# Bangladesh Navy indigenous Frigate development program.



## monitor

Bangladesh navy has taken initiative to build indigenous frigate with support from China. First frigate construction will start from 2018 . Navy has plan to have at least 12 guided missile frigate the figure could rise to 16 . This frigate will equiped with 32 VLS for medium range LY-80N Sam C-803 cruise missile and other modern equipment.

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## UKBengali

This will be great if true.

However, BD is yet to buid even corvette sized warships and so it may be too much to jump to frigates by next year.

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## Usamafarooqi99

Wow! that's wonderful
Keep going high Allah be with u

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## BanglarBagh

monitor said:


> View attachment 403450
> Bangladesh navy has taken initiative to build indigenous frigate with support from China. First frigate construction will start from 2018 . Navy has plan to have at least 12 guided missile frigate the figure could rise to 16 .



what are the specifications of the frigate? like tonnage at full load, armament, helicopter carrying capacity and others?!!

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## monitor

BanglarBagh said:


> what are the specifications of the frigate? like tonnage at full load, armament, helicopter carrying capacity and others?!!




Full report expected in coming days in bdmilitary forum.

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## monitor

*BN: Shipyards by size*

KSY-2: 200 acres

KSY: 69 acres

CDDL: 48 acres

DEW: 22 acres courtesy : bdmilitary .


interesting thing is we are going to use CDDL facility for our indigenous Frigate instead of largest facility of KSY .

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## Michael Corleone

BanglarBagh said:


> what are the specifications of the frigate? like tonnage at full load, armament, helicopter carrying capacity and others?!!


4000+ tons.


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## Syed Asif Bukhari

that is one hell of firepower .but I think Bangladesh don't have capacity and requirement to build guided missile frigate . start with basic steps such as coverts , missile boats .

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Is this a part of the thing called "string of pearls"????? It's not a myth after all!!!!!

What's next??? A ballistic missile with a W-11 warhead?????

On a serious note- _Tebrikler!!!!

"Here’s the smell of the blood still. All the perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand. Oh, Oh, Oh!" - William Shakespeare (Macbeth)_

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## UKBengali

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> that is one hell of firepower .but I think Bangladesh don't have capacity and requirement to build guided missile frigate . start with basic steps such as coverts , missile boats .



BD DEFINITELY has a requirement for around 12 4,000 tonne VLS missile frigates. It needs huge conventional forces to safeguard it's sovereignty in a tough neighbourhood.

I am sceptical that BD can start construction by next year as the largest military ships that it has built so far is the 648 tonne Durjoy class patrol craft. However, BD has a thriving civilian shipbuilding industry that can build ships up to around 10,000 tonnes. So it may seem a stretch, with massive Chinese technical assistance, maybe it can be done by 2018.

Whether construction starts next year or a little later, this is inevitable as "Forces Goal 2030" aims for large and modern conventional forces to build a military that can safeguard the interests of around 200 million people.

@Chinese-Dragon ; @ChineseTiger1986 ; @wanglaokan and any other Chinese input would be most appreciated.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

UKBengali said:


> BD DEFINITELY has a requirement for around 12 4,000 tonne VLS missile frigates. It needs huge conventional forces to safeguard it's sovereignty in a tough neighbourhood.
> 
> I am sceptical that BD can start construction by next year as the largest military ships that it has built so far is the 648 tonne Durjoy class patrol craft. However, BD has a thriving civilian shipbuilding industry that can build ships up to around 10,000 tonnes. So it may seem a stretch, with massive Chinese technical assistance, maybe it can be done by 2018.
> 
> Whether construction starts next year or a little later, this is inevitable as "Forces Goal 2030" aims for large and modern conventional forces to build a military that can safeguard the interests of around 200 million people.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon ; @ChineseTiger1986 ; @wanglaokan and any other Chinese input would be most appreciated.


we think also same . even our ship building industry ( we have license build agosta , F22 , numerous missile boats ,fleet tanker) is more mature then you and we are also facing a bigger threat . But what have we got , Old Perry Frigates , VLS less F22 and most probably going to get VLS less Ada . Lol , systems are not procured and made in nights . BD Navy building a VLS guided frigate is like crying for moon . I don't think BD will even buy guided frigates from china for pretty much amount of time let alone producing them at home that too from 2018 .

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## UKBengali

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> we think also same . even our ship building industry ( we have license build agosta , F22 , numerous missile boats ,fleet tanker) is more mature then you and we are also facing a bigger threat . But what have we got , Old Perry Frigates , VLS less F22 and most probably going to get VLS less Ada . Lol , systems are not procured and made in nights . BD Navy building a VLS guided frigate is like crying for moon . I don't think BD will even buy guided frigates from china for pretty much amount of time let alone producing them at home that too from 2018 .




Pakistan does not prioritise the Navy like BD is doing. BD has a huge areas of territorial seas that it needs to safeguard.
BD already has 2 of the modern Chinese Type-56 corvette and has orderd 2 more. These are just as well armed as anything that Pakistan has.
BD will only build the hull - other things like missiles, sensors and engines will all come from China.

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## Syed Asif Bukhari

UKBengali said:


> Pakistan does not prioritise the Navy like BD is doing. BD has a huge areas of territorial seas that it needs to safeguard.
> BD already has 2 of the modern Chinese Type-56 corvette and has orderd 2 more. These are just as well armed as anything that Pakistan has.
> BD will only build the hull - other things like missiles, sensors and engines will all come from China.


has Bangladesh ever built any kind of naval vessel ? I am asking not teasing to get a better view of BD ship building capacity .

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## UKBengali

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> has Bangladesh ever built any kind of naval vessel ? I am asking not teasing to get a better view of BD ship building capacity .



Yes 2 types - 350 and 648 tonnes patrol craft.


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## Michael Corleone

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> that is one hell of firepower .but I think Bangladesh don't have capacity and requirement to build guided missile frigate . start with basic steps such as coverts , missile boats .


The project is to be a join project incorporating type 054 tech... These ships won't be all completed by 2030 and so the last variant of type 053 will be bought... 2 every couple of years. 
We have the corvette tot already... Construction is to commence along with the first frigate this year.... Early next year.



UKBengali said:


> BD DEFINITELY has a requirement for around 12 4,000 tonne VLS missile frigates. It needs huge conventional forces to safeguard it's sovereignty in a tough neighbourhood.
> 
> I am sceptical that BD can start construction by next year as the largest military ships that it has built so far is the 648 tonne Durjoy class patrol craft. However, BD has a thriving civilian shipbuilding industry that can build ships up to around 10,000 tonnes. So it may seem a stretch, with massive Chinese technical assistance, maybe it can be done by 2018.
> 
> Whether construction starts next year or a little later, this is inevitable as "Forces Goal 2030" aims for large and modern conventional forces to build a military that can safeguard the interests of around 200 million people.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon ; @ChineseTiger1986 ; @wanglaokan and any other Chinese input would be most appreciated.


Expansion of Chittagong dock and Khulna dock was already underway since last year.



Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> has Bangladesh ever built any kind of naval vessel ? I am asking not teasing to get a better view of BD ship building capacity .


Very much experienced in civilian / commercial vessels... Of around 10k+ tons 
For navy though.... Patrol boats.... Both large and small, troop landing ship, fuel ship etc.

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## Shorisrip

UKBengali said:


> BD DEFINITELY has a requirement for around 12 4,000 tonne VLS missile frigates. It needs huge conventional forces to safeguard it's sovereignty in a tough neighbourhood.
> 
> I am sceptical that BD can start construction by next year as the largest military ships that it has built so far is the 648 tonne Durjoy class patrol craft. However, BD has a thriving civilian shipbuilding industry that can build ships up to around 10,000 tonnes. So it may seem a stretch, with massive Chinese technical assistance, maybe it can be done by 2018.
> 
> Whether construction starts next year or a little later, this is inevitable as "Forces Goal 2030" aims for large and modern conventional forces to build a military that can safeguard the interests of around 200 million people.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon ; @ChineseTiger1986 ; @wanglaokan and any other Chinese input would be most appreciated.


Bruh, if the Burmese could do it, why can't we?

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Shorisrip said:


> Bruh, if the Burmese could do it, why can't we?


By competing with each other you folks are putting India under even more pressure!!! I think the Indians want to keep a 3 to 1 advantage over her smaller neighbors. Even BD folks were complaining that if they put one battalion at the border, Indians put 3!!! The way BD and Burma are arming themselves, and that too under the Chinese patronage, I don't know how India can keep up with the math!??!!?? By the by, the Burmese army is their deep state with extensive economic strongholds and the Chinese connections!!!

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## bluesky

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> BD Navy building a VLS guided frigate is like *crying for moon* . I don't think BD will even buy guided frigates from china for pretty much amount of time let alone producing them at home that too from 2018 .


Why it is crying for moon? All the symptoms show BD will build the guided missile frigates in its own land with Chinese assistance to design the body and getting all the technical goods.

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## Bilal9

UKBengali said:


> This will be great if true.
> 
> However, BD is yet to buid even corvette sized warships and so it may be too much to jump to frigates by next year.



You have a point however that did not stop Pakistan to build F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate with hardly any other recent large local builds except PN Azmat Class (~500 tons) which was smaller than Bangladesh Navy LPC Durgam/Nishan Class (~650 tons) built locally. PN Azmat class missile boat was of course a lot smaller than a corvette (our BN C13B corvette is ~1350 tons).

Our private sector routinely builds modern export vessels with digital orbital controls as well as water-jet drives, some as large as 8000 tons plus. Building a frigate would be a new project locally - but hardly revolutionary for our shipbuilders, even govt. ones.

I believe F-22P Zulfiquar class frigate was a build conducted with 'help' from China as well. Though help of what extent we know not.

Maybe someone with knowledge of Pakistan Navy operations will elaborate in brief without giving away too much.



monitor said:


> *BN: Shipyards by size*
> 
> KSY-2: 200 acres
> 
> KSY: 69 acres
> 
> CDDL: 48 acres
> 
> DEW: 22 acres courtesy : bdmilitary .
> 
> 
> interesting thing is we are going to use CDDL facility for our indigenous Frigate instead of largest facility of KSY .



There are plans for other additional LPC and auxiliary builds at KSY, there is a reason for the huge land acquisition at KSY-2. There may be export builds attempted there as well.



Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> we think also same . even our ship building industry ( we have license build agosta , F22 , numerous missile boats ,fleet tanker) is more mature then you and we are also facing a bigger threat . But what have we got , Old Perry Frigates , VLS less F22 and most probably going to get VLS less Ada . Lol , systems are not procured and made in nights . BD Navy building a VLS guided frigate is like crying for moon . I don't think BD will even buy guided frigates from china for pretty much amount of time let alone producing them at home that too from 2018 .



With all due respect brother - you need to learn about our capability. With the exception of submarine builds, Bangladesh has completed more builds in its own yards, both in numbers and quality than 99% of nations its size and development stage.

East Pakistan was supposed to be the shipbuilding hub of Pakistan - we have a huge number of yards. This is not a bad thing for Pakistan. As a brotherly Muslim country, you should be congratulating us.

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## M_Saint

Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> we think also same . even our ship building industry ( we have license build agosta , F22 , numerous missile boats ,fleet tanker) is more mature then you and we are also facing a bigger threat . But what have we got , Old Perry Frigates , VLS less F22 and most probably going to get VLS less Ada . Lol , systems are not procured and made in nights . BD Navy building a VLS guided frigate is like crying for moon . I don't think BD will even buy guided frigates from china for pretty much amount of time let alone producing them at home that too from 2018 .






Syed Asif Bukhari said:


> BD Navy building a VLS guided frigate is like crying for moon . I don't think BD will even buy guided frigates from china for pretty much amount of time let alone producing them at home that too from 2018 .


Lemme inform U that CTG Dry dock and Khulna Shipyard had been built during Ayub era that had top-notch Naval Architect even in 80s and by now BN and BD's Ship building capacity have grown by many folds. So, yes with Chinese help, BN can build VLS guided frigate like BDeshis are building more complex Padma Bridge right now. Infect, complexity in VLS is miniscule compare to building a bridge like Padma's one.

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## dy1022

Great news!

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## MULUBJA

monitor said:


> View attachment 403450
> Bangladesh navy has taken initiative to build indigenous frigate with support from China. First frigate construction will start from 2018 . Navy has plan to have at least 12 guided missile frigate the figure could rise to 16 . This frigate will equiped with 32 VLS for medium range LY-80N Sam C-803 cruise missile and other modern equipment.



It shall be very interesting to see with what sort of vessel BD come up with. If they can build that than it shall be truly remarkable. My best wishes.

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## Species

*Bangladesh Navy To Build 6 Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously

In line with Armed Forces Goal 2030 modernization program, the Bangladesh Navy has vowed to build its warships indigenously from its shipyards across the country, instead of completely relying on foreign ship builders.

Chittagong Dry Dock Limited, one of the three shipyards operated by the Bangladesh Navy, has taken up a project to build 6 guided missile frigates, which if as planned will be indigenously built, Bangladesh Military Forces website bdmilitary.com reported Friday.

Chittagong port is also expected to manufacture smaller patrol vessels for the country’s coast guard in technical cooperation with an Italian shipbuilding giant.

The other two Navy shipyards – Khulna shipyard and Dockyard & Engineering works will also be assigned unnamed projects.

The Bangladeshi Navy has a number of vessels and aircraft on order which ranges from old U.S. Coast Guard cutters and indigenously built patrol vessels, to Chinese built/refurbished corvettes and a budding new aviation wing comprising a handful of helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. The Navy also has two Chinese Ming-class submarines on order, due to be delivered by 2019 which will give the force some serious offensive firepower.
*

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## BanglarBagh

Species said:


> *Bangladesh Navy To Build 6 Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously
> 
> In line with Armed Forces Goal 2030 modernization program, the Bangladesh Navy has vowed to build its warships indigenously from its shipyards across the country, instead of completely relying on foreign ship builders.
> 
> Chittagong Dry Dock Limited, one of the three shipyards operated by the Bangladesh Navy, has taken up a project to build 6 guided missile frigates, which if as planned will be indigenously built, Bangladesh Military Forces website bdmilitary.com reported Friday.
> 
> Chittagong port is also expected to manufacture smaller patrol vessels for the country’s coast guard in technical cooperation with an Italian shipbuilding giant.
> 
> The other two Navy shipyards – Khulna shipyard and Dockyard & Engineering works will also be assigned unnamed projects.
> 
> The Bangladeshi Navy has a number of vessels and aircraft on order which ranges from old U.S. Coast Guard cutters and indigenously built patrol vessels, to Chinese built/refurbished corvettes and a budding new aviation wing comprising a handful of helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. The Navy also has two Chinese Ming-class submarines on order, due to be delivered by 2019 which will give the force some serious offensive firepower.*



What is that? BN ordered 2 more mings? not Song-class??!!!


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## Species

BanglarBagh said:


> What is that? BN ordered 2 more mings? not Song-class??!!!



I think it talked about the Ming class already been delivered. It's an Indian site afterall.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

HAKIKAT said:


> By competing with each other you folks are putting India under even more pressure!!! I think the Indians want to keep a 3 to 1 advantage over her smaller neighbors. Even BD folks were complaining that if they put one battalion at the border, Indians put 3!!! The way BD and Burma are arming themselves, and that too under the Chinese patronage, I don't know how India can keep up with the math!??!!?? By the by, the Burmese army is their deep state with extensive economic strongholds and the Chinese connections!!!



that's a good point you've noticed, brother....
there's even a competition existing in Bangladesh with Pakistan.... some Pakistanis challenge Bangladeshis regarding what Bangladesh has achieved by seceding from Pakistan..... that type of challenge makes Bangladeshis more determined to do better.... after all, you have to justify your million-man-loss war of independence.... from the economic and social standpoint, Bangladesh has achieved a lot, but from military industry perspective, it still is way behind Pakistan..... and that gap, some influential people here think should be plugged....
of course this puts India in tight corner, since India always wanted distance between Bangladesh and Pakistan.... now, even distance is creating trouble for them!!

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## Homo Sapiens

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19..._Build_6_Guided_Missile_Frigates_Indigenously

*Bangladesh Navy To Build 6 Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously*
Our Bureau
03:43 PM, July 14, 2017






Bangladesh Navy To Build 6 Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously

In line with Armed Forces Goal 2030 modernization program, the Bangladesh Navy has vowed to build its warships indigenously from its shipyards across the country, instead of completely relying on foreign ship builders.

Chittagong Dry Dock Limited, one of the three shipyards operated by the Bangladesh Navy, has taken up a project to build 6 guided missile frigates, which if as planned will be indigenously built, Bangladesh Military Forces website bdmilitary.com reported Friday.

Chittagong port is also expected to manufacture smaller patrol vessels for the country’s coast guard in technical cooperation with an Italian shipbuilding giant.

The other two Navy shipyards – Khulna shipyard and Dockyard & Engineering works will also be assigned unnamed projects.

The Bangladeshi Navy has a number of vessels and aircraft on order which ranges from old U.S. Coast Guard cutters and indigenously built patrol vessels, to Chinese built/refurbished corvettes and a budding new aviation wing comprising a handful of helicopters and fixed wing aircraft.

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## UKBengali

It will be a joint design with China.
Hull will be BD'shi, while engines, sensors and missiles will be Chinese. Over time BD indigenous
content will slowly increase.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Hull will be BD'shi



What are BD's capabilities in warship design ?

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> What are BD's capabilities in warship design ?



BD already builds ocean-going vessels up to 10,000 tonnes.
It has produced patrol ships up to around 600 tonnes so far.


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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> BD already builds ocean-going vessels up to 10,000 tonnes.
> It has produced patrol ships up to around 600 tonnes so far.



warship design capability, I meant.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> warship design capability, I meant.



Patrol boats are warships and building civilian vessels helps in building warships as well.


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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Patrol boats are warships and building civilian vessels helps in building warships as well.



I said design-not construction.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> I said design-not construction.


Not everybody is dumb as Indian.
With funding our engineers will build it with no time. Rest assured.

We will upload a scaled down design for Indian in the youtube to learn.

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## 帅的一匹

We'll done BD! Getting better everyday!

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## TopCat

This text from CDDL website scroll.

****Website For CDDL is Under Construction***Facility and Infrastructure development to convert CDDL from repair yard to construction yard is going to be started very soon*** Invitation for interested shipbuilders/company/organization for warship building including infrastructure development at Chittagong Dry Dock Ltd.***

http://www.cddl.gov.bd/*

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Not everybody is dumb as Indian.
> With funding our engineers will build it with no time. Rest assured.
> 
> We will upload a scaled down design for Indian in the youtube to learn.



Moron, we developed hull forms for a 8000 tonne destroyer & a 7000 tonne frigate on our own. And not to forget, the aircraft carrier.

Even your Padma class LPC is a foreign design. Deal with it.

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## bdslph

with China help we can built it easily


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## bluesky

monitor said:


> Navy has plan to have at least 12 guided missile frigate the figure *could rise to 16.*



Why so many frigates? Do you guys really want to challenge your big neighbor? It is frightening!!

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## Grevion

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> of course this puts India in tight corner, since India always wanted distance between Bangladesh and Pakistan.... now, even distance is creating trouble for them!!


Bangladesh can go and mingle with their parent country for all they want just don't come to us crying like you guys did the last time when things go South.

Always remember your fallen heros and the ideology for which they fought for and you will find India always standing right by your side.

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## Michael Corleone

gslv mk3 said:


> Moron, we developed hull forms for a 8000 tonne destroyer & a 7000 tonne frigate on our own. And not to forget, the aircraft carrier.
> 
> Even your Padma class LPC is a foreign design. Deal with it.



http://indianexpress.com/article/in...rrier-not-enough-to-fight-china-seas-4404232/

Curious: How much of the Indian made warships are indigenous tech? For ex. Afaik Ukrainian engines are still used widely in Chinese tanks, vessels etc while Russian are used in Indian ships...

The next two corvette will have design (structural) changes by Bangladeshi engineers as per the requirements. (Those that will be built at home)

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## gslv mk3

Mohammed Khaled said:


> http://indianexpress.com/article/in...rrier-not-enough-to-fight-china-seas-4404232/



It's their assessment. IAC is actually quite good in air defense department with 64 LRSAM with range 0.5-90 km (although a system like SeaRAM would be a nice addition).



Mohammed Khaled said:


> Curious: How much of the Indian made warships are indigenous tech?



The design of Indian warships are indigenous, with EW systems, CMS, Sonars etc indigenous & missiles being JVs. Radars, Oto Melara SRGM etc are being locally produced under license. We use Ukrainian Zorya gas turbines presently on P-15 series, not Russian ones.



Mohammed Khaled said:


> The next two corvette will have design (structural) changes by Bangladeshi engineers as per the requirements.



That's different from developing a whole new design from scratch, as UKBengali was claiming.

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## Michael Corleone

gslv mk3 said:


> It's their assessment. IAC is actually quite good in air defense department with 64 LRSAM with range 0.5-90 km (although a system like SeaRAM would be a nice addition).
> 
> 
> 
> The design of Indian warships are indigenous, with EW systems, CMS, Sonars etc indigenous & missiles being JVs. Radars, Oto Melara SRGM etc are being locally produced under license. We use Ukrainian Zorya gas turbines presently on P-15 series, not Russian ones.
> 
> 
> 
> That's different from developing a whole new design from scratch, as UKBengali was claiming.


I would like to hear more about indias current aircraft carrier from @Penguin and his thoughts on regards to what US military have to say about Indian AC

We certainly have the industry, manpower and capability to build such a ship. Funding is only needed but it's smart to incorporate licensed built tech into own design than developing a new system altogether wasting resources. Many car companies do this nowadays licensing, leasing or co developing software, tech needed to push forward as its more economically viable for economically small nation. Ex EUROPE and US


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## gslv mk3

Mohammed Khaled said:


> We certainly have the industry, manpower and capability to build such a ship. Funding is only needed but it's smart to incorporate licensed built tech into own design than developing a new system altogether wasting resources.



I never doubted your ability to build a frigate,but I differ over your design capability.


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## Bilal9

Doyalbaba said:


> http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19..._Build_6_Guided_Missile_Frigates_Indigenously
> 
> *Bangladesh Navy To Build 6 Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously*
> Our Bureau
> 03:43 PM, July 14, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bangladesh Navy To Build 6 Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously
> 
> In line with Armed Forces Goal 2030 modernization program, the Bangladesh Navy has vowed to build its warships indigenously from its shipyards across the country, instead of completely relying on foreign ship builders.
> 
> Chittagong Dry Dock Limited, one of the three shipyards operated by the Bangladesh Navy, has taken up a project to build 6 guided missile frigates, which if as planned will be indigenously built, Bangladesh Military Forces website bdmilitary.com reported Friday.
> 
> Chittagong port is also expected to manufacture smaller patrol vessels for the country’s coast guard in technical cooperation with an Italian shipbuilding giant.
> 
> The other two Navy shipyards – Khulna shipyard and Dockyard & Engineering works will also be assigned unnamed projects.
> 
> The Bangladeshi Navy has a number of vessels and aircraft on order which ranges from old U.S. Coast Guard cutters and indigenously built patrol vessels, to Chinese built/refurbished corvettes and a budding new aviation wing comprising a handful of helicopters and fixed wing aircraft.




Since this is an Indian Defence media site, I guess things have finally sunk in to Indian Defence circles.

http://www.defenseworld.net/contact


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> I never doubted your ability to build a frigate,but I differ over your design capability.



With Chinese consultants helping it can be easily done.
After these frigates are built with Chinese assistance, then the next ones can have a hull designed
completely in BD.
Over a span of 2-3 decades, BD can incorporate more and more indigenous sub-components like sensors 
and missiles into it's warships.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> After these frigates are built with Chinese assistance, then the next ones can have a hull designed
> completely in BD.



After completing this 6 ?


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> After completing this 6 ?



I think it would be after the whole program in total - could be 6 or more.


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## Bilal9

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I would like to hear more about indias current aircraft carrier from @Penguin and his thoughts on regards to what US military have to say about Indian AC
> 
> We certainly have the industry, manpower and capability to build such a ship. Funding is only needed but it's smart to incorporate licensed built tech into own design than developing a new system altogether wasting resources. Many car companies do this nowadays licensing, leasing or co developing software, tech needed to push forward as its more economically viable for economically small nation. Ex EUROPE and US



With all due respect to your view - the time isn't really ripe to go into building AC's for Bangladesh Navy. Only Thailand is an exception (their AC built in Spain is rather small and is known jokingly as the world's largest 'Royal yacht').

AC have to be justified by naval doctrine and AFAIK ours does not dictate one - yet. The Vikrant being built in India is only 40,000 tons, rather small by US standards (newer US AC's are all in the 100,000 ton class).

We could however start small by inducting LHA's or Helicopter carriers, which is where modern naval thinking for amphibious operations is going for parking a support ship offshore. The Japanese are big proponents of LHA's. Here is JDS Hyuga.







Here is the ENS Anwar El Sadat Heli-Carrier of the Egyptian Navy (French Mistral class),





The bottom door in the rear opens to allow amphibious tanks and LCTs to carry troops and reinforcements off shore while the top is a landing pad for Helis.

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## rustom

gslv mk3 said:


> I never doubted your ability to build a frigate,but I differ over your design capability.


Sir, lets not piss on BD parade on this tread. Most members in this forum use BD or china flag are Pakistanis to create animosity between Indians and neighbors .


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## gslv mk3

Bilal9 said:


> With all due respect to your view - the time isn't really ripe to go into building AC's for Bangladesh Navy.



He is talking about building frigates.

And don't you think that you must build a commercial vessel comparable in size before dreaming about ACs ?



Bilal9 said:


> The Vikrant being built in India is only 40,000 tons, rather small by US standards



And huge by Bangladeshi standards, if there is one.


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## Spy Master

gslv mk3 said:


> He is talking about building frigates.
> 
> And don't you think that you must build a commercial vessel comparable in size before dreaming about ACs ?
> 
> 
> 
> And huge by Bangladeshi standards, if there is one.


what are yo trying to prove ? that India is mighty in this field? grow up man...this thread is related to Bangladesh and instead of congratulating them, as usual you particularly of all Indians are whining about this and that, show me your indigenous capability blah blah blah...behaving like a 8th grade kid...we know how indigenous your products are...just don't pollute this thread with proving that India is light years ahead and all others are still in stone age...!

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## gslv mk3

Spy Master said:


> what are yo trying to prove ? that India is mighty in this field? grow up man...this thread is related to Bangladesh and instead of congratulating them, as usual you particularly of all Indians are whining about this and that, show me your indigenous capability blah blah blah...behaving like a 8th grade kid...we know how indigenous your products are...just don't pollute this thread with India is light years ahead and all others are still in stone age...!



Too much India hatred has affected your thinking. Bangladeshi members were bragging about 'Indigenous design capability'- I asked for a proof of the same. simple.

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## Imran Khan

good for BD navy

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## Spy Master

gslv mk3 said:


> Too much India hatred has affected your thinking. Bangladeshi members were bragging about 'Indigenous design capability'- I asked for a proof of the same. simple.


In second post he clearly said it will be a joint design with China and over time it will be BDs own...!
Its you who is suffering from inferiority complex, classic example of a person trying to prove everywhere that I am the best...!

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## gslv mk3

Spy Master said:


> In second post he clearly said it will be a joint design with China and over time it will be BDs own...!



Did you miss the 'hull will be Bangladeshi part' ?


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## Spy Master

gslv mk3 said:


> Did you miss the 'hull will be Bangladeshi part' ?


So what...when he said it will be BD's I believe it will be theirs and they can do it if they are determined to do it...should they prove to you first that they can do it and then ask for permission?

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## gslv mk3

Spy Master said:


> So what...when he said it will be BD's I believe it will be theirs and they can do it if they are determined to do it...should they prove to you first that they can do it and then ask for permission?



You got no clue of what you are talking about. So I wouldn't say anything,


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## Spy Master

gslv mk3 said:


> You got no clue of what you are talking about. So I wouldn't say anything,


K


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## MadDog

Good News. Its good to see a Muslim majority state develop indigenous defence equipment.

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## UKBengali

MadDog said:


> Good News. Its good to see a Muslim majority state develop indigenous defence equipment.



Thanks Bro. This is the start of a road that will take many decades in order to reach full
self-sufficiency.

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## UKBengali

Grevion said:


> Bangladesh can go and mingle with their parent country for all they want just don't come to us crying like you guys did the last time when things go South.
> 
> Always remember your fallen heros and the ideology for which they fought for and you will find India always standing right by your side.



Dude, BD and Pakistan have no interest in re-uniting.

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## Penguin

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I would like to hear more about indias current aircraft carrier from @Penguin and his thoughts on regards to what US military have to say about Indian AC


Good choice for COGAG propulsion (whether 4 LM2500+ or 4 Ukrainian Gtu's)
Self defence armament seems ok (4x 76mm Oto + 2 sets of VLS > likely 2x(2x8)=32 Barak 8)
Operational concept similar to Kuznetsov/Liaoning (and follow on)
Reasonably size airgroup, whether Mig-29K or other.

If and when it all finally comes together, not a bad ship imho (but that seems to be the problem, with design modifications and stuff ordered and coming in late from Russia etc).

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## Michael Corleone

Bilal9 said:


> With all due respect to your view - the time isn't really ripe to go into building AC's for Bangladesh Navy. Only Thailand is an exception (their AC built in Spain is rather small and is known jokingly as the world's largest 'Royal yacht').
> 
> AC have to be justified by naval doctrine and AFAIK ours does not dictate one - yet. The Vikrant being built in India is only 40,000 tons, rather small by US standards (newer US AC's are all in the 100,000 ton class).
> 
> We could however start small by inducting LHA's or Helicopter carriers, which is where modern naval thinking for amphibious operations is going for parking a support ship offshore. The Japanese are big proponents of LHA's. Here is JDS Hyuga.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is the ENS Anwar El Sadat Heli-Carrier of the Egyptian Navy (French Mistral class),
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The bottom door in the rear opens to allow amphibious tanks and LCTs to carry troops and reinforcements off shore while the top is a landing pad for Helis.


I was talking about frigates, corvettes and such. Bangladesh can't build aircraft carrier even in the near future. There is no need for such either.


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## TopCat

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I was talking about frigates, corvettes and such. Bangladesh can't build aircraft carrier even in the near future. There is no need for such either.



A country first need to build an aircraft before thinking of building a carrier for it. Only India could be an exception to it...

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> A country first need to build an aircraft before thinking of building a carrier for it. Only India could be an exception to it...



lol, funny. There are numerous countries which operated one without developing the an aircraft.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> lol, funny. There are numerous countries which operated one without developing the an aircraft.


Can you name one?


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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> A country first need to build an aircraft before thinking of building a carrier for it. Only India could be an exception to it...


India does such things in scores. They do it only to lift their face in the international community. For India, many such things are just prestige projects.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> A country first need to build an aircraft before thinking of building a carrier for it. Only India could be an exception to it...


Fighters for carriers and fighters for grounds are designed a bit differently....
And there are many countries that had an aircraft carrier without making the jets first


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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Can you name one?



Heard of HMAS Melbourne ? HMAS Sydney ? Italian Aircraft Carrier Cavour ?



bluesky said:


> India does such things in scores. They do it only to lift their face in the international community. For India, many such things are just prestige projects.



Sure, so says someone from a country which saw the effectiveness of Indian carrier air arm in 1971. Remember how the ports of Chittagong, Khulna & Chalna were disabled in 1971 by the Sea hawks & the Alizes.

_During the 1971 India-Pakistan conflict, the 18 aircraft White Tiger squadron embarked INS Vikrant on August 1971 and was ready for operations by November. Air strikes commenced on 4 December 1971 against targets in erstwhile East Pakistan. The first strike consisting of 8 Seahawks wrecked the facilities at Cox's Bazaar. In a mere 10 days, between 4 and 14 December, air strikes accounted for more than 100,776 tonnes of Pakistani shipping sunk and targets destroyed at Cox's Bazaar, Chittagong, Khulna, Chalna, Mongla, Do Harisal, Barisal, Chiringa and Bakarganj including airfields, shipping, AA positions, oil fields, ammunition dumps, harbours and troop positions. When the conflict ended, INAS 300 had not suffered a single loss. The squadron won one Maha Vir Chakra, five Vir Chakras, one Nao sena medal and four Mentions in Despatches._

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Heard of HMAS Melbourne ? HMAS Sydney ? Italian Aircraft Carrier Cavour ?


2nd ww relics.
Only countries which can make aircraft actually can field a ac in real war scenario. Others can only use that for show and supa pawa dream.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> 2nd ww relics.



Lol, HMAS melbourne operated till 1982, Cavour was commissioned in 2008.



TopCat said:


> Only countries which can make aircraft actually can field a ac in real war scenario. Others can only use that for show and supa pawa dream.



Meh....history says otherwise. No wonder why Bangladeshis stay LDC, they are way too ignorant.



gslv mk3 said:


> During the 1971 India-Pakistan conflict, the 18 aircraft White Tiger squadron embarked INS Vikrant on August 1971 and was ready for operations by November. Air strikes commenced on 4 December 1971 against targets in erstwhile East Pakistan. *The first strike consisting of 8 Seahawks wrecked the facilities at Cox's Bazaar. In a mere 10 days, between 4 and 14 December, air strikes accounted for more than 100,776 tonnes of Pakistani shipping sunk and targets destroyed at Cox's Bazaar, Chittagong, Khulna, Chalna, Mongla, Do Harisal, Barisal, Chiringa and Bakarganj including airfields, shipping, AA positions, oil fields, ammunition dumps, harbours and troop positions.* When the conflict ended, INAS 300 had not suffered a single loss. The squadron won one Maha Vir Chakra, five Vir Chakras, one Nao sena medal and four Mentions in Despatches.


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Lol, HMAS melbourne operated till 1982, Cavour was commissioned in 2008.


Cavour???? YOu mean Italy does not produce fighter jet???

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Cavour???? YOu mean Italy does not produce fighter jet???



It does not develop & manufacture the AV-8B Harrier used on the Cavour.


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## ghost250

TopCat said:


> Cavour???? YOu mean Italy does not produce fighter jet???


no...only "cow mataram india" can produce fighter jets...

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## Penguin

TopCat said:


> 2nd ww relics.
> Only countries which can make aircraft actually can field a ac in real war scenario. Others can only use that for show and supa pawa dream.


WW2 relic?








gslv mk3 said:


> It does not develop & manufacture the AV-8B Harrier used on the Cavour.


Like the Netherlands, Italy is a level Two partner in the F-35. 

Participant nations:
Primary customer: United States
Level 1 partner: United Kingdom
Level 2 partners: Italy and the Netherlands
Level 3 partners: Australia, Canada, Denmark, Norway, and Turkey

As Level 2 partners, Italy is contributing US$1 billion and the Netherlands US$800 million to F-35 development.

Alenia will perform final assembly for Italy and, according to an Alenia executive, assembly of all European F-35 aircraft, with the exception of those for Turkey and the United Kingdom.

Italy will take up to 60 F-35A for its air force and 15 F-35B for its navy (i.e. for Cavour)

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Grevion said:


> Bangladesh can go and mingle with their parent country for all they want just don't come to us crying like you guys did the last time when things go South.
> 
> Always remember your fallen heros and the ideology for which they fought for and you will find India always standing right by your side.



well, your definition of parenthood seem to be based on who your grandparents are - the British.... unfortunately, that's not the definition we follow.... your granddaddies (UK and US) are in trouble now..... so, your concern should concentrate on who should be your next granddaddy....

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## gslv mk3

Penguin said:


> Like the Netherlands, Italy is a level Two partner in the F-35.



I know but AV-8B harrier was the first one used on it


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## Grevion

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> well, your definition of parenthood seem to be based on who your grandparents are - the British.... unfortunately, that's not the definition we follow.... your granddaddies (UK and US) are in trouble now..... so, your concern should concentrate on who should be your next granddaddy....


How did the US came into picture? The Brits, ok,but then they were your grandparents too and how they both are in trouble?
So what's your definition of 'granddaddies'

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## Penguin

gslv mk3 said:


> I know but AV-8B harrier was the first one used on it


Because these were already available in Italian service, from the preceeding (and much smaler) Guissepe Garibaldi. _Cavour_ will have room for ten F-35Bs in the hangar, and six more parked on deck. As opposed to 8 AV-8B now, from Garibaldi.

Same as with Spain, which had the AV-8A on the Dedalo (ex USS _Cabot_ CVL) and then AV-8A and AV-8B on Principe d'Asturias sea control ship and now on the Juan Carlos _Buque de Proyección Estratégica_ (Strategic Projection Vessel) LHA/LHD.

Guiseppe Garibaldi (14k ton).

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## BDforever

Penguin said:


> Because these were already available in Italian service, from the preceeding (and much smaler) Guissepe Garibaldi. _Cavour_ will have room for ten F-35Bs in the hangar, and six more parked on deck. As opposed to 8 AV-8B now, from Garibaldi.
> 
> Same as with Spain, which had the AV-8A on the Dedalo (ex USS _Cabot_ CVL) and then AV-8A and AV-8B on Principe d'Asturias sea control ship and now on the Juan Carlos _Buque de Proyección Estratégica_ (Strategic Projection Vessel) LHA/LHD.
> 
> Guiseppe Garibaldi (14k ton).


bro, how is BD Navy progressing in your opinion ?

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## Bilal9

TopCat said:


> Cavour???? YOu mean Italy does not produce fighter jet???



Italy does produce the AMX in JV with Brazil, unless that's not what you guys are referring to...the ones used in its AC are all Vertical lift-off jets.



Penguin said:


> Because these were already available in Italian service, from the preceeding (and much smaler) Guissepe Garibaldi. _Cavour_ will have room for ten F-35Bs in the hangar, and six more parked on deck. As opposed to 8 AV-8B now, from Garibaldi.
> 
> Same as with Spain, which had the AV-8A on the Dedalo (ex USS _Cabot_ CVL) and then AV-8A and AV-8B on Principe d'Asturias sea control ship and now on the Juan Carlos _Buque de Proyección Estratégica_ (Strategic Projection Vessel) LHA/LHD.
> 
> Guiseppe Garibaldi (14k ton).



These are light aircraft carriers. Similar to LHA amphibious assault ship that I mentioned in another thread. This is the Republic of Korea amphibious assault ship ROKS Dokdo (LPH-6111) below (it supports a complement of ten MH-60 helis and vertical take off jets (F35s in the future), weighing in also at 14000 tons.


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## TopCat

Bilal9 said:


> Italy does produce the AMX in JV with Brazil, unless that's not what you guys are referring to...the ones used in its AC are all Vertical lift-off jets.


Italy has 21% stake in eurofighter.

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## Penguin

BDforever said:


> bro, how is BD Navy progressing in your opinion ?


I'm flabbergasted at what ships they add to navy and to coast guard



Bilal9 said:


> Italy does produce the AMX in JV with Brazil, unless that's not what you guys are referring to...the ones used in its AC are all Vertical lift-off jets.
> 
> 
> 
> These are light aircraft carriers. Similar to LHA amphibious assault ship that I mentioned in another thread. This is the Republic of Korea amphibious assault ship ROKS Dokdo (LPH-6111) below (it supports a complement of ten MH-60 helis and vertical take off jets (F35s in the future), weighing in also at 14000 tons.


Cavour is not an LPH/A. Cavour is designed with F-35B in mind.
Dokdo is not a carrier. Dokdo doesn't carry and will need modification to accept F-35B. Just like Spanish Juan Carlos. It's 19,000 tons full load displacement.
ROKN doesn't have any STOVL/VTOL jets, nor has it ordered F-35B.

Just because its flattopped don't make it a carrier.

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## Bilal9

Penguin said:


> I'm flabbergasted at what ships they add to navy and to coast guard


Still a bit miffed at the Italian corvettes converted to OPVs, eh?

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## Penguin

Bilal9 said:


> Still a bit miffed at the Italian corvettes converted to OPVs, eh?


Very! While turning RN OPVs into corvettes.... 
The Minerva's are such handsome ships.

Standardization with Type 056:

Bow sonar

1 × PJ26 76 mm dual purpose gun
2× 2-cell (4-cell?) YJ-83 anti-ship missiles, amidships
2 × triple 324 mm. torpedo tubes
Type 347G radar

1 × 8-cell FL-3000N SAM launcher, in place of the Selenia Fire control SPG-75 (RTN 30X) 

2 × H/PJ15 30 mm cannon
Aviation facilities: Helipad for 1 medium-lift helicopter
Towed array and variable depth sonar






As compared to

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## BDforever

Penguin said:


> Very! While turning RN OPVs into corvettes....
> The Minerva's are such handsome ships.
> 
> Standardization with Type 056:
> 
> Bow sonar
> 
> 1 × PJ26 76 mm dual purpose gun
> 2× 2-cell (4-cell?) YJ-83 anti-ship missiles, amidships
> 2 × triple 324 mm. torpedo tubes
> Type 347G radar
> 
> 1 × 8-cell FL-3000N SAM launcher, in place of the Selenia Fire control SPG-75 (RTN 30X)
> 
> 2 × H/PJ15 30 mm cannon
> Aviation facilities: Helipad for 1 medium-lift helicopter
> Towed array and variable depth sonar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As compared to


FYI, these two are going to be further upgraded with weapons, radars and sensors

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## Penguin

BDforever said:


> FYI, these two are going to be further upgraded with weapons, radars and sensors


Keep me posted ;-)

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## 帅的一匹

gslv mk3 said:


> Moron, we developed hull forms for a 8000 tonne destroyer & a 7000 tonne frigate on our own. And not to forget, the aircraft carrier.
> 
> Even your Padma class LPC is a foreign design. Deal with it.


Indian floating garbage hit water





China 001A hit water

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## mb444

wanglaokan said:


> Indian floating garbage hit water
> View attachment 412212
> 
> 
> China 001A hit water
> 
> View attachment 412213


 What on earth is that vicranth thing... is that the complete aircraft carrier.... lmao...

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Grevion said:


> How did the US came into picture? The Brits, ok,but then they were your grandparents too and how they both are in trouble?
> So what's your definition of 'granddaddies'



the term "parents" were used by you, not by any of us..... this is because we simply don't believe in such concept, even though you do.... and as we are not aligned with the "parents" concept, the question of granddaddies doesn't arise even....

and oh, to find your grandparents, go read the letters of Winston Churchill written to Franklin Roosevelt during the Second World War.... you can concentrate on the conversation on India....

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

mb444 said:


> What on earth is that vicranth thing... is that the complete aircraft carrier.... lmao...



ha ha.... well, if that's a complete one, that would resemble the earliest carriers that didn't have any island superstructure....

anyway, it doesn't look so bad, does it?..... just the very fact that its an Indian ship can of course put us off balance... but in my case, the very fact that its an Indian ship, makes me relaxed!! 



Bilal9 said:


> Still a bit miffed at the Italian corvettes converted to OPVs, eh?



more weird stuff on the cards, brother.... 
definitions are being rewritten.... so, you'll see things that wouldn't fall under any current definitions.... 
and obviously it will confuse more-or-less everyone else who work based on definitions they receive from others....

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## bluesky

Is this not a tug boat built in India?

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## gslv mk3

wanglaokan said:


> Indian floating garbage hit water





mb444 said:


> What on earth is that vicranth thing





bluesky said:


> Is this not a tug boat built in India?



It is not a cheap copy of any Russian carrier with steam propulsion... 








Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> just the very fact that its an Indian ship can of course put us off balance... but in my case, the very fact that its an Indian ship, makes me relaxed!!



Sure, as if it's predecessor couldn't do anything for Bangladesh...

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## TopCat

bluesky said:


> Is this not a tug boat built in India?



Learn to make an aircraft before a carrier.

This is the resultant of flouting this "TopCat Law 1".

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Learn to make an aircraft before a carrier.
> 
> This is the resultant of flouting this "TopCat Law 1".

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> View attachment 412250


World does not revolve around Indian standard. 
Kaveri Engine 40 years R&D is a prime example.

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## Penguin

wanglaokan said:


> Indian floating garbage hit water
> China 001A hit water


False comparison. Rather a low blow for an elite member....

INS Vikrant undocked on 10 Jun 2015 at a simple ceremony at the Cochin Shipyard Limited.










IAC Vikrant
Laid down 28 February 2009. The ship was launched on 12 August 2013. 75% of the construction work had been completed at the time of launching. After the launch, _Vikrant_ was re-docked for the second phase of construction, in which the ship will be fitted with various weapons and sensors, and the propulsion system, flight deck and the aircraft complex will be integrated. In December 2014 it was reported that _Vikrant_ will be commissioned by 2018. Realistically, it will likely be 2020.






Type 001 Liaoning:
Originally built by Nikolayev, Ukraine. Laid down 6 Dec 1985, launched 4 Dec 1988 as _Riga_, renamed _Varyag_ late 1990. Construction stopped by 1992 when the ship was structurally complete but electronics had not been fitted. Propulsion installed but non-operational._ Varyag_ was moved in June 2005 to a dry dock at Dalian. The ship undertook her first sea trials from 10 August 2011 to 15 August 2011. On 23 September 2012, the aircraft carrier was handed over to the PLAN, and was commissioned on 25 September 2012. On 26 December 2012, the _People's Daily_ reported that it would take four to five years for the _Liaoning_ to reach full capacity.


Type 001A
The ship was laid down in 2013 at the Dalian naval shipyard and was launched on 26 April 2017. It is expected to embark on sea trials in 2019. It may then well be another year before she will be commissioned by PLAN.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> World does not revolve around Indian standard.
> Kaveri Engine 40 years R&D is a prime example.



What about your own standards, less scientific output than sub saharan Zambia ?

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## Penguin

gslv mk3 said:


> It is not a cheap copy of any Russian carrier with steam propulsion...


Steam turbines yes, but oil burning. Much like INS Jalashwa (former USS Trenton)



TopCat said:


> Learn to make an aircraft before a carrier.
> 
> This is the resultant of flouting this "TopCat Law 1".


What aircraft does your country make?

Folks, this thread is about the Bangladesh navy and its plan to built 6 frigates indegenously. Please stick to topic, do not derail the thread with BS posts which are only duck-measuring.
Thank you.

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## Gibbs

Penguin said:


> Please stick to topic, do not derail the thread with BS posts which are only duck-measuring.
> Thank you.



Funny thing is both parties are bottom of the barrel, Throwing barrel crap at each other claiming who has better shyt.. Rather annoying couple of weeks here in PDF with all these Bangladesh vs India dick measuring threads all over.. No wonder South Asians will always take one step forward and two steps back, cos they keep pulling each other down

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## TopCat

Gibbs said:


> Funny thing is both parties are bottom of the barrel, Throwing barrel crap at each other claiming who has better shyt.. Rather annoying couple of weeks here in PDF with all these Bangladesh vs India dick measuring threads all over.. No wonder South Asians will always take one step forward and two steps back, cos they keep pulling each other down



Dude, BD is not even in barrel, and calling a duck is a duck is what needed in the south Asia not what you are suggesting. When 60% of the population out of basic sanitation, 50% of the population on the border line of famine and they are building a AC to screw its neighbor, should at least be talked about it.

You are from Sri Lanka right? Look how Indians shoved you with a LPC so that you dont acquire any significant military hardware from anywhere else. When they dont want you to acquire military independence why would you yourself promoting them their military build up? You like it or not, neither BD nor PK or China will let India have a free run.

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## Gibbs

TopCat said:


> Dude, BD is not even in barrel, and calling a duck is a duck is what needed in the south Asia not what you are suggesting. When 60% of the population out of basic sanitation, 50% of the population on the border line of famine and they are building a AC to screw its neighbor, should at least be talked about it.
> 
> You are from Sri Lanka right? Look how Indians shoved you with a LPC so that you dont acquire any significant military hardware from anywhere else. When they dont want you to acquire military independence why would you yourself promoting them their military build up? You like it or not, neither BD nor PK or China will let India have a free run.



It doesn't matter where i'm really from, If any non South Asian read the contents of most threads here they'll laugh their arses off, Bunch of hobo's fighting over mediocrity

I appreciate any development made whether it's in Bangladesh, India or Pakistan, And not be a third class wanker with bruised little ego's belittling others achievements

That's the mentality that will keep South Asians at the bottom of the barrel

Anyway i wouldn't have bothered to comment if not for every conceivable thread have been hijacked by these dick measuring contests, It's begiining to get annoying

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## TopCat

Gibbs said:


> It doesn't matter where i'm really from, If any non South Asian read the contents of most threads here they'll laugh their arses off, Bunch of hobo's fighting over mediocrity
> 
> I appreciate any development made whether it's in Bangladesh, India or Pakistan, And not be a third class wanker with bruised little ego's belittling others achievements
> 
> That's the mentality that will keep South Asians at the bottom of the barrel


Make good use of your time checking out the LPC you got instead of participating ego centric threads.
Ego is what makes an army great.


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## Avicenna

Gibbs said:


> It doesn't matter where i'm really from, If any non South Asian read the contents of most threads here they'll laugh their arses off, Bunch of hobo's fighting over mediocrity
> 
> I appreciate any development made whether it's in Bangladesh, India or Pakistan, And not be a third class wanker with bruised little ego's belittling others achievements
> 
> That's the mentality that will keep South Asians at the bottom of the barrel
> 
> Anyway i wouldn't have bothered to comment if not for every conceivable thread have been hijacked by these dick measuring contests, It's begiining to get annoying



Great post. 

But this goes 360 degrees for individuals of all south asian nationalities posting on this thread.

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

gslv mk3 said:


> Sure, as if it's predecessor couldn't do anything for Bangladesh...



ah.... that random one?.... 



Gibbs said:


> Funny thing is both parties are bottom of the barrel, Throwing barrel crap at each other claiming who has better shyt.. Rather annoying couple of weeks here in PDF with all these Bangladesh vs India dick measuring threads all over.. No wonder South Asians will always take one step forward and two steps back, cos they keep pulling each other down



that's a good observation, my friend....
but you know, its that competition that keeps them vibrant..... boring discussion with everyone measuring their words is for literary debates.... this is a defence forum with people discussion on stuff that are designed to kill humans and the like....

aggression is a must.... though it goes through the roof sometimes....
but the measuring contest you've mentioned, I have to say that we're not really talking of measurement scales.... only the numbers are in discussion.... and even the most sane of discussion threads aren't really talking about scales.... is it because of decline in thoughts or perhaps the drive to topple a competition isn't there....

any thoughts?


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## gslv mk3

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> ah.... that random one?....



So you're a noob in history too ?


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## Beast

gslv mk3 said:


> It is not a cheap copy of any Russian carrier with steam propulsion...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, as if it's predecessor couldn't do anything for Bangladesh...


Type 001a carrier is still much superior than this Indian carrier. Larger hangar and bigger space. Indian carrier is small and very limited in carrying capacity. 

Kuznetsov hull is a very good hull to start with. It wide and big unlike the Indian carrier which is too small for any future upgrade and will be very limited. 

You ask the Italian to design for you and brag as indigenous design. What a joke!

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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

gslv mk3 said:


> So you're a noob in history too ?



oh!... is this yet another random one??
oh, I missed it then....

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## gslv mk3

Beast said:


> You ask the Italian to design for you and brag as indigenous design. What a joke!



More BS. It was designed by Indian DND.

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## bluesky

Beast said:


> You ask the *Italian to design for you* and brag as indigenous design. What a joke!


Indians love to propagate BMW and Toyota as their own brands only because they have assembling plants there. Well, bragging of anything is their culture.

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## gslv mk3

bluesky said:


> Indians love to propagate BMW and Toyota as their own brands only because they have assembling plants there. Well, bragging of anything is their culture.



Lol, stupid much ?

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## Penguin

Beast said:


> Type 001a carrier is still much superior than this Indian carrier. Larger hangar and bigger space. Indian carrier is small and very limited in carrying capacity.


Of course, limited is determined by what you had in mind in the first place.



Beast said:


> Kuznetsov hull is a very good hull to start with. It wide and big unlike the Indian carrier which is too small for any future upgrade and will be very limited.


What nonsense: you have no insight into the built in margin of this design. No upgrade would ever turn it into a Kuznetsov sized ship . But that doesn't say anything about margin for upgrading that this design offers. IAC-2, which would be another homemade carrier but would displace more than 60,000 tons, 20,000 tons more than Vikrant. This _IS _much comparable to 001A. Anyway, it's an evolutionary development, just ast 001A is relative to preceeding 001 and succeeding 002.



Beast said:


> You ask the Italian to design for you and brag as indigenous design. What a joke!


The first ever aircraft carrier to be designed by the Directorate of Naval Design of the Indian Navy is actually based on a DCN (French) design. The 2004 contract with Fincantieri has not apparently effected the overall outward configuration of the design, only the propulsion layout, indicating that the original DCN contract most likely did not cover detail design. The island, however, clearly shows Fincantieri influences (compare to Cavour), But no doubt the Russians (Severnoye design bureau) have also provided key input e.g. ski-jump.

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## Avicenna

Ideas_R_Bulletproof said:


> ah.... that random one?....
> 
> 
> 
> that's a good observation, my friend....
> but you know, its that competition that keeps them vibrant..... boring discussion with everyone measuring their words is for literary debates.... this is a defence forum with people discussion on stuff that are designed to kill humans and the like....
> 
> aggression is a must.... though it goes through the roof sometimes....
> but the measuring contest you've mentioned, I have to say that we're not really talking of measurement scales.... only the numbers are in discussion.... and even the most sane of discussion threads aren't really talking about scales.... is it because of decline in thoughts or perhaps the drive to topple a competition isn't there....
> 
> any thoughts?



What aggression buddy? This "aggression" is called keyboard warriorism. Its very easy when your sitting at home, anonymous, sipping a chai as you type out your "aggression".

Its childish, non constructive, and when viewed from those without any real interest in whats being argued, cheapens the the message thread. 

In PDF, this is a message forum where we can all indulge our interests in various topics with those across the world that share those interests. The vast majority of the population, dont really care about the things we talk about. 

However, there are some threads on PDF which have mature, really thoughtful, useful, comments. And then there are those that are like this.

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## monitor

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-navy-indigenous-frigate-development-program.501481/unread

please merge as both discussing same topics . @waz and other mod .

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Lol, stupid much ?


Americans never accepted honda or Toyota as their natives despite been built in America...
You Indians have no shame whose parliament think 40% of NASA employees are Indian base on a spam fake mail

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## bluesky

TopCat said:


> Americans never accepted honda or Toyota as their natives despite been built in America...
> You Indians have no shame whose parliament think 40% of NASA employees are Indian base on a spam fake male


Someday, these Indians will claim American Red Indians are their true cousins, but with different DNA and faces.

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## gslv mk3

bluesky said:


> Someday, these Indians will claim American Red Indians are their true cousins, but with different DNA and faces.





TopCat said:


> Americans never accepted honda or Toyota as their natives despite been built in America...



The point there is Indian made cars, not Indian brands. However manufacturers such as Suzuki has R&D centers which has developed it's own designs.

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## Flynn Swagmire

bluesky said:


> Someday, these Indians will claim American Red Indians are their true cousins, but with different DNA and faces.


What about Apache, Comanche and others?

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## bluesky

gslv mk3 said:


> The point there is Indian made cars, not Indian brands. However manufacturers such as Suzuki has R&D centers which has developed it's own designs.


It may be true what you said. But, branding itself as your own is off the mark. Suzuki remains a Japanese company though it has business, assembling plants and R&W in some other countries. Point is the center of management. It is always Tokyo HQ.


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## Ideas_R_Bulletproof

Avicenna said:


> What aggression buddy? This "aggression" is called keyboard warriorism. Its very easy when your sitting at home, anonymous, sipping a chai as you type out your "aggression".
> 
> Its childish, non constructive, and when viewed from those without any real interest in whats being argued, cheapens the the message thread.
> 
> In PDF, this is a message forum where we can all indulge our interests in various topics with those across the world that share those interests. The vast majority of the population, dont really care about the things we talk about.
> 
> However, there are some threads on PDF which have mature, really thoughtful, useful, comments. And then there are those that are like this.



plz don't judge everyone by your reality....


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## dray

Bangladesh Navy To Build how many Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously by *2030* @UKBengali ?

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## Nike

Rain Man said:


> Bangladesh Navy To Build how many Guided Missile Frigates Indigenously by *2030* @UKBengali ?



the thread itself doesnt present the so called indigenous design let alone mock up or model scale in first place

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## BanglarBagh

madokafc said:


> the thread itself doesnt present the so called indigenous design let alone mock up or model scale in first place



the title of the thread is 'Indigenous Built' not 'Indigenous Design'!! Please clearly note the difference. The design will be done by CSSC in China according to BN requirements!!!

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## Nabil365

BanglarBagh said:


> the title of the thread is 'Indigenous Built' not 'Indigenous Design'!! Please clearly note the difference. The design will be done by CSSC in China according to BN requirements!!!


Maids don't have brain thus fail to understand

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## Flynn Swagmire

madokafc said:


> the thread itself doesnt present the so called indigenous design let alone mock up or model scale in first place


U la la, have you read the thread title? 

Or, you just commented to show your suppa wisdom? 

BTW, two fags licked your wisdom. You're genius...

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## Avicenna

Please gentleman, lets have respect for a lady. Agree or disagree, maintain the respect.


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## Nike

OrdinaryGenius said:


> U la la, have you read the thread title?
> 
> Or, you just commented to show your suppa wisdom?
> 
> BTW, two fags licked your wisdom. You're genius...



so so the wisdom of BD is just stop till there

the so called indigenous build is only a pipe dream then

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## Avicenna

Not a pipe dream. 

Hopefully, shipbuilding will take hold more so as an industry in Bangladesh.

And there has already been construction of smaller naval vessels in Bangladesh.

Bangladesh CAN NOT design naval vessels. But then again how many countries can design and construct the subsystems needed that comprise a modern warship. 

But in terms of construction and assembly, sure why not.

Finally, all this negativity towards Bangladesh.... A nation of 160 million plus. The potential of which is just barely being realized. With a rich history, and intelligent, industrious people. 

So please. Stop with the hate.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> *Bangladesh CAN NOT design naval vessels. But then again how many countries can design and construct the subsystems needed that comprise a modern warship. *


Where did you get this? 1000s of ships and ferries are designed built and operated in Bangladesh. There is a dedicated department in Shipping Ministry to approve design.


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## Flynn Swagmire

madokafc said:


> so so the wisdom of BD is just stop till there
> 
> the so called indigenous build is only a pipe dream then


You're a genius! Fags lick you...

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## Nike

Avicenna said:


> Not a pipe dream.
> 
> Hopefully, shipbuilding will take hold more so as an industry in Bangladesh.
> 
> And there has already been construction of smaller naval vessels in Bangladesh.
> 
> Bangladesh CAN NOT design naval vessels. But then again how many countries can design and construct the subsystems needed that comprise a modern warship.
> 
> But in terms of construction and assembly, sure why not.
> 
> Finally, all this negativity towards Bangladesh.... A nation of 160 million plus. The potential of which is just barely being realized. With a rich history, and intelligent, industrious people.
> 
> So please. Stop with the hate.



it doesnt matter which design Bangladesh will built it first fregate, either it is their own design (like Myanmar Kya Shinta class) or imported design like ours and Singapore get from Dutch or France (Formidable or SIGMA). What matter the most is, the thread title said Bangladesh will/soon/to built their fregate but there is no indication BD had working or cooperation with foreign countries to built such design.

The only hints is BD will built Corvette based on type 56 design. But thats only a corvette, not such mumbo jumbo AAW frigate like many member said

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## Avicenna

Most likely the thread title is inaccurate. Time will tell. But even if it probably IS the Type 056. Either way, good for Bangladesh.


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## BDforever

Avicenna said:


> Most likely the thread title is inaccurate. Time will tell. But even if it probably IS the Type 056. Either way, good for Bangladesh.





madokafc said:


> it doesnt matter which design Bangladesh will built it first fregate, either it is their own design (like Myanmar Kya Shinta class) or imported design like ours and Singapore get from Dutch or France (Formidable or SIGMA). What matter the most is, the thread title said Bangladesh will/soon/to built their fregate but there is no indication BD had working or cooperation with foreign countries to built such design.
> 
> The only hints is BD will built Corvette based on type 56 design. But thats only a corvette, not such mumbo jumbo AAW frigate like many member said


Home Minister himself said 6 frigates will be build (very specified), so he is lying too ?

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## Aung Zaya

madokafc said:


> it doesnt matter which design Bangladesh will built it first fregate, either it is their own design (like Myanmar Kya Shinta class) or imported design like ours and Singapore get from Dutch or France (Formidable or SIGMA). What matter the most is, the thread title said Bangladesh will/soon/to built their fregate but there is no indication BD had working or cooperation with foreign countries to built such design.
> 
> The only hints is BD will built Corvette based on type 56 design. But thats only a corvette, not such mumbo jumbo AAW frigate like many member said


u ruined their dream. sis
they cant even start to build type 056 corvette which was agreed 3 years ago.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> u ruined their dream. sis
> they cant even start to build type 056 corvette which was agreed 3 years ago.


Are you slow or something?
The project is for 8x056 corvette. 4 in China and 4 in BD. 2 already delivered 2 in the shipyard of China. After 4, the next 4 will be built in Khulna shipyard.
This 6 frigates in question will be built in completely new shipyard called Chittagong Dry Dock Limited http://www.cddl.gov.bd/

Besideds new ships being built, BD will continue buying ships from China. 2 more 053H3 going to join early 2018. So you can keep dreaming.

Kyan Sitta type sitting duck does not meet our requirement. Otherwise our local shipyards who makes wooden boats would had built them for couple of million dollar.

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## Nabil365

Soon BD soldiers will be equally armed to Super stealthy kyan sittha frigates

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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> This 6 frigates in question will be built in completely new shipyard called Chittagong Dry Dock Limited http://www.cddl.gov.bd/


source guy. source ?


TopCat said:


> Besideds new ships being built, BD will continue buying ships from China. 2 more 053H3 going to join early 2018. So you can keep dreaming.


again. give me external credible source except bdmilitary blah blah blah.


TopCat said:


> Kyan Sitta type sitting duck does not meet our requirement. Otherwise our local shipyards who makes wooden boats would had built them for couple of million dollar


we built them 4 years ago. and we already proved that's not dream unlike ur guys


Nabil365 said:


> View attachment 412843
> Soon BD soldiers will be equally armed to Super stealthy kyan sittha frigates


 . and we can change whatever we want. may be a bad new for u guys , both of Kyan Sit Thar class are upgrading now with new AD system.


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## BDforever

Aung Zaya said:


> source guy. source ?
> 
> again. give me external credible source except bdmilitary blah blah blah.
> 
> we built them 4 years ago. and we already proved that's not dream unlike ur guys
> . and we can change whatever we want. may be a bad new for u guys , both of Kyan Sit Thar class are upgrading now with new AD system.


funny  when we posted 5 years ago that BD will get 2 submarines, you denied and then you saw what happened next 

@Aung Zaya @madokafc and others check this, bengali indians @Rain Man @scorpionx can read this 


> নৌবাহিনী নিয়ে সরকারের ভবিষ্যৎ পরিকল্পনার তথ্য তুলে ধরে মন্ত্রী জানান, চিটাগাং ড্রাইডক লিমিটেডে বিদেশি জাহাজ নির্মাণকারী প্রতিষ্ঠানের সঙ্গে যৌথভাবে ৬টি ফ্রিগেট তৈরির উদ্যোগ নেয়া হয়েছে।


translation:
Delivering the information about the government's future plans with the Navy, the minister (Law Minister) said, steps have been taken to make 6 frigates jointly with the foreign shipbuilding company at Chittagong Drydock Limited.

source: http://www.mzamin.com/article.php?mzamin=72665&cat=6/নৌবাহিনীর-জন্য-হচ্ছে-সাবমেরিন-ঘাঁটি

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## Species

Aung Zaya said:


> . and we can change whatever we want. may be a bad new for u guys , both of Kyan Sit Thar class are upgrading now with new AD system.



Source? Proof?

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## BDforever

Species said:


> Source? Proof?

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## Nabil365

Aung Zaya said:


> source guy. source ?
> 
> again. give me external credible source except bdmilitary blah blah blah.
> 
> we built them 4 years ago. and we already proved that's not dream unlike ur guys
> . and we can change whatever we want. may be a bad new for u guys , both of Kyan Sit Thar class are upgrading now with new AD system.


Yes you can change whatever you guys want.
But do you guys have cash?

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## dray

BDforever said:


> funny  when we posted 5 years ago that BD will get 2 submarines, you denied and then you saw what happened next
> 
> @Aung Zaya @madokafc and others check this, bengali indians @Rain Man @scorpionx can read this
> 
> translation:
> Delivering the information about the government's future plans with the Navy, the minister (Law Minister) said, steps have been taken to make 6 frigates jointly with the foreign shipbuilding company at Chittagong Drydock Limited.
> 
> source: http://www.mzamin.com/article.php?mzamin=72665&cat=6/নৌবাহিনীর-জন্য-হচ্ছে-সাবমেরিন-ঘাঁটি



Let's do some arithmetic! 

Buying time (2 frigates) = 5 years.
So Making time (2 frigates) = 20 years minimum (logical).

BD takes 5 years to buy 2 frigates.
So BD will take 3*20 years = 60 years to make 6 frigates, and that's a minimum. 

I think @Aung Zaya won't have any problem with that!

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## BDforever

Rain Man said:


> Let's do some arithmetic!
> 
> Buying time (2 frigates) = 5 years.
> So Making time (2 frigates) = 20 years minimum (logical).
> 
> BD takes 5 years to buy 2 frigates.
> So BD will take 3*20 years = 60 years to make 6 frigates, and that's a minimum.
> 
> I think @Aung Zaya won't have any problem with that!

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## Species

BDforever said:


>



Wait for him to post some pictures of their naval chief inspecting some foreign shipyards as 'proof'!

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## Nike

BDforever said:


> funny  when we posted 5 years ago that BD will get 2 submarines, you denied and then you saw what happened next
> 
> @Aung Zaya @madokafc and others check this, bengali indians @Rain Man @scorpionx can read this
> 
> translation:
> Delivering the information about the government's future plans with the Navy, the minister (Law Minister) said, steps have been taken to make 6 frigates jointly with the foreign shipbuilding company at Chittagong Drydock Limited.
> 
> source: http://www.mzamin.com/article.php?mzamin=72665&cat=6/নৌবাহিনীর-জন্য-হচ্ছে-সাবমেরিন-ঘাঁটি



the most important point here is in future, but no one know the exact times. You guys sure love future tenses a lot

Not even can give proof about Type 056 class being built in BD soon enough as BD current shipyard need more than 4 years to built the Durjoy class at home since made contract for the design with China Wuchang shipyard in 2009. Thats indicating one hell of slow learning curve for Bangladesh shipyard to adopting a new design or low commitment from BD government to nurture domestic industry

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## BDforever

madokafc said:


> the most important point here is in future, but no one know the exact times. You guys sure love future tenses a lot
> 
> Not even can give proof about Type 056 class being built in BD soon enough as BD current shipyard need more than 4 years to built the Durjoy class at home since made* contract for the design with China Wuchang shipyard in 2009.* Thats indicating one hell of slow learning curve for Bangladesh shipyard to adopting a new design or low commitment from BD government to nurture domestic industry


1. bold part: where did you get that year of contract ?
2. BD has three shipyards, not one.
3. At what basis you think BD is not going to build frigate in near future ?
4. what proof ? BD has not yet started Type056 construction and no one claiming that BD has started, will start at the end of next year. Narayanganj Shipyard is for small boats, Khulna Shipyard is for Large patrol craft (Currently building Durjoy class)+ corvette and Chittagong dry dock is for Frigate+ construction.
You know, you started sound pathetic because of your hate.

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## Avicenna

madokafc said:


> the most important point here is in future, but no one know the exact times. You guys sure love future tenses a lot
> 
> Not even can give proof about Type 056 class being built in BD soon enough as BD current shipyard need more than 4 years to built the Durjoy class at home since made contract for the design with China Wuchang shipyard in 2009. Thats indicating one hell of slow learning curve for Bangladesh shipyard to adopting a new design or low commitment from BD government to nurture domestic industry



Why the hate though?

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## Flynn Swagmire

@madokafc You are a genius! Fags lick you. Enjoy...

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## UKBengali

BDforever said:


> 1. bold part: where did you get that year of contract ?
> 2. BD has three shipyards, not one.
> 3. At what basis you think BD is not going to build frigate in near future ?
> 4. what proof ? BD has not yet started Type056 construction and no one claiming that BD has started, will start at the end of next year. Narayanganj Shipyard is for small boats, Khulna Shipyard is for Large patrol craft (Currently building Durjoy class)+ corvette and Chittagong dry dock is for Frigate+ construction.
> You know, you started sound pathetic because of your hate.



The lady got used and then disgarded by a BD guy, and that is the reason for her poison against BD.

Indians and Myanmarese guys is fair enough, but this from an Indonesian woman!

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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> The lady got used and then disgarded by a BD guy, and that is the reason for her poison against BD.
> 
> Indians and Myanmarese guys is fair enough, but this from an Indonesian woman!


ahem  other Indonesians are very cool and friendly except her

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## bd_4_ever

BDforever said:


> 1. bold part: where did you get that year of contract ?
> 2. BD has three shipyards, not one.
> 3. At what basis you think BD is not going to build frigate in near future ?
> 4. what proof ? BD has not yet started Type056 construction and no one claiming that BD has started, will start at the end of next year. Narayanganj Shipyard is for small boats, Khulna Shipyard is for Large patrol craft (Currently building Durjoy class)+ corvette and Chittagong dry dock is for Frigate+ construction.
> You know, you started sound pathetic because of your hate.



Are you seriously taking time to explain this to hatemongers?

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## Aung Zaya

Species said:


> Source? Proof?


just follow Myanmar defence. it will be posted with photos within a few months. come along with OPV news.stay tune.  


Nabil365 said:


> Yes you can change whatever you guys want.
> But do you guys have cash?


ofcourse we have. we already built a whole frigate with own money. lol 


Rain Man said:


> Let's do some arithmetic!
> 
> Buying time (2 frigates) = 5 years.
> So Making time (2 frigates) = 20 years minimum (logical).
> 
> BD takes 5 years to buy 2 frigates.
> So BD will take 3*20 years = 60 years to make 6 frigates, and that's a minimum.
> 
> I think @Aung Zaya won't have any problem with that!


yes. i wont be even on this earth at the time. lol 


Species said:


> Wait for him to post some pictures of their naval chief inspecting some foreign shipyards as 'proof'!


lol it was aired as Commander in chief's speech. much more solid than u guys. lol

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## gslv mk3

Aung Zaya said:


> both of Kyan Sit Thar class are upgrading now with new AD system.



Kashtan ? Redut ? Chinese SAMs ?


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Kashtan ? Redut ? Chinese SAMs ?


Akash...
Indians are tired of people making fun of MM frigates with Indian systems.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Akash...



Nah, it will be QRSAM.

Anything is better than those over-glorified coast guard cutters you call frigates, which are devoid of even basic AD capabilities.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Nah, it will be QRSAM.
> 
> Anything is better than those over-glorified coast guard cutters you call frigates, which are devoid of even basic AD capabilities.



Look everybody is making fun of them. Even their army chief is angry.
You guys should help them out with Akash....

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## Penguin

Aung Zaya said:


> . and we can change whatever we want. may be a bad new for u guys , both of Kyan Sit Thar class are upgrading now with new AD system.


UMS Sinbyushin (F-14)






I see no reason why the section behind the main gun couldn't house a different surface to air missile system with relatively little modification. Question is: which SAM? 

The present system may be North Korean, like the small guns (14.5mm gatlings?) on the bridge wings.
















http://www.shipbucket.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=6414

Non-VL:
FL3000N (China)
Palma / Pantsir N (Russia)

VL:
Maitri / SR-SAM (India)
Tor N (Russia)

Any others to consider?

You'ld preferably want an infrared homing or active homing missile, which would give FL3000N and SR-SAM advantage in this line up.

Any indications this is actually being done with any of these?

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Look everybody is making fun of them. Even their army chief is angry.
> You guys should help them out with Akash....



I mentioned this, genius...

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## TopCat

Penguin said:


> Non-VL:
> FL3000N (China)
> Palma / Pantsir N (Russia)


May be out of question due to Indian involvement. China may not sell them.


> VL:
> Maitri / SR-SAM (India)


Best option. India is desperate as nobody has any confidence in their system other than MM. Good from marketing standpoint.


> Tor N (Russia)



Price??

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Indians are tired of people making fun of MM frigates with Indian systems



The only one laughing at them are deluded Bangladeshis.

HMS-X Sonar is a derivative of the HUMSA-NG sonar used in our Kolkata class destroyers.


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## Penguin

TopCat said:


> May be out of question due to Indian involvement. China may not sell them.


Which? There are Chinese systems on the ship already (I see: Chinese Type 362 missile-targeting radar and 2 x Type 347 series fire control raders, 2x4 x C-802 anti-ship missiles, 3 x NG-18 6-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns, ASW rocket Launchers. I suspect also the diesel powerplant. Perhaps also sonar and ASW torpedoes and Harbib Z-9?). I don't see how India would object to Russian ships.



TopCat said:


> Best option. India is desperate as nobody has any confidence in their system other than MM. Good from marketing standpoint.


Well, it would be the only ARH VL option. Which would really improve ability to deal with simultaneous attack from multiple directions and salvo fire. Being developed by DRDO with MBDA and similar to Mica VL.















TopCat said:


> Price??


Beats me. Unit cost of landmobile TOR is about US$ 25 million




http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...on-of-tor-m2u-air-defense-missile-system.html

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## ghost250

@Bilal9 bhaijaan,is it really possible to bring a structural change to set up a VLS??

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## TopCat

Penguin said:


> Which? There are Chinese systems on the ship already (I see: Chinese Type 362 missile-targeting radar and 2 x Type 347 series fire control raders, 2x4 x C-802 anti-ship missiles, 3 x NG-18 6-barrel 30 mm CIWS guns, ASW rocket Launchers. I suspect also the diesel powerplant. Perhaps also sonar and ASW torpedoes and Harbib Z-9?). I don't see how India would object to Russian ships.


SAM is critical component. Besides Indians injected themselves later int the game.
The same reason Burmese are licking Russians and Indians for submarines. They will not get a hold of Chinese sub for sure.

@wanglaokan 


> Well, it would be the only ARH VL option. Which would really improve ability to deal with simultaneous attack from multiple directions and salvo fire. Being developed by DRDO with MBDA and similar to Mica VL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beats me. Unit cost of landmobile TOR is about US$ 25 million
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...on-of-tor-m2u-air-defense-missile-system.html



I agree with you, Indian option is the best for MM.

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## 帅的一匹

TopCat said:


> SAM is critical component. Besides Indians injected themselves later int the game.
> The same reason Burmese are licking Russians and Indians for submarines. They will not get a hold of Chinese sub for sure.
> 
> @wanglaokan
> 
> 
> I agree with you, Indian option is the best for MM.


India is just a side hoe for Myanmar, only Russia can provide what they want.

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## TopCat

shourov323 said:


> @Bilal9 bhaijaan,is it really possible to bring a structural change to set up a VLS??


Yes possible. No need for structural changes. But you have to see how they used the space under the deck. I guess most of them are blank like above the deck.

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## Aung Zaya

gslv mk3 said:


> Kashtan ? Redut ? Chinese SAMs ?


need some time to tell which system is installed. probably it will reveal in months. bro. stay tune. 


TopCat said:


> be out of question due to Indian involvement. China may not sell them.


yes. China wont sell us except radar , ciws and ashm. happy now. ? lol 


shourov323 said:


> @Bilal9 bhaijaan,is it really possible to bring a structural change to set up a VLS??


sure. Thailand's Chinese frigates already done with 8 mk41 vls for 32 RIM-162 ESSM.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> need some time to tell which system is installed. probably it will reveal in months. bro. stay tune.


Dont put your entire navy under stress only because people make fun of you. LOL

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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> The same reason Burmese are licking Russians and Indians for submarines. They will not get a hold of Chinese sub for sure.


one of the reasons we dont choose Chinese sub this time is our neighbour already got them. we need another different sub. of course , China offered us ming class and song class too. but we chose kilo class. may be we dont want the same class with ur guys. lol


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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> one of the reasons we dont choose Chinese sub this time is our neighbour already got them. we need another different sub. of course , China offered us ming class and song class too. but we chose kilo class. may be we dont want the same class with ur guys. lol


Source!! for the China offer
India got biggest number of kilos too. Are they not your neighbor?

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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> Dont put your entire navy under stress only because people make fun of you. LOL


lol still much more than u guys buying everything from everywhere in paper.

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## BDforever

Aung Zaya said:


> just follow Myanmar defence. it will be posted with photos within a few months. come along with OPV news.stay tune.
> 
> ofcourse we have. we already built a whole frigate with own money. lol
> 
> yes. i wont be even on this earth at the time. lol
> 
> lol it was aired as Commander in chief's speech. much more solid than u guys. lol


is there any FB page or forum which i follow ?


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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> ahem  other Indonesians are very cool and friendly except her




I've got half a dozen Indo friends and love their culture. This woman I suspect is Myanmarese.



Aung Zaya said:


> lol still much more than u guys buying everything from everywhere in paper.



C'mon Aung. How many times have things been predicted here and later turned out to be true?

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## Aung Zaya

BDforever said:


> is there any FB page or forum which i follow ?


nope. just follow Myanmar Defence forum of PDF.

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## BDforever

Aung Zaya said:


> nope. just follow Myanmar Defence forum of PDF.


disappointed

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## Bilal9

shourov323 said:


> @Bilal9 bhaijaan,is it really possible to bring a structural change to set up a VLS??



Bhai - I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about VLS Systems bring retrofitted to older ships that were designed without them.

There are critical considerations about missile exhaust etc. that are vital and have to be designed integral with the basic build of a hull. So VLS retrofits may be super difficult if not impossible.

Added to this is the dynamic stability of the ship while firing salvoes of missiles, especially in cluster pack situations which will become very common with Chinese VLSs.

@Penguin Bhai may know more.

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## dray

UKBengali said:


> The lady got used and then disgarded by a BD guy, and that is the reason for her poison against BD.
> 
> Indians and Myanmarese guys is fair enough, but this from an Indonesian woman!



Typical Bangladeshi misogynist passing off-topic sexist comments against a lady to win a debate. So pathetic..

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## Nike

Aung Zaya said:


> need some time to tell which system is installed. probably it will reveal in months. bro. stay tune.
> 
> yes. China wont sell us except radar , ciws and ashm. happy now. ? lol
> 
> sure. Thailand's Chinese frigates already done with 8 mk41 vls for 32 RIM-162 ESSM.



its difficult to talk with people from a country in which yet to built a single corvette and need years to built a small patrol vessel

talk big is their forte



Rain Man said:


> Typical Bangladeshi misogynist passing off-topic sexist comments against a lady to win a debate. So pathetic..



he doesnt win anything except some thanks remark from the like (bunch of same short minded person), well what can you expect from 2030 guy



Bilal9 said:


> I've got half a dozen Indo friends and love their culture. This woman I suspect is Myanmarese.
> 
> 
> 
> C'mon Aung. How many times have things been predicted here and later turned out to be true?



me Myanmarese? what kind of development it is. LoL. 

You such pathetic bunch

just talking the truth

@Nilgiri @Aung Zaya

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## Aung Zaya

madokafc said:


> its difficult to talk with people from a country in which yet to built a single corvette and need years to built a small patrol vessel
> 
> talk big is their forte
> 
> 
> 
> he doesnt win anything except some thanks remark from the like (bunch of same short minded person), well what can you expect from 2030 guy
> 
> 
> 
> me Myanmarese? what kind of development it is. LoL.
> 
> You such pathetic bunch
> 
> just talking the truth
> 
> @Nilgiri @Aung Zaya


just show ur posts in Indonesian defence forum. lol



TopCat said:


> Source!! for the China offer
> India got biggest number of kilos too. Are they not your neighbor?


well. we even got training from india. and they are operating kilo sub for decade. they know very well about kilo.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> well. we even got training from india. and they are operating kilo sub for decade. they know very well about kilo.


You said you dont want a submarine that your neighbor use. isnt India your neighbor.

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## Penguin

wanglaokan said:


> India is just a side hoe for Myanmar, only Russia can provide what they want.


And what is it exactly, that they want? (since you suggest you know)



Aung Zaya said:


> sure. Thailand's Chinese frigates already done with 8 mk41 vls for 32 RIM-162 ESSM.


The F25T was designed from the start to fit a Mk41 8-cell module. It just wasn't initially installed (fitted for, but not with")". It is different - but not impossible - if the ship isn't designed for that kind of thing.



Bilal9 said:


> Bhai - I don't have a whole lot of knowledge about VLS Systems bring retrofitted to older ships that were designed without them.
> 
> There are critical considerations about missile exhaust etc. that are vital and have to be designed integral with the basic build of a hull. So VLS retrofits may be super difficult if not impossible.
> 
> Added to this is the dynamic stability of the ship while firing salvoes of missiles, especially in cluster pack situations which will become very common with Chinese VLSs.
> 
> @Penguin Bhai may know more.


It is not rocket science, and VLS are increasingle taking into account retrofit compatibility, see e.g. LMCo Mk41 Single Cell launcher. See also retrofits of e.g. Barak-1 on various ships e.g. Chilean ex-UK County class and ex-UK Type 22, or Indian navy Delhi and Godavari classes. Not all VLS systems are huge.

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## Nabil365

The feeling when a corvette is better armed than "stealth" frigates

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## Species

Aung Zaya said:


> just follow Myanmar defence. it will be posted with photos within a few months. come along with OPV news.stay tune.
> 
> ofcourse we have. we already built a whole frigate with own money. lol
> 
> yes. i wont be even on this earth at the time. lol
> 
> lol it was aired as Commander in chief's speech. much more solid than u guys. lol



Proof AZ, proof! Show me proof, not empty claims like a kid in the KG.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Nabil365 said:


> View attachment 413055
> 
> The feeling when a corvette is better armed than "stealth" frigates


This is our fishing trawler bro...


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## Nabil365

OrdinaryGenius said:


> This is our fishing trawler bro...


Yep trawler to catch big fish

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## Aung Zaya

Species said:


> Proof AZ, proof! Show me proof, not empty claims like a kid in the KG.


already said about it. it was aired as live from FB and military media MWD.
lol








which is more solid than ur so called bdmilitary vlog. can u also give me link for 3 C27J spartan , 2 C130J , more K-8w from credible source except bdmilitary and the vlog who taking that as ref.?

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## Species

Aung Zaya said:


> already said about it. it was aired as live from FB and MWD.
> lol
> View attachment 413076
> 
> View attachment 413077
> 
> which is more solid than ur so called bdmilitary vlog. can u also give me link for 3 C27J spartan , 2 C130J , more K-8w from credible source except bdmilitary and the vlog who taking that as ref.



You just did the same thing we were laughing at earlier. Tell me how one could verify your navies are getting SAMs through these pictures? Top military officials frequently visit foreign bases and installations, they are nothing significant. 

Bdmilitary is currently the most reliable source for news about Bangladesh defence and all their information and predictions have proven to be true. They do have some connections with the armed forces personnel and now even the media from other countries are also relying on their reports.

Anyway, several members have posted links from our mainstream media about the construction of indigenous frigates. So I don't think there should be any doubt.

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## Penguin

Nabil365 said:


> View attachment 413055
> The feeling when a corvette is better armed than "stealth" frigates



Really?

Both have 76mm main gun, ASW rockets and ASW torpedoes.

Both have same AShM, but Kyan Sittha has 2x4 verses 056 with 2x2
056 has 2 single 30mm canno versus Kyan Sittha's 3x 30mm gatling and 2x 14.5mm gatling.
056 has only a helicopter pad, while Kyan Sittha has that plus a hangar (i.e. organic heli)
More/Better sensors on Kyan Sittha

So, NO advantage for the corvette here

So, it is just that 056 has 1x 8-round FL3000N versus Kyan Sittha's 1x6 Pedestal mounted manpads.

FL-3000N missile:

Minimum range: < 500 meters
Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS

consistently identified as the similar Soviet Igla-1E (SA-16 [9M313])
operational range 5.6 km (3.2 mi)
That, my dear, is not a huge advantage....











And Myanmar also has it's own corvette, which is not much less from Kyan Sittha and smaller than 056 (yet very much it's equal): 76mm gun, 2x 30mm gatling, 2x2 AShM C802, 1x sixtuple manpads launcher, 2 ASW rocket launchers, helipad and hangar




http://www.janes.com/article/66579/myanmar-navy-commissions-first-corvette-with-reduced-rcs






I like both these designs in service with the Myanmar navy, which are nice all round designs. Personally, as far as aesthetics is concerned, I think the 056 - with it's low bridge and disproportionally large SAM launcher - is fugly. But you can't account for taste (or the lack thereof on my part ;-)

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## Penguin

Gentlemen, as a European, I've looked always looked at the Pakistan-India rivalry with some amazement. Now I see the same with BD and India. To me it is all reminiscent of East- versus West Germany. Add to that the overall large scale China/Iran/Russia v USA/EU and all sorts of smaller regional contradictions, and I am telling you it doesn't make this forum any better or more professional (not to mention fun). So, if you could ALL please put a sock in it as far as the mutual contempt and insults are concerned, that would be very helpfull. Shall we at least attempt to stick to topic and to be polite. We don't have to agree or be buddy's, but - personally - I'm getting a little sick of all this squabbling that doesn't lead anywhere and doesn't contribute to forum quality. Just my 2 'gulden' worth.

Thank you.

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## WebMaster

Stick to the topic.

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## Nabil365

Penguin said:


> Really?
> 
> Both have 76mm main gun, ASW rockets and ASW torpedoes.
> 
> Both have same AShM, but Kyan Sittha has 2x4 verses 056 with 2x2
> 056 has 2 single 30mm canno versus Kyan Sittha's 3x 30mm gatling and 2x 14.5mm gatling.
> 056 has only a helicopter pad, while Kyan Sittha has that plus a hangar (i.e. organic heli)
> More/Better sensors on Kyan Sittha
> 
> So, NO advantage for the corvette here
> 
> So, it is just that 056 has 1x 8-round FL3000N versus Kyan Sittha's 1x6 Pedestal mounted manpads.
> 
> FL-3000N missile:
> 
> Minimum range: < 500 meters
> Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
> North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS
> 
> consistently identified as the similar Soviet Igla-1E (SA-16 [9M313])
> operational range 5.6 km (3.2 mi)
> That, my dear, is not a huge advantage....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And Myanmar also has it's own corvette, which is not much less from Kyan Sittha and smaller than 056 (yet very much it's equal): 76mm gun, 2x 30mm gatling, 2x2 AShM C802, 1x sixtuple manpads launcher, 2 ASW rocket launchers, helipad and hangar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.janes.com/article/66579/myanmar-navy-commissions-first-corvette-with-reduced-rcs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like both these designs in service with the Myanmar navy, which are nice all round designs. Personally, as far as aesthetics is concerned, I think the 056 - with it's low bridge and disproportionally large SAM launcher - is fugly. But you can't account for taste (or the lack thereof on my part ;-)


I wish we could put all the above equipments into a 1300 tonnes corvette.
So "stealth" frigate is armed with so little sams?
Also look at F22-P of Pakistan,Bns Bangubhandhu of Bangladesh and Lekiu class frigates of Malaysia.You will get a clear view what this new burmese "stealth" frigates are actually.

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## Penguin

Nabil365 said:


> So "stealth" frigate is armed with so little sams?
> Also look at F22-P of Pakistan,Bns Bangubhandhu of Bangladesh and Lekiu class frigates of Malaysia.You will get a clear view what this new burmese "stealth" frigates are actually.


@Nabil365 : Just because you see only 6 missiles on either the corvette or the frigate, that doesn't mean more aren't carried as reloads (Igla 1 type MANPAD are after all man portable so with missile weight 17.9 kg manual reload should prove extremely feasible)

Let me remind yhou that on the 3,144 ton full load F22P (2x4 C802) and 2,500 ton full load Bangabundhu (2x4 Otomat Mk2) you see only 8 HQ7/FM90M missiles. Perhaps there are 8 more carried for manual reloading. But these missiles are far larger and heavier (84.5 kg) so manual reloading at sea will be much more of a challenge. In the most ideal of circumstances, FM-90N has a range of 15km (against seaskimmers likely less than that)

As for the 2,270 ton full load Lekius, they have a VLS farm with 16 × VL Sea Wolf (140kg), which have a range of 10km. Not spectacularly different from F22P and Bangabundhu.

F22P has a 76mm and 2x 30mm gatlings from China, Bangabundhu a 76mm Oto and 2 twin 40mm Oto cannon. Lekiu has a 57mm Bofors gun and 2 × MSI DS30M 30mm cannon. They all are fitted with 2x3 tubes for lightweight ASW torpedos and have a organic helitopter (i.e. helipad plus hangar). All have a 4 diesel CODAD type propulsionand twin screws. Nothing out of the ordinary.

Now, if you had compared with the 2,985 ton full load Thai F25T Naresuan, with its 8-cell Mk41 for 32 x RIM-162 ESSM with 50km range, you could have had a point. Except for this and its 5 in/54 (127 mm) Mk-45 Mod 2 main gun, however, armament is comparable to the 3 ships above. Its Chinese Type 76Atwin 37mm have by now been replaced by 2 × 30mm MSI-DSL DS30MR.

Originally





After refit





So, really, what you are implying makes very, very little sense.

Should Myanmar manage to put e.g. 16 (or even just 8!) of the 15km Indian Maitri/SR-SAM or e.g. the 20km South African Umkhonto-IR or e.g. 1or 2 Sylver A35 8-cell VLS + 20km VL Mica on its 3,000 ton frigate, they have a very strong competitor (including because it has an impressive gun armament and matches the other contenders in other weapons areas). Likewise for their smaller corvette.

Anyway, just because at this point a smaller missile is used, and fewer of them are in direct view, doesn't automatically disqualify these ships. Recall that the 2,350 ton South Korean Ulsan class, from which Bangabunhu derives, has no surface to air missiles at all. Of the 9 originally built, 7 still remain in service. Are you suggesting these 1980s ships are inferior compared to say, BN's ex-USCG Hamilton's or its ex-Chinese 053H1/H2 ships, Type 056s or even Bangabunhu itself? Just because there is no SAM?

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## Avicenna

@Penguin. What are your thoughts on this particular Bangladesh Navy program to acquire 6 "Guided Missile Frigates" What do you think? 

Based on Chinese Type 054+?


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## hassamun

Well best of luck to the Bangladeshi Navy...It is quite a challenging task...

I have a question. What shall be the use of these frigates? Is Bangladesh threatened by a country? These funds could be better spent somewhere else...


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## Flynn Swagmire

hassamun said:


> I have a question. What shall be the use of these frigates? Is Bangladesh threatened by a country? These funds could be better spent somewhere else...


We are just preparing to expand our border. We need lands to survive just like the jews.

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## hassamun

OrdinaryGenius said:


> We are just preparing to expand our border. We need lands to survive just like the jews.



India wont be as easy as Palestine...


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## Avicenna

hassamun said:


> Well best of luck to the Bangladeshi Navy...It is quite a challenging task...
> 
> I have a question. What shall be the use of these frigates? Is Bangladesh threatened by a country? These funds could be better spent somewhere else...



One can ask any sovereign nation that question right? Why allocate limited resources to defense needs when there are so many other concerns. 

So like any other sovereign nation Bangladesh has national interests. I'm assuming the goverment of Bangaldesh is more aware of the nature of those interests more than you or I. I can only speculate it has to do with protecting resources in the EEZ after the 2012 decision.

Perhaps take a look at this nice article.

http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/...aritime-border-fix-puts-bay-of-bengal-in-play


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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> One can ask any sovereign nation that question right? Why allocate limited resources to defense needs when there are so many other concerns.
> 
> So like any other sovereign nation Bangladesh has national interests. I'm assuming the goverment of Bangaldesh is more aware of the nature of those interests more than you or I. I can only speculate it has to do with protecting resources in the EEZ after the 2012 decision.



While I agree that we cannot understand the reasoning of a Government, we need to understand that the Government is run by some people as well who think of themselves more than the public...

One can see external threats and then analyse the need for a military upgrade...I dont even need to ask this Question if there is a military acquisition by India or Pakistan for example...

As per the Wiki Article of the Bangladeshi Navy, they have 02 Submarines, 07 Frigates, 04 Corvettes, 04 Large Patrol Craft, 11 Offshore Patrol Vessel, 09 Fast Attack Craft-Missile, 09 Fast Attack Craft-Gun and 04 Fast Attack Craft-ASW to name a few....plus a few more Ordered...Do they need more?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Navy

As far as Bangladesh VS Myanmar goes a full fledged War is highly unlikely...


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## Avicenna

UKBengali said:


> BD DEFINITELY has a requirement for around 12 4,000 tonne VLS missile frigates. It needs huge conventional forces to safeguard it's sovereignty in a tough neighbourhood.
> 
> I am sceptical that BD can start construction by next year as the largest military ships that it has built so far is the 648 tonne Durjoy class patrol craft. However, BD has a thriving civilian shipbuilding industry that can build ships up to around 10,000 tonnes. So it may seem a stretch, with massive Chinese technical assistance, maybe it can be done by 2018.
> 
> Whether construction starts next year or a little later, this is inevitable as "Forces Goal 2030" aims for large and modern conventional forces to build a military that can safeguard the interests of around 200 million people.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon ; @ChineseTiger1986 ; @wanglaokan and any other Chinese input would be most appreciated.



I have to say I was skeptical about Forces Goal 2030, but looking at developments like this, man I have to say Bangladeshi government is serious....

Just look at the systematic way they are rapidly acquiring platforms. At first just random cost effective platforms upgraded to give some capability. But now longer term aims of standardization as well as some level of indigenous capability.

This guided missile frigate requirement made me a believer.

Damn, I'm impressed.


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## Avicenna

hassamun said:


> While I agree that we cannot understand the reasoning of a Government, we need to understand that the Government is run by some people as well who think of themselves more than the public...
> 
> One can see external threats and then analyse the need for a military upgrade...I dont even need to ask this Question if there is a military acquisition by India or Pakistan for example...
> 
> As per the Wiki Article of the Bangladeshi Navy, they have 02 Submarines, 07 Frigates, 04 Corvettes, 04 Large Patrol Craft, 11 Offshore Patrol Vessel, 09 Fast Attack Craft-Missile, 09 Fast Attack Craft-Gun and 04 Fast Attack Craft-ASW to name a few....plus a few more Ordered...Do they need more?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangladesh_Navy
> 
> As far as Bangladesh VS Myanmar goes a full fledged War is highly unlikely...



Yea. I used to think they didn't either.

But a few things. Firstly, Bangaldesh has a population of 160 million plus. AND it is extremely underdeveloped. 
There are clearly other needs that need to be addressed. However, this can also be said about many many other countries in the world. 

In addition, apparently the economy of Bangladesh has improved significantly in the last decade and projects to continue to do so. 

The Bangladeshi military has been neglected to this point. Some sort of modernization program was due.

Also, I think the 2008 disupute between Bangladesh and Myanmar also had something to do with it.

Finally, its not just about a hot war. Having a strong military capability is more about deterence. 

And this would allow Bangaldesh to have to NOT fight a war in the case it was a victim of aggresion.

Also these procurements are STRICLTY defensive in nature.


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## Michael Corleone

hassamun said:


> Well best of luck to the Bangladeshi Navy...It is quite a challenging task...
> 
> I have a question. What shall be the use of these frigates? Is Bangladesh threatened by a country? These funds could be better spent somewhere else...


The funds are spent on these to protect their countries economy. Especially if there is sea denial or someone starts mining in our waters... To protect our national interest.... We didn't put a dime on the military prior to this... This is needed.

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## hassamun

Mohammed Khaled said:


> The funds are spent on these to protect their countries economy. Especially if there is sea denial or someone starts mining in our waters... To protect our national interest.... We didn't put a dime on the military prior to this... This is needed.



Pakistan Navy has 10 Frigates while Bangladesh Navy has 7...Pakistan Navy has 13 Fast Attack Crafts while Bangladesh Navy has 22. (Respective Wiki Pages)

I think the Bangladeshi Navy put much more than a dime...


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## Avicenna

Yea agreed. I was really skeptical about Forces Goal 2030. But I have to say I was wrong.

This requirement for the 6 frigates really says something. And hoping to build it in house even more so.

Its good though. I will improve shipbuilding and all associated industries in Bangladesh.

Remember we dont have to re-invent the wheel to advance the nation. Just emulate others who were successful by using similar methods to advance industry and the economy as a whole.



hassamun said:


> Pakistan Navy has 10 Frigates while Bangladesh Navy has 7...Pakistan Navy has 13 Fast Attack Crafts while Bangladesh Navy has 22. (Respective Wiki Pages)
> 
> I think the Bangladeshi Navy put much more than a dime...



With all due respect. What Pakistan has dosen't have anything to do with Bangladeshi requirements.


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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> With all due respect. What Pakistan has dosen't have anything to do with Bangladeshi requirements.



It was meant as a comparison....Pakistan sees India as its biggest military challenge. Who is Bangladesh's nemesis?

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## Avicenna

Bangladesh doesnt need a nemesis. 

And infact, thats a great blessing.

At the same time, an independent nation needs the ability to defend itself as well deter others from infringing on its rights.

By the same token, why does Sweden need a military? Its offically neutral right? No apparent enemies either?

Very nice avatar gif btw.

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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> Bangladesh doesnt need a nemesis.
> 
> And infact, thats a great blessing.
> 
> At the same time, an independent nation needs the ability to defend itself as well deter others from infringing on its rights.
> 
> By the same token, why does Sweden need a military? Its offically neutral right? No apparent enemies either?



Can't compare the Standard of Living of Sweden and Bangladesh...



Avicenna said:


> Very nice avatar gif btw.



Thanks...


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## Avicenna

Yea very true.

So the spectrum would be North Korea right? on one end. And say a highly developed country like Sweden on the other.

Somewhere in between are countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, as well as many other countries.

I dont know the figures, but I wonder what percent of GDP Bangladesh spends on the military. I guarantee its a small number. Meaning, theres room to increase it.

But way way way more important than buying weapons is to increase human development, better access to education, healthcare, as well as infrastructure development. 

That goes without saying. Unfortunately, we humans are not always good to each other.

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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> Yea very true.
> 
> So the spectrum would be North Korea right? on one end. And say a highly developed country like Sweden on the other.
> 
> Somewhere in between are countries like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, as well as many other countries.
> 
> I dont know the figures, but I wonder what percent of GDP Bangladesh spends on the military. I guarantee its a small number. Meaning, theres room to increase it.









http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=BD
Currently 1.442% of GDP...

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## Avicenna

How does that compare to others?

Nice! Less than Senegal! I would say were on the lower side. 

Can probably afford to up it a little if need be.

World Average 2.2.

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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> How does that compare to others?



Its actually Excellent and can be increased. The criteria entirely differs from country to country...For NATO countries the minimum required is 2% of GDP and yet many nations are still under this requirement.

Pakistan has a higher Percentage than India and Bangladesh...

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=BD-IN-PK

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## Avicenna

South Asia 2.5.



hassamun said:


> Its actually Excellent and can be increased. The criteria entirely differs from country to country...For NATO countries the minimum required is 2% of GDP and yet many nations are still under this requirement.
> 
> Pakistan has a higher Percentage than India and Bangladesh...
> 
> http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.XPND.GD.ZS?locations=BD-IN-PK



So TRUMP is RIGHT!!!! Europe pay up!

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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> South Asia 2.5.
> 
> So TRUMP is RIGHT!!!! Europe pay up!

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## Avicenna

Yea so from those 2001 numbers, Canada and Germany need to step it up!


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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> Yea so from those 2001 numbers, Canada and Germany need to step it up!




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/869503804307275776


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## Avicenna

In terms of the Bangaldeshi military, I was very skeptical of Forces Goal 2030.

But I'm wrong. What has been demonstrated in the last several years is that Bangladesh is serious about expanding its military capability. 

Like I keep saying, this Guided missile frigate program really clinches it.

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## hassamun

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/868407229380268033


Avicenna said:


> In terms of the Bangaldeshi military, I was very skeptical of Forces Goal 2030.
> 
> But I'm wrong. What has been demonstrated in the last several years is that Bangladesh is serious about expanding its military capability.
> 
> Like I keep saying, this Guided missile frigate program really clinches it.



No harm in Upgrading the Military...The million dollar question is, "Does Bangladesh really need to Upgrade its Military?"


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## Avicenna

The answer to that is yes I believe.

The goal isnt to be able to defeat India. Thats just impossible. Perhaps the goal is to be able to make it hurt more than its worth for India to ever do anything. Or even attempt to try to intimidate Bangladesh. 

And as for Myanmar....I'm not really concerned at this time. I'm sure it spends a far greater percentage of its GDP on its military. So its really a matter of inabilty to sustain an arms race or whatever you wanna call it.

And from the Pakistani perspective, you guys should really be cheering a stronger Bangladesh. If anything, its a problem for India on its Eastern border which precludes them from focusing on you.

And just one other point, despite the present Bangaldeshi government's anti Pakistan stance, I really think the average Bengali out there favors Pakistan over India.

Easy litmus test is to ask who you support in cricket. 9 out of 10 times Bengalis support Pakistan.

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## hassamun

Avicenna said:


> The answer to that is yes I believe.
> 
> The goal isnt to be able to defeat India. Thats just impossible. Perhaps the goal is to be able to make it hurt more than its worth for India to ever do anything. Or even attempt to try to intimidate Bangladesh.
> 
> And as for Myanmar....I'm not really concerned at this time. I'm sure it spends a far greater percentage of its GDP on its military. So its really a matter of inabilty to sustain an arms race or whatever you wanna call it.
> 
> And from the Pakistani perspective, you guys should really be cheering a stronger Bangladesh. If anything, its a problem for India on its Eastern border which precludes them from focusing on you.



Realistically, intimidating India is close to Impossible for Bangladesh even after the acquisition of these frigates...

No matter who comes and goes...India's No. 01 focus is on Pakistan...and that is why they kept no check on China and now are in a bit of pickle....


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## Avicenna

No I meant to say that expanded Bangladeshi military capability is a deterence against Indian intimidation.

Bangladesh isnt seeking to intimidate anyone. Just protect whats rightfully hers.

Lets just for a moment hypothesize this scenario.

Lets say even 50 percent of Forces Goal 2030 is implemented. 

That changes the security balance tremedously vis a vis India Bangladesh.

And this is coming from a HARDCORE skeptic, a sort of anti fanboi.

I will just address the BAF since I am more familiar with military aviation than the other services.

The goal is to have 160 multi-role fighters from my recollection which I STILL AM EXTREMELY SKEPTICAL OF.

However, lets say BAF manages to expand from its 3 squadrons to at least 5 or 6?

MRCA tender is out. Its only for 8-12 examples. But look at the specific of the tender. BAF wants advanced tech. 

Qualitative drivers for the BAF. That to me signifies that BAF is serious about increased capability and not just collecting a few fancy toys.

A few squadrons of F-7BGI, SU-30SME derivative, and J-10B would make India think twice about applying political pressure to get its way and bully Bangladesh.

I doubt a fight ever breaks out. 

But whats the alternative. Take a slap and turn the other cheek for another? Or threaten to punch back.

That way the first slap doesn't ever come....

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## Nabil365

Penguin said:


> @Nabil365 : Just because you see only 6 missiles on either the corvette or the frigate, that doesn't mean more aren't carried as reloads (Igla 1 type MANPAD are after all man portable so with missile weight 17.9 kg manual reload should prove extremely feasible)
> 
> Let me remind yhou that on the 3,144 ton full load F22P (2x4 C802) and 2,500 ton full load Bangabundhu (2x4 Otomat Mk2) you see only 8 HQ7/FM90M missiles. Perhaps there are 8 more carried for manual reloading. But these missiles are far larger and heavier (84.5 kg) so manual reloading at sea will be much more of a challenge. In the most ideal of circumstances, FM-90N has a range of 15km (against seaskimmers likely less than that)
> 
> As for the 2,270 ton full load Lekius, they have a VLS farm with 16 × VL Sea Wolf (140kg), which have a range of 10km. Not spectacularly different from F22P and Bangabundhu.
> 
> F22P has a 76mm and 2x 30mm gatlings from China, Bangabundhu a 76mm Oto and 2 twin 40mm Oto cannon. Lekiu has a 57mm Bofors gun and 2 × MSI DS30M 30mm cannon. They all are fitted with 2x3 tubes for lightweight ASW torpedos and have a organic helitopter (i.e. helipad plus hangar). All have a 4 diesel CODAD type propulsionand twin screws. Nothing out of the ordinary.
> 
> Now, if you had compared with the 2,985 ton full load Thai F25T Naresuan, with its 8-cell Mk41 for 32 x RIM-162 ESSM with 50km range, you could have had a point. Except for this and its 5 in/54 (127 mm) Mk-45 Mod 2 main gun, however, armament is comparable to the 3 ships above. Its Chinese Type 76Atwin 37mm have by now been replaced by 2 × 30mm MSI-DSL DS30MR.
> 
> Originally
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After refit
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, really, what you are implying makes very, very little sense.
> 
> Should Myanmar manage to put e.g. 16 (or even just 8!) of the 15km Indian Maitri/SR-SAM or e.g. the 20km South African Umkhonto-IR or e.g. 1or 2 Sylver A35 8-cell VLS + 20km VL Mica on its 3,000 ton frigate, they have a very strong competitor (including because it has an impressive gun armament and matches the other contenders in other weapons areas). Likewise for their smaller corvette.
> 
> Anyway, just because at this point a smaller missile is used, and fewer of them are in direct view, doesn't automatically disqualify these ships. Recall that the 2,350 ton South Korean Ulsan class, from which Bangabunhu derives, has no surface to air missiles at all. Of the 9 originally built, 7 still remain in service. Are you suggesting these 1980s ships are inferior compared to say, BN's ex-USCG Hamilton's or its ex-Chinese 053H1/H2 ships, Type 056s or even Bangabunhu itself? Just because there is no SAM?


These Burmese shipships are not armed properly.I agree with you.But that's if they put this or if they put that.All they put were a few manpads.
Just look at the range of their sam.


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## Aung Zaya

OrdinaryGenius said:


> We are just preparing to expand our border. We need lands to survive just like the jews.


 found a muslim who is shouting Jews are evil but admire in mind and wanna be like them. lol 

israel already have own advanced weapon companies and backed by US to do this. what BD have and who is behind u guys. ?

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## bluesky

Aung Zaya said:


> israel already have own advanced weapon companies and backed by US to do this. what BD have and who is behind u guys. ?


The Burmese (Bamans) have *very intelligently* (?) set the stage to create instability in Arakan. So, no one really knows how this internal revolt will turn against Burma, and BD will reap benefit out of it.


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## Aung Zaya

Nabil365 said:


> These Burmese shipships are not armed properly.I agree with you.But that's if they put this or if they put that.All they put were a few manpads.
> Just look at the range of their sam.



seem u still dont get the point what he explained already.

Really?

Both have 76mm main gun, ASW rockets and ASW torpedoes.

Both have same AShM, but Kyan Sittha has 2x4 verses 056 with 2x2
056 has 2 single 30mm canno versus Kyan Sittha's 3x 30mm gatling and 2x 14.5mm gatling.
056 has only a helicopter pad, while Kyan Sittha has that plus a hangar (i.e. organic heli)
More/Better sensors on Kyan Sittha

So, NO advantage for the corvette here

So, it is just that 056 has 1x 8-round FL3000N versus Kyan Sittha's 1x6 Pedestal mounted manpads.

FL-3000N missile:

Minimum range: < 500 meters
Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS

consistently identified as the similar Soviet Igla-1E (SA-16 [9M313])
operational range 5.6 km (3.2 mi)
That, my dear, is not a huge advantage...

and i want to add if the missile in box is not HT-16PGJ but SA-24 or 18, it wont be much more different with ur Fl-3000N.



bluesky said:


> The Burmese (Bamans) have *very intelligently* (?) set the stage to create instability in Arakan. So, no one really knows how this internal revolt will turn against Burma, and BD will reap benefit out of it.


BD cant to nothing about it.


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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> seem u still dont get the point what he explained already.
> 
> Really?
> 
> Both have 76mm main gun, ASW rockets and ASW torpedoes.
> 
> Both have same AShM, but Kyan Sittha has 2x4 verses 056 with 2x2
> 056 has 2 single 30mm canno versus Kyan Sittha's 3x 30mm gatling and 2x 14.5mm gatling.
> 056 has only a helicopter pad, while Kyan Sittha has that plus a hangar (i.e. organic heli)
> More/Better sensors on Kyan Sittha
> 
> So, NO advantage for the corvette here
> 
> So, it is just that 056 has 1x 8-round FL3000N versus Kyan Sittha's 1x6 Pedestal mounted manpads.
> 
> FL-3000N missile:
> 
> Minimum range: < 500 meters
> Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
> North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS
> 
> consistently identified as the similar Soviet Igla-1E (SA-16 [9M313])
> operational range 5.6 km (3.2 mi)
> That, my dear, is not a huge advantage...
> 
> and i want to add if the missile in box is not HT-16PGJ but SA-24 or 18, it wont be much more different with ur Fl-3000N.
> 
> 
> BD cant to nothing about it.




Do you understand the difference between automatic and manual? Automatic target tracking and firing vs firing with sight from soldier?



Aung Zaya said:


> BD cant to nothing about it.



BD does not need to do anything. We are here to watch the show. How is the UN investigation going on?

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## Flynn Swagmire

Aung Zaya said:


> found a muslim who is shouting Jews are evil but admire in mind and wanna be like them. lol
> 
> israel already have own advanced weapon companies and backed by US to do this. what BD have and who is behind u guys. ?


Lool, jews are evil. You guys lick jews. So, we will do the same evil thing to you guys. And you will lick it too. No? 

Don't worry about weapons, political and financial support. Just keep doing mass Rohingya rape and murder.


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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> you understand the difference between automatic and manual? Automatic target tracking and firing vs firing with sight from soldier?


lol who said it's manual ? already upgraded to fully automatic system. 








TopCat said:


> does not need to do anything. We are here to watch the

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## Nabil365

Aung Zaya said:


> seem u still dont get the point what he explained already.
> 
> Really?
> 
> Both have 76mm main gun, ASW rockets and ASW torpedoes.
> 
> Both have same AShM, but Kyan Sittha has 2x4 verses 056 with 2x2
> 056 has 2 single 30mm canno versus Kyan Sittha's 3x 30mm gatling and 2x 14.5mm gatling.
> 056 has only a helicopter pad, while Kyan Sittha has that plus a hangar (i.e. organic heli)
> More/Better sensors on Kyan Sittha
> 
> So, NO advantage for the corvette here
> 
> So, it is just that 056 has 1x 8-round FL3000N versus Kyan Sittha's 1x6 Pedestal mounted manpads.
> 
> FL-3000N missile:
> 
> Minimum range: < 500 meters
> Maximum range: > 9 km for subsonic targets, > 6 km for supersonic targets
> North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS
> 
> consistently identified as the similar Soviet Igla-1E (SA-16 [9M313])
> operational range 5.6 km (3.2 mi)
> That, my dear, is not a huge advantage...
> 
> and i want to add if the missile in box is not HT-16PGJ but SA-24 or 18, it wont be much more different with ur Fl-3000N.
> 
> 
> BD cant to nothing about it.


Pls stop copying some else's post.

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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> I have to say I was skeptical about Forces Goal 2030, but looking at developments like this, man I have to say Bangladeshi government is serious....
> 
> Just look at the systematic way they are rapidly acquiring platforms. At first just random cost effective platforms upgraded to give some capability. But now longer term aims of standardization as well as some level of indigenous capability.
> 
> This guided missile frigate requirement made me a believer.
> 
> Damn, I'm impressed.



Some on the forum may laugh about "Forces Goal 2030" but it will happen.
The idea is to make any bullying/military attack by India so painful to it that it will only do so
as a very last resort and so full BD sovereignty is maintained.
I also read your other post that is sceptical about 10 squadrons of 4+/5 gen Fighters. Let me
say that without these numbers, then BAF won't be able to provide the proper deterrence
against IAF in the region. This would mean that a massive component of the idea behind "Forces
Goal 2030" will not have been fulfilled. BD Army and Navy will not have the proper protection to be
able to do their jobs effectively in this case. Even the Navy will rely on the SU-30SMEs proving support against
enemy ships and aircraft in Bay of Bengal. Just their SAM/AShM systems will not be enough to provide the
necessary protection.

It is not guaranteed but I am confident that BD military by 2030 will be a large and world-class fighting force.

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## Flynn Swagmire

hassamun said:


> India wont be as easy as Palestine...


We have patience...

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## NeonNinja

Bangladesh need a modern navy to counter any threat.


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## Avicenna

So back to the frigates. Derivatives of Chinese Type 054+? I would assume the first examples have to be built in China. And evenutally inshAllah in house production. 

These ships are 4000 tons approxamately.

Damn man. c-803 and hq-16s....with vls. 

each example is around 350 million though so how can BN afford it?

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> each example is around 350 million though so how can BN afford it?


The reason BD building them indigenously. May not cost more than 100 million in that case.

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## Avicenna

Yea probably. Also in house production will be very good in general for the shipbuilding industry, and the economy as a whole. more skilled jobs....

If the goal is at least 6, I'm sure the first few will be built in China. With the others at Chittagong....

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## Flynn Swagmire

Avicenna said:


> If the goal is at least 6, I'm sure the first few will be built in China. With the others at Chittagong....


As our indigenous frigate program will be based on already in service Type 054 design. I don't think we need to build even one ship in China. We can do it ourselves...

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## UKBengali

TopCat said:


> The reason BD building them indigenously. May not cost more than 100 million in that case.



Will cost around 2-250 million dollars if built in BD.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Will cost around 2-250 million dollars if built in BD.



Yes but most of the payment will go to CDDL which means the money is going from one of the pocket of govt to another pocket. I am just counting the imported items.

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## UKBengali

OrdinaryGenius said:


> As our indigenous frigate program will be based on already in service Type 054 design. I don't think we need to build even one ship in China. We can do it ourselves...



Yep. Electronics, sensors and missiles will be more modern though.

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## Penguin

Avicenna said:


> @Penguin. What are your thoughts on this particular Bangladesh Navy program to acquire 6 "Guided Missile Frigates" What do you think?
> 
> Based on Chinese Type 054+?


I haven't see an RfP or contract text, but China has much more ships on offer than 054A, which, at over 4000 tons, is a fairly large ship and possibly too large for the needs of a great many navies that would buy Chinese export ships. And purchases will depend on available budget + extended credit.

There are great offerings such as further developments of F22P (2 variants: Tiger andC28A), and there is also a further development of the C28A itself. On the lower end of the spectrum the multimission frigate. And at the higher end there are the High performance frigate and the 4k ton frigate.

Multimission frigate (1500 ton)





"F22P with VLS for HQ16" (don't know the official name, "Tiger frigate"?)





C28A





Modified C28A with VLS (don't know the official name. Note absense of radar target illuminators > VL SAM is NOT th HQ16 > active radar homing DK-10?)





High performance frigate (HQ16)





4000 ton frigate(DK10?)







TopCat said:


> Do you understand the difference between automatic and manual? Automatic target tracking and firing vs firing with sight from soldier?


As shown, and as I have indicated in another thread some time ago, there are indeed 2 versions of the MANPAD launcher out there, one manned and one unmanned.

Aside from that, you should also realised that the fact there is a person in the missile unit does not preclude an automated slew to cue function. This is e.g. how the optically tracked US Avenger system (Stinger on Humvee) works: the engagement is under control of the turret operator but when hooked up to the FAAD C3I system, the turret automatically slews to the target general direction, placing the target in the gunner's field of view, cued by an external AN/MPQ-64 battlefield air-defence radar.



Nabil365 said:


> These Burmese shipships are not armed properly.I agree with you.But that's if they put this or if they put that.All they put were a few manpads.
> Just look at the range of their sam.


Don't attempt to twist what I said. The Burmese ships are armed just fine as they are. Equal or better in terms of all weapon systems except the SAM, compare to the four (light) frigates I mentioned. And given a very good close in gun armement, they are still well protected. However, they would be even better with a VL SAM, mainly because this would better against attacks with multiple missiles arriving from different directions simultaneously. But that also applies for F22P and Bangabunhu. 

Better range is always nice but note VL Sea Wolf does only 10km versus 50 for ESSM. FL3000N does 6-9km depending on target type. A manpads with 5.5-6km isn't much poorer and does have advantage of easier reloading while at sea, which will be an issue with FL3000N and HQ7/FM90.

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## Michael Corleone

hassamun said:


> Pakistan Navy has 10 Frigates while Bangladesh Navy has 7...Pakistan Navy has 13 Fast Attack Crafts while Bangladesh Navy has 22. (Respective Wiki Pages)
> 
> I think the Bangladeshi Navy put much more than a dime...


Pakistan doesn't place emphasis on their navy. Hence they got the destroyers sunk in their own port by the Indians in 71... There is more concentrated resource in the bay than perhaps any other place in the world. It's all to protect them too.


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## UKBengali

Avicenna said:


> So back to the frigates. Derivatives of Chinese Type 054+? I would assume the first examples have to be built in China. And evenutally inshAllah in house production.
> 
> These ships are 4000 tons approxamately.
> 
> Damn man. c-803 and hq-16s....with vls.
> 
> each example is around 350 million though so how can BN afford it?




Being built in BD, we are looking at around 250 million US dollars per ship. 6 would come to 1.5 billion US dollars.
Now these ships will come into service all the way through to 2025-2030 depending on how quickly BD can produce the vessels.
With a growing BD economy and Chinese easy payment terms finance will be no problem.


----------



## Nabil365

Penguin said:


> I haven't see an RfP or contract text, but China has much more ships on offer than 054A, which, at over 4000 tons, is a fairly large ship and possibly too large for the needs of a great many navies that would buy Chinese export ships. And purchases will depend on available budget + extended credit.
> 
> There are great offerings such as further developments of F22P (2 variants: Tiger andC28A), and there is also a further development of the C28A itself. On the lower end of the spectrum the multimission frigate. And at the higher end there are the High performance frigate and the 4k ton frigate.
> 
> Multimission frigate (1500 ton)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "F22P with VLS for HQ16" (don't know the official name, "Tiger frigate"?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C28A
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Modified C28A with VLS (don't know the official name. Note absense of radar target illuminators > VL SAM is NOT th HQ16 > active radar homing DK-10?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High performance frigate (HQ16)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 4000 ton frigate(DK10?)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As shown, and as I have indicated in another thread some time ago, there are indeed 2 versions of the MANPAD launcher out there, one manned and one unmanned.
> 
> Aside from that, you should also realised that the fact there is a person in the missile unit does not preclude an automated slew to cue function. This is e.g. how the optically tracked US Avenger system (Stinger on Humvee) works: the engagement is under control of the turret operator but when hooked up to the FAAD C3I system, the turret automatically slews to the target general direction, placing the target in the gunner's field of view, cued by an external AN/MPQ-64 battlefield air-defence radar.
> 
> 
> Don't attempt to twist what I said. The Burmese ships are armed just fine as they are. Equal or better in terms of all weapon systems except the SAM, compare to the four (light) frigates I mentioned. And given a very good close in gun armement, they are still well protected. However, they would be even better with a VL SAM, mainly because this would better against attacks with multiple missiles arriving from different directions simultaneously. But that also applies for F22P and Bangabunhu.
> 
> Better range is always nice but note VL Sea Wolf does only 10km versus 50 for ESSM. FL3000N does 6-9km depending on target type. A manpads with 5.5-6km isn't much poorer and does have advantage of easier reloading while at sea, which will be an issue with FL3000N and HQ7/FM90.


In modern warfare range is crucial.So you believe manpads are good enough to protect million dollar ships in an age of missile technology?


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## Nike

although missile range is crucial what is more crucial than that is your ability to detect and tracking the incoming hostile and reliably feed the data to your combat management systems to process the entire engagements. And please except the Bangabandhu class the BDNavy surface forces is very seriously lacking in this area, and the collection of handpicked old Frigates and newly acquired Type 056 corvettes doesnt address this problem at all

@Penguin

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## TopCat

madokafc said:


> although missile range is crucial what is more crucial than that is your ability to detect and tracking the incoming hostile and reliably feed the data to your combat management systems to process the entire engagements. And please except the Bangabandhu class the BDNavy surface forces is very seriously lacking in this area, and the collection of handpicked old Frigates and newly acquired Type 056 corvettes doesnt address this problem at all
> 
> @Penguin


All newly acquired BD ships are equipped with FL-3000 CIWS. I dont know much about FL-3000 capability but that should track and destroy the incoming hostile missile automatically.



> *FL-3000N / HHQ-10 Missile CIWS Air Defense System*
> The FL-3000N is the export designation of the HHQ-10 short-range Close-In Weapon System (CIWS) Air Defense System and developed by China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC).
> 
> The FL-3000N is designed to protect ships against saturation attacks and is very *similar to Raytheon's RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile (RAM)*. Both subsonic and supersonic threats can be engaged as well as multiple, highly maneuverable or sea-skimming targets simultaneously.
> 
> The fire-and-forget missiles contain a dual Passive Radio Frequency and Imaging Infra-Red seeker for guidance. Missiles can be launched at intervals of three seconds and lock on after launch. The HHQ-10 system has been installed on the Liaoning aircraft carrier and Type 056 class corvettes.
> 
> 
> FL-3000N specifications
> Maximum range: 9 km
> Maximum speed: Mach 2.5
> Length: 2 m
> Diameter: 0.12 m

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## Penguin

Nabil365 said:


> In modern warfare range is crucial.So you believe manpads are good enough to protect million dollar ships in an age of missile technology?


You really think FM-90 or VL Sea Wolf is (still) good enough? In that respect all the example with the exception of F25T are seriously lacking. And should I have to choose between FM-90 and VL Sea Wolf, I would still choose the latter, even if it has shorter range.



TopCat said:


> All newly acquired BD ships are equipped with FL-3000 CIWS. I dont know much about FL-3000 capability but that should track and destroy the incoming hostile missile automatically.


Yes, it is infrared homing. Just like Igla-1A, by the way. So, the main differences are range and warhead weight.

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## Homo Sapiens

I think In 2030, BN will have-
6 submarine- 2 Yuan class, 2 song class, 2 ming class
14 frigate-6 Type 054, 4 Daegu/Incheon class, 1 Ulsan class(Bangabandhu) and 3 Jianghu class(Refitted)
10 corvette-8 Type 056, 2 Castle class
42 Patrol vessels-8 Durjoy class, 24 Padma class, 10 other(Island class mostly)
@UKBengali @TopCat @Nabil365 @Khan saheb @BDforever what do you think?

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## TopCat

Penguin said:


> Yes, it is infrared homing. Just like Igla-1A, by the way. So, the main differences are range and warhead weight.


You talking about this? I did not find much about Igla 1A except that it is MANPAD converted to some kind of CIWS.

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## UKBengali

Doyalbaba said:


> I think In 2030, BN will have-
> 6 submarine- 2 Yuan class, 2 song class, 2 ming class
> 14 frigate-6 Type 054, 4 Daegu/Incheon class, 1 Ulsan class(Bangabandhu) and 3 Jianghu class(Refitted)
> 10 corvette-8 Type 056, 2 Castle class
> 42 Patrol vessels-8 Durjoy class, 24 Padma class, 10 other(Island class mostly)
> @UKBengali @TopCat @Nabil365 @Khan saheb @BDforever what do you think?



BN will likely also have 4 Type-052D destroyers or a derivative as these can match against Indian destroyers and have the long-range SAMs to threaten IAF over large areas of W Bengal.
This does depend on funding being available though.

Ming class may be retired by then with 2 extra Yuans to replace them.

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## Arthur

madokafc said:


> although missile range is crucial what is more crucial than that is your ability to detect and tracking the incoming hostile and reliably feed the data to your combat management systems to process the entire engagements. And please except the Bangabandhu class the BDNavy surface forces is very seriously lacking in this area, and the collection of handpicked old Frigates and newly acquired Type 056 corvettes doesnt address this problem at all
> 
> @Penguin



Do some research before starting to blabber.

Ever heard of Thales TACTIOS? BNS BB (DW 2000) deploys Thales tacticos, which is fully autonomous combat & data management system. This ship continually scans the deployed area, air & sea; uses Friends or Foe identification check to automatically pick,lock & fire upon the enemy target/targets. Moreover it deploys EW & ECM measures to prevent being targeted or hit by a enemy platform. DW 2000 class is eqaual to most of the western systems from that era & weight class. If some are not on the friendly list of that ship & not more powerful ship(by both qualitative & quantitative capabilities), they can start spending the sweat in getting better.

Type 56 too has an wide range of modern electronics, Link 16, EW & ECM & most advanced Chinese origin combat management system. They might not be big ship but they are fully capable of giving a bloody nose even to a bigger adversary. Long gone those days when someone can afford being a snooty nose about Chinese systems.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> BN will likely also have 4 Type-052D destroyers or a derivative as these can match against Indian destroyers



@Rain Man.... 

14 frigates, 4 destroyers- that's as big as present Royal Navy...

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## Homo Sapiens

UKBengali said:


> Ming class may be retired by then with 2 extra Yuans to replace them.


Yes, Ming class will be nearing the end of it's life time by then.I think, after acquiring 2 song class, BN will order 4 Yuan class at a time,but after 2025.By then Bangladesh will be a country of half a trillion dollar economy.So, spending 2 billion dollar on Yuan class submarine will not be a problem.If we can get friendship price from China(I am confident to get given the geopolitical realities) then a lot less than 2 billion.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> @Rain Man....
> 
> 14 frigates, 4 destroyers- that's as big as present Royal Navy...



Problem with China providing tech and soft loans for BD to have powerful Navy?
By 2030 BD economy is set to hit 1 trillion US dollars.
Now unless you have some useful input, please go away.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Problem with China providing tech and soft loans for BD to have powerful Navy?
> By 2030 BD economy is set to hit 1 trillion US dollars.



what ? 1 trillion ?

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> what ? 1 trillion ?



250 billion in 2017 and growing over 7% a year now.

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## Homo Sapiens

gslv mk3 said:


> what ? 1 trillion ?


Yes, 1 trillion, 750 billion in current dollar and 1 trillion in 2030 dollar.


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## gslv mk3

Doyalbaba said:


> Yes, 1 trillion, 750 billion in current dollar and 1 trillion in 2030 dollar.



Says who ?

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## Homo Sapiens

gslv mk3 said:


> Says who ?


Simple mathematics based on current economic trend expected to continue in near future.

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## UKBengali

Doyalbaba said:


> Simple mathematics based on current economic trend expected to continue in near future.



Too much for him to work out.

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## gslv mk3

Doyalbaba said:


> Simple mathematics based on current economic trend expected to continue in near future.



world bank predicts your growth rate in immediate 3 years as 6.4-6.7, but let take it as 7.

Your present GDP is 246 billion.

13 years later, it would be ~$600 billion.

Where did $750 billion come from ?



UKBengali said:


> Too much for him to work out.



Aw...says someone who claims that Bangladesh will have $1 trillion GDP in 2030.

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## Homo Sapiens

gslv mk3 said:


> world bank predicts your growth rate in immediate 3 years as 6.4-6.7, but let take it as 7.
> 
> Your present GDP is 246 billion.
> 
> 13 years later, it would be ~$600 billion.
> 
> Where did $750 billion come from ?


With inflation and base year changing it will certainly hit 1 trillion.


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## gslv mk3

Doyalbaba said:


> With inflation and base year changing it will certainly hit 1 trillion.



Oh sure, whatever.  Just like how India's PPP multiplier decrease because 'Indians would start loving foreign made products'.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> world bank predicts your growth rate in immediate 3 years as 6.4-6.7, but let take it as 7.
> 
> Your present GDP is 246 billion.
> 
> 13 years later, it would be ~$600 billion.
> 
> Where did $750 billion come from ?


Something called rebasing after a period of time. So currently BD economy actually bigger that $246 billion. I will add 20% to it to stay in the safe side.
There will be at least two more rebasing due in 13 years.
Then if the economy grows at this pace and export multiplied and foreign currency gets fatter there are more likely that BDT will appreciate 20-50% like what happens in China.



> Aw...says someone who claims that Bangladesh will have $1 trillion GDP in 2030.



I wont be surprised if it comes very close or surpasses $1 trillion.

PS: if BD can keep its current conversion rate steady then we can safely take nominal growth rate which is 12-13% per year instead of 6-7% a year.
I just calculated, it will be 1.2 trillion in 13 years with a anual growth of 13% without taking rebasing in account.

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## Penguin

madokafc said:


> although missile range is crucial what is more crucial than that is your ability to detect and tracking the incoming hostile and reliably feed the data to your combat management systems to process the entire engagements. And please except the Bangabandhu class the BDNavy surface forces is very seriously lacking in this area, and the collection of handpicked old Frigates and newly acquired Type 056 corvettes doesnt address this problem at all
> 
> @Penguin


In what way specifically? As compare to what? Says who ?

BNS Bangabndhu
Sensors and processing systems:

Thales TACTICOS _combat management system_.

Thales DA08 (SPQ-501/RAWS03) E/F band (S-band) medium range 2D air search radar (145-195km, depending version)

Thales VARIANT lightweight short/medium range 2D surface search radar, simultaneously operating in the X and C-band. It can track surface targets up to 70km and air targets up to 120km

Kelvin Hughes 1007 I-band navigation radar
Thales LIROD Mk 2 K-band TWT fire control radar
Thales MIRADOR optical surveillance and tracking system
Chinese Type 345 fire control radar (for FM-90)
Atlas ASO-90/ DSQS-21 Mod Sonar
Link Y Mk2 communication
Electronic warfare & decoys:

ESM:Racal Cutlass 242; intercept

Kyan Sittha
Sensors and processing systems:

Combat management system: ? (likely either Chinese ZKJ-3C or Indian BEL CMS)

BEL RAWL-02 Mk III L-band long range 2D search radar (MkIII=270km; mkII=165km) = licence built Signaal/Thales LW-08 (230km)

Chinese Type 362 missile-targeting X-band radar 3D short/medium range air search (100km) 

2 x Type 347 series fire control raders
BEL HMS-X hull mounted sonar
Lekiu
Sensors and processing systems:

Combat System: BAE Systems Insyte Nautis F combat data system
Thales Netherlands (Signaal) DA-08 E/F band (S-band) medium range 2D air search radar (230km)

Search radar: Ericsson Sea Giraffe-150 Surface search radar G and H bands (180km)

Navigation radar: Thales Defence I-band navigation radar
Fire control radars: 

2 × Marconi 1802SW / BAE SYSTEMS 1802 fire control radars operating at I and J bands

Radamec Series 2000 Optronic weapon director

Sonar: Thales Underwater Systems Spherion TSM 2633 LF sonar
Thermal Imager: BAE Type V 3001
Electronic warfare & decoys:

ESM: BAE Mentor-A

F22P
Sensors and processing systems:

_Chinese ZKJ-3C CMS (a variant of the French TAVITAC) _

Chinese SUR 17 (Type 517) A-band/VHF long range air surveillance radar (300km)

Chinese SR-60 (Type 360) E/F-band air/surface search radar (250km)

Kelvin-Hughes KH 2007 navigation radar
Chinese Type 345 director for FM-90N

2x Chinese Type 347 CIWS fire-control radar
Atlas ASO-94 Hull Mounted Sonar
Electronic warfare & decoys:

RWD-8 intercept
F25T
Sensors and processing systems:

Saab 9LV Mk. 4 combat management system with Saab TIDLS data link system
Thales LW08 L-band long range 2D search radar (230km)

Saab Sea Giraffe AMD G-band 3D surveillance radar (180km?)

Raytheon AN/SPS-64 either X or S band (depending version) navigation radar (120km)

2 × Saab CEROS 200 radar (Ku band) and optronic tracking fire control director
Atlas DSQS-24d sonar
Electronic warfare & decoys:

ESM ITT ES-3601 (AN/SLQ-4)

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## Nabil365

Penguin said:


> You really think FM-90 or VL Sea Wolf is (still) good enough? In that respect all the example with the exception of F25T are seriously lacking. And should I have to choose between FM-90 and VL Sea Wolf, I would still choose the latter, even if it has shorter range.
> 
> 
> Yes, it is infrared homing. Just like Igla-1A, by the way. So, the main differences are range and warhead weight.


Erm I was talking about igla Sam system not VL Sea wolf.


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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Something called rebasing after a period of time. So currently BD economy actually bigger that $246 billion. I will add 20% to it to stay in the safe side.
> There will be at least two more rebasing due in 13 years.



Let's see what happens. BTW, you know how much your government spends every year as a percent of GDP ? and how much of that goes to defense ?

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## Nike

Khan saheb said:


> Do some research before starting to blabber.
> 
> Ever heard of Thales TACTIOS? BNS BB (DW 2000) deploys Thales tacticos, which is fully autonomous combat & data management system. This ship continually scans the deployed area, air & sea; uses Friends or Foe identification check to automatically pick,lock & fire upon the enemy target/targets. Moreover it deploys EW & ECM measures to prevent being targeted or hit by a enemy platform. DW 2000 class is eqaual to most of the western systems from that era & weight class. If some are not on the friendly list of that ship & not more powerful ship(by both qualitative & quantitative capabilities), they can start spending the sweat in getting better.
> 
> Type 56 too has an wide range of modern electronics, Link 16, EW & ECM & most advanced Chinese origin combat management system. They might not be big ship but they are fully capable of giving a bloody nose even to a bigger adversary. Long gone those days when someone can afford being a snooty nose about Chinese systems.



lol read first then talk, what i said before is except BB class there is no serious asset within BD Navy and then they more likely to acts as stand alone system without data sharing ability with the rest of Bangladesh Navy. Ouch shit i forget this subforum still glorified platform over integrated networking system. Those type 56 fleets you had, as good as they may as corvettes but they lack of sonar and other ASW systems seriously hampered her capability as fleet escort

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## Nabil365

Doyalbaba said:


> I think In 2030, BN will have-
> 6 submarine- 2 Yuan class, 2 song class, 2 ming class
> 14 frigate-6 Type 054, 4 Daegu/Incheon class, 1 Ulsan class(Bangabandhu) and 3 Jianghu class(Refitted)
> 10 corvette-8 Type 056, 2 Castle class
> 42 Patrol vessels-8 Durjoy class, 24 Padma class, 10 other(Island class mostly)
> @UKBengali @TopCat @Nabil365 @Khan saheb @BDforever what do you think?


Cancel out the Korean frigates,very unlikely that they are coming.The navy can't afford so many different kinds.
Rest looks fine.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> There will be at least two more rebasing due in 13 years.



So 13 years later, you would have a ~$600 billion economy ( in current dollar, given that you grow at an average 7%) & a ~$110 billion budget (again, hoping that your tax to GDP & hence budget expenditure to GDP ratio will improve). So your defence budget might be ~$7 billion, same as Pakistan today.

And you want to operate a 4 destroyers as well as an air force larger than RAF ?


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> So 13 years later, you would have a ~$600 billion economy ( in current dollar, given that you grow at an average 7%) & a ~$110 billion budget (again, hoping that your tax to GDP & hence budget expenditure to GDP ratio will improve). So your defence budget might be ~$7 billion, same as Pakistan today.
> 
> And you want to operate a 4 destroyers as well as an air force larger than RAF ?



Yes. BD will get soft loans and Chinese equipment is cheaper than UK. All doable.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Yes. BD will get soft loans and Chinese equipment is cheaper than UK. All doable.



Yawn...come up with better arguments than that.

If that was the case, Pakistani military would have been very much different from what it is now.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> So 13 years later, you would have a ~$600 billion economy ( in current dollar, given that you grow at an average 7%) & a ~$110 billion budget (again, hoping that your tax to GDP & hence budget expenditure to GDP ratio will improve). So your defence budget might be ~$7 billion, same as Pakistan today.
> 
> And you want to operate a 4 destroyers as well as an air force larger than RAF ?


It will be more likely 1 trillion. With 1.5% of the GDP the defence budget will be close to 15 billion.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> It will be more likely 1 trillion. With 1.5% of the GDP the defence budget will be close to 15 billion.



in today's dollars ?


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Yawn...come up with better arguments than that.
> 
> If that was the case, Pakistani military would have been very much different from what it is now.



No Pakistan does not focus on Navy and spends a lot on nuclear weapons.

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## Penguin

Nabil365 said:


> Erm I was talking about igla Sam system not VL Sea wolf.


I know what you were talking about. And I asked you a question that is related. Yes, FL3000N, Sea Wolf and FN-90 have longer range than Igla-1A. However, in today's environgment, do you really think it matters if range is 6, 9, 10, or even 15km? Please consider Umkhonto and VL-Mica (both 20+km), RAM block II (22.5km rather than 9km), CAMM (at least 25km, possibly up to 60km), ESSM (50+km).

How 'superior' do F22P, Bangabundhu, Lekiu appear now, based on their SAMs? It is a BS line of argument: all these older systems (even FL-3000N and RAM block I) are _barely_ adequate in today's environment with long-range supersonic antiship missiles. There is no reason to claim 'superiority' of FM-90 or Sea Wolf over Igla-1A, just because of a few kilometers, while the former themselves are already barely adequate.

Having said that, I'ld still rather have a ship with one or 2 Simbad-RC mounts (with 2 Mistral manpads) than one with just guns.
"SIMBAD-RC provides an extremely effective defence capability against all threats including anti-ship missiles, combat aircraft, UAVs, helicopters, as well as small surface threats such as those presented by FIACs."
http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/simbad-rc/



madokafc said:


> lol read first then talk, what i said before is except BB class there is no serious asset within BD Navy and then they more likely to acts as stand alone system without data sharing ability with the rest of Bangladesh Navy. Ouch shit i forget this subforum still glorified platform over integrated networking system. Those type 56 fleets you had, as good as they may as corvettes but they lack of sonar and other ASW systems seriously hampered her capability as fleet escort


Yes, Bangabundhu is much better compares to the 3 ex-Chinese 053H1/H2. The ex-USCG Hamilton is a different animal (as this was capable of Harpoon, ASW torps, Phalanx CIWS etc. Used to have sonar as well), but now it only retains the 76mm Oto installed the 1980s (but its CMS may still be relatively good. It is called the 'Command, Display and Control system' (COMDAC), which collects and displays data on ten display screens to monitor subjects being tracked, maneuver, avoid collisions, create search and rescue patterns and locate individuals in the water. This system is also used for navigation, piloting and internal communications. COMDAC's uniqueness lies in its ability to receive data, to process and format it in accordance with predetermined doctrine (Navy and Coast Guard), and then to display it at any of several locations. The use of COMDAC provides for the reduction of Plotters and Status Board Keepers and also allows for the NTDS interface to accomplish the various Navy missions.).
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/whec-378.htm

Type 056 likely has a CMS (comparable to F22P or 053H3), it has what looks like a Chinese SR-60 (Type 360) E/F-band air/surface search radar (250km), a navigation radar set and a Type 347G radar/EL-OP director and a seperate ELOP gun director. It has another radar set to assist helicopter landings. All have bow sonar at least. Some also feature a sternmounted towed array / VDS.

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## Arthur

madokafc said:


> lol read first then talk, what i said before is except BB class there is no serious asset within BD Navy and then they more likely to acts as stand alone system without data sharing ability with the rest of Bangladesh Navy. Ouch shit i forget this subforum still glorified platform over integrated networking system. Those type 56 fleets you had, as good as they may as corvettes but they lack of sonar and other ASW systems seriously hampered her capability as fleet escort


lol

Study first.Bangladesh Navy has an integrated combat & data management network. All; ALL of its aerial, surface & subsurface platforms are integrated in the network. So again study first before blabbering. lol.

----_-------------

@Penguin What kind of advantage a automatic launcher fired MANPAD missile has over an ahh..'traditionally'(I mean by a sailor or a manual rack or stand) fired MANPAD?
I as a fact know BN ships do carry MANPADS to be fired 'traditionally'.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> No Pakistan does not focus on Navy and spends a lot on nuclear weapons.



Pakistan does focus on their Air Force- anyway, wasn't the equipment supposed to be 'donated by China' according to you?


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Pakistan does focus on their Air Force- anyway, wasn't the equipment supposed to be 'donated by China' according to you?



BD will be paying for some of the ships mentioned all the way to 2040.
Numbers make sense.
China wants a powerful BD for it's own interests.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> in today's dollars ?



I dont think dollar will much depreciate in 13 years. You can take 2% out for dollar depreciation (considering USA inflation) which makes growth rate 11% instead of 13% which make the gdp 955 billion in todays dollar and 14 billion in defence budget.


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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> BD will be paying for some of the ships mentioned all the way to 2040.
> Numbers make sense.
> China wants a powerful BD for it's own interests.



And China doesn't want a powerful Pakistan. Seems legit.


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Pakistan does focus on their Air Force- anyway, wasn't the equipment supposed to be 'donated by China' according to you?


Pakistan has to maintain ballistic missiles and nuclear arsenal. BD does not need them.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> And China doesn't want a powerful Pakistan. Seems legit.



Pakistan is powerful as India dares not attack it.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> which makes growth rate 11% instead of 13% which make the gdp 955 billion in todays dollar and 14 billion in defence budget.



Just like how Bangladesh will have nukes within 5 years ?



TopCat said:


> Pakistan has to maintain ballistic missiles and nuclear arsenal. BD does not need them.



And what says that those require several billions per year ? Again, it doesn't show why Pakistan doesn't have a fleets of hundreds of 4+ gen fighters bought with soft loan from China



TopCat said:


> gdp 955 billion in todays dollar



According to PwC,Bangladesh's GDP PPP in 2030 = $1.3 trillion.

http://www.dhakatribune.com/banglad...h-will-among-top-3-fastest-growing-economies/


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## war&peace

Well-done ✅ Bangladesh. Best wishes from Pakistan.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Just like how Bangladesh will have nukes within 5 years ?
> 
> 
> 
> And what says that those require several billions per year ? Again, it doesn't show why Pakistan doesn't have a fleets of hundreds of 4+ gen fighters bought with soft loan from China




160 is not "hundreds".

Pakistan has around 80 F-16s and plans to produce 150 JF-17 with a smaller defence budget in real terms than BD will have in 2030.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> 160 is not "hundreds".



160 is nearly 200.

Most of Pakistan's 80 F-16s were given by US on favorable terms to them over several years. But I simply don't see China donating J-10s to them.

And their present defence budget is greater than what BD would have in 2030 in todays dollars.


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> 160 is nearly 200.
> 
> Most of Pakistan's 80 F-16s were given by US on favorable terms to them over several years. But I simply don't see China donating J-10s to them.



Pakistan does not want J-10 as it is similar to
F-16.
China will not be giving BD free stuff but will sell at
cost or near cost price with easy payment terms over 5-10 years.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Pakistan does not want J-10 as it is similar to
> F-16.



Really ? They have been planning it's acquisition for years.


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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Really ? They have been planning it's acquisition for years.



Changed their mind as they did not want the cost and complexity of another fighter that added nothing to what F-16 can do.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Changed their mind as they did not want the cost and complexity of another fighter that added nothing to what F-16 can do.



Really ? where is their official statement about the same ? I would be amazed if they chose sanction prone F-16s over J-10.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Really ? where is their official statement about the same ? I would be amazed if they chose sanction prone F-16s over J-10.



Pakistan started off with F-16 and got used to the type.
Also there was an issue with Russian engines a decade ago which is now no longer the case.

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## Homo Sapiens

gslv mk3 said:


> And China doesn't want a powerful Pakistan. Seems legit.


Of course they want, That's why giving them 8 Yuan class submarine.

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## dray

gslv mk3 said:


> @Rain Man....
> 
> 14 frigates, 4 destroyers- that's as big as present Royal Navy...



Awww....he is being modest, Bangladesh will have 20 full carrier fleets, each thrice the size of any in the US Navy, and a zillion dollar economy by 2030. In fact Bangladeshi Taka will replace USD as the global currency by 2030.

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## Homo Sapiens

TopCat said:


> Pakistan has to maintain ballistic missiles and nuclear arsenal. BD does not need them.


Plus, Pakistan maintain a bulky army.A lot of money goes to just paying salary. I have read that Pakistan army trying to get rid of 50,000 batman!

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## BanglarBagh

Doyalbaba said:


> I think In 2030, BN will have-
> 6 submarine- 2 Yuan class, 2 song class, 2 ming class
> 14 frigate-6 Type 054, 4 Daegu/Incheon class, 1 Ulsan class(Bangabandhu) and 3 Jianghu class(Refitted)
> 10 corvette-8 Type 056, 2 Castle class
> 42 Patrol vessels-8 Durjoy class, 24 Padma class, 10 other(Island class mostly)
> @UKBengali @TopCat @Nabil365 @Khan saheb @BDforever what do you think?



i think the number of frigates will be 13: 6 054, 6 053h3 and ulsan
padma parol vessels are likely to be transferred to the coast guard as BN doesn't want to operate war ships less than 500 tons.
as for the other platforms i think you have a correct guess!!!


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## gslv mk3

Doyalbaba said:


> Of course they want, That's why giving them 8 Yuan class submarine.



Ah, it's now 8 ? Earlier it was 4


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## Homo Sapiens

gslv mk3 said:


> Ah, it's now 8 ? Earlier it was 4


Seams like, you have serious cognitive deficiency.I said 'them' which means Pakistan.You asked whether China want pakistan strong? I was replying that question.

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## gslv mk3

Doyalbaba said:


> Seams like, you have serious cognitive deficiency.I said 'them' which means Pakistan.You asked whether China want pakistan strong? I was replying that question.



So the all weather friend is only getting 8 subs, no fighters, no surface combatants ? 

What do you think you would get ?


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## damiendehorn

gslv mk3 said:


> what ? 1 trillion ?



GDP in 2004 was just $65bn (base 1995) and with an average growth rate of under 6% it has reached $247bn (base 2005) in 2017 (quadrupled) in just 13 years. GDP growth has now reached over 7% (without the major infrastructure investments coming on stream and political instability) and should exceed 8% (with padma setu connection, rail connection, EPZs, ports etc).

So the prospect of a $1tln GDP by 2030 is very likely.

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/bangladesh/nominal-gdp
https://www.google.co.uk/publicdata..._pcap_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en

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## Hassan Guy

Doyalbaba said:


> Of course they want, That's why giving them 8 Yuan class submarine.


China is transferring stealth submarine tech to Pakistan, 4 AIP subs will be built in Pakistan.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Hassan Guy said:


> China is transferring stealth submarine tech to Pakistan, 4 AIP subs will be built in Pakistan.


That's why price is so high. Makes sense...

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## UKBengali

damiendehorn said:


> GDP in 2004 was just $65bn (base 1995) and with an average growth rate of under 6% it has reached $247bn (base 2005) in 2017 (quadrupled) in just 13 years. GDP growth has now reached over 7% (without the major infrastructure investments coming on stream and political instability) and should exceed 8% (with padma setu connection, rail connection, EPZs, ports etc).
> 
> So the prospect of a $1tln GDP by 2030 is very likely.
> 
> https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/bangladesh/nominal-gdp
> https://www.google.co.uk/publicdata..._pcap_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en



Yep, in 2030 it will get to above 1 trillion US dollars in then prices.

BD building a powerful military by 2030 is very much affordable, even keeping the defence expenditure at current 1.4% of GDP. China will sell at a discounted price and also allow payments over 5-10 years at zero or very low rates of interest to BD.

The Indian(@gslv mk3) is either a little slow or just trolling for the sake of it. With the plan announced to build 6 4,000 tonne+ cutting-edge frigates in BD, they now know for sure that BD will create a very powerful military and their bullying days will soon be over.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> Yep, in 2030 it will get to above 1 trillion US dollars in then prices.
> 
> BD building a powerful military by 2030 is very much affordable, even keeping the defence expenditure at current 1.4% of GDP. China will sell at a discounted price and also allow payments over 5-10 years at zero or very low rates of interest to BD.
> 
> The Indian(@gslv mk3) is either a little slow or just trolling for the sake of it. With the plan announced to build 6 4,000 tonne+ cutting-edge frigates in BD, they now know for sure that BD will create a very powerful military and their bullying days will soon be over.



They are jealous and afraid...

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## gslv mk3

damiendehorn said:


> GDP in 2004 was just $65bn (base 1995) and with an average growth rate of under 6% it has reached $247bn (base 2005) in 2017 (quadrupled) in just 13 years. GDP growth has now reached over 7% (without the major infrastructure investments coming on stream and political instability) and should exceed 8% (with padma setu connection, rail connection, EPZs, ports etc).
> 
> So the prospect of a $1tln GDP by 2030 is very likely.
> 
> https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/bangladesh/nominal-gdp
> https://www.google.co.uk/publicdata..._pcap_cd&idim=country:BGD:IND:PAK&hl=en&dl=en



I ask @Nilgiri to throw light on this issue.



UKBengali said:


> The Indian(@gslv mk3) is either a little slow or just trolling for the sake of it. With the plan announced to build 6 4,000 tonne+ cutting-edge frigates in BD



Actually which plan was announced which says 4,000 tonne frigate ?


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## Penguin

Khan saheb said:


> @Penguin What kind of advantage a automatic launcher fired MANPAD missile has over an ahh..'traditionally'(I mean by a sailor or a manual rack or stand) fired MANPAD?
> I as a fact know BN ships do carry MANPADS to be fired 'traditionally'.


Let's see...

Automatic slew to cue, using external radar or IRST data.
Automatic target tracking with radar and/or electro-optronics (day/night, all weather operation)

Full launcher stabilization
Firing integrated with other ship defences (proper choice of countermeasure)

Automatic target prioritization and weapons allocation
i.e. faster and more effective target engagement as opposed to using Mk1 Eyeball and Mk1 Ear on a somewhat imprecise and unstable bio-organic mount/launcher controlled with fallible independent judgement.

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## UKBengali

gslv mk3 said:


> Actually which plan was announced which says 4,000 tonne frigate ?



Well it says 32 VLS + AshM will be part of the weapons on this frigate. Need a ship at least
4000 tonne+ for this.

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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Well it says 32 VLS + AshM will be part of the weapons on this frigate. Need a ship at least
> 4000 tonne+ for this.



Where ? official BN/CDDL press release ?


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## BDforever

Doyalbaba said:


> I think In 2030, BN will have-
> 6 submarine- 2 Yuan class, 2 song class, 2 ming class
> 14 frigate-6 Type 054, 4 Daegu/Incheon class, 1 Ulsan class(Bangabandhu) and 3 Jianghu class(Refitted)
> 10 corvette-8 Type 056, 2 Castle class
> 42 Patrol vessels-8 Durjoy class, 24 Padma class, 10 other(Island class mostly)
> @UKBengali @TopCat @Nabil365 @Khan saheb @BDforever what do you think?


correction: 8 subs, 5 Jianghu class, 6 new Indigenous build, 2 New Buy, 1 ulsan class.

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## Penguin

TopCat said:


> You talking about this? I did not find much about Igla 1A except that it is MANPAD converted to some kind of CIWS.


No, I'm not talking about this (Russian Gibka pedestal mounted Igla). I'm talking about the North Korean pedestal mounted MANPADS, which fires the North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS. The electro-optics are atop the bridge, about the middle window.

HT-16PGJ is an SA-16 copy. SA-16 is Igla-1 Gimlet (9K310)

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## Avicenna

@gslv mk3. seriously bud, give it up. enough with the trolling.

As for Pakistani F-16 and the question of acquiring J-10s. You have no idea what is going on. I suggest you hop over to that side of the forum to educate yourself.

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## gslv mk3

Avicenna said:


> @gslv mk3. seriously bud, give it up. enough with the trolling.



Sure $2 trillion economy by 2022 & a larger fleet than India & the UK combined. Now gotta go. bye.


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## Avicenna

Can't say that i will miss you. Adios.

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## TopCat

Penguin said:


> No, I'm not talking about this (Russian Gibka pedestal mounted Igla). I'm talking about the North Korean pedestal mounted MANPADS, which fires the North Korean HT-16PGJ MANPADS. The electro-optics are atop the bridge, about the middle window.
> 
> HT-16PGJ is an SA-16 copy. SA-16 is Igla-1 Gimlet (9K310)


Did you ever tested a n. Korean systems by yourself? Who knows...


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## Penguin

monitor said:


> View attachment 403450
> Bangladesh navy has taken initiative to build indigenous frigate with support from China. First frigate construction will start from 2018 . Navy has plan to have at least 12 guided missile frigate the figure could rise to 16 . This frigate will equiped with 32 VLS for medium range LY-80N Sam C-803 cruise missile and other modern equipment.


Adoption of LY-80 suggests at least:






but not




or





Because the latter two have illuminators (i.e. uses DK-10).

Somehow, I doubt Type 054A is available for export (why else at least 2 alternative export models in this tonnage bracket?).

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## Penguin

TopCat said:


> Did you ever tested a n. Korean systems by yourself? Who knows...


So you have a point you wish to make? Because I don't follow.

North Korean Nongo class (note SAM launcher and 14.5mm gatling guns)

















New North Korean corvette (Note SAM launcher rear, covered 14.5mm gatlings forward)

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## Avicenna

Penguin said:


> Adoption of LY-80 suggests at least:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but not
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Because the latter has no illuminators (i.e. uses DK-10).
> 
> Somehow, I doubt Type 054A is available for export (why else at least 2 alternative export models in this tonnage bracket?).



And this is why your THE man! Thanks for the insight.


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## TopCat

Penguin said:


> DSo you have a point you wish to make, because I don't follow.


Actually I don't want put my faith on a n. Korea system.


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## Avicenna

So what exactly are the alternatives? C28A for the Algerians? What else?

http://china-defense.blogspot.com/2013/01/exporting-type54-ffg.html

I came across that page, although its old.

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## Avicenna

LOL. Probably true.


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## Penguin

TopCat said:


> Actually I don't want put my faith on a n. Korea system.


Well, their Hwasong-7, also known as Rodong-1 or Nodong-1, medium-range ballistic missile is quite popular, feeding developments of Iranian Shahab-3 and Pakistan's Shaheen-1. They've also managed to make nuclear weapons. More than most countries have managed, I would say.

Alongside main battle tanks upgraded by the DPRK, various types of artillery, anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and light machine guns (LMGs) already present in today's conflict hotspots, analysis of imagery of weaponry used in the_ Syrian Civil War _shows the presence of North Korean man-portable air-defence systems (MANPADS) amongst various factions opposing the regime of president Bashar al-Assad. The sighting of this system has become common enough to suggest the scale of their initial delivery to the Assad regime was sizeable, although the fact that they are consistently identified as the similar Soviet Igla-1E (SA-16) system also used in Syria means they have largely remained unnoticed to this date.
Although MANPADS in general appear to be referred to as Hwaseong-Chong (Arquebus) in North Korea, it is thought the specific type exported to Syria is of their third or fourth indigenously developed generation. Early types copied from the Soviet 9K32 Strela-2 (SA-7) MANPADS (which might have donned the designation PGLM or CSA-3A) were likely developed in the 1980s, and what appears to have been an indigenous variant of the 9K34 Strela-3 (SA-14) was spotted as early as 1992. Development has ultimately resulted in a system which has only been identified in recent years, and which seems to have been derived from the Russian 9K38 Igla (SA-18). However, the MANPADS currently seen in Syria shares the most resemblance with the older 9K310 Igla-1 (SA-16) system, but with the characteristic tricone nose mounted on the missile replaced with the more modern aerodynamic spike also seen on the 9K38 Igla (SA-18) and 9K338 Igla-S (SA-24) systems it is likely its performance has been improved. The most significant other difference that allows the North Korean system to be discerned from it Soviet/Russian counterparts is the foreward placement of the thermal battery which powers the MANPADS. This component also determines whether the system is still operable; its depletion means the MANPADS has become useless.
Careful study of the box containing the missiles reveals that no less than three-hundred boxes were delivered, containing two missiles each for a total of 600 HT-16PGJ MANPADS.
Despite the fact that the Syrian War has seen its fair share of MANPADS variants, ranging from Soviet-legacy Strela-2M, Strela-3s and Igla-1s to Chinese FN-6s supplied by Qatar through Sudan and Russian Igla-S' provided a few years before the start of the conflict, anti-air defence from the multitude of factions currently roaming the Syrian skies remains scarce
Although unlikely to be the most capable MANPADS system currently to be found on the Syrian battlegrounds (a title which belongs to the Russian Igla-S system), it is certainly more effective than the older Strela-2, Strela-3 and Igla-1 systems, and possibly even the Chinese FN-6, which was found to be unreliable by the rebels that used them.
http://spioenkop.blogspot.nl/2016/03/north-korean-ht-16pgj-manpads-in-syria.html
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/mena/2016/03/22/north-korean-ht-16pgj-manpads-in-syria/







Likely SA-13 modernization using MANPADS





Much like this Russian SA-13 modernization, capable of Igla-1 or Igla-S.

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## Michael Corleone

Penguin said:


> So you have a point you wish to make? Because I don't follow.
> 
> North Korean Nongo class (note SAM launcher and 14.5mm gatling guns)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New North Korean corvette (Note SAM launcher rear, covered 14.5mm gatlings forward)


Chinese origin in design bro?


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## Penguin

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Chinese origin in design bro?


The SES FAC-M or the corvette? (I think neither: they look distinctly quirky, like most indigenous North Korean systems)






Same with 76mm?

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## Hassan Guy

OrdinaryGenius said:


> That's why price is so high. Makes sense...


Official price hasn't even been disclosed.

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## Avicenna

Can we please merge the two threads related to the Frigate program?

Also I just wanted to add this link here. Really nice article regarding the Chinese Type 054/54+.

Maybe BN has some sort of smaller derivative of this in mind?

http://www.chinasignpost.com/2015/0...-and-deployed-large-modern-surface-combatant/

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## Michael Corleone

Penguin said:


> The SES FAC-M or the corvette? (I think neither: they look distinctly quirky, like most indigenous North Korean systems)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same with 76mm?


The corvette... Last photo. Looks quite modern for north Korean weapons.


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## Nike

Penguin said:


> I know what you were talking about. And I asked you a question that is related. Yes, FL3000N, Sea Wolf and FN-90 have longer range than Igla-1A. However, in today's environgment, do you really think it matters if range is 6, 9, 10, or even 15km? Please consider Umkhonto and VL-Mica (both 20+km), RAM block II (22.5km rather than 9km), CAMM (at least 25km, possibly up to 60km), ESSM (50+km).
> 
> How 'superior' do F22P, Bangabundhu, Lekiu appear now, based on their SAMs? It is a BS line of argument: all these older systems (even FL-3000N and RAM block I) are _barely_ adequate in today's environment with long-range supersonic antiship missiles. There is no reason to claim 'superiority' of FM-90 or Sea Wolf over Igla-1A, just because of a few kilometers, while the former themselves are already barely adequate.
> 
> Having said that, I'ld still rather have a ship with one or 2 Simbad-RC mounts (with 2 Mistral manpads) than one with just guns.
> "SIMBAD-RC provides an extremely effective defence capability against all threats including anti-ship missiles, combat aircraft, UAVs, helicopters, as well as small surface threats such as those presented by FIACs."
> http://www.mbda-systems.com/product/simbad-rc/
> 
> 
> Yes, Bangabundhu is much better compares to the 3 ex-Chinese 053H1/H2. The ex-USCG Hamilton is a different animal (as this was capable of Harpoon, ASW torps, Phalanx CIWS etc. Used to have sonar as well), but now it only retains the 76mm Oto installed the 1980s (but its CMS may still be relatively good. It is called the 'Command, Display and Control system' (COMDAC), which collects and displays data on ten display screens to monitor subjects being tracked, maneuver, avoid collisions, create search and rescue patterns and locate individuals in the water. This system is also used for navigation, piloting and internal communications. COMDAC's uniqueness lies in its ability to receive data, to process and format it in accordance with predetermined doctrine (Navy and Coast Guard), and then to display it at any of several locations. The use of COMDAC provides for the reduction of Plotters and Status Board Keepers and also allows for the NTDS interface to accomplish the various Navy missions.).
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/whec-378.htm
> 
> Type 056 likely has a CMS (comparable to F22P or 053H3), it has what looks like a Chinese SR-60 (Type 360) E/F-band air/surface search radar (250km), a navigation radar set and a Type 347G radar/EL-OP director and a seperate ELOP gun director. It has another radar set to assist helicopter landings. All have bow sonar at least. Some also feature a sternmounted towed array / VDS.



BD variants doesnt sport bow mounted sonar nor bringing triple launcher torps. Thats C13B for you.

@khan_saheb

integrated my ***, with nitpicking assets and lacks of integrated command and surveillance systems what kind of C4ISR capability BD has

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## Avicenna

As in that article approximate price is about 350 million per unit. Not sure if that figure refers to Type 054 or 54+.

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## TopCat

madokafc said:


> BD variants doesnt sport bow mounted sonar nor bringing triple launcher torps. Thats C13B for you.
> 
> @khan_saheb
> 
> integrated my ***, with nitpicking assets and lacks of integrated command and surveillance systems what kind of C4ISR capability BD has


Actually they got secret aegis system

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## Arthur

madokafc said:


> BD variants doesnt sport bow mounted sonar nor bringing triple launcher torps. Thats C13B for you.
> 
> @khan_saheb
> 
> integrated my ***, with nitpicking assets and lacks of integrated command and surveillance systems what kind of C4ISR capability BD has


It has haul mounted sonar and can be fitted with twoed sonar. Torpedo launchers are plug in, load, shoot. See the Chinese tv report. Your ignorant blah blah blabbering is amusing.

Yes yes, I know you must have an ***, no doubt there. I am just not sure whether you keep your head between them.

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## Nabil365

Khan saheb said:


> It has haul mounted sonar and can be fitted with twoed sonar. Torpedo launchers are plug in, load, shoot. See the Chinese tv report. Your ignorant blah blah blabbering is amusing.
> 
> Yes yes, I know must have has an ***, no doubt there. I am just not sure whether you keep your head between them.


Let them be.They try desperately to compete with SG navy.
Meanwhile in Changi Naval Baselol:


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## Penguin

madokafc said:


> BD variants doesnt sport bow mounted sonar nor bringing triple launcher torps. Thats C13B for you.



All depictions of 056 show a bow mounted sonar, 056A also has towed array/VDS. But indeed P18/C13B is without ASW fit and this is pretty ... shortsighted: even BNs 053H1/h2 have sonar and basic ASW weapons. Well, ... at least they have done something about the close in gun armament (if perhaps at the cost of ASW capability?). Anyway, these will come with some form of CMS, either similar to that on Durjoy or e.g. that used on F22P and/or C28A.

BNS Shadhinota (F111)





BNS Prottoy (F112)







madokafc said:


> integrated my ***, with nitpicking assets and lacks of integrated command and surveillance systems what kind of C4ISR capability BD has


I'm just looking at the ships, not what backs them.

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## Shivani87

Ambitious project. Just as it should be. I would love to see the design when its ready. And all the best BD.

India is also planning on a super abtitious project with the design looking something like this. We have never done anything remotely close. Will be fun.
Mind you this is only an indicative design on the kind of stealth exterior we are going for.






@Aung Zaya your new corvette is really nice looking man. Beauty.

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## Banglar Bir

Shivani87 said:


> Ambitious project. Just as it should be. I would love to see the design when its ready. And all the best BD.
> 
> India is also planning on a super abtitious project with the design looking something like this. We have never done anything remotely close. Will be fun.
> Mind you this is only an indicative design on the kind of stealth exterior we are going for.
> 
> @Aung Zaya your new corvette is really nice looking man. Beauty.


Indeed foolish and amateurish to assume the Myanmar are the bed partners of the Indians, they are pro Chinese by heart and race.


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## Penguin

Khan saheb said:


> It has haul mounted sonar and can be fitted with twoed sonar. Torpedo launchers are plug in, load, shoot. See the Chinese tv report. Your ignorant blah blah blabbering is amusing.


Adding a bow sonar after the fact is possible but would require docking and 'hull surgery' . Same for the towed array/VDS. Torpedo launchers normally are mounted inside the superstructure near the flight deck: there are no hatches there now. So, I would have to disagree with the idea that it would be an _easy _refit with 'plug an play addition of weapons and sensor systems.

Compare C13B bow






With regular 056 bow






Compare C13B stern





With 056A stern









ASW torpedo tube installation visible here (near FL3000N):







BANGLAR BIR said:


> Indeed foolish and amateurish to assume the Myanmar are the bed partners of the Indians, they are pro Chinese by heart and race.


Well, their latest ships do incorporate sensor and weapon systems from India....

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## Shivani87

BANGLAR BIR said:


> Indeed foolish to assume that t Myanmar are the bed partners with the Indians, they are pro Chinese by heart and race.



This is BD defence section. A BD that is improving all of their indicators lately and starting ambitious defence projects. A bengali race that I associate with intellectual excellence and liberalism.

If YOU dont care about the quality of posting here beyond childish tripe, please dont blame others.

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## Arthur

Penguin said:


> But indeed P18/C13B is without ASW fit and this is pretty ... shortsighted: even BNs 053H1/h2 have sonar and basic ASW weapons. Well, ... at least they have done something about the close in gun armament (if perhaps at the cost of ASW capability?). Anyway, these will come with some form of CMS, either similar to that on Durjoy or e.g. that used on F22P and/or C28A.


C13B was modified for Littoral warfare/Surface area denial. IMHO philosophically these are close to the original British Alvand Class design for the Iranian Navy. Major Design difference is present also Chinese used 2 extra diesel engine instead of gas turbines.



Penguin said:


> Adding a bow sonar after the fact is possible but would require docking and 'hul surgery' . Same for the towed array/VDS. Torpedo launchers normally are mounted inside the hull near the flight deck: there are no hatches there now. So, I would have to diagree with the idea that it would be an easy refit with 'plug an play addition of weapons and sensor systems.


Your observation is accurate as always. But I posted that on the Chinese TV report when the ships were launched. That report said this ship has some kind of sonar on the haul. Anyway though shortsighted, I think considering the role it is supposed to play & the modification it shows it might make sense to the BN guys.

I have a question though. How much the bulbous bow would effect the speed of the ship in a 'shoot & scoot' scenario? What do you think on the matter?

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## Banglar Bir

Shivani87 said:


> *This is BD defence section. A BD that is improving all of their indicators lately and starting ambitious defence projects. A bengali race that I associate with intellectual excellence and liberalism.*


Probably not directed against you, however against those Indian members repeatedly trolling and trying to derail the relevant posts in BD Defense threads. Thanks for your compliments.

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## Penguin

Khan saheb said:


> I have a question though. How much the bulbous bow would effect the speed of the ship in a 'shoot & scoot' scenario? What do think on the matter?


Not negatively, perhaps even positively. Marginally in any case.

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## Aung Zaya

Shivani87 said:


> @Aung Zaya your new corvette is really nice looking man. Beauty.


ha ha.thz bro. this is our indigenous design may be with the help of foreign nations. the next one of this class would have larger in size.

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## Penguin

Khan saheb said:


> C13B was modified for Littoral warfare/Surface area denial. IMHO philosophically these are close to the original British Alvand Class design for the Iranian Navy. Major Design difference is present also Chinese used 2 extra diesel engine instead of gas turbines.


But the Alvand class, as edlivered to Iran, had 1 × 3 barrelled Anti Submarine Mortar Mark 10 Limbo launcher. The firing of the Mortar Mk 10 was controlled by the British Type 170 (and later the Type 502) narrow beam attack sonar and Type 174, a medium range search sonars (giving slant range). They were refitted in the UK shortly before the 1979 Iranian Revolution. At which point 2 × triple 12.75 in (324 mm) torpedo tubes were installed and the Limbo mortar removed (and sonar likely changed).

Limbo is between Sea Killer launcher and stern gun.





















Here 324mm torpedo tubes have replaces the Limbo mortar

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## BDforever

Penguin said:


> But the Alvand class, as edlivered to Iran, had 1 × 3 barrelled Anti Submarine Mortar Mark 10 Limbo launcher. The firing of the Mortar Mk 10 was controlled by the British Type 170 (and later the Type 502) narrow beam attack sonar and Type 174, a medium range search sonars (giving slant range). They were refitted in the UK shortly before the 1979 Iranian Revolution. At which point 2 × triple 12.75 in (324 mm) torpedo tubes were installed and the Limbo mortar removed (and sonar likely changed).
> 
> Limbo is between Sea Killer launcher and stern gun.


BNS Shadhinota has ASW rocket launcher, so surely it has some submarine detection system
http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...d-to-bangladesh-navy-by-chinese-shipyard.html

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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> BNS Shadhinota has ASW rocket launcher, so surely it has some submarine detection system
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...d-to-bangladesh-navy-by-chinese-shipyard.html




BNS _Shadhinota_ (F111) was launched in November 2014 and BNS _Prottoy_ (F112) was launched in January this year.

Bangladesh C13B-class corvette retains most of the sensor and weapon systems found on board Chinese Navy Type 056 corvettes:
» 4x C-803 (export version of YJ-83) Anti-ship missiles (2 launchers with 2 missiles each)
» 1x FL-3000N (export version of AJK-10 / HQ-10) Surface to air missile launcher (8x missiles)
» 1x H/PJ-26 76mm main gun (similar to Russian AK-176)
» 2x H/PJ-17 30mm dual mode (auto/manual) remote controlled naval turret
The Bangladesh Navy corvette however will be fitted with one Type 730 CIWS and two Type 3200 ASW rocket launchers will replace the two triple torpedo launchers


*Why so niking and picking

C-803, FL-3000, 730 CIWS, 3200 ASW will put this tiny ship anything but ahead of Burmese navy's 3000 ton super duper frigate. *

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## Arthur

Penguin said:


> But the Alvand class, as edlivered to Iran, had 1 × 3 barrelled Anti Submarine Mortar Mark 10 Limbo launcher. The firing of the Mortar Mk 10 was controlled by the British Type 170 (and later the Type 502) narrow beam attack sonar and Type 174, a medium range search sonars (giving slant range). They were refitted in the UK shortly before the 1979 Iranian Revolution. At which point 2 × triple 12.75 in (324 mm) torpedo tubes were installed and the Limbo mortar removed (and sonar likely changed).
> 
> Limbo is between Sea Killer launcher and stern gun.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here 324mm torpedo tubes have replaces the Limbo mortar


Yes I understand the obvious difference of a complete ASW suit between them. I should have said 'Alvandv vis a vis it's successor Mowj'. I was considering the surface denial philosophy working behind them. Like after the enemy entered the radar/missile range, they lock the target and fire one/multiple missiles & use all the engines to make a dash out of the area. Like a bigger version of a FAC, just in this case much bigger.
It's very puzzling that the bow mounted sonar wasn't installed. In my book Surface Area Denial & ASW suit aren't mutually exclusive. Then again AFAIK they still has a haul mounted sonar. And there is the ASW rockets. How do they use them if they don't have any sonar? Really Puzzling.

You can read on this old Sinodefence thread on Mowj Class Visa a vis Alvand Class.That if you haven't already.

https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/iran-finally-launched-mowj-destroyer-read-corvette.t2960/

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## BDforever

TopCat said:


> BNS _Shadhinota_ (F111) was launched in November 2014 and BNS _Prottoy_ (F112) was launched in January this year.
> 
> Bangladesh C13B-class corvette retains most of the sensor and weapon systems found on board Chinese Navy Type 056 corvettes:
> » 4x C-803 (export version of YJ-83) Anti-ship missiles (2 launchers with 2 missiles each)
> » 1x FL-3000N (export version of AJK-10 / HQ-10) Surface to air missile launcher (8x missiles)
> » 1x H/PJ-26 76mm main gun (similar to Russian AK-176)
> » 2x H/PJ-17 30mm dual mode (auto/manual) remote controlled naval turret
> The Bangladesh Navy corvette however will be fitted with one Type 730 CIWS and two Type 3200 ASW rocket launchers will replace the two triple torpedo launchers
> 
> 
> *Why so niking and picking
> 
> C-803, FL-3000, 730 CIWS, 3200 ASW will put this tiny ship anything but ahead of Burmese navy's 3000 ton super duper frigate. *

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## Aung Zaya

TopCat said:


> 4x C-803 (export version of YJ-83) Anti-ship missiles (2 launchers with 2 missiles each)


prove that it's C-803. C-803 is only for PLA version. 


TopCat said:


> C-803, FL-3000, 730 CIWS, 3200 ASW will put this tiny ship anything but ahead of Burmese navy's 3000 ton super duper frigate.


well. so our ship will upgrade SAM and will replace 3 CIWS with 2 Kashtan. also putting RBU 6000 2 set. so where is ur small corvette lag behind ? i dont see anymore. lol


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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> prove that it's C-803. C-803 is only for PLA version.


Watch the video which says it is by chinese media.



> well. so our ship will upgrade SAM and will replace 3 CIWS with 2 Kashtan. also putting RBU 6000 2 set. so where is ur small corvette lag behind ? i dont see anymore. lol



Corvette is for corvette role. We are not upgrading it. You should make your ship a frigate first.
Kashtan/RBU 6000 will put your frigate as par with aircraft carrier. You better build a AC next time. 
It is too much of a low value asset.. unless you care for your sailor too much. I dont think you do... do you?

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## Aung Zaya

BDforever said:


> BNS Shadhinota has ASW rocket launcher, so surely it has some submarine detection system
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...d-to-bangladesh-navy-by-chinese-shipyard.html


nope. they dont have ASW rocket. even in PLA version , it have only 324mm triple torpedo tube.. no ASW rocket.




so if u think it have , point me. where is ASW rocket.?


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## Nike

BDforever said:


> BNS Shadhinota has ASW rocket launcher, so surely it has some submarine detection system
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...d-to-bangladesh-navy-by-chinese-shipyard.html



the punch word is "will"

The Bangladesh Navy corvette however *will be fitted* with one Type 730 CIWS and two Type 3200 ASW rocket launchers will replace the two triple torpedo launchers




Khan saheb said:


> It has haul mounted sonar and can be fitted with twoed sonar. Torpedo launchers are plug in, load, shoot. See the Chinese tv report. Your ignorant blah blah blabbering is amusing.
> 
> Yes yes, I know you must have an ***, no doubt there. I am just not sure whether you keep your head between them.




where is the launcher? where is the hull mounted sonar (even you can't spelled the word hull properly)? Plug and play the ***, i think you are playing legos too much

and about integrated fighting system the BD armed forces has? can we break it down one by one by the assets the Bangladesh Armed Forces has and acquired?

1. Is BD armed Forces in possession of locally owned satellites for comm and relay data for their military and government agencies? Nope
2. Is BD armed forces in possession of ISR assets like MPA Aircraft, ESM planes, ASW aircraft, ISTAR and other ? yes, but only a handful number of TWO Do228 NG which is short legged. The rest is nil
3. Is BD Naval Ships and ground combat units had been equipped with SATCOM and getting Datalink system? the only one being known to have been equipped with such is BNS Bangabandhu, but with whom she will exchange the datas as she being equipped with Link YMk 2, and the rest of BN is Chinese origin

heck, the majority of BD Air Force fleets is mix match of Russian and Chinese origin in which most of them still relying on dumb bombs and short range AA missiles for their mission. There is no need for ground unit equipped with laser guiding equipments 


BD Navy is surely growing at rapid phase, but the lack and deficiencies is still prevalent

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> prove that it's C-803. C-803 is only for PLA version.


I invite you for security clearance. Tomorrow you will be taken abroad the ship to be proven... after all that's what you're asking. XD

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## BDforever

madokafc said:


> the punch word is "will"
> 
> The Bangladesh Navy corvette however *will be fitted* with one Type 730 CIWS and two Type 3200 ASW rocket launchers will replace the two triple torpedo launchers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where is the launcher? where is the hull mounted sonar (even you can't spelled the word hull properly)? Plug and play the ***, i think you are playing legos too much
> 
> and about integrated fighting system the BD armed forces has? can we break it down one by one by the assets the Bangladesh Armed Forces has and acquired?
> 
> 1. Is BD armed Forces in possession of locally owned satellites for comm and relay data for their military and government agencies? Nope
> 2. Is BD armed forces in possession of ISR assets like MPA Aircraft, ESM planes, ASW aircraft, ISTAR and other ? yes, but only a handful number of TWO Do228 NG which is short legged. The rest is nil
> 3. Is BD Naval Ships and ground combat units had been equipped with SATCOM and getting Datalink system? the only one being known to have been equipped with such is BNS Bangabandhu, but with whom she will exchange the datas as she being equipped with Link YMk 2, and the rest of BN is Chinese origin
> 
> heck, the majority of BD Air Force fleets is mix match of Russian and Chinese origin in which most of them still relying on dumb bombs and short range AA missiles for their mission. There is no need for ground unit equipped with laser guiding equipments
> 
> 
> BD Navy is surely growing at rapid phase, but the lack and deficiencies is still prevalent


i am asking you few questions:
1 Is Bangladesh getting any ASW aircraft ?
2. How do BD Navy ships communicate with each other ?

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## Nike

BDforever said:


> i am asking you few questions:
> 1 Is Bangladesh getting any ASW aircraft ?
> 2. How do BD Navy ships communicate with each other ?



1. The only reliable report is Bangladesh will purchase ASW copter


to have a radio is sure as every warship built after WW I sure have radio on them,

but to have a datalink system to feed each other realtime datas to be processed by modern Combat Management System is a whole different thing

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## TopCat

madokafc said:


> 1. The only reliable report is Bangladesh will purchase ASW copter
> 
> 
> to have a radio is sure as every warship built after WW I sure have radio on them,
> 
> but to have a datalink system to feed each other realtime datas to be processed by modern Combat Management System is a whole different thing


BD navy actually do that with walkie talkie.

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## BDforever

madokafc said:


> 1. The only reliable report is Bangladesh will purchase ASW copter
> 
> 
> to have a radio is sure as every warship built after WW I sure have radio on them,
> 
> but to have a datalink system to feed each other realtime datas to be processed by modern Combat Management System is a whole different thing


1. I agree, reliable report is BD will purchase ASW copter but will not get ownership.
2. and no, BD Navy communicate via light signals.

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## Arthur

madokafc said:


> where is the launcher? where is the hull mounted sonar (even you can't spelled the word hull properly)? Plug and play the ***, i think you are playing legos too much


Pardon the spelling, but it's an Internet forum not grammar class. Nothing to do with the topic.



madokafc said:


> BD armed forces has? can we break it down one by one by the assets the Bangladesh Armed Forces has and


ohhh...please do...



madokafc said:


> 1. Is BD armed Forces in possession of locally owned satellites for comm and relay data for their military and government agencies? Nope
> 2. Is BD armed forces in possession of ISR assets like MPA Aircraft, ESM planes, ASW aircraft, ISTAR and other ? yes, but only a handful number of TWO Do228 NG which is short legged. The rest is nil
> 
> 3. Is BD Naval Ships and ground combat units had been equipped with SATCOM and getting Datalink system? the only one being known to have been equipped with such is BNS Bangabandhu, but with whom she will exchange the datas as she being equipped with Link YMk 2, and the rest of BN is Chinese origin


1.No. But local ownership has no role to play here if you are not in the big league.BN has Access to Chinese satellites & that's enough for their need in current scenario.

2. Yes. MPA, Shipborne heli.

You are contradicting yourself here. You are trying to take the upperhand in the discussion by twisting words. DO228 MPA being short legged jas nothing to do with having satcom/datalink with other ships and platform. You asked if BN has ISR platform & the answer is yes.

So ISR capabilities are present to some extent.
DO 228 MPA, Augusta helis have datalinks with rest of the ground bases & fleet.

No ESM Plane. But Ships are equipped with ESM/ECM/EW suit. DW 2000, Type 53, Type 56 all has ESM, ECM, EW suit onboard. These aren't very rare info. Interestingly these info are available in public domains. Again shows you aren't doing your research or just intentionally ignoring the research.

3. Utter misinformation & deception again. These are public domain info. All the ships in the fleet regardless of their origin has SATCOM & Datalink. Someone just have to Google the ship types & the infos are available.

Type 53 -
ZKJ-3 combat management system.

Data link: HN-900 (Chinese equivalent of Link 11A/B
Communication: SNTI-240SATCOM
Type 56 -

ZKJ-3C combat management system.

Data link: HN-900 (Chinese equivalent of Link 11A/B
Communication: SNTI-240SATCOM
So you see your repeated "Chinese origin" mantra is bs.



madokafc said:


> heck, the majority of BD Air Force fleets is mix match of Russian and Chinese origin in which most of them still relying on dumb bombs and short range AA missiles for their mission. There is no need for ground unit equipped with laser guiding equipments


Where did this BAF discussion came from? Nothing to do with this topic. Stay on topic.



madokafc said:


> BD Navy is surely growing at rapid phase, but the lack and deficiencies is still prevalent


Yes. So try put your hatred aside & watch out for the developments.



BDforever said:


> i am asking you few questions:
> 1 Is Bangladesh getting any ASW aircraft ?
> 2. How BD Navy ships communicate with each other ?


Give it rest,bro. It's pointless to reason with her.

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## Michael Corleone

TopCat said:


> BD navy actually do that with walkie talkie.





madokafc said:


> 1. The only reliable report is Bangladesh will purchase ASW copter
> 
> 
> to have a radio is sure as every warship built after WW I sure have radio on them,
> 
> but to have a datalink system to feed each other realtime datas to be processed by modern Combat Management System is a whole different thing


Pfffttt.... Last time I was using paper cups in sea and they were just fine.

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## Aung Zaya

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I invite you for security clearance. Tomorrow you will be taken abroad the ship to be proven... after all that's what you're asking. XD


C-803 isn't for export so far and only used for PLA. that's C-802 or little chance of C-802A.
according to SIPRI database, BD procuring for type 056 was C-802 AshM. not C-803. that's why may be bro penguin take them as C-802. 







the link u guys provided is no solid since they added RBU 3200 ASW rocket into type 056 weapon list. there is no ASW rocket since they were commissioned. even in PLA version , it got only 324mm triple torpedo tube. no ASW rocket.

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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> C-803 isn't for export so far and only used for PLA. that's C-802 or little chance of C-802A.
> according to SIPRI database, BD procuring for type 056 was C-802 AshM. not C-803. that's why may be bro penguin take them as C-802.
> 
> View attachment 413720
> 
> 
> the link u guys provided is no solid since they added RBU 3200 ASW rocket into type 056 weapon list. there is no ASW rocket since they were commissioned. even in PLA version , it got only 324mm triple torpedo tube. no ASW rocket.


I'm really pissed about the 300 more type 59 tank purchase. How could bd do such a fuckup.


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I'm really pissed about the 300 more type 59 tank purchase. How could bd do such a fuckup.



BD did not buy the Type-59 but they were converted to Type-59G from the stocks that BD had.

Type-59G tank is comparable to the Type-96 that is widely used in the Chinese army.

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## TopCat

Aung Zaya said:


> C-803 isn't for export so far and only used for PLA. that's C-802 or little chance of C-802A.
> according to SIPRI database, BD procuring for type 056 was C-802 AshM. not C-803. that's why may be bro penguin take them as C-802.
> 
> View attachment 413720
> 
> 
> the link u guys provided is no solid since they added RBU 3200 ASW rocket into type 056 weapon list. there is no ASW rocket since they were commissioned. even in PLA version , it got only 324mm triple torpedo tube. no ASW rocket.


There is no official name called C-803. C802 which has the charateristcs close to YJ-83 are called C-803 by the laymen. The reporter and sipri are both right.

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## Avicenna

madokafc said:


> the punch word is "will"
> 
> The Bangladesh Navy corvette however *will be fitted* with one Type 730 CIWS and two Type 3200 ASW rocket launchers will replace the two triple torpedo launchers
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> where is the launcher? where is the hull mounted sonar (even you can't spelled the word hull properly)? Plug and play the ***, i think you are playing legos too much
> 
> and about integrated fighting system the BD armed forces has? can we break it down one by one by the assets the Bangladesh Armed Forces has and acquired?
> 
> 1. Is BD armed Forces in possession of locally owned satellites for comm and relay data for their military and government agencies? Nope
> 2. Is BD armed forces in possession of ISR assets like MPA Aircraft, ESM planes, ASW aircraft, ISTAR and other ? yes, but only a handful number of TWO Do228 NG which is short legged. The rest is nil
> 3. Is BD Naval Ships and ground combat units had been equipped with SATCOM and getting Datalink system? the only one being known to have been equipped with such is BNS Bangabandhu, but with whom she will exchange the datas as she being equipped with Link YMk 2, and the rest of BN is Chinese origin
> 
> heck, the majority of BD Air Force fleets is mix match of Russian and Chinese origin in which most of them still relying on dumb bombs and short range AA missiles for their mission. There is no need for ground unit equipped with laser guiding equipments
> 
> 
> BD Navy is surely growing at rapid phase, but the lack and deficiencies is still prevalent



Excellent post and very valid points!

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## gslv mk3

BDforever said:


> 2. How do BD Navy ships communicate with each other ?



inmarsat ?


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## Penguin

BDforever said:


> BNS Shadhinota has ASW rocket launcher, so surely it has some submarine detection system
> http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...d-to-bangladesh-navy-by-chinese-shipyard.html


That navyrecognition article says: "The Bangladesh Navy corvette however will be fitted with one Type 730 CIWS and two Type 3200 ASW rocket launchers will replace the two triple torpedo launchers"

Here'as pic of BNS Shadhinota





So, lets see what's visible:

no Type 730 CIWS
no Tye 3200 ASW rocket launchers
This is where such launchers normally are installed, in the bow area.

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## BDforever

>


bro check this at 5:40 min, i am not sure what is it.

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## Penguin

Khan saheb said:


> Yes I understand the obvious difference of a complete ASW suit between them. I should have said 'Alvandv vis a vis it's successor Mowj'. I was considering the surface denial philosophy working behind them. Like after the enemy entered the radar/missile range, they lock the target and fire one/multiple missiles & use all the engines to make a dash out of the area. Like a bigger version of a FAC, just in this case much bigger.
> 
> You can read on this old Sinodefence thread on Mowj Class Visa a vis Alvand Class.That if you haven't already.
> 
> https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/iran-finally-launched-mowj-destroyer-read-corvette.t2960/




Mowj: 2x3 TR ASW. Like Alvand.







Khan saheb said:


> It's very puzzling that the bow mounted sonar wasn't installed. In my book Surface Area Denial & ASW suit aren't mutually exclusive. Then again AFAIK they still has a haul mounted sonar. And there is the ASW rockets. How do they use them if they don't have any sonar? Really Puzzling.


I don't see any ASW rocket launchers mounted on the BN C13 corvettes

F112





A random 056.





The regular 056 has only bow sonar (056A also towed array/vds) and no under-keel sonar





For example the Soviet era Grisha II corvette had an underkeel sonar






And Petya class before it. Likewise Koni class and Parchim class.






Doubtfull there is a hull/keel mounted sonar here.



BDforever said:


> bro check this at 5:40 min, i am not sure what is it.


Those are decoy/chaff/flare launchers. They are situated on the flanks, next to the stack, just in front of where the 30mm cannon are. You can just make them out in the pick below. Note the stairs going down from the 30mm cannon, those tubes are right next to those stairs.






Right in front of the red box with the white F on it, next to the stack.





Your original video at 5:40 shows the stairs and the red box with the F on it next to the tubes

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## BDforever

Penguin said:


> Those are decoy/chaff/flare launchers. They are situated on the flanks, next to the stack, just in front of where the 30mm cannon are. You can just make them out in the pick below. Note the stairs going down from the 30mm cannon, those tubes are right next to those stairs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right in front of the red box with the white F on it, next to the stack.

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## Penguin

Aung Zaya said:


> C-803 isn't for export so far and only used for PLA. that's C-802 or little chance of C-802A.
> according to SIPRI database, BD procuring for type 056 was C-802 AshM. not C-803. that's why may be bro penguin take them as C-802.


A prospective "C-803" was erroneously promulgated as the export version of the YJ-83 by enthusiasts in the late-1990s. As yet, no such missile exists.

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## Nilgiri

gslv mk3 said:


> I ask @Nilgiri to throw light on this issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually which plan was announced which says 4,000 tonne frigate ?



Lol what's the point. They are in for a pretty nasty shock I'll say that. There are some nice early signs already I was only expecting to start from after 2020. Can watch the rest of this year and the next to see what I mean.

They think pure loan-driven raw capacity increase will get them to X level down the road....with absolutely no idea what it takes to actually diversify production in an economy to shore it up organically. It all suits their politicians and bureaucrats just fine too (single source industry always best for dynasty preservation)....in return they can produce a few BBS numbers here and there for "health" and whatever else can be manipulated easily. In the end all sides lie to each other and will be left with squat in the end....Harvard study hinting at this big time, WEF already hinted at it before....but these dummies wont even believe IMF and World Bank when they come around. Another 1971 level moment needs to arrive for these deluded POS's to realise what was going on in reality. They have absolutely no idea what the limits of GCF driven growth is (when that GCF is not diverse neither private credit driven enough)

The inconvenient truth of BD lies in the high quality foreign investment into broad based economic sectors. Its close to 0 for a very long time, even worse BD unable to invest outside its borders to gain access to any sunrise sector either. Their banking and liquidity going to fail them big time in the long run, because they are run so badly and there is 0 reform and renewal taking place. This is why you will see threads about Walton accomplishing this and that in just 2 years time, but when the 2 years comes, suddenly its all further projections and diversions, instead of the cold hard numbers to compare reality. This will only get worse with time as BD gets further under the grip of just one political party which then has little motivation to genuinely reform anything and has hosts of political allied people to give bureaucratic seats for x y z reason other than merit.

I am completely leaving state of BD human capital out of it too....purely what can be done with what they have/inherited being terribad....because of the same BD attitude we see among members here amplifying and refining among their elite, bureaucrats and overall govt.

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## BDforever

Nilgiri said:


> Lol what's the point. They are in for a pretty nasty shock I'll say that. There are some nice early signs already I was only expecting to start from after 2020. Can watch the rest of this year and the next to see what I mean.
> 
> They think pure loan-driven raw capacity increase will get them to X level down the road....with absolutely no idea what it takes to actually diversify production in an economy to shore it up organically. It all suits their politicians and bureaucrats just fine too (single source industry always best for dynasty preservation)....in return they can produce a few BBS numbers here and there for "health" and whatever else can be manipulated easily. In the end all sides lie to each other and will be left with squat in the end....Harvard study hinting at this big time, WEF already hinted at it before....but these dummies wont even believe IMF and World Bank when they come around. Another 1971 level moment needs to arrive for these deluded POS's to realise what was going on in reality. They have absolutely no idea what the limits of GCF driven growth is (when that GCF is not diverse neither private credit driven enough)
> 
> The inconvenient truth of BD lies in the high quality foreign investment into broad based economic sectors. Its close to 0 for a very long time, even worse BD unable to invest outside its borders to gain access to any sunrise sector either. Their banking and liquidity going to fail them big time in the long run, because they are run so badly and there is 0 reform and renewal taking place. This is why you will see threads about Walton accomplishing this and that in just 2 years time, but when the 2 years comes, suddenly its all further projections and diversions, instead of the cold hard numbers to compare reality. This will only get worse with time as BD gets further under the grip of just one political party which then has little motivation to genuinely reform anything and has hosts of political allied people to give bureaucratic seats for x y z reason other than merit.
> 
> I am completely leaving state of BD human capital out of it too....purely what can be done with what they have/inherited being terribad....because of the same BD attitude we see among members here amplifying and refining among their elite, bureaucrats and overall govt.


such big post! !! such wow! ! !

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## Bilal9

BDforever said:


> such big post! !! such wow! ! !





He is just pissed we don't hire some expert from Madras to improve our human development goals.

Well - ain't happening.

Because in most Indian states they have accepted it as fact that their poor will never improve, so they don't even try....

For all his B*llsh*t theorizing and spewing model economic policies, have you ever seen a BRAC or Grameen Foundation in India? Micro-credit? I am not surprised....they don't give a hoot about improving the health or education level of their population. It's all theory and no Goddamn action, yeh hai mera India.....

Bangladesh is building 100 SEZ's of five hundred plus acres. Mirsharai will be 10,000 acres. In fact we are even giving one to Indians near Mongla too - which will probably use our GSP facilities by re-assembling their goods.

In three Southern states combined (TN, Karantaka and Andhra), their SEZ's barely exceed 100 and they are mostly IT/backoffice related except automotive.

So what happens when Bangladesh catches next IT wave? In fact things are ramping up very nicely in that area....

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## Bilal9



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## Avicenna

Bangladesh has problems. But guess what, so do the other nations that comprise South Asia.

What bothers me is the disrespect shown to Bengalis and the insinuation that Bengalis are somehow inferior in one respect or another. Whether said in jest or not. 

From my observation, Bengalis have a tendency to be very intelligent, mature, resourceful, artistic and incredibly innovative individuals. What is needed however, is education to cultivate these tendencies amongst the people.

With increased education, improved healthcare, better infrastructure development, a responsible foreign policy, and most importantly GOOD GOVERNANCE, I am confident about the future of Bangladesh.

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## gslv mk3

Bilal9 said:


> He is just pissed we don't hire some expert from Madras to improve our human development goals. Well - ain't happening. Because



It's the 'goals'. It was always about 'goals'. @Nilgiri 



Bilal9 said:


> Because in most Indian states they have accepted it as fact that their poor will never improve, so they don't even try....



Sure, we don't even try. That's why our HDI is already higher & is improving at a much faster rate than Bangladesh.



Bilal9 said:


> hey don't give a hoot about improving the health or education level of their population. It's all theory and no Goddamn action, yeh hai mera India



More lies from a pathological liar...








> Bangladesh is building 100 SEZ's of five hundred plus acres. Mirsharai will be 10,000 acres.



Meh...more '2030 plans'. Tag us when you have actually completed that. BTW we are building large industrial corridors here in India.

This report by at Center for International Development at Harvard university is enough to give any sensible Bangladeshi a reality check, but you definitely aren't one.

_The projections divide global countries into three basic categories: *those countries with too few productive capabilities to easily diversify into related products, including Bangladesh*, Ecuador, and Guinea; those countries which have enough capabilities that make diversification and growth easier, which include India, Indonesia, and Turkey;_



> In three Southern states combined (TN, Karantaka and Andhra), their SEZ's barely exceed 100 and they are mostly IT/backoffice related except automotive.



'Except automotive'....  as if automotive is a small industry like the great Bangladeshi shipbuilding industry. Or 15,000 motorcycles per year 'walton' for that matter. 

First build a SEZ comparable in operations to Sri City in Andhra Pradesh, then talk.



Bilal9 said:


> So what happens when Bangladesh catches next IT wave?



Nothing, given your piss poor quality of education & labour.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> First build a SEZ comparable in operations to Sri City in Andhra Pradesh, then talk.



MEZ has a land area 30,000 acre out of which 10,000 acre getting developed. One BD company bought 500 acres of land yesterday for their factory. This is 1 out of 100 SEZ being developed.

Sri city got 2700 acre of SEZ land.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> MEZ has a land area 30,000 acre out of which 10,000 acre getting developed. One BD company bought 500 acres of land yesterday for their factory. This is 1 out of 100 SEZ being developed.
> 
> Sri city got 2700 acre of SEZ land.



Yawn...come back when you have actually started operations that are comparable to it. At present, it seems that Sri City produces more automobiles than your entire country....

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Yawn...come back when you have actually started operations that are comparable to it. At present, it seems that Sri City produces more automobiles than your entire country....


Ya right with 1.5 billion dollar total investment Sri City is hell of a icon in South Asia. 
There are already 10 billion dollar investment proposal (25 billion in pipeline) with down payment for MEZ. It is not in the paper its already a done deal.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Ya right with 1.5 billion dollar total investment Sri City is hell of a icon in South Asia.
> There are already 10 billion dollar investment proposal (25 billion in pipeline) with down payment for MEZ. It is not in the paper its already a done deal.



Yawn...Don't get me started on '2030 plans'. First establish an automotive industry which produces more automobiles than Isuzu at Sri City...BTW, Isuzu alone invested $500 million into the present facility there. 

The total investment at a 3000 acre (now expanded to 7500 acres) Sri City at present is $4.6 billion. 

And please do tag me when your 'MEZ' starts operations.

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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> such big post! !! such wow! ! !



I read only two line of his post and if i find anything to reply out of it then i reply unless ignore. Most of the time you can find his dumb analogy within 2 lines.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> I read only two line of his post and if i find anything to reply out of it then i reply unless ignore. Most of the time you can find his dumb analogy within 2 lines.



Why, is it too hard for a guy who claims that 'Bangladesh can build a nuclear bomb in 5 years' ?

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## Avicenna

Who claimed that?


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## gslv mk3

Avicenna said:


> Who claimed that?



@TopCat


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## Avicenna

I'm curious. Wheres the quote?


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## gslv mk3

Avicenna said:


> I'm curious. Wheres the quote?



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-will-be-the-nuclear-country.224749/page-2#post-3703025


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## Avicenna

Yea. Lotta stupidity in that thread. Including the original article. However, the author WAS HOT!


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Why, is it too hard for a guy who claims that 'Bangladesh can build a nuclear bomb in 5 years' ?


With adequate funding and no IAEA nagging any country can build a bomb in less than 5 years or even less.
not everybody is as inept as Indians. Not sure about the Indian, but all nuclear states did that within that timeframe.


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## Avicenna

I don't think so buddy.


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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> I don't think so buddy.


Does not matter what you think.


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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> With adequate funding and no IAEA nagging any country can build a bomb in less than 5 years or even less.
> not everybody is as inept as Indians. Not sure about the Indian, but all nuclear states did that within that timeframe.



@Avicenna Now you know why this forum is a joke.


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## Avicenna

LOL. Yea your right. But reality matters. And you have no concept of that apparently.


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> @Avicenna Now you know why this forum is a joke.



ya like Kaveri engine. 40 years of R&D yet could not get to the bottom of it 
Perpetual swimming.



Avicenna said:


> LOL. Yea your right. But reality matters. And you have no concept of that apparently.


As if you work for US nuclear arsenal program.

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## Avicenna

Come on man. Stop embarassing yourself and let it go.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Come on man. Stop embarassing yourself and let it go.


Come back with counter analogy instead of talking from your gutts. Nuclear bomb is a 75 years old technology. No biggies dude, even the bomb looks scary.


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## Avicenna

Bhai. Be realistic please. Think about what you are saying. Firstly, you start by prefacing it by IF there is funding. IF not IAEA. Thirdly, I dont think Bangladesh has the technical capacity or knowledge to design and build a nuclear weapon in 5 years. We dont even have a reactor.

So please man, stop displaying such utter disconnection from reality.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> ya like Kaveri engine. 40 years of R&D yet could not get to the bottom of it



Ahem, let me see. How many countries have developed a low bypass turbofan for military application or even a prototype of the same ?

Does the list include Bangladesh, a country which can't even develop a two stroke moped engine ?


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## Avicenna

gslv mk3 said:


> Ahem, let me see. How many countries have developed a low bypass turbofan or even a prototype of the same ?
> 
> Does the list include Bangladesh, a country which can't even develop a two stroke moped engine ?



Yea. Your trolling doesnt help matter either.


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## gslv mk3

Avicenna said:


> Yea. Your trolling doesnt help matter either.



There is no trolling in this. You're compatriots are beyond stupid & there is nothing I can do about that.

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## TopCat

Avicenna said:


> Bhai. Be realistic please. Think about what you are saying. Firstly, you start by prefacing it by IF there is funding. IF not IAEA. Thirdly, I dont think Bangladesh has the technical capacity or knowledge to design and build a nuclear weapon in 5 years. We dont even have a reactor.
> 
> So please man, stop displaying such utter disconnection from reality.



I never said Bangladesh. Thats what is made up by @gslv mk3 . You will not find anywhere I mentioned Bangladesh. 
Bangladesh has no such program, neither have reactor nor centrifuge for enrichment. If we had this capability then there should not be any problem in coverting them to nuclear program.


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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Thats what is made up by @gslv mk3 . You will not find anywhere I mentioned Bangladesh.



What ? You clearly said 'a bomb can be made in 5 years' in that thread.


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Ahem, let me see. How many countries have developed a low bypass turbofan for military application or even a prototype of the same ?
> 
> Does the list include Bangladesh, a country which can't even develop a two stroke moped engine ?


How many country run a program for 40 years with funding?


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## Avicenna

gslv mk3 said:


> There is no trolling in this. You're compatriots are beyond stupid & there is nothing I can do about that.



Some are. But that doesn't justify the blanket statements you and YOUR compatriots make regarding Bangladesh or Bengalis.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> What ? You clearly said 'a bomb can be made in 5 years' in that thread.


I say it here too.


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## Avicenna

You just contradicted yourself.

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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> How many country run a program for 40 years with funding?



Many, including your new sugar- daddy China.


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## Avicenna

Anyways, you two carry on. Its time for bed.


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## gslv mk3

Avicenna said:


> You just contradicted yourself.



Ha...!!


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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> Many, including your new sugar- daddy China.


They have successful program. Even Russia, USA run this kind of program for constant improvement


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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> They have successful program.



 really ? Count the number of years involved here...

_*The WS-10 was derived from the Woshan WS-6 turbofan, which was abandoned at the start of the 1980s. The WS-10 project was reportedly started by Deng Xiaoping in 1986 to produce an engine comparable to the AL-31*. The work was given to the Shenyang Aeroengine Research Institute (606 Institute) of Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC).The WS-10 may have been based on the core of the CFM-56II (itself based on the General Electric F101); China purchased two CFM-56IIs in the 1980s. After being unable to purchase source code from Salyut, China spent nearly 20 years developing its own source code for the WS-10 engine. 

The WS-10A, targeted for 130 kilonewtons (29,000 lbf) of thrust,was already in development in 2002. An early version was flown on an J-8II in 2002. In 2004, Russian sources familiar with project reported problems meeting the thrust target; in 2005, they reported problems reducing the weight of the primary and secondary compressors, in addition to problems meeting thrust requirements. Engine testing on the J-11 had already started by 2004, and testing using one engine on the J-11 may have occurred as early as 2002.

A full-scale WS-10A engine was first seen at the 2008 China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition.

In 2009, Western media reported that the WS-10A approached the performance of the Saturn AL-31, but took much longer than the AL-31 to develop thrust. Furthermore, reportedly the engine only generated 110–125 kilonewtons (25,000–28,000 lbf) of thrust.In April 2009, Lin Zuoming, head of AVIC, reported that the engine's quality was unsatisfactory. In 2010, it was reported that reliability was also poor; the WS-10A lasted only 30 hours, while the AL-31 needed refurbishing after 400 hours. The quality problems encountered with the WS-10A reflected the state of the Chinese aerospace industry; AVIC initiated a general effort to improve quality control throughout its production chain in 2011.

The WS-10A reportedly matured enough after 2009 to power the J-11B Block 02 aircraft. A WS-10A-powered J-10B was seen in July 2011, but the engine did not power the initial J-10B production batch, possibly because of production or performance issues.

*Unconfirmed reports claimed the first flight of the J-11D was powered by a new WS-10 variant; the variant reportedly had improved reliability, with a thrust of more than 13t, but less than that of the AL-31F-M1. The flight was revealed in early May 2015*_


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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> BD did not buy the Type-59 but they were converted to Type-59G from the stocks that BD had.
> 
> Type-59G tank is comparable to the Type-96 that is widely used in the Chinese army.


Comparable. Not even close to performance characteristics.


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## Aung Zaya

Mohammed Khaled said:


> I'm really pissed about the 300 more type 59 tank purchase. How could bd do such a fuckup.


probably upgraded kits for Type 59 which was already in BD inventory. upgrading is good choice but u guys why dont choose brand new Type 96 or more mbt 2000. cos upgraded cost will almost close to price of new tanks as all components (engine , CMS , weaponary ) need to replace except chassic. meanwhile the brand new T-90MS is just around $4m.


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## Michael Corleone

Aung Zaya said:


> probably upgraded kits for Type 59 which was already in BD inventory. upgrading is good choice but u guys why dont choose brand new Type 96 or more mbt 2000. cos upgraded cost will almost close to price of new tanks as all components (engine , CMS , weaponary ) need to replace except chassic. meanwhile the brand new T-90MS is just around $4m.


The problem is tank development in recent years have gained pace again and it's pretty bad time to buy a tank atm and not have it obsolete in 10 years time. 
Ex. Iraq

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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Comparable. Not even close to performance characteristics.



Really?

Let us see:

Type-59G:

Engine:730H.P. Diesel engine
Armour:Chinese 3rd generation ERA on front, turret and side skirts. Modular Composite armour on turret front. Cage armour on back of turret to protect from RPG hits
Gun: 125mm main gun with new turret (Type 96 turret)
Weight:40 tonnes

Type-96A


Engine: 780H.P. Diesel engine
Armour:Modular applique armor and ERA plates on hull front
Gun:125 mm smoothbore gun
Weight: 43 tonnes

So can you advise which tank is superior to the other here as I see little difference.
The Type-59G is able to fight the Type-96A as an equal. Type-99 is more advanced though.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Really?
> 
> Let us see:
> 
> Type-59G:
> 
> Engine:730H.P. Diesel engine
> Armour:Chinese 3rd generation ERA on front, turret and side skirts. Modular Composite armour on turret front. Cage armour on back of turret to protect from RPG hits
> Gun: 125mm main gun with new turret (Type 96 turret)
> Weight:40 tonnes
> 
> Type-96A
> 
> 
> Engine: 780H.P. Diesel engine
> Armour:Modular applique armor and ERA plates on hull front
> Gun:125 mm smoothbore gun
> Weight: 43 tonnes
> 
> So can you advise whichg tank is superior to the other here as I see little difference.
> The Type-59G is able to fight the Type-96A as an equal. Type-99 is more advanced though.


Just weight and engine power don't tell all the difference. 
Installing a 12.5 cm gun with no room for autoloader let alone a gun rammer drastically reduces reload speed. Fewer shells carried.... ERA block compaable to kontakt 4 which has no chance against any anti tank missiles... Doesn't have electronic counter measures or comparable fire control... It's just an old relic that cost less for us to upgrade and keep in service. You think north Korean upgraded MBT which are basically t-62A with manpads has any chance against t-90 or Chinese modern tanks or korean, German, American tanks? Certainly not. 
I would have given a more detailed comparison on these tanks but I just don't have the time to justify it. Sorry for that.

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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> Just weight and engine power don't tell all the difference.
> Installing a 12.5 cm gun with no room for autoloader let alone a gun rammer drastically reduces reload speed. Fewer shells carried.... ERA block compaable to kontakt 4 which has no chance against any anti tank missiles... Doesn't have electronic counter measures or comparable fire control... It's just an old relic that cost less for us to upgrade and keep in service. You think north Korean upgraded MBT which are basically t-62A with manpads has any chance against t-90 or Chinese modern tanks or korean, German, American tanks? Certainly not.
> I would have given a more detailed comparison on these tanks but I just don't have the time to justify it. Sorry for that.



OK. You seem to have quite a bit of knowedge about tanks and so I may be wrong.

Yes, the Type-96 would have some advantage over the Type-59G but is the difference that great that Type-59G would get slaughtered by Type-96? I am not sure.

btw - Type-96 is not comparable to the best tanks like Leopard, Challenger 2, M1-Abrams and the Chinese Type-99, so I would not dismiss the Type-59G out of hand against Type-96.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> OK. You seem to have quite a bit of knowedge about tanks and so I may be wrong.
> 
> Yes, the Type-96 would have some advantage over the Type-59G but is the difference that great that Type-59G would get slaughtered by Type-96? I am not sure.
> 
> btw - Type-96 is not comparable to the best tanks like Leopard, Challenger 2, M1-Abrams and the Chinese Type-99, so I would not dismiss the Type-59G out of hand against Type-96.


The type 99 is just too expensive for China to field in large numbers and hence type 96 supplements it with numbers. In tank warfare there should be good balance between number and superiority. 

I wouldn't dismiss or say to replace them altogether but if you current inventory of tanks is about 500 tanks. At least 200 modern tanks like t-90 or the south korean tank like k-1


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> The type 99 is just too expensive for China to field in large numbers and hence type 96 supplements it with numbers. In tank warfare there should be good balance between number and superiority.
> 
> I wouldn't dismiss or say to replace them altogether but if you current inventory of tanks is about 500 tanks. At least 200 modern tanks like t-90 or the south korean tank like k-1



Type-59G was a cheap way for BD army to have enough tanks that had some chance to going up against the latest Indian tanks.

BD army is looking for around 2 regiments(100-120) of main battle tanks. It seems like the 44 MBT-2000s were a big disappointment and so a newer model like MBT-3000/VT-4 may be brought instead. Thailand has been buying them but they do come at a cost of around 6 million US dollars per tank.

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## aakash_2410

UKBengali said:


> Type-59G was a cheap way for BD army to have enough tanks that had some chance to going up against the latest _*Indian tanks.*_
> 
> BD army is looking for around 2 regiments(100-120) of main battle tanks. It seems like the 44 MBT-2000s were a big disappointment and so a newer model like MBT-3000/VT-4 may be brought instead. Thailand has been buying them but they do come at a cost of around 6 million US dollars per tank.



1) Does Bangladesh consider India it's primary military threat?

2) Is Soviet era first generation T-54A (Chinese version Type-50G) comparable to third generation T-90s?

3) If Bangladesh does consider India it's primary military threat, how is Bangladesh's 300 odd tanks (44 - MBT2000s, 50 - Type 69, 180 - Type 59G) planning to dominate India's 4500 odd newer tanks (350+ Arjun MBT, 1650 - T-90Ms, 2410 - T-72s)?


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## Avicenna

I will only answer your first post as i know nothing about tanks.

I don't think Bangaldesh sees any nation as an enemy. I think its only trying to strengthen its military for self defence from potential threats. By geography, of course, that means India and Myanmar.

I think the most likely scenario may be some sort of border or sea stand off with Myanmar. But with India, its too one sided of course.

Ultimately, the best weapon for Bangladesh is good diplomacy.

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## BDforever

aakash_2410 said:


> 2) Is Soviet era first generation T-54A (Chinese version Type-50G) comparable to third generation T-90s?
> 
> 3) If Bangladesh does consider India it's primary military threat, how is Bangladesh's 300 odd tanks (44 - MBT2000s, 50 - Type 69, 180 - Type 59G) planning to dominate India's 4500 odd newer tanks (350+ Arjun MBT, 1650 - T-90Ms, 2410 - T-72s)?


where did you get the type and number figures of Bangladeshi tanks ?

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## Jayhawk

Avicenna said:


> I will only answer your first post as i know nothing about tanks.
> 
> I don't think Bangaldesh sees any nation as an enemy. I think its only trying to strengthen its military for self defence from potential threats. By geography, of course, that means India and Myanmar.
> 
> I think the most likely scenario may be some sort of border or sea stand off with Myanmar. But with India, its too one sided of course.
> 
> Ultimately, the best weapon for Bangladesh is good diplomacy.




What he said...

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## damiendehorn

aakash_2410 said:


> 1) Does Bangladesh consider India it's primary military threat?
> 
> 2) Is Soviet era first generation T-54A (Chinese version Type-50G) comparable to third generation T-90s?
> 
> 3) If Bangladesh does consider India it's primary military threat, how is Bangladesh's 300 odd tanks (44 - MBT2000s, 50 - Type 69, 180 - Type 59G) planning to dominate India's 4500 odd newer tanks (350+ Arjun MBT, 1650 - T-90Ms, 2410 - T-72s)?



1) The Bangladesh military has to consider all potential threats...1. india 2. myanmar 3. mars

2) No where near comparable

3) Bangladesh does what all nations do, build a credible defence based on what *its economy can afford*.

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## Avicenna

Those martians are savages I've heard.

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## Nilgiri

Avicenna said:


> Those martians are savages I've heard.



Its a good thing they succumb to our microbes quite easily though.

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## Michael Corleone

UKBengali said:


> Type-59G was a cheap way for BD army to have enough tanks that had some chance to going up against the latest Indian tanks.
> 
> BD army is looking for around 2 regiments(100-120) of main battle tanks. It seems like the 44 MBT-2000s were a big disappointment and so a newer model like MBT-3000/VT-4 may be brought instead. Thailand has been buying them but they do come at a cost of around 6 million US dollars per tank.


MBT 3000 will be another big disappointment.


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## UKBengali

Mohammed Khaled said:


> MBT 3000 will be another big disappointment.



Can you explain why?


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## Penguin

UKBengali said:


> Can you explain why?


Pls not in THIS thread!

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## BanglarBagh

So we are basically at a discussion of 'TANK' now while the the thread is about frigates!!! why does every thread in BD section gets way off topic every single time!!!!!!!!!!!

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## Homo Sapiens

BDforever said:


> where did you get the type and number figures of Bangladeshi tanks ?


Clearly he got those number from wikipedia page
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Bangladesh_Army
This page has subjected to severe vandalization. Look here, our entire 1000+ BTR-80 APC are missing from the list.I remember just a few months ago it was there.There is no mention about our upcoming 330 BRT-82A either.Type-69ll is the backbone of our armored group.But it's number is showing just 50 instead of 250.No mention about non upgraded Type-59 tank, only showing 180 upgraded Type-59G tank.No other equipment have number/count mentioned.I don't know, who edit this page or in general Bangladesh army page? If you look for sometimes, Bangladesh pages got edit frequently with malicious intention and dishonesty in mind.My question is, why no Bangladesh wikipedia moderator is taking any responsibility to maintain these vital wikipedia page?


aakash_2410 said:


> 1) Does Bangladesh consider India it's primary military threat?
> 
> 2) Is Soviet era first generation T-54A (Chinese version Type-50G) comparable to third generation T-90s?
> 
> 3) If Bangladesh does consider India it's primary military threat, how is Bangladesh's 300 odd tanks (44 - MBT2000s, 50 - Type 69, 180 - Type 59G) planning to dominate India's 4500 odd newer tanks (350+ Arjun MBT, 1650 - T-90Ms, 2410 - T-72s)?


1.India is not a threat at present.But it can't be ruled out for future.And we are unwilling to depend on Indian goodwill to maintain our national security.Bangladesh army certainly calculate regional dimension while assessing military need just like any other military in the world.

2.Upgraded version of Type59 which is Type59G in Bangladesh and Al-Zarrar in Pakistan is in many ways comparable to T-90 tank.

3.Bangladesh have around 600 tanks.Don't let the vandalized wikipedia page to misled you.
Type number
MBT-2000 = 44
Tupe69ll = 250 (backbone of the armor in BD Army.)
Type59/Type59G = 300+(180 are upgraded to Type59G, rest will follow)
Some light Type62 tanks.
http://www.defencebd.com/p/bangladesh-army-equipment.html

But these number is not enough.We need at least 1200 tank to defend properly. Twice the current amount. Govt. is in the process to procure 2 regiment tank shortly.

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## Species

18:00-20:00

Preparations for indigenous frigate development program reiterated by Commodore Mozammel Haque.

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## The Ronin

Italy might be possibly trying to sell the heavily armed version of this frigate to the Bangladesh Navy for around $325 million per unit - this warship has some good innovations.

The Italian Navy has released fresh details about its seven new, multifunctional ships as it seeks to wrap up a system design review (SDR) of the innovative vessels by the end of June.

As planners mull the use of a Google Glass-type kit for navigators on the bridge, they have also opted for a so-called wave piercing bow, which is expected to add almost a knot in speed.

With industry contracts signed last year thanks to a €5.4 billion (US $6.1 billion) funding package, the Navy now hopes it is on course to have its seven, 4,500-ton, 133-meter-long vessels delivered between 2021 and 2026.

Conceived with a hefty input from the Navy’s own design office, the vessels will be given dual role capabilities to help assist in civilian disaster operations or the interception of migrants in the Mediterranean, as well as fight wars.

The SDR is set to be completed by the end of this month — with some fine tuning on genset options to be made — and a critical design review is planned for February, an Italian defense source said.

Before then, steel cutting on the first ship by state-controlled shipbuilding yard Fincantieri is expected in the autumn.

In the meantime, the Navy teamed with Italian defense magazine Rivista Italiana Difesa this month to produce a special issue unveiling details of the design of the ships, which are known by their Italian acronym PPA, starting with an unusual looking sharp protrusion out from the bow near the water level.

“This simply extends the length of the vessel at the waterline, improving wave resistance without increasing the dimensions of the ship,” the source said. “We think this technique is a first for a naval ship.”

The technique was developed by Fincantieri and first used on a Swedish ferry the firm built, according to Rivista Italiana Difesa.

Fincantieri will build two PPA vessels in “Light” configuration, three in “Light Plus” configuration and two in “Full” configuration, with prices including ten years of logistic support ranging from about €430 million for the Light versions to €530 million for the Full versions.

All vessels will feature Leonardo-Finmeccanica’s 127mm and 76mm naval guns as well as 25mm and 12.7mm guns. To house the rear-facing 76mm guns on top of a hangar, the Italian group has developed a lighter version of its standard model, known as the Sovraponte.

The Light Plus and Full versions will offer Aster 15 and 30 missiles.

The Light vessels will offer an X-band AESA radar, which uses four flat panels, giving a 360-degree view housed above the bridge. The Light Plus vessels will use a C-band radar, while the Full version will offer both C- and X-band radars, requiring eight panels to produce a single integrated radar image.

Much has been made of the unusual bridge on the PPA vessels, which was designed with help from naval aviators to resemble an aircraft’s cockpit. On the PPA bridge, two navigators will sit in a protruding section resembling a cockpit, doing the work that eight navigators do on Italy’s FREMM frigates, the source said.

Studies are underway to replicate the heads-up display of an aircraft in which data can be projected onto the windows of the bridge for the two navigators, indicating for example the depth of the water they can see through the windows.

Another plan is to develop Google Glass-type glasses linked to external cameras, which would allow navigators to have a 360-degree view of the outside of the ship.

“This type of study will likely continue beyond the critical design review next year,” the source said.

Much of the lobbying to secure the funding for the PPA vessels was undertaken by Navy Adm. Giuseppe De Giorgi, earning him kudos in the Navy but also attention from the media when he was placed under investigation earlier this year for corruption.

Magistrates suspected he had deliberately handed a contract to an entrepreneur who is the partner of the head of Italy’s industry ministry, who authorized the €5.4 billion in funds.

As news of the investigation broke, an anonymous dossier was sent to prosecutors accusing the admiral of spending funds on excessive entertaining.

De Gregori denied he had been seeking to win favors at the ministry and gave a blistering speech on June 22 in which he blasted his critics at a ceremony where he handed over control of the Navy to the service’s new chief, Vice Adm. Walter Girardelli.

“Our navigation has not always been calm — you know what I am talking about,” he said, describing his years in office. The admiral then claimed “dark forces” had sent the dossier “in a bid to shape the future of the Navy.”

*****

According to Finmeccanica website

The consortium (RTI) was established according to the cooperation agreement in the field of naval vessels construction signed in October 2014 between Fincantieri and Finmeccanica. Pursuant to the agreement, Fincantieri acts as a sole interface to the client, while enhancing Finmeccanica’s products range in the naval field. According to the agreement Finmeccanica is the design authority of the whole combat system.

In addition to building the vessels at its shipyards, Fincantieri will provide support over the lifecycle of the vessels in the first ten years, through the supply of logistic services (training courses, spare parts, technical documentation) during the construction of the vessels and of ISS or In Service Support (maintenance services), carried out during post-delivery operations, as well as components and naval machinery produced by the Marine Systems and Components Unit, such as shaft lines, wheelhouse, maneuvering propellers, fin stabilizers and other handling systems, the automation system and a part of the special supplies for PPAs delivered by the subsidiary Seastema S.p.A.

Finmeccanica will act as prime contractor for the combat systems through Selex ES that will develop and provide the new multi-functional radars (4 fixed arrays) dual-band X/C, last generation integrated communication systems, new electro-optical sensors, new fire control systems and innovative Open Architecture Combat Management System. Selex ES will also have the responsibility for all subsystems – included those newly developed by OTO Melara (76mm gun above deck), WASS (sonar array), MBDA (anti-ballistic missile system) and Elettronica (electronic warfare system) – and for the first 10-year logistic support (integrated and “in service” logistic support).

In addition, Selex ES and Fincantieri will develop together the innovative “Cockpit” system. This system will, for the first time ever, allow for the integrated management of sailing and combat system operations, using augmented reality to allow both functions to be effectively managed with fewer operators.
Vessel’s characteristics

PPA – Multipurpose Offshore Patrol Ship

The multipurpose offshore patrol ship is a highly flexible ship with capacity to serve multiple functions ranging from patrol with sea rescue capacity to Civil Protection operations, and in its most highly equipped version, first line fighting vessel. There will be indeed different configurations of combat system: starting from a “soft” version for the patrol task, integrated for self-defence ability, to a “full” one, equipped for a complete defence ability. The vessel is also capable of operating high-speed vessels such as RHIB (Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat) up to 11 meters long through lateral cranes or a hauling ramp located at the far stern.

132.5 meters long 
Speed more than 33 knots according to vessel configuration and operational conditions 
171 persons of the crew 
Equipped with a combined diesel and gas turbine plant (CODAG)
Capacity to supply drinking water to land 
Capacity to provide electricity to land with 2000 kw of power 
2 modular zones at the stern and at the center of the ship that allow the embarking of various types of containerized operating/logistic/residential/healthcare modules (in particular, the stern area may receive and handle within a covered area up to 5 modules in ISO 20” containers, while the central zone may receive and handle up to 8 ISO 20” containers)

The PPAs will be built at the Integrated Shipyard of Riva Trigoso and Muggiano, with delivery expected, for the first vessel of the class, in 2021, while the following deliveries of the vessels will take place in 2022, 2023, 2024 (two units), 2025 and 2026.
















Source: Syed Amar Khan, BD Military.

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## UKBengali

Well, BD will only want to partner with Italy to help design the hull. There is no way they will import the whole ship.

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## TopCat

How credible is this Syed Amar Khan guy... ? He seems like @Nilgiri version 2.0

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## BDforever

TopCat said:


> How credible is this Syed Amar Khan guy... ? He seems like @Nilgiri version 2.0


lol I saw what Syed Amar Khan did with you in comments along with others.
poor you lol


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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> lol I saw what Syed Amar Khan did with you in comments along with others.
> poor you lol


Well he gets really pissed if somebody challenge his credibility.. The same guy spread the rumor that we are buying from Singapore.. and how Singapore was so great. When i said SG is the 2nd biggest backer for MM after China he got pissed too..


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## BDforever

TopCat said:


> Well he gets really pissed if somebody challenge his credibility.. The same guy spread the rumor that we are buying from Singapore.. and how Singapore was so great. When i said SG is the 2nd biggest backer for MM after China he got pissed too..


what is rumor about Singapore ?

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## Nabil365

TopCat said:


> Well he gets really pissed if somebody challenge his credibility.. The same guy spread the rumor that we are buying from Singapore.. and how Singapore was so great. When i said SG is the 2nd biggest backer for MM after China he got pissed too..


Don't waste your time with him.
Another wannabe.
He probably just found that your comments will divert his followers.
He clearly does not know shit.
Just take a look at the ucav posts.


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## TopCat

BDforever said:


> what is rumor about Singapore ?


Frigates from SG


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## BDforever

TopCat said:


> Frigates from SG


lol he just shown Singaporean one can be an option, like we give our opinion about purchase options. He did not claim BN is thinking about it.
And Many times I have seen you,a person with negative attitude like good thing can't be happening. Change it plz

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## The Ronin




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## The Ronin

TopCat said:


> The same guy spread the rumor that we are buying from Singapore..



All of these are being offered including that Vanguard series from Singapore. Where do you find the "deal" word when it isn't even made yet, heck even the shipyard isn't there yet.

Btw the video shows given in the comment section shows the actual model of Italian offer with pictures mentioned in the post



Nabil365 said:


> Just take a look at the ucav posts.



What about the UCAV post?? he do knows something as many of his news come true and his site is the only source we can find some news about what's going on.



UKBengali said:


> Well, BD will only want to partner with Italy to help design the hull. There is no way they will import the whole ship.



Well it isn't decided yet who will be the partner but as long as it's European i am happy.

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## EastBengalPro

TopCat said:


> Well he gets really pissed if somebody challenge his credibility.. The same guy spread the rumor that we are buying from Singapore.. and how Singapore was so great. When i said SG is the 2nd biggest backer for MM after China he got pissed too..



Its okay Bhai. We all are Bangladeshis and we all have patriotism. I agree not all of his info will be right. But still I want to thank that guy to set up a platform like BDMilitary. His website and effort making people more interested in military issues.

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## The Ronin

Bangladesh Navy should buy the T.o.T for DW-3000F frigate as a natural follow on from DW-2000. Built 2 in Korea and the rest six in Bangladesh with full technology transfer.

Liable to drive up water
3,700 ton
dimension
123 x 14.4 x 8 (m). 
Persistence sea
Sea State 8 (Survivability)
maximum speed
30 Knots
operating distance
4,000 NM @ 18 Knots
drive system
2 x Diesels + 1 x GE, Controllable Pitch Propeller.
electrical system
4 x Ship Service Power Generation (Each of 830 kW Rated output).
caravel
1 x RHIB
The system ships >
Stealth Technology 
– RCS (Radar Cross Section) Reduction.
– IR (Infra Red Reduction). 
– URN (Underwater Radiated Noise) Reduction. 
– Degaussing
– NBC Protection System
helicopter 
1 x 10 Ton Helo (S-70B Sea hawk or MH-60S Knight hawk) with Hangar. 
Troops
136 Mr.
The battle system director 
15 x MFC (Multi Function Consoles).
weapon system
8 x SSM Otomat Mk II Block IV
32 x Umkhonto VLS SAM
1 x 76/62 Stealth Shield, Multi feeding system.
(Max range 40- 45 km with smart ammunition).
2 x 30 mm Guns (200 RPM) x CIWS (4,500 RPM).
2 x .50 inch (Range; 2 km).
2 x Trainable Triple tube torpedo launchers.
Fire Control Systems 
2 x Radar Fire Control System
2 x Continuous Wave Illuminators
1 x Electro Optical Fire Control
2 x Target Designation Sight
surveillance system 
1 x 3 D Long Range Radar (> 350 Km).
1 x 3 D Medium Range Radar (> 180 Km).
3 x Navigation Radar
1 x Surveillance Camera (TV and thermal imager).
1 x Hull Mounted Sonar
1 x Towed Array Sonar
2 x IFF
1 x Automatic Dependent Surveillance-Broadcast (ADS-B).
Electronic Warfare System
1 x Radar ESM
1 x Communication ESM
6 x Decoy Launchers
Active-off board ECM 
communications
1 x Integrated Communication System
Link RTN, Link G & Link E.
1 x TACAN
1 x SAT Communication

I think this would be the best mix and the frigate would cost around $350 million or so.















I think this is good option for BN cause it has quad pack for per vls for SAM and BN already has experience of operating Korean frigate like BNS BB.
Source- BD Military+.

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## Imran Khan

*Korean Frigate*>>>>*Bangladesh's Indigenous Frigate*


*indigenous become a joke *

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## Hassan Guy

Imran Khan said:


> *Korean Frigate*>>>>*Bangladesh's Indigenous Frigate*
> 
> 
> *indigenous become a joke *


the term has been indianized


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## Imran Khan

Hassan Guy said:


> the term has been indianized


and then full technology transfer

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## Torch_v2.0

And what's so Indigenous about it ??


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## monitor

Torch said:


> And what's so Indigenous about it ??




Our labour ,our paint to some furniture kitchen utility etc going to be indigenous. 



Imran Khan said:


> *Korean Frigate*>>>>*Bangladesh's Indigenous Frigate*
> 
> 
> *indigenous become a joke *




Yes it's confusing same for ,with Russian engine and Chinese radar jf-17 a indigenous or with Israeli radar American engine Tejaz a indigenous fighter .

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## Bilal9

I think we should make this program an opportunity for providing Combat Naval design expertise to our local ship-designers. The design should be our own, combining elements from latest Bergamini class, BelH@rra class etc.

Dependence on complete Korean off-the-shelf design is not a great idea, though well intentioned. Their environment and fight scenario is different from ours and may not be a good fit for ours. At the least, we should change the design extensively to fit our needs.

Ship should be designed/built in Bangladesh from scratch and from the ground up - even if it takes a few months longer. It is practical, fits our long-term vision and is well within realms of possibility. The time when we bought things from foreigners with no questions asked is over. A change in attitude is necessary.

Western Marine does build ships from scratch all the time for example. Engines and arms integration can be sourced from overseas.

Vendors who cannot cater to this should be asked to revise their offer.

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## Bilal9

ENFJ (-A / -T) said:


> Its okay Bhai. We all are Bangladeshis and we all have patriotism. I agree not all of his info will be right. But still I want to thank that guy to set up a platform like BDMilitary. His website and effort making people more interested in military issues.



Exactly - everyone has something to contribute and we should respect that.

Even if the news is a hoax, there is some merit in it because the design is quite advanced IMHO. We can use elements from each vendor's design submission.

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## Tanveer666

what are the chances of Chinese Type 54 or Korean Incheon being selected? Last year i read that these 2 were the primary contenders in indigenous frigate program on BDmillitary.


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## The Ronin

Tanveer666 said:


> what are the chances of Chinese Type 54 or Korean Incheon being selected? Last year i read that these 2 were the primary contenders in indigenous frigate program on BDmillitary.



For price and commonality those two are front-runner. The Type-54 is on top of the list.


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## The Ronin

Indigenous is INDIGENOUS whether its half or full. Even this frigate has American naval gun and CIWS on it, Russian Grigro has Ukrainian engine, Indian ship has Italian naval gun, American fighter has Chinese chip and @monitor vai already gave you perfect slap on your cheek so i don't need to give anymore example. i am not saying this the exact thing we will buy; maybe the a downgrade version or heavily modified one or maybe we will build a completely new design with technical help from others but even if we build the hull and structures by ourselves locally we will have to import weapons, sensors,radars, engines and other things from outside. So that way even our Padma class OPV isn't fully indigenous.



monitor said:


> Our labour ,our paint to some furniture kitchen utility etc going to be indigenous.



and the steel for next 4 which will be built locally or for all 6.



Hassan Guy said:


> the term has been indianized



These old conspiracy joke getting boring. is that the best you can do?? Then you don't have any future as comedian like your mentor @idune . try something new like constructive and informative comment without lame joke. 

And the most important thing i forgot to mention because of these lame comedian is this will be a very good start for
Bangladesh's big warship building and future fully INDIGENOUS warship.

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## KapitaanAli

Indegenous means home grown design with almost all testing and design work and research carried out at home.

Many don't understand what design means and how complex the work is.

Anyway, the right terminology is "Bangladesh's frigate program". Just like "Pakistan's fighter jet program" and "India's Scorpene submarine program".
Congrats to all.


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## The Ronin

Ok, edited the title. Happy now?

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## idune

The Ronin said:


> I
> 
> These old conspiracy joke getting boring. is that the best you can do?? Then you don't have any future as comedian like your mentor @idune . try something new like constructive and informative comment without lame joke.



"constructive" based on pure speculation and hoax that is awami league holy book of policy. SHOW us a single shred of reference that Korean ship is under consideration. You bear responsibility of your tall clam. Otherwise will be another awami speculative liar.

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## Dot

On topic - I think BD Navy would follow what others; specially Malaysia is doing with their frigate program. You choose a proven; possibly Western design, modify as per desired tonnage/sensors/weapons package etc, get provisions for TOT & inhouse designing, build them up locally. Around $3 -$3.5 billion for 6 ships may be expected.

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## Bilal9

@The Eagle bhai can we consolidate all the frigate related threads (including this one) into a single sticky thread (Named 'Bangladesh Indigenous Frigate Program' thread please?

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## Sankpal

monitor said:


> Our labour ,our paint to some furniture kitchen utility etc going to be indigenous.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes it's confusing same for ,with Russian engine and Chinese radar jf-17 indigenous or with Israeli radar American engine Tejaz a indigenous fighter .



Well you missed, jf 17 is designed by Soviet and design purchased by China & develop and testing done by China and finally nut bolt, paint job done by Pakistan.

Hal tejas is designed and developed by India, yes we have imported few parts from other nations. Nothing wrong.

If you design and develop and setup a infrastructure then nothing wrong to import few parts if you are not able to develop on time


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## monitor

Bilal9 said:


> @The Eagle bhai can we consolidate all the frigate related threads (including this one) into a single sticky thread (Named 'Bangladesh Indigenous Frigate Program' thread please?




Yes before decision is final we can discuss here a thread already created by me. 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-navy-indigenous-frigate-development-program.501481/

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## Species

Bilal9 said:


> @The Eagle bhai can we consolidate all the frigate related threads (including this one) into a single sticky thread (Named 'Bangladesh Indigenous Frigate Program' thread please?



There are so many threads already existing on this topic. 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-navy-indigenous-frigate-development-program.501481/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bang...-guided-missile-frigates-indigenously.506853/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/from...-build-6-frigates-under-joint-venture.538989/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/poss...s-indigenous-frigate-building-program.539038/

All of them could be merged into a single sticky thread. Otherwise, we will see new threads daily on every other speculation concerning the program. 

@The Eagle

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## The Ronin

What the Dutch offered to BN is akin to the package for Indonesian Navy's SIGMA 10514 “PERUSAK KAWAL RUDAL” FRIGATE

GENERAL
Customer Indonesian Navy (TNI-AL)
Primary functions Anti Air Warfare, Anti Surface Warfare,
Anti Submarine Warfare
Secondary Maritime Security & Safety, Disaster Relief/
Humanitarian Aid
Hull material Steel grade A / AH36
Standards Naval / Commercial, naval intact / damaged
stability, noise reduced, moderate shock
Classification Lloyd’s Register of Shipping (supervision)
X100 A1 SSC Mono Patrol, G6, LMC UMS

DIMENSIONS
Length o.a. 105.11 m
Beam mld 14.02 m
Depth no.1 deck 8.75 m
Draught (dwl) 3.70 m
Displacement (dwl) 2365 tons
PERFORMANCE
Speed (Maximum power) 28 knots
Speed on E-propulsion 15 knots
Range at 14 knots > 5000 NM
Endurance > 20 days at sea
PROPULSION SYSTEM
Propulsion type combined diesel or electric (CODOE)
Diesel engines 2 x 10000 kW MCR diesel propulsion
Electric motors 2 x 1300 kW MCR electric propulsion
Gearbox 2 x double input input/single output
Propellers 2 x CPP diameter 3.65 m
Integrated platform management system
AUXILIARY SYSTEMS
Generator sets 6 x 735 kWE (CAT C-32A)
Emergency gen. set 1 x 180 kWE
Chilled water 2 x units, redundant distrubution
Fire fi ghting 4 x main pumps +1 x service pump
Freshwater making capacity 2 x 14 m3/day (RO) + 2 x 7.5 m3/day
(evaporators)

DECK EQUIPMENT
Helicopter deck max. 10 tons helicopter
Heli operations day/night with refuelling system
Helicopter hangar suitable for approx 6 tons helicopter
RAS on helicopter deck PS&SB, astern fuelling
Boats 2 x RHIB
ACCOMMODATION
Fully air-conditioned accommodation for 122 persons
Commanding Officer 1
VIP cabin (Flag officer standard) 1
Offi cers 26
Chief Petty Officers 10
Petty Officers 28
Petty officer (female) 8
Junior Ratings 29
Trainee Officers 18
Canal Pilot cabin. 1
Provisions for NBC citadel / decontamination

WEAPON & SENSOR SUITE
3D-Surveillance & target indication radar & IFF
Radar / electro optical fi re control
Hull Mounted Sonar
Combat management system
Medium calibre gun 76 mm
1 x Close In Weapon System
2 x 4 SSM launchers
12 cell SAM launcher
2 x triple Torpedo launching system

ESM & ECM
2 x Decoy launchers
Integrated internal & external communication system

NAUTICAL EQUIPMENT
Integrated bridge console, 2 x navigation radar, ECDIS,
GMDSS-A3, reference gyro

The package includes:

DESIGN AND LICENSES + MATERIAL PACKAGES + BUILDING ASSISTANCE

License
Basic Design
Detail design
+
First class equipment suppliers
Short delivery times
Advanced logistics
+
Experienced staff
Transfer of Technology
Training of shipyard cre






















http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/132616

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## Arthur

Will be a great platform to replace our old Type 53H series frigates. But I think BN has no project to build for 2000-2500 ton class at this moment. BN should take a local project for this weight class too. As in not so distant future all the current ships in this weight class will be retired from BN service.

Local Combat Ship Production by Weight Class-

350 tons- Padma Class
500-800 tons- Durjoy Class
1000-1500 tons- Shadhinota Class
4000+ Ton Frigates- Namesake not Decided yet.

You see their is a gap there, where the BNS BB and Type 53 Frigates serves currently.

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## The Ronin

Heavy corvette, yes that's the gap's name i think. We really need some of this kind.

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## TOPGUN

That's a very nice ship for the BN , looks like there is also VLS on board cant go wrong here.

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## Dot

This offer is very promissing as they would design a frigate as per our need based on their proven platform. Dutch companies are already associated with our local private Shipyards.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Certainly better then the OPV we bought


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## TOPGUN

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Certainly better then the OPV we bought



Different strokes for different folks bro.


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## Bilal9

TOPGUN said:


> Different strokes for different folks bro.



The Naval engagement doctrine for Pakistan and Bangladesh are like night and day. Two completely different scenarios.

More on topic, Sigma PKR 105 being built for Indonesia is a very modern platform, no doubt. But does it check all the boxes we need for our next lead ship which the new type frigate will be?

Unless I am confused, here are the basic requirements.

4000+ Ton displacement
VLS up front
AEGIS type radar integrated naval weapons combat system package if possible (like the Sea Viper or PAAMS) 
Networked (encrypted) non-jammable *Ship Self-Defense System* (three layers of missile defense, long/short range missile intercepts, CIWS systems as well as decoy/chaff launchers)

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


> But does it check all the boxes we need for our next lead ship which the new type frigate will be?
> 
> Unless I am confused, here are the basic requirements.
> 
> 4000+ Ton displacement
> VLS up front
> AEGIS type radar integrated naval weapons combat system package if possible (like the Sea Viper or PAAMS)
> Networked (encrypted) non-jammable *Ship Self-Defense System* (three layers of missile defense, long/short range missile intercepts, CIWS systems as well as decoy/chaff launchers)



That's the main problem here. This is actually a corvette with SHORADS. Don't know why Indonesia bothered to designate it as frigate. If they offer BN a 4000t frigate with more VLS for MRSAM based on this design then it's ok. Otherwise this is even worse than the multi purpose patrol vessel offered by Italy.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> That's the main problem here. This is actually a corvette with SHORADS. Don't know why Indonesia bothered to designate it as frigate. If they offer BN a 4000t frigate with more VLS for MRSAM based on this design then it's ok. Otherwise this is even worse than the multi purpose patrol vessel offered by Italy.



Damen can scale up the design to 4000 ton. Other than Fincantieri, DCNS (Naval) and Navantia, they are the topmost ship designer in the world. It is clear Indonesian objective is something different - maybe smaller vessels with more numbers, who knows?

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


> It is clear Indonesian objective is something different - maybe smaller vessels with more numbers, who knows?



They are planning to operate some heavy frigate and destroyer next.

I think which SAM BN choose will decide which frigate we are gonna build.

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## Nike

We classified it as PKR, perusak kawal rudal or destroyer escort, missile. Old US standard nomenclature. 

Next is AAW Frigate or Destroyer class project to give the navy an edge among neighbours

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## Bilal9

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Certainly better then the OPV we bought



No problem - Insha Allah we can build you a few once we build a few for ourselves....

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## Centaur

Bilal9 said:


> No problem - Insha Allah we can build you a few once we build a few for ourselves....


Brother an off topic question if you know this answer.
Why we are thinking of buying frigates and corrvetes only ? Aren't destroyers better ships? Or we just can't think because they are not cost effective? 
India has destroyers if I am not wrong .


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## Shorisrip

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Brother an off topic question if you know this answer.
> Why we are thinking of buying frigates and corrvetes only ? Aren't destroyers better ships? Or we just can't think because they are not cost effective?
> India has destroyers if I am not wrong .


Modern frigates, like the type we are getting are very akin to destroyers, maybe lacking a hangar, but having an air deck nonetheless, and also with lower tonnage/weight. 

We can get destroyers in the future, but we have to build from the bottom up, not the other way around. Furthermore, frigates at this point are way more cost effective than destroyers.

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## Brainsucker

Sigma weaponry and system is comparable to the already existence of Bangladesh's Shadinota Class. But with more expensive price. I think if you really aim for European Ship design, maybe you should consider FREMM or other bigger warships (if you want to avoid Chinese 4000 tonnes 054A). It's better that way rather than you want unnecessary variation that actually has the similar level of capability.

Or if you need to transport your soldiers off shore with an assault capability to the enemy shore, Indonesia has Makassar Class LPD that the capability can give Bangladesh broader option in a war against future adversary.

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## Bilal9

Jacksparrow47 said:


> Brother an off topic question if you know this answer.
> Why we are thinking of buying frigates and corrvetes only ? Aren't destroyers better ships? Or we just can't think because they are not cost effective?
> India has destroyers if I am not wrong .



Size of the Navy and their scope dictate the size and firepower of ships.

India (by dint of size and fighting power) has a blue water Navy and has destroyers in addition to having frigates. Bangladesh does not (yet) have ambitions of being a blue water Navy being a small developing country and is satisfied being a brown water navy. For brown water Navy like that of Bangladesh, Algeria, Thailand or Pakistan, having some frigates are fine as dictated by their naval war-fighting doctrine. Doctrine dictates the tools to fight a naval war (or readiness of it).

The United States, Russia and (increasingly) China now have destroyers, as does India. Destroyers usually displace around 8000 to 9000 tons and head up fighting battle group formations with frigates and corvettes. Aircraft carriers also form special (expeditionary) battle groups of their own.

Cruisers and Battle cruisers are larger than destroyers (in the range of 12000 tonnes displacement) and only Russia and US have them now (Japan built the Yamato at 45,000 tons in WWII - largest warship at that time). Modern Examples of cruisers and battle cruisers,

1. _*Yamato*_ (大和) was the lead ship of the _Yamato_ class of Imperial Japanese Navy World War II battleships. She and her sister ship, _Musashi_, were the heaviest and most powerfully armed battleships ever constructed, displacing 72,800 tonnes at full load and armed with nine 46 cm (18.1 in) 45 Caliber Type 94 main guns, which were the largest guns ever mounted on a warship. Neither ship survived the war.







2. The *Iowa-class battleships* were a class of six fast battleships ordered by the United States Navy in 1939 and 1940 to escort the Fast Carrier Task Forces that would operate in the Pacific Theater of World War II. Four were completed. This class displaced 57,500 long tons (58,400 t) (post 1980s full load).






USS _Iowa_ fires a full broadside of nine 16-inch (406 mm) / 50-caliber and six 5-inch (127 mm) / 38-caliber guns during a target exercise. IOWA was re-equipped with modern day missiles in the GULF war as seen in image below (diagonal and other canisters amidships). Note the huge pressure bowl created in the sea surface.






3. In more modern times (past the 1980s), the *Kirov-class battle-cruiser* (28,000 tons) was launched as a class of nuclear-powered warship of the Russian Navy, the largest and heaviest surface combatant warships (_i.e._ not an aircraft carrier or amphibious assault ship) in operation in the world. Among modern warships, they are second in size only to large aircraft carriers, and of similar size to a World War I era battleship. The official designation of the ship-type is "heavy nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser" (Russian: тяжёлый атомный ракетный крейсер). The ships are often referred to as battle-cruisers by western defense commentators due to their size and general appearance.[3]

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## Nike

Brainsucker said:


> Sigma weaponry and system is comparable to the already existence of Bangladesh's Shadinota Class. But with more expensive price. I think if you really aim for European Ship design, maybe you should consider FREMM or other bigger warships (if you want to avoid Chinese 4000 tonnes 054A). It's better that way rather than you want unnecessary variation that actually has the similar level of capability.
> 
> Or if you need to transport your soldiers off shore with an assault capability to the enemy shore, Indonesia has Makassar Class LPD that the capability can give Bangladesh broader option in a war against future adversary.



Ono rego ono rupo, Sadhinota class of their even is a lesser version of type 056 corvettes. No hull mounted sonar, no triple torps launcher, and CMS is suited for surface warfare only. 

Fremm is came with many limitation, they are second line combatant ship after Horizonte class after all.


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## Centaur

Bilal9 said:


> Size of the Navy and their scope dictate the size and firepower of ships.
> 
> India (by dint of size and fighting power) has a blue water Navy and has destroyers in addition to having frigates. Bangladesh does not (yet) have ambitions of being a blue water Navy being a small developing country and is satisfied being a brown water navy. For brown water Navy like that of Bangladesh, Algeria, Thailand or Pakistan, having some frigates are fine as dictated by their naval war-fighting doctrine. Doctrine dictates the tools to fight a naval war (or readiness of it).
> 
> The United States, Russia and (increasingly) China now have destroyers, as does India. Destroyers usually displace around 8000 to 9000 tons and head up fighting battle group formations with frigates and corvettes. Aircraft carriers also form special (expeditionary) battle groups of their own.
> 
> Cruisers and Battle cruisers are larger than destroyers (in the range of 12000 tonnes displacement) and only Russia and US have them now (Japan built the Yamato at 45,000 tons in WWII - largest warship at that time). Modern Examples of cruisers and battle cruisers,
> 
> 1. _*Yamato*_ (大和) was the lead ship of the _Yamato_ class of Imperial Japanese Navy World War II battleships. She and her sister ship, _Musashi_, were the heaviest and most powerfully armed battleships ever constructed, displacing 72,800 tonnes at full load and armed with nine 46 cm (18.1 in) 45 Caliber Type 94 main guns, which were the largest guns ever mounted on a warship. Neither ship survived the war.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2. The *Iowa-class battleships* were a class of six fast battleships ordered by the United States Navy in 1939 and 1940 to escort the Fast Carrier Task Forces that would operate in the Pacific Theater of World War II. Four were completed. This class displaced 57,500 long tons (58,400 t) (post 1980s full load).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> USS _Iowa_ fires a full broadside of nine 16-inch (406 mm) / 50-caliber and six 5-inch (127 mm) / 38-caliber guns during a target exercise. IOWA was re-equipped with modern day missiles in the GULF war as seen in image below (diagonal and other canisters amidships). Note the huge pressure bowl created in the sea surface.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3. In more modern times (past the 1980s), the *Kirov-class battle-cruiser* (28,000 tons) was launched as a class of nuclear-powered warship of the Russian Navy, the largest and heaviest surface combatant warships (_i.e._ not an aircraft carrier or amphibious assault ship) in operation in the world. Among modern warships, they are second in size only to large aircraft carriers, and of similar size to a World War I era battleship. The official designation of the ship-type is "heavy nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser" (Russian: тяжёлый атомный ракетный крейсер). The ships are often referred to as battle-cruisers by western defense commentators due to their size and general appearance.[3]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Thank you very much Bhai. Nice explanation with lots of informations!

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## Brainsucker

madokafc said:


> Ono rego ono rupo, Sadhinota class of their even is a lesser version of type 056 corvettes. No hull mounted sonar, no triple torps launcher, and CMS is suited for surface warfare only.
> 
> Fremm is came with many limitation, they are second line combatant ship after Horizonte class after all.



Then why Sigma, if Bangladesh is so sensitive with the price? Sigma is more expensive than the Chinese Type-056. Of course, Dutch will claim that Sigma has better quality, but in term of combat capability level, they're comparable.

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## Nike

Brainsucker said:


> Then why Sigma, if Bangladesh is so sensitive with the price? Sigma is more expensive than the Chinese Type-056. Of course, Dutch will claim that Sigma has better quality, *but in term of combat capability level, they're comparable*.



In bold, You so sure? When you lost several capabilities in terms of sensor and range of detection, not to mention data link capabilities.

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## Bilal9

Brainsucker said:


> Then why Sigma, if Bangladesh is so sensitive with the price? Sigma is more expensive than the Chinese Type-056. Of course, Dutch will claim that Sigma has better quality, but in term of combat capability level, they're comparable.



Sigma PKR 105 for Indonesia may be 'theoretically' equal to Chinese Type-056 as far as combat capability, but practically (I'd argue) quite a bit superior. Type 056 design was 'inspired' by the PKR 105, which has far more 'original' design cues and stealthier. Plus encrypted combat data system itself is far superior.

IMHO, combat ship designers at DAMEN in Netherlands have more longstanding experience designing these types of ships, as do naval architects at DCNS (France), Fincantieri(Italy) and Navantia (Spain).

You are partially right with price sensitivity in Bangladesh. However lead ships of a navy are not like cookies you buy everyday. They are strategic purchases meant to last at least 30-40 years. So a few dollars extra for an incrementally better design (and build) really does not matter in the end. Plus shipbuilding labor costs in Bangladesh is probably (again) half that of Indonesia even.



madokafc said:


> Ono rego ono rupo, Sadhinota class of their even is a lesser version of type 056 corvettes. No hull mounted sonar, no triple torps launcher, and CMS is suited for surface warfare only.
> 
> Fremm is came with many limitation, they are second line combatant ship after Horizonte class after all.



Only ASW version has sonar, triple torps launcher etc. Sadhinota class is not ASW combat-oriented vessel.

Two more 056 class (Bangladesh designation is C13B) has been ordered and is being fitted as we speak. Those may or may not have ASW features fitted.

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## The Ronin

madokafc said:


> Sadhinota class of their even is a lesser version of type 056 corvettes. No hull mounted sonar, no triple torps launcher, and CMS is suited for surface warfare only.



Cause the place it will patrol is too shallow for a sub and that's where the ASW Durgom class LPC come. They are built to reduce the workload of our C-13B and patrol with them.

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## Nilgiri

TopCat said:


> How credible is this Syed Amar Khan guy... ? He seems like @Nilgiri version 2.0



How credible is the guy that was shouting 100% approved/happening alladin skyscraper project for worlds least liveable city?

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## Brainsucker

madokafc said:


> In bold, You so sure? When you lost several capabilities in terms of sensor and range of detection, not to mention data link capabilities.



I don't have the REAL data of both ships, about their sensor and range of detection. If you have it, then you should share them here. But theoretically, they are comparable. Because like what Bilal9 said, Type 056 is inspired by Sigma Corvette design.



Bilal9 said:


> Sigma PKR 105 for Indonesia may be 'theoretically' equal to Chinese Type-056 as far as combat capability, but practically (I'd argue) quite a bit superior. Type 056 design was 'inspired' by the PKR 105, which has far more 'original' design cues and stealthier. Plus encrypted combat data system itself is far superior.
> 
> IMHO, combat ship designers at DAMEN in Netherlands have more longstanding experience designing these types of ships, as do naval architects at DCNS (France), Fincantieri(Italy) and Navantia (Spain).
> 
> You are partially right with price sensitivity in Bangladesh. However lead ships of a navy are not like cookies you buy everyday. They are strategic purchases meant to last at least 30-40 years. So a few dollars extra for an incrementally better design (and build) really does not matter in the end. Plus shipbuilding labor costs in Bangladesh is probably (again) half that of Indonesia even.



If you said about Lead Ship, then why not aim for bigger ship instead?

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## Bilal9

Brainsucker said:


> If you said about Lead Ship, then why not aim for bigger ship instead?



Exactly.

Our Navy planners (by all reports) are looking at a 3500 to 4000 ton platform (six is the final number being bandied about), a bit bigger than the Sigma PKR 105 (which is ~2500 tons). This is going to be our new lead ship for the next two decades at least, so some flexibility and future proofing in terms of stealth and modular design will be necessary, hence the larger platform. The future war scenario in the Bay of Bengal, as in the South China Sea (as predicted by the US) will be fought in the littoral areas, so you can't make these platforms too large, draft being the limiting factor.

Helicopter carriers like Dokdo class for our Navy are definitely not in the cards yet (being a brown water Navy), but hopefully one day....

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## Nabil365

Bilal9 said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Our Navy planners (by all reports) are looking at a 3500 to 4000 ton platform (six is the final number being bandied about), a bit bigger than the Sigma PKR 105 (which is ~2500 tons). This is going to be our new lead ship for the next two decades at least, so some flexibility and future proofing in terms of stealth and modular design will be necessary, hence the larger platform. The future war scenario in the Bay of Bengal, as in the South China Sea (as predicted by the US) will be fought in the littoral areas, so you can't make these platforms too large, draft being the limiting factor.
> 
> Helicopter carriers like Dokdo class for our Navy are definitely not in the cards yet (being a brown water Navy), but hopefully one day....


Type 054A apparently got rejected according to BDmilitary admin.

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## UKBengali

Nabil365 said:


> Type 054A apparently got rejected according to BDmilitary admin.



Good.
China cannot be trusted over Myanmar.
Hope BD goes for EU design.

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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> Good.
> China cannot be trusted over Myanmar.
> Hope BD goes for EU design.


How about Turkish MILGEM project ship?


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## UKBengali

Cannon Fodder said:


> How about Turkish MILGEM project ship?



Does not have all Turkish systems and nowhere near powerful enough in terms of sensors and armaments. Turkey is designing a new frigate that would be suitable but will not be available for another decade.
BD needs something like Fremm frigate with huge MFR AESA radar and mix of 32 Aster 15/30 SAMs.

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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> Does not have all Turkish systems and nowhere near powerful enough in terms of sensors and armaments. Turkey is designing a new frigate that would be suitable but will not be available for another decade.
> BD needs something like Fremm frigate with huge MFR AESA radar and mix of 32 Aster 15/30 SAMs.


LOL, I was talking about MILGEM combat ship project NOT Ada class corvette from the project! And Turkey doesn't produce every systems just like other EU countries. MILGEM project designs are modular and obviously available...

Powerful ship requires deep pocket which we don't have. We don't even operate proper modern corvette. But, you're dreaming FREMM-Type 26! LOL man, LOL...


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## UKBengali

Cannon Fodder said:


> LOL, I was talking about MILGEM combat ship project NOT Ada class corvette from the project! And Turkey doesn't produce every systems just like other EU countries. MILGEM project designs are modular and obviously available...
> 
> Powerful ship requires deep pocket which we don't have. But, you're dreaming FREMM-Type 26! LOL man, LOL...



Dude, these 6 ships will be built between now and 2030. 6 will come to around 4 billion US dollars at today's prices if BD goes for the heaviest version(7000 tonnes) but more likely a cut-down 4000+ tonne version will come in at around 3 billion US dollar s. Of course BD can afford it with expected growth of at least 7% a year between now and 2030. You are not looking at the long-term picture here.
Unlike Milgem which cannot be suitable for BD's needs as it lacks sensor and armament range( only 3000 tonne) and will not even be in service with Turkey for another 5 years, EU design will mean no component is US and less chance of sanctions.

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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> Dude, these 6 ships will be built between now and 2030. 6 will come to around 4 billion US dollars at today's prices. Of course BD can afford it with expected growth of at least 7% a year between now and 2030. You are not looking at the long-term picture here.
> Unlike Milgem which cannot be suitable for BD's needs as it lacks sensor and armament range, EU design will mean no component is US and less chance of sanctions.


Bro, stop you fanboi claims with future tense...

I was talking about MILGEM project design only. Components can be picked as we like...


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## Arthur

Cannon Fodder said:


> We don't even operate proper modern corvette.


Details please.


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## Flynn Swagmire

Khan saheb said:


> Details please.


What details?


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## Arthur

Cannon Fodder said:


> What details?


why do you think "We don't even operate proper modern corvette"?


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## Dot

Guys, as per BDmilitary all naval contracts are going to the Chinese. But the already stated rejection on 054A stands. If BDmilitary stands true, then a different Chinese variant/design maybe!


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## Flynn Swagmire

Khan saheb said:


> why do you think "We don't even operate proper modern corvette"?


Because, I can see any modern corvette hoisting Bangladeshi flag...


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## UKBengali

Cannon Fodder said:


> Bro, stop you fanboi claims with future tense...
> 
> I was talking about MILGEM project design only. Components can be picked as we like...




With all due respect, the ships will be built all the way to 2030. Future tense is relevant now as cost will be spread all the way to then and even beyond.
All reports say that the ship will be around 4000 tonnes in displacement and so that rules out the Turkish TF-100 frigate that is only 3000 tonnes, and it will not even be in service till 2021 with Turkish Navy! Be realistic, BD cannot use this design as a base for at least another 5 years.
If the Chinese have been rejected by BD, this only leaves an European design as the only realistic option at this time. I would like BD to go with Turkey but they will not have anything suitable for another decade. BD will start building this year and not 2025!

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## Flynn Swagmire

Dot said:


> Guys, as per BDmilitary all naval contracts are going to the Chinese. But the already stated rejection on 054A stands. If BDmilitary stands true, then a different Chinese variant/design maybe!


In Sylhet we say:
বাঙাল লাখ টেখার স্বপ্ন দেখে, তলে ছিড়া খেতা...

Just WOW...


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## Arthur

Cannon Fodder said:


> Because, I can see any modern corvette hoisting Bangladeshi flag...


hmmm... I see. Consult an eye specialist then.


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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> With all due respect, the ships will be built all the way to 2030. Future tense is relevant now as cost will be spread all the way to then and even beyond.
> All reports say that the ship will be around 4000 tonnes in displacement and so that rules out the Turkish TF-100 frigate that is only 3000 tonnes, and it will not even be in service till 2021 with Turkish Navy! Be realistic, BD cannot use this design as a base for at least another 5 years.
> If the Chinese have been rejected by BD, this only leaves an European design as the only realistic option at this time. I would like BD to go with Turkey but they will not have anything suitable for another decade. BD will start building this year and not 2025!


OK bro...

Let see বাঙালীর অউকাদ...


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## UKBengali

Cannon Fodder said:


> OK bro...
> 
> Let see বাঙালীর অউকাদ...



We shall find out sometime this year for sure
as the first ship will start construction before the
year is out.

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## Arthur

UKBengali said:


> With all due respect, the ships will be built all the way to 2030. Future tense is relevant now as cost will be spread all the way to then and even beyond.
> All reports say that the ship will be around 4000 tonnes in displacement and so that rules out the Turkish TF-100 frigate that is only 3000 tonnes, and it will not even be in service till 2021 with Turkish Navy! Be realistic, BD cannot use this design as a base for at least another 5 years.
> If the Chinese have been rejected by BD, this only leaves an European design as the only realistic option at this time. I would like BD to go with Turkey but they will not have anything suitable for another decade. BD will start building this year and not 2025!


Give it a rest. He is just too much of an smart *** even for his own good.

Anyway I don't think origin of the hull is more important than the armaments & Electronics it will carry. Gonna keep an open mind on that.

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## Flynn Swagmire

Khan saheb said:


> hmmm... I see. Consult an eye specialist then.


LOL, OK...


UKBengali said:


> We shall find out sometime this year for sure
> as the first ship will start construction before the
> year is out.


I am waiting! Just like SU-30...


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## UKBengali

Cannon Fodder said:


> I am waiting! Just like SU-30...



BN is not led by idiots like the BAF is.


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## Flynn Swagmire

UKBengali said:


> BN is not led by idiots like the BAF is.


Lets hope so...


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## ghost250

UKBengali said:


> BN is not led by idiots like the BAF is.


i dont think frigate construction will start within this year, very likely shadhinota class corvette project will see ray of light this year..

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## Bilal9

Guys regarding 054A, whether China rejected the request for 054A from us, or we rejected their 'dumbed down' return offer, current 054A still costs north of $1.5 Billion (with a 'B') a copy. So that's why this design maybe out of the question. Also 054B keel may have been laid already, which will have many improvements over 054A. See here,

https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/china-launches-new-type-054a-guided-missile-stealth-frigate/

If a 3500-4000 ton design is chosen (FREMM or otherwise), we may decide to put minimal offensive and some defensive armaments on it now to save cost and upgrade later (to incorporate modular design for different missiles for VLS tubes). I also think there will be construction in more than one batch (probably punctuated by batches of two). In modern construction parlance this is called Flight I, II, III etc.



shourov323 said:


> i dont think frigate construction will start within this year, very likely shadhinota class corvette project will see ray of light this year..



I agree.

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## The Ronin

Heard they offered us their Tiger class and demanded 400 million for Type-54A.



shourov323 said:


> i dont think frigate construction will start within this year, very likely shadhinota class corvette project will see ray of light this year..



Cause the shipyard isn't there yet. Maybe they are planning to start building it from this year.


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## The Ronin

This is the frigate offered by China to the Bangladesh Navy. Earlier the Bangladesh Navy had rejected the Type 054A based frigate as they wanted more advanced radar systems and weaponry. This new frigate is equipped with quack pack universal VLS capable of firing anti-ship, anti-air and anti-submarine torpedoes as and it has a 2x2 land attack cruise missile system as well with a range of 280 km, two triple tubes for ASW torpedoes, one 8-cell FL-3000N close-in missile system, one 130mm main gun, and one Type 730B CIWS and 2 ASW rocket launchers. It will also carry one AW159 helicopter supplied by Leonardo.

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## Brainsucker

They offer you the 054B Frigate? A frigate that even Chinese PLAN themselves haven't procure yet?


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## The Ronin

Brainsucker said:


> They offer you the 054B Frigate? A frigate that even Chinese PLAN themselves haven't procure yet?



Read the title again.


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## YeBeWarned

Brainsucker said:


> They offer you the 054B Frigate? A frigate that even Chinese PLAN themselves haven't procure yet?



Type 54A , its a good Ship but maybe BN is looking for something different ..


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## Brainsucker

Starlord said:


> Type 54A , its a good Ship but maybe BN is looking for something different ..



I'm a Chinese Military Fan. I know what 054A is.

It's not 054A. Bangladesh has rejected the 054A earlier. This new frigate has a quack pack of universal VLS. 054A doesn't has a universal VLS. The 054A also doesn't has FL-3000N, which this frigate has. Also the picture show that it's indeed the 054B. The flat radars at the tower are APAR. Which is not included in 054A. And the radar at the rear look similar to what 055 has at her main tower.

If the picture is real, then it's 054B that China offer to Bangladesh. A ship that even PLAN haven't procure, yet.

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## The Ronin

Brainsucker said:


> The 054A also doesn't has FL-3000N,



The export variant do have FL-30000N

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## Brainsucker

The Ronin said:


> The export variant do have FL-30000N



But the Export Variant also doesn't has 730B CIWS and 130 mm main gun. Instead it has AK630 CIWS and 76 mm gun. Plus, it doesn't possess universal VLS. It has 32x VLS Anti Aircraft Missiles.


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## KapitaanAli

Brainsucker said:


> They offer you the 054B Frigate? A frigate that even Chinese PLAN themselves haven't procure yet?


These are speculative threads.
BD plans to acquire frigates, so they're just making threads on each frigate in their wishlist.

Type 054B is near impossible.
Maybe 054A+.

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## The Ronin

KapitaanAli said:


> their wishlist



Nope, you can call these possible offer.

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## idune

Bangladesh navy had been looking for suitor for its one of a kind "warship" program. Since then ruling regime cheer leading team from bdmilitary.com propaganda site scouring the world to find "possible" warship and inventing offer out of thin air. Seeing all the wild imagination floating around, traditional boat maker also got interested in the hype. Their latest offer is custom wooden boat retrofitted with one of a kind gun that can leave enemy senseless just seeing it. Using firepower may not be even necessary. 

_








_

*For further information, contact bdmiliatry.com*

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## Species

These are just speculations of the Bdmilitary admin. There is no need to create new threads on mere speculations. These could be posted in the existing threads.

@waz @The Eagle I think it's time to have a sticky thread on the frigate program where all these discussions could be posted. We are getting new threads every other day on the same topic.

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## Bilal9

Brainsucker said:


> But the Export Variant also doesn't has 730B CIWS and 130 mm main gun. Instead it has AK630 CIWS and 76 mm gun. Plus, it doesn't possess universal VLS. It has 32x VLS Anti Aircraft Missiles.



I can understand the skepticism but let's look at this logically.

You have a batch of six frigates being built (over time) at roughly $350 Million a copy. which makes the package well north of $2 Billion. For any nation (especially China) this is a lucrative export order. 

Navantia, Fincantieri, DCNS, Damen, all will be interested and will offer their best designs. There is no 'security issue' on sharing stealth designs for frigates. China at best would keep their proprietary tactical data link system a secret. Radar sensors and electronics made in China are all 'inspired by' Western makes like RACAL, Ericsson, Hughes etc., nothing 'proprietary' there.

What big secret will the Chinese keep by not offering their best designs and hardware?

What will they hold back ensuring that they win by offering the most modern design and price-bidding for this contract?

I'd say not much.

The integrated mast, 130mm gun and universal VLS is a fairly common commodity these days. So is the type 730 CIWS (again, an 'inspiration' from Russia). If the Italian and French builders offer a FREMM type design with all the goodies, will the Chinese be foolish and not offer the same level of armament?

Look at the crow's nest mast of the 054A and see if in today's stealth-centric world, it cuts it anymore...






Now let's look at the clean integrated mast of 054B with APAR as you mentioned,













Pretty standard stuff....

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## The Ronin

Species said:


> These are just speculations of the Bdmilitary admin. There is no need to create new threads on mere speculations. These could be posted in the existing threads.
> 
> @waz @The Eagle I think it's time to have a sticky thread on the frigate program where all these discussions could be posted. We are getting new threads every other day on the same topic.



Well the dutch offer might be real as they only have Sigma class with different variants. Anyway i don't know how to make a sticky thread. Can you start it and merge all these thread into one?

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## Bilal9

KapitaanAli said:


> Type 054B is near impossible.
> Maybe 054A+.



I'd be interested to know how you arrived at this opinion...

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## Species

The Ronin said:


> Well the dutch offer might be real as they only have Sigma class with different variants. Anyway i don't know how to make a sticky thread. Can you start it and merge all these thread into one?



Sticky threads could be created by the admins/mods only.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> Well the dutch offer might be real as they only have Sigma class with different variants. Anyway i don't know how to make a sticky thread. Can you start it and merge all these thread into one?



I believe only the admin of this subforum (@The Eagle bhai) can make a thread sticky. Thanks in advance to him for that and also gathering all the other frigate threads and merging them.

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## Sinnerman108

Hahahaha .. loved the sense of humor.

Don't worry my friend, better days will come .. nothing is perpetual but the name of God almighty.


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## Sh@msu

would appreciate


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## The Eagle

Similar threads merged in one place and name edited as feasible.

Note that hearsay, mere opinion from any defence forum outside PDF, be avoided to be treated as a credible source. It is advised to share only credible source based news & information.

Regards,

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## Species

The Eagle said:


> Similar threads merged in one place and name edited as feasible.
> 
> Note that hearsay, mere opinion from any defence forum outside PDF, be avoided to be treated as a credible source. It is advised to share only credible source based news & information.
> 
> Regards,



Please merge these two similar threads as well since they contain some useful information about the program.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bang...-guided-missile-frigates-indigenously.506853/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/bangladesh-navy-indigenous-frigate-development-program.501481/

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## The Eagle

Relevant threads merged. Please continue with quality and productive discussion.

Regards,

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## Bengal Tiger 71

Beside 6 guided missile frigates BD need 0ne 6000-7000 ton Destroyer.


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## Bilal9

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> Beside 6 guided missile frigates BD need 0ne 6000-7000 ton Destroyer.



Only blue water navies need destroyers and then mostly as carrier escorts. You can study other medium sized navies comparable to Bangladesh and then see this.

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## Doctor Strange

Bengal Tiger 71 said:


> 0ne 6000-7000 ton Destroyer



That one Destroyer, our @UKBengali vai will set in Buriganga to protect entire Dhaka against MAF


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## UKBengali

The Last Jedi said:


> That one Destroyer, our @UKBengali vai will set in Buriganga to protect entire Dhaka against MAF



Much as I would love BD to be equipped with destroyers soon, this is unlikely to happen before 2030.
BD will be busy between now and 2030 in building 6 frigates which for all intents and purposes will be mini-destroyers withe the full array of SAMs, SSMs and LACMs. These ships will completely dominate MN and provide a strong opponent to the IN in the Bay of Bengal.
BD can build destroyers before 2030 but it will mean turning it's back on it's egalitarian society that looks after all it's citizens as best it can.

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## bd_4_ever

UKBengali said:


> Much as I would love BD to be equipped with destroyers soon, this is unlikely to happen before 2030.
> BD will be busy between now and 2030 in building 6 frigates which for all intents and purposes will be mini-destroyers withe the full array of SAMs, SSMs and LACMs. These ships will completely dominate MN and provide a strong opponent to the IN in the Bay of Bengal.
> BD can build destroyers before 2030 but it will mean turning it's back on it's egalitarian society that looks after all it's citizens as best it can.



We actually dont need to waste money and resources to build a destroyer even after 2030. This does not and will not bode in with our doctrine. We should continue building frigates and look to expand our sub fleet.

What we need to do is start producing artillery pieces and its ammunition locally and have a heavy number of them by then.

If possible, we should start looking into making trainers, helicopters, UAV at BAC by 2030. But that is BAF we are talking about, the most moronic leadership of the 3.

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## UKBengali

bd_4_ever said:


> We actually dont need to waste money and resources to build a destroyer even after 2030. This does not and will not bode in with our doctrine. We should continue building frigates and look to expand our sub fleet.
> 
> What we need to do is start producing artillery pieces and its ammunition locally and have a heavy number of them by then.
> 
> If possible, we should start looking into making trainers, helicopters, UAV at BAC by 2030. But that is BAF we are talking about, the most moronic leadership of the 3.



I agree to some extent.
However BD's strongest adversary India will have at least 12 destroyers by 2030. BD will continue to keep building frigates after the current 6 but may also want a small batch(3-4) of destroyers as well.
With the rise of BD, it's trading interests will become more global and nothing would beat sending a fleet led by a couple of destroyers.
I know this is projecting 20 years into the future but an economically prosperous BD would need a potent BN to safeguard it's trade.


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## BDforever

UKBengali said:


> I agree to some extent.
> However BD's strongest adversary India will have at least 12 destroyers by 2030. BD will continue to keep building frigates after the current 6 but may also want a small batch(3-4) of destroyers as well.
> With the rise of BD, it's trading interests will become more global and nothing would beat sending a fleet led by a couple of destroyers.
> I know this is projecting 20 years into the future but an economically prosperous BD would need a potent BN to safeguard it's trade.


secret: BN's number game cough*** cough***

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## Arthur

BDforever said:


> secret: BN's number game cough*** cough***


The solution is simple my friend. 

Build a 7000 ton ship with systems and armaments that of an destroyer and call it a frigate. 


Anyway we are veering off topic here. 

Goodday.

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## Nike

UKBengali said:


> I agree to some extent.
> However BD's strongest adversary India will have at least 12 destroyers by 2030. BD will continue to keep building frigates after the current 6 but may also want a small batch(3-4) of destroyers as well.
> With the rise of BD, it's trading interests will become more global and nothing would beat sending a fleet led by a couple of destroyers.
> I know this is projecting 20 years into the future but an economically prosperous BD would need a potent BN to safeguard it's trade.



They have 11 today , 3 kolkata class, 3 delhi, and 5 rajput class. And i will put the firepower and endurance of their Shivalik class frigate above Rajput class

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## Species

madokafc said:


> They have 11 today , 3 kolkata class, 3 delhi, and 5 rajput class. And i will put the firepower and endurance of their Shivalik class frigate above Rajput class



Rajput class will retire in a year or two.


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## bd_4_ever

UKBengali said:


> I agree to some extent.
> However BD's strongest adversary India will have at least 12 destroyers by 2030. BD will continue to keep building frigates after the current 6 but may also want a small batch(3-4) of destroyers as well.
> With the rise of BD, it's trading interests will become more global and nothing would beat sending a fleet led by a couple of destroyers.
> I know this is projecting 20 years into the future but an economically prosperous BD would need a potent BN to safeguard it's trade.



Doesn't matter what India has. If it doesn't comply with our doctrine, there is no point getting it. Matching India arm to arm was never the target of BN but to stay formidable. And to stay formidable, a destroyer isnt a necessity.

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## UKBengali

bd_4_ever said:


> Doesn't matter what India has. If it doesn't comply with our doctrine, there is no point getting it. Matching India arm to arm was never the target of BN but to stay formidable. And to stay formidable, a destroyer isnt a necessity.



OK. Let us agree to disagree on this.
2-3 decades from now I can see a much closer
relationship between Muslim countries like Turkey,
BD and Indonesia, both economically and militarily. They need Navies powerful enough to stand up to all bar USN and PLAAN in
order to have a strong independent foreign policy.
It is not just a case of standing up to IN.



Nilgiri said:


> P-17 A frigate will also come in (succesor to Shivalik)....in the frigate/destroyer overlap area....it will be lot more lethal than Shivalik and 7 of them are incoming. Add to that 4 Vizag class destroyers (kolkata class succesor). More than enough to compensate for Rajput class decommissioning.
> 
> Not to mention the integrated C4I network (including dedicated space sats) along with weaponised MPA like P-8 that BD simply will never get in foreseeable future. And tin boat riverine swamp ppl think 6 easily dealt with targets will be any deterrence lol. They dont dare to get into a small shooting war with Myanmar, but the country that is reason for their existence in the first place is the "adversary". This is called Delta syndrome



Do you know the incoming Chinese Type-054B frigate is as powerful as the most advanced IN destroyers?


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## idune

UKBengali said:


> Do you know the *incoming Chinese Type-054B frigate* is as powerful as the most advanced IN destroyers?


in - coming to where????


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## Species

idune said:


> in - coming to where????



Bangladesh

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## UKBengali

Species said:


> Bangladesh



Expect @Nilgiri to not respond as the Type-054B can quad pack 4x32 Medium range missile(70km) for a total of 128 SAMs whereas the best that India will have soon is the P-17B class that carries 32 Barak-8 SAMs that are slightly longer ranged at up to 90-100km.
In fact there is a good case for arguing that the Type-054B frigate is actually a more powerful ship than the 
P-17B destroyer despite the fact it has 2/3rds of the weight.

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## idune

Species said:


> Bangladesh


Proof/official statement????


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## The Ronin

idune said:


> Proof/official statement????



Type 54 A or B whatever it is, will be on top of BN's frigate list because of budget, price, weapon commonality. It's an easy assumption, don't think China will let go their 2nd biggest arms exporter to European option that easy nor BN will try if they can get a good customized frigate with European radar-sensors in cheapest price among all other offer.

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## idune

The Ronin said:


> Type 54 A or B whatever it is, will be on top of BN's frigate list because of budget, price, weapon commonality. It's an easy assumption, don't think China will let go their 2nd biggest arms exporter to European option that easy nor BN will try if they can get a good customized frigate with European radar-sensors in cheapest price among all other offer.



No blabbering. Do you have official statement or proof that @UKBengali is claiming "*incoming Chinese Type-054B frigate"*?


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## Brainsucker

Bilal9 said:


> I can understand the skepticism but let's look at this logically.
> 
> You have a batch of six frigates being built (over time) at roughly $350 Million a copy. which makes the package well north of $2 Billion. For any nation (especially China) this is a lucrative export order.
> 
> Navantia, Fincantieri, DCNS, Damen, all will be interested and will offer their best designs. There is no 'security issue' on sharing stealth designs for frigates. China at best would keep their proprietary tactical data link system a secret. Radar sensors and electronics made in China are all 'inspired by' Western makes like RACAL, Ericsson, Hughes etc., nothing 'proprietary' there.
> 
> What big secret will the Chinese keep by not offering their best designs and hardware?
> 
> What will they hold back ensuring that they win by offering the most modern design and price-bidding for this contract?
> 
> I'd say not much.
> 
> The integrated mast, 130mm gun and universal VLS is a fairly common commodity these days. So is the type 730 CIWS (again, an 'inspiration' from Russia). If the Italian and French builders offer a FREMM type design with all the goodies, will the Chinese be foolish and not offer the same level of armament?
> 
> Look at the crow's nest mast of the 054A and see if in today's stealth-centric world, it cuts it anymore...
> 
> Now let's look at the clean integrated mast of 054B with APAR as you mentioned,
> 
> Pretty standard stuff....



Sorry, but FREMM is a 6800 tonnes Frigate. It is out of your criteria of the Frigate that you want to procure. If what you seek is a 3000 - 4000 tonnes Frigate. Most of the European today Frigates have more than 5000 tonnes weight.

These are the list of 3000 - 4000 tonnes warships (not the only) :

1. 051 Luda Class Destroyer 3600 tonnes - No VLS
2. 052 Luhu Class Destroyer 4800 tonnes - No VLS
3. MEKO 360 3360 tonnes - 24 SAM VLS
4. Asagiri class Destroyer 3500 tonnes - No VLS
5. KDX-1 Okpo 3900 tonnes - 16 Sea Sparrow VLS
6. Hatakaze Class 4600 tonnes - No VLS
7. Hatsuyuki Class 3050 tonnes - No VLS
8. Kashin Class 4000 tonnes - No VLS
9. Murasame Class 4550 tonnes - No VLS
10. Takanami Class 4650 tonnes - No VLS
11. 054 A Class Frigate 4000 tonnes - 32 SAM VLS
12. Anzac Class Frigate 3600 tonnes - 8 cell MK-41 VLS
13. Brahmaputra Class Frigate 3850 tonnes - no VLS
14. Bandenburg Class Frigate 4900 tonnes - 16 SAM VLS, 2 RAM
15. Bremen Class Frigate 3680 tonnes - 16 SAM VLS, 2 RAM
16. Cassard CLass Frigate 4500 tonnes - No VLS
17. Formidable Class Frigate 3200 tonnes - 32 SAM VLS
18. etc (I'm tired to research)

Basically, almost non 3000 - 4000 tonnes warship has universal VLS. Even if there is, it has only a very limited amount of missile, like Anzac with only 8 universal VLS. So 054A is not a bad offer from the beginning after all. The 054B Frigate that still non existence even today even has more than 5000 tonnes because of the size that it has compared to 054A (search it in Chinese Defense Section, there is a comparison of size between 055, 054B and 054A. Basically 054B is way bigger than 054A).

And for Type-730 CIWS as inspired by Russian? I beg to pardon, but which Russian CIWS that the 730 CIWS inspired from? I know AK630 CIWS and Kashtan, but they are way different to type-730. But I know that Type-730 is not kept only for PLAN as Indonesia has procure this weapon for our ship. And even the PLAN 054A standard use the bigger, and better CIWS than Type-730; Type 1130 CIWS. For AK630 CIWS that offered in Export Variant, it's actually a Russian design CIWS. If you think that it's bad, then tell Russian about that.

I beg to pardon if you said that Type 054B radar / Avionic system is a pretty standard stuff, look again at the rear system. It is very similar to the 055 Destroyer radar / Avionic system. And don't tell me that 055 Destroyer's radar / avionic system is a standard stuff.

Maybe yes, standard stuff. But it is a standard stuff of the best system that western countries have today. Will they (Western countries) sell it to Bangladesh? Maybe. But also maybe not.

But I won't close the possibility that China will offer the 054B to Bangladesh. Because they have already have 052D and 055. So 054B won't be their best in today standard. Plus, they think Bangladesh as a friend. So selling one of the best stuffs is actually very possible to happen.

But the appearance of a 054B in Bangladesh Navy will throw the balance of power in the region, as Bangladesh will definitely outclass the Myanmar Navy capability.

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## The Ronin

idune said:


> No blabbering. Do you have official statement or proof that @UKBengali is claiming "*incoming Chinese Type-054B frigate"*?



Did BD military ever disclose the offer they were given to public??



Brainsucker said:


> Sorry, but FREMM is a 6800 tonnes Frigate. It is out of your criteria of the Frigate that you want to procure. If what you seek is a 3000 - 4000 tonnes Frigate. Most of the European today Frigates have more than 5000 tonnes weight.
> 
> These are the list of 3000 - 4000 tonnes warships (not the only) :
> 
> 1. 051 Luda Class Destroyer 3600 tonnes - No VLS
> 2. 052 Luhu Class Destroyer 4800 tonnes - No VLS
> 3. MEKO 360 3360 tonnes - 24 SAM VLS
> 4. Asagiri class Destroyer 3500 tonnes - No VLS
> 5. KDX-1 Okpo 3900 tonnes - 16 Sea Sparrow VLS
> 6. Hatakaze Class 4600 tonnes - No VLS
> 7. Hatsuyuki Class 3050 tonnes - No VLS
> 8. Kashin Class 4000 tonnes - No VLS
> 9. Murasame Class 4550 tonnes - No VLS
> 10. Takanami Class 4650 tonnes - No VLS
> 11. 054 A Class Frigate 4000 tonnes - 32 SAM VLS
> 12. Anzac Class Frigate 3600 tonnes - 8 cell MK-41 VLS
> 13. Brahmaputra Class Frigate 3850 tonnes - no VLS
> 14. Bandenburg Class Frigate 4900 tonnes - 16 SAM VLS, 2 RAM
> 15. Bremen Class Frigate 3680 tonnes - 16 SAM VLS, 2 RAM
> 16. Cassard CLass Frigate 4500 tonnes - No VLS
> 17. Formidable Class Frigate 3200 tonnes - 32 SAM VLS
> 18. etc (I'm tired to research)
> 
> Basically, almost non 3000 - 4000 tonnes warship has universal VLS. Even if there is, it has only a very limited amount of missile, like Anzac with only 8 universal VLS. So 054A is not a bad offer from the beginning after all. The 054B Frigate that still non existence even today even has more than 5000 tonnes because of the size that it has compared to 054A (search it in Chinese Defense Section, there is a comparison of size between 055, 054B and 054A. Basically 054B is way bigger than 054A).
> 
> And for Type-730 CIWS as inspired by Russian? I beg to pardon, but which Russian CIWS that the 730 CIWS inspired from? I know AK630 CIWS and Kashtan, but they are way different to type-730. But I know that Type-730 is not kept only for PLAN as Indonesia has procure this weapon for our ship. And even the PLAN 054A standard use the bigger, and better CIWS than Type-730; Type 1130 CIWS. For AK630 CIWS that offered in Export Variant, it's actually a Russian design CIWS. If you think that it's bad, then tell Russian about that.
> 
> I beg to pardon if you said that Type 054B radar / Avionic system is a pretty standard stuff, look again at the rear system. It is very similar to the 055 Destroyer radar / Avionic system. And don't tell me that 055 Destroyer's radar / avionic system is a standard stuff.
> 
> Maybe yes, standard stuff. But it is a standard stuff of the best system that western countries have today. Will they (Western countries) sell it to Bangladesh? Maybe. But also maybe not.
> 
> But I won't close the possibility that China will offer the 054B to Bangladesh. Because they have already have 052D and 055. So 054B won't be their best in today standard. Plus, they think Bangladesh as a friend. So selling one of the best stuffs is actually very possible to happen.
> 
> But the appearance of a 054B in Bangladesh Navy will throw the balance of power in the region, as Bangladesh will definitely outclass the Myanmar Navy capability.



What's with this messy list?? Why did you bring all those non stealthy old options here too?? Stick with the French, Italian, Dutch and Chinese ones. And Incheon class do have 8 and 16 cell option with quad pack. It's not like they have to offer or we have to take the exact same 5000 ton frigate but they still can offer a ship with UVLS, better CIWS and LACM. (With 32 cell or less vls and LACM or not). There's no obligation in it , is there?? If the design is based on Type-54B which isn't even built yet it doesn't actually matter. It won't be 5000t anyway. Remember their export variant of Type-54A's displacement?? less 200 tons than the original but have a FL-3000N CIWS in addition with almost same features if i am not wrong. With France, Italy and Netherlands in competition China have to bring all the cards they can. And why did you mention FREMM? Belharra was actually offered.

this is the only tiny proof we have if we don't count other source as reliable. 
http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/132616.

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## Brainsucker

The Ronin said:


> Did BD military ever disclose the offer they were given to public??
> 
> What's with this messy list?? Why did you bring all those non stealthy old options here too?? Stick with the French, Italian, Dutch and Chinese ones. And Incheon class do have 8 and 16 cell option with quad pack. It's not like they have to offer or we have to take the exact same 5000 ton frigate but they still can offer a ship with UVLS, better CIWS and LACM. (With 32 cell or less vls and LACM or not). There's no obligation in it , is there?? If the design is based on Type-54B which isn't even built yet it doesn't actually matter. It won't be 5000t anyway. Remember their export variant of Type-54A's displacement?? less 200 tons than the original but have a FL-3000N CIWS in addition with almost same features if i am not wrong. With France, Italy and Netherlands in competition China have to bring all the cards they can. And why did you mention FREMM? Belharra was actually offered.
> 
> this is the only tiny proof we have if we don't count other source as reliable.
> http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/132616.



For the crap list, well, just spare me for that. I spent some of my time to research for that. I know that many of them are old. I just want to say to Bilal9 that it's very rarely that a 3000 - 4000 tonnes ship has a Universal VLS.

About old or not, it doesn't matter isn't it? Even some countries still welcome an old American Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate if the US give them the green light for it. Warship is expensive. Most the best Destroyer today has the tag price of more than 1 billions USD. If you have the money, then get the best. But if not, even an old '80 era warship is still an option.

About FREMM, I just answering Bilal9, because he mentioned FREMM. And even Belharra has no universal VLS. It still use SAM VLS. But it doesn't mean that Belharra is bad. It's actually good, a very good 4000 tonnes Frigate, with of course a tag price of at least 840 million USD (for France. They'll sell with higher price to other country. French just procure 5 Belharra for 4.2 billions USD). https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2...gate-designed-for-the-french-navy-and-export/

Also Incheon doesn't has UVLS either. Basically it's rarely that a ship below 5000 tonnes have Universal VLS. Maybe because they're too small for the U-VLS?

The export variant of 054A has a FL-3000 N RAM, yes. But they change the CIWS with AK-630 CIWS. not a bad CIWS, but smaller than 730 CIWS. It also has the same 76mm main gun, as the PLAN version of 054A. But the Chinese Frigate that you mentioned; with Type 730B CIWS, 130mm main gun, Universal VLS, APAR.... Is it not a 052D Destroyer that you mentioned? A Type 052D Destroyer has a tag price of more than 700 millions USD. maybe it almost 1 billion in export tag price.

IF 054B is indeed has the 130mm Main gun, Universal VLS, APAR dome, Type 730B CIWS, it should be heavier than 5000 tonnes. It will be a heavy frigate / light destroyer specification. Good for Bangladesh if you can procure it. So it won't has the same price tag as the 054A.

So how much Bangladesh Budget to procure these advance warship? If you have the money, just take the best. If not, just seek the most economic but capable for your navy.

But I can imagine that Myanmar and India won't be able to sleep soundly if you can procure 6 Belharra.

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## The Ronin

Brainsucker said:


> About old or not, it doesn't matter isn't it?



Yes it obviously matter for us. These 6 flag ship will be backbone for our navy and it will be here for next 30 years. Also it will pave the way for future indigenous warship with bigger displacements.



Brainsucker said:


> Even some countries still welcome an old American Oliver Hazard Perry Frigate if the US give them the green light for it.



Which country?? Only country with poor military budget will go for these. Why would i care about them?? It's my country that matters, it's our country and frigate program we are talking about. We can afford better.



Brainsucker said:


> even an old '80 era warship is still an option.



Not for us. Heck i can't even think about a warship with stealthy design and minimum AD (not CIWS) as most new ships are being built like this nowadays. Even _Steregushchiy_ class have 12 cell vls for MRSAM. 80 era ships are obsolete now cause even a ship with minimum AD has still have chance to get hit by AShM.



Brainsucker said:


> About FREMM, I just answering Bilal9, because he mentioned FREMM. And even Belharra has no universal VLS. It still use SAM VLS. But it doesn't mean that Belharra is bad. It's actually good, a very good 4000 tonnes Frigate, with of course a tag price of at least 840 million USD



FREMM, Belharra is totally in different league than Type-54A. UVLS or not you can't compare Aster 15/30 with a Buk rip off Chinese HQ-16.



Brainsucker said:


> But they change the CIWS with AK-630 CIWS. not a bad CIWS, but smaller than 730 CIWS.



It's actually have two six-barrel Type 730A 30 mm guns for short-range self defence now with new design.

http://www.janes.com/article/69073/china-s-csoc-showcases-a-new-4-000-tonne-frigate

Maybe you didn't understand what i said before so let me try one more time. It's not like China will give us the exact Type-54B with 5000 tons displacement. If there is a export variant or something based on this it will have less displacement. Like their export variant of Type-54A with 3500 and then 3800 tons. You can customize the ship as your wish. 130mm or 76mm, With or without LACM, Quadpack UVLS 32 cell or less than it. However it stays in 4000+ you can still get those features.

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## Brainsucker

The Ronin said:


> FREMM, Belharra is totally in different league than Type-54A. UVLS or not you can't compare Aster 15/30 with a Buk rip off Chinese HQ-16.



Didn't I said in my previous post that if you have money, just get the best? And what is your basis about your claim that Aster 15/30 can't be compared to HQ-16? Please show it here.


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## Bilal9

Brainsucker said:


> Sorry, but FREMM is a 6800 tonnes Frigate. It is out of your criteria of the Frigate that you want to procure. If what you seek is a 3000 - 4000 tonnes Frigate. Most of the European today Frigates have more than 5000 tonnes weight.
> 
> These are the list of 3000 - 4000 tonnes warships (not the only) :
> 
> 1. 051 Luda Class Destroyer 3600 tonnes - No VLS
> 2. 052 Luhu Class Destroyer 4800 tonnes - No VLS
> 3. MEKO 360 3360 tonnes - 24 SAM VLS
> 4. Asagiri class Destroyer 3500 tonnes - No VLS
> 5. KDX-1 Okpo 3900 tonnes - 16 Sea Sparrow VLS
> 6. Hatakaze Class 4600 tonnes - No VLS
> 7. Hatsuyuki Class 3050 tonnes - No VLS
> 8. Kashin Class 4000 tonnes - No VLS
> 9. Murasame Class 4550 tonnes - No VLS
> 10. Takanami Class 4650 tonnes - No VLS
> 11. 054 A Class Frigate 4000 tonnes - 32 SAM VLS
> 12. Anzac Class Frigate 3600 tonnes - 8 cell MK-41 VLS
> 13. Brahmaputra Class Frigate 3850 tonnes - no VLS
> 14. Bandenburg Class Frigate 4900 tonnes - 16 SAM VLS, 2 RAM
> 15. Bremen Class Frigate 3680 tonnes - 16 SAM VLS, 2 RAM
> 16. Cassard CLass Frigate 4500 tonnes - No VLS
> 17. Formidable Class Frigate 3200 tonnes - 32 SAM VLS
> 18. etc (I'm tired to research)



These are mostly old (old!) ships you have listed here brother. 

I appreciate your spending the time for this research but VLS became common for destroyers only a decade or so ago. VLS for frigates is even newer. Eventually - as missiles get smaller and more sophisticated, even corvettes will get modular VLS tubes. Which is the wave of the future, as VLS tubes protect missile casings much better than having them sit on the superstructure.

Nowadays VLS is a MUST for all new build frigate designs, especially 4000 ton frigates which will be the lead ships for our mid-sized Navy. Like @The Ronin mentioned, China will offer her best technology for this 4000 ton frigate design. When I mentioned FREMM, I meant the overall design and features, not necessarily the size. We cannot exceed 4000 tons for our naval fight scenario which is the upper limit of draft for Bay of Bengal (BoB) Littoral areas.



Brainsucker said:


> Basically, almost non 3000 - 4000 tonnes warship has universal VLS. Even if there is, it has only a very limited amount of missile, like Anzac with only 8 universal VLS. So 054A is not a bad offer from the beginning after all. The 054B Frigate that still non existence even today even has more than 5000 tonnes because of the size that it has compared to 054A (search it in Chinese Defense Section, there is a comparison of size between 055, 054B and 054A. Basically 054B is way bigger than 054A).



Why are we bringing up frigate designs (Anzac Class) they started building in 1993 (some 25 years ago). What relevance does it have for warship design TODAY?

Nowadays almost all frigates come with a minimum of 16, sometimes 32 VLS tubes.

Whichever Chinese modified frigate design we get (based on our BoB naval protection and fight scenario and if Chinese offer is chosen) will be quite different than the corresponding PLAN design. Look at how Bangladesh Navy heavily modified the 056 corvette design toward C13B, for our own scenario and specs.

So if we want to customize ours with VLS tubes we will do it (there is more dynamic balancing stuff to take care of as well in the design because of this).



Brainsucker said:


> And for Type-730 CIWS as inspired by Russian? I beg to pardon, but which Russian CIWS that the 730 CIWS inspired from? I know AK630 CIWS and Kashtan, but they are way different to type-730. But I know that Type-730 is not kept only for PLAN as Indonesia has procure this weapon for our ship. And even the PLAN 054A standard use the bigger, and better CIWS than Type-730; Type 1130 CIWS. For AK630 CIWS that offered in Export Variant, it's actually a Russian design CIWS. If you think that it's bad, then tell Russian about that.



I stand corrected. However the Type 730 CIWS is not an original design anyway. It is a mishmash of the Dutch Goalkeeper and Two French systems, SAGEM's SAMOS and the Thomson-CSF's SATAN, which were offered for evaluation to China in the guise of a PLAN purchase many years ago.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_730_CIWS#Origin



Brainsucker said:


> I beg to pardon if you said that Type 054B radar / Avionic system is a pretty standard stuff, look again at the rear system. It is very similar to the 055 Destroyer radar / Avionic system. And don't tell me that 055 Destroyer's radar / avionic system is a standard stuff.
> 
> Maybe yes, standard stuff. But it is a standard stuff of the best system that western countries have today. Will they (Western countries) sell it to Bangladesh? Maybe. But also maybe not.



Money talks. And bullsh*t walks.

Any technology (however sophisticated) can be purchased, given enough money can be offered. I say '055 Destroyer's radar/avionic system (are) standard stuff' because almost all of China's radar/sensor designs are 'inspired by' far more sophisticated Western stuff from the likes of Hughes/RACAL/Ericsson, yes the 055 sensors also included in this group. 

The Chinese have set up technical institutes for this sort of research, but if you can conduct a few quick design shortcuts (using copying) in lieu of costly and time-consuming design, there is no issue for the Chinese. Morality will sometimes take a back seat when the stakes are this high. The Chinese are just leapfrogging progress, who can argue with that?

And finally yes - the West has far better 'stuff' than the 055 Destroyer's radars/sensors. More expensive, more reliable, just BETTER. Trust me on this. 

Bangladesh is not a rogue state flouting international law, it has been a respectable, responsible member of the international community (UN) since it's existence, supplying the largest number of troops to international peacekeeping efforts. It is a signatory to IAEA rules. The international status quo has NO reason to be displeased with Bangladesh (look at the recent Rohingya episode and how we handled it unlike how some brain-dead types would have handled it). 

So if the West can share sophisticated technology with Thailand for example, why not Bangladesh?



Brainsucker said:


> But I won't close the possibility that China will offer the 054B to Bangladesh. Because they have already have 052D and 055. So 054B won't be their best in today standard. Plus, they think Bangladesh as a friend. So selling one of the best stuffs is actually very possible to happen.
> 
> But the appearance of a 054B in Bangladesh Navy will throw the balance of power in the region, as Bangladesh will definitely outclass the Myanmar Navy capability.



I don't think Bangladesh having 054B's or mini-FREMMs will make a difference to anyone. It is a basic step.

Just buying a thoroughbred Arabian horse doesn't automatically make you a better rider or a 'race winner'.

A lot more in terms of skills and practice is needed.

And Bangladesh is surrounded by countries who have indigenous world-class frigate building skills. I don't even underestimate Kyan Sittha class fronted by Myanmar Navy. They have gone one better than us, at least on the surface.

But I guess not for long.

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## Brainsucker

Bilal9 said:


> These are mostly old (old!) ships you have listed here brother.
> 
> I appreciate your spending the time for this research but VLS became common for destroyers only a decade or so ago. VLS for frigates is even newer. Eventually - as missiles get smaller and more sophisticated, Even corvettes will get modular VLS tubes. Which is the wave of the future, as VLS tubes protect missile casings much better than having them sit on the superstructure.
> 
> Nowadays VLS is a MUST for all new build frigate designs, especially 4000 ton frigates which will be the lead ships for our mid-sized Navy. Like @The Ronin mentioned, China will offer her best technology for this 4000 ton frigate design. When I mentioned FREMM, I meant the overall design and features, not necessarily the size. We cannot exceed 4000 tons for our naval fight scenario which is the upper limit of draft for Bay of Bengal (BoB) Littoral areas.
> 
> Why are we bringing up frigate designs (Anzac Class) they started building in 1993 (some 25 years ago). What relevance does it have for warship design TODAY?
> 
> Whichever Chinese modified frigate design we get (based on our BoB naval protection and fight scenario and if Chinese offer is chosen) will be quite different than the corresponding PLAN design. Look at how Bangladesh Navy heavily modified the 056 corvette design toward C13B, for our own scenario and specs.
> 
> I stand corrected. However the Type 730 CIWS is not an original design anyway. It is a mishmash of the Dutch Goalkeeper and Two French systems, SAGEM's SAMOS and the Thomson-CSF's SATAN, which were offered for evaluation to China in the guise of a PLAN purchase many years ago.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_730_CIWS#Origin
> 
> Money talks. And bullsh*t walks.
> 
> Any technology (however sophisticated) can be purchased, given enough money can be offered. I say '055 Destroyer's radar/avionic system (are) standard stuff' because almost all of China's radar/sensor designs are 'inspired by' Western stuff from the likes of Hughes/RACAL/Ericsson products, yes the 055 sensors included. The Chinese have set up technical institutes for this sort of research, but if you can conduct a few shortcuts in lieu of costly and time-consuming design, there is no issue. Morality will sometimes take a back seat when the stakes are this high.
> 
> And yes - the West has far better 'stuff' than the 055 Destroyer's radars/sensors. More expensive, more reliable, just BETTER. Trust me on this.
> 
> Also - Bangladesh is not a rogue state flouting international law, it has been a respectable, responsible member of the international community (UN) since it's existence, supplying the largest number of troops to international peacekeeping efforts. It is a signatory to IAEA rules. The international status quo has NO reason to be displeased with Bangladesh (look at the recent Rohingya episode and how we handled it unlike how some brain-dead types would have handled it). If they can share these technology with Thailand for example, why not Bangladesh?
> 
> I don't think Bangladesh having 054B's or mini-FREMMs will make a difference to anyone. It is a basic step.
> 
> Just buying a thoroughbred Arabian horse doesn't automatically make you a better rider or a 'race winner'.
> 
> A lot more in terms of skills and practice is needed.
> 
> And Bangladesh is surrounded by countries who have indigenous world-class frigate building skills. I don't even underestimate Kyan Sittha class fronted by Myanmar Navy. They have gone one better than us, at least on the surface.
> 
> But I guess not for long.



Don't underestimated old design bro. Even if they are '80 design, they have teeth, and they bite.

About 055, no. Type 055 Destroyer is one of the best surface combatant in the world today. Comparable to even the best Destroyer in the world; like Arleigh Burke Flight 3. Even 052D is also very powerful and capable. But I agree that 054A and 052C are behind the Western today standard. Just browse to the Chinese Defense Section and ask about the 055 Destroyer there.

Are you kidding with having a FREMM, or other AAW Destroyer will make no different to anyone? Just a single modern AAW ship with AEGIS like configuration can deny the enemy Aircraft to take off from the airfield without being targeted by the ship, as long as her airfield is inside the ship's radar range. That show how powerful is an AEGIS like AAW ship.

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## The Ronin

idune said:


> If defense forces had not disclosed the news, *on what basis *you (punny propaganda paddler) and your partner in crime @UKBengali made the claim "*incoming Chinese Type-054B frigate"*?



This was actually a different thread under "Possible Chinese Offer For Bangladesh Frigate Program" before being merged with this thread.

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## idune

The Ronin said:


> *This was actually a different thread* under "Possible Chinese Offer For Bangladesh Frigate Program" before being merged with this thread.


Does not matter, 
*on what basis *you (punny propaganda paddler) and your partner in crime @UKBengali made the claim "*incoming Chinese Type-054B frigate"*?



The Eagle said:


> Similar threads merged in one place and name edited as feasible.
> 
> Note that hearsay, mere opinion from any defence forum outside PDF, be avoided to be treated as a credible source. It is advised to share only credible source based news & information.
> 
> Regards,



When your forum is flooded with pure bs from propaganda source you kept quiet and allowing it. What does it say about forum rule????


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## idune

The Ronin said:


> I did explain it to you and Brainsucker why Chinese design and ship are the most possible thing for BN's frigate program in previous thread. Why are you crying Admin??



@UKBengali made claim and he needs to give the proof for his claim.
You on the other hand, polluted the forum with bdmilitary.com propaganda which has no credibility or basis, period. Your "explanation" is more propaganda and no credible source.

I am asking @The Eagle to live upto forum rule what he is preaching and discard your propaganda galore.


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## The Ronin

idune said:


> @UKBengali made claim and he needs to give the proof for his claim.
> You on the other hand, polluted the forum with bdmilitary.com propaganda which has no credibility or basis, period. Your "explanation" is more propaganda and no credible source.
> 
> I am asking admin to live upto forum rule what he is preaching and discard your propaganda galore.



Which looks propaganda to you?? Everyone knows Type-54A has strong chance among all. Second chance For French Belharra, Dutch Sigma, Italian PPA this link below give us little proof.

http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/132616

And i am sharing article from a FB group not from any forum. So i didn't break any rule. Don't show your personal grudge against BD military to me.

If i can find every single details about those frigate which were offered in one article without even searching for day and night i don't see any problem. It's not like i am saying BN gonna buy a aircraft craft carrier. I am sticking with possible offer and report i can find without babbling, spamming and ranting like you. Don't pollute the discussion every time asking for proof and attacking people. It's not like we are taking Sita's "অগ্নি-পরীক্ষা" here.

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## BDforever

idune said:


> @UKBengali made claim and he needs to give the proof for his claim.
> You on the other hand, polluted the forum with bdmilitary.com propaganda which has no credibility or basis, period. Your "explanation" is more propaganda and no credible source.
> 
> I am asking @The Eagle to live upto forum rule what he is preaching and discard your propaganda galore.


@The Eagle please note this guy, never contributes in defence, only brings vulgar and political vomit in every thread.
please ban him

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## idune

BDforever said:


> @The Eagle please note this guy, never contributes in defence, only brings vulgar and political vomit in every thread.
> please ban him



@WebMaster needs to decide if he wants PDF to be bdmilitary.com propaganda mouthpiece and keep these polluter or keep his forum clean???


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## The Ronin

idune said:


> bdmilitary.com



First of all it's a website not a forum. Second thing is we can't even have access to the article unless we pay for it. So nice try, but gotta give you zero for the effort. And how can you call their news propaganda when their claim about french, italian and dutch offer came true??

http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/132616

If you think these are all propaganda why don't you make your own site and publish 100% "true" news with references from military officials. We will gladly share it and ditch BD Military.

But if you can't keep quiet, don't start ranting and derail the thread, keep the thread clear.

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## The Eagle

idune said:


> @WebMaster needs to decide if he wants PDF to be bdmilitary.com propaganda mouthpiece and keep these polluter or keep his forum clean???



http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/132616

Read this one as the member quoted above.

@The Ronin avoid posting any other forum discussion or article here.

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## BDforever

The Eagle said:


> @The Ronin avoid posting any other forum discussion or article here.


it is hard because most of the news come from unofficial sources with some military linkup as Bangladesh armed forces are bit conservative.

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## The Eagle

The Ronin said:


> I wasn't. I was sharing all those frigates related thread based on that link you mentioned. And btw which of my thread did you delete?? There wasn't any personal attack in any of my thread in this post AFAIK. WTH??!! @The Eagle. How come Idune's thread is still there after being reported when those are the one's actually personal attack and insults??



Not thread but posts that contains personal attacks are removed with a message to avoid as such. 

Rest about sharing from non-credible sources, avoid to rely upon xyz forum.



BDforever said:


> it is hard because most of the news come from unofficial sources with some military linkup as Bangladesh armed forces are bit conservative.



Then I believe that if a force wants to keep it undisclosed, such sources should not be relied upon. However, a source through news outlet is plausible and hearsay at FB or any other platform, is nothing but speculations which results in lost of interest in discussion or subject.

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## Russell

The Ronin said:


> I wasn't. I was sharing all those frigates related thread based on that link you mentioned. And btw which of my thread did you delete?? There wasn't any personal attack in any of my thread in this post AFAIK. WTH??!! @The Eagle. How come Idune's thread is still there after being reported when those are the one's actually personal attack and insults??


No prizes for guessing why....


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## The Eagle

The Ronin said:


> @The Eagle can you give me a hint or at least notify me which post was deleted like you did on my first strike. Cause after that i didn't even attack anyone and i am confident about it.



There were couple of posts from different threads that currently are merged here, of you along with other member that removed. May be, you get the notification lately but, those were totally unwanted and unnecessary.



Species said:


> These are just speculations of the Bdmilitary admin. There is no need to create new threads on mere speculations. These could be posted in the existing threads.
> 
> @waz @The Eagle I think it's time to have a sticky thread on the frigate program where all these discussions could be posted. We are getting new threads every other day on the same topic.



I have merged almost all similar subjects in this single & old/first thread.

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## BDforever

The Eagle said:


> Then I believe that if a force wants to keep it undisclosed, such sources should not be relied upon. However, a source through news outlet is plausible and hearsay at FB or any other platform, is nothing but speculations which results in lost of interest in discussion or subject.


not really, those sources news come true with more than 90% accuracy. I have been following BD armed forces' news for years and I know their credibility. I don't have any personal connection with those but my experience made me to believe them

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## The Eagle

BDforever said:


> not really, those sources news come true with more than 90% accuracy. I have been following BD armed forces' news for years and I know their credibility. I don't have any personal connection with those but my experience made me to believe them



Hence, the thread is moving ahead with that info too and not removed. However, a weak or non reliable source may result in removal/fraction. 

Carry on your discussion.

Regards,

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## UKBengali

idune said:


> @UKBengali made claim and he needs to give the proof for his claim.
> You on the other hand, polluted the forum with bdmilitary.com propaganda which has no credibility or basis, period. Your "explanation" is more propaganda and no credible source.
> 
> I am asking @The Eagle to live upto forum rule what he is preaching and discard your propaganda galore.[/Q



What claim did I make apart from Type-054B is "incoming"?
Did I say "incoming to BD"?
My post was to shut up @Nilgiri who was bragging about the upcoming P-17B class for IN.
Since the Type-54B is a potential contender for BD's frigate programme, it was pointed out
that the Type-054B is superior at least in anti-war than the Jewish-equipped P-17B. Man, those
Jews have screwed the Indians with the poor armament they have provided for a 1.25 billion dollar warship.

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## TopCat

UKBengali said:


> What claim did I make apart from Type-054B is "incoming"?
> Did I say "incoming" to BD?
> My post was to shut up @Nilgiri who was bragging about the upcoming P-17B class for IN.
> Since the Type-54B is a potential contender for BD's frigate programme, it was pointed out
> that the Type-054B is superior at least in anti-war than the Jewish-equipped P-17B. Man, those
> Jews have screwed the Indians with the poor armament they have provided for a 1.25 billion dollar warship.


Are these Indians out of their mind? They are dreaming to become a super power by buying stuffs from overseas that again for Israel.
If they really want to pursue that path they need to stop buying and start building.


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## The Ronin



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## SBUS-CXK

gslv mk3 said:


> It is not a cheap copy of any Russian carrier with steam propulsion...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, as if it's predecessor couldn't do anything for Bangladesh...


Wow, I think the cheap and inferior India warships will only be bomb, bomb, bomb..... Can India also make aircraft carriers? Recently the India aircraft carrier boiler did not explode?

How difficult the India warship is to make. Oh, I'm sorry. It's the assembly.













Is a backward agricultural country mocking the world's largest shipbuilding and exporter?

indian...Forgive your ignorance, after all, India is a illiterate country, far behind North Korea.

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## The Ronin



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## Species

Updates.

১ টা হেভি মেইনগান
১ টা হেভি CIWS
৩২ টা VLS SAM system
৮/১২ টা FL-3000N SHORAD system
৮ টি Anti-ship Missile
৪ টি Land Attack Cruise Missile (depends on situation)
৬ টা ASW Torpedo
১ টা ASW হেলিকপ্টার

এটা আমাদের আপকামিং Type-054B/Type-057 ফ্রিগেট।

২০২০ এর মধ্যে আশা করা যায় আমাদের সমুদ্রসীমায় রাজত্ব প্রতিষ্ঠা করবে এবং ভারতের শিভালিকের পর দক্ষিন এশিয়ার সেরা ফ্রিগেট হবে।

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## gslv mk3

Two said:


> Can India also make aircraft carriers? Recently the India aircraft carrier boiler did not explode?



Moron, Indian made AC has GT propulsion, and doesn't have boilers.

Only if you weren't so dumb.

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## Tanveer666

gslv mk3 said:


> Moron, Indian made AC has *GT* propulsion, and doesn't have boilers.
> 
> Only if you weren't so dumb.



What is GT propulsion?


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## gslv mk3

Tanveer666 said:


> What is GT propulsion?



Gas Turbine.


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## monitor

Bangladesh navy frigate concept by active BN members. Bangladesh will get 8 frigate of Chinese design heavily influence by European frigate. Each costing 400 million dollars.
Contact probably sign in 6 April .

Credit : bdmilitary

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## Bilal9

Tanveer666 said:


> What is GT propulsion?



GT means Gas Turbine.

The *General Electric LM2500* is an industrial and marine gas turbine produced by GE Aviation. The LM2500 is a derivative of the General Electric CF6 aircraft engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Electric_LM2500

The Pakistani OHP class frigates, the Indian Shivalik class frigates use GE LM2500 marine GT engines.

Our Samudra Joy (Hamilton) class frigates use Pratt and Whitney Marine GT engines.

In England, Rolls Royce also make aero gas-turbine derivative marine engines.

Basically these are jet engines put into ships and the shafts massively geared down to drive propellers for ships.

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## Tanveer666

monitor said:


> View attachment 461178
> 
> Bangladesh navy frigate concept by active BN members. Bangladesh will get 8 frigate of Chinese design heavily influence by European frigate. Each costing 400 million dollars.
> Contact probably sign in 6 April .
> 
> Credit : bdmilitary



I thought we were going for 6 European frigates.


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## The Ronin

China publiclised the Bangladesh Navy's new frigate at a hardware expo in Russia. Its very clear BN opted for a stealthier version of the Type 054 which shares similarities with its Shadhinota class guided missile corvettes.

This is a very good design IMO. We know BN opted for a modernised Type 054 but up until the public release of the model it was not confirmed to the Internet audience.

#BD Military.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> China publiclised the Bangladesh Navy's new frigate at a hardware expo in Russia. Its very clear BN opted for a stealthier version of the Type 054 which shares similarities with its Shadhinota class guided missile corvettes.
> 
> This is a very good design IMO. We know BN opted for a modernised Type 054 but up until the public release of the model it was not confirmed to the Internet audience.
> 
> #BD Military.



This is a heavily modernized version of the 054A (kind of a combination between the French Lafayette Frigate design and the 054A, see below). I like the traditional hull of the 054A, better than the faceted hull of the Lafayette class.

The masts are all integrated now and the forecastle has been cleaned up for stealth effect. Main gun up front could be changed to a enclosed streamlined folding mount, Oto Melara offers such a package.

I like the clean minimalist design ! 

054A





Lafayette class

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## LKJ86

Type 054A

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## The Ronin

Bilal9 said:


> This is a heavily modernized version of the 054A



Nope, upgraded version of C-28A corvette. 

http://gogonews.cc/article/4723986.html

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## KapitaanAli

The Ronin said:


> China publiclised the Bangladesh Navy's new frigate at a hardware expo in Russia. Its very clear BN opted for a stealthier version of the Type 054 which shares similarities with its Shadhinota class guided missile corvettes.
> 
> This is a very good design IMO. We know BN opted for a modernised Type 054 but up until the public release of the model it was not confirmed to the Internet audience.
> 
> #BD Military.


CSSC did show the usual 4000 ton frigate based on the 054A, but it's this one:





The other model is a light frigate.

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## LKJ86

The Ronin said:


> Nope, upgraded version of C-28A corvette.
> 
> http://gogonews.cc/article/4723986.html


C-28A

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## The Ronin

KapitaanAli said:


> CSSC did show the usual 4000 ton frigate based on the 054A, but it's this one:
> View attachment 495898
> 
> 
> The other model is a light frigate.



Yeah, that's what something BN wants. Don't think that other design is for us.



Bilal9 said:


> kind of a combination between the French Lafayette Friagte design and 054A, see below). I like the traditional hull of the 054A, better than the faceted hull of the Lafayette class.



Now i understand why the bridge looks familiar.

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## Bilal9

The Ronin said:


> China publiclised the Bangladesh Navy's new frigate at a hardware expo in Russia. Its very clear BN opted for a stealthier version of the Type 054 which shares similarities with its Shadhinota class guided missile corvettes.
> 
> This is a very good design IMO. We know BN opted for a modernised Type 054 but up until the public release of the model it was not confirmed to the Internet audience.
> 
> #BD Military.



I guess some of the article the image contains is not as relevant, but here it is translated (and lightly edited),

*What is the scene of selling Chinese ships at home in Russia?*

2018-08-30 23:15:17
China National Shipbuilding Industry Corporation and other Chinese companies participated in the exhibition at the recent "Army-2018" International Military Technology Forum held in Russia, exhibiting 1,500-ton light frigates, 3,000-ton frigates, 4,000-ton frigates and MRTV3000 trimaran. In addition to the frigate model, a variety of ship models were displayed, such as the trimaran frigate and the model of the 22,000-ton landing ship and the 55-meter double-body wave-piercing missile catamaran.

Unfortunately, Yang Aihong did not find clear pictures of these models at the time, so it is difficult to analyze the ships themselves. Fortunately, today, Weibo user @Richard-Yip released a series of photos taken at the exhibition. There is a clear picture of these models! Yang Aihong will come to talk about these models.





1500-ton frigate

Obviously, the prototype is a Type 056 light frigate (this is similar to our C13B corvette - Bilal's note). This is a modified version of the Type 056 light frigate which has seen great export performance. Its design emphasizes economy and comfort, and its firepower is moderate. It is suitable for patrol, air, sea, land and submarine. Anti-submarine and other low-intensity combat missions are completely different from the design ideas of the Russian Navy's light-duty warships and the "boats and cannons".





3000-ton frigate

This appears to be the same exact model of the C28A light frigate as exported to the Algerian Navy. This type of ship does not have a corresponding self-use version in the Chinese Navy, and is purely designed for foreign users. In the Algerian Navy, the C28A light frigate is positioned as a second-class auxiliary ship for use with the primary MEKO series of German frigates, which is quite different from the needs of the Russian Navy.





New frigate

From the perspective of no chimneys and other features, this should be an upgraded version of the C28A light frigate (the C28A frigate uses a chimney-free design, and the exhaust of the main engine and auxiliary engines is exhausted by the exhaust vent near the waterline). Compared with the C28A, its superstructure emphasizes stealth, and its weapon configuration upgrades two CIWS guns on the hangar (two sets of fire control systems are shared by two to replace one set of independent fire control systems) ), and the 8-unit short-range anti-aircraft missile launcher of the B-gun is changed to the 32-unit missile vertical launch system (VLS), and the radar electronic device has also been upgraded accordingly, and the combat power has made a qualitative leap.

If the Russian Navy's "caliber" series of cruise missiles and other weapons are compatible, the ship is more in line with the needs of the Russian Navy - but the Russian ship industry itself has the same type of products...





MRTV-3000 trimaran frigate

The appearance is very avant-garde, but this design's performance is questionable. Thanks to the overall characteristics of the trimaran, it can afford a wide helicopter landing deck and a huge hangar, and the aviation support conditions are top-notch, but unfortunately this is not what the Russian Navy values most currently...





55m wave-piercer Catamaran missile boat

It features excellent concealment (stealth) and can play a small role in specific battlefield conditions. The Iranian navy may be interested. (Bilal's note: This is a modification of the Type 22 or NATO designation 'Houbei class' which the PLAN uses - over 80 are in the PLAN fleet currently. Builder is Hudong-Zhonghua Shipyard at Shanghai. These boats features catamaran hulls that are more stable than other fast missile craft in high sea conditions.)










Two heavyweight models: 054AE frigate and 22,000 ton dock landing ship

The 054AE frigate on the right, I believe many readers and friends will not be unfamiliar with - the same as the many 054A frigates that the Chinese Navy fields, and often appear in news reports and various publications, Yang Aihong will not repeat the description here. In any case, the Russian Navy has put a whole set of destroyer level regional air defense equipment on the "Gorshkov" class frigate at the same tonnage level...so....

The model of the 22,000-ton landing ship on the left is already a frequent visitor to various international maritime exhibitions. It should also be one of the most important ship of concern to the Russian Navy: since the introduction of the French “Mistral” class amphibious ship project being built for Russia fell through some years ago, the Russian Navy has been working hard to find such a large amphibious warship with a full-fledged flight deck, hangar and docking bay. The design of the type of ship itself is quite satisfactory, and it is not difficult to make customized modifications to the hangars and lifts of helicopters equipped by the Russian Navy. As for whether business can be negotiated, depends on the sincerity of the Russian side.










"Kylin/Kirin" class conventional power submarine

The submarine exhibits from CSIC (the surface ships are basically exhibits of the CSSC industry). This type of submarine has already received orders from the Pakistan Navy and is one of the highest-ranking submarine vessels currently exported by China. However, friends who have even a minimum understanding of the current state of the world's navies know that Russia still has the world's top submarine design production capacity...

In general, except for the 22,000-ton shipyard landing ship, most of the Chinese ships participating in the ship are unlikely to get orders from the Russian Navy. However, the participating countries of the "Military-2018" International Military Technology Forum can be more than two Chinese and Russian. There are still many countries in the world that need to update and upgrade their navies. I believe their participants will not ignore the booths of Chinese companies' exhibits.

As a responsible country that strives to maintain peace in the world and in the region, China has always taken serious considerations on arms exports, especially advanced naval vessels. In a sense, exporting these ships means exporting peace; China believes it should make greater contributions to world peace in this manner.

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## The Ronin

Indigenous frigate program latest update

Bangladesh Navy is not proceeding with a contract for design and material package from China to build frigates at its Chittagong shipyard. The Chinese designs is not compatible for integrating with the Western fire control systems and some exclusive weaponry BN wanted to integrate in to the warships.

Instead the Bangladesh Navy will release a new tender within the year for a frigate design. Now the design will be open to all countries. Even India has shown interest in partnering with the Bangladesh Navy for the frigate program.

We understand that ultimately the contract would go to a European shipbuilder for design and material package.

#BDMilitary.com

বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনী চট্টগ্রামে অবস্থিত Chittagong Dry Dock Limited (CDDL) এ চীনের সহায়তায় মোট ৬ টি হেভি ফ্রিগেট বানানোর সিদ্ধান্ত নিয়েছিলো যার কাজ ২০১৮ এর শেষ দিকে শুরু হবার কথা ছিলো।সবকিছু ঠিক থাকলে এই বছরের শেষ দিকে পুরোপুরিভাবে ফ্রিগেট নির্মান শুরু হবার কথা থাকলেও চীনের টালবাহানায় ফ্রিগেট বানানো বেশ পেছাচ্ছে।

তবে আশার কথা বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনী খুব সম্ভবত এবার alternative way এর দিকে যাবে।অর্থাৎ নতুন পার্টনারের সাথে ডিজাইন,ইলেক্ট্রনিক্স এবং অন্যান্য সরঞ্জাম কেনার চুক্তি হতে পারে যার ফলে চীনের সাথে ফ্রিগেট নির্মানের কথা থাকলেও সেটি আর না ও হতে পারে।

উল্লেখ্য যে বিশ্বের বেশ কয়েকটি শিপবিল্ডিং কোম্পানি CDDL এর সাথে ফ্রিগেট নির্মানের ব্যাপারে একসাথে কাজ করার আগ্রহ দেখিয়েছে।কোম্পানিগুলোর নামের লিস্ট আর অরিজিন দেশগুলোর নাম দেয়া হলো-

>STX (France)
>CSOC (China)
>Fincantieri (Italy)
>Damen Shipyard (Netherlands)
>Daweoo Shipyard (South Korea)
>Reliance Defense (India)

এছাড়া আপকামিং গাইডেড মিসাইল ফ্রিগেটের টেন্ডারও Open থাকবে অর্থাৎ উপরের কোম্পানিগুলো এই টেন্ডারে অংশ নিয়ে নিজেদের প্রোডাক্ট প্রদর্শন করতে পারবে।

তবে খুব সম্ভবত বাংলাদেশ নৌবাহিনীর জন্য দক্ষিন কোরিয়ান Daweoo Shipyard এর নির্মিত Daegu Class (DW-3000F) হেভি ফ্রিগেটের সম্ভাবনা তুলনামূলক বেশি বলে ধারনা করা হচ্ছে।

#DTB

The official document of "Bangladesh Navy Magazine" where navy mentioned some of the companies who has expressed their interest on Indigenous frigate program of Bangladesh Navy.

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## KapitaanAli

Indian made frigates are >6000 tons.
Indian Kamorta corvettes are of frigate size, but specialised for anti-submarine. But it has a lot of extra space for weapons.

Considering the West is averse to their weapons on Russian ships, Kamorta is probably the best bet. It's expensive for a corvette, but not for a frigate.


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## The Ronin

Buying frigate from potential enemy is a suicidal decision. Shouldn't even let them enter our defense market in the first place.

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## UKBengali

KapitaanAli said:


> Indian made frigates are >6000 tons.
> Indian Kamorta corvettes are of frigate size, but specialised for anti-submarine. But it has a lot of extra space for weapons.
> 
> Considering the West is averse to their weapons on Russian ships, Kamorta is probably the best bet. It's expensive for a corvette, but not for a frigate.



Relax BD will never order any frigate from India as too much of the components would need to come from the West anyway. Also your tech is just not good enough.

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## KapitaanAli

UKBengali said:


> Relax BD will never order any frigate from India as too much of the components would need to come from the West anyway. Also your tech is just not good enough.


10% will come from the West. Strategically you should buy from China. But seems that's not good enough.

Can't wait for shiny western frigates in the Bay.


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## UKBengali

KapitaanAli said:


> 10% will come from the West. Strategically you should buy from China. But seems that's not good enough.
> 
> Can't wait for shiny western frigates in the Bay.



India is BD military's only threat and it trains to fight it and so Indian arms are a no go.

Like I say Kamorta class is not the type of frigate that BN wants.


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## SBUS-CXK

KapitaanAli said:


> Indian made frigates are >6000 tons.
> Indian Kamorta corvettes are of frigate size, but specialised for anti-submarine. But it has a lot of extra space for weapons.
> 
> Considering the West is averse to their weapons on Russian ships, Kamorta is probably the best bet. It's expensive for a corvette, but not for a frigate.





KapitaanAli said:


> 10% will come from the West. Strategically you should buy from China. But seems that's not good enough.
> 
> Can't wait for shiny western frigates in the Bay.


Taking into account the india industry level.
How many warships are make in India a year?


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## KapitaanAli

Two said:


> Taking into account the india industry level.
> How many warships are make in India a year?


An unimpressive amount compared to China. Not there yet. Capable of exporting only corvette sized OPVs as of now.

My post was regarding BD Navy wanting non-Chinese equipment on-board, according to the article.
Even taking into account the different approaches, that's India going for bigger ships (in each class) and small numbers to China's normal ships and large numbers, India is far behind. But surely a major player ship industry wise. How many are there capable of making carrier standard steel..

Anyway, last post on the topic.

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## Bilal9

KapitaanAli said:


> Indian made frigates are >6000 tons.
> Indian Kamorta corvettes are of frigate size, but specialised for anti-submarine. But it has a lot of extra space for weapons.
> 
> Considering the West is averse to their weapons on Russian ships, Kamorta is probably the best bet. It's expensive for a corvette, but not for a frigate.



With all due respect Sir, you are wasting your breath...

Not happening. In anyone's lifetime....

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## TopCat

KapitaanAli said:


> An unimpressive amount compared to China. Not there yet. Capable of exporting only corvette sized OPVs as of now.
> 
> My post was regarding BD Navy wanting non-Chinese equipment on-board, according to the article.
> Even taking into account the different approaches, that's India going for bigger ships (in each class) and small numbers to China's normal ships and large numbers, India is far behind. But surely a major player ship industry wise. How many are there capable of making carrier standard steel..
> 
> Anyway, last post on the topic.


Burmese love big boat with lots of free space in them for Sepak takraw match while doodling in the shallow water.
You should try your luck there. @Aung Zaya


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## gslv mk3

UKBengali said:


> Also your tech is just not good enough.



Says someone from a country which operates second hand 1970s era 'frigates'...

Weed consumption among British Bangladeshis looks like a topic for research.


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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Says someone from a country which operates second hand 1970s era 'frigates'...



You don't need to have latest brand new frigates to comment on naval technology.

India itself doesn't trust its own substandard technology as proven by its import of frigates from Russia, how do you expect others to rely on your technology?


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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> India itself doesn't trust its own substandard technology as proven by its import of frigates from Russia



Doofus, we are building seven 7000 tonne Project 17A frigates ourselves. Which is comparable to many destroyers in armament & sensors.






And we export warships.

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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Which is comparable to many destroyers in armament & sensors.



Says who? A wannabe martial Indian troll?

A Burmese member could jump in and comment "our Kyan Sittha-class frigate is comparable to many frigates in armament & sensors", would India cancel the Russian ones and buy them instead?

Not to mention the level of indigenization of Indian naval products itself is not high.

PS: Don't post those pics of Indian ships, they are eyesores.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> Says who?



Anyone with a bit of knowledge about these would tell you that. Though deluded Bangladeshi trolls (who makes ridiculous claims like Walton having Asia's biggest R&D center or Bangladesh having more cars than India) would think otherwise.

Project 17A Frigates come with *almost the same weapon/sensor fit as Kolkata class destroyer*, which is impressive for a frigate.



Species said:


> Not to mention the level of indigenization of Indian naval products itself is not high.



Says someone from a country which cannot produce steel plates for merchant ships. 

We can make a light frigate class ship with almost entirely Indian weapon/sensor fit- Radars, Sonars, missiles, CMS included. A Naval SAM would also come soon.



Species said:


> A Burmese member could jump in and comment "our Kyan Sittha-class frigate is comparable to many frigates in armament & sensors", would India cancel the Russian ones and buy them instead?



Read what I wrote carefully idiot, I said P17A is comparable to many destroyers, not frigates.

Kyan Sittha-class frigate is way more advanced than any naval vessel Bangladesh have ever made.



Species said:


> Don't post those pics of Indian ships, they are eyesores.



Don't worry, I am only going to post pics of those good looking Bangladeshi corvette's/frigates.

Oops sorry, they don't exist !!!



Species said:


> A wannabe martial Indian troll?



Quite rich, coming from a Bangladeshi... Effeminate bunch who needed Indians to save their asses...after 3 million of their own have been slaughtered.

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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Anyone with a bit of knowledge about these would tell you that. Though deluded Bangladeshi trolls (who makes ridiculous claims like Walton having Asia's biggest R&D center or Bangladesh having more cars than India) would think otherwise.
> 
> Project 17A Frigates come with *almost the same weapon/sensor fit as Kolkata class destroyer*, which is impressive for a frigate.
> 
> 
> 
> Says someone from a country which cannot produce steel plates for merchant ships.
> 
> We can make a light frigate class ship with almost entirely Indian weapon/sensor fit- Radars, Sonars, missiles, CMS included. A Naval SAM would also come soon.
> 
> 
> 
> Read what I wrote carefully idiot, I said P17A is comparable to many destroyers, not frigates.
> 
> Kyan Sittha-class frigate is way more advanced than any naval vessel Bangladesh have ever made.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't worry, I am only going to post pics of those good looking Bangladeshi corvette's/frigates.
> 
> Oops sorry, they don't exist !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Quite rich, coming from a Bangladeshi... Effeminate bunch who needed Indians to save their asses...after 3 million of their own have been slaughtered.



So as always you have just posted tons of girly chit-chat but failed to answer why India is buying Russian frigates if it has a good-enough technology.

Just proves my point of the sub-standard quality of Indian products.

Most of the Indian industries thrive on different tariffs and non-tariff barriers in trade. Defence industry, however, can't get away with it.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> So as always you have just posted tons of girly chit-chat but failed to answer why India is buying Russian frigates if it has a good-enough technology.
> 
> Just proves my point of the sub-standard quality of Indian products.



Of course you can expect Idiots (you know, of the Walton-R&D-largest-in-Asia kind) to come up with illogical conclusions... I seriously regret wasting time for an idiot.

Talwars are not capable as P17A but are cheaper to procure & operate than a pseudo-destroyer.

Also there is the fact that that two of the hulls were already in advanced stage of construction & IN operates 6 vessels of that type.



Species said:


> Most of the Indian industries thrive on different tariffs and non-tariff barriers in trade. Defence industry, however, can't get away with it.



Comparing RMG exports to defense now ?  highly intelligent.

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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Talwars are not capable as P17A but are cheaper to procure & operate than a pseudo-destroyer.



So? You can put a ICBM on a floating steel sheet and claim it be the most capable naval vessel ever but that doesn't make it an 'effective' vessel.

You are still spending billions of dollars on import of naval vessels, that's enough to justify Indian products and technology are far from reliable.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> So? You can put a ICBM on a floating steel sheet and claim it be the most capable naval vessel ever but that doesn't make it an 'effective' vessel.



That's the kind of reply I expect from a Walton-R&D-largest-in-Asia kind of idiot. 

And BTW retard, *a country capable of developing an ICBM on it's own would be capable of building it's own naval vessels.*

The capability (including the weapons & the sensors) of Kolkata/ Vizag/ P17A is out there for everyone to see.

It's not ''BD will get 6000 tonne frigate with 64 VLS'' kind of daydreams.

And anyone with a working internet connection can work out the cost of each project.

Talwar ~500 million per ship https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/india-clears-way-for-2-2-billion-frigates-deal-with-russia/amp_articleshow/65835654.cms

P17A- ~$1 billion per ship

https://www.dnaindia.com/business/r...o-deliver-kavaratti-to-navy-next-year-2663959



Species said:


> You are still spending billions of dollars on import of naval vessels, that's enough to justify Indian products and technology are far from reliable.



'"Indians maybe spending billions building an aircraft carrier, 4 DDGs, 7 FFGs, 3 SSBNs, 6 SSNs & a missile instrumentation ship on their own, but their technology is far from reliable"... 

Typical of anyone from a 2 patent per year LDC.

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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> That's the kind of reply I expect from a Walton-R&D-largest-in-Asia kind of idiot.
> 
> And BTW retard, *a country capable of developing an ICBM on it's own would be capable of building it's own naval vessels.*
> 
> The capability (including the weapons & the sensors) of Kolkata/ Vizag/ P17A is out there for everyone to see.
> 
> It's not ''BD will get 6000 tonne frigate with 64 VLS'' kind of daydreams.
> 
> 
> 
> '"Indians maybe spending billions building an aircraft carrier, 4 DDGs, 7 FFGs, 3 SSBNs, 6 SSNs & a missile instrumentation ship on their own, but their technology is far from reliable"...
> 
> Typical of anyone from a 2 patent per year LDC.



So other than self-defining name-calling, off-topic remarks, you haven't posted a single logical answer as to why India still spends billions of dollars on import of defence technology and products if it claims its products to be of sufficient quality. 

The fact remains, Indian military is still largely a user of imported technology and products. Since, India still relies on import, it's only natural its products are of inferior quality and will be ignored by foreign customers.

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## gslv mk3

Species said:


> you haven't posted a single logical answer



Why India bought 4 Talwar class have been elaborated in post #604. It's not my fault if your feeble brain cannot comprehend it.

And if you think Indian Navy buying 4X Talwar class for $2 billion (while concurrently spending $12 billion for 11 Frigates/Destroyers built in Indian yards) indicates some sort of 'unreliability, that's just your delusion.



Species said:


> Since, India still relies on import



We are making our own warships, strategic & tactical missiles, Radars, Sonars, EW systems, helicopters, torpedos, military combat/logistics/engineering vehicles & artillery. Which have all won orders worth billions.

We have access to foreign weapon systems (excluding strategic stuff) & is not exactly limited by a small budget budget unlike some LDC.

So basically the quality & capability of Indian weapon systems can be assessed when Indian military places orders worth billions for them despite that.

BTW our Sonars & torpedoes arm Myanmar's frigates... Don't cry about it though.

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## Bilal9

Species said:


> So other than self-defining name-calling, off-topic remarks, you haven't posted a single logical answer as to why India still spends billions of dollars on import of defence technology and products if it claims its products to be of sufficient quality.
> 
> The fact remains, Indian military is still largely a user of imported technology and products. Since, India still relies on import, it's only natural its products are of inferior quality and will be ignored by foreign customers.



@Species bhai - I salute you for keeping your sharafat, decency and demeanor upright in your replies to this troll. Their aukat is clearly visible in their abusive remarks and lack of logic and proof.



Species said:


> PS: Don't post those pics of Indian ships, they are eyesores.



So true! 

Ugliest (and dated) design compared to Western ones, even those fielded by Singaporean and Malaysian navies...

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## Flynn Swagmire

Bilal9 said:


> Ugliest (and dated) design compared to Western ones, even those fielded by Singaporean and Malaysian navies...


Indian ship designs might not be as polished looking as western ship designs. But, they do fulfill Indian requirements...


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## Bilal9

Species said:


> You don't need to have latest brand new frigates to comment on naval technology.
> 
> India itself doesn't trust its own substandard technology as proven by its import of frigates from Russia, how do you expect others to rely on your technology?



Bhai look at the Admiral Grigorovich design which is an improved Krivak III design. And look at the discounted Indian crap with slapped on overpriced Israeli sensors that the troll posted earlier. They all use the same identical hulls. So much for 'designed in Endeya'. The whole structure is Russian designed.

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## gslv mk3

Bilal9 said:


> Bhai look at the Admiral Grigorovich design which is an improved Krivak III design. And look at the discounted Indian crap with slapped on overpriced Israeli sensors that the troll posted earlier. They all use the same identical hulls. So much for 'designed in Endeya'. The whole structure is Russian designed.



Still repeating the same lies ??  @Nilgiri

P17 basic design *was completed in 1994.*

Deal for modification & construction of Krivak III class as Talwar class for Indian navy *was signed only in 1997.*

So how did Indian naval designers copy a vessel which was not even designed in 1994 ?

And identical hulls ???  Hmm, let's see.

*Shivalik Class*

Length: 142.5 m (468 ft)
Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)

*Talwar class*

Length: 124.8 m (409 ft 5 in)
Beam: 15.2 m (49 ft 10 in)
Draught: 4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)

They look absolutely identical...  See..

Krivak class










Shivalik Class













Bilal9 said:


> And look at the discounted Indian crap



Look who is an Indian stealth frigate crap, someone from a country which operates second hand USCGS cutters & 1970's Chinese corvette's as 'frigates'.

It'll take you two decades to acquire, let alone build something like that.



Bilal9 said:


> Ugliest (and dated) design compared to Western ones, even those fielded by Singaporean and Malaysian navies...



Indian designs are so ugly & dated, just like how all those Bajaj motorcycles are ugly & dated compared to modern 'Baalton' motorcycle designs. 

See...how ugly & dated Indian destroyers are.






Compared with modern Bangladeshi design...oops Chinese design.. It might even win some beauty pageant.








Bilal9 said:


> lack of logic and proof.



Repeating ''Indian ships are unreliable'' like a broken record is called logic.

Just like how your claims of Bangladeshis buying better cars than India (when the total number of cars sold annually in ''BD is just 20,000) are logical.

Does the word logic have any different meaning in that swampland of yours ?

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## Species

Bilal9 said:


> Bhai look at the Admiral Grigorovich design which is an improved Krivak III design. And look at the discounted Indian crap with slapped on overpriced Israeli sensors that the troll posted earlier. They all use the same identical hulls. So much for 'designed in Endeya'. The whole structure is Russian designed.



It's known to all the level indigenization of Indian defence equipment is extremely low no matter what they claim. Hence, their products come with enough strings attached because of the borrowed technology they use.

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## BanglarBagh

gslv mk3 said:


> Still repeating the same lies ??  @Nilgiri
> 
> P17 basic design *was completed in 1994.*
> 
> Deal for modification & construction of Krivak III class as Talwar class for Indian navy *was signed only in 1997.*
> 
> So how did Indian naval designers copy a vessel which was not even designed in 1994 ?
> 
> And identical hulls ???  Hmm, let's see.
> 
> *Shivalik Class*
> 
> Length: 142.5 m (468 ft)
> Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)
> Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)
> 
> *Talwar class*
> 
> Length: 124.8 m (409 ft 5 in)
> Beam: 15.2 m (49 ft 10 in)
> Draught: 4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)
> 
> They look absolutely identical...  See..
> 
> Krivak class
> 
> View attachment 503839
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Shivalik Class
> 
> View attachment 503851
> 
> 
> View attachment 503840
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look who is an Indian stealth frigate crap, someone from a country which operates second hand USCGS cutters & 1970's Chinese corvette's as 'frigates'.
> 
> It'll take you two decades to acquire, let alone build something like that.
> 
> 
> 
> Indian designs are so ugly & dated, just like how all those Bajaj motorcycles are ugly & dated compared to modern 'Baalton' motorcycle designs.
> 
> See...how ugly & dated Indian destroyers are.
> 
> View attachment 503842
> 
> 
> Compared with modern Bangladeshi design...oops Chinese design.. It might even win some beauty pageant.
> 
> View attachment 503843
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Repeating ''Indian ships are unreliable'' like a broken record is called logic.
> 
> Just like how your claims of Bangladeshis buying better cars than India (when the total number of cars sold annually in ''BD is just 20,000) are logical.
> 
> Does the word logic have any different meaning in that swampland of yours ?




Talwar Class is a modified Krivak so Russian design and accessories. Which is the indegenised part in this frigate?

Shivalik Class pride of make in India projects and yet,
Powerplant: Pielstick 16 PA6 STC(French), GE LM2500(USA)
Armament: Barak1 SAM(Israeli), Shtil-1(Russian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub']Klub(Russian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos']BrahMos(Russian onix copy assembled by India), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oto_Melara_76_mm']OTO Melara 76 mm(Italian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630']AK-630(Russian), DTA-53-956(Russian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBU-6000']RBU-6000 (RPK-8)(Russian).[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

The level of indegenisation amazes me unless you consider all those countries far away states of India. And for Brahmos you would argue it's a joint venture between Russia and India so it qualifies as a indegenised platform. Then again you guys mock Pakistan for JF-17 since it's a joint venture hence not indegenised enough. Get the point?
Anyway the topic was I guess why BD doesn't look to India for it's frigate program. The answer is given in the contents of my post. Even after that if you argue India has the best tech to offer BN then that just means India will play the middle man (aka dalal) to get those foreign tech for BN. The answer is no thank you if we decide to get them we will get them directly from the manufacturer not from a dalal.

Thank you!!!

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## gslv mk3

BanglarBagh said:


> Talwar Class is a modified Krivak so Russian design and accessories. Which is the indegenised part in this frigate?



Yes, Indian naval designers used a time machine in 1994-95 to go to the future & copy the design of a Russian frigate which was designed after 1997. 

And even then, the hull-form is different from the Talwar...

Can't expect better logic from 2-USPTO-
patent- a-year LDC folks.

Here is an excerpt from the *official history of Indian Navy, written by Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani*. He quotes *Rear Admiral Vaidyanathan, Project Director for P17 Frigate*.

_"At the same time, the design team set to work on developing the sleek lines of the new hull form. While a new BMT software became available sometime later for the hull lines, much work had already been progressed by then, using the naval architect’s traditional battens and lead weights, to evolve the lines of Project 17. Even though this old and traditional method was moving towards extinction with the birth of the Project 17 hull form, it did give that drawing board flexibility to tweak the lines using the drawing office expertise still available for this kind of specialist design work. The concept design options were presented to the naval staff in the first quarter of 1994 and were approved within few days.
_
*Model Tests. *
_
Having developed the hull form and preliminary propeller design, hydrodynamic model tests were ordered at the Netherlands model test basin-MARIN.

In a slight departure from earlier designs, a conscious decision was made in the very beginng into give a relatively sharp turn to the hull sections around the bilge for improved roll damping and have a generally flared hull form for increased stealth and high water plane area for good sea keeping. *The model tests of the new hull form began in July 1995*. As the project officer of P17, I was deputed to MARIN to participate in the tests and refined the appendages design based on test results. The model tests showed excellent hull performance. The powering results were within 2½% of DND’s predictions.

The resistance of the appendages was the lowest that one could achieve owing to the designed shaft line with lol rake and the flow adapted orientation of the shaft brackets. The sea keeping performance was seen to be exceptionally good meeting the stringent performance envisaged in the Staff Requirements. The roll performance was also exceptionally good and even better compared to some previous larger designs."
_
From "Transition to Guardianship-The Indian Navy 1991–2000" (2009)

But we should believe some butt-hurt Bangladeshi troll than the very project director of P17 frigate program @Nilgiri....



BanglarBagh said:


> Shivalik Class pride of make in India projects and yet



I would say that is Project 15A/B destroyers.

Maybe you didn't knew that Shivalik Class has been superseded by Next gen P17A with following systems.

Sensors and processing systems:

IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR S-band AESA multi-function radar (*being localised by BEL*)

Unknown VSR (BEL-SAAB JV maybe)

BEL HUMSA-NG bow sonar (*indigenous*)

BEL EMCCA combat management system (*indigenous*)
Electronic warfare
& decoys:

BEL Ajanta EW Suite (*indigenous*)

NSTL Maareech ATDS (*indigenous*)

Kavach chaff decoy system (*indigenous*)
Armament:

4 × 8-cell VLS, for a total of 32 Barak 8 missiles (*Joint Venture*)

1 × 8-cell UVLM for 8 BrahMos missiles (*Joint Venture*)

1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM (*produced at BHEL Haridwar*)

2 × AK-630 CIWS (*made at OFB*)

4 × 533 mm Torpedo tubes (*indigenous, made by L&T* firing Indigenous torpedos)

2 × IRL anti-submarine rocket launchers (*localised, made by L&T*)
And more of it is coming... Including Desi equivalent of VL-ASROC.

Shivalik uses licence produced SEMT Pielstick designs (Kirloskar) .So does Chinese Type 054A.

Similar story with the 76 mm gun with Chinese & Indian frigates.

What's the difference here ?



BanglarBagh said:


> Even after that if you argue India has the best tech to offer BN then that just means India will play the middle man (aka dalal) to get those foreign tech for BN.



This is a Korean frigate your navy uses, tell me about the Korean designed weapon/sensor systems used here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNS_Bangabandhu

We are have already exported 105 metre long OPV, 2300 tonne Offshore Patrol Vessel to Sri Lanka.






http://www.colombopage.com/archive_18A/Mar26_1522077053CH.php

And we are competing for global naval tenders with our designs.

*GRSE unveils design proposal for Brazilian corvette programme
*
Nothing stopped us from selling our Sonars & torpedoes to Myanmar.

https://www.indiatoday.in/pti-feed/...o-to-be-exported-to-myanmar-896368-2017-03-24

And pray tell me, how many countries can build marine propulsion systems ?

GTs ? US, UK, Ukraine. China uses localised Ukrainian designs & Russians are struggling to develop a replacement for Ukrainian GTs.

Low speed diesel engines ? We already have JVs to manufacture them in India.

*Rolls-Royce and Goa Shipyard Limited agree to manufacture MTU engines in India
*
Same with gearboxes- Elecon/ Walchandnagar/ Kirloskar Pneumatic makes them.

*We can also make 4D Active phased array for light frigate application almost fully indigenously* (starting from GaAs /GaN MMICs)- land based versions already exist. We have our own naval radars already in service (on Kamorta class).






So basically *we can provide our own designs, steel, radars, Sonars, EW suite, license produced engines, torpedos & launchers, missiles, communication systems, CIWS, gearboxes, auxillary systems.*

Nothing different from BNS Bangabandhu deal.



BanglarBagh said:


> BrahMos(Russian onix copy assembled by India)



Brahmos is an Indo Russian JV, based on Yakhont's propulsion system & airframe. We have developed our own systems for it & manufacture the missiles in India with 70-80% indigenous content.

As I said earlier we are not Bangladesh that doesn't have a single certified aerospace vendor. 

Meanwhile enjoy this pic of Indian developed X-band seeker used in Brahmos.








Species said:


> It's known to all the level indigenization of Indian defence equipment is extremely low no matter what they claim.



 Is this all you have to say after running away ??

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## BanglarBagh

gslv mk3 said:


> Yes, Indian naval designers used a time machine in 1994-95 to go to the future & copy the design of a Russian frigate which was designed after 1997.
> 
> And even then, the hull-form is different from the Talwar...
> 
> Can't expect better logic from 2-USPTO-
> patent- a-year LDC folks.
> 
> Here is an excerpt from the *official history of Indian Navy, written by Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani*. He quotes *Rear Admiral Vaidyanathan, Project Director for P17 Frigate*.
> 
> _"At the same time, the design team set to work on developing the sleek lines of the new hull form. While a new BMT software became available sometime later for the hull lines, much work had already been progressed by then, using the naval architect’s traditional battens and lead weights, to evolve the lines of Project 17. Even though this old and traditional method was moving towards extinction with the birth of the Project 17 hull form, it did give that drawing board flexibility to tweak the lines using the drawing office expertise still available for this kind of specialist design work. The concept design options were presented to the naval staff in the first quarter of 1994 and were approved within few days.
> _
> *Model Tests. *
> _
> Having developed the hull form and preliminary propeller design, hydrodynamic model tests were ordered at the Netherlands model test basin-MARIN.
> 
> In a slight departure from earlier designs, a conscious decision was made in the very beginng into give a relatively sharp turn to the hull sections around the bilge for improved roll damping and have a generally flared hull form for increased stealth and high water plane area for good sea keeping. *The model tests of the new hull form began in July 1995*. As the project officer of P17, I was deputed to MARIN to participate in the tests and refined the appendages design based on test results. The model tests showed excellent hull performance. The powering results were within 2½% of DND’s predictions.
> 
> The resistance of the appendages was the lowest that one could achieve owing to the designed shaft line with lol rake and the flow adapted orientation of the shaft brackets. The sea keeping performance was seen to be exceptionally good meeting the stringent performance envisaged in the Staff Requirements. The roll performance was also exceptionally good and even better compared to some previous larger designs."
> _
> From "Transition to Guardianship-The Indian Navy 1991–2000" (2009)
> 
> But we should believe some butt-hurt Bangladeshi troll than the very project director of P17 frigate program @Nilgiri....
> 
> 
> 
> I would say that is Project 15A/B destroyers.
> 
> Maybe you didn't knew that Shivalik Class has been superseded by Next gen P17A with following systems.
> 
> Sensors and processing systems:
> 
> IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR S-band AESA multi-function radar (*being localised by BEL*)
> 
> Unknown VSR (BEL-SAAB JV maybe)
> 
> BEL HUMSA-NG bow sonar (*indigenous*)
> 
> BEL EMCCA combat management system (*indigenous*)
> Electronic warfare
> & decoys:
> 
> BEL Ajanta EW Suite (*indigenous*)
> 
> NSTL Maareech ATDS (*indigenous*)
> 
> Kavach chaff decoy system (*indigenous*)
> Armament:
> 
> 4 × 8-cell VLS, for a total of 32 Barak 8 missiles (*Joint Venture*)
> 
> 1 × 8-cell UVLM for 8 BrahMos missiles (*Joint Venture*)
> 
> 1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM (*produced at BHEL Haridwar*)
> 
> 2 × AK-630 CIWS (*made at OFB*)
> 
> 4 × 533 mm Torpedo tubes (*indigenous, made by L&T* firing Indigenous torpedos)
> 
> 2 × IRL anti-submarine rocket launchers (*localised, made by L&T*)
> And more of it is coming... Including Desi equivalent of VL-ASROC.
> 
> Shivalik uses licence produced SEMT Pielstick designs (Kirloskar) .So does Chinese Type 054A.
> 
> Similar story with the 76 mm gun with Chinese & Indian frigates.
> 
> What's the difference here ?
> 
> 
> 
> This is a Korean frigate your navy uses, tell me about the Korean designed weapon/sensor systems used here.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNS_Bangabandhu
> 
> We are have already exported 105 metre long OPV, 2300 tonne Offshore Patrol Vessel to Sri Lanka.
> 
> View attachment 504106
> 
> 
> http://www.colombopage.com/archive_18A/Mar26_1522077053CH.php
> 
> And we are competing for global naval tenders with our designs.
> 
> *GRSE unveils design proposal for Brazilian corvette programme
> *
> Nothing stopped us from selling our Sonars & torpedoes to Myanmar.
> 
> https://www.indiatoday.in/pti-feed/...o-to-be-exported-to-myanmar-896368-2017-03-24
> 
> And pray tell me, how many countries can build marine propulsion systems ?
> 
> GTs ? US, UK, Ukraine. China uses localised Ukrainian designs & Russians are struggling to develop a replacement for Ukrainian GTs.
> 
> Low speed diesel engines ? We already have JVs to manufacture them in India.
> 
> *Rolls-Royce and Goa Shipyard Limited agree to manufacture MTU engines in India
> *
> Same with gearboxes- Elecon/ Walchandnagar/ Kirloskar Pneumatic makes them.
> 
> *We can also make 4D Active phased array for light frigate application almost fully indigenously* (starting from GaAs /GaN MMICs)- land based versions already exist. We have our own naval radars already in service (on Kamorta class).
> 
> View attachment 504091
> 
> 
> So basically *we can provide our own designs, steel, radars, Sonars, EW suite, license produced engines, torpedos & launchers, missiles, communication systems, CIWS, gearboxes, auxillary systems.*
> 
> Nothing different from BNS Bangabandhu deal.
> 
> 
> 
> Brahmos is an Indo Russian JV, based on Yakhont's propulsion system & airframe. We have developed our own systems for it & manufacture the missiles in India with 70-80% indigenous content.
> 
> As I said earlier we are not Bangladesh that doesn't have a single certified aerospace vendor.
> 
> Meanwhile enjoy this pic of Indian developed X-band seeker used in Brahmos.
> 
> View attachment 504093
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is this all you have to say after running away ??



Well as expected you didn't get the point I was trying to make. Did I say India doesn't have any indegenised systems or platforms? However, can you say the frigates mentioned above are fully indegenous Indian platform with so many joint ventures and imported systems? You can't, can you? For indegenisation IN is first buying these systems from various sources and then implementing research and developments on those systems and platforms. IMO this is the way to go. In the same sense why can't BN do the same? Why does BN has to look to India for help as mentioned in some op of this thread when India itself does not have 100% indegenisation?

As for BN it's trying to get the best out of small joint venture platforms like lpc and corvette. Also now trying to get a joint venture frigate program. These are certainly small strides but nonetheless an initiative towards a positive outcome. But all you do is come to this section of the forum to troll and mock our efforts at the same time bragging how great India is. That just shows a superiority complex which is in fact another form of inferiority complex.


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## gslv mk3

BanglarBagh said:


> Well as expected you didn't get the point I was trying to make. Did I say India doesn't have any indegenised systems or platforms?



There is no point obviously. Also, for the second part- really ??



BanglarBagh said:


> Talwar Class is a modified Krivak so Russian design and accessories



 Don't contradict yourself.



BanglarBagh said:


> However, can you say the frigates mentioned above are fully indegenous Indian platform with so many joint ventures and imported systems? You can't, can you? For indegenisation IN is first buying these systems from various sources and then implementing research and developments on those systems and platforms. IMO this is the way to go. In the same sense why can't BN do the same? Why does BN has to look to India for help as mentioned in some op of this thread when India itself does not have 100% indegenisation?



Can you say that BNS Bangabandhu is fully South Korean ? You bought it though, didn't you ?

The Chinese & South Korean competitors in your frigate competition do not produce a 100% indigenous vessel as well, but you don't seem to have a problem with it.

Why can BN do the same ?

I have clearly pointed out what India can provide.



gslv mk3 said:


> So basically *we can provide our own designs, steel, radars, Sonars, EW suite, license produced engines, torpedos & launchers, missiles, communication systems, CIWS, gearboxes, auxillary systems.*



Which is quite good infact. We don't seem to face any problem while exporting warships to Sri Lanka, pitching sales to Brazil or selling subsystems to Myanmar.



BanglarBagh said:


> In the same sense why can't BN do the same? Why does BN has to look to India for help as mentioned in some op of this thread when India itself does not have 100% indegenisation?



There is a difference between what India is doing & what you are doing.

India is designing it's own warships & integrating Indian/Russian/Western systems on to them. We also license produce/ indigenously develop those systems on our own provided there is requirement.

Bangladesh is trying to buy a frigate design from elsewhere & produce it at home with the assistance of the OEM. 

The local content would be low (limited to the hull) as Bangladesh have limited industrial/technological capabilities.

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## TopCat

gslv mk3 said:


> The local content would be low (limited to the hull) as Bangladesh have limited industrial/technological capabilities.


Bangladesh export ship to India and world. Its just did not build the frigate yet. Thats all.

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## Species

gslv mk3 said:


> Is this all you have to say after running away ??



Indeed, I ran away being afraid of your wisdom.

Guess, @BanglarBagh has also figured it out. 



BanglarBagh said:


> Well as expected you didn't get the point I was trying to make.


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## gslv mk3

TopCat said:


> Bangladesh export ship to India and world. Its just did not build the frigate yet. Thats all.



Warship are way more complex than merchant ships, especially the kind you build (which is exactly why you are importing the design & technology)



Species said:


> Indeed, I ran away being afraid of your wisdom.



Repeating 'Indian ships are not reliable' like a deranged man & running away while countered with logical arguments is what wise people do... ?? I'm sorry that I don't have that sort of wisdom. 



Species said:


> Guess, @BanglarBagh has also figured it out



Your buddy doesn't have a point, just like any other Bangladeshi.

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## Species

Species said:


> 18:00-20:00
> 
> Preparations for indigenous frigate development program reiterated by Commodore Mozammel Haque.



@Al-Ansar take a look at the video above.

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## monitor

After rejecting China's offer for upgraded Type 054A/B guided missile frigate the Bangladesh Navy is possibly teaming up with Damen Group of Netherlands for designing a customized guided missile frigate with displacement of up to 4,500 tonnes based on the technical requirements of the Bangladesh Navy.

The warship will carry advanced sensors and weapons, Bangla-22 tactical data links, possibly Aster 15 or Umkhonto vertically launched surface to air missiles , Kh-35 or Otomat Mk 2 Block IV anti-ship missiles and much more.




Sources :Bdmilitary 

Lets wait for the best

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## SBUS-CXK

monitor said:


> After rejecting China's offer for upgraded Type 054A/B guided missile frigate the Bangladesh Navy is possibly teaming up with Damen Group of Netherlands for designing a customized guided missile frigate with displacement of up to 4,500 tonnes based on the technical requirements of the Bangladesh Navy.
> 
> The warship will carry advanced sensors and weapons, Bangla-22 tactical data links, possibly Aster 15 or Umkhonto vertically launched surface to air missiles , Kh-35 or Otomat Mk 2 Block IV anti-ship missiles and much more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources :Bdmilitary
> 
> Lets wait for the best


Bangladesh's choice is based on its own needs.


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## Nike

monitor said:


> After rejecting China's offer for upgraded Type 054A/B guided missile frigate the Bangladesh Navy is possibly teaming up with Damen Group of Netherlands for designing a customized guided missile frigate with displacement of up to 4,500 tonnes based on the technical requirements of the Bangladesh Navy.
> 
> The warship will carry advanced sensors and weapons, Bangla-22 tactical data links, possibly Aster 15 or Umkhonto vertically launched surface to air missiles , Kh-35 or Otomat Mk 2 Block IV anti-ship missiles and much more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources :Bdmilitary
> 
> Lets wait for the best



Quite crappy narrative you got here, bangla tactical link 22? Damen designing for bd? Never heard that, considering they got design center cooperation with Indonesia here at Surabaya. 4500 ton which class they will offer? As they focusing on Sigma based and omega design right now. Nice hoax you got here, you better trying to made story about meko 200 class

@DESERT FIGHTER @Nilgiri

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## TopCat

monitor said:


> After rejecting China's offer for upgraded Type 054A/B guided missile frigate the Bangladesh Navy is possibly teaming up with Damen Group of Netherlands for designing a customized guided missile frigate with displacement of up to 4,500 tonnes based on the technical requirements of the Bangladesh Navy.
> 
> The warship will carry advanced sensors and weapons, Bangla-22 tactical data links, possibly Aster 15 or Umkhonto vertically launched surface to air missiles , Kh-35 or Otomat Mk 2 Block IV anti-ship missiles and much more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources :Bdmilitary
> 
> Lets wait for the best


BD militarry gem..
Aster 15 or Umkhonto
How can they be comparable and be alternative to one another? A sword is alternate to rifle?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Marine Rouge said:


> Quite crappy narrative you got here, bangla tactical link 22? Damen designing for bd? Never heard that, considering they got design center cooperation with Indonesia here at Surabaya. 4500 ton which class they will offer? As they focusing on Sigma based and omega design right now. Nice hoax you got here, you better trying to made story about meko 200 class
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @Nilgiri


 There is a reason why sane members dont post much in Bangladesh section.. the whole thing runs on internet rumours and false bravado.

After rejecting Type-54 lol.. can they afford to spend over 1-1.2 billion for 2x 54s?

DAMEN makes corvettes,OPVs etc.

Pakistan is buying 4 ships from them as OPVs with light weapons..

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## Nike

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There is a reason why sane members dont post much in Bangladesh section.. the whole thing runs on internet rumours and false bravado.
> 
> After rejecting Type-54 lol.. can they afford to spend over 1-1.2 billion for 2x 54s?
> 
> DAMEN makes corvettes,OPVs etc.
> 
> Pakistan is buying 4 ships from them as OPVs with light weapons..



Well damen is right now working on omega class design for Indonesia navy project

http://www.navyrecognition.com/inde...18-damen-unveils-6000-tons-omega-frigate.html

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## monitor

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There is a reason why sane members dont post much in Bangladesh section.. the whole thing runs on internet rumours and false bravado.
> 
> After rejecting Type-54 lol.. can they afford to spend over 1-1.2 billion for 2x 54s?
> 
> DAMEN makes corvettes,OPVs etc.
> 
> Pakistan is buying 4 ships from them as OPVs with light weapons..



Damen have frigate too in their product list . recently thy offered 6000 tone omega frigate to Indonesia.



TopCat said:


> BD militarry gem..
> Aster 15 or Umkhonto
> How can they be comparable and be alternative to one another? A sword is alternate to rifle?



why we will use either umknoto or aster-15 as our air defense missile .


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## Imran Khan

monitor said:


> After rejecting China's offer for upgraded Type 054A/B guided missile frigate the Bangladesh Navy is possibly teaming up with Damen Group of Netherlands for designing a customized guided missile frigate with displacement of up to 4,500 tonnes based on the technical requirements of the Bangladesh Navy.
> 
> The warship will carry advanced sensors and weapons, Bangla-22 tactical data links, possibly Aster 15 or Umkhonto vertically launched surface to air missiles , Kh-35 or Otomat Mk 2 Block IV anti-ship missiles and much more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources :Bdmilitary
> 
> Lets wait for the best


BD military is fan page nothing serious



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There is a reason why sane members dont post much in Bangladesh section.. the whole thing runs on internet rumours and false bravado.
> 
> After rejecting Type-54 lol.. can they afford to spend over 1-1.2 billion for 2x 54s?
> 
> DAMEN makes corvettes,OPVs etc.
> 
> Pakistan is buying 4 ships from them as OPVs with light weapons..


bd military page already 
rejected jf-17 mig-29 mig-35 tejas-f-16
inducted - rafale -su-30 -su-35 -grippen -eu fighter

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## ghost250

Imran Khan said:


> BD military is fan page nothing serious
> 
> 
> bd military page already
> rejected jf-17 mig-29 mig-35 tejas-f-16
> inducted - rafale -su-30 -su-35 -grippen -eu fighter


prblm is we dont have that much credible sources reagrding bangladeshi armed forces which we can actually believe ..so,bdmilitary is the last resort for most of us..beside,many of the bdmilitarys news came out true for many occasions..they r not sumthng like a fan page,they r not a official page either..

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## Imran Khan

shourov323 said:


> prblm is we dont have that much credible sources reagrding bangladeshi armed forces which we can actually believe ..so,bdmilitary is the last resort for most of us..beside,many of the bdmilitarys news came out true for many occasions..they r not sumthng like a fan page,they r not a official page either..


its like something jutishi he pridict 10 things and 3 become true ? this can be done even from that guy whom sit with parrot in our park .

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## ghost250

Imran Khan said:


> its like something jutishi he pridict 10 things and 3 become true ? this can be done even from that guy whom sit with parrot in our park .




on a serious note,damen shipyard alrdy expressed its interest for bangladesh navys friagte project..i think,navy alrdy made up their mind..so,hope fopr the best..

http://www.theindependentbd.com/post/141957

"Of the 12 overseas ship-building companies, one company from Italy—Fincantieri, French shipbuilding company STX, Damen Shipyards from Denmark, two UK-based companies—Cammell Laird shipyard and Babcock International, two Chinese shipbuilding companies—China Shipbuilding and offshore International Co. Ltd. (CSOC) and China Shipbuilding Trading Co. Ltd. (CSTC), and two Indian companies— Reliance and Garden Reach Shipbuilders and Engineers Ltd, Singapore’s Singapore Technologies Marine Ltd, and three South Korean shipbuilders—Daewoo, Posco Daewoo Corporation, and Hyundai, have expressed interest to build the frigates."

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## TopCat

monitor said:


> why we will use either umknoto or aster-15 as our air defense missile .


They are miles apart..


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## ghost250

Marine Rouge said:


> Quite crappy narrative you got here, bangla tactical link 22? Damen designing for bd? Never heard that, considering they got design center cooperation with Indonesia here at Surabaya. 4500 ton which class they will offer? As they focusing on Sigma based and omega design right now. Nice hoax you got here, you better trying to made story about meko 200 class
> 
> @DESERT FIGHTER @Nilgiri


they have plans for our friagte pgrm....ofcourse,time will tell whether bdmilitarys claim is true or false...nd beside u didnt believe our armed forces official claim,our president or our navy chief or prime ministers defense advisor reagrding purchase of type053H3 frigate..why do u care so much about bd military??

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## Nike

shourov323 said:


> they have plans for our friagte pgrm....ofcourse,time will tell whether bdmilitarys claim is true or false...nd beside u didnt believe our armed forces official claim,our president or our navy chief or prime ministers defense advisor reagrding purchase of type053H3 frigate..why do u care so much about bd military??



Hoax still hoax and need to be debunked. Regardless any nation, do you get it

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## ghost250

Marine Rouge said:


> Hoax still hoax and need to be debunked. Regardless any nation, do you get it


as like??


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## Species

Marine Rouge said:


> Hoax still hoax and need to be debunked. Regardless any nation, do you get it



Do you even know the meaning of 'hoax'?


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## YeBeWarned

If what @monitor said comes true it would become a good addition to BD navy ..best of luck but I think BD can take 2 type 54 ( modified as per needs ) it's a very good multi purpose frigate .

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## TopCat

Starlord said:


> If what @monitor said comes true it would become a good addition to BD navy ..best of luck but I think BD can take 2 type 54 ( modified as per needs ) it's a very good multi purpose frigate .


BD wanted just hull but chinese wanted the entire package. So the deal did not fly.


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## Nilgiri

Imran Khan said:


> bd military page already
> rejected jf-17 mig-29 mig-35 tejas-f-16
> inducted - rafale -su-30 -su-35 -grippen -eu fighter

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## monitor

TopCat said:


> BD wanted just hull but chinese wanted the entire package. So the deal did not fly.



B's wanted mixed of Chinese about western sub system and weapons package which couldn't get.


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## trishna_amṛta

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> DAMEN makes corvettes,OPVs etc.



Damen merely design them, NOT building them. The main reason for it is because there isn't any shipyard in Nederland that could accommodate anything larger than 140m in length and it's not economical to upgrade their shipyard or to build anything larger than 140m in Nederland (too expensive). For example even the De Zeven Provinciën-class were build in Turkey

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## AMG_12

monitor said:


> After rejecting China's offer for upgraded Type 054A/B guided missile frigate the Bangladesh Navy is possibly teaming up with Damen Group of Netherlands for designing a customized guided missile frigate with displacement of up to 4,500 tonnes based on the technical requirements of the Bangladesh Navy.
> 
> The warship will carry advanced sensors and weapons, Bangla-22 tactical data links, possibly Aster 15 or Umkhonto vertically launched surface to air missiles , Kh-35 or Otomat Mk 2 Block IV anti-ship missiles and much more.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sources :Bdmilitary
> 
> Lets wait for the best


Interestingly, BD "rejects" tested and proven platforms and go for something that's on papers. "Teaming up with" is an overstatement, in the end it's gonna be another F7, K8 or a retired Chinese ship with a new paint job.



TopCat said:


> BD wanted just hull but chinese wanted the entire package. So the deal did not fly.


Really? Why do you guys make defense deals sound so easy? Terms like Reject, Accept, Procured and ToT are abused by BD fanboys and BDmilitary "analysts"

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## Areesh

Nilgiri said:


>



"BN rejected type 054a frigate" 

What kind of non sense is this??

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## AMG_12

Areesh said:


> "BN rejected type 054a frigate"
> 
> What kind of non sense is this??


You missed "upgraded" Type 54A/B

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## Destranator

Imran Khan said:


> BD military is fan page nothing serious
> 
> 
> bd military page already
> rejected jf-17 mig-29 mig-35 tejas-f-16
> inducted - rafale -su-30 -su-35 -grippen -eu fighter



The sad part is you are bang on the money.

Unfortunately some of my countrymen take Ashiq/Bdmilitary/Ammar Khan's gossip way to seriously and often exaggerate on top.

I have been following Bdmilitary for a long time now. While he usually reports smaller procurements such as helicopters, SAMs, artillery, etc. correctly, he offen gets carried away about major equipment such as fighter jets trying to impress people with ground-breaking news.

When things don't go as announced, he often comes back and makes absurd statments such as "BAF has REJECTED the J-10...". As if beggars (meaning 3rd world countries) can be choosers in such matters.

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## AMG_12

Al-Ansar said:


> The sad part is you are bang on the money.
> 
> Unfortunately some of countrymen take Ashiq/Bdmilitary/Ammar Khan's gossip way to seriously and often exaggerate on top.
> 
> I have been following Bdmilitary for a long time now. While he usually reports smaller procurements such as helicopters, SAMs, artillery, etc. correctly, he offen gets carried away about major equipment such as fighter jets trying to impress people with ground-breaking news.
> 
> When things don't go as announced, he often comes back and makes absurd statments such as "BAF has REJECTED the J-10...". As if beggars (meaning 3rd world countries) can be choosers there.


Actually beggars (3rd world countries) are the best choosers. Since they don't have excess of capital, theyd invest in platforms after rigorous testing and feasibility studies. Look at how Pakistan has been testing assault rifles, tanks, artillery, AD, helicopters and others.


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## Areesh

Game.Invade said:


> You missed "upgraded" Type 54A/B



So the main ship of PLAN is not good enough for BN

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## Aung Zaya

Areesh said:


> So the main ship of PLAN is not good enough for BN


since they already rejected MIG-35 TOT , Y-20 and KJ-200 and many other majors products of PLA.

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## Nilgiri

Areesh said:


> "BN rejected type 054a frigate"
> 
> What kind of non sense is this??



They bee too good for chini maal.

BDSTRONK2030zindabaad.



Al-Ansar said:


> The sad part is you are bang on the money.
> 
> Unfortunately some of my countrymen take Ashiq/Bdmilitary/Ammar Khan's gossip way to seriously and often exaggerate on top.
> 
> I have been following Bdmilitary for a long time now. While he usually reports smaller procurements such as helicopters, SAMs, artillery, etc. correctly, he offen gets carried away about major equipment such as fighter jets trying to impress people with ground-breaking news.
> 
> When things don't go as announced, he often comes back and makes absurd statments such as "BAF has REJECTED the J-10...". As if beggars (meaning 3rd world countries) can be choosers in such matters.



We REJECT your sanity and substitute our own!

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## Destranator

Nilgiri said:


> We REJECT your sanity and substitute our own!


 I will induct the best sanity by 2030.

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## Tanveer666

Nilgiri said:


> They bee too good for chini maal.
> 
> BDSTRONK2030zindabaad.
> 
> 
> 
> We REJECT your sanity and substitute our own!









P-pls no bully..

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