# Pakistani Punjab and Former East punjab



## Tea addict

Hey guys, few days back i was having a conversation with @PAKISTANFOREVER in the sports section where i said he can compare my state of Haryana,with 15 million population with entire Pakistan in sports if he thinks we are not physically fit for contact sports.
i am a sports fan and i usually watch sports videos on youtube, and yesterday i got a recommended video named
Documentary Film on Pehalwani (Wrestling) in punjab




in that video, i realized that current day Pakistan punjab use to dominate wrestling in punjab before partition, but current day east punjabis( indian punjab , haryana, himachal pradesh ,chandigarh) dominates sports relatively to pakistani punjabis in Professional wrestling,boxing,kabaddi and many more. from this forum i came to know that Punjabis are more prosperous than rest of pakistan, just like the current day indian states of former East Punjab.
So i just wanted to compare current day pakistani punjab and entire East punjab in every aspect , not just sports.
Personally , i believe that current day indian state of punjab is faring well in all aspects, to the extent that it can outmatch all the rest of punjabis, indian and pakistani included in soft power( HDI,songs, world recognition,)
Just some intro
Pakistani Punjab






* • Total Area* 205,344 km2 (79,284 sq mi)
*Population (2015)*
* • Total* 101,391,000 
* • Density* 490/km2 (1,300/sq mi)
East Punjab




Total Area
150361 km2 sq mi( punjab+haryana+himachal pradesh+chandigarh)
total population = 63.4 Million
density=420/km2

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> Hey guys, few days back i was having a conversation with @PAKISTANFOREVER in the sports section where i said he can compare my state of Haryana,with 15 million population with entire Pakistan in sports if he thinks we are not physically fit for contact sports.
> i am a sports fan and i usually watch sports videos on youtube, and yesterday i got a recommended video named
> Documentary Film on Pehalwani (Wrestling) in punjab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> in that video, i realized that current day Pakistan punjab use to dominate wrestling in punjab before partition, but current day east punjabis( indian punjab , haryana, himachal pradesh ,chandigarh) dominates sports relatively to pakistani punjabis in Professional wrestling,boxing,kabaddi and many more. from this forum i came to know that Punjabis are more prosperous than rest of pakistan, just like the current day indian states of former East Punjab.
> So i just wanted to compare current day pakistani punjab and entire East punjab in every aspect , not just sports.
> Personally , i believe that current day indian state of punjab is faring well in all aspects, to the extent that it can outmatch all the rest of punjabis, indian and pakistani included in soft power( HDI,songs, world recognition,)
> Just some intro
> Pakistani Punjab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> * • Total Area* 205,344 km2 (79,284 sq mi)
> *Population (2015)*
> * • Total* 101,391,000
> * • Density* 490/km2 (1,300/sq mi)
> East Punjab
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Total Area
> 150361 km2 sq mi( punjab+haryana+himachal pradesh+chandigarh)
> total population = 6.3 Million
> density=420/km2




Interesting statistic. So the population of indian Punjab is only 6.3 million. Thought it was much more. So that means that only between 0.4-0.5% of indians have any racial or genetic connection with Pakistan. Therefore at least 99.5% of indians are a completely different race to Pakistanis. That is very telling. 

The above aside, I would be FAR MORE interested in knowing how Pakistani Baloch compare to Iranian/Persian Baloch. Balochistan is a shared province between Pakistan and Iran and from the evidence provided by an indian in the above post, Pakistanis have far more in common with the Iranians than we do with indians. 

I take it the Iranian Baloch will be doing better at sports than their Pakistani counterparts as Iran has participated in world cup Football and Pakistan hasn't. And if I remember correctly, there were a number of Iranian Baloch in the 2006 Iran World Cup Football Squad.

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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Interesting statistic. So the population of indian Punjab is only 6.3 million. Thought it was much more. So that means that only between 0.4-0.5% of indians have any racial or genetic connection with Pakistan. Therefore at least 99.5% of indians are a completely different race to Pakistanis. That is very telling.
> 
> The above aside, I would be FAR MORE interested in knowing how Pakistani Baloch compare to Iranian/Persian Baloch. Balochistan is a shared province between Pakistan and Iran and from the evidence provided by an indian in the above post, Pakistanis have far more in common with the Iranians than we do with indians.
> 
> I take it the Iranian Baloch will be doing better at sports than their Pakistani counterparts as Iran has participated in world cup Football and Pakistan hasn't. And if I remember correctly, there were a number of Iranian Baloch in the 2006 Iran World Cup Football Squad.


Edited..its 63.4 million..and i never claimed we got anything to do with you guys..i was just asking for opinions from true punjabis..not someone who consider himself inferior.

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## Mo12

never knew pak punjab is much bigger than india punjab. interesting


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> Edited..its 63.4 million..and i never claimed we got anything to do with you guys..i was just asking for opinions from true punjabis..not someone who consider himself inferior.




Okay. So at least 95% of indians have no racial or genetic connections to Pakistan. Comparing indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab is a non-starter. Since 1947, the demographics, social upheavals and economic factors have completely changed the face of Pakistani Punjab. So much so that it is no longer recognisable to what it was in August 1947. Especially due to the interactions of Pakistani Punjab with the Western and Northern regions of Pakistan whose people have their origins from Central Asia, Afghanistan and Iran. So comparing indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab is as ridiculous as comparing indian Punjab to Jordan, Lebanon, Iran or Turkey. The much older generation of indian Punjab may have common traits with that of the older generation of Pakistani Punjab but all things that were once common to both will die out completely in the next few years.

A more rational & realistic comparison would be to compare the Pakistan sector of Balochistan province to the Iranian sector. How do the Iranian/Persian Baloch compare with their cousins across the border in Pakistan?


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## Matirpola

Punjabis are generally good looking people.
With the Tamil genetic onslaught since '47, have Indian Punjabis started looking different from their western brethren?

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## Tea addict

Mo12 said:


> never knew pak punjab is much bigger than india punjab. interesting


they havent divided their state yet, like we did for haryanvi and pahari speakers. they too have seraki and other liguistic groups.


PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Okay. So at least 95% of indians have no racial or genetic connections to Pakistan. Comparing indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab is a non-starter. Since 1947, the demographics, social upheavals and economic factors have completely changed the face of Pakistani Punjab. So much so that it is no longer recognisable to what it was in August 1947. Especially due to the interactions of Pakistani Punjab with the Western and Northern regions of Pakistan whose people have their origins from Central Asia, Afghanistan and Iran. So comparing indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab is as ridiculous as comparing indian Punjab to Jordan, Lebanon, Iran or Turkey. The much older generation of indian Punjab may have common traits with that of the older generation of Pakistani Punjab but all things that were once common to both will die out completely in the next few years.
> 
> A more rational & realistic comparison would be to compare the Pakistan sector of Balochistan province to the Iranian sector. How do the Iranian/Persian Baloch compare with their cousins across the border in Pakistan?


lol mate how many times i tell you i aint even talking about race or ethnicity, play this we are superior card with someone else..i already know how superior you guys are
iam just comparing changes in the entire punjab, as i said, there are 165 million punjabis in india and pakistan combined, but the indian state of punjab (not entire east punjab), with 28 million people is more known throughout the world and has immense soft power..so current day indian state of punjab is faring very well.



Matirpola said:


> Punjabis are generally good looking people.
> With the Tamil genetic onslaught since '47, have Indian Punjabis started looking different from their western brethren?


lol enthicity..right. mate i know what we are and whose blood flows in our veins..there is a reason for gotra system in north india.we dont need lectures from people who add 4 kilos of brightness in their facebook pictures to look fair.
actually east punjabis built punjab, its literature,its forts, its culture...we were the ones who not only defeated the invaders from the west in punjab but also invaded their land and you guys got those land from british empire.

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## lastofthepatriots




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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> they havent divided their state yet, like we did for haryanvi and pahari speakers. they too have seraki and other liguistic groups.
> 
> lol mate how many times i tell you i aint even talking about race or ethnicity, play this we are superior card with someone else..i already know how superior you guys are
> iam just comparing changes in the entire punjab, as i said, there are 16.5 million punjabis in india and pakistan combined, but the indian state of punjab (not entire east punjab), with 28 million people is more known throughout the world and has immense soft power..so current day indian state of punjab is faring very well.
> 
> 
> lol enthicity..right. mate i know what we are and whose blood flows in our veins..there is a reason for gotra system in north india.we dont need lectures from people who add 4 kilos of brightness in their facebook pictures to look fair.
> actually east punjabis built punjab, its literature,its forts, its culture...we were the ones who not only defeated the invaders from the west in punjab but also invaded their land and you guys got those land from british empire.





No race is superior to another. Every race has it's strong points. Certain peoples/races you are attracted to more than others and have a stronger affinity towards them. That's all.

Superiority and inferiority aside, ground REALITIES cannot be disputed no matter what anyone says on the net. Pakistan is the ONLY nation in the WHOLE history of mankind that has single handedly repulsed & survived an enemy that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. That is a virtually IMPOSSIBLE task that Pakistan has successfully managed to achieve. NO OTHER nation that has ever existed in 5000-10000 years of recorded human history has EVER managed to achieve that feat.

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## Kambojaric

For Punjabis this is what Indian Punjab (eastern Punjab) increasingly seems to look like http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms

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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> No race is superior to another. Every race has it's strong points. Certain peoples/races you are attracted to more than others and have a stronger affinity towards them. That's all.
> 
> Superiority and inferiority aside, ground REALITIES cannot be disputed no matter what anyone says on the net. Pakistan is the ONLY nation in the WHOLE history of mankind that has single handedly repulsed & survived an enemy that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. That is a virtually IMPOSSIBLE task that Pakistan has successfully managed to achieve. NO OTHER nation that has ever existed in 5000-10000 years of recorded human history has EVER managed to achieve that feat.


In the 3 full scale wars, you were never "7 times smaller" to start with..you were three times smaller by population in 1948,65and 71..not our problem if you didn't knew how to use that half of your population..and in those wars, you were the ones getting all the best weapons from West and average Pakistani per capita was 3 times of an indian at that time.
In those wars ,your army had ratio of 1:1.3 troops to india..which is not much considering you got all the latest tech weapons from west.
Even in 2002 stand off 5 lakh indian troops faced 3.5 lakh Pakistani forces.
And at last, the 3 times bigger neighbors, who was dying of starvation at that time..never really wanted to take your country.
I

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> In the 3 full scale wars, you were never "7 times smaller" to start with..you were three times smaller by population in 1948,65and 71..not our problem if you didn't knew how to use that half of your population..and in those wars, you were the ones getting all the best weapons from West and average Pakistani per capita was 3 times of an indian at that time.
> In those wars ,your army had ratio of 1:1.3 troops to india..which is not much considering you got all the latest tech weapons from west.
> Even in 2002 stand off 5 lakh indian troops faced 3.5 lakh Pakistani forces.
> And at last, the 3 times bigger neighbors, who was dying of starvation at that time..never really wanted to take your country.
> I





But then since you have been 7x bigger than Pakistan for nearly 50 years, you still havn't managed to destroy us even though a lot of your people have publicly claimed to wanting to do so.

The western equipment given to us was always limited and had restrictions. Spare parts were denied to us by the West and at crucial times when fighting an enemy many times bigger than us.

Have no idea were you got the figure of india being 3× bigger than Pakistan..............lol.....



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> But then since you have been 7x bigger than Pakistan for nearly 50 years, you still havn't managed to destroy us even though a lot of your people have publicly claimed to wanting to do so.
> 
> The western equipment given to us was always limited and had restrictions. Spare parts were denied to us by the West and at crucial times when fighting an enemy many times bigger than us.
> 
> Have no idea were you got the figure of india being 3× bigger than Pakistan..............lol.....




india may not want to "take" Pakistan but you certainly want to destroy us.


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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> But then since you have been 7x bigger than Pakistan for nearly 50 years, you still havn't managed to destroy us even though a lot of your people have publicly claimed to wanting to do so.
> 
> The western equipment given to us was always limited and had restrictions. Spare parts were denied to us by the West and at crucial times when fighting an enemy many times bigger than us.
> 
> Have no idea were you got the figure of india being 3× bigger than Pakistan..............lol.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> india may not want to "take" Pakistan but you certainly want to destroy us.


We have been bigger 7 times bigger than you from last 45 years and we have came far from where we were back then.. Pakistani percapita was three times that of indian back then and now india has higher per capita than Pakistan.
And more people have claimed to hoist the Islamic flag on red fort than some akhand bhart believers.. personally i would like to even secede some areas like bengal and kerala rather than adding more areas.

The 3 times bigger was the answer to ypur seven times bigger reply, as in all full scale wars, you were 3 times smaller by population,not 7.and even that advantage was covered by having large army and Western weapons.

And you are right, we never want to take Pakistan, we just want to take what is our according to instrument of accession..and that too not in these 2 coming decades for sure...we need to develope a lot economically,socially and morally before taking that..and the second part, if someone is unwilling to give our part , then we have to take it by force, which means destruction of enemy and us..so be it.

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## alwaysfair

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> No race is superior to another. Every race has it's strong points. Certain peoples/races you are attracted to more than others and have a stronger affinity towards them. That's all.
> 
> Superiority and inferiority aside, ground REALITIES cannot be disputed no matter what anyone says on the net. Pakistan is the ONLY nation in the WHOLE history of mankind that has single handedly repulsed & survived an enemy that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. That is a virtually IMPOSSIBLE task that Pakistan has successfully managed to achieve. NO OTHER nation that has ever existed in 5000-10000 years of recorded human history has EVER managed to achieve that feat.



Well their is a small country in the middle east, , with apologies to it , which actually defeated a lot of arab countries , and not only in ISPR communications.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

alwaysfair said:


> Well their is a small country in the middle east, , with apologies to it , which actually defeated a lot of arab countries , and not only in ISPR communications.




Courtesy of unlimited supply of advanced weapons systems, funding, military support, economic support and political support from American and Western Europe. That too against a foe who are highly militarily inept and don't have the humongous external support Israel does. 

When the Israelis can do that ALL by THEMSELVES like Pakistan has done for nearly 70 years then they can talk. No Israeli enemy wants to defeat them because they know they will get nuked by the world's most powerful military should that happen.

Till then the tiny country in the Middle East is only good at killing innocent unarmed Palestinian babies, men, women, children and elderly.



Tea addict said:


> We have been bigger 7 times bigger than you from last 45 years and we have came far from where we were back then.. Pakistani percapita was three times that of indian back then and now india has higher per capita than Pakistan.
> And more people have claimed to hoist the Islamic flag on red fort than some akhand bhart believers.. personally i would like to even secede some areas like bengal and kerala rather than adding more areas.
> 
> The 3 times bigger was the answer to ypur seven times bigger reply, as in all full scale wars, you were 3 times smaller by population,not 7.and even that advantage was covered by having large army and Western weapons.
> 
> And you are right, we never want to take Pakistan, we just want to take what is our according to instrument of accession..and that too not in these 2 coming decades for sure...we need to develope a lot economically,socially and morally before taking that..and the second part, if someone is unwilling to give our part , then we have to take it by force, which means destruction of enemy and us..so be it.




Lol........


Tea addict said:


> We have been bigger 7 times bigger than you from last 45 years and we have came far from where we were back then.. Pakistani percapita was three times that of indian back then and now india has higher per capita than Pakistan.
> And more people have claimed to hoist the Islamic flag on red fort than some akhand bhart believers.. personally i would like to even secede some areas like bengal and kerala rather than adding more areas.
> 
> The 3 times bigger was the answer to ypur seven times bigger reply, as in all full scale wars, you were 3 times smaller by population,not 7.and even that advantage was covered by having large army and Western weapons.
> 
> And you are right, we never want to take Pakistan, we just want to take what is our according to instrument of accession..and that too not in these 2 coming decades for sure...we need to develope a lot economically,socially and morally before taking that..and the second part, if someone is unwilling to give our part , then we have to take it by force, which means destruction of enemy and us..so be it.





Lol......lol........if you think india can take Pakistan sector of Kashmir........lol.

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## Indus Pakistan

Tea addict said:


> we just want to take what is our according to instrument of accession.


Depite being bigger, three times and since 1971* seven times* the fact is you have been bigger and since 1971* massively bigger* why have you not -


taken what is yours according to the Instrument of of Accession?

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## Deadpool

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Pakistan is the ONLY nation in the WHOLE history of mankind that has single handedly repulsed & survived an enemy that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. That is a virtually IMPOSSIBLE task that Pakistan has successfully managed to achieve. NO OTHER nation that has ever existed in 5000-10000 years of recorded human history has EVER managed to achieve that feat.


Pakistan has not survived it.

Pakistan as it existed in 1947 no longer exists. A small part of what WAS Pakistan in 1947(West Pakistan) now CALLS itself just Pakistan. Just because West Pakistan chose to call itself Pakistan does not mean it is the same Pakistan.
It could just as easily have called itself by "xyz-stan" and the end result would have been the same.

India, a much larger and much more stronger nation actually defeated and dismembered Pakistan.
*
The original Pakistan survived from Aug 14, 1947 to 1971 i.e for a period of roughly 24 years* before India succeeded in dismembering was the true Pakistan - as Jinnah gave it to you.

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## alwaysfair

Kapptaan , we do take what we want like the Siachin glacier. 
Our army does not hide behind the coatails of a powerless PM to explain away its failures.

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## Indus Pakistan

alwaysfair said:


> Kapptaan , we do take what we want like the Siachin glacier.
> Our army does not hide behind the coatails of a powerless PM to explain away its failures.


So you took glacier but left rest of it for charity?



Kambojaric said:


> For Punjabis this is what Indian Punjab (eastern Punjab) increasingly seems to look like http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms


So the Sardars are being flooded with Biharis's - with 100s of millions more in reserve in the Gangetic jungles we can look forward to East Punjab changing beyond recognition in a few generations. That will be India's form of sweet revenge for the 1983 Sikh troubles ...

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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Courtesy of unlimited supply of advanced weapons systems, funding, military support, economic support and political support from American and Western Europe. That too against a foe who are highly militarily inept and don't have the humongous external support Israel does.
> 
> When the Israelis can do that ALL by THEMSELVES like Pakistan has done for nearly 70 years then they can talk. No Israeli enemy wants to defeat them because they know they will get nuked by the world's most powerful military should that happen.
> 
> Till then the tiny country in the Middle East is only good at killing innocent unarmed Palestinian babies, men, women, children and elderly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol........
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol......lol........if you think india can take Pakistan sector of Kashmir........lol.


it all starts with a belief


Kaptaan said:


> Depite being bigger, three times and since 1971* seven times* the fact is you have been bigger and since 1971* massively bigger* why have you not -
> 
> 
> taken what is yours according to the Instrument of of Accession?


the reasons could be many, it could be economical like how 1965 war degraded your economical performance which was one of the best in asia at that time.
it could be political that you had supports of major world powers back then .
it could be strategical military reasons, like introduction of nukes.
it could be tactical military reasons, like pakistan is sending and arming mujaheedins which keep india in a defencive stance rather than having a breathing space to think what can be done for larger problems.

i have said it earlier too, i dont want to take that in next 2 decades too, we need to develop a lot economically,socially and morally...after that you need to firm belief and and dedicated people for your cause and things will happen.

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## alwaysfair

"So the Sardars are being flooded with Biharis's - with 100s of millions more we can look forward to East Punjab changing beyond recognition in a few generations. That will be India's form of ....."

Wrong again . Sikhs relations with the hindu community is not like you would like to imagine.
Go to any function in Punjab , whether hosted by a sikh or hindu , you will find a equal no. Of ppl from all communities. I know its a alien concept for you but communities do live with each other without blowing themselves up all the time.

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## Indus Pakistan

Can we have at least have similar scale rather than exploding India.

















Tea addict said:


> the reasons could be many


There are always reasons for everything but fact is nearly 70 years later despite being massively larger including supposedly with those huge guys in Harayana you have failed to take it except a glacier which at that times was not even secured by Pak.

Anyway I look forward to the day when Indian Punjab/Haryana becomes part of Bihar - what with the massive influx of headshakers from Bihar, Orrisa and the rest. Thanks god for the Radcliffe Line !

All the best !

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## Tea addict

Kaptaan said:


> Can we have at least have similar scale rather than exploding India.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There are always reasons for everything but fact is nearly 70 years later despite being massively larger including supposedly with those huge guys in Harayana you have failed to take it except a glacier which at that times was not even secured by Pak.
> 
> Anyway I look forward to the day when Indian Punjab/Haryana becomes part of Bihar - what with the massive influx of headshakers from Bihar, Orrisa and the rest. Thanks god for the Radcliffe Line !
> 
> All the best !


i was in my college bus at that time and could only find that image from my mobile. i will edit and add this image.

there are reasons, and there are solutions.. i have already written all the the reasons and solutions in earlier post in which i quoted you.

and like you, i dont mind people from under developed and with much more population moving to our regions..ethnic majority never mattered to me much..just like in Kashmir case.


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## Indus Pakistan

And this map is of the undived Punjab. Gives us better idea of size.







But the best is this map - below. Gives you a idea of how Indian Punjab is tiny spec in ocean of *bleep, bleep, bleep*. And that is not even takling into account the flood of *bleep, bleep,bleep* into Indian Punjab. Sardars better look out because Indira Gandhi's revenge is sweet.







_*You can include Haryana in the scheme - it still makes little differance._

@PAKISTANFOREVER

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## Tea addict

Kaptaan said:


> And this map is of the undived Punjab. Gives us better idea of size.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the best is this map - below. Gives you a idea of how Indian Punjab is tiny spec in ocean of *bleep, bleep, bleep*. And that is not even takling into account the flood of *bleep, bleep,bleep* into Indian Punjab. Sardars better look out because Indira Gandhi's revenge is sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER


i have included Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Chandigarh and punjab in "East Punjab"...which was divided among haryanvi, pahari and punjabi speakers.

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## Max

Tea addict said:


> indian state of punjab is faring well in all aspects, to the extent that it can outmatch all the rest of punjabis, indian and pakistani included in soft power( HDI,songs, world recognition,)



recognition via Honey singh like chutiya"s, your pathetic kind is painting Punjabis as loud mouth Junglees..

This is True Punjabi singing, not what your pathetic people does...































and what your Punjabi done in sports? Pakistan dominated you in cricket and hockey, two most famous sports of subcontinent..

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## Tea addict

Max said:


> recognition via Honey singh like chutiya"s, your pathetic kind is painting Punjabis as loud mouth Junglees..
> 
> This is True Punjabi singing, not what your pathetic people does...
> 
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> and what your Punjabi done in sports? Pakistan dominated you in cricket and hockey, two most famous sports of subcontinent..


see if you see Haryanvi rappers, you will find them even more pathetic..but the truth is pathetic or whatever, those 28 million punjabis have much more soft power than rest of 150 million combined today.

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## Max

Tea addict said:


> those 28 million punjabis have much more soft power than rest of 150 million combined today.



if you believe so, i consider them kanjar..


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## Indus Pakistan

@Tea addict Did you know that the original definition of Punjab did not include most of Haryana in Punjab for the simple reason that it falls within the Ganges catchment area. Only the region of Indian Punjab flows into the Indus Basin and therfore correctly is Punjab. Further the Sikh Empire never included Haryana in it's terriotory. Most of Ranjit Singhs Empire falls in Pakistan.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Deadpool said:


> Pakistan has not survived it.
> 
> Pakistan as it existed in 1947 no longer exists. A small part of what WAS Pakistan in 1947(West Pakistan) now CALLS itself just Pakistan. Just because West Pakistan chose to call itself Pakistan does not mean it is the same Pakistan.
> It could just as easily have called itself by "xyz-stan" and the end result would have been the same.
> 
> India, a much larger and much more stronger nation actually defeated and dismembered Pakistan.
> *
> The original Pakistan survived from Aug 14, 1947 to 1971 i.e for a period of roughly 24 years* before India succeeded in dismembering was the true Pakistan - as Jinnah gave it to you.




The above insinustion would ONLY be true if bangladesh became a part of india again. The creation of bangladesh was just as inevitable and certain as was the creation of Pakistan. india simply took advantage of this fact in 1971. YOU CANNOT EVER FORM a SINGLE nation from 2 completely different sets of people who differ to eachother in terms or race, genetics, culture, language and heritage. And then are separated by at least 2500 kms. It's IMPOSSIBLE. Pakistan continues to exist as the REAL PAKISTANI race and land still exists. Trying to make a non Pakistani race a part of us doesn't change that fact. If tomorrow the Zulus or Somalians are declared as Pakistanis for about 5 years then decide to form their own nation and seperate form the REAL Pakistan it doesn't mean that Pakistan doesn't exist.

From your rationality, it's like saying india no longer exists as the lands that make up modern day Pakistan & bangladesh were once part of india but are no longer are. Or that Israel no longer exists as it is more than a half time smaller than what it was during King Herod's rule some 2300 years ago. 

Also from your rational, Germany, Russia, Turkey and Austria no longer exists as they don't have all the land they once had over a century ago.



Tea addict said:


> see if you see Haryanvi rappers, you will find them even more pathetic..but the truth is pathetic or whatever, those 28 million punjabis have much more soft power than rest of 150 million combined today.





The mayor of London is a Pakistani Punjabi, Sadiq Khan. London is the best city in the world. Sadiq Khan alone has more power and influence in the world than 28 million indian Punjabis.

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## Tea addict

Max said:


> if you believe so, i consider them kanjar..


you havent seen haryanvis then,we are ultimate level of kanjars by your defination..lol watch Dangal and Sultan.


Kaptaan said:


> @Tea addict Did you know that the original definition of Punjab did not include most of Haryana in Punjab for the simple reason that it falls within the Ganges catchment area. Only the region of Indian Punjab flows into the Indus Basin and therfore correctly is Punjab. Further the Sikh Empire never included Haryana in it's terriotory. Most of Ranjit Singhs Empire falls in Pakistan.


this is the map of sikh empire, haryana at time time was ruled by many Jats and Rajput kings..thats why our language is more realted with Rajputana and West UP.
even in this map almost 30% of haryana is under sikh empire and we have the same group of people like them..hence we were added into punjab.
till last decade , even if you call yourself haryanvi in cities like mumbai, they will refer to you as punjabi.

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## alwaysfair

Tea addict , dont go down the path that he is leading you. As a punjabi , I consider all Indians equal with warts and all. Dont fall for his superirority crap . Even the videos he has attached are punjabi marriage songs , borrowed from non muslim culture of Punjab.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> And this map is of the undived Punjab. Gives us better idea of size.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the best is this map - below. Gives you a idea of how Indian Punjab is tiny spec in ocean of *bleep, bleep, bleep*. And that is not even takling into account the flood of *bleep, bleep,bleep* into Indian Punjab. Sardars better look out because Indira Gandhi's revenge is sweet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _*You can include Haryana in the scheme - it still makes little differance._
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER




Some indian on PDF said only indians from that part of india which is coloured in red above play sport in india.......lol......

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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The mayor of London is a Pakistani Punjabi, Sadiq Khan. London is the best city in the world. Sadiq Khan alone has more power and influence in the world than 28 million indian Punjabis.


i am talking about soft power...the first thing which will come in any foreigner when he hear the word punjab will be related to indian punjab.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> you havent seen haryanvis then,we are ultimate level of kanjars by your defination..lol watch Dangal and Sultan.
> 
> this is the map of sikh empire, haryana at time time was ruled by many Jats and Rajput kings..thats why our language is more realted with Rajputana and West UP.
> even in this map almost 30% of haryana is under sikh empire and we have the same group of people like them..hence we were added into punjab.
> till last decade , even if you call yourself haryanvi in cities like mumbai, they will refer to you as punjabi.




You seem to be an authority on Sikh history. Take it you are a Sikh.



Tea addict said:


> i am talking about soft power...the first thing which will come in any foreigner when he hear the word punjab will be related to indian punjab.




Don't know many people outside of india or Pakistan know what Punjab is.


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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> You seem to be an authority in Sikh history. Take it you are a Sikh.


i am a haryanvi rajput, 20,agnostic and patriot.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Don't know many people outside of india or Pakistan know what Punjab is.


most dont, but few who do, will always picture current indian punjab while they hear the word

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> i am a haryanvi rajput, 20,agnostic and patriot.
> 
> 
> most dont, but few who do, will always picture current indian punjab while they hear the word




But of Sikh heritage I take it?


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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> But of Sikh heritage I take it?


nah, no where near.


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## Indus Pakistan

alwaysfair said:


> Tea addict , dont go down the path that he is leading you. As a punjabi ,


Ha Ha Ha ... What path is this? Tea Addict appreciates good breeding and what is wrong with him being proud of his people. Borders asides I have much respect for his people unlike the junglees further down the Ganges.

Thank you Jinnah for the Radcliffe Line. That electric fencing free of cost is pretty effective at holding the bhai's out.


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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> But of Sikh heritage I take it?


btw rajputs of rajputana were the first one to have Singh as a middle name..not only a punjabi thing.



Kaptaan said:


> Ha Ha Ha ... What path is this? Tea Addict appreciates good breeding and what is wrong with him being proud of his people. Borders asides I have much respect for his people unlike the junglees further down the Ganges.
> 
> Thank you Jinnah for the Radcliffe Line. Those electric fencing free of cost is pretty effective at holding the bhai's out.


nah, i never said i am proud of my ethnicity.. i just said how come 28 million punjabis are much ahead than the rest and came here for pakistani punjabi views..i am part of indic races, just like 75 % of your population.
but i have very few conversation with punjabis in this thread,most is been with a baloch and a pashtun.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> btw rajputs of rajputana were the first one to have Singh as a middle name..not only a punjabi thing.
> 
> 
> nah, i never said i am proud of my ethnicity.. i just said how come 28 million punjabis are much ahead than the rest and came here for pakistani punjabi views..i am part of indic races, just like 75 % of your population.





There is no such thing as "indic races". It's more to do with the fact that our languages are similar and that we were all lumped together by the British. Modern day Pakistanis are by and large racially different to modern day indians.

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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> There is no such thing as "indic races". It's more to do with the fact that our languages are similar and that we were all lumped together by the British. Modern day Pakistanis are by and large racially different to modern day indians.


there are, i believe, and you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.

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## terry5

what a thread


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## Indus Pakistan

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> There is no such thing as "indic races". It's more to do with the fact that our languages are similar and that we were all lumped together by the British. Modern day Pakistanis are by and large racially different to modern day indians.


True. There was a Indian member here who had opened a thread on genetics and that is what in fact was saying. I will see if I can find the thread.

@PAKISTANFOREVER We need to get facts to put this canard of 'us all same' thrown in the bin. If you see research on the subject tag me.

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## Flash_Ninja

Deadpool said:


> Pakistan has not survived it.
> 
> Pakistan as it existed in 1947 no longer exists. A small part of what WAS Pakistan in 1947(West Pakistan) now CALLS itself just Pakistan. Just because West Pakistan chose to call itself Pakistan does not mean it is the same Pakistan.
> It could just as easily have called itself by "xyz-stan" and the end result would have been the same.
> 
> India, a much larger and much more stronger nation actually defeated and dismembered Pakistan.
> *
> The original Pakistan survived from Aug 14, 1947 to 1971 i.e for a period of roughly 24 years* before India succeeded in dismembering was the true Pakistan - as Jinnah gave it to you.




Do you have any common sense?

For one, that's not how nation states work. I know India is barely holding together, but don't project your insecurities onto us.

Secondly, congratulations on losing thousands of soldiers over a petty KGB plot. Indians didn't do shit, except provide transit for the Russians to train geurilla fighters.

Thirdly, Bangladesh was already going to get its independence anyway, it was never really considered a part of Pakistan, and in some aspects was treated like a colony. Of course we all deeply regret losing a part of our country, however they weren't necessarily integral to the two-nation theory, in fact the name Pakistan itself references all the other provinces except Bangladesh.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Tea addict said:


> there are, i believe, and you are free to believe whatever you want to believe.




If there are "indic races" then they make up india not Pakistan. Modern day Pakistanis don't even look like current day indians. I know this for a fact because I have been to Pakistan over 20 times and have lived in London UK ALL my life. In London there countless 1000s of indians. So I have a long experience of seeing both. I'm not someone sitting in the deepest of india devoid of the ground realities.


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## Tea addict

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> If there are "indic races" then they make up india not Pakistan. Modern day Pakistanis don't even look like current day indians. I know this for a fact because I have been to Pakistan over 20 times and have lived in London UK ALL my life. In London there countless 1000s of indians. So I have a long experience of seeing both. I'm not someone sitting in the deepest of india devoid of the ground realities.


the problem is you look everything from the eyes of ethnicity, i dont . i see it through the eyes of civilization,history and shared values.
just like you,i have seen indians in mumbai who think Haryanvis are dominating indian sports is because of genetics...not because of his hard work and firm belief in his goals...who are as wrong as you are.

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## Ross Geller

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> No race is superior to another. Every race has it's strong points. Certain peoples/races you are attracted to more than others and have a stronger affinity towards them. That's all.
> 
> Superiority and inferiority aside, ground REALITIES cannot be disputed no matter what anyone says on the net. Pakistan is the ONLY nation in the WHOLE history of mankind that has single handedly repulsed & survived an enemy that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege. That is a virtually IMPOSSIBLE task that Pakistan has successfully managed to achieve. NO OTHER nation that has ever existed in 5000-10000 years of recorded human history has EVER managed to achieve that feat.


 we already broke your country in two , snatched kashmir , siachin , turtok from you .What else do you want ; need another thrashing ?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Ross Geller said:


> we already broke your country in two , snatched kashmir , siachin , turtok from you .What else do you want ; need another thrashing ?




We already broke your country be creating Pakistan. bangladesh was also created from a broken india yet you failed to make it become a part of your nation again. And there's nothing you can do about it even though you are more than 7x bigger than us and have abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied that privilege 



Ross Geller said:


> we already broke your country in two , snatched kashmir , siachin , turtok from you .What else do you want ; need another thrashing ?





Think you're another one suffering from "lesser man" syndrome so common to your kind:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

http://metro.co.uk/2015/02/28/want-...has-the-biggest-penises-in-the-world-5083922/


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## Ross Geller

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> If there are "indic races" then they make up india not Pakistan. Modern day Pakistanis don't even look like current day indians. I know this for a fact because I have been to Pakistan over 20 times and have lived in London UK ALL my life. In London there countless 1000s of indians. So I have a long experience of seeing both. I'm not someone sitting in the deepest of india devoid of the ground realities.


Stop lying..... You havent seen any indian in real life nor have you ever set foot outside pakistan .I have seen enough pakistanis and they all are far uglier than indians on average . 



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> We already broke your country be creating Pakistan. bangladesh was also created from a broken india yet you failed to make it become a part of your nation again. And there's nothing you can do about it even though you are more than 7x bigger than us and have abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied that privilege
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Think you're another one suffering from "lesser man" syndrome so common to your kind:



The ideology of pakistan has failed . Pakistan was meant to be a home for all muslims of india whether tamil or pakhtun . But pakistanis superiority complex cost you your eastern wing . Soon balochistan will follow .
Whats wrong with you mohammedan pakistanis ? Always talking about human genitalia ....perhaps the holy quran teaches it .
Sorry but uglyass little weanered pakistanis should be the last once talking about penis sizes.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Ross Geller said:


> Stop lying..... You havent seen any indian in real life nor have you ever set foot outside pakistan .I have seen enough pakistanis and they all are far uglier than indians on average .
> 
> 
> 
> The ideology of pakistan has failed . Pakistan was meant to be a home for all muslims of india whether tamil or pakhtun . But pakistanis superiority complex cost you your eastern wing . Soon balochistan will follow .
> Whats wrong with you mohammedan pakistanis ? Always talking about human genitalia ....perhaps the holy quran teaches it .
> Sorry but uglyass little weanered pakistanis should be the last once talking about penis sizes.




You're obviously someone who was banned recently. Yet you still want to come on a Pakistani forum where you and your kind are not welcome. This is due to your severe mental retardation caused by "lesser men syndrome":

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/6161691.stm

http://metro.co.uk/2015/02/28/want-...has-the-biggest-penises-in-the-world-5083922/


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> you havent seen haryanvis then,we are ultimate level of kanjars by your defination..lol watch Dangal and Sultan.
> 
> this is the map of sikh empire, haryana at time time was ruled by many Jats and Rajput kings..thats why our language is more realted with Rajputana and West UP.
> even in this map almost 30% of haryana is under sikh empire and we have the same group of people like them..hence we were added into punjab.
> till last decade , even if you call yourself haryanvi in cities like mumbai, they will refer to you as punjabi.



This doesn't make sense since Haryanvis are not punjabi speakers. Not even one of those who speak punjabi like language like Himachalis. Haryanavis have many similarities with people of western UP culture and language wise. Don't pay much attention to British drawn lines, they couldn't care less about languages or ethnicity.

Many Haryanvi muslims migrated to Pakistan punjab and people don't call them punjabi like for examples muslims of east punjab. But these Haryanvi muslims kept distinct identity compared to urdu speakers and still speak rangri/haryanvi.

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## punit

Kaptaan said:


> Ha Ha Ha ... What path is this? Tea Addict appreciates good breeding and what is wrong with him being proud of his people. Borders asides I have much respect for his people unlike the junglees further down the Ganges.
> 
> Thank you Jinnah for the Radcliffe Line. That electric fencing free of cost is pretty effective at holding the bhai's out.


dont worry there are enough ganga land muslim in Pakistan to whoop ur sorry *** of your type !! by the way Urdu is product is same ganga land !


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## Mentee

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Have no idea were you got the figure of india being 3× bigger than Pakistan..............lol.....



In land mass ? Btw Indian rajputs may claim to be part of the I.v.c but for the other 95% Indian ethnicities I don't think so


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## SarthakGanguly

Matirpola said:


> Punjabis are generally good looking people.
> With the Tamil genetic onslaught since '47


And then spoke a BDeshi.  With an ethnic slur/joke.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Mentee said:


> In land mass ? Btw Indian rajputs may claim to be part of the I.v.c but for the other 95% Indian ethnicities I don't think so




But the indian population is at least 7x bigger than Pakistan's.

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## Indus Pakistan

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The mayor of London is a Pakistani Punjabi, Sadiq Khan. London is the best city in the world. Sadiq Khan alone has more power and influence in the world than 28 million indian Punjabis.


You forgot to remind him that -

One singer - Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan has more pull and name in the West then all the nigger lovin Sikh Rappers.

And for sheer gravitas honourable Punjabi (Pashtun ethnicity) Imran Khan has more gravitas in the West than all the turban wearers combined.

And for sheer punching power in the West Amir Khan the boxer has KO'ed all the Kirpan army combined.


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## SarthakGanguly

Kaptaan said:


> You forgot to remid him that -
> 
> One singer - Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan has more pull and name in the West then all the nigger lovin Sikh Rappers.
> 
> And for sheer gravitas honourable Punjabi (Pashtun ethnicity) Imran Khan has more gravitas in the West than all the turban wearers combined.
> 
> And for sheer punching power in the West Amir Khan the boxer has KO'ed all the Kirpan army combined.


What good did Sadiq Khan do to Pakistan? Aside from boosting your race filled ubermensch ego. 

In the end - Punjabi language, culture and way of life flourishes here. Something that you are too cursed to experience in your land.

This post is one of the most disgusting posts of a wannabe 'secularist' 'liberal' I have ever seen.

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## Ross Geller

Mentee said:


> In land mass ? Btw Indian rajputs may claim to be part of the I.v.c but for the other 95% Indian ethnicities I don't think so


There are more ivc sites in india than in pak and hence more indians who can claim ivc then pakistanis



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> But the indian population is at least 7x bigger than Pakistan's.


In 1947 , it was 10 times bigger . Soon it will be less than 5x as pakistans birth rate stays much higher than india's


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## Tea addict

Mentee said:


> In land mass ? Btw Indian rajputs may claim to be part of the I.v.c but for the other 95% Indian ethnicities I don't think so


Every rajput is indian only.. maybe you got some in your thar.


SarthakGanguly said:


> This post is one of the most disgusting posts of a wannabe 'secularist' 'liberal' I have ever seen.


How did you get that impression mate? Don't know about being secular liberal or whatever but my kind is not the one being thrown out of their homes many times in centuries..they were the real seculars..hence were thrown down.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> You forgot to remind him that -
> 
> One singer - Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan has more pull and name in the West then all the nigger lovin Sikh Rappers.
> 
> And for sheer gravitas honourable Punjabi (Pashtun ethnicity) Imran Khan has more gravitas in the West than all the turban wearers combined.
> 
> And for sheer punching power in the West Amir Khan the boxer has KO'ed all the Kirpan army combined.





Not to mention that the mayor of London which is the most powerful and best city in the world is Sadiq Khan, a Pakistani Punjabi.

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## Indus Pakistan

SarthakGanguly said:


> 'secularist' 'liberal


"Differant horses for courses". This is PDF not British univerisity debating society. Meat Samosas sell well in Muslim areas and veggies Samosas would do better in Hindu areas ....

Get the drift ?

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> This doesn't make sense since Haryanvis are not punjabi speakers. Not even one of those who speak punjabi like language like Himachalis. Haryanavis have many similarities with people of western UP culture and language wise. Don't pay much attention to British drawn lines, they couldn't care less about languages or ethnicity.
> 
> Many Haryanvi muslims migrated to Pakistan punjab and people don't call them punjabi like for examples muslims of east punjab. But these Haryanvi muslims kept distinct identity compared to urdu speakers and still speak rangri/haryanvi.


Its true that haryanvis dont speak punjabis, but neither do your serakis.they still are punjabis.
And good if ranghars still call themselves rangar not Punjabi, ego is part of haryanvi trait..good thing they haven't lost it yet

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## SarthakGanguly

Mentee said:


> In land mass ? Btw Indian rajputs may claim to be part of the I.v.c but for the other 95% Indian ethnicities I don't think so


It requires some intelligence to understand this, and it is likely that you will be unable to get this - but race is not tied to a civilization. You are trained in the Two Nation Theory - stick to that (religion). That's your forte. Trying to widen the bag and put race to justify your bigotry is not necessary.

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## Mentee

Ross Geller said:


> There are more ivc sites in india than in pak and hence more indians who can claim ivc then pakistanis


Yeah last time I checked river Indus flows through the plains of ganga and it also takes prime i.v.c sites mohinjodharo and harrapa ,which are well inside Pakistan , for a ferry ride there every now and then

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## Tea addict

I wanted Punjabi opinions but got very few, all iam getting is a baloch guy, a pashtun guy and rest of my indian fellow questioning my allegiance because i was asking for opinion from the people whose society have faced similar decline like mine in term of soft power

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## Mentee

SarthakGanguly said:


> It requires some intelligence to understand this, and it is likely that you will be unable to get this - but race is not tied to a civilization. You are trained in the Two Nation Theory - stick to that (religion). That's your forte. Trying to widen the bag and put race to justify your bigotry is not necessary.


By that logic Christian Greeks and Italians and Muslim Iranian Iraqis and Egyptians should be barred from claiming any achievements of their past civilizations----

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## SarthakGanguly

Mentee said:


> By that logic Christian Greeks and Italians and Muslim Iranian Iraqis and Egyptians should be barred from claiming any right to their past civilizations----


No. You have your rights. But you don't have the right to deny the rights to other people who are a living embodiment of the same rights. 

Not that your posts (or mine) matter.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

SarthakGanguly said:


> What good did Sadiq Khan do to Pakistan? Aside from boosting your race filled ubermensch ego.
> 
> In the end - Punjabi language, culture and way of life flourishes here. Something that you are too cursed to experience in your land.
> 
> This post is one of the most disgusting posts of a wannabe 'secularist' 'liberal' I have ever seen.




Sadiq Khan has acted as a good middle man between the British government and the Pakistani establishment. He has helped promote CPEC, trade and other diplomatic initiatives between the UK and Pakistan. He has been far more successful in this regard than any Pakistani politician.

Also, Sadiq Khan has helped and boosted the careers many aspiring UK politicians of Pakistani heritage. He had raised their profile immensely. 

Sadiq Khan has helped improve the London economy and the living standard of the most vulnerable Londoners. He is doing a brilliant job for London, UK and Pakistan. 

Being the mayor of the world's most powerful and best city makes you one of the most powerful and influential men in the West and hence the World.

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## Ross Geller

Mentee said:


> Yeah last time I checked river Indus flow through the plains of ganga and it also takes prime i.v.c sites mohinjodharo and harrapa ,which are well inside Pakistan , for a ferry ride there every now and then


Plains of ganga and indus are not seperate . Its indo - gangetic plain that stretches from pak punjab in the west to assam in the east . 
Mohenjodaro and harappa are not really primest ivc sites . They are considered so because they were discovered first . IVC sites like lothal , rakhigarhi and kalibangan are equally prominent if not more . Rakhigarhi is actually the largest IVC site . Just google which country are most ivc sites located in and it will clear your misconception that pakistan has more claim on IVC when it clearly doesn't .

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## Tea addict

Mentee said:


> In land mass ? Btw Indian rajputs may claim to be part of the I.v.c but for the other 95% Indian ethnicities I don't think so


Every rajput is an indian, any rajput who is not a son of mother india, is not a rajput by default.

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## Indus Pakistan

@PAKISTANFOREVER Going to send you a PM read it.

@PAKISTANFOREVER Can you send me a PM?


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## Tea addict

@SarthakGanguly 
Hey sir you are senior member and i will like to apologize for my earlier comment on your community and its history...you just assumed me to be something which I am not..still sorry.

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## SarthakGanguly

Tea addict said:


> @SarthakGanguly
> Hey sir you are senior member and i will like to apologize for my earlier comment on your community and its history...you just assumed me to be something which I am not..still sorry.


I did not quote you... I don't remember anything about ... anything.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

SarthakGanguly said:


> He must be a genius for having done all that since May. A messiah perhaps. Doing so many things in this short a time.



Perhaps he is. But he was doing a lot of that before he was elected. Especially in regards to helping struggling Londoners. And improving their job prospects and housing. That is why he was elected as Mayor in the 1st place and why a lot of right wing White people even voted for him.

Sajid Javid is a cabinet minister in the UK. He is a key Minister in the UK government. He too is of Pakistani heritage:

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/sajid-javid

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sajid_Javid

Although not known so much outside the UK, Pakistanis in the UK enjoy quite a lot of political power and we have lots of MPs of Pakistani origin here. They have helped the Pakistani nation & cause more than the politicians IN Pakistan.



Kaptaan said:


> @PAKISTANFOREVER Going to send you a PM read it.
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER Can you send me a PM?




Will do bro!


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## Tea addict

SarthakGanguly said:


> I did not quote you... I don't remember anything about ... anything.


The one where you claimed this post is by some secular liberal.


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## SarthakGanguly

Tea addict said:


> The one where you claimed this post is by some secular liberal.


That was to Kaptaan.


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## Tea addict

SarthakGanguly said:


> That was to Kaptaan.


Ok.. sorry for the misunderstanding sir.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> @PAKISTANFOREVER Going to send you a PM read it.
> 
> @PAKISTANFOREVER Can you send me a PM?



Having difficulty in PMing you. You have restrictions on your profile.

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## Indus Pakistan

Mentee said:


> Yeah last time I checked river Indus flows through the plains of ganga and it also takes prime i.v.c sites mohinjodharo and harrapa ,which are well inside Pakistan , for a ferry ride there every now and then


Chuckles. Don't you know Indus goes through all of Indiua in a fairy world. What next? Nile also flows through into the Ganga.



Ross Geller said:


> Its indo - gangetic


You Gangas have joined them together. They are two differant rivers running in opposite directions with Indus emptying into Arabian Sea and Ganga emotying into Bay of Banga.


Indus Basin - All of Pakistan being watered by it and capital Islamabad sat on it.










Ganga Basin - Your capital Delhi is sat in it with your Holy Varanasi being washed with it.

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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Its true that haryanvis dont speak punjabis, but neither do your serakis.they still are punjabis.
> And good if ranghars still call themselves rangar not Punjabi, ego is part of haryanvi trait..good thing they haven't lost it yet



Again I'll give you credit for keeping your language intact but rangri/haryanvi is dialect of hindi like bojpuri. Seraiki is like majhi spoken in central punjab. One can confirm this by looking at videos of seraiki, punjabi, haryanvi, bojpuri on youtube. Only some most north west part of Haryana have some native punjabi speakers because they are punjabi areas which ended up Haryana and should be given back to east punjab.

Also since you're not indian punji thats why not aware of the fact that punjab culture originated in west punjab. Obviosly there was no border back then but most things important to punjab culture have their origins in current day Pak punjab.


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## SarthakGanguly

Kaptaan said:


> Chuckles. Don't you know Indus goes through all of Indiua in a fairy world. What next? Nile also flows through into the Ganga.
> 
> You Gangas have joined them together. They are two differant rivers running in opposite directions with Indus emptying into Arabian Sea and Ganga emotying into Bay of Banga.
> 
> 
> Indus Basin - All of Pakistan being watered by it and capital Islamabad sat on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ganga Basin - Your capital Delhi is sat in it with your Holy Varanasi being washed with it.


You are getting old. 

Sindhu nadi originates from Mount Kailash and Mansaraovar. Totally connected to Dharmic roots.

And you are forgetting OUR cities of Purushapuram, Gilgit, Karachi/Debal, Mithankot - all Hindu religious places.

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Again I'll give you credit for keeping your language intact but rangri/haryanvi is like bojpuri. Seraiki is like majhi spoken in central punjab. One can confirm this by looking at videos of seraiki, punjabi, haryanvi, bojpuri on youtube. Also since you're not indian punji thats why not aware of the fact that punjab culture originated in west punjab. Obviosly there was no border back then but most things important to punjab culture have their origins in current day Pak punjab.


You cant judge any language from YouTube, in YouTube haryanvi is usually spoken as as rough any person can because most people like to see it that way..in movies, in YouTube.. haryanvi is meant only to be rough..for example in last part of this vid, its is spoken very roughly and people like it that way


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## Indus Pakistan

@PAKISTANFOREVER I am going to have less and less time here so I am going to try to sort of build a resource base here with 'bitesized' information bullets that can be used on our friend;ly Gangas. These will be distilled from my experiance with the Gangas over my time here for last few years. I would like to see that carried on and spread out. Your views almost match mine along with few more membes here.

I have concluded that Gangas are the most cheating, lying, decieving cnuts on earth and the only saving grace they have is their numbers - 1,300,000,000. Besides that they have nothing. Just junglees who have lateched on to everything on our land and built up a edifice like parasite on the legacy of our ancestors. say this with of course knowing that there are exceptions but the majority are just Ganga junglees or Dravidian junglees.

Please use the resource I am going to set up. This is more effective use of my time because that way my thinking can hit more minds then wasting my time by arguing with Gangas in every thread. I have heavy work demand on my time so I think this s best way to go forward.



SarthakGanguly said:


> Mount Kailash and Mansaraovar.


In China ~ @Chinese-Dragon

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## SarthakGanguly

Kaptaan said:


> @PAKISTANFOREVER I am going to have less and less time here so I am going to try to sort of build a resource base here with 'bitesized' information bullets that can be used on our friend;ly Gangas. These will be distilled from my experiance with the Gangas over my time here for last few years. I would like to see that carried on and spread out. Your views almost match mine along with few more membes here.
> 
> I have concluded that Gangas are the most cheating, lying, decieving cnuts on earth and the only saving grace they have is their numbers - 1,300,000,000. Besides that they have nothing. Just junglees who have lateched on to everything on our land and built up a edifice like parasite on the legacy of our ancestors. say this with of course knowing that there are exceptions but the majority are just Ganga junglees or Dravidian junglees.
> 
> Please use the resource I am going to set up. This is more effective use of my time because that way my thinking can hit more minds then wasting my time by arguing with Gangas in every thread. I have heavy work demand on my time so I think this s best way to go forward.
> 
> In China ~ @Chinese-Dragon


Your ancestors tried with arms. Your compatriots try with nuke threats. You think you can cut the cultural link of us Indians with Bharatiya Civilization with PDF posts?

Suit yourself.

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## Indus Pakistan

SarthakGanguly said:


> And you are forgetting OUR cities of Purushapuram, Gilgit, Karachi/Debal, Mithankot - all Hindu religious places.


Please don't convert to Christianity or else you will be claiming Rome, Paris, Naples, Washington, Berlin etc

Being follower of a religion does not make you owner of anything. Are you Hindu version of Islamist?



> Old


I am not getting. I have been old for some time.

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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> You cant judge any language from YouTube, in YouTube haryanvi is usually spoken as as rough any person can because most people like to see it that way..in movies, in YouTube.. haryanvi is meant only to be rough..for example in last paft of this vid, its is spoken very roughly and people like it that wayA]



But it's a fact haryanvi is dialect of hindi, that's why it sound similar to bojpuri. You guys are bhaiyas basically. 

_"Haryanvi is an Indo-Aryan language. It is native to the regions of Haryana , Delhi and some part of Rajasthan and Punjab of India. It is written using the Devanagari script. It is also considered to be the northernmost dialect of Hindi. It is similar to Braj Bhasha. and has a ≈60% lexical similarity with Bagri language.[4] It is most widely spoken in the North Indian state of Haryana. The term Haryanvi is also used for people from Haryana."_


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## Tea addict

SarthakGanguly said:


> Your ancestors tried with arms. Your compatriots try with nuke threats. You think you can cut the cultural link of us Indians with Bharatiya Civilization with PDF posts?
> 
> Suit yourself.


That's why i stop quoting them, we can't fix inferiority complex.

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## SarthakGanguly

Tea addict said:


> That's why i stop quoting them, we can't fix inferiority complex.


No. That's only Kaptaan. I don't blame him. He sees Pakistanis in UK. And then he sees Indians. From a liberal background, he is unable to sit atop the Islam stonk viewpoint as easily as Pakistanis in Pakistan are able to. So he goes the race route. 

Ordinary God fearing Pakistanis suffer from superiority complex, not inferiority.

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> But it's a fact haryanvi is dialect of hindi, that's why it sound similar to bojpuri. You guys are bhaiyas basically.
> 
> _"Haryanvi is an Indo-Aryan language. It is native to the regions of Haryana , Delhi and some part of Rajasthan and Punjab of India. It is written using the Devanagari script. It is also considered to be the northernmost dialect of Hindi. It is similar to Braj Bhasha. and has a ≈60% lexical similarity with Bagri language.[4] It is most widely spoken in the North Indian state of Haryana. The term Haryanvi is also used for people from Haryana."_


Bagri language is Rajasthani language mate, btw i am not here to prove who is a superior punjabi.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Bagri language is Rajasthani language mate, btw i am not here to prove who is a superior punjabi.



You are trying to prove Haryanvis isn't hindi dialect which is BS. You guys are related to UP people culture, look and language wise.

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## Tea addict

SarthakGanguly said:


> No. That's only Kaptaan. I don't blame him. He sees Pakistanis in UK. And then he sees Indians. From a liberal background, he is unable to sit atop the Islam stonk viewpoint as easily as Pakistanis in Pakistan are able to. So he goes the race route.
> 
> Ordinary God fearing Pakistanis suffer from superiority complex, not inferiority.


Well they tried their " we have bigger weiner, we are fair and unique race " Crap with me too..all i saw was inferiority.
A person who nees to post a link with dick sizes must be really insecure about his weiner.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> @PAKISTANFOREVER I am going to have less and less time here so I am going to try to sort of build a resource base here with 'bitesized' information bullets that can be used on our friend;ly Gangas. These will be distilled from my experiance with the Gangas over my time here for last few years. I would like to see that carried on and spread out. Your views almost match mine along with few more membes here.
> 
> I have concluded that Gangas are the most cheating, lying, decieving cnuts on earth and the only saving grace they have is their numbers - 1,300,000,000. Besides that they have nothing. Just junglees who have lateched on to everything on our land and built up a edifice like parasite on the legacy of our ancestors. say this with of course knowing that there are exceptions but the majority are just Ganga junglees or Dravidian junglees.
> 
> Please use the resource I am going to set up. This is more effective use of my time because that way my thinking can hit more minds then wasting my time by arguing with Gangas in every thread. I have heavy work demand on my time so I think this s best way to go forward.
> 
> In China ~ @Chinese-Dragon




Bro, I've known this for years. We both know what the truth is. What you have just said is the ABSOLUTE honest truth. Yes, the propensity for these guys to lie, cheat, be extremely dishonest and deceive cannot be matched by any other peoples. If only 10% of what they said was even remotely true then they would be far more advanced than the West, Russia, China & Japan. In fact, I've read posts from some of them who think they actually are......lol.

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## SarthakGanguly

Kaptaan said:


> Are you Hindu version of Islamist?


Nope. I don't consider Hinduism to be the sole path to divinity, nor do I consider Hindu divinity to be the only true God/s.  I have nothing against homosexual people, music, vegetarian food (  ), temples, synagogues, Jews, Sikhs, revealing clothes, foreign cultures etc etc.

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## Rafi

PakistanI Punjab got most of the land, most of the people, our singers, shrines, intellectuals are the best.

Lol sportsmen we got Amir Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar's Younis

PAKISTANI PUNJABI JATT POWER.

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## SarthakGanguly

Tea addict said:


> Well they tried their " we have bigger weiner, we are fair and unique race " Crap with me too..all i saw was inferiority.
> A person who nees to post a link with dick sizes must be really insecure about his weiner.


That must be Pakistanforever. He needs to get laid.


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## Indus Pakistan

save_ghenda said:


> You guys are bhaiyas basically.


Ha Ha Ha .......

PS. Do they shake their heads as violently as the proper bhaiyas?

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> You are trying to prove Haryanvis isn't hindi dialect which is BS. You guys are related to UP people culture, look and language wise.


Lol look at the earlier post of mine..i have clearly said that being a haryanvi i jave more similarities with Rajasthanis, which lies 60 km from my home and from some west UP too far better than some multani guy who is also a punjabi..and i never said haryanvi is a punjabi language, we were divided because of that lol..no haryanvi said that..and i will not comment on look because anyone cam claim to be some greek god look alike here.


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## SarthakGanguly

Kaptaan said:


> Ha Ha Ha .......
> 
> PS. Do they shake their heads as violently as the proper bhaiyas?


Laugh within limits. You don't want to choke on your falling teeth.


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## Tea addict

Rafi said:


> PakistanI Punjab got most of the land, most of the people, our singers, shrines, intellectuals are the best.
> 
> Lol sportsmen we got Amir Khan, Wasim Akram, Waqar's Younis
> 
> PAKISTANI PUNJABI JATT POWER.


Most land and most people?
490 people/km2 density with only 25℅ more area vs 420people/km2 of entire east punjab.
Singers , i wont comment because music is personal taste.
And sportsmens, compare entire Pakistan with my state of haryana only..with only 1.5℅ of indian population.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Most land and most people?
> 490 people/km2 vs 420people/km2 .
> Singers , i wont comment because music is personal taste.
> And sportsmens, compare entire Pakistan with my state of haryana only..with only 1.5℅ of indian population.



Sorry but no one knows about Haryanvi kabaddi wrestlers outside haryana. Don't compare them with Wasim Akram, Shoiab Akhtar, Waqar etc You guys couldn't produce single good fast bowler despite India being obsessive with cricket.

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## Indus Pakistan

@PAKISTANFOREVER ARe you sick of being told that everybody from Peshawar to Patna, from Mardan to Mumbai is the same? You know the 'we are all the same'? For a start all humans are same. The actual differances are minute. A Russian does not have three legs and German two. A Englishman does not have three eyes and the French two.

Well here is a interesting map. Look at it. The interesting fact is that the facts on it 9/10 times correlate with what you see with your eyes in real life. As a rule further you move east or south of Pakistan the differance increases significantly. See the dramatic change in deeper Ganga (east) and Dravidian (south) India








Read this interesting report and this is proper peer reviewed scientific report > http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-gene-fair-skin-spread-across-india

Notice Pakistan and India.

Old thread. Some intersting details in there > https://defence.pk/threads/genetic-journey-of-a-pakistani.50411/

@PAKISTANFOREVER @DESERT FIGHTER

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tea addict said:


> Its true that haryanvis dont speak punjabis, but neither do your serakis.they still are punjabis.
> And good if ranghars still call themselves rangar not Punjabi, ego is part of haryanvi trait..good thing they haven't lost it yet



Lol... You haryanvi speak a dialect of Hindi.

Serikis speak a dialect of panjabi ..

Serieki song

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Sorry but no one knows about Haryanvi sportsmen outside haryana. Don't compare them with Wasim Akram, Shoiab Akhtar, Waqar etc You guys couldn't produce single good fast bowler despite India being obsessive with cricket.


That no one only exists in your mind because forget about cricket sportsmens, veey few people outside the subcontinent and few countries even know what is cricket.
Haryana is a state which can take on both pakistan and rest of india combined in sports..like it or not.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol... You haryanvi speak a dialect of Hindi.
> 
> Serikis speak a dialect of panjabi ..
> 
> Serieki song


It was better to use @PAKISTANFOREVER account for this yaar, keep this main account fr defence related things only.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tea addict said:


> Every rajput is an indian, any rajput who is not a son of mother india, is not a rajput by default.



Lol.. Raja Hassan Khan was a haryanvi Muslim Rajput .... Today 99% haryanvi Muslims and Muslim Rajputs live in Pak.. I actually know a few.

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## SarthakGanguly

Kaptaan said:


> @PAKISTANFOREVER ARe you sick of being told that everybody from Peshawar to Patna, from Mardan to Mumbai is the same? You know the 'we are all the same'? For a start all humans are same. The actual differances are minute. A Russian does not have three legs and German two. A Englishman does not have three eyes and the French three.
> 
> Well here is a interesting map. Look at it. The interesting fact is that the facts on it 9/0 correlate with what you see with your eyes in real life. As a rule further you move east or south of Pakistan the differance increases significantly. See the dramatic change in deeper Ganga (east) and Dravidian (south) India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read this interesting report and this is proper peer reviewed scientific report > http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-gene-fair-skin-spread-across-india
> 
> Notivce Pakistan and India.
> 
> Old thread. Some intersting details in there > https://defence.pk/threads/genetic-journey-of-a-pakistani.50411/


Aww. From the map it seems clear that Jammu and Kashmir entirely belongs to us. Not so fair skin.
Same with Eastern Sindh.

So this was the Do Qaumi Nazriyaat! Skin color. And we all thought it was religion. 
Much secular.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SarthakGanguly said:


> You are getting old.
> 
> Sindhu nadi originates from Mount Kailash and Mansaraovar. Totally connected to Dharmic roots.
> 
> And you are forgetting OUR cities of Purushapuram, Gilgit, Karachi/Debal, Mithankot - all Hindu religious places.



Lol your cities ?

None of those are Hindu cities jerkoff..

Gilgitis have Buddhist routes ... Karachi was a Baloch fishing village etc.

You are a saffron chaddi from Jammu.

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## Tea addict

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol.. Raja Hassan Khan was a haryanvi Muslim Rajput .... Today 99% haryanvi Muslims and Muslim Rajputs live in Pak.. I actually know a few.


Rajasthani rajputs formed the backbone of mughal armies for a long time..no one remembers them..maharana pratap fought with bhils and baniyas in his army against an army which was 80℅ Rajasthani and Haryanvi rajputs and he is considered a role model for rajput patriotism for land..not caste.


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## SarthakGanguly

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol your cities ?
> 
> None of those are Hindu cities jerkoff..
> 
> Gilgitis have Buddhist routes ... Karachi was a Baloch fishing village etc.
> 
> You are a saffron chaddi from Jammu.


I can be whatever I want to be. Saffron/pink/orange/red chaddi/etc.

All cities were based and built on Dharma. Buddhism is also Dharma. Just as Hinduism is.  Same Karma and Dharma. They are under occupation. Time changes everything. Nothing is permanent.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> That no one only exists in your mind because forget about cricket sportsmens, veey few people outside the subcontinent and few countries even know what is cricket.
> Haryana is a state which can take on both pakistan and rest of india combined in sports..like it or not.



Brother let's not kid our self here, no one outside India knows about any Haryanvi. At least cricketers are famous in dozen or so cricket playing nations. Anyway I'm not interested in mudslinging. I personally have not met any ranghri in Pakistan. I think most of them were settled in south punjab.


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## Tea addict

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lol.. Raja Hassan Khan was a haryanvi Muslim Rajput .... Today 99% haryanvi Muslims and Muslim Rajputs live in Pak.. I actually know a few.


And most mews still live in haryana..very few migrate..we never turned on each other unlike other part of punjab and jammu and that time.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tea addict said:


> That no one only exists in your mind because forget about cricket sportsmens, veey few people outside the subcontinent and few countries even know what is cricket.
> Haryana is a state which can take on both pakistan and rest of india combined in sports..like it or not.
> 
> 
> It was better to use @PAKISTANFOREVER account for this yaar, keep this main account fr defence related things only.




I've been on this forum since a long time .. And Pakforever is a new guy..

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Brother let's not kid our self here, no one outside India knows about any Haryanvi. At least cricketers are famous in dozen or so cricket playing nations. Anyway I'm not interested in mudslinging.


I never said about sportsmens celebrity status..i once said about performance.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tea addict said:


> And most mews still live in haryana..very few migrate..we never turned on each other unlike other part of punjab and jammu and that time.



Jaan dey bhai .. South Panjab is full of ranghars (ranghar Rajputs).. And central Panjab has its fair share of mews and seihgals...

Shyt reminds me of Abdullah Mew .. Our teacher at Lahore garrison academy...(mews aren't Rajput though)... 



save_ghenda said:


> Brother let's not kid our self here, no one outside India knows about any Haryanvi. At least cricketers are famous in dozen or so cricket playing nations. Anyway I'm not interested in mudslinging. I personally have not met any ranghri in Pakistan. I think most of them were settled in south punjab.



Yaar there ar entire villages of ranghars in Panjab.. All immigrants 47.



SarthakGanguly said:


> I can be whatever I want to be. Saffron/pink/orange/red chaddi/etc.
> 
> All cities were based and built on Dharma. Buddhism is also Dharma. Just as Hinduism is.  Same Karma and Dharma. They are under occupation. Time changes everything. Nothing is permanent.



Dharma.karma .. Who cares .. You are just a bitxh ..

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> @PAKISTANFOREVER ARe you sick of being told that everybody from Peshawar to Patna, from Mardan to Mumbai is the same? You know the 'we are all the same'? For a start all humans are same. The actual differances are minute. A Russian does not have three legs and German two. A Englishman does not have three eyes and the French two.
> 
> Well here is a interesting map. Look at it. The interesting fact is that the facts on it 9/0 correlate with what you see with your eyes in real life. As a rule further you move east or south of Pakistan the differance increases significantly. See the dramatic change in deeper Ganga (east) and Dravidian (south) India
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read this interesting report and this is proper peer reviewed scientific report > http://www.popsci.com/article/science/how-gene-fair-skin-spread-across-india
> 
> Notivce Pakistan and India.
> 
> Old thread. Some intersting details in there > https://defence.pk/threads/genetic-journey-of-a-pakistani.50411/




Bro I used to get sick of it but now I find it very amusing. Have you noticed that it's usually indians from india that subscribe to such viewpoints. They have usually never been outside their countries and have never seen Pakistanis en-masse in real life. They'll believe any delusional bollywood fantasy that the indian media propagates. 

TBH, the Russians, Germans, English and Norwegians have FAR MORE in common with eachother racially and genetically compared to someone from Northern and Western Pakistan does with someone from at least 95% of india. If I'm brutally honest with you, at least 30% of Pakistan's population who reside in Western and Northern Pakistan are physically identical to Iranians, Afghans and Southern Turks.The religion is the same and the culture is similar too. The biggest difference is the clothing and language. The difference between us, Iranians, Turks and Afghans is the same difference as that between Russians, Germans and English people. The fact that 60% of Pakistani Punjabis have some sort of connection to at most 2.5% of india's population is an irrelevant and meaningless point. At least 10% of Pakistan's population is Baloch who are racially Iranian/Persian. And Balochistan is a shared province between Pakistan and Iran. That does NOT make Pakistanis Iranians. Just as Punjab doesn't make us indian

I have been to Pakistan over 20 times in 30 years and have lived in London UK my entire life. In London I have seen 1000s of indians. So I know exactly what the TRUTH IS with regards to the HUGE differences between Pakistanis and indians.

If these differences didn't exist then neither would Pakistan, india or bangladesh. For whatever reason there seems to be a POWERFUL desire by some to deny this ground reality. I HAVE NEVER EVER UNDERSTOOD WHY?

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## Tea addict

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Jaan dey bhai .. South Panjab is full of ranghars (ranghar Rajputs).. And central Panjab has its fair share of news and seihgals...
> 
> Shyt reminds me of Abdullah Mew .. Our teacher at Lahore garrison academy...(mews aren't Rajput though)...


Look at the map given by @Kaptaan in second page..it only show muslim majority in 2 districts of haryana, the mewat region.
Mewat region is where all muslim haryanvi rajputs( i consider only some of them) come from. So i said for all mews, not rajputs.
Mews can be surname with roots in that region too.


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## H!TchHiker

Indians really do have some issues..I mean why the bother and put there-self in so much pain just to prove that "We all are same"..Indians and Pakistans are same bla bla..

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Tea addict said:


> Look at the map given by @Kaptaan in second page..it only show muslim majority in 2 districts of haryana, the mewat region.
> Mewat region is where all muslim haryanvi rajputs( i consider only some of them) come from. So i said for all mews, not rajputs.
> Mews can be surname with roots in that region too.



I don't have a dog in this "discussion".. Please continue ... Il just sit back .. Read this shyt and eat my pop corn..


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## SarthakGanguly

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Dharma.karma .. Who cares .. You are just a bitxh ..


We do care. Hindus do. Buddhists do. Sane people do. Rational people do. Peaceful people do. Yoga practitioners do. The World (except much of the Islamic world) does.

That's enough. 

I know these guys did not.





But we do.






In the end - we have the final laugh. 

Om shanti to you. 



H!TchHiker said:


> Indians really do have some issues..I mean why the bother and put there-self in so much pain just to prove that "We all are same"..Indians and Pakistans are same bla bla..


We are NOT the same.

We WERE the same.

You have gone a totally different route, shedding your pre Islamic Dharmic heritage as much as possible. There is very little common between us now. Today. Even that will go.


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## Kabira

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yaar there ar entire villages of ranghars in Panjab.. All immigrants 47.



In Kharian/Gujrat as far as I know only some urdu speaking were given lands according to my mother, they soon all sold it land left for Karachi. My guess is they were from Delhi which used to be part of British punjab. As you moved west of river Chenab hindu/sikh population became less and less in rural areas so not much left for new migrants. Thats why they were settled in south punjab and central punjab to some extent. Rawalpindi being exception because of city with large urban hindu population.

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## Tea addict

H!TchHiker said:


> Indians really do have some issues..I mean why the bother and put there-self in so much pain just to prove that "We all are same"..Indians and Pakistans are same bla bla..


Say where i said in this entire thread that we are same..i just compared current state of different regions of former punjab.. which are faring well compared to rest of south asia but still one region is far ahead..the indian state of punjab.i just asked opinions from all the people from geographical region of former punjab.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

SarthakGanguly said:


> We do care. Hindus do. Buddhists do. Sane people do. Rational people do. Peaceful people do. Yoga practitioners do. The World (except much of the Islamic world) does.
> 
> That's enough.
> 
> I know these guys did not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the end - we have the final laugh.
> 
> Om shanti to you.




Supra.. Hindus committed the worst genocide of Buddhists in South Asia.. And what next you gonna claim to be Pashtun or Hazara .. Bamiyan valley is predominantly Hazara..

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> In Kharian/Gujrat as far as I know only some urdu speaking were given lands according to my mother, they soon all sold it land left for Karachi. My guess is they were from Delhi which used to be part of British punjab. I think as you move west of Chenab hindu/sikh population became less and less in rural areas so not much left for new migrants. Thats why they were settled in south punjab and central punjab to some extent.


The bottom most part of haryana you see, with dak pink and green colour, the only Muslim majority area in that place is mewat. From where most of your ranghars come. But i think they dont call themselves mews now since ego kicks in .


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

SarthakGanguly said:


> We do care. Hindus do. Buddhists do. Sane people do. Rational people do. Peaceful people do. Yoga practitioners do. The World (except much of the Islamic world) does.
> 
> That's enough.
> 
> I know these guys did not.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the end - we have the final laugh.
> 
> Om shanti to you.
> 
> 
> We are NOT the same.
> 
> We WERE the same.
> 
> You have gone a totally different route, shedding your pre Islamic Dharmic heritage as much as possible. There is very little common between us now. Today. Even that will go.




Many millennia ago we were all the same from Africa. But that went. So will the above as you have admitted too. Amen to that.


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## SarthakGanguly

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Supra.. Hindus committed the worst genocide of Buddhists in South Asia..


Of course. In World of Warcraft. 

We only forgot to destroy all evidence of Buddhist stupas and monasteries, forgot to convert them to temples... and in our utmost hate even considered Gautam Buddha as an avatar of Shri Vishnu (one of our our Supreme Devas) and worshiping him to this day... 

And in the end, to sum it up - we invented a new word - Butshikan.  And then gifted it to the Islamic world to malign it. 



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Many millennia ago we were all the same from Africa. But that went. So will the above as you have admitted too. Amen to that.


What happened to good old Adam and Eve?


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## TSA321

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> .


Just a fyi, Sadiq Khan is from a Muhajir background and not Punjabi


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

TSA321 said:


> Just a fyi, Sadiq Khan is from a Muhajir background and not Punjabi




Doesn't matter, he's still a Pakistani and that's all that matters.

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## Rafi

Kaptaan said:


> Ha Ha Ha .......
> 
> PS. Do they shake their heads as violently as the proper bhaiyas?



They shake like Shakin


Tea addict said:


> Most land and most people?
> 490 people/km2 density with only 25℅ more area vs 420people/km2 of entire east punjab.
> Singers , i wont comment because music is personal taste.
> And sportsmens, compare entire Pakistan with my state of haryana only..with only 1.5℅ of indian population.



Haryana is not Punjab and sportsmen Amir Khan is the only boxer out of the whole of South Asia to become a world champion.

There are 100 million Pakistani Punjabies


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## Ross Geller

Kaptaan said:


> You Gangas have joined them together. They are two differant rivers running in opposite directions with Indus emptying into Arabian Sea and Ganga emotying into Bay of Banga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indus Basin - All of Pakistan being watered by it and capital Islamabad sat on it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ganga Basin - Your capital Delhi is sat in it with your Holy Varanasi being washed with it.


You lhandas dont even understand basic geographic terms . What a pity , geography is not taught in your MIT( madarsa institute of terrorism ) . I am not even talking about basins. The plains that the the two rivers have created are joined together/ contiguous forming a single vast plain.







Rafi said:


> Amir Khan is the only boxer out of the whole of South Asia to become a world champion.


Then what is MC Mary Kom ? A kho kho player ? She is five times world champion and is from INDIA


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## Indus Pakistan

Ross Geller said:


> The plains that the the two rivers have created are joined together/ contiguous forming a single vast plain.


I know what a plain is Gangoo. We are talking here about RIVERS. You know those things that water flows along. Indus is a river. A river has it's own basin. That is a region within which all water flows into it. Indus is a separate river with a separate basin from your dirty Ganga. Further it flows into Arabian Sea whereas your Ganga flows into the Banga Sea.

I know you aboriginals have low IQs but even you can understand we are talking about rivers here. *IVC* stands for Indus Valley. That is the Indus Basin. NOT your filthy holy Ganga. Now here is your peeled banana and take a hike up a tree in the Ganga jungle.






_
*It is not Indo-Gangetic Plain Civilization (IGPC)._

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## Ross Geller

Kaptaan said:


> I know what a plain is Gangoo. We are talking here about RIVERS. You know those things that water flows along. Indus is a river. A river has it's own basin. That is a region within which all water flows into it. Indus is a separate river with a separate basin from your dirty Ganga. Further it flows into Arabian Sea whereas your Ganga flows into the Banga Sea.
> 
> I know you aboriginals have low IQs but even you can understand we are talking about rivers here. *IVC* stands for Indus Valley. That is the Indus Basin. NOT your filthy holy Ganga. Now here is your peeled banana and take a hike up a tree in the Ganga jungle.
> 
> 
> _
> *It is not Indo-Gangetic Plain Civilization (IGPC)._


Low IQ lhandoo , I am talking plains not river basins or civilizations. Gosh , you monkeys are stupid .I know what a basin is .When did I deny that these two rivers have seperate basins ? You f*cking imagining stuff now ? Who the hell made you a think tank . Indus' catchment area covers four Indian states completely and at least four of them partially anyway.

"Your ganga"? Nigga , both Indus and Ganga are ours !! Lol what is banga sea ? Oh , I forgot geography is not taught in your madarsa ! Did you major in suicide bombing or what?
You go stick a banana up yours and blow yourself in a karachi marketplace stupid baboon.
There are more IVC sites in India than in pakistan my inferior baboonoid friend.


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## Tea addict

Rafi said:


> They shake like Shakin
> 
> 
> Haryana is not Punjab and sportsmen Amir Khan is the only boxer out of the whole of South Asia to become a world champion.
> 
> There are 100 million Pakistani Punjabies


If there are 100 million Pakistani punjabis with serakis and multanis included then there are 60.4 million punjabis with haryana and himachal included.
And as i said,compare my state of haryana with your entire Pakistan still we win..


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## H!TchHiker

Kaptaan said:


> I know what a plain is Gangoo. We are talking here about RIVERS. You know those things that water flows along. Indus is a river. A river has it's own basin. That is a region within which all water flows into it. Indus is a separate river with a separate basin from your dirty Ganga. Further it flows into Arabian Sea whereas your Ganga flows into the Banga Sea.
> 
> I know you aboriginals have low IQs but even you can understand we are talking about rivers here. *IVC* stands for Indus Valley. That is the Indus Basin. NOT your filthy holy Ganga. Now here is your peeled banana and take a hike up a tree in the Ganga jungle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _
> *It is not Indo-Gangetic Plain Civilization (IGPC)._


..Morning laugh .. *''peeled banana and take a hike up a tree in the Ganga jungle"*

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## Bharat Muslim

Kaptaan said:


> You forgot to remind him that -
> 
> One singer - Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan has more pull and name in the West then all the nigger lovin Sikh Rappers.
> 
> And for sheer gravitas honourable Punjabi (Pashtun ethnicity) Imran Khan has more gravitas in the West than all the turban wearers combined.
> 
> And for sheer punching power in the West Amir Khan the boxer has KO'ed all the Kirpan army combined.


@PAKISTANFOREVER 

What am I reading? I always thought Pakistanis regarded Indian Punjabis more so the Sikh Punjabis as there own. But this post... 'Sun has risen from the West'.


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## ghazi52

*Duleep Singh - The Last Maharaja Of Takht- E- Lahore*







Maharaja Duleep Singh (also known as Dalip Singh), the last Sikh sovereign of the Punjab, was born at Lahore on 6 September 1838, the youngest son of Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

On 18 September 1843, at the age of five, he was, after the murder of Maharaja Sher Singh, proclaimed Maharaja of the Punjab with his mother, MaharanI Jind Kaur, as his Regent. But in December 1846, after the First Anglo-Sikh War, she was replaced by a British Resident and imprisoned. Mother and son were not allowed to meet again for thirteen and a half years. In April 1849 ten year old Duleep was put in the care of Dr John Login.

On 19 April 1854, the Maharaja and his party sailed for England where they reached in May 1854. In England Maharaja Duleep Singh lived in the first instance with the Login family and was presented to Queen Victoria who took very favourably to him. In January 1861, Duleep Singh visited India, but was not permitted to come to the Punjab. He halted at Calcutta where his mother, Maharani Jind Kaur, then living in exile at Kathmandu in Nepal, met him after 13 years. Duleep Singh took her to England where she died after about two years later on 1 August 1863. During the last two years of her life, his mother told the Maharaja about his Sikh heritage and the Empire which once had been his to rule.

Maharaja married at the British Consulate at Alexandria in Egypt, on 7 June 1864, Bamba Muller, daughter of a German merchant, Ludwig Muller, and Abysenian Egyptian mother, Sofia.

On his return to England, the Maharaja and Maharani Bamba lived for the first few years at Elveden, a sporting estate, of which the Maharaja had got possession in September 1864. Maharaja Duleep Singh and Maharani Bamba had six children, Victor Albert Jay Duleep Singh, Fredrick Victor Duleep Singh, Bamba Sofia Jindan Duleep Singh, Catherine Hilda Duleep Singh, Sofia Alexandra Duleep Singh and Albert Edward Alexander Duleep Singh, born between the years 1866 and 1979.

Drained financially and destitute of friends, he died in his hotel room in Paris on 22 October 1893. His body was taken to Elveden, England, by his son Prince Victor, where it was interred beside the graves of Prince Frederick and Prince Edward.


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## ghazi52

*After April, 1919 Jallianwala bagh massacre, atrocities towards protestors esp. Sikhs at Kasur Railway station*





Another picture of an Indian tied to a ladder at Kasur railway station being flagged





During the Jalianwala Bagh incident at Amrtisar an uprising started from Lahore, Gujranawala and Kasur - A Martial Law was imposed in these cities - These photographs showing Sepoy flogging, the gallows at Kasur

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## ZenBird

Haryanvis have developed their own culture and language over time due to association with Rajasthan. A Haryanvi Jat is the same genetic stock as a Pakistani or Indian Punjabi Jatt. Separation between people in the subcontinent is not as clear as a couple of posters on this thread believe or pretend to believe. People in the malwa region of Indian Punjab like Patiala speak Punjabi with some words similar to Haryanvi. As you go to Majha in Amritsar for example, language is identical to Lahore except for the religious overtones that we people like to use (Insha Allah vs Sat Sri Akal).

Now to the real question. Who has more soft power? I'd say that it is the Indian Punjabis partly because of the distinct identity of the Sikhs, Bhangra and most important use of Punjabi as a primary language. We identify as Punjabis first and Sikhs/Hindus second and then Indians outside of India.

Who has more actual power? I'd say Pakistani Punjabis because Pakistan is a Punjabi majority state with a powerful army with Punjabis in several important posts.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Bro I used to get sick of it but now I find it very amusing. Have you noticed that it's usually indians from india that subscribe to such viewpoints. They have usually never been outside their countries and have never seen Pakistanis en-masse in real life. They'll believe any delusional bollywood fantasy that the indian media propagates.



I'm sick of being told that and I'm Indian Punjabi lol don't blame you. You shoot yourself in the foot when you say you have 0% in common with Indians. Every Indian from a Tamil to a Punjabi has some DNA in common with every Pakistani from a Pathan to a Punjabi. *However, *degree of similarity is very far in a Tamil to identical in a Punjabi (with another Pakistani Punjabi).


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## Indus Pakistan

CleanWell said:


> Every Indian from a Tamil to a Punjabi has some DNA in common with every Pakistani from a Pathan to a Punjabi. *However, *degree of similarity is very far in a Tamil to identical in a Punjabi (with another Pakistani Punjabi).


And every one you mentioned has some DNA in common with rest of humanity - we are all Homo sapiens. Right?

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## ZenBird

Kaptaan said:


> And every one you mentioned has some DNA in common with rest of humanity - we are all Homo sapiens. Right?



Right but we share some DNA that is unique to the subcontinent.


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## Indus Pakistan

CleanWell said:


> Right but we share some DNA that is unique to the subcontinent.


And what are you trying to drawing at. This is quite normal.

America, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, over 30 countries of Europe, Australia, New Zealand also share unique DNA.


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## ZenBird

Kaptaan said:


> And what are you trying to drawing at. This is quite normal.
> 
> America, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Chile, Colombia, over 30 countries of Europe, Australia, New Zealand also share unique DNA.



I'm not drawing at anything, if you remember our conversation from the other thread I agree with you that Punjabis are different enough to be a separate race from the rest of India. I'm saying it's intellectually dishonest to say we have 0% in common with the rest of subcontinent and gives the Akhand Bharat people ammo to use against "us". We should say that we have enough differences to be classified as a separate race.


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## Indus Pakistan

CleanWell said:


> I'm not drawing at anything, if you remember our conversation from the other thread I agree with you that Punjabis are different enough to be a separate race from the rest of India. I'm saying it's intellectually dishonest to say we have 0% in common with the rest of subcontinent and gives the Akhand Bharat people ammo to use against "us". We should say that we have enough differences to be classified as a separate race.


I think all regions of British India had distinct people - probably more differances then what most Europeans have. Even within Pakistan we have distinct differances let alone all of South Asia.

Just that I don't like this 'we are all the same' because that's sung by those who still can't accept 1947. We are not all the same anymore then all the Europeans are the same. I mean have you ever tried to figure out a Englishman from German, Irish, French? But I can like hell see a Bengali from a Kashmir, a Pashtun from a Tamil from 100 metres range. If we just accepted that we are differant people I think it would help a lot. The problem is made worse by the Islamists because in order for the ummah pipedream to take over they have to erase our differances and make one monlithic entity based around Islam which of course is tripe.

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## Mamluk

CleanWell said:


> Right but we share some DNA that is unique to the subcontinent.



Which DNA? Cough it up.


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## ZenBird

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> Which DNA? Cough it up.



Google Harappa Ancestry project, it has breakdowns by different tribes/castes of the subcontinent.



Kaptaan said:


> I think all regions of British India had distinct people - probably more differances then what most Europeans have. Even within Pakistan we have distinct differances let alone all of South Asia.
> 
> Just that I don't like this 'we are all the same' because that's sung by those who still can't accept 1947. We are not all the same anymore then all the Europeans are the same. I mean have you ever tried to figure out a Englishman from German, Irish, French? But I can like hell see a Bengali from a Kashmir, a Pashtun from a Tamil from 100 metres range. If we just accepted that we are differant people I think it would help a lot. The problem is made worse by the Islamists because in order for the ummah pipedream to take over they have to erase our differances and make one monlithic entity based around Islam which of course is tripe.



Even Europeans can tell the difference between us and a South Indian.

Yep, Islamists on that side, Sikhs and Hindus on this side. For myself, I place my ancestry (Punjabi Jatt) before religion and anything else.

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## Mamluk

CleanWell said:


> Google Harappa Ancestry project, it has breakdowns by different tribes/castes of the subcontinent.



I know everything about that. Tell me which specific DNA starts showing in Tamils or Naga people and ends at Pakistan-Iran border!


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## ZenBird

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> I know everything about that. Tell me which specific DNA starts showing in Tamils or Naga people and ends at Pakistan-Iran border!



The South Indian component is extremely high in Tamils and decreases as you go up North. Punjabis in particular have a very low South Indian component. It doesn't disappear at the Iran Pakistan border but averages about 4% in Iranians. As for Nagas, they have a very high NE Asian component similar to Chinese.

Are you trying to get me to say something? Just say it outright.


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## Indus Pakistan

CleanWell said:


> The South Indian component


I tell you guy's this component is deadly. Even in trace amounts it wrecks the individual. High amounts of course are rampant in South India - less said the better. African's bring something to the genetic table - physical lean bodies but the South Indian has nothing redeaming about it. I have observed Pakistani Christians who display those features and I strongly suspect many are migrants from Deccan during British times. Their souls might be Christian but South India is writ on their faces.

Thanks god for the Radclife Line !


_Ps. Are you Sikh?_

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## Mamluk

CleanWell said:


> The South Indian component is extremely high in Tamils and decreases as you go up North. Punjabis in particular have a very low South Indian component. It doesn't disappear at the Iran Pakistan border but averages about 4% in Iranians. As for Nagas, they have a very high NE Asian component similar to Chinese.
> 
> Are you trying to get me to say something? Just say it outright.



You understand the word UNIQUE that you use so liberally? You said there is some UNIQUE DNA common to only Indians and Pakistanis. Now you are going off on tangents.

Just answer me, which DNA is UNIQUE to Pakistanis and Indians only?!

Just letting the world see through your BS!!



Kaptaan said:


> African's bring something to the genetic table - physical lean bodies but the South Indian has nothing redeaming about it.



Exactly! At least many African ethnicities have structure!


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## ZenBird

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> Just answer me, which DNA is UNIQUE to Pakistanis and Indians only?!
> 
> Just letting the world see through your BS!!



I see, well I said subcontinent not Indians and Pakistanis and I was referring to the South Indian component shown by Hadappa. Even though that component is present in trace amounts outside of the subcontinent, are you doubting that it originated here? I don't know what you have such a chip on your shoulder about.



Kaptaan said:


> I tell you guy's this component is deadly. Even in trace amounts it wrecks the individual. High amounts of course are rampant in South India - less said the better. African's bring something to the genetic table - physical lean bodies but the South Indian has nothing redeaming about it. I have observed Pakistani Christians who display those features and I strongly suspect many are migrants from Deccan during British times. Their souls might be Christian but South India is writ on their faces.
> 
> Thanks god for the Radclife Line !
> 
> 
> _Ps. Are you Sikh?_



haha yeah there is something magical about South Indian DNA, women above thirty lose all semblance of figure and become a walking piece of rubber wrapped in a sari.

Yeah I'm Jatt Sikh with ancestry from Lahore.


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## MadDog

Kaptaan said:


> I think all regions of British India had distinct people - probably more differances then what most Europeans have. Even within Pakistan we have distinct differances let alone all of South Asia.
> 
> Just that I don't like this 'we are all the same' because that's sung by those who still can't accept 1947. We are not all the same anymore then all the Europeans are the same. I mean have you ever tried to figure out a Englishman from German, Irish, French? But I can like hell see a Bengali from a Kashmir, a Pashtun from a Tamil from 100 metres range. If we just accepted that we are differant people I think it would help a lot. The problem is made worse by the Islamists because in order for the ummah pipedream to take over they have to erase our differances and make one monlithic entity based around Islam which of course is tripe.



Exactly Indian as an ethnicity or nation doesn't exist. India is a geographic term comprising of independent ethnic groups.

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## Manidabest

there were may states ... Punjab, Hyderabad, Bengal, etc... Rajputana a region within a region of india


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## Kabira

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> I know everything about that. Tell me which specific DNA starts showing in Tamils or Naga people and ends at Pakistan-Iran border!



Onge  tbh Onge extent to eastern region of Iran but completly absent in western iranians who make majority of Iran population. And onge also shows up in eastern Afghanistan. So this map is pretty accurate if we add eastern areas of Iran near Pak border and eastern Afghanistan.

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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Haryanvis have developed their own culture and language over time due to association with Rajasthan. A Haryanvi Jat is the same genetic stock as a Pakistani or Indian Punjabi Jatt. Separation between people in the subcontinent is not as clear as a couple of posters on this thread believe or pretend to believe. People in the malwa region of Indian Punjab like Patiala speak Punjabi with some words similar to Haryanvi. As you go to Majha in Amritsar for example, language is identical to Lahore except for the religious overtones that we people like to use (Insha Allah vs Sat Sri Akal).
> 
> Now to the real question. Who has more soft power? I'd say that it is the Indian Punjabis partly because of the distinct identity of the Sikhs, Bhangra and most important use of Punjabi as a primary language. We identify as Punjabis first and Sikhs/Hindus second and then Indians outside of India.
> 
> Who has more actual power? I'd say Pakistani Punjabis because Pakistan is a Punjabi majority state with a powerful army with Punjabis in several important posts.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sick of being told that and I'm Indian Punjabi lol don't blame you. You shoot yourself in the foot when you say you have 0% in common with Indians. Every Indian from a Tamil to a Punjabi has some DNA in common with every Pakistani from a Pathan to a Punjabi. *However, *degree of similarity is very far in a Tamil to identical in a Punjabi (with another Pakistani Punjabi).



I know Fawad and mahira were thrown out of bollywood but what happened with pak punjabi singers in east punjab?


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> I know Fawad and mahira were thrown out of bollywood but what happened with pak punjabi singers in east punjab?



Bro Pakistani singers mostly perform in Mumbai not in Punjab. Some Punjabi singers like Lohar perform in Punjab but I doubt they will be performing due to security concerns from recent confrontation. Also this is election year and Khalistanis have been showing up recently, also lots of tension between political parties so security must be already pretty occupied.

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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> I know Fawad and mahira were thrown out of bollywood but what happened with pak punjabi singers in east punjab?



Is there any good Punjabi music coming out of Pakistan recently? Indian Punjabi music is crap nowadays and its just kids singing crappy lyrics about daru, panga or kudian.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Is there any good Punjabi music coming out of Pakistan recently? Indian Punjabi music is crap nowadays and its just kids singing crappy lyrics about daru, panga or kudian.



Coke studio mostly have punjabi songs. Apart from that I don't keep up with punjabi music but many singers keep releasing punjabi songs in Pakistan. Like this one released last week.

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## Kyoto

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Okay. So at least 95% of indians have no racial or genetic connections to Pakistan. Comparing indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab is a non-starter. Since 1947, the demographics, social upheavals and economic factors have completely changed the face of Pakistani Punjab. So much so that it is no longer recognisable to what it was in August 1947. Especially due to the interactions of Pakistani Punjab with the Western and Northern regions of Pakistan whose people have their origins from Central Asia, Afghanistan and Iran. So comparing indian Punjab to Pakistani Punjab is as ridiculous as comparing indian Punjab to Jordan, Lebanon, Iran or Turkey.



Lol Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are similar to other North Indian groups theres no point denying it. Im Pakistani but its quite sad how many of us try to distance ourselves from Indian ancestry. A lot of Pakistani Punjabis are from Pashtun and Kashmiri descent though.

I didnt know Haryana and other states comprised East Punjab as well though. They and Delhiites look quite similar to Pakistani Punjabis.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kyoto said:


> Lol Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are similar to other North Indian groups theres no point denying it. Im Pakistani but its quite sad how many of us try to distance ourselves from Indian ancestry. A lot of Pakistani Punjabis are from Pashtun and Kashmiri descent though.
> 
> I didnt know Haryana and other states comprised East Punjab as well though. They and Delhiites look quite similar to Pakistani Punjabis.




So Pakistanis being racially related to at most 2.5% of indians is proof of indianess....lol ......So what about Pakistani Baloch and Pathan who make up at least 30% of Pakistan's population? They are related to at least 20% of Iranians/ Persians. According to your rational we are Iranian then.......


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## ZenBird

Kyoto said:


> Lol Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are similar to other North Indian groups theres no point denying it. Im Pakistani but its quite sad how many of us try to distance ourselves from Indian ancestry. A lot of Pakistani Punjabis are from Pashtun and Kashmiri descent though.
> 
> I didnt know Haryana and other states comprised East Punjab as well though. They and Delhiites look quite similar to Pakistani Punjabis.



Delhi is full of Punjabis, no wonder they look similar. A lot of them are refugees from Pakistan (lots of Peshwaris and people from Rawalpindi for some reason). Haryanvis are also genetically identical to Punjabis they might even be Punjabis who've adopted a different dialect due to cultural influences. Himachal and Kashmiri people also have similar DNA.

That's where the identicalness ends though and things start getting murkier. Even Rajasthanis have a more South Indian component than Punjabis, people from Bihar/UP have a much higher S Indian component and are missing Caucasian and NE European component found in most Punjabis and the difference keeps increasing as you go South. Also culturally other regions are very different than Punjabis.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> most 2.5%



It's not 2.5% if you take in account the vast Punjabi population settled out of Punjab, Haryanvis and Himachalis. I'd at least double that number.

BTW ki ferrak painda hai? You guys are an Islamic country and over time your culture is going to diverge for better or worse. You already don't speak Punjabi as your first language and it's not accorded first class status in schools. Thank you for keeping Sikh Gurdwaras/history intact though, hope that never changes. The Sikh community is grateful for that.



save_ghenda said:


> I don't keep up with punjabi music



Aww this makes me sad  Are you Punjabi?

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kaptaan said:


> I tell you guy's this component is deadly. Even in trace amounts it wrecks the individual. High amounts of course are rampant in South India - less said the better. African's bring something to the genetic table - physical lean bodies but the South Indian has nothing redeaming about it. I have observed Pakistani Christians who display those features and I strongly suspect many are migrants from Deccan during British times. Their souls might be Christian but South India is writ on their faces.
> 
> Thanks god for the Radclife Line !
> 
> 
> _Ps. Are you Sikh?_





I LOVE this post!!!............lol....lol....... .

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## ZenBird

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> I LOVE this post............lol....lol....... .



I had the same reaction but then people are going to get their underwear in a twist and start calling me Khalistani terrorist.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

CleanWell said:


> Delhi is full of Punjabis, no wonder they look similar. A lot of them are refugees from Pakistan (lots of Peshwaris and people from Rawalpindi for some reason). Haryanvis are also genetically identical to Punjabis they might even be Punjabis who've adopted a different dialect due to cultural influences. Himachal and Kashmiri people also have similar DNA.
> 
> That's where the identicalness ends though and things start getting murkier. Even Rajasthanis have a more South Indian component than Punjabis, people from Bihar/UP have a much higher S Indian component and are missing Caucasian and NE European component found in most Punjabis and the difference keeps increasing as you go South. Also culturally other regions are very different than Punjabis.
> 
> 
> 
> It's not 2.5% if you take in account the vast Punjabi population settled out of Punjab, Haryanvis and Himachalis. I'd at least double that number.
> 
> BTW ki ferrak painda hai? You guys are an Islamic country and over time your culture is going to diverge for better or worse. You already don't speak Punjabi as your first language and it's not accorded first class status in schools. Thank you for keeping Sikh Gurdwaras/history intact though, hope that never changes. The Sikh community is grateful for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Aww this makes me sad  Are you Punjabi?





Okay, let's be extra generous and say 4-5%. That's still a very small minority considering the fact that a large proportion of Pakistanis have a direct racial lineage to around 30-40% of Iranians/Persians. It doesn't make us Iraniasn/Persians anymore than it does make us indians.


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## Hold up

CleanWell said:


> people from Bihar/UP have a much higher S Indian component


I don't know who gave u the authority to talk about us. I don't know about you hindoos but Bihari, UP and West Bengal, Western Bangaladesh Muslims are one racial group and look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to hindoos. South Indian Muslims are of course racially different to tamils, telughus and kannads.


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## ZenBird

Ehtesham96 said:


> I don't know who gave u the authority to talk about us. I don't know about you hindoos but Bihari, UP and West Bengal, Western Bangaladesh Muslims are one racial group and look COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to hindoos. South Indian Muslims are of course racially different to tamils, telughus and kannads.



I don't need your authority to do shit, shoo. They look different because even though they have a high South Indian component it's not as high as an actual South Indian. And I'm not a Hindooooo

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## Kyoto

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> So Pakistanis being racially related to at most 2.5% of indians is proof of indianess....lol ......So what about Pakistani Baloch and Pathan who make up at least 30% of Pakistan's population? They are related to at least 20% of Iranians/ Persians. According to your rational we are Iranian then.......



Yeah Pashtuns and Balochis are mostly Persian/Middle Eastern but Sindhis, Punjabis and even to some extent Kashmiris are related quite strongly to modern North India. I feel like you have some superiority complex towards South Indians. Im not saying we are 'Indian' because India was never a country before 1947 but the majority of Pakistanis and a large minority of Indians do share a lot of culture. 






Pakistani ethnic groups are no doubt more Central Asian and Middle Eastern but most of us are ancestrally rooted in South Asia although I dont know if Afghanistan was counted as South Asia.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kyoto said:


> Yeah Pashtuns and Balochis are mostly Persian/Middle Eastern but Sindhis, Punjabis and even to some extent Kashmiris are related quite strongly to modern North India. I feel like you have some superiority complex towards South Indians. Im not saying we are 'Indian' because India was never a country before 1947 but the majority of Pakistanis and a large minority of Indians do share a lot of culture.
> 
> View attachment 366265
> 
> 
> Pakistani ethnic groups are no doubt more Central Asian and Middle Eastern but most of us are ancestrally rooted in South Asia although I dont know if Afghanistan was counted as South Asia.




And the northern indian groups us Pakistanis have ANY sort of racial connection too is at MOST between 2.5-4% of indian's ENTIRE population. Hardly quintessentially "indian" enough is it?

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## Tea addict

Kyoto said:


> Yeah Pashtuns and Balochis are mostly Persian/Middle Eastern but Sindhis, Punjabis and even to some extent Kashmiris are related quite strongly to modern North India. I feel like you have some superiority complex towards South Indians. Im not saying we are 'Indian' because India was never a country before 1947 but the majority of Pakistanis and a large minority of Indians do share a lot of culture.
> 
> View attachment 366265
> 
> 
> Pakistani ethnic groups are no doubt more Central Asian and Middle Eastern but most of us are ancestrally rooted in South Asia although I dont know if Afghanistan was counted as South Asia.


My post was no where related to ethnicity, but its surprising that UP,which has more population than entire Pakistan has same amount of European as punjabis amd sindhi.



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> And the northern indian groups us Pakistanis have ANY sort of racial connection too is at MOST between 2.5-4% of indian's ENTIRE population. Hardly quintessentially "indian" enough is it?


UP has more population than entire Pakistan, and look at the graph of UP..it doesn't matter this post was for the cultural aspects not ethnic


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## ZenBird

Tea addict said:


> My post was no where related to ethnicity, but its surprising that UP,which has more population than entire Pakistan has same amount of European as punjabis amd sindhi.
> 
> 
> UP has more population than entire Pakistan, and look at the graph of UP..it doesn't matter this post was for the cultural aspects not ethnic



I don't trust that chart, here is the spreadsheet from hadappa

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit#gid=0

If you notice they have a much higher S Indian component.


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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> I don't trust that chart, here is the spreadsheet from hadappa
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit#gid=0
> 
> If you notice they have a much higher S Indian component.


I don't either, but i don't want this post to be headed towards ethnic conversation..so just ignored it

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## ZenBird

Tea addict said:


> I don't either, but i don't want this post to be headed towards ethnic conversation..so just ignored it



With regards to your OP seems Pakistani Punjab GDP per capita is $1200 and Indian Punjab $2000. Haryana is much better at $2919 Seems to back what you are saying. I've always admired Haryana as a Punjabi who has even lived in Ambala and Panchkula. Your leaders are very development focused, infrastructure is much better than Punjab. You're doing great in sports and contributing more to the Army than Punjab.


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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> With regards to your OP seems Pakistani Punjab GDP per capita is $1200 and Indian Punjab $2000. Haryana is much better at $2919 Seems to back what you are saying. I've always admired Haryana as a Punjabi who has even lived in Ambala and Panchkula. Your leaders are very development focused, infrastructure is much better than Punjab. You're doing great in sports and contributing more to the Army than Punjab.


Yes bro, we are faring better in these stats but punjab(indian) has much more soft pwer than us haryanvis.. haryanvi till few years back was considered as language of farmers while every teenagers use to sing punjabi songs.
Although we haryanvis are proud of being a community of farmers,soldiers and sportsmens but still we lack soft power.

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## ZenBird

Tea addict said:


> Yes bro, we are faring better in these stats but punjab(indian) has much more soft pwer than us haryanvis.. haryanvi till few years back was considered as language of farmers while every teenagers use to sing punjabi songs.
> Although we haryanvis are proud of being a community of farmers,soldiers and sportsmens but still we lack soft power.



True, I feel it's mostly due to the influence of Sikhism since our scriptures force kids to regard Punjabi as a first class language due to being written in Punjabi.

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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> True, I feel it's mostly due to the influence of Sikhism since our scriptures force kids to regard Punjabi as a first class language due to being written in Punjabi.


Haryanvis dont consider our language to be second class, lol we are called egoistic because we speak it with too much pride
I was talking about rest of india ,like consider Mumbai..there punjabi represent "cool" and Haryanvi represent "gao wala".
And i am not even talking about how girls find haryanvi language annoying

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## Kabira

Kyoto said:


> Lol Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Punjabis are similar to other North Indian groups theres no point denying it. Im Pakistani but its quite sad how many of us try to distance ourselves from Indian ancestry. A lot of Pakistani Punjabis are from Pashtun and Kashmiri descent though.
> 
> I didnt know Haryana and other states comprised East Punjab as well though. They and Delhiites look quite similar to Pakistani Punjabis.



Yeah muhajirs and punjabis look same. Now seriously majority of people in Delhi are like muhajirs and actual Pakistanis are well aware of how each ethnic group look on "average" in Pakistan unless one is trolling.


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## ZenBird

Tea addict said:


> I was talking about rest of india ,like consider Mumbai..there punjabi represent "cool" and Haryanvi represent "gao wala".



haha I get infuriated when I see these Mumbai/Delhi people butcher the Punjabi language. I doubt girls will find rustic Punjabi any better than Haryanvi.

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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> haha I get infuriated when I see these Mumbai/Delhi people butcher the Punjabi language. I doubt girls will find rustic Punjabi any better than Haryanvi.


That's true, but very few people like to speak punjabi in a pind tone or "rusty" and Punjabi do have some soft power which make it "classy" for most indians... due to Bollywood, bettet music industry and lots of foreign punjabi bringing in talent to punjabi entertainment industry.

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## ZenBird

Tea addict said:


> That's true, but very few people like to speak punjabi in a pind tone or "rusty" and Punjabi do have some soft power which make it "classy" for most indians... due to Bollywood, bettet music industry and lots of foreign punjabi bringing in talent to punjabi entertainment industry.



On that score I think both Indian Punjabis and Haryanvis are doing better than Pakistanis. We both speak our respective languages with pride while Pakistanis seem to be disregarding Punjabi in favor of Urdu.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> With regards to your OP seems Pakistani Punjab GDP per capita is $1200



Pakistan per capita was $1561 for fiscal year 2015-2016, considiring punjab does better then others my guess is Pak punjab per capita will be abour $1800.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1108913/par-performance-pakistans-per-capita-income-rises-slightly-1561/

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## lastofthepatriots

Lmao at these Indians. We speak better Punjabi in Pakistan than these diler medhi bhappa taanu Manu Indian doabis.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> On that score I think both Indian Punjabis and Haryanvis are doing better than Pakistanis. We both speak our respective languages with pride while Pakistanis seem to be disregarding Punjabi in favor of Urdu.



Pakistanis? You mean Pak punjabis and I agree to extent since punjabi in Pak punjab is not part of school curricula yet. But then you will not hear punjabi in Delhi parliament will you? Unlike in Islamabad parliament 






Indian punjabis are on verge on extinction, lets not kid ourselfs. But punjabi will survive in Pakistan till end of times. Sikhs are becoming minority in east punjab.

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## lastofthepatriots

Doabi softer power

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## Mamluk

Tea addict said:


> UP has more population than entire Pakistan, and look at the graph of UP..it doesn't matter this post was for the cultural aspects not ethnic



He is not talking about UP, who are genetically very distant to us. Every Karachiite with UP origin stand out from rest of Pakistanis. Forget UP Hindus who are even darker like their brethren Bihari Bhaiyas.


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## ZenBird

lastofthepatriots said:


> Lmao at these Indians. We speak better Punjabi in Pakistan than these diler medhi bhappa taanu Manu Indian doabis.



Lol jnaab daler mehandi is bhapa from bihar with origins in peshawar. We don't talk like him and make fun of him as well. This wasn't about who speaks better but who uses Punjabi officially. I can make fun of you as well but I won't I respect Pakistani Punjabis.



save_ghenda said:


> Pakistanis? You mean Pak punjabis and I agree to extent since punjabi in Pak punjab is not part of school curricula yet. But then you will not hear punjabi in Delhi parliament will you? Unlike in Islamabad parliament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian punjabis are on verge on extinction, lets not kid ourselfs. But punjabi will survive in Pakistan till end of times. Sikhs are becoming minority in east punjab.



Punjabi won't die here until Sikhs are there. Our scriptures are written in Punjabi


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> Pakistanis? You mean Pak punjabis and I agree to extent since punjabi in Pak punjab is not part of school curricula yet. But then you will not hear punjabi in Delhi parliament will you? Unlike in Islamabad parliament
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indian punjabis are on verge on extinction, lets not kid ourselfs. But punjabi will survive in Pakistan till end of times. Sikhs are becoming minority in east punjab.



Brother obviously Punjabis can't speak Punjabi in Delhi parliament the rest of India won't be able to understand. Speeches are in English or Hindi. Punjab Parliament is where the fun is at






@save_ghenda @lastofthepatriots 
Don't get me wrong, my intention is not to put down Pakistanis. You guys are doing better in some respects and Indian Punjabis are doing better in others. This thread is for friendly discussion.


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## Kabira

^^Indian punjab GDP^2015 is $47 billion, which mean per capita of of around $1700 with 28 million people. My point was that punjabis make significant population of Pakistan to the point that its not unheard of them speaking punjabi even in national assembly, clearly they are not as ashamed as you're making it sound like. Punjabi songs are mainstream in Pakistan. Even Pak pathans make 15-16% in 1998 census and their share may have increased to 20% now lol While Indian punjab is barely 2%.


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> hey are not as ashamed as you're making it sound like.



Here is my exact quote, I didn't say "ashamed" you did.



CleanWell said:


> Pakistanis seem to be disregarding Punjabi in favor of Urdu.



Anyway it's good that Punjabis talk in their mother tongue, maa boli should be cherished. I obviously don't live in Pakistan so my source of what Pakistani Punjabis think of their language is news articles like

http://www.dawn.com/news/1163311

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/10622/i-speak-punjabi-but-my-kids-might-not/

Also, I've met a group of Pakistanis here who are Punjabi and their language of choice for talking to each other is Urdu. Occasionally, they will burst out in Punjabi if they are angry or upset. Contrast that to Indian Punjabis and we all just speak in Punjabi and feel pride when bhaiyyas scratch their heads and can't understand us.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Here is my exact quote, I didn't say "ashamed" you did.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway it's good that Punjabis talk in their mother tongue, maa boli should be cherished. I obviously don't live in Pakistan so my source of what Pakistani Punjabis think of their language is news articles like
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1163311
> 
> http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/10622/i-speak-punjabi-but-my-kids-might-not/
> 
> Also, I've met a group of Pakistanis here who are Punjabi and their language of choice for talking to each other is Urdu. Occasionally, they will burst out in Punjabi if they are angry or upset. Contrast that to Indian Punjabis and we all just speak in Punjabi and feel pride when bhaiyyas scratch their heads and can't understand us.



You know these article exaggerate to great extent. But its true to some extent because punjabi isn't thought in schools. Were these punjabis from Lahore or Islamabad? 

That Dawn article looks like case of some Pakistanis in Canada trying to keep distinct identity then punjabi which is hijacked by sikhs in Canada. For many people including you going by previous post, Pakistani is punjabi by default anyway.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> ^^Indian punjab GDP^2015 is $47 billion, which mean per capita of of around $1700 with 28 million people. My point was that punjabis make significant population of Pakistan to the point that its not unheard of them speaking punjabi even in national assembly, clearly they are not as ashamed as you're making it sound like. Punjabi songs are mainstream in Pakistan. Even Pak pathans make 15-16% in 1998 census and their share may have increased to 20% now lol While Indian punjab is barely 2%.


By comparison, haryana per capita is 2800$ with 27 million population.
Haryana is doing best in all the former regions of Punjab in terms of many things.







[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> He is not talking about UP, who are genetically very distant to us. Every Karachiite with UP origin stand out from rest of Pakistanis. Forget UP Hindus who are even darker like their brethren Bihari Bhaiyas.


Lol never knew religion make someone dark...


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> By comparison, haryana per capita is 2800$ with 27 million population.
> Haryana is doing best in all the former regions of Punjab in terms of many things.



You know GDP isn't everything. Pakistan have much lower poverty then India according to UN, and Pak punjab even lower. 40% of of Pakistan economy is in black. So Pak punjab is doing better where it counts.












Pak punjab MPI 0.15 vs Indian punjab 0.12 vs Haryana 0.19. Now Pak punjab is much bigger with 100 million population, and some areas like south punjab are poorer. But I bet northen and central punjab have MPI of 0.10 vs Harayana 0.19.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> You know GDP isn't everything. Pakistan have much lower poverty then India according to UN, and Pak punjab even lower. 40% of of Pakistan economy is in black. So Pak punjab is doing better where it counts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pak punjab MPI 0.15 vs Indian punjab 0.12 vs Haryana 0.19. Now Pak punjab is much bigger with 100 million population, and some areas like south punjab are poorer. But I bet northen and central punjab have MPI of 0.10 vs Harayana 0.19.


That .199 figure is old,it was .186 in 2015 and i think it will be less than .175 now....and most of the poors of haryana are migrants coming from different states..its not possible that haryana has far greater MPI than Indian punjab, i have seen both states... recent migration to Haryana may be reason why we lack in MPI, still .175 is not bad for subcontinent standards and with highest per capita.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> That .199 figure is old,it was .186 in 2015 and i think it will be less than .175 now....and most of the poors of haryana are migrants coming from different states..its not possible that haryana has far greater MPI than Indian punjab, i hace seen both states... recent migration to Haryana may be reason why we lack in MPI, still .175 is not bad for subcontinent standards and with highest per capita.



18.6 is from december 2016 report. Pakistan figures from 2014 report. Pak punjab MPI most be 0.13 by now.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> 18.6 is from december 2016 report. Pakistan figures from 2014 report. Pak punjab MPI most be 0.13 by now.


No it is from March 2015,h having problems with posting link, you can google search and most of it are migrants.
And because of slower growth rate of Pakistan, your won't have reduced to .13.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> No it is from March 2015,h having problems with posting link, you can google search and most of it are migrants.
> And because of slower growth rate of Pakistan, your won't have reduced to .13.



Do you have figures for rural Haryana MPI? I bet its much higher. As soon as you go east of punjab mud houses is most common sight in Indian villages. IMO Haryana MPI of 0.199 have to do with more industrialisation of urban areas because overall Harayana MPI is almost as same as Pak punjab rural areas. Pakistan is gradually improving with energy shortages coming to end, expect growt rate of 6% in couple of years. Pak punjab growth will likely be 7%.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Do you have figures for rural Haryana MPI? I bet its much higher. As soon as you go east of punjab mud houses is most common sight in Indian villages. IMO Haryana MPI of 0.199 have to do with more industrialisation of urban areas because overall Harayana MPI is almost as same as Pak punjab rural areas. Pakistan is gradually improving with energy shortages coming to end, expect growt rate of 6% in couple of years. Pak punjab growth will likely be 7%.


.199 is old figure,its .175 now and most of it has to do with migrants coming from poorest regions like bihar here.
And your observation of west to east is wrong in our case,industralization is happening in delhi and its adjacent regions(NCR) ,so east haryana is much more prosperous.
And the only mud houses we have in haryana are for cattlestock and cattles.

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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> .199 is old figure,its .175 now and most of it has to do with migrants coming from poorest regions like bihar here.
> And your observation of west to east is wrong in our case,industralization is happening in delhi and its adjacent regions(NCR) ,so east haryana is much more prosperous.
> And the only mud houses we have in haryana are for cattlestock and cattles.



17.5 is your guess work, just like Pak punjab of 13.0. As far as official figures, for 2014 overall Pakistan MPI was 19.7. Even overall Pak MPI was lower then Haryana 19.9. Overall India MPI is 29.6.

Indian punjab is doing better but if we only include north and cental punjab then it will be similar.


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> Were these punjabis from Lahore or Islamabad?



One of the guys in this group is mainly my friend and he is from Nankana Sahib, another guy is from Lahore.



save_ghenda said:


> For many people including you going by previous post, Pakistani is punjabi by default anyway.



O nai bhrawa, I interchanged the words Pakistani and Punjabi because the title of this thread is specific to Punjab.

I think the average Indian is ignorant of the geography of Pakistan and assumes that it will have as many different subcultures as India. It's the people on these defense forums that research stuff extensively that even know enough about Pakistan to know Punjabis are in substantial population.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> One of the guys in this group is mainly my friend and he is from Nankana Sahib, another guy is from Lahore.
> 
> 
> 
> O nai bhrawa, I interchanged the words Pakistani and Punjabi because the title of this thread is specific to Punjab.
> 
> I think the average Indian is ignorant of the geography of Pakistan and assumes that it will have as many different subcultures as India. It's the people on these defense forums that research stuff extensively that even know enough about Pakistan to know Punjabis are in substantial population.



Lahore? Now it make sense.


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## Tea addict

17.5 is my guess work because it was 18.6 in 2015 , and we have almost 11-14℅ growth, one of the highest in india and you claims you dipped to 13 from 15 in same time with 7-8℅ growth?
@save_ghenda


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> 17.5 is my guess work because it was 18.6 in 2015 , and we have almost 11-14℅ growth, one of the highest in india and you claims you dipped to 13 from 15 in same time with 7-8℅ growth?
> @save_ghenda



gDP have little to do with poverty as proven by UN. Indian gdp isn't reliable indicator after Modi just incresed growth rate by 3% because apparently India was not calculating GDP properly. Anyway before guessing it wait for next UN report on MPI.


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## Kabira

kaala chashma said:


> Indians don't know if pakistan too has a state called Punjab. Outside of India, Punjab is synonymous with Sikhs and India. When one hears someone speaking Punjabi outside of India, first thing they ask if that person is from India.



First thing that will come to their mind will be if he's Pakistani unless in sikh getup. Lets get real here. Punjabis are barely 2% of Indians. Even Brahui in Pakistan have more share in population.

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## Kabira

kaala chashma said:


> They maybe 2% but Indian Punjabis project better softpower. No one in the world would connect Punjabis with pakistan. personal experience dude. Punjabi food, Punjabi language, Punjabi songs, Punjabi dance forms are all synonymous with India.



Stop drinking piss and wake up. First of all no one fucking cares outside, for them you are Indian and we are Pakistanis. Only thing world connect with India is piss drinking gangu telis not 2% community on verge of extinction by gangus.


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> First thing that will come to their mind will be if he's Pakistani unless in sikh getup. Lets get real here. Punjabis are barely 2% of Indians. Even Brahui in Pakistan have more share in population.





kaala chashma said:


> They maybe 2% but Indian Punjabis project better softpower. No one in the world would connect Punjabis with pakistan. personal experience dude. Punjabi food, Punjabi language, Punjabi songs, Punjabi dance forms are all synonymous with India.
> 
> If you name your restaurant 'Punjabi restaurant' in west, 99 percent of the people would assume it to be Indian (of course those who are familiar with Punjab)



Ghenda paaji, gusse kyu hunde ho., If an Indian hears Punjabi he will obviously think this guy is Indian Punjabi, if a Pakistani hears it they will think he is from Pakistan. Of course this applies for non Punjabis. A Punjabi can tell from the dialect and smattering of Urdu or Hindi words. Also I noticed that Pakistani Punjabis don't swear as much as Indian Punjabis?



save_ghenda said:


> 2% community on verge of extinction



You keep saying this again and again. I'm curious why you think Punjabis are going extinct? Yes Sikhs are losing majority because of lower birth rate and immigration of bhaiyyas. But we ain't marrying them or losing our culture, we still plan on being around.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Ghenda paaji, gusse kyu hunde ho., If an Indian hears Punjabi he will obviously think this guy is Indian Punjabi, if a Pakistani hears it they will think he is from Pakistan. Of course this applies for non Punjabis. A Punjabi can tell from the dialect and smattering of Urdu or Hindi words. Also I noticed that Pakistani Punjabis don't swear as much as Indian Punjabis?



True, I meant outsiders/goras couldn't care less since for them we are either Pakistanis or Indians. Maybe things are different in Canada.


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> True, I meant outsiders/goras couldn't care less since for them we are either Pakistanis or Indians. Maybe things are different in Canada.



Na you're right they can't tell we are all brown immigrants invading their homeland


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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> You keep saying this again and again. I'm curious why you think Punjabis are going extinct? Yes Sikhs are losing majority because of lower birth rate and immigration of bhaiyyas. But we ain't marrying them or losing our culture, we still plan on being around.


They are too much obsessed with ethnic majority, hence they have divided their states on ethnic lines too..not linguistic like us.
They don't realise if a punjabi guy still speak punjabi despite living in Mumbai since birth and same is the case with haryanvi, how can we extinct in our our province just because of some migrants.

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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> You keep saying this again and again. I'm curious why you think Punjabis are going extinct? Yes Sikhs are losing majority because of lower birth rate and immigration of bhaiyyas. But we ain't marrying them or losing our culture, we still plan on being around.



Sikhs will be just fine but may become minority in their own state. But its ok since many sikhs live in other Indian states.

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> True, I meant outsiders/goras couldn't care less since for them we are either Pakistanis or Indians. Maybe things are different in Canada.


Most goras won't know what is punjab, but few who do, will relate it to indian punjab..hence i have earlier in this post that indian punjabis with 28 million population has more soft power than the rest of former punjab combined.

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Sikhs will be just fine but may become minority in their own state. But its ok since many sikhs live in other Indian states.


Migrants can be utilized to develope our oen society, for example many people have started property business in noida ncr because of migrants arriving in north india in hordes..same is the case with punjab, the bihari migrants provide cheap labor to the farmers and various other jobs...



kaala chashma said:


> Many foreigners visit Punjab in India, while hardly there is any foreign tourists in Pakistan. This is another reason why foreigners just like rest of the Indians are clueless if there is a state of Punjab in Pakistan as well.


Yes, it is one of the reason. But i think punjabi entertainment industry is the most dominant factor in this soft power... punjabi songs in Bollywood,punjabi language in Bollywood and own punjabi music industry is much better than any other industry from south asia..
Even Pakistani punjabis are the ones who comment the most on indian punjabi songs on YouTube

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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Most goras won't know what is punjab, but few who do, will relate it to indian punjab..hence i have earlier in this post that indian punjabis with 28 million population has more soft power than the rest of former punjab combined.



The dynamics are different, I understand why language and ethnic identity is big deal in east punjab. You will rarely see Pakistani punjabi identifying as punjabi outside Pakistan. For one because of huge population, pak punjabi is likely to come across another pak punjabi before any other Pakistani ethnicity. And outsiders will call you Pakistani anyway.

If Pakistan is divided in small provinces only then one may see sub nationalism. But even then I doubt it will be anything like east punjab.

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> The dynamics are different, I understand why language and ethnic identity is big deal in east punjab. You will rarely see Pakistani punjabi identifying as punjabi outside Pakistan. For one because of huge population, pak punjabi is likely to come across another pak punjabi before any other Pakistani ethnicity. And outsiders will call you Pakistani anyway.
> 
> If Pakistan is divided in small federating only then one may see sub nationalism. But even then I doubt it will be anything like east punjab.


You are the onee who was saying we will extinct because of migrations from UP bihar (350 million people) ..even though from page 1 i have denied this has anything to do with regionalism.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> You are the onee who was saying we will extinct because of migrations from UP bihar (350 million people) ..even though from page 1 i have denied this has anything to do with regionalism.



You will not get extinct because Haryana is extension of UP linguistically and culturally. Haryana, Rajasthaan and UP have same castes including hindu jaats. But punjabis are not hindi speakers yet.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> You will not get extinct because Haryana is extension of UP linguistically and culturally. Haryana, Rajasthaan and UP have same castes including hindu jaats. But punjabis are not hindi speakers yet.


Funny considering a haryanvi can understand punjabi but not bhojpuri..


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Funny considering a haryanvi can understand punjabi but not bhojpuri..



I can understand bojpuri and haryanvi because I can understand hindi/urdu. These are dialects of hindi, what is so funny?


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## Kabira

@CleanWell bro just because Pak punjabis identify as Pakistanis first that doesn't mean they don't speak or want to speak punjabi. Most other Pakistanis also identify as Pakistani first and after that they will tell you place of origin district/city before even province. If you get to know more about them then native language, background etc will come out.

I remember one family from Bawalpur/Punjab who spoke urdu. They first just identified as from Bahwalpur. After some time they told us they migrated from Rajasthan/India before 1947 and that's why they don't speak native tongue of Bawalpur which is seraiki.

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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> @CleanWell bro just because Pak punjabis identify as Pakistanis first that doesn't mean they don't speak or want to speak punjabi. Most other Pakistanis also identify as Pakistani first and after that they will tell you place of origin district/city before even province. If you get to know more about them then native language, background etc will come out.
> 
> I remember one family from Bawalpur/Punjab who spoke urdu. They first just identified as from Bahwalpur. After some time they told us they migrated from Rajasthan/India before 1947 and that's why they don't speak native tongue of Bawalpur which is seraiki.



Yeah that makes sense. As a Sikh, I feel like we identify as Sikhs and Punjabis first and Indians second.

BTW I'm from Majha (parental links to Amritsar and Lahore) and don't feel contemptuous of Malwai or Doabi Punjabi like the guy a few posts back. I like all dialects of Punjabi and they all have their unique words and their own charm. Doabi Punjabi is pretty similar to Majhail Punjabi. Malwai Punjabi starts to be different.



save_ghenda said:


> I can understand bojpuri and haryanvi because I can understand hindi/urdu. These are dialects of hindi, what is so funny?



Haryanvi - it is very hard to understand. I can infer some meanings if spoken very slowly but for the most part I can't. I'd wager that a Haryanvi will have better luck with Punjabi than vice versa.

WRT to Bhojpuri I think you are thinking of Bihari Hindi, I very much doubt you can understand Bhojpuri language bro. It is pretty different

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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Haryanvi - it is very hard to understand. I can infer some meanings if spoken very slowly but for the most part I can't. I'd wager that a Haryanvi will have better luck with Punjabi than vice versa.
> 
> WRT to Bhojpuri I think you are thinking of Bihari Hindi, I very much doubt you can understand Bhojpuri language bro. It is pretty different



haryanvi sound similar to bojpuri hindi






Maybe you're right, Biharis are most useless people on earth. Being on average almost two times poorer then India's average is some feat. Even Pakistan poorest regions rural sindh and rural Balochistan have less poverty then overall Bihar. Its not surprising they have flooded punjab.

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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> haryanvi sound similar to bojpuri hindi
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe you're right, Biharis are most useless people on earth. Being on average almost two times poorer then India's average is some feat. Even Pakistan poorest regions rural sindh and rural Balochistan have less poverty then overall Bihar. Its not surprising they have flooded punjab.



Biharis are cheap labor and are treated like shit in Punjab. The farmers have become soft and don't like doing any work personally. Biharis also bring crime, setup slums and are a general nuisance. However, if they were to all go back Punjab agriculture will fail as all kids are just interested in moving to cities/ immigrating abroad.

Btw, who does the labor in Pakistani Punjabi villages if you don't have bhaiyya?



save_ghenda said:


> haryanvi sound similar to bojpuri hindi



You're going to majorly offend our Haryanvi friend  For me Haryanvi sounds aggressive, masculine. They can't speak softly if their life depended on it. Bhojpuri is.. well bhaiyya boli..


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Biharis are cheap labor and are treated like shit in Punjab. The farmers have become soft and don't like doing any work personally. Biharis also bring crime, setup slums and are a general nuisance. However, if they were to all go back Punjab agriculture will fail as all Katy's are just interested in moving to cities/ immigrating abroad.
> 
> Btw, who does the labor in Pakistani Punjabi villages if you don't have bhaiyya?



I'm from Kharian in Gujrat district. Gujrat MPI is 0.6 and Kharian most be near 0.2 because most people from here have settled in Norway. Most Pakistanis in Norway are from Kharian. Apart from local landless people and after 1980 afghan refugees. Also many local landless people no longer need to work in fields. They move to cities, abroad and in many cases are richer then village zamindars who stay behind. Afghans are hard working and are not known for any crime in our area.

In fact they are bilingual in punjabi and pashto. Its only in Punjab cities where you don't need to learn punjabi and urdu is sufficient.

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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> Afghans are hard working and are not known for any crime in our area.
> 
> In fact they are bilingual in punjabi and pashto. Its only in Punjab cities where you don't need to learn punjabi and urdu is sufficient.



Interesting, how are they treated by Zamindars? Most servants and bhaiyyas are treated like crap in our Punjab which is one thing I don't like.



save_ghenda said:


> Most Pakistanis in Norway are from Kharian



Nice, well met Majha brother. How do you feel about Mirpuris? My Pakistani friend from Lahore hates them with a passion and has the choicest abuses for them. He used to live in UK and said that a large population of them live there and are responsible for crimes and don't even spare Pakistani Punjabis.


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Interesting, how are they treated by Zamindars? Most servants and bhaiyyas are treated like crap in our Punjab which is one thing I don't like.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, well met Majha brother. How do you feel about Mirpuris? My Pakistani friend from Lahore hates them with a passion and has the choicest abuses for them. He used to live in UK and said that a large population of them live there and are responsible for crimes and don't even spare Pakistani Punjabis.



They are not treated like crap, many of them had shops which have been closed down in last couple of years. Afghans are different from biharis. There is a saying here that Afghans will rent house then save enough to buy it lol, they are business minded people. Many got Pakistan national card by illegal means. Corrupt NADRA official who made them part of some family line and those granting them CNIC. Rest are going back slowly.

The same friend who doesn't even speak punjabi? No one hate Mirpuris neither I know much about UK apart from that South/London have more people from Pak punjab and in north more people from Mirpur/AJK.

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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> You're going to majorly offend our Haryanvi friend  For me Haryanvi sounds aggressive, masculine. They can't speak softly if their life depended on it. Bhojpuri is.. well bhaiyya boli..


Lol they can never offend me mate, they have tried to impose their physical superiority complex and when i said my state haryana can take on both india and Pakistan combined in physical sports..they had no answer.

They tried racial crap, but i dont give a singke f*ck if he is .065467645 shade fairer than as far as we surpassed them in every field..and without them migrating to west and gulf, they are no better than biharis. Whom they ridicule for migration.

Now this fella tried linguistic crap,which i have agreed in the op than punjab has got soft power far surpassing anyone in south asia..i am talking about indian punjabi only. The sate which built entire punjab .


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## ZenBird

Tea addict said:


> physical superiority



How can anybody have physical superiority amongst the same genetic pool lol It all boils down to training and infrastructure. There are a couple of major trolls on these forums (not talking about ghenda) and they have both been in full swing on your thread. Unfortunately, defense forums (India or Pak) are just full of jingoistic race baiting people.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Lol they can never offend me mate, they have tried to impose their physical superiority complex and when i said my state haryana can take on both india and Pakistan combined in physical sports..they had no answer.
> 
> They tried racial crap, but i dont give a singke f*ck if he is .065467645 shade fairer than as far as we surpassed them in every field..and without them migrating to west and gulf, they are no better than biharis. Whom they ridicule for migration.
> 
> Now this fella tried linguistic crap,which i have agreed in the op than punjab has got soft power far surpassing anyone in south asia..i am talking about indian punjabi only. The sate which built entire punjab .



As if haryanvis don't migrate to west. Honestly I fail to see how haryanvis are better build considering they are influenced by ganga near by. British officials described people of Haryana and clearly said apart from some Hindu jaats who are minority and comparable to punjabis rest were just like your average gangu teli of UP and different from people of punjab. If you want I can even post source here. Doing well in some sports here and there depend on government support and facilities.

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## Tea addict

CleanWell said:


> How can anybody have physical superiority amongst the same genetic pool lol It all boils down to training and infrastructure. There are a couple of major trolls on these forums (not talking about ghenda) and they have both been in full swing on your thread. Unfortunately, defense forums (India or Pak) are just full of jingoistic race baiting people.


I know it ,you know it...but if someone doesn't want to know it...well, iam a boxer, i keep punching sense into people time to time.
Thats why i tagged the person who har superiority complex in op itself



save_ghenda said:


> As if haryanvis don't migrate to west. Honestly I fail to see how haryanvis are better build considering they are influenced by ganga near by. British officials described people of Haryana and clearly said apart from some Hindu jaats who are minority rest were just like your average gangu teli of UP and different from people of punjab. If you want I can even post source here. Doing well in some sports here and there depend on government support and facilities.


Haryanvis are negligible compared to your people who migrate.
I never said we are better build, i just said we dominate the physical sports of india and singke handedly take on entire Pakistan in physical sports..it come down to training,personal motivation,incentives and many other factors why we excel in sports and in other aspects too.



save_ghenda said:


> As if haryanvis don't migrate to west. Honestly I fail to see how haryanvis are better build considering they are influenced by ganga near by. British officials described people of Haryana and clearly said apart from some Hindu jaats who are minority and comparable to punjabis rest were just like your average gangu teli of UP and different from people of punjab. If you want I can even post source here. Doing well in some sports here and there depend on government support and facilities.


Not to mention i see you and biharis as same when it comes to migrations


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Haryanvis are negligible compared to your people who migrate.
> I never said we are better build, i just said we dominate the physical sports of india and singke handedly take on entire Pakistan in physical sports..it come down to training,personal motivation,incentives and many other factors why we excel in sports and in other aspects too.



No haryanvis can't take on pakistanis, wake up kid. Your small frame and build make you non starter to begin with. Yes you do well with in India which isn't a big deal. Most of them are hindu jaats who are migrants from sindh/punjab who forgot their mother tongue, not proper haryanvis.

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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> No haryanvis can't take on pakistanis, wake up kid. Your small frame and build make you non starter to begin with. Yes you do well with in India which isn't a big deal. Most of them are hindu jaats who are migrants from sindh/punjab who forgot their mother tongue, not proper haryanvis.


@CleanWell see, here it is...they can never offend me...from gangu teli in some previous post , where he himself said even hindu jaats are related to Rajasthan and up..he claim tjem as their own.
KO.
Jai haryana,jai bharat.

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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> @CleanWell see, here it is...they can never offend me...from gangu teli in some previous post , where he himself said even hindu jaats are related to Rajasthan and up..he claim tjem as their own.
> KO.
> Jai haryana,jai bharat.



Looks like you got offended when I mentioned some historical facts. Which caste you belong to? Hindu jaats are ancient inhabitants of indus valley who migrated east wards and got influenced by its culture and hence forgot mother tongue. You don't teach father how to **** baniya jee.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Looks like you got offended when I mentioned some historical facts. Which caste you belong to? Hindu jaats are ancient inhabitants of indus valley who migrated east wards and got influenced by its culture and hence forgot mother tongue. You don't teach father how to **** baniya jee.


I have already mentioned my caste in earlier post, i am not starting that debate again..go and check it up.
Looks like i hit under the belt, its been time since i left boxing..things do happen.



save_ghenda said:


> Looks like you got offended when I mentioned some historical facts. Which caste you belong to? Hindu jaats are ancient inhabitants of indus valley who migrated east wards and got influenced by its culture and hence forgot mother tongue. You don't teach father how to **** baniya jee.


And for once defend what you believe in, sometimes bring in religion, sometimes language, sometime migration and keep on jumping from one post to another..cool down, reasses and then attack.


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> Looks like you got offended when I mentioned some historical facts. Which caste you belong to? Hindu jaats are ancient inhabitants of indus valley who migrated east wards and got influenced by its culture and hence forgot mother tongue. You don't teach father how to **** baniya jee.



He is a Rajput from Haryana bro, why fighting for no reason. Here are the demographics of Haryana from 1990

Ahir-10% , Jat- 25% , Jat Sikh-4% ,Gujjar-2.8% , Rajput-3% , Saini-2.5% Ror-1% , Aggarwal {Bania}-5-% , Brahman-7% , Khatri/Arora-8% , Chamar-10% , Balmiki-4% , Dhanak-2% ,Meo-2% , Bishnoi-0.7% ,Kamboj-2%

Jat/Jatt, Gujjar, Ahir, Saini are all classified as martial by the Britishers even if you buy into their racist theory. That makes it close to 50% of the population. Must be about the same makeup in both Punjabs as well.

Why does it matter where they migrated from? We are debating the status of Punjabs on both sides, not that one race is superior to others.


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> I have already mentioned my caste in earlier post, i am not starting that debate again..go and check it up.
> Looks like i hit under the belt, its been time since i left boxing..things do happen.
> 
> 
> And for once defend what you believe in, sometimes bring in religion, sometimes language, sometime migration and keep on jumping from one post to another..cool down, reasses and then attack.



I fail to understand how haryanvi is taking pride in some jaats boxers. I mean in couple of years Pakistanis have made so much mark in MMA that now no Indian even come forward to fight them, including haryanvis.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> I fail to understand how haryanvi is taking proud of some hindu jaats boxers. I mean in couple of years Pakistanis have made so much mark in MMA that now no Indian even come forward to fight them, including haryanvis.


Lol just won one bout with that gilgit baltistan guy and started thinking of superiority..lol..


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> He is a Rajput from Haryana bro, why fighting for no reason. Here are the demographics of Haryana from 1990
> 
> Ahir-10% , Jat- 25% , Jat Sikh-4% ,Gujjar-2.8% , Rajput-3% , Saini-2.5% Ror-1% , Aggarwal {Bania}-5-% , Brahman-7% , Khatri/Arora-8% , Chamar-10% , Balmiki-4% , Dhanak-2% ,Meo-2% , Bishnoi-0.7% ,Kamboj-2%
> 
> Jat/Jatt, Gujjar, Ahir, Saini are all classified as martial by the Britishers even if you buy into their racist theory. That makes it close to 50% of the population. Must be about the same makeup in both Punjabs as well.
> 
> Why does it matter where they migrated from? We are debating the status of Punjabs on both sides, not that one race is superior to others.



Then he's gangu teli because rajput isn't a race but caste. British only separated haryanvi jaats from rest of Haryanvis. I rather believe them since they came up with original martial race shit. And no this doesn't have to be with being eligible for army under british was just political gimmick. Just general characteristics of people they described. Later on I can even find source of exact quote on Haryana people.

In Pak punjab there is visible difference between local punjabi rajputs and ranghers.


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## Tea addict

Tea addict said:


> Lol just won one bout with that gilgit baltistan guy and started thinking of superiority..lol..





save_ghenda said:


> I fail to understand how haryanvi is taking proud of some hindu jaats boxers. I mean in couple of years Pakistanis have made so much mark in MMA that now no Indian even come forward to fight them, including haryanvis.


Stop claiming hindu jaats now, you have already called them UP wala in earlier posts 



save_ghenda said:


> Then he's gangu teli because rajput isn't a race but caste. British only separated haryanvi jaats from rest of Haryanvis. I rather believe them since they came up with original martial race shit. And no this doesn't have to be with being eligible for army under british which was just political gimmick. Just general characteristics of people they described. Later on I can even find source of exact quote on Haryana people.
> 
> In Pak punjab there is visible difference between local punjabi rajputs and ranghers.





save_ghenda said:


> Then he's gangu teli because rajput isn't a race but caste. British only separated haryanvi jaats from rest of Haryanvis. I rather believe them since they came up with original martial race shit. And no this doesn't have to be with being eligible for army under british was just political gimmick. Just general characteristics of people they described. Later on I can even find source of exact quote on Haryana people.
> 
> In Pak punjab there is visible difference between local punjabi rajputs and ranghers.


You don't have to remind us how superior you are , it gets funny everytime


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> Then he's gangu teli because rajput isn't a race but caste. British only separated haryanvi jaats from rest of Haryanvis. I rather believe them since they came up with original martial race shit. And no this doesn't have to be with being eligible for army under british was just political gimmick. Just general characteristics of people they described. Later on I can even find source of exact quote on Haryana people.
> 
> In Pak punjab there is visible difference between local punjabi rajputs and ranghers.



The thing is that Britishers aren't a single entity. Sure you can find a gora guy writing something that supports your stand but odds are that I'll be able to find another gora source that supports something contradictory.

Anyway, as a Jatt Sikh I don't have a dog in this fight and won't spend the energy to convince you. I've interacted with Haryanvis throughout my life and found them to be no different than Punjabis. In some ways, I find that Haryanvi Jats have preserved Jat culture better than Sikh Jatts.

P.S. Just curious - what race or tribe are you from?


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Stop claiming hindu jaats now, you have already called them UP wala in earlier posts
> 
> 
> 
> You don't have to remind us how superior you are , it gets funny everytime



I'm not claiming them just stating facts. Do you know Liaquat Ali, first PM of Pakistan? With huge jagir in British era now known as Haryanvi jaat? His ancestors were actually east punjabi muslim jatt, they migrated to Haryana and forgot their tongue/culture. His tribe people were still living in east punjab in that era and were punjabi speakers.

Now Liaquat Ali is known as urdu speaking muhajir in Pakistan.


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> I'm not claiming them just stating facts. Do you know Liaquat Ali, first PM of Pakistan? With huge jagir in British era now known as Haryanvi jaat? His ancestors were actually east punjabi muslim jatt, they migrated to Haryana and forgot their tongue/culture. His tribe people were still living in east punjab in that era and were punjabi speakers.
> 
> Now Liaquat Ali is known as urdu speaking muhajir in Pakistan.


I know that, but why suddenly you are jumping from " haryanvis are related to UP" because of language then claiming them as your own by migration history
You can't be both, just like you can't claim Indus valley civilization and claim to be decendents of bin qasim as well


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> The thing is that Britishers aren't a single entity. Sure you can find a gora guy writing something that supports your stand but odds are that I'll be able to find another gora source that supports something contradictory.
> 
> Anyway, as a Jatt Sikh I don't have a dog in this fight and won't spend the energy to convince you. I've interacted with Haryanvis throughout my life and found them to be no different than Punjabis. In some ways, I find that Haryanvi Jats have preserved Jat culture better than Sikh Jatts.
> 
> P.S. Just curious - what race or tribe are you from?



I already told you some time ago when you had different id, I'm jatt from Gujrat. I'm on harappadna as well, HRP350.



Tea addict said:


> I know that, but why suddenly you are jumping from " haryanvis are related to UP" because of language then claiming them as your own by migration history
> You can't be both, just like you can't claim Indus valley civilization and claim to be dependents of bin qasim as well



Yes 85% of you are apart from jaats. I don't know much about UP jaats if they are similar to haryanvis jaats or not. I'm just going by what British official said about people of Haryana, they were pretty clear. And its historical fact these haryanvi jaat you take so much pride in are migrants from this region, don't make me laugh now


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## Tea addict

save_ghenda said:


> Yes 85% of you are apart from jaats. I don't know much about UP jaats if they are similar to haryanvis jaats or not. I'm just going by what British official said about people of Haryana, they were pretty clear. And its historical fact these haryanvi jaat you take so much pride in are migrants from this region, don't make me laugh now


Lol ask our mate @CleanWell ,did he ever encountered a haryanvi jaat talking about migration? Lol they are so hardcore haryanvis that jaats have became synonymous for haryana..and UP Jaats are the closest ethnic group of haryanvi jats.
You seriously don't know anything about the people you are commenting against, so let me tell you something,, this superiority complex doesn't work on us.

@waz sir this post has no more discussion now...


save_ghenda said:


> Yes 85% of you are apart from jaats. I don't know much about UP jaats if they are similar to haryanvis jaats or not. I'm just going by what British official said about people of Haryana, they were pretty clear. And its historical fact these haryanvi jaat you take so much pride in are migrants from this region, don't make me laugh now


And we also know who is apart and who is our mate, so do.the jaats


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## Kabira

Tea addict said:


> Lol ask our mate @CleanWell ,did he ever encountered a haryanvi jaat talking about migration? Lol they are so hardcore haryanvis that jaats have became synonymous for haryana..and UP Jaats are the closest ethnic group of haryanvi jats.
> You seriously don't know anything about the people you are commenting against, so let me tell you something,, this superiority complex doesn't work on us.
> 
> @waz sir this post has no more discussion now...
> 
> And we also know who is apart and who is our mate, so do.the jaats



I know jaats are not completely haryanvis yet, they need some more years to become proper gangu telis.


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> I already told you some time ago when you had different id, I'm jatt from Gujrat. I'm on harappadna as well, HRP350.



Cool, I did have a different ID but don't remember talking to you, you might be confusing me for somebody else. I'm a Jatt as well with ancestry in Lahore and from Maharaja Ranjit Singh's misl.



Tea addict said:


> Lol ask our mate @CleanWell ,did he ever encountered a haryanvi jaat talking about migration?



Whatever migration happened has happened so long ago that people have forgotten about it. Now Haryanvis don't even relate to Punjabis lol


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## Kabira

CleanWell said:


> Cool, I did have a different ID but don't remember talking to you, you might be confusing me for somebody else. I'm a Jatt as well with ancestry in Lahore and from Maharaja Ranjit Singh's misl.



Are you sansi by any chance?


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## ZenBird

save_ghenda said:


> Sansi?



I'm a Bhinder and mom's side is Pannu. My ancestors were from Sukerchakia misl that Ranjit Singh belonged to.

Edit: Ranjit Singh himself wasn't a Sansi by caste. He was a Sandhawalia Jatt also called sansis as a nickname.

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## Bharat Muslim

TSA321 said:


> Just a fyi, Sadiq Khan is from a Muhajir background and not Punjabi


Are you sure RAW has not edited the Wikipedia entry and changed the background information of Sadiq Khan? RAW has reasons to do it because RAW really wants to attract American investment to India on a massive scale and drive a wedge between US and Pakistan.

And since Sadiq Khan holds such an important position, perception about him matters in deciding American business decisions.

Who knows they may have even bribed Sadiq Khan to spout BS?


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## Vishvamitra

Kaptaan said:


> I tell you guy's this component is deadly. Even in trace amounts it wrecks the individual. High amounts of course are rampant in South India - less said the better. African's bring something to the genetic table - physical lean bodies but the South Indian has nothing redeaming about it. I have observed Pakistani Christians who display those features and I strongly suspect many are migrants from Deccan during British times. Their souls might be Christian but South India is writ on their faces.
> 
> Thanks god for the Radclife Line !
> 
> 
> _Ps. Are you Sikh?_


Lucky bas*ards !


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## Vishvamitra

CleanWell said:


> I had the same reaction but then people are going to get their underwear in a twist and start calling me Khalistani terrorist.


I personally want pu jab to be divided between Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. Sikhs can get all North and West Punjab as khali stan and Hindus will get South and east Punjab as Hindu province.

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## ZenBird

Vishvamitra said:


> I personally want pu jab to be divided between Sikhs and Punjabi Hindus. Sikhs can get all North and West Punjab as khali stan and Hindus will get South and east Punjab as Hindu province.



It doesn't make a difference to me. Sikhs are already a single nation under God. We have our own governing body. I don't have a problem with Punjabi Hindus or Muslims. A landlocked Khalistani state would be at the mercy of Pakistan and India and would need to develop nuclear weapons to survive which the world doesn't need. We are fine as is.


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## RazaGujjar

CleanWell said:


> Interesting, how are they treated by Zamindars? Most servants and bhaiyyas are treated like crap in our Punjab which is one thing I don't like.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice, well met Majha brother. How do you feel about Mirpuris? My Pakistani friend from Lahore hates them with a passion and has the choicest abuses for them. He used to live in UK and said that a large population of them live there and are responsible for crimes and don't even spare Pakistani Punjabis.





In the last 30 years or so Punjab has seen a huge influx of pathans. These pathans now speak punjabi and have become shop owners and fruit/vegetable merchants.

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## Bouncer

Tea addict said:


> in that video, i realized that current day Pakistan punjab use to dominate wrestling in punjab before partition, but current day east punjabis( indian punjab , haryana, himachal pradesh ,chandigarh) dominates sports relatively to pakistani punjabis in Professional wrestling,boxing,kabaddi and many more. from this forum i came to know that Punjabis are more prosperous than rest of pakistan, just like the current day indian states of former East Punjab.
> So i just wanted to compare current day pakistani punjab and entire East punjab in every aspect , not just sports.
> Personally , i believe that current day indian state of punjab is faring well in all aspects, to the extent that it can outmatch all the rest of punjabis, indian and pakistani included in soft power( HDI,songs, world recognition,)



Good thread dude. But you can't just make claims like Indian Punjab dominates Pakistani Punjab without providing proofs etc. This statement seems inaccurate.

Sports, films and all the "soft power" have to be seen in a national context. For example the Punjabi songs and dances in Bollywood rely on Bollywood's massive reach to be popular so it will be unfair to other Indians when you claim this "soft power" as solely belonging to Punjabis. Same goes for sports. And this point stands out more when you consider the fact that Punjabis in India make up less than what 5~6% (?) of the total population?

Furthermore, both Punjabs are not what they were in 1947. Both sides have seen an influx of ethnicities from other provinces. Comparing today with the past doesn't make any sense.



Kambojaric said:


> For Punjabis this is what Indian Punjab (eastern Punjab) increasingly seems to look like http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms



Interesting article. Perhaps this land has always been accommodating. Just like the Biharis settled in Easter Punjab adapted to Eastern Punjabi lifestyle, same thing happened to millions of Balochs, Kashmiris and Pashtuns in Pakistani Punjab. These groups adopted the language, cuisine and customs here. You can't tell apart second or third generation Pashtun family in Lahore from an 8th generation Lahori these days. Exceptions exist of course.



Tea addict said:


> actually east punjabis built punjab, its literature,its forts, its culture...we were the ones who not only defeated the invaders from the west in punjab but also invaded their land and you guys got those land from british empire.



Dead wrong.

Entire Sikh empire was based out of Gujranwala and Lahore. The Ghakkars, Awans, Bhattis of Pothohar fought against the Afghans and Mughals. Raja Porus of Jehlum stood against Alexander at the battle ground of Mandi Baha ud Din. And if you want to go further back; I'd dare say that entire Hinduism has its roots in Taxila and Potohar plateau, arguably. These were our ancestors and they were from what is now called Pakistani Punjab.

So your claim that Eastern Punjab built Punjab as we know it is false.

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## ZenBird

Bouncer said:


> Just like the Biharis settled in Easter Punjab adapted to Eastern Punjabi lifestyle,



Ha bhaiyyas haven't adopted anything, they live separately in ghettos and speak Hindi. They are treated with such contempt that they do not have a chance of settling down in Punjab and assimilating. For instance, nobody would rent a house to them, nobody would let their kid marry them - they are just seasonal labor who are working as second class citizens in Punjab.



Bouncer said:


> These groups adopted the language, cuisine and customs here. You can't tell apart second or third generation Pashtun family in Lahore



Is this adopted language Urdu or Punjabi?

Indian Punjab has seen one of the worst insurgencies in Indian history, retired military people told me that Khalistanis used to make Kashmiri militants look docile in comparison. I'm biased as an American but I believe Indian Punjab is now settled in Canada lol

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## Bouncer

CleanWell said:


> Ha bhaiyyas haven't adopted anything, they live separately in ghettos and speak Hindi. They are treated with such contempt that they do not have a chance of settling down in Punjab and assimilating. For instance, nobody would rent a house to them, nobody would let their kid marry them - they are just seasonal labor who are working as second class citizens in Punjab.



http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms



CleanWell said:


> Is this adopted language Urdu or Punjabi?
> 
> Indian Punjab has seen one of the worst insurgencies in Indian history, retired military people told me that Khalistanis used to make Kashmiri militants look docile in comparison. I'm biased as an American but I believe Indian Punjab is now settled in Canada lol



Punjabi.

Sikh insurgency has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.


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## ZenBird

Bouncer said:


> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Punjab-now-a-land-of-Bihari-sardars/articleshow/2583135.cms
> 
> 
> 
> Punjabi.
> 
> Sikh insurgency has nothing to do with what we are discussing here.



It says 11% have converted to Sikhism.. First I doubt that number how do you count people with no address and no papers. Second it's a big minority of the labors. Third, they might be indistinguishable from Punjabis from the perspective of another bhaiyya reporter from Delhi but for a Punjabi their Punjabi is just Hindi with a Punjabi word thrown in here and there.

Sikh insurgency has everything to do with topic at hand. Before 1984 Punjab growth rate was 7-8% when rest of India was growing at 1-2%. After the militancy it has become a drug riddled state lagging behind several others.


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## Bouncer

CleanWell said:


> It says 11% have converted to Sikhism.. First I doubt that number how do you count people with no address and no papers. Second it's a big minority of the labors. Third, they might be indistinguishable from Punjabis from the perspective of another bhaiyya reporter from Delhi but for a Punjabi their Punjabi is just Hindi with a Punjabi word thrown in here and there.



Sorry but I'll take TOI's word over you 



CleanWell said:


> Sikh insurgency has everything to do with topic at hand. Before 1984 Punjab growth rate was 7-8% when rest of India was growing at 1-2%. After the militancy it has become a drug riddled state lagging behind several others.



Off topic but meh ..

https://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/why-punjab-has-suffered-long-steady-decline

"Myth-2: Sikh terrorism caused Punjab’s decline. Sikh terrorism ended two decades ago, and Punjab’s decline has continued nevertheless. Today, many Indian states face Maoist insurrections, which sometimes are as threatening as Sikh militancy once was in Punjab. Yet this violence has not come in the way of India achieving its fastest growth in history. The most entrenched Maoist-held areas are in the state of Chhattisgarh, which has huge forests, relatively few roads, and limited administrative breadth. The Maoists control very large areas in the state. Yet Chhattisgarh has been, in the last decade, one of India’s fastest growing states, averaging 9.1% per year between 2002-03 and 2010-11. It is a major producer of steel, sponge iron and aluminum. No doubt it has the advantage of big mineral deposits, but Maoists have seriously disrupted this. The contrast between economic growth in Punjab and Chhattisgarh demonstrates that terrorism does not necessarily mean economic decline, and can co-exist with double-digit growth. Besides, almost two decades have passed since the end of terrorism in Punjab, so it is a poor excuse for the state’s continuing weak performance."


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## ZenBird

Bouncer said:


> Sorry but I'll take TOI's word over you



End of discussion then lol



Bouncer said:


> Myth-2: Sikh terrorism caused Punjab’s decline. Sikh terrorism ended two decades ago, and Punjab’s decline has continued nevertheless. Today, many Indian states face Maoist insurrections, which sometimes are as threatening as Sikh militancy once was in Punjab.



Logical fallacy. Uttrakhand was rock bottom so no way to go but up. Punjab was the most prosperous until militancy and has stagnated since. On mobile or would post source I have bookmarked.

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## ZenBird

@Bouncer This is a good article. 

http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/comment/punjab-s-economy-what-went-wrong/279303.html

By the 1980s, Punjab was in chaos, with enormous human, social and economic costs that are still being felt 30 years later. State-level politics no longer functioned in normal democratic channels for most of the decade.

When the national government began to liberalise the economy in 1991, Punjab's recent history meant that it was among the worst-placed of the richer states to benefit from this change. The removal of controls on industrial licensing did not create positive incentives to invest in the state. 

Over a decade without a state-level elected government had created a situation where corruption and rent-seeking were prevalent throughout the layers of government. For example, a corruption free-for-all was one of the factors that held back attempts to create a software industry in Mohali, near Chandigarh.

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## ghazi52

*Maharaja Ranjit Singh's eldest grandaughter Princess Bamba Kaur Sutherland- grave in Lahore*









*She married Pir Karim Baksh, after being widowed. First husband British principal Sutherland for King Edward college.*

A translation of the Persian distich on her gravestone has been translated as:

The difference between royalty and servility vanishes
The moment the writing of destiny is encountered
If one opens the grave of a dead
None would be able to discern rich from poor







Princess Bamba after her return to Lahore. She was the God daughter of Queen Victoria.








Her mother Sofia was an Arabic speaking Abyssian slave girl in Cairo, whom her father Maharaja Duleep Singh married & took her to England.

I THINK SUCH HISTORICAL FACTS NEED TO BE HIGHLIGHTED TO INCREASE TOURISM, ESP. AMONG SIKHS AND PERHAPS BRITISH TOO.

She bequeathed her collection of paintings and art objects to Pir Karim Bakhsh Supra, who, after her death, sold these to the Government of Pakistan. The collection, consisting of 18 oil paintings, 14 water colours, 22 ivory paintings, 17 photographs, 10 metallic objects and seven miscellaneous articles, are known as ‘The Princess Bamba Collection’.


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## Kabira

Bouncer said:


> Good thread dude. But you can't just make claims like Indian Punjab dominates Pakistani Punjab without providing proofs etc. This statement seems inaccurate.
> 
> Sports, films and all the "soft power" have to be seen in a national context. For example the Punjabi songs and dances in Bollywood rely on Bollywood's massive reach to be popular so it will be unfair to other Indians when you claim this "soft power" as solely belonging to Punjabis. Same goes for sports. And this point stands out more when you consider the fact that Punjabis in India make up less than what 5~6% (?) of the total population?
> 
> Furthermore, both Punjabs are not what they were in 1947. Both sides have seen an influx of ethnicities from other provinces. Comparing today with the past doesn't make any sense.



I've seen interview of late Yash Raj who said their main porpose was to promore punjabi culture through bollywood. I mean if rest of Indians don't have problem with promotion of culture which is barely 2-3% of them then good for Indian punjabis. This has helped even Pakistani artists indirectly till recently lol


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