# The Moral Collapse and gradual break down of American/Western Society



## Desert Fox

*100 Facts About The Moral Collapse Of America That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe*











The collection of facts and statistics that you are about to read is highly controversial. A lot of people are going to be greatly upset by it. Why? Because they don’t like to be confronted with the truth about America. Most people tend to believe that we can “fix this country” by getting the right politicians into power or by implementing certain economic or social reforms. But the reality of the matter is that our problems go far deeper than that. A moral collapse is eating away at the foundations of our society like cancer. If it continues to go unchecked, it will inevitably destroy America. Unfortunately, fixing moral decay is far more difficult than switching out political parties, because it is in the hearts of hundreds of millions of individual Americans. And most people don’t want to hear anything about a “moral collapse”, because most people like to think that the United States is setting a “good example” for the rest of the planet. But as you will see below, that is not the case at all.

And if we are honest with ourselves, we see the evidence of this moral collapse all around us every day. Just consider a few of the news stories that we have seen recently…

What would cause a high school kid to take two kitchen knives and go on a stabbing rampage through his school?

What would cause a topless woman to ransack a McDonald’s in St. Petersburg, Florida?

What would cause two 18-year-old boys to beat a 30-year-old mentally-disabled man to death with a baseball bat just so they could get his XBox?

What would cause a new father to put his 6-week-old daughter in a freezer to keep her from crying?

A lot of people regard those kinds of stories as “isolated incidents”, but as you will see below, they are actually representative of a much larger trend. As a society, we are decaying from the inside out, and we need to start facing the truth if we are ever going to get this turned around. The following are 100 facts about the moral collapse of America that are almost too crazy to believe…

*#1 Approximately one-third of the entire population of the United States (110 million people) currently has a sexually transmitted disease according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.*

*#2* Every single year, there are 20 million new STD cases in America.

*#3* America has the highest STD infection rate in the entire industrialized world.

*#4* Americans in the 15 to 24-year-old age group account for about 50 percent of all new STD cases each year.

*#5* It costs our nation approximately 16 billion dollars a year to treat our sexually transmitted diseases.

*#6 According to one survey, 24 percent of all U.S. teens that have STDs say that they still have unprotected sex.*

*#7* In Chicago, public school kindergarten teachers are now required to set aside 30 minutes a month for sex education.

*#8* The United States has the highest teen pregnancy rate in the entire industrialized world.

*#9 According to a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, approximately two-thirds of all Americans in the 15 to 24-year-old age bracket have engaged in oral sex.*

*#10 At this point, one out of every four teen girls in the U.S. has at least one sexually transmitted disease.*

*#11* According to the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, there are 747,408 registered sex offenders in the United States.

*#12* There are 106,216 registered sex offenders in the state of California alone.

*#13* 18 percent* of all women in the United States say that they have been raped at some point in their lives.*

*#14* More than 50 percent of all rapes take place within one mile of the home.

*#15* Teens that are in the 16 to 19-year-old age bracket are 3 1/2 times more likely than the general population “to be the victims of rape, attempted rape or sexual assault.”

*#16* 60 percent of male sex abuse victims and 80 percent of female sex abuse victims “are abused by someone known to the child or the child’s family.”

*#17* It is estimated that one out of every four girls will be sexually abused before they become adults.

*#18 An astounding 30 percent of all Internet traffic now goes to adult websites.*

*#19* 70 percent of all men in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket visit at least one adult website each month.

*#20* The average high school boy spends two hours on adult websites every single week.

*#21* Law enforcement officials estimate that about 600,000 Americans and about 65,000 Canadians are trading dirty child pictures online.

*#22 It has been estimated that 89 percent of all pornography is produced in the United States.*

*#23 One survey discovered that 25 percent of all employees that have Internet access in America visit sex websites while they are at work.*

*#24* The marriage rate in the United States has fallen to an all-time low. Right now it is sitting at a yearly rate of 6.8 marriages per 1000 people.

*#25 In the United States today, more than half of all couples “move in together” before they get married.*

*#26 Not surprisingly, an all-time low 44.2 percent of all Americans in the 25 to 34-year-old age bracket are married at this point.*

*#27 America has the highest divorce rate in the world by a good margin.*

*#28* America has the highest percentage of one person households on the entire planet.

*#29 100 years ago, 4.52 people were living in the average U.S. household, but now the average U.S. household only consists of 2.59 people.*

*#30 According to the Pew Research Center, only 51 percent of all American adults are currently married. Back in 1960, 72 percent of all adults in the United States were married.*

*#31 For women under the age of 30 in the United States, more than half of all babies are being born out of wedlock.*

*#32 At this point, approximately one out of every three children in the United States lives in a home without a father.*

*#33* In 1970, the average woman had her first child when she was 21.4 years old. Now the average woman has her first child when she is 25.6 years old.

*#34 In a massacre that is almost unspeakable, more than 56 million American babies have been slaughtered in this country since Roe v. Wade was decided in 1973.*

*#35* Approximately 47 percent of the women that get an abortion each year in the United States have also had a previous abortion.

*#36 The number of American babies killed by abortion each year is roughly equal to the number of U.S. military deaths that have occurred in all of the wars that the United States has ever been involved in combined.*

*#37* About one-third* of all American women will have had an abortion by the age of 45.*

*#38 Approximately 3,000 Americans lost their lives as a result of the destruction of the World Trade Center towers on 9/11. Every single day, more than 3,000 American babies are killed by abortion when you include all forms of abortion.*

*#39* The United States has the highest abortion rate in the western world.

*#40* It has been reported that a staggering 41 percent of all New York City pregnancies end in abortion.

*#41* Most women that get abortions in the United States claim to be Christian. Protestant women get 42 percent of all abortions and Catholic women get 27 percent of all abortions.

*#42* According to Pastor Clenard Childress, approximately 52 percent of all African-American pregnancies now end in abortion.

*#43* About 18 percent of all abortions in the United States each year are performed on teenagers.

*#44* One very shocking study found that 86 percent of all abortions are done for the sake of convenience.

*#45* A Department of Homeland Security report that was released in January 2012 says that if you are “anti-abortion”, you are a potential terrorist.

*#46* Some abortion clinics have been caught selling aborted baby parts to medical researchers.

*#47* Planned Parenthood Founder Margaret Sanger once said the following…

“The most merciful thing that a family does to one of its infant members is to kill it.”

But now she is praised in the halls of the U.S. Congress.

*#48* Planned Parenthood performs more than 300,000 abortions every single year.

*#49* Planned Parenthood specifically targets the poor. A staggering 72 percent of Planned Parenthood’s “customers” have incomes that are either equal to or beneath 150 percent of the federal poverty level. And most of those “customers” live in minority neighborhoods.

*#50* There are 30 Planned Parenthood executives that make more than $200,000 a year. A few of them actually make more than $300,000 a year.

*#51* Planned Parenthood receives hundreds of millions of dollars from the federal government every single year.

*#52* The FDA is actually considering making it legal for doctors and scientists to create “three parent babies” in the United States.

*#53 An all-time high 59 percent of all Americans believe that the traditional definition of marriage needs to be changed.*

*#54* The number of sexual assaults in the U.S. military is at an all-time high, and the majority of them are male on male.

*#55 During 2012, more than 85,000 military veterans were formally treated for sexual abuse that they suffered while serving in the U.S. military.*

*#56* The number of active members of the U.S. military that kill themselves each year now exceeds the number that are dying on the battlefield.

*#57 According to one absolutely shocking study, 22 military veterans kill themselves in the United States every single day.*

*#58* America has the highest incarceration rate and the largest total prison population in the entire world by a wide margin.

*#59 In America today, there are 60 million people that abuse alcohol and there are 22 million people that use illegal drugs.*

*#60* Incredibly, more than 11 percent of all Americans that are 12 years of age or older admit that they have driven home under the influence of alcohol at least once during the past year.

*#61 According to a study conducted by the Mayo Clinic, nearly 70 percent of all Americans are on at least one prescription drug. An astounding 20 percent of all Americans are on at least five prescription drugs.*

*#62 According to the CDC, approximately 9 out of every 10 Americans that are at least 60 years old say that they have taken at least one prescription drug within the last month.*

*#63* Americans spend more than 280 billion dollars on prescription drugs each year.

*#64* According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, doctors in the United States write more than 250 million prescriptions for antidepressants each year.

*#65* *Right now, there are 70 million Americans that are on mind-altering drugs of one form or another.*

*#66* Children in the United States are three times more likely to be prescribed antidepressants than children in Europe are.

*#67 In the United States today, prescription painkillers kill more Americans than heroin and cocaine combined.*

*#68 America has the highest rate of illegal drug use on the entire planet.*

*#69* According to the federal government, the number of heroin addicts in the United States has more than doubled since 2002.

*#70* The number of heroin-related overdose deaths has risen 84 percent just since 2010.

*#71* It is hard to believe, but 56 percent of all Americans now have “subprime credit”.

*#72* Of all the major industrialized nations, America is the most obese. Mexico is #2.

*#73* Only one state in the entire country has an obesity rate of under 20 percent. 11 states have an obesity rate of over 30 percent.

*#74 Back in 1962, only 13 percent of all Americans were obese, but it is being projected that 42 percent of all Americans could be obese by the year 2030.*

*#75 Corruption is rampant throughout our society. In fact, America leads the world in money given to fake charities.*

*#76 Without strong families, our young people are constantly in search of an identity. According to the FBI, there are now more than 1.4 million gang members involved in the 33,000 active criminal gangs in the United States.*

*#77* In 2012, the latest full year that we have numbers for, the rate of violent crime in the United States increased by 15 percent.

*#78* The average young American will spend 10,000 hours playing video games before the age of 21.

*#79* One study discovered that 88 percent of all Americans from age 8 to age 18 play video games, and that approximately four times as many boys are addicted to video games as girls are.

*#80 Average SAT scores have been falling for years, and the level of education that our kids are receiving in most of our public schools is a total joke.*

*#81 At this point, 15-year-olds that attend U.S. public schools do not even rank in the top half of all industrialized nations when it comes to math or science literacy.*

*#82 We live a time when most employers no longer care about their employees. As I wrote about the other day, a company that Warren Buffett has a controlling interest in has decided to shut down a factory in Kentucky and move it to Honduras just so that he can make a little bit more money. As a result, 600 workers are going to lose their jobs.*

*#83* There are more than 3 million reports of child abuse in the United States every single year.

*#84* According to a recent Pew Research Center survey, 60 percent of all Americans believe that “humans and other living things have evolved over time”, while only 33 percent of respondents rejected this statement.

*#85* Nearly one-fifth* of all U.S. adults have no religious affiliation whatsoever. Back in 1972, only 7 percent of all U.S. adults had no religious affiliation.*

*#86 The number of Americans with no religious affiliation has grown by 25 percent over the past five years.*

*#87 The younger you are, the more likely you are not to be affiliated with a religion. 9 percent of all U.S. adults that are 65 or older have no religious affiliation, but a whopping 32 percent of all U.S. adults under the age of 30 have no religious affiliation.*

*#88* 88 percent of those that are religiously unaffiliated “are not looking for religion”.

*#89* 73 percent* of the religiously unaffiliated support gay marriage and 72 percent of the religiously unaffiliated support legalized abortion.*

*#90* *The religiously unaffiliated now make up 24 percent of all registered voters “who are Democrats or lean Democratic”.*

*#91* For the first time ever, Protestants do not make up a majority of the U.S. population. In 2007, Protestants made up 53 percent of the U.S. population, but now they only make up 48 percent of the U.S. population. Way back in 1972, Protestants made up 62 percent of the U.S. population.

*#92* 29 percent of all U.S. adults “seldom or never attend religious services”.

*#93* 51 percent of all U.S. adults believe that churches and other religious organizations “are too concerned with money and power”.

*#94* 66 percent* of all U.S. adults believe that religion is “losing its influence on American life”.*

*#95 According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the number of Americans with “no religion” more than doubled between 1990 and 2008.*

*#96* According to the American Religious Identification Survey, only 76 percent of all Americans identified themselves as “Christian” of one type or another in 2008. Back in 1990, 86 percent of all Americans identified themselves as “Christian” of one type or another.

*#97* A study conducted by the Barna Group discovered that nearly 60 percent of all Christians from 15 years of age to 29 years of age are no longer actively involved in any church.

*#98* It is being projected that the percentage of Americans attending church in 2050 will be about half of what it is today.

*#99* One survey conducted a while back found that 52 percent of all American Christians believe that “at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life”.

*#100* According to LifeWay Research, 46 percent of all Americans never even think about whether they will go to heaven or not.

About the author: Michael T. Snyder is a former Washington D.C. attorney who now publishes The Truth. His new thriller entitled “The Beginning Of The End” is now available on Amazon.com.

100 Facts About The Moral Collapse Of America That Are Almost Too Crazy To Believe



@vostok @senheiser @Hazzy997 @Armstrong @flamer84 @Aeronaut @Gabriel92 @Akheilos

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## Secret Service

thanks to Zionists who own them...

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## Armstrong

@KAL-EL -

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## livingdead

The author seems to be a devout christian who sees things from religious angle. Half of the things mentioned are not wrong in intself.

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## Desert Fox

*American Middle school teacher provides ‘full-contact’ lap dance in front of class for birthday boy*


*



*



*Prosecutors in Houston, Texas charged a middle school teacher because she gave a full-on lap dance to a boy for his birthday in front of an entire class of no-doubt impressed preteens.*

The teacher, Felicia Smith, staged the lap dance in her classroom at Stovall Middle School on February 26, reports local CBS affiliate KHOU.

*When police interviewed the unnamed student, he said Smith, 42, had seductively placed a school chair in front of the classroom after the tardy bell rang. Music began to play – from some undisclosed source – and several students in the class began yelling raucously that the birthday boy should sit down in the chair.*

Once the kid sat down, the forty something teacher gave him what was perhaps his first full-contact lap dance.* According to a police report, Smith did the thing where she turned around and swiveled her butt on the middle school student. She rubbed her hands all over his body. She also got down on her knees and stuck her head between the boy’s legs.*

*It’s not clear if the kid enjoyed the lap dance. However, he admitted that he did slap Smith’s butt a couple times.*

The incident lasted a little over three-and-a-half minutes — presumably the duration of the song that was playing. It’s not clear which song was chosen for the special occasion.

*At the end of the lap dance, Smith hugged the boy and told him, “I love you, baby. Happy birthday,”* according to KHOU.

*When police questioned Smith, she said she provided the lap dance at the urging of students in the class.* She noted that she almost fell down a few times while performing the acrobatics required of the lap dance.

Somebody – it’s not clear who – apparently filmed the spectacle. The Harris County district attorney and the Aldine, Texas police department both have copies of the video.

Smith faces a single criminal charge: improper relationship with student. She is free on a $30,000 bond.

A statement released by the local school district explained that Smith “was removed from the campus during the investigation and has not returned.”

It’s not clear if she is still being paid while her criminal case meanders through the court system.
Middle school teacher provides ‘full-contact’ lap dance in front of class for birthday boy - Yahoo News

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## ranjeet

It's a BS list, a highly religiously motivated one at that too.

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## Star Wars

1/3rd have STD's ???? WTF ??


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## Desert Fox

ranjeet said:


> It's a BS list, a highly religiously motivated one at that too.


A refutation on your part would be intelligent, rather than a one liner rant.

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## Desert Fox

*New York radio hosts fired for transgender remarks *

ROCHESTER, N.Y. (AP) -- Two upstate New York radio hosts have been fired over their on-air comments about Rochester's decision to cover gender reassignment surgery for city employees.

Entercom Rochester on Thursday announced the firings of Kimberly Ray and Barry Beck from WBZA, calling their comments "hateful" and saying they don't represent the station.

Ray referred to someone seeking gender reassignment surgery as "a nut job." Beck equated the issue to having the city pay for breast enhancement or liposuction for a mentally ill woman.

The discussion on their "Breakfast Buzz" show Wednesday had generated 4,000 signatures by Thursday on a removal petition.

Phone numbers for the two were unlisted and they couldn't be reached for comment Thursday.

Beginning Jan. 1, Rochester will cover surgeries and counseling related to gender reassignment.

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## ranjeet

Desert Fox said:


> A refutation on your part would be intelligent, rather than a one liner rant.


Yes indeed it would be, but the article is not worth the effort. How about you? You are just doing a copy paste job, let's take a look at your psychoanalysis of how American/western Societies are on the verge of moral collapse and heading on the path of gradual break down.

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## Desert Fox

*The hypersexualization of American tween culture: Has it gone too far?*














A provocative, borderline alarmist _Newsweek_ story on the hyper-sexualization of American youth culture paints a disturbing picture of Ugg boot–wearing, Taylor Swift–listening girls who are social media obsessed but too young to sign up for Facebook—in other words, tweens.
Tweens range in age from 10 to 12. The term originally referred to those female preadolescents who were too old for toys and too young for boys. But the girls described in this story are all about boys.

The lengthy story titled “Sex and the Single Tween” opens with a shocking conversation between a group of girls, ages 11 and 12, who talk about boobs, boyfriends and oral sex. It’s the sort of conversation that you might remember being a part of as a college student living in a dorm. But 11-year-olds talking about blow jobs? That’s what tween culture has come to according to the story’s author Abigail Jones. Has Jones accurately captured the essence of American girl culture? Let’s hope she’s off the mark.

Jones presents a rather convincing case that the current generation of tweens is far more advanced than girls from past eras. These Juicy Couture girls sport shorter skirts and are more boy-obsessed. They know more about sex and wear more makeup.

*These girls are far more mature because they’re living in a world in which everything that could possibly be sexualized is sexualized, from Halloween costumes to toys. “Rainbow Brite and Strawberry Shortcake have morphed from pudgy cartoon characters into slimmed down infantile sexpots, and even My Little Pony and Candyland — yes, a toy horse and a board game – got sexy makeovers,” Jones writes. What’s more, today’s role models are far trashier. Case in point: Miley Cyrus “twerking” against Robin Thicke’s crotch in a performance at the 2013 Video Music Awards.*

Jones throws out a lot of data to back up her hypothesis that tweens are growing up too fast.

Forty-five percent of 6- to 9-year-old girls use lip gloss or lipstick, 61 percent wear nail polish (up from 54 percent in 2008) and 42 percent use perfume or body spray, according to a 2013 study by Experian Marketing Services. Those numbers jump when girls hit their early teens: 65 percent of 12- to 14-year-olds use lipstick or lip gloss, 84 percent wear nail polish and 78 percent wear perfume.

For decades, it was generally accepted that girls hit puberty at the age of 11. In 1997, a landmark study of 17,000 girls found that the mean age for the beginning of breast development was 8.87 years for African-American girls and 9.96 years for white girls; for pubic hair, it was 8.78 years and 10.51 years, respectively. Then, in 2010, another study found that by the age of 7, 23 percent of black girls, 15 percent of Hispanic girls and 10 percent of white girls had started developing breasts.

A 2005 Kaiser Family Foundation study found that between 1998 and 2005, the number of sex scenes on TV nearly doubled. During prime time, 77 percent of shows included sexual content, averaging nearly six sex-related scenes per hour. Among the top 20 shows for teenagers, 70 percent included sexual content and 45 percent included sexual behavior.

The story also provides a thorough overview of the past generations and how pop culture pushed them to be edgier than the preceding one.

In the 1940s and 1950s, Helen Pessel sold her Little Lady line of cosmetics to 6- to 14-year-olds, and Munsingwear and Teenform marketed bras to young girls.

In 1959, Barbie arrived.

In the 1980s, sexual tension and virginity invaded American girlhood in the forms of Madonna, MTV and the AIDS crisis.

*In the mid-1990s, the cynically infantile British girl band, the Spice Girls, leveraged the purchasing power of millions of preteens and teens by selling music under the guise of girl power.*

*Who’s influencing our girls in the 2000s? Miley Cyrus whose raunchy dance at the Video Music Awards made international headlines? Was Cyrus’s latex outfit any racier than Madonna’s lacy tops?*

*In every era, there are musicians and celebrities who are pushing the limits, grabbing the attention of the youth and sending parents into a tizzy of paranoia, from Elvis to Madonna to Beyonce. And with each era, these infamous icons push the boundaries ever so slightly farther, their costumes and their performances becoming racier. Their influence trickles down to America’s tweens who are compelled to sneak into their mothers’ bathrooms to put on makeup. This has been going on across time. Jones seems to be asking, Have things gone too far this time?*

_*Sexed up children’s toys: Everyone from My Little Pony to Rainbow Brite has gotten a hot makeover. Take a look below.*_

_*The hypersexualization of American tween culture: Has it gone too far? - The Mommy Files*_​

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## cyphercide

Star Wars said:


> 1/3rd have STD's ???? *WTF* ??



Exactly!!! 

I think it is a retroactive figure, including people who were previously diagnosed with any STD as well, and not a current one.


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## Desertfalcon

It would be quite easy for me to cut-and-paste dozens and dozens of horrible stories about brutal and dysfunctional incidents in Pakistani society. Five minutes of Googling and you can find more than are worth mentioning. Everything from brutal rapes, (including boys) and murders of religious, ethnic, social minorities, treatment of women, a violent crime rate considerably higher than in the USA, etc., etc., but unlike *Desert Fox*, I am not a troll and refuse to post stories that are sensationalist, pseudo "facts" and out-right lies, designed to inflame opinion. That is how an adolescent mind posts.

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## Desert Fox

ranjeet said:


> Yes indeed it would be,



I'm glad you agree that your previous post was below intelligent and a complete embarrassment to human intellect.




ranjeet said:


> but the article is not worth the effort. How about you?


You're the one making pathetic one liner rants based on nothing. I couldn't find anything in the article mentioning the authors religion. The article is only stating facts with reliable links.




ranjeet said:


> You are just doing a copy paste job, let's take a look at your psychoanalysis of how American/western Societies are on the verge of moral collapse and heading on the path of gradual break down.





American Virgin was mad that he couldnt find a girl so he goes Rampage and kills 6 People

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## VCheng

Desertfalcon said:


> It would be quite easy for me to cut-and-paste dozens and dozens of horrible stories about brutal and dysfunctional incidents in Pakistani society. Five minutes of Googling and you can find more than are worth mentioning. Everything from brutal rapes, (including boys) and murders of religious, ethnic, social minorities, treatment of women, a violent crime rate considerably higher than in the USA, etc., etc., but unlike *Desert Fox*, I am not a troll and refuse to post stories that are sensationalist, pseudo "facts" and out-right lies, designed to inflame opinion. That is how an adolescent mind posts.



The best thing to do is ignore such purveyors of sh1t.

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## Desert Fox

Desertfalcon said:


> It would be quite easy for me to cut-and-paste dozens and dozens of horrible stories about brutal and dysfunctional incidents in Pakistani society. Five minutes of Googling and you can find more than are worth mentioning. Everything from brutal rapes, (including boys) and murders of religious, ethnic, social minorities, treatment of women, a violent crime rate considerably higher than in the USA, etc., etc., but unlike *Desert Fox*, I am not a troll and refuse to post stories that are sensationalist, pseudo "facts" and out-right lies, designed to inflame opinion. That is how an adolescent mind posts.




Go ahead and fell free to do so. its not like Western media isn't already too concerned with what goes on in Pakistan or any other Muslim country.

And to be quite honest, i won't be offended at all if you did, because wrong is wrong and i won't try to hide it because unlike yourself my ego isn't hurt from accepting the truth.

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## KingMamba

When I was young the internet was just getting started and so I never had access to some of the sites kids these days do. It has less to do with "moral degradation" and more to do with a lack of a filter to shield children from some of these things. By writing moral degradation it implies that adults are ok with the early age sexual realization of their children, which quite frankly is not the case and in fact many parents are quite concerned but have little way of stopping such things today.

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## Desert Fox

VCheng said:


> The best thing to do is ignore such purveyors of sh1t.


I'm not the one publishing these articles (that you label "sh1t"), its from your very own sources (yahoo, Newsweek, etc, unless your implying i own them, which i don't).

Truth hurtz 

*The sexualization of girls: Is the popular culture harming our kids? *


*© 2010-2012 Gwen Dewar, Ph.D., all rights reserved*
What do psychologists mean by the “ sexualization of girls? ”

According to the American Psychological Association, sexualization occurs when *“individuals are regarded as sex objects and evaluated in terms of their physical characteristics and sexiness.”*

This doesn’t sound like something that the parents of young children should have to worry about. *Yet the popular culture seems increasingly accepting of the sexualization of children.*

Examples come from many quarters:

• A photo editorial in Paris Vogue that portrays pre-adolescent girls as heavily made-up, sophisticated _femme fatales_

*• Clothing--including thong underwear--marketed for preschoolers and elementary school kids that feature printed slogans like “Eye Candy” or “Wink Wink” *

*• Fashion dolls marketed at 6-year-old girls that feature sexualized clothing, like fishnet stockings 


• Beauty pageants for little girls, complete with heavy mascara, high heels, and bathing suits *

*• Pornography and sexually-explicit pop music videos that feature young women dressed to resemble little girls *

The examples are creepy. But what exactly is _bad_ about them?

The most common worries are that girls will learn to view themselves as sex objects, or that girls will develop anxieties when they fail to meet popular standards of beauty.

But I’m also concerned about the effects on the population at large. Do media images of sexualized girls change the way we view children? Are people liable to judge children as more sophisticated than they really are? Are we more likely to believe that young girls are willing participants in sexual activity?

There is surprisingly little research on the subject. Still, the worries don’t seem far-fetched.

For example, there is evidence that being self-conscious about one’s sexual attractiveness interferes with intellectual performance. People do more poorly on math tests when they are forced to think about their looks.

It also seems that certain kinds of sexual imagery can make ordinary people form unconscious links between children and sex. Here are the details.

*How concern with body image makes people less smart*

Barbara Frederickson wondered if being concerned with one’s physical appearance might impair one’s ability to think clearly. So she and her colleagues devised an experiment in which they asked 82 college students to change their clothes (Frederickson et al 1998).

Each student was randomly assigned to try on EITHER a crewneck sweater OR a one-piece bathing suit. Next, the student was asked to evaluate the garment and the way it made him or her look. Afterwards, the student was given a math test.

How did the clothing experience relate to the students’ subsequent performance on the math test?

For male students, there was no difference between conditions. But for female students, the swimming suit experience had a more negative effect: Women performed significantly worse on the math test after changing into the bathing suit.

A subsequent study found that both sexes were adversely affected by the swimming suit experience (Hebl et al 2004). Does something akin to the “stupid swimming suit” effect apply to our kids? Nobody yet has done the research. But it seems rather likely.

*Evidence that sexual images of minors influence the way we view children*

Does the sexualization of young girls affect the way ordinary people regard kids? This isn’t easy to test. As you might imagine, ethical considerations make experiments very difficult.

The most relevant study to date tested the effects of “barely legal” pornography, in which an 18-year-old model is made to look younger. Researchers Bryant Paul and Daniel Linz presented 154 undergraduates --the majority of whom were women-- with sexually-explicit images.

Some images depicted adult women who appeared to be at least 21 years old. Other images depicted females who appeared to be minors.

Afterward presenting these images, the researchers administered a classic test of unconscious association. They presented the study participants with a series of images and words on a computer screen. The test worked like this:

First an image was flashed on the screen—e.g., a non-sexual image of a girl who appeared to be about 12 years old.

Next, a series of letters appeared. Sometimes, these letters spelled out a word (e.g., “beauty”). In other cases, the letters spelled out a nonsense word (e.g., “bartey”).

Participants were instructed to press the ‘W’ key as soon as they could tell whether or not the letters spelled out a genuine word. If the letters spelled out a nonsense word, participants were to press the ‘N’ key.

Study participants evaluated an array of words, including neutral words (“window,” basket,” cloudy”) and words with sexual connotations (“sexy” “erotic” and “arousing”).

The researchers measured reaction times, and compared them with the reaction times of people who had been shown pornographic images of apparently adult women. How long did it take people to accurately classify the words and nonsense words?

It depended on the words and the images.

The people who’d seen the “barely legal ****” were quicker to recognize words with sexual connotations when those words were presented immediately after an _nonsexual,_ image of a girl who appeared to be around 12 years old.

*Implications*

Did the viewers of barely legal **** become more tolerant of child sexual abuse? Researchers found no evidence of this.

But the most accepted interpretation of word association effects is that people have an easier time recognizing words when these words are already “on our minds.”

It’s called spreading activation--the idea that viewing an image makes your mind activate memories and associations that are linked with the image. So if you see a table, some part of your mind is ready to think about chairs, too.

The “barely legal” study suggests that ordinary--people who aren’t pedophiles--have no trouble learning to associate 12-year-old girls with sexuality. And that was after only a brief exposure to simulated images of _teen_ sexuality in the laboratory.

What happens when people are repeatedly exposed? What happens when the imagery features 7-year-old girls, rather than adolescents? And what happens when pedophiles see the popular culture endorsing the sexualization of children?

These questions haven't been addressed by current research. But the stakes seem high. Perhaps in the next few years, new studies will help us understand the true costs of sexualizing children. 

*References: The sexualization of girls*

Fortenberry JD. 2009. An article and commentaries on the sexualization of girls. J Sex Res. 46(4):249.

Fredrickson BL, Roberts TA, Noll SM, Quinn DM, and Twenge JM. 1998. That swimsuit becomes you: sex differences in self-objectification, restrained eating, and math performance. J Pers Soc Psychol. 75(1):269-84.

Hebl MR, King EB, and Lin J. 2004. The swimsuit becomes us all: ethnicity, gender, and vulnerability to self-objectification. Pers Soc Psychol Bull. 30(10):1322-31.

Paul B and Linz D. 2008. The effects of exposure to virtual child pornography on viewer cognitions and attitudes toward deviant sexual behavior Communication Research 35(1): 3-38.

Sherman AM and Zurbriggen. 2014. “Boys Can Be Anything”: Effect of Barbie Play on Girls’ Career Cognitions. Sex Roles

Wonderlich AL, Ackard DM, and Henderson JB. 2005. Childhood beauty pageant contestants: associations with adult disordered eating and mental health. Eat Disord. 13(3):291-301.

Content last modified 10/12

- See more at: The sexualization of girls: Is the popular culture harming kids?

- See more at: The sexualization of girls: Is the popular culture harming kids?

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## pkuser2k12

Desert Fox said:


> I'm glad you agree that your previous post was below intelligent and a complete embarrassment to human intellect.
> 
> 
> 
> You're the one making pathetic one liner rants based on nothing. I couldn't find anything in the article mentioning the authors religion. The article is only stating facts with reliable links.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> American Virgin was mad that he couldnt find a girl so he goes Rampage and kills 6 People



crazy psycho incident 

sir g the boy was son of assistant director of the movie Hunger games

'Hunger Games' Assistant Director Is The Father of Santa Barbara Shooter


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## Desert Fox

KingMamba said:


> When I was young the internet was just getting started and so I never had access to some of the sites kids these days do. It has less to do with "moral degradation" and more to do with a lack of a filter to shield children from some of these things. By writing moral degradation it implies that adults are ok with the early age sexual realization of their children, which quite frankly is not the case and in fact many parents are quite concerned but have little way of stopping such things today.



Its not only the internet, but its also Tv shows, movies, kids toys, commercials/advertizements, etc... So how many things will the parents try to "filter"?? It's become unavoidable. Sexually suggestive content is everywhere, from billboards to adds on public buses.

What has happened is that most parents have been mentally conditioned overtime to believe that all of this is the "norm", and now can't do much about it.

In the West, SEX SELLS, so everyone's profiting from this hypersexualized capitalistic society that worships material.



pkuser2k12 said:


> 'Hunger Games' Assistant Director Is The Father of Santa Barbara Shooter


He was from a well to do family. He grew up with most things within his grasp. But he grew up in a hyper sexualized capitalistic society that worships materialism. A society that lacks the respect for the human being based on his productiveness, but rather on his wealth and sexual status etc.

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## ranjeet

Desert Fox said:


> I'm glad you agree that your previous post was below intelligent and a complete embarrassment to human intellect.
> 
> You're the one making pathetic one liner rants based on nothing. I couldn't find anything in the article mentioning the authors religion. The article is only stating facts with reliable links.
> 
> American Virgin was mad that he couldnt find a girl so he goes Rampage and kills 6 People


 
Are you sure you talking about my post and not this whole thread? 
As far as complete embarrassment to human intellect is concerned, after copying and pasting so many articles yet you are having trouble to collect your wits and contribute even a pathetic one liner rant. that is of course is name calling and getting personal is what you gauges intellect with. 
So let me ask you once again ... Are you capable of analyzing an article and present your view about it, or are you going to stick to compliment the human intellect with a cut and paste job !!!

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## pkuser2k12

Desert Fox said:


> Its not only the internet, but its also Tv shows, movies, kids toys, commercials/advertizements, etc... So how many things will the parents try to "filter"?? It's become unavoidable. Sexually suggestive content is everywhere, from billboards to adds on public buses.
> 
> What has happened is that most parents have been mentally conditioned overtime to believe that all of this is the "norm", and now can't do much about it.
> 
> In the West, SEX SELLS, so everyone's profiting from this hypersexualized capitalistic society that worships material.
> 
> 
> He was from a well to do family. He grew up with most things within his grasp. But he grew up in a hyper sexualized capitalistic society that worships materialism. A society that lacks the respect for the human being based on his productiveness, but rather on his wealth and sexual status etc.



A major source of such degradation is media 

shaid current Pakistani media turmoil say koi rules ban jaen esi chezon kay khilaf jis taraf hum barhtay ja rahay hayn balkay barh chukay hayn

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## Desert Fox

ranjeet said:


> Are you sure you talking about my post and not this whole thread?
> As far as complete embarrassment to human intellect is concerned, after copying and pasting so many articles yet you are having trouble to collect your wits and contribute even a pathetic one liner rant. that is of course is name calling and getting personal is what you gauges intellect with.



The amount of trash in your head is truly appalling!  But after a while its understandable.



ranjeet said:


> So let me ask you once again ... Are you capable of analyzing an article and present your view about it, or are you going to stick to compliment the human intellect with a cut and paste job !!!



And i quote myself:

You're the one making pathetic one liner rants based on nothing, come back with a proper refutation. I couldn't find anything in the article mentioning the authors religion. The article is only stating facts with reliable links.

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## The SC

These are US statistics, and believable at that, since they maintain one of the best statistics institutions in the world along with Canada.
If you live in north America or have lived here for a while and have been interested in social statistics, you would find this article very realistic. I once read statistics about one high-school/college here in Canada with 92 % STD in a city of around 100 000 population, and please do not get me wrong, those were official statistics.
I think the article's author forgot to mention the American official stats about the adultery rate even in this low figure of marriage in the US, which is about 85% for males and 75% for females, these figures are reversed in Canada between males and females.
Should we say that he is too secular for neglecting these facts? Since some say that he is too religious for bringing up official statistic figures.

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## ranjeet

Desert Fox said:


> The amount of trash in your head is truly appalling!  But after a while its understandable.
> 
> And i quote myself:
> 
> You're the one making pathetic one liner rants based on nothing, come back with a proper refutation. I couldn't find anything in the article mentioning the authors religion. The article is only stating facts with reliable links.


Where did i mentioned authors religion? I said it's religiously motivated as the author himself propound the idea that by not following religion the western society is morally collapsing.

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## SenLin

Still, endless masses of Muslims & others prefer every year this evil, bankrupt & doomed west over their shitholes. So the Zionists who control us must make something very good if so many want to live here.

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## Chronos

Desert Fox said:


> A refutation on your part would be intelligent, rather than a one liner rant.



Here is a refutation.

Look at the long lines in the Visa offices in South Asian nations.

No matter how you slice it, the U.S. of A provides a better life, better social mobility, tolerance than any feudal societies on this planet.

Especially of the countries which the posters claiming to be of moral high ground



SenLin said:


> Still, endless masses of Muslims & others prefer every year this evil, bankrupt & doomed west over their shitholes. So the Zionists who control us must make something very good if so many want to live here.



Precisely my point.

The living standards in New Zealand is far better than where I come from.

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## Desert Fox

The SC said:


> These are US statistics, and believable at that, since they maintain one of the best statistics institutions in the world along with Canada.
> If you live in north America or have lived here for a while and have been interested in social statistics, you would find this article very realistic. I once read statistics about one high-school/college here in Canada with 92 % STD in a city of around 100 000 population, and please do not get me wrong, those were official statistics.
> I think the article's author forgot to mention the American official stats about the adultery rate even in this low figure of marriage in the US, which is about 85% for males and 75% for females, these figures are reversed in Canada between males and females.
> *Should we say that he is too secular for neglecting these facts? Since some say that he is too religious for bringing up official statistic figures.*


Exactly!! Try telling this to that nincompoop @ranjeet

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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Its not only the internet, but its also Tv shows, movies, kids toys, commercials/advertizements, etc... So how many things will the parents try to "filter"?? It's become unavoidable. Sexually suggestive content is everywhere, from billboards to adds on public buses.
> 
> What has happened is that most parents have been mentally conditioned overtime to believe that all of this is the "norm", and now can't do much about it.
> 
> In the West, SEX SELLS, so everyone's profiting from this hypersexualized capitalistic society that worships material.



That was my point it is unavoidable, but no parent likes it. I wouldn't call it moral degradation because the morality of people here is still higher than most other nations.

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## Falcon29

Desert Fox said:


> The amount of trash in your head is truly appalling!  But after a while its understandable.
> 
> 
> 
> And i quote myself:
> 
> You're the one making pathetic one liner rants based on nothing, come back with a proper refutation. I couldn't find anything in the article mentioning the authors religion. The article is only stating facts with reliable links.



The only I thing some secular might consider a religious POV is the part about abortion statistics and sex out of wedlock. 

Although secular people don't understand that this is reaching children quickly and it's getting extreme. It's only going to develop into a worse habit especially for young children. 

I've seen 10 year old girls dressing like celebrities in adult concerts. Little kids are doing drugs, sexuality is getting way too insane. Being a girl nowadays means you need to do your friends sexual favors. I'm not joking, if they haven't already gotten her drunk and done the deed. 

Eventually something is going to hit this society, there may be future backlashes.

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## Desert Fox

ranjeet said:


> Where did i mentioned authors religion? I said it's religiously motivated as the author himself propound the idea that by not following religion the western society is morally collapsing.




Nowhere did the author state such a thing or imply it. He did say the following in the beginning of the article:



> The collection of facts and statistics that you are about to read is highly controversial. A lot of people are going to be greatly upset by it. Why? Because they don’t like to be confronted with the truth about America. Most people tend to believe that we can “fix this country” by getting the right politicians into power or by implementing certain economic or social reforms. But the reality of the matter is that our problems go far deeper than that. A moral collapse is eating away at the foundations of our society like cancer. If it continues to go unchecked, it will inevitably destroy America. Unfortunately, fixing moral decay is far more difficult than switching out political parties, because it is in the hearts of hundreds of millions of individual Americans. And most people don’t want to hear anything about a “moral collapse”, because most people like to think that the United States is setting a “good example” for the rest of the planet. But as you will see below, that is not the case at all.



Nothing "religiously motivated" there.

Having lived in America for 19 years, one can clearly see that this article is not fictitious, especially when considering the fact that the author uses gov.t and other reliable sources like CDC, etc.

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## Falcon29

KingMamba said:


> That was my point it is unavoidable, but no parent likes it.



You're wrong, I've been to a birthday 'gathering' and parents were fine with drinking. Two girls who were also drunk were all over each other doing all kinds of things. I almost left until they left short after that. 

Mamba, you're still ahead of us, you haven't seen our generation. 



Desert Fox said:


> Nowhere did the author state such a thing or imply it. He did say the following in the beginning of the article:
> 
> 
> 
> Nothing "religiously motivated" there.
> 
> Having lived in America for 19 years, one can clearly see that this article is not fictitious, especially when considering the fact that the author uses gov.t and other reliable sources like CDC, etc.



You live here? You're 19 years old?


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## KingMamba

Hazzy997 said:


> You're wrong, I've been to a birthday 'gathering' and parents were fine with drinking. Two girls who were also drunk were all over each other doing all kinds of things. I almost left until they left short after that.
> 
> Mamba, you're still ahead of us, you haven't seen our generation.



I am pretty sure I am younger than you. Some parents may be Ok with drinking but they are usually in the minority.

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## Falcon29

KingMamba said:


> I am pretty sure I am younger than you. Some parents may be Ok with drinking but they are usually in the minority.



There's no way you're younger than me. 

You don't nothing yet that people do trying to imitate movies and stuff. I've seen the most good looking girls at this one school who hung out with their friends. Obviously they were drinking and from there it turned into a you know what between all of them. And I thought these girls were polite and innocent. Trust me it's crazier than you think, you just need to be at these events. In high school there was also a oral party not kidding you called a rainbow party.

I didn't believe it at first. Things have gotten out of control and just messed up.

I apologize for being too graphic.


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## Desert Fox

Ravi Nair said:


> Here is a refutation.
> 
> Look at the long lines in the Visa offices in South Asian nations.
> 
> No matter how you slice it, the U.S. of A provides a better life, better social mobility, tolerance than any feudal societies on this planet.
> 
> Especially of the countries which the posters claiming to be of moral high ground
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely my point.
> 
> The living standards in New Zealand is far better than where I come from.




You are right, that America and other Western countries do indeed provide a better quality of living compared to other countries of the world. If i were to try and deny that fact then i'd be fooling none but myself. However, quality isn't just in terms of material living standards and the availability of goods, otherwise we wouldn't see such shootings taking place on a monthly basis, along with massive drug addiction and alcohol abuse which leads to other heinous crimes. Why do a good percentage of Americans take anti-depressants?? Why do a lot of young girls resort to working in the pornographic industry and young men to selling drugs to pay off college debt because they can't find a proper job to sustain themselves due to restricted job market?? Why only 20% of Americans own 93% of wealth?? Why is degeneracy spreading at such a rapid speed amongst the youth of the nation, the very people who will take responsibility of the nation in the future??

It seems, that material satisfaction can never fill in certain important voids.

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## KingMamba

Hazzy997 said:


> There's no way you're younger than me.
> 
> You don't nothing yet that people do trying to imitate movies and stuff. I've seen the most good looking girls at this one school who hung out with their friends. Obviously they were drinking and from there it turned into a you know what between all of them. And I thought these girls were polite and innocent. Trust me it's crazier than you think, you just need to be at these events. In high school there was also a oral party not kidding you called a rainbow party.
> 
> I didn't believe it at first. Things have gotten out of control and just messed up.
> 
> I apologize for being too graphic.



Bro I am 20 and have attended many of these parties even got an orgy invite once lmao I have pretty much seen everything and I attended most of these parties when I was in high school around 16 years old. That being said I know that many parents are not fans of such things although it is true when desertfox says they have started to accept them as a norm they cannot fight.

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## VCheng

Summary of this thread:

*"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."* - George Bernard Shaw.

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## ranjeet

Read the list from Point 84 onwards. that's what gives it a religious tone. not doubting the stats I called the list BS because every nation suffers from some sort of social ills in varying degrees. But calling it moral collapse and gradual break down of society is presumptuous. 


Desert Fox said:


> Nowhere did the author state such a thing or imply it. He did say the following in the beginning of the article:
> 
> Nothing "religiously motivated" there.
> 
> Having lived in America for 19 years, one can clearly see that this article is not fictitious, especially when considering the fact that the author uses gov.t and other reliable sources like CDC, etc.

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## Falcon29

@Ravi Nair 

I'm not claiming any moral high ground for other nations. You're right about your points. Although immoral things from where I come are not even close. An immoral thing would be a couple going on a date before marriage. That's a redline and not common. Sex out of wedlock is very rare as well, you're talking dozens or hundreds of people who have done so out of the near 2 million population. 

Morality wise, when it comes to other aspects of life of course western nations shine.



KingMamba said:


> Bro I am 20 and have attended many of these parties even got an orgy invite once lmao I have pretty much seen everything and I attended most of these parties when I was in high school around 16 years old. That being said I know that many parents are not fans of such things although it is true when desertfox says they have started to accept them as a norm they cannot fight.



I gotta hear that story in the Arabic coffee shop.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

VCheng said:


> The best thing to do is ignore such purveyors of sh1t.



just like everybody ignores you... actually hate you and is disgusted by you.

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## VCheng



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## DESERT FIGHTER

VCheng said:


>



lmao.....................

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## KingMamba

Hazzy997 said:


> I gotta hear that story in the Arabic coffee shop.



Not much of a story actually.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

VCheng said:


> Summary of this thread:
> 
> *"I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."* - George Bernard Shaw.



attention dont wrestle with this guy .. 

This guy got his education in Pak.. mocks our martyred soldiers... hates our country.. is a pessimist when it comes to Pak n its future......but look at this advocating usa in every other thread.. which doesnt even concern him..Pathetic.

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## Indus Falcon

@DESERT FIGHTER Yara ek baat batao, how come people can insult Islam on this forum and don't get banned?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abu Nasar said:


> @DESERT FIGHTER Yara ek baat batao, how come people can insult Islam on this forum and don't get banned?



how about mockin our martyrs n getting away with it?

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## Indus Falcon

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> attention dont wrestle with this guy he likes it..
> 
> this guy got his education in Pak.. mocks our martyred soldiers... hate our country.. is a pessimist but look at this thing advocation usa in every other thread.. which doesnt even concern him.. self hating coconut.



Inferiority Complex, or he is not a (ex)Pakistani. Pick one



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> how about mockin our martyrs n getting away with it?



I simply don't understand why the mods do this!

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abu Nasar said:


> Inferiority Complex, or he is not a (ex)Pakistani. Pick one
> 
> 
> 
> I simply don't understand why the mods do this!



Sir ... misal tu suni hogi ... same case.

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## VCheng

Chillaxin'!

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## VCheng

Enjoy the long weekend!

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## Indus Falcon

VCheng said:


> Enjoy the long weekend!


Who are these, your boy friends?

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## Indus Falcon

VCheng said:


> Pool party time!


With cows? What's wrong with you man, you got no taste. Now I'm sure you are Indian!

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## VCheng

Abu Nasar said:


> With cows? What's wrong with you man, you got no taste. Now I'm sure you are Indian!



Is that photo not typical of the topic of this thread? We must stay on topic! 

===============================






========================================

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## VCheng

How much of that list above is also applicable to other countries in the region?

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## Desert Fox

ranjeet said:


> Read the list from Point 84 onwards. that's what gives it a religious tone. not doubting the stats I called the list BS because every nation suffers from some sort of social ills in varying degrees. But calling it moral collapse and gradual break down of society is presumptuous.


Ok, i see where you're coming from. 

This is how i see it from point 84 onwards: America's dominant religion (the faith practiced by majority of Americans since the country's independence) is Christianity, a religion in which sexual promiscuity and other obscene sexual acts are strictly prohibited and the observance of modesty and self restraint is considered a religious obligation. What the article is pointing out is that gradually, over time, as the influence of Christianity has decreased and the more Americans have abandoned their Christian values, the acceptance of premarital sex and hypersexualization of the society as well as the indulgence in promiscuous sexual behaviors has increased drastically.

Though, besides sexual degeneration, there are other forms of degeneration as well like judging people based on how much money they have, the more $$ you have in your pocket the more influence you have over officials in important offices and seats of power like the media, gov.t, etc (yeah, this does happen in America too). The worship of material wealth is appalling, and capitalism ingrained this corrupt mindset within the people where everyone just wants to make money, even if through illegal means and as long as its under the radar, regardless if someone else's well being is sacrificed in the process.

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## Desert Fox

Hazzy997 said:


> The only I thing some secular might consider a religious POV is the part about abortion statistics and sex out of wedlock.
> 
> Although secular people don't understand that this is reaching children quickly and it's getting extreme. It's only going to develop into a worse habit especially for young children.
> 
> I've seen 10 year old girls dressing like celebrities in adult concerts. Little kids are doing drugs, sexuality is getting way too insane. *Being a girl nowadays means you need to do your friends sexual favors. I'm not joking, if they haven't already gotten her drunk and done the deed. *
> 
> Eventually something is going to hit this society, there may be future backlashes.


Yeah, i know quite a lot of guys who boast and brag about how they don't need gf's or that they don't want to get married since they have girls as "friends with benefits" with whom they can hook up at any moment.

A very sick society indeed. Its very tragic because most of these young people have potential and they could be doing something constructive for society rather than getting drunk or high and screwing a different person every other night and then getting pregnant or acquiring a STD and ruining their own future. 



Hazzy997 said:


> You live here? You're 19 years old?


I'm currently residing in Pakistan on a visit and will return very soon. And no, i'm not 19.

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## Contrarian

Desertfalcon said:


> It would be quite easy for me to cut-and-paste dozens and dozens of horrible stories about brutal and dysfunctional incidents in Pakistani society. Five minutes of Googling and you can find more than are worth mentioning. Everything from brutal rapes, (including boys) and murders of religious, ethnic, social minorities, treatment of women, a violent crime rate considerably higher than in the USA, etc., etc., but unlike *Desert Fox*, I am not a troll and refuse to post stories that are sensationalist, pseudo "facts" and out-right lies, designed to inflame opinion. That is how an adolescent mind posts.


Well said.

These people who post threads like this are the ones who are truly blind to all ills in their society. Yet they are the first to point fingers at another society - which by almost all counts is far better than their own.

Almost _each and every_ Pakistani would love to jump ship and live in the US/West if he/she could. That, I think is the most conclusive proof of which society is fundamentally flawed and which is not.

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## Desert Fox

*After Weed Legalized in Colorado, Fourth-Graders Bring It to Sell at School*






GREELEY, COLO. – *Several elementary school students in Colorado were suspended Tuesday after school officials discovered they were selling and trading stolen, loose-leaf marijuana and edible forms of the drug at school.*

"Over the past two days, we have had two separate incidents of students bringing marijuana into our school, both in the form of loose-leaf marijuana and an edible form of the drug," Jennifer Sheldon, principal of *Montfort Elementary School*, wrote in a letter to parents.

On Monday, a fourth-grade student brought loose-leaf marijuana to school and sold it to three other students, reports KUSA-TV.

*One of the students who purchased pot brought a marijuana edible to school the following day and gave it to the kid who initially sold him loose-leaf pot, according to school officials.*

The drug deal was exposed by yet another student who told a teacher. According to school officials, the students stole it from their grandparents who didn't lock it up.

None of the kids where charged, however the students involved have been suspended.

At the school district's request, the grandparents will not be charged either. Instead, they're hoping this will serve as a warning to any adult who consumes marijuana.

*"The word of warning is this stuff is dangerous and we wish they would secure it much like they would a firearm or something that could get in the hands of kids," *said John Gates, director of school safety for Greeley School District 6.



Contrarian said:


> Well said.
> 
> These people who post threads like this are the ones who are truly blind to all ills in their society. Yet they are the first to point fingers at another society - which by almost all counts is far better than their own.
> 
> Almost _each and every_ Pakistani would love to jump ship and live in the US/West if he/she could. That, I think is the most conclusive proof of which society is fundamentally flawed and which is not.


Bharatis never fail to disappoint when it comes to posting nonsensical rants.

Anyhow, this was my response to @Desertfalcon 's post:



Desert Fox said:


> Go ahead and fell free to do so. its not like Western media isn't already too concerned with what goes on in Pakistan or any other Muslim country.
> 
> And to be quite honest, i won't be offended at all if you did, because wrong is wrong and i won't try to hide it because unlike yourself my ego isn't hurt from accepting the truth.



I have every right to point out the wrong in society whether it be American or Pakistani. At least i am constructively discussing the issues rather than posting complete off topic rants that make absolutely no sense at all (like yours).

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## Nike

Still so many Pakistani, Arabs, Libyan, Syrian everyone of you who has been called pious Hajj and ummah want to stay and living in USA and getting parts in this moral decadent society

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## Dubious

Hahahaha...funny thread! Esp the part where some people are turning a blind eye and protecting a country that is not even theirs where the people of that land wouldnt blink an eye to agree with most of what OP has stated....

The people may be nice (no doubt)...As for the parents accepting it or not...the fact is there is moral degradation when parents cant stop it and end up accepting it as the norm!

I only go there for visiting not for living!

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## pkuser2k12

Self deleted.......................................


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## Bratva

*15-Year-Old Girl’s Birthday Party*

*

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

*
Apparently original video was deleted on youtube.

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## Koovie

_*Aha ....... and still millions of South Asians/Asians flock into those countries which have the highest living standards in the world*_

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## Audio

Desert Fox said:


> In the West, SEX SELLS, so everyone's profiting from this hypersexualized capitalistic society that worships material.



There's a reason prostitution is called the oldest profession on Earth.


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## pkuser2k12

self deleted..........................


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## Audio

mafiya said:


> *15-Year-Old Girl’s Birthday Party*
> 
> *
> 
> Embedded media from this media site is no longer available
> 
> *



What is so morally degrading in this video?


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## Bratva

Audio said:


> What is so morally degrading in this video?



Are 15 years allow to do that? Drink, smoke pot, makeout leading to sex? 

If it doesn't seem Morally degrading to you than what standards are set by americans for morality?

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## Audio

mafiya said:


> Are 15 years allow to do that? Drink, smoke pot, makeout?



Allowed? No.

But you probably heard the story about the forbidden fruit being the sweetest.....



mafiya said:


> If it doesn't seem Morally degrading to you than what standards are set by americans for morality?



It's a pitty i cannot answer you properly due to the infractions i would receive. But i do wonder what is so degrading in dancing and smoking and kissing here and there?


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## Bratva

Audio said:


> Allowed? No.
> 
> *But you probably heard the story about the forbidden fruit being the sweetest*.....



Is it morally acceptable? If not, than where was your sense of sense of morality when you said what's morally degrading


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## Audio

mafiya said:


> Is it morally acceptable? If not, than where was your sense of sense of morality when you said what's morally degrading



Yes, having fun is morally acceptable, it is even beneficial medically. As there are different types of people on this Earth, different types of having fun apply, ofcourse always in the normal range of not affecting someone's freedom with your fun.

You should try kissing sometimes. It's nice.


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## Bratva

Audio said:


> Yes, having fun is morally acceptable, it is even beneficial medically. As there are different types of people on this Earth, different types of having fun apply, ofcourse always in the normal range of not affecting someone's freedom with your fun.
> 
> You should try kissing sometimes. It's nice.



So as per your thinking, morality is not interfering in someone else freedom as long as they do whatever but morality in original sense is not to overstep the bounds . Having such skew morality standards is leading to overall degradation of society which is what topic is all about.


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## 500

Desert Fox said:


> *#19* 70 percent of all men in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket visit at least one adult website each month.


30 percent of all men in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket are liars. That's indeed a moral collapse.

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## Hakan

500 said:


> 30 percent of all men in the 18 to 24-year-old age bracket are liars. That's indeed a moral collapse.



Nice one.


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## Hamartia Antidote

In any country you are going to find extremes. Some people lead highly religious lives while others go the complete opposite path. The problem is when you take the actions of one of these extremes and then make a generalization about the entire country.

There will be rich, poor, and people in the middle. You are going to have your Einsteins and your Charles Mansons.

As an example people who put their little kids in beauty pageants are looked at as weird and must be having something to prove (maybe they had low self esteem as a child themselves). Most parents find it shocking...but it isn't illegal so what can you do?

The way it is presented here sounds like they have applications to these things on the walls of every school in the US. In reality it is a fringe thing and probably localized to some area in the South.


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## Audio

mafiya said:


> So as per your thinking, morality is not interfering in someone else freedom as long as they do whatever but morality in original sense is not to overstep the bounds .



That's not what i said is it? I said it is morally acceptable to have fun (not what morality is) as long as your fun isn't interfering with someone who doesn't want it. In other words, to not overstep the bounds. In yet more other words, in a concrete example, it is appropriate to have fun, but not to make fun of someone because of whatever deficiencies that someone might have.



mafiya said:


> Having such skew morality standards is leading to overall degradation of society which is what topic is all about.



Ya, that's why the hordes are gathering at the gates and risking lives crossing the Mediteranean sea with ships that can barely float to get here.


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## Desertfalcon

Scottish actor and comedian Billy Connollly did a mini-series on the famous American road, _Route 66. _Start the video at 13:00 min., (or watch the whole thing. ) as it is relevant to today as it is Memorial Day here in the USA. It was filmed during the hight of the last steep recession and it is pretty much how America and Americans _actually _are...

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## Desert Fox

Akheilos said:


> Hahahaha...funny thread! Esp the part where some people are turning a blind eye and protecting a country that is not even theirs where the people of that land wouldnt blink an eye to agree with most of what OP has stated....
> 
> The people may be nice (no doubt)...As for the parents accepting it or not...the fact is there is moral degradation when parents cant stop it and end up accepting it as the norm!
> 
> I only go there for visiting not for living!



Don't get me wrong, America isn't a bad place, and its a lot safer to live in America than in most countries of the world for the most part. And as someone who grew up in America for the most of my life i can attest to that fact. I had the opportunity to become successful in life in America, and for that there is nothing i can do that would be enough to repay my debt to the American nation.

People here have it wrong if they think i criticize America out of hatred or that i despise America. I care about this country and i refuse to live in a delusional fantasy like the rest who overlook this degeneracy and irresponsibility becoming rampant in our society. I opened this thread out of my concern for the future of this great nation because it matters to me. Everything i have posted on this thread highlights the major issues our society faces today that no generation of Americans before us has faced at such a massive scale and that alone is a reason for great concern to the rest of us, and for some reason our highly politicized/politically correct and hypersexualized media intentionally does not cover these major issues. Thus, as a responsible citizen i take it upon myself as my moral obligation to bring to the attention of as many people as possible these ground realities.


@VCheng @Desertfalcon @KingMamba @Hazzy997


*"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. 
The only foundation for a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty."
- John Adams, June 21, 1776*

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## Desert Fox

Audio said:


> Yes, having fun is morally acceptable, it is even beneficial medically.
> 
> As there are different types of people on this Earth, different types of having fun apply, ofcourse always in the normal range of not affecting someone's freedom with your fun.
> 
> You should try kissing sometimes. It's nice.




Having fun is acceptable. However what you are justifying in that video cannot in any way be considered "fun" or "medically beneficial". For one, those are all underage kids smoking and drinking alcohol. Not only are they putting their own lives at danger but also the lives of others. These same kids under the influence get into car accidents injuring or killing themselves and others as well.

Secondly, making out and hooking up with random strangers and that too while under the influence puts the person at risk of acquiring various STD's. And the person who already has STD will be spreading it amongst those who don't have it. I have had the misfortune of knowing a few people who have acquired mono through shared drinking and making out with complete strangers at high school and college parties.

That behavior in that video can in no way be considered "fun" and "medically beneficial". Rather, that is purely irresponsible behavior which has become very common amongst American teenagers! *And these are the people who are supposed to inherit the American nation from their predecessors and expand upon (more like leave neglected) the hard labor of the older generations?? *

George Washington and the founding fathers of America as well as Abraham Lincoln would shoot themselves if they were to see the state of their nation today. These men struggled with their lives hanging in the balance for the sake of this Nation, and to see that it all leads to this is very disappointing and heart breaking indeed.

@Aeronaut @Jungibaaz What's with the lines over the text of my post??

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## Desert Fox

@Desertfalcon @VCheng @Peter C 

A interesting video i thought i should share with you guys:


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## Developereo

Desert Fox said:


> People here have it wrong if they think i criticize America out of hatred or that i despise America.



Ignore the drama queens.

Some people here have a tendency to act precious when anything negative is said about their country. This despite the fact that there are many negative aspects of other countries and societies debated here all the time.

Now, coming to the article itself, I have three comments:

- the title is needlessly provocative; there is no imminent "collapse" although many conservatives would concur that morality has declined. The comparison isn't with the rest of the world, but with one's ideals. Each person will have different ideals and they may not agree with the author's ideals.

- the article is weighted a bit too much towards religiosity and, particularly, Christianity. I got a chuckle out of *#99* One survey conducted a while back found that 52 percent of all American Christians believe that “at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life”.

- the comments from some people about visa lines misses the point. People also form long lines to get a visa to Middle Eastern countries. Does that mean that those countries are beacons of human rights? People go where they can earn more money.

Many south Asian parents in the West would admit their apprehensions about kids (especially girls) growing up too fast in the West. This concern is shared by conservatives in the West also. Willam Bennet, an American conservative, has written about the "coarsening" of American culture.

So, bottom line, there are many people who are concerned about the trend towards what they view as moral decline, and that trend is led by the global media, which is dominated by American media.

It is legitimate to debate this issue without acting like a drama queen.

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## jandk

Developereo said:


> Ignore the drama queens.
> 
> Some people here have a tendency to act precious when anything negative is said about their country. This despite the fact that there are many negative aspects of other countries and societies debated here all the time.
> 
> Now, coming to the article itself, I have three comments:
> 
> - the title is needlessly provocative; there is no imminent "collapse" although many conservatives would concur that morality has declined. The comparison isn't with the rest of the world, but with one's ideals. Each person will have different ideals and they may not agree with the author's ideals.
> 
> - the article is weighted a bit too much towards religiosity and, particularly, Christianity. I got a chuckle out of *#99* One survey conducted a while back found that 52 percent of all American Christians believe that “at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life”.
> 
> - the comments from some people about visa lines misses the point. People also form long lines to get a visa to Middle Eastern countries. Does that mean that those countries are beacons of human rights? People go where they can earn more money.
> 
> *Many south Asian parents in the West would admit their apprehensions about kids (especially girls) growing up too fast in the West. This concern is shared by conservatives in the West also. Willam Bennet, an American conservative, has written about the "coarsening" of American culture.*
> 
> So, bottom line, there are many people who are concerned about the trend towards what they view as moral decline, and that trend is led by the global media, which is dominated by American media.
> 
> It is legitimate to debate this issue without acting like a drama queen.



I completely agree with you on all counts. The bolded part especially holds true even for people who have criticized the OP in this thread.


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## Developereo

jandk said:


> I completely agree with you on all counts. The bolded part especially holds true even for people who have criticized the OP in this thread.



There are many, many things about Western society which are admirable and, I would say, superior to our countries: meritocracy, respect for rule of law, work ethic, better civic sense, etc.

However, the permissiveness and sexualization (especially of kids) makes many people uncomfortable. And it's not just the "brown migrants". The white folks also don't like this trend.


----------



## Desertfalcon

Desert Fox said:


> @Desertfalcon @VCheng @Peter C
> 
> A interesting video i thought i should share with you guys:


You confuse me. Three posts ago I thanked you for what was a lucid, well written, rational post you made. Then you post this ding-bat and his bizarre argument that Elliot Rodger, a very mentally disturbed young man, is the prototype American male of today. He even states that Obama shares great similarity with Rodger, you know, a successful Harvard and Yale graduate, decent and honourable family man, community organizer, state legislator, United States Senator and 44th President of the United States...with a sad, probably bi-polar, deeply mentally disturbed young man who wound up killing six people before shooting himself in the head. Ya, they're just alike! 

Really, I voted against Mr. Obama twice so it's not like I am a fan of his or his party, but the comparison to Rodger or a wider comparison to the prototype new American male, is ridiculous. _Especially _in light of who we honor today in America. *This *is today's American male, the guys in my neighbourhood, my family, my countrymen...

List of post-Vietnam Medal of Honor recipients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of post-Vietnam Medal of Honor recipients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Distinguished Service Cross (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Distinguished Service Cross (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






















_Don't they know how self-centred, how narcissistic they are all supposed to be? They must have not gotten the memo._

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## Desert Fox

Desertfalcon said:


> You confuse me. Three posts ago I thanked you for what was a lucid, well written, rational post you made. Then you post this ding-bat and his bizarre argument that Elliot Rodger, a very mentally disturbed young man, is the prototype American male of today. He even states that Obama shares great similarity with Rodger, you know, a successful Harvard and Yale graduate, decent and honourable family man, community organizer, state legislator, United States Senator and 44th President of the United States...with a sad, probably bi-polar, deeply mentally disturbed young man who wound up killing six people before shooting himself in the head. Ya, they're just alike!
> 
> Really, I voted against Mr. Obama twice so it's not like I am a fan of his or his party, but the comparison to Rodger or a wider comparison to the prototype new American male, is ridiculous. _Especially _in light of who we honor today in America. *This *is today's American male, the guys in my neighbourhood, my family, my countrymen...
> 
> List of post-Vietnam Medal of Honor recipients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> List of post-Vietnam Medal of Honor recipients - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Distinguished Service Cross (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Distinguished Service Cross (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Don't they know how self-centred, how narcissistic they are all supposed to be? They must have not gotten the memo._



Of course, i don't agree with everything the guys said in the video, but he does make a good point that most American youth are concerned with trivial matters. Not all, but most.

Those guys from your neighborhood, all the best to them for their hard work and contribution towards the well being of others. They look like they were raised properly with manners and discipline, something which one cannot attribute to a great majority of young Americans nowadays with the sagging pants and full body tattoo culture with weird slang becoming popular amongst them.

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## liall

And US is still the best country in the world


mafiya said:


> Are 15 years allow to do that? Drink, smoke pot, makeout leading to sex?
> 
> If it doesn't seem Morally degrading to you than what standards are set by americans for morality?



sounds like fun time to me


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## Desertfalcon

Desert Fox said:


> Of course, i don't agree with everything the guys said in the video, but he does make a good point that most American youth are concerned with trivial matters. Not all, but most.
> 
> Those guys from your neighborhood, all the best to them for their hard work and contribution towards the well being of others.


The problem is you think American youth are mostly concerned with trivial matters. 1. You have no proof of that. It's purely your anecdotal judgement and one I think informed by bias. 2. It assumes that American youth are somehow...different from the rest of the world. Richer yes, and with different concerns and problems compared to the youth of many other countries for certain. American youth may not all be volunteers but most are concerned with things like getting a good education, a good job, taking care of their families, being a good friend. Those are hardly _trivial. _

World's most big-hearted nation: the United States

_Again, don't they know how Americans are only concerned with trivial matters?_

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## gambit

Desert Fox said:


> Of course, i don't agree with everything the guys said in the video, but he does make a good point that most American youth are concerned with trivial matters. Not all, but most.


Right...And most youths in other countries are so much more matured ?

But then again...I guess that when you live in a society where females are considered 2nd class citizens, political oppression is the norm, religious fanatics holds in governance, and said society produces so much corrupt leaders that despots are nearly guaranteed, that most of your youths would be soooooo much more 'matured' than their American counterparts, no ?

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## Dubious

Desert Fox said:


> Don't get me wrong, America isn't a bad place, and its a lot safer to live in America than in most countries of the world for the most part. And as someone who grew up in America for the most of my life i can attest to that fact. I had the opportunity to become successful in life in America, and for that there is nothing i can do that would be enough to repay my debt to the American nation.
> 
> People here have it wrong if they think i criticize America out of hatred or that i despise America. I care about this country and i refuse to live in a delusional fantasy like the rest who overlook this degeneracy and irresponsibility becoming rampant in our society. I opened this thread out of my concern for the future of this great nation because it matters to me. Everything i have posted on this thread highlights the major issues our society faces today that no generation of Americans before us has faced at such a massive scale and that alone is a reason for great concern to the rest of us, and for some reason our highly politicized/politically correct and hypersexualized media intentionally does not cover these major issues. Thus, as a responsible citizen i take it upon myself as my moral obligation to bring to the attention of as many people as possible these ground realities.
> 
> 
> @VCheng @Desertfalcon @KingMamba @Hazzy997
> 
> 
> *"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand.
> The only foundation for a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure, than they have it now, they may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting liberty."
> - John Adams, June 21, 1776*


Oh dont worry I didnt get you wrong...I have been there, got parts of my extended family and alot of family friends there...so it isnt a foreign land for me...And yes I agree it can be alot safer than many countries...

I criticize because some on this site who live in America openly criticize Pakistan but when the tables are turned they come to feed on you like zombies (delusional fantasy)! It is sickening how many feel it is a 1 way street and have the upper hand or are the only ones "entitled" to criticize!

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## genmirajborgza786

Akheilos said:


> Oh dont worry I didnt get you wrong...I have been there, got parts of my extended family and alot of family friends there...so it isnt a foreign land for me...And yes I agree it can be alot safer than many countries...
> 
> I criticize because some on this site who live in America openly criticize Pakistan but when the tables are turned they come to feed on you like zombies (delusional fantasy)! It is sickening how many feel it is a 1 way street and have the upper hand or are the only ones "entitled" to criticize!



first of all, it is but only the moral & ethical duty of every person/society with conscience to not only criticize but also "*condemn"* any country, which exhibit's the following characteristics, be it Pakistan or any other, & if you respect humanity, dignity & democratic principles, then it is also your duty to not only criticize it, but also "*condemn"* it.
1.labelling people as traitors/disbelievers _etc's ,_ just because one doesn't like the other persons views
2.commit gross minority right's violations in the name of blasphemy law
3.support Anti-democratic forces in the name of patriotism
4.oppress the voice of the media in the name patriotism/religious black mail

& secondly
No, there is no moral collapse in the western world, yes there is a problem with crime( but still much less then many other countries), but then again no place can be perfect completely, but one thing is for sure, the west with all its pros & cons is still *Trillions ! *times better then many other countries
at least in the west we have democracy ,respect for diversity & tolerance for different opinions, dignity of labour, freedom of expressions , freedom of media , a non-political military subservient to the civilian gov't , & secularism, & these are all the qualities of a morally upright society

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## Koovie

madokafc said:


> Still so many Pakistani, Arabs, Libyan, Syrian everyone of you who has been called pious Hajj and ummah* want to stay and living in USA* and getting parts in this moral decadent society



Thats the funniest fact of this thread


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## AUz

America has its own share of social problems....but it is still wayyyyyy better than Pakistan, India and others.

Atleast Americans research and discuss their social problems...Pakistanis won't even know what is actually happening in their country cuz there is no record or authentic social research..lol

PS, the OP is bullshit. Some idiot Christian crying nutcase.

America is doing fine. Pakistanis must worry for Pakistan first, which is falling apart.

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## VCheng

genmirajborgza786 said:


> first of all, it is but only the moral & ethical duty of every person/society with conscience to not only criticize but also "*condemn"* any country, which exhibit's the following characteristics, be it Pakistan or any other, & if you respect humanity, dignity & democratic principles, then it is also your duty to not only criticize it, but also "*condemn"* it.
> 1.labelling people as traitors/disbelievers _etc's ,_ just because one doesn't like the other persons views
> 2.commit gross minority right's violations in the name of blasphemy law
> 3.support Anti-democratic forces in the name of patriotism
> 4.oppress the voice of the media in the name patriotism/religious black mail
> 
> & secondly
> No, there is no moral collapse in the western world, yes there is a problem with crime( but still much less then then many other countries), but then again no place can be perfect completely, but one thing is for sure, the west with all its pros & cons is still *Trillions ! *times better then many other countries
> at least in the west we have *democracy ,respect for diversity & tolerance for different opinions, dignity of labour, freedom of expressions , freedom of media , a non-political military subservient to the civilian gov't , & secularism, & these are all the qualities of a morally upright society*



Yes, but there is so much happiness and "sex", it must be condemned by those not getting any!

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## genmirajborgza786

VCheng said:


> Yes, but there is so much happiness and "sex", it must be condemned by those not getting any!


cheng bhai, an uncle of mine from Karachi had once said to me, the day Pakistan becomes a free society more then 75% of the bomb blasts, fanatics & other types of schizophrenic's would cool down, I mean a country with a vast majority of populations under the age of 30/40 years , literally has no recreations ! other then either hard labour, religious schools, family politics or Zaid Hamids ! I mean where will all those hyper energies go ? at the age when the young should be busy with his/her school/collage part time jobs, , dates, our youths spend most of their time in PTI jalsas !, zaid Hamid's enlighten lectors !,hyper religious sermons , what else can we expect from such a dangerous combinations of influences !

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## IND151

Desert Fox said:


> *American Middle school teacher provides ‘full-contact’ lap dance in front of class for birthday boy*
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *Prosecutors in Houston, Texas charged a middle school teacher because she gave a full-on lap dance to a boy for his birthday in front of an entire class of no-doubt impressed preteens.*
> 
> The teacher, Felicia Smith, staged the lap dance in her classroom at Stovall Middle School on February 26, reports local CBS affiliate KHOU.
> 
> *When police interviewed the unnamed student, he said Smith, 42, had seductively placed a school chair in front of the classroom after the tardy bell rang. Music began to play – from some undisclosed source – and several students in the class began yelling raucously that the birthday boy should sit down in the chair.*
> 
> Once the kid sat down, the forty something teacher gave him what was perhaps his first full-contact lap dance.* According to a police report, Smith did the thing where she turned around and swiveled her butt on the middle school student. She rubbed her hands all over his body. She also got down on her knees and stuck her head between the boy’s legs.*
> 
> *It’s not clear if the kid enjoyed the lap dance. However, he admitted that he did slap Smith’s butt a couple times.*
> 
> The incident lasted a little over three-and-a-half minutes — presumably the duration of the song that was playing. It’s not clear which song was chosen for the special occasion.
> 
> *At the end of the lap dance, Smith hugged the boy and told him, “I love you, baby. Happy birthday,”* according to KHOU.
> 
> *When police questioned Smith, she said she provided the lap dance at the urging of students in the class.* She noted that she almost fell down a few times while performing the acrobatics required of the lap dance.
> 
> Somebody – it’s not clear who – apparently filmed the spectacle. The Harris County district attorney and the Aldine, Texas police department both have copies of the video.
> 
> Smith faces a single criminal charge: improper relationship with student. She is free on a $30,000 bond.
> 
> A statement released by the local school district explained that Smith “was removed from the campus during the investigation and has not returned.”
> 
> It’s not clear if she is still being paid while her criminal case meanders through the court system.
> Middle school teacher provides ‘full-contact’ lap dance in front of class for birthday boy - Yahoo News



Disgusting, more disgusting when we consider that she is teacher.

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## Developereo

VCheng said:


> Yes, but there is so much happiness and "sex", it must be condemned by those not getting any!



Six year old girls dressed up like whores is neither "happy" nor "sexy" -- except to a pedophile.

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## VCheng

genmirajborgza786 said:


> cheng bhai, a uncle of mine from Karachi had once said to me, the day Pakistan becomes a free society more then 75% of the bomb blasts, fanatics & other types of schizophrenic's would cool down, I mean a country with a vast majority of populations under the age of 30/40 years , literally has no recreations ! other then either hard labour, religious schools, family politics or Zaid Hamids ! I mean where will all those hyper energies go ? at the age when the young should be busy with his/her school/collage part time jobs, , dates, our youths spend most of their time in PTI jalsas !, zaid Hamid's enlighten lectors !,hyper religious sermons , what else can we expect from such a dangerous combinations of influences !



Agreed. And look at how the so-called "educated" people worry more about what six year old girls do half way across the world when they do this to their own women. What does that say about where the actual moral collapse is in reality?
========================================================================

Honour killing: Woman killed outside Lahore High Court – The Express Tribune

*LAHORE: A woman was killed by her brothers on Tuesday outside the Lahore High Court (LHC) over marrying the person of her choice, Express News reported.*

Her brothers pelted bricks on her, leaving her with serious head injuries which led to her death.

The victim had come to the high court from Faisalabad to attend a hearing of a case.

The suspects managed to flee after the incident. Police have taken the victim’s body into custody and further investigations are underway.


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## Hamartia Antidote

Desert Fox said:


> @Desertfalcon @VCheng @Peter C
> 
> A interesting video i thought i should share with you guys:



I'll comment on this later as I have to run but a quick feedback.
I think every generation looks at the current situation and feels things are going down the toilet.
I was born in the '60s and my mother was horrified at all the murders, race-riots, wars, drugged out hippie-freelove-culture, Charles Manson, JFK/RFK/MLK assassinations, etc. She thought for sure society was ending.

It didn't.

Here's a song from a 1963 movie that somehow comes to my mind.

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## VCheng

Peter C said:


> I'll comment on this later as I have to run but a quick feedback.
> I think every generation looks at the current situation and feels things are going down the toilet.
> I was born in the '60s and my mother was horrified at all the murders, race-riots, wars, drugged out hippie-freelove-culture, Charles Manson, JFK/RFK/MLB assassinations, etc. She thought for sure society was ending.
> 
> It didn't.
> 
> Here's a song that somehow comes to my mind.



The sixties were all about sex, drugs and rock and roll. And much dissent in campuses around the country. And look at the trajectory after all that. USA flourished on all that, and it will do the same in the present circumstances too. Without a doubt.

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## Developereo

VCheng said:


> Agreed. And look at how the so-called "educated" people worry more about what six year old girls do half way across the world when they do this to their own women. What does that say about where the actual moral collapse is in reality?



It says that you are an intellectually bankrupt person who cannot debate a subject.

When any of Pakistan's problems are listed here, we debate them - and you are the first to tell everyone that "truth must be told".

Yet, when anything about US is discussed you whine like a little baby and throw sanctimonious tantrums.

There are many Pakistani-Americans and Indian-Americans and others who have the intellectual honesty to accept that all societies have their issues. *YOU* are not one of them

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## Marshmallow

VCheng said:


> Yes, but there is so much happiness and "sex", it must be *condemned by those not getting any!*


its not about that...its like you can still live in the US or anywhere in the West without imposing your ways on people there yet not leaving your own values and culture!



VCheng said:


> Agreed. And look at how the so-called "educated" people worry more about what six year old girls do half way across the world when they do this to their own women. What does that say about where the actual moral collapse is in reality?
> ========================================================================
> 
> Honour killing: Woman killed outside Lahore High Court – The Express Tribune
> 
> *LAHORE: A woman was killed by her brothers on Tuesday outside the Lahore High Court (LHC) over marrying the person of her choice, Express News reported.*
> 
> Her brothers pelted bricks on her, leaving her with serious head injuries which led to her death.
> 
> The victim had come to the high court from Faisalabad to attend a hearing of a case.
> 
> The suspects managed to flee after the incident. Police have taken the victim’s body into custody and further investigations are underway.


the six year old issue was highly condemnable....we do talk against it day and night here in Pak....whose denying it? ..but have a little heart and patience when similar things from elsewhere are discussed in the same manner...neither US is a Paradise nor Pakistan!

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## Dubious

genmirajborgza786 said:


> first of all, it is but only the moral & ethical duty of every person/society with conscience to not only criticize but also "*condemn"* any country, which exhibit's the following characteristics, be it Pakistan or any other, & if you respect humanity, dignity & democratic principles, then it is also your duty to not only criticize it, but also "*condemn"* it.
> 1.labelling people as traitors/disbelievers _etc's ,_ just because one doesn't like the other persons views
> 2.commit gross minority right's violations in the name of blasphemy law
> 3.support Anti-democratic forces in the name of patriotism
> 4.oppress the voice of the media in the name patriotism/religious black mail
> 
> & secondly
> No, there is no moral collapse in the western world, yes there is a problem with crime( but still much less then many other countries), but then again no place can be perfect completely, but one thing is for sure, the west with all its pros & cons is still *Trillions ! *times better then many other countries
> at least in the west we have democracy ,respect for diversity & tolerance for different opinions, dignity of labour, freedom of expressions , freedom of media , a non-political military subservient to the civilian gov't , & secularism, & these are all the qualities of a morally upright society




Brother may I wake you up by telling you this thread is for America not for you to derail so you can "condemn" and "criticize" again! Kindly stick to the topic and "condemn" and "criticize" the topic at hand!

As for the 2nd half of your post:

No moral collapse plus I am better than you is again itself a manifestation of moral collapse (incapability to see the bad and label it bad but turn a blind eye)

Cheers!

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## Marshmallow

Developereo said:


> Ignore the drama queens.
> 
> Some people here have a tendency to act precious when anything negative is said about their country. This despite the fact that there are many negative aspects of other countries and societies debated here all the time.
> 
> Now, coming to the article itself, I have three comments:
> 
> - the title is needlessly provocative; there is no imminent "collapse" although many conservatives would concur that morality has declined. The comparison isn't with the rest of the world, but with one's ideals. Each person will have different ideals and they may not agree with the author's ideals.
> 
> - the article is weighted a bit too much towards religiosity and, particularly, Christianity. I got a chuckle out of *#99* One survey conducted a while back found that 52 percent of all American Christians believe that “at least some non-Christian faiths can lead to eternal life”.
> 
> - the comments from some people about visa lines misses the point. People also form long lines to get a visa to Middle Eastern countries. Does that mean that those countries are beacons of human rights? People go where they can earn more money.
> 
> Many south Asian parents in the West would admit their apprehensions about kids (especially girls) growing up too fast in the West. This concern is shared by conservatives in the West also. Willam Bennet, an American conservative, has written about the "coarsening" of American culture.
> 
> So, bottom line, there are many people who are concerned about the trend towards what they view as moral decline, and that trend is led by the global media, which is dominated by American media.
> 
> It is legitimate to debate this issue without acting like a drama queen.


this the the best comment on the topic being discussed here.... ....you summed it up well! thanks!

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## Developereo

Akheilos said:


> Oh dont worry I didnt get you wrong...I have been there, got parts of my extended family and alot of family friends there...so it isnt a foreign land for me...And yes I agree it can be alot safer than many countries...
> 
> I criticize because some on this site who live in America openly criticize Pakistan but when the tables are turned they come to feed on you like zombies (delusional fantasy)! It is sickening how many feel it is a 1 way street and have the upper hand or are the only ones "entitled" to criticize!



Did you read the book or see the movie *The Great Gatsby*?

Gatsby is a tragic hero who was born poor and later became rich. yet all his effort is aimed at one thing: to leave his past behind and to seek validation and acceptance amongst the rich, to be accepted as one of them. He overdoes everything: the lavish parties, the fanfare, the silk shirts.

Yet, with all the silk shirts and all the parties, he can't erase his past. He can't shut off the little voice in his head which tells him he is still a wretched, poor little boy who is not good enough for the rich girl he loves.

There are many Gatsby's amongst us who constantly seek to prove to everyone -- and most of all to themselves -- that they have left their past -- what they consider a wretched misfortune of birth to be born brown and Pakistani.

Once you understand what's going on, you can't be angry at them They deserve our pity.

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## Marshmallow

Developereo said:


> Did you read the book or see the movie *The Great Gatsby*?
> 
> Gatsby is a tragic hero who was born poor and later became rich. yet all his effort is aimed at one thing: to leave his past behind and to seek validation and acceptance amongst the rich, to be accepted as one of them. He overdoes everything: the lavish parties, the fanfare, the silk shirts.
> 
> Yet, with all the silk shirts and all the parties, he can't erase his past. He can't shut off the little voice in his head which tells him he is still a wretched, poor little boy who is not good enough for the rich.
> 
> There are many Gatsby's amongst us who constantly seek to prove to everyone -- and most of all to themselves -- that they have left their past -- what they consider a wretched
> 
> Once you understand what's going on, you can't be angry at them They deserve our pity.


im gunna watch that movie for sure!

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## Developereo

Marshmallow said:


> im gunna watch that movie for sure!



I like the Robert Redford/Mia Farrow version.

I haven't watched the new (Leo Di Caprio?) version, so I can't compare or say if it was true to the book or not.

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## Dubious

Developereo said:


> Did you read the book or see the movie *The Great Gatsby*?
> 
> Gatsby is a tragic hero who was born poor and later became rich. yet all his effort is aimed at one thing: to leave his past behind and to seek validation and acceptance amongst the rich, to be accepted as one of them. He overdoes everything: the lavish parties, the fanfare, the silk shirts.
> 
> Yet, with all the silk shirts and all the parties, he can't erase his past. He can't shut off the little voice in his head which tells him he is still a wretched, poor little boy who is not good enough for the rich girl he loves.
> 
> There are many Gatsby's amongst us who constantly seek to prove to everyone -- and most of all to themselves -- that they have left their past -- what they consider a wretched misfortune of birth to be born brown and Pakistani.
> 
> Once you understand what's going on, you can't be angry at them They deserve our pity.


I watched the movie...was a good piece


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## Marshmallow

Developereo said:


> I like the* Robert Redford/Mia Farrow *version.
> 
> I haven't watched the new (Leo Di Caprio?) version, so I can't compare or say if it was true to the book or not.


obviously i wouldnt like to watch movies of the times when only Aliens existed and used Alien lingo haha kidding.... i would rather watch of Leonardo's hes a super actor! very intense! you should watch his movies,you would like it....no kidding...

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## Dubious

Developereo said:


> There are many Gatsby's amongst us who constantly seek to prove to everyone -- and most of all to themselves -- that they have left their past -- what they consider a wretched misfortune of birth to be born brown and Pakistani.
> 
> Once you understand what's going on, you can't be angry at them They deserve our pity.


I however, do love the remarkable similarity you derived to that movie!!!



VCheng said:


> Agreed. And look at how the so-called "educated" people worry more about what six year old girls do half way across the world when they do this to their own women. What does that say about where the actual moral collapse is in reality?
> ========================================================================
> 
> Honour killing: Woman killed outside Lahore High Court – The Express Tribune
> 
> *LAHORE: A woman was killed by her brothers on Tuesday outside the Lahore High Court (LHC) over marrying the person of her choice, Express News reported.*
> 
> Her brothers pelted bricks on her, leaving her with serious head injuries which led to her death.
> 
> The victim had come to the high court from Faisalabad to attend a hearing of a case.
> 
> The suspects managed to flee after the incident. Police have taken the victim’s body into custody and further investigations are underway.


Maybe if you bothered going to the thread you would have seen Pakistanis condemning the act but then again you are vcheng the man who will even use his last breath against Pakistan...reported for derailing...as the above post has nothing to do with the thread and there is already a separate thread for you to shed your tears!

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## VCheng

Isn't it funny how Western society, for all the claimed corruption, still is doing far better than the morally upright brigades? 

PS: Oh forget the arguments, let's start with personal attacks, all together now, as a team!

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## Hyperion

Dude, you need to compile a list of the crap that our society has to offer as well. Trust you me, the you'll have a never ending list at your hands!

@Desert Fox


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## Developereo

VCheng said:


> PS: Oh forget the arguments, let's start with personal attacks, all together now, as a team!



Says the guy who called the OP a pig early on.



Hyperion said:


> Dude, you need to compile a list of the crap that our society has to offer as well. Trust you me, the you'll have a never ending list at your hands!
> 
> @Desert Fox



We have plenty of threads on that.

Must we be politically correct and bring Pakistan into every single thread, just to placate the drama queens?

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Isn't it funny how Western society, for all the claimed corruption, still is doing far better than the morally upright brigades?
> 
> PS: Oh forget the arguments, let's start with personal attacks, all together now, as a team!


How about you concentrate on at least acknowledging some form of moral degradation...

We acknowledge and even say outright and condemn what is wrong in Pakistan while you bitch about everything but seem hurt as hell when the tables are turned...Man how old are you 12 or a good 70? Both ages when even logic fails and not to forget the 1 eye blind scenario:

All in East is bad...oh wait lets adjust all associated with my background is bad coz now I earn in US$$ so I have to kiss the *** and sing praises day and night for those who give them to me?! That itself is soo damn wrong!


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## Chronos

Developereo said:


> Says the guy who called the OP a pig early on.
> 
> 
> 
> We have plenty of threads on that.
> 
> Must we be politically correct and bring Pakistan into every single thread, just to placate the drama queens?



I pointed this out earlier.

What's better India or New Zealand.

If you say India, jump off a cliff


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## Hyperion

I know very well that we have enough threads on that...... that was precisely the point......... why group a whole nation (a civilization here) and bash it on the basis of our superior norms? Utterly useless, been done over and over.

Btw, who's the drama queen here..... minus the usual suspect? 



Developereo said:


> Says the guy who called the OP a pig early on.
> 
> 
> 
> We have plenty of threads on that.
> 
> Must we be politically correct and bring Pakistan into every single thread, just to placate the drama queens?

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## Developereo

Ravi Nair said:


> I pointed this out earlier.
> 
> What's better India or New Zealand.
> 
> If you say India, jump off a cliff



Who says it's a question of better or worse?

When New Zealanders comment on social issues in New Zealand, do they give a damn what happens in India?

When will you feel secure enough as a proper New Zealander to debate social issues within New Zealand without reference to your ethnicity as an Indian?

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Isn't it funny how Western society, for all the claimed corruption, still is doing far better than the morally upright brigades?
> 
> PS: Oh forget the arguments, let's start with personal attacks, all together now, as a team!


How about you concentrate on at least acknowledging some form of moral degradation...

We acknowledge and even say outright and condemn what is wrong in Pakistan while you bitch about everything but seem hurt as hell when the tables are turned...Man how old are you 12 or a good 70? Both ages when even logic fails and not to forget the 1 eye blind scenario:

All in East is bad...oh wait lets adjust all associated with my background is bad coz now I earn in US$$ so I have to kiss the *** and sing praises day and night for those who give them to me?! That itself is soo damn wrong!


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## Developereo

Hyperion said:


> I know very well that we have enough threads on that...... that was precisely the point......... why group a whole nation (a civilization here) and bash it on the basis of our superior norms? Utterly useless, been done over and over.



I already pointed out that the headline was needlessly provocative and extreme. Presumably this is the headline chosen by the writer who seems to be an American Christian. It is his claim and, while most of us agree it is a bit extreme, he is entitled to his opinion,

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## Chronos

Developereo said:


> Who says it's a question of better or worse?
> 
> When New Zealanders comment on social issues in New Zealand, do they give a damn what happens in India?
> 
> When will you feel secure enough as a proper New Zealander to debate social issues within New Zealand without reference to your ethnicity as an Indian?



When New Zealand was about to legalise gay marriage, all this arguments about Society breakdown, the dilution of family, the end of New Zealand society as we know it....

Nothing happened. No god's wrath. No natural calamity. 

The only major problems New Zealand has is a high proportion of it's population is incarcerated (Maori Males). Binge drinking, etc.

The reason I discuss more about International new rather than New Zealand news, is because New Zealand is boring. Nothing major happens here.


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## VCheng

Okay, let us step back and look at the basic definition of morality:

*The term “morality” can be used to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or, some other group, such as a religion, or accepted by an individual for her own behavior or, to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.
*
So morality if for every society to establish for itself, by definition. What works for one society and is acceptable for its members, is not for others to judge. The only place where such judgments might become necessary are where interactions between societies is needed, more so in the ever-connected present day world. Even then, they should be limited to any concern related to such interactions, not to the society overall.

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## Dubious

@Developereo @Hyperion Just found this extremely befitting quote:

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## VCheng

*"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we personally dislike."* - Oscar Wilde

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## Developereo

Akheilos said:


> @Developereo @Hyperion Just found this extremely befitting quote:



Well, let's just be clear here.

Not everything written in the OP is objectively "wrong". It is merely the author's opinion.

While most people would agree that hypersexualization of preteens is wrong, the same cannot be said of other factors in the OP. Not everyone would agree that less religiosity or gay rights are a sign of moral decline. Those issues are subjective.

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> *"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we personally dislike."* - Oscar Wilde


How about quoting people who actually study the field:

*The Definition of Morality*
_First published Wed Apr 17, 2002; substantive revision Mon Mar 14, 2011_
The term “morality” can be used either


descriptively to refer to some codes of conduct put forward by a society or,
some other group, such as a religion, or
accepted by an individual for her own behavior or

normatively to refer to a code of conduct that, given specified conditions, would be put forward by all rational persons.

The Definition of Morality (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)


Morals and Ethics


A. *Descriptive Ethics *orMorals: a study of human behavior as a consequence of beliefs about what is right or wrong, or good or bad, insofar as that behavior is useful or effective. In a sense, morals is the study of what is thought to be right and what is generally done by a group, society, or a culture. In general, morals correspond to what actually is done in a society.


1. Morals is best studied as psychology, sociology, or anthropology. Different societies have different moral codes.



2. Morals is a descriptive science; it seeks to establish "what is true" in a society or group.





3. Often morals are considered to be the shared ideals of a group, irrespective of whether they are practiced.





4. In the sense of descriptive ethics or morals, different persons, groups, and societies have different moral standards. This observation is seen as true by all sides.







a. We would commit the Case Study: Moral Rules and Ethical Standards.







c. This confusion between descriptive and prescriptive ethics occurs quite often by persons untrained in philosophical analysis. Isaac Asimov got it right when he wrote, "Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right."

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## Developereo

Ravi Nair said:


> The only major problems New Zealand has is a high proportion of it's population is incarcerated (Maori Males). Binge drinking, etc..



Fair enough and, when people discuss those issues, they are focused on New Zealand.

To reiterate my earlier point, would you not agree that many south Asian parents in New Zealand would be apprehensive about the hypersexualization of their kids? Just as other white, Maori, etc. New Zealanders might be? It doesn't negate the fact that New Zealand is superior to south Asia in many other ways, and no one is going to run back to India/Pakistan, but the issue remains nonetheless.

Would south Asian parents discuss those issues with other New Zealanders, or would they feel they don't have a right to, because of what happens back in India/Pakistan?

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## Dubious

Developereo said:


> Well, let's just be clear here.
> 
> Not everything written in the OP is objectively "wrong". It is merely the author's opinion.
> 
> While most people would agree that hypersexualization of preteens is wrong, the same cannot be said of other factors in the OP. Not everyone would agree that less religiosity or gay rights are a sign of moral decline. Those issues are subjective.


I am very clear about what is in OP...all the things are present in the Western society....however many are currently given the status of being acceptable hence the title of the article doesnt do it justice....

Like the definitions of moral which I have quoted from some websites in post 126:

Morals differ from society to society (people, environment and the idea all form morals)

However, post 123 was a wake up call


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## VCheng

If morals differ from society to society, then how can one be worried about or pass judgement on another?

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## Jungibaaz

Desert Fox said:


> @Aeronaut @Jungibaaz What's with the lines over the text of my post??



I've removed them, if you see the little row of options for editing text when you post.
After the 'Underline' option there's the one that puts a line through your text, looks like this: S

You had that selected.


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## jandk

VCheng said:


> If morals differ from society to society, then how can one be worried about or pass judgement on another?



Are you able to pass judgment on Nazi society?

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## Chronos

Developereo said:


> Fair enough and, when people discuss those issues, they are focused on New Zealand.
> 
> To reiterate my earlier point, would you not agree that many south Asian parents in New Zealand would be apprehensive about the hypersexualization of their kids? Just as other white, Maori, etc. New Zealanders might be? It doesn't negate the fact that New Zealand is superior to south Asia in many other ways, and no one is going to run back to India/Pakistan, but the issue remains nonetheless.
> 
> Would south Asian parents discuss those issues with other New Zealanders, or would they feel they don't have a right to, because of what happens back in India/Pakistan?



To keep it simple,

Yes they do. Because the parents feel in New Zealand that hyper-sexualization is part of the process where Kids grow up to be too fast.

They worry that instead of being in beauty contests, they should be having a child hood. Play outside, do stupid things, be a child.

The majority of parents I would venture will agree with your view point.

I can only speak from reading discussions on this in New Zealand though.

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> If morals differ from society to society, then how can one be worried about or pass judgement on another?


Morals differ but the same basic remains....

only lunatics say yes murdering is fine coz it makes you feels strong or whatever crap!

Only lunatics justify rape


Other things like how small can a skirt get before you call it small or how much skin is enough differs! And here I thought you were intelligent

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## Developereo

Ravi Nair said:


> The majority of parents I would venture will agree with your view point.



That's my point. It is an issue that resonates with many people around the world and it needs to be discussed without people getting all worked up.

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## VCheng

jandk said:


> Are you able to pass judgment on Nazi society?



There was no Nazi society. There was a German society that elected the Nazis into power, yes.


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## jandk

VCheng said:


> There was no Nazi society. There was a German society that elected the Nazis into power, yes.



Sementics. A german society that elected the Nazis into power and hence turned into a distinctive kind of society, which can be refered to as Nazi society. The point still stands. If you're able to pass judgment without hesitation on this society, you know that there are some basic culture independent moral principles.

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## halka_kutta

I hope shithole South Asia moral also collapses and it can develop it self like USA.

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## VCheng

jandk said:


> Sementics. A german society that elected the Nazis into power and hence turned into a distinctive kind of society, which can be refered to as Nazi society. The point still stands. If you're able to pass judgment without hesitation on this society, you know that there are some basic culture independent moral principles.



And if I say that I do not judge that period in German society's history either, then what happens to your argument?


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## jandk

VCheng said:


> And if I say that I do not judge that period in German society's history either, then what happens to your argument?



Then I start having doubts about your mental condition

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## SQ8

At least in the United States, No one asks you for a bribe to release a payment cheque that is LEGALLY and RIGHTFULLY yours. Here, no government contract will pay you out unless you pay the man supposed to hand you the cheque a percentage fee.

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## VCheng

jandk said:


> Then I start having doubts about your mental condition



Just because you disagree with my point of view?

What happened in Nazi Germany is not a problem of morality, but of politics, nothing else. Persecution of minorities, whether Jews in Germany, or Ahmadis in Pakistan, or Nagas in India, are similar examples.



Oscar said:


> At least in the United States, No one asks you for a bribe to release a payment cheque that is LEGALLY and RIGHTFULLY yours. Here, no government contract will pay you out unless you pay the man supposed to hand you the cheque a percentage fee.



Not only that, procedures of all public transactions are clearly published, and if you follow them, all work gets done without any "George Washington waley pahiye". Need a passport renewed? You can do it online if you meet the requirements. Done.

If that is the case, does it really matter what the length of anyone's skirt is?

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## jandk

VCheng said:


> Just because you disagree with my point of view?
> 
> What happened in Nazi Germany is not a problem of morality, but of politics, nothing else. Persecution of minorities, whether Jews in Germany, or Ahmadis in Pakistan, or Nagas in India, are similar examples.
> 
> 
> 
> Not only that, procedures of all public transactions are clearly published, and if you follow them, all work gets done without any "George Washington waley pahiye". Need a passport renewed? You can do it online if you meet the requirements. Done.
> 
> If that is the case, does it really matter what the length of anyone's skirt is?



Dude of course it is a problem of morality. It is morality that tells you that persecution of minorities is wrong.


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## VCheng

jandk said:


> Dude of course it is a problem of morality. It is morality that tells you that persecution of minorities is wrong.



No, it is a problem of equal and fair treatment under the law for all citizens, not of morality.


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## jandk

VCheng said:


> No, it is a problem of equal and fair treatment under the law for all citizens, not of morality.



Yes and where did you get the idea that equal treatment for all citizens is a lofty ideal to aspire to? Please stop being thick.


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## Developereo

VCheng said:


> There was no Nazi society. There was a German society that elected the Nazis into power, yes.



Do you not say that elected officials are a reflection of the society that elected them?

We certainly hear you say that about Pakistan a lot.

Should we now expect one of your selective intellectual backflips?


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## SrNair

There freedom provides a lot of option for Americans .Its all about a person's mentality.If one want a full fledged carrier in an academic field he/her will get world's best opportunities ,facilities and others in US.Similar in any other field like sports ,science etc.
Its all about a persons aptitude.

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## VCheng

jandk said:


> Yes and where did you get the idea that equal treatment for all citizens is a lofty ideal to aspire to? Please stop being thick.



No, pray tell us where do you think the idea of legal equality comes from.



Accord said:


> America is going to collapse soon, all the idiot Americans who cant point their own country on the map boozing, partying, porning have destroyed the traditional family structure.



Yes, the collapse is scheduled two weeks from next Thursday. It will be a big party!


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## jandk

VCheng said:


> No, pray tell us where do you think the idea of legal equality comes from.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the collapse is scheduled two weeks from next Thursday. It will be a big party!



Dude


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## VCheng

sreekumar said:


> There freedom provides a lot of option for Americans .Its all about a person's mentality.If one want a full fledged carrier in an academic field he/her will get world's best opportunities ,facilities and others in US.Similar in any other field like sports ,science etc.
> Its all about a persons aptitude.



Those are all the fruits of a fair social system that creates and encourages everyone to work hard to achieve their best potential. It may not be perfect, but it works well for the vast majority.

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## MarkusS

Accord said:


> America is going to collapse soon, all the idiot Americans who cant point their own country on the map boozing, partying, porning have destroyed the traditional family structure.



Do,you think they will fall so low that they reach your current level?


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## Rafi

VCheng said:


> Those are all the fruits of a fair social system that creates and encourages everyone to work hard to achieve their best potential. It may not be perfect, but it works well for the vast majority.



Except if your African American, then you are much more likely to be in prison, or dead before you hit 30.


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## VCheng

Rafi said:


> Except if your African American, then you are much more likely to be in prison, or dead before you hit 30.



Like I said, best potential. Whatever it might be!

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## Rafi

VCheng said:


> Like I said, best potential. Whatever it might be!



Racist much?

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## MarkusS

Rafi said:


> Except if your African American, then you are much more likely to be in prison, or dead before you hit 30.



Evryone is responsible for himself. I deeply believe in someones own responsibility. If you are african american (what is tjis anyway?) you have evry possiblity to become what you want. The current boss of NASA is african american.

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## Rafi

MarkusS said:


> Evryone is responsible for himself. I deeply believe in someones own responsibility. If you are african american (what is tjis anyway?) you have evry possiblity to become what you want. The current boss of NASA is african american.



Yes - but the statistics for American of African origin are shocking.


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah, *i know quite a lot of guys who boast and brag about how they don't need gf's or that they don't want to get married since they have girls as "friends with benefits" with whom they can hook up at any moment.
> 
> A very sick society indeed.* Its very tragic because most of these young people have potential and they could be doing something constructive for society rather than getting drunk or high and screwing a different person every other night and then getting pregnant or acquiring a STD and ruining their own future.



You think it is sick because you are looking at it through your personal shaded lenses. I have two friends male and female who have the same arrangement, they are atheists though and see nothing wrong with. Quite frankly neither do I, two consenting adults doing their own thing in the confines of their homes how can it bother you? More importantly can it hurt you or anyone else in anyway? No right so then why does it matter? 

It shouldn't, see I agree with you when you say the early age sexual awakening of children is an issue but I do not think we have to regulate what adults do in their homes. 

We have other issues like poverty, unemployment, health care, immigration reform, and loss of benefits to returning veterans we have to deal with yet here we are talking about what people do in the bedroom. Not just you either, a lot of Republican politicians need to get their priorities straight as well.

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## SrNair

VCheng said:


> Those are all the fruits of a fair social system that creates and encourages everyone to work hard to achieve their best potential. It may not be perfect, but it works well for the vast majority.



I dont like US and it policies .But when it comes to good life style and vast opportunities US will outclass all others.
More important fact about the US is that a person can work with it full potential without the cheating of their superiors or collegues .And US will provide maximum facilities for anything we paid for.
Expense is not a problem if you get maximum advantage.

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## VCheng

sreekumar said:


> I dont like US and it policies .But when it comes to good life style and vast opportunities US will outclass all others.
> More important fact about the US is that a person can work with it full potential without the cheating of their superiors or collegues .And US will provide maximum facilities for anything we paid for.
> Expense is not a problem if you get maximum advantage.



That a person can work within his/her full potential without the cheating speaks of a fair and just society overall, not one in any sort of imminent collapse.

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## MarkusS

Rafi said:


> Yes - but the statistics for American of African origin are shocking.



Well it should shock african americans, since all others do quite fine. Europeans, asians, latinos do much better in most aspects. You cant blame others for your own failure.

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## VCheng

MarkusS said:


> Well it should shock african americans, since all others do quite fine. Europeans, asians, latinos do much better in most aspects. You cant blame others for your own failure.



Part of the reason is that African-American leaders find it useful for themselves to keep their constituency in a deep sense of aggrievement based on events in the past ago while the world passes them by. Many will see the parallels between this strategy and in certain other countries as well.

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## Desertfalcon

VCheng said:


> Part of the reason is that African-American leaders find it useful for themselves to keep their constituency in a deep sense of aggrievement based on events in the past ago while the world passes them by. Many will see the parallels between this strategy and in certain other countries as well.


There is that. It is a complicated issue. There is certainly more work to be done in providing better k-12 education and more opportunity for African-Americans but there is one clear reason why blacks, particularly black males, struggle to a greater degree than others, in achieving the "American dream" and it has little to do with racism. That reason is the collapse of the African-American family. A black American male is more likely to be born out of wedlock and with no father or father figure present while growing up, than any other American ethnic group. That family decay is present among whites, but it is most pronounced among African Americans. Of course even in those cases, the "American dream" can be achieved for those that stay away from gangs and violence. For those who study hard and have goals, even if their father was not there for them, kinda' like this African-American...

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## VCheng

Desertfalcon said:


> There is that. It is a complicated issue. There is certainly more work to be done in providing better k-12 education and more opportunity for African-Americans but there is one clear reason why blacks, particularly black males, struggle to a greater degree than others, in achieving the "American dream" and it has little to do with racism. That reason is the collapse of the African-American family. A black American male is more likely to be born out of wedlock and with no father or father figure present while growing up, than any other American ethnic group. That family decay is present among whites, but it is most pronounced among African Americans. Of course even in those cases, the "American dream" can be achieved for those that stay away from gangs and violence. For those who study hard and have goals, even if their father was not there for them, kinda' like this African-American...



*"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible, who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time, who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer."* President Obama.

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## Desert Fox

gambit said:


> Right...And most youths in other countries are so much more matured ?
> 
> But then again...I guess that when you live in a society where females are considered 2nd class citizens, political oppression is the norm, religious fanatics holds in governance, and said society produces so much corrupt leaders that despots are nearly guaranteed, that most of your youths would be soooooo much more 'matured' than their American counterparts, no ?


I agree with everything you said, except that this thread isn't about the country you are talking about (which ever country it is).


Thank you, come again!

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## Audio

Desert Fox said:


> Having fun is acceptable. However what you are justifying in that video cannot in any way be considered "fun" or "medically beneficial". For one, those are all underage kids smoking and drinking alcohol. Not only are they putting their own lives at danger but also the lives of others. These same kids under the influence get into car accidents injuring or killing themselves and others as well.
> 
> Secondly, making out and hooking up with random strangers and that too while under the influence puts the person at risk of acquiring various STD's. And the person who already has STD will be spreading it amongst those who don't have it. I have had the misfortune of knowing a few people who have acquired mono through shared drinking and making out with complete strangers at high school and college parties.
> 
> That behavior in that video can in no way be considered "fun" and "medically beneficial". Rather, that is purely irresponsible behavior which has become very common amongst American teenagers! *And these are the people who are supposed to inherit the American nation from their predecessors and expand upon (more like leave neglected) the hard labor of the older generations?? *
> 
> George Washington and the founding fathers of America as well as Abraham Lincoln would shoot themselves if they were to see the state of their nation today. These men struggled with their lives hanging in the balance for the sake of this Nation, and to see that it all leads to this is very disappointing and heart breaking indeed.



It's kids, term "irresponsible" should be synonimous with kids. And ya, i'm sure every teen has STD. 

Pakistani kids would be the same if there wasn't such a weight of society and it's rules over them. 



> can in no way be considered "fun"



You have no right to judge on what other people consider as fun. You have your fun in glorifying Rommel, some have theirs with relaxing over a weekend party.

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## Desert Fox

Desertfalcon said:


> There is that. It is a complicated issue. There is certainly more work to be done in providing better k-12 education and more opportunity for African-Americans but there is one clear reason why blacks, particularly black males, struggle to a greater degree than others, in achieving the "American dream" and it has little to do with racism. That reason is the collapse of the African-American family. A black American male is more likely to be born out of wedlock and with no father or father figure present while growing up, than any other American ethnic group. That family decay is present among whites, but it is most pronounced among African Americans. Of course even in those cases, the "American dream" can be achieved for those that stay away from gangs and violence. For those who study hard and have goals, even if their father was not there for them, kinda' like this African-American...



This African American had a White maternal side which actually cared about his up bringing and thus substituted for the absence of his father. I guess that is the main reason one can attribute to his success in life.

Can't say the same for these guys though:















Now suppose the victims of this horrible trend had a gun and shot one of these savages and killed one, overnight he would be included in Obama's "if i had a son, he would look like" speech and the Black Panthers (the African American KKK) would be out intimidating people.

I have no respect for a man like Obama who race-baits and fans racial tensions rather than taking a neutral stance, regardless of his upbringing and his so called "achievements" in life, especially if it all leads to this.



Audio said:


> It's kids, term "irresponsible" should be synonimous with kids.


Yeah, sure, drunk teenagers getting into car accidents and killing other innocent bystanders/driver in the process, nothing big, just fun as usual. 






Audio said:


> And ya, i'm sure every teen has STD.


Gov.t statistics speak for themselves:



> *#6 According to one survey, 24 percent of all U.S. teens that have STDs say that they still have unprotected sex.* *(in other words, they will intentionally infect others, sounds like fun to you??)*





> *#10 At this point, one out of every four teen girls in the U.S. has at least one sexually transmitted disease.*







Audio said:


> Pakistani kids would be the same if there wasn't such a weight of society and it's rules over them.



This thread isn't about Pakistan. Would appreciate it if you could keep Pakistan out of the discussion.





Audio said:


> You have no right to judge on what other people consider as fun. You have your fun in glorifying Rommel


Yes i do, and the law actually agrees with me. And at least im not putting the lives of others in danger with my "glorification" (admiration actually) of Rommel.

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## VCheng

*One in four girls has an STD? Actually, the overall STD rate among the 838 girls in one study was 26 percent, with 18% having HPV* (the incidence of which is not as well studied worldwide as other diseases). Any extrapolation to the entire country of several hundred million is a bit of a stretch. Besides, there are vaccination plans against HPV being implemented.

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## Audio

Desert Fox said:


> Gov.t statistics speak for themselves:



Tyra Banks show? 




Desert Fox said:


> This thread isn't about Pakistan. Would appreciate it if you could keep Pakistan out of the discussion.



Ofcourse. I'll leave the higher morals that stoned a family member to death for another oppurtunity.




Desert Fox said:


> Yes i do, and the law actually agrees with me. And at least im not putting the lives of others in danger with my "glorification" (admiration actually) of Rommel.



Why do you assume every teenager goes to drive drunk? Any stats to support your claims? Drinking is illegal now? Dancing too? Show this law.

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## VCheng

Accord said:


> America is an artificial nation created on genocide, slavery, loot and rapes. No wonder Gun culture, mass shootings, drugs, **** industry are the hall marks of America.



So says the guy using a *computer *with *software *connected to the *Internet*, all three of which are also hallmarks of USA.

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## Desert Fox

Hyperion said:


> Dude, you need to compile a list of the crap that our society has to offer as well. Trust you me, the you'll have a never ending list at your hands!
> 
> @Desert Fox


I think i already made it clear in the previous pages of this thread that what is bad is bad, whether it happens in Pakistan or any other country in the world.

In other threads i have criticized Pakistani society. I have already been labeled a traitor, a indian posing as a Pakistani, a Western/American sympathizer, a sell out, a White people lover, etc COUNTLESS times on this forum for criticizing Pakistan/Pakistanis and the Muslim world in general because im not afraid to express my views and some people find them hard to swallow. 

However, THIS THREAD ISN'T ABOUT PAKISTAN, so there would be no point in dragging Pakistanis issues here.

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## B+ Dracula

Ravi Nair said:


> When New Zealand was about to legalise gay marriage, all this arguments about Society breakdown, the dilution of family, the end of New Zealand society as we know it....
> Nothing happened. No god's wrath. No natural calamity.


******I want Indians/chinese to Answer Only *******
As a member of Eastern Civilization (Indian man).....What are your Views about such doings?
Are they sure called Immoral acts? or Now it Should be accepted as NORMS of 21st Century
*******I want Indians/chinese to Answer Only *******


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## Desert Fox

Hyperion said:


> I know very well that we have enough threads on that...... that was precisely the point......... why group a whole nation (a civilization here) and bash it on the basis of our superior norms? Utterly useless, been done over and over.
> 
> Btw, who's the drama queen here..... minus the usual suspect?


No one's bashing America or an entire civilization here. I think i already made that clear, in case you missed out on my clarification:

The Moral Collapse and gradual break down of American/Western Society | Page 6

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## liall

Anoushirvan said:


> As a member of Eastern Civilization (Indian man).....What are your Views about such doings?
> Are they sure Immoral acts? or it Should be accepted as NORMS of 21st Century
> ******I want Indians/chinese to Answer Only ******



I support gay rights and they should be accepted as equals/given equal rights.

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## B+ Dracula

liall said:


> I support gay rights and they should be accepted as equals/given equal rights.


Any Indian Support @liall


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## Desert Fox

Audio said:


> Tyra Banks show?



Yeah, sure, "Tyra Banks show": 1 in 4 teen girls have STD - USATODAY.com




Audio said:


> Ofcourse. I'll leave the higher morals that stoned a family member to death for another oppurtunity.


Please do so.






Audio said:


> Why do you assume every teenager goes to drive drunk? Any stats to support your claims? Drinking is illegal now? Dancing too? Show this law.



Drinking and smoking is illegal for teenagers, *the ones who's behavior you were defending in the video that* @mafiya posted. And yes, drunk driving does cause horrible accidents that put non-drinking/drunk innocent bystanders lives in danger, thus giving me the right to decide that irresponsible teenagers who have no self control/restraint should not be allowed to drink (and the Federal law of the United States of America agrees with me, and not you, for a reason).

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## VCheng

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah, sure, "Tyra Banks show": 1 in 4 teen girls have STD - USATODAY.com
> 
> 
> ................





VCheng said:


> *One in four girls has an STD? Actually, the overall STD rate among the 838 girls in one study was 26 percent, with 18% having HPV* (the incidence of which is not as well studied worldwide as other diseases). Any extrapolation to the entire country of several hundred million is a bit of a stretch. Besides, there are vaccination plans against HPV being implemented.



Please go to primary academic sources rather than everyday media. This study has limited applicability nationwide.

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## Rafi

VCheng said:


> Part of the reason is that African-American leaders find it useful for themselves to keep their constituency in a deep sense of aggrievement based on events in the past ago while the world passes them by. Many will see the parallels between this strategy and in certain other countries as well.



Again, racist much?


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## Audio

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah, sure, "Tyra Banks show": 1 in 4 teen girls have STD - USATODAY.com



Black girls spread more? And yes, Tyra Banks show, your first post contained a link to the article, coincidentally it's a different survey than the one you linked now.

Tyra ‘shocked’ by risky teen sex - Parenting & Family - TODAY.com




Desert Fox said:


> Drinking and smoking is illegal for teenagers, *the ones who's behavior you were defending in the video that* @mafiya posted. And yes, drunk driving does cause horrible accidents that put non-drinking/drunk innocent bystanders lives in danger, thus giving me the right to decide that irresponsible teenagers who have no self control/restraint should not be allowed to drink (and the Federal law of the United States of America agrees with me, and not you, for a reason).



Where is proof that all teenagers go drive drunk? Where is proof that what they are smoking isn't legally obtained "bath salt" or "herbal incense"? And for all the drunk drivers you speak of, all i saw were soft drinks, beer and maybe a cider. And cigar's and cigarettes.


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## MarkusS

Accord said:


> In 2-3 decades, Blacks, Muslims and Hispanics will form the majority of the population and much of America will be mixed race.
> 
> Hindus have been the same when Europeans didnt know how to light fire, while in the Dark ages, while in Christianity period, while in todays Godless society or tomorrows society where they will be minority or with nearly extinct identity.




We have fire since 45.000 years before christ in europe. So why do you spread such unbased nonsense? Infact your culture comes from europe. Or did your ancestors fly from africa there?


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## VCheng

Accord said:


> Whitehouse Report: 1 in 5 American Woman Raped
> 
> whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/01/22/renewed-call-action-end-rape-and-sexual-assault
> 
> A report just released by the *White House Council on Women and Girls* entitled, “Rape and Sexual Assault: A Renewed Call to Action” reveals that nearly *1 in 5 women* have experienced *rape* or attempted rape in their lifetimes.



Please read the primary source first:

==============================================

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_executive_summary-a.pdf

Complete interviews were obtained from 16,507 adults (9,086 women and 7,421 men). The relative standard error (RSE), which is a measure of an estimate’s reliability, was calculated for all estimates in this report. If the RSE was greater than 30%, the estimate was deemed unreliable and is not reported.

=================================================

The full report is here:

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf

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## Velociraptor

American western society is per se in far from breaking down. It's the concept of a happy family which has broken down there !


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## VCheng

Velociraptor said:


> American western society is per se in far from breaking down. It's the concept of a happy family which has broken down there !



You mean the traditional nuclear family? Happiness is a totally different concept.


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## Velociraptor

VCheng said:


> You mean the traditional nuclear family? Happiness is a totally different concept.


Thats what ! From what i have seen/read/observed the rate of divorce is relatively high in US.

Although family per se has no direct bearing on happiness but IMO it does have a role in making oneself feel stable which in turn enable him/her to enjoy other nuances of life better which may contribute to happiness.. This is just an opinion.


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## Serpentine

That awkward moment when some new migrants to U.S try to be more American than Americans themselves, isn't that identity crisis or what?

It's absolutely no problem to have respect for the country you are living in, but this kind of behavior is just funny. Some people just go beyond boundaries and logic.

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## VCheng

Velociraptor said:


> Thats what ! From what i have seen/read/observed the rate of divorce is relatively high in US.
> 
> Although family per se has no direct bearing on happiness but IMO it does have a role in making oneself feel stable which in turn enable him/her to enjoy other nuances of life better which may contribute to happiness.. This is just an opinion.



It take a whole village to raise a child, right? May be overall society can try to be supportive to reduce the impact of reduction in nuclear families?


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## Velociraptor

VCheng said:


> It take a whole village to raise a child, right?



I didn't get it .. ! All I was stating was, the lack of a "family tradition" seems to be in the back burner for them. I am referring to family. Nowhere I mentioned joint or nuclear family.


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## MarkusS

Accord said:


> BS.
> 
> European culture comes from India, not the other way round.
> 
> Your religion is a morphed form of Judaism, a religion born in Middle eastern deserts created by Arabs.



are you kidding me? the most oldest cave paintings in europe are 45.000 years old. India was not even settled back then. People came from africa, settled europe and then asia. Thats a simple fact.


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## Bratva

Audio said:


> Black girls spread more? And yes, Tyra Banks show, your first post contained a link to the article, coincidentally it's a different survey than the one you linked now.
> 
> Tyra ‘shocked’ by risky teen sex - Parenting & Family - TODAY.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Where is proof that all teenagers go drive drunk? Where is proof that what they are smoking isn't legally obtained "bath salt" or "herbal incense"? And for all the drunk drivers you speak of, all i saw were soft drinks, beer and maybe a cider. And cigar's and cigarettes*.



When you move on from teenage morality, consider what happens in colleges, spring breaks ( Remember Fox news interviewing drunk college students?). We are discussing overall morality. If somehow they preserve their morality in teenage, as soon as they reach 18, morality goes down the drain. There are many different ways of having fun by still retaining your morality.

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## gambit

Desert Fox said:


> I agree with everything you said, except that this thread isn't about the country you are talking about (which ever country it is).
> 
> 
> Thank you, come again!


Am only providing a comparison, which is sorely needed when the US is an immigration goal for many. Surely it is your mission in life to save as many as possible from American immorality, no ?

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## VCheng

Having perused information about the worldwide incidence of sexual assaults, it is evident that certain countries have very low rates in comparison to USA and Sweden. Further inquiry resulted in useful information that USA could use to reduce the incidence of such horrible crimes:

1. Redefine sexual assault to exclude rape by husbands and live-in partners. After all, they have the legal or moral right to their wives and partners, right?

2. Insist on four witnesses to the alleged rape, failing which, the woman will be charged with lascivious assault herself. After all, female testimony cannot be as reliable as that of males, right?

3. Leering or making rude comments shall be accepted as exercise of free speech. Fondling scrotums in public while doing so shall be accepted as normal practice due to the hot weather.

There you go, USA's problems will be greatly reduced in a few simple steps.


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## jandk

gambit said:


> Am only providing a comparison, which is sorely needed when the US is an immigration goal for many. Surely it is your mission in life to save as many as possible from American immorality, no ?



Compare USA to other industrialized nations. You fare poorly


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## Velociraptor

VCheng said:


> Having perused information about the worldwide incidence of sexual assaults, it is evident that certain countries have very low rates in comparison to USA and Sweden. Further inquiry resulted in useful information that USA could use to reduce the incidence of such horrible crimes:
> 
> 1. Redefine sexual assault to exclude rape by husbands and live-in partners. After all, they have the legal or moral right to their wives and partners, right?
> 
> 2. Insist on four witnesses to the alleged rape, failing which, the woman will be charged with lascivious assault herself. After all, female testimony cannot be as reliable as that of males, right?
> 
> 3. Leering or making rude comments shall be accepted as exercise of free speech. Fondling scrotums in public while doing so shall be accepted as normal practice due to the hot weather.
> 
> There you go, USA's problems will be greatly reduced in a few simple steps.




That dripping sarcasm


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## Irajgholi

America doesn't need to be worried about no damn moral breakdown, the problem that is threatening USA right now is its increasingly uneducated/undereducated youth, increasingly lazy labor force, lack of interest in science, engineering, etc among its youth.

Also, still fighting about abortion laws, and contraceptive, what are you? a Mullah?
Mullahs and U.S. conservatives share many similar values and both group are equally idiot.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Irajgholi said:


> America doesn't need to be worried about no damn moral breakdown, the problem that is threatening USA right now is its increasingly uneducated/undereducated youth, increasingly lazy labor force, lack of interest in science, engineering, etc among its youth.
> 
> Also, still fighting about abortion laws, and contraceptive, what are you? a Mullah?
> Mullahs and U.S. conservatives share many similar values and both group are equally idiot.



Certainly there is an abundance of issues with morality, ethics, and education.

Unfortunately there will always be elements of society whether they be white, black, or whatever who choose to go down the wrong path.

Maybe some people are just "born" delinquents.

Maybe some do it because they feel they are not "smart enough" to "make it" in today's world. So they give up and go on welfare.

Maybe it's a money issue. Maybe some towns and their residents are misers and could care less about education so they refuse to pay the needed taxes and thus raise a generation of dopey kids.

It could be as someone mentioned too many dual income parents not keeping an eye on their kids. Or divorce causing a skew in a young person's mindset.

Certainly there is a cause and effect.

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## OCguy

Fact: 76% of all statistics on the internet are completely fabricated.

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## gambit

jandk said:


> Compare USA to other industrialized nations. You fare poorly


Look at it this way...

For a Briton, given a choice between the US and Britain, he would chose Britain. Not because his life would be any significantly less qualitative in terms of physical comforts and legal rights, but because Britain is more socially and culturally agreeable with him. What about a Texan or a New Yorker ? Of course either would chose the US and of course either would do so because of culture and less of issues like physical comforts or legal rights. I use physical comforts and legal rights as limited examples. There are more but am sure you are smart enough to infer what I am talking about.

Now...For the woman who was stoned to death by her relatives...

Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by her family


> LAHORE, Pakistan (AP) — A pregnant woman was stoned to death by her own family in front of a Pakistani high court on Tuesday for marrying the man she loved.


If given a choice between the US or Britain, which would she chose ?

Both the US and Britain have similar immoralities relating to the article posted here. Drugs, premarital sex, inadequate schooling, and on and on...

So if all the choices this woman have are the US and Britain, where would she go ?

Let me guess, she would chose neither because she is shocked at the drugs, premarital sex and poor education her child would be victim to, right ?

Yah...

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## Irajgholi

I don't know why I said equally idiot, should have said equally stupid. Meh.


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## anonymus

Anoushirvan said:


> Any Indian Support @liall




I support @liall , but with an added caveat: " Homosexuals should be treated as equal and given *equal *right, but only *equal, not extraordinary* rights. "

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## Hamartia Antidote

If you define the definition of the "American Dream" as a stay-at-home wife, a beautiful house in a nice town with a car and 2.5 kids and a dog then that may simply be out of reach for many people.

Not everyone is going to be successful enough to pull that off. Maybe in the strive for people to achieve this goal their kids get the short end. Who knows.

Certainly the pressure is there. Maybe the parents complain all day about it and the kids turn to some kind of delinquent activity to shut it out. Who knows.

I think people also are hesitant to move.
For instance if you are complaining about low wages in a McDonald's in NYC then you are living in the wrong place. Move to someplace you can afford to live. But it could be a chicken and egg scenario where you don't even have the money to float yourself while you look for a new place to move.

I guess I (or we) she consider ourselves lucky.

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## A Town

This guy is trying to tell us about a moral collapse in America when a girl was stoned to death outside a high court in Pakistan a few days ago lol.

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## liall

A Town said:


> This guy is trying to tell us about a moral collapse in America when a girl was stoned to death outside a high court in Pakistan a few days ago lol.



A pregnant women at that.

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## KAL-EL

OCguy said:


> Fact: 76% of all statistics on the internet are completely fabricated.



Fact: Marty McFly did travel back in time in a Delorean!!

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## gambit

A Town said:


> This guy is trying to tell us about a moral collapse in America when a girl was stoned to death outside a high court in Pakistan a few days ago lol.


Actually...His criticism still applies. The Pakistani woman who married against family's will is the one with the moral lapse. It is good that she was killed by her own kin to discourage other women from doing the same. Essentially, it is containment of moral decay. From this perspective, it is the Pakistani society that is the superior to the US.

If only we Americans are this courageous...


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## Desert Fox

gambit said:


> Am only providing a comparison, which is sorely needed when the US is an immigration goal for many.


But, this isn't a comparison thread.



gambit said:


> Surely it is your mission in life to save as many as possible from American immorality, no ?


No, but rather to highlight these social issues and spread awareness to the average couch potato/brain dead sheeple who is too lazy to bother with reality and do his/her own research and instead depends on the mainstream media to do the thinking for them, the same media, 90% of which is politically correct and hypersexualized.



gambit said:


> Actually...His criticism still applies. The Pakistani woman who married against family's will is the one with the moral lapse. It is good that she was killed by her own kin to discourage other women from doing the same. Essentially, it is containment of moral decay. From this perspective, it is the Pakistani society that is the superior to the US.
> 
> If only we Americans are this courageous...


I can't understand why you have the urge to drag Pakistan into a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you want to open a thread about Pakistani women being killed then be my guest, but please show some professionalism Mr. so called "*PROFESSIONAL*" and stop dragging Pakistan into this thread otherwise i will report your off topic posts to the mods.


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## jandk

gambit said:


> Look at it this way...
> 
> For a Briton, given a choice between the US and Britain, he would chose Britain. Not because his life would be any significantly less qualitative in terms of physical comforts and legal rights, but because Britain is more socially and culturally agreeable with him. What about a Texan or a New Yorker ? Of course either would chose the US and of course either would do so because of culture and less of issues like physical comforts or legal rights. I use physical comforts and legal rights as limited examples. There are more but am sure you are smart enough to infer what I am talking about.
> 
> Now...For the woman who was stoned to death by her relatives...
> 
> Pregnant Pakistani woman stoned to death by her family
> 
> If given a choice between the US or Britain, which would she chose ?
> 
> Both the US and Britain have similar immoralities relating to the article posted here. Drugs, premarital sex, inadequate schooling, and on and on...
> 
> So if all the choices this woman have are the US and Britain, where would she go ?
> 
> Let me guess, she would chose neither because she is shocked at the drugs, premarital sex and poor education her child would be victim to, right ?
> 
> Yah...



You can look at objective parameters such as standard of living, average gdp per capita, hdi, health care quality, etc.. Canada fares better than the US for example. Obviously the US is not a bad place to live in overall but no one is saying that in the first place. At the same time, you also have some social problems. To deny them based on the fact that people from third world countries still want to immigrate, is shoddy logic. It merely illustrates that the problems are not as bad as is made out to be in the sensationalist article in the OP.


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## gambit

jandk said:


> You can look at objective parameters such as standard of living, average gdp per capita, hdi, health care quality, etc.. Canada fares better than the US for example. Obviously the US is not a bad place to live in overall but no one is saying that in the first place. At the same time, you also have some social problems. To deny them based on the fact that people from third world countries still want to immigrate, is shoddy logic. It merely illustrates that the problems are not as bad as is made out to be in the sensationalist article in the OP.


A friend is a civil engineer, specifically traffic. He is God of all the traffic lights and transportation planning. I learned a lot from him. In traffic, there is no such thing as 'fast' or 'slow'. There is only 'faster' or 'slower'. Every vehicle's speed is relative to each other. So it is technically incorrect to portray each vehicle -- that is in motion -- as a standalone entity, like 'a fast car'. What is 'fast' or 'slow' to start ? But if you say A is 20 km *FASTER* than B, then it give everyone frames of references from which they can do their own calculations.

Who is denying that the US have our own social problems ? No American here does. But the traffic analogy is eminently applicable. If you say that A is 200 km faster than B, then it is only natural -- human nature -- that people will discard whatever speed B is doing and focus on A. Yes, we have plenty of social ills, some homegrown, some imported, and given the interconnectedness of the countries these days, it is tough, if not impossible, to distinguish which from which.

So it is patently absurd to bring out our social ills as a standalone entity. It gives people no frames of references simply because it is our human nature to make comparisons. But not only is your objection absurd, it is condescending as well. You are basically saying to everyone: 'You are too stupid to make comparisons and decide for yourselves, even if only in the abstract, so let me do your thinking for you.'

If you, and others, are that confident that our social ills are that much more terrible to humanity, then what are you afraid of allowing people to make comparisons ?


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## OCguy

One person's immorality is another's normal. Seeing society move away from religion is what I think bothers some people. That is a perfectly understandable opinion, but it isn't the only opinion.


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## Desert Fox

Audio said:


> Black girls spread more? And yes, Tyra Banks show, your first post contained a link to the article, coincidentally it's a different survey than the one you linked now.
> 
> Tyra ‘shocked’ by risky teen sex - Parenting & Family - TODAY.com



I quoted both links in my post, though it seems you intentionally left out mentioning the second one just to take a cheap shot at the sources. Though, the Tyra one only reinforces the facts mentioned in the USA-Today link.

Here is the direct source from the CDC (Center for Disease Control and Prevention) website which is a American gov.t website, and it clearly states the following:



> Chicago (March 11, 2008) – *A CDC study released today estimates that one in four (26 percent) young women between the ages of 14 and 19 in the United States – or 3.2 million teenage girls* – is infected with at least one of the most common sexually transmitted diseases (human papillomavirus (HPV), chlamydia, herpes simplex virus, and trichomoniasis).



Press Release 11 March - 2008 National STD Prevention Conference




Audio said:


> Where is proof that all teenagers go drive drunk?


Whoever said "all" teenagers go drive drunk???




Audio said:


> Where is proof that what they are smoking isn't legally obtained "bath salt" or "herbal incense"? And for all the drunk drivers you speak of, all i saw were soft drinks, beer and maybe a cider. And cigar's and cigarettes.



Clearly, you are pretending as if you are not aware of the ground realities. But to your disappointment you are not fooling me since i have grown up in America.

Now, to address your above points, here is another American gov.t Website that only reinforces what i have said:



> *What's the deal with teens and car crashes?*
> 
> *Car crashes are the No. 1 killer of teens in the U.S. Believe it.*
> *Teens are four times more likely to die or be injured in a car crash than older people.*
> *In 2003, teens accounted for 10% of the U.S. population but were involved in 13% of car crash fatalities. Seem unfair? It is!*
> Males are twice as likely as females to die or become injured in a car crash.
> *Why the bad rap for teens?*
> 
> The crash risk is high during the first year teens drive because they're newbies behind the wheel. Without years of driving practice, teens are more likely to mess up.
> *Most teen crashes occur on the weekends, when teens are too busy having fun to pay attention to their driving.*
> Teens tend to underestimate or not recognize dangerous situations.
> *Teens are more likely to speed, run red lights, make illegal turns, ride with an intoxicated driver, and drive after using alcohol or drugs.*
> So, teens are already at high risk when they're sober behind the wheel. *Driving under the influence (DUI) is just asking for more trouble. You could ruin your life, and the lives of your friends and family—or other families' lives.*
> 
> *Learn the hard facts. Don't be a statistic.*
> 
> *Eight teens die every day in DUI crashes.*
> *At all levels of blood alcohol content (BAC), the risk of being in a car crash is greater for teens than for older drivers.* Just because your dad had a beer and drove a couple of hours later doesn't mean you can. The effects are a lot stronger for teens than for adults because teens are still growing and developing.
> In 2005, *7420 teens died or injured in DUI crashes.* Teen fatalities make up one-fifth of all alcohol-related crashes, though licensed teens make up only about 6% of the overall licensed population.
> *Alcohol involvement in crashes peaks at night (9 p.m. to 6 a.m.) and is higher on weekends than on weekdays for teens. Males are almost twice as likely as females to drive under the influence.*



Source: Teen Driving Crash and Fatality Stats | Teens | Survive - Stop Yourself. Stop a Friend.


Also, this is very important since it concerns the topic at hand:



> *Drunk Driving: the Secret Life of Teens*
> 
> Inseparable since kindergarten, Jessica Rasdall, right, and Laura Gorman, left, had always been a dynamic duo. Growing up in St. Petersburg, Fla., the best friends experimented with makeup, dyed each other's hair and loved to have fun. But years later that would all change in an instant as a girl's night out turned fatal. *"I am going to wake up every day for the rest of my life knowing I killed my best friend," Rasdall said from prison.*
> It started with a trip to a club. *There were drinks, and a walk to the car, with Rasdall taking the wheel. Less than an hour later, Gorman was dead. And her best friend would be charged with killing her. *
> 
> Watch the full story on "20/20" Friday at 10 p.m. ET.
> 
> *On average, a drunken driver kills someone every 40 minutes in the United States. That's 36 deaths daily and more than 13,000 annually. The highway deaths are so frequent they can go unnoticed, until one hits close to home. *



Drunken Driving Crash Shattered Teen's Life - ABC News


Very tragic to see that a young woman with her whole life ahead of her, full of so much potential, lost her life all because her and her friend decided to have some "fun" one night.  One wound up dead and the other in prison.

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## gambit

Desert Fox said:


> No, but rather to highlight these social issues and spread awareness to the average couch potato/brain dead sheeple who is too lazy to bother with reality and do his/her own research and instead depends on the mainstream media to do the thinking for them, the same media, 90% of which is politically correct and hypersexualized.


Right...So your mission is to educate Americans ? 

The American media is politically correct and hypersexualized ? 

More like I see someone who only know how to use jargons but not what they really mean.


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## Kompromat

Lets call it a day!


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