# China will receive 91pc revenues from Gwadar port for 40 years



## Shahzaz ud din

*China will receive 91pc revenues from Gwadar port for 40 years*
By News Desk -
November 25, 2017
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*ISLAMABAD: *China will receive 91 percent of the revenues set to be received from Gwadar Port and 9pc will go to Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) for a period of 40 years, the Senate was informed on Friday.

The details were shared by Federal Minister for Ports and Shipping Mir Hasil Bizenjo with senators after they showed their worries over concealment over China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) long-term agreement, reported _Dawn._

Bizenjo said the agreement was reached on build-operate and transfer model negotiated for a period of 40 years. PML-N’s Senator Kalsoom Parveen of PML-N said agreement had not been inked on basis of parity as had been done with India, she said.

Parveen asked Chairman Senate Raza Rabbani to call for a meeting in which all related departments which signed the agreement should be present. On this request, Rabbani highlighted about the presence of two committees in relation to CPEC, a parliamentary panel and senate committee.

Rabbani asked Parveen to take up this issue with Senate committee on CPEC. Pakhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PkMAP) Senator Sardar Azam Musakhel decried that no chairman of the two committees was from Balochistan and accused that China had been provided a concession.

And Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Senator Mohsin Aziz, said the involvement of business community was a must in inking of such business dealings, a task which be believed shouldn’t be left to bureaucrats.

PML-N Senator Javed Abbasi said CPEC would offer immense benefits to Pakistan and defended the agreement. He said power projects under CPEC would resolve Pakistan’s energy crisis and several are being established in Sind and Balochistan.


TAGS
CPEC
Gwadar Port
power projects
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## Ryuzaki

Pretty sweet deal for Chinese,no wonder they are so keen on it
Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?

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## punit

Is this real

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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Ryuzaki said:


> Pretty sweet deal for Chinese,no wonder they are so keen on it
> Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?


CPEC is not only gawader port.
they will get 91 percent from.port revenue.
and we will earn many times more through transportation , toll taxes and increase in business activities along with a second economic hub after Karachi .
in short we will benefit more than the Chinese from this port deal.
and one thing more this 9 percent isn't less too. gawader will earn billions through Chinese ships alone and we will get billions for free,which is better than nothing without any port.

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## Clutch

Ryuzaki said:


> Pretty sweet deal for Chinese,no wonder they are so keen on it
> Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?



It's called BOT... pakistan at the end get an infrastructure it didn't have to spend $$$$ for. 

Sweet deal for both. ... I say more.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China trades 1 Trillion Dollar in 1 year 
9% of 1 Trillion = 90 Billion Dollars for Pakistan 

Seems reasonable

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## Clutch

Kathin_Singh said:


>




It's called BOT... pakistan at the end get an in infrastructure it didn't have to spend $$$$ for.

Who's laughing now...

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## Ryuzaki

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China trades 1 Trillion Dollar in 1 year
> 9% of 1 Trillion = 90 Billion Dollars for Pakistan
> 
> Seems reasonable



Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?

Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009



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## Kathin_Singh

Clutch said:


> It's called BOT... pakistan at the end get an in infrastructure it didn't have to spend $$$$ for.
> 
> Who's laughing now...



Out of so called 'investment' how much is loan and at what interest rate? 

Who is laughing now...Chinese ofcourse!

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## Clutch

Kathin_Singh said:


> Out of so called 'investment' how much is loan and at what interest rate?
> 
> Who is laughing now...Chinese ofcourse!



Gwadar is being developed 100% on Chinese own money... the Chinese were given 40 year lease to Build Own Transfer.

*Pakistan does not have any loans or debts for Gwadar. 

BOT *is the best opportunity start a city from scratch based on the model of Shanghai Free Trade Zone (SFTZ) in Gwadar to interlink the entire region, including Pakistan, Iran, China and Central Asian States.

Win-win

However ... I understand your issue... here is your cure:





Here educate yourself: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build–operate–transfer

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## The SC

*B*uild-*O*perate and *T*ransfer model negotiated for a period of 40 years..This is also the model for Russia's success in signing so many deals for Nuclear plants..4 nuclear reactors will cost a nation almost $30 billion which it cannot come up with otherwise..so Russia finance it for that amount and build the Plant with" payment" spread on 25 years through generated electricity revenues..So it a win -win deal where both benefit.. and at the end of the deal, everything is transferred to the host nation.. with a lot of value plus..like expertise, know-how and qualified Engineers and technicians.. if not a lot of ToT also..
I think in the case of Gwadar port, the Chinese will get back their investments through the ports revenue, the same as the Russians do through the generated electricity revenues..

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## Kathin_Singh

Clutch said:


> Gwadar is being developed 100% on Chinese own money... the Chinese were given 40 year lease to Build Own Transfer.
> 
> *Pakistan does not have any loans or debts for Gwadar.
> 
> BOT *is the best opportunity start a city from scratch based on the model of Shanghai Free Trade Zone (SFTZ) in Gwadar to interlink the entire region, including Pakistan, Iran, China and Central Asian States.
> 
> Win-win
> 
> However ... I understand your issue... here is your cure:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here educate yourself: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build–operate–transfer



Trying to fool me with nonsense?

Answer me .. Who operated Gwadar port from 2007 to 2013?


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## DarX

Kathin_Singh said:


> Trying to fool me with nonsense?
> 
> Answer me .. Who operated Gwadar port from 2007 to 2013?



I believe it was a Singapore company, who failed to develop the port and so their contract was cancelled. What's your point?



Ryuzaki said:


> Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
> For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?
> 
> Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?



Karakoram highway was blocked at Lowari pass but that has been resolved with Lowari tunnel. Now the traffic flows through out the year. Not only that, but other roads are being upgraded to enhance the capacity of the route to handle the traffic.



Ryuzaki said:


> Pretty sweet deal for Chinese,no wonder they are so keen on it
> Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?



The port was hardly generating anything in its current form. But the main benefit will be that the area will see economic activities which will outweigh both the cost of security and the entire revenue of the port.

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## Clutch

Kathin_Singh said:


> Trying to fool me with nonsense?
> 
> Answer me .. Who operated Gwadar port from 2007 to 2013?




It was Singapore which didn't go anywhere... 

*Build–operate–transfer*
*Build–operate–transfer* (*BOT*) or *build–own–operate–transfer* (*BOOT*) is a form of project financing, wherein a private entity receives a concession from the private or public sector to finance, design, construct, own, and operate a facility stated in the concession contract. This enables the project proponent to recover its investment, operating and maintenance expenses in the project.

Due to the long-term nature of the arrangement, the fees are usually raised during the concession period. The rate of increase is often tied to a combination of internal and external variables, allowing the proponent to reach a satisfactory internal rate of return for its investment.

Examples of countries using BOT are Pakistan,[1]Thailand, Turkey, Taiwan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia,[2]Israel, India, Iran, Croatia, Japan, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Egypt, Myanmar and a few US states (California, Florida, Indiana, Texas, and Virginia). However, in some countries, such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Nepal,[3] the term used is build–own–operate–transfer (BOOT). The first BOT was for the China Hotel, built in 1979 by the Hong Kong listed conglomerate Hopewell Holdings Ltd (controlled by Sir Gordon Wu).

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## monitor

Janbaz Rao said:


> *China will receive 91pc revenues from Gwadar port for 40 years*
> By News Desk -
> November 25, 2017
> 0
> 57
> Share on Facebook
> 
> Tweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ISLAMABAD: *China will receive 91 percent of the revenues set to be received from Gwadar Port and 9pc will go to Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) for a period of 40 years, the Senate was informed on Friday.
> 
> The details were shared by Federal Minister for Ports and Shipping Mir Hasil Bizenjo with senators after they showed their worries over concealment over China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) long-term agreement, reported _Dawn._
> 
> Bizenjo said the agreement was reached on build-operate and transfer model negotiated for a period of 40 years. PML-N’s Senator Kalsoom Parveen of PML-N said agreement had not been inked on basis of parity as had been done with India, she said.
> 
> Parveen asked Chairman Senate Raza Rabbani to call for a meeting in which all related departments which signed the agreement should be present. On this request, Rabbani highlighted about the presence of two committees in relation to CPEC, a parliamentary panel and senate committee.
> 
> Rabbani asked Parveen to take up this issue with Senate committee on CPEC. Pakhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PkMAP) Senator Sardar Azam Musakhel decried that no chairman of the two committees was from Balochistan and accused that China had been provided a concession.
> 
> And Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Senator Mohsin Aziz, said the involvement of business community was a must in inking of such business dealings, a task which be believed shouldn’t be left to bureaucrats.
> 
> PML-N Senator Javed Abbasi said CPEC would offer immense benefits to Pakistan and defended the agreement. He said power projects under CPEC would resolve Pakistan’s energy crisis and several are being established in Sind and Balochistan.
> 
> 
> TAGS
> CPEC
> Gwadar Port
> power projects
> Senate Panel
> SHARE
> Facebook
> 
> Twitter





Ryuzaki said:


> Pretty sweet deal for Chinese,no wonder they are so keen on it
> Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?




This is BOT aggrement so not bad actually if someone only read the title. But why they will take 91 % revenue for 40 years. It tells either Pakistan failed to negotiate good term with Chinese or expected revenue will be to small to make operating profit every year. 

Secondly @ryzuki pointed out are those 9% revenue sufficient for security expense if we only consider port operation other then different investment expected investment.


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## DarX

Ryuzaki said:


> Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
> For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?
> 
> Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?



Perhaps its not $90 billion. Perhaps it's only $90 million. That's still $90 million more than what Gwadar is generating right now, and the thousands of jobs the people of Balochistan will get is the main benefit. Jobs for the Baloch will bring prosperity to the region and wipe out the last reason for the dwindling insurgency. Win-win for Pakistan at every corner of this project.

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## Samlee

punit said:


> Is this real



This Was Actually The Original Concession Agreement Made With PSA Consortium In 1996.Personally Even I Do Not Agree With It.But Chinese Got This When The Concession Was Transferred To Them.This Concession Was Not China Specific.

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## DarX

monitor said:


> This is BOT aggrement so not bad actually if someone only read the title. But why they will take 91 % revenue for 40 years. It tells either Pakistan failed to negotiate good term with Chinese or expected revenue will be to small to make operating profit every year.
> 
> Secondly @ryzuki pointed out are those 9% revenue sufficient for security expense if we only consider port operation other then different investment expected investment.



These projects take years to take off and so the port will probably generate negligible revenue in the first couple of decades. That is why the lease is for 40 years. The security costs are not an issue as our objective is not just the port revenue but it is to start economic activities in the region and we already have to pay for the security even without the CPEC. So it is in our benefit from all angles.


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## CriticalThought

For all Indian members. Forget 91% vs 9%. Think what exactly will happen if you or your Uncle Sam try to hit Gawadar or try to blockade it. You will be hitting China directly. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Chiba starts building islands in the Arabian Sea. @wanglaokan

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## Mukunda Murthi Rao

CriticalThought said:


> For all Indian members. Forget 91% vs 9%. Think what exactly will happen if you or your Uncle Sam try to hit Gawadar or try to blockade it. You will be hitting China directly. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Chiba starts building islands in the Arabian Sea. @wanglaokan


So will you sell your country just to spite india and china?

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## litman

40 yrs is a lot of time. the map of the world has been changing through out the history. our map changed in 71. the world is on the brink of destruction and the big powers are ready to do something foolish at any moment.

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## CriticalThought

Mukunda Murthi Rao said:


> So will you sell your country just to spite india and china?



Did China sell Hong Kong? Or did it make a strategic decision for long term gain? These types of decisions require vision and forward thinking.

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## Clutch

Mukunda Murthi Rao said:


> So will you sell your country just to spite india and china?



Spite China?... no.

Indians are Pakistan's mortal enemy... they are full of hate.... they will exterminate us and push us into the sea if we dont stand up to their terror and warmongering.

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## Samlee

Ryuzaki said:


> Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
> For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?
> 
> Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?




Here Are A Few Points
1.Even If We Consider The Time Sensitive Goods As 1% Of China's Total Exports This Means $30 Billion Dollars That Can Go Through CPEC.FYI China Has Already Built A Link From East Coast Linyi(Eastern China) To Gwadar


http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0510/c98649-9055546.html


2.Running A Port Is Not Like Building A house or running a shop, it needs a huge investment along with a number Of Liabilities. Hence, If From The Net Income Pakistan Gets Around 10% Without Having Spent A Single Penny, It’s Great Indeed. A Strategic Resource Would Be Developed With Someone Else’s Money But Will Ultimately Remain Pakistan’s Hands

3.Has It Occured To You That With The Passage Of Time Production Costs Are Rising In Eastern Coastal China.This Is Why Factories Are Relocating To Western Regions.

http://www.ibtimes.com/china-promot...expensive-coastal-regions-move-inland-2370602

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/...ush-for-chinese-factories-to-move-inland.html


Now The Problem With These Regions Were That They Did Not Have A Cost Effective Access To Sea.This Is Where Gwadar Port Comes Into Play.So Now You Can See CPEC As Part Of A Bigger Game plan.A Part of CPEC Is Being Built In China and A Part In Pakistan

4.Pakistan May Not Be Earning Much From Gwadar Port But They Will Be Earning From Toll Taxes and Transit Fees From Motorways and Railways.

5.As A Result Of Chinese Policy Of Relocating Industries To Less Developed Interior and Western Regions,Both Xinjiang and Tibet Have Been Experiencing Double Digit Growth.This When There Only Export Markets Right Now Are Russia and Central Asia.Imagine The Growth When They Get Cheap Access To Sea.They Grow and We Grow With Them

6.Karakoram Highway Is Being Transformed Into An All Weather Road.90% Of The Work Has Already Been Done On This

7.Be Specific What Part Of CPEC Is Ahsan Iqbal Hiding?????


I Can Elaborate More Points If You Want

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## Kathin_Singh

Clutch said:


> It was Singapore which didn't go anywhere...
> 
> *Build–operate–transfer*
> *Build–operate–transfer* (*BOT*) or *build–own–operate–transfer* (*BOOT*) is a form of project financing, wherein a private entity receives a concession from the private or public sector to finance, design, construct, own, and operate a facility stated in the concession contract. This enables the project proponent to recover its investment, operating and maintenance expenses in the project.
> 
> Due to the long-term nature of the arrangement, the fees are usually raised during the concession period. The rate of increase is often tied to a combination of internal and external variables, allowing the proponent to reach a satisfactory internal rate of return for its investment.
> 
> Examples of countries using BOT are Pakistan,[1]Thailand, Turkey, Taiwan, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia,[2]Israel, India, Iran, Croatia, Japan, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Philippines, Egypt, Myanmar and a few US states (California, Florida, Indiana, Texas, and Virginia). However, in some countries, such as Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Nepal,[3] the term used is build–own–operate–transfer (BOOT). The first BOT was for the China Hotel, built in 1979 by the Hong Kong listed conglomerate Hopewell Holdings Ltd (controlled by Sir Gordon Wu).



Here Builder is not operator!

First it was Singapore company and Now a Chinese company.

It is a management contract not BOT and whoever has negotiated that contract is a fool or corrupt on Pakistani side.


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## Samlee

Kathin_Singh said:


> Here Builder is not operator!
> 
> First it was Singapore company and Now a Chinese company.
> 
> It is a management contract not BOT and whoever has negotiated that contract is a fool or corrupt on Pakistani side.



It Was Negotiated During General Musharraf Rule.Babar Ghauri Was Ports and Shipping Minister Hiding In USA Now


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## Kaniska

Not bad deal in long run...It is quite expected that China is paying for the entire cost of Gwadar, so they will have to make some margin for their money..And again, after 40 year, Pakistan will get another developed port like Dubai without spending a penny to it...So it is a win win for both countries...

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## Kathin_Singh

Clutch said:


> Spite China?... no.
> 
> Indians are Pakistan's mortal enemy... they are full of hate.... they will exterminate us and push us into the sea if we dont stand up to their terror and warmongering.



That is what taught to you. Truth is that We Indians are peace loving ,minding our bussiness type and jolly fellow. We have not invaded neighbours territory in past 5000 years .


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## Samlee

Kaniska said:


> Not bad deal in long run...It is quite expected that China is not paying for the entire cost of Gwadar, so they will have to make some margin for their money..And again, after 40 year, Pakistan will get another developed port like Dubai without spending a penny to it...So it is a win win for both countries...



That Is My Point No. 2 On Post #26



Kathin_Singh said:


> That is what taught to you. Truth is that We Indians are peace loving ,minding our bussiness type and jolly fellow. We have not invaded neighbours territory in past 5000 years .



Really

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_invasion_of_Srivijaya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chola_rule_in_Sri_Lanka

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## Gurjot.S

Its none of india's business to think about 91% or 9%

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## Clutch

Kathin_Singh said:


> Here Builder is not operator!
> 
> First it was Singapore company and Now a Chinese company.
> 
> It is a management contract not BOT and whoever has negotiated that contract is a fool or corrupt on Pakistani side.



The Chinese are building it, they are also operating it along with a huge economic free zone official name of Gwadar Free Zone is Linyi Trade City. They are also building an airport , power plant, desalination plant, highway, railway, and a six lane Eastbay Expressway.

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## The BrOkEn HeArT

Clearly, this is not business. This is one sided occupancy.


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## Sugarcane

Janbaz Rao said:


> Bizenjo said the agreement was reached on build-operate and transfer model negotiated for a period of 40 years. PML-N’s Senator Kalsoom Parveen of PML-N said agreement had not been inked on basis of parity as had been done with India,



Pakistan's economic and security situation is/was not like India, so we are not going to get deals like India.

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## Clutch

The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> Clearly, this is not business. This is one sided occupancy.



Its BOT: Build Operate Transfer

*OK... OK... I'm sorry... you are right... *it's occupancy... that means pakistan is now occupied... it's finished it's broken *it's game over pakistan *... yeah!... every Indians dream come has come true.... Failed state... yipee!!! 
... now that pakistan is finished ... can you please let CPEC and Gwadar do its thing... so the whole occupancy and extermination of pakistan can continue? ...

*However*, every Indian is obsessed with CPEC and stopping it (as this and the rest of the Internet indicates)... therefore... does CPEC actually = *game over pakistan*??? ... hmmm..." I sense moo par ram ram baghaal may chooree"

Get what I'm trying to say... ??

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China trades 1 Trillion Dollar in 1 year
> 9% of 1 Trillion = 90 Billion Dollars for Pakistan
> 
> Seems reasonable


And, China has now more motivation to bypass Malacca straight as much as possible!!!! Bad news for the India!!!!!!

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## Samlee

LoveIcon said:


> Pakistan's economic and security situation is/was not like India, so we are not going to get deals like India.



Fair Comment


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## Clutch

Kathin_Singh said:


> That is what taught to you. Truth is that We Indians are peace loving ,minding our bussiness type and jolly fellow. We have not invaded neighbours territory in past 5000 years .



https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/raw-...n-special-cell-to-sabotage-cpec-cjcsc.528487/


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## AZ1

As much as we show indian proof about cpec is a great deal for pakistan they will not agree because its in their nature to deny those thing which is in favor of pakistan. Indian you got your biggest chabahar port  why you worry for cpec which is small thing and pakistan so much.

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## volatile

Ryuzaki said:


> Pretty sweet deal for Chinese,no wonder they are so keen on it
> Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?


Its BOT 

An agreement between a private company and a governmental body. The agreement commits the private company to build and operate a facility - such as a power plant - for a period of time then transfer ownership to the government. In some cases, an actual transfer does not take place; rather the government will act as primary customer.

Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/build-operate-transfer-contract.html

Honestly number of Jahil people at PDF makes new record high there are several projects already in working i can name few 

Lahore Ring Road Southern loop BOT FWO/NLC (Holly Cow) 

http://nha.gov.pk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Bot-Punjab-Final.pdf

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## HariPrasad

Gadar is really a bad deal for Pakistan .


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## AZ1

HariPrasad said:


> Gadar is really a bad deal for Pakistan .


 correct the name this is not your bollywood .

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## Samlee

HariPrasad said:


> Gadar is really a bad deal for Pakistan .



It's Gwadar And It Is Not Your Job To Decide What Is Good Or Bad For Us.It Is Upto Us To Decide.You Should Right Now Ask Modi To Make LEMOA Public.On What Terms Has He Sold India.

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## Tim Archer

So, Pakistanis feel all being short changed when they get 80% of water from Indus but have ready justifications when chinese give them just 10% of income from property which is on their own land !

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## AZ1

Tim Archer said:


> So, Pakistanis feel all being short changed when they get 80% of water from Indus but have ready justifications when chinese give them just 10% of income from property which is on their own land !


 10 percent is enough to make whole india sleepless so yes i guess

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

HariPrasad said:


> Gadar is really a bad deal for Pakistan .





indians said EXACTLY the same about Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state with Chinese assistance......



Janbaz Rao said:


> *China will receive 91pc revenues from Gwadar port for 40 years*
> By News Desk -
> November 25, 2017
> 0
> 57
> Share on Facebook
> 
> Tweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ISLAMABAD: *China will receive 91 percent of the revenues set to be received from Gwadar Port and 9pc will go to Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) for a period of 40 years, the Senate was informed on Friday.
> 
> The details were shared by Federal Minister for Ports and Shipping Mir Hasil Bizenjo with senators after they showed their worries over concealment over China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) long-term agreement, reported _Dawn._
> 
> Bizenjo said the agreement was reached on build-operate and transfer model negotiated for a period of 40 years. PML-N’s Senator Kalsoom Parveen of PML-N said agreement had not been inked on basis of parity as had been done with India, she said.
> 
> Parveen asked Chairman Senate Raza Rabbani to call for a meeting in which all related departments which signed the agreement should be present. On this request, Rabbani highlighted about the presence of two committees in relation to CPEC, a parliamentary panel and senate committee.
> 
> Rabbani asked Parveen to take up this issue with Senate committee on CPEC. Pakhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PkMAP) Senator Sardar Azam Musakhel decried that no chairman of the two committees was from Balochistan and accused that China had been provided a concession.
> 
> And Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Senator Mohsin Aziz, said the involvement of business community was a must in inking of such business dealings, a task which be believed shouldn’t be left to bureaucrats.
> 
> PML-N Senator Javed Abbasi said CPEC would offer immense benefits to Pakistan and defended the agreement. He said power projects under CPEC would resolve Pakistan’s energy crisis and several are being established in Sind and Balochistan.
> 
> 
> TAGS
> CPEC
> Gwadar Port
> power projects
> Senate Panel
> SHARE
> Facebook
> 
> Twitter






They forgot to add that Pakistan gets a FREE world class infrastructure & economic base which will in effect make Pakistan a developed country and give our population a high living standard. Also, most of that 91% profit that China will make will be reinvested in Pakistan's economy and infrastructure without the fear of those profits being usurped by corrupt Pakistani politicians. Those skewed figures of 9% & 91% are to ensure that all the profits and gains of CPEC goes to the betterment of Pakistan and not to corrupt officials.

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## punit

CriticalThought said:


> For all Indian members. Forget 91% vs 9%. Think what exactly will happen if you or your Uncle Sam try to hit Gawadar or try to blockade it. You will be hitting China directly. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Chiba starts building islands in the Arabian Sea. @wanglaokan


Lol.. it's so tragic that it seems to be funny.

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## HariPrasad

F


punit said:


> Lol.. it's so tragic that it seems to be funny.


Fine, if you think it is good for you than good luck. I listen a lots of discussion of cpec in Pakistan TV. They literally cry. Anyway good luck for cpec .


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## CriticalThought

punit said:


> Lol.. it's so tragic that it seems to be funny.



The word you are looking for is tragicomedy.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tragicomedy

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## punit

Clutch said:


> Spite China?... no.
> 
> Indians are Pakistan's mortal enemy... they are full of hate.... they will exterminate us and push us into the sea if we dont stand up to their terror and warmongering.


Good. Now ask china to make pakistan a per of


HariPrasad said:


> F
> 
> Fine, if you think it is good for you than good luck. I listen a lots of discussion of cpec in Pakistan TV. They literally cry. Anyway good luck for cpec .


????


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## HariPrasad

L


punit said:


> Good. Now ask china to make pakistan a per of
> 
> ????


OK at the response to my previous post.


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## Clutch

punit said:


> Good. Now ask china to make pakistan a per of
> 
> ????


Per of???


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## My-Analogous

Ryuzaki said:


> Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
> For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?
> 
> Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?


So do you think sea route between Karachi and Shenzen 9334.080km (5040nmi) is shorter and faster then land route of Shenzen to Kashgar (total 5641km by road) and then Kashgar to Karachi (2211km) in total 7852KM? We are talking about 1482km shorter distance for the region.


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## punit

Clutch said:


> Per of???


Mistake. Deleted.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

HariPrasad said:


> F
> 
> Fine, if you think it is good for you than good luck. I listen a lots of discussion of cpec in Pakistan TV. They literally cry. Anyway good luck for cpec .





Why should we take seriously what an indian says or thinks about CPEC or Pakistan?......... it's like asking a Nazi their opinions of Jews & israel.

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## Hell hound

how many years out of these 40 have already passed ?

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## HariPrasad

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Why should we take seriously what an indian says or thinks about CPEC or Pakistan?......... it's like asking a Nazi their opinions of Jews & israel.




U didn't read my post carefully . It is said back all Pakistanis now. I can post video links if you want .


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

HariPrasad said:


> U didn't read my post carefully . It is said back all Pakistanis now. I can post video links if you want .




Why don't you also post links of indians claiming pre-May 1998 that it is impossible for Pakistan to EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance.............


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## Qutb-ud-din Aybak

Ryuzaki said:


> Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
> For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?
> 
> Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?


most part of Chinese trade is oil import from gulf .
and talking about swiss canal, nearest port for chia to swiss canal passes through gawadar.


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## atya

HariPrasad said:


> You can't build a road without Chinese assistance in 2017 and you believe that you exploded bomb without Chinese help in 1998. By the way I heard on Pakistan TV discussion that one small tunnel work is under construction for decades. Is it complete NOW?


Seems like you are so obsessed with Pakistan that you watch more Pakistani tv than Pakistanis. You might as well come over

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## HariPrasad

atya said:


> Seems like you are so obsessed with Pakistan that you watch more Pakistani tv than Pakistanis. You might as well come over


Ya I like to watch whining .


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## Arsalan 345

9%. Are you kidding me? Is this Pakistan share on gwadar port. Game changer or game finisher? Is this a deal? Lol

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## BATMAN

Previously Musharraf govt. made contract with Singapore port authority, which was not liked by PTI so it was canceled by Asif Ali Zardari and Gawadar project was abandoned.
Now same PTI morons are objecting again. These people should be fined for every damage Pakistan have and will face due to its violent protests during the progressive rule of Pervez Musharraf.

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## Clutch

Arsalan 345 said:


> 9%. Are you kidding me? Is this Pakistan share on gwadar port. Game changer or game finisher? Is this a deal? Lol



OK... let's say no CPEC... would pakistan have built gwadar with the largest airport in the country, a high capacity port, a desalination plant, a power plant, a newly planned economic zones, hospitals, and other infrastructure within a 5 year span? - I would say improbable since nothing was done in over 60 years.

Now senario 2: country X comes along says we will do all of the above... with our money and build it on the same planning as one of the world's most successful economic zones and after 40 years hand you the keys to the "new Dubai" ... and in the interim give you 9% of the profits.... Would you say yes.?

It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.. Even our dumb dumb politicians saw the benefits.

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## Thanatos

Excellent deal, Both countries will benefit massively , especially Pakistan. Good times ahead.

Indian members response on this post is ridiculous. I have always noticed a sense of insecurity in them perhaps lack of confidence. On one hand they try to prove Pakistan as a war torn terrorist state and on the other hand they try to show they are really concerned about Pakistan. They just cant see/ accept any thing good happening in Pakistan, esp in relation to China. I think it will not only boost economic activity in one of the poorest province of Pakistan but also bring China Pakistan closer than ever before.



DarX said:


> Perhaps its not $90 billion. Perhaps it's only $90 million. That's still $90 million more than what Gwadar is generating right now, and the thousands of jobs the people of Balochistan will get is the main benefit. Jobs for the Baloch will bring prosperity to the region and wipe out the last reason for the dwindling insurgency. Win-win for Pakistan at every corner of this project.


Completely agree.



HariPrasad said:


> You can't build a road without Chinese assistance in 2017 and you believe that you exploded bomb without Chinese help in 1998. By the way I heard on Pakistan TV discussion that one small tunnel work is under construction for decades. Is it complete NOW?



Off topic!!

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## Chhatrapati

Nice thread.

Why is this a big deal. BOT usually involves such deals. In India NHAI, gave roads on BOT basis sometimes for 30 years, and high toll rates like Rs 100-200. This is after we pay, tens of thousands in road taxes.

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## Thanatos

Kathin_Singh said:


> Here Builder is not operator!
> 
> First it was Singapore company and Now a Chinese company.
> 
> It is a management contract not BOT and whoever has negotiated that contract is a fool or corrupt on Pakistani side.



What do you care?



SOUTHie said:


> Nice thread.
> 
> Why is this a big deal. BOT usually involves such deals. In India NHAI, gave roads on BOT basis sometimes for 30 years, and high toll rates like Rs 100-200.


Finally some sane voice.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Clutch said:


> OK... let's say no CPEC... would pakistan have built gwadar with the largest airport in the country, a high capacity port, a desalination plant, a power plant, a newly planned economic zones, hospitals, and other infrastructure within a 5 year span? - I would say improbable since nothing was done in over 60 years.
> 
> Now senario 2: country X comes along says we will do all of the above... with our money and build it on the same planning as one of the world's most successful economic zones and after 40 years hand you the keys to the "new Dubai" ... and in the interim give you 9% of the profits.... Would you say yes.?
> 
> It doesn't take a genius to figure that one out.. Even our dumb dumb politicians saw the benefits.





The 91% profit China makes will be re-invested in the Pakistani economy & CPEC. The 91% share China has is to ensure the profit of CPEC is not squandered by corrupt Pakistani politicians and officials.


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## Chhatrapati

Thanatos said:


> Finally some sane voice.


It's okay to contradict. If someone do not agree with a specific idea, it shouldn't be ridiculed.
Now that, my comment carries no weight as I'm not an economist. Only my pov.


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## Clutch

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> The 91% profit China makes will be re-invested in the Pakistani economy & CPEC. The 91% share China has is to ensure the profit of CPEC is not squandered by corrupt Pakistani politicians and officials.


That is true.. Plus there are other residual positive impacts as economies grow around the chinese gwadar activities. ... it isn't like the Chinese will be operating in Gwadar in a vacuum... other industries will grow around it which will have a compounding effect.

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## Sanchez

Who can prove that China gets 91% profits from Gwadar port？


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## Reichsmarschall

Kathin_Singh said:


> That is what taught to you. Truth is that We Indians are peace loving ,minding our bussiness type and jolly fellow. We have not invaded neighbours territory in past 5000 years .


and Hitler was human right activist


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## xyxmt

Kathin_Singh said:


> Out of so called 'investment' how much is loan and at what interest rate?
> 
> Who is laughing now...Chinese ofcourse!



question is who is crying now for last three years

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## Chhatrapati

Sanchez said:


> Who can prove that China gets 91% profits from Gwadar port？


Read the OP.


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## Sharky

Their country. Their logic. Why do we care if they wanna sell out. We have enough problems back in India that happen due to bad planning as well. We need to tackle that rather.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Kathin_Singh said:


> Out of so called 'investment' how much is loan and at what interest rate?
> 
> Who is laughing now...Chinese ofcourse!






The people that will be laughing the most is the average/poor Pakistani because a large part of that 91% share will be re-invested in CPEC/ the Pakistani economy without it being usurped by corrupt Pakistani officials/Politicians .This will ultimately give Pakistan a world-class infrastructure and high standard of living for ALL Pakistani citizens .........much to the dismay of our enemies 



Sharky said:


> Their country. Their logic. Why do we care if they wanna sell out. We have enough problems back in India that happen due to bad planning as well. We need to tackle that rather.





Pakistan must be doing something VERY right when the race which calls for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation claims we are "Selling Out"

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## Cybernetics

From the economic perspective its quite narrow minded to just focus on the port revenues. Vast majority of future revenues will come from supporting activities around Gwadar port and the city. Government revenue will come from: selling/leasing land, fees, JV with foreign firms, tax revenue from workers in industrial zones and supporting roles (ie. truck drivers, tradesmen), tax revenue from companies that are involved in the construction and support (food, services, finance, retail) of Gwadar city. The opportunities for revenue is endless when there is an economy.

The goal is to transform Gwadar into a regional trading hub and industrial zone much like Dubai, Shenzhen, and Shanghai.

"For instance, in addition to the preferential policies of reducing or eliminating Customs duties and income tax common to the economic and technological development zones, the state also permits the zone to allow foreign business people to open financial institutions and run tertiary industries." - Shanghai Pudong New Zone






Gwadar port is important not for its port revenues but for the opportunities it opens up for Pakistan. Be mindful of the bigger picture. The port will attract investment enabling an export driven economy for value added activities and eventually helping Pakistan to be industrially competitive and vertically integrate its supply chain. Workers will get paid and their salaries taxed, workers will buy homes, consume goods and services, new business will start to support the city and access international markets. The port will have a great multiplier effect on the economy.

In the future the easiest way to make money in Gwadar will be in real estate/construction not the port.

Although the port is strategically important, it will play a small role in revenues compared to the Gwadar city project. Despite being the largest port in the world Port of Ningbo-Zhoushan only makes $420 million USD (profit) a year while moving 889 million tonnes of cargo, which is $0.5 USD per ton. At $1.6 billion USD Gwadar will need to ship more than 3.2 billion tons of cargo to break even. Over 40 years Gwadar port will need to ship more than an average of 80 million tonnes a year.

The profit/ton probably already contains the financing costs of the port. If we assume its included then if Gwadar matches Karachi's yearly tonnage of 65 million tons then the profit would be $32.5 million a year. As port technology gets more advanced with greater automation, the cost per ton will decrease further. There are a few berths in Port of Qingdao that's automated (a few people in the control room), currently capable of 1.5 million TEU and 5.2 million TEU in a few years, currently Port of Karachi handles 1.5 million TEU. The more efficient the port the more goods and industry it will attract, seeking high prices from ports will destroy industry.

https://www.porttechnology.org/news/asia_enters_fully_automated_terminal_era
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Karachi

Ports don't make as much money as people think.

https://finance.google.ca/finance?q=SHA:601018
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_by_cargo_tonnage

In an efficient industrial system ports are more of a support utility for exports. An efficient port will make Pakistan's exports and Gwadar as a hub a lot more competitive in the global marketplace.

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## 4GTejasBVR

Clutch said:


> Gwadar is being developed 100% on Chinese own money... the Chinese were given 40 year lease to Build Own Transfer.
> 
> *Pakistan does not have any loans or debts for Gwadar.
> 
> BOT *is the best opportunity start a city from scratch based on the model of Shanghai Free Trade Zone (SFTZ) in Gwadar to interlink the entire region, including Pakistan, Iran, China and Central Asian States.
> 
> Win-win
> 
> However ... I understand your issue... here is your cure:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here educate yourself: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build–operate–transfer


Pakistan does not have a loan for CPEC?

Who don't be laughing at this? Everything is loan


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## DarX

4GTejasBVR said:


> Pakistan does not have a loan for CPEC?
> 
> Who don't be laughing at this? Everything is loan



The financing is on a BOT basis which is different from a sovereign loan. The repayment in BOT financing is on the basis of the revenue from the facility and the repayment of loans is from Govt treasury. So this is not a loan against the govt of Pakistan.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

4GTejasBVR said:


> Pakistan does not have a loan for CPEC?
> 
> Who don't be laughing at this? Everything is loan





A bit like you guys said that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance 

You also laughed at that idea...........but it became a reality. Just as then so is now

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## 4GTejasBVR

DarX said:


> The financing is on a BOT basis which is different from a sovereign loan. The repayment in BOT financing is on the basis of the revenue from the facility and the repayment of loans is from Govt treasury. So this is not a loan against the govt of Pakistan.


Hold on buddy still lots of ifs and buts of deal yet to be released. So u really think this deal is good for Pakistan? And all money spent on gwadar is chinese money. And what ever they earn in 40 years is their return?

They already sanctioned 60 billion dollars worth of loans. Many are transfer of plants from China. And what they use to build is upto the Chinese. 

What happened to you guys really



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> A bit like you guys said that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance
> 
> You also laughed at that idea...........but it became a reality. Just as then so is now


Both are different altogether. Yiu are comparing nuclear weapons with CPEC!



PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> A bit like you guys said that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance
> 
> You also laughed at that idea...........but it became a reality. Just as then so is now


And i see many Pakistanis are now chest thumping about chinese military powers against India's. So u basically agreed to defeat? Think about next generation of Pakistanis growing up under Chinese supremacy. First you lost east Pakistan. Now that new country has more or less equal economy and thriving.

And i for the next 40 years after gwadar starts, you will have to obey to all flimsy and fancies of chinese. I remember pigs character in Angry bird movie. U must check it out on youtube. Abd compare with what China does with all

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

4GTejasBVR said:


> Hold on buddy still lots of ifs and buts of deal yet to be released. So u really think this deal is good for Pakistan? And all money spent on gwadar is chinese money. And what ever they earn in 40 years is their return?
> 
> They already sanctioned 60 billion dollars worth of loans. Many are transfer of plants from China. And what they use to build is upto the Chinese.
> 
> What happened to you guys really
> 
> 
> Both are different altogether. Yiu are comparing nuclear weapons with CPEC!
> 
> 
> And i see many Pakistanis are now chest thumping about chinese military powers against India's. So u basically agreed to defeat? Think about next generation of Pakistanis growing up under Chinese supremacy. First you lost east Pakistan. Now that new country has more or less equal economy and thriving.
> 
> And i for the next 40 years after gwadar starts, you will have to obey to all flimsy and fancies of chinese. I remember pigs character in Angry bird movie. U must check it out on youtube. Abd compare with what China does with all





Defeat??????????????......we've been winners since August the 14th 1947 when a Muslim minority was able to dismember, rip, tear and spread open wide the legs of mother india to create Pakistan from conquered indian territory and there is nothing indian kind can ever do to get that conquered territory back again bangladesh is 6× smaller than Pakistan and the bengalis have 0 in common with us. They are situated within indian territory. Their independence was inevitable.

The doubts you are conjecturing with regards to CPEC is EXACTLY the same doubts and dismissals indians expressed as to why Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. indianisms all failed then. Just as then so is now 

PS You are right, CPEC & becoming a nuclear weapons state are 2 different things. Becoming a nuke power was FAR FAR more difficult than CPEC being successful. With the billions the Chinese superpower is pouring into Pakistan every year, the success of CPEC is all but guaranteed 

You know you must be doing something VERY right when an enemy who yearns for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation is all of sudden concerned with our economic well being and calling us a "colony" of China

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## 武成王

The investment of Gwadar port is 1.6 billion US dollar, roughly 10,000 million RMB, to withdraw the investment in the following 40 years, the average *net profit* per year of Gwadar should be 250 million RMB.

Qingdao (China) port is top 10 port worldwide, 500 million tons of goods are transported via Qingdao port in 2016, its net profit is 2200 million RMB, roughly 4 RMB net profit per ton.

If we take Qingdao port as a reference, this indicate Gwadar need transport 250 / 4 = 60 million tons of goods per year in the 40 years to meet the profit requirement of 250 million RMB per year, this assume Qingdao port and Gwadar has same level of business operation.

The throughput of Karachi port in 2015 is roughly 44 million tons, we can see that it's not easy for Gwadar port to meet the bar of 60 million tons throughput in the near future, it's estimated that Gwadar port has no profit in the first 5 years operation.

The port itself is not a cash cow as somebody think, e.g. the port in Greek had been losing money before China took over it. Gwadar port is primarily a facility for development of Balochistan, without industry support, it's no chance to withdraw the investment, so I estimate that there will be oil refine, mining, probably automobile factory etc open in this region, otherwise it hardly can support high throughput of goods. The port itself may not earn, however the compound effect it bring into this region is significant.

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## protest

HAKIKAT said:


> And, China has now more motivation to bypass Malacca straight as much as possible!!!! Bad news for the India!!!!!!



Sorry, how far is Gwader from India? If India were to block China at malacca straits, it could easily block Gwader too.



nop said:


> The investment of Gwadar port is 1.6 billion US dollar, roughly 10,000 million RMB, to withdraw the investment in the following 40 years, the average *net profit* per year of Gwadar should be 250 million RMB.
> 
> Qingdao (China) port is top 10 port worldwide, 500 million tons of goods are transported via Qingdao port in 2016, its net profit is 2200 million RMB, roughly 4 RMB net profit per ton.
> 
> If we take Qingdao port as a reference, this indicate Gwadar need transport 250 / 4 = 60 million tons of goods per year in the 40 years to meet the profit requirement of 250 million RMB per year, this assume Qingdao port and Gwadar has same level of business operation.
> 
> The throughput of Karachi port in 2015 is roughly 44 million tons, we can see that it's not easy for Gwadar port to meet the bar of 60 million tons throughput in the near future, it's estimated that Gwadar port has no profit in the first 5 years operation.
> 
> The port itself is not a cash cow as somebody think, e.g. the port in Greek had been losing money before China took over it. Gwadar port is primarily a facility for development of Balochistan, without industry support, it's no chance to withdraw the investment, so I estimate that there will be oil refine, mining, probably automobile factory etc open in this region, otherwise it hardly can support high throughput of goods. The port itself may not earn, however the compound effect it bring into this region is significant.



But Pakistanis on the other thread were boasting about transporting 400 million tonnes of goods through Gwader and that entire Chinese trade with middle east and possibly the world shifting to this port. I want to know your understanding of the claim.


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## 武成王

protest said:


> Sorry, how far is Gwader from India? If India were to block China at malacca straits, it could easily block Gwader too.
> 
> 
> 
> But Pakistanis on the other thread were boasting about transporting 400 million tonnes of goods through Gwader and that entire Chinese trade with middle east and possibly the world shifting to this port. I want to know your understanding of the claim.



I have explained very clearly that it's not easy for Gwadar port itself to become profitable,
the primary goal of Gwadar port is for development of Balochistan. If the industry parks can boom as expected, Gwadar has the potential to become a logistic hub for their transportation to Middle East and Africa, India. 40 years is a long time, many things can change. Gwadar can become another Dubai or remain as a small town, it's up to Pakistan to grasp this opportunity, the investment from China is only a catalyst, China can take the risk to walk the first step to do Pakistan a favor, however how far can Gwadar march, it's up to the Pakistan government and its people. 

I'm personally optimistic about the future of Gwadar port, it has a good geographic position, a gateway to Iran, Arab, East Africa and India, the only concern is stability of politics in Pakistan.

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## protest

nop said:


> I have explained very clearly that it's not easy for Gwadar port itself to become profitable,
> the primary goal of Gwadar port is for development of Balochistan. If the industry parks can boom as expected, Gwadar has the potential to become a logistic hub for their transportation to Middle East and Africa, India. 40 years is a long time, many things can change. Gwadar can become another Dubai or remain as a small town, it's up to Pakistan to grasp this opportunity, the investment from China is only a catalyst, China can take the risk to walk the first step to do Pakistan a favor, however how far can Gwadar march, it's up to the Pakistan government and its people.
> 
> I'm personally optimistic about the future of Gwadar port, it has a good geographic position, a gateway to Iran, Arab, East Africa and India, the only concern is stability of politics in Pakistan.



Thank you. I second your opinion. But I have come across Pakistanis in this forum who claim China is going to do all its trade through this port and entire CPEC loan is going to paid off through toll taxes. Thats some wishful thinking.


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

protest said:


> Sorry, how far is Gwader from India? If India were to block China at malacca straits, it could easily block Gwader too.
> 
> 
> 
> But Pakistanis on the other thread were boasting about transporting 400 million tonnes of goods through Gwader and that entire Chinese trade with middle east and possibly the world shifting to this port. I want to know your understanding of the claim.




No worries. india can't because China/Pakistan has the weapons and technology to "unblock" indian intrusions with ease  Our claims that the profit we will make via Gwadar is ridiculous? Funny that, indians claimed EXACTLY the same with regards to Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state......

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## friendly_troll96

*@ Indians*

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## Clutch

4GTejasBVR said:


> Pakistan does not have a loan for CPEC?
> 
> Who don't be laughing at this? Everything is loan




For Gwadar Port.. the thread is about Gwadar Port .. my response was about Gwadar.. Can't you read Gwadar as the thread title. Where did I say CPEC?

@4GTejasBVR

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## 4GTejasBVR

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Defeat??????????????......we've been winners since August the 14th 1947 when a Muslim minority was able to dismember, rip, tear and spread open wide the legs of mother india to create Pakistan from conquered indian territory and there is nothing indian kind can ever do to get that conquered territory back again bangladesh is 6× smaller than Pakistan and the bengalis have 0 in common with us. They are situated within indian territory. Their independence was inevitable.
> 
> The doubts you are conjecturing with regards to CPEC is EXACTLY the same doubts and dismissals indians expressed as to why Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. indianisms all failed then. Just as then so is now
> 
> PS You are right, CPEC & becoming a nuclear weapons state are 2 different things. Becoming a nuke power was FAR FAR more difficult than CPEC being successful. With the billions the Chinese superpower is pouring into Pakistan every year, the success of CPEC is all but guaranteed
> 
> You know you must be doing something VERY right when an enemy who yearns for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation is all of sudden concerned with our economic well being and calling us a "colony" of China



All this self realisation will be out of doubts in few years. 

So called 6 times the size of Pakistan. GDP is just below 6 times the size of Bangladesh. 

So called minority community in India was those who ruled India now left with Pakistan and Bangladesh. 

LOL get some Apple fizz and chilax



Clutch said:


> For Gwadar Port.. the thread is about Gwadar Port .. my response was about Gwadar.. Can't you read Gwadar as the thread title. Where did I say CPEC?
> 
> @4GTejasBVR



 dude whole CPEC is because of Gwadar port sold out to China. From when Gwadar was not part of CPEC


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## DJ_Viper

Janbaz Rao said:


> *China will receive 91pc revenues from Gwadar port for 40 years*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ISLAMABAD: *China will receive 91 percent of the revenues set to be received from Gwadar Port and 9pc will go to Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) for a period of 40 years, the Senate was informed on Friday.



Its interesting to see these threads where Pakistani citizens don't understand their own nation's projects, or bad-publicize them for their personal / political reasons. No matter how much I dislike this project from an American point of view, this is going to transform Pakistan from what it was. In fact, recently looking at various business and market report, until a few months ago till political issues started, Pakistan was growing at a much rapid pace. This is such a lifeline project that would give Pakistan a new and highest growth economic life. 

The revenue's outlined above are for port operations. Not the entire CPEC project that includes transportation tolls, shipping costs, future product assembly within Pakistan to ship stuff out faster, instead of making these in China, and the development of over 12 future larger cities around this route and various business districts. Not sure why these great things would be bad mouthed.

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## 4GTejasBVR

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> No worries. india can't because China/Pakistan has the weapons and technology to "unblock" indian intrusions with ease  Our claims that the profit we will make via Gwadar is ridiculous? Funny that, indians claimed EXACTLY the same with regards to Pakistan becoming a nuclear weapons state......



 how much is ur ridiculous profit? Looks like u have made inception part 2


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## TheBlackCoat

CriticalThought said:


> For all Indian members. Forget 91% vs 9%. Think what exactly will happen if you or your Uncle Sam try to hit Gawadar or try to blockade it. You will be hitting China directly. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future Chiba starts building islands in the Arabian Sea. @wanglaokan



Why would US hit Gwadar? Both China and Pakistan are our allies.



The BrOkEn HeArT said:


> Clearly, this is not business. This is one sided occupancy.



That's how Businesses work. With people like you, no wonder no one can do Business with India.


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## MultaniGuy

DJ_Viper said:


> Its interesting to see these threads where Pakistani citizens don't understand their own nation's projects, or bad-publicize them for their personal / political reasons. No matter how much I dislike this project from an American point of view, this is going to transform Pakistan from what it was. In fact, recently looking at various business and market report, until a few months ago till political issues started, Pakistan was growing at a much rapid pace. This is such a lifeline project that would give Pakistan a new and highest growth economic life.
> 
> The revenue's outlined above are for port operations. Not the entire CPEC project that includes transportation tolls, shipping costs, future product assembly within Pakistan to ship stuff out faster, instead of making these in China, and the development of over 12 future larger cities around this route and various business districts. Not sure why these great things would be bad mouthed.


Why do you dislike the CPEC project, Yankee?

Is it because you cannot tolerate other societies becoming strong?

Yes the CPEC project and Gwadar will transform Pakistan definitely.

It is a game changer. Gwadar port changes everything for China.

Instead of going through Malacca straits, they can go through Gwadar port. A huge win for both countries Pakistan and China.

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## 武成王

DJ_Viper said:


> Its interesting to see these threads where Pakistani citizens don't understand their own nation's projects, or bad-publicize them for their personal / political reasons. No matter how much I dislike this project from an American point of view, this is going to transform Pakistan from what it was. In fact, recently looking at various business and market report, until a few months ago till political issues started, Pakistan was growing at a much rapid pace. This is such a lifeline project that would give Pakistan a new and highest growth economic life.
> 
> The revenue's outlined above are for port operations. Not the entire CPEC project that includes transportation tolls, shipping costs, future product assembly within Pakistan to ship stuff out faster, instead of making these in China, and the development of over 12 future larger cities around this route and various business districts. Not sure why these great things would be bad mouthed.



Some feel it's a *unfair* deal because Pakistan has too few share of this port, they wouldn't think about the logic behind this deal. Just like the ports acquired by China in other countries, e.g. Sri Lanka and Myanmar, the ports themselves are not profitable as expected, however the economic ecosystem built around the port is promising, compare with the output of the future ecosystem, the port is chicken feed.


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## MultaniGuy

nop said:


> Some feel it's a *unfair* deal because Pakistan has too few share of this port, they wouldn't think about the logic behind this deal. Just like the ports acquired by China in other countries, e.g. Sri Lanka and Myanmar, the ports themselves are not profitable as expected, however the economic ecosystem built around the port is promising, compare with the output of the future ecosystem, the port is chicken feed.


With 91% revenues in Gwadar port, means China has big plans for Gwadar port. China will not leave Pakistan alone.

China wants Gwadar port to succeed because China has invested so much in Pakistan and Gwadar Port.


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## 武成王

Iqbal Ali said:


> With 91% revenues in Gwadar port, means China has big plans for Gwadar port. China will not leave Pakistan alone.
> 
> China wants Gwadar port to succeed because China has invested so much in Pakistan and Gwadar Port.



Yes. However we need explain to people the logic behind the deal, otherwise, people will refuse cooperation, or complain, it's well understandable.


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## MultaniGuy

nop said:


> Yes. However we need explain to people the logic behind the deal, otherwise, people will refuse cooperation, or complain, it's well understandable.


Perhaps you could be right. We will see what happens.


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## 武成王

Iqbal Ali said:


> Perhaps you could be right. We will see what happens.



No big concern over this. I'm optimistic about the development of Gwadar, however media often spread exaggerated propaganda, patience is required. In this region, China need an industrial center to help adopt the relocation from China, Pakistan is the most ideal country,
have a population of 200 million, there're lots of young labors, apparently Arab, Iran, Central Asia has no such good condition to adopt industries, India is out automatically, so Pakistan is the best option.

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## Mrc

It's actually a clever interesting and smart way to make Chinese interested in using cpec... more traffic they generate... more money they make ... and same is true for Pakistan... it's a win Win

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## Canuck786

I think a lot of members are confusing two entities with each other; *Gwadar Port (Not Gwadar City) and CPEC*. 

CPEC (China Pakistan Economic Corridor) includes *10+ billion dollars worth of highways and motorways* connecting remote areas of Pakistan including Gwadar City and it's port to the Nation's main road infrastructure. There are also plans for *46 SEZ's in the long term* out of which *9 are being worked for immediate implementation* right now. Different industries will be started in these SEZ's creating new employment for a sizeable population. Even the newly built roads are passing mostly through very under developed and poor areas and by it's addition will bring a huge economic boost to these areas as a result. 

Another part of the CPEC is to *introduce new technologies in the agriculture sector to create farmland out of barren lands*. 

Not only Gwadar is being built as a planned city but pretty soon there will be new cities emerging along the route of CPEC in the future as well. All this will involve construction giving boost to cement and other raw material industries and employ hundreds of thousands of people if not millions.

Keep in mind the East Coast expressway along with the rail tracks, very large Gwadar Airport, 300 bed state of the art hospital, schools, water 5 million gallons desalination plant, waste water treatment plant, access roads to the port and the port infrastructure itself are some of the *monies being spent by the Chinese as grants and not loans*.

Yet another plan is to develop some of the *beaches to promote tourism* on the beautiful shoreline of Balochistan. This again is a sector that has been ignored for too long now and will result in economic gains.

The economic activity will reap it's benefits to the country in the form of income tax, Sales Taxes, Property Taxes, Transfer Taxes, new crops, raw materials converted to finished goods with added value to potential exports etc. This will cause a *significant increase to our Gross National Product*.

So you see the revenue from the port component is insignificant in comparison to all other benefits of the plan and so even if we didn't get the 9% of the profits/port revenues, *we will still be winners as a nation*.

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## DJ_Viper

Iqbal Ali said:


> Why do you dislike the CPEC project, Yankee?
> 
> Is it because you cannot tolerate other societies becoming strong?
> 
> Yes the CPEC project and Gwadar will transform Pakistan definitely.
> 
> It is a game changer. Gwadar port changes everything for China.
> 
> Instead of going through Malacca straits, they can go through Gwadar port. A huge win for both countries Pakistan and China.



If you re-read my posts, you'd see my positive views for Pakistan. I am trying to understand the reason behind your verbal animosity but I think you guys think every American hates Pakistan and there is nothing on Pakistan's end that has ever been wrong.

I dislike the project from a Chinese and US dominance's standpoint. I wish the US was funding this project and many more to grow her influence like the Chinese are doing. I wish Pakistan well and I look forward to seeing such talented nation come up. Its time.

Interesting enough, the other Chinese member nop also responded to my post and it was very balanced. He understood my good views about Pakistan. Sadly, you and some others ignore that.



nop said:


> Some feel it's a *unfair* deal because Pakistan has too few share of this port, they wouldn't think about the logic behind this deal. Just like the ports acquired by China in other countries, e.g. Sri Lanka and Myanmar, the ports themselves are not profitable as expected, however the economic ecosystem built around the port is promising, compare with the output of the future ecosystem, the port is chicken feed.



We know our Pakistani friends for the past 70 years. No matter how right or wrong they may be, at the end, its always the America that they end up hating sadly. Plus, there is plenty of division politically, has always been. They somehow "create" someone every few decades that only criticizes anything good that someone else may be doing. So people who belong to that other side, would act like these projects are the worst thing on the globe and they are out there to destroy Pakistan. If you ask them for an alternative, there is none! Seen and heard a lot about Pakistanis and their divided mindset before. But a very talented nation. In fact, this internal division has wasted decades of this nation and if there was a proper system, they would be where South Korea is today. 

You are right, it is the economy and associated eco-system that matters. Not just a project.

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## Narad Mian

Janbaz Rao said:


> *China will receive 91pc revenues from Gwadar port for 40 years*
> By News Desk -
> November 25, 2017
> 0
> 57
> Share on Facebook
> 
> Tweet on Twitter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *ISLAMABAD: *China will receive 91 percent of the revenues set to be received from Gwadar Port and 9pc will go to Gwadar Port Authority (GPA) for a period of 40 years, the Senate was informed on Friday.
> 
> The details were shared by Federal Minister for Ports and Shipping Mir Hasil Bizenjo with senators after they showed their worries over concealment over China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) long-term agreement, reported _Dawn._
> 
> Bizenjo said the agreement was reached on build-operate and transfer model negotiated for a period of 40 years. PML-N’s Senator Kalsoom Parveen of PML-N said agreement had not been inked on basis of parity as had been done with India, she said.
> 
> Parveen asked Chairman Senate Raza Rabbani to call for a meeting in which all related departments which signed the agreement should be present. On this request, Rabbani highlighted about the presence of two committees in relation to CPEC, a parliamentary panel and senate committee.
> 
> Rabbani asked Parveen to take up this issue with Senate committee on CPEC. Pakhtunkhwa Milli Awami Party (PkMAP) Senator Sardar Azam Musakhel decried that no chairman of the two committees was from Balochistan and accused that China had been provided a concession.
> 
> And Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Senator Mohsin Aziz, said the involvement of business community was a must in inking of such business dealings, a task which be believed shouldn’t be left to bureaucrats.
> 
> PML-N Senator Javed Abbasi said CPEC would offer immense benefits to Pakistan and defended the agreement. He said power projects under CPEC would resolve Pakistan’s energy crisis and several are being established in Sind and Balochistan.
> 
> 
> TAGS
> CPEC
> Gwadar Port
> power projects
> Senate Panel
> SHARE
> Facebook
> 
> Twitter


Very well negotiated deal by chinese. Pakistanis here are being just pakistanis...lol


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## Clutch

DJ_Viper said:


> Its interesting to see these threads where Pakistani citizens don't understand their own nation's projects, or bad-publicize them for their personal / political reasons. No matter how much I dislike this project from an American point of view, this is going to transform Pakistan from what it was. In fact, recently looking at various business and market report, until a few months ago till political issues started, Pakistan was growing at a much rapid pace. This is such a lifeline project that would give Pakistan a new and highest growth economic life.
> 
> The revenue's outlined above are for port operations. Not the entire CPEC project that includes transportation tolls, shipping costs, future product assembly within Pakistan to ship stuff out faster, instead of making these in China, and the development of over 12 future larger cities around this route and various business districts. Not sure why these great things would be bad mouthed.




Overwhelming majority of pakistani are supportive of CPEC and this is also reflected on this forum. 

The people you might be alluding to that are voicing unfair criticism are mostly Indians. Which actually validates CPEC rather than disproves it.

There may be some Pakistanis who might oppose CPEC because they have a different perspective, are either misinformed, or are Indian stooges... this also is natural in an open free society. There are always the bay sayers
.. You will never get 100% .

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## Samlee

4GTejasBVR said:


> Pakistan does not have a loan for CPEC?
> 
> Who don't be laughing at this? Everything is loan



Yes The So Called Loans For Power Projects Are In The Books For The Sponsors Of The Power Projects of The Government Of Pakistan.Secondly The Highway and Motorway Projects For Which Loans Have Been Contracted Are In The Books Of The Concession Holder.

The Remaining Loans Regarding Gwadar Airport Have Been Written Off and The Funds For The Expansion Of Gwadar Port Are In The Books Of COPH.So By And Large There Is No Loan For The Pakistani Taxpayer.



Narad Mian said:


> Very well negotiated deal by chinese. Pakistanis here are being just pakistanis...lol



And Indians Are Just Being Indians Poking Their Nose Where It Doesn't Belong

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

4GTejasBVR said:


> how much is ur ridiculous profit? Looks like u have made inception part 2






Even more pofitable than indian claims pre-May 1998 that Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance..........that was the ridiculous part as are ALL indian assertions with regards to Pakistan......



Narad Mian said:


> Very well negotiated deal by chinese. Pakistanis here are being just pakistanis...lol






But what you forgot to realise is that most of that 91% share will be reinvested into the Pakistan economy and CPEC without the fear of it being usurped by corrupt Pakistani politicians/officials.........

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## dray

Clutch said:


> It's called BOT... pakistan at the end get an infrastructure it didn't have to spend $$$$ for.
> 
> Sweet deal for both. ... I say more.



That port is not under BOT, it us under Chinese loan that Pakistan needs to repay with 9% profit share. 

Be honest with facts.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China trades 1 Trillion Dollar in 1 year
> 9% of 1 Trillion = 90 Billion Dollars for Pakistan
> 
> Seems reasonable



My goodness! Even if we assume 1 trillion dollar trade through that port; 1 trillion dollar worth of goods passing through a port doesn't mean the port earns that 1 trillion dollar, so forget about 90 billion dollar share for Pakistan.

No wonder, China made a fool of you guys.

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## Narad Mian

Rain Man said:


> That port is not under BOT, it us under Chinese loan that Pakistan needs to repay with 9% profit share.
> 
> Be honest with facts.
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness! Even if we assume 1 trillion dollar trade through that port; 1 trillion dollar worth of goods passing through a port doesn't mean the port earns that 1 trillion dollar, so forget about 90 billion dollar share for Pakistan.
> 
> No wonder, China made a fool of you guys.



Haha @AZADPAKISTAN2009 what rotten logic man...

You wont get 9% of the actual value of the goods..what you will get is simply the cost of undocking at your port by volume.. which will be peanuts.. and 91% of that undocking charges will be taken away by china... At the end you are going to get 9% of undocking charges of the goods..

not 9% of value of goods being shipped..that will be totally ridiculous.. China handing down 9% of its economy to its iron blotherl...

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## Indus Pakistan

Ryuzaki said:


> Pakistan only gets 9%.Will the security cost outweigh the 9% revenue?


I thought Pakistan would get 1% and Chinese 99%. This is *nine *times more then I expected. Sweet deal.

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Rain Man said:


> That port is not under BOT, it us under Chinese loan that Pakistan needs to repay with 9% profit share.
> 
> Be honest with facts.
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness! Even if we assume 1 trillion dollar trade through that port; 1 trillion dollar worth of goods passing through a port doesn't mean the port earns that 1 trillion dollar, so forget about 90 billion dollar share for Pakistan.
> 
> No wonder, China made a fool of you guys.






The biggest fools are the nation and race which proclaimed that it was impossible for Pakistan to EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance.............

What you don't realise is that the 91% Chinese share will be re-invested into the Pakistan economy and CPEC without the fear of it being usurped by corrupt Pakistani politicians and officials....

You know Pakistan must be doing something VERY right when members of the race and nation that calls for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation are all of sudden concerned with our economic well-being and calling us "fools"

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## SHAH820

Narad Mian said:


> Haha @AZADPAKISTAN2009 what rotten logic man...
> 
> You wont get 9% of the actual value of the goods..what you will get is simply the cost of undocking at your port by volume.. which will be peanuts.. and 91% of that undocking charges will be taken away by china... At the end you are going to get 9% of undocking charges of the goods..
> 
> not 9% of value of goods being shipped..that will be totally ridiculous.. China handing down 9% of its economy to its iron blotherl...





Rain Man said:


> That port is not under BOT, it us under Chinese loan that Pakistan needs to repay with 9% profit share.
> 
> Be honest with facts.
> 
> 
> 
> My goodness! Even if we assume 1 trillion dollar trade through that port; 1 trillion dollar worth of goods passing through a port doesn't mean the port earns that 1 trillion dollar, so forget about 90 billion dollar share for Pakistan.
> 
> No wonder, China made a fool of you guys.



i like the way you indians thinks
tell me how much china going to earn from a duty free port???????
china already building 29 industrial zones in pakistan , if they are getting 91% from a duty free port after building 29 industrial zone any person in the world would hand 100% of earning of the port to them

now where do you people get info about 45 bil loan on 9% interest rate?from zee news??
only 11 billion out of 45 billion is on loan on 2% interest rate









no one in the world give infrastructure loan at high interest rate now bug off

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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Narad Mian said:


> Haha @AZADPAKISTAN2009 what rotten logic man...
> 
> You wont get 9% of the actual value of the goods..what you will get is simply the cost of undocking at your port by volume.. which will be peanuts.. and 91% of that undocking charges will be taken away by china... At the end you are going to get 9% of undocking charges of the goods..
> 
> not 9% of value of goods being shipped..that will be totally ridiculous.. China handing down 9% of its economy to its iron blotherl...




That 91% will be re-invested in CPEC and the Pakistani economy without it being usurped by corrupt Pakistani politicians and officials 

You know Pakistan must be doing something VERY right when members of the race and nation that calls for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation are all of sudden concerned with our economic well-being 

PS The Iron Brother helped Pakistan become a nuclear weapons state so an enemy state that is more than 7x bigger than us and has abundant access to the world's most advanced weapons systems whilst we are denied this privilege, is now too weak, powerless and pathetic to do anything to Pakistan  That's a first in the ENTIRE history of mankind.......... Now that's what I call Iron borthers

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## Indus Pakistan

My plan for Gwadar https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/gwadar-goes-red-specabad.530463/

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## Canuck786

It is my opinion that the plan if executed in its entirety is a good beneficial plan but Pakistan's current status quo could create unnecessary deviations. The naysayers could perturb the plan which will be harmful for Pakistan and none of us would want that.


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## MultaniGuy

Its not a bad deal since Pakistan will get out of CPEC a lot more.


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## PDFChamp

Easy choice between 100% of nothing or 9% or lots of billions every year! Pak made one right choice.

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## MultaniGuy

PDFChamp said:


> Easy choice between 100% of nothing or 9% or lots of billions every year! Pak made one right choice.


Agreed with you.


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## Beast

Arsalan 345 said:


> 9%. Are you kidding me? Is this Pakistan share on gwadar port. Game changer or game finisher? Is this a deal? Lol


100% infrastructure building cost is on Chinese with no loan debt by Pakistan and yet they still get 9%. I feel it is Chinese get robbed. What do you think?

Pakistan is so lucky to have a great friend of China who still manage to give you 9% for such deal. If it's American and Indian. They will ask Pakistan to finance 50% of the infrastructure and still got the cheek to ask for 100% port fee all on themselves. 

It is becos it's Pakistan. China still give you 9%, if it's other countries. They will not even get a single % since all building fee is fork out by Chinese.

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## DJ_Viper

Clutch said:


> Overwhelming majority of pakistani are supportive of CPEC and this is also reflected on this forum.
> 
> The people you might be alluding to that are voicing unfair criticism are mostly Indians. Which actually validates CPEC rather than disproves it.
> 
> There may be some Pakistanis who might oppose CPEC because they have a different perspective, are either misinformed, or are Indian stooges... this also is natural in an open free society. There are always the bay sayers
> .. You will never get 100% .




I don't think I disagree with your post but the one part that there are "some" who will oppose it. As I understand it and have been discussing with a few people, you have a whole party that majority of the people on here love as it seems. And for their politics, they will discredit your country and block the capital as its done casually before and is still being done now. What you guys as a nation need to understand is that politics are separate from national progress. Whether you like one or hate him or her, the progress on anything within a country like Pakistan, should never be disrupted, or discredited.

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## Mumm-Ra

DJ_Viper said:


> I don't think I disagree with your post but the one part that there are "some" who will oppose it. As I understand it and have been discussing with a few people, you have a whole party that majority of the people on here love as it seems. And for their politics, they will discredit your country and block the capital as its done casually before and is still being done now. What you guys as a nation need to understand is that politics are separate from national progress. Whether you like one or hate him or her, the progress on anything within a country like Pakistan, should never be disrupted, or discredited.



If only more people here subscribe to this line of though..


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## Sanchez

91：9？ I guess that is the ratio of Chinese money to Pakistani money put into the Gwardar projects！In any ways I think 85:15 or 80:20 should be more reasonable，even if Chinese invested all the money instead of loans. 

I felt strange that the contract was “leaked” by a high rank official of Pak government！

CPEC‘s fate is in the hands of Pakistani people. If it fails it’d be Pak‘s fault on account of all kinds of instable elements or interferences. And it’d be economic loss to Chinese but it‘s not that big money to China！


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## Samlee

Samlee said:


> Here Are A Few Points
> 1.Even If We Consider The Time Sensitive Goods As 1% Of China's Total Exports This Means $30 Billion Dollars That Can Go Through CPEC.FYI China Has Already Built A Link From East Coast Linyi(Eastern China) To Gwadar
> 
> 
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0510/c98649-9055546.html
> 
> 
> 2.Running A Port Is Not Like Building A house or running a shop, it needs a huge investment along with a number Of Liabilities. Hence, If From The Net Income Pakistan Gets Around 10% Without Having Spent A Single Penny, It’s Great Indeed. A Strategic Resource Would Be Developed With Someone Else’s Money But Will Ultimately Remain Pakistan’s Hands
> 
> 3.Has It Occured To You That With The Passage Of Time Production Costs Are Rising In Eastern Coastal China.This Is Why Factories Are Relocating To Western Regions.
> 
> http://www.ibtimes.com/china-promot...expensive-coastal-regions-move-inland-2370602
> 
> https://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/28/...ush-for-chinese-factories-to-move-inland.html
> 
> 
> Now The Problem With These Regions Were That They Did Not Have A Cost Effective Access To Sea.This Is Where Gwadar Port Comes Into Play.So Now You Can See CPEC As Part Of A Bigger Game plan.A Part of CPEC Is Being Built In China and A Part In Pakistan
> 
> 4.Pakistan May Not Be Earning Much From Gwadar Port But They Will Be Earning From Toll Taxes and Transit Fees From Motorways and Railways.
> 
> 5.As A Result Of Chinese Policy Of Relocating Industries To Less Developed Interior and Western Regions,Both Xinjiang and Tibet Have Been Experiencing Double Digit Growth.This When There Only Export Markets Right Now Are Russia and Central Asia.Imagine The Growth When They Get Cheap Access To Sea.They Grow and We Grow With Them
> 
> 6.Karakoram Highway Is Being Transformed Into An All Weather Road.90% Of The Work Has Already Been Done On This
> 
> 7.Be Specific What Part Of CPEC Is Ahsan Iqbal Hiding?????
> 
> 
> I Can Elaborate More Points If You Want




*9 Pages And Still No Indian Has Responded.Knowledge Check Kar Bhai Ki*


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## Pakistani E

Hypothetical scenario:

Let's say I have 60+ acres of Land in Canada. It is located in the heart of the Logging industry but it is still under-developed and has poor connectivity and infrastructure.

I have a friend who's company expertise's in the Logging industry who agrees to lease the land from me for certain amount of time to build, manage etc all the sufficient requirements to get the land producing goods. I sign an agreement with him and will get the land back from him after 20 years with everything built up. Within that time-frame however, he agrees to provide me with 9% of all profits from this land.

From my point of view, this is a brilliant scenario to find myself in. A piece of land that is not producing any great revenue, is not connected and build up with infrastructure will get all that and I will not have to pay a penny on it. While at the moment, not only is it not giving me any profit, I am also having to pay maintenance costs/taxes etc nor do I have the capital to invest in this barren land.

In this situation, I will gladly take the 9% revenue. All day and every day. And I consider myself slightly business savvy. Have I been fooled by my friend?

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## Thevarr

PAKISTANFOREVER said:


> Defeat??????????????......we've been winners since August the 14th 1947 when a Muslim minority was able to dismember, rip, tear and spread open wide the legs of mother india to create Pakistan from conquered indian territory and there is nothing indian kind can ever do to get that conquered territory back again bangladesh is 6× smaller than Pakistan and the bengalis have 0 in common with us. They are situated within indian territory. Their independence was inevitable.
> 
> The doubts you are conjecturing with regards to CPEC is EXACTLY the same doubts and dismissals indians expressed as to why Pakistan would NEVER EVER become a nuclear weapons state with or without Chinese assistance. indianisms all failed then. Just as then so is now
> 
> PS You are right, CPEC & becoming a nuclear weapons state are 2 different things. Becoming a nuke power was FAR FAR more difficult than CPEC being successful. With the billions the Chinese superpower is pouring into Pakistan every year, the success of CPEC is all but guaranteed
> 
> You know you must be doing something VERY right when an enemy who yearns for the destruction of the Pakistani race and nation is all of sudden concerned with our economic well being and calling us a "colony" of China



Make sure to come back ....and re read this post in 10 years


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## PAKISTANFOREVER

Thevarr said:


> Make sure to come back ....and re read this post in 10 years





I am glad you said that because indians said EXACTLY the same a day BEFORE Pakistan tested their nukes back in May 1998. The rest is history..........


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## qamar1990

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> China trades 1 Trillion Dollar in 1 year
> 9% of 1 Trillion = 90 Billion Dollars for Pakistan
> 
> Seems reasonable


not all of that trillion is coming through pakistan.. maybe a small fraction.


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## qamar1990

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Hypothetical scenario:
> 
> Let's say I have 60+ acres of Land in Canada. It is located in the heart of the Logging industry but it is still under-developed and has poor connectivity and infrastructure.
> 
> I have a friend who's company expertise's in the Logging industry who agrees to lease the land from me for certain amount of time to build, manage etc all the sufficient requirements to get the land producing goods. I sign an agreement with him and will get the land back from him after 20 years with everything built up. Within that time-frame however, he agrees to provide me with 9% of all profits from this land.
> 
> From my point of view, this is a brilliant scenario to find myself in. A piece of land that is not producing any great revenue, is not connected and build up with infrastructure will get all that and I will not have to pay a penny on it. While at the moment, not only is it not giving me any profit, I am also having to pay maintenance costs/taxes etc nor do I have the capital to invest in this barren land.
> 
> In this situation, I will gladly take the 9% revenue. All day and every day. And I consider myself slightly business savvy. Have I been fooled by my friend?


9 percent is too low
should be more like 15-20 percent.


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## Pakistani E

qamar1990 said:


> 9 percent is too low
> should be more like 15-20 percent.



You are right of course. But we have nothing much to negotiate with. Beggars can't be choosers.

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## qamar1990

Sher Shah Awan said:


> You are right of course. But we have nothing much to negotiate with. Beggars can't be choosers.


lmao true bro shame on us

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## 313ghazi

Well that's a rubbish return. I can't believe the idiots agreed to it. I accept that the Chinese are investing all the money, but we are providing the opportunity, it might not be 50:50 but it shouldn't be 91:09 either. It's not we fought off a load of opposition to win the contract - the only other alternative was Iran-Afghanistan (or Pakistan). 

There were a load of other options, but like always they messed up the deal. It's not like the rest of CPEC is free either, we're going to be paying back loans for the infrastructure! This is what happens when you have the begging bowl out all the time.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Fantastic Deal

China's GDP = 11-12 Trillion USD

Last year, exports and imports via Shanghai Port were valued at 6.9 trillion yuan *(US$1 trillion)*, up just 1.5 per cent from 2015.




Now obviously , the port will take some time to reach that standard but with cooperation and hard work it will get there

Pakistan is quite happy with our Arrangement

9% on the Port
15% on Economic Zones
+Bonus infrastructure upgrades and setup of Economic Centers/Industrial Hub
+ Bonus Chinese companies moving business over to Pakistan

Thank you China






China knows what they are doing

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## nang2

qamar1990 said:


> 9 percent is too low
> should be more like 15-20 percent.


9% is too high. should be 0%. check what BOT investment means.

and it is 9% of revenue, not of profit. Chinese are bearing all the loss. It is like 9% of sales tax.

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## MultaniGuy

I wonder why some members are questioning this.
Its either something or nothing. Its development or nothing.

Something is better than nothing.

Its a good deal under BOT.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

There are two fold benefits

a) The Power projects (Hydral , Coal , Nuclear) will first of all help existing industries in Pakistan.These industries will become more efficient. Solving Water and Power issues is the biggest social problem.


 Reduction in electricity based curfews on industrial production
 Reduction in Reduced electricity supply to towns
 Increase in water conservation
 More efficiency in Textile industry
 The hydral project being the most important part of this segment

b) The secondary benefit is of course , from Gawadar port 9% and then Economic zones 15% (All Bonus)


This of course is a longer term objective 3-5 years type project with year to year improvements in numbers includes the port
Includes greater connectivity between economic zones and port to China


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## Amir Ijaz

At L


Ryuzaki said:


> Do u honestly believe 1 trillion dollars of goods,most of it made in the Far east on Chinese coast,will travel thousands of kilometres(for example,Shenzen to Kashgar is 5,641 km by road),cross into Pakistan through Karakoram pass which is blocked for 6 months in an year,and will further travel 2500 km through Pakistan to reach Gwadar?
> For example take the Suez Canal.More goods pass through it than they will from China to Pakistan in decades,and they certainly do not make 90 billion a year.Will Gwadar handle more trade than Suez Canal?
> 
> Just ask yourself 1 question-Why is Ahsan Iqbal hiding details of CPEC from public when he said he would share it a few days ago?


At least petrol can pass and we get toll on it.


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## Sanchez

I found out it‘s a Pak-Singaporean contract，and China just took over the deal on the same terms. Nothing was changed. No more no less！Ten years already passed.

By definition of BOT Pakistan shouldn’t get a penny out of it！


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## MultaniGuy

Sanchez said:


> I found out it‘s a Pak-Singaporean contract，and China just took over the deal on the same terms. Nothing was changed. No more no less！Ten years already passed.
> 
> By definition of BOT Pakistan shouldn’t get a penny out of it！


I see. Then its a good deal then.


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## Arsalan 345

Beast said:


> 100% infrastructure building cost is on Chinese with no loan debt by Pakistan and yet they still get 9%. I feel it is Chinese get robbed. What do you think?
> 
> Pakistan is so lucky to have a great friend of China who still manage to give you 9% for such deal. If it's American and Indian. They will ask Pakistan to finance 50% of the infrastructure and still got the cheek to ask for 100% port fee all on themselves.
> 
> It is becos it's Pakistan. China still give you 9%, if it's other countries. They will not even get a single % since all building fee is fork out by Chinese.



i was just joking mate. we are iron brothers.i was calculating how much we get from this project.you know pakistani economy is so bad right now.


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## Solomon2

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Hypothetical scenario:
> 
> Let's say I have 60+ acres of Land in Canada. It is located in the heart of the Logging industry but it is still under-developed and has poor connectivity and infrastructure.
> 
> I have a friend who's company expertise's in the Logging industry who agrees to lease the land from me for certain amount of time to build, manage etc all the sufficient requirements to get the land producing goods. I sign an agreement with him and will get the land back from him after 20 years with everything built up. Within that time-frame however, he agrees to provide me with 9% of all profits from this land.
> 
> From my point of view, this is a brilliant scenario to find myself in. A piece of land that is not producing any great revenue, is not connected and build up with infrastructure will get all that and I will not have to pay a penny on it. While at the moment, not only is it not giving me any profit, I am also having to pay maintenance costs/taxes etc nor do I have the capital to invest in this barren land.
> 
> In this situation, I will gladly take the 9% revenue. All day and every day. And I consider myself slightly business savvy. Have I been fooled by my friend?


It would be great if all terms of CPEC were made public. 

You may want to compare CPEC with the Panama Canal project, whereby in exchange for the Canal Panama publicly yielded sovereignty over the Zone to the U.S. "in perpetuity" - which turned out to be 96 years: link

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Pakistan China  I am ok with it


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## Pakistani E

Solomon2 said:


> It would be great if all terms of CPEC were made public.
> 
> You may want to compare CPEC with the Panama Canal project, whereby in exchange for the Canal Panama publicly yielded sovereignty over the Zone to the U.S. "in perpetuity" - which turned out to be 96 years: link



Agreed. Plus, if there was a lot more transparency, there would be less people speculating and we would have full details on the benefits and any negatives of the deals being made.


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## Solomon2

Sher Shah Awan said:


> Agreed. Plus, if there was a lot more transparency, there would be less people speculating and we would have full details on the benefits and any negatives of the deals being made.


@El Sidd and I speculated last month that _speculation_ was the point of keeping things secret: those in on the secrets would know what properties to buy and what installations to build, well before anyone else did. A means to enrich the ruling party and its servitors.

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## El Sidd

Solomon2 said:


> @El Sidd and I speculated last month that _speculation_ was the point of keeping things secret: those in on the secrets would know what properties to buy and what installations to build, well before anyone else did. A means to enrich the ruling party and its servitors.



its business. only a select few are benefiting that is why the outrage.
people are busy celebrating the looting


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## MultaniGuy

Its a good deal. I wonder why some people are against it.


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## Clutch

Solomon2 said:


> It would be great if all terms of CPEC were made public.
> 
> You may want to compare CPEC with the Panama Canal project, whereby in exchange for the Canal Panama publicly yielded sovereignty over the Zone to the U.S. "in perpetuity" - which turned out to be 96 years: link




Why do you care if it was public...? It actually is if you look for it.


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## Kabira

313ghazi said:


> Well that's a rubbish return. I can't believe the idiots agreed to it. I accept that the Chinese are investing all the money, but we are providing the opportunity, it might not be 50:50 but it shouldn't be 91:09 either. It's not we fought off a load of opposition to win the contract - the only other alternative was Iran-Afghanistan (or Pakistan).
> 
> There were a load of other options, but like always they messed up the deal. It's not like the rest of CPEC is free either, we're going to be paying back loans for the infrastructure! This is what happens when you have the begging bowl out all the time.



Its for 40 years and Gwadar port will take long time to turn profit. Chinese are in loss for now and spending billions. If chinese company had same exact deal as Singapore one then 10 years already passed. Gwadar is difinetly must risky project taken by China yet...

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