# Official Confirmation: Saudi Arabia has Indeed Bought 150 Pakistani Al-Khalid Tanks



## Mosamania

A report on Al-Arabiyah after a briefing from a Saudi officer has revealed that Saudi Arabia has indeed purchased 150 Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan for 600M$. The report is here: 

‫بالفيديو.. أهم صفقات السلاح السعودي‬‎ - YouTube

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## Dr. Strangelove

only 600 million i m greedy i want more
by the way thats just 4 million a pop even VT4 costs like 5 million


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## A.Rafay

Long Live Pak-Saudi military cooperation. Alkhalids are good tanks, Hope they serve Saudis well.

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## kaonalpha

Good now the saudi should pay with there apache helicopter and we should negotiate that all heavy military hardware will be sold or traded with apaches and strykers


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## Tameem

Mosamania said:


> A report on Al-Arabiyah after a briefing from a Saudi officer has revealed that Saudi Arabia has indeed purchased 150 Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan for 600M$. The report is here:
> 
> ‫بالفيديو.. أهم صفقات السلاح السعودي‬‎ - YouTube



Its an important Development, helps to kill the overall perception that Pak-KSA relationship is a one way street.


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## Psychic

It may open the doors for sale of Al-Khalid to other potential customers.


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## C130

Type 99 next?

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## ali_raza

brothers in arms


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## Beast

C130 said:


> Type 99 next?


Sorry, type 99 is not for sale. The best for export currently from China is VT-4

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## masud

I thought saudi arabia is interested to purchase leo 2a7+.........


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## Spy Master

Good for Pakistan Defence Industry...!


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## HRK

Mosamania said:


> A report on Al-Arabiyah after a briefing from a Saudi officer has revealed that Saudi Arabia has indeed purchased 150 Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan for 600M$. The report is here:
> 
> ‫بالفيديو.. أهم صفقات السلاح السعودي‬‎ - YouTube



Any more detail about Al- Khalid purchase deliver schedule .... etc ... ??? 

they showed CH-4 wing long drone as well in that video .... has KSA bought that as well .... ??

@Horus ....


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## Saifullah Sani

Mosamania said:


> A report on Al-Arabiyah after a briefing from a Saudi officer has revealed that Saudi Arabia has indeed purchased 150 Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan for 600M$. The report is here:
> 
> ‫بالفيديو.. أهم صفقات السلاح السعودي‬‎ - YouTube


any other link?


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## Mosamania

HRK said:


> Any more detail about Al- Khalid purchase deliver schedule .... etc ... ???
> 
> they showed CH-4 wing long drone as well in that video .... has KSA bought that as well .... ??
> 
> @Horus ....



Yeah, the Wing Long is currently in the Saudi inventory.

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## LonE_WolF

well thats a good news 
During Ideas, there was news that we are in very advance stage of negotiations with KSA for sale of Al-Khalid. Seems that deal has been inked


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## الأعرابي

Hope this news is not true


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## LonE_WolF

الأعرابي said:


> Hope this news is not true


and why is that?


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## الأعرابي

LonE_WolF said:


> and why is that?



There's better options than Al-Khaled.

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## Spy Master

الأعرابي said:


> There's better options than Al-Khaled.


Like?


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## LonE_WolF

الأعرابي said:


> There's better options than Al-Khaled.


Yes there are. But they have bought it means that it has met their requirements.


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## flamer84

There goes the Leo, i guess...


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## الأعرابي

Spy Master said:


> Like?



We can get more Abrams, Or negotiate on the Leopard 2A7+, Challenger 2, Type 10, Leclerc, K2 Black Panther, Altay Etc......



LonE_WolF said:


> Yes there are. But they have bought it means that it has met their requirements.



If the T-90 didn't meet the requirements you think Al-Khalid will?! If the news is true then most likely they bought it for political reasons.

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## LonE_WolF

الأعرابي said:


> If the T-90 didn't meet the requirements you think Al-Khalid will?!


How can you say it didn't? because why would they buy it if it didn't meet their requirements specially when they have other options as well. Also they have most probably gone for AK-1 not AK.
@Dazzler @Horus plz shed some light on capabilities of these tanks.

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## الأعرابي

LonE_WolF said:


> How can you say it didn't? because why would they buy it if it didn't meet their requirements specially when they have other options as well. Also they have most probably gone for AK-1 not AK.
> @Dazzler @Horus plz shed some light on capabilities of these tanks.



I updated my reply, check it out.


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## LonE_WolF

الأعرابي said:


> I updated my reply, check it out.


yes they may have. but they evaluated it long time ago and rejected it (basic AK), after that there were rumors that a more advance variant is being made to meet their requirements.


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## Dazzler

Dr. Stranglove said:


> only 600 million i m greedy i want more
> by the way thats just 4 million a pop even VT4 costs like 5 million



Load of crap, never happened.



الأعرابي said:


> We can get more Abrams, Or negotiate on the Leopard 2A7+, Challenger 2, Type 10, Leclerc, K2 Black Panther, Altay Etc......
> 
> 
> 
> If the T-90 didn't meet the requirements you think Al-Khalid will?! If the news is true then most likely they bought it for political reasons.



Should I step in sir? Thanks 

Regarding the first part, Germans slapped you for Leo 2 so there it goes, for M1A2, who stopped you anyway? 

Now the second part. Unless you know facts, you should not compare AK with T-90 mate. I know and have seen both inside out, including many others and know for real that until the t-90MS, no t-90 version comes close to the battlefield awareness, ammo effectiveness and FCS day n night performance let alone comparing them. 

Saudis were and still are interested not because of politics but because it is an excellent weapon system with great economy and survivability. It is not a gas guzzler like Leo or challyor M 1 but it does the job with efficiency that is what matters.

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## flamer84

Dazzler said:


> It is not a gas guzzler like Leo or challyor M 1 but it does the job with efficiency that is what matters.



better than those 2 mentioned ?


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## Dazzler

flamer84 said:


> better than those 2 mentioned ?


Read the post again.


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## flamer84

Dazzler said:


> Read the post again.




I did and the statement that was stickng out was that it's not a gas guzzler like those 2 which i found curious because if you were proposing AK's for let's say Romania than this would be a valid point but when it's the Saudis we're talking about,not so much.


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## Donatello

flamer84 said:


> I did and the statement that was stickng out was that it's not a gas guzzler like those 2 which i found curious because if you were proposing AK's for let's say Romania than this would be a valid point but when it's the Saudis we're talking about,not so much.



Their airforce operates Tornados, F-15s and Typhoons........why? When they can afford an all F-15 fleet or all typhoon fleet? It's good to have some sort of diversity.

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## Mosamania

flamer84 said:


> I did and the statement that was stickng out was that it's not a gas guzzler like those 2 which i found curious because if you were proposing AK's for let's say Romania than this would be a valid point but when it's the Saudis we're talking about,not so much.



Logistically speaking it does matter. Saudi Military planners have proven so far that they know what they're doing.

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## kaku1

الأعرابي said:


> If the T-90 didn't meet the requirements you think Al-Khalid will?! If the news is true then most likely they bought it for political reasons.


You dont know Al-Khalid is better than T-90?

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## Tameem

It might be possible KSA buys AKs for possible future Pakistani troops usage on their own within KSA itself.


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## SBD-3

RSAF using JSOWs.


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## Dazzler

flamer84 said:


> I did and the statement that was stickng out was that it's not a gas guzzler like those 2 which i found curious because if you were proposing AK's for let's say Romania than this would be a valid point but when it's the Saudis we're talking about,not so much.


You misunderstood the post mate, and AK is has the most proficient diesel engine in the world, the 6td series. While M1Axx operate on a highly fuel hungry turbine engine that needs constant battlefield support even to run basic checks which is not the case with AK. Also, do you know your M1 lacks an auto tracking and locking system in its fire control? Do you know the M1 exported to you has a downgraded armour module? Even the optics and night vision equipment is downgraded while there is no hunter killer fire control option or even a panoramic sighting system for both commander and gunner combined operation, and there is no target cueing capability to attack more than one targets which helps in rapid firing on the most threatening target.third gen thermal imager, multiprocessing fast fire control computer with state of the art battle management and datalink system and the engine transmission that is quite economical. But since there is no order, be happy with the gas guzzler.



vK_man said:


> Pakistan helping Saudi wage genocide on shias . @Cheetah786



Not needed, open another thread for flaming purposes.

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## flamer84

Dazzler said:


> You misunderstood the post mate, and AK is has the most proficient diesel engine in the world, the 6td series. While M1Axx operate on a highly fuel hungry turbine engine that needs constant battlefield support even to run basic checks which is not the case with AK. Also, do you know your M1 lacks an auto tracking and locking system in its fire control? Do you know the M1 exported to you has a downgraded armour module? Even the optics and night vision equipment is downgraded. With AK, you would not have had such issues as you would get the third gen thermal imager, multiprocessing fast fire control computer with state of the art battle management and datalink system and the engine transmission that is quite economical. But since there is no order, be happy with the gas guzzler.
> 
> 
> 
> Not needed, open another thread for flaming purposes.




Man,i was speaking hypothethically,we have no M1's,we're only operating some rehashed 80's tank,unfortunately.



vK_man said:


> Pakistan helping Saudi wage genocide on shias . @Cheetah786



lol


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## Dazzler

flamer84 said:


> Man,i was speaking hypothethically,we have no M1's,we're only operating some rehashed 80's tank,unfortunately.



Apologies, I mistook you as a Saudi member, on a side note, Romania did help us manufacturing 100mm apfsds round back in the 80s 

Just a bit of trivia

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## omega supremme

who know's maybe pakistan going to send some troops permanently like 2 or three brigades because 150 tanks make an brigade but if we are to send any force it should be a corp size so we can really defend our holy land


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## Mughal-Prince

vK_man said:


> Pakistan helping Saudi wage genocide on shias . @Cheetah786



If you can't contribute something useful please stop bakwas trolling and littering thread.


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## Screambowl

they were interested in leaopard. But Germany cancelled the ToT and the deal.



masud said:


> I thought saudi arabia is interested to purchase leo 2a7+.........


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## SOHEIL

kaku1 said:


> You dont know Al-Khalid is better than T-90?



Much better !


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## kaku1

SOHEIL said:


> Much better !


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## farhan_9909

kaku1 said:


> You dont know Al-Khalid is better than T-90?



well i have indeed studied a polish tank expert views where he claimed that the armour of Al khalid must be comparable to t-80ud of Pakistan,which he said to be better than the t-90s in service with india.

Apart from Armour,Al khalid does has electronics,engine and firepower edge over t-90 and even arjun.infact as per him,currently Pakistan hold the best APFSDS in south asia

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## kaku1

farhan_9909 said:


> well i have indeed studied a polish tank expert views where he claimed that the armour of Al khalid must be comparable to t-80ud of Pakistan,which he said to be better than the t-90s in service with india.
> 
> Apart from Armour,Al khalid does has electronics,engine and firepower edge over t-90 and even arjun.infact as per him,currently Pakistan hold the best APFSDS in south asia


Ever you met any sales man that says " Please dont buy my product, it have no chance against any other product in market?".

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## SOHEIL

kaku1 said:


>


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## kaku1

farhan_9909 said:


> he's not a Pakistani but a independent tank expert from poland.I have forgotten his username,i will post it and you can search for his views on Al khalid


Did he ever traveled India, or did IA ever allowed him in T-90 'Bhishama'? 

Bro, I can say this too, I met a Russian guy, who said Al Khalid has no chance against T-90.

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## farhan_9909

kaku1 said:


> Did he ever traveled India, or did IA ever allowed him in T-90 'Bhishama'?
> 
> Bro, I can say this too, I met a Russian guy, who said Al Khalid has no chance against T-90.



he has some serious knowledge of tanks,even a member of tank.net.i will search you his name later and you can search about his views.though he's against the al khalid design as it lots of flaws


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## RAMPAGE

farhan_9909 said:


> he's against the al khalid design as it lots of flaws


Elaborate please.


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## kaku1

farhan_9909 said:


> he has some serious knowledge of tanks,even a member of tank.net.i will search you his name later and you can search about his views.though he's against the al khalid design as it lots of flaws


I met the Russian guy in DefenceExpo, and yes he has serious knowledge of tanks. 

Whats your point? How I know Abrrams stand against Leopard, when I only know about Abrams?


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## ptldM3

Did the Leo 2 deal fizzle out? I would have though that if the the Leo 2A7 deal would not got threw that they would go with the older but upgraded 2A4 which the 2A4 is a newish tank anyways. At least the Al-Khalid is a capable tank and Pakistan benefits economically.









Dazzler said:


> Load of crap, never happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Should I step in sir? Thanks
> 
> Regarding the first part, Germans slapped you for Leo 2 so there it goes, for M1A2, who stopped you anyway?
> 
> Now the second part. Unless you know facts, you should not compare AK with T-90 mate. I know and have seen both inside out, including many others and know for real that until the t-90MS, no t-90 version comes close to the battlefield awareness, ammo effectiveness and FCS day n night performance let alone comparing them.
> 
> Saudis were and still are interested not because of politics but because it is an excellent weapon system with great economy and survivability. It is not a gas guzzler like Leo or challyor M 1 but it does the job with efficiency that is what matters.





Where did you get to inspect the T-90? Did you test fire the T-90's main gun and compare its hit probability to the AK? Did you test its armor? What about the sabot rounds the T-90 uses, how do they compare in penetration?

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## Dazzler

ptldM3 said:


> Did the Leo 2 deal fizzle out? I would have though that if the the Leo 2A7 deal would not got threw that they would go with the older but upgraded 2A4 which the 2A4 is a newish tank anyways. At least the Al-Khalid is a capable tank and Pakistan benefits economically.
> 
> View attachment 209964
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get to inspect the T-90? Did you test fire the T-90's main gun and compare its hit probability to the AK? Did you test its armor? What about the sabot rounds the T-90 uses, how do they compare in penetration?



Bm-42 as sabot is not impressive at 420mm penetration. The 1A xx FCS is again just a basic system with standard fire control and image processing at beat. The armour had two components, the era and composite. The turret has semi hardness steel plating, again average at best as high hardness is standard. Main gun is 125mm 2a46m which gives good internal chamber pressures. All in all the comparison is mute as I know it.


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## Sinnerman108

Dazzler said:


> Bm-42 as sabot is not impressive at 420mm penetration. The 1A xx FCS is again just a basic system with standard fire control and image processing at beat. The armour had two components, the era and composite. The turret has semi hardness steel plating, again average at best as high hardness is standard. Main gun is 125mm 2a46m which gives good internal chamber pressures. All in all the comparison is mute as I know it.



Nabil
The Finance minister Dar, had some thing to do at HIT , a year or so ago .. 
and some statements were made about proping up HIT to deliver like others .. what was that all about ?


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## Dazzler

Sinnerman108 said:


> Nabil
> The Finance minister Dar, had some thing to do at HIT , a year or so ago ..
> and some statements were made about proping up HIT to deliver like others .. what was that all about ?


Time pass, samosas and stuff.


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## ptldM3

Dazzler said:


> Bm-42 as sabot is not impressive at 420mm penetration.




Russia has sabot round that are reported to have 800mm penetration. Even a conservative 3BM-42M round has 650mm penetration.






Dazzler said:


> The 1A xx FCS is again just a basic system with standard fire control and image processing at beat.





Again where did you get to inspect a T-90? Reading wikipedia does not make you an expert on the T-90s fire control system, even if it is "basic" there are reports from exorcises where T-90's have hit all of their targets on the move at long distances. Did you fire both the T-90's main canon and the AKs? Unlikely.






Dazzler said:


> The armour had two components, the era and composite. The turret has semi hardness steel plating, again average at best as high hardness is standard. Main gun is 125mm 2a46m which gives good internal chamber pressures. All in all the comparison is mute as I know it.






The armor protection on the T-90 is classified, no one knows what the exact composition is nor does anyone know the exact level of protection despite the 'estimates'. No need to derail the thread.

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## Dazzler

ptldM3 said:


> Russia has sabot round that are reported to have 800mm penetration. Even a conservative 3BM-42M round has 650mm penetration.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again where did you get to inspect a T-90? Reading wikipedia does not make you an expert on the T-90s fire control system, even if it is "basic" there are reports from exorcises where T-90's have hit all of their targets on the move at long distances. Did you fire both the T-90's main canon and the AKs? Unlikely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The armor protection on the T-90 is classified, no one knows what the exact composition is nor does anyone know the exact level of protection despite the 'estimates'. No need to derail the thread.



Penetration value is vastly overestimated, the 42m barely reaches 560mm at 0 degree @ 2000 m but then, you are from Russia right. 

Never did I say its FCS is bad or inaccurate but it is a basic system that works, doesn't offer anything significant as AK FCS does. The armour is good, should I mention its components on the forum? 
And the gun is also good but max out at 2200m since the FCS does not support engagements beyond this, you see the hindrance here. And the interior is simply dreadful. I would take a type 59 interior any day over t90 and 72. There is no cooling, no ecs, no BMS, less than adequate space to even move your hand around. 

I can literally go on mate but keep it for later..

Lastly, none of this offtopic and both tanks were competing in the Saudi MBT tender once.



kaku1 said:


> Ever you met any sales man that says " Please dont buy my product, it have no chance against any other product in market?".


Now why would a Polish sell a Pakistani tank. Stop trolling.

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## Umair Nawaz

الأعرابي said:


> We can get more Abrams, Or negotiate on the Leopard 2A7+, Challenger 2, Type 10, Leclerc, K2 Black Panther, Altay Etc......
> 
> 
> 
> If the T-90 didn't meet the requirements you think Al-Khalid will?! If the news is true then most likely they bought it for political reasons.


PA TANKS comparison with contempory tanks

get some knowledge before making assumptions.


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## Dazzler

farhan_9909 said:


> he has some serious knowledge of tanks,even a member of tank.net.i will search you his name later and you can search about his views.though he's against the al khalid design as it lots of flaws



If you are talking about pikachu, he is much bubble and less fire, has been wrong many a times. There is one pol I know but he also lacks some basic info on Pakistani armour development. In fact, I had to help him abit


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## Umair Nawaz

farhan_9909 said:


> he's not a Pakistani but a independent tank expert from poland.I have forgotten his username,i will post it and you can search for his views on Al khalid
> 
> 
> 
> But why does it matter to you sir?


its in indian defence forum where u exposed yrself!


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## Umair Nawaz

Dazzler said:


> If you are talking about pikachu, he is much bubble and less fire, has been wrong many a times. There is one pol I know but he also lacks some basic info on Pakistani armour development. In fact, I had to help him abit


he is talking abt that polish dude from indiandefenceforum.


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## Altamimi

ptldM3 said:


> Penetration levels are dependent on rod penetrator *density, velocity and mass*. The T-90 uses munitions with varying factors for the three criteria i have mentioned. There is no set number to how much a projectile should penetrate. There is countless sources claiming Russian 125mm APFSDS munitions having 650mm-750mm penetration at 0 degrees.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So then why claim the Al-Khalid is superior to the T-90 and then mention the T-90s fire control ballistics computer? The two tanks have never competed directly in field trials to come to any conclusion about how good, bad or basic the fire control computers are in terms of hit rate on either platform.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No one know the exact composition of the T-90s armor besides the developers and a handful of other people in their countries respective defense departments. If you can give some detailed specifics about the armor that would be a first.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, where did you get to go to sit inside a T-90? The Al-Khalid has a very small turret, its interior room is not much different from a T-90. There is an old rumor that you have to be a midget to fit inside a Russian tank something that Tom Clancy started. The T-90 is not the most roomy tank but the crew can move around just fine. Your other claim about cooling is false, *T-90s do have AC units*, some T-90s were sold without them upon customer request. I also do not know what you mean by ecs and bms but chances are good that what you said is not true.
> 
> 
> 
> CAG report reveals T-90 tanks are vulnerable to heat 'because they ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Here is a picture of a the T-90s gunner position. Granted this is a T-90MS but it is a T-90 nevertheless.
> 
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> 
> View attachment 210004
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> You can "literally" keep going but you will "literally" keep getting all of your information wrong. The T-90 was never in any Saudi tender and to the best of my knowledge Saudi Arabia has never even inspected a single T-90.




It was tested by the Army in 2007 and it failed due to the extremely hot weather

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## Manticore

LonE_WolF said:


> How can you say it didn't? because why would they buy it if it didn't meet their requirements specially when they have other options as well. Also they have most probably gone for AK-1 not AK.
> @Dazzler @Horus plz shed some light on capabilities of these tanks.


Al-Khalid tank (Type 90-IIM / MBT-2000) Information Pool | Page 48


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## Majesty

^^ neither AK is going to take the heat. This is just to support Pakistan military industry.


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## Kompromat

الأعرابي said:


> There's better options than Al-Khaled.



Indeed. However none of those Tanks were built for Desert Warfare. AK was built from ground up as a Desert Warfare Tank. We shipped 15 odd examples to RSLF in late 2000s which have since been tested for years. If this purchase is really true then it will be AK-1, an upgrade based on tests carried out by RSLF. Unless you know better about armored warfare than your Army does, they've made this decision based on the capabilities of this machine as conpared to other options available to them.

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## Donatello

Majesty said:


> ^^ neither AK is going to take the heat. This is just to support Pakistan military industry.



The hot and dusty conditions which prevail in Saudia, are also in Pakistan.....the desert of Sindh is very unforgiving and AKs are designed for that......for everything else there are the T80s, Al Zarrars and Type 85

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## Manticore

*Requirements met by al-khalid*


KSA had in principle agreed to buy 150 Al-Khalid tanks worth $600 million. All trails are COMPLETED and some modification have already made to Al-Khalid. (current Al Khalid)

1- Trials at 55 C were successful with very fine dust not making any impediment on the engine and performance of the tank. (not many Indian Tanks have achieved that)

2- Turret power control now is all electrically controlled backed by manual control (KSA)

3- A new European Renk LSG 3000 transmission has been incorporated (KSA) (SESM 500 for Pak)

4- There is some type of &#8216;special&#8217; armor has been installed. During trails this &#8216;special&#8217; armor (on the hull and turret) tested through live firing which defeated all types of 120 & 125 mm tank projectiles. (PA & KSA) (this is the armor is was talking about)

5- Modifications have been completed which resulted in increasing the 125 mm rounds from 39 to 49

6- Ammo storage for 12.7 & 7.62 mm has increased from 1,000 to 1,500 and 4,000 to 7,100 rounds respectively, thus, making Al-Khalid the most heavily weaponized tank in the world.

7- The power pack (engine, transmission & cooling system) can be removed in 30 minutes and reinstalled in 35 minutes.

8- KSA Al-Khalid will be equipped with A/C, APU, DDP (PA also), IBMS (PA also), and active threat-protection system.

HKhan pakdef 2009

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## Hell NO

Czar786 said:


> Like Egypt Saudi is paying for weapons for pakistan so they can be used to fight war on saudi behalf because saudi army is worst then iraq army they will run away when they see their enemy .
> L00king to rent the army please contact Pakistan and Egypt.


Do you have any source that clearly says that saudi bought or payed money for weapons for egypt. Yes saudi arabia, uae and kuite did donated money but that money was to help the economy not the army

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## Manticore

ChrisBV,damian, Militarysta ,Vladimir Ivanovic,ezker22?
Al-Khalid tank (Type 90-IIM / MBT-2000) Information Pool | Page 31


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## Altamimi

ptldM3 said:


> The T-90 operates in hot Indian deserts, T-72s and other Soviet tanks also operate in the middle east, it is not optimized or built for it but it can still operate in hot conditions. Tanks do not just "fail" in the desert, they may have problems with engines but they do not fail at least not every single one.



I guess you don't know what is the Empty Quarter desert. Its not like what you would find in India, it is way hotter than you would think. There the * Leclerc, and Leopard* faced a lot of problems especially with engines

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## Mitro

As you know your country is broke so from where egypt is getting all this money to buy weapons .



Hell NO said:


> Do you have any source that clearly says that saudi bought or payed money for weapons for egypt. Yes saudi arabia, uae and kuite did donated money but that money was to help the economy not the army


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## Metanoia

I am kind of glad that folks under-estimate Al-Khalid  

Like seriously...let 'em...it's all cool lol

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## Altamimi

Donatello said:


> The hot and dusty conditions which prevail in Saudia, are also in Pakistan.....the desert of Sindh is very unforgiving and AKs are designed for that......for everything else there are the T80s, Al Zarrars and Type 85


The army has it own testing grounds in The Empty quarter. There the temperature can be 60C or more in the summer which is the time when most weapons are tested

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## Kompromat

Majesty said:


> ^^ neither AK is going to take the heat. This is just to support Pakistan military industry.



Pakistani military industry is growing at 5-7% a year, we just crossed $1.5 billion dollar mark last year. We are producing around 65% of our own requirements. From backpack UAVs to fighter jets, we are producing all. We don't need 'support'. 

AK being sold to SA will be the most heavily armed MBT/tonne in the world and it will serve RSLF as good as its serving PA. We have 600 on order and there is a reason behind it. AK represents Pakistan's actual armorerd warfare experiance in its design.

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## ptldM3

Altamimi said:


> I guess you don't know what is the Empty Quarter desert. Its not like what you would find in India, it is way hotter than you would think. There the * Leclerc, and Leopard* faced a lot of problems especially with engines





Tank engines have been known to catch fire in high heat especially when pushing them hard. Sand dunes particularly put high stress on engines and transmissions.


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## Cheetah786

Mosamania said:


> A report on Al-Arabiyah after a briefing from a Saudi officer has revealed that Saudi Arabia has indeed purchased 150 Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan for 600M$. The report is here:
> 
> ‫بالفيديو.. أهم صفقات السلاح السعودي‬‎ - YouTube



Good news for our defence industry, but when was this purchase made ?


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## shazlion

Horus said:


> Pakistani military industry is growing at 5-7% a year, we just crossed $1.5 billion dollar mark last year. We are producing around 65% of our own requirements. From backpack UAVs to fighter jets, we are producing all. We don't need 'support'.
> 
> AK being sold to SA will be the most heavily armed MBT/tonne in the world and it will serve RSLF as good as its serving PA. We have 600 on order and there is a reason behind it. AK represents Pakistan's actual armorerd warfare experiance in its design.



We can Sell to Saudi Arabia but No need to Sell to other country then SA as PaK Army needs these Tanks for Near Future Genocidal War with India as Prophecized by Saints of Islam......Trust Me it is very Near

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## Hell NO

Czar786 said:


> As you know your country is broke so from where egypt is getting all this money to buy weapons .


Who told you egypt is broke egypt had some problems yes but it is not broke and even if it was broke the Egyptian army has their own economy . 
The weapons egypt bought in the last two years are from Russia I we all know what is going on between russia and saudi arabia and the other deal is from France and that deal is partly financed by a loan from the French banks and the other part would be payed by the government of egypt no mention of a third party here so what guns did the saudis pay for


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## That Guy

Until I see an official government statement from either side, I won't believe it. Besides, even if it does turn out to be true, I find it suspicious that a deal would go through now of all time. Why now? After years of rejections, why the sudden change of heart? How do we know this isn't some ploy to get Pakistan to join KSA's little coalition?

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## Umair Nawaz

Manticore said:


> 8- KSA Al-Khalid will be equipped with A/C, APU, DDP (PA also), IBMS (PA also), and active threat-protection system..


equipped with what?


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## shazlion

That Guy said:


> Until I see an official government statement from either side, I won't believe it. Besides, even if it does turn out to be true, I find it suspicious that a deal would go through now of all time. Why now? After years of rejections, why the sudden change of heart? How do we know this isn't some ploy to get Pakistan to join KSA's little coalition?



Saudi Arabia Monarchs and it's Establishment Started Wars which they have No Control, They believe USA, UK and West will come for Help against their Wars Iran, Syria and Now Yemen Shia but West is famous of Ditch their Friends, if it do not Suit the Needs of Zionist State of Israel and Jewish Bankers......They already decided to Ditch SA in case of Major War with Iran as Iran started to comply with West in it's Nuclear Deals, Good Luck to SA Monarchs and Establishment as The End of All Monarchs and Dictators






Saudi Arabia Monarchs and it's Establishment Started Wars which they have No Control, They believe USA, UK and West will come for Help for their Wars against Iran, Syria and Now Yemen Shia but West is famous of Ditch their Friends, if it do not Suit the Needs of Zionist State of Israel and Jewish Bankers......They already decided to Ditch SA in case of Major War with Iran as Iran started to comply with West in it's Nuclear Deals, Good Luck to SA Monarchs and Establishment as The End of All Monarchs and Dictators is Near - Insha-Allah & Ameen
SA only True Friend is Pakistan in the World but for Pakistan there is No Real Friend in the World - Pakistan Stand Alone ----------> Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, India, Bangladesh all are Enemies of Pakistan but Some Not serious Friends Pak. have are Saudi Arabia, Turkey and China Rest are in the List of Enemies!


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## Majesty

@Donatello @Horus AK has not been used in any of the of the RSLF training/exercise and the number we bought is small. The RSLF have ordered more MIA2 and all APCs are armed with TOW missiles including the Humvess. If AK met the requirement of RSLF they would have bought large number of it. This is my personal analysis. I could be wrong.

Great cooperation and I hope we don't stop there. We should utilize our resources for the great of both nations.

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## A1Kaid

Are there any photos of Saudi army using the Al-Khalid tanks. If the news is true this is a good development.


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## rAli

Manticore said:


> *Requirements met by al-khalid*
> 
> 8- KSA Al-Khalid will be equipped with A/C, APU, DDP (PA also), IBMS (PA also), and active threat-protection system.



Manti, 

Does point 8 means AK in PA do not have A/C and APU ? If thats true then big 'SALUTE' to the Tank drivers.

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## aliaselin

Manticore said:


> *Requirements met by al-khalid*
> 
> 
> KSA had in principle agreed to buy 150 Al-Khalid tanks worth $600 million. All trails are COMPLETED and some modification have already made to Al-Khalid. (current Al Khalid)
> 
> 1- Trials at 55 C were successful with very fine dust not making any impediment on the engine and performance of the tank. (not many Indian Tanks have achieved that)
> 
> 2- Turret power control now is all electrically controlled backed by manual control (KSA)
> 
> 3- A new European Renk LSG 3000 transmission has been incorporated (KSA) (SESM 500 for Pak)
> 
> 4- There is some type of &#8216;special&#8217; armor has been installed. During trails this &#8216;special&#8217; armor (on the hull and turret) tested through live firing which defeated all types of 120 & 125 mm tank projectiles. (PA & KSA) (this is the armor is was talking about)
> 
> 5- Modifications have been completed which resulted in increasing the 125 mm rounds from 39 to 49
> 
> 6- Ammo storage for 12.7 & 7.62 mm has increased from 1,000 to 1,500 and 4,000 to 7,100 rounds respectively, thus, making Al-Khalid the most heavily weaponized tank in the world.
> 
> 7- The power pack (engine, transmission & cooling system) can be removed in 30 minutes and reinstalled in 35 minutes.
> 
> 8- KSA Al-Khalid will be equipped with A/C, APU, DDP (PA also), IBMS (PA also), and active threat-protection system.


Any citation？


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## OrionHunter

Dr. Stranglove said:


> only 600 million i m greedy i want more
> by the way thats just 4 million a pop even VT4 costs like 5 million


$4 million?  Is Pakistan selling like buy two, get one free?


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## Manticore

aliaselin said:


> Any citation？


HKhan pakdef 2009


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## Dazzler

Umair Nawaz said:


> equipped with what?



AC
Auxiliary power unit for alternate power supply
Digital driver panel

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## Umair Nawaz

Dazzler said:


> AC


our AKs arnt equipped with ACs that i know of not because they cant b but because we just dont have enough money.....


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## Al Bhatti

Cheetah786 said:


> Good news for our defence industry, but when was this purchase made ?





That Guy said:


> Until I see an official government statement from either side, I won't believe it. Besides, even if it does turn out to be true, I find it suspicious that a deal would go through now of all time. Why now? After years of rejections, why the sudden change of heart? How do we know this isn't some ploy to get Pakistan to join KSA's little coalition?






A1Kaid said:


> Are there any photos of Saudi army using the Al-Khalid tanks. If the news is true this is a good development.




-----------------------------


التاريخ: 03 مارس 2014

*اتفاقية*
*مفاوضات سعودية باكستانية حول الدبابة «الخالد» والطائرة «جي إف-17 ثندر»*

تجري المملكة العربية السعودية وباكستان مفاوضات حول اتفاقية شراء معدات عسكرية، تتضمن تصدير باكستان لعدد غير محدد من دبابات «الخالد»، إلى الرياض، فضلاً عن طائرات «جي إف-17 ثندر»، الصينية- الباكستانية. وتشكل هذه الصفقة جزءاً من اتفاقية دفاع أوسع بين البلدين.


من جهته، أكد مسؤول باكستاني أنه: « تدور الاتفاقية الحالية بشكل رئيس حول دبابات الخالد، وطائرات جي إف- 17 ثندر». 


وأضاف المسؤول الباكستاني أنه على الرغم من أن المعدات الحربية للمملكة يغلب عليها الطابع الغربي، فإن الصفقة تمهد الطريق إلى فتح باب تدفق المساعدات المادية إلى باكستان. وتأتي الصفقة جزءاً من العلاقات الخارجية بين البلدين، أكثر منها لسد الحاجة العسكرية للسعودية. وتستفيد باكستان أيضاً من صفقة البيع هذه لتأمين جزء من نفقاتها الداخلية، لا سيما الأمنية منها، فضلاً عن أنها تصب في تطوير المعدات الحربية صينية المنشأ، التي يتم تصديرها عبر باكستان.

مفاوضات سعودية باكستانية حول الدبابة «الخالد» والطائرة «جي إف-17 ثندر» - البيان​As per above news:

Talks were being held for unknown numbers of Al Khalid and JF-17 and this deal was part of a wider Defence deal between the two countries.

As per a Pakistani Official the current deal revolves basically around Al Khalid Tanks and JF-17 Thunder Planes.

-----------------------------------------------------




*Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy close ties in all fields: Analysts*

ISLAMABAD, Feb 18 (APP): Col ® Sultan Sikander Ghuman has said that the Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are two brotherly Muslim countries and they enjoy good relations. Talking to Radio Pakistan, he said that the joint communiqu’ issued at the end of Saudi Crown Prince’s visit to Pakistan clearly stated that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have close bilateral relations in all fields.

He said that the way political cooperation between the two countries was mentioned in the joint declaration is very important. Like other spheres, the two countries also have close relationship in the field of defense,
he added.

Sultan Sikander also said that Saudi Arabia also imported Al-Khalid tanks from Pakistan. 

Former Ambassador Khalid Saleem said that Pakistan has lot of expertise in weapons production and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia can enter into joint venture in arms production. 

He said that there is room for Saudi Arabia to invest in defense sector in Pakistan. Pakistan can also train Saudi engineers in the production of arms, Khalid Saleem said. 

He further added that the two countries can jointly manufacture those weapons which they import from western countries at high prices. 

Defense analyst Brig (R ) Farooq Hameed said that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have close ties in defense sector. 

He said that Pakistani troops have also performed duties in Saudi Arabia in 1990s and can be stationed again if need arises. 

Farooq Hameed said Saudi Arabia is interested in purchasing JF-17 Thunder fighter planes that Pakistan has manufactured jointly with China. 

These planes have almost same capabilities as F-16 but are cheaper in price than F-16, he added.

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy close ties in all fields: Analysts

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## Frosty

Al Bhatti said:


> التاريخ: 03 مارس 2014
> 
> *اتفاقية*
> *مفاوضات سعودية باكستانية حول الدبابة «الخالد» والطائرة «جي إف-17 ثندر»*
> 
> تجري المملكة العربية السعودية وباكستان مفاوضات حول اتفاقية شراء معدات عسكرية، تتضمن تصدير باكستان لعدد غير محدد من دبابات «الخالد»، إلى الرياض، فضلاً عن طائرات «جي إف-17 ثندر»، الصينية- الباكستانية. وتشكل هذه الصفقة جزءاً من اتفاقية دفاع أوسع بين البلدين.
> 
> 
> من جهته، أكد مسؤول باكستاني أنه: « تدور الاتفاقية الحالية بشكل رئيس حول دبابات الخالد، وطائرات جي إف- 17 ثندر».
> 
> 
> وأضاف المسؤول الباكستاني أنه على الرغم من أن المعدات الحربية للمملكة يغلب عليها الطابع الغربي، فإن الصفقة تمهد الطريق إلى فتح باب تدفق المساعدات المادية إلى باكستان. وتأتي الصفقة جزءاً من العلاقات الخارجية بين البلدين، أكثر منها لسد الحاجة العسكرية للسعودية. وتستفيد باكستان أيضاً من صفقة البيع هذه لتأمين جزء من نفقاتها الداخلية، لا سيما الأمنية منها، فضلاً عن أنها تصب في تطوير المعدات الحربية صينية المنشأ، التي يتم تصديرها عبر باكستان.
> 
> مفاوضات سعودية باكستانية حول الدبابة «الخالد» والطائرة «جي إف-17 ثندر» - البيان​As per above news:
> 
> Talks were being held for unknown numbers of Al Khalid and JF-17 and this deal was part of a wider Defence deal between the two countries.
> 
> As per a Pakistani Official the current deal revolves basically around Al Khalid Tanks and JF-17 Thunder Planes.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy close ties in all fields: Analysts*
> 
> ISLAMABAD, Feb 18 (APP): Col ® Sultan Sikander Ghuman has said that the Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are two brotherly Muslim countries and they enjoy good relations. Talking to Radio Pakistan, he said that the joint communiqu’ issued at the end of Saudi Crown Prince’s visit to Pakistan clearly stated that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have close bilateral relations in all fields.
> 
> He said that the way political cooperation between the two countries was mentioned in the joint declaration is very important. Like other spheres, the two countries also have close relationship in the field of defense,
> he added.
> 
> Sultan Sikander also said that Saudi Arabia also imported Al-Khalid tanks from Pakistan.
> 
> Former Ambassador Khalid Saleem said that Pakistan has lot of expertise in weapons production and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia can enter into joint venture in arms production.
> 
> He said that there is room for Saudi Arabia to invest in defense sector in Pakistan. Pakistan can also train Saudi engineers in the production of arms, Khalid Saleem said.
> 
> He further added that the two countries can jointly manufacture those weapons which they import from western countries at high prices.
> 
> Defense analyst Brig (R ) Farooq Hameed said that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have close ties in defense sector.
> He said that Pakistani troops have also performed duties in Saudi Arabia in 1990s and can be stationed again if need arises.
> 
> Farooq Hameed said Saudi Arabia is interested in purchasing JF-17 Thunder fighter planes that Pakistan has manufactured jointly with China.
> 
> These planes have almost same capabilities as F-16 but are cheaper in price than F-16, he added.
> 
> Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy close ties in all fields: Analysts



LOL @ you signature. I cracked the code. Curiosity will be my downfall.

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## Al Bhatti

Frosty said:


> LOL @ you signature. I cracked the code. Curiosity will be my downfall.



That signature is since 2009.

Finally someone did not just think it to be random alphabets. Don't tell anyone keep it an international secret.  


What made you to decode it?

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## Frosty

Al Bhatti said:


> That signature is since 2009.
> 
> Finally someone did not just think it to be random alphabets. Don't tell anyone keep it an international secret.
> 
> 
> What made you to decode it?



lmao will do. Dunno it looked like something i'd type before realising my keyboard is set to another language.

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## Al Bhatti

Al Bhatti said:


> التاريخ: 03 مارس 2014
> 
> *اتفاقية*
> *مفاوضات سعودية باكستانية حول الدبابة «الخالد» والطائرة «جي إف-17 ثندر»*
> 
> تجري المملكة العربية السعودية وباكستان مفاوضات حول اتفاقية شراء معدات عسكرية، تتضمن تصدير باكستان لعدد غير محدد من دبابات «الخالد»، إلى الرياض، فضلاً عن طائرات «جي إف-17 ثندر»، الصينية- الباكستانية. وتشكل هذه الصفقة جزءاً من اتفاقية دفاع أوسع بين البلدين.
> 
> 
> من جهته، أكد مسؤول باكستاني أنه: « تدور الاتفاقية الحالية بشكل رئيس حول دبابات الخالد، وطائرات جي إف- 17 ثندر».
> 
> 
> وأضاف المسؤول الباكستاني أنه على الرغم من أن المعدات الحربية للمملكة يغلب عليها الطابع الغربي، فإن الصفقة تمهد الطريق إلى فتح باب تدفق المساعدات المادية إلى باكستان. وتأتي الصفقة جزءاً من العلاقات الخارجية بين البلدين، أكثر منها لسد الحاجة العسكرية للسعودية. وتستفيد باكستان أيضاً من صفقة البيع هذه لتأمين جزء من نفقاتها الداخلية، لا سيما الأمنية منها، فضلاً عن أنها تصب في تطوير المعدات الحربية صينية المنشأ، التي يتم تصديرها عبر باكستان.
> 
> مفاوضات سعودية باكستانية حول الدبابة «الخالد» والطائرة «جي إف-17 ثندر» - البيان​As per above news:
> 
> Talks were being held for unknown numbers of Al Khalid and JF-17 and this deal was part of a wider Defence deal between the two countries.
> 
> As per a Pakistani Official the current deal revolves basically around Al Khalid Tanks and JF-17 Thunder Planes.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy close ties in all fields: Analysts*
> 
> ISLAMABAD, Feb 18 (APP): Col ® Sultan Sikander Ghuman has said that the Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are two brotherly Muslim countries and they enjoy good relations. Talking to Radio Pakistan, he said that the joint communiqu’ issued at the end of Saudi Crown Prince’s visit to Pakistan clearly stated that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have close bilateral relations in all fields.
> 
> He said that the way political cooperation between the two countries was mentioned in the joint declaration is very important. Like other spheres, the two countries also have close relationship in the field of defense,
> he added.
> 
> Sultan Sikander also said that Saudi Arabia also imported Al-Khalid tanks from Pakistan.
> 
> Former Ambassador Khalid Saleem said that Pakistan has lot of expertise in weapons production and Pakistan and Saudi Arabia can enter into joint venture in arms production.
> 
> He said that there is room for Saudi Arabia to invest in defense sector in Pakistan. Pakistan can also train Saudi engineers in the production of arms, Khalid Saleem said.
> 
> He further added that the two countries can jointly manufacture those weapons which they import from western countries at high prices.
> 
> Defense analyst Brig (R ) Farooq Hameed said that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have close ties in defense sector.
> He said that Pakistani troops have also performed duties in Saudi Arabia in 1990s and can be stationed again if need arises.
> 
> Farooq Hameed said Saudi Arabia is interested in purchasing JF-17 Thunder fighter planes that Pakistan has manufactured jointly with China.
> 
> These planes have almost same capabilities as F-16 but are cheaper in price than F-16, he added.
> 
> Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Pakistan and Saudi Arabia enjoy close ties in all fields: Analysts




Below is even more older news from 20-Jan-2006

Pakistan offered Qatar armed forces military training in Pakistan during the Qatari COAS's meeting with Defence Minister Rao Sikander Iqbal in Rawalpindi.

The news also states that the Pakistani Navy has conducted joint trainings with several countries in the last few months among which are China, USA and KSA, and has received a very positive response from several navies in Middle East, the Gulf, and South East Asia to purchase it's small locally made submarines. Probably KSA will buy Al Khalid tanks from Pakistan. *The tank is currently undergoing necessary tests in the Kingdom.*



 التاريخ: 20 يناير 2006

*باكستان تعرض على قطر دورات تدريبية عسكرية*
*باكستان تعرض على قطر دورات تدريبية عسكرية*

ذكر بيان رسمي أن باكستان قدمت أمس عرضاً لإجراء دورات تدريبية للقوات المسلحة القطرية في مؤسساتها العسكرية الرائدة.وكان العرض قد قدم إلى اللواء الركن حمد بن العطية رئيس أركان القوات المسلحة القطرية خلال لقائه بوزير الدفاع الباكستاني راو اسكندر إقبال في مدينة روالبندي.

وتقدم المؤسسات العسكرية الباكستانية مثل كلية الدفاع الوطني بالإضافة إلى الجيش والأكاديمية البحرية والجوية بانتظام دورات تدريبية وتمنح تدريباً وتعليماً عسكرياً لعدد كبير من الضباط وطلاب الكليات العسكرية من الدول الإسلامية في منطقة الشرق الأوسط والخليج.

وقال البيان إن الجانبين ناقشا أيضا احتمالية عقد دورات تدريبية بحرية مشتركة مؤكداً على الحاجة إلى تقوية المستوى الحالي من التعاون بين البلدين.

يذكر أن البحرية الباكستانية التي أجرت تدريبات مشتركة مع عدد من الدول بينها الصين والولايات المتحدة والسعودية تلقت في الأشهر الأخيرة رداً »إيجابياً للغاية« من العديد من قوات البحرية في الشرق الأوسط والخليج وجنوب شرق آسيا لشراء غواصاتها الصغيرة محلية الصنع. ومن المحتمل أن تشترى السعودية دبابات الخالد من باكستان. وتخضع الدبابة حاليا لاختبارات ضرورية في المملكة.

باكستان تعرض على قطر دورات تدريبية عسكرية - البيان​


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## aliaselin

ptldM3 said:


> Russia has sabot round that are reported to have 800mm penetration. Even a conservative 3BM-42M round has 650mm penetration.








Official data is 230mm/60 degree(400~420 mm vertically)

Compared to MBT-2000 used II-M(550 mm vertically)

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## ptldM3

aliaselin said:


> View attachment 210209
> 
> Official data is 230mm/60 degree(400~420 mm vertically)




You are reading that chart wrong, that is listed under the 3vbm17.


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## aliaselin

ptldM3 said:


> 3vbm17


3vbm17 is gun


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## ptldM3

aliaselin said:


> 3vbm17 is gun




No, it's not, that's the GRAU round designation. No such gun exists for any Soviet tank, you are confused. The 3vbm17 is a very old mango round and not a gun; it has no relation to the 3bm-42m.


The round is clearly listed in the link below.

125MM APFSDS ROUNDS


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## aliaselin

ptldM3 said:


> No, it's not, that's the GRAU round designation. No such gun exists for any Soviet tank gun, you are confused.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 125MM APFSDS ROUNDS


Sorry, it is cartridge


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## Arsalan

kaku1 said:


> Ever you met any sales man that says " Please dont buy my product, it have no chance against any other product in market?".





farhan_9909 said:


> well i have indeed studied a polish tank expert views where he claimed that the armour of Al khalid must be comparable to t-80ud of Pakistan,which he said to be better than the t-90s in service with india.
> 
> Apart from Armour,Al khalid does has electronics,engine and firepower edge over t-90 and even arjun.infact as per him,currently Pakistan hold the best APFSDS in south asia


 i don't think i have to add any thing to this.


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## Dr. Strangelove

OrionHunter said:


> $4 million?  Is Pakistan selling like buy two, get one free?


most probably its all bullshit

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## Bobby

Congratulation Pakistan


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## graphican

shazlion said:


> We can Sell to Saudi Arabia but No need to Sell to other country then SA as PaK Army needs these Tanks for Near Future Genocidal War with India as Prophecized by Saints of Islam......Trust Me it is very Near



We are waiting for the day - the war which will start between two Eids, and last 6 months or 6 years. There may be difference of opinion on the duration but everybody has agreement on the outcome 

Keep the country strong and add strength to it - our challenge is one of the hardest one which time have seen.




> Farooq Hameed said Saudi Arabia is interested in purchasing JF-17 Thunder fighter planes that Pakistan has manufactured jointly with China.




Now that is the actual news  Hope they buy equal nambers as tanks :p

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## Arsalan

kaku1 said:


> Tell me whats the troll in this. The great TT who always believe in sources are now came to believe this crap? You are genius. You trolling or me trolling?
> 
> I even know this Polish guy who written those thing, and you would be amazed how your brother molded the whole story. If I am allowed I post the link too.
> 
> So please dont try to play smart with me, because you ultimately fail. So, next time, think two time before quoting me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now where your Polish guy said Al-Khalid is superior to T-90? Or you want to make another cook up story?



Making long arguments, using harsh words wont help you cause one bit. You talk about facts and it amazes me for a guy who have just mentioned a POLISH poster's comments as "Have you seen any one saying don't buy my product as it is bad" what facts where you talking about? that Poland and Pakistan starts with P so they are the same? It is amazing that you claim to KNOW this polish guy still said that he is only saying this because Al-Khalid is HIS tank!!

I was JUST referencing to that mistake. If you are embarrassed or arrogant enough not to admit it better stop posting on this issue. If you find it hard to admit to your mistakes better stop making such stupid ones.


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## kaku1

Arsalan said:


> Tell me whats the troll in this. The great TT who always believe in sources are now came to believe this crap? You are genius. You trolling or me trolling?
> 
> I even know this Polish guy who written those thing, and you would be amazed how your brother molded the whole story. If I am allowed I post the link too.
> 
> So please dont try to play smart with me, because you ultimately fail. So, next time, think two time before quoting me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now where your Polish guy said Al-Khalid is superior to T-90? Or you want to make another cook up story?



Making long arguments, using harsh words wont help you cause one bit. You talk about facts and it amazes me for a guy who have just mentioned a POLISH poster's comments as "Have you seen any one saying don't buy my product as it is bad" what facts where you talking about? that Poland and Pakistan starts with P so they are the same? It is amazing that you claim to KNOW this polish guy still said that he is only saying this because Al-Khalid is HIS tank!!
[/QUOTE]

Benefit me? Did this all PDF benefiting me at all? Did I earning a single penny from this. 

And yes, this was comment of farhaan, because he knew what the guy had said. But if you want fight me, bro I am always ready.

And one thing more, I remain always arrogant for arrogant people.



> I was JUST referencing to that mistake. If you are embarrassed or arrogant enough not to admit it better stop posting on this issue. If you find it hard to admit to your mistakes better stop making such stupid ones.


Which mistake? Here we start battle of egos. Dont worry I have big ego too.


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## Dazzler

kaku1 said:


> Making long arguments, using harsh words wont help you cause one bit. You talk about facts and it amazes me for a guy who have just mentioned a POLISH poster's comments as "Have you seen any one saying don't buy my product as it is bad" what facts where you talking about? that Poland and Pakistan starts with P so they are the same? It is amazing that you claim to KNOW this polish guy still said that he is only saying this because Al-Khalid is HIS tank!!



Benefit me? Did this all PDF benefiting me at all? Did I earning a single penny from this.

And yes, this was comment of farhaan, because he knew what the guy had said. But if you want fight me, bro I am always ready.

And one thing more, I remain always arrogant for arrogant people.


Which mistake? Here we start battle of egos. Dont worry I have big ego too.[/QUOTE]

Militarysta asked me specs of alkhalid armour and thickness I measured in 2008, he agreed with it through his measurements. Go did that post on your beloved forum. I don't want any more embarrassment for you kid.

And you think bringing out a post from 2011 will serve your purpose? Next time, search more posts where THEY have acknowledged their lack of information

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## Mitro

Hell NO said:


> Do you have any source that clearly says that saudi bought or payed money for weapons for egypt. Yes saudi arabia, uae and kuite did donated money but that money was to help the economy not the army



As you know America just realized weapons of $1.3b why america lifted the sanction because of saud order so saud can rent Egypt army and air force to fight their war .egyptian army is one of the best in gulf region .


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## salarsikander

Majesty said:


> neither AK is going to take the heat. This is just to support Pakistan military industry


Hi , 
And you seem to know lot about it, You have been barely here for a week and started to show your pathetic ignorance. 

Plus it snot like you have much choice here, Do you ?


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## Bobby

$ 4 million per tank...cheapest tank in the world


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## Kurlang

Today is 1st April.....

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## My-Analogous

الأعرابي said:


> We can get more Abrams, Or negotiate on the Leopard 2A7+, Challenger 2, Type 10, Leclerc, K2 Black Panther, Altay Etc......
> 
> 
> 
> If the T-90 didn't meet the requirements you think Al-Khalid will?! If the news is true then most likely they bought it for political reasons.



So what do you think Al Khalid 2 will have missing. What configuration AK-2 must have?



OrionHunter said:


> $4 million?  Is Pakistan selling like buy two, get one free?



So imagine what will be the cost price for AK?


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## Frogman

Czar786 said:


> As you know America just realized weapons of $1.3b why america lifted the sanction because of saud order so saud can rent Egypt army and air force to fight their war .egyptian army is one of the best in gulf region .



The release of the delayed arms does not drastically alter Egypt's capabilities and is a result of a process and political wrangling that has been going on between Cairo and Washington for over two years. KSA has naught to do with it.


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## I M Sikander

All those who are complaining abt alkhalid tank . should mind there own business. Saudis know their requirements much better than any one else. 

Indeed it is the biggest military export order of pakistan.
Lets see who opt for arjan.


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## Sinnerman108

Altamimi said:


> I guess you don't know what is the Empty Quarter desert. Its not like what you would find in India, it is way hotter than you would think. There the * Leclerc, and Leopard* faced a lot of problems especially with engines



There is a reason it is called the empty quarter, 

NOTHING survives there, not even tanks.


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## Donatello

Saudia purchases Pakistani tanks..........Indians everywhere.



Ranasikander said:


> All those who are complaining abt alkhalid tank . should mind there own business. Saudis know their requirements much better than any one else.
> 
> Indeed it is the biggest military export order of pakistan.
> Lets see who opt for arjan.



Even Indian Army didn't want it. Don't you see how many T-72s and T-90 they ordered? Arjun was shoved down their throats.

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## Mitro

America don't give sh$t about human rights or democracy they just want the country to fellow their order and now egypt is doing that and working for uncle sam like saudi is doing just fellowing the order .
once they get what the want they will throw you guys like used tissue paper .



Frogman said:


> The release of the delayed arms does not drastically alter Egypt's capabilities and is a result of a process and political wrangling that has been going on between Cairo and Washington for over two years. KSA has naught to do with it.


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## Frogman

Czar786 said:


> America don't give sh$t about human rights or democracy they just want the country to fellow their order and now egypt is doing that and working for uncle sam like saudi is doing just fellowing the order .
> once they get what the want they will throw you guys like used tissue paper .



OK.


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## The SC



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## Altamimi

Sinnerman108 said:


> There is a reason it is called the empty quarter,
> 
> NOTHING survives there, not even tanks.


Actually, the M1 Abrams preformed well in the Empty Quarter, better than any other tank we've tested


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## Sinnerman108

Altamimi said:


> Actually, the M1 Abrams preformed well in the Empty Quarter, better than any other tank we've tested



so the sand did nothing to the turbines ?

How long for ? what was the MTTF ? MTTR ?


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## The SC

*High demand of 'Al-Khalid' tank in modern warfare*
September 06, 2009

KARACHI - Pakistans Al Khalid Tank is widely being considered one of the most competent Main Battle Tanks (MBTs) in the global arms market.
The Al Khalid II is said to have a new armor that has been tested to defeat all known 120mm and 125mm rounds.
This special armour is a major technological breakthrough for Pakistan.
The tank has received a new transmission and revised electronic turret control.
This was stated by Syed Muhammad Ali, the first certified military concept tank designer of Pakistan, while talking to The Nation.
He said that the Al Khalid II has a new Integrated Battle Management System (IBMS) and active threat-protection system, the latter being an upgrade from the passive system in the earlier model.
The tank is now perhaps the most heavily weaponized per tonnage of any tank, being able to carry 49 125mm rounds, 1,500 12.7mm and 7,100 7.62mm rounds.
He said that Al-Khalid is modern battle tank developed by Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT).
Al Khalid consists of all the modern technologies required by latest generation tanks.
Alkhalid is fitted with Ukranian engine that generated 1200 horse power. It has six forward automatic transmission.
Its top speed is 72km/h.
It weighs 47 tonnes.
Al-Khalid is operated by a three man crew; a driver, a gunner, and a commander.
Al-khalid consist of a self loading 125m smooth bore gun.
It can also fire HEAT and APFSDS (Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot) rounds.
It automatically load, fire and eject the empty case.
Because of self loading gun, the crew number is reduced.
The gun is equipped with a stabilizing system which provides accurate shot of the target even if the tank is moving.
It also comes with an imaging system which enables the crew members to track down various targets and engage them.
It is also equipped with a 7.
62mm co-axial machine gun and a 12.
5mm anti-aircraft gun mounted above it.
In terms of sheer numbers, Forecast International expects Pakistans Al Khalid, the Type 98 of the Peoples Republic of China, and the Russian Federations T-90 (including Indias licensed T-90S production program) to continue to dominate the market.
In the international market for main battle tanks, the days of U.
S.
and European domination over new production are long gone.
Al Khalid is also equipped with night vision devices that enables it for combat at night time.
It also has protection for NBC (Nuclear, Biological & chemical) warfare and thus the crew member would be safe incase of NBC fallout.
Al-Khalid can also be fitted with Explosives Reactive Armor (ERA).
Al-Khalid is currently in service with the Pakistan Army.
Pakistan also export Al Khalid to various countries like Saudi-Arabia.

IS militants enter Damascus refugee camp

This was Al Khalid one...!


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## Hell NO

Czar786 said:


> America don't give sh$t about human rights or democracy they just want the country to fellow their order and now egypt is doing that and working for uncle sam like saudi is doing just fellowing the order .
> once they get what the want they will throw you guys like used tissue paper .


I don't think egypt would change their policy for 1.3 billion I mean think about it egypt would spend more than 1.3 billion if they got involved in a war for the saudi. You are right by the way 1.3 billion can only buy used tissue nowadays they would have done much more back in the 70's but not now


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## Altamimi

Altamimi said:


> Actually, the M1 Abrams preformed well in the Empty Quarter, better than any tank





Sinnerman108 said:


> so the sand did nothing to the turbines ?
> 
> How long for ? what was the MTTF ? MTTR ?




Its not only about engine performance, there are other electronic stuff that coped really well in our weather. Overall, the M1 was way better and this was said by someone who I know in the army. I didn't ask him alot about details, he just said it that the M1 performed well especially the latest model the M1A2S


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## Kompromat

Al-Khalid 1.

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## Sargodhian_Eagle

Beast said:


> Sorry, type 99 is not for sale. The best for export currently from China is VT-4


I hope, PA will be the first customer when it will be available for sale.

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## shazlion

And you think T-72s are dangerous when the old monkey model AMX-30s slaughtered them in the Gulf War. Get with it guy, the T-72 has proven time and again it is no match for modern armour and that is in essence what the Type 99 is, a modernised T-72. It will end up the same against modern armour as it did against yesterdays armour in the Gulf War...


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## Audio

Lubrication, so that Saudi request for Pakistani troops in Yemen goes down the throat easier.
You can't all be so gullible to not make this connection that this has happened right now.


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## Majesty

Photo of the M1A2S Abrams Saudi variants.

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## Akasa

shazlion said:


> And you think T-72s are dangerous when the old monkey model AMX-30s slaughtered them in the Gulf War. Get with it guy, the T-72 has proven time and again it is no match for modern armour and that is in essence what the Type 99 is, a modernised T-72. It will end up the same against modern armour as it did against yesterdays armour in the Gulf War...



There is no evidence to support the claim that there is a connection between the Type 99 series and the T-72, the latter of which wasn't even procured by the Chinese.


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## shazlion

USA sold Degraded Versions of M1A2S Abrams variants to Saudi Arabia and Iraq

They are Useless in case SA and Iraq goes to War with Israel and USA with NATO - They will be destroyed like what happened to T-72 MBTs in Iraq Gulf War
Saudi and Iraq are better off buying German MBTs *Leopard 2A6 (Germany)



*, Al-Khalid Tanks and it's Variants from Pakistan, Germany, Russia and China like* T-90A/S (Russia), Challenger 2 (United Kingdom), Type 96 (China), Type 99 (China) etc*


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## black-hawk_101

Then KSA should join in with HIT for this program and produce on their own.

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## shazlion

USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq


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## Wasteland

shazlion said:


> USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq




Actually, Egypt manufactures their own Abrams and they use their own special armors, so, US can't "sell" degraded Abrams to Egypt because Egypt doesn't buy them... According to the Americans they tested the Egyptian made Abrams and said it matches the American tanks.

The Iraqi army is losing the tanks easily because they are using it foolishly, driving into obvious ambushes with no plan, air cover, or reconnaissance. The "un-degraded" American Abrams itself was also raped in Iraq by militants during the Iraq war.


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## Super Falcon

Any photos of am with Saudi forces


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## Desert Fox

Well, this deal was most likely politically motivated. Saudis could have chosen more advanced tanks from Western countries. Al-Khalid is a great Tank, but i doubt it out-performed Tanks currently in Saudi inventory. These tanks are most likely for Pakistani troops to be deployed in the Kingdom.


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## Zarvan

Mosamania said:


> A report on Al-Arabiyah after a briefing from a Saudi officer has revealed that Saudi Arabia has indeed purchased 150 Al-Khalid Tanks from Pakistan for 600M$. The report is here:
> 
> ‫بالفيديو.. أهم صفقات السلاح السعودي‬‎ - YouTube


Have those Tanks arrived in KSA or just the order has been given


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## SipahSalar

Does KSA really need Al-Khalids? Pakistani government shouldn't embarrass KSA into buying Al-Khalids out of courtesy.
Anyhow, i won't believe it till Janes says something.


masud said:


> I thought saudi arabia is interested to purchase leo 2a7+.........





flamer84 said:


> There goes the Leo, i guess...


Germany halts arms exports to Saudi Arabia citing regional instability – report — RT News

As for Abrams, i don't know why they didn't go for it. Anyhow this is probably a rumor. Janes smells such deals months away and they haven't said anything so far.

This deal could also be a bribery to push Pakistan into Yemen.


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## jaunty

Quid pro quo?


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## alimobin memon

Al Khalid may not be superior to Leopard but it sure can defeat it in many scenarios. we tend to underestimate ourselves and overestimate west always. U guys forget that t72 used in gulf war was heavily degraded so a true comparison never happened only in russian tests where m256 gun smuggled or got some way was having difficulty penetrating t80 and t72 latest upgrades. In real war and weapons true potential (not degraded weapons) gulf war for example would have different history.



SipahSalar said:


> Does KSA really need Al-Khalids? Pakistani government shouldn't embarrass KSA into buying Al-Khalids out of courtesy.
> Anyhow, i won't believe it till Janes says something.
> 
> 
> Germany halts arms exports to Saudi Arabia citing regional instability – report — RT News
> 
> As for Abrams, i don't know why they didn't go for it. Anyhow this is probably a rumor. Janes smells such deals months away and they haven't said anything so far.
> 
> This deal could also be a bribery to push Pakistan into Yemen.


Janes are reliable source indeed but until or unless govt gives signal they cant just publish every military deal. remember it still is a private company not some Govt led media group


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## volatile

Us did sold them with inferior armour and capabilities ,poor Saudi`s with all that money still got ripped off by American`s ,Al Khalid may be inferior to these names but one thing is for sure ,it is true to its value no rip off`s (What ever we have in tech will be offered to KSA).In other words bang for bucks (AL-Khalid) .I think its time they start investing in Pak defence sector where we can mature Chinese tech with them.


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## Zarvan

SipahSalar said:


> Does KSA really need Al-Khalids? Pakistani government shouldn't embarrass KSA into buying Al-Khalids out of courtesy.
> Anyhow, i won't believe it till Janes says something.
> 
> 
> Germany halts arms exports to Saudi Arabia citing regional instability – report — RT News
> 
> As for Abrams, i don't know why they didn't go for it. Anyhow this is probably a rumor. Janes smells such deals months away and they haven't said anything so far.
> 
> This deal could also be a bribery to push Pakistan into Yemen.


KSA is testing AL-KHALID since 2009 and Al-Khalid has beaten many Tanks in Desert Tests and USA is not ready to sell large number of Abrams because of Israel and Germany refused to sell Leopard


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## Dr.Thrax

I know AK-1 is a great tank, but the question is, why didn't Saudi Arabia explore other options? Such as the T-84 Yatagan, 120mm gun, can be fit with any FCS, etc...Or at least an AK-1 with a 120mm gun? I know it's not easy modifying tanks for new guns, but again, Ukraine offers a 120mm gun that is compatible with the replacement of the 125mm. Unless they did check out T-84, they might have missed on a great deal. T-84 Yatagan has the Leclerc-style autoloader, and therefore is very safe. Beats me why they didn't go that route. But anyways, congrats to Pakistan for this sale.

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## SipahSalar

Dr.Thrax said:


> I know AK-1 is a great tank, but the question is, why didn't Saudi Arabia explore other options? Such as the T-84 Yatagan, 120mm gun, can be fit with any FCS, etc...Or at least an AK-1 with a 120mm gun? I know it's not easy modifying tanks for new guns, but again, Ukraine offers a 120mm gun that is compatible with the replacement of the 125mm. Unless they did check out T-84, they might have missed on a great deal. T-84 Yatagan has the Leclerc-style autoloader, and therefore is very safe. Beats me why they didn't go that route. But anyways, congrats to Pakistan for this sale.


Is there any advantage that the 120mm T-84 gun has over the 125mm gun of AK?


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## Dr.Thrax

SipahSalar said:


> Is there any advantage that the 120mm T-84 gun has over the 125mm gun of AK?


120mm guns are better. They have 1 piece ammunition and therefore can have much safer bustle-mounted storage. Besides, Saudi Arabia already operates 120mm guns, why introduce another, arguably less safe calibre?


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## SipahSalar

Dr.Thrax said:


> 120mm guns are better. They have 1 piece ammunition and therefore can have much safer bustle-mounted storage. Besides, Saudi Arabia already operates 120mm guns, why introduce another, arguably less safe calibre?


What do you mean by 1 piece ammunition?


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## Kompromat

Dr.Thrax said:


> 120mm guns are better. They have 1 piece ammunition and therefore can have much safer bustle-mounted storage. Besides, Saudi Arabia already operates 120mm guns, why introduce another, arguably less safe calibre?



125mm round has its advantages. The AK-1 which may be sold to Saudi Arabia has a 49 round capacity at 9 rounds / minute rate of fire.

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## Dr.Thrax

SipahSalar said:


> What do you mean by 1 piece ammunition?


125mm guns use 2 piece ammunition, the charge and the actual projectile are separate. This is the same with 120mm rifled British guns. However, all smoothbore 120mm guns (unless the 120mm Russian gun by FSUE also uses 2 piece ammo) use 1 piece ammunition, meaning the charge and projectile are together.



Horus said:


> 125mm round has its advantages. The AK-1 which may be sold to Saudi Arabia has a 49 round capacity at 9 rounds / minute rate of fire.


True, but I have seen many entertaining videos of 125mm ammunition cook offs in Syria. Wouldn't want that happening to a Saudi or Pakistani crew. 120mm guns with autoloaders can achieve the same. IIRC Pakistan's Naiza round has ~550-600mm of penetration, and it's DU, which last time I checked is hazardous to crews and the environment.


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## Kompromat

Dr.Thrax said:


> 125mm guns use 2 piece ammunition, the charge and the actual projectile are separate. This is the same with 120mm rifled British guns. However, all smoothbore 120mm guns (unless the 120mm Russian gun by FSUE also uses 2 piece ammo) use 1 piece ammunition, meaning the charge and projectile are together.
> 
> True, but I have seen many entertaining videos of 125mm ammunition cook offs in Syria. Wouldn't want that happening to a Saudi or Pakistani crew. 120mm guns with autoloaders can achieve the same. IIRC Pakistan's Naiza round has ~550-600mm of penetration, and it's DU, which last time I checked is hazardous to crews and the environment.



But then again, DU rounds come with obvious combat advantages. BTW - Pakistan Army uses 125mm caliber for all of our tanks.

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## SipahSalar

Dr.Thrax said:


> 125mm guns use 2 piece ammunition, the charge and the actual projectile are separate. This is the same with 120mm rifled British guns. However, all smoothbore 120mm guns (unless the 120mm Russian gun by FSUE also uses 2 piece ammo) use 1 piece ammunition, meaning the charge and projectile are together.


All modern tank guns are smoothbore, only the British are still sticking to Rifled guns. AK uses a 125mm smoothbore gun.


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## Dr.Thrax

Horus said:


> But then again, DU rounds come with obvious combat advantages.


True (like self-sharpening), but the Germans found that Tungsten Carbide penetrators are more effective, although considering you guys have nukes using leftover DU is the most obvious (and cheap) choice.



SipahSalar said:


> All modern tank guns are smoothbore, only the British are still sticking to Rifled guns. AK uses a 125mm smoothbore gun.


I know that, that's exactly what I said in my post. 



Horus said:


> BTW - Pakistan Army uses 125mm caliber for all of our tanks.


I know, but Saudi uses 90, 105, and 120mm. That's already enough logistical problems. Now there is one more added to the list.


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## Kompromat

Dr.Thrax said:


> True (like self-sharpening), but the Germans found that Tungsten Carbide penetrators are more effective, although considering you guys have nukes using leftover DU is the most obvious (and cheap) choice.
> 
> I know that, that's exactly what I said in my post.



Please introduce yourself and if you have any military experience. Thanks 

Here > Members Introduction


----------



## Donatello

Dr.Thrax said:


> True, but I have seen many entertaining videos of 125mm ammunition cook offs in Syria. Wouldn't want that happening to a Saudi or Pakistani crew. 120mm guns with autoloaders can achieve the same. IIRC Pakistan's Naiza round has ~550-600mm of penetration, and it's DU, which last time I checked is hazardous to crews and the environment.



Just like when you go for an X-ray, you are supposed to cover your vital organs from any unintended exposure, there are guidelines on how to use the DU rounds. Ammunition is not like a tennis ball, that you are going to play catch with. The added environment risk does come with it's advantages....the penetrating power of a DU. BTW, war was never an environment friendly way of dealing with issues.

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## Dr.Thrax

Horus said:


> Please introduce yourself and if you have any military experience. Thanks
> 
> Here > Members Introduction


I've been on this form since November, but I guess I did forget to introduce myself.

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## Kompromat

Dr.Thrax said:


> I know, but Saudi uses 90, 105, and 120mm. That's already enough logistical problems. Now there is one more added to the list.



That's right, down here though, we are using 125mm as a standard round through smoothbore gun developed by Pakistan. The new VT-4 prototype we are testing under Al-Haider program also has a 125mm gun. On the artillery side, we are going to have a standard 155mm round, including guided rounds. KSA has huge budget, it can afford to have a diverse set of options for its ammunition.

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## SipahSalar

@Dr.Thrax I agree with you on KSA having options. They have a huge budget so I don't know why they went for Al-Khalids. They may be looking for some inter-operability between KSA and Pak forces I suspect.

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## Dr.Thrax

SipahSalar said:


> @Dr.Thrax I agree with you on KSA having options. They have a huge budget so I don't know why they went for Al-Khalids. They may be looking for some inter-operability between KSA and Pak forces I suspect.


True, and I suspect Pakistan getting possibly involved with Yemen also has something to do with it. Saudi were denied their Leopards, but they definitely had the chance to go for Leclercs, something the UAE were able to do. The Leclerc is really good. They could've also gone for the K2 Black Panther. But I guess Al-Khalid is a good change in the Saudi military philosophy, a small change there won't hurt.


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## KingMamba

Dr.Thrax said:


> True, and I suspect Pakistan getting possibly involved with Yemen also has something to do with it. Saudi were denied their Leopards, but they definitely had the chance to go for Leclercs, something the UAE were able to do. The Leclerc is really good. They could've also gone for the K2 Black Panther. But I guess Al-Khalid is a good change in the Saudi military philosophy, a small change there won't hurt.



150 is a small order, I agree with the Saudi dude who said it was a political buy.


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## Zarvan

KingMamba said:


> 150 is a small order, I agree with the Saudi dude who said it was a political buy.


Saudis are not idiot to do politcan buying they have been testing this Tank for years and it has performed better than Russian and few western Tanks because it is specially designed for Desert. Hardly any other Tank is designed for this purpose

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## Super Falcon

Still I doubt it no pics of AK with Saudis I think our friend live in dreams


----------

