# PAC | Avionics Production Factory.



## Kompromat



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## Umair Nawaz

So how is DPR Korea?
@Aeronaut.


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## Manticore

PAC - The home of JF-17

PAC - The home of JF-17


AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING FACTORY - jft
AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING FACTORY on Vimeo


AVIONICS PRODUCTION FACTORY on Vimeo
AVIONICS PRODUCTION FACTORY - jft











A PAC SPOT
A PAC SPOT on Vimeo


PAC PRESENTATION
PAC PRESENTATION on Vimeo


AIRCRAFT REBUILD FACTORY
AIRCRAFT REBUILD FACTORY on Vimeo




MIRAGE REBUILD FACTORY
MIRAGE REBUILD FACTORY on Vimeo

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## salman83

Awesome....


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## SQ8

You can tell there is a fauji involved.. when you hear that "slect" english.

On the whole though.. nicely done.

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## Nishan_101

I think PEC should also be handed over to PAC.


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## khanboy007

they should produce a *new upgraded PAC pad* and get it in the international market !!!!! it can fund PAC well IMO 

one more question..........do we have wind engineers and wind tunnels for testing of various items involving higher exposure to winds, items e.g aircraft, buildings, automobiles etc....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

@5:15 you can see the diagram of a JF-17 but its cone or front area is pretty different...

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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Manticore



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## Imran Khan

why part by part here is full documentary dear members








those have no youtube

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## [--Leo--]

are they making any thing new?


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## Manticore



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## Edevelop



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## umair86pk

Amazing how far we have come. These facilities are state of the art


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## zahidiqbalrana

We are still not independent in this technology yet...


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## krash

Manticore said:


>








Since the thread has already been necroed.....haven't seen the above Mirage with us, any idea what and whose it is?


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## black-hawk_101

Nice to see such technology.


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## volatile

Does PAC has 3D printers ?


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## wOnDeR-ChAp

@Windjammer @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER @django

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## Imran Khan

wOnDeR-ChAp said:


> @Windjammer @Imran Khan @DESERT FIGHTER @django


kya haal hain bhai jaan ?. its old video but thanks for tag

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## wOnDeR-ChAp

Imran Khan said:


> kya haal hain bhai jaan ?. its old video but thanks for tag


OOh I don't know posted somewhere in S.M.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Proud Achievement PAC, certainly a group that makes me proud

The whole group every one from top to bottom , Just amazing folks best thing in Pakistan

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Proud to be a part of it!

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## Alpha BeeTee

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> Proud to be a part of it!



What do you do at PAC ?


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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Alpha BeeTee said:


> What do you do at PAC ?



I live there, lol. My father's there.

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## Dazzler

Foxtrot-Bravo said:


> I live there, lol. My father's there.



that makes your father a part of it, not you 

kidding, lucky you mate

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

Dazzler said:


> that makes your father a part of it, not you
> 
> kidding, lucky you mate



Hahaha! Thanks.


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## jericho

Awesome, anyone knows whats the procedure for someone who wants to work there?


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## I S I

kya baat hai yaar. awesome.


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## Incog_nito

Why not PAC do JV with Turkey on Airframes - Engines - Avionics?

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## mrrehan

Manticore said:


> PAC - The home of JF-17
> 
> PAC - The home of JF-17
> 
> 
> AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING FACTORY - jft
> AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING FACTORY on Vimeo
> 
> 
> AVIONICS PRODUCTION FACTORY on Vimeo
> AVIONICS PRODUCTION FACTORY - jft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A PAC SPOT
> A PAC SPOT on Vimeo
> 
> 
> PAC PRESENTATION
> PAC PRESENTATION on Vimeo
> 
> 
> AIRCRAFT REBUILD FACTORY
> AIRCRAFT REBUILD FACTORY on Vimeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MIRAGE REBUILD FACTORY
> MIRAGE REBUILD FACTORY on Vimeo




If I may I ask, An possibility of Pakistan working on its own jet engine developing program.


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## mustafa erkan

Pakistan can form a company with ASELSAN for avionics and Electronics which Kazakistan and Jordan have done.

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## CHINA83NEWS

mustafa erkan said:


> Pakistan can form a company with ASELSAN for avionics and Electronics which Kazakistan and Jordan have done.


Hope the company can profit.China hopes to Pakistan to spend less money on the military.Increase infrastructure investment.

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## mohibalikhan72

Can any one have some idea about PAC screen test for the poat of AFM Radio Fitter


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## mohibalikhan72

Manticore said:


> PAC - The home of JF-17
> 
> PAC - The home of JF-17
> 
> 
> AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING FACTORY - jft
> AIRCRAFT MANUFACTURING FACTORY on Vimeo
> 
> 
> AVIONICS PRODUCTION FACTORY on Vimeo
> AVIONICS PRODUCTION FACTORY - jft
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A PAC SPOT
> A PAC SPOT on Vimeo
> 
> 
> PAC PRESENTATION
> PAC PRESENTATION on Vimeo
> 
> 
> AIRCRAFT REBUILD FACTORY
> AIRCRAFT REBUILD FACTORY on Vimeo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MIRAGE REBUILD FACTORY
> MIRAGE REBUILD FACTORY on Vimeo


Guide line required for the post of AFM radio fitter test will be held @ PAC 14th june 2017.

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## Silahtar

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/891649357182902272


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## fatman17

Industry

China claims major boost in defence electronics capability

Jon Grevatt - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

21 November 2017

China’s industrial base now manufactures more than 85% of the key electronic components integrated onto Chinese military platforms, a senior government official in Beijing has claimed.

Diao Shijing, director of information technology at the Chinese government’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology (MIIT), said in comments to the China Dailynewspaper on 21 November that the new statistic means China is “closing the gap” with the United States.

According to the China Daily report, Diao said that over the past decade the technological gap between China and the United States has shortened from 15 years to 5 years. Over the same period, the ratio of indigenously produced electronic components in Chinese military platforms has increased from 30% to 85%, he said.

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## Windjammer



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## CriticalThought

Windjammer said:


> View attachment 527131



Superb! Masha Allah. Details please.

@Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar

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## Windjammer

CriticalThought said:


> Superb! Masha Allah. Details please.
> 
> @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @Bilal Khan 777 @Oscar


It's an Air Combat Manoeuvring Instrument (ACMI) Pod.

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## Maxpane

Informative thread


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## CriticalThought

Windjammer said:


> It's an Air Combat Manoeuvring Instrument (ACMI) Pod.



And I guess we are manufacturing it at PAC? NG implies second gen capability, i.e., satellite based positioning?


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## Maxpane

Any project for air to air missile?


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## Kompromat

Maxpane said:


> Any project for air to air missile?



Yes


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## Maxpane

Horus said:


> Yes


Thank you sir . Is it short range or medium range sir?


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## Kompromat

Maxpane said:


> Thank you sir . Is it short range or medium range sir?



Both


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## Maxpane

Horus said:


> Both


Thank you sir


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## Amaa'n

@HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @airomerix @Blacklight @araz 

Any Thoughts?

I hope they are not recruiting for PIA via PAC

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## HRK

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> @HRK @Bilal Khan (Quwa) @airomerix @Blacklight @araz
> 
> Any Thoughts?
> 
> I hope they are not recruiting for PIA via PAC


there is a program to establish MRO facility for Commercial aircrafts at old Islamabad Airport Chaklala .... this advertisement must be related to this program ....

A good opportunity for PIA engineering department staff ....

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## Amaa'n

HRK said:


> there is a program to establish MRO facility for Commercial aircrafts at old Islamabad Airport Chaklala .... this advertisement must be related to this program ....
> 
> A good opportunity for PIA engineering department staff ....


but why PAC is doing recruitment for Commercial airliners MRO? i mean shouldn't this be done by CAA or the airline itself?


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## StormBreaker

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> but why PAC is doing recruitment for Commercial airliners MRO? i mean shouldn't this be done by CAA or the airline itself?


ACM Sohail Aman did hinted about the production and repair/overhaul of commercial airliners and their engines, Surprised that you didn’t guess it 

PAC because the work is under PAC and CAA isn’t related


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## Amaa'n

StormBreaker said:


> ACM Sohail Aman did hinted about the production and repair/overhaul of commercial airliners and their engines, Surprised that you didn’t guess it
> 
> PAC because the work is under PAC and CAA isn’t related


i missed that part perhaps...sorry, my apologies in that case...


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## StormBreaker

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> but why PAC is doing recruitment for Commercial airliners MRO? i mean shouldn't this be done by CAA or the airline itself?


Oh,
Just got the context of your asking,
Yea, Strange indeed !!!

I didn’t read the poster mentioning boeings and airbuses, Since PAC was supposed to partner up with COMAC and Sukhoi maybe ?

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## HRK

Foxtrot Alpha said:


> but why PAC is doing recruitment for Commercial airliners MRO? i mean shouldn't this be done by CAA or the airline itself?


MRO facility would fall under the management of PAC .... they will later also manufacture commercial plane at Chaklala ....

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## JamD

HRK said:


> MRO facility would fall under the management of PAC .... they will later also manufacture commercial plane at Chaklala ....


Wait so no PAC will have MRO for commerical airliners? This just sounds like a bad idea all around. Instead of encouraging private sector we are making SOE do more and more of what the should not be doing.

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## StormBreaker

JamD said:


> Wait so no PAC will have MRO for commerical airliners? This just sounds like a bad idea all around. Instead of encouraging private sector we are making SOE do more and more of what the should not be doing.


These sectors require corruption-less, SINCERE organizations, Tell me since when did private companies set an example for such ? Yea, Government organizations are no less corrupt, actually more, But PAC isn’t.

“Be-Bassi ka Alam”


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## JamD

StormBreaker said:


> These sectors require corruption-less, SINCERE organizations, Tell me since when did private companies set an example for such ? Yea, Government organizations are no less corrupt, actually more, But PAC isn’t.
> 
> “Be-Bassi ka Alam”


My point really isn't about corruption. There are many more private organizations that don't have corruption then those that do. This is "nationalization-lite". We all know how well nationalization of everything works for us.

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## StormBreaker

JamD said:


> My point really isn't about corruption. There are many more private organizations that don't have corruption then those that do. This is "nationalization-lite". We all know how well nationalization of everything works for us.


Yes,
I am not disagreeing with you rather raising another concern,

Government hasn’t done enough to encourage private investors, One stupid amendment and all the private sector’s legs cut off... As if they were a joke or something...


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## HRK

JamD said:


> Wait so no PAC will have MRO for commerical airliners? This just sounds like a bad idea all around. Instead of encouraging private sector we are making SOE do more and more of what the should not be doing.


bro do you really think as of now our private sector have technological and financial strength to take on such task ... ???

All the private airlines still use PIA facilities which have limited capabilities of MRO as far as I know ..... so to save foreign exchange and increase the business someone has to move in this sector now if this someone is SOE is not necessarily bad at least that SOE is making investment in the sector and would train manpower who later could and be utilized by private sector if and when they enter in this sector

I could be wrong but I have a feeling that PAC in future let say 15-20 years would go in direction Chinese Business Model in aviation sector .... it would not cut the private sector from business but would help to establish vendors from Private sector and itself would act as Umbrella Organization

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## JamD

HRK said:


> bro do you really think as of now our private sector have technological and financial strength to take on such task ... ???


Probably not but they might if they're encouraged with the tools that a government has access to such as SEZ, tax-incentives, subsidies.



HRK said:


> All the private airlines still use PIA facilities which have limited capabilities of MRO as far as I know ..... so to save foreign exchange and increase the business someone has to move in this sector now if this someone is SOE is not necessarily bad at least that SOE is making investment in the sector and would train manpower who later could and be utilized by private sector if and when they enter in this sector


Here's my problem with this. Once a SOE enters the market it becomes really hard/impossible for anyone else to enter the market (unless of course the SOE just sinks like Steel Mills and PIA which is even worse than what I'm afraid of). Once PAC starts MRO for airliners do you really think the government will spend additional money and effort to promote private sector MRO? Absolutely not. Do you think a hypothetical private MRO will be able to compete with PAC who is funded by the government, has access to government employees, and doesn't really NEED to make a profit? Absolutely not. 

If anything PAC needs to do less than what they're doing right now and rope in private sector. This is better for EVERYONE. PAC (and a lot of SOEs) have this mindset of smart kids in school projects that lack leadership skills of "nobody can do this so I'll do it". A good leader needs to delegate their work to others and focus on their strengths, and not attempt to do everything under the sun themselves.



HRK said:


> I could be wrong but I have a feeling that PAC in future let say 15-20 years would go in direction Chinese Business Model in aviation sector .... it would not cut the private sector from business but would help to establish vendors from Private sector and itself would act as Umbrella Organization


I hope so too but all I see is PAC going in the OPPOSITE direction of what you say, and this is yet another piece of evidence pointing towards that.

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## CriticalThought

JamD said:


> Wait so no PAC will have MRO for commerical airliners? This just sounds like a bad idea all around. Instead of encouraging private sector we are making SOE do more and more of what the should not be doing.



Agreed. Somebody (MastanKhan?) once shared a video about how the Luftwaffe expanded into areas it wasn't meant to be. There was a trust deficit involved... I only barely recall the details. But I have been apprehensive about PAC branching out into too many directions. And we know from ACM Sohail Aman that they are targeting space as well. This is not good at all.



JamD said:


> Probably not but they might if they're encouraged with the tools that a government has access to such as SEZ, tax-incentives, subsidies.
> 
> 
> Here's my problem with this. Once a SOE enters the market it becomes really hard/impossible for anyone else to enter the market (unless of course the SOE just sinks like Steel Mills and PIA which is even worse than what I'm afraid of). Once PAC starts MRO for airliners do you really think the government will spend additional money and effort to promote private sector MRO? Absolutely not. Do you think a hypothetical private MRO will be able to compete with PAC who is funded by the government, has access to government employees, and doesn't really NEED to make a profit? Absolutely not.
> 
> If anything PAC needs to do less than what they're doing right now and rope in private sector. This is better for EVERYONE. PAC (and a lot of SOEs) have this mindset of smart kids in school projects that lack leadership skills of "nobody can do this so I'll do it". A good leader needs to delegate their work to others and focus on their strengths, and not attempt to do everything under the sun themselves.
> 
> 
> I hope so too but all I see is PAC going in the OPPOSITE direction of what you say, and this is yet another piece of evidence pointing towards that.



The best outcome from this would be a complete spin-off. I am not optimistic that would happen.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

The issue with SOEs in the armed forces is three-fold:

1. It is an increasingly expensive overhead, one that isn't 100% utilized all the time. This is money that will go into maintaining infrastructure and personnel that otherwise could've gotten into procurement.

2. It sets up wrong incentives for at least some personnel in the armed forces, they become less soldier-y and more business man, which isn't what the public paid them to be (via training, benefits, etc).

3. It's economically inefficient because these subsidized entities will keep private enterprises (which rely on profit) out, which means depressed investment potential.

IMHO ... PIA should've just released a tender stipulating that it wants domestic MRO services for specific aircraft and, in turn, commit to buying services from the winner for X years. _*If *_the private sector doesn't step up, then OK, go ahead and make an SOE out of it, but I doubt that very much. The folks behind PAeC want to invest, at least as long as the PAF/Gov't keep the field open to them (not crowd it out with SOEs).

Likewise, the PAF, PA and PN should've released a joint tender for a MALE UAV, with a 'favourability clause' for domestic private sector actors who will manufacture it in Pakistan. With a ironclad commitment to buy 150 such drones over 10 years, I'm sure the private sector would've risen to the challenge. The Turks threw less on the table and got Baykar Makina out of it. 

To be frank, this is all a case of the armed forces uncles not giving others a chance. You see it in stuff as silly as media and entertainment, so why not bigger ventures? Right?

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## CriticalThought

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> The issue with SOEs in the armed forces is three-fold:
> 
> 1. It is an increasingly expensive overhead, one that isn't 100% utilized all the time. This is money that will go into maintaining infrastructure and personnel that otherwise could've gotten into procurement.
> 
> 2. It sets up wrong incentives for at least some personnel in the armed forces, they become less soldier-y and more business man, which isn't what the public paid them to be (via training, benefits, etc).
> 
> 3. It's economically inefficient because these subsidized entities will keep private enterprises (which rely on profit) out, which means depressed investment potential.
> 
> IMHO ... PIA should've just released a tender stipulating that it wants domestic MRO services for specific aircraft and, in turn, commit to buying services from the winner for X years. _*If *_the private sector doesn't step up, then OK, go ahead and make an SOE out of it, but I doubt that very much. The folks behind PAeC want to invest, at least as long as the PAF/Gov't keep the field open to them (not crowd it out with SOEs).
> 
> Likewise, the PAF, PA and PN should've released a joint tender for a MALE UAV, with a 'favourability clause' for domestic private sector actors who will manufacture it in Pakistan. With a ironclad commitment to buy 150 such drones over 10 years, I'm sure the private sector would've risen to the challenge. The Turks threw less on the table and got Baykar Makina out of it.
> 
> To be frank, this is all a case of the armed forces uncles not giving others a chance. You see it in stuff as silly as media and entertainment, so why not bigger ventures? Right?



The only thing is, we really can't trust the Razzaq Dawoods and Malik Riazs in the country either. What somebody said earlier about PAC becoming an umbrella organization makes the most sense for military projects. For commercial ventures, they need to spin-off a child company and let them grow independently. PAF can buy its transports from the spin-off, while purely military aircraft comes from PAC. Since the spin-off originates from PAC, its security can be guaranteed through a proper structuring in the resulting company.

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## JamD

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> To be frank, this is all a case of the armed forces uncles not giving others a chance. You see it in stuff as silly as media and entertainment, so why not bigger ventures? Right?

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## ghazi52

*Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) introduces superior model of Mushshak aircraft*

2 March 1999

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC), Kamra, has upgraded the Mushshak aircraft by incorporating several modifications in its existing version.

The sale of the upgraded version, named "Super Mushshak," is being negotiated with potential buyers like Saudi Arabia.

The PAC has retrofitted the 260 HP Lycoming engine and McCauley 3-blade speed propeller, upgrading the performance of the Mushshak.

The production of the Mushshak aircraft reflects the high level of skill of PAC engineers. Besides Pakistan, this aircraft is being used by Sweden, Denmark, Oman, Syria and Iran.

According to the sources, modalities for the sale of additional four Mushshak to Oman have been finalized by both the countries and a final contract is likely to be signed soon.

Co-production of the Grifo-7 airborne radar is also expected to be completed by May 2000 with an Italian company. The infrastructure, including production equipment, has been completed at the PAC, according to Defence Ministry sources.

The programme is scheduled to have four phases: experiment, procurement of production equipment, training of manpower and regular production. The first three phases have been completed.

According to Defence Ministry sources, the recovery of 50 grounded PAF Mirage aircraft and their avionic upgradation are the two main projects which are nearing completion and most of the requirements have been met through indigenous sources.

All the PAC factories have achieved ISO-9000 certification. As a result, they have gained confidence of their customers and have achieved international reputation.

PAC Kamra launched a deletion programme to promote indigenization. As a result 511 metallic pipes out of 585 are being fabricated locally by the Mirage Rebuild Factory (MRF) thus saving a substantial amount of foreign exchange.

As many as 243 structural parts are also being manufactured locally by the factory. Investment casting facility and meteorological centre have been established in the F-6 Rebuild Factory (F6 RF) which are used for manufacture of high consumption small parts and supersonic drop tanks and for calibration of equipment and testers.

The facilities will also provide services to civil sector on commercial basis. Co-production of the MPDRs, CRC, RWR and overhauling of power generators is also another achievement made indigenously by the PAC through a delegation programme.

The Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) established in 1979 to manufacture, modernize and rebuild tanks and APCs of the Pakistan Army is also on the forefront to meet the defence needs.

The years 1997 and 1998 have remained extremely eventful and rewarding for the HIT from the production, technical developments and administrative improvements point of view. During this period while achieving optimum production targets, a historic contract was concluded with the USA for the manufacture of Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) and, above all, the research and development phase of the MBT-2000 'Al-Khalid' tank was completed successfully.

PRODUCTION OF TANKS AND APCs: During the period between February 1997 and December 1998 the HIT manufactured, rebuilt and upgraded a large number of tanks and APCs.

MANUFACTURE OF APCs: The HIT was allocated $126 million by the Pakistan Army to manufacture APCs M113P. In line with the government's policy to obtain maximum cost benefits and keep dealings transparent, the HIT administration embarked upon an extensive market research and devised a new strategy for material acquisition and production management.

Its efforts duly supported by the government paid rich dividends and a contract was concluded with the United States to manufacture 1200 APCs. Production cost of the HIT is far below the international prices and has allowed huge savings to Pakistan.

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## ghazi52

*PEC being transferred to PAF*


It said that Precision Engineering Complex (PEC) being a strategic unit contributed very little towards PIA, therefore, the prime minister had already given an executive order to transfer PEC to Pakistan Air Force.


_Published in Dawn, December 17th, 2020_

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## Shah_Deu

PRECISION ENGINEERING COMPLEX







www.piac.com.pk





*Precision Engineering*





*PRECISION ENGINEERING COMPLEX*
*Fully Integrated, Precision Engineering for Demanding Industries*
The Precision Engineering Complex (PEC) at PIA manufactures high precision parts for the aerospace industry and a number of other industries.
The PEC is an integrated facility that houses major engineering disciplines under one roof, including investment casting, conventional and CNC machining, Optics, PCB, Electrical, Electronics and Composites. Multi-disciplinary teamwork enables intelligent decision making and high quality output in all phases of product development and manufacturing.
Across the globe, PEC products take to the skies every day. The PEC is a supplier to USA and Europe and serves companies such as General Electric, Airbus Industries and Boeing. Services run the gamut from simple machining jobs to complex shaping using high precision CNC controlled equipment. The team is experienced in cutting large varieties of basic and exotic materials including hard steels, aluminum alloys, and the machining of a wide range of castings, forging and extrusions.

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## HRK

Shah_Deu said:


> PRECISION ENGINEERING COMPLEX
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.piac.com.pk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Precision Engineering*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *PRECISION ENGINEERING COMPLEX*
> *Fully Integrated, Precision Engineering for Demanding Industries*
> The Precision Engineering Complex (PEC) at PIA manufactures high precision parts for the aerospace industry and a number of other industries.
> The PEC is an integrated facility that houses major engineering disciplines under one roof, including investment casting, conventional and CNC machining, Optics, PCB, Electrical, Electronics and Composites. Multi-disciplinary teamwork enables intelligent decision making and high quality output in all phases of product development and manufacturing.
> Across the globe, PEC products take to the skies every day. The PEC is a supplier to USA and Europe and serves companies such as General Electric, Airbus Industries and Boeing. Services run the gamut from simple machining jobs to complex shaping using high precision CNC controlled equipment. The team is experienced in cutting large varieties of basic and exotic materials including hard steels, aluminum alloys, and the machining of a wide range of castings, forging and extrusions.



the link you have posted mention number of facilities which would really help PAC, but I think some time back there was plan to shift these facilities to the premises of old Islamabad Airport which I find unnecessary *IF *these facilities are operational at their existing premises

*PEC FACILITIES

Machine Shop*

The Precision Engineering Complex is driven by a modern machine shop for diversified engineering services. The workshop is predominantly CNC oriented, and is supported by a group of manually controlled machines.

The PEC offers services for the cutting of materials into predefined shapes or sizes using a variety of modern cutting methods. Services range from simple cut-to-length jobs to very complex shaping using high precision CNC controlled equipment. The PEC team is experienced in cutting large varieties of basic and exotic materials including harder steels, titanium alloys, aluminum alloys, and the machining of a wide range of castings, forging and extrusions.

The PEC specializes in the production of complex aircraft engines and structural parts. Machining services are offered to a range of clients, including General Electric Aircraft Engines USA, Boeing Commercial Airplane Company USA, and Airbus Industries, Germany.

*Investment Casting Facility*

The PEC’s Investment Casting Facility is equipped to produce a wide spectrum of precision components for the aerospace sector and other industries that require engineering services. The PEC team has deep experience in Aluminum Casting Alloys, Nickel Base Alloys, Cobalt Base Alloys (air and vacuum), Carbon Steel, Stainless Steel, and Super Alloys.
The PEC is a one-stop shop for casting, machining, and surface treatment, and has years of experience in casting intricate aircraft engine parts. As a supplier to prestigious firms such as General Electric, and certified by Boeing and GEAE, the PEC is uniquely positioned to deliver high quality services at competitive rates.

*PEC’s Capabilities*


AlloysAluminum Casting Alloys, Nickel Base Alloys, Cobalt base alloys, Carbon Steel, Stainless Steel, Super AlloysCastingAir and VacuumWeight of Casting8 gram per piece (minimum)
10 kg per piece (maximum)Size of Casting400 × 300 × 300 mm (maximum)Surface FinishVaries from 3 to 6 microns Ra.Minimum Wall Thickness1.5 mm for Steel and Super Alloys
1 mm for Aluminum Base Alloys

*Shot Peening*

The PEC’s Shot Peening facility enhances metal fatigue properties through surface treatment of a range of metallic parts. The purpose of Shot Peening is to provide cold working by inducing compression stresses on a metallic surface. The residual stresses, deriving from machining, welding or any other operation can, as a result, be modified. Shot Peening is specifically used for Titanium-based Alloys, High Alloy or Tool Steels and Corrosion Resistance Steels (CRES), to reduce the shrinkage stresses, to avoid formation of shrinkage cracks and also the effect of fatigue or cyclic load/stresses.

Shot Peening is an excellent method for improving resistance to fatigue, stress corrosion cracking, and galling.

The key features and capabilities of this powerful machine are:
Six automated nozzles and one manual nozzle. Parameters are controlled by PLC programming
The maximum capacity of shot flow rate is 20 lb/min
The maximum achievable intensity is 0.009A noted by Almen strips.
The PEC’s world-class Shot Peening facility is approved by BOEING in accordance with BAC 5730N and BSS 7630.

*Glass Fiber Composite Manufacturing*

The PEC features a medium sized facility for the production of cylindrical glass fiber composite parts for various sectors of industries. Depending upon the requirements for chemical resistance, mechanical properties and temperature resistance, a suitable glass type and resin is selected from a range of available components. Our capability includes the production of glass fiber composite products using the filament winding method. Our highly skilled team can process the following materials:

Glass Fiber
Kevlar
Carbon Fiber
The quality of fiberglass reinforced pipes that the PEC produces conforms to the requirements of ANSO B 31.3 (Chemical Plant and Petroleum Refinery Piping), AWWAC-950 (America Water Works Association Standard for Fiberglass Pipes) and ASTM D-2996. Pipes and similar products can be produced with an inside diameter ranging from 50 mm to 1000 mm and a length of 4500 mm.

*Optics*

The Optics section of the PEC has a modern manufacturing facility equipped with sophisticated machines for the production of high grade optical elements. The PEC produces a range of optical elements from high quality, Grade-A optical glasses, based on customer specifications. The Optics section offers the following products:

Windows
Mirrors
Spherical Lenses
Prisms
The PEC’s Optics section, fully equipped to go from prototype to high volume production, also offers standard and custom coatings to meet specific operational requirements.

*Printed Circuit Boards (PCB)*

The PEC is equipped with a modern PCB manufacturing facility powered by state-of-the-art technology. The PCB division has the capability of producing 80 square feet of Printed Circuit Boards in a single shift operation. Customized PCBs can also be produced according to customer specifications.

Our product range includes single sided, double sided, multi-layer (up to 8 layers) and flexible PCBs. Screen Printing facilities are also offered.

*Plating Facilities*

The PEC offers established facilities for different types of plating for surface protection. Plating provides excellent corrosion resistance even at low thickness and adds tremendous value to the aesthetics of products. The PEC offers a range of plating services:


Cadmium Plating
Zinc Plating
Chromic Acid Anodizing
Sulphuric Acid Anodizing with Coloring
Black Anodizing
Sulphuric Acid Hard Anodizing
Anodizing
Etching of Steel and Ti Alloys
The PEC’s high-end plating services are extremely flexible and small batches as well as high volume production can be handled, depending on the needs of our customers.

*Non Destructive Testing Facility*

The PEC offers the following non-destructive test facilities:

Penetrant Inspection
X-Ray Inspection
Magnetic Particle Inspection
*Material Testing Laboratory*

The PEC’s established Material Test Laboratory is composed of the following facilities:

Hardness Testing
Tensile
Metallography
NDT is approved by NADCAP and the Material Testing Laboratories are approved by GEAE as per S-400.

*Calibration Facility*

The PEC offers facilities for the calibration of a wide range of mechanical and electrical Measuring and Test Equipment:


Gauge Blocks
Caliper Checker
Standard Bars
Micrometers
Vernier Calipers
Height Gauges
Depth Gauges
Measuring Scales
Measuring Tape
Multimeter (Analog & Digital)
Voltmeters (AC & DC)
Ampere Meter (AC & DC)
Earth Resistance Meter
Clamp Meter
Insulation Tester
Magger Meter
Battery Tester
The PEC calibrates equipment in accordance with ISO-10012-1 standards and an unbroken chain of traceability ensures world-class quality.

*Packaging Plant*

The PEC has an EPS molding plant for the production of thermopore packaging materials. Based on the Expanded Polystyrene (EPS) process, the plant offers economical, customized packaging boxes, available in an array of shapes and sizes, to suit a wide range of requirements.
The PEC’s Expanded Polystyrene plant is equipped to produce approximately 100 pieces, with sizes of 600 x 600 mm, per hour.

*Binocular Assembly*

The PEC manufactures high quality 8×30 binoculars for civil and military use. The binoculars feature sturdy construction and all metal housing, and are vibration and shock proof. In addition, the binoculars are temperature, rainwater and spray water protected. The product is rubber-armored in camouflaged green, and is capable of absorbing shocks in the event of a fall.
The binoculars’ optics are multilayer, anti-reflection coated, reducing light losses and glare, and produce bright, clear images.
Technical Specifications:
*Model:* 8×30 MSP
*Magnification*: 8xt
*Clear Aperture*: 30mm
*FOV:* 8.5 degrees.
*Eyepiece adjustment:* ±5 diopters
*Dimensions (L × W × D):* 110 × 165 × 50 mm
*Reticle (Optional):* ±40 mils (6400)

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## GriffinsRule

Latest article on PAC Kamra from March 2021. Posting here for record keeping.
-------------------

*Pride of Pakistan *- by Alan Warnes, Air International March 2021

In common with production facilities all over the world, Kamra-based Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) initially suffered from the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. And not least because it faced a very specific challenge, continuing to look after the entire Pakistan Air Force (PAF) fleet at the same time as building a new aircraft type.

Ensuring that the maintenance repair and overhaul (MRO) facility could carry on with its vital work fell on the shoulders of Air Marshal Syed Noman Ali, who became PAC chairman in early January 2020, just as COVID-19 was gathering pace. The former F-16 Viper pilot told _AIR International _recently: “Within a few weeks of arriving here I had to come up with solutions to ensure the health and safety of the 15,000 workers, while serving the many needs of the PAF. It was quite a job!”

*Maintaining the schedule*
Production of the new JF-17 Thunder fighter at the Aircraft Manufacturing Factory (AMF) was initially affected, but after a few weeks, the workforce was housed on the facility enabling personnel to work longer shifts. It took AM Noman and his team about three months to find a new way of working around the coronavirus limitations.

PAC Kamra is the brainchild of the PAF and an extension of the PAF. That’s why it is run by an air marshal, and 40% of the 15,000-strong workforce is military. As well as the AMF, there are three other major facilities within PAC: the Mirage Rebuild Factory (MRF), the Aircraft Rebuild Factory (ARF), and the Avionics Production Factory (APF) with a dedicated research and development department running alongside it.

We asked AM Noman about the PAC’s role in the PAF: “We have four main tasks: the production of the JF-17 Thunder to supplement the fleet and replace obsolete aircraft – whether it be Mirages or Chinese aircraft; life cycle support – all the MROs established here are overhauling aircraft and components then returning them back into service; rectifying components at D Level; and manufacturing harnesses, material components not just limited to aircraft but also for ground-based air defence sensors.”

AM Noman was keen to emphasize the vital role played by the often overlooked design and development section: “It is to assist and supplement, as well as digitalize, design or prototype systems. We determine whether they are feasible, cost effective and whether serial production is worthwhile for the PAF. After prognosis, continuation of the project is discussed, whether we should continue or keep it at prototype [stage]. We are also collaborating in artificial intelligence (AI) with the PAF and its departments, to fuse AI into various projects and to understand what extent we need to capitalize that capability to make it a better product.”

*Pakistan’s fifth-gen fighter*
At the moment the design and development department is working on a fifth-generation fighter, known as Azm. The project is being conceptualised and preliminary designs are ongoing. “There will come a time when we will review it for its cost effectiveness, and what capabilities can be fused into the project, it will have to be something essential for a next-gen fighter,” he said.

Once Azm is past the preliminary design stage, detailed design will follow before prototyping the initial concept and working towards the final concept. “It will be improved over the three phases with each lasting around two years. In each phase the aircraft could evolve, even its future operating capability (FOC) could see improvements,” he added.

The PAF anticipates that the fifth generation fighter will fly in 2028, but as the PAC chairman explained: “If a partner joins us with new expertise, then that date might alter. We are working in a very focused manner and engaging with international partners to see what they can offer.”

Obviously, the PAC and PAF has learnt a lot from developing and then building the Sino-Pak JF-17 Thunder with the Chinese, and AVIC (Aviation Industry in China) in particular. Fourteen years ago, the PAF hadn’t even started to build fighters. “It’s been a valuable experience, particularly for attracting people here that have diverse [knowledge] within various specialties – design, structures, avionics, integration. We have built over 100 JF-17s that are operationally employed today,” he said.

*Thunders rolling*
On December 30, 2020, the chairman handed over 14 dual-seat JF-17B Thunders built at the AMF, although he was at pains to acknowledge the contribution of all the factories.

PAC Kamra is responsible for building 58% of the single-seat JF-17s, while AVIC contributes the remaining 42%, but with the extra cockpit in the JF-17B and smaller fuel tank was PAC Kamra now contributing less to the build? “No, we are making them as per the original plan, but at times like the first three months of COVID-19 we had to rely on our Chinese partners to do more. We prefer to meet our deadlines than meeting our percentage output,” he stated.

*Training and evaluation*
Unlike the single-seat JF-17s, the dualseater has fuel in both wings and in the vertical tail, all of which are made at PAC Kamra under the 58% agreement. “They are not in fuel bladders but carried as integral fuel tanks like on the F-16. Each wing houses 550Ib and the vertical tail, 210lb, which together with the internal fuel load totals of 4,910Ib. Including the three external fuel tanks, the aircraft can carry a 10,000Ib fuel load.”

All 26 JF-17Bs have now been built and handed over to the PAF. The plan is to use them to fulfil training needs with the operational conversion unit (18 Sqn ‘Sharp Shooters’) but also to undertake evaluation and standardisation requirements with operational squadrons. The 12 aircraft handed over in late December 2019 have been delivered to the operational units, while the bulk of the latter will undoubtedly go to the ‘Sharp Shooters’.

“Now, all efforts are being turned towards production of the newer, more capable Block III JF-17s. While final assembly of the dual-seaters was ongoing at the AMF, the SPG [Small Part Manufacturing] had started work on the components of the Block III.” Given that his previous role was JF-17 Chief Project Director (CPD), AM Noman is fully conversant with Block III. “Among the several improvements over the Block I/ II JF-17s is the new KLJ-7A AESA airborne electronically scanned array radar.”

After evaluating three different radars, the CETC (China Electronics Technology Corporation) KLJ-7A was selected in late 2019 and allows for a new generation of weapons and air-to-air missiles. The chairman continued: “A second Block III prototype has been flying in China since August last year, joining the first example delivered in December 2019, that was already undergoing test and evaluation there. By the time we deliver the first serial production Block III from PAC in early 2022 most of the work will be complete. While our flight test pilots and engineers [of the co-located Flight Test Group] are doing most of their work here, they travel to China when the need arises.

“The first Block III is expected to fly from PAC Kamra later this year with the new radar, which we are co-producing at the Avionics Production Factory. This facility has over the past 20 years or so, worked on the Grifo radars [for both the Chengdu F-7P/PG and Dassault Mirage IIIs] as well as the original KLJ-7 in the JF-17 Block I/IIs, so is more than capable of working on the new radar.”

The KLJ-7A will eventually be retrofitted into the JF-17B, so making it a very capable tactical trainer, which several foreign forces are apparently studying. AM Noman explained that although there is a requirement for 50 Block IIIs, only around 30 have initially been contracted, the rest may come later. With a KLJ-7A production line being created at APF, there is every likelihood the earlier Block I/II JF-17s could be upgraded too.

*Chinese partners*
Other than the AESA radar, the main difference between the Block II and Block III JF-17s, according to the chairman, is a helmetmounted display the PAF is working on with companies in China and Pakistan, three axis fly-by-wire, an enhanced EW management system and a chin-mounted hard point. The PAF has acquired the Aselsan targeting pod, known simply as the Aselpod, with eight ordered so far to support integration, plus a follow-on purchase of 50 made up of three batches.

During the JF-17B roll-out on December 30, 2020, three JF-17 Block IIs destined for the Nigerian Air Force were seen in the line-up. According to AM Noman, these will be delivered in the March 2021 timeframe, while training the pilots is a joint PAC/PAF effort: “We are training around 50 pilots and technicians as and when required by the NAF.” When I asked if the Nigerians were set to order more JF-17s, the chairman said, “We hope so. You should ask them!”

The Aircraft Repair Factory, previously known as the F6 Rebuild Factory, used to overhaul the Shenyang FT-5, FT-6 and Chengdu F-7P in addition to the existing F-7PGs and K-8s – that make up the PAF’s Chinese fleet. Now with the first three types retired, the facility obviously has extra capacity that is enabling it to turn its attention to the JF-17.

By mid-2019, work on the first two aircraft had been completed, and the chairman confirmed that two more have been finished since then. All the fleet will go through ARF eventually, as PAC aims to keep pace with the PAF’s operational requirements.

*Super Mushshak*
The other aircraft in full production at the AMF, headed up by Air Vice Marshal Shams-Ul-Haq, is the MFI-17 Super Mushshak. Since a glass cockpit was introduced – incorporating Dynon, Garmin and more recently Genesys – the Super Mushshak has benefitted from a significant boost in sales. The chairman stated: “The choice of the digital avionics system is down to the customer – we tell the customer [about] their capabilities and cost, as we do for anything else that they might want in the aircraft. Customers have recently shown particular interest in the Genesys system which we integrated in 2019.”

The first order could come from an in-country customer, although he wouldn’t confirm whether that would be the air force or army. On the export front, Nigeria (ten), Qatar (eight), Azerbaijan (ten) and Turkey (52) have all ordered them, with deliveries completed to the first three customers between 2017-2019. The Turkish Air force ordered two prototypes and 50 serial production aircraft in May 2017, and while it was initially agreed they would be built at Ankara-based Turkish Aerospace, the work is now being carried out at AMF.

“Unfortunately COVID has affected the progress of production but hopefully won’t delay the deliveries over the next three years,” he said. The first two Turkish Super Mushshaks, to be equipped with the Garmin avionics system, have flown and are now painted in their colour scheme with the first batch of aircraft slated for delivery within 2021.

*Civil contracts*
When asked if the Royal Saudi Air Force was set to upgrade its fleet of 20 Super Mushshaks flying with the King Faisal Air Academy, the Air Marshal would only say that discussions were still ongoing.

With regards to simulation systems, he said the PAF was using the Super Mushshak system to train cadets at the Asghar Khan Academy: “However, the aircraft is very easy to fly so customers are not really interested [in simulators], but it’s an area we would definitely like to [explore].” 

As a natural extension of its activities, PAC is now diversifying into overhauling civil airliners. It has formed a partnership with Lithuania’s ASG to overhaul widebody Airbus A330s and Boeing 777s. “We are the first EASA qualified facility in Pakistan for these aircraft and are primarily focused on foreign airlines, because PIA [Pakistan International Airlines] has its own facilities. Our first facility is at Islamabad International Airport and the second one will be at Karachi IAP,” he said.

Undoubtedly, Air Marshal Syed Noman Ali, who has now been the PAC boss for over a year, faces many challenges but the biggest right now “is to the meet the deadlines of our customers during this restricted COVID-19 era.”

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## JamD

GriffinsRule said:


> *Pakistan’s fifth-gen fighter*
> “There will come a time when we will review it for its cost effectiveness, and what capabilities can be fused into the project, it will have to be something essential for a next-gen fighter,” he said.
> 
> Once Azm is past the preliminary design stage, detailed design will follow before prototyping the initial concept and working towards the final concept. “It will be improved over the three phases with each lasting around two years. In each phase the aircraft could evolve, even its future operating capability (FOC) could see improvements,” he added.
> 
> *The PAF anticipates that the fifth generation fighter will fly in 2028*, but as the PAC chairman explained: “If a partner joins us with new expertise, then that date might alter. We are working in a very focused manner and engaging with international partners to see what they can offer.”


Still sounds extremely ambitious but let's see.





GriffinsRule said:


> “Among the several improvements over the Block I/ II JF-17s is the new KLJ-7A AESA airborne electronically scanned array radar.”
> 
> After evaluating three different radars, the CETC (China Electronics Technology Corporation) KLJ-7A was selected in late 2019 and allows for a new generation of weapons and air-to-air missiles.


So KLJ-7A is confirmed. I am not sure if it had been officially confirmed before this.



GriffinsRule said:


> By the time we deliver the first serial production Block III from PAC in early 2022 most of the work will be complete. While our flight test pilots and engineers [of the co-located Flight Test Group] are doing most of their work here, they travel to China when the need arises.


So first serial production block III in 2022....damn.






GriffinsRule said:


> “The first Block III is expected to fly from PAC Kamra later this year with the new radar, which we are co-producing at the Avionics Production Factory. This facility has over the past 20 years or so, worked on the Grifo radars [for both the Chengdu F-7P/PG and Dassault Mirage IIIs] as well as the original KLJ-7 in the JF-17 Block I/IIs, so is more than capable of working on the new radar.”


This is likely the AESA radar seen in PAC posters. @HRK




GriffinsRule said:


> Other than the AESA radar, the main difference between the Block II and Block III JF-17s, according to the chairman, *is a helmetmounted display the PAF is working on with companies in China and Pakistan*, three axis fly-by-wire, an enhanced EW management system and a chin-mounted hard point. The PAF has acquired the Aselsan targeting pod, known simply as the Aselpod, with eight ordered so far to support integration, plus a follow-on purchase of 50 made up of three batches.


Some kind of Chinese+Local Collab HMD confirmed???? @Bilal Khan (Quwa)

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## GriffinsRule

JamD said:


> So first serial production block III in 2022....damn.


Well the serial production is already underway and the first jets will be produced this year. The actual delivery to PAF wont happen till 2022 as there is always testing involved post production and usually a batch of aircraft are delivered concurrently instead of 1 by 1.
So we might see 6-10 aircraft being handed over to PAF at the same time etc.

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## HRK

Very very informative article .... plz also post it in JF-17 Information pool thread 

some interesting points



GriffinsRule said:


> Unlike the single-seat JF-17s, the dualseater has fuel in both wings and in the vertical tail, all of which are made at PAC Kamra under the 58% agreement. “They are not in fuel bladders but carried as integral fuel tanks like on the F-16. Each wing houses 550Ib and the vertical tail, 210lb, which together with the internal fuel load totals of 4,910Ib. Including the three external fuel tanks, the aircraft can carry a 10,000Ib fuel load.”





GriffinsRule said:


> eventually be retrofitted into the JF-17B, so making it a very capable tactical trainer, which several foreign forces are apparently studying. AM Noman explained that although there is a requirement for 50 Block IIIs, only around 30 have initially been contracted, the rest may come later. With a KLJ-7A production line being created at APF, there is every likelihood the earlier Block I/II JF-17s could be upgraded too.





GriffinsRule said:


> The PAF anticipates that the fifth generation fighter will fly in 2028, but as the PAC chairman explained: “If a partner joins us with new expertise, then that date might alter. We are working in a very focused manner and engaging with international partners to see what they can offer.”

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## khanasifm

Ok 2 block 3 were Built on 2020 as first article, while another 12 or 14 will be in 2021, a sqn worth of order to raise first block 3 sqn next year , Pac will produce all by December and perhaps hand over to Paf first quarter of 2022 
All blcok 3 by 2025 or all 50 these wi replace perhaps all PGs

2025 onwards order will start replacing mirages


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## HRK

JamD said:


> So KLJ-7A is confirmed. I am not sure if it had been officially confirmed before this.


but the question is which version, If I am not wrong KLJ-7 has 3 different liquid cool version and one air cool version


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## Ali_Baba

Excellent article. A Shame about them only ordering 30 JF17 Block III's so far. I wonder why? Its makes little sense, given the previous orders PAF has placed for the plane.

Lets see.

Interesting information about the new JF17s Block B's and potentiallay Block III using newer design Integral fuel tanks rather than bladders of Block 1/2 ...


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## JamD

HRK said:


> but the question is which version, If I am not wrong KLJ-7 has 3 different liquid cool version and one air cool version


Pretty sure this version (whichever it is):

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## JamD

An order of 30 Block III's can point to either or both of the following:

PAF is expecting another platform to join
PAF is certain that Block 1 and 2 will be made comparable to block 3 so the entire fleet will be essentially block 3.
Also note we have clear statement on mounting AESA on JF-17B which is block 2, so at the very least block 2's can take the AESA.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

@JamD 

Could the test-flight goal for the FGFA could be a basic demonstrator based on current capabilities (in-house and off-the-shelf), while *true *development (of FCS, etc) happens later? Basically, we get something flying now but still expect a 10-15 year gap from the flight to the first squadron?

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## JamD

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> @JamD
> 
> Could the test-flight goal for the FGFA could be a basic demonstrator based on current capabilities (in-house and off-the-shelf), while *true *development (of FCS, etc) happens later? Basically, we get something flying now but still expect a 10-15 year gap from the flight to the first squadron?


Unlikely. FCS has to be developed with the first prototype - FCS is developed in parallel. And once it is developed you are either doing license production or tweaks later. No point in reinventing the wheel. So if a prototype flies with a foreign FCS, the final jet will probably fly with the same origin FCS. And this is likely what will happen.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

JamD said:


> Unlikely. FCS has to be developed with the first prototype - FCS is developed in parallel. And once it is developed you are either doing license production or tweaks later. No point in reinventing the wheel. So if a prototype flies with a foreign FCS, the final jet will probably fly with the same origin FCS. And this is likely what will happen.


So basically, 'seven years' could either be a lot of time for what the PAF's doing (i.e., they've secured the inputs and are cleared to use them for a fighter), or not enough time (i.e., they're developing the inputs).

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## HRK

JamD said:


> Pretty sure this version (whichever it is):
> View attachment 721072
> 
> View attachment 721073


I believe this is the very first version showcased 3-4 years back



JamD said:


> An order of 30 Block III's can point to either or both of the following:
> 
> PAF is expecting another platform to join
> PAF is certain that Block 1 and 2 will be made comparable to block 3 so the entire fleet will be essentially block 3.
> Also note we have clear statement on mounting AESA on JF-17B which is block 2, so at the very least block 2's can take the AESA.


Or may be PAF is expecting to order the other 20 with locally made/built AESA radar while the radar after complete TOT for first batch of 30 radars for JF-17 blk-III .... like some sort of Offsets conditional agreement 


GriffinsRule said:


> *With a KLJ-7A production line being created at APF*, there is every likelihood the earlier Block I/II JF-17s could be upgraded too.



Or all 3 are the possible reasons

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## JamD

HRK said:


> Or may be PAF is expecting to order the other 20 with locally made/built AESA radar while the radar after complete TOT for first batch of 30 radars for JF-17 blk-III .... like some sort of Offsets conditional agreement


Yes, that is the optimistic version. Let's see what happens.

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## peagle

JamD said:


> Pretty sure this version (whichever it is):
> View attachment 721072
> 
> View attachment 721073



What makes you think it could be this version?


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

JamD said:


> An order of 30 Block III's can point to either or both of the following:
> 
> PAF is expecting another platform to join
> PAF is certain that Block 1 and 2 will be made comparable to block 3 so the entire fleet will be essentially block 3.
> Also note we have clear statement on mounting AESA on JF-17B which is block 2, so at the very least block 2's can take the AESA.


IIRC the JF-17B is only Block-2 in as far as its radar and avionics suite. It's technically closer to the Block-III, e.g., 3-axis fly-by-wire. 

That said, I don't think there's anything stopping the Block-IIs or even Block-Is from at least getting an AESA radar. For example, the competing Chinese radar -- LFK601E -- was tested from an earlier JF-17 prototype and marketed as a good retrofit solution. 

It wouldn't surprise me if the KLJ-7A was certified to work on the Block-IIs and Block-Is (though it might not lead to a full Block-III upgrade, which includes the new FBW and space for an integrated ECM). 

Still, the new AESA radar would at least give the Block-I/IIs better ECCM, better detection ranges, increased targeting, and compatibility with the longer-ranged AAMs. I just wonder when would be a good time to run the upgrade. The Block-Is are undergoing their overhauls, so I guess upgrading them isn't a priority (these planes will start reaching 20 years from 2030). Maybe the Block-2s?

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## kursed

JamD said:


> Still sounds extremely ambitious but let's see.


There is no NGFA, unless another partner joins the program.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> IIRC the JF-17B is only Block-2 in as far as its radar and avionics suite. It's technically closer to the Block-III, e.g., 3-axis fly-by-wire.
> 
> That said, I don't think there's anything stopping the Block-IIs or even Block-Is from at least getting an AESA radar. For example, the competing Chinese radar -- LFK601E -- was tested from an earlier JF-17 prototype and marketed as a good retrofit solution.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise me if the KLJ-7A was certified to work on the Block-IIs and Block-Is (though it might not lead to a full Block-III upgrade, which includes the new FBW and space for an integrated ECM).
> 
> Still, the new AESA radar would at least give the Block-I/IIs better ECCM, better detection ranges, increased targeting, and compatibility with the longer-ranged AAMs. I just wonder when would be a good time to run the upgrade. The Block-Is are undergoing their overhauls, so I guess upgrading them isn't a priority (these planes will start reaching 20 years from 2030). Maybe the Block-2s?


It does seem like entire Block 2 fleet will see radar updates as well, we will not start an entire radar production line in Kamra just for 40 odd Block 3s and Bravos. It does not make any sense. It'd only make sense if a retrofit of at least Block 2 jets is planned as well.

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## Yasser76

Maybe PAF us looking at retiring the 50 or so high hour Block 1s early?


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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

kursed said:


> There is no NGFA, unless another partner joins the program.
> 
> It does seem like entire Block 2 fleet will see radar updates as well, we will not start an entire radar production line in Kamra just for 40 odd Block 3s and Bravos. It does not make any sense. It'd only make sense if a retrofit of at least Block 2 jets is planned as well.


I think the 2028 target may indicate that they found said partner -- 99% chance being the Chinese. I can't think of any other country they would be able to get critical inputs (e.g., engine, FCS, TRMs, etc).

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## Pakistan Space Agency

GriffinsRule said:


> ... AM Noman explained that although there is a requirement for 50 Block IIIs, only around 30 have initially been contracted, the rest may come later. With a KLJ-7A production line being created at APF, there is every likelihood the earlier Block I/II JF-17s could be upgraded too. ...



Only 30 Block-3 contracted so far? 50+62+26+30 = 168 total confirmed so far.

Anyways,

No mention of further JF-17 Thunders for Myanmar other than the 5 delivered so far.
No indication of further exports of JF-17 Thunders.


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## GriffinsRule

Pakistan Space Agency said:


> Only 30 Block-3 contracted so far? 50+62+26+30 = 168 total confirmed so far.
> 
> Anyways,
> 
> No mention of further JF-17 Thunders for Myanmar other than the 5 delivered so far.
> No indication of further exports of JF-17 Thunders.


They should have at least 7, if going by the serial numbers and I think the plan was to buy 9 initially. Its quite possible they have 9 in service. Its not an easy AF to get a lot of pictures of.


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## Kabotar

99% sure it's CAC.


Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I think the 2028 target may indicate that they found said partner -- 99% chance being the Chinese. I can't think of any other country they would be able to get critical inputs (e.g., engine, FCS, TRMs, etc).

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## Dazzler



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## Moon

Does PAC have large scale additive manufacturing? Seems every aerospace startup in the West has it. Seems very promising for rapid prototyping and manufacturing in-house components, especially geometrically complex ones, like combustion chambers. Or perhaps for quickly making toolings and molds?

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