# Possible new terror attack in London unfolding.



## waz

I've just heard new from friends who work in the met. Something has happened at London Bridge.


----------



## waz

News is stil coming in. It's not on the major networks yet.

A white van has run down pedestrians at London Bridge.

There are now three incidents one at the Shard and at Borough market. Oh my God....


----------



## The Sandman

waz said:


> I've just heard new from friends who work in the met. Something has happened at London Bridge.


You're right

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871117346169073664


----------



## Dil Pakistan

A van has the pedestrians on London Bridge.


----------



## waz

There are now three incidents one at the Shard and at Borough market. Oh my God....

The face of the UK will change forever now.


----------



## SMS Derfflinger

WtF...I`m sorry to hear this, waz...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

I hope it's nothing serious. Fingers crossed.


----------



## Shotgunner51

Sad to hear about this, wish people safe!

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## KAL-EL

Currently watching news coverage on American TV.

Witness on the bridge currently talking to CNN says it was a van swerving on and off the payment knocking people over.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

SMS Derfflinger said:


> WtF...I`m sorry to hear this, waz...



Thanks mate. God this is depressing.



Path-Finder said:


> I hope it's nothing serious. Fingers crossed.



I'm afraid it is very, very serious. There are going to be numerous deaths.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pak-marine

*Van hits pedestrians on London bridge *

Police are responding to reports that a van has hit a number of pedestrians on London Bridge in central London.
Witnesses have said that armed officers are understood to be at the scene after a white transit van mounted the pavement before driving into people.
The Met Police say they are dealing with an incident on the bridge and "multiple resources" are in attendance. 
Transport for London said the bridge has been closed in both directions due to a "major police incident". 
■ Latest updates on London Bridge incident
Bus routes were being diverted and Southwark Bridge has also been shut, it added.
BBC reporter Holly Jones, who was on the bridge at the time of the incident, said the van was driven by a man and was "probably travelling at about 50 miles an hour".
About five people were being treated for injuries after the vehicle mounted the pavement and hit them, she said.
She said the van, which was travelling from the direction of central London, headed towards the south side of the river.
Ms Jones later reported seeing a man being arrested by police. She said he was handcuffed and had his shirt off. 
London Ambulance Service tweeted: "Multiple resources attending an incident at #LondonBridge, please avoid the area". 

Source : BBC

*London police report 'incident' on London Bridge*
By Steve Almasy and Natalie Gallon, CNN



Updated 2204 GMT (0604 HKT) June 3, 2017 


















Report: Incident at London Bridge 00:54
(CNN)There has been an incident on London Bridge, London's Metropolitan Police said Saturday night. 

"We are dealing with an incident on #LondonBridge, when we have more information we will update this twitter feed."
A witness, Mark Roberts, told CNN that he was on the bridge when a van came swerving down the roadway at a high rate of speed.
The van hit several people, knocking one person about 20 feet into the air, he said. It swerved into oncoming lanes before hitting a bus stop and coming to a stop, Roberts said.
"Within my line of sight, there were five or six people on the ground that were not moving," he said. "It looked to me that the van was aiming at the people."
Roberts said he heard what sounded like gunshots a brief time later. He estimated 100 people were on the bridge at the time.
ADVERTISING

inRead invented by Teads
Both lanes of the bridge were blocked, police said.
Authorities have not said what caused the incident.
The US embassy in London tweeted: "Please avoid the area and monitor local news/@metpoliceuk for updates."
England has been on edge since May 22, when a suicide bomber killed 22 people at an Ariana Grande concert at the Manchester Arena.
The bridge incident also comes more than two months after a man drove an SUV into a crowd on the sidewalk along Westminster Bridge in London, killing at least four people.
After ramming the car into a barrier outside the Houses of Parliament, the driver got out and stabbed a police officer to death. The attacker was gunned down by a police officer.
The assailant, Khalid Masood, 52, of West Midlands, reportedly had a criminal record and may have had connections to violent extremism, British Prime Minister Theresa May said.
Developing story - more to come


----------



## Vergennes

God,I just heard what happened. Very sorry for our British friends and hope speed recovery if there are wounded people. @waz Hope you are safe.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## pak-marine

*Unfortunately seems like a Possible isis terror attack *


----------



## Irfan Baloch

waz said:


> I've just heard new from friends who work in the met. Something has happened at London Bridge.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40146916

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## YeBeWarned

Cnn says 15-20 injured .. Lets pray no fatalities


----------



## Path-Finder

Ah man. That is incredibly sad. I just hope there is no serious fatalities.


----------



## F-22Raptor

Very sorry to hear this. The fact there are people that spend their time conjuring up ways to murder innocent people is depressing as hell.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## KAL-EL

News coverage here in the states is all about this current event at the moment.

Obviously don't know all the details, but very saddened to hear of this.

my heartfelt sympathies go out to all UK'ers @waz

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Penguin

Daily Mail says 20 people hit, BBC says 5 (as per eyewitness account). That's a big discrepancy


----------



## NoOne'sBoy

Penguin said:


> Daily Mail says 20 people hit, BBC says 5 (as per eyewitness account). That's a big discrepancy


There are also stabbings reported too. Wasn't there supposed to be military?


----------



## Penguin

NoOne'sBoy said:


> There are also stabbings reported too. Wasn't there supposed to be military?


Nothing about that (yet) in the news here (outside UK)



F-22Raptor said:


> Very sorry to hear this. The fact there are people that spend their time conjuring up ways to murder innocent people is depressing as hell.


Just means they have no life, really sad people, (almost) to take pity on.


----------



## salarsikander

Deeply saddened by this tragic news. The losers cannot harm the men in uniform so they attack innocent civilians


----------



## pakdefender

Globalisation is failing and this will just give another blow to that , it will be bad for community relations


----------



## salarsikander

Stay safe @waz

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## American Pakistani

Very sad news. I pray for no fatalities. British authorities need to tighten security.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## NoOne'sBoy

pakdefender said:


> Globalisation is failing and this will just give another blow to that , it will be bad for community relations


Are you sure though? Last time I checked, many other communities co-exist just fine.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## waz

I'm afraid dear posters that what I reported before the incident had broke on the news is now being reported. The second incident in Borough market has indeed happened.



salarsikander said:


> Stay safe @waz



Thanks bro.



KAL-EL said:


> News coverage here in the states is all about this current event at the moment.
> 
> Obviously don't know all the details, but very saddened to hear of this.
> 
> my heartfelt sympathies go out to all UK'ers @waz



Thanks bro, and to the larger American folk who are with us.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## KAL-EL

waz said:


> *Thanks bro, and to the larger American folk who are with us*.



We are completely with you brother

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Vergennes said:


> God,I just heard what happened. Very sorry for our British friends and hope speed recovery if there are wounded people. @waz Hope you are safe.



Oh I'm safe brother, however our country is not. I don't know what to say. 3,000 terrorist suspects being "monitored". These pieces of sh*t need to be rounded up in camps and have guns put to their heads. Mark my words today, the UK will change.

People can say what they want about Trump, but he's the only one being deadly serious about this. God help us.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Zibago

Now this type of car ramming terror is really REALLY hard to predict and prevent i hope no serious injuries occurred in this incident


----------



## waz

More news coming in. There were/are three attackers. This is not on the news yet.


----------



## SorryNotSorry

Very sad news indeed. Hope there are no deaths.


----------



## waz

Live images coming in now police have taken a man down. He is young and seems to be of Semitic appearance.


----------



## hydrabadi_arab

I bet terrorist will turn out another one of those "suspects" but not enough evidence to persecute.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TSA321

More than one dead at London Bridge say the police


----------



## Glass

sad rip

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

waz said:


> People can say what they want about Trump, but he's the only one being deadly serious about this. God help us.


A lot of people are deadly serious about this. Just that they are not always (or even ever) in the spotlight.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Penguin said:


> A lot of people are deadly serious about this. Just that they are not always (or even ever) in the spotlight.



True, the spotlight effect does come into this.


----------



## Penguin

Standard issue from now on?


----------



## Vergennes

@waz Bro,make sure to carefully watch this thread,you are soon going to have the terrorists apologists and the bogus supa dupa experts.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## waz

Vergennes said:


> @waz Bro,make sure to carefully watch this thread,you are soon going to have the terrorists apologists and the bogus supa dupa experts wannabes.



I'm on it bro. Just pray for us. Sadly we have 2 confirmed deaths on London Bridge.



Penguin said:


> Standard issue from now on?



I honestly won't rule anything out. There will be major changes now.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Vergennes

waz said:


> I'm on it bro. Just pray for us. Sadly we have 2 confirmed deaths on London Bridge.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly won't rule anything out. There will be major changes now.



May they Rest In Peace. Hope you'll get them.
France is here to help the UK whenever it would need it and to amplify the anti terror struggle. We can only sympathize with the UK and its people on this difficult moment,especially after the atrocities we also faced.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## waz

Vergennes said:


> May they Rest In Peace. Hope you'll get them.
> France is here to help the UK whenever it would need it and to amplify the anti terror struggle. We can only sympathize with the UK on this difficult moment,especially after the atrocities we also faced.



We need a deep cleansing, which should be carried out by both our forces and services. All these savages are linked somehow. The gloves really need to come off now.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

waz said:


> More news coming in. There were/are three attackers. This is not on the news yet.


Ok, we now have on our news:

at least 1 dead, multiple wounded at London Bridge

Action at the Borough Market, near the Bridge, where there was a report of a stabbing in a restaurant (Brindisa rest. at the Borough Hill street, corner Southwark street. Armed police present, (rifle) shots fired, target unknown. Possibly several people stabbed

Another incident in the Vauxhall quarter. Armed police on site.

metrostations Bank en Vauxhall reopened

Police looking for 3 suspects, including 1 woman
4 people stabbed






Police twitter:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gslv

Nothing big will happen, ppl will say I stand with London for 2 days in Facebook and insta and after that everyone will forget. The same thing will be repeated after few weeks. 
Nations can stop a person, not an idea. As long as there are people who believe in the idea of ISIS, I don't think that these attacks can be stopped.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kharral

What on Earth is going on. Hope the only casualties are the perpetrators themselves & not some innocent soul.


----------



## TMA

waz said:


> Oh I'm safe brother, however our country is not. I don't know what to say. 3,000 terrorist suspects being "monitored". These pieces of sh*t need to be rounded up in camps and have guns put to their heads. Mark my words today, the UK will change.
> 
> People can say what they want about Trump, but he's the only one being deadly serious about this. God help us.


Don't forget Putin, he is also acting serious.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Penguin said:


> Ok, we now have on our news:
> 
> 1 dead, multiple wounded at London Bridge
> 
> Action at the Borough Market, near the Bridge, where there was a report of a stabbing in a restaurant. Armed police present, shots fired, target unknown. Possibly several people stabbed
> 
> Another incident in the Vauxhall quarter. Armed police on site.
> 
> Police looking for 3 suspects.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police twitter:



Yes that's accurate.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## kasper95

RIP to the dead .is it a terrorist attack


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

kasper95 said:


> RIP to the dead .is it a terrorist attack



The UK Prime Minister said it's being treated as a possible terrorist attack.

It's highly likely this is the case, due to the coordinated nature of the attack, and the large number of attackers in multiple locations.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mike2000 is back

gslv said:


> Nothing big will happen, ppl will say I stand with London for 2 days in Facebook and insta and after that everyone will forget. The same thing will be repeated after few weeks.
> Nations can stop a person, not an idea. As long as there are people who believe in the idea of ISIS, I don't think that these attacks can be stopped.


Unfortunately, I agree.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> The UK Prime Minister said it's being treated as a possible terrorist attack.
> 
> It's highly likely this is the case, due to the coordinated nature of the attack, and the large number of attackers in multiple locations.


Yes, we will have to wait to confirm it though, since we are not yet sure it was a terror attack though. However if it's indeed a terrorist attack(which will be a coordinated one at that), then it will be a failure by our intelligence services to thwart this coordinated attack. 
To think I almost went out today with some friends in central London for a drink.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## pakdefender

It's near impossible for intelegence agencies to predict when a motorist might go off the track to hit pedestrians

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Arabi

The good news is that TERRORISTS can't conduct any bombing attack on the UK anymore, but now these cowards are only able to run over some pedestrians by TRUCKS or stabbing them. That means the UK internal security is better than many others in Europe including France's. Hopefully, they capture the 3 suspects alive to expose the rest of their partners/leaders in the crime.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Penguin

gslv said:


> I don't think that these attacks can be stopped.


I don't think so either, at least not all of them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pakdefender

gslv said:


> Nothing big will happen, ppl will say I stand with London for 2 days in Facebook and insta and after that everyone will forget. The same thing will be repeated after few weeks.
> Nations can stop a person, not an idea. As long as there are people who believe in the idea of ISIS, I don't think that these attacks can be stopped.



All the big things have already happened I don't know what do you mean by "nothing big will happen" , could you elaborate ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## terry5

These mother phuckers who are they ,what are they ,killing anyone weak innocent .
How the heck is this shit going on 

sons of bitches rot in hell all you low life geek bastard nerds.

R.I.P

So these bastards are still at large ?

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Path-Finder

London Bridge and Borough Market attack have been declared terrorist attacks. Met Police. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871137723574173697


----------



## Penguin

The incident at #*Vauxhall* is a stabbing and is not connect to the incidents at #*LondonBridge* & #*BoroughMarket*



> *Donald J. Trump*‏Geverifieerd account @*realDonaldTrump*
> 
> We need to be smart, vigilant and tough. We need the courts to give us back our rights. *We need the Travel Ban* as an extra level of safety!


... we don't even know yet if the perps are imports or locals!


----------



## SQ8

This isnt half over, these animals throng east London, and a dozen other cities. These are the offspring of the same seed that has child molestation gangs , it is the same seed that makes issues with whether you wear a cap or not or the length of your leg garments.

Ataturk was right to wipe them out, but like a virus they lived. And now my favorite city has to bear its openness and tolerance for such scum

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Hulk

waz said:


> There are now three incidents one at the Shard and at Borough market. Oh my God....
> 
> The face of the UK will change forever now.


Unfortunately this will lead to strict checks and possible deportation of some who might have no bad intention at all. World works on some level of basic trust. If people break and not follow then this world will become a mess. People should understand the war also needs to follow rules, else we are going back to medival ages.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## bhimram

Hulk said:


> Unfortunately this will lead to strict checks and possible deportation of some who might have no bad intention at all. World works on some level of basic trust. If people break and not follow then this world will become a mess. People should understand the war also needs to follow rules, else we are going back to medival ages.



Nothing will happen.
Everyone will pretend the attacks are ghastly, give some politically correct speeches and go to sleep until the next attack. Rinse & repeat.

This is not the first and won't be the last.


----------



## Hulk

bhimram said:


> Nothing will happen.
> Everyone will pretend the attacks are ghastly, give some politically correct speeches and go to sleep until the next attack. Rinse & repeat.
> 
> This is not the first and won't be the last.


I disagree. I am highly active on twitter and I have seen sea change in how people use to express. It's building up and someday will come out. Some of this will play into how police behaves and you will not realize it today.


----------



## terranMarine

mike2000 is back said:


> To think I almost went out today with some friends in central London for a drink.


So why was it canceled?


----------



## bhimram

Hulk said:


> I disagree. I am highly active on twitter and I have seen sea change in how people use to express. It's building up and someday will come out. Some of this will play into how police behaves and you will not realize it today.



People?
People have no say in policies. Imagine a JK Rowling, sitting pretty & safe behind the sturdy walls of her palace preaching about how we should welcome everyone, all the while not letting even one homeless person into her palace? Worse thing is more people follow her than the people you follow.

This is not being done in isolation. The narrative is already decided and "people" will be deceived into buying it.

Nothing will happen buddy. We will cry, pretend outrage and will still twiddle thumbs at taking action against known terrorists in order not offend certain sections. Let's not pretend otherwise.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Reports coming in that two of the attackers were shot dead by police. These are unconfirmed though.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gslv

pakdefender said:


> All the big things have already happened I don't know what do you mean by "nothing big will happen" , could you elaborate ?


I meant nothing big in stopping these attacks will happen. This same shite will be repeated in some other European cities after few days. These things are a part and parcel of Europe now.


----------



## ashok321

London Mayor Sadiq Khan labels attacks as 'deliberate and cowardly


----------



## jhungary

Shit man, woke up to another terrorist attack just 2 week after Manchester bombing

RIP to the dead, glad that you are save @waz

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## The SC

waz said:


> Yes that's accurate.


A woman witness said she saw at least 3 people with their necks cut near the bridge!
Really sad happening, and above all in England..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

waz said:


> I've just heard new from friends who work in the met. Something has happened at London Bridge.


Wow Horrible.

I heard about it too from the BBC.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Awan68

Oscar said:


> This isnt half over, these animals throng east London, and a dozen other cities. These are the offspring of the same seed that has child molestation gangs , it is the same seed that makes issues with whether you wear a cap or not or the length of your leg garments.
> 
> Ataturk was right to wipe them out, but like a virus they lived. And now my favorite city has to bear its openness and tolerance for such scum


I didnt knew attaturk wiped out zionists or mosad or cia....with the level of knowledge u have atleast comment responsibly...

This menace wont stop and will reach all corners of the world unless the people in the west rise up and start questioning the notorious activities and peculiar allegiences of segments deep inside their intel agencies and govt, this wont stop until we start pointing fingers at the right people, most people believe this terrorism etc are the acts of maniancs but in reality these are cold and calculated global designs of people who are benefiting massively form this blood of innocents, may the latest victims of these animals rest in peace...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gslv

Awan68 said:


> I didnt knew attaturk wiped out zionists or mosad or cia....with the level of knowledge u have atleast comment responsibly...
> 
> This menace wont stop and will reach all corners of the world unless the people in the west rise up and start questioning the notorious activities and peculiar allegiences of segments deep inside their intel agencies and govt, this wont stop until we start pointing fingers at the right people, most people believe this terrorism etc are the acts of maniancs but in reality these are cold and calculated global designs of people who are benefiting massively form this blood of innocents, may the latest victims of these animals rest in peace...


Here comes conspiracy theorists.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## SQ8

Awan68 said:


> I didnt knew attaturk wiped out zionists or mosad or cia....with the level of knowledge u have atleast comment responsibly...


With the level of knowledge I have, I dont make copy paste statements of zionists(you probably should learn by noe that Mossad is the intellegence arm of the zionist state of Israel, no need to repeat the same thing twice even in a copy paste instinct in your mind) or cia or raw. Just a whitewash of trying to hide from the truth.

I suppose your level of knowledge blames Christians in Pakistan for being blasphemous and then getting killed by "innocent" mobs??

There is a problem, a problem in muslims all over the world. It isn't Islam because Islam at the end is a collection of scriptures that people who call themselves Muslims choose to believe and express as a function of their own character. This problem isnt confined to Islam nor will be over time or in past years- but at the end Muslims are people we connect with and frankly the ones that bother us.

So Ill continue to use whatever knowledge and information I have to call them out where it is clear that there is malignancy within the body

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Awan68

Oscar said:


> With the level of knowledge I have, I dont make copy paste statements of zionists(you probably should learn by noe that Mossad is the intellegence arm of the zionist state of Israel, no need to repeat the same thing twice even in a copy paste instinct in your mind) or cia or raw. Just a whitewash of trying to hide from the truth.
> 
> I suppose your level of knowledge blames Christians in Pakistan for being blasphemous and then getting killed by "innocent" mobs??
> 
> There is a problem, a problem in muslims all over the world. It isn't Islam because Islam at the end is a collection of scriptures that people who call themselves Muslims choose to believe and express as a function of their own character. This problem isnt confined to Islam nor will be over time or in past years- but at the end Muslims are people we connect with and frankly the ones that bother us.
> 
> So Ill continue to use whatever knowledge and information I have to call them out where it is clear that there is malignancy within the body


So u r in the buisiness of passing verdicts n judgements now??, eh? no im not one of those who believe in mob justice, so stuf it next time before lobbing acusations in to thin air...n i take my words back , u have zero knowledge of things.....how dare u accuse my religion....i can lob accusations too n believe me libararies can be filled by the topic "terrorism n christianity"....islam maybe a collection of scriptires to u, but not to us, so keep ur extremist views to urself.....if there is a problem in muslims according to u, than why do u fail to mention the problem jews of israel have when they slaughther palestinians for their territorial genocide and the many many problems christianity has from klu klux clans to religious racism towards blacks to forced conversions and genocides of aborginals, africans and redindians to capatalistic wars in ME which created these groups, was there isis in iraq before the west invaded it.....these are humans murdering each other for capataliam nothing else, dont drag religion into it just because the media tells u to...n oh yeah mosad is the arm of zionist israel???..,.i didnt know that, focus more on the matter rather than bieng an editor of words, or maybe thats ur favourite escape route...there is a fat toad altaf sitting in Uk protected by the english govt, a uk citizen who has orchestrated the murder of thousands in karachi, how is he different than osama bin ladin??, why does the uk turn a blind eye towards that??, they are harbouring a terrorist, but its ok when pakistanis are getting killed, right??....ur hypocracy stinks to high heavens....


----------



## jhungary

Terrorist with alleged canister bomb strapped on their chest

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## atya

Oscar said:


> With the level of knowledge I have, I dont make copy paste statements of zionists(you probably should learn by noe that Mossad is the intellegence arm of the zionist state of Israel, no need to repeat the same thing twice even in a copy paste instinct in your mind) or cia or raw. Just a whitewash of trying to hide from the truth.
> 
> I suppose your level of knowledge blames Christians in Pakistan for being blasphemous and then getting killed by "innocent" mobs??
> 
> There is a problem, a problem in muslims all over the world. It isn't Islam because Islam at the end is a collection of scriptures that people who call themselves Muslims choose to believe and express as a function of their own character. This problem isnt confined to Islam nor will be over time or in past years- but at the end Muslims are people we connect with and frankly the ones that bother us.
> 
> So Ill continue to use whatever knowledge and information I have to call them out where it is clear that there is malignancy within the body


More like what Corbyn said, our foreign policy is floored. We invade their land, kill their families and rape their women but still are sitting bewildered that how on earth is this happening in our backyard. We (Nato and the Americans) started all this mess. And don't you dare point fingers at Muslims. These low lives don't represent Islam or it's followers. The word Islam means peace, and that is how the majority live.


----------



## ashok321

*Trump touts his blocked travel ban during ongoing police operations in London*


----------



## Awan68

atya said:


> More like what Corbyn said, our foreign policy is floored. We invade their land, kill their families and rape their women but still are sitting bewildered that how on earth is this happening in our backyard. We (Nato and the Americans started all this mess).


Dont bother man. 3-4 dead in uk is international news, a hundred dead in pakistan is just a 1 min clip shoved somewhere at the end of evening news to them...that is what i was saying, people of the west need to rally behind good people like corbyn ...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Clutch

antievil said:


> My problem with your comment is that the same people who are using the west as refuge for economic or safety reasons are indulging in these acts on civilians.
> War is supposed to be between armies not killing innocents.
> Ofcourse i have no idea what islam advices regarding infidels .


Killing of one innocent person is like killing all of humanity.

However, the extremists distort the text to their own benefit.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Awan68

antievil said:


> My problem with your comment is that the same people who are using the west as refuge for economic or safety reasons are indulging in these acts on civilians.
> War is supposed to be between armies not killing innocents.
> Ofcourse i have no idea what islam advices regarding infidels .


Strict Islamic principles of jihad laid down by the prophet(pbuh) himself :
Killing women is forbidden
Killing children is forbidden
Killing the eldery is forbidden
Killing all those who dont come to fight u( civilians) is forbidden
Needless destruction and looting of enemy property is forbidden
Cutting of trees is forbidden
Mistreatment of prisoners is strictly forbidden.

These are the islamic principles of war, so all this begs a question, who are these that are defying all the above rules and than claiming to be muslims?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## MultaniGuy

Who did the London terrorist van attack?


----------



## Awan68

Clutch said:


> Killing of one innocent person is like killing all of humanity.
> 
> However, the extremists distort the text to their own benefit.


Islamic text is clear and concrete, it cant be distorted.....animals are bieng animals and very carefully hiding behind islam to brand 1.5 billion people.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

Awan68 said:


> Strict Islamic principles of jihad laid down by the prophet(pbuh) himself :
> Killing women is forbidden
> Killing children is forbidden
> Killing the eldery is forbidden
> Killing all those who dont come to fight u( civilians) is forbidden
> Needless destruction and looting of enemy property is forbidden
> Cutting of trees is forbidden
> Mistreatment of prisoners is strictly forbidden.
> 
> These are the islamic principles of war, so all this begs a question, who are these that are defying all the above rules and than claiming to be muslims?


Agreed with you here

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> Killing of one innocent person is like killing all of humanity.
> 
> However, the extremists distort the text to their own benefit.


according to salafi muslims, there is no deed greater than jihad/killing kuffars and being martyred in the holy month.


----------



## gambit

antievil said:


> War is supposed to be between armies not killing innocents.
> Ofcourse i have no idea what islam advices regarding infidels .


A 'war' is mostly a philosophical construct or 'state of mind'. It means a state of hostility between parties.

The word 'combat' is when there is physical contact between hostile parties.

A 'state of hostility' or 'state of war' exists between North and South Korea, but no real combat.

From this understanding, who is a 'combatant' depends on one's personal philosophy on what is a 'war' or when a 'state of hostility' exists between parties. The current formality is that my country is at war, but unless I join the army, I cannot be a combatant. The corollary is that unless you join your army, I cannot see you as a combatant for your country. So as civilians, we cannot kill each other. We can stare angrily at each other all day long, but we cannot take up arms against each other.

Ideological terrorism is when the formality of war is discarded.

If side A believes there is a separation between a 'soldier' and a 'civilian' and that there is a sanctity on the 'civilian', any combat actions against civilians constitutes 'terrorism'. It is violence against that which is-not-allowed-to-fight in order to effect policy changes.

If side A responds by changing its own philosophical construct of what is a 'war' and who is a 'combatant', then there will be unrestrained warfare. Literally everyone is a combatant and therefore a legitimate target. The word 'legitimate' here is not to mean measured against an extraordinary standard, like a law book that you have to consult before you do anything. The word 'legitimate' under unrestrained warfare is to mean to be measured against one's own standards.

Unrestrained warfare is what we had in WW II and in many lesser conflicts today. The horrors of WW II when states rallied national assets to kill is when we formalized the separation between the 'soldier' and the 'civilian' and placed sanctity on the latter.

This is why what is happening is extremely dangerous. The government does not have to print out a declaration to the effect of: " Citizens of A, from now on, all of us are official combatants. And same for Citizens of B of which we are hostile against. " Collectively, citizens of A can change their minds regardless of anything the government may or may not say about their status.

If this continues, it will be inevitable that there will be combat in the streets of European cities where Muslims and non-Muslims will not see each other as 'civilians' but as hostile agents supporting diametrically opposing ideas.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Roybot

*Two Jihadi terrorists are on the run after three are gunned down: Gang of five knifemen kill seven and hurt 20 after mowing down revellers in van and then going on stabbing frenzy at nearby bars*

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4569638/Car-ploughs-20-people-London-Bridge.html#ixzz4j03Gy3Sc 
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

7 Dead, many more injured. RIP.

Countries need to be super vigilant, especially during the Ramzaan month.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CBU-105

antievil said:


> already justifying the murders with the normal deflection line...
> 1. They are not muslims but intelligence agents of raw cia kgb etc.
> 2. They are not true muslims.
> 
> When proven to be muslims , then justifications ...


yep, see this cycle of a jihadi attack followed by that kind of commentary on social media every other week now, sad.


----------



## EmeraldRabbit

Why do these guys crawl out only during election periods?


----------



## CBU-105

silver lining, hopefully this scuttles Corbyn's chances.


----------



## gslv

Muhammad bin Hamid said:


> i think these attacks were done to provide excuse to ban Muslims entry in west by cia and western agencies


Again, another one crawls out of the hole.

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> according to salafi muslims, there is no deed greater than jihad/killing kuffars and being martyred in the holy month.


According to khawarji... not salafi just fyi.


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> According to khawarji... not salafi just fyi.


100% of all salafi/wahhabi muslims are just a hair-trigger away from committing acts like this.

------------------------------

'They shouted 'this is for Allah', as they stabbed indiscriminately' - How the London terror attack unfolded


----------



## PaklovesTurkiye

My heart goes out to the victims...I don't know what's wrong with this world. When will this stop? Why UK is being targeted only? I mean first Manchester bombing and now this...

Is intelligence sharing not happening b/w UK and other allies?


----------



## mike2000 is back

Muhammad bin Hamid said:


> i think these attacks were done to provide excuse to ban Muslims entry in west by cia and western agencies


LOL Isn't it? 



waz said:


> More news coming in. There were/are three attackers. This is not on the news yet.


Will be interesting to see the reactions of some of our leaders like Corbyn who has said if elected he will be against the use of force by the police or anyone for that matter to stop terrorists like this one who are carrying out attacks against civilians, that we should instead try and negotiate with them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## HeinzG

Muhammad bin Hamid said:


> i think these attacks were done to provide excuse to ban Muslims entry in west by cia and western agencies



Isn't it better? Why do Muslims flock to non Muslim countries when they can follow their own religion without prejudice on their own land?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Maler

mike2000 is back said:


> LOL Is it?
> 
> 
> Will be interesting to see the reactions of some of our leaders like Corbyn who has said if elected he will be against the use of force by the police or anyone for that matter to stop terrorists like this one who are carrying out attacks against civilians, that we should instead try and negotiate with them.



Send Corbyn to negotiate with remaining two!!!


----------



## mike2000 is back

Maler said:


> Send Corbyn to negotiate with remaining two!!!


I'm not sure he will volunteer though. He will probably prefer to send someone else for "security reasons"


----------



## Pakistan First

antievil said:


> Read the comments of awan68 , already justifying the murders with the normal deflection line...
> 1. They are not muslims but intelligence agents of raw cia kgb etc.
> 2. They are not true muslims.
> 
> When proven to be muslims , then justifications ...
> 1. Look at cow murders and kashmir , iraq, palestine, etc.



For us, MUSLIMS, this group of deviants who go by the name and brand of ISIS/Daesh have nothing to do with Islam. They are the dogs of hell and should be killed wherever they are. For religious references, read the quoted text below.

So, therefore, no one, who believe the religious scriptures of Islam can claim or prove these khawarijs to be Muslims.




> Anas ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “*There will be division and sectarianism in my nation and a people *(the Kharijites)* will come with beautiful words and evil deeds. They will recite the Quran but it will not pass beyond their throats. They will leave the religion as an arrow leaves its target and they will not return to it as the arrow does not return to its bow. They are the worst of the creation. Blessed are those who fight them and are killed by them. They call to the Book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever fights them is better to Allah than them*.”
> 
> Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4765, Grade: *Sahih* (authentic) according to Al-Albani
> 
> Ibn Kathir said, “If the Khawarij ever gained power, they would corrupt the entire earth, Iraq, and Syria. They would not leave alone a boy or a girl or a man or a woman, for in their view the people have become so corrupt that they cannot be reformed except by mass killing.”
> 
> Source: al-Bidāyah wal-Nihāyah 10/584
> 
> *Hadith* no: 172
> *Narrated / Authority Of:* Abu Zubair
> that Jabir bin Abdullah said: “The Messenger of Allah (saw) was in Jiranah and he was distributing gold nuggets and spoils of war which were in Bilal's lap. A man said: 'Do justice, O Muhammad (SAW)! For you have not done justice!' He said: 'Woe to you! Who will do justice after me if I do not do justice?' Umar said: 'O Messenger of Allah! Let me strike the neck of this hypocrite!' The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: 'This man has some companions who recite the Quran but it does not go any deeper than their collarbones. They will pass through Islam like an arrow passing through its target.'” (Sahih)
> 
> *Hadith* no: 173
> *Narrated / Authority Of:* Ibn Abu Awfa
> “The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: 'The Khawarij are the dogs of Hell.'” (Sahih)
> 
> *Hadith* no: 174
> *Narrated / Authority Of:* Ibn Umar
> that the Messenger of Allah (saw) said: “There will emerge people who will recite the Quran but it will not go any deeper than their collarbones. Whenever a group of them appears, they should be cut off (i.e., killed).” Ibn Umar said: “I heard the Messenger of Allah (saw) say: 'Whenever a group of them appears, they should be killed' - (he said it) more than twenty times - 'until Dajjal emerges among them.'” (Hasan)
> 
> *Hadith* no: 175
> *Narrated / Authority Of:* Anas bin Malik
> “The Messenger of Allah (saw) said: 'At the end of time or among this nation (Ummah) there will appear people who will recite the Qur'an but it will not go any deeper than their collarbones or their throats. Their distinguishing feature will be their shaved heads. If you see them, or meet them, then kill them.'”(Sahih)
> 
> *Hadith* no: 176
> *Narrated / Authority Of:* Abu Ghalib
> that Abu Umamah said: “(The Khawarij) are the worst of the slain who are killed under heaven, and the best of the slain are those who were killed by them. Those (Khawarij) are the dogs of Hell. Those people were Muslims but they became disbelievers.” I said: “O Abu Umamah, is that your opinion?” He said: “Rather I heard it from the Messenger of Allah (saw).” (Hasan)


----------



## mike2000 is back

terranMarine said:


> So why was it canceled?


Madam isn't feeling well. So had to help her look after the kids.


----------



## Huda




----------



## mike2000 is back

gslv said:


> Here comes conspiracy theorists.


There are always people like this on here, whenever there is a terrorist attack in a western country. However for some strange reasons they go silent and don't parrot the same slogan when these same Islamic extremists attack their home country they don't same the same thing.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## bhimram

Plan of action by the govt to tackle terrorism.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871224061111685120


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> 100% of all salafi/wahhabi muslims are just a hair-trigger away from committing acts like this.
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> 'They shouted 'this is for Allah', as they stabbed indiscriminately' - How the London terror attack unfolded


Does your hindutva give you such great insight into these people?

There are plenty of salafis in your nation such as zakir naik and his ilk... must give you sleepless nights knowing so much...


----------



## mike2000 is back

*London attack: six people dead after van rampage on London Bridge and stabbings at Borough Market as three attackers killed by armed police*
share 
_




_

_ Nicola Harley 


Luke Heighton
 

David Millward
 

Sophie Jamieson
 

Barney Henderson
_
_4 JUNE 2017 • 5:42 AM_

_*Six people killed in van and stabbings attack*_
_*Attack lasted eight minutes*_
_*Three attackers shot dead by police*_
_*'I saw a man with a large blade': witnesses describe attack *_
_*Londoners offer shelter and rides to help those caught up in attacks*_
_*Donald Trump tells London 'we are with you' after terror attack*_
_*Who are the suspects behind the London terrorist attack*_
_*London terror attacks: everything we know *_
_*'They shouted 'this is is for Allah', as they stabbed indiscriminately' - How the London terror attack unfolded*_
_
Six people have been killed and and multiple people are injured in a terrorist "rampage" at two central London landmarks. 

Three attackers were shot dead by police in the attack on London Bridge and Borough Market. Police said they believed there were no more than three attackers.

A white transit van ploughed into a crowd of people on the bridge at speed shortly after 10pm. The three men then attacker people with knives at nearby Borough Market.






Credit: Gabriele Sciotto
The London Ambulance Service said more than 30 injured people had been taken to six hospitals. The Metropolitan Police force declared the attacks "terrorist incidents."

Hours after the attacks began, a large area of central London remained cordoned off and police told people to avoid the area, leaving tourists and revelers struggling to get home. 

Bursts of gunfire echoed through the streets - likely from armed police - and at least three blasts rang out as police performed controlled explosions. 

One picture from the Borough Market area showed a man lying on the ground who appears to have canisters strapped to him. Police later said the men were wearing hoax suicide vests.




People were evacuated from the area CREDIT: REUTERS / NEIL HALL 
Holly Jones, a BBC reporter at London Bridge when the first incident happened, said a van had swerved off the road into a crowd of pedestrians.

"A white van driver came speeding - probably about 50mph - veered of the road into the crowds of people who were walking along the pavement," she told BBC News. People were thrown 20 feet into the air. One person reportedly jumped into the river to evade the attackers.

Within minutes there were reports of a second incident at Borough Market on the south bank of the Thames. One cab driver said three men ran towards the market stabbing people - including a young girl - as they ran. 



An eyewitness on London Bridge, told the BBC he saw three men stabbing people indiscriminately, shouting "this is for Allah" in a "rampage".

Police entered bars and restaurants in the Southwark area around 11pm and told customers to get down on the floor amid reports that the incident was still ongoing. People outdoors were told by yelling police officers to run from the area as the atmosphere turned to one of “hysteria”.

Shortly before midnight police said they were attending a third incident in the Vauxhall area, but later said it was not connected.

British Transport Police said they were aware of reports of “multiple” casualties.

Prime Minister Theresa May, who was understood to be at her Maidenhead constituency when she was alerted to the news, will chair a Cobra meeting first thing on Sunday morning.

People were evacuated from hotels CREDIT: JEFF MOORE 
The attack comes less than a fortnight after the Manchester suicide bombing and just three months after a terrorist ploughed into pedestrians on Westminster Bridge before stabbing a policeman to death at Parliament.

US President Donald Trump offered assistance to Britain via Twitter. "Whatever the United States can do to help out in London and the UK, we will be there - we are with you. God bless!".



5:39am
*5.30am summary*
These are the facts of the London terror attack on Saturday night:


Police were called at around 10.08pm to reports of a vehicle striking pedestrians on London Bridge;
The white van then continued to drive to Borough Market;
Three men then left the vehicle and began to stab people, including a British Transport Police Officer;
The suspects were confronted and shot dead by police at Borough Market within eight minutes of the first call being made;
At least six people were killed, and more than 30 injured.
5:17am

*Juncker and Modi send their thoughts and prayers*
The President of the European Commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, tweeted: "Following latest London incidents with horror. Thoughts and prayers are with the victims and their families. Please stay safe." Indian Prime Minisiter Narendra Modi called the attack "shocking" and "anguishing".

"We condemn them," he said. "My thoughts are with the families of the deceased & prayers with the injured."

5:16am
*More than 80 medics responded to the attacks*


5:03am
*Islamic State had called for 'all-out war' on West at start of Ramadan after Manchester attack*
Josie Ensor reported last week:

European security services are bracing for more attacks during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan, after Islamic State called on its followers to rise up in an “all-out war” on "infidels” in the West.

Saturday (May 27) marks the start of a 30-day period of fasting and reflection in the Islamic world, which has in recent years seen a large uptick in Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isil) terror attacks.

“Muslim brothers in Europe who can’t reach the Islamic State lands, attack them in their homes, their markets, their roads and their forums,” the jihadist group said in a message entitled Where are the lions of war? and published on YouTube.

Defending themselves after the suicide attack on Manchester Arena, which left 22 mostly children and teenagers dead, the group said: “Do not despise the work. Your targeting of the so-called innocents and civilians is beloved by us and the most effective, so go forth and may you get a great reward or martyrdom in Ramadan.”

There have been no claims of responsibility for the London terror attack.

Read the full article.

4:59am
*Police: London attackers were wearing hoax suicide vests*




4:51am
*Police appeal for any images or video of the attack*


4:44am
*Calls for General Election to be suspended*
Several people on social media are calling for the General Election to be suspended.



4:40am
*British Transport Police officer 'seriously injured'*
A British Transport Police (BTP) officer was stabbed in the face as he responded to the terrorist incident at London Bridge.

Emergency services rushed to the scene following reports of a vehicle ploughing into pedestrians around London Bridge and stabbings at Borough Market shortly after 10pm.

The BTP officer, who was on duty, was one of the first on the scene after he responded to calls for help from the public, the force said.

A spokeswoman said it was believed he was targeted by one of the three attackers who were later shot dead by police.

BTP said in a statement: "He received injuries to his head, face and leg, which, at this time, are believed to be serious but not life threatening."

"The officer is currently being treated in a central London hospital and his family are with him while he receives treatment."

4:24am

*Additional police deployed in London*


4:23am
*Australian senator describes 'panic and dread'*
An Australian politician has described the “panic and dread” of being caught up in the attacks in London.

Senator Sam Dastyari, who had been speaking to London Mayor Sadiq Kahn about terrorism earlier in the day, said he was having dinner near London Bridge at the time of the attack.

"We heard screaming — You could obviously tell there was an incident and someone starts running past, obviously covered in blood, kind of down the street," Senator Dastyari told ABC News.

“It takes you a moment to register whether or not obviously if it's a bar fight gone wrong or that kind of thing — you don't know whether it's anything more serious than that.

"The restaurants started to go into lockdown. There was a real sense of panic and dread that obviously runs through in these kind of scenarios."

He said police swept into their restaurant and moved the patrons upstairs to safety.

Mr Dastyari said he had been speaking to Mr Khan earlier in the day.

"We had a general chat. Sadiq said to me, 'The reality of being mayor is you have to be ready for these types of incidents now. They happen'."

4:14am
*'They could be anywhere, this is out of control'*
Carrying her nine-year old daughter, Danny Farre, said: “This is a complete nightmare, we are stuck here while there are maniacs on the loose and nobody is helping us,” she told the New York Times. “They could be anywhere, this is out of control.”

Les Hunter, 33, from Liverpool, who was visiting a friend in London, stepped out of a pub as the incident unfolded at 10.15 pm

"We saw people running out of Borough Market and straight after heard gunshots,” he said.

“We went back into the pub and people starting running in telling us to get down and hide,” he recalled. “I ran up to the gents and hid, but when I looked out the window I saw a guy with blood all over his face and T-shirt.”


3:53am
*Six confirmed dead in London attacks*
Six people have died in the terrorist incidents in London and three attackers have been shot dead by police, Scotland Yard said. 

Police said they believed there were no more than three attackers.

"Armed response officers then responded very quickly and bravely and confronted the three male suspects who were shot and killed on Borough Market," Mark Rowley, Britain's top anti-terrorism officer, said.

"Sadly, six people have died in addition to the three attackers shot by police," he said.

"The suspects had been confronted and shot by police within eight minutes of the first call. The suspects were wearing what looked like explosive vests but these were later established to be hoaxes."

He added: "We believe three people were involved but we still have some more inquiries to be 100% confident on that."

3:46am
*Trump and May speak on the phone*


3:45am
*Security tightened in New York*
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo said in a statement on Saturday that he had directed state law-enforcement officials to increase security at high-profile locations such as airports, bridges, tunnels and mass-transit systems.



3:44am

*'All they wanted to do was kill people'*
Gerard Vowls said he was near the Borough market when he saw three attackers.

“All they wanted to do was kill people,” he said.

“It’s the hardest thing I’ve ever seen,” he told the Wall Street Journal. 

3:42am
*Muslim Council of Britain 'appalled' by London attacks *


3:35am
*Police appeal for people to let friends and family know they are safe*


3:32am
*Attacker stabbed girl and said 'this is for Allah'*




3:30am
*General Election disrupted by terrorism for second time within two weeks *
The attacks on London Bridge and Borough Market mark the second time the General Election has been disrupted by an act of terrorism.

It comes less than two weeks after the parties suspended campaigning following the Manchester attack in which suicide bomber Salman Abedi killed 22 people attending an Ariana Grande concert.

There was no immediate announcement whether there would be a further suspension following the latest incident - which came just days before voters are due go to the polls on June 8.

Police officers walk at the scene of an apparent terror attack on London Bridge CREDIT: AFP


3:23am
*Amber Rudd: London attacks are horrific*
Home Secretary Amber Rudd said the London attacks were "horrific":

This was an horrific attack in the heart of our capital city, targeted at people enjoying their evening with friends and family.

My thoughts are with the victims and all those affected by this incident.

As ever, in difficult and traumatic circumstances, I am extremely proud of and thankful to our police and emergency services who responded so swiftly and those who will work tirelessly as the investigation into this appalling act continues.

3:17am
*Met opens casualty bureau*
The Metropolitan police have set up a casualty bureau. They have also set up phone lines for anyone seeking information about friends or relatives who may have been caught up in the attack:


0800 096 1233
020 7158 0197
3:14am

*Justin Trudeau: 'Awful news from London'*


3:07am
*Friends search for journalist missing after the London terror attack*
Friends of Geoff Ho, a business editor with Express Newspapers, are desperately searching for him after he was injured during the terror attack.

They believe Mr Ho was stabbed during the attack and was taken in an ambulance, but they have been unable to find out which hospital he was taken to. 

Close friend Azeem Rasool said Mr Ho frequents the Borough Market area and was in a pub when the attack unfolded.

Mr Rasool described Geoff as his "big brother".

"I’ve known him my entire life, from high-school days," Mr Rasool said. “He’s an amazing guy and we love him and we just hope he’s safe".

Another friend Isabelle Oderberg tweeted: "We know he was stabbed and in an ambulance. We need news".



3:01am
*Police 'still searching for one suspect'*


2:57am

*Latest statement from the Met Police*


2:53am
*'They ran up and stabbed this girl - I don't know how many times - 10 times, maybe 15 times'*
A witness named as Gerard described the series of stabbings by three men near Borough Market. "They were stabbing everyone. They were running up and going 'This is for Allah'," he told BBC News.

"They ran up and stabbed this girl - I don't know how many times - 10 times, maybe 15 times.

"She was going, 'Help me, help me' and I couldn't do nothing. I threw something - there was a bike on the floor. I threw something at them like a bike or a chair."

2:50am
*'France stands by the UK, today more than ever!'*


2:49am
*People fleeing in terror*




2:46am
*Police 'cannot confirm all terrorists accounted for'*
Police are unable to confirm that all the terrorists involved in the London attack have been accounted for, Sky reports.

2:44am
*River Thames closure lifted*


2:38am
*At least 20 injured*
London Ambulance Service states it has taken at least 20 patients to six hospitals across London.

"We have taken at least 20 patients to six hospitals across London following the incident at London Bridge," the London Ambulance Service's assistant director of operations, Peter Rhodes, said in a statement on Sunday.

"We have also treated a number of people at the scene for less serious injuries," he added.

2:33am
*Hospitals on lockdown*
Three major London hospitals said on Sunday that they were on lockdown after attacks near London Bridge late on Saturday in which up to seven people are feared dead.

"Due to the ongoing incident in central London, Guy's, St Thomas' & @EvelinaLondon are on lockdown to keep patients, relatives and staff safe," the authority that runs the hospitals said on Twitter.


Guy's Hospital is next to London Bridge rail station, and St Thomas' Hospital and the Evelina children's hospital are located a mile away. 

2:31am
*'All Americans stand in solidarity with the people of the United Kingdom'*
The US State Department said America "condemns the cowardly attacks targeting innocent civilians in London this evening". Spokeswoman Heather Nauert said: "The United States stands ready to provide any assistance authorities in the United Kingdom may request.

"Our hearts are with the families and loved ones of the victims. We wish a full and quick recovery to those injured in the attacks.

"All Americans stand in solidarity with the people of the United Kingdom."

Australia's foreign minister Julie Bishop said: "We stand ready to support the British government as it responds to these attacks and our thoughts are with those injured and their families."

2:27am
*'Three men arrested'*
Neal Tate said he saw two or three young men in their 20s being arrested in Borough High Street. He told reporters he was walking around the back of Guy's Hospital when he saw police cordons closing the streets off.

I found myself in an alleyway trying to get through to Borough High Street and then I found myself behind a civilian car with loads of police vans there.

Suddenly there was an arrest being made - two, maybe three guys being pushed up against the shutters of a shop.

The police were shouting at them and they were being very compliant.

The police to me looked like regular riot police. They didn't seem like the armed tactical group.

2:26am
*Explosions 'are police monitored'*


2:14am
*Attacker stabbed girl and said 'this is for Allah' - witness*

One eyewitness, named only as Gerard, told the BBC: "I saw a geezer lying on the floor saying he'd been stabbed

"I saw these three Muslim guys run up and started stabbing this girl. They attacked her and stabbed another guy.

"They started running up the road, stabbed the bouncer at the Tavern.

"I was throwing bottles at them, pint glasses, stools, chairs, but I was defenceless.

"They were running up saying 'this is for Allah'. 

"They stabbed this girl maybe ten, 15 times. She was saying 'help me, help me'."

He claimed he had hit one of the attackers on the back of the head by throwing things at him, and was chased, but escaped unharmed.

John Stokes, London bus tour guide, said he counted eight people lying in the road or pavement receiving medical treatment on London Bridge.

He had arrived on the scene with a bus full of tourists moments after the attack, initially thinking it was a one-off traffic accident before seeing the number of casualties.

After the police arrived, he said, an office banged on the bus door and told everyone on the bus to run towards Monument.

"All the tourists on our bus ran for their lives," he said. 

2:07am
*Ariana Grande sends her prayers to London *
The popstar is due to play a benefit concert in Manchester today after her show was attacked by a suicide bomber two weeks ago. 

2:04am
*Diners locked into restaurants as they hide from attackers*
Jacky Dixon, 72, was having dinner with her husband in Applebee's restaurant in Borough Market when a girl ran in shouting: "There's someone out there with a gun and a machete."

She said: "She was absolutely beside herself. I think she actually saved our lives because the manager just shouted 'run' and we all went upstairs as he locked the doors.

"There were around 35 of us, all the customers and staff. We were up there for about 90 minutes and there was a lot of noise outside and a lot of shooting.

Members of the public, wrapped in emergency blankets leave the scene of the terror attack CREDIT: CHRIS J RATCLIFFE /AFP
"There was a burst of gunfire and then a second long and very big burst.


"When someone said we could leave, we all had to file out with our hands on our heads.

"There were loads of police and two robots. I didn't want to look but the others said three people had been shot. I heard they were wearing some form of canisters and the robots were there to disarm them.

"The police just shouted 'go, go, go' and we just ran for ages. We didn't know what to do. You feel very vulnerable on the street."


Richard who was in Arabica Bar in the centre of Borough Market said: "They shut everyone in and told us to get down because there was an attack happening. 

"Everyone panicked there were 32 people in restaurant. People were screaming. No kids in there but a pregnant woman was with us.

"People got down then there was an incident in another bar and lots of drunk people were panicking.

"I saw someone covered in blood holding a wound go past the window.

"People tried to get out of the fire escape of the restaurant but I said we should stay inside. Police fired guns, it sounded like ten shots close together an automatic style weapon. 

"I thought there was more than one gun my friend thought one we are not sure

"Another sweep was done of the street by police more coming and going then third sweep then police came back to evacuate us. I went past some people who hadbeen badly injured and were being attended to by ambulances

"I think both of the injured people I saw were women. One was in a very bad way, she was face down being attending by paramedics.

"The other was holding her neck and walking away and there was blood everywhere."

2:00am
*Another explosion heard at London Bridge*
Our reporters on the scene have heard an explosion in the London Bridge area. 

The police have not confirmed if it was a controlled explosion carried out by officers.



1:52am
*Picture shows man on ground with canisters strapped to him *

A picture has been shared on social media showing a man lying on the ground who appears to have canisters strapped to him.

It was taken in the Borough Market area. 

The BBC earlier tonight reported an unnamed eyewitness, a security guard who works across multiple bars and pubs in Borough Market, claiming to have seen a man with a canister strapped to his abdomen.

Stressing that the reports were unverified, the news channel claims the man saw the attackers after receiving a call from a colleague in another bar who said people had been stabbed. 

The eyewitness described people running away screaming from three men, one wearing a red and black top. He claimed one man had a canister taped to his abdomen.

The man and his colleagues tried to throw chairs at the three attackers, who were going in and out of different bars, before helping to evacuate the area

1:49am
*Sadiq Khan condemns 'deliberate and cowardly attack'*
London Mayor Sadiq Khan has released a full statement thanking emergency services and condemning the "deliberate and cowardly attack".

“The Metropolitan Police are responding to the horrific terrorist attack at London Bridge and Borough Market.

“My thoughts are with everyone affected, and I'd like to thank the brave men and women of our emergency services who were first on the scene and will be working throughout the night.

“I am in close contact with the Met Commissioner and senior officers and am being kept updated on all developments. I will be attending the government's emergency Cobra meeting later this morning.

“London Bridge Station is closed and we are asking people to avoid the area.

“The situation is still unfolding and I would ask all Londoners and visitors to our city to remain calm and vigilant. Please report anything suspicious to the police, but only call 999 in an emergency.

“We don't yet know the full details, but this was a deliberate and cowardly attack on innocent Londoners and visitors to our city enjoying their Saturday night. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms. There is no justification whatsoever for such barbaric acts.

“For further updates or information please follow the Metropolitan Police on Twitter.”

1:41am
*'Explosions' heard at Borough Market *
Three explosions were heard at Borough Market at 1.25am. Reporters on the scene believe them to have been controlled explosions by the police. 

"The first was small," said Telegraph reporter Kate McCann.


"The second a lot louder and then there has just been a third."

1:32am
*Emergency services rush to treat wounded *
Alex Shellum, who was in the Mudlark pub with his girlfriend and two other friends, told the BBC: "At around 10pm a woman who appeared to be in her early 20s staggered into the blood bleeding heavily from the neck and her mouth.

"It appeared to myself and my friends that her throat had been cut.

Credit: DANIEL SORABJI/AFP 
"People went to her aid and the pub was shut.

"I could see to my left another individual outside the pub having CPR from the emergency services."

Credit: CHRIS J RATCLIFFE/AFP
Redmond Shannon, journalist, tells the BBC that the violence was so extreme that witnesses he has spoken to are too traumatised to explain it.

One young man, he said, "told me that he saw a knife. He saw something happen which he said he couldn't articulate. He was extremely traumatised. He said if it had been two minutes later it would have been him."

People were evacuated from the scenes CREDIT: TOLGA AKMEN/LNP
Twenty walking wounded are being treated at the Andaz Hotel near Liverpool Street Station. 

1:27am
*How to let friends and family know you are safe *
As in previous attacks, Facebook has created a tool for people in the area to mark themselves as safe.

The feature allows users in the area to broadcast to their Facebook friends that they are safe, and for those concerned to check on their friends.

The Facebook page, titled "The Attack in London, United Kingdom", can be found here. People in the area can use it to "check in" as safe, and others can see which of their friends in the area have and have not checked in.




1:15am
*Video shows the scene at London Bridge*



1:13am
*Acts of kindness amid terror attack *
People on social media are offering refuge for those stuck in London.

Lara Al Ostta told Sky News she had been offered a lift by a stranger.

"We saw people running. We got into the nearest car, somebody offered us a lift. We saw a body on the floor people around him," she said. 

"We got to London Bridge, there were two pedestrians on the bridge

""We saw someone covered in blood. His shorts were covered in blood. I have never seen anything like it."

Quoting a further eye witness, Sky reported that an assailant came into a restaurant in Borough Market brandishing a foot long knife, there were four other assailants outside. Diners hurled chairs and bottles to force them back.

1:05am

*Families ushered to safety as local hotel is evacuated *
Our reporter Victoria Ward reports from a pub just outside the Borough High St cordon which is packed full of families, some with young children still wearing their pyjamas, who were evacuated from the Premier Inn.

Arron Miles, with two daughters aged eight and 11, was in bed when the fire alarm. "We just thought it was an incident in the building but we got to the door, the streets were swarming with police. I've never heard so many sirens.

"We were ushered down the street and were outside for a while before someone called us into the pub."

Barman Nathan Williams said they were preparing to close after a quiet night when three young men in their 20s had burst in, shouting that there had been a terrorist attack at London Bridge.

"They were talking about people being shot and lying on the floor," he said.

"One of them was very pale and it took a long time to get him to sit down.

"We bolted the doors and stayed put but then we became aware of a huge number of people, including young children, out in the street so we got them all inside."

12:56am
*Vauxhall incident unconnected to London Bridge and Borough Market*
Police have said that the incident at Vauxhall was a stabbing, unconnected to the terrorist incidents at London Bridge and Borough Market.

Police have now officially declared the London Bridge and Borough Market attacks as 'terrorist incidents'. 



12:46am
*Knifeman shouted 'this is for Allah' - reports *
An eyewitness on London Bridge, told the BBC he saw three men stabbing people indiscriminately, shouting "this is for Allah". 

He told how he saw a van driving on the pavement with people running out of the way, before three men got out.

"They literally just started kicking them, punching them, they took out knives. It was a rampage really," he said.


Armed Police on London Bridge CREDIT: DOMINIC LIPINSKI /PA
"They headed down towards Southwark Cathedral towards the bar, and starting running at people.

"People at the bar started fighting back. then the three of them decided to make their way up to the bridge

"A woman was staring at them and they started stabbing her.

"Throughout the whole way across the bridge, there were people littered across bleeding. People were trying to help each other."

He added he had heard them shouting "this is for Allah".

People were told to leave the area amid a 'major incident' CREDIT: DOMINIC LIPINSKI /PA
The BBC also reports an unnamed eyewitness, a security guard who works across multiple bars and pubs in Borough Market, claiming to have seen a man with a canister strapped to his abdomen.

Stressing that the reports were unverified, the news channel claims the man saw the attackers after receiving a call from a colleague in another bar who said people had been stabbed. 

The eyewitness described people running away screaming from three men, one wearing a red and black top. He claimed one man had a canister taped to his abdomen.

The man and his colleagues tried to throw chairs at the three attackers, who were going in and out of different bars, before helping to evacuate the area.

12:42am
*Theresa May: This is a 'potential act of terrorism' *
Theresa May has said that the "terrible incident" in London is being treated as a "potential act of terrorism".

The Prime Minister said: 'Following updates from police and security officials, I can confirm that the terrible incident in London is being treated as a potential act of terrorism.

'This is a fast moving investigation. I want to express my huge gratitude to the police and emergency services who are on the scene. Our thoughts are with those who are caught up in these dreadful events.'

Sources say SAS forces have been deployed in central London. 

12:32am
*Jeremy Corbyn: 'Brutal and shocking incidents' *



12:30am
*US President Donald Trump responds *
Donald Trump has just started tweeting about the London incident, our US correspondent Harriet Alexander reports. 

First he tweeted a demand that he be allowed to bring in his travel ban - something which will raise eyebrows here in the US.

He said: "We need to be smart, vigilant and tough. We need the courts to give us back our rights. We need the Travel Ban as an extra level of safety!"

 He then tweeted an offer to help the UK in any way.



12:27am
*Tourists left seeking accommodation as hotels are evacuated*
Staff working at a Premier Inn on Borough High St said that just after 10.30pm, a crowd of people suddenly burst into the hotel in panic.

One woman was hurt in the stampede. It was unclear if they had seen anything or were just reacting to the commotion.

Many of the 180 guests who had been staying there were evacuated as the police cordon extended and have been moved to a pub down the road.

Scores of others who were either staying in hotels in the area or live there were desperately trying to find alternative accommodation.

12:25am
*'Run Hide Tell' say police *
The fact that police have initiated the "Run Hide Tell" policy signals this is a major ongoing incident.


Witnesses at the scene have described quick the police response was. People in the area have been told to stay inside and lock the doors. They are urging people to remain calm as they deal with the ongoing incident.

Liam lives in flat above Southwark Tavern with fiancé Claudia and told Radio 5: "Out of nowhere we heard screams. The restaurant opposite had been completely smashed up and people were shouting 'he's down there he's down' there pointing down to Borough Market. We then heard five or six very loud gunshots.

"Then we heard in the Slug and Lettuce just across the road in the other direction another big bang and armed police ran in there."

Another witness said someone had been stabbed inside the Southwark Tavern.

"We saw him, he was covered in blood. He was knocking on an ambulance saying please help me I've been stabbed."

12:19am
*Theresa May to chair a Cobra meeting on Sunday morning*
Theresa May will chair a Cobra meeting about tonight's incidents first thing on Sunday morning. 

It is understood that the Prime Minister was in her Maidenhead constituency when she was alerted to the news. So-called Cobra meetings are named after Cabinet Office Briefing Room A, where crisis response meetings are held. They usually include the Prime Minister and senior cabinet ministers as well as intelligence and security officials. 

Mrs May held two Cobra meetings in one day less than two weeks ago on the day of the Manchester bombing.

12:19am
*The Shard and the Globe evacuated*
The incidents have taken place in the heart of a popular area of the city for tourists. 

Armed police have evacuated the Shard, the Globe and businesses in a mile radius of the scene.

12:17am
*People near London Bridge were told to 'run as fast as they could' *
Members of the public in the London Bridge area were told by police to "run as fast as they could" westbound, witnesses have told our reporters at the scene. 

Giovaanni Caccabelo was leaving Monument with friends when they heard they saw the van mount the pavement and strike people.


Credit: Ben Cawthra/LNP
He told the Telegraph: "I was actually outside the underground and I saw a white van drive into people. People were on the ground everywhere.

"The van was just mowing people down, everyone was screaming. People have been injured, they are trying to save their lives on the ground. The police made us get into a building and have put it on lockdown."

Speaking to the Daily Telegraph, a group of TFL workers evacuated from Bank Station said that some "nutter" had gone "on a rampage on London Bridge".

Paul Henderson, a TFL worker, said: "We got asked to come up about five minutes ago. Apparently some nutter has gone on a rampage on London Bridge, and we were told that there's been stabbings on the high street."

12:14am
*People in bars told to get down *
A man who was in a pub right by Borough Market said police rushed in and told everyone to get down.

He said: "We were on the floor for about 15 minutes while the police secured the pub, then we had to get down again a few minutes later.

"After 40 minutes they told everyone to get out. We were told to run so we legged it."


Video has emerged of police storming a bar.

Footage from the scene shows members of the public, mostly young and dressed for a night out, walking with their hands on their heads as they leave the Borough Market area under the supervision of police. 

12:04am
*'At least two killed' in London Bridge area *
Police sources have said at least two people have been killed in the London Bridge area.

12:00am
*Theresa May returns to Downing Street*

Prime Minister Theresa May, who has been campaigning in the General Election, was returning to Downing Street to receive further briefings from security officials, No 10 said.

White House press secretary Sean Spicer said US president Donald Trump had been briefed on the incident by his national security team. 

11:50pm
*Another incident in Vauxhall *


11:46pm
*Van driver 'travelling at 50mph' veered into crowds of people, witness says *
Holly Jones, a BBC reporter who was on London Bridge at the time of the incident, said she had seen a man in handcuffs being taken away from the scene.

She said a white transit van had knocked several pedestrians over, estimating five or six casualties injured or seriously injured.

"A white van driver came speeding - probably about 50mph - veered of the road into the crowds of people who were walking along the pavement," she told BBC News.

"He swerved right round me and then hit about five or six people. He hit about two people in front of me and then three behind.

I'd say there are about four severely injured people. They all have paramedics assisting them at the moment."

Chris Wimpress, who works for the BBC, described the aftermath as "pandemonium". 

He went to the bridge after being told of an unfolding incident.

"I was told there was something major happening," he said. "As I walked down Southwark Street heading east, I started to see dozens of people running away, clearly distraught. Mostly young people, many of them in tears.

"Men walking in an almost zombified state, looking shocked

"It appears a van came down from the city into the London Bridge area."

He added that witnesses had told him there was a stabbing in the Southwark Tavern, while others heard at least 12 gunshots in the area. 

Two people, he said, had told him there were "men dressed in black"


11:42pm
*"I saw people outside running ... police told us to leave the area quickly"*
Our reporter Eleanor Steafel is in Southwark Street where people have been told by police to run.

People in the area are are hysterical, she reports, with one girl on the phone screaming, "It's happening!"

Armed police are walking horses of people away from the area and a lot buildings between the Globe and the bridge seem to be in the process of being evacuated.

Telegraph reporter Patrick Sawer spoke to bar manager Taylan Bonadie who told how he suddenly saw dozens of people fleeing away from London Bridge past his pub, the Trinity, in Borough High St.

He said: "People looked scared. They were running and police were telling everyone to leave. Somebody said there was another incident in Borough Market.

"We locked the doors to keep the customers safe until police advised them to leave and make their way home."

One drinker, Emma, who had been in a pub close to a London Bridge with friends, said they had been forced to abandon their night out as police cleared the area.

"We were having a drink when suddenly I saw people outside running and the next thing police told us to leave the area quickly. It was terrifying," she said.

11:39pm
*Reports incident is ongoing - Police tell people in local bars and restaurants to get on the floor *
Police have been entering bars and restaurants in the area and telling customers to get down on the floor amid reports that the incident is still ongoing.

London Bridge is closed both ways Transport for London (TfL) said, warning the public to avoid the area.

Trains are currently not stopping at London Bridge or Borough stations.

Scotland Yard said officers were at the scene and it would update with further information.

London Ambulance said multiple resources were attending the area.

11:38pm
*Latest pictures from the scene*

Credit: Dominic Lipinski /PA
Credit: Dominic Lipinski /PA 
Credit: Dominic Lipinski /PA 
Credit: Dominic Lipinski /PA 
Credit: Will Heaven 
Credit: jo55adams


11:32pm
*Police told everyone in Southwark Street to "run", our reporter at scene*
Eleanor Steafel says: "I'm in Southwark Street where everyone has just been told by police to run. People are hysterical. One girl is on the phone screaming "it's happening!"."

11:31pm
*Second incident at Borough Market, say police *
Police dealing with two incidents, London Bridge and Borough Market


11:30pm
*Police entering bars and restaurants *
Police have been entering bars and restaurants in the area and telling customers to get down on the floor amid reports that the incident is still ongoing.

11:29pm
*"Significant" gunfire reported and up to six shots fired near the Shard*
There are now reports of" five or six shots" fired or explosions of some kind from witnesses on Southwark Street, about 300 yards from the Shard.

"The sense I'm getting is that this is not a situation that is over," LBC's reporter on ground has said. "This is still an incident that is very much ongoing".

11:23pm
*Second incident reported at Borough Market*
Police are reportedly dealing with a second incident at Borough Market half a mile away.



11:19pm
*Police start mass evacuation of all buildings surrounding London Bridge*
Armed police are evacuating people within a mile radius of the scene, buildings including the Globe and the are being evacuated.

11:16pm

*Van "swerved into crowd"*
Holly Jones, a BBC reporter saw a van swerve into a crowd.

"A white van driver came speeding - probably about 50mph - veered of the road into the crowds of people who were walking along the pavement," she told BBC News.

"He swerved right round me and then hit about five or six people. He hit about two people in front of me and then three behind.

"I'd say there are about four severely injured people. They all have paramedics assisting them at the moment."

11:14pm
*Witness first thought somebody lying on the ground was drunk*
Nick Archer was swiftly on the scene.

"We had been drinking and came out the on to the road and looked and looked to my left and there as a guy, I thought he was just drinking but he was lying on the floor," he told Sky News

"And then a couple of seconds later, about three police vans flew past.The guys who were with the guy on the floor flagged the car down."

11:14pm
*Reports bomb disposal unit has arrived at London Bridge as injured being given CPR*
The bomb squad has arrived on the scene, while several people thought to be suffering from knife wounds are being given CPR by ambulance staff.

11:13pm
*Witness say they 'saw people being stabbed'*
One woman said: "We were in London Bridge station. An announcement came on which said that due to an emergency the station was closing and to leave via the nearest exit. 

"We left the station and crossed the road. There were lots of blue lights to our left on the bridge and to our right. "We crossed over to tooley street and then saw crowds of people running which created a sense of panic. 

"We ended up walking towards the river with a crowd of people. A few people jumped the fence. 


"We got to the river and walked down to Hayes galleria. There were helicopters and police boats on the river. We went into cote. 

"There was a woman and her husband crying. They said a van had mowed people down on London Bridge and were stabbing and shooting people. They were both very upset."

11:12pm
*Report Bank Station has been closed*
There are reports that Bank station, just a few hundred yards north across the Thames from London Bridge, has also been closed.

11:10pm
*"Police got out of BMW 4x4 , they were carrying machine guns" *
Will Heaven, the managing editor of the Spectator was in a cab on London Bridge minutes after the incident began.

"It was ten past ten, quarter past 10, quarter past ten. I was in an Uber going over London Bridge.

"I saw there was somebody on the ground with a small crowd around them. It looked as if somebody had collapsed.

"Then there was another person, not on the pavement but on the ground. Then the penny dropped that something had happened," he said.

"Police got out of a BMW 4x4, they were carrying a machine guns," he added. "I saw one person getting into an ambulance, they were clearly in a bad way, they were being comforted by first responders.

11:02pm
*"There was tremendous gunfire"*
Tony Murphy, a former serviceman, heard the incident unfold from his nearby flat on Upper Thames Street. "There was tremendous gunfire. At first I thought it was fireworks, then I recognised it was significant gunfire"

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.te...armed-police-respond-several-people-mown/amp/

_


----------



## Maler

Pakistan First said:


>



Who will decide, which group is *Khawarij* and which group is Muslim, if they chant the same slogans and read from the same religious text!!!!!


----------



## gambit

Pakistan First said:


> For us, MUSLIMS, this group of deviants who go by the name and brand of ISIS/Daesh have nothing to do with Islam. They are the dogs of hell and should be killed wherever they are. *For religious references, read the quoted text below.*


We are not interested.

For the surviving victims, do you really believe that as they recovers, they are going to think that what happened to them have nothing to do with Islam ? Wrong. Whether you like it or not, these attacks are associated with Islam. You can try to minimize the association all you want, even down to zero percentage, but for each attacker, his mind and his deed had 100% association to Islam. When was the last time a Buddhist killed for Islam ?

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Darth Vader

Sad News , Hope Every 1 is Safe , i really dont get it what they get in harming innocnet people 
These Scums Should be Stopped


----------



## Clutch

gambit said:


> We are not interested.
> 
> For the surviving victims, do you really believe that as they recovers, they are going to think that what happened to them have nothing to do with Islam ? Wrong. Whether you like it or not, these attacks are associated with Islam. You can try to minimize the association all you want, even down to zero percentage, but for each attacker, his mind and his deed had 100% association to Islam. When was the last time a Buddhist killed for Islam ?




Hence the term a sect.


----------



## Mage

Saddening. 

But this is what happens when you let the spread of wahabism in your place. Nothing will be done and more such incidents will occur. Its easy for these fu*kers to pick a knife and start stabbing innocent people or simply get a driving license then drive the vehicle over crowd. And who would you blame for giving them driving license or selling them knives? 


Strong measures needs to be taken to tackle wahabism and radicalisation. Targeting a terrorist or two won't do a thing. Someone else will fill in for them and commit another similar attack someday. The fight has to be against ideology. Start by closing down mosques that preach wahabism. Deport wahabi Imams. Stop preaching Islam in the prisons. Closely monitor Saudi funded mosques. Trace down where these institutions get their money from. Simply showing anger in facebook or twitter won't accomplish anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Clutch

Darth Vader said:


> Sad News , Hope Every 1 is Safe , i really dont get it what they get in harming innocnet people
> These Scums Should be Stopped



These dogs of hell will never stop... their ideology is killing innocent people Everywhere of all nations and all religions and races.



Philia said:


> Saddening.
> 
> But this is what happens when you let the spread of wahabism in your place. Nothing will be done and more such incidents will occur. Its easy for these fu*kers to pick a knife and start stabbing innocent people or simply get a driving license then drive the vehicle over crowd. And who would you blame for giving them driving license or selling them knives?
> 
> 
> Strong measures needs to be taken to tackle wahabism and radicalisation. Targeting a terrorist or two won't do a thing. Someone else will fill in for them and commit another similar attack someday. The fight has to be against ideology. Start by closing down mosques that preach wahabism. Deport wahabi Imams. Stop preaching Islam in the prisons. Closely monitor Saudi funded mosques. Trace down where these institutions get their money from. Simply showing anger in facebook or twitter won't accomplish anything.




Too late for that... most of their indoctrination is done online. You cant close the internet because their extremist websites will keep coming up as fast as you shut them down... you mention money... terror is done on the cheap... $2 for a knife 

They have gone social media

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Zibago

HeinzG said:


> Isn't it better? Why do Muslims flock to non Muslim countries when they can follow their own religion without prejudice on their own land?


Same reason why other people flock to developed countries is this even an argument?
@waz


----------



## Mage

Clutch said:


> Too late for that... most of their indoctrination is done online. You cant close the internet because their extremist websites will keep coming up as fast as you shut them down...
> 
> They have gone social media


Yes their ideology can be found online. But for someone to be influenced enough to commit such acts probably requires personal direction from someone. You are likely to be more influenced when someone personally explains you the ideology then tells you what rewards you are gonna get by blowing yourself up in public. And then angers you by stating how unfair this infidel society is treating you. You can't get this much online. Outlawing wahabi ideology is a move long overdue.


----------



## Zibago

RIP its just sad seeing terrorism become a norm all over the world :-(



gambit said:


> We are not interested.
> 
> For the surviving victims, do you really believe that as they recovers, they are going to think that what happened to them have nothing to do with Islam ? Wrong. Whether you like it or not, these attacks are associated with Islam. You can try to minimize the association all you want, even down to zero percentage, but for each attacker, his mind and his deed had 100% association to Islam. When was the last time a Buddhist killed for Islam ?


So you want someone in Islamabad who had nothing to do with this act to feel guilty for something most likely a born and bred in Britain committed ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistan First

gambit said:


> We are not interested.


We do not give a Fu@k whether YOU are interested or not. We can feel your pain vis-a-vis China and Russia and your decreasing control in the region. Go deal with your own internal problem first...... TRUMP.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## gambit

Darth Vader said:


> Sad News , Hope Every 1 is Safe , *i really dont get it* what they get in harming innocnet people


They get paradise. No one ever came back from the afterlife to tell what the afterlife really is like. So for each of us it is faith on what the afterlife is like. For the atheist, there is literally nothing. For the religionist, the afterlife is whatever his/her religion say it is. In this life, there are guidelines on what to do to get the afterlife, which so far for every religion, it is either a reward or a punishment. We do not want punishment so we works for the reward.

No one thinks that if there is an afterlife, it is neither reward nor punishment. When you think about it, the idea that an afterlife is neither punishment nor reward is appalling for the believers of the three Abrahamic religions. It would mean this life is essentially pointless. All your goals and achievements are petty. God say 'feed the hungry poor'. Why do you need God to say it ? Because the majesty of the speaker have a direct effect on motivating the actor. So if God tells you to act this way and that way, and at the end of your life, you will be rewarded with a mansion on a street paved with gold in a land flowing with milk and honey, what are you going to do ?

The victims are not 'innocents' in the eyes of the attackers. They are guilty of < insert crime here > . At the very least, they are guilty of the crime of not believing in Islam and of not being Muslims. Anything else their governments did compounds the guilt.



Pakistan First said:


> We do not give a Fu@k whether YOU are interested or not.


Then do not post your scriptures.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## Pakistan First

Maler said:


> Who will decide, which group is *Khawarij* and which group is Muslim, if they chant the same slogans and read from the same religious text!!!!!


Do a little research online and you'll quickly find that almost all of the Islamic Institutions worldwide have declared these IS / Daesh and Khawarij.



gambit said:


> Then do not post your scriptures.



If you had read the scriptures posted above together with the fact that almost all the islamic institutions across the world have declared these IS/Daesh terrorists as Khawarij, then you should be able to understand that EVERY SINGLE MUSLIM is duty-bound to contribute towards killing/eradication of these terrorists from the face of this earth.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Take the debates elsewhere. They contribute nothing productive and just clutter the thread.


----------



## waz

Folks your last chance now. Post anything that's not directly related to the attack, and I will ban you. You guys took no notice of my first post.

You may set up another thread about causes, solutions etc. I want this clean from rubbish, so people can flow the events clearly.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Mangus Ortus Novem

Shocking.... this happening with high frequency these days...

May those innocent who lost their lives find Eternal Harmony. May their loved ones find Solace.

I fear for my Netherlands... May the Universe keep my countrymen safe.

There has to be some EU wide anti-terror mechanism. Why can't we prevent such horrors? 

European countries need to form proactive intel-sharing mechanisms and dedicated structures to deal with expanding threat.

Rot in Hell you terror scums.


----------



## jhungary

Quite Strange SIS and MI5 did not caught this one in time to be honest.

From the last attack (The Ariana Grande Concert attacks) is merely 11 days, the person responsible is most likely the same group of people and preliminary intel suggest these group is also on SIS watch list, but still, both GCHQ, SIS and to some extend MI5 did not do anything for it.

This attack is also called "Ripple Attack", this cell is most likely have some sort of connection and/or relation toward the May 23 Attack, and the effect of the last attack was brought on with this one. 

However, there are also chances that this is an individual attacks (ie two or more cell operate in the UK) but somehow I feel that this attack was let down by the British Intelligence Community

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Zibago

jhungary said:


> Quite Strange SIS and MI5 did not caught this one in time to be honest.
> 
> From the last attack (The Ariana Grande Concert attacks) is merely 11 days, the person responsible is most likely the same group of people and preliminary intel suggest these group is also on SIS watch list, but still, both GCHQ, SIS and to some extend MI5 did not do anything for it.
> 
> This attack is also called "Ripple Attack", this cell is most likely have some sort of connection and/or relation toward the May 23 Attack, and the effect of the last attack was brought on with this one.
> 
> However, there are also chances that this is an individual attacks (ie two or more cell operate in the UK) but somehow I feel that this attack was let down by the British Intelligence Community


I suspect this attack was a lone wolf type with isis only acting as an inspiration

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## bobo6661

Six people killed: London Metropolitan Police have confirmed that six people were killed in the attack. Dozens of others were injured, including 48 taken to five hospitals across the city.
The attackers: Police officers pursued and shot dead three attackers within eight minutes of the first emergency call, London police said. The suspects were wearing what were later found to be fake suicide vests.
London Bridge: Just after 10 p.m. local time (5 p.m. ET), a van speeding south across London Bridge struck several pedestrians.
Borough Market: The van drove onto Borough Market where three men jumped out and started stabbing people. Images from the scene showed some severely injured.
British Prime Minister Theresa May: Conservative Party suspends election campaign Sunday. May will convene a Cobra emergency meeting.
London Mayor Sadiq Khan: "Furious" about the attacks. Terror threat level has not been raised from "severe," the second-highest level.
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/03/europe/london-bridge-incident-live-blog/index.html


----------



## jhungary

Zibago said:


> I suspect this attack was a lone wolf type with isis only acting as an inspiration



It can be, but to be honest, quite unlikely.

A lone wolf would be just that, lone wolf, so you are looking at one or maybe two attacker at most. But this attack have more than 3 (possibly 5) person involved. Unless they decided to attack at random during a Saturday night out have beer or what not. That mean the must have been pre-planned and as with every plan, you want the people involve to be in minimum, because the more people involve, the more clue or source can be leaked.

So for 5 people to involve in an attack, some degree of coordination must have been followed, and there are most definitely planning involved (Saturday Night, packed London City and the fact that the rampage last 8 minutes but 6 people were killed (that equal to 1.5 minute per victim) there are no way you get that quick if you did not center yourself for the attack to being with.

Would that be affiliated with ISIS or other Terrorist Org is another story, but most likely than not this is not a lone wolf attack.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## mike2000 is back

jhungary said:


> However, there are also chances that this is an individual attacks (ie two or more cell operate in the UK) but somehow I feel that this attack was let down by the British Intelligence Community


Agree. I said it earlier on. I'm surprised as well. For there to be an attack less than 2 weeks after the last one (and a coordinated one involving 3 or more people means it's probably a cell) is indeed a major failure by our intelligence services, and we are suppose to have one of the world's best intelligence services and communication collection capabilities on the planet(shy only of the U.S).


----------



## Zibago

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree. I said it earlier on. I'm surprised as well. For there to be an attack less than 2 weeks after the last one (and a coordinated one involving 3 or more people means it's probably a cell) is indeed a major failure by our intelligence services, and we are suppose to have one of the world's best intelligence services and communication collection capabilities on the planet(shy only of the U.S).


Increased surveillance is one answer to this spike in terrorism in the past people objected to it but i think Brits will slowly embrace it



hussain0216 said:


> Its a common theme prior to an election
> 
> The aim is to create chaos influence a election with the aim of supporting or getting the 'right wing' candidate elected


It will be exploited but real culprits are sharia4uk type guys i wouldnt just call it a conspiracy we lost so many to same breed of savages

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Path-Finder

RIP to those who lost their lives.


----------



## jhungary

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree. I said it earlier on. I'm surprised as well. For there to be an attack less than 2 weeks after the last one (and a coordinated one involving 3 or more people means it's probably a cell) is indeed a major failure by our intelligence services, and we are suppose to have one of the world's best intelligence services and communication collection capabilities on the planet(shy only of the U.S).



Talk to my guy in the MI-6 after the last one. My source said they have their eye on some people that might have gave material or financial support to the suicide bomber, and they have file a report with the attack last time with the resource overseas (where the Abedi had money and receive bomb training from) and compiling a report for the local intel agency (MI-5 and SIS) to link with domestic connection. And that was 8 days ago....I would have imagine MI-5 people would already have the report done and the dot connected and raid those fuckers...

Or maybe they are too late for some reason and the people involve in this brought forward the plan? Not sure, but in all, I think this attack is the result for intelligence failure...The police should have had action related to the last attack done and that will at least found some clue about this one. Given if both attack are connected somehow



Zibago said:


> Increased surveillance is one answer to this spike in terrorism in the past people objected to it but i think Brits will slowly embrace it
> 
> 
> It will be exploited but real culprits are sharia4uk type guys i wouldnt just call it a conspiracy we lost so many to same breed of savages



I think London is already one of the most (If not the most) surveyed city??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Cthulhu

RIP to the victims, Fast recovery to the injured.
Jihadists have gone wild again.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> Does your hindutva give you such great insight into these people?
> 
> There are plenty of salafis in your nation such as zakir naik and his ilk... must give you sleepless nights knowing so much...


Mod deleted my previous reply to you.. anyway

Fine, let's wait for the identities of the perps to be made public and find out more about what type of mosque they used to go to. Salman Abedi used to go to http://mosques.muslimsinbritain.org/maps.php#/mosque/1799,. 

Check the theme and management bottom left.


----------



## Zibago

hussain0216 said:


> Its all power politics, based in revenge and anger


That i agree on the only motivation of the groups carrying out killings is hate


hussain0216 said:


> They want to kick start a cycle of hatred where they bomb a target eg London, which puts pressure on western muslims who are forced to protect themselves and withdraw from a hostile society and where muslim majority countries then respond with their own hate


These groups actually attack before the elections so that right wing statement becomes acceptable and more Muslims join their fold


----------



## Cthulhu

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree. I said it earlier on. I'm surprised as well. For there to be an attack less than 2 weeks after the last one (and a coordinated one involving 3 or more people means it's probably a cell) is indeed a major failure by our intelligence services, and we are suppose to have one of the world's best intelligence services and communication collection capabilities on the planet(shy only of the U.S).


You can't blame your intelligence agencies over this one. This new kind of attack is very hard to prevent, The only means necessary for this attack was a vehicle and some knives, how can they prevent this if every single car owner with some knives in his kitchen is a possible terrorist attacker?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Green Arrow

RIP to the innocent souls. Really sad to hear this news this morning. Pray for everyone who caught off in this tragic incident.


----------



## thesolar65

Can't do anything. Wait for the next attack.

BTW, Britain and all of EU must bring back Capital Punishment.

During Ramadan, Nations across the world must be extra vigilant, because at that time this virus attacks...Must be declared by WHO or UN.


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> Mod deleted my previous reply to you.. anyway
> 
> Fine, let's wait for the identities of the perps to be made public and find out more about what type of mosque they used to go to. Salman Abedi used to go to http://mosques.muslimsinbritain.org/maps.php#/mosque/1799,.
> 
> Check the theme and management bottom left.



I dont expect you to understand the nuances of a community you are not part of.


----------



## mike2000 is back

jhungary said:


> I think London is already one of the most (If not the most) surveyed city??



Yes not just London(which is the most surveiled city in the world), but even Britain as whole itself is the most surveiled country on the planet.

*The Brits: Most Surveilled in World*

Today, the English are the most surveilled in the world. With less than one-quarter of America's population, Britain has nearly three million surveillance cameras in the country.

Read more: http://www1.cbn.com/content/brits-most-surveilled-world
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme...automated-face-recognition-to-catch-criminals

So I don't believe surveillance is what we lack. The thing is it's also difficult for our security services to detain(maximum is 28 days )/imprison suspected islamic terrorists/radicals without enough prove to put them behind bars until they commit a terrorist act themselves. It's sad but true as well. So the only solution is to keep watching them until they are just about to strike or even better still(for security services and the sake of prosecution) when they start striking. That's the sad truth


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

RIP to the innocents.Depressingly familiar turn of events.
Hopefully more proactive steps will be taken than praying for london on twitter,hold candle march and temporarily raise threat level.To be fair,this type of bus/knife attack is near impossible to stop.The only way is to roundup suspected isis moles/scum who were being monitored - goes against democratic principles ,but if that isn't done more deaths will follow and at some point patience and unity will snap.


----------



## mike2000 is back

AUSTERLITZ said:


> To be fair,this type of bus/knife attack is near impossible to stop.*The only way is to roundup suspected isis moles/scum who were being monitored - goes against democratic principles ,*but if that isn't done more deaths will follow and at some point patience and unity will


Which is exactly what I said. We can't detain (maximum here is 28 days, before this rise in islamic extremists terrorism it was far less) them indefinitely without them actually carrying out the attacks. It might sound harsh but it's the truth. We can only wait for them to act before our security forces intervene and prosecute them. Else it will be futile to just prosecute and imprison them for supporting ISIS, Al Qaeda other radical islamic groups verbally or preaching hate/radical ideology. These are not enough to really sentence them for long or prosecute them, doing so will go against our democratic principles. So it's a delicate abd tricky balance we have to follow.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Penguin

mike2000 is back said:


> Which is exactly what I said. We can't detain (maximum here is 28 days, before this rise in islamic extremists terrorism it was far less) them indefinitely without them actually carrying out the attacks. It might sound harsh but it's the truth. We can only wait for them to act before our security forces intervene and prosecute them. Else it will be futile to just prosecute and imprison them for supporting ISIS, Al Qaeda other radical islamic groups verbally or preaching hate/radical ideology. These are not enough to really sentence them for long or prosecute them, doing so will go against our democratic principles. So it's a delicate abd tricky balance we have to follow.


Nor would we want to...

For starters, where would you put people you rounded up. And for how long would you keep them? And what would you do during detention? And under what conditions would you no longer detain them? And what kind of 'after care' would be necessary to effectively prevent any wrongfully detained persons to not turn into exactly what you do not want them to become (assuming eventual release).

See Japanse American detainees (and these innocent people actually - luckily - didn't turn extremist despite their ordeal). Nightmare scenario: see dirty wars in Chile and Argentina.

It's a can of worms.



bobo6661 said:


> Six people killed: London Metropolitan Police have confirmed that six people were killed in the attack. Dozens of others were injured, including 48 taken to five hospitals across the city.
> The attackers: Police officers pursued and shot dead three attackers within eight minutes of the first emergency call, London police said. The suspects were wearing what were later found to be fake suicide vests.
> London Bridge: Just after 10 p.m. local time (5 p.m. ET), a van speeding south across London Bridge struck several pedestrians.
> Borough Market: The van drove onto Borough Market where three men jumped out and started stabbing people. Images from the scene showed some severely injured.
> British Prime Minister Theresa May: Conservative Party suspends election campaign Sunday. May will convene a Cobra emergency meeting.
> London Mayor Sadiq Khan: "Furious" about the attacks. Terror threat level has not been raised from "severe," the second-highest level.
> http://edition.cnn.com/2017/06/03/europe/london-bridge-incident-live-blog/index.html



WITHIN 8 MINUTES. Even is adding some time between the first action and the first emergency call, that's a pretty right quick (and deadly!) response. Kudo's.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## Meengla

AUSTERLITZ said:


> RIP to the innocents.Depressingly familiar turn of events.
> Hopefully more proactive steps will be taken than praying for london on twitter,hold candle march and temporarily raise threat level.To be fair,this type of bus/knife attack is near impossible to stop.The only way is to roundup suspected isis moles/scum who were being monitored - goes against democratic principles ,but if that isn't done more deaths will follow and at some point patience and unity will snap.



RIP to the victims. What a sad loss of life.

You are right: Such bus/knife attacks are near impossible to stop. But 'snap' is the right word to describe what's going to happen. I'd say start with BANNING those mosques which even hint at fundamentalist Islam. Nothing good comes out of such sermons.

PS. I feel like it's just best to live in some remote island, away from the mayhem we call civilization. It ain't worth it.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jaanbaz

Three attackers were shot dead by the Police within eight minutes of the emergency call being made, great work by Police but there needs to be more done on the intelligence side. I know they probably working very hard but someone somewhere must have known this was about to go down.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Mangus Ortus Novem

Penguin said:


> Nor would we want to...
> 
> For starters, where would you put people you rounded up. And for how long would you keep them? And what would you do during detention? And under what conditions would you no longer detain them? And what kind of 'after care' would be necessary to effectively prevent any wrongfully detained persons to not turn into exactly what you do not want them to become (assuming eventual release).
> 
> See Japanse American detainees (and these innocent people actually - luckily - didn't turn extremist despite their ordeal). Nightmare scenario: see dirty wars in Chile and Argentina.
> 
> It's a can of worms.
> 
> 
> 
> WITHIN 8 MINUTES. Even is adding some time between the first action and the first emergency call, that's a pretty right quick (and deadly!) response. Kudo's.




My Countryman,

We need to also focus on early detection and re-education as well. Yes, I know I sound very un-Dtuch!

What about those imams who live off welfare and still preach hate? Why can't we just deport them? 

Religious freedom and freedom of speech is part of our constituition and we can never let any biggot to force us change that. But without going overboard we can have active monitoring of these for-profit hatemongers. 

I don't say that all muslims in NL are like that. Not at all...but these hatemongers for-profit preachers need to be dealt with. These are poison.

I say give one warning.. and anything that is against our Values or Laws... off you go where you came from.

I can not even imagine that something that happend in UK, Belgium, France of late happens in our country.

Again without breaking our own laws or violating our constituition we must act with resolve. 

Our tolerance is our strength and none can use it as our weakness. BVD must know alot.. we need to involve local police and community in a more structured and organised manner.

And no, I am not against any community or religion. In NL everyone has the Right and Freedom to practice their chosen faith as long as it remains a private matter between the believer and the believed.

Also, women are absolutely equal to men. Period.

I am in a bit of shock, so do tolerate my rant... yesterday, I shared my fear with you and here we are confronted with the evil.

Fijne dag verder,

SPF


----------



## Jacob Martin

Update - Theresa May has said that this can't go on and that "enough is enough"....

....now EVERYONE has to change their Facebook DP to a blank screen and EVERYONE has to sing John Lennon's Imagine.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Divergent

It makes me so sad to see London and overall England suffer, just a week ago everyone was recovering from a huge loss of 22 lives and now this..for those who live here are aware it has very little to do with religion and more to do with politics. The Labour Party is becoming very popular whereas the Tories aren't. Anything to do with 'take them out' and 'don't let them in' seems appealing right now and could take a swerve. Unfortunately it's a dirty and vile game which causes loss of innocent lives. Do I trust this Government? No.

Real Muslims were too busy opening fasts and praying, not mowing down people. It's a terrible incident.

But I have to admit, England in comparison to most Western Countries is tolerant and extremism needs to be stamped out.


----------



## waz

The response was quick and my best wishes to our forces who did a great job. Make no mistake about this, the UK is looking at its most darkest chapter since the days of the IRA campaigns of the early to mid 80's, which I remember well. However, unlike the terrorism of the past, there are no warnings and these savages plan to die in the attacks.

As for more information on the attackers, I'm afraid one of them is probably of Asian heritage.

On another note @Vergennes French intelligence has confirmed that the device used by the Manchester suicide attacker is exactly the same as the devices used in France and Belgium. So our countries will be coming even closer together.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## mike2000 is back

Penguin said:


> Nor would we want to...
> 
> For starters, where would you put people you rounded up. And for how long would you keep them? And what would you do during detention? And under what conditions would you no longer detain them? And what kind of 'after care' would be necessary to effectively prevent any wrongfully detained persons to not turn into exactly what you do not want them to become (assuming eventual release).


Exactly, which is exactly what I said earlier. Despite all the troubles this might cause , we can't do such a thing. Not only will it violate our democratic principles in Britain but it might also lead to public backlash in case of a wrongdoing. So it's not an option to follow.


Sinopakfriend said:


> What about those imams who live off welfare and still preach hate? Why can't we just deport them?



Well, there are rules and laws we have to follow plus there's also the European convention of human rights which prevents such rash actions. So some people might thing it's a simple question of "just deport these hate preachers and terro suspects and all". However I think such simplistic talk is just an emotional reaction rather than a well thought out analysis/response. If it was that easy to 'just deport' those imams or individuals who preach hate or sympathize with radical islamic terrorist m groups then there will be hundreds of them being deported every single month all over Europe. lol 
Just look at the difficulties our authorities faced deporting the notorious and well known radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, after nearly a decade-long legal battle (which cost the British tax payer millions) to expel the man once dubbed Osama bin Laden's deputy in Europe. Lol. So imagine the difficulties involved in deporting other far less known radical islamic preachers here, if deporting a well known radical terrorist was this hard. Thats the sad reality. It's difficult to find a balance between our tolerant laws and curtailing the activities of such radicals. So I believe we should look at other ways of addressing this issue. Just "Deporting them' isn't always the best solution, since it comes with its own legal challenges which can be even more frustrating than dealing with the aftermath of their attacks.


----------



## Penguin

Sinopakfriend said:


> What about those imams who live off welfare and still preach hate? Why can't we just deport them?
> 
> Religious freedom and freedom of speech is part of our constituition and we can never let any biggot to force us change that. But without going overboard we can have active monitoring of these for-profit hatemongers.


And we do. You realize there are also quite a few imams in our country that are not on welfare but funded by/from foreign countries?



Sinopakfriend said:


> I can not even imagine that something that happend in UK, Belgium, France of late happens in our country.


Don't hold your breath.... it is bound to happen sooner of later, just a matter of time imho.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## NoOne'sBoy

It's a fight for values without defined enemies. I don't believe in either leftist or far-right methods. Leftists believe in acceptance of minorities without demanding minorities to accept western values and right wing believes in full blown racism. Is there a middle path?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

NoOne'sBoy said:


> It's a fight for values without defined enemies. I don't believe in either leftist or far-right methods. Leftists believe in acceptance of minorities without demanding minorities to accept western values and right wing believes in full blown racism. Is there a middle path?


Very difficult to find a middle part, since when you do, one side will still blame you and call you names.


----------



## waz

mike2000 is back said:


> radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, after nearly a decade-long legal battle (which cost the British tax payer millions) to expel the man once dubbed Osama bin Laden's deputy in Europe.



He along with three others poisoned thousands of youth. He was allowed here in the 90's and given leave to remain, something myself and the traditional Muslim community from the Sub-continent objected to. The government just ignored the warnings. We need to go back in time to see the roots of all this.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## American Pakistani

mike2000 is back said:


> Exactly, which is exactly what I said earlier. Despite all the troubles this might cause , we can't do such a thing. Not only will it violate our democratic principles in Britain but it might also lead to public backlash in case of a wrongdoing. So it's not an option to follow.
> 
> 
> Well, there are rules and laws we have to follow plus there's also the European convention of human rights which prevents such rash actions. So some people might thing it's a simple question of "just deport these hate preachers and terro suspects and all". However I think such simplistic talk is just an emotional reaction rather than a well thought out analysis/response. If it was that easy to 'just deport' those imams or individuals who preach hate or sympathize with radical islamic terrorist m groups then there will be hundreds of them being deported every single month all over Europe. lol
> Just look at the difficulties our authorities faced deporting the notorious and well known radical Islamist cleric Abu Qatada, after nearly a decade-long legal battle (which cost the British tax payer millions) to expel the man once dubbed Osama bin Laden's deputy in Europe. Lol. So imagine the difficulties involved in deporting other far less known radical islamic preachers here, if deporting a well known radical terrorist was this hard. Thats the sad reality. It's difficult to find a balance between our tolerant laws and curtailing the activities of such radicals. So I believe we should look at other ways of addressing this issue. Just "Deporting them' isn't always the best solution, since it comes with its own legal challenges which can be even more frustrating than dealing with the aftermath of their attacks.



Kill them instead of deporting those swines.


----------



## Mangus Ortus Novem

Penguin said:


> And we do. You realize there are also quite a few imams in our country that are not on welfare but funded by/from foreign countries?
> 
> 
> Don't hold your breath.... it is bound to happen sooner of later, just a matter of time imho.




I know about who sends money and also the collection game... we can't just accept that it is bound to happen... there is always something we CAN do. 

I am sorry ... but you recall what happened to Pim van Fortuyn...and how all of us were in deep shock... anyhow, we can not just accept that we have to live with evil and wij gaan gewoon aanpassen... 

My heart goes out to the innocent who are victims of this nihilistic hate.

I do have faith in our security services that they will do their utter best to keep all of us safe, including our chidren.

You take care... you are good man with long and deep experience. I respect your views.


SPF

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

Sinopakfriend said:


> I know about who sends money and also the collection game... we can't just accept that it is bound to happen... there is always something we CAN do.
> 
> I am sorry ... but you recall what happened to Pim van Fortuyn...and how all of us were in deep shock... anyhow, we can not just accept that we have to live with evil and wij gaan gewoon aanpassen...


Who says nothing will be done, that we just adjust to the new normal? But let's not go overboard on the other side. Ultimately, you also cannot let yourself be forced to fundamentally change your way of life, that would in itself be a victory for the terrorist(s).



NoOne'sBoy said:


> It's a fight for values without defined enemies. I don't believe in either leftist or far-right methods. Leftists believe in acceptance of minorities without demanding minorities to accept western values and right wing believes in full blown racism. Is there a middle path?


People with a passport of country X that reject the fundamental values of that country but don't accept the consequence of that (namely, that they should get up and leave to go live someplace else where customs and norms are more in line with what they want them to be) should be addressed somehow. Because it is _spoiled _behavior of the individual to expect that society to change just because that individual won't adjust to society. This is one thing I like about e.g. people in the US: no matter what their ethnic background, don't you dare question their 'Americanness', their loyalty to the country and its institutions.



American Pakistani said:


> Kill them instead of deporting those swines.


Yeah, that will help. And what will we in Western countries be accused of then?

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## CBU-105

Sinopakfriend said:


> I know about who sends money


both the money and the ideology come from Saudi Arabia, why not just say it out loud ?


----------



## Vergennes

Penguin said:


> WITHIN 8 MINUTES. Even is adding some time between the first action and the first emergency call, that's a pretty right quick (and deadly!) response. Kudo's.



Impressive indeed. But I doubt had this happened in a rural area or small town,such a quick response would have been achieved. (Where in the first place there's generally a lower security forces presence than in big cities such as London or Paris.)

I am very concerned about those areas. Even if the risk for attacks in those area is low,we cannot rule out anything.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## mike2000 is back

American Pakistani said:


> Kill them instead of deporting those swines.












[/URL][/IMG]


Penguin said:


> This is one thing I like about e.g. people in the US: no matter what their ethnic background, don't you dare question their 'Americanness', their loyalty to the country and its institutions


Agree, I noticed that as well.


----------



## Gothic

from ramming jets into skyscrapers to chasing pedestrians with knives , we muslims have certainly come a long way .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Another polite reminder to stay on topic. If you want to debate integration, solutions etc there is a thread for this.

More news; all three attackers have been identified. Their names will be released shortly.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## PeaceGen

Penguin said:


> And we do. You realize there are also quite a few imams in our country that are not on welfare but funded by/from foreign countries?
> 
> 
> Don't hold your breath.... it is bound to happen sooner of later, just a matter of time imho.



yea, i had picked up on that a few years ago already, and sent out emails to that email list of mine that we need to keep madrases in our Netherlands under the same kinda supervision as needs to be done in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
i dont know if Dutch madrases and Mosques are as monitored as they need to be, though.
i never get direct answers from members on that email list of mine.


----------



## NoOne'sBoy

Penguin said:


> People with a passport of country X that reject the fundamental values of that country but don't accept the consequence of that (namely, that they should get up and leave to go live someplace else where customs and norms are more in line with what they want them to be) should be addressed somehow. Because it is _spoiled _behavior of the individual to expect that society to change just because that individual won't adjust to society. This is one thing I like about e.g. people in the US: no matter what their ethnic background, don't you dare question their 'Americanness', their loyalty to the country and its institutions.


Exactly. American with all its flaws has done a better job in this regard. I think contrary to what Europeans believe, nationalism is the key ingredient to integration. America makes people believe that it's great and desirable to be American and whoever feels American is accepted by the society. Europe needs to stop being apologetic to its values and hold them steady.

@waz why did you remove my post because a troll quoted it? The next question is obviously integration so it's related. Don't worry I won't reply him if you quote me to start an argument.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## PeaceGen

Gothic said:


> from ramming jets into skyscrapers to chasing pedestrians with knives , we muslims have certainly come a long way .


not all muslims are like that. and i thank you for making that clear to readers on this forum who by their nature tend to stick the terrorist sticker on all muslim(a)s.


----------



## waz

peacefan said:


> yea, i had picked up on that a few years ago already, and sent out emails to that email list of mine that we need to keep madrases in our Netherlands under the same kinda supervision as needs to be done in Afghanistan and Pakistan.
> i dont know if Dutch madrases and Mosques are as monitored as they need to be, though.
> i never get direct answers from members on that email list of mine.



Keep to the topic please.

@royalharris this thread is not for that. I have already warned people. Please comply.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## PeaceGen

waz said:


> Keep to the topic please.
> 
> @royalharris this thread is not for that. I have already warned people. Please comply.


ok.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Pakistani E

Here we go again, these lunatics just don't know when to call quits. My prayers, though insignificant, are for the victims. 



waz said:


> 3,000 terrorist suspects



Bro, last time I checked there were over 20,000 lines of enquiries on terrorism related suspects. The current infrastructure is just not big enough to deal with what we are facing. We need to expand our intelligence services, especially MI5, but even then, there is really no way to monitor thousands and thousands of people.

It is also very hard to gather HUMINT on lone wolves types when these groups are completely decentralized and are most often than not, not part of the original networks in destabilised zones. Otherwise they are a lot easier to identify and neutralize. 

In essence, it is nearly impossible to stop lone wolf attacks, unless the people they interact with on a daily bases notice irregularities and report it promptly. But that doesn't always happen. And that is somewhere we still have a lot of work to do.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Cthulhu

Sadly the Europeans are committing mass suicide with these current polices, No sane people would take large numbers of migrants and refugees to compensate their own low birth rate. You are way better off without us Muslims.


Gothic said:


> from ramming jets into skyscrapers to chasing pedestrians with knives , we muslims have certainly come a long way .


We sure did.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jetray

Only saving grace is that , these idiots look like amateurs. They were only armed with knives. If these idiots were trained or armed with firearms then the casualties would have been horrible. It also indicates that isil is on its last legs hence trying out such desperate attacks.


----------



## waz

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Here we go again, these lunatics just don't know when to call quits. My prayers, though insignificant, are for the victims.
> 
> 
> 
> Bro, last time I checked there were over 20,000 lines of enquiries on terrorism related suspects. The current infrastructure is just not big enough to deal with what we are facing. We need to expand our intelligence services, especially MI5, but even then, there is really no way to monitor thousands and thousands of people.
> 
> It is also very hard to gather HUMINT on lone wolves types when these groups are completely decentralized and are most often than not, not part of the original networks in destabilised zones. Otherwise they are a lot easier to identify and neutralize.
> 
> In essence, it is nearly impossible to stop lone wolf attacks, unless the people they interact with on a daily bases notice irregularities and report it promptly. But that doesn't always happen. And that is somewhere we still have a lot of work to do.



I agree but rounding up the 3,000 most serious cases can be done easily. They need to be taken off the streets.

I'm afraid this is not a lone wolf attack and seems to be an organised cell. They also seem to be of a Pakistani background, well at least one. Raids are now being carried out in East Ham. The neighbours also report the same thing. I may be wrong but the writing is on the wall for this one.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Now you know why I am so against these Pakistani's in the West who are infected with the Arab disease? you know the type. Father is Pakistan but they dream their father was Arab by wearing those long Arab style garbs, slaaping those Arab style head things and generally making gutteral sounds as if they speak Arabic and crying about Syria or Palestine when their own sisters are being raped by the Indian Army in Kashmir. All this points to a inferiority complex and weak sense of identity.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Pakistani E

waz said:


> I agree but rounding up the 3,000 most serious cases can be done easily. They need to be taken off the streets.
> 
> I'm afraid this is not a lone wolf attack and seems to be an organised cell. They also seem to be of a Pakistani background, well at least one. Raids are now being carried out in East Ham. The neighbours also report the same thing. I may be wrong but the writing is on the wall for this one.



If we start rounding them up, the loony lefties will come out with the racism and discrimination card. And the do gooders in the community will be up in arms about how they are being victmised. It really is a double edge sword with internment. 

I agree, and I was speaking generally about the past plots, especially the ones that were successfully thwarted in comparison to the ones that were not. And yeah, at least one of them seems to be of Pakistani background.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waz

Sher Shah Awan said:


> If we start rounding them up, the loony lefties will come out with the racism and discrimination card. And the do gooders in the community will be up in arms about how they are being victmised. It really is a double edge sword with internment.
> 
> I agree, and I was speaking generally about the past plots, especially the ones that were successfully thwarted in comparison to the ones that were not. And yeah, at least one of them seems to be of Pakistani background.



They need to be ignored. What has to be done has to be done.



Kaptaan said:


> Now you know why I am so against these Pakistani's in the West who are infected with the Arab disease? you know the type. Father is Pakistan but they dream their father was Arab by wearing those long Arab style garbs, slaaping those Arab style head things and generally making gutteral sounds as if they speak Arabic and crying about Syria or Palestine when their own sisters are being raped by the Indian Army in Kashmir. All this points to a inferiority complex and weak sense of identity.



I wouldn't call it an Arab disease, but rather the tell tale signs of a particular brand of Islam they follow. It certainly isn't the peaceful sufistic type that is the spiritual heritage of Pakistan. But anyway, let's stick to the topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Cthulhu

Kaptaan said:


> Now you know why I am so against these Pakistani's in the West who are infected with the Arab disease? you know the type. Father is Pakistan but they dream their father was Arab by wearing those long Arab style garbs, slaaping those Arab style head things and generally making gutteral sounds as if they speak Arabic and crying about Syria or Palestine when their own sisters are being raped by the Indian Army in Kashmir. All this points to a inferiority complex and weak sense of identity.


Do you have that kind of people? What about their own identity and culture? What's the problem with that?


----------



## Pakistani E

waz said:


> They need to be ignored. What has to be done has to be done.



We work so hard to rebuild community relations and then these wanna be righteous warriors come along and destroy everything and take innocent lives. 

I really want to see convicted terrorists and all their associates stripped of citizenship and sent to a penal colony in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## American Pakistani

All these mf pakistanis who resort to these ill activities need to be shot in the head. Atleast Pakistan did a good job creating military courts and hanging these b@st@rds. British and Pakistan should cooperate to, atleast, take care of all those pakistanis who even give a word that in any way support any terrorist group or figure.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TSA321

3 women arrested this morning
















https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...dge-closed-after-serious-police-incident-live


----------



## blondeturkish

rip. radical islam is a threat to our human existence. and we need to stop being politically correct. if we want to defeat them.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

The Metropolitan police just had a press conference. There are no new developments yet, but there were some details that were revealed that were previously not known. 
-50 rounds were fired at the attackers killing them. 
- A member of the public was caught in the fire from the officers and is being treated. 

The officer also said that the names of the suspects will be released soon.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Oh no she is Pakistani.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

Kaptaan said:


> Oh no she is Pakistani.



Yes for sure one is. It may actually be all three of them. Let's see.


----------



## Providence

@waz 

Damn was busy with work most of these last 2 months and the world has gone upside down. 

First Manchester Bombing and now this shooting. Paints a very gloomy picture for future of this country especially in the backdrop of all defense spending cuts and *** whipping we been getting of late  

@Vergennes HI bro !

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waz

Providence said:


> @waz
> 
> Damn was busy with work most of these last 2 months and the world has gone upside down.
> 
> First Manchester Bombing and now this shooting. Paints a very gloomy picture for future of this country especially in the backdrop of all defense spending cuts and *** whipping we been getting of late
> 
> @Vergennes HI bro !



That's right bro it's all gone to hell. As I mentioned before this is the worst Summer for terror in our modern history. It's such a horrible time.

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TMA

Sher Shah Awan said:


> We work so hard to rebuild community relations and then these wanna be righteous warriors come along and destroy everything and take innocent lives.
> 
> I really want to see convicted terrorists and all their associates stripped of citizenship and sent to a penal colony in the middle of the Atlantic ocean.


I tell you what will happen, community tensions will rise to boiling point. That is what they who have power want and are building towards a dialetical Clash...



waz said:


> He along with three others poisoned thousands of youth. He was allowed here in the 90's and given leave to remain, something myself and the traditional Muslim community from the Sub-continent objected to. The government just ignored the warnings. We need to go back in time to see the roots of all this.


Did they willingly ignore the warnings or just ignore?



CBU-105 said:


> both the money and the ideology come from Saudi Arabia, why not just say it out loud ?


And Saudi Arabia are best buddies with those who have power in the US and UK.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## British SAS

Another utterly disgusting, cowardly attack. RIP to all the victims! I cannot believe the audacity of these termite terrorists. Stay safe people.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TMA

Zibago said:


> Increased surveillance is one answer to this spike in terrorism in the past people objected to it but i think Brits will slowly embrace it
> 
> 
> It will be exploited but real culprits are sharia4uk type guys i wouldnt just call it a conspiracy we lost so many to same breed of savages


In the dialectical process, Britons will have no choice but to accept more "Big Brother" intrusions.


----------



## Vergennes

waz said:


> That's right bro it's all gone to hell. As I mentioned before this is the worst Summer for terror in our modern history. It's such a horrible time.



@Sher Shah Awan @Kaptaan @mike2000 is back 

Time for a crackdown on extremists and those preaching hate. You must not hesitate to close mosques that are deemed radicals and where what not activities are conducted. And of course deporting or jailing the hate preachers imams and the extremists that are brainwashing entire generations with their nauseabond ideologies and teachings.
Britain is a country that prides itself with its freedom of speech and freedom of religion,but this tolerance has been abused so much times by those kind of people.

@Providence Hope you are allright.

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## Zibago

Vergennes said:


> . You must not hesitate to close mosques


A partial or full govt control over mosques is what i propose for Pakistan and rest of the world in many middle eastern countries all sermons are approved by the govt

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## terry5

Oh shit Pakistani bastard involved 
The Pakistani criminals in England need to now go look for these kind of bastards And shoot them


----------



## Providence

Vergennes said:


> @Sher Shah Awan @Kaptaan @mike2000 is back
> 
> Time for a crackdown on extremists and those preaching hate. You must not hesitate to close mosques that are deemed radicals and where what not activities are conducted. And of course deporting or jailing the hate preachers imams and the extremists that are brainwashing entire generations with their nauseabond ideologies and teachings.
> Britain is a country that prides itself with its freedom of speech and freedom of religion,but this tolerance has been abused so much times by those kind of people.
> 
> @Providence Hope you are allright.



Thanks Bro. I am fine. I was in States closing some work. Planning on going back to Chester this month and be with family.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## gangsta_rap

The problem is that people like Anjem Chaudhry roam around spreading hate freely. Pakistanis in Britain want him to be booted but hes kept around by the government for unknown reasons.


----------



## TMA

GIANTsasquatch said:


> The problem is that people like Anjem Chaudhry roam around spreading hate freely. Pakistanis in Britain want him to be booted but hes kept around by the government for unknown reasons.


Unknown reasons eh?...


----------



## Penguin

CBU-105 said:


> both the money and the ideology come from Saudi Arabia, why not just say it out loud ?


Actually, a fair number of imams in the Netherlands are paid from/by Turkey.



NoOne'sBoy said:


> Exactly. American with all its flaws has done a better job in this regard. I think contrary to what Europeans believe, nationalism is the key ingredient to integration. America makes people believe that it's great and desirable to be American and whoever feels American is accepted by the society. Europe needs to stop being apologetic to its values and hold them steady.


Actually, it's a survival mechanism: if they didn't believe this, many would find it the quite horrible place it is in some respects (that same ideology als 'explains' the extreme differences in wealth etc). (and I say that as a person who knows the country and likes it people)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TMA

Zibago said:


> A partial or full govt control over mosques is what i propose for Pakistan and rest of the world in many middle eastern countries all sermons are approved by the govt


There is some measure of control, I do know to what degree though.

When I donated books to my local mosque written by Sheikh Imran Hosein, the Iman only put some of them on the public bookshelf, and when I asked what about the others, he said that they were relating to politics (specifically the British role in creating Saudi Arabia and supporting the destruction of the Ottoman Caliphate) and the government would not be too pleased if they found out that they were on a public bookshelf.

Perhaps this is an example of self censorship??


----------



## gangsta_rap

TMA said:


> Unknown reasons eh?...


Its the same deal with Altaf. Why was Scotland Yard told to close its investigation on him without any proper resolution at all? Stuff like this isn't right at all.


----------



## Penguin

Cthulhu said:


> Sadly the Europeans are committing mass suicide with these current polices, No sane people would take large numbers of migrants and refugees to compensate their own low birth rate. You are way better off without us Muslims.
> 
> We sure did.


You should first look at numbers. There are 81 million Germans. Do you really think adding half a million Syrians seriously affects its demographics (+0.6% in population)?


----------



## gangsta_rap

Penguin said:


> You should first look at numbers. There are 81 million Germans. Do you really think adding half a million Syrians seriously affects its demographics (+0.6% in population)?



A lot of people believe in the fear mongering re. refugees even when the numbers disprove it.


----------



## bobo6661

The UK’s National Health Service on Sunday said that 21 people injured in the fatal terror attack in London remain in critical condition.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/04/21-people-in-critical-condition-after-london-bridge-attack-6684209/


----------



## Zibago

TMA said:


> There is some measure of control, I do know to what degree though.


The govt needs to increase control to a degree where only govt approved sermons are allowed like in some Gulf states and those caught of preaching intolerant views shouldnot be allowed to be imams in mosques


----------



## CBU-105

Penguin said:


> Actually, a fair number of imams in the Netherlands are paid from/by Turkey.


That's fine, what they are preaching is what matters.

Are they from the Islamo-fascist 'salafi' school ? 

and if they are, the bosses at the Turkish outpost are on the al-saud payroll, go check.


----------



## TMA

Cthulhu said:


> You can't blame your intelligence agencies over this one. This new kind of attack is very hard to prevent, The only means necessary for this attack was a vehicle and some knives, how can they prevent this if every single car owner with some knives in his kitchen is a possible terrorist attacker?


The only way to prevent attacks like these, is for the (Deep) State to have powers and capabilities of monitoring/interfering/interning anyone who believes that the Quran is the actual Word of the Lord God and that the Son of Abdullah of Mecca (PBUH) is the messenger of the Lord God.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## American Pakistani

It is such a shame that some mf pakistanis involved in ill activities and give a bad name to entire community world wide. These sob terrorists should be tortured to death.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TMA

IronHeart said:


> Indeed it's our own leader's fault that sell their own people.


Yes it is their fault and they are doing this intentionally. They do not care about their people. They care about satisfying another's strategic interests...


----------



## waz

TMA said:


> Did they willingly ignore the warnings or just ignore?



Willingly ignored, we were told it was an internal problem. Partially every attack that has happened and plot that has be foiled has been linked to the events in the 90's.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TMA

waz said:


> Willingly ignored, we were told it was an internal problem. Partially every attack that has happened and plot that has be foiled has been linked to the events in the 90's.


Then they are also partly to blame, no? Also why did they willingly ignore...I am suspicious...


----------



## Rafi

Everybody knows this evil ideology comes from Saudi, the oil money has been invested in spreading Wahabi/Salafi intolerant extremism.

This is so tragic RIP and the murdering pigs are in hell right now.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waz

Vergennes said:


> @Sher Shah Awan @Kaptaan @mike2000 is back
> 
> Time for a crackdown on extremists and those preaching hate. You must not hesitate to close mosques that are deemed radicals and where what not activities are conducted. And of course deporting or jailing the hate preachers imams and the extremists that are brainwashing entire generations with their nauseabond ideologies and teachings.
> Britain is a country that prides itself with its freedom of speech and freedom of religion,but this tolerance has been abused so much times by those kind of people.
> 
> @Providence Hope you are allright.



Sadly this was a case of a guy preaching from his home, that is coming from the neighbours the press have been speaking to. The mosques have informants everywhere so they avoid them.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Cthulhu

Penguin said:


> You should first look at numbers. There are 81 million Germans. Do you really think adding half a million Syrians seriously affects its demographics (+0.6% in population)?


In the short term it just causes problems like this, And if they want to keep importing migrants and refugees to repair their own low birth rates, in the long term it will turn into an existential threat


----------



## waz

TMA said:


> Then they are also partly to blame, no? Also why did they willingly ignore...I am suspicious...



Negligence, stupidity, lack of understanding, zero facts, other Muslims fighting their cause and so on.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Rafi

The UK is a tolerant vibrant democratic society, if you don't like these values, then you should get out.

I am afraid no one in the govt has the balls to tell the Saudi what for.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## waz

Dear posters here is an actual video of the terrorists ooking for targets, just before they were shot dead.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/81...ists-walk-calmly-London-Bridge-Borough-Market

@CBU-105 please refrain from posting off-topic.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CBU-105

waz said:


> @CBU-105 please refrain from posting off-topic


wth... you deleted my big post to @TMA 

all of it was relevant, even if slightly offtopic. 

but ok, done with this thread till it's actual news about here.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TMA

Rafi said:


> The UK is a tolerant vibrant democratic society, if you don't like these values, then you should get out.
> 
> I am afraid no one in the govt has the balls to tell the Saudi what for.


They don't want to. The Government does not care about her people, she cares more for serving others strategic goals...



CBU-105 said:


> wth... you deleted my big post to @TMA
> 
> all of it was relevant, even if slightly offtopic.
> 
> but ok, done with this thread till it's actual news about here.


You can send me the big post privately.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rajkumar

Awan68 said:


> Islamic text is clear and concrete, it cant be distorted.....animals are bieng animals and very carefully hiding behind islam to brand 1.5 billion people.





Kaptaan said:


> Now you know why I am so against these Pakistani's in the West who are infected with the Arab disease? you know the type. Father is Pakistan but they dream their father was Arab by wearing those long Arab style garbs, slaaping those Arab style head things and generally making gutteral sounds as if they speak Arabic and crying about Syria or Palestine when their own sisters are being raped by the Indian Army in Kashmir. All this points to a inferiority complex and weak sense of identity.




you would be very happy to send them to Kashmir with guns and ammunition telling them 'their sisters are raped in kashmir' ? right ? it is always good to be 'freedom fighter' then a terrorist ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

More coming in about the attackers....


One of the terror suspects was thrown out of a local mosque two years ago after shouting that voting in a General Election was 'un-Islamic', MailOnline can disclose.

The man had been attending the Jabir Bin Zayd mosque in Barking for some months when he aggressively interrupted a sermon in which the Imam was advising his community to vote.

'He started saying that voting was un-Islamic and we shouldn't do it,' the mosque manager, who declined to be named, told MailOnline.

'He got very angry. I called him aside and said, please calm down. He refused, so I removed him. Thank God he followed me.

'When we got outside the room, he said you don't have authority over me, only God has authority because this is a house of God. I said that might be true, but I am in charge.'

The suspect had long hair at the time, the manager said, and did not appear to know much about Islam.

'He had no special friends here. He would arrive, pray and then leave. He said hello to people but generally kept himself to himself,' the manager said.

'He seemed an uneducated person. He seemed to have no knowledge of religion.' After the outburst the suspect was banned from the mosque and has not been seen there since, he added.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ackers-thrown-local-mosque.html#ixzz4j3SRABnz

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Verve

RIP

London Bridge had been my stop for past 2 years and walked through this borough market daily to the firm. It's a heavily packed market in the evenings.

These kind of events are fueling a lot of hatred for Muslims in UK.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Cthulhu

Theresa May has said:"It is time to say enough is enough."
Does it mean that they want to stand against Saudi Arabia or want to blame things on us again?


----------



## American Pakistani

waz said:


> More coming in about the attackers....
> 
> 
> One of the terror suspects was thrown out of a local mosque two years ago after shouting that voting in a General Election was 'un-Islamic', MailOnline can disclose.
> 
> The man had been attending the Jabir Bin Zayd mosque in Barking for some months when he aggressively interrupted a sermon in which the Imam was advising his community to vote.
> 
> 'He started saying that voting was un-Islamic and we shouldn't do it,' the mosque manager, who declined to be named, told MailOnline.
> 
> 'He got very angry. I called him aside and said, please calm down. He refused, so I removed him. Thank God he followed me.
> 
> 'When we got outside the room, he said you don't have authority over me, only God has authority because this is a house of God. I said that might be true, but I am in charge.'
> 
> The suspect had long hair at the time, the manager said, and did not appear to know much about Islam.
> 
> 'He had no special friends here. He would arrive, pray and then leave. He said hello to people but generally kept himself to himself,' the manager said.
> 
> 'He seemed an uneducated person. He seemed to have no knowledge of religion.' After the outburst the suspect was banned from the mosque and has not been seen there since, he added.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ackers-thrown-local-mosque.html#ixzz4j3SRABnz



Was/were he/they Pakistani/s?


----------



## TMA

Verve said:


> RIP
> 
> London Bridge had been my stop for past 2 years and walked through this borough market daily to the firm. It's a heavily packed market in the evenings.
> 
> These kind of events are fueling a lot of hatred for Muslims in UK.


Hatred is what the powers that be want...it fuels the dialectical Clash...



waz said:


> More coming in about the attackers....
> 
> 
> One of the terror suspects was thrown out of a local mosque two years ago after shouting that voting in a General Election was 'un-Islamic', MailOnline can disclose.
> 
> The man had been attending the Jabir Bin Zayd mosque in Barking for some months when he aggressively interrupted a sermon in which the Imam was advising his community to vote.
> 
> 'He started saying that voting was un-Islamic and we shouldn't do it,' the mosque manager, who declined to be named, told MailOnline.
> 
> 'He got very angry. I called him aside and said, please calm down. He refused, so I removed him. Thank God he followed me.
> 
> 'When we got outside the room, he said you don't have authority over me, only God has authority because this is a house of God. I said that might be true, but I am in charge.'
> 
> The suspect had long hair at the time, the manager said, and did not appear to know much about Islam.
> 
> 'He had no special friends here. He would arrive, pray and then leave. He said hello to people but generally kept himself to himself,' the manager said.
> 
> 'He seemed an uneducated person. He seemed to have no knowledge of religion.' After the outburst the suspect was banned from the mosque and has not been seen there since, he added.
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ackers-thrown-local-mosque.html#ixzz4j3SRABnz


So if a Muslim feels that voting in a Secular democracy is wrong, then ipso facto he is an "extremist" or "terrorist"? Or only if he shouts and interrupts sermons with his views.?

This is what I take is the underlying message of the above article?? It seems to me, that if a Muslim does not vote, he should be looked as a potential terrorist??


----------



## Jf Thunder

TMA said:


> Hatred is what the powers that be want...it fuels the dialectical Clash...
> 
> 
> So if a Muslim feels that voting in a Secular democracy is wrong, then ipso facto he is an "extremist" or "terrorist"? Or only if he shouts and interrupts sermons with his views.?
> 
> This is what I take is the underlying message of the above article?? It seems to me, that if a Muslim does not vote, he should be looked as a potential terrorist??


no, if he shouts in a Masjid that something is un Islamic, he should be labeled an extremist at least

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## F-22Raptor

1 French citizen has been killed in the attack.


----------



## IronHeart

Awan68 said:


> First learn the difference between an freedom fighter and terrorists u ignorant hick, fighting an occupation force is not terrorism, killing civilians is, which indian army does so well in kashmir, hence by classical defination indian army are the terrorists in kashmir...


"Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?"
George Carlin - Jammin In New York

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## waz

American Pakistani said:


> Was/were he/they Pakistani/s?



One of them is of Pakistani background. Although there are no confirmed reports, but the evidence does point in this direction.



TMA said:


> Hatred is what the powers that be want...it fuels the dialectical Clash...
> 
> 
> So if a Muslim feels that voting in a Secular democracy is wrong, then ipso facto he is an "extremist" or "terrorist"? Or only if he shouts and interrupts sermons with his views.?
> 
> This is what I take is the underlying message of the above article?? It seems to me, that if a Muslim does not vote, he should be looked as a potential terrorist??



No it's the way he was doing things. Also from experience these nuts who start hurling abuse during Kutbahs are usually deranged, and it's also a start of a downward spiral.


----------



## Gibbs

Bloody cowards!! @waz Trust you and the loved ones are unharmed mate.. Thoughts are with the British people.. I guess this is something you guys might have to live with now, Uncertainty

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Rafi

Extremist preachers need to banned and expelled from the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## waz

1 Canadian citizen has died. My prayers to the family and people of Canada who are our brothers and sisters in culture and nationhood.









Gibbs said:


> Bloody cowards!! @waz Trust you and the loved ones are unharmed mate.. Thoughts are with the British people.. I guess this is something you guys might have to live with now, Uncertainty



Yes bro all is ok. Thank you for your kind words. 2 Aussies were hurt but are recovering. Australia stands with us as well.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TMA

Jf Thunder said:


> no, if he shouts in a Masjid that something is un Islamic, he should be labeled an extremist at least[/QUOTOK
> 
> 
> 
> 
> waz said:
> 
> 
> 
> One of them is of Pakistani background. Although there are no confirmed reports, but the evidence does point in this direction.
> 
> 
> 
> No it's the way he was doing things. Also from experience these nuts who start hurling abuse during Kutbahs are usually deranged, and it's also a start of downward spiral.
Click to expand...




waz said:


> One of them is of Pakistani background. Although there are no confirmed reports, but the evidence does point in this direction.
> 
> 
> 
> No it's the way he was doing things. Also from experience these nuts who start hurling abuse during Kutbahs are usually deranged, and it's also a start of downward spiral.



Fair enough. However I must say that IMHO, the perception that they want the reader to go away with is not look out for Muslims who shout and interrupt sermons but rather those who do not vote as they consider it un islamic.


----------



## CHI RULES

The sad incidents have been happening in Pakistan and many other Muslim countries due to wrong policies of West/USA and now consequences are being felt in West. It all should be stopped by reconciliation instead of hatred.
The majority of terrorist acts done by persons who are natives of these countries by birth. You can't stop extremism by hatred or killing people but by dialogue.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Pakistani E

Vergennes said:


> @Sher Shah Awan @Kaptaan @mike2000 is back
> 
> Time for a crackdown on extremists and those preaching hate. You must not hesitate to close mosques that are deemed radicals and where what not activities are conducted. And of course deporting or jailing the hate preachers imams and the extremists that are brainwashing entire generations with their nauseabond ideologies and teachings.
> Britain is a country that prides itself with its freedom of speech and freedom of religion,but this tolerance has been abused so much times by those kind of people.
> 
> @Providence Hope you are allright.



My thoughts exactly. But will our government/institutions feel the same way? I can't say. They have continuously tolerated these delinquents for over two decades now. Even the Libyan terrorist who carried out the attack in Manchester was the son of a well known Islamist fighter who fought against Gaddafi in the 90s and then was given refuge here. 

The radicals were/are reported many times but when will the government grow a spine? I don't know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Awan68

IronHeart said:


> "Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?"
> George Carlin - Jammin In New York


Spend a week in palestine or kashmir and you would know.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## JK!

Memories of President Musharraf being asked years ago about extremists in the UK.

His response to the interviewer was well why have you let them in?

Unbelievable that we are having this conversation during the month of Ramadan. Astagfirullah.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Jf Thunder

TMA said:


> Fair enough. However I must say that IMHO, the perception that they want the reader to go away with is not look out for Muslims who shout and interrupt sermons but rather those who do not vote as they consider it un islamic.


shouting is bad, considering voting un Islamic but keeping it to yourself is acceptable

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

Cthulhu said:


> In the short term it just causes problems like this, And if they want to keep importing migrants and refugees to repair their own low birth rates, in the long term it will turn into an existential threat


Please check how many people in German already are of migrant source, even before Syria and Iraq.


----------



## Vergennes

F-22Raptor said:


> 1 French citizen has been killed in the attack.



RIP.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871429567793303552
7 are still hospitalized while 4 are in critical state. Another is still missing.

May they get well as soon as possible. Same to all the others affected by this attack.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## TMA

Jf Thunder said:


> shouting is bad, considering voting un Islamic but keeping it to yourself is acceptable


Yes but what if a Muslim politely tells others his views? You may say that it is fine, but they who mould public opinion do not.

Like I said it seems the perception they wish the reader to go away with is, if a Muslim does not vote, he is to be considered suspicious...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TMA

DesiGuy said:


> no...there is problem with islam first...it begins with one of main verses that goes something like this...there is no god but allah....from here problems starts with muslims...


Thank you for your honesty. Oh how I wish others were as honest as you are.


----------



## waz

It has now emerged that one of the men was reported by *his friend *to the authorities for his views and sharp decline into radicalism and nothing was done about it. 

A friend of one of the suspected attackers says he had reported him to the anti-terror hotline, but no action was taken. 

The man, who asked not to be named, told the BBC's Asian Network that the pair had spoken about previous attacks and he was shocked at what he had heard.

"We spoke about a particular attack that had happened and, like most radicals, he had a justification for anything, everything and anything," he said. "That day I realised that I need to contact the authorities."

But the friend claims the suspected attacker was not arrested and was allowed to keep his passport.

"I phoned the anti-terrorist hotline and spoke to the gentleman," he said. "I told him about our conversation and why I think he has been radicalised. 

"I did my bit, but the authorities didn't do their bit."

The BBC has asked Scotland Yard for a response.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-40147014


A shocking lapse in intelligence and follow ups. When the community reports someone it's obviously serious. The same happened with the Manchester attacker, and he was reported no less than five times.

@DesiGuy Oscar's post was a quite a while ago. I have also been clear I want such debate off this thread. Thanks.

Reactions: Like Like:
6


----------



## ashok321

*FLASHBACK : London Mayor Declares Muslims Don't Need to "ASSIMILATE"*

According to the Muslim mayor of London, people from Muslim countries do not "assimilate" to Western culture. As someone who hails from Michigan, a state with the highest Lebanese population outside...

truthfeed.com


----------



## DesiGuy

waz said:


> @DesiGuy Oscar's post was a quite a while ago. I have also been clear I want such debate off this thread. Thanks.



that sucks...but i would have rather waited for oscar response to it than being deleted off from you...no disrespect intended.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

waz said:


> It has now emerged that one of the men was reported by *his friend *to the authorities for his views and sharp decline into radicalism and nothing was done about it.
> 
> A friend of one of the suspected attackers says he had reported him to the anti-terror hotline, but no action was taken.
> 
> The man, who asked not to be named, told the BBC's Asian Network that the pair had spoken about previous attacks and he was shocked at what he had heard.
> 
> "We spoke about a particular attack that had happened and, like most radicals, he had a justification for anything, everything and anything," he said. "That day I realised that I need to contact the authorities."
> 
> But the friend claims the suspected attacker was not arrested and was allowed to keep his passport.
> 
> "I phoned the anti-terrorist hotline and spoke to the gentleman," he said. "I told him about our conversation and why I think he has been radicalised.
> 
> "I did my bit, but the authorities didn't do their bit."
> 
> The BBC has asked Scotland Yard for a response.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-40147014
> 
> 
> A shocking lapse in intelligence and follow ups. When the community reports someone it's obviously serious. The same happened with the Manchester attacker, and he was reported no less than five times.
> 
> @DesiGuy Oscar's post was a quite a while ago. I have also been clear I want such debate off this thread. Thanks.


 Bro. It's not that easy as ABC, Ok, let's say the authorities arrested him. What will they have done to him? Prosecute/imprison him for airing his views about justifying past terrorist attacks in Britain/Europe? If that's the case then I'm afraid there are even some muslim members on here who might also be in jail for trying to justify terrorist attacks as merely 'retribution/payback by muslims' etc. etc. lol 

I'm sorry, but I can't blame our authorities on this aspect. Since they can't start arresting and wasting tax payers money by prosecuting radical islamic individuals who hold certain radical views, since such cases will surely by dismissed by our courts, since they are not credible enough offences to imprison these radicals. Even if we did that, you can bet that our leftists and human rights activists will start condemning this and protesting about violation of their human rights etc etc. 
I'm sorry to say this but the only credible way to get them, is to simply keep tracking them until they are about to commit a terrorist act practically or maybe even when they have started carrying out the attack itself. Else, it's difficult to make a strong case against them in our courts by simply using the radical views,hate preaching they indulge in. 
That's the sad reality. So let's be more realistic about what can be done with our existing laws/rules and less emotional.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waz

mike2000 is back said:


> Bro. It's not that easy as ABC, Ok, let's say the authorities arrested him. What will they have done to him? Prosecute/imprison him for airing his views about justifying past terrorist attacks in Britain/Europe? If that's the case then I'm afraid there are even some muslim members on here who might also be in jail for trying to justify terrorist attacks as merely 'retribution/payback by muslims' etc. etc. lol
> 
> I'm sorry, but I can't blame our authorities on this aspect. Since they can't start arresting and wasting tax payers money by prosecuting radical islamic individuals who hold certain radical views, since such cases will surely by dismissed by our courts, since they are not credible enough offences to imprison these radicals. Even if we did that, you can bet that our leftists and human rights activists will start condemning this and protesting about violation of their human rights etc etc.
> I'm sorry to say this but the only credible way to get them, is to simply keep tracking them until they are about to commit a terrorist act practically or maybe even when they have started carrying out the attack itself. Else, it's difficult to make a strong case against them in our courts by simply using the radical views,hate preaching they indulge in.
> That's the sad reality. So let's be more realistic about what can be done with our existing laws/rules and less emotional.



Bro obviously you can't charge him until there is tangible evidence. But this man was not even questioned! He wasn't even followed, nor did he have his phone tapped. This can be blamed on the authorities, the buck stops with them. They are in charge of safety of the country. There's also a fine line between radical views and literally saying that such and such an attack should happen, that's a crime. As I understand his referral was on the basis that he advocated attacks on the country.
As for the lefties, they will always be there and can be ignored. It's high time to go back to a month without charging someone, stripping people of their citizenship and locking people away for public safety.


----------



## MultaniGuy

Who did the London Attacks?

What were their ethnicities?


----------



## TSA321

Iqbal Ali said:


> Who did the London Attacks?
> 
> What were their ethnicities?


At least 1 is of Pakistani origin according to some sources, the other two are still unknown


----------



## hydrabadi_arab

Vergennes said:


> @Sher Shah Awan @Kaptaan @mike2000 is back
> 
> Time for a crackdown on extremists and those preaching hate. You must not hesitate to close mosques that are deemed radicals and where what not activities are conducted. And of course deporting or jailing the hate preachers imams and the extremists that are brainwashing entire generations with their nauseabond ideologies and teachings.
> Britain is a country that prides itself with its freedom of speech and freedom of religion,but this tolerance has been abused so much times by those kind of people.
> 
> @Providence Hope you are allright.



Install cameras in mosques and monitor them 24/7. Also shut down small mosques so monitoring can become easier by concentrating in less mosques.


----------



## mike2000 is back

waz said:


> It's high time to go back to a month without charging someone, stripping people of their citizenship and locking people away for public safety


Any prime minister who will dare do that will be signing his own political suicide I'm afraid. British society is very different from others. Such laws/measures will set off alarm bells from some members of public/politicians alike and bring tremendous pressure on the government. So I don't think that's realistic for us.



waz said:


> Bro obviously you can't charge him until there is tangible evidence. But this man was not even questioned! He wasn't even followed, nor did he have his phone tapped. This can be blamed on the authorities, the buck stop with them. They are in charge of safety of the country


Yes bro, I know. However, i believe our authorities receive such calls countless times daily. They have to prioritise cases they deem crucial/critical using the data/information they have. It's impossible for them to follow each and every case/call. That will require a very significant amount of resources.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## waz

mike2000 is back said:


> Any prime minister who will dare do that will be signing his own political suicide I'm afraid. British society is very from others. Such laws/measures will set off alarm bells from some members of public/politicians alike and bring tremendous pressure on the government. So I don't think that's realistic for us.



It's sad but you are right. I just want to see what unfolds in the next 2 weeks with the election being over, and what she exactly means by "enough is enough".

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MultaniGuy

Who did the London attacks?


TSA321 said:


> At least 1 is of Pakistani origin according to some sources, the other two are still unknown


wow horrible if true.

What idiot that Pakistani is if he or she did it.

They should shoot that criminal dead.


----------



## Safriz

So all these incidents are happening just before elections and after the ruling party fails to make any impression?


----------



## American Pakistani

Britain has to copy Pakistan module and setup military courts, also lift the ban on death sentence. After creating an example out of few swines, rest will fall into place. Pakistan govt should help them with criminals who have Pakistani origin.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MultaniGuy

There is no evidence that a Pakistani was involved in the London terrorist attacks.


----------



## Vergennes

waz said:


> It's sad but you are right. I just want to see what unfolds in the next 2 weeks with the election being over, and what she exactly means by "enough is enough".



May might try to give the image to the British people that she is tough and is the only one able to deal successfully against terrorism. Even more after the polls aren't very favourable to the Tories since the last couple of days. I think that's only her strong point as Corbyn seems very suspicious on the matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Safriz

Vergennes said:


> May might try to give the image to the British people that she is tough and is the only one able to deal successfully against terrorism. Even more after the polls aren't very favourable to the Tories since the last couple of days. I think that's only her strong point as Corbyn seems very suspicious on the matter.


May didn't take part in any TV debating as she got nothing to offer. Now she will be glad to see election campaign suspended second time since he announced elections.


----------



## TSA321

Iqbal Ali said:


> They should shoot that criminal dead.


All 3 were shot dead within 7 minutes of the attack

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

TSA321 said:


> All 3 were shot dead within 7 minutes of the attack


Good.

However there is no proof that the criminals were of Pakistani origin/ethnicity.


----------



## mike2000 is back

hydrabadi_arab said:


> Install cameras in mosques and monitor them 24/7. Also shut down small mosques so monitoring can become easier by concentrating in less mosques.



All those things you mention might sound nice and all, but yet again there can't be adopted in our country anytime soon. That will be too controversial here. If you know/understand british society well, you will know why our leaders can't adopt such measures.

Moreover, people forget to talk about the things the government can do that won't violate our laws or bring controversy. i.e some Islamic schools and colleges who preach hate and twisted radical islamic ideology to their young muslim pupils. Our government has been trying to shut many of them down(those who refused to change or comply with government regulations even after being warned by the government) but they have succeeded in closing only a few so far. The main problem our government has been facing with closing them all down is yet again :OUR LEGAL SYSTEM/LAW , as always. Lol

This is even despite calls for some of these schools to be shut down by our Department of Education. These radical islamic schools have repeatedly launched legal appeals and the government has been powerless to stop them.

Reason Theresa May has been calling for an emergency legislation to shut these brainwashing terror breeding schools down. This legislation is still pending as far as I know.

It was said that young girls/pupils in these extremist islamic schools were reportedly taught that they can be beaten and raped by their husbands in order to “make Allah happy”.

One former pupil even said I QUOTE: “We were not taught geography, history or music and in art we just did knitting. We were banned from drawing anything with eyes. There was no sex education and we were taught that evolution was a belief of devil worshippers and atheists. Most of our day was spent doing Islamic studies".

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-who-blamed-girls-for-poverty-in-britain/amp/

http://www.islamicpluralism.org/2607/uk-education-authorities-struggling-to-crack-down
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...hut-Government-use-courts-defy-ministers.html

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....u-hamza-to-use-as-a-jihadi-training-camp/amp/

So we also need to look into this. Imagine the ideology these young muslim children grew up with and how it has shaped their views/way of life. Can't imagine how they now view the world when they grow up.
It's true we are a country ruled by law and tolerance. However, even me, I believe sometimes we take this "rule of law/tolerance/liberty" too far . Just my two cents.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Safriz

mike2000 is back said:


> All those things you mention might sound nice and all, but yet again there can't be adopted in our country anytime soon. That will be too controversial here. If you know/understand british society well, you will know why our leaders can't adopt such measures.
> 
> Moreover, people forget to talk about the things the government can do that won't violate our laws or bring controversy. i.e some Islamic schools who preach hate and twisted radical islamic ideology to their young muslim pupils. Our government has been trying to shut many of them down(those refused to change or comply with government regulations even after being warned by the government) but they have succeeded in closing only a very few so far. The main problem our government has been facing is yet again :OUR LEGAL SYSTEM/LAW , as always. Lol
> This is even despite calls for some of these schools to be shut down by the Department of Education. These radical islamic schools have repeatedly launched legal appeals and the government has been powerless to stop them.lol
> Reason Theresa May has been calling for emergency legislation to shut the schools down. This legislation is still pending as far as I know.
> It was said that young girls/pupils in these extremist islamic schools were reportedly taught that they can be beaten and raped by their husbands in order to “make Allah happy”.
> 
> One former pupil even said: “We were not taught geography, history or music and in art we just did knitting. We were banned from drawing anything with eyes. There was no sex education and we were taught that evolution was a belief of devil worshippers and atheists. Most of our day was spent doing Islamic studies".
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....-who-blamed-girls-for-poverty-in-britain/amp/
> 
> http://www.islamicpluralism.org/2607/uk-education-authorities-struggling-to-crack-down
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...hut-Government-use-courts-defy-ministers.html
> 
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....u-hamza-to-use-as-a-jihadi-training-camp/amp/
> 
> So we also need to look into this. Imagine the ideology these young muslim children grew up with and how it has shaped their views. Can't imagine how they now view the world when they grow up.
> It's true we are a country ruled by law and tolerance. However, even me, I believe sometimes we take this "rule of law/tolerance/liberty" too far IMO.


There is no such thing radical islamic schools. these are similar to what Church of England COE schools.
All Islamic kids are top performers in GCSE and A levels.
we British Muslims refuse to have our cultural and religious freedom taken away. Keep ur UKIP and Tori propaganda to yourself.


----------



## MultaniGuy

I have yet to see any large news outlet say that a Pakistani was involved in the London terrorist van attacks.

*UK's Rudd says London attackers probably 'radical Islamist terrorists'*



The attackers who killed seven people and wounded 48 in central London on Saturday were probably "radical Islamist terrorists", Britain's interior minister Amber Rudd said on Sunday.

"As the prime minister said, we are confident about the fact that they were radical Islamist terrorists, the way they were inspired, and we need to find out more about where this radicalisation came from," Rudd told ITV television.

Rudd declined to comment on whether the perpetrators of the attack had been known to authorities before Saturday.

"The operation is ongoing so we are finding out more about who these three are," he said.

Rudd also said it did not appear that there was a link between the London attackers and a suicide bombing in Manchester on May 22 that killed 22 people at a pop concert.

"We think it is unlikely. It looks like there wasn't, but we can't rule it out at the moment," she said.

Rudd said Britain's terror threat level, which currently stands at severe, had not been increased to its highest level of critical because authorities believed "that they have got all the main perpetrators".



(Reporting by William Schomberg and Elisabeth O'Leary; Editing by Catherine Evans)
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-security-rudd-idUSKBN18V0JC?il=0


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Rajkumar said:


> you would be very happy to send them to Kashmir with guns and ammunition telling them 'their sisters are raped in kashmir' ? right ? it is always good to be 'freedom fighter' then a terrorist ?


Yes. One mans freedom fighter another mans terrorist. My exasperation at them is if they must blow themselves up please take some for a wash in the Ganga.



Zibago said:


> A partial or full govt control over mosques is what i propose for Pakistan and rest of the world in many middle eastern countries all sermons are approved by the govt


Like Turkey. @KediKesenFare

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

I have yet to see any single news outlet say that a Pakistani was involved in the London terrorist attacks.


----------



## KAL-EL

Iqbal Ali said:


> I have yet to see any single news outlet say that a Pakistani was involved in the London terrorist attacks.



I have not either my friend. Perhaps news will be forthcoming soon?

A member here will post credible links.


----------



## TSA321

I have a link, though it is Daily Mail so best to be sceptical.

Another neighbour added: 'I often saw him playing table tennis with the guys in the lobby. You could tell from his accent he was either born here or grew up here but he told me he was from Pakistan.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-east-London-bridge-attack.html#ixzz4j4hfGt00
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


----------



## MultaniGuy

Thats not good enough.

I'm waiting for the newspapers to say that it was a Pakistani origin person who participated in the London terrorist attacks.

Such douchebags the damned terrorists are. Killing innocent people.

The terrorists will go to hell.


----------



## Mo12

UK media just says he is muslim and public automatically think of Saudis, Paks, Irans and Iraqies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

Mo12 said:


> UK media just says he is muslim and public automatically think of Saudis, Paks, Irans and Iraqies.


I have yet to see if there is any evidence that any of the terrorists were of Pakistani origin.

Damn these terrorists. Useless human garbage they are!


----------



## TMA

Iqbal Ali said:


> I have yet to see if there is any evidence that any of the terrorists were of Pakistani origin.
> 
> Damn these terrorists. Useless human garbage they are!


When the Public think of terrorist they think of Muslim and when they think Muslim they think Pakistani or Middle eastern. The average man on the street cannot tell the difference and neither does he care.



waz said:


> It's sad but you are right. I just want to see what unfolds in the next 2 weeks with the election being over, and what she exactly means by "enough is enough".


Ultimately enough is enough means anyone who holds the Quran to be the word of God and the Son of Abdullah of Mecca (PBUH) to be the Messenger of God needs to undergo "deradicalization".
A dialectical process is happening with these attacks with aim of bringing about a Clash.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## waz

Dear posters at 15.00 onwards of this video you can see the ring leader of the now dead terrorists. He is the tall, thin man with a brown Arabic dress on, with a light green headress. He was in the park with his group when channel 4 filmed the documentary.


----------



## MultaniGuy

What idiots. @waz, i saw your video. What a bunch of crazy losers.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

Lol i saw the video what crazy bas tards.


----------



## kasper95

waz said:


> Dear posters at 15.00 onwards of this video you can see the ring leader of the now dead terrorists. He is the tall, thin man with a brown Arabic dress on, with a light green headress. He was in the park with his group when channel 4 filmed the documentary.


I can't believe UK allows such people on the streets .they are threat to the society where ever they live.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

kasper95 said:


> I can't believe UK allows such people on the streets .they are threat to the society where ever they live.


They are idiots


----------



## Saho

Iqbal Ali said:


> Thats not good enough.
> 
> I'm waiting for the newspapers to say that it was a Pakistani origin person who participated in the London terrorist attacks.
> 
> Such douchebags the damned terrorists are. Killing innocent people.
> 
> The terrorists will go to hell.


It doesn't really matter which ethnicity he comes from. To them, a Muslim is a Muslim and ethnicity is not a concern to them.

It':gonna fuel more Islamophobia in the UK.


----------



## KediKesenFare3

Kaptaan said:


> Yes. One mans freedom fighter another mans terrorist. My exasperation at them is if they must blow themselves up please take some for a wash in the Ganga.
> 
> Like Turkey. @KediKesenFare


@Zibago could be interested in this thread: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/shou...sh-state-system-for-religious-affairs.451871/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## jhungary

waz said:


> Bro obviously you can't charge him until there is tangible evidence. But this man was not even questioned! He wasn't even followed, nor did he have his phone tapped. This can be blamed on the authorities, the buck stops with them. They are in charge of safety of the country. There's also a fine line between radical views and literally saying that such and such an attack should happen, that's a crime. As I understand his referral was on the basis that he advocated attacks on the country.
> As for the lefties, they will always be there and can be ignored. It's high time to go back to a month without charging someone, stripping people of their citizenship and locking people away for public safety.





mike2000 is back said:


> Bro. It's not that easy as ABC, Ok, let's say the authorities arrested him. What will they have done to him? Prosecute/imprison him for airing his views about justifying past terrorist attacks in Britain/Europe? If that's the case then I'm afraid there are even some muslim members on here who might also be in jail for trying to justify terrorist attacks as merely 'retribution/payback by muslims' etc. etc. lol
> 
> I'm sorry, but I can't blame our authorities on this aspect. Since they can't start arresting and wasting tax payers money by prosecuting radical islamic individuals who hold certain radical views, since such cases will surely by dismissed by our courts, since they are not credible enough offences to imprison these radicals. Even if we did that, you can bet that our leftists and human rights activists will start condemning this and protesting about violation of their human rights etc etc.
> I'm sorry to say this but the only credible way to get them, is to simply keep tracking them until they are about to commit a terrorist act practically or maybe even when they have started carrying out the attack itself. Else, it's difficult to make a strong case against them in our courts by simply using the radical views,hate preaching they indulge in.
> That's the sad reality. So let's be more realistic about what can be done with our existing laws/rules and less emotional.



Maybe I can give you two my insight with the topic, me coming from a investigative (Counter Intelligence) background and my wife's law background. In fact, we have just the same discussion out of the blue a few days ago after the Manchester Bombing.

In an investigative point of view, the investigation would have been easy if we can focus on the overseas connection, but for the domestic connection, things will get a bit trickier.

The problem is that the British Law (or Common Law) does not allow phone tap or wire tap or any sort of personal surveillance unless you can obtain a court order, being in the EU, the personal liberty is tad bit more highly regraded than in the US, where they can do that with a probable clause, the UK won't allow such activities unless that are tangible evidence pointing someone's illegal activities.

And unfortunately, some one call in a hotline pointing to someone's extremist view is not exactly tangible proof that they can obtain a court order, more like an accusation and a hearsay.

Normally investigation started with a previous attack, then try to link the connection between the actual player with the possible support circle and then link the possible connection. Back up with paper trail and actual account. Only then, a person can be monitored and their world raided.

The problem with this is, if a person does not seemingly connected to something illegal (In our field, we called them CLEANSKIN, which have no criminal record and is apparently clean) Cleanskin was perfect to be used in an attack because it raise no flag and the terrorist know it, which mean we will need to have concrete evidence to be able to pull them out. Which both take time and resource and most of the time, we don't even know who they are and we are just simply rounding the diamond head and going round and round and round.

In the point of law. The common law "innocent before proven guilty" is being heavily at played by the terrorist, which mean they can enjoy their maximum benefit, and unless someone slip up and did something wrong, their operation is basically, protected by law, well, up to the point they start murdering people. And at any point before that, unless there are physical evidence, not circumstantial evidence, we cannot investigate them, and without an investigation, there are no way one can even arrest people without a due clause. That is the problem we face today.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## EyelessInGaza

Kaptaan said:


> Yes. One mans freedom fighter another mans terrorist.* My exasperation at them is if they must blow themselves up please take some for a wash in the Ganga.*.......................



And this right here is the reason that terrorism is now so deeply identified with Islam. This poster, who claims to be a UK citizen ostensibly defending democracy, is openly seeking the death of other people while he claims to condemn terrorism.

And this is a 'modern Muslim'. Is there any wonder the radicals Islamists are so bad?

Some mod could take a look at this. @waz.


----------



## mike2000 is back

waz said:


> Dear posters at 15.00 onwards of this video you can see the ring leader of the now dead terrorists. He is the tall, thin man with a brown Arabic dress on, with a light green headress. He was in the park with his group when channel 4 filmed the documentary.


Yes I watched this documentary on channel 4 with my wife last year. This documentary also shows the issue I was talking about earlier, I.e it's very difficult for our authorities to arrest and prosecute these guys or give them jail sentence when they haven't committed a terror attack as of yet. So it's quite difficult to apprehend them before that giving our legal system/laws relating to freedom of expression/religion etc etc. So unfortunately, we can only watch as they radicalise more and more people while hoping they make a mistake in committing a serious offence that can be used against then in court. Else it's almost impossible to arrest and prosecute them. 
We are not a middle eastern dictatorship where such suspects and individuals can be arrested and tortured(or even killed) by the state into confession indefinitely with nobody asking any questions etc. That's also the difference between a liberal democracy with freedom and a dictatorship/theocracy etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Offshore

mike2000 is back said:


> Yes I watched this documentary on channel 4 with my wife last year. This documentary also shows the issue I was talking about earlier, I.e it's very difficult for our authorities to arrest and prosecute these guys or give them jail sentence when they haven't committed a terror attack as of yet. So it's quite difficult to apprehend them before that giving our legal system/laws relating to freedom of expression/religion etc etc. So unfortunately, we can only watch as they radicalise more and more people while hoping they make a mistake in committing a serious offence that can be used against then in court. Else it's almost impossible to arrest and prosecute them.
> We are not a middle eastern dictatorship where such suspects and individuals can be arrested and tortured(or even killed) by the state into confession indefinitely with nobody asking any questions etc. That's also the difference between a liberal democracy with freedom and a dictatorship/theocracy etc.



Can British change the law or add another laws?
I mean, how stupid is that watching your youth poisoned by these radical people?

What have your goverment do so far to change the laws?

Obviously this attack not going to be the last.


----------



## Rajkumar

Kaptaan said:


> Yes. One mans freedom fighter another mans terrorist. My exasperation at them is if they must blow themselves up please take some for a wash in the Ganga.
> 
> Like Turkey. @KediKesenFare



hmm they seem not to care about their sisters of kashmir but you do. Why dont you come to save your sisters ? or typing behind keyboard is good enough for you ?


----------



## mike2000 is back

شاھین میزایل said:


> There is no such thing radical islamic schools. these are similar to what Church of England COE schools.
> All Islamic kids are top performers in GCSE and A levels.
> we British Muslims refuse to have our cultural and religious freedom taken away. Keep ur UKIP and Tori propaganda to yourself.


Who has taken your religious freedoms away? You have more freedom here than you could ever have even in your home country. 
So according to you, our government closing down some of these schools who preach radical ideology that doesn't conform with British values is all a ploy against muslims?lol
Do you even know that the most vocal critics of these radical schools/colleges is those moderate muslims themselves who have been pressuring and urging the government to crack down on these radical schools who preached a twisted version of Islam to their pupils? So I guess you will say these muslims have been brainwashed by the West/Tori government. Lol

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Nefarious

mike2000 is back said:


> Who has taken your religious freedoms away? You have more freedom here than you could ever have even in your home country.
> So according to you, our government closing down some of these schools who preach radical ideology that doesn't conform with British values is all a ploy against muslims?lol
> Do you even know that the most vocal critics of these radical schools/colleges is those moderate muslims themselves who have been pressuring and urging the government to crack down on these radical schools who preached a twisted version of Islam to their pupils? So I guess you will say these muslims have been brainwashed by the West/Tori government. Lol



So what's the plan of action... These guys are on and off the radar and then all of a sudden we see the news.

Can they change the law, anyone preaching hate can be deported?


----------



## CBU-105

Killuminati420 said:


> So what's the plan of action... These guys are on and off the radar and then all of a sudden we see the news.
> 
> Can they change the law, anyone preaching hate can be deported?


how do you define 'hate' ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## TMA

CBU-105 said:


> how do you define 'hate' ?


Apart from those who call for killing civilians in the street it must include those who denounce NATO 's support of khawarij terrorists abroad, and her barbaric invasions. Not to mention anyone who investigates the disproportionate role of Zionists in the War on Terror or their influence on world finance is also hate preacher.
It may even end up including those who investigate historical events and come to different conclusions than what the Establishment portray.

Oh I forgot to add anyone who accepts that the Quran is the actual word of the Lord God and the Son of Abdullah of Mecca (PBUH) is his messenger is a potential hate preacher.


----------



## MultaniGuy

Mufflerman said:


> Killing kufr means he will go to jannat and get his 72. I will report your post for blasphemy if you don't stop spreading misinformation.
> 
> 
> Idiots? You are being really harsh with your judgement. They only murdered 7 after all. Cal them ignorant if you want but idiots is a bit harsh I think.


Listen Indian rat, maybe the mods forget to delete your post.
Killing innocent people is strictly prohibited in Islam. I'm not doing any blasphemy.

I'm stating facts according to Islam.

Shut up Indian dirt rat.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## waz

Two of the filth identified.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40165646

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

waz said:


> Two of the filth identified.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40165646


Wow horrible.

Good the terrorists were shot by the police.


----------



## Safriz

EastAsian said:


> Muslims in Europe will forever have valid excuses to kill white Christians. In fact, the prerogative to revenge against Christian works this way.
> 
> The Jews, Al Saud (and GCC traitors) and Christian elites send in soldiers as well as 007 to destroy the more secular Muslims causing immense death.
> 
> Then Saudi funded clerics preach how much shyt Muslims are getting. (In reality, states like Syria and Iraq. destroyed by Jews and gangs are big enemies of Islamofascist)
> 
> Next the stupid Sunni suicide-bombers blow themselves up, tagging along tenths or hundreds of innocent victims.


Yeah right. And you will always have excuses to utter rubbish against us and express your hate. 
We Muslims don't need your approval to practice our religion, we love our faith and intend to continue practicing it. You have always hated us and that's normal.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sabaton Band

One of the attacker is a British citizen of Pakistani descent:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871780771605999620


----------



## MultaniGuy

The terrorists will go to hell for killing innocent people.


----------



## Sabaton Band

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871774672358064128

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871781609111830528


----------



## waz

Sabaton Band said:


> One of the attacker is a Pakistani:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871780771605999620



Yes that was something known quite a while back.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

Sabaton Band said:


> One of the attacker is a Pakistani:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871780771605999620



Wow horrible.

The terrorist of Pakistani ethnicity will go to hell for killing innocent people.

So will the terrorist of Arab ethnicity go to hell for killing innocent people.


----------



## waz

Sabaton Band said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871774672358064128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871781609111830528



He wasn't Kashmiri. Also what has that got to do with this? He was as much anti Pakistani as he was anti Indian. Stop positing stupid twitter feeds on here.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## MultaniGuy

Good the terrorists were shot dead by the British police.


----------



## MultaniGuy

Pakistani Fan said:


> It is so shameful that a Pakistani was involved in all this.


Agreed with you.


----------



## waz

mike2000 is back said:


> Yes I watched this documentary on channel 4 with my wife last year. This documentary also shows the issue I was talking about earlier, I.e it's very difficult for our authorities to arrest and prosecute these guys or give them jail sentence when they haven't committed a terror attack as of yet. So it's quite difficult to apprehend them before that giving our legal system/laws relating to freedom of expression/religion etc etc. So unfortunately, we can only watch as they radicalise more and more people while hoping they make a mistake in committing a serious offence that can be used against then in court. Else it's almost impossible to arrest and prosecute them.
> We are not a middle eastern dictatorship where such suspects and individuals can be arrested and tortured(or even killed) by the state into confession indefinitely with nobody asking any questions etc. That's also the difference between a liberal democracy with freedom and a dictatorship/theocracy etc.



I'm sorry bro but this was a horrible intelligence failure. He was taken in for questioning then "downgraded". It's not just me saying this but practically every expert out there, it's all over the media. You couldn't get a more stereotypical, crazed fanatic and yet he was allowed to carry on. Yes we are not a dictatorship but we do have special powers that can be granted, how do you think the war was won against the IRA in the 70's and 80's? The government would expel people from Britain and hold people without trial for days. It's time to go back to that.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## MultaniGuy

These terrorists are such scumbag losers. They are pure idiots.

Hopefully they will go to hell.


----------



## waz

Pakistani Fan said:


> It is so shameful that a Pakistani was involved in all this.



Yep, born in Pakistan and raised here partly. He always spoke with a stupid accent. Anyway, he's no different from the attackers who kill innocent people in Pakistan. Also do remember the group he belonged to calls Pakistan a kaffir country, labels its founder a kaffir, calls for attacks on the Pakistani army and wants the destruction of the state for a merger with India, and all of which will be under islamic rule. He looks like and dresses like a desert nomad, rather than a traditional Pakistani. Just how much of him was Pakistani? Aside from his genetics precious little. They actually used to get into fights with Pakistanis on Pakistan independence day, when they would throw leaflets at people and call Pakistanis celebrating "nationalistic scum". They have no concept of nationhood. 
But then he is part of a problem Pakistanis had with radicalisation and something I have fought hard at eliminating. But we can only get at those who are confused, or in the midst of being introduced to people like him. Die hard filth like him can never be helped.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## StraightShooter

*London Bridge attacker named as Khuram Butt*
Sources say the terrorist, a son of Pakistani immigrants and keen Arsenal fan, had been excluded from mosques in east London


London attacks – live updates




Current Time0:00
/
Duration Time0:25
Loaded: 0%

Progress: 0%
Mute

Khuram Butt featured in a Channel 4 documentary
*Shares*
520

Robert Booth, Ian Cobain, Vikram Dodd, Matthew Taylor and Lisa O'Carroll

Monday 5 June 2017 13.09 EDTLast modified on Monday 5 June 2017 13.17 EDT

Khuram Butt, one of the three jihadi attackers who killed seven people in London on Saturday, was a supporter of the banned Islamist group al-Muhajiroun who only last month was spotted urging people in east London not to participate in the general election.

The 27-year old was described by locals in his neighbourhood of Barking, east London, as the son of parents from Jhelum, a town in Pakistan’s Punjab province, but he is believed to have been brought up in Britain, become a keen supporter of Arsenal football club, whose shirt he wore during the attack, and spoke with a London accent. It is not clear if he was born in the UK or abroad.

Butt went by the name Abu Zaitun and was known widely as Abs by friends at the gymnasium where he trained in weightlifting and at the two mosques where he worshipped. He had two young children, a son aged around three and a recently born baby, with a woman described locally as his wife. He reportedly had jobs on the London transport network and in a fast food restaurant and lived a couple of miles from his mother in Plaistow.

But in recent years his fundamentalist approach to religion repeatedly caused concern among people who knew him. He associated with al-Muhajiroun the banned extremist group whose leader Anjem Choudary has been linked to the recruitment of more than 100 British terrorism suspects.




FacebookTwitterPinterest
Khuram Butt in The Jihadis Next Door. Photograph: Channel 4
Community sources in east London active in working against al-Muhajiroun and the groups that succeeded it, said Butt was excluded from the East London mosque over concerns about his activities. One source at the mosque, on Whitechapel Road, said that after the 2017 general election was called he was seen handing out flyers telling Muslims they should not vote or participate in the democratic process. In 2015 he was asked not to enter the mosque having tried to urge worshippers inside the building not to vote.

He was also forcibly ejected from a Barking mosque, Jabir bin Zayd, after he repeatedly interrupted the imam shouting “only God is in charge” and refusing to stop. It is believed he was also urging people not to vote at that mosque ahead of the 2015 poll.

Butt also featured in a Channel 4 documentary about British jihadis broadcast last year, which showed he was involved in an altercation with police after a black flag was unfurled in Regent’s Park in London. The programme also featured Siddhartha Dhar, who changed his named to Abu Rumaysah after converting to Islam and later travelled to Syria to join Islamic State. Dhar, 33, fled Britain in 2014 after being arrested on suspicion of encouraging terrorism and being a member of al-Muhajiroun.

Dhar is suspected of becoming a masked public “executioner” for Isis in Syria, being filmed presiding over a number of murders following the death of fellow Briton Mohammed Emwazi, the man dubbed Jihadi John.

Also in the group filmed by Channel 4 was extremist preacher Abu Haleema. Abu Haleema had contact with a teenage jihadi who wanted to carry out a beheading on Anzac Day in Australia. Butt also appeared alongside Dhar in footage at a demonstration outside Paddington police station during which Choudary’s acolytes clashed with the far right group Britain First.

To some neighbours in Barking, such as Ken Chigbo, 26, Butt seemed “a sociable, friendly guy”. Butt had invited Chigbo to a barbecue recently. It was “friendly, there was a good vibe”, Chigbo recalled. He also said he occasionally played football or table tennis with Butt outside the flats.

Another neighbour, Regina Khan, said Butt spent a lot of time with boys and teenagers in the area. “He was always hanging out with the kids and teenagers – just the boys, never the girls – talking with them and playing football. That always worries me a bit to be honest.”

Khan was not invited to the barbecue and said it was a “no woman” affair. “He invited the boys and teenagers and a few of the men but not the women,” she said.

But another neighbour who who lived in the same Elizabeth Fry apartments building in Barking as Butt, reported him him to the police in 2015 after she feared he was trying to radicalise children in a local park.

Erica Gasparri, a mother of three who lives in the same complex, said she went to the park to confront him after her son he came home and said: “Mummy, I want to be a Muslim.”

She rushed to the park and said that he was there with two people she had not seen before in the tight-knit community. She described the other two as a Pakistani man and a black man.

“He said, ‘I’m ready to do whatever I need to do in the name of Allah. I am ready in the name of Allah what needs to be done including killing my own mother,’” Gasparri said. “I don’t know how fast I from the park to Barking police. I took four photographs of him and gave them to the police. They rang Scotland Yard when I was there and said the information had been passed on to Scotland Yard. They were very concerned.

“They told me to delete the photos for my own safety which I did but then I heard nothing. That was two years ago. No one came to me. If they did, this could have been prevented and lives could have been saved,” she said. 

A friend of the attacker told the BBC’s Asian Network on Sunday that he also raised the alarm because Butt used to watch clips of the American hate preacher Ahmad Musa Jibril.

“I phoned the anti-terror hotline,” the unnamed man said. “I spoke to the gentleman. I told him about our conversation and why I think he was radicalised.”

Butt did not like to socialise with women and his wife normally wore a full-face veil, neighbours said.

They also reported an increase in comings and goings of men in traditional religious robes and headgear at Butt’s home in recent months.

A neighbour of one of the suspected attackers said he saw the rental van used in the attack outside the Elizabeth Fry block on Friday – and again on Saturday afternoon.

“I saw him with the van on Friday,” said Michael Mimbo, 25, who lived in a neighbouring block to the attacker’s flat and had known him for three years. “He had parked it right outside the flats and it was blocking the road. Cars couldn’t get past and there was a bit of aggro.”

Mimbo said several neighbours had seen it being driven at speed the wrong way up a one-way street outside the flats on Saturday afternoon.

“There are lots of kids play round here so people were pretty cross,” he said.

It was a change of behaviour from Butt, a man who had previously seemed calm.

“On FA Cup final day we were both excited and talking about it,” said Mimbo. “I remember I said I wanted Wenger out and he said he wanted him to remain. And he was joyous when Arsenal won ... he was a calm and kind guy. It’s unbelievable what’s happened.”

What Butt did next is now the subject of a major counter-terrorism investigation.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...e-london-bridge-attacks-unfolded-video-report

*Khuram Butt: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know*
Published 1:14 pm EDT, June 5, 2017 Updated 1:32 pm EDT, June 5, 2017 Comment By Jessica McBride 

Share1 Tweet Share Email Follow







A screenshot from the Channel 4 documentary by Jamie Roberts.



Khuram Butt, identified as one of the gang of terrorists who staged coordinated attacks at London Bridge and Borough Market, appeared in a documentary on British Jihadis that showed him praying with an Islamic flag in a park.

The 27-year-old terrorist known as “Abz,” who was photographed lying dead in the street while wearing hoax explosives, is the son of Pakistani asylum seekers and was allegedly associated with notorious YouTube and street preachers. The terrorist was reported to police two years ago for trying to brainwash local children to become Muslims in an English park.

View image on Twitter





Follow

Metropolitan Police 

✔@metpoliceuk
Updates: Two men shot dead by police following terrorist attack in #LondonBridge #BoroughMarket named http://ow.ly/wEp130ckBTo 

1:08 PM - 5 Jun 2017

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=871775863280422912


1,0261,026 Retweets


486486 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy




The three terrorists – who were shot dead by police – staged both a vehicle and a knife attack in the latest horror to hit England. The terrorists shouted, “This is for Allah” as they randomly slashed people’s faces and throats, according to Fox News.

They rammed a van into people walking on the landmark London Bridge and then randomly stabbed and slashed at people in a nearby cafe in Borough Market. The London Ambulance Service told the Guardian that at least 48 people were transported to six hospitals across London, and more people were treated at the scene for less serious injuries. At least seven people were reportedly killed in the twin attacks. Twenty-one people remained in critical condition the day after the attacks.

The Metropolitan police declared the assaults a terrorist attack, tweeting, “At 0025hrs 4/6/17 the incidents at #LondonBridge & #BoroughMarket were declared as terrorist incidents.” Prime Minister Theresa May expressed concern that the attack was a copycat of other terrorist incidents, and vowed, “Enough is enough.”

UK Express obtained exclusive video of the terrorists calmly walking through the market before they knifed people. However, it was not the first time this suspect ended up on video.

Here’s what you need to know:

*1. Khuram Butt Was Featured in a Documentary That Showed Him in a Confrontation With Police After Praying Before an Islamic Flag in a Park*

The documentary on British Jihadis aired on Channel 4 in Britain and was filmed by a man named Jamie Roberts. He spent years following some of the most notorious Islamic street preachers in England.

One London Bridge terrorists, Khuram Butt, makes a brief appearance in the documentary, which focuses on three preachers who are well known to police and in England. In the scene in which the terrorist is featured, a man named Mohammed Shamsuddin is leading the group.

The men display a black Islamic flag, which is similar to one used by ISIS, and bow down before it in the English park. At the end of the prayer session, a police officer confronts the group, and they are briefly detained. The officer says a member of the public had contacted authorities because the men were spotted with something resembling an ISIS flag in the park. A verbal debate ensues.

According to UK Daily Mail, the 27-year-old London Bridge terrorist was a “Muslim extremist” who “appeared in a TV documentary last year about British jihadis” and who was “involved in a filmed altercation with police after an Islamic State flag was unfurled in a park.”

Daily Mail added, “He was caught on camera alongside two notorious preachers who were well known to police and intelligence officials because of their extremist views… a friend of the Watford-born suspect had reported him to the anti-terror hotline after he became radicalised by watching extremist videos on YouTube.”

According to a 2016 Guardian article on the documentary, Shamsuddin has ties to some of the most notorious Islamic preachers in Great Britain, a topic the documentary discusses. “The Jihadis Next Door also focuses on an extremist preacher called Abu Haleema and his friend Mohammed Shamsuddin. Haleema has links to a teen jihadi who wanted to carry out a beheading on Anzac Day in Australia, while Shamsuddin was an associate of Islamic cleric Anjem Choudary and joined a radical group after meeting hate preacher Omar Bakri, also known at the Tottenham Ayatollah,” reports the Guardian.

The documentary opens with an associate of Shamsuddin, the notorious Siddhartha Dhar, also known as Abu Rumaysah, a former bouncy castle salesman from London and Muslim convert who is believed to have fled to Syria and was accused of being the “new Jihadi John” who appeared in a gruesome ISIS video.





The men pray before an Islamic flag in this screenshot from Jamie Roberts’ documentary.

The degree to which Butt was tied to or influenced by these men is not known, but the documentary does show him praying with the group in the park. There is no indication that any of the men listed above had anything to do with the London Bridge attacks, however.

In the documentary, the street preachers made it very clear what their goal is: They speak openly about desiring sharia law in Great Britain, and two of them express confidence that the Islamic flag will one day fly over 10 Downing Street, the address of the British prime minister.





A scene from the Roberts documentary.

“This is a war against Islam and Muslims, the struggle must continue… one day the black flag of Islam will be over 10 downing street, Allahu Akbar,” Shamsuddin says in one scene. One of the preachers also talks about what life would be like under sharia law in England: Women would have to be fully covered, adulterers would be stoned in open public parks, homosexuality would be severely punished, and gambling and alcohol would be banned.

The preachers and their followers repeatedly take to street corners in England to preach their version of Islam. One interesting aspect of the documentary is that the men are repeatedly confronted by other Muslims, who yell at them, and accuse them of giving Islam a bad name. “This is ISIS, ISIS, this is what you see on television,” says one agitated opponent on the street. “You’re talking rubbish,” says another.

You can watch the documentary above via YouTube.

In contrast to the intense scenes shown in the documentary, neighbors of the man described him in tranquil terms. UK Daily Mail reported that the London Bridge terrorist discussed by neighbors is the same man in the documentary.

One neighbor described the man as “affable” and expressed shock at hearing that the man, who was a fixture in the neighborhood with young children, could be involved in the attacks, according to Sky News.

“Yes, he has a family. He’s got family. He’s always been pleasant to our family…I don’t understand how it could be him,” the neighbor said, adding that the man had helped with community groups on homelessness and worked at a gym. “He’s lived here for years.” Other neighbors described the terrorist as someone who frequently changed his appearance, liked to play table tennis, and held doors open for elderly people.

Butt was from Barking.

Police made 12 arrests at a Barking flat, but they haven’t yet said how they believe those people were linked to the attacks. The apartment building is where one of the three terrorists lived, according to news reports.

Another man said the suspects asked him about his moving van recently.

The coordinated attacks started when a van sped into pedestrians on London Bridge, reported NBC News. The incident unfolded at about 10:08 p.m. on June 3, as Londoners were enjoying a Saturday evening near London Bridge.

The van was traveling abut 50 miles per hour when it rammed into people, according to BBC.

View image on Twitter





Follow

London Ambulance 

✔@Ldn_Ambulance
Our latest statement on the #LondonBridge incident. We have taken 30 patients to five hospitals across London http://bit.ly/2rRq9aC 

10:58 PM - 3 Jun 2017

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=871199429516197893


493493 Retweets


424424 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy




BBC reporter Holly Jones, who witnessed the attack on the bridge, told the network of the van’s driver, “He swerved right round me and then hit about five or six people. He hit about two people in front of me and then three behind.”

Police said three terrorists were killed in the attacks. Metropolitan police released a statement that described the attacks unfolding this way:

“At 22:08hrs yesterday evening we began to receive reports that a vehicle had struck pedestrians on London Bridge. The vehicle continued to drive from London Bridge to Borough Market. The suspects then left the vehicle and a number of people were stabbed, including an on-duty British Transport Police officer who was responding to the incident at London Bridge. He received serious but not life-threatening injuries. His family has been informed.”

*2. Butt Was Kicked Out of a Mosque & the Terrorists Referred to Themselves as Sheiks*




Police officers and members of the emergency services attend to a person injured in an apparent terror attack on London Bridge in central London on June 3, 2017. (Getty)

Khuram Butt was thrown out of his mosque “after he interrupted a sermon to say that voting in the general election was ‘un-Islamic,'” accoridng to The Independent.

The manager of the mosque told The Independent, “He got very angry. I called him aside and said, please calm down. He refused, so I removed him. Thank God he followed me. When we got outside the room, he said you don’t have any authority over me, only God has authority because this is a house of God. I said that might be true, but I am in charge.”

Neighbors said the men called themselves sheiks and “spiritual Muslims,” with one being seen in long robes, The Independent reported.

In the London Bridge attacks, armed police rushed to the scene, and gunshots broke out. “I hear maybe six to eight gunshots and screams unlike I’ve ever heard before. People running — I’ve never ran so fast in my life,” Joe Dillon, an American student at Kings College, told MSNBC. “I ran and I hid.”





Debris is strewn outside a cafe near London Bridge on June 4, 2017 in London, England. Police responded to what they are calling terrorist attacks on London Bridge and Borough Market where at least 20 people were injured and one person was killed. (Getty)

One witness described the ensuing pandemonium to The Guardian, saying, “I was in the back of the pub. A wave of about 30 people ran in and tried to get into the cellar or cupboard. Then there were shots outside. They didn’t seem real – like a kid letting off firecrackers. We saw police lights and everyone got down under a table. People turned tables over.”

Other witnesses described throwing bottles and other objects at the terrorists to try to stop them.

BBC reported that about four people were stabbed by three attackers. Police continued, “Armed officers responded very quickly and bravely, confronting three male suspects who were shot and killed in Borough Market. The suspects had been confronted and shot by the police within eight minutes of the first call. The suspects were wearing what looked like explosive vests but these were later established to be hoaxes.”

*3. He Worked in a KFC & Was the Son of Pakistani Asylum Seekers*




Police officers clear the area near Borough market at London Bridge on June 3, 2017 in London, England. Police have responded to reports of a van hitting pedestrians on London Bridge in central London. (Getty)

According to the UK Telegraph, the 27-year-old suspect, Khuram Butt, had a wife through an arranged marriage and two children.

“The attacker’s parents were reported to be asylum seekers from Pakistan. His father is said to also live in east London, but his mother is dead. The attacker had worked at a branch of the fast food chain KFC before leaving two years ago for a job on the London Underground,” reported the Telegraph.

The Daily Mail also reported that the terrorist worked for Transport for London, which “is responsible for the Tube and buses.”

The Telegraph reported that the man “had been radicalised while watching YouTube videos of the infamous American hate preacher Ahmad Musa Jibril,” and two people who knew him also contacted police to report his extremist views.

According to BBC, Harun Khan, Secretary General of the Muslim Council of Britain, released a statement that said, in part: “I am appalled and angered by the terrorist attacks at London Bridge and Borough Market, in my home city. These acts of violence were truly shocking and I condemn them in the strongest terms. Muslims everywhere are outraged and disgusted at these cowards who once again have destroyed the lives of our fellow Britons.”

*4. He Was Accused Two Years Ago of Trying to Brainwash Children to Become Muslim in a Park*
View image on Twitter





Follow

Harry Yorke 

✔@HarryYorke1
BBC have just released images of someone believed to be an attacker on the ground with canisters around waist #londonbridge

8:42 PM - 3 Jun 2017

https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=871165211922837504


168168 Retweets


8181 likes
Twitter Ads info and privacy




One woman told the Telegraph that the Butt was brainwashing children in a local park two years ago, and one of her children came home and said, “Mummy I want to become a Muslim.”

According to the Guardian, the woman confronted the man in the park, and he said, “I’m ready to do whatever I need to do in the name of Allah. I am ready in the name of Allah to do what needs to be done, including killing my own mother.” She told police and gave them photographs, but nothing happened. The incident occurred two years before the terrorist attack, the Guardian reported.

Photos and videos emerged showing the chaos at the London Bridge and Borough Market scene, including people walking down the street with their hands in the air, and police bursting into taverns to tell people to get out.

One man snapped a photo of a dead terrorist lying on the ground with canisters around his chest that police said were hoax explosives. The Daily Mail interviewed a man who said this was the same London Bridge terrorist as the one in the documentary because the neighbor recognized the Arsenal shirt he was wearing earlier in the day.

Butt seemed “euphoric” and asked the man about the van he was using to move, reported Daily Mail.

London’s mayor condemned the attacks, saying, according to BBC: “We don’t yet know the full details, but this was a deliberate and cowardly attack on innocent Londoners and visitors to our city enjoying their Saturday night. I condemn it in the strongest possible terms.”

According to the Mirror, the knife-wielding terrorists slashed people’s faces and throats, witnesses said.

*5. He Wouldn’t Interact With Women & Was Planning to go to Syria*
MANCHESTER, ENGLAND – MAY 24: Thirteen year old Iqra Saied, who attended the Ariana Grande concert
looks at floral tributes and messages as the working day begins on May 24, 2017 in Manchester, England. An explosion occurred at Manchester Arena on the evening of May 22 as concert goers were leaving the venue after Ariana Grande had performed. Greater Manchester Police are treating the explosion as a terrorist attack and have confirmed 22 fatalities and 59 injured. (Photo by Jeff J Mitchell/Getty Images)

" data-medium-file="https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ages-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=300" data-large-file="https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ages-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780" class="size-large wp-image-1478779" src="https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...0780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780&strip=all" alt="Manchester Benefit Concert" width="780" height="520" srcset="https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ages-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780 780w, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ges-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=1560 1560w, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ages-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=150 150w, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ages-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=300 300w, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ages-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=768 768w, https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpr...ges-687580780.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=1024 1024w" sizes="(max-width: 780px) 100vw, 780px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
Flowers to mourn the Manchester bombing victims. (Getty)

Butt’s neighbor told the Daily Mail the man “didn’t interact with women in the area because of his views. He would happily talk to men but would ignore females. I only ever saw his wife if he was with her and she wore the full veil – I don’t think I ever saw her eyes.”

A relative of the terrorist’s wife told the Daily Mail, “In 2015, I heard that he tried to go to Syria saying he was going for jihad. But the family rallied around and as his wife was pregnant they managed to stop him.”

The 2005 London bombing killed 52 people. However, the London Bridge attack is the third since March 2017. First, a terrorist, Khalid Masood, drove into a crowd of pedestrians on Westminster Bridge and tried to storm UK Parliament.

Then, Salman Abedi blew himself up in a crowd of people leaving an Ariana Grande concert in Manchester, England. ISIS has claimed responsibility for the terrorist attacks in Manchester and also at London Bridge and Borough Market.

Six people died in the Westminster Bridge attack, and 22 perished in the Manchester bombing. ISIS has also claimed responsibility for the London Bridge and Borough Market attacks.




Jessica McBride is a Heavy contributor. She was a crime, government, and breaking news reporter for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and reporter for the Waukesha Freeman newspaper. Her award-winning work has appeared in numerous magazine, newspaper, and online publications. She has also appeared as a crime reporter on Investigation Discovery Channel, History Channel, and Oxygen Channel. She can be reached by email at jessica.mcbride@heavy.com. 
June 5, 2017 1:32 pm

http://heavy.com/news/2017/06/khura...ok-documentary-jihadi-next-door-abu-rumaysah/

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## hydrabadi_arab

Butt saab  yeh to Pakistani nikala 



Sabaton Band said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871774672358064128
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871781609111830528



Pretty sure butts are from punjab, not Kashmir. Remember Gullu butt? Indians trying hard to relate it to Kashmiri struggle lol


----------



## Trisonics

*Butt, 27, was a British citizen who was born in Pakistan*, London's Metropolitan Police said. Police and MI5 -- the UK's counterintelligence and security agency -- were familiar with him, but there was no intelligence to suggest the weekend attack was being planned, police said.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/05/europe/london-terror-attack-raids/index.html


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

waz said:


> Yep, born in Pakistan and raised here partly. He always spoke with a stupid accent. Anyway, he's no different from the attackers who kill innocent people in Pakistan. Also do remember the group he belonged to calls Pakistan a kaffir country, labels its founder a kaffir, calls for attacks on the Pakistani army and wants the destruction of the state for a merger with India, and all of which will be under islamic rule. He looks like and dresses like a desert nomad, rather than a traditional Pakistani. Just how much of him was Pakistani? Aside from his genetics precious little. They actually used to get into fights with Pakistanis on Pakistan independence day, when they would throw leaflets at people and call Pakistanis celebrating "nationalistic scum". They have no concept of nationhood.
> But then he is part of a problem Pakistanis had with radicalisation and something I have fought hard at eliminating. But we can only get at those who are confused, or in the midst of being introduced to people like him. Die hard filth like him can never be helped.


Quoting for emphasis.

As waz pointed out, the ideology behind people like him does not believe in Pakistan or other nation-states for that matter.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Proudpakistaniguy

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Quoting for emphasis.
> 
> As waz pointed out, the ideology behind people like him does not believe in Pakistan or other nation-states for that matter.


And they will kill even their own brother if he dont agree with their extreme ideology or violent version or rather misinterpretation of Jihad

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Sliver

Look at the conflicting view: one Muslim says "should have arrested ANjem Choudhry"


GIANTsasquatch said:


> The problem is that people like Anjem Chaudhry roam around spreading hate freely. Pakistanis in Britain want him to be booted but hes kept around by the government for unknown reasons.



and another says:


TMA said:


> So if a Muslim feels that voting in a Secular democracy is wrong, then ipso facto he is an "extremist" or "terrorist"? Or only if he shouts and interrupts sermons with his views.?
> 
> This is what I take is the underlying message of the above article?? It seems to me, that if a Muslim does not vote, he should be looked as a potential terrorist??



so Anjem choudhry is "Expressing his views peacefully".. should he or shoudnt he be arrested?
in a secular democratic country, not voting is an option, but to say to people who want to vote - to not vote - because of religious reasons, thats like breaking the fabric of the country - right?

there would have been an outrage if he would be arrested - look at one of the messages below - should a muslim be arrested just because he is peacefully expressing his views?



Zibago said:


> The govt needs to increase control to a degree where only govt approved sermons are allowed like in some Gulf states and those caught of preaching intolerant views shouldnot be allowed to be imams in mosques




more conflicting views:
dont kill radical muslims that would anger them more to come back against you


CHI RULES said:


> The sad incidents have been happening in Pakistan and many other Muslim countries due to wrong policies of West/USA and now consequences are being felt in West. It all should be stopped by reconciliation instead of hatred.
> The majority of terrorist acts done by persons who are natives of these countries by birth. You can't stop extremism by hatred or killing people but by dialogue.



kill them without proper legal recourse:



American Pakistani said:


> Britain has to copy Pakistan module and setup military courts, also lift the ban on death sentence. After creating an example out of few swines, rest will fall into place. Pakistan govt should help them with criminals who have Pakistani origin.





this conflicting views is what is leading to a paralysis of action.
my 2 cents.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

AgNoStiC MuSliM said:


> Quoting for emphasis.
> 
> As waz pointed out, the ideology behind people like him does not believe in Pakistan or other nation-states for that matter.


The terrorist of Pakistani ethnicity was an idiot.
He definitely was a not a true Pakistani who believes in what Pakistan is all about.

He did not believe in Pakistan.


----------



## waz

Trisonics said:


> *Butt, 27, was a British citizen who was born in Pakistan*, London's Metropolitan Police said. Police and MI5 -- the UK's counterintelligence and security agency -- were familiar with him, but there was no intelligence to suggest the weekend attack was being planned, police said.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2017/06/05/europe/london-terror-attack-raids/index.html



I can tell you now that is wrong. British intelligence intercepted mobile phone conversations from Barking speaking about a van and knife attack.


----------



## Sliver

EastAsian said:


> White man police know who are the trouble makers but were prevented from further actions by the intelligence on the pretext that these morons leads to valuable trails.
> 
> Who knows what is the real intentions of white man elites.


this is now pinning the blame on "white man" creating even more clashes between groups.


----------



## Path-Finder

I hope they burn the mofo.

Instead of burial


----------



## Piotr

waz said:


> Two of the filth identified.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40165646



BBC ??? Don’t you have more credible sources ?? BBC was lying about “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq. Have you ever heard about Jimmy Savile from BBC ?

So BBC claims that someone of Pakistan origin and someone of Moroccan –Libyan origin was behind latest attack ?

I don’t buy it. It makes no sense.

Cui bono ? For whose benefit were latest attacks in London and Manchester ? Those attacks were for Theresa May benefit so IMO she is behind those attacks. Two attacks just before general elections, strange isn’t it ?

According to commentator Sukant Chandan:


> *Sukant Chandan, a filmmaker and political commentator, says Prime Minister Theresa May is using the terrorist organizations directly supported by “leading Western regimes” in order to target the Muslim community in Britain, adding that Muslims are always the victims of terrorism globally.*


Source: http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/...ims-Theresa-May-speech-terrorism-Islamophobia

Regards,
Piotr

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## pakdefender

So they have turned out to be from the Al-Muhajiroun goon squad 

Omar Bakri and Anjem Choudary had been known since long , there could have been systematic clampdown on their activities but instead they were given airtime on BBC , Sky etc , where they would come and say offensive things 

The British intelligence agencies are perfectly capable of moving against such visible threats but somehow they let it go on for quite long

Britain is like second home for many Pakistanis , how that came to be is a long winding story but for better or worse it is home to many Pakistanis and their second third generations and it is not in the interests of the Pakistani community in the UK to have such individuals go on unchallenged within their communities. 

The community cannot go around arresting these type of people by themselves but they can identify them and in this case , this individual was identified so some responsibility lies with the security services that they did not move against these individuals at the earlier stage.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Irfan Baloch

pakdefender said:


> So they have turned out to be from the Al-Muhajiroun goon squad
> 
> Omar Bakri and Anjem Choudary had been known since long , there could have been systematic clampdown on their activities but instead they were given airtime on BBC , Sky etc , where they would come and say offensive things
> 
> The British intelligence agencies are perfectly capable of moving against such visible threats but somehow they let it go on for quite long
> .


Anjum Ch was their own goon. he was allowed to say most outrageous and revolting things for the shock value and got prime time coverage by the main stream media to make Muslims curse the living.
he is living a lavish Prison sentence at tax payer money (in case he is still in UK). he might be freed suddenly and he would definately say something revolting at the cost of common British Muslims.

that said.. after this terror attack there is some siver lining to the new.. according to BBC radio.. about 130 preachers and Imams refused to say Funeral payraers for the 2 scumbags who died at the hands of the police

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ram-shazad-butt-rachid-redouane-a7774291.html

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## TMA

Sliver said:


> Look at the conflicting view: one Muslim says "should have arrested ANjem Choudhry"
> 
> 
> and another says:
> 
> 
> so Anjem choudhry is "Expressing his views peacefully".. should he or shoudnt he be arrested?
> in a secular democratic country, not voting is an option, but to say to people who want to vote - to not vote - because of religious reasons, thats like breaking the fabric of the country - right?
> 
> there would have been an outrage if he would be arrested - look at one of the messages below - should a muslim be arrested just because he is peacefully expressing his views?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> more conflicting views:
> dont kill radical muslims that would anger them more to come back against you
> 
> 
> kill them without proper legal recourse:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this conflicting views is what is leading to a paralysis of action.
> my 2 cents.


He should be arrested if he has not been already. But he was/is playing into the dialectic...

He also condones attacks on civillians - this is why he should be arrested. Not because he says one should not vote.



Piotr said:


> BBC ??? Don’t you have more credible sources ?? BBC was lying about “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq. Have you ever heard about Jimmy Savile from BBC ?
> 
> So BBC claims that someone of Pakistan origin and someone of Moroccan –Libyan origin was behind latest attack ?
> 
> I don’t buy it. It makes no sense.
> 
> Cui bono ? For whose benefit were latest attacks in London and Manchester ? Those attacks were for Theresa May benefit so IMO she is behind those attacks. Two attacks just before general elections, strange isn’t it ?
> 
> According to commentator Sukant Chandan:
> 
> Source: http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/...ims-Theresa-May-speech-terrorism-Islamophobia
> 
> Regards,
> Piotr


I am afraid to say, that many in the UK take the BBC as gospel.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## MultaniGuy

Anjem Chaudhry is another idiot.


----------



## CBU-105

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871785185213329408

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871786740914286593
@Clutch


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871785185213329408
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/871786740914286593
> @Clutch



All khawarji filth


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> All khawarji filth


All salafi muslims are like that, these ones just carried out what is in their minds 24/7 365, and that is, killing kuffars. That is literally the only thing these people think about, they read that sahih al bukhari crap daily and keep braying 24/7 to get their chance to act out.

It must also be tough for salafi muslims in western countries, everywhere they look, haram, all the women who don't wear hoods on their heads are 'whores', people drink, eat pork. They should all leave the west and go settle in saudi arabia or join isis, that's where they'll be happy.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

Piotr said:


> BBC ??? Don’t you have more credible sources ?? BBC was lying about “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq. Have you ever heard about Jimmy Savile from BBC ?
> 
> So BBC claims that someone of Pakistan origin and someone of Moroccan –Libyan origin was behind latest attack ?
> 
> I don’t buy it. It makes no sense.
> 
> Cui bono ? For whose benefit were latest attacks in London and Manchester ? Those attacks were for Theresa May benefit so IMO she is behind those attacks. Two attacks just before general elections, strange isn’t it ?
> 
> According to commentator Sukant Chandan:
> 
> Source: http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/...ims-Theresa-May-speech-terrorism-Islamophobia
> 
> Regards,
> Piotr


Russian troll. What's your issue here?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Icarus

Irfan Baloch said:


> Anjum Ch was their own goon. he was allowed to say most outrageous and revolting things for the shock value and got prime time coverage by the main stream media to make Muslims curse the living.
> he is living a lavish Prison sentence at tax payer money (in case he is still in UK). he might be freed suddenly and he would definately say something revolting at the cost of common British Muslims.
> 
> that said.. after this terror attack there is some siver lining to the new.. according to BBC radio.. about 130 preachers and Imams refused to say Funeral payraers for the 2 scumbags who died at the hands of the police
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ram-shazad-butt-rachid-redouane-a7774291.html



I have no idea why the British Govt tolerates these buffoons, they are clearly incompatible with the British way of life, they very visibly represent a security risk to the country and yet they are allowed to roam free and practice hate speech openly. When shit hits the fan and one of them blows up, its the rest of the community that suffers. 
One recurring trend in these attacks has been the fact that the attackers had previously been indicated to the Police from members within the community and yet they were still allowed the leverage to carry out such attacks. 
I remember when I was visiting Nottingham back in 2010, there was this moulvi touring the Midlands from Birmingham who delivered a sermon and called on muslims to boycott doing business with the British because they "drink alcohol and engage in adultery". I took it upon myself to report the preacher to the authorities for hate speech and felt that he will now be dealt with. Three weeks later, he was back spouting the same bullshit and this time was calling on people to keep a look out for Shias, lest they have their children stolen away by them (wtf, I know).

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

waz said:


> I'm sorry bro but this was a horrible intelligence failure. He was taken in for questioning then "downgraded". It's not just me saying this but practically every expert out there, it's all over the media. You couldn't get a more stereotypical, crazed fanatic and yet he was allowed to carry on. Yes we are not a dictatorship but we do have special powers that can be granted, how do you think the war was won against the IRA in the 70's and 80's? The government would expel people from Britain and hold people without trial for days. It's time to go back to that.


Well, you can't compare British society back in the 70s to the one we have today. Today bfinging back such laws and actions will lead to public backlash and condemnation. It will also increase social tensions with some muslims(even some on here are already saying that) who will see this as an attack against muslims/islam. So I think we can compare Britain in the 1970s to Britain today. Our public and society gas changed alot. So, such a law is a no go I'm afraid. You can call it the effects of excess liberalism or whatever, but that's the simple truth. 

As for your last point, I already said from the very beginning of this thread that it was over all a failure by our intelligence services not to thwart this attack especially so soon after the Manchester bombing. However, I understand the laws under which they have to operate as well. There's only so much they can do. They couldn't have arrested thus fanatics either , since there's not enough prove to imprison them in Britain apart from their radical views/hate preach, which isn't such a serious offence giving there are lots of legal loopholes they can exploit to remain free and avoid prosecution. So sometimes I understand the frustration of some members of public and our security forces, there's only so much they can do. Just look at the case I highlighted earlier about those radical islamic schools who have been brainwashing their pupils with some twisted ideology, yet they government has found it difficult to close them all down due to our legal system/laws.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Penguin

Piotr said:


> BBC ??? Don’t you have more credible sources ?? BBC was lying about “weapons of mass destruction” in Iraq. Have you ever heard about Jimmy Savile from BBC ?
> 
> So BBC claims that someone of Pakistan origin and someone of Moroccan –Libyan origin was behind latest attack ?
> 
> I don’t buy it. It makes no sense.
> 
> Cui bono ? For whose benefit were latest attacks in London and Manchester ? Those attacks were for Theresa May benefit so IMO she is behind those attacks. Two attacks just before general elections, strange isn’t it ?
> 
> According to commentator Sukant Chandan:
> 
> Source: http://www.presstv.com/Detail/2017/...ims-Theresa-May-speech-terrorism-Islamophobia
> 
> Regards,
> Piotr


PressTV, your reliable Iranian news source (much like RT and Sputnik)


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> All salafi muslims are like that, these ones just carried out what is in their minds 24/7 365, and that is, killing kuffars. That is literally the only thing these people think about, they read that sahih al bukhari crap daily and keep braying 24/7 to get their chance to act out.
> 
> It must also be tough for salafi muslims in western countries, everywhere they look, haram, all the women who don't wear hoods on their heads are 'whores', people drink, eat pork. They should all leave the west and go settle in saudi arabia or join isis, that's where they'll be happy.


Are you Muslim or Hindu?

No not all salafi are like this ... way off base


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> Are you Muslim or Hindu?
> 
> No not all salafi are like this ... way off base


Every single one of them is an incident waiting to happen. We know they are literalists who aspire to live the way they did back in 7th century arabia. We know their favourite hadiths and passages, all you need to do is read the texts to find out what's in their mind.

Every second of life in the west must be absolute torture for these guys, no wonder they keep snapping. Bars on every street, women who dress how they want to, a secular culture.. just horrible.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> Every single one of them is an incident waiting to happen. We know they are literalists who aspire to live the way they did back in 7th century arabia. We know their favourite hadiths and passages, all you need to do is read the texts to find out what's in their mind.
> 
> Every second of life in the west must be absolute torture for these guys, no wonder they keep snapping. Bars on every street, women who dress how they want to, a secular culture.. just horrible.


Well a Hindu who doesn't know anything...

Khawarji are an offshoot of salafi or wahabis they practise tekfiri... big difference.

I wouldn't expect a Hindu from knowing anything


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> Well a Hindu who doesn't know anything...
> 
> Khawarji are an offshoot of salafi or wahabis they practise tekfiri... big difference.
> 
> I wouldn't expect a Hindu from knowing anything


semantics, but I can play along.

Khwarij were in the 7th century. 

These guys are your modern day wahabis/salafi, islamic supremacists essentially.

It's like a grasshopper to locust transformation when they suddenly snap, it is latent within all of them, waiting for a chance to come out, but the mindset is the same.


----------



## mike2000 is back

Offshore said:


> Can British change the law or add another laws?
> I mean, how stupid is that watching your youth poisoned by these radical people?
> 
> What have your goverment do so far to change the laws?
> 
> Obviously this attack not going to be the last.


Yes I'm aware of that bro. However, it's hard to enact new stringent laws that might be deemed "too harsh" or controversial. This might used by these extremists as well, as they can easily use the excuse of "evil western governments" are targeting muslims and passing "anti Islamic" laws. You know how good these people are when it comes to turning anything that comes from the West as evil and aimed at Islam/muslims. So such laws might be used to furtger their propaganda and brainwashing of muslim youths in Britain even more. 


EastAsian said:


> This is an excuse. You wont be allow to open schools asking students to shout hail Hitler without being thrown into jail.


Lol Well, you do have a point. However, the two are different. Society all over the West is well aware of the scars of the Nazis, and laws relating to this had been reacted decades ago after WWII, compared to islamic extremism/terrorism in the West which increased sharply just less than 2 decades ago. So society here needs time to adjust to this relatively new menace.



CBU-105 said:


> Every second of life in the west must be absolute torture for these guys, no wonder they keep snapping. Bars on every street, women who dress how they want to, a secular culture.. just horrible


Lol True, and yet most of them won't leave for their "islamic state" back home. 
Using their logic , we can ask what are they doing here in a first place?


----------



## Banglar Bir

*Channel 4 News*
1 hr · 
"I don't think we should be rolling out the red carpet to the President...in the circumstances where his policies go against everything we stand for."

Mayor of London Sadiq Khan criticises Donald J. Trump's response to the London terror attack.





__ https://www.facebook.com/


----------



## mike2000 is back

EastAsian said:


> Westerners is self castrated


Depends on who you ask. Some Islamic extremists believe we are not castrated enough.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CBU-105

mike2000 is back said:


> we can ask what are they doing here in a first place?


religious conquest.


----------



## Offshore

mike2000 is back said:


> Yes I'm aware of that bro. However, it's hard to enact new stringent laws that might be deemed "too harsh" or controversial. This might used by these extremists as well, as they can easily use the excuse of "evil western governments" are targeting muslims and passing "anti Islamic" laws. You know how good these people are when it comes to turning anything that comes from the West as evil and aimed at Islam/muslims. So such laws might be used to furtger their propaganda and brainwashing of muslim youths in Britain even more.
> 
> Lol Well, you do have a point. However, the two are different. Society all over the West is well aware of the scars of the Nazis, and laws relating to this had been reacted decades ago after WWII, compared to islamic extremism/terrorism in the West which increased sharply just less than 2 decades ago. So society here needs time to adjust to this relatively new menace.
> 
> 
> Lol True, and yet most of them won't leave for their "islamic state" back home.
> Using their logic , we can ask what are they doing here in a first place?



When it come to business or money.. your goverment very Pro-active. But when it come to internal security, your goverment Re-active. 
Maybe wait until one of your elite got killed, they will start worried and take action 

Bad decision still better than doing nothing.
Time for British use iron claw to skin these radical alive.


----------



## mike2000 is back

EastAsian said:


> With modern control of media and mind shaping techniques, white elites can control their population to a large degree if they want to.
> 
> The Anglo-Jewish elites have effectively de-nationalism-ized the white people.
> 
> Islamization of west is a deliberate policy, not an outcome of intrinsic growth of Islam in white man land.


What's with you and "white man". Do all Iranians think like that?



Offshore said:


> When it come to business or money.. your goverment very Pro-active. But when it come to internal security, your goverment Re-active.
> *Maybe wait until one of your elite got killed, they will start worried and take action*


To be honest. I don't think that anything much will change even if that happened. It's more than just that. It's more to do with the way our society has evolved and changed to such an extent that it will be hard for our government to pass such stringent laws without a public backlash. So I don't see any politician or PM that is willing to risk his political career by following this route. Until there is a drastic public change in attitude in favour of such actions , nothing much will change.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Indus Pakistan

Mitho1980 said:


> Can i ask who is habouring altaf hussain who. Is responsible for thousands of murders in karachi. U sow what u reap. Go ask ur govt why are the keeping a murderer giving him citenzship?


To which they will ask why are (were) *millions* in Karachi voting for his party?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Trisonics

*Exclusive: Police in Pakistan search former home of London Bridge terrorist Khuram Butt and question his uncle*

Plain clothes officers in Pakistan have searched the former family home of London Bridge terrorist Khuram Butt and questioned one of his uncles.

The officers - believed to be from Pakistan's all-powerful Inter Service Intelligence agency, which is Pakistan's answer to M15 - visited the house in Butt's home village of Mujahidabad, around 60 miles south east of the capital, Islamabad.

*Butt, 27, one of the three terrorists involved in Saturday's knife rampage at London Bridge, was raised in Britain but spent his very early years in Pakistan.*






Khuram Butt, left, and Rachid Redouane
*Dozens of officers also searched a restaurant in the nearby city of Jhelum, ten minutes' drive from Mujahidabad, which is thought to belong to Nasir Dar, a local businessman who is an uncle of Butt.*

Butt's late father, Saif, is believed to have owned a furniture shop in Jhelum before emigrating to the UK in 1988 with his family. 





Plain clothes police (far right) and residents of Khuram Butt's former family home in the village of Mujahidabad, Pakistan
Locals in Mujahidabad, a quiet hamlet in the countryside, spoke of their shock when a large detachment of plain clothes police descended on the village on Tuesday morning and asked where the Butt family home was. 

Butt's father, Saif, had sold it back in 2006 to another family who have no connection to them.


Zahid Nawaz, a neighbour, told The Telegraph: "The police asked questions about where Saif and Khurrum Butt's house was. That was the first we came to know that the suspect in the terror attack in Britain belonged in this area. This is a shame for us - we don't want this area to become identified with him and his name."





A plain clothes policeman (left) and neighbours outside the gate of Khuram Butt's former family home in the village of Mujahidabad, Pakistan
Another neighbour, Mohammed Muskain, said: "I just only remember that Kuram Butt was 2-3 years old when he moved with his family to the UK. I can't believe that he could do this terrible attack because his father, Saif Butt, was a humble person, simply a businessman. I can't understand how his son would become a terrorist. 

One Pakistani official told The Telegraph that British officials had said that they suspected Butt had been radicalised in the UK rather than in Pakistan, but that they were carrying out searches of family members houses in both Mujahidabad and Jhelum as a precaution. 

The uncle whose restaurant was searched, Nasir Dar, is understood to have been questioned but not taken into custody.

"Our British counterparts told us they don't think he was radicalised here, and we think it is probably more likely that he was trained in Syria. But we are searching the homes of any relatives connected to him and we are tracing all telephone calls made by family members," the official said.


Jhelum lies in a part of Pakistan where many members of the British-Pakistani community originally hail from. The nearby city of Mirpur, in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, is known as "Little England" due to its large British Pakistani community.

The region's connection with Britain goes back the building of the vast Mirpur dam in the 1960s, when 5,000 locals whose villages were flooded were given work permits for Britain.

Many moved to east London, Birmingham and the textile towns of northern England, and it is claimed that anything up to 70 per cent of Britain's Pakistani community have roots in the Mirpur region.

In Mirpur, the link with Britain is clear, with shops stocking imported Tescos products, takeaways selling fish and chips, and many businesses advertising with Bradford phone numbers. Yorkshire accents can also be heard.

*The disclosure that one of the London Bridge attackers had Pakistani roots will alarm officials in the country's government, who have made much efforts in recent years to rid Pakistan of its reputation as a hotbed of Islamic terror.*

*In the decade after 9-11, Pakistan's ISI intelligence service was accused of allowing al-Qaeda and Taliban factions to train on its own soil, using them as proxies in neighbouring Afghanistan to stop rival India getting a foothold there.*

Islamabad then came under intense international pressure as such groups grew out of its control, using their bases in the country's lawless tribal areas havens to hatch plots on targets in the West. 





London Mayor Sadiq Khan bows his head during a vigil in Potters Fields Park in London
*Numerous terrorist volunteers from Britain's Pakistani community received training in such camps, most notoriously Mohammad Sidique Khan, the ring leader of the July 7 London bombers, who attended a camp in the tribal district of Malakand. *


Islamabad also faced huge embarrassment in 2011 when the US military captured and killed Osama bin Laden at a house in the Pakistani army town of Abbottabad, where he was hiding under the noses of Pakistan's military high command.

However, since 2014, Pakistan's government has been waging what it claimed was all out war on terrorist factions. Angered by two savage Taliban attacks that followed the collapse of peace talks - including one on an army-run school in which 122 children were massacred - Pakistan's all-powerful security established launched operation Zarb-e-Azb - or "Cutting Strike". 

Since, then thousands of militants have been killed or imprisoned, while terrorist strikes in Pakistan itself have dropped by around half. 

As the Telegraph reported earlier this year, the army has also retaken control of once-notorious safe havens like Miranshah, where terrorists had converted houses into factories churning out bombs on an industrial scale, and also set up studios where suicide bombers could record "martyrdom" videos.





A member loyal to the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) waves an ISIL flag in Raqqa
The military claims the anti-terror operations have made Pakistan much less attractive as a training ground for British jihadi volunteers - especially compared to Syria, which is much closer to Europe. 



But experts say some threats still remain. 

*A few training camps still exist in remote areas, and support for radical Islam remains strong among a significant minority of the country's 190 million people.*


Attempts to crack down on hardline preachers in both mosques and religious schools known as madrassas have had only limited success, according to Kamal Alam, visiting fellow at London's Royal United Services Institute, a defence and security think-tank.

*"Most of the terror training camps that used to exist in Pakistan are no longer there, and I think most of the radicalisation of young men of Pakistani heritage in Britain is done here in the UK," he told The Telegraph.*

London Bridge terror attack: how the world reacted

02:36

"So when they go there, they are already converts to the cause. However, there are still lots of madrassas in Pakistan that will encourage people to go to fight. So young British-Pakistanis may still choose to go there for inspiration, if not actual tactical instruction. 

"It is about the ideological side rather than the military side. It is easy for them to go there too as they have relatives out there, whereas if they head to Iraq or Syria they may attract attention from the security services."

Mr Alam cited the example of the Lal Masjid mosque in the heart of the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, which was the scene of a bloody siege in 2007 when a resident cleric led heavily-armed al-Qaeda gunmen in a fight with security forces that left nearly 100 children, soldiers and militants dead.


Despite the bloody confrontation, the cleric, Maulana Abdul Aziz, has continued to preach at the mosque after the collapse of cases brought against him the Pakistani courts, which have often been cowed by militant pressure. 

In 2014, he named a library at one of the mosque's seminaries after Osama Bin Laden, and in December of that year he openly declared his support for the Islamic State.

"*While Pakistan has won the tactical and military battle against extremism, they are losing the ideological battle," Mr Alam added. "Not only is extremism still there, it is still flourishing, and unfortunately you cannot simply arrest a million people."*

*http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rch-restaurant-owned-relatives-london-bridge/*


----------



## CHI RULES

Sliver said:


> Look at the conflicting view: one Muslim says "should have arrested ANjem Choudhry"
> 
> 
> and another says:
> 
> 
> so Anjem choudhry is "Expressing his views peacefully".. should he or shoudnt he be arrested?
> in a secular democratic country, not voting is an option, but to say to people who want to vote - to not vote - because of religious reasons, thats like breaking the fabric of the country - right?
> 
> there would have been an outrage if he would be arrested - look at one of the messages below - should a muslim be arrested just because he is peacefully expressing his views?
> 
> The indiscriminate killing has brought destruction in first in Muslim countries and now in Europe.
> 
> 
> more conflicting views:
> dont kill radical muslims that would anger them more to come back against you
> 
> 
> kill them without proper legal recourse:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> this conflicting views is what is leading to a paralysis of action.
> my 2 cents.





CBU-105 said:


> All salafi muslims are like that, these ones just carried out what is in their minds 24/7 365, and that is, killing kuffars. That is literally the only thing these people think about, they read that sahih al bukhari crap daily and keep braying 24/7 to get their chance to act out.
> 
> It must also be tough for salafi muslims in western countries, everywhere they look, haram, all the women who don't wear hoods on their heads are 'whores', people drink, eat pork. They should all leave the west and go settle in saudi arabia or join isis, that's where they'll be happy.



Please do check your language Sir, calling Sahih Bukhari a crap, u should mind your langauge pls at public forum. Sahih Bokhari is guiding book for Muslims from all sects. Moreover the people involved in terrorist acts are mostly Khawarijis who do not follow Hadees or judicial laws made by Caliphs.
It is utterly ignorance to mix two school of thoughts with each other. There are two types of struggles going on especially in Islamic world and generally in the world.

One is the conflict between Wahabis and Shias( totally political/sectarian in nature).

Second is the war waged by Khawarijis off course some misguided people of other sects also following them. The war of Khwarijis is against all sects of Islam and non Muslims alike.


----------



## NoOne'sBoy

I watched the documentary. I myself have seen tossers like them on the streets. Never thought they are violent though definitely sick in the head. Looks like that character from Harry Potter who has a long beard. No way in hell anyone can get laid with that look. Not getting pussy can definitely drive a man to the edge I guess.


----------



## CBU-105

CHI RULES said:


> Please do check your language Sir, calling Sahih Bukhari a crap, u should mind your langauge pls at public forum. Sahih Bokhari is guiding book for Muslims from all sects.



Sorry that upset your feelings but people need to start speaking up and speaking the bitter truth. Ideally it should be muslims who do so but they'll get killed in their home countries if they do. Sunni muslims know this better than anyone else but they're more interested in shouting (and worse) the shi'ite down when they point it out, and intimidating their own should anyone dare to speak the truth about saudi arabian salafi/wahabi islam. Politicians in the muslim world won't do it for political reasons.

It's a hateful, supremacist worldview where violence has divine sanction and these zombies think thek they'll go to paradise to brutalize underage girls and killing kuffars is the ticket, business class if they do it in the holy month. #salafimindset



> Moreover the people involved in terrorist acts are mostly Khawarijis who do not follow Hadees or judicial laws made by Caliphs.


-The wahabi/salafi are literalists, there is no room for interpretation, no morals to be learnt... when they read "no mercy for kuffars.." or something, it means no mercy for kuffars.



> It is utterly ignorance to mix two school of thoughts with each other. There are two types of struggles going on especially in Islamic world and generally in the world.
> 
> One is the conflict between Wahabis and Shias( totally political/sectarian in nature).
> 
> Second is the war waged by Khawarijis off course some misguided people of other sects also following them. The war of Khwarijis is against all sects of Islam and non Muslims alike.


what is this "khwarij" but not deflection.

"khwarij" were 7th century terrorists, these new guys are 21st century iphone terrorists.

"khwarij" is just another "nothing to do with Islam" like slogan, what word you use to describe the literalists means little.

There is a problem in Islam, but I'm not saying all muslims are like that, just pointing out the real cause of all this terror, let's have a real conversation about it, there is very little nuance in the fake mainstream media discourse where they're all about cringy slogans.


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> semantics, but I can play along.
> 
> Khwarij were in the 7th century.
> 
> These guys are your modern day wahabis/salafi, islamic supremacists essentially.
> 
> It's like a grasshopper to locust transformation when they suddenly snap, it is latent within all of them, waiting for a chance to come out, but the mindset is the same.



Semantics on your part... but I can try to educate Internet educated yet not affiliated like yourself...

Its like this ... you have Hindutvas and their derivative the RSS the extremists Hindutva... the RSS type are prone to raping and lynching just like the ISIS type however it does not mean the all Hindutvas are prone to raping in and lynching although they may share the same sort of regressive doctrine. 

Likewise, yet, isis and al qaeeda (remember those guys) are derivative of wahabbisism and salafism (both are almost the same)... but to say all of you are wahabis therefore you are Isis is incorrect... just like if you are Hindutva therefore you are RSS Hindutva may be an exaggeration


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> religious conquest.


Most of them are born there... they are misfits and rejects... by their own choosing... classical definition of looser. They need to be shipped out ... to India to join zaki Naik and his ilk



CBU-105 said:


> Sorry that upset your feelings but people need to start speaking up and speaking the bitter truth. Ideally it should be muslims who do so but they'll get killed in their home countries if they do. Sunni muslims know this better than anyone else but they're more interested in shouting (and worse) the shi'ite down when they point it out, and intimidating their own should anyone dare to speak the truth about saudi arabian salafi/wahabi islam. Politicians in the muslim world won't do it for political reasons.
> 
> It's a hateful, supremacist worldview where violence has divine sanction and these zombies think thek they'll go to paradise to brutalize underage girls and killing kuffars is the ticket, business class if they do it in the holy month. #salafimindset
> 
> 
> -The wahabi/salafi are literalists, there is no room for interpretation, no morals to be learnt... when they read "no mercy for kuffars.." or something, it means no mercy for kuffars.
> 
> 
> what is this "khwarij" but not deflection.
> 
> "khwarij" were 7th century terrorists, these new guys are 21st century iphone terrorists.
> 
> "khwarij" is just another "nothing to do with Islam" like slogan, what word you use to describe the literalists means little.
> 
> There is a problem in Islam, but I'm not saying all muslims are like that, just pointing out the real cause of all this terror, let's have a real conversation about it, there is very little nuance in the fake mainstream media discourse where they're all about cringy slogans.




Khawarji is the problem in Islam... because they have hijacked the religion... although over 99% of Muslims reject their crappie


----------



## Clutch

EastAsian said:


> Misfits and loser elsewhere commits petty crime, robbery, murder or even rape.
> 
> The prevalence of toxic cleric gave these idiots an cosmic self-worth in pursue of suicide mission.



It's all semantics... it's the Internet mullahs online indoctrination..... Just like the Hindutva extremism ... both looser


----------



## TMA

CBU-105 said:


> religious conquest.


You, I and the (Deep) State know that these terror attacks in no way are a threat to the State. It is akin to a toddler throwing stones at a tank. 
All they do is further the dialectical Clash and strengthen Big Brother.


----------



## Clutch

EastAsian said:


> Probably more face to face suicide grooming than internet. You dont blow yourself up watching youtube mad preacher.



Maybe in the early 2000s... but these days even most terrorism experts have stated that today's problem is because of Internet indoctrination because these rats are aware of the surveillance and people willing to report them to authorities.


----------



## illusion8

Clutch said:


> Most of them are born there... they are misfits and rejects... by their own choosing... classical definition of looser. They need to be shipped out ... to India to join zaki Naik and his ilk



lol..Zakir naik is now a saudi citizen..They will be quite at home in Pakistan though.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Clutch

illusion8 said:


> lol..Zakir naik is now a saudi citizen..They will be quite at home in Pakistan though.




There are thousands upon thousands of his disciples in India.


----------



## illusion8

Clutch said:


> There are thousands upon thousands of his disciples in India.



Name one.


----------



## Clutch

illusion8 said:


> Name one.


Zaki Naik has been talking to a wall all these decades?


----------



## illusion8

Clutch said:


> Zaki Naik has been talking to a wall all these decades?



lol..no, there are @ssholes everywhere. 

As for this pakistani who was one of the terrorist. .He wasn't a zakir naik fan..He was a fan of another Pakistani preacher - anjem chowdary.


----------



## Clutch

illusion8 said:


> lol..no, there are @ssholes everywhere.
> 
> As for this pakistani who was one of the terrorist. .He wasn't a zakir naik fan..He was a fan of another Pakistani preacher - anjem chowdary.




Anum chowdary is born and bred British... fyi


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> Semantics on your part... but I can try to educate Internet educated yet not affiliated like yourself...


let's stop with the snide insults first, shall we ?

but you have put it down a few notches from ISIS level "you hindu/mushrik" lol to a tamer "Internet educated yet not affiliated" 

The truth is that I know more than you would ideally want a "hindu" to know, isn't it ? 



Clutch said:


> ts like this ... you have *Hindutvas *and their derivative the *RSS* the *extremists Hindutva*... the *RSS *type are *prone to raping and lynching just like the ISIS *type however it does not mean the all *Hindutvas *are prone to raping in and lynching although they may share the *same sort of regressive doctrine*.


easily debunkable false equivalencies.

but I'm not RSS, don't care about you hating hundutva or BJP etc, it is irrelevant to this thread so let's not derail the discussion.



Clutch said:


> Likewise, yet, isis and al qaeeda (remember those guys) are derivative of wahabbisism and salafism (both are almost the same)... but to say all of you are wahabis therefore you are Isis is incorrect... just like if you are Hindutva therefore you are RSS Hindutva may be an exaggeration


They're all walking time bombs is what I'm saying. They wouldn't care for any consequences and will proceed to spill your brains out and chop your head off if you blaspheme.

All salafis 110% support the jihad against the Syrian government.

Go ask a salafi what he thinks of SAA vs Al qaeda/ISIS type "Rebels" in Syria, every single one of them will support ISIS.

The ones not interested in geopolitics might not have an opinion but they'll still chop your head off, as religious duty, should you blaspheme.

but hindutva and white supremacy is to blamed and is just as bad as the global jihad, sure.. 



Clutch said:


> Most of them are born there... they are misfits and rejects...


and why are they misfits ?

because of their particular literalist jihad loving kuffar killing 7th century arabian ideology.



Clutch said:


> Khawarji is the problem in Islam... because they have hijacked the religion... although over 99% of Muslims reject their crappie


sure, most regular people don't agree with murdering randoms, I agree.

none of what I'm saying is about "muslims", all 1.5 billion of them.

we're being very nuanced and specific and identifying where the _leak _is and calling it out.

can't get rid of 21st century "khwarij" without eliminating 7th century salafi ideology.

or, reform it, but Trump just gave the al saud foxes the keys to the hen house with the new "centre for combating extremist ideology" lmfao 



TMA said:


> You, I and the (Deep) State know that these terror attacks in no way are a threat to the State. It is akin to a toddler throwing stones at a tank.
> All they do is further the dialectical Clash and strengthen Big Brother.


Agree, I mean, even if they pull off a 9/11 style big league attack and kill thousands, it won't mean that the black flag of ISIS/qaeda/saudi will suddenly be planted on westminster abbey overnight, or even in the foreseeable future. 

It also does further the cause of the surveillance state, May's comments were particularly alarming. 

I just worry about how long even a tolerant, secular, inclusive and advanced western society such as in the UK can take it (both the propaganda and the attacks themselves) before it snaps. 

Worrying times, increased jihad attacks in the west, a belligerent and unapologetic saudi vassal state in league with the zionists spewing poison everywhere, reactionary nationalism on the rise. 

Numbers wise they have it sealed, the native grasshopper Europeans might go full locust/fascist if they snap. What happens when the next big 9/11 style thing happens ?


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> let's stop with the snide insults first, shall we ?
> 
> but you have put it down a few notches from ISIS level "you hindu/mushrik" lol to a tamer "Internet educated yet not affiliated"
> 
> The truth is that I know more than you would ideally want a "hindu" to know, isn't it ?
> 
> 
> easily debunkable false equivalencies.
> 
> but I'm not RSS, don't care about you hating hundutva or BJP etc, it is irrelevant to this thread so let's not derail the discussion.
> 
> 
> They're all walking time bombs is what I'm saying. They wouldn't care for any consequences and will proceed to spill your brains out and chop your head off if you blaspheme.
> 
> All salafis 110% support the jihad against the Syrian government.
> 
> Go ask a salafi what he thinks of SAA vs Al qaeda/ISIS type "Rebels" in Syria, every single one of them will support ISIS.
> 
> The ones not interested in geopolitics might not have an opinion but they'll still chop your head off, as religious duty, should you blaspheme.
> 
> but hindutva and white supremacy is to blamed and is just as bad as the global jihad, sure..
> 
> 
> and why are they misfits ?
> 
> because of their particular literalist jihad loving kuffar killing 7th century arabian ideology.
> 
> 
> sure, most regular people don't agree with murdering randoms, I agree.
> 
> none of what I'm saying is about "muslims", all 1.5 billion of them.
> 
> we're being very nuanced and specific and identifying where the _leak _is and calling it out.
> 
> can't get rid of 21st century "khwarij" without eliminating 7th century salafi ideology.
> 
> or, reform it, but Trump just gave the al saud foxes the keys to the hen house with the new "centre for combating extremist ideology" lmfao
> 
> 
> Agree, I mean, even if they pull off a 9/11 style big league attack and kill thousands, it won't mean that the black flag of ISIS/qaeda/saudi will suddenly be planted on westminster abbey overnight, or even in the foreseeable future.
> 
> It also does further the cause of the surveillance state, May's comments were particularly alarming.
> 
> I just worry about how long even a tolerant, secular, inclusive and advanced western society such as in the UK can take it (both the propaganda and the attacks themselves) before it snaps.
> 
> Worrying times, increased jihad attacks in the west, a belligerent and unapologetic saudi vassal state in league with the zionists spewing poison everywhere, reactionary nationalism on the rise.
> 
> Numbers wise they have it sealed, the native grasshopper Europeans might go full locust/fascist if they snap. What happens when the next big 9/11 style thing happens ?



Well Hindutva and ISIS are both different sides of the same coin.

Actually you know very little. Everyone knows who isis is... they are tekfiri... similar to the Hindutva extremism theology of your brethren...

Outside of the common understanding... you have very little knowledge of Islamic theology

Other than that... I agree with a lot of our points... yes they are a definitive threat... wahabbi types are more prone to terrorism... I also think like you the future is very bleak. ... this will only get worse... another 9/11 type attack is probably more probable than not... western state will go after all Muslims... that's also pretty much a given.... The world is heading for a total mess... I guess osama bin laddin vision is coming true...


----------



## TMA

CBU-105 said:


> let's stop with the snide insults first, shall we ?
> 
> but you have put it down a few notches from ISIS level "you hindu/mushrik" lol to a tamer "Internet educated yet not affiliated"
> 
> The truth is that I know more than you would ideally want a "hindu" to know, isn't it ?
> 
> 
> easily debunkable false equivalencies.
> 
> but I'm not RSS, don't care about you hating hundutva or BJP etc, it is irrelevant to this thread so let's not derail the discussion.
> 
> 
> They're all walking time bombs is what I'm saying. They wouldn't care for any consequences and will proceed to spill your brains out and chop your head off if you blaspheme.
> 
> All salafis 110% support the jihad against the Syrian government.
> 
> Go ask a salafi what he thinks of SAA vs Al qaeda/ISIS type "Rebels" in Syria, every single one of them will support ISIS.
> 
> The ones not interested in geopolitics might not have an opinion but they'll still chop your head off, as religious duty, should you blaspheme.
> 
> but hindutva and white supremacy is to blamed and is just as bad as the global jihad, sure..
> 
> 
> and why are they misfits ?
> 
> because of their particular literalist jihad loving kuffar killing 7th century arabian ideology.
> 
> 
> sure, most regular people don't agree with murdering randoms, I agree.
> 
> none of what I'm saying is about "muslims", all 1.5 billion of them.
> 
> we're being very nuanced and specific and identifying where the _leak _is and calling it out.
> 
> can't get rid of 21st century "khwarij" without eliminating 7th century salafi ideology.
> 
> or, reform it, but Trump just gave the al saud foxes the keys to the hen house with the new "centre for combating extremist ideology" lmfao
> 
> 
> Agree, I mean, even if they pull off a 9/11 style big league attack and kill thousands, it won't mean that the black flag of ISIS/qaeda/saudi will suddenly be planted on westminster abbey overnight, or even in the foreseeable future.
> 
> It also does further the cause of the surveillance state, May's comments were particularly alarming.
> 
> I just worry about how long even a tolerant, secular, inclusive and advanced western society such as in the UK can take it (both the propaganda and the attacks themselves) before it snaps.
> 
> Worrying times, increased jihad attacks in the west, a belligerent and unapologetic saudi vassal state in league with the zionists spewing poison everywhere, reactionary nationalism on the rise.
> 
> Numbers wise they have it sealed, the native grasshopper Europeans might go full locust/fascist if they snap. What happens when the next big 9/11 style thing happens ?


Is someone who believes that the Quran is the actual word of the Lord God and that the Son of Abdullah of Mecca (PBUH) is his final messenger a "Salafi" in your book?


----------



## Clutch

TMA said:


> Is someone who believes that the Quran is the actual word of the Lord God and that the Son of Abdullah of Mecca (PBUH) is his final messenger a "Salafi" in your book?


He is Hindu... fyi


----------



## TMA

Clutch said:


> He is Hindu... fyi


I gather that but I still wish to ask his opinion.


----------



## Musafir117

waz said:


> Dear posters at 15.00 onwards of this video you can see the ring leader of the now dead terrorists. He is the tall, thin man with a brown Arabic dress on, with a light green headress. He was in the park with his group when channel 4 filmed the documentary.


@waz Bhai British need to change their few laws to tackle with situation, they are realy providing a great free space to grow up exterism which further turn into terrorism. They realy under estimating the threat of DAESH/ISIS Khawarjis or something else. May Allah save us all from this Fitna e Azeem.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CBU-105

Clutch said:


> Well Hindutva and ISIS are both different sides of the same coin.
> 
> Actually you know very little. Everyone knows who isis is... they are tekfiri... similar to the Hindutva extremism theology of your brethren...
> 
> Outside of the common understanding... you have very little knowledge of Islamic theology
> 
> Other than that... I agree with a lot of our points... yes they are a definitive threat... wahabbi types are more prone to terrorism... I also think like you the future is very bleak. ... this will only get worse... another 9/11 type attack is probably more probable than not... western state will go after all Muslims... that's also pretty much a given.... The world is heading for a total mess... I guess osama bin laddin vision is coming true...


I have enough of an idea about the literalists within Islam. I don't have time right now to dig up jihadi passages from the texts about _striving hard_  against the unbelievers ?

and indeed, humanity seems headed to a very dark period again but I guess these things are cyclical. Almost exactly a 100 years since the first great war and the fall of the ottoman empire that reshaped the world, we're due another series of seismic events that will reshape our world again.



TMA said:


> Is someone who believes that the Quran is the actual word of the Lord God and that the Son of Abdullah of Mecca (PBUH) is his final messenger a "Salafi" in your book?


No, that's a core Islamic belief that all muslims subscribe to.

Salafis are literalists who want to live a 7th century lifestyle and impose it on the entire planet.



Clutch said:


> He is Hindu... fyi


lol, so ?

I'm irreligious, atheist/agnostic if you will.


----------



## Clutch

CBU-105 said:


> I have enough of an idea about the literalists within Islam. I don't have time right now to dig up jihadi passages from the texts about _striving hard_ :pleasentry: against the unbelievers ?
> 
> and indeed, humanity seems headed to a very dark period again but I guess these things are cyclical. Almost exactly a 100 years since the first great war and the fall of the ottoman empire that reshaped the world, we're due another series of seismic events that will reshape our world again.
> 
> 
> No, that's a core Islamic belief that all muslims subscribe to.
> 
> Salafis are literalists who want to live a 7th century lifestyle and impose it on the entire planet.
> 
> 
> lol, so ?
> 
> I'm irreligious, atheist/agnostic if you will.




You keep saying "jihad literature this jihadi literature that" ... who cares... it's all khawarji crap.

Real jihad is what Pak solders do against Indian rape of Kashmir with Honor and valour.

You have no idea about Islam till probably spin bits from 2001 onwards from websites. I on the other hand live it.

Give me one quote from the Quran promoting terror?
.. You will not find any unless it's a twisted translated version.

Irrespective of whether you are agnostic or a practising Hindu... you allegiances are for the Hindutva nation and are by default biased in your views

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

Musafir117 said:


> @waz Bhai British need to change their few laws to tackle with situation, they are realy providing a great free space to grow up exterism which further turn into terrorism. They realy under estimating the threat of DAESH/ISIS Khawarjis or something else. May Allah save us all from this Fitna e Azeem.


 Agree. It has more to do with our laws, and also the fact that it's difficult or not post for the police to imprison someone just for some radical islamic views they might have or preach about. So I think @waz is right we need to change our laws. However, there will be alot of upstacles in doing so.

*Why was monster London Bridge terrorist Khuram Butt allowed to roam free?*
The savage attacker starred in Channel 4 documentary 'The Jihadis Next Door' waving an Isis-style flag while two members of the public warned police about his extremism.


BY TOM PETTIFOR
22:56, 5 JUN 2017UPDATED17:07, 6 JUN 2017
_London Bridge murderer Khuram Butt was left free to kill despite being a known Islamist fanatic.

The extremist had been under policeinvestigation since 2015 and even appeared on a TV programme called The Jihadis Next Door, where he was part of a group who paid homage to a black Isis-style flag in London’s Regent’s Park.


Butt, named by police yesterday along with accomplice Rashid Redouane,was a known associate of Isis mouthpiece and suspected terror recruiter Anjem Choudary.

Two members of the public had warned police about Butt’s extremism, and he is suspected of links to two notorious Isis murderers.


But he remained free. And on Saturday night, he and Redouane killed seven people and injured 49 in a brutal rampage with a third terrorist who has yet to be identified.

The gang rammed pedestrians with a van on London Bridge then ran amok in Borough Market, hacking and slashing at civilians with knives, before police cut them down in a hail of bullets.

Mohammed Shafiq, head of the anti-extremism Ramadhan Foundation, said last night: “I am not surprised Butt carried out the attack. There are serious questions for the authorities.

“Many of us in the Muslim community have been demanding action against these extremists, to no avail.”


Shafiq said Butt, 27, had been known for years for his links to Choudary’s vile group al-Muhajiroiun, now banned.

He added: “Choudary, Butt and their group of terrorist sympathisers have been known to authorities, and nothing was done for years.

“I call for an immediate investigation into what the police knew, what was done and why action was not taken against them.”

Choudary has been linked to the recruitment of more than 100 British terror suspects.

Channel 4/Ruckas Pictures





Butt starred in the Channel 4 documentary
The UK’s senior anti-terrorism officer, Scotland Yard assistant commissioner Mark Rowley, brushed aside criticism of how Butt’s case was handled. He said he had seen “nothing yet” to suggest that a “poor decision has been made”.

Rowley confirmed Butt had been known to police and MI5, and that an investigation of him began in 2015.

But he said the authorities never found any evidence that he was planning an attack, so he was moved into the “lower echelons” of the 500 most active terror investigations.

Rowley refused to say when the investgation was downgraded. He added: “It’s not a black and white issue but over a period the operation has fallen to the lower echelons.

“There was no intelligence to suggest this attack was being planned and theinvestigation had been prioritised accordingly.”

Metropolitan Police /PA Wire




Police have released an image of Khuram Shazad Butt
Rowley said work was continuing to learn more about the attackers and “whether they were assisted or supported by anyone else”.

Butt was a British citizen whose parents moved here from Pakistan. He lived in Barking, east London.

Redouane, who was a “clean skin” not known to police, also lived in the area. It’s not known how they met each other.

Butt was an Arsenal fan – he wore their shirt as he murdered his victims – and spoke with a London accent. He had worked as a security guard and for London Underground had a job as an office manager for KFC.

He boasted on his CV that he was good at working under pressure – and was a trained first-aider.

But some in Barking who knew him described his descent into extremism.

A female neighbour said: “He didn’t like it when I was out and about. He didn’t like women. I think he thinks they should be suppressed at home.”

Sky News spoke to a woman who said Butt would stare in a “sinister” way at women out cycling on the estate.

Butt’s own wife wore a full-face veil. They had two young children – a three-year-old and a baby aged about one.

Locals also said Butt had been banned from a mosque for ranting at an imam who urged worshippers to vote in the 2015 general election. He believed democracy was anti-Islamic.

His Whatsapp feed was filled with religious tract.

A former friend said he phoned the anti-terror hotline about Butt in 2015 after seeing how he had become 
radicalised by YouTube videos of US hate preacher Ahmad Musa Jibril.

And mum-of-three Erica Gasparri said she reported Butt to police after he tried to brainwash her son in a park.

Metropolitan Police /PA Wire




Rachid Redouane has also been identified by police


Erica told The Guardian she went to the park to confront Butt after her boy came home and told her: “Mummy, I want to be a Muslim.”

She said Butt told her: “I am ready to do whatever I need to in the name of Allah, including killing my own mother.”

Erica added: “I don’t know how fast I went from the park to the police. I gave them four photos of him and they rang Scotland Yard when I was there. They were very concerned.

“Then I heard nothing. That was two years ago. No one came to me. If they had, this could have been prevented.”

Butt featured heavily in Channel 4 documentary The Jihadis Next Door, where he and other extremists were filmed in Regents Park paying homage to a sinister “black flag of Islam”.

Group leader Mohammed Shamsuddin bragged: “The sharia is coming to the UK – this black flag one day is gonna be on 10 Downing Street.

Andrew Matthews/PA Wire




Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn demanded the PM resign following the attacks.


“Our message is deadly. We are calling for world domination and sharia for the UK.”

Another of the group, Abu Haleema, had contact with a teenage jihadi who wanted to behead a victim in Australia.

There there is no suggestion Haleema or Shamsuddin are linked to the London Bridge attack.

The security services are also investigating links between Butt and two al-Muhajiroun members believed to have gone to Syria to join Isis.

Siddhartha Dhar, known as Jihadi Sid, and 6ft 6in “Jihadi Giant” Mohammed Reza Haque have reportedly become “executioners” who murder the terror gang’s enemies.

One of Butt’s relatives said he also tried to travel to Syria, but that has not been confirmed.

John Stillwell/PA Wire




All 12 arrested by police in London raids have been released without charge
Redouane was a former pastry chef who claimed Moroccan and Libyan descent and had lived in Dublin as well as London. Police identified him from an Irish ID card they found in his pocket.

He also used another name, Rachid Elkhdar, and claimed to be 24.

Redouane’s ex-partner Charisse O’Leary, 38, is among the seven women and five men arrested since the attack.

A neighbour said she threw Redouane out recently, but he returned hours before the terror attack to see his year-old daughter.

Two of the 12 people initially arrested after the murders have been released, but police carried out two new raids yesterday morning.

Armed officers raided an address in Newham and another in Barking, a tyre depot once used as a swingers’ club.

Two suspects were seen being taken into custody. Stun grenades were used in the Barking raid.
_
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...r-london-bridge-terrorist-khuram-10567737.amp

As you can see, it's not as easy as ABC to arrest and prosecute these radical Islamists, not until they are actively preparing an attack or in the process of carrying out the attack. Our laws have many loopholes that prevents security services from putting these guys behind bars (not before they carry out an actual attack , which can then be used as enough prove to prosecute them), I know it sounds crazy since people die in this regard , but that's one of the only way to prosecute and imprison them for good.
Moreover, there are hundreds or even thousands of terror suspects like this that our security services have to keep an eye on. They can't be surveiling them all 24/hrs 7 . Requires a huge amount of resources, manpower etc.

I'm surprised to see delusional Corbyn is now using this to score political points. Him of all people.. Someone who says he is against the government's shoot to kill policy against terrorists(like this case) has the audacity to even question the government's on this issue?



NoOne'sBoy said:


> I watched the documentary. I myself have seen tossers like them on the streets. Never thought they are violent though definitely sick in the head. Looks like that character from Harry Potter who has a long beard. No way in hell anyone can get laid with that look. Not getting pussy can definitely drive a man to the edge I guess.



Ahahahah.......he was married dude. So he had as much p***y as he wanted. Considering that according to many people who knew him, he had very negative view towards women(especially the free independent ones we have here), believing they should be confined home to making babies and taking care of the house(like most radical Islamists believe). 
So I think your point is far off from the truth.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Musafir117

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree. It has more to do with our laws, and also the fact that it's difficult or not post for the police to imprison someone just for some radical islamic views they might have or preach about. So I think @waz is right we need to change our laws. However, there will be alot of upstacles in doing so.
> 
> *Why was monster London Bridge terrorist Khuram Butt allowed to roam free?*
> The savage attacker starred in Channel 4 documentary 'The Jihadis Next Door' waving an Isis-style flag while two members of the public warned police about his extremism.
> 
> 
> BY TOM PETTIFOR
> 22:56, 5 JUN 2017UPDATED17:07, 6 JUN 2017
> _London Bridge murderer Khuram Butt was left free to kill despite being a known Islamist fanatic.
> 
> The extremist had been under policeinvestigation since 2015 and even appeared on a TV programme called The Jihadis Next Door, where he was part of a group who paid homage to a black Isis-style flag in London’s Regent’s Park.
> 
> 
> Butt, named by police yesterday along with accomplice Rashid Redouane,was a known associate of Isis mouthpiece and suspected terror recruiter Anjem Choudary.
> 
> Two members of the public had warned police about Butt’s extremism, and he is suspected of links to two notorious Isis murderers.
> 
> 
> But he remained free. And on Saturday night, he and Redouane killed seven people and injured 49 in a brutal rampage with a third terrorist who has yet to be identified.
> 
> The gang rammed pedestrians with a van on London Bridge then ran amok in Borough Market, hacking and slashing at civilians with knives, before police cut them down in a hail of bullets.
> 
> Mohammed Shafiq, head of the anti-extremism Ramadhan Foundation, said last night: “I am not surprised Butt carried out the attack. There are serious questions for the authorities.
> 
> “Many of us in the Muslim community have been demanding action against these extremists, to no avail.”
> 
> 
> Shafiq said Butt, 27, had been known for years for his links to Choudary’s vile group al-Muhajiroiun, now banned.
> 
> He added: “Choudary, Butt and their group of terrorist sympathisers have been known to authorities, and nothing was done for years.
> 
> “I call for an immediate investigation into what the police knew, what was done and why action was not taken against them.”
> 
> Choudary has been linked to the recruitment of more than 100 British terror suspects.
> 
> Channel 4/Ruckas Pictures
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Butt starred in the Channel 4 documentary
> The UK’s senior anti-terrorism officer, Scotland Yard assistant commissioner Mark Rowley, brushed aside criticism of how Butt’s case was handled. He said he had seen “nothing yet” to suggest that a “poor decision has been made”.
> 
> Rowley confirmed Butt had been known to police and MI5, and that an investigation of him began in 2015.
> 
> But he said the authorities never found any evidence that he was planning an attack, so he was moved into the “lower echelons” of the 500 most active terror investigations.
> 
> Rowley refused to say when the investgation was downgraded. He added: “It’s not a black and white issue but over a period the operation has fallen to the lower echelons.
> 
> “There was no intelligence to suggest this attack was being planned and theinvestigation had been prioritised accordingly.”
> 
> Metropolitan Police /PA Wire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police have released an image of Khuram Shazad Butt
> Rowley said work was continuing to learn more about the attackers and “whether they were assisted or supported by anyone else”.
> 
> Butt was a British citizen whose parents moved here from Pakistan. He lived in Barking, east London.
> 
> Redouane, who was a “clean skin” not known to police, also lived in the area. It’s not known how they met each other.
> 
> Butt was an Arsenal fan – he wore their shirt as he murdered his victims – and spoke with a London accent. He had worked as a security guard and for London Underground had a job as an office manager for KFC.
> 
> He boasted on his CV that he was good at working under pressure – and was a trained first-aider.
> 
> But some in Barking who knew him described his descent into extremism.
> 
> A female neighbour said: “He didn’t like it when I was out and about. He didn’t like women. I think he thinks they should be suppressed at home.”
> 
> Sky News spoke to a woman who said Butt would stare in a “sinister” way at women out cycling on the estate.
> 
> Butt’s own wife wore a full-face veil. They had two young children – a three-year-old and a baby aged about one.
> 
> Locals also said Butt had been banned from a mosque for ranting at an imam who urged worshippers to vote in the 2015 general election. He believed democracy was anti-Islamic.
> 
> His Whatsapp feed was filled with religious tract.
> 
> A former friend said he phoned the anti-terror hotline about Butt in 2015 after seeing how he had become
> radicalised by YouTube videos of US hate preacher Ahmad Musa Jibril.
> 
> And mum-of-three Erica Gasparri said she reported Butt to police after he tried to brainwash her son in a park.
> 
> Metropolitan Police /PA Wire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rachid Redouane has also been identified by police
> 
> 
> Erica told The Guardian she went to the park to confront Butt after her boy came home and told her: “Mummy, I want to be a Muslim.”
> 
> She said Butt told her: “I am ready to do whatever I need to in the name of Allah, including killing my own mother.”
> 
> Erica added: “I don’t know how fast I went from the park to the police. I gave them four photos of him and they rang Scotland Yard when I was there. They were very concerned.
> 
> “Then I heard nothing. That was two years ago. No one came to me. If they had, this could have been prevented.”
> 
> Butt featured heavily in Channel 4 documentary The Jihadis Next Door, where he and other extremists were filmed in Regents Park paying homage to a sinister “black flag of Islam”.
> 
> Group leader Mohammed Shamsuddin bragged: “The sharia is coming to the UK – this black flag one day is gonna be on 10 Downing Street.
> 
> Andrew Matthews/PA Wire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn demanded the PM resign following the attacks.
> 
> 
> “Our message is deadly. We are calling for world domination and sharia for the UK.”
> 
> Another of the group, Abu Haleema, had contact with a teenage jihadi who wanted to behead a victim in Australia.
> 
> There there is no suggestion Haleema or Shamsuddin are linked to the London Bridge attack.
> 
> The security services are also investigating links between Butt and two al-Muhajiroun members believed to have gone to Syria to join Isis.
> 
> Siddhartha Dhar, known as Jihadi Sid, and 6ft 6in “Jihadi Giant” Mohammed Reza Haque have reportedly become “executioners” who murder the terror gang’s enemies.
> 
> One of Butt’s relatives said he also tried to travel to Syria, but that has not been confirmed.
> 
> John Stillwell/PA Wire
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All 12 arrested by police in London raids have been released without charge
> Redouane was a former pastry chef who claimed Moroccan and Libyan descent and had lived in Dublin as well as London. Police identified him from an Irish ID card they found in his pocket.
> 
> He also used another name, Rachid Elkhdar, and claimed to be 24.
> 
> Redouane’s ex-partner Charisse O’Leary, 38, is among the seven women and five men arrested since the attack.
> 
> A neighbour said she threw Redouane out recently, but he returned hours before the terror attack to see his year-old daughter.
> 
> Two of the 12 people initially arrested after the murders have been released, but police carried out two new raids yesterday morning.
> 
> Armed officers raided an address in Newham and another in Barking, a tyre depot once used as a swingers’ club.
> 
> Two suspects were seen being taken into custody. Stun grenades were used in the Barking raid.
> _
> https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.da...r-london-bridge-terrorist-khuram-10567737.amp
> 
> As you can see, it's not as easy as ABC to arrest and prosecute these radical Islamists, not until they are actively preparing an attack or in the process of carrying out the attack. Our laws have many loopholes that prevents security services from putting these guys behind bars (not before they carry out an actual attack , which can then be used as enough prove to prosecute them), I know it sounds crazy since people die in this regard , but that's one of the only way to prosecute and imprison them for good.
> Moreover, there are hundreds or even thousands of terror suspects like this that our security services have to keep an eye on. They can't be surveiling them all 24/hrs 7 . Requires a huge amount of resources, manpower etc.
> 
> I'm surprised to see delusional Corbyn is now using this to score political points. Him of all people.. Someone who says he is against the government's shoot to kill policy against terrorists(like this case) has the audacity to even question the government's on this issue?
> 
> 
> 
> Ahahahah.......he was married dude. So he had as much p***y as he wanted. Considering that according to many people who knew him, he had very negative view towards women(especially the free independent ones we have here), believing they should be confined home to making babies and taking care of the house(like most radical Islamists believe).
> So I think your point is far off from the truth.


There are too many laws to change a lit and put them behind the bars for years. The immigration's law is every where is same to just use " found the individual not suitable in interests of land " and you can deport any scum out of country. Too much democracy sometimes haunt and but no democracy on national interests.


----------



## NoOne'sBoy

mike2000 is back said:


> Ahahahah.......he was married dude. So he had as much p***y as he wanted. Considering that according to many people who knew him, he had very negative view towards women(especially the free independent ones we have here), believing they should be confined home to making babies and taking care of the house(like most radical Islamists believe).
> So I think your point is far off from the truth.


They also believe in that ninja dress thing. Let me guess what happened. This dude married someone without looking at her and ended up regretting for life. That's like buying clothes without knowing how they look like and forced to wear it for the rest of your life. I mean look at that st. Bernardino terrorist. If I had a wife like that I too would go bat shit crazy in no time.


----------



## Vergennes

mike2000 is back said:


> .



What do you think about May's recent comments that she'll scrap or modify human rights laws if they get in the way of stopping terrorists ? Pure electoral opportunism or real will ?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## mike2000 is back

Vergennes said:


> What do you think about May's recent comments that she'll scrap or modify human rights laws if they get in the way of stopping terrorists ? Pure electoral opportunism or real will ?


I think it's both. This is a good opportunity to push for this law when memory of these terrorists attacks is still fresh. This way it will have more chance of passing through parliament. However, I think it will be very difficult to do this, even legally speaking, since even the European convention of human rights which is enshrined in British law is against many of the proposals she wants to bring in regarding deportation.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------

