis talking about someone else's extremism. 


Lord have mercy on these poor souls.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Hyperion

Mercenary said:


> There is a cause and effect..


True! However, you did skirt around the true cause......


----------



## Don Jaguar

ARCHON said:


>



O you idiot 99% of these attacks happened in muslim countries.

Muslims are victims in this case.

Western media playing with words as always.


----------



## Sashan

Don Jaguar said:


> We entered in your house with your permission (visa).




By entering our house, you are agreeing to abide by our laws and constitution right? 

I do not condone these miscreants' act. But I have seen enough living here - some idiotic church members protesting in funerals of dead soldiers who fought for the country and died,which made my blood curdle or some idiotic church members burning Koran knowing very well that it will endanger the lives of the U.S soldiers in Afghanistan. There are miscreants but ignore them and move on.


----------



## Mercenary

Don Jaguar said:


> O you idiot 99% of these attacks happened in muslim countries.
> 
> Muslims are victims in this case.
> 
> Western media playing with words as always.



Its a Fox News stat.

What do you expect


----------



## Developereo

VCheng said:


> What would you say about the likelihood of the US public deciding that Israel is indeed to be strongly supported since they are fighting the same radical enemy that is also attacking USA? Then what?



Israel's supporters have been pushing that line since day one, long before 9/11. Some people fall for it, but most people are smart enough to see that Israel does its own share of provocation to prolong and inflame the conflict. These ads reaffirm that fact.


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Israel's supporters have been pushing that line since day one, long before 9/11. Some people fall for it, but most people are smart enough to see that Israel does its own share of provocation to prolong and inflame the conflict. These ads reaffirm that fact.



In your book people are only smart enough to dismiss- when it suits your meme, otherwise when we say ' most' Americans dismiss the ad's - you call it wishful thinking ... hilarious .


----------



## Developereo

JayAtl said:


> In your book people are only smart enough to dismiss- when it suits your meme, otherwise when we say ' most' Americans dismiss the ad's - you call it wishful thinking ... hilarious .



Again, I ask. If you feel that most Americans will dismiss these ads, then why are you so worked up about it?

I hope these ads get as much attention as possible. They expose the true face of Zionism and, the best part is, it's Zionist money scoring an own goal!


----------



## JayAtl

Developereo said:


> Again, I ask. If you feel that most Americans will dismiss these ads, then why are you so worked up about it?
> 
> I hope these ads get as much attention as possible. They expose the true face of Zionism and, the best part is, it's Zionist money scoring an own goal!


 

worked up-? it's a topic of discussion. 

Only exposure the world gets-is about radicals on your side that " so called" main streamers like you entertain.


----------



## Viper0011.

Bhairava said:


> You cant browbeat anyone into respecting your religion. reform from within and respect would come automatically.



Allow let me correct you and bring you into the sad reality. Hindu-ism is just as screwed up Christianity or Islam. I can list many events where Hindus killed Christians and Muslims without really a cause. So where's the reform in the Hindu community?? Similarly, Christianity ....you think all Saints exist there? Now let's go to Judia-ism...... didn't you guys support Palestine for the longest time as Israel was violating human rights on hourly basis?? The fact is, no religion teaches to kill, to harm human beings, to disrespect others feelings, to break people's hearts....YET all the followers do that!!!! So here's your answer.

Then a bit detailed answer is that there is NO such thing as a reform in the religion. Some morons living in the caves in Afghanistan on 9-11 gave the best chance to certain people who wanted another cold war type of an Enemy. 
9-11 was a tragic event cuz it killed civilians by terrorists who publicized themselves as Muslims. But their acts that day were ALL against Islam's core teachings, similar to the Christian guy in Norway who killed so many in the name of the religion or the IRA or the Oklahoma city bomber.... all of these people's acts were against the core teachings of Christianity and against Jesus' acts.
Similarly, I think destroying Barbari masjid, burning of Christians and Muslim villages and raping Kashmiri women and killing males there.....is probably against the core principles of Hindu-ism. Similarly, my Jewish friends are very loving and respectful and caring. But stuff that some Jews do in Israel to Palestinians....I know it's not the religion....It's the people that have screws lose in their brains!! 


But, many in Western politics still utilize 9-11 (a sad tragic day in human history) as an opportunity to take revenge, control and humiliate a religion of 1.5 billion people and reinvent cold war, this time, not with a country but against 1.5 billion people!!!

Every religion has fundamentals....some come on tv and talk about God in a suit and smile and talk about 'freeing up' countries and support the killing of civilians as 'God work' and justify it with phrases from the Bible. While other talk about how a greater map will be formed as God said that the greater Israel...some want their lands back from Jews....then there are some who think bringing down World Trade center and killing of innocents will result in Islamic supremacy or to make a 'point'.....and then some talk about how Hindu-mata needs to be the only one surviving and ruling.... 

Then there are some that act stupid (like the muslims these days who are involved in the violent protests or have committed violent acts) and make a fool out of them, instead of ignoring the video and the drama that follows. 
To me, all these sides are wrong. Religious fundamentalism is wrong from its core fundamentals in ANY religion. ALL religions need reforms and rather quickly as the world seems to be becoming a more dangerous place to live every day!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## VCheng

Developereo said:


> Israel's supporters have been pushing that line since day one, long before 9/11. Some people fall for it, but most people are smart enough to see that Israel does its own share of provocation to prolong and inflame the conflict. These ads reaffirm that fact.



You are correct that Israel's supporters have been pushing their agenda for a long time before 9/11, but after 9/11, and the recent upsurge in the displays of society-wide hooliganism and fundamentalism in many Muslim countries including Pakistan, there is a real chance that they might succeed. It might be obvious to you, but:

_"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."_ - Vladimir Lenin.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Banu Umayyah

karan.1970 said:


> Seriously ?? You blame the West for spoiling the meaning of Jihad..?? Personally, I would have been more inclined to put the blame on the wide eyed extremist mullahs who normally scream out this word before blowing themselves up in a crowd of innocent men women and children...


Who the **** would scream jihad before blowing them selves up? lol that doesn't make any sense. Have you ever seen one do that somewhere other than a Hollywood movie or in your recurring nightmares?
Also, no one is claiming the the meaning of jihad was corrupted. every Muslim knows what it means, its just in western media its 99% percent associated with religious war when in fact the original word had a wider meaning.


----------



## anon45

Juice said:


> The best way to answer this is to make them look like the nuts....as opposed to making them look right.


This would be the best way, but the muslim radicals are savage, do want to bring the system back to the 11th century etc etc. so I doubt they are capable of answering in that fashion. Instead we will see more threats and more deaths.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Viper0011.

anon45 said:


> This would be the best way, but the muslim radicals are savage, do want to bring the system back to the 11th century etc etc. so I doubt they are capable of answering in that fashion. Instead we will see more threats and more deaths.



Well my man, if we the AMERICANS keep fighting Israel's war for them.....the crazy saga continues. We 'The AMERICANS' need to allign our national security and interests FIRST (and trust me, fighting Israel's not one of them as a common American politicians makes us believe). We need to root out Al-Qaeda, we need to work on Sudan and Yemen so Al-Qaeda doesn't take roots and we need to 'work' with the rest of the middle east, not go after every single country unless the UN and Arabs support it. It's their region. We need JOBS in the US. We need Healthcare and a better future for the VETS who's sacrificed their young days and body parts trying to protect America with their blood and kids of the fallen, who lost lives trying to save ours!!!! We need to work on our American interests before anyone else's. We need to BRING our boys home and leave this f'd up region, yet maintain our Navy and Air force assets so everyone knows we'll retaliate IF provoked. But we are there to support friends / allies also. We are not there just as a war mongering nation or a country who's just there because we are against Islam (this is what people think right now and this is NOT a good long term strategy). So we need to think AMERICA before anything else. God bless America!!


----------



## Developereo

VCheng said:


> You are correct that Israel's supporters have been pushing their agenda for a long time before 9/11, but after 9/11, and the recent upsurge in the displays of society-wide hooliganism and fundamentalism in many Muslim countries including Pakistan, there is a real chance that they might succeed. It might be obvious to you, but:



Most people already accept that the radical fanatics on both sides are wrong and they are slugging it out in the mud. Reasonable people are trying to turn down the temperature and here comes another set of fanatics adding fuel to the fire. The Zionists have been portraying themselves as being above the fray when we all know they are just as batsh*t crazy as any other fanatic. It's good that they are getting involved in this; this puts it all in perspective.



VCheng said:


> _"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."_ - Vladimir Lenin.



I thought Himmler said that. Still, it's true no matter who said it.


----------



## Awesome

I would like to see an ad be put up that says "Support Jihad. Defeat Israel".

You will see US justice system have a lot of problem with that.

I would like to see an ad be put up that says "Support Jihad. Defeat Israel".

You will see US justice system have a lot of problem with that.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## VCheng

Developereo said:


> ............
> I thought Himmler said that. Still, it's true no matter who said it.



The roots of the saying lie in the Latin phrase_ "Recubo insquequo decet verum"_ (Lie until it becomes truth) which was said by Lenin, and then quoted by Goebbels, Hilter's propaganda minister.



Asim Aquil said:


> I would like to see an ad be put up that says "Support Jihad. Defeat Israel".
> 
> You will see US justice system have a lot of problem with that.
> 
> ..................



I am sure such an advert can be taken out by anyone who can pay the rates.


----------



## karan.1970

Asim Aquil said:


> I would like to see an ad be put up that says "Support Jihad. Defeat Israel".
> 
> You will see US justice system have a lot of problem with that.



Thats because some muslims have managed to make Jihad a dirty word, associated with terrorism.. Put up an Ad that says, "Support Islam, defeat Israel", and I am virtually sure there will be no problems..


----------



## vsdoc

Been interacting closely with an American doctor (gora) over the past week. Over lunch this cartoon and movie stuff came up.

She made a very pertinent statement.

She says before 9/11 Americans were much too inward looking and cut off from the reality of the rest of the world.

9/11 forced them to finally acknowledge that there is a world beyond the USA.

And it was the day their blind faith in their invulnerability died.

She said that American kids nowadays do not take their security for granted.

But she also said that today more than ever Americans feel more secure than before.

So what if they need to trample on the rights or sentiments of others to do it if they must.

I like that attitude. It is realism and wielding your power for your own good first.

I wish India learns from countries like the US, Germany and France rather than exposing our soft belly to every psycho within and without.


----------



## karan.1970

Banu Umayyah said:


> Who the **** would scream jihad before blowing them selves up? lol that doesn't make any sense. Have you ever seen one do that somewhere other than a Hollywood movie or in your recurring nightmares?
> Also, no one is claiming the the meaning of jihad was corrupted. every Muslim knows what it means, its just in western media its 99% percent associated with religious war when in fact the original word had a wider meaning.



Well, can you blame the west for the myopic view they have on the word Jihad.. After all, their exposure to this word is mostly at the hands of those wide eyed Mullahs who use this word in association with elimination of kaffirs and fight against Christianity and Jews...


----------



## vsdoc

With 1.6 billion and growing, why is Islam still so evangelical and confrontationalist?

I mean, everyone realizes that Islam is the newest on the block and the instructions per the Book to spread, but is there more to it?

Is it the fact that no other faith is as judgmental?

Or the fact that no other faith looks predominantly without at what the rest of the world is doing or should do, versus within at what is happening with those who already believe - and what they believe in?


----------



## W.11

Juice said:


> Let's say I move into your house and ask you to "leave me alone"...(and yeah...works both ways)



dont get it, you moved into iraq, afghanistan and say leave me alone?


----------



## funtoosh

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3434229 said:


> dont get it, you moved into iraq, afghanistan and say leave me alone?



are any othe above countries have anything to do with you? NO.


----------



## takeiteasy

the problem is, thanks to islamists and political islamic aspirations, the supposed kufr(non-muslims especially Jews and Christians who takes high offense usually) are uniting as if of a iminent war between muslims and non-muslim world. for non-muslims, jihad is the violent aggression which lasted for centuries be it arab raids in europe or the destruction of sindhu civilization by savages and the Ilslamofascism,Islamic terrorism against Western World.

When British ruled India, they see Indians(commoners) as 2nd class. but, British don't destroy Hindu or Muslim religion or religious sites. they tried to bring education,transportation(railway) and developments. so, definitely Islamic invaders have a Political agenda which made them attack India's religious system,culture. Islamism assumed as a enemy by many those(like in US) who don't even are victims of Islamic savagery.


----------



## OrionHunter

Nostradamus predicted a clash of civilizations, a war between the Christians and Muslims. That it seems is coming to pass.


----------



## takeiteasy

OrionHunter said:


> Nostradamus predicted a clash of civilizations, a war between the Christians and Muslims. That it seems is coming to pass.



There is no way India be a mute spectator. because, common Hindu notion on political Islam is much more against than that Christians or as Jews sees it. But, due to the tolerant, live and let live policy makes Hindus tolerate. but, the Sanghie/RSS online members usually spew their venom against sacha mazhab often which reveals the real opinion.


----------



## funtoosh

takeiteasy said:


> There is no way India be a mute spectator. because, common Hindu notion on political Islam is much more against than that Christians or as Jews sees it. But, due to the tolerant, live and let live policy makes Hindus tolerate. but, the Sanghie/RSS online members usually spew their venom against sacha mazhab often which reveals the real opinion.



global warming will take care of it all.


----------



## Viper0011.

vsdoc said:


> I wish India learns from countries like the US, Germany and France rather than exposing our soft belly to every psycho within and without.



Are you comparing your terrorist country to the US, France, Germany....first stop killing Christians, Muslims and Raping Kashmiri women and killing men and children in Kashmir. THEN you can write crap like this. Jihad and such crap started a few decades ago, you guys have been mass murdering minorities within India and raping & killing Kashmiris for decades. There should be a total BAN on dealing with India just like Iran, until you fix your human rights situation and STOP killing innocents!!!! There are times when you wonder, "look who's talking"



takeiteasy said:


> the problem is, thanks to islamists and political islamic aspirations, the supposed kufr(non-muslims especially Jews and Christians who takes high offense usually) are uniting as if of a iminent war between muslims and non-muslim world. for non-muslims, jihad is the violent aggression which lasted for centuries be it arab raids in europe or the destruction of sindhu civilization by savages and the Ilslamofascism,Islamic terrorism against Western World.
> 
> When British ruled India, they see Indians(commoners) as 2nd class. but, British don't destroy Hindu or Muslim religion or religious sites. they tried to bring education,transportation(railway) and developments. so, definitely Islamic invaders have a Political agenda which made them attack India's religious system,culture. Islamism assumed as a enemy by many those(like in US) who don't even are victims of Islamic savagery.



You may want to talk about why there are murders and brutal killings by Hindu mobs in India??? Both Christians and Muslims get killed for no reason....villages get burnt with people in them......and you have the guts to write this crap here? Go have some humanity within your environment first and then talk about others. It's very easy to blame others or act like you are the **** when you are a part of a huge problem. The UN should impose sanctions on India and this needed to happen decades ago.

Allow let me correct you and bring you into the sad reality. Hindu-ism is just as screwed up Christianity or Islam. I can list many events where Hindus killed Christians and Muslims without really a cause. So where's the reform in the Hindu community?? Similarly, Christianity ....you think all Saints exist there? Now let's go to Judia-ism...... didn't you guys support Palestine for the longest time as Israel was violating human rights on hourly basis?? The fact is, no religion teaches to kill, to harm human beings, to disrespect others feelings, to break people's hearts....YET all the followers do that!!!! So here's your answer.

Then a bit detailed answer is that there is NO such thing as a reform in the religion. Some morons living in the caves in Afghanistan on 9-11 gave the best chance to certain people who wanted another cold war type of an Enemy. 
9-11 was a tragic event cuz it killed civilians by terrorists who publicized themselves as Muslims. But their acts that day were ALL against Islam's core teachings, similar to the Christian guy in Norway who killed so many in the name of the religion or the IRA or the Oklahoma city bomber.... all of these people's acts were against the core teachings of Christianity and against Jesus' acts.
Similarly, I think destroying Barbari masjid, burning of Christians and Muslim villages and raping Kashmiri women and killing males there.....is probably against the core principles of Hindu-ism. Similarly, my Jewish friends are very loving and respectful and caring. But stuff that some Jews do in Israel to Palestinians....I know it's not the religion....It's the people that have screws lose in their brains!! 


But, many in Western politics still utilize 9-11 (a sad tragic day in human history) as an opportunity to take revenge, control and humiliate a religion of 1.5 billion people and reinvent cold war, this time, not with a country but against 1.5 billion people!!!

Every religion has fundamentals....some come on tv and talk about God in a suit and smile and talk about 'freeing up' countries and support the killing of civilians as 'God work' and justify it with phrases from the Bible. While other talk about how a greater map will be formed as God said that the greater Israel...some want their lands back from Jews....then there are some who think bringing down World Trade center and killing of innocents will result in Islamic supremacy or to make a 'point'.....and then some talk about how Hindu-mata needs to be the only one surviving and ruling.... 

Then there are some that act stupid (like the muslims these days who are involved in the violent protests or have committed violent acts) and make a fool out of them, instead of ignoring the video and the drama that follows. 
To me, all these sides are wrong. Religious fundamentalism is wrong from its core fundamentals in ANY religion. ALL religions need reforms and rather quickly as the world seems to be becoming a more dangerous place to live every day!!!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vsdoc

orangzaib said:


> Are you comparing your terrorist country to the US, France, Germany....first stop killing Christians, Muslims and Raping Kashmiri women and killing men and children in Kashmir. THEN you can write crap like this. Jihad and such crap started a few decades ago, you guys have been mass murdering minorities within India and raping & killing Kashmiris for decades. There should be a total BAN on dealing with India just like Iran, until you fix your human rights situation and STOP killing innocents!!!! There are times when you wonder, "look who's talking"



This thread is not about India is it? Why get defensive brother?

I will not get pulled into your crude bait.


----------



## Viper0011.

vsdoc said:


> This thread is not about India is it? Why get defensive brother?
> 
> I will not get pulled into your crude bait.



Instead of ignoring or diverting the question......trying answering it. This is what you guys do, either divert or create another issue. This thread is ALSO not about France, Germany and India...yet you brought all of them in it and made India look like you are at the same level when you are still and will always be a corrupt country with worst human rights record trying to look what 
you can never be (i.e. the US, France and Germany).First stop killing Christians, Muslims and Raping Kashmiri women and killing men and children in Kashmir. THEN you can write crap like this. 
Jihad and such crap started a few decades ago, you guys have been mass murdering minorities within India and raping & killing Kashmiris for decades. There should be a total BAN on dealing with India just like Iran, until you fix your human rights situation and STOP killing innocents!!!! There are times when you read these posts by people like you and just wonder: "look who's talking

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JayAtl

Asim Aquil said:


> I would like to see an ad be put up that says "Support Jihad. Defeat Israel".
> 
> You will see US justice system have a lot of problem with that.
> 
> I would like to see an ad be put up that says "Support Jihad. Defeat Israel".
> 
> You will see US justice system have a lot of problem with that.



put it up- it is now court protected right.


----------



## JayAtl

orangzaib said:


> Instead of ignoring or diverting the question......trying answering it. This is what you guys do, either divert or create another issue. This thread is ALSO not about France, Germany and India...yet you brought all of them in it and made India look like you are at the same level when you are still and will always be a corrupt country with worst human rights record trying to look what
> you can never be (i.e. the US, France and Germany).First stop killing Christians, Muslims and Raping Kashmiri women and killing men and children in Kashmir. THEN you can write crap like this.
> Jihad and such crap started a few decades ago, you guys have been mass murdering minorities within India and raping & killing Kashmiris for decades. There should be a total BAN on dealing with India just like Iran, until you fix your human rights situation and STOP killing innocents!!!! There are times when you wonder, "look who's talking



State department meet citizen. citizen meet state department. Of course keep in mind this guy's esteemed knowledge of history and region tells him (a s he has claimed)- 'Jihad only started few decades ago'.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Juice

[:::~Spartacus~:::];3434229 said:


> dont get it, you moved into iraq, afghanistan and say leave me alone?


 It's called war. If you wanna declare war on us...bring it. (and while your at it....check wiki for definitions of "war" and "immigration")

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JayAtl

Juice said:


> It's called war. If you wanna declare war on us...bring it. (and while your at it....check wiki for definitions of "war" and "immigration")



Let's be candid and honest- when was the last time you ever had any OIC member ever dared to declare war on the US. They only want us to fight their battles. Look at Syria- thousands of Muslims killed and they are once again begging christian Judea US to come stop them from being slaughtered. or when one of them attacks another like the Gulf war, the great OIC members want the US to bail them out. Hey~ But they do have cool OIC meeting rooms though. 

Let's face it every member of the OIC is woefully week militarily

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## xyxmt

when you do what you did in Pakistan, Libya and Egypt...they have rights to do what they want in their country. We should question our irrationality before questioning someone else.


----------



## Viper0011.

JayAtl said:


> State department meet citizen. citizen meet state department. Of course keep in mind this guy's esteemed knowledge of history and region tells him (a s he has claimed)- 'Jihad only started few decades ago'.



I have NO idea what you are referring to when you bring in the 'state dept meet the citizen' deal. Are you replying to multiple people? I am not sure if I understood as it was irrelevant. Explain if it meant something.

The 'Jihad' was started a few decades ago...was a reference to the current state of what Jihad has become after the Afghan war in the late 70's. This whole crap that got innocent people killed on 9-11....was from the militarization of the Islamists / Fundamentalists against the soviet. This was the worst idea ever as the whole world's paying the price for arming these crazy maniacs with weapons!!! 

By the way, the point was, before the current state of Jihad..there were mass killings in India. They've not stopped....and there were many Christians killed just a few months ago. So to me, the fundamental hindus are doing whatever the equivalent of Jihad is in India too....isn't that the same? Killing innocent people for STUPID religions ideologies?? I don't see people talking about how many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in India, women raped in different parts of India, etc, etc?? I think that should be a topic on some forum too.


----------



## JayAtl

orangzaib said:


> I have NO idea what you are referring to when you bring in the 'state dept meet the citizen' deal. Are you replying to multiple people? I am not sure if I understood as it was irrelevant. Explain if it meant something.
> 
> The 'Jihad' was started a few decades ago...was a reference to the current state of what Jihad has become after the Afghan war in the late 70's. This whole crap that got innocent people killed on 9-11....was from the militarization of the Islamists / Fundamentalists against the soviet. This was the worst idea ever as the whole world's paying the price for arming these crazy maniacs with weapons!!!
> 
> By the way, the point was, before the current state of Jihad..there were mass killings in India. They've not stopped....and there were many Christians killed just a few months ago. So to me, the fundamental hindus are doing whatever the equivalent of Jihad is in India too....isn't that the same? Killing innocent people for STUPID religions ideologies?? I don't see people talking about how many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in India, women raped in different parts of India, etc, etc?? I think that should be a topic on some forum too.



you put a whole of gibberish and whole lot lumping the few and far in between Hindu fundamentalist with worldwide jihad you speak of going on now. There are no mass killings in India and if it were you would have have had world wide attention on it. There have been communal issue but nothing on the scope of what the world has seen by Islamist. The facts and stats just show it. 

Now I've read very many of your posts and they have the same theme ( anti India theme)- so not fooling anyone. Btw Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence ... funding began with $20&#8211;30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per .... Under the Reagan administration and not in the " 70's" .


----------



## Viper0011.

vsdoc said:


> With 1.6 billion and growing, why is Islam still so evangelical and confrontationalist?
> 
> I mean, everyone realizes that Islam is the newest on the block and the instructions per the Book to spread, but is there more to it?
> Is it the fact that no other faith is as judgmental?
> Or the fact that no other faith looks predominantly without at what the rest of the world is doing or should do, versus within at what is happening with those who already believe - and what they believe in?



Are you saying Christianity, Judiaism or Hinduism don't convert people or force their opinion in different ways? I agree with you on one point, Muslims tend to get emotional and respond defensively. But the rest of the drama is the same in every religion. This is WHY IMO Church and State should be separate. What you believe in is YOUR business. No one else should be involved in it and you shouldn't enforce it to anyone else either.

If you take a look at it, Hinduism has it's issues too. How many hundreds of thousands of people have been killed in India, both minorities, Christians and Muslims. What's that telling you? "Confrontational" or "Murderer"? The point is, EVERY religion has *****d up fractions in it. And that's sad. Everyone should be allowed to practice what they believe in, respect others and live life peacefully. When innocent civilians like 9-11 get killed, THEN you have terrorism to deal with. Under ANY religion, NO ONE should EVER kill or harm another individual in the name of religion. Doing so should be dealt with by giving capital punishment.
Similarly, muslims who've been demonstrating against the movies and in a violent way...should be tried in courts. Speaking and protesting is every human's right. But killing and violence is NOT. It's a crime!!


----------



## vsdoc

orangzaib said:


> There are times when you read these posts by people like you and just wonder: "look who's talking



That's a significant step up from what the rest of the non-muslim world wonders when any Muslim - radical or moderate/liberal - talks about tolerance and peace and co-existence.

Yet we sit and discuss do we not?

Nothing is gained from ranting and getting defensive brother.

Look within. Stop looking around and lashing out.

Btw, I am Zoroastrian. Stop referring to me as "you Hindus" everytime you engage me. Not that it bothers me - just clearing some of your many misconceptions.


----------



## JayAtl

^^^ that guy has one theme and whole lot of gibberish behind it.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Perceptron

vsdoc said:


> That's a significant step up from what the rest of the non-muslim world wonders when any Muslim - radical or moderate/liberal - talks about tolerance and peace and co-existence.
> 
> Yet we sit and discuss do we not?
> 
> Nothing is gained from ranting and getting defensive brother.
> 
> Look within. Stop looking around and lashing out.
> 
> *Btw, I am Zoroastrian. Stop referring to me as "you Hindus" everytime you engage me. Not that it bothers me - just clearing some of your many misconceptions.*


It doesn't matter to a man from the Religion of Peace hailing from the Land of the Pure does it ? A Non-Muslim is a Kuffar for the followers of Mo, the rest are just labels like those on Pet Jars.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## sarthak

orangzaib said:


> Instead of ignoring or diverting the question......trying answering it. This is what you guys do, either divert or create another issue. This thread is ALSO not about France, Germany and India...yet you brought all of them in it and made India look like you are at the same level when you are still and will always be a corrupt country with worst human rights record trying to look what
> you can never be (i.e. the US, France and Germany).First stop killing Christians, Muslims and Raping Kashmiri women and killing men and children in Kashmir. THEN you can write crap like this.
> Jihad and such crap started a few decades ago, you guys have been mass murdering minorities within India and raping & killing Kashmiris for decades. There should be a total BAN on dealing with India just like Iran, until you fix your human rights situation and STOP killing innocents!!!! There are times when you read these posts by people like you and just wonder: "look who's talking



You have no idea what you are talking about do you? Do some research before writing nonsense. First of all , hardly any anti christian riots have ever taken place in India. They were mere small instances that took place in only one indian state, Orissa and hardly 10 Christians died in those attacks. It is regrettable and sad , but that's the number of minorities killed in Muslim countries every week ,so ***** please , we are on totally different levels when it comes to respecting our minorities. As for anti muslim riots , i'm sure you haven't bothered to find out that the 2nd hindu-muslim riots , which took place in 2002 , were started when a muslim mob burnt a train full of hindu pilgrims. The bombay riots were started when some muslim groups in Mumbai started attacking hindus in response to the demolition of babri masjid , which , regrettable as it is , doesn't give the right to muslims to start killing people. 

India and one of the worst human rights record? You are firstly not american , and then , either you are totally misinformed and stupid, or just try to act like one. 

"Freedom in the World is a yearly survey and report by U.S.-based Freedom House that attempts to measure the degree of democracy and political freedom in every nation and significant disputed territories around the world."
Freedom in the World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Please look up India's status and then just shut up.


----------



## Viper0011.

JayAtl said:


> you put a whole of gibberish and whole lot lumping the few and far in between Hindu fundamentalist with worldwide jihad you speak of going on now. There are no mass killings in India and if it were you would have have had world wide attention on it. There have been communal issue but nothing on the scope of what the world has seen by Islamist. The facts and stats just show it.
> 
> Now I've read very many of your posts and they have the same theme ( anti India theme)- so not fooling anyone.
> 
> Btw Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence ... funding began with $20&#8211;30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per .... Under the Reagan administration and not in the " 70's" .



Allow me to help you with a few things:
1) Anti-Indian agenda: Incorrect. I actually would LIKE to see peace between India and Pakistan. I think it'll save the world and millions of people. Second, I have a ton of friends from India. BUT, they call 'crap...'crap'. You guys here, try to portray India as the ultimate country on the planet and everything else that's not. I can give you a list of bad business practices by Indian businessmen in the US and people who offer open bribes to get business from local American companies. It's sad. 
Similarly, you guys come on different sites and demonize Islam and especially the Pakistanis due to your personal bias and even the Americans at points.....compare to you, I'll speak the truth no matter what. If that makes me 'Anti India' in someone's eyes....that's fine. 
You have a right to have an opinion. I have mine. I call that 'correction' to biased views being presented and I live in the most modern democracy the world's ever known so its my right given to me by my constitution that stands for human freedom. You are entitled to yours so use it as much as you can.
Btw, IF you read my posts (you said you have but I don't think you have), there are PLENTY of posts that criticize Pakistanis, Muslims on certain issues and actually talk about learning from India's educational experience towards growth. You conveniently forgot about those it seems like. I will ALWAYS give credit to where it deserves. That's just me.

When I criticize the Pakistanis and other Muslims and there are members here from that background and a ton of them, they don't come back with stupid high school arguments or call me arrogant, etc, etc. They actually click 'Thanks' on the criticism and debate nicely. You guys get SOOO emotional and so many of you come back and answer with utter nonsense at times. 

Last but not least.....you've heard or seen about the 9-11 terror attacks in NYC on the media and in news.....I've seen those barbaric acts IN PERSON. You have NO IDEA how I feel about this terrorism crap. I've lived and seen the pain that I'd rather not talk about. The WORST thing you can EVER see or experience is when people are begging for their lives or jumping from floors down to take that .0001% chance that they know doesn't exist !!!! If I can, I'd wipe out Al-Qaeda like a child erases a name with an eraser on the slate!!! There are VERY few things I hate in the world. These bastard* sitting in the caves in ******* are on top of my hate list. So hopefully, you got my drift.

Oh, btw, thanks for mentioning Operation Cyclone. You should try to avoid discussing these kind of details on here. You don't know what crosses the line from a 'reference' to 'national security detail'. Just a friendly advice


----------



## Viper0011.

sarthak said:


> "Freedom in the World is a yearly survey and report by U.S.-based Freedom House that attempts to measure the degree of democracy and political freedom in every nation and significant disputed territories around the world."
> 
> Freedom in the World - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Please look up India's status and then just shut up.



Everyone knows Wikipedia is people's media. Everyone also knows that the few organizations you can name....are REALLY the lobby owned ones. 

Here's what I am talking about and the following include links from Indian media too:

India court sentences 31 to life for killing Muslims in Gujarat - Los Angeles Times

India: Gujarat Officials Took Part in Anti-Muslim Violence | Human Rights Watch

Cops rewarded for killing muslims in india - YouTube

What it means o be a Muslim in India - YouTube

Agonies of kashmiri MUSLIMS.. - YouTube


----------



## Mav3rick

Bhairava said:


> You cant browbeat anyone into respecting your religion. reform from within and respect would come automatically.



If I post an ad of a Hindu priest wearing that orange dhoti and covered in hindu markings drinking cow piss right from the source and stating "Don't drink piss, drink water.....mineral water", would that be me being a bigot for purposely instigating Hindus, even moderate ones, or would the blame be with Hindus for reacting to that ad? 

Try to reason with the thing that is supposedly in your head. If you can use it at all!


----------



## Mav3rick

Juice said:


> Let's say I move into your house and ask you to "leave me alone"...(and yeah...works both ways)



You probably wanted to say, "I move into a house (which you forcibly invaded after defeating the real owners) after purchasing/renting a portion of it, paying all my dues and then ask you to "leave me alone"."



karan.1970 said:


> US army is in Pakistan?? Didnt know that ...



You can not even understand the difference b/w a country and a religious following! Not surprising really!


----------



## Perceptron

Mav3rick said:


> If I post an ad of a Hindu priest wearing that orange dhoti and covered in hindu markings drinking cow piss right from the source and stating "Don't drink piss, drink water.....mineral water", would that be me being a bigot for purposely instigating Hindus, even moderate ones, or would the blame be with Hindus for reacting to that ad?
> 
> Try to reason with the thing that is supposedly in your head. If you can use it at all!


One thing for sure, we won't be burning embassies, putting bounties and calling for jihadists like AQ and Taleban to kill nor would we be killing other Hindus/Muslims/Christians/Sikhs/Zorastrians/Martians/Klingons for the hate message. The worst would be destruction of public property and legal notices slapped on the instigators of hate. The other extreme reaction would be what came out in 1927 as a reaction to the similar deed by a Mo follower when the reaction came out in the form of Rangeela Rasool.


----------



## Mav3rick

Juice said:


> We do seem to get the best of the migrants.....better oppurtunity? Large oceans on our border? The muslims in the US are perhaps the best ambassoders of their faith...we should send them back to teach the others.



Right back at ya, the Americans that we get here are quite 'human' too, I wonder what happens to them when they return to America!


----------



## Mav3rick

Perceptron said:


> One thing for sure, we won't be burning embassies, putting bounties and calling for jihadists like AQ and Taleban to kill nor would we be killing other Hindus/Muslims/Christians/Sikhs/Zorastrians/Martians/Klingons for the hate message. The worst would be destruction of public property and legal notices slapped on the instigators of hate. The other extreme reaction would be what came out in 1927 as a reaction to the similar deed by a Mo follower when the reaction came out in the form of Rangeela Rasool.



Your attitude would change with continued humiliation, disrespect and savagery. Just as an example, have you forgotten the need for freedom of the IndoPak sub continent? Was it all peaceful, the struggle? Why was there a need to do all that?

Don't confuse clash of religions with clash of civilization. It is a continued war on Islam.



Juice said:


> Had the same discussion here....not really anti-migrant myself....who migrates? Those who see a better future....those with b@lls. The lazy idiots sit in their ***** with no imagination. The migrants are those who say "Hell no" and leave. How much gumption do you need? A lot! *One reason the US is powerful is we are composed of those who don't take it sitting down.* (this is @ Safriz....forgot to quote)



Yeah, we know. You travel all the way to Afghanistan to 'take it sitting/standing/lying/screaming and whatever not way'! I hope all that 'taking' wasn't too painful!


----------



## Viper0011.

Perceptron said:


> nor would we be killing other Hindus/Muslims/Christians/Sikhs/Zorastrians/Martians/Klingons for the hate message. The worst would be destruction of public property and legal notices slapped on the instigators of hate.



I actually agree with the legal notice part. That's what needed to happen in this case too. For the rest where you are saying we (the Hindus) won't be killing anyone , etc, etc due to a hate crime....you are already doing it WITHOUT a hate crime. Not sure how bad it'll get if there was one against Hindu-mata. Read below:


India court sentences 31 to life for killing Muslims in Gujarat - Los Angeles Times

India: Gujarat Officials Took Part in Anti-Muslim Violence | Human Rights Watch

Cops rewarded for killing muslims in india - YouTube

What it means o be a Muslim in India - YouTube

Agonies of kashmiri MUSLIMS.. - YouTube


----------



## Mav3rick

funtoosh said:


> the day you guys leave others alone.. for eg, you send terror into india because some hindus and muslims had riot in Guj. you guys bomb my country becuase an old unused mosque like structure built on a temple was demolished. come on you guys have he longest noses



We have never supported terrorism in India. We may have trained/supported Kashmiri freedom fighters but that is not terrorism and neither is Kashmir a part of India.


----------



## Perceptron

Mav3rick said:


> Your attitude would change with continued humiliation, disrespect and savagery. Just as an example, have you forgotten the need for freedom of the IndoPak sub continent? Was it all peaceful, the struggle? Why was there a need to do all that?
> 
> Don't confuse clash of religions with clash of civilization. It is a continued war on Islam.


No one's confusing clash of religions with anything. Indians or the majority community in India are not in clash with anyone except stagnancy, poverty and corruption. There is no blowing up of Hindus amongst themselves, nor are there any sectarian massacres within Hindus.

Secondly, the topic u have brought up on the Subcontinent opens up a Pandora box for u guys. It had minimal contribution from the leaders who carved PureLand. PureLand was obtained through forging a Pistol and the threat of using it simply because Mo followers and Hindus could not live together according to the founder of PureLand.

Coming to your other question, yes the struggle was peaceful, and non-violent for the majority of its time which was the hallmark of the Independence struggle. This is the principal reason why democracy and political stability has existed in India, whereas martial law and coups have existed in PureLand. Colonial oppression and childish mockery of a theocratic figurehead are two different issues altogether.

Finally, criticism makes a person stronger. Analogously, criticism of a religion makes it better. But instead, beheading the messenger and placing fatwas on such "critics" only exposes the weak fabric of the religion and weakens the foundations of the same.


----------



## Mav3rick

JayAtl said:


> There is a fundamental naivete in your thinking. Not surprising. There is no Zionist hold in america- rather it just suits your meme. We don't get dictated by Israel or Zionist - if we did,* US soldiers would have been an ally fighting aside Israel in all their wars ( 6 day war)*- not just be an arms supplier. I would imagine if they had a hold on us - we would have already attacked Iran under Bush. Their PM would not be complaining about Obama.



This is off topic but what makes you think that did not happen?





JayAtl said:


> * ON THE other hand*- if you want to know whom the radicals have a hold on? then look no further- the terrorists have hold on you guys ( govt. too)- as we have seen in Pakistan and other countries - when your and other govt's, capitulating to the mad mullahs and fanatics, and called for a day of protest that only resulted in more Muslim on Muslim crime and millions of dollars of destruction of private and public property.



Destruction of Public Property - Did it not happen when students protested fee hikes in England? Did it not happen in protests throughout France? *It should not happen but do not say it happens only through religious radicals or extremists!*

Protest - Peaceful protest is a sovereign right of every human and the country called for peaceful protest as the west is not facilitating our requests to ban offensive material. When holocaust is 'off limits', why not Islam? Is it just because we cannot humiliate Christianity and Jesus as Jesus (Hazrat Essa A.S.) is a Muslim prophet too?


----------



## Perceptron

orangzaib said:


> I actually agree with the legal notice part. That's what needed to happen in this case too. For the rest where you are saying we (the Hindus) won't be killing anyone , etc, etc due to a hate crime....you are already doing it WITHOUT a hate crime. Not sure how bad it'll get if there was one against Hindu-mata. Read below:
> 
> 
> India court sentences 31 to life for killing Muslims in Gujarat - Los Angeles Times
> 
> India: Gujarat Officials Took Part in Anti-Muslim Violence | Human Rights Watch
> 
> Cops rewarded for killing muslims in india - YouTube
> 
> What it means o be a Muslim in India - YouTube
> 
> Agonies of kashmiri MUSLIMS.. - YouTube


How does it even relate to the topic ? Sam Bacile aka Nakoula Basseley Nakoula simply posted a demeaning video on the life of Mo. Whereas what happened in Gujarat was a violent reaction to the burning of Kar Sevaks in the train in Godhra. Not that i condone their actions. But Godhra and Gujarat as a whole since then has been peaceful enough that even Mo followers felicitate its CM. On the other hand, we see Sectarian massacres, Ethnic cleansing, Daily diwalis and widespread calls of Wajib-ul-Qatls from PureLand and its denizens even though they follow the Religion of Peace.


----------



## Mav3rick

Perceptron said:


> No one's confusing clash of religions with anything. Indians or the majority community in India are not in clash with anyone except stagnancy, poverty and corruption. There is no blowing up of Hindus amongst themselves, nor are there any sectarian massacres within Hindus.
> 
> Secondly, the topic u have brought up on the Subcontinent opens up a Pandora box for u guys. It had minimal contribution from the leaders who carved PureLand. PureLand was obtained through forging a Pistol and the threat of using it simply because Mo followers and Hindus could not live together according to the founder of PureLand.
> 
> Coming to your other question, yes the struggle was peaceful, and non-violent for the majority of its time which was the hallmark of the Independence struggle. This is the principal reason why democracy and political stability has existed in India, whereas martial law and coups have existed in PureLand. Colonial oppression and childish mockery of a theocratic figurehead are two different issues altogether.
> 
> *Finally, criticism makes a person stronger. Analogously, criticism of a religion makes it better. But instead, beheading the messenger and placing fatwas on such "critics" only exposes the weak fabric of the religion and weakens the foundations of the same.*



And thereupon you crapped on your own post. When a person considers religion to be divine, word of God, could there ever be room for improvement?


----------



## Bhairava

Mav3rick said:


> If I post an ad of a Hindu priest wearing that orange dhoti and covered in hindu markings drinking cow piss right from the source and stating "Don't drink piss, drink water.....mineral water", *would that be me being a bigot for purposely instigating Hindus,* even moderate ones, or would the blame be with Hindus for reacting to that ad?
> 
> Try to reason with the thing that is supposedly in your head. If you can use it at all!



You think that would instigate Hindus in the first place ?. Nahh, boy, you got to try harder to get us to react. We dont oblige as easily as Muslims who go apeshit for about literally anything. Our most probable reaction at that ad would be "Oyee bc, these Pakistanis are getting better at Photoshop", a few giggles and we would have moved on.


----------



## Mav3rick

Bhairava said:


> You think that would instigate Hindus in the first place ?. Nahh, boy, you got to try harder to get us to react. We dont oblige as easily as Muslims who go apeshit for about literally anything. Our most probable reaction at that ad would be "Oyee bc, these Pakistanis are getting better at Photoshop", a few giggles and we would have moved on.



Which would make you comparable to a moderate Muslim, like me. However, would all Hindus follow the exact same process? How about, as an example, say some one from Shiv Sena?


----------



## Viper0011.

Bhairava said:


> We dont oblige as easily as Muslims who go apeshit for about literally anything. Our most probable reaction at that ad would be "Oyee bc, these Pakistanis are getting better at Photoshop", a few giggles and we would have moved on.



You forgot the part where you'd burn villages of muslims in such case, kids, mothers and husband sleeping in their homes will be burnt to ashes by the hindu mob, supportive by the Indian state police. AND THEN YOU'LL MOVE ON!!!! It's not in your nature to move on that quickly. You guys shake heads in front of white people to get business. For others, you show your might. The world seen it and its out there


----------



## Bhairava

orangzaib said:


> You forgot the part where you'd burn villages of muslims in such case, kids, mothers and husband sleeping in their homes will be burnt to ashes by the hindu mob, supportive by the Indian state police. AND THEN YOU'LL MOVE ON!!!! It's not in your nature to move on that quickly. You guys shake heads in front of white people to get business. For others, you show your might. The world seen it and its out there



No YT links in this post. ? Oyeeee bc....



Mav3rick said:


> Which would make you comparable to a moderate Muslim, like me. However, would all Hindus follow the exact same process? How about, as an example, say some one from Shiv Sena?



How about some one from Shiv Sena..? what about them ? And if you are what they call a "moderate Muslim", then **** just got real.


----------



## Perceptron

Mav3rick said:


> And thereupon you crapped on your own post. When a person considers religion to be divine, word of God, could there ever be room for improvement?


Yes, to any rational person, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. Creationists and Evolutionists go at it all day long, but u do not hear Creationists burning homes of evolutionists. Nor do u hear Evolutionists beheading Creationists. Let me enhance upon my statement. And you have to be on a different plane than u are now to comprehend this.



> *Faith is a crutch that humans have used for millennia as a way to explain the unexplainable and used, as a way of dealing with the torment, pain and suffering of daily existence as human animals in this world. As you know rather well, a crutch is a temporary aid until one walks on their own. If you stay with a crutch when you do not need it, you can become lame by reason of the crutch itself. The crutch must be abandoned, thrown away and then you can walk freely again, without pain, on a course of healing. Perhaps the crutch is necessary for a time but once you have some confidence, some intuition that you are healing, or perhaps when one tells you "You do not need it anymore" then you can simply toss it aside. It has done its purpose.*
> 
> Faith or any belief system as a whole is the final hurdle to overcome in the human path towards freedom and joy. Let me say it on a very personal level. *Until you, as a human being, are able to completely abandon what you believe, have been told or taught what to believe or believe in, you will never experience this moment of reality as it is. You will never be fully free. You will be conditioned to experience present reality through a veil of the past, because beliefs are traditions from the past.* This is not a joke, not any agnostic or atheistic principle. I am trying to point you to your own total human freedom to be able to live in this world joyfully, in love and compassion until the day you die.
> 
> *That which we have called God, the infinite, the eternal, the essence of all, the permanent, Adonai, the Unknown, the creative energy of the universe, Being itself, existence itself, the Almighty, Allah, love, order, truth, is ness, the Other, and all the rest of the adjectives, nouns, verbs and concepts used in describing this, is simply this moment of reality.* You can not believe or have faith in this moment because again very simply: you are this moment. We have a hard time with this because this moment is sometimes filled with intense physical or emotional pain. The answer is, at times like this, to turn within to the gentle, permanent, ever present reality of the pure silence of who we are that never suffers or feels any pain. And at the moment of death, the ultimate personal painful moment for each of us, there is no difference. Since we are, at the core of our being, pure silence, which is eternal, we can embrace that moment when it comes as well. We do not need to try and evade it or cloak it with a belief system that promises another moment other than this. Remember God is not the future, not heaven, God is "I am", present tense, this moment.



Link :: *Faith : The Final Crutch*

That is something which will be very difficult for u to digest now. But this is what any man of science or rationale will tell you to do what has been summarized above.


----------



## Viper0011.

Perceptron said:


> How does it even relate to the topic ?



How does you calling out Islam, Pakistanis, Muslims and Arabs and demonizing both religion and people was a part of this forum? But you made it. My post was a direct response to that, showing you and giving you proof that before you demonize anyone based on your personal and religious agenda...look inside your own country and religion and what they are doing to Christians and Muslims. Then talk. You are as guilty as the basturd terrorist sitting in the cave in Afghanistan. Both you guys are after killing the innocents.
The topic of this forum was the New York subway's postings. Which is protected under freedom of free speech, given to us by our great constitution and that's a right we cherish and keep close to our hearts. No one can take that away from us and we'll protect it at every cost. However, this doesn't mean that you take that right to free speech and just start demonizing others for no reason. If you want to do so, please also be patience enough to receive a counter argument. You can't be trying free speech and blocking others from it . In this case, you are not liking the response you are getting as it's putting India in the hot seat. So deal with it like an adult and a wise guy. Dialogue is both ways....not your way or my way!!


----------



## Mav3rick

Perceptron said:


> Yes, to any rational person, there is ALWAYS room for improvement. Creationists and Evolutionists go at it all day long, but u do not hear Creationists burning homes of evolutionists. Nor do u hear Evolutionists beheading Creationists. Let me enhance upon my statement. And you have to be on a different plane than u are now to comprehend this.



If there is any room for improvement, then it is not DIVINE, is it? Or perhaps you fail to comprehend the basic idea of divinity according to Islam?

And we are not beheading each other are we? But would I be just as composed if you were to assault me? No, my reaction would be appropriate. So basically what you see around the world today from Muslims is always reaction to inappropriate western actions.


----------



## Perceptron

orangzaib said:


> How does you calling out Islam, Pakistanis, Muslims and Arabs and demonizing both religion and people was a part of this forum? But you made it. My post was a direct response to that, showing you and giving you proof that before you demonize anyone based on your personal and religious agenda...look inside your own country and religion and what they are doing to Christians and Muslims. Then talk. You are as guilty as the basturd terrorist sitting in the cave in Afghanistan. Both you guys are after killing the innocents.
> The topic of this forum was the New York subway's postings. Which is protected under freedom of free speech, given to us by our great constitution and that's a right we cherish and keep close to our hearts. No one can take that away from us and we'll protect it at every cost. However, this doesn't mean that you take that right to free speech and just start demonizing others for no reason. If you want to do so, please also be patience enough to receive a counter argument. You can't be trying free speech and blocking others from it . In this case, you are not liking the response you are getting as it's putting India in the hot seat. So deal with it like an adult and a wise guy. Dialogue is both ways....not your way or my way!!


I am not splitting hairs if u ask me about it. But what happened there in Gujarat over that period happens every other week in Karachi. And Gujarat has been peaceful after that incident, not a peep from anyone after that. Whereas, one sees PureLand burning and killing and looting on a day when it was to declare its Love of Mo.

U see the standards set in Gujarat and the standards seen in Karachi ? Gujarat is shining beacon of India now, whereas Karachi is but a sample representation of the struggle going on inside its country.


----------



## Bhairava

Mav3rick said:


> So basically what you see around the world today from Muslims is always reaction to inappropriate western actions.



No one other than the Muslims themselves are buying it.

One could very well argue it all started with the Arabs attacking the Byzantines.


----------



## Banglar Lathial

Ideally, a collective Muslim response should have been decisive, firm, determined and sustained over a long period of time to permanently eliminate such negative activities from the territories of the enemies.


----------



## Bhairava

Banglar Lathial said:


> Ideally, a collective Muslim response should have been decisive, firm, determined and sustained over a long period of time to permanently eliminate such negative activities from the territories of the enemies.



Its still not late to declare war on the unbelievers.


----------



## Perceptron

Mav3rick said:


> If there is any room for improvement, then it is not DIVINE, is it? Or perhaps you fail to comprehend the basic idea of divinity according to Islam?
> 
> And we are not beheading each other are we? But would I be just as composed if you were to assault me? No, my reaction would be appropriate. So basically what you see around the world today from Muslims is always reaction to inappropriate western actions.


 U mean DIVINITY and PERFECTION substitute for each other ? Perfection is simply a quest to look inwards, believe what we can think logically and be at peace with oneself. An individual who accepts the word of a book as divine has simply stopped to make things better. Which BTW is precisely what's happening in the Muslim world. Acceptance of Divinity has led them to stop their quest in answering the wider questions of nature which is Improvement summed up in so many words.


----------



## jayron

Banglar Lathial said:


> Ideally, a collective Muslim response should have been decisive, firm, determined and sustained over a long period of time to permanently eliminate such negative activities from the territories of the enemies.



They are your enemies. why would or should they have to portray anything positive about you?


----------



## Mav3rick

vsdoc said:


> With 1.6 billion and growing, why is Islam still so evangelical and confrontationalist?
> 
> I mean, everyone realizes that Islam is the newest on the block and the instructions per the Book to spread, but is there more to it?
> 
> Is it the fact that no other faith is as judgmental?
> 
> Or the fact that no other faith looks predominantly without at what the rest of the world is doing or should do, versus within at what is happening with those who already believe - and what they believe in?



Consider Islam to be the new kid on the block, a prime target for local bullies (i.e. defenders of other religions). Sometimes, the bullied do fight back 



funtoosh said:


> are any othe above countries have anything to do with you? NO.



Are 'we' representing all Muslims and Muslim countries?


----------



## Awesome

VCheng said:


> I am sure such an advert can be taken out by anyone who can pay the rates.



Yeah but being anti-Israel and Pro-Jihad in the same line would be seen as support for terrorism and it would be curtailed. I'm sure of it. When it comes to such things all the arguments that are being dissed right now would somehow become viable.



karan.1970 said:


> Thats because some muslims have managed to make Jihad a dirty word, associated with terrorism.. Put up an Ad that says, "Support Islam, defeat Israel", and I am virtually sure there will be no problems..



But its not. Law and justice system should work on facts, not sentiments. Anyone who pics up a dictionary can see what Jihad means. Sentimentally Israel's a dirty word for many Muslims too.


----------



## Mav3rick

OrionHunter said:


> Nostradamus predicted a clash of civilizations, a war between the Christians and Muslims. That it seems is coming to pass.



A Final war b/w Muslims and an army of Jews & Christians, led by the anti-christ (Dajjal), has long been mentioned as one of the signs of Qiyamah (Judgement day). Muslims believe that the Muslim army will be led by Imam Mahdi for most of the war and by Jesus (Hazrat Essa A.S.) for the final battle in which Hazrat Essa (Jesus) will destroy the anti-Christ and defeat the Christian and Jew army.


----------



## Mav3rick

Perceptron said:


> U mean DIVINITY and PERFECTION substitute for each other ? Perfection is simply a quest to look inwards, believe what we can think logically and be at peace with oneself. An individual who accepts the word of a book as divine has simply stopped to make things better. Which BTW is precisely what's happening in the Muslim world. Acceptance of Divinity has led them to stop their quest in answering the wider questions of nature which is Improvement summed up in so many words.



Lol.....kid, Divinity would define 'perfection'! The God cannot be expected to make mistakes, His word is absolute, and beyond challenge. There were races before us that challenged God and their fate against natural disasters is a lesson for those who can actually 'see'.

By the way, Islam is a perfect religion with no room for improvement. Perhaps what you mean is for Muslims to find the perfect interpretation of Islam in to their lives. It's the interpretation that may deviate but the word of God cannot be imperfect.


----------



## JayAtl

orangzaib said:


> Allow me to help you with a few things:
> 1) Anti-Indian agenda: Incorrect. I actually would LIKE to see peace between India and Pakistan. I think it'll save the world and millions of people. Second, I have a ton of friends from India. BUT, they call 'crap...'crap'. You guys here, try to portray India as the ultimate country on the planet and everything else that's not. I can give you a list of bad business practices by Indian businessmen in the US and people who offer open bribes to get business from local American companies. It's sad.
> Similarly, you guys come on different sites and demonize Islam and especially the Pakistanis due to your personal bias and even the Americans at points.....compare to you, I'll speak the truth no matter what. If that makes me 'Anti India' in someone's eyes....that's fine.
> You have a right to have an opinion. I have mine. I call that 'correction' to biased views being presented and I live in the most modern democracy the world's ever known so its my right given to me by my constitution that stands for human freedom. You are entitled to yours so use it as much as you can.
> Btw, IF you read my posts (you said you have but I don't think you have), there are PLENTY of posts that criticize Pakistanis, Muslims on certain issues and actually talk about learning from India's educational experience towards growth. You conveniently forgot about those it seems like. I will ALWAYS give credit to where it deserves. That's just me.
> 
> When I criticize the Pakistanis and other Muslims and there are members here from that background and a ton of them, they don't come back with stupid high school arguments or call me arrogant, etc, etc. They actually click 'Thanks' on the criticism and debate nicely. You guys get SOOO emotional and so many of you come back and answer with utter nonsense at times.
> 
> Last but not least.....you've heard or seen about the 9-11 terror attacks in NYC on the media and in news.....I've seen those barbaric acts IN PERSON. You have NO IDEA how I feel about this terrorism crap. I've lived and seen the pain that I'd rather not talk about. The WORST thing you can EVER see or experience is when people are begging for their lives or jumping from floors down to take that .0001% chance that they know doesn't exist !!!! If I can, I'd wipe out Al-Qaeda like a child erases a name with an eraser on the slate!!! There are VERY few things I hate in the world. These bastard* sitting in the caves in ******* are on top of my hate list. So hopefully, you got my drift.
> 
> Oh, btw, thanks for mentioning Operation Cyclone. You should try to avoid discussing these kind of details on here. You don't know what crosses the line from a 'reference' to 'national security detail'. Just a friendly advice



again whole lot of gibberish to cover your real agenda, like your very mature comment of name calling DRDO in another post. Maturity that is shown in your last paragraph ultimately. You were not only not aware of our involvement in 80's calling it in the 70's, but the sheer silliness of warning me about an operation that took place in 80's and is documented on Google searches all over the net, written in books for decades and even had a movie made about it " Charlie Wilson's war". That would be like someone warning us to not talk about the Vietnam war on the net. Then top that with immaturity of citing bad business practices as emblematic of Indian's in the US is laughable. Enjoy your ride on the school bus this morning.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vsdoc

Mav3rick said:


> Consider Islam to be the new kid on the block, a prime target for local bullies (i.e. defenders of other religions). Sometimes, the bullied do fight back



Bro, no non-muslim looks at Islam or Muslims as easily bulllied.

You love your Prophet. Great. So do others. Please love peacefully.

You believe your Prophet's word is final and that of God, on which Islam has sole dibs. Great. Allow others their own beliefs peacefully.

You believe the way to overtake Christianity is to breed (pardon the crude analogy) like bunnies. Great. Please stop coveting those of other faiths.

You have your views on women and their station in society and your homes and families. Great. Please keep that to your own women and show ours the same respect.

You see other faiths leaving you behind economically, educationally, socially. Suck it up. And please do not expect the world owes you any favors or special allowances.

You want to be respected and accepted as equals in the societies of others. Great. Please show others the same respect and acceptance in your own.

You do not want to be killed and bombed and brutlaized on your own lands. Great. Please keep your dogs of war away from those of others.

You want special rights as minorities as protectorates, yet you think nothing of fingering the majority in their own land. Great. Please do not cry when they hit back.

You strive for the Ummah and eventual world domination by an islamic code and way of life. Great. Please do not grudge the rest of the world getting together to fight you tooth and nail and grind you into the dust before they allow that to happen.

Cheers, Doc

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## karan.1970

Asim Aquil said:


> But its not. Law and justice system should work on facts, not sentiments. Anyone who pics up a dictionary can see what Jihad means. Sentimentally Israel's a dirty word for many Muslims too.



No one is asking Muslims to allow the acceptance of the word Israel anywhere.. Are they?? Similarly, If Jihad has wrong connotations for the non muslim world, so be it.. After all I remember a head of state apologizing for using the word Pa ki when that word has negative sentiments for Pakistanis only in their minds..

btw, I would like to see instances of acceptance of the word *crusade* in muslim world before you criticize reactions of the Christians to the word Jihad


----------



## Kompromat

xdrive said:


> Muslim radicals/extremists are savages, as we have seen time and time again.



All extremists are savages be it Nazis,Christians,Jews,hindus,Muslims or whatever.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## vsdoc

Man Jihad is Holy War.

In today's world who / which country launches war on another in the name of religion?

So if the term Jihad is used, what is the non-muslim population of the world to take it as?

Sometimes you guys are seriously doodh mein dhule hue pakeeze.

P.S. Aeronaut I have waited patiently.

I cannot reach you. You are trying unsuccessfully.

Why did you ban me for coconut girls? 

Do you not like them?


----------



## GoodBoy

Safriz said:


> we dont want them to respect us..
> we want them to leave us alone and mind their own business..and stop disrespecting us.



Then stop going to their countries and manage your *business *in your own land.


----------



## Viper0011.

JayAtl said:


> again whole lot of gibberish to cover your real agenda, like your very mature comment of name calling DRDO in another post. Maturity that is shown in your last paragraph ultimately. You were not only not aware of our involvement in 80's calling it in the 70's, but the sheer silliness of warning me about an operation that took place in 80's and is documented on Google searches all over the net, written in books for decades and even had a movie made about it " Charlie Wilson's war". That would be like someone warning us to not talk about the Vietnam war on the net. Then top that with immaturity of citing bad business practices as emblematic of Indian's in the US is laughable. Enjoy your ride on the school bus this morning.



Right....that's all you have to say? If I have an 'agenda' what's yours and your countrymen? You kill minorities in your countries and here you are bashing muslims like you are the most peaceful people on the planet (that's only to the white guy who's you boss btw). You guys lie, bribe western countries to get business, my countrymen and soldiers who served are without jobs because of you guys illegal business practices. You guys kiss white guys a** but then get aggressive to others? Paid for by the American tax payer and American jobs to be assertive and arrogant? 

Show me ONE or TWO of the posts by Indian members that aren't bashing Muslims here without any reason. The topic is NY's subway....not Indian subway or how India thinks of Pakistan ( we all know how biased that is). So leave your agenda, stick to the topic and I won't show the horrible face of India that never shows up on tv because your lobby pays the western media and others!!! Hope this helps. Otherwise, you can keep saying I have an agenda and yes, that is to answer your biased posts towards Pakistan and Islam. Looking at the human right's situation in your country, you shouldn't be aggressively demonizing Islam or Muslims when your own child is ugly as shyt!


----------



## Viper0011.

GoodBoy said:


> Then stop going to their countries and manage your *business *in your own land.




Why are you NOT doing the same? Quit using your illegal means to achieve your national objectives in the US (pushing the American illegally out of work to give work to Indians both here and in India?, ask me, I'd love to give you names and companies who should be in JAIL right now), Sri Lanka, Tibbet, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Baluchistan, Karachi, ....internal killings of other religions like Christianity and Muslims??


----------



## Viper0011.

JayAtl said:


> You were not only not aware of our involvement in 80's calling it in the 70's, but the sheer silliness of warning me about an operation that took place in 80's and is documented on Google searches all over the net, written in books for decades and even had a movie made about it " Charlie Wilson's war"



Allow me to correct you again and let you know that 'you have NO idea what you are talking about'. Here, now you are covering you a** and talking from both sides of your mouth.
What you know from Charlie Wilson's war (a movie) and some 'Google' declassified documents tells me your level of knowledge. There is MUCH more to it than you or anyone else can EVER know or see in a movie. I'll leave the discussion at that. But, the planning on the whole thing had started in 1977....completed and the process initiated in 1979. Again, you don't know what you are talking about and I'd just stay quiet here as this is not a place to discuss operations related to national security irrespective of how little was 'publicly published'. Hope you understand.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## JayAtl

orangzaib said:


> Allow me to correct you again and let you know that 'you have NO idea what you are talking about'. Here, now you are covering you a** and talking from both sides of your mouth.
> What you know from Charlie Wilson's war (a movie) and some 'Google' declassified documents tells me your level of knowledge. There is MUCH more to it than you or anyone else can EVER know or see in a movie. I'll leave the discussion at that. But, the planning on the whole thing had started in 1977....completed and the process initiated in 1979. Again, you don't know what you are talking about and I'd just stay quiet here as this is not a place to discuss operations related to national security irrespective of how little was 'publicly published'. Hope you understand.



The very fact that you call a 40 year old war plannings a national security hush hush tells me you are a novice who has no clue about declassified documents put in the national archives. My wife being one of those who had top secret clearance during the cold war and her work as a special intelligence attache to embassies during the cold war. DR Brzezinski under carter talked about some support but it was always held back by Carter because he wanted diplomatic approach to be the first go at it. The process that you spoke about was funding of mujaheddin by the govt specially for " real" arms being supplied- NO such thing happened till the 80's. The first real funding began for the Operation I cited. 

Quote National archives " On January 15th, 1980, Sir Robert Armstrong, the Cabinet Secretary, met Zbigniew Brzezinski, the US National Security Advisor, along with government representatives from France and West Germany at the Palais Marigny in Paris. A note sent to London afterwards stated: &#8220;There was some discussion of support for Afghan resistance to the invading Soviet troops.&#8221;

Enjoy your bus ride back from school...stick to Hindu mass murders and jihad is only decades old concept. your concern trolling is exposed.


----------



## Viper0011.

JayAtl said:


> Quote National archives " On January 15th, 1980, Sir Robert Armstrong, the Cabinet Secretary, met Zbigniew Brzezinski, the US National Security Advisor, along with government representatives from France and West Germany at the Palais Marigny in Paris. A note sent to London afterwards stated: There was some discussion of support for Afghan resistance to the invading Soviet troops.



Right, you came from India and you know the whole intelligence apparatus and how those operations worked dude? Anyway, keep reading on google / wiki. Good reading. Your posts have become high school b.s. that's available on this forum exclusively by people from your country. THAT's my issue. You guys don't debate, you just can't take anything said about India even though the world knows its right. Anyway. enjoy your stay here, we'll debate when you turn adult. Oh on a serious note, don't ever think reading up on wiki or google tells you how an intelligence operation was conducted!!

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JayAtl

orangzaib said:


> Right, you came from India and you know the whole intelligence apparatus and how those operations worked dude? Anyway, keep reading on google / wiki. Good reading. Your posts have become high school b.s. that's available on this forum exclusively by people from your country. THAT's my issue. You guys don't debate, you just can't take anything said about India even though the world knows its right. Anyway. enjoy your stay here, we'll debate when you turn adult. Oh on a serious note, don't ever think reading up on wiki or google tells you how an intelligence operation was conducted!!



You forgot to use a noun verb and 911 on this post


----------



## Viper0011.

JayAtl said:


> You forgot to use a noun verb and 911 on this post



That's cuz I didn't go to an Anglo-British high school and take brakes when I talk. We taulk fast niga* and we ain't take no brakes or jump up and down when we taulk.


----------



## Zabaniyah

vsdoc said:


> Man Jihad is Holy War.



Nope. Just partly 



vsdoc said:


> In today's world who / which country launches war on another in the name of religion?



Name one that did? 



vsdoc said:


> So if the term Jihad is used, what is the non-muslim population of the world to take it as?



Do you know what Jihad is?  



vsdoc said:


> Sometimes you guys are seriously _doodh mein dhule hue pakeeze._



English please.


----------



## vsdoc

Zabaniya said:


> Nope. Just partly
> 
> Name one that did?
> 
> Do you know what Jihad is?
> 
> English please.



How can I discuss war with a girl?

(I'll come back EOD to read the MCP brickbats! )


----------



## karan.1970

Inflammatory jihad ad debuts in New York City subway | NDTV.com








New York: An inflammatory ad equating Islamic jihad with savagery was posted on Monday in 10 New York City subway stations, even as much of the Muslim world was still seething over a California-made movie ridiculing the Prophet Mohammad.

The ad, sponsored by the pro-Israel American Freedom Defense Initiative, appeared after the Metropolitan Transit Authority lost a bid to refuse to post it on the grounds that it violated the agency's policy against demeaning language. In July, a federal judge ruled it was protected speech and ordered the MTA to place the posters.

The ad, featuring mostly black-and-white lettering on 46-by-30-inch (117-by-72-cm) cardboard posters, will remain posted for a month, MTA spokeswoman Marjorie Anders said.

"In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man," the ad reads. "Support Israel/Defeat Jihad."

Pamela Geller, executive director for the ad's sponsor group, rejected the MTA's assertion the posters were demeaning.

"There's nothing either hateful or false about my ad," Geller said in an email.

Despite the controversy, most subway riders who passed the ad in a tunnel at the Times Square station Monday failed to notice it. Those who did were generally critical.

*"Where is the protection of religion in America?" wondered Javerea Khan, 22, a Pakistani-born Muslim from the Bronx. "The word 'savage' really bothers the Muslim community*. But it's hard for me to look at this poster and take it seriously."

Mel Moore, 29, a sports agent, said: "*It's not right, but it's freedom of speech. To put it on a poster is just not right. But it caught my attention and I support freedom of speech, so you got to live with it*."

Australian tourist Peter Johnson, 50, who had just visited the memorial to the September 11 hijack plane attacks, said he felt it was "*a bit harsh to call someone a savage, but I do think that extremist Muslims seem happy to kill anyone regardless of their race or religion*.

"*I would have used the word 'barbaric*.'"

Anders, the MTA spokeswoman, said the agency had not received any reports of vandalism against the posters.

The American Freedom Defense Initiative gained notoriety when it opposed creation of a Muslim community center near the site of the Twin Towers, which were destroyed in the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center.


----------



## Bhairava

Aeronaut said:


> All extremists are savages be it Nazis,Christians,Jews,hindus,Muslims or whatever.



But Muslim extremists make everyone else look like amul babies in that competition..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Awesome

Most US Muslims have "pfft" over the ads.


----------



## Bhairava

Asim Aquil said:


> Most US Muslims have "pfft" over the ads.



That is a good start. The ads, cartoons, videos should only deserve that much reaction.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Sashan

Asim Aquil said:


> Most US Muslims have "pfft" over the ads.




Most US muslims have ignored the movie or the ads and they have gone about business as usual. And many Americans have either sympathy or indifference on the happenings and it is business as usual for them. The problem is when people outside of US taking offense and making it their business.


----------



## sanddy

Anti-jihad ads make their way to D.C. subways 






An anti-jihad ad that has caused a stir in
other cities now has another destination for
its message: the subways of Washington.

The ad by the American Freedom Defense
Initiative states, In any war between the
civilized man and the savage, support the
civilized man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad.

Jihad  Arabic for struggle  is considered
a religious duty for Muslims, although there
are both benign and militant interpretations
of what it means.


----------



## mfreak

This is that Pamela Gellar's BS organization I guess. Calling ALL muslims savages. Its racism.


----------



## Zabaniyah

vsdoc said:


> How can I discuss war with a girl?
> 
> (I'll come back EOD to read the MCP brickbats! )



Jihad doesn't strictly imply war or violence. 

And by the way, I'm not some "girl". 
IslamiCity.com - Food

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## ARSENAL6

Jihad means to strive . Like using Jihad for exam or something.
Jihad is not the same as Crusade, where it was used to massacre Muslims in violent way through hatred.

You may hear Muslim to use Jihad , to strive in a exam but you will never hear a Christian crusade in their exam or *hell has no fury with blood and violence* in the class room. That's the difference.

The posters reminds me back in the days of Nazism where Jews were prosecuted in that manner.
However the posters does back fire on American beliefs of being a stable society. Many Americans are trying to promote their country as tolerant state but this latest racist attempts does not help at all. Either People who did this poster are such a moron that hate has gone over their IQ or they hate America so much that they wanted ruin its image. 
This Is not going to aggravate Muslims Americans on the scale you saw in the Middle east with video but it will high light the kind of racism that once existed in Nazi Germany against the Jews. 

Many Muslim Americans have payed taxes served in Armed forces and been part of community. Some are converts so I simply don't understand when people say they should leave the US.
ALl have their opinion to voice and if something is wrong they have every right to do so .

Everyone has a red tape its about time everyone including the Islamaphobes to pay respect to.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Zabaniyah

Hell, I commit myself to Jihad everyday. 

Business as usual

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## seethru

apo_Asura said:


> Exactly! Reform from within, purge the hindutva elements from your society. Respect from both Indian and non-Indian Muslims will follow.


----------



## fallstuff

Zabaniya said:


> Jihad doesn't strictly imply war or violence.
> 
> And by the way,* I'm not some "girl". *
> IslamiCity.com - Food



Zabaniya: () "Violent thrusters", the angels who thrust people into hellfire, who are nineteen in number.(Source:Taha Publication)

So you are saying you are not just another girl. You are a violent thruster. You gotta be with the *Hell's Angels.*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zabaniyah

fallstuff said:


> So you are saying you are not just another girl. You are a violent thruster. You gotta be with the *Hell's Angels.*



"-_-

How many Bengali girls do you think see themselves as hellish angels?


----------



## fallstuff

Zabaniya said:


> "-_-
> 
> How many Bengali girls do you think see themselves as hellish angels?



I know of at least two.


----------



## Viper0011.

Bhairava said:


> But Muslim extremists make everyone else look like amul babies in that competition..



Including the people from BJP, Siv-Sena and the soldiers raping and killing Kashmiri women and children for the past 3 decades??


----------



## kaykay

orangzaib said:


> Including the people from BJP, Siv-Sena and the soldiers raping and killing Kashmiri women and children for the past 3 decades??



or you can say something like you did with bangalis and still doing with baluchis......how about that??


----------



## KingMamba

JayAtl said:


> Let's be candid and honest- when was the last time you ever had any OIC member ever dared to declare war on the US. They only want *us *to fight their battles. Look at Syria- thousands of Muslims killed and they are once again begging christian Judea US to come stop them from being slaughtered. or when one of them attacks another like the Gulf war, the great OIC members want the US to bail them out. Hey~ But they do have cool OIC meeting rooms though.
> 
> Let's face it every member of the OIC is woefully week militarily



Christian Judea US?!? What are you a Republican?  Also what do you mean by us, your flag and your attitude clearly show you are an Indian. Oh yeah and why don't you get your facts straight the US volunteered to help Kuwait in exchange for base privilege in Arabia, it was a business transaction. Oh yeah every OIC member is woefully weak but your country INDIA still cries itself to sleep whenever Pakistan is even mentioned in a whisper. You Bhartis are so insecure take a hike.

Cannot believe Juice thanked your post he is usually more open minded, he must have been trolled real bad by some other posters on this thread.

PS- Despite what your insecure mind would like you to believe every military engagement the US has been involved in has served a purpose for national interests. There was no US support in Rwanda for a reason you know.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mav3rick

vsdoc said:


> Bro, no non-muslim looks at Islam or Muslims as easily bulllied.
> 
> You love your Prophet. Great. So do others. Please love peacefully.
> 
> You believe your Prophet's word is final and that of God, on which Islam has sole dibs. Great. Allow others their own beliefs peacefully.



We respect belief of others and we respect freedom of religion.





vsdoc said:


> You believe the way to overtake Christianity is to breed (pardon the crude analogy) like bunnies. Great. Please stop coveting those of other faiths.



That is a misconception and a common one. Muslims consider children to be blessings of God (Allah) so we have bigger families, usually as big as one can afford to impart a decent future to. But our duty is to ensure that everyone is presented with the word of Allah so that on the day of judgement they are held accountable for their decisions therein. However, no Muslim is allowed to force anyone into Islam.





vsdoc said:


> You have your views on women and their station in society and your homes and families. Great. Please keep that to your own women and show ours the same respect.



All women demand respect but will only be respected as long as they practice respectful living. Any indecency or immoral activities will write off any right on respect in any society. The only difference is the scale of measurement of these immoral and indecent activities. Yours may be different to ours.





vsdoc said:


> You see other faiths leaving you behind economically, educationally, socially. Suck it up. And please do not expect the world owes you any favors or special allowances.



There was a time when we led all other faiths economically, educationally, socially and militarily. We had it all before we messed up and lost it all. There are ups and down in every society/religion. The shift will happen, naturally, in x years/decades. And ofcourse, we have to do it ourselves, nobody owes us anything.





vsdoc said:


> You want to be respected and accepted as equals in the societies of others. Great. Please show others the same respect and acceptance in your own.



We do show everyone the same respect, until they trample on our rights and our self respect.





vsdoc said:


> You do not want to be killed and bombed and brutlaized on your own lands. Great. Please keep your dogs of war away from those of others.



You mean we should not defend out countries from terrorism? from well thought out and planned step by step invasion policies? Don't we have a right to life?





vsdoc said:


> You want special rights as minorities as protectorates, yet you think nothing of fingering the majority in their own land. Great. Please do not cry when they hit back.
> 
> You strive for the Ummah and eventual world domination by an islamic code and way of life. Great. Please do not grudge the rest of the world getting together to fight you tooth and nail and grind you into the dust before they allow that to happen.
> 
> Cheers, Doc



Well, it has been predicted a long long time ago........Muslims V/S the rest of the world, combined! It is imminent, only a matter of time.


----------



## Zabaniyah

fallstuff said:


> I know of at least two.



Well....that's a first one 



KingMamba93 said:


> Christian Judea US?!? What are you a Republican?  Also what do you mean by us, your flag and your attitude clearly show you are an Indian. Oh yeah and why don't you get your facts straight the US volunteered to help Kuwait in exchange for base privilege in Arabia, it was a business transaction. Oh yeah every OIC member is woefully weak but your country INDIA still cries itself to sleep whenever Pakistan is even mentioned in a whisper. You Bhartis are so insecure take a hike.
> 
> Cannot believe Juice thanked your post he is usually more open minded, he must have been trolled real bad by some other posters on this thread.
> 
> PS- Despite what your insecure mind would like you to believe every military engagement the US has been involved in has served a purpose for national interests. There was no US support in Rwanda for a reason you know.



Dude, why bother replying to that troll?


----------



## KingMamba

Zabaniya said:


> Well....that's a first one
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, why bother replying to that troll?



He was trying to score some brownie points by acting like a dick, it is an open secret on this forum that Indians are narrow minded inferiority complex stricken little men. They like to chastise the Pakistanis posters on this forum for being emotional yet they are the first to overreact whenever news comes out concerning Pakistan, this thread didn't even have anything to do with the OIC yet he comes and declares all of them woefully weak when his country shits bricks to just one member.


----------



## Arav_Rana

Good line "In any war between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man "
Not in favor to support Israel for everything but yeah Israel people have right to survive.
and Jihad should be defeated.


----------



## PlanetWarrior

KingMamba93 said:


> He was trying to score some brownie points by acting like a dick, it is an open secret on this forum that Indians are narrow minded inferiority complex stricken little men. They like to chastise the Pakistanis posters on this forum for being emotional yet they are the first to overreact whenever news comes out concerning Pakistan, this thread didn't even have anything to do with the OIC yet he comes and declares all of them woefully weak when his country shits bricks to just one member.



Jeez man , what's with the personal insults against an entire nation just because one of its citizens ticked you off ? C'mon dude , you are now living in the USA it seems. Wake up to reality and embrace open mindedness


----------



## Joe Shearer

KingMamba93 said:


> He was trying to score some brownie points by acting like a dick, it is an open secret on this forum that *Indians are narrow minded inferiority complex stricken little men. *They like to chastise the Pakistanis posters on this forum for being emotional yet they are the first to overreact whenever news comes out concerning Pakistan, this thread didn't even have anything to do with the OIC yet he comes and declares all of them woefully weak when his country shits bricks to just one member.






Which member is it that his country shits bricks to, btw?


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

KingMamba93 said:


> He was trying to score some brownie points by acting like a dick,* it is an open secret on this forum that Indians are narrow minded inferiority complex stricken little men*. They like to chastise the Pakistanis posters on this forum for being emotional yet they are the first to overreact whenever news comes out concerning Pakistan, this thread didn't even have anything to do with the OIC yet he comes and declares all of them woefully weak when his country shits bricks to just one member.



This forum is also an open proof of the fact that all Pakistanis are coward , closet Jihadis . See that is how stupid you sound


----------



## Zabaniyah

Joe Shearer said:


> Which member is it that his country shits bricks to, btw?



Bangladesh of-course


----------

