# Xinjiang Province: News & Discussions



## houshanghai

Chinese scientists say water diversion from Bohai to Xinjiang unfeasible
English.news.cn 2010-11-16 20:32:30	FeedbackPrintRSS
BEIJING, Nov. 16 (Xinhua) -- A proposal to divert water from the Bohai Sea on China's eastern coast to Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in the far west to fight deserts and sandstorms is "unfeasible" and an "illusion," water resources scientists and experts said Tuesday.

They made the remarks while responding to questions at a press conference in Beijing concerning a study on Xinjiang's water strategy and sustainable development.

Shi Yulin, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering and a research fellow at the Institute of Geographic Sciences and Natural Resources Research of the Chinese Academy of Sciences, said the salt contained in the huge amount of diverted sea water could further encrust the saline land in Xinjiang.

Li Zechun, an academician at Chinese Academy of Engineering, and former director of National Climate Center, said the sea water could not produce sufficient vapor to create enough rainfall to affect the climate in northwestern regions.

Ning Yuan, former deputy director and research fellow of the South-North Water Diversion Project Commission (SNWDPC) of the State Council, said the Bohai Sea was 5,000 km from Xinjiang, five times the distance of the South-North Water Diversion from Danjiangkou, in central Hubei Province, to Beijing.

That meant the laying of a pipeline, the huge cost of the project, and the water distribution were all problems "beyond imagination," Ning said.

In a widely reported meeting on Nov. 5 in Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang, researchers and local government officials discussed the proposal to divert water from east China to the west.

According to the proposal, the huge amount of sea water, if diverted to the west, could form man-made lakes and rivers and serve as vapor source to create more rainfall to contain the threat of desertification in north and northwest China.

Chinese scientists say water diversion from Bohai to Xinjiang unfeasible


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## CardSharp

Hell I thought it was a dumb idea the moment I heard about it.


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## no_name

There's a limit to what even china can do.
Guess they just have to go for the slow approach, plant more pine trees and fight the desert.


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## CarbonD

Chinese state media says 12 people have died in riots near the north-western city of Kashgar in Xinjiang province.

The Xinhua news agency reported that rioters killed 10 people, while police shot dead two of the rioters.

The report gives no detail as to what might have triggered the violence.

Security has been high in the north-western province since riots in 2009 in the capital Urumqi between the Muslim Uighurs, who are the largest ethnic group, and Han Chinese migrants.

Nearly 200 people were killed in that unrest, most of them Han, according to officials.

Uighur grievances
Tuesday's violence took place in a market in Yecheng county, according to Xinhua, which says police are still hunting some of the rioters.

Almost half of Xinjiang's residents are Uighurs, Turkic-speaking Muslims with cultural and ethnic links to Central Asia.

Many complain that large-scale migration of Han Chinese workers from the east has cost them jobs and is eroding their culture.

China has invested heavily in Xinjiang and the region's rich oil and gas deposits are vital to its booming economy.

Uighur allegations of discrimination and marginalisation have been behind anti-Han and separatist sentiment in Xinjiang since the 1990s.

Further violence broke out in July 2011 and left 32 people dead.

A hostage-taking incident in December led to the death of seven kidnappers - part of a "terror gang," according to Chinese state media.

China claims it faces an organised terrorist threat from radical Muslims in Xinjiang, but Uighur activists say citizens are angry at Beijing's heavy-handed rule in the region.

BBC News - China violence: 12 dead in Kashgar city in Xinjiang


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## Lambda

> China claims it faces an *organised terrorist threat from radical Muslims* in Xinjiang, but Uighur activists say citizens are angry at Beijing's heavy-handed rule in the region.



Good Work China.

Kill Each and Every Islamic Terrorist Thug.

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## God of Death

RIP to the innocent Muslims. shame on china 

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------




Lambda said:


> Good Work China.
> 
> Kill Each and Every Islamic Terrorist.


 

They are not terrorists they are innocent Muslims who are living under chinese occupation. 

china even calls Dalai Lama a terrorist do u belive Dalai Lama is a terrorist????????

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## ephone

What kind of fxxk-up grievances uighurs have??? 

Even if you have grievances, you can take knives out to streets to kill normal people randomly???

If the west still thinks the above is normal, how about we round up those uighurs and use machine guns to weed them out???



CarbonD said:


> Chinese state media says 12 people have died in riots near the north-western city of Kashgar in Xinjiang province.
> 
> The Xinhua news agency reported that rioters killed 10 people, while police shot dead two of the rioters.
> 
> The report gives no detail as to what might have triggered the violence.
> 
> Security has been high in the north-western province since riots in 2009 in the capital Urumqi between the Muslim Uighurs, who are the largest ethnic group, and Han Chinese migrants.
> 
> Nearly 200 people were killed in that unrest, most of them Han, according to officials.
> 
> Uighur grievances
> Tuesday's violence took place in a market in Yecheng county, according to Xinhua, which says police are still hunting some of the rioters.
> 
> Almost half of Xinjiang's residents are Uighurs, Turkic-speaking Muslims with cultural and ethnic links to Central Asia.
> 
> Many complain that large-scale migration of Han Chinese workers from the east has cost them jobs and is eroding their culture.
> 
> China has invested heavily in Xinjiang and the region's rich oil and gas deposits are vital to its booming economy.
> 
> Uighur allegations of discrimination and marginalisation have been behind anti-Han and separatist sentiment in Xinjiang since the 1990s.
> 
> Further violence broke out in July 2011 and left 32 people dead.
> 
> A hostage-taking incident in December led to the death of seven kidnappers - part of a "terror gang," according to Chinese state media.
> 
> China claims it faces an organised terrorist threat from radical Muslims in Xinjiang, but Uighur activists say citizens are angry at Beijing's heavy-handed rule in the region.
> 
> BBC News - China violence: 12 dead in Kashgar city in Xinjiang


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## Invincible INDIAN

RIP to the freedom fighters!!!

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## conworldus

This Indian troll fest is comical. Let's wait for more details first.

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## Mech

Lambda said:


> Good Work China.
> 
> Kill Each and Every Islamic Terrorist Thug.


 
Man....what i would give, for a Pakistani response to this.....

No joy.

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## Ammyy

RIP to dead 

Where are double faced Pakistani members ???? 

Crying so much about riots in India where are they right now ???? You really dnt have any right to talk about muslims

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## 53fd

RIP to the dead. Let's hold our horses & wait for the details to come out.

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## CarbonD

Han chinese are the cruel lot. They colonise every bit from inner mongolia to tibet they steal peoples jobs. As the ruling government are Han, I suppose they get special status over minorities.

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## Fanling Monk

Nothing on Reuters or Xinhua yet, and I don't trust BBC


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## conworldus

CarbonD said:


> Han chinese are the cruel lot. They colonise every bit from inner mongolia to tibet they steal peoples jobs. As the ruling government are Han, I suppose they get special status over minorities.



You have no idea what you are talking about. Minorities have preferential status in China. Stop being a joke.


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## Ammyy

*Riots in China's Xinjiang kill at least 12*
Posted: 28 February 2012 2349 hrs


BEIJING: Riots in the volatile Chinese region of Xinjiang left at least 12 people dead on Tuesday, state news agency Xinhua reported, in the latest unrest to rock the country's remote northwest.

The news agency said that "rioters" killed at least 10 people, and police then shot dead two of those involved in the violence in Yecheng county, Kashgar prefecture.

Xinhua said that "violent mobs" launched attacks at around 6:00 pm (1000 GMT) and police were now in pursuit of those involved in the violence. 

The information could not be immediately independently verified.

Xinjiang - a vast region in China's northwest that is home to around nine million mostly Muslim Uighurs who complain of oppression under Chinese rule - has been hit by sporadic bouts of violent unrest in the past few years.

Xinjiang authorities said last month they plan to recruit 8,000 extra police officers, as China strengthens security in the country's volatile regions in the run-up to a major leadership transition later this year.

In July 2009, Xinjiang was hit by China's worst ethnic violence in decades when Uighurs launched attacks on members of the country's dominant Han group in the regional capital Urumqi.

The government says nearly 200 people were killed and 1,700 injured in the violence, which shattered the authoritarian Communist Party's claims of harmony and unity among the country's dozens of ethnic groups.

China threw a huge security clampdown on Xinjiang after the violence and many Uighurs are angry over the arrests or alleged disappearances of people rounded up across the region in the aftermath.

In December, seven people were killed in Pishan county in what the government described as a hostage rescue operation after "terrorists" kidnapped two people.

Exiles, however, said the incident was a conflict between regular Uighurs and policemen prompted by mounting discontent over a crackdown and religious repression in the area.

The region was also hit by three deadly attacks last July that left dozens dead.

The government blames much of the violence in the resource-rich region on extremism, separatism and terrorism but some experts doubt terror cells operate in Xinjiang, where Turkic-speaking Uighurs practise a moderate form of Islam.

Riots in China's Xinjiang kill at least 12 - Channel NewsAsia


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## ARCHON

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian


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## Ammyy

People talk to much about India 

Now where is muslim brotherhood 

Can Pakistani government and Pakistani people protest about it even on internet ????

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## ARCHON

AFP: Riots in China&#39;s Xinjiang &#39;kill at least 12&#39;

---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

At least 12 dead in Xinjiang violence - FT.com

---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

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## ARCHON



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## God of Death

Fanling Monk said:


> Nothing on Reuters or Xinhua yet, and I don't trust BBC



Washington Post:

China says at least 12 killed in riot near city of Kashgar in restive northwestern Xinjiang - The Washington Post

The Guardian:

China riots leave 12 people dead | World news | The Guardian

The Telegrapgh:

A dozen killed in latest Chinese riots - Telegraph

Time:

Riots in China Leave at Least 12 Dead - TIME

The Australian:

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

Whichever floats ur boat.

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## God of Death

Washington Post:

China says at least 12 killed in riot near city of Kashgar in restive northwestern Xinjiang - The Washington Post

The Guardian:

China riots leave 12 people dead | World news | The Guardian

The Telegrapgh:

A dozen killed in latest Chinese riots - Telegraph

Time:

Riots in China Leave at Least 12 Dead - TIME

The Australian:

Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian

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## heartrocker22

ephone said:


> What kind of fxxk-up grievances uighurs have???
> 
> Even if you have grievances, you can take knives out to streets to kill normal people randomly???
> 
> If the west still thinks the above is normal, how about we round up those uighurs and use machine guns to weed them out???




*"East Turkishstan " * sounds interesting......All the best turks

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## FairAndUnbiased

Earliest Han settlement in the Tarim basin was in 200 AD. Earliest Uighur settlement in the Tarim basin was 900 AD.

They are illegal immigrants and exactly like the Europeans who stole land from the Australian aborigines and Native Americans.

They are white colonists trying to steal land from the native Han. They just had the misfortune of being the ones with native technology against European level technology.

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## Shivani Malhotra

May these martyrs gets place in Jannat.

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## 53fd

A thread already exists, no need to get too excited:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/162099-china-violence-12-dead-kashgar-city-xinjiang.html


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## ARCHON

---------- Post added at 11:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------




bilalhaider said:


> A thread already exists, no need to get too excited:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/162099-china-violence-12-dead-kashgar-city-xinjiang.html



please request to merge both and make it sticky.


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## God of Death

RIP to the Shaheed innocent Muslims.

Solidarity with East Turkmenistan and its people fighting for their rights on their own motherland.

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## Wet Shirt Contest

Lambda said:


> Good Work China.
> 
> Kill Each and Every Islamic Terrorist Thug.



Those Are Freedom Fighter's *NOT* Terrorists... 
Please Edit Your Post

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## ARCHON



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## scherz

What a surprise. I ask myself why chinese have the urge to be killed all over the world or even in their own country... Indonesia, USA (former times), vietnam, Tibet. Whats the problem with u? Most of us act too defensiv. They were treated like a easy target for riotors. Even those no-han ethnics have more rights then us. Why the goverment do this. Why dont u be more aggressiv. It just makes me angry hearing such news again and again...


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## FairAndUnbiased

crimemaster_gogo said:


> your comment will provoke users from Turkiye. its actually a fight for east turkishstan? they are not terrorists they are freedom fighters and brave soldiers ready to die in the name of Allah and jehad. down with the occupiers of east turkiestan.



it is not east turkistan. Han were there first. Uighurs are white colonists who are attacking the natives.

The only difference is, these natives have tanks, nuclear weapons and stealth fighters, and the white colonists only have sticks and stones.


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## FairAndUnbiased

scherz said:


> What a surprise. I ask myself why chinese have the urge to be killed all over the world or even in their own country... Indonesia, USA (former times), vietnam, Tibet. Whats the problem with u? Most of us act too defensiv. They were treated like a easy target for riotors. Even those no-han ethnics have more rights then us. Why the goverment do this. Why dont u be more aggressiv. It just makes me angry hearing such news again and again...



in Vietnam we killed 150,000 of their civilians as punishment so we're even.


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## CarbonD

*I suppose they get special status over minorities.*
I didnt say they do READ


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## Shivani Malhotra

God of Death said:


> RIP to the Shaheed innocent Muslims.
> 
> Solidarity with East Turkmenistan and its people fighting for their rights on their own motherland.



Someone should support them morally.It is duty of every muslim to fight against oppressors. I dont understand why muslim world is quite over all this ?

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## kingkobra

i don't think they are consider as muslims..


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## RazPaK

God of Death said:


> Off topic post reported for flame and troll.
> 
> If Mods care to implement rules fairly.




I believe trolling is the intent of this thread, by Indians towards Chinese members.

If anything every Indian should receive an infraction.

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## FairAndUnbiased

Shivani Malhotra said:


> Someone should support them morally.It is duty of every muslim to fight against oppressors. I dont understand why muslim world is quite over all this ?



the Uighurs are the oppressors. They are illegal white colonists taking over Han land, thinking that just like Europeans in the Americas, they can kill the natives (Hans, who were there 700 years before them) and take their land.

Their miscalculation was that they're the ones with sticks and stones against tanks, nukes and stealth fighters.


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## Shivani Malhotra

RazPaK said:


> Not quite. You have a deficiency in your knowledge of history and geo-politics. Please do more reading.



I think you need to go through history and that too from neutral sources.


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## CarbonD

RazPaK said:


> I believe you need to show solidarity on Kashmir's Black Day as well.


Nothing to do with kashmir please keep kashmir out of this Please

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## ARCHON



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## StingRoy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> the Uighurs are the oppressors. They are illegal white colonists taking over Han land, thinking that just like Europeans in the Americas, they can kill the natives (Hans, who were there 700 years before them) and take their land.
> 
> Their miscalculation was that they're the ones with sticks and stones against tanks, nukes and stealth fighters.



We know who the oppressors are ... lets do a head count now... shall we? 

Btw.. whats the deal with the Hans and their never dying love for more land?

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## ARCHON



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## rajnikant

RazPaK said:


> May also the martyers in J&K.


 
ooo..really..dnt u hav nethn 2 say for ur masters atrocities...barbarisms...rip 2 martyrs.


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## RazPaK

CarbonD said:


> Nothing to do with kashmir please keep kashmir out of this Please



Indians must realize their hypocrisy to support one freedom movement and not another.


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## Aramsogo

Shivani Malhotra said:


> Someone should support them morally.It is duty of every muslim to fight against oppressors. I dont understand why muslim world is quite over all this ?


 
What if it's a Hui Chinese Muslim vs. a Uighur Chinese Muslim as in this case??
It's a tie.
The solution is to Free Kashmir, where it's Hindu oppressors vs innocent Muslims.


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## Ammyy

RazPaK said:


> Indians must realize their hypocrisy to support one freedom movement and not another.



Pakistan must stop BS about riots any where including India 

If not then why not roona dhona for riots in China ???? 


*
I really like you defending murder of muslims ... this is called real hypocrisy *

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## Zabaniyah

That's what I call excessive use of force. I'd really not recommend such heavy-handed tactics.

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## RazPaK

The Chinese should be careful about the Indian Consulates within Afghanistan. 

From the map below you can see where the consulates are located and from where Indian terror is spread from to the region.

Soon before you know it Indians will start arming sepratists with sophisticated weapons in China as they are doing in Balochistan.

Map:


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## regular

Lambda said:


> Good Work China.
> 
> Kill Each and Every Islamic Terrorist Thug.


Yes! kill every CIA/RAW run terrorists disguised as radical Muslims in China.....Excellent work done brotherz......


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## RazPaK

Andross said:


> Are u stupid? hindus live with muslims in Kashmir in peace but the wahabis from Pakistan are causing the problem


Uighars are not the only Muslims within China. The Hui Muslims have no problem practicing their religion in China and have equal rights.


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## ARCHON




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## Aramsogo

Andross said:


> Are u stupid? hindus live with muslims in Kashmir in peace but the wahabis from Pakistan are causing the problem



That's some good weed you are smoking. Indian "Live in Peace" = armed fortress and mass graves

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## Shivani Malhotra

RazPaK said:


> Baloch were given an option, they joined Pakistan of their free will. We have Baloch members on this forum, especially from the tribes in qustion such as the Marri tribe than can educate you on Balochistan thread. Thanks.



Same is the case with Kashmir,Baluchistan was not a part of Pakistan in 1947; And that it was invaded in 1948 by Pakistan who is occupying it ever since without any international protests. Sir it would be good if you go through Baloch history instead of talking about Kashmir. Since we are not talking about K or B it would be good to drop it here and talk about killing of people in Xinjiang.Thanks.


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## jbond197

And I thought Uighurs are Turks and I read in multiple threads on this forum many in Pakistan claim themselves to be turkish root as well.. So why the love lost for your brothers??

hmm I think this phrase suits you "Paisa bolta hai aur bulwata hai".. or may be this one as well - all are "Matlab ke yaar"


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## ARCHON



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## zip

I have my sympathy with chinese govt on this issue .. They may be expansionist,against freedom of speech but they never were religious fundamentalists ...
but here one hypothetical question arises ..tomorrow if some religious nut calls for jihad in support of these muslims(great possibility) what will be the response of general public and govt of pakistan ?


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## jbond197

Those who claim themselves to be of Turk root (among South Asians) should show solidarity with their Uighur turkish biradars..

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## rajnikant

RazPaK said:


> The Chinese should be careful about the Indian Consulates within Afghanistan.
> 
> From the map below you can see where the consulates are located and from where Indian terror is spread from to the region.
> 
> Soon before you know it Indians will start arming sepratists with sophisticated weapons in China as they are doing in Balochistan.
> 
> Map:


 Lol..lo bhai RAW aa hi gya beech mei...u 2 mighty nations wid superior capblities cant do jack abt a single RAW..so dat it is creating unrest in pakistan n china tht too simaltaneously....
Let me give u n optn..get a "chullu bar paani..."
U cry for palestine, chechnya but when innocent muslims r getting martyred in chin land ur mum...wats d matter dooode...I can imagine ur condition.


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## Kesang

Zabaniya said:


> That's what I call excessive use of force. I'd really not recommend such heavy-handed tactics.



You are the only non-hypocrate in this thread.


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## ARCHON

not RAAA agints..

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## jbond197

Hans wanna hanicize poor Tibetians/Uighurs and any one who becomes an obstacle is dealt in the similar way..

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## RazPaK

Shivani Malhotra said:


> Same is the case with Kashmir,Baluchistan was not a part of Pakistan in 1947; And that it was invaded in 1948 by Pakistan who is occupying it ever since without any international protests. Sir it would be good if you go through Baloch history instead of talking about Kashmir. Since we are not talking about K or B it would be good to drop it here and talk about killing of people in Xinjiang.Thanks.



The Khan of Kalat eventually acceded to Pakistan. If you want to you this as a pretext towards Balochistan, please do explain about Junagadh. Thanks.

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## silko

what my beautifull Turkistan has come to... 

years after years of oppression and yet, nobody cares for you. what should i do, be sad or mad. to hard to choose, but be aware my Turkish brothers in the far east. 

FREEDOM will one day come to you, just like it came to us!

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## karan.1970

This thread and Pakistani responses on this thread is a proof why the tamasha of Muslim first and Pakistani next is exactly that.. A tamasha... National interests (in case of Pakistan being always nice to China) always trump any religious obligations. For most Pakistani members here, the religion is nothing but an excuse to justify actions which are otherwise not justifiable by logic

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## ARCHON



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## rajnikant

karan.1970 said:


> This thread and Pakistani responses on this thread is a proof why the tamasha of Muslim first and Pakistani next is exactly that.. A tamasha... National interests (in case of Pakistan being always nice to China) always trump any religious obligations. For most Pakistani members here, the religion is nothing but an excuse to justify actions which are otherwise not justifiable by logic


 well said..n observed.


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## HongWu

silko said:


> what my beautifull Turkistan has come to...
> 
> years after years of oppression and yet, nobody cares for you. what should i do, be sad or mad. to hard to choose, but be aware my Turkish brothers in the far east.
> 
> FREEDOM will one day come to you, just like it came to us!


Your so-called Turkish brother can leave China if they wish and go to Turkey. As for China's Xinjiang, it is China's homeland since ancient times and hundreds of millions of Han Chinese will live in Xinjiang again as we are opening up transportation via high speed rail. Most Uighurs folks accept the government. The few who resist will be locked up.


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## ARCHON

HongWu said:


> Your so-called Turkish brother can leave China if they wish and go to Turkey. As for China's Xinjiang, it is China's homeland since ancient times and hundreds of millions of Han Chinese will live in Xinjiang again as we are opening up transportation via high speed rail. Most Uighurs folks accept the government. The few who resist will be locked up.



its their home.. stop suppression..

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## Gandhi G in da house

silko said:


> what my beautifull Turkistan has come to...
> 
> years after years of oppression and yet, nobody cares for you. what should i do, be sad or mad. to hard to choose, but be aware my Turkish brothers in the far east.
> 
> FREEDOM will one day come to you, just like it came to us!



Even Turkey has ignored their plight in return for a good relationship with China . They are all alone now .

---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

P.S -My Indian friends always remember we have to protect our Arunachali brothers from falling into such oppression . At any cost we have to protect Arunachal . 

Sauron's ( China's) eye is set on Arunachal right now .


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## untitled

karan.1970 said:


> This thread and Pakistani responses on this thread is a proof why the tamasha of Muslim first and Pakistani next is exactly that.. A tamasha......



This thread is the proof that Indians care about Muslims rights only if China is persecuting them. Otherwise the Muslim plight is a *tamasha* to them

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## jbond197

pdf_shurtah said:


> This thread is the proof that Indians care about Muslims rights only if China is persecuting them. Otherwise the Muslim plight is a *tamasha* to them



Forget Indians for a moment and tell us what's you take on this? are they terrorists or the people who want basic rights to live in their own lands.

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## Areesh

God of Death said:


> RIP to the innocent Muslims. shame on china
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:34 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are not terrorists they are innocent Muslims who are living under chinese occupation.
> 
> china even calls Dalai Lama a terrorist do u belive Dalai Lama is a terrorist????????


 


Invincible INDIAN said:


> RIP to the freedom fighters!!!


 


Andross said:


> Hans are treating tibetians and Uighur muslims like 2nd class people real shame


 


DRDO said:


> RIP to dead
> 
> Where are double faced Pakistani members ????
> 
> Crying so much about riots in India where are they right now ???? You really dnt have any right to talk about muslims


 


ARCHON said:


> AFP: Riots in China's Xinjiang 'kill at least 12'
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------
> 
> At least 12 dead in Xinjiang violence - FT.com
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------


 


God of Death said:


> Washington Post:
> 
> China says at least 12 killed in riot near city of Kashgar in restive northwestern Xinjiang - The Washington Post
> 
> The Guardian:
> 
> China riots leave 12 people dead | World news | The Guardian
> 
> The Telegrapgh:
> 
> A dozen killed in latest Chinese riots - Telegraph
> 
> Time:
> 
> Riots in China Leave at Least 12 Dead - TIME
> 
> The Australian:
> 
> Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian
> 
> Whichever floats ur boat.


 


Shivani Malhotra said:


> May these martyrs gets place in Jannat.


 


Wet Shirt Contest said:


> Those Are Freedom Fighter's *NOT* Terrorists...
> Please Edit Your Post



And this is what India do to it's Muslims. Kashmir is just one example out of countless others. Today's story.



> SRINAGAR, India &#8212; India has rejected every request over two decades to prosecute Indian soldiers in civilian court in Kashmir for alleged rights abuses including murder and rape, according to documents given Tuesday to the Associated Press.
> 
> The revelation is likely to spark an outcry by Kashmiri activists who for years have accused Indian troops of abusing wide-ranging powers to search, seize and even shoot suspects. Those powers were given in 1990 when India faced a violent insurgency in the Himalayan territory that has since waned significantly.
> 
> 
> Under the draconian Armed Forces Special Powers Act, Kashmir needs federal approval for prosecuting paramilitary or army soldiers in civilian courts.
> 
> Kashmir has sough permission in 50 such cases in the last two decades, but India has refused every one, the territory&#8217;s Home Ministry said in a response this week to a Right to Information request filed by The Coalition of Civil Society, a local rights group.
> 
> The Kashmiri government would not say what other options it could or would follow in seeking justice. &#8220;We&#8217;re taking legal recourse,&#8221; Home Department Secretary B.R. Sharma said Tuesday, without specifying what that might be.
> 
> The rights group said the information vindicated what Kashmiri activists have been arguing for years.
> 
> &#8220;It implies there is 100 percent legal impunity for Indian troops operating in Jammu and Kashmir,&#8221; said Khurram Parvez of the Coalition.
> 
> Kashmir&#8217;s Chief Minister Omar Abdullah proposed eliminating the special powers last year, but was rebuffed by the federal government after the army objected.
> 
> India has long relied on military might to retain control over Kashmir and has fought two territorial wars with Pakistan, which also claims the mountain region as its own.
> 
> Indian troops faced a bloody, separatist insurgency in the early 1990s. The uprising and subsequent Indian crackdown killed 68,000 people, but the conflict has largely subsided with public opposition to Indian rule now expressed in street protests.
> 
> Nevertheless, the region remains heavily militarized, with hundreds of thousands of Indian troops stationed and maintaining checkpoints throughout Indian-controlled territory. Pakistan and China also control portions of the region.
> 
> Human rights workers have accused Indian troops of illegally detaining, torturing and killing rebel suspects, sometimes even staging gunbattles as pretexts to kill.
> 
> The Indian army says it has punished 59 soldiers in 25 proven abuse cases, out of 995 complaints it has received, according to its website. It gives no dates for or details about the complaints, and does not say what the punishments entailed.



India blocked Kashmir from prosecuting troops for alleged rights abuses, documents show - The Washington Post

Hypocrite India. Hypocrite Indians.

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## HongWu

ARCHON said:


> its their home.. stop suppression..


Xinjiang is the home of every single Chinese, no matter what ethnic background. No Uighur can fight against hundreds of millions of Han Chinese settlers.


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## silko

nick_indian said:


> Even Turkey has ignored their plight in return for a good relationship with China . They are all alone now.



your wrong my friend. they may not have governmental support, but they sure has the support of Turks living in Turkey all the way to Khyrgyzystan!

the government still supports Uyghur Turks politically, but we have to have restrictions, because of the relation with China. but nowhere have the government let go of the support for the Uyghur Turks.

---------- Post added at 07:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------




HongWu said:


> Xinjiang is the home of every single Chinese, no matter what ethnic background. No Uighur can fight again hundreds of millions of Han Chinese settlers.



keep on with this attitude...

East Turkistan is the home of Uyghurs that has been occupied by China, no one can deny that.

years after years of oppression for the ethnich people there. and then some communists come and destroy this beautifull country.

keep on settling and tramping on the rights of Uyghurs.


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## untitled

jbond197 said:


> Forget Indians for a moment and tell us what's you take on this?



You guys brought Pakistan in to this



> are they terrorists or the people who want basic rights to live in their own lands.



From the news the rioters killed ten people. 2 of the rioters were killed by the police

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## karan.1970

pdf_shurtah said:


> This thread is the proof that Indians care about Muslims rights only if China is persecuting them. Otherwise the Muslim plight is a *tamasha* to them



Where did you see me defend Muslims in China or blame china?? The point is that neither has any of the Pakistani members who normally behave like thekedars of Islam across the world

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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> Hypocrite India. Hypocrite Indians.



And Pakistani cant even raise voice for killing of muslims, who clamming them self biggest defender of islam


But we really understand your condition you say a single word against China ... your last hope


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## karan.1970

DRDO said:


> And Pakistani cant even raise voice for killing of muslims, who clamming them self biggest defender of islam
> 
> 
> But we really understand your condition you say a single word against China ... your last hope



Its very similar to Pakistan's behavior towards USA in 1970's and 80's where no matter what USA did, Pakistan was always full of praises for them. And this is not strange at all.. Its a hallmark of every unequal relationship.. China can live without Pakistan, but the reverse isnt true

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## Areesh

DRDO said:


> And Pakistani cant even raise voice for killing of muslims, who clamming them self biggest defender of islam
> 
> 
> But we really understand your condition you say a single word against China ... your last hope



10 people killed by rioters. 2 rioters killed by security forces. Welcome to China
4 Militants killed. 10 children killed for stone pelting. 1 Lady r@ped. 8 youth arrested for protesting against the r@pe. Welcome to India.

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> 10 people killed by rioters. 2 rioters killed by security forces. Welcome to China
> 4 Militants killed. 10 children killed for stone pelting. 1 Lady r@ped. 8 youth arrested for protesting against the r@pe. Welcome to India.



Post reported for off topic reference..


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> Post reported for off topic reference..



Should have reminded this yourself when you first brought Pakistan in this thread. Too late now.

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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> 10 people killed by rioters. 2 rioters killed by security forces. Welcome to China
> 4 Militants killed. 10 children killed for stone pelting. 1 Lady r@ped. 8 youth arrested for protesting against the r@pe. Welcome to India.




As already proved you cant say any thing about riots in China ... even if they kill thousands 

By introducing stone pelting, kids arrest ................................ and rape (I dnt know to which you talk about) ... nice try ti divert topic

Some stupid here said that India is US slave but no one prove it ... now you prove your self as slave by this and its a live proof


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## Areesh

DRDO said:


> As already proved you cant say any thing about riots in China ... even if they kill thousands
> 
> By introducing stone pelting, kids arrest ................................ and rape (I dnt know to which you talk about) ... nice try ti divert topic
> 
> Some stupid here said that India is US slave but no one prove it ... now you prove your self as slave by this and its a live proof



Haha You are getting desperate now.


----------



## ares

Areesh said:


> 10 people killed by rioters. 2 rioters killed by security forces. Welcome to China
> 4 Militants killed. 10 children killed for stone pelting. 1 Lady r@ped. 8 youth arrested for protesting against the r@pe. Welcome to India.



Lets not get into "summary executions" and "mass rapes" because the figures might run in millions once Pakistan's records are delved into.


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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> Haha You are getting desperate now.



And seems you really enjoy these killing of muslims by china ????


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## Areesh

ares said:


> Lets not get into "summary executions" and "mass rapes" because the figures might run in millions once Pakistan's records are delved into.



Never got into any "summary executions". Just telling trolls of your country about some incidents which happen in India. It hurts I think.

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Should have reminded this yourself when you first brought Pakistan in this thread. Too late now.


there is a difference in talking about Pakistan's response to the given incident and a totally unrelated event in India.. But I guess you already know that...


----------



## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> there is a difference in talking about Pakistan's response to the given incident and a totally unrelated event in India.. But I guess you already know that...



Pakistan's response is also unrelated to this thread.

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## ares

Areesh said:


> Never got into any "summary executions". Just telling trolls of your country about some incidents which happen in India. It hurts I think.



To which I am pointing out, that you might want to stay clear off!!...since there are more than a million examples of the same in your own country.


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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> Pakistan's response is also unrelated to this thread.



You people clamming yourself biggest " Rakshak " of islam ..

If not they crying for gujrat ???


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> Pakistan's response is also unrelated to this thread.



Not really.. When you discuss an incident (like the one in China), international response to that incident is a perfectly valid discussion item..


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## Areesh

ares said:


> To which I am pointing out,that you might want to stay clear off!!...since there more than million examples of the same into your country.



And there might be a little more than a million examples of the same from your country. Ask your trolls to behave maturely in the end.

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 AM ----------




karan.1970 said:


> Not really.. When you discuss an incident (like the one in China), international response to that incident is a perfectly valid discussion item..



No it is a perfect trolling item. And "internaltional" seems limited to Pakistan in this case.

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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> No it is a perfect trolling item. And "internaltional" seems limited to Pakistan in this case.



We are on *Pakistan* defence Forum after all


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## Areesh

karan.1970 said:


> We are on *Pakistan* defence Forum after all



And since Indians are here in big numbers hence Kashmir.

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## ares

Areesh said:


> And there might be a little more than a million examples of the same from your country. Ask your trolls to behave maturely in the end.



Unlike you I do not think that, I am responsible for anyone's post but mine.

P.S. I would sure like to know about these "little more than million examples" that happened in my country by PM offcourse(if you are not comfortable posting them here)


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## Dr. NooB NinjA

First hand example of Pakistani members and their hypocrisy here in this thread..!! Well done..!!

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## ChineseTiger1986

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Earliest Han settlement in the Tarim basin was in 200 AD. Earliest Uighur settlement in the Tarim basin was 900 AD.
> 
> They are illegal immigrants and exactly like the Europeans who stole land from the Australian aborigines and Native Americans.
> 
> They are white colonists trying to steal land from the native Han. They just had the misfortune of being the ones with native technology against European level technology.



Many Uyghurs are actually the turkified Tocharians, who were around the same time with Han people in Xinjiang, only the Turks were the late arrivals.


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## karan.1970

Areesh said:


> And since Indians are here in big numbers hence Kashmir.



Thanks for accepting Kashmir as a part of India  ... pwned


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## Areesh

ares said:


> Unlike you I do not think that, I am responsible for anyone's post but mine.
> 
> P.S. I would sure like to know about these "little more than million examples" that happened in my country by PM offcourse(if you are not comfortable posting them here)



Kashmir makes a good part of little more than million examples. Missing persons, high death figures, Unmarked graves, no accountability, decades of violence, draconion laws. Enough for anyone to guess what happens/happened in the so called integral part. 

---------- Post added at 01:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 AM ----------




karan.1970 said:


> Thanks for accepting Kashmir as a part of India  ... pwned



Just to make a point about your trolling and your country. Glad I made you feel happy. Helping children suffering with autism is noble indeed.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Chinese are very good people and Peace loving country. 
Only those people were killed who created violence .
While India army in Kashmir which kills children who plays cricket.
India army forces the Kashmiri children to jump into the river.

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## ares

Areesh said:


> Kashmir makes a good part of little more than million examples. Missing persons, high death figures, Unmarked graves, no accountability, decades of violence, draconion laws. Enough for anyone to guess what happens/happened in the so called integral part.



I am not sure where you learned Mathematics(guessing you might be suitable candidate for a full refund on your tuition fees)... but sure I would like believe you ..if you can back your claims(the numbers) with a legitimate source and necessary calculations.


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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> Kashmir makes a good part of little more than million examples. Missing persons, high death figures, Unmarked graves, no accountability, decades of violence, draconion laws. Enough for anyone to guess what happens/happened in the so called integral part.
> .




Why you care those people ???? 

I think you care about only Indian muslims ???? Is this the case ???


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## Areesh

ares said:


> I am not sure where you learned Mathematics(guessing you might be suitable candidate for a full refund on your tuition fees)... but sure I would like believe you ..if you can back your claims(the numbers) with a legitimate source and necessary calculations.



Not in a mood to spoon feed you. Check the Kashmir War section of this forum. Or else living in USA you should have heard the name Google anyways. Try it.


----------



## KS

Areesh said:


> ..Helping children suffering with autism is noble indeed....



God helps those who helps themselves. Looks like you are doing exactly that...

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## Areesh

DRDO said:


> Why you care those people ????
> 
> I think you care about only Indian muslims ???? Is this the case ???



In this case 10 people killed by rioters. 2 rioters killed by forces. We support forces since they killed the miscreants.

---------- Post added at 01:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:28 AM ----------




KS said:


> God helps those who helps themselves. Looks like you are doing exactly that...



You also look desperate to support autistic children(or a child in this case). He would be feeling better now.


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## ChineseTiger1986

silko said:


> what my beautifull Turkistan has come to...
> 
> years after years of oppression and yet, nobody cares for you. what should i do, be sad or mad. to hard to choose, but be aware my Turkish brothers in the far east.
> 
> FREEDOM will one day come to you, just like it came to us!



There is no such thing as Turkistan, only Xinjiang.

Uyghurs are our compatriots, you guys are the Anatolian Turks, who are remotely related to them.

You think that we are Syria that you can mess with?

Try to tell to Russia to free the Tataria, then see what would happen to you.

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## fly2012

silko said:


> East Turkistan is the home of Uyghurs that has been occupied by China, no one can deny that.



What a silly claim. You know nothing about the area. There all kinds of local ethnic groups. Forget about Han for a moment, there're Kazaks, Mongolians, Xibo, Hui Muslims areas. Some of these people settled there much earlier than Uyghur's. During 2009's riot, these terrorist's slogan was "Kill all Hans and drive Kazaks to mountains". It is the exact fanatical view like yours that drives these people.

And please don't turn this into Turkey-China tension again. Chinese members usually refrain from bashing Turkey on Kurdish issues since we understand both countries face the similar challenge. Even when Uyghurs have much better rights in China. They have several of their TV stations in their own language and they don't have to learn Han language if they don't want in school. Do Kurds have the choice of not learning Turkish? How many TV stations do they have before 2009? 

There are ethnic tensions in a lot of countries, for developing countries like China, the problem is even more challenging. However, China's problem is always magnified by western countries. Turkey current sides with US so it doesn't get the spot light. But it doesn't mean that one should take double standards.

Uighur people have beautiful cultures that are widely appreciated and promoted in China. Here's a clip of songs in their ethnic concert, showing on channel 2 of their native language TV station. There're millions of Uighur singing and dancing videos on Youku, China's youtube. Such programs are common on TV all over China as well.

éå¸¸å¥½å¬çç»´å¾å°ææ­æ²ï¼å¦å¦ï¼ana - è§é¢ - ä¼é·è§é¢ - å¨çº¿è§ç

China won't give up Xinjiang, just like Turkey won't give up its eastern part. Could we just try to share some experiences with each other instead of throwing stones from glass houses?

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## Paan Singh

i love the way chinese deals with the terrorist or non state actors.This is what we have to learn or follow


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## ares

Areesh said:


> Not in a mood to spoon feed you. Check the Kashmir War section of this forum. Or else living in USA you should have heard the name Google anyways. Try it.



As predicted correctly, you are a suitable candidate for full refund on tuition fees(considering you have cleared school, though I have my doubts.)

"So basically you make an exaggerated claim, are not able back it up and hence decide to chicken out..by giving a weird 'google' refrence!!"


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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> In this case 10 people killed by rioters. 2 rioters killed by forces. We support forces since they killed the miscreants.




And what about those who killed those 10 people ???


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## Zabaniyah

Where the hell is Turkistan?


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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is no such thing as Turkistan, only Xinjiang.
> 
> Uyghurs are our compatriots, you guys are Anatolian Turks, who are remotely related to them.
> 
> You think that we are Syria that you can mess with?
> 
> Try to tell to Russia to free the Tataria, then see what would happen to you.



Uyghurs came from mongolia and they are not the original uyghurs, as for turks talking about Xinjiang why don't we start talking of the kurds fighting in Turkey ? no ? kurdistan maybe I know it will start flaming.


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## ChineseTiger1986

beta said:


> on the Topic
> 
> China should just end it's occupation of East Turkestan and Tibet.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------



Then i think India should be removed from the map.


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## Zabaniyah

beta said:


> on the Topic
> 
> *China should just end it's occupation of East Turkestan and Tibet.*



Really? An occupation? 

Would you like to ask your Russian buddies along with the Afghans to stop their 'occupation' of this um...'Turkestan'?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> Uyghurs came from mongolia and they are not the original uyghurs, as for turks talking about Xinjiang why don't we start talking of the kurds fighting in Turkey ? no ? kurdistan maybe I know it will start flaming.



Whether it is Turkey or India, anyone who wants to mess with us, we will ask them to be perished from this world.


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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Whether it is Turkey or India, anyone who wants to mess with us, we will ask them to be perished from this world.




Yeah I forgot Turkey Government sold out the Uighurs for Trade with us and it didn't go to well when Turkey said it was Genocide, if you know what I mean Armenian Genocide Or Support for Kurdistan and western Armenia ? . Through Uyghurs are still are brothers even if they dislike Huis and we dislike them back we have to work with them for a better future.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> Yeah I forgot Turkey Government sold out the Uighurs for Trade with us and it didn't go to well when Turkey said it was Genocide, if you know what I mean Armenian Genocide Or Support for Kurdistan and western Armenia ? . Through Uyghurs are still are brothers even if they dislike Huis and we dislike them back we have to work with them for a better future.



Uyghurs are our brothers, but the seperatist terrorists are our enemies. 

Next time, just shoot them in the head, no need to waste more energy.

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## ahfatzia

I call for Chinese government, and all governments of the world for that matter, to be stern and harsh when dealing with religious extremists. You have the duty for protect your citizens. You do what you must to eliminate them. They're not human beings. They are killers of the worst kind, for they kill their own kind too.

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## Paan Singh

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Uyghurs are our brothers, but the seperatist terrorists are our enemies.
> 
> Next time, just shoot them in the head, no need to waste more energy.



Dont make castles in air.

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## Sasquatch

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Uyghurs are our brothers, but the seperatist terrorists are our enemies.
> 
> Next time, just shoot them in the head, no need to waste more energy.



Exactly right have to work with them and root our terrorists for a better future, we as a nation have no time for terrorists or separatists.


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## Zabaniyah

beta said:


> No problem, you can edit the map.
> 
> *The point is that the so called autonomous regions in PRC are really occupied Nations.* if don't trust me, try integrating them completely as provinces (not as autonomous or semi autonomous regions)





beta said:


> *of course, they argue that they were earlier Han territories. Historical territories. *
> 
> if that's the case , then Britain can claim half the world.



You are a moron. 

Only fools choose to live in the past. And Britain did indeed rule nearly half of the world. You'd have to give them some respect. 

So by your logic, despite the various insurgencies seen in India, India is also occupying them? Is Kashmir occupied?

Would you say that Russia is occupying Chechnya? Or that Europeans are occupying Australia? Or that the Europeans are occupying the America? Should they just go away leaving everything behind and let the indigenous peoples live by themselves? 

I agree that excessive force was used and it is not uncommon even in India and other third world countries. This incident will just come and go. No need for any chest beating for freedom or nuclear war.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> Exactly right have to work with them and root our terrorists for a better future, we as a nation have no time for terrorists or separatists.



But the thing is getting a lot of better than pre-2009, now they start to understand that the only way to deal those terrorists is to shoot in the head.

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## ahfatzia

For those members that having orgasms with your keyboards here, let's be warn that some day you might be in the same shoes.

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## silko

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is no such thing as Turkistan, only Xinjiang.
> 
> Uyghurs are our compatriots, you guys are Anatolian Turks, who are remotely related to them.
> 
> You think that we are Syria that you can mess with?
> 
> Try to tell to Russia to free the Tataria, then see what would happen to you.



right, there isn't. but there was... untill communists occupied it and massacred and took the rights of uyghurs from their own land!


----------



## oceanx

beta said:


> ... just another black low caste Hindu converted confused Muslim ...



That's what you think of Bengalis?!

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## ChineseTiger1986

silko said:


> right, there isn't. but there was... untill communists occupied it and massacred and took the rights of uyghurs from their own land!



You wanna have your so-called East Turkistan, then the only solution is to defeat us militarily.

Can you do that? The Internet keyboard chest thumping doesn't count.


----------



## Sasquatch

silko said:


> right, there isn't. but there was... untill communists occupied it and massacred and took the rights of uyghurs from their own land!



Right like you do to Kurdistan or Western Armenia your ? Xinjiang has always been apart of China far before uyghurs came from mongolia and no they have rights same as everyone no one gets special favors, the difference is the East Turkmanstan Terror Group is going dead only thing they can back with is bombings and small riots while the Kurds to this day are fighting for Kurdistan 30,000 dead still fighting.

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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> Uyghurs came from mongolia and they are not the original uyghurs, as for turks talking about Xinjiang why don't we start talking of the kurds fighting in Turkey ? no ? kurdistan maybe I know it will start flaming.



please, do start a thread and show us the rights Uyghurs have and the rights the Kurds have? 

i would love to come and join and comment on it!


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## Paan Singh

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You wanna have your so-called East Turkistan, then the only solution is to defeat us militarily.
> 
> Can you do that? The Internet keyboard chestthumping doesn't count.



Biggest threat to any regime of country is its people power its bigger than military power


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## silko

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You wanna have your so-called East Turkistan, then the only solution is to defeat us militarily.
> 
> Can you do that? The Internet keyboard chest thumping doesn't count.



just goes to show that you ARE occupying their country, and have for years killed, massacred, denied them their rights and systematically watched them and killed their babies so they wont grow population wise!


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## ChineseTiger1986

ahfatzia said:


> For those members that having orgasms with your keyboards here, let's be warn that some day you might be in the same shoes.



Yeah, the so-called Free Tibet and Free Turkistan is idiotic.

If they want to do this, then the only way is to defeat China in WWIII.

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## fly2012

ARCHON said:


> [/COLOR]



People like you always amaze me. Demolishing old homes and move them to modern apartment is "Destroying their identity"? This happens all over China, in Beijing, Shanghai, etc I don't see you calling "Destroying Han identity". And besides only neighborhood in real bad shapes are demolished. A lot of traditional homes are preserved and it is still a major tourism attraction in Kashgar. 

And look at homes and tell me whether you want to live in it yourself. Oh, I see you are living in Europe. People are identified by their middle age adobes? Kashgar is in earthquake zone and with one earth quake all these people will perish. Do you care? You don't as long as it is China bashing and it makes you feel good. If an earthquake happens in the area, I bet you will be first to jump out and call it China's ignoring minority people or intentionally kill minority people. People like you already lose the ability to use your brains and simply dance under the Western media's magic wand.


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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> Right like you do to Kurdistan or Western Armenia your ? Xinjiang has always been apart of China far before uyghurs came from mongolia and no they have rights same as everyone no one gets special favors, the difference is the East Turkmanstan Terror Group is going dead only thing they can back with is bombings and small riots while the Kurds to this day are fighting for Kurdistan 30,000 dead still fighting.



hmm... i think you forget to mention that there never war a "western Armenia" and no don't go offtopic with the "poor kurds" remark. go open a new thread as i said and then i'll join and debate with you.

you cannot deny the horrors that the Uyghur population has had to go through during the communist mao's era and after that.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Prism said:


> Biggest threat to any regime of country is its people power its bigger than military power



Really?

Then can the US be overthrown by the Native Americans?

Can Russia be overthrown by the Native Siberians?


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## oceanx

silko said:


> please, do start a thread and show us the rights Uyghurs have and the rights the Kurds have?
> 
> i would love to come and join and comment on it!



In all seriousness, someone ought to do that so we can all learn something, while the knowledge will hopefully go toward the improvement of the lot of the down-trodden everywhere.

Hu can do it and you can do it, too, Silko.

I, OTOH, am not here often enough ...


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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> just goes to show that you ARE occupying their country, and have for years killed, massacred, denied them their rights and systematically watched them and killed their babies so they wont grow population wise!



You don't seem to see reality do you ? Xinjiang has been apart of China far before Uighurs ever came form mongolia and no they have rights just the same as everyone no special favors for anyone. Killing babies seems like something turkey would do with the Kurds after you occupation or kurdistan what is it 30,000 dead ? they are bombing turkey, capturing your soldiers and even today ? FYI your President also sold out the Uighurs for Trade with us.


----------



## Zabaniyah

beta said:


> By arguing this Point of Russia and Afghanistan, you are actually validating my point.



God, you are so genius  

Best of luck with your Russian buddies, mate. 



beta said:


> Anyway , you should at least sympathize with the people instead of looking for brownie points and an internet pat from your Chinese friends *who consider you just another black low caste Hindu converted confused Muslim to be used as balance in the region.*



Is that their perception or yours Mr. Indian?  And for your information, I have a Persian-mainland Indian heritage. And in fact I've grown up in Singapore, Japan and Thailand. And they didn't give damn about my heritage. 



beta said:


> They have already succeeded in buying off slaves in the western sub continent. don't just be another one of them.



Oh so at first you demonize China, and now you are complementing them(?)

Americans are now slaves of the Chinese. Yeah, we all believe you...



beta said:


> I can answer Kashmir and reasons for it be an Indian state. *I can even talk about Bangladesh in similar terms but that's for a different thread.*



Yeah, we know you funded the Shanti Bahini. And it failed miserably. 



beta said:


> but seriously .. Europeans are occupying Australia and America? really ? doesn't it even make sense? didn't they declare independence long ago even when they are the same people? are you that desperate to rationalize Chinese actions?



I guess someone has skipped history classes 



beta said:


> why so much fan boyism?



Fanboyism goes to you mate.

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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> hmm... i think you forget to mention that there never war a "western Armenia" and no don't go offtopic with the "poor kurds" remark. go open a new thread as i said and then i'll join and debate with you.
> 
> you cannot deny the horrors that the Uyghur population has had to go through during the communist mao's era and after that.



They are stilling looking into it. everyone went through suffering during the Maoist revolution even us muslim huis left our religion but came back to it we are fine in China today, Uighurs have the same rights as Huis but if you wann call for East Turkemanstan we can for a Kurdistan and Western Armenia.

Difference is East Turkmenistan terror group is going dead while the PKK and Kurds are still fighting in Turkey oh yeah your president also sold out the Uyghurs for Trade.


----------



## Paan Singh

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Really?
> 
> Then can the US be overthrown by the Native Americans?
> 
> Can Russia be overthrown by the Native Siberians?



you din't get my point..leave it aside.

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## shuttler

conworldus said:


> This Indian troll fest is comical. Let's wait for more details first.



these trolls all have an advanced syndrome of chosen dementia about the oppressed rebels in the eastern,central; and norhern part of their land

This is a hideous plot trying to create skirmishes in China so that it will be used as a bargaining chip against the Chinese Government and the aim is to weaken China's stance for Syria and Iran! The culprit of all these is a member of nato which is damn easy to locate!

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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> You don't seem to see reality do you ? Xinjiang has been apart of China far before Uighurs ever came form mongolia and no they have rights just the same as everyone no special favors for anyone. Killing babies seems like something turkey would do with the Kurds after you occupation or kurdistan what is it 30,000 dead ? they are bombing turkey, capturing your soldiers and even today ? FYI your President also sold out the Uighurs for Trade with us.



still going offtopic instead of opening a separate thread ehh? 

and no, we don't sell out Uyghurs. we just improve ties with China.


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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> still going offtopic instead of opening a separate thread ehh?
> 
> and no, we don't sell out Uyghurs. we just improve ties with China.



No off topic just giving you reality if you call for East Turkemanstan we call for a Kurdistan and Western Armenian happy ? yes you did your for trade.


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## fly2012

silko said:


> please, do start a thread and show us the rights Uyghurs have and the rights the Kurds have?
> 
> i would love to come and join and comment on it!



Could you please answer my question in my other reply?
1. Do Kurds have a choice of NOT learning Turkish in school?
2. How many TV stations do Kurdish people have, broadcasting in their own languages before 2009 when Erdogan call the riot a Chinese genocide?

Aren't language the most important thing to keep the culture?

And killing babies to reduce the population, my goodness. Even the most anti-China media doesn't have this kind of imagination, what drugs are you on? If Chinese air force attack Uighurs like Turkish air force did on Kurdish villagers, I am sure you will jump to moon and calling that ethnic cleansing.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Hu Songshan said:


> You don't seem to see reality do you ? Xinjiang has been apart of China far before Uighurs ever came form mongolia and no they have rights just the same as everyone no special favors for anyone. Killing babies seems like something turkey would do with the Kurds after you occupation or kurdistan what is it 30,000 dead ? they are bombing turkey, capturing your soldiers and even today ? FYI your President also sold out the Uighurs for Trade with us.



We are not hostile to Turkey, but if it wants to keep meddling into our business and steps our red line, then don't blame us for supporting Kurdistan.

China can create far more damages to Turkey than vice versa.

But we prefer to be nice with everyone, so they should also see the red line that they should not step on.

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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> No off topic just giving you reality if you call for East Turkemanstan we call for a Kurdistan and Western Armenian happy ? yes you did your for trade.



idiot, really an idiot. 

why are u going offtopic with your "west armenia" and "kurdistan" sentences? go open a new thread if you want to show support for them. which you dont even care about in reality. and believe BS lies that pkk says.

and no, improving ties doesn't mean selling someone out. in that case Chinas president have sold out the communist state by improving ties with oter democratic countries.


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## oceanx

beta said:


> not my words. I got them from Chinese net warriors and paid trollers on other forums.



What other forums, cared to point out a link?

Otherwise people might think not only you are a "castist", but also a coward ...

BTW, would you stand in the middle of the busiest streets in Dhaka and call the passersby what you just did? And when a "forum" gathers around you quickly, would you just say ... "uh, I heard it from some 'yellow' C........"?

At least be brave, beta. Just keyboards here.

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## Sasquatch

fly2012 said:


> Could you please answer my question in my other reply?
> 1. Do Kurds have a choice of NOT learning Turkish in school?
> 2. How many TV stations do Kurdish people have, broadcasting in their own languages before 2009 when Erdogan call the riot a Chinese genocide?
> 
> Aren't language the most important thing to keep the culture?
> 
> And killing babies to reduce the population, my goodness. Even the most anti-China media doesn't have this kind of imagination, what drugs are you on? If Chinese air force attack Uighurs like Turkish air force did on Kurdish villagers, I am sure you will jump to moon and calling that ethnic cleansing.



Not to mention we never used chemical weapons on the Uighurs like Turkey did on the Kurds. we also never sent our airforce to bomb the East Turkmenistan terror groups hideouts in Afghanistan like Turkey does repeatedly bombing Iraqi kurdistan without warning.

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## silko

fly2012 said:


> Could you please answer my question in my other reply?
> 1. Do Kurds have a choice of NOT learning Turkish in school?
> 2. How many TV stations do Kurdish people have, broadcasting in their own languages before 2009 when Erdogan call the riot a Chinese genocide?
> 
> Aren't language the most important thing to keep the culture?
> 
> And killing babies to reduce the population, my goodness. Even the most anti-China media doesn't have this kind of imagination, what drugs are you on? If Chinese air force attack Uighurs like Turkish air force did on Kurdish villagers, I am sure you will jump to moon and calling that ethnic cleansing.



open a new thread about the rights of Kurds and i will happily answer it there, not here where the topic is Uyghurs.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We are not hostile to Turkey, but if it wants to keep meddling into our business and steps our red line, then don't blame us for supporting Kurdistan.



like u never meddle in other peoples business! mr perfect China.


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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> idiot, really an idiot.
> 
> why are u going offtopic with your "west armenia" and "kurdistan" sentences? go open a new thread if you want to show support for them. which you dont even care about in reality. and believe BS lies that pkk says.
> 
> and no, improving ties doesn't mean selling someone out. in that case Chinas president have sold out the communist state by improving ties with oter democratic countries.



Again Name calling ? why not if you Call for East Turkmanstan built off terror we should do the same for Kurdistan and help Armenia with it's western half. what a dumb delusion person you are we are not communist, more of socialist/capitalist. the difference is you sold out the uighurs for trade.

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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> open a new thread about the rights of Kurds and i will happily answer it there, not here where the topic is Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> like u never meddle in other peoples business! mr perfect China.



Never turkeys your president call genocide on us when you yourself committed genocide and to this day you still deny it we could recognized the Armenian genocide and support kurds but we don't. he later sold out the Uighurs for trade.


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## ahfatzia

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, the so-called Free Tibet and Free Turkistan is idiotic.
> 
> If they want to do this, then the only way is to defeat China in WWIII.




Not only that, they also have to enlist their grand parents, parents, sisters and brothers. and put every one in the front lines. Bring your keyboards too BIG MOUTHS!


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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> Not to mention we never used chemical weapons on the Uighurs like Turkey did on the Kurds. we also never sent our airforce to bomb the East Turkmenistan terror groups hideouts in Afghanistan like Turkey does repeatedly bombing Iraqi kurdistan without warning.



Turkey doesn't use chemical weapons on Kurds, it was saddam who used it. 

and yes Turkey do warn before bombing areas, have sen't warning to Iran, Iraq and KRG.

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## fly2012

beta said:


> false logic.
> 
> They, so called han people, decided their fate themselves after so many civil wars until the emergence of CPC-PRC.
> You can choose your fate. You have no right to choose Tibet or Turkestan's fate. They ll choose that for themselves. Don't be Imperialists while all day long crying about west being evil imperialists and china fighting them and ****.



Last time I checked India is also a multi-ethnic country, so who is deciding who's fate?

Since you won't bother to check anyway, let me just give this information, Kashgar's mayor, Mehmet Emin Bekri is an ethnic Uighur. I imagine then you will say: "But wait, the president of China is a Han so the mayor doesn't have a say!". Sometimes you just cannot win a debate.


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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> Turkey doesn't use chemical weapons on Kurds, it was saddam who used it.
> 
> and yes Turkey do warn before bombing areas, have sen't warning to Iran, Iraq and KRG.



Your wrong on that both Saddam and you did I leave it at that. we respect our uighurs to the point where we won't use our airforce to bomb them like you do the Kurds. they are still our brothers and we will overcome and cooperate with them


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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> Never turkeys your president call genocide on us when you yourself committed genocide and to this day you still deny it we could recognized the Armenian genocide and support kurds but we don't.



i'm done debating with you, as it doesn't seem like you have any logical brain. 

go recognize it. what are you waiting for, go go go! even support poor kurds who only want a country, go go go. 

and that you have a mind that improving ties means "selling someone out" shows that you are a idiot!

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## Zabaniyah

silko said:


> idiot, really an idiot.
> 
> why are u going offtopic with your "west armenia" and "kurdistan" sentences? go open a new thread if you want to show support for them. which you dont even care about in reality. and believe BS lies that pkk says.
> 
> and no, improving ties doesn't mean selling someone out. in that case Chinas president have sold out the communist state by improving ties with oter democratic countries.



See below:



silko said:


> what my beautifull Turkistan has come to...
> 
> years after years of oppression and yet, nobody cares for you. what should i do, be sad or mad. to hard to choose, but be aware my Turkish brothers in the far east.
> 
> FREEDOM will one day come to you, just like it came to us!



Well, you did call for this um...'Turkistan' (where ever that is) in the first place. 

Peace of advise: Try not to compare the problems in the Middle East to the problems in Asia. Not only is it naive, but it is ridiculous. And most importantly, Turkey does not have its very own nukes and the means to deliver them. So much for a bargaining chip against China. Not even nuclear armed India easily go against China.

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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> i'm done debating with you, as it doesn't seem like you have any logical brain.
> 
> go recognize it. what are you waiting for, go go go! even support poor kurds who only want a country, go go go.
> 
> and that you have a mind that improving ties means "selling someone out" shows that you are a idiot!



You yourself don't seem to have a logical brain you were calling for East Turkemanstan over a few riots so why shouldn't we call for a Kurdistan for almost 30 years of war between the Kurds and Turkey 30,000 dead ? 

Actually you did sell out Over Sea's Uighurs wanted Turkey Pressure us but your president did not and sold out for trade

http://atimes.com/atimes/China/MA19Ad02.html

---------- Post added at 05:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 AM ----------




Zabaniya said:


> See below:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you did call for this um...'Turkistan' (where ever that is) in the first place.
> 
> Peace of advise: Try not to compare the problems in the Middle East to the problems in Asia. Not only is it naive, but it is ridiculous. And most importantly, Turkey does not have its very own nukes and the means to deliver them. So much for a bargaining chip against China. Not even nuclear armed India easily go against China.



Exactly he himself started it and we came back and now he feels hurt.

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## Sasquatch

beta said:


> They deiced it themselves. why ask stupid questions.
> 
> i am not the one arguing stupid points. Just have the balls to accept that China is occupying Tibet and Turkestan holding a nuclear armed army against the world. Don't bring in russia and others to validate things.



We are not occupying the World Recognizes Tibet and Xinjiang apart of our country the UN does India does, if you feel so strongly against it pick up a gun and come here.


----------



## Sasquatch

beta said:


> Chinese nation according to Chinese people here on the forum and CPC.
> 
> Any Land that has ever come under the control of anyone that's related to Mongolian, Manchurian, Han, Tibetan kingdoms/empires in recorded history.
> 
> 
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> You pleaded everyone in the world for that recognition for years except the actual people there. Almost no brainier.
> 
> well, i raped but enough people agreed not to care about the crime. what a great view.



They are Chinese Citizens, even the lama himself wished it to remain apart of china why don't you ask how many groups that don't feel indian remain apart of your country like Kashmir ? and when the next Dalai Lama comes


----------



## Alpery

fly2012 said:


> Could you please answer my question in my other reply?
> 1. Do Kurds have a choice of NOT learning Turkish in school?
> 2. How many TV stations do Kurdish people have, broadcasting in their own languages before 2009 when Erdogan call the riot a Chinese genocide?
> 
> Aren't language the most important thing to keep the culture?
> 
> And killing babies to reduce the population, my goodness. Even the most anti-China media doesn't have this kind of imagination, what drugs are you on? If Chinese air force attack Uighurs like Turkish air force did on Kurdish villagers, I am sure you will jump to moon and calling that ethnic cleansing.


its up to your citizenship agreement...and system of state..
Turkiye has unitary system.. There is only one official language..like USA, GB...
your slogan is "peoples brothership" ...

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## Sasquatch

beta said:


> I am ok with Lama's stance. But your CPC should just stop the imposing things on the people. If you can peacefully resolve the Tibet issue with guaranteeing autonomy and stop robbing resources, may be Lama's position is good after all.



Actually we have and unlike other groups Tibetans are not affected by the One Child Policy and FYI the waters of Tibet go mostly to Indian then China.


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## Alpery

Hu Songshan said:


> Not to mention we never used chemical weapons on the Uighurs like Turkey did on the Kurds. we also never sent our airforce to bomb the East Turkmenistan terror groups hideouts in Afghanistan like Turkey does repeatedly bombing Iraqi kurdistan without warning.


dont lie..idiot..who used chemical weapons

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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> You yourself don't seem to have a logical brain you were calling for East Turkemanstan over a few riots so why shouldn't we call for a Kurdistan for almost 30 years of war between the Kurds and Turkey 30,000 dead ?



more like pkk and Turkey... pkk is just like you guys communist low lifers who have nothing else to do than spreading stupid false idiotic "free kurdistan" propaganda. go see for yourself the amount of kurds that want their own homecountry go do some research open a NEW THREAD! and then discuss, or are you scared your stupid claims isn't truth. 



Zabaniya said:


> Well, you did call for this um...'Turkistan' (where ever that is) in the first place.
> 
> Peace of advise: Try not to compare the problems in the Middle East to the problems in Asia. Not only is it naive, but it is ridiculous. And most importantly, Turkey does not have its very own nukes and the means to deliver them. So much for a bargaining chip against China. Not even nuclear armed India easily go against China.



can't see what is wrong here? instead of writing xixnijibxhhufd, or whatever it is i just choose to say Turkistan. since that is what i refere to it as.

and yes, there has been a Turkistan. Chinese communists occupied it and tortured, killed, forced abortion etc. to the population. 

no one is talking about Turkey vs China here. just that stupid hu guy. who keeps denying that Uyghurs have for decades been stolen their right, have been under strict controll, can't travell freely etc. 

that u want to support this is a bit sad. it is prooven that mao did a lot of crimes to the Uyghurs so he could have a China Str00o0ong!!11!1!111!!1

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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> more like pkk and Turkey... pkk is just like you guys communist low lifers who have nothing else to do than spreading stupid false idiotic "free kurdistan" propaganda. go see for yourself the amount of kurds that want their own homecountry go do some research open a NEW THREAD! and then discuss, or are you scared your stupid claims isn't truth.
> 
> 
> 
> can't see what is wrong here? instead of writing xixnijibxhhufd, or whatever it is i just choose to say Turkistan. since that is what i refere to it as.



Seems more like the Kurds in all of the Middle East and they succeeded in Iraq and the PKK is still very much intent. what you post is mostly stupid and you call me scared now.

Why not if you call for Turkistan independence shouldn't we say that for Kurdistan and the kurds that have been fighting you for almost 30 years I mean really I using your logic and your crying foul on it, you can dish it but not take it.

---------- Post added at 05:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:47 AM ----------




beta said:


> i am talking about other resources not just water.
> Freedom of speech
> Religious freedom
> Censorship issues
> End of Policies like migrations for main landers in to Tibet.
> 
> if those things are guaranteed, may be we can talk about water issues like adults.



We have the same policies for everyone, so no special rule for Tibetans however since they have been committing suicide we promised more freedom and no China is open to all it's citizen Tibetans can come to anywhere and they have been coming to Shanghai and Beijing, Yunnan. Tibetans themselves are still the majority make up 93 % of the population in the region.


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## Alpery

Hu Songshan said:


> Never turkeys your president call genocide on us when you yourself committed genocide and to this day you still deny it we could recognized the Armenian genocide and support kurds but we don't. he later sold out the Uighurs for trade.


you could recognize the Armenian genocide..because you like lying

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## Sasquatch

Alpery said:


> you could recognize the Armenian genocide..because you like lying



We don't because we don't want to meddle with Turkish affairs and it doesn't seem like a lie since most of Turkey's western friends seem to recognize it. but it's your affair and we don't mess with it unlike some 

---------- Post added at 05:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 AM ----------




Andross said:


> Tibet and Eastern Turkistan were invaded by the Hans and now hans are moving in there and make the locals a minority



Xinjiang and Tibet have more then han in them Hui's, Kazakhs, Krgyz even russians. no Tibetans still make 93 % and same with Uighurs till majority and not affected by the One child policy so they can breed as much as they like.


----------



## Sasquatch

Alpery said:


> dont lie..idiot..who used chemical weapons



You did.


----------



## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> Seems more like the Kurds in all of the Middle East and they succeeded in Iraq and the PKK is still very much intent. what you post is mostly stupid and you call me scared now.
> 
> Why not if you call for Turkistan independence shouldn't we say that for Kurdistan and the kurds that have been fighting you for almost 30 years I mean really I using your logic and your crying foul on it, you can dish it but not take it.



FFS how stupid and idiot can you be. we are not fighting Kurds, if we where they would have long be gone from Turkey, we are fighting pkk communist scumbags who doesn't represent Kurds at all. tell me then, why pkk kills Kurds who they fight for? you know nothing about Kurds and Turks and the ongoing war against pkk yet you like to talk like you're an expert.

if you where to use my logic you would see the difference between Kurds and Turkistan. they didn't succeed in Iraq. you talk about independent Kurdistan, who wants that, how many Kurds want that, show me some numbers and then talk.

there was NEVER a kurdistan, but there was a Turkistan that China did occupy.



Hu Songshan said:


> You did.



any links and credible sources saying Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurds?

why i even continue deating with you after all this idiotic claims by you.

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## Sasquatch

beta said:


> who do you think you are to give them their freedom? do we look like Chinese to buy that non sense from you? promised freedom because of suicides .. my ***...
> 
> Tibetians did not ask you to let them in to your cities. you occupied the land and later acting like you are entitled to rule them? are they your slaves that you decide how much freedom they can be granted?
> 
> Pathetic people, you are.



We allowed it to be more open suicide yes they infact are burning themselves no one is doing it but them. 

And we didn't ask them to come in there's the land. Our land overall people of china. We rule the country and everyone is entitled to go where they live. you seem pretty pathetic but this is reality you can accept or if you feel pick up a gun and come here.

---------- Post added at 05:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:57 AM ----------




Andross said:


> Since you annexed Tibet and Xinjiang millions of hans have moved in causing problems why are u trying to increase han population in those areas?



Actually we are not I'm not han myself Xinjiang was apart of China long before Communist revolution use a text book and tibetans themselves can breed as much as they like unlike the han we have the one child policy.


----------



## fly2012

silko said:


> still going offtopic instead of opening a separate thread ehh?
> 
> and no, we don't sell out Uyghurs. we just improve ties with China.



If you really want to improve ties with China, and want to improve Uyghur people's social status, please first stop calling "East Turkistan" and "Free XXX", it clearly step in the red zone and would only back fire and encourage hardliners in China, which won't do any good to Uyghur people. Let's face it, China would never bent on foreign pressures and in practice won't cede territories, just like any other country. Saying "China still have a lot of room to improve on ethnic policies and practice and Turkey can share our experience with China" will be a much better start.


----------



## gpit

Invincible INDIAN said:


> RIP to the freedom fighters!!!




Last time the freedom fighters raided your hotel in Mumbai.

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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> FFS how stupid and idiot can you be. we are not fighting Kurds, if we where they would have long be gone from Turkey, we are fighting pkk communist scumbags who doesn't represent Kurds at all. tell me then, why pkk kills Kurds who they fight for? you know nothing about Kurds and Turks and the ongoing war against pkk yet you like to talk like you're an expert.
> 
> if you where to use my logic you would see the difference between Kurds and Turkistan. they didn't succeed in Iraq. you talk about independent Kurdistan, who wants that, how many Kurds want that, show me some numbers and then talk.
> 
> there was NEVER a kurdistan, but there was a Turkistan that China did occupy.
> 
> 
> 
> any links and credible sources saying Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurds?
> 
> why i even continue deating with you after all this idiotic claims by you.



Seriously you stupidity is really showing. you are majority of them support the PKK. I'm using your logical and it seems we are fighting extermists in Xinjiang that bomb and cause ethic tensions ? No ? if there were no problem between the Kurds and Turks the war with is still going there goal is a Kurdistan and they got it.

Actually they did succeed in Kurdistan similar and follow the path of south sudan. actually Kurdistan happened in Iraq now they are waiting for the Turkish area, Turkistan was never it's name Xinjiang and far before the Uyghurs ever lived there. we didn't occupy it, was apart of the country far before the communist even got power. your government doesn't even recognize it but pan turks and they did sell out for trade.


Shocking Images of Dead Kurdish Fighters: Turkey Accused of Using Chemical Weapons against PKK - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish PKK rebels: IHD
'Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons' - JPost - International


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## conworldus

These Indians make me sick. I really feel like rooting for another Mumbai massacre right now.

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## fly2012

silko said:


> there was NEVER a kurdistan, but there was a Turkistan that China did occupy.



Find me a modern official map made after 1700, made by any country, showing so called East Turkistan as an independent country?

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## Sasquatch

beta said:


> it doesn't matter you #%^&%. It's about why you people get to decide about their lives. You CPC backing Chinese are more pathetic than i thought you were. almost brainless idiots licking cpc's boots. learn some self respect and respect of other people's liberties.
> 
> Yes, may be you people do need stick approach, rather than talks.



LMAFO seriously such an angry person. if you feel so mad about come here. otherwise you got noting to offer.


----------



## Sasquatch

Andross said:


> But Hans are 90% of the people in China so they are already more in numbers having 1 child makes no diffrence if millions of hans move to tibet and Xinjiang it will lead to more trouble



Hans don't live much in Tibet the Tibetans are still the majority there over 93 % and the reason why is the Tibetans don't have the skills for many of the Jobs to develop the region same with Xinjiang thats why Hui's, Hans go there and the Han movement to Tibet and Xinjiang has been slowed down in the past couple of years.


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## fly2012

Alpery said:


> its up to your citizenship agreement...and system of state..
> Turkiye has unitary system.. There is only one official language..like USA, GB...
> your slogan is "peoples brothership" ...



And isn't that funny that these countries call China cultural genocide??? And last year when Tibetan students protest based on the rumor that Tibetan schools will use Mandarin to teach physics and chemistry, there were international uproars saying China is doing cultural genocide. Why cannot China enforce just ONE official language?

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## Sasquatch

conworldus said:


> These Indians make me sick. I really feel like rooting for another Mumbai massacre right now.



If we used that logical then many Terror Groups we would be rooting for. Condone terrorism for the East Turkestan terror movement but not for other groups.


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## Sasquatch

Andross said:


> The proportion of the non-Tibetan population in Tibet is disputed. On the one hand, the Central Tibetan Administration of the Dalai Lama, accuses China of actively swamping Tibet with migrants in order to alter Tibet's demographic makeup.[80] On the other hand, according to the 2010 Chinese census ethnic Tibetans comprise 90% of a total population of 3 million in the Tibet Autonomous Region.[81] Exact population numbers probably depend on how temporary migrants are counted.
> 
> 
> Nobody knows the actual figures in China of how many Hans live there



The official source is there are far more Tibetans then any other group in Tibet then the Hui's, Hans, Krygzs if we wanted to make Tibetans a Minority we would have done it years age.


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## silko

fly2012 said:


> If you really want to improve ties with China, and want to improve Uyghur people's social status, please first stop calling "East Turkistan" and "Free XXX", it clearly step in the red zone and would only back fire and encourage hardliners in China, which won't do any good to Uyghur people. Let's face it, China would never bent on foreign pressures and in practice won't cede territories, just like any other country. Saying "China still have a lot of room to improve on ethnic policies and practice and Turkey can share our experience with China" will be a much better start.



well, unlike a certain person here i dont go around and say "freedom for Turkistan". i say that it was occupied by China. nothing wrong with that, that is the truth.

i rather want to call it Turkistan rather than the other one wich i cant the name of it is something xinpingding something i dont know. easier to say Turkistan. 

what i try to say is, why this dude doesn't want to accept the atrocities the Communist China did against Uyghur people in the past and has done until recently?

improving ties means that you sellout a certain group? what do you expect me to answer an idiot like that with?

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## Alpery

Hu Songshan said:


> Seriously you stupidity is really showing. you are majority of them support the PKK. I'm using your logical and it seems we are fighting extermists in Xinjiang that bomb and cause ethic tensions ? No ? if there were no problem between the Kurds and Turks the war with is still going there goal is a Kurdistan and they got it.
> 
> Actually they did succeed in Kurdistan similar and follow the path of south sudan. actually Kurdistan happened in Iraq now they are waiting for the Turkish area, Turkistan was never it's name Xinjiang and far before the Uyghurs ever lived there. we didn't occupy it, was apart of the country far before the communist even got power. your government doesn't even recognize it but pan turks and they did sell out for trade.
> 
> 
> Shocking Images of Dead Kurdish Fighters: Turkey Accused of Using Chemical Weapons against PKK - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
> Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish PKK rebels: IHD
> 'Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons' - JPost - International


did you read the article carefully what you linked
'PKK Propaganda'

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## gpit

DRDO said:


> People talk to much about India
> 
> Now where is muslim brotherhood
> 
> Can Pakistani government and Pakistani people protest about it even on internet ????



Stop implicitely labeling all muslim with terrorist activities! What's your problem with muslim?

Back to topic, why so many Indians are so gleeful in this unfortunate event in China? 

See how they jump up and down in such an ecstasy?

Don't forget your India is a murder capital of the world. rediff.com: India is the murder capital of the world

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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> Shocking Images of Dead Kurdish Fighters: Turkey Accused of Using Chemical Weapons against PKK - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
> Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish PKK rebels: IHD
> 'Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons' - JPost - International



"accused" hmm.... "spiegel" hmm... okay you know what instead of making an argument against a dumb person i'll just join him.

i want you to forget what i wrote when i said reliable sources. not accusations! 

free kurdistan kurds have succeeded turks are barbarians blah blah blah blah and turkey is evil and turkey is devil and turkey is zionist and blah blah blah and turkey kills innocent kurds and china is the paradise and blah blah blah!


----------



## Sasquatch

silko said:


> well, unlike a certain person here i dont go around and say "freedom for Turkistan". i say that it was occupied by China. nothing wrong with that, that is the truth.
> 
> i rather want to call it Turkistan rather than the other one wich i cant the name of it is something xinpingding something i dont know. easier to say Turkistan.
> 
> what i try to say is, why this dude doesn't want to accept the atrocities the Communist China did against Uyghur people in the past and has done until recently?
> 
> improving ties means that you sellout a certain group? what do you expect me to answer an idiot like that with?



It was apart of China long before the Communists ever got there use a textbook please learn history.

We say Northern Kurdistan or Turkish occupied Kurdistan it's the same as what you are trying to say.

actually I have against my own Hui people as well as many others in the past, there are no atrocities against the uighurs but themselves they cause Riots and Kidnappings and Bombings your ignoring this fact as well.

Yes you have again name calling with an idiot that doesn't know a thing sacrificing for trade.

---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------




Alpery said:


> did you read the article carefully what you linked
> 'PKK Propaganda'



Denying western sources as well ?

---------- Post added at 06:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------




silko said:


> "accused" hmm.... "spiegel" hmm... okay you know what instead of making an argument against a dumb person i'll just join him.
> 
> i want you to forget what i wrote when i said reliable sources. not accusations!
> 
> free kurdistan kurds have succeeded turks are barbarians blah blah blah blah and turkey is evil and turkey is devil and turkey is zionist and blah blah blah and turkey kills innocent kurds and china is the paradise and blah blah blah!



You yourself don't need to accept the reality but others do idiot. we never called our country Paradise however the same BS and Zionist things anyway already have discussed pretty much everyone on this thread I'm leaving it to the mods to clean up.

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## silko

Hu Songshan said:


> It was apart of China long before the Communists ever got there use a textbook please learn history.
> 
> We say Northern Kurdistan or Turkish occupied Kurdistan it's the same as what you are trying to say.
> 
> actually I have against my own Hui people as well as many others in the past, there are no atrocities against the uighurs but themselves they cause Riots and Kidnappings and Bombings your ignoring this fact as well.
> 
> Yes you have again name calling with an idiot that doesn't know a thing sacrificing for trade.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Denying western sources as well ?



you are so right china is the paradise of the world kurds are being slaughtered long life a free kurdistan wich turks oppress. i agree with you dude, poor kurds never had a country and now fighting for it. 

north kurdistan long live etc... blah blah blah and more stupid propaganda! 

spiegel is known for being correct and everything they say is true. if they say china oppress turkistan it is true to!


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## Sasquatch

fly2012 said:


> And isn't that funny that these countries call China cultural genocide??? And last year when Tibetan students protest based on the rumor that Tibetan schools will use Mandarin to teach physics and chemistry, there were international uproars saying China is doing cultural genocide. Why cannot China enforce just ONE official language?



Exactly the Point the one sided view they see. anyway I'm done with this leaving it to the mods.

---------- Post added at 06:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 AM ----------




silko said:


> you are so right china is the paradise of the world kurds are being slaughtered long life a free kurdistan wich turks oppress. i agree with you dude, poor kurds never had a country and now fighting for it.
> 
> north kurdistan long live etc... blah blah blah and more stupid propaganda!



Again putting words in my mouth I never used paradise you yourself on the other hand have, stateless people. Anyway I'm reported to the mods and leaving this up to them. including your posts. and yes they are fighting you.


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## silko

okay man you are right china is a paradise and this and that okay we get it. just stop posting... you win. i dont want to post every 2 seconds confirming that china is best!!1!111!1111 and that turkey sucks. i get it know.

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## Sasquatch

silko said:


> okay man you are right china is a paradise and this and that okay we get it. just stop posting... you win. i dont want to post every 2 seconds confirming that china is best!!1!111!1111 and that turkey sucks. i get it know.



No one said china was the best on this thread and no one said turkey sucks you on the other hand have seriously the amount of trolling leaving it up to the mods. you yourself are saying most of the things you are accusing us of.

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## Alpery

Hu Songshan said:


> It was apart of China long before the Communists ever got there use a textbook please learn history.
> 
> We say Northern Kurdistan or Turkish occupied Kurdistan it's the same as what you are trying to say.
> 
> actually I have against my own Hui people as well as many others in the past, there are no atrocities against the uighurs but themselves they cause Riots and Kidnappings and Bombings your ignoring this fact as well.
> 
> Yes you have again name calling with an idiot that doesn't know a thing sacrificing for trade.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Denying western sources as well ?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:17 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> You yourself don't need to accept the reality but others do idiot. we never called our country Paradise however the same BS and Zionist things anyway already have discussed pretty much everyone on this thread I'm leaving it to the mods to clean up.



read again and again what I wrote....you can understand....yes you can...within few hours

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## Aridhaman

RIP to the innocent.

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## sanddy

China jails 20 Uighur-Muslims on terrorism, separatism charges in Xinjiang | DAWN.COM






BEIJING: Courts in Chinas restive far western region of Xinjiang have jailed 20 people for up to 15 years on charges of terrorism and separatism, state media said on Thursday, as the heavily Muslim area marks the fasting month of Ramazan. The three courts in the cities of Urumqi,
Kashgar and Aksu also leveled
charges of making explosive devices,
promoting religious extremism and
plotting holy war, Communist Party
mouthpiece the Peoples Daily said on its website (ÈËÃñÍø). While it did not give the ethnicity of
those sentenced, judging from their
names they were all Uighurs, a Muslim
Turkic-speaking people who call
Xinjiang home, many of whom chafe at
Beijings rule and restrictions on their religion and culture. A vast amount of evidence shows
that the accused criminals carried out a
lot of preparatory work in planning
violent terror activities and set up a
formal terror organisation, the report
said. They bought, produced and copied
mobile transmitters, discs and
publications which promoted
separatism, religious extremism and
violent terror and proactively spread
them around, it added. Some members of the terror
organisation made explosives and
carried out test explosions. China blamed violence in Xinjiang 
strategically located on the borders of
Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and
Central Asia  on Islamic separatists
who want to establish an independent
state of East Turkestan. Some Chinese officials have blamed
attacks on Muslim militants trained in
Pakistan. But many rights groups say China
overstates the threat to justify its tight
grip on the region. Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the exiled
World Uyghur Congress, said the
government had politicised the case
and used terrorism as an excuse to
punish Uighurs who dont agree with
the system. The aim is to terrorise Uighurs into
abandoning their rights, he said in an
emailed statement. Beijing has shown no sign of relaxing
its control in Xinjiang, a vast swathe of
territory accounting for one-sixth of
Chinas land mass which holds rich oil,
gas and coal deposits. In July 2009, regional capital Urumqi
was rocked by violence between
majority Han Chinese and minority
Uighurs that killed nearly 200 people. Since the unrest, China has turned its
attention to boosting development in
Xinjiang and providing greater job
opportunities, especially for Uighurs,
to try to address some of the root
causes of the violence.

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## LvpAK

India,Listen to the northeastern people, They wanna free.

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## IZVINITE

Keeping on doing the Good Work...


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## Marxist

sanddy said:


> China jails 20 Uighur-Muslims on terrorism, separatism charges in Xinjiang | DAWN.COM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIJING: Courts in Chinas restive far western region of Xinjiang have jailed 20 people for up to 15 years on charges of terrorism and separatism, state media said on Thursday, as the heavily Muslim area marks the fasting month of Ramazan. The three courts in the cities of Urumqi,
> Kashgar and Aksu also leveled
> charges of making explosive devices,
> promoting religious extremism and
> plotting holy war, Communist Party
> mouthpiece the Peoples Daily said on its website (ÈËÃñÍø). While it did not give the ethnicity of
> those sentenced, judging from their
> names they were all Uighurs, a Muslim
> Turkic-speaking people who call
> Xinjiang home, many of whom chafe at
> Beijings rule and restrictions on their religion and culture. *A vast amount of evidence shows
> that the accused criminals carried out a
> lot of preparatory work in planning
> violent terror activities and set up a
> formal terror organisation*, the report
> said. They bought, produced and copied
> mobile transmitters, discs and
> publications which promoted
> separatism, religious extremism and
> violent terror and proactively spread
> them around, it added. *Some members of the terror
> organisation made explosives and
> carried out test explosions.* China blamed violence in Xinjiang 
> strategically located on the borders of
> Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and
> Central Asia  on Islamic separatists
> who want to establish an independent
> state of East Turkestan. Some Chinese officials have blamed
> attacks on Muslim militants trained in
> Pakistan. But many rights groups say China
> overstates the threat to justify its tight
> grip on the region. Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the exiled
> World Uyghur Congress, said the
> government had politicised the case
> and used terrorism as an excuse to
> punish Uighurs who dont agree with
> the system. The aim is to terrorise Uighurs into
> abandoning their rights, he said in an
> emailed statement. Beijing has shown no sign of relaxing
> its control in Xinjiang, a vast swathe of
> territory accounting for one-sixth of
> Chinas land mass which holds rich oil,
> gas and coal deposits. In July 2009, regional capital Urumqi
> was rocked by violence between
> majority Han Chinese and minority
> Uighurs that killed nearly 200 people. Since the unrest, China has turned its
> attention to boosting development in
> Xinjiang and providing greater job
> opportunities, especially for Uighurs,
> to try to address some of the root
> causes of the violence.


 
Bold part shows that , those arrested where involved in anti national activities ,and the authorities took the correct action


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## Bhairava




----------



## Dark Warrior

LvpAK said:


> India,Listen to the northeastern people, They wanna free.


China,listen to the Tibetan people,They wanna free.

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## ChennaiDude

LvpAK said:


> India,Listen to the northeastern people, They wanna free.



The NorthEast of India is Tibet....We are working on it.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

Dark Warrior said:


> China,listen to the Tibetan people,They wanna free.



Uyghurs and Inner Mongolian wanna free too.

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## oct605032048

&#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;;3259235 said:


> Uyghurs and Inner Mongolian wanna free too.



lol. Our Mongolian Vice FM Fu Ying has just kicked your !@#$ off in Cambodia's ASEAN summit.


----------



## &#272;&#7843;o B&#7841;ch Long V&#7929;

oct605032048 said:


> lol. Our Mongolian Vice FM Fu Ying has just kicked your !@#$ off in Cambodia's ASEAN summit.



Nah, it's just your Cambodian vassals, they listen to your command then try to break the solidarity of ASEAN.
And what's the problem if there is a Mongolian in your gov? Foreigner-born in one's gov happens a lot. Vice Chancellor of Germany, Philipp Roesler, is Vietnamese. So what?

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## Lenin

http://m.timesofindia.com/business/...n-the-region/articleshow/16607877.cmsBEIJING: China's Xinjiang province, which borders Pakistan, wants investment by Indian companies and tourists from India tovisit the recreated version of the ancient Silk Road. Leaders from Xinjiang conveyed this to Indian ambassador S Jaishankar who visited the province, including its border towns Kashgar and Hotan.
"There is a cultural cache for India in the region. I feel Xinjiang leaders at all levels want to do business with India because it isa big economy," Jaishankar said after meeting local leaders, including Xinjiang governor Nur Bekri.
Indian officials and industry captains have kept away from the Xinjiang Autonomous Region as they believe the region is more connected to Pakistan and Central Asia, and would be less receptive to India. Indian Businessmen from India ignored invitations to attend the recent Euroasia conference in Urumqi.
Local leaders were encouraged by a recent investment by Kochi's Synthite Industrial Chemicals in project in Korla. State-run companies in Xinjiang are keen to invest in India's infrastructure sector, Jaishankar said.

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## KRAIT

Good move by China. 

Xinjiang is having troubles for many years but not that severe and Indian companies moving there will be a welcome sign in India-China relationship. China should provide security to Indian companies if they decide to incest in this province.

This also paints the picture of Indian companies extension in various countries, against the belief of people in other countries that India doesn't produce quality product.

China has huge number of skilled technical institutes which churns out many skilled worker. Chinese people are one of the most hard working people and investment in China can produce more profit for Indian companies. Increase employment will certainly help in dial down extremism which is need of hour for not only China but also for India and Pakistan.

These inter-linkages in economic front with Indian profits and Chinese people employment can certainly help in resolving our disputes even if plays a small part in it.

Another major factor is that India has been a huge market for China, now being based in China, Indian companies can produce cheap yet quality products for its huge market too.

Healthy competition at economic front is very much needed. If both the govt.s make policies favoring such investment in each other countries, it not only increase quality of local industries, employment and boost to economy, it will also help in creating an economic zone.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I know that this is old new, it was interesting brainstorming of bring Bohai water into Xinjiang, knowing that it was not possible, but how about Tibet, it was consider the third pole of the world with mountain of fresh water, we can meld and divert it to Tarim basic to revive the death desert land into agricuture, those ghost city such loulan.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

&#27004;&#20848;&#21476;&#22478;, 

china should work to recover every single inch of desert land back.


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## Kaniska

Wow...planning to bring water from East cost to West of China....it would have been remarkable acheivement for China and its people..At least your scientist have thought about and give it a try , itself is a commendable job...I hope in near furture your engineers will be able to do similar kind of miracle.

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## shuttler

Have they scrapped the whole project or something new is going on in there!

I think it is a logical and scientific idea! 

But of course need to know about the detail before jumping onto a conclusion to say that is "dumb" or "brilliant"!


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Once we can map in detail of China topography, we then can plan a safe road to bring sea water into Xinjiang, I certainly dont want to give up the hope for curent obstacle, maybe for now technologically it is to costly to piecing the mountain or dig under ground canal all the way to Xinjiang but future will alway reserve some new technology that we can exploite to meet this goald. 

If we're able to bring unlimite sea water to Xinjiang, with the natural cycle of the rain to filter out the salt..eventual over several years we will be able to recover all the lost desert land gradually.



Kaniska said:


> Wow...planning to bring water from East cost to West of China....it would have been remarkable acheivement for China and its people..At least your scientist have thought about and give it a try , itself is a commendable job...I hope in near furture your engineers will be able to do similar kind of miracle.



If we're able to bring Sea water into Xinjiang to fill up any death lake, all our Uygur brothers and sisters don't need to go far to admire sea water, we will be able to attract all central Asians people to come enjoy beach vacation in Tarim basin...the impact of development will beyond imagination.

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## Snomannen

I wish the Taklamakan Desert will someday become Taklamakan Grassland.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

China water map, there must be a better way to bring some water to Taklamakan from Tibet.


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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

The idea was too far fetched to begin with. brainstorm, brainstorm...
Giant fans to blow clouds over the desert and then launch silver iodide crystals to induce rain....
Interplanetary ships harvest ice from other planets and bring back the water....
Giant dome over the desert to hold in moisture....
pipe in sea water in a really, really, really long pipe and flood the desert with salt water.....


On a serious note,
To stop the encroaching desert, durable plant life is needed to hold the topsoil together. Why not send people on death row to work 364 days of the year, every year planting and fighting the blight? This way, they dont have to die and at the same time get to redeem themselves in a worthwhile way.


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## Echo_419

no_name said:


> There's a limit to what even china can do.
> Guess they just have to go for the slow approach, plant more pine trees and fight the desert.



No there is no kidding 

Aside from this even thinking & planning for such a large project is an achievement
Hope we learn from you in this context

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## Sasquatch

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> China water map, there must be a better way to bring some water to Taklamakan from Tibet.





If I remember there was talk of diverting water from Tibet to Xinjiang from the Yarlung .
Planting more trees in Xinjiang similar to the Gobi project is always an option it would help the environment and possible water from Tibet.


----------



## shuttler

Sixty years ago the forest coverage of China was 8%. Through some effective policies, tremendous industry, hardship and heroism as demonstrated by a lot of brilliant People in China, the present forest coverage is 20%.

The Phoenix TV started a program &#12298;&#31359;&#36234;&#39118;&#27801;&#24102;&#12299;"through the sandy line" tracking the efforts of those brilliant individuals and villages 12 years ago on their arduous tasks in tackling the encroachment of massive desertification along the most hostile terrains and deserts of &#12298;&#19977;&#21271;&#39118;&#27801;&#24102;&#12299;&#8220;the northern sandy belt". 

Early in 2012, they &#65288;Phoenix TV&#65289; revisited the same route and with the assistance of the State Forestry Administration, PRC. During the project which lasted for a year, they have captured and showed them frame by frame some amazing development of the dry deadly deserts into luxuriant lively grassland and forests in the weekly program &#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;&#65288;da di xunmeng). The last episode of the show completed its broadcast on Dec 29, 2012.







Here is a synosis of the TV project &#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;&#65288;da di xunmeng) from Baidu:



> &#20964;&#20976;&#21355;&#35270;&#20013;&#25991;&#21488;&#31574;&#21010;&#20026;&#26399;&#19968;&#24180;&#30340;&#19987;&#39064;&#32426;&#24405;&#29255;&#33410;&#30446;&#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;&#65292;&#26412;&#29255;&#23558;&#22260;&#32469;&#20013;&#22269;&#26519;&#19994;&#20960;&#21313;&#24180;&#26469;&#30340;&#21457;&#23637;&#21382;&#31243;&#65292;&#20197;&#21313;&#24180;&#21069;&#32426;&#24405;&#29255;&#12298;&#31359;&#36234;&#39118;&#27801;&#32447;&#12299;&#20026;&#22522;&#30784;&#65292;&#29992;&#38236;&#22836;&#35760;&#24405;&#20013;&#22269;&#26862;&#26519;&#12289;&#27827;&#27969;&#12289;&#27801;&#28448;&#29615;&#22659;&#29616;&#29366;&#12290;&#20964;&#20976;&#21355;&#35270;&#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;&#20026;&#24744;&#35299;&#35835;&#26862;&#26519;&#20043;&#28304;&#65292;&#25506;&#35752;&#27665;&#26063;&#25991;&#21270;&#22797;&#20852;&#30340;&#22823;&#22320;&#20043;&#36335;&#12290;
> &#36825;&#26159;&#19968;&#20221;&#34892;&#36208;&#20013;&#22269;&#65292;&#20851;&#27880;&#26862;&#26519;&#29616;&#29366;&#30340;&#23665;&#27700;&#26723;&#26696;&#12290;&#36825;&#26159;&#19968;&#37096;&#24605;&#32771;&#20154;&#31867;&#29983;&#23384;&#29366;&#24577;&#30340;&#35686;&#31034;&#24405;&#12290;&#36825;&#26159;&#19968;&#37096;&#23665;&#23450;&#26435;&#65292;&#26641;&#23450;&#26681;&#65292;&#20154;&#23450;&#24515;&#65292;&#26519;&#19994;&#25913;&#38761;&#30340;&#32511;&#30382;&#20070;&#12290;&#36825;&#26159;&#19968;&#37096;&#35760;&#36733;&#26519;&#19994;&#32844;&#24037;&#20445;&#25252;&#26862;&#26519;&#30340;&#36131;&#20219;&#29366;&#12290;&#20964;&#20976;&#21355;&#35270;&#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;&#24102;&#24744;&#30452;&#20987;&#20013;&#22269;&#29615;&#22659;&#29616;&#29366;&#12290;
> &#20197;&#20013;&#22269;&#29256;&#22270;&#19968;&#27178;&#19968;&#32437;&#20026;&#22352;&#26631;&#65292;&#23558;&#38236;&#22836;&#35302;&#21450;&#21040;&#20013;&#22269;&#26862;&#26519;&#19982;&#20065;&#26449;&#12290;&#20174;&#21335;&#20013;&#22269;&#28392;&#28023;&#23665;&#26519;&#30340;&#26519;&#25913;&#21040;&#21271;&#37096;&#30340;&#27801;&#28448;&#27835;&#29702;&#8212;&#8212;&#20964;&#20976;&#21355;&#35270;2012&#24180;&#20877;&#27425;&#20986;&#21457;&#65292;&#37325;&#36208;&#39118;&#27801;&#32447;&#65292;&#20851;&#27880;&#26519;&#25913;&#65292;&#20851;&#27880;&#20013;&#22269;&#65306;&#22823;&#26862;&#26519;&#65292;&#20320;&#22909;&#21527;&#65311;
> 
> Phoenix Chinese Channel planning a year's feature documentary program "land of dreams", the film will focus on the course of development in China for decades forestry Ten years ago the documentary "through the sandy line" basis, used the camera to record the Chinese forestrivers, the desert state of the environment. Phoenix, "land of dreams" for your interpretation of the source of the forest, the to explore national cultural revival Earth Road.
> This is a walking, concerned about the landscape of the forest status file. This is a warning recorded in thinking about the state of human existence. This is a mountain given the right to be the root tree, one centering, Forestry Reform Green Paper. This is a record like the responsibility for forestry workers to the protection of forests. Phoenix, "land of dreams" Watch China's environmental situation.
> Chinese territory of one horizontal and one vertical coordinates of the lens touched the forests and villages. Forest tenure reform from the coastal mountains of southern China to the northern desert governance - Phoenix TV again starting in 2012, and re-take the sand line concern of forestry reform, concerned about China: large forest, how are you?
> 
> &#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;Baidu
> 
> Google translation



The first episode debuted on January 6 and the next espisodes ran up to Feb 2012:

&#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;The first episode on January 6 to Feb 2012

Click on the date of the program which you are interested in viewing:

ifeng.com&#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299;*Feb 18 to Jun 02, 2012*

ifeng.com*&#12298;&#22823;&#22320;&#23547;&#26790;&#12299; From Jun 09 to Dec 29, 2012*

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## shuttler

Here is a heroine &#27575;&#29577;&#29645; Yin yuzhen. She and her family turn an area of 100 Tiananmen Sqs of desert in Inner Mongolia &#65288;&#27611;&#20044;&#33487;&#27801;&#28448; Maowusu desert&#65289; into an oasis of productive farmland in over 20 years' time&#65288;since 1986&#65289;:

Here is her story: (Though in Putonghua, it is a rather self explanatory vid)

[&#27969;&#34892;&#26080;&#38480;]&#27575;&#29577;&#29645; &#35753;&#27801;&#28448;&#21464;&#32511;&#27954;(20111030)


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## northeast

test


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## Kolaps

Water diversion from Bohai to Xinjiang is possible in the future.


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## beijingwalker

Tibetan plateau is one of the biggest water reservoirs in the world and that region is the original source of many Asian big rivers,all China need to do is to divert some rivers from Tibet to Xinjiang,that'll be much easier due to the proximity of those two provinces.



> Tibetan plateau is, in indeed, water-rich and is Asia's principal watershed. It is the source of about dozen major rivers, including the Yarlung Tsangpo (or Brahmaputra), Sutlej and Indus. Countries like China, India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Pakistan, Thailand, Myanmar, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam depend on the waters of the rivers flowing from the &#8220;rooftop of the world&#8221;. Thus, *about half of world&#8217;s population is supported by the Tibetan glaciers. *But the heat of global warming is threatening the well being of glaciers sustaining the rivers there.





> The Tibetan Plateau &#8211; a source for Asia&#8217;s Rivers


----------



## beijingwalker

*Diversion rivers in China: moving water from Tibet to Xinjiang*



> The zeal for engineering China&#8217;s rivers continues unabated among hydrologists. But will the latest proposal &#8211; to move water from Tibet to Xinjiang





> Chinese scientists have dreamed up yet another mega engineering scheme: to divert water from Tibet&#8217;s Yarlung Zangbo River, along a course that follows the Tibet-Qinghai railway line to Golmud, through the Gansu Corridor and, finally, to Xinjiang, in north-west China.
> 
> The man behind the proposal is Wang Guangqian, an academic at the Chinese Academy of Sciences and director of Tsinghua University&#8217;s State Key Laboratory of Hydroscience and Engineering. Although the Ministry of Water Resources has not given its support to the scheme, Wang insists it is &#8220;feasible&#8221;.
> 
> On June 3, *Wang revealed that the authorities are considering a water-diversion plan for western China.* He told reporters that, the previous day, Li Ruihuan &#8211; former member of the standing committee of the Political Bureau and chair of the Chinese People&#8217;s Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) &#8211; had gathered Wang and others together to give and listen to presentations on the proposal.* He said that everyone there was in agreement: &#8220;It is time for a water-diversion project in western China.&#8221;*
> 
> It has previously been suggested that such *a project could move 200 billion cubic metres of water a year &#8211; the equivalent of four Yellow Rivers.* It would require core project finance of more than 200 billion yuan (US$30.9 billion) and be &#8220;an unprecedented undertaking in the history of the Chinese people.&#8221;
> 
> As to why it&#8217;s necessary, Wang explained that water usage has dramatically increased as a result of social and economic development on the lower reaches of the Yangtze River and Yellow River. Climate change and other factors are driving desertification, while water coming from the upper reaches of those rivers is decreasing (for more information on threats to the quality and supply of water in this region posed by factors including glacier-melt in the Himalayas, see chinadialogue&#8217;s report &#8220;The Waters of the Third Pole: Sources of Threat, Sources of Survival&#8221. A survey by the Cold and Arid Regions Environmental and Engineering Institute found that, since the 1980s, the quantity of water flowing from the Yellow River above the city of Lanzhou, in north-western China, has fallen by an average of 13% a year. In 2002, it dropped 46%.
> 
> In addition, grain-growing regions such as Henan in central China and Xinjiang in the north-west rely on large quantities of groundwater. To date, almost all major cities in a region bounded by Harbin to the north, Urumqi to the north-west, Shanghai to the east and Haikou to the south, have experienced subsidence due to groundwater extraction. &#8220;There&#8217;s no way that situation is sustainable,&#8221; said Wang. &#8220;But there is still potential to exploit the more plentiful water resources of the south-west.&#8221;
> 
> Figures from the Chinese Academy of Sciences show that rivers on the Qinghai-Tibet and Yunnan-Guizhou plateaus, including the Yarlung Zangbo, Nu and Lancang, *carry between 637 billion cubic metres and 810 billion cubic metres of water out of China each year. *Because little of the water in these rivers is used within China&#8217;s borders, most of it flows on to India and south-east Asia &#8211; where they become the Brahmaputra, Salween and Mekong, respectively.
> 
> Wang&#8217;s proposal is distinct from the South-North Water Transfer Project, another mega infrastructure scheme approved by the State Council in December 2002. Under that plan, a &#8220;western route&#8221; would &#8220;bring water from the Tongtian, Yalong and Dadu tributaries of the upper Yangtze to the Yellow River,&#8221; in order to relieve water shortages in the regions of Qinghai, Gansu and Ningxia.
> 
> However, I understand from the State Council&#8217;s South-North Water Transfer project office that, so far, no concrete plans have been formulated for the western route. Speaking at a party meeting on May 13, the head of that office, E Jingping, said: &#8220;There is currently a significant gap between preliminary work being done on the project and actual requirements. In particular, much more work is needed to explain the necessity, importance and feasibility of the project in the context of national sustainable development.&#8221;
> 
> Wang Guangqian stated that the idea for his proposal &#8211; dubbed the Major Western Route &#8211; came from independent water-resources expert Guo Kai, and has many supporters. *&#8220;Everybody gets really excited when they hear about it,&#8221; *he said.
> 
> Guo Kai told me the project name was originally chosen to distinguish the scheme from the western route of the South-North Water Transfer project. He came up with the idea as early as 1990: take 201 billion cubic metres of water every year from the Yarlung Zangbo, divert it through the Nu, Nancang, Jinsha, Yalong and Dadu rivers, over the Aba watershed and into the Yellow River. Guo believes this project would not only ease water shortages in the north of China, but also *transform desert landscapes, increase farmland, provide power and create jobs.*
> 
> *&#8220;It would only take five to eight years to build,* and cost 225 billion yuan [US$34.7 billion] in 1997 terms,&#8221; Guo said, adding that the Yarlung Zangbo, Nu River and Lancang River are capable of providing some 380 billion cubic metres of water annually &#8211; more than enough to cover the 206 billion cubic metres required each year by the project.
> 
> Zhao Nanqi, former CPPCC vice-chair, is a keen advocate of Guo&#8217;s idea. &#8220;Guo Kai&#8217;s proposal for the Major Western Route has given us inspiration and hope,&#8221; he said.
> 
> China&#8217;s 12th Five-Year Plan, released in March, includes improving the movement of water resources between north and south and east and west, and between rivers and reservoirs, building cross-basin water-diversion projects and improving access to water both in the north and the south.
> 
> Several different water-diversion projects for the west of China are under discussion. Besides the two plans outlined above, former member of the Yangtze River Commission Lin Yishan has proposed a &#8220;Major Western Route Water Diversion&#8221;; Chen Chuanyou of the Chinese Academy of Sciences&#8217; Natural Resources Institute has put forward the &#8220;Tibetan Water for the North&#8221; scheme, while the Guiyang Hydropower Investigation Research and Design Institute is investigating its own &#8220;Major Western Route&#8221;. *The list goes on. All of these aim to move large quantities of water from the Qinghai-Tibet plateau to the west and north of China.*
> 
> Wang Guangqian&#8217;s team is understood to be working with the South-North Water Transfer office to organise a feasibility study of their proposal.
> 
> Li Ling, author of Tibet&#8217;s Water Will Save China, has long been following these proposals. He said that the Institute of Advanced Technology at the Chinese Academy of Sciences is using supercomputers and data modelling to simulate the Major Western Route and evaluate its feasibility.
> 
> &#8220;National leaders only decided to go ahead with the Three Gorges Dam and projects on the Irtysh River, Ili River and Tarim River after seeing data-modelling and three-dimensional imaging that demonstrated their feasibility,&#8221; explained Li. He added that an initial simulation of the proposal has already been produced in Shenzhen, south China, but limitations in the data used to create it means it cannot be made public.
> 
> *Li believes that the technological and engineering experience gained from constructing the Qinghai-Tibet railway &#8211; which involved challenges such as building on permafrost and working for many years in low-oxygen environments and environmentally vulnerable regions &#8211; will help to solve many of the problems presented by the Major Western Route. Building the railway cost 2 billion yuan (US$308 million) in environmental protection alone.*
> 
> &#8220;*If you can successfully build a railway between 4,500 metres and 5,072 metres above sea level, building the Major Western Route at 3,588 metres to 3,366 metres is not going to be a problem,&#8221; said Li. *





> *The Tibetan Plateau &#8211; a source for Asia&#8217;s Rivers*

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## INDIC

@beijingwalker Indus is shown as Satluj and Satluj is shown as Indus in the map.


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## beijingwalker

Once the project finished ,the Takla Makan Desert and Tarim Basin will become vast grassland even forest,that'll be a huge boon to Xinjiang as well as whole China.

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## Khitan21

This will definitely greatly benefit China on the long term, especially since the harsh terrains of western China and the dry Northeast will be more livable which can allow China's population to spread out more, instead of just congesting in Central China and the East coast. 

Any information on when the project commence?

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## beijingwalker

Khitan21 said:


> This will definitely greatly benefit China on the long term, especially since the harsh terrains of western China and the dry Northeast will be more livable which can allow China's population to spread out more, instead of just congesting in Central China and the East coast.
> 
> Any information on when the project commence?



It's still just a plan,cause if we really do it,that may cause huge drought in some part of India and south eastern Asian countries,which can lead to big famine there.and also it may be considered as military provacation.



> When China dammed the Mekong, the largest river flowing into Southeast Asia, Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos all called for greater cooperation to prevent droughts and floods. China also plans a dam in Tibet on the Yarlung Zangbo, the highest major river in the world, which flows into India as the Brahmaputra.
> 
> *The project would give Beijing control of the water supply to more than 90,000 sq km of land controlled by India while China claims sovereignty*.


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## beijingwalker

Damming is jus to control the amount of the flow,but diversion of the rivers means completely cut them off and make them flow somewhere else,that'll have a dramatic impact on the regions downstream.


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## beijingwalker

That's why many experts say that Tibet is the lifeline of Asian countries


> Catriona Luke: China Will Have Mastery of Asia's Water Tap by 2020


 whoever controls the faucet of Asia controls the future.Turning it off amounts to nuclear attack if not worse.


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## Yogi

beijingwalker said:


> Damming is jus to control the amount of the flow,but diversion of the rivers means completely cut them off and make them flow somewhere else,that'll have a dramatic impact on the regions downstream.



true, it may not have much impact on India bcoz that area receives one of the highest rainfall in the world n its not a densely populated area but it will definitely have drastic impact on BD as its like ur cutting their 50% water supply 

Besides diversion of such a important river will be against International Law...

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## beijingwalker

We've already got a lot of bombardment before we even start



> *Dammed Tibet - Extracting Wealth and Power from the World&#8217;s Biggest Water Tank*
> Wed, January 16, 2013 | By: Hank Pellissier
> Did China conquer the Himalayan theocracy to &#8220;liberate the peasants&#8221;? No. Was it lust for Tibet&#8217;s agricultural land? No, only 0.3% is arable. Minerals? Getting closer. *What&#8217;s critically valuable on the &#8220;roof of the world&#8221;? Three syllables: H20*
> 
> *Tibet has more freshwater - aka &#8220;blue gold&#8221; - than any place on the planet, except the North and South Poles. Averaging 11,000 feet in altitude, Tibet contains 1,000 lakes and an enormous freezer of snow in the sky-scraping Himalayas. Melted, it&#8217;s the wellspring for seven monstrous rivers: the Yangtze, the Yellow, the Indus, the Mekong, the Ganges, the Brahmaputra, and the Salween.*
> 
> Rivers are the critical life-blood of humanity, essential for hydration, irrigation, and industry. *Possession of Tibet gives China a stranglehold on the arteries of South Asia, where nearly 2 billion people reside in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Laos, and Burma.*
> 
> *Mega-dams are easily built by China - they constructed the world&#8217;s largest at Three Rivers Gorge. They&#8217;ve erected a staggering 28,500 large dams, and 80,000 total, *the most in the world. Hydropower is the initial intent of Chinese dams in the Himalayas (90% of rural Tibet will have electricity by 2015), but water diversion is tempting for the thirsty population of 1.3 billon. Although China has 20% of the world&#8217;s population, it&#8217;s only got 7% of the fresh water supply.
> 
> Thirteen provinces of China have suffered drought since 2010 and vast regions are habitually parched, like the sprawling Xinjiang in the northwest. Could pipelines from Tibet lead to faucets in distant reaches of the Middle Kingdom? Li Ling, author of Tibet&#8217;s Water Will Save China, believes it is essential for China&#8217;s future.
> 
> Michael Buckley - producer of the &#8220;Meltdown in Tibet&#8221; documentary - notes that, &#8220;*60% of Chinese leadership&#8230; have an engineering background and many have vested interests in damming companies.*&#8221; What are their intentions? India Today reports that &#8220;the dragons&#8221; are &#8220;gung-ho on [the] $62 billion South-North Water Transfer Project. It aims to divert 44.8 billion cubic meter water per year from southern China to the Yellow River basin in arid northern China.&#8221; Several different water-diversion projects are under discussion.
> 
> Below is a brief report on five major &#8220;international rivers&#8221; that have headwaters in Tibet:
> 
> Indus River - In 2009, British journalist Alice Albina - author of Empires of the Indus - discovered that China was secretly building a huge dam on an Indus tributary, at Senge-Ali, in Western Tibet. This caused only a tiny flap in the extremely tight relationship between the two nations. Two years later, China&#8217;s Three Gorges Project Corporation proposed a $15 billion plan to Pakistan, on Pakistani soil, that would block the Indus River at numerous points. The dams would control the devastating floods that regularly wash through Pakistan, and they&#8217;d provide much-needed hydroelectricity, enabling Pakistan to develop its gas, oil, and coal resources. The generosity of the Chinese offer typifies the alliance - China is Pakistan&#8217;s biggest arms supplier, third-largest trad*ing partner, it supported Pakistan&#8217;s war against India in 1965, and it assists Pakistan&#8217;s civilian nuclear program. All this frustrates and alarms India, of course. Will the dams on the Indus give China leverage over Pakistan, if their coziness ever sours? 92% of Pakistan is is dependent on the Indus River system, with 50% of its population employed in agriculture.
> 
> Mekong River - The Mekong is the longest river in SE Asia, winding 4,880 kilometers to the South China Sea. China is building eight dams here - the first, at Manwan, was constructed without consulting neighbors downstream. 60 million people depend on the river for food; particularly at risk are fish stocks in Cambodia&#8217;s huge Tonle Sap lake, and the rice bowl of Vietnam&#8217;s Mekong Delta. China&#8217;s fourth Mekong dam, at Xiaowan, is the world&#8217;s tallest at 292 meters. The Mekong is also the second-most bio-diverse river on the planet, trailing only the Amazon. 781 species of freshwater fish paddle here, including a giant catfish that can grow to be as long as a car.
> 
> 
> 
> Ganges River - Tibet provides major tributaries for the Ganges, the world&#8217;s most densely populated riverine area. Revered as &#8220;Mother Ganges&#8221; in India, it is even more important to Bangladesh, where it enters the Bay of Bengal in the world&#8217;s largest delta. Two-thirds of all Bangladeshis farm and fish here on the fertile floodplains. Presently, there are only two dams on the Ganges, both in India. Any construction by China that sabotaged the flow of this holy-but-horribly-polluted river would be greeted with downstream wrath.
> 
> Salween River - This 2,815 kilometers long river flows through China, Burma and Thailand into the Andaman Sea. Called the Nu (&#8220;Angry River&#8221 in Mandarin, this swift, beautiful watercourse traverses a &#8220;Grand Canyon of the Orient&#8221; that is 4,500 meters deep. A United Nations assessment described its region as &#8216;maybe the most biologically diverse temperate eco-system in the world&#8217; with 80 endangered species, including snow leopards and snub-nosed monkeys. When China announced 13 dams would be constructed on the Salween, vigorous campaigning by Chinese activists resulted, amazing because opposition to Beijing often ends in jail sentences. China is also helping its ally Burma build dams in its northern regions; these constructions are vilified because they threaten ethnic tribes like the Shan and Karenni. Salween Watch
> 
> Brahmaputra River - Last but most important is the Brahmaputra, named after the Hindu god of creation. China - after vigorous denials for a more than a decade - intends to build 28 dams on the Brahmaputra, to the consternation of India and Bangladesh. Chinese designs include the utilization of &#8220;peaceful nuclear explosions&#8221; and constructing a station with 2X the hydro-power of Three Gorges Dam. One proposal aims to transport Brahmanputra water from Shuomatan, Tibet, to the city of Tianjin on China&#8217;s northeast coast via a &#8220;Shuotian Canal.&#8221; Boosters believe this would solve China&#8217;s demand for more water, electricity, grain and oil, and alleviate pollution. But&#8230; would it impact downstream flow to India, which relies on the river for 30% of its freshwater? China offers assurances, but Indian concern is justified.





Icewolf said:


> I SUPPORT MAKING INDIA & BD A DESERT
> 
> GO CHINA!!!



No,we definitely won't.there are many small rivers and lakes we can use in Tibet,we don't like to be branded as a global villain


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## beijingwalker

Gigawatt said:


> China will divert Indus, good for both of you.



We won't do that,there are many other choices for China in Tibet.and China diverts water to Xinjaing with the intention of helping local people,not hurting downstream people.so all future pojects will be done based on this principle.Tibet is big enough to give everyone their share of water.


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## beijingwalker

Yogi said:


> true, it may not have much impact on India



It still can cause huge flood in rainy season and drought in dry season.



> The Great Dam of China will endanger millions of Indian lives
> PK Vasudeva | Agency: DNA | Thursday, June 23, 2011


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## Sanchez

The Himalaya waters could be roughly devided into two waters, one runs down eastwards to Chinese provinces, and the other flows down southwards to India and Burma. The water diversion project must have been on the table for at least 20 years. It meant to divert the eastern waters mainly into Gansu plateau. However the cost/benefit issues and environmental risks are not completely determined. I personally hope that it would never happen.


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## beijingwalker

Sanchez said:


> The Himalaya waters could be roughly devided into two waters, one runs down eastwards to Chinese provinces, and the other flows down southwards to India and Burma. The water diversion project must have been on the table for at least 20 years. It meant to divert the eastern waters mainly into Gansu plateau. However the cost/benefit issues and environmental risks are not completely determined. I personally hope that it would never happen.



with modern technology and engineering,it won't take that long.


> &#8220;It would only take five to eight years to build, and cost 225 billion yuan [US$34.7 billion]


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## Yogi

beijingwalker said:


> It still can cause huge flood in rainy season and drought in dry season.



lets be practical China cannot divert the whole of the river but lets say it diverted a significant amount of water but how will that result in floods u genius...

Brahmaputra keep flooding now n then in rainy season but less water would mean less or no floods even in rainy season n bcoz of heavy rainfall droughts cannot happen. But such a move will affect the routine life, animals n plantation.

In such a situation India will retain most of the water it'll have but ur this move will definitely convert half of BD into a waste land...

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Yogi said:


> lets be practical China cannot divert the whole of the river but lets say it diverted a significant amount of water but how will that result in floods u genius...
> 
> Brahmaputra keep flooding now n then in rainy season but less water would mean less or no floods even in rainy season n bcoz of heavy rainfall droughts cannot happen. But such a move will affect the routine life, animals n plantation.
> 
> In such a situation India will retain most of the water it'll have but ur this move will definitely convert half of BD into a waste land...



As my previous video, India Inter link river will make BD waste land eventually soon or later, as the Indian guys on video said,"it can't flood by It can dry"...so might as well to dry India north eastern section.


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## Yogi

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> As my previous video, India Inter link river will make BD waste land eventually soon or later, as the Indian guys on video said,"it can't flood by It can dry"...so might as well to dry India north eastern section.



Indian water linking project is reality n it won't turn BD into a wasteland but may reduce its annual water supplies while ur project is a pipe dream n will remain same in fore foreseeable future...

n if it ever try to come near reality then BD will definitely turn into wasteland.

PS- As far as droughts r concerned in NE
Cherrapunji - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sasquatch

*Stick to the topic please, and don't troll I have given several members infractions next time it is a ban. *


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## kalu_miah

Tibet is the great water tower of Asia:

The Water Tower Function of the Tibetan Autonomous Region « FutureWater

Many downstream countries depend on this regional water. No individual country has the unilateral right to management of this water. Unless this water is managed with the whole region in mind, it will create ecological and humanitarian disasters.

Indian river linking project and water diversion to Xinjiang both need to address regional concerns before getting go ahead from national govt.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

kalu_miah said:


> Tibet is the great water tower of Asia:
> 
> The Water Tower Function of the Tibetan Autonomous Region « FutureWater
> 
> Many downstream countries depend on this regional water. No individual country has the unilateral right to management of this water. Unless this water is managed with the whole region in mind, it will create ecological and humanitarian disasters.
> 
> Indian river linking project and water diversion to Xinjiang both need to address regional concerns before getting go ahead from national govt.



I fully agree..this is just an Idea, still a very long way to get approved. Even if China want to divert some water from Tibet, it should chose the ones that is not affect downstream such India, BD or the rest. Maybe create artificial canal with nuclear plan to melt those icy snow is also an Idea.


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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I fully agree..this is just an Idea, still a very long way to get approved. Even if China want to divert some water from Tibet, it should chose the ones that is not affect downstream such India, BD or the rest. Maybe create artificial canal with nuclear plan to melt those icy snow is also an Idea.



Don't you think melting the ice will harm the ecosystem. For India only concern is Brahmaputra river although North-East India recieve highest rainfall in the world very suitable for growing Tea.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Don't you think melting the ice will harm the ecosystem. For India only concern is Brahmaputra river although North-East India recieve highest rainfall in the world very suitable for growing Tea.



How it could harm the ecosystem when we take icy snow from those rocky mountains? as long as we manage to get any water that is not affecting downstream...we're OK.


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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> How it could harm the ecosystem when we take icy snow from those rocky mountains? as long as we manage to get any water that is not affecting downstream...we're OK.



Melting ice will ruin the ecosystem, world already worried about vanishing glaciers. Only possible way is to divert some water


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## kalu_miah

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I fully agree..this is just an Idea, still a very long way to get approved. Even if China want to divert some water from Tibet, it should chose the ones that is not affect downstream such India, BD or the rest. Maybe create artificial canal with nuclear plan to melt those icy snow is also an Idea.



Good to hear such sentiments. But the reality on the ground is that dams are being built and it is already affecting flow of existing rivers at sources in Tibet.

Regional rivers that is shared by many nations should be managed by multiple nations that share that river. Unilateral management like India has been doing since its birth in 1947 has already contributed to ecological disasters (desertification, rising Arsenic level etc.) and economic hardship in Bangladesh:
.:: International Farakka Committee ::.
.:: International Farakka Committee ::.

This is one reason I promote regionalism. In Asia, we need regional management of Asian resources. Asian regional effort for conflict management and resource sharing will be very important for the future of the region to avoid hostile moves by bigger nations, specially to protect interest of smaller nations.

Melting ice artificially is not an option. Glaciers are already melting due to global warming and they are getting smaller and smaller at higher elevations. Glaciers and high elevation ice is the only reservoir of water that keeps water flowing in the dry season. Once they are gone due to global warming, it will just be huge flow of water in the rainy season and not much in the rest of the seasons. What this means is that there will be bigger floods in the wet season and leaner rivers in the dry season.

I think it is possible to build reservoir in the higher elevations between mountains and control the flow of rivers, so it can be beneficial for all downstream countries, if projects are taken up as regional efforts. Even if glaciers are gone, there is enough snow and rain fall in Tibet and Himalayan foot hills for all downstream populations. If it can be stored properly, floods can be controlled and some diversions may also be possible, after existing downstream flow concerns are met.

The key is multilateral regional efforts and regionalism, rather than unilateral national efforts.

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## DV RULES

The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is the western edge of China (Xinjiang means the new frontier in Chinese). It borders on Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Mongolia and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. 9 million Uyghurs (Sunni Muslims) make up 45% of the total population of the Region. From time to time protests hit the streets calling for independence from China. The USA has a role to play here, it defends the separatists on international scene. The Uygur culture or rights dont mean anything for Washington, but the Region enjoys strategically important geographic position being situated in the heart of Eurasia which is viewed as an area of its vital interests by the United States. 

For the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union the Xinjiang Uygur Region was an area where its interests conflicted with Great Britain. The region provided access to India. Today there is a conflict of interests with the United States, which finds it important strategically to deny Russia and China an access the Indian Ocean. 

Establishing control over the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region means getting a springboard for US penetration into the heartland of Eurasia. For instance, the geographic position of Kazakhstan makes it kind of a buffer zone against the Islamic radicalism coming from Afghanistan. Crossing the Kazakh territory, radicals would get to Russia (Kazakhstan borders on Astrakhan, Chelyabinsk, Saratov, Volgograd, Novosibirsk, Omsk and Tyumen regions of the Russian Federation). Muslim Bashkiria and Tatarstan are in the vicinity. While the USSR contained the spread of Islamic extremism, having tightly closed the southern border, Kazakhstan and Western Siberia remained parts of the Soviet Union. It has all changed by now. The US intervention into Afghanistan has exacerbated the situation near the southern part of Russia. In case the US gets a foothold in the Xinjiang Uygur Region, the things will exponentially worsen, there are many Uyghurs living in Central Asia (250000 in Kazakhstan, 60000 in Kyrgyzstan, 50000 in Uzbekistan etc).

The Region is rich in oil and gas, as well as rare-earth metals. There are 52 minerals extracted there. Its an important trade and transportation hub, an economic center of western China. The Chinese commodities cross its territory to get transported to the Pakistani port of Karachi and then to South Asia. Pakistan and China are strategic allies, the destabilization of Xinjiang would hinder the flow of goods from Islamabad to Beijing. The Chinese law enforcement agencies report there are people on the wanted list in Pakistan among the dead Uyghur separatists. At that Beijing does its best to have good relations with Islamabad (1).

There is a major telecommunications project under construction - the Trans-Asia-Europe Fiber Optic Line, which is to connect Shanghai, China and Frankfurt, Germany passing through the Region (2). Oil and gas flows from the Caspian will cross it on the way to the Asia-Pacific. The Region borders on Tibet. The hue and cry raised by Washington from time to time over the human rights violations in Tibet is a trick the US propaganda machine resorts to while waging an information war against China. 

The US goes to any length to support the Uygur separatists abroad, for instance the World Uyghur Congress headed by Rabiya Kadir , one of the richest Chinese in the world She meets US congressmen and even has had a meeting with George Bush. She is a hyped symbol of Uyghur resistance. The 10 Conditions of Love movie devoted to her was shot in 2009. Despite the protests from Beijing, it was included into the Melbourne festivals program. 

The World Uyghur Congress cooperates with the so-called Tibetan government in exile and has branches in many countries, even in Australia. It should be noted that Anglo-Saxon powers (the United States of America, Great Britain, New Zealand and Australia) have been including China into their agenda for a number of years, some time ago Australia became a host country to US Marine Corps unit. 

Washington predominantly uses three issues to exert pressure on China: Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang, where separatist protests are on the rise. Thats why the United States is well disposed towards the growth of Uyghur nationalism, using every opportunity to spur its radicalization 


Vladislav Gulevich - Xinjiang in Focus of US Foreign Policy - Strategic Culture Foundation - on-line journal > Xinjiang in Focus of US Foreign Policy > Strategic-Culture.org - Strategic Culture Foundation

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## Abu Zolfiqar

The same types they send to fight in Syria they will hope to kill 2 birds with one stone by supporting them against Chinese and by disturbing relations between Pak and China (or attempting to, rather)

We better be on high alert for such evil designs 


After Syria, anything is possible

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## ChineseTiger1986

US always loves to meddle other nations' sovereignty, the divide and conquer is always their usual tactics, nothing new here.

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## zxmint

Free Hawaii! And free Texas republic!

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## DV RULES

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> US always loves to meddle other nations' sovereignty, the divide and conquer is always their usual tactics, nothing new here.



Yes, not new but need to prepare for counter productivity. What happened in Doha Summit was open violation of a country's integrity so if it could be possible than China has to remember that these CIS countries are purchase able in very reasonable amount.

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## Paan Singh

and people think US will leave afghanistan?


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## asianamerican

zxmint said:


> Free Hawaii! And free Texas republic!



If often wonder why China doesn't go the assassianation route. Sure is painful in the short run, but most people have short memory and forget it about it after a few years. I mean look at the US. After annexing Hawaii and going to war constantly for the last 70 years, people still gush about supposed freedom and human rights. China is not dirty enough. 

They need to be more like Americans and Israelis. If these people were on the opposite end of American's interest supporting separatism and terrorism, they would been killed by now.

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## S10

asianamerican said:


> If often wonder why China doesn't go the assassianation route. Sure is painful in the short run, but most people have short memory and forget it about it after a few years. I mean look at the US. After annexing Hawaii and going to war constantly for the last 70 years, people still gush about supposed freedom and human rights. China is not dirty enough.
> 
> They need to be more like Americans and Israelis. If these people were on the opposite end of American's interest supporting separatism and terrorism, they would been killed by now.


Zhou Enlai, who started China's intelligence agencies, explicitly forbid the practice of political assasination and sex as tools for intelligence activites. Since he was a paramount figure in China, the rule is set in stone.

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## kalu_miah

Xinjiang Uighurs are not seeking independence, all they want is better treatment, less discrimination, more jobs and investment of some of the resources extracted from their land. USA as usual is poking its nose where it does not belong. China needs to pay attention and do a better job to not to give any opportunity to USA or any others that want to create trouble.

I have been to Xinjiang and some former Soviet stans. Xinjiang economy is going up, standard of living of people is also going up, including those of minorities such as Uighur, Kazakh and Kyrgyz in Xinjiang. In some former Soviet states like Kyrgyz republic, some people still wish that Soviet Union did not break up, life was better in the Union. Many poor Tajik, Kyrgyz and Uzbek now go to Russia to do work as guest worker. Independence just to get a small less powerful state is almost always a wrong geopolitical move for any nation or people, unless its a unworkable situation and their life and property is under imminent threat.

Hopefully by 2014, USA will leave Afghanistan for good and never come back to meddle in Central Asia. China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan need to play active role to keep Afghanistan stabilized so USA do not find another opportunity to step in and make a mess.

Here is the road map I predict for this region:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html

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## iajj

xinjiang is in our hands because all of turkics' terrorist tactics and anglo-saxons' warmachines cannot win a war against chinese arms in xinjiang, not because of the good-heartedness of the turkics and the "negligence" of american foreign policy. american foreign policy and turkic terrorism conspire constantly to harm and murder hans in the area, and so our possession of xinjiang was made and is constantly reinforced by hunting down turkics and any american assets in the area

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## iajj

kalu_miah said:


> Xinjiang Uighurs are not seeking independence, all they want is better treatment, less discrimination, more jobs and investment of some of the resources extracted from their land.



who the hell are you to speak for the turkics and their rampage and murders in chinese land? and keep selling your retarded roadmaps to people who don't give a **** because they know that that you are on the payroll of some pan-turkicist organization is a transparent fact. peace is easily restored in xinjiang by turkics' recognizing the simple fact that chinese sovereignty on chinese land is first and foremost the exclusive, judicial right to kill their lot. 

and even if the turkics put down their arms, there is no guarantee that the state won't kill them anyway: just like that lamaist terrorist who engaged in all sorts of militancy and terrorism back when that pig was young, and now he is old and spent and wants to sleep with hollywood, so he wants peace and not war, autonomy and not independence? he couldn't want war and autonomy because he failed and was defeated after killing so many innocent tibetans and chinese, and with so much blood on his hand, he doesn't get to call it quits: beijing gets to decide when to quit and when to stop targeting his sect. again, we have the right to kill his followers because we won the war that that lama started, and all peace is a vengeful, victor's peace, and all the lamaists and turkicists just need to live with this peace.

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## kalu_miah

iajj said:


> who the hell are you to speak for the turkics and their rampage and murders in chinese land? and keep selling your retarded roadmaps to people who don't give a **** because they know that that you are on the payroll of some pan-turkicist organization is a transparent fact. peace is easily restored in xinjiang by turkics' recognizing the simple fact that chinese sovereignty on chinese land is first and foremost the exclusive, judicial right to kill their lot.
> 
> and even if the turkics put down their arms, there is no guarantee that the state won't kill them anyway: just like that lamaist terrorist who engaged in all sorts of militancy and terrorism back when that pig was young, and now he is old and spent and wants to sleep with hollywood, so he wants peace and not war, autonomy and not independence? he couldn't want war and autonomy because he failed and was defeated after killing so many innocent tibetans and chinese, and with so much blood on his hand, he doesn't get to call it quits: beijing gets to decide when to quit and when to stop targeting his sect. again, we have the right to kill his followers because we won the war that that lama started, and all peace is a vengeful, victor's peace, and all the lamaists and turkicists just need to live with this peace.



The road map can be wrong, its just my own idea, nothing more. Time will tell if that idea is worth anything.

I don't claim to speak for Turkics, instead I tried to give a neutral assessment with an outsiders perspective, because I have some first hand experience.

I am aware that both Tibetans and Turkics lost their wars against the PLA in 1950's and killings are justified in war.

But, you cannot maintain moral high ground and gain international leadership, if you have this my way or highway kind of attitude. I am sure responsible Chinese leaders do not think like this.

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## S10

kalu_miah said:


> Xinjiang Uighurs are not seeking independence, all they want is better treatment, less discrimination, more jobs and investment of some of the resources extracted from their land. USA as usual is poking its nose where it does not belong. China needs to pay attention and do a better job to not to give any opportunity to USA or any others that want to create trouble.
> 
> I have been to Xinjiang and some former Soviet stans. Xinjiang economy is going up, standard of living of people is also going up, including those of minorities such as Uighur, Kazakh and Kyrgyz in Xinjiang. In some former Soviet states like Kyrgyz republic, some people still wish that Soviet Union did not break up, life was better in the Union. Many poor Tajik, Kyrgyz and Uzbek now go to Russia to do work as guest worker. Independence just to get a small less powerful state is almost always a wrong geopolitical move for any nation or people, unless its a unworkable situation and their life and property is under imminent threat.
> 
> Hopefully by 2014, USA will leave Afghanistan for good and never come back to meddle in Central Asia. China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan need to play active role to keep Afghanistan stabilized so USA do not find another opportunity to step in and make a mess.
> 
> Here is the road map I predict for this region:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html


News flash, they already receive better treatment than 90% of the country. They go to university with lower grades than average, have 50% government job reserved for them, and get their sentences reduced in case they break the law. When they are getting the special treatment and still get rebellious, it's time to put them down like dogs. If they don't want to be Chinese citizens, they can be foreign corpses.

Keep in mind, they are outsiders to the region, while Han people were there more than a thousand years before the Turks arrived.

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## canadian icehole

zxmint said:


> Free Hawaii! And free Texas republic!



Don't forget to support the NRA and it's members if the FED comes for their guns. You never know, it could be 1776 all over again! 



S10 said:


> Zhou Enlai, who started China's intelligence agencies, explicitly forbid the practice of political assasination and *sex as tools for intelligence activites*. Since he was a paramount figure in China, the rule is set in stone.



I call bullsh!t on relying on honey traps. I can think of a recent US espionage case where it involved a Chinese female.


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## S10

canadian icehole said:


> Don't forget to support the NRA and it's members if the FED comes for their guns. You never know, it could be 1776 all over again!
> 
> 
> 
> I call bullsh!t on relying on honey traps. I can think of a recent US espionage case where it involved a Chinese female.


Up to you on what you want to believe, but keep in mind that it's not the first time the media overhype and add in their own bits.

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## kalu_miah

S10 said:


> News flash, they already receive better treatment than 90% of the country. They go to university with lower grades than average, have 50% government job reserved for them, and get their sentences reduced in case they break the law. When they are getting the special treatment and still get rebellious, it's time to put them down like dogs. If they don't want to be Chinese citizens, they can be foreign corpses.
> 
> Keep in mind, they are outsiders to the region, while Han people were there more than a thousand years before the Turks arrived.



I am sure Chinese law for rebellion against the state is severe, if Chinese state enforces these laws, others should have no issues with that.

As for Turkics being outsiders, I thought Uighurs partly descend from Tocharians who were local to Tarim basin:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

That is why they look more caucasian compared to their unmixed cousins:
Yugur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## canadian icehole

S10 said:


> Up to you on what you want to believe, but keep in mind that it's not the first time the media overhype and add in their own bits.



I have no illusions on the bias of media especially if News Corp is involved.


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## kalu_miah

iajj said:


> you didn't pretend to speak for the turkics, and yet you said they have renounced separatist goals - who the hell are you to say that? just how many panturkic organizations have you worked for to reach that conclusion? how many turkic terrorists have you worked with to know the exact extent of their ambitions and purposes?
> 
> china claims natural leadership in east asia because it is the sovereign of 90% of east asia, and sovereignty is not a moral category but a judicial one: the exclusive right to kill, to maim, to start a war, foreign or civil. we claim natural leadership in east asia because we have won the wars against tibetans and turkics and thus earned the right to continue to exercise the right to kill any tibetan and turkic who has acted hostile to the state. we claim natural leadership because in face of such barbarity from tibetans and turkics we persevere and react with the equal determination of violence and equal ruthlessness and can prevail in the end. the current leadership of china has cemented its status after witnessing a huge amount of violence done to its cadre from KMT, from lamaists, from nipponzi, from turkics and after killing a still greater number of these KMT people, these tibetans and turkics. the ruling party of china has many, many scars left by many, many enemies, and the only thing that it has to say for itself is that it's collected even more trophies from the enemies it's destroyed, including many of the turkics who were suppressed without mercy and whose venomous blood had to be drawn and still paint vast patchs of xinjiang. the political class of china, in other words, has seen more blood than wherever you came from.
> 
> and you can save your moral preaching for your colleagues at the next panturkicist organization you work in and give them a piece of your moral crap before they next pick up a watermelon knife and hack at a police offier.



I know about Pan-Turkism and its history, but you are wrong to assume that I worked for any Pan-Turkic organization. I have no sympathy for Pan-Turkic ideology or their activists. My sympathy for them is mainly because they are fellow Muslims and may be because centuries back we had some Turkics and Turko-Mongols migrated to our region and left some small genetic foot print. And many of these people are celebrated past rulers and heroes for South Asian Muslims.

And I am totally against these occasional random violence we see from Uighurs.


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## S10

kalu_miah said:


> I am sure Chinese law for rebellion against the state is severe, if Chinese state enforces these laws, others should have no issues with that.
> 
> As for Turkics being outsiders, I thought Uighurs partly descend from Tocharians who were local to Tarim basin:
> Tocharians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> That is why they look more caucasian compared to their unmixed cousins:
> Yugur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


We have celtic ruins in Xinjiang, and they were the first Caucasoids to settle in the region. There is no definitive say on the origins of Uyghur until the Uyghur Khaganate, since nomadic tribes kill and inter-breed with each other so often. However, Han people established foothold in the region dating back to a century before the common era, more than 2100 years ago. The Uyghur Khaganate did not start to emerge until the late 7th century.

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## khail007

Paan Singh said:


> and people think US will leave afghanistan?



Nope, USA will not. Afghanistan will leave USA.


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## zxmint

asianamerican said:


> If often wonder why China doesn't go the assassianation route. Sure is painful in the short run, but most people have short memory and forget it about it after a few years. I mean look at the US. After annexing Hawaii and going to war constantly for the last 70 years, people still gush about supposed freedom and human rights. China is not dirty enough.
> 
> They need to be more like Americans and Israelis. If these people were on the opposite end of American's interest supporting separatism and terrorism, they would been killed by now.


To be honest, I really like you American guys when you do not pretend to be that sanctimonious. We share many common world views actually. 

What you said is damn right and you know what, you Americans were so fortunate when you were rising and expanding in 19th and 20th century because of the specific geopolitical advantages you have. No one can interfere you after the last war against the British. But look at China, we have 4 neighbors who got nukes and countries like Russia, India, Japan, etc, are all strong countries.Not to mention US has never loosen its ring of encirclement. Before China become Worlds NO.1 and have overwhelming power in Asia- Pacific area, we can not go too far on these issues.

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## zxmint

iajj said:


> these turkics are animals and burglars and brigands in chinese history, and since xinjiang is chinese land, i don't give a damn how you feel about turkic conquerors in your history: we will continue to greet every pan-turkic and every turkic terrorist with batons, bayonets, bullets.
> 
> and you, your panturkicism, your quasi-/semi-turkic blood, need never get even close to xinjiang lest these batons and bullets should greet you. and stop peddling your tacky, silly panturkicist world domination plans because both your sinister intention and the stupidity of those "plans" are too transparent and too laughable.


Easy dude, look out your words. Don't make yourself like a racist . I know this guy and I don't think he is an Anti-China man.

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## zxmint

kalu_miah said:


> Xinjiang Uighurs are not seeking independence, all they want is better treatment, less discrimination, more jobs and investment of some of the resources extracted from their land. USA as usual is poking its nose where it does not belong. China needs to pay attention and do a better job to not to give any opportunity to USA or any others that want to create trouble.
> 
> I have been to Xinjiang and some former Soviet stans. Xinjiang economy is going up, standard of living of people is also going up, including those of minorities such as Uighur, Kazakh and Kyrgyz in Xinjiang. In some former Soviet states like Kyrgyz republic, some people still wish that Soviet Union did not break up, life was better in the Union. Many poor Tajik, Kyrgyz and Uzbek now go to Russia to do work as guest worker. Independence just to get a small less powerful state is almost always a wrong geopolitical move for any nation or people, unless its a unworkable situation and their life and property is under imminent threat.
> 
> Hopefully by 2014, USA will leave Afghanistan for good and never come back to meddle in Central Asia. China, Russia, Iran and Pakistan need to play active role to keep Afghanistan stabilized so USA do not find another opportunity to step in and make a mess.
> 
> Here is the road map I predict for this region:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/180767-geopolitics-eurasia-region.html


If Uighurs can ask for independence, then Asians who live in California can do that too for sure. Their situations are quite similar and if compared by proportion in a country's history, Asians live longer in California than Uighurs live in Xinjiang.

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## KRAIT

Nothing will happen. China knows how to handle domestic things.

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## Echo_419

I think Chinese knows this 
But focus in US english means Destablize


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## Agnostic_Indian

Muslims in the region is oppressed by Chinese authorities and the hans, they need support from Muslim brothers from around the world, it's good that America recognised the issue.


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## Areesh

Paan Singh said:


> and people think US will leave afghanistan?



And you people think that USA is going to teach bad China a lesson on your behalf.

Not going to happen buddy.

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## Agnostic_Indian

Areesh said:


> And you people think that USA is going to teach bad China a lesson on your behalf.
> 
> Not going to happen buddy.



isn't it good if with American involvement China forced to allow more religious freedom and economic development to the people.


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## Areesh

Agnostic_Indian said:


> isn't it good if with American involvement China forced to allow more religious freedom and economic development to the people.



It is internal matter of China. And USA can't force china on it. We all know China and today's China isn't going to be forced on its internal matters from anyone.

Yeah China should give more economic and religious to its people but not because USA pressurizes China.

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## xuxu1457

It's only a voice that US must make to please sb, US and China both know that it's just a voice.


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## Agnostic_Indian

Areesh said:


> It is internal matter of China. And USA can't force china on it. We all know China and today's China isn't going to be forced on its internal matters from anyone.
> 
> Yeah China should give more economic and religious to its people but not because USA pressurizes China.



but if that happens because of American pressure or Islamic groups, countries pressure or anybody's pressure, it still is a good thing to happen right ? why don't pak govt use it's diplomacy and media to highlight the suffering of Muslims out there ?


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## iajj

Agnostic_Indian said:


> isn't it good if with American involvement China forced to allow more religious freedom and economic development to the people.



chinese freedom in suppressing turkics' religious freedom or freedom of any sort has never been owed to american non-involvement - it is always owed to the fact that in xinjiang china's military force can accomplish anything in face of american military opposition and turkic civilian or terrorist resistance combined. just like in tibet our freedom in suppressing lamaism is owed not to indian friendship (these backstabbing yindoos we have come to know very well since 1950s) but because our military can effect any policy in face of american military opposition, indian subversion and overt aggression, and lamaist armed rebellion and civilian sabotage.

at that moment, at that locale, that singular power to kill at will, against the wish of anyone else, or any combination of hostile individuals and forces - that is the true sovereign, and chinese sovereignty over lamaists and turkicists and chinas right to kill them at will have driven you yindoos and your white masters nuts for much of the last sixty years, as evidenced by the many illogical, delusional posts you yindoos merrily posted in this thread. stupid yindoos...

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## liontk

This topic is very pointless as more developments pick up, most of these rebels will align themselves to the government though at the same time chinois government should not take their status quo but rather develop upon the projects that are being implement in the far western regions. The reality is that the fast chinois growth were not evenly distributed and I will go as far to say that eastern and northern portions of chine are already developed region with very good hdis and I am not talking about the Macau or hong kong, however the same cannot be said Ningxia, inner mongolia or xianjiang where the progress is at a slower pace though this is not to say that there have not been great development in Urumqi for example. I think chinois government priority should be to attract tourism and industries in the far east through incentives or the problem could get troublesome in the future if non state actors get involved and this is assuming that they are not involved already. Also @kalu_miah, i felt your assessment was balanced for the most part though ground realities may completely be different as we are outside observers.

According to wiki, which is a poor source no doubt reports shanghai HDI at 0.908 in contrast to xingJiang at 0.774 or tibet at 0.630 HDI, this is to reflect that growth has been uneven not say that in future it will not be fixed and depends on the priorities of the current administration under the new supreme leader.

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## Agnostic_Indian

iajj said:


> chinese freedom in suppressing turkics' religious freedom or freedom of any sort has never been owed to american non-involvement - it is always owed to the fact that in xinjiang china's military force can accomplish anything in face of american military opposition and turkic civilian or terrorist resistance combined. just like in tibet our freedom in suppressing lamaism is owed not to indian friendship (these backstabbing yindoos we have come to know very well since 1950s) but because our military can effect any policy in face of american military opposition, indian subversion and overt aggression, and lamaist armed rebellion and civilian sabotage.
> 
> at that moment, at that locale, that singular power to kill at will, against the wish of anyone else, or any combination of hostile individuals and forces - that is the true sovereign, and chinese sovereignty over lamaists and turkicists and china&#8217;s right to kill them at will have driven you yindoos and your white masters nuts for much of the last sixty years, as evidenced by the many illogical, delusional posts you yindoos merrily posted in this thread. stupid yindoos...



if China continue to oppress it will make an enemy out of people of Pakistan and other Islamic countries,
btw you have a powerful military doesn't mean that you have to use it against your own people to oppress them, instead why don't you let them leave their own way, if am right they are only asking for basic human and religious rights.


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## iajj

Agnostic_Indian said:


> if China continue to oppress it will make an enemy out of people of Pakistan and other Islamic countries,
> btw you have a powerful military doesn't mean that you have to use it against your own people to oppress them, instead why don't you let them leave their own way, if am right they are only asking for basic human and religious rights.



hitler started a war that stalin finished. so stalin could do whatever the hell he wanted with germany, with german POWs, with german civilians, with german girls and women. hitler started the war and harmed russia, so he didn't get the right to call it off just because the war turned against him.

the lamaists, these animals you yindoo lots sponsored, instigated, armed, and subsequently shielded, started a war against us, killed our civilians and our troops, but we prevailed in our war against these militan religious nutjobs and then we prevailed in our war against you yindoo backstabbers. what we had in tibet in early 1950s was a cordial, negotiated peace; what we have in tibet after 1962 is a cruel, victor's peace, meaning we now get to kill any lamas who don't smell to our liking. dalai lama started a war that PLA finished, so he should expect no better mercy from us than what hitler should expect from stalin. all his talk of a shrinking list of demands now means nothing, not after he started a war and was so soundly defeated. same goes for the panturkicists who thought they could start a war against chinese and kill our kins with immunity while the rest of the country was engulfed in a bigger war, so when the turkics were finally defeated, they could never expect anything better from us than what they get now: chinese sovereignty is today exercised in xinjiang at expense of turkics' lives, sure, but not only are such exercises legal, but they are totally legitimate.

lesson to yindoos and their sponsored turkic and lamaist terrorists: don't start a war you can't finish! what you guys get today - absolute state power over lives and religion for turkics and lamaists, absolute hostility and friendship with a mortal enemy for yindoos - you guys certainly richly deserve these punishments.

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## Agnostic_Indian

KRAIT said:


> Nothing will happen. China knows how to handle domestic things.



That depends how strong is the rebels there and how China handles it. if the Muslim rebels are strong and China use force it will continue for a long time and that will give America a chance to raise the issue in international forums, various Arab countries might even fund the rebels, China has a good image in front of Islamic countries specially in the eyes of it's all whether friend Pakistan, may be pak govt will keep quiet but other Islamic groups and terror out fits will not sit quiet and common Pakistanis also will rethink about a good China image which they have until now, finally pak govt will have a hard time controlling it's media, emotions of it's people and the terror outfits and assure China that they are still with China . on the other hand if China allow religious freedom and economic package to them they will settle down.


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## liontk

Agnostic_Indian said:


> if China continue to oppress it will make an enemy out of people of Pakistan and other Islamic countries,
> btw you have a powerful military doesn't mean that you have to use it against your own people to oppress them, instead why don't you let them leave their own way, if am right they are only asking for basic human and religious rights.


While i certainly do not agree with your view point but you do understand that argueing with a self proclaimed racist is waste of time rather its like reasoning with a wall, trust me been there Done that.
Ps. Total waste of time


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## Areesh

Agnostic_Indian said:


> but if that happens because of American pressure or Islamic groups, countries pressure or anybody's pressure, it still is a good thing to happen right ? why don't pak govt use it's diplomacy and media to highlight the suffering of Muslims out there ?



If that happens it won't be because of USA pressure. In fact USA pressure might make things even more bad as China would consider it an interference in their internal matters. It would China who should decide on these issues.

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## Agnostic_Indian

iajj said:


> hitler started a war that stalin finished. so stalin could do whatever the hell he wanted with germany, with german POWs, with german civilians, with german girls and women. hitler started the war and harmed russia, so he didn't get the right to call it off just because the war turned against him.
> 
> the lamaists, these animals you yindoo lots sponsored, instigated, armed, and subsequently shielded, started a war against us, killed our civilians and our troops, but we prevailed in our war against these militan religious nutjobs and then we prevailed in our war against you yindoo backstabbers. what we had in tibet in early 1950s was a cordial, negotiated peace; what we have in tibet after 1962 is a cruel, victor's peace, meaning we now get to kill any lamas who don't smell to our liking. dalai lama started a war that PLA finished, so he should expect no better mercy from us than what hitler should expect from stalin. all his talk of a shrinking list of demands now means nothing, not after he started a war and was so soundly defeated. same goes for the panturkicists who thought they could start a war against chinese and kill our kins with immunity while the rest of the country was engulfed in a bigger war, so when the turkics were finally defeated, they could never expect anything better from us than what they get now: chinese sovereignty is today exercised in xinjiang at expense of turkics' lives, sure, but not only are such exercises legal, but they are totally legitimate.
> 
> lesson to yindoos and their sponsored turkic and lamaist terrorists: don't start a war you can't finish! what you guys get today - absolute state power over lives and religion for turkics and lamaists, absolute hostility and friendship with a mortal enemy for yindoos - you guys certainly richly deserve these punishments.



dude there is nothing called "yindoo", so stop using your hate vocabulary. 
secondly India isn't even remotely involved in this mess you created by oppressing your own people. 
third as I replied to KRAIT it will be better for China if they show some respect to the local peoples basic rights and settle it peacefully.


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## KRAIT

@Agnostic_Indian I know one thing for sure. China will use every means and iron fists to suppress the rebels. 

The Uiyghar Terrorists in Xinjiang comes to Pakistan based terrorist camps to get trained. Terrorists from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc. are also sent there to train. 

China has raised concerns to Pakistani authorities to take strict actions against terrorist camps being operated on its soils, against China's Xinjiang province.

China Points to Pakistan in Xinjiang Attack - WSJ.com

The Xinjiang problem and Pakistan  The Express Tribune

China pushes Xinjiang hard to ignore Pak - Times Of India

Pakistani authorities are working on it because China is much more important ally of Pakistan, especially due to UN SC membership of China. Otherwise India can get rest of the 4 nations to its side if something as traumatic happens like 26/11, Parliament attack or Kargil.

As for oppression, I don't think China is that oppressive than other so called "civilized" nations which wage wars against any nation on their whims and doubts.


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## Agnostic_Indian

KRAIT said:


> @Agnostic_Indian I know one thing for sure. China will use every means and iron fists to suppress the rebels.
> 
> The Uiyghar Terrorists in Xinjiang comes to Pakistan based terrorist camps to get trained. Terrorists from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan etc. are also sent there to train.
> 
> China has raised concerns to Pakistani authorities to take strict actions against terrorist camps being operated on its soils, against China's Xinjiang province.
> 
> China Points to Pakistan in Xinjiang Attack - WSJ.com
> 
> The Xinjiang problem and Pakistan &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> China pushes Xinjiang hard to ignore Pak - Times Of India
> 
> Pakistani authorities are working on it because China is much more important ally of Pakistan, especially due to UN SC membership of China. Otherwise India can get rest of the 4 nations to its side if something as traumatic happens like 26/11, Parliament attack or Kargil.
> 
> As for oppression, I don't think China is that oppressive than other so called "civilized" nations which wage wars against any nation on their whims and doubts.



if you mean America then I also agree that what they have done in many places is wrong, but here it's Chinese people themselves are targeted by their own govt, it will certainly attract terror outfits from Pakistan and musharaf already accepted that it's very difficult to control all the terror outfits in Pakistan, so definitely they will have a hard time.

http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201281113456325751

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/wap/Item.aspx?type=0&item=150793


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## Agnostic_Indian

*A city in western China is trying
reduce religious fervor by prohibiting
people from wearing veils, traditional
Arab dress, or growing long beards,
Associated Press reports.
"Dilute religious consciousness,
advocate a civilized healthy life style,"
the notice in the Dunmaili district of
Yining in China's heavily Muslim
western reaches read.
The notice added the campaign's
objective was "to completely get rid
of the abnormal phenomenon in the
entire community of minority ethnic
women and youth wearing Arabian
dress, growing beards and covering
their faces in veils."
The notice also called for stubborn
individuals who refuse to give up their
veils, Arab dress, or long beards to
be educated, and "diehards" turned
over to judicial departments.*
Yining is in Xinjiang, a region home to
the traditionally Muslim Uighur ethnic
group. The region has occasionally
seen religiously-motivated violent
unrest.
Tibetan Buddhists, Uighur Muslims
and other minority faiths are generally
allowed to wear their traditional dress.
However, both groups have been
targeted in political re-education
campaigns following anti-government
violence related to complaints over
the lack of religious freedom in China.
Xinjiang regional spokeswoman Hou
Hanmin told AP by telephone that she
was unaware of the campaign.
"This is not consistent with the reality
here," Hou said of the campaign,
adding that it sounded "unrealistic."
The notice from the Dunmaili district
of Yining disappeared from the Yining
government website Thursday after
Western press inquiries, but remained
available on a state-run news website.
*Bans of face coverings and other
forms of hijab are increasingly taking
hold in Western countries where a
failure to assimilate large numbers of
Muslim immigrants has resulted in
societal divisions and calls to
supplant the indigineous mainstream
Western culture and laws with the
growing minorities' Islamic Sharia law.
Both Tunisia and Turkey have bans on
hijab in public schools, universities,
and government buildings. Morocco
has no official ban, but actively
encourages women to eschew hijab.
In all three countries hijab is seen as
a symbol of political Islam rather than
mere religious expression.*


Chinese City Seeks Burqa Ban - Israel National News

I would like to seek comments from learned members like @Awesome, @Aeronaut, @Thorough Pro, @JonAsad
@Raja.Pakistani @ChineseTiger1986


@muse @Safriz @Developereo
etc that how do you see this particular news of ban of burqa and beard in a city of Yining situated in Xinjiang region ? isn't it wrong for the city authorities curb the freedom of dressing ?How should the Muslims in there strive for their rights and self respect ? sure it's internal matter of China but I am sure you all will have an opinion about it and suggestions for the betterment of people there.

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## Developereo

Agnostic_Indian said:


> @Developereo
> etc that how do you see this particular news of ban of burqa and beard in a city of Yining situated in Xinjiang region ? isn't it wrong for the city authorities curb the freedom of dressing ?How should the Muslims in there strive for their rights and self respect ? sure it's internal matter of China but I am sure you all will have an opinion about it and suggestions for the betterment of people there.



Of course it is a violation of their fundamental rights. No question about it.

As to how Muslims should react, the best way would be to elevate their social and economic position, and to get media exposure, to make their case to the Chinese public. I am sure that, if the issue were debated intelligently, most Chinese people would agree that wielding a gun at a police officer is a crime; but growing a beard is not a crime (or shouldn't be).

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## Agnostic_Indian

@JonAsad why only thanks but no comments both times I mentioned you for a comment ?

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## muse

Agnostic_Indian said:


> [B*]how do you see this particular news of ban of burqa and beard in a city of Yining situated in Xinjiang region ? isn't it wrong for the city authorities curb the freedom of dressing ?**How should the Muslims in there strive for their rights and self respect ? sure it's internal matter of China but I am sure you all will have an opinion about it and suggestions for the betterment of people there*.




Thank you for the invite, I am persuaded that fashion sensibility has absolutely nothing to do with faith in God, but some want to insist that God is a fashion conscious God -- and I personally do not have respect for clothing such as Burkha but short of security concerns, that is to say knew the faces of people can not be seen, I don't see how it is the business of government, any government at any level, to tell people how to dress Look, we do not see God as fashion conscious and short of security concerns we as government should not be in the business of fashion.

But some Muslims who insist on wearing their religiosity on their sleeves are not going to be convinced that God is not fashion conscious, to them, to their understanding of religion, God is very much fashion conscious, Arabian fashion, please - If only faith in God was about facial hair and fashion sensibility.

So how should Muslims respond ? -- Well, certainly it must be brought to the attention of authorities that in the action they have taken, while their intention was to De-legitimize ideas of religiosity wherein adherents are invited to wear their religiosity on their sleeves, their actions have had the opposite effect -- Also those who are persuaded that Islam is about fashion and it is their religious duty to further their arabian fashion sense, these people I fear may be prepared for violently promoting their ideas about religion and the role of fashion and facial hair, these people I fear will bring much shame and harm to the majority of Muslims.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

S10 said:


> Zhou Enlai, who started China's intelligence agencies, explicitly forbid the practice of political assasination and *sex as tools for intelligence activites*. Since he was a paramount figure in China, the rule is set in stone.



Are you sure Chinese intelligence is still following that?


----------



## Developereo

muse said:


> De-legitimize ideas of religiosity wherein adherents are invited to wear their religiosity on their sleeves



Why stop at religion?

Why not outlaw people who wear their culture on their sleeve?
How dare people use chopsticks, or their hands, or cutlery when it is not the mainstream norm?

While we are at it, let's outlaw showcasing the marital status on one's fingers?

The government should issue red/green/saffron overalls to each citizen so people's sensibilities won't be taxed by the personal freedoms on display with all this diversity being "worn on sleeves".

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## muse

Developereo said:


> Why stop at religion?
> 
> *Why not outlaw people who wear their culture on their sleeve?*
> How dare people use chopsticks, or their hands, or cutlery when it is not the mainstream norm? While we are at it, let's outlaw showcasing the marital status on one's fingers?
> 
> The government should issue red/green/saffron overalls to each citizen so people's sensibilities won't be taxed by the personal freedoms on display with all this diversity being "worn on sleeves".



It's more important to make sense than expressing your indignation at outward expressions of religiosity associated with a *culture* of terrorism and intolerance --


----------



## Paan Singh

Areesh said:


> And you people think that USA is going to teach bad China a lesson on your behalf.
> 
> Not going to happen buddy.



why bring india? U.S is after china not for the reasons of india 

Your paranoia does not over wrt india. and now u will say that U.S came in A-stan for india


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## Developereo

muse said:


> It's more important to make sense than expressing your indignation at outward expressions of religiosity associated with a *culture* of terrorism and intolerance --



My post makes perfect sense to people who understand that simply having a beard is not a sign of terrorism or intolerance.

The intolerance comes from people who make that false association in the first place and who, while claiming to be "liberal", miss the fundamental concept of personal freedom.

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## muse

Developereo said:


> My post makes perfect sense to people who understand that simply having a beard is not a sign of terrorism or intolerance.
> 
> The intolerance comes from people who make that false association in the first place and who, while claiming to be "liberal", miss the fundamental concept of personal freedom.



I think you misunderstand - I do not support government being a fashion nanny, what I did say and have said over and over, is that the sudden appearance of a fashion sense that makes the claim of being "religion" is associated with terrorism and and intolerance. There continue to be some who think that "Liberal" means that we have to tolerate the intolerant (see paradox of tolerance) - and I do agree that it is genuine problem that in our effort to deny space to those who argue that it is their religious duty to dress in a particular (and deny others, for instance think of the point of view of those who wear their religion on their sleeves in the Pakistan woman squash champion thread), that we do not become intolerant as well, and we have said that fashion sense is not a government function, other than from a security perspective.

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## Developereo

muse said:


> There continue to be some who think that "Liberal" means that we have to tolerate the intolerant



Not at all.

The problem stems from the false premise -- the generalization -- that, just because _some_ bearded men are intolerant, therefore _all_ bearded men are intolerant.

It is an unwarranted generalization, and sweeping generalizations are the bread and butter of illiberal intolerance.

P.S. Just in case I wasn't clear, my issue goes well beyond fashion sense, and is more about unwarranted generalizations that impinge on personal freedoms.

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## Safriz

Agnostic_Indian said:


> *A city in western China is trying
> reduce religious fervor by prohibiting
> people from wearing veils, traditional
> Arab dress, or growing long beards,
> Associated Press reports.
> "Dilute religious consciousness,
> advocate a civilized healthy life style,"
> the notice in the Dunmaili district of
> Yining in China's heavily Muslim
> western reaches read.
> The notice added the campaign's
> objective was "to completely get rid
> of the abnormal phenomenon in the
> entire community of minority ethnic
> women and youth wearing Arabian
> dress, growing beards and covering
> their faces in veils."
> The notice also called for stubborn
> individuals who refuse to give up their
> veils, Arab dress, or long beards to
> be educated, and "diehards" turned
> over to judicial departments.*
> Yining is in Xinjiang, a region home to
> the traditionally Muslim Uighur ethnic
> group. The region has occasionally
> seen religiously-motivated violent
> unrest.
> Tibetan Buddhists, Uighur Muslims
> and other minority faiths are generally
> allowed to wear their traditional dress.
> However, both groups have been
> targeted in political re-education
> campaigns following anti-government
> violence related to complaints over
> the lack of religious freedom in China.
> Xinjiang regional spokeswoman Hou
> Hanmin told AP by telephone that she
> was unaware of the campaign.
> "This is not consistent with the reality
> here," Hou said of the campaign,
> adding that it sounded "unrealistic."
> The notice from the Dunmaili district
> of Yining disappeared from the Yining
> government website Thursday after
> Western press inquiries, but remained
> available on a state-run news website.
> *Bans of face coverings and other
> forms of hijab are increasingly taking
> hold in Western countries where a
> failure to assimilate large numbers of
> Muslim immigrants has resulted in
> societal divisions and calls to
> supplant the indigineous mainstream
> Western culture and laws with the
> growing minorities' Islamic Sharia law.
> Both Tunisia and Turkey have bans on
> hijab in public schools, universities,
> and government buildings. Morocco
> has no official ban, but actively
> encourages women to eschew hijab.
> In all three countries hijab is seen as
> a symbol of political Islam rather than
> mere religious expression.*
> 
> 
> Chinese City Seeks Burqa Ban - Israel National News
> 
> I would like to seek comments from learned members like @Awesome, @Aeronaut, @Thorough Pro, @JonAsad
> @Raja.Pakistani @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> 
> @muse @Safriz
> @Developereo
> etc that how do you see this particular news of ban of burqa and beard in a city of Yining situated in Xinjiang region ? isn't it wrong for the city authorities curb the freedom of dressing ?How should the Muslims in there strive for their rights and self respect ? sure it's internal matter of China but I am sure you all will have an opinion about it and suggestions for the betterment of people there.




China isnt the torch bearer of basic human rights and never claimed to be one. This act of banning veil and beard is against basic human rights and condemnable,but France beinbg torch bearer of human rights can be proud that they are in line with china now in Forcing women to remove their religious clothing in public,against their wish...
But the thing is that if people want to act upon their religion,they will do it no matter how illegal it is made by muslim and islam haters (Govt of xinjiang included).
I was in Guangdong in 1997 (Had a cute chinese GF there) and did use to go to local mosque in Guangzou for Friday prayer....Even back then Muslims were under chinese radar..The mosque had Spies attending every prayer and the Imam called Mr.Ibrahim was always scared of being arrested..
But then again chinese society is based on Strict scrutiny and keeping people under fear

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## Contrarian

S10 said:


> Zhou Enlai, who started China's intelligence agencies, explicitly forbid the practice of political assasination and sex as tools for intelligence activites. Since he was a paramount figure in China, the rule is set in stone.



I cannot comment on assassination, but there have been a few cases in which sex/honey trap has been used against US personnel in China. This is verifiable.


----------



## muse

Developereo said:


> Not at all.
> 
> The problem stems from the false premise -- the generalization -- that, just because _some_ bearded men are intolerant, therefore _all_ bearded men are intolerant.
> 
> It is an unwarranted generalization, and sweeping generalizations are the bread and butter of illiberal intolerance.



Honestly I thought about this very seriously, I do take your point about the generalization, and I think we can dismiss it not because it is methodologically incorrect, because it is correct, however, we have seen this over and over, this rise in outward display of "Islamic" religiosity and a CULTURE of terrorism and intolerance, so if we are to be responsible (as opposed to methodologically correct) we must view such development with great suspicion and prepare for and preempt a CULTURE of terrorism and intolerance.

I want you to personally know that I have been all over this position in a methodological sense, but I am persuaded that while I cannot assert that there are no "pink elephants", that I can operate as if there weren't

No aspect of FAITH IN GOD requires facial hair or a fashion sense, so we are on solid ground in that we are not acting against religion, and we are being responsible when we seek to preempt and prepare, when we see expression in society of CULTURAL aspects associated with terrorism and intolerance. 

You will recall we have argued for long that the greatest loser after this has all died down, is going to be Islam the religion of FAITH IN GOD, but perhaps this eventuality may be just the impetus that Muslims need for the rebirth of the idea of Faith in God.

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## Developereo

muse said:


> this rise in outward display of "Islamic" religiosity and a CULTURE of terrorism and intolerance,



There are many groups within the Muslim world who have had outward display of religiosity, and have managed to avoid terrorism all these years.

Again, we come to unwarranted generalizations. The 9/11 bombers are not outwardly religious at all. Neither was the shoe bomber.



muse said:


> No aspect of FAITH IN GOD requires facial hair or a fashion sense, so we are on solid ground in that we are not acting against religion



That's treading on thin ice. I don't want us to get in the business of dictating to other Muslims what is and isn't in Islam (as long as no human rights are being broken). The last thing we want to do is to go around defining "true Islam".

I would restrict such debates about "true Islam" to cases where people invoke Islam to perpetrate human rights violations or crimes. For everything else, let people practice their version of Islam.



muse said:


> You will recall we have argued for long that the greatest loser after this has all died down, is going to be Islam the religion of FAITH IN GOD, but perhaps this eventuality may be just the impetus that Muslims need for the rebirth of the idea of Faith in God.



I absolutely agree with you and, as noted before, my concern is that if we push it too hard and are perceived to be attacking people's traditions and beliefs, it will backfire on us and help the extremists claim the banner of "saviors of Islam".

Once again, let's restrict our criticisms to real problems of intolerance (in the name of Islam), not waste time on silly distractions of appearance or rituals.

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## muse

Developereo said:


> I absolutely agree with you and, as noted before, my concern is that if we push it too hard and are perceived to be attacking people's traditions and beliefs, it will backfire on us and help the extremists claim the banner of "saviors of Islam".
> 
> Once again, *let's restrict our criticisms to real problems of intolerance (in the name of Islam), not waste time on silly distractions of appearance or rituals.*



I'm with you in this, appearance and ritual are important to those who use Islam as a tool of terrorism and we should not be scared to look this monster in the eyes nor allow the supporters of this monster to build itself in society -- we have the example of Pakistan and Pakistanis, where after 49,000 deaths at the hands of Islamist terrorism, people, otherwise reasonable and patriotic, are "not sure" whether to want or reject Shariah law - Who in their right mind and in good conscience would want such a state of mind and behavior to infect others??

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## Developereo

Anyway, to bring this discussion back to topic, I think the City's actions are misguided and will backfire. Law abiding citizens, who had no connection with extremists but are now forced to give up their personal rights, will become fodder for extremist views.

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## Sanchez

I see many brainless posters here, and why don't you do a little search on the inetrnet using simple phrases such as Uyghur man, Uyghur dress.

For Muslims here, muslims killing other muslims are happening all over the world! In China Uyghurs also brought violence to Hui, Tajik as well as other Chinese muslims. Don't make Xinjiang a Han vs Muslim issue.

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## djsjs

@Sanchez

OMG,&#36825;&#24110;&#24223;&#26612;
@Sanchez

OMG,&#36825;&#24110;&#24223;&#26612;


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## Götterdämmerung

Sanchez said:


> I see many brainless posters here, and why don't you do a little search on the inetrnet using simple phrases such as Uyghur man, Uyghur dress.
> 
> For Muslims here, muslims killing other muslims are happening all over the world! In China Uyghurs also brought violence to Hui, Tajik as well as other Chinese muslims. Don't make Xinjiang a Han vs Muslim issue.




A few years ago I was in Xinjiang doing a report where I talked to a lot of different Muslim ethnics, e.g. Hui, Kirghiz and Kazakh. Many of them told me that they don't trust the Uyghurs. In fact, they hate the Uyghurs and the Uyghurs hated everyone in return.

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## JonAsad

Agnostic_Indian said:


> @JonAsad why only thanks but no comments both times I mentioned you for a comment ?



Its weekend here and I was a lil busy- - 
Will contribute later Insha Allah-

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## Sanchez

There are more than 20 ethnic groups that resided in Xiyu (West Frontiers, present day Xinjiang) before Uyghurs. None of these people likes Uyghurs.

Turkish ancestors defeated the ancient Uyghur tribe in the present day Mogolian area, and Tajiks finally drove Uyghurs migrate into China's Xiyu (Xinjiang). 

Maybe Turkey is willing to adsorb their unhappy and centuries-old blood relatives.


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## zxmint

Agnostic_Indian said:


> Muslims in the region is oppressed by Chinese authorities and the hans, they need support from Muslim brothers from around the world, it's good that America recognised the issue.


Focus more on your own issues. India has much more conflicts than China does.

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## zxmint

Developereo said:


> Anyway, to bring this discussion back to topic, I think the City's actions are misguided and will backfire. Law abiding citizens, who had no connection with extremists but are now forced to give up their personal rights, will become fodder for extremist views.



What kind of actions do you mean? And you know what, China government are even exerting more tolerant laws on minorities and that is stupid since no criminals will feel grateful and this can only raise ethnic hatred.

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## Raja.Pakistani

Agnostic_Indian said:


> etc that how do you see this particular news of ban of burqa and beard in a city of Yining situated in Xinjiang region ? isn't it wrong for the city authorities curb the freedom of dressing ?How should the Muslims in there strive for their rights and self respect ? sure it's internal matter of China but I am sure you all will have an opinion about it and suggestions for the betterment of people there.


some people refer hijab/naqab as burqa so which one is bans there? 








Your discussion or questions are irrelevant to topic or opening post but wearing hijab or keeping beard is a personal choice and state should not dictate people what they should wear or whether they should keep beard or not. People should have religious/cultural freedom as long as their freedom don't hurt others. If some government force people to not keep beard then they are not any different than talibans who forced some guys to keep it

Yea we may face security issue in case of Afghanistani style burqa which is more cultural thing than religious. There could be problem of identification in banks and courtroom. Criminals can also use such full face burqa as a way to commit criminal acts in disguise although there is not a single incident where burqa was used for any crime or terrorism in western countries or in india/china but these problems could be handle with certain legislation. Face covering veil should be removed in areas where identification is just common sense or necessity such as banks, airports and courtrooms or you can also employ female staffs at sensitive places but taking away ones right to wear something is almost as bad as forcing somebody to wear something against their will.

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## Genesis

In the Qing dynasty men had long hair. You guys here probably know what I'm talking about, if you don't google.

When China wanted Prussia help in military, Prussian advisors said if you have hair then no training. Is this a human right violation? Chinese people at that time feels very strong about the hair.

It may be, but with that cut, the Chinese founded the first modern army and regardless of what may have happened after, it is with that cut that started true westernization. 

perhaps muslims should be allowed to keep their tradition n China. However China isn't muslim and cling to some old tradition will just slow progress. Muslims today are not in the center of things and it is because of tradition. 

Old saying in China about Chinese artiliary is you need to ask permission to put the canon ball in again to say that's done and again to fire. By the time you can fire 5 shots would have already hit you.

China abandoned it's tradition, Russia abandoned it's. Truth be told, can you honestly say Europeans still have theirs? I'm sure suits were not made in the 1500s.


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## Viper0011.

zxmint said:


> Free Hawaii! And free Texas republic!



You have a US flag in your signatures but what you are saying goes entirely against the constitution of the United States and against the basic democratic process. 

First, the US isn't China. No state is 'held by force' that you are 'freeing up' Texas and Hawaii. Its silly to say that. Second, just because you or a few others wish, no state can be 'freed' like this. In fact no state is in a contract by force either. The US's origins came from WE THE PEOPLE not through a government that puts a ban on its citizens using the Internet!! 

WE the PEOPLE have the right to do what we want to, to have a state as a republic or not. So trust me, when We the PEOPLE will want Texas or Hawaii to be a separate republic, it will happen. That's the main difference between the United States and China, Syria, India, etc. WE the PEOPLE decide what to do, not a few of us as a small group, not the government and not the military. That's democracy. Now if you are going to silly question the American democracy, please take a look at the most recent US presidential elections. You'll find your answer there about 'We the People'!

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## longyi

"WE THE PEOPLE" - sounds noble, unfortunately I didn't feel like that for the past presidential elections. I felt the choices were given to me before I went into the booths. If I had a choice there would never an Iraqi war.


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## darkhero

orangzaib said:


> No state is 'held by force'
> 
> WE the PEOPLE decide what to do,



In another point of view, all states were held together by force because the natives were simply killed. In 1500, there were more than 100 million native Americans, how many of them today? The biggest genocide in human history. 

Try to get rid of wall street first, then tell us you can make a decision. Goldman Sachs got huge amount of money of your guys as bailout in 2008, then they spent 20 billion as year end bonus..........

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## zxmint

orangzaib said:


> You have a US flag in your signatures but what you are saying goes entirely against the constitution of the United States and against the basic democratic process.
> 
> First, the US isn't China. No state is 'held by force' that you are 'freeing up' Texas and Hawaii. Its silly to say that. Second, just because you or a few others wish, no state can be 'freed' like this. In fact no state is in a contract by force either. The US's origins came from WE THE PEOPLE not through a government that puts a ban on its citizens using the Internet!!
> 
> WE the PEOPLE have the right to do what we want to, to have a state as a republic or not. So trust me, when We the PEOPLE will want Texas or Hawaii to be a separate republic, it will happen. That's the main difference between the United States and China, Syria, India, etc. WE the PEOPLE decide what to do, not a few of us as a small group, not the government and not the military. That's democracy. Now if you are going to silly question the American democracy, please take a look at the most recent US presidential elections. You'll find your answer there about 'We the People'!



Sterotyped propaganda. Compared to Europe, US is a country of dictatorship, and that is why your Economy is not as bad as theirs. No fools will believe American democracy any more. What I wanna say is states like Texas, California, Alaska are much more reasonable to get independence rather than China's Xinjiang or Tibet. Not to say Hawaii Kindom, you Americans are nothing but invaders there, so return the lands to the original residents. It is just foolish to boost your bullshit democracy which allow cops kill innocent citizens for almost no reason. Don't every Americans have guns? That is cool, you would be a much bigger Syria after several decades. let see. Any state of a real democracy federal states have rights to choose independence. The federal government cannot stop free Texans and Californians to pursue for their independence and then the people of the rest of the world will stand with them.

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## kalu_miah

darkhero said:


> In another point of view, all states were held together by force because the natives were simply killed. In 1500, there were more than 100 million native Americans, how many of them today? The biggest genocide in human history.
> 
> Try to get rid of wall street first, then tell us you can make a decision. Goldman Sachs got huge amount of money of your guys as bailout in 2008, then they spent 20 billion as year end bonus..........



America (USA) has never been a true democracy. It is an Oligarchy masked as a Republic, where the 1% call the shots and brainwash the rest 99% sheep to get their way. If 1% is not protecting national interest, then America goes down the tubes, that is exactly what is happening since Reagan came to power. Both political parties are in on this game. The next evolution of democracy will be the end of political class and political parties, as they are the ones who pretend to represent the masses, but really represent the moneyed elite who control the media and fund their elections.



orangzaib said:


> You have a US flag in your signatures but what you are saying goes entirely against the constitution of the United States and against the basic democratic process.
> 
> First, the US isn't China. No state is 'held by force' that you are 'freeing up' Texas and Hawaii. Its silly to say that. Second, just because you or a few others wish, no state can be 'freed' like this. In fact no state is in a contract by force either. The US's origins came from WE THE PEOPLE not through a government that puts a ban on its citizens using the Internet!!
> 
> WE the PEOPLE have the right to do what we want to, to have a state as a republic or not. So trust me, when We the PEOPLE will want Texas or Hawaii to be a separate republic, it will happen. That's the main difference between the United States and China, Syria, India, etc. WE the PEOPLE decide what to do, not a few of us as a small group, not the government and not the military. That's democracy. Now if you are going to silly question the American democracy, please take a look at the most recent US presidential elections. You'll find your answer there about 'We the People'!



Isn't orangzaib a Pakistani name?


----------



## Thorough Pro

I know where you are coming from, most Pakistani's criticised French ban on veil basically for three reasons

1 - France claims to be a free, democratic, and secular society (China is not considered a free and democratic country by western standards) hence a ban on veil in France (or any other western country) is not comparable to a ban in China 

2 - France banned Muslim veil because according to them it sort of creates differentiation on religious basis, but so does a Christian nuns dress including her head scarf, hence just banning the Muslim Veil is discrimination

3 - In case of France, US and other western countries were not exploiting Muslim population or their dress code to create turmoil in the state, but in case of China the same western countries who are spreading poisonous propaganda against Muslims, are exploiting the same Muslim religion by supporting, funding, training and sending terrorists in to China (Xinjiang) to create problems for China, to create problems in China-Pakistan relationship and at the same time spreading more propaganda against Islamic terrorism, which when they support such as in Libya and Syria, is termed as freedom fighters, when it goes against them as in Afghanistan is termed as terrorism.

So If you started this thread to see Pakistani members reaction to a problem (to which we reacted vehemently in case of France), you will not see such reaction, because its not the action it self, its the motive behind it that we criticised.

It's not like you Indians who talk about freedom of expression and press when western media humiliates Islamic figures, but goes crazy when Australian company prints Hindu goddess pictures on swim suits. 





Agnostic_Indian said:


> *A city in western China is trying
> reduce religious fervor by prohibiting
> people from wearing veils, traditional
> Arab dress, or growing long beards,
> Associated Press reports.
> "Dilute religious consciousness,
> advocate a civilized healthy life style,"
> the notice in the Dunmaili district of
> Yining in China's heavily Muslim
> western reaches read.
> The notice added the campaign's
> objective was "to completely get rid
> of the abnormal phenomenon in the
> entire community of minority ethnic
> women and youth wearing Arabian
> dress, growing beards and covering
> their faces in veils."
> The notice also called for stubborn
> individuals who refuse to give up their
> veils, Arab dress, or long beards to
> be educated, and "diehards" turned
> over to judicial departments.*
> Yining is in Xinjiang, a region home to
> the traditionally Muslim Uighur ethnic
> group. The region has occasionally
> seen religiously-motivated violent
> unrest.
> Tibetan Buddhists, Uighur Muslims
> and other minority faiths are generally
> allowed to wear their traditional dress.
> However, both groups have been
> targeted in political re-education
> campaigns following anti-government
> violence related to complaints over
> the lack of religious freedom in China.
> Xinjiang regional spokeswoman Hou
> Hanmin told AP by telephone that she
> was unaware of the campaign.
> "This is not consistent with the reality
> here," Hou said of the campaign,
> adding that it sounded "unrealistic."
> The notice from the Dunmaili district
> of Yining disappeared from the Yining
> government website Thursday after
> Western press inquiries, but remained
> available on a state-run news website.
> *Bans of face coverings and other
> forms of hijab are increasingly taking
> hold in Western countries where a
> failure to assimilate large numbers of
> Muslim immigrants has resulted in
> societal divisions and calls to
> supplant the indigineous mainstream
> Western culture and laws with the
> growing minorities' Islamic Sharia law.
> Both Tunisia and Turkey have bans on
> hijab in public schools, universities,
> and government buildings. Morocco
> has no official ban, but actively
> encourages women to eschew hijab.
> In all three countries hijab is seen as
> a symbol of political Islam rather than
> mere religious expression.*
> 
> 
> Chinese City Seeks Burqa Ban - Israel National News
> 
> I would like to seek comments from learned members like @Awesome, @Aeronaut, @Thorough Pro, @JonAsad
> @Raja.Pakistani @ChineseTiger1986
> 
> 
> @muse @Safriz
> @Developereo
> etc that how do you see this particular news of ban of burqa and beard in a city of Yining situated in Xinjiang region ? isn't it wrong for the city authorities curb the freedom of dressing ?How should the Muslims in there strive for their rights and self respect ? sure it's internal matter of China but I am sure you all will have an opinion about it and suggestions for the betterment of people there.

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## Götterdämmerung

Genesis said:


> In the Qing dynasty men had long hair. You guys here probably know what I'm talking about, if you don't google.
> 
> When China wanted Prussia help in military, Prussian advisors said if you have hair then no training. Is this a human right violation? Chinese people at that time feels very strong about the hair.
> 
> It may be, but with that cut, the Chinese founded the first modern army and regardless of what may have happened after, it is with that cut that started true westernization.
> 
> perhaps muslims should be allowed to keep their tradition n China. However China isn't muslim and cling to some old tradition will just slow progress. Muslims today are not in the center of things and it is because of tradition.
> 
> Old saying in China about Chinese artiliary is you need to ask permission to put the canon ball in again to say that's done and again to fire. By the time you can fire 5 shots would have already hit you.
> 
> China abandoned it's tradition, Russia abandoned it's. Truth be told, can you honestly say Europeans still have theirs? I'm sure suits were not made in the 1500s.



Before the industrialisation, European men wore long hair like this:






Due to the industrialisation long hair was not only out of fashion but dangerous when working in the factories. Fashion also had to change and adapt to the new and fast machines to avoid accidents. Short hairstyle for men has nothing to do for being western but rather a technological evolution demanded this.


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## Genesis

Götterdämmerung;4096173 said:


> Before the industrialisation, European men wore long hair like this:
> 
> Due to the industrialisation long hair was not only out of fashion but dangerous when working in the factories. Fashion also had to change and adapt to the new and fast machines to avoid accidents. Short hairstyle for men has nothing to do for being western but rather a technological evolution demanded this.



That's what I'm saying stop reliving past glories. It doesn't exist anymore. Look to the future. I'm against the idea that the Europeans forced their style and life on the rest. The European didn't do it, progress did. I though Muslims should be the ones to know this the most seeing as how China was only humiliated, but the middle east was their plaything. 

Also a tad off topic, I watched a video on western tourists that said that Lhasa was too developed now and that he didn't see the things he wanted. Does do Tibetans know this? You are a entertainment for the west, not Allies.

The sooner the Muslim in China adapt a Chinese way of life, the faster they will become richer. They say the best jobs don't go to them, that's because you would damage the business and image if they hired you as you are.


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## Developereo

Sanchez said:


> Don't make Xinjiang a Han vs Muslim issue.



I know that many Muslim groups in China have no problem with Han or vice versa. The issue with Uighurs is more complex than just religion; it involves ethnicity, culture, etc.

The City of Yining banning certain Islamic practices was a very stupid move because it turns the conflict into a religious conflict and plays straight into the hands of extremists.



zxmint said:


> What kind of actions do you mean?



The Uighurs don't have any voice in the Chinese media to present their side of the story. I agree that they should not seek secession, but their legitimate concerns about discrimination and cultural encroachment should be given due consideration instead of being brushed under the carpet.

Right now, it seems the Chinese media narrative is one-sided.



zxmint said:


> And you know what, China government are even exerting more tolerant laws on minorities and that is stupid since no criminals will feel grateful and this can only raise ethnic hatred.



I don't know how much you guys get to hear the Uighur side of the story, but we have seen documentaries which show the systematic erosion of Uighur property and rights in Xinjiang.

Do you know that Uighurs are forced to move out of their lands, their homes demolished, and they are required to move into apartment buildings? Sounds great and the government can claim that Uighurs are getting "free apartments", except that these "new" apartment buildings are so shoddily constructed by cheap contractors that paint and plaster is peeling off the "brand new" apartments before people even move in. Some of them look downright dangerous and unsafe.



Genesis said:


> In the Qing dynasty men had long hair. [...] military



The military is a closed system which has strict rules of conduct. Anybody joining the military agrees to abide by those rules. The discussion here is about ordinary civilians and their right to personal freedom.


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## Agnostic_Indian

Thorough Pro said:


> I know where you are coming from, most Pakistani's criticised French ban on veil basically for three reasons
> 
> 1 - France claims to be a free, democratic, and secular society (China is not considered a free and democratic country by western standards) hence a ban on veil in France (or any other western country) is not comparable to a ban in China


China is not contesting for a certificate for secularism against west nor the west is all honey and milk. if west has some hypocritic law you can call it hypocrisy from their part, but just because China has not made any tall claims doesn't mean if they do wrong, that doesn't become wrong because they don't claim to be doing right.Chinese Muslims and French Muslims suffered from same law(at least the French cited security concerns also ) but you criticise the ban in France not in China is your hypocrisy nothing else.


> 2 - France banned Muslim veil because according to them it sort of creates differentiation on religious basis, but so does a Christian nuns dress including her head scarf, hence just banning the Muslim Veil is discrimination


France did not prevent Muslim women from wearing a vail which is mandatory in Islam. once again if they did a hypocrisy you can criticise them for both, 1. hypocrisy/discrimination 2.restricting the religious/fashion freedom but you must criticise China for the second offense if you are not a hypocrite like French.


> 3 - In case of France, US and other western countries were not exploiting Muslim population or their dress code to create turmoil in the state, but in case of China the same western countries who are spreading poisonous propaganda against Muslims, are exploiting the same Muslim religion by supporting, funding, training and sending terrorists in to China (Xinjiang) to create problems for China, to create problems in China-Pakistan relationship and at the same time spreading more propaganda against Islamic terrorism, which when they support such as in Libya and Syria, is termed as freedom fighters, when it goes against them as in Afghanistan is termed as terrorism.


it is just an allegation that us send terrorists to China, you can criticise US For that also, I will also do if I get satisfactory evidence that US is doing it. But issue here is a law made by Chinese, not by US, which prevents it's own peoples religious and fashion freedom, if you believe the law indeed restricts religious freedom, you must criticise China for implementing the law, you can call France hypocrite, terror sponsor or what ever, we can talk about it in relevant thread in detail, but what ever France claim or did, or China did not claim, doesn't make a wrong law become right.


> So If you started this thread to see Pakistani members reaction to a problem (to which we reacted vehemently in case of France), you will not see such reaction, because its not the action it self, its the motive behind it that we criticised.



so the action has no relevance despite the fact that it prevents Islamic religious freedom ? btw motivation is same in both cases, only Franch claim of secular make it guilty of double standard also, which is absent in the case of China, but China is still guilty of restricting religious and fashion freedom, which you refuse to criticise because of your hypocrisy.


> It's not like you Indians who talk about freedom of expression and press when western media humiliates Islamic figures, but goes crazy when Australian company prints Hindu goddess pictures on swim suits.


we can discuss it that also in relevant thread, if we do discuss everything here, we will deviate from the topic.look at honest comments of muse, safriz,developro etc they criticise and appreciate things on their merits not by looking at who did it(except indo pak issues some times, but we are all same at it, at one point or other)even Zarvan I think is consistent in criticising things, people on their merit which he think is wrong, I don't agree with his opinion but at least he is consistent.

At the end of the day only one question remains from my side,* is the Chinese law bad and wrong which prevents religious and fashion and personal freedom ?* you can continue to accuse France and west for every things view do, everything they claim, every terror they sponsor, in fact i don't mind in this thread if you tell me every thing they do is wrong and hypocritic but I need your straight answer for the question I asked.


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## zxmint

Developereo said:


> I know that many Muslim groups in China have no problem with Han or vice versa. The issue with Uighurs is more complex than just religion; it involves ethnicity, culture, etc. Also, the article mentioned the City banning certain religious practices which brought the focus onto religion.
> 
> 
> 
> The Uighurs don't have any voice in the Chinese media to present their side of the story. I agree that they should not seek secession, but their legitimate concerns about discrimination and cultural encroachment should be given due consideration instead of being brushed under the carpet.
> 
> Right now, it seems the Chinese media narrative is one-sided.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know how much you guys get to hear the Uighur side of the story, but we have seen documentaries which show the systematic erosion of Uighur property and rights in Xinjiang.
> 
> Do you know that Uighurs are forced to move out of their lands, their homes demolished, and they are required to move into apartment buildings? Sounds great and the government can claim that Uighurs are getting "free apartments", except that these "new" apartment buildings are so shoddily constructed by cheap contractors that paint and plaster is peeling off the "brand new" apartments before people even move in. Some of them look downright dangerous and unsafe.
> 
> 
> 
> The military is a closed system which has strict rules of conduct. Anybody joining the military agrees to abide by those rules. The discussion here is about ordinary civilians and their right to personal freedom.



They are totally bullshiting lies. You could visit Xinjiang if you have chances and you will get to know the fact. I am a Chinese and I visit Xinjiang several times so I do not need to judge this issue by any kinds of "story". Xinjiang is much more peaceful when China government took strict and even ruthless policy in 50's, while the situation turn bad since some leaders' wrong policies which even show tolerance to Uighur murderers and terrorists.

And I suggest Pakistanis be prudent on this China's domestic issue. It is the core interest of China and any kind of foreign interference is unacceptable and unforgivable. There are a lot of Muslims in China while those small group of people who against China government are not bullied minorities but separatists and terrorists. Your own country is facing similar problems which are far more serious than ours so we'd better come to consensus on it in order to strengthen our cooperation and friendship.


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## Developereo

zxmint said:


> And I suggest Pakistanis be prudent on this China's domestic issue.



This has nothing to do with Pakistan or Australia. On this forum, we discuss human rights issues in many countries, including those in the West, Middle East, South Asia, Africa, etc. We discuss human rights abuses in Pakistan and India all the time. No one is singling out China and we are all agreed that separatism and terrorism are wrong. We are also agreed that this is not a religious conflict of China v/s Muslims, since many Muslim groups are fine within China.

However, for this conflict to resolve peacefully, it will take effort from both sides to stop seeing it as a Uighur-Han issue and to see it as a legitimate issue raised be fellow Chinese citizens.

For Uighurs, they have to renounce separatism and accept being part of China and Chinese culture without losing their own ethnic identity. For mainstream Chinese, they have to get past the demonization of Uighurs which seems so prevalent, and to accept that there are some legitimate issues being raised by their fellow citizens.

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## zxmint

Developereo said:


> This has nothing to do with Pakistan or Australia. On this forum, we discuss human rights issues in many countries, including those in the West, Middle East, South Asia, Africa, etc. We discuss human rights abuses in Pakistan and India all the time. No one is singling out China and we are all agreed that separatism and terrorism are wrong. We are also agreed that this is not a religious conflict of China v/s Muslims, since many Muslim groups are fine within China.
> 
> However, for this conflict to resolve peacefully, it will take effort from both sides to stop seeing it as a Uighur-Han issue and to see it as a legitimate issue raised be fellow Chinese citizens.
> 
> For Uighurs, they have to renounce separatism and accept being part of China and Chinese culture without losing their own ethnic identity. For mainstream Chinese, they have to get past the demonization of Uighurs which seems so prevalent, and to accept that there are some legitimate issues being raised by their fellow citizens.



Since hundreds of innocent citizens got killed in '7.5' event in 2009, at least it takes time for Han people to get a more friendly view on Uighur people. It was made by thousands of riots. Although a lot of the criminals were just incited by some real terrorists, this slaughter left very bad influence on the relationship between two peoples. It is unfair to blame China demonize Uighur, which is obviously untrue. No normal government in this world would demonize its own people. And there has always been foreign interference force behind those separatists so it is more like an international wrestle rather than a domestic ethnic or religious problem.


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## zxmint

Developereo said:


> This has nothing to do with Pakistan or Australia. On this forum, we discuss human rights issues in many countries, including those in the West, Middle East, South Asia, Africa, etc. We discuss human rights abuses in Pakistan and India all the time. No one is singling out China and we are all agreed that separatism and terrorism are wrong. We are also agreed that this is not a religious conflict of China v/s Muslims, since many Muslim groups are fine within China.
> 
> However, for this conflict to resolve peacefully, it will take effort from both sides to stop seeing it as a Uighur-Han issue and to see it as a legitimate issue raised be fellow Chinese citizens.
> 
> For Uighurs, they have to renounce separatism and accept being part of China and Chinese culture without losing their own ethnic identity. For mainstream Chinese, they have to get past the demonization of Uighurs which seems so prevalent, and to accept that there are some legitimate issues being raised by their fellow citizens.



And I think you might be a westerner inside. I really feel disgusted to hear any more hypocritical human rights talk from any western voice. Look at Mid-east, North Africa, look at Libya, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. What has westerners brought to these countries? Human rights???? It is the biggest lie in human beings' history. Westerners have long proved they don't care other countries people's life and death at all. Human rights are just their swords.

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## HongWu

orangzaib said:


> You have a US flag in your signatures but what you are saying goes entirely against the constitution of the United States and against the basic democratic process.
> 
> First, the US isn't China. No state is 'held by force' that you are 'freeing up' Texas and Hawaii. Its silly to say that. Second, just because you or a few others wish, no state can be 'freed' like this. In fact no state is in a contract by force either. The US's origins came from WE THE PEOPLE not through a government that puts a ban on its citizens using the Internet!!
> 
> WE the PEOPLE have the right to do what we want to, to have a state as a republic or not. So trust me, when We the PEOPLE will want Texas or Hawaii to be a separate republic, it will happen. That's the main difference between the United States and China, Syria, India, etc. WE the PEOPLE decide what to do, not a few of us as a small group, not the government and not the military. That's democracy. Now if you are going to silly question the American democracy, please take a look at the most recent US presidential elections. You'll find your answer there about 'We the People'!


I guess they don't teach you the American civil war


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## Developereo

zxmint said:


> Since hundreds of innocent citizens got killed in '7.5' event in 2009, at least it takes time for Han people to get a more friendly view on Uighur people. It was made by thousands of riots. Although a lot of the criminals were just incited by some real terrorists, this slaughter left very bad influence on the relationship between people of two ethnics. It is unfair to blame China demonize Uighur, which is obviously untrue. No normal government in this world would demonize its own people. And there has always been foreign interference force behind those separatists so it is more like an international wrestle rather than a domestic ethnic or religious problem.



Both your points are valid.

The (mental) wounds left by the Uighur militants' violence will take time to heal. The Chinese media can help by improving relations between communities.

Foreign agents will use this to create trouble. China should deal forcefully and decisively with all foreign troublemakers.


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## shuttler

asianamerican said:


> If often wonder why China doesn't go the assassianation route. Sure is painful in the short run, but most people have short memory and forget it about it after a few years. I mean look at the US. After annexing Hawaii and going to war constantly for the last 70 years, people still gush about supposed freedom and human rights. *China is not dirty enough. *
> 
> They need to be more like Americans and Israelis. If these people were on the opposite end of American's interest supporting separatism and terrorism, they would been killed by now.



us, israel and russia are experts in assasinations

Instead of putting the trouble makers behind bars, China has all of them exiled

the 2 figure heads are fairly old:

R Kadeer @ 67
D Lama @78

They are not too far away from their natural demise.


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## Raja.Pakistani

Genesis said:


> perhaps muslims should be allowed to keep their tradition n China. However China isn't muslim and *cling to some old tradition will just slow progress*. Muslims today are not in the center of things and it is because of tradition.
> .



I don't agree with bold part

what progress has anything to do with wearing certain clothes or keeping beard?

newton look weird according to modern standard or fashion







but his thinking was progressive and he was intelligent irrespective of his look or what he was wearing..so dress or beard are irrelevant as long as progress concern


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## longyi

Let's face it most of the infos we got concerning the Uyghur oppressions at home are either originated from the Voice of America or the oversea Uyghur separatists communities and both of them have axes to grind. Until we know the real situations on the ground we shouldn't so hastily to judge them as religious surppression. 

Going by the fact that China is a secular state and has her own ideologies of governing religious groups in China must work within the framework of the government/society, otherwise they have no chance to survive. These religious militants are not only hurting themselves and their religions they are hurting others as well. If that's their true intention then they deserve to be taken out of the mainstream society.

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## Genesis

I'm not trying to disrespect Muslims, in fact I really love the middle east style architecture. However Newton was wearing that because it was fashion, and it was 1600s. Today, Muslim dress is not the norm in much of the world and it's religious restrictions unfortunately hinder progress, don't take my word for it, but look who's invading who and who's asking who for help in the middle east. 

The uyghurs are Turks and if history is any indication, they can have a huge contribution to China and thus establish their place in China. No matter if they want to admit it or not, Being inside China gives them more benefits IF they want to. 

The minorities in China are not treated badly, powerless people are. However it is this cruel reality that has driven China kicking and screaming into the 21st century. Look at Tiananmen Square incident and the effect it had on policies, if not for Deng XiaoPing, to see that how much some people wanted China to remain the same.

There are great examples of minorities in China making it big, just like their Han counter parts, as long as they adopt the "same" customs as the Han chinese. (I use quotes, cause it's not really han customs, it's a way of life derived from necessity)


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## Raja.Pakistani

Genesis said:


> I'm not trying to disrespect Muslims, in fact I really love the middle east style architecture. However Newton was wearing that because it was fashion, and it was 1600s. Today, Muslim dress is not the norm in much of the world and it's religious restrictions unfortunately hinder progress, don't take my word for it, but look who's invading who and who's asking who for help in the middle east.



I never said that you are disrespecting Muslims. I was trying to find the reasons why you relate the progress of a society with their dress code or with beard or mustache. If Muslim countries got declined today then it was not because of beard or because of wearing certain clothes. when they were on peak then they were wearing same stuffs 

Progress of any society never depend on what they wear/eat or whether they keep beard or are clean shaved. Newton would remain progressive or intelligent even if he was wearing turban or had short hair or even bald


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## Da-Bang

Apparently Muslim lifestyles and cistoms are hindrance to progress.

Muslims should give up arab tribal ccustoms and. maybe bring out an updated version of quran to fit into han customs

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## Raja.Pakistani

Da-Bang said:


> Apparently Muslim lifestyles and cistoms are hindrance to progress.
> 
> Muslims should give up arab tribal ccustoms and. maybe bring out an updated version of quran to fit into han customs



yea you probably left indian culture and traditions and got adopted american western culture..

start celebrating Xmas instead of holi 

and women should give up sari


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## Genesis

Raja.Pakistani said:


> I never said that you are disrespecting Muslims. I was trying to find the reasons why you relate the progress of a society with their dress code or with beard or mustache. If Muslim countries got declined today then it was not because of beard or because of wearing certain clothes. when they were on peak then they were wearing same stuffs
> 
> Progress of any society never depend on what they wear/eat or whether keep beard or are clean shaved. Newton would remain progressive or intelligent even if he was wearing turban or had short hair or even bald



Well you just nailed it on the head, cause Muslims have been wearing this since their PEAK, would you say the peak is Ottoman? Or around the time of defeating Crusades, or defeating mongols? Either way, that was a long time ago. 

Thinking needs to be changed, the cloth by it self does nothing and it is true it matters little what one wears except for safety to factory work or something.

However, the cloth symbolizes old ideas and everything old. That's why China and Japan almost completely destroyed their own culture to become world powers. 

Would a clean shaven and suit wearing Arab person not be seen as a person that's progressive? A person with knowledge? A person that's capable?
@Da-Bang
I never said to fit into Han custom, and Suits are not invented in China or cars, or condos. I'm saying to fit into the main stream of the society, is that not the wish of most people?


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## Da-Bang

Genesis said:


> Well you just
> @Da-Bang
> I never said to fit into Han custom, and Suits are not invented in China or cars, or condos. I'm saying to fit into the main stream of the society, is that not the wish of most people?



It is the reaponsibility of a true Muslim to follow quran as they are made to believe it is word of god.

So if tomorow mainstream hans ask them to put China above islam they would not agree and revolt, simple.

Islam is supreme foe muslims and nationalisn is secondary.


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## Raja.Pakistani

Genesis said:


> Well you just nailed it on the head, cause Muslims have been wearing this since their PEAK, would you say the peak is Ottoman? Or around the time of defeating Crusades, or defeating mongols? Either way, that was a long time ago.
> *
> Thinking needs to be changed, the cloth by it self does nothing and it is true it matters little what one wears except for safety to factory work or something.*
> 
> However, the cloth symbolizes old ideas and everything old. That's why China and Japan almost completely destroyed their own culture to become world powers.
> 
> Would a clean shaven and suit wearing Arab person not be seen as a person that's progressive? A person with knowledge? A person that's capable?



I agree with bold part. I was referring to this when i mentioned word peak

Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

they have not reached at peak because of dress code or beard and they have not got declined because of dress code or beard..these things are irrelevant as long as progress or decline of a society/civilization concerned ..tell me if they have any relevance 

again you are saying china or japan got progress because they destroyed their culture but for me progress of china/japan has nothing to do with giving up their traditional clothes or start wearing suit tie or western clothes..economy, education,health care, productions, research, scientific inventions etc and all those things which are important for development of a country has nothing to do with dress code or with beard



Da-Bang said:


> It is the reaponsibility of a true Muslim to follow quran as they are made to believe it is word of god..


well It is the responsibility of a true hindus/sikhs/christian/bhuddist/jews to follow their scripture as they are made to believe it is word of God..

lol why just muslim


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## Genesis

Raja.Pakistani said:


> I agree with bold part. I was referring to this when i mentioned word peak
> 
> Islamic Golden Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> they have not reached at peak because of dress code or beard and they have not got declined because of dress code or beard..these things are irrelevant as long as progress or decline of a society/civilization concerned ..tell me if they have any
> relevance
> 
> again you are saying china or japan got progress because they destroyed their culture but for me progress of china/japan has nothing to do with giving up their clothes or start wearing suit tie or western clothes..economy, education,health care, productions, research, scientific inventions etc and all those things which are important for development of a country has nothing to do with dress code or with beard



One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.

He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.

However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?


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## Agnostic_Indian

re sending the invitation once again to 


@ChineseTiger1986 for his valuable inputs and waiting for the response of @Thorough Pro


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## Agnostic_Indian

Genesis said:


> One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.
> 
> He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.
> 
> However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?



good philosophy and it's true but it should remain as a good philosophy only because there is another reality that govt should not interfere in peoples dress code and fashion unless it endanger security, brings shame and disturbance to social life(like nudity, vulgarity etc ) , or at institutions like army , where uniformity and a discipline in necessary.


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## Genesis

Agnostic_Indian said:


> good philosophy and it's true but it should remain as a good philosophy only because there is another reality that govt should not interfere in peoples dress code and fashion unless it endanger security, brings shame and disturbance to social life(like nudity, vulgarity etc ) , or at institutions like army , where uniformity and a discipline in necessary.



Maybe we think differently, but like me most Chinese would be willing to sacrifice quite a lot for China to reach the top again. Hence the Chinese dream by Xi Jinping. 

That western powers were able to manipulate Chinese politics and invade and sanction and whatever at will is an insult to every hard working Chinese. Chinese national anthem says pretty much this.

I get the whole human rights thing. What do you consider endangered security? Is Syria not endangered? Is India and co not in perpetual civil war? Is Iraq, not defeated and occupied? What do you consider Shame? China forced to give up Hong Kong and pay huge amounts of money for losing? Chinese treasures in the hands of westerners? India being a colony? The emperor of India being British? Yesterday, the west invade in the name of the monarchy, today they come, like Napoleon, with their "liberty," "freedom." When is it enough to say that we won't tolerate it, the fact that we are having this conversation in English and not our native tongue should be proof enough of how far our "personal freedom" can take us.

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## Agnostic_Indian

Genesis said:


> Maybe we think differently, but like me most Chinese would be willing to sacrifice quite a lot for China to reach the top again. Hence the Chinese dream by Xi Jinping.
> 
> That western powers were able to manipulate Chinese politics and invade and sanction and whatever at will is an insult to every hard working Chinese. Chinese national anthem says pretty much this.
> 
> I get the whole human rights thing. What do you consider endangered security? Is Syria not endangered? Is India and co not in perpetual civil war? Is Iraq, not defeated and occupied? What do you consider Shame? China forced to give up Hong Kong and pay huge amounts of money for losing? Chinese treasures in the hands of westerners? India being a colony? The emperor of India being British? Yesterday, the west invade in the name of the monarchy, today they come, like Napoleon, with their "liberty," "freedom." When is it enough to say that we won't tolerate it, the fact that we are having this conversation in English and not our native tongue should be proof enough of how far our "personal freedom" can take us.



largely I have agree with most of the things you said, though It needs to be debated in relevant threads to come to a conclusion. 

here we should stay to xijiang. it's true that America used every tool, every platform available to get what they want from other countries, they always had double standards. 
Indian principle is unity in diversity, it think that is possible in China also.what harm wilt come if people are allowed to dress and practice their religion at their will and freedom ? why ask for such an un necessary sacrifice, which is counter productive ? 
who ever raise separatist slogans and create law and problem can be dealt with iron first, and China has more than required force and will to do so, and they face no opposition in doing so, unlike India where we have to deal with multiple regulators and opposition.
I see only advantages in allowing diversity. 
1. it builds confidence and loyalty in Muslims in the region.
2. once they feel their freedom is not taken away most people will settle down, and it reduces the scope of America or any other external powers to create trouble in the area by arming or funding them or by raising the issue in international forums.
3. securing the rights of Muslims will bring China closer to Arab nations and Pakistan, terror trouble from pak will be reduced.

I think I missed a point . endanger security means if people with full face cover Rome around the city/country the it helps terrorists,smugglers, or every body who do something illegal. even if you have a security camera footage, you can't do anything because his /her face is covered.


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## Sanchez

Developereo said:


> I know that many Muslim groups in China have no problem with Han or vice versa. The issue with Uighurs is more complex than just religion; it involves ethnicity, culture, etc.
> 
> The City of Yining banning certain Islamic practices was a very stupid move because it turns the conflict into a religious conflict and plays straight into the hands of extremists.
> 
> 
> 
> The Uighurs don't have any voice in the Chinese media to present their side of the story. I agree that they should not seek secession, but their legitimate concerns about discrimination and cultural encroachment should be given due consideration instead of being brushed under the carpet.
> 
> Right now, it seems the Chinese media narrative is one-sided.



The City of Yining doesn't make a policy of minorities, period. What information you got from non Chinese is false. Uyghurs' beards, dresses or customs are all preserved among them in China. 

Uyghurs believed, based on support of English, Russian and the Westerners, that they can establish an independent country in China. That's absolutely impossible, period. As a minority in China, they have very short history, thay are not natives and they have problems with the natives. They can't get alone with Hans and other native minorities including muslims of other ethnicity.

As I see it, if you guys are sympathetic to them, just take an effort to receive them. Not all uyghurs want to leave China...

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## Agnostic_Indian

China's grip on Xinjiang Muslims
by Quentin Sommerville ("BBC News," November 29, 2005)

Urumqi, China - The young men studying at the Islam College in Urumqi, near China's western border, sit ramrod straight listening intently to their teacher. 
Most hope one day to become imams in the many mosques of the Muslim-dominated Chinese region of Xinjiang. 
"I believe in Islam, I came here to deepen my faith, to learn more," said 24-year-old, Bolo Alashankur. 
"I learnt about Islam at home, from my family, but now I've come to the college for formal training," he said. 
But learning about Islam is difficult here. Almost 2,000 miles from the capital, Beijing, the curriculum of the Islam College must be approved by the ruling Communist Party. Imams must attend political education camps - the authorities even dictate which version of the Koran should be used. 
Ethnically Turkic Muslims, mainly in Xinjiang 
Made bid for independent state in 1940s 
Sporadic violence in Xinjiang since 1991 
Uighurs worried about Chinese immigration and erosion of traditional culture 
Human rights groups accuse China of conducting a campaign of repression against its Muslim minority, especially in Xinjiang. Despite a promise of religious freedom guaranteed in the constitution, in practical terms, few are at liberty to practise their faith as they would like. 
China's war on terror is concentrated on Xinjiang. The province borders eight separate countries. Foreign fighters, including members of the Taliban, have been captured here. 
At a press conference, Communist Party boss Wang Lequan warned that the province was under attack. 
"In Xinjiang the separatists, religious extremists and violent terrorists are all around us - they're very active. We deal with these criminals using the law. In China, endangering national security is the number one crime. We have to crack down on it severely," he said. 
Excuse 
But others have accused China of muddying the waters between religious extremism and religious freedom. The authorities are just as worried about the threat from within as from outside. 
"Fear is definitely pervasive in Xinjiang," said Nicolas Becquelin of pressure group Human Rights in China. 
"People from the Uighur community are very much at risk of being arrested, detained, tortured or sentenced to labour camps for anything the government equates to separatist feelings, or for holding religious activities," he said. 
At the central mosque in Urumqi, the sights and sounds are not entirely Muslim. The old mosque was knocked down a few years ago and replaced by a handsome brick building. But when it was rebuilt, it came with the addition of a shopping mall. Now the faithful pray above a KFC and next to a Carrefour supermarket. 
Those around the mosque are afraid to speak. Uighur men and women have been imprisoned for simply speaking to foreign journalists. 
The BBC was monitored by undercover policemen for most of our time in Xinjiang. We slipped away briefly and spoke to a Uighur who was unhappy about the redevelopment. 
"It really isn't appropriate," he said. "We come here to worship - but sometimes we can't hear our prayers because of the music and singing from the bazaar." 
Life is difficult for Muslims in Xinjiang, he said, warning that he could get into trouble for speaking to the BBC. 
"It's getting more and more difficult for us to earn money now. Uighurs are doing anything they can to make a living - there's no alternative," he said. 
Northern Xinjiang is rich and fertile, and it has oil. But Uighurs enjoy little of its riches, especially since China has flooded the province with Han Chinese. In 1950 Uighurs were 94% of the population - they are now less than half. 
This ethic dilution is denied by officials such as Yahfu Wumar, director of Urumqi's Religious and Ethnics Affairs Committee. 
"There's very little difference in the ethnic balance between now and the early 1950s," he said. 
"The central government established the "Go West" policy to bridge the economic gap between east and west China. It has brought entrepreneurs here - but it certainly isn't an issue of moving Han people to Xinjiang," he said. 
One of the few places where Uighur culture is celebrated in Urumqi is at a folk performance for tourists. But it is another fabrication - the gaudy costumes include glittering cowboy hats and most of the songs are sung in Chinese, not Uighur. 
Beijing says its priority is to stop religious extremism and terrorism in this far-off province. 
But critics say it is criminalizing an entire race of people, and that this repression will only radicalize those who want the freedom to pray and the chance to share in China's new-found riches.


China's grip on Xinjiang Muslims - WorldWide Religious News


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## Type 052D

Genesis said:


> One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.
> 
> *He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.*
> 
> However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?



You want the destruction of traditional Han culture!

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## Raja.Pakistani

Genesis said:


> One Chinese famous westernization supporter Kang Youwei said, if you can't even change you dress the least important of all reforms, than what does that say about the rest of the reforms.
> 
> He argued that western dress is clean and tighter and presents to the people that the country is on a new path, it gives people hope. He admit that other than appearance and a few advantages, the dress change is just for show.
> 
> However, he did add that if something minor like what to wear can't even be changed than how can something that would damage the privilege of the few be implemented?



My friend we both have two different opinions on this issue because for me you can make progress without changing your clothes or without giving up your identity/culture or without looking like westerners. There is a difference between modernization and westernization. I have nothing against western clothes because i also wear these clothes by choice but it don't change anything about my personality. Wearing Pakistani or English dress don't contribute anything towards my progress. We can wear westerner clothes but still you and me will look different because of our different race/ethnicity/skin color. 

If talibans start wearing suit tie or start shaving their beard then would they become developed ? answer is No. If western men start wearing salwar kameez or start keeping beard then would it stop their progress ? Answer is NO. I appreciate diversity and we may not call ourselves different if there is no difference in us. You don't need to copy anyone else as long as dress or look is concerned. People should be free to wear what they feel like wearing . They should try to please themselves not others. These are personal choices so what we are going to do next..give up Chinese/Pakistani food and start eating western foods for progress 

Personally I don't want to be like anyone else because I like that I am unique in many ways. I like to see different religions, cultures, heritages, unique clothing and ways of life out there. There have been so many people who have stepped outside of the box or been recognized as a maverick for something they did that was different. People should be able to come together to celebrate the differences of each others.


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## Genesis

Raja.Pakistani said:


> My friend we both have two different opinions on this issue because for me you can make progress without changing your clothes or without giving up your identity/culture or without looking like westerners. There is a difference between modernization and westernization. I have nothing against western clothes because i also wear these clothes by choice but it don't change anything about my personality. Wearing Pakistani or English dress don't contribute anything towards my progress. We can wear westerner clothes but still you and me will look different because of our different race/ethnicity/skin color.
> 
> If talibans start wearing suit tie or start shaving their beard then would they become developed ? answer is No. If western men start wearing salwar kameez or start keeping beard then would it stop their progress ? Answer is NO. I appreciate diversity and we may not call ourselves different if there is no difference in us. You don't need to copy anyone else as long as dress or look is concerned. People should be free to wear what they feel like wearing . They should try to please themselves not others. These are personal choices so what we are going to do next..give up Chinese/Pakistani food and start eating western foods for progress
> 
> Personally I don't want to be like anyone else because I like that I am unique in many ways. I like to see different religions, cultures, heritages, unique clothing and ways of life out there. There have been so many people who have stepped outside of the box or been recognized as a maverick for something they did that was different. People should be able to come together to celebrate the differences of each others.



So pretty much you just read the middle part of my post and ignore the rest where I said the cloth is not the point, it's the symbol of change. 

I didn't want to come out and just say it, because I think that Muslims take religion very seriously and I didn't want to appear racist or offend anyone, but the thing Kang youwei really wanted to change was the backwardness of the Chinese people before 1900s. The thing the cloth implies is that when your cloth changed, your way of life goes with it. 

So what I'm really saying is believe in Muslim, but don't take it word for word. Don't let it hinder progress, notice how the west is no longer a christian state even though they are still christian. Notice how China rose so fast when the cultural revolution destroyed any religion left in the already non existent religious beliefs of the Chinese people. 

Bottom line I'm just saying what I see from an outsider.

@type 053D
That already happened. Where have you been the last 100 years? Truthfully it was gone when the mongols invaded, and the Ming was started by a peasant, the Qing is another barbarian, the last truely Han dynasty was Song. That was a long time ago.

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## Agnostic_Indian

once again I have proved that it's not by looking at the merit and nature of things but by mere like or dislike to a certain country /people which drives the opinion of many members out here, it is not good for a healthy discussion. I hope everybody will take not of the situation here. thanks.


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## Agnostic_Indian

Experts and organizations promoting human rights and fundamental freedoms for the people of Xinjiang, Tibet and Inner Mongolia, as well as Chinese democracy activists and human rights defenders, met in Geneva from 11-13 March 2013, in a spirit of openness and common commitment to support the implementation of international human rights standards and norms by the People´s Republic of China.The conference &#8220;Promoting Human Rights, Democracy and Freedom in East Turkestan, Tibet, Southern Mongolia and the People´s Republic of China&#8221; was organized by the World Uyghur Congress, Society for Threatened Peoples and Unrepresented Nations and Peoples Organization.Rebiya Kadeer, the 2004 Rafto Prize laureate*from Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, China, is currently a President of the World Uyghur Congress. The Rafto Foundation has followed up Rebiya Kadeer and the issue of Uyghurs since the Rafto Prize award to Mrs. Kadeer in 2004.Anti-Terrorism measuresParticipants vividly bore witness to the worsening situation in Xinjiang, Tibet and Inner Mongolia since 2008, especially the aggressive use of Anti-Terrorism measures in Xinjiang and Tibet. The dramatic intensification of the police-state measures with its intrusive surveillance and brutal repression of dissent, peaceful expressions and peaceful assembly, military-occupation-style checkpoints and night-time house-to-house raids. *People also experience political executions, extrajudicial killings, custodial deaths, large-scale enforced disappearances, *arbitrary detention of young men and increased number of political prisoners in Xinjiang and Tibet, forced eviction of nomads into &#8216;Socialist Villages&#8217; in Tibet and Inner Mongolia, military occupation of Tibetan Buddhist monasteries, nunneries and religious institutions.Transfer of Chinese settlersIn addition to the continuing grave human rights violations, including torture, arbitrary arrests and unfair trials, China&#8217;s assimilationist education and employment policies themselves contain elements of cultural genocide. Today the policy of population transfer of Chinese settlers is one of the biggest threats to the very survival of the religious, cultural and national identity of Uyghurs, Tibetans and Mongolians.The conference discussed the increasing harshness of China&#8217;s policies and the government&#8217;s failure to recognize that these policies are causing unconscionable sufferings for Uyghurs, Tibetans and Mongolians in their homelands, and increasing ethnic tensions and grievances.United NationsThe conference called upon the international community and the United Nations human rights mechanisms to hold the government of China accountable for its systematic suppression of the rights of its citizens.In Geneva, Arne Liljedahl Lynngård, Rafto Advisor on Minority Issues in China, requested the international community to remind China&#8217;s new leadership that the Chinese government cannot escape from their duties which various international agreements regulate and which a sovereign state should obey.&#8220;China&#8217;s new leadership and the world community should be aware that if the impending threat to Uyghur, Tibetan and Mongolian cultural survival is not neutralized, the minority issue will continue to exist&#8221; Mr. Lynngård stated.Outreach to the Chinese peopleThe conference participants pledged to renew their efforts to build a common ground to act on short-term and long-term strategies that will address the current totally unacceptable situation. *They strongly agreed that such actions should follow parallel tracks, endorsing the idea that each people should work on its own behalf, as well as with others through joint initiatives, and in cooperation with international friends and supporters.Finally, the conference, while taking note of a growing number of Chinese who understand the suffering of Uyghurs, Tibetans and Mongolians, agreed that more outreach to the Chinese people is crucial.You can read the conference declaration*here.

The crisis in Xinjiang, Tibet and Inner Mongolia is a sign of a Chinese policy failure | Uyghur American Association

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## xuxu1457

At 13:30 on April 23, Kashi, Xinjiang Bachu County, Terrorist attack happend , 





15 civilian dead(Uygur 10,Han 3,Mongolian 2), injured 2 (Uygur); Then police killed 6 terrorists and arrested another 8 terrorists.
?????15???????????????_????_???


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## Silverblaze

merge this thread with one posted now.


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## qwerrty

those morons killing their won people

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## Chinese-Dragon

qwerrty said:


> those morons killing their won people



What else do you expect from these terrorists?

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## notsuperstitious

Sorry for the civilian loss.

Could someone post the details in english pls.

Unrest in China's Xinjiang kills 21 people: local official - Channel NewsAsia

Atleast this news item does not suggest a terrorist attack, but a police raid that went violent and the police claiming the people raided were plotting terrorist acts.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Rest in peace ... What are they trying to achieve killing their own people apart from some Hans as well ?

Death to the terrorists.

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## hurt

Three community services staffs find some persons like terrorists when they making home visits.
After they call his colleagues,they was kidnap by terrorists.
Some community services staffs came to help him ,but all kill by terrorists.
first arrived few polices all kill by terrorists.



fateh71 said:


> Sorry for the civilian loss.
> 
> Could someone post the details in english pls.
> 
> Unrest in China's Xinjiang kills 21 people: local official - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> Atleast this news item does not suggest a terrorist attack, but a police raid that went violent and the police claiming the people raided were plotting terrorist acts.



kill community services staffs is not terrorist attack?

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## Badbadman

Welcome to the party china.

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## hurt

Badbadman said:


> Welcome to the party china.



..............................

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## Badbadman

hurt said:


> F---u--------c-------k you



Down boy down

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## hurt

Badbadman said:


> Down boy down



..................

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## --,-'{@

hurt said:


> F---u--------c-------k you



he meant China too joins the list of countries bothered by terrorism. he put it in a wrong way ???

ok now time to grill n roast those 8 captured terrorists.

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## Jackdaws

That is sad. My condolences - all acts of terrorism must be condemned universally. What is the reason for this terror strike?


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## Badbadman

hurt said:


> Go to hell.



Didn't mean that am happy that there is a terrorist attack in china, but then remember who you support. C ya in hell

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## Fsjal

I am disgusted with these terrorists. All they do is harm people. 

RIP to the casualties

Down with terrorism

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## SamantK

Sad to hear... Even China is not being spared by the spread of this cancer.

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## Jade

Jackdaws said:


> That is sad. My condolences - all acts of terrorism must be condemned universally. What is the reason for this terror strike?



I think no reason except that their religion is the greatest and if you don't accept this 'fact' you will be killed.

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## Chinese-Dragon

samantk said:


> Sad to hear... Even China is not being spared by the spread of this cancer.



Every major country in the world is being hit with this menace.

Being a majority atheist nation I did not ever expect them to spare us.



nick_indian said:


> Rest in peace ... *What are they trying to achieve killing their own people apart from some Hans as well ?*



ETIM's stated goal is to create an Islamic state out of Xinjiang province, which they want to call East Turkestan. It is a combination of religious extremism and separatism.

East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Armstrong

Jade said:


> I think no reason except that their religion is the greatest and if you don't accept this 'fact' you will be killed.



Xinjiang Terrorism is more of an ethnic thing than a religious one hence the furor in Turkic Countries - The Hui aren't really doing anything neither are any other Chinese Muslims ! 

On topic - Rest in Peace & I hope they are rooted out ruthlessly !

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## Jackdaws

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Every major country in the world is being hit with this menace.
> 
> Being a majority atheist nation I did not ever expect them to spare us.
> 
> 
> 
> ETIM's stated goal is to create an Islamic state out of Xinjiang province, which they want to call East Turkestan. Combination of religious extremism and separatism.



Because clearly 50 odd Islamic states are not enough.

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## SamantK

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Every major country in the world is being hit with this menace.
> 
> Being a majority atheist nation I did not ever expect them to spare us.


Given the good realtions with Pakistan, I thought Pakistan would atleast put a leash on such elements gunning against China.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Every major country in the world is being hit with this menace.
> 
> Being a majority atheist nation I did not ever expect them to spare us.
> 
> 
> 
> ETIM's stated goal is to create an Islamic state out of Xinjiang province, which they want to call East Turkestan. It is a combination of religious extremism and separatism.
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Similar to Chechnya , Kashmir, Somalia, Afghanistan etc.



Jackdaws said:


> Because clearly 50 odd Islamic states are not enough.



I think it's 48 or 49


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## DANGER-ZONE

samantk said:


> Given the good realtions with Pakistan, *I thought Pakistan would atleast put a leash on such elements* gunning against China.



Aa gye apni oukat per ! Do Page kafi sakoon raha.
they are local or Tajik people, not Pakistani.

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## RajputWarrior

Armstrong said:


> Xinjiang Terrorism is more of an ethnic thing than a religious one hence the furor in Turkic Countries - The Hui aren't really doing anything neither are any other Chinese Muslims !
> 
> On topic - Rest in Peace & I hope they are rooted out ruthlessly !



I think it's a mixture of both. But the Pan Islamic ideology is definitely there. 

"ETIM continues this theme of contrasting "Muslims" and "Chinese", in a six minute video in 2008, where "Commander Seyfullah" warns Muslims not to bring their children to the 2008 Summer Olympics, and also saying "do not stay on the same bus, on the same train, on the same plane, in the same buildings, or any place the Chinese are". 

Hope China gets rid of these guys. Condolences to the victims.

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## hurt

@SURYA-1
We are only trying to say that there are only good people and bad people. There are no good Hindus, bad Hindus, good Christians, bad Christians. Either you are a good person or a bad person. Religion is not the criterion, humanity is. 

---------My Name Is Khan

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## Jade

Armstrong said:


> Xinjiang Terrorism is more of an ethnic thing than a religious one hence the furor in Turkic Countries - The Hui aren't really doing anything neither are any other Chinese Muslims !
> 
> On topic - Rest in Peace & I hope they are rooted out ruthlessly !



If you think it has nothing to do with religion that you are naive. 

First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

On topic - Yes the world will collectively root out Islamic terrorism ruthlessly! It is a menace to mankind on the planet.


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## Armstrong

Jade said:


> If you think it has nothing to do with religion that you are naive.
> 
> First East Turkestan Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> On topic - Yes the world will collectively root out Islamic terrorism ruthlessly! It is a menace to mankind on the planet.



I didn't say 'nothing' I said it has more to do with ethnicity than religious extremism - You forget the ETIM is just one player & it wasn't even there in the early '90s when the violence began ! Most of the Turkic Countries that diplomatically & in the past, allegedly, covertly have supported Uighur Separatism were Secular to the point of being Atheistic as was the case with most Soviet-Era Central Asian States.

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## imran169

@To some INdianx...why are you people trying to put islam in every matter? even if their is some sort of killing in personal issues in any country,you retarded people are the first to blame islam,this is islamic terrorism n blah blah...! if your criteria is this then there are sikh terrorists too in your country who fought for khalistan(though im not a supporter of this)...there are maoists..hindu terrorists too..shiv sena? or remember samjota express? why you mentally ill people are so obsessed with islam?
if some people in balochistan kills security personals or do anything else then you call them Separatists ,and when the same happens in Kashmir or some other areas of your country then you call it ISLAMIC TERRORISM..what a double standards of you indians...! and when comes to islam ,islam says IF YOU KILL ONE HUMAN ,IT MEANS YOU KILL WHOLE HUMANITY....now if you have any sense then dont call some personal actions of mentally ill muslims islamic TERRORISM...itna tou WEST nhe rota jitni taklif tm indians ko hoti hai..huh....and what happens in China May the souls of dead people RIP...we n obviously islam condemn this,may the people who does this Rot in hell..!

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## SamantK

danger-zone said:


> Aa gye apni oukat per ! Do Page kafi sakoon raha.
> they are local or Tajik people, not Pakistani.



Tumhari aukat yeh hai ki links bhi nahi padhte

East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> The East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) (also known as the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP), Turkistan Islamic Movement (TIM), and other names[a];* is a Waziri based mujahideen organization*.

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## imran169

Indian Terrorist Groups* |* MetaExistence Organization
daikh le apni okat b..hindu terrorists...



samantk said:


> Tumhari aukat yeh hai ki links bhi nahi padhte
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Spring Onion

ethnic tension.


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## Armstrong

Spring Onion said:


> ethnic tension.



And Religious Extremism - I read a wikileak once, which alleged, that the Chinese Authorities had contacted Pakistani Clerics (I think the Jamat-i-Islami) was mentioned to help them out with it ! I would imagine the 'help' would probably be in the form of counter-propaganda to root out religious extremism from there. Plus Pakistan did shut down two Uighur Settlements in Pakistan & conducted Army Operations against & killed Uighur Separatists in Tribal Areas.

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## SamantK

imran169 said:


> Indian Terrorist Groups* |* MetaExistence Organization
> daikh le apni okat b..hindu terrorists...



Aree tu to India ko le aaya beech main.. Nothin more can be expected. Stop quoting me.


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## Cheetah786

SURYA-1 said:


> Old saying all Muslims are not terrorists but almost all terrorists are Muslims.



B J P and shiv Sena arent Muslims parties and only represent Hindus Terrorist new saying should also include that..........

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## imran169

abey ye hindu terrorists group hain,unfortunately india means hindu..aik h tou country hai bs..ok now keep barking,im going..


samantk said:


> Aree tu to India ko le aaya beech main.. Nothin more can be expected. Stop quoting me.

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## notsuperstitious

hurt said:


> kill community services staffs is not terrorist attack?



Sorry for nitpicking, i have no sympathy for people who use violence. But a terrorist attack is a planned attack on civilians, in this case these people were discovered and they took their discoverers hostage and when help came the whole thing went violent.

They very well may be terrorists, but its difficult to call it a terrorist attack. They were discovered and taken out. Not much differene though. However it would be interesting to know what was their real target?

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## AUz

nick_indian said:


> I think it's 48 or 49



49 Muslim-majority strong states..
4-5 disputed states (Like Nigeria, some say Christians are majority, some say Muslims)..
2-3 Muslim 'plurality' states..(mean Muslims form the largest group but not majority)...

All in all, OIC is composed of 57 states...

But what does it has to do with the topic?

These terrorists are idiots,,,,I bet U.S/India is funding these guys ...no wonder U.S came in the region..

China should tighten its security, and give more rights/freedoms to Chinese Muslims living in the region...

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## Cheetah786

samantk said:


> Given the good relations with Pakistan, I thought Pakistan would at least put a leash on such elements gunning against China.



Not exactly a hidden secret Indian intelligence involvement in Afghanistan training terrorist to be used against pakistan are also training terrorist against china.

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## Hindustani

AUz said:


> 49 Muslim-majority strong states..
> 4-5 disputed states (Like Nigeria, some say Christians are majority, some say Muslims)..
> 2-3 Muslim 'plurality' states..(mean Muslims form the largest group but not majority)...
> 
> All in all, OIC is composed of 57 states...
> 
> But what does it has to do with the topic?
> 
> These terrorists are idiots,,,,I bet U.S/India is funding these guys ...no wonder U.S came in the region..
> 
> China should tighten its security, and give more rights/freedoms to Chinese Muslims living in the region...





Cheetah786 said:


> Not exactly a hidden secret Indian intelligence involvement in Afghanistan training terrorist to be used against pakistan are also training terrorist against china.



You'd be surprised where these terrorists are funded from. 
*



The East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) (also known as the Turkistan Islamic Party (TIP), Turkistan Islamic Movement (TIM), and other names; is a Waziri based mujahideen organization.

Click to expand...

*
East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## SamantK

Cheetah786 said:


> Not exactly a hidden secret Indian intelligence involvement in Afghanistan training terrorist to be used against pakistan are also training terrorist against china.



Possible, but I'll not ask for proofs because there is none.

However, the origin points to Pakistan and that's bad for Pakistan.

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## SURYA-1

hurt said:


> @SURYA-1
> We are only trying to say that there are only good people and bad people. There are no good Hindus, bad Hindus, good Christians, bad Christians. Either you are a good person or a bad person. Religion is not the criterion, humanity is.
> 
> ---------My Name Is Khan



I can only wish that one day your words becomes true.



Cheetah786 said:


> B J P and shiv Sena arent Muslims parties and only represent Hindus Terrorist new saying should also include that..........



Only in your wet dreams.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Hindustani said:


> You'd be surprised where these terrorists are funded from.
> *
> *
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Why is Pakistan harbouring terrorists from China ?

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## INDIC

Cheetah786 said:


> Not exactly a hidden secret Indian intelligence involvement in Afghanistan training terrorist to be used against pakistan are also training terrorist against china.



China never blamed India but blamed Pakistan in the past.


Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists &#8211; The Express Tribune
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/world/asia/02china.html?_r=0
Report: China concerned about Uyghur rebels operating in Pakistan by Zia Ur Rehman

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## Hindustani

nick_indian said:


> Why is Pakistan harbouring terrorists from China ?



You mean for China? Beats me, they still haven't banned it as a terrorist organization.


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## Gandhi G in da house

AUz said:


> 49 Muslim-majority strong states..
> 4-5 disputed states (Like Nigeria, some say Christians are majority, some say Muslims)..
> 2-3 Muslim 'plurality' states..(mean Muslims form the largest group but not majority)...
> 
> All in all, OIC is composed of 57 states...
> 
> But what does it has to do with the topic?
> 
> These terrorists are idiots,,,,I bet U.S/India is funding these guys ...no wonder U.S came in the region..
> 
> China should tighten its security, and give more rights/freedoms to Chinese Muslims living in the region...



So that's 49 muslim majority countries as of now. Anyway that's not the topic.


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## Speeder 2

Zero tolerance for terrorism!

China is not soft touch USA. You mess with China, you mess with Nationalist PLA and their type95 alongwith all the goodies!

Blood for blood. Round 'em up, kill 'em all!

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## Cheetah786

samantk said:


> Possible, but I'll not ask for proofs because there is none.
> 
> However, the origin points to Pakistan and that's bad for Pakistan.




Indian claiming it points to pakistan how original the fact Indian intelligence is busy in Afghanistan training and funding extremist means nothing. 

China's Xinjiang says 'terrorist' axe, knife and arson attack kills 21

April 24, 2013

REUTERS

BEIJING--A confrontation involving axes, knives, at least one gun and ending with the burning down of a house left 21 people dead in China's troubled far-west region of Xinjiang, a government spokeswoman said on April 24, calling it a "terrorist attack".

Nine residents, six police and six ethnic Uighurs were killed in the violence on April 23, said Hou Hanmin, spokeswoman for the Xinjiang government.

It was not immediately clear how many burnt to death.

Hou did not name any group, but China has blamed previous attacks in energy-rich Xinjiang - strategically located on the borders of Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Central Asia--on Islamic separatists who want to establish an independent East Turkestan.

Many Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking Muslim people native to Xinjiang, chafe at Chinese controls on their religion, language and culture.

Three "community workers" were patrolling a neighborhood of Bachu County, known as Maralbexi by Uighurs, in Kashgar after a tip-off that there were "suspicious people" in a private house, Hou said.

One of the three used a phone to call for help after they found a number of knives, resulting in their being killed by 14 Uighur "rioters" in the house, Hou said.

"The community people were just conducting regular checks, but the action from the rioters was planned and well prepared," Hou said. "It's certainly a terrorist attack."

Several police and other "community workers" came in different groups to the home where the Uighurs used axes and large knives to slash the police officers and workers, Hou said.

Only one police officer was armed with a gun, she said.

The battle ended with the gang members burning down the house, killing the rest of the people there, Hou said. Eight people had been detained.

Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the exiled World Uyghur Congress, said the violence was sparked by the shooting and killing of a young Uighur by "Chinese armed personnel", prompting the Uighurs to fight back.

"To suppress the fight among the Uighurs, China can engage in arbitrary shootings," Raxit said in an emailed statement.

many rights groups say China overstates the threat to justify its tight grip on the region.

could some one explain to me how is this being called a terrorist attack?


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## A.Rafay

RIP to the dead! Hope China sorts out this Religio-ethnic tension!

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## Cherokee

danger-zone said:


> Aa gye apni oukat per ! Do Page kafi sakoon raha.
> they are local or Tajik people, not Pakistani.



ETIM is Trained and Equipped in Pakistan .

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/247927-kids-filmed-firing-heavy-arsenal-terror-training-camp-pakistan.html

Watch how they treat Kids .


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## Cheetah786

SURYA-1 said:


> ouch did that hurt.


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## Speeder 2

fateh71 said:


> Sorry for the civilian loss.
> 
> Could someone post the details in english pls.
> 
> Unrest in China's Xinjiang kills 21 people: local official - Channel NewsAsia
> 
> Atleast this news item does not suggest a terrorist attack, but a police raid that went violent and the police claiming the people raided were plotting terrorist acts.



It is not so called "unrest" by the likes such as CNN or BBC. 

If some are "unrest", they usually go to a coffeeshop or a gym and chill out.

It is terrorism, as pure and as simple as that.


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## Cheetah786

Cherokee said:


> ETIM is Training and Equipped in Pakistan .



100s of Indian consulates all along the border killing 2 birds with 1 stone


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## Armstrong

Wait @Cheetah786 did the news excerpt say they used 'axes' & 'knives' & 'a gun' - Very benign compared to the vermin who kill our people ! 

I dunno if this could be religious extremism or even terrorism per se - Al Qaeeda is usually a lot more violent than that !

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## Cherokee

Cheetah786 said:


> 100s of Indian consulates all along the border killing 2 birds with 1 stone




Yep . Its Killing Two birds with One stone . Attacking Afghanistan and When Situation permits Xinjiang .

China is concerned and Pakistan has assured actions against these groups 

Growing Concern in China Over Role of Militant Group East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) in Xinjiang and Its Hideouts In Pakistan

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## Cheetah786

Armstrong said:


> Wait @Cheetah786 did the news excerpt say they used 'axes' & 'knives' & 'a gun' - Very benign compared to the vermin who kill our people !
> 
> I dunno if this could be religious extremism or even terrorism per se - Al Qaeeda is usually a lot more violent than that !



This is domestic disturbance and has nothing to do with terrorism.These people were attacked and only had knifes and axes to fight with back with how is that a bloody terrorist attack? But i do like our Indian friends having orgasm with this news

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## Cherokee

Armstrong said:


> Wait @Cheetah786 did the news excerpt say they used 'axes' & 'knives' & 'a gun' - Very benign compared to the vermin who kill our people !
> 
> I dunno if this could be religious extremism or even terrorism per se - Al Qaeeda is usually a lot more violent than that !



ETIM is not powerful enough for anything in Xinjiang . Plus getting weapons there is not easy . ETIM terrorists today are Fighting in Pak Afghan Borders and Syria .


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## Hindustani

deleted..................


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## Cheetah786

Cherokee said:


> Yep . Its Killing Two birds with One stone . Attacking Afghanistan and When Situation permits Xinjiang .
> 
> China is concerned and Pakistan has assured actions against these groups
> 
> Growing Concern in China Over Role of Militant Group East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) in Xinjiang and Its Hideouts In Pakistan



yes we have promised and carried out attacks against Indian trained terrorist in Fata and Baluchistan areas .


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## SURYA-1

Cheetah786 said:


> ouch did that hurt.



Why will that hurt??

Learn to distinguish fact from fiction.


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## Juice

It is not the commenters who bring Islam into these acts....it is almost always the terrorist themselves. If you want to be mad about it, be mad at them.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Juice said:


> It is not the commenters who bring Islam into these acts....it is almost always the terrorist themselves. If you want to be mad about it, be mad at them.



It is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these Islamic extremist groups, after all they are the biggest victims of these groups.

The East Turkestan Islamic Movement causes a headache for us, but it's nothing compared to the groups that operate in the Middle East, killing at whim.

The whole world needs to unite against this menace.

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## Cheetah786

SURYA-1 said:


> Why will that hurt??
> 
> Learn to distinguish fact from fiction.



Indeed and the fact supports my statement shiv Sena and BJP are well known Hindu terrorist. Fiction only Muslims are terrorist there is countless non Muslim terrorist since this isn't the topic i would leave it at that.

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## Cherokee

Cheetah786 said:


> yes we have promised and carried out attacks against Indian trained terrorist in Fata and Baluchistan areas .



Indian Trained . You must have been missing a Boatload of things . Indian Money would have been Stretched but Arguably Valid Statement but Indian Training etc is Stupid .


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## RoYaL~GuJJaR

May the deceased Rest In Peace!!

May the terrorists Rot In Hell!!

China should crush these terrorists before they get out of control.


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## Cheetah786

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these Islamic extremist groups, after all they are the biggest victims of these groups.
> 
> The East Turkestan Islamic Movement causes a headache for us, but it's nothing compared to the groups that operate in the Middle East, killing at whim.
> 
> The whole world needs to unite against this menace.



Most victims of terrorist so far has been Muslims and if u seen most terrorist related threads most Muslims on this or any other forum do condemn these heinous acts.

Fact remains dictators have used extremism to stay in power plus super power is also using these extremist all over the world to destabilize or remove unfriendly nations or their rulers also called as bringing freedom to the locals . Tiananmen Square protests of 1989, also known as the June Fourth Incident in Chinese, were student-led popular demonstrations in Beijing it had nothing to do with Muslims but students were encourages by pro democracy advocates.



Cherokee said:


> Indian Trained . You must have been missing a Boatload of things . Indian Money would have been Stretched but Arguably Valid Statement but Indian Training etc is Stupid .



right Indian consulates all along pakistan afghans border are there to promote Indian businesses and offer visa services between pakistan and Afghanistan clearly i am the stupid one here.

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## DANGER-ZONE

samantk said:


> Tumhari aukat yeh hai ki links bhi nahi padhte
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Well who knows the rapists in India also had training from Waziristan. Pakistan is causing danger for every single country on earth, even the penguins of Antarctica are not safe today.

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## SURYA-1

Cheetah786 said:


> Indeed and the fact supports my statement shiv Sena and BJP are well known Hindu terrorist. Fiction only Muslims are terrorist there is countless non Muslim terrorist since this isn't the topic i would leave it at that.



For your enlightenment.
BJP is main opposition party in India and if it was terrorist outfit then it would have been already banned by Congress.Same is the case with Shiv Sena.

Did you say countless non muslim outfits ???but I can only remember only two.

Now let us count Muslim terrorist outfits
IM previously known as SIMI.JKLF,al-Qaieda,Jaish a Muhammad,Hezbollah,Lasker e Taiba , Chechen , militants in Bosnia ,FSA are only few to name.
For details visit
Wiki


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## Cherokee

Cheetah786 said:


> right Indian consulates all along pakistan afghans border are there to promote Indian businesses and offer visa services between pakistan and Afghanistan clearly i am the stupid one here.



India has 4 consulates in Afghanistan , Just Like Pakistan . They are located in Herat, Mazar-i-Sharif, Kandahar and Jalalabad . Where are Indian Consulates "All Along" Pak-Afghan Border ??


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## Psyops

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these Islamic extremist groups, after all they are the biggest victims of these groups.
> 
> The East Turkestan Islamic Movement causes a headache for us, but it's nothing compared to the groups that operate in the Middle East, killing at whim.
> 
> The whole world needs to unite against this menace.



Stop acting like a clown. Most of the Islamic world is our friend apart from a couple of countries. The Christian world is firmly against us. Just because a few bad apples do something don't go around blaming all our friends and insulting their religion. By saying crap about the Muslims you are insulting our friends in Pakistan and Iran.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Psyops said:


> Stop acting like a clown. Most of the Islamic world is our friend apart from a couple of countries. The Christian world is firmly against us. Just because a few bad apples do something don't go around blaming all our friends and insulting their religion. By saying crap about the Muslims you are insulting our friends in Pakistan and Iran.



Insulting religion? Is criticizing Islamic extremists and terrorists like ETIM the same as criticizing a religion?

Do you agree with the Chinese government restrictions on Islamic activities in Xinjiang?

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## Sergi

Loss of Civilian life..... RIP ;(
Hope China dig the roots and find the water tap that is feeding this weed in its land. 

*Any new theories coming up or not ??? Like Chinese government killing Chinese people and blaming it on particular religion to call them terrorists???*


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## SURYA-1

Sergi said:


> Loss of Civilian life..... RIP ;(
> 
> *Any new theories coming up or not ??? Like Chinese government killing Chinese people and blaming it on particular religion to call them terrorists???*


Likes of @Windjammer, and @Umair Nawaz are still not around so no such theories till now.

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## BigDaddyWatch

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these Islamic extremist groups, after all they are the biggest victims of these groups.
> 
> The East Turkestan Islamic Movement causes a headache for us, but it's nothing compared to the groups that operate in the Middle East, killing at whim.
> 
> The whole world needs to unite against this menace.



I don't think its right to blame all Muslims whenever something happens. We cannot judge a entire people and religion of 1,4 billion people based on the actions of a few. And we also need to do more to look into the grievences that these people have.

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## INDIC

Cheetah786 said:


> Indeed and the fact supports my statement shiv Sena and BJP are well known Hindu terrorist. Fiction only Muslims are terrorist there is countless non Muslim terrorist since this isn't the topic i would leave it at that.



BJP and Shiv Sena are much cleaner than your mainstream political parties like PPP, ANP or MQM who has armed wing and led the reign of terror in Karachi.


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## rajvoSa

It's funny how these govr like China and their suporters critisize US and their foreign policy based on "war on terror". But use the same "war on terror" discourse when it suits them.

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## Chinese-Dragon

BigDaddyWatch said:


> I don't think its right to blame all Muslims whenever something happens. We cannot judge a entire people and religion of 1,4 billion people based on the actions of a few. And we also need to do more to look into the grievences that these people have.



Of course.

Which is why I said it is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these extremists and terrorists, since they are the ones being hit the most.

Look at these terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. The Government needs to crack down again.

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## Dillinger

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Of course.
> 
> Which is why I said it is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these extremists and terrorists, since they are the ones being hit the most.
> 
> Look at these terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. The Government needs to crack down again.



My condolences for the loss of your compatriots brother. I had thought that violence in the region had subsided? I believe that unfortunately the civilian casualties from this heinous incident have gone up to 21? Could you tell us something about these terrorist groups?


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## Peregrine

nick_indian said:


> Rest in peace ... What are they trying to achieve killing their own people apart from some Hans as well ?
> 
> Death to the terrorists.



As weird as it sounds the actual target of the terrorism are not the immediate victims rather the masses who will hear about the news of these attacks later on. You can say that the terrorists employ scare tactics.......with such sensless killings they force the people into thinking that the government machinery has failed in protecting their interests. ( I am glad that I took International terrorism as a course during my masters)

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## Psyops

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Insulting religion? Is criticizing Islamic extremists and terrorists like ETIM the same as criticizing a religion?
> 
> Do you agree with the Chinese government restrictions on Islamic activities in Xinjiang?



I would ban all religions. Just look at Iraq, they kill each other just because they worship a subsection of the same religion and dividing the country. The Christians go around killing the Muslims. I'm an atheist. The spread of religion in China will ruin China and eventually divide China among religious groups. The CCP has done an appalling job controlling the spread of religion in China. 

The west has been trying to spread Christianity (underground churches) like they spread it in South Korea to be sympathetic towards the western ideals. Some Muslim countries have not been criticising terrorist activities inside China like turkey.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Psyops said:


> I would ban all religions. Just look at Iraq, they kill each other just because they worship a subsection of the same religion and dividing the country. The Christians go around killing the Muslims. I'm an atheist. The spread of religion in China will ruin China and eventually divide China among religious groups. The CCP has done an appalling job controlling the spread if religion in China.
> 
> The west has been trying to spread Christianity (underground churches) like they spread it in South Korea to be sympathetic towards the western ideals. Some Muslim countries have not been criticising terrorist activities inside China like turkey.



Agreed. Christianity is more dangerous in my opinion, but I would prefer to keep them both out.

We have enough problems to deal with already.


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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Of course.
> 
> Which is why I said it is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these extremists and terrorists, since they are the ones being hit the most.
> 
> Look at these terrorist attacks in Xinjiang. The Government needs to crack down again.



We do...its just that most of the time we believe the response to dealing with it should be much more different instead of one that may alienate the silent majority, give a narrative to the terrorist to exploit & allow them to dig their heels in a quasi people's war & that the causes of terrorism are a lot more complicated than a simple 'Must Destroy America' utterance ! 

P.S We still don't know whether it was the ETIM in this case or not & as I observed earlier on - Knives, a single firearm & axes don't really seem like the weapons of choice for Al-Qaeeda linked Militants ! Either our cooperation is working out better than we - on the outside - know or these weren't Muslim Extremist as opposed to being just disgruntled Uighurs that got caught by the security forces & decided to retaliate with knives, axes & a gun !

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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> We do...its just that most of the time we believe the response to dealing with it should be much more different instead of one that may alienate the silent majority, give a narrative to the terrorist to exploit & allow them to dig their heels in a quasi people's war & that the causes of terrorism are a lot more complicated than a simple 'Must Destroy America' utterance !
> 
> P.S We still don't know whether it was the ETIM in this case or not & as I observed earlier on - Knives, a single firearm & axes don't really seem like the weapons of choice for Al-Qaeeda linked Militants ! Either our cooperation is working out better than we - on the outside - know or these weren't Muslim Extremist as opposed to being just disgruntled Uighurs that got caught by the security forces & decided to retaliate with knives, axes & a gun !



Fair enough.

What do you think would be a better method of destroying the terrorists in Xinjiang? 

Government crackdowns create resentment, but what are the alternatives? 

The Government needs to sweep them out within the next 5-10 years... or there is going to be a serious problem.

Same with the underground churches. They need to be swept away.

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## Windjammer

SURYA-1 said:


> Likes of @Windjammer, and @Umair Nawaz are still not around so no such theories till now.





SURYA-1 said:


> Old saying all Muslims are not terrorists but almost all terrorists are Muslims.


 @SURYA-1 

You alone are enough to generate all the nonsense.....lest some one like Sajjan Kumar has converted. !!

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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> What do you think would be a better method of destroying the terrorists in Xinjiang?
> 
> Government crackdowns create resentment, but what are the alternatives?
> 
> The Government needs to sweep them out within the next 5-10 years... or there is going to be a serious problem.
> 
> Same with the underground churches. They need to be swept away.



I don't know....I'm sure the relevant authorities would be exponentially more qualified in finding a solution ! 

I can tell you what I've heard our Military & Civilian Executives who have served in our trouble spots observe - That Goodwill amongst the People is the largest deterrent against Extremism ! I heard a Brigadier once comment that his Brigade had a larger budget than the entire education budget of Waziristan (North & South - a few million people) combined & yet the few Poly-Technic Institutes, Cadet Colleges, the development of a quasi-Highway in an otherwise cut-off area & Rehabilitation Centers that the Pakistan Army had helped established there left a more lasting impression on the local populace than any amount of Military Operations did. 

I'm sure China's dynamics are unique & I'm sure there is plenty of Economic Opportunities there so its probably not deprivation & so one has to look whether there is some merit in their (Uighur's) perceived marginalization in an ethnic, linguistic or cultural sense or perhaps even a religious sense, at the hands of the majority ethnicity & dominant culture or narrative of China ! 

Perhaps a more inclusive approach that builds greater goodwill amongst the Uighur's would be the way to go....perhaps not ! I'm sure the Chinese Officials are more than competent to chart out a course of action to relieve these troubled spots of these 'troubles'. 

But I'm also sure that goodwill & engaging people goes a long way & using force is not always productive - We've learned that the very hard way in Baluchistan & our other troubled areas !

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## Huda

SURYA-1 said:


> Old saying all Muslims are not terrorists but almost all terrorists are Muslims.



Terrorists are present in every corner of world.

You should look the causes of terrorism in muslim countries.And u hindus are not dhood k dhule.

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## SURYA-1

Windjammer said:


> @SURYA-1
> 
> You alone are enough to generate all the nonsense.....lest some one like Sajjan Kumar has converted. !!



I think you glossed over the link I posted earlier. 
So once more for u, here is the link.
List of Terrorist Outfits Around The World



Mirzay said:


> Terrorists are present in every corner of world.
> 
> You should look the causes of terrorism in muslim countries.And u hindus are not dhood k dhule.


You can also click on the link.


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## Huda

SURYA-1 said:


> You can also click on the link.



Maybe @Windjammer has stamina to hit his head with wall but i know what u people (indians) are, and what sort of mentality you have.

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## bangbros

Psyops said:


> I would ban all religions. Just look at Iraq, they kill each other just because they worship a subsection of the same religion and dividing the country. The Christians go around killing the Muslims. I'm an atheist. The spread of religion in China will ruin China and eventually divide China among religious groups. The CCP has done an appalling job controlling the spread of religion in China.
> 
> The west has been trying to spread Christianity (underground churches) like they spread it in South Korea to be sympathetic towards the western ideals. Some Muslim countries have not been criticising terrorist activities inside China like turkey.



dude i dont believe if ur a christian u will be sympathetic to western power ,as a christian myself i do follow the words of our holy book it says the only living god is ur mother and to me both a mother who gives life and motherland who gives shelter,food are one and the same.u cant achieve peace if u stop respecting any one of them


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## Chinese-Dragon

bangbros said:


> dude i dont believe if ur a christian u will be sympathetic to western power ,as a christian myself i do follow the words of our holy book it says the only living god is ur mother and to me both a mother who gives life and motherland who gives shelter,food are one and the same.just my view



I'd just prefer to keep China either majority atheist or followers of native religions and philosophies.

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## SURYA-1

Mirzay said:


> Maybe @Windjammer has stamina to hit his head with wall but i know what u people (indians) are, and what sort of mentality you have.


Ran out of arguments ??
Blank statements based on your assumptions, without backing of any facts won't take you anywhere.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'd just prefer to keep China either majority atheist or followers of native religions and philosophies.



Do you mean you don't consider Islam as a native religion of China ??


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## Developereo

RIP to the victims.

Have any of the criminals been linked to a terrorist organization or cause. Is it related to the Xinjiang issue, or a case of common criminals?


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## Windjammer

SURYA-1 said:


> Ran out of arguments ??
> Blank statements based on your assumptions, without backing of any facts won't take you anywhere.



Here add this to the list and put a lid on it.

Saffron terror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Soryu

Badbadman said:


> Didn't mean that am happy that there is a terrorist attack in china, but then remember who you support. C ya in hell



Well, you should not expect better from Chinese, they are very vulnerability ....


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## ChinaToday

Chinese-Dragon said:


> It is the Muslims themselves who should be the most angry at these Islamic extremist groups, after all they are the biggest victims of these groups.
> 
> The East Turkestan Islamic Movement causes a headache for us, but it's nothing compared to the groups that operate in the Middle East, killing at whim.
> 
> The whole world needs to unite against this menace.



Stop blaming muslims , islam doesn't create terrorism America foreign policy in Islamic countries that is what created terroism

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChinaToday said:


> Stop blaming muslims , islam doesn't create terrorism America foreign policy in Islamic countries that is what created terroism



Firstly I never blamed Muslims.

Secondly, stop apologizing for those who kill our citizens. ETIM are Islamic terrorists, everyone knows that.

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## Backbencher

RIP a sad incident indeed 
I guess Antarctica is the only place left now where a human feels safe


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## SURYA-1

Windjammer said:


> Here add this to the list and put a lid on it.
> 
> Saffron terror - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



These are mere reaction to Islamic terrorism in India and all are cases of lone foxes nothing like Saffron terrorist outfits.Your link itself suggest it is controversial phrase and is used synonymously for only anti-muslim reprisals, ie jehad against jehad.

And one more thing none of the convicts of Samjahuta blast or Hyderabad have been proven guilty yet.


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## Juice

Speeder 2 said:


> Zero tolerance for terrorism!
> 
> China is not soft touch USA. You mess with China, you mess with Nationalist PLA and their type95 alongwith all the goodies!
> 
> Blood for blood. Round 'em up, kill 'em all!


 Yeah, we are suuuch a soft touch. Shall we go into what we did in response to terror attacks vs. what China has done?


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## Juice

ChinaToday said:


> Stop blaming muslims , islam doesn't create terrorism America foreign policy in Islamic countries that is what created terroism



And so they attacked China? You sure make a lot of sense.

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## Developereo

Terrorist axe, knife and arson attack kills 21 in China's Xinjiang | Reuters



> Three "community workers" were patrolling a neighborhood [...] after a tip-off that there were "suspicious people" in a private house, Hou said.
> 
> One of the three used a phone to call for help after they found a number of knives, resulting in their being killed by 14 Uighur "rioters" in the house, Hou said.
> [...]
> Several police and other "community workers" came in different groups to the home where the Uighurs used axes and large knives to slash the police officers and workers, Hou said.
> [...]
> The battle ended with the gang members burning down the house, killing the rest of the people there, Hou said. Eight people had been detained.



Sounds like a confrontation started by overzealous "community workers" who decided to enter and search private property because "suspicious" Uighurs lived there.

In any case , it is a case of gang violence at worst, not planned terrorism.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Developereo said:


> Terrorist axe, knife and arson attack kills 21 in China's Xinjiang | Reuters
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like a confrontation started by overzealous "community workers" who decided to enter and search private property because "suspicious" Uighurs lived there.
> 
> In any case , it is a case of gang violence at worst, not planned terrorism.



So, do you think the Chinese government and state media are wrong for saying they are "terrorists"?


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## SURYA-1

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So, do you think the Chinese government and state media are wrong for saying they are "terrorists"?



He must be entitled to his opinion , that should bother your government the least.


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## Developereo

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So, do you think the Chinese government and state media are wrong for saying they are "terrorists"?



Are they linked to any terrorist organization?
Were they fighting for a political cause?
Was it a gang of ordinary criminals?
Were they even gang members or just Uighurs who happened to be declared "suspicious" by "community workers"?

Did they have any weapons in the house, other than "large knives" and axes, which can be found in any large house with 14 people?

I am not denying anything, just trying to understand the facts of the case.

One thing seems clear: it was not an attack initiated by Uighurs, but a confrontation in a private house started by "community workers" which then escalated.

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## SpArK

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Every major country in the world is being hit with this menace.
> 
> Being a majority atheist nation I did not ever expect them to spare us.
> 
> 
> 
> ETIM's stated goal* is to create an Islamic state *out of Xinjiang province, which they want to call East Turkestan.
> 
> *It is a combination of religious extremism and separatism.*
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



*We too have been suffering from same issue for some time now.*


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## Chinese-Dragon

@Developereo:

Xinjiang terrorist attack kills 15 - People's Daily

Whereas the international media don't want to use the word "terrorist" in their headlines, but pay attention to the quotes from Chinese officials:

Violence in western Chinese region of Xinjiang kills 21 - CNN



> *Some of the knives recovered by police were more than a meter long, according to Hou Hanmin, spokesperson for the Xinjiang government. She told CNN that some of the captured assailants said under interrogation that they had watched videos "from overseas" that featured violence and acts of terrorism.
> 
> "Then they made those large, lethal knives and wanted to use them for Jihad," she said, referring to the Arabic term meaning "struggle."
> 
> "They had been training in their own house for several months. They were affected by extremism and hoped to commit themselves to Jihad."*



Chinese officials used the word "Jihad" multiple times.

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## Developereo

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Some of the knives recovered by police were more than a meter long



They sound like morons. Using knives, however long, against police with modern weapons?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Developereo said:


> They sound like morons. Using knives, however long, against police with modern weapons?



Weapons are not so easily available in China compared to other countries.

That's why a lot of attacks involve knives instead of guns.

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## EXPERIMENT

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'd just prefer to keep China either majority atheist or followers of native religions and philosophies.



I agree with you totally. All sane people can see logic in this. It has been proven many times that converted people become more fanatic then the people who converted them. This example is easily seen in the pacific Islands they were converted to Christianity in the last 150 years approx and they are more "Christian" then the Christian nations. For e.g. in Fiji the country was split between two Christian sects fighting for political power in the 80's. The funny thing is if there is a rugby game or such they secretly pray to "Dakuwaqa" and "Degie" (Pre Christian Gods)


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## cnleio

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Weapons are not so easily available in China compared to other countries.
> That's why a lot of attacks involve knives instead of guns.


Yes a normal real handgun in China black market could sell &#65509;6000-10,000. But usually even have the money there'r also a few chance to buy it. 
Owning weapons in China belongs to grave crime, so very hard to get guns in China but knives much easy.

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## KingMamba

Developereo said:


> They sound like morons. Using knives, however long, against police with modern weapons?



It probably was Machetes and they translated to knives in the news report.

RIP to the dead.


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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Weapons are not so easily available in China compared to other countries.
> 
> That's why a lot of attacks involve knives instead of guns.



If I may brother : Despite the amount of hate I may have for Al-Qaeeda & the TTP I'd still be very hard pressed to call them amateurs, ill-equipped or plain dull. These people have given us hell using everything from Ak-47s smuggled from Afghanistan to household detergents & fertilizers to build powerful IEDs & suicide vests. 

I would not call the despicable act committed as not being a 'terrorist' attack but there is 'terrorism' & then there is 'terrorism'; which is to say that Muslim Extremists who've trained in Afghanistan or our Tribal Border Areas are not really known for fighting with machetes & daggers. I can appreciate the argument that weapons are not readily available in China but I would imagine that household detergents are, that fertilizer is & that China too shares a fairly porous border with countries to its West where infiltration can occur & no amount of border patrol or fencing can change that - The Americans couldn't & we couldn't & we've got a bigger stake on the Pak-Afghan Border. 

And so I'd very respectfully disagree with Madam Spokesperson's assessment or implication of suggesting that this act might be an act of terrorism by Jihadis - For those guys are usually armed with a lot more than just daggers or axes & a lot more ingenious & very cruel in their acts of terrorism.

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## KingMamba

Armstrong said:


> Xinjiang Terrorism is more of an ethnic thing than a religious one hence the furor in Turkic Countries - The Hui aren't really doing anything neither are any other Chinese Muslims !
> 
> On topic - Rest in Peace & I hope they are rooted out ruthlessly !



Yes you are right, the Turkic nations support them on ethnic lines a lot more than any non Turk Muslim country besides Afghanistan and that was only because of the lawlessness in Afghanistan.

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## Ayush

RIP to the dead..

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## KingMamba

Mech said:


> Higher that a pebble..deeper that a gutter friendship did nothing to help sort it.
> I think the chinese are beginning to get a taste of what lies ahead for them, going forward with some their..... dubious alliances.



I think the Chinese know that Pakistan had nothing to do with this and that Pakistan has tried to take down ETIM militants. That is why Pakistan-China relations are strong but China's relations with a country like Turkey has been strained due to the violence. Just look at the reaction in Turkey during the 2009 riots in Xinxiang.

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## Chinese-Dragon

KingMamba93 said:


> It probably was Machetes and they translated to knives in the news report.
> 
> RIP to the dead.



The character "&#20992;" (Dao) can mean a knife, or any type of *single-edged blade*, like a saber.

Some, like the "&#22823;&#20992;" (Dadao) are enormous. They were once used on the battlefield to cut armored opponents in half.



Armstrong said:


> And so I'd very respectfully disagree with Madam Spokesperson's assessment or implication of suggesting that this act might be an act of terrorism by Jihadis - For those guys are usually armed with a lot more than just daggers or axes & a lot more ingenious & very cruel in their acts of terrorism.



Fair enough, if that is your opinion.

They can't get guns and bombs, so they make do with what they have. A proper blade can be highly lethal if the user is trained and has the element of surprise.

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## Bhai Zakir

*21 Dead in Clash with Gangsters in Western China*


BEIJING  At least 21 people were killed on Tuesday in fighting in far western China between security officers and gangsters, according to a propaganda bureau spokeswoman for the regional government of Xinjiang, where the conflict took place.

Six of those killed were gangsters, and eight more people in the gang were detained during the violence, according to accounts from the bureau and a report Wednesday on a regional news Web site, Tianshan. The other 15 killed were police officers and community watch workers or volunteers. They died after the large gang herded them at knifepoint into a house and set the building on fire, said the propaganda spokeswoman, who gave only her surname, Ms. Hou.

The death toll was the highest reported in violence in Xinjiang in many many months. Xinjiang is a vast western region that encompasses many ethnicities and landscapes, and violence flares on occasion in the regional capital, Urumqi, or along a belt of southern oases towns that are inhabited mostly by Uighurs, a Turkic-speaking people who often complain about governance and discrimination by the ethnic Han, who rule China. Sometimes the violence is clearly rooted in ethnic conflict, and other times it involves criminal gangs or attacks by individuals or groups against state organizations.

Ms. Hou said all 14 of the assailants were of Uighur ethnicity, most of them from a village administered by the township of Selibuya. *She said they had been influenced by religious extremism and had been plotting a jihad since the end of last year, though there was no evidence they were working with foreign forces.*

*Uighurs generally practice Sunni Islam, and Uighur exiles often criticize Chinese officials for saying violence in Xinjiang arises from religious extremism.* In the past, officials in Xinjiang and Beijing have tried to blame a group called the East Turkestan Islamic Movement for some acts of violence in the region, though several foreign scholars say the officials have presented little evidence to support their claims.

As with many such events in Xinjiang, details of the fighting on Tuesday remained murky even a full day after the violence had transpired. Some elements of the official accounts were bizarre.

The accounts called the assailants both violent gangsters and suspected terrorists. The violence took place in a village in Selibuya township under Bachu County, near the historic Silk Road oasis town of Kashgar, which is near the borders of Central Asian nations and Pakistan. The conflict began on Tuesday when a person called a local government office saying there was suspicious activity in a neighboring house. Three community watch workers went to check the house at around 1:30 p.m. and found people there with a large stockpile of knives measuring about 1.2 meters each, Ms. Hou said.

The workers called the police, but were then captured by the gang. Several police officers arrived with another group of community watch workers; only one of the officers was carrying a gun, Ms. Hou said. Those 12 people were unaware that the gangsters had already killed the three community workers who had initially arrived at the house, and they were in turn cornered in the building. The attackers then set the house on fire.

On the law enforcement side, six police officers and nine community watch workers died, Ms. Hou said. The Tianshan report said they were made up of 10 Uighurs, three Han and two Mongolians.

More security forces arrived at the scene and shot at the attackers, which resulted in the deaths of six of the gang members and the detention of another eight. None appeared to have fled.

Violence has occurred more frequently in Xinjiang ever since an eruption of rioting by Uighurs in Urumqi in 2009. Official news reports said nearly 200 people were killed, most of them Han, and many more were injured. Uighurs in the area say Han-dominated security forces then began a brutal crackdown, and Han went into the streets to seek revenge. 


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/world/asia/violence-in-western-china.html?_r=0


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## MeshFree

eajvoSA said:


> It's funny how these govr like China and their suporters critisize US and their foreign policy based on "war on terror". But use the same "war on terror" discourse when it suits them.



We say 'war on terror' when America troops kill in other country, not inluding the anti-terrorism actions in their own land. And this terrorist attack happened in China, you see the difference?


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## ChinaToday

Juice said:


> And so they attacked China? You sure make a lot of sense.



fyi they are just xinjiang seperatists nothing to do with religion

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChinaToday said:


> fyi they are just xinjiang seperatists nothing to do with religion



What? Didn't you read the official statement?

I'll quote it again:



> *Some of the knives recovered by police were more than a meter long, according to Hou Hanmin, spokesperson for the Xinjiang government. She told CNN that some of the captured assailants said under interrogation that they had watched videos "from overseas" that featured violence and acts of terrorism.
> 
> "Then they made those large, lethal knives and wanted to use them for Jihad," she said, referring to the Arabic term meaning "struggle."
> 
> "They had been training in their own house for several months. They were affected by extremism and hoped to commit themselves to Jihad."*



Why did the official spokesperson say "Jihad" so many times then?

If they wanted to say "separatism", then they would have said it. But they said the word "Jihad" instead.

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## djsjs

sentence the 8 to death


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## KingMamba

Juice said:


> And so they attacked China? You sure make a lot of sense.



The Hui Muslims of China outnumber the Uighur and they are all patriotic Chinese. The main motive behind the ETIM is to seperate because they say they are Turks and not Chinese. The movement was encouraged by the Soviets after the split from the Chinese in the cold war but after they failed the first time around (defeated by a Hui Muslim general no less) they reorganized and started to play the religion card to get into Afghanistan to train when the Taliban were in control. As you know the Taliban supported anyone who was Muslim so they let them in. After 2001 they were bombed into oblivion when we invaded so they are weak now but some may still be in North Waziristan, Pakistan. Yet even today they do not find sympathy from many Muslim countries for many reasons mainly

-Everyone knows they are actually in an ethnic battle with the Chinese so only Turkic nations support them (by support I mean moral although covert who knows).

-Most Muslim countries want good relations with China because US is viewed suspiciously and the Chinese are seen as a counter weight.

-Lastly the Uighurs have a different Islamic jurispudence than most other "movements" whereas most movements are Wahabbi/Salafi the Uighurs are Sufi militants and so the countries that would otherwise happily donate to Wahabbi groups *cough ksa qatar cough* are not so obliging towards them.
 @Armstrong @Chinese-Dragon @ChinaToday

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## IBRIS

Clashes in China's restive Xinjiang region have left 21 people dead, including 15 police officers and officials, authorities say.

The violence occurred on Tuesday afternoon in Bachu county, Kashgar prefecture.

The foreign ministry said it had been a planned attack by a "violent terrorist group", but ethnic groups questioned this.

There have been sporadic clashes in Xinjiang in recent years.

The incidents come amid rumbling ethnic tensions between the Muslim Uighur and Han Chinese communities. In 2009 almost 200 people - mostly Han Chinese - were killed after deadly rioting erupted.

Continue reading the main story
Analysis

Celia Hatton
BBC Beijing correspondent
Nothing is stopping foreign journalists from booking flights to Xinjiang after hearing reports of violence there. However, simply travelling to the region doesn't guarantee the ability to dig out the truth behind this story.

In 2009, dozens of foreign reporters were permitted to join an official tour of Urumqi, the capital of Xinjiang, after clashes between minority ethnic Uighur residents and majority Chinese Hans killed 197 people.

Their experiences were mixed. Some reporters were able to speak to a variety of people on the ground, while others faced harassment and intimidation.

The situation remains the same today. Reporters who travel to the area are closely followed by government minders. Locals often hesitate to answer questions, fearing reprisals from government authorities.

Uighur exile groups often provide accounts that differ from the official Chinese government reports. Reconciling the two can be tricky.

The situation isn't any easier for Chinese journalists. China's propaganda departments have warned domestic news outlets against conducting their own independent reporting on sensitive Xinjiang stories, ordering them to reprint official stories from China's major state news agencies.

It is very difficult to verify reports from Xinjiang, reports the BBC's Celia Hatton.

Foreign journalists are allowed to travel to the region but frequently face intimidation and harassment when attempting to verify news of ethnic rioting or organised violence against government authorities.

'Terrorism'
Hou Hanmin, director of the Xinjiang government's propaganda department, said Tuesday's clashes began as officials described as community workers searched homes for weapons.

She told the BBC's Chinese service that three of the workers were killed as they were investigating reports of suspicious individuals at the home of a local resident.

Unarmed police then arrived to investigate the workers' earlier reports and were attacked, said Ms Hou. Three "thugs" died and nine police officers were cornered in a house which was then set on fire, she said, calling the incident a "planned terrorist attack" on innocent victims.

There was no information on the identity of the assailants. Ten of the officials and police killed were ethnic Uighurs, the local authorities said.

Eight people were arrested.

Foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said initial police investigations showed it had been "a premeditated attack carried out by a violent terrorist group".

She said the security situation in Xinjiang was "good in general, but a small cluster of terrorist forces are still doing their very best to upset and sabotage Xinjiang's stability and development".

"I believe their plan goes against the will of the people and is doomed to fail," she told a news conference.

But Dilxat Raxit, a spokesperson for the World Uighur Congress, an umbrella organisation of Uighur groups, told the BBC the incident was caused by the killing of a young Uighur by Chinese "armed personnel" as a result of a government clean-up campaign.

Uighurs make up about 45% of the region's population, but say an influx of Han Chinese residents has marginalised their traditional culture.

Beijing authorities often blame violent incidents in Xinjiang on Uighur extremists seeking autonomy for the region. Uighur activists, meanwhile, accuse Beijing of over-exaggerating the threat to justify heavy-handed rule.

In March, 20 people were jailed on terrorism and separatism charges in the region. Last August courts jailed another 20 people on similar charges in Xinjiang.

*Uighurs and Xinjiang*


- Uighurs are ethnically Turkic Muslims
- They make up about 45% of the region's population; 40% are Han Chinese
- China re-established control in 1949 after crushing short-lived state of East Turkestan
- Since then, large-scale immigration of Han Chinese
- Uighurs fear erosion of traditional culture

BBC News - China's Xinjiang hit by deadly clashes


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## IBRIS

*Mystery clouds deadly clash in western China with 'suspected terrorists'*

*Some say that Beijing deliberately exaggerates the terrorist threat in order to justify the iron grip it keeps on the Muslim majority province of Xinjiang in western China.*





*A woman looks up as a dust storm hits Kashgar, Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region, last week. Xinjiang, once a predominantly Muslim province in China's far west, has seen massive settlement by ethnic Han immigrants in recent decades.

Reuters*

*BEIJING*
Mystery surrounds official Chinese reports Wednesday of a violent clash between &#8220;suspected terrorists&#8221; and the authorities in the restive Muslim province of Xinjiang yesterday that left 21 people dead, including 15 officials.

According to a statement on the provincial government website, a group &#8220;planning to conduct violent terrorist activities&#8221; armed with knives seized three local officials who had surprised them in a house near the city of Kashgar (see map).

They then killed the three hostages and 12 of the policemen and local community workers who came to the rescue, setting fire to the house before armed police regained control of the situation, killing six of the suspects and arresting eight of them, the statement said.

The Chinese authorities have given only sketchy details of the incident, and have not accused any particular group of responsibility. Beijing has previously blamed Islamist separatists for earlier violent attacks on officials.

Xinjiang, once a predominantly Muslim province in China&#8217;s far west, has seen massive settlement by ethnic Han immigrants in recent decades. Local people complain that their culture and language are being eroded and that Han now outnumber original inhabitants, who are ethnic Uighurs, with linguistic and cultural ties to central Asian peoples.

Violence flares sporadically, despite a stiflingly heavy handed police and army presence. In 2009 almost 200 people were killed &#8211; mostly ethnic Han &#8211; in deadly rioting in the provincial capital of Urumqi. Last month the government announced that courts in Xinjiang had sentenced 20 men to prison terms as long as life for plotting Jihadhi attacks.

The men &#8220;had their thoughts poisoned by religious extremism,&#8221; according to the Xinjiang provincial website, and had &#8220;spread Muslim religious propaganda.&#8221;

Determining the truth behind such allegations, and incidents such as Tuesday&#8217;s clash, is difficult. Chinese media are not allowed to carry reports other than those by the state-run news agency Xinhua and foreign reporters have found themselves restricted and harassed when trying to work in Xinjiang.

A leading Uighur activist, Dilxat Raxit, who lives in Germany, questioned the official account, telling the AP that local residents had reported that the police sparked the incident by shooting a Uighur youth during a house search.

It was not clear how the suspects, armed only with knives, had managed to kill 15 policemen and local officials before they were subdued.

China has often accused a shadowy group known as the East Turkestan Islamic Movement of being behind violence in Xinjiang, but foreign observers are dubious, with some saying that Beijing deliberately exaggerates the terrorist threat in order to justify the iron grip it keeps on Xinjiang.

The US State Department put the group on its terrorist watch list in 2002, but has since removed it amid doubts about whether the group is a real organization.

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## Speeder 2

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Developereo:
> 
> Xinjiang terrorist attack kills 15 - People's Daily
> 
> Whereas the international media don't want to use the word "terrorist" in their headlines, but pay attention to the quotes from Chinese officials:
> 
> Violence in western Chinese region of Xinjiang kills 21 - CNN
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese officials used the word "Jihad" multiple times.



 @ how CNN calls it "violence killed 21"... So Boston thing was "violence killed 3 in the Northeastern US", too?


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## qwerrty

> The US State Department put the group on its terrorist watch list in 2002, but has since removed it amid doubts about whether the group is a real organization.



lol them americans believe chechen wackos are no terrorists too, but..


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## qwerrty

Speeder 2 said:


> @ how CNN calls it "violence killed 21"... So Boston thing was "violence killed 3 in the Northeastern US", too?



well, chechen terrorists are freedom fighters according to american propaganda media before the boston bombing. the russians probably laughing their ***** right now..

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## Executioner

RIP

I think main issue is most of them are illiterate and they are easy to motivate to do any kind of work in name of Allah. They are empty vessel nothing to anything and anyone can fill few words and little bit brainwashing. Even they blow them-self.


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## Speeder 2

Developereo said:


> RIP to the victims.
> 
> Have any of the criminals been linked to a terrorist organization or cause. Is it related to the Xinjiang issue, or a case of common criminals?



a case of common criminals is sth of picking pockets, oke? or stealing a iphone, or even robing a bank... Common criminals don't kill, particularly no jewries, money, drugs, etc involved. Sorry but is this common sense?

... and 

a case of common criminals doesn't invlove killing that many, a truck load!, for NO reason. for fun? for after-dinner exercice? ...particularly while the whole nation is busy at helping the relief of the unfortunate eathquake victums.

It's blantant twisted hatred to the extent of outright slaughtering, of anything, anyone in slight, in the name of i dunno what!!! 

A jihad that is? Inspired by Boston?

"A case of common criminals"? come again?



--May the victums RIP.


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## canadian icehole

Armstrong said:


> P.S We still don't know whether it was the ETIM in this case or not & as I observed earlier on - Knives, a single firearm & axes don't really seem like the weapons of choice for Al-Qaeeda linked Militants ! Either our cooperation is working out better than we - on the outside - know or these weren't Muslim Extremist as opposed to being just disgruntled Uighurs that got caught by the security forces & decided to retaliate with knives, axes & a gun !



My understanding is that it's very difficult to get a hold of firearms in China. You make do with what you can get your hands on.




Developereo said:


> Sounds like a confrontation started by overzealous "community workers" who decided to enter and search private property because "suspicious" Uighurs lived there. In any case , it is a case of gang violence at worst, not planned terrorism.



The word terrorism is so broad it can just about cover everything; organized crime (i.e. Mafia, drug lords) can be considered "terrorists".




Developereo said:


> They sound like morons. Using knives, however long, against police with modern weapons?



Show up to a gun fight with a knife?  However, I've heard most police officers fear criminals with knives than guns.




EXPERIMENT said:


> I agree with you totally. All sane people can see logic in this. It has been proven many times that converted people become more fanatic then the people who converted them...



+1 This behaviour isn't just confined to religion.

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## Gandhi G in da house

KingMamba93 said:


> The Hui Muslims of China outnumber the Uighur and they are all patriotic Chinese. The main motive behind the ETIM is to seperate because they say they are Turks and not Chinese. The movement was encouraged by the Soviets after the split from the Chinese in the cold war but after they failed the first time around (defeated by a Hui Muslim general no less) they reorganized and started to play the religion card to get into Afghanistan to train when the Taliban were in control. As you know the Taliban supported anyone who was Muslim so they let them in. After 2001 they were bombed into oblivion when we invaded so they are weak now but some may still be in North Waziristan, Pakistan. Yet even today they do not find sympathy from many Muslim countries for many reasons mainly
> 
> -Everyone knows they are actually in an ethnic battle with the Chinese so only Turkic nations support them (by support I mean moral although covert who knows).
> 
> -Most Muslim countries want good relations with China because US is viewed suspiciously and the Chinese are seen as a counter weight.
> 
> -Lastly the Uighurs have a different Islamic jurispudence than most other "movements" whereas most movements are Wahabbi/Salafi the Uighurs are Sufi militants and so the countries that would otherwise happily donate to Wahabbi groups *cough ksa qatar cough* are not so obliging towards them.
> 
> @Armstrong @Chinese-Dragon @ChinaToday



Sufi militants ? Never heard this before


----------



## EXPERIMENT

*+1 This behaviour isn't just confined to religion*.[/QUOTE]

Yup.... Like ex smokers who become anti smoking Mafia....

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## KingMamba

nick_indian said:


> Sufi militants ? Never heard this before



Yes here is another example but these guys are fighting wahabbis in Somalia and the government supports them there.

Ahlu Sunna Waljama'a - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sufi militas are different in that while they think they are fighting for a cause they reject the archaic interpretations of Islam by salafi/wahabbis and are more into spiritualism.


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## sur

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Xinjiang terrorist attack kills 15 - People's Daily
> 
> Chinese officials *used the word "Jihad" multiple times.*



The link you posted doesn't use that word *even once*. It's YOU who are using it, NOT genuine Chinese whom I am friends with. 

You are a brain-washed Chinese, not a genuine one. Hence you keep referring to religion just like ur Western masters... *Genuine Chinese are wise NOT to mention religious belonging of criminals, unlike YOU* You are mentally-enslaved to Western propaganda & when a Chinese girl in Boston is killed by American-agencies, you think Muslims did it... DO NOT MENTION RELIGIOUS BELONGING OF A CRIMINAL. Your Chinese fellows understand it very well, you don't. Since u r a mental-slave to propaganda, Chinese are NOT... That's the whole point. 




Chinese-Dragon said:


> ...Xinjiang terrorist attack kills 15 - People's Daily...Chinese officials used the word "Jihad" multiple times. *But I guess you think that is a conspiracy too?*




Yes it is "conspiracy" that they used the word "Jihad" multiple times -&- you are the conspirator here, against ur own media... Even if u were right, here, I use the word "mental-slave" multiple times for you,,,
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"
"Chinese-Dragon is a mental-slave"


So are you a mental slave since I repeated that so many times???

-
-
-

Group was accused of collecting illegal *knives* .... 
& when *your beloved masters* create synthetic-terrorism & al-CIAdah double-agents, of course many copy-cats might think of themselves as lions & *collect "knives"* in their house... *You know "knives"...* & when you raid a house full of knives, the resulting fight can result in loss of lives... Oh look! they rhymed...

-
-
-

*See genuine Chinese understand what I've been saying all along.
They don't use the word "Jihad", "Islam", "Muslim", "Islamic", etc*
(LINK) - "community workers found several suspicious persons and knives"
(Link) - "Three community workers discovered suspicious individuals and knives"
(Link)
(Link)
(Link) - older news but no labeling of religion by genuine Chinese.
(Link)




& here's a quote from link posted by Fateh71:
"Officials and state media blame the unrest on "terrorists" but some experts say the government has produced little evidence of an organised terrorist threat, adding the violence stems more from long-standing local resentment."



fateh71 said:


> Unrest in China's Xinjiang kills 21 people: local official - Channel NewsAsia
> Atleast this news item does not suggest a terrorist attack, but a police raid that went violent and the police claiming the people raided were plotting terrorist acts.



By-the-way as I write, I am watching a Chinese TV channel *"Dragon TV"* ur name sake.  Don't understand a word. Just watching ... There's some Chinese serial on...


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## Chinese-Dragon

Sur, I feel you are having a breakdown, so I'll make my post again:


------------------



Xinjiang terrorist attack kills 15 - People's Daily

Whereas the international media don't want to use the word "terrorist" in their headlines, but pay attention to the quotes from Chinese officials:

Violence in western Chinese region of Xinjiang kills 21 - CNN



> *Some of the knives recovered by police were more than a meter long, according to Hou Hanmin, spokesperson for the Xinjiang government. She told CNN that some of the captured assailants said under interrogation that they had watched videos "from overseas" that featured violence and acts of terrorism.
> 
> "Then they made those large, lethal knives and wanted to use them for Jihad," she said, referring to the Arabic term meaning "struggle."
> 
> "They had been training in their own house for several months. They were affected by extremism and hoped to commit themselves to Jihad."*



Chinese officials used the word "Jihad" multiple times.

P.S. To clarify Sur... it was Hou Hanmin, official spokeswoman for the Chinese Government, who mentioned the word "Jihad" multiple times.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Sur, check out a 2011 article of an earlier incident, by the the People's Daily.

The People's Daily is the *official newspaper* of the Chinese Communist Party.

Blood stains the Silk Road - People's Daily Online



> The local government said religious extremists, led by militants and trained in overseas terrorist camps, were behind the attacks that targeted Han people.
> 
> "Captured suspects confessed that their leaders had earlier trained in Pakistan and joined the separatist East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), the Kashi government said on its website.
> 
> The 18 Uyghur men who attacked the police station in Hotan were reported to have spoken with an accent unfamiliar in Xinjiang. They also were reported to have raised a "jihadist flag" on the roof of the station. The attacks in Kashi were said to be linked to terrorist groups in Pakistan.



They mention religion, Jihad, etc. multiple times. And your country as well.

Once again, the People's Daily is the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party. Are you finished with your conspiracy theories yet?


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## cnleio

Good video,u need to watch this. I call it's the Jihad in China XinJiang ... the BLUE Jihad flag ??? Okay officals call them r China XinJiang Jihad. 
Someone pls upload this video to Youtube.com and title "China XinJiang Jihad (Blue Flag)". Ths !

[youku]XNTQ3NDM1OTYw[/youku]

Youku video link:China XinJiang Jihad

Of course in China XinJiang there'r Jihad and they using the Blue Jihad flag, they teaching their children shooting AK-47 and PKM, future prepare for killing in XinJiang. So China will fight against these fvcking "Blue flag" Jihad and kick them out.


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## Bobby

Till US did not become victim of terrorism...US did not bother about it....Same goes with China...let them have some....


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## cnleio

Good video of China XinJiang Jihad (the Blue Jihad Flag),u need to watch this. 

I call it's the Jihad in China XinJiang ... the BLUE Jihad Flag ? Officals call them r China XinJiang Jihad. 
Someone pls upload this video to Youtube.com and i will add youtube video link here. Ths !

[youku]XNTQ3NDM1OTYw[/youku]

Youku video link:China XinJiang Jihad

Of course in China XinJiang there'r Jihad and they using the Blue Jihad flag, they teaching their children shooting AK-47 and PKM, future prepare for killing in XinJiang.


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## Capt.Popeye

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Sur, check out a 2011 article of an earlier incident, by the the People's Daily.
> 
> The People's Daily is the *official newspaper* of the Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Blood stains the Silk Road - People's Daily Online
> 
> 
> 
> They mention religion, Jihad, etc. multiple times. And your country as well.
> 
> Once again, the People's Daily is the official newspaper of the Chinese Communist Party. Are you finished with your conspiracy theories yet?


 @Chinese-Dragon;
China is seriously concerned about religion-based militancy. That has been the topic of discussions trilaterally with Russia and India as well as bilaterally with India recently. There is a reson for that; with the NATO and American draw-down in Afghanistan, the region is likely to erupt again. This affects China in two ways: firstly trouble on its door-step which is likely to spill-over into Xinjiang. Secondly the threat to Chinese economic interests in Afghanistan, which BTW is shared with India. Hence the parleys. The underlying basis for the discussions has been the inability of Pakistan to rein in all the major disruptive forces in Afghanistan and its seeming reluctance to control the ones that it can. Even the lines between those two categories has become so seriously blurred that nobody is able to make any kind of prognosis now.


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## huskie

so apparently the 15 'civilian' are really semi/formal police force. they discovered a preparation hub full of terrorists and foiled a terrorist attempt to attack the community at the cost of their own lives. salute to them for their sacrifice.

my question is, what the heck is going on? terrorist attack in US, attempt attack in Canada, and now in China, did these terrorist receive their orders from the same organization?



Bobby said:


> Till US did not become victim of terrorism...US did not bother about it....Same goes with China...let them have some....



I hope you were laughing when Mumbai was attacked, and hope you will still laugh when another attack happens in India. Then we will see if you bother or not.


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## Bobby

Who are they?


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## notsuperstitious

huskie said:


> I hope you were laughing when Mumbai was attacked, and hope you will still laugh when another attack happens in India. Then we will see if you bother or not.
> 
> so apparently the 15 'civilian' are really semi/formal police force. they discovered a preparation hub full of terrorists and foiled a terrorist attempt to attack the community at the cost of their own lives. salute to them for their sacrifice.
> 
> my question is, what the heck is going on? terrorist attack in US, attempt attack in Canada, and now in China, did these terrorist receive their orders from the same organization?



Actually the guys who attacked Mumbai, china blocked restrictions vote on them in UNSC three times and only relented after Mumbai attacks.

Often one realises danger when it threatens them, thats the point my compatriot was making. No disprespect to the victims of this attack intended.


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## Bobby

huskie said:


> I hope you were laughing when Mumbai was attacked, and hope you will still laugh when another attack happens in India. Then we will see if you bother or not.



I dont know about me but so many in Pakistan and China were laughing that time...now it is my time


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## asianamerican

cnleio said:


> Good video of China XinJiang Jihad (the Blue Jihad Flag),u need to watch this.
> 
> I call it's the Jihad in China XinJiang ... the BLUE Jihad Flag ? Officals call them r China XinJiang Jihad.
> Someone pls upload this video to Youtube.com and i will add youtube video link here. Ths !
> 
> [youku]XNTQ3NDM1OTYw[/youku]
> 
> Youku video link:China XinJiang Jihad
> 
> Of course in China XinJiang there'r Jihad and they using the Blue Jihad flag, they teaching their children shooting AK-47 and PKM, future prepare for killing in XinJiang.



That's f-ing sad. Brainwashing and training kids to kill. China need to put stomp this before it gets out of control and terrorist starting targeting major cities in China. These kids deserved better.

Looks like Islam can't coexist with any other religion.


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## jaunty

fateh71 said:


> Actually the guys who attacked Mumbai, china blocked restrictions vote on them in UNSC three times and only relented after Mumbai attacks.



I hope these incidents at least make them realize the danger of jehadi terrorism. Strategic depth at the risk of supporting religious lunatics can come back to bite you, don't think we need any more example of that than what we are witnessing at the moment around our region.

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## Silverblaze

asianamerican said:


> That's f-ing sad. Brainwashing and training kids to kill. China need to put stomp this before it gets out of control and terrorist starting targeting major cities in China. These kids deserved better.
> 
> Looks like Islam can't coexist with any other religion.



Oh come on. Its a very very old movement. And may I remind you that these groups had tacit approval from the US.

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## ShahidT

video is so last week. and of course it is deplorable but they can only get away with it by capitalizing on some genuine grievances. i've always maintained that China needs to look after its Uighur populations' sensitivities better. from the communist perspective, materialism and economic development is all that matters. but for muslims this is useless if it costs them the ability to practice Islam in peace, without restriction. If you remove that grievance by force rather than understanding, and keep the province 'autonomous' only in name and not practice, then unfortunately such horrible exploitation would be harder to eradicate.

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## Gandhi G in da house

Sad video. China needs to protect itself from this scourge.

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## Silverblaze

pehgaam e mohabbat said:


> video is so last week. and of course it is deplorable but they can only get away with it by capitalizing on some genuine grievances. i've always maintained that China needs to look after its Uighur populations' sensitivities better. from the communist perspective, materialism and economic development is all that matters. but for muslims this is useless if it costs them the ability to practice Islam in peace, without restriction. If you remove that grievance by force rather than understanding, and keep the province 'autonomous' only in name and not practice, then unfortunately such horrible exploitation would be harder to eradicate.



This is a bit unfair. They have spent cash there. The problem is some vested interests who want to keep the pot boiling. US has also played a role in this. 

Instead of blaming everything on one group, China must fight on all fronts. Spend money, fight and talk with some people and also monitor US activities.

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## Capt.Popeye

A very serious problem is brewing, and right on China's door-step. The scourge seems to be proliferating.

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## manojb

No need to worry my Chinese frends. These r just kids doing extr curriculum activities. For up coming annual day program. Its their culture thing you know. Thats what some expert from that area are suggesting. @Safriz.


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## ShahidT

Silverblaze said:


> This is a bit unfair. They have spent cash there. The problem is some vested interests who want to keep the pot boiling. US has also played a role in this.
> 
> Instead of blaming everything on one group, China must fight on all fronts. Spend money, fight and talk with some people and also monitor US activities.



not unfair at all. Uighurs are part of the Chinese nation. I haven't heard of Chinese Christians or Jews being told they can't observe Sabbath or religious duties. the only curtailment of free practice of religion nowadays occurs in the western provinces. It was similar in their eastern provinces some decades ago but they eventually learned that granting religious freedoms is a uniting factor, not a divisive one. but for some reason or other, maybe suspicions or military thinking, they haven't come around to it in xinjiang and xizang/tibet. so they need to just speed up this process of fully bringing them within the fold of China as loyal citizens. foreign elements can only interfere until China realizes and acts upon this tried and tested policy, then the meddling will eventually wane to extinction.

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## asianamerican

Psyops said:


> I would ban all religions. Just look at Iraq, they kill each other just because they worship a subsection of the same religion and dividing the country. The Christians go around killing the Muslims. I'm an atheist. The spread of religion in China will ruin China and eventually divide China among religious groups. The CCP has done an appalling job controlling the spread of religion in China.
> 
> The west has been trying to spread Christianity (underground churches) like they spread it in South Korea to be sympathetic towards the western ideals. Some Muslim countries have not been criticising terrorist activities inside China like turkey.



That's probably the worst part of religions. It divides instead of unite. It seemed that people forget that nation's fate is tied to unity and people working together. If you people flourish, you will be better off. Instead, religion people rather listen to outsider of the same fate, like the Pope, even though the whole Catholic church is racist and would never elect a non-white pope. It perplexed me for a long time, why people choose to follow Christianity/Islam in East Asia, when these religion came to through war and force conversions.

Althought, freedom of religion (person) should be allowed, as not to alienate existing population, but as soon as these people start preaching, then they need to be put down.




Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Developereo:
> 
> Xinjiang terrorist attack kills 15 - People's Daily
> 
> Whereas the international media don't want to use the word "terrorist" in their headlines, but pay attention to the quotes from Chinese officials:
> 
> Violence in western Chinese region of Xinjiang kills 21 - CNN
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese officials used the word "Jihad" multiple times.



What do expect from CNN and Western news media. They never call terrorist act in China "terrorism", they use "uprising", "violence". They call Chinese news organization - "propaganda bureau". 

Chinese news media need to do the same. This Boston Bombing is not a terrorist act, but "a violence protest against Western intervention in Islamic country".

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## sur

asianamerican said:


> ...*Looks like* Islam can't coexist with any other religion.



Get ur eyes checked then... or learn some history...

When Islam was in power, it existed peacefully with all other religions longer than any other civilization in the history of the earth. *~1000 years...*

Read history, when Muslims ruled any area, like Jerusalem, all religions were given freedom contrary to when *Christians* ruled Jerusalem Jews & Muslims civilians were massacred. *Romans* massacred Jews & Christians civilians. *Mongols* too. *Atheists* rulers massacred their own civilians in Russia & China surpassing total count of other killings in history of the world. *Inquisition* is another example generosity of Christians. And *as for the Jews* , just read the holy scripture of Jews itself, the old testament. Their own scripture testifies against them. "smash heads of breast-feeding infants & kill all non-virgins & keep the virgins for yourselves"



cnleio said:


> Good video of China XinJiang Jihad (the Blue Jihad Flag)...future prepare for killing in XinJiang.


*I don't see any relation of this video to China, except that it's uploaded on some Chinese website* ... Do you hallucinate???

& AsianAmerican Looks like you buy propaganda quicker than you do your home work given by a strict teacher... In case you are not in touch, many such videos have poped up in past too.* Those invaders sitting in Afghanistan* gather some locals & make them act for a little filming. Sometimes they show these actors firing at a Christian-Cross. Sometimes they film bunch of cheep actors with their faces covered doing some *gymnastics on monkey-bars* & show sheeple as if they are busy training to take over the world. These ppl that u see hardly have enough to feed themselves let alone perpetrate any attack else where.

If u were scared by kids firing, then there are lots of *videos of chicks in bikini firing guns*, you should be scared that ladies might be plotting to take over *men*-kind. 

-
-
-

Let me enlighten you with a couple of examples on how they hire locals & for little money or may be just for some candies make them act in these videos...

.
.
.

Two French journalists Joel Marc Epstein and Jean Paul Guilloteau

.

BBC - Pakistan jails French journalists
"President Pervez Musharraf criticised the *two men and their Pakistani fixer* for trying to defame the country by falsely presenting the country as a hub of Taleban activities."

.

Two French journalists making fake reports arrested from Baluchistan 
"...*fake films on Taliban have been recovered from their possession* which were aimed to tarnish Pakistan's image"

.

French Journalists and their arrest in Pakistan
"A local journalist Syed Khawar Mehdi aiding the two men was also arrested ... involved in making a video *showing fake Taliban guerillas getting arms training within Pakistan*&#8217;s territory."

.













.
.
.
.
.
*Second example*
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo_g0oxygTg

.
.
.

*The ex-FBI:'There is no real hunt. It's fixed'*​
Craig Monteilh describes *how he pretended to be a radical Muslim* in order to root out potential threats, shining a light on some of the bureau's more ethically murky practices ... This is when suspects *carry out or plot fake terrorist "attacks" at the request or under the close supervision of an FBI undercover* operation using secret informants. Often those informants have serious criminal records or are supplied with a financial motivation to net suspects. 
.
.
.

Hope now you can get some nightmare-free sleep with your teddy bear...

.
.
.




Silverblaze said:


> ...But can you ignore the fact that many extremists live in Pakistan?
> Why didn't you kick out extremists after afghan war? First you helped the west against the Soviets and ruined your country and then the same west has turned against you.


...*where were those so-called extremist when neither USSR nor US were in Afghanistan... WHY was it so peaceful in Pakistan during that window period???

WHY is it so that when USSR was in Afghan & now that US is in Afghan, there are blasts in Pakistan??? WHY Pakistan was free of bus-market-suicide blasts when there were Taliban ruling Afghanistan??? 7 continued to be so until ~2004 (uptil when US-&-dogs were preparing to start a new episode of terrorism inside Pakistan)* What's so common between presence of USSR & US in Afghan??? Does India come to your mind as a common factor??? 


& As to existence of extremist, they are every where. Who blew up abortion clinic in US for example? Remember irish against England? Tamil in Sri Lanka. Gangs in Mexico? & above all US military ... Extremist all everywhere & all the time there. *They aren't found exclusively in Pakistan. Now the real thing is are they capable of acting on their thoughts??? NO,,, especially in Pakistan they are NOT, unless they receive support from some external forces, like they received when USSR was in Afghan & now are again receiving when US in in neighborhood...[/U]* The moment US f***s off from Afghan abandoning *india as an orphan, peace will come back to Pakistan & these trouble makers in China will also starve to relent.*

Point is,, extremist minds are *everywhere*, they are *harmless until* you provide them resources & assistance to act on their thoughts... *Watch this, how US punish ppl for their thoughts by making them do criminal things...*


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwTpJ1EoV6A

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## Capt.Popeye

manojb said:


> No need to worry my Chinese frends. These r just kids doing extr curriculum activities. For up coming annual day program. Its their culture thing you know. Thats what some expert from that area are suggesting. @Safriz.



Oh, did Frizzie say that they were Boy Scouts attending their annual camp?


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## ChineseTiger1986

asianamerican said:


> That's f-ing sad. Brainwashing and training kids to kill. China need to put stomp this before it gets out of control and terrorist starting targeting major cities in China. These kids deserved better.
> 
> Looks like Islam can't coexist with any other religion.



What's the point to blame the ordinary Muslims for this?

Think about Syria and this, which group in this world can fund this?


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## Safriz

Capt.Popeye said:


> Oh, did Frizzie say that they were Boy Scouts attending their annual camp?



NO I JUST ASKED YOU TO NOT SOIL YOUR PANTS SCARED OF KIDDIES..
ITS TRADITIONAL IN MANY AREAS OF THE WORLD TO TEACH CHILDREN GUNFIRE...
THESE AREAS OF THE WORLD INCLUDE yOO eSS OF aAEY AND MANY CENTRAL ASIAN REGIONS.

OH THE CAPS..CANT BE ARSED TO TURN THEM OFF

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## BigDaddyWatch

asianamerican said:


> That's f-ing sad. Brainwashing and training kids to kill. China need to put stomp this before it gets out of control and terrorist starting targeting major cities in China. These kids deserved better.
> 
> Looks like Islam can't coexist with any other religion.



Blaming an entire religion for the actions of a few is just stupid. Violence is of all nations and people and of all times including China and the Chinese. I don't see the Muslims having a monopoly on violence in the world today. The Muslims are getting a bad rep from the media.


----------



## qinglong-china

From the middle of the last century, East Turkistan separatists(&#30086;&#29420&#12289; Tibetan separatist&#65288;&#34255;&#29420;&#65289;&#12289; Taiwan independence&#65288;&#21488;&#29420;&#65289; were supported by some western countries and some countries with bad intentions to dismember China. East Turkistan separatists and Tibetan separatist are under the guise of religion, If no guise of religion, no one follows them.


----------



## qinglong-china

From the middle of the last century, East Turkistan separatists(&#30086;&#29420&#12289; Tibetan separatist&#65288;&#34255;&#29420;&#65289;&#12289; Taiwan independence&#65288;&#21488;&#29420;&#65289; were supported by some western countries and some countries with bad intentions to dismember China. East Turkistan separatists and Tibetan separatist are under the guise of religion, If no guise of religion, no one follows them.


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## Silverblaze

sur said:


> Get ur eyes checked then... or learn some history...
> 
> When Islam was in power, it existed peacefully with all other religions longer than any other civilization in the history of the earth. *~1000 years...*
> 
> Read history, when Muslims ruled any area, like Jerusalem, all religions were given freedom contrary to when *Christians* ruled Jerusalem Jews & Muslims civilians were massacred. *Romans* massacred Jews & Christians civilians. *Mongols* too. *Atheists* rulers massacred their own civilians in Russia & China surpassing total count of other killings in history of the world. *Inquisition* is another example generosity of Christians. And *as for the Jews* , just read the holy scripture of Jews itself, the old testament. Their own scripture testifies against them. "smash heads of breast-feeding infants & kill all non-virgins & keep the virgins for yourselves"
> 
> 
> *I don't see any relation of this video to China, except that it's uploaded on some Chinese website* ... Do you hallucinate???
> 
> & AsianAmerican Looks like you buy propaganda quicker than you do your home work given by a strict teacher... In case you are not in touch, many such videos have poped up in past too.* Those invaders sitting in Afghanistan* gather some locals & make them act for a little filming. Sometimes they show these actors firing at a Christian-Cross. Sometimes they film bunch of cheep actors with their faces covered doing some *gymnastics on monkey-bars* & show sheeple as if they are busy training to take over the world. These ppl that u see hardly have enough to feed themselves let alone perpetrate any attack else where.
> 
> If u were scared by kids firing, then there are lots of *videos of chicks in bikini firing guns*, you should be scared that ladies might be plotting to take over *men*-kind.
> 
> -
> -
> -
> 
> Let me enlighten you with a couple of examples on how they hire locals & for little money or may be just for some candies make them act in these videos...
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> Two French journalists Joel Marc Epstein and Jean Paul Guilloteau
> 
> .
> 
> BBC - Pakistan jails French journalists
> "President Pervez Musharraf criticised the *two men and their Pakistani fixer* for trying to defame the country by falsely presenting the country as a hub of Taleban activities."
> 
> .
> 
> Two French journalists making fake reports arrested from Baluchistan
> "...*fake films on Taliban have been recovered from their possession* which were aimed to tarnish Pakistan's image"
> 
> .
> 
> French Journalists and their arrest in Pakistan
> "A local journalist Syed Khawar Mehdi aiding the two men was also arrested ... involved in making a video *showing fake Taliban guerillas getting arms training within Pakistan*&#8217;s territory."
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> .
> .
> *Second example*
> .
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mo_g0oxygTg
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> Hope now you can get some nightmare-free sleep with your teddy bear...



This is exploitation by the west. 

But can you ignore the fact that many extremists live in Pakistan?

Why didn't you kick out extremists after afghan war?

First you helped the west against the Soviets and ruined your country and then the same west has turned against you.


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## qinglong-china

Silverblaze said:


> Oh come on. Its a very very old movement. And may I remind you that these groups had tacit approval from the US.


you are right. they were supported by CIA, they are under the guise of religion but nothing to do with religion

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## Silverblaze

qinglong-china said:


> you are right. under the guise of religion but nothing to do with religion



No it has to with religion. These children who can't even spell their names properly are given these toys. why?

Same thing happened in Afghanistan in the 80s. Sadly, people do not talk about it. 

US has always used these people as useful idiots to defeat Soviets and now may be China.

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## notsuperstitious

Silverblaze said:


> No it has to with religion. These children who can't even spell their names properly are given these toys. why?
> 
> Same thing happened in Afghanistan in the 80s. Sadly, people do not talk about it.
> 
> US has always used these people as useful idiots to defeat Soviets and now may be China.



Hundreds of educated european converts are in Syria right now, fighting the alawites.

There is an organised hate / brainwashing / militancy campaign run by your religious infrastructure around the world. Do you not see it? Do you not see all these robots repeating the same stuff like zombies? It is nothing to do with religion in theory, in practice the religion seems to live with it pretty comfortably, no?

I'm sure as a thinking muslim, you see the contradiction clearly?


----------



## Safriz

fateh71 said:


> Hundreds of educated european converts are in Syria right now, fighting the alawites.
> 
> There is an organised hate / brainwashing / militancy campaign run by your religious infrastructure around the world. Do you not see it? Do you not see all these robots repeating the same stuff like zombies? It is nothing to do with religion in theory, in practice the religion seems to live with it pretty comfortably, no?
> 
> I'm sure as a thinking muslim, you see the contradiction clearly?



In case of syria,the BRAINWASH has come from western media as they have been glorifying and supporting syrian rebels since it started.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/04/11/uk-syria-crisis-usa-idUKBRE93A16U20130411

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## qinglong-china

Silverblaze said:


> No it has to with religion. These children who can't even spell their names properly are given these toys. why?
> 
> Same thing happened in Afghanistan in the 80s. Sadly, people do not talk about it.
> 
> US has always used these people as useful idiots to defeat Soviets and now may be China.


From the middle of the last century, US and some counties following US had supported new East Turkistan separatists, not 1980s.
From the beginning of the 20th century to the late 1940s, the old "East Turkistan" forces were in the instigation of foreign forces and support

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## notsuperstitious

Safriz said:


> In case of syria,the BRAINWASH has come from western media as they have been glorifying and supporting syrian rebels since it started.
> 
> U.S. senators push for military aid for Syrian rebels | Reuters



All the biographies I've read so far, they were all indoctrinated and made into zombies at their mosque, not by watching CNN.


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## Safriz

fateh71 said:


> All the biographies I've read so far, they were all indoctrinated and made into zombies at their mosque, not by watching CNN.



Exatly...
CNN doesn't have telepathic powers or mind control..same is the case of a cleric,they say things same as CNN..but it depends on the listener how he or she takes it in.


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## Kompromat

PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Aeronaut said:


> PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.



And how can we give more rights in Xinjiang when terrorist attacks keep happening? 

That puts the government in an impossible position. If the government backs down, that just sends the message that terrorism is the right way to improve their rights.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Aeronaut said:


> PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.



Look, 10 out of 15 civilian casualty were Uyghurs, so it is not about the religion oppression, but a CIA plotted attack with the goal to derail the stability of China.

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## darkhero

Aeronaut said:


> PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.



Those Muslims are lazy, they resent other Chinese because they are poor, but many of them are just sitting in front of their house everyday without doing anything. When they need money, they just form gangs to steal and loot around China, everywhere. Recently, there was "qiegao" incident best description of those people.

Don't believe me? If you have a chance, ask your Hui Muslim brothers to see their opinions. There are also many other Muslim group in China, including 1.5 million Kazakhs, we have no any problem with them.

If they continue to do so, we will surely have much tougher rule against Muslims.


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## Silverblaze

fateh71 said:


> Hundreds of educated european converts are in Syria right now, fighting the alawites.
> 
> There is an organised hate / brainwashing / militancy campaign run by your religious infrastructure around the world. Do you not see it? Do you not see all these robots repeating the same stuff like zombies? It is nothing to do with religion in theory, in practice the religion seems to live with it pretty comfortably, no?
> 
> I'm sure as a thinking muslim, you see the contradiction clearly?



Firstly, do not assume that I am a muslim. 

Secondly, it starts from the uneducated class and when the society fails to curtail it it spreads across the societies. 

Why is that many educated people are racists. The muslim countries have always towed the US line and promoted extremism in their own countries and continued it. 

After 9/11, things changed but the years of indoctrination didn't just dissolve. 

All of us who were called communist agents or pimps by US lackeys, warned that just to defeat the Soviets, a savage ideology is being used that would engulf everyone.

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## ChineseTiger1986

darkhero said:


> Those Muslims are lazy, they resent other Chinese because they are poor, but many of them are just sitting in front of their house everyday without doing anything. When they need money, they just form gangs to steal and loot around China, everywhere. Recently, there was "qiegao" incident best description of those people.
> 
> Don't believe me? If you have a chance, ask your Hui Muslim brothers to see their opinions. There are also many other Muslim group in China, including 1.5 million Kazakhs, we have no any problem with them.
> 
> If they continue to do so, we will surely have much tougher rule against Muslims.



Muslims have their own life style, it is ok for China if nobody wants to cause problems.

Now this thread will just succumb into another divide conquer tactic set by USA.


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## Silverblaze

qinglong-china said:


> From the middle of the last century, US and some counties following US had supported new East Turkistan separatists, not 1980s.
> From the beginning of the 20th century to the late 1940s, the old "East Turkistan" forces were in the instigation of foreign forces and support



I was comparing US strategies with the situation in China. Imperial powers, especially Britain and US have used extremism extensively. Insurgency needs a reason to survive and when they find it no matter what it is, it is used.


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## Kompromat

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Look, 10 out of 15 civilian casualty were Uyghurs, so it is not about the religion oppression, but a CIA plotted attack with the goal to derail the stability of China.



I have friends who have visited Xinjiang a number of times to Kashgher and other areas and i also had a friend at University who was a Uyghur. Both of them had similar accounts of religious suppression and heavy handed behavior by the Chinese authorities. We Pakistanis are friends with China and its people and we wish to see no instability in PRC,but the solution lies with Beijing to introduce reforms and give its citizens their due rights. Lets assume CIA is at play,which is a possibility by all means. Why even give them the space to operate when you can eradicate most of the militancy by reforms and introducing the same level of infrastructure development and job creation we saw in other parts of China?

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## qinglong-china

darkhero said:


> Those Muslims are lazy, they resent other Chinese because they are poor, but many of them are just sitting in front of their house everyday without doing anything. When they need money, they just form gangs to steal and loot around China, everywhere. Recently, there was "qiegao" incident best description of those people.
> 
> Don't believe me? If you have a chance, ask your Hui Muslim brothers to see their opinions. There are also many other Muslim group in China, including 1.5 million Kazakhs, we have no any problem with them.
> 
> If they continue to do so, we will surely have much tougher rule against Muslims.


Nothing to do with religion. it is East Turkistan separatists


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## ChineseTiger1986

Silverblaze said:


> I was comparing US strategies with the situation in China. Imperial powers, especially Britain and US have used extremism extensively. Insurgency needs a reason to survive and when they find it no matter what it is, it is used.



The PRC government only wants the stability, now this attack caused 15 civilian casualty (10 Uyghurs, 3 Hans, 2 Mongolians).

I am still amazed how people can blame the Chinese government for this plotted attack, do they really believe that the Chinese government loves to kill its own citizens for fun?

Chinese members here don't just hate Muslims because of the western backed terrorists plot, and Pakistani members here don't get clouded by the western propaganda that China oppressed its Muslim population.

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## Kompromat

darkhero said:


> Those Muslims are lazy, they resent other Chinese because they are poor, but many of them are just sitting in front of their house everyday without doing anything. When they need money, they just form gangs to steal and loot around China, everywhere. Recently, there was "qiegao" incident best description of those people.
> 
> Don't believe me? If you have a chance, ask your Hui Muslim brothers to see their opinions. There are also many other Muslim group in China, including 1.5 million Kazakhs, we have no any problem with them.
> 
> If they continue to do so, we will surely have much tougher rule against Muslims.



Blaming the laziness of your own citizens is the easier way out. If you wish to see harmony and not allow the foreign trouble making intel agencies to turn you into a fireball, you must introduce reforms, allow people to practice their faith freely,invest and create jobs, create infrastructure and development. No one wants to remain jobless, that is just a stereotype. If Beijing is interested in maintaining its stability and creating a streamlined society,it would have to change the way it deals with its citizens.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Aeronaut said:


> I have friends who have visited Xinjiang a number of times to Kashgher and other areas and i also had a friend at University who was a Uyghur. Both of them had similar accounts of religious suppression and heavy handed behavior by the Chinese authorities. We Pakistanis are friends with China and its people and we wish to see no instability in PRC,but the solution lies with Beijing to introduce reforms and give its citizens their due rights. Lets assume CIA is at play,which is a possibility by all means. Why even give them the space to operate when you can eradicate most of the militancy by reforms and introducing the same level of infrastructure development and job creation we saw in other parts of China?



Because some Uyghurs wanna conduct the separatism, but not all Muslims have problem with China since PRC never oppressed their religion, but stopping separatism is a different matter from oppresing the religion.

Chinese muslims celebrate Eid Al-Adha - YouTube

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## Kompromat

qinglong-china said:


> Nothing to do with religion. it is East Turkistan separatists



Separatists will lose only if you deal with what the narrative they sell to people to justify their existence. Most of them,would be jobless kids,disenchanted with Beijing, give them jobs, most of them will move away and look after their families and live their lives,those who wont can be fought and defeated.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Aeronaut said:


> I have friends who have visited Xinjiang a number of times to Kashgher and other areas and i also had a friend at University who was a Uyghur. Both of them had similar accounts of religious suppression and heavy handed behavior by the Chinese authorities. We Pakistanis are friends with China and its people and we wish to see no instability in PRC,but the solution lies with Beijing to introduce reforms and give its citizens their due rights. Lets assume CIA is at play,which is a possibility by all means. Why even give them the space to operate when you can eradicate most of the militancy by reforms and introducing the same level of infrastructure development and job creation we saw in other parts of China?



Your solution, to give them more rights in response to terrorist attacks, has that worked in Pakistan?

That is just giving positive reinforcement and rewards, to extremism and terrorism, to make it the most effective method to get more rights.

From what I have read, in FATA and Baluchistan, you pretty much let them rule themselves, especially in the tribal areas. I.e. Nearly full autonomy.

But has that stopped the attacks? Once they know terrorism works, and will get them more concessions from the government, why would they ever stop?

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## sur

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Look, 10 out of 15 civilian casualty were Uyghurs, so it is not about the religion oppression, but* a CIA plotted attack with the goal to derail the stability of China*.



100% agree. It's only a matter of time when US beats off from Afghanistan. & God willing *things will restore back to normal*...  May be one more year (2014?) but US might try hard to mess up things more before she leaves. I sometimes wonder what US is trying to achieve by messing up the peace of the world? They can get better outcome in their favour if they do business like normal, without interfering with others affairs...!


This video talks of a plot that US federal govt plotted thru some *Iranian-double-agents* who working for FBI\CIA. It makes me think that recent plot where an Iman tipped off RCMP to derail VIA train was also linked to some guys in Iran... It might also be another one of those Iranian-double-agents.(?) & *to keep it in close proximity to Boston's event* those Iranian-CIA-agents were instructed to speed up their activities so that RCMP is prompted to act (thou they were watching for 1 year).
S-&-Co"

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## Silverblaze

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The PRC government only wants the stability, now this attack caused 15 civilian casualty (10 Uyghurs, 3 Hans, 2 Mongolians).
> 
> I am still amazed how people can blame the Chinese government for this plotted attack, do they really believe that the Chinese government loves to kill its own citizens for fun?
> 
> Chinese members here don't just hate Muslims because of the western backed terrorists plot, and Pakistani members here don't get clouded by the western propaganda that China oppressed its Muslim population.



Listen there is anti muslim sentiment in China, quite a bit, but they are your people. Culturally they are more close to you than their co religionists anywhere. 

China would overcome this problem because you are not Pakistan. Pakistan does not bring in reforms and cries when other exploit. 

Just invest more and more. You are developing new cities which is good, but be on your guard against some forces because they just cannot see anyone exercising power.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Aeronaut said:


> Separatists will lose only if you deal with what the narrative they sell to people to justify their existence. Most of them,would be jobless kids,disenchanted with Beijing, give them jobs, most of them will move away and look after their families and live their lives,those who wont can be fought and defeated.



Not jobless, but many Uyghur youths will be recruited by the military.

And don't worry, even most PLA soldiers are Atheists, but when it comes to the minorities, the religious faith can be tolerated.














Silverblaze said:


> Listen there is anti muslim sentiment in China, quite a bit, but they are your people. Culturally they are more close to you than their co religionists anywhere.
> 
> China would overcome this problem because you are not Pakistan. Pakistan does not bring in reforms and cries when other exploit.
> 
> Just invest more and more. You are developing new cities which is good, but be on your guard against some forces because they just cannot see anyone exercising power.



Some Han Chinese have been just blinded by ultranationalism or western propaganda, but CPC is not the western government which has been controlled by a bunch of nutcases with the old schoold crusader mentality.

CPC can tolerate all kind of religion, but it can never tolerate the separatism.

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## Kompromat

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Your solution, to give them more rights in response to terrorist attacks, has that worked in Pakistan?
> 
> That is just giving positive reinforcement and rewards, to extremism and terrorism, to make it the most effective method to get more rights.
> 
> From what I have read, in FATA and Baluchistan, you pretty much let them rule themselves, especially in the tribal areas. I.e. Nearly full autonomy.
> 
> But has that stopped the attacks? Once they know terrorism works, and will get them more concessions from the government, why would they ever stop?



Our case is different, i will try to explain it, point by point.

FATA: Is not part of Pakistan,its an autonomous region directly linked to Islamabad. We had a deal with them to allow them, to live according to their culture and traditions. If you look at the history, it has always worked,mind you we NEVER had to deploy regular Army on the western front to deal with Afghanistan,our tribes were enough to defend our borders. We started to have issues in those agencies after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the mass migration that followed. TTP and other terror outfits are hugely unpopular among the tribals. Drone strikes and our sell out govt, murdering its own citizens at the behest of the Americans have lead us into the mess we are in right now.

BLA: Was created by Moscow to pave the way for the 2nd step of Afghan invasion, which was to invade and occupy Balochistan and Gwadar. BLA is a Marxist organization and its purpose was to spread instability and pave the ground for soviet ground invasion. It too is deeply unpopular among the people and our program to give rights and royalties to our Baloch citizens have calmed the situation down to a level where we are now having elections in Balochistan. BLA and BRA's collective force has been reduced to 5000 as we have been providing jobs, amnesty,skills and education. If we keep fighting, we will not be able to pave the way for SinoPak strategic intests in the Arbian sea. 

There is a saying in Urdu "_Why poison the one who can be killed by honey?_"

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## qinglong-china

Aeronaut said:


> Separatists will lose only if you deal with what the narrative they sell to people to justify their existence. Most of them,would be jobless kids,disenchanted with Beijing, give them jobs, most of them will move away and look after their families and live their lives,those who wont can be fought and defeated.


Your ignorance of history. According to your logic, Several Uighur behalf of all Uighurs, your friends will be able to represent all of the Uighur. A country a few criminals mean that all people of the country are criminals.
stupid logic


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## Kompromat

qinglong-china said:


> Your ignorance of history. According to your logic, Several Uighur behalf of all Uighurs, your friends will be able to represent all of the Uighur. A country a few criminals mean that all people of the country are criminals.
> stupid logic



Or maybe you are just too ignorant to understand?... No more further arguments and personal attacks wont be tolerated. I will instruct you to maintain civility.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Aeronaut said:


> There is a saying in Urdu "_Why poison the one who can be killed by honey?_"



That's a good point.

I feel we can do both at the same time in Xinjiang. Provide economic development and opportunities to the average person in order to keep them away from extremism, and simultaneously crack down hard on the extremists/separatists themselves.

But we must never make it look like violent tactics are an effective strategy. Which is what will happen if we back down and grant concessions after a terrorist attack has occurred.

The USA failed to do this in Afghanistan, they failed to successfully push the idea that terrorism is ineffective.

If anything, terror attacks in Afghanistan carry the perception of being very effective, so why would they stop doing it?

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## Kompromat

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That's a good point.
> 
> I feel we can do both at the same time in Xinjiang. Provide economic development and opportunities to the average person in order to keep them away from extremism, and simultaneously crack down hard on the extremists/separatists themselves.
> 
> But we must never make it look like violent tactics are an effective strategy. Which is what will happen if we back down and grant concessions after a terrorist attack has occurred.
> 
> The USA failed to do this in Afghanistan, they failed to successfully push the idea that terrorism is ineffective.
> 
> If anything, terror attacks in Afghanistan carry the perception of being very effective, so why would they stop doing it?




Economic development will, not leave much space for foreign interests to manipulate Chinese population against their own countrymen. After the level of economic growth that has been carried out in other parts of China, the level of opposition will automatically reduced to an insignificant level.

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## Silverblaze

Aeronaut said:


> Our case is different, i will try to explain it, point by point.
> 
> FATA: Is not part of Pakistan,its an autonomous region directly linked to Islamabad. We had a deal with them to allow them, to live according to their culture and traditions. If you look at the history, it has always worked,mind you we NEVER had to deploy regular Army on the western front to deal with Afghanistan,our tribes were enough to defend our borders. We started to have issues in those agencies after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the mass migration that followed. TTP and other terror outfits are hugely unpopular among the tribals. Drone strikes and our sell out govt, murdering its own citizens at the behest of the Americans have lead us into the mess we are in right now.
> 
> BLA: Was created by Moscow to pave the way for the 2nd step of Afghan invasion, which was to invade and occupy Balochistan and Gwadar. BLA is a Marxist organization and its purpose was to spread instability and pave the ground for soviet ground invasion. It too is deeply unpopular among the people and our program to give rights and royalties to our Baloch citizens have calmed the situation down to a level where we are now having elections in Balochistan. BLA and BRA's collective force has been reduced to 5000 as we have been providing jobs, amnesty,skills and education. If we keep fighting, we will not be able to pave the way for SinoPak strategic intests in the Arbian sea.
> 
> There is a saying in Urdu "_Why poison the one who can be killed by honey?_"



You completely erased the role of the state of Pakistan during the 1980s. Why? Do you consider it your own victory against the Soviets?

Why was there never a single effort to evaluate the damages done after the war? After every war, this is the standard procedure. 

30 thousand armed militia men didn't just dissolve. Where did they go?

They spread their ideologies, China, Afg, Pakistan, and beyond. And the US has been using them like useful idiots.


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## Kompromat

Silverblaze said:


> You completely erased the role of the state of Pakistan during the 1980s. Why? Do you consider it your own victory against the Soviets?
> 
> Why was there never a single effort to evaluate the damages done after the war? After every war, this is the standard procedure.
> 
> 30 thousand armed militia men didn't just dissolve. Where did they go?
> 
> They spread their ideologies, China, Afg, Pakistan, and beyond. And the US has been using them like useful idiots.



Failures occur, and we didn't have the leadership nor the experience to deal with the aftermath of the Afghan war.


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## qinglong-china

Aeronaut said:


> Or maybe you are just too ignorant to understand?... No more further arguments and personal attacks wont be tolerated. I will instruct you to maintain civility.


No more further argument? Accordding to what your friends said, you start to say most of them are jobless kids, disenchanted with Beijing. In Xinjiang, the unemployment rate 3.2%, 3.2% represent all of the Uighur?


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## Sasquatch

asianamerican said:


> That's f-ing sad. Brainwashing and training kids to kill. China need to put stomp this before it gets out of control and terrorist starting targeting major cities in China. These kids deserved better.
> 
> Looks like Islam can't coexist with any other religion.



No need to blame a whole religion based off a small group of bad apples now, I remember security forces raided a camp like this in southern Xinjiang back years ago.



Aeronaut said:


> PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.



Actually the government does look after minorities, that is why Uyghur get benefits in Universities , jobs, exempted from the one child policies. Let me give you an account of a true story between a Uyghur vendor and Han customer basically over some the purchasing of food in which the Uyghur selling and charged more then the Han customer demanded, the police took the side of the Uyghur as they do in similar cases. Reform and development has been carried out in Xinjiang that is why southern Xinjiang which is poorer has been given funds and increase of funds for development and increase in religious schools. And yes repression does exist however it exists for several other religious groups not only for one group, if you change it for one group you have to change it for all groups and that does not happen in China as it does in other places, takes time to change. 

All citizens can express sorrow however extremism or in the case of the video with the being children indoctrinated, committing terror attacks, or starting riots does not help, never has never will.

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## jaunty

Wow they are teaching these 8-10 year old kids how to do jehad instead of sending them to school. Pretty sad I must say. Crush these jehadis with extreme prejudice, gotta nip them in the bud, before they become too hot to handle. I have faith in the Chinese govt. I am sure they will do whatever is required to end this jehad.


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## Silverblaze

Aeronaut said:


> Failures occur, and we didn't have the leadership nor the experience to deal with the aftermath of the Afghan war.



And I suppose that is the end of that.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Silverblaze said:


> 30 thousand armed militia men didn't just dissolve. Where did they go?
> 
> They spread their ideologies, China, Afg, Pakistan, and beyond. *And the US has been using them like useful idiots.*



And they are letting themselves be used by the USA.

The USA can't have a proxy unless these groups voluntarily agree to do their dirty work.

And they accept, because they were already doing it. The foreign funding just helps them to continue doing what they wanted to do all along.

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## Kompromat

Silverblaze said:


> And I suppose that is the end of that.



Complicated problem,require long term solutions,which requires leadership which we don't have right now. You can draw your own conclusions.


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## Wright

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And they are letting themselves be used by the USA.
> 
> The USA can't have a proxy unless these groups voluntarily agree to do their dirty work.
> 
> And they accept, because they were already doing it. The foreign funding just helps them to continue doing what they wanted to do all along.



Why do Tibetians hate China? Is it religious/ethnic conflict?


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## itaskol

Wright said:


> Why do Tibetians hate China? Is it religious/ethnic conflict?



who told you that Tibetans hate china? your propaganda medias??


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## Solomon2

Isn't Kashi on the main route to and from Pakistan?


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## Wright

itaskol said:


> who told you that Tibetans hate china? your propaganda medias??



I work with a few at my job.


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## itaskol

Wright said:


> I work with a few at my job.


are you sure they are chinese tibetans or india tibetans?


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## ephone

We have these terrorists problems for quite a long time. Let's kill those Uighur terrorists bastards.

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## ChineseTiger1986

ephone said:


> We have these terrorists problems for quite a long time. Let's kill those Uighur terrorists bastards.



They are backed by CIA, since most victims of this attack were Uighurs, so they are even killing their own people without mercy.

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## itaskol

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They are backed by CIA, since most victims of this attack were Uighurs, so they are even killing their own people without mercy.



exactly&#65292; it is USA we have to blame for this kind of attack. and pakistani taliban also give the Uighurs training and support.
in the view of the Americans and pakistani Taliban, the uigurs are freedom fighter. 
I will not be surprised if the uiguhrs someday in the future blast bombs in USA.

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## ephone

Why don't you suckers come to get it???

We kicked your axxes thousand years back and we would be glad to kick your axxes again. 



atatwolf said:


> Turkistan needs full independence from Ching Chong b-class mass factory. Why? because China is occupying their land and if you read the Chinese comments above you understand how Chinese primitive mind is.



For those tibetians who hate China, they can all join their dalai lama in india and rot there. 



Wright said:


> I work with a few at my job.



Very simple. Kill them all.



jaunty said:


> Wow they are teaching these 8-10 year old kids how to do jehad instead of sending them to school. Pretty sad I must say. Crush these jehadis with extreme prejudice, gotta nip them in the bud, before they become too hot to handle. I have faith in the Chinese govt. I am sure they will do whatever is required to end this jehad.


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## ephone

We have this kind of islam terrorist disease even before Israel was a country.

Don't worry about. We treat this disease quite effectively.

The solution: use greater terror against those terrorists. 



samantk said:


> Sad to hear... Even China is not being spared by the spread of this cancer.



We have this kind of islam terrorist disease even before Israel was a country.

Don't worry about. We treat this disease quite effectively.

The solution: use greater terror against those terrorists. 



samantk said:


> Sad to hear... Even China is not being spared by the spread of this cancer.

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## Navigator

RIP to brave officers, that lost their lives in the fight against terrorism..

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## ephone

Very simple. You do not see maoists or silkh terrorizing people everywhere. islam terrorists are!!!

BTW, those two boston bombers are also brained washed by those islam terrorists as well. 



imran169 said:


> @To some INdianx...why are you people trying to put islam in every matter? even if their is some sort of killing in personal issues in any country,you retarded people are the first to blame islam,this is islamic terrorism n blah blah...! if your criteria is this then there are sikh terrorists too in your country who fought for khalistan(though im not a supporter of this)...there are maoists..hindu terrorists too..shiv sena? or remember samjota express? why you mentally ill people are so obsessed with islam?
> if some people in balochistan kills security personals or do anything else then you call them Separatists ,and when the same happens in Kashmir or some other areas of your country then you call it ISLAMIC TERRORISM..what a double standards of you indians...! and when comes to islam ,islam says IF YOU KILL ONE HUMAN ,IT MEANS YOU KILL WHOLE HUMANITY....now if you have any sense then dont call some personal actions of mentally ill muslims islamic TERRORISM...itna tou WEST nhe rota jitni taklif tm indians ko hoti hai..huh....and what happens in China May the souls of dead people RIP...we n obviously islam condemn this,may the people who does this Rot in hell..!

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## xuxu1457

Some one want make it has relation with Pak
Some one want make it Religion problem
Some one want make it a freedom fighter

Do any one think that Chinese or China are stupid?? Terrorists are terrorists, no matter who they are, Chinese, American or from any other countries; for what, for "freedom", for Ambition&#65292;for Holy war, for .....; If they attack on civilians, just kill them

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## ephone

When China has tighter control over its muslims, China enjoy more peaceful time internally. 

We will for sure not let our guards down.



AUz said:


> 49 Muslim-majority strong states..
> 4-5 disputed states (Like Nigeria, some say Christians are majority, some say Muslims)..
> 2-3 Muslim 'plurality' states..(mean Muslims form the largest group but not majority)...
> 
> All in all, OIC is composed of 57 states...
> 
> But what does it has to do with the topic?
> 
> These terrorists are idiots,,,,I bet U.S/India is funding these guys ...no wonder U.S came in the region..
> 
> China should tighten its security, and give more rights/freedoms to Chinese Muslims living in the region...

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## theone-neo

this is something new!!!!!! china have terrorist????? holly **** !!! give thm **********


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## canadian icehole

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They are backed by CIA, since most victims of this attack were Uighurs, so they are even killing their own people without mercy.



Radicalized Uighurs view normal peaceful Uighurs as sell outs / traitors which invalidate their identity.


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## Wright

China is East Asia's buffer to the middle east. Thanks to Chinese efforts to contain Islam, It has not spread to Japan and Korea.


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## itaskol

Wright said:


> China is East Asia's buffer to the middle east. Thanks to Chinese efforts to contain Islam, It has not spread to Japan and Korea.



religion does not have border. maybe someday canada will become islamic repubic of canada.

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## skyknight

Most terrorists in Xinjiang are trained in Pakistan, with the fund support from Saudi Arab and Turkey, USA.

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## itaskol

skyknight said:


> Most terrorists in Xinjiang are trained in Pakistan, with the fund support from Saudi Arab and Turkey, USA.



most of them are trained in pakistani tribe area with TTP together


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## cnleio

> Most terrorists in Xinjiang are trained in Pakistan, with the fund support from Saudi Arab and Turkey, USA.





> most of them are trained in pakistani tribe area with TTP together



All r opened secret Chinese know it and usually they back to XinJiang through the Kashmir.
Before the Afghanistan War, most XinJiang Jihad trained by Afghan Taliban. But recently the camps setting in North of Pakistan by TTP.

For these foreign training camps, sometimes China and Pakistan need to have a talk !

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## Nan Yang

Really ? 

US expresses concerns over violent confrontation in China's Xinjiang



> The United States has expressed concern over violent confrontation in the Xinjiang province of China. "We are deeply concerned by the reports of violent confrontation in Xinjiang that left 21 people dead.
> 
> We will continue to monitor the situation carefully," the US State Department spokesperson Patrick Ventrell told reporters at his daily news conference yesterday.
> 
> "We regret the unfortunate acts of violence that led to these casualties, and we'll continue to encourage Chinese officials to take steps to reduce tensions and promote long-term stability in Xinjiang," he said.
> 
> Ventrell urged the Chinese authorities to conduct a thorough and transparent investigation of this incident, and to provide all Chinese citizens, including Uighurs, the due process protections to which they are entitled not only under China's constitutional laws but under their international human rights commitments as well.
> 
> During the press conference, Ventrell also urged China to release Memetjan Abdulla, who worked as an editor of the state-run China National Radio's Uighur Service and was detained in July 2009 for allegedly instigating ethnic rioting in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region via posts on the Uighur-language website Salkin.


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## itaskol

cnleio said:


> All r opened secret Chinese know it and usually they back to XinJiang through the Kashmir.
> Before the Afghanistan War, most XinJiang Jihad trained by Afghan Taliban. But recently the camps setting in North of Pakistan by TTP.
> 
> For these foreign training camps, sometimes China and Pakistan need to have a talk !



we can not blame pakistan. pakistan itself is the victim.
the original sins are from saudi wahabis, USA and maybe turkey.


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## anilindia

itaskol said:


> we can not blame pakistan. pakistan itself is the victim.
> the original sins are from saudi wahabis, USA and maybe turkey.



But Pakistan supported them in past and trained them.


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## cnleio

itaskol said:


> we can not blame pakistan. pakistan itself is the victim.
> the original sins are from saudi wahabis, USA and maybe turkey.


I didn't blame, i just said TALK ... ... i also read information in military forums that some Pakistani military officers and intelligence agents could harbor sympathies for their former allies(TTP), and these TTP continue train XinJiang Jihad in their training camps. Anyway that's ur business, but a friend never back-stab others so we need a TALK.


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## jhungary

I found it funny on some member's comment here

When China got Jihaded, it's the American faults
When America got Jihaded, it's the American faults
When Russia got Jihaded, it's, you guess it, American faults again

Do we need to invade Tibet, Xinjian and Chechen to right our wrong? Say the word, we're there

RIP to the victim

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## xuxu1457

I still don't know what the terrorist think about?? It is very urgly to attack civilian.


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## muse

very few Pakistanis on this thread - that is very strange that Pakistanis would not support Chinese brother ally on this thread


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## xuxu1457

jhungary said:


> I found it funny on some member's comment here
> 
> When China got Jihaded, it's the American faults
> When America got Jihaded, it's the American faults
> When Russia got Jihaded, it's, you guess it, American faults again
> 
> Do we need to invade Tibet, Xinjian and Chechen to right our wrong? Say the word, we're there
> 
> RIP to the victim


Bcs terrorists become stronger under the attack of US, US should kill them all but not &#8220;train&#8221; them by actual combat&#65292;Counter-terrorism should be efficient&#65292; but now make them drift from one country to another

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## itaskol

cnleio said:


> I didn't blame, i just said TALK ... ... i also read information in military forums that some Pakistani military officers and intelligence agents could harbor sympathies for their former allies(TTP), and these TTP continue train XinJiang Jihad in their training camps. Anyway that's ur business, but a friend never back-stab others so we need a TALK.



very complex. 
officially we dont even call it pakistan in this kind of news. we call it " one of the south asia countries".
&#20844;&#23433;&#37096;&#35748;&#23450;6&#21517;&#19996;&#31361;&#20998;&#23376; &#22312;&#21335;&#20122;&#26576;&#22269;&#25509;&#21463;&#35757;&#32451;


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## Syrian Lion

RIP to the officers.. they died for their country China...

China need to CRACKDOWN ON THESE TERRORISTS QUICKLY, they are dangerous and contagious...

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## cnleio

itaskol said:


> very complex.
> officially we dont even call it pakistan in this kind of news. we call it " one of the south asia countries".
> &#20844;&#23433;&#37096;&#35748;&#23450;6&#21517;&#19996;&#31361;&#20998;&#23376; &#22312;&#21335;&#20122;&#26576;&#22269;&#25509;&#21463;&#35757;&#32451;



LOL, I had said it's a opened secret in China ---> a south asia country. And i have writen all in my former post.


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## jhungary

xuxu1457 said:


> Bcs terrorists become stronger under the attack of US, US should kill them all but not &#8220;train&#8221; them by actual combat&#65292;Counter-terrorism should be efficient&#65292; but now make them drift from one country to another



Problem is, we fight them over there so we don't need to fight them inside US. Now China have the same dilemma, you want to fight them at your home or you want to fight them where they at?

CIA don't need to get involve in this issue despite some member say it's clearly backed by the CIA. One thing you need to know about Muslim Extremism is, when they know they can move in and get their job done, there are MANY fellow Muslim fund them regardless if they know what the money is for. Muslim in Middle East is much, much more richer than the CIA, if the Extremist got their way, they will not lack the funding.

Of course you can blame the American on this matter, you will just got more bombs and violence falling over your head. I even heard one member here say the US fund the Pakistan Taliban ad train those separatist in China...LOL if we can do that, we don't need 10 years to find OBL ....

We did what we have to do, now it's probably time for you to do the same


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## muse

itaskol said:


> we can not blame pakistan. pakistan itself is the victim.
> the original sins are from saudi wahabis, USA and maybe turkey.



But you can tell the Pakistanis to put an end to it - not just for your sake but for the sake of those people in Pakistan who are being killed by Islamist terrorists everyday - Tell Pakistan, you don't think this is good for friendship between Pakistan and China -- as you can see, there are very few Pakistanis on this thread - you want to know why?


----------



## hurt

Aeronaut said:


> I have friends who have visited Xinjiang a number of times to Kashgher and other areas and i also had a friend at University who was a Uyghur. Both of them had similar accounts of religious suppression and heavy handed behavior by the Chinese authorities. We Pakistanis are friends with China and its people and we wish to see no instability in PRC,but the solution lies with Beijing to introduce reforms and give its citizens their due rights. Lets assume CIA is at play,which is a possibility by all means. Why even give them the space to operate when you can eradicate most of the militancy by reforms and introducing the same level of infrastructure development and job creation we saw in other parts of China?



Naked lies


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## itaskol

muse said:


> But you can tell the Pakistanis to put an end to it - not just for your sake but for the sake of those people in Pakistan who are being killed by Islamist terrorists everyday - Tell Pakistan, you don't think this is good for friendship between Pakistan and China -- as you can see, there are very few Pakistanis on this thread - you want to know why?



I also dont understand why Islamic extremnist groups attacks pakistani own people.
they are supposed to fight against indians.


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## jhungary

Seriously.....

People think it's US behind this need to think again. Especially if you are Chinese and you think like that.

Things like this, have a small window you can work on before things out of control. If you look at the wrong side of the mirror then you will never get rid of these kind of Attack in China. Blame the US for all I care, you better hope it is actually the US tho, because from what I learn in Iraq and Afghanistan, once they know how to hit you and you can't fight back, they will only do it more and more effective. Waste your time and blame the US, you are letting the actual source go. Once they know these kind of stuff work then you will never ever going to get rid of these attack ever again.

Seriously, think about it.

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## hurt

Silverblaze said:


> Listen there is anti muslim sentiment in China, quite a bit, but they are your people. Culturally they are more close to you than their co religionists anywhere.
> 
> China would overcome this problem because you are not Pakistan. Pakistan does not bring in reforms and cries when other exploit.
> 
> Just invest more and more. You are developing new cities which is good, but be on your guard against some forces because they just cannot see anyone exercising power.



There is no anti muslim sentiment in China.

In Chinese mind that Uighur are not muslim.


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## AUz

ephone said:


> When China has tighter control over its muslims, China enjoy more peaceful time internally.
> 
> We will for sure not let our guards down.



Control your Muslims...don't oppress them.

Give them economic opportunities, curb down the discrimination against them, educate them, give them more religious freedom, make sure they aren't being taught extremism etc etc..all this is good form of 'controlling your masses'...

Oppression will only give rise to extremism...

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## muse

itaskol said:


> I also dont understand why Islamic extremnist groups attacks pakistani own people.
> they are supposed to fight against indians.



To them there are two kinds of people - their kind and the dead kind - but very many Pakistanis support islamist terrorists, very many - they can' tell the difference between Islam and Islamism, between islamist and Muslim -- so you see, a very big part of the problem of terrorism in China is really the understanding and attitude of a very large number of people in Pakistan - 49000 pakistanis have been killed by Islamist terrorists, but political parties in Pakistan openly support the Islamist terrorists, even the Army chief offers them support in his speech, newspapers praise the Islamist terrorists, and mullahs praise them in Masajid -- this is the reason why you ee very few Pakistanis on this thread to offer you their support and brotherly sympathy.

This is a very harsh and ugly truth about a very large number of people in Pakistan and on this forum - but it is best that one has eyes open - no friend is a friend, and no ally is a ally, when they do not support you against the enemy.

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## itaskol

AUz said:


> Control your Muslims...don't oppress them.
> 
> Give them economic opportunities, curb down the discrimination against them, educate them, give them more religious freedom, make sure they aren't being taught extremism etc etc..all this is good form of 'controlling your masses'...
> 
> Oppression will only give rise to extremism...


one question
according to the koran. can muslims be controlled by other people?

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## muse

Lets see if any Pakistanis will give you a honest answer to this question -- anyways, don't wait for their answer, treat all criminals the same, treat ideologies of hate the same way

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## Syrian Lion

no matter what, no matter what religion, extremism is bad, and must be stopped...


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## hurt

anilindia said:


> But Pakistan supported them in past and trained them.



You supported dalai lama


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## IND151

RIP to dead


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## anilindia

itaskol said:


> one question
> according to the koran. can muslims be controlled by other people?



China is run by their law not by religion...It is a athiet country...



hurt said:


> You supported dalai lama



Dalai lama is not bombing china. Dont compare dalia lama with Xinjiang terrorist


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> I found it funny on some member's comment here
> 
> When China got Jihaded, it's the American faults
> When America got Jihaded, it's the American faults
> When Russia got Jihaded, it's, you guess it, American faults again
> 
> Do we need to invade Tibet, Xinjian and Chechen to right our wrong? Say the word, we're there
> 
> RIP to the victim



June 7, 2007
George Bush Meets Rebiya Kadeer who a top leader of Xinjian Terrorists


----------



## itaskol

anilindia said:


> China is run by their law not by religion...It is a athiet country...



yes, hope all muslims in china think this way.

but if it is true that according to the koran, muslims can not be controlled by other people.
I think the best solution is to creat a new muslim religion group for china. 
there are already sunnite and shia and... we can creat a new muslim religion for our own muslim people.
the solution should be : we creat a new koran.


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## cnleio

itaskol said:


> yes, hope all muslims in china think this way.
> 
> but if it is true that according to the koran, muslims can not be controlled by other people.
> I think the best solution is to creat a new muslim religion group for china.
> there are already sunnite and shia and... we can creat a new muslim religion for our own muslim people.
> the solution should be : we creat a new koran.


What a JOKE idea , LOL... it's impossible.


----------



## Mirza Jatt

RIP to dead


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## anilindia

itaskol said:


> yes, hope all muslims in china think this way.
> 
> but if it is true that according to the koran, muslims can not be controlled by other people.
> I think the best solution is to creat a new muslim religion group for china.
> there are already sunnite and shia and... we can creat a new muslim religion for our own muslim people.
> the solution should be : we creat a new koran.



They already has one native Han Chinese.
Religion is personal matter and country can not be run by individual thinking.


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## hurt

anilindia said:


> Dalai lama is not bombing china. Dont compare dalia lama with Xinjiang terrorist



Dalai lama let his believers Self-burning.


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## muse

itaskol said:


> yes, hope all muslims in china think this way.
> 
> but if it is true that according to the koran, muslims can not be controlled by other people.
> I think the best solution is to creat a new muslim religion group for china.
> there are already sunnite and shia and... we can creat a new muslim religion for our own muslim people.
> the solution should be : we creat a new koran.



This is a terrible idea - When islamists will come to power, they not only kill Muslims first, Shiah, sunni or any other kind, they will also seek to kill any others who will not submit to them - they are enemy seeking and enemy making - their view of the world is to cleanse it, there can be no one who is not one of them and live in peace.

best way to deal with the situation is to make them dead,to find out who is spreading this idea and make them dead, find out who is training them, and make them dead, find out who is financing them and make them dead - it is like a disease, it must be eradicated.

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## muse

All Chinese friends should read this thread - so they can understand that a great number of people think in the way of Islamist ideology:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/246336-arabic-military-would-best-me-2.html#post4203076

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## hurt

muse said:


> All Chinese friends should read this thread - so they can understand that a great number of people think in the way of Islamist ideology:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/246336-arabic-military-would-best-me-2.html#post4203076



I am not interested in any Religion.

whichever Religion what dont trouble us is same for me .


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## muse

The search for Real, Real, Triple Real truth, for purity, is always trouble - balance is best


----------



## cnleio

muse said:


> This is a terrible idea - When islamists will come to power, they not only kill Muslims first, Shiah, sunni or any other kind, they will also seek to kill any others who will not submit to them - they are enemy seeking and enemy making - their view of the world is to cleanse it, there can be no one who is not one of them and live in peace.
> 
> best way to deal with the situation is to make them dead,to find out who is spreading this idea and make them dead, find out who is training them, and make them dead, find out who is financing them and make them dead - it is like a disease, it must be eradicated.


Effective solution, but too many killing and dead will make China looks like a bloody murder and it's very easy to push China as the enemy for Islam world. 

I think the best and soft way is forcing each China Muslims to accept educations in Chinese School make sure most of young Muslims into normal University (not the religion school), and cut off religion relations with foreigns. This's China XinJing not some Islam Republic, force local Muslims learning in School and improve their living conditions, to end religious influence by using education and technology to replace religions in their mind from generations to generations.

China still need to watch carefully the West of China, at the same time still watch the North of some south Asia country. Chinese not fool and i had said it's a opened secret in China, we were watching local situations.

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## anilindia

hurt said:


> Dalai lama let his believers Self-burning.



There is difference between self-burning and terrorism..


----------



## xuxu1457

jhungary said:


> Problem is, we fight them over there so we don't need to fight them inside US. Now China have the same dilemma, you want to fight them at your home or you want to fight them where they at?
> 
> CIA don't need to get involve in this issue despite some member say it's clearly backed by the CIA. One thing you need to know about Muslim Extremism is, when they know they can move in and get their job done, there are MANY fellow Muslim fund them regardless if they know what the money is for. Muslim in Middle East is much, much more richer than the CIA, if the Extremist got their way, they will not lack the funding.
> 
> Of course you can blame the American on this matter, you will just got more bombs and violence falling over your head. I even heard one member here say the US fund the Pakistan Taliban ad train those separatist in China...LOL if we can do that, we don't need 10 years to find OBL ....
> 
> We did what we have to do, now it's probably time for


US has a very very good place, two big seas only two land neighbors, even so US is hard to avoid Mexican illegal immigrants&#65307; China has 14 land neighbors, 22800KM land boundary, hard to avoid illegal immigrants. In 2010.02.15, US drone killed 15 East Turkistan terrorists in Pak, I think China and US exchanged intelligence at that time


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## hurt

anilindia said:


> There is difference between self-burning and terrorism..



Believers are not Civilian&#65311;
Dalai lama allow innocent people to die ,is not terrorism?

Why Dalai lama dont self-burning?


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## jhungary

hurt said:


> June 7, 2007
> George Bush Meets Rebiya Kadeer who a top leader of Xinjian Terrorists



And UN awarded Saddam Hussein with UNESCO Award.

Does that mean UN is behind the 1991 Kuwait Invasion By Iraq??

What's your point?


----------



## Hindustani

hurt said:


> Believers are not Civilian&#65311;
> Dalai lama allow innocent people to die ,is not terrorism?
> 
> Why Dalai lama dont self-burning?



Dalai Lama isn't the issue here. The topic is about some crazy fanatics going on a killing spree in your western province.


----------



## itaskol

muse said:


> This is a terrible idea - When islamists will come to power, they not only kill Muslims first, Shiah, sunni or any other kind, they will also seek to kill any others who will not submit to them - they are enemy seeking and enemy making - their view of the world is to cleanse it, there can be no one who is not one of them and live in peace.
> 
> best way to deal with the situation is to make them dead,to find out who is spreading this idea and make them dead, find out who is training them, and make them dead, find out who is financing them and make them dead - it is like a disease, it must be eradicated.



we dont want our hands getting dirty.
better lead them killing each other, or let other power to clean them. 
and get benifit form it.


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## itaskol

jhungary said:


> And UN awarded Saddam Hussein with UNESCO Award.
> 
> Does that mean UN is behind the 1991 Kuwait Invasion By Iraq??
> 
> What's your point?



USA also took lot of uyguhrs refugee into USA. and gave them protection
some of them are under National Endowment for Democracy


----------



## hurt

jhungary said:


> And UN awarded Saddam Hussein with UNESCO Award.
> 
> Does that mean UN is behind the 1991 Kuwait Invasion By Iraq??
> 
> What's your point?



Xinjian Terrorists terrorist attacks from 1990.
George Bush Meets Rebiya Kadeer in 2007


----------



## muse

cnleio said:


> Effective solution, but too many killing and dead will make China looks like a bloody murder and it's very easy to push China as the enemy for Islam world.
> 
> I think the best and soft way is forcing each China Muslims to accept educations in Chinese School make sure most of young Muslims into normal University (not the religion school), and cut off religion relations with foreigns. This's China XinJing not some Islam Republic, force local Muslims learning in School and improve their living conditions, to end religious influence by using education and technology to replace religions in their mind from generations to generations.
> 
> China still need to watch carefully the West of China, at the same time still watch the North of some south Asia country. Chinese not fool and i had said it's a opened secret in China, we were watching local situations.



You already know the source of this ideology - a every year ordinary Muslims go to Haj, and there they are waiting -- see I understand your point, you think that I must mean doing things like US likes to do, with a big bang - some times a big bang is good, but the financiers do not need big bang, there are not thousands, they are a handful, and if even 5 die in their sleep, the message to the rest is as loud as big bang

The issue is how to separate ordinary Muslims from Islamists - obviously the Islamists seek recruits, they seek young and impressionable men and women, if these young and impressionable are not too smart all the better, and if they have problems in their lives, that's very good -- because the Islamist enemy have a solution to all problems in the world --- next the islamist enemy need to provide indoctrination, and in Pakistani experience, Saudi financed religious schools are where this indoctrination takes place -- when this phase is complete the islamist enemy has to choose who can be stupid enough (committed to the cause) to get training with the goal that they will die at the end of the mission.

The Islamist enemy is a small number but the ordinary Muslims are a large number, if we go against the ordinary muslims, we will help the Islamist enemy, we will make it easier for this enemy to point to us as the problem, so to my thinking, the effort of all those who would want a peaceful world, should be to gather maximum intelligence and then like a doctor go after only those cells that cause the disease -



itaskol said:


> we dont want our hands getting dirty.
> better lead them killing each other, or let other power to clean them.
> and get benifit form it.




Then ask your friend and ally, Pakistan to help you - I am Pakistanis and I AM TELLING YOU THE Islamist enemy has killed 49000 and our Army (I really don't know whose army it really is) depends on China - China can have a big influence - this can save your countrymen and it will save Pakistani lives too

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## jhungary

itaskol said:


> USA also took lot of uyguhrs refugee into USA. and gave them protection
> some of them are under National Endowment for Democracy



lol, you are now claiming immigration is a crime, if you don't want those people to move to the US and get protected. There are probably about 10 millions things you can do. But no, you blame us from taking them in. What a high road your country took.



hurt said:


> Xinjian Terrorists terrorist attacks from 1990.
> George Bush Meets Rebiya Kadeer in 2007



Do you have any evidence that meeting is discussion or supporting terrorism? For all you know, Bush could have talk to Rebiya about her favourite color lol

But blame US all you wanted, soon enough if you don't stop those people and keep on blaming the US, they will find out killing ethic Han Chinese work way better than terrorist in their own home, by then you will have nothing you can do about it but again blaming US for this misfortune LOL


----------



## hurt

Aeronaut said:


> PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.



I regret that bullshit from a Pakistani.

There are 20 Millions Muslims live in china.
Why 10 Millions Hui people never Terrorist attack.
Do you saw 10 Millions Uyghur Terrorist attack&#65311;

Never say that bullshit for a own 20 Millions Muslims Country.


When Terrorist attacks in Pakistan,Had We said bullshit that Government of Pakistan has an obligation to look after its citizens&#65311;



jhungary said:


> Do you have any evidence that meeting is discussion or supporting terrorism? For all you know, Bush could have talk to Rebiya about her favourite color lol
> 
> But blame US all you wanted, soon enough if you don't stop those people and keep on blaming the US, they will find out killing ethic Han Chinese work way better than terrorist in their own home, by then you will have nothing you can do about it but again blaming US for this misfortune LOL



If President of china to meet Osama bin Laden in 2007&#65292;they only talk about weather in meeting.
what do you think about it.

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## jhungary

hurt said:


> I regret that bullshit from a Pakistani.
> 
> There are 20 Millions Muslims live in china.
> Why 10 Millions Hui people never Terrorist attack.
> Do you saw 10 Millions Uyghur Terrorist attack&#65311;
> 
> Never say that bullshit for a own 20 Millions Muslims Country.
> 
> 
> 
> If President of china to meet Osama bin Laden in 2007&#65292;they only talk about weather in meeting.
> what do you think about it.



how do you know no such meeting ever happen??

LOL


----------



## anilindia

China is slowly settling Han chinese is that area. Now thay are 40 % of population. Slowly they will be majority and this problem will vanish.


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> how do you know no such meeting ever happen??
> 
> LOL



what do you think about it.


----------



## muse

If freedom of religion means freedom to bomb, to maim, to kill, to be insurrectionists, to wage war on humanity, then it is best that we have freedom from religion

This is what I mean when I say that very many no longer can distinguish between Islam and Islam-ism, between Islamist and Muslim -- the biggest loser from this deliberate confusion will be Islam and Muslims

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## jhungary

hurt said:


> what do you think about it.



I will think it's nice of the Chinese Leader to lure OBL out, and drone strike time

What happen in the meeting does not matter, what matter is he shows.


----------



## itaskol

jhungary said:


> lol, you are now claiming immigration is a crime, if you don't want those people to move to the US and get protected. There are probably about 10 millions things you can do. But no, you blame us from taking them in. What a high road your country took.



the Chechnya which is responsible for boston blast. was also under this "National Endowment for Democracy" project.
what a bulsht organisation is this "National Endowment for Democracy" which bring lot of dangerous poeple into your own country.


----------



## jhungary

anilindia said:


> China is slowly settling Han chinese is that area. Now thay are 40 % of population. Slowly they will be majority and this problem will vanish.



Actually it will make the matter worse. China don't really care for those terrorist now bcause all they killed is their own kind, if you resettle a large portion of Han in, then the terrorist will attack they Han instead of their own kind. Which make the situation worse to the Chinese Government.


----------



## hurt

anilindia said:


> China is slowly settling Han chinese is that area. Now thay are 40 % of population. Slowly they will be majority and this problem will vanish.



the root cause is Terrorist organizations--East Turkestan Islamic Movement.
Unrelated ethnic group.



jhungary said:


> Actually it will make the matter worse. China don't really care for those terrorist now bcause all they killed is their own kind, if you resettle a large portion of Han in, then the terrorist will attack they Han instead of their own kind. Which make the situation worse to the Chinese Government.



apartheid&#65311;


----------



## itaskol

jhungary said:


> I will think it's nice of the Chinese Leader to lure OBL out, and drone strike time
> 
> What happen in the meeting does not matter, what matter is he shows.



what happened in the meeting between George Bush Meets Rebiya Kadeer did not matter.
what matter were he and she showed same time.


----------



## jhungary

itaskol said:


> the Chechnya which is responsible for boston blast. was also under this "National Endowment for Democracy" project.
> what a bulsht organisation is this "National Endowment for Democracy" which bring lot of dangerous poeple into your own country.



lol, problem is never we allow them in, but it's their country responsibility to *NOT* allowing them out. They will find a way to US even if we don't allow them in. You can stop the water running by turning off the tape. But instead you blame the reservoir that catches these water.....That does not make sense to me.


----------



## cnleio

muse said:


> You already know the source of this ideology - a every year ordinary Muslims go to Haj, and there they are waiting -- see I understand your point, you think that I must mean doing things like US likes to do, with a big bang - some times a big bang is good, but the financiers do not need big bang, there are not thousands, they are a handful, and if even 5 die in their sleep, the message to the rest is as loud as big bang
> 
> The issue is how to separate ordinary Muslims from Islamists - obviously the Islamists seek recruits, they seek young and impressionable men and women, if these young and impressionable are not too smart all the better, and if they have problems in their lives, that's very good -- because the Islamist enemy have a solution to all problems in the world --- next the islamist enemy need to provide indoctrination, and in Pakistani experience, Saudi financed religious schools are where this indoctrination takes place -- when this phase is complete the islamist enemy has to choose who can be stupid enough (committed to the cause) to get training with the goal that they will die at the end of the mission.
> 
> The Islamist enemy is a small number but the ordinary Muslims are a large number, if we go against the ordinary muslims, we will help the Islamist enemy, we will make it easier for this enemy to point to us as the problem, so to my thinking, the effort of all those who would want a peaceful world, should be to gather maximum intelligence and then like a doctor go after only those cells that cause the disease -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then ask your friend and ally, Pakistan to help you - I am Pakistanis and I AM TELLING YOU THE Islamist enemy has killed 49000 and our Army (I really don't know whose army it really is) depends on China - China can have a big influence - this can save your countrymen and it will save Pakistani lives too


2x agree, U just point out to distinguish Islamist enemy from ordinary Muslims and punish them, at the same time could warn other guys. Yep that's one approach to the problem but i believe it's just temporary coz anytime Jihad or Islamist enemy all come from Muslims. 
In Chinese culture we can using "&#21516;&#21270;/assimilation" a huge and long project to complete the problem. Cut off the religious linkages and force local Uigur learining in Chinese School and Speaking Chinese, educations can get rid of religion influences. In XinJiang to educate their generations to become a Chinese not a Muslim. If necessary China PLA will military control her western border in case of other Muslim forces into the West.

China is a non-Muslim country, in her history we never give up to radical muslims. Between national security and religion influence, China chose his interests and no show mercy to the enemy.


P.S the network of XinJiang Jihad: Some Arab Gulf State and his religious school provided funds ---> Some America provide information ---> Some South Asia tribal armed provide training ---> Back way through Kashmir . 
Chinese all know it .


----------



## notsuperstitious

muse said:


> You already know the source of this ideology - a every year ordinary Muslims go to Haj, and there they are waiting -- see I understand your point, you think that I must mean doing things like US likes to do, with a big bang - some times a big bang is good, but the financiers do not need big bang, there are not thousands, they are a handful, and if even 5 die in their sleep, the message to the rest is as loud as big bang
> 
> The issue is how to separate ordinary Muslims from Islamists - obviously the Islamists seek recruits, they seek young and impressionable men and women, if these young and impressionable are not too smart all the better, and if they have problems in their lives, that's very good -- because the Islamist enemy have a solution to all problems in the world --- next the islamist enemy need to provide indoctrination, and in Pakistani experience, Saudi financed religious schools are where this indoctrination takes place -- when this phase is complete the islamist enemy has to choose who can be stupid enough (committed to the cause) to get training with the goal that they will die at the end of the mission.
> 
> The Islamist enemy is a small number but the ordinary Muslims are a large number, if we go against the ordinary muslims, we will help the Islamist enemy, we will make it easier for this enemy to point to us as the problem, so to my thinking, the effort of all those who would want a peaceful world, should be to gather maximum intelligence and then like a doctor go after only those cells that cause the disease -
> 
> Then ask your friend and ally, Pakistan to help you - I am Pakistanis and I AM TELLING YOU THE Islamist enemy has killed 49000 and our Army (I really don't know whose army it really is) depends on China - China can have a big influence - this can save your countrymen and it will save Pakistani lives too



Western media has recently covered many young people from europe fighting in syria. All of them suddenly became robots, left their families and seek death.

This is nothing but brainwashing, I mean religion is brainwashing anyway, but this is taking things to a new level. I'm frankly worried.


----------



## itaskol

jhungary said:


> lol, problem is never we allow them in, but it's their country responsibility to *NOT* allowing them out. They will find a way to US even if we don't allow them in. You can stop the water running by turning off the tape. But instead you blame the reservoir that catches these water.....That does not make sense to me.


why should we stop these kind of dangerous people. if they want out.
hope they all going to american.
but you should keep them forever. never send them back


----------



## muse

cnleio said:


> China is a non-Muslim country, in her history we never give up to radical muslims. Between national security and religion influence, China chose his interests and no show mercy to the enemy.



I really hope and wish that the same was true in Pakistan, but unfortunately this is not the case, maybe in Pakistan there will need to be very many more innocent people killed by the Islamist enemy before people learn that religion's purpose is to clean your soul and not to make religion a weapon against humanity.


----------



## jhungary

itaskol said:


> what happened in the meeting between George Bush Meets Rebiya Kadeer did not matter.
> what matter were he and she showed same time.



kill bush, I don't care, I don't like that dude too, but you won't do much. He died, another guy take his place, that guy died will have another guy take his place. Same situation with the so called "Uyghur Terrorist" her alone does not mean much, what she represent mean a lot to their brethren. You have to be stupid to kill her and make a martyr out of her


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> lol, problem is never we allow them in, but it's their country responsibility to *NOT* allowing them out. They will find a way to US even if we don't allow them in. You can stop the water running by turning off the tape. But instead you blame the reservoir that catches these water.....That does not make sense to me.



Nice.Allow Terrorist organizations in US for peace?


----------



## jhungary

itaskol said:


> why should we stop these kind of dangerous people. if they want out.
> hope they all going to american.
> but you should keep them forever. never send them back



Well, you say you don't care, but you blame us.

I am confused. If you don't care, then how can you blame the US taking them in, you said it yourselves, you want them all to go to the US..

THe moment you say you don't care, you lost the right to blame this on US, do you understand that?


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> kill bush, I don't care, I don't like that dude too, but you won't do much. He died, another guy take his place, that guy died will have another guy take his place. Same situation with the so called "Uyghur Terrorist" her alone does not mean much, what she represent mean a lot to their brethren. You have to be stupid to kill her and make a martyr out of her



Like you said ,we neednt law in world


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## jhungary

hurt said:


> Nice.Allow Terrorist organizations in US for peace?



Dude, we don't allow Terrorist in, but they will find a way in whether we let them in or not. 

You don't want US protect those terrorist, DON'T LET THEM LEAVE THE FIRST PLACE lol.

actually, I should stop saying anything, if China want the situation worse, be my guest, kill the terrorist and continue oppress the Muslim. Why arguing with someone on something that only benefit them and by arguing it actually do more damage on us??

Dude, you are just doing us a favor, shifting the attention of those extremist to you guys.

Thank you China


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> Well, you say you don't care, but you blame us.
> 
> I am confused. If you don't care, then how can you blame the US taking them in, you said it yourselves, you want them all to go to the US..
> 
> THe moment you say you don't care, you lost the right to blame this on US, do you understand that?


...............................


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## cnleio

The network of XinJiang Jihad: 

Some Arab Gulf State and his religious school provided funds ---> Some America country(join the dirty) provided related information ---> Some South Asia tribal force provided training (training camps in her lands)---> Back way to XinJiang through Kashmir . And some country crossing Asia and Europe provided moral supports.

Chinese all remember it ! This's China XinJiang not some "Blue Flag" Islamic Republic, and China not U.S our 99% PLA Army stay in the home.

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## itaskol

cnleio said:


> The network of XinJiang Jihad:
> 
> Some Arab Gulf State and his religious school provided funds ---> Some America country(join the dirty) provided related information ---> Some South Asia tribal force provided training (training camps in her lands)---> Back way to XinJiang through Kashmir . And some country crossing Asia and Europe provided moral supports.
> 
> Chinese all remember it !



actually we all know this already. but we keep it in our mind , dont need to speak it out.
we dont want get more attention of those extremist.
we have to find a way to lead these extremnist to americans. and let the USA and extremnist fighting and killing each other.


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## jhungary

hurt said:


> ...............................



lol 

Rebiya Kadeer was born in China
Rebiya Kadeer is a Chinese Citizens
Rebiya Kadeer was educated by China
Rebiya Kadeer served in the National People Congress
Rebiya Kadeer and her organisation bombed China

So, we lost the right to blame China, although they did provided this woman with EVERYTHING



itaskol said:


> actually we all know this already. but we keep it in our mind , dont need to speak it out.
> we dont want get more attention of those extremist.
> *we have to find a way to lead these extremnist to americans. and let the USA and extremnist fighting and killing each other.*



Easy, give US the Xinjiang LOL


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> lol
> 
> Rebiya Kadeer was born in China
> Rebiya Kadeer is a Chinese Citizens
> Rebiya Kadeer was educated by China
> Rebiya Kadeer served in the National People Congress
> Rebiya Kadeer and her organisation bombed China
> 
> So, we lost the right to blame China, although they did provided this women with EVERYTHING



Ok send her back,We Take Charge of us


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## itaskol

jhungary said:


> Easy, give US the Xinjiang LOL


no way.
but we can gift all of these dangerous people to you free of charge.


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## jhungary

hurt said:


> Ok send her back,We Take Charge of us



we don't have her lol, she was on exile, not staying in the United States. Can't give you something we don't have.



itaskol said:


> no way.
> but we can gift all of these dangerous people to you free of charge.



You don't know how politic work did you? When you are talking about all those people, they must come with a land. Or we will just settle them in Pakistan, and your struggle continue


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## xuxu1457

Back to the topic, why some terrorists kill themselves to start terrorist attacks??? Such as suicide attacks, Self-burning&#65292;Suicide plane as 911 attack, why?????


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> we don't have her lol, she was on exile, not staying in the United States. Can't give you something we don't have.



you should say that she was on exile in US


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## jhungary

hurt said:


> you should say that she was on exile in US



dude, she was in Plague 6 months ago......She does not stay in the US, you know the meaning of the word "Exile"?


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## hurt

jhungary said:


> dude, she was in Plague 6 months ago......She does not stay in the US, you know the meaning of the word "Exile"?



As I understand it means Free access US.

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## itaskol

xuxu1457 said:


> Back to the topic, why some terrorists kill themselves to start terrorist attacks??? Such as suicide attacks, Self-burning&#65292;Suicide plane as 911 attack, why?????


because they believed that they can see the 72 virgins

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## JSCh

Uyghur detainees at Guantanamo Bay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Ahiska

What they do is right because the chinese wants to make east turkestan an ethnic chinese region my people happened the same we were friendly to them what did they do took our land and are know the biggest group there the uigur must protect themselves from the chinese


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## muse

Ahiska said:


> What they do is right because the chinese wants to make east turkestan an ethnic chinese region my people happened the same we were friendly to them what did they do took our land and are know the biggest group there the uigur must protect themselves from the chinese




Nobody is going to support terrorism for any cause - All they did was kill Muslims and those whose duty it was to protect them
The world is full of conflicts and grievances but it's just plain stupid to come out here and say terrorism is right because you got screwed somewhere in time - it just goes to show how distant you are from humanity -- and that can't be the real you, can it?

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## hurt

Ahiska said:


> What they do is right because the chinese wants to make east turkestan an ethnic chinese region my people happened the same we were friendly to them what did they do took our land and are know the biggest group there the uigur must protect themselves from the chinese



Welcome join this Topic&#65292;Terrorist

If you think killed 10 Uyghur is right

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## cnleio

Ahiska said:


> What they do is right because the chinese wants to make east turkestan an ethnic chinese region my people happened the same we were friendly to them what did they do took our land and are know the biggest group there the uigur must protect themselves from the chinese


LOL, whole life living in the dark side of ur soul and heart ... coz ur guys believe killing innocent ppl whatever he is non-Muslims or Muslims helping the official is right ?


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## itaskol

muse said:


> Nobody is going to support terrorism for any cause - All they did was kill Muslims and those whose duty it was to protect them
> The world is full of conflicts and grievances but it's just plain stupid to come out here and say terrorism is right because you got screwed somewhere in time - it just goes to show how distant you are from humanity -- and that can't be the real you, can it?



I hope all pakistanis will have the same thought as you. then TTP will have no chance to survive.

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## hurt

Aeronaut said:


> PRC has an obligation to look after its citizens. If your own citizens are standing up against you, it means they are not getting what they deserve. It is in PRC's own long term interest to allow freedom of religion and reforms in the XinJiang region,carry out economic development and create job opportunities. If PRC chooses the right of oppression,and not allowing its citizens their due rights, it is contradicting its own history.



May I use it Explanate same thing in Pakistan&#65311;


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## muse

itaskol said:


> I hope all pakistanis will have the same thought as you. then TTP will have no chance to survive.



Sorry but that's not the case - as I told you very many Pakistanis are very very confused and very very angry about basic things


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## itaskol

muse said:


> Sorry but that's not the case - as I told you very many Pakistanis are very very confused and very very angry about basic things



it is hard to charge? just force all schools teach the pakistani children the same thing which is right.
and after several years. all pakistani will have same thought.

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## Shardul.....the lion

Rest in peace......

Hope ccp eradicates these terrorist scum completely

Rest in peace......

Hope ccp eradicates these terrorist scum completely

Rest in peace......

Hope ccp eradicates these terrorist scum completely

Rest in peace......

Hope ccp eradicates these terrorist scum completely

Rest in peace......

Hope ccp eradicates these terrorist scum completely

Rest in peace......

Hope ccp eradicates these terrorist scum completely


----------



## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> NO I JUST ASKED YOU TO NOT SOIL YOUR PANTS SCARED OF KIDDIES..
> ITS TRADITIONAL IN MANY AREAS OF THE WORLD TO TEACH CHILDREN GUNFIRE...
> THESE AREAS OF THE WORLD INCLUDE yOO eSS OF aAEY AND MANY CENTRAL ASIAN REGIONS.
> 
> OH THE CAPS..CANT BE ARSED TO TURN THEM OFF



Why on earth should one soil one's pants looking at some brainwashed Kids, Frizzie?
They can be shot dead as easily as any brainwashed Adult when they get down to their mischief.


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## drunken-monke

RIP the innocent souls...

Bloody $u(kers were again successful in killing innocent lives... It doesn't matter on which location the terrorist attack happened.. Most important was the loss of Human life...


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## AUz

itaskol said:


> one question
> according to the koran. can muslims be controlled by other people?



Yes. Muslims are suppose to obey the laws of the land they life in, until those laws are discriminatory or unjust.

Muslims must respect their rulers, even if they are non-Muslims but if rulers of the land oppress them, persecute them, then Muslims must resist this oppression or migrate from the land.

Hope I answered the question.

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## muse

itaskol said:


> it is hard to charge? just force all schools teach the pakistani children the same thing which is right.
> and after several years. all pakistani will have same thought.



They like violence, it's mother milk to them - but I will tell you the real reason it is hard to change -- see, if parents had choice, and most Pakistanis are poor, the concept of choice is an alien concept, but if they had a choice, like any parent, they would want to ave the best for their children, they would want their children to be a doctor or a engineer (two most popular professions for all Pakistanis) but the reality is that the Pakistan government is a government for only the elite Pakistanis, and Pakistani education is broken up into different kinds of education, if you are well to do, then private schools and a Western education, with Science and so on, then there are govt schools, where the govt pretends to pay the teachers and the teachers don't show up, and for the poorest, there are religious schools where meals are free --- this is the reality of Pakistan, for instance of the social boards you will see a thread about a Pakistani boy whose idea won a prize in Almaty - notice that the school the boy attended was Pak-Turk - in Turikye there is a religious group that thinks humanity isbest served by offering quality education to all - in Pakistan this is like a dream.

ill Pakistan spend more on education? in the upcoming election, one party has said that it would double the education budget, and that's a start.

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## itaskol

AUz said:


> Yes. Muslims are suppose to obey the laws of the land they life in, until those laws are discriminatory or unjust.
> 
> Muslims must respect their rulers, even if they are non-Muslims but if rulers of the land oppress them, persecute them, then Muslims must resist this oppression or migrate from the land.
> 
> Hope I answered the question.



thanks/

is it possible to make correction in the koran? had anyone did it in the past?


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## Capt.Popeye

muse said:


> They like violence, it's mother milk to them - but I will tell you the real reason it is hard to change -- see, if parents had choice, and most Pakistanis are poor, the concept of choice is an alien concept, but if they had a choice, like any parent, they would want to ave the best for their children, they would want their children to be a doctor or a engineer (two most popular professions for all Pakistanis) but the reality is that the Pakistan government is a government for only the elite Pakistanis, and Pakistani education is broken up into different kinds of education, if you are well to do, then private schools and a Western education, with Science and so on, then there are govt schools, where the govt pretends to pay the teachers and the teachers don't show up, and for the poorest, there are religious schools where meals are free --- this is the reality of Pakistan, for instance of the social boards you will see a thread about a Pakistani boy whose idea won a prize in Almaty - notice that the school the boy attended was Pak-Turk - in Turikye there is a religious group that thinks humanity isbest served by offering quality education to all - in Pakistan this is like a dream.
> 
> ill Pakistan spend more on education? in the upcoming election, one party has said that it would double the education budget, and that's a start.


 @muse;
You have struck at what seems to be the heart of the problem and what could also be used to find a solution. Education helps to find a clarity through the "fog" that "traditions" some times create. Then Education helps to create aspirations. That can be a big motivator for change.

One unusual motivator or creator of aspirations has been found to be TV or electronic media. One experiment that I've seen in my home country has found that Sat TV has created huge curiosity and aspirational changes in children. They see other children doing things or being part of a certain life-style that seems attractive. Then they ask: "Why can't I do that"?

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## q12093487q

Ahiska said:


> What they do is right because the chinese wants to make east turkestan an ethnic chinese region my people happened the same we were friendly to them what did they do took our land and are know the biggest group there the uigur must protect themselves from the chinese



You think they do is right?They have killed more turks&#65288;inclunding uyghur and kzakh&#65289; than han chinese in xinjiang recent years&#65292;some kazakhs and hui lost their ears in the 2009 Urumchi riot just becouse they looks like han chinese.Some uyghurs were killed too just becouse they were police or they helped chinese.


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## muse

That may take 20 to 3o years - so much precious time wasted - but even now, those who can want out, you are exactly right, they ask "why not for me and mine?" -- followed by the unresolved tension that they are some how unworthy, that they have sold out - and really 's because there is no tradition of critical examination, Pakistanis are no good with ideas, they are all over ideologies, however.


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## AUz

itaskol said:


> thanks/
> 
> is it possible to make correction in the koran? had anyone did it in the past?



Correction? You make corrections to mistakes. In Islam, Qur'an is the perfect book of God. Last message of almighty to the human race..

You can have different _interpretations _of Qur'an though...

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## itaskol

AUz said:


> Correction? You make corrections to mistakes. In Islam, Qur'an is the perfect book of God. Last message of almighty to the human race..
> 
> You can have different _interpretations _of Qur'an though...



ok.. I respect your explanation.
but how to find out which _interpretations _of Qur'an are right


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## BeyondHeretic

i'm sorry , but noone cares chinese lives aren't so important these days , like they used to be , back then


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## drunken-monke

Cheetah786 said:


> Indeed and the fact supports my statement shiv Sena and BJP are well known Hindu terrorist. Fiction only Muslims are terrorist there is countless non Muslim terrorist since this isn't the topic i would leave it at that.



For your information purpose, it was this your so called BJP and Shivsena led Government had Lahore summit with Pakistani Govt and after which you gave Kargil, after Agra Summit where This BJP lead govt wanted peace with Pakistan and some of your so called non state actors done Terrorist attacks... 

Who are the terrorist, the one who want peace or the one who dirupts the peace..


----------



## itaskol

BeyondHeretic said:


> i'm sorry , but noone cares chinese lives aren't so important these days , like they used to be , back then


far more important than your lives


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## BeyondHeretic

itaskol said:


> far more important than your lives



hahaha..............


----------



## Areesh

samantk said:


> Given the good realtions with Pakistan, I thought Pakistan would atleast put a leash on such elements gunning against China.





samantk said:


> Tumhari aukat yeh hai ki links bhi nahi padhte
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





Hindustani said:


> You'd be surprised where these terrorists are funded from.
> *
> *
> 
> East Turkestan Islamic Movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





samantk said:


> Possible, but I'll not ask for proofs because there is none.
> 
> However, the origin points to Pakistan and that's bad for Pakistan.





nick_indian said:


> Why is Pakistan harbouring terrorists from China ?





INDIC said:


> China never blamed India but blamed Pakistan in the past.
> 
> 
> Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists &#8211; The Express Tribune
> http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/02/world/asia/02china.html?_r=0
> Report: China concerned about Uyghur rebels operating in Pakistan by Zia Ur Rehman





Hindustani said:


> You mean for China? Beats me, they still haven't banned it as a terrorist organization.





Cherokee said:


> ETIM is Trained and Equipped in Pakistan .
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/247927-kids-filmed-firing-heavy-arsenal-terror-training-camp-pakistan.html
> 
> Watch how they treat Kids .





Cherokee said:


> Yep . Its Killing Two birds with One stone . Attacking Afghanistan and When Situation permits Xinjiang .
> 
> China is concerned and Pakistan has assured actions against these groups
> 
> Growing Concern in China Over Role of Militant Group East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM) in Xinjiang and Its Hideouts In Pakistan





Bobby said:


> Till US did not become victim of terrorism...US did not bother about it....Same goes with China...let them have some....



Sorry kids. But all your whining and trolling won't change a few facts. Let me quote some of them.

1 China would keep intruding in your territory despite you don't support terrorism in their country and you would keep holding useless flag meetings with them.

2 Pakistan would still remain China's biggest ally with China being the biggest provider of military equipment for Pakistan. Not to forget projects in AJK/GB and Gawadar.

You can keep whining and trolling. China and Pakistan have their eyes on something above your 4 aanai ki auqaat.

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## Hindustani

Areesh said:


> Sorry kids. But all your whining and trolling won't change a few facts. Let me quote some of them.
> 
> 1 China would keep intruding in your territory despite you don't support terrorism in their country and you would keep holding useless flag meetings with them.
> 
> 2 Pakistan would still remain China's biggest ally with China being the biggest provider of military equipment for Pakistan. Not to forget projects in AJK/GB and Gawadar.
> 
> You can keep whining and trolling. China and Pakistan have their eyes on something above your 4 aanai ki auqaat.




The fact still remains that your country is STILL the biggest exporter of terrorism. Higher than the mountain, deeper than the ocean relations or not. The East Turkistan Islamic Movement is funded in your own country.


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## SamantK

Areesh said:


> Sorry kids. But all your whining and trolling won't change a few facts. Let me quote some of them.
> 
> 1 China would keep intruding in your territory despite you don't support terrorism in their country and you would keep holding useless flag meetings with them.


This thread is not about India, you can whine on the others present and FYI we do not support terrorism even in Pakistan 



> 2 *Pakistan would still remain China's biggest ally *with China being the biggest provider of military equipment for Pakistan. Not to forget projects in AJK/GB and Gawadar.



You got it the other way, *China will* be Pakistan's biggest ally.. even that is in doubts given the terrorism emanating from your backyard 


> You can keep whining and trolling. China and Pakistan have their eyes on something *above* your 4 aanai ki auqaat.


Why not below, deeper than oceans, no?


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## ephone

Apparently, you know nothing about China.

We just called them differently such as: extremists, separatists and etc.

We had them for hundreds of years. 

Well, the solution is always the same no matter CCP or the past emperors: using greater terror against those terrorists. 



theone-neo said:


> this is something new!!!!!! china have terrorist????? holly **** !!! give thm **********

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## ephone

It depends how you interpret "Oppress".

China does not allow her muslims to marry four women, your quran does.
China strictly forbid school age children from going to religious school, your quran does not. 
China have restricted muslim practices in public offices government and many places, your quran does not. 

In addition, China protects women and seriously punished those who abuse women. 

Do you call that "Oppress"???

By the way, there are many other rules that I just could not list them one by one...



AUz said:


> Control your Muslims...don't oppress them.
> 
> Give them economic opportunities, curb down the discrimination against them, educate them, give them more religious freedom, make sure they aren't being taught extremism etc etc..all this is good form of 'controlling your masses'...
> 
> Oppression will only give rise to extremism...



Most people here hate those islam terrorists.

In addition, we think U.S. indeed has such a double standard that it will eventually hurt U.S. quite lot.

Very simple, if those terrorists hurt other countries, U.S. likely call them freedom fighters.
If those terrorists hurt U.S., suddenly they are terrorists.

You think those islam terrorists operating outside U.S. , e.g. those from north africa, somalia, xinjiang, chechnya, and etc like U.S.???

I think a lot of those intelligence analysts in U.S. must be brain-dead to believe that.



jhungary said:


> I found it funny on some member's comment here
> 
> When China got Jihaded, it's the American faults
> When America got Jihaded, it's the American faults
> When Russia got Jihaded, it's, you guess it, American faults again
> 
> Do we need to invade Tibet, Xinjian and Chechen to right our wrong? Say the word, we're there
> 
> RIP to the victim


----------



## Safriz

Capt.Popeye said:


> Why on earth should one soil one's pants looking at some brainwashed Kids, Frizzie?
> They can be shot dead as easily as any brainwashed Adult when they get down to their mischief.


You are a a monster if you have murderous intent for children.

and a brainwashed terrorist

Terrorism isnt only a Muslim mindset...its two way highway..You infidels have much more murderous intents towards Muslims

What will you say if somebody like you gets murderous intent for these children just because they are firing guns?

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## northeast

BeyondHeretic said:


> i'm sorry , but noone cares chinese lives aren't so important these days , like they used to be , back then


How many times have your dear persia been conquered by turks&#65311;And now you act like a terrorist sympathizer&#65311;be thankful to great china,if we don't buy your oil&#65292;you'll be as poor as North Korean and indian.


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## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> You are a a monster if you have murderous intent for children.
> 
> and a brainwashed terrorist
> 
> Terrorism isnt only a Muslim mindset...its two way highway..You infidels have much more murderous intents towards Muslims



No human being wielding a gun and not hesitating to use it on another human being can be immune from the consequences of that act of terrorism; be it an adult or child, man or woman. Without exception. So you are being foolish to seek refuge behind the diapers of children or the skirts of women if try to.

Now since the grounds for action are clear; the methods to be used are as clear to deal with such acts of Terrorism. Any and all means available; guns, missiles, drones, flame-throwers-the works. Without exception. 

The principle is clear: you choose to do it, get ready to get roasted for it.

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## Safriz

Capt.Popeye said:


> No human being wielding a gun and not hesitating to use it on another human being can be immune from the consequences of that act of terrorism; be it an adult or child, man or woman. Without exception. So you are being foolish to seek refuge behind the diapers of children or the skirts of women if try to.
> 
> Now since the grounds for action are clear; the methods to be used are as clear to deal with such acts of Terrorism. Any and all means available; guns, missiles, drones, flame-throwers-the works. Without exception.
> 
> The principle is clear: you choose to do it, get ready to get roasted for it.



A child firing gun..doesn't necessarily wants to kill you...
Just by watching a video of some children firing gun,if you are having murderous intent towards them,you can gauge your monstrosity.
Children firing guns dont make them terrorists by default.
This mentality of yours shows how much grudge you lot have against Muslims...You get murderous intent against us just by seeing our facial hair and cap.

Btw..if you kill them and later their parents come round and pull your guts out,they will be called terrorists,although that will be parental instinct and that needs no religion.

I agree,self defense is another thing,if anybody gets attacked,they defend themselves.
But planning to kill some kids just by watching their video is just vile.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ephone said:


> It depends how you interpret "Oppress".
> 
> China does not allow her muslims to marry four women, your quran does.
> China strictly forbid school age children from going to religious school, your quran does not.
> China have restricted muslim practices in public offices government and many places, your quran does not.
> 
> In addition, China protects women and seriously punished those who abuse women.
> 
> Do you call that "Oppress"???
> 
> By the way, there are many other rules that I just could not list them one by one...



I asked some Muslim members here like KingMamba, and he said that according to the Koran, any "restrictions" on their rightful Islamic activities means that they MUST fight back.

And since there are restrictions on religious activities in Xinjiang, we have to watch out for more attacks.

The stated goal of ETIM is to create an "Islamic state" in Xinjiang called East Turkestan, obviously we cannot allow them to do that. So there is no way to appease them.

Any extremists or terrorists need to be wiped out.

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## ChinaToday

BeyondHeretic said:


> i'm sorry , but noone cares chinese lives aren't so important these days , like they used to be , back then



with post like this make siding with usa and israel against iran a very attractive option for china


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## Safriz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I asked some Muslim members here like KingMamba, and he said that according to the Koran, any "restrictions" on their rightful Islamic activities means that they MUST fight back.
> 
> And since there are restrictions on religious activities in Xinjiang, we have to watch out for more attacks.
> 
> The stated goal of ETIM is to create an "Islamic state" in Xinjiang called East Turkestan, obviously we cannot allow them to do that. So there is no way to appease them.



I was in Guangzhou in 1997.There i went to "Abi waqas" mosque for Friday prayers.The mood in the mosque was tense,and the imam was very worried.
he wont let anybody even walk fast in the mosque..when asked he said that there are government agents in the mosque spying on us all the time and anything can get me in trouble.I asked him why he was being extra careful? He said that there has been a grand operation in some Muslim majority area of china in which army has crushed people under tanks and set their homes on fire. Reason was that Muslims of the area held protests against some new law the communist party imposed on their area...And along came the red army crushing them with brute force and no mercy.

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## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> A child firing gun..doesn't necessarily wants to kill you...
> Just by watching a video of some children firing gun,if you are having murderous intent towards them,you can gauge your monstrosity.
> Children firing guns dont make them terrorists by default.
> This mentality of yours shows how much grudge you lot have against Muslims...You get murderous intent against us just by seeing our facial hair and cap.
> 
> Btw..if you kill them and later their parents come round and pull your guts out,they will be called terrorists,although that will be parental instinct and that needs no religion.
> 
> I agree,self defense is another thing,if anybody gets attacked,they defend themselves.
> But planning to kill some kids just by watching their video is just vile.



Why do you choose to live in some peculiar world; where you only see Muslims and Infidels? Not once have I referred to Muslims; you are just dragging them in by the scruff of their beards. The world can be seen without using a religious prism.
And you have'nt even been able to understand what I said in my post:



> *No human being wielding a gun and not hesitating to use it on another human being can be immune from the consequences of that act of terrorism; be it an adult or child, man or woman. Without exception. So you are being foolish to seek refuge behind the diapers of children or the skirts of women if try to.
> 
> Now since the grounds for action are clear; the methods to be used are as clear to deal with such acts of Terrorism. Any and all means available; guns, missiles, drones, flame-throwers-the works. Without exception.
> 
> The principle is clear: you choose to do it, get ready to get roasted for it*.



Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ead-6-terrorists-killed-22.html#ixzz2RUFZ1Gvc

Do you need more explanation or are you just looking to show your affliction of a "victim syndrome"?


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## Safriz

Capt.Popeye said:


> Why do you choose to live in some peculiar world; where you only see Muslims and Infidels? Not once have I referred to Muslims; you are just dragging them in by the scruff of their beards. The world can be seen without using a religious prism.
> And you have'nt even been able to understand what I said in my post:
> 
> 
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ead-6-terrorists-killed-22.html#ixzz2RUFZ1Gvc
> 
> Do you need more explanation or are you just looking to show your affliction of a "victim syndrome"?



Good..thats a sensible post..
Finally some sense...


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## Capt.Popeye

Safriz said:


> Good..thats a sensible post..
> Finally some sense...



No Frizzie, You seem to have finally woken up from your self-created "victim syndrome" then! Is that the re-awakening of "sense" on your part? 
You did not even bother to read my posts; leave alone understanding the content, before rushing head-long to react with some half-sensible reactions. Apart from dragging in Muslims for no rhyme or reason!

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## Chinese-Dragon

Safriz said:


> I was in Guangzhou in 1997.There i went to "Abi waqas" mosque for Friday prayers.The mood in the mosque was tense,and the imam was very worried.
> he wont let anybody even walk fast in the mosque..when asked he said that there are government agents in the mosque spying on us all the time and anything can get me in trouble.I asked him why he was being extra careful? He said that there has been a grand operation in some Muslim majority area of china in which army has crushed people under tanks and set their homes on fire. Reason was that Muslims of the area held protests against some new law the communist party imposed on their area...And along came the red army crushing them with brute force and no mercy.



So do you think they are justified in fighting against China?

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## Safriz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> So do you think they are justified in fighting against China?



and you think crushing them under tanks is justified?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Safriz said:


> and you think crushing them under tanks is justified?



That never happened.

Do you have any sources? Or it it just hearsay?

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## Safriz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> *I've never heard of that.*



exactly..

you Chinese don't know most of the things happening in your country..only the little info your communist party allows you to know..
My memoir is from 1997,and i asked the same thing to the imam and he said exactly the same as i am saying to you...In china news is heavily controlled and censored.

The news was also confirmed independently by a bunch of Chinese Muslims i met at a halal restaurant i went in Guangzou (cheeky bugger served me soup with chop sticks,and i didn't have a clue how to have soup with chop stick)

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## rcrmj

Safriz said:


> and you think crushing them under tanks is justified?



terriosts are more than deserved```

besides these kind of making-up stories i heard a lot while living in London``always 'heard from A,B,C or A,B,C said heard from X,Y,Z', the plot is getting too boring now

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## Safriz

rcrmj said:


> terriosts are more than deserved```
> 
> besides these kind of making-up stories i heard a lot while living in London``always 'heard from A,B,C or A,B,C said heard from X,Y,Z', the plot is getting too boring now



So you are claiming that Chinese media is uncensored and you are told the truth all the time?

Plus they are "terrorists" now.
But back then,they were only protesting about something and were crushed with "Iron fist" or Iron chains.

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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> I was in Guangzhou in 1997.There i went to "Abi waqas" mosque for Friday prayers.The mood in the mosque was tense,and the imam was very worried.
> he wont let anybody even walk fast in the mosque..when asked he said that there are government agents in the mosque spying on us all the time and anything can get me in trouble.I asked him why he was being extra careful? He said that there has been a grand operation in some Muslim majority area of china in which army has crushed people under tanks and set their homes on fire. Reason was that Muslims of the area held protests against some new law the communist party imposed on their area...And along came the red army crushing them with brute force and no mercy.


\
Seems like a good idea for all the extremists!


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## Safriz

samantk said:


> \
> Seems like a good idea for all the extremists!



i don't know why every little Indian feels the urge to poke their nose without knowing jackshit about the topic at hand.
Retaliation is human nature.Its the way the retaliation is done,makes it justified or unjustified.
But there is always reasons behind it.Nobody just picks up a gun and starts firing,there is always an ongoing reason behind the action.

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## DV RULES

RIP

We are with China to fight against this global agenda pushed by devils of the world.
All you people should understand that this is just a start as Xinjiang gradually came into focus, mean while Boston tragedy couldn't be ruled out having any link to this if we put geopolitical scenarios on the table. In coming decades war will be shifted to CIS countries & to China as well.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/242643-xinjiang-focus-us-foreign-policy.html

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## itaskol

Safriz said:


> exactly..
> 
> you Chinese don't know most of the things happening in your country..only the little info your communist party allows you to know..
> My memoir is from 1997,and i asked the same thing to the imam and he said exactly the same as i am saying to you...In china news is heavily controlled and censored.
> 
> The news was also confirmed independently by a bunch of Chinese Muslims i met at a halal restaurant i went in Guangzou (cheeky bugger served me soup with chop sticks,and i didn't have a clue how to have soup with chop stick)


I was in Germany at that time. and heard lot of these kind of bulsht stories. I believe, even it was true, we did the right thing.


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## ChinaToday

Safriz said:


> I was in Guangzhou in 1997.There i went to "Abi waqas" mosque for Friday prayers.The mood in the mosque was tense,and the imam was very worried.
> he wont let anybody even walk fast in the mosque..when asked he said that there are government agents in the mosque spying on us all the time and anything can get me in trouble.I asked him why he was being extra careful? He said that there has been a grand operation in some Muslim majority area of china in which army has crushed people under tanks and set their homes on fire. Reason was that Muslims of the area held protests against some new law the communist party imposed on their area...And along came the red army crushing them with brute force and no mercy.



very credible the whole story base on my friends told me


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## SamantK

Safriz said:


> i don't know why every little Indian feels the urge to poke their nose without knowing jackshit about the topic at hand.
> Retaliation is human nature.Its the way the retaliation is done,makes it justified or unjustified.
> But there is always reasons behind it.Nobody just picks up a gun and starts firing,there is always an ongoing reason behind the action.




Extremists retaliate by killing innocent, it maybe human nature but so are so many other things - does not mean you do it!



ChinaToday said:


> very credible the whole story base on my friends told me



Of course it has to be credible, inside scoop if you know what I mean

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## Safriz

itaskol said:


> I believe, even it was true, we did the right thing.



Running tanks on protesting crowd seems right to you,but the people who saw this happening to their friend and family might not agree with you,and hence the retaliation.
It happened to Muslims of china so they are retaliating..If it had happened to any other community,they too had retaliated..Now you can go on calling them terrorists and me as terrorists supporter

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## rcrmj

Safriz said:


> exactly..
> 
> you Chinese don't know most of the things happening in your country..only the little info your communist party allows you to know..
> My memoir is from 1997,and i asked the same thing to the imam and he said exactly the same as i am saying to you...In china news is heavily controlled and censored.
> 
> The news was also confirmed independently by a bunch of Chinese Muslims i met at a halal restaurant i went in Guangzou (cheeky bugger served me soup with chop sticks,and i didn't have a clue how to have soup with chop stick)



always funny to hear this classic layman's argument of *you chinese dont know many things that we 'know'*, can you people even have the basic line of commen logic?

If the Chinese didnt know, then how d hell do foreigners know? 

I actually fell for this kind of stupid stereotype before I came to the U.K 12 years ago```as I always heard from others (from multi medias like Voice of America, BBC and relatives from Taiwan) saying that we 'dont know' many things about the 'dark side'of China```

so I had this curiosity coming to the U.K trying to find out what *we actually didnt 'know'*````but disappointingly what I found out was that all the China-bashing-frenzy materials kept recycling in western media were too familar```and I actually knew way more than they have, I'd make some serious contribution to add few 'third-party sources'``

in 'theory' I am supposed to be 'brainwashed' as I was born and bred in China until 20s```but why I know so many 'dirty' stuff about my 'censored' and 'controlled' country??? ``can you tell me why???

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## scobydoo

I think its the right time to test Wing Loong uav to hunt them down


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## rcrmj

Safriz said:


> So you are claiming that Chinese media is uncensored and you are told the truth all the time?
> 
> Plus they are "terrorists" now.
> But back then,they were only protesting about something and were crushed with "Iron fist" or Iron chains.



keep assuming that makes your argument even more 'creditble'

to your stereotyped and ignorant mind Chinese media=state media```but in reality only few people reading those shyte, and do you know where do most people read news from? 

keep assuming, you will get there

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## cnleio

Safriz said:


> exactly..
> 
> you Chinese don't know most of the things happening in your country..only the little info your communist party allows you to know..
> My memoir is from 1997,and i asked the same thing to the imam and he said exactly the same as i am saying to you...In china news is heavily controlled and censored.
> 
> The news was also confirmed independently by a bunch of Chinese Muslims i met at a halal restaurant i went in Guangzou (cheeky bugger served me soup with chop sticks,and i didn't have a clue how to have soup with chop stick)


First they r Chinese, then they r Chinese Muslim. Whatever u r Muslim or non-Muslim here, u must (have to) obey China laws, there'r no any privilege for some special groups of ppl. Take ur regilous ideas out from China coz we r a non-Muslim China not ur poor country.

If push the China to the other side, maybe the Allah could save u.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Safriz said:


> He said that there has been a grand operation in some Muslim majority area of china in which army has crushed people under tanks and set their homes on fire. Reason was that Muslims of the area held protests against some new law the communist party imposed on their area...And along came the red army crushing them with brute force and no mercy.





Safriz said:


> and you think crushing them under tanks is justified?



Still no sources for this ridiculous claim?

If there was even 1% truth in this claim, don't you think our enemies in the West would print it in their newspapers right away?


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## Safriz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Still no sources for this ridiculous claim?
> 
> If there was even 1% truth in this claim, don't you think our enemies in the West would print it in their newspapers right away?




Google is your friend..
But if you insist,here is one,and there are many you can find.

ARCHIVED: Commentary No. 73: Islamic Unrest In the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region

Abstract: Beijing's central authority has been under increasing challenge from Muslim separatists in the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region of western China in recent years. Although less well known than the anti-Chinese struggle in Tibet, the low-key conflict which has been simmering in Xinjiang since the late 1980s has resulted in significant loss of life and reliably documented human rights violations. *In April 1990, for example, Chinese government forces reportedly killed some 50 protestors* in putting down a five-day uprising by religious extremists in the Baren district south of Kashgar. - Spring 1998. Author: Paul George.

and this was not an isolated incident..Chinese forces have been killing en mass in the area...

since 1980s

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## q12093487q

Safriz said:


> Running tanks on protesting crowd seems right to you,but the people who saw this happening to their friend and family might not agree with you,and hence the retaliation.
> It happened to Muslims of china so they are retaliating..If it had happened to any other community,they too had retaliated..Now you can go on calling them terrorists and me as terrorists supporter



Still cant explain why they kill other muslims like Hui,Kazakh or even uyghur themselves


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## Safriz

q12093487q said:


> Still can&#8217;t explain why they kill other muslims like Hui,Kazakh or even uyghur themselves



I cant explain that and wont.
But needless to say that Chinese forces are also to be blamed and their heavy handed tactics.
If china wants to go the way USA went,then good luck its been 20 years since they been fighting their WOT and they achieved nothing.
China can try brute force as they been doing since 1980s,but that wont solve the issue.
Giving more religious rights and more freedom and economic reforms will win hearts and minds and isolate the miscreants.

I don't know about now,but back in 90s when i was a regular visitor to china,the Muslims were p.iss poor,normally found selling stuff by roadside in big Chinese cities.

make people rich and they will forget their grievances even religious ones. Thats human nature..But hungry man is always an angry man..religious or otherwise.

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## ephone

To be honest, you think CCP give a fxxk to what those islam terrorists think???

I would like CCP to get another iron fist guy like general wang zhen appointed there, who basically eradicated the islam separatists for many years since basically he has massacred all of those nutcases then.

Now looking at those islam nutcases keeping jumping out like clowns, we need put them down quickly with powerful demonstration. 



Chinese-Dragon said:


> I asked some Muslim members here like KingMamba, and he said that according to the Koran, any "restrictions" on their rightful Islamic activities means that they MUST fight back.
> 
> And since there are restrictions on religious activities in Xinjiang, we have to watch out for more attacks.
> 
> The stated goal of ETIM is to create an "Islamic state" in Xinjiang called East Turkestan, obviously we cannot allow them to do that. So there is no way to appease them.
> 
> Any extremists or terrorists need to be wiped out.

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## queerbait

Cheetah786 said:


> Indeed and the fact supports my statement shiv Sena and BJP are well known Hindu terrorist. Fiction only Muslims are terrorist there is countless non Muslim terrorist since this isn't the topic i would leave it at that.


 Can you please define how BJP and Shiv Sena are terrorist....and don't start with godhra..it was an administrative incompetency???I would suggest you read the defination of terrorism.


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## Chinese-Dragon

ephone said:


> To be honest, you think CCP give a fxxk to what those islam terrorists think???
> 
> I would like CCP to get another iron fist guy like general wang zhen appointed there, who basically eradicated the islam separatists for many years since basically he has massacred all of those nutcases then.
> 
> Now looking at those islam nutcases keeping jumping out like clowns, we need put them down quickly with powerful demonstration.



Agreed. 

The Government needs to crack down on these extremists, a bullet for each one.



Safriz said:


> Google is your friend..
> But if you insist,here is one,and there are many you can find.



I said is there any source for Muslims in China being crushed under tanks, as you claimed?


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## aakash_2410

It took America 9/11 and Europe 7/7 London bombings to understand what the rest of the world (India, Israel, Russia) was saying for decades. I truly hope China doesn't need any incident to wake up. Chinese are smart, but they should be careful. Confucius had always maintained the society should be obedient. 

I know every religion is rogue and blah blah blah! But why do 99.9% of terrorists hail from one single religion? They have forced, generally peaceful Hindus/Sikhs to pick up arms. Giving this example I may be biased but heck they have even forced Buddhists (World's most peaceful religion) to take up arms. There must be something ey?


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## jiddi jaat

This is reaction to China actively oppressing muslim brothers in Xingjiang


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## Safriz

ephone said:


> To be honest, you think CCP give a fxxk to what those islam terrorists think???
> 
> I would like CCP to get another iron fist guy like general wang zhen appointed there, who basically eradicated the islam separatists for many years since basically he has massacred all of those nutcases then.
> 
> Now looking at those islam nutcases keeping jumping out like clowns, we need put them down quickly with powerful demonstration.



Noit giving a fuk is a two way road..If CCP doesnt give a fuk about their people..no wonder the forgotten uncared for people also give a fuk about CCP authority.

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## ephone

heavy handed tactics???

You have not seen that yet. 

If you called our CCP's current soft-handing "heavy handed tactics", what will you call our CCP's general wang zhen's iron fist rule there??? 

We will never be like USA and those islam terrorists will never be able to do anything in China since our news will completely shut them down if they dare to try anything big. They will get CCP's bloody revenge on all of those islam nutcases there. Trust me, it won't be pretty. We China will not give those islam nutcases a stage like CNN, or whatever US news channels here, obsessing with those boston terrorists day in and day out. If such thing happens in China, we will shut them down.

Years ago, general wang zhen basically massacred all of those nutcases then. CCP won't be afraid to do it all over again if those islam nutcases do not know how to behave. 

BTW, trust me, brute force is the most effective way to solve the problem. The worst way to solve it is the western way. 

Giving those terrorists trials, appeals, jail sentences and etc??? 

Are you kidding me?

China is still a poor country and we won't waste money on those islam terrorists. We will give them each a bullet and their family need pay for that cost of the bullet. 

We will make their lives and their family's lives so tough that they would rather go to hell than challenging China government. 

Don't believe CCP can be that tough, well, how about you keep trying???



Safriz said:


> I cant explain that and wont.
> But needless to say that Chinese forces are also to be blamed and their heavy handed tactics.
> If china wants to go the way USA went,then good luck its been 20 years since they been fighting their WOT and they achieved nothing.
> China can try brute force as they been doing since 1980s,but that wont solve the issue.
> Giving more religious rights and more freedom and economic reforms will win hearts and minds and isolate the miscreants.

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## Safriz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I said is there any source for Muslims in China being crushed under tanks, as you claimed?


i posted one already but apperantly you are ignoring it...typical



ephone said:


> heavy handed tactics???
> 
> You have not seen that yet.
> 
> If you called our CCP's current soft-handing "heavy handed tactics", what will you call our CCP's general wang zhen's iron fist rule there???
> 
> We will never be like USA and those islam terrorists will never be able to do anything in China since our news will completely shut them down if they dare to try anything big. They will get CCP's bloody revenge on all of those islam nutcases there. Trust me, it won't be pretty. We China will not give those islam nutcases a stage like CNN, or whatever US news channels here, obsessing with those boston terrorists day in and day out. If such thing happens in China, we will shut them down.
> 
> Years ago, general wang zhen basically massacred all of those nutcases then. CCP won't be afraid to do it all over again if those islam nutcases do not know how to behave.
> 
> BTW, trust me, brute force is the most effective way to solve the problem. The worst way to solve it is the western way.
> 
> Giving those terrorists trials, appeals, jail sentences and etc???
> 
> Are you kidding me?
> 
> China is still a poor country and we won't waste money on those islam terrorists. We will give them each a bullet and their family need pay for that cost of the bullet.
> 
> We will make their lives and their family's live so tough that they would rather go to hell than challenging China government.
> 
> Don't believe CCP can be that tough, well, how about you keep trying???



Communist mind is as much radicalised as any Muslim Terrorist mind,hence your support for violence.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Safriz said:


> Noit giving a fuk is a two way road..If CCP doesnt give a fuk about their people..no wonder the forgotten uncared for people also give a fuk about CCP authority.



We don't give a f*ck about terrorists and extremists, they deserve nothing more than a bullet each.

Haven't you seen how terrorists and extremists have destroyed your country and economy? Bring heavy handed is far better than letting terrorists run wild.


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## ephone

You seem to confuse between terrorists and normal people.

CCP won't give a fxxk to those islam terrorists. I hope you start to type after you see what is written carefully.



Safriz said:


> Noit giving a fuk is a two way road..If CCP doesnt give a fuk about their people..no wonder the forgotten uncared for people also give a fuk about CCP authority.



For any actions against those islam terrorists, we do not call that violence but justice taken.

Well, we can use whatever weapons we have, tanks, machine guns, grenades, flamethrower or whatever...



Safriz said:


> i posted one already but apperantly you are ignoring it...typical
> 
> 
> 
> Communist mind is as much radicalised as any Muslim Terrorist mind,hence your support for violence.

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## DV RULES

21 killed in Uighur clashes in China

Clashes in China's western region of Xinjiang have left 21 people dead, including police officers and social workers.

According to Chinese media, the conflict started when government officials noticed a group of ethnic Uighurs carrying knives.

After reporting the group to police, they are said to have been taken hostage.

Police, along with other government functionaries then arrived at the house close to the city of Kashgar.

Details of what happened next are unclear but there was a violent clash in which more local Uighurs joined in and opposed the police.

Fifteen of those killed were either police or social workers and six were members of China's Uighur ethnic minority.

Eight people were arrested. A provincial government official said these people were Uighurs but did not confirm their identity.

Media reports said an investigation showed the gang members had been plotting to carry out "terrorist activities", and branded the fighting a "violent terror incident".

Xinjiang is home to around nine million ethnic Uighurs, many of whom complain of religious and cultural repression by Chinese authorities.

China has repeatedly accused ethnic Uighurs of carrying out terrorist activities in the province, where 20 men were jailed in March on terrorism charges.

Riots between Uighurs and members of China's Han ethnic majority in Xinjiang's capital Urumqi in 2009 killed around 200 people, leading the ruling Communist Party to tighten surveillance and boost investment in the region.

According to official figures, 46 per cent of Xinjiang's population is Uighur, while 39 per cent are Han Chinese.


21 killed in Uighur clashes in China > Strategic-Culture.org - Strategic Culture Foundation


----------



## ephone

BTW, you need quote the words carefully from the source.

whatever we crushed, those are "muslim terrorists" or "islam terrorists", or "islam nutcases", or "islam extremists", or "muslim separatists" or similar

We do not crush normal muslims who behave well under our China laws. Even though we restrict many practices of muslim religion, for those who are well-behaved Chinese muslim citizens, we welcome them. 

Do not forget the extra word "terrorists", "separatists" and "extremists" those other authors indicate!

BTW, you are indeed right. Chinese are way more radical when we deal with islam terrorists. During Qing Dynasty, to deal with those Hui muslim riots, Qing's emperor sent generals to basically WIPE OUT the muslim population in several provinces in Northwest China ... Some of those leftovers had to escape into russia and hid there even today.

The only Hui muslim population we spared were those who did not join in the riots and with the government then. 

That is another reason why Hui muslims do not join in those uighur terrorists today even though they are both muslims. They have learnt the bloody lessons the harshest way.



Safriz said:


> i posted one already but apperantly you are ignoring it...typical
> 
> 
> 
> Communist mind is as much radicalised as any Muslim Terrorist mind,hence your support for violence.


----------



## SpArK

*The art of dialogue on China's Uighur issue*


Culture, clashes and crackdowns in restive Xinjiang on display at Beijing museum, inciting rare public discourse.







Beijing, China - *Three years after predominantly Muslim Uighurs staged a major protest against government rule in the northwestern Chinese province of Xinjiang, a small band of filmmakers and artists set out from Beijing for the restive region to take part in a joint exhibition - and to establish a cross-cultural rapport.*

Creating a coalition crossing the ethnic and religious boundaries that separate the Turkic-speaking Uighurs from the majority Han Chinese would not be easy. *An initially peaceful Uighur protest calling for equal protection under the law turned violent in July 2009, after security forces tried to crush the demonstration. The riots that followed in the provincial capital, Urumqi, led to the death of nearly 200 people, according to Chinese government accounts*.

The region had long been rocked by unrest. For centuries Xinjiang has been a borderland between different peoples and belief systems, and was the site of Buddhist-Muslim wars.



Yet during two decades of sketching slices of life in Xinjiang, Liu Xiaodong - who headed the journey to the province - *said he had never directly encountered the anti-government animus that fuels the sporadic violence. 

That changed just days after he touched down in Hotan, in southern Xinjiang, last June with a group of documentary filmmakers. While setting up a tent studio along the Kashgar River to sketch and paint jade prospectors in the area, the group discovered via China's version of Twitter that six hijackers were attempting to take over the cockpit of an airplane that had just left Hotan's small airport.*

*Although security officers ultimately overpowered the armed hijackers, rescuing the plane and its passengers, over the following days, "the army and police flooded into Hotan", Liu recounted.*

*After the incident, the Communist Party imposed martial law-like rule over the region. The artists continued their projects, however, and Liu later joined an art show with counterparts from Xinjiang.*

*Free-speech museum*

This year, the artists are exhibiting their chronicles of life in Xinjiang. As the filmmakers project their footage, shot amid deserts and sandstorm-pounded oases, Liu shows his sketched impressions of Xinjiang: a young Uighur couple getting married, an imam chanting scriptures, and a now-destroyed mosque. 

Liu also displays his daily journals from the trip. One day, the group encountered a military roadblock where Chinese troops wielding clubs and shields interrogated everyone passing through the checkpoint. A tour guide whispered to him, "There are many hidden terrorist dangers".

Armed police conducted nightly neighbourhood sweeps that included entering homes and checking the identity papers of each inhabitant.

These notebooks depicting life under military control in Xinjiang could never be exhibited in a Chinese government-run museum, and the private Today Art Museum in Beijing is pushing the boundaries on freedom of expression by displaying them.

Hou Hanru, a Paris-based curator who designed the exhibition, invited an array of experts on Xinjiang - including religious figures, writers and artists - to hold a series of dialogues with the public on Xinjiang's past and future.

This independent art centre could be likened to "an autonomous zone" where expanded freedom of speech can set the stage for alternatives to the system that persecutes Uighurs, Hou said.

Liu said the scholars taking part in discussions at the museum have been thanking him because inside Xinjiang, "opportunities to speak out are very limited".

*Locking down Xinjiang*

After the mid-2009 uprising, *the authorities quickly imposed a communications and information blackout across Xinjiang. All Internet access was blocked and international telephone lines were cut as security forces deployed to schools, mosques, and other public meeting places. Laptops and mobile phones were checked for any photographs of the protests or the government crackdown.*

China's government says a heavy security presence is required in Xinjiang to fight what it calls religious extremism and terrorist violence.

"Within two weeks of the riots at least 4,000 Uighurs had been arrested," said Professor Colin Mackerras of Griffith University in Australia. "There were many cases of disappearance of suspects and breaches of due legal process, including torture."

In the wake of the violent street demonstrations, China stepped up joint military exercises involving fellow members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, a security grouping that also includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Russia. The body is aimed at preventing any "spread of Islamist influence and terrorism" across Central Asia, said Mackerras, who often travels to the region.

As part of the crackdown, the *Chinese government has created a matrix of riot-proof surveillance cameras that now cover alleyways, buses, mosques - even kindergartens - across Xinjiang's capital. Beijing has also channeled $100m into strengthening its deployment of paramilitary People's Armed Police across Xinjiang, while the Chinese military nationwide has expanded anti-terrorism training.*

*Pan-Turkic union*

China's leadership is bolstering security across the region not just to prevent unrest, but also to limit the spread of ideas about a pan-Turkic union under Islamic rule, said Mackerras.

Liu, the painter, said the Muslim-majority province has been transformed over the past two decades. "The ancient mosques are disappearing - the bigger the city, the fewer the mosques."

Also being buried in the government's campaign to modernise Xinjiang are traditional arts and architecture, and even the Uighur writing system. "Of course, every ethnic group wants to protect its traditions and beliefs and architecture, and would not be happy to see these disappear," Liu said. 

Inside Xinjiang, security forces regularly monitor streets, schools and the Internet for any unapproved religious activities, while blocking dozens of websites operated by Uighur groups in exile calling for greater autonomy or human rights for their 10 million compatriots inside Xinjiang.

However, *the government blockade on Internet access, imposed for nearly a year following the last uprising in Urumqi, may have backfired. "Shutting down the Internet probably fanned discontent, especially among professionals in the cities, who are the ones taking part in the protests," said Mackerras, author of China's Minorities.*

During Mao Zedong's reign, until his death in 1976, the Communist Party tried to obliterate the languages, customs, religions and cultures of China's ethnic minorities. Later, the Party tried to create at least a semblance of religious freedom for Xinjiang's Uighurs in order to promote diplomatic ties with the oil-rich Middle East and Central Asia.

Yet *strict controls on speech, religion and peaceful assembly across Xinjiang could be like trying to cap a volcano, delaying rather than preventing its next eruption, said Mackerras.*

Hou, the exhibition's curator, suggested that "allowing greater freedom of expression could help solve Xinjiang's problems".

Any progress made towards fostering a peaceful interplay between cultures in Xinjiang, Hou said, could have "global significance in the context of geopolitical conflicts that are dominating everyday life and politics all across the world today".

The Xinjiang exhibition might travel to the Middle East later this year, added Hou.


----------



## Safriz

Chinese-Dragon said:


> We don't give a f*ck about terrorists and extremists, they deserve nothing more than a bullet each.
> 
> Haven't you seen how terrorists and extremists have destroyed your country and economy? Bring heavy handed is far better than letting terrorists run wild.



exactly..
thats because our strings are being pulled from Washington and we are fighting WOT "as told to us by USA".
But i also remember when Pakistan fought wot THE RIGHT WAY...It swat and Malakand agency in 1995 when there was a massive uprising for shariah law and people were up in arms.
All PA did was surround the area,stopped large ammunition supply and parked armoured vehicles in plain view..Local radicals fired small arms on tanks and armoured vehicles,which of course caused no harm...and after a week or two,they got bored.
Since no killings were done by PA,the support of locals swung towards PA and hard-liners got isolated.Then in Malakand Agency Shariah courts were created with option for the people if they want to take their case to normal court,jirga or a shariah court.
That way the people saw that their demands have been fulfilled and the "rebellion" simply died out without bloodshed.

So there you go..WOT needs a clever response than plain trigger happy armed response..

Reactions: Like Like:
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## q12093487q

Safriz said:


> I cant explain that and wont.
> But needless to say that Chinese forces are also to be blamed and their heavy handed tactics.
> If china wants to go the way USA went,then good luck its been 20 years since they been fighting their WOT and they achieved nothing.
> China can try brute force as they been doing since 1980s,but that wont solve the issue.
> Giving more religious rights and more freedom and economic reforms will win hearts and minds and isolate the miscreants.
> 
> I don't know about now,but back in 90s when i was a regular visitor to china,the Muslims were p.iss poor,normally found selling stuff by roadside in big Chinese cities.
> 
> make people rich and they will forget their grievances even religious ones. Thats human nature..But hungry man is always an angry man..religious or otherwise.



Let me explain it.Because What they did has nothing to do with Islam,they just want people's fear and getting attenion from the world then,seperate from china.

When talking about muslim's rights in china today(not 80s or 90s),ask Hui muslims.

Question:Is pakistan terrorists killing their people just because paksitan gov didn't give rights to muslims?


----------



## ephone

Well, that is your way of doing things.

We have no time, money or energy to play games with terrorists. 

We will use the greater terror against those terrorists and their families in a way that they would rather go to hell if they can choose again. 



Safriz said:


> exactly..
> thats because our strings are being pulled from Washington and we are fighting WOT "as told to us by USA".
> But i also remember when Pakistan fought wot THE RIGHT WAY...It swat and Malakand agency in 1995 when there was a massive uprising for shariah law and people were up in arms.
> All PA did was surround the area,stopped large ammunition supply and parked armoured vehicles in plain view..Local radicals fired small arms on tanks and armoured vehicles,which of course caused no harm...and after a week or two,they got bored.
> Since no killings were done by PA,the support of locals swung towards PA and hard-liners got isolated.Then in Malakand Agency Shariah courts were created with option for the people if they want to take their case to normal court,jirga or a shariah court.
> That way the people saw that their demands have been fulfilled and the "rebellion" simply died out without bloodshed.
> 
> So there you go..WOT needs a clever response than plain trigger happy armed response..



Nothing will change.

China does not give a fxxk to what the west hypocrite politicians will think and say.

Don't get the CCP's nerves. Otherwise, CCP will not only lock that region down, but also finally decide to do some cleansing to solve the terrorists once for all. 

Don't mis-interpret CCP as a soft power.



SpArK said:


> *The art of dialogue on China's Uighur issue*
> 
> 
> Culture, clashes and crackdowns in restive Xinjiang on display at Beijing museum, inciting rare public discourse.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beijing, China - *Three years after predominantly Muslim Uighurs staged a major protest against government rule in the northwestern Chinese province of Xinjiang, a small band of filmmakers and artists set out from Beijing for the restive region to take part in a joint exhibition - and to establish a cross-cultural rapport.*
> 
> Creating a coalition crossing the ethnic and religious boundaries that separate the Turkic-speaking Uighurs from the majority Han Chinese would not be easy. *An initially peaceful Uighur protest calling for equal protection under the law turned violent in July 2009, after security forces tried to crush the demonstration. The riots that followed in the provincial capital, Urumqi, led to the death of nearly 200 people, according to Chinese government accounts*.
> 
> The region had long been rocked by unrest. For centuries Xinjiang has been a borderland between different peoples and belief systems, and was the site of Buddhist-Muslim wars.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet during two decades of sketching slices of life in Xinjiang, Liu Xiaodong - who headed the journey to the province - *said he had never directly encountered the anti-government animus that fuels the sporadic violence.
> 
> That changed just days after he touched down in Hotan, in southern Xinjiang, last June with a group of documentary filmmakers. While setting up a tent studio along the Kashgar River to sketch and paint jade prospectors in the area, the group discovered via China's version of Twitter that six hijackers were attempting to take over the cockpit of an airplane that had just left Hotan's small airport.*
> 
> *Although security officers ultimately overpowered the armed hijackers, rescuing the plane and its passengers, over the following days, "the army and police flooded into Hotan", Liu recounted.*
> 
> *After the incident, the Communist Party imposed martial law-like rule over the region. The artists continued their projects, however, and Liu later joined an art show with counterparts from Xinjiang.*
> 
> *Free-speech museum*
> 
> This year, the artists are exhibiting their chronicles of life in Xinjiang. As the filmmakers project their footage, shot amid deserts and sandstorm-pounded oases, Liu shows his sketched impressions of Xinjiang: a young Uighur couple getting married, an imam chanting scriptures, and a now-destroyed mosque.
> 
> Liu also displays his daily journals from the trip. One day, the group encountered a military roadblock where Chinese troops wielding clubs and shields interrogated everyone passing through the checkpoint. A tour guide whispered to him, "There are many hidden terrorist dangers".
> 
> Armed police conducted nightly neighbourhood sweeps that included entering homes and checking the identity papers of each inhabitant.
> 
> These notebooks depicting life under military control in Xinjiang could never be exhibited in a Chinese government-run museum, and the private Today Art Museum in Beijing is pushing the boundaries on freedom of expression by displaying them.
> 
> Hou Hanru, a Paris-based curator who designed the exhibition, invited an array of experts on Xinjiang - including religious figures, writers and artists - to hold a series of dialogues with the public on Xinjiang's past and future.
> 
> This independent art centre could be likened to "an autonomous zone" where expanded freedom of speech can set the stage for alternatives to the system that persecutes Uighurs, Hou said.
> 
> Liu said the scholars taking part in discussions at the museum have been thanking him because inside Xinjiang, "opportunities to speak out are very limited".
> 
> *Locking down Xinjiang*
> 
> After the mid-2009 uprising, *the authorities quickly imposed a communications and information blackout across Xinjiang. All Internet access was blocked and international telephone lines were cut as security forces deployed to schools, mosques, and other public meeting places. Laptops and mobile phones were checked for any photographs of the protests or the government crackdown.*
> 
> China's government says a heavy security presence is required in Xinjiang to fight what it calls religious extremism and terrorist violence.
> 
> "Within two weeks of the riots at least 4,000 Uighurs had been arrested," said Professor Colin Mackerras of Griffith University in Australia. "There were many cases of disappearance of suspects and breaches of due legal process, including torture."
> 
> In the wake of the violent street demonstrations, China stepped up joint military exercises involving fellow members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation, a security grouping that also includes Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Russia. The body is aimed at preventing any "spread of Islamist influence and terrorism" across Central Asia, said Mackerras, who often travels to the region.
> 
> As part of the crackdown, the *Chinese government has created a matrix of riot-proof surveillance cameras that now cover alleyways, buses, mosques - even kindergartens - across Xinjiang's capital. Beijing has also channeled $100m into strengthening its deployment of paramilitary People's Armed Police across Xinjiang, while the Chinese military nationwide has expanded anti-terrorism training.*
> 
> *Pan-Turkic union*
> 
> China's leadership is bolstering security across the region not just to prevent unrest, but also to limit the spread of ideas about a pan-Turkic union under Islamic rule, said Mackerras.
> 
> Liu, the painter, said the Muslim-majority province has been transformed over the past two decades. "The ancient mosques are disappearing - the bigger the city, the fewer the mosques."
> 
> Also being buried in the government's campaign to modernise Xinjiang are traditional arts and architecture, and even the Uighur writing system. "Of course, every ethnic group wants to protect its traditions and beliefs and architecture, and would not be happy to see these disappear," Liu said.
> 
> Inside Xinjiang, security forces regularly monitor streets, schools and the Internet for any unapproved religious activities, while blocking dozens of websites operated by Uighur groups in exile calling for greater autonomy or human rights for their 10 million compatriots inside Xinjiang.
> 
> However, *the government blockade on Internet access, imposed for nearly a year following the last uprising in Urumqi, may have backfired. "Shutting down the Internet probably fanned discontent, especially among professionals in the cities, who are the ones taking part in the protests," said Mackerras, author of China's Minorities.*
> 
> During Mao Zedong's reign, until his death in 1976, the Communist Party tried to obliterate the languages, customs, religions and cultures of China's ethnic minorities. Later, the Party tried to create at least a semblance of religious freedom for Xinjiang's Uighurs in order to promote diplomatic ties with the oil-rich Middle East and Central Asia.
> 
> Yet *strict controls on speech, religion and peaceful assembly across Xinjiang could be like trying to cap a volcano, delaying rather than preventing its next eruption, said Mackerras.*
> 
> Hou, the exhibition's curator, suggested that "allowing greater freedom of expression could help solve Xinjiang's problems".
> 
> Any progress made towards fostering a peaceful interplay between cultures in Xinjiang, Hou said, could have "global significance in the context of geopolitical conflicts that are dominating everyday life and politics all across the world today".
> 
> The Xinjiang exhibition might travel to the Middle East later this year, added Hou.


----------



## ephone

If what those terrorists doing have nothing to do with islam, well, how many imams, or at least major imams, major muslim scholars come out denouncing what those terrorists have done in the past 10 years, or 20 years???

What is the percentage of those imams denouncing terrorists vs those keeping silence???





q12093487q said:


> Let me explain it.Because What they did has nothing to do with Islam,they just want people's fear and getting attenion from the world then,seperate from china.
> 
> When talking about muslim's rights in china today(not 80s or 90s),ask Hui muslims.
> 
> Question:Is pakistan terrorists killing their people just because paksitan gov didn't give rights to muslims?


----------



## SpArK

Are they really *terrorists* is an interesting question.


----------



## q12093487q

ephone said:


> Nothing will change.
> 
> China does not give a fxxk to what the west hypocrite politicians will think and say.
> 
> Don't get the CCP's nerves. Otherwise, CCP will not only lock that region down, but also finally decide to do some cleansing to solve the terrorists once for all.
> 
> Don't mis-interpret CCP as a soft power
> 
> .



Wrong&#65281;Everything will change since china is becoming stronger and more developed &#65292;we will unite all ethnic minorities in china including uyghurs and other muslims to fight against terrorists&#65292;RIP to those brave uyghur police.



ephone said:


> Nothing will change.
> 
> China does not give a fxxk to what the west hypocrite politicians will think and say.
> 
> Don't get the CCP's nerves. Otherwise, CCP will not only lock that region down, but also finally decide to do some cleansing to solve the terrorists once for all.
> 
> Don't mis-interpret CCP as a soft power
> 
> .



Wrong&#65281;Everything will change since china is becoming stronger and more developed &#65292;we will unite all ethnic minorities in china including uyghurs and other muslims to fight against terrorists&#65292;RIP to those brave uyghur police.


----------



## q12093487q

ephone said:


> If what those terrorists doing have nothing to do with islam, well, how many imams, or at least major imams, major muslim scholars come out denouncing what those terrorists have done in the past 10 years, or 20 years???
> 
> What is the percentage of those imams denouncing terrorists vs those keeping silence???



Have you ever seen the video tape that brainwashed those terrorists?Full of hate,killing all han chinese,hating other muslims,sending kazhahs back to their moustains.How is things like that has anything to do with islam? 

They were brainwashed with hate just like other separatists around the world which has nothing to do with religion


----------



## ephone

My question is still the same:

If what those terrorists doing have nothing to do with islam, well, how many imams, or at least major imams, major muslim scholars come out denouncing what those terrorists have done in the past 10 years, or 20 years???

What is the percentage of those imams denouncing terrorists vs those keeping silence???




q12093487q said:


> Have you ever seen the video tape that brainwashed those terrorists?Full of hate,killing all han chinese,hating other muslims,sending kazhahs back to their moustains.How is things like that has anything to do with islam?
> 
> They were brainwashed with hate just like other separatists around the world which has nothing to do with religion



Do not over-use the propaganda word "unite" too much. 

There are people we can unite but there are some we cannot. 

You seem to over-simplify the issue here.





q12093487q said:


> Wrong&#65281;Everything will change since china is becoming stronger and more developed &#65292;we will unite all ethnic minorities in china including uyghurs and other muslims to fight against terrorists&#65292;RIP to those brave uyghur police.
> 
> 
> 
> Wrong&#65281;Everything will change since china is becoming stronger and more developed &#65292;we will unite all ethnic minorities in china including uyghurs and other muslims to fight against terrorists&#65292;RIP to those brave uyghur police.


----------



## Chinese-Dragon

q12093487q said:


> Have you ever seen the video tape that brainwashed those terrorists?Full of hate,killing all han chinese,hating other muslims,sending kazhahs back to their moustains.How is things like that has anything to do with islam?
> 
> They were brainwashed with hate just like other separatists around the world which has nothing to do with religion



According to the official government spokeswoman Hou Hanmin, these terrorists who killed 15 of our civilians were preparing for "Jihad".


----------



## ephone

You do not need remind China of that. China is well aware what kind of bastards those islam terrorists are to the world. However, it seems it all went to the deaf ears until 9/11. 



aakash_2410 said:


> It took America 9/11 and Europe 7/7 London bombings to understand what the rest of the world (India, Israel, Russia) was saying for decades. I truly hope China doesn't need any incident to wake up. Chinese are smart, but they should be careful. Confucius had always maintained the society should be obedient.
> 
> I know every religion is rogue and blah blah blah! But why do 99.9% of terrorists hail from one single religion? They have forced, generally peaceful Hindus/Sikhs to pick up arms. Giving this example I may be biased but heck they have even forced Buddhists (World's most peaceful religion) to take up arms. There must be something ey?



Well, by your logic, whether OBL is one is also an interesting queston???!!!



SpArK said:


> Are they really *terrorists* is an interesting question.


----------



## q12093487q

ephone said:


> My question is still the same:
> 
> If what those terrorists doing have nothing to do with islam, well, how many imams, or at least major imams, major muslim scholars come out denouncing what those terrorists have done in the past 10 years, or 20 years???
> 
> What is the percentage of those imams denouncing terrorists vs those keeping silence???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do not over-use the propaganda word "unite" too much.
> 
> There are people we can unite but there are some we cannot.
> 
> You seem to over-simplify the issue here.



The imams didn't denounced out because they afraid of being assassinated .In the 90s a imam being assassinated right in the mosque in kasgar.It has happened several times .But things have changed a lot better .since then,they were protected.

I am not over-simplifying the issue,its you.I knew a lot eaducated uyghurs who have the same thought with me


----------



## Safriz

q12093487q said:


> Have you ever seen the video tape that brainwashed those terrorists?Full of hate,killing all han chinese,hating other muslims,sending kazhahs back to their moustains.How is things like that has anything to do with islam?
> 
> They were brainwashed with hate just like other separatists around the world which has nothing to do with religion



Its another thing that you dont know the source of the video.
The likes of you will analyze, and verify every news for authenticity,but when it comes to videos of some muslim kids firing guns,you have no problem beleiving it as ground reality withot ever verifying the source.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## q12093487q

Safriz said:


> Its another thing that you dont know the source of the video.
> The likes of you will analyze, and verify every news for authenticity,but when it comes to videos of some muslim kids firing guns,you have no problem beleiving it as ground reality withot ever verifying the source.



I'm not talking about the kids firing guns video,its another video which they used to brainwash with hate.And i won't upload it here


----------



## ephone

Let me ask the question all over again:

How many imams are with those terrorists and encourage those terrorist activities and offer protections to those terrorists???

How many muslims are secretly or openly with those terrorists, offer protections to those terrorists, provide logistics, stuff, supplies and whatever to those terrorists???

If you do not think there is anything wrong with islam today, that is your opinion. We do see all kinds of terrorists from different groups, religions and etc.

However, none of them are terrorising the whole world like those islam terrorists.



q12093487q said:


> The imams didn't denounced out because they afraid of being assassinated .In the 90s a imam being assassinated right in the mosque in kasgar.It has happened several times .But things have changed a lot better .since then,they were protected.
> 
> I am not over-simplifying the issue,its you.I knew a lot eaducated uyghurs who have the same thought with me


----------



## q12093487q

ephone said:


> Let me ask the question all over again:
> 
> How many imams are with those terrorists and encourage those terrorist activities and offer protections to those terrorists???
> 
> How many muslims are secretly or openly with those terrorists, offer protections to those terrorists, provide logistics, stuff, supplies and whatever to those terrorists???
> 
> If you do not think there is anything wrong with islam today, that is your opinion. We do see all kinds of terrorists from different groups, religions and etc.
> 
> However, none of them are terrorising the whole world like those islam terrorists.



I don't know .

But I want to ask you the question :how many hui muslims have involved in those Terrorisms?


----------



## q12093487q

Chinese-Dragon said:


> According to the official government spokeswoman Hou Hanmin, these terrorists who killed 15 of our civilians were preparing for "Jihad".



I know ,jihad is just a word. We are human ,we can kill each other in the name of anything.&#22307;&#25112;&#65292;&#25110;&#32773;&#25442;&#20010;&#35828;&#27861;&#25171;&#20183;&#65292;&#24178;&#26550;&#65292;&#26432;&#20154;&#65292;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#21306;&#21035;&#65292;&#21482;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#34987;&#27927;&#33041;&#20135;&#29983;&#20167;&#24680;&#65292;&#24378;&#35843;&#8220;&#22307;&#25112;&#8221;&#36825;&#20010;&#35789;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#29992;&#65292;&#20851;&#38190;&#26159;&#29992;&#20167;&#24680;&#26469;&#27927;&#33041;


----------



## ephone

I did not say they are, do I?



q12093487q said:


> I don't know .
> 
> But I want to ask you the question :how many hui muslims have involved in those Terrorisms?



I am really surprised that you are this naive.

If the islam terrorists only mentioned "fight", "killing" or others, that is their own business.

However, if the the islam terrorists mentioned "jihad", by quran, that becomes all muslim's religious responsibility and all other muslims should join. 

Mentioning "jihad" gives the terrorists the biggest help and source to recruit their terrorists replacements.






q12093487q said:


> I know ,jihad is just a word. We are human ,we can kill each other in the name of anything.&#22307;&#25112;&#65292;&#25110;&#32773;&#25442;&#20010;&#35828;&#27861;&#25171;&#20183;&#65292;&#24178;&#26550;&#65292;&#26432;&#20154;&#65292;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#21306;&#21035;&#65292;&#21482;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#34987;&#27927;&#33041;&#20135;&#29983;&#20167;&#24680;&#65292;&#24378;&#35843;&#8220;&#22307;&#25112;&#8221;&#36825;&#20010;&#35789;&#26377;&#20160;&#20040;&#29992;&#65292;&#20851;&#38190;&#26159;&#29992;&#20167;&#24680;&#26469;&#27927;&#33041;


----------



## q12093487q

ephone said:


> I did not say they are, do I?



So let me clear my opinion&#65292;it&#8216;s racial hate not the religious hate&#65292;Do not misleaded by the word &#8217;jihad&#8221; or &#8216;islam&#8221;&#65292;it is just disguise&#12290;They want to play sympathic card in the muslim world to gain their support&#65292;but they haved show their true face since they have killed other muslims


----------



## Speeder 2

I've looked thru the last 2 / 3 pages and absolutely agree with what *ePhone* said.

China, is the biggest and the worst nightmare for ANY terrorist, whatever religion or hairstyle he/she has.

Of the entire world, China has the largest manpower, financial power, PLA & armed police firepower, brainpower, discipline, tactical thoroughness, strategic determination, and above all, absolute textbook ruthlessness that you can't even dream of, to root out the terrorists once and for all wherever they hide. 

If you make China really angry, by killing innocent civilians, what China will do will make the US look like a 6-yrs-old and Guantanamo look like 6-star resort. Qing Dynasty emperors even took out the entire trouble-making riot population across vast regions - anyone who shared the same surnames or first names or clothes or whatever...

When doing so, CPC will not give 2 darn figs on "human rights" or "animal rights" or "int'l pressure"...the more you talk the less it cares. There will be no news coverage, no twitter chitchat, no trial, no judges, no witnesses, no after-party footnote... because the region will be locked off into the dark age. No one in the world, not even god, will know that you were even born. 

Once CPC and PLA decide to retaliate, ANY perceived terrorist considered forming a remote shred of danger to the Chinese public security will not see the next daylight, guaranteed.

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## ephone

Really? 

Nothing religious, purely racial???

Well, muslims consist of all races. How could it become a racial hate now?

To be honest, your interpretation really makes me laugh. Why don't you ask around how many agree with you then?

Even the naive/double-standard westerns won't say it is this simple. 

Man, you should write your analysis and send it to a sociology/political journal and trying to get it published. 

That will the 21st century's greatest discovery.

In addition, it is not only CCP who conduct this way. The past empires that rule China have consistently done that. Qing Empire dealing with the northwest muslim riots, Ming Empire dealing with the south muslim riots and etc...



Speeder 2 said:


> I've looked thru the last 2 / 3 pages and absolutely agree with what *ePhone* said.
> 
> China, is the biggest and the worst nightmare for ANY terrorist, whatever religion or hairstyle he/she has.
> 
> Of the entire world, China has the largest manpower, financial power, PLA & armed police firepower, brainpower, discipline, tactical thoroughness, strategic determination, and above all, absolute textbook ruthlessness that you can't even dream of, to root out the terrorists once and for all wherever they hide.
> 
> If you make China really angry, by killing innocent civilians, what China will do will make the US look like 6-yrs-old kid and Guantanamo look like 6-star resort. Qing Dynasty emperors even took out the entire trouble-making riot population across vast regions - anyone who shared the same surnames or first names or clothes or whatever...
> 
> When doing so, CPC will not give 2 darn figs on "human rights" or "animal rights". There will be no news coverage, no twitter chitchat, no trial, no judges, no witnesses, no after-party footnote... because the region will be locked off into dark ages. No one in the world, not even god, will know that you were even born.
> 
> Once CPC and PLA decide to retaliate, ANY perceived terrorist considered forming a remote shred of danger to the Chinese public security will not see the next daylight, guaranteed.


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## ephone

In addition, it is not only CCP who have done this way. The past empires that ruled China have done that consistently. Qing Empires dealing with northwest muslim riots, Ming Empires dealing with south muslim riots... 

Whoever rules China will not tolerate those terrorists, extremists or separatists, or whatever names you give them.

Moreover, Xinjiang was quite quiet and peacefully before open/reform. General Wang has done a terrific job cleansing those islam terrorists. 

However, our later soft-handling, trying to "unite" all minorities policies apparently give certain minorities, that have no interest to be united, more chances to backfire with more terrorist activities...

To be honest, China is quite soft compared to whatever happened before, if you remember what americans have done to those indians. 



Speeder 2 said:


> I've looked thru the last 2 / 3 pages and absolutely agree with what *ePhone* said.
> 
> China, is the biggest and the worst nightmare for ANY terrorist, whatever religion or hairstyle he/she has.
> 
> Of the entire world, China has the largest manpower, financial power, PLA & armed police firepower, brainpower, discipline, tactical thoroughness, strategic determination, and above all, absolute textbook ruthlessness that you can't even dream of, to root out the terrorists once and for all wherever they hide.
> 
> If you make China really angry, by killing innocent civilians, what China will do will make the US look like a 6-yrs-old and Guantanamo look like 6-star resort. Qing Dynasty emperors even took out the entire trouble-making riot population across vast regions - anyone who shared the same surnames or first names or clothes or whatever...
> 
> When doing so, CPC will not give 2 darn figs on "human rights" or "animal rights" or "int'l pressure"...the more you talk the less it cares. There will be no news coverage, no twitter chitchat, no trial, no judges, no witnesses, no after-party footnote... because the region will be locked off into the dark age. No one in the world, not even god, will know that you were even born.
> 
> Once CPC and PLA decide to retaliate, ANY perceived terrorist considered forming a remote shred of danger to the Chinese public security will not see the next daylight, guaranteed.


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## q12093487q

ephone said:


> I did not say they are, do I?
> 
> 
> 
> I am really surprised that you are this naive.
> 
> If the islam terrorists only mentioned "fight", "killing" or others, that is their own business.
> 
> However, if the the islam terrorists mentioned "jihad", by quran, that becomes all muslim's religious responsibility and all other muslims should join.
> 
> Mentioning "jihad" gives the terrorists the biggest help and source to recruit their terrorists replacements.



I am not naive at all&#65292;you fell into their trap&#65292;they use the world jihad to cover their true face&#65292;radical hate&#65292;do you understand&#65311;Why the hell they kill other muslim groups or even uyghur themseveles&#65311;Why?Anyone who pro&#8212;han will be killed no matter what race what religion they are&#65311;DO YOU UNDRSTAND &#65281;&#65311;Have you talked with tajiks in the border&#65311;

We can unite all muslim groups hui kazhah tajik and Kyrgyz to fight against terriosts&#65292;they all support us&#65292;DO YOU UNDERSTAND&#65311;


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## Chinese-Dragon

q12093487q said:


> I am not naive at all&#65292;you fell into their trap&#65292;they use the world jihad to cover their true face&#65292;radical hate&#65292;do you understand&#65311;Why the hell they kill other muslim groups or even uyghur themseveles&#65311;Why?Anyone who prohan will be killed no matter what race what religion they are&#65311;DO YOU UNDRSTAND &#65281;&#65311;Have you talked with tajiks in the border&#65311;



Have you seen the "Jihad" fighters in the Middle East?

They ALWAYS kill other Muslims. They consider other Muslims to be traitors.



q12093487q said:


> We can unite all muslim groups hui kazhah tajik and Kyrgyz to fight against terriosts&#65292;they all support us&#65292;DO YOU UNDERSTAND&#65311;



I agree here.


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## ephone

Well, you go ahead uniting them. Enjoy.

There are people that can be united and there are that cannot.

Otherwise, we should have united the Huns, the Turks in the past history. We do not have to fight bloody wars with them for hundreds of years to kick them out to other places.

Even for Hui, who are mainly han Chinese, our own blood, we have to fight bloody wars with those hui rioters, in the past, simply due to religious belief, at least for Ming and Qing Empire and even the history period between 1911-1950; 

You say religion does not play a factor, only racial hate???




q12093487q said:


> I am not naive at all&#65292;you fell into their trap&#65292;they use the world jihad to cover their true face&#65292;radical hate&#65292;do you understand&#65311;Why the hell they kill other muslim groups or even uyghur themseveles&#65311;Why?Anyone who pro&#8212;han will be killed no matter what race what religion they are&#65311;DO YOU UNDRSTAND &#65281;&#65311;Have you talked with tajiks in the border&#65311;
> 
> We can unite all muslim groups hui kazhah tajik and Kyrgyz to fight against terriosts&#65292;they all support us&#65292;DO YOU UNDERSTAND&#65311;


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## q12093487q

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Have you seen the "Jihad" fighters in the Middle East?
> 
> They ALWAYS kill other Muslims. They consider other Muslims to be traitors.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree here.



&#37027;&#26159;&#22240;&#20026;&#20182;&#20204;&#37096;&#33853;&#24418;&#24577;&#22987;&#32456;&#22823;&#20110;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#20197;&#26576;&#25945;&#20043;&#21517;&#34255;&#37096;&#33853;&#20167;&#24680;&#20043;&#24515;&#20351;&#24471;&#20167;&#26432;&#24072;&#20986;&#26377;&#21517;



ephone said:


> Well, you go ahead uniting them. Enjoy.



I have 
I know what they thought

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## Chinese-Dragon

q12093487q said:


> &#37027;&#26159;&#22240;&#20026;&#20182;&#20204;&#37096;&#33853;&#24418;&#24577;&#22987;&#32456;&#22823;&#20110;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#20197;&#26576;&#25945;&#20043;&#21517;&#34255;&#37096;&#33853;&#20167;&#24680;&#20043;&#24515;&#20351;&#24471;&#20167;&#26432;&#24072;&#20986;&#26377;&#21517;
> 
> 
> 
> I have
> I know what they thought



I hope you are right. Otherwise we are in big trouble.


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## atatwolf

ephone said:


> We have these terrorists problems for quite a long time. Let's kill those Uighur terrorists bastards.



terrorist? China occupies their country. So I would say China is doing the terrorism.

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## Hashshāshīn

atatwolf said:


> terrorist? China occupies their country. So I would say China is doing the terrorism.



Please explain to me how China 'occupies' Xinjiang?


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## Wright

The Soviets were pretty hard on Terrorism too. Glad to see China is holding no punches back unlike the politically correct US.


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## kalu_miah

I have a question for the Chinese, why is it that the problem is always with Uyghurs. There are other large Muslim groups in China. The Hui is the largest I think. Then comes the Uyghurs. And then we have Kazakhs (Qazaqs), Kyrgyz, Tajik etc. Are there problems with any of these other groups in recent years?

If we go back in history both Yuan and Qing were not so good for the Muslims. Muslims helped Hans (Ming) topple the Yuan and the relationship was great during Ming. But the worst time for Muslims in China was during Qing, specially for various regional Hui's, and there were many rebellions which were crushed with large death tolls.

Uyghurs have a interesting history of their own. They betrayed their Mongol origin rulers and allied with Qing it seems:

Uyghur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


> *The area of the Chagatai Khanate were the modern Uyghurs lived came to be known as Moghulistan, which meant "land of the Mongols". The area came to be ruled by various Khanates whose Khans were descended from Chagatai Khan. Eventually the Naqshbandi Sufi Khojas usurped power from the Chagataid Khans in Kashgar. As the Buddhist Oirat Mongol Zunghar Khanate grew in power, it conquered and took control over the territoty of the Chagatai Khans. The Aqtaghlik Khojas became vassals to the Zunghars while the Qarataghlik Khojas sided with the Qing Chinese against the Zunghars and Aqtaghliks.
> 
> Chagatai Khanate (Moghulistan) in 1490
> 
> The Qing dynasty, with the support of the Uyghur Kumul Khanate and the Uyghur Qarataghlik Khojas conquered Xinjiang in the 18th century from the Zunghar Khanate and the Zunghar allied Aqtaghlik Khojas.*


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## ephone

Do you know where China kicked the ***** of the Huns two thousand years ago???

Do you know when China set up government office two thousand years ago???

That is where we call Xinjiang. By then, there is only Han Chinese and the Huns there. There is not even a race called Turks existing, let alone uighurs.

You study history backwardly???



atatwolf said:


> terrorist? China occupies their country. So I would say China is doing the terrorism.



In the south, there are muslim riots during Ming Empire that was crushed as well. 

As for Hui, they have done their shares but was crushed during both Ming and Qing empires period, though in different regions.

After Hui, uighurs has certain size and that makes them capable to do some damages.



kalu_miah said:


> I have a question for the Chinese, why is it that the problem is always with Uyghurs. There are other large Muslim groups in China. The Hui is the largest I think. Then comes the Uyghurs. And then we have Kazakhs (Qazaqs), Kyrgyz, Tajik etc. Are there problems with any of these other groups in recent years?
> 
> If we go back in history both Yuan and Qing were not so good for the Muslims. Muslims helped Hans (Ming) topple the Yuan and the relationship was great during Ming. But the worst time for Muslims in China was during Qing, specially for various regional Hui's, and there were many rebellions which were crushed with large death tolls.
> 
> Uyghurs have a interesting history of their own. They betrayed their Mongol origin rulers and allied with Qing it seems:
> 
> Uyghur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Sasquatch

Alright think this thread has dragged out as far as it can go, plenty of illogical comments and it's getting out of control anyway thread closed.


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## cirr

become the 44th and 45th World Heritage Sites of China:

Tianshan:
























*Hani Rice Terraces:*

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## Okemos

I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence. 

No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!

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## itaskol

10 terrorist killed till now

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## Parul

Sad incident! Rest in peace.

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## SRP

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



Mate religion is not violence. Some radicals in this religion making it look like this in the name of jihad.

RIP....

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## iranigirl2

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



As a muslim , I totally agree with you. I'm so disgusted by these Turkic Muslims in China, I've the seen videos online, they are like savages.


But I just want you to know that a lot minority Muslims also suffer from violent attacks. So, please don't assume all muslims are the same.


Majority groups also suffer daily attacks by terrorists.


I support the Chinese government to control these people. They are not acting like Muslims. They act like savages. 


Unfortunately the Islamic world is going through a dark period right now. 

Muslims are so easily manipulated by outside forces.


Take a look at Syria, I call it Jihad for *Imam CIA.*


Poverty and ignorance breeds extremism. The Chinese government should continue to develop the area , it might take a generation of two but things will get better.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



has nothing to do with Islam as a religion

it's an internal issue of PRC,but an issue being exploited by outsiders in order to damage the country; kind of like Buddhist tibetans

if Islam was the issue, then majority of Pakistanis (your neighbour) would not be having positive view of Chinese to the east....do remember that on 2 occasions, Islamic Republic of Pakistan sent Islamic delegation to China to convince people in that province to stop their violence and uprisings

at any rate, RIP to the dead; such attacks arent justifiable at all

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## ChineseTiger1986

You are exploiting this incident to make another China vs Islam thread.

We have million of Hui Muslims who are very loyal to China, those Xinjiang separatists are terrorists, they killed other Muslims as well, so what do you expect from them?



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> has nothing to do with Islam as a religion
> 
> it's an internal issue of PRC,but an issue being exploited by outsiders in order to damage the country; kind of like Buddhist tibetans
> 
> if Islam was the issue, then majority of Pakistanis (your neighbour) would not be having positive view of Chinese to the east....do remember that on 2 occasions, Islamic Republic of Pakistan sent Islamic delegation to China to convince people in that province to stop their violence and uprisings
> 
> at any rate, RIP to the dead; such attacks arent justifiable at all



He is a troll getting paid by US, just ignore him.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You are exploiting this incident to make another China vs Islam thread.
> 
> We have million of Hui Muslims are not very loyal to China, those are terrorists, they killed Muslims as well, so what do you expect from them?
> 
> 
> 
> He is a troll getting paid by US, just ignore him.



well regardless of what/who he is, the frustration could be understandable

those supporting such groups who harm civilians and cause communal unrest should face strict action

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## Parul

itaskol said:


> 10 terrorist killed till now



Keep on killing the scums :snipe:

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## Okemos

iranigirl2 said:


> As a muslim , I totally agree with you. I'm so disgusted by these Turkic Muslims in China, I've the seen videos online, they are like savages.
> 
> 
> But I just want you to know that a lot minority Muslims also suffer from violent attacks. So, please don't assume all muslims are the same.
> 
> 
> Majority groups also suffer daily attacks by terrorists.
> 
> 
> I support the Chinese government to control these people. They are not acting like Muslims. They act like savages.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the Islamic world is going through a dark period right now.
> 
> Muslims are so easily manipulated by outside forces.
> 
> 
> Take a look at Syria, I call it Jihad for Imam CIA.



I totally understand. Islam might need go through similar modernization like Christianity? I am ignorant about Islam, so I don't really know why this century we are seeing so much violence in Islamic world.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> well regardless of what/who he is, the frustration could be understandable
> 
> those supporting such groups who harm civilians and cause communal unrest should face strict action



I made a typo in my post, i mean "Hui Muslims are very loyal to China".

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## Wholegrain

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



The rioters were armed with knives. There were no guns involved.

You might want to check in with the idiots who run the education system in China. The Soviet Union created the Uyghur ethnicity in 1921 and wrote Uyghur nationalist histories to promote ethnic separatism and nationalism so they could split Xinjiang from China. But the current government in China is teaching this same fake ethnic classification and identity to Uyghurs which promotes separatist and nationalist feelings.

Xinjiang also used to be two territories before 1884. The southern part was the Tarim Basin. The north was Dzungharia. Uyghurs were only native to the Tarim basin and they are immigrants to Dzungharia as well. The Buddhist Zunghars are native to Dzungharia

However they were combined into one province in 1884. The CPC government then slapped the name "Uyghur autonomous region" on the entire province despite Dzungharia not being Uyghur land. This gives Uyghurs the false conception that the entire province is their native land. Most Han live in Dzungharia and are not demographically swamping the Uyghurs in the Tarim, but since China keeps stats for the entire province it gave people the false impression.

Urumqi was originally not a Uyghur city, the name Urumqi is from the Zunghar language. The city was initially inhabited by Hui and Han with Chinese style mosques. The Uyghur immigrants and Uyghur style mosques came later.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

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## Okemos

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> has nothing to do with Islam as a religion
> 
> it's an internal issue of PRC,but an issue being exploited by outsiders in order to damage the country; kind of like Buddhist tibetans
> 
> if Islam was the issue, then majority of Pakistanis (your neighbour) would not be having positive view of Chinese to the east....do remember that on 2 occasions, Islamic Republic of Pakistan sent Islamic delegation to China to convince people in that province to stop their violence and uprisings
> 
> at any rate, RIP to the dead; such attacks arent justifiable at all



Your statement is based on logical fallacy. Islam could cause some people to be extremists, that statement does not translate into that statement that Islam will cause all believers to be extremists. I am sure majority of Islam believers are moderates, but that doesn't mean that some believers could not be radicalized easily by Islam.

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## Echo_419

itaskol said:


> 10 terrorist killed till now



Keep killing the suckers you are doing a favor to the world

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## RazPaK

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



People of Islam are not violent, brother.

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## Okemos

Wholegrain said:


> The rioters were armed with knives. There were no guns involved.
> 
> You might want to check in with the idiots who run the education system in China. The Soviet Union created the Uyghur ethnicity in 1921 and wrote Uyghur nationalist histories to promote ethnic separatism and nationalism so they could split Xinjiang from China. But the current government in China is teaching this same fake ethnic classification and identity to Uyghurs which promotes separatist and nationalist feelings.
> 
> Xinjiang also used to be two territories before 1884. The southern part was the Tarim Basin. The north was Dzungharia. Uyghurs were only native to the Tarim basin and they are immigrants to Dzungharia as well. The Buddhist Zunghars are native to Dzungharia
> 
> However they were combined into one province in 1884. The CPC government then slapped the name "Uyghur autonomous region" on the entire province despite Dzungharia not being Uyghur land. This gives Uyghurs the false conception that the entire province is their native land. Most Han live in Dzungharia and are not demographically swamping the Uyghurs in the Tarim, but since China keeps stats for the entire province it gave people the false impression.
> 
> Urumqi was originally not a Uyghur city, the name Urumqi is from the Zunghar language. The city was initially inhabited by Hui and Han with Chinese style mosques. The Uyghur immigrants and Uyghur style mosques came later.
> 
> Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books



I totally agree with you. Xinjiaing's problem is totally CCP's own making, starting from Hu Yaobang in 1980s. Most Chinese know that. Hu had a rosy dreamy picture of ethnic harmony and overly empowered ethnic minorities by creating so called autonomous regions even though some of those regions are Han-dominant, and &#20004;&#23569;&#19968;&#23485;&#12288;(leniency to minority criminals)

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## iranigirl2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You are exploiting this incident to make another China vs Islam thread.
> 
> We have million of Hui Muslims who are very loyal to China, those Xinjiang separatists are terrorists, they killed other Muslims as well, so what do you expect from them?
> 
> 
> 
> He is a troll getting paid by US, just ignore him.



His frustration is understandable, because even Muslims are tired of these extremists.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Okemos said:


> Your statement is based on logical fallacy. Islam could cause some people to be extremists, that statement does not translate Islam will cause all believers to be extremists. I am sure majority of Islam believers are moderates, but that doesn't mean that some believers could be radicalized easily by Islam.



every religious group has its fair share of whackos; just look at the Buddhists in Myanmar and see what theyre doing

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## Awesome

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but *why are people of Islam religion so violent?* China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



I don't know why... My condolences to China and condemnation for all those involved.

Pakistan and China should be cooperating in expunging terrorism from our western regions, instead of the United States who does not have a real stake in the elimination of terrorism.


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## RazPaK

Parul said:


> Keep on killing the scums :snipe:



If you are happy about getting Muslims murdered, then remember we will not be erased from history.


We will erase you hindus first, If you continue your hate.



Okemos said:


> I totally agree with you. Xinjiaing's problem is totally CCP's own making, starting from Hu Yaobang in 1980s. Most Chinese know that. Hu had a rosy dreamy picture of ethnic harmony and overly empowered ethnic minorities by creating so called autonomous regions even though some of those regions are Han-dominant.



This shmuck doesn't understand that some of the greatest generals of China were muslims.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Awesome said:


> I don't know why... My condolences to China and condemnation for all those involved.
> 
> Pakistan and China should be cooperating in expunging terrorism from our western regions, instead of the United States who does not have a real stake in the elimination of terrorism.



This troll is working for his US master, since his master has deep feud with Muslims, so he wants to deviate this problem for his master by making into China vs Islam.

Just don't fall into his divide and conquer trap, we all know those terrorists in Xinjiang was founded by his US master.







Heck, we never seen Okemos blamed his US master for this.

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## Chinese-Dragon

These f*cking terrorists.

WTF is the Xinjiang government so incompetent for. Useless as sh*t.

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## iranigirl2

Okemos said:


> I totally understand. Islam might need go through similar modernization like Christianity? I am ignorant about Islam, so I don't really know why this century we are seeing so much violence in Islamic world.



I don't know much about Chinese Muslims. I've only watched the horrible videos on youtube, where they kill people with knives and run over people with cars. 

There are different sects within Islam. Some sects are very extreme, *others not so much. So maybe the Chinese government should promote the more open sect.*

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## Parul

RazPaK said:


> If you are happy about getting Muslims murdered, then remember we will not be erased from history.
> 
> 
> We will erase you hindus first, If you continue your hate.


I don't hate any religion. However, I hate terrorist from all the religion's. There is no good terrorist or bad terrorist. Rest you don't even deserve a reply.

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## VelocuR

is there CIA agents to create chaos and unrest situations in China after Snowden case?

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## Okemos

Chinesetiger, please stop making personal attacks, or I would report you. I will not stoop myself so low as to respond to your personal attacks.


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## itaskol

it does not matter if lslam as religion has anything to do with violent.
it was maybe a misunderstanding.
but this misunderstanding will growing bigger and bigger in near future

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## ChineseTiger1986

RaptorRX707 said:


> is there CIA agents to create chaos and unrest situations in China after Snowden case?



CIA was definitely the mastermind behind this, our military insiders told us in last month something will happen in Xinjiang in June, now it seems they were completely right.

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## iranigirl2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This troll is working for his US master, since his master has deep feud with Muslims, so he wants to deviate this problem for his master by making into China vs Islam.
> 
> Just don't fall into his divide and conquer trap, we all know those terrorists in Xinjiang was founded by his US master.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Heck, we never seen Okemos blamed his US master for this.



USA is the number one exporter and supporter of Terrorism. It's unbelievable how much they have contributed to Jihad since the 1980's. They've created all the modern Jihadis groups. The people that behead and kill at random just for the sake of religion. Disgusting.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Okemos said:


> Chinesetiger, please stop making personal attacks, or I would report you. I will not stoop myself so low as to respond to your personal attacks.



You are the one who first created the religious flamebait as a headline, so i have already pushed the report button on you.

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## iranigirl2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CIA was definitely the mastermind behind this, our military insiders told us in last month something will happen in Xinjiang in June, now it seems they were completely right.



It's CIA along with MI6.


----------



## RazPaK

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You are the one who first created the religious flamebait as a headline, so i have already pushed the report button on you.



Muslims have contributed to China more than any other religion.


Op is a fool.

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## Jade

Islamic terrorism needs the whole world to take on collectively.

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## Okemos

itaskol said:


> it does not matter if lslam as religion has anything to do with violent.
> it was maybe a misunderstanding.
> but this misunderstanding will growing bigger and bigger in near future



That's also true. Innocent people of Islam will be associated with those terrorists and get unfairly treated and alienated. So for the sake of all people, we have to face the reality and tackle the issue, instead of dodging the issue and blaming others.

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## kurup

RIP to the innocent people killed by terrorists.



RazPaK said:


> If you are happy about getting Muslims murdered, then remember we will not be erased from history.



Where did she say that ?? She is happy at the terrorist getting killed , So am I .



RazPaK said:


> We will erase you hindus first, If you continue your hate.



Pleaseeee .... 

You can do nothing , keyboard warrior.

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## ChineseTiger1986

RazPaK said:


> Muslims have contributed to China more than any other religion.
> 
> 
> Op is a fool.



He was probably getting paid by CIA.

Over 90% of his posts were about China vs Islam, he clearly has an agenda.

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## Jade

The number of people killed went up. It is now 27

Riots kill 27 in minority region of far west China

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## Okemos

RazPaK said:


> Muslims have contributed to China more than any other religion.
> 
> 
> Op is a fool.



More than any other religions? I am sorry, China is dominantly Buddhist and Daoist country, not an Islamic country. Also, you should stop resorting to personal attacks.

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## xuxu1457

Sad for that, RIP
Influenced by foreign terrorists for some people of Xinjiang &#65292;while 11 million Hui muslims have very well relation with others, So I don't think it's the problem of muslim, but only terrorists

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## RazPaK

Okemos said:


> More than any other religions? I am sorry, China is dominantly Buddhist and Daoist country, not an Islamic country. Also, you should stop resorting to personal attacks.



You should also learn about the great Muslim Chinese Generals of your country.


Please open up a book, before bashing Islamic religion.


Muslim Chinese are more loyal to their country than you.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Jade said:


> The number of people killed went up. It is now 27
> 
> Riots kill 27 in minority region of far west China



Number is the same. We don't count the 10 dead terrorists.

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## ChineseTiger1986

RazPaK said:


> You should also learn about the great Muslim Chinese Generals of your country.
> 
> 
> Please open up a book, before bashing Islamic religion.
> 
> 
> Muslim Chinese are more loyal to their country than you.



He is only loyal to USA, since China vs Islam will be beneficial for USA only.

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## Parul

kurup said:


> RIP to the innocent people killed by terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did she say that ?? She is happy at the terrorist getting killed , So am I .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pleaseeee ....
> 
> You can do nothing , keyboard warrior.



Mate, I don't tend to see everything from the Lenses of religion. Rest I've answered him.

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## RazPaK

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He is only loyal to USA, since China vs Islam will be beneficial for USA only.



There were many legendary Hui generals of China.

Chinese are very smart people, but it is sad to see they don't learn their history.

Why should I as a Pakistani tell this Chinese guy about his history?

He should know.

Chinese Muslims are loyal to Allah swt and China. 


Not to anyone else.


If guys like him try to insult them then he is insulting his own people.

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## scobydoo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He is only loyal to USA, since China vs Islam will be beneficial for USA only.


I think he is loyal to his religion too. Every Chinese who left mainland convert their religion to Christianity. 
Same condition in Indonesia, it's very rare to find non-Christian Chinese here.


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## VelocuR

Original Muslims people are good and respect, today we see many fake Muslims under false names, everyone will blame them, make more hateful. 

Person who converted to different religion (i.e Islam) who pretended good person would do harm things. 

These fake actors mullahs guys are no doubt *paid* radicals and *free roaming* around in any city





sadly unsuspected Muslims people surrounded these mullahs didn't notice it.

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## Awesome

Regardless of what Okemos' personal agenda be, its clear both China and Pakistan cannot control terrorism without addressing the root causes of why terrorism exists.

Yes partly it may be that there is covert US support (although we don't have hard evidence for it). Its equally possible that these are the fringe lunatics subverting the message of Islam - fringe bombs kill just as much nonetheless... Some of them will just have to be killed. However a deep rooted resentment exists between the people of these regions with the Chinese government as well as the Pakistani government and a lot of it has to do with the financial condition of these people. This pool of resentment is where the lunatic fringe recruit from and kill both Pakistanis and Chinese. 

Hardly any American dies... But we are doing by the dozens every week. Yet America is at the forefront of this war? Pakistan and China must jointly take action on its western regions in a mix of military (in a controlled fashion not all out bombing and killing innocents) and social uplifting of the population.

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## Albatross

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



Muslims are spread across china and there are millions of them and as you know not all of them are doing such violence its only uighurs . And you will have to go into history of this to get your answer as it has nothing to do with Islam its about oppression tactics used by state against a group of people instead of opting for dialogue . China used military in Xinjiang: exiled Uighur leader | GlobalPost

When uighurs protested for the very first time to get their due share in Jobs and education like Han chinese if their voice would have been heard things would have been different but Chinese Govt opted to suppress them with force instead of giving them their due rights and from then this vicious cycle began in which both sides are killing each other .

21 killed in Uighur clashes in China - Australia Network News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

For instance in april this years riots both uighurs and Han people were killed but only uighurs were punished to death.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/world/asia/10xinjiang.html?ref=uighurschineseethnicgroup

Now dont you think those han chinese who killed innocent uighurs should have been punished as well ?

And the families of these executed would feel betrayed by the state and their sons would go for violence as well just to avenge their fathers and this is how this vicious cycle goes on .

The only solution is Chinese govt should go for dialogue with uighurs and give them their due rights and equal option for progress and jobs like han people otherwise it will continue like this and I would say again Islam has nothing to do with whatsoever .
There are many movements in world where suppressed ones rise against the governmnet like maoists, sikhs and kashmiries in india .The only solution is to give them their rights .

*There were thousands of Muslims through out history of China who fought as soldier for china e.g Zuo Baogui,Ma Ching-chiang,Su Chin-shou then there were muslim ministers like Ma Linyi who help spread education in china and hundreds of very respected scholars like Wang Daiyu.*

So you really cant blame Islam or its teachings for this uighurs problem it is created by wrong attitude of central government towards a certain group .


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## muse

iranigirl2 said:


> As a muslim , I totally agree with you. I'm so disgusted by these Turkic Muslims in China, I've the seen videos online, they are like savages.
> 
> 
> But I just want you to know that a lot minority Muslims also suffer from violent attacks. So, please don't assume all muslims are the same.
> 
> 
> Majority groups also suffer daily attacks by terrorists.
> 
> 
> I support the Chinese government to control these people. They are not acting like Muslims. They act like savages.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the Islamic world is going through a dark period right now.
> 
> Muslims are so easily manipulated by outside forces.
> 
> 
> Take a look at Syria, I call it Jihad for *Imam CIA.*
> 
> 
> *Poverty and ignorance breeds extremism*. The Chinese government should continue to develop the area , it might take a generation of two but things will get better.




No Miss, poverty and ignorance does not breed extremism, Religious interpretation breeds extremism - lets be honest, Extremist religious ideology comes from Saudi arabia and they are not poor, Osama was not poor, his deputy is a pediatrician, not poor - plain and ugly truth is that there is a factory producing interpretation that is hateful and hate filled and that facory is in Saudi Arabia and it has branches around the world.

Our Sympathy is with Chinese, just look at what these so called Muslims have done to Pakistan, or anywhere they are allowed to grow - Our message to China - Kill them all, then put pressure on govts like Saudi Arabia to stop the funding of terrorists, of extremist ideology known as Wahabi/Salafi ideology

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## cnleio

D@MN !!!!!!! Except kill innocents, there's nothing they can do ? Why not attack soldiers or armed police ?

Only the coward has the balls to kill defenseless civilians, TOO WEAK !!!


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## Parul

RazPaK said:


> Great!
> 
> I hope to see you voice your concerns to the fundamentalist hindus of your country.



You are no one to tell me what to do or what not to do. Carry on with your Whining and Rhetoric.

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## RazPaK

Awesome said:


> Regardless of what Okemos' personal agenda be, its clear both China and Pakistan cannot control terrorism without addressing the root causes of why terrorism exists.
> 
> Yes partly it may be that there is covert US support (although we don't have hard evidence for it). Its equally possible that these are the fringe lunatics subverting the message of Islam - fringe bombs kill just as much nonetheless... Some of them will just have to be killed. However a deep rooted resentment exists between the people of these regions with the Chinese government as well as the Pakistani government and a lot of it has to do with the financial condition of these people. This pool of resentment is where the lunatic fringe recruit from and kill both Pakistanis and Chinese.
> 
> Hardly any American dies... But we are doing by the dozens every week. Yet America is at the forefront of this war? Pakistan and China must jointly take action on its western regions in a mix of military (in a controlled fashion not all out bombing and killing innocents) and social uplifting of the population.




Dude, this is happening in higher frequency as long as Americans are in Afghanistan.


For China, their best bet is to support Pakistani foreign policy of Afghanistan.

Under Pakistani supervision, no more training grounds are allowed for anti-Chinese militants.

But if India is given the upper-hand, more and more instability will face China.


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## Jade

RazPaK said:


> Honestly Indian..
> 
> If you continue your transgressions, then you dotheads are no more than target practice.



In UK, I see black dotheads on Muslims....what are they?

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


>



She's not even in China.

There are still some pieces of sh*t hiding here somewhere, we need to find them and give them &#26432;&#21315;&#20992;&#12290;

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## Silverblaze

Many people would now come in and say that oh its nothing to do with religion. 

Well, it does have to with religion somewhat. These people cite Quranic verses to justify their actions. 

Now why are they so?

Two reasons,

1. Many govts in muslim countries actively supported extremist groups in other muslim countries to stave off certain threats. 

example, Nasirism was threatening Saudi Arabia and other countries and so they encouraged radical islamic groups. Pakistan supported Taliban. Iran supported Hezbollah. 

2. US and others actively and passively supported these radical religionists groups to crush adversaries such as Soviet Union. 

Now they have become powerful and disturb many others. 

My guess is that US once again has replied China after China refused to cooperate in the Snowden scandal.


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## ChineseTiger1986

scobydoo said:


> I think he is loyal to his religion too. Every Chinese who left mainland convert their religion to Christianity.
> Same condition in Indonesia, it's very rare to find non-Christian Chinese here.



I am still Atheist, don't give a damn about Christianity at all.

But many oversea Chinese are white worshipping slaves, it is sad, but true.

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## iranigirl2

What you guys need to understand is that their cause and actions are not purely Islamic but mostly inspired by Pan-Turks.

Pan-Turk believe they are a superior race, and Turkic nations have to be reunited. They really believe in their supremacy.. kind of like *Nazis.*

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## OrionHunter

*What are the major causes behind the underlying tension there between the Han and the Uyghur?
*
According to the prominent Uyghur human rights activist Rebiya Kadeer, it is not only because they are Muslims but because *"they have been treated inhumanely by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), not only from an economic standpoint but also human rights especially since the 1990s.*

In Chinas communist period (1949 to present), Muslims have had a complicated relationship with China. On the one hand, China created 10 so-called Muslim Minzu (nationalities) as part of a divide-and-rule political strategy, but on the other hand, *Muslims and Islam itself were targeted as enemies of socialism and communism, especially during the Cultural Revolution (1966-1976).*

Now, Muslims in China are facing a different situation, in the context of Chinas rise, and *Han nationalism (especially cultural nationalism) has begun to re-appear.* *China  which looks at the U.S. waging a war in Afghanistan (also against terrorism and extremism) not so far away  has used the perceived threat of terrorism to justify their actions in Xinjiang.*
*
Economically, the Uyghurs have little, if no access to the Chinese state economy*, which includes state corporations and the quasi-military Xinjiang Development and Construction Corps (Its members are farmers during peacetime and soldiers during wartime). Unlike the Han-populated coastal regions of the southeast, *the Uyghur economy in Xinjiang is almost dissociated from the Chinese economy.*

Culturally, in this Han dominated economy and polity, its hard for the Uyghurs to compete or even to get a job since most Uyghurs in southern Xinjiang speak little of the Han language (Chinese Mandarin) and thus have no hope of getting a position in the government or state economic units. Plus because of their religious and racial differences, the Uyghurs have been both openly and covertly constrained and discriminated against.

In a nutshell,* international and domestic political, ideological, economic, and cultural factors have resulted in tremendous misery for the Uyghurs, especially since the 1990s and thus resulted in a rebellion against the state.
*
What's the way forward? That's up to the Chinese government to figure out. The sooner, the better.


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## ChineseTiger1986

iranigirl2 said:


> What you guys need to understand that their cause and actions are not purely Islamic but mostly inspired by Pan-Turk.
> 
> Pan-Turk believe they are superior race , kind of like Nazis.



They actually killed many Hui Muslims and Tajik Muslims.

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## RazPaK

Parul said:


> You are no one to tell me what to do or what not to do. Carry on with your Whining and Rhetoric.



App larki hain, isliay main aapki izzat kartaa hun. If you want to support India, then curb the terrorist fundamentalist hindus of your nation before pointing fingers.


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## Okemos

Awesome said:


> Regardless of what Okemos' personal agenda be, its clear both China and Pakistan cannot control terrorism without addressing the root causes of why terrorism exists.
> 
> Yes partly it may be that there is covert US support (although we don't have hard evidence for it). Its equally possible that these are the fringe lunatics subverting the message of Islam - fringe bombs kill just as much nonetheless... Some of them will just have to be killed. However a deep rooted resentment exists between the people of these regions with the Chinese government as well as the Pakistani government and a lot of it has to do with the financial condition of these people. This pool of resentment is where the lunatic fringe recruit from and kill both Pakistanis and Chinese.
> 
> Hardly any American dies... But we are doing by the dozens every week. Yet America is at the forefront of this war? Pakistan and China must jointly take action on its western regions in a mix of military (in a controlled fashion not all out bombing and killing innocents) and social uplifting of the population.



Thanks. A rational mind should tackle the issue at hand, instead of making personal attacks and speculating my "so called" agenda. I have no agenda. I am a devoted Buddhist and my royalty belongs to no religion or political cause; I only wish China's peace and prosperity. 

In China, Islam has very negative reputation now thanks to those repeated attacks. Some of the China-flagged members here are probably of Islam conviction so they may want to downplay the issue and create harmonious appearance in this "Pakistani" forum. But this issue persists in China and you can easily see it if you know Chinese and browse any Chinese comments. If this issue is not resolved, it could negatively impact Sino-Pakistan relationship, esp. when a democratically elected government come to power in China.

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## RazPaK

If Chinese are listening.. India is causing your country problems from their embassies in Afghanistan. 


You can call me crazy, but I am simply stating the truth.


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## kurup

RazPaK said:


> Honestly Indian..
> 
> If you continue your transgressions, then you dotheads are no more than target practice.



We know , you are going to shoot us with the buttons in your keyboard .....

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## ChineseTiger1986

Okemos said:


> A rational mind should tackle the issue at hand, instead of making personal attacks and speculating my "so called" agenda. I have no agenda. I am a devoted Buddhist and my royalty belongs to no religion or political cause; I only wish China's peace and prosperity.
> 
> In China, Islam has very negative reputation now thanks to those repeated attacks. Some of the members here are probably of Islam conviction so they may want to downplay the issue and create harmonious appearance in this "Pakistani" forum. But this issue persists in China and you can easily see it if you know Chinese and browse any Chinese comments. * If this issue is not resolved, it could negatively impact Sinp-Pakistan relationship, esp. when a democratically elected government come to power in China.*



Those white-loving right-wing slaves like you are anti-Islam for sure.


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## Okemos

iranigirl2 said:


> What you guys need to understand is that their cause and actions are not purely Islamic but mostly inspired by Pan-Turks.
> 
> Pan-Turk believe they are a superior race, and Turkic nations have to be reunited. They really believe in their supremacy.. kind of like *Nazis.*



That could very much be also a major contributing factor. I remember Turkish president intentionally visited Xinjiang and was very warmly welcomed there.

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## Echo_419

People leave RazPak he hates Hindus simple as that 
No point in arguing with the Tough guy

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## RazPaK

Okemos said:


> A rational mind should tackle the issue at hand, instead of making personal attacks and speculating my "so called" agenda. I have no agenda. I am a devoted Buddhist and my royalty belongs to no religion or political cause; I only wish China's peace and prosperity.
> 
> In China, Islam has very negative reputation now thanks to those repeated attacks. Some of the members here are probably of Islam conviction so they may want to downplay the issue and create harmonious appearance in this "Pakistani" forum. But this issue persists in China and you can easily see it if you know Chinese and browse any Chinese comments. If this issue is not resolved, it could negatively impact Sinp-Pakistan relationship, esp. when a democratically elected government come to power in China.



If Chinese want a problem with Pakistan, then we are ready.


Fortunately Chinese in general are not as foolish as you, with your claims and ignorance about the issues.


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## MandarK

RazPaK said:


> If Chinese are listening.. India is causing your country problems from their embassies in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> You can call me crazy, but I am simply stating the truth.




Last time they asked Pakistanis to take action against terrorists

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## nastikan

This is very sad. Hope china takes firm measures to curb this menace.


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## iranigirl2

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They actually killed many Hui Muslims and Tajik Muslims.



They are savages. I have no respect for them. If they have legitimate grievances they would work with the Chinese government, not go on a savage killing spree.

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## Awesome

Okemos said:


> A rational mind should tackle the issue at hand, instead of making personal attacks and speculating my "so called" agenda. I have no agenda. I am a devoted Buddhist and my royalty belongs to no religion or political cause; I only wish China's peace and prosperity.


Just to be clear, I was making a similar point that your "agenda" is inconsequential to this discussion. A question on your motives was raised by others not me.



> In China, Islam has very negative reputation now thanks to those repeated attacks. Some of the members here are probably of Islam conviction so they may want to downplay the issue and create harmonious appearance in this "Pakistani" forum. But this issue persists in China and you can easily see it if you know Chinese and browse any Chinese comments. If this issue is not resolved, it could negatively impact Sinp-Pakistan relationship, esp. when a democratically elected government come to power in China.



I understand that. I don't wish to downplay it, but actually highlight it. In Pakistan there is a similar sense that these attacks are ruining Sino-Pak relationship. However its something both China and Pak government are officially working together on - without much success.

About the last bit of elected government - that's inconsequential to Pakistanis. We maintain ties at government and people to people level.

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## RazPaK

nastikan said:


> This is very sad. Hope china takes firm measures to curb this menace.



The menace that you bhartees are supporting with the eastern bloc?

Russia is not as strong as it used to be.




Hilarious.


There will be no division of China.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

iranigirl2 said:


> They are savages. I have no respect for them. If they have legitimate grievances they would work with the Chinese government, not go on a savage killing spree.



The radical Pan-Turkism is dead, even Turkey is tired of this bullsh!t, but these terrorists are getting feeded by Uncle Sam, so they have to follow his order.

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## Wholegrain

Be warned, there is an anti Muslim troll called ephone who ***** into every thread about Islam and starts insulting Muslims. Ignore his posts and report.

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## ChineseTiger1986

RazPaK said:


> If Chinese want a problem with Pakistan, then we are ready.
> 
> 
> Fortunately Chinese in general are not as foolish as you, with your claims and ignorance about the issues.



It would be sad if 1.3 billion of Chinese are getting represented by this CIA paid troll.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Awesome said:


> I understand that. I don't wish to downplay it, but actually highlight it. In Pakistan there is a similar sense that these attacks are ruining Sino-Pak relationship. However its something both China and Pak government are officially working together on - without much success.



Recently a video came out on the net regarding ETIM militants training in one of the mountainous regions of Pakistan.

Can't you guys just sweep in and wipe those guys out? Or better yet, capture them alive and send them to us, so we can personally put a bullet in each one's head.

I don't know if Nawaz Sharif would approve such an operation?

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## nastikan

RazPaK said:


> If Chinese are listening.. India is causing your country problems from their embassies in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> You can call me crazy, but I am simply stating the truth.



People have died. Show some respect. It's not the time for your low grade , obvious conspiracies .


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## Gold1010

Did I miss something, can someone link me?


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## RazPaK

As long as India is in Afghanistan, expect trouble in China.


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## ChineseTiger1986

RazPaK said:


> As long as India is in Afghanistan, expect trouble in China.



As long as USA stays in Central Asia, there will be no eternal peace.

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## Chinese-Dragon

We got several South East Asian countries to extradite their own citizens to China for execution, in retaliation for the shooting of our fisherman on the Mekong river.

I guess it would be easier with ETIM members.

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## VelocuR

it is a bit strange, Balouchistan attacks last week and now Xinjiang are becoming problems. Who is behind the scenes or who devil is?

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## Rana4pak

Rip indeed a sad incident one thing is sure india is main sponcer of this terrorist activity viva afg


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## Icewolf

China is very hard on terrorists, Pakistan should follow China's way to how to get rid of terroirists

Btw this has nothing do with islam

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## PlanetWarrior

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As long as USA stays in Central Asia, there will be no eternal peace.



Reading your posts on this thread, it may perhaps be more appropriate for you to change your profile pic to an ostrich. You know, that bird which buries its head in the sand and refuses to acknowledge reality.


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## ChineseTiger1986

RaptorRX707 said:


> it is a bit strange, Balouchistan attacks last week and now Xinjiang are becoming problems. Who is behind the scenes or who devil is?



Who else? The champion of the 'democratic' countries who loves to listen on people's private messages and cracks into their email.

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## shuntmaster

itaskol said:


> 10 terrorist killed till now



Are you sure they are not Shaheeds who were doing jihad and freedom fighting?

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## kurup

RazPaK said:


> The menace that you bhartees are supporting with the eastern bloc?
> 
> Russia is not as strong as it used to be.



Is that why china blamed pakistan based terrorist creating problems in the past .

Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## RazPaK

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As long as USA stays in Central Asia, there will be no eternal peace.



Indians pay mercs to support Xinjiang rebels.


You Chinese will not realize, because you do not know the Indians.


We Pakistanis have almost got them out. 

They want to use their new call center money to upset different nations.

We will not allow it.

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## kurup

Rana4pak said:


> Rip indeed a sad incident one thing is sure india is main sponcer of this terrorist activity viva afg



Bury your head deep in the sand .

China asks Pakistan to hand over Uighur terrorists - The Hindu


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## Icewolf

kurup said:


> Bury your head deep in the sand .
> 
> China asks Pakistan to hand over Uighur terrorists - The Hindu
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yesss .....
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204781804577266952254783484.html



Spicy masala Indian news doesnt know that Indian govt is sponsoring seperatist groups in Pakistan & China

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As long as USA stays in Central Asia, there will be no eternal peace.



The USA is the root cause of all instability in the Central Asian region.



kurup said:


> Is that why china blamed pakistan based terrorist creating problems in the past .
> 
> Xinjiang unrest: China blames unrest on Pakistan-trained terrorists &#8211; The Express Tribune



No, we never blamed the Pakistani state. They are getting trained in the LAWLESS mountainous regions of Pakistan, obviously not with support from the Pakistani government.

That's why I asked Awesome why don't we just get permission to wipe them all out.

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## PlanetWarrior

RazPaK said:


> Indians pay mercs to support Xinjiang rebels.
> 
> 
> You Chinese will not realize, because you do not know the Indians.
> 
> 
> We Pakistanis have almost got them out.
> 
> They want to use their new call center money to upset different nations.
> 
> We will not allow it.



Your sense of humor can be entertaining at times. It however remains tasteless when you mock a situation where people are being killed at the hands of terrorists. I implore you to control your posts in those instances


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## kurup

Icewolf said:


> Spicy masala Indian news doesnt know that Indian govt is sponsoring seperatist groups in Pakistan & China



I have provided pakistani and international news agencies also ..... Now cry us a river ...

Chinese Official: Xinjiang Militants Have Ties to Pakistan Groups - WSJ.com


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## muse

Icewolf said:


> China is very hard on terrorists, Pakistan should follow China's way to how to get rid of terroirists
> 
> *Btw this has nothing do with islam*




This defensive and insecure attitude is part of the problem - this refusal to acknowledge that something very very significant has happened - when people no longer have any control over an ideology that animates them, that forms a central axis in their culture, then are lost, they are under attack and if they refuse to acknowledge it, they will certainly lose.

These terrorists believe and tell the world that they are fighting for Islam, when insecure and confused people say "this has nothing to do with Islam" they are in effect telling people lies, they are being dishonest with themselves and with others. 

So what are left with? We are left with the reality that there is a war going on over what is Islam and the terrorist is winning because some people do not have the courage to say" Yes, we have a problem and the only way to solve the problem is not just to kill the terrorist but destroy the factory that produces the ideology of the terrorist and in this way reclaim, and save Islam from terrorist

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## cnleio

Sadness ... i didn't read any news in China internet now, still no any domestic news agnecy report the terrorist attack in XinJiang. 
Oh...Sh!t, Chian everywhere looks 'VERY GOOD'

F.U.C.K U !


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## Chinese-Dragon

kurup said:


> I have provided pakistani and international news agencies also ..... Now cry us a river ...
> 
> Chinese Official: Xinjiang Militants Have Ties to Pakistan Groups - WSJ.com



Even better for us, it means that those groups are within our reach.

The question is will Pakistan let us come in and wipe them all out, I'm waiting for what Awesome has to say.


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## Silverblaze

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The USA is the root cause of all instability in the Central Asian region.
> 
> 
> 
> No, we never blamed the Pakistani state. They are getting trained in the LAWLESS mountainous regions of Pakistan, obviously not with support from the Pakistani government.
> 
> That's why I asked Awesome why don't we just get permission to wipe them all out.



You honour your camaraderie with Pakistan, but facts are saddening. 

The tribal regions of Pakistan are home to many foreign extremists who lived here with impunity. The state of Pakistan is weak and at times unwilling, so others also take advantage. 

Pakistan cannot go after these terrorists because it can disturb elements who live here who are pro Pakistan and are Pakistan's assets. 

Its complicated. However, what Pakistan can do is to increase monitoring of the borders.

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## kurup

Chinese-Dragon said:


> No, we never blamed the Pakistani state. They are getting trained in the LAWLESS mountainous regions of Pakistan, obviously not with support from the Pakistani government.
> 
> That's why I asked Awesome why don't we just get permission to wipe them all out.



Maybe you are right .

What you are talking about is pakistani terrorist organistaions . Most of therm have a unholy relationship with their government.

I am just providing proof showing that these terrorist are from pakistan and just countering his baseless allegations against by country .


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## Wholegrain

Okemos said:


> Thanks. A rational mind should tackle the issue at hand, instead of making personal attacks and speculating my "so called" agenda. I have no agenda. I am a devoted Buddhist and my royalty belongs to no religion or political cause; I only wish China's peace and prosperity.
> 
> In China, Islam has very negative reputation now thanks to those repeated attacks. Some of the China-flagged members here are probably of Islam conviction so they may want to downplay the issue and create harmonious appearance in this "Pakistani" forum. But this issue persists in China and you can easily see it if you know Chinese and browse any Chinese comments. If this issue is not resolved, it could negatively impact Sino-Pakistan relationship, esp. when a democratically elected government come to power in China.



Most Chinese do not know anything about Buddhist teachings and scriptures. I wasn't taught any of it. The vast majority of people in China would not call themselves Buddhist.

The only Muslim member from China here is the mod Hu Songshan. And you live in America LOL, the only interaction you have had with China for the past few years is reading internet comments online. The same thing we are doing here.



Okemos said:


> I totally agree with you. Xinjiaing's problem is totally CCP's own making, starting from Hu Yaobang in 1980s. Most Chinese know that. Hu had a rosy dreamy picture of ethnic harmony and overly empowered ethnic minorities by creating so called autonomous regions even though some of those regions are Han-dominant, and &#20004;&#23569;&#19968;&#23485;&#12288;(leniency to minority criminals)



This is not what I meant troll. I meant that the Uyghur autonomous region should only be in the Tarim Basin instead of the entire Xinjiang. Stop trying to hijack the topic. I was talking about the 1950s and even further back whenthe Soviets created the Uyghur ethnicity.


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## muse

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Even better for us, it means that those groups are within our reach.
> 
> The question is will Pakistan let us come in and wipe them all out, I'm waiting for what Awesome has to say.



But there in the reach of Pakistani forces -- WHY the Pakistanis forces are not going after them and killing them?? I would really like a straight answer to this -


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## PlanetWarrior

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Even better for us, it means that those groups are within our reach.
> 
> The question is will Pakistan let us come in and wipe them all out, I'm waiting for what Awesome has to say.



Doesn't matter what Awesome has to say mate. Try entering Pakistani territory to carry out your strategic pre-emptive strikes (even with the blessing of the Pakistani establishment) and watch that nation turn against you. Ask your trading partner the Yanks if you don't believe me


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## RazPaK

muse said:


> But there in the reach of Pakistani forces -- WHY the Pakistanis forces are not going after them and killing them?? I would really like a straight answer to this -



Don't be a retard old man.

Our Army is not that useless.



These are attacks by foreigners.


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## Chinese-Dragon

PlanetWarrior said:


> Doesn't matter what Awesome has to say mate. Try entering Pakistani territory to carry out your strategic pre-emptive strikes (even with the blessing of the Pakistani establishment) and watch that nation turn against you. Ask your trading partner the Yanks if you don't believe me



I'm sure the Pakistani Army has more than enough capability to wipe out those ETIM terrorists themselves. Without us needing permission to set a foot on their territory.

But we'll want any survivors extradited back to China of course.

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## Okemos

cnleio said:


> Sadness ... i didn't read any news in China internet now, still no any domestic news agnecy report the terrorist attack in XinJiang.
> Oh...Sh!t, Chian everywhere looks 'VERY GOOD'
> 
> F.U.C.K U !



lol, the news was reported briefly in Sina but I believe was deleted? The CCP government is so insecure. Oh well, this cover-up really makes my angry and dishonor those innocent victims.


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## Aka123

Where is India coming into picture here. Definitely India doesn't interfere in China's internal matters. So please provide some evidence before pulling India into everything. If people can share some articles based on India's involvement, it would be great. Some links can be shared for us to see as well.




Rana4pak said:


> Chythia just wait when amercia leave afg every body in the region fcuk u ppl dont worry what you guys r doing in afg, new delhi will have to pay a heavy price. ?from khalistan to manipur every thing will come into reality! See what will happen after 2014, ,,,,even iran will give u middle finger just wait




Even we are waiting for that time.


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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> But there in the reach of Pakistani forces -- WHY the Pakistanis forces are not going after them and killing them?? I would really like a straight answer to this -



Do you remember the Red mosque incident and what that lead to?

@#104

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## muse

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm sure the Pakistani Army has more than enough capability to wipe out those ETIM terrorists themselves. Without us needing permission to set a foot on their territory.
> 
> But we'll want them extradited back to China of course.



I agree 100% - So why are they not doing this?


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## JayAtl

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm sure the Pakistani Army has more than enough capability to wipe out those ETIM terrorists themselves. Without us needing permission to set a foot on their territory.



So if this is not the first time such an terrorist attack has taken place. China had warned Pakistan before...so why do you think the Pak army has not wiped them out?

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## itaskol

muse said:


> But there in the reach of Pakistani forces -- WHY the Pakistanis forces are not going after them and killing them?? I would really like a straight answer to this -


I dont know whos army is pakistani army. pls tell me.

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## Icewolf

JayAtl said:


> So if this is not the first time such an terrorist attack has taken place. China had warned Pakistan before...so why do you think the Pak army has not wiped them out?



Because you cant wipe out terrorists without wiping out a civilians population.

This isn't the 1800's anymore!

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## Chinese-Dragon

muse said:


> I agree 100% - So why are they not doing this?



I wouldn't know, though I guess it must have something to do with domestic politics.

If they don't want to do it for whatever reason, then maybe they could just let in a few of our operatives in secret, and just look in the other direction for a while.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Okemos said:


> lol, the news was reported briefly in Sina but I believe was deleted? The CCP government is so insecure. Oh well, this cover-up really makes my angry and dishonor those innocent victims.



No one cares about your crocodile tears, next time i will request Hu Songshan to lock down the flame topic like this.

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## muse

Silverblaze said:


> Do you remember the Red mosque incident and what that lead to?
> 
> @#104



So what exactly are you saying, please say it openly so everyone can know


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## Wholegrain

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm sure the Pakistani Army has more than enough capability to wipe out those ETIM terrorists themselves. Without us needing permission to set a foot on their territory.
> 
> But we'll want any survivors extradited back to China of course.



The ETIM members are embedded with thousands of Tehreek e Taliban and Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan fighters. In fact, the TTP leaders give the ETIM and IMU orders, not the other way around, the TTP's interests take priority over ETIM and IMU interests.


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## Okemos

Wholegrain said:


> Most Chinese do not know anything about Buddhist teachings and scriptures. I wasn't taught any of it. The vast majority of people in China would not call themselves Buddhist.
> 
> The only Muslim member from China here is the mod Hu Songshan. And you live in America LOL, the only interaction you have had with China for the past few years is reading internet comments online. The same thing we are doing here.



We have sizable Chinese community here and we even have a Buddhist temple in a small town in the Midwest. Can you believe it? Majority of residents are from Taiwan though. If i were you, I would refrain from speculating on other people's lives if you are not so sure. Also I don't think I need report to you how often I go back to China to make me sound credible. 

Again, one basic tenet of debate is no ad hominem attack.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Chinese-Dragon said:


> There are still some pieces of sh*t hiding here somewhere, we need to find them and give them &#26432;&#21315;&#20992;&#12290;



I'm not even joking. I would do it to them myself, if the Government let me.


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## Wholegrain

Okemos said:


> lol, the news was reported briefly in Sina but I believe was deleted? The CCP government is so insecure. Oh well, this cover-up really makes my angry and dishonor those innocent victims.



You are a very bad liar. It appeared in the news in China.

&#26032;&#30086;&#37167;&#21892;&#21439;&#26292;&#21147;&#24656;&#24598;&#20107;&#20214;&#33268;27&#20154;&#27515;&#20129; &#26292;&#24466;&#38452;&#35851;&#26333;&#20809;&#30127;&#29378;&#26432;&#35686;&#23519;10&#20154;&#20987;&#27609;

Keep trolling mate, your doing a swell job at exposing yourself.

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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> So what exactly are you saying, please say it openly so everyone can know



mentioned it in post 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/260484-oh-well-terrorists-xinjiang-killed-17-people-7.html#post4453470


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## RazPaK

In the past Pakistani government has reached out to China and Xinjiang more than once.

We explained to those Turks that militancy is not the way.

The Indians, spend their money on hurting China through their networks in Afghanistan, rather than spending it on their poor.

They always conveniently use the name Pakistan while working with their assets in Afghanistan.

The Indians are close with the Northern Alliance. 

Turkmens, Tajiks, and Hazars. 

All Turkik people. 

Chinese members here can believe in Indian fairy tales, but fortunately Chinese government does not.

The Indians hire mercenaries, and try to have them label themselves off as Pakistanis.

Hilarious. Indians find some pocket money from their call center jobs and hire locals. God knows they can't do **** on their own.

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## PlanetWarrior

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I'm sure the Pakistani Army has more than enough capability to wipe out those ETIM terrorists themselves. Without us needing permission to set a foot on their territory.
> 
> But we'll want any survivors extradited back to China of course.



Offcourse the Pakistani army has the capability to do so. They have the capability to eradicate all terrorists from their territory. The important question remains whether they have the will or the desire to do so. These are their strategic assets. Why should they interfere with a possible weapon in the future? Remember if China gets nasty with Pakistan in the future, Pakistan will require an unconventional weapon to wield against China. Welcome to the world of realpolitik when it comes to Pakistan. We know them. You will learn about them

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## JayAtl

Icewolf said:


> Because you cant wipe out terrorists without wiping out a civilians population.
> 
> This isn't the 1800's anymore!



wow... so you planning a nuclear bomb drop on them or is your army not capable of killing terrorists with minimum civilian casualties? 
@Chinese-Dragon you have your answer I guess from Ice wolf


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## ChineseTiger1986

RazPaK said:


> In the past Pakistani government has reached out to China and Xinjiang more than once.
> 
> We explained to those Turks that militancy is not the way.
> 
> The Indians, spend their money on hurting China through their networks in Afghanistan, rather than spending it on their poor.
> 
> They always conveniently use the name Pakistan while working with their assets in Afghanistan.
> 
> The Indians are close with the Northern Alliance.
> 
> Turkmens, Tajiks, and Hazars.
> 
> All Turkik people.
> 
> Chinese members here can believe in Indian fairy tales, but fortunately Chinese government does not.
> 
> The Indians hire mercenaries, and try to have them label themselves off as Pakistanis.
> 
> Hilarious. Indians find some pocket money from their call center jobs and hir locals. God knows they can't do **** on their own.



If India wants to do something foolish, then China's armed force will be ready to take on New Delhi from Aksai Chin in one day.

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## muse

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I wouldn't know, though I guess it must have something to do with domestic politics.
> 
> If they don't want to do it for whatever reason, then maybe they could just let in a few of our operatives in secret, and just look in the other direction for a while.




The real reason? There is only one reason, they do not think of them as terrorists, they call them "brothers" - look Tiger, I'n Pakistani and I'm telling you that Pakistan armed forces, especially Army, is very "sympathetic" to all islamic terrorists, it does not matter how many Pakistanis are killed by the terrorists, notice that the army will not clean up the mess, it says that it is a job for the police.

Some say this is unfair - but all I am asking is prove me wrong kill the terrorists, kill their funders, kill their ideology -- and yet in the last 12 years the army has refused to do this - so what are people to think??

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## Okemos

Wholegrain said:


> You are a very bad liar. It appeared in the news in China.
> 
> &#26032;&#30086;&#37167;&#21892;&#21439;&#26292;&#21147;&#24656;&#24598;&#20107;&#20214;&#33268;27&#20154;&#27515;&#20129; &#26292;&#24466;&#38452;&#35851;&#26333;&#20809;&#30127;&#29378;&#26432;&#35686;&#23519;10&#20154;&#20987;&#27609;
> 
> Keep trolling mate, your doing a swell job at exposing yourself.



I was responding to the guy that said the news was not reported. I even used question mark. Get real life instead of nitpicking.


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## Chinese-Dragon

PlanetWarrior said:


> Offcourse the Pakistani army has the capability to do so. They have the capability to eradicate all terrorists from their territory. The important question remains whether they have the will or the desire to do so. These are their strategic assets. Why should they interfere with a possible weapon in the future? Remember if China gets nasty with Pakistan in the future, Pakistan will require an unconventional weapon to wield against China. Welcome to the world of realpolitik when it comes to Pakistan. We know them. You will learn about them



And what kind of f*cking incompetent officials in the Xinjiang government hasn't found a way to stop them coming back in.

It really just pisses me off so much.



muse said:


> The real reason? There is only one reason, they do not think of them as terrorists, they call them "brothers" - look Tiger, I'n Pakistani and I'm telling you that Pakistan armed forces, especially Army, is very "sympathetic" to all islamic terrorists, it does not matter how many Pakistanis are killed by the terrorists, notice that the army will not clean up the mess, it says that it is a job for the police.
> 
> Some say this is unfair - but all I am asking is prove me wrong kill the terrorists, kill their funders, kill their ideology -- and yet in the last 12 years the army has refused to do this - so what are people to think??



Muse buddy I'm Dragon, not Tiger.

Tiger is our good friend from Shanghai.

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## cnleio

Okemos said:


> lol, the news was reported briefly in Sina but I believe was deleted? The CCP government is so insecure. Oh well, this cover-up really makes my angry and dishonor those innocent victims.


All deleted, including posts on TianYa and CJDBY forums... ALL GONE !!!

It's very sadness !


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## sree45

A terrorist has no religion. A person who kills an innocent person who dint harm him is an insult to the GOD who created him.

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## Okemos

cnleio said:


> All deleted, including posts on TianYa and CJDBY forums... ALL GONE !!!
> 
> It's very sadness !



lol you could be called trolling by some guy here! People love to bury their heads in sand and call others trolls.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> All deleted, including posts on TianYa and CJDBY forums... ALL GONE !!!
> 
> It's very sadness !



Heck, CJDBY is just a sh!tty military forum with full of military illiterates, who cares what those sh!tty mods think?

Go to Meiyanjunshi, this forum has leaked the information of Xinjiang attack on June back in few weeks ago, yet they haven't deleted this news.

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## kurup

RazPaK said:


> In the past Pakistani government has reached out to China and Xinjiang more than once.
> 
> We explained to those Turks that militancy is not the way.
> 
> The Indians, spend their money on hurting China through their networks in Afghanistan, rather than spending it on their poor.
> 
> They always conveniently use the name Pakistan while working with their assets in Afghanistan.
> 
> The Indians are close with the Northern Alliance.
> 
> Turkmens, Tajiks, and Hazars.
> 
> All Turkik people.
> 
> Chinese members here can believe in Indian fairy tales, but fortunately Chinese government does not.
> 
> The Indians hire mercenaries, and try to have them label themselves off as Pakistanis.
> 
> Hilarious. Indians find some pocket money from their call center jobs and hire locals. God knows they can't do **** on their own.



Nice story .

When caught in an act blame your opposition . 

Don't you have any shame left to blabber something without proof . I know you are a pakistani . So that must not be difficult .

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## Pakistanisage

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!





Brother, on the XINJIANG issue Pakistani nation is with China.

But the problem in XINJIANG is not a religious issue, it is a Political issue.

These people are not known to be very religious and neither are they fighting for Religion.

The uighurs are Turkish race and their demand is to form EASTERN TURKISTAN.

Now how is religion involved in a Political Problem ?

They want to fight for their Independence and form Turkish country. They do not fight for religion.

We Pakistanis do not support them and our Government has made it clear that we are with Chinese Government on this issue.

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## Farooq

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



Your question is quite naive. How can you blame Muslims or Islam when Muslims themselves are victims of terrorism?

Why don't you question the wahabis funded by KSA who are creating havoc throughout the world for Muslims and and non-Muslims ?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Farooq said:


> Your question is quite naive. How can you blame Muslims or Islam when Muslims themselves are victims of terrorism?
> 
> Why don't you question the wahabis funded by KSA who are creating havoc throughout the world for Muslims and and non-Muslims ?



Bro, he is probably a supporter of the US founded radical Islamists himself, but for now he wanna see China vs Islam (including the normal Muslims), so it would be beneficial for his US master.

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## JayAtl

RazPaK said:


> Don't question my citizenship dothead.



dothead is just asking the bukha boy about your intention ... not your citizenship.


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## t_for_talli

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> has nothing to do with Islam as a religion
> 
> it's an internal issue of PRC,but an issue being exploited by outsiders in order to damage the country; kind of like Buddhist tibetans
> 
> if Islam was the issue, then majority of Pakistanis (your neighbour) would not be having positive view of Chinese to the east....do remember that on 2 occasions, Islamic Republic of Pakistan sent Islamic delegation to China to convince people in that province to stop their violence and uprisings
> 
> at any rate, RIP to the dead; such attacks arent justifiable at all



ok this has nothing to do with Islam

But wat about violence in
Syria?
Palistine?
Afghanistan?
Lybia?
Iraq?
Kashmir?
Pakistan- Karachi, Baluchistan, Waziristan?
Egypt?
Bangladesh?
Lebanon? 

There is only one common link connecting the above dots- Its religions extremism

I am not criticizing any religion but the way Islam is being used by some people for their interest is not good for the global community.
And Muslims need to think rationally rather blindly believing and acting on some crazy Mulla's fatwa

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## Farooq

Chinese-Dragon said:


> She's not even in China.
> 
> There are still some pieces of sh*t hiding here somewhere, we need to find them and give them &#26432;&#21315;&#20992;&#12290;



she takes a picture with Bush and somehow Islam is to blame for this? LOL!

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## kurup

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Even better for us, it means that those groups are within our reach.
> 
> The question is will Pakistan let us come in and wipe them all out, I'm waiting for what Awesome has to say.



I don't think you are getting an answer for that . Especially since you are the spear header of the 'dharmic alliance' ....

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## muse

sree45 said:


> A terrorist has no religion. A person who kills an innocent person who dint harm him is an insult to the GOD who created him.




Every Islamist terrorist asserts Allah hu Akbar and yet you and say such incredible things -- I understand you are confused and think that you are defending Islam -- Islam can be best defended by asserting that the terrorist is some one out of Islam, that the terrorist ideology that is Wahabi/Salafi is not Islam -

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## Farooq

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Bro, he is probably a supporter of the US founded radical Islamists himself, but for now he wanna see China vs Islam (including the normal Muslims), so it would be beneficial for his US master.



yes brother.. quite nonsensical to question Islam given the current global events. ,i.e, the war in Syria & Libya where the Wahhabi terrorists and the West are allies

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## blood

funny there is a terrorist attack in china and pakistanies are talking about indians , is it so hard to remember from where does the entire sh@t comes from?


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## Silverblaze

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The CIA paid troll is blaming this on Islam, while China knows the champion of the PRISM democracy is behind this.



Its not that simple. 

People that attacked the police station say that they do not like chinese restrictions on their culture. 

These feelings are exploited by many and also the fact that some members of these hardcore groups are in the border regions of Pakistan-afghanistan. 

the solution is to win the hearts and minds of common people and help pakistan to eradicate armed groups.


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## Gold1010

R.i.p hopefully China take swift action.

On a side note I'm enjoying watching Razpak panic and trying to blame a knife wielding mob on India.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Silverblaze said:


> Its not that simple.
> 
> People that attacked the police station say that they do not like chinese restrictions on their culture.
> 
> These feelings are exploited by many and also the fact that some members of these hardcore groups are in the border regions of Pakistan-afghanistan.
> 
> the solution is to win the hearts and minds of common people and help pakistan to eradicate armed groups.



Uighurs are still predominantly Muslims, while China has never enforced any law to ban the Burqa, does those western countries have the shame to criticize China's law about Islam?!


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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CIA was definitely the mastermind behind this, our military insiders told us in last month something will happen in Xinjiang in June, now it seems they were completely right.





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Heck, CJDBY is just a sh!tty military forum with full of military illiterates, who cares what those sh!tty mods think?
> 
> Go to Meiyanjunshi, this forum has leaked the information of Xinjiang attack on June back in few weeks ago, yet they haven't deleted this news.



&#20804;&#24351;&#65292;don't you think this is a big problem?

If we already had a tip off beforehand, why couldn't we stop it? Isn't something seriously wrong there?


----------



## muse

Silverblaze said:


> Its not that simple.
> 
> People that attacked the police station say that they do not like chinese restrictions on their culture.
> 
> These feelings are exploited by many and also the fact that some members of these hardcore groups are in the border regions of Pakistan-afghanistan.
> 
> the solution is to win the hearts and minds of common people and help pakistan to eradicate armed groups.



Win hearts and minds???? This is a question of law and lawlessness -- We do not seek to win the heart and the mind of the lawless, we seek to punish lawlessness -- Please do not be confused -- do you really seek to win the heart and mind of a thief or a murderer or someone who violates laws??


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## Silverblaze

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Uighurs are still predominantly Muslims, while China has never enforced the law to ban the Burqa, does those western countries have the shame to criticize China's law about Islam?!



how does west fit into this? Leave those idiots, they are negotiating with the people they have fought for 12 years. 

the thing is that China does exercise some restrictions which does not go well. China has developed these places with amazing diligence. but freedom is still how you say constrained. 

the solution is to win hearts and mind. These people have more in common with Chinese than anyone else. and at the same time stop armed groups from using these excuses.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Silverblaze said:


> how does west fit into this? Leave those idiots, they are negotiating with the people they have fought for 12 years.
> 
> the thing is that China does exercise some restrictions which does not go well. China has developed these places with amazing diligence. but freedom is still how you say constrained.
> 
> the solution is to win hearts and mind. These people have more in common with Chinese than anyone else. and at the same time stop armed groups from using these excuses.



A video speaks more than million words, now i see you as a Pakistani version of Okemos.


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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> Win hearts and minds???? This is a question of law and lawlessness -- We do not seek to win the heart and the mind of the lawless, we seek to punish lawlessness -- Please do not be confused -- do you really seek to win the heart and mind of a thief or a murderer or someone who violates laws??



Was it the same case of lawlessness during 1971?

Listen, you can't just roll out tanks and crush the dissidents if they have a genuine demand. Give people freedom and make it clear that violence would not be tolerated.


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## Naya_Pakistan

it's not islam, it's misunderstanding of islam


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## Silverblaze

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> A video speaks more than million words, now i see you as a Pakistani version of Okemos.



One thing which I don't like is personal comments and comparisons. If you disagree, disagree on facts. 

China Stifles Uighur Muslims on Religion - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net
China bans Uighur Muslims from fasting during Ramadan | ummid.com

Don't want to embarrass anyone, but you must fight extremists as well as win common people to your side and not leave them to be exploited by extremists.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

JayAtl said:


> then a brown boy like me will ask you, why is yellow boy like you being treated like sheep in your country? a blind resident woke up and walked off and laughed at you.



Hey, the US government is probably tapping the private messages between you and your girlfriend, better watch out. 



Silverblaze said:


> One thing which I don't like is personal comments and comparisons. If you disagree, disagree on facts.
> 
> China Stifles Uighur Muslims on Religion - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net
> China bans Uighur Muslims from fasting during Ramadan | ummid.com
> 
> Don't want to embarrass anyone, but you must fight extremists as well as win common people to your side and not leave them to be exploited by extremists.



Uighurs are still Muslims, they didn't convert into anything else, so your sources have no concrete evidence at all.

Even the Uighur soldiers recruited by the PLA (an Atheist military armed force) are still allowed to retain their Islamic faith, China is truly making an exception for them.

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## Silverblaze

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Even the Uighur soldiers recruited by the PLA (an Atheist military armed force) are still allowed to retain their Islamic faith, China is truly making the exception for them.



this is good and carry on and don't even hesitate monitoring some muslim suspects. You have to keep them away from extremist propaganda and integrate them and continue with the care you show for them. 

Singapore is a good example.


----------



## muse

Silverblaze said:


> Was it the same case of lawlessness during 1971?
> 
> Listen, you can't just roll out tanks and crush the dissidents if they have a genuine demand. Give people freedom and make it clear that violence would not be tolerated.



This isnot a popular revolt this is terrorism


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## Wholegrain

We should not place blame on Turkic peoples like certain posters like iajj does, if he comes he he will splurge about dozens posts hurling abuse at them. Only Pan Turkists and Pan turanists should be attacked.

The Salars are a Turkic Muslim people living in Qinghai province in China. 

During World War 2, Salars along with Dongxiang (Mongolian Muslims), Hui Muslims, Qinghai Tibetans and Han Chinese served in a division under the Muslim General Ma Biao and fought against Japan. Ma Biao served under General Ma Bufang,

??????--?-?-??

In "The Marching Wind", Leonard Francis Clark describes his expedition mountainerring in Qinghai and he met Salars in Ma Bufang's army who killed many Japanese in battle.

Salars and Hui in the Chinese srmy also fought against the Soviet backed Uyghur Ili National Army in the Ili Rebellion. The Salar General Han Youwen served against the Uyghurs, Soviets and Mongols during the war and during the Beitashan incident. He later became one of the vice charimen in Xinjiang after he defected to the CPC after the Civil War ended.

Han Youwen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Âí³ÊÏéÔÚÀÏÂú³ÇÖ®Ê®£¨Ô*´´£© - È»Ò²µÄÈÕÖ¾ - ÍøÒ×²©¿Í


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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> This isnot a popular revolt this is terrorism



Could be. 

Mukti Bahini was a terrorist entity, but enjoyed sympathy amongst many. Why? Note: sympathy does not mean active participation. 

Just as Pakistanis have sympathy for Afghan taliban even though sometimes they commit some very bad things. 

Listen, 

Do you want to finish the endless supply for extremists?

Finish the reason they are fighting for.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Silverblaze said:


> Listen,
> 
> Do you want to finish the endless supply for extremists?
> 
> Finish the reason they are fighting for.



There is no way we can accept ETIM's demands.

It's just not possible, China won't separate again without a nuclear war.


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## muse

Silverblaze said:


> Could be.
> 
> Mukti Bahini was a terrorist entity, but enjoyed sympathy amongst many. Why? Note: sympathy does not mean active participation.
> 
> Just as Pakistanis have sympathy for Afghan taliban even though sometimes they commit some very bad things.
> 
> Listen,
> 
> Do you want to finish the endless supply for extremists?
> 
> Finish the reason they are fighting for.



Yeah, we should give up and die or convert to Wahabism -- I understand that it makes a good sound bite but it does not make sense -- If the response to acts of terrorism is to give in to terrorism, then whats the point of order and law - so the Chinese, the American and the israeli should do the same to any population and then tell them if you want me to stop, you have to give me a reason to stop - good sound bite not good sense


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## Silverblaze

Chinese-Dragon said:


> There is no way we can accept ETIM's demands.
> 
> It's just not possible, China won't separate again without a nuclear war.



Whose talking of accepting anything?

why do they want separation despite China's economic rise?

Some sympathy for these organizations is derived from some genuine grievances. 

remove those grievances which the Chinese are doing and separatist tendencies would wither away. In reality, this part of China is actually getting to previous years.



muse said:


> Yeah, we should give up and die or convert to Wahabism -- I understand that it makes a good sound bite but it does not make sense -- If the response to acts of terrorism is to give in to terrorism, then whats the point of order and law - so the Chinese, the American and the israeli should do the same to any population and then tell them if you want me to stop, you have to give me a reason to stop - good sound bite not good sense



Oh come on man. 

Why TTP is sheltered by some village people in the tribal areas? they promise justice and lawlessness and freedom from drones. 

This is what happened in Swat. Take out the extremists, but do alleviate grievances.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Silverblaze said:


> Whose talking of accepting anything?
> 
> why do they want separation despite China's economic rise?
> 
> Some sympathy for these organizations is derived from some genuine grievances.
> 
> remove those grievances which the Chinese are doing and separatist tendencies would wither away. In reality, this part of China is actually getting to previous years.



ETIM's stated goal is to create an Islamic state called East Turkestan, carved out of Xinjiang.

If we start relaxing restrictions it won't do anything to appease such demands.


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## Silverblaze

Chinese-Dragon said:


> ETIM's stated goal is to create an Islamic state called East Turkestan, carved out of Xinjiang.
> 
> If we start relaxing restrictions it won't do anything to appease such demands.



again, why do they demand a state?

They say that their proposed land would give all the rights to muslims and they would live according to the islamic culture and bla bla bla bla. 

This movement has died down and would continue to do so if the Chinese maintain a positive influence on the common people; the silent majority. 

On other hand, keep and eye on the US, may be the snowden scandal has not gone down well with them as well.


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## soaringeagle

It has nothing to do with religion, there are Muslims all over China and most of them are doing well, The CN government actually has a high tolerance on religious and minority groups unless national security is threaten.
Those are terrorist, every time their acts are carried out by small groups and target at innocent victims.

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## muse

Silverblaze said:


> Oh come on man.
> 
> Why TTP is sheltered by some village people in the tribal areas? they promise justice and lawlessness and freedom from drones.
> 
> This is what happened in Swat. Take out the extremists, but do alleviate grievances.



Because of tribal allegiances -- and look, I have first hand experience with knowing that they offer "justice" and that people like it till it's their turn to get some of that justice -- 

NO Grievance justifies terrorism

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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> NO Grievance justifies terrorism



absolutely right, but that does not mean that grievances should be dismissed as non issues.


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## Wholegrain

Silverblaze said:


> Whose talking of accepting anything?
> 
> why do they want separation despite China's economic rise?
> 
> Some sympathy for these organizations is derived from some genuine grievances.
> 
> remove those grievances which the Chinese are doing and separatist tendencies would wither away. In reality, this part of China is actually getting to previous years.



The traditional religious clerics and secular authorities amonf the Turkic people in the Tarim Basin (now known as uyghurs) voluntarily joined China. The Qarataghlik Khojas (who were sayyids) wielded religious power and they, and the mullahs, begs, Khana, and the Chagatai prince joined China againat the Dzunghars and their Aqtaghlik puppets.

As long as the traditional authorities and reliigious structure wer in place there was no separatism. The clerics did not promote separatism. There was only traditional Islam. China supported keeping the status quo and the clerics and mullahs and begs in power.

Then pan Turkic jadidists who wanted to modernize and reform Islam came in, spread pan Turkic nationalism and separatist sentiment in Xinjiang. The First East Turkestan Republic separatists were inspired by this racist ideology and promoted Turkic supremacy even against non Turkic muslims. The Hui Muslims then crushed the Uyghur rebels and destroyed the republic.

A second strand of separatism was instigated by the Soviet Union. The soviets created the Uyghur ethnicngroup in 1921 and wrote uyghur nationalist histories and promoted uyghur nationalism and separatism from China. The Uyghur leader of the Second East Turkestan Republic during the Ili Rebellion, Ehmetjan Qasim was a member of the .Soviet communist party. Hui and Salar Muslims in the Chinese army fought against the Soviet backed Uyghur army in the Ili Rebellion.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/europe...-300-muslims-during-prayer-2.html#post4399760

The Soviets supported Uyghur militant separatists especially after the sino soviet split during the cold war.

The separatists running around today, the ETIM are influenced by Al qaeda. They are allied to the TTP and you know their ideology already.


----------



## kurup

RazPaK said:


> Chinese will be foolish to believe the Indians. Then eventually they will have a pleasant surprise.



And the chinese officials were dumb that they blamed pakistan based terrorist organistaion for unrest in uighur .

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## Silverblaze

Wholegrain said:


> The traditional religious clerics and secular authorities amonf the Turkic people in the Tarim Basin (now known as uyghurs) voluntarily joined China. The Qarataghlik Khojas (who were sayyids) wielded religious power and they, and the mullahs, begs, Khana, and the Chagatai prince joined China againat the Dzunghars and their Aqtaghlik puppets.
> 
> As long as the traditional authorities and reliigious structure wer in place there was no separatism. The clerics did not promote separatism. There was only traditional Islam. China supported keeping the status quo and the clerics and mullahs and begs in power.
> 
> Then pan Turkic jadidists who wanted to modernize and reform Islam came in, spread pan Turkic nationalism and separatist sentiment in Xinjiang. The First East Turkestan Republic separatists were inspired by this racist ideology and promoted Turkic supremacy even against non Turkic muslims. The Hui Muslims then crushed the Uyghur rebels and destroyed the republic.
> 
> A second strand of separatism was instigated by the Soviet Union. The soviets created the Uyghur ethnicngroup in 1921 and wrote uyghur nationalist histories and promoted uyghur nationalism and separatism from China. The Uyghur leader of the Second East Turkestan Republic during the Ili Rebellion, Ehmetjan Qasim was a member of the .Soviet communist party. Hui and Salar Muslims in the Chinese army fought against the Soviet backed Uyghur army in the Ili Rebellion.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/europe...-300-muslims-during-prayer-2.html#post4399760
> 
> The Soviets supported Uyghur militant separatists especially after the sino soviet split during the cold war.
> 
> The separatists running around today, the ETIM are influenced by Al qaeda. They are allied to the TTP and you know their ideology already.



And also power is a great motivator, but the uniting point of this movement is islam according to them. 

They find excuses to keep their movement alive. Whenever some govts is hard on muslims, they spring into action and influence people.


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## Wholegrain

kurup said:


> And the chinese officials were dumb that they blamed pakistan based terrorist organistaion for unrest in uighur .



ETIM is allied to TTP, and TTP is fighting against the Pakistan government.


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## Strigon

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



Basically 1+ billion people are just wrong no matter what, whose very website you are venting on right now. I feel more sorry for stupid people like yourself that are so easily manipulated by media. Label the culprits not 1 billion people. People from china show intelligence, don't insult yourself and them with your useless brain.

As far as the culprits go, please do kill, hang, torture.. what ever floats your boat. Eliminating such scum from earth is also in our best interest. In case if you haven't noticed lately, we are victims of these savages almost everyday.


Off topic : Where is your weeping heart for these 4 people stabbed to death in Papua New Guinea? Ready to declare the majority of population that is Catholic as murderers/ terrorists? 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23058550


First time I have been disappointed by a Chinese poster.

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## Tshering22

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> every religious group has its fair share of whackos; just look at the Buddhists in Myanmar and see what theyre doing



Hey keep my community out of this.

Just because the front facers were Muslims you get all sentimental about them because of your common religion without knowing the common ground.

They initiated the violence in Burma thinking that it is ruled by clowns like Gogoi of Assam and that their rioting would be followed by appeasement and negotiations. Instead, they got a fierce retaliation from the Buddhists.

If there are religious radicals and extremists in all religions, then why is it that everytime only you lot are highlighted? Don't tell me CNN, Fox, Zionists etc. 

The beheading of that soldier in the middle of a London street in broad daylight was a small example of how newly converts to your religion attacked and killed a non-combatant soldier in his own homeland. 

And FYI the first instance of that was captured by a cell phone camera.

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## muse

Strigon said:


> Basically 1+ billion people are just wrong no matter what, whose very website you are venting on right now. I feel more sorry for stupid people like yourself that are so easily manipulated by media. Label the culprits not 1 billion people. People from china show intelligence, don't insult yourself and them with your useless brain.
> 
> As far as the culprits go, please do kill, hang, torture.. what ever floats your boat. Eliminating such scum from earth is also in our best interest. In case if you haven't noticed lately, we are victims of these savages almost everyday.



So you are angry at the poster or the terrorists?


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## Wholegrain

Strigon said:


> Basically 1+ billion people are just wrong no matter what, whose very website you are venting on right now. I feel more sorry for stupid people like yourself that are so easily manipulated by media. Label the culprits not 1 billion people. People from china show intelligence, don't insult yourself and them with your useless brain.
> 
> As far as the culprits go, please do kill, hang, torture.. what ever floats your boat. Eliminating such scum from earth is also in our best interest. In case if you haven't noticed lately, we are victims of these savages almost everyday.



Okemos is a troll here on PDF. See Chinese tiger's posts, Okemos has a history of flame baiting certain groups. We should Ignore and report next time.


----------



## Tshering22

Strigon said:


> Basically 1+ billion people are just wrong no matter what, whose very website you are venting on right now. I feel more sorry for stupid people like yourself that are so easily manipulated by media. Label the culprits not 1 billion people. People from china show intelligence, don't insult yourself and them with your useless brain.
> 
> As far as the culprits go, please do kill, hang, torture.. what ever floats your boat. Eliminating such scum from earth is also in our best interest. In case if you haven't noticed lately, we are victims of these savages almost everyday.



My friend, ETIM is an islamist movement. 

What do you say for that?

Don't look at it from a Pakistani perspective.

See it from the Chinese perspective.


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## Strigon

muse said:


> So you are angry at the poster or the terrorists?



I not really angry even if my post may show emotion. I really don't take random people on Internet intelligent. But like Wholegrain said, he is a troll which are abundant esp on these forums. 



> My friend, ETIM is an islamist movement.
> 
> What do you say for that?
> 
> Don't look at it from a Pakistani perspective.
> 
> See it from the Chinese perspective.



Maybe I was unclear before, I dont care if its ETIM, TIME, or ITEM organization. Have zero love for lunatics regardless of religion. It was seen and replied as a neutral prospective, you may need an overhaul in your way of viewing comments.


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## muse

Silverblaze said:


> And also power is a great motivator, but the uniting point of this movement is islam according to them.
> 
> They find excuses to keep their movement alive. Whenever some govts is hard on muslims, they spring into action and influence people.



Silver any info on who is funding these terrorists? or Where they train?


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## TheSeeker

RazPaK said:


> If you are happy about getting Muslims murdered, then remember we will not be erased from history.
> 
> 
> We will erase you hindus first, If you continue your hate.
> 
> 
> 
> This shmuck doesn't understand that some of the greatest generals of China were muslims.



you can only bark.....you better admit it that almost 90% of terrorist are muslim and belong to islamic countries........

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## xuxu1457

Has been posted, but I want put some pics, 
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/260484-oh-well-terrorists-xinjiang-killed-17-people.html
from
ÐÂ½®Ò»´¦±ßÔ¶³ÇÊÐ½ñ³¿·¢ÉúÉ§ÂÒÖÂ27ÈËËÀÍö(2)_¹úÄÚ_ÐÂÎÅ_ÖÐ¹úÊ±¿ÌÍø
A town in Shanshan county of Xinjiang province, 6:00 or so, terrorists attacked the police station, government buildings, brandished passers and fire cars, then fired with armed police; 8 vivilian and 9 civilian policemen died, 10 terrorists were killed, 3 terrorists were arrested, some fugitive.





Police station after attacked


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## xuxu1457

A town in Shanshan county of Xinjiang province, 6:00 or so, terrorists attacked the police station, government buildings, brandished passers and fire cars, then fired with armed police; 8 civilian passers and 9 civilian policemen died, 10 terrorists were killed, 3 terrorists were arrested, some fugitive.




Police station after attacked

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## Parul

Already Posted Mate!! Condolences and RIP...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/260484-oh-well-terrorists-xinjiang-killed-17-people.html
@WebMaster, @nuclearpak @Oscar, please merge the thread.


----------



## xuxu1457

Parul said:


> Already Posted Mate!! Condolences and RIP...
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/260484-oh-well-terrorists-xinjiang-killed-17-people.html
> @WebMaster, @nuclearpak @Oscar, please merge the thread.


I know that, but the first page of that thread without pics, I want post some pics


----------



## hurt

Silverblaze said:


> One thing which I don't like is personal comments and comparisons. If you disagree, disagree on facts.
> 
> China Stifles Uighur Muslims on Religion - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net
> China bans Uighur Muslims from fasting during Ramadan | ummid.com
> 
> Don't want to embarrass anyone, but you must fight extremists as well as win common people to your side and not leave them to be exploited by extremists.



bullshit

Plz visit real muslims in china.

Who care about your Ramadan.

Plz tell me that the reason of bans Uighur Muslims from fasting during Ramadan?

Plz tell me that why you bans those kidds eat food during Ramadan.

Terrorist organization and Spinner of lies---World Uighur Congress


----------



## NiceGuy

Strigon said:


> Basically 1+ billion people are just wrong no matter what, whose very website you are venting on right now. I feel more sorry for stupid people like yourself that are so easily manipulated by media. Label the culprits not 1 billion people. People from china show intelligence, don't insult yourself and them with your useless brain.
> 
> As far as the culprits go, please do kill, hang, torture.. what ever floats your boat. Eliminating such scum from earth is also in our best interest. In case if you haven't noticed lately, we are victims of these savages almost everyday.
> 
> 
> Off topic : Where is your weeping heart for these 4 people stabbed to death in Papua New Guinea? Ready to declare the majority of population that is Catholic as murderers/ terrorists?
> 
> BBC News - Four Chinese killed in Papua New Guinea knife attack
> 
> 
> First time I have been disappointed by a Chinese poster.


just like other communist nations,communist China dont like any kind of religious coz we dont trust in God.

Thats why,when the first time l came here,l was so supprise to see Chinese consider a Muslim nation like u as brother, What a big lie from communist people.


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## hurt

NiceGuy said:


> just like other communist nations,communist China dont like any kind of religious coz we dont trust in God.
> 
> Thats why,when the first time l came here,l was so supprise to see Chinese consider a Muslim nation like u as brother, What a big lie from communist people.



You dont like any kind of religious dont means we too.


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## Strigon

NiceGuy said:


> just like other communist nations,communist China dont like any kind of religious coz we dont trust in God.
> 
> Thats why,when the first time l came here,l was so supprise to see Chinese consider a Muslim nation like u as brother, What a big lie from communist people.



Sorry Mi Lord, I didn't realize I was talking to "you", the head spokesman of all people who do not trust in God. If you really think friendships between nations build up due to similarity in religion instead of common interests then you are a pure imbecile. Insult yourself a lil moar please.

Keep eating virtual pop-corns, its all you are good for. Using teh brain aint your thang.

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## NiceGuy

hurt said:


> You dont like any kind of religious dont means we too.


You China red guard dont need to lie to ur little communist brother,dont forget u destroyed many churchs,pagodas etc during Culture revolution


----------



## NiceGuy

Strigon said:


> Sorry Mi Lord, I didn't realize I was talking to "you", the head spokesman of all people who do not trust in God. If you really think friendships between nations build up due to similarity in religion instead of common interests then you are a pure imbecile. Insult yourself a lil moar please.
> 
> Keep eating virtual pop-corns, its all you are good for. Using teh brain aint your thang.


Oki,u and China may have friendship,but never have Trust.Do u know what VNese and Chinese r taught in school abt religious? Let me quote what Mark said

"Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".

That why,communist really hate Muslim in Xinjang or any kind of religions in the world.


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## cnleio




----------



## Mugwop

Sorry to hear about this,My heart goes out to the victims and I hope the uighurs simmer down and behave themselves.
Xinjiang has been a part of china for over 2000 years.


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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> Oki,u and China may have friendship,but never have Trust.*Do u know what VNese and Chinese r taught in school abt religious? Let me quote what Mark said
> 
> "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".*
> 
> That why,communist really hate Muslim in Xinjang or any kind of religions in the world.



Vietnamese Christian in Vietnam ... ... Now pls 
@FoolGuy go back ur home and study more educations.


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## Mugwop

> That why,communist really hate Muslim in Xinjang or any kind of religions in the world.


They don't hate  people who are muslims.


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## Strigon

NiceGuy said:


> Oki,u and China may have friendship,but never have Trust.Do u know what VNese and Chinese r taught in school abt religious? Let me quote what Mark said
> 
> "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people".
> 
> That why,communist really hate Muslim in Xinjang or any kind of religious in the world.




Buddy, I sincerely could not give a damn what kids are taught in which part of teh world. You still do not understand the point. You may hate a particular race/ religion for your own reasons but countries form friendships over more intelligent reasons. 

Trust is another item which comes and goes as needed, for example there aint much trust between the best of allys Israel and US when Israel says it may strike Iran without informing US.

I realize you have a fuming hate against people of many different religions, those people may also not love you back either. But least use some sense in your words hmm? You seemed to be an educated man a few days ago.


----------



## Devil Soul

Few crack heads who claim to be defenders of a religion are using the name of a religion to fulfill their agenda and hide behind it & at the same time few are exploiting these idiots to achieve their agenda.


----------



## NiceGuy

Strigon said:


> Buddy, I sincerely could not give a damn what kids are taught in which part of teh world. You still do not understand the point. You may hate a particular race/ religion for your own reasons but countries form friendships over more intelligent reasons.
> 
> Trust is another item which comes and goes as needed, for example there aint much trust between the best of allys Israel and US when Israel says it may strike Iran without informing US.
> 
> I realize you have a fuming hate against people of many different religions, those people may also not love you back either. But least use some sense in your words hmm? You seemed to be an educated man a few days ago.


bro,u said u disappointed with China poster when they biased against Muslim,so,l just simply explain why Chinese is angry with Muslim in Xinjang. 

The truth is:all communist nations dont like any kind of religion,and we r taught that in school,too.


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## Strigon

NiceGuy said:


> bro,u said u disappointed with China poster when they biase to Muslim,so,l just simply explain why Chinese is angry with Muslim in Xinjang.
> 
> The truth is:all communist nations dont like any kind of religion,and we r taught that in school,too.




First, it was discovered that the Chinese poster is a troll. Trolls as you may know love drama. I was disappointed in human thought process, something I am experiencing even right now answering your dumb questions. 

Truth is that I have come to realize that you have schools in VN and you passed your class yet show no competence in holding an argument only insulting self.

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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I wouldn't know, though I guess it must have something to do with domestic politics.
> 
> If they don't want to do it for whatever reason, then maybe they could just let in a few of our operatives in secret, and just look in the other direction for a while.



The thing is that most of our saber rattling Pakistanis & Others alike are so disconnected by ground realities that they think that the Pakistan Army can simply waltz into those areas & take out whomsoever they will; whereas I've been to Khyber Agency (where we were having our latest military operation) & I've seen how insanely difficult the terrain is for troop movement over there, how calling the Pak-Afghan Border porous would be a massive disservice to the word porous when one looks at the thousands upon thousands of ravines, gullies & caves that *** the entire 1000 km long border & most of all how its been hell for the Pakistan Army to clear those areas without suffering tremendous casualties & millions of internally displaced people ! 

Just the Tirah Valley operation in Khyber got a few dozen of our boys martyred despite Tirah being a stone's throw away from the provincial capital of Khyber-Pukhtookhwa (the province that borders Afghanistan) & why because the terrain is hell for our troops whilst the TTP & other such filthh attack us & then melt back into Afghanistan through those same ravines, gullies & caves that they've been operating from. Just the other day I was watching a Pakistan Army documentary on Bajaur (I think) which is another Tribal Agency that was cleared off the TTP & peace restored there & over there they took us into tunnels & caves that went for miles & opened into Afghanistan and a dozen different places into Pakistani Territory. 

What we also have to understand is that if the ETIM does indeed have presence in Pakistan than it is surely in North Waziristan - that one agency we still haven't cleared ! The reason, as I understand, is less to do with the moronic ramblings of some of us that the Pakistan Army doesn't give a frig about how many Pakistanis are killed or worse how many of their own soldier's are beheaded & their headless bodies paraded about but more due to : 

(i) Logistical Constraints - We're already stretched thin between a destabilized Karachi, a fermenting Baluchistan, the TTP's sanctuaries on the Afghan side through which they routinely cross over into Pakistan & attack even those areas of ours that we've cleared in the past & are consolidating right now (Swat for One where those Tourists were killed & that little girl Malala was shot) & our traditionally security paradigm towards the East where even an Indian politician having stomach problems manages to find a link to the ISI ! 

(ii) Unfortunately the way we entered into this War & the way we sold it to our own people has left the credibility of both the Army & the Government in deep sh*t; which means that there is enough space out there to peddle certain narratives that the Pakistan Army because its fighting the US War On Terror is little more than a mercenary army & if they've got no qualms over siding with the enemy than Pakistan & Pakistanis & more so here Security Apparatus are to be admonished as best or fought at the very worst & thats exactly what most of our bearded buffooons & their religious parties do & the latter is what the TTP does ! 

We are therefore, in essence, a house deeply divided against itself & the Army continues to insist in not so many words....unless the Civilian Governments are on board we're not going to take the fall for it simply because there is a segment of our society that has got its priorities deeply.....deeply foOked up ! The last Government unfortunately was, along with being the most corrupt in our 65 year history put together, was also one that just didn't give a foOk - They didn't even pass an Anti-Terrorism Bill for 5 years despite it being there on the Table ! The time around the newer parties seem to be more concerned & there seems to be a thawing in their stance of talking to the TTP because a lot of their own men have started dying at their hands so we just might see more movement on this ! 

(iii) One has to understand that the Taliban or even its sub-group the TTP is a blanket term for dozens upon dozens of militant organizations that are present in Afghanistan's bordering regions & our Tribal Area of North Waziristan now some of these are fighting against the State of Pakistan, others are fighting against the US and others still are fighting against the Afghan factions in the Government, whilst the rest are simply fighting for the highest bidder ! The US, ever so unfortunately, has lost the war in Afghanistan & the current Afghan Government & its Army doesn't fill any of us with a lot of hope least of all some of the more candid Americans themselves. Therefore Afghanistan is most probably going to descend into another Civil War & Warlordism come 2014 or a few years past that; just like the Soviet backed & armed force that they left behind fell after, unless I'm mistaken, 2 years of the Soviets leaving. 

It is imperative, therefore, to not go in without weeding out different Taliban factions from each other lest we end up biting on a lot more than we can possibly hope to chew ! If an operation against the TTP in Waziristan or the ETIM ends up erroneously targeting those Taliban Factions who might hold no love in the hearts for us but aren't butchering our soldiers either were suddenly to turn their guns on us - We'd be foOked ! Especially now that the Americans are about to call it a day & these factions would operate out of Afghanistan with almost certain impunity & without any American airstrikes or Combat Ops having them to be continuously on their toes. 

What I think, therefore, is the Pakistan Army's intent right now is to wait it out till 2014 whilst consolidating the areas we have consolidated, do the development work they are doing in those areas so as to stop the flow of teenage boys who get brainwashed into blowing themselves up in our towns & mosques & to ensure that some semblance of stability is brought to Afghanistan so that the blood-shed ends & with it the Jihad Narrative & I do believe the talks with the Taliban by the US facilitated by Pakistan is aimed towards that ! 

I could, however be terribly wrong about this & its best if someone like @TaimiKhan @Xeric or @Icarus jumps in ! 

And yes on the Xinjiang issue - I know for a fact that there have been extraditions in the past of Uighur Militants that Pakistan has captured back to China ! And that even religious scholars from Pakistan have been called in to de-radicalise the Uighur in Xinjiang ! 

I'm sure behind the curtains much goes on that neither you nor I know about otherwise why would China & Pakistan be having such excellent relations with each other if one was either complicit or woefully complacent in taking action against those who attack the other. I believe that the Chinese Executive (Military & Civilian) understand the dynamics of our situation & the predicament we find ourselves in & that is precisely why the cooperation goes on & no acrimonious words have been uttered by Chinese Officials, outside of Xinjiang.

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## NiceGuy

cnleio said:


> Vietnamese Christian in Vietnam ... ... Now pls
> @FoolGuy go back ur home and study more educations.


our Govt dont like Christian,if u r Christian its very hard for u to join the Communist party(maybe its the same in China) but we cant wipe them out of VN coz they have US-Western's support,so we let them stay and wait until US collapse,then we will deal with them after that.
U


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## Tshering22

RazPaK said:


> If you are happy about getting Muslims murdered, then remember we will not be erased from history.



Nobody wants to erase you all from the history.

Just erase the scum that are creating anti-national activities around the world's non-Islamic nations. That's all.

I am sure you as a member of UN accept to respect the territorial integrity of each fellow member nation.

Countries cannot be defined by religions, otherwise your religion would have never come out of Arabia in first place.




> We will erase you hindus first, If you continue your hate.



She is a sardarni, dude. 

Your morbid fear of the Hindus is getting you nowhere.



> This shmuck doesn't understand that some of the greatest generals of China were muslims.



So? Does that mean that terrorists today who are acting against China should not be killed?

Those generals were generals due to their own individual merit not because they were Muslims.


See you need to understand; unlike Abrahamic religions, eastern cultures don't designate according to your belief. Which is why Chinese appointed on the basis of merit rather than religion.

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## Awesome

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Even better for us, it means that those groups are within our reach.
> 
> The question is will Pakistan let us come in and wipe them all out, I'm waiting for what Awesome has to say.



Foreign forces cannot operate on our soil - we are already trying to remove US forces from Pakistan (drones). You won't let Pakistan Army come into Xinjiang to finish them off right?

Of course some support can be given to our forces like, live spy sat feeds, some form of more accurate weapons we can buy off you. For Pakistan its very important to minimize collateral damage otherwise the problem will be compounded. Wherever you can help in that regard would be appreciated. 

But as I underscored, the military option is 10% of the solution 90% is social uplifting of these regions. Your western regions are poor and so are ours. If you leave people unemployed or under paid, they will turn to this nonsense. Mass development is an area where china can help

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## ELTurco

iranigirl2 said:


> *As a muslim , I totally agree with you. I'm so disgusted by these Turkic Muslims in China, I've the seen videos online, they are like savages.
> 
> 
> But I just want you to know that a lot minority Muslims also suffer from violent attacks. So, please don't assume all muslims are the same.*
> 
> Majority groups also suffer daily attacks by terrorists.
> 
> 
> I support the Chinese government to control these people. They are not acting like Muslims. They act like savages.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the Islamic world is going through a dark period right now.
> 
> Muslims are so easily manipulated by outside forces.
> 
> 
> Take a look at Syria, I call it Jihad for *Imam CIA.*
> 
> 
> Poverty and ignorance breeds extremism. The Chinese government should continue to develop the area , it might take a generation of two but things will get better.



What an hypocrisy and arrogance. why dont you have the same concern when it comes to your persians role in Syria because i am disgusted by that and its puppets crimes against humanity committed against the Syrian people.

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## Lux de Veritas

China support of Pakistan is quite a double edge sword. While Pakistan is China's best friend, Pakistan baby, the Taliban has been training the Uighur separatist movement. Up to now, I do not see ISI will give up their support for Taliban anytime soon as these folks are valuable asset for expanding Pakistan influence in Afghanistan.

Taliban is one of the very few success story of Pakistan endeavor. Also I do not think Taliban will forgo their Uighur friends. In recent years, there are numerous incidence of Uighur inside Afghanistan receiving training in terrorist camp or fighting side by side with Taliban. USA caught quite a number of them and they are once lock up in Gitmo.

The Chinese support of Pakistan will strengthen Taliban, and that in turns acerbate the Uighur problem. Right now China is still tolerating the situation. But Xinjiang problem may worsen until a stage where China Pakistan relation got deteriorated. 

I believe Indians will laugh all their way seeing this. China has been behaving like a clown in this scenario. And indeed, this situation is "serve China right".


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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> The thing is that most of our saber rattling Pakistanis & Others alike are so disconnected by ground realities that they think that the Pakistan Army can simply waltz into those areas & take out whomsoever they will; whereas I've been to Khyber Agency (where we were having our latest military operation) & I've seen how insanely difficult the terrain is for troop movement over there, how calling the Pak-Afghan Border porous would be a massive disservice to the word porous when one looks at the thousands upon thousands of ravines, gullies & caves that *** the entire 1000 km long border & most of all how its been hell for the Pakistan Army to clear those areas without suffering tremendous casualties & millions of internally displaced people !
> 
> Just the Tirah Valley operation in Khyber got a few dozen of our boys martyred despite Tirah being a stone's throw away from the provincial capital of Khyber-Pukhtookhwa (the province that borders Afghanistan) & why because the terrain is hell for our troops whilst the TTP & other such filthh attack us & then melt back into Afghanistan through those same ravines, gullies & caves that they've been operating from. Just the other day I was watching a Pakistan Army documentary on Bajaur (I think) which is another Tribal Agency that was cleared off the TTP & peace restored there & over there they took us into tunnels & caves that went for miles & opened into Afghanistan and a dozen different places into Pakistani Territory.
> 
> What we also have to understand is that if the ETIM does indeed have presence in Pakistan than it is surely in North Waziristan - that one agency we still haven't cleared ! The reason, as I understand, is less to do with the moronic ramblings of some of us that the Pakistan Army doesn't give a frig about how many Pakistanis are killed or worse how many of their own soldier's are beheaded & their headless bodies paraded about but more due to :
> 
> (i) Logistical Constraints - We're already stretched thin between a destabilized Karachi, a fermenting Baluchistan, the TTP's sanctuaries on the Afghan side through which they routinely cross over into Pakistan & attack even those areas of ours that we've cleared in the past & are consolidating right now (Swat for One where those Tourists were killed & that little girl Malala was shot) & our traditionally security paradigm towards the East where even an Indian politician having stomach problems manages to find a link to the ISI !
> 
> (ii) Unfortunately the way we entered into this War & the way we sold it to our own people has left the credibility of both the Army & the Government in deep sh*t; which means that there is enough space out there to peddle certain narratives that the Pakistan Army because its fighting the US War On Terror is little more than a mercenary army & if they've got no qualms over siding with the enemy than Pakistan & Pakistanis & more so here Security Apparatus are to be admonished as best or fought at the very worst & thats exactly what most of our bearded buffooons & their religious parties do & the latter is what the TTP does !
> 
> We are therefore, in essence, a house deeply divided against itself & the Army continues to insist in not so many words....unless the Civilian Governments are on board we're not going to take the fall for it simply because there is a segment of our society that has got its priorities deeply.....deeply foOked up ! The last Government unfortunately was, along with being the most corrupt in our 65 year history put together, was also one that just didn't give a foOk - They didn't even pass an Anti-Terrorism Bill for 5 years despite it being there on the Table ! The time around the newer parties seem to be more concerned & there seems to be a thawing in their stance of talking to the TTP because a lot of their own men have started dying at their hands so we just might see more movement on this !
> 
> (iii) One has to understand that the Taliban or even its sub-group the TTP is a blanket term for dozens upon dozens of militant organizations that are present in Afghanistan's bordering regions & our Tribal Area of North Waziristan now some of these are fighting against the State of Pakistan, others are fighting against the US and others still are fighting against the Afghan factions in the Government, whilst the rest are simply fighting for the highest bidder ! The US, ever so unfortunately, has lost the war in Afghanistan & the current Afghan Government & its Army doesn't fill any of us with a lot of hope least of all some of the more candid Americans themselves. Therefore Afghanistan is most probably going to descend into another Civil War & Warlordism come 2014 or a few years past that; just like the Soviet backed & armed force that they left behind fell after, unless I'm mistaken, 2 years of the Soviets leaving.
> 
> It is imperative, therefore, to not go in without weeding out different Taliban factions from each other lest we end up biting on a lot more than we can possibly hope to chew ! If an operation against the TTP in Waziristan or the ETIM ends up erroneously targeting those Taliban Factions who might hold no love in the hearts for us but aren't butchering our soldiers either were suddenly to turn their guns on us - We'd be foOked ! Especially now that the Americans are about to call it a day & these factions would operate out of Afghanistan with almost certain impunity & without any American airstrikes or Combat Ops having them to be continuously on their toes.
> 
> What I think, therefore, is the Pakistan Army's intent right now is to wait it out till 2014 whilst consolidating the areas we have consolidated, do the development work they are doing in those areas so as to stop the flow of teenage boys who get brainwashed into blowing themselves up in our towns & mosques & to ensure that some semblance of stability is brought to Afghanistan so that the blood-shed ends & with it the Jihad Narrative & I do believe the talks with the Taliban by the US facilitated by Pakistan is aimed towards that !
> 
> I could, however be terribly wrong about this & its best if someone like @TaimiKhan @Xeric or @Icarus jumps in !
> 
> And yes on the Xinjiang issue - I know for a fact that there have been extraditions in the past of Uighur Militants that Pakistan has captured back to China ! And that even religious scholars from Pakistan have been called in to de-radicalise the Uighur in Xinjiang !
> 
> I'm sure behind the curtains much goes on that neither you nor I know about otherwise why would China & Pakistan be having such excellent relations with each other if one was either complicit or woefully complacent in taking action against those who attack the other. I believe that the Chinese Executive (Military & Civilian) understand the dynamics of our situation & the predicament we find ourselves in & that is precisely why the cooperation goes on & no acrimonious words have been uttered by Chinese Officials, outside of Xinjiang.



Thanks for the well written and well thought out post. 

If Pakistan's hands are tied on this matter I guess we'll just have to figure out a better way to stop cross-border movement on our end. Though our border with Central Asia is massive, so easier said than done.



Awesome said:


> But as I underscored, the military option is 10% of the solution 90% is social uplifting of these regions. Your western regions are poor and so are ours. If you leave people unemployed or under paid, they will turn to this nonsense. Mass development is an area where china can help



We've been trying that with our "China Western Development" policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Western_Development

Xinjiang actually has a very decent per capita income, though not equally distributed. My worry is that certain schools of extremist thinking can't be fought with development, considering how rich and educated a lot of high-ranking terrorist leaders are.

This is the second major incident in Xinjiang in a short period of time, I think the Chinese government is going to go hard on this one.

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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Thanks for the well written and well thought out post.
> 
> If Pakistan's hands are tied on this matter I guess we'll just have to figure out a better way to stop cross-border movement on our end. Though our border with Central Asia is massive, so easier said than done.



I think that more cooperation is happening behind the doors than any of us our privy too; we might be mad as our enemies & friends alike routinely allude to but surely we're not so stupid so as to allow our relationship with China get derailed - Heck even our Crazy Mullahs are mellow on the China thing !

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## Enemy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> CIA was definitely the mastermind behind this, our military insiders told us in last month something will happen in Xinjiang in June, now it seems they were completely right.



Not only CIA, there are other foreign intel agencies working against China round the clock because unlike China, competent countries believe in the interference in domestic affairs of other countries. 

This is part of Chinese intel failure. What Chinese don't get is that they cannot have the luxury to relax. 

This issue is not religious but racial and so the measures should be race oriented. Chinese have to learn how to absorb minority races.


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## Lux de Veritas

Lux de Veritas said:


> China support of Pakistan is quite a double edge sword. While Pakistan is China's best friend, Pakistan baby, the Taliban has been training the Uighur separatist movement. Up to now, I do not see ISI will give up their support for Taliban anytime soon as these folks are valuable asset for expanding Pakistan influence in Afghanistan.
> 
> Taliban is one of the very few success story of Pakistan endeavor. Also I do not think Taliban will forgo their Uighur friends. In recent years, there are numerous incidence of Uighur inside Afghanistan receiving training in terrorist camp or fighting side by side with Taliban. USA caught quite a number of them and they are once lock up in Gitmo.
> 
> The Chinese support of Pakistan will strengthen Taliban, and that in turns acerbate the Uighur problem. Right now China is still tolerating the situation. But Xinjiang problem may worsen until a stage where China Pakistan relation got deteriorated.
> 
> I believe Indians will laugh all their way seeing this. China has been behaving like a clown in this scenario. And indeed, this situation is "serve China right".



Moreover, Pakistan activity in Kashmir will almost certainly destabilize China, if Indian Kashmir get destabilized. Kashmir border Xinjiang and if extremist get hold of Kashmir, China would see a scenario of pearls of Uighur camp along border of Xinjiang, in India Kashmir.

Right now India is fairly successful in containing Kashmiri militant, and that is a indirect help to her enemy -- China.

Other than that USA has been supporting Uighur separatism. Instead of transferring Uighur in Gitmo to China, USA set them free.

There is a bright spark in this backdrop. It looks like China and Dalai is seeing eye in eye in solving Tibet's problem. If China can make a deal with Dalai, she could spend more energy in dealing with Xinjiang problem.

And I expect Uighur problem to get worse in coming years. China need to solve Tibet problem fast.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Armstrong said:


> I think that more cooperation is happening behind the doors than any of us our privy too; we might be mad as our enemies & friends alike routinely allude to but surely we're not so stupid so as to allow our relationship with China get derailed - Heck even our Crazy Mullahs are mellow on the China thing !



About the terrain thing, that is a challenge but not impassable, check the terrain being fought during the Sino-Indian War.

About not angering other Taliban factions unnecessarily, I get it, you should look after your own interests first. I understand 100%, I always say the same thing myself.

China has been talking to the Taliban recently, I think maybe we are trying to get the Taliban to hand over ETIM via some sort of barter deal. That would be the best scenario if true.

About point (ii), that sounds bad, sounds a lot like our "Warlord Era". Which only ended after the central government co-opted many of the warlord factions.

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## Lux de Veritas

Enemy said:


> Not only CIA, there are other foreign intel agencies working against China round the clock because unlike China, competent countries believe in the interference in foreign affairs.
> 
> This is part of Chinese intel failure. What Chinese don't get is that they cannot have the luxury to relax.
> 
> This issue is not religious but racial and so the measures should be race oriented. Chinese have to learn how to absorb minority races.



China is good in absorbing minority race. All Yunnan minorities and Hui Muslim are very integrated. With the rise of Wahhabism, and the support of USA towards Xinjiang separatism, Uighur will fast become a problem.

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## Enemy

Lux de Veritas said:


> China is good in absorbing minority race. All Yunnan minorities and Hui Muslim are very integrated. With the rise of Wahhabism, and the support of USA towards Xinjiang separatism, Uighur will fast become a problem.



You failed to absorb Tibetans and Uyghurs. 

USA alone is not working against China, I repeat. It might be that USA is leading other intel agencies. It might be a retaliation by CIA led agencies to mess with China.... after refusal to send E.S. back home. 

*Expect more trouble in Tibet.* Take measures.


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## Lux de Veritas

Enemy said:


> You failed to absorb Tibetans and Uyghurs.
> 
> USA alone is not working against China, I repeat. It might be that USA is leading other intel agencies. It might be a retaliation by CIA led agencies to mess with China.... after refusal to send E.S. back home.
> 
> *Expect more trouble in Tibet.* Take measures.



I do not see any problem with Tibetan. Tibetan is peaceful people. With development of Tibet, they will forget in 100 years about Dalai Lama and his gangs.

Tibetan in India got more racism and discrimination than in China. India is conducting cultural genocide against Tibetan especially in Ladakh. The reason why Tibetan in India keep quiet is because Dalai Lama pretend not to see anything and ask Tibetan to 
do whatever India wants.

The key to Tibetan problem is Dalai Lama. With or without Dalai, China can solve Tibet problem.

I rather prefer Dalai to re-integrate into China, because solving Tibet problem by development without involvement of Dalai will destroy their spirituality. That is not a win win scenario.

And there is signs that Chairman Xi Jinping is warming up to Dalai.

Uighur is a bigger problem than Tibet.

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## Enemy

Lux de Veritas said:


> I do not see any problem with Tibetan. Tibetan is peaceful people. With development of Tibet, they will forget in 100 years about Dalai Lama and his gangs.



Foreign intel agencies from hostile states won't let that happen. 



Lux de Veritas said:


> Tibetan in India got more racism and discrimination than in China. India is conducting cultural *genocide against Tibetan* especially in Ladakh.



This is how one absorbs minority races.  Everybody did that. 




Lux de Veritas said:


> The reason why Tibetan in India keep quiet is because Dalai Lama pretend not to see anything and ask Tibetan to do whatever India wants.



Naturally! 



Lux de Veritas said:


> The key to Tibetan problem is Dalai Lama. With or without Dalai, China can solve Tibet problem.
> 
> I rather prefer Dalai to re-integrate into China, because solving Tibet problem by development without involvement of Dalai will destroy their spirituality. That is not a win win scenario.
> 
> And there is signs that Chairman Xi Jinping is warming up to Dalai.
> 
> Uighur is a bigger problem than Tibet.



Don't romanticize.


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## venu309

Echo_419 said:


> People leave RazPak he hates Hindus simple as that
> No point in arguing with the Tough guy



He is an A-hole & nothing more than that.

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## drunken-monke

Whomsover the nuthead.... Just shoot these b@$tards in the scrotches.... Terorrism anywhere in the world is condemned...

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## notsuperstitious

RazPaK said:


> Honestly Indian..
> 
> If you continue your transgressions, then you dotheads are no more than target practice.



You forgot to add how muslims are not violent etc etc.

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## cnleio

NiceGuy said:


> our Govt dont like Christian,if u r Christian its very hard for u to join the Communist party(maybe its the same in China) but we cant wipe them out of VN coz they have US-Western's support,so we let them stay and wait until US collapse,then we will deal with them after that.



U r Vietnamese, and We r Chinese, that's the key difference. 
Not about the Religion or Party, we r completely different nations.


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## Tshering22

Lux de Veritas said:


> Moreover, Pakistan activity in Kashmir will almost certainly destabilize China, if Indian Kashmir get destabilized. Kashmir border Xinjiang and if extremist get hold of Kashmir, China would see a scenario of pearls of Uighur camp along border of Xinjiang, in India Kashmir.



That may not be the case. Because Pakistan through their side of the state of Kashmir have a direct border with China's Xinjiang. Which means they really don't need to pass through a very, very heavily fortified J&K to reach China.



> Right now India is fairly successful in containing Kashmiri militant, and that is a indirect help to her enemy -- China.



The militant activities going on in our side of the state is related to separatists trying to secede land on the basis of religion which is not allowed constitutionally and as they illegally cleansed the original inhabitants off the land. Which is why we had to deploy the full force of armed forces to crush separatism.

Recently ever since US handed Pakistan the responsibility of its own economy, our neighbour has become extremely unstable as they were used to a much better level of economy management through their alliance with USA. After Musharaf's move-out, the WOT spilt directly into Pakistan; due to a lot of ghosts that came back from Soviet war days. 

Technically, the objectives of jehadis on our side of the border are very different from ETIM and it is very unlikely that Pakistan could let them cooperate with ETIM because Pakistan openly backs militants against us in the state, which means any material cooperation with ETIM would make it look like the state of Pakistan is supporting separatists against China.

So, it is rather not because of us that the LeT is not cooperating with ETIM but simply because Pakistan doesn't want it to cooperate with ETIM and incur China's wrath.



> Other than that USA has been supporting Uighur separatism. Instead of transferring Uighur in Gitmo to China, USA set them free.



I have nothing against Uyighurs but considering that they may pose a jehadi problem, we need to see the impact they may have on our province of Ladakh. So we need to be careful.

Also, USA has a penchant for supporting separatists world around.

Right now it is indirectly supporting a separatist movement against us by attending their convention recently (khali-stan movement summit or something). 

It is arming the most fundamentalist lunatics against a religiously balanced and liberal Assad regime in Syria which has Russia's and in a way, India's support.

So basically they do what they do the best; create separatism, sell weapons and make money.

It is our prerogative not to fall prey to such things.



> There is a bright spark in this backdrop. It looks like China and Dalai is seeing eye in eye in solving Tibet's problem. If China can make a deal with Dalai, she could spend more energy in dealing with Xinjiang problem.



HH never wanted to separate but wanted autonomy and preservation of Tibetan language, Vajrayana culture and people's customs.

The communists, used to insecurity, went ballistic against him needlessly.


If he weren't a Buddhist spiritual leader and if China had not started territorial aggression against us, we'd have even cooperated with Chinese and Tibetans to mutually and peacefully solve Tibet problem.

This would only benefit us as all tensions would be over, Buddhism would be safe with CCP's assurance and China-India relations will grow safely and strongly.



> And I expect Uighur problem to get worse in coming years. China need to solve Tibet problem fast.



Negotiating with my Buddhist community is easy as we are open to reason and can settle with dialogs.

But the demon Chinese created in the form of supporting a jihadist movement will be very difficult to deal with.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



Its not the religion (Islam) that is faulty. Its the mind freak scums who use religion as a bases to justify their plans or actions. They are people who would translate *Defend* as *Kill* ;


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## Lux de Veritas

Tshering22 said:


> That may not be the case. Because Pakistan through their side of the state of Kashmir have a direct border with China's Xinjiang. Which means they really don't need to pass through a very, very heavily fortified J&K to reach China.
> 
> 
> 
> The militant activities going on in our side of the state is related to separatists trying to secede land on the basis of religion which is not allowed constitutionally and as they illegally cleansed the original inhabitants off the land. Which is why we had to deploy the full force of armed forces to crush separatism.
> 
> Recently ever since US handed Pakistan the responsibility of its own economy, our neighbour has become extremely unstable as they were used to a much better level of economy management through their alliance with USA. After Musharaf's move-out, the WOT spilt directly into Pakistan; due to a lot of ghosts that came back from Soviet war days.
> 
> Technically, the objectives of jehadis on our side of the border are very different from ETIM and it is very unlikely that Pakistan could let them cooperate with ETIM because Pakistan openly backs militants against us in the state, which means any material cooperation with ETIM would make it look like the state of Pakistan is supporting separatists against China.
> 
> So, it is rather not because of us that the LeT is not cooperating with ETIM but simply because Pakistan doesn't want it to cooperate with ETIM and incur China's wrath.
> 
> 
> 
> I have nothing against Uyighurs but considering that they may pose a jehadi problem, we need to see the impact they may have on our province of Ladakh. So we need to be careful.
> 
> Also, USA has a penchant for supporting separatists world around.
> 
> Right now it is indirectly supporting a separatist movement against us by attending their convention recently (khali-stan movement summit or something).
> 
> It is arming the most fundamentalist lunatics against a religiously balanced and liberal Assad regime in Syria which has Russia's and in a way, India's support.
> 
> So basically they do what they do the best; create separatism, sell weapons and make money.
> 
> It is our prerogative not to fall prey to such things.
> 
> 
> 
> HH never wanted to separate but wanted autonomy and preservation of Tibetan language, Vajrayana culture and people's customs.
> 
> The communists, used to insecurity, went ballistic against him needlessly.
> 
> 
> If he weren't a Buddhist spiritual leader and if China had not started territorial aggression against us, we'd have even cooperated with Chinese and Tibetans to mutually and peacefully solve Tibet problem.
> 
> This would only benefit us as all tensions would be over, Buddhism would be safe with CCP's assurance and China-India relations will grow safely and strongly.
> 
> Negotiating with my Buddhist community is easy as we are open to reason and can settle with dialogs.
> 
> But the demon Chinese created in the form of supporting a jihadist movement will be very difficult to deal with.



China has a lot of human right abuses in Tibet. I agree with both hands, but today Tibetan in China is the most educated Tibetan community in the whole world. Sooner or later, Chinese Tibetan is going to be wealthiest in the whole world as well, but I do not like to see a Tibet without Dalai's participation.

Also please be aware of how Ladakh is under cultural genocide. Ladakh culture is lost like nobody. Next could be Sikhim. While Chinese Tibetan today like Dalai, once China educate them and 100 years later, I am sure they will be much secularize. I want to highlight, a developing Tibet to cure separatism is not a win win for Chinese and Tibet. I would rather see Dalai be integrated.

No doubt Dalai do not want independence. The biggest gridlock now is Dalai would want to extend his rule over Qinghai, and Tibetan Sichuan of China. China would be happily cede some power of Tibet. If Dalai group can agreed with China on this, I do see a compromise soon.


----------



## ephone

Well, I bet the police is using the most brutal way to get secrets from those suspects. 

After we are done with them, those islam terrorist bastards will get their bullets. Do not forget to send their family the bill. 



Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



Welcome to attack our army. 

I would like to congratulate our army to send those terrorists into "heaven".



Ahiska said:


> The problem is the uyghurs should attack the chinese army not some random police men RIP to the dead but china saw it coming to them.


----------



## ephone

Well, I doubt so. 

Among the terrorist activities happened each year, I bet at least 90% of them are islam related. That may be even higher. I am tired to hear those "misinterpretation" crap. 



LEGENDARY WARRIOR said:


> Its not the religion (Islam) that is faulty. Its the mind freak scums who use religion as a bases to justify their plans or actions. They are people who would translate *Defend* as *Kill* ;



territorial aggression???

You must be kidding me. It is your nehru who started the stupid eastward policy to grab land from China, even Tibet, though Tibet has been under China's control for more than 300 years. 

nehru got what he deserved: defeat and humiliation. 



Tshering22 said:


> That may not be the case. Because Pakistan through their side of the state of Kashmir have a direct border with China's Xinjiang. Which means they really don't need to pass through a very, very heavily fortified J&K to reach China.
> 
> 
> 
> The militant activities going on in our side of the state is related to separatists trying to secede land on the basis of religion which is not allowed constitutionally and as they illegally cleansed the original inhabitants off the land. Which is why we had to deploy the full force of armed forces to crush separatism.
> 
> Recently ever since US handed Pakistan the responsibility of its own economy, our neighbour has become extremely unstable as they were used to a much better level of economy management through their alliance with USA. After Musharaf's move-out, the WOT spilt directly into Pakistan; due to a lot of ghosts that came back from Soviet war days.
> 
> Technically, the objectives of jehadis on our side of the border are very different from ETIM and it is very unlikely that Pakistan could let them cooperate with ETIM because Pakistan openly backs militants against us in the state, which means any material cooperation with ETIM would make it look like the state of Pakistan is supporting separatists against China.
> 
> So, it is rather not because of us that the LeT is not cooperating with ETIM but simply because Pakistan doesn't want it to cooperate with ETIM and incur China's wrath.
> 
> 
> 
> I have nothing against Uyighurs but considering that they may pose a jehadi problem, we need to see the impact they may have on our province of Ladakh. So we need to be careful.
> 
> Also, USA has a penchant for supporting separatists world around.
> 
> Right now it is indirectly supporting a separatist movement against us by attending their convention recently (khali-stan movement summit or something).
> 
> It is arming the most fundamentalist lunatics against a religiously balanced and liberal Assad regime in Syria which has Russia's and in a way, India's support.
> 
> So basically they do what they do the best; create separatism, sell weapons and make money.
> 
> It is our prerogative not to fall prey to such things.
> 
> 
> 
> HH never wanted to separate but wanted autonomy and preservation of Tibetan language, Vajrayana culture and people's customs.
> 
> The communists, used to insecurity, went ballistic against him needlessly.
> 
> 
> If he weren't a Buddhist spiritual leader and if China had not started territorial aggression against us, we'd have even cooperated with Chinese and Tibetans to mutually and peacefully solve Tibet problem.
> 
> This would only benefit us as all tensions would be over, Buddhism would be safe with CCP's assurance and China-India relations will grow safely and strongly.
> 
> 
> 
> Negotiating with my Buddhist community is easy as we are open to reason and can settle with dialogs.
> 
> But the demon Chinese created in the form of supporting a jihadist movement will be very difficult to deal with.


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## ephone

We do not assume all muslims are like those terrorists. We welcome moderate muslims who adapt to its host country cultures. The problem is that moderate muslims are on the decline. 

BTW, I strongly support Asad gets rid of those savage rebels. Under Asad, at least Syria is a secular country. Under rebel, it is a fxxking dark mid-age world where you will be beheaded or gut-eaten by those inhuman rebel bastards. 




iranigirl2 said:


> As a muslim , I totally agree with you. I'm so disgusted by these Turkic Muslims in China, I've the seen videos online, they are like savages.
> 
> 
> But I just want you to know that a lot minority Muslims also suffer from violent attacks. So, please don't assume all muslims are the same.
> 
> 
> Majority groups also suffer daily attacks by terrorists.
> 
> 
> I support the Chinese government to control these people. They are not acting like Muslims. They act like savages.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the Islamic world is going through a dark period right now.
> 
> Muslims are so easily manipulated by outside forces.
> 
> 
> Take a look at Syria, I call it Jihad for *Imam CIA.*
> 
> 
> Poverty and ignorance breeds extremism. The Chinese government should continue to develop the area , it might take a generation of two but things will get better.


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

RazPaK said:


> People of Islam are not violent, brother.



he's probably another hindustani hiding behind Chinese flags....indian with no jobs will tend to have a frustrated mind



Tshering22 said:


> Hey keep my community out of this.
> 
> Just because the front facers were Muslims you get all sentimental about them because of your common religion without knowing the common ground.
> 
> They initiated the violence in Burma thinking that it is ruled by clowns like Gogoi of Assam and that their rioting would be followed by appeasement and negotiations. Instead, they got a fierce retaliation from the Buddhists.
> 
> If there are religious radicals and extremists in all religions, then why is it that everytime only you lot are highlighted? Don't tell me CNN, Fox, Zionists etc.
> 
> The beheading of that soldier in the middle of a London street in broad daylight was a small example of how newly converts to your religion attacked and killed a non-combatant soldier in his own homeland.
> 
> And FYI the first instance of that was captured by a cell phone camera.



get yer head out of your arse and follow the news....

even UN officials have demanded burma authorities to do more to curb abuses (read GENOCIDE) against the Rohingya Muslims

and like i said, every group has its fair share of whackos, i could damn care less about "high-lighting" because everyone knows that intrigue sells - not substance


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## Lux de Veritas

ephone said:


> Well, I doubt so.
> 
> Among the terrorist activities happened each year, I bet at least 90% of them are islam related. That may be even higher. I am tired to hear those "misinterpretation" crap.
> 
> 
> 
> territorial aggression???
> 
> You must be kidding me. It is your nehru who started the stupid eastward policy to grab land from China, even Tibet, though Tibet has been under China's control for more than 300 years.
> 
> nehru got what he deserved: defeat and humiliation.




The death toll under Chinese is much worse than Muslim. The Greap Leap forward alone cost 30 million death. Death under Chinese civilization is very serious in revolutionary period, which has a frequency of roughly 300 years in China. In normal time, Chinese are extremely peaceful people.

The death under white man is very immense as well. Would not like to elaborate further. The most serious genocide conduct by Islam is Armenian/Christian genocide which cost around 2 million life, far fewer than other civilization.

But Islam has very serious continuos violent problem. So everyday, we see news of Islamic violent. But in actual fact, Islam is intorant but not necessarily more violent than others.

Nevertheless, I think Indians are the most wicked and most violent people in the planet.


----------



## ELTurco

would like to have your opinions.

@atatwolf @MertKaan @olcayto @Sinan @Neptune @tesla @u.MP @xenon54 @damm1t


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## liontk

I disagree with chine folks, this is a human rights problem and has nothing to do with religion though some may try to paint it as such. Forexample I am a Canadien muslim and I have nothing to do with or know alot about the uyighur ethnic group or their struggle, however as far as Human rights violations are concerned, the west has every right to be involved in the struggles of oppressed. Please Chine poster look through this news article and see what his holiness Dalai Lama has to say about our prime minister for having courage in the face of pressure, so yes we Canadien will continue to support the freedom aspiration of the Tibetan and the Uyighur ethnic group as well, though they do come less and less on media so I am not sure about the later.

Dalai Lama commends Stephen Harper for &#8216;courage&#8217; meeting in face of pressure from China | News | National Post

Human Rights Violations in Tibet | Human Rights Watch

Please Chinese folks, look through this link and fight against your government's oppression of Tibetan/Uyighur people and let them taste the joys of freedom.


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## Armstrong

Chinese-Dragon said:


> About the terrain thing, that is a challenge but not impassable, check the terrain being fought during the Sino-Indian War.
> 
> About not angering other Taliban factions unnecessarily, I get it, you should look after your own interests first. I understand 100%, I always say the same thing myself.
> 
> China has been talking to the Taliban recently, I think maybe we are trying to get the Taliban to hand over ETIM via some sort of barter deal. That would be the best scenario if true.
> 
> About point (ii), that sounds bad, sounds a lot like our "Warlord Era". Which only ended after the central government co-opted many of the warlord factions.



Yes mate, we've fought against India across the LOC in Kashmir but the thing about fighting insurgents in their element & fighting a conventional war are two vastly different thing ! These people have been entrenched in these areas for decades since the US & the International Community turned their back on an extremely militarized & socially torn apart Pukhtoon Belt of Afghanistan & Pakistan, whose use ran out once they had been used & abused to defeat the Soviets. These people are not your average soldiers - they are sons of the soil who know everything from an untouched stone to where the nearest gully is & its hell fighting them on their own turf & impossible to fight them on ours because they 're good....they're very good otherwise the US would not have fared marginally better (though some including us dispute that vociferously) against their Afghan counterparts compared with us against this breed of vermin. 

Yes point (ii) is bad indeed & the sole reason why we're loosing this war; its not the men or the guns...its the lack of perception management either at the grass root level or even at times at the National Level - The sooner we get rid of the Mullahs who pisss over everything the sooner we'd have some semblance of movement in these areas; unfortunately even that is much easier said than done.

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## -SINAN-

@ELTurco

Terror has no religion, race, color,nation, etc.

I'am highly against the definition of "Islamic Terrorists". I will never consider them as a fellow muslim or Turk. They are just piece of shits killing innocent people.

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## Ahiska

ephone said:


> Well, I bet the police is using the most brutal way to get secrets from those suspects.
> 
> After we are done with them, those islam terrorist bastards will get their bullets. Do not forget to send their family the bill.
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome to attack our army.
> 
> I would like to congratulate our army to send those terrorists into "heaven".



Well those Army heroes shot them with maschine guns and the uyghurs only have knives.....


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## DV RULES

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/242643-xinjiang-focus-us-foreign-policy.html


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## Ahiska

damm1t said:


> From your comment I infer that you are not a human being which has no fu8king rights. Feel free to be raped, robbed, stabbed and killed on the streets, good luck.


Did you expect anything else the soviets said the same things they have a complex about nations or people who ruled over them.....


----------



## liontk

itaskol said:


> we are glad to send all uyighur to hell. fu8king human rights!!!
> our current goverment is so weak and think too much on idiotic human rights!!
> what we need now is adolf Hiltler&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;



So you will simply ignore human rights violations, just don't complain when your citizens ask the west for assistance in liberation. I like Chine and respect it's people but human rights violations are not something you can simply ignore and west will continue to be a beacon of hope for humanity in the coming years if you do not clean up your mess. If you think I am being harsh, you should see what his holliness Dalai lama has to stay on the current regime in Beijing. I also do not think that Tibet or Xianjaing have to be independent but rather a different policy has to occur and if this keeps continuing, then the west may have to intervene in this global issue of human rights. 
I will admit right now Canadien cannot voice our opinion against chine due to huge economic investments/buy up of our industries but we can still protest and lodge complaints at the UN against your government so do not take us for fools just because we might be slightly weaker in comparison.


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## itaskol

damm1t said:


> From your comment I infer that you are not a human being which has no fu8king rights. Feel free to be raped, robbed, stabbed and killed on the streets, good luck.



we need naziism to eliminate extreme Islamist, there is no other way.


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## olcayto

Communism, the worlds greatest murdering system.

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## Ahiska

olcayto said:


> Communism, the worlds greatest murdering system.


You are so right my brother.

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## Sasquatch

RIP the those who died.

What kind of idiots attack a police a station ? Xinjiang was far better under Wang Lequan because he knew how to deal with terrorist. Much tougher line will be taken. 

Plenty of illogical comments by people who also are blaming India for this.

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## cnleio

No,No ... at least in China the human life >>> human right, specially innocent life.

Only the death sentence would be best pay for killing innocnets, uigur kill hans or hans kill uigur, they all should pay for their evils.The religious flags or human rights didn't allow any chinese citizen to legally kill other innocents, as long as XinJiang still part of PRC and these uigur still Chinese citizens, they should obey China laws and pay for killings.

After XinJiang and Uigur riots once again, China will punish some local religious leader and strickly control local religion development. Most Chinese ppl including me insisit sending PLA out to around countries, Chinese soldiers should fight in the land who supported XinJiang riots and Uigur terrorist, bring Chinese angry to our enemy !

Only the attack is the best way to defend XingJiang. TAKE THAT, CHINA PLA ~!

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## damm1t

itaskol said:


> we need naziism to eliminate extreme Islamist, there is no other way.



You want to eliminate extreme things with greater extreme solutions.
In fact, you cant get rid of flies unless you don't dry the bog... If you want a responsible, you know where you have to point your finger on map.


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## illusion8

RazPaK said:


> As long as India is in Afghanistan, expect trouble in China.





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> As long as USA stays in Central Asia, there will be no eternal peace.



There was one more guy who said it's Russia, someone mentioned it's Turkey - So who is it?


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## itaskol

damm1t said:


> You want to eliminate extreme things with greater extreme solutions.
> .


it is indeed the right thing. what else can we do now?
normally we dont see islamist as our enemy. but it will change in near future after so many this kind of attack..


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## illusion8

shuntmaster said:


> Are you sure they are not Shaheeds who were doing jihad and freedom fighting?



Not when it comes to terrorists in China or Pakistan - anywhere else they are shaheeds and freedom fighters.

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## Sasquatch

@Ahiska @olcayto @itaskol stick to the topic and refrain from insulting otherwise you will get an infraction.


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## olcayto

itaskol said:


> actually. I do miss chairman Mao.



Well good right?

Just make sure china turns back to those years.
Maybe they can democide another 75 million people in the nezt 50 years.

But be carefull though. These kinds of leaders tend to fvck up the entire population of the country.



Hu Songshan said:


> @Ahiska @olcayto @itaskol stick to the topic and refrain from insulting otherwise you will get an infraction.



Have &#304; insulted people?

Your countrymen is asking for those dark ages not me. &#304;'m somewhat happy actually that china is moving in a better direction. 
Away from the past.


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## illusion8

PlanetWarrior said:


> Offcourse the Pakistani army has the capability to do so. They have the capability to eradicate all terrorists from their territory. The important question remains whether they have the will or the desire to do so. These are their strategic assets. Why should they interfere with a possible weapon in the future? Remember if China gets nasty with Pakistan in the future, Pakistan will require an unconventional weapon to wield against China. Welcome to the world of realpolitik when it comes to Pakistan. We know them. You will learn about them



And, to take it forward Pakistan are allies of the US - so who would be needing a bargaining and a controlling chip in the region like for e.g. the Taliban for Afghanistan to keep the flow of dollars coming or to remain relevant is not too hard to decipher.


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## Sasquatch

olcayto said:


> Well good right?
> 
> Just make sure china turns back to those years.
> Maybe they can democide another 75 million people in the nezt 50 years.
> 
> But be carefull though. These kinds of leaders tend to fvck up the entire population of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> Have &#304; insulted people?
> 
> Your countrymen is asking for those dark ages not me. &#304;'m somewhat happy actually that china is moving in a better direction.
> Away from the past.




Your going off topic, Ahiska and Itaskol posted plenty of insulting comments, Some of the comments they made are irrational which I have deleted however there is anger for constant attacks and people dying and those who seem to be supporting the attackers.


----------



## itaskol

olcayto said:


> Well good right?
> 
> Just make sure china turns back to those years.
> Maybe they can democide another 75 million people in the nezt 50 years.
> 
> But be carefull though. These kinds of leaders tend to fvck up the entire population of the country.
> 
> 
> 
> Have &#304; insulted people?
> 
> Your countrymen is asking for those dark ages not me. &#304;'m somewhat happy actually that china is moving in a better direction.
> Away from the past.



I dont have problem with your turkey, you are far far away,
i am also happy that china is moving in a better direction.
but some current policies are definitly wrong.


----------



## jaunty

Hu Songshan said:


> Your going off topic, Ahiska and Itaskol posted plenty of insulting comments, Some of the comments they made are irrational which I have deleted however there is anger for constant attacks and people dying and those who seem to be supporting the attackers.



Would you be kind enough to remove the following comment. "Dothead" is a racist word, that user has been using racist words repeatedly I think, repeated violations also deserve infractions..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-xinjiang-killed-17-people-7.html#post4453440

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## MertKaan

Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .

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## Sasquatch

jaunty said:


> Would you be kind enough to remove the following comment. "Dothead" is a racist word, that user has been using racist words repeatedly I think, repeated violations also deserve infractions..
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...-xinjiang-killed-17-people-7.html#post4453440



Done and infraction given, got rid of most of the comments insult or go off topic, if the thread cannot be discussed civil way then I might close it.

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## scherz

MertKaan said:


> Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .


You tolerate turks killing chinese? Are you racist?


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## jaunty

On topic-- China needs to be very careful about this. Xinjiang being in the neighborhood of Pakistan, the epicenter of terrorism in the region can have dangerous consequences. While there won't be any state sponsorship of terrorism from the Pakistani side here, like they do in India, but they also don't have control over vast majority of their Islamic fundamentalists. So you would be well advised to be watchful.


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## Developereo

MertKaan said:


> Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .



I agree that the Uyghurs have some legitimate issues, but that is no excuse for terrorism.

RIP to the victims.


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## itaskol

MertKaan said:


> Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .



there is no place on earth called East Turkestan


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## Lux de Veritas

To those angry Chinese here, are you a northern or southern Chinese. I am a southern Chinese and I have almost no Turkish blood. Do you know that Northern Chinese has a lot of Turkish blood in side you? These angry Chinese here are making a fool out of our race.

Every period of Chinese histories, different tribes are mentioned. Detail information regarding the peopling and languages many of these tribes remains obscure till this day. They have all amalgamated into Han Chinese. After the unification of China, mass migration of Northern nomadic still occurs frequently, especially when central government was too weak to provide security.

During the period of chaos of Northern China in Jin dynasty from AD 304 to AD 416 (&#20116;&#32993;&#20081;&#21326, the Northern nomads, and as well as Tibetic tribe mass migrate into China.

The gene of early Tang emperor has been shown to be mostly of Northern Nomadic tribe. It is still not clear whether the paternal line is Han Chinese, but the maternal lines are definitely of female nomadic aristocrats, from Xianbei tribe.

And canonical Chinese history text Zizhi Tongjian (&#36164;&#27835;&#36890;&#37492 shows that Emperor Taizong of Tang, Li Shimn &#21776;&#22826;&#23447;&#26446;&#19990;&#27665; speak Turkic. To simplify, the text below states, Emperor "Li Shimin asked his soldiers to stay behind and he went himself alone to speak to East Tu-Jue Illig Khan" "&#19978;&#40638;&#35832;&#20891;&#20351;&#21364;&#32780;&#24067;&#38472;&#65292;&#29420;&#30041;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#35821;" .

&#19978;&#33258;&#20986;&#29572;&#27494;&#38376;&#65292;&#19982;&#39640;&#22763;&#24265;&#12289;&#25151;&#29572;&#40836;&#31561;&#20845;&#39569;&#24452;&#35811;&#28205;&#27700;&#19978;&#65292;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#38548;&#27700;&#32780;&#35821;&#65292;&#36131;&#20197;&#36127;&#32422;&#12290;&#31361;&#21413;&#22823;&#24778;&#65292;&#30342;&#19979;&#39532;&#32599;&#25308;&#12290;&#20420;&#32780;&#35832;&#20891;&#32487;&#33267;&#65292;&#26060;&#30002;&#34109;&#37326;&#65292;&#39049;&#21033;&#35265;&#25191;&#22833;&#24605;&#21147;&#19981;&#36820;&#65292;&#32780;&#19978;&#25402;&#36523;&#36731;&#20986;&#65292;&#20891;&#23481;&#29978;&#30427;&#65292;&#26377;&#24807;&#33394;&#12290;&#19978;&#40638;&#35832;&#20891;&#20351;&#21364;&#32780;&#24067;&#38472;&#65292;&#29420;&#30041;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#35821;&#12290;&#33831;&#29760;&#20197;&#19978;&#36731;&#25932;&#65292;&#21481;&#39532;&#22266;&#35855;&#65292;&#19978;&#26352;&#65306;&#8220;&#21566;&#31609;&#20043;&#24050;&#29087;&#65292;&#38750;&#21375;&#25152;&#30693;&#12290;&#31361;&#21413;&#25152;&#20197;&#25954;&#20542;&#22269;&#32780;&#26469;&#65292;&#30452;&#25269;&#37066;&#30008;&#32773;&#65292;&#20197;&#25105;&#22269;&#20869;&#26377;&#38590;&#65292;&#26389;&#26032;&#21363;&#20301;&#12290;&#35859;&#25105;&#19981;&#33021;&#25239;&#24481;&#25925;&#20063;&#12290;&#25105;&#33509;&#31034;&#20043;&#20197;&#24369;&#65292;&#38381;&#38376;&#25298;&#23432;&#65292;&#34383;&#24517;&#25918;&#20853;&#22823;&#25504;&#65292;&#19981;&#21487;&#22797;&#21046;&#12290;&#25925;&#26389;&#36731;&#39569;&#29420;&#20986;&#65292;&#31034;&#33509;&#36731;&#20043;&#65307;&#21448;&#38663;&#26332;&#20891;&#23481;&#65292;&#20351;&#20043;&#24517;&#25112;&#65307;&#20986;&#34383;&#19981;&#24847;&#65292;&#20351;&#20043;&#22833;&#22270;&#12290;&#34383;&#20837;&#25105;&#22320;&#26082;&#28145;&#65292;&#24517;&#26377;&#24807;&#24515;&#65292;&#25925;&#19982;&#25112;&#21017;&#20811;&#65292;&#19982;&#21644;&#21017;&#22266;&#30691;&#12290;&#21046;&#26381;&#31361;&#21413;&#65292;&#22312;&#27492;&#19968;&#20030;&#65292;&#21375;&#31532;&#35266;&#20043;&#65281;&#8221;&#26159;&#26085;&#65292;&#39049;&#21033;&#26469;&#35831;&#21644;&#65292;&#35791;&#35768;&#20043;&#12290;&#19978;&#21363;&#26085;&#36824;&#23467;&#12290;&#20057;&#37193;&#65292;&#21448;&#24184;&#22478;&#35199;&#65292;&#26025;&#30333;&#39532;&#65292;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#30431;&#20110;&#20415;&#26725;&#20043;&#19978;&#12290;&#31361;&#21413;&#24341;&#20853;&#36864;&#12290;

His first crown prince Li Cheng Gan &#26446;&#25215;&#20094; not only like to speak Turkic, but also like to dress as a Turk, stay in Turkic tent, and relish Turkic culinary.

&#21448;&#20351;&#25143;&#22900;&#25968;&#21313;&#30334;&#20154;&#20064;&#38899;&#22768;&#65292;&#23398;&#32993;&#20154;&#26894;&#39675;&#65292;&#21098;&#24425;&#20026;&#33310;&#34915;&#65292;&#23547;&#27238;&#36339;&#21073;&#65292;&#40723;&#38814;&#22768;&#36890;&#26172;&#22812;&#19981;&#32477;&#12290;&#36896;&#22823;&#38108;&#28809;&#12289;&#20845;&#29087;&#40718;&#65292;&#25307;&#20129;&#22900;&#30423;&#21462;&#20154;&#29275;&#39532;&#65292;&#20146;&#35270;&#28921;&#29142;&#65292;&#21484;&#25152;&#24184;&#21422;&#20859;&#20849;&#39135;&#20043;&#12290;&#21448;&#22909;&#31361;&#21413;&#35328;&#21450;&#25152;&#26381;&#65292;&#36873;&#35980;&#31867;&#32993;&#32773;&#65292;&#34987;&#20197;&#32650;&#35032;&#65292;&#36779;&#21457;&#65292;&#20116;&#20154;&#24314;&#19968;&#33853;&#65292;&#24352;&#27617;&#33293;&#65292;&#36896;&#20116;&#29436;&#22836;&#32411;&#65292;&#20998;&#25119;&#20026;&#38453;, &#65292;&#31995;&#24161;&#26071;&#65292;&#35774;&#31353;&#24208;&#33258;&#23621;&#65292;&#20351;&#35832;&#37096;&#25947;&#32650;&#20197;&#28921;&#65292;&#25277;&#20329;&#20992;&#21106;&#32905;&#30456;&#21847;&#12290;

I can list numerous "Chinese" that are actually Turks and Uighur are our brothers.
&#30707;&#25964;&#29805;
&#21490;&#24605;&#26126;
&#23433;&#31108;&#23665;
&#26446;&#20811;&#29992;
&#26446;&#23384;&#21207;

And many scholars are hypothesizing that the northern wei dynasty &#21271;&#39759; that supply the ruling class of Sui and Tang dynasty could be Turkic.


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## scherz

The murderers should get life sentence. And their followers, motivaters should get the full consequences. Also the police should infiltrate every extremists group that these massacas will never happen again.
And to all typical over national prided turks: Killing innocent people is a crime where ever they come from. Who ever they are.


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## cnleio

itaskol said:


> there is no place on earth called East Turkestan


Never mind, they could support some Uygur terrorists. Why not China support Kurdish guerrillas in Eastern Turkestan? Why not China support opponents in Cyprus island? Why not China send free millions of 'made in China' weapons to some guerrillas near Turkey border ?

That would be EASY for China ! They can support their brothers, we can arm their rebels to the teeth by endless weapons support.


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## itaskol

Lux de Veritas said:


> To those angry Chinese here, are you a northern or southern Chinese. I am a southern Chinese and I have almost no Turkish blood. Do you know that Northern Chinese has a lot of Turkish blood in side you? These angry Chinese here are making a fool out of our race.
> 
> Every period of Chinese histories, different tribes are mentioned. Detail information regarding the peopling and languages many of these tribes remains obscure till this day. They have all amalgamated into Han Chinese. After the unification of China, mass migration of Northern nomadic still occurs frequently, especially when central government was too weak to provide security.
> 
> During the period of chaos of Northern China in Jin dynasty from AD 304 to AD 416 (&#20116;&#32993;&#20081;&#21326, the Northern nomads, and as well as Tibetic tribe mass migrate into China.
> 
> The gene of early Tang emperor has been shown to be mostly of Northern Nomadic tribe. It is still not clear whether the paternal line is Han Chinese, but the maternal lines are definitely of female nomadic aristocrats, from Xianbei tribe.
> 
> And canonical Chinese history text Zizhi Tongjian (&#36164;&#27835;&#36890;&#37492 shows that Emperor Taizong of Tang, Li Shimn &#21776;&#22826;&#23447;&#26446;&#19990;&#27665; speak Turkic. To simplify, the text below states, Emperor "Li Shimin asked his soldiers to stay behind and he went himself alone to speak to East Tu-Jue Illig Khan" "&#19978;&#40638;&#35832;&#20891;&#20351;&#21364;&#32780;&#24067;&#38472;&#65292;&#29420;&#30041;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#35821;" .
> 
> &#19978;&#33258;&#20986;&#29572;&#27494;&#38376;&#65292;&#19982;&#39640;&#22763;&#24265;&#12289;&#25151;&#29572;&#40836;&#31561;&#20845;&#39569;&#24452;&#35811;&#28205;&#27700;&#19978;&#65292;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#38548;&#27700;&#32780;&#35821;&#65292;&#36131;&#20197;&#36127;&#32422;&#12290;&#31361;&#21413;&#22823;&#24778;&#65292;&#30342;&#19979;&#39532;&#32599;&#25308;&#12290;&#20420;&#32780;&#35832;&#20891;&#32487;&#33267;&#65292;&#26060;&#30002;&#34109;&#37326;&#65292;&#39049;&#21033;&#35265;&#25191;&#22833;&#24605;&#21147;&#19981;&#36820;&#65292;&#32780;&#19978;&#25402;&#36523;&#36731;&#20986;&#65292;&#20891;&#23481;&#29978;&#30427;&#65292;&#26377;&#24807;&#33394;&#12290;&#19978;&#40638;&#35832;&#20891;&#20351;&#21364;&#32780;&#24067;&#38472;&#65292;&#29420;&#30041;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#35821;&#12290;&#33831;&#29760;&#20197;&#19978;&#36731;&#25932;&#65292;&#21481;&#39532;&#22266;&#35855;&#65292;&#19978;&#26352;&#65306;&#8220;&#21566;&#31609;&#20043;&#24050;&#29087;&#65292;&#38750;&#21375;&#25152;&#30693;&#12290;&#31361;&#21413;&#25152;&#20197;&#25954;&#20542;&#22269;&#32780;&#26469;&#65292;&#30452;&#25269;&#37066;&#30008;&#32773;&#65292;&#20197;&#25105;&#22269;&#20869;&#26377;&#38590;&#65292;&#26389;&#26032;&#21363;&#20301;&#12290;&#35859;&#25105;&#19981;&#33021;&#25239;&#24481;&#25925;&#20063;&#12290;&#25105;&#33509;&#31034;&#20043;&#20197;&#24369;&#65292;&#38381;&#38376;&#25298;&#23432;&#65292;&#34383;&#24517;&#25918;&#20853;&#22823;&#25504;&#65292;&#19981;&#21487;&#22797;&#21046;&#12290;&#25925;&#26389;&#36731;&#39569;&#29420;&#20986;&#65292;&#31034;&#33509;&#36731;&#20043;&#65307;&#21448;&#38663;&#26332;&#20891;&#23481;&#65292;&#20351;&#20043;&#24517;&#25112;&#65307;&#20986;&#34383;&#19981;&#24847;&#65292;&#20351;&#20043;&#22833;&#22270;&#12290;&#34383;&#20837;&#25105;&#22320;&#26082;&#28145;&#65292;&#24517;&#26377;&#24807;&#24515;&#65292;&#25925;&#19982;&#25112;&#21017;&#20811;&#65292;&#19982;&#21644;&#21017;&#22266;&#30691;&#12290;&#21046;&#26381;&#31361;&#21413;&#65292;&#22312;&#27492;&#19968;&#20030;&#65292;&#21375;&#31532;&#35266;&#20043;&#65281;&#8221;&#26159;&#26085;&#65292;&#39049;&#21033;&#26469;&#35831;&#21644;&#65292;&#35791;&#35768;&#20043;&#12290;&#19978;&#21363;&#26085;&#36824;&#23467;&#12290;&#20057;&#37193;&#65292;&#21448;&#24184;&#22478;&#35199;&#65292;&#26025;&#30333;&#39532;&#65292;&#19982;&#39049;&#21033;&#30431;&#20110;&#20415;&#26725;&#20043;&#19978;&#12290;&#31361;&#21413;&#24341;&#20853;&#36864;&#12290;
> 
> His first crown prince Li Cheng Gan &#26446;&#25215;&#20094; not only like to speak Turkic, but also like to dress as a Turk, stay in Turkic tent, and relish Turkic culinary.
> 
> &#21448;&#20351;&#25143;&#22900;&#25968;&#21313;&#30334;&#20154;&#20064;&#38899;&#22768;&#65292;&#23398;&#32993;&#20154;&#26894;&#39675;&#65292;&#21098;&#24425;&#20026;&#33310;&#34915;&#65292;&#23547;&#27238;&#36339;&#21073;&#65292;&#40723;&#38814;&#22768;&#36890;&#26172;&#22812;&#19981;&#32477;&#12290;&#36896;&#22823;&#38108;&#28809;&#12289;&#20845;&#29087;&#40718;&#65292;&#25307;&#20129;&#22900;&#30423;&#21462;&#20154;&#29275;&#39532;&#65292;&#20146;&#35270;&#28921;&#29142;&#65292;&#21484;&#25152;&#24184;&#21422;&#20859;&#20849;&#39135;&#20043;&#12290;&#21448;&#22909;&#31361;&#21413;&#35328;&#21450;&#25152;&#26381;&#65292;&#36873;&#35980;&#31867;&#32993;&#32773;&#65292;&#34987;&#20197;&#32650;&#35032;&#65292;&#36779;&#21457;&#65292;&#20116;&#20154;&#24314;&#19968;&#33853;&#65292;&#24352;&#27617;&#33293;&#65292;&#36896;&#20116;&#29436;&#22836;&#32411;&#65292;&#20998;&#25119;&#20026;&#38453;, &#65292;&#31995;&#24161;&#26071;&#65292;&#35774;&#31353;&#24208;&#33258;&#23621;&#65292;&#20351;&#35832;&#37096;&#25947;&#32650;&#20197;&#28921;&#65292;&#25277;&#20329;&#20992;&#21106;&#32905;&#30456;&#21847;&#12290;
> 
> I can list numerous "Chinese" that are actually Turks and Uighur are our brothers.
> &#30707;&#25964;&#29805;
> &#21490;&#24605;&#26126;
> &#23433;&#31108;&#23665;
> &#26446;&#20811;&#29992;
> &#26446;&#23384;&#21207;
> 
> And many scholars are hypothesizing that the northern wei dynasty &#21271;&#39759; that supply the ruling class of Sui and Tang dynasty could be Turkic.


 Turks and Uighur was our brothers. now they are not


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## cnleio

MertKaan said:


> Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .



Never mind, u could support some Uygur terrorists. Why not China support Kurdish guerrillas in Eastern Turkey ? Why not China support opponents in Cyprus island? Why not China send free millions of 'made in China' weapons to some guerrillas near Turkey border ?

That would be EASY for China ! U can support ur brothers, China also can arm ur rebels to the teeth by endless weapons support. Look at finally whose country will live in the hell !

Oh well, i think it's a good idea take with Russian and Greeks together to find troubles to Turkey.

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## tesla

China is exploiting east turkistan rich natural resources and irreligious china government is killing turkic muslims and to assimilate uyghurs via immigrant policies this is a state terrorism shame


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## MertKaan

Do you know the country named "East Turkistan"?
This area is usually called "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region", the People's Republic of China.
This country has been invaded and is facing various suppressions by Chinese Communist Party. 

Specifically :
1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals". 

The East Turkistan people are still under the oppression of China.
The unique culture, language, and customs are beginning to fade by emigration of huge amount of Han people and ethnic cleansing policies. 

Unfortunately this fact is not well known worldwide. However, even now the East Turkistan people are suffering.

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## Snomannen

MertKaan said:


> Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .



There is no such thing of "East Turkestan".
The Shinjang Uyghur Aptonom Rayoni is part of China. It belongs to Uyghur, Han, Kazakh, Hun, Xibe, Mongolian and other Chinese ethnics. Outsiders like you better stop talking nonsense in front of Chinese people. 
Mind your own business, why don't you annoy your neighbors and claim for rebuilding the holy glorious Ottoman Empire instead of spreading your funny "Jus sanguinis".

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## doremon

itaskol said:


> 10 terrorist killed till now



i wish india was like china ,killing terrorist then and there is a good job, its like buying a lottery and immediately u will be given prize...


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## VelocuR

Let's wait for Chinese Official statements and Investigation report. Everyone made assumptions to accuse anyone without evidences.


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## itaskol

MertKaan said:


> Specifically :
> 1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
> 2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
> 3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals"


serioursly? where you read these kind of buxlshxt??


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## q12093487q

MertKaan said:


> Oh well, terrorists in Xinjiang killed 17 people  This title is crime for human rights .. You, Chinese people must know that Always WE W&#304;LL SUPPORT OUR UYGUR BROTHERS , East Turkestan is not part of china .



The title should be changed to" uyghur heros killed 17 evil chinese"?

You will support uyghurs.But how?China haven't supported kurds and we can learn from you.


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## tesla

edittttttttttttttt


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## MertKaan

itaskol said:


> serioursly? where you read these kind of buxlshxt??

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## VelocuR

It make us feeling anger when our Chinese brothers and sisters were killed by terrorisms. Pakistan is strongly condemn the evil action and give them a lesson.

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## q12093487q

MertKaan said:


> Do you know the country named "East Turkistan"?
> This area is usually called "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region", the People's Republic of China.
> This country has been invaded and is facing various suppressions by Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Specifically :
> 1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
> 2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
> 3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals".
> 
> The East Turkistan people are still under the oppression of China.
> The unique culture, language, and customs are beginning to fade by emigration of huge amount of Han people and ethnic cleansing policies.
> 
> Unfortunately this fact is not well known worldwide. However, even now the East Turkistan people are suffering.



Do you know why this &#8220;fact&#8220; not well known worldwide&#65311;Because it's bullshit&#65292;even CNN or BBC wouldn&#8217;t believe that



MertKaan said:


>



This is the dumbest Propaganda I have ever seen&#65292;there are other minority groups
and han chinese living there and do you even know where luobupo is located&#65311;PLS use google earth


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## tesla

RaptorRX707 said:


> It make us feeling anger when our Chinese brothers and sisters were killed by terrorisms. Pakistan is strongly condemn the evil action and give them a lesson.



evil action is china's emperyalistic communism on uyghurs


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## MertKaan

RaptorRX707 said:


> It make us feeling anger when our Chinese brothers and sisters were killed by terrorisms. Pakistan is strongly condemn the evil action and give them a lesson.



good luck you with your chinese brothers  bye bye PAK&#304;STAN ..

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## cnleio

q12093487q said:


> The title should be changed to" uyghur heros killed 17 evil chinese"?
> You will support uyghurs.But how?China haven't supported kurds and we can learn from you.


That i wanna say, if they support uyghurs the China also will support kurds and any Kurdish guerrilla. Through Iran, Russia, Syria or Greece(maybe) many free weapons to arm PKK, and let them kill each other.


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## VelocuR

MertKaan said:


> good luck you with your chinese brothers  bye bye PAK&#304;STAN ..



I don't think Turkey is involved in this attack. It could be other country.

Not Turkey.

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## kurup

Wholegrain said:


> ETIM is allied to TTP, and TTP is fighting against the Pakistan government.



Well friend , I was not the one who made the accusation , it was the chinese officials .


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## q12093487q

cnleio said:


> That i wanna say, if they support uyghurs the China also will support kurds and any Kurdish guerrilla. Through Iran, Russia, Libya or Greece(maybe) many free weapons to arm PKK, and let them kill each other.



Just some internet warriors&#65292;I am glad the Turkish goverment is not stupid


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## Lux de Veritas

MertKaan said:


> Do you know the country named "East Turkistan"?
> This area is usually called "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region", the People's Republic of China.
> This country has been invaded and is facing various suppressions by Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Specifically :
> 1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
> 2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
> 3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals".
> 
> The East Turkistan people are still under the oppression of China.
> The unique culture, language, and customs are beginning to fade by emigration of huge amount of Han people and ethnic cleansing policies.
> 
> Unfortunately this fact is not well known worldwide. However, even now the East Turkistan people are suffering.



I think you did not study your books. The so call East Turkestan could have got their independence, but it was the Turks' brothers the Hui Muslim that that brought Xinjiang back to China. Hui Muslim in the west are Sinized Turks and Tajik.

They hate Uyghur independence movement and are willing to support Han Chinese in taking down separatist. See Battle of Kashgar (1933).

The communist did not invade Xinjiang or what so called East Turkistan. No one invade Xinjiang. The Hui Muslim quell the rebellion.


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## tesla

cnleio said:


> That i wanna say, if they support uyghurs the China also will support kurds and any Kurdish guerrilla. Through Iran, Russia, Syria or Greece(maybe) many free weapons to arm PKK, and let them kill each other.



china and pkk are communist terrorist bros good luck



MertKaan said:


> Kald&#305;r sunlar&#305; bu &#351;ekilde zarar veriorsun bu hakl&#305; davaya karde&#351;im


 niya kald&#305;r&#305;y&#305;m lan karde&#351;lerimizi öldürüyorlar onlar&#305; asimile tecavüz ediyorlar t&#305;rsma bu kadar kendine gel


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## Lux de Veritas

tesla said:


> china and pkk are communist terrorist bros good luck



The Turks who preach Pan Turkism are the worst abuser of human rights and oppressor of minorities in the whole Islamic civilization. They are a shame to Islam. The greatest genocide occur under Islamic civilization the Armenian/Christian genocide allegedly result to death of 2 millions are under the banner of pan Turkism.

If Pan Turkic has their way, all minorities in Xinjiang include Tajik will get shitt. 

How about Uighur compared to Armenians?


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## VelocuR

We have to find hard evidences if these evil act is belong to Indian terrorists or some associated from India who had 170 million Muslim under poverty levels. 

In fact, India intelligences export terrorisms to Pakistan and Afghanistan for routine blasts you see, why now China?

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## MertKaan

tesla said:


> china and pkk are communist terrorist bros good luck



actually we know that how they are terrorist lol u&#287;ra&#351;ma bunlarla zk kafal&#305; çin askeri i&#351;te  ve onlar&#305;n yalakalar&#305;

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## tesla

Lux de Veritas said:


> The Turks who preach Pan Turkism are the worst abuser of human rights and oppressor of minorities in the whole Islamic civilization. They are a shame to Islam. The greatest genocide occur under Islamic civilization the Armenian/Christian genocide allegedly result to death of 2 millions are under the banner of pan Turkism.
> 
> If Pan Turkic has their way, all minorities in Xinjiang include Tajik will get shitt.
> 
> How about Uighur compared to Armenians?



wtf there is no panturkism in history soviet leader stalin created firstly this word


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## VelocuR

could be US who stayed in Afghanistan to create trouble on China (west) and Russia (North) and Iran (South), Middle Easterns.


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## q12093487q

Lux de Veritas said:


> The Turks who preach Pan Turkism are the worst abuser of human rights and oppressor of minorities in the whole Islamic civilization. They are a shame to Islam. The greatest genocide occur under Islamic civilization the Armenian/Christian genocide allegedly result to death of 2 millions are under the banner of pan Turkism.
> 
> If Pan Turkic has their way, all minorities in Xinjiang include Tajik will get shitt.
> 
> How about Uighur compared to Armenians?



Even kazakhs in china don't buy this shitt,he will be surprised if he know how chinese kazakhs view Pan Turkic


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## Snomannen

MertKaan said:


> Do you know the country named "East Turkistan"?
> This area is usually called "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region", the People's Republic of China.
> This country has been invaded and is facing various suppressions by Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Specifically :
> 1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
> 2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
> 3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals".
> 
> The East Turkistan people are still under the oppression of China.
> The unique culture, language, and customs are beginning to fade by emigration of huge amount of Han people and ethnic cleansing policies.
> 
> Unfortunately this fact is not well known worldwide. However, even now the East Turkistan people are suffering.



I am telling you what the fact is:
1. Uyghur people as a minority have extra point in exam, especially when they write the exam in their own language.
2. Uyghur people are not included in the 1 Child Policy, yet many other ethnics have to follow this policy.
3. They are allowed to bring knifes with them in the public due to cultural protection.
4. The highest leaders of XUAR are Uyghurs. There are even many Uyghur people in the high position in the CCP.
5. When there is a crime related to Uyghur, the local government usually releases them in few days because they don't want people like you yelling "Chinese are evil they arrest our people!!!!" around. Such action always make other ethnics upset. 
6. Your data about "had killed a large amount of people" and "tens thousands of people were slaughtered" have no proof and are illogical nonsense. 

'Unfortunately' you said, well it is indeed "unfortunate". The CCP is treating the Uyghur people even better than the "main ethnic" Han, but unfortunately people know not much about it and some of them even playing the "brother and sister" game. They should really save their imagination, back to dream about their former Ottoman instead of annoying other countries' business.

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## VelocuR

Turks---focus on your own struggles and Secular/Islamist freedom fighters, Syria war, Kurds, and much more. 

Don't nose internal matter of China.


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## olcayto

RaptorRX707 said:


> Turks---focus on your own struggles and Secular/Islamist freedom fighters, Syria war, Kurds, and much more.
> 
> Don't nose internal matter of China.



You're the joke of the day mate.

Have shame.

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## tesla

q12093487q said:


> Even kazakhs in china don't buy this shitt,he will be surprised if he know how chinese kazakhs view Pan Turkic



pan turkism is a lie every time china and iran is using this methods and they are pressuring and using ideologic teror on turks via this game this is old soviet game

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## Lux de Veritas

tesla said:


> wtf there is no panturkism in history soviet leader stalin created firstly this word



Turks are the worst oppressor among all Muslim and they are a shame of Muslim. The Armenian genocide is the biggest disgrace to Islam. One of the most significant early exponents of pan-Turkism was Enver Pasha, the Ottoman Minister of War and acting Commander-in-Chief during World War I. 

The Pan Turk gangster kill every single minorities on their way, not just armenian but also Greece, Assyrian, Kurd, Alevi.

Uighur's East Turkestan is a very dangerous idea. They are far more atrocious than Dalai Lama. I support welcoming Dalai back China and give him a share of power in Tibet. But we need to take down Pan Turkism.

The Hui Muslim in China knows the Uighur way as Hui was originally Turks. They support Han Chinese all the way, and are willing to bleed themselves in order to support China. Their Iman even call for Jihad against Japan during WW2. 

Thanks to the Hui Muslim and the blood the spill in Kashgar 1933, Xinjiang is back to the big China family.

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## Snomannen

q12093487q said:


> Even kazakhs in china don't buy this shitt,he will be surprised if he know how chinese kazakhs view Pan Turkic



Right. There are only a few of Uighur who like to cause problem (The most funniest thing is, these people usually kill their own Uighur brothers, Han people are not even the first Victim). I have never heard about other ethnics in &#26032;&#30086; ever behavior like that. 
Also Kazakhs are great people. They always loyal to the whole family, just like Inner Mongolian.


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## MertKaan

olcayto said:


> You're the joke of the day mate.
> 
> Have shame.



he is *** licker
@Lux de Veritas*
The Hui Muslim in China knows the Uighur way as Hui was originally Turks << HAHAAA

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## itaskol

KirovAirship said:


> I am telling you what the fact is:
> 1. Uyghur people as a minority have extra point in exam, especially when they write the exam in their own language.
> 2. Uyghur people are not included in the 1 Child Policy, yet many other ethnics have to follow this policy.
> 3. They are allowed to bring knifes with them in the public due to cultural protection.
> 4. The highest leaders of XUAR are Uyghurs. There are even many Uyghur people in the high position in the CCP.
> 5. When there is a crime related to Uyghur, the local government usually releases them in few days because they don't want people like you yelling "Chinese are evil they arrest our people!!!!" around. Such action always make other ethnics upset.
> 6. Your data about "had killed a large amount of people" and "tens thousands of people were slaughtered" have no proof and are illogical nonsense.
> 
> 'Unfortunately' you said, well it is indeed "unfortunate". The CCP is treating the Uyghur people even better than the "main ethnic" Han, but unfortunately people know not much about it and some of them even playing the "brother and sister" game. They should really save their imagination, back to dream about their former Ottoman instead of annoying other countries' business.



these are the truth. and it is the reason why I think chinese goverment is weak and care too much on human rights of uyghurs....

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## olcayto

MertKaan said:


> he is *** licker



Mate he was like a flee sticking on the Turkish section when the protests broke out.

Annoying everyone in the section, by insulting cultural and religious values of Turkey.

And now he comes, don't interfere in internal matters of china. &#304;f a chinese would have said this &#304; would respect it.
But this guy is a plain joke.



itaskol said:


> these are the truth. and it is the reason why I think chinese goverment is weak and care too much on human rights of uyghurs....



Human rights?

http://www.amnesty.nl/nieuwsportaal/pers/disappearing-china-s-uighurs

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## Bobby

Terrorist's new destination of opportunity is China......Honeymoon is over for China

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## Snomannen

itaskol said:


> these are the truth. and it is the reason why I think chinese goverment is weak and care too much on human rights of uyghurs....



No no no, the government should do this since it is a fact that the CCP used to bring "unhappy history" to them (in fact, the CCP did something wrong to every single ethnics) but the problem is that people like those annoying outsiders like to spread rumors and take advantage of every single action from the CCP as actions of hurting uyghurs people. They are the really trouble.


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## cnleio

tesla said:


> china and pkk are communist terrorist bros good luck


No it's the human right, Kurds have their rights to build a Kurdish country just like u said support the East Turkistan. If u done like that, China also can support other minority to build their national state or autonomous region.

The Kurds and Uygur all can enjoy the same HUMAN RIGHT, arm the PKK yes we can. "Some heros or freedom fighters to kill evil invaders" THAT'S COOL ~!


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## olcayto

By the way &#304; condemn this attack that claimed innocent lives.

But &#304; support the uygurs in their struggle for more rights.


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## q12093487q

tesla said:


> pan turkism is a lie every time china and iran is using this methods and they are pressuring and using ideologic teror on turks via this game this is old soviet game



lying on what?Explain pls


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## itaskol

Bobby said:


> Terrorist's new destination of opportunity is China......Honeymoon is over for China


 why new? they are always there in china. just we dont call them terroristen in the past.


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## MertKaan

Bobby said:


> Terrorist's new destination of opportunity is China......Honeymoon is over for China



OO welcome Einstein what a smart man you are


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## -SINAN-

MertKaan said:


> Do you know the country named "East Turkistan"?
> This area is usually called "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region", the People's Republic of China.
> This country has been invaded and is facing various suppressions by Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Specifically :
> 1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
> 2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
> 3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals".
> 
> The East Turkistan people are still under the oppression of China.
> The unique culture, language, and customs are beginning to fade by emigration of huge amount of Han people and ethnic cleansing policies.
> 
> Unfortunately this fact is not well known worldwide. However, even now the East Turkistan people are suffering.



I didn't know these issues.

My blood began to boil now. 

What did we do and what are we doing now for our brethren ?

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## flamer84

RaptorRX707 said:


> is there CIA agents to create chaos and unrest situations in China after Snowden case?



Yes,they are suplying chinese muslims with kitchen knives,altough those same knives may be used one day against the USA

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## Gandhi G in da house

RIP to the deceased .

This cancer of religious terrorism has spread to China too 

Welcome to the party (sarcasm) China.

May the force be with you.


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## tesla

Lux de Veritas said:


> Turks are the worst oppressor among all Muslim and they are a shame of Muslim. The Armenian genocide is the biggest disgrace to Islam. One of the most significant early exponents of pan-Turkism was Enver Pasha, the Ottoman Minister of War and acting Commander-in-Chief during World War I.
> 
> The Pan Turk gangster kill every single minorities on their way, not just armenian but also Greece, Assyrian, Kurd, Alevi.
> 
> Uighur's East Turkestan is a very dangerous idea. They are far more atrocious than Dalai Lama. I support welcoming Dalai back China and give him a share of power in Tibet. But we need to take down Pan Turkism.
> 
> The Hui Muslim in China knows the Uighur way as Hui was originally Turks. They support Han Chinese all the way, and are willing to bleed themselves in order to support China. Their Iman even call for Jihad against Japan during WW2.
> 
> Thanks to the Hui Muslim and the blood the spill in Kashgar 1933, Xinjiang is back to the big China family.


dont bring enver pasha because he was a wacky leaders finally ataturk kicked him as for armenia genocide ottoman army fought armenia teror gangs and russians finaly they send armanians a lot of countries such as lebanon,syria,argentina,france there are a lot of armenia in those contries what a f..kind of genocide beside england france and russia killed a lot of muslims in ww1


----------



## q12093487q

Sinan said:


> I didn't know these issues.
> 
> My blood began to boil now.
> 
> What did we do and what are we doing now for our brethren ?



All you can do is coming to Xinjiang and talking to local uyghurs before believing these bulllshit,you are welcome


----------



## MertKaan

tesla said:


> dont bring enver pasha because he was a wacky leaders finally ataturk kicked him as for armenia genocide ottoman army fought armenia teror gangs and russians finaly they send armanians a lot of countries such as lebanon,syria,argentina,france there are a lot of armenia in those contries what a f..kind of genocide beside england france and russia killed a lot of muslims in ww1



Atlama böyle her&#351;eye görmüyon mu adam konuyu de&#287;i&#351;tiriyor ..


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## itaskol

olcayto said:


> But &#304; support the uygurs in their struggle for more rights.


what kind of more rights. I dont understand what rights these uyghurs really want to get?


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## tesla

MertKaan said:


> Atlama böyle her&#351;eye görmüyon mu adam konuyu de&#287;i&#351;tiriyor ..



adam propaganda yap&#305;yo burdaki gerizekal&#305;lar inan&#305;r yoksa adamlar türk tarihini bilmiyo ki la


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## Desertfalcon

I really try hard to be as pro-Islam as a Christian can. I have known plenty of Muslims that were decent and holy people, but it does seem that since the 1970-80's, something has infected Islam and turned it into a twisted thing. Yes, I know there is plenty to criticize in the Christian world, but in so many Islamic countries, it is not simply that evil exists, (It does everywhere.), but that the cultures and societies of so many Muslim countries, seem to embrace, or at the very least, turn a blind eye to it all. I posted this because a Pakistani friend who is Christian, posted this on Facebook today and I found it so disturbing...

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I mean, what the heck!?! Yes, something like that could happen in my country to Muslim women, but the full force of the police and the courts would pursue the evil-doers. My local community would demand severe punishment and the culprits would surely be sent to prison for a long stretch where other prisoners would give them a taste of their own medicine.


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## olcayto

itaskol said:


> what kind of more rights. I dont understand what rights these uyghurs really want to get?



I gave you a link right? 

Here by I give it again. 

Pers detail


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## q12093487q

olcayto said:


> I gave you a link right?
> 
> Here by I give it again.
> 
> Pers detail



No,the link above saying some is true some just not true.If you want to know the truth then talking to local uyghurs or learning chinese to see what uyghurs and han chinese viewing 7.5 on chinese internet


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## MertKaan

they just want live stop chinese terrorism @RaptorRX707 (*** licker)

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## Lux de Veritas

Western media never stop smearing against China. They forever try to smear shitt against China. Many even carry the news that Han Chinese shitt on Hui Muslim, and make it seems that Hui Muslim are eager to revolt. All these are bullshit. 

Today Uyghur terrorist like Rabia kadir is deemed as big freedom fighter by western countries. But western countries ignore the fact that all other minorities in Xinjiang do not support independence. They are Muslim as well. They are mainly the Kazakh, Kyrghiz, and Tajik. Except for the later who is Persian, the former 2 are Turkic.

No one make so much noise about "human right abuses" except for Uighur. 

Nevertheless I think there are serious human right abuses in China that China need to improve on, but it is not targeted against Uighur but China human right problem is a blank problem across the country. 

Nevertheless I think Chinese need better minorities policy. One policy I suggest would be to make it mandatory for Han Chinese to study one minority language. It can be any Turkic languages (can be Turkish, Uyghur/Uzbek, or Kazakh/Kyrghiz) or Tibetan.

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## Okemos

DV RULES said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/242643-xinjiang-focus-us-foreign-policy.html



The U.S. has been using bogus "human rights" claim to interfere into other countries' internal issues and EMBOLDENS separatist movements all over the world. Every group of people will have grievances one way or another, but the U.S. has been magnifying their grievances by hosting their leaders, giving huge amount of media attention; in turn, those groups will feel they are somehow entitled to better dealings than majority of population. 

In essence, the U.S. foreign policy has been giving those separatists/extremists moral support. The U.S. must learn that whatever its motivations are, a destabilizing world is not in its interest. It will taste its own medicine again.


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## q12093487q

MertKaan said:


> they just want live stop chinese terrorism



You failed again.
The first video was a child thief caught by locals in southern china I don&#8216;t remember the city
name
The second video is more fake&#65292;it&#8217;s some local villagers in guangdong caught two Feichedang thieves &#65292;I saw it on ku6.com 5 years ago.
I don&#8217;t appreciate this kind of beheavir but it has nothing to do with uyghurs.Pls learn some chinese before seeing these videos you will know how fake they are


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## Jayanta

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



The roots of almost every Islamic terrorist is one country, which is close to China. Almost all major terrorist organization either has training or some sort of association with that country, which is is being aided by your country not just financially but also by arming them with lethal weapon. 

Just take the USA for example, they armed the Mujahid's with weapons to fight a covert war against USSR. Now the same weapons are being used to kill American troops. Sooner or later helping the devil has its consequence. Hope China do not have to have the same fate as USA saw in the form of 9/11.


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## -SINAN-

MertKaan said:


> they just want live stop chinese terrorism @RaptorRX707 (*** licker)



Mate, i am so sad and angry right now. If only me and 10 my of buddies were there........

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## MertKaan

q12093487q said:


> You failed again.The first video was a child thief caught by locals in southern china I don&#8216;t remember the city name
> The second video is more bullshitt&#65292;it&#8217;s some local villagers in guangzhou caught two local thieves &#65292;I saw it on ku6.com 5 years ago.it&#8216;s terrible i admit &#65292;but it has nothing to do with uyghurs.Pls learn some chinese before seeing these videos you will know how fake they are



NO COMMENT SHAME ON YOU


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## q12093487q

Sinan said:


> Mate, i am so sad and angry right now. If only me and 10 my of buddies were there........



Did you saw my post in 313 &#65311;I am sad and angry too when someone edit fake video again and again


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## MertKaan

q12093487q said:


> Did you saw my post in 313 &#65311;I am sad and angry too when someone edit fake video again and again

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## q12093487q

MertKaan said:


> NO COMMENT SHAME ON YOU



Shame on the truth&#65311;why&#65311;

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## q12093487q

MertKaan said:


>



This video is true.It happened in 25 June 2009. Shaoguan city .Guangdong province in XURI factory.
But it happened after someone being told a uyghur worker raped a local girl 
I don't know if it was true and who were right who were wrong.
Let's hope things like that not happen again


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## David James

While terriorism of any kind is bad.

The Chinese govt. should also hear the genuity and vacate the land of East Turkmenistan people. 

If you forcefully occupy their land some one get agitated or radical and get exploited by the extremist.


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## David James

MertKaan said:


> NO COMMENT SHAME ON YOU



Turkish people should raise the awareness about the East Turkmenistan Issue in Turkey at very large scale and educate about the atrocities and occupation of their land.


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## Okemos

Please leave this Pan Turk crap out of this thread. I thought we are humans, not dogs that like to pee around and mark territories everywhere. No offense intended. But this Pan Turk crap just annoys the heck out of me. If every ethnicity behaves like Turks here, we would see all kinds of violence everywhere since we humans have migrated and integrated so much in history and small pockets of minorities live almost everywhere in the world now.


----------



## zxmint

iranigirl2 said:


> As a muslim , I totally agree with you. I'm so disgusted by these Turkic Muslims in China, I've the seen videos online, they are like savages.
> 
> 
> But I just want you to know that a lot minority Muslims also suffer from violent attacks. So, please don't assume all muslims are the same.
> 
> 
> Majority groups also suffer daily attacks by terrorists.
> 
> 
> I support the Chinese government to control these people. They are not acting like Muslims. They act like savages.
> 
> 
> Unfortunately the Islamic world is going through a dark period right now.
> 
> Muslims are so easily manipulated by outside forces.
> 
> 
> Take a look at Syria, I call it Jihad for *Imam CIA.*
> 
> 
> Poverty and ignorance breeds extremism. The Chinese government should continue to develop the area , it might take a generation of two but things will get better.



Economy is just one thing and Xinjiang is actually developing well in this a few decades. You know what, when those people get richer, they go abroad to accept terror training and organize more attacks. So the extreme thoughts or beliefs are the roots of evil. And China government must make some minority people know that they are Chinese people first no matter what their religion belief is and what ethnic group they belong to.


----------



## zxmint

David James said:


> While terriorism of any kind is bad.
> 
> The Chinese govt. should also hear the genuity and vacate the land of East Turkmenistan people.
> 
> If you forcefully occupy their land some one get agitated or radical and get exploited by the extremist.


You need to do some homework when you know nothing about it. Xinjiang is "their" land? Check out how many years the Uyghur ethnic group exists and when Han people took control of Xinjiang! And WTF of " Eastern Turkish"? Can terrorists create a ethnic group by themselves?


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## Bobby

So finally they reached China....

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## zxmint

RaptorRX707 said:


> is there CIA agents to create chaos and unrest situations in China after Snowden case?


They never stop doing that for decades


----------



## nastikan

Bobby said:


> So finally they reached China....



WTF? why do you have a laughter emoticon?


----------



## zxmint

MertKaan said:


> actualy we have heard chinese boys raped two uygurs girls so uygur riots began in 2009 lol


Consider more about your country first. Looking forward to be another Syria.


----------



## Audio

Okemos said:


> I thought we are humans, not dogs that like to pee around and mark territories everywhere.



You think wrong. It's like in the old days, about control. Just that today control can be exerted in more subtle ways.


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## cnleio

Chechnya for Russia, and XinJiang for China. There's no room for negotiation, except Nuclear War of WWIII.

So anyone try to openly support East Turkestan, that must be the enemy of China, and Chinese make sure do never let the country living in PEACE. We will find troubles and work together with his enemy and potential enemy by providing funds and weapons. Any conflict in that country would be the good chance for China to use, and 'Norinco' guns will appear in ur rebels.

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## Silverblaze

muse said:


> Silver any info on who is funding these terrorists? or Where they train?



Oh these groups find internal money as well as external. For instance, in Pakistan in Swat, Fazl ullah received many donations from the people there as they believed he was just ( this tells you the failure of the state of Pakistan). 

Another example is the Baloch rebel groups who have support base in Oman because many baloch live there and quite a few see them as just. Our dear neighbour also contributes whenever it can to maintain a low insurgency. 

What can a state do?

A state must realize that it has matchless power in its territory and these groups can't really bother it. It has got to alienate these groups by solving social issues. 

For instance, during Zia rule, Balochistan was quite calm. Zia like a fox realized that the Baloch needed to be kept quite to fight a war in Afghanistan by delivering amnesty to less hardcore groups, employment to common people and building some infrastructure. 

Even his cosmetic efforts worked.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Pan-Turkism is dead, today's government of Turkey is much more pragmatic and realistic of not keep buying this dysfunctional idea.


----------



## Wholegrain

David James said:


> While terriorism of any kind is bad.
> 
> The Chinese govt. should also hear the genuity and vacate the land of East Turkmenistan people.
> 
> If you forcefully occupy their land some one get agitated or radical and get exploited by the extremist.



I agree, China shouldn't be in Turkmenistan. in fact, it isn't 

Turkmenistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Uyghurs are only native to the southern Xinjiang in the tarim basin. The natives in northern xinjiang aka Dzungharia are Zunghars. So if every ethnic group gets its own country, all the Uyghurs will have to be deported from northern xinjiang to the south.



cnleio said:


> Chechnya for Russia, and XinJiang for China. There's no room for negotiation, except Nuclear War of WWIII.
> 
> So anyone try to openly support East Turkestan, that must be the enemy of China, and Chinese make sure do never let the country living in PEACE. We will find troubles and work together with his enemy and potential enemy by providing funds and weapons. Any conflict in that country would be the good chance for China to use, and 'Norinco' guns will appear in ur rebels.



Wrong analogy. The Chagatai Prince, and the Turkic Muslim Khans, begs, mullahs, religious clerics and the Naqshbandi Qarataghlik Khoja Sayyids voluntarily joined China to seek protection against the Dzunghars. This is why Xinjiang is part of China. China even kept the entire religious clergy and aristocracy intact. The last Chagataid Khan died in 1930.

On the other hand, Czarist Russia started an unwelcome, genocidal invasion of Chechnya and killed over half the Chechen population. They were never asked to enter Chechnya or take it under their protection. They just wanted the land for themselves.

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## Wholegrain

MertKaan said:


>



@Sinan

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books



> Foreign tourists in Urumchi today sometimes complain that the city is "too Chinese" in comparison with the Central Asian atmosphere of southern Xinjiang; many believe Urumchi's East Turkestani culture has been erased by Han immigration and architecture. *In fact, the Uyghur population and culture in the city today is a relatively recent feature, for Urumchi in its first decades in most respects resembled a north Chinese town, populated primarily by Tungans from Gansu and Shaanxi and Han from many Chinese provinces, in addition to the bannermen*.



*The name "Urumqi" itself is from the Zunghar Mongol language, NOT Uyghur*

*Northern Xinjiang (Dzungharia) was the home of the Zunghar Khanate and Uyghurs were never native to Dzungharia which includes Urumqi. The Uyghur immigrants who were moved there from the Tarim Basin after the Zunghar Khanate was defeated.*

Zunghar Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*If you are an immigrant, you don't get special treatment or get to complain about "rights", when you are squatting on someone elses land.*

*Now how is the Kurdish population in Istanbul doing? Do they get special rights in Istanbul since they all migrated from eastern anatolia? Why should the descendants of Uyghur immigrants from the Tarim Basin be allowed to riot in the streets and kill and beat people?*


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## ChineseTiger1986

The Uighurs are part of China's Xinjiang, but that abomination East Turkistan never existed, it only exists in some people's imagination.

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## Wholegrain

MertKaan said:


> he is *** licker
> @Lux de Veritas*
> The Hui Muslim in China knows the Uighur way as Hui was originally Turks << HAHAAA


 @olcayto

Exploring Nationalisms of China: Themes and Conflicts - Google Books

Hui people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> *Pan-Turkic Uyghur activist Masud Sabri viewed the Hui people as Muslim Han chinese and separate from his own people, noting that with the exception of religion, their customs and language were identical with Han chinese[7]*
> 
> The Hui people are of varied ancestry,[8] and many are direct descendants of Silk Road travelers. Their ancestors include Central Asian, Arabs, and Persian who married Han Chinese.



Hui Muslims crushing the Uyghur First East Turkestan Republic-

Battle of Kashgar (1934) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Charkhlik Revolt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## ChineseTiger1986

Wholegrain, are you a Taiwanese of Hui descent?


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## Armstrong

@ChineseTiger1986 @Wholegrain - I was in Singapore the other week & I visited one of their water parks; they had a whole attraction centered around Admiral Zeng He - a Chinese Muslim from the 14th Century, unless I'm mistaken ! Do you guys have something similar in China ?

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## Wholegrain

tesla said:


> China is exploiting east turkistan rich natural resources and irreligious china government is killing turkic muslims and to assimilate uyghurs via immigrant policies this is a state terrorism shame





MertKaan said:


> Do you know the country named "East Turkistan"?
> This area is usually called "Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region", the People's Republic of China.
> This country has been invaded and is facing various suppressions by Chinese Communist Party.
> 
> Specifically :
> 1) Millions of people are forced to get abortion under the name of "Family Planning".
> 2) More than 45 nuclear tests and radioactivities had killed a large amount of people.
> 3) Several tens thousands of people were slaughtered for being claimed as "political criminals".
> 
> The East Turkistan people are still under the oppression of China.
> The unique culture, language, and customs are beginning to fade by emigration of huge amount of Han people and ethnic cleansing policies.
> 
> Unfortunately this fact is not well known worldwide. However, even now the East Turkistan people are suffering.



@olcayto

I can debunk all of your BS very quickly

-Exempt from one child policy

-Uyghur is an official language in Xinjiang. 

-Uyghur population grew from 4 million in the 1960s to 10 million today.

-Almost all Han migrants in Xinjiang live in northern Xinjiang (dzungharia), which is the former land of the Zunghar Mongols and Zunghar Khanate. It is not Uyghur land. Uyghurs are native to the tarim basin only in southern Xinjiang. Uyghurs in Dzungharia are also migrants and erasing the original Dzunghar culture.

-Only Uyghur have this separatist problem, there are no separatists among Salar Turkic Muslims (who are descended from immigrants from Turkmenistan 700 years ago, they admit that their ancestry is immigrant and don't make up fairy tales about being native to Qinghai for 10,000 years like some Uyghur nationalists do in northern Xinjiang)

The Salars have adapted to their host country, their blood is mixed with Chinese and Tibetans. They use Chinese first and last names and their language is also influenced by Chinese and Tibetan. Their Islam is Sinicized and they share it with Hui and Dongxiang.

Salars fought against Japan in World War 2 along with Hui and Dongxiang.

??????--?-?-??

Hui and Salars also fought against the Uyghur insurgents in the Ili Rebellion.


----------



## cnleio

Wholegrain said:


> Wrong analogy. The Chagatai Prince, and the Turkic Muslim Khans, begs, mullahs, religious clerics and the Naqshbandi Qarataghlik Khoja Sayyids voluntarily joined China to seek protection against the Dzunghars. This is why Xinjiang is part of China. China even kept the entire religious clergy and aristocracy intact. The last Chagataid Khan died in 1930.
> 
> On the other hand, Czarist Russia started an unwelcome, genocidal invasion of Chechnya and killed over half the Chechen population. They were never asked to enter Chechnya or take it under their protection. They just wanted the land for themselves.


Okay, i don't care in the history how XinJiang joined China or like Russian simply killed all ppl took the lands. I just tell someguy there's no way to separate XinJiang areas from China, and China has many ways to support the same trouble minority or reble inside his country who openly support fantasy East Turkestan in China. 
China has the money, the weapons, the time to force a country going down and deep into endless domesitc conflicts. First his Rebel guerrillas is the best choice !


----------



## q12093487q

Armstrong said:


> @ChineseTiger1986 @Wholegrain - I was in Singapore the other week & I visited one of their water parks; they had a whole attraction centered around Admiral Zeng He - a Chinese Muslim from the 14th Century, unless I'm mistaken ! Do you guys have something similar in China ?


Zheng He himself was a muslim or not is still a myth,but he was definitely from a muslim family

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## Wholegrain

@Silverblaze

China also runs two separate schools systems in Xinjiang. One is Uyghur language schools where holidays including Ramadan are implemented. The other is mandarin language schools like the rest of China. Uyghurs are allowed to attend either school of their choice, its not apartheid since they can join either one. Some of them choose to atten the Mandarin school and then people lie that China is forcing all schools to make students eat during Ramadan.


----------



## Gandhi G in da house

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Pan-Turkism is dead, today's government of Turkey is much more pragmatic and realistic of not keep buying this dysfunctional idea.



Yes , the current Turkish government is more into Pan Sunni Islamism now.


----------



## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Wholegrain, are you a Taiwanese of Hui descent?



I'm from Taiwan but I'm not hui.

@


----------



## Okemos

q12093487q said:


> Zheng He himself was a muslim or not is still a myth,but he was definitely from a muslim family



I don't know what significance his religion has with respect to the person and his contribution. He was sailing the world for the empire, not for Islam. He was selected by the Ming Emperor based on his merit, not his religion. He didn't go around the world in the name of Islam or to preach about Islam. His religious affiliation was not even recorded in history book.

Again, China is and has always been a secular country. We do not select and differentiate people based on religion. To glorify one religion over another just because some prominent figure is from that religion is against secularism and will only create conflicts in the long run.


----------



## SenLin

Such incidents will make more Han-Chinese dislike Islam & make them turn to Christianity instead, which is already very strong growing.


----------



## Okemos

SenLin said:


> Such incidents will make more Han-Chinese dislike Islam & make them turn to Christianity instead, which is already very strong growing.



mm, turn to Christianity because of those incidents? no. Christianity and Islam are both in conflict with Chinese ancestral worship, so both religions wont grow strong among Han Chinese at least. Of course, there are certain pockets of people that will be converted in to either religion, but ancestral worship is kind of built into our psyche among most people.


----------



## Armstrong

Okemos said:


> I don't know what significance his religion has with respect to the person and his contribution. He was sailing the world for the empire, not for Islam. He was selected by the Ming Emperor based on his merit, not his religion. He didn't go around the world in the name of Islam or to preach about Islam. His religious affiliation was not even recorded in history book.
> 
> Again, China is and has always been a secular country. We do not select and differentiate people based on religion. To glorify one religion over another just because some prominent figure is from that religion is against secularism and will only create conflicts in the long run.



I didn't mean anything by it....I simply found his story interesting & wondered whether China has 'attractions' in his remembrance or not as Singapore does ?


----------



## Wholegrain

SenLin said:


> Such incidents will make more Han-Chinese dislike Islam & make them turn to Christianity instead, which is already very strong growing.



I disagree. These incidents have nothing to do with peoples religious choices. You have to acquire BELIEF in something to convert. They may dislike Muslims but not Islam.

Evangelical protestant christianity is growing among poorly educated people its no suprise, but they will eventually distort the religion and turn it into cults like Taiping rebels did.


----------



## Okemos

Armstrong said:


> I didn't mean anything by it....I simply found his story interesting & wondered whether China has 'attractions' in his remembrance or not as Singapore does ?



Quanzhou &#65288;&#27849;&#24030;&#65289;in Fujian province, the largest port at that time, might have some statutes. That's the port where he departed.

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## Armstrong

Wholegrain said:


> I disagree. These incidents have nothing to do with peoples religious choices. You have to acquire BELIEF in something to convert. They may dislike Muslims but not Islam.
> 
> Evangelical protestant christianity is growing among poorly educated people its no suprise, but they will eventually distort the religion and turn it into cults like Taiping rebels did.



If I may ask - Are you a Muslim yourself, brother ?


----------



## Kompromat

No news source posted?
@Okemos


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## Wholegrain

Armstrong said:


> If I may ask - Are you a Muslim yourself, brother ?



No. 

........... I had to lengthen this post because I need at least ten characters for it to get through.

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## VelocuR

Kindly tell me what did China doing harm on Turkey. Oh yes, Turkey is protecting Western interests and doing anything favors for them. 

There is no dictionary word for East Turkistan.



MertKaan said:


> they just want live stop chinese terrorism @RaptorRX707 (*** licker)

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## LURKER

Twenty seven people were killed today in riots, apparently involving native Uygur Muslims and Han Chinese migrants, in China's volatile Xinjiang province.Knife-wielding mobs attacked the township's police stations, the local government building and a construction site, stabbing people and setting police cars on fire, officials with Xinjiang's regional committee of the Communist Party of China said.

Riots which took place in remote Lukqun township of Shanshan County in Turpan Prefecture left 27 people dead, according to a report in state-run Xinhua news agency.

Seventeen people had been killed -- including nine policemen or security guards and eight civilians  before police opened fire and shot dead 10 rioters, the officials said on condition of anonymity. Three rioters were detained and police were chasing those who had fled, the officials said without clarifying how many were at large.

Three people were injured by the mobs and were being treated at a local hospital. The Xinhua report did not identify the people but the province has been witnessing periodic violence as Uygurs have been protesting the migration of Hans into the province.

Xinjaing, which borders Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (***) is experiencing a major conflict between nine million Uygurs and Han Chinese settlers, whose numbers have now grown over 40 per cent of the population of the province.

China has deployed large number of security forces to deal with separatist East Turkistan Islamic Movement, (ETIM), which according to Chinese security forces is connected with al-Qaeda.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/27-killed-in-riots-in-chinas-xinjiang-province/1134059/

Riots in China's Xinjiang province kill dozens | World news | guardian.co.uk

PressTV - Ethnic riots kill 27 in in China's Xinjiang


----------



## Genesis

LURKER said:


> Twenty seven people were killed today in riots, apparently involving native Uygur Muslims and Han Chinese migrants, in China's volatile Xinjiang province.Knife-wielding mobs attacked the township's police stations, the local government building and a construction site, stabbing people and setting police cars on fire, officials with Xinjiang's regional committee of the Communist Party of China said.
> 
> Riots which took place in remote Lukqun township of Shanshan County in Turpan Prefecture left 27 people dead, according to a report in state-run Xinhua news agency.
> 
> Seventeen people had been killed -- including nine policemen or security guards and eight civilians &#8211; before police opened fire and shot dead 10 rioters, the officials said on condition of anonymity. Three rioters were detained and police were chasing those who had fled, the officials said without clarifying how many were at large.
> 
> Three people were injured by the mobs and were being treated at a local hospital. The Xinhua report did not identify the people but the province has been witnessing periodic violence as Uygurs have been protesting the migration of Hans into the province.
> 
> Xinjaing, which borders Pakistan Occupied Kashmir (***) is experiencing a major conflict between nine million Uygurs and Han Chinese settlers, whose numbers have now grown over 40 per cent of the population of the province.
> 
> China has deployed large number of security forces to deal with separatist East Turkistan Islamic Movement, (ETIM), which according to Chinese security forces is connected with al-Qaeda.
> 
> 27 killed in riots in China's Xinjiang province - Indian Express
> 
> Riots in China's Xinjiang province kill dozens | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> PressTV - Ethnic riots kill 27 in in China's Xinjiang



Well only a matter of time before human rights issues are raised regardless of if crimes were committed first. If people raided a US police station, 27 would not be the number of dead.


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## Zero_wing

Karma in the highest level


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Okemos said:


> I am sorry, but why are people of Islam religion so violent? China's peripheral areas are populated by minorities, but only Xinjiang has constant violence.
> 
> No matter how politically incorrect it might sound, Islam really need to look into what they have been preaching to their believers!



WTF..people like to cry like baby..this event has nothing to do with Islam.

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## Wholegrain

Zero_wing said:


> Karma in the highest level



I agree, its Karma since all the terrorists were killed after their attack, they got what was coming to them.


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## Kompromat

What is the reason behind the riots?


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## nastikan

R


Aeronaut said:


> What is the reason behind the riots?



Over settling and domination of Han population in the region, official discrimination against practicing Muslims , curbs on Muslim religious practices, appointing of imams by the communist government and the list goes on.

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## Wholegrain

@ChinaToday @ChineseTiger1986 @Chinese-Dragon @ChinaToday @shuttler

The same accusation that Han people are demographically swamping Uyghurs has been repeated around over 1,000 times already and is widespread in the western and other media hostile to China (India etc.)

Xinjiang is made out of two distinct regions which were not culturally or politically linked until China put them together in one province. They are Dzungharia (mostly Ili) and the Tarim Basin. Dzungharia is steppe and was traditionally home to nomads and nomadic empires. The Tarim Basin is made out of Oases and home to sedentary people.

Han Chinese have almost entirely migrated to Dzungharia and not the Tarim Basin. Nearly the entire Han population in Xinjiang lives in Dzungharia. The Uyghurs are not natives to Dzungharia but immigrants from the Tarim so both Han and Uyghurs in Dzungharia are immigrants.

The Uyghurs are native to the Tarim Basin, which is in southern Xinjiang only. It is the former territory of the Chagatai Khanate. The Uyghurs were sedentary Turkic speaking farmers in the Oaseses of the Tarim. Before the Soviets gave them the name "Uyghur" in 1921 they were not known as Uyghurs but as Turkis in the west. They called themselves Sart, which meant a sedentary Turkic speaking Muslim, or by the Oases they came from. If they came from Turpan they would be Turpanlk. Their language was called Eastern Turki or Chagatai. The Tarim Basin was also known as Moghulistan (Mongol land) since the Chagatais were descendants of Genghis Khan.

Dzungharia is in northern Xinjiang. It was home to the Dzunghar Oirat Mongols who were a nomadic, Lamaist Buddhist people. Their state was the Zunghar Khanate. The name of Xinjiang's capital Urumqi is from the Dzunghar, not the Uyghur language.

In the Chagatai Khanate, the Chagataid Khan and princes were the secular rulers. The religious leaders were the Sayyid Naqshbandi Khojas. There were two factions of Khojas, the Qarataghliks and Aqtaghliks. The Qarataghliks and the Chagatai Khan expelled the Aqtaghliks from power. The Aqtaghliks sought aid from the Buddhist Zunghar Khanate, which then attacked the Chagatai Khanate, installed the Aqtaghliks as puppets and forced the turkic population into submission and paying tribute.

The Chagataid Turks and Qarataghlik Khojas then turned to China for aid. China and the Turkic muslims (Uyghur ancestors) launched a massive campaign the Dzunghars in 1758-1759 and nearly exterminated the entire Zunghar population. Only tens of thousands are still left in Xinjiang.

The Zunghar Khanate was then absorbed into China, and the Chagatai prince, the Qarataghlik Khojas and the Turkic Khans and Begs then submitted to Chinese rule and the Tarim Basin also became part of China. The Aqtaghlik Khojas were bitter about their loss and tried to forment rebellion but were defeated.

China then settled in the place of the decimated Dzunghar population, thousands of Han, Hui, Manchus, Xibo, and Turkic Muslims from the Tarim Basin (uyghurs ancestors). Those turkic muslims became known as the Taranchi and the Uyghurs in modern Dzungharia are their descendants. Very few Han migrated into the Uyghurs native Tarim basin.

Urumqi was originally a Han and Hui (Tungan) city with few Uyghurs. Its the Uyghurs who are the immigrants.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books



> Foreign tourists in Urumchi today sometimes complain that the city is "too Chinese" in comparison with the Central Asian atmosphere of southern Xinjiang; many believe Urumchi's East Turkestani culture has been erased by Han immigration and architecture. *In fact, the Uyghur population and culture in the city today is a relatively recent feature, for Urumchi in its first decades in most respects resembled a north Chinese town, populated primarily by Tungans from Gansu and Shaanxi and Han from many Chinese provinces, in addition to the bannermen*.



The Qing administed the Dzungharia and the Tarim basin as separate regions. The north (dzungharia) used to be called &#22825;&#23665;&#21271;&#36335; tianshan beilu and the south (Tarim Basin) was &#22825;&#23665;&#21335;&#36335; tianshan nanlu. 

Those two distinct areas, Dzungharia (tianshan beilu) and Tarim Basin (tianshan nanlu) were combined to form Xinjiang province in 1884 by the Chinese government. Ever since then its been regarded as a single province,

This is an old book from 200 years ago. Soungaria is Dzungharia and Turkestan refers to the Tarim Basin only

China ; Political, Commercial, and Social: In an Official Report to Her ... - Robert Montgomery Martin - Google Books



> The government of Soungaria and Turkestan is of three kinds: 1st. In the easternmost districts of Soungaria, Barkoul, and Orountchi, it is much the same as China, and these districts have been incorporated with the province of Kansuh; 2nd. In the western districts around Ele, where the Chinese convicts are sent, it is strictly military, being occupied by Mantchou troops, who are considered as inhabitants of the soil; they are commanded by a general and subordinate officers, whose authority extends to the eastern districts, and to Turkestan; in Turkestan, the government is left in the hands of the native nobles, who are Begs of different degrees of rank, under the control of Chinese residents at the principal cities.



More...

The book of the world - Richard Swainson Fisher - Google Books



> That part of the empire called Hi is a vast region, lying on each side of the Tien-shan, or Celestial Mountains, and including a tract nearly as large as Mongolia, and not much more susceptible of cultivation. The limits extend from 36° to 49° N , and from longitude 71° to 96° E. It is divided by the Tien-shan into two parts called " lu," or circuits, viz.: Tien-shanpeh-lu and Tien-shan-nan-lu, or north and south of the Celestial Mountains. The former is commonly denominated Songaria, from the Songares its former rulers, and the latter is known as Little Bokara, or Eastern Turkestan. Hi, taken as a whole, may be regarded as an inland isthmus, extending south-west from the south of Siberia, off between the Gobi and Caspian deserts, till it reaches the Hindoo-Kush, leading down to the valley of the Indus. The former of these deserts encloses it on the east and south, and the other on the west and north-west, separated from each other by the Belur-tag and the Muz-tag ranges, which join with the Celestial Mountains that divide the isthmus itself into two parts. These deserts united are equal to the extent of Sahara, but are not as arid and tenantless. Little is known of the topography, productions, or civilization of the tribes, but the efforts of the Chinese have been systematically directed to developing the agricultural resources of the country, by stationing troops in every part, who cultivate the soil, and by banishing criminals thereto, who are obliged to work for, and assist the soldiers. The productions are numerous. Wheat, barley, rice, and millet are the chief grains; tobacco, cotton, and fruits are grown; herds of horses, camels, cattle and sheep, afford means of locomotion and food for the people, while the mountains and lakes supply game and fish. The inhabitants are composed mostly of Eleuths, Mongols, Manchus, Chinese, and several native tribes. The government is under the control of the Manchu military officers residing at Hi.
> 
> Tien-shan-peh-lu is divided into three commandaries. Hi on the west, Tarbagatai on the north, and Kur-kara-usu on the east, between Hi and Oroumtsi, in Kansuh. The districts of Tarbagatai and Kur-kara-usu are small compared with Hi.
> 
> Tien-shan-nan-lu, or southern circuit of Hi, also named Sin-kiang or new frontier, has been called Little Bokhara and Chinese or Eastern Turkestan, by foreigners. It is less fertile than the Northern Circuit, the greatest part of iis area being rugged mountains and barren wastes. The Tarim flows through it from west to east, from the Belur-tag to Lop-nor, a lake lying on the edge ot the desert. No other river basins of any size are found within the circuit. The climate is exceedingly dry, and its barrenness is owing more to the want of moisture than to the nature of the soil. The productions of the valley of Tarim comprise most of the grains and fruits of Southern Europe. The mountains and marshes contains jackals, tigers, bears, wolves, &c. Gold, copper, and iron, are brought from this region ; but as articles of trade they are less important than the sal-ammoniac, saltpetre, sulphur, and asbestos, obtained in the volcanic region on the east of the Celestial mountains. The present divisions of this circuit are regulated by the position of the "eight Mahomedan cities," viz: Harashar, Kuche, Ushi, (including Sairim and Bai,) Oksu, Khoten, Yarkand, Cashgar, and Yingeshar. The superior officers reside at Yarkand, but the southern circuit is divided into four minor governments at Harashar, Ushi, Yarkand, and Khoten.
> 
> The government of Hi differs in some respects from that of Mongolia, where religion is partly called in to aid the state. In the northern circuit the authority is strictly military. The supreme command of the whole of Hi is entrusted by the colonial office to a Manchu, "tsiang-kiun," or military governor-general, resident at Kuldsha, who has under him two councillors to take cognizance of civil cases, and 31 residents scattered about in both circuits. The governor also commands the troops of Kansuh, but has nothing to do with the civil jurisdiction. The revenue is derived from a capitation tax and tithes on produce. There are no transit duties as in China, but custom-houses are established at the frontier trading ports. The character of the inhabitants north of the Tien-shan is rendered unlike that of those dwelling in the southern circuit by the diversity in their language and nomadic habits, more than by the sway religious rites and allegiance have over them. The language generally used in the south is the Jaghatai Turki of the Kalmucks. The Usbecks constitute the majority of the people, but Eleuths and Kalmucks are everywhere intermixed. The Tibetans have settled in Khoten, or more probably remnants still exist there of the former inhabitants.



Here are souces on how the Qing dynasty colonized Dzungharia with BOTH Han and Taranchis (Uyghur ancestors) from Tarim oases like Aksu and other peoples like Manchus, Xibe and others. Both Han and Uyghurs are not native and are immigrants.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia - Peter C Perdue - Google Books

State Capitalism, Contentious Politics and Large-Scale Social Change - Google Books

Now in modern times since 1950, China has directed most Han immigration into Dzungharia (and alot of development as well). The majority of Han in Xinjiang a NOT on Uyghur native land and both Han and Uyghurs in Dzungharia are immigrants. The Dzunghars are the natives and they are almost extinct. The Uyghurs are the majority in their native tarim basin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang#Demographics



> At the start of the 19th century, 40 years after the Qing reconquest, there were around 155,000 Han and Hui Chinese in northern Xinjiang and somewhat more than twice that number of Uyghurs in southern Xinjiang.[79] A census of the time tabulated ethnic shares of the population as 60% Turkic and 30% Han.[80] Before 1831 only a few hundred Chinese merchants lived in southern Xinjiang oases (Tarim Basin), and only a few Uyghurs lived in northern Xinjiang (Dzungaria).[81] After 1831 the Qing permitted and encouraged Han Chinese migration into the Tarim basin in southern Xinjiang, although with very little success, and stationed permanent troops on the land there as well.[82] Political killings and expulsions of non Uyghur populations in the uprisings of the 1860s[82] and 1930s saw them experience a sharp decline as a percentage of the total population[83] though they rose once again in the periods of stability following 1880 (which saw Xinjiang increase its population from 1.2 million)[84][85] and 1949. From a low of 7% in 1953, the Han began to return to Xinjiang between then and 1964, where they comprised 33% of the population (54% Uyghur), similarly to Qing times. A decade later, at the beginning of the Chinese economic reform in 1978, the demographic balance was 46% Uyghur and 40% Han;[80] this has not changed drastically until the last census in 2000, with the Uyghur population reduced to 42%.[86] Military personnel are not counted and national minorities are undercounted in the Chinese census, as in most censuses.[87] While some of the shift has be attributed to an increased Han presence,[88] Uyghurs have also emigrated to other parts of China, where their numbers have increased steadily. Uyghur independence activists express concern over the Han population changing the Uyghur character of the region,* though the Han and Hui Chinese mostly live in northern Xinjiang Dzungaria, and are separated from areas of historical Uyghur dominance south of the Tian Shan mountains (southwestern Xinjiang), where Uyghurs account for about 90% of the population.[89]*
> 
> In general, Uyghurs are the majority in southwestern Xinjiang, including the prefectures of Kashgar, Khotan, Kizilsu, and Aksu (about 80% of Xinjiang's Uyghurs live in those four prefectures), as well as Turpan prefecture in eastern Xinjiang. Han are the majority in eastern and northern Xinjiang (Dzungaria), including the cities of Urumqi, Karamay, Shihezi and the prefectures of Changjyi, Bortala, Bayin'gholin, Ili (especially the cities of Kuitun), and Kumul. Kazakhs are mostly concentrated in Ili prefecture in northern Xinjiang. Kazakhs are the majority in the northernmost part of Xinjiang.



Red is Dzungharia and Blue is the Tarim Basin.







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_Khanate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungaria

Tarim Basin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_people

The Chagatai Khanate






Here are maps on qing Xinjiang which was divided into Tianshan beilu (dzungharia) and tianshan nanlu (tarim basin, also called eastern turkestan)
















Before the Qing dynasty conquered the Ming dynasty, Dzungharia was part of the Zunghar Oirat Khanate and Tarim was part of the Chagatai Khanate

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## ptoss1

So why are the Uyghurs angry?
Do they really expect to get their own country?
What?
Don't they know what happened in Tibet?
They're getting off much better than they were a few years ago.


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## Wholegrain

ptoss1 said:


> So why are the Uyghurs angry?
> Do they really expect to get their own country?
> What?
> Don't they know what happened in Tibet?
> They're getting off much better than they were a few years ago.



This thread is not about separatism or independence, its just about clearing up false accusations of demographic swamping.

If a person supports independence for whatever reason or even for no reason other than them hating China, but doesn't lie about China swamping the Uyghurs in their "native land" with Han immigrants, then whatever, they aren't in charge of anything. I don't care then.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Both Hans and Uighurs just got fed up by those foreign supported terrorists, so those terrorists must die.

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## northeast

Great Qing empire took so large land in the north and west.it's definitely the strongest empire in the whole Chinese story.


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## Wholegrain

northeast said:


> Great Qing empire took so large land in the north and west.it's definitely the strongest empire in the whole Chinese story.



Do not forget that most was voluntarily joined. The Turkic Muslims and their leaders, the Chagatai Prince and Sayyid Naqshbandi Qarataghlik Khojas joined China for protection against the Buddhist Dzunghars. The Khalkha Mongols joined voluntarily and the Dalai Lamas submitted the Qing rule after the Qing defeated anti China elements who were warring in Tibet and restored the then ruling Dalai Lama to power.

Only the Dzunghars and their Aqtaghlik Khoja puppets were involuntarily conquered and defeated.

One of the Chagatai Princes even ruled Kumul into the Republic of China era and was still loyal to China. He died in 1930.

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## grandmaster

I think china government should establish a news agency that does the same jobs like this. that news agency will tell the world the bad things about india, the west and japan. or at least analyzing the plots of western in every international issues.

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## gpit

ptoss1 said:


> So why are the Uyghurs angry?
> Do they really expect to get their own country?
> What?
> Don't they know what happened in Tibet?
> They're getting off much better than they were a few years ago.




Don't attempt to tell us that Han Chinese people are not angry (at the government, for instance).

Uyghur&#8217;s' country is China. They have their country.

BTW, when are Canadians to give back the native Indians (aka, First Nations) their land? They were much better off when you left them alone a few hundred years ago.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

ptoss1 said:


> So why are the Uyghurs angry?
> Do they really expect to get their own country?
> What?
> Don't they know what happened in Tibet?
> They're getting off much better than they were a few years ago.


Their country Is Turkey Maybe. They can go back there. Xinjiang was chinese since 3000 years ago. At thet Time, Uyghur are single cells in the lake



northeast said:


> Great Qing empire took so large land in the north and west.it's definitely the strongest empire in the whole Chinese story.



Great Qing is just Emperor Japan to China. They are all colonists. Great Qing is just a big hell for Han.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Great Qing is just Emperor Japan to China. They are all colonists. Great Qing is just a big hell for Han.



The Qing Dynasty is also part of China's history, it is just as Chinese as the Mughal Empire is Indian.

BTW, i now despise Huanghan deeply, since most of them are KMT suckers.

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## CheckMate

Death toll in Xinjiang violence rises to 35.
June 27, 2013, 10:28 p.m.

BEIJING - The death toll in Wednesdays clashes in the western Xinjiang region has risen from 27 to 35, and Chinas state-run media are now referring to the incident as a terrorist attack.

Initial reports by the official New China News Agency said knife-wielding rioters attacked a police station, a government building and a construction site.

It was the deadliest outbreak of violence in years in the region, where tension has simmered between Uighurs, a Muslim minority group, and ethnic Han Chinese.

The first reports on the violence said rioters killed 17 people and police shot 10 dead. But on Thursday, the news agency said rioters had slain 24 people, including two police officers, and police shot 11 to death. Another 21 people were injured, the agency said Thursday.

The fresh account also for the first time made mention of the ethnicities of those involved, with the news agency saying 16 of the dead were Uighurs. Exactly what prompted the attack remained unclear, however. Xinjiang next week will mark the four-year anniversary of ethnic clashes that killed nearly 200 people in 2009.

A report Friday in the Global Times, a newspaper closely affiliated with the Communist Party, said more than 10 suspects had been arrested, most of whom were aged 18 or 19.

The paper cited an unnamed Xinjiang official as saying that the attackers were mostly Uighurs and mainly targeted Uighur police officers. The Han victims were all migrant workers at a construction site in the town of Lukqun, the paper said.

The World Uyghur Congress, a Germany-based advocacy group, has expressed skepticism about the official accounts of the incident but said it had had difficulty reaching locals because communication links in the area had been shut down.

The Global Times said its reporter was unable to enter Lukqun because the city had been sealed off.

The official also told the paper that authorities believed the attackers had been planning to launch an assault at a commodity fair in the city of Kashi on Friday.

U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said Wednesday that the Obama administration was "closely following" reports of the Xinjiang violence and urged Chinese authorities to conduct a thorough, transparent investigation of this incident to provide those detained the due process protections to which they are entitled under China's constitution, laws and international human rights commitments."

He also said Washington remained "deeply concerned" by what he called "ongoing reports of discrimination and restrictions" against Chinese Uighurs and Muslims.

In a commentary Friday in the state-run China Daily, Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences researcher Shi Lan hit back at the U.S. criticism.

"Some of the Xinjiang terrorist groups get support from the West, which loves to call their usurpations acts of 'independence and religious freedom,'" she said. "Western powers still use double standards when it comes to terrorist attacks on China."

Source: Reuters,LA Times.

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## surya kiran

Crush the separatists with an iron hand. I wish we did the same.

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## Parul

Rest In Peace....

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## itaskol

and today rhey make another attack in hetian xingjiang. 
now it is time for china to delare war on terror.

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## DV RULES

itaskol said:


> and today rhey make another attack in hetian xingjiang.
> now it is time for china to delare war on terror.



dude, time to Declare war against USA, they have so many reasons to do so.


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## itaskol

DV RULES said:


> dude, time to Declare war against USA, they have so many reasons to do so.



declare war need hard evidence. till now there is no evidence that USA behind all these attack.

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## Dash

Kill them all!!!!....


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## Parul

itaskol said:


> and today rhey make another attack in hetian xingjiang.
> now * it is time for china to delare war on terror*.



It should. I hope China will not see Terrorist as some people see on PDF i.e. Good Terrorist and Bad Terrorist, as there can't be Good Terrorist. It should just WIPE of these SCUMS

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## SirHatesALot

RIP

Hope situation improves.


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## itaskol

and one thing I can never understand. most victims themselves are uyghuren themselves.
why they do that???

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## anyrandom

there is a particular religious ideology behind these attacks and you know it

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## muse

itaskol said:


> and one thing I can never understand. most victims themselves are uyghuren themselves.
> why they do that???



To make more anguish and terror - that's the plan, you have to make the people to a stage where they are angry and confused and at that stage you help focus their anger


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## Developereo

itaskol said:


> and one thing I can never understand. most victims themselves are uyghuren themselves.
> why they do that???



They are viewed as accomplices.

Malcolm X - The House Negro and the Field Negro


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## cnleio

itaskol said:


> and one thing I can never understand. most victims themselves are uyghuren themselves.
> why they do that???


Coz they help Heretics(like Hans).

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## cnleio

More Armed Police and Police unites from Eastern China to support XinJiang, from now on to August there'r Anti-Terrorist Time in Uighur region.* War in China ~!*


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## Cherokee

Parul said:


> It should. I hope China will not see Terrorist as some people see on PDF i.e. Good Terrorist and Bad Terrorist, as there can't be Good Terrorist. It should just WIPE of these SCUMS



Only Good Terrorist is Dead Terrorist .

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## RangerPK

Self Delete.


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## ephone

We do not need terrorists to be alive. just shot those bastards.

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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> *U TURKEY &#65281; Caught u ~! *
> China need to arm PKK and Armenia rebels, support Greece ,Iran and Syria.



Calm down, only Pan turkists/pan turanists like bozkurt are interested in exporting violence to other countries.


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## Wholegrain

grandmaster said:


> I think china government should establish a news agency that does the same jobs like this. that news agency will tell the world the bad things about india, the west and japan. or at least analyzing the plots of western in every international issues.



India flooded the Andaman islands with migrants from India and swamped the native negritos. Japan also flooded Hokkaido with Japanese migrants and did not even recognize the native Ainu as indigeneous until recently. 

India is doing virtually nothing to stop the negritos from going extinct. They even treated them like zoo animals and had "sexual relations" aka raped their women.

Jarawa's survival threatened by habitat loss, sexual exploitation | News | Human rights

'Human safari' fears as Andaman Islands road reopens - Telegraph

Human safaris may be banned, but still tourists flock to Andaman Islands | World news | The Observer

This news was all over the British media (the guardian and telegraph) but we didn't hear anything from the American media nor any condemnation of India from western governments.

The Andaman islands were never under the control of an Indian empire. The British took it over and passed it on to India.

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## cnleio

DV RULES said:


> dude, time to Declare war against USA, they have so many reasons to do so.



Does American believe the Islam &#65311; Do u think all Chinese foolish ?

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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> Does American believe the Islam &#65311; Do u think all Chinese foolish ?









The World Uyghur Congress receives its funding from America.

The Soviet Union supported Uyghur separatists for decades against China and backed the Uyghur Ehmetjan Qasim 
during the Ili Rebellion to set up the Soviet puppet state, Second East Turkestan Republic.

Why do you think a country' foreign policies have anything to do with religion?

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## mahabharath

Shielding brigade!!! always point in wrong direction to divert the attention from the Scums.

Kill all the terrorists. There shouldn't be any mercy.


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## cnleio

Wholegrain said:


> The World Uyghur Congress receives its funding from America.
> 
> The Soviet Union supported Uyghur separatists for decades against China and backed the Uyghur Ehmetjan Qasim
> during the Ili Rebellion to set up the Soviet puppet state, Second East Turkestan Republic.
> 
> Why do you think a country' foreign policies have anything to do with religion?



And don't forget the Religious Support from Saudi Arabia and Turkey, The World Uyghur Youth Union also has organizations in Turkey. 

Oneday China will make them pay back, im sure !


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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> And don't forget the Religious Support from Saudi Arabia and Turkey, The World Uyghur Youth Union also has organizations in Turkey. Oneday China will make them pay back, im sure !



Saudi Arabia does not supply funding or arms to any Uyghur separatist group.


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## cnleio

Wholegrain said:


> Saudi Arabia does not supply funding or arms to any Uyghur separatist group.


No,No ... my friend. Their Religiou Schools influenced local Uighur.

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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> No,No ... my friend. Their Religiou Schools influenced local Uighur.



There are religious schools with links to Saudi Araiba operating freely in Ningxia and other areas of China and there are no terrorist attacks.

Also see

Faith flourishes in an arid wasteland | South China Morning Post

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## Banglar Lathial

This is a major advantage for the USA.

It can always raise the temperature in a lot of regions inside China. 

Due to Chinese government's immature policy of not siding with Muslims, it would find little Muslim support on this issue, but many Muslims would be supported by USA openly, and secretly, to weaken China.

Again, this is a perfect case of Chinese government's immature diplomacy at play. 

If the Chinese government had backed Muslim governments through and through, there could be possibilities for controlling separatists anger and channelling the anger towards more fruitful ventures. 

This (diplomatic immaturity of Chinese government and foreign affairs board) will hamper its growth as a geopolitical power.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Very unfortunate, China is a great friend of many Muslim countries. Muslim minorities should respect the law and the Chinese gov should afford them protection and equality. A friend of China like the KSA or Turkey should pay a visit and defuse tensions between Muslims and Chinese in that area..


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## Maira La

Banglar Lathial said:


> This is a major advantage for the USA.
> 
> It can always raise the temperature in a lot of regions inside China.
> 
> Due to Chinese government's immature policy of not siding with Muslims, it would find little Muslim support on this issue, but many Muslims would be supported by USA openly, and secretly, to weaken China.
> 
> Again, this is a perfect case of Chinese government's immature diplomacy at play.
> 
> If the Chinese government had backed Muslim governments through and through, there could be possibilities for controlling separatists anger and channelling the anger towards more fruitful ventures.
> 
> This (*diplomatic immaturity of Chinese government and foreign affairs board*) will hamper its growth as a geopolitical power.



You're not quite making any sense here. This incident has nothing to do with diplomatic maturity. The riots are incited and carried out by Uighurs to terrorize and drive away the Han Chinese. Follow the news carefully and you'll notice it's not like the Indian riots where Hindus massacre innocent Muslims; it's the other way around in Xinjiang with Uighurs killing Hans as well as their own (police).

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## Banglar Lathial

apo_mEaTgRiNdEr said:


> You're not quite making any sense here. This incident has nothing to do with diplomatic maturity. The riots are incited and carried out by Uighurs to terrorize and drive away the Han Chinese. Follow the news carefully and you'll notice it's not like the Indian riots where Hindus massacre innocent Muslims; it's the other way around in Xinjiang with Uighurs killing Hans as well as their own (police).




Why do you think some random Uighurs in China, where they are a very tiny, powerless minority will take up arms and kill Han Chinese from time to time? 

Does it even make sense? 

This is the same excuse used by Hindutva radicals in Hindustan, where they claim that minority Muslims start riots for no apparent reason, and that all that Hindutva extremists do is in retaliation. This is a common political stunt used by all aggressors. "Oh, look we did not start it, that tiny powerless minority started a mindless clash, and we are merely resolving it (through violence)...". 


Rebiya Kadir lives in the West, and West=USA, for most political purposes. 

Whenever USA wants, they will 'raise the temperature', and China can do nothing, because it has no Muslim allies due to its own diplomatic immaturity.


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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Does American believe the Islam &#65311; Do u think all Chinese foolish ?



USA does not believe the Islam, but they believe the terrorism!

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## Wholegrain

apo_mEaTgRiNdEr said:


> You're not quite making any sense here. This incident has nothing to do with diplomatic maturity. The riots are incited and carried out by Uighurs to terrorize and drive away the Han Chinese. Follow the news carefully and you'll notice it's not like the Indian riots where Hindus massacre innocent Muslims; it's the other way around in Xinjiang with Uighurs killing Hans as well as their own (police).



Most Han do not live in Uyghurs lands. The majority of Han in Xinjiang live in Dzungharia, the former land of the Zunghar mongols.

Urumqi was a former Dzunghar city which was colonized by Han and Hui Muslims. Uyghur migrants from the Tarim basin came later. Thats why the city has a large han and hui population.

Most of the terrorist attacks take place in southern Xinjiang (tarim basin) include many Uyghur victims (since over 90% of the tarim is uyghur most of the police force is uyghur). The communist party officials in southern xinjiang are also uyghur.



Developereo said:


> They are viewed as accomplices.
> 
> Malcolm X - The House Negro and the Field Negro



Its impossible for Uyghur separatists NOT to kill other Uyghurs because the majority of police and communist party members in southern Xinjiang (Tarim Basin) are Uyghurs since the majority of the population there is Uyghur. Han immigration occurs mostly in Dzungharia where Uyghurs are also immigrants. The natives there are Zungars who are nearly gone.

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## cnleio

Wholegrain said:


> There are religious schools with links to Saudi Araiba operating freely in Ningxia and other areas of China and there are no terrorist attacks.


There's no terrorist attack, not means ppl were not brainwashed by religious extremism. 
30years ago China did business with some Arab countries to support Taliban against S.U, 20years ago did business with some Arab to support Iraq rebles against U.S, some years ago did business with some Arab to support Libya rebels, who bought type56,RQ5.56,QBU-10,QW-2,HJ-8,type107 for Arab rebles in Syriba ? Some Arab countries like Saudi Arabia,Qatar, United Arab bought weapons from the West, Russia and China, finally black weapons flow into these Arab rebles. 

The influence of religion powerful than weapons.

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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> There's no terrorist attack, not means ppl were not brainwashed by religious extremism.
> 30years ago China did business with some Arab countries to support Taliban against S.U, 20years ago did business with some Arab to support Iraq rebles against U.S, some years ago did business with some Arab to support Libya rebels, who bought type56,RQ5.56,QBU-10,QW-2,HJ-8,type107 for Arab rebles in Syriba ? Some Arab countries like Saudi Arabia,Qatar, United Arab bought weapons from the West, Russia and China, finally black weapons flow into these Arab rebles.
> 
> The influence of religion powerful than weapons.



China supported the Afghan mujahideen openly against the Soviet Union and even had its own training camps in Xinjiang. The Soviet Union supported Uyghur separatists.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> USA does not believe the Islam, but they believe the terrorism!


Who executed the terrorist attack in China? Who killed innocents in China ?
Find them out, kill bastard all.


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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> Who executed the terrorist attack in China? Who killed innocents in China ?



Who funds those terrorists?

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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> Who executed the terrorist attack in China? Who killed innocents in China ?
> Find them out, kill bastard all.



Tibetans believe in Buddhism and there were the riots in Lhasa.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Who funds those terrorists?


I don't know, u tell me. And u need to find out whether any Arab country fund Uygur riots in China?
Anyway i have share the pic in my former post.


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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> I don't know, u tell me. And u need to find out whether any Arab country fund Uygur riots in China?
> Anyway i have share the pic in my former post.



No Arab country funds "riots" in China.


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## ChineseTiger1986

cnleio said:


> I don't know, u tell me. And u need to find out whether any Arab country fund Uygur riots in China?
> Anyway i have share the pic in my former post.



There is no brainer. Who can mess with China except USA?

Who is creating the tension in both East China Sea and South China Sea?

Do you think Philippines alone has the gut to face China without the backup from USA?

BTW, the lip service from USA won't save idiots, pushing China into its infuriated mode is not a good idea.


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## cnleio

Some mod delet my pic, NICE WORK ~ ! But i just tell u, that pic is very popular in Chinese forum now. Just watch !


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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> Some mod delet my pic, NICE WORK ~ ! But i just tell u, that pic is very popular in Chinese forum now. Just watch !



It was most likely deleted because of the accompanying text, not the pictures. Turkish members have also been banned or their posts deleted for similar comments.


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## cnleio

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> There is no brainer. Who can mess with China except USA?
> 
> Who is creating the tension in both East China Sea and South China Sea?
> 
> Do you think Philippines alone has the gut to face China without the backup from USA?
> 
> BTW, the lip service from USA won't save idiots, pushing China into its infuriated mode is not a good idea.


Okay,Okay this's coz USA ... that's coz USA, is these Uigur terrists r American? Yes u can suspect the USA behind riots, but i just wanna kill all terrists ASAP no mercy in XinJiang, who killed innocents who must burn in the HELL !


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## cnleio

Wholegrain said:


> It was most likely deleted because of the accompanying text, not the pictures. Turkish members have also been banned or their posts deleted for similar comments.


U do never understand what my feelings now when i shaked by one pic showed 192 deadbody of Chinese innocents lying in the mortuary at last 2009.7.5 XinJiang riot. (I won't explain how i got the pic from inside Police System, Sorry i can't release it coz that pic so easy to provoke all Chinese angry & crazy)

Just one, a poor innocent woman in XinJiang riot:


I only one word: "*Find them out and kill them all, who support Uygur terrorist China fight war.*"


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## Wholegrain

cnleio said:


> U do never understand what my feelings now when i shaked by one pic showed 192 deadbody of Chinese innocents lying in the mortuary at last 2009.7.5 XinJiang riot. (I won't explain how i got the pic from inside Police System, Sorry i can't release it coz that pic so easy to provoke all Chinese angry & crazy)
> 
> Just one, a poor innocent woman in XinJiang riot:
> 
> 
> I only one word: "Find them out and kill them all, who support Uygur terrist we fight war."



Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books



> Foreign tourists in Urumchi today sometimes complain that the city is "too Chinese" in comparison with the Central Asian atmosphere of southern Xinjiang; many believe Urumchi's East Turkestani culture has been erased by Han immigration and architecture. *In fact, the Uyghur population and culture in the city today is a relatively recent feature, for Urumchi in its first decades in most respects resembled a north Chinese town, populated primarily by Tungans from Gansu and Shaanxi and Han from many Chinese provinces, in addition to the bannermen*.



Han people in northern Xinjiang (Dzungharia) AND Uyghurs are both immigrants. The land was originally Zunghar, and it includes Urumqi. So Uyghurs have no right to claim northern Xinjiang as their homeland or say other people can't move there. The Uyghurs came from southern Xinjiang in the Tarim Basin where they are the majority.

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## Bobby

itaskol said:


> declare war need hard evidence. till now there is no evidence that USA behind all these attack.



just blame it on the rain


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## Developereo

Wholegrain said:


> Its impossible for Uyghur separatists NOT to kill other Uyghurs because the majority of police and communist party members in southern Xinjiang (Tarim Basin) are Uyghurs since the majority of the population there is Uyghur. Han immigration occurs mostly in Dzungharia where Uyghurs are also immigrants. The natives there are Zungars who are nearly gone.



Nobody has ever claimed that terrorists use logic or common sense.

Terrorism is an act of desperation; a last-ditch effort by people who feel they have nothing else left to lose.

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## --,-'{@

Developereo said:


> Nobody has ever claimed that terrorists use logic or common sense.
> 
> Terrorism is an act of desperation; a last-ditch effort by people who feel they have nothing else left to lose.



in Quran its mentioned abt the martyrdome in the name of Allah, this is the mis-interepretation of these same brainwashed lunatics. This is how terrorism gets its share of idiots to do its job. for them thats the logic as its the word of God.

am i incorrect ?


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## Developereo

-- said:


> in Quran its mentioned abt the martyrdome in the name of Allah, this is the mis-interepretation of these same brainwashed lunatics. This is how terrorism gets its share of idiots to do its job. for them thats the logic as its the word of God.
> 
> am i incorrect ?



Quran only says that resisting oppression is justified; it does not condone terrorism or murdering innocents.

The situation here is that the terrorists portray themselves as fighting oppression of Uighur people by Han/Chinese authorities. The only way China can solve this problem is by making sure the wider Uighur population views the terrorists as criminals and the Han/Chinese as their friends. China is an up-and-coming power, with an enormous economy and huge potential for upward mobility for Chinese citizens. The Uighurs need to be convinced that their best interests lie within the Chinese state, and that they can get a fair shake in society.

I know the Chinese government has tried to help the Uighurs, but it's not about what the government does, but how ordinary people interact. It seems that there is a lot of stigma attached towards Uighurs, and they are viewed as the 'untouchables' of society. Every society has this kind of problem where some group is at the social bottom.

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## --,-'{@

Developereo said:


> Quran only says that resisting oppression is justified; it does not condone terrorism or murdering innocents.
> 
> The situation here is that the terrorists portray themselves as fighting oppression of Uighur people by Han/Chinese authorities. The only way China can solve this problem is by making sure the wider Uighur population views the terrorists as criminals and the Han/Chinese as their friends. China is an up-and-coming power, with an enormous economy and huge potential for upward mobility for Chinese citizens. The Uighurs need to be convinced that their best interests lie within the Chinese state, and that they can get a fair shake in society.
> 
> I know the Chinese government has tried to help the Uighurs, but it's not about what the government does, but how ordinary people interact. * It seems that there is a lot of stigma attached towards Uighurs, and they are viewed as the 'untouchables' of society.* Every society has this kind of problem where some group is at the social bottom.



thanks for the reply Sir. cud u plz elaborate on the bold part ? why is it so ? tht too from atheist Chinese, if it were a Christian o Hindu country i cud have understood.


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## Developereo

-- said:


> thanks for the reply Sir. cud u plz elaborate on the bold part ? why is it so ? tht too from atheist Chinese, if it were a Christian o Hindu country i cud have understood.



Nothing to do with religion; it's purely an issue of ethnicity.

It's just the comments I have seen from many (Han) Chinese who view the Uighurs as being intrinsically lazy, deceitful, uneducated, etc, etc, etc. The usual stereotypes that apply to any marginalized minority in any society.

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## q12093487q

Guys&#65292;all terrorists were wearing turkish flag T-shirts.

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## --,-'{@

what do turkish members on the forum have to say abt this ? plz contribute, wud like to know from both parties.


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## iranigirl2

Erdogan's policies are very extreme, he is also supporting Terrorists in Syria and you bet he is also supporting the terrorists in China.



cnleio said:


> Does American believe the Islam &#65311; Do u think all Chinese foolish ?



No they don't believe in Islam, but they support extremists Islamic terrorists all over the world. They even support them in Iran, look up Judunllah.

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## xuxu1457

No any matter with Turkey or other countries, terrorists of China only have 1 time to jump up, once they jump up they will die or be arrested, no other way to go; I don't know what they are thinking about, they attack Uighur themselves, most local policeman, passers, officers are all Uighur; they should attack Armed Police Force or PLA if they really brave, attacking civilian is so urgly

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## JSCh

These are just canon fodder. Their minder know full well that their political ambition has not a slightest chance of succeeding. Used for some petty political leverage. How stupid and what a waste!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Now the armed police has stared the clean-up, fck those terrorists.

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## Audio

> (Reuters) - More than a hundred people, riding motorbikes and wielding knifes, attacked a police station in China's ethnically divided western region of Xinjiang, state media said on Saturday, in the latest unrest to hit the region in the past week. The attack in the remote desert city of Hotan, a heavily ethnic Uighur area, comes two days after the region's deadliest unrest in four years that resulted in the deaths of 35 people. China called the incident a "terrorist attack".
> 
> In the latest incident, the Global Times - owned by Chinese Communist Party mouthpiece, the People's Daily - said "troublemakers" gathered at religious venues before riding on motorcycles to attack a police station in the city's Moyu county.
> 
> Authorities are counting the number of casualties and searching for suspects, the Global Times said.
> 
> In a separate incident, some 200 people attempted to "incite trouble" at a major shopping area in Hotan, the newspaper said. It said police defused the situation.
> Chinese authorities have increased security in Urumqi, the Global Times said.
> 
> Photographs on Chinese microblogs showed dozens of military trucks with riot police patrolling the streets.



More at China's troubled Xinjiang hit by more violence: state media | Reuters


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## t_for_talli

Wholegrain said:


> Saudi Arabia does not supply funding or arms to any Uyghur separatist group.



USA provides funding and KSA provides guidelines to use those funds


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## Wholegrain

t_for_talli said:


> USA provides funding and KSA provides guidelines to use those funds



KSA does not provide anything to them. Did you read the article Audio just provided? These people were wielding knives. In Delhi and Mumbai the people who carried out attacks had guns. Nobody will provide knives to a bunch of people and tell them to carry out raids on another country. They are asking them to fail.


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## t_for_talli

Wholegrain said:


> KSA does not provide anything to them. Did you read the article Audio just provided? These people were wielding knives. In Delhi and Mumbai the people who carried out attacks had guns. Nobody will provide knives to a bunch of people and tell them to carry out raids on another country. They are asking them to fail.



Ok got it.....no monetary funding.....but some school of thoughts are brainwashing them

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## iranigirl2

KSA provides the ideology. Which is worse than any weapons.

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## Genesis

Developereo said:


> Quran only says that resisting oppression is justified; it does not condone terrorism or murdering innocents.
> 
> The situation here is that the terrorists portray themselves as fighting oppression of Uighur people by Han/Chinese authorities. The only way China can solve this problem is by making sure the wider Uighur population views the terrorists as criminals and the Han/Chinese as their friends. China is an up-and-coming power, with an enormous economy and huge potential for upward mobility for Chinese citizens. The Uighurs need to be convinced that their best interests lie within the Chinese state, and that they can get a fair shake in society.
> 
> I know the Chinese government has tried to help the Uighurs, but it's not about what the government does, but how ordinary people interact. It seems that there is a lot of stigma attached towards Uighurs, and they are viewed as the 'untouchables' of society. Every society has this kind of problem where some group is at the social bottom.



I'm ready to admit that there are racism in China towards them, but here's a fact. 

Chinese is more or less prejudice towards the poor and not specifically other ethnicity. 

Uyghurs are in fact poor, partly due to their location, and partly due to their traditions. 

There are Uyghur actress, and actors, politicians even in the central government. There are Uyghur pretty much in ever sector. 

It's different than say in a place where you couldn't become rich or successful due to birth. It's more of the fact that they haven't become successful that is really holding them back, if you can call it that.

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## xuxu1457

24 civilian died under attack, in which 16 of them are Uyghur Chinese, no matter how many war we win outside, if we can't protect civilian in our own country, it's a failure. Never too much to invest on domestic security

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## ChineseTiger1986

Genesis said:


> I'm ready to admit that there are racism in China towards them, but here's a fact.
> 
> Chinese is more or less prejudice towards the poor and not specifically other ethnicity.
> 
> Uyghurs are in fact poor, partly due to their location, and partly due to their traditions.
> 
> There are Uyghur actress, and actors, politicians even in the central government. There are Uyghur pretty much in ever sector.
> 
> It's different than say in a place where you couldn't become rich or successful due to birth. It's more of the fact that they haven't become successful that is really holding them back, if you can call it that.



Who is no brainer to blame Uighurs for this?

Now most of the victims are Uighurs, most of Hans blame the terrorists, not our Uighur brothers and sisters.

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## doremon

CheckMate said:


> Death toll in Xinjiang violence rises to 35.
> June 27, 2013, 10:28 p.m.
> 
> BEIJING - The death toll in Wednesdays clashes in the western Xinjiang region has risen from 27 to 35, and Chinas state-run media are now referring to the incident as a terrorist attack.
> 
> Initial reports by the official New China News Agency said knife-wielding rioters attacked a police station, a government building and a construction site.
> 
> It was the deadliest outbreak of violence in years in the region, where tension has simmered between Uighurs, a Muslim minority group, and ethnic Han Chinese.
> 
> The first reports on the violence said rioters killed 17 people and police shot 10 dead. But on Thursday, the news agency said rioters had slain 24 people, including two police officers, and police shot 11 to death. Another 21 people were injured, the agency said Thursday.
> 
> The fresh account also for the first time made mention of the ethnicities of those involved, with the news agency saying 16 of the dead were Uighurs. Exactly what prompted the attack remained unclear, however. Xinjiang next week will mark the four-year anniversary of ethnic clashes that killed nearly 200 people in 2009.
> 
> A report Friday in the Global Times, a newspaper closely affiliated with the Communist Party, said more than 10 suspects had been arrested, most of whom were aged 18 or 19.
> 
> The paper cited an unnamed Xinjiang official as saying that the attackers were mostly Uighurs and mainly targeted Uighur police officers. The Han victims were all migrant workers at a construction site in the town of Lukqun, the paper said.
> 
> The World Uyghur Congress, a Germany-based advocacy group, has expressed skepticism about the official accounts of the incident but said it had had difficulty reaching locals because communication links in the area had been shut down.
> 
> The Global Times said its reporter was unable to enter Lukqun because the city had been sealed off.
> 
> The official also told the paper that authorities believed the attackers had been planning to launch an assault at a commodity fair in the city of Kashi on Friday.
> 
> U.S. State Department spokesman Patrick Ventrell said Wednesday that the Obama administration was "closely following" reports of the Xinjiang violence and urged Chinese authorities to conduct a thorough, transparent investigation of this incident to provide those detained the due process protections to which they are entitled under China's constitution, laws and international human rights commitments."
> 
> He also said Washington remained "deeply concerned" by what he called "ongoing reports of discrimination and restrictions" against Chinese Uighurs and Muslims.
> 
> In a commentary Friday in the state-run China Daily, Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences researcher Shi Lan hit back at the U.S. criticism.
> 
> "Some of the Xinjiang terrorist groups get support from the West, which loves to call their usurpations acts of 'independence and religious freedom,'" she said. "Western powers still use double standards when it comes to terrorist attacks on China."
> 
> Source: Reuters,LA Times.


 if only our politicans had the guts and spine of chinese our beautifull kashmir wouldnot have become a safe heaven for terrorist


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## Shardul.....the lion

Rest in peace to dead................


China must wipe out these terrorists from Xinjiang............Only good terrorist is dead terrorist

India must learn from China how terrorism is controlled..............

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## Genesis

Shardul.....the lion said:


> Rest in peace to dead................
> 
> 
> China must wipe out these terrorists from Xinjiang............Only good terrorist is dead terrorist
> 
> India must learn from China how terrorism is controlled..............



Why are India not using troops to target these maoists. I seen the troops sent, they are worse than police. They are badly equipped, if equipped, and certainly badly commanded. The commander they showed looked stupid and fat. Also can't make sense to save his life.


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## Shardul.....the lion

Genesis said:


> Why are India not using troops to target these maoists. I seen the troops sent, they are worse than police. They are badly equipped, if equipped, and certainly badly commanded. The commander they showed looked stupid and fat. Also can't make sense to save his life.




NO, army is not used. Only paramilitary forces are used against maoists......

Nowadays they are fully equipped...

And they are not FAT. You might have confused with police, who are definitely fat and corrupt to some extent.


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## Developereo

Genesis said:


> I'm ready to admit that there are racism in China towards them, but here's a fact.
> 
> Chinese is more or less prejudice towards the poor and not specifically other ethnicity.



I wasn't trying to single out China.

As I indicated, this problem exists in every society. It's just that, in the Uighur case, there are opportunists (foreign and domestic) who are exploiting these people's frustrations for their own purposes. The irony is that, in a few decades, as the Chinese economy continues to climb, Chinese citizenship will become as coveted as American or European citizenship, and people will be trying to get into China. The Uighurs already have that opportunity but some have lost faith that they can achieve their dream within China.



Genesis said:


> Uyghurs are in fact poor, partly due to their location, and partly due to their traditions.
> 
> There are Uyghur actress, and actors, politicians even in the central government. There are Uyghur pretty much in ever sector.
> 
> It's different than say in a place where you couldn't become rich or successful due to birth. It's more of the fact that they haven't become successful that is really holding them back, if you can call it that.



Again, it's the same situation the world over: gypsies in Europe, blacks in America, etc.

Marginalized groups often get trapped in a cycle of poverty where they face discrimination because of stereotypes and, in turn, perpetuate those stereotypes by self-defeating patterns of behavior.

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## beijingwalker

there's a lot of first hand witness accounts of the event from Han Chinese on Weibo saying that the tragedy was caused by forced eviction of the local residents,some ethnic Han Chinese also involved in the attack,the brawl first broke out in a construction site where construction workers were working on that project.


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## Genesis

Developereo said:


> I wasn't trying to single out China.
> 
> As I indicated, this problem exists in every society. It's just that, in the Uighur case, there are opportunists (foreign and domestic) who are exploiting these people's frustrations for their own purposes. The irony is that, in a few decades, as the Chinese economy continues to climb, Chinese citizenship will become as coveted as American or European citizenship, and people will be trying to get into China. The Uighurs already have that opportunity but some have lost faith that they can achieve their dream within China.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, it's the same situation the world over: gypsies in Europe, blacks in America, etc.
> 
> Marginalized groups often get trapped in a cycle of poverty where they face discrimination because of stereotypes and, in turn, perpetuate those stereotypes by self-defeating patterns of behavior.



what you say is true, but unlike some, the African Americans were brought in as slaves, Jews had hitler, gypsies are still discriminated against. 

You will never hear someone say the Uyugars are inferior or something. We will judge them more on their success than anything else. For example a successful jewish man are still sometimes refered to in a negative way because he is jewish, but a successful Ugyar won't hear something of a similar nature. 

BTW, yea China will be really popular in a few decade, when our work force switches to high end, and very depleted due to population aging. 

Work will be easy to come by and with our per capita rising at this rate, we will be semi developed by then and thus be very desirable. So yea, the Ugars would be foolish to independence now when they be through the bad times like cultural revolution and the periods before and immediately after.


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## beijingwalker

That's not totally true,we have to admit that Uyghurs are being marginalized both in Xinjiang and other parts of China,it's very difficult for them to find jobs cause most of them could not speak proper Chinese and their cultural and dietary uniqueness can become pain in the neck to employers

the segregation and discrimination is not imposed by the government,it's spontaneous and just naturally happened,but they are surely there and no one can deny it.

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## MeshFree

Developereo said:


> Nobody has ever claimed that terrorists use logic or common sense.
> 
> Terrorism is an act of desperation; a last-ditch effort by people who feel they have nothing else left to lose.



There are so many people who feel they have nothing to lose in the world, but could you find so many terrorist in Africa, Southeast Asia? Not all the people have nothing to lose is extremist.
lo


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## Enemy

The terrorist attacks by the Uyghurs have nothing to do either with religion or economic condition. Those who think Uyghurs are killing Hans just because of the lack of religious freedom or economic opportunities are ignorant of human nature. 

The Uyghur terror attacks are in fact racially oriented. Ignoring it may make one politically correct but will not address the issue properly. As long as Uyghurs are there in China, such attacks will continue even if all the Uyghurs become super rich or own lavish Mosques for each family. As long as there are racial differences, there will be bloody conflicts. Different Y Chromosomes can't get along together, they fight each other, and this is the basic reaction every Y Chromosome exhibits. 

Those who think once Uyghurs become economically sound, they will reject terrorism are living in fools' paradise. Economically sound Uyghurs will have more power, more options and they will finance big scale sabotage missions. 

And how stupid the Chinese are as they are sending uniformed armed police as if their presence will avert terrorism! Will any Uyghur terrorist try to attack a target when they can easily see and identify security? China instead should send thousands of secret service agents in civilians uniforms and make ups with licence to execute any suspect. Thus you pacify the situation first, then use money to create factions among Uyghurs so that they engage each other, find excuses to punish them and absorb them completely. 

Don't romanticize. Many people have already lost their lives. Finish the job.

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## beijingwalker

it's not the poverty itself drives people going nuts,it's the huge gap bw the rich and poor.when China was dirty poor China was very stable,but why it isn't now...you have those corrupt officials throwing away millions on women and luxury items everyday and you have millions scrape the bottom the barrel supporting their families.we've got many random attack across China now,not only in Xinjiang.

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## Navigator

I wish good luck to the Chinese police and armed police in the fight against this scum. We in Russia for many years struggling with terrorists in the Caucasus, and we know, that they should ruthlessly be eliminated, it's the only guarantee of peace and order in the region.

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## itaskol

&#26032;&#30086;&#37167;&#21892;&#26292;&#21147;&#24656;&#24598;&#26696;&#26368;&#21518;1&#21517;&#36867;&#29359;&#24402;&#26696;

update.
this terror group has total 17 people. most of them killed
the last one has been arrested today.

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## Developereo

MeshFree said:


> There are so many people who feel they have nothing to lose in the world, but could you find so many terrorist in Africa, Southeast Asia? Not all the people have nothing to lose is extremist.
> lo



Not only does it happen in Africa and Southeast Asia, it happens in the richest countries: the London riots, the LA Watts riots, gang culture, etc.

People who feel that they have been cheated by the system are more susceptible to exploitation by extremists and to break the law. Of course, a lot of common criminals also hide behind this excuse, so it is not a simple matter.

None of this is meant to excuse the behavior of terrorists and criminals, but to understanding the underlying motivations.

Criminology and sociology are complex subjects.

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## Navigator

PAP in Urumqi


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## Snomannen

sayina2012 said:


> "ChineseTiger1986 " is not chinese(he is manchu).
> 
> Chinese majority think qing is not china,
> 
> Qing is Colonists + Aggressor + Parasites,
> 
> They come from Siberia, invaded Northeast China.
> 
> They massacred Chinese people, destruction of Chinese culture, the eradication of Chinese dress, betray Chinese territory,They exploit Chinese people, tampering Chinese history books, insults Chinese leader Sun Yat-sen, abusive Chinese hero Yue Fei.Colluded with the Japanese carved Chinese.



Another brainwashed Huanghan. You people are the reason why I see no hope in the future of China.
Please, instead of reading &#19977;&#28961;&#32178;&#25991;, read some BOOKs.

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## sayina2012

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Their country Is Turkey Maybe. They can go back there. Xinjiang was chinese since 3000 years ago. At thet Time, Uyghur are single cells in the lake
> 
> 
> 
> Great Qing is just Emperor Japan to China. They are all colonists. Great Qing is just a big hell for Han.




manchu &#12289;japan &#12289;Mongolian &#12289;Huns is the enemy of the Chinese people.

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## Snomannen

sayina2012 said:


> manchu &#12289;japan &#12289;Mongolian &#12289;Huns is the enemy of the Chinese people.



YOU are the enemy of Chinese people.

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## Chinese-Dragon

sayina2012 said:


> Furthermore,Please use your own Ethnic name, do not pretend to hAN Chinese people.



I think every Chinese member here is Han, including KirovAirship. Only Hu Songshan is from a minority ethnicity (Hui).



sayina2012 said:


> &#39537;&#38500;&#38801;&#34383;,&#24674;&#22797;&#20013;&#21326;!&#22797;&#20852;&#27721;&#26381;,&#39537;&#36880;&#26071;&#34957;!



Hanfu looks way better than Qipao, I'll agree on that one.



KirovAirship said:


> Another brainwashed Huanghan. You people are the reason why I see no hope in the future of China.
> Please, instead of reading &#19977;&#28961;&#32178;&#25991;, read some BOOKs.



Excessive. China has a bright future, a very bright future, I strongly believe this.

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## northeast

god damn &#40644;&#27721;&#65292;I really don't like them&#65292;always bitching about how manchus treat han badly hundreds of years ago like a weak bullied girl.it's just pathetic.

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## Snomannen

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I think every Chinese member here is Han, including KirovAirship. Only Hu Songshan is from a minority ethnicity (Hui).
> 
> 
> 
> Hanfu looks way better than Qipao, I'll agree on that one.
> 
> 
> 
> Excessive. China has a bright future, a very bright future, I strongly believe this.



Not with these &#30343;&#36557; for sure.



northeast said:


> god damn &#40644;&#27721;&#65292;I really don't like them&#65292;always bitching about how manchus treat han badly hundreds of years ago like a weak bullied girl.it's just pathetic.



In fact the &#36655;&#20314;&#23416; in Qing Dynasty has even repaired and found back lots of ancient Chinese knowledge that was lost in the ancient.

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## skyisthelimit

how does China mainland govt intend to tackle this migration problem and the recent uyghar riots? I would also like to know the opinion based on chinese newspapers and their investigations on how the uyghars terrorists are supported and by whom? We all need to know who is trying to needle the people.


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## beijingwalker

sayina2012 said:


> manchu &#12289;japan &#12289;Mongolian &#12289;Huns is the enemy of the Chinese people.



You are the enemy of the Chinese people,but fortunately people like you bunch account for only a tiny tiny tiny...percentage in China.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

sayina2012 said:


> Northeast ancient Chinese territory.
> manchu is Colonists.
> 
> &#25196;&#24030;&#21313;&#26085;&#12289;&#21059;&#21457;&#26131;&#26381;,&#25991;&#23383;&#29425;&#12289;&#39532;&#20851;&#26465;&#32422;&#12289;&#21335;&#20140;&#26465;&#32422;&#12289;&#36763;&#19985;&#26465;&#32422;&#12289;&#28385;&#27954;&#22269;&#12289;&#24029;&#23707;&#33459;&#23376;&#12289;&#23425;&#19982;&#21451;&#37030;,&#19981;&#19982;&#23478;&#22900;,&#37327;&#20013;&#21326;&#20043;&#29289;&#21147;,&#32467;&#21451;&#37030;&#20043;&#27426;&#24515;,&#37117;&#26159;&#19977;&#28961;&#32178;&#25991;?
> 
> &#35201;&#35828;&#21453;&#21326;,&#20320;&#20204;&#28385;&#36951;&#20063;&#27809;&#37027;&#20010;&#32966;,&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#30340;&#26538;&#26438;&#23376;&#21487;&#19981;&#26159;&#21507;&#32032;&#30340;&#12290;
> 
> &#20013;&#22269;&#35201;&#22797;&#20852;&#65292;&#23601;&#24517;&#39035;&#22797;&#20852;&#27721;&#26381;&#27721;&#25991;&#21270;&#65292;&#25226;&#20320;&#20204;&#36825;&#20123;&#40522;&#24034;&#40480;&#21344;&#30340;&#26071;&#34957;&#12289;&#39532;&#35074;&#12289;&#36779;&#23376;&#25103;&#32479;&#32479;&#39537;&#36880;&#12290;



Are you serious? Manchurians are our brothers and Sisters now, there is no need to dig the pass...if you want to really define who's real han, why not start with &#31206;&#28781;&#20845;&#22269;...history is full of hatred.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Those KMT losers are masked themselves under the name of "&#30343;&#27721;" to create the tension between the different ethnic groups of China, so no Chinese patriot would fall into their trap.

The ROC is 100 times worse than the Qing Dynasty.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Qing Dynasty was just as brutal as any other Chinese feudalistic regimes in the past, all of them were bad.

But we can't reject our history, the past dynasties such as Qin/Han/Tang/Song/Ming were the backbone of our culture, while the Yuan/Qing Dynasties were the backbone of our modern map, both have a role in China's history.

I used to embrace the Huanghan ideology 7 years ago, but then i found them absurd, obviously most of them have an agenda against CPC.

Heck, i don't wanna insult Dr.Sun, but Chairman Mao is 100 times better than him (a mere ideologist) as a leader.

Even Dr.Sun didn't officially deny the Manchus as part of China, yet those KMT huanghan trolls have the gut to cross the line.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I hate that nowaday, there is still people think of &#21453;&#28165;&#22797;&#26126;

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## ChineseTiger1986

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I hate that nowaday, there is still people think of &#21453;&#28165;&#22797;&#26126;



Those people are in fact thinking about &#21453;&#25915;&#22823;&#38470; &#19977;&#27665;&#20027;&#20041;&#19968;&#32479;&#20013;&#22269;, anti-Manchu is just an excuse.

Those far right KMT supporters will cause big troule, no wonder they will all get banished by CPC.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Those people are in fact thinking about &#21453;&#25915;&#22823;&#38470; &#19977;&#27665;&#20027;&#20041;&#19968;&#32479;&#20013;&#22269;, anti-Manchu is just an excuse.
> 
> Those far right KMT supporters will cause big troule, no wonder they will all get banished by CPC.



I don't know why they still dream of this. 

It is ridiculous, there is no chance in the universe that they can take over the mainland.

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## Lux de Veritas

The Qing dynasty are the best dynasty in China. Name me one bad emperor in Qing dynasty? All Qing dynasty emperors good, even Pu Yi is not a bad emperor. And besides, Qing dynasty has given China 3 times the land area compared to Ming dynasty. Because of Qing dynasty, China have the large area of land today, even after losing a lot of land to Russia and India, China still have enough land to become a super power. Emperor Kang Xi is the best emperor in entire history of China.

If Ming dynasty reign during the opium war, China could be conquered entirely.







*Territory of Ming*






*Territory of Qing*

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## KRAIT

@Chinese Dragon What's the situation there ? I read about this in the newspaper. 

P.S. Long time, no see.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I don't know why they still dream of this.



I've known those folks for long time, their usual tactic is to compare CPC with Qing Dynasty; how Qing is non-Han foreign invaders, then how the Marxism is also non-Chinese foreign ideology, thus it should be expelled just like Qing.

Most of them are also very fond of Christianity, yet they still have the nerve to criticize how non-Chinese the Marxism is, what a shameless group of people.

According to their logic, the ROC is 100% orthodox Chinese regime, but many KMT leaders followed the Christianity is not a problem at all.

They even try to convince people how the Ming Dynasty was advanced because of the Christianity.

So this is the so-called Huanghan nationalists? They are the biggest history tampering scumbags of all time.

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## Chinese-Dragon

KRAIT said:


> @Chinese Dragon What's the situation there ? I read about this in the newspaper.
> 
> P.S. Long time, no see.



Situation there is not the best, unfortunately. 

I'm kind of disappointed that we weren't able to stop the incident before it happened, considering the massive budget and resources being used there.


----------



## KRAIT

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Situation there is not the best, unfortunately.
> I'm kind of disappointed that we weren't able to stop the incident before it happened, considering the massive budget and resources being used there.


Hope your govt. uses the Iron Fist policy and up root the problem as soon as possible. That region of yours can get unstable if US starts focusing on it too much...not that it isn't doing it.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Lux de Veritas said:


> The Qing dynasty are the best dynasty in China. Name me one bad emperor in Qing dynasty? All Qing dynasty emperors good, even Pu Yi is not a bad emperor. And besides, Qing dynasty has given China 3 times the land area compared to Ming dynasty. Because of Qing dynasty, China have the large area of land today, even after losing a lot of land to Russia and India, China still have enough land to become a super power. Emperor Kang Xi is the best emperor in entire history of China.
> 
> If Ming dynasty reign during the opium war, China could be conquered entirely.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Territory of Ming*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Territory of Qing*



I am not commenting on the Emperors, which i believe is feudalism.

But Qing has contributed the map to China most, i agree 100%, and PRC is the true successor of China's history after Qing, while ROC was so incompetent and would most likely lose everything to our enemies if they were not retreating to Taiwan.

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## Snomannen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I am not commenting on the Emperors, which i believe is feudalism.
> 
> But Qing has contributed the map to China most, i agree 100%, and PRC is the true successor of China's history after Qing, while ROC was so incompetent and would most likely lose everything to our enemies if they were not retreating to Taiwan.



The Ming Dynasty was like a pity balloon, it has been losing its territory inherited from Yuan since it was established. The first Emperor of Ming even sold out those land belongs to Manchurian ancestors to Korean. Yet Qing Dynasty has been expanding its territory since the day it was established. Even in the end of the Dynasty, Qing still has the bigger land than Ming in its best period. 
Qing Dynasty had all the Mongolian obey its authority, completely defeated Junggar the most dangerous enemy in the West and took over Taiwan, yet Ming's poor Emperor was even captured by those Mongolian. 
Even in Qing Dynasty they can build their own weapons by its heavy industry, yet the ROC can't even make themselves a bullet.

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## rcrmj

just had a talk with one of my best friends from Xingjiang, those Hans Chinese are furious, the local government had sent out thousands of &#27494;&#35686; (armed police) to make sure no ethnic killings will happen like the one few years ago```either Uyghur killing Hans or Hans beating Uyghurs```

he said the biggest problem for these kind of situation is that the unfair government policy towards the local Hans, Uyghur got spoiled, and the Gv failed to integrate them into modern China society

for examples, the government letting Uyghur to have their own schools, forbid their women to marry any non Uyghurs and forbid to change their religion....etc

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## ChineseTiger1986

Now i have completely ditched the racial superiority ideology created by Huanghan, the so-called Han supremacy will cause China to split apart.

&#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063; are good people who are very disciplined and hardworking when under a good system and leadership. We can create a lot of miracle if we firmly unite together, and this honor belongs to everyone of us.

The so-called 'superior' Hans under the bad leadership such as KMT, 200 million of our people got starved to death from the 1912-1945 period, yet another 30 million got slaughtered by the Japanese invaders.

See, there is no so-called superior Hans, only Chinese patriots united together with 56 different ethnic groups and build up a prosperous China for our future generation.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> The Ming Dynasty was like a pity balloon, it has been losing its territory inherited from Yuan since it was established. The first Emperor of Ming even sold out those land belongs to Manchurian ancestors to Korean. Yet Qing Dynasty has been expanding its territory since the day it was established. Even in the end of the Dynasty, Qing still has the bigger land than Ming in its best period.
> Qing Dynasty had all the Mongolian obey its authority, completely defeated Junggar the most dangerous enemy in the West and took over Taiwan, yet Ming's poor Emperor was even captured by those Mongolian.
> Even in Qing Dynasty they can build their own weapons by its heavy industry, yet the ROC can't even make themselves a bullet.



The best Ming Emperor is Zhu Di, he had the vision to expand the Ming territory, too bad his son and his officials were all shortsighted, since they believed that expanding the territory and influence is a waste of money.

Ming during the era of Zhu Di was approximately the size of the modern PRC, but shortly after his death, the Ming has lost its territory rapidly due the incompetent behavior of his son and his officials.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Now i have completely ditched the racial superiority ideology created by Huanghan, the so-called Han supremacy will cause China to split apart.
> 
> &#20013;&#21326;&#27665;&#26063; are good people who are very disciplined and hardworking when under a good system and leadership. We can create a lot of miracle if we firmly unite together, and this honors belong to everyone of us.
> 
> So so-called 'superior' Hans under the bad leadership such as KMT, 200 million of our people got starved to death from the 1912-1945 period, yet another 30 million got slaughtered by the Japanese invaders.
> 
> See, there is no so-called superior Hans, only Chinese patriots united together with 56 different ethnic groups and build up a prosperous China for our future generation.



I agree. 

China is united by our shared "civilization", not by any one single ethnicity or race.

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## Wholegrain

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> I've known those folks for long time, their usual tactic is to compare CPC with Qing Dynasty; how Qing is non-Han foreign invaders, then how the Marxism is also non-Chinese foreign ideology, thus it should be expelled just like Qing.
> 
> Most of them are also very fond of Christianity, yet they still have the nerve to criticize how non-Chinese the Marxism is, what a shameless group of people.
> 
> According to their logic, the ROC is 100% orthodox Chinese regime, but many KMT leaders followed the Christianity is not a problem at all.
> 
> They even try to convince people how the Ming Dynasty was advanced because of the Christianity.
> 
> So this is the so-called Huanghan nationalists? They are the biggest history tampering scumbags of all time.



Unless you've been to Taiwan you have no idea wtf your talking about. Most of those dumb internet warrior huanghan are kids and teenagers sitting at their computers whining on online forums from mainland and they don't follow any political party. KMT does not preach that **** at all. Stop trying to look for a scapegoat. The KMT says the same thing as CPC about ethnic minorities.



KirovAirship said:


> The Ming Dynasty was like a pity balloon, it has been losing its territory inherited from Yuan since it was established. The first Emperor of Ming even sold out those land belongs to Manchurian ancestors to Korean. Yet Qing Dynasty has been expanding its territory since the day it was established. Even in the end of the Dynasty, Qing still has the bigger land than Ming in its best period.
> Qing Dynasty had all the Mongolian obey its authority, completely defeated Junggar the most dangerous enemy in the West and took over Taiwan, yet Ming's poor Emperor was even captured by those Mongolian.
> Even in Qing Dynasty they can build their own weapons by its heavy industry, yet the ROC can't even make themselves a bullet.



The Ming dynasty did not inherit those from the Yuan, it defeated the Yuan and conquered all of China proper, Manchuria and modern day Primosky Krai by force. Yunnan was conquered by force. The Ming did not sell out any of northeast China to Koreans. The land on the northeast korean peninsula was controlled by Jurchen tribes and Koreans fonquered it from the Jurchen. The Ming then conquered Manchuria and sent Yishiha to erect the Yongning Temple Stele.

The Ming defeated the Portuguese at Tunmen and the Dutch at Penghu. Taiwan was also conquered from the Dutch by Ming loyalists.



KirovAirship said:


> *yet the ROC can't even make themselves a bullet*.



This is so blatantly false I don't need to refute this.

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## Snomannen

Wholegrain said:


> The Ming dynasty did not inherit those from the Yuan, it defeated the Yuan and conquered all of China proper, Manchuria and modern day Primosky Krai by force. Yunnan was conquered by force. The Ming did not sell out any of northeast China to Koreans. The land on the northeast korean peninsula was controlled by Jurchen tribes and Koreans fonquered it from the Jurchen. The Ming then conquered Manchuria and sent Yishiha to erect the Yongning Temple Stele.
> 
> The Ming defeated the Portuguese at Tunmen and the Dutch at Penghu. Taiwan was also conquered from the Dutch by Ming loyalists.



Speaking of Yunnan, Ming has lost a lot of territory from tiny Myanmar.
They did not _sell _out, they gave it away for free. 




> This is so blatantly false I don't need to refute this.



Well you don't need to since it is just a extreme metaphor

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## ChineseTiger1986

Wholegrain said:


> Unless you've been to Taiwan you have no idea wtf your talking about. Most of those dumb internet warrior huanghan are kids and teenagers sitting at their computers whining on online forums from mainland and they don't follow any political party. KMT does not preach that **** at all. Stop trying to look for a scapegoat. The KMT says the same thing as CPC about ethnic minorities.



I was talking about the Mainland KMT supporters, since all those Huanghan kids are worshipping KMT, thus it causes everyone to diss on KMT, so you can't blame us, but blame those dumb kids for making KMT looks bad.

BTW, i've seen many KMTers from Taiwan are still quite rational, no one is forcing you to love CPC, but accept CPC as a single ruling party is China's best interest.

The interest of both Hans and minorities should be protected, so it is our common interest to keep China together, not causing the divide with the things in the past.

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Manchu is a mixed ethnic group formed during the Yuan/Ming Dyansties, they were mixed of Jurchens/Khitans/Hans/Mongols/Koreans.

Of course, all ethnic groups in Dongbei have the close genetic relationship with the Siberians, but they were all mixed as well. Both Hans and those minorities were native there, so stop b1tching about the history.



sayina2012 said:


> During the Revolution,manchu Fled to Macau.
> 
> At that time,You are the conquered people.
> 
> &#23601;&#31639;&#22312;&#28595;&#38376;,&#20320;&#20204;&#20063;&#19981;&#36807;&#26159;&#33889;&#33796;&#29273;&#20154;&#32479;&#27835;&#19979;&#30340;&#20108;&#31561;&#20844;&#27665;,
> 
> &#29616;&#22312;&#30343;&#27721;&#25910;&#22238;&#20102;&#28595;&#38376;,&#21448;&#24684;&#19981;&#30693;&#32827;&#30340;&#35828;&#33258;&#24049;&#26159;&#20160;&#20040;&#28385;&#26063;,
> 
> &#28385;&#26063;&#26159;&#22823;&#38470;&#27665;&#26063;&#25919;&#31574;&#30340;&#20135;&#29289;,&#21487;&#19981;&#21253;&#25324;&#20320;&#20204;&#36825;&#20123;&#20007;&#23478;&#29356;&#12290;



PLA is Marxism-Maoism, not Huanghan, and why your hero KMT cannot take back HK and Macao?

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## ChineseTiger1986

sayina2012 said:


> No matter how much drama shoot, it can not change the history of aggression
> 
> &#22914;&#26524;&#35828;&#26085;&#26412;&#20154;&#26159;&#31165;&#20861;,&#37027;&#20320;&#20204;&#23601;&#26159;&#31165;&#20861;&#19981;&#22914;,
> 
> &#25293;&#37027;&#20040;&#22810;&#36779;&#23376;&#25103;,&#29482;&#23614;&#24052;&#26356;&#21152;&#35753;&#20154;&#21388;&#24694;&#12290;



Pigtail was disgusting, no one like it, Qing Dynasty was barbaric of forcing people to adopt this haircut. But so it is other Han Chinese Dynasties, the brutality of executions such as thousand cuts and split people by five horses were existed long before the Qing Dynasty.

All feudalistic dynasties of past were brutal, but nevertheless they were all part of China's history, China does evolve today, it evolve from feudalism (Qing) into capitalism (ROC), and finally into socialism (PRC).

Why it is so hard for you pea brain Huanghan to realize it?

Don't you know that the Imperial Japanese was trying to destroy the Chinese language and characters, they were trying to prevent the Chinese kids to speak Chinese during the WWII, at least the Qing Dynasty has preserved the Chinese language and characters.

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## sayina2012

beijingwalker said:


> You are the enemy of the Chinese people,but fortunately people like you bunch account for only a tiny tiny tiny...percentage in China.



I'm Han,han is china,Do you understand?

&#20320;&#20204;&#28385;&#20154;,&#25110;&#32773;&#20320;&#20204;&#36825;&#20123;&#27721;&#20843;&#26071;&#30340;&#21253;&#34915;&#22900;&#25165;&#19981;&#29245;,&#21487;&#20197;&#23398;&#32500;&#20154;,&#37327;&#20320;&#20204;&#27809;&#37027;&#20010;&#29399;&#32966;&#12290;

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## ChineseTiger1986

sayina2012 said:


> I'm Han,han is china,Do you understand?
> 
> &#20320;&#20204;&#28385;&#20154;,&#25110;&#32773;&#20320;&#20204;&#36825;&#20123;&#27721;&#20843;&#26071;&#30340;&#21253;&#34915;&#22900;&#25165;&#19981;&#29245;,&#21487;&#20197;&#23398;&#32500;&#20154;,&#37327;&#20320;&#20204;&#27809;&#37027;&#20010;&#29399;&#32966;&#12290;



You KMT losers dare to shout &#20809;&#22797;&#27665;&#22269;?

PLA would probably shoot you immediately in the skull, but our minority brothers and sisters are always with us.

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## Snomannen

sayina2012 said:


> I'm Han,han is china,Do you understand?
> 
> &#20320;&#20204;&#28385;&#20154;,&#25110;&#32773;&#20320;&#20204;&#36825;&#20123;&#27721;&#20843;&#26071;&#30340;&#21253;&#34915;&#22900;&#25165;&#19981;&#29245;,&#21487;&#20197;&#23398;&#32500;&#20154;,&#37327;&#20320;&#20204;&#27809;&#37027;&#20010;&#29399;&#32966;&#12290;



&#21448;&#30332;&#31070;&#32147;,

Han, Manchurian, Hun, Tibetan, Mongolian are all Chinese.
Except for Huanghans, they are nothing but troubles and losers.
&#32173;&#20154;&#21516;&#27171;&#22823;&#22810;&#25976;&#23433;&#20221;&#23432;&#24049;&#65292;&#25630;&#20107;&#30340;&#21482;&#26159;&#23569;&#37096;&#20998;&#20154;&#65292;
&#25105;&#20497;&#22823;&#23478;&#20840;&#37096;&#37117;&#24456;&#29245;&#65292;&#19981;&#29245;&#30340;&#23601;&#21482;&#26377;&#20320;&#20497;&#34647;&#34802;&#21644;&#21916;&#27489;&#25630;&#20107;&#30340;&#26997;&#31471;&#23569;&#25976;&#27665;&#26063;&#65292;&#30070;&#28982;&#36650;&#23376;&#36948;&#36084;&#31561;&#21453;&#33775;&#21218;&#21147;&#20063;&#21516;&#27171;&#36319;&#20320;&#20497;&#19968;&#27171;&#19981;&#29245;&#65294;

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## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> &#21834;&#65292;&#26159;&#21738;&#20491;&#20166;&#34903;&#28961;&#22240;&#28961;&#25925;&#25199;&#19978;&#28595;&#38272;&#25199;&#19978;&#29978;&#40636;&#20108;&#31561;&#20844;&#27665;&#20358;&#33879;&#30340;&#21602;&#65292;
> &#30495;&#26159;&#28858;&#34647;&#34802;&#30340;&#26234;&#21830;&#24863;&#21040;&#21487;&#24754;&#65294;
> &#28415;&#28165;&#24050;&#32147;&#26159;&#36942;&#21435;&#24335;&#65292;&#25105;&#25165;&#19981;&#26371;&#20687;&#26576;&#20123;&#34647;&#34802;&#29609;&#31359;&#36234;&#31359;&#21476;&#35037;&#25972;&#22825;&#21898;&#25105;&#22823;&#26126;&#33836;&#27506;&#65294;
> 
> Oh meu deus, &#35498;&#21477;&#20013;&#22283;&#20013;&#22830;&#25919;&#24220;&#20063;&#26371;&#34987;&#21676;&#65292;&#25105;&#22823;&#34647;&#34802;&#26377;&#22816;&#23041;&#27700;&#65294;
> 
> 
> 
> The funniest thing is , many of the massacres were commented by South Ming army, not by Qing's.



Most of these Huanghans are in fact &#26524;&#31881; masked themselves as &#26126;&#31881;.

The real &#26126;&#31881; does realize that the Ming Dynasty was far from perfect, when you truly love something is not defined by the blind love, but to know its both advantage and disadvantage.

As a feudalistic dynasty, i prefer the Ming Dynasty over the other Chinese dynasties, but as the territorial contribution, i have to admit that they indeed lagged behind the Qing Dynasty.

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## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> The funniest thing is , many of the massacres were commented by South Ming army, not by Qing's.



It could be, since all Han Chinese in the past strictly followed the ancient philosophy such as "&#23425;&#20026;&#29577;&#30862;&#65292;&#19981;&#20026;&#29926;&#20840;".

The best example is the fall of the South Song Dynasty, everyone jumped off the cliff including the junior Emperor and his family, because they chose to die rather than lived under the rule of the Mongols.

In the ancient time, even a woman got raped, she still had to commit suicide because she was already considered to be dirty and impure.

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## ChineseTiger1986

To all those KMT supporters:

- If you really love ROC, then please talk how those sacrificed KMT military personnels with their heroic behavior in the war against the Japanese invasion. But don't use this as an excuse to diss CPC's contribution in the war, remember during that time CPC also accepted the rule of KMT, they were allies in fighting against the Japanese invaders. They both have made their contribution to defend the motherland.

- The Chinese people will always remember the KMT patriots and martyrs, but not Chiang's puppet Zhejiangnese faction who had led our country into a disastrous situation.

- Now our motherland PRC is founded with the basis of 56 ethnic groups, so stop spitting the ethnic hatred of your anti-CPC agenda. All the ethnic minorities with different cultures and religions are our brothers and sisters.

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## Wholegrain

@KirovAirship

The Qing managed to take over the Ming because many Ming generals defected to them and they put them into yhe Han banner. The only reason they were able to get passed the Great Wall is because Wu Sangui joined them and let tthem through, and rebels like Li Zicheng already overthrew the Ming in Beijing. You cannot say Ming is militarily weak if they lost only due to defections
 @sayina2012

China is not just Han. During the Ming many minorities were part of China. The Salar Tusi all submitted to the Ming Emperor and serve in the Ming army. There were also Mongols serving in the Ming army. The Ming loyalists who fought against the Qing in northwest China led by Mi Layin and Ding Guodong were Hui. The Jurchen guard were even part of the Ming and Nurhaci was a Ming vassal before his revolt. You are full of crap.

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## sayina2012

Wholegrain said:


> @KirovAirship
> 
> The Qing managed to take over the Ming because many Ming generals defected to them and they put them into yhe Han banner. The only reason they were able to get passed the Great Wall is because Wu Sangui joined them and let tthem through, and rebels like Li Zicheng already overthrew the Ming in Beijing. You cannot say Ming is militarily weak if they lost only due to defections
> 
> @sayina2012
> 
> China is not just Han. During the Ming many minorities were part of China. The Salar Tusi all submitted to the Ming Emperor and serve in the Ming army. There were also Mongols serving in the Ming army. The Ming loyalists who fought against the Qing in northwest China led by Mi Layin and Ding Guodong were Hui. The Jurchen guard were even part of the Ming and Nurhaci was a Ming vassal before his revolt. You are full of crap.



"China is not just Han"?

GOOD,Why does the central leadership are Han Chinese??

&#21518;&#37329;&#26159;&#20010;&#29420;&#31435;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;,&#26159;&#26126;&#26397;&#30340;&#25932;&#22269;&#12290;
&#21035;&#24536;&#20102;,&#26085;&#26412;&#12289;&#26397;&#40092;&#12289;&#36234;&#21335;&#21476;&#20195;&#37117;&#21463;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#20876;&#23553;,
&#38590;&#36947;&#25239;&#26085;&#25112;&#20105;&#12289;&#36234;&#21335;&#25112;&#20105;&#12289;&#26397;&#40092;&#25112;&#20105;&#37117;&#26159;&#20869;&#25112;?

&#33778;&#24459;&#23486;&#24635;&#32479;&#36824;&#26377;&#21326;&#35028;&#34880;&#32479;&#21602;,&#21335;&#27801;&#20914;&#31361;,&#20320;&#21448;&#24590;&#20040;&#35299;&#37322;?

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## Bobshouse

The Chinese government should actively promote the flooding of Han non-religious people into Xinjiang. 
Whenever a population reaches a point where the majority of a population become Muslim then they will want their own country.


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## sayina2012

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> To all those KMT supporters:
> 
> - If you really love ROC, then please talk how those sacrificed KMT military personnels with their heroic behavior in the war against the Japanese invasion. But don't use this as an excuse to diss CPC's contribution in the war, remember during that time CPC also accepted the rule of KMT, they were allies in fighting against the Japanese invaders. They both have made their contribution to defend the motherland.
> 
> - The Chinese people will always remember the KMT patriots and martyrs, but not Chiang's puppet Zhejiangnese faction who had led our country into a disastrous situation.
> 
> - Now our motherland PRC is founded with the basis of 56 ethnic groups, so stop spitting the ethnic hatred of your anti-CPC agenda. All the ethnic minorities with different cultures and religions are our brothers and sisters.



GOOD,
But first,You must apologize for the crimes of aggression, such as the German introspection, we will forgive

If you learn the Japanese deny, we will never forgive

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## Enemy

sayina2012 said:


> "China is not just Han"?
> 
> GOOD,Why does the central leadership are Han Chinese??
> 
> &#21518;&#37329;&#26159;&#20010;&#29420;&#31435;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;,&#26159;&#26126;&#26397;&#30340;&#25932;&#22269;&#12290;
> &#21035;&#24536;&#20102;,&#26085;&#26412;&#12289;&#26397;&#40092;&#12289;&#36234;&#21335;&#21476;&#20195;&#37117;&#21463;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#20876;&#23553;,
> &#38590;&#36947;&#25239;&#26085;&#25112;&#20105;&#12289;&#36234;&#21335;&#25112;&#20105;&#12289;&#26397;&#40092;&#25112;&#20105;&#37117;&#26159;&#20869;&#25112;?
> 
> &#33778;&#24459;&#23486;&#24635;&#32479;&#36824;&#26377;&#21326;&#35028;&#34880;&#32479;&#21602;,&#21335;&#27801;&#20914;&#31361;,&#20320;&#21448;&#24590;&#20040;&#35299;&#37322;?



I somewhere read there are other ethnic Chinese except Han in the central leadership. Most of them are Han, may be, or they just happen to be Hans?

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## Ahiska

Bobshouse said:


> The Chinese government should actively promote the flooding of Han non-religious people into Xinjiang.
> Whenever a population reaches a point where the majority of a population become Muslim then they will want their own country.


That has nothing to do with religion it is an ethnic problem because the uyghurs are turkic not like the han majority in china.


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## Bobshouse

Ahiska said:


> That has nothing to do with religion it is an ethnic problem because the uyghurs are turkic not like the han majority in china.



Trust me, religion plays a major part in the separatist movement. The Chinese government has been playing down the religious issues very intelligently. It does not want to stir up any more trouble with the crazies that borders its country.


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## sayina2012

Enemy said:


> I somewhere read there are other ethnic Chinese except Han in the central leadership. Most of them are Han, may be, or they just happen to be Hans?



China and India share a similar history,
We all suffer from alien colonial rule,
And these aliens are distorting our history,
Beautify aggression, manufacturing disaster.
We had an advanced wealthy countries,
Because of the destruction of all alien behind the world,
So I think the Asian countries should unite.


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## Wholegrain

@ChineseTiger1986
 @KirovAirship

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## ChineseTiger1986

Bobshouse said:


> Trust me, religion plays a major part in the separatist movement. The Chinese government has been playing down the religious issues very intelligently. It does not want to stir up any more trouble with the crazies that borders its country.



Sometimes they have killed more Chinese Muslims, so this has to do with the religion issue?

They are just a bunch of Pan-Turkist radicals, they still stick with an ideology that even the Turkish goverment dumps away, they are just bunch of no brain terrorists.

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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> China and India share a similar history,
> We all suffer from alien colonial rule,
> And these aliens are distorting our history,
> Beautify aggression, manufacturing disaster.
> We had an advanced wealthy countries,
> Because of the destruction of all alien behind the world,
> So I think the Asian countries should unite.


Please tell me who you mean with alien rule......



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Sometimes they killed more Chinese Muslims, so this has to do with the religion issue?
> 
> They are just a bunch of Pan-Turkist radicals, they still stick with an ideology that the Turkish goverment dumps away, they are just bunch of no brain terrorists.


But there are also people who dont kill chinese who want an independant country not only violent terrorist but the problem i see is that in chinese media there is only those who use terrorist acts like this but what is with those who want to be peacefully independant?


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## Wholegrain

Ahiska said:


> Please tell me who you mean with alien rule......
> 
> 
> But there are also people who dont kill chinese who want an independant country not only violent terrorist but the problem i see is that in chinese media there is only those who use terrorist acts like this but what is with those who want to be peacefully independant?



Turkey has Kurds who also want to be "peacefully independent". Imagine if Kurds who migrate from eastern Anatolia into Istanbul claim the entire Turkey as their country. The Uyghur separatists are making up fake claims to own the entire Xinjiang province including the north (Dzhungharia) which is the native land of the Zunghars, not Uyghurs.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Ahiska said:


> Please tell me who you mean with alien rule......
> 
> 
> But there are also people who dont kill chinese who want an independant country not only violent terrorist but the problem i see is that in chinese media there is only those who use terrorist acts like this but what is with those who want to be peacefully independant?



These are terrorists as well, most Tibetans want to be part of China, while Dalai and his cronies are trying to brainwash our Tibetan youths, they want to use self-immolation to paint the Chinese government as the oppressor of the religion, in fact CPC always allows the religion freedom for the Tibetans.

Many of those self-immolating youths are in fact some young monks with misconducted behavior as a buddhist monk, thus Dalai and his cronies seek their weakness to convince them that the self-immolation was morally right.

While those young monks see the self-immolation as a way to wash their sin, but they are just too naive, since they just become as the cannon fodder of the foreign anti-China organizations.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Huanghan is losing more support among the Han nationalists, all real Han nationalists love PRC and other Chinese minorities.

They won't blame the entire ethnic group just because of few radical terrorists.

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## Ahiska

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> These are terrorists as well, most Tibetans want to be part of China, while Dalai and his cronies are trying to brainwash our Tibetan youths, they want to use self-immolation to paint the Chinese government as the oppressor of the religion, in fact CPC always allows the religion freedom for the Tibetans.
> 
> Many of those self-immolating youths are in fact some young monks with misconducted behavior as a buddhist monk, thus Dalai and his cronies seek their weakness to convince them that the self-immolation was morally right.
> 
> While those young monks see the self-immolation as a way to wash their sin, but they are just too naive, since they just become as the cannon fodder of the foreign anti-China organizations.


I dont really care about the Tibetans i speak about peaceful uyguhrs who want to be independant without killing han chinese or use violance.Do those persons or people have in china a plattform to speak or is it banned in china?



Wholegrain said:


> Turkey has Kurds who also want to be "peacefully independent". Imagine if Kurds who migrate from eastern Anatolia into Istanbul claim the entire Turkey as their country. The Uyghur separatists are making up fake claims to own the entire Xinjiang province including the north (Dzhungharia) which is the native land of the Zunghars, not Uyghurs.


Ok but what is when they owuld ask that only the south should be independant would you say it is ok or would you say they are terrorist?
I also mean they would ask about it peacefully without violance against han chinese?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Ahiska said:


> I dont really care about the Tibetans i speak about peaceful uyguhrs who want to be independant without killing han chinese or use violance.Do those persons or people have in china a plattform to speak or is it banned in china?
> 
> 
> Ok but what is when they owuld ask that only the south should be independant would you say it is ok or would you say they are terrorist?
> I also mean they would ask about it peacefully without violance against han chinese?



Most of Uighurs want to be part of China, that's why they are our brothers and sisters. Uighurs are part of Xinjiang, but Xinjiang also belongs to every other Chinese, including Hans and other minorities.

You should concern more about your own country's business, China respects Kazakhstan and wants to have a good relationship with your country.

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## Lux de Veritas

Ahiska said:


> I dont really care about the Tibetans i speak about peaceful uyguhrs who want to be independant without killing han chinese or use violance.Do those persons or people have in china a plattform to speak or is it banned in china?
> 
> 
> Ok but what is when they owuld ask that only the south should be independant would you say it is ok or would you say they are terrorist?
> I also mean they would ask about it peacefully without violance against han chinese?



In practice, very few states, in normal circumstances can allow region to secede as it would lead to civil war and destruction of unity states, just like USSR. USA fought a civil war to prevent secession of the South. 

Russia fought Chechen wars. Turk is fighting the Kurd. Pakistan is fighting Balichistan war. India is fighting war in NE. Sri Lanka fought Tamil. Spain fought Basque. Myanmar against their minorities.

The best hope for Uyghur is that Chinese central government fail. Then the regions can secede. But this is more likely to happen elsewhere like India or even USA than China.

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## Wholegrain

Ahiska said:


> I dont really care about the Tibetans i speak about peaceful uyguhrs who want to be independant without killing han chinese or use violance.Do those persons or people have in china a plattform to speak or is it banned in china?
> 
> 
> Ok but what is when they owuld ask that only the south should be independant would you say it is ok or would you say they are terrorist?
> I also mean they would ask about it peacefully without violance against han chinese?



If Kurds peacefully asked for independence would you support it?

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## Wholegrain

sayina2012 said:


> "ChineseTiger1986 " is not chinese(he is manchu).
> 
> Chinese majority think qing is not china,
> 
> Qing is Colonists + Aggressor + Parasites,
> 
> They come from Siberia, invaded Northeast China.
> 
> They massacred Chinese people, destruction of Chinese culture, the eradication of Chinese dress, betray Chinese territory,They exploit Chinese people, tampering Chinese history books, insults Chinese leader Sun Yat-sen, abusive Chinese hero Yue Fei.Colluded with the Japanese carved Chinese.



Just for everyone else to see, the Manchu Prince Duan ordered extermination of all foreign "barbarians" in China, incuding Japanese and westerners. This sayina2012 is claiming that his people "colluded with the Japanese". Last time I checked Wang Jingwei was Han, not a Manchu.

sayina2012 is an angry teenager or young adult taking out his real life frustrations online. He probably doesn't have a life IMHO.
 @Hu Songshan

sayina2012 hijacked this topic with abuseive posts towards towards ethnic minorities and racism. This thread needs to be cleared up.

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## Lux de Veritas

Pan Turkism is a very dangerous ideology and seems that many Turkic are supporting it. The Turkic are blind to the fact that under Pan Turkism in Turkey, 99% of the Christian are exterminated. This is the reason today Turkey is 99.8 Islam, while Levant Arabic countries still have significant Christian. Other than that, Turkish Shia muslim also get shitt. The Han Chinese vs Pan Turkism towards minority is like God vs Satan.

Today Pan Turkic cult is inflicting certain elements of Uighur in Xinjiang. If Pan Turkism has their way, all minorities in Xinjiang will be in trouble. In fact Pan Turkism is hated even by many Turks themselves. Iranian elites are Azerbaijani Turks. Ayatollah Kamenei is Azerbaijani Turks. In the war of Nagono Karabak, Islam Iran stand firmly behind Christian Armenia against Islam Azerbaijan, while Turkey support Azerbaijan.

Nevertheless, it is clear that Turkey is emerging. Pan Turkism could become a fad in coming decades. With the rise of Turkey, prepare for more trouble in Xinjiang.

I have did some research in Turkic languages. Although it is a wild exaggeration that a Turk can understand one another from Yumen to adriatic sea, but the mutual intelligibility of Turkic language is far more higher than Sinitic lect such as Mandarin and Taiwanese.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Lux de Veritas said:


> Pan Turkism is a very dangerous ideology and seems that many Turkic are supporting it. The Turkic are blind to the fact that under Pan Turkism in Turkey, 99% of the Christian are exterminated. This is the reason today Turkey is 99.8 Islam, while Levant Arabic countries still have significant Christian. Other than that, Turkish Shia muslim also get shitt. The Han Chinese vs Pan Turkism towards minority is like God vs Satan.
> 
> Today Pan Turkic cult is inflicting certain elements of Uighur in Xinjiang. If Pan Turkism has their way, all minorities in Xinjiang will be in trouble. In fact Pan Turkism is hated even by many Turks themselves. Iranian elites are Azerbaijani Turks. Ayatollah Kamenei is Azerbaijani Turks. In the war of Nagono Karabak, Islam Iran stand firmly behind Christian Armenia against Islam Azerbaijan, while Turkey support Azerbaijan.
> 
> Nevertheless, it is clear that Turkey is emerging. Pan Turkism could become a fad in coming decades. With the rise of Turkey, prepare for more trouble in Xinjiang.
> 
> I have did some research in Turkic languages. Although it is a wild exaggeration that a Turk can understand one another from Yumen to adriatic sea, but the mutual intelligibility of Turkic language is far more higher than Sinitic lect such as Mandarin and Taiwanese.



Most of the Muslims are our friends, even many of them are our compatriots, but the Pan-Turkist radicals are always our enemies.

The Islamic world won't side with them to against China for their own racist agenda.

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## ChineseTiger1986

sayina2012 said:


> Manchurian girl?
> GOOGLE manchu qing photo,SO terrible&#12290;
> 
> 
> &#29616;&#22312;&#30340;&#28385;&#26063;&#28436;&#21592;&#37117;&#26159;&#27721;&#20843;&#26071;&#65288;&#21253;&#34915;&#22900;&#25165;&#65289;&#30340;&#21518;&#20195;&#12290;



The people from hundred years ago won't certainly meet our modern beauty standard, you can just google other Han women and European women about hundred years ago, i bet most of them won't look attractive to you either.

So most of Manchus are mixed today, and the Qing Dynasty is long gone, and i never glorify it.

Why still so obsessed with it?

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## Ahiska

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Instead of keep dissing the Manchus, why don't spare more of your energy to condemn those separatists/terrorists?
> 
> Use your Huanghan chauvinism to attack those terrorists, i will be more pleased.


Thank you for your good answer and i will think about it for a bit its nice to write with someone who is polite.
And what does he have against manchus?


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## ChineseTiger1986

The Manchu women from the late Qing Dynasty, they looked absolutely normal from the era they lived.












The Han women from the late Qing Dynasty, they didn't look much different from the Manchu women.






The European women from the 19th century, they were merely 5 feet tall and didn't look nearly as good as the modern Europeans.

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## Ahiska

Lux de Veritas said:


> Pan Turkism is a very dangerous ideology and seems that many Turkic are supporting it. The Turkic are blind to the fact that under Pan Turkism in Turkey, 99% of the Christian are exterminated. This is the reason today Turkey is 99.8 Islam, while Levant Arabic countries still have significant Christian. Other than that, Turkish Shia muslim also get shitt. The Han Chinese vs Pan Turkism towards minority is like God vs Satan.
> 
> Today Pan Turkic cult is inflicting certain elements of Uighur in Xinjiang. If Pan Turkism has their way, all minorities in Xinjiang will be in trouble. In fact Pan Turkism is hated even by many Turks themselves. Iranian elites are Azerbaijani Turks. Ayatollah Kamenei is Azerbaijani Turks. In the war of Nagono Karabak, Islam Iran stand firmly behind Christian Armenia against Islam Azerbaijan, while Turkey support Azerbaijan.
> 
> Nevertheless, it is clear that Turkey is emerging. Pan Turkism could become a fad in coming decades. With the rise of Turkey, prepare for more trouble in Xinjiang.
> 
> I have did some research in Turkic languages. Although it is a wild exaggeration that a Turk can understand one another from Yumen to adriatic sea, but the mutual intelligibility of Turkic language is far more higher than Sinitic lect such as Mandarin and Taiwanese.


What is the problem with pan-turkism i dont want to kill anyone and i also hate no one.
But pan-turkism is for me the unity of turkic people when the uyguhrs want to be with china i dont have a problem with that but please dont demonise it.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Manchu women from the late Qing Dynasty, they looked absolutely normal from the era they lived.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Han women from the late Qing Dynasty, they don't look much different from the Manchu women.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The European women from the 19th century, they are merely 5 feet tall and didn't look nearly as good as the modern Europeans.



I read about the manchu and i also read that they did great things for china.
Are they general liked in china or is someone like sayina the majority i hope not....


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## ChineseTiger1986

Ahiska said:


> I read about the manchu and i also read that they did great things for china.
> Are they general liked in china or is someone like sayina the majority i hope not....



Most of the Chinese don't like Qing Dynasty, but they don't deny Qing's contribution to China's modern territory, and it is part of China's history.

Not many Han Chinese hate the Manchus nowadays, but Sayina is an exception here.


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## Ahiska

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most of the Chinese don't like Qing Dynasty, but they don't deny Qing's contribution to China's modern territory, and it is part of China's history.
> 
> Not many Han Chinese hate the Manchus nowadays, but Sayina is an exception here.



Ok thank you for your quick answer i hope there are many chinese like you in china.


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## Ahiska

I hope it goes peacefull there.


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## shuntmaster

northeast said:


> Great Qing empire took so large land in the north and west.it's definitely the strongest empire in the whole Chinese story.



Yuan (mongolian) dynasty under Kublai Khan was the largest. Tibet came under Chinese control during the Yuan dynasty period.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Ahiska said:


> Ok thank you for your quick answer i hope there are many chinese like you in china.



Most of Chinese are firm PRC supporters like me, thus they love all 56 ethnic groups.

All those ethnic groups belong to China, but they all deserve to keep their custom and religion.

Many Uighurs were recruited by the military, many of them work very hard, so CPC is giving the minorities more chance to get promoted into high rank officials.

CPC only cares about to follow the same ideology, not the difference between ethnicity and religion.


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## Ahiska

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most of Chinese are firm PRC supporters like me, thus they love all 56 ethnics.
> 
> All those ethnic groups belong to China, but they all deserve to keep their custom and religion.
> 
> Many Uighurs were recruited by the military, many of them work very hard, so CPC is giving the minorities to get promoted into high rank officials.
> 
> CPC only cares about to follow the same ideology, not the difference between ethnicity and religion.



That is good to hear you know when i hear about news like this the past of me and my people comes to my mind.
Because the soviet union was the total opposite of what you said.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Here is a modern Manchu actress from HK.

Zhou Haimei (&#21608;&#28023;&#23194:

--------------

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## ChineseTiger1986

Ahiska said:


> That is good to hear you know when i hear about news like this the past of me and my people comes to my mind.
> Because the soviet union was the total opposite of what you said.



Stalin is Georgian, yet he got promoted as the leader of USSR. Even Lenin is 1/4 Mongol.

I am not a big fan of USSR, but they were not as bad as the western nations want to portray.


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## Ahiska

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Stalin is Georgian, yet he got promoted as the leader of USSR. Even Lenin is 1/4 Mongol.
> 
> I am not a big fan of USSR, but they were not as bad as the western nations want to portray.



Yeah i liked Lenin but Stalin is another topic he infact did good things for the soviet union but you must know that he deported and killed 1/3 of my people because of stupid reasons and he did it when our men werent there because they fought in WW 2 for the soviets against germany.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Here is a modern Manchu actress from HK.
> 
> Zhou Haimei (&#21608;&#28023;&#23194:
> 
> --------------



She is really beautiful.
Can i ask for what sort of movie she is an actress?


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## Chinese-Dragon

Ahiska said:


> She is really beautiful.
> Can i ask for what sort of movie she is an actress?



She starred in typical mainstream movies and TV series in Hong Kong.


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## Ahiska

Chinese-Dragon said:


> She starred in typical mainstream movies and TV series in Hong Kong.


Ok thanks.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Here is a modern Manchu actress from HK.
> 
> Zhou Haimei (&#21608;&#28023;&#23194:
> 
> --------------



Everybody does become better looking from time to time. Of course, we all look better than the people from the 19th century.

Sometimes i found both fans of Ming and Qing Dynasties are delusional.

The fans of the Qing Dynasty expected their beloved Qing Dynasty looks something like this.






While the fans of the Ming Dynasty hopes something like this.






Seriously, i am getting tired of these guys who can get emotional because of the dramas, these beauties from 'Ming/Qing' were all created by the perspective of the modern beauty standard, no such women existed in that time.

*Those who are obsessed with the Ming Dyanasty, please travelling back to the Ming Dynasty.

Those who are obsessed with the Qing Dynasty, please travelling back to the Qing Dynasty.

Our modern nation is PRC, not Ming or Qing Dynasty.*

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## Lux de Veritas

Something a little out of topic.

Yakutst girl. They speak Turkic.The Yakutst live in Siberia and is the most northern Turkic tribe. They look very Asian compared to Anatolian Turk. I feel great affinity for Yakutst as they are mongoloid looking. When Russia conquered Siberia, Yakutst women were made sex slave while Russian gangster bleed their man.

Russian gangster keep a harem of Yakutst women giving them sexual disease decimating a large number of Yakutst. 

To Ahiska, wonder you feel more affinity to Yakutst or Anatolian? I am just curious.

Although I am a Han chinese, I can empathize the desire some Turks want to form greater turkestan. Today Turkey is a 3rd rate power. If Turkey manage to unite Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrghistan, the greater Turkestan will be sitting side by side with China, USA, Russia, Brazil, Canada, Australia and India. It will be a great power. It will have strategic depth and ability to conduct long term war.

But that will also destabilize China, Iran and Russia.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Lux de Veritas said:


> Something a little out of topic.
> 
> Yakutst girl. They speak Turkic.The Yakutst live in Siberia and is the most northern Turkic tribe. They look very Asian compared to Anatolian Turk. I feel great affinity for Yakutst as they are mongoloid looking. When Russia conquered Siberia, Yakutst women were made sex slave while Russian gangster bleed their man.
> 
> Russian gangster keep a harem of Yakutst women giving them sexual disease decimating a large number of Yakutst.
> 
> To Ahiska, wonder you feel more affinity to Yakutst or Anatolian? I am just curious



The original Turkics are mongoloids, while the Anatolian Turks are heavily with Europeans and Middle Easterners.


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## shuntmaster

DongBei girls are the prettiest

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## Sasquatch

Keep the posts in English this is an international forum, @sayina2012 if you continue to insult/accuse others of being Manchu you will be banned. Finally get back on topic.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

rcrmj said:


> ...for examples, the government letting Uyghur to have their own schools, *forbid their women to marry any non Uyghurs and forbid to change their religion....etc*



is that faire ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

shuntmaster said:


> DongBei girls are the prettiest



Dongbei girls are generally regarded as tall and busty, but some Jiangnan girls can be pretty tall and busty as well.

















But i don't like the Chinese girls to wear the skimpy clothes and try to be hot like the western girls. I prefer the Chinese girls to remain elegant and classic. IMO, i won't even marry a slutty Chinese girl like this.

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## sayina2012

Hu Songshan said:


> Keep the posts in English this is an international forum, @sayina2012 if you continue to insult/accuse others of being Manchu you will be banned. Finally get back on topic.



Who they are, I do not care&#12290;

They distort the history of manchu aggression&#65292;I Hate&#12290;

Massacres, aggression can never forgive

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## Sasquatch

sayina2012 said:


> Who they are, I do not care&#12290;
> 
> They distort the history of manchu aggression&#65292;I Hate&#12290;
> 
> Massacres, aggression can never forgive



If you want to rant about Manchus this is the wrong thread so if you have noting on topic with this leave, take note of the prior warning I gave you.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Dongbei girls are generally regarded as tall and busty, but some Jiangnan girls can be pretty tall and busty as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But i don't like the Chinese girls to wear the skimpy clothes and try to be hot like the western girls. I prefer the Chinese girls to remain elegant and classic. IMO, i won't even marry a slutty Chinese girl like this.



Same, I prefer them in elegant clothing rather than skimpy. I personally really like the look of a Chinese woman in Hanfu, that just looks amazing to me.

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## shuntmaster

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Dongbei girls are generally regarded as tall and busty, but some Jiangnan girls can be pretty tall and busty as well.




Dongbeiren girls are more European looking. And man.. can they drink..


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## ChineseTiger1986

shuntmaster said:


> Dongbeiren girls are more European looking. And man.. can they drink..



I don't think they are European looking, since very few of them have mixed with the Russians.

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## sayina2012

Hu Songshan said:


> If you want to rant about Manchus this is the wrong thread so if you have noting on topic with this leave, take note of the prior warning I gave you.




I know, I will not reply.

My English is not good, so the use of a number of Chinese language.

I hope our Pakistani friends and Indian friends see the historical truth, do not believe lie.

Han is a nation with a long history of civilization,

We have a beautiful Chinese clothing ---- HANFU, 17 century it had been the aggressor eliminated, but today's young people began to wear a HANFU, hope friends around the world can understand HANFU !


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## DESERT FIGHTER

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Dongbei girls are generally regarded as tall and busty, but some Jiangnan girls can be pretty tall and busty as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *But i don't like the Chinese girls to wear the skimpy clothes and try to be hot like the western girls. I prefer the Chinese girls to remain elegant and classic. IMO, i won't even marry a slutty Chinese girl like this.*



True man...

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

since this thread is relate to Uyghur, let's entertaine with some "Uyghur" dance

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## cnleio

2013.6.30 pics in XinJiang, Kashi. The Kashi city in the south of China XinJiang, local residents most r Uigur and few r Chinese Hans. That city was ever worst-terror area coz local Uygur power is larger than other ethnic groups also larger than Chinese Hans. Due to this month terrorist attack in other XinJiang city, China government strengthen public security and many police unites patrolling streets.

News link:&#26032;&#30086;&#21888;&#20160;&#34903;&#22836;/6.30 Kashi street pics

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## cnleio



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## Imran Khan

look good thanks


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## anilindia

BEIJING: China's Communist Party has blamed terrorists from "outside the country" for the rise in violence in the restive Xinjiang province, which borders Pakistan and Central Asia. Last week's clashes in the province, scene of a decades-old separatist movement involving Uighur Muslims, left 35 dead and 21 injured.


The official Xinhua news agency quoted Yu Zhengsheng, member of the Communist Party of China (CPC) central committee , as saying that "separatists in and outside the country have been escalating their efforts", to cause disturbances. 

Chinese leaders are expected to discuss the free movement of Taliban-backed terrorists on the China-Pakistan border during the visit of Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to Beijing, from July 4. 

Xinjiang's local leaders have earlier blamed Pakistan as the source of weapons and training for terrorists operating in the region. But Yu refrained from naming any country. However, he admitted that some "deep-seated problems challenging Xinjiang's social stability have not been completely solved". 

China may put Xinjiang terror on Sharif menu - The Times of India


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## cnleio

2013.6.30 street pics in XingJiang,Urumchi city. The Urumchi city in the north of XinJiang. Local residents most r Chinese Hans and few Uigur, but last 2009.7.5 riot the Uigur terrorists coming from other places killed 192 innocents in this city. 

News link: 6&#26376;30&#26085;&#20044;&#40065;&#26408;&#40784;&#34903;&#22836;/6.30 Urumchi street pic

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## cnleio

6.30 7:00am street pics in Urumchi city

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## sms

Nice Pictures!!
Keep them coming.

Just curious why most of the people in picture you've posted does not looks like Xin Jiang's natives/ local people?

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## cnleio

July 5 is coming, China armed police and police units patrolling the street

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## Okemos

sms said:


> Nice Pictures!!
> Keep them coming.
> 
> Just curious why most of the people in picture you've posted does not looks like Xin Jiang's natives/ local people?



Northern Xinjiang has always been Han dominated, so not sure what you mean by local people. Han lived in that area ever since Han Wudi(Emperor in Han Dynasty, whose name our ethnicity has ever been known) chased off Xiongnu (Hun) in about 100BC. In fact, Ugurs were quite recent migrants. 

Emperor Wu of Han - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyone, don't wanna derail the thread. Nice pics.

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## cnleio

sms said:


> Nice Pictures!!
> Keep them coming.
> 
> Just curious why most of the people in picture you've posted does not looks like Xin Jiang's natives/ local people?


There's no some difference between XinJiang Hans and inland Hans. In Urumchi city most r XinJiang Hans and some Uigur, in kashi city most r XinJiang Uigur.

Does the XinJiang Hans look like XinJiang Uigur ?

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## sms

Okemos said:


> Northern Xinjiang has always been Han dominated, so not sure what you mean by local people. Han lived in that area ever since Han Wudi(Emperor in Han Dynasty, whose name our ethnicity has ever been known) chased off Xiongnu (Hun) in about 100BC. In fact, Ugurs were quite recent migrants.
> 
> Emperor Wu of Han - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Anyone, don't wanna derail the thread. Nice pics.





cnleio said:


> There's no some difference between XinJiang Hans and inland Hans. In Urumchi city most r XinJiang Hans and some Uigur, in kashi city most r XinJiang Uigur.
> 
> Does the XinJiang Hans look like XinJiang Uigur ?



I'm confused now both statements are conflicting each other.

PS: Rest assured that intention to derail this thread.


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## American spying

Hans and Uighur are interbreeding. Making babies between us means there is no clear distinction.


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## doremon

cnleio said:


> There's no some difference between XinJiang Hans and inland Hans. In Urumchi city most r XinJiang Hans and some Uigur, in kashi city most r XinJiang Uigur.
> 
> Does the XinJiang Hans look like XinJiang Uigur ?



1question which is majority religion in xinjiang


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## cnleio

sms said:


> I'm confused now both statements are conflicting each other.
> 
> PS: Rest assured that intention to derail this thread.


To search google map, where's the Urumchi city and Kashi city and which location 2x cities in XinJiang. 
There'r both Hans and Uigur living together in two cities, just more Hans living in Urumchi and more Uigur living in Kashi.



> Just curious why most of the people in picture you've posted does not looks like Xin Jiang's natives/ local people?


A stupid question. Does the XinJiang Hans not belong to XinJiang's natives ? The local ppl only is XinJiang Uigur ? NO, both XinJiang Hans and Uigur all r XinJiang's natives, @Okemos have answered ur question coz hundred years ago XinJiang Hans had been living in North of XinJiang, the Uigur mainly living in South of XinJiang.


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## cnleio

doremon said:


> 1question which is majority religion in xinjiang



2012 data


> &#20854;&#20013;&#27721;&#26063;&#20154;&#21475;874&#65292;6148&#20154;&#65292;&#21344;&#24635;&#20154;&#21475;&#30340;40.1%
> &#32500;&#21566;&#23572;&#26063;&#20154;&#21475;1006&#65292;9346&#20154;&#65292;&#21344;&#24635;&#20154;&#21475;&#30340;46.2%
> &#20854;&#20182;&#23569;&#25968;&#27665;&#26063;&#20154;&#21475;299,7840&#20154;&#65292;&#21344;&#24635;&#20154;&#21475;&#30340;13.7%



XinJiang Hans population:874,6148, seize 40.1%
XinJiang Uigur population: 1,006,9346, seize 46.2%
XinJiang other minority nationalities: 299,7840, seize 13.7%

Currently is the Islam coz most Uigur believe Islam, most of Hans r non-religion

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## q12093487q

Developereo said:


> Not only does it happen in Africa and Southeast Asia, it happens in the richest countries: the London riots, the LA Watts riots, gang culture, etc.
> 
> People who feel that they have been cheated by the system are more susceptible to exploitation by extremists and to break the law. Of course, a lot of common criminals also hide behind this excuse, so it is not a simple matter.
> 
> None of this is meant to excuse the behavior of terrorists and criminals, but to understanding the underlying motivations.
> 
> Criminology and sociology are complex subjects.



I agree with you.But education and giving them good jobs can definitely reduce this kind of things.
Strange people in everywhere.Maybe a millionaire can kill people for no reason.But you will never see 100 millionaires with comfortable jobs organizing a terrorist attack


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## Ahiska

Lux de Veritas said:


> Something a little out of topic.
> 
> Yakutst girl. They speak Turkic.The Yakutst live in Siberia and is the most northern Turkic tribe. They look very Asian compared to Anatolian Turk. I feel great affinity for Yakutst as they are mongoloid looking. When Russia conquered Siberia, Yakutst women were made sex slave while Russian gangster bleed their man.
> 
> Russian gangster keep a harem of Yakutst women giving them sexual disease decimating a large number of Yakutst.
> 
> To Ahiska, wonder you feel more affinity to Yakutst or Anatolian? I am just curious.
> 
> Although I am a Han chinese, I can empathize the desire some Turks want to form greater turkestan. Today Turkey is a 3rd rate power. If Turkey manage to unite Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrghistan, the greater Turkestan will be sitting side by side with China, USA, Russia, Brazil, Canada, Australia and India. It will be a great power. It will have strategic depth and ability to conduct long term war.
> 
> But that will also destabilize China, Iran and Russia.


I dont think it would destabilize China or Russiabecause they give the Turkics in their country enough freedom but Iran is another topic.


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## Pksecurity

China, while putting the blame on Wahabi/Salafist elements for unrest in its far-western region of Xinjiang, has linked the terrorist activities in China with Syrian opposition fighters stating that Syrian opposition forces are training Muslim extremists. The Syrian opposition fighters are believed to be elements of al Qaeda being funded and armed by Western countries and the US. They are fighting to overthrow pro-Iran Assad regime to enforce in Syria their brand of Islam which is practiced in Saudi Arabia.
Reuters has reported that it was the first time Beijing has blamed a group in Syria and fits a common narrative of the government portraying Xinjiang's violence as coming from abroad, such as Pakistan, and not due to homegrown anger. The extremists operating in Xinjiang want to liberate the area from China to establish a new state, East Turkestan. Xinjiang, though a part of Chinese union has a semi-independent status like Hong Kong and called Special Administrative Region. This province is populated by majority ethnic Uighurs who are predominantly Muslims and seek independence for religious as well as cultural reasons. 
According to official Chinese anti-terrorism authorities, some members of the 'East Turkestan' faction have entered Syria from Turkey, participated in extremist, religious and terrorist organizations within the Syrian opposition forces and fought against the Syrian army. This is going on since 2012. 
The world is clearly divided on Syrian crisis with Iran openly backing the incumbent regime and Russia extending moral and material support. With China now blaming its internal troubles on anti-Assad rebels, it is expected that pro-Assad support base will widen. The analysts feel that the US and its allies are making huge blunder in supporting Syrian rebels who are al Qaeda elements. Once they seize power in Syria, a remote possibility, then the world will witness increased terrorist activities beyond South Asia and the Middle East.

Terrorists in Xinjiang were trained by Syrian opposition forces, blames China

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## Devil Soul

US responsible for terrorism in Xinjiang: China
By AFP Published: July 1, 2013
URUMQI: The United States is encouraging &#8220;terrorism&#8221; in Xinjiang, Chinese state media said Monday, also claiming that separatists in the region &#8211; which has a large Uighur minority &#8211; had fought alongside Syrian rebels.

Beijing denies that unrest in the vast region bordering Central Asia &#8211; which last week left at least 35 people dead &#8211; is due to ethnic tensions between the Uighurs and China&#8217;s majority Han.
It has vowed to crack down on &#8220;terrorist groups&#8221;, ordering military exercises ahead of Friday&#8217;s anniversary of major riots in 2009 that left around 200 dead.

But rights groups for the mostly Muslim Uighurs blame unrest on economic inequality and religious repression, something that Washington has raised concerns against.

The People&#8217;s Daily, a mouthpiece for the ruling Communist Party, slammed the US government and media for what it said was its role in the violence.

&#8220;For fear of a lack of chaos in China,&#8221; it said in a commentary, the US was &#8220;conspiring to direct the calamity of terrorist activities toward China&#8221;.

&#8220;America&#8217;s double standards on the issue of countering terrorism are no different than incitement and indulgence&#8230;how is this different than those who act as accomplices to terrorism?&#8221; it said.

It asked if the 9/11 attacks and Boston marathon bombings in April meant &#8220;America&#8217;s ethnic and religious policies also have problems&#8221;, while rejecting such linkages in China.

&#8220;The violent terrorist incidents in Xinjiang are not an ethnic issue or a religious issue,&#8221; it said, calling the &#8220;massacres&#8221; of officials and bystanders &#8220;inhumane&#8221;.

According to the official Xinhua news agency, &#8220;knife-wielding mobs&#8221; attacked police stations and other sites in the town of Lukqun last Wednesday before security personnel arrived and opened fire. At least 35 people were killed.

Two days later, Xinhua said that more than a 100 &#8220;terrorists&#8221; provoked &#8220;riots&#8221; in the prefecture of Hotan, attacking people &#8220;who had gathered at local religious venues&#8221;.

Last Friday a US State Department spokesman said it was &#8220;deeply concerned about the ongoing reports of discrimination against and restrictions on Uighurs in China&#8221;.

He said the US urged a &#8220;transparent investigation&#8221; but did not want to &#8220;draw broader conclusions&#8221; about the incidents.

The state-run Global Times criticised Western media and public opinion on Monday for misrepresenting the violence as ethnic conflict, referring to it instead as &#8220;violent terrorism fuelled by the West&#8221;.

&#8220;Western public opinion is fooling these ignorant extremists through cheap support,&#8221; the paper said in an editorial.

This &#8220;indulges the views of these violent terrorists, who are in fact a small, isolated group&#8221;, it said.

In a separate article only available in Chinese, the paper accused members of the &#8220;East Turkestan&#8221; movement of joining &#8220;terrorist groups&#8221; in Syria to fight the government of Bashar al-Assad before returning to Xinjiang to plot attacks.

It cited the case of a man in his 20s recruited by an &#8220;education and mutual aid association&#8221; acting as a terrorist training front.

After being sent to Syria, the recruit was ordered back to Xinjiang to &#8220;raise&#8221; the level of the struggle there, where he was caught.

The Uyghur World Congress hit back at what it called China&#8217;s &#8220;distorting accusations&#8221;.

&#8220;Uighurs live in an outdoor prison,&#8221; it said in an emailed statement, adding that their &#8220;resistance had nothing to do with terrorism&#8221;.

On Saturday, large sections of the Xinjiang capital Urumqi were shut down as military vehicles took to the streets with at least 1000 personnel from the People&#8217;s Armed Police, part of China&#8217;s armed forces responsible for law enforcement and internal security during peacetime.

Beijing&#8217;s assertive presence on the ground comes ahead of the sensitive anniversary of riots between Uighurs and China&#8217;s ethnic majority Han four years ago.

The Muslim fasting month of Ramadan is also expected to begin next week.
In recent decades many Han Chinese have relocated to Xinjiang, which is rich in coal and gas, provoking friction.

The two communities tend to live in separate neighbourhoods in Urumqi, and a greater security presence could be seen in the Uighur area on Monday.

Paramilitary forces stood in clusters every 100 metres or so around the grand bazaar, and police vehicles drove by occasionally.

Beijing denies repressing China&#8217;s ethnic minorities, who make up less than 10 percent of the national population and enjoy some preferential policies.


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## cnleio

Through the Turkey into Syria,that's TRUTH. Only the Turkey support fvcking 'East Turkestan', China should make them pay for it.

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## nomi007

100% agree


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## iranigirl2

cnleio said:


> Through the Turkey into Syria,that's TRUTH. Only the Turkey support fvcking 'East Turkestan', China should make them pay for it.




If this is true..

China should support the Kurds and other minorities in turkey, like Armenians, Alawites,etc..

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## SajeevJino

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/261544-us-responsible-terrorism-xinjiang-china.html

I think China Should Announce war Against KSA and USA for this Terror Act

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## rockstarIN

Why should they go too long when it is available on sale nearby?


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## Hellraiser007

I agree with this 100 %


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## Spring Onion

Thorugh al-Qaeda Syrian rebels' branch.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I don't want to make any speculation until getting Chinese official statements, wrongfully accused other is also a crime. I believe China is capable to deal with the source of problem.


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## SirHatesALot

I thought China has accused USA for this problem.

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## SirHatesALot

Damn,someone said Syrians were training them.


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## cnleio

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I don't want to make any speculation until getting Chinese official statements, wrongfully accused other is also a crime. I believe China is capable to deal with the source of problem.


Read this, official GlobalTimes.cn news: Xinjiang terrorists finding training, support in Syria, Turkey



> From a foreign student studying in Istanbul to a soldier receiving training in Syria's Aleppo, to a terrorist plotting attacks in China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, 23-year-old Memeti Aili said he felt like his dream was turned into a nightmare.
> 
> Memeti Aili was recently caught by the police when returning to Xinjiang to complete his mission to "carry out violent attack and improve fighting skills" assigned by the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (ETIM). ETIM is a terrorist group that aims to create an Islamist state in Xinjiang, which works alongside the East Turkistan Education and Solidarity Association (ETESA), an Istanbul-based exile group.
> 
> "After hearing their lectures, all I could think about was jihad and I totally abandoned my studies and my family," he told the police. "But thinking back, it was like a nightmare."
> 
> Unwelcome to battle
> 
> *In 2011, after graduating from university in Urumqi, Memeti Aili went to study in Turkey like many other Muslim Ugyhur students. Soon after settling down in Istanbul, someone from the ETESA approached and offered him "help."*
> 
> A year later, after studying the lessons they provided,* Memeti Aili was informed by ETESA and ETIM that he had been selected to travel to Syria to join the fighting.
> *
> *Together with other young people, Memeti Aili travelled to Aleppo, the largest city located in northwestern Syria and arranged to join the rebels.* The percentage of foreign fighters in Syria has reached up to 80 percent from 29 countries such as Libya, Turkey, Lebanon and Yemen, according to Omran Zoubi, Minister of Information in the Assad government.
> 
> Before arriving in Syria, Memeti Aili said he had never touched a gun.
> 
> Together these young people received seven days of training in the suburbs of Aleppo where there was no water or electricity supply, and food was scarce.
> 
> "We had to change sites four times a day in fear of possible bombings from the Syrian army, therefore we didn't learn that much during that week," he recalled.
> 
> *During the training, he was shown how to shoot a gun and make bombs. But not all of them had the chance to practice and many just watched and hoped that something would sink in.
> 
> After this rushed training, Memeti Aili was assigned to join the Free Syrian Army (FSA), an armed opposition structure operating in Syria.*

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

^..well ask ourself this question before getting upset with this terrorist issue...is China gonna turn blind-eyes? if the answer is yes, then it's useless to jump up and down like monkey, if the answer is no, then let the gorvernment do with more professional way...we can curse, we can bash we can basphem...it won't help our cause.


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## ELTurco

@cnleio @iranigirl2

Extremely emotional comments..


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## root

Lol turns out it is Syria/Turkey that China has accused not Pakistan but typical indian media bullsh!t - ******* Assholes obsessed with Pakistan.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ng-were-trained-syrian-opposition-forces.html

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## vostok

If Russia and China will not stop terrorists in Syria, then in few years terror war will come to Central Asia. After that - to Russian and Chinese muslim regions.

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## rcrmj

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> is that faire ?



I said its unfaire,

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

vostok said:


> If Russia and China will not stop terrorists in Syria, then in few years terror war will come to Central Asia. After that - to Russian and Chinese muslim regions.



I believe there is certain limits that China and Russia will accept, cross the red line set by each respective country will definely trigger the proportional respond, China is now more concern about economy than war...


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## Scythian

There is no such thing as Syrian opposition forces. There is only Al qeada which is funded by saudis scums, Torks, and qataris. 

It's time for China to push it's weight around and not let the wahabis,torks to carry on this terrorism funding.

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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> There is no such thing as Syrian opposition forces. There is only Al qeada which is funded by saudis scums, Torks, and qataris.
> 
> It's time for China to push it's weight around and not let the wahabis,torks to carry on this terrorism funding.


And what do you think the Iranians or China will do something?
You Iranians make with the Turks the biggest profits and now imagine if Turkey wouldnt trade with you.
And China makes great business with us like they do with japan it doesnt matter what happens in politics when it goes for business even you greatest enemy can become you best trading partner.


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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> I know, I will not reply.
> 
> My English is not good, so the use of a number of Chinese language.
> 
> I hope our Pakistani friends and Indian friends see the historical truth, do not believe lie.
> 
> Han is a nation with a long history of civilization,
> 
> We have a beautiful Chinese clothing ---- HANFU, 17 century it had been the aggressor eliminated, but today's young people began to wear a HANFU, hope friends around the world can understand HANFU !


Why do you hate Manchus that much they intigrated well into china and helped China become strong i wished where i live we would have had a minority who would have done such good things for us.


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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> And what do you think the Iranians or China will do something?
> You Iranians make with the Turks the biggest profits and now imagine if Turkey wouldnt trade with you.
> And China makes great business *with us* like they do with japan it doesnt matter what happens in politics when it goes for business even you greatest enemy can become you best trading partner.



What do you mean by "us"? Are you a Tork? 
Iran could in a blink of an eye start moving our companies out of Turkey to other nations.
You seem to think only Iran benefits from having companies in Turkey lol, It's a two way street.

Iran-Turkey economical are only temporary, once Iran's regime changes and becomes more nationalistic, you will see Iran Turkey ties go down completely. 

Turkey cannot offer anything to Iran in the long run. Turkey has no major natural resources. Iran on the other hand is very important to Turkey.
Turkeys gets 50% of it's oil from Iran.


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## cnleio

ELTurco said:


> @cnleio @iranigirl2
> 
> Extremely emotional comments..


I just talk the truth, r u afraid of truth?
The ETESA and ETIM in Turkey, it's truth.
Some Uygur guys were sent to Syria rebles, it's truth.
They studied in Turkey then join Syria Free Army, it's truth.

The China offical news has proved it, today released above news to tell all Chinese ppl How Turkey treats China XinJiang issue.

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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> What do you mean by "us"? Are you a Tork?
> Iran could in a link of an eye start moving our companies out of Turkey to other nations.
> You seem to think only Iran benefits from having companies in Turkey lol, It's a two way street.
> 
> Iran-Turkey economical are only temporary, once Iran's regime changes and becomes more nationalistic, you will see Iran Turkey ties go down completely.
> 
> Turkey cannot offer anything to Iran in the long run. Turkey has no major natural resources. Iran on the other hand is very important to Turkey.
> Turkeys gets 50% of it's oil from Iran.


Yeah Turkey cannot offer something they sell gold to you so you will not become poor because of the us sanctions and yes Tork is an insult to all Turkic people and you name scythian describes what you are we turkics kicked you iranians out of central asia so you still have something against us.


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## Scythian

These Torks are a joke .
They claim everything to be Turkish.

They are very insecure and suffer from a major identity crisis.
Some of the even claimed they are the scythian, Sumerians and so on. 
They even try to claim Azaris in Iran are Torks just because they speak Torkish. 

Turks base their history on a mythical story written by a Persian called ferdowsi.

Genetically speaking, Azaris are no where near a Tork. They just happened to speak a Torkish language, this is slowly changing, the azari speaking people are reducing greatly as they are switching to their true mother tongue, Persian.

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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> Yeah Turkey cannot offer something they sell gold to you so you will not become poor because of the us sanctions and yes Tork is an insult to all Turkic people and you name scythian describes what you are we turkics kicked you iranians out of central asia so you still have something against us.



Even gold is not great anymore.barter trade is the future.
Iran even under all these sanctions, is still growing. in the 70's, torks used to come to Iran to beg. If there were no sanction on Iran, we would easily had been top ten economy by now.

Regarding your final statments, Turkics kicked us out of central asia. lol what?

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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> Even gold is not great anymore.barter trade is the future.
> Iran even under all these sanctions, is still growing. in the 70's, torks used to come to Iran to beg. If there were no sanction on Iran, we would easily had been top ten economy by now.
> 
> Regarding your final statments, Turkics kicked us out of central asia. lol what?


Yeah we did look into a history book turkmenistan usbekistan azerbaijan kyrgistan those were areas that the iranians lived but then we came and kicked you out of there the only place in central asia where you are a majority is tajikistan nothing more and like i said stop calling us tork that is insulting.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

I think that Chinese land is big enough for Han Chinese, so the Han should let return to freedom of Uyghurs and their independent muslim country...

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## Albatross

vostok said:


> If Russia and China will not stop terrorists in Syria, then in few years terror war will come to Central Asia. After that - to Russian and Chinese muslim regions.


But the best way to stop this terror is to talk with US who is funding and misguiding these miscreants through front men .


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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> Yeah we did look into a history book turkmenistan usbekistan azerbaijan kyrgistan those were areas that the iranians lived but then we came and kicked you out of there the only place in central asia where you are a majority is tajikistan nothing more and like i said stop calling us tork that is insulting.



All those countries your mention may have adopted Torkish language but that does not change their ethnicity, Azerbijan,tajistan are completely Iranic genetically. Torks are a branch of mongoloids. 
You torks are bunch of insecure people with identity crisis. 

A culture which bases it's history on a mythical Persian story written by Ferdowsi cannot be taken seriously.

You need to stop stealing other nations cultures. Be proud of your Mongolian identity.


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## cnleio

Today China all mainstream of news media released the headline r &#12298;One Uygur terrorist arrested back to XinJiang from Syria rebel&#12299;

&#19968;&#21517;&#19996;&#31361;&#20998;&#23376;&#20174;&#21465;&#21033;&#20122;&#28508;&#22238;&#26032;&#30086;&#34987;&#25429;

I think billions of Chinese have read it and know what's role Turkey played in China XinJiang riot.


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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> All those countries your mention may have adopted Torkish language but that does not change their ethnicity, Azerbijan,tajistan are completely Iranic genetically. Torks are a branch of mongoloids.
> Your torks are bunch of insecure people with identity crisis.
> 
> A culture which bases it's history on a mythical Persian story written by Ferdowsi cannot be taken seriously.
> 
> You need to stop stealing other nations cultures. Be proud of your Mongolian identity.


And now you show your racism against turkic people you are just like the greeks live in your former glory as the world you now live breaks down Azerbaijan will never be persian .
And our language is a turkic language related to mongolian but it isnt the same.
Also I reported you for the word Tork because everyone in this forum knows that it is an insult to turkic people.


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## ephone

If this is true, we should support Assad not only in UN but also provide him with better weapons. 

In addition, we should provide serious warning to Turkey before we offer any serious support to those separatists in Turkey as well.

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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> And now you show your racism against turkic people you are just like the greeks live in your former glory as the world you now live breaks down Azerbaijan will never be persian .
> And our language is a turkic language related to mongolian but it isnt the same.
> Also I reported you for the word Tork because everyone in this forum knows that it is an insult to turkic people.



How old are you kid? In Persian we say Tork, we have no U, so how on earth is Tork an insult? Are you insulted by your own identity? 

Azerbaijan will never be Turkish? Everything about Azaris except their language is Iranic. Their culture (They celebrate nowruz), their Genetics. They only thing they have which is not Iranic is their language. I am from an Azari family myself, my grandfather could speak Torkic related kanguage but now, not a single Person in my family speaks any language like that. 

Torks were originally a mongolian tribe, whilst Azaris are a part of the Iranic tribe like Persians,lors,Kurds and so on.


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## ephone

But I think those terrorists are getting into/Out of China through Pakistan though.

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## ephone

Any terrorists, if not in U.S. territory or not currently hurting U.S. directly, U.S. will support them in certain way.


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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> How old are you kid? In Persian we say Tork, we have no U, so how on earth is Tork an insult? Are you insulted by your own identity?
> 
> Azerbaijan will never be Turkish? Everything about Azaris except their language is Iranic. Their culture (They celebrate nowruz), their Genetics. They only thing they have which is not Iranic is their language. I am from an Azari family myself, my grandfather could speak Torkic related kanguage but now, not a single Person in my family speaks any language like that.
> 
> Torks were originally a mongolian tribe, whilst Azaris are a part of the Iranic tribe like Persians,lors,Kurds and so on.


Turks were never from an Mongolian Tribe where did you read something like that?
And the "Torks" in Azerbaijan are proud Turkic people no one can speak iranian why should they feel close to you?
And nowruz is celebrated everywhere in this region and not only by persians.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

*@Ahiska and @Sythian* Turk and Persian are ancient people that we Chinese has encountered prior westerner, personally I don't want to pick side emotionally just because this terrorist issue.


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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> Turks were never from an Mongolian Tribe where did you read something like that?
> And the "Torks" in Azerbaijan are proud Turkic people no one can speak iranian why should they feel close to you?
> And nowruz is celebrated everywhere in this region and not only by persians.



I don't have time to keep replying to some brain dead propaganda machine. 
Only a braindead Person would not understand the fact, speaking a certain language will not alter your DNA to match the ethnicity of the people who created that language. In other words, speaking French does not make me a French man ethnic wise.

There is nothing Tork about the people of Azerbijan except the words they use to communicate. Next you will be telling me a parot is also a Tork because it can utter Torkish words. 

DNA testing have shows Azari people are extremely close to Persians and far from being a Tork.

Nowruz is a Persian culture, this is precisely my point. The only thing Torkish about Azaris is their language, and in Iran, we are getting rid of that foreign non-Iranic language.


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## Ahiska

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> *@Ahiska and @Sythian* Turk and Persian are ancient people that we Chinese has encountered prior westerner, personally I don't want to pick side emotionally just because this terrorist issue.



I also dont want that i didnt write anything against china but the Iranians most of the time see it as their duty to demonise Turkey and Turks look what he wrote that we are mongols.

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## Scythian

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> *@Ahiska and @Sythian* Turk and Persian are ancient people that we Chinese has encountered prior westerner, personally I don't want to pick side emotionally just because this terrorist issue.



Sorry brother, but I am just educating that brain dead propagandist. I am simply saying, the only thing Torkish about Azaris is their language, nothing else. Genetics wise and culture wise they are Iranic.

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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> Sorry brother, but I am just educating that brain dead propagandist. I am simply saying, the only thing Torkish about Azaris is their language, nothing else. Genetics wise and culture wise they are Iranic.



Why do you insult me did i insult you i merely disagree with what you say you must not insult me for it.


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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> Why do you insult me did i insult you i merely disagree with what you say you must not insult me for it.



You are insulting me and my ancestors by trying to claim we are something we are not. Who do you think you are to just label an ancient people like azaris with whatever title suits your agenda?


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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> You are insulting me and my ancestors by trying to claim we are something we are not. Who do you think you are to just label an ancient people like azaris with whatever title suits your agenda?


And why dou you write that Turks are Mongolian then you started insulting me.


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## Echo_419

100% agreed the us must stop this


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## Scythian

Ahiska said:


> And why dou you write that Turks are Mongolian then you started insulting me.



I have nothing against Mongolian to use their identity as an insult. As far as I am aware Torks are a Mongoloid group of people. There is nothing wrong with that and you should be proud of who you are. But when you go around making statements about my ancestors then don't expect a kind reply. What I tell you is not just my opinion, it's backed by Genetics and culture. I have my DNA data and I assure you, there is nothing Tork about me, same applies to my grandfather whom spoke a Torkic language, yet his DNA remained the same and has no Torkish in him.

Why do you insist on taking other people's identity? If a certain person wants to adopts a certain culture then good for him/her but that does not change their real identity and who their ancestors were. 

Azaris are as much Iranian as you can get. Do not fall for the propaganda created by Pan-Torks.
If you want to come to Iran's Azarbaijan then I'll welcome you, You can even be a guest at my house. You should come and meet the Azaris in Iran and speak to them, then you'll see the level of propaganda being spewed out.

Sorry if I seemed to insult you.


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## Ahiska

Scythian said:


> I have nothing against Mongolian to use their identity as an insult. As far as I am aware Torks are a Mongoloid group of people. There is nothing wrong with that and you should be proud of who you are. But when you go around making statements about my ancestors then don't expect a kind reply. What I tell you is not just my opinion, it's backed by Genetics and culture. I have my DNA data and I assure you, there is nothing Tork about me, same applies to my grandfather whom spoke a Torkic language, yet his DNA remained the same and has no Torkish in him.
> 
> Why do you insist on taking other people's identity? If a certain person wants to adopts a certain culture then good for him/her but that does not change their real identity and who their ancestors were.
> 
> Azaris are as much Iranian as you can get. Do not fall for the propaganda created by Pan-Torks.
> If you want to come to Iran's Azarbaijan then I'll welcome you, You can even be a guest at my house. You should come and meet the Azaris in Iran and speak to them, then you'll see the level of propaganda being spewed out.
> 
> Sorry if I seemed to insult you.


I think you confuse something Mongoloid doesnt mean to be a mongol that eans to be east asian.
Chinese Koreans and Japanese are also Mongoloid.


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## Scythian

Look, I have to go now, I have thing to do.
I'll post more info for you next time I am on.


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## vostok

Scythian said:


> All those countries your mention may have adopted Torkish language but that does not change their ethnicity, Azerbijan,tajistan are completely Iranic genetically. Torks are a branch of mongoloids.
> You torks are bunch of insecure people with identity crisis.
> 
> A culture which bases it's history on a mythical Persian story written by Ferdowsi cannot be taken seriously.
> 
> You need to stop stealing other nations cultures. Be proud of your Mongolian identity.


You know, many people in Kazakstan actually are proud of their Mongolian history - they remember history of their clans and remember, that their grand-grand-...fothers almoust conquered the world.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

ephone said:


> But I think those terrorists are getting into/Out of China through Pakistan though.



I hate to fingering anyone, only if China is good at security issue: if we didn't issue visa and keep boudary tight to any potential suspects, these terrorists will never getting into/out through Pakistan...the worst is that our intelligent don't even have a clue on how the terrorist face look alike.

we have never learn from previous lesson...and I'm pretty sure that this event will repeat again and again.

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## scherz

Ahiska said:


> Why do you hate Manchus that much they intigrated well into china and helped China become strong i wished where i live we would have had a minority who would have done such good things for us.



Manchu are backward tribes. The time they conquered China, they kind of stopped the entire mordernisation, development of china especially military wise. Which lead to the situation that conflicts with former colonial power chinese troops are often inferior equipted and some descent weapons were bought from foreign country. Through the whole chinese history the mongols are like hoodoos for China.


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## Enemy

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I hate to fingering anyone, only if China is good at security issue: if we didn't issue visa and keep boudary tight to any potential suspects, these terrorists will never getting into/out through Pakistan...the worst is that our intelligent don't even have a clue on how the terrorist face look alike.
> 
> we have never learn from previous lesson...and I'm pretty sure that this event will repeat again and again.



Well said. 

Your leaders are only concerned with how elite they look like, how powerful they appear... just show off. When I watch their body language they seem artificial as if they are aware of their image and not actions. And the Chinese police force...  Man, I just don't know why you recruit only the dumbest guys as your police officers, despite the fact they there are many intelligent guys in a populous China.

You know what this is what you can have when you have a communist system where best performers don't come up through a fair competitive system. Communist system is the cradle of nepotism and when there is nepotism, there is corruption and there is failure. You don't nurture the talents rather you kill them. Now reap what you sow.


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## Haroon Yusuf

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> *I hate to fingering anyone*, only if China is good at security issue: if we didn't issue visa and keep boudary tight to any potential suspects, these terrorists will never getting into/out through Pakistan...the worst is that our intelligent don't even have a clue on how the terrorist face look alike.
> 
> we have never learn from previous lesson...and I'm pretty sure that this event will repeat again and again.



I love doing it


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Enemy said:


> Well said.
> 
> Your leaders are only concerned with how elite they look like, how powerful they appear... just show off. When I watch their body language they seem artificial as if they are aware of their image and not actions. And the Chinese police force...  Man, I just don't know why you recruit only the dumbest guys as your police officers, despite the fact they there are many intelligent guys in a populous China.
> 
> You know what this is what you can have when you have a communist system where best performers don't come up through a fair competitive system. Communist system is the cradle of nepotism and when there is nepotism, there is corruption and there is failure. You don't nurture the talents rather you kill them. Now reap what you sow.



Robotic or artificial body language or not, they have achieve to make China what we're today, I have nothing to complain about them. As for Police officiers and intelligentces, there is no such thing as 100% safe and secure force if there is a loop hole, other will exploite...it alway been a game between intelligent and counter-intelligent.

Infact personally I just don't want to blame anyone and get over-react over this issue , others are entitle to their own opinions,


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## Snomannen

scherz said:


> Manchu are backward tribes. The time they conquered China, they kind of stopped the entire mordernisation, development of china especially military wise. Which lead to the situation that conflicts with former colonial power chinese troops are often inferior equipted and some descent weapons were bought from foreign country. Through the whole chinese history the mongols are like hoodoos for China.



Qing and Ming were both China, how could China possibly conquered China. Is &#21608; conquered &#21830; also an action of "conquering China" in your opinion. 
Every dynasties stopped developing military industry when they were in their peace period, that's totally normal. That's nothing you can blame to. Not to mention Ming dynasty even need to invite engineers from Vietnam to teach them the techology of making better firearm. Besides, it is Qing Dynasty which saved lot of ancient Chinese knowledge (&#36655;&#20314;&#23416.
The Ottoman Empire was fell apart. Mughal Empire was totally defeated by the western power. Qing still had large terriory and heavy industries (which were mostly destroyed by EOC itself). This was the best consequence.

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## Snomannen

Speaking of Kazakhstan, when Junggar was defeated by Qing Empire. Kazakh people wised to join the Empire but refused by the Emperor due to the reason of "Kazakhstan was not a 'traditional Chinese terriory' and it is to far away.


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## ChineseTiger1986

China's anti-terror activities in the Wakhan Corridor. Many terrorists were arrested and executed.

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## ChineseTiger1986

vostok said:


> You know, many people in Kazakstan actually are proud of their Mongolian history - they remember history of their clans and remember, that their grand-grand-...fothers almoust conquered the world.



Many Turkic groups in Russia such as Tatars claim that they are the offsprings of the Golden Horde, even Lenin claimed that his grandmother is a Mongol.


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## vostok

I do not know why some says about Mongols as second sort nation or cruel beasts. They were cruel - but that were cruel times. When Mongols invaded Russian lands, it was a great Russian prince - Novgorod's prince Alexander Nevskiy. Ambassadors from Rome Pope and Teutonic Crusaders come to him and said: "Renounce the Orthodox faith, take Catholics and we will help you to free your land". But he answered: "Mongols are cruel, but they do not try to get into our souls".
And after that Crusaders tried to conquer Russia and were beaten by Alexander.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Here is the documentary of cleaning up the terrorist camps.

[video]http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTA4Mzg2MTMy.html[/video]


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## Wholegrain

I call BS on this article. China is not Russia. China never blames "wahhabis/salafis" for unrest or terrorist activities. In fact, it was the Communist party which legalized wahhabism (ikhwan/yihewani and salafi/sailaifengye sects) in China unlike Russia where Russia turned Wahhabi into a dirty word.

Allvoices does not seem to be a legitimate news agency. China didn't say anyone was training ETIM members. All it said was that ETIM members traveled to Syria to join the fight in the globaltimes (an actual news agency from China).



Pksecurity said:


> China, while putting the blame on Wahabi/Salafist elements for unrest in its far-western region of Xinjiang, has linked the terrorist activities in China with Syrian opposition fighters stating that Syrian opposition forces are training Muslim extremists. The Syrian opposition fighters are believed to be elements of al Qaeda being funded and armed by Western countries and the US. They are fighting to overthrow pro-Iran Assad regime to enforce in Syria their brand of Islam which is practiced in Saudi Arabia.
> Reuters has reported that it was the first time Beijing has blamed a group in Syria and fits a common narrative of the government portraying Xinjiang's violence as coming from abroad, such as Pakistan, and not due to homegrown anger. The extremists operating in Xinjiang want to liberate the area from China to establish a new state, East Turkestan. Xinjiang, though a part of Chinese union has a semi-independent status like Hong Kong and called Special Administrative Region. This province is populated by majority ethnic Uighurs who are predominantly Muslims and seek independence for religious as well as cultural reasons.
> According to official Chinese anti-terrorism authorities, some members of the 'East Turkestan' faction have entered Syria from Turkey, participated in extremist, religious and terrorist organizations within the Syrian opposition forces and fought against the Syrian army. This is going on since 2012.
> The world is clearly divided on Syrian crisis with Iran openly backing the incumbent regime and Russia extending moral and material support. With China now blaming its internal troubles on anti-Assad rebels, it is expected that pro-Assad support base will widen. The analysts feel that the US and its allies are making huge blunder in supporting Syrian rebels who are al Qaeda elements. Once they seize power in Syria, a remote possibility, then the world will witness increased terrorist activities beyond South Asia and the Middle East.
> 
> Terrorists in Xinjiang were trained by Syrian opposition forces, blames China

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## Wholegrain

root said:


> Lol turns out it is Syria/Turkey that China has accused not Pakistan but typical indian media bullsh!t - ******* Assholes obsessed with Pakistan.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ng-were-trained-syrian-opposition-forces.html



China has not accused any country of training ETIM. It said ETIM members were going to fight in Syria, not that Syrians were training them.


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## Wholegrain

Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> I think that Chinese land is big enough for Han Chinese, so the Han should let return to freedom of Uyghurs and their independent muslim country...



Vietnam invaded Muslim Champa (nearly the entire modern south Vietnam) and slaughtered tens of thousands of Cham, and swamped the entire region with Vietnamese immigrants. Thousands of Cham fled to Cambodia and to China where they were given refuge in Hainan and are now known as Utsuls. Now Vietnamese are majority in former Champa and Cham population is less than 200,000.

I think North Vietnam is enough land for Vietnamese so Vietnam should free Champa and give the Mekong Delta back to Cambodia.

The Chagatai prince joined China for protection against the Dzunghars. that is why the Kumul Khanate lasted until 1930 in China, but no Cham voluntarily submitted to Vietnam but were invaded. Katip Suma led a Jihad from Malaysia against Vietnam in the 19th century to liberate the Cham.

The Art of Champa - Jean-François Hubert - Google Books

The Raja Praong Ritual: A Memory of the Sea in Cham- Malay Relations



> Meanwhile, lack document to record the yourneys of Malay came to Champa by sea. Execpt, the yourney of Tuen Phaow from Kelantan come to Champa by sea to lead a Jihad movement to expel theVietnamese army from the land of Champa

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## ephone

I do not think those terrorists are actually in/out of China using visas. Look at those mountainous areas between the two countries. BTW, those terrorists find some pretty good hiding spots in those tribe areas in Pakistan, just like those talibans. 



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I hate to fingering anyone, only if China is good at security issue: if we didn't issue visa and keep boudary tight to any potential suspects, these terrorists will never getting into/out through Pakistan...the worst is that our intelligent don't even have a clue on how the terrorist face look alike.
> 
> we have never learn from previous lesson...and I'm pretty sure that this event will repeat again and again.


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## Jayanta

ephone said:


> I do not think those terrorists are actually in/out of China using visas. Look at those mountainous areas between the two countries. BTW, those terrorists find some pretty good hiding spots in those tribe areas in Pakistan, just like those talibans.



Just hide out. What about training, weapons and finance?? According to you who takes care of it??


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## RazPaK

Sounds like NATO tricks.

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## ephone

The same like those Talibans. 



Jayanta said:


> Just hide out. What about training, weapons and finance?? According to you who takes care of it??


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## Jayanta

RazPaK said:


> Sounds like NATO tricks.



Oh yes NATO trick. BTW isn't Pakistan a global partner of the very same organization. So this means if NATO is plotting these things it is very likely that they are executing through their global partner.







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NATO_partnerships.svg


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## Wholegrain

sayina2012 said:


> helped China become strong?
> Great joke.
> 
> Because the administrator is not allowed to discuss this topic, I can not say much,
> I can only tell you that ,in 1644-1911, They invaded our country,we Chinese people are their slaves, by the endless slaughter, humiliation, persecution, HAN Chinese culture has been destroyed.
> 
> And now some of their(Disguised as Han,Lurking into the Communist Party) descendants still rule over us.
> 
> Now, only Japan and South Korea, retained some ancient HAN Chinese culture.
> Kimono, hanbok, retained Hanfu shadow.



The Qing dynasty was apparently so intent on "persecuting" Han Chinese culture that the Manchu language went nearly extinct under their rule as the entire Manchu population including the Imperial Family nearly all spoke Chinese. And the same reason they minted all their coins with Chinese characters even in non Han regions. The Qing also introduced Confucian education to non Han minorities like the plains aboriginals in Taiwan and spread Chinese culture to them.
 @Hu Songshan

Serial troll is back. Now flinging around patently false claims that Manchus disguised as Han are secretly running the Communist Party.

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## Ahiska

Wholegrain said:


> The Qing dynasty was apparently so intent on "persecuting" Han Chinese culture that the Manchu language went nearly extinct under their rule as the entire Manchu population including the Imperial Family nearly all spoke Chinese. And the same reason they minted all their coins with Chinese characters even in non Han regions. The Qing also introduced Confucian education to non Han minorities like the plains aboriginals in Taiwan and spread Chinese culture to them.
> 
> @Hu Songshan
> 
> Serial troll is back. Now flinging around patently false claims that Manchus disguised as Han are secretly running the Communist Party.


I thought about that too if they were opossed to Han culture why did the most of them forget their own language?

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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> This is right,
> My English is not good,
> So using machine translation error occurred.
> 
> In fact, I do not want against any person, do not want to kibitz ,
> Since the 1990s,
> Praise colonization and genocide drama angered me,
> Qing Dynasty collapsed, but NOW they did not repent.
> 
> Holocaust always wrong, inexcusable,
> No matter who it is, what excuse


The manchus were good rulers they didnt impose their own language to the chinese and respected their culture if the manchus would be so evil and prmitive they would have forced you speak their own language why only 75.000 people can speak a tungusic language?
Because most forgot their language and didnt force others to learn their language.


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## David James

*China media: Xinjiang warning*








Beijing says paramilitary soldiers are deployed in Xiniang to end violence

State media warn of Xinjiang fighters training in Syria, while Hong Kong newspapers call on the city's government to start political reform dialogue quickly to avert crisis.

Communist Party newspaper the People's Daily and the Xinjiang Daily both call for a tougher crackdown against "terrorist violence" in Xinjiang, days after 35 people were killed in clashes there.

The Global Times says people in Xinjiang and the whole of China should show no fear towards "terrorists" or the "accusations of the West" over the security crackdown in the region.

*Beijing traditionally blames attacks in Xinjiang - home to the minority Muslim Uighur population - on "terrorists". Uighurs say ethnic tensions are fuelled by Beijing's heavy-handed rule.*

Confirming details of incidents is difficult because the information flow out of Xinjiang is tightly controlled.

Syrian Ambassador to China Imad Moustapha tells the state-run Global Times that at least 30 members of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (Etim), who are deemed a Xinjiang "terrorist organisation" by Beijing, have sneaked into Syria from Turkey.

"The aim of these 'Etim' members is most likely to be fighting in the Syrian city of Aleppo. This still cannot be fully confirmed, but it is certain that these 'Etim' elements trained at the Pakistan-Afghan border, and then went to southern Turkey," Mr Moustapha says.

The English-language version of the Global Times also interviews Memeti Aili, whom the newspaper describes as a 23-year-old ethnic Uighur who was caught by police recently when retuning to Xinjiang to carry out a "violent attack" ordered by Etim.

It says Memeti Aili was approached by the East Turkistan Education and Solidarity Association, a Turkish-based exile group, while he was studying in Istanbul and asked to go to Aleppo to receiving combat training.

An anti-terrorism official also tells the Global Times that about 100 people like Memeti Aili have gone to Syria to gain experience in combat and terrorist attacks while fighting alongside Syrian rebels since last year.

*Democracy march 'censored'*

In other news, Hong Kong's annual 1 July protest march was censored by the mainland state media and even the city's handover anniversary celebrations were given low-key and cursory coverage.

A bilingual editorial in the Global Times plays down the march as having a lower turn-out than before and as a routine occurrence that merits little concern or fear from the mainland.

"From the perspective of the mainland public, Hong Kong is a paradise for tourists which provides good bargaining. Few mainland visitors are interested in Hong Kong politics, and almost nobody believes 'severe problems' will happen in Hong Kong, such as a confrontation with the central government or 'Hong Kong independence'," it adds.

However, in Hong Kong, the Beijing-backed the Ta Kung Pao accuses the 1 July march organisers of trying to bring down Chief Executive CY Leung's government, seek covert "Hong Kong independence" and to weaken China's communist rule and curb its modernisation.

"These foreign flunkey 'Hong Kong traitors' who are willing to act as henchmen for foreign anti-China and anti-Communist forces must be attacked and exposed with the sternest attitude and maximum effort," the newspaper stresses.

Commentaries in the Ta Kung Pao and the Beijing-linked the Wen Wei Po also cast doubts over the march organisers' turnout figure of 430,000 as opposed to the police's figure of 66,000.

The Wen Wei Po also insinuates that the organisers may have exaggerated the turn-out figure to secure more money from US government-funded groups. However, most Hong Kong newspapers accept the organisers' tally of 430,000 people at the march.

Editorials in the Hong Kong Economic Journal, the Hong Kong Economic Times and the South China Morning Post say CY Leung's pledge to hold consultations at an appropriate time on introducing universal suffrage in 2017 fell short of the expectations of the demonstrators.

The editorials all urge the government to start consultations as soon as possible to prevent further political turmoil.

The Ming Pao calls on all sides to take advantage of Mr Leung's pledge on consultations and for the pro-establishment camp to start dialogue with the pan-democrats on political reform.

The Oriental Daily News says the typhoon could not deter people from voicing grievances over livelihood difficulties and says incompetent governance, chaos and social rifts have reached "intolerable proportions".

The Sing Tao Daily, however, says the economy is in much better shape than during the 1 July protest march in 2003.

It believes that livelihood policies are less likely to placate the public's impatience over the slow pace of political reform this time.

"The central government should trust the wisdom of Hong Kong people and implement genuine universal suffrage, so that a chief executive with credibility and integrity can come to power," the Apple Daily concludes.

BBC News - China media: Xinjiang warning


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## Wholegrain

sayina2012 said:


> In 1911, Sun Yat-sen led the revolution ousted qing,
> Invaders fled everywhere,
> They fled to Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, and some fled to the Northeast to establish Manchukuo (Japan vassal),
> They changed the name, speak Chinese, disguised as Han, escape revolution,
> So language gradually disappear.
> ((They are in primitive society, there is no independent characters, have been using the Mongolian alphabet, can not replace the HAN characters))
> However, after 1980, they came back.
> Shooting a lot of praise colonial drama,
> They say slaughter is legal, because they are \"Chinese\" aggression \"civil war.\"
> But this angered us.
> 1644 ago, China is the world\'s most advanced and prosperous country.
> 1911, China is the world\'s most barbaric and backward country,
> This is caused by the destruction of their shameless.
> There pig tail, pig tails people think the symbol of the Chinese people, in fact, is not, it is an insult to the Chinese people colonists trick, if you do not dress up as a pig tail, will be slaughtered.
> 
> (In the Qing Dynasty, they often incite conflict between Han and Uighurs, the use of these contradictions to maintain colonial rule,
> Therefore, after the demise of the Qing Dynasty, Uyghur revenge them, but China has implemented Soviet nationality policy,did not pursue their crimes)



Liar. The majority of Manchu lost the ability to speak Manchu *during Qing rule*, not after.

The Qing Emperors also required Manchu Bannermen to address themselves as slaves (nucai) to the Emperor while Han officials could just call themselves minister (chen).

The Qing never incited conflict between Uighurs and Han. In fact the people who were causing the violence were raiders from Kokand, not Uighurs revolting, The Uighur separatist Ehmetjan Qasim was incited by the Soviet Union in his rebellion against the Republic of China, not because of revenge for (nonexistent) conflicts incited by the Qing..

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## Wholegrain

Delete, double post


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## ChineseTiger1986

TheThreePashas said:


> I'm not even gonna read all 8 pages of discussion.
> 
> If you guys kill Uyghurs than I hope napalm covers Beijing. Napalm really works well on you guys



Many Chinese Uighurs got killed by terrorists, and stop acting like an a$$hole here, messing with China won't be good for your country.

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## TheThreePashas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Many Chinese Uighurs got killed by terrorists, and stop acting like an a$$hole here, messing with China won't be good for your country.




Anyways. I have respect for China. You guys back up Pakistan and scare the **** out of India. Just don't forcefully assimilate the Uyghurs and all is well between us.


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## Snomannen

TheThreePashas said:


> You guys are too far away to do anything. Just wait until The United States of America deals with you. There may be a billion of you guys but we have enough ammunition to fix that.
> 
> 
> Anyways. I have respect for China. You guys back up Pakistan and scare the **** out of India. Just don't forcefully assimilate the Uyghurs and all is well between us.



That's never a racial issues but terrorism, get the fact straight. 
Also it is none of your business. I'm sick of you people acting like "big bro" to OUR Chinese Uyghurs. Just because you people lost most of the territory and controls from the lost of Ottoman doesn't mean that you can act like a arrogance, annoying kid spreading nonsense to the others. Sometimes I really think that you people are just envy, since China is still united, yet you have already been fell apart.

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## Wholegrain

TheThreePashas said:


> You guys are too far away to do anything. Just wait until The United States of America deals with you. There may be a billion of you guys but we have enough ammunition to fix that.
> 
> 
> Anyways. I have respect for China. You guys back up Pakistan and scare the **** out of India. Just don't forcefully assimilate the Uyghurs and all is well between us.



The majority of the police and communist officials in the Tarim basin (Uyghur homeland) are Uyghur. Your ETIM Uyghur separatists have been killing mostly other Uyghurs every time they attack a police station or pull of a bombing attempt. Uyghur is the official language in Xinjiang and there are only two trolls here iajj and ephone who talk crap about minorities in China and neither of them are on this thread. No one here has threatened to nuke or massacre anyone.

America and China both have nukes sonthere isn't going to be any war.

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## TheThreePashas

KirovAirship said:


> That's never a racial issues but terrorism, get the fact straight.
> Also it is none of your business. I'm sick of you people acting like "big bro" to OUR Chinese Uyghurs.



Our? They're not ethnically Chinese.

I don't consider Uyghurs to fall into the category of say, Azeris and Özbeks. While they are Turkic peoples too, it's a much further connection but still unacceptable.

You sound a lot like us Turks talking about Kurds. It's a "terror problem" not the "Kurdish problem". Right? Wrong. Terrorism stems from the ethnic confrontation

Edit: @Wholegrain surely there won't be a war over Uyghurs. I don't even support Turkey freezing relations with China over the issue. It's a relatively small issue (the seperatism, not terrorism) and can be solved with dialogue.


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## ChineseTiger1986

TheThreePashas said:


> You guys are too far away to do anything. Just wait until The United States of America deals with you. There may be a billion of you guys but we have enough ammunition to fix that.
> 
> 
> Anyways. I have respect for China. You guys back up Pakistan and scare the **** out of India. Just don't forcefully assimilate the Uyghurs and all is well between us.



Are you kidding me?

China is a mature nuclear player with a good number of ICBMs and nukes to ensure that no one can fck with us.

All USA can do is to conduct some military drills with China's neighbors, but would they have the gut to attack China?

Messing with China will be detrimental for Turkey, your govt is far more smarter than you to realize this fact.


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## Snomannen

TheThreePashas said:


> Our? They're not ethnically Chinese.
> 
> I don't consider Uyghurs to fall into the category of say, Azeris and Özbeks. While they are Turkic peoples too, it's a much further connection but still unacceptable.
> 
> You sound a lot like us Turks talking about Kurds. It's a "terror problem" not the "Kurdish problem". Right? Wrong. Terrorism stems from the ethnic confrontation
> 
> Edit: @Wholegrain surely there won't be a war over Uyghurs. I don't even support Turkey freezing relations with China over the issue. It's a relatively small issue (the seperatism, not terrorism) and can be solved with dialogue.



Those murders killed their own people more than the other ethnics and you still consider such action as ethnic confrontation, amazing. 

And yes they are ethnically Chinese (you don't even get the term "Chinese" right), now stop changing other people's identity and mind your own business in your country.


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## TheThreePashas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Are you kidding me?
> 
> China is a mature nuclear player with a good number of ICBMs and nukes to ensure that no one fck with us.
> 
> All USA can do is to conduct some military drills with China's neighbors, but would they have the gut to attack China?
> 
> Messing with China will be detrimental for Turkey, your govt is far more smarter than you to realize this fact.



Easy there tiger, I said _IF_ you guys start killing Uyghurs. Obviously that's not gonna happen anytime soon on a large scale. China's smarter than that.


Also. In terms of the USA? Don't doubt the USAs guts once hostilities break out. The USA and China obviously have a lot of reasons to avoid conflict but once war happens, the Chinese have lost their only deterrence besides nukes. It'll be this way until China completes its modernization of the military. Then we'll see what the balance is


I don't follow this situation too much so, lemme ask you Chinese a question. Is the issue of separatism ethnic or religious. Uyghurs may see themselves as different (I know a good amount of Uyghurs here in the USA) but I don't know which issue it is.


@KirovAirship Uyghurs don't look much like Han Chinese man. I can understand you referring to them as Chinese kind of like how in Turkey, officially Turk=Citizen of Turkey. But they're definitely not actually Han Chinese, I mean why else would they speak a wholly different language? Do you think that language was imposed on Han Chinese living in the area? From wiki : _The Uyghurs (Uyghur: &#1574;&#1735;&#1610;&#1594;&#1735;&#1585;&#8206;, ULY: Uyghur&#8239;;[6] [&#660;&#650;j&#712;&#641;&#650;&#720;]; simplified Chinese: &#32500;&#21566;&#23572;; traditional Chinese: &#32173;&#21566;&#29246;; pinyin: Wéiwú'&#283;r) are a Turkic ethnic group living in Eastern and Central Asia._


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## ChineseTiger1986

TheThreePashas said:


> Easy there tiger, I said _IF_ you guys start killing Uyghurs. Obviously that's not gonna happen anytime soon on a large scale. China's smarter than that.
> 
> 
> Also. In terms of the USA? Don't doubt the USAs guts once hostilities break out. The USA and China obviously have a lot of reasons to avoid conflict but once war happens, the Chinese have lost their only deterrence besides nukes. It'll be this way until China completes its modernization of the military. Then we'll see what the balance is
> 
> 
> I don't follow this situation too much so, lemme ask you Chinese a question. Is the issue of separatism ethnic or religious. Uyghurs may see themselves as different (I know a good amount of Uyghurs here in the USA) but I don't know which issue it is.



China won't lose any conventional war against anyone in its backyard, the US isn't strong enough to take China in its backyard.

Beside, China only kills the separatists, regardless he/she is Han or Uighur or other Chinese minorities.


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## Okemos

"Syrian Ambassador to China Imad Moustapha tells the state-run Global Times that at least 30 members of the East Turkistan Islamic Movement (Etim), who are deemed a Xinjiang "terrorist organisation" by Beijing, have sneaked into Syria from Turkey."

While the CCP government signed an agreement with Turkey to send 5000 ughurs to study in religious schools in Turkey as if we need more young kids to be radicalized in the separatist base. Sometimes I just cannot fathom the stupidity and incoherency of CCP government policies. Some of the ultra leftists are probably still dreaming about world proletarian unite! lol The government should put pressure on Turkey or on EU, because Turkey is well know the lone overt supporter of separatist movement under so called pan-Turk, which reminds me of Nazi Aryan agenda.

Where were those US government funded groups during British colonial rule? Did they also fund HK "democracy march?" 

What a dirty world!

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## Snomannen

TheThreePashas said:


> @KirovAirship Uyghurs don't look much like Han Chinese man. I can understand you referring to them as Chinese kind of like how in Turkey, officially Turk=Citizen of Turkey. But they're definitely not actually Han Chinese, I mean why else would they speak a wholly different language? Do you think that language was imposed on Han Chinese living in the area? From wiki : _The Uyghurs (Uyghur: &#1574;&#1735;&#1610;&#1594;&#1735;&#1585;&#8206;, ULY: Uyghur&#8239;;[6] [&#660;&#650;j&#712;&#641;&#650;&#720;]; simplified Chinese: &#32500;&#21566;&#23572;; traditional Chinese: &#32173;&#21566;&#29246;; pinyin: Wéiwú'&#283;r) are a Turkic ethnic group living in Eastern and Central Asia._



Oh meu deus, 'don't look much like' you say.
[Chinese] is not a term of a single race/ ethnic, but a group, an ethnics group.
Uyghur and Han are both included in the Chinese ethnics group, both ethnics are no doubt Chinese no matter what kind of languages the speak and what kind of cultures they share. Please get the concept right.


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## TheThreePashas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China won't lose any conventional war against anyone in its backyard, the US isn't strong enough to take China in its backyard.
> 
> Beside, China only kills the separatists, regardless he/she is Han or Uighur or other Chinese minorities.


That's open for interpretation. It depends on the nature of the war, I mean if it's mainly naval good luck. But yes, we saw in Korea that China's very basic (no offense) army at the time was still able to repel the UN forces all the way to the 38th, but then again, while China is stronger now, numbers and Armies matter less now. The USA has a severe advantage in the air-sea (unless unproven weapons like anti-carrier missiles and other secret weapons are really effective)


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## ChineseTiger1986

Pan-Turkism is a dangerous idea, when spreading this radical ideology, you will become the enemy of both China and Russia.



TheThreePashas said:


> That's open for interpretation. It depends on the nature of the war, I mean if it's mainly naval good luck. But yes, we saw in Korea that China's very basic (no offense) army at the time was still able to repel the UN forces all the way to the 38th, but then again, while China is stronger now, numbers and Armies matter less now. The USA has a severe advantage in the air-sea (unless unproven weapons like anti-carrier missiles and other secret weapons are really effective)



The US airbases in Asia-Pacific won't last in a few hours after getting bombed by China's second artillery troop, so much about the air superiority.

US isn't idiot to fight China in its own domain, the best chance they have is to lure our navy to fight them in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, but we aren't idiots either.

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## Snomannen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Pan-Turkism is a dangerous idea, when spreading this radical ideology, you will become the enemy of both China and Russia.



Even Malaysian Chinese share the completely same culture and language with Chinese in the PRC, the PRC still doesn't care about Malaysian Chinese since they are not citizens of the PRC. They understand the concept that the terms 'ethnic' and 'country' should be separated.

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## TheThreePashas

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Pan-Turkism is a dangerous idea, when spreading this radical ideology, you will become the enemy of both China and Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> The US airbases in Asia-Pacific won't last in a few hours after getting bombed by China's second artillery troop, so much air superiority.
> 
> US isn't idiot to fight China into its own domain, the best chance they have is to lure our navy to fight them in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, but we aren't idiots either.



Pan-Turkism can be handled in a way that won't **** the Bear and Tiger off though. Think about it for a second, how difficult it would be to "annex" all the way to China? Nah. The most we can hope to achieve is South and North Azerbaijan, plus a EU style thing with other Turkic countries, which i don't think China and Russia would be too mad about.


USA shouldn't be under-estimated though. USA has missiles and knows where your bases are too.



KirovAirship said:


> Even Malaysian Chinese share the completely same culture and language with Chinese in the PRC, the PRC still doesn't care about Malaysian Chinese since they are not citizens of the PRC. They understand the concept that the terms ethnic and country should be separated.



Okay. The whole Chinese in other country argument I can understand, but it's not the same thing. Ethnicity and nationality are different. You can't absorb and ethnicity because it's part of your country. If it's different, it's different.


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## Yeti

These Hans have destroyed the local culture of the region they say they have made investments but the money is for Han areas not the locals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvVFFGen200&list=PLB1A8642115D306BB&index=7


People should watch this to see what these Hans are doing in Tibet and Xinjiang province and what the locals think of them

The full part is 1hr but it shows the divide between these Hans the the Locals how segregated things are.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

TheThreePashas said:


> You guys are too far away to do anything. Just wait until The United States of America deals with you. There may be a billion of you guys but we have enough ammunition to fix that.
> 
> 
> Anyways. I have respect for China. You guys back up Pakistan and scare the **** out of India. Just *don't forcefully assimilate the Uyghurs and all is well between us*.



Look who's talking? Now an anatolian came to rescue Uyghurs, you should more worry to figure out who had forcefully assimilated your ancestor and your anatolian folks when "they" raided and conquer Anatolia...and you know who I mean by "they". When you couldn't defend yourself from been assimilated and you want to defend Uyughur's cause?. We traited Uyghur better than how you traite kurtish people...and least we have not traine and openly support them against Turkey yet.

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## ChineseTiger1986

TheThreePashas said:


> Pan-Turkism can be handled in a way that won't **** the Bear and Tiger off though. Think about it for a second, how difficult it would be to "annex" all the way to China? Nah. The most we can hope to achieve is South and North Azerbaijan, plus a EU style thing with other Turkic countries, which i don't think China and Russia would be too mad about.
> 
> 
> USA shouldn't be under-estimated though. USA has missiles and knows where your bases are too.



anti-pan-turkism &#8800; anti-turkic, you should understand the difference.

We never underestimate the US military power, but we aren't pushover either.

Do you think keep messing with China would fare well?

China in its conventional power as just as lethal as in its nuclear power.

China can shoot down all US satellites from LEO to GEO altitude. China is far more powerful in military than you can imagine.

China Conducts Test of New Anti-Satellite Missile | Washington Free Beacon


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## Yeti

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> We're improving their living standard much better than you Indians living in sh1t hole & slum.





Not according to the the locals whos lives you claim to be improving they still live in slums the money goes into Han areas only they hate you Hans they said so live on camera






These Hans have taken over lands which does not belong to them from Tibet to Xinjiang

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## Yeti

The area is rich in minerals and oil these Hans will rob the local land till there is nothing left that is the nature of the Han







Watch this to see what the locals say about these hans

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## Wholegrain

Yeti said:


> What does this thread have to do with India? post reported for going off-topic



Your post has nothing to do with the topic either. Such as what does your video have to do with Uyghurs being the majority in the Tarim basin and not being native to Dzungharia?

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## Yeti

Wholegrain said:


> Your post has nothing to do with the topic either. Such as what does your video have to do with Uyghurs being the majority in the Tarim basin and not being native to Dzungharia?





The Truth about Uyghur demographics and *Han immigration in Xinjiang*

Watch the videos I posted to find out


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## Wholegrain

Yeti said:


> The Truth about Uyghur demographics and *Han immigration in Xinjiang*
> 
> Watch the videos I posted to find out



You haven't read **** on this thead. I explained in the original post about where most Han immigration is going.

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## Yeti

Wholegrain said:


> You haven't read **** on this thead. I explained in the original post about where most Han immigration is going.




The locals do not want Hans moving into their area and causing trouble you outnumber them in their own area and treat them like **** not my words but the locals hard to digest they hate you?

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## Yeti

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Uighur resentment at Beijing's rule

Under the rule of the Communist Party, there has been considerable economic development, but life has been made more difficult for the Uighurs over the past 20-30 years by the migration of many young and technically-qualified Han Chinese from the eastern provinces. 

*These new migrants are far more proficient in the Chinese language than all but a few Uighurs, and tend to be appointed to the best jobs. 

Not surprisingly, this has created deep-seated resentment among the Uighurs, who view the migration of Han into Xinjiang as a plot by the government to dilute them, undermine their culture and prevent any serious resistance to Beijing's control. *


Only the hans have benefited from the influx of money not the locals hence the resentment


now you hans will bring up India lol because you know you hans are hated

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## Sasquatch

Wholegrain said:


> The Qing dynasty was apparently so intent on "persecuting" Han Chinese culture that the Manchu language went nearly extinct under their rule as the entire Manchu population including the Imperial Family nearly all spoke Chinese. And the same reason they minted all their coins with Chinese characters even in non Han regions. The Qing also introduced Confucian education to non Han minorities like the plains aboriginals in Taiwan and spread Chinese culture to them.
> 
> @Hu Songshan
> 
> Serial troll is back. Now flinging around patently false claims that Manchus disguised as Han are secretly running the Communist Party.



Taken care of it as well as other trolling.


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## Yeti

Hans being targets of attacks is understandable when you see how their culture and way of life has been destroyed over the years I can fully understand why they are so disliked and why riots happen.


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## Sasquatch

Wholegrain said:


> The Qing dynasty was apparently so intent on "persecuting" Han Chinese culture that the Manchu language went nearly extinct under their rule as the entire Manchu population including the Imperial Family nearly all spoke Chinese. And the same reason they minted all their coins with Chinese characters even in non Han regions. The Qing also introduced Confucian education to non Han minorities like the plains aboriginals in Taiwan and spread Chinese culture to them.
> 
> @Hu Songshan
> 
> Serial troll is back. Now flinging around patently false claims that Manchus disguised as Han are secretly running the Communist Party.



Taken care of it as well as other trolling.





Yeti said:


> The locals do not want Hans moving into their area and causing trouble you outnumber them in their own area and treat them like **** not my words but the locals hard to digest they hate you?



You should actually try to read what he stated then just seeing it from a one sided view.

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## Yeti

Hu Songshan said:


> Taken care of it as well as other trolling.



I hope your taking care of these off-topic comments on India too and not supporting your fellow Chinese?



Hu Songshan said:


> Taken care of it as well as other trolling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You should actually try to read what he stated then just seeing it from a one sided view.





Did you even bother to watch any of the Videos I posted they show what the locals think of hans or they all lying?


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## Wholegrain

Yeti said:


> The locals do not want Hans moving into their area and causing trouble you outnumber them in their own area and treat them like **** not my words but the locals hard to digest they hate you?





Yeti said:


> BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Uighur resentment at Beijing's rule
> 
> Under the rule of the Communist Party, there has been considerable economic development, but life has been made more difficult for the Uighurs over the past 20-30 years by the migration of many young and technically-qualified Han Chinese from the eastern provinces.
> 
> *These new migrants are far more proficient in the Chinese language than all but a few Uighurs, and tend to be appointed to the best jobs.
> 
> Not surprisingly, this has created deep-seated resentment among the Uighurs, who view the migration of Han into Xinjiang as a plot by the government to dilute them, undermine their culture and prevent any serious resistance to Beijing's control. *
> 
> 
> Only the hans have benefited from the influx of money not the locals hence the resentment
> 
> 
> now you hans will bring up India lol because you know you hans are hated



Troll, the area in Xinjiang where Han are moving is not "their (Uyghur) area". The majority of Han live in Dzungharia and the Uyghurs who live in Dzungharia were resettled there from southern Xinjiang by China. China moved the Uyghurs into Dungharia after the Dzunghars were killed off. 

In short, the Uyghurs cannot complain about Han moving into Dzungharia (northern Xinjiang) because they would have to get out too and make room for the Dzunghars again.

Your article also fails to mention that the (Second) East Turkestan Republic in the 1940s was a Soviet backed puppet state ruled by a Soviet Communist party member Ehmetjan Qasim.

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## Sasquatch

Yeti said:


> I hope your taking care of these off-topic comments on India too and not supporting your fellow Chinese?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you even bother to watch any of the Videos I posted they show what the locals think of hans or they all lying?




Yes the comments of being take care of neutral on that.

Seen it already the issues tend to stem somewhat from the Uyghur not integrating, less educated, and terror attacks also increase resentment.


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## Yeti

I rather believe what the locals say than a Han thats for sure and now I understand why Hans are subject of attacks, keep living in denial it does not bother me in the least.


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## Yeti

Hu Songshan said:


> Yes the comments of being take care of neutral on that.
> 
> Seen it already the issues tend to stem somewhat from the Uyghur not *integrating, less educated and terror attacks also increase resentment.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Missed out all the main points the Uyghurs claim the hans have done to them so your just giving a one-sided view again
> 
> I can see this going nowhere not one of you will admit han migration and your govt policies add fuel to the fire, instead you put the blame on the locals and give a one-sided account. When the locals speak of the ill treatment they have been given you say it's a lie or western media fabrication!
> 
> There is no point debating with a herd of sheep Ill go now

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## Wholegrain

Yeti said:


> I rather believe what the locals say than a Han thats for sure and now I understand why Hans are subject of attacks, keep living in denial it does not bother me in the least.



We really don't give a damn of what Indians or other people think of us.

Keep trolling mate. Blacks in America are not locals, they originally came from Africa but they may have some legitimate grievances. However, nobody goes around falsely calling them locals and saying whites are invaders on their land in order to magnify their problems or struggles.

I have explained already to everyone else who actually reads the original post and hasn't come here for single purpose trolling, in the area of Xinjiang where Han are moving both Han and Uyghurs are immigrants and both were moved into that region by China. Xinjiang was not a single territorial unit until CHINA put Dzungharia and the Tarim Basin together.

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## Sasquatch

Yeti said:


> Hu Songshan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the comments of being take care of neutral on that.
> 
> Seen it already the issues tend to stem somewhat from the Uyghur not *integrating, less educated and terror attacks also increase resentment.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Missed out all the main points the Uyghurs claim the hans have done to them so your just giving a one-sided view again
> 
> I can see this going nowhere not one of you will admit han migration and your govt policies add fuel to the fire, instead you put the blame on the locals and give a one-sided account. When the locals speak of the ill treatment they have been given you say it's a lie or western media fabrication!
> 
> There is no point debating with a herd of sheep Ill go now
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hu Songshan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes the comments of being take care of neutral on that.
> 
> Seen it already the issues tend to stem somewhat from the Uyghur not *integrating, less educated and terror attacks also increase resentment.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> 
> Missed out all the main points the Uyghurs claim the hans have done to them so your just giving a one-sided view again
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What points would those be ? Discrimination ? Culture eroding ? Lack economic opportunities? Lack of support ? Han population moving to Xinjiang ? All have been addressed.
> 
> The area's where Han are living were never Uyghurs to begin with, the Uyghur area's are traditionally in the south. Not to mention the Governments gives them many benefits while on the other hand the Han do not get these. The Uyghur language is taught in their schools, culture is protected, exemption from the one child policy, the government also gives funds to mosques and other institutions for them.
> 
> Of course there are grievances they have as everyone else, but they are addressed more than other groups in China. Now you should reread what he posted then looking through a one sided view you point out before you call others sheep. Purpose of this was to address a misconception.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

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## Fsjal

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> China's anti-terror activities in the Wakhan Corridor. Many terrorists were arrested and executed.



I remember seeing a video of this. Said to be rare in China to see such things in video.

It was pretty cool, like some special US operation in Iraq.

Anyway, in the vid, who was the enemy?

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## Lux de Veritas

Yeti said:


> These Hans have destroyed the local culture of the region they say they have made investments but the money is for Han areas not the locals.
> 
> Uyghur Noruz Lamb - YouTube
> 
> 
> People should watch this to see what these Hans are doing in Tibet and Xinjiang province and what the locals think of them
> 
> The full part is 1hr but it shows the divide between these Hans the the Locals how segregated things are.



Pan Turkism will destroy more of Turkic culture. We know that Ataturk was the Young Turk gang. Young Turk are the follower of Pan Turkism. Under Pan Turkism, Arabic alphatbet, Hijab, which are part of Turkey culture was destroyed. The Turkish language was purged off the Arabic loan words. Turks are forced to westernize putting on western clothing.

In comparison, China Uighur are still using Arabic alphabet. (Nevertheless "destroying" Uighur culture of Arabic alphabet and replace it with Latin is a better idea in my opinion) 

What about Iranian Azerbaijan which is 100% same race as Turkish Oghuz? Azerbaijani self destroy their own culture by adopting Persian and identifying with Persian. Iranian Azerbaijan even sided with Christian Armenian against Azerbaijan and Turkey. All Iranian elites are Azerbaijan, but they implement policy favorable to propagation of Persian.


----------



## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

sayina2012 said:


> I'm Han,han is china,Do you understand?
> 
> &#20320;&#20204;&#28385;&#20154;,&#25110;&#32773;&#20320;&#20204;&#36825;&#20123;&#27721;&#20843;&#26071;&#30340;&#21253;&#34915;&#22900;&#25165;&#19981;&#29245;,&#21487;&#20197;&#23398;&#32500;&#20154;,&#37327;&#20320;&#20204;&#27809;&#37027;&#20010;&#29399;&#32966;&#12290;


&#20570;&#20102;&#20960;&#30334;&#24180;&#30340;&#22900;&#25165;&#20102;&#65292;&#36824;&#35273;&#24471;&#24456;&#29245;&#65292;&#21253;&#34915;&#22900;&#65292;&#34728;&#34411;


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## Lux de Veritas

Yeti said:


> BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Uighur resentment at Beijing's rule
> 
> Under the rule of the Communist Party, there has been considerable economic development, but life has been made more difficult for the Uighurs over the past 20-30 years by the migration of many young and technically-qualified Han Chinese from the eastern provinces.
> 
> *These new migrants are far more proficient in the Chinese language than all but a few Uighurs, and tend to be appointed to the best jobs.
> 
> Not surprisingly, this has created deep-seated resentment among the Uighurs, who view the migration of Han into Xinjiang as a plot by the government to dilute them, undermine their culture and prevent any serious resistance to Beijing's control. *
> 
> 
> Only the hans have benefited from the influx of money not the locals hence the resentment
> 
> 
> now you hans will bring up India lol because you know you hans are hated








China has not flooded Uighurland with migrants. China has flooded Pearl river delta, Yangtze delta, Beijing metropolitans with as high as 50 million migrants each. China could have easily flooded Uighurland, but she has refrained. 

The Han Chinese in Xinjiang are concentrated in the North, the Dzungaria. There is Kazakh there and there is no coflict between Han and Kazakh. Because of Han Chinese, Northern Xinjiang prosper like nobody.

China has taken care of Uighur and restrict Han Chinese immigration too much. China is too good to the Uighur that it become harmful. As there are no Han Chinese Uighur land cannot develop. And they remain the poorer part of Xinjiang.

The best way to take Uighur our of poverty is to flood Uighurland with millions of Han Chinese. But again, a lot of people outside China would like to stir discord and talk lies against China.

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## basharfark

I am friendly to uyghurs but not friendly to terrorists

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Lux de Veritas said:


> China has not flooded Uighurland with migrants. China has flooded Pearl river delta, Yangtze delta, Beijing metropolitans with as high as 50 million migrants each. China could have easily flooded Uighurland, but she has refrained.
> 
> The Han Chinese in Xinjiang are concentrated in the North, the Dzungaria. There is Kazakh there and there is no coflict between Han and Kazakh. Because of Han Chinese, Northern Xinjiang prosper like nobody.
> 
> China has taken care of Uighur and restrict Han Chinese immigration too much. China is too good to the Uighur that it become harmful. As there are no Han Chinese Uighur land cannot develop. And they remain the poorer part of Xinjiang.
> 
> The best way to take Uighur our of poverty is to flood Uighurland with millions of Han Chinese. But again, a lot of people outside China would like to stir discord and talk lies against China.



it's chinese land, China can do whatever it wants to it. Just like white people in the US can move to any place they like.



basharfark said:


> I am friendly to uyghurs but not friendly to terrorists



where there is one religion, there is killing and terrorists, this is a global problem.


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## Lux de Veritas

There are Chinese nationals fighting in Syrian civil war. Look at the joker below. He even condemn PRC government. If such incidence is not properly handed, these extremist can become a powder keg for China.


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## basharfark

This dog is traitor to the motherland. Chinese government should not allow these jihad fighters to return to China. (To the dog in the video above) Stay in Syria and once your *** is kicked there, stay in Afghanistan with your beloved Taliban since you are more loyal to the Muhajideen then to China. As much as I abhor Assad's stance to Israel, I really hate the terrorists (FSA: Free Satan Army) fighting against the Secular government and calling for jihad against Israel. Assad is the lesser of two evils.

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## Yeti

Hu Songshan said:


> Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> What points would those be ? Discrimination ? Culture eroding ? Lack economic opportunities? Lack of support ? Han population moving to Xinjiang ? All have been addressed.
> 
> The area's where Han are living were never Uyghurs to begin with, the Uyghur area's are traditionally in the south. Not to mention the Governments gives them many benefits while on the other hand the Han do not get these. The Uyghur language is taught in their schools, culture is protected, exemption from the one child policy, the government also gives funds to mosques and other institutions for them.
> 
> Of course there are grievances they have as everyone else, *but they are addressed more than other groups in China*. Now you should reread what he posted then looking through a one sided view you point out before you call others sheep. Purpose of this was to address a misconception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is a matter of debate it really depends on who you speak to. For many the issues still remain at large for one example on the bbc video I posted one of the local Uyghur men said only people over 40 were allowed to grow beards etc but that is a small example the more serious issues are the ones you mentioned above.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## Yeti

Lux de Veritas said:


> Yeti said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hu Songshan said:
> 
> 
> 
> In Turkey, all woman all not allowed to wear Hijab in Ataturk days. By the way, I do not think what this man said is true. There is a lot of Uighur putting on beard. Just google it.
> 
> Also talking about racism, Indian is no 1 in universe. The Dalits are treated worst than animals.
> 
> *Indians are scum of human race. There is even hereditary prostitute and hereditary shitt collection for designated race. High caste Indians are human biggest shitt.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> post reported do not ever talk to me I do not answer kids
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


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## basharfark

Please guys be careful of your language


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## 帅的一匹

Turkey shall not support those terrorists, they fcuking not knowing what they are doing.


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## Wholegrain

FlowerSummer said:


> they didnt forced us speak their own language, but they force us to adopt their hairstyle and clothing style.
> those who do not wish to change their hairstyle and clothing style are all executed, so is this still seems to be "respected our culture" in ur opinion?
> 
> for me this is outright cultural genocide, even as brutal as the mongols, they did not perform genocide just becoz the others having different hairstyle and clothing style.


 @Hu Songshan

People are continuing to post off topic about Manchus. In fact this account showed out of thin air and this is his second post besides his introduction.


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## sayina2012

Yeti said:


> Hans being targets of attacks is understandable when you see how their culture and way of life has been destroyed over the years I can fully understand why they are so disliked and why riots happen.



Han is a peace-loving nation, 
Our hard-working good, not to invade someone else. 

Our situation is not better than the Uighurs, 
You can see, 
When I promotion of traditional culture (hanfu), announced HANFU disappear truth, a lot of ID (CHINA, TAIWAN) will angrily. 

They are afraid that we know the past history, 
In fact, there is no need, 
We just restored our culture, 
Not to revenge them, 
Because we have a great future, they can only remember the past without effort. 


In my hometown of Wuhan, there are many hard-working Uighur, 
They Miles from, hard work in order to live. 
I sympathize with the Uygur, 
Allah, Buddha, God bless the good people. 

But more importantly, self-reliance. 
We carry out the Chinese version of "Non-violent non-cooperation movement", 
More and more young people to wear "HANFU", 
Development of our national culture. 

Welcome to India and Pakistan's friends came to Wuhan to travel, to participate in our HANFU activities, to understand Chinese culture, we will use HANFU restore China's glory!

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## Enemy

Lux de Veritas said:


> The best way to take Uighur our of poverty is to flood Uighurland with millions of Han Chinese. But again, a lot of people outside China would like to stir discord and talk lies against China.



Why don't Han boys marry Uyghur girls? 

I think their girls are prettier than other girls in China. 

Matrimonial alliance is the only way to defuse tension.


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## sayina2012

Wholegrain said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> People are continuing to post off topic about Manchus. In fact this account showed out of thin air and this is his second post besides his introduction.



Big Laugh,


Impostor? We do not need.
We will go beyond your masters U.S.A,
Reproduce the brilliant OF HAN TANG.. 


Taiwanese , Who cares
Without you, the Earth Still goes on.


Big Laugh Again

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## sayina2012

Enemy said:


> Why don't Han boys marry Uyghur girls?
> 
> I think their girls are prettier than other girls in China.
> 
> Matrimonial alliance is the only way to defuse tension.



Hard-working honest people most beautiful,
This is our traditional concept of Han.

Uighur and we did not get Xinjiang oil ,
Because oil has been stolen,
Uighur away from home to work,
We HAN people use the fruits of labor in exchange for high-priced gasoline.

You say ugly girl, not that we Han Chinese, but those thieves.

Who is the thief?
If I say it, they would angrily and E-mail to administrator.

^ __ ^

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## Ahiska

Lux de Veritas said:


> Pan Turkism will destroy more of Turkic culture. We know that Ataturk was the Young Turk gang. Young Turk are the follower of Pan Turkism. Under Pan Turkism, Arabic alphatbet, Hijab, which are part of Turkey culture was destroyed. The Turkish language was purged off the Arabic loan words. Turks are forced to westernize putting on western clothing.
> 
> In comparison, China Uighur are still using Arabic alphabet. (Nevertheless "destroying" Uighur culture of Arabic alphabet and replace it with Latin is a better idea in my opinion)
> 
> What about Iranian Azerbaijan which is 100% same race as Turkish Oghuz? Azerbaijani self destroy their own culture by adopting Persian and identifying with Persian. Iranian Azerbaijan even sided with Christian Armenian against Azerbaijan and Turkey. All Iranian elites are Azerbaijan, but they implement policy favorable to propagation of Persian.



Hijab and arabic scriptes wre never part of Turkic or Turkish culture we had our own alphabet and our own religion before the arabs impose their arabian culture on us go to Turkey and tell them Hijab is part of their culture a tip from me they will laugh at you.
Oh and the Latin alphabet is much better for Turkish then the arabic.
And about Iranian Azeris you know everywhere exist traitors but most of the Iranian Azeris love Azerbaijan and Turkey.
Oh and before someone say something useless im Sunni Muslim.

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## sayina2012

TO Ahiska :


Science and technology, economy, culture, art, philosophy, language,
Human civilization from the labor,
Labor is the first virtue in Han Chinese traditional culture,
We can catch up with the United States, thanks to the hard work of Han Nationality.

Plunder, looks beautiful.
Something for nothing, how easy ah.

But this is the downfall,
Does not produce a nation will be eliminated by history.

Even the United States, it can not violate the law,
Financial speculation, is not practical work, they will pay the price,

Language disappears, Blame Who?,is greedy consideration!


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## FlowerSummer

Wholegrain said:


> People are continuing to post off topic about Manchus. In fact this account showed out of thin air and this is his second post besides his introduction.




cheers mate and get a life, I just saw a poor guy interested in chinese history but his questions never get reply, so just post out a fact i know and voice out my opinion

oh since u r the op and appears to be good in chinese history, y dont u verify whether the following statement is true or not



KirovAirship said:


> In the Ming Dynasty, the Ming government even sold out ancestors of Manchu's homeland to Korean. They even united Korean to bully them and robbed their resources

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## FlowerSummer

sayina2012 said:


> TO Ahiska :
> 
> 
> Science and technology, economy, culture, art, philosophy, language,
> Human civilization from the labor,
> Labor is the first virtue in Han Chinese traditional culture,
> We can catch up with the United States, thanks to the hard work of Han Nationality.
> 
> Plunder, looks beautiful.
> Something for nothing, how easy ah.
> 
> But this is the downfall,
> Does not produce a nation will be eliminated by history.
> 
> Even the United States, it can not violate the law,
> Financial speculation, is not practical work, they will pay the price,
> 
> Language disappears, Blame Who?,is greedy consideration!



Mate I think you should stop using those translation sofware, the language structure is very weird...
Although me myself isnt in the position to lecture people regarding english

Dont even think you can convince these guys with words, afterall if words really that great to change people then this world already is utopia without these so call ideology war aka communism vs capitalism that ignited so much conflicts and bring so much destruction. Prove yourself with actions, not words, thats all I can say


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## Wholegrain

@ChineseTiger1986 @Hu Songshan

Just as I thought, sayina2012 is a member of the hanminzu forum. These people aren't getting the memo and instead of opening their own thread they continue to hijack this one.



FlowerSummer said:


> cheers mate and get a life, I just saw a poor guy interested in chinese history but his questions never get reply, so just post out a fact i know and voice out my opinion
> 
> oh since u r the op and appears to be good in chinese history, y dont u verify whether the following statement is true or not





KirovAirship said:


> In the Ming Dynasty, the Ming government even sold out ancestors of Manchu's homeland to Korean. They even united Korean to bully them and robbed their resources.



If KirovAirship is posting bullshit thats not my problem. The mod warned you people to stay on topic.



Hu Songshan said:


> If you want to rant about Manchus this is the wrong thread so if you have noting on topic with this leave, take note of the prior warning I gave you.


----------



## vostok

FlowerSummer said:


> Mate I think you should stop using those translation sofware, the language structure is very weird...
> Although me myself isnt in the position to lecture people regarding english
> 
> Dont even think you can convince these guys with words, afterall if words really that great to change people then this world already is utopia without these so call ideology war aka communism vs capitalism that ignited so much conflicts and bring so much destruction. Prove yourself with actions, not words, thats all I can say



Now we do not have communist block, only capitalist NATO. Do they stop wars? No. Now we have much more wars and conflicts. As for uigurs - I think China should give them autonomy - that is not big deal.


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## FlowerSummer

vostok said:


> Now we do not have communist block, only capitalist NATO. Do they stop wars? No. Now we have much more wars and conflicts. As for uigurs - I think China should give them autonomy - that is not big deal.



Sorry mate my reply to you was deleted and it wasnt off topic too, wonder why hmm...
Anyway communist bloc is dead, but my country and some few other nations out there are "socialist" countries you know, so its not over yet mate


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## vostok

FlowerSummer said:


> Sorry mate my reply to you was deleted and it wasnt off topic too, wonder why hmm...
> Anyway communist bloc is dead, but my country and some few other nations out there are "socialist" countries you know, so its not over yet mate



You don't undestand me. I am not against socialism and communism. And I am surely want multipolar world.


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## FlowerSummer

vostok said:


> You don't undestand me. I am not against socialism and communism. And I am surely want multipolar world.



You misunderstand me too, I was simply saying capitalist NATO are not the only one around here, we these "socialist" countries here too, even though its just the name alone is socialist


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## vostok

FlowerSummer said:


> You misunderstand me too, I was simply saying capitalist NATO are not the only one around here, we these "socialist" countries here too, even though its just the name alone is socialist


They are just single countries, not agressive block of "world imperialists masters". Do you know why Middles East, Africa are always in war? Because Anglosaxonians and French made colony borders in such way to provoke conflicts. And why conflicts with Uigurs or Chechens starts? Cause some one do sponsor them - Anglosaxonians. No finance - no terrorism.

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## ephone

Find those uighur terrorist bastards, burn them, feed them to dogs or do whatever to send them to "heaven with their virgins"


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## Wholegrain

ephone said:


> Find those uighur terrorist bastards, burn them, feed them to dogs or do whatever to send them to "heaven with their virgins"



Hey keyboard warrior, you and iajj don't speak for the rest of us. Now get your delusions of granduer out of your tiny head. You are your stupidty is reflecting very badly on the rest of us.

The Qing dynasty ruled southern Xinjiang through the intermediary of religious conservatives begs and mullahs. The mullahs enforced Islamic law, veils and dress. In exchange for complete control over the religious life of the Turkic Muslims (ancestors of Uyghurs) the mullahs, clerics and begs gave complete political loyalty to the Qing Emperor. You do not know crap about the history of the region.

The Qing was brutal to REBELS and INVADERS, they didn't target anyone for being "radical" religious or spare people for being moderate. You made up the crap about crushing "radical" Muslims. The Qing just brutally crushed ANY rebels against the state while they rewarded people loyal to the state.

If a so called "moderate" muslim (which just means Lax muslim) rebelled or invaded the Qing they would get crushed. But the deeply religious and conservative Islamic clergy (mullahs) were allowed religious freedom and to thrive during Qing rule.

The Qing's policy with different Hui sects had also nothing to do with being religious or not religious. Fanatically religious Muslims who were ordinary Sunnis or belonged to the Khufiyya Sufi sect, but who were loyal to the Qing were allowed religious freedom. However Jahriyya Sufism ("new teaching" in chinese) was banned and brutally crushed. Because the teaching of Jahriyya Sufis were different, in their sect they preached total loyalty to their leader and even viewed him as nearly infallible and almost as a prophet (which actually severely deviates from orthodox Islam).

Many fanatically religious Hui Generals like Ma Anliang fought for the Qing against rebels and separatists. The campaign to crush the Kokand invaders in Xinjiang was spearheaded by the religious Muslims Hua Decai and Cui Wei who were fighting for the Qing.

The rebellions in 1862 and 1895 were crushed by religious and very un-moderate Hui officers and soldiers who fought for the Qing. In fact, the religious Hui officers massacred the most rebels in the most brutal ways, not Han soldiers or officers.

The Hui officers who fought against the Eight Nation Alliance in the Boxer Rebellion were religious Muslims. 

The Hui warlords like Ma Bufang were deeply religious. He sent fanatical soldiers (both religious Muslims and radical Qinghai Tibetan buddhists) to crush the Japanese and then sent more soldiers to crush the Soviet backed Uyghurs under Ehmetjan Qasim and fight the Soviets and Mongolian army.

The CPC has wisely allowed deeply religious Hui clerics to reestablish their followings in Ningxia in exchange for complete loyalty to the state. One Hui cleric even heard from Bin Laden and listned to other radical clerics but the CPC did nothing because he was a member of the Ningxia People's Congress and loyal to the government of China.

Faith flourishes in an arid wasteland | South China Morning Post

Religious Muslims like Ding Guodong and Mi Layin fought for the Ming cause and there were no Hui rebellions during the Ming. You made that crap up.

In fact the Uyghur separatism was started by REFORMERS (Jadidists) who wanted to challenge the traditional Islam and the conservative Islamic clergy.

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## 帅的一匹

Most Han Chinese hold very negative view towards Uihgers, cause lots of them are thief and drug dealer in the city. The goverment should invest more in the education sectors, at least teach Uighers how to speak and write Mandrain especially those living in rural areas. At the same time, their own local language should be well reserved as well.


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## 帅的一匹

If you don't know how to speak Mandrain, how you supposed to make your ends meet in the country?


----------



## NiceGuy

beijingwalker said:


> it's not the poverty itself drives people going nuts,it's the huge gap bw the rich and poor.when China was dirty poor China was very stable,but why it isn't now...you have those corrupt officials throwing away millions on women and luxury items everyday and you have millions scrape the bottom the barrel supporting their families.we've got many random attack across China now,not only in Xinjiang.


Right, unfair treament and corruption will lead the country to uprising like in EgyptSyria . 

Im scared that civil war in China will start before war between VN-China happen again bcz Chinese people cant stand anymore with corruption and unfair trament in China now


----------



## FlowerSummer

vostok said:


> They are just single countries, not agressive block of "world imperialists masters". Do you know why Middles East, Africa are always in war? Because Anglosaxonians and French made colony borders in such way to provoke conflicts. And why conflicts with Uigurs or Chechens starts? Cause some one do sponsor them - Anglosaxonians. No finance - no terrorism.



So Bush finance Osama to blow up WTC? Wow I didnt know that, you may be a bigger leaker than Snowden, hope you take care yourself mate.


----------



## vostok

FlowerSummer said:


> So Bush finance Osama to blow up WTC? Wow I didnt know that, you may be a bigger leaker than Snowden, hope you take care yourself mate.



Did i say that? You said that. Have you ever heard about Soviet war in Afganistan? May be you do not know - but Osama was great friend of America and U.K. in that time. He was a hero - Western newspapers wrote that he is very brave man, true fighter for freedom, well-known muslim expert and very enlightened person. Anglosaxonian teach him and other mojaheddins to fight and gave them weapon. May be you do not know?


----------



## Ahiska

Navigator said:


> I wish good luck to the Chinese police and armed police in the fight against this scum. We in Russia for many years struggling with terrorists in the Caucasus, and we know, that they should ruthlessly be eliminated, it's the only guarantee of peace and order in the region.



Yeah Terrorists in the caucasus after you almost genocide the circissans and the checens everyone in the caucasus hates russia some show it with terrorist attacks and other show it with other things.


----------



## FlowerSummer

vostok said:


> Did i say that? You said that. Have you ever heard about Soviet war in Afganistan? May be you do not know - but Osama was great friend of America and U.K. in that time. He was a hero - Western newspapers wrote that he is very brave man, true fighter for freedom, well-known muslim expert and very enlightened person. Anglosaxonian teach him and other mojaheddins to fight and gave them weapon. May be you do not know?



I do know, kinda like PRC and vietnam in the good old days. But financing terrorist to blow up your enemy doesnt equal to financing terrorist to blow up your own country. Just like one government financing their military to blow up their enemy doesnt equal to financing their military to blow up their own country. Your revelations make me picturing these --

Bush: come on osama, blow up New York for me, you name the price
Osama: how bout xxx billion usd, but you pay for the equipment and accomodation, deal?
Bush: deal


----------



## vostok

FlowerSummer said:


> I do know, kinda like PRC and vietnam in the good old days. But financing terrorist to blow up your enemy doesnt equal to financing terrorist to blow up your own country. Just like one government financing their military to blow up their enemy doesnt equal to financing their military to blow up their own country. Your revelations make me picturing these --
> 
> Bush: come on osama, blow up New York for me, you name the price
> Osama: how bout xxx billion usd, but you pay for the equipment and accomodation, deal?
> Bush: deal



Okey. So you think it is normal to sponsor terrorists aroun the world killing ordinary people? Everywhere exept USA? Typical western point of view.


----------



## ephone

Did I talk to you???

Why idiot like you always quote what I wrote???

What I have said is nothing delusional. That was exactly what General Wang Zhen had done in Xinjiang. That is exactly what our brave armed police have done in Xinjiang. 



Wholegrain said:


> Hey keyboard warrior, you and iajj don't speak for the rest of us. Now get your delusions of granduer out of your tiny head. You are your stupidty is reflecting very badly on the rest of us.
> 
> The Qing dynasty ruled southern Xinjiang through the intermediary of religious conservatives begs and mullahs. The mullahs enforced Islamic law, veils and dress. In exchange for complete control over the religious life of the Turkic Muslims (ancestors of Uyghurs) the mullahs, clerics and begs gave complete political loyalty to the Qing Emperor. You do not know crap about the history of the region.
> 
> The Qing was brutal to REBELS and INVADERS, they didn't target anyone for being "radical" religious or spare people for being moderate. You made up the crap about crushing "radical" Muslims. The Qing just brutally crushed ANY rebels against the state while they rewarded people loyal to the state.
> 
> If a so called "moderate" muslim (which just means Lax muslim) rebelled or invaded the Qing they would get crushed. But the deeply religious and conservative Islamic clergy (mullahs) were allowed religious freedom and to thrive during Qing rule.
> 
> The Qing's policy with different Hui sects had also nothing to do with being religious or not religious. Fanatically religious Muslims who were ordinary Sunnis or belonged to the Khufiyya Sufi sect, but who were loyal to the Qing were allowed religious freedom. However Jahriyya Sufism ("new teaching" in chinese) was banned and brutally crushed. Because the teaching of Jahriyya Sufis were different, in their sect they preached total loyalty to their leader and even viewed him as nearly infallible and almost as a prophet (which actually severely deviates from orthodox Islam).
> 
> Many fanatically religious Hui Generals like Ma Anliang fought for the Qing against rebels and separatists. The campaign to crush the Kokand invaders in Xinjiang was spearheaded by the religious Muslims Hua Decai and Cui Wei who were fighting for the Qing.
> 
> The rebellions in 1862 and 1895 were crushed by religious and very un-moderate Hui officers and soldiers who fought for the Qing. In fact, the religious Hui officers massacred the most rebels in the most brutal ways, not Han soldiers or officers.
> 
> The Hui officers who fought against the Eight Nation Alliance in the Boxer Rebellion were religious Muslims.
> 
> The Hui warlords like Ma Bufang were deeply religious. He sent fanatical soldiers (both religious Muslims and radical Qinghai Tibetan buddhists) to crush the Japanese and then sent more soldiers to crush the Soviet backed Uyghurs under Ehmetjan Qasim and fight the Soviets and Mongolian army.
> 
> The CPC has wisely allowed deeply religious Hui clerics to reestablish their followings in Ningxia in exchange for complete loyalty to the state. One Hui cleric even heard from Bin Laden and listned to other radical clerics but the CPC did nothing because he was a member of the Ningxia People's Congress and loyal to the government of China.
> 
> Faith flourishes in an arid wasteland | South China Morning Post
> 
> Religious Muslims like Ding Guodong and Mi Layin fought for the Ming cause and there were no Hui rebellions during the Ming. You made that crap up.
> 
> In fact the Uyghur separatism was started by REFORMERS (Jadidists) who wanted to challenge the traditional Islam and the conservative Islamic clergy.


----------



## Yabgu

ephone said:


> Find those uighur terrorist bastards, burn them, feed them to dogs or do whatever to send them to "heaven with their virgins"



Racist mentality , was you this aggressive against Japanese also. No wonder they did what they had to...


----------



## Wholegrain

Yabgu said:


> Racist mentality , was you this aggressive against Japanese also. No wonder they did what they had to...



Turkic Muslim Salars in the Chinese army serving under General Ma Biao along with Dongxiang (Mongol Muslims), Hui Muslims, and Qinghai Tibetans slaughtered the Japanese in battle. Ma Biao serving under General Ma Bufang.

??????--?-?-??

In "The Marching Wind" by Leonard Francis Clark, Clark writes about a mountainering expedition in Qinghai and meets Salar soldiers and officers who served under Ma Bufang and killed Japanese.



ephone said:


> Did I talk to you???
> 
> Why idiot like you always quote what I wrote???
> 
> What I have said is nothing delusional. That was exactly what General Wang Zhen had done in Xinjiang. That is exactly what our brave armed police have done in Xinjiang.



Except you keep shooting your mouth off about killing religious people and claiming religious people always cause separatism. The Qing never had a policy against religious people and it in fact used religious conservative clerics to enforce its rule in Xinjiang.

What General Wang Zhen did was merciful compared to what religious Hui Muslims did in 1934 against Uyghur separatists. One foreigner named Sven Hedin saw the Hui soldiers (he called them tungan) praying facing Mecca, and a Uyghur (Turki) man told Hedin how cruel the Hui were being acting almost as "beasts". One of the Hui Generals put the separatist leader Abdullah Bughra's head up on the Idgah mosque and initiated a mass slaughter in Kashgar. Bughra's brother Nur Ahmad Jan had his head used as a football after it was cut off. They were also brutal in crushing a revolt in Charqlik.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Yabgu

Wholegrain said:


> Turkic Muslim Salars in the Chinese army serving under General Ma Biao along with Dongxiang (Mongol Muslims), Hui Muslims, and Qinghai Tibetans slaughtered the Japanese in battle. Ma Biao serving under General Ma Bufang.
> 
> 
> In "The Marching Wind" by Leonard Francis Clark, Clark writes about a mountainering expedition in Qinghai and meets Salar soldiers and officers who served under Ma Bufang and killed Japanese.
> 
> 
> 
> Except you keep shooting your mouth off about killing religious people and claiming religious people always cause separatism. The Qing never had a policy against religious people and it in fact used religious conservative clerics to enforce its rule in Xinjiang.
> 
> What General Wang Zhen did was merciful compared to what religious Hui Muslims did in 1934 against Uyghur separatists. One foreigner named Sven Hedin saw the Hui soldiers (he called them tungan) praying facing Mecca, and a Uyghur (Turki) man told Hedin how cruel the Hui were being acting almost as "beasts". One of the Hui Generals put the separatist leader Abdullah Bughra's head up on the Idgah mosque and initiated a mass slaughter in Kashgar. Bughra's brother Nur Ahmad Jan had his head used as a football after it was cut off. They were also brutal in crushing a revolt in Charqlik.



I have nothing against Chinese however some here are racist and rude. I think the Chinese should treat the Turkic Uyghur population better or we should invite all. Uyghurs into Türkiye.


----------



## Wholegrain

Yabgu said:


> I have nothing against Chinese however some here are racist and rude. I think the Chinese should treat the Turkic Uyghur population better or we should invite all. Uyghurs into Türkiye.



And then you are going to dump all Kurds and PKK into China right?


----------



## Yabgu

Wholegrain said:


> And then you are going to dump all Kurds and PKK into China right?



If we dump them there they will turn China into Congo in a few years, your growth will go from 9% to shrinking economy


----------



## ephone

Before you idiot follow my remarks again, you had better differentiate what I wrote from what you have imagined.

I do not advocate killing religious people but those islam fundamentalist religious fanatics/extremists. 

You cannot tell the difference???

I have written many times that China welcome moderate muslims. As for other craps you have put there, I really have no time for those off-topic craps.

So stop following my comments.



Wholegrain said:


> Turkic Muslim Salars in the Chinese army serving under General Ma Biao along with Dongxiang (Mongol Muslims), Hui Muslims, and Qinghai Tibetans slaughtered the Japanese in battle. Ma Biao serving under General Ma Bufang.
> 
> ??????--?-?-??
> 
> In "The Marching Wind" by Leonard Francis Clark, Clark writes about a mountainering expedition in Qinghai and meets Salar soldiers and officers who served under Ma Bufang and killed Japanese.
> 
> 
> 
> Except you keep shooting your mouth off about killing religious people and claiming religious people always cause separatism. The Qing never had a policy against religious people and it in fact used religious conservative clerics to enforce its rule in Xinjiang.
> 
> What General Wang Zhen did was merciful compared to what religious Hui Muslims did in 1934 against Uyghur separatists. One foreigner named Sven Hedin saw the Hui soldiers (he called them tungan) praying facing Mecca, and a Uyghur (Turki) man told Hedin how cruel the Hui were being acting almost as "beasts". One of the Hui Generals put the separatist leader Abdullah Bughra's head up on the Idgah mosque and initiated a mass slaughter in Kashgar. Bughra's brother Nur Ahmad Jan had his head used as a football after it was cut off. They were also brutal in crushing a revolt in Charqlik.



SOB like you do not understand the difference between normal people and terrorists. 

We have peace of mind dealing with normal people. We would feed those terrorists to dogs if we can. They are not human but bastards.


----------



## ChinaToday

NiceGuy said:


> Right, unfair treament and corruption will lead the country to uprising like in EgyptSyria .
> 
> Im scared that civil war in China will start before war between VN-China happen again bcz Chinese people cant stand anymore with corruption and unfair trament in China now



stupid Vietcong don't bring small potatoes nobody think much of Vietnam into every thread thank you very much


----------



## Wholegrain

No, you are lying again. When you say moderate you mean non religious Muslims who don't pray. I've seen the crap you've written.

When separatist, Soviet supported Communist Uyghurs under Ehmetjan Qasim massacred thousands of Han people in Dzungharia with Soviet Red Army and White Russian supoort, it was the fanatically religious Hui and Salar Muslims who were sent by Ma Bufang and the KMT to crush their advance in Xinjiang. The officers Ma Chengxiang, Ma Xizhen, were Hui and Han Youwen was Salar. They used brutal tactics against the Communist Uyghur separatists and Russians including torture and mass executions and stopped the Soviet communist supported Second East Turkestan Republic from taking over Xinjiang.

These were the same KMT Hui you were insulting in your other posts. And after the CPC took over Xinjiang, it let these Communist Uyghur war criminals (from the Second East Turkestan Republic) get free and even incorporated their Ili National Army into the PLA. They were allowed to integrate into society and no charges were pressed against them.

Now tell me again, aren't these Communist Uyghurs, "moderate" muslims?  their god was Joseph Stalin and their master was the Soviet Communist party.

You have no idea of "fundamentalist" and "extremist". The Qing government did NOT discriminate between fundamentalist and moderate. What they did was discrimante between SECT. They banned this heretical sect called Jahriyya Sufism which believed that their leader was infallible and almost like a prophet but they allowed all other Muslims religious freedom. Religious fanatics who did not belong to that sect were not killed.

In the 1895 rebellion, the most cruel officers and soldiers were the Muslims who fought on the government side aginst the rebel Muslims from minority Sufi sects, they abolutely slaughtered and hammered the rebels. Those Muslims on the government side were not "moderate" or lax in their religious observance. They were fully devout and prayed and followed all of their religious teachings strictly.

I've also seen your post on Jews. Both you and iajj are wrong. Iajj is obsessed with a sickness with hating Jews (and everyone who isn't chinese) and you have a sickness of viewing all Jews as some sort of infallible or upright people. You claim no Jew ever did anything negative to China. The Iraqi Jew David Sassoon and his family traded in tons of Opium into China in the 19th century. There goes your bullshit down the drain. I don't judge people by a few individuals and I don't hate all Jews because of Sassoon but knocking down your bullshit was satisfying.

Also regarding Jews in China. Jews and Muslims were both called Hui. The jews were called blue hatted hui and Muslims were called White hatted Hui. Both their religions were called qingzhen jiao and their mosques and synagogues were called qingzhen si or libai si. They both used seven day week calenders. The Ming dynasty passed edicts allowed both religions to be practiced in China while they banned white lotus Buddhism. Most Chinese could not differentiate much between them.

You are correct there was no anti semitism in China. There was no anti muslimism or anti white people or anti Arabism either. There was only xenophobia. There was no hatred of specific race or religion in general, but hatred of foreign things.

When xenophobia broke out in China, ALL foreign religions and peoples were attacked. No one was singled out for hatred. In 878, when the anti Tang dynasty rebel Huang Chao sacked the city of Guangzhou, he slaughtered over 120,000 foreign merchants, who were Muslims, Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians. They were Arabs, Jews, Persians, and other peoples. Buddhism was also attacked during this time in the Tang dynasty as well and Buddhist relicts were melted down, smashed, monasteries confisticated and monks forced to return to secular life. Only Chinese religion was spared. But only Buddhism, Christianity, Manichaesm and Zoroastrianism were actually named when foreign relgions were banned in the late Tang dynasty because of their crazy proselytizing, Islam and Judaism weren't named because they didn't convert much Chinese people at the time.



ephone said:


> Before you idiot follow my remarks again, you had better differentiate what I wrote from what you have imagined.
> 
> I do not advocate killing religious people but those islam fundamentalist religious fanatics/extremists.
> 
> You cannot tell the difference???
> 
> I have written many times that China welcome moderate muslims. As for other craps you have put there, I really have no time for those off-topic craps.
> 
> So stop following my comments.
> 
> 
> 
> SOB like you do not understand the difference between normal people and terrorists.
> 
> We have peace of mind dealing with normal people. We would feed those terrorists to dogs if we can. They are not human but bastards.


----------



## FlowerSummer

vostok said:


> Okey. So you think it is normal to sponsor terrorists aroun the world killing ordinary people? Everywhere exept USA? Typical western point of view.



So a non typical western point of view is sponsor terrorists around the world blowing up their own country?
Anyway even you admit that a typical westerner would not sponsor terrorists to blow up their own turf, take me quite an effort to bait this answer from you. Last time I check, Bush is a typical westerner, and thousand of american die because of terrorisim. So who sponsor Osama to have his goons perform kamikaze above the sky of Bush own turf? My guess is some western hater similiar to you who happens to have some money to spare for terrorism 

Well for me, declaring ALL terrorist are sponsored by anglosaxons is just as absurd as declaring ALL terrorist are driven by Islam ideology, unless you agree to both these "declaration"


----------



## vostok

FlowerSummer said:


> So a non typical western point of view is sponsor terrorists around the world blowing up their own country?
> Anyway even you admit that a typical westerner would not sponsor terrorists to blow up their own turf, take me quite an effort to bait this answer from you. Last time I check, Bush is a typical westerner, and thousand of american die because of terrorisim. So who sponsor Osama to have his goons perform kamikaze above the sky of Bush own turf? My guess is some western hater similiar to you who happens to have some money to spare for terrorism
> 
> Well for me, declaring ALL terrorist are sponsored by anglosaxons is just as absurd as declaring ALL terrorist are driven by Islam ideology, unless you agree to both these "declaration"


Ambassador of USA in Libya was killed last year. Killed by terrorists, grown and teached by USA and few years ago that terrorists were "heroes and fighters fo freedom and democracy".
Of corse, not only Anglosaxonians sponsor terrorism around the world. Part of work doing their colonies - Saudi Arabia, Qatar and others. But the most dangerous organizations sucj as Al-Qaeda were made by USA.
Why do you mention twin Towers in every post? I do not care who blown them up - american terrorism organization under american order or without american ordere. Only in Iraq more people dies from terrorism every month.


----------



## ephone

You see, idiot like you just do not know when to quit.

Where did I say: "moderate mean: non religious Muslims who don't pray"??? Just show me the reference???

Your mind must be twisted hitting by thunder or simply just is dumb due to hard birth. 

I cannot deal with stupid people.




Wholegrain said:


> No, you are lying again. When you say moderate you mean non religious Muslims who don't pray. I've seen the crap you've written.
> 
> When separatist, Soviet supported Communist Uyghurs under Ehmetjan Qasim massacred thousands of Han people in Dzungharia with Soviet Red Army and White Russian supoort, it was the fanatically religious Hui and Salar Muslims who were sent by Ma Bufang and the KMT to crush their advance in Xinjiang. The officers Ma Chengxiang, Ma Xizhen, were Hui and Han Youwen was Salar. They used brutal tactics against the Communist Uyghur separatists and Russians including torture and mass executions and stopped the Soviet communist supported Second East Turkestan Republic from taking over Xinjiang.
> 
> These were the same KMT Hui you were insulting in your other posts. And after the CPC took over Xinjiang, it let these Communist Uyghur war criminals (from the Second East Turkestan Republic) get free and even incorporated their Ili National Army into the PLA. They were allowed to integrate into society and no charges were pressed against them.
> 
> Now tell me again, aren't these Communist Uyghurs, "moderate" muslims?  their god was Joseph Stalin and their master was the Soviet Communist party.
> 
> You have no idea of "fundamentalist" and "extremist". The Qing government did NOT discriminate between fundamentalist and moderate. What they did was discrimante between SECT. They banned this heretical sect called Jahriyya Sufism which believed that their leader was infallible and almost like a prophet but they allowed all other Muslims religious freedom. Religious fanatics who did not belong to that sect were not killed.
> 
> In the 1895 rebellion, the most cruel officers and soldiers were the Muslims who fought on the government side aginst the rebel Muslims from minority Sufi sects, they abolutely slaughtered and hammered the rebels. Those Muslims on the government side were not "moderate" or lax in their religious observance. They were fully devout and prayed and followed all of their religious teachings strictly.
> 
> I've also seen your post on Jews. Both you and iajj are wrong. Iajj is obsessed with a sickness with hating Jews (and everyone who isn't chinese) and you have a sickness of viewing all Jews as some sort of infallible or upright people. You claim no Jew ever did anything negative to China. The Iraqi Jew David Sassoon and his family traded in tons of Opium into China in the 19th century. There goes your bullshit down the drain. I don't judge people by a few individuals and I don't hate all Jews because of Sassoon but knocking down your bullshit was satisfying.
> 
> Also regarding Jews in China. Jews and Muslims were both called Hui. The jews were called blue hatted hui and Muslims were called White hatted Hui. Both their religions were called qingzhen jiao and their mosques and synagogues were called qingzhen si or libai si. They both used seven day week calenders. The Ming dynasty passed edicts allowed both religions to be practiced in China while they banned white lotus Buddhism. Most Chinese could not differentiate much between them.
> 
> You are correct there was no anti semitism in China. There was no anti muslimism or anti white people or anti Arabism either. There was only xenophobia. There was no hatred of specific race or religion in general, but hatred of foreign things.
> 
> When xenophobia broke out in China, ALL foreign religions and peoples were attacked. No one was singled out for hatred. In 878, when the anti Tang dynasty rebel Huang Chao sacked the city of Guangzhou, he slaughtered over 120,000 foreign merchants, who were Muslims, Jews, Christians and Zoroastrians. They were Arabs, Jews, Persians, and other peoples. Buddhism was also attacked during this time in the Tang dynasty as well and Buddhist relicts were melted down, smashed, monasteries confisticated and monks forced to return to secular life. Only Chinese religion was spared. But only Buddhism, Christianity, Manichaesm and Zoroastrianism were actually named when foreign relgions were banned in the late Tang dynasty because of their crazy proselytizing, Islam and Judaism weren't named because they didn't convert much Chinese people at the time.


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## Zero_wing

Good luck to the freedom fighters in Xinjiang


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## Wholegrain

Zero_wing said:


> Good luck to the freedom fighters in Xinjiang



Good luck to Moro freedom fighters in Mindanao.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Snomannen

Yabgu said:


> If we dump them there they will turn China into Congo in a few years, your growth will go from 9% to shrinking economy



Why don't you ask you people to rebuild the holy glorious Ottoman instead of spreading this kind of nonsense.

(Oh my goodness, my 1000th post)


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## Yabgu

KirovAirship said:


> Why don't you ask you people to rebuild the holy glorious Ottoman instead of spreading this kind of nonsense.
> 
> (Oh my goodness, my 1000th post)



What you talking about? Did you even understand what I said?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Most Uighurs are on our side, we need to get rid of those terrorists.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## sur

cnleio said:


> Who executed the terrorist attack in China? Who killed innocents in China ?
> Find them out, kill bastard all.





ChineseTiger1986 said:


> USA does not believe the Islam, but they believe the terrorism!





cnleio said:


> I don't know, u tell me. And u need to find out whether any Arab country fund Uygur riots in China?
> Anyway i have share the pic in my former post.





Wholegrain said:


> No Arab country funds "riots" in China.



Who funds *terrorism ALL around the world*...!!! 
*Al-Dajjal = The Zionist-controlled-America & her pet dogs*, who else...


Funding is just a small fraction of all the activities they are indulged in. They actively plan attacks, supply explosives/devices or training to make them, employ handlers & intermediaries. They come up with indirect ways to avoid detection of course. One would be fool to take a puppet as actual perpetrator without looking who's behind the scene. They even make their agents *fake a conversion to islam* & then commit criminal act disguised as a convert-muslim... Like *Adam Gadahn* is one example of many... Also a CIA agent arrested in Pakistan who faked conversion to islam & married a Pakistani lady then opened a security agency & was hiring ex-Army personnel & using them for terrorist attacks on military installations...

@ephone & cnleio ,,, ur agencies & government ppl know it's America-&-Co but such things are not said publicly for whatever reasons... 


Watch links here to get an idea...

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...muslim-bias-mainstream-media.html#post4343738

-
-
-

*Look what CIA's Graham Fuller said about sponsoring terrorism in China using name of Islam...* & how he sponsored criminals in Turkey.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlFhBrMaMsc

.
.
.


*Also hear it from horse's mouth... CIA\FBI themselves carrying out terror attacks inside US & elsewhere...*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ2VpfUqRoo

*youtube.com/watch?v=RRaezLTU2a0*



vostok said:


> You forget about Great Britain. Alternative "democratic" "government" of every state and every nation of the Earth can be easily proclaimed in London in a moment. They doing such sneaky things for few centuries.


 Correct they are involved too. Actually when I write "US*-&-Co*" or "US*-&-her-pet-dogs*" i mean governments & agencies of countries like UK india etc... "Zionist-slave" is what I call US government-&-agencies...

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## vostok

sur said:


> Who funds *terrorism ALL around the world*...!!!
> *Al-Dajjal = The Zionist-controlled-America & her pet dogs*, who else...


You forget about Great Britain. Alternative "democratic" "government" of every state and every nation of the Earth can be easily proclaimed in London in a moment. They doing such sneaky things for few centuries.


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## INDIC

@sur What are Uyghur terrorists doing in North Waziristan.

Chinese rebels operating camps in Waziristan - thenews.com.pk


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## Wholegrain

INDIC said:


> @sur What are Uyghur terrorists doing in North Waziristan.
> 
> Chinese rebels operating camps in Waziristan - thenews.com.pk



They are allied to TTP (Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan), who are fighting against the Pakistani army.


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## Zero_wing

Wholegrain said:


> Good luck to Moro freedom fighters in Mindanao.



And yet we are signing a peace deal with that in your face chekwa


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## Fsjal

Why is there a Filipino low life troll in this thread. Zero_wing, go away!

This is a Chinese domestic problem.


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## ephone

U.S. has its share of doing so and Arab countries have their shares as well.



sur said:


> Who funds *terrorism ALL around the world*...!!!
> *Al-Dajjal = The Zionist-controlled-America & her pet dogs*, who else...
> 
> 
> Funding is just a small fraction of all the activities they are indulged in. They actively plan attacks, supply explosives/devices or training to make them, employ handlers & intermediaries. They come up with indirect ways to avoid detection of course. One would be fool to take a puppet as actual perpetrator without looking who's behind the scene. They even make their agents *fake a conversion to islam* & then commit criminal act disguised as a convert-muslim... Like *Adam Gadahn* is one example of many... Also a CIA agent arrested in Pakistan who faked conversion to islam & married a Pakistani lady then opened a security agency & was hiring ex-Army personnel & using them for terrorist attacks on military installations...
> 
> @ephone & cnleio ,,, ur agencies & government ppl know it's America-&-Co but such things are not said publicly for whatever reasons...
> 
> 
> Watch links here to get an idea...
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...muslim-bias-mainstream-media.html#post4343738
> 
> -
> -
> -
> 
> *Look what CIA's Graham Fuller said about sponsoring terrorism in China using name of Islam...* & how he sponsored criminals in Turkey.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlFhBrMaMsc
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> 
> *Also hear it from horse's mouth... CIA\FBI themselves carrying out terror attacks inside US & elsewhere...*
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ2VpfUqRoo
> 
> *youtube.com/watch?v=RRaezLTU2a0*
> 
> Correct they are involved too. Actually when I write "US*-&-Co*" or "US*-&-her-pet-dogs*" i mean governments & agencies of countries like UK india etc... "Zionist-slave" is what I call US government-&-agencies...


----------



## Wholegrain

Zero_wing said:


> And yet we are signing a peace deal with that in your face chekwa



Not with Abu Sayyaf. 

14 killed in military, Abu Sayyaf clash in Sulu | Inquirer News

And you are forgetting these people

NPA Rebels Ambush 100 Unarmed Jogging Policemen, Hostages Taken - PILIPINAS. News. Today.


----------



## INDIC

Wholegrain said:


> They are allied to TTP (Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan), who are fighting against the Pakistani army.



Not just TTP, every type of terrorist group like Haqqani network operates from North Waziristan.


----------



## Wholegrain

ephone said:


> You see, idiot like you just do not know when to quit.
> 
> Where did I say: "moderate mean: non religious Muslims who don't pray"??? Just show me the reference???
> 
> Your mind must be twisted hitting by thunder or simply just is dumb due to hard birth.
> 
> I cannot deal with stupid people.



No, you are a rotten liar. You first bullshitted and lied that there were Muslim rebellions during the Ming dynasty. Then you started pulling more **** out of your *** and lied again, claiming that the Qing dynasty suppressed and butchered "fundamentalist" "radical" Muslims.

I got news for you dumbass, the definition of fundamentalist just means someone who follows all the rules of their religious scriptures. It doesn't mean anything more than that. It doesn't mean terrorist.

The Qing dynasty used mullahs to rule Xinjiang. They enforced sharia on the Muslim population, including the veil. All of the Muslim Generals who served in the Qing army were strict fundamentalists. They prayed five times a day. They followed all teachings of their religion. 

When the Xinjiang was under the warlord Yang Zengxin's control, he knew how to deal with the population. He enforced the strictest and oldest version of Islam in Xinjiang. He warned them that the Soviet Russians were godless and would mislead them. Yang had experience working with Muslims who were serving in the Qing army during the 1895 rebellion. He enforced rule by mullahs, Islamic education, and cut off the province from modern reformist influences. 

The Uyghur separatist Jadidists were in fact modernists who wanted to reform Islam, challenge the traditional Mullahs and introduce modern ideas. Yang cracked down hard on the modernists, arrested them and enforced traditional hardcore Islam on the population to prevent separatism. The Hui Muslim Daotai Ma Shaowu killed PRO SOVIET Uyghur separatists after they rioted.

All of the Hui, Salar, and Dongxiang Generals in the Ming, Qing, and Republic of China army were hardcore, fundamentalist religious Muslims. They believed in whatever sect they practiced by it Khufiyya Sufism or just Sunni. Those KMT Hui funded the building of mosques and religious schools. And they cracked down hard on Uyghur separatists. They used torture and brutal methods against the Soviet backed Communist Uyghur separatists led by Ehmetjan Qasim.

The Qing did not kill people for being fundamentalist or religious. They killed people of ALL religions for being rebels and separatists. They banned just the Jahriyya Sufi sect while ordinary Sunnis and Khufiyya Sufis were allowed to practice their religion. The Jahriyya believed in absolute loyalty to their sect leader who was viewed as infallible and like a prophet. The others did not believe in that nonsense.

Some of the biggest Qing Generals fighting during the Xinhai Revolution were Hui like Ma Anliang and Ma Qi. The Hui Bai Chongxi was on the revolutionaries side.

By the way dumbass, polygamy used to be practiced by everyone in China.


----------



## Snomannen

Yabgu said:


> What you talking about? Did you even understand what I said?



Care your own business and stop annoying your neighbors.


----------



## mahabharath

Wholegrain said:


> They are allied to TTP (Tehreek e Taliban Pakistan), who are fighting against the Pakistani army.



Did you know Pakistan had an arrangement with TTP to implement Sharia in FATA areas?
Do you know Imran Khan wants to negotiate with TTP to find permanent solution to terrorist problems in Pakistan?

These Islamic terrorists are no friends to none. They have some level of soft corner towards you not because they believe your religion is right...it is only because they need you, ..but once they are done with their targets..next target would be YOU..no matter what, whether you believe it or not...atheists, communists, dharmic religion people are the foremost enemies for these Islamists...in the end, they will believe in Allah..not in your dharmic religion...


----------



## ChengDao

Ahiska said:


> What is the problem with pan-turkism i dont want to kill anyone and i also hate no one.
> But pan-turkism is for me the unity of turkic people when the uyguhrs want to be with china i dont have a problem with that but please dont demonise it.
> 
> I read about the manchu and i also read that they did great things for china.
> Are they general liked in china or is someone like sayina the majority i hope not....



Of course they are liked in China. Many leaders have been Manchu and there are celebrities, CEOs, politicians, chefs, musicians, writers and all levels of society's spectrum who are also Manchu ethnicity. My friend if you would like I can even give you some famous examples and you can look these Chinese up. The Manchus are just another ethnicity of the Chinese nation so how can the average Chinese (no matter what ethnicity) hate a part that makes up the whole? It is only the western haters of communism and China's rise that makes it seem like it is ethnicity vs ethnicity in China. Just because the tiny countries in Europe have been based on ethnicity for hundreds of years does not mean that large countries like China, India, and Russia cannot have multiple ethnicities as citizens...


----------



## Ahiska

ChengDao said:


> Of course they are liked in China. Many leaders have been Manchu and there are celebrities, CEOs, politicians, chefs, musicians, writers and all levels of society's spectrum who are also Manchu ethnicity. My friend if you would like I can even give you some famous examples and you can look these Chinese up. The Manchus are just another ethnicity of the Chinese nation so how can the average Chinese (no matter what ethnicity) hate a part that makes up the whole? It is only the western haters of communism and China's rise that makes it seem like it is ethnicity vs ethnicity in China. Just because the tiny countries in Europe have been based on ethnicity for hundreds of years does not mean that large countries like China, India, and Russia cannot have multiple ethnicities as citizens...



I dont really think you can compare russia and china because russia is known to almost genocide tiny caucasian nations.
But china is quite different.


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## sayina2012

ChengDao said:


> Of course they are liked in China.



Hong Kong people Like that? 
Who does not know, Hong Kong Film vilify them into zombies.

Ancestors left us living space&#65292;shanghai,tianjin,shandong,wuchang&#65288;My hometown, also expelled QING revolutionary sites&#65289; Many Rent,And HONGKONG Taiwan, Macau, the Diaoyu Islands, Ha Salin Islands, have been Hateful ceded, it is our China ming territory&#65292;&#12290;
Brutal rule civilization,Is a tragedy.

Until today, we still pay for their actions,
We work hard for economic development,
Compensate for the gap and the West.
Chinese people want to revive the glory of HAN TANG,
Shameful QING been cast aside,
In foreign forum,
Actually it was to defend them.


----------



## sayina2012

Ahiska said:


> I dont really think you can compare russia and china because russia is known to almost genocide tiny caucasian nations.
> But china is quite different.



&#65288;v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzc3NjkxNzU2.html&#65289;
Your television broadcast some programs,
About Uighur piracy Kazakh songs.

A new song out,
Will soon be copied,
AND change the author's name,
Kazakh singer was very angry, but can not do anything

Uyghur doing business in Hubei,
Often carry Player
While playing the song while working,
Does this mean that good songs,
Are Kazakh song?


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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> Your television broadcast some programs,
> About Uighur piracy Kazakh songs.
> 
> A new song out,
> Will soon be copied,
> AND change the author's name,
> Kazakh singer was very angry, but can not do anything
> 
> Uyghur doing business in Hubei,
> Often carry Player
> While playing the song while working,
> Does this mean that good songs,
> Are Kazakh song?


Not really they are khazak songs who are sung in the uyghur language they dont really copy it because the kazakh and uyghur language are not the same everyone would have known if it were a kazakh song.


----------



## sayina2012

Ahiska said:


> Not really they are khazak songs who are sung in the uyghur language they dont really copy it because the kazakh and uyghur language are not the same everyone would have known if it were a kazakh song.



(v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzc3NjkxNzU2.html)
They played a few songs,
As evidence,
I have one heard on the street &#65288;Uighur version&#65289;.

The Soviet Union, now Russia's pop music is also very westernized,
The Westernization of the songs are fast,
Central Asia has maintained a traditional song,
I sometimes upload Kazakhstan (Uighur Version) song to the community to share.

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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> (v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMzc3NjkxNzU2.html)
> They played a few songs,
> As evidence,
> I have one heard on the street &#65288;Uighur version&#65289;.
> 
> The Soviet Union, now Russia's pop music is also very westernized,
> The Westernization of the songs are fast,
> Central Asia has maintained a traditional song,
> I sometimes upload Kazakhstan (Uighur Version) song to the community to share.



Interesting and i like traditional music


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## ephone

Can you dumbass stop follow my comments???

I do not need a barking dog following me.

As for fundamentalist muslims, now it refers a.k.a. to those islam extremists and terrorists. 

If you prefer purely literature meaning, maybe you should look for the meaning of "comrade" today and its meaning of yesterday, and that transformation may help you to understand time does change.

Just fxxk off.




Wholegrain said:


> No, you are a rotten liar. You first bullshitted and lied that there were Muslim rebellions during the Ming dynasty. Then you started pulling more **** out of your *** and lied again, claiming that the Qing dynasty suppressed and butchered "fundamentalist" "radical" Muslims.
> 
> I got news for you dumbass, the definition of fundamentalist just means someone who follows all the rules of their religious scriptures. It doesn't mean anything more than that. It doesn't mean terrorist.
> 
> The Qing dynasty used mullahs to rule Xinjiang. They enforced sharia on the Muslim population, including the veil. All of the Muslim Generals who served in the Qing army were strict fundamentalists. They prayed five times a day. They followed all teachings of their religion.
> 
> When the Xinjiang was under the warlord Yang Zengxin's control, he knew how to deal with the population. He enforced the strictest and oldest version of Islam in Xinjiang. He warned them that the Soviet Russians were godless and would mislead them. Yang had experience working with Muslims who were serving in the Qing army during the 1895 rebellion. He enforced rule by mullahs, Islamic education, and cut off the province from modern reformist influences.
> 
> The Uyghur separatist Jadidists were in fact modernists who wanted to reform Islam, challenge the traditional Mullahs and introduce modern ideas. Yang cracked down hard on the modernists, arrested them and enforced traditional hardcore Islam on the population to prevent separatism. The Hui Muslim Daotai Ma Shaowu killed PRO SOVIET Uyghur separatists after they rioted.
> 
> All of the Hui, Salar, and Dongxiang Generals in the Ming, Qing, and Republic of China army were hardcore, fundamentalist religious Muslims. They believed in whatever sect they practiced by it Khufiyya Sufism or just Sunni. Those KMT Hui funded the building of mosques and religious schools. And they cracked down hard on Uyghur separatists. They used torture and brutal methods against the Soviet backed Communist Uyghur separatists led by Ehmetjan Qasim.
> 
> The Qing did not kill people for being fundamentalist or religious. They killed people of ALL religions for being rebels and separatists. They banned just the Jahriyya Sufi sect while ordinary Sunnis and Khufiyya Sufis were allowed to practice their religion. The Jahriyya believed in absolute loyalty to their sect leader who was viewed as infallible and like a prophet. The others did not believe in that nonsense.
> 
> Some of the biggest Qing Generals fighting during the Xinhai Revolution were Hui like Ma Anliang and Ma Qi. The Hui Bai Chongxi was on the revolutionaries side.
> 
> By the way dumbass, polygamy used to be practiced by everyone in China.


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## Zero_wing

Wholegrain said:


> All of your laughing will not get rid of Abu Sayyaf.
> 
> Policeman killed by suspected Abu Sayyaf members



What? oh please tell me then how your so filled with b.s chekwa


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## Wholegrain

Zero_wing said:


> What? oh please tell me then how your so filled with b.s chekwa



You call us chekwa, but remember, the name "Filipino" is itself an insult. It means you are still slaves to the Spanish. 
 @ephone you butt into threads about Islam or Muslims which have nothing to do with China, you then start insulting and spreading lies and now you tell me to **** off when I expose your lies? And another thing is your keyboard warrior complex, in which you constantly threaten violence behind the safety of your computer.


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## Lure

cnleio said:


> And don't forget the Religious Support from Saudi Arabia and Turkey, The World Uyghur Youth Union also has organizations in Turkey.
> 
> Oneday China will make them pay back, im sure !



Turkey is not an Islamist country. It's just US wants to export the so called "moderate Islam" ideology to the ME which is created in Turkey. Actually if Turkey had no secular roots there wouldn't be any moderate Islam in here. Turkey wouldn't be any different than the ME. And it's the second time an Islamist party is elected (There was a military intervention against the first one) in Turkey. People vote for AKP because they believe if any other party is elected the economy will crash. 

So if you want to do us and yourself a favor help us to get rid of this fundementalists and get back to our own secular roots. Because for us the story is way more depressing. Think of this like you the Chinese people live their avarage life and suddenly CPC decides to become Islamist. That was the shock and trauma we lived when we have first encountered with AKP.


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## ephone

You see, there are idiots who are like wandering dogs, barking this and that. 

With such a dimwit brain, it is just so hard for it to understand human language.


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## Sanchez

It's too bad that only the head officer at the Chinese police station carried a handgun. All policemen should be given guns so that they could stop the terrorists more rapidly...

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## BaybarsHan




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## Wholegrain

BaybarsHan said:


>













If a person getting beaten up is considered "genocide", I can point out many more instances of genocide in your country. However horrible someone getting beaten is, in your country beatings have been administered many times by both civilians and police. The boy is not dead or killed, but those people, like certain police in your country are mentally sick for beating up a child.

That incident also did not happen inside Xinjiang. For several decades, networks of criminals took Uyghur kids from Xinjiang to major cities on China's eastern coast and used them to pickpocket and steal from people in the streets. This kids was probably taken by a criminal gang to an eastern city and the people there assumed he was one of the pickpockets. This doesn't justify beating him up and making him cry but I assume whoever posted the video is trying to make it seem as though Han people are flooding into Uyghur cities and start beating up their kids which is false.


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## Ahiska

The problem i see with what everything happened there is because of the past.
There wouldnt be uyghur attacks anywhere if the CCP wouldnt have fucked up in the past look at inner mongolia nothing happens there because the CCP didnt violate them like the uyguhrs in the past.


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## Snomannen

sayina2012 said:


> English little enough,
> Not too proficient.
> China will soon overtake the United States,
> They will learn Chinese language.
> If it were not lies here,I do not care.
> 
> But you, whether ancient or modern,
> Must learn other people's languages&#8203;&#8203;,
> Nobody learn your language,
> So that it disappears.
> 
> you are afraid to admit your identity,
> But always manage our chinese affairs,
> leading thread off topic.



Oh my godness, let us count how many nonsenses you have posted in such words: 
You are posting posts (in horrible English) in a English forum and you dare to say that "English little enough"? You are the most arrogant, ignorant guy I have ever seen here. You are forcing the other members to understand your awful English and hurt our eyes and brain. 

English is the MOST common languages in the world. It is the international language and also the official language of many developed countries such as Canada, Great Britain and Australia. Although China is indeed growing and Chinese language is getting more important yearly, do you really expect that they would give up their OWN language that easily in a few years? Within your pity life time? Do you really think that China can really overtakes the United States with moving a finger? Tell me my little big mouth ignorant 0.5 &#30343;&#28450;, In these common issues of welfare, living standard, Per-capital income, environmental protection, educational system, people's livelihood and democracy, which one of these topics is that China even better than the US, hmm? Your jokes and ignorance bring nothing but shames to Chinese people. 
Besides, the ability of speaking basic English is an essential skill for international communication -just like chatting in this forum. Look at you, you can't even post a simple sentence in English correctly. I wonder what have you been doing at your school. You are either a freaking &#24046;&#29983; or a naive kid under 10 years old. Now that makes, you are a &#24046;&#29983;, just like other &#30343;&#28450;s. You people are losers at school and in society, the only way that can make you feel better is to worship those intangible, stupid, hilarious piece of clothing. That's right, you people are "clothing worshipers". You people worship a piece of freaking cloth and consider it as the freaking bloody God. That's the most hilarious joke in human history. 
Also my mother language is Cantonese and it never disappeared. It is also the mother language of Macau, HK and half of oversea Chinese people. Once again your freaking ignorance has hurt our eyes.
What the heck does 'afraid to admit your identity' mean. I am a Chinese born in Macau, Macau is a Chinese territory and no doubt it has full of Chinese culture. &#30343;&#28450; has proved their ignorance and lack of logical thinking. 
And stop being thief crying "thief", you are the one who brought the stupid topic Hanfu in this thread and spreading racism and rumors. You are the one who first started the freaking off-topic posts.
Gee, and I thought my English is bad before I have met you people. 

&#20320;&#20497;&#36889;&#20123;&#25308;&#34915;&#25945;&#24466;&#26368;&#21916;&#27489;&#25955;&#20296;&#35616;&#35328;&#22320;&#22495;&#25915;&#25802;&#38548;&#32178;&#37970;&#26063;&#20098;&#25187;&#24125;&#23376;&#20102;&#65292;
&#36899;&#31777;&#21934;&#22522;&#26412;&#30340;&#33521;&#35486;&#20063;&#35498;&#19981;&#22909;&#30340;&#24046;&#29983;&#65292;&#20063;&#31455;&#25954;&#36305;&#21040;&#33521;&#35486;&#32178;&#31449;&#29359;&#36068;&#65292;
&#25955;&#20296;&#21453;&#33775;&#21218;&#21147;&#30340;&#20803;&#28165;&#28415;&#33945;&#38750;&#20013;&#22283;&#35542;&#65292;&#21046;&#36896;&#27665;&#26063;&#20167;&#24680;&#35328;&#35542;&#65292;&#20813;&#36027;&#32102;&#36948;&#36084;&#29105;&#27604;&#38622;&#26446;&#30331;&#36637;&#25976;&#37666;&#65292;
&#30495;&#26159;&#24505;&#38957;&#24505;&#23614;&#30340;&#25943;&#22283;&#36042;&#65294;


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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> English little enough,
> Not too proficient.
> China will soon overtake the United States,
> They will learn Chinese language.
> If it were not lies here,I do not care.
> 
> But you, whether ancient or modern,
> Must learn other people's languages&#8203;&#8203;,
> Nobody learn your language,
> So that it disappears.
> 
> you are afraid to admit your identity,
> But always manage our chinese affairs,
> leading thread off topic.


No country will ever forget their easy language for such a hard language like chinese and you forget that more chinese learn english then any nationality in the world learn chinese.

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## Wholegrain

@Hu Songshan graphic image?

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books



> Foreign tourists in Urumchi today sometimes complain that the city is "too Chinese" in comparison with the Central Asian atmosphere of southern Xinjiang; many believe Urumchi's East Turkestani culture has been erased by Han immigration and architecture.* In fact, the Uyghur population and culture in the city today is a relatively recent feature, for Urumchi in its first decades in most respects resembled a north Chinese town, populated primarily by Tungans from Gansu and Shaanxi and Han from many Chinese provinces, in addition to the bannermen*.



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/world/asia/11china.html?_r=0



> The rioting broke out when the police tried to stop 1,000 Uighurs from holding a protest march over judicial discrimination. *Uighurs went on a rampage, killing many Han civilians while fighting with security forces*. That in turn prompted Han mobs to take up sticks and knives over the next few days and turn on Uighur civilians.



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/04/world/asia/04china.html



> Mr. Xia&#8217;s journalism lecture, accompanied by a PowerPoint demonstration, included other examples of Xinhua&#8217;s handiwork, most notably coverage of ethnic rioting in the far west of China last summer that left nearly 200 people dead.
> 
> *According to the transcript, Mr. Xia explained how Xinhua concealed the true horror of the unrest, during which the victims were mostly Han Chinese, for fear that it would set off violence beyond Urumqi, the capital of the Xinjiang region. Uighur rioters burned bus passengers alive, he told the class, and they raped women and decapitated children.*
> 
> &#8220;Under those circumstances, it would have exacerbated ethnic conflicts if more photos were released,&#8221; he said.


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## sayina2012

Ahiska said:


> No country will ever forget their easy language for such a hard language like chinese and you forget that more chinese learn english then any nationality in the world learn chinese.



Because of machine translation,
You do not understand what I mean,
I am more concerned HAN culture,
Do not belittle others.

Kimono, hanbok swept the world,
HANFU needed to recover.


You can see,
"# 191" thread off-topic,
As a foreigner (he did not dare to identify themselves),
They often prevent from Chinese culture.

For me,
Only in mainland China HAN chinese,
Including Miao Zang Uighur(except traitors),
Is my compatriots.


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## Wholegrain

sayina2012 said:


> Because of machine translation,
> You do not understand what I mean,
> I am more concerned HAN culture,
> Do not belittle others.
> 
> *Kimono, hanbok swept the world,*
> HANFU needed to recover.
> 
> 
> You can see,
> "# 191" thread off-topic,
> As a foreigner (he did not dare to identify themselves),
> They often prevent from Chinese culture.
> 
> For me,
> Only in mainland China HAN chinese,
> Including Miao Zang Uighur(except traitors),
> Is my compatriots.



@Ahiska

This guy is going into fantasy land. He just claimed that "Kimono" (japanese clothing) and "Hanbok" (Korean clothing) have "swept the world".

I do not see anyone outisde of Japan or Korea wearing these clothes.
 @sayina2012 if you are going to make claims like these which are way off topic, create your own thread.


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## Ahiska

Wholegrain said:


> @Ahiska
> 
> This guy is going into fantasy land. He just claimed that "Kimono" (japanese clothing) and "Hanbok" (Korean clothing) have "swept the world".
> 
> I do not see anyone outisde of Japan or Korea wearing these clothes.
> 
> @sayina2012 if you are going to make claims like these which are way off topic, create your own thread.


I find him/her really interesting i have my little moments with the quotes of him/her because how ridicioulus they mostly are.


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## q12093487q

Can somebody make this sayina2012 shutt up? Please.

I can't believe this thread is still going on


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## q12093487q

sayina2012 said:


> Poor child.
> Do not disguise,
> I know what ethnic you are
> 
> 
> Your ancestors has Wolf Totem,
> Why use our flag,



WTF are you talking about?Are you out of your mind?

All right,don't reply me pls.Leave me alone


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## Wholegrain

@Hu Songshan

As you can see from the above posts the thread has gone way off topic again. sayina2012 keeps on going on about clothing and Manchus and he isn't listening to our suggestion of opening another thread.


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## Wholegrain

KirovAirship said:


> Never expect a word with sense from those &#34647;&#34802;.
> 
> 
> 
> Please make an exception, that "&#30343;&#28450;" sayina2012 is spreading racism and rumors. It is a must to let these people knows how foolish they are.



Don't respond to him. Ask the mods to delete his posts, report them. If he keeps on going off topic since the mod already warned him he will get an infraction.

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## sayina2012

q12093487q said:


> WTF are you talking about?Are you out of your mind?
> 
> All right,don't reply me pls.Leave me alone




That's good
Turn right to go out&#12290;


----------



## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> If someone praises Tsarist Russia ruled Kazakhstan,
> When you wear the Kazakh traditional clothing,
> They abuse,
> How would you do?
> So, you should understand my thoughts.
> 
> Silk is our HAN ancestors invented,
> Symbol of Asian civilizations,
> make cheongsam with leaves,
> Is the ancient cheongsam&#12290;
> Cheongsam is just a small episode,
> Definitely not the main theme.
> 
> thread off topic&#65292;
> Finally, I hope Uighur good luck,
> Like us,
> They just want their own lives,


You cannot compare the Manchus with Tsarist Russia.
They are totally different the Manchus did something for China where the Tsarist Russia brought nothing but destruction in the Turkic states.


----------



## sayina2012

Ahiska said:


> You cannot compare the Manchus with Tsarist Russia.
> They are totally different the Manchus did something for China where the Tsarist Russia brought nothing but destruction in the Turkic states.



Mongolia Zhungeer,Was completely massacred.
How do you think?
This is just tip of the iceberg.
Now in Mongolia,
A lot of people hate "chinese",
They set up Nazi organizations,
In fact, they hate is not "us", but "they."

I read a lot of old paintings,
Our ancestors were very elegant,
Clothing is very beautiful, luxurious,
Modern kimono hanbok still mimic those ancient pattern,

Why, our ancestors in the Qing Dynasty, become ugly, funny,
Ridiculed by foreigners,
I do not believe is voluntary.


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## Ahiska

sayina2012 said:


> Mongolia Zhungeer,Was completely massacred.
> How do you think?
> This is just tip of the iceberg
> 
> I read a lot of old paintings,
> Our ancestors were very elegant,
> Clothing is very beautiful, luxurious,
> Modern kimono hanbok still mimic those ancient pattern,
> 
> Why, our ancestors in the Qing Dynasty, become ugly, funny,
> Ridiculed by foreigners,
> I do not believe is voluntary.



Believe me a chinese dinasty wouldnt be so different from the Qing dinasty they would also be ridiculed by foreigners.


----------



## sayina2012

Ahiska said:


> Believe me a chinese dinasty wouldnt be so different from the Qing dinasty they would also be ridiculed by foreigners.



You say these "foreigners",
Only Japanese, Korean understand
Westerners can not tell, discrimination against Asians.

Japanese can easily see the difference,
They respected the ancient Chinese,
After the demise of the Ming Dynasty called "ZHINA" (meaning, not qualified called China).


Korean also know,
But because of the Korean War,
In the Korean drama,
Ming Dynasty officials were deliberately dressed as MChu,
But Korean officials have to wear HANFU (my avatar style)
Point out that we are barbarians


----------



## Armstrong

Hey @Hu Songshan : Bro can't some of the Hui Muslims talk to the Uighurs & rationally talk to them how Islam doesn't allow terrorism as a means of getting one's voice heard ? 

I was reading up on Hu Songshan (your namesake) & he sounds like a very progressive Muslim Intellectual....we, in Pakistan, sure as hell could use someone like him !


----------



## Ahiska

Armstrong said:


> Hey @Hu Songshan : Bro can't some of the Hui Muslims talk to the Uighurs & rationally talk to them how Islam doesn't allow terrorism as a means of getting one's voice heard ?
> 
> I was reading up on Hu Songshan (your namesake) & he sounds like a very progressive Muslim Intellectual....we, in Pakistan, sure as hell could use someone like him !



This attacks are ethnically motivated not because of Islam those many/less uyghurs dont feel that they are chinese and want an independant turkic uyghur country.

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## Wholegrain

Ahiska said:


> This attacks are ethnically motivated not because of Islam those many/less uyghurs dont feel that they are chinese and want an independant turkic uyghur country.




 @Armstrong

The first separatist activities were started by Jadidist inspired intellectuals like Sabit Damulla Abdulbaki and the Bughra brothers. Go look up the Jadidist movement in central asia. They advocated Pan Turkism and the separatists that set up tthe First East Turkestan Republic (Committee for National Revolution) were Pan Turkic and against non Turkic Muslims like the Hui. They tried mixing Islamism with Pan Turkism (the name of their republic was Islamic Republic of East Turkestan) and implemented both sharia and policies against non Turkic peoples. Abdullah Bughra beat several Christian Swedes and then they massacred both Han and Hui civilians at Kizil.

The only thing they accomplished was pissing off both non Muslims and Non Turkic Muslims. Their Republic was crushed and their leaders were executed or driven away by the Hui who then retook control of the region.

They didn't use the word "Uyghur" or even think of themselves as Uyghur because that name was given by the Soviets in 1921 at the Tashkent conference. The Uyghurs were an ancient Turkic confederation 1,200 years ago and their modern descendants are the Buddhist Yugurs of Gansu. The soviets stole the name from them, and applied it to the Turkic people in the Tarim but they are descended from the Karluks.

The name "Uyghur" was introduced into Xinjiang by the puppet Soviet governor Sheng Shicai. The Soviets created a puppet Uyghur Nationalist movement under Ehmetjan Qasim who was a member of the Soviet Communist party. They attacked China in the Ili Rebellion in 1944 and set up the Second East Turkestan Republic with Soviet help. However they still declared Islam the state religion even though they were communists and Soviet puppets.

China sent Hui and Salar (Turkic Muslims) to fight against the Soviets and their Uyghur allies. 

Now since China adopted the Soviet names for ethnic classification, so it has drilled the (erroneous) name Uyghur into common usage and probably nobody is going to ever correct it.

Mixing religion with *ethnic* nationalism is retarded. The ETIM terrorists are still mixing "Uyghur" nationalism and Islamism. If people want to be Islamist they should be Islamist without any nationalism, or if they want to be nationalist they should not be Islamist.

Anyway all the trouble started when this state was abolished. I believe if this was still in place there wouldn't be any problems or rebellions. The Kumul Khans were the descendants of the Chagatais, who were the traditional monarchs of the Uyghur's ancestors. The Khans were vassals to the Chinese government and they controlled a semi autonomous state. The Khans were very loyal to China and the last one was obsessed with Chinese things. After the Khanate was abolished by the pro Soviet governor, the Pan Turkic jadists took advantage of the chaos to revolt and establish the First East Turkestan Republic.

Kumul Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## Ahiska

Wholegrain said:


> @Armstrong
> 
> The first separatist activities were started by Jadidist inspired intellectuals like Sabit Damulla Abdulbaki and the Bughra brothers. Go look up the Jadidist movement in central asia. They advocated Pan Turkism and the separatists that set up tthe First East Turkestan Republic (Committee for National Revolution) were Pan Turkic and against non Turkic Muslims like the Hui. They tried mixing Islamism with Pan Turkism (the name of their republic was Islamic Republic of East Turkestan) and implemented both sharia and policies against non Turkic peoples. Abdullah Bughra beat several Christian Swedes and then they massacred both Han and Hui civilians at Kizil.
> 
> The only thing they accomplished was pissing off both non Muslims and Non Turkic Muslims. Their Republic was crushed and their leaders were executed or driven away by the Hui who then retook control of the region.
> 
> They didn't use the word "Uyghur" or even think of themselves as Uyghur because that name was given by the Soviets in 1921 at the Tashkent conference. The Uyghurs were an ancient Turkic confederation 1,200 years ago and their modern descendants are the Buddhist Yugurs of Gansu. The soviets stole the name from them, and applied it to the Turkic people in the Tarim but they are descended from the Karluks.
> 
> The name "Uyghur" was introduced into Xinjiang by the puppet Soviet governor Sheng Shicai. The Soviets created a puppet Uyghur Nationalist movement under Ehmetjan Qasim who was a member of the Soviet Communist party. They attacked China in the Ili Rebellion in 1944 and set up the Second East Turkestan Republic with Soviet help. However they still declared Islam the state religion even though they were communists and Soviet puppets.
> 
> China sent Hui and Salar (Turkic Muslims) to fight against the Soviets and their Uyghur allies.
> 
> Now since China adopted the Soviet names for ethnic classification, so it has drilled the (erroneous) name Uyghur into common usage and probably nobody is going to ever correct it.
> 
> Mixing religion with *ethnic* nationalism is retarded. The ETIM terrorists are still mixing "Uyghur" nationalism and Islamism. If people want to be Islamist they should be Islamist without any nationalism, or if they want to be nationalist they should not be Islamist.
> 
> Anyway all the trouble started when this state was abolished. I believe if this was still in place there wouldn't be any problems or rebellions. The Kumul Khans were the descendants of the Chagatais, who were the traditional monarchs of the Uyghur's ancestors. The Khans were vassals to the Chinese government and they controlled a semi autonomous state. The Khans were very loyal to China and the last one was obsessed with Chinese things. After the Khanate was abolished by the pro Soviet governor, the Pan Turkic jadists took advantage of the chaos to revolt and establish the First East Turkestan Republic.
> 
> Kumul Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



This person is one of the reasons of the violance in eastern turkestan Jin Shuren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Wholegrain

Ahiska said:


> This person is one of the reasons of the violance in eastern turkestan Jin Shuren - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



The indigenous name for the Tarim Basin was Moghulistan (land of the Mongols because the Chagatai rulers were descended from Genghis Khan) or Altishahr (which means six cities, after the six most important cities in the Tarim Basin). The ancestors of the modern Uyghurs used these names. Moghulistan was the name since medieval times.

Eastern Turkestan was a name used by foreigners to describe the Tarim Basin, not by the people native to it themselves. Then Uyghur nationalists in the last century adopted the name Eastern Turkestan and got rid of Moghulistan and altishahr.

Xinjiang is also not just the Tarim Basin. The north is known as Dzungharia (land of the Dzunghar Mongols, they are the natives of that area) or Ili. Only the south is the Tarim Basin, aka moghulistan or eastern turkestan.

It was China who created Xinjiang by unifying the two distinct regions into one province in 1884 and renaming the entire unified province as Xinjiang. Before 1884 China administered the north as Tianshan beilu and the south as Tianshan nanlu and only the south was called "eastern turkestan" while the north was called Ili. The north was the Zunghar Khanate while the south was the Chagatai Khanate.

The names for the two individual distinct regions cannot be applied to the entire province. Only northern Xinjiang can be called by the names (Dzungharia, Ili, tianshan beilu), and southern Xinjiang called by the names (tarim basin, Moghulistan, Altishahr, eastern turkestan, little bukhara, tianshan nanlu)


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## Gold1010

Tensions in western China - CNN.com Video


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## Wholegrain

Gold1010 said:


> Tensions in western China - CNN.com Video



The video repeats the mantra of Han flooding into Xinjiang and as usual falsely implies that its on Uyghur land. Uyghurs make up the majority in their homeland in the Tarim Basin (southern Xinjiang) and in Dzungharia (northern Xinjiang) both Uyghur and Han are immigrants and nobody has the right to kick them out. The native Dzunghars are almost extinct and number only in the thousands.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ics-han-immigration-xinjiang.html#post4457126

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## Snomannen

Wholegrain said:


> The video repeats the mantra of Han flooding into Xinjiang and as usual falsely implies that its on Uyghur land. Uyghurs make up the majority in their homeland in the Tarim Basin (southern Xinjiang) and in Dzungharia (northern Xinjiang) both Uyghur and Han are immigrants and nobody has the right to kick them out. The native Dzunghars are almost extinct and number only in the thousands.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ics-han-immigration-xinjiang.html#post4457126



Setting up the [Autonomous Region] was really a bad idea. 
Xinjiang is never a region only belong to Uyghur.

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## Wholegrain

KirovAirship said:


> Setting up the [Autonomous Region] was really a bad idea.
> Xinjiang is never a region only belong to Uyghur.



No, I think Xinjiang should have been divided into two regions, first the Soviet imposed name Uyghur should have been replaced with either Karluk or Chagatai, and the Tarim Basin turned into the Xiyu Karluk/Chagatai autonomous region and Dzungharia gets turned into Dzunghar Ili Autonomous region. Xinjiang is bigger than many other ordinary provinces in China and before 1884 the two parts were administered seperately.

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## ptoss1

Lux de Veritas said:


> If Ming dynasty reign during the opium war, China could be conquered entirely.



If Ming Dynasty wasn't so busy fending off the Manchu and Mongolians, the Chinese would've still had their goddamn treasure fleet to fend off European encroachment. Bad logic is bad.

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## northeast

ptoss1 said:


> If Ming Dynasty wasn't so busy fending off the Manchu and Mongolians, the Chinese would've still had their goddamn treasure fleet to fend off European encroachment. Bad logic is bad.



Nah,that's a day dream.ming fleets are for business,not for war.In fact, it's more like Ferrari rather than tanks.It's useless.


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## Snomannen

ptoss1 said:


> If Ming Dynasty wasn't so busy fending off the Manchu and Mongolians, the Chinese would've still had their goddamn treasure fleet to fend off European encroachment. Bad logic is bad.



Ming Dynasty, one of the worst dynasties of China, was a curse of Chinese people,


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## FlowerSummer

northeast said:


> Nah,that's a day dream.ming fleets are for business,not for war.In fact, it's more like Ferrari rather than tanks.It's useless.



But the Ming *does fend off *European encroachment, even during their weakest period.


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## FlowerSummer

ptoss1 said:


> If Ming Dynasty wasn't so busy fending off the Manchu and Mongolians, the Chinese would've still had their goddamn treasure fleet to fend off European encroachment. Bad logic is bad.



Although I wouldnt go as far as to say treasure fleet is invincible, but at least its a massive ocean going fleet that the Manchu Qing never able to build.


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> Although I wouldnt go as far as to say treasure fleet is invincible, but at least its a massive ocean going fleet that the Manchu Qing never able to build.



The whole trade of Ming Dynasty (in its best period) can't even march a port in Qing Dynasty.


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## FlowerSummer

Ahiska said:


> Believe me a chinese dinasty wouldnt be so different from the Qing dinasty they would also be ridiculed by foreigners.



The Ming maybe still unable to defeat the foreigners, but at least the emperor will not flee from the capital just to save his own a$$. They will not sell out a huge proportions of the nation's land (size larger than France+Poland) just to beg the foreigners to spare their own lives, and surely wont team up with foreigners to invade china after the emperor has been ovethrown (go check out manchukuo and imperial japan during WW1 till WWll), just so they can grab back on power again.


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> The whole trade of Ming Dynasty (in its best period) can't even march a port in Qing Dynasty.



And yet Manchu Qing still cant defend their own turf from the British. On the other hand Ming China chase out the Dutch and claim Taiwan, and that was during their weakest period.

Oh, of course they pretty much use up most of their treasury made out of the "trade" you mention to bribe and beg foreigners to spare their lives and let them remain on power


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> And yet Manchu Qing still cant defend their own turf from the British. On the other hand Ming China chase out the Dutch and claim Taiwan, and that was during their weakest period.
> 
> Oh, of course they pretty much use up most of their treasury made out of the "trade" you mention to bribe and beg foreigners to spare their lives and let them remain on power



The UK was a global Empire, the Qing Dynasty was defeated by one of the greatest countries in the world. Taiwan was claimed by Koxinga, not the Ming dynasty. Besides the Dutch was not even a regular army, they were 'security'. They were defeated because their lack of manpower and used up all the resource in their castle. 

Also what if I told you that the Ming navy even asked Portuguese *citizens* in Macau to deal with those pirates they can't handle with -and those Portuguese had won several wars and scared those pirates away. 

&#32780;&#19988;&#28961;&#35542;&#26159;&#28207;&#21475;&#24314;&#35373;&#65292;&#20986;&#20837;&#21475;&#29986;&#21697;&#20197;&#21450;&#23565;&#22806;&#36031;&#26131;&#22283;&#23478;&#25976;&#30446;&#26126;&#26397;&#37117;&#28961;&#27861;&#27604;&#24471;&#20102;&#28165;&#26397;&#65292;
&#24478;&#20094;&#38534;&#65298;&#65298;&#24180;&#21040;&#36947;&#20809;&#65297;&#65304;&#24180;&#65292;&#21934;&#24478;&#24291;&#24030;&#19968;&#20491;&#28207;&#21475;&#19968;&#24180;&#30340;&#36031;&#26131;&#38989;&#29978;&#33267;&#26159;&#26126;&#26397;&#26368;&#24375;&#30427;&#26102;&#26399;&#30340;50&#20493;&#65294;

Ref:&#65339;&#20013;&#22283;&#23565;&#22806;&#36031;&#26131;&#21490;&#65341;

&#21776;&#26397;&#39318;&#37117;&#34987;&#21312;&#21312;&#21520;&#34115;&#20308;&#38936;&#22810;&#27425;&#65292;
&#21335;&#26126;&#30343;&#23460;&#29978;&#33267;&#28858;&#20102;&#21521;&#32645;&#39340;&#27714;&#25937;&#32780;&#21463;&#27927;&#65292;
&#26126;&#26397;&#25943;&#20809;&#23435;&#37329;&#20803;&#30340;&#25976;&#29702;&#21270;&#22825;&#25991;&#23416;&#65292;&#38936;&#22303;&#30001;&#24314;&#22283;&#33267;&#28357;&#20129;&#19968;&#30452;&#22312;&#32302;&#27700;&#65292;
&#28165;&#26397;&#25171;&#25943;&#20102;&#35199;&#26041;&#24375;&#25973;&#28310;&#22134;&#29246;&#65292;&#25226;&#25972;&#20491;&#19968;&#30452;&#40635;&#29033;&#26126;&#26397;&#30340;&#33945;&#21476;&#32013;&#20837;&#29256;&#22294;&#65292;&#38936;&#22303;&#24478;&#38283;&#22283;&#20197;&#20358;&#19968;&#30452;&#22312;&#25844;&#24373;&#65292;&#28858;&#27665;&#22283;&#30041;&#19979;&#30340;&#26159;&#24291;&#22823;&#30340;&#38936;&#22303;&#21644;&#23567;&#37327;&#30340;&#37325;&#24037;&#26989;&#65292;&#32080;&#26524;&#21602;&#65294;


&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;
_Irresponsible Google translate: _

And whether it is port construction, import and export products as well as the number of countries foreign trade than got Qing Ming can not,
Qianlong dynasty from 18 years to 22 years, a single year from Guangzhou, a port of trade and even the most prosperous period of the Ming Dynasty 50 times.


Ref: [China's foreign trade history]

Tibetan capital of the Tang Dynasty was a mere occupation times,
Ming imperial Rome, or even to help and to be baptized,
Song Yuan Ming lost light of physics and chemistry astronomy, from the foundation to the demise of the territory has been shrinking,
Qing Dynasty defeated enemies quasi-Western Junggar, the whole has been incorporated into trouble Ming Dynasty Mongolian territory from the territory has been expanding since the founding, the Republic of leaving a vast territory and a small amount of heavy industry, the results do.
&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;&#65293;

&#28165;&#26397;&#26371;&#27604;&#26126;&#26397;&#24046;&#65311;&#25105;&#30495;&#30340;&#19981;&#36889;&#27171;&#35469;&#28858;&#65294;


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## Kolaps

sayina2012 said:


> Mongolia Zhungeer,Was completely massacred.
> How do you think?
> This is just tip of the iceberg.
> Now in Mongolia,
> A lot of people hate "chinese",
> They set up Nazi organizations,
> In fact, they hate is not "us", but "they."
> 
> I read a lot of old paintings,
> Our ancestors were very elegant,
> Clothing is very beautiful, luxurious,
> Modern kimono hanbok still mimic those ancient pattern,
> 
> Why, our ancestors in the Qing Dynasty, become ugly, funny,
> Ridiculed by foreigners,
> I do not believe is voluntary.



And the stupid ROC and PRC government are pointing Cheongsam as Han Chinese official traditional cloth.

Han Chinese today became barbarian after hundreds years under foreigners: Manchu, Christian KMT and Communist CCP. This is really sad.

I think we should restore China as it should be. Seeing how ugly, wrong and inappropriate the rebuilt ancient buildings in mainland, I can see that our standard became so low and cheap. Very embarrassing!

Our high standard, elegant and perfection culture already gone.

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## Kolaps

KirovAirship said:


> Ming Dynasty, one of the worst dynasties of China, was a curse of Chinese people,



Ming is not that worst.

At the early and middle of Ming, their achievement exceeded previous dynasty. Their economy was the largest and their military was the strongest. Only at the late period, they became a shame.

But restored by Manchu and lead into a new height.

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## Kolaps

FlowerSummer said:


> And yet Manchu Qing still cant defend their own turf from the British. On the other hand Ming China chase out the Dutch and claim Taiwan, and that was during their weakest period.
> 
> Oh, of course they pretty much use up most of their treasury made out of the "trade" you mention to bribe and beg foreigners to spare their lives and let them remain on power



That is not true if Qing can't defend against British. They just easily give up because of mismanagement. 

We can blame anything about late Qing to Empress Dowager Cixi. I don't know if this is a bad thing or good thing, without her, we probably still living under Manchu ruler as Manchu able to reconsolidating their power again into a modern state.

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## Kolaps

Armstrong said:


> Hey @Hu Songshan : Bro can't some of the Hui Muslims talk to the Uighurs & rationally talk to them how Islam doesn't allow terrorism as a means of getting one's voice heard ?
> 
> I was reading up on Hu Songshan (your namesake) & he sounds like a very progressive Muslim Intellectual....we, in Pakistan, sure as hell could use someone like him !



I don't think they can. Uighurs problem is probably not because of Uighurs.

They may be need to convince USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups.

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## Kolaps

Wholegrain said:


> If a person getting beaten up is considered "genocide", I can point out many more instances of genocide in your country. However horrible someone getting beaten is, in your country beatings have been administered many times by both civilians and police. The boy is not dead or killed, but those people, like certain police in your country are mentally sick for beating up a child.
> 
> That incident also did not happen inside Xinjiang. For several decades, networks of criminals took Uyghur kids from Xinjiang to major cities on China's eastern coast and used them to pickpocket and steal from people in the streets. This kids was probably taken by a criminal gang to an eastern city and the people there assumed he was one of the pickpockets. This doesn't justify beating him up and making him cry but I assume whoever posted the video is trying to make it seem as though Han people are flooding into Uyghur cities and start beating up their kids which is false.



Islamist propaganda channel full of lie and slander.

Like they are not fear sin for doing it.

Heart lightly do terrorist attack and provoking war everywhere, if like crippling and murdering people as something normal, like eating and breathing.

They make Islam reputation so bad.

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## cnleio

Kolaps said:


> I don't think they can. Uighurs problem is probably not because of Uighurs.
> 
> They may be need to convince USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups.


Does USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups willing to mediate the Chechnya problem in Russia ? About Uighurs in China, i personally suggest 3rd country keep outside or push China to ur opponent.

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## Kolaps

cnleio said:


> Does USA, Turkey and all independent Islamist groups willing to mediate the Chechnya problem in Russia ? About Uighurs in China, i personally suggest 3rd country keep outside or push China to ur opponent.



The main problem is probably the independent Islamist groups.

They are independent, separated group from one to another, but have a common goal to Islamize the whole world (and serving their own interest too).

You can convince some of these groups, but there are always another and newly established one, looking for trouble again. They even bite each other too. Even fellow Muslims countries. Totally chaos!

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## Wholegrain

@KirovAirship

Do not fall into the trap of attacking the Ming because some racist trolls attack the Qing. The Ming did not receive its territories from the Yuan, they didn't hand anything to the Ming on a plate. It conquered the entire inner mongolia region and it conquered Manchuria including modern day Primorsky Krai. The Jurchen chieftains submitted to the Ming.

Nurhaci and his family were vassals to the Ming. Their tribe obeyed the orders of the Ming general stationed in the area where the jianzhou jurchens lived. Nurhaci rebelled because his father and grandfather were accidently killed by the Ming when they were loyal vassals.

The Ming also defeated the Portuguese at Tamao in 1521 and 1522 and they defeated the Dutch in the Pescadores in the 1620s.

A member of the Ming Impial family became a Marquis during the Qing.

You should not just look out for the racists like Sayina. People like Okemos are spreading serious BS about minorities in China around this forum. Okemos is claiming Islamic schools in China is a new thing. This jack*** is lying, there have been Islamic schools called "Jingtang Jiaoyu" and plenty of mosques all over major Chinese cities since the Ming dynasty.

He then took the entire population of Xinjiang, which is 21 million (including around 10 million Han in Dzungharia) and claimed that the entire population were Muslims to misrepresent population growth of Muslims as expanding rapidly.

He then blames Hui for murdering millions of Han in dungan revolt, was Zhang Xianzhong a Hui? Were the Nian and Taiping rebellions done by Hui? Were the Japanese Hui? He is a serial, ticked off liar.

Hui have served in the Ming dynasty under Mi Layin and they fought against the Qing to restore the Ming, then there were Hui who fought for the Qing against Hui rebels like in 1781 loyal Sunni and Khufiyya Sufi Muslims fought against the Jahriyya Sufi cult, loyal Hui helped the Qing crush the rebel Hui in the Dungan revolt, Hui like Cui Wei and Hau Decai helped the Qing reconquer Xinjiang, Hui crushed another rebellion in 1895, the General Zuo Baogui who fought against Japan in Korea at Pyongyang was a Hui, Hui fought in the Boxer Rebellion against the Eight Nation alliance, and they fought japan in ww2.

The Ming dynasty set up an entire Hui Astronomy Bureau which employed Hui who used Islamic astronomy from Persia to determine the correct date for the calender. Okemos conveniently forgets all of these facts.

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## Kolaps

Ming military at the early and middle period was very very strong.

Ming develop military capability to fight Mongols cavalry easily.

As gunpowder was invented in China, so most of the world gunpowder innovations at the time were made by Ming. As most of Ming military were composed by gunpowder units. From the multi shape and size of canons, handguns, grenade, mines, exploding arrows, etc.


The reason why Chinese modern historian wrote that Ming and Qing were shamefully weak...it's because they want you to accept foreign democracy and communism. First, they need to break your "stupid" confidence on "shameful" Chinese civilization. <-- they said @sshole civilization full of funny superstitious! (we heard it all the time! even in Taiwan)

Praising and accepting democracy and communism, you guys are the real traitors!!!

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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> The UK was a global Empire, the Qing Dynasty was defeated by one of the greatest countries in the world. Taiwan was claimed by Koxinga, not the Ming dynasty. Besides the Dutch was not even a regular army, they were 'security'. They were defeated because their lack of manpower and used up all the resource in their castle.
> 
> Also what if I told you that the Ming navy even asked Portuguese *citizens* in Macau to deal with those pirates they can't handle with -and those Portuguese had won several wars and scared those pirates away.



Oh, so Japan also considered as one of the greatest countries in the world even before WW1? The one only start meiji restoration no more than half century.

Also what if I told you that the Manchu Qing even *beg* Russians to *"mediate"* with those "barbarians" they can't handle with, --of course our generous Manchu Qing will give *"some"* land and silver to them as gratitude and apology.

Come on, we all know Taiwan is not the only victory Ming China score against the Europeans. And dont let me start how the Manchukuo Chieftain let himself become Japanese puppet, even the manchu royal family female members were sent to Japan to be train as agents by Japanese to be used against China.

And nope, the Ming China did not succeed any land from the Mongol Yuan, they *reconquer and reclaim* the land from the Mongol Yuan.


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## FlowerSummer

Kolaps said:


> That is not true if Qing can't defend against British. They just easily give up because of mismanagement.
> 
> We can blame anything about late Qing to Empress Dowager Cixi. I don't know if this is a bad thing or good thing, without her, we probably still living under Manchu ruler as Manchu able to reconsolidating their power again into a modern state.



That is the true and the real reason why Chinese was humilated by the foreigners during the Manchu Qing, because they *give up even before try hard*. We can lose battles or even wars, but that was just our body was defeated. But if we give up, or *worse*, give up before try hard, then it was our spirit that was being defeated. Our body maybe enslaved after we lose wars, but we cannot allowed our mind and body be enslaved.

We can blame everything to old hag cixi all we want, but that does not change the fact Manchu Qing is already flawed beyond imagination, and broken beyond repair.

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## FlowerSummer

Kolaps said:


> And the stupid ROC and PRC government are pointing Cheongsam as Han Chinese official traditional cloth.
> 
> Han Chinese today became barbarian after hundreds years under foreigners: Manchu, Christian KMT and Communist CCP. This is really sad.
> 
> I think we should restore China as it should be. Seeing how ugly, wrong and inappropriate the rebuilt ancient buildings in mainland, I can see that our standard became so low and cheap. Very embarrassing!
> 
> *Our high standard, elegant and perfection culture already gone*.





Kolaps said:


> Ming military at the early and middle period was very very strong.
> 
> Ming develop military capability to fight Mongols cavalry easily.
> 
> As gunpowder was invented in China, so most of the world gunpowder innovations at the time were made by Ming. As most of Ming military were composed by gunpowder units. From the multi shape and size of canons, handguns, grenade, mines, exploding arrows, etc.
> 
> 
> The reason why Chinese modern historian wrote that Ming and Qing were shamefully weak...it's because they want you to accept foreign democracy and communism. First, they need to break your "stupid" confidence on "shameful" Chinese civilization. <-- they said a$$hole civilization full of funny superstitious! (we heard it all the time! even in Taiwan)
> 
> *Praising and accepting democracy and communism, you guys are the real traitors!!!*



I completely agree with these. We chinese have fallen so low, so low until we have to distort and destroy our own traditional culture just so we can *copy* all these "advance ideas" from the foreigners.

We are so pathetic, to the point of create prejudice and discrimination, even persecution and distortion, in the name of revolution and liberation, towards our own traditonal culture that created by our ancestors for thousands of years since, just so that they can *shoulder all the blame and sins* of why China become so bad in the recent few centuries.

That we, the decendents of these great ancestors, may only be the only people in the world that can voluntarily self inflicted such prejudice and discrimination towards our own traditional culture, just so we can conveniently dump all the blame of our poor performance in recent few hundread years, onto the innocent arts and cultures that was created thousand years before, the very own culture that once led China towards golden age again and again in the past.

Really, we chinese are such a miraculous creature, that me as a fellow chinese, cant even understad.

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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> Oh, so Japan also considered as one of the greatest countries in the world even before WW1? The one only start meiji restoration no more than half century.
> 
> Also what if I told you that the Manchu Qing even *beg* Russians to *"mediate"* with those "barbarians" they can't handle with, --of course our generous Manchu Qing will give *"some"* land and silver to them as gratitude and apology.
> 
> Come on, we all know Taiwan is not the only victory Ming China score against the Europeans. And dont let me start how the Manchukuo Chieftain let himself become Japanese puppet, even the manchu royal family female members were sent to Japan to be train as agents by Japanese to be used against China.
> 
> And nope, the Ming China did not succeed any land from the Mongol Yuan, they *reconquer and reclaim* the land from the Mongol Yuan.



What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well. 

And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly. 

Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory". 

Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of &#30343;&#21332;&#36557;, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as &#38515;&#32752;&#31456;, &#20319;&#40607;&#38307;, &#21555;&#20811;&#20161;, &#38364;&#21521;&#25033;, &#21776;&#32858;&#20116;, &#36249;&#25215;&#37329; etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [&#26481;&#21271;&#27665;&#30526;&#33258;&#34907;&#36557;]?

That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '&#22823;&#35199;&#21271;' and the other lands.


----------



## Snomannen

Wholegrain said:


> @KirovAirship
> 
> Do not fall into the trap of attacking the Ming because some racist trolls attack the Qing. The Ming did not receive its territories from the Yuan, they didn't hand anything to the Ming on a plate. It conquered the entire inner mongolia region and it conquered Manchuria including modern day Primorsky Krai. The Jurchen chieftains submitted to the Ming.
> 
> Nurhaci and his family were vassals to the Ming. Their tribe obeyed the orders of the Ming general stationed in the area where the jianzhou jurchens lived. Nurhaci rebelled because his father and grandfather were accidently killed by the Ming when they were loyal vassals.
> 
> The Ming also defeated the Portuguese at Tamao in 1521 and 1522 and they defeated the Dutch in the Pescadores in the 1620s.
> 
> A member of the Ming Impial family became a Marquis during the Qing.
> 
> You should not just look out for the racists like Sayina. People like Okemos are spreading serious BS about minorities in China around this forum. Okemos is claiming Islamic schools in China is a new thing. This jack*** is lying, there have been Islamic schools called "Jingtang Jiaoyu" and plenty of mosques all over major Chinese cities since the Ming dynasty.
> 
> He then took the entire population of Xinjiang, which is 21 million (including around 10 million Han in Dzungharia) and claimed that the entire population were Muslims to misrepresent population growth of Muslims as expanding rapidly.
> 
> He then blames Hui for murdering millions of Han in dungan revolt, was Zhang Xianzhong a Hui? Were the Nian and Taiping rebellions done by Hui? Were the Japanese Hui? He is a serial, ticked off liar.
> 
> Hui have served in the Ming dynasty under Mi Layin and they fought against the Qing to restore the Ming, then there were Hui who fought for the Qing against Hui rebels like in 1781 loyal Sunni and Khufiyya Sufi Muslims fought against the Jahriyya Sufi cult, loyal Hui helped the Qing crush the rebel Hui in the Dungan revolt, Hui like Cui Wei and Hau Decai helped the Qing reconquer Xinjiang, Hui crushed another rebellion in 1895, the General Zuo Baogui who fought against Japan in Korea at Pyongyang was a Hui, Hui fought in the Boxer Rebellion against the Eight Nation alliance, and they fought japan in ww2.
> 
> The Ming dynasty set up an entire Hui Astronomy Bureau which employed Hui who used Islamic astronomy from Persia to determine the correct date for the calender. Okemos conveniently forgets all of these facts.



I am sick of those people who have been spreading rumors and lies since the internet became popular. These people are nothing but trouble. They worship ancient traditional clothing and the Ming Dynasty and spread their racist by attacking and blaming Qing Dynasty (their true target is Manchurian people and other minorities). They claim that "only Han represent China" and ignore the fact that China (and its history) belongs to the whole Chinese ethnics group. They even claim that Yuan and Qing were not China and gave our own history to out-landers such as Outer Mongolians.

They are the true friends of Dala Lama, Rebiya Kadeer, President Lee and other anti-China powers.


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## Snomannen

Kolaps said:


> Ming is not that worst.
> 
> At the early and middle of Ming, their achievement exceeded previous dynasty. Their economy was the largest and their military was the strongest. Only at the late period, they became a shame.
> 
> But restored by Manchu and lead into a new height.



The Qing Dynasty has freed those &#36068;&#25142; who have been killing by the Ming Dynasty. 
Restored ancient Chinese knowledge by &#36655;&#20314;&#23416;. (&#26126;&#20154;&#22909;&#21051;&#21476;&#26360;&#32780;&#21476;&#26360;&#20129
Taken back lots of land and defeated Mongolia and &#28310;&#22134;&#29246;.

If there wasn't Qing Dynasty, China would have become a "Later Yuan" created by &#28310;&#22134;&#29246; or a second India.


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.
> 
> And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.
> 
> Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory".
> 
> Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of &#30343;&#21332;&#36557;, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as &#38515;&#32752;&#31456;, &#20319;&#40607;&#38307;, &#21555;&#20811;&#20161;, &#38364;&#21521;&#25033;, &#21776;&#32858;&#20116;, &#36249;&#25215;&#37329; etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [&#26481;&#21271;&#27665;&#30526;&#33258;&#34907;&#36557;]?
> 
> That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '&#22823;&#35199;&#21271;' and the other lands.



What kind of logic is this? Oh I get it, internet keybord warriors logic, whereby a country "greatnest" and "power" are evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered or how many battles and wars they won or even how many wealth they amass in their treasury...hah!

For me, those are only part of the aspect I put into evaluation, there is also many other aspect, especially how they react when they face a national crisis like foreign invasion, what they do after they were defeated in battles or wars, or even after being overthrown.

Take your "Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian" for example, the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for me, it is how they react to this crisis. Tell me, did the Ming emperos bend their knees and beg the mongolians to spare their lives, with the promise of land and wealth? Did the Ming imperial court bribe the mongolians with *"some"* money and land just to get back their precious emperors? Or even they are so scare of the mongolians that they flee from the capital? Or did they just ignored the mongolians threat to kill the emperors and instead let someone else to rise to the imperial throne and thus the Ming china court administration continued as usual?

No one claims chinese histories is beautiful, please dont be an idiot. In fact China had lost countless of battles and wars in the past 5000 years against foreigners, and some although won, but pay a brutal price. But hey, I did not evaluate history according to these only, and classified chinese dynasty based solely on military prowes or territory size or even how many *gold* they have in treasury, just exactly like those stupid kids that only know to play computer RTS games.

And oh before you mention how bad Ming was again, I tell you what, I love Ming, not because she is the strongest or even the best dynasty, but the spirit of the Ming China imperial court when facing external threat. Hell I personally grade all chinese government starting from mongol Yuan till now, yes *now*, as sub par.

That reminds me manchu Qing was even more short lived than Ming China, this is a fact. Manchu Qing maybe large, but they die fast.


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## Wholegrain

KirovAirship said:


> What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.
> 
> And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian,* praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese *and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.
> 
> *Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory". *
> 
> Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of &#30343;&#21332;&#36557;, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as &#38515;&#32752;&#31456;, &#20319;&#40607;&#38307;, &#21555;&#20811;&#20161;, &#38364;&#21521;&#25033;, &#21776;&#32858;&#20116;, &#36249;&#25215;&#37329; etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [&#26481;&#21271;&#27665;&#30526;&#33258;&#34907;&#36557;]?
> 
> That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. *Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact.* Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '&#22823;&#35199;&#21271;' and the other lands.



The Ming never praised the Spanish for massacring anyone.Also the Ming defeated the Portuguese in 1521 and 1522 at Tamao and the Dutch in the 1620s in the Pescadores. The Ming did not loose Yuan territory because they never owned it. The Ming took China back by force from the Yuan to reconquer inner Mongolia and Primorsky Krai and sacked the Yuan capital as far north as Karakorum.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> The Qing Dynasty has freed those &#36068;&#25142; who have been killing by the Ming Dynasty.
> Restored ancient Chinese knowledge by &#36655;&#20314;&#23416;. (&#26126;&#20154;&#22909;&#21051;&#21476;&#26360;&#32780;&#21476;&#26360;&#20129
> Taken back lots of land and defeated Mongolia and &#28310;&#22134;&#29246;.
> 
> If there wasn't Qing Dynasty, China would have become a "Later Yuan" created by &#28310;&#22134;&#29246; or a second India.



And yet they have serfs(or slaves?) within their eight banners.
And yet they dont even know what is exploding arrows.
And yet they lost their own ancestors land.

If there wasn't manchu Qing Dynasty, China would not have a hairstyle called "pigtail". 

Tell you what? Not just the Han Chinese were force to shave a pigtail, all minorities previously under Ming China rule were force to shave a pigtail, talk about cultural genocide.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> What kind of logic is this? Oh I get it, internet keybord warriors logic, whereby a country "greatnest" and "power" are evaluated solely based on how many land they conquered or how many battles and wars they won or even how many wealth they amass in their treasury...hah!
> 
> For me, those are only part of the aspect I put into evaluation, there is also many other aspect, especially how they react when they face a national crisis like foreign invasion, what they do after they were defeated in battles or wars, or even after being overthrown.
> 
> Take your "Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian" for example, the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for me, it is how they react to this crisis. Tell me, did the Ming emperos bend their knees and beg the mongolian to spare their lives, with the promise of land and wealth? Did the Ming imperial court bribe the mongolians with *"some"* money and land just to get back their precious emperors? Or even they are so scare of the mongolians that they flee from the capital? Or did they just ignored the mongolians threat to kill the emperors and instead let someone else to rise to the emperor throne and thus the Ming china court administration continued as usual?
> 
> No one claims chinese histories is beautiful, please dont be a idiot. In fact China had lost countless of battles and wars in the past 5000 years, and some although won, but pay a brutal price. But hey, I did not evaluate history according to these only, and classified chinese dynasty based solely on military prowes or territory size or how many *gold* they have, just exactly like those stupid kids that only know to play computer RTS games.
> 
> And oh before you mention how bad Ming was again, I love Ming, not because she is the strongest or even the best dynasty, but the spirit of the Ming China imperial court when facing external threat. Hell I personally grade all chinese government starting from mongol Yuan till now, yes *now*, as sub par.
> 
> That reminds me manchu Qing was even more short lived than Ming China, this is a fact. Manchu Qing maybe large, but they die fast.



First of all, nobody has ever said such thing like [a country is great or not is evaluated *solely *based on how many land they conquered]. Making yourself a &#31291;&#33609;&#20154; and punch it is not a good idea. Who is really the owner of the "internet keybord warriors logic" now. Also even evaluate the 2 dynasties with $$ and territory only, Qing is still better than Ming. 

Not a big deal for YOU you say. Who do you think you are, emperor of China? And yes they did 'spend' some money to get back their emperor. Also they did fight back the Mongolian that time. Well, speaking of bending knees and begging. The Emperor of Ming did security manage to commit peace contract to Manchurian, but the action was discovered and the emperor even blamed his envoy and killed him. The emperor even try to escape from the capital by dressing up but was recognized and sent back to his home. Besides, even though there was a serious issue of the Qing invasion, the southern Ming armies never hesitated commit massacres to their own people. 
Also why didn't Ming sign that much contract as Qing did, because "contract" is not that popular back in those day. Ming didn't "sell" its land, they just "gave" them away. Best Dynasty you say, the spirit you say.



Wholegrain said:


> The Ming never praised the Spanish for massacring anyone.Also the Ming defeated the Portuguese in 1521 and 1522 at Tamao and the Dutch in the 1620s in the Pescadores. The Ming did not loose Yuan territory because they never owned it. The Ming took China back by force from the Yuan to reconquer inner Mongolia and Primorsky Krai and sacked the Yuan capital as far north as Karakorum.



Yes they did.
The Ming emperor even called those who killed by those Spanish &#36068;&#25142; and &#28961;&#36084;.
It was all recorded in &#26126;&#21490;.


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## Wholegrain

KirovAirship said:


> First of all, nobody has ever said such thing like [a country is great or not is evaluated *solely *based on how many land they conquered]. Making yourself a &#31291;&#33609;&#20154; and punch it is not a good idea. Who is really the owner of the "internet keybord warriors logic" now. Also even evaluate the 2 dynasties with $$ and territory only, Qing is still better than Ming.
> 
> Not a big deal for YOU you say. Who do you think you are, emperor of China? And yes they did 'spend' some money to get back their emperor. Also they did fight back the Mongolian that time. Well, speaking of bending knees and begging. The Emperor of Ming did security manage to commit peace contract to Manchurian, but the action was discovered and the emperor even blamed his envoy and killed him. The emperor even try to escape from the capital by dressing up but was recognized and sent back to his home. Besides, even though there was a serious issue of the Qing invasion, the southern Ming armies never hesitated commit massacres to their own people.
> Also why didn't Ming sign that much contract as Qing did, because "contract" is not that popular back in those day. Ming didn't "sell" its land, they just "gave" them away. Best Dynasty you say, the spirit you say.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes they did.
> The Ming emperor even called those who killed by those Spanish &#36068;&#25142; and &#28961;&#36084;.
> It was all recorded in &#26126;&#21490;.



Did you know what the Qing said about the 1740 massacre of Chinese by the Dutch in Batavia?


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> And yet they have serfs(or slaves?) within their eight banners.
> And yet they dont even know what is exploding arrows.
> And yet they lost their own ancestors land.
> 
> If there wasn't manchu Qing Dynasty, China would not have a hairstyle called "pigtail".
> 
> Tell you what? Not just the Han Chinese were force to shave a pigtail, all minorities previously under Ming China rule were force to shave a pigtail, talk about cultural genocide.



What if I told you &#21253;&#34915; is not as same as slave and A &#21253;&#34915; can even have a better job or a higher title than his master.
What if I told you the equipment rate of firearms in Qing army is higher than Ming's.
Did they?

Firstly, not all minorities had to follow the hairstyle, such as Tibetan.
Secondly, if changing hairstyle means 'cultural genocide', then such culture is too low-class and has to be eliminated.
Thirdly, according to my &#23478;&#35676;, my ancestors were from the &#21830; Dynasty. &#21830; people were forced to wear &#21253;&#23376;&#38957; and "YY Clothing" as &#21608; people did. Cultural genocide you say.



Wholegrain said:


> Did you know what the Qing said about the 1740 massacre of Chinese by the Dutch in Batavia?



Almost the same thing. Of course I know the history.


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> First of all, nobody has ever said such thing like [a country is great or not is evaluated *solely *based on how many land they conquered]. Making yourself a &#31291;&#33609;&#20154; and punch it is not a good idea. Who is really the owner of the "internet keybord warriors logic" now. Also even evaluate the 2 dynasties with $$ and territory only, Qing is still better than Ming.
> 
> Not a big deal for YOU you say. Who do you think you are, emperor of China? And yes they did 'spend' some money to get back their emperor. Also they did fight back the Mongolian that time. Well, speaking of bending knees and begging. The Emperor of Ming did security manage to commit peace contract to Manchurian, but the action was discovered and the emperor even blamed his envoy and killed him. The emperor even try to escape from the capital by dressing up but was recognized and sent back to his home. Besides, even though there was a serious issue of the Qing invasion, the southern Ming armies never hesitated commit massacres to their own people.
> Also why didn't Ming sign that much contract as Qing did, because "contract" is not that popular back in those day. Ming didn't "sell" its land, they just "gave" them away. Best Dynasty you say, the spirit you say.



You are the one who is punching a strawman here, I never claim Ming China as the best, its the spirit of the Ming China imperial court against external threat that I like. And no they didnt spend some money to get back their emperor, because *that guy is no longer an emperor*. Again, evaluate the chinese dynasties with $$ and territory only, are what kids that love to play RTS games often do, since they are so idiot that they can only evaluate history based solely on something that can *"measure"*.

Before you clearly mention whose emperor of Ming that try to "gave" land out, so that I and OP can verify the sources, I will tell you, what the Emperor decide only will not represent the whole China! This is the reason why I love Ming China, because they can just ignored the captured emperor and instead support another guy as emperor immediately. This is the true loyalty "&#24544;" describe in Confucianism "people is the most important, follow by country, and the last is the leader(in this case the emperor)" &#8220;&#27665;&#20026;&#36149;&#65292;&#31038;&#31287;&#27425;&#20043;&#65292;&#21531;&#20026;&#36731;&#8221;&#12290; If the imperial court freak themselves up, insisting to get back their captured emperor back as 1st priority, claiming it to be "loyal", then I will be displeased.

Who do I think I am? I am a Chinese, one of the 1.3 billion Chinese that *owns* China, so why no big deal just to voice out my opinion?

I just give you one simple example of how I view the late manchu Qing in different "if"--
If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.
If puyi and his die hard followers spend rest of their lifetime as ordinary, well behave civilians, then too bad manchu Qing.
If puyi and his die hard followers cant let go their power, and team up with japanese to invade china, just to grab back the emperor throne, then *GO FVCK YOURSELF YOU MONGRELS!!!*

Guess which is the true fact of history? 
PS. Its those followers of his, those Han traitors, that I hate the most.


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> What if I told you &#21253;&#34915; is not as same as slave and A &#21253;&#34915; can even have a better job or a higher title than his master.
> What if I told you the equipment rate of firearms in Qing army is higher than Ming's.
> Did they?
> 
> Firstly, not all minorities had to follow the hairstyle, such as Tibetan.
> Secondly, if changing hairstyle means 'cultural genocide', then such culture is too low-class and has to be eliminated.
> Thirdly, according to my &#23478;&#35676;, my ancestors were from the &#21830; Dynasty. &#21830; people were forced to wear &#21253;&#23376;&#38957; and "YY Clothing" as &#21608; people did. Cultural genocide you say.



I told you already, all minorities previously *under Ming China rule* were force to shave a pigtail. Try guess why 

*If* *only* its just changing hairstyle... but sadly its * THE FVCKING MANCHUS FORCE EVERY PEOPLE ONCE RULED BY MING CHINA TO CHANGE IN TO THAT PIGTAIL HAIRSTYLE. THOSE DISOBEY WERE EXECUTED WITHOUT TRIAL, NO EXCEPTION ALLOWED, IS CULTURAL GENOCIDE.* 

You know what, my ancestral records points my family roots up to Yan Emperor &#28814;&#24093;, and we have proto-hanfu(&#20132;&#39046;&#65292;&#21491;&#34941 records in it. Hanfu style was consolidated over the years during Shang, and by Zhou it was standardize. Where is your Shang ancestors lived? There are tons of barbarian tribes join Zhou over the years, Chu and Qin are the prime examples of these barbarian states try so hard just to be recognized by the Zhou TianZi as his vassals and as a legitimate HuaXia feudal lords.


----------



## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> You are the one who is punching a strawman here, I never claim Ming China as the best, its the spirit of the Ming China imperial court against external threat that I like. And no they didnt spend some money to get back their emperor, because *that guy is no longer an emperor*. Again, evaluate the chinese dynasties with $$ and territory only, are what kids that love to play RTS games often do, since they are so idiot that they can only evaluate history based solely on something that can *"measure"*.
> 
> Before you clearly mention whose emperor of Ming that try to "gave" land out, so that I and OP can verify the sources, I will tell you, what the Emperor decide only will not represent the whole China! This is the reason why I love Ming China, because they can just ignored the captured emperor and instead support another guy as emperor immediately. This is the true loyalty "&#24544;" describe in Confucianism "people is the most important, follow by country, and the last is the leader(in this case the emperor)" &#8220;&#27665;&#20026;&#36149;&#65292;&#31038;&#31287;&#27425;&#20043;&#65292;&#21531;&#20026;&#36731;&#8221;&#12290; If the imperial court freak themselves up, insisting to get back their captured emperor back as 1st priority, claiming it to be "loyal", then I will be displeased.
> 
> Who do I think I am? I am a Chinese, one of the 1.3 billion Chinese that *owns* China, so why no big deal just to voice out my opinion?
> 
> I just give you one simple example of how I view the late manchu Qing in different "if"--
> If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.
> If puyi and his die hard followers spend rest of their lifetime as ordinary, well behave civilians, then too bad manchu Qing.
> If puyi and his die hard followers cant let go their power, and team up with japanese to invade china, just to grab back the emperor throne, then *GO FVCK YOURSELF YOU MONGRELS!!!*
> 
> Guess which is the true fact of history?
> PS. Its those followers of his, those Han traitors, that I hate the most.



I can see that someone not only like to punch his strawman, but also like to &#23565;&#34399;&#20837;&#24231;. Who ever said that you claim Ming as the best. Also somebody's logic is really hurting my head. I have mentioned before, I am mentioning it again: _One picks up the factors of land and $$ as a comparison of two dynasties doesn't mean that he only cares about these factors nor he think these factors are the only way to judge and criticize the history_
"I think this car is better, because it is big enough and more comfortable and effective than the other one."
"You think you are playing RTS games??? You can't evaluate them with only blah blah blah..."
"Daheck is RTS games?"
The fact that you cannot deny is: 
Ming Dynasty's territory in its heyday is still much smaller than the dying Qing.
The foreign trade turnover of Qing is 10 times more than Ming. 

True loyalty you say, well that was interesting. Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those Mongolian crushed to the capital city. People were indeed '&#36020;', the Ming government even sent its troops to catch/kill beggars &#27969;&#27665; and &#36068;&#25142; since they were nothing but waste to them. Not to mention the southern Ming armies love to kill their own citizens for resources and $$. They even slandered those innocents they have killed as thief in order to get pay from their leaders. 

I wonder how could you not know that, you love Ming that much don't you. 
The first emperor gave away the territory of the north part of Korean Peninsula, which was China's territory since Han Dynasty, to Korean. Also what happened to Tibet, West-North territory, Yunnan and the others. Just take a look of [&#26126;&#21490;] and Korean [&#26446;&#26397;&#23542;&#37636;]. 

I was judging your words [the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for ME]. How could you think that _if you think it was a big deal to YOU or not_ is a big deal to this topic and to the history, Mr.Emperor? 


Funny how people love to judge Qing Dynasty by evaluating *that guy who is no longer an emperor* of Qing. Puyi was a kid when the Empire is overthrown. You ask a kid to kill himself? 
Most of the members of royal family were good behaved, they have been working hard to protect their country from foreigners such as Japanese. Puyi was not supported by them.
Save your aggressive language to elsewhere, none of the members in this forum support Puyi (except for that Vietnamese guy gave you a like). 

Oh yes I do hate Han traitors too~ especially those clothing worshiper who give away our history and support the nonsense (indirectly) from Dala Lama, Rebiya Kadeer, President Lee and other anti-China powers~


----------



## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> I told you already, all minorities previously *under Ming China rule* were force to shave a pigtail. Try guess why
> 
> *If* *only* its just changing hairstyle... but sadly its * THE FVCKING MANCHUS FORCE EVERY PEOPLE ONCE RULED BY MING CHINA TO CHANGE IN TO THAT PIGTAIL HAIRSTYLE. THOSE DISOBEY WERE EXECUTED WITHOUT TRIAL, NO EXCEPTION ALLOWED, IS CULTURAL GENOCIDE.*
> 
> You know what, my ancestral records points my family roots up to Yan Emperor &#28814;&#24093;, and we have proto-hanfu(&#20132;&#39046;&#65292;&#21491;&#34941 records in it. Hanfu style was consolidated over the years during Shang, and by Zhou it was standardize. Where is your Shang ancestors lived? There are tons of barbarian tribes join Zhou over the years, Chu and Qin are the prime examples of these barbarian states try so hard just to be recognized by the Zhou TianZi as his vassals and as a legitimate HuaXia feudal lords.



I though Ming China used to rule Tibet and part of the West-North~?
Why? Why &#21608;&#20154; had to force &#21830;&#20154; to wear their hairstyle, the reason is so obvious isn't it.
The action of changing Han people's (and the others) was a bad decision and it was indeed an atrocity, but a cultural genocide? Come on, as I have mentioned, if the hairstyle was changed means cultural genocide to Chinese culture in your opinion, then such culture is so inferior and have the right to be destroyed. 
By the way, there were several southern minorities of China were massacred during the dynasty before Qing. Their languages were eliminated and the were forced to follow the so-called "Han-fu" style. Some of them even met the coincidence of genocide. Now that is really cultural genocide.

I can't even believe all the Shang story from my &#23478;&#35676; (they say 90% of the &#23478;&#35676; family history book before Ming Dynasty are not to be trusted), how could yours roots up to Yan Emperor &#28814;&#24093;. 
The fact is that you are completely wrong with the knowledge of the so-called Hanfu. The dynasty of &#19977;&#30343;&#20116;&#24093; was not even an origin of 'Hanfu', 'hanfu' was originally from &#21608; and &#21608; was barbarian to &#21830; in no doubt. &#21830;&#20154;&#23578;&#30333;&#31364;&#34966;&#20197;&#21450;&#23815;&#23578;&#32098;&#40599;&#30340;&#33394;&#24425;&#21644;&#33457;&#32011;, &#28961;&#20998;&#25152;&#35586;&#24038;&#21491;&#34941;, &#39662;&#22411;&#28858;&#39649;&#39662;&#33988;&#36782; (pigtail). Kuanpao, big sleeves and Chui Ji were from &#21608; people~

Oh and about my family~
According to the family tree~ They were spread throughout the &#31070;&#24030; after the &#21830; was conquered by &#21608; and were mainly living in &#20013;&#23665;&#27827;&#33539;&#38525; during Qin and Han Dynasty.


----------



## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> I can see that someone not only like to punch his strawman, but also like to &#23565;&#34399;&#20837;&#24231;. Who ever said that you claim Ming as the best. Also somebody's logic is really hurting my head. I have mentioned before, I am mentioning it again: _One picks up the factors of land and $$ as a comparison of two dynasties doesn't mean that he only cares about these factors nor he think these factors are the only way to judge and criticize the history_
> "I think this car is better, because it is big enough and more comfortable and effective than the other one."
> "You think you are playing RTS games??? You can't evaluate them with only blah blah blah..."
> "Daheck is RTS games?"
> The fact that you cannot deny is:
> Ming Dynasty's territory in its heyday is still much smaller than the dying Qing.
> The foreign trade turnover of Qing is 10 times more than Ming.
> 
> True loyalty you say, well that was interesting. Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those Mongolian crushed to the capital city. People were indeed '&#36020;', the Ming government even sent its troops to catch/kill beggars &#27969;&#27665; and &#36068;&#25142; since they were nothing but waste to them. Not to mention the southern Ming armies love to kill their own citizens for resources and $$. They even slandered those innocents they have killed as thief in order to get pay from their leaders.
> 
> I wonder how could you not know that, you love Ming that much don't you.
> The first emperor gave away the territory of the north part of Korean Peninsula, which was China's territory since Han Dynasty, to Korean. Also what happened to Tibet, West-North territory, Yunnan and the others. Just take a look of [&#26126;&#21490;] and Korean [&#26446;&#26397;&#23542;&#37636;].
> 
> I was judging your words [the fact emperors being captured is not that a big deal for ME]. How could you think that _if you think it was a big deal to YOU or not_ is a big deal to this topic and to the history, Mr.Emperor?
> 
> 
> Funny how people love to judge Qing Dynasty by evaluating *that guy who is no longer an emperor* of Qing. Puyi was a kid when the Empire is overthrown. You ask a kid to kill himself?
> Most of the members of royal family were good behaved, they have been working hard to protect their country from foreigners such as Japanese. Puyi was not supported by them.
> Save your aggressive language to elsewhere, none of the members in this forum support Puyi (except for that Vietnamese guy gave you a like).
> 
> Oh yes I do hate Han traitors too~ especially those clothing worshiper who give away our history and support the nonsense (indirectly) from Dala Lama, Rebiya Kadeer, President Lee and other anti-China powers~



"Best Dynasty you say" is what you say in previous post...

So smaller=worthless hmm? Less trade= worthless hmm? No wonder many chinese kids always wonder why "large" manchu Qing lost to tiny Japan, because its number comparison game logic right?

"Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those foreigners crushed to the capital city." This is what happened to manchu Qing since Opium war, non-stop epic fail. And dont let me start mention mordern chinese "glorious" battle tale.

Ming China gave away land to others? I will told you again, they never inherit any land from anybody, because the land inheritance right among Han Chinese dynasty was broken during mongol Yuan, thats is one of the main reason I rank all government starting from mongol Yuan as subpar.

Source is Korean and a history book heavily distort by manchu Qing? Acording to Korean, Your whole Family are KOREAN!

I judge that piece of fact solely based on how the government and people of thet history period view the emperor, as that is part of the most important data to show the evolution of absolute monarchy to either constitutional monarchy or constitutional republic.

Which word I said I want that brain dead kid to die? dont punch the strawman here please. In my list of options I do give him a chance to live a normal life you know, too bad he doesnt, so FVCK MONGRELS!
Of course that guy is no longer an emperor, but he WANTS IT BACK REGARDLESS OF THE PEOPLE WILLINGESS. If that Captured Ming China emperor come back to China and lead an army to get back his throne, I will also say *go die you a$$hole!*

So what if a vietnamese guy gave me thanks? Its not me who command him to give me thanks, so please dont be an idiot and talk nonsense.

HAHAHA!!!  Tell you what? Among those "clothing worshiper" you mention, they are actually consist many minorities! Thats why I told you go check out HanFu tieba, there are many minorities there you know? I personally know a manchu girl who participate HanFu activity, and one of my maternal relative who is a zhuang actually being influence by me and start "worshipping Hanfu".


----------



## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> I though Ming China used to rule Tibet and part of the West-North~?
> Why? Why &#21608;&#20154; had to force &#21830;&#20154; to wear their hairstyle, the reason is so obvious isn't it.
> The action of changing Han people's (and the others) was a bad decision and it was indeed an atrocity, but a cultural genocide? Come on, as I have mentioned, if the hairstyle was changed means cultural genocide to Chinese culture in your opinion, then such culture is so inferior and have the right to be destroyed.
> By the way, there were several southern minorities of China were massacred during the dynasty before Qing. Their languages were eliminated and the were forced to follow the so-called "Han-fu" style. Some of them even met the coincidence of genocide. Now that is really cultural genocide.
> 
> I can't even believe all the Shang story from my &#23478;&#35676; (they say 90% of the &#23478;&#35676; family history book before Ming Dynasty are not to be trusted), how could yours roots up to Yan Emperor &#28814;&#24093;.
> The fact is that you are completely wrong with the knowledge of the so-called Hanfu. The dynasty of &#19977;&#30343;&#20116;&#24093; was not even an origin of 'Hanfu', 'hanfu' was originally from &#21608; and &#21608; was barbarian to &#21830; in no doubt. &#21830;&#20154;&#23578;&#30333;&#31364;&#34966;&#20197;&#21450;&#23815;&#23578;&#32098;&#40599;&#30340;&#33394;&#24425;&#21644;&#33457;&#32011;, &#28961;&#20998;&#25152;&#35586;&#24038;&#21491;&#34941;, &#39662;&#22411;&#28858;&#39649;&#39662;&#33988;&#36782; (pigtail). Kuanpao, big sleeves and Chui Ji were from &#21608; people~
> 
> Oh and about my family~
> According to the family tree~ They were spread throughout the &#31070;&#24030; after the &#21830; was conquered by &#21608; and were mainly living in &#20013;&#23665;&#27827;&#33539;&#38525; during Qin and Han Dynasty.



Tell me more about Shang hairstyle, I am curious, maybe you can revive it cant you?
Aparently you are a cultural darwinism preacher. Sorry mate I think we are completely different in the view of culture, I think we should agree to disagree, and I hope you wont get in the way of people that were trying hard to revive a near extinct traditional culture. Of course we wont force you to wear HanFu, we are not barbarians manchu Qing, you can still wear what you want.

Come on, I told you already, force change=/=voluntary change, guess which is cultural genocide? Also genocide=/=cultural genocide.
Tell me which "southern minorities" that you mention, but I do know a lot of minorities in the past WISH TO wear HanFu to the point of OBSESSION, prime examples are the minorities during &#20116;&#32993;&#20081;&#21326; period.

There are actually more aspect to pinpoint your ancestry other than ancestral records, such as your ancestor hometown location, your surname etc. My confidence on my root are the combine of all these aspects.
Oh fun fact of the day, my family earliest ancestral record was originally a HanFu wore by one of my ancestor. After he died the other use the deceased cloths as a record medium, and that was a period around Shang, thats how I know my roots and HanFu roots. 

You can curse the Zhou all you want, but that wont do any good to your ancestor lost culture. Why dont you learn from us, and start wear your ancestor cloths and shave a pigtail, and maintain these clothing and hairstyle in your everyday life? We traditonal culture restorer welcome it very much, because we too are doing the same. Our goal is to bring back lost culture to the surface of the Earth again.


----------



## Kolaps

KirovAirship said:


> What kind of logic is it. Myanmar had conquered a lot of land from Ming and Qing has replaced the whole middle-land. Were they considered as the greatest countries in the world as well.
> 
> And Tang Dynasty beg for reinforcements from foreigners, Song was bullied by Jing, Ming emperors was captured by Mongolian, praised the Spanish for committing massacre to oversea Chinese and beg for foreigners to deal with Manchurian barbarians. You really think that Chinese history is as beautiful as your imagination? Please don't be silly.
> 
> Ming was dealing with European security guards, they were not even regular army. It would be a awful shame if they can't even handle such "minatory".
> 
> Ah, the Manchukuo, I always love people start with this topic so that I can bring up the millions of &#30343;&#21332;&#36557;, Chairman Wang and even President Chen & Lee on the table. While Manchurian people such as &#38515;&#32752;&#31456;, &#20319;&#40607;&#38307;, &#21555;&#20811;&#20161;, &#38364;&#21521;&#25033;, &#21776;&#32858;&#20116;, &#36249;&#25215;&#37329; etc were fighting against the Japanese. Also even have you heard about the [&#26481;&#21271;&#27665;&#30526;&#33258;&#34907;&#36557;]?
> 
> That reminds me Ming Dynasty was even being extinguished earlier than 'Northern Yuan'. Ming lost most of the territory gained from Yuan to China, this is a fact. Yet Qing have taken back Tibet, '&#22823;&#35199;&#21271;' and the other lands.



That kind of mentality that actually ruined China into a nation of garbage.

We heard it all the time, for the last 100 years. In 1989, Beijing students even want to sold out entire China to foreigners. Remember noble peace prize winner, Liu Xiaobo! It's not just him alone, a lot of Chinese like him.

Under the state propaganda to destroy Chinese civilization reputation, a small group of Han Chinese rebelled against it, it's something that we should appreciated.

Tibetan people is more proud to Tibetan culture than Han Chinese to their own. Even Japanese people is more proud to the original Chinese culture, than the so called original-owner, Han Chinese. This is the fact.


I think, win or lose, it just a matter of preparation. A well prepared small kingdom or even a peasant rebel, can defeat unprepared empire.

But overall, Chinese civilization is among world best and greatest.




KirovAirship said:


> The Qing Dynasty has freed those &#36068;&#25142; who have been killing by the Ming Dynasty.
> Restored ancient Chinese knowledge by &#36655;&#20314;&#23416;. (&#26126;&#20154;&#22909;&#21051;&#21476;&#26360;&#32780;&#21476;&#26360;&#20129
> Taken back lots of land and defeated Mongolia and &#28310;&#22134;&#29246;.
> 
> If there wasn't Qing Dynasty, China would have become a "Later Yuan" created by &#28310;&#22134;&#29246; or a second India.



It's true that Qing had a huge contribution to make China today.

I can say, we gained and lost a lot of things too.

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## asad71

Wholegrain said:


> India flooded the Andaman islands with migrants from India and swamped the native negritos. Japan also flooded Hokkaido with Japanese migrants and did not even recognize the native Ainu as indigeneous until recently.
> 
> India is doing virtually nothing to stop the negritos from going extinct. They even treated them like zoo animals and had "sexual relations" aka raped their women.
> 
> Jarawa's survival threatened by habitat loss, sexual exploitation | News | Human rights
> 
> 'Human safari' fears as Andaman Islands road reopens - Telegraph
> 
> Human safaris may be banned, but still tourists flock to Andaman Islands | World news | The Observer
> 
> This news was all over the British media (the guardian and telegraph) but we didn't hear anything from the American media nor any condemnation of India from western governments.
> 
> The Andaman islands were never under the control of an Indian empire. The British took it over and passed it on to India.



1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.

2. Sukarno used to say that A-P should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.

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## Ayush

asad71 said:


> 1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.
> 
> 2.* Sukarno* used to say that A-P should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.



who sukarno??


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## chhota bheem

asad71 said:


> 1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.
> 
> 2. Sukarno used to say that A-P should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.



Is this thread about India.


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## Ayush

asad71 said:


> 1.Even at Partition 1947, Pakistan's founding leaders had neglected the eastern wing. Otherwise Arakan, Andaman-Nicoabr and Tripura would have been ours.
> 
> 2. Sukarno used to say that* A-P* should be part of Indonesia or (E) Pakistan. There was no justification in attaching this to India.



which AP u talkin about??


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> "Best Dynasty you say" is what you say in previous post...



Am I talking to myself with 2 accounts all of the time.
[...I tell you what, I love Ming, not because she is the strongest or even the best dynasty...]




> So smaller=worthless hmm? Less trade= worthless hmm? No wonder many chinese kids always wonder why "large" manchu Qing lost to tiny Japan, because its number comparison game logic right?



Again, that's your logic, not mine. 
Two factors are not enough to judge, so I also take another factors such as economy, the lifestyle of the people and the government (rulers), which were all better than the dynasty before them. 



> "Sending hundreds thousand of its people to battle for no good reason and with no good planning, let them get killed and let those foreigners crushed to the capital city." This is what happened to manchu Qing since Opium war, non-stop epic fail. And dont let me start mention mordern chinese "glorious" battle tale.



I supposed you are talking about the old woman am I right~ Oh yes what a shame isn't it, just like what also happened in Ming Dynasty. 



> Ming China gave away land to others? I will told you again, they never inherit any land from anybody, because the land inheritance right among Han Chinese dynasty was broken during mongol Yuan, thats is one of the main reason I rank all government starting from mongol Yuan as subpar.


Those lands that taken/given by foreigners such as Myanmar, Korea and other nations were either traditional China's territory or ruled by Ming government. That's no excuse within this issue~
Besides, what if I told you that even in Yuan there were Mongolian slaves and Han people can apply a well job in government which can be better than the others. 



> Source is Korean and a history book heavily distort by manchu Qing? Acording to Korean, Your whole Family are KOREAN!



The &#26126;&#21490; tells you that Ming Dynasty is "much better than Han and Tang" and all of the Ming Emperors were all hard-working, well-behaved, professional leaders, indeed it was heavily distorted by Qing~ 
Did they~ show me the source than~ By the way, should I trust a book which is recognized as one of the best/ most detailed history book of China written by later Ming officers, or should I just need to believe in someone's imagination?



> I judge that piece of fact solely based on how the government and people of thet history period view the emperor, as that is part of the most important data to show the evolution of absolute monarchy to either constitutional monarchy or constitutional republic.



Except for those under the protection of Qing, most of the other thousands of Ming royal family members were killed/eaten by its people. People surly loves their leaders. 



> Which word I said I want that brain dead kid to die? dont punch the strawman here please. In my list of options I do give him a chance to live a normal life you know, too bad he doesnt, so FVCK MONGRELS!
> Of course that guy is no longer an emperor, but he WANTS IT BACK REGARDLESS OF THE PEOPLE WILLINGESS. If that Captured Ming China emperor come back to China and lead an army to get back his throne, I will also say *go die you a$$hole!*



[If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.]
Here, take the strawman back. 
Oh yes he wanted to take back his power, but as an emperor of Manchukao, not Qing Dynasty. So why would you take his action to blame Qing Dynasty, why would you even brought such unrelated idiot into the topic. Besides his action was not even supported by must of his family and his people who were frighting the Japanese. 
As for your "go die XXX", I really love it. I always have this in my mind when I see someone worship a piece of cloth as a God and the so-called tradition. 



> So what if a vietnamese guy gave me thanks? Its not me who command him to give me thanks, so please dont be an idiot and talk nonsense.



Which words from my comment ever has the meaning of [is it you who command him to give me thanks]. That Vietnamese member always take the advantage of the so-called Manchukao to tell people how minorities in China dislike Han people and how bad Han people is. He is a supporter of the independence movement in China. That was the reason why I say he could be the only one love Puyi.
Seriously I am worry about you (part of the body). Are you all right? Oh no, you are not.



> HAHAHA!!!  Tell you what? Among those "clothing worshiper" you mention, they are actually consist many minorities! Thats why I told you go check out HanFu tieba, there are many minorities there you know? I personally know a manchu girl who participate HanFu activity, and one of my maternal relative who is a zhuang actually being influence by me and start "worshipping Hanfu".



Oh my~ there were millions of Red guards and Nazis in the history as well~ Not to mention those uncountable &#27861;&#36650;&#21151; members around the whole world, &#21453;&#20013;&#20098;&#28207;&#20221;&#23376; and other cults and independence movement supporters. Stupid people are everywhere and their number is large~

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## Wholegrain

KirovAirship said:


> Am I talking to myself with 2 accounts all of the time.
> [...I tell you what, I love Ming, not because she is the strongest or even the best dynasty...]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, that's your logic, not mine.
> Two factors are not enough to judge, so I also take another factors such as economy, the lifestyle of the people and the government (rulers), which were all better than the dynasty before them.
> 
> 
> 
> I supposed you are talking about the old woman am I right~ Oh yes what a shame isn't it, just like what also happened in Ming Dynasty.
> 
> 
> *Those lands that taken/given by foreigners such as Myanmar, Korea and other nations were either traditional China's territory or ruled by Ming government. That's no excuse within this issue~*
> Besides, what if I told you that even in Yuan there were Mongolian slaves and Han people can apply a well job in government which can be better than the others.
> 
> 
> 
> The &#26126;&#21490; tells you that Ming Dynasty is "much better than Han and Tang" and all of the Ming Emperors were all hard-working, well-behaved, professional leaders, indeed it was heavily distorted by Qing~
> Did they~ show me the source than~ By the way, should I trust a book which is recognized as one of the best/ most detailed history book of China written by later Ming officers, or should I just need to believe in someone's imagination?
> 
> 
> 
> Except for those under the protection of Qing, most of the other thousands of Ming royal family members were killed/eaten by its people. People surly loves their leaders.
> 
> 
> 
> [If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.]
> Here, take the strawman back.
> Oh yes he wanted to take back his power, but as an emperor of Manchukao, not Qing Dynasty. So why would you take his action to blame Qing Dynasty, why would you even brought such unrelated idiot into the topic. Besides his action was not even supported by must of his family and his people who were frighting the Japanese.
> As for your "go die XXX", I really love this. I already have this in my mind when I see someone worship a piece of cloth as a God and the so-called tradition.
> 
> 
> 
> Which words from my comment ever has the meaning of [is it you who command him to give me thanks]. That Vietnamese member always take the advantage of the so-called Manchukao to tell people how minorities in China dislike Han people and how bad Han people is. He is a supporter of the independence movement in China. That was the reason why I say he could be the only one love Puyi.
> Seriously I am worry about you (part of the body). Are you all right? Oh no, you are not.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my~ there were millions of Red guards and Nazis in the history as well~ Not to mention those uncountable &#27861;&#36650;&#21151; members around the whole world, &#21453;&#20013;&#20098;&#28207;&#20221;&#23376; and other cults and independence movement supporters. Stupid people are everywhere and their number is large~


 @FlowerSummer

Both of you stop the insults. The Ming dynasty went to war against Myanmar in the 1580s and won, you must be talking about the 1430s war the Ming fought against Tai chieftains on the border.

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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> Tell me more about Shang hairstyle, I am curious, maybe you can revive it cant you?
> Aparently you are a cultural darwinism preacher. Sorry mate I think we are completely different in the view of culture, I think we should agree to disagree, and I hope you wont get in the way of people that were trying hard to revive a near extinct traditional culture. Of course we wont force you to wear HanFu, we are not barbarians manchu Qing, you can still wear what you want.



If I were you, I would read more book or at least found a website that can be trusted to learn a thing or 2.
http://pic.baike.soso.com/p/20121009/20121009204017-899542506.jpg
http://image.51nacs.com/21/132/182/2008-12-8/40620CGAA9CJICB5BF.jpg

I am a person cars only 'reality', I don't really care much about intangible, shallow piece of "skin".
I don't really care if people wants to bring back the ancient clothing, in fact I was one of the supporters. But serious you people are more than a clothing lover, but worshiper. You people are a religious group more than a simple fan of traditional culture. Besides, Qing is not the only dynasty did such thing, but also Ming (to Vietnamese and other minorities). 



> Come on, I told you already, force change=/=voluntary change, guess which is cultural genocide? Also genocide=/=cultural genocide.



Actually there were both "force" and "voluntary".
The Qing dynasty forced Han people to follow Manchurian hairstyle and clothing in the begining, but then the government didn't care much about the order and let those people be in their way. If you take a look at the data and the old pictures, you can see that there were "Hanfu" and &#39340;&#25499; and the both hairstyles in the same place. And it was during the middle period of Qing. 



> Tell me which "southern minorities" that you mention, but I do know a lot of minorities in the past WISH TO wear HanFu to the point of OBSESSION, prime examples are the minorities during &#20116;&#32993;&#20081;&#21326; period.



&#30333;&#20154; and &#20720;&#20154;. 
A shame to the ancestors' peaceful way isn't it~



> There are actually more aspect to pinpoint your ancestry other than ancestral records, such as your ancestor hometown location, your surname etc. My confidence on my root are the combine of all these aspects.
> Oh fun fact of the day, my family earliest ancestral record was originally a HanFu wore by one of my ancestor. After he died the other use the deceased cloths as a record medium, and that was a period around Shang, thats how I know my roots and HanFu roots.



Oh really. I would love to see that cloth, if there is chance~



> You can curse the Zhou all you want, but that wont do any good to your ancestor lost culture. Why dont you learn from us, and start wear your ancestor cloths and shave a pigtail, and maintain these clothing and hairstyle in your everyday life? We traditonal culture restorer welcome it very much, because we too are doing the same. Our goal is to bring back lost culture to the surface of the Earth again.


[/QUOTE]

Don't you see I was just making a joke~ Why should I curse or even hate or share my love and emotion to a dead dynasty thousands year ago, that is freaking stupid. And why should I learn from you, I feel really good to be a modern citizen living in a 'modern dynasty'~ Why should I bring back those intangible, old, useless so-called traditional culture to reality. 

Oh and one more thing, &#20132;&#38936; &#38263;&#34966; is the most &#33853;&#24460; clothing style in human history.


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## Snomannen

Wholegrain said:


> @FlowerSummer
> 
> Both of you stop the insults. The Ming dynasty went to war against Myanmar in the 1580s and won, you must be talking about the 1430s war the Ming fought against Tai chieftains on the border.



They have won the war, but they did lose the land of &#20116;&#24944; from the &#19977;&#23459;&#20845;&#24944;.
Okay I think I should stop now.


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## FlowerSummer

Wholegrain said:


> @FlowerSummer
> 
> Both of you stop the insults. The Ming dynasty went to war against Myanmar in the 1580s and won, you must be talking about the 1430s war the Ming fought against Tai chieftains on the border.



OK. I was about to stop too, because clearly his view of culture is totally different from mine. Applying words like "outdated" and "worthless" to a traditional culture is clearly a culture darwinism view, which i cant stand the most. Oh well I hope one day he wont suddenly realise "Oh, why do I need to learn chinese culture? Clearly the western culture are much more "mordern" and "useful" isnt it?"


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> Am I talking to myself with 2 accounts all of the time.
> [...I tell you what, I love Ming, *not* because she is the *strongest or even the best dynasty*...]
> 
> 
> [If puyi and his die hard followers commit suicide after being overthrown, then good bye manchu Qing.]
> Here, take the strawman back.



Maybe my english is really bad, but I dont know how you can percieve that sentence as my declaration of "Ming China is the best".

So you being selective blind here huh? Where *the other two options* I post again? Or maybe you just dont know the meaning "*IF*"?


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> OK. I was about to stop too, because clearly his view of culture is totally different from mine. Applying words like "outdated" and "worthless" to a traditional culture is clearly a culture darwinism view, which i cant stand the most. Oh well I hope one day he wont suddenly realise "Oh, why do I need to learn chinese culture? Clearly the western culture are much more "mordern" and "useful" isnt it?"



You and I are both using "mordern" and "useful" western culture, what do you think that we are using to communicate.


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> Maybe my english is really bad, but I dont know how you can percieve that sentence as my declaration of "Ming China is the best".
> 
> So you being selective blind here huh? Where *the other two options* I post again? Or maybe you just dont know the meaning "*IF*"?



Oh I though there is a "only" between 'not' and 'because'.

You have the "idea" of that kid committed suicide. How could you even put a IF and think of the possibility about a kid killing himself.


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## Sasquatch

@KirovAirship and @FlowerSummer quit insulting each other, stick to the topic. You been warned.

And stop using Chinese, new rules.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/announcements/268361-stick-english-please.html

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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> You and I are both using "mordern" and "useful" western culture, what do you think that we are using to communicate.



I only use western tools, not culture. Tools=/=culture. Maybe that is the reason why my english is not good. But hey I am fine with it, because its not part of my culture.


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> Oh I though there is a "only" between 'not' and 'because'.
> 
> You have the "idea" of that kid committed suicide. How could you even put a IF and think of the possibility about a kid killing himself.



So you *DO* *talking with yourself all the time* and punching a *BIG strawman*.

Because I rather want him die with *dignity*, so that he wont turn out what he become in the real history, which is *a complete clown and a joke*.


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## Snomannen

FlowerSummer said:


> I only use western tools, not culture. Tools=/=culture. Maybe that is the reason why my english is not good. But hey I am fine with it, because its not part of my culture.



Tell me the difference between 'tools' and 'culture'.



> So you DO talking with yourself all the time and punching a BIG strawman.
> 
> Because I rather want him die with dignity, so that he wont turn out what he become in the real history, which is a complete clown and a joke.



And seems like we both have punched a strawman.


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## FlowerSummer

KirovAirship said:


> Tell me the difference between 'tools' and 'culture'.
> 
> 
> 
> And seems like we both have punched a strawman.



For me, tools are result oriented, while culture is process oriented.

For me, tools are used to do the job. As long as it still works as what I expected it to works, I am fine with it, and I wont waste my time to fix it or improve it, even it appears to be a bit rusty.

For me, culture are an integrated part of my life. As long as I am still alive, I will continue to improve my self in that particular culture I take a liking. Although the end result also very important, but I will enjoy the process more than the result, or most likely, it will never end so it wont have a definitive result.

For me, the learning process on how to use a tool ended when I get recognition on my achievement eg.certificate, while I will work even harder when I recieve recognition on my achievement on my culture practice, it will only end when I die.

I cant really convey precisely to you, but I hope you understand my view.

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## nalan

You cannot cut off process from result by your logic.I cannot speak,read english,so i havent "culture " in english


FlowerSummer said:


> For me, tools are result oriented, while culture is process oriented.
> 
> For me, tools are used to do the job. As long as it still works as what I expected it to works, I am fine with it, and I wont waste my time to fix it or improve it, even it appears to be a bit rusty.
> 
> For me, culture are an integrated part of my life. As long as I am still alive, I will continue to improve my self in that particular culture I take a liking. Although the end result also very important, but I will enjoy the process more than the result, or most likely, it will never end so it wont have a definitive result.
> 
> For me, the learning process on how to use a tool ended when I get recognition on my achievement eg.certificate, while I will work even harder when I recieve recognition on my achievement on my culture practice, it will only end when I die.
> 
> I cant really convey precisely to you, but I hope you understand my view.


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## FlowerSummer

nalan said:


> You cannot cut off process from result by your logic.I cannot speak,read english,so i havent "culture " in english



No you misunderstand my words, result oriented doesnt mean there are no process nor the process is being cut out. It just simply means I dont care much about the process, as long as it dont cause me trouble, and as long as I yield the result I wanted.

Take the example of breathing, most people dont give a damn how they breath(process), as long as they dont smell in something bad, and they dont suffocate(result). But for the Chi Kung practisers, the breathing process is actually very important, and they enjoy the process and result of practising Chi Kung. Thats why Chi Kung is a culture, while breathing is a tool, although for someone who cannot differentiate between culture and tool, both appear to be the same.

Listen, before you give me your precious comment about how enjoying the process of breathing is "crazy", "outdated", "worthless", "futile", "inefficient", "wasted of time and effort", "unscientific" etc, I can tell you, culture is not something that can be brand with such "tags". The moment you start branding culture in these tags, the world in your point of view will be full of tools, not culture.

The sad thing is, most of the chinese today are actually living in a world full of tools, in their point of view, of course. Yet what makes thing worse is they actually think they are all cultured and civilized, but in reality they have none. *They are not "cultured" at all*, because they only treat these things as tools, not culture.

Take my experience as a HanFu restoration member, we are always being attack by people who claim how pigtail is the best, how manchu Qing was the best, how bad HanFu is and how bad Ming China was. But in reality these people do not love pigtail and manchu Qing at all, because they do not treat pigtail as a culture, *they did not have the balls to shave a pigtail and go outdoor in the broad day light*. Hell, *most of these "pigtail supporter" actually hate pigtail and manchu Qing to the core*. They only use pigtail as tools to try to eradicate us, *to try to destroy one of the most important culture in chinese history*, a traditional culture we treat as a culture, not a mere tool, because we do not just wear HanFu solely for snapshot shows, we do not just wear HanFu solely for fashion shows either. Many of us wear HanFu for both indoor activities as well as outdoor activities, both traditional festivals and ceremonies. Some of us even *try to integrate HanFu in our everyday life*, starting by wearing HanFu to attend non traditional festivals and ceremonies, to wildlife camping, to nature walk, even during travel as a tourist. This is actually how we should treat a culture, *how we try to restore a culture once lost*.


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## nalan

I donot want to argue the stupid quester which dynasty is good.I just point that tool is one of the manifestation of culture .The knowledge,experience to how to use tool,how to work with tool is key " culture".you cannt get the result without the expression process.you cannot fly airplane just like drive car.you cannot creat a classic chinese poem in english.


FlowerSummer said:


> No you misunderstand my words, result oriented doesnt mean there are no process nor the process is being cut out. It just simply means I dont care much about the process, as long as it dont cause me trouble, and as long as I yield the result I wanted.
> 
> Take the example of breathing, most people dont give a damn how they breath(process), as long as they dont smell in something bad, and they dont suffocate(result). But for the Chi Kung practisers, the breathing process is actually very important, and they enjoy the process and result of practising Chi Kung. Thats why Chi Kung is a culture, while breathing is a tool, although for someone who cannot differentiate between culture and tool, both appear to be the same.
> 
> Listen, before you give me your precious comment about how enjoying the process of breathing is "crazy", "outdated", "worthless", "futile", "inefficient", "wasted of time and effort", "unscientific" etc, I can tell you, culture is not something that can be brand with such "tags". The moment you start branding culture in these tags, the world in your point of view will be full of tools, not culture.
> 
> The sad thing is, most of the chinese today are actually living in a world full of tools, in their point of view, of course. Yet what makes thing worse is they actually think they are all cultured and civilized, but in reality they have none. *They are not "cultured" at all*, because they only treat these things as tools, not culture.
> 
> Take my experience as a HanFu restoration member, we are always being attack by people who claim how pigtail is the best, how manchu Qing was the best, how bad HanFu is and how bad Ming China was. But in reality these people do not love pigtail and manchu Qing at all, because they do not treat pigtail as a culture, *they did not have the balls to shave a pigtail and go outdoor in the broad day light*. Hell, *most of these "pigtail supporter" actually hate pigtail and manchu Qing to the core*. They only use pigtail as tools to try to eradicate us, *to try to destroy one of the most important culture in chinese history*, a traditional culture we treat as a culture, not a mere tool, because we do not just wear HanFu solely for snapshot shows, we do not just wear HanFu solely for fashion shows either. Many of us wear HanFu for both indoor activities as well as outdoor activities, both traditional festivals and ceremonies. Some of us even *try to integrate HanFu in our everyday life*, starting by wearing HanFu to attend non traditional festivals and ceremonies, to wildlife camping, to nature walk, even during travel as a tourist. This is actually how we should treat a culture, *how we try to restore a culture once lost*.


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## FlowerSummer

nalan said:


> I donot want to argue the stupid quester which dynasty is good.I just point that tool is one of the manifestation of culture .The knowledge,experience to how to use tool,how to work with tool is key " culture".you cannt get the result without the expression process.you cannot fly airplane just like drive car.you cannot creat a classic chinese poem in english.



I am not trying to argue history with you... Seriously what i am telling you is how I view culture apart from tools, and how the others view "culture" and mumble jumble it with tools... and why are you only focusing on my HanFu example, do you even understand my point of view for the Chi Kung?

Uhhh... maybe my english is so bad that I cant explain myself properly to you... Lets say... english. For me english is just a tool, but for somebody else living somewhere on earth, english is a culture. For me as long as I can communicate with others using english, I am fine with it. But for those who view english as his/her culture, he/she will try to improve his/her english mastery over and over again, despite the fact that his/her english is already much better than me.

Wait let me guess your point... you are trying to say tools are the result, the product of a culture, while culture the the process of learning and mastery of a tool, am I right?


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## nalan

FlowerSummer said:


> Wait let me guess your point... you are trying to say tools are the result, the product of a culture, while culture the the process of learning and mastery of a tool, am I right?


this is a simple example.and your view?
my english is a joke,and i am a clown here.my expression process has some problems.using tool and work with tool is inheritance relations.you cannot cut off the culture when you use it as a tool.about pigtail , you have no chioce,and you cannot take the example of breathing,it creat nothing about culture because its not a tool for social production


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## Snomannen

Sorry but "Hanfu" is no doubt a outdated, worthless clothing. As I have mentioned above it is the most outdated, ancient clothing style in human history (covered by a large piece of cloth and make a "y" in the front). I don't see any good reason to worship such useless, so-called "tradition" nowadays. 

Moreover, I don't see anyone who dislike Hanfu claim that they like "pigtail" nor they like to praise a dead dynasty. Therefore it is never a matter of "if they dare to" but "they consider such action of bringing 'rubbish' back to modern reality is crazy". 

Also I consider the so-called "Hanfu movement" is nothing but a joke in a part of Chinese history which is processing at this moment: 

Firstly those who support such movement also claim that how Qing dynasty "eliminated" Hanfu and "Han Chinese hair style" by force. However, the fact is that both Han's and Manchurian hairstyle and clothing were exist during the period of Qing. The Qing government indeed made a unacceptable action of forcing Han people to follow Manchurian tradition in the beginning, but after the violence they did lightened the policy and let people live as they were willing to (just like how the government failed to forbidden the Han people's tradition of "small feet"). As I have mentioned, there are records about how people living with both styles in the same time in Qing Dynasty. The consequence was what the people have chose themselves. 

Secondly people of the "Hanfu movement" even try to bring back those Hanfu styles which had even been discarded by Tang, Song and Ming. In other word, even in those dynasties, some of the Hanfu styles are considered as out-dated and intangible -yet people nowadays still attempt to bring back those"rubbish". 

Moreover, many people always take Hanfu as an advantage to spread their rascit to minorities (not all of them, but the number is huge). They are nothing but indirectly working as volunteers counting money for anti-China force. 

Thirdly as I have mentioned many times, if a clothing style is considered as the main/ "one of the most important parts" of a culture, then such culture is so inferior and have no reason to feel badly for its disappearance. (the beautiful Chinese culture is more higher and more than "clothing"). 

I don't mean to cause a fight, but seriously I just don't think such action should have existed. If anything has to be restored, Hanfu should not be on the top list. It is just a cloth, not a God, don't spend too much emotion on it and label it as a Savior of Chinese culture. If you really want Chinese culture to shine, then you should upgrade it, not bring back the old version. Just remember, we are all living under western culture/ idea/ "tool", legal system, education system, technology, Geo, Physics, chemistry and even your computer and internet. Can a piece of cloth really have the "qualifications" to content with them.

Besides, I don't see people around the world attempt to "restore" their culture by putting so much emotion on a cloth, just like I never see any Indian claim that their "true" traditional clothing was before the Mughal Empire.


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## FlowerSummer

nalan said:


> this is a simple example.and your view?
> my english is a joke,and i am a clown here.my expression process has some problems.using tool and work with tool is inheritance relations.you cannot cut off the culture when you use it as a tool.about pigtail , you have no chioce,and you cannot take the example of breathing,it creat nothing about culture because its not a tool for social production



Yes your view is quite common back in mainland, at least most of my friends have back in high schools have this kind of view, guess its because of our textbooks play a big part of it.

Actually your point is not completely wrong, its just that I feel something crucial missing from it, and I disagree with your view that relate culture to social production. Also do you think Chi Kung is not a culture?

I give you two examples and see how you think of them.
First we have chinese new year. It is one of our traditional festival, so no doubt it is a culture right? But if we go on by your logic of tools are manifestation of a culture, then do you think Ang Pao, the red envelope we recieved from our elders during the chinese new year, is just a tool too? Can red envelope being use for social production?
Second we take a look at car. It is a tool, and I dont think anyone will disagree with this. But if the culture is the knowledge of how to use a tool, can we say driving is a culture?

Now I give you my opinion. Chinese new year is a culture, but the Ang Pao is *not a mere tool*. It is a cultural symbol, and it is part of the chinese new year culture. The same goes for Nian Gao, or fireworks, or even lion dance and dragon dance. These are all part of the culture of chinese new year, and they serve as a cultural symbol. When we see these cultural symbols, we will automatically have the word "chinese new year" pop out in our mind.

In the case of driving a car, I regard it as a *skill*, not a culture. I only need skill to operate a tool, not culture. Hey, a factory worker certainly dont need "culture" to use a particular machinery right? And in case you have not realise it, factory machinery are a tool for social production. So how do you think about my explaination?

PS. There is some people who regard driving as a culture, like those guys in Initial D. They oftenly race with each others in night time and they always improving their driving speed, learning new tricks and stuffs. Obviously for them, driving is not only just a skill, but a culture, part of their night time racing culture, and the cars are not just mere tools, but their cultural symbols. Heck some of them can even feel they can become one with the car whendriving. If you ever feel you start to have these feelings when using a tool, you may have started to regard it as more than a tool.

About the pigtail, yes we have no choice back then, back when we were forced to shave pigtail, just like we have no choice back when nanking massacre and comfort women happening in WWll. But we have to remember these facts happened in our history, and dont forget about it, because if one forgot the history, mistakes will repeat itself in the future.


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## FlowerSummer

Sorry but our view on culture is different, so different that you are just like an atheist trying to tell a muslim that how "islam" is outdated and worthless. I think we should agree to disagree here.

For your claim of "outdated", there are many "outdated" culture in china now, not just Hanfu, just take a look at-
chopsticks--one of the oldest dining tool created by humanity
bbq--one of the oldest cooking method since humans know how to use fire
maternal society--a social structure that exist before paternal socienty like today replace it
HanZi--ideogram characters are one of the oldest form of writting system humanity ever produce, and its very unique
ancestor worship--one of the oldest form of faith since human civilization started

See we actually have many "outdated" cultures in China, but we dont despise them, so why hate HanFu? Oh and please call it ancient rather than "outdated" if you really want to tag culture, please respect the culture ok?

We dont claim HanFu is the highest or even the only culture Han has, we only said "RESTORE HUAXIA, CLOTHING COME FIRST" (&#21326;&#22799;&#22797;&#20852;&#65292;&#34915;&#20896;&#20808;&#34892 (translation provided please dont delete my post mod ). We always tell our new members to try to learn more about Han traditional culture other than HanFu, and most of my fellows back in my old WeiQi club, now a HanFu WeiQi club, are hardcore traditional HanZi and caligraphy supporter, and I always tell them to support HanYu ZhuYin and WenYanWen as well. I personally also started to learn confucianism 3 years after I begin HanFu restoration movement.

Oh I forgot to tell you last time, HanFu did contain different sleeve styles such as tight sleeves, loose sleeves, short sleeves and long sleeves. Most our current "Daily life use" HanFu are tight sleeves, so you dont need to curse Zhou anymore because Shang clothing style are also being revived alongside with HanFu, huuray! 

We dont worship HanFu, but we do respect and love HanFu just as we respect and love our ancestors. Personally everytime I see a HanFu, I think about my ancestors. For us HanFu is definitely more than a cloth. If you think HanFu is not on the top list restoration then what you should do is not to get in our way, but instead start to do something for those traditional cultures on your top list. Infighting between traditional culture restorer are not neccessary.

HanFu doesnt need to compete with all western cultures, it just need help China to resist the cultural invasion of western clothing styles like XiZhuang and bikini. The other western culture should be compete with our respective Han traditional cultures, like HanZi compete with english. We only use HanFu to rally all Han traditional culture supporters to start revive Han traditional culture, because clothes is the easiest and fastest way to catch a person's attention and the first medium we gives the others a perception.

Just because people around the world dont do something, doesnt mean we cant do that "something" right? Hope you can understand our view and please dont get in our way ok?


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## Snomannen

There is something you don't understand or maybe I didn't make it clear. I never dislike nor hate the subject -"Hanfu", but the *people *-some of the "Hanfu fans". I personally love traditional Chinese buildings, china and other "outdated" Chinese culture. They are "outdated", but I would never consider them as "worthless" things, but "inefficient" and "intangible". Also (ancient) acts, for me, are no doubt "inefficient" and "intangible" and they should be kept and stored in museum and being mentioned in order to put them into a "position" and "environment" that show their "worth". 

As for your samples. Almost every Chinese and other East Asians use such cutie thing (including me of course). It is useful and efficient, also everywhere. Therefore, even though it is "outdated", it is still considered as a "modern", "worthy" tool for eating your dinner. Hanzi? How could Chinese people live without Hanzi. How about the beautiful poems, the ancient books, the knowledge. We CAN'T live without old but modern, efficient, valuable Hanzi , but we CAN for sure live without Hanfu which is valuable in the museum and related books, but "worthless" on the street.

Also as I have mentioned before I will never spend emotion to a 'dead dynasty' nor cursing it. Dressing like a Zhou or Shang nowadays are both considered as "crazy" to me. 

Talking about respect, I do have a lot respect to cultural master like calligrapher. Why, because they never claim the nonsense of how calligraphy has the great, unbelievable power to save Chinese culture and forcing/ asking/ telling/ convincing people to write with a writing brush instead of using a useful pen. The most important thing is, they don't volunteer to count money for anti-China force nor support their theories. I know that some "Hanfu fans" do practice Chinese culture such as calligraphy, musical instruments and painting. I never consider such action is bad, in fact, I do support people who really have such 'healthy' hobby. Life is good isn't it. However, the main problem is, are (most of) you people really simply act like:
"I love Hanfu... I think such clothing style is great and beautiful... Also I believe that encourage people to wear Hanfu is a good idea to have them to think about restoring our culture blah..."
"okay if you think so bye."
but in the reality (many of) you people are really like:
"China is already dead blah blah the true China is dead blah blah evil Yuan and Qing are not China all hail Hanfu Han people are the most peaceful people minorities especially Manchurian and Mongolian are evil and stupid blah blah Ming is the best dynasty and best country in the world my parents are stupid as well they are not willing to spend their money from their hard work to buy me a low quality yet super experience Hanfy the are so ignorance and selfish blah blah... "
"Dafuq?"

(Many of) you kind are supporting the theory of "Yuan & Qing are not China" which was early from imperial Japanese who attempt to cause conflict between Chinese people. Standing against the basic fact that China and its history are not only belongs to Han people but the whole Chinese ethnics group (non-natives such as Russian and Korean are exception), supporting Han chauvinism (only Han = China), overstating minorities' crime in the history but ignore the crimes that Han people did to minorities. Giving away our own history to our neighbor such as Outer Mongolian.
I can still remember how I was explaining why Tibetan is Chinese and the true about their treatment in Tibet and the so-called independence movement of "Manchukuo" and "south Mongolia" nowadays are nothing but jokes, then suddenly a guy who called himself a "imperial Han" jumped up and yelled that Yuan and Qing are not China and Mongolian and Manchrian "are slaves that ruled by Chinese". That was not even the only time I have met such trouble maker. Even in this forum I have seen some of that kind as well. Now, who are really those getting on other people's way. 

Moreover, there are reasons of people don't do that "sth", meaninglessness/silliness is one of them


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## nalan

I just said tool is one of the manifestation of culture .Your understanding of culture is narrow. Ang Pao is a tool(symbol),giving Ang Pao is a culture.same to Chi Kung, Nian Gao.when you cannot use some skill,you will be criticized no culture in chinese.each factory has his own culture.the diathesis of factory workers will affect its culture.


FlowerSummer said:


> Yes your view is quite common back in mainland, at least most of my friends have back in high schools have this kind of view, guess its because of our textbooks play a big part of it.
> 
> Actually your point is not completely wrong, its just that I feel something crucial missing from it, and I disagree with your view that relate culture to social production. Also do you think Chi Kung is not a culture?
> 
> I give you two examples and see how you think of them.
> First we have chinese new year. It is one of our traditional festival, so no doubt it is a culture right? But if we go on by your logic of tools are manifestation of a culture, then do you think Ang Pao, the red envelope we recieved from our elders during the chinese new year, is just a tool too? Can red envelope being use for social production?
> Second we take a look at car. It is a tool, and I dont think anyone will disagree with this. But if the culture is the knowledge of how to use a tool, can we say driving is a culture?
> 
> Now I give you my opinion. Chinese new year is a culture, but the Ang Pao is *not a mere tool*. It is a cultural symbol, and it is part of the chinese new year culture. The same goes for Nian Gao, or fireworks, or even lion dance and dragon dance. These are all part of the culture of chinese new year, and they serve as a cultural symbol. When we see these cultural symbols, we will automatically have the word "chinese new year" pop out in our mind.
> 
> In the case of driving a car, I regard it as a *skill*, not a culture. I only need skill to operate a tool, not culture. Hey, a factory worker certainly dont need "culture" to use a particular machinery right? And in case you have not realise it, factory machinery are a tool for social production. So how do you think about my explaination?
> 
> PS. There is some people who regard driving as a culture, like those guys in Initial D. They oftenly race with each others in night time and they always improving their driving speed, learning new tricks and stuffs. Obviously for them, driving is not only just a skill, but a culture, part of their night time racing culture, and the cars are not just mere tools, but their cultural symbols. Heck some of them can even feel they can become one with the car whendriving. If you ever feel you start to have these feelings when using a tool, you may have started to regard it as more than a tool.
> 
> About the pigtail, yes we have no choice back then, back when we were forced to shave pigtail, just like we have no choice back when nanking massacre and comfort women happening in WWll. But we have to remember these facts happened in our history, and dont forget about it, because if one forgot the history, mistakes will repeat itself in the future.


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## FlowerSummer

nalan said:


> I just said tool is one of the manifestation of culture .Your understanding of culture is narrow. Ang Pao is a tool(symbol),giving Ang Pao is a culture.same to Chi Kung, Nian Gao.when you cannot use some skill,you will be criticized no culture in chinese.each factory has his own culture.the diathesis of factory workers will affect its culture.



Yep my perception on culture is not broad, because I do not just consider someone is "cultured" just because he/she learn some skills. I always laugh when I heard how mainland chinese brand someone "no culture" just because they do not have a certain knowledge, as if being highly educated = highly cultured, as if acquiring *lots of certificate will make somebody "cultured"*.

For me, *tools are the manifestation of knowledge*, not culture. You can invent a tool if you have a certain knowledge, and you can use a tool well if you have the skill to use it. But that does not mean you are automatically cultured in something just because you can use a tool. Anyone in the earth can give out ang pao or eat nian gao, but that does not mean he/she is celebrating chinese new year, nor he/she is cultured in chinese traditional culture.

So now each factory has their own "machinery culture" hmm? And those newbie who just got hired are not cultured because they do not know how to operate these machinery huh? I never know that. I always thought that each factory only has their own *factory working culture*, just like each office has their own *office working culture*, but that does not mean just because someone cant use some machinery in a factory or you cant use computer in an office, will make you not "cultured" in machinery or factory or computer or office, it will just simply mean that you are not skillful enough, and probably need more training.

Satelites is a tool, and they are very crucial in social production. I wonder what kind of culture manifested satelites... and does that mean I am "cultured" in whatever 'culture" that manifested satelites, just because I can use GPS very well?


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## FlowerSummer

I tell you what, I never dislike nor hate the subject -"Islam", but the *people* -some of the "muslim terrorists and separarists". Does that mean I can be a jerk and jumping up and down like a clown just because I met somebody who just love Islam or is a muslim? Does that mean I can act like a boss and a sage, telling people that love Islam or is a muslim, how loving and practising Islam is equal to counting money for anti china force and supporting their theory, just because a bunch of muslim chinese is happened to be a terrorists or separarist?

How could Chinese people live without HanZi? Try tell this to those self proclaim "enlightened chinese communist" that wanted to latinized HanZi so badly, and they will give you 1000 reasons why HanYu alphabets are much much much more "advance", "efficient", "scientific", "useful", "beautiful" blah blah blah. These people are even more dangerous than any separarist or terrorist, because they wanted to uproot chinese civilization from her core, chinese traditional arts and culture, directly, now thats how you call true chinese enemies.

How strange, my high school teacher always comment how only caligraphy, traditional HanZi, WenYanWen and confucianism can only save chinese traditional culture and subsequently, China. I guess its just how each person value a traditional culture is different. We never say only HanFu can save chinese traditional culture, we only said HanFu is the first step for Han traditional culture revival.

Chinese culture does started to decline ever since mongol yuan, but not dead of course. This is actually why Ming China is only sub par in my ranking list, because the power of chinese cultural assimilation during Ming China is very weak. Imperial Han? You mean Huang Han right? I myself is a Huang Han, did I appear to be the same as them? There is one very common thing in internet nowadays, that is called false flagger, as a PDF member you should know this right?

Mongolians and manchurians are slaves that ruled by Chinese? What the heck are they talking about? *We Chinese are actually the "slaves"* back in the period of mongol yuan and manchu qing, while the mongols and manchus are the bigshots royals and nobles. Even when in today the so call republic era, Han chinese are still 2nd class citizens, lacking many special previleges that minorities enjoy but Han Chinese doesnt have, in the areas like education and merit system, law and punishement system, local governing system, job employment policy, social welfare policy and one child policy. These idiots must be hallucinating when they uttering these rubbish words.

There is no such thing as meaningless action, because it was us humans that are giving meaning to our actions.

Oh I forgot to mention, you are from macao right? I hope you guys can protect and preserve traditional HanZi with everything you guys can do, alongside with hong kong and ROC. Right now trditional HanZi are barely living in mainland, breathing its last breath, all thanks to you know who. I dont know how long we mainlanders can still preserve and protect this beautiful culture of ours, because now website like BaiDu that love sucking up with you know who are purposely forbidding the use of traditional HanZi. All traditional HanZi we type in past and present are all being automatically convert to simplified HanZi, as if they wanted to eradicate the existence of traditional HanZi, and I fear that traditional HanZi will lost in the near future, just like how once HanFu was used to.

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## Snomannen

Exactly what I was trying to say, for I never dislike "Islam" nor "Hanfu" but those extremists who can really bring trouble in our lives. You have to defend your own property and safety by criticizing those extremists "like a boss". If a Muslim simply practice what he believes and a Hanfu fans simply like the ancient clothing, then nobody would even bother. But if a Muslim trying to bomb someone, insulting other religions or a Hanfu fans (Imperial Han) spreading rumors and racists, then we have no choice but fight them back. 

I know what they were up to, luckily they have found the chaos they were about to cause and stop promoting the second simplified characters. If they have really latinized Hanzi, we would have all doomed. However, traditional and Simplified Chinese characters are both Hanzi after all. 
Anyway, the CCP was/is a great power against separatist and terrorist, at least much better than the KMT. They have destoryed many Chinese tradition, but at least they have united most of the Chinese territories. 

Your teacher is a typical person who likes to look backward instead of "creating the future". To save a culture or make a culture shine in this dynasty doesn't mean that "digging up" or practicing the "old way" is the ONLY way. Anyway as you have said that everyone value their traditional culture in different ways. I don't want to discuss about if the idea of "clothing comes first" is a good idea or not, besides it is not even the main point of the whole topic.

I have no idea why people always claim that Chinese culture was declined during the two dynasties. In fact, during the Yuan Dynasty, there was a high achievement in astronomy, mathematics, navigation and other regions of knowledge. As for Qing Dynasty, as I have mentioned above, they even worked hard to search and restore our ancient books ad knowledge. The Emperors even studied western knowledge and encourage their chancellors to do the same as they do, yet seldom do they listen to their emperors due to the proud of their own culture. 
I have seen many of these Huang Hans in other Chinese forums such as Tianya and Baisu Tieba, I really don't think they are (all) flaggers, eventhough I wish they were which means we don't really have such creatures in our country. 

He said "are", not "were". 
Once again I have no idea why people always emphasize that Han people* were slaves during that 2 period. The fact is, we people, no matter what ethnics we were nor which dynasties we were living, are ALL slaves to the rulers. There was no such thing of Human Rights back in those days. We were all ruled by a royal family. Mongolian and Manchurian were the winners of the wars, there is no doubt and reasonable that their number in the ruling class are huge. Moreover, if you did some research, you would found that Han people were still have their power in the government which was not even worse than other ethnics. 
Also, "protecting minorities" is a common value that was supported by the UN. The action of providing minorities "benefits" is actually normal and reasonable. I don't see any serious problem within this issue. Besides "2nd class" Han people have already owned the best land in China (many of those land were taken by war in the history from minorities), while many ministries have to live in places with lack of resources and dangerous environment. As for the 1-Child-Policy, many minorities such as Manchurian has to follow this policy as well. Also asking those minorities have only few of population is not really a good idea (the policy itself is not a best idea as well anyways, but it is a solution to a big mistake caused by the CCP).


*Also you have made a serious mistake, Manchurian and Mongolian, like Han, were/are Chinese. As I have mentioned that Han people doesn't represent the whole Chinese history but the Chinese ethnics group does. 


Even through I said that traditional and simplified Hanzi are both Hanzi, but personally I do prefer the traditional one since it is more logical and more beautiful than the "disable" one. Speaking of my homeland, well, due to the big influence from the Mainland, the "status" of simplified Chinese is being treated better and better. Simplified Chinese can be seen in everywhere in these years, and the main problem is, people sometimes even ignore the traditional section which is supposed to be next to the simplified one. Sometimes I do worry about Macau will follow what Malaysia and Singapore did -replacing traditional Chinese with the simplified one. 
Hong Kong, Taiwan, Macau and some of the regions with lots of overseas Chinese such as Vancouver are the only places that are still using traditional Chinese.


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## Wholegrain

FlowerSummer said:


> I tell you what, I never dislike nor hate the subject -"Islam", but the *people* -some of the "muslim terrorists and separarists". Does that mean I can be a jerk and jumping up and down like a clown just because I met somebody who just love Islam or is a muslim? Does that mean I can act like a boss and a sage, telling people that love Islam or is a muslim, how loving and practising Islam is equal to counting money for anti china force and supporting their theory, just because a bunch of muslim chinese is happened to be a terrorists or separarist?
> 
> How could Chinese people live without HanZi? Try tell this to those self proclaim "enlightened chinese communist" that wanted to latinized HanZi so badly, and they will give you 1000 reasons why HanYu alphabets are much much much more "advance", "efficient", "scientific", "useful", "beautiful" blah blah blah. These people are even more dangerous than any separarist or terrorist, because they wanted to uproot chinese civilization from her core, chinese traditional arts and culture, directly, now thats how you call true chinese enemies.
> 
> How strange, my high school teacher always comment how only caligraphy, traditional HanZi, WenYanWen and confucianism can only save chinese traditional culture and subsequently, China. I guess its just how each person value a traditional culture is different. We never say only HanFu can save chinese traditional culture, we only said HanFu is the first step for Han traditional culture revival.
> 
> Chinese culture does started to decline ever since mongol yuan, but not dead of course. This is actually why Ming China is only sub par in my ranking list, because the power of chinese cultural assimilation during Ming China is very weak. Imperial Han? You mean Huang Han right? I myself is a Huang Han, did I appear to be the same as them? There is one very common thing in internet nowadays, that is called false flagger, as a PDF member you should know this right?
> 
> Mongolians and manchurians are slaves that ruled by Chinese? What the heck are they talking about? *We Chinese are actually the "slaves"* back in the period of mongol yuan and manchu qing, while the mongols and manchus are the bigshots royals and nobles. Even when in today the so call republic era, Han chinese are still 2nd class citizens, lacking many special previleges that minorities enjoy but Han Chinese doesnt have, in the areas like education and merit system, law and punishement system, local governing system, job employment policy, social welfare policy and one child policy. These idiots must be hallucinating when they uttering these rubbish words.
> 
> There is no such thing as meaningless action, because it was us humans that are giving meaning to our actions.
> 
> Oh I forgot to mention, you are from macao right? I hope you guys can protect and preserve traditional HanZi with everything you guys can do, alongside with hong kong and ROC. Right now trditional HanZi are barely living in mainland, breathing its last breath, all thanks to you know who. I dont know how long we mainlanders can still preserve and protect this beautiful culture of ours, because now website like BaiDu that love sucking up with you know who are purposely forbidding the use of traditional HanZi. All traditional HanZi we type in past and present are all being automatically convert to simplified HanZi, as if they wanted to eradicate the existence of traditional HanZi, and I fear that traditional HanZi will lost in the near future, just like how once HanFu was used to.



Wrong. Manchu Bannermen were forced by the Qing Emperor to call themselves slaves (nucai) to the Emperor, while Han officials called themselves "your minister". The Qing Emperor regarded all Manchu bannermen as his personal slaves.

Biographies of Immortals - Legends of China - Special Edition - Herbert Allen Giles, Frederic H. Balfour, Lionel Giles - Google Books

China and the Manchus - Herbert A. Giles - Google Books

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

A Translucent Mirror: History and Identity in Qing Imperial Ideology - Pamela Kyle Crossley - Google Books

A Handbook of the Chinese Language: Parts I and II, Grammar and Chrestomathy ... - James Summers - Google Books

&#20013;&#22269;&#21476;&#20195;&#23448;&#21517;&#36766;&#20856; - Charles O. Hucker - Google Books

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

The Immobile Empire - Alain Peyrefitte - Google Books

Orphan Warriors: Three Manchu Generations and the End of the Qing World - Pamela Kyle Crossley - Google Books

Mourning in Late Imperial China: Filial Piety and the State - Norman Kutcher - Google Books

The Manchu bannermen found it so degrading they wanted to change the system and allow themselves to all themselves "your minister".

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

Manchus and Han: Ethnic Relations and Political Power in Late Qing and Early ... - Edward J. M. Rhoads - Google Books

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## nalan

You misunderstand what I mean."no culture" means you have not knowledge to do something.No battery and battery run out of power is same in chinese.i dont say tool is cultured,but using with experience,give it the anima.driving car and giving ang pao make nosense for me.but it doesnt interfere with you doing it.give ang pao eat niaogao dont depend on your view.depend on weather its "active"and accepting by most people.obviously its chinese cultured.about factory,there is inheritance relations just as giving ang bao for celebrating chinese new year.Satelites is a tool just as car.


FlowerSummer said:


> Yep my perception on culture is not broad, because I do not just consider someone is "cultured" just because he/she learn some skills. I always laugh when I heard how mainland chinese brand someone "no culture" just because they do not have a certain knowledge, as if being highly educated = highly cultured, as if acquiring *lots of certificate will make somebody "cultured"*.
> 
> For me, *tools are the manifestation of knowledge*, not culture. You can invent a tool if you have a certain knowledge, and you can use a tool well if you have the skill to use it. But that does not mean you are automatically cultured in something just because you can use a tool. Anyone in the earth can give out ang pao or eat nian gao, but that does not mean he/she is celebrating chinese new year, nor he/she is cultured in chinese traditional culture.
> 
> So now each factory has their own "machinery culture" hmm? And those newbie who just got hired are not cultured because they do not know how to operate these machinery huh? I never know that. I always thought that each factory only has their own *factory working culture*, just like each office has their own *office working culture*, but that does not mean just because someone cant use some machinery in a factory or you cant use computer in an office, will make you not "cultured" in machinery or factory or computer or office, it will just simply mean that you are not skillful enough, and probably need more training.
> 
> Satelites is a tool, and they are very crucial in social production. I wonder what kind of culture manifested satelites... and does that mean I am "cultured" in whatever 'culture" that manifested satelites, just because I can use GPS very well?


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## nalan

> For me, tools are the manifestation of knowledge, not culture


my mistake.for me,there are not many difference between tools and knowledge.of cause,i am not god,i cannot say i am right.it is just my understanding.i dont know much about HANFU,so what is it?may i say its heritage of chinese culture?should we need it to affect our modern lives?


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## FlowerSummer

nalan said:


> You misunderstand what I mean."no culture" means you have not knowledge to do something.No battery and battery run out of power is same in chinese.i dont say tool is cultured,but using with experience,give it the anima.driving car and giving ang pao make nosense for me.but it doesnt interfere with you doing it.give ang pao eat niaogao dont depend on your view.depend on weather its "active"and accepting by most people.obviously its chinese cultured.about factory,there is inheritance relations just as giving ang bao for celebrating chinese new year.Satelites is a tool just as car.



Yes I know what "no culture" mean back in mainland, thats why I laugh every time I heard someone mention it out loud, and I always wonder why we cant say "lack knowledge" to describe someone who is lacking a certain knowledge instead of "no culture".

So your point is what makes something as a culture is not depend on the person who practicing it, but rather depend on the view of the others? Well I disagree to this because I think only the person who is practicing it can decide how he/she view it as a culture or as a skill/tool, other people views on the same thing only reflect what those people think about it for themselves, though to determine a culture is still active or not is depending on how many people view such a thing as a culture rather than a skill/tool.



> my mistake.for me,there are not many difference between tools and knowledge.of cause,i am not god,i cannot say i am right.it is just my understanding.i dont know much about HANFU,so what is it?may i say its heritage of chinese culture?should we need it to affect our modern lives?



If you are interesting in HanFu then you can visit HanFu baidu tieba and search more info about it, because I cant explain too much about HanFu with english alone. All I can tell you is HanFu is one of the oldest form of clothing style ever produced by mankind. HanFu history stretches back for more than 4000 years ago, and has been wore by chinese from Xia to Ming dynasty. It was lost during manchu Qing because chinese were force to abandon this beautiful clothing style at the cost of their life, and only in last decade it was being slowly revived back into chinese society. And yeah its 100% chinese heritage, dont worry.

Please read all the "JingPin"(&#31934;&#21697 threads in the HanFu tieba forum before posting any questions and comments because these "JingPin" threads is essential for you to understand HanFu. After read all "JingPin" threads, which is quite a lot and can take a day or two, you can freely join in the forum discussion. Hope you can patiently read all the "JingPin" threads, because it contains most of the info we pour our blood and sweat to gather, especially those threads the previous mod(&#21069;&#21543;&#20027 post.

Hope you will love HanFu and support HanFu revival, and hope you will also love the other Han traditional cultures and support them as well. 
Oh in case you never saw a MV dedicated to HanFu revival movement, go search and watch it. The MV named as &#37325;&#22238;&#28450;&#21776;(Back to Han and Tang China) by Sun Yi. There are some fans created version so please pay attention to which version you are watching.


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## FlowerSummer

Wholegrain said:


> Wrong. Manchu Bannermen were forced by the Qing Emperor to call themselves slaves (nucai) to the Emperor, while Han officials called themselves "your minister". The Qing Emperor regarded all Manchu bannermen as his personal slaves.



Wait, there are a whole Han eight banners "dedicated" for surrendered or enslaved Han Chinese, and because of Han Chinese population > manchu population, there are more Han bannermen than manchu bannermen. I am pretty sure there are lots of Han bannermen that have to call themselves "nucai" though.


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## Wholegrain

FlowerSummer said:


> Wait, there are a whole Han eight banners "dedicated" for surrendered or enslaved Han Chinese, and because of Han Chinese population > manchu population, there are more Han bannermen than manchu bannermen. I am pretty sure there are lots of Han bannermen that have to call themselves "nucai" though.



Those Eight banners were actually not captured or surrendered, alot of them were Han who *escaped and defected from the Ming of their own free will* and joined the Qing state before Shanhai pass fell.

The Qing Emperor really treated the Manchu bannermen like his personal slaves, as he considered them. Only the Bannermen were required to turn their daughters over to the Emperor to become his concubines but he didn't do that to the general Han population. When the Qing Emperor decided to segregate the Banners in Beijing from the general Han population, he did not say Banners were superior people. In his explanation, he said the Banners were harrasing civilians and he separated them for the civilian's safety. The banners (qi) were considered military while the general Han population were considered civilian (min), and those were the official distinctions between the, in Qing law.

Several Vietnamese dynasties were founded by Chinese, would you agree to call them Chinese and not Vietnamese? If you do then China never fell to the Mongols because the Chinese Tran dynasty defeated the Mongols st Bach Dang river in 1288.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...moro-independence-philippi-3.html#post4620918


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## nalan

FlowerSummer said:


> Yes I know what "no culture" mean back in mainland, thats why I laugh every time I heard someone mention it out loud, and I always wonder why we cant say "lack knowledge" to describe someone who is lacking a certain knowledge instead of "no culture".


you could laugh me,dont laugh others.no one say you cannot say.


> So your point is what makes something as a culture is not depend on the person who practicing it, but rather depend on the view of the others?


no,its your logic.


> If you are interesting in HanFu then you can visit HanFu baidu tieba and search more info about it


a joke.


> Hope you will love HanFu and support HanFu revival, and hope you will also love the other Han traditional cultures and support them as well.
> Oh in case you never saw a MV dedicated to HanFu revival movement, go search and watch it. The MV named as &#37325;&#22238;&#28450;&#21776;(Back to Han and Tang China) by Sun Yi. There are some fans created version so please pay attention to which version you are watching.


yes,there wont be cars after 1000 years,some people will ask for it by intreesting.


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## FlowerSummer

Wholegrain said:


> Those Eight banners were actually not captured or surrendered, alot of them were Han who *escaped and defected from the Ming of their own free will* and joined the Qing state before Shanhai pass fell.
> 
> The Qing Emperor really treated the Manchu bannermen like his personal slaves, as he considered them. Only the Bannermen were required to turn their daughters over to the Emperor to become his concubines but he didn't do that to the general Han population. When the Qing Emperor decided to segregate the Banners in Beijing from the general Han population, he did not say Banners were superior people. In his explanation, he said the Banners were harrasing civilians and he separated them for the civilian's safety. The banners (qi) were considered military while the general Han population were considered civilian (min), and those were the official distinctions between the, in Qing law.
> 
> Several Vietnamese dynasties were founded by Chinese, would you agree to call them Chinese and not Vietnamese? If you do then China never fell to the Mongols because the Chinese Tran dynasty defeated the Mongols st Bach Dang river in 1288.



If I did not remember wrong, there are alot Han in the north east being enslaved by the manchus during nurhachi period and work as slaves. They also serve as the 1st ever Han banner soldiers for the manchus, later join in by those defected and surrendered Han, and the Han banner slowly expand from one to eight. Even after the so call dissolution of Han banners, there are still quite alot of Han remain in the eight banners.

I always call them chinese(ethnicity) vietnamese(nationality). Come on we have russian(ethnicity) chinese(nationality) and chinese(ethnicity) american(nationality) these days, so I dont find these vietnam dynasty founders really that hard to classified.


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## FlowerSummer

nalan said:


> you could laugh me,dont laugh others.no one say you cannot say.



I dont laugh at those people or you or anybody, I just laugh at the fact that how the hell "no culture" turn into something like this. Of course I cant forbid the others use "no culture" to describe someone lacks knowledge, they can use "no culture" however they want, just like I cant forbid someone pointing a donkey and call it a horse.



> no,its your logic.



Nope thats not my logic, my logic are posted after I throw out this guesswork sentence. I cant really understand much from your previous post because my english is not too good, thats why I ask if that is your point so that I can verify wheter I get your point right or not.



> a joke.



Huh? But anyway if you interested in HanFu you should go check out info at that forum personally.



> yes,there wont be cars after 1000 years,some people will ask for it by intreesting.



I am not really sure whether cars will disappear 1000 years later because I am not fortune teller, but I do know that even cars replace horses as human most common transportation tool, horses and horseback riding still remain in our todays society as an important culture and cultural symbol, so I think even in future there has to be some culture(s) related to cars and car driving, even at that time they lose their usage as a tool, some may still found cultural values from them.


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## Wholegrain

FlowerSummer said:


> If I did not remember wrong, there are alot Han in the north east being enslaved by the manchus during nurhachi period and work as slaves. They also serve as the 1st ever Han banner soldiers for the manchus, later join in by those defected and surrendered Han, and the Han banner slowly expand from one to eight. Even after the so call dissolution of Han banners, there are still quite alot of Han remain in the eight banners.
> 
> I always call them chinese(ethnicity) vietnamese(nationality). Come on we have russian(ethnicity) chinese(nationality) and chinese(ethnicity) american(nationality) these days, so I dont find these vietnam dynasty founders really that hard to classified.



Banner slaves are called booi aha, you are confusing them with actual bannermen. Those booi aha included Jurchen, Korean, Mongolian. and Han slaves taken during warfare. The Jurchen enslaved other Jurchen they took as prisoners in tribal warfare too. Those Booi aha were assigned as slaves to the Manchu Banners. The Manchus then took Han defectors as members of the banners and then created the separate Han eight banners after the population of Han defectors swelled.

The Manchu Way: The Eight Banners and Ethnic Identity in Late Imperial China - Mark C. Elliott - Google Books

The Manchu Way: The Eight Banners and Ethnic Identity in Late Imperial China - Mark C. Elliott - Google Books

The Manchu Way: The Eight Banners and Ethnic Identity in Late Imperial China - Mark C. Elliott - Google Books


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## third eye

BBC News - Xinjiang violence: Two sentenced to death in China

Two men have been sentenced to death and three more jailed over a clash in China's far-west Xinjiang region that left 21 people dead.

The incident happened on 23 April in a town in Kashgar prefecture. Fifteen officials or security personnel were among those killed.

China said it was a planned attack by a "violent terrorist group".

But other accounts dispute this, attributing the confrontation to ethnic tensions in the restive region.

Xinjiang is home to the Muslim Uighur minority, who make up about 45% of the region's population but say an influx of Han Chinese residents has marginalised their traditional culture.

The authorities often blame violent incidents in Xinjiang on Uighur extremists seeking autonomy for the region.

Uighur activists, meanwhile, accuse Beijing of over-exaggerating the threat to justify heavy-handed rule.

Verifying reports from Xinjiang is difficult.

While foreign journalists are allowed to travel to the region, they frequently face intimidation and harassment when attempting to verify news of ethnic rioting or organised violence against government authorities.

*The BBC team that visited the site of the incident to try to clarify details were taken by police to a government compound and subsequently ordered to leave.
*
'Religious extremism'

The two men sentenced to death by Kashgar's Intermediate People's Court on murder and terrorism charges were named in state media as Musa Hesen, the co-founder of the "terrorist group", and Rehman Hupur.

Three other men were jailed for terms ranging from nine years to life.

The group had been "carrying out illegal religious activities (and) promoting religious extremism", Xinhua news agency reported, citing a court statement. They had also "made 10 explosive devices and carried out explosive tests", it said.

The violence was sparked when three officials saw suspicious behaviour at a house, Chinese reports say.

Residents seized the officials and several more police who came to the scene, many of whom burned to death when the house was set on fire. Security personnel shot six suspects, Chinese reports say.

But a group of local people in Selibuya town, where the clashes happened, told the BBC that the violence involved a local family who had a long-standing dispute with officials who wanted the men to shave their beards and the women to stop wearing full veils.


A spokesperson for the World Uighur Congress, an umbrella organisation of Uighur groups, also disputed the government's version, saying the clashes were a result of a government clean-up campaign.

The incident comes amid rumbling ethnic tensions between the Muslim Uighur and Han Chinese communities.

In 2009 almost 200 people - mostly Han Chinese - were killed in deadly rioting in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi.

There have been sporadic eruptions of violence since then - in June 2013, 35 people were killed in rioting in the township of Lukqun, about 200km (120 miles) south-east of Urumqi.


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## PlanetWarrior

How does a man having a full beard and a woman wearing a full veil become a traitor to their country ?


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## Tshering22

PlanetWarrior said:


> How does a man having a full beard and a woman wearing a full veil become a traitor to their country ?



And then Pakistanis call us as anti-Islamic.


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## PlanetWarrior

Tshering22 said:


> And then Pakistanis call us as anti-Islamic.



Who cares what Pakistanis think of us. I posed the same question in the France thread some time ago. My point being that a country should be bold enough to either ban a religion or allow its supporters the freedom to express themselves according to their religious beliefs without harassing them. Doing otherwise is just plain torture of their own people

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## cnleio

21x victims died, only sentence 2x murders to death. WTF in XinJiang ? WTF in China ? 
Unfair judgment like this, just encourage other violences to happen in XinJiang, they know u r COWARD !
Stupid enough.

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## EastSea

but chinese boys is talking about Moro independence from Philippine.

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## Wholegrain

> Xinjiang is home to the Muslim Uighur minority, who make up about 45% of the region's population but say an influx of Han Chinese residents has marginalised their traditional culture.



This is a lie. Almost all Han people in Xinjiang live in Dzungharia and not the Tarim Basin. Uyghurs in Dzungharia are also recent migrants. The influx isn't marginalising their culture, other forces like modernization and development are.



PlanetWarrior said:


> How does a man having a full beard and a woman wearing a full veil become a traitor to their country ?



Lots of Uyghur men in Xinjiang have beards and have no problems with the authorities. Tourists go there and take pictures of the,, go look up "uyghur man" on google images.

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## Audio

lel, if this was in France this thread would be 10+ pages long full of condemnation from stupider members of this forum. Bunch of bough out hypocrites lol.....

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## kalu_miah

In the broader global geopolitics China and Muslims are allies, for now and for the long term. The Chinese did not embark on a "War on Terror", which is essentially a war on Islam. The are not being controlled by the Zionist and are running propaganda crusade of Islamophobia, which is being helped by Indian peons and boot lickers. And a few bad apples among Muslims, who resort to violence, are biggest threat for Muslims, even before they are threats for others. So I fully support the death sentence, if due process was followed.

Indians and the West can cry hypocrite all they want, this is the core of the matter. Chinese and Muslims (Shia's and Sunnis) are allies and will remain so for the foreseeable future.


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## third eye

kalu_miah said:


> In the broader global geopolitics China and Muslims are allies, for now and for the long term. The Chinese did not embark on a "War on Terror", which is essentially a war on Islam. The are not being controlled by the Zionist and are running propaganda crusade of Islamophobia, which is being helped by Indian peons and boot lickers. And a few bad apples among Muslims, who resort to violence, are biggest threat for Muslims, even before they are threats for others. So I fully support the death sentence, if due process was followed.
> 
> Indians and the West can cry hypocrite all they want, this is the core of the matter. Chinese and Muslims (Shia's and Sunnis) are allies and will remain so for the foreseeable future.



Hame Gum bhi unka aziz hai..Ki unhi ki di hui cheez hai..

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## RescueRanger

Chinese laws, their country and their people. *Who the **** are we to talk? * What's really funny here is Indian's talking about injustice relating to the Ujihur people, when they are a wonderful track record in IOK.

Pot calling the kettle black much?

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## KRAIT

RescueRanger said:


> Chinese laws, their country and their people. *Who the **** are we to talk? * What's really funny here is Indian's talking about injustice relating to the Ujihur people, when they are a wonderful track record in IOK. Pot calling the kettle black much?


Just like Pakistani commenting about India when they have awesome record in East Bengal, Baluchistan, Sindh etc. 

These things happen in each country. India also have jailed people for life who caused riots. Death sentences given. 

Justice in not perfect in any country. 

As for Kashmir, I wonder what you say about Kashmiris who threatened their own neighbors and made lakhs of Kashmiri Pundits to leave their homes. 

What about those Kashmiris who killed their neighbors and took their property ? 

I have never seen any Pakistani talk about Kashmiri Pundits. Are they not Kashmiris ?

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## third eye

The Ummah rallies itself when Muslims anywhere else are ' threatened'.

Its amusing to see BD & Pak posters condone death sentences in China .

*' Give me the man & I'll give you the rule".*


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## RescueRanger

KRAIT said:


> Just like Pakistani commenting about India when they have awesome record in East Bengal, Baluchistan, Sindh etc.
> 
> These things happen in each country. India also have jailed people for life who caused riots. Death sentences given.
> 
> Justice in not perfect in any country.
> 
> As for Kashmir, I wonder what you say about Kashmiris who threatened their own neighbors and made lakhs of Kashmiri Pundits to leave their homes.
> 
> What about those Kashmiris who killed their neighbors and took their property ?
> 
> I never seen any Pakistani talk about Kashmiri Pundits. Are they not Kashmiris ?



1. Did i say Pakistan is a candidate for beatification?  We have our fair share of **** ups...
2. East Pakistan was 42 years ago? 
3. Baluchistan last time i checked are Internal conflicts, IOK last time i checked was disputed territory. I would not comment on what India does to her citizens in mainland India... Your country, your laws. 
4. Sindh?  Pray tell what conflict you foresee in Sindh?



third eye said:


> The Ummah rallies itself when Muslims anywhere else are ' threatened'.
> 
> Its amusing to see BD & Pak posters condone death sentences in China .
> 
> *' Give me the man & I'll give you the rule".*



Where was the Ummah during the Naqba? Where was it during GW1, GW2, Afghanistan, Syria conflict, Lybia conflict etc etc.... The Ummah = OPEC, and pipe dreams from war mongering **** heads like Zahid Hamid. Please don't count us all from the same bucket. 

Do i care bout the treatment of Ujhiur han Chinese? Yes
Do i respect that this is an internal matter for the Chinese? Yes
Did i ever rant or rave when France banned the Hijab? Nope, got better things to do.


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## KRAIT

RescueRanger said:


> 1. Did i say Pakistan is a candidate for beatification?  We have our fair share of **** ups...
> 2. East Pakistan was 42 years ago?
> 3. Baluchistan last time i checked are Internal conflicts, IOK last time i checked was disputed territory. I would not comment on what India does to her citizens in mainland India... Your country, your laws.
> 4. Sindh?  Pray tell what conflict you foresee in Sindh?


IOK is not disputed. Its ours. 

My point is, your point of bringing Kashmir was irrelevant here. And for other points of mine, its similar for you, irrelevant. 

P.S. BTW how r u Sir ? Belated Eid Mubarak.

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## RescueRanger

KRAIT said:


> IOK is not disputed. Its ours.
> 
> My point is, your point of bringing Kashmir was irrelevant here. And for other points of mine, its similar for you, irrelevant.
> 
> P.S. BTW how r u Sir ? Belated Eid Mubarak.



Hehe tit-for-tat 

Thank you very much for the eid greeting, a happy independence day to you from me. May our region collectively achieve peace, and may the Zahid Hamids on both sides drown in a flood of their own excrement.

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## Chinese-Dragon

RescueRanger said:


> Hehe tit-for-tat
> 
> Thank you very much for the eid greeting, a happy independence day to you from me. May our region collectively achieve peace, and may the Zahid Hamids on both sides drown in a flood of their own excrement.



And may we all together wipe out terrorists from our region.

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## KRAIT

RescueRanger said:


> Hehe tit-for-tat
> Thank you very much for the eid greeting, a happy independence day to you from me. May our region collectively achieve peace, and may the Zahid Hamids on both sides drown in a flood of their own excrement.


Hahaha...

Same to you.

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## RescueRanger

Chinese-Dragon said:


> And may we all together wipe out terrorists from our region.



Amen to that!

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## t_for_talli

RescueRanger said:


> Chinese laws, their country and their people. *Who the **** are we to talk? * What's really funny here is Indian's talking about injustice relating to the Ujihur people, when they are a wonderful track record in IOK.
> 
> Pot calling the kettle black much?



Then why you people cry on Burka ban in France/Babri Masjid issue/ Israel Palestinian issue/ Assad Syria issue
You could apply the same analogy (their country issue their rule) and keep your mouth shut


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## RescueRanger

t_for_talli said:


> Then why you people cry on Burka ban in France/Babri Masjid issue/ Israel Palestinian issue/ Assad Syria issue
> You could apply the same analogy (their country issue their rule) and keep your mouth shut



"you people"... Buddy, i am not President of Pakistan, i can only account for myself. Please pay more attention when reading what people type.


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## Wholegrain

Rebiya Kadeer's paternal grandparents were colonists who moved from Khotan (in the Tarim Basin) to Gulja (in Dzungharia). Her maternal grandparents were from Merket (also in the Tarim Basin) and moved to Gulja.

She says so in pages 6-7 of her book "Dragon Fighter: One Woman's Epic Struggle for Peace with China", but she doesn't mention where Gulja is or who the natives were.

Now the hypocrite Kadeer is claiming China is "colonizing" Xinjiang and saying that all non-Uyghurs in Xinjiang are colonists, while most off them live in Dzungharia. 

Dzungharia's natives were the Dzunghar Mongols. Everyone who is not a Dzunghar, including both Uyghur, Han, Hui, Salar, Xibe, and Manchu, is a colonist and a migrant there.

Another lie in her book was claiming that Uyghurs were living in peace before they became part of China in the 1760s. The reality is that the Muslim Chagatai Khanate in the Tarim Basin was invaded by the Dzunghar Khanate and the Uyghurs were forced into vassalage by the Dzungar Mongol Buddhists.

Uyghur leaders like Emin Khoja joined China for protection against the Dzunghar Buddhists and China defeated the Dzunghar Khanate in 1758-1759. Then the Dzunghars were nearly wiped out, and the Uyghur Khojas, Khans and Begs joined China. Dzungharia was then opened to Uyghur and Han immigrantion.

China Marches West

Both Manchus, Han, Hui, Salar and Uyghurs paid in blood for Dzungharia and to overthrow the expansionist Dzunghars, but a minority of ultranationalist Uyghur separatists like Kadeer lie and claim Dzungharia is their native land.

Rebiya also claimed that Yakub Beg was a Uyghur hero (he was not a Uyghur, he came from modern day Uzbekistan), and admits her father took part in the Ili Rebellion on page 9 of her book and she admitted that the Uyghur separatists received Soviet support. In the Ili Rebellion, the Uyghur Ili rebels were Communists and backed by the Soviet Red Army and White Russians in Xinjiang. Their leader Ehmetjan Qasim (Ahmedjan Kassimi) was a Soviet Communist party member and an agent of Stalin.The Uyghur separatists received direct military support from the Soviets and weapons.

So in summary, her family were colonists in Dzungharia, Soviet agents, and now that the Soviet Union is gone, she seeks aid from America. She is a massive hypocrite 






The Uyghur Ili Communists, including Rebiya Kadeer's father, committed mass murder against the Han people in Dzungharia with Soviet support and called for extermination of Han people since they were labeled as "reactionary".


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## third eye

China arrests 139 in Xinjiang for urging 'jihad': media - DAWN.COM

BEIJING: China has arrested 139 people in Xinjiang for allegedly spreading jihad, state-run media said Wednesday, as it warns of growing religious extremism in the far western region home to Muslim Uighurs.

Beijing has pointed to violent incidents to indicate a rising militant threat among the ethnic minority, but information in the vast region is tightly controlled and Uighur organisations complain of cultural and religious repression.

Police in Xinjiang have handled an increasing number of cases in which individuals have posted or searched for religious extremist content on the Internet, the China Daily said, citing an unnamed source in the Xinjiang Daily.

*In the two months to the end of August, 139 people were arrested for spreading religious extremism including jihad, it said.
*
Also citing the Xinjiang Daily, the Global Times said a farmer in Hotan was detained after he uploaded 2GB of e-books about secessionism which were read 30,000 times.

Dilshat Rexit, a spokesman for the overseas-based World Uyghur Congress, which Beijing calls a separatist group, said the claims were a total distortion of the truth aimed at blocking Uighurs from going online.

Those detained had expressed discontent with Chinese rule and systematic repression in the area, he said.

China's goal is to suppress Uighurs' use of the Internet to obtain information and express different points of view, he added.

China's state-run media have previously reported that Uighurs have fought in Syria's civil war against the regime, then returned home to put their militant experience into practice.

Members of a gang behind what China called a terrorist attack in Lukqun in June that left 35 people dead watched extremist videos beforehand, the China Daily said, citing police.

A court sentenced three people to death and one person to 25 years in jail in September over the attack, saying they had taken part in a terrorist organisation, the official news agency Xinhua reported at the time.

The clash was Xinjiang's deadliest since 2009, when riots between Uighurs and China's ethnic majority Han left 200 people dead.

Xinjiang's population is 46 per cent Uighur and 39 per cent Han, according to official statistics, but the latter largely dominate the economy and form a majority in the regional capital Urumqi.

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## ephone

Put a bullet in those jihadists and send them on fast track to hell.


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## chhota bheem

underlined part dsnt sound like jihad.


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## Mujraparty

(Reuters) - Chinese police are looking for two suspects from its restive Xinjiang region in connection with a "major incident", after five people were killed when a vehicle ploughed into pedestrians and caught fire in Beijing's Tiananmen Square.

*At least 38 people were injured in the incident, but there has been no official word whether it was an accident or an attack.*

However, on Monday night, hours after the fire, Beijing police issued a notice asking local hotels about suspicious guests who had checked in since Oct 1 and named two suspects it said were from Xinjiang. Four hotels told Reuters they had received the notice.

Judging by their names, the suspects appeared to be ethnic Uighurs, who are Turkic-speaking Muslims from Xinjiang, a province in the far west of China. Many Uighurs chafe at Chinese controls on their culture and religion.

"To prevent the suspected persons and vehicles from committing further crimes ... please notify law enforcement of any discovery of clues regarding these suspects and the vehicles," said the notice, which was widely circulated on Chinese microblogs.

*The notice also listed four vehicle licence plates from Xinjiang.*

Beijing police, contacted by telephone, declined to comment.

Calls to the Xinjiang government went unanswered.

The Beijing police said on Monday on their official microblog only that they were investigating the accident, and did not say if they thought it was an attack.

Police said on Monday that the sports utility vehicle veered off the road at the north of the square, a major tourist attraction, crossed the barriers and caught fire almost directly in front of the main entrance of the Forbidden City, in front of a huge portrait of the founder of Communist China, Mao Zedong.

Tiananmen Square was the site of huge pro-democracy protests in 1989 that were brutally crushed by Chinese authorities, and remains one of China's most sensitive and well-guarded locations.

Pictures seen by Reuters showed that the vehicle appeared to have driven several hundred metres (feet) along the pedestrian pavement in front of the Forbidden City entrance before bursting into flames, knocking down people as it went.

BLACK SMOKE

One eyewitness, who asked not to be identified due to the incident's sensitive nature, said she saw the vehicle knock down three or four people, and* that it had a white banner with black lettering on it streaming from the back.*

"People started to panic, and all ran to hide in the toilet," she said. "Three or four minutes later I came out and could see black smoke, and the police had begun to clear people out."

While censors moved quickly to remove pictures of the incident from the popular Twitter-like service Sina Weibo, as often happens in stability-obsessed China, many images and accounts are still viewable a day after the event.

The three people in the vehicle died, as well as two tourists.

Beijing police stepped up checks on cars around the city in response to the incident, one police officer at a checkpoint on the border between Beijing and Hebei province told Reuters.

*China has blamed Uighur separatists and religious extremists for a series of attacks over the years in Xinjiang, saying they want to establish an independent state called East Turkestan*.

However, *the unrest has never before spilled over into the nation's capital*, despite speculation in 1997 that Uighurs were to blame for a Beijing bus bomb in which at least two died.

A state newspaper reported in July that the government *suspected Syrian opposition forces were training extremists from Xinjiang to carry out attacks in China.*

"They have been known to carry out attacks outside of Xinjiang," said Yang Shu, a terrorism expert at China's Lanzhou University.

"*There have also been reports that East Turkestan elements have received training in Syria, so I would say the possibility does exist of a Xinjiang connection," he added.*

The Beijing police notice said that one of the suspects was from Piqan, called Shanshan in Chinese, about 250 km (150 miles) southeast of Xinjiang's capital Urumqi, where at least 35 people died in clashes with the police in June.

China denies mistreating any of its minority groups, saying they are guaranteed wideranging religious and cultural freedoms.

Many rights groups say China has long overplayed the threat posed to justify its tough controls in energy-rich Xinjiang, which lies strategically on the borders of Central Asia, India and Pakistan.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/29/uk-china-tiananmen-idUKBRE99S02T20131029


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## cnleio

Yes, the jeep with XinJiang's vehicle licence*, *three Uighurs inside that car.

2013-10-28 China police's inspection notice to check 4x suspicious vehicles from XinJiang. One jeep had burnt at Tianamen, now BeiJing policemen r tracking the rest of suspicious vehicles.


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## Destro

Lets call a spade a spade here.

A random car doesn't just crash right in front of the portrait of Chairman Mao.

This is the work of Islamic terrorists.

No need to sugar coat it.


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## Echo_419

Crush these Terrorists 
All the best from India


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## Audio

cnleio said:


>






> Location: www.fyjs.cn/bbs/attachments/Mon_1310/159_25369_ae7378597bb3c58.jpg
> 
> Access has been blocked as the threat Mal/HTMLGen-A has been found on this website.



lol.....i can't even see the pictures.


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## Azizam

This is a major blow that shouldn't be taken lightly. I think it's about time China should get tough with them once again. Good luck China on crushing terrorists.


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## cnleio

Audio said:


> lol.....i can't even see the pictures.


If u can read Chinese ...


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## Chaman_Lal

*Peng Yong relieved as military commander after Islamic extremists blamed for 28 October attack in Tiananmen Square*

A high-ranking military officer in western China was sacked days after a deadly attack in the heart of Beijing, suggesting that the incident may have rattled China's leadership enough to precipitate a political fallout.

On 28 October a white Mercedes-Benz sport-utility vehicle ploughed through a crowd in Tiananmen Square, crashed into a guardrail and exploded. The driver, his two passengers and two tourists died and 40 other people were injured.

General Peng Yong was removed from the Communist party standing committee in Xinjiang, the restive western region that was home to the driver, the state-run Xinjiang Daily said in a front-page article on Sunday.

He was replaced by Liu Lei, another high-ranking military official. The paper did not give explicit reasons for Peng's removal.

China's official newswire, Xinhua, called the crash a "carefully planned, organised and premeditated" attack and said authorities had arrested five suspects within hours. It identified the driver as Usmen Hasan, a 33-year-old ethnic Uighur from Xinjiang, and the passengers as his wife, Gulkiz Gini, and mother, Kuwanhan Reyim. It said that police found machetes and a flag showing "extreme religious content" in the vehicle's charred remains.

Xinjiang is a massive sprawl of desert, mountains and forests that borders eight countries including Pakistan, Afghanistan and India on China's westernmost frontier. It is home to nine million native Uighurs, a predominantly Muslim ethnic group which, according to advocacy groups, suffers from religious repression and economic marginalisation as the region is flooded by majority Han Chinese. Ethnic tensions occasionally flare into violence; in 2009 about 200 people died amid riots in the regional capital, Urumqi.

China has heightened security throughout Xinjiang since the attack, according to media reports. "Flights between Xinjiang and inland regions are currently under more stringent security checking," reported the state-run Global Times newspaper.

Citing local police, the BBC reported that security levels were raised and police were visiting "sensitive religious families". The Wall Street Journal reported that Hasan's home town, Lukqun, was in lockdown. Local authorities could not be reached for comment on Monday.

A raft of state media reports and editorials have cast the crash as an act of terrorism. Last week China's top security official, Meng Jianzhu, blamed the attack on the East Turkestan Islamic Movement, a Xinjiang-based Islamic fundamentalist group with ostensible ties to al-Qaida. No group has claimed responsibility for the attack.

Advocacy groups have disputed the official version of events, claiming the group lacks the resources to carry out an effective terrorist attack. "If the Uighurs did it, I believe they did it out of desperation because there is no channel for the Uighur people to seek redress for any kind of injustice they had suffered under Chinese rule," Rebiya Kadeer, leader of the international advocacy group World Uighur Congress (WUC), told Reuters. The Chinese government considers the WUC a terrorist organisation.

Nicholas Bequelin, senior Asia researcher at Human Rights Watch, said: "We have to recognise there is a terrorism issue, and there is political violence in Xinjiang. But at the same time, it is true that China is instrumentalising this terrorising to suppress the Uighur people [and] deny them basic rights."

*Bequelin said Chinese authorities were unwilling to admit that the centre of the terrorism threat lay within the country's borders. "If it's located inside of China, you have to ask yourself, is it because we have terrorists in Xinjiang? Which leads you to: why do these people have grievances? Which then opens up the whole issue of why Chinese policies are making Uighurs feel like strangers in their own land."*

China replaces top general in Xinjiang after Beijing attack | World news | The Guardian

...

How convenient of the Chinese to find the easiest exit door - what does the general have to do with the attacks? The area is not even in his jurisdiction. Farce china!


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## armchairPrivate

Buck Stops Here - President Truman

Since you made the OP, you probably thought it was wrong to sack the general. If that is the general mentality of the Indians, it may explain by your country is not progressing as well as the other countries in your region. Nobody was held responsible. Nobody was dismissed for dereliction of duty, misconduct, corruption, disobeying orders.

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## eazzy

How do they know it has anything to do with the incident in Beijing ?

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## Chaman_Lal

I would be grateful if any educated Chinese member can reply me the postal address of General Peng Pong so that this golden letter of hope and opportunities from India can reach him.



> Dear General Peng Pong,
> I write this letter to you from India - the largest democracy in the world. And given the strong suspicion in my mind about your paranoid government obfuscating our existence from you as well as billions of gullible Chinese citizens all along, let me inform you that we are your neighbors. We buy a lot of cheap plastic junk from your country, and after some minor processing, ship it to our backyard, i.e. Pakistan, for some profit. You see, the reason I'm writing you all these trivial details is because we, as a country, are a stakeholder in your country's well-being. It pains our collective conscious to read about all these atrocities that your bully government commits on the hard-working and innocent citizens like you. I mean, the heartless commie functionaries didn't even consider twice your decorated career - that I am sure must have spanned at least a few decades battling invisible monsters on the great wall of China - before pulling the rug from under your feet. The injustice saddens us immensely.
> 
> But as they say - there is a silver lining to every cloud. Yes, you guessed it right - we, the tolerant republic of India, are proud to offer you exciting and unmatchable career opportunities in our country. We believe that the deep experience and strategic acumen that you bring to the table cannot be overlooked. And to sweep away your trauma completely, we announce a 25 percent raise in your salary. And unlike your corrupt government that makes a sitting duck out of its respected generals every time a revolutionary group surfaces and strikes the incompetent establishment, you shall never encounter such a Kafkaesque absurdity in our graceful regime. To help you tilt your head completely to our proposal, let me add that your kids shall receive world-class education, boundless freedom, and democratic values in our liberal country. Now tell me - isn't that a reason to clap?
> 
> Please get in touch with our nearest embassy and the safety of your journey shall be taken care of.
> 
> Yours,
> Chaman Lal

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## rott

Chaman_Lal said:


> I would be grateful if any educated Chinese member can reply me the postal address of General Peng Pong so that this golden letter of hope and opportunities from India can reach him.



Please keep your dirty nose out of our business. BTW, when did the circus come to town?

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## Chaman_Lal

How is my nose dirty?


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## eazzy

You touch it with the same hand you use to wipe your anus after defecating. Damn Indians what's so good about shit ? Why do you need to touch it ?
If you want that general to be your master you better offer him some toilet paper  Not everyone follow Indians customs !

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## Chaman_Lal

I hope our abundant supply of cockroaches can compensate for the toilet papers?


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## eazzy

No lol don't do that, you need these cockroaches to eat the corpses of your relatives rotting on the streets, dams Indians, why don't you respect your relatives ?


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## agamdilawari

BEIJING: Police in China's restive far western region of Xinjiang shot dead 14 people during a riot late on Sunday in which two policemen were also killed, the regional government said on Monday. 

Police were attacked by a mob throwing explosive devices and wielding knives when they went to arrest "criminal suspects" in a village near the old Silk Road city of Kashgar, the government said on its official news portal Tianshan.

Riot in China's Xinjiang leaves 16 dead - The Times of India

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## Chronos

The rioters just made the biggest mistake of their lives.

Off to the re-education camps.


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## Kompromat

Post a credible source. Indian propaganda press is at it again.


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## sweetgrape

There has been a lot of killing from terrorist on police and innocent people in Xinjiang, China government must do more, kill them before they attacking us root them out, even crossing the border line, Kill the rioters with no mercy.

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## xuxu1457

新疆疏附县15日夜击毙14名暴徒 2名警察牺牲|疏附县|暴恐_凤凰资讯
Police were ambushed when arrested a suspect at deep night 23:00 15th Dec 2013, two policeman were killed, 14 terrorists were killed, 2 were arrested;

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## Chinese-Dragon

agamdilawari said:


> Police were attacked by a mob throwing explosive devices and wielding knives when they went to arrest "criminal suspects" in a village near the old Silk road city of Kashgar.



Terrorists attack police with explosives and knives, what do they expect, a pat on the head?

They are lucky to be killed so quickly, terrorists deserve far worse.

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## kya_haal_hai

These extremists people won't stop here now they're gonna go for Jihad in that area... 

I love how Chinese handle these matters


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## Edison Chen

疏附县（Kona Sheher）where Riot happens, is a county of Kashgar, one of the poorest part of Xinjiang. Kona Sheher has a population of 360,000, 350,000 of which are Uyghur, *more than 97% are Uyghur.*

In xinjiang, the richest part is always Han dominant, the poorest part is always Uyghur and minority dominant. Just like Karamay city, *Han people account for more than 81%*, it GDP per capital is nearly *$20,000 USD in 2011*. And Shihezi city, *Han people is more than 95%*, it's GDP per capital is *$8,366 USD*. While in Kashgar, GDP per capital is *only $1,600, *Uyghur and minority is more than 80%~90%.

Why riots happen? Poor. They cannot handle it. In China, Han is always tolerating them, give them financial aid, superior treatment over other Hans, like extra point bonus(or points deduction) in College Entrance Examination. But riots happen all the way.

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## Sasquatch

Excellent job by the police for shooting all 14 of the bastards dead and RIP to our 2 policemen.

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## anilindia

God job done by China police.... This has saved many innocent life...


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## xuxu1457

Aeronaut said:


> redible source. Indian propaganda pres





Edison Chen said:


> 疏附县（Kona Sheher）where Riot happens, is a county of Kashgar, one of the poorest part of Xinjiang. Kona Sheher has a population of 360,000, 350,000 of which are Uyghur, *more than 97% are Uyghur.*
> 
> In xinjiang, the richest part is always Han dominant, the poorest part is always Uyghur and minority dominant. Just like Karamay city, *Han people account for more than 81%*, it GDP per capital is nearly *$20,000 USD in 2011*. And Shihezi city, *Han people is more than 95%*, it's GDP per capital is *$8,366 USD*. While in Kashgar, GDP per capital is *only $1,600, *Uyghur and minority is more than 80%~90%.
> 
> Why riots happen? Poor. They cannot handle it. In China, Han is always tolerating them, give them financial aid, superior treatment over other Hans, like extra point bonus(or points deduction) in College Entrance Examination. But riots happen all the way.


You should change you fake flag, happenned in deep night after 23:00, one call for police and want to ambush the police, I don't think any normal one can call for police and let 16 men with weapons waiting for.......

For College Entrance Examination, Xinjiang has the second lowest entrance score in 33 province, only Qinghai lower than Xinjiang, in Guangdong province, you had to get 574 to enter a college, but in Xinjiang, you only get 443 can enter a college;
and for Minority students, every one can add another 10 scores on his own scores. 

In 2013, if the full score=100, you had to get a score line to enter college, score line:
Guangdong 76.5
Zhejiang 76.2
Shandong 73.9
Sichuan Province 74.9
Hebei 71.7
Shanghai 67.5
Hunan 66.0
Chongqing 69.3
Hainan 67.6
Liaoning Province 71.7
Beijing 73.3
Guangxi 68.0
Anhui 65.3
Shanxi Province 64.7
Tianjin 69.5
Jiangxi Province 68.9
Hubei 70.3
Guizhou 59.9
Yunnan 66.0
Henan 67.3
Fujian Province 66.8
Jiangsu Province 70.4
Jilin 71.3
Shanxi 65.7
Heilongjiang 70.3
Gansu Province 65.2
*Ningxia 60.7 
Tibet 62.7 
Inner Mongolia 64.3 
Xinjiang 59.1 
Qinghai 51.1 *


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## third eye

Aeronaut said:


> Post a credible source. Indian propaganda press is at it again.



Google for more details.

*Riot in China’s Xinjiang leaves 16 dead*

*



*
Paramilitary police patrol a street in Kashgar last June after unrest. Beijing reported Monday that a riot had broken out and a number of protesters had been shot dead by police.

Riot in China’s Xinjiang leaves 16 dead | Toronto Star

BEIJING—Chinese police shot and killed 14 people during a riot near the old Silk Road city of Kashgar in which two policemen were also killed, the regional government said on Monday, in the latest incident of unrest in the far western region.

Police were attacked by a mob throwing explosive devices and wielding knives on Sunday when they went to arrest “criminal suspects” in a village near Kashgar in Xinjiang province, the government said on its official news portal Tianshan.

“Police responded decisively,” the government said in a brief statement, adding that two people had also been detained and that an investigation had been launched.

Reuters was unable to immediately reach government officials for comment.

At least nine civilians and two policemen were killed when a group of people armed with axes and knives attacked a police station also near Kashgar last month, state media has said.

China has stepped up security in Xinjiang after a vehicle ploughed into tourists on the edge of Beijing’s Tiananmen Square in October, killing the three people in the car and two bystanders.

China called the crash an attack carried out by Islamist militants from Xinjiang plotting holy war, and has reacted angrily to suggestions that it was because of frustration and anger over government repression of the region’s Muslims.

Many of Xinjiang’s Turkic-speaking, Muslim people chafe at restrictions on their culture, language and religion, although the government insists it grants them broad freedoms.

Xinjiang has been the scene of numerous incidents of unrest in recent years, which Beijing often blames on the separatist East Turkestan Islamic Movement, even though many experts and rights groups cast doubt on its existence as a cohesive group.

Many rights groups say China has long overplayed the threat posed to justify its tough controls in energy-rich Xinjiang, which lies strategically on the borders of Central Asia, India and Pakistan.


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## A.Rafay

Violent protesters need violent response! Good job Chinese police.

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## Snomannen

The 2 polices are our heroes.

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## sweetgrape

Edison Chen said:


> 疏附县（Kona Sheher）where Riot happens, is a county of Kashgar, one of the poorest part of Xinjiang. Kona Sheher has a population of 360,000, 350,000 of which are Uyghur, *more than 97% are Uyghur.*
> 
> In xinjiang, the richest part is always Han dominant, the poorest part is always Uyghur and minority dominant. Just like Karamay city, *Han people account for more than 81%*, it GDP per capital is nearly *$20,000 USD in 2011*. And Shihezi city, *Han people is more than 95%*, it's GDP per capital is *$8,366 USD*. While in Kashgar, GDP per capital is *only $1,600, *Uyghur and minority is more than 80%~90%.
> 
> Why riots happen? Poor. They cannot handle it. In China, Han is always tolerating them, give them financial aid, superior treatment over other Hans, like extra point bonus(or points deduction) in College Entrance Examination. But riots happen all the way.


Poor is one factor, not the main factors, I think, In China, there are many place are poor, even worse than Xinjiang, not outside third force, there will not be such many riots in Xinjiang, China government should not be afraid of arresting and killing the terrorist which provoke the riot cross the border, and cooperate with the bordered countries, killing them by any means!

Of course, the poor should be changed, building more rail there, more people can go there enjoy there beautiful scenery, and let the resident can profit from there abundant resource, hope han and Uyghur and other Chinese race become richer and richer.

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## Edison Chen

xuxu1457 said:


> You should change you fake flag, happenned in deep night after 23:00, one call for police and want to ambush the police, I don't think any normal one can call for police and let 16 men with weapons waiting for in deep night.......



I want to make a little modification: Not fake, it's false, understand, dumbass??

I've stayed in Xinjiang for more than 3 years, the truth is North Xinjiang where Han people is majority is the richest, South Xinjiang where minority is dominated is dirty poor.

I suggest you 找维族人买点切糕.

The true sadness is that Han people even can't speak for themselves!!! You flunkey.


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## Edison Chen

sweetgrape said:


> Poor is one factor, not the main factors, I think, In China, there are many place are poor, even worse than Xinjiang, not outside third force, there will not be such many riots in Xinjiang, China government should not be afraid of arresting and killing the terrorist which provoke the riot cross the border, and cooperate with the bordered countries, killing them by any means!
> 
> Of course, the poor should be changed, *building more rail there, more people can go there enjoy there beautiful scenery, and let the resident can profit from there abundant resource, hope han and Uyghur and other Chinese race become richer and richer.*



Yeah, that's what I thought government should try to do. Now HSR has been linked to Xinjiang, once the economic tie is fastened, Xinjiang will be more prosperous, there will be less roits, at least, theoretically it is feasible. 

I believe outside third force play a major role, religion is just a tool by them to destabilize China. Many brave Uyghur are also fighting against those terrorists, that's good news. They understand that destabilization will only harm themselves. 

The point here is religion was being abused as a tool, and at the same time, we do really respect freedom of religion. Once we use forcible arms to suppress them, trolls and some minorities who don't under the real fact would say that we are not respectful to them. That's also what we should focus on, besides economy construction.

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## Black Widow

A.Rafay said:


> Violent protesters need violent response! Good job Chinese police.




Some one left Islam for China...

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## jhungary

Some time I wish we all can use mob rules on terrorist, but the extreme liberal in our country have always have a bleeding hard to those terrorist bastard...

Yet when we lock up suspect terrorist in Gitmo and people keep yelling out to let them out. Lol

Sometime, a violent problem can only have a violent solution. Nothing else works

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## Chinese-Dragon

sweetgrape said:


> Poor is one factor, not the main factors, I think, In China, there are many place are poor, even worse than Xinjiang, not outside third force, there will not be such many riots in Xinjiang, China government should not be afraid of arresting and killing the terrorist which provoke the riot cross the border, and cooperate with the bordered countries, killing them by any means!
> 
> Of course, the poor should be changed, building more rail there, more people can go there enjoy there beautiful scenery, and let the resident can profit from there abundant resource, hope han and Uyghur and other Chinese race become richer and richer.



That's very true. 

There are a LOT of people in the world who are poor, but they never become terrorists. 

In fact a lot of the most famous terrorists in the world are billionaires, like Osama Bin Laden.

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## Ayush

good job


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## S10

Being poor is simply an excuse used by these groups to justify their actions. Rebiya Kadeer was a wealthy businesswoman thanks for government's support, yet she turned out to be a separatist leader. Fundamentally, the issue will have to be resolved through forceful assimilation into mainstream Chinese society. Ban all religious schools and foreign funding from Saudi Arabia. Impose mandatory Chinese language education in all educational and public institutions. Punish anyone associated with separatist activities harshly.

You don't see Americans natives having "separatist" problems. The Americans damn near hunted them to extinction and drove them into little concentration camps....oops I mean reservations. Now they got the guts to lecture China on "minority rights"?

Don't make me laugh.

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## Chinese-Dragon

S10 said:


> Being poor is simply an excuse used by these groups to justify their actions. Rebiya Kadeer was a wealthy businesswoman thanks for government's support, yet she turned out to be a separatist leader.



Exactly.

Guizhou is the poorest province in all of China, yet how many terrorist attacks are there in Guizhou?

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## Pakistanisage

Black Widow said:


> Some one left Islam for China...





Get a life, Indian Troller.....

Don't rejoice in other Peoples misery. Shameful.

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## vostok

I'll bet that the true leaders of the riots live in London or the U.S..
In London, at any time, you can find the government for any separatist region of the world.

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## KRAIT

Aeronaut said:


> Post a credible source. Indian propaganda press is at it again.


Everything is propaganda for you.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Terrorists attack police with explosives and knives, what do they expect, a pat on the head?
> They are lucky to be killed so quickly, terrorists deserve far worse.


Where are these terrorists trained ?

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## blood

respect for chinese police , this is how these scums must be treated 
indian police must learn something..


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## itaskol

KRAIT said:


> Where are these terrorists trained ?


what is your intension to ask this question?


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## blood

Black Widow said:


> Some one left Islam for China...


hypocrisy brother hypocrisy , what else do you expect ? 
had this thing happened in kashmir....

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## Chinese-Dragon

KRAIT said:


> Where are these terrorists trained ?



Officially, they are being trained somewhere in the lawless Af-Pak border regions.

Some of them were even caught in Afghanistan and sent to Guantanamo Bay.

Unofficially, who knows.

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## KRAIT

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Officially, they are being trained somewhere in the lawless Af-Pak border regions.
> Some of them were even caught in Afghanistan and sent to Guantanamo Bay.
> Unofficially, who knows.


China had raised this issue many times in front of Pakistan in the past. 
*Beijing Points to Pakistan After Ethnic Violence*
China Points to Pakistan in Xinjiang Attack - WSJ.com



itaskol said:


> what is your intension to ask this question?


Intention is to ask you where these terrorists are trained because you are facing the same problem like we are.

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## Chinese-Dragon

KRAIT said:


> China had raised this issue many times in front of Pakistan in the past.
> *Beijing Points to Pakistan After Ethnic Violence*
> China Points to Pakistan in Xinjiang Attack - WSJ.com



That statement was from the local Xinjiang Government.

It has since been overruled by the National Government.

From your same source, but one month later:

Xinjiang Doesn't See Foreign Link in Attacks - WSJ.com

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## blood

KRAIT said:


> Everything is propaganda for you.
> 
> 
> *Where are these terrorists trained ?*



in 2006 American forces captured 22 uyghur terrorist from afghanistan and pakistan , and they were linked to al-qaeda , FYI



Chinese-Dragon said:


> Officially, they are being trained somewhere in the lawless Af-Pak border regions.
> 
> *Some of them were even caught in Afghanistan and sent to Guantanamo Bay.*
> 
> Unofficially, who knows.


yes in 2006 by american forces , but they were not sent back to CHINA due to human rights issues , 

i think china needs to understand the situation and partner with india on counter terrorism, under modi governance you can't get a better partner than india when it comes to fighting terrorism , at least far better than USA and so called friend pakistan , you will be doing irreversible damage to your own country by supporting pakistan on kashmir issue , bcz the kashmir based militants that pakistanies support have similar agenda which the uyghur terrorist have.

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## Chinese-Dragon

blood said:


> yes in 2006 by american forces , but they were not sent back to CHINA due to human rights issues



Human rights for terrorists, fantastic. 

They've got a reason to be worried though, terrorists don't last long in China.

These two Uyghur terrorists tried to hijack a plane recently, and they were beaten to death by the *passengers* before the plane had even landed.

BBC News - Two 'plane hijackers' die in China's Xinjiang



> *Two men who allegedly tried to hijack a plane in China's restive Xinjiang region have died, state media report.
> 
> The Global Times, citing unnamed officials, said the men had died "from injuries received in a fight with passengers and crew".*

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## blood

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Human rights for terrorists, fantastic.
> 
> They've got a reason to be worried though, terrorists don't last long in China.
> 
> These two Uyghur terrorists tried to hijack a plane recently, and they were beaten to death by the *passengers* before the plane had even landed.
> 
> BBC News - Two 'plane hijackers' die in China's Xinjiang



and that is something which we indian 100% appreciate and admire about china and israel , the manner in which you deal with terrorist.

these human rights dogs will jump in to defend terrorists and rapists , they did that even for the nirbhaya rapists who were given death sentence ,

under modi's rule at least one thing we can guarantee to chinese national , india won't be a bredding ground for these uyghur terrorist,

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## itaskol

KRAIT said:


> Intention is to ask you where these terrorists are trained because you are facing the same problem like we are.


There are indeed some of uyguren terrorist trained in South Asia coutry.
Officially we only call it South Asia country

South Asia countries can also be Indian


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## Gautam

We should learn a thing or two from China about how to deal with such low lives 

I am happy that China killed them on spot. Good news.

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## HariPrasad

blood said:


> respect for chinese police , this is how these scums must be treated
> indian police must learn something..




They are innocent people victim of CCP goons. If they are culprit why police didn't caught them and tried in court? RIP Innocent civilians.


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## Roybot

Someone is definitely fomenting trouble in Xinjiang, however the Chinese response should be controlled, or this has a potential to get out of hand. 

Shooting people armed with just knives is a bit too much I reckon.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Roybot said:


> Someone is definitely fomenting trouble in Xinjiang, however the Chinese response should be controlled, or this has a potential to get out of hand.
> 
> Shooting people armed with just knives is a bit too much I reckon.



Did you not read the OP?

They were "throwing explosive devices and wielding knives".

If someone throws a bomb at you, then I'm sure you'll be fine with it, since you'll be dead.

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## Gautam

Roybot said:


> Someone is definitely fomenting trouble in Xinjiang, however the Chinese response should be controlled, or this has a potential to get out of hand.
> 
> Shooting people armed with just knives is a bit too much I reckon.


Nothing wrong with it (my personal thinking). May be thats one of the reasons why China having the upper hand in dealing with terrorism. We should do the same.

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## Roybot

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Did you not read the OP?
> 
> They were "throwing explosive devices and wielding knives".
> 
> If someone throws a bomb at you, then I'm sure you'll be fine with it, since you'll be dead.



It was prolly molotov cocktails, had it really been heavy explosives all the police officers would be dead, and they wouldn't have been to able to shoot 14 of them dead. It is bit high handed if you think about it. Such high handedness is just going to antagonize the restive Uyghurs even more.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Roybot said:


> It was prolly molotov cocktails, had it really been heavy explosives all the police officers would be dead, and they wouldn't have been to able to shoot 14 of them dead. It is bit high handed if you think about it. Such high handedness is just going to antagonize the restive Uyghurs even more.



I guess that is why India is in the top 5 countries most affected by terrorism, while China is not even in the top 20 or anywhere close.

Obviously your soft-handedness with the terrorists has cost you badly, you're just one level behind Afghanistan and Pakistan in terms of terrorist risk. And both those countries are in the middle of a war.

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## Truth Finder

Good.


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## A little dragon

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Exactly.
> 
> Guizhou is the poorest province in all of China, yet how many terrorist attacks are there in Guizhou?


 No body,I come from GuiZhou(贵州)

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## Chinese-Dragon

Roybot said:


> It was prolly molotov cocktails, had it really been heavy explosives all the police officers would be dead, and they wouldn't have been to able to shoot 14 of them dead. It is bit high handed if you think about it. Such high handedness is just going to antagonize the restive Uyghurs even more.



Have you ever seen a Molotov cocktail? It isn't an explosive in any sense of the word, there is some limited expansion of gasses and fuel, but it's not an explosive material. At most you could say it's a "fire bomb" or a "petrol bomb" in slang terms, though it's still not an explosive in any sense.

It is basically a glass bottle filled with flammable liquid, and with usually some other ingredient mixed into make it "sticky" like a rudimentary form of napalm.

Not an explosive device. The explosive device in question would most likely have been a rudimentary pipe-bomb, due to the ease of making one and it's sheer effectiveness.


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## A little dragon

A little dragon said:


> No body,I come from GuiZhou(贵州)





Chinese-Dragon said:


> Did you not read the OP?
> 
> They were "throwing explosive devices and wielding knives".
> 
> If someone throws a bomb at you, then I'm sure you'll be fine with it, since you'll be dead.


 
哥们儿，咋贴头像啊？

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## blood

HariPrasad said:


> They are innocent people victim of CCP goons. If they are culprit why police didn't caught them and tried in court? RIP Innocent civilians.


how can you be so sure they are innocent!
you don't understand what is the policy of these muslim fundamentalist , 
break the nation in the name of religion , spread terrorism , encourage conversion , encourage civil disobedience , break laws etc etc 
this is what they are doing in india !
its high time india and china collaborate and drive these thugs out of our region

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## Truth Finder

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Have you ever seen a Molotov cocktail? It isn't an explosive in any sense of the word, there is some limited expansion of gasses and fuel, but it's not an explosive material. At most you could say it's a "fire bomb" or a "petrol bomb" in slang terms, though it's still not an explosive in any sense.
> It is basically a glass bottle filled with flammable liquid, and with usually some other ingredient mixed into make it "sticky" like a rudimentary form of napalm.


You are going the right thing. Such violence can only be countered by counter violence.


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## Chinese-Dragon

A little dragon said:


> 哥们儿，咋贴头像啊？



Click on your username in the top right corner of the page, and go to "Avatar".


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## Roybot

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Have you ever seen a Molotov cocktail? It isn't an explosive in any sense of the word, there is some limited expansion of gasses and fuel, but it's not an explosive material. At most you could say it's a "fire bomb" or a "petrol bomb" in slang terms, though it's still not an explosive in any sense.



Yes I have, but the news doesn't say what exactly killed the policeman. Whether it was the explosion or knife wounds. Either case, its not hard for armed police to subdue bunch of knife wielding rag tag thugs, without having to kill them.

China says Xinjiang police station attacked by axe, knife-wielding mob, 11 dead| Reuters

And this is not the first incident of this kind mind you, this seems like the _modus operandi_ of the Chinese police in that region, finish them off instead of arresting them.

China's method is working for it right now, but it has potential to further aggravate the issue and antagonize the Uyguurs, especially the silent dormant majority. And you just never know how the geopolitics will change in the future and next thing you know Xinjiang will become the next Kashmir, Palestine, Syria, where Jihadis from world over will start converging to wage their "holy war".


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## HariPrasad

blood said:


> how can you be so sure they are innocent!
> you don't understand what is the policy of these muslim fundamentalist ,
> break the nation in the name of religion , spread terrorism , encourage conversion , encourage civil disobedience , break laws etc etc
> this is what they are doing in india !
> its high time india and china collaborate and drive these thugs out of our region




Muslims do not live in China. We have at least 10 to 20 times Muslims than what China have. Will anybody support such killing of Muslims in large numbers?


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## xuxu1457

I said that many times, terrorists in China only have one time to do something, or will be shoot or arrested, most are reported by general Uighurs and other ethnics to police, we must let our general Uighurs Chinese become richer and richer, another hand is resolutely attacking terrorists; And helping our west neighbor stable and attack terrorists in their own countries.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Roybot said:


> *China's method is working for it right now*, but it has potential to further aggravate the issue and antagonize the Uyguurs, especially the silent dormant majority. And you just never know how the geopolitics will change in the future and next thing you know Xinjiang will become the next Kashmir, Palestine, Syria, where Jihadis from world over will start converging to wage their "holy war".



So our way is working, and your way is not.

Shouldn't policies be result-orientated?

Or do you believe you have a "long term" policy, and that this kind of Islamic extremism will naturally reduce in India as it develops? I've got some bad news for you then, this kind of stuff gets worse in this stage of development.

Maybe when you're in a developed country you can imagine letting these things die down by themselves. But at this stage of development it's not going to work.


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## blood

HariPrasad said:


> Muslims do not live in China. We have at least 10 to 20 times Muslims than what China have. Will anybody support such killing of Muslims in large numbers?


nobody is supporting killing of muslims , we are talking about muslim terrorists !

and that shouldn't be an argument to tolerate their nonsense , when the same guys enter a temple and kill innocent devotees or bomb a public place we blame our security forces , going soft on these terrorist not only encourages them but also breaks the confidence of our security forces who risk their lifes to fight these parasites.

when we say shoot the terrorists , its applicable for every community , be it the naxals in the tribal region , LTTE in south or the khalistan in punjab , a terrorist is a terrorist , no mercy for them

if you listen to the speeches given by the mullah brigade in kashmir you would be the first one to support this chinese action on these muslim terrorist , if we give them a free hand out of compassion they will turn our country in another afghanistan,

ps: agreed china has less muslims but also very few religious people , thats bcz they have actively promoted atheism and nationalism , something which these uyghur mullahs oppose , something that we must learn from them.

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## HariPrasad

blood said:


> nobody is supporting killing of muslims , we are talking about muslim terrorists !
> 
> and that shouldn't be an argument to tolerate their nonsense , when the same guys enter a temple and kill innocent devotees or bomb a public place we blame our security forces , going soft on these terrorist not only encourages them but also breaks the confidence of our security forces who risk their lifes to fight these parasites.
> 
> when we say shoot the terrorists , its applicable for every community , be it the naxals in the tribal region , LTTE in south or the khalistan in punjab , a terrorist is a terrorist , no mercy for them
> 
> if you listen to the speeches given by the mullah brigade in kashmir you would be the first one to support this chinese action on these muslim terrorist , if we give them a free hand out of compassion they will turn our country in another afghanistan,
> 
> ps: china not has less muslims but also very few religious people , thats bcz they have been actively promoted atheism and nationalism , something which these uyghur mullahs oppose , something that we must learn from them.




Terrorist are one who comes with an intention to kill one with whom there was no enmity. Those so called terrorist were not carrying Machine guns and bombs. They had knife at the most. They could have been caught easily. 

This is an initial stage of unrest. After some time the so called terrorist will also become sophisticated and shall carry out sophisticated attacks and CCP army shall not be able to content them.


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## blood

HariPrasad said:


> Terrorist are one who comes with an intention to kill one with whom there was no enmity. Those so called terrorist were not carrying Machine guns and bombs. They had knife at the most. They could have been caught easily.
> 
> This is an initial stage of unrest. After some time the so called terrorist will also become sophisticated and shall carry out sophisticated attacks and CCP army shall not be able to content them.


THEY HAD KNIFES AND NOT GUNS SIMPLY BCZ THEY DIN'T HAD ANY ACCESS TO, 
ONCE YOU GIVE THEM A FREE HAND THEY WILL ARRIVE WITH A BAZOOKA , SOMETHING WHICH THE TALIBS CARRY

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## A little dragon

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Click on your username in the top right corner of the page, and go to "Avatar".


 Thank U.My english is poor !

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## Chinese-Dragon

A little dragon said:


> Thank U.My english is poor !



No problem buddy, we are here to learn.

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## Truth Finder

A little dragon said:


> Thank U.My english is poor !


And, many of us are taught English as our mother tongue.  We are ready to help the Chinese people.


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## Parul

RIP Soldiers - May Your Families find Solace in your Sacrifice for the Motherland !

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## KRAIT

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I guess that is why India is in the top 5 countries most affected by terrorism, while China is not even in the top 20 or anywhere close.
> Obviously your soft-handedness with the terrorists has cost you badly, you're just one level behind Afghanistan and Pakistan in terms of terrorist risk. And both those countries are in the middle of a war.


Its because of indifference among Indians and their short term memory.

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## HariPrasad

blood said:


> THEY HAD KNIFES AND NOT GUNS SIMPLY BCZ THEY DIN'T HAD ANY ACCESS TO,
> ONCE YOU GIVE THEM A FREE HAND THEY WILL ARRIVE WITH A BAZOOKA , SOMETHING WHICH THE TALIBS CARRY




They will be armed with lathal weapon very shortly. China is not strong as it seems. Once they come down to a stage of either kill or get kill, they will get what ever they want. It is batter if china talk to them and address their concern. However CCP regime is not wise enough.


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## elis

Ready China for JEW USA freedom with Al Qaeda, Falung gong psychos?

You'd better help Iran destroy Israhell if you don't want futher problems

Because when their democrats parasite your citites, you will be obliged to bomb yourself


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## rott

@Chinese-Dragon, love your signature. hehe....

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## itaskol

HariPrasad said:


> They will be armed with lathal weapon very shortly. China is not strong as it seems. Once they come down to a stage of either kill or get kill, they will get what ever they want. It is batter if china talk to them and address their concern. However CCP regime is not wise enough.


talk to terrorists? Like India talk with Maoist terrorist? No way
We should cut their root down


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## 1916777029

在这里评论的是不是大部分中国人？我看来自的国家大部分是中国！
Many Chinese here? For the first time, your advice. Not English, use translation software, don't know right?


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## HariPrasad

itaskol said:


> talk to terrorists? Like India talk with Maoist terrorist? No way
> We should cut their root down




You are killing the rioters on the name of terrorist. This will make them real terrorist to whom you will find very difficult to content.


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## itaskol

HariPrasad said:


> You are killing the rioters on the name of terrorist. This will make them real terrorist to whom you will find very difficult to content.


they are already terrorists
no need mercy.


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## HariPrasad

itaskol said:


> they are already terrorists
> no need mercy.




GET READY FOR SUICIDE ATTACK VERY SOON.


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## kankan326

HariPrasad said:


> GET READY FOR SUICIDE ATTACK VERY SOON.


Do you think mercy can eliminate terrorists? No. You can not treat terrorist as human being. They are cool blooded animals. For them, mercy is regarded as weak and encourages them to be more mad. They are mentally incurable. No fear, no mercy, no human feeling, just like zombies. Shoot them in head.


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## Imran Khan

now muslims will say nothing . still i am with china you know why ???? all weather friend

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## A little dragon

Truth Finder said:


> And, many of us are taught English as our mother tongue.  We are ready to help the Chinese people.


 thank u

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## Sunny009

Chinese are indeed lucky to have Pakistan as your all weather friend..Otherwise all hell would have broke loose from the thekedars of Islam and its followers.. Good on you China...


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## scherz

I dont know the situation in China. Do the minorities like Uighurs and Tibetans still have more rights then Han-Chinese? Whats their privilege?
Why are Han-Chinese treated like second class citizens... its like Han-Chinese will always be kind of second class citizen, every where on this planet. Unless you get another national pass.
Thats very sad actually.


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## Water Car Engineer

You cant be a pussy with terrorists. You give them no room to breath.


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## HariPrasad

kankan326 said:


> Do you think mercy can eliminate terrorists? No. You can not treat terrorist as human being. They are cool blooded animals. For them, mercy is regarded as weak and encourages them to be more mad. They are mentally incurable. No fear, no mercy, no human feeling, just like zombies. Shoot them in head.




No not mercy Justice. Your governments goon like behavior is not going to help. Countdown begins. We shall meet after one year on this forum. They may be cold bloded animals but not as dangerous as your police.


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## bolo

Ravi Nair said:


> The rioters just made the biggest mistake of their lives.
> 
> Off to the re-education camps.


More like off to the morgue.



sweetgrape said:


> Poor is one factor, not the main factors, I think, In China, there are many place are poor, even worse than Xinjiang, not outside third force, there will not be such many riots in Xinjiang, China government should not be afraid of arresting and killing the terrorist which provoke the riot cross the border, and cooperate with the bordered countries, killing them by any means!
> 
> Of course, the poor should be changed, building more rail there, more people can go there enjoy there beautiful scenery, and let the resident can profit from there abundant resource, hope han and Uyghur and other Chinese race become richer and richer.


The poor should learn to speak Mandarin and become more educated instead of going to religious school of they want to succeed in life. Can you or any overseas Chinese succeed if we don't learn the host country's language? Next to opening up business or committing crime, its NO.


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## bolo

Edison Chen said:


> 疏附县（Kona Sheher）where Riot happens, is a county of Kashgar, one of the poorest part of Xinjiang. Kona Sheher has a population of 360,000, 350,000 of which are Uyghur, *more than 97% are Uyghur.*
> 
> In xinjiang, the richest part is always Han dominant, the poorest part is always Uyghur and minority dominant. Just like Karamay city, *Han people account for more than 81%*, it GDP per capital is nearly *$20,000 USD in 2011*. And Shihezi city, *Han people is more than 95%*, it's GDP per capital is *$8,366 USD*. While in Kashgar, GDP per capital is *only $1,600, *Uyghur and minority is more than 80%~90%.
> 
> Why riots happen? Poor. They cannot handle it. In China, Han is always tolerating them, give them financial aid, superior treatment over other Hans, like extra point bonus(or points deduction) in College Entrance Examination. But riots happen all the way.


Poor is just an excuse for violence. Most overseas Chinese were poor in the 70s and 80s but you dont see them rioting. Hardwork, financial discipline, education is a proven way. These Uighurs are just lazy, uneducated. You cant be too successful being that way.


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## Glorino

What is happening in Xinjiang-why this kolaveri-kolaveri-The people of Xinjiang feel alienated as they are unable to enjoy the fruits of development-Han Chinese have colonised the place and look down on the indigenous people- many prosperous towns are populated by Han Chinese.Chinese have taken these steps to check Pakistani infiltration into Xinjiang to avert what is called "a sweeter than honey relationship"Pakistan is better placed to administer and offer advice to Chinese Hans.This is my view


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## Edison Chen

bolo said:


> Poor is just an excuse for violence. Most overseas Chinese were poor in the 70s and 80s but you dont see them rioting. Hardwork, financial discipline, education is a proven way. These Uighurs are just lazy, uneducated. You cant be too successful being that way.



Yes. In China, most Chinese are poor especially during 1959~1962 and the whole 60s and 70s, but they are really most hardworking people in the world. Don't know much about oversea Chinese, but there is not too much difference, it's our proud national spirit.


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## faithfulguy

HariPrasad said:


> No not mercy Justice. Your governments goon like behavior is not going to help. Countdown begins. We shall meet after one year on this forum. They may be cold bloded animals but not as dangerous as your police.



This is the kind of thinking that invite terror against India.


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## HariPrasad

faithfulguy said:


> This is the kind of thinking that invite terror against India.



But China do not have that thinking and still you have to kill 14 people in encounter without bringing them to Justice. it seems that a country which has a high respect for Human right (US) have not taught you anything.


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## kankan326

HariPrasad said:


> But China do not have that thinking and still you have to kill 14 people in encounter without bringing them to Justice. it seems that a country which has a high respect for Human right (US) have not taught you anything.


US police will shoot anyone without any hesitate who attempts to attack them with any kind of weapon.



Glorino said:


> What is happening in Xinjiang-why this kolaveri-kolaveri-The people of Xinjiang feel alienated as they are unable to enjoy the fruits of development-Han Chinese have colonised the place and look down on the indigenous people- many prosperous towns are populated by Han Chinese.Chinese have taken these steps to check Pakistani infiltration into Xinjiang to avert what is called "a sweeter than honey relationship"Pakistan is better placed to administer and offer advice to Chinese Hans.This is my view


Compared to Hans, Uyghurs are late comers of Xinjiang. Hans may despise some Uyghurs. Not because they are minorities, but the way they act.

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## HariPrasad

kankan326 said:


> US police will shoot anyone without any hesitate who attempts to attack them with any kind of weapon.



Nonsense.


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## faithfulguy

HariPrasad said:


> But China do not have that thinking and still you have to kill 14 people in encounter without bringing them to Justice. it seems that a country which has a high respect for Human right (US) have not taught you anything.



Actually, US government is taking away the rights of average citizens. But it is giving lots of rights to terrorists. Its kind of mess up. China is hard against terrorists and that would send a message. As for its lack of freedom to its own people, its up to its own people to make the change at their own time. That is their own business.


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## INDIC

faithfulguy said:


> Actually, US government is taking away the rights of average citizens. But it is giving lots of rights to terrorists. Its kind of mess up. China is hard against terrorists and that would send a message. As for its lack of freedom to its own people, its up to its own people to make the change at their own time. That is their own business.



China is suppressing religious freedom like banning fasting during Ramadan instead of fighting terrorism.

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## faithfulguy

INDIC said:


> China is suppressing religious freedom like banning fasting during Ramadan instead of fighting terrorism.



Any link to your statement?


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## INDIC

faithfulguy said:


> Any link to your statement?



I thought you knew about these things. Now, why does China's government feel threatened from religious festivals. 

China steps up campaign against Ramadan in Xinjiang | World news | theguardian.com
China curbs Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English
China restricts Ramadan fasting in restive Xinjiang - Australia Network News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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## faithfulguy

INDIC said:


> I thought you knew about these things. Now, why does China's government feel threatened from religious festivals.
> 
> China steps up campaign against Ramadan in Xinjiang | World news | theguardian.com
> China curbs Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English
> China restricts Ramadan fasting in restive Xinjiang - Australia Network News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)



I don't see a blanket banning of Ramadan. They discourage people does not mean banning. But they do request that the party members, who are suppose to be atheists, to not observe Ramadan. That is a party order, not a general ban on the religious activity.

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## HariPrasad

faithfulguy said:


> Actually, US government is taking away the rights of average citizens. But it is giving lots of rights to terrorists. Its kind of mess up. China is hard against terrorists and that would send a message. As for its lack of freedom to its own people, its up to its own people to make the change at their own time. That is their own business.




Se there should be a proportionate response to everything. Response should be Just. Chinese response was unjustifiable. 

You are right when you say " US government is taking away the rights of average citizens. But it is giving lots of rights to terrorists". We show the same in case of Twine tower attack. They build mosque there.


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## faithfulguy

HariPrasad said:


> Se there should be a proportionate response to everything. Response should be Just. Chinese response was unjustifiable.
> 
> You are right when you say " US government is taking away the rights of average citizens. But it is giving lots of rights to terrorists". We show the same in case of Twine tower attack. They build mosque there.



Actually, I'm against interfering in other people's businesses. How Chinese respond its their business. But lets put it this way, if China would send tanks against their students, how do you think they would treat real criminals or terrorists?


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## INDIC

faithfulguy said:


> I don't see a blanket banning of Ramadan. They discourage people does not mean banning. But they do request that the party members, who are suppose to be atheists, to not observe Ramadan. That is a party order, not a general ban on the religious activity.



You are trying to be apologist, no surprise. You seems to be supporting banning of core religious practices of the Muslims. I also can't understand the logic, why PRC is so threatened from a festival of Muslims.


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## HariPrasad

faithfulguy said:


> Actually, I'm against interfering in other people's businesses. How Chinese respond its their business. But lets put it this way, if China would send tanks against their students, how do you think they would treat real criminals or terrorists?




That is exactly I say. Uncivilized CCP goons denying basic human rights to people. If they stop killing people and deal with people democratically, people will also protest in democratic manner rather than using swords and knifes.


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## kankan326

HariPrasad said:


> That is exactly I say. Uncivilized CCP goons denying basic human rights to people. If they stop killing people and deal with people democratically, people will also protest in democratic manner rather than using swords and knifes.


I'm giving you a contrary example. There are Islam separatists in South Thailand too. Thailand is widely believed as a democratic country. Yet the deadly violence in there never stopped.

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## Shardul.....the lion

Islamic terrorist should be nipped in bud otherwise they spread like wildfire destroying entire countries like we have seen in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria and to some extent Indian state of Kashmir...

Way to go China..... but have a just response...

And I agree with one poster, had these axeweilding terrorist access to guns and bombs, they would have not refrained back and killed several police officers...

then again, I think Chinese posters should support India when Islamic terrorists attack Indian nation....


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## ephone

Re-education camps won't be for those terrorists. Hell is the only place for them.



Ravi Nair said:


> The rioters just made the biggest mistake of their lives.
> 
> Off to the re-education camps.


----------



## spark_chen

blood said:


> nobody is supporting killing of muslims , we are talking about muslim terrorists !
> 
> and that shouldn't be an argument to tolerate their nonsense , when the same guys enter a temple and kill innocent devotees or bomb a public place we blame our security forces , going soft on these terrorist not only encourages them but also breaks the confidence of our security forces who risk their lifes to fight these parasites.
> 
> when we say shoot the terrorists , its applicable for every community , be it the naxals in the tribal region , LTTE in south or the khalistan in punjab , a terrorist is a terrorist , no mercy for them
> 
> if you listen to the speeches given by the mullah brigade in kashmir you would be the first one to support this chinese action on these muslim terrorist , if we give them a free hand out of compassion they will turn our country in another afghanistan,
> 
> ps: agreed china has less muslims but also very few religious people , thats bcz they have actively promoted atheism and nationalism , something which these uyghur mullahs oppose , something that we must learn from them.


 
Muslims is not a problem for China, but the Muslims live in southwest of Xinjiang is a big problem. In fact there are many other minority Muslims distribute in other city where Han people dominant. Their ancestor have live with us for several hundred years. they almost have same habits and customs with us .For other those Muslims just our friend, classmate colleague or neighbor. The biggest problem for those Muslims is that when we feast those Muslims, we have to choose a halal restaurant.

And there are also many Uyghur Muslims live in north of Xinjiang (more than 1M). they live with Han , Kazak Mongolian and other minority. those Uyghur Muslims choose to accept modern education, They work hard to enter unniversity , get good job , earn more money for improve their life. they are also not a problem.

But in southwest of Xinjiang. In that region all people are Uyghur Muslims. They refuse to accept modern education. They like Religious schools, so they don't have enough knowledge to get a good job.

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## S10

Roybot said:


> Someone is definitely fomenting trouble in Xinjiang, however the Chinese response should be controlled, or this has a potential to get out of hand.
> 
> Shooting people armed with just knives is a bit too much I reckon.


Feel free to go disarm them with your bare hands. Did you conveniently missed the part about them attacking with explosives?


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## S10

> 天山网讯(记者田山报道) 12月30日6时30分许，9名暴徒持砍刀袭击新疆喀什地区莎车县公安局，投掷爆炸装置，纵火焚烧警车。公安民警果断处置，击毙8人，抓获1人。
> 
> 
> 相关情况正在进一步调查中。


新疆莎车处置1起暴袭案 警方击毙8人抓获1人|新疆|警方|抓获_新浪新闻

On Dec. 30th at 6:30pm, 9 attackers armed with knives and explosives attack the local police station in Shache County, in the Kashgar Prefecture. They tossed explosives at police and burned several police cars. Police killed 8 of the attackers and captured 1. Police casualties are unknown at this time and the incident is under investigation.

I'm guessing it's most likely Wahabist scums.


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## Imran Khan

its getting daily routine now a days


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## S10

Imran Khan said:


> its getting daily routine now a days


Started when China allowed Saudi funded religious schools in Xinjiang in the mid 1990's. Now religious extremism has displaced pan-Turkic nationalism as the driving force being Xinjiang separatists. I would like nothing less than slap the idiot who allowed external religious influence to flow into Xinjiang. Now more and more women are wearing face veils and men growing full beard.

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## itaskol

Imran Khan said:


> its getting daily routine now a days


soon the virgins in heaven will be out of stock.



S10 said:


> 新疆莎车处置1起暴袭案 警方击毙8人抓获1人|新疆|警方|抓获_新浪新闻
> 
> On Dec. 30th at 6:30pm, 9 attackers armed with knives and explosives attack the local police station in Shache County, in the Kashgar Prefecture. They tossed explosives at police and burned several police cars. Police killed 8 of the attackers and captured 1. Police casualties are unknown at this time and the incident is under investigation.
> 
> I'm guessing it's most likely Wahabist scums.


well done. 8 terrorist killed one captured. that is good.
kill the most and capture one should be *standard procedure*


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## xuxu1457

Happened in Shache County, only 130km from Afghanistan，I think such small group terrorists will go on untile Afghanistan keeping stable, but as I said that such terrorists in China only has one time to do something


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## Biplab Bijay

S10 said:


> 新疆莎车处置1起暴袭案 警方击毙8人抓获1人|新疆|警方|抓获_新浪新闻
> 
> On Dec. 30th at 6:30pm, 9 attackers armed with knives and explosives attack the local police station in Shache County, in the Kashgar Prefecture. They tossed explosives at police and burned several police cars. Police killed 8 of the attackers and captured 1. Police casualties are unknown at this time and the incident is under investigation.
> 
> I'm guessing it's most likely Wahabist scums.


so it has started.



S10 said:


> Started when China allowed Saudi funded religious schools in Xinjiang in the mid 1990's. Now religious extremism has displaced pan-Turkic nationalism as the driving force being Xinjiang separatists. I would like nothing less than slap the idiot who allowed external religious influence to flow into Xinjiang. Now more and more women are wearing face veils and men growing full beard.


you are absolutely correct.


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## rott

I did see a member mention about Islamic terrorist is said to be brave. Being stupidly brave isn't called brave. It's more to do with Stupidity. 
For instance, stupidity is explained, if and when a person charges with a knife/machete to a man wielding a gun. That's even worse than being STUPID. I hope one fine day people realize the difference between Stupidity and Bravery.


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## Kurama

Beijing: Eight attackers armed with knives and explosives have been killed during an assault on a police station in China's Xinjiang, according to authorities who have blamed terrorists for a string of deadly incidents in the largely Muslim region.

One of the attackers was held after the clash in Shache county, according to the official website of the government of Xinjiang, where mainly Muslim Uighurs are the largest ethnic group.

The website made no mention of any police casualties and said officials were conducting an investigation.

The area, about 200km southeast of Kashgar, is known as Yarkand in the Uighur language.

Authorities say terrorists have been responsible for a series of attacks this year in the sprawling and resource-rich region.

Rights groups and outside scholars, however, say unrest is spawned by cultural oppression, intrusive security measures and a wave of immigration by China's Han majority.

Xinjiang, a region more than four times the size of Japan, is rich in oil and natural gas.

Government economic policies aimed at developing the region have raised Uighur living standards, though Han dominance of the economy has helped foster continued resentment.

The latest violence came after 16 people, including two police officers, were killed in a clash near the city of Kashgar this month.

Authorities said that "thugs" armed with explosive devices and knives attacked police attempting to detain them, though exile group World Uyghur Congress described it as a "massacre" of a family preparing for a forthcoming wedding.

In late October, police said three Xinjiang Uighurs drove a vehicle into crowds of tourists opposite Beijing's Tiananmen Square - the symbolic heart of the Chinese state - killing two people and injuring 40, before crashing outside the Forbidden City and setting their vehicle ablaze. All three attackers died.

Beijing described the assault, the first blamed on Uighurs outside Xinjiang, as "terrorism" and said separatists backed by the militant East Turkestan Islamic Movement were responsible.

More than 190 "terrorist" attacks were logged in Xinjiang last year, state media reported. Xinjiang has seen regular violent incidents this year, including one in June in the Turpan area that left 35 people dead.

*8 terrorists killed in Xinjiang attack*
Eight terrorists were shot dead and another one captured by police during a terrorist attack early Monday morning in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, authorities said.

The nine terrorists attacked a police station wielding knives at around 6 am in Shache county in the Kashgar region. They also threw explosives and set police cars on fire.

Eight were shot dead at the scene. Another was caught by police, according to the Kashgar prefectural party committee.

The case is under further investigation.

8 terrorists killed in Xinjiang attack - CHINA - Globaltimes.cn

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## Parul

Good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

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## Azizam

Well done!


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## BoQ77

I don't think Chinese policemen too scared of a small group with knives, ...

actually, the policemen was told to shoot to death at those guys.


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## unitedstatesofislam

Why Pakistan and other so-called 'Islamic' parties not protesting against the oppression and atrocities of Chinese communist state on innocent Muslims of Xinjiang? Why Pakistan does not demand China to give Xinjiang's Muslims the right of self-determination the way it demands India vis-a-vis Kashmir as both are under occupation and are demanding freedom from oppressive rule of infidels. 

As Allama Iqbal very rightly said: 

ایک ہوں مسلم حرم کی پاسبانی کے لئے
نیل کے ساحل سے تا با خاکے *کاشغر *






BEIJING: Authorities in western China said Monday that police fatally shot eight ''terrorists'' who had attacked them using knives and explosives in the latest in a string of violent incidents in the ethnically tense region.

The Xinjiang government news portal Tianshan Net said that the group of nine attacked officers and burned police cars in Shache county, which is overseen by the famed Silk Road city of Kashgar.

It was the latest in a series of attacks pointing to growing unrest in the large sprawling region of Xinjiang, home to a simmering rebellion against Chinese rule among parts of the native Muslim Uighur population who want more autonomy from Beijing.

Recent clashes, including an attack on a police station last month, have left dozens of people dead.

A Xinjiang government press officer confirmed Monday's report but said he had no further information.

He gave only his surname, Cao. Police reached by phone in Shache and Kashgar said they had no information about the incident.

The Chinese government typically calls such incidents terrorist attacks linked to radicals based overseas, although there is little evidence that they are carefully organized.

Xinjiang is home to about 9 million Uighurs, who make up less than half of the population of Xinjiang, which they used to dominate.

Many complain that they have been marginalized by policies favoring migrants from China's ethnic Han majority.

Beijing says it treats all minorities fairly and spends billions of dollars on development and improving living standards in Xinjiang.

Tianshan Net said the police took ''resolute measures'' by shooting the eight and arresting one, adding the case was under further investigation.

Sweden-based Uighur activist Dilxat Raxit said Uighurs were being shot to death ''due to their discontent with China's policies.''

''To label the protesters as terrorists and shoot them to death is a new way of suppressing the Uighurs following China's judicial reforms,'' he said, referring to recent moves to improve the country's party-controlled justice system.

As well as a number of deadly clashes in Xinjiang this year, an attack in October struck at the heart of Beijing.

Three Uighurs drove a vehicle through crowds in front of iconic Tiananmen Gate, killing themselves and two tourists.

China says police kill eight 'terrorists' in Xinjiang - DAWN.COM

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## karan.1970

unitedstatesofislam said:


> Why Pakistan and other so-called 'Islamic' parties not protesting against the oppression and atrocities of Chinese communist state's on innocent Muslims of Xinjiang? Why Pakistan does not demand China to give Xinjiang's Muslims the right of self-determination.
> 
> Pakistan's behaviour towards China vis-a-vis Xinjiang should be the same as its behaviour towards India vis-a-vis Kashmir. Both are under occupation and are demanding freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BEIJING: Authorities in western China said Monday that police fatally shot eight ''terrorists'' who had attacked them using knives and explosives in the latest in a string of violent incidents in the ethnically tense region.
> 
> The Xinjiang government news portal Tianshan Net said that the group of nine attacked officers and burned police cars in Shache county, which is overseen by the famed Silk Road city of Kashgar.
> 
> It was the latest in a series of attacks pointing to growing unrest in the large sprawling region of Xinjiang, home to a simmering rebellion against Chinese rule among parts of the native Muslim Uighur population who want more autonomy from Beijing.
> 
> Recent clashes, including an attack on a police station last month, have left dozens of people dead.
> 
> A Xinjiang government press officer confirmed Monday's report but said he had no further information.
> 
> He gave only his surname, Cao. Police reached by phone in Shache and Kashgar said they had no information about the incident.
> 
> The Chinese government typically calls such incidents terrorist attacks linked to radicals based overseas, although there is little evidence that they are carefully organized.
> 
> Xinjiang is home to about 9 million Uighurs, who make up less than half of the population of Xinjiang, which they used to dominate.
> 
> Many complain that they have been marginalized by policies favoring migrants from China's ethnic Han majority.
> 
> Beijing says it treats all minorities fairly and spends billions of dollars on development and improving living standards in Xinjiang.
> 
> Tianshan Net said the police took ''resolute measures'' by shooting the eight and arresting one, adding the case was under further investigation.
> 
> Sweden-based Uighur activist Dilxat Raxit said Uighurs were being shot to death ''due to their discontent with China's policies.''
> 
> ''To label the protesters as terrorists and shoot them to death is a new way of suppressing the Uighurs following China's judicial reforms,'' he said, referring to recent moves to improve the country's party-controlled justice system.
> 
> As well as a number of deadly clashes in Xinjiang this year, an attack in October struck at the heart of Beijing.
> 
> Three Uighurs drove a vehicle through crowds in front of iconic Tiananmen Gate, killing themselves and two tourists.



That's the price Pakistan needs to pay for keeping its only supporter in the world on its side.. I was just reading another thread about the 6.5 billion USD nuclear aid China is providing to Pakistan. Guess we all now know the price for Pakistan's silence on the Uighur issue.. May be India can also work out a similar deal to buy Pakistan's silence on Kashmir

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## unitedstatesofislam

karan.1970 said:


> That's the price Pakistan needs to pay for keeping its only supporter in the world on its side.. I was just reading another thread about the 6.5 billion USD nuclear aid China is providing to Pakistan. Guess we all now know the price for Pakistan's silence on the Uighur issue.. May be India can also work out a similar deal to buy Pakistan's silence on Kashmir



No wonder an American diplomat very rightly commented about Pakistani rulers that they can even sell their mothers for a miserable sum of $$$.


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## PoKeMon

unitedstatesofislam said:


> No wonder an American diplomat very rightly commented about Pakistani rulers that they can even sell their mothers for a miserable sum of $$$.



Mate- rights, brotherhood, sympathy....these all terms means nothing for international relations and affairs.....they are just a cloak to cover up real intentions.


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## Tridibans

Good job China! Our spineless leaders and pseudo-NGOs should learn from them . I am quite sure after Modi becomes pm, India will deal with extremists in a similar manner.

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## Trichy

Great wrk by Chinese Police...

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## Snomannen

Wonderful, but on the other side, there were many people were killed in Russia.


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## RescueRanger

Why is this in Pakistani affairs? Chinese Uyghurs are China's internal matter.



karan.1970 said:


> May be India can also work out a similar deal to buy Pakistan's silence on Kashmir


And Indians on this thread, don't flatter yourself.


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## karan.1970

RescueRanger said:


> And Indians on this thread, don't flatter yourself.



I said Pakistan's silence can be bought.. And that reads as Indians flattering themselves to you??


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## RescueRanger

karan.1970 said:


> I said Pakistan's silence can be bought.. And that reads as Indians flattering themselves to you??



Clearly a comprehension issue on your part.


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## Kolaps

China need a US NSA domestic surveillance system.

They arrest people before it happened.


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## eazzy

You kill one person, ten other will start to fight against China. This is not the right thing to do, by killing them you do exactly what they want you to do, this is stupid.

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## Mech

*Four Uyghur Women Forced to Abort Their Babies in Xinjiang*

Four Uyghur women in China's troubled northwestern region of Xinjiang have been forced by authorities to undergo abortions—one of them nine months into her pregnancy—under Beijing's brutally-enforced one-child policy, local officials and parents said.

They were among six forced abortions that had been planned over the last week in Hotan prefecture in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, home to some 10 million mostly Muslim Uyghurs who say they have long suffered ethnic discrimination and oppressive religious controls under Beijing’s policies. 

"We had planned to perform forced abortions on six women. Four of them have already undergone the abortions," Eniver Momin, deputy chief of Hotan's Arish township where the mothers were injected with abortion-inducing drugs, told RFA's Uyghur Service.

"One more woman is waiting in hospital to undergo the abortion while another women has escaped before undergoing the process," Momin said.

He said that local authorities are considering whether to suspend performing forced abortions amid public concerns over the four cases.

Awat Han, head of the family planning department in Arish township, also confirmed with RFA that four forced abortions had been conducted over the last week, saying she was only following orders from the higher authorities bent on enforcing the controversial one-child policy introduced in the 1970's to curb population growth.

Under a new law passed last week, married couples in China will be permitted to have a second child if one spouse is an only child. Current regulations allow a second child in certain cases, including if both spouses are only children themselves.

As ethnic minorities, the Uyghurs are supposed to be exempt from the one-child policy.

*Baby born alive and then dies*

The depressed husband of one of the four women forced to undergo the abortions told RFA that his wife delivered their baby boy alive but he died an hour later.

Memettursun Kawul said they had been anxiously awaiting the birth of their son after having three daughters but township officials led by Awat Han had been forcing his wife to go to the hospital for an abortion since she was six months pregnant in November.

"We said that we were willing to pay a fine of 50,000 to 100,000 yuan [U.S. $8,250 to U.S. $16,500] but they refused," he said. 

"In November, my wife and I left the township and hid in Hotan city in one of my relatives' house, but Awat Han came to the place with two village policemen last week and took her to the Nurluq Hospital in Arish Township," he said.

"My wife was injected by doctors at 11 p.m. on Wednesday and she gave birth at 5 p.m. the next day. My son was crying when he was born."

Kawul said he stormed into the delivery room when he heard the cries of his son and wife, grabbed the baby and took him to a nearby hospital in a bid to save him.

"The doctors in the hospital tried to save him but failed, citing the abortion drug that had already been injected. My son died an hour after he was born."

Kawul said that at the Nurluq Hospital, where his wife is now recovering, another Uyghur woman was awaiting a forced abortion, identifying her as Rozihan Memet and her husband as Metkurban Nuri.

*Husband detained at police station*

Metkurban Nuri, the husband of another Uyghur woman who was forced to abort her baby four months into her pregnancy, said he and his wife had been hiding in Hotan city for a week but local family planning officials located them on Saturday.

He said he was detained at Arish police station for 24 hours and forced to agree to allow his wife to undergo an abortion at the Nurluq Hospital. 

The mostly Muslim Uyghurs in Xinjiang, which has seen a string of violent incidents in recent years, are supposed to be exempt from Beijing's one-child policy aimed largely at the majority Han Chinese, rights groups say.

"In reality, they [the Uyghurs] are subject to strict population control," said the U.S.-based Women's Rights Without Frontiers, an international coalition monitoring forced abortion, gendercide, and sexual slavery in China.

"If they live in the countryside, Uyghurs are allowed three children; in the city, they are allowed two," the group said. "Uyghurs who exceed this limit are subject to forced abortion, forced sterilization, and other coercive measures."

_*Reported by Shohret Hoshur for RFA's Uyghur Service. *_

Source: Four Uyghur Women Forced to Abort Their Babies in Xinjiang

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## karan.1970

RescueRanger said:


> Clearly a comprehension issue on your part.


Or a writing issue on yours


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## RescueRanger

karan.1970 said:


> Or a writing issue on yours


Nope thank's be to god people don't have trouble understanding what I write, but you clearly did. Kohi nahi, i will be extra careful to spell things out phonetically for you next time.


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## karan.1970

RescueRanger said:


> Nope thank's be to god people don't have trouble understanding what I write, but you clearly did. Kohi nahi, i will be extra careful to spell things out phonetically for you next time.



well, good to know that.. and thanks for the promise of extra effort on your part for my benefit. I am highly appreciative of that 

btw, is that you in your Profile Pic ?

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## Raphael

lol RFA.


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## Shardul.....the lion

killing terrorist and wiping out them is all good....

but this is sick from a government

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## twocents

Shardul.....the lion said:


> killing terrorist and wiping out them is all good....
> 
> but this is sick from a government



1. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is a US government-funded propaganda outfit. It is forbidden by US law to operate within the US. 
2. Ever since its inception China's one child policy has Never been applied to ethnic minorities including the Uighurs.
3. If you insist on treating RFA falsehood as the Gospel truth there is nothing anybody can do about it.

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## bolo

twocents said:


> 1. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is a US government-funded propaganda outfit. It is forbidden by US law to operate within the US.
> 2. Ever since its inception China's one child policy has Never been applied to ethnic minorities including the Uighurs.
> 3. If you insist on treating RFA falsehood as the Gospel truth there is nothing anybody can do about it.


 
Where are they operating in?


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## Jayanta

As expect no comments from those suffering from selective amnesia...

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## Fattyacids

Jayanta said:


> As expect no comments from those suffering from selective amnesia...



As expected, many comments from those with low intellect who considered article from RFA as a credible source.

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## S10

That's 8 less religious extremists in China. Muslims should thank us for getting rid of their garbage. These scums tarnish the reputation of most muslims. Innocent muslims do not attack police stations with explosives and knives. They don't go around burning police cars either.

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## itaskol

I am already angry that some medias use quotation marks on the word "Terrorist"
They are real terrorist, no need to use "".

If someone shout Allahu akbar and attacked you with knives and explosives, the only choice you have is shoot him down.

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## bolo

eazzy said:


> You kill one person, ten other will start to fight against China. This is not the right thing to do, by killing them you do exactly what they want you to do, this is stupid.


Huh? They tried to kill you with knives and you want to hug them? Killing them is the only sensible thing to do.



BoQ77 said:


> I don't think Chinese policemen too scared of a small group with knives, ...
> 
> actually, the policemen was told to shoot to death at those guys.


I think you're an idiot.

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## Lux de Veritas

The Afghanistan Taliban has been training and supporting the Uighurs and radicalizing them. China faces a big problem as she know that supporting Pakistan is indirectly supporting the Talibans.

Its not easy for Pakistan to severe relationship with Talibans and the ISI is still quite entangled with them.

Pakistan is the only all weather friend of China, and so far, China has been reluctant even to pull back help to Pakistan. Helping Pakistan will give strength to Taliban. The only thing China hope is Pakistan modernize in Ataturk ways, and do away with Islamism and that is a remote scenario.

The problem in Xinjiang and Kashmir is closely related. There are some suggestions that China can distabilize India by giving support to Kashmir. But China know that supporting Kashmir will acerbate Xinjiang's problem. 

Anyway there are no insurgency in Xinjiang yet, just low level of gangsterism.


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## Victory

*BEIJING: Authorities in western China said on Monday that police fatally shot eight “terrorists” who had attacked them using knives and explosives in the latest in a string of violent incidents in the ethnically tense region.*
The Xinjiang government news portal Tianshan Net said a group of nine attacked officers and burned police cars in Shache county, which is overseen by the famed Silk Road city of Kashgar.

It was the latest in a series of attacks pointing to growing unrest in the large sprawling region of Xinjiang, home to a simmering rebellion against Chinese rule among parts of the native Muslim Uighur population who want more autonomy from Beijing.

Recent clashes, including an attack on a police station last month, have left dozens of people dead.

A Xinjiang government press officer confirmed Monday’s report but said he had no further information.

He gave only his surname, Cao. Police reached by phone in Shache and Kashgar said they had no information about the incident.

The Chinese government typically calls such incidents terrorist attacks linked to radicals based overseas, although there is little evidence that they are carefully organised.


Chinese police shoot 8 Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang - thenews.com.pk


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## BoQ77

bolo said:


> Huh? They tried to kill you with knives and you want to hug them? Killing them is the only sensible thing to do.
> 
> 
> I think you're an idiot.



Ok You are wise guy, and we don't want to make friend with you


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## Jayanta

Police in China's restive Xinjiang region have shot dead eight people during a violent clash on Monday, a state news portal says.

The clash broke out when men armed with knives and explosives attacked a police station in Yarkand county, officials say. One person has also been arrested.

The violence comes two weeks after a riot in the region, which saw 16 people killed, including two police.

Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur minority group, sees sporadic clashes.

The government traditionally blames extremists for the violence. Uighur activists, on the other hand, point to ethnic tensions and tight Chinese control as triggers for violence.
Verifying reports from the region is difficult because the information flow out of Xinjiang is tightly controlled.

News of the latest clash first emerged on the state-run regional Tianshan news portal.

Officials described the people who attacked the police station in Yarkand, near the old silk road city of Kashgar, as "thugs carrying knives and throwing explosives".

It was not immediately clear if there were any police casualties. The incident is currently under investigation, officials say.

More than 100 people have been killed in Xinjiang this year in this and similar incidents, which Beijing blames on separatist "terrorists" from the Uighur group, says the BBC's John Sudworth in Shanghai.

In late October, five people were killed when a car ploughed into a crowd and then burst into flames in Beijing's Tiananmen Square.

Beijing called the incident a terrorist attack inspired by Xinjiang-linked extremists. Three people who died inside the car were identified by police as Xinjiang Uighurs.

BBC News - China police kill eight in Xinjiang clash


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## tranquilium

twocents said:


> 1. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is a US government-funded propaganda outfit. It is forbidden by US law to operate within the US.
> 2. Ever since its inception China's one child policy has Never been applied to ethnic minorities including the Uighurs.
> 3. If you insist on treating RFA falsehood as the Gospel truth there is nothing anybody can do about it.



I will have supplement your point 2. While ethnic minorities are not limited to one child, the family planning policy applies to them as well. The limit is generally two child for larger ethnic groups. Three is allowed for the ethnic groups that are small or the location is extremely rural (for example, nomadic Tibetans are allowed three children, but Tibetan in major cities are limited to two).

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## Broccoli

from mp.net, ETIM propaganda from 2011.





There attackers weren't armed with assault rifles and grenades, but I can guarantee that at some point they are going to do so. When US pulls out most of their soldiers from Afghanistan it will help all militants to relax a bit, and no doubt many of them will go ti fight against China in Uighur areas.

It would be wise from Chinese to start taking out terrorist camps via drone strikes and special forces raids before they grow more larger.

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## RayOfLight

Well done China.. 
Terrorist scum - Rest in Pieces..


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## Jayanta

BoQ77 said:


> I don't think Chinese policemen too scared of a small group with knives, ...
> 
> actually, the policemen was told to shoot to death at those guys.




Do not worry it is just the beginning...when they start getting trained in Pakistan they will come with all the goodies.


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## Nan Yang

Jayanta said:


> BBC News - China police kill eight in Xinjiang clash



Wrong article ? Need some PISA lesson in reading ?


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## bolo

Broccoli said:


> from mp.net, ETIM propaganda from 2011.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There attackers weren't armed with assault rifles and grenades, but I can guarantee that at some point they are going to do so. When US pulls out most of their soldiers from Afghanistan it will help all militants to relax a bit, and no doubt many of them will go ti fight against China in Uighur areas.
> 
> It would be wise from Chinese to start taking out terrorist camps via drone strikes and special forces raids before they grow more larger.


That will allow Chinese military to test out its new equipment on these terrorists.


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## Sanchez

S10 said:


> Started when China allowed Saudi funded religious schools in Xinjiang in the mid 1990's. Now religious extremism has displaced pan-Turkic nationalism as the driving force being Xinjiang separatists. I would like nothing less than slap the idiot who allowed external religious influence to flow into Xinjiang. Now more and more women are wearing face veils and men growing full beard.



I think that it's more linked to ethnic issues than religious. Saudi Arabia has also funded religious schools in Gansu for Hui Muslims. It's very peaceful interaction there.

Only fools believe that Uighurs are fighting for their religious freedom.


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## Okemos

Even though I am all against one child policy, but if it's national law, then it should be applied to every citizen. Down with discrimination. China's minority population has risen from 3% to 10% since 1949 in a country with over 1billion population. That takes lots of lots breeding from the minorities.


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## xuxu1457

As Xinjiang birth plan Regulation
温宿县司法局
Article XV， Han city residents a couple can give birth one child, minority city residents couple can have two children. Han farmers and herdsmen can birth two children, minority couple farmers and herdsmen can have three children. One of the spouses is a minority, according to the family planning regulations minority fertility; spouse as urban residents, according to the provisions of the urban family planning fertility.
第十五条　城镇汉族居民一对夫妻可生育一个子女，少数民族居民一对夫妻可生育两个子女。汉族农牧民一对夫妻可生育两个子女，少数民族农牧民一对夫妻可生育三个子女。本条例施行前，按当时生育政策达到生育子女数的夫妻，不适用前款规定。夫妻一方是少数民族的，按少数民族计划生育规定生育；夫妻一方为城镇居民的，按城镇计划生育规定生育。

So minority Chinese can have 1 more than han Chinese, these always bring general han chinese feelling unfair.


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## 帅的一匹

Jayanta said:


> BBC News - China police kill eight in Xinjiang clash


Just killing some brtual terrorists attacked policestation, what's your problem?



Shardul.....the lion said:


> killing terrorist and wiping out them is all good....
> 
> but this is sick from a government



You shall let Maoist kill Indian policemen wantonly..............
Hipocrisy at most!



Okemos said:


> Even though I am all against one child policy, but if it's national law, then it should be applied to every citizen. Down with discrimination. China's minority population has risen from 3% to 10% since 1949 in a country with over 1billion population. That takes lots of lots breeding from the minorities.


Human right is no important than national security, just take Snowden case for reference.

look at India, they have same population as China with 3 times smaller landmass. Millions of people suffer starvation and illiteracy, the right way is to control population to prevent they suffer after given birth. Human right or irresponsible?

I never read any article from BBC, totally crap and fabricated news denigrating CHina.

The law says you shall have three kids, then you have three kids. It's law. PS: those minority don't wear condom when making love, shit happens sometime.

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## 帅的一匹

according to the one-child policy, i can only have 1 kid. pathetic! Those minority could have three and they still complain...................

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## EagleEyes

Stick to the rules, avoid non-english.


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## Han Chen

As a Chinese I need to point out the "one child policy" was never ever applied to any of the minorities. This policy did cause many tragedies but these brutal things get much much less after 2000. The punishment for getting a second baby are prevention of granting social ID, or unemployment of parents. In very poor and rural regions i may imagine such horrible things like killing a baby, but I don't quite believe it as it is 2014 now.. Not 1980s.

You can find all sorts of negative news about China in "free Asia", or "free Tibet" or whatsoever. I have to say I admire these editors propoganda ability..









Mech said:


> *Four Uyghur Women Forced to Abort Their Babies in Xinjiang*
> 
> Four Uyghur women in China's troubled northwestern region of Xinjiang have been forced by authorities to undergo abortions—one of them nine months into her pregnancy—under Beijing's brutally-enforced one-child policy, local officials and parents said.
> 
> They were among six forced abortions that had been planned over the last week in Hotan prefecture in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, home to some 10 million mostly Muslim Uyghurs who say they have long suffered ethnic discrimination and oppressive religious controls under Beijing’s policies.
> 
> "We had planned to perform forced abortions on six women. Four of them have already undergone the abortions," Eniver Momin, deputy chief of Hotan's Arish township where the mothers were injected with abortion-inducing drugs, told RFA's Uyghur Service.
> 
> "One more woman is waiting in hospital to undergo the abortion while another women has escaped before undergoing the process," Momin said.
> 
> He said that local authorities are considering whether to suspend performing forced abortions amid public concerns over the four cases.
> 
> Awat Han, head of the family planning department in Arish township, also confirmed with RFA that four forced abortions had been conducted over the last week, saying she was only following orders from the higher authorities bent on enforcing the controversial one-child policy introduced in the 1970's to curb population growth.
> 
> Under a new law passed last week, married couples in China will be permitted to have a second child if one spouse is an only child. Current regulations allow a second child in certain cases, including if both spouses are only children themselves.
> 
> As ethnic minorities, the Uyghurs are supposed to be exempt from the one-child policy.
> 
> *Baby born alive and then dies*
> 
> The depressed husband of one of the four women forced to undergo the abortions told RFA that his wife delivered their baby boy alive but he died an hour later.
> 
> Memettursun Kawul said they had been anxiously awaiting the birth of their son after having three daughters but township officials led by Awat Han had been forcing his wife to go to the hospital for an abortion since she was six months pregnant in November.
> 
> "We said that we were willing to pay a fine of 50,000 to 100,000 yuan [U.S. $8,250 to U.S. $16,500] but they refused," he said.
> 
> "In November, my wife and I left the township and hid in Hotan city in one of my relatives' house, but Awat Han came to the place with two village policemen last week and took her to the Nurluq Hospital in Arish Township," he said.
> 
> "My wife was injected by doctors at 11 p.m. on Wednesday and she gave birth at 5 p.m. the next day. My son was crying when he was born."
> 
> Kawul said he stormed into the delivery room when he heard the cries of his son and wife, grabbed the baby and took him to a nearby hospital in a bid to save him.
> 
> "The doctors in the hospital tried to save him but failed, citing the abortion drug that had already been injected. My son died an hour after he was born."
> 
> Kawul said that at the Nurluq Hospital, where his wife is now recovering, another Uyghur woman was awaiting a forced abortion, identifying her as Rozihan Memet and her husband as Metkurban Nuri.
> 
> *Husband detained at police station*
> 
> Metkurban Nuri, the husband of another Uyghur woman who was forced to abort her baby four months into her pregnancy, said he and his wife had been hiding in Hotan city for a week but local family planning officials located them on Saturday.
> 
> He said he was detained at Arish police station for 24 hours and forced to agree to allow his wife to undergo an abortion at the Nurluq Hospital.
> 
> The mostly Muslim Uyghurs in Xinjiang, which has seen a string of violent incidents in recent years, are supposed to be exempt from Beijing's one-child policy aimed largely at the majority Han Chinese, rights groups say.
> 
> "In reality, they [the Uyghurs] are subject to strict population control," said the U.S.-based Women's Rights Without Frontiers, an international coalition monitoring forced abortion, gendercide, and sexual slavery in China.
> 
> "If they live in the countryside, Uyghurs are allowed three children; in the city, they are allowed two," the group said. "Uyghurs who exceed this limit are subject to forced abortion, forced sterilization, and other coercive measures."
> 
> _*Reported by Shohret Hoshur for RFA's Uyghur Service. *_
> Source: Four Uyghur Women Forced to Abort Their Babies in Xinjiang

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## dray

This is not abortion, this is murder.


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## oFFbEAT

Fattyacids said:


> As expected, many comments from those with low intellect who considered article from RFA as a credible source.


LOL.....whoever says something against you is not credible.......that's an old trick.....only low IQ Chinese think it still works....


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## Chronos

Raphael said:


> lol RFA.



Your avatar and your post makes your post made of awesome


----------



## WAR-rior

tranquilium said:


> I will have supplement your point 2. While ethnic minorities are not limited to one child, the family planning policy applies to them as well. The limit is generally two child for larger ethnic groups. Three is allowed for the ethnic groups that are small or the location is extremely rural (for example, nomadic Tibetans are allowed three children, but Tibetan in major cities are limited to two).


But I have heard China is done with 1 child policy and has reverted it back. Isnt it?


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## halupridol

yes....now everybody start jumping....
whether this news has any truth or not(btw which doesn't concern me)..
what concerns me more is Indians opposing this Chinese population control policy...instead of learning n appreciating it...we just start bashing them...for wht??
trying to control there population effectively!?.....our population rises everyday....illiterate people making 6-7 children...n no political will to curb it effectively...


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## kankan326

Population growth rate is faster than grain output growth rate. Guess what will happen? Human right sometimes kills human itself.


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## halupridol

kankan326 said:


> Population growth rate is faster than grain output growth rate. Guess what will happen? Human right sometimes kills human itself.


 that's too much oversimplification.....but correct.


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## JSCh

bolo said:


> Where are they operating in?


Wikipedia - Smith–Mundt_Act


> *Excerpt*
> Section 501(a) of the Act (care of the Voice of America website) provides that
> 
> "information produced by VOA for audiences outside the United States shall not be disseminated within the United States … but, on request, shall be available in the English language at VOA, at all reasonable times following its release as information abroad, for examination only by representatives of United States press associations, newspapers, magazines, radio systems, and stations, and by research students and scholars, and, on request, shall be made available for examination only to Members of Congress."
> 
> *"This means that VOA is forbidden to broadcast within the United States."* In reality, of course, any American with a shortwave receiver or an Internet connection can listen to VOA. That's incidental, however. VOA cannot *direct* or intend its programs to be "for" Americans. This distinction is often lost on experts who see the letter of the law but with no real understanding of the media. George W. Bush-era State Department official James K. Glassman has called for directing VOA at American audiences.
> 
> *Entities Covered by the Act*
> The following are administered by the Broadcasting Board of Governors, an agency of the US government.
> 
> 
> *Voice of America*, a radio, TV and Internet network broadcasting worldwide, intended for reception outside of the US
> Alhurra, satellite TV broadcasting to the Middle East
> Radio Farda, a radio station targeted at Iran
> Radio Free Asia, a radio network broadcasting in Asia
> Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, a radio network based in Europe and the Middle East
> Radio Martí and TV Martí, a radio and TV network broadcasting in Cuba
> Radio Sawa, a radio station broadcasting in the Middle East
> No other department or agency of the US government is covered by the Smith–Mundt Act. The United States Agency for International Development and Millennium Challenge Corporation have said they are not sure whether they are covered.[7].

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## AnnoyingOrange

Are bhai...Woh china hai.... china main kabhi kisi musalman ke saath galat nahi hota.... musalman sirf hindustan main dabaye aur kuchle jate hai...musalman kaum ka sabse baa dushman agar hai toh woh hindustan hai...

Pun Intended.



Mech said:


> *Four Uyghur Women Forced to Abort Their Babies in Xinjiang*
> 
> Four Uyghur women in China's troubled northwestern region of Xinjiang have been forced by authorities to undergo abortions—one of them nine months into her pregnancy—under Beijing's brutally-enforced one-child policy, local officials and parents said.
> 
> They were among six forced abortions that had been planned over the last week in Hotan prefecture in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, home to some 10 million mostly Muslim Uyghurs who say they have long suffered ethnic discrimination and oppressive religious controls under Beijing’s policies.
> 
> "We had planned to perform forced abortions on six women. Four of them have already undergone the abortions," Eniver Momin, deputy chief of Hotan's Arish township where the mothers were injected with abortion-inducing drugs, told RFA's Uyghur Service.
> 
> "One more woman is waiting in hospital to undergo the abortion while another women has escaped before undergoing the process," Momin said.
> 
> He said that local authorities are considering whether to suspend performing forced abortions amid public concerns over the four cases.
> 
> Awat Han, head of the family planning department in Arish township, also confirmed with RFA that four forced abortions had been conducted over the last week, saying she was only following orders from the higher authorities bent on enforcing the controversial one-child policy introduced in the 1970's to curb population growth.
> 
> Under a new law passed last week, married couples in China will be permitted to have a second child if one spouse is an only child. Current regulations allow a second child in certain cases, including if both spouses are only children themselves.
> 
> As ethnic minorities, the Uyghurs are supposed to be exempt from the one-child policy.
> 
> *Baby born alive and then dies*
> 
> The depressed husband of one of the four women forced to undergo the abortions told RFA that his wife delivered their baby boy alive but he died an hour later.
> 
> Memettursun Kawul said they had been anxiously awaiting the birth of their son after having three daughters but township officials led by Awat Han had been forcing his wife to go to the hospital for an abortion since she was six months pregnant in November.
> 
> "We said that we were willing to pay a fine of 50,000 to 100,000 yuan [U.S. $8,250 to U.S. $16,500] but they refused," he said.
> 
> "In November, my wife and I left the township and hid in Hotan city in one of my relatives' house, but Awat Han came to the place with two village policemen last week and took her to the Nurluq Hospital in Arish Township," he said.
> 
> "My wife was injected by doctors at 11 p.m. on Wednesday and she gave birth at 5 p.m. the next day. My son was crying when he was born."
> 
> Kawul said he stormed into the delivery room when he heard the cries of his son and wife, grabbed the baby and took him to a nearby hospital in a bid to save him.
> 
> "The doctors in the hospital tried to save him but failed, citing the abortion drug that had already been injected. My son died an hour after he was born."
> 
> Kawul said that at the Nurluq Hospital, where his wife is now recovering, another Uyghur woman was awaiting a forced abortion, identifying her as Rozihan Memet and her husband as Metkurban Nuri.
> 
> *Husband detained at police station*
> 
> Metkurban Nuri, the husband of another Uyghur woman who was forced to abort her baby four months into her pregnancy, said he and his wife had been hiding in Hotan city for a week but local family planning officials located them on Saturday.
> 
> He said he was detained at Arish police station for 24 hours and forced to agree to allow his wife to undergo an abortion at the Nurluq Hospital.
> 
> The mostly Muslim Uyghurs in Xinjiang, which has seen a string of violent incidents in recent years, are supposed to be exempt from Beijing's one-child policy aimed largely at the majority Han Chinese, rights groups say.
> 
> "In reality, they [the Uyghurs] are subject to strict population control," said the U.S.-based Women's Rights Without Frontiers, an international coalition monitoring forced abortion, gendercide, and sexual slavery in China.
> 
> "If they live in the countryside, Uyghurs are allowed three children; in the city, they are allowed two," the group said. "Uyghurs who exceed this limit are subject to forced abortion, forced sterilization, and other coercive measures."
> 
> _*Reported by Shohret Hoshur for RFA's Uyghur Service. *_
> Source: Four Uyghur Women Forced to Abort Their Babies in Xinjiang


----------



## tranquilium

WAR-rior said:


> But I have heard China is done with 1 child policy and has reverted it back. Isnt it?



According to CCTV-1 announcement on Monday, the new policy allows couples who are both single child to have two children. So it is not a complete reverse, but an adjustment.


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## WAR-rior

tranquilium said:


> According to CCTV-1 announcement on Monday, the new policy allows couples who are both single child to have two children. So it is not a complete reverse, but an adjustment.


Dint get the logic. If ur parents did more than 1, you are not allowed to do more than 1. Interesting.


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## tranquilium

WAR-rior said:


> Dint get the logic. If ur parents did more than 1, you are not allowed to do more than 1. Interesting.



The overall goal is to have a population that society and environment can support. Since China's economy has developed to the point where people are beginning to consciously limit the number of children, it is safe to let go some of the restrictions. Those who are only child are also, on average, wealthier and better educated, thus a good place to start.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Hum, this is an evil policy but it should apply to Han and all minorities. To Uighur, it's OK as Han is also a victim

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## rott

Bored with these stupid threads. Not even worth going through.

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## Shardul.....the lion

wanglaokan said:


> Just killing some brtual terrorists attacked policestation, what's your problem?
> 
> 
> 
> You shall let Maoist kill Indian policemen wantonly..............
> Hipocrisy at most!


I being Indian will always support eliminating terrorists...
But forced abortion on ethnic grounds is quite repulsive in 21st century...


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## ephone

People who wrote stuff like this are extremely ignorant about China's so-called one-child policy.

Even during its strictest period, it does not apply to minority. Let alone now it is much loose than before. So it means that those minorities are not limited by the policy. In addition, even if one of the parent is minority, the family do not follow the policy as well.

This policy is only against the majority Han Chinese.

For your knowledge, uighur is considered as one of the 55 minorities in China. What a bunch of dumb axx.

NO MORE DUMB FAKE NEWS!!!



Shardul.....the lion said:


> killing terrorist and wiping out them is all good....
> 
> but this is sick from a government

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## Kyle Sun

WAR-rior said:


> But I have heard China is done with 1 child policy and has reverted it back. Isnt it?



Some province already apply new rule 

If wife or husband is the only offspring of his/her family , then they can have 2 children .

In the past , Both wife and husband need to be the only offspring ,then they can have 2 children .

But Chinese parents are crazy, they will spend a lot of money to send their children to the best school,hire home tutor to tech piano /ballet /Kongfu something like that , this really cost a lot of money.

Now many young couple still like to have one child no matter the one child policy change or not, because the cost for 2 child is too high.

And the one child policy never applies to minority , instead Gov gives a lot of good treatment policy to minority

For example
no one-child-policy
college entrance score is much lower than Han chinese student
minority can carry a knife or gun if carry a knife or gun is their tradition
Every college has Uighur canteen because they do not eat pork , and we respect that 
economic policy is much more better that Han region 

Many people think this is not fair for Han chinese, but gov never change it , even make it better.

If this article tells me Han women are forced to abort , I might believe it .But it tells us Uighur ,it is totally bullshit.

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## xTra

BEIJING: Eleven "terrorists" were killed during an attack in China's far western region of Xinjiang on Friday, state news agency Xinhua said, in the latest violence to hit a part of the country with a large Muslim population. 

"The terrorists, riding motorbikes and cars, attacked a team of police who were gathering before the gate of a park for routine patrol at around 4pm in Wushi County in the Aksu Prefecture," Xinhua said in an English-language report. 

"Police said the terrorists had (an) unknown number of LNG cylinders in their car which they had attempted to use as suicide bombs. Several terrorists were shot dead at the scene," it added. 

Eight were killed by police and three died "by their own suicide bomb", Xinhua said. 

Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur people and strategically located on the borders of central Asia, has been beset by violence for years, blamed by the government on Islamist militants and separatists who want to establish an independent state called East Turkestan. 

Exiles and many rights groups though say the real cause of the unrest is China's heavy-handed policies including restrictions on Islam and the Uighur people's culture and language, charges the government strongly denies. 

China has stepped up security in Xinjiang after a vehicle ploughed into tourists on the edge of Beijing's Tiananmen Square in October, killing the three people in the car and two bystanders, unnerving the ruling Communist Party. 

More than 100 people, including several policemen, have been killed in violence in Xinjiang since last April, according to state media reports.


Source : 11 'terrorists' killed in new Xinjiang unrest, China says - The Times of India

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## Gautam

Good news. This is how India should deal with terrorists.

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## OrionHunter

> Eight were killed by police and *three died "by their own suicide bomb"*, Xinhua said.


Oops! That sucked!!

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## Assault Rifle

Top tier Jihadi websites Ansar1.info & Fidaa have uploaded a video few weeks back showing a deadly ambush of a Chinese military/paramilitary convoy near sache town.Several weapons were captured from Chinese soldiers after the ambush.


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## Wood

Assault Rifle said:


> Top tier Jihadi websites Ansar1.info & Fidaa have uploaded a video few weeks back showing a deadly ambush of a Chinese military/paramilitary convoy near sache town.Several weapons were captured from Chinese soldiers after the ambush.



Why do you visit top tier Jihadi websites?

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## kurup

Good work by China .........


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## Assault Rifle

Wood said:


> Why do you visit top tier Jihadi websites?



I am a registered member at Foundation for Defense of Democracies(FDD) situated in Washington D.C.


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## kaykay

Good work. Terrorists should be killed whenever they are found without any mercy.


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## Assault Rifle

kaykay said:


> Good work. Terrorists should be killed whenever they are found without any mercy.


True,but always take news regarding Xinjiang & Tibet from Chinese State controlled media with a truck-load of Salt.


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## Ahiska

The same was said by stalin to prosecute crimean Tatars i dont believe it

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## cnleio

Suicide bomber


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## Irajgholi

Assault Rifle said:


> I am a registered member at Foundation for Defense of Democracies(FDD) situated in Washington D.C.


interesting, please let them know that there are active terrorist sympathizers on this forum, do they care about that or have they nothing better than to do with their time than advocating for more iranian sanctions on food, medicine, etc... ?

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## Ayush

well done china

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## Gazprom

Ahiska said:


> The same was said by stalin to prosecute crimean Tatars i dont believe it



Well the crimean tatars did join the nazis . That sealed their fate. Soviet union had zero tolerance policy for traitors .



Assault Rifle said:


> I am a registered member at Foundation for Defense of Democracies(FDD) situated in Washington D.C.



So you are a member of a foundation which is involved in applying lipstick to terrorism lol.

and well done china.You should be a lot more harsh with dar-ul-islam.


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## bolo

Assault Rifle said:


> True,but always take news regarding Xinjiang & Tibet from Chinese State controlled media with a truck-load of Salt.


 
I always take news and opinions from indians with one hundred truck loads of salt

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## Ahiska

Gazprom said:


> Well the crimean tatars did join the nazis . That sealed their fate. Soviet union had zero tolerance policy for traitors .
> 
> 
> 
> So you are a member of a foundation which is involved in applying lipstick to terrorism lol.
> 
> and well done china.You should be a lot more harsh with dar-ul-islam.


Well they also deported my people even when we fought and 10% of our people died against Nazis so dont come with this bullshit


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## Gazprom

Ahiska said:


> Well they also deported my people even when we fought and 10% of our people died against Nazis so dont come with this bullshit



@vostok



bolo said:


> I always take news and opinions from indians with one hundred truck loads of salt



Most indians support china in dealing with islamists.There are a few bad apples like him everywhere.


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## S10

Assault Rifle said:


> Top tier Jihadi websites Ansar1.info & Fidaa have uploaded a video few weeks back showing a deadly ambush of a Chinese military/paramilitary convoy near sache town.Several weapons were captured from Chinese soldiers after the ambush.


Do show it, but somehow I suspect you're full of bullshit as usual.

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## vostok

Gazprom said:


> @vostok


What have Uighur terrorists to the Crimean Tatars?
Maybe Ashika has information that Ukrainian security services need to take into account?
In general, I would silence about the Crimean Tatars. They drank very, very much Russian blood for many centuries.

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## bolo

Gazprom said:


> @vostok
> 
> 
> 
> Most indians support china in dealing with islamists.There are a few bad apples like him everywhere.


 Terrorism is a serious issue for any country. I find it funny when foreign news article always putsa " " on the terrorists word when using that term strictly reserved for China..

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## jamal18

Calling somebody a terrorist doesn't make him a terrorist.

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## bolo

jamal18 said:


> Calling somebody a terrorist doesn't make him a terrorist.


 regardless, they're dead.


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## S10

jamal18 said:


> Calling somebody a terrorist doesn't make him a terrorist.


Regular people carry bombs and attack police convoys? I'm sorry that you're from that kind of a shithole.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Well done China. Kill all terrorist.....

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## BoQ77

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Well done China. Kill all terrorist.....



This is similar to IRA , actually. or ETA in Basque


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## jamal18

S10 said:


> Regular people carry bombs and attack police convoys? I'm sorry that you're from that kind of a shithole.




I think your from a shithole! This is called guerilla warfare. I doubt if the people from that area regard them as terrorist.



BoQ77 said:


> This is similar to IRA , actually. or ETA in Basque




Yes, I think it's the same. People with nationalistic aspirations who cannot achieve what they want through peaceful means.

Most of the IRA terrorists are now members of parliament!


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## itaskol

good， kill them
die die die....

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## S10

jamal18 said:


> I think your from a shithole! This is called guerilla warfare. I doubt if the people from that area regard them as terrorist.


Guerilla warfare? These incidents are isolated without a centralized network, motivated by jihadist ideology. Most of who they killed are actually Uyghur civilians. If they had such wide popular support, Xinjiang would be a complete mess by now instead of one of the fastest growing territories. I'm sorry that you're born retarded, but your mother really should have swallowed you.



> Yes, I think it's the same. People with nationalistic aspirations who cannot achieve what they want through peaceful means.
> 
> Most of the IRA terrorists are now members of parliament!


I'm sorry your shithole would entertain the thought of Islamic jihadist to become MPs.

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## Genesis

jamal18 said:


> I think your from a shithole! This is called guerilla warfare. I doubt if the people from that area regard them as terrorist.



These bomb carrying and peace loving "citizens" are not really killing our police force or people. A lot of the police force and people on the street are their own ethnic group. There's not that many Han Chinese there for them to target. 

I don't know why any reasonable citizen of China regardless of ethnic group would welcome bombs going off in their neighborhood.


----------



## jamal18

S10 said:


> Guerilla warfare? These incidents are isolated without a centralized network, motivated by jihadist ideology. Most of who they killed are actually Uyghur civilians. If they had such wide popular support, Xinjiang would be a complete mess by now instead of one of the fastest growing territories. I'm sorry that you're born retarded, but your mother really should have swallowed you.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry your shithole would entertain the thought of Islamic jihadist to become MPs.




Hey, asshole listen.

This is a nationalistic aspirations, these people consider themselve non-chinese and occupied by a foreign power.

They were part of the then chinese empire.

And your mother should have shot you.

And I have no idea where your MP part comes from.


----------



## jamal18

Genesis said:


> These bomb carrying and peace loving "citizens" are not really killing our police force or people. A lot of the police force and people on the street are their own ethnic group. There's not that many Han Chinese there for them to target.
> 
> I don't know why any reasonable citizen of China regardless of ethnic group would welcome bombs going off in their neighborhood.



Thank you for your comment. I noticed you're chinese and do express my condolences.

What I am trying to say is that there is often a deep faultline in countries with a ethnic mix. The people of the area do not regard themselves as part of china, and have always wanted independence.

However, no chinese government can allow a large part of what they consider 'china' pull away, for them this is not an option. However, people from that area often crave independence. This results in the conflict you have not only in china, but many other places.


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## S10

jamal18 said:


> Hey, asshole listen.
> 
> This is a nationalistic aspirations, these people consider themselve non-chinese and occupied by a foreign power.
> 
> They were part of the then chinese empire.
> 
> And your mother should have shot you.
> 
> And I have no idea where your MP part comes from.


I don't have a habit of listening to retards, especially your kind that should not have been born in the first place.

The area is also inhabited by Uzbeks, Kazaks, Kyrgyz, Hui and Mongols, all of whom are Muslims. Yet none of these groups caused any trouble whatsoever. There was no serious trouble until the rise of Wahhabism in the 1980's, which spread like a cancer in Central Asia. These nationalist mostly target civilians, and majority of those they killed are Uyghurs. Since your mother gave birth to your retarded ***, here is the definition of terrorism:

1. The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

What kind of guerilla army target mostly civilians and follows an hardline Islamic ideology? Perhaps you live in such a shithole that your definition of terrorism is beyond twisted.

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## Chinese-Dragon

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

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## ephone

To those uighur terrorists, we grant those dogs' wishes to be with their virgins at hell. 



xTra said:


> BEIJING: Eleven "terrorists" were killed during an attack in China's far western region of Xinjiang on Friday, state news agency Xinhua said, in the latest violence to hit a part of the country with a large Muslim population.
> 
> "The terrorists, riding motorbikes and cars, attacked a team of police who were gathering before the gate of a park for routine patrol at around 4pm in Wushi County in the Aksu Prefecture," Xinhua said in an English-language report.
> 
> "Police said the terrorists had (an) unknown number of LNG cylinders in their car which they had attempted to use as suicide bombs. Several terrorists were shot dead at the scene," it added.
> 
> Eight were killed by police and three died "by their own suicide bomb", Xinhua said.
> 
> Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur people and strategically located on the borders of central Asia, has been beset by violence for years, blamed by the government on Islamist militants and separatists who want to establish an independent state called East Turkestan.
> 
> Exiles and many rights groups though say the real cause of the unrest is China's heavy-handed policies including restrictions on Islam and the Uighur people's culture and language, charges the government strongly denies.
> 
> China has stepped up security in Xinjiang after a vehicle ploughed into tourists on the edge of Beijing's Tiananmen Square in October, killing the three people in the car and two bystanders, unnerving the ruling Communist Party.
> 
> More than 100 people, including several policemen, have been killed in violence in Xinjiang since last April, according to state media reports.
> 
> 
> Source : 11 'terrorists' killed in new Xinjiang unrest, China says - The Times of India


----------



## jamal18

S10 said:


> I don't have a habit of listening to retards, especially your kind that should not have been born in the first place.
> 
> The area is also inhabited by Uzbeks, Kazaks, Kyrgyz, Hui and Mongols, all of whom are Muslims. Yet none of these groups caused any trouble whatsoever. There was no serious trouble until the rise of Wahhabism in the 1980's, which spread like a cancer in Central Asia. These nationalist mostly target civilians, and majority of those they killed are Uyghurs. Since your mother gave birth to your retarded ***, here is the definition of terrorism:
> 
> 1. The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
> 
> What kind of guerilla army target mostly civilians and follows an hardline Islamic ideology? Perhaps you live in such a shithole that your definition of terrorism is beyond twisted.




Here we go again.

Listen, asshole. These people are different from the chinese, the basis of there struggle is a nationalistic independence. As you say, this has been going on for years, not much unlike the end of the Russian empire; and the problems in Ireland (IRA).

My memory fails me, but I believe this goes back a lot further than the 1980's. 

Retards like you should get used to different opinions.


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## retaxis

jamal18 said:


> Here we go again.
> 
> Listen, asshole. These people are different from the chinese, the basis of there struggle is a nationalistic independence. As you say, this has been going on for years, not much unlike the end of the Russian empire; and the problems in Ireland (IRA).
> 
> My memory fails me, but I believe this goes back a lot further than the 1980's.
> 
> Retards like you should get used to different opinions.


Why do you have to go full retard?

These terrorists target civilians do you know what a civilian is? They kill innocent people.
By your retarded logic an American Indian can target and kill white/black/asian people and it would be fine because its in goal of nationalistic independence? If Manipuri's come and kill your Indian parents it would be fine because its in goal of their nationalistic independence?

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## jamal18

retaxis said:


> Why do you have to go full retard?
> 
> These terrorists target civilians do you know what a civilian is? They kill innocent people.
> By your retarded logic an American Indian can target and kill white/black/asian people and it would be fine because its in goal of nationalistic independence? If Manipuri's come and kill your Indian parents it would be fine because its in goal of their nationalistic independence?




Read my initial post.

1. During the IRA emergency, I worked with a lot of catholics from Northern Ireland. At the time, the British government would call the IRA terrorists, and that they only got support from the catholic community because the they threatened the local population. I would, jokingly, say that to my workmates who would roll over laughing at how idiotic that allegation was. Every one of them was an IRA sympathiser.

2. A (white) guy recently told me how Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. Both the South African government and the British government regarded him as a terrorist.

Tell me, do I believe them?

I do my own thinking, just because somebody calls somebody a terrorist doesn't me I believe them. This is a general observation.

As to the specific, I do not know enough about the situation.

Islam doesn't say you have to have your own country, it allows muslims to live as a minority in a non-muslim majority. So the arguement that you have to be independent as a muslim isn't really valid. Many ethnic minorities have aspirations to be independent, my 2 cents is that, as long you're not being oppressed, its not really worth it.

Criticize me for what I say, not for what others think I say.

I more than welcome your questioning and criticism; but keep the abuse down.

As you may have noticed, it produces more heat than light.


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## 帅的一匹

Just kill those terrorists all, no need to discuss with retard.

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## itaskol

pakistan president visit china today . and announce to help china in every nessesary way to help china count terrorist in xingjiang.

*巴基斯坦总统:已准备提供任何形式帮助新疆稳定*
*他说：“两国政府已经签订了相关协议，我们致力于联合打击恐怖主义、极端主义。为了中国新疆的稳定，巴基斯坦已准备好提供任何形式的帮助。”*
*巴基斯坦总统:已准备提供任何形式帮助新疆稳定|侯赛因|新疆|反恐_新浪新闻*


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## Ahiska

S10 said:


> I don't have a habit of listening to retards, especially your kind that should not have been born in the first place.
> 
> The area is also inhabited by Uzbeks, Kazaks, Kyrgyz, Hui and Mongols, all of whom are Muslims. Yet none of these groups caused any trouble whatsoever. There was no serious trouble until the rise of Wahhabism in the 1980's, which spread like a cancer in Central Asia. These nationalist mostly target civilians, and majority of those they killed are Uyghurs. Since your mother gave birth to your retarded ***, here is the definition of terrorism:
> 
> 1. The use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
> 
> What kind of guerilla army target mostly civilians and follows an hardline Islamic ideology? Perhaps you live in such a shithole that your definition of terrorism is beyond twisted.


Because this Area is historical Uyghur land and not Kazakh or Uzbek or whatever other Turkic land Chinese aggression makes the people ther more radical and thats what china want to show every resistance as Islamists or Terrorists

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## Sanchez

Ahiska said:


> Because this Area is historical Uyghur land and not Kazakh or Uzbek or whatever other Turkic land Chinese aggression makes the people ther more radical and thats what china want to show every resistance as Islamists or Terrorists


 
You'd better read some history of Turkic people and China.

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## ephone

Historically uyghur land???

Learn some history. When Chinese Han dynasty army fought the Huns there 2000 years ago, uyghur as a name is not even born yet... 




Ahiska said:


> Because this Area is historical Uyghur land and not Kazakh or Uzbek or whatever other Turkic land Chinese aggression makes the people ther more radical and thats what china want to show every resistance as Islamists or Terrorists

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## S10

Ahiska said:


> Because this Area is historical Uyghur land and not Kazakh or Uzbek or whatever other Turkic land Chinese aggression makes the people ther more radical and thats what china want to show every resistance as Islamists or Terrorists


Bullshit, Uyghurs are Turkic invaders that arrived in the area in the 7th Century. By the way, the Uyghurs were originally Buddhists. Han Chinese had established its first garrison and settlement there after the defeat of Huns, before the birth of Christ. We're the original inhabitants to the area, so next time you scumbag terrorist lovers should do a little research before talking.


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## Ahiska

S10 said:


> Bullshit, Uyghurs are Turkic invaders that arrived in the area in the 7th Century. By the way, the Uyghurs were originally Buddhists. Han Chinese had established its first garrison and settlement there after the defeat of Huns, before the birth of Christ. We're the original inhabitants to the area, so next time you scumbag terrorist lovers should do a little research before talking.


And i think you forgot the main point you had garrisons there AFTER defeating the Huns (presumebly the ancestors of the Uyghurs and other Turkics)


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## S10

Ahiska said:


> And i think you forgot the main point you had garrisons there AFTER defeating the Huns (presumebly the ancestors of the Uyghurs and other Turkics)


Han's military garrison were cities with large civilian populations. And no, there were way more nomadic groups in the area before Uyghurs and other Turkic groups showed up. Chinese were there long before Turks and Uyghurs became a civilization. I would not mind removing your kind completely from China, but the government disagrees with me unfortunately.


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## Ahiska

S10 said:


> Han's military garrison were cities with large civilian populations. And no, there were way more nomadic groups in the area before Uyghurs and other Turkic groups showed up. Chinese were there long before Turks and Uyghurs became a civilization. I would not mind removing your kind completely from China, but the government disagrees with me unfortunately.


This region is traditional Tocharian/Hun land and Huns = Ancestors of the Turkics


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## BoQ77

Is there any chance, some day there's a posting *"11 millions "terrorists" killed in Xinjiang, China says ?*

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## oFFbEAT

retaxis said:


> If Manipuri's come and kill your Indian parents it would be fine because its in goal of their nationalistic independence?


How did you conclude that he is an Indian??....I see no flag below his avatar...


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## TheTruth

Ahiska said:


> This region is traditional Tocharian/Hun land and Huns = Ancestors of the Turkics



Original Huns were 89% Mongoloid, and they're unlikely to be Turks.


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## IceSage

go china


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## Ahiska

TheTruth said:


> Original Huns were 89% Mongoloid, and they're unlikely to be Turks.


The Huns just dissapeared and the Turkic tribes came out of nowhere from the same region


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## S10

Ahiska said:


> This region is traditional Tocharian/Hun land and Huns = Ancestors of the Turkics


Whether you can claim lineage to Hun is even more debatable, while we are a continuous civilization. We are still the same culture that settled the area more than 2000 years ago, while your kind is invaders to the region.


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## Snomannen

Ahiska said:


> This region is traditional Tocharian/Hun land and Huns = Ancestors of the Turkics



Who told you that only Han is considered as Chinese, nationality and ethnic are two different concepts.


-------------------------------------

"terrorists"?

How about [thousands were killed by "terrorists" in 9.11]?


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## Sanchez

Ahiska said:


> The Huns just dissapeared and the Turkic tribes came out of nowhere from the same region



That doesn't naturally make Huns the ancestors of the Turkic. Huns, Turks and Mongols all belong to Altaic language group, originated from Mongolia plateau in different historic periods. You can't say Turks the ancestors of Mongols because they appeared later in the same region. There is one thing in common about them, brutal and blood thirsty. Maybe there's a killer gene encoded in higher frequency in these people.


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## shuttler

11* '' terrorists'' *killed in new Xinjiang unrest, China says -* The Times of India*

terrible choice of *"* terrorists*" *by a cheerleading media
despicable and pathetic!

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## HariPrasad

Gautam said:


> Good news. This is how India should deal with terrorists.




India already deals with terrorists like this. 

The difference is that we have cross border terrorism and chines terrorism is home grown. We can easili shoot terrorist on border as they are not our citizen.China will have to think twice before killing them . They should bring them to Justice.

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## LordTyrannus

HariPrasad said:


> India already deals with terrorists like this.
> 
> The difference is that we have cross border terrorism and chines terrorism is home grown. We can easili shoot terrorist on border as they are not our citizen.China will have to think twice before killing them . They should bring them to Justice.



I dont think there is a problem to liquidate evil jihadists. No need for expensive solutions.


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## shuttler

HariPrasad said:


> India already deals with terrorists like this.
> 
> The difference is that we have cross border terrorism and chines terrorism is home grown. We can easili shoot terrorist on border as they are not our citizen.China will have to think twice before killing them . They should bring them to Justice.



indian admin, policing and judicial system are so damn backward

We will try to apprehend the terrorists first, regardless of where they come from 
Charge them and take them to court
Squeeze them for more information of their network
We kill them only if there is no other alternatives and innocent people's lives are seriously at risks

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## Kloitra

shuttler said:


> 11* '' terrorists'' *killed in new Xinjiang unrest, China says -* The Times of India*
> 
> terrible choice of *"* terrorists*" *by a cheerleading media
> despicable and pathetic!



Chill out. When did ToI became Chinese cheerleader?
They reported as the Chinese media stated, like other media houses world around:

China says 11 'terrorists' killed in new Xinjiang unrest| Reuters

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-02/14/c_133116298.htm


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## shuttler

Kloitra said:


> Chill out. When did ToI became Chinese cheerleader?
> They reported as the Chinese media stated, like other media houses world around:
> 
> China says 11 'terrorists' killed in new Xinjiang unrest| Reuters
> 
> http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-02/14/c_133116298.htm



chill out cheerleader
the link is to the imperialists' media
you cheerleading media just pathetically and despicably copying the whole damn thing as the news title


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## Kloitra

shuttler said:


> chill out cheerleader
> the link is to the imperialists' media
> you cheerleading media just pathetically and despicably copying the whole damn thing as the article's title



Ever heard of news agency? Reuters?


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## shuttler

Kloitra said:


> Ever heard of news agency? Reuters?



so when they shit you gobble it up and stink through your media's mouths?

this is how the pc of shit media's report

11 'terrorists' killed in new Xinjiang unrest, China says - The Times of India


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## Kloitra

shuttler said:


> so when they shit you gobble it up and stink through your media mouths?



That is how news agencies work, including your own.

Xinhua Insight: Kunming attack shows China's anti-terrorism challenges - Xinhua | English.news.cn

Is this a western news source too?


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## shuttler

In all of our media reporting the world


Kloitra said:


> That is how news agencies work, including your own.
> 
> Xinhua Insight: Kunming attack shows China's anti-terrorism challenges - Xinhua | English.news.cn
> 
> Is this a western news source too?



yOU ARE just trying to cover your shame

toi was taking sides with the imperialists
The term*Terrorists* is used and depicted clearly in our media or agencies for the horrible acts of terrorism on March 1
only your shameful despicable and gutless media like* toi* is trying to borrow the term *" terrorists" *and* China says *from the imperlists and to use these dirty tricks to slam us!


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## Kloitra

shuttler said:


> In all of our media reporting the world
> 
> 
> yOU ARE just trying to cover your shame
> 
> toi was taking sides with the imperialists
> The term*Terrorists* is used and depicted clearly in our media or agencies for the horrible acts of terrorism on March 1
> only your shameful despicable and gutless media like* toi* is trying to borrow the term *" terrorists" *and* China says *from the imperlists and to use these dirty tricks to slam us!



You are right, word to word reporting from your government's mouthpiece is imperialism and amount to slamming you. 

May be you should tell your govt to put a disclaimer, don't believe our words, and don't publish them elsewhere..

Several terrorists killed in Xinjiang attack - Xinhua | English.news.cn



> URUMQI, Feb. 14 (Xinhua) -- Several terrorists were shot dead by police during a terrorist attack Friday afternoon in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, police said.
> 
> The terrorists, riding motorbikes and cars, attacked a team of police who were gathering before the gate of a park for routine patrol at around 4 p.m. in Wushi County in the Aksu Prefecture.
> 
> Police said the terrorists had unknown number of LNG cylinders in their car which they had attempted to use as suicide bombs.
> 
> Several terrorists were shot dead at the scene.
> 
> The case is under further investigation.
> 
> Six terrorists were shot down by police during an attack against a police station on Jan. 24 in the county seat of Xinhe in the Aksu Prefecture,
> 
> Some 190 terrorist attacks were recorded in Xinjiang in 2012, increasing by a significant margin from 2011, according to the regional public security department.


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## shuttler

Kloitra said:


> You are right, word to word reporting from your government's mouthpiece is imperialism and amount to slamming you.
> 
> May be you should tell your govt to put a disclaimer, don't believe our words, and don't publish them elsewhere..
> 
> Several terrorists killed in Xinjiang attack - Xinhua | English.news.cn



*are you trying to act funny or silly?*

There is no* ' ......'* for *terrorists* in our media's reporting
Terrorists are criminals acting in Terrorism or Terror attacks
and this is a universal truth, *not to be said by China*

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## Kloitra

shuttler said:


> *are you trying to act funny or silly?*
> 
> There is no* ' ......'* for *terrorists* in our media's reporting
> Terrorists are criminals acting in Terrorism or Terror attacks
> and this is a universal truth, *not to be said by China*



Sorry, I didn't read that much into it, and misunderstood your post. I get your point, this is a silly reporting.


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## shuttler

Kloitra said:


> Sorry, I didn't read that much into it, and misunderstood your post. I get your point, this is a silly reporting.



okay 
not to worry!

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## ephone

The Huns were the ancestors of Uyghurs and Turkics???

Where did you get such information???

Are you going to tell me the Mongolians, the Manchus were all descendants of the Huns as well???




Ahiska said:


> And i think you forgot the main point you had garrisons there AFTER defeating the Huns (presumebly the ancestors of the Uyghurs and other Turkics)


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## siegecrossbow

There is no need to put terrorists in quotes when the phrase is used to describe a group of people who indiscriminately slaughtered the elderly and children. If extremists who target soldiers in Britain are considered terrorists, so should these "people".


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## Beidou2020

These terrorists are all sponsored by the Turkish regime. They get all their funding from the Turkish regime and training from the Turkish military.


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## BoQ77

China outsiders : Please have in mind that an ordinary Chinese resident cannot watch any Youtube video sharing, or Facebook news, photos, videos sharing ... or similar services, except state controlled medias ( all domestic services )

Because their government doesn't allow them have the right to access those ...

So they could tell any "truth" they want to their people ...

@ Chinese pals : if you want to know the real Truth, you visit another country and watch Youtube videos for free, anytime, anywhere ..


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## HariPrasad

LordTyrannus said:


> I dont think there is a problem to liquidate evil jihadists. No need for expensive solutions.




Your solution has a lots of hidden dangers. After all they are your citizens. Bring them to justice and punish them according to Chinese laws.



shuttler said:


> indian admin, policing and judicial system are so damn backward
> 
> We will try to apprehend the terrorists first, regardless of where they come from
> Charge them and take them to court
> Squeeze them for more information of their network
> We kill them only if there is no other alternatives and innocent people's lives are seriously at risks




Still they killed lots of your people. No such incident in India has taken place till date (Domestic terrorist killing so many people in such a manner)


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## shuttler

shuttler said:


> Still they killed lots of your people. No such incident in India has taken place till date (Domestic terrorist killing so many people in such a manner)



its just silly to talk like than
first you were advocating kill on sight
and now you are denying your country's massacre
Just one out of many alarming cases in "Kashmir mass graves" - does that ring a bell?

All the Uyghurs arrested and executed in China were terrorists/ rioters


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## HariPrasad

shuttler said:


> its just silly to talk like than
> first you were advocating kill on sight
> and now you are denying your country's massacre
> Just one out of many alarming cases in "Kashmir mass graves" - does that ring a bell?
> 
> All the Uyghurs arrested and executed in China were terrorists/ rioters




See you have a comprehension problem and not me. 

Suppose terrorist are firing and you counter fire to kill them than it is OK. But when there is a possibility of catching them alive, they should be caught and bought to Justice. 

I won't reply to your other question as you live in a country with very limited access to reliable information. I can exact you to think the way I think because of obvious reason.


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## jkroo

HariPrasad said:


> See you have a comprehension problem and not me.
> 
> *Suppose terrorist are firing and you counter fire to kill them than it is OK*. But when there is a possibility of catching them alive, they should be caught and bought to Justice.
> 
> *I won't reply to your other question as you live in a country with very limited access to reliable information*. I can exact you to think the way I think because of obvious reason.



You are just ill-minded to decide to tell the specialists which can do and which not. Try to learn more details and judge your announcement first.

You must live in a ranker's world that you are so high and have many delusions.

Suggestion to you, keep healthy mind and that will be good to you to know the real world.

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## HariPrasad

shuttler said:


> Cant you read the silly post you made on 56?
> You viewpoint of how to handle terrorism is a joke and I've told you how to deal with terrorism in a civilized way
> This is why india is among the top of the most dangerous places on earth having so many bomb attacks




Post No 56

India already deals with terrorists like this. 

The difference is that we have cross border terrorism and chines terrorism is home grown. We can easili shoot terrorist on border as they are not our citizen.China will have to think twice before killing them . They should bring them to Justice.




See I reprodued my post No 56. What is wrong in that. The terrorist comes to India are not our citizen and trained on foreign soil to carry out suicide attack in India. They enter india with lots of deadly weapons simply to kill.

On other hand The people involved in your country are your citizens. You can talk to them, you can exercise economic measure to batter their life. You can caught suspect and try in your court and lot more.

We are exactly doing same.

Now show me the contradiction.


This is the reason it is worthless to argue with you guys.


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## shuttler

HariPrasad said:


> Post No 56
> 
> India already deals with terrorists like this.
> 
> The difference is that we have cross border terrorism and chines terrorism is home grown. We can easili shoot terrorist on border as they are not our citizen.China will have to think twice before killing them . They should bring them to Justice.
> 
> See I reprodued my post No 56. What is wrong in that. The terrorist comes to India are not our citizen and trained on foreign soil to carry out suicide attack in India. They enter india with lots of deadly weapons simply to kill.
> 
> On other hand The people involved in your country are your citizens. You can talk to them, you can exercise economic measure to batter their life. You can caught suspect and try in your court and lot more.
> 
> We are exactly doing same.
> 
> *Now show me the contradiction.*
> 
> This is the reason it is worthless to argue with you guys.



You are incurable!

*1.* "*India already deals with terrorists like this*. "
I have told you we are not dealing with terrorists like what indians do
Here is what I have stated in post 58:



> *indian admin, policing and judicial system are so damn backward
> 
> We will try to apprehend the terrorists first, regardless of where they come from
> Charge them and take them to court
> Squeeze them for more information of their network*
> *We kill them only if there is no other alternatives and innocent people's lives are seriously at risks *




*2.* we handle terrorists the same regardless of the origin. The criminals who committed acts of terrorism in China can be linked to overseas organisations and it cannot be ruled out the criminals are imported



> *China's Ministry of Public Security issued a list of what it considers terrorist threats on 15 December 2003. These include the Eastern Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), the East Turkestan Liberation Organization (ETLO), the World Uyghur Congress, and the East Turkistan Information Center. The Ministry further named eleven individuals as terrorists.[34][35][36]*
> 
> *The Eastern Turkistan Islamic Movement, whose aim is to the establishment of a fundamentalist Muslim state to be called "East Turkistan" and the conversion of all Chinese people to Islam,[37] operates throughout Central Asia and claimed responsibility for over 200 acts of terrorism from 1990 to 2001, resulting in at least 162 deaths and 440 injuries.[38] Chinese authorities allege the group has a close relationship with al-Qaeda, and that it receives funding and training in Afghanistan. Rémi Castets has said that while "it is possible that these movements, and particularly the ETIM, might have had contacts with the bin Laden network and more probably with the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan," direct ties are likely minimal because of "bin Laden’s silence on East Turkistan."[15]*
> 
> *Terrorism in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia*



So what you said above and quoted herebelow is wrong:


> *The people involved in your country are your citizens. You can talk to them, you can exercise economic measure to batter their life. You can caught suspect and try in your court and lot more.*



and you have homegrown " terrorists" too:

‘Home-grown western terrorists are new threat to India’ - The Hindu

*3.* You misled and talked B/S in post 56 and now covering the errors by more B/S

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## IND151

Good work China.


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## SouthDesi

*Nothing like having all the Muslims in one place before you plan to deal with the problem.*

*RFA (h/t Mike F) The government put them on buses and drove them to Kunming [Yunnan's capital], and each person was given a subsidy of 1,000 yuan [U.S. $163],” a resident of Yunnan’s Shadian township told RFA’s Cantonese Service.”They made them take the train back to their hometowns.” ”I heard that Uyghur Muslims from Honghe prefecture and other places were all sent back to Xinjiang as well,” said the resident.*

*The move followed warnings last week from an official in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region that China’s Muslim Uyghur minority could face a further backlash of discrimination in the wake of the Kunming railway station killings as the authorities tighten security restrictions based on ethnic profiling.*






*Memorial for all the Chinese victims slaughtered by Uighur Muslims in front of Kunming station*

*Mutalif Obul, commissioner of Xinjiang’s Kashgar prefecture, told state media that Chinese cities had stepped up measures targeting Uyghurs on the basis of their ethnicity following the March 1 stabbings that left 33 dead in what authorities have labeled a “terror attack” carried out by Uyghur separatists.*

*An employee who answered the phone at a guesthouse in Honghe’s Shiping county said that other people from outside Yunnan were being subjected to police interviews since the deadly attacks. ”It’s not just people from Xinjiang,” the employee said. “If you are from another province, the police will basically come and visit you to check you out.”*






*Hong Kong’s Ming Pao newspaper reported on Wednesday that nearly 900 Uyghur Muslims have been subjected to internal deportation since the Kunming attacks.Uyghurs in Shadian had more economic opportunities and were able to practice Islam with fewer restrictions than in tightly controlled Xinjiang, the paper said, quoting local sources.*

*



*

*Ilshat Hassan, vice-president of the Uyghur American Association, said similar moves were afoot to “repatriate” Uyghurs from other major Chinese cities. Authorities have taken similar steps in Beijing, Henan, and Shaanxi, according to sources who spoke to the U.S.-based group. ”They are all sending Uyghurs back.”*

*“Previously, they just wouldn’t allow them to stay in guesthouses; now they are openly demanding that they go back [to Xinjiang],” he said.*





*Chinese women attacked in the streets by Uighur Muslims a few years ago, when Uighurs were committing needle attacks on innocent civilians*

*Meanwhile, U.S.-based rights activist Liu Qing, former head of Human Rights in China (HRIC), said the move to send Uyghurs away from Yunnan is a “serious violation” of their rights. (Too bad) ”The Uyghur Muslims who are sent back to Xinjiang may share their outrage with their compatriots, and that will fan the flames of hatred, which is an ingredient of terrorism,” he said. (Exactly)*


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## Superboy

Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

By now I think Han is majority in Xinjiang.


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## SouthDesi

Superboy said:


> Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> By now I think Han is majority in Xinjiang.



Does it matter? 10 mil is a big number, more than J&K population


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## xunzi

There must be a Uyghur solution one way or another. This cannot be acceptable in any short and long term situation.

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## blackface

Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China

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## Genesis

blackface said:


> Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China



when did it stop?


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## sincity

Uyghur shouldn't organized a group of rebel to kill innocent in the city, they should think about consequence before they carry their murderous act. Cry about reprisal then don't commit murder on the innocent.

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## Pakistanisage

Uighurs must stay within the Ambit of " Law and Order ". You cannot ask for your rights by violating rights of others and breaking the Law.

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## xunzi

blackface said:


> Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China


Excuse me, what?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

blackface said:


> Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China


 
Let Uighurs stab your kinds similar in Kunming and Chang Sha...then see if your brain is still waking up to take preventive measure...LMAO

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## Chinese-Dragon

Pakistanisage said:


> Uighurs must stay within the Ambit of " Law and Order ". You cannot ask for your rights by violating rights of others and breaking the Law.



Excellent post buddy. 

Though I hope all sides exercise restraint, and do not make a bad situation even worse. China desperately needs stability for at least the next 10-20 years, so we can complete our current phase of economic development.

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## SouthDesi

Pakistanisage said:


> Uighurs must stay within the Ambit of " Law and Order ". You cannot ask for your rights by violating rights of others and breaking the Law.



What do you say about Pakistan Connection with this issue? Hope you read the article fully.


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## BigDaddyWatch

We shouldn't attack the nation of Brazil because of the opinion of this one guy. Let him live in his ignorence. If the Chinese government is treating the Chinese people so bad then why are their so many Chinese members here to defend the Chinese government ? You only know what you see in the media we know what the government has done for us and China despite its flaws.

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## ChineseTiger1986

This kind of article has an obvious agenda to stir up the tension between China and Islam.

Since the usage of the term "Muslims" and "Islamic" has been greatly sensualized.

When the West invading the Muslim nations, it is labelled as the fight for "freedom" or "democracy".

When China is fighting against the terrorism that threatened its territorial integrity, it is always labelled as the "oppression" against Islam, "violation" of human right, etc.

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## Chinese-Dragon

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This kind of article has an obvious agenda to stir up the tension between China and Islam.
> 
> Since the usage of the term "Muslims" and "Islamic" has been greatly sensualized.
> 
> When the West invading the Muslim nations, it is labelled as the fight for "freedom" or "democracy".
> 
> When China is fighting against the terrorism that threatened its territorial integrity, it is always labelled as the "oppression" against Islam, "violation" of human right, etc.



You are exactly right brother.

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## Hakan

If religious groups in china enjoyed full religious rights the same as they do cultural rights then the problem would be solved. Unfortunately communism is opposed to religion no matter what anyone claims because communism is based around obedience to the state whereas religion is based upon obedience to a higher being. People will always put more importance on their religion than they do on the rules of the government. This causes competition between the state and religion so the state must destroy religion eventually to become the sole power and authority in the land.


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## chhota bheem

Pakistanisage said:


> Uighurs must stay within the Ambit of " Law and Order ". You cannot ask for your rights by violating rights of others and breaking the Law.


Do you realise what you said and its even funny you got 2 positive ratings,if someone from some perticulat community does something wrong you dont punish the whole community and make them resposible just because they are from that community.

In one sentence you generalise and make the whole community responsible.

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## Hakan

chhota bheem said:


> Do you realise what you said and its even funny you got 2 positive ratings,if someone from some perticulat community does something wrong you dont punish the whole community and make them resposible just because they are from that community.
> 
> In one sentence you generalise and make the whole community responsible.


Some people dont have any concept of democracy, rights, and equality. And then they try to say that they arn't inhumane.

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## Brainsucker

Maybe the problem of Uighur for the first place is because China doesn't assimilated them to the population, or at least to try harder to assimilated them to China Population. Look at them, they still stick on their own language, their own culture, etc. Make them look like an alien in China. I guess you should try harder. Learn on how Manchurian become Chinese (not Han, but Chinese, Han is a part of China, just like Manchurian and the others). They assimilated, so they become Chinese. While Uighur still think that they are Native American that preserved in the jungle by your government. Don't make a little different country in your country. Assimilated them, or ready to embrace struggle from them forever.


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## Hakan

Brainsucker said:


> Maybe the problem of Uighur for the first place is because China doesn't assimilated them to the population, or at least to try harder to assimilated them to China Population. Look at them, they still stick on their own language, their own culture, etc. Make them look like an alien in China. I guess you should try harder. Learn on how Manchurian become Chinese (not Han, but Chinese, Han is a part of China, just like Manchurian and the others). They assimilated, so they become Chinese. While Uighur still think that they are Native American that preserved in the jungle by your government. Don't make a little different country in your country. Assimilated them, or ready to embrace struggle from them forever.


Haha. Maybe the dutch should have assimilated you?

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## sincity

blackface said:


> Chinese people trying to be racist is funny. You are some small, ugly dude with small dic.k and trying to act like a tough guy on the internet. Brazilians will smash your face in if you dare to talk like that in real life.


 

You said people just let you beat them up without fighting back?


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## Brainsucker

Kaan said:


> Haha. Maybe the dutch should have assimilated you?



Well, they were too small to assimilated us. If they tried to, they would become Indonesian instead, because we have bigger population.


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## sincity

Democracy base on majority rule, majority in China speak Chinese, Uyghur demand China to uphold their right, they should uphold the right of the majority, in public learn and speak the language of the majority, learn to coexist with the majority, majority of Christian Chinese were suppress their belief because of the government crack down, you don't see them go out and butcher innocent people.


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## Hakan

@Brainsucker 
You know that you are calling for the elimination of an entire ethnic and religious group of over 10 million people. I doubt you would have the guts to say that to someones face in real life.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Kaan said:


> If religious groups in china enjoyed full religious rights the same as they do cultural rights then the problem would be solved. Unfortunately communism is opposed to religion no matter what anyone claims because communism is based around obedience to the state whereas religion is based upon obedience to a higher being. People will always put more importance on their religion than they do on the rules of the government. This causes competition between the state and religion so the state must destroy religion eventually to become the sole power and authority in the land.


 
If I'm the ruler, I will pacified by merging all religions into one and to serve China's interest...Christian, Bhudism, Islam all religious people will stay in the same Temple or Musquet, sleep togheter and eat the same sh1t...this call standardization of the religion . We Chinese certainly not interested to see Crusaders or any religious fanatics into stir up trouble on our door steps.

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## Hakan

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> If I'm the ruler, I will pacified by merging all religions into one and to serve China's interest...Christian, Bhudism, Islam all religious people will stay in the same Temple or Musquet, sleep togheter and eat the same sh1t...this call standardization of the religion . We Chinese certainly not interested to see Crusaders or any religious fanatics into stir up trouble on our door steps.


Thats exactly what your government wants to do so in response people are angry thus causing you more problems and instability. The best way to solve this issue is to do the right thing and allow people to live their lives freely. Its a win win situation for everyone.


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## my2cents

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This kind of article has an obvious agenda to stir up the tension between China and Islam.
> 
> Since the usage of the term "Muslims" and "Islamic" has been greatly sensualized.
> 
> When the West invading the Muslim nations, it is labelled as the fight for "freedom" or "democracy".
> 
> When China is fighting against the terrorism that threatened its territorial integrity, it is always labelled as the "oppression" against Islam, "violation" of human right, etc.



I hope you stand by this when it comes to Kashmir because the issue is same in wider context that is "terrorism".

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## Hakan

Chinese-Dragon said:


> This guy is not a Brazilian.
> 
> Just think about it, why would a Brazilian attack China over this issue? It makes no sense.
> 
> He is very likely a sock puppet account for another member.


You do know that he doesn't have to repeat his governments position right? He can have his own opinion. For you his opinion doesn't make sense because of the political atmosphere you grew up in.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Kaan said:


> You do know that he doesn't have to repeat his governments position right? He can have his own opinion. For you it doesn't make sense because of the political atmosphere you grew up in.



Why are you making personal attacks against me?

You don't know where I grew up. For your information, I grew up in Hong Kong.

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## chhota bheem

Chinese-Dragon said:


> He didn't just "question" China on the issue, he has been handing out racist abuse.
> 
> And tell me, why exactly would a Brazilian attack China over this issue? I don't see the logic.


If he is false flagger he will come out in the open sooner or later.
If you dispute what he is saying in the posted related to the thread(not off topic),counter them


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## blackface

Chinese-Dragon said:


> He didn't just "question" China on the issue, he has been handing out racist abuse.
> 
> And tell me, why exactly would a Brazilian attack China over this issue? I don't see the logic.



Because I'm a human being and interested in global affairs? So you think I should only be interested in Brazilian affairs? That makes sense in your world, I guess. Your countryman called Brazilians monkeys and I retaliated. If you are impartial you should have at least given him a penalty too.

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## Brainsucker

Kaan said:


> @Brainsucker
> You know that you are calling for the elimination of an entire ethnic and religious group of over 10 million people. I doubt you would have the guts to say that to someones face in real life.



Do I propose to kill them? or to bring them to gas chamber? No. I just say that they are a part of Chinese people. So they should live with the other Chinese and assimilate into the society of their country. Not become an Alien in their surrounding. Last time I check, Uighur people are Chinese, so they should join Chinese society and assimilated with them rather than preserved in the jungle.


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## Hakan

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Why are you making personal attacks against me?
> 
> You don't know where I grew up. For your information, I grew up in Hong Kong.


Your right grew up is the wrong word. New phrase: The political atmosphere you live in.

Now answer this question: Why cant he have a different opinion than his government? Why do you think having a different opinion than your government doesn't make sense?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Kaan said:


> Thats exactly what your government wants to do so in response people are angry thus causing you more problems and instability. The best way to solve this issue is to do the right thing and allow people to live their lives freely. Its a win win situation for everyone.


 
You Anatolians sure like to see the unforeseen religious war such as Crusaders in the middle age over again in your soil, we Chinese like to take preventive measure not to let such thing happended as far as we're concern. No religions should rule suprem in China or will get ban.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Kaan said:


> Your right grew up is the wrong word. New phrase: The political atmosphere you live in.
> 
> Now answer this question: Why cant he have a different opinion than his government? *Why do you think having a different opinion than your government doesn't make sense?*



You are going into stereotypes.

It is perfectly acceptable to disagree with your Government, I in fact despise many Chinese politicians, especially the local ones. And I disagree with the Chinese government on many areas from foreign policy to military spending.

And last but not least, I am extremely pissed off at the Chinese Government policy in Xinjiang, and I think more people need to be sacked because of it.

But that does not give "blackface" the right to give out racial abuse against Chinese people? And you thanked him for it as well?

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## Hakan

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You are going into stereotypes.
> 
> It is perfectly acceptable to disagree with your Government, I in fact despise many Chinese politicians, especially the local ones. And I disagree with the Chinese government on many areas from foreign policy to military spending.
> 
> And last but not least, I am extremely pissed off at the Chinese Government policy in Xinjiang, and I think more people need to be sacked because of it.
> 
> But that does not give him the right to give out racial abuse against Chinese people? And you thanked him for it as well?


Your right I looked backed and removed my thanks. Any way his point was that they wouldn't have the guts to say what they said in real life. he should have said it in a more civilized manner.

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## KingMamba

Uyghers are wrong because they think knifing people will help their cause when it is clearly counter productive.

Chinese government is wrong to employ collective punishment though as it only serves to further propoganda seperatists put out.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Kaan said:


> Your right I looked backed and removed my thanks. Any way his point was that they wouldn't have the guts to say what they said in real life. he should have said it in a more civilized manner.



Thank you for being reasonable sir. 



KingMamba said:


> Uyghers are wrong because they think knifing people will help their cause when it is clearly counter productive.
> 
> Chinese government is wrong to employ collective punishment though as it only serves to further propoganda seperatists put out.



I agree with the sentiment of your post, all sides need to be more responsible in this regard.

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## Hakan

KingMamba said:


> Uyghers are wrong because they think knifing people will help their cause when it is clearly counter productive.
> 
> Chinese government is wrong to employ collective punishment though as it only serves to further propoganda seperatists put out.


Not all Uyghurs support killing innocent people.

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## KingMamba

Kaan said:


> Not all Uyghurs support killing innocent people.



Yeah I know. I found the part where Uyghers like living outside of Xinjiang better because there is more religious freedom shocking it clearly shows Chinese government needs to revise some policies.

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## Chinese-Dragon

KingMamba said:


> Yeah I know. I found the part where Uyghers like living outside of Xinjiang better because there is more religious freedom shocking it clearly shows Chinese government needs to revise some policies.



The Government policies in Xinjiang have failed in this regard.

Someone needs to be punished for this.

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## Hakan

KingMamba said:


> Yeah I know. I found the part where Uyghers like living outside of Xinjiang better because there is more religious freedom shocking it clearly shows Chinese government needs to revise some policies.


In the end this issue is about religious freedom. Once that is solved the problems will disappear. The only problem that arises later on is who will run the mosques in the country. The government? Privately run?


@Chinese-Dragon finally a legit conversation with a Chinese member.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Kaan said:


> In the end this issue is about religious freedom. Once that is solved the problems will disappear. The only problem that arises later on is who will run the mosques in the country. The government? Privately run?
> 
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon finally a legit conversation with a Chinese member.



We can never fix the problem unless we are accountable to ourselves.

I believe everyone here can agree that there is a big problem going on, and it needs to be solved in a long-term and sustainable manner.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

blackface said:


> Because I'm a human being and interested in global affairs? So you think I should only be interested in Brazilian affairs? That makes sense in your world, I guess. Your countryman called Brazilians monkeys and I retaliated. If you are impartial you should have at least given him a penalty too.


 
You're human being? you call "Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China" when these animals stabbed innocent peoples in Kumming and Chang Sha, you're worst of the human, I hope these Innocents souls will curse you and hope you to join them in hell.

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## Hakan

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You're human being? you call "Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China" when these animals stabbed innocent peoples in Kumming and Chang Sha, you're worst of the human, I hope these Innocents souls will curse you and hope you to join them in hell.


Just stop writing crap.


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## KingMamba

Kaan said:


> In the end this issue is about religious freedom. Once that is solved the problems will disappear. The only problem that arises later on is who will run the mosques in the country. The government? Privately run?



Mosques are not really an issue look it was true there was seperatist militancy years ago but China has pretty much stamped it out, today Uyghers are just asking for more rights not seperation. The problem is China has not lifted the restrictions they had placed when rebellion was frequent.


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## Chinese-Dragon

No more flaming in this thread please, the mods will clean up soon.

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## blackface

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You're human being? you call "Han supremacist ideology resurfacing in China" when these animals stabbed innocent peoples in Kumming and Chang Sha, you're worst of the human, I hope these Innocents souls will curse you and hope you to join them in hell.



Chinese nationalism is based on Han supremacism and Han chauvinism. I never said the terrorists are right. On the other hand, mass deportation of Uyghurs will follow and the whole ethnic group will be punished for the acts of a few.

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## chhota bheem

Chinese-Dragon said:


> The Government policies in Xinjiang have failed in this regard.
> 
> Someone needs to be punished for this.


But isnt the policy a collective decision of the center,is it possible for some individuals to make policies on sensitive issues like these.


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## KingMamba

About the Pakistan part the militants do not even number in the thousand, China should be more concerned if they get reinforcement from other groups, in this regard China should use its influence to get GOP to act as if these other groups are weakened they will not be able to assist Uygher militants.

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## Hakan

blackface said:


> On the other hand, mass deportation of Uyghurs will follow and the whole ethnic group will be punished for the acts of a few.


Unfortunately that is what will happen. 
______________________________________________________--------

im not sure though if chinese nationalism is necessarily based on han identity. I mean when I look at the chinese they are wearing western clothes, on cctv I see that they have documentaries on about different ethnic groups. Obviuosly they retain some parts of their culture but from what I have seen they aren't going around every where " We are han you suck" except for a few guys on this forum.

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## Sasquatch

To much trolling thread will be cleaned up. Deciding on keeping it open if insults/trolling starts.

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## Lux de Veritas

*Turkic languages*













The Central Asian Turkic languages level of mutual intelligibility may be similar to that of Sinitic languages. . For example Mandarin, Cantonese and Taiwanese/Minnan are all 100% mutually unintelligible. However, there are groups that are very mutually intelligible with one another. The high mutual intelligible Turkic languages are between

Uyghur and Uzbek
Kazakh and Kyrgyz
Turkish, Azeri and Turkmen
It appears that with 2-3 months of immersion, Central Asian Turks can roughly converse with the very unintelligible group. 

The Siberian Turkic are even further apart from Central Asian Turkic.

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## third eye

China’s president says Xinjiang is front line on terror






BEIJING : Police are the “fists and daggers” in the fight against terrorism, China’s President Xi Jinping said on a trip to the western Xinjiang region where authorities say members of a Muslim minority are waging a violent separatist campaign.

Xi’s tour, reported in state media late on Monday, was his first to the region since a ruling Communist Party conclave in November in which he ushered in a national security commission to combat foreign and domestic threats.

Xi has raised the pitch of his warnings on security threats after a spate of deadly attacks, including one in the southwestern city of Kunming in March in which 29 people were killed and 140 injured by knife-wielding attackers who the government said were militants from Xinjiang.

“The Kashgar region is the front line in anti-terrorism and maintaining social stability,” the official Xinhua news agency citied Xi as telling paramilitary police in the Silk Road city of Kashgar in western Xinjiang that has been at the centre of much of the unrest.

“The situation is grim and complicated. The local level police stations are fists and daggers,” Xi said.
The report, carried widely in state media, showed photographs of Xi touring police facilities.

“You must have the most effective means to deal with violent terrorists,” Xi said at a police station where he was pictured inspecting a wall of various kinds of truncheons.

“Sweat more in peacetime to bleed less in wartime,” he said.

Uighurs are Turkic-language speaking Muslims. Many of them chafe at Chinese controls on their culture and religion.

Unrest in Xinjiang has led to the deaths of more than 100 people in the past year, prompting a tougher stance against Uighurs.

The government blames the violence on militants and separatists from the Uighur community who want to establish an independent state called East Turkestan. But rights advocates say China’s harsh rule tramples on Uighurs’ language and culture.

Many Uighurs complain they are denied economic opportunities amid an influx of Han Chinese into the region. Xi urged ethnic unity and encouraged students to seize the opportunity to learn both Chinese and the Uighur language.

“Learning two languages will not only make finding jobs easier, it more importantly will make contributions to promoting ethnic unity,” Xi told school children and their teachers.

Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the main Uighur exile group, the World Uyghur Congress, said in a emailed statement that China’s policies were insincere and provoke unrest, not unity.

“Relying on armed force and monitoring deprives Uighurs of their freedom and proves the utter failure of China’s local governance,” he said.


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## StarCraft_ZT

Let's see what will happen. Xi Jinping is visiting Xinjiang right now.

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## eazzy

Hope no one died.


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## StarCraft_ZT




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## xTra

Are any casualty reported........


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## Götterdämmerung

veekysingh said:


> Nope. Ccp censorship at work.



Why didn't they censor the Kunming terrorist attack?

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## zenglanmu

Terrorists cound shake the foundation of our buildings, but they can not shake the foundation of our nation.

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## Borr

50 wounded so far.

It doesn't seem to be the work of local groups, given the level of possible retaliation as Xi is currently there.

I am thinking of the country that "pivots" to the asia-pacific. That country which actively seeks hostility and profits from discord.

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## kaykay

Hope no one died.


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## Shardul.....the lion

Blast occurs at railway station in Xinjiang - Xinhua | English.news.cn

URUMQI, April 30 (Xinhua) -- A blast occurred at a railway station in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region on Wednesday evening.

The explosion occurred around 7 p.m. Wednesday at the exit of the south railway station of Urumqi. Ambulances and police cars rushed to the scene.

As of 8:30 p.m., people in the square in front of the station and nearby had been evacuated, Xinhua reporters saw. Police are evacuating people in surrounding areas.

Police have cordoned off all entrances to the square of the station. Armed police have been deployed in the square.

Train services had been suspended at the station, a policeman at the scene told Xinhua.

========================

Hope there are no casualties...

is it rush time in Urumqi now????


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## Lux de Veritas

Where are those guys who keep saying I spreading discord between Han Chinese and Muslim?

Is this the job of USA, as always in the mind of mad PDF PRC?


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## eazzy

^ It could.


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## Lux de Veritas

eazzy said:


> ^ It could.



Anything bad under the sun is done by USA?

haha

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## eazzy

Never said it was, just saying everything is possible, you are the naive guy here.


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## Lux de Veritas

rott said:


> OMG, you surely are one dumb guy. Why would China want to cover up or censor it? In fact it's the opposite. China wants the world to know the pious uighurs are the terrorist and killing innocent people with knives and bombs. I can't believe you are that stupid. Are you?



I got impression PDF PRC think Islamofascists are friends?

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## rott

Lux de Veritas said:


> I got impression PDF PRC think Islamofascists are friends?


Too bad you quoted the wrong person, I am an atheist.


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## Lux de Veritas

Some PDF PRC keep ranting how Muslims in the world are big victims.... haha


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## cnleio

Suicide bomb ?

XinJiang gave a BOMB to the Xi, hope he know how to deal with Terrorism. Xi has no choice, it's WAR.

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## Akasa

veekysingh said:


> Nope. Ccp censorship at work.



Like how they erased the number of casualties, which magically happened to be posted in Wikipedia, in the previous attack?



veekysingh said:


> Kunming attack was way to big to cover up easily, before gov. Could act hundreds of pics were already started cerculating on internet. In this u can see clearly see the pic of a injured person being taken by police personal on stretcher. But till now no chinese new agency hv reported any casualties. What do u say abt it?



Alright buddy, it comes to this, unless you personally have been on the scene of the attack and have personally counted the number of casualties, there is no concrete evidence to what really happened.


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## Kesang

USA, zionist, west etc etc are responsible for this incident. They are trying to defame innocent Muslims of China.


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## Lux de Veritas

Kesang said:


> USA, zionist, west etc etc are responsible for this incident. They are trying to defame innocent Muslims of China.



Ya, this definitely has nothing to do with Muslim. Muslim are the most innocent, peaceful and kind people.


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## Azizam

URUMQI, April 30 (Xinhua) -- A blast occurred at a railway station in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region on Wednesday evening.

The explosion happened around 7 p.m. at the exit of the Urumqi south railway station. The blast was centered around some luggage left on the ground between the station exit and a public bus stop, witnesses told Xinhua.

The blast was powerful. A man at a nearby hotel said he thought it was an earthquake.

Police have cordoned off all entrances to the station square of the station and armed police have been deployed. As of 8:30 p.m, the square was still closed. Train services have been suspended. The number of casualties remains unclear.

The station is one of the three railway stations in the city, and the largest in Xinjiang.

Xinjiang intercity railway lines linking Urumqi with Kuytun, Shihezi, Karamay cities are expected to start operation in the station on Thursday. An opening ceremony will be launched on the same day.

Explosion occurs at Xinjiang railway station - Xinhua | English.news.cn


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## Dubious

Hope no casualties!


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## Azizam

URUMQI, April 30 (Xinhua) -- A blast occurred at a railway station in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region on Wednesday evening.

The explosion happened around 7 p.m. at the exit of the Urumqi south railway station. The blast was centered around some luggage left on the ground between the station exit and a public bus stop, witnesses told Xinhua.

The blast was powerful. A man at a nearby hotel said he thought it was an earthquake.

Police have cordoned off all entrances to the station square of the station and armed police have been deployed. As of 8:30 p.m, the square was still closed. Train services have been suspended. The number of casualties remains unclear.

The station is one of the three railway stations in the city, and the largest in Xinjiang.

Xinjiang intercity railway lines linking Urumqi with Kuytun, Shihezi, Karamay cities are expected to start operation in the station on Thursday. An opening ceremony will be launched on the same day.

Explosion occurs at Xinjiang railway station - Xinhua | English.news.cn


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## scherz

Hope nobody died except the terrorists.


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## itaskol

Talon said:


> Hope no casualties!


Many casualties. Till now 3 dead ,79 injured

天山网讯（记者田山报道）经警方初步查明，乌鲁木齐火车南站爆炸是一起严重的暴力恐怖袭击案件，暴徒在乌鲁木齐火车南站出站口接人处持刀砍杀群众，同时引爆爆炸装置，造成3人死亡，79人受伤，其中4人重伤（暂无生命危险）。目前，受伤人员已全部入院接受救治，案件侦破工作正在抓紧进行。
乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻
乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻


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## Shardul.....the lion

Two more thread running simultaneosly...


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## Genesis

veekysingh said:


> First ur post has been reported for being abusive and doing personal attacks.
> Actually ccp wants to cover these thing's so world may not know about what is going on in china and enemies won't able to use it as a leverage, second ccp leaders know no matters how bad the Uighurs are if they keep getting highlights so many Islamic terrorist organizations would start intracting with ughurs more and more and it will a big headache , thirdly they dont wanna panic the chinese population and show them that ccp is always standing tall and strong.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone can edit things on Wikipedia, wiki itself can't be a credible source but the links they use for reference can be good source if one read and examin them properly .
> 
> Of course i was not thr nor i every claimed of anything. Read my posts again u will see i quoted what op has posted. One can clearly see in one pic police(going by the black dress) is carrying a injured person. But in news reports thr is no mention of any type of casualties.


first it's reported second it's reported third it's in a remote place fourth we report facts rather than guesses.


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## Srinivas

A Bomb attack while an official visit is going on that too in China ...... Barbaric guys who are killing people in China need to be punished but hope those innocent Ughyers are safe from CCP's terror .i.e going to be unleashed as a result.


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## Lux de Veritas

itaskol said:


> Many casualties. Till now 3 dead ,79 injured
> 
> 天山网讯（记者田山报道）经警方初步查明，乌鲁木齐火车南站爆炸是一起严重的暴力恐怖袭击案件，暴徒在乌鲁木齐火车南站出站口接人处持刀砍杀群众，同时引爆爆炸装置，造成3人死亡，79人受伤，其中4人重伤（暂无生命危险）。目前，受伤人员已全部入院接受救治，案件侦破工作正在抓紧进行。
> 乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻
> 乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻



My blood boils when I see Chinese got killed. I am a patriotic Chinese.

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## Shardul.....the lion

itaskol said:


> Many casualties. Till now 3 dead ,79 injured
> 
> 天山网讯（记者田山报道）经警方初步查明，乌鲁木齐火车南站爆炸是一起严重的暴力恐怖袭击案件，暴徒在乌鲁木齐火车南站出站口接人处持刀砍杀群众，同时引爆爆炸装置，造成3人死亡，79人受伤，其中4人重伤（暂无生命危险）。目前，受伤人员已全部入院接受救治，案件侦破工作正在抓紧进行。
> 乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻
> 乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻



Rest in peace..............

79 injured means blast seems big

We stand with China against Islamist terror...


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## Roybot

RIP.


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## Akasa

veekysingh said:


> First ur post has been reported for being abusive and doing personal attacks.
> Actually ccp wants to cover these thing's so world may not know about what is going on in china and enemies won't able to use it as a leverage, second ccp leaders know no matters how bad the Uighurs are if they keep getting highlights so many Islamic terrorist organizations would start intracting with ughurs more and more and it will a big headache , thirdly they dont wanna panic the chinese population and show them that ccp is always standing tall and strong.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone can edit things on Wikipedia, wiki itself can't be a credible source but the links they use for reference can be good source if one read and examin them properly .
> 
> Of course i was not thr nor i every claimed of anything. Read my posts again u will see i quoted what op has posted. One can clearly see in one pic police(going by the black dress) is carrying a injured person. But in news reports thr is no mention of any type of casualties.



So buddy, because the media perhaps is slow at reporting things or because there hasn't been much reporting on this matter then that is proof of censorship?

BTW, the Chinese did report casualties:

China says three killed in bomb attack at Xinjiang station| Reuters


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## Daedalus

3 dead according to BBC. RIP
BBC News - Explosion at China Xinjiang railway station kills three


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## Assault Rifle

@rott @SinoSoldier @gotterdammerung



> *However, several microblog posts and photos related to the explosion appeared to have been quickly deleted from Sina Weibo, China's largest microblog platform.*



*Source:* BBC News - Explosion at China Xinjiang railway station kills three


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## Daedalus

cnleio said:


> Suicide bomb ?
> 
> XinJiang gave a BOMB to the Xi, hope he know how to deal with Terrorism. Xi has no choice, it's *WAR*.


WAR with your own people? I hope Xi doesn't think on your lines, that's just suicide. Deal with this as an internal threat. 
It has only started to boil now in china, but India has been dealing with this menace for quite a while now. I'm in for an Sino indian counter terrorist co-op. India has a lot of experience in dealing with these guys.


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## shuttler

RIP and condolences
Speedy recovery for the injured
Now terrorists scumbags against the Nation
You scumbags are asking for death penalties!



itaskol said:


> Many casualties. Till now 3 dead ,79 injured
> 
> 天山网讯（记者田山报道）经警方初步查明，乌鲁木齐火车南站爆炸是一起严重的暴力恐怖袭击案件，暴徒在乌鲁木齐火车南站出站口接人处持刀砍杀群众，同时引爆爆炸装置，造成3人死亡，79人受伤，其中4人重伤（暂无生命危险）。目前，受伤人员已全部入院接受救治，案件侦破工作正在抓紧进行。
> 乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻
> 乌鲁木齐火车南站暴恐案件死亡3人-搜狐新闻



what do you thank Lux de Veritas for?

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## ephone

When we keep having these types of islam terrorists popping up, I have such a hard time believing the explanation about this "religion full of love and peace"??? 

On the other hand, China need forget about its soft approach in dealing this terrorist problem, the only working way is General Wang's Iron-First way. We will strike so hard and make those terrorists and potential terrorists feel the pain for their generations to come.

Our own people??? Why don't you ask those terrorists whether they consider they are our own people at first???

Suicide??? We have done the iron-first way in the past and how is the result: excellent. Xinjiang was very peaceful for quite some time.

The soft approach is really the suicidal way.



Daedalus said:


> WAR with your own people? I hope Xi doesn't think on your lines, that's just suicide. Deal with this as an internal threat.
> It has only started to boil now in china, but India has been dealing with this menace for quite a while now. I'm in for an Sino indian counter terrorist co-op. India has a lot of experience in dealing with these guys.

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## cnleio

Daedalus said:


> WAR with your own people? I hope Xi doesn't think on your lines, that's just suicide. Deal with this as an internal threat.
> It has only started to boil now in china, but India has been dealing with this menace for quite a while now. I'm in for an Sino indian counter terrorist co-op. India has a lot of experience in dealing with these guys.


I do not think those guys who bombing/ killing innocent ppls called as our frined or our own ppl. In general laws, the killer also should get shot.

Only justice bullet can destroy all evil, mercy just boost more violences. Also indian police & Army fighting with Maoist, not a WAR with local Indian ppl ? If next victim who is from ur family, u have to fight with them.

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## Götterdämmerung

veekysingh said:


> Kunming attack was way to big to cover up easily, before gov. Could act hundreds of pics were already started cerculating on internet. In this u can see clearly see the pic of a injured person being taken by police personal on stretcher. But till now no chinese new agency hv reported any casualties. What do u say abt it?



Excuse me, a bomb explosion in the middle of a big city with thousands of people having a mobile making pics is easy to cover up?

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## kalu_miah

There has been a steady frequency of events, first the knife attacks and now we have a bomb blast. RIP to the dead and fast recovery for the injured.

I hope Chinese intelligence uncovers the people behind this and if there is any coordination between earlier knife attacks and this bomb blast.

Chinese govt. need to have more moles from the Uighur expat community to monitor politically active Uighur diaspora to penetrate the group that is responsible for these attacks. Most likely they are sitting in the West safely while using people of their community on the ground to direct these attacks. Efficient Intelligence is the key to defeat these terrorists. Western govt. will definitely extradite people if there is evidence found for expat Uighurs involved in these attacks.

I support a brutal but pin pointed surgical approach, but first thing to do is to find out who did this and then to find out the root of their ideology, ideologues and funding sources, before making plans to eliminate them from the root. If a blunt approach is taken like the US have done, the result will not be good for China's future. You have the opportunity to learn from the mistakes the US have made and are making.

@Lux de Veritas , I do not believe the West is behind this, west is not into terrorism business, but there are other countries in the world who are known sponsors of terrorism, and they belong to many religion.

And the jury is still out whether this is "Islamist terror" or purely ethno-nationalistic Uighur separatism, Hui, Kazakh, Kyrgyz and Tajik's for example are not into this sort of thing it seems. We have to wait for facts that is yet to be uncovered to pass a judgement on that. Whatever it is, I personally strongly condemn such actions and I am sure most of the worlds billion plus Muslims do the same and stand with the Chinese victims, not with the criminal terrorists (most likely Uighur) who did this.

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## Sasquatch

Daedalus said:


> WAR with your own people? I hope Xi doesn't think on your lines, that's just suicide. Deal with this as an internal threat.
> It has only started to boil now in china, but India has been dealing with this menace for quite a while now. I'm in for an Sino indian counter terrorist co-op. India has a lot of experience in dealing with these guys.



Xi has already said he will carry out more extreme actions against terrorism, Our SWAT in Xinjiang has been gaining more experience since most of these incidents have been occurring. Sino-Indian cooperation on terrorism won't change much China should mimic Israeli anti terror operations especially those in the West Bank, it's been successful.

You can expect more terrorism until 2020. The more that happens the harsher the response will be.

RIP to the dead.

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## rott

Assault Rifle said:


> @rott @SinoSoldier @gotterdammerung
> 
> 
> 
> *Source:* BBC News - Explosion at China Xinjiang railway station kills three


@veekysingh, there you go. Told ya, they don't hide sensitive news. No country hides these type of news when it's citizens are being targeted as victims.

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## nalan

Lux de Veritas said:


> Where are those guys who keep saying I spreading discord between Han Chinese and Muslim?
> 
> Is this the job of USA, as always in the mind of mad PDF PRC?


泛化and分化is the same meaning for me.you have a big mouth,you are just like a fly flying around china everyday


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## nalan

depression due to social alienation,this is muslim tragedy.no one could help them.i do not discriminate, but seems they are out of step with modern world.


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## jaunty

Terrorists need to eliminated.


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## senheiser

really disgusting acts of terrorism from turks. China should ban all trade with turkey and import oil from russia instead central asia.

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## Beidou2020

This is clearly the work of the US CIA. Probably Blackwater involved too. Turkey definitely involved.

Close down US and Turkish embassies and consulates.

Close all borders.
Get biometric database in airports.

Kill all the Yankee-backed and Turkish-backed terrorists.

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## StarCraft_ZT

暴徒在出站口接人处持刀砍杀群众，同时引爆爆炸装置，造成3人死亡，79人受伤，其中4人重伤（暂无生命危险）。

Knife attack & Explosion confirmed.

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## kalu_miah

islamrules said:


> Xinjiang is Occupied East Turkestan, and what the criminal Han Chinese occupiers have done to the uyghur Muslims over the last century is indescribable, not even the Tatars/the Jews/the Christians/Arab dictators combined would match the Han Chinese occupiers atrocities .
> 
> I wish all *Muslim* members in PDF wake up to the truth of the atheist communist Chinese especially our brothers the Pakistanis.



So in your mind this terror act was justified?

And what will this kind of terrorism accomplish? Because of these terror acts Uighurs will someday become independent?


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## kalu_miah

Beidou2020 said:


> Islam = not a peaceful religion.
> 
> Peaceful religions don't kill others for religious reasons.



If Islam is not a peaceful religion, then all Muslims are by nature violent. What then should China's policy by in dealing with Muslims of the world?



sincity said:


> Islam are terrorist this fact are confirm, they commit terrorist act everywhere they been. They even commit terrorist act on their own islamic nation.



Same question to you as well.


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## kalu_miah

Beidou2020 said:


> Kill them all



How? Do you have a plan?


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## sincity

kalu_miah said:


> If Islam is not a peaceful religion, then all Muslims are by nature violent. What then should China's policy by in dealing with Muslims of the world?
> 
> 
> 
> Same question to you as well.


 


Can easy be done, majority of Han Chinese need to migrate into the region with the aim to split muslim community into small bloc with many Han Chinese surrounding 2 or 3 Ughur family to keep an eye on the Ughur to prevent further terrorist act carry out on the Chinese. Any muslim comi into China need to pass the DNA data base before they allow into China. This will minimize the chance of Ughur from abroad comeback to China carry out terrorist attack.


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## kalu_miah

Beidou2020 said:


> Just fucking nuke every muslim country back to the stone age.



Including Pakistan?



sincity said:


> Can easy be done, majority of Han Chinese need to migrate into the region with the aim to split muslim community into small bloc with many Han Chinese surrounding 2 or 3 Ughur family to keep an eye on the Ughur to prevent further terrorist act carry out on the Chinese. Any muslim comi into China need to pass the DNA data base before they allow into China. This will minimize the chance of Ughur from abroad comeback to China carry out terrorist attack.



That sounds like a reasonable plan that may work. Better intelligence, security measures and prevention.


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## Beidou2020

kalu_miah said:


> Including Pakistan?
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a reasonable plan that may work. Better intelligence, security measures and prevention.



Any country that supports terrorism and western empires.

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## chhota bheem

Any causalties reported ?


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## kalu_miah

Beidou2020 said:


> Any country that supports terrorism and western empires.



That is not what you said before. These are your exact words:

"Kill them all", "Just fucking nuke every muslim country back to the stone age." 

And there are 57 Muslim majority countries in the world, many live as minorities including in China, such as Hui. In total there are about 1.6 billion Muslims, about 23% of worlds population.


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## Beidou2020

kalu_miah said:


> That is not what you said before. These are your exact words:
> 
> "Kill them all", "Just fucking nuke every muslim country back to the stone age."
> 
> And there are 57 Muslim majority countries in the world, many live as minorities including in China, such as Hui. In total there are about 1.6 billion Muslims, about 23% of worlds population.



I never said that. Stop making such disgusting stories.

I love muslims.

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## Azizam

I believe China should be tough against terrorism once again. Soft policies are a disaster. I hope at least after this incident, CCP comes up with a tough response. Terrorists should be answered in their own language.

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## kalu_miah

Beidou2020 said:


> I never said that. Stop making such disgusting stories.
> 
> I love muslims.



If you say so, I have to believe you. Terrorist planners and field troops are criminals, you should not project the behavior of this small group of criminals to the billion plus people who happens to share the same religion. But I understand generalization is a natural human behavior, specially in difficult situation like this.

Speaking of Western empires, we are victims of it, how can we support them?


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## Missile

Sad News. China should Kill all these funded terrorists.


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## Chronos

kalu_miah said:


> If you say so, I have to believe you. Terrorist planners and field troops are criminals, you should not project the behavior of this small group of criminals to the billion plus people who happens to share the same religion. But I understand generalization is a natural human behavior, specially in difficult situation like this.
> 
> Speaking of Western empires, we are victims of it, how can we support them?



Actually Beidou did say every Muslim is a born terrorist and nuke them back to the stone age.

He deleted his posts and is now lying about it. You quoted him, look back through your posts.

And some of the views expressed here is abhorrent. From both sides.


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## FNFAL

Interesting times for China...If they hunt down these people behind the blasts, there will be protest in their islamic friends ..China will be the new USA.....persecuting islam
BUt china needs to deal with them swiftly and with conviction. These ppl are simply not peaceful followers of relegion


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## kalu_miah

Ravi Nair said:


> Actually Beidou did say every Muslim is a born terrorist and nuke them back to the stone age.
> 
> He deleted his posts and is now lying about it. You quoted him, look back through your posts.
> 
> And some of the views expressed here is abhorrent. From both sides.



I know, may be he is just emotional and I can understand his emotion in this kind of difficult time, no need to rub it in for him. It was a horrendous attack and some innocent people died and got injured, so it is natural for people to be emotional and blow steam.


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## Beidou2020

Ravi Nair said:


> Actually Beidou did say every Muslim is a born terrorist and nuke them back to the stone age.
> 
> He deleted his posts and is now lying about it. You quoted him, look back through your posts.
> 
> And some of the views expressed here is abhorrent. From both sides.



I never said such things. He quoted me and altered my post.
I never delete posts. EVER.
I love muslims.

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## kalu_miah

FNFAL said:


> Interesting times for China...If they hunt down these people behind the blasts, there will be protest in their islamic friends ..China will be the new USA.....persecuting islam
> BUt china needs to deal with them swiftly and with conviction. These ppl are simply not peaceful followers of relegion



USA did the dumbest think possible to deal with terrorism, I am confident that China will not be dumb like the US. Terrorists should be killed, but first it must be found out who is behind them, the backers and funders.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Xi Jinping has paid his visit to the Uighur community in Urumqi after the terrorist attack happened.

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## FNFAL

kalu_miah said:


> USA did the dumbest think possible to deal with terrorism, I am confident that China will not be dumb like the US. Terrorists should be killed, but first it must be found out who is behind them, the backers and funders.


That would be Utopian. History tells us China has a policy of coming down very harshly on discontent folks.
Hopefully it does not indulge in mass persecution of the minority
Coming to backers and funders, there arent too many countries that support islamic terrorism.IT would be a major embarrassment of some of theme traced back to their friends


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## kalu_miah

FNFAL said:


> That would be Utopian. History tells us China has a policy of coming down very harshly on discontent folks.
> Hopefully it does not indulge in mass persecution of the minority
> Coming to backers and funders, there arent too many countries that support islamic terrorism.IT would be a major embarrassment of some of theme traced back to their friends



Let me guess you are Indian and hiding your flags.


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## TaiShang

FNFAL said:


> Interesting times for China...*If they hunt down these people behind the blasts, there will be protest in their islamic friends ..China will be the new USA*.....persecuting islam
> BUt china needs to deal with them swiftly and with conviction. These ppl are simply not peaceful followers of relegion



No, it will remain to be China's internal business. No one will question China's sovereign decision. China will not go ballistic and bomb every Islamic country. Hopefully, it will deal with the issue surgically, draining the swamp (Terrorist backers nested in the West, Turkey and unruly parts of Pakistan etc) while at the same time eliminating the mosquitoes.

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## kalu_miah

jaunty said:


> Terrorists need to eliminated.



Agree absolutely, regardless of whatever religion or country they are from.

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## FNFAL

Yup totally support China. How a country deals with terrorist is not for others to question



TaiShang said:


> No, it will remain to be China's internal business. No one will question China's sovereign decision. China will not go ballistic and bomb every Islamic country. Hopefully, it will deal with the issue surgically, draining the swamp (Terrorist backers nested in the West, Turkey and unruly parts of Pakistan etc) while at the same time eliminating the mosquitoes.





kalu_miah said:


> Let me guess you are Indian and hiding your flags


Wow ur quite the Sherlock

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## flamer84

Beidou2020 said:


> I never said that. Stop making such disgusting stories.
> 
> I love muslims.




Our chinese troll in another thread



flamer84 said:


> Beidou2020 said: ↑
> Not as much as the muslims blowing themselves up and being subservient to the white man



Sure you do son,sure you do..........

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## Chronos

kalu_miah said:


> I know, may be he is just emotional and I can understand his emotion in this kind of difficult time, no need to rub it in for him. It was a horrendous attack and some innocent people died and got injured, so it is natural for people to be emotional and blow steam.



That makes sense.

Good post btw 

My sympathies for the people injured and killed in the blast and their family and loved ones


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## Cherokee

kalu_miah said:


> If Islam is not a peaceful religion, t*hen all Muslims are by nature violent. *What then should China's policy by in dealing with Muslims of the world?
> 
> 
> 
> Same question to you as well.




Religion does not define your nature . A very stupid analogy .


----------



## Juice

Borr said:


> 50 wounded so far.
> 
> It doesn't seem to be the work of local groups, given the level of possible retaliation as Xi is currently there.
> 
> I am thinking of the country that "pivots" to the asia-pacific. That country which actively seeks hostility and profits from discord.


Isn't it weird? Even living in the US has not erased the Chinese idiocy yet.


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## khujliwal

RIP innocent victims.


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## illusion8

The knife attack and this..

Rest in peace.


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## jarves

RIP.

Btw-What is a PDF PRC??


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## cnleio

I don't believe only 3x passengers killed, bull$h!t it's BAD.


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## halupridol

RIP


----------



## S10

China needs to target Wahabism that's rapidly spreading throughout the country, especially in Xinjiang and Yunnan. Some government officials are too chickenshit to do anything about it, and they need to be purged from their position.

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## Beidou2020

CPC is spineless. Put me in charge and I will show you how you crush terrorism.

This has all the signs of a US-backed terrorist attack.

CIA or Blackwater are behind this. Turkey most likely involved too.

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## kalu_miah

Some interesting links:
Who disrupts Pak-China relations? | China Defense Mashup
China’s State Media: Syria, US To Blame For Xinjiang Violence | The Diplomat
Xinjiang Muslim terrorists finding training, support in Syria, Turkey | The Muslim Issue
China Blames Xinjiang Violence on Syrian War


----------



## Ahiska

Some ideas regarding East Turkestan here are really retarded
Also this has nothing to do with islam its an ethnical problem
RIP to the innocent deaths


----------



## Hamartia Antidote

kalu_miah said:


> Some interesting links:
> Who disrupts Pak-China relations? | China Defense Mashup
> China’s State Media: Syria, US To Blame For Xinjiang Violence | The Diplomat
> Xinjiang Muslim terrorists finding training, support in Syria, Turkey | The Muslim Issue
> China Blames Xinjiang Violence on Syrian War



Hey we may as well add another wild conspiracy...it is a false flag situation like the Russian apartment bombings back in 1999.


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## BoQ77

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC is spineless. Put me in charge and I will show you how you crush terrorism.
> 
> This has all the signs of a US-backed terrorist attack.
> 
> CIA or Blackwater are behind this. Turkey most likely involved too.



I make sure there a clear sign that, this relates China hand ...


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## Pangu

BoQ77 said:


> I make sure there a clear sign that, this relates China hand ...



_Yeah right_, like the conspiracy theory that 9/11 was faked? Or the recent Boston bombing was alleged to be false flag?

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## shuttler

*China's Xi orders "crushing blow" to terrorism *
English.news.cn | 2014-05-01 18:44:05 | Editor: Zhu Ningzhu







Chinese President Xi Jinping (2nd R) watches drills of troops of the Chinese People's Liberation Army in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. President Xi Jinping visited troops in Xinjiang on April 27 and 29. (Xinhua/Li Gang)

*B*EIJING, May 1 (Xinhua) -- Chinese President Xi Jinping has ordered troops stationed in Xinjiang to deal a "crushing blow" to terrorists.

Xi, chairman of the Central Military Commission, made the remarks when visiting the People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops stationed in Xinjiang.

Speaking with senior PLA officials on Sunday, Xi ordered PLA forces to assist local government and party departments in combating terrorism and safeguarding social stability.

All forms of terrorism should be rooted out in an early phase, while decisive action must be taken to stop terrorists gaining momentum, he said.

In a separate meeting with officials from the PLA and China's armed police forces in Xinjiang on Tuesday, Xi said the long-term stability of the autonomous region is vital to the whole country's reform, development and stability, as well as to national unity, ethnic harmony and national security.

He called on the PLA and the armed police to play a better role in protecting China's borders and combating violent and terrorist activities.

They must work to enhance ethnic unity and should participate in and assist Xinjiang's future development and construction, in order to contribute to the region's lasting peace and order, Xi said

*Link*

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## rott

shuttler said:


> *China's Xi orders "crushing blow" to terrorism *
> English.news.cn | 2014-05-01 18:44:05 | Editor: Zhu Ningzhu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping (2nd R) watches drills of troops of the Chinese People's Liberation Army in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. President Xi Jinping visited troops in Xinjiang on April 27 and 29. (Xinhua/Li Gang)
> 
> *B*EIJING, May 1 (Xinhua) -- Chinese President Xi Jinping has ordered troops stationed in Xinjiang to deal a "crushing blow" to terrorists.
> 
> Xi, chairman of the Central Military Commission, made the remarks when visiting the People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops stationed in Xinjiang.
> 
> Speaking with senior PLA officials on Sunday, Xi ordered PLA forces to assist local government and party departments in combating terrorism and safeguarding social stability.
> 
> All forms of terrorism should be rooted out in an early phase, while decisive action must be taken to stop terrorists gaining momentum, he said.
> 
> In a separate meeting with officials from the PLA and China's armed police forces in Xinjiang on Tuesday, Xi said the long-term stability of the autonomous region is vital to the whole country's reform, development and stability, as well as to national unity, ethnic harmony and national security.
> 
> He called on the PLA and the armed police to play a better role in protecting China's borders and combating violent and terrorist activities.
> 
> They must work to enhance ethnic unity and should participate in and assist Xinjiang's future development and construction, in order to contribute to the region's lasting peace and order, Xi said
> 
> *Link*


Well done Mr. President. This is how you should deal with terrorist.

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## boomslang

Borr said:


> 50 wounded so far.
> 
> It doesn't seem to be the work of local groups, given the level of possible retaliation as Xi is currently there.
> 
> I am thinking of the country that "pivots" to the asia-pacific. That country which actively seeks hostility and profits from discord.





Chinese false flag op to discredit the Uighur. Plain as the nose on your face.

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## kalu_miah

boomslang said:


> Chinese false flag op to discredit the Uighur. Plain as the nose on your face.



Any evidence? Why do they need to discredit the Uighur? Uighurs are citizens of PRC.


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## Beidou2020

boomslang said:


> Chinese false flag op to discredit the Uighur. Plain as the nose on your face.



Most likely a CIA or Blackwater operation to destabilise China and cause social unrest which will then cause economic growth to crash and political instability of the CPC.

Only the Yankee terrorists have the money and knowledge to carry out such terrorist activities in other countries.

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## boomslang

Beidou2020 said:


> ...Only the Yankee terrorists have the money and knowledge to carry out such terrorist activities in other countries.



Nah !! We are broke and stupid, remember ? It's a Chinese false flag op to justify a crack down on the Uighur. They do that stuff all the time.

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## kalu_miah

Peter C said:


> Hey we may as well add another wild conspiracy...it is a false flag situation like the Russian apartment bombings back in 1999.



I did not cook up these theories, I just added links to published material on the web. Most of the allegation came from Chinese govt. after they got results of their own investigation. None of them claim it was a false flag op, except one coming from one fellow American above.


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## Pangu

*Washington Promotes Islamism and Political Destabilization in Xinjiang Uygur, China’s Oil and Gas Rich Region*

By Vladislav Gulevich
Global Research, October 30, 2013
Url of this article:
Washington Promotes Islamism and Political Destabilization in Xinjiang Uygur, China’s Oil and Gas Rich Region | Global Research
_The Xinjiang Uighur region of China has been in the news in relation to the terrorist attack on October 29, 2013 in Tienanmen, Beijing. While there is no evidence of foreign involvement in the suicide bombing in Tienanmen square, it should be noted that Washington supports the separatist movement in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region_ (M. Ch. GR Editor)

The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is the western edge of China (Xinjiang means new frontier in Chinese).

It borders on Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Mongolia and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. 9 million Uyghurs (Sunni Muslims) make up 45% of the total population of the Region. From time to time protests hit the streets calling for independence from China. The USA has a role to play here, it defends the separatists on the international scene. The Uygur culture or rights don’t mean anything for Washington, but the Region enjoys strategically important geographic position being situated in the heart of Eurasia which is viewed as an area of its vital interests by the United States.

For the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union the Xinjiang Uygur Region was an area where its interests conflicted with Great Britain. The region provided access to India. Today there is a conflict of interests with the United States, which finds it important strategically to deny Russia and China an access the Indian Ocean.






Establishing control over the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region means getting a springboard for US penetration into the heartland of Eurasia. For instance, the geographic position of Kazakhstan makes it kind of a buffer zone against the Islamic radicalism coming from Afghanistan. Crossing the Kazakh territory, radicals would get to Russia (Kazakhstan borders on Astrakhan, Chelyabinsk, Saratov, Volgograd, Novosibirsk, Omsk and Tyumen regions of the Russian Federation). Muslim Bashkiria and Tatarstan are in the vicinity.

While the USSR contained the spread of Islamic extremism, having tightly closed the southern border, Kazakhstan and Western Siberia remained parts of the Soviet Union. It has all changed by now. The US intervention into Afghanistan has exacerbated the situation near the southern part of Russia. In case the US gets a foothold in the Xinjiang Uygur Region, the things will exponentially worsen, there are many Uyghurs living in Central Asia (250000 in Kazakhstan, 60000 in Kyrgyzstan, 50000 in Uzbekistan etc).

The Region is rich in oil and gas, as well as rare-earth metals. There are 52 minerals extracted there. It’s an important trade and transportation hub, an economic center of western China. The Chinese commodities cross its territory to get transported to the Pakistani port of Karachi and then to South Asia. Pakistan and China are strategic allies, the destabilization of Xinjiang would hinder the flow of goods from Islamabad to Beijing. The Chinese law enforcement agencies report there are people on the wanted list in Pakistan among the dead Uyghur separatists. At that Beijing does its best to have good relations with Islamabad (1).

There is a major telecommunications project under construction – the Trans-Asia-Europe Fiber Optic Line, which is to connect Shanghai, China and Frankfurt, Germany passing through the Region (2). Oil and gas flows from the Caspian will cross it on the way to the Asia-Pacific. The Region borders on Tibet. The hue and cry raised by Washington from time to time over the human rights violations in Tibet is a trick the US propaganda machine resorts to while waging an information war against China.






_Image: Head of the World Uyghur Congress, millionaire Rebiya Kadeer with George W. Bush._

The US goes to any length to support the Uygur separatists abroad, for instance the World Uyghur Congress headed by Rabiya Kadir , one of the richest Chinese in the world… She meets US congressmen and even has had a meeting with George Bush. She is a hyped symbol of Uyghur resistance. The 10 Conditions of Love movie devoted to her was shot in 2009. Despite the protests from Beijing, it was included into the Melbourne festival’s program.

The World Uyghur Congress cooperates with the so-called Tibetan government in exile and has branches in many countries, even in Australia. It should be noted that Anglo-Saxon powers (the United States of America, Great Britain, New Zealand and Australia) have been including China into their agenda for a number of years, some time ago Australia became a host country to US Marine Corps unit.

Washington predominantly uses three issues to exert pressure on China: Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang, where separatist protests are on the rise. That’s why the United States is well disposed towards the growth of Uyghur nationalism, using every opportunity to spur its radicalization…

*Notes*

1) Jacob Zenn. Insurgency in Xinjiang Complicates Chinese-Pakistani Relations.
2) V. Dergachev. Dragon against Anaconda in Xinjiang’s Quicksand.
Copyright © 2014 Global Research

Washington Promotes Islamism and Political Destabilization in Xinjiang Uygur, China’s Oil and Gas Rich Region | Global Research

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## Hamartia Antidote

xudeen said:


> The US intervention into Afghanistan has exacerbated the situation near the southern part of Russia.



Yes the Taliban running Afghanistan before the American invasion were a friendly bunch and had absolutely no interest in spreading their ideals around. It's not like Russia ever had any trouble with radicals in Afghanistan in the past.


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## kalu_miah

xudeen said:


> *Washington Promotes Islamism and Political Destabilization in Xinjiang Uygur, China’s Oil and Gas Rich Region*
> 
> By Vladislav Gulevich
> Global Research, October 30, 2013
> Url of this article:
> Washington Promotes Islamism and Political Destabilization in Xinjiang Uygur, China’s Oil and Gas Rich Region | Global Research
> _The Xinjiang Uighur region of China has been in the news in relation to the terrorist attack on October 29, 2013 in Tienanmen, Beijing. While there is no evidence of foreign involvement in the suicide bombing in Tienanmen square, it should be noted that Washington supports the separatist movement in the Xinjiang Uighur autonomous region_ (M. Ch. GR Editor)
> 
> The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is the western edge of China (Xinjiang means new frontier in Chinese).
> 
> It borders on Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Mongolia and the Indian state of Jammu and Kashmir. 9 million Uyghurs (Sunni Muslims) make up 45% of the total population of the Region. From time to time protests hit the streets calling for independence from China. The USA has a role to play here, it defends the separatists on the international scene. The Uygur culture or rights don’t mean anything for Washington, but the Region enjoys strategically important geographic position being situated in the heart of Eurasia which is viewed as an area of its vital interests by the United States.
> 
> For the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union the Xinjiang Uygur Region was an area where its interests conflicted with Great Britain. The region provided access to India. Today there is a conflict of interests with the United States, which finds it important strategically to deny Russia and China an access the Indian Ocean.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Establishing control over the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region means getting a springboard for US penetration into the heartland of Eurasia. For instance, the geographic position of Kazakhstan makes it kind of a buffer zone against the Islamic radicalism coming from Afghanistan. Crossing the Kazakh territory, radicals would get to Russia (Kazakhstan borders on Astrakhan, Chelyabinsk, Saratov, Volgograd, Novosibirsk, Omsk and Tyumen regions of the Russian Federation). Muslim Bashkiria and Tatarstan are in the vicinity.
> 
> While the USSR contained the spread of Islamic extremism, having tightly closed the southern border, Kazakhstan and Western Siberia remained parts of the Soviet Union. It has all changed by now. The US intervention into Afghanistan has exacerbated the situation near the southern part of Russia. In case the US gets a foothold in the Xinjiang Uygur Region, the things will exponentially worsen, there are many Uyghurs living in Central Asia (250000 in Kazakhstan, 60000 in Kyrgyzstan, 50000 in Uzbekistan etc).
> 
> The Region is rich in oil and gas, as well as rare-earth metals. There are 52 minerals extracted there. It’s an important trade and transportation hub, an economic center of western China. The Chinese commodities cross its territory to get transported to the Pakistani port of Karachi and then to South Asia. Pakistan and China are strategic allies, the destabilization of Xinjiang would hinder the flow of goods from Islamabad to Beijing. The Chinese law enforcement agencies report there are people on the wanted list in Pakistan among the dead Uyghur separatists. At that Beijing does its best to have good relations with Islamabad (1).
> 
> There is a major telecommunications project under construction – the Trans-Asia-Europe Fiber Optic Line, which is to connect Shanghai, China and Frankfurt, Germany passing through the Region (2). Oil and gas flows from the Caspian will cross it on the way to the Asia-Pacific. The Region borders on Tibet. The hue and cry raised by Washington from time to time over the human rights violations in Tibet is a trick the US propaganda machine resorts to while waging an information war against China.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Image: Head of the World Uyghur Congress, millionaire Rebiya Kadeer with George W. Bush._
> 
> The US goes to any length to support the Uygur separatists abroad, for instance the World Uyghur Congress headed by Rabiya Kadir , one of the richest Chinese in the world… She meets US congressmen and even has had a meeting with George Bush. She is a hyped symbol of Uyghur resistance. The 10 Conditions of Love movie devoted to her was shot in 2009. Despite the protests from Beijing, it was included into the Melbourne festival’s program.
> 
> The World Uyghur Congress cooperates with the so-called Tibetan government in exile and has branches in many countries, even in Australia. It should be noted that Anglo-Saxon powers (the United States of America, Great Britain, New Zealand and Australia) have been including China into their agenda for a number of years, some time ago Australia became a host country to US Marine Corps unit.
> 
> Washington predominantly uses three issues to exert pressure on China: Taiwan, Tibet and Xinjiang, where separatist protests are on the rise. That’s why the United States is well disposed towards the growth of Uyghur nationalism, using every opportunity to spur its radicalization…
> 
> *Notes*
> 
> 1) Jacob Zenn. Insurgency in Xinjiang Complicates Chinese-Pakistani Relations.
> 2) V. Dergachev. Dragon against Anaconda in Xinjiang’s Quicksand.
> Copyright © 2014 Global Research
> 
> Washington Promotes Islamism and Political Destabilization in Xinjiang Uygur, China’s Oil and Gas Rich Region | Global Research



Related Mackinder's Heartland theory:
The Geographical Pivot of History - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> *United States' foreign affairs and the Heartland*
> Arguably, the United States has also been using the Heartland Theory in their guidelines in foreign affairs. The US has military bases all over the world and has kept good allies with Saudi Arabia and Kuwait which keep a United States influence in the Middle East, close to the Pivot Area. Having military presences in Afghanistan, the Iraq War and the NATO expansion in Europe gave the United States even more power in an area that is pivotal to having control of the Heartland.[2]
> 
> *References*
> 
> *Jump up^* Mackinder, Halford John, Sir (1996). "Democratic Ideals and Reality". _The Geographical Pivot of History_. National Defense University Press. pp. 175–193. Retrieved 18 August 2013.
> *Jump up^* NATO Looks East - Google Books
> *Further reading*
> 
> CIA's Analysis of the Soviet Union, 1947-1991 links to a large number of CIA analyses of Soviet economic, technological and military capability (as well as e.g. foreign policy), all in PDF format.
> William R. Keylor, _The Twentieth-Century World and Beyond: An International History Since 1900_, 2006. ISBN 0-19-516843-7
> Odom, W.E. (1998) "The Collapse of the Soviet Military". Yale University Press. ISBN 0-300-08271-1
> Mackinder, H.J. "The Geographical Pivot of History", in "Democratic Ideals and Reality", Washington, DC: National Defense University Press, 1996, pp. 175–193.
> Sempa, F.P. (2000) "Mackinder's World" describes the background to Mackinder's thinking, the development of his theory after World War I (with many quotes) and its influence on geo-strategic thinking.
> Venier, Pascal. "The Geographical Pivot of History and Early 20th Century Geopolitical Culture", Geographical Journal, vol. 170, no 4, December 2004, pp. 330–336.
> 
> Christopher, J.F "Sir Halford Mackinder, Geopolitics, and Policymaking in the 21st Century", Parameters, Summer 2000





Peter C said:


> Yes the Taliban running Afghanistan before the American invasion were a friendly bunch and had absolutely no interest in spreading their ideals around. It's not like Russia ever had any trouble with radicals in Afghanistan in the past.



Why not mention how Afghanistan was the geopolitical football and a field of proxy war between US and Soviet Union and how "Islamic extremism" was used as a geopolitical tool to thwart the Soviet expansionism. This was way before Taliban ever came into being as a byproduct of the US-Saudi-Pakistan Jihad project against the Soviets. One should never play with fire.

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## Hamartia Antidote

kalu_miah said:


> Why not mention how Afghanistan was the geopolitical football and a field of proxy war between US and Soviet Union and how "Islamic extremism" was used as a geopolitical tool to thwart the Soviet expansionism. This was way before Taliban ever came into being as a byproduct of the US-Saudi-Pakistan Jihad project against the Soviets. One should never play with fire.



It certainly was and as you mentioned the US was not the only player,

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## Beidou2020

boomslang said:


> Nah !! We are broke and stupid, remember ? It's a Chinese false flag op to justify a crack down on the Uighur. They do that stuff all the time.



Nah.

False flags is a Yankee invention.

We Chinese are very peaceful people and don't have such evil minds to do such heinous acts such as false flags.

We leave the false flag acts to professionals like fascist Germany and fascist America.

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## OrionHunter

zenglanmu said:


> Terrorists cound shake the foundation of our buildings, but they can not shake the foundation of our nation.


Well Said!! 

But what they aimed at is publicity of their 'cause' for which they seem to have succeeded to a certain extent.


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## bolo

Beidou2020 said:


> Nah.
> 
> False flags is a Yankee invention.
> 
> We Chinese are very peaceful people and don't have such evil minds to do such heinous acts such as false flags.
> 
> We leave the false flag acts to professionals like fascist Germany and fascist America.


Chinese should learn this tactic from yankee so you guys can destabilize usa.


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## BoQ77

Washington loves MOngolia too ... xinjiang, and tibet and mongolia ... and .... Myanmar ... and Vietnam ...
All they paid much attention ...


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## Pangu

BoQ77 said:


> Washington loves MOngolia too ... xinjiang, and tibet and mongolia ... and .... Myanmar ... and Vietnam ...
> All they paid much attention ...



Yes, Washington loves it's puppets we know that.

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## Beidou2020



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## cirr

The total output value of the Chinese security industry is expected to reach a princely sum of 500 billion yuan in 2015。

The industry is predicted to grow an annual average of 20% for the next 10 years，with the likes of HIKVISION（2013 revenue 10.75 billion yuan）becoming dominant international players in their field of specialization。

Security is a trillion dollar biz and Chinese firms，especially the hardware/equipment suppliers，could and should benefit greatly from tensions the world over that are the direct results of stupid American policies。

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## INDIC

kalu_miah said:


> Some interesting links:
> Who disrupts Pak-China relations? | China Defense Mashup



Do you know Uyghur terror groups hiding in Waziristan of Pakistan.


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## BoQ77

China army was ordered to practice more and more recently.
Maybe China leaders worry about the real combats would likely happen. 
Somewhere, around ...


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## kalu_miah

INDIC said:


> Do you know Uyghur terror groups hiding in Waziristan of Pakistan.



Funded by RAW, the intelligence agency of India?


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## INDIC

kalu_miah said:


> Funded by RAW, the intelligence agency of India?



The crappy allegation.


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## senheiser

funny how western analysts always say china is influencing central asia with their money/softpower. Its probably the other way around, a lot of the money going into central asia from china comes back to sponsor Turkish jihadism.

China is only save if its stops importing from Muslim countries completely and focus more on Russia and Venezuala for Oil and Gas.

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## Ahiska

senheiser said:


> funny how western analysts always say china is influencing central asia with their money/softpower. Its probably the other way around, a lot of the money going into central asia from china comes back to sponsor Turkish jihadism.
> 
> China is only save if its stops importing from Muslim countries completely and focus more on Russia and Venezuala for Oil and Gas.


Central Asia is a safeheaven in relation to countries like Venezuela.
Also lol at Turkish jihadism

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## kalu_miah

senheiser said:


> funny how western analysts always say china is influencing central asia with their money/softpower. Its probably the other way around, a lot of the money going into central asia from china comes back to sponsor Turkish jihadism.
> 
> China is only save if its stops importing from Muslim countries completely and focus more on Russia and Venezuala for Oil and Gas.



There has to be some evidence for this to say that this "Jihadism" in Xinjiang is coming from the 5 stans. Mostly these former Soviet states are run by local ex-KGB men as dictators, except for Kyrgyzstan which seems to have some form of democracy, but even there this democracy is run by strongman. Russia has varying level of leverage and influence in all 5 stans. So Turkish (which actually means from Turkey, Central Asians are Turkic) Jihadism is unlikely in this area, it is more likely I think it could be coming from more wealthier Uighur diaspora in the West or Turkey itself, but then this is wild guess on my part, without any evidence. I do not believe Western intelligence agencies would be directly involved, but rather some partner countries with experience with this sort of stuff. For any crime one must look at who benefits from the crime and its after effects, that should give us some clue, as to where to look.

Terrorism in China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If you look at the table, events have picked up pace since 2010-2011. In 2011 there were 2 events, 2012 only one, in 2013 there were 3 and now in 2014, we already have 2 events in recent months. So definitely there is a pattern, these are no longer isolated incidents, some group is behind this and they are being funded by some backers. Question is who?


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## TaiShang

Handle the Turks, you handle Xinjiang terrorism. The swamp is Turkey and China needs to drain it. Terrorist backing is semi-official. China must handle Turkish-encouraged terrorism in the same semi official manner.

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## StarCraft_ZT




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## Fukuoka

http://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.com...g-in-xinjiang-and-beyond/?partner=rss&emc=rss


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## Anastasia Wang

Terrostists should be toughly punished. But terrosits and Muslims are different. The muslims that I know are very friendly and very nice. They are kind people.

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## Lux de Veritas

*PRC admit Islamofascism problem in Xinjiang *

*While some PDF PRC clowns denied Xinjiang got an Islamic problem, the PRC government already admitted it. These clowns are trying to deliver China into the sword of evil Islamofascist, by siding with Islamofascist and attacking patriotic Chinese such as Lux myself.*

China blames religious extremists for station bombing| Reuters

(Reuters) - An attack at a train station in China's western city of Urumqi was carried out by two religious extremists, who both died in the blast, the government said on Thursday.

Three people were killed, including the assailants, and 79 wounded in a bomb and knife attack at the station on Wednesday, according to the government and state media, as President Xi Jinping was wrapping up a visit to the area.

The Xinjiang regional government said on its official news website (天山网 - 新疆新闻门户 that the two attackers who were killed had "long been influenced by extremist religious thought and participated in extremist religious activities".

It identified one of them as Sedierding Shawuti, a 39-year-old man from Xayar county in Xinjiang's Aksu region. The man is a member of the Muslim Uighur minority, judging by his name.

It did not identify the other person. The third person who was killed was a bystander, the government said.

The People's Daily, the official newspaper of the ruling Chinese Communist Party, said earlier on its microblog that "two mobsters set off bombs on their bodies and died".

But the newspaper did not call it a suicide bombing.

Xinjiang, resource-rich and strategically located on the borders of central Asia, has been beset by violence for years, blamed by the government on Islamist militants and separatists.

Exiles and many rights groups say the real cause of the unrest is China's heavy-handed policies, including curbs on Islam and the culture and language of the Uighur people.

The Wednesday blast was the first bomb attack in the capital of Xinjiang region in 17 years. It came soon after the arrival of a train from a mainly Han Chinese province, state media said.

The Xinhua news agency earlier cited police as saying "knife-wielding mobs" slashed at people at an exit of the station and set off explosives.

The bombing was possibly timed to coincide with a visit to the region with a large Muslim minority by President Xi, when security was likely to have been heavy.

On Thursday, dozens of police vans were parked around the station, while camouflaged police with assault rifles patrolled its entrance. Despite the security, the station was busy and appeared to be operating normally.

The government called the attackers "terrorists", a term it uses to describe Islamist militants and separatists in Xinjiang who have waged a sometimes violent campaign for an independent East Turkestan state.

State media did not say if Xi, who was wrapping up his visit to the region, was anywhere near Urumqi at the time.

Pan Zhiping, a retired expert on Central Asia at Xinjiang's Academy of Social Science, described the attack as well organized, saying it was timed to coincide with Xi's visit.

"It is very clear that they are challenging the Chinese government," he said.

"There was a time last year when they were targeting the public security bureau, the police stations and the troops. Now it's indiscriminate - terrorist activities are conducted in places where people gather the most."

There has been no claim of responsibility.

In remarks released on Thursday from Xi's trip to Xinjiang, the president urged troops there to "strike crushing blows against violent terrorist forces and resolutely strike against terrorists who are swollen with arrogance".

"Resolutely crush the space for terrorist activities and contain the spreading trend of escalation," Xi said.

"ACT OF DEFIANCE"

Nicholas Bequelin, a senior researcher at New York-based Human Rights Watch who follows developments in Xinjiang, called the attack "an unprecedented act of defiance from Uighurs who oppose the Chinese state".

"It's hugely significant and it's extremely politically embarrassing for Xi Jinping who has taken a very hard stance on the Xinjiang issue, and made a big show while visiting Xinjiang that Xinjiang is safe for the Han," he said.

It was also the largest militant attack in Urumqi since the government blamed Uighurs for stabbing hundreds of Han Chinese with needles in 2009.

No one was killed in that incident, but it led to protests demanding the removal of the region's top official for failing to protect Han people, China's majority ethnic group.

Earlier that year, almost 200 people died in ethnic riots in Urumqi. Bombs on buses there killed nine people in 1997.

The city is heavily populated by Han Chinese, who have flooded there seeking businessopportunities. Uighurs have complained that they have been frozen out of the job market.

"I just don't believe it was a Uighur who did this," said one 35-year-old Uighur man selling dried fruit about 100 meters from the blast site. "These public spaces aren't safe for anyone, Uighur or Han."

EXILES BLAME HEAVY-HANDED RULE

The attack came on the eve of a two-day Labour Day holiday, a time of heavy travel inChina.

"Everyone was running and hiding. I was terrified," said Li Tianlin, a 53-year-old laborer. "We are still afraid and don't dare go over to the train station."

Exiles and rights groups say the cause of unrest in Xinjiang is heavy-handed rule by authorities, including curbs on Islam and the culture and language of the Uighur people.

Xinhua condemned the spokesman for the German-based World Uyghur Congress exile group for saying that "such incidents could happen again at any time".

The spokesman, Dilxat Raxit, said in a email that more than 100 Uighurs had been detained since the attack, adding that Xi's visit was being used by the government an excuse to step up "armed repression" in Xinjiang.

"Any provocation by China will directly inflame the situation and further worsen the unrest," he said.

Luo Fuyong, a spokesman for the Xinjiang government, rejected Raxit's accusations. "This is deliberate hostile rumor-mongering," Luo told Reuters by telephone.

Wednesday's attack was the latest in a spate of violence blamed by the government on Uighur militants.

In March, 29 people were stabbed to death in the southwestern city of Kunming. Five months earlier, a car ploughed into tourists on the edge of Beijing's Tiananmen Square, killing the car's three occupants and two bystanders.

Unrest in Xinjiang has caused the death of more than 100 people in the past year.


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## Ahiska

And for what reason did you make this Thread?

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## Lux de Veritas

Ahiska said:


> And for what reason did you make this Thread?



Truth


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## senheiser

Turks make nothing but problems china and russia should gang up and take all their lands. Kazakhstan for Russia the rest of central asia for China


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## Ahiska

Lux de Veritas said:


> Truth


The Truth over why you were banned before?



senheiser said:


> Turks make nothing but problems china and russia should gang up and take all their lands. Kazakhstan for Russia the rest of central asia for China


Go dream elsewhere
Also you are not Russian so i cant even take you seriously

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## Lux de Veritas

Ahiska said:


> The Truth over why you were banned before?
> 
> 
> Go dream elsewhere
> Also you are not Russian so i cant even take you seriously



I hope by engaging in debate, Islamofascist will slowly be aware that their ways are wrong. Islamofascist is the biggest pee-er and shitter over their minorities head. Yet Islamofascist never failed to think they are being discriminated and they are victim.

Also I do not like fascist PRC. Even though I am a Chinese, I support truth. I rebut fascist PRC jingoism.


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## TaiShang

Lux de Veritas said:


> Also I do not like fascist PRC. Even though I am a Chinese, I support truth. I rebut fascist PRC jingoism.



Describe fascism before calling China a fascist, ape.

Fascism is inherently anti-Communist. Read Italian syndicalist movement and Gramsci. Clueless idiot clown.


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## Ahiska

Lux de Veritas said:


> I hope by engaging in debate, Islamofascist will slowly be aware that their ways are wrong. Islamofascist is the biggest pee-er and shitter over their minorities head. Yet Islamofascist never failed to think they are being discriminated and they are victim.
> 
> Also I do not like fascist PRC. Even though I am a Chinese, I support truth. I rebut fascist PRC jingoism.


Wth is Islamofascism?

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## Lux de Veritas

TaiShang said:


> Describe fascism before calling China a fascist, ape.
> 
> Fascism is inherently anti-Communist. Read Italian syndicalist movement and Gramsci. Clueless idiot clown.



There are a lot of good Chinese (Lux myself is good Chinese), just some of them in PDF are not so good. I hope they will change. Dont anyhow USA no good, Russia good, Japan no good, Vietnam no good, KMT no good, Mao good, Taiwan no good.....etc



Ahiska said:


> Wth is Islamofascism?



Like some people on earth always think of murder when they see someone convert. Who on earth can be so wicked and moronic. God punish them by making them low IQ, loser unless they manage to dig a pile of oil beneath their backyard.

I got much more example of their stupidity and atrociousness...etc


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## GeHAC

Lux de Veritas said:


> There are a lot of good Chinese (Lux myself is good Chinese), just some of them in PDF are not so good. I hope they will change. Dont anyhow USA no good, Russia good, Japan no good, Vietnam no good, KMT no good, Mao good, Taiwan no good.....etc
> 
> 
> 
> Like some people on earth always think of murder when they see someone convert. Who on earth can be so wicked and moronic. God punish them by making them low IQ, loser unless they manage to dig a pile of oil beneath their backyard.
> 
> I got much more example of their stupidity and atrociousness...etc



Dont use words you dont really know，lol

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## iajj

senheiser said:


> Turks make nothing but problems china and russia should gang up and take all their lands. Kazakhstan for Russia the rest of central asia for China


 
the fight against panturkicism is a common one for europeans, balkans, arabs, persians, russians and chinese, but especially for russians and chinese. for the latter two alone are capable of projecting a sphere of non-interference that denies these turkicist scams their jew and angloamerican aid.



Lux de Veritas said:


> There are a lot of good Chinese (Lux myself is good Chinese), just some of them in PDF are not so good. I hope they will change. Dont anyhow USA no good, Russia good, Japan no good, Vietnam no good, KMT no good, Mao good, Taiwan no good.....etc


 
it is a bit rich for a banana chinese to criticize continental chinese for seeing russians and nipponzi/turkics/debazi/anglosaxons on friends-and-enemies terms. you know, your lowly sort don't even get to pick your own enemies.

also, you have only incomplete sovereignty over a booger-sized territory (you know where this insult came from, do you? it came from one bunch of banana chinese to another) and yet you presume to question chinese policies in a vast territory coping with turkicist terrorists numbered in millions and with foreign assistance?

the real truth is: you are a banana and everything in your eyes is lensed through the banana-colored shades you are wearing.


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## bolo

iajj said:


> the fight against panturkicism is a common one for europeans, balkans, arabs, persians, russians and chinese, but especially for russians and chinese. for the latter two alone are capable of projecting a sphere of non-interference that denies these turkicist scams their jew and angloamerican aid.
> 
> 
> 
> it is a bit rich for a banana chinese to criticize continental chinese for seeing russians and nipponzi/turkics/debazi/anglosaxons on friends-and-enemies terms. you know, your lowly sort don't even get to pick your own enemies.
> 
> also, you have only incomplete sovereignty over a booger-sized territory (you know where this insult came from, do you? it came from one bunch of banana chinese to another) and yet you presume to question chinese policies in a vast territory coping with turkicist terrorists numbered in millions and with foreign assistance?
> 
> the real truth is: you are a banana and everything in your eyes is lensed through the banana-colored shades you are wearing.


 
Lux is no banana Chinese but a monkey Malay.


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## Lux de Veritas

iajj said:


> the fight against panturkicism is a common one for europeans, balkans, arabs, persians, russians and chinese, but especially for russians and chinese. for the latter two alone are capable of projecting a sphere of non-interference that denies these turkicist scams their jew and angloamerican aid.
> 
> 
> 
> it is a bit rich for a banana chinese to criticize continental chinese for seeing russians and nipponzi/turkics/debazi/anglosaxons on friends-and-enemies terms. you know, your lowly sort don't even get to pick your own enemies.
> 
> also, you have only incomplete sovereignty over a booger-sized territory (you know where this insult came from, do you? it came from one bunch of banana chinese to another) and yet you presume to question chinese policies in a vast territory coping with turkicist terrorists numbered in millions and with foreign assistance?
> 
> the real truth is: you are a banana and everything in your eyes is lensed through the banana-colored shades you are wearing.





bolo said:


> Lux is no banana Chinese but a monkey Malay.



haha.. I am glad that I attract your attention.

By engaging me you guys will know you are wrong and become good.


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## Pakistanisage

The Troll is back ......

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## Lux de Veritas

*Al Jazeera admits Islamofascism in Xinjiang

The whole world sees Xinjiang problem is due to too much mosque and consequently, too much Islamofascists. Even Muslim Al Jazeera admits, only PDF PRC clowns especially a WholeX guy deny and keep saying Islam is big victim.*

Al jazeera Center for Studies - Reports - Unrest in Xinjiang, Uyghur Province in China

Before the communists came into power in 1949, there were more than 20,000 mosques in Xinjiang. The number plummeted to less than 500 during the Cultural Revolution. As Figure 3 shows, there have been two waves of religious tides in 1980s and after 2006, reflecting in the rapid increase of mosques.(10) The second wave is still on-going, and the statistics indicate a startling pace that more than 10000 mosques were built within 5 years. This fact vividly illustrates the recent religious rise among the Uyghur population in Xinjiang, which brought another remarkable phenomenon: the flourish of underground Islamic schools. (11) In China, all of the religious activities are regulated by the state authority, the administration of religious affairs, including establishment of official places for worship (mosque, church, temple, etc.), training of religious clergy, management of religious activities such as membership registration, service organization, and preacher certification. However, the recent religious revival among the Uyghur population develops through unofficial channels to avoid state control. These unofficial religious organisations are very capable to attract followers and build mobilizing power through underground religious preaching. The records of recent ‘violent incidents’ suggest that many attacks were associated with these underground organizations and networks, and they now become the prime target to crack down for the authority.

*The Rise of Islamic Activism*
The prevalent religious atmosphere has bought two important political consequences. First, in response to the possible security hazard, Beijing adopts the full-scale security measures to maintain social stability. Many of them are perceived very repressive and disrespectful to the Muslim population, e.g. banning regular religious activities, forbidding full-face veil, forcing to join the communist party, and abusing coercive power. (12) Second, the rigid security measures provoke strong backlash and lead to the rise of Islamic activism against Beijing' rule. Incidents of spontaneous ‘violence’ highlight the fiercest reaction against official implementation of the urban grid management system, in which policemen, community workers, as well as local official’s team up to implement strict social control and prevent any anti-governmental activities. Many of the recent attacks broke out during the home visit when community workers or local officials reported illegal religious gathering or possession of weapons to the police. Conflicts of this nature recently become more intense because cases of retaliation also happen after the police wipe out the underground organization by military means. Uyghur's strong resistance to Beijing's strict security measures is the pivotal reason accounting for the intensification of recent attacks in Xinjiang.



*Conclusion*

The recent unrest in Xinjiang is a complex phenomenon involved with multifaceted factors. Careful attention has to be made for a comprehensive understanding, and any one-dimensional explanation could lead to a biased conclusion that neglects other related factors. From a long-term point of view, the recent Xinjiang unrest reflects the upsurge of social problems of all kind in a fast-changing society with interest conflicts along the ethnic cleavage. The short-term causes, however, are more related to the rise of Islamic activism that clashes with China's powerful security measures. The key to resolving these conflicts depends on how Beijing can significantly improve Uyghur's living standards and find its way to accommodate the rise of Islamic identity.


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## Kyle Sun

How much you get paid for your so hard working in PDF?

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## Lux de Veritas

Kyle Sun said:


> How much you get paid for your so hard working in PDF?



I am a patriotic Chinese. It is my passion to see Chinese become good people.


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## Kyle Sun

Lux de Veritas said:


> I am a patriotic Chinese. It is my passion to see Chinese become good people.


Not only Chinese member here do not like you .

You should think about your words and behavior.

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## Beast

How come the hui muslim of China has no problem while only Uyghur?

Its nonsense to suggest CCP oppressive method that causes the problem. In fact its CCP too lenient and too much freedom given that they led astray by outside influence.


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## Lux de Veritas

Beast said:


> How come the hui muslim of China has no problem while only Uyghur?
> 
> Its nonsense to suggest CCP oppressive method that causes the problem. In fact its CCP too lenient and too much freedom given that they led astray by outside influence.



Hui is a stupid classification by PRC. I read somewhere that even Ma Bufang denied there is such thing as Hui people. 只有回教，没有回族. Someone may be able to cite the source.

The Hui see themselves more or less as Han with a different religion, or at the very least "Chinese" 中华民族. I suspect Hui may think themselves more Chinese race than "Taiwanese Han Chinese".

For unknown reason, commie divides Han Chinese into Hui (although the classification has some historical basis), which they can easily classified as "Muslim Han" just like "Christian Han".


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## Developereo

Beast said:


> How come the hui muslim of China has no problem while only Uyghur?



The Uyghur issue is not about religion, but ethnic history. The history of Xinjiang is complicated and the Uyghurs have some legitimate grievances. However, some opportunistic elements (from the West) are exploiting the situation.


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## TaiShang

Lux de Veritas said:


> *Al Jazeera admits Islamofascism in Xinjiang
> 
> The whole world sees Xinjiang problem is due to too much mosque and consequently, too much Islamofascists. Even Muslim Al Jazeera admits, only PDF PRC clowns especially a WholeX guy deny and keep saying Islam is big victim.*
> 
> Al jazeera Center for Studies - Reports - Unrest in Xinjiang, Uyghur Province in China
> 
> Before the communists came into power in 1949, there were more than 20,000 mosques in Xinjiang. The number plummeted to less than 500 during the Cultural Revolution. As Figure 3 shows, there have been two waves of religious tides in 1980s and after 2006, reflecting in the rapid increase of mosques.(10) The second wave is still on-going, and the statistics indicate a startling pace that more than 10000 mosques were built within 5 years. This fact vividly illustrates the recent religious rise among the Uyghur population in Xinjiang, which brought another remarkable phenomenon: the flourish of underground Islamic schools. (11) In China, all of the religious activities are regulated by the state authority, the administration of religious affairs, including establishment of official places for worship (mosque, church, temple, etc.), training of religious clergy, management of religious activities such as membership registration, service organization, and preacher certification. However, the recent religious revival among the Uyghur population develops through unofficial channels to avoid state control. These unofficial religious organisations are very capable to attract followers and build mobilizing power through underground religious preaching. The records of recent ‘violent incidents’ suggest that many attacks were associated with these underground organizations and networks, and they now become the prime target to crack down for the authority.
> 
> *The Rise of Islamic Activism*
> The prevalent religious atmosphere has bought two important political consequences. First, in response to the possible security hazard, Beijing adopts the full-scale security measures to maintain social stability. Many of them are perceived very repressive and disrespectful to the Muslim population, e.g. banning regular religious activities, forbidding full-face veil, forcing to join the communist party, and abusing coercive power. (12) Second, the rigid security measures provoke strong backlash and lead to the rise of Islamic activism against Beijing' rule. Incidents of spontaneous ‘violence’ highlight the fiercest reaction against official implementation of the urban grid management system, in which policemen, community workers, as well as local official’s team up to implement strict social control and prevent any anti-governmental activities. Many of the recent attacks broke out during the home visit when community workers or local officials reported illegal religious gathering or possession of weapons to the police. Conflicts of this nature recently become more intense because cases of retaliation also happen after the police wipe out the underground organization by military means. Uyghur's strong resistance to Beijing's strict security measures is the pivotal reason accounting for the intensification of recent attacks in Xinjiang.
> *
> Conclusion*
> 
> The recent unrest in Xinjiang is a complex phenomenon involved with multifaceted factors. Careful attention has to be made for a comprehensive understanding, and any one-dimensional explanation could lead to a biased conclusion that neglects other related factors. From a long-term point of view, the recent Xinjiang unrest reflects the upsurge of social problems of all kind in a fast-changing society with interest conflicts along the ethnic cleavage. The short-term causes, however, are more related to the rise of Islamic activism that clashes with China's powerful security measures. The key to resolving these conflicts depends on how Beijing can significantly improve Uyghur's living standards and find its way to accommodate the rise of Islamic identity.



Look, the Chinese (PRC) government knows very well (much better than you) what are the causes for extremism and terrorism. 

For once, please check out the *Blue Book on National Security *which has come out recently. 

The book clearly indicates the causes of terrorism in Xinjiang, which includes all the points you make -- international influence, indoctrination, extremist ideology in illegal schools and mosques, extremist ring/cell leaders, access to online content etc.

The blue book also lists all the recent attacks, the targets, the casualties etc. It is a very transparent and detailed report. 

Just consider, maybe Chinese government knows about their country that they govern bit more than you do, no? You seem to think black and white only, and pose to be smart, but, you fail to distinguish the greater geopolitical dimensions. 

Could the US eradicate terrorism on its land despite all the precautions and billions spent? 

Be reasonable.


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## Developereo

TaiShang said:


> Be reasonable.



This guy is a foam-at-the-mouth bigot. Many have tried to reason with him and failed.

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## Lux de Veritas

TaiShang said:


> Look, the Chinese (PRC) government knows very well (much better than you) what are the causes for extremism and terrorism.
> 
> For once, please check out the *Blue Book on National Security *which has come out recently.
> 
> The book clearly indicates the causes of terrorism in Xinjiang, which includes all the points you make -- international influence, indoctrination, extremist ideology in illegal schools and mosques, extremist ring/cell leaders, access to online content etc.
> 
> The blue book also lists all the recent attacks, the targets, the casualties etc. It is a very transparent and detailed report.
> 
> Just consider, maybe Chinese government knows about their country that they govern bit more than you do, no? You seem to think black and white only, and pose to be smart, but, you fail to distinguish the greater geopolitical dimensions.
> 
> Could the US eradicate terrorism on its land despite all the precautions and billions spent?
> 
> Be reasonable.



Of course I know PRC leadership is much clever. You never see me shooting at Chairman Xi, Hu...etc. I even praise Xi many times.

And PRC forum people are much smarter than here also. You get wack if someone try to paint Islamist as victim in Chinese language forum. Unfortunately I do not see patriots in PDF, there are a lot of WholeX type.


----------



## Ahiska

Lux de Veritas said:


> *Al Jazeera admits Islamofascism in Xinjiang
> 
> The whole world sees Xinjiang problem is due to too much mosque and consequently, too much Islamofascists. Even Muslim Al Jazeera admits, only PDF PRC clowns especially a WholeX guy deny and keep saying Islam is big victim.*
> 
> Al jazeera Center for Studies - Reports - Unrest in Xinjiang, Uyghur Province in China
> 
> Before the communists came into power in 1949, there were more than 20,000 mosques in Xinjiang. The number plummeted to less than 500 during the Cultural Revolution. As Figure 3 shows, there have been two waves of religious tides in 1980s and after 2006, reflecting in the rapid increase of mosques.(10) The second wave is still on-going, and the statistics indicate a startling pace that more than 10000 mosques were built within 5 years. This fact vividly illustrates the recent religious rise among the Uyghur population in Xinjiang, which brought another remarkable phenomenon: the flourish of underground Islamic schools. (11) In China, all of the religious activities are regulated by the state authority, the administration of religious affairs, including establishment of official places for worship (mosque, church, temple, etc.), training of religious clergy, management of religious activities such as membership registration, service organization, and preacher certification. However, the recent religious revival among the Uyghur population develops through unofficial channels to avoid state control. These unofficial religious organisations are very capable to attract followers and build mobilizing power through underground religious preaching. The records of recent ‘violent incidents’ suggest that many attacks were associated with these underground organizations and networks, and they now become the prime target to crack down for the authority.
> 
> *The Rise of Islamic Activism*
> The prevalent religious atmosphere has bought two important political consequences. First, in response to the possible security hazard, Beijing adopts the full-scale security measures to maintain social stability. Many of them are perceived very repressive and disrespectful to the Muslim population, e.g. banning regular religious activities, forbidding full-face veil, forcing to join the communist party, and abusing coercive power. (12) Second, the rigid security measures provoke strong backlash and lead to the rise of Islamic activism against Beijing' rule. Incidents of spontaneous ‘violence’ highlight the fiercest reaction against official implementation of the urban grid management system, in which policemen, community workers, as well as local official’s team up to implement strict social control and prevent any anti-governmental activities. Many of the recent attacks broke out during the home visit when community workers or local officials reported illegal religious gathering or possession of weapons to the police. Conflicts of this nature recently become more intense because cases of retaliation also happen after the police wipe out the underground organization by military means. Uyghur's strong resistance to Beijing's strict security measures is the pivotal reason accounting for the intensification of recent attacks in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> *Conclusion*
> 
> The recent unrest in Xinjiang is a complex phenomenon involved with multifaceted factors. Careful attention has to be made for a comprehensive understanding, and any one-dimensional explanation could lead to a biased conclusion that neglects other related factors. From a long-term point of view, the recent Xinjiang unrest reflects the upsurge of social problems of all kind in a fast-changing society with interest conflicts along the ethnic cleavage. The short-term causes, however, are more related to the rise of Islamic activism that clashes with China's powerful security measures. The key to resolving these conflicts depends on how Beijing can significantly improve Uyghur's living standards and find its way to accommodate the rise of Islamic identity.


Nice way of sensationalise of the news the original aticle has no word of that stupid "Islamofascism" that you always write

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## Lux de Veritas

*Islamist: China is the next “number one enemy” after America.... it is acceptable to behead “Chinese Buddhists"*

Uighur Militants Seek Targets outside Xinjiang
In addition to the Islom Awazi’s release of the TIP statements on Kunming, Tiananmen, and dozens of other attacks, it has also released videos of the religious leader of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Abu Zar al-Burmi. In 2013, al-Burmi sat with Kazakh and Russian-speaking TIP militants and warned in fluent Uzbek language (with a Fergana dialect) that China is the next “number one enemy” after America. More recently, in February 2014, al-Burmi also said it is acceptable to behead “Chinese Buddhists.”

*To all PDF PRC who support Islamist, a big 3rd finger to you.*


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## steelseries779

Lux de Veritas said:


> *Islamist: China is the next “number one enemy” after America.... it is acceptable to behead “Chinese Buddhists"*
> 
> Uighur Militants Seek Targets outside Xinjiang
> In addition to the Islom Awazi’s release of the TIP statements on Kunming, Tiananmen, and dozens of other attacks, it has also released videos of the religious leader of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Abu Zar al-Burmi. In 2013, al-Burmi sat with Kazakh and Russian-speaking TIP militants and warned in fluent Uzbek language (with a Fergana dialect) that China is the next “number one enemy” after America. More recently, in February 2014, al-Burmi also said it is acceptable to behead “Chinese Buddhists.”
> 
> *To all PDF PRC who support Islamist, a big 3rd finger to you.*



You don't understand. In China, we can criticize anything ugly, because it's all Chinese, no foreign trolls, but here on this forum, we have to defend our country from demolition and separation. If people start to criticize Uighur, China haters will bite you, they get evidence from you, that's what you want? I don't see people defend islamist here too much.

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## Lux de Veritas

steelseries779 said:


> You don't understand. In China, we can criticize anything ugly, because it's all Chinese, no foreign trolls, but here on this forum, we have to defend our country from demolition and separation. If people start to criticize Uighur, China haters will bite you, they get evidence from you, that's what you want? I don't see people defend islamist here too much.



I understand... no worries. I am a patriotic Chinese. I am here to moderate PRC voice.

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## Grand Historian

Lux de Veritas said:


> I understand... no worries. I am a patriotic Chinese. I am here to moderate PRC voice.


Hokkien Supremacy,degeneration of Northern Han as barbarians etc is not patriotic whatsoever.

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## bolo

steelseries779 said:


> You don't understand. In China, we can criticize anything ugly, because it's all Chinese, no foreign trolls, but here on this forum, we have to defend our country from demolition and separation. If people start to criticize Uighur, China haters will bite you, they get evidence from you, that's what you want? I don't see people defend islamist here too much.


Lux is a racist, anti China malay monkey troll. His hobbies besides China bashing is writing about penis size,etc.

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## BoQ77

We worry about the Uyghur lives ... 
Sorry for returning you back to China ...
Next time, try to get the passports from Chinese authorities first and apply for Vietnam visa.
We welcome you 

Chinese authorities, please give the passports to Uyghurs for their freedom of travelling ..


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## Lux de Veritas

Turkistan *Islamic* Party claims responsibility for Urumqi terror blast


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## Lux de Veritas

*Islamofascists aim to slaughter a lot a lot of PRC.*

Police seize 1.8 tons of bomb-making material in restive Chinese region | The Japan Times

Police in China’s restive Xinjiang have seized 1.8 tons of bomb-making material and detained five people, authorities said Tuesday, following a string of deadly attacks blamed on militants from the mainly Muslim ethnic Uighur province.

Officers in and around Hotan in southern Xinjiang “destroyed two explosives-making dens and seized 1.8 tons of raw material that the gang planned to use to make explosive devices, along with a large number of partly finished explosive devices,” reported the regional government’s Tianshan website.

In recent days the group began making explosive devices with the alleged goal of “driving into a crowded place, running people over and setting off bombs” in Hotan, it said.

The gang had watched videos promoting terrorism and* religious extremism*, it added, and said the group’s leader had instructed members to acquire materials from Urumqi and elsewhere in China.


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## TaiShang

Lux de Veritas said:


> *Islamofascists aim to slaughter a lot a lot of PRC.*
> 
> Police seize 1.8 tons of bomb-making material in restive Chinese region | The Japan Times
> 
> Police in China’s restive Xinjiang have seized 1.8 tons of bomb-making material and detained five people, authorities said Tuesday, following a string of deadly attacks blamed on militants from the mainly Muslim ethnic Uighur province.
> 
> Officers in and around Hotan in southern Xinjiang “destroyed two explosives-making dens and seized 1.8 tons of raw material that the gang planned to use to make explosive devices, along with a large number of partly finished explosive devices,” reported the regional government’s Tianshan website.
> 
> In recent days the group began making explosive devices with the alleged goal of “driving into a crowded place, running people over and setting off bombs” in Hotan, it said.
> 
> The gang had watched videos promoting terrorism and* religious extremism*, it added, and said the group’s leader had instructed members to acquire materials from Urumqi and elsewhere in China.




Do not become sensational. No one is impressed. Tragedies happen; but people have to go to their own business and live their lives.


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## Mao1949

BEIJING - Nine terrorists were sentenced to death and three others given death with a two-year reprieve among verdicts on 81 people punished for their roles in terrorist activities in the northwestern region of Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.

The official Weibo account of CCTV News reported the sentences handed down on Thursday by courts in Tacheng, Urumqi, Aksu, Kezilesu Kirgiz, Kashgar, and Hotan involving 23 different cases. Defendants were charged with crimes including organizing, leading or participating in terrorist organizations, intentional manslaughter and arson.

The country has launched a one-year nationwide campaign against terrorism after a series of violent and deadly attacks by radicals and religious extremists.

Yang Huanning, executive vice-minister of public security, said the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region would be the main battlefield.

The move came after the May 22 bomb attack that claimed 43 lives and injured 94 residents at a marketplace in Urumqi.

So far this year, police have detained more than 200 suspects in 23 groups and found more than 200 explosive devices in Hotan, Kashgar and Aksu prefectures in southern Xinjiang where terrorism and religious extremism are prevalent.


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## Black Widow

any comment @Zarvan, @Spring Onion


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## Zarvan

Black Widow said:


> any comment @Zarvan, @Spring Onion


 The comment is China will have to give religious freedom to people specially Mulims because Muslims are not good at tolerating ban on religious activities for long time they would react if China wants to continue on path of progress and main tain good ties with Muslim countries they would have to do it other wise even USA would try to use it and spread propaganda in Muslim countries which can bring China lot of trouble so to avoid that they have to have a dilaouge with Muslims living in China


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## Mao1949

Zarvan said:


> The comment is China will have to give religious freedom to people specially Mulims because Muslims are not good at tolerating ban on religious activities for long time they would react if China wants to continue on path of progress and main tain good ties with Muslim countries they would have to do it other wise even USA would try to use it and spread propaganda in Muslim countries which can bring China lot of trouble so to avoid that they have to have a dilaouge with Muslims living in China



This has nothing to do with religious freedom and all about separatism and using terrorism to achieve their goals. Don't ever expect communists to be sympathetic towards these terrorists. You have no idea how ruthless communists can get when threatened. There are no special privileges for muslims in China. Never has been and never will be. Peaceful religions don't go around strapping bombs on their body and blowing themselves up in civilian areas killing innocent people going about their lives.

Terrorism will be crushed regardless of what anyone says or does.

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## Biplab Bijay

Mao1949 said:


> BEIJING - Nine terrorists were sentenced to death and three others given death with a two-year reprieve among verdicts on 81 people punished for their roles in terrorist activities in the northwestern region of Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.
> 
> The official Weibo account of CCTV News reported the sentences handed down on Thursday by courts in Tacheng, Urumqi, Aksu, Kezilesu Kirgiz, Kashgar, and Hotan involving 23 different cases. Defendants were charged with crimes including organizing, leading or participating in terrorist organizations, intentional manslaughter and arson.
> 
> The country has launched a one-year nationwide campaign against terrorism after a series of violent and deadly attacks by radicals and religious extremists.
> 
> Yang Huanning, executive vice-minister of public security, said the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region would be the main battlefield.
> 
> The move came after the May 22 bomb attack that claimed 43 lives and injured 94 residents at a marketplace in Urumqi.
> 
> So far this year, police have detained more than 200 suspects in 23 groups and found more than 200 explosive devices in Hotan, Kashgar and Aksu prefectures in southern Xinjiang where terrorism and religious extremism are prevalent.


Good step. Kill them all and also seize their properties.



Zarvan said:


> The comment is China will have to give religious freedom to people specially Mulims because Muslims are not good at tolerating ban on religious activities for long time they would react if China wants to continue on path of progress and main tain good ties with Muslim countries they would have to do it other wise even USA would try to use it and spread propaganda in Muslim countries which can bring China lot of trouble so to avoid that they have to have a dilaouge with Muslims living in China


Then China will become free from muslim.


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## Zarvan

Mao1949 said:


> This has nothing to do with religious freedom and all about separatism and using terrorism to achieve their goals. Don't ever expect communists to be sympathetic towards these terrorists. You have no idea how ruthless communists can get when threatened. There are no special privileges for muslims in China. Never has been and never will be. Peaceful religions don't go around strapping bombs on their body and blowing themselves up in civilian areas killing innocent people going about their lives.
> 
> Terrorism will be crushed regardless of what anyone says or does.


Sir it started from their and now going for sepratism Sir if thier would have been freedom it wouldn't have reached this stage still China can control by having a dilaouge having crackdown will not work Sir it would only increase anger and reaction


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## Mao1949

Zarvan said:


> Sir it started from their and now going for sepratism Sir if thier would have been freedom it wouldn't have reached this stage still China can control by having a dilaouge having crackdown will not work Sir it would only increase anger and reaction



Dialogue with terrorists? no thanks


----------



## Spring Onion

Black Widow said:


> any comment @Zarvan, @Spring Onion



dont club me with zaravan

Secondly my opinion is if they were involved in bombing and proven guilty in court of law then they deserved to be punished.


----------



## ephone

Only 9??? 

It is such a mistake.



Mao1949 said:


> BEIJING - Nine terrorists were sentenced to death and three others given death with a two-year reprieve among verdicts on 81 people punished for their roles in terrorist activities in the northwestern region of Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.
> 
> The official Weibo account of CCTV News reported the sentences handed down on Thursday by courts in Tacheng, Urumqi, Aksu, Kezilesu Kirgiz, Kashgar, and Hotan involving 23 different cases. Defendants were charged with crimes including organizing, leading or participating in terrorist organizations, intentional manslaughter and arson.
> 
> The country has launched a one-year nationwide campaign against terrorism after a series of violent and deadly attacks by radicals and religious extremists.
> 
> Yang Huanning, executive vice-minister of public security, said the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region would be the main battlefield.
> 
> The move came after the May 22 bomb attack that claimed 43 lives and injured 94 residents at a marketplace in Urumqi.
> 
> So far this year, police have detained more than 200 suspects in 23 groups and found more than 200 explosive devices in Hotan, Kashgar and Aksu prefectures in southern Xinjiang where terrorism and religious extremism are prevalent.


----------



## cirr

UPDATED: June 6, 2014 NO. 24 JUNE 12, 2014

*Speeding to Xinjiang*

*The region gets ready to reap the benefits from its new rail connection*
By Li Fangfang







READY: Workers from the Urumqi Railway Administration wait for a CRH2-061C high-speed train ready to pull out from Urumqi Electric Multiple Unit Deport at 9:50 a.m. on June 3 (LI FANGFANG)

Nan Baojun, 43, a veteran railway steward with 20 years' experience, was excited when she spoke to _Beijing Review_ on a test high-speed train running from Urumqi to Shanshan in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. "Xinjiang finally has its high-speed railway," she exclaimed with glee.

At 9:50 a.m. on June 3, a CRH2-061C high-speed train began its 283-km journey from Urumqi to Shanshan to test the Xinjiang section of the second double-track line of the Lanzhou-Xinjiang Railway.

The railway, which was first built in 1952-62, is the only one that connects Xinjiang with other parts of China. The new line starts in Lanzhou, capital of Gansu Province, and takes a slightly different route, winding through the neighboring Qinghai Province before re-entering Gansu and joining the old route that heads northwest toward Xinjiang.

*The 1,776-km new line crosses a vast expanse of the Gobi Desert and other areas with harsh natural conditions including extreme temperatures and wind speeds, both of which needed technical innovations to overcome.*

Construction of the Xinjiang stretch of the railroad, which runs for 710 km in total, began in March 2010. After the last section between Gansu and Qinghai finishes its test running in September, the new line will start trial operation. It will be finally put into use at the end of 2014. With the new railway, travel time between Lanzhou and Urumqi will be cut from the current 21 hours to 8 hours or less.

Xinjiang's local residents have longed for the opening of the high-speed railway for a long time.





TRAINING: Nan Baojun (right) coaches a steward on the test high-speed train on June 3 (CHEN BOYUAN)

"When I took a taxi to go to work, the driver asked me when Xinjiang would have its own high-speed railway," said Nan, who will be in charge of all the attendants on the route after it is put into use. "When I went to get a haircut, the hairdresser also asked me if it was true that Xinjiang was building a high-speed railroad."

The trial run on June 3 included tests on dynamic response, rails, communications and aerodynamics, and all the results were within safety limits, said Fu Lianzhu, chief engineer of the line's trial run project.





TOP SPEED: The speed of the test high-speed train reaches 275 km per hour, 10 percent faster than the designed one, to make extra sure that everything is operating as expected (ZHAO GE)

This section is designed for an average speed of 250 km per hour when it begins operations. During the test, the speed used was 10 percent faster, 275 km per hour, to make extra sure that everything is operating as expected.

"We had to undertake nine days of testing before we started the trial run," Fu said.

According to Fu, the train began its trial run at a speed of 160 km per hour, regularly increasing its speed by 20-km increments. After the speed exceeded 200 km per hour, the increases were lowered 10 km per hour until it reached 275 km per hour.





VETERAN: Adi Tuerdi, an Uygur driver, operates the test high-speed train on June 3 (ZHAO GE)

"On account of the high speeds, we drivers have to take turns [to get a chance to experience it]," said Adi Tuerdi, 34, an Uygur train driver. Besides Tuerdi, there is also one Kazak and 10 Han ethnic drivers on the trial high-speed train. They were all selected from train drivers working in Xinjiang.

Tuerdi experienced tough tests as a candidate over the past several months. The basic criterion is that a driver has healthy physical and mental condition and good knowledge of China's railways. When he passed his interview in Beijing, Tuerdi was given the opportunity to learn the theoretical knowledge needed for high-speed trains and receive practical training.

Tuerdi received his driving classes in Baoji, northwest China's Shaanxi Province, and Southwest Jiaotong University in Chengdu, Sichuan Province, some 3,000 km far away from Urumqi.

He practiced his skills at the Wuhan multiple unit train depot in central China's Hubei Province, one of the four major depots in China. The other three are in Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou in south China's Guangdong Province.

However, the highest priority is a train driver's recorded safe-driving distance. They cannot have violations within at least 100,000 km of one another. Tuerdi's safe-driving distance is 573,400 km, which he has worked up since his career as a train driver started in 2003.

"I'm proud to be the first Uygur driver of the high-speed trains in Xinjiang. It's also a pride for my family, and even for all Uygurs," Tuerdi said.





GETTING CLOSER: A Technician monitors the speed of the train on June 3 (LI FANGFANG)

*Not that far*

When Tuerdi worked for the Urumqi-Hami section of the old route of the Lanzhou-Xinjiang Railway, it took more than six hours to travel the roughly 600 km of the route.

But when the high-speed railway goes into operation, it will be possible to traverse it in as little as two and a half hours. "It'd be possible to make a day trip to and from Urumqi to Hami, a city in south Xinjiang," Tuerdi said.

For people in Xinjiang, online shopping is not as convenient as it is in the rest of China because of the long wait for packages and higher delivery fees.

For those using SunFeng Express, a premium delivery company in China known for its efficiency, delivering a package from Beijing to Urumqi takes a week at least and costs 24 yuan ($3.84) per kg. However, customers in other provinces, with the exception of those in southwest China's Tibet Autonomous Region and in Qinghai, their purchases can arrive in two days and the delivery fees can be so low that some online vendors are even willing to cover them for their customers. What's worse, some online business owners rejected orders from Xinjiang to avoid the hassles of the inconvenient transportation arrangements.

"When we were trained in Wuhan, enjoying shopping without delivery costs was so exciting," Nan said. She looks forward to high-speed cargo trains that can improve the situation.

The high-speed railway will make a huge difference. The old route of the Lanzhou-Xinjiang Railway will be used exclusively for cargo trains while the high-speed railroad will be for passenger trains, according to Liu Xinle, a railway official in Xinjiang.

"It means that the current transportation capability for both cargo and passengers will be doubled," Liu said.



INNOVATIONS: La Youyu (center), Chairman of Lanzhou-Xinjiang Railway Xinjiang Co., explains the technological challenges of building the first high-speed railway in Xinjiang on June 3 (LI FANGFANG)

*Challenges conquered*

Xinjiang is the largest base of wind power in China. The windiness of the region was a major factor in the decision to build so many wind farms there, but sometimes the wind is responsible for more than just generating electricity and can cause serious damage and be a potential threat to trains.

The high-speed railway passes four particularly notorious windy areas, where gusts of wind can reach 60 meters per second, equivalent to the wind speed in a category 4 hurricane. Wind exceeding 32 meters per second are considered hurricanes.

In the four areas with extreme wind that the railway passes, there are 208 days a year where winds exceed 20 meters per second.

A 462-km wind shield has been built to prevent damage, covering 65 percent of the total length of the Xinjiang section of the high-speed railroad, the largest wind protection structure in China's high-speed railway construction, according to La Youyu, Chairman of Lanzhou-Xinjiang Railway Xinjiang Co.

"Constructing a high-speed railroad in such a harsh natural environment is a real challenge," said La, a Tibetan with a rich experience in railway construction. He participated in building the Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway and the Qinghai-Tibet railway, the world's highest and longest high plateau railroad, as vice commander in chief.

"Without the protection wall, trains would have to stop running when wind speeds reach 30 meters per second. But now, they don't have to do that till it exceeds 40 meters per second," La said.

Xinjiang is also renowned for the large temperature differences between day and night, which can cause concrete to crack. "We worked hard to choose the best formula for the concrete possible," La explained.

The high-speed railway's environmentally friendly construction is another highlight, especially near the Dabancheng wetland, a national nature reserve in Urumqi.

During the construction, clear rules forbidding littering and random driving were made. Workers built a road exclusively for construction use. After the construction work was finished, the road is used for follow-up railway maintenance and given to the local people for their daily use.

*

WELCOME ABOARD: Zulhumar Tursun (left), 22, serves passengers on the test high-speed train on June 3 (LI FANGFANG)

Economic solution
*
Xinjiang is a remote region, and more than half of its population is made up of ethnic minorities who follow Islam. Violence in the name of "jihad" has been increasing since 2009 and represents the biggest threat to the region.

Chinese President Xi Jinping urged strengthened precautions and international anti-terrorism cooperation, stressing long-term stability as the main goal for the region at the second central work conference on Xinjiang on May 29.

The meeting was held in the wake of a series of bloody terrorist attacks in the region, including one at an open air market in Urumqi, which left 39 people dead and 94 injured on May 22. It was the second terrorist attack in Urumqi in less than a month. On April 30, an explosion at the Urumqi Railway Station killed three people, including the two attackers, and injured 79 others.

"Terrorism can't break the unity of the Xinjiang people or stop the region's development," said Tuerdi. "We are very strong."

Echoing Tuerdi's sentiment, Zulhumar Tursun, 22, an Uygur attendant on the test train, is also confident in Xinjiang's future. "Xinjiang is not what you heard in rumors," she said.

Tursun is proud to be one of the first nine candidates chosen from about 5,000 women who all wanted to work for the first high-speed train in her hometown.

Affected by the terrorist attacks, direct investment in Xinjiang and tourism revenues reduced 50 percent and 40 percent respectively in May, comparing with the same period last year, according Lai Xin, a senior official with the region's Development and Reform Commission.

But Li Wenqing, a local tourism official, pins his hopes on the high-speed railway to revive the industry.

"The high-speed railway will cut the costs and time needed to visit Xinjiang," Li said.

Xinjiang received 52 million domestic tourists and 1.1 million foreign tourists in 2013. Li is still optimistic about reaching the target of receiving 57 million tourists this year.

"The tourism industry will become Xinjiang's most important industry, accounting for 10 percent of its GDP by 2015," Li said.

"With its beautiful natural scenery and cultural sites, we need a developed transportation net. If tourists can travel here within three days rather than seven days, that would be great" Nan said. "As with the high-speed railway in use, more people can come to know Xinjiang and Xinjiang locals can better know the outside world."

The high-speed railway will also greatly improve Xinjiang's transport capabilities to Central Asian and European countries and strengthen its role of being the transportation hub along the Silk Road Economic Belt, said Erkin Tuniyaz, Vice Chairman of the Xinjiang Regional Government.

In a speech in Kazakhstan last September, President Xi proposed the construction of a "Silk Road Economic Belt" as a way of boosting political and economic ties between China and neighboring countries, as well as accelerating the development of China's western regions.

Email us at: lifangfang@bjreview.com





Speeding to Xinjiang -- Beijing Review

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## Kompromat

pics not working


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## cirr

Aeronaut said:


> pics not working



They all look fine to me。


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## Edison Chen

Pictures down.


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## Edevelop

I would one day like to see that connected to us through Karakoram

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## Pangu

Awesome! The spider web grows strong, so will the economy of the region.

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## cirr

xudeen said:


> Awesome! The spider web grows strong, so will the economy of the region.



Construction of *Korla-Golmud Railway* scheduled for November 2014：

新疆库尔勒至格尔木铁路拟11月开建-新闻频道-和讯网












Length: 1223km
Investment: 33.5 billion yuan
Duration: 5 years


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## dlclong



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## jkroo

A really huge railway system. More rail connection will come out and will bring more conveniences for economy and people.

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## qwerrty

*Updated: 2014-06-16 13:31*
*(chinadaily.com.cn)*

More than 60 suspects linked to terrorism and religion extremism have been captured in Xinjiang since the northwestern China's autonomous region launched an extensive campaign to stop terrorists last month.
The suspects belonged to nine terrorist-related gangs plus one religious extremist group. All the 10 groups were busted by police thanks to assistance from local residents.

Data showed, since May 23, the public security agencies in Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region have received more than 300 tips leading to the capture of more than 60 suspects accused of making more than 160 blast devices.

Police officers also seized more than 40 kilograms of explosive materials, 2 sites for illegally recording videos and a large number of flags instigating religious extremism.

*On Sunday, three knife-wielding men hacked at citizens before they were seized by civilians and policemen in Hotan. The men rushed into a chess and card room on Yingbin Road at around 5:45 pm. The chess players fought back and pressed an alarm bell. 

The armed patrol police arrived on the scene 1 minute and 20 second later. With the assistance of citizens, the police subdued three terrorists, leaving two dead and placing one under arrest. Four citizens were hurt during the fight, but their injuries were not life threatening.

In an earlier case in Pishan, three suspected terrorists were stopped and turned in by six villagers when they pretended to have been chasing lost camels. About 12 explosive devices and one machete were found on them. With the assistance of local residents, the police discovered 12 more explosive devices from the same group.*

China has launched a one-year nationwide campaign against terrorism since last month with Xinjiang as the focus after a series of violent and deadly attacks by terrorists and religious extremists.

Police in Xinjiang have arrested or tried dozens of suspects in recent weeks for spreading extremist propaganda, harboring banned weapons and other terrorist-related crimes.

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## itaskol

and

13 executed over terror attacks, violent crimes in Xinjiang - Xinhua | English.news.cn

English.news.cn 2014-06-16 21:37:06


URUMQI, June 16 (Xinhua) -- Thirteen people were executed on Monday over terrorist attacks and violent crimes in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

They were involved in seven cases, according to local courts.

Also Monday, three other people were sentenced to death by the Urumqi Intermediate People's Court over a terror attack near Beijing's Tian'anmen Square in October 2013.

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## Nan Yang

The local population and religious leaders must step up to take the initiative.

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## Genesis

I am outraged, why is terror not in quotes?!?!?!?!?!

Are you saying this is an actual terror arrest, come on man, get your head out of your ***, no way China has terrorists, they all like to go vacation in America.

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## cnleio

2014.06.15 Three Uyghur terrorists plan to chop down innocents in a chess & card room of HeTian city, XinJiang. But terrorists were beat by brave citizens, after 1 minute China Armed Police arrived there'r two terrorists died and one serious injury.

A very simple answer ... 
They (3x terrists) die ? Or we (innocent citizens) die ?

CCTV video:








An axe in the hand








Two Axes




F@CK

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## cnleio

Outside the chess & card room, Three terrorists run to the street then local Police and China armed police arrived.

Local citizens and police fight with Three terrorists.

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## pigtaker

good, in China the casualty of terroists usually is bigger than civilians.

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## PlanetWarrior

Wtf is going on there ??


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## xesy

That was brutal. But why are some pics censored? Are there any civ casualities?


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## aliaselin

It seems the terrorists do not know the power of Chairman Mao's People's war theory

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## qwerrty

three men at bottom right look uyhgur. im pretty sure there are more, but images are too poor. those psychos just whacking everyone in there.. it's ridiculous seeing some turdistani citizens here defending them..

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## 55100864

uyhgur terrorists beaten to death by normal brave uyhgur citizens. good!

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## CHiahah

cnleio said:


> 2014.06.15 Three Uyghur terrorists plan to chop down innocents in a chess & card room of HeTian city, XinJiang. But terrorists were beat by brave citizens, after 1 minute China Armed Police arrived there'r two terrorists died and one serious injury.
> 
> A very simple answer ...
> They (3x terrists) die ? Or we (innocent citizens) die ?
> 
> CCTV video:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An axe in the hand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two Axes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> F@CK


看楼主下面的留言，吃货无疑，今天这新闻大快人心啊！！！

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## cnleio

xesy said:


> That was brutal. But why are some pics censored? Are there any civ casualities?


18+ Bloody violence picture, the axe cut to the innocent's neck.
A man and a woman firstly cut by 2x terriosts in that pics r casualties.

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## DT1010

beating someone is a crime not a terrorist action

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## CHiahah

DT1010 said:


> beating someone is a crime not a terrorist action


terrorist attack is a crime

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## TaiShang

Soon there will be virgin deficit in Heaven. Prices will increase.

Good Chinese Armed Forces gave them their due. Kudos to the responsible citizens, as well. 

Nice state-society cooperation.

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## Sasquatch

cnleio said:


> Outside the chess & card room, Three terrorists run to the street then local Police and China armed police arrived.
> 
> Local citizens and police fight with Three terrorists.



Good Riddance glad no civilian died.

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## Targon

Sorry but thats sounds like bullsh.t to me, its looks like Chinese media tries to serve every violence involves Uyghurs as an act of terrorism to further alienate Chinese people againts them.

From every perspective thats looks like an ordinary personal dispute that ends up violently.

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## pigtaker

Targon said:


> Sorry but thats sounds like bullsh.t to me, its looks like Chinese media tries to serve every violence involves Uyghurs as an act of terrorism to further alienate Chinese people againts them.
> 
> From every perspective thats looks like ordinary personal dispute that ends up violently.


are you a retard? maybe that is a typical behavior of turks in your country, but in China it means death without mercy. if you don't believe, send more of your brothers to test our iron hand.

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## Sasquatch

Targon said:


> Sorry but thats sounds like bullsh.t to me, its looks like Chinese media tries to serve every violence involves Uyghurs as an act of terrorism to further alienate Chinese people againts them.
> 
> From every perspective thats looks like ordinary personal dispute that ends up violently.



Not to us they already alienated themselves with multiple bombings and stabbings after the Train attack ordinary Chinese got a good look at it, there's already bad blood between Uighurs against Han, Hui, and Kazakh in Xinjiang.
Now it's a shoot first policy.

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## usernameless

Mindset of most Chinese members here; an Uyghur releases a fart in a train, boom, a new terrorist.
as Targon said, media could be using such material to manipulate and give their own flavor to it. What can you gonna say and do against ruthless CCP? you guys take your own media, which serves the authoritarian CCP, way too serious, i see too little open-minded Chinese here.

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## Mao1949

usernameless said:


> Mindset of most Chinese members here; an Uyghur releases a fart in a train, boom, a new terrorist.
> as Targon said, media could be using such material to manipulate and give their own flavor to it. What can you gonna say and do against ruthless CCP? you guys take your own media, which serves the authoritarian CCP, way too serious, i see too little open-minded Chinese here.



Yet another Turk supporting terrorists. What's up with Turks supporting Islamic terrorists?

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## Sasquatch

usernameless said:


> Mindset of most Chinese members here; an Uyghur releases a fart in a train, boom, a new terrorist.
> as Targon said, media could be using such material to manipulate and give their own flavor to it. What can you gonna say and do against ruthless CCP? you guys take your own media, which serves the authoritarian CCP, way too serious, i see too little open-minded Chinese here.





usernameless said:


> yet another Chinese pointing fingers at others and refusing to criticize his own government. are you afraid of criticizing your own govt/country's policies here? if you're big, you should be able to take some criticism too. Go to Turkish section, you'll see that we openly criticize our govt. i want to see you guys do the same instead of immediately bringing up off-topic related matters about Turkey or whatever.



With all due respect lets stay on topic now this isn't about the CPC if you want you can open a thread on it. Aside from that many Chinese do criticize the CPC we have done it all the time here.

However that doesn't excuse Uighurs from attacking civilians, police stations, trying to hijacking planes, or setting bombs on markets. This isn't a conspiracy by the media now we have seen photos of dead victims of terrorism in Xinjiang or Kumning posted by individual civilians unless they are part of it. Simple solution is Uighur integrating into Chinese Society which the Government is paying for. With the demographs in Xinjiang Han majority it's inevitable it happens.

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## Targon

Hu Songshan said:


> Not to us they already alienated themselves with multiple bombings and stabbings after the Train attack ordinary Chinese got a good look at it, there's already bad blood between Uighurs against Han, Hui, and Kazakh in Xinjiang.
> Now it's a shoot first policy.



I'm ignoring rest of retarded comments here and answering you, I'm solely commenting on this incident, I understand the behaviour of some Chinese as we had the same process with Kurds.

-Location ? Khotan, which according to wiki is a Uyghur majority city.
-Place ? a game place, has absolutely nothing with government.
-Attackers ? 3 guys with cutting weapons.

Now is there any evidence this was a terror attack ? if not what makes this a terror attack ? why Chinese media serves this as Uyghur Terrorism ? if there issn't any evidence this from the outlook definetly looks like an ordinary street dispute.

I also understand why Media would do this as our Media was same about Kurds.

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## usernameless

Targon said:


> I'm ignoring rest of retarded comments here and answering you, I'm solely commenting on this incident, I understand the behaviour of some Chinese as we had the same process with Kurds.
> 
> -Location ? Khotan, which according to wiki is a Uyghur majority city.
> -Place ? a game place, has absolutely nothing with government.
> -Attackers ? 3 guys with cutting weapons.
> 
> Now is there any evidence this was a terror attack ? if not what makes this a terror attack ? why Chinese media serves this as Uyghur Terrorism ? if there issn't any evidence this from the outlook definetly looks like an ordinary street dispute.


On top of that, Uyghurs attacking most probably Uyghurs. If i was a desperate Uyghur i would attack Han, not my fellow people. This means that this case leans more towards personal problems, but govt catches every chance to paint Uyghurs black, probably in the hope to alienate the weak-minded Uyghurs from their own people and religion. smart policy, if this is true.

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## pigtaker

usernameless said:


> ok ok, i get it angry sounding dude, criticizing your own govt is a taboo in China  good to know when i visit China in the future


why should I criticize our government just because it rightfully handled terrorists? we have our way to rule the country. If you don't like it, we don't care.


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## Sasquatch

Targon said:


> I'm ignoring rest of retarded comments here and answering you, I'm solely commenting on this incident, I understand the behaviour of some Chinese as we had the same process with Kurds.
> 
> -Location ? Khotan, which according to wiki is a Uyghur majority city.
> -Place ? a game place, has absolutely nothing with government.
> -Attackers ? 3 guys with cutting weapons.
> 
> Now is there any evidence this was a terror attack ? if not what makes this a terror attack ? why Chinese media serves this as Uyghur Terrorism ? if there issn't any evidence this from the outlook definetly looks like an ordinary street dispute.
> 
> I also understand why Media would do this as our Media was same about Kurds.



Attacking civilians or government with violence ? Definition of terrorism is to use violence to intimidate civilians or the government.
Kunming attacks Police station attacks ?
Kunming railway station attack | South China Morning Post
Attack on a police station in Xinjiang

There are many more I could put up the Ultimate goal of is an independent Islamist Xinjiang for some Uighurs, ETIM, many lone wolves will simply kill Han or other Uighur who don't follow their cause. Many already kill others for not follow their cause. There is bad blood between Han and Uighur and Uighur and other Uighurs for working with Han Chinese.

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## usernameless

pigtaker said:


> why should I criticize our government just because it rightfully handled terrorists? we have our way to rule the country. If you don't like it, we don't care.


How do you know they handle every case rightfully? is there any opposition in China that put question marks on CCP's actions? Can someone bring CCP's men to the court and win? etc. you just naively believe, at least you seem like that. i only care about Uyghurs, whatever CCP does to non-Uyghurs, i dont care.

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## Targon

Hu Songshan said:


> Attacking civilians or government with violence ? Definition of terrorism is to use violence to intimidate civilians or the government.
> Kunming attacks Police station attacks ?
> Kunming railway station attack | South China Morning Post
> Attack on a police station in Xinjiang
> 
> There are many more I could put up the Ultimate goal of is an independent Islamist Xinjiang for some Uighurs, ETIM, many lone wolves will simply kill Han or other Uighur who don't follow their cause.



I told you I'm solely commenting to that issue, other examples has nothing with it.. Not every negative thing involves Uyghurs is an act of terrorism and treachery againts Chinese governments, i'm trying to point out Chinese media is manipulating things just like our media used to do about Kurds.

Your process with Uyghurs is absolutely same as our process with Kurds, the end of this way is not good for any side.

Also you're the mod, you better do something about your little friend, as I didn't insulted anybody here.

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## pigtaker

usernameless said:


> How do you know they handle every case rightfully? is there any opposition in China that put question marks on CCP's actions? Can someone bring CCP's men to the court and win? etc. you just naively believe, at least you seem like that. i only care about Uyghurs, whatever CCP does to non-Uyghurs, i dont care.


Did anybody question US's 911? you are so naive.

You care about your brothers, that is good. you can either send your army here to protect them or evacuate them to your country, suit yourself.

I forget to mention we did criticize our government, for it give too much special treatment to your Uyghur brothers instead of enjoying equal rights like us.


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## Sasquatch

Targon said:


> I told you I'm solely commenting to that issue, other examples has nothing with it.. Not every negative thing involves Uyghurs is an act of terrorism and treachery againts Chinese governments, i'm trying to point out Chinese media is manipulating things just like our media used to do about Kurds.
> 
> Your process with Uyghurs is absolutely same as our process with Kurds.
> 
> Also you're the mod, you better do something about your little friend, as I didn't insulted anybody here.



But I've given you the answer ? There has only been 1 incident of a Uighur v Uighur street dispute in which one stabbed another over a nutcake the rest were attacks. Attacking civilians doesn't matter if it's Han, Hui, Kazakh or even Uighur it's still terrorism, most attacks are reported by ordinary civilians not the media.

Quite an assumption not my friend now, I've given infractions out.



usernameless said:


> i only care about Uyghurs, whatever CCP does to non-Uyghurs, i dont care.



Thank for your honesty

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## Targon

Hu Songshan said:


> But I've given you the answer ? There has only been 1 incident of a Uighur v Uighur street dispute in which one stabbed another the rest were attacks. Attacking civilians doesn't matter if it's Han, Hui, Kazakh or even Uighur it's still terrorism, most attacks are reported by ordinary civilians not the media.
> 
> Quite an assumption not my friend now, I've given infractions out.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank for your honesty



Its terrorism if you automatically assume attackers were terrorists, which I think we don't know in this incident, not every dispute involves violence is terrorism, in this case terrorism would be a regular part of our daily lives.

Its not matters who reports it, what matters it how media serves it.

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## Sasquatch

Targon said:


> Its terrorism if you automatically assume attackers were terrorists, which I think we don't know in this incident, not every dispute involves violence is terrorism, in this case terrorism would be a regular part of our daily lives.
> 
> Its not matters who reports it, what matters it how media serves it.



What do you mean we ? You don't but most Chinese have multiple sources the the only Uighur v Uighur street dispute was reported as such by the media and social sites like webio. Xinjiang has had many bombings, stabbings on civilians( Doesn't matter nationality), attacks on police stations, and even an attempted hijacking of a plane. It's different from other regions, I understand your kinship toward the Uighurs but that doesn't excuse the terrorism now.

You see it one way we see it another not gonna change any time now.


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## Targon

Hu Songshan said:


> What do you mean we ? You don't but most Chinese have multiple sources the the only Uighur v Uighur street dispute was reported as such by the media and social sites like webio. Xinjiang has had many bombings, stabbings on civilians( Doesn't matter nationality), attacks on police stations, and even an attempted hijacking of a plane. It's different from other regions, I understand your kinship toward the Uighurs but that doesn't excuse the terrorism now.



Where is the backstory of this incident ? where does it say it wasn't just a street dispute but a terrorist act ? I pointed out info we have and analyzed why it does not looks like a terrorist act, you're free to bring further evidence.

It does have nothing with my kinship towards Uyghurs, I'm trying to be objective in everything, I don't support seperatist actions of Uyghurs as well, getting no discrimination, getting cultural, religious and language rights is more then enough insisting on an independent state is pointless and harms everybody, as I said we are having the same thing with Kurds.

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## Sasquatch

Targon said:


> Where is the backstory of this incident ? where does it say it wasn't just a street dispute but a terrorist act ? I pointed out info we have and analyzed why it does not looks like a terrorist act, you're free to bring further evidence.
> 
> It does have nothing with my kinship towards Uyghurs, I'm trying to be objective in everything, I don't support seperatist actions of Uyghurs as well, getting no discrimination, getting cultural, religious and language rights is more then enough insisting on an independent state is pointless and harms everybody, as I said we are having the same thing with Kurds.



Two Uighur carrying axes to a card room full of Han and Uighur civilians unless you bring axes to a street dispute now ? (Only street dispute was over a nutcake) And randomly start attacking just like Kunming attacks until the heavily armed police arrive. This has the same markings as the Kunming train attack. You can see the photos for yourself, you don't bring the heavily armed police to a street dispute. 

I agree with with you , they received benefits as the other minorities in China have which majority Han don't have.

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## Targon

Hu Songshan said:


> Two Uighur carrying axes to a card room full of Han and Uighur civilians unless you bring axes to a street dispute now ? (Only street dispute was over a nutcake) And randomly start attacking just like Kunming attacks until the heavily armed police arrive. This has the same markings as the Kunming train attack. You can see the photos for yourself, you don't bring the heavily armed police to a street dispute.
> 
> I agree with with you , they received benefits as the other minorities in China have which majority Han don't have.



There are disputes where people even use guns, it does not proves anything.

Kunming has taken place in a Chinese majority area, in a crowded place where they attacked security guards and police as well, one can easily see the difference, all I'm saying there is no clear indication that this was an intentional terrorist action, it can be a manipulation as well.

Kunming's wiki page mentions police suppressing demonstrations againts closure of a mosque and arresting of an Imam where they killed 15 people, if thats true I don't see how they're in better situation then rest of minorities, if government killed 15 people in demonstrations people would go bersek here.

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## Edison Chen



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## Sasquatch

Targon said:


> There are disputes where people even use guns, it does not proves anything.
> 
> Kunming has taken place in a Chinese majority area, in a crowded place where they attacked security guards and police as well, one can easily see the difference, all I'm saying there is no clear indication that this was an intentional terrorist action, it can be a manipulation as well.
> 
> Kunming's wiki page mentions police suppressing demonstrations againts closure of a mosque and arresting of an Imam where they killed 15 people, if thats true I don't see how they're in better situation then rest of minorities, if government killed 15 people in demonstrations people would go bersek here.



Guns are restricted in China, Uighur's are allowed to carry knives due to cultural reasons since Kunming it's been cut back. Many Uighur terrorist resort to knives or axe attacks, lone terrorist have done this in the past on civilian area's The point is we aren't going to change each other views, you don't agree this is a terror attack it's fine we do.
Thankfully no one civilian died in this attack and the attackers were killed good riddance. 

Actually you got from Radio Free Asia on Kunming which is notorious for being an apologist to terrorism that event happen last July not during Kunming, it was when security forces where hunting Uighur Gangs which failed a previous attack.

Similar event happened when they killed a Vietnamese Border Guard.
7 killed in shooting on China-Vietnam border

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## StarCraft_ZT

Very good news. Terrorists will find nowhere to hide. 过街老鼠人人喊打.

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## TaiShang

Targon said:


> Sorry but thats sounds like bullsh.t to me, its looks like Chinese media tries to serve every violence involves Uyghurs as an act of terrorism to further alienate Chinese people againts them.



Anyways, they have been eliminated and now enjoying 70 virgins free of charge. Fopr eternity. We did your kind a favor.



usernameless said:


> as Targon said, media could be using such material to manipulate and give their own flavor to it. What can you gonna say and do against ruthless CCP? you guys take your own media, which serves the authoritarian CCP, way too serious, i see too little open-minded Chinese here.



We find CCP very silk-gloved. Hope it will get a bit more ruthless. I guess, if disruption to peace continues, that will happen and more of your kind will be given free pass to eternal blessing. By the way, enjoy the time with your new ISIS brothers. Now you are neighbors and they have their own emirate.



usernameless said:


> On top of that, Uyghurs attacking most probably Uyghurs. If i was a desperate Uyghur i would attack Han, not my fellow people. This means that this case leans more towards personal problems, but govt catches every chance to paint Uyghurs black, probably in the hope to alienate the weak-minded Uyghurs from their own people and religion. smart policy, if this is true.



They are terrorists, that's it. It is not the first time that same group kill each other for a greater cause. In Syria Arabs are killing Arabs. In Egypt, Iraq etc. Because of sectarianism. There are certain things that create stronger affinities than simple blood-kinship.

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## cnleio

They die? Or we die? I believe Chinese citizens gave a satisfying answer, next time more ppl will choose to fight with terrorist not run away like last KunMing train station attack.

There'r only few terrorists on the street, but Chinese men & women r many times more than them.

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## rott

TaiShang said:


> Soon there will be virgin deficit in Heaven. Prices will increase.
> 
> Good Chinese Armed Forces gave them their due. Kudos to the responsible citizens, as well.
> 
> Nice state-society cooperation.


LOL.... that was funny.



DT1010 said:


> beating someone is a crime not a terrorist action


Either you're quite stupid or very stupid. You choose.

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## Chinese-Dragon

usernameless said:


> i only care about Uyghurs, whatever CCP does to non-Uyghurs, i dont care.



I like your honesty.

Unlike you, I care about innocent people dying, regardless of whether they are Han or Uyghur.

Whereas you "only care" about the Uyghur, and your fellow Turkish members here like atawolf openly support their extremists committing terrorist attacks against innocent people.

Maybe you guys should stick to supporting terrorists in Syria and Iraq instead.

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## rott

Targon said:


> I'm ignoring rest of retarded comments here and answering you, I'm solely commenting on this incident, I understand the behaviour of some Chinese as we had the same process with Kurds.
> 
> -Location ? Khotan, which according to wiki is a Uyghur majority city.
> -Place ? a game place, has absolutely nothing with government.
> -Attackers ? 3 guys with cutting weapons.
> 
> Now is there any evidence this was a terror attack ? if not what makes this a terror attack ? why Chinese media serves this as Uyghur Terrorism ? if there issn't any evidence this from the outlook definetly looks like an ordinary street dispute.
> 
> I also understand why Media would do this as our Media was same about Kurds.



It's simple, they had themselves branded as TERRORIST courtesy to the bombings and driving into crowded places and not forgetting the chopping of people with their well defined machete. Even if you support them more than once too often, you, yourself, will be branded as a terrorist supporter. 
Get the drift? It's just human nature. You do things more than once, you are most likely to get the award.

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## areal

i bet those terrorists were trained in turkey as usual.
every time, there happens a terror attack in xinjiang, turks can report so-called suppressing more quick than people on site,
which gives no explanations but
1, terrorists trained in turkey, and
2, terror attacking is remote controlled by turks in all ways.

china should put turkey into the list of states who actively support terrorists.


Targon said:


> Sorry but thats sounds like bullsh.t to me, its looks like Chinese media tries to serve every violence involves Uyghurs as an act of terrorism to further alienate Chinese people againts them.
> 
> From every perspective thats looks like an ordinary personal dispute that ends up violently.

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## rott

I don't carry an axe to a game of Majong. lol.... Nor strap myself with explosives just incase I lose a hand. hehe..... funny....

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## cirr

The CCP is damn good at launching vigorous mass movements。

No hidings for the terrorists。

Way to go。

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## l'ingénieur

If they really were terrorist then good job.

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## usernameless

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I like your honesty.
> 
> Unlike you, I care about innocent people dying, regardless of whether they are Han or Uyghur.
> 
> Whereas you "only care" about the Uyghur, and your fellow Turkish members here like atawolf openly support their extremists committing terrorist attacks against innocent people.
> 
> Maybe you guys should stick to supporting terrorists in Syria and Iraq instead.


Sure i care if Uyghurs kill innocent Han people or any innocent Chinese citizen dies, but i dont care what policies CCP does to non-Uyghurs, simply because most/all Chinese seem to blindly defend every policy of CCP, seem to be happy with them and i bet Chinese dont mind them as long as they give wealth to the state while they suppress any anti-ccp voice (lets be honest there). I can clearly feel that most Chinese dont (dare to) question CCP's policies at all. that's my gripe with many of the Chinese here, hence i dont care anymore what CCP does to non-Uyghurs. 
Perhaps China also should stick to supporting rebels in neighbouring countries like Burma and India, who knows where else.



areal said:


> i bet those terrorists were trained in turkey as usual.
> every time, there happens a terror attack in xinjiang, turks can report so-called suppressing more quick than people on site,
> which gives no explanations but
> 1, terrorists trained in turkey, and
> 2, terror attacking is remote controlled by turks in all ways.
> 
> china should put turkey into the list of states who actively support terrorists.


Oh yes, those guys with the axe or blades were trained on how to handle such melee weapons specially in Turkey. You went full retard there, seriously, yet am not so surprised.

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## Chinese-Dragon

usernameless said:


> Sure i care if Uyghurs kill innocent Han people or any innocent Chinese citizen dies, but i dont care what policies CCP does to non-Uyghurs, simply because most/all Chinese seem to blindly defend every policy of CCP, seem to be happy with them and i bet Chinese dont mind them as long as they give wealth to the state while they suppress any anti-ccp voice (lets be honest there). I can clearly feel that most Chinese dont (dare to) question CCP's policies at all. that's my gripe with many of the Chinese here, hence i dont care anymore what CCP does to non-Uyghurs.
> Perhaps China also should stick to supporting rebels in neighbouring countries like Burma and India, who knows where else.
> 
> 
> Oh yes, those guys with the axe or blades were trained on how to handle such melee weapons specially in Turkey. You went full retard there, seriously, yet am not so surprised.



Are you kidding? The CCP is bashed more here than anything else. Several Chinese members here do nothing else but that.

And one of the reasons, is because they think the CCP is too soft against these terrorists!

Personally, I believe government policy has failed in Xinjiang. Any terrorists and terrorist sympathizers deserve zero mercy.

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## usernameless

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Are you kidding? The CCP is bashed more here than anything else. Several Chinese members here do nothing else but that.
> 
> And one of the reasons, is because they think the CCP is too soft against these terrorists!
> 
> Personally, I believe government policy has failed in Xinjiang. Any terrorists and terrorist sympathizers deserve zero mercy.


Oh cmon, criticizing because ccp is 'too soft'. Who are you kidding? This is not criticizing the govt at all, it's actually in favor for the govt to do so. I really shouldnt be explaining this, but a regime like CCP gives you the twist it wants through media and state control policies, sure this happens in other countries too, but can you in China criticize or question CCP's policies? Can you make anti-CCP noise without any consequences? Can you openly question its Uyghur or another minority policies and say they are wrong? Many Chinese like to bring up another country's internal matters and mock about it, but i bet they most probably wouldn't dare to criticize or question their own govt's actions, on the contrary they seem to swallow it all nicely (just because it serves their view) and mock foreigners who question it.
As for this case, if the details Targon gave in one of his msg are true, then it seems mostly a personal issue to me. If they attacked Han people like at Kunming, i would believe it was terroristic, but this case just seems fishy

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## Chinese-Dragon

usernameless said:


> Oh cmon, criticizing because ccp is 'too soft'. Who are you kidding? This is not criticizing the govt at all, it's actually in favor for the govt to do so. I really shouldnt be explaining this, but a regime like CCP gives you the twist it wants through media and state control policies, sure this happens in other countries too, but can you in China criticize or question CCP's policies? Can you make anti-CCP noise without any consequences? Can you openly question its Uyghur or another minority policies and say they are wrong? Many Chinese like to bring up another country's internal matters and mock about it, but i bet they most probably wouldn't dare to criticize or question their own govt's actions, on the contrary they seem to swallow it all nicely (just because it serves their view) and mock foreigners who question it.



I just said that government policy in Xinjiang has utterly failed, did I not?

You have no idea how many Chinese people are opposed to ethnic minorities like Uyghurs being given more rights by the CCP than the majority Han.

In fact this is one of the biggest grievances.

And you know what, I think those people attacking the CCP for being too soft will get their way. The CCP is going to give in to the pressure.

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## usernameless

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I just said that government policy in Xinjiang has utterly failed, did I not?
> 
> You have no idea how many Chinese people are opposed to ethnic minorities like Uyghurs being given more rights by the CCP than the majority Han.
> 
> In fact this is one of the biggest grievances.
> 
> And you know what, I think those people attacking the CCP for being too soft will get their way. The CCP is going to give in to the pressure.


Good luck


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## areal

Do you think most Chinese are not smarter than you so that they are blind in defensing the policies of China gov. ?
maybe you overrated yourself.
Most Chinese dislike Turks as the latter always are full of themselves and take it grant that Uyghur is their business.


usernameless said:


> Sure i care if Uyghurs kill innocent Han people or any innocent Chinese citizen dies, but i dont care what policies CCP does to non-Uyghurs, simply because most/all Chinese seem to blindly defend every policy of CCP, seem to be happy with them and i bet Chinese dont mind them as long as they give wealth to the state while they suppress any anti-ccp voice (lets be honest there). I can clearly feel that most Chinese dont (dare to) question CCP's policies at all. that's my gripe with many of the Chinese here, hence i dont care anymore what CCP does to non-Uyghurs.
> Perhaps China also should stick to supporting rebels in neighbouring countries like Burma and India, who knows where else.
> 
> 
> Oh yes, those guys with the axe or blades were trained on how to handle such melee weapons specially in Turkey. You went full retard there, seriously, yet am not so surprised.

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## usernameless

areal said:


> Do you think most Chinese are not smarter than you so that they are blind in defensing the policies of China gov. ?
> maybe you overrated yourself.
> Most Chinese dislike Turks as the latter always are full of themselves and take it grant that Uyghur is their business.


Turks are not the ones boosting about IQ on this forum. Even if Chinese members are smarter, i wish they were more open-minded and friendlier to discuss these things instead of arrogantly mocking another man's country without any informative reply. I see this often happening to Vietnamese, Indians and Filipino users too, so it can't be us who is wrong on this one. Chinese section defintely needs more grown up serious people. Indeed Uyghurs are our business too, just as Foreign nationals of Chinese background living abroad is your business.

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## xunzi

Who are about some turk. Seriously. LOL



usernameless said:


> Turks are not the ones boosting about IQ on this forum. Even if Chinese members are smarter, i wish they were more open-minded and friendlier to discuss these things instead of arrogantly mocking another man's country without any informative reply. I see this often happening to Vietnamese, Indians and Filipino users too, so it can't be us who is wrong on this one. Chinese section defintely needs more grown up serious people. Indeed Uyghurs are our business too, just as Foreign nationals of Chinese background living abroad is your business.


Why don't you have an open policy for Uighur to migrate to Turkey? Make it simple.

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## Chinese-Dragon

usernameless said:


> Indeed Uyghurs are our business too, just as Foreign nationals of Chinese background living abroad is your business.



Ethnic Chinese of a foreign nationality are none of my business.

My interest is in my fellow Chinese citizens, who come in a variety of ethnic groups, including Han and Uyghur.

Gary Locke, the American diplomat, is ethnic Han Chinese, but he is still an American. Not a Chinese.

Lee Kuan-Yew, the founder of Singapore is ethnic Han Chinese. But he is a Singaporean, not a Chinese citizen.

You see, it is not all about "race".

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## Pangu

usernameless said:


> Oh cmon, criticizing because ccp is 'too soft'. Who are you kidding? This is not criticizing the govt at all, it's actually in favor for the govt to do so. I really shouldnt be explaining this, but a regime like CCP gives you the twist it wants through media and state control policies, sure this happens in other countries too, but can you in China criticize or question CCP's policies? Can you make anti-CCP noise without any consequences? Can you openly question its Uyghur or another minority policies and say they are wrong? Many Chinese like to bring up another country's internal matters and mock about it, but i bet they most probably wouldn't dare to criticize or question their own govt's actions, on the contrary they seem to swallow it all nicely (just because it serves their view) and mock foreigners who question it.
> As for this case, if the details Targon gave in one of his msg are true, then it seems mostly a personal issue to me. If they attacked Han people like at Kunming, i would believe it was terroristic, but this case just seems fishy



If you truely want to know Xinjiang honestly, then I would welcome you or any other Turks to visit, & get a clear understanding for yourself, instead of relying on just media report.

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## areal

My turk friend, your hand and eye sights are too long.
Uyghur is one of Chinese minorities, brothers of other Chinese, occationally adopted turkic language later, they have no blood connection with you. It was the ally of Uyghur and han-Chinese drove you turk to that penisular in the history.
Care about your own problems more, then there will be a chance for our friendship.
Pan-turkism is not suitable for a country like turkey.




usernameless said:


> Turks are not the ones boosting about IQ on this forum. Even if Chinese members are smarter, i wish they were more open-minded and friendlier to discuss these things instead of arrogantly mocking another man's country without any informative reply. I see this often happening to Vietnamese, Indians and Filipino users too, so it can't be us who is wrong on this one. Chinese section defintely needs more grown up serious people. Indeed Uyghurs are our business too, just as Foreign nationals of Chinese background living abroad is your business.

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## usernameless

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Ethnic Chinese of a foreign nationality are none of my business.
> 
> My interest is in my fellow Chinese citizens, who come in a variety of ethnic groups, including Han and Uyghur.
> 
> Gary Locke, the American diplomat, is ethnic Han Chinese, but he is still an American. Not a Chinese.
> 
> Lee Kuan-Yew, the founder of Singapore is ethnic Han Chinese. But he is a Singaporean, not a Chinese citizen.
> 
> You see, it is not all about "race".


But many Chinese expressed support for Russia to protect 'its' Russian subjects in Ukraine. what about that?
I understand what you mean, but still if a foreign govt was hostile to its own people of Chinese background, China surely would react somehwo, right? I dont get why Chinese are so hostile towards Turkey. Its normal for us to express our worries about Uyghurs. These people are just as important for us as they are for you as fellow Chinese citizens. And no, we dont want them to commit terrorist deeds for an independent state which will ultimately fall in Russia's influence, but neither want we to see Uyghurs getting harm done through Han people badmouthing them here or the Chinese govt using suspicious media tricks to blame every incident as a terrorist deed for its own purposes. This Uyghur chapter aside, we're cool, i guess.

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## areal

Uyghur is our Chinese brother, not your Turkic's according to blood connection.
We have solid proof to show that Turkey gov., army and various persons like you, involved the sponsorship of terrorist organizations in the name of East-Turkey. In addition, Turks get used to giving bias comments over anything happened in Xinjiang. That's why Turkey and Turks are not welcome in China.


usernameless said:


> But many Chinese expressed support for Russia to protect 'its' Russian subjects in Ukraine. what about that?
> I understand what you mean, but still if a foreign govt was hostile to its own people of Chinese background, China surely would react somehwo, right? I dont get why Chinese are so hostile towards Turkey. Its normal for us to express our worries about Uyghurs. These people are just as important for us as they are for you as fellow Chinese citizens. And no, we dont want them to commit terrorist deeds for an independent state which will ultimately fall in Russia's influence, but neither want we to see Uyghurs getting harm done through Han people badmouthing them here or the Chinese govt using suspicious media tricks to blame every incident as a terrorist deed for its own purposes. This Uyghur chapter aside, we're cool, i guess.

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## usernameless

areal said:


> Uyghur is our Chinese brother, not your Turkic's according to blood connection.
> We have solid proof to show that Turkey gov., army and various persons like you, involved the sponsorship of terrorist organizations in the name of East-Turkey. In addition, Turks get used to giving bias comments over anything happened in Xinjiang. That's why Turkey and Turks are not welcome in China.


show that proof.
Sure Turks are kinda biased, but many of us also stated that terrorist acts are not tolerated, anywhere. Aren't you biased either? believing everything the one state party forces down your throat with their media?
Turkey and Turks should be welcome to China just like the other way around. you're not the one who decides that anyway.

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## William Hung

usernameless said:


> But many Chinese expressed support for Russia to protect 'its' Russian subjects in Ukraine. what about that?
> I understand what you mean, but still if a foreign govt was hostile to its own people of Chinese background, China surely would react somehwo, right? I dont get why Chinese are so hostile towards Turkey. Its normal for us to express our worries about Uyghurs. These people are just as important for us as they are for you as fellow Chinese citizens. And no, we dont want them to commit terrorist deeds for an independent state which will ultimately fall in Russia's influence, but neither want we to see Uyghurs getting harm done through Han people badmouthing them here or the Chinese govt using suspicious media tricks to blame every incident as a terrorist deed for its own purposes. This Uyghur chapter aside, we're cool, i guess.



Uyghurs look more Han than Turks. As someone mentioned, there aren't any strong blood ties between Uyghurs and turks. And you guys don't really have any historical links with them. That is why most Chinese don't like it when Turkey came out of nowhere and start making noise and "standing up for the poor Uyghurs brother". Your country is just using this opportunity to try to be a big political player and play some kind of regional power, when you guys are not lol. 

Other than that, China don't have any issue with Turks. The people China have issue with are the Arabs who are funding and supporting the Uyghurs extremist (e. g. the wahabi and Saudi arab).

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## Chinese-Dragon

usernameless said:


> But many Chinese expressed support for Russia to protect 'its' Russian subjects in Ukraine. what about that?
> I understand what you mean, but still if a foreign govt was hostile to its own people of Chinese background, China surely would react somehwo, right? I dont get why Chinese are so hostile towards Turkey. Its normal for us to express our worries about Uyghurs. These people are just as important for us as they are for you as fellow Chinese citizens. And no, we dont want them to commit terrorist deeds for an independent state which will ultimately fall in Russia's influence, but neither want we to see Uyghurs getting harm done through Han people badmouthing them here or the Chinese govt using suspicious media tricks to blame every incident as a terrorist deed for its own purposes. This Uyghur chapter aside, we're cool, i guess.



If Americans want to thrash their fellow American citizens of Chinese descent like Gary Locke, I won't complain one bit. If they want to thrash their own citizens that is their own business.

I care about my fellow Chinese citizens, not just Han but also Zhuang, Hui and Uyghur.

The terrorists in Xinjiang attack all of these groups, especially Uyghurs, Han and Hui.

The Chinese government has failed to protect my fellow citizens in Xinjiang, it is a disgrace that they have to fight back with their own hands.

The policy must harden, there must be zero tolerance for terrorists and terrorist sympathizers, and they must be actively hunted down on an immediate basis. Not just the terrorists themselves, but anyone who knowingly aids them and shelters them.

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## William Hung

pigtaker said:


> of course, it is terrorist crime. You have problem with that? then launch you jihad from your country, we would be happy to handle it.



He is not a terrorist, he is a criminal. And he is upset that criminals like him are being associated with terrorists.

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## Sanchez

Chinese local government has awarded the brave folks that stopped the terrorist attackers with awesome 300000 yuan. In another case 6 Chinese Uighur citizens were awarded with 200000yuan.for stopping 3 Turkic Uighur terrorists carrying explosives last month.

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## Ayush

justice delivered


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## Arya Desa

Poor Uyghur.


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## areal

you faked tamil liar, kiched @s by hindi and sinhalese more, it is nothing with china as your terror tamil organization failed.
because terrorists are not welcome in no where.


MadTamil said:


> First Chinese kill innocent Tibetans, then they commit genocide on us Lankan Tamils and now they oppress Turkic Uyghurs

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## Kyle Sun

Targon said:


> Where is the backstory of this incident ? where does it say it wasn't just a street dispute but a terrorist act ? I pointed out info we have and analyzed why it does not looks like a terrorist act, you're free to bring further evidence.
> 
> It does have nothing with my kinship towards Uyghurs, I'm trying to be objective in everything, I don't support seperatist actions of Uyghurs as well, getting no discrimination, getting cultural, religious and language rights is more then enough insisting on an independent state is pointless and harms everybody, as I said we are having the same thing with Kurds.


They tried to kill people randomly.

You can see the video and the picture ,no argument , no talk before they chop people.

It is obvious not personal dispute.



usernameless said:


> Oh cmon, criticizing because ccp is 'too soft'. Who are you kidding? This is not criticizing the govt at all, it's actually in favor for the govt to do so. I really shouldnt be explaining this, but a regime like CCP gives you the twist it wants through media and state control policies, sure this happens in other countries too, but can you in China criticize or question CCP's policies? Can you make anti-CCP noise without any consequences? Can you openly question its Uyghur or another minority policies and say they are wrong? Many Chinese like to bring up another country's internal matters and mock about it, but i bet they most probably wouldn't dare to criticize or question their own govt's actions, on the contrary they seem to swallow it all nicely (just because it serves their view) and mock foreigners who question it.
> As for this case, if the details Targon gave in one of his msg are true, then it seems mostly a personal issue to me. If they attacked Han people like at Kunming, i would believe it was terroristic, but this case just seems fishy


You can not read chinese , if you can , you can check out our network.So many people accuse Gov poignantly.

welfare / traffic / corruption / food safety.................

And now many chinese people or company sue gov official even local gov and they do win .

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## Kyle Sun

Forget to say . 

Next time , do not shoot them to dead. 

Capture them alive and keep torturing them but never let them die. 

Death is too mercy for them.

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## TaiShang

usernameless said:


> Oh yes, those guys with the axe or blades were trained on how to handle such melee weapons specially in Turkey. You went full retard there, seriously, yet am not so surprised.



Many terrorist-supporting state-sponsored civil Turkish organizations such as IHH do also support terrorism in Xinjiang.



usernameless said:


> Oh cmon, criticizing because ccp is 'too soft'. Who are you kidding? This is not criticizing the govt at all, it's actually in favor for the govt to do so. I really shouldnt be explaining this, but a regime like CCP gives you the twist it wants through media and state control policies, sure this happens in other countries too, but can you in China criticize or question CCP's policies?



Yes we can. Check out the reports. Turkey is the number one in terms of reporters jailed.



usernameless said:


> Can you openly question its Uyghur or another minority policies and say they are wrong?



Yes, this debate has been going on in China -- among academics and lay-people. Of course, mass hysteria will not be given ear to. Lynch culture is that of your own.



usernameless said:


> As for this case, if the details Targon gave in one of his msg are true, then it seems mostly a personal issue to me. If they attacked Han people like at Kunming, i would believe it was terroristic, but this case just seems fishy



You seem more and more like a terrorist symphatizer. On the contrary, we do not care what PKK does in your country or what you do with them.



usernameless said:


> Turks are not the ones boosting about IQ on this forum.



That's scientificially proven. People are not talking out of blue air. Bring out your evidence, give a link here, and show the level of your IQ. We will consider that.



usernameless said:


> Chinese section defintely needs more grown up serious people.



No, just as we do not care what is going on in Turkey section, you are relieved from the duty of showing up in our section. Just because we do not care what is going on in your country does not mean that we know nothing about your country. We just do not care. You can do the same and everybody lives in peace.



usernameless said:


> Indeed Uyghurs are our business too



It is not. You are being racist here.

Bombing Turkey from inside Syria and then launching a full attack on Syria is your business. Your new 'breave sons,' that is ISIS, is your greatest concern now. You have zero control over what China does inside and outside the country.



usernameless said:


> But many Chinese expressed support for Russia to protect 'its' Russian subjects in Ukraine. what about that?



Chinese government remained neutral on that matter.



usernameless said:


> And no, we dont want them to commit terrorist deeds for an independent state which will ultimately fall in Russia's influence, but neither want we to see Uyghurs getting harm done through Han people badmouthing them here or the Chinese govt using suspicious media tricks to blame every incident as a terrorist deed for its own purposes. This Uyghur chapter aside, we're cool, i guess.



You are just too blinded by your racism. Uighur is a Chinese national, none of your problem. You do not see our President or PM to travel to the US and lecture US Chinese there, right? This kind of racist affinity is of your nature. Look how both Germany and Austria got pissed by your religio-fanatic PM Erdogan who tried to give sermon to German and Austrian Turkish nationals in their own country.

You are a backward, tribal country. Get over that mindset.

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## rott

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Ethnic Chinese of a foreign nationality are none of my business.


Ouch, I am hurt now, bro. Real hurt!


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## Jlaw

rott said:


> Ouch, I am hurt now, bro. Real hurt!



That will change once China has completely modernize its military. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

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## Chinese-Dragon

rott said:


> Ouch, I am hurt now, bro. Real hurt!



You are fine since you are clearly very loyal to China.

I'm talking about people like Gary Locke, people who only serve the interests of America, and who parade their Chinese ethnicity all while trying to hurt China on behalf of their new motherland.

However, those foreign nationals of Chinese descent, if they serve the interests of China and have their ultimate loyalty to China, I would consider them my compatriots.

It's loyalty that counts in the end. Are they American first, or Chinese first?

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## rott

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You are fine since you are clearly very loyal to China.
> 
> I'm talking about people like Gary Locke, people who only serve the interests of America, and who parade their Chinese ethnicity all while trying to hurt China on behalf of their new motherland.
> 
> However, those foreign nationals of Chinese descent, if they serve the interests of China and have their ultimate loyalty to China, I would consider them my compatriots.
> 
> It's loyalty that counts in the end. Are they American first, or Chinese first?


Agreed! There are always a few bad apples in a bunch.

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## usernameless

TaiShang said:


> Many terrorist-supporting state-sponsored civil Turkish organizations such as IHH do also support terrorism in Xinjiang.



Then proof it with reports. I keep seeing people write this, but no provided links or any credible reports so far. i will read it and consider it.



TaiShang said:


> Yes we can. Check out the reports. Turkey is the number one in terms of reporters jailed.



Turkey has its own internal mess with various groups struggling for influence. It's not like those journalists are detained without any reason. again this has nothing to do with the topic and how CCP handles the case, but with you trying to divert the topic.



TaiShang said:


> Yes, this debate has been going on in China -- among academics and lay-people. Of course, mass hysteria will not be given ear to. Lynch culture is that of your own.



If this debate has been going on, then why all this news about Uyghur or Han anti-CCP political dissidents being hunted by CCP? Sounds nice, but i doubt the Uyghurs themselves have much say.



TaiShang said:


> You seem more and more like a terrorist symphatizer. On the contrary, we do not care what PKK does in your country or what you do with them.



If this debate has been going on, then why all this news about Uyghur or Han anti-CCP political dissidents being hunted by CCP? Sounds nice, but i doubt the Uyghurs themselves have much say.

nah, it's just that some of you guys, incl the Chinese govt, likes to portray every crime of Uyghurs as terrorist. at least it seems like that to me. If this is terrorist by your definition, then a complaining Uyghur must be a crime. again this has nothing to do with the topic and how CCP handles the case, but with you trying to divert the topic.



TaiShang said:


> No, just as we do not care what is going on in Turkey section, you are relieved from the duty of showing up in our section. Just because we do not care what is going on in your country does not mean that we know nothing about your country. We just do not care. You can do the same and everybody lives in peace.



you don't care about what's going on in Turkey because you don't have something to care about to begin with. You have no ties to the people who live there (or are you gonna claim that Armenians and Kurds are suddenly your family?), on the other hand common Turkics (be it Turks, Azerbaijianis, Turkmen, Kazakhstani etc.) have the right to care about Uyghurs and question CCP's actions.



TaiShang said:


> It is not. You are being racist here.
> Bombing Turkey from inside Syria and then launching a full attack on Syria is your business. Your new 'breave sons,' that is ISIS, is your greatest concern now. You have zero control over what China does inside and outside the country.



i fail to see how i am being racist, but definitions like racist, terrorist, criminals seem to have another meaning for many of you guys on this forum. again this has nothing to do with the topic and how CCP handles the case, but with you trying to divert the topic.



TaiShang said:


> You are just too blinded by your racism. Uighur is a Chinese national, none of your problem. You do not see our President or PM to travel to the US and lecture US Chinese there, right? This kind of racist affinity is of your nature. Look how both Germany and Austria got pissed by your religio-fanatic PM Erdogan who tried to give sermon to German and Austrian Turkish nationals in their own country.
> You are a backward, tribal country. Get over that mindset.



you sure skip reading messages, don't you? or do you get angry that you start accusing others and put words in my mouth?
i hope i won't be seeing you defending foreign nationals of Chinese background in neighboring Asian countries when foreign governments or people commit injustice to your Chinese kin abroad.

all in all, baseless accusations, derogatory tone, closed for criticism, diverting topic etc = waste of time. it's not the first time i see you do this and it's getting tiresome, so welcome to the ignore list. Do the same if you can't stand others criticizing your govt or fail to respond in a normal way.


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## Snomannen

The CCP never ever blame a single Uyghur people for any terrorist attack caused in China. They use the term "Xinjiang Separatist Terrorist (新疆分裂份子)" which always being translated as "Uyghur Muslim" by some western medias for some reason. 

Also Xinjiang is not a land traditionally belongs to Uyghurs only.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang sets up trade zone in border county*

Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region broke ground for the construction of a border trade zone Friday to boost trade between local residents and their foreign neighbors.

*Taxkorgan Tajik Autonomous County, which hosts the project on the Pamirs Plateau in southern Xinjiang, borders Pakistan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan.*

*The trade zone, built with an investment of 100 million yuan (about 16 million U.S. dollars), covers an area of 99 mu (about 6.6 hectares). It comprises functional areas for commerce, trade, tourism, dining and accommodations respectively*.

Joint inspection units and other law-enforcement departments will be stationed in the zone.
*When it is completed, the project will provide 300 jobs for local people and create nearly 20 million yuan taxes annually for the local government, said Yu Jun, deputy head of the county.*


The trade zone will help increase incomes of farmers and herdsmen, boost tourism, and promote the Silk Road economic belt and economic cooperation between China and neighboring countries, added Yu.

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## asad71

Wonderful idea.

Wonderful idea.

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## xunzi

Xinjiang is very fortunate. Our central government and the people fully support the effort to modernize and develop the Xinjiang province which will not only help the local ethnic minorities but will give our country a boost in trade and image. We have the money, will, and determination to do whatever we want in this 21st century.

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## William Hung

Is to introduce Sufism to counter the Islamic extremist? 

I think it is impossible to assimilate the Uyghurs into Han confucist culture. This is obvious. 

I also think taking the current approach like monitoring, arrest, etc will take a very long time (and costly) to eliminate all the extremist Uyghurs completely. And I'm not sure if that is possible at all. 

So instead of just dealing from the outside in, deal with it from the inside out. A cheap solution is to introduce a rival sect of Islam like Sufism. From my very very limited knowledge of Sufism, they are not extremists and are non-violent(?). So it may be a good idea to promote this version of Islam, fund sufi school, invite sufi teacher into Xinjiang etc.

What do you think? any Pakistani or Muslim members can enlighten us about Sufism or any other non violent Islam sect?


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## rockstar08

if anyone use violence than it nothing to do with islam ... if they kill innocent peoples of china .. than kill them and put them to justice .. this will be a jihad of Chinese forces against evil.

by the way " jihad doenst mean holy war , but Struggle against anything wrong


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## atatwolf

Independence. 

China has a foreign culture to Uighur people.

During the 50's China occupied Uighur people and now they are using oppresive policies towards Uighur on their own land.

How would Pakistani feel if Indians or Chinese occupied them and told them how to live,etc? Tibetans, Uighurs and even some Chinese region need to brake loose from Beijing control. Sooner or later this will happen and the region will be much more peaceful for Japan, India, Vietnam, Thai and all parties in the neigbhorhood.

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## William Hung

atatwolf said:


> Independence.
> 
> China has a foreign culture to Uighur people.
> 
> During the 50's China occupied Uighur people and now they are using oppresive policies towards Uighur on their own land.
> 
> How would Pakistani feel if Indians or Chinese occupied them and told them how to live,etc? Tibetans, Uighurs and even some Chinese region need to brake loose from Beijing control. Sooner or later this will happen and the region will be much more peaceful for Japan, India, Vietnam, Thai and all parties in the neigbhorhood.



Other than Turkey, I don't think there are any country in the world that agree that Xinjiang has a right to be an independent country. So your talk about independence is a waste of time. It's like having a discussion about pink unicorns. 

Btw, if one person in your country doesn't agree with a law or culture of your country, does that mean your country should give him a portion of land for him to declare as an independent country?

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## cnleio

atatwolf said:


> Independence.
> 
> China has a foreign culture to Uighur people.
> 
> During the 50's China occupied Uighur people and now they are using oppresive policies towards Uighur on their own land.
> 
> How would Pakistani feel if Indians or Chinese occupied them and told them how to live,etc? Tibetans, Uighurs and even some Chinese region need to brake loose from Beijing control. Sooner or later this will happen and the region will be much more peaceful for Japan, India, Vietnam, Thai and all parties in the neigbhorhood.


Does Turkey government support Uighur independence separated from China XinJiang ???

If do, i believe Chinese can find thousand ways to let Turkey get the same result. It's good to make powerful China become ur new enemy. EU bastard.

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## William Hung

rockstar08 said:


> if anyone use violence than it nothing to do with islam ... if they kill innocent peoples of china .. than kill them and put them to justice .. this will be a jihad of Chinese forces against evil.
> 
> by the way " jihad doenst mean holy war , but Struggle against anything wrong



But don't you agree that the PRC government should get involve in educating a moderate/non-violent Islam to the Uyghurs? not directly but by funding moderate Islam scholars from outside, etc.

As I see it, they are not doing enough and it seems like external players like the wahabi or salafist are having the monopoly in influencing and educating the Uyghurs.


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## 55100864

atatwolf said:


> Independence.
> 
> China has a foreign culture to Uighur people.
> 
> During the 50's China occupied Uighur people and now they are using oppresive policies towards Uighur on their own land.
> 
> How would Pakistani feel if Indians or Chinese occupied them and told them how to live,etc? Tibetans, Uighurs and even some Chinese region need to brake loose from Beijing control. Sooner or later this will happen and the region will be much more peaceful for Japan, India, Vietnam, Thai and all parties in the neigbhorhood.


We are talking about solutions, not jokes, u can share ur jokes in the members club section.

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## rockstar08

Black Flag said:


> But don't you agree that the PRC government should get involve in educating a moderate/non-violent Islam to the Uyghurs? not directly but by funding moderate Islam scholars from outside, etc.
> 
> As I see it, they are not doing enough and it seems like eternal players like the wahabi or salafist are having the monopoly in influencing and educating the Uyghurs.



trust me dude , if you dig more deep , you will realize where they getting motivation and funds to fight ... they extremist listen to no one , they need pain killers like Ak-47 .. give them what they need ..

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## William Hung

> ="rockstar08, post: 5829299, member: 149533"]trust me dude , if you dig more deep , you will realize where they getting motivation and funds to fight ... they extremist listen to no one , they need pain killers like Ak-47 .. give them what they need ..



I don't think people are born extremists. They grow up and get educated and influenced to be an extremist. That why I think the CCP needs to spend more money on Islamic education in Xinjiang (secretly of course). I'm not saying this should replace the fight and arrests against the extremist, it should be done together.


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## xuxu1457

China had decided to build a new university in Kashi city(in South Xinjiang), spend 2billion Yuan(325 million $) in which 1 billion of them was provided by Shenzhen city, hope can let more people like a real Muslim rather than terrorists

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## Zero_wing

Black Flag said:


> Other than Turkey, I don't think there are any country in the world that agree that Xinjiang has a right to be an independent country. So your talk about independence is a waste of time. It's like having a discussion about pink unicorns.
> 
> Btw, if one person in your country doesn't agree with a law or culture of your country, does that mean your country should give him a portion of land for him to declare as an independent country?



We support that as long is done right but for now the two side must try a political settlement first a peaceful means to end a porblem.


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## William Hung

xuxu1457 said:


> China had decided to build a new university in Kashi city(in South Xinjiang), spend 2billion Yuan(325 million $) in which 1 billion of them was provided by Shenzhen city, hope can let more people like a real Muslim rather than terrorists



That is good but I'm talking specifically about Islamic education where the government should actively introduce a pacifist Islamic sect to counter the other extremist sect. Right now, I think they only monitor (and sometime regulate) the Islamic schools in Xinjiang but they need to introduce something new to actively rival it.


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## Kompromat

China should integrate them through economics, jobs and infrastructure. It must respect their religious freedom and ethnic diversity. Make them feel like part of the team.

As for the ETIM terrorists, we are smashing them as we speak. No mercy for them.

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## BoXilai

My solution: Using "iron hand" to stop terorism and using policies to improve economy, education,... and reduce the cultural gap.

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## atatwolf

Black Flag said:


> Other than Turkey, I don't think there are any country in the world that agree that Xinjiang has a right to be an independent country.


All China's neighbors will support independence of Uighur and Tibetans, including some Chinese regions that want to break free from Beijing too. I think Japan will have a great role in liberating these regions. Also India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thai and other regional powers will have a say in this before the end. 

Iron hand will only work so long. People will feel more and more alienated and only need one chance to brake free. Even some Chinese regions feel alienated from Beijing. I wouldn't be surprised if they show the hand to Beijing and do business with Japan.

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## Aepsilons

My proposal:

1. Set up a tighter border patrols
2. Introduce sufism into China
3. Implement policies that promote assimilation of ethnic Uighurs with Han majority
4. Advocate a more tolerant policy for ethnic groups in Xinjiang and other provinces
5. Refrain from excessive ruthlessness in ethnic discord situations
6. Observation of muslim sensitivities

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## xunzi

It is very easy to blame us for the Uighur for turning into Islamic extremist. Fact is Uighurs are like the Gypsies of Europe. Very unreasonable and they believe in their way of life. They resist any form of assimilation and would not live peacefully with other ethnic minorities. Their way of life are not conducive to modern style. I hate to say this but it is a shame that our Turkey friends cannot bring them back. Do us a favor and have an open policy toward Uighur migration to Turkey. This will solve all problem and we will send a "thank you" note directly to Turkey Erdogan!

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## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> It is very easy to blame us for the Uighur for turning into Islamic extremist. Fact is Uighurs are like the Gypsies of Europe. Very unreasonable and they believe in their way of life. They resist any form of assimilation and would not live peacefully with other ethnic minorities. Their way of life are not conducive to modern style. I hate to say this but it is a shame that our Turkey friends cannot bring them back. Do us a favor and have an open policy toward Uighur migration to Turkey. This will solve all problem and we will send a "thank you" note directly to Turkey Erdogan!



I would propose a more liberal policy that's more inclusive for China's minorities. The fact is that the Uighyurs are in China and they have been living in Xinjiang for hundreds of years , and a historical basis for their interaction with China through the silk road, connecting the West vis a vis the Middle East and Central Asia to the resources of the Orient. There is nothing wrong with having ethnic minorities and inclusive economic, political policies are the key. Take for example Russia, India, and Indonesia; these three countries have a significant land mass, large populations and many ethnic minorities that make up the national milieu, and thriving whilst at it.


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## British Muslim

Best solution is to allow the people of East Turkistan to hold a referendum to see if they would like to continue to suffer under the oppressive commie regime or whether they wish to live as free men.

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## Aepsilons

British Muslim said:


> Best solution is to allow the people of East Turkistan to hold a referendum to see if they would like to continue to suffer under the oppressive commie regime or whether they wish to live as free men.



A referendum may will not be recognized by Beijing's authoritarian regime.


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## ephone

They can get the hell out of xinjiang if they do not like the CCP. We do not give a fxxk what those uighur terrorists think. There are quite a few moderate uighurs who are with CCP.



British Muslim said:


> Best solution is to allow the people of East Turkistan to hold a referendum to see if they would like to continue to suffer under the oppressive commie regime or whether they wish to live as free men.



1.4 billion Chinese will not recognize that for sure. I do not care who rules China, CCP or another government. 




Nihonjin1051 said:


> A referendum may will not be recognized by Beijing's authoritarian regime.

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## Aepsilons

ephone said:


> They can get the hell out of xinjiang if they do not like the CCP. We do not give a fxxk what those uighur terrorists think. There are quite a few moderate uighurs who are with CCP.



Why should they leave? They've been living in that land centuries even before Han arrived in that region. No, you cannot have such xenophobic mentality especially in a region that is bordering a plethora of nation states and ethnic groups. It would be a strategic imperative to develop policies that will only induce stability and inclusivity in the western frontier.


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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I would propose a more liberal policy that's more inclusive for China's minorities. The fact is that the Uighyurs are in China and they have been living in Xinjiang for hundreds of years , and a historical basis for their interaction with China through the silk road, connecting the West vis a vis the Middle East and Central Asia to the resources of the Orient. There is nothing wrong with having ethnic minorities and inclusive economic, political policies are the key. Take for example Russia, India, and Indonesia; these three countries have a significant land mass, large populations and many ethnic minorities that make up the national milieu, and thriving whilst at it.


Russia and India deal with worse extremist and terrorist. Terrorist activities in those country are very common, especially India. Perhaps an Indian friends can talk to you.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Why should they leave? They've been living in that land centuries even before Han arrived in that region. No, you cannot have such xenophobic mentality especially in a region that is bordering a plethora of nation states and ethnic groups. It would be a strategic imperative to develop policies that will only induce stability and inclusivity in the western frontier.


We Han lived on that land during the Han Dynasty before the Uighur arrived. Learn history before you talk!

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## karan21

These Chinese terrorists really think they can create mess and then get away.  This ain't Pakistan, arab or India. This is China. 

Chinese forces will show 0 mercy for these idiots. They will be wiped off the moment they CpC decided to pull the plug on them. They only live until CpC wants them to.

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## KingMamba

This thread shows that you do not really know them. Uighers were always Sufis if today they are salafists it is because the CCP failed to integrate them properly, you do not force people to integrate you give then reason to do so thenselves.

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## SAMEET

xunzi said:


> Russia and India deal with worse extremist and terrorist. Terrorist activities in those country are very common, especially India. Perhaps an Indian friends can talk to you.
> 
> 
> We Han lived on that land during the Han Dynasty before the Uighur arrived. Learn history before you talk!


the chinese dealing with extremism is right ! BTW chinese did the best to make people learn in there country !

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## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> Russia and India deal with worse extremist and terrorist. Terrorist activities in those country are very common, especially India. Perhaps an Indian friends can talk to you.
> 
> 
> We Han lived on that land during the Han Dynasty before the Uighur arrived. Learn history before you talk!



The fact of the matter is that there will always be radical groups whenever a nation state rules various peoples of differing ethnic and religious origin. Indonesia had fought wars in suppressing terrorist organizations such as JI (Jeremiyyah Islamiyah) as well as separatist groups from Irian Jaya, and even in Aceh (Sumatra), and with an inclusive policy, the country has been progressive. In fact, there is a lot China can learn from Indonesia. 

As for India, well India is literally the thesis of a heterogeneous nation state. It's 1.2+ billion population is composed of people with different religious backgrounds, ethnic and racial backgrounds, so it has to have policies to understand the religious and ethnic sensitivities. Despite some issues of corruption and infringement, which i believe can be fixed with proper policies, India is a thriving democracy (the world's largest), and a growing economic player. 

The point i'm foraying to you is that China can learn from a paradigm shift of authoritarian rule to a more inclusive 'enligthened' policies that are conducive for the Han majority as well as the ethnic minorities in the People's Republic.

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## SAMEET

karan21 said:


> These Chinese terrorists really think they can create mess and then get away.  This ain't Pakistan, arab or India. This is China.
> 
> Chinese forces will show 0 mercy for these idiots. They will be wiped off the moment they CpC decided to pull the plug on them. They only live until CpC wants them to.


FAckkk Sickuarism of lies and greed and embrace truth and loy


Nihonjin1051 said:


> The fact of the matter is that there will always be radical groups whenever a nation state rules various peoples of differing ethnic and religious origin. Indonesia had fought wars in suppressing terrorist organizations such as JI (Jeremiyyah Islamiyah) as well as separatist groups from Irian Jaya, and even in Aceh (Sumatra), and with an inclusive policy, the country has been progressive. In fact, there is a lot China can learn from Indonesia.
> 
> As for India, well India is literally the thesis of a heterogeneous nation state. It's 1.2+ billion population is composed of people with different religious backgrounds, ethnic and racial backgrounds, so it has to have policies to understand the religious and ethnic sensitivities. Despite some issues of corruption and infringement, which i believe can be fixed with proper policies, India is a thriving democracy (the world's largest), and a growing economic player.
> 
> The point i'm foraying to you is that China can learn from a paradigm shift of authoritarian rule to a more inclusive 'enligthened' policies that are conducive for the Han majority as well as the ethnic minorities in the People's Republic.


The china become lenient its day for breakup ! so they wont and I wont recomend either !


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## KingMamba

xunzi said:


> It is very easy to blame us for the Uighur for turning into Islamic extremist. Fact is Uighurs are like the Gypsies of Europe. Very unreasonable and they believe in their way of life. They resist any form of assimilation and would not live peacefully with other ethnic minorities. Their way of life are not conducive to modern style. I hate to say this but it is a shame that our Turkey friends cannot bring them back. Do us a favor and have an open policy toward Uighur migration to Turkey. This will solve all problem and we will send a "thank you" note directly to Turkey Erdogan!



The fact is first they cannot find work because they cannot speak Chinese then even if they learn Chinese they see signs saying hiring hans so what do you expect from them? They will remain in their traditional ways because they have no other option.

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## Aepsilons

SAMEET said:


> FAckkk Sickuarism of lies and greed and embrace truth and loy
> 
> The china become lenient its day for breakup ! so they wont and I wont recomend either !



Such blind zealotry is the catalyst of un-enlightened clamor.

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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The fact of the matter is that there will always be radical groups whenever a nation state rules various peoples of differing ethnic and religious origin. Indonesia had fought wars in suppressing terrorist organizations such as JI (Jeremiyyah Islamiyah) as well as separatist groups from Irian Jaya, and even in Aceh (Sumatra), and with an inclusive policy, the country has been progressive. In fact, there is a lot China can learn from Indonesia.
> 
> As for India, well India is literally the thesis of a heterogeneous nation state. It's 1.2+ billion population is composed of people with different religious backgrounds, ethnic and racial backgrounds, so it has to have policies to understand the religious and ethnic sensitivities. Despite some issues of corruption and infringement, which i believe can be fixed with proper policies, India is a thriving democracy (the world's largest), and a growing economic player.
> 
> The point i'm foraying to you is that China can learn from a paradigm shift of authoritarian rule to a more inclusive 'enligthened' policies that are conducive for the Han majority as well as the ethnic minorities in the People's Republic.


There is nothing we can learn from Indonesia. Indonesia is a muslim state. Muslim and muslim click, you know? I am sure that if we become an Islam state, these Uighurs will LOVE us to dead. LOL But speaking objectively, it is time the Islamists need to look themselves in the mirror and ask if they can live peacefully and accept other religion and people that are different and don't follow their faith.

We have given preferential treatment to ethnic minorities. Can we do more? certainly! But let be honest here, very few minority of Uighurs are extremist. Most are okay happily living in the Greater China in which prosperity and opportunity will exist for them if they have the merit.

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## Targon

As I mentioned before talks of some Chinese friends here is similar to what we had in the process of Kurdish issue, "We will exterminate them, our iron hand, cHiNa StRoNg, behold before the mighty Chinese army"

These are nothing but empty talk, no, you're not gonna exterminate any sh.t, we are in 21th century, not middle ages, its no longer possible to do such things without having heavy consequences.

All you gonna do is use violence as far as limit allows, such as killing protestors, unjust arrests, tortures, which will not solve your problems, you can't simply shut mouths of millions of people, soon or later you will understand your way does nothing but harm, you will try to gain them back by giftly rights, or you will just let them go.

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## Aepsilons

KingMamba said:


> The fact is first they cannot find work because they cannot speak Chinese then even if they learn Chinese they see signs saying hiring hans so what do you expect from them? They will remain in their traditional ways because they have no other option.



Correct. The only way to solve the problem is for the government (central) to implement policies that encourage Uighyur inclusion into the general society. 

Alienation does nothing. In fact, China can learn from Russia's policies in Chechnya. After years of war, pouring economic development in Chechnya has helped in reduce ethnic tensions there. Same for Indonesia's formerly restive region in Irian Jaya.



xunzi said:


> There is nothing we can learn from Indonesia. Indonesia is a muslim state. Muslim and muslim click, you know? I am sure that if we become an Islam state, these Uighurs will LOVE us to dead. LOL But speaking objectively, it is time the Islamists need to look themselves in the mirror and ask if they can live peacefully and accept other religion and people that are different and don't follow their faith.
> 
> We have given preferential treatment to ethnic minorities. Can we do more? certainly! But let be honest here, very few minority of Uighurs are extremist. Most are okay happily living in the Greater China in which prosperity and opportunity will exist for them if they have the merit.



Indonesia's is a secular republic. And there are many areas in Indonesia with large Christian, Buddhist and Hindu observers. There is a large Christian population in Celebes, also in Irian Jaya, there is a large Hindu presence in Bali and surrounding islands. Indonesia is a model for many countries: 1) it will encourage inclusion and collaboration between all of its citizens iregardless of religious and ethnic background 2) the country will deal with deadly terrorist groups through military campaigns, but also will win the hearts and minds of the people through community building initiatives.


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## KingMamba

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Correct. The only way to solve the problem is for the government (central) to implement policies that encourage Uighyur inclusion into the general society.
> 
> Alienation does nothing. In fact, China can learn from Russia's policies in Chechnya. After years of war, pouring economic development in Chechnya has helped in reduce ethnic tensions there. Same for Indonesia's formerly restive region in Irian Jaya.



Exactly and Russians had to face an insurgency that had _much much much_ more public support in Chechnya, they militarily defeated them and then let them have autonomy and gave them opportunities to live respectfully and today Chechnya is quiet. ETIM is like an aberration compared to the Chechen insurgency which even defeated the Russians at one point.

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## xunzi

KingMamba said:


> The fact is first they cannot find work because they cannot speak Chinese then even if they learn Chinese they see signs saying hiring hans so what do you expect from them? They will remain in their traditional ways because they have no other option.


When we teach the Uighurs the national language, they say we try to oppress their language and culture despite the fact majorities of Chinese are bilingual, speak dialect and national language. When we give preferential treatment for school and upper level school, they say we do to brainwash their kids. When jobs are posted, they expect to get the job without satisfying the requirement. How can you deal with unreasonable people? How the European dealing with Gypsies? Can you help me find some solution to that question? Let not pretend like there are not other Uighurs who can successfully work in China. There are many Uighurs who live and does work for the government. If those people can do it, why can't these other Uighurs do the same? You see, our culture will not tolerate lazy people, entitled people who believe they deserve because they are exclusive. Sometime you need to look yourselves in the mirror and find the answer.

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## Aepsilons

KingMamba said:


> Exactly and Russians had to face an insurgency that had _much much much_ more public support in Chechnya, they militarily defeated them and then let them have autonomy and gave them opportunities to live respectfully and today Chechnya is quiet. ETIM is like an aberration compared to the Chechen insurgency which even defeated the Russians at one point.



Precisely. It is an example of how Christian-majority, Slav Russian Federation can deal with ethnic and religious minorities. I mean there are even Mongols in Russia who are patriotic , serving in the Russian Federation Armed Forces. There's a lot China can learn in terms of nation building and policies regarding ethnic minorities.


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## SAMEET

KingMamba said:


> Exactly and Russians had to face an insurgency that had _much much much_ more public support in Chechnya, they militarily defeated them and then let them have autonomy and gave them opportunities to live respectfully and today Chechnya is quiet. ETIM is like an aberration compared to the Chechen insurgency which even defeated the Russians at one point.


and why Chechnya is not free because of the status they didnt earn since starting thats why kremlin impose stiff contrl on it !


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## Aepsilons

xunzi said:


> When we teach the Uighurs the national language, they say we try to oppress their language and culture despite the fact majorities of Chinese are bilingual, speak dialect and national language. When we give preferential treatment for school and upper level school, they say we do to brainwash their kids. When jobs are posted, they expect to get the job without satisfying the requirement. How can you deal with unreasonable people? How the European dealing with Gypsies? Can you help me find some solution to that question? Let not pretend like there are not other Uighurs who can successfully work in China. There are many Uighurs who live and does work for the government. If those people can do it, why can't these other Uighurs do the same? You see, our culture will not tolerate lazy people, entitled people who believe they deserve because they are exclusive. Sometime you need to look yourselves in the mirror and find the answer.



I don't think it is fair for you to compare Uighyur people with gypsies. There is a profound dichotomy between the former and latter.


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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Indonesia's is a secular republic. And there are many areas in Indonesia with large Christian, Buddhist and Hindu observers. There is a large Christian population in Celebes, also in Irian Jaya, there is a large Hindu presence in Bali and surrounding islands. Indonesia is a model for many countries: 1) it will encourage inclusion and collaboration between all of its citizens iregardless of religious and ethnic background 2) the country will deal with deadly terrorist groups through military campaigns, but also will win the hearts and minds of the people through community building initiatives.


Indonesia is a Muslim state. Go ask the Indonesian friend.

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## SAMEET

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I don't think it is fair for you to compare Uighyur people with gypsies. There is a profound dichotomy between the former and latter.


and why so are gypsy low esteemed people they are better then people of community in which religious supremist terrorist exist !


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## KingMamba

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Precisely. It is an example of how Christian-majority, Slav Russian Federation can deal with ethnic and religious minorities. I mean there are even Mongols in Russia who are patriotic , serving in the Russian Federation Armed Forces. There's a lot China can learn in terms of nation building and policies regarding ethnic minorities.



Actually Russia is a horrible example of how religious minorities should be treated but the situation was similar so I brought them up.


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## xunzi

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I don't think it is fair for you to compare Uighyur people with gypsies. There is a profound dichotomy between the former and latter.


Close your eyes and look at the problem. You will see what I'm saying is truth or not.

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## Jlaw

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I would propose a more liberal policy that's more inclusive for China's minorities. The fact is that the Uighyurs are in China and they have been living in Xinjiang for hundreds of years , and a historical basis for their interaction with China through the silk road, connecting the West vis a vis the Middle East and Central Asia to the resources of the Orient. There is nothing wrong with having ethnic minorities and inclusive economic, political policies are the key. Take for example Russia, India, and Indonesia; these three countries have a significant land mass, large populations and many ethnic minorities that make up the national milieu, and thriving whilst at it.


Don't be a joker. We gave them affirmative action and they don't want to take advantage of it, not much more we can do. I see religion as a brainwashing tool to turn some Uighurs into extremist. blaming on poverty does not work as at one time almost all Chinese were poor but you don't see us bombing and knifing innocent people.

Religion is to blame.

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## KingMamba

SAMEET said:


> and why Chechnya is not free because of the status they didnt earn since starting thats why kremlin impose stiff contrl on it !



Kremlin has stiff control on all the republics in the Federation but they do allow locals a large amount of self rule as long as they do not trouble the center.


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## atatwolf

KingMamba said:


> This thread shows that you do not really know them. Uighers were always Sufis if today they are salafists it is because the CCP failed to integrate them properly, you do not force people to integrate you give then reason to do so thenselves.


Chinese are not capable of that kind of reason. They are fascist from nature. That is why in my first response I said. Independence is only way for peace. More strict control will make the situation even worse and accelate the brake up of East-Turkistan and Tibet.

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## ephone

Before Han?

Where did you learn your history?

That is where the Han Dynasty kicked the butt of the Huns...

That is where Wei Qing (Simplified Chinese characters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and Huo Qubing (Huo Qubing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia destroyed the Huns' army.


That is more than 100 years before BC..

By then when we set up our government there, uighurs were not even a term, let alone existence. they moved to xinjiang area centuries later, as early as late Tang Dynasty.


As for Chinese mentality, well, we have no problem if you want to coexist peacefully within China. Otherwise, we will have to resolve it to the hard way.

In the past 500 hundred years, both Qing Empires, ROC and CCP all have demonstrated what the hard way meant.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Why should they leave? They've been living in that land centuries even before Han arrived in that region. No, you cannot have such xenophobic mentality especially in a region that is bordering a plethora of nation states and ethnic groups. It would be a strategic imperative to develop policies that will only induce stability and inclusivity in the western frontier.



You *** are welcome to try independence.

We will annihilate you like we destroy those uighur terrorists.



atatwolf said:


> Chinese are not capable of that kind of reason. They are fascist from nature. That is why in my first response I said. Independence is only way for peace. More strict control will make the situation even worse and accelate the brake up of East-Turkistan and Tibet.

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## KingMamba

xunzi said:


> When we teach the Uighurs the national language, they say we try to oppress their language and culture despite the fact majorities of Chinese are bilingual, speak dialect and national language. When we give preferential treatment for school and upper level school, they say we do to brainwash their kids. When jobs are posted, they expect to get the job without satisfying the requirement. How can you deal with unreasonable people? How the European dealing with Gypsies? Can you help me find some solution to that question? Let not pretend like there are not other Uighurs who can successfully work in China. There are many Uighurs who live and does work for the government. If those people can do it, why can't these other Uighurs do the same? You see, our culture will not tolerate lazy people, entitled people who believe they deserve because they are exclusive. Sometime you need to look yourselves in the mirror and find the answer.



Like I said there is job discrimination even if they speak Chinese signs saying hiring Hans only and such like that, if not they wouldn't complain they are not saying hand us the jobs just give them the chance. So I guess the main issue is a lack of dialogue, you say there are plenty of opportunities and they say there are too few so the question is who is lying and for what purpose?


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## Jlaw

Targon said:


> As I mentioned before talks of some Chinese friends here is similar to what we had in the process of Kurdish issue, "We will exterminate them, our iron hand, cHiNa StRoNg, behold before the mighty Chinese army"
> 
> These are nothing but empty talk, no, you're not gonna exterminate any sh.t, we are in 21th century, not middle ages, its no longer possible to do such things without having heavy consequences.
> 
> All you gonna do is use violence as far as limit allows, such as killing protestors, unjust arrests, tortures, which will not solve your problems, you can't simply shut mouths of millions of people, soon or later you will understand your way does nothing but harm, you will try to gain them back by giftly rights, or you will just let them go.



oh really? i never said anything or other real Chinese PDF members said anything about exterminating all Uighurs, but we will exterminate terrorists regardless of race.

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## xunzi

KingMamba said:


> Like I said there is job discrimination even if they speak Chinese signs saying hiring Hans only and such like that, if not they wouldn't complain they are not saying hand us the jobs just give them the chance. So I guess the main issue is a lack of dialogue, you say there are plenty of opportunities and they say there are too few so the question is who is lying and for what purpose?


If you want to know who is lying, perhaps you need to ask the Uyghur who does get the job working for China companies and government agency. How did they do it? There has to be an answer to that question!

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## ephone

China learns nation-building from Russia???

Is that a joke?




Nihonjin1051 said:


> Precisely. It is an example of how Christian-majority, Slav Russian Federation can deal with ethnic and religious minorities. I mean there are even Mongols in Russia who are patriotic , serving in the Russian Federation Armed Forces. There's a lot China can learn in terms of nation building and policies regarding ethnic minorities.

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## Jlaw

KingMamba said:


> Like I said there is job discrimination even if they speak Chinese signs saying hiring Hans only and such like that, if not they wouldn't complain they are not saying hand us the jobs just give them the chance. So I guess the main issue is a lack of dialogue, you say there are plenty of opportunities and they say there are too few so the question is who is lying and for what purpose?


How can you work in a high paying job without a university education? how can Chinese firms hire you if you are not able to fluently speak, write and read Chinese?
Firms hire the most qualified as they are not charities, get used to it because that is reality around the world. Charity begins with yourself first.

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## KingMamba

Jlaw said:


> How can you work in a high paying job without a university education? how can Chinese firms hire you if you are not able to fluently speak, write and read Chinese?
> Firms hire the most qualified as they are not charities, get used to it because that is reality around the world. Charity begins with yourself first.



So then set up unskilled jobs for them like you have in other parts of the country, the living standards are rising in Eastern China anyway and you will need people to work the jobs that will eventually open up.


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## TaiShang

Good development to encourage more interaction by bringing the minorities into the center of public life, integrating and assimilating them into the larger cultural mold.

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## Beast

atatwolf said:


> All China's neighbors will support independence of Uighur and Tibetans, including some Chinese regions that want to break free from Beijing too. I think Japan will have a great role in liberating these regions. Also India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thai and other regional powers will have a say in this before the end.
> 
> Iron hand will only work so long. People will feel more and more alienated and only need one chance to brake free. Even some Chinese regions feel alienated from Beijing. I wouldn't be surprised if they show the hand to Beijing and do business with Japan.



Same as your Kurd. If xinjiang goes I dependant. Turkey need to do the same for Kurd. With Kurd in Iraq going to break away. They will soon rally their members in Turkey to join them in forming a bigger Kurd land. Then we will see what big mouth atawolf going to say. This is called karma.

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## xesy

Jlaw said:


> oh really? i never said anything or other real Chinese PDF members said anything about exterminating all Uighurs, but we will exterminate terrorists regardless of race.


This I must disagree, because it will be too easy for Chinese to brand Uighurs as terrorists. Let's me give you an example: 2 competitors, one Chinese and one Uighur have business. The Uighur business is more effective and may force Chinese business to shut down. So the Chinese report to the police that the Uighur is a terrorist. So the police take the Uighur away and his business is now abandon, waiting to be devoured by the Chinese. If a Chinese is accused of terrorist, he must be properly investigated through and through. But to the Uighur, Chinese police may not be so kind. The police can be good people, but if they stereo type Uighurs, they might make mistake. Not to mention that the police surely favor Chinese over Uighurs, as they represent the govt thought and action, and as of China govt now, it belongs to Han people.

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## Hakan

IDK the whole situation is messed up. On one side you have communism and other the other side you have islam. At the same time you have the Turks and then the chinese who have been enemies for a while not in relatively recent times though im talking like a long time ago before the 1500's.

There shouldn't be any problems between the Turks and the chinese but I am afraid that we have to many differences and those will get in the way of any long term solution. Right now it looks like the issue is more of a religious freedom type thing rather than being able to express one's ethnic identity which I think turkics in china can do based on what I have seen on t.v.

As long as there are religious restrictions in china this mess will continue on.

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## Aepsilons

Kaan said:


> *As long as there are religious restrictions in china this mess will continue on*.



Solid point.

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## Jlaw

KingMamba said:


> So then set up unskilled jobs for them like you have in other parts of the country, the living standards are rising in Eastern China anyway and you will need people to work the jobs that will eventually open up.


unskilled jobs are abundance. But many people want the quick money. It isn't going to happen.



xesy said:


> This I must disagree, because it will be too easy for Chinese to brand Uighurs as terrorists. Let's me give you an example: 2 competitors, one Chinese and one Uighur have business. The Uighur business is more effective and may force Chinese business to shut down. So the Chinese report to the police that the Uighur is a terrorist. So the police take the Uighur away and his business is now abandon, waiting to be devoured by the Chinese. If a Chinese is accused of terrorist, he must be properly investigated through and through. But to the Uighur, Chinese police may not be so kind. The police can be good people, but if they stereo type Uighurs, they might make mistake. Not to mention that the police surely favor Chinese over Uighurs, as they represent the govt thought and action, and as of China govt now, it belongs to Han people.



Stop your lies brother. Do not equate the stuff that is happening in Vietnam to China.

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## Aepsilons

xesy said:


> This I must disagree, because it will be too easy for Chinese to brand Uighurs as terrorists. Let's me give you an example: 2 competitors, one Chinese and one Uighur have business. The Uighur business is more effective and may force Chinese business to shut down. So the Chinese report to the police that the Uighur is a terrorist. So the police take the Uighur away and his business is now abandon, waiting to be devoured by the Chinese. If a Chinese is accused of terrorist, he must be properly investigated through and through. But to the Uighur, Chinese police may not be so kind. The police can be good people, but if they stereo type Uighurs, they might make mistake. Not to mention that the police surely favor Chinese over Uighurs, as they represent the govt thought and action, and as of China govt now, it belongs to Han people.



I am in agreement with this, it would be counterproductive if the Chinese security forces were to use profiling , in fact, the blanketed term of 'terrorist' could be used by Chinese security forces to commit heinous acts or even abuses on Uighyur peoples who may be innocent of crimes. Considering the lingual barrier and limitations, lapses in communication may catalyze to improper judgment by the authorities.

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## Kyle Sun

KingMamba said:


> The fact is first they cannot find work because they cannot speak Chinese then even if they learn Chinese they see signs saying hiring hans so what do you expect from them? They will remain in their traditional ways because they have no other option.


You can check out the whole world .

You can find so many Chinese people almost in every country.

Most of them can not speak foreign language , but they study hard and work hard to make their lives.

And if you have time to go over china , you will find Uighur in every city , I guarantee you that .

Some of those Uighur people work hard to make money. They open their small businesses , like restaurant/BBQ ,or find a job in factory. Normally ,when they hold their feet and have stable work, the whole family will follow.

Some guys do not like to work , they become violent thieves.

I have a Uighur friend also . This guy is a fat guy , just like me , his kebab is awesome, I always prefer his restaurant and introduce it to my friends .At first ,it is very hard to understand each other , but just half year later , we can talk to each other very well . Because he always tries to talk to his customers .

In conclusion , the language can not be used as excuse . Han Chinese face the same situation,and some Uighur people do quite well also.

BTW ,some companies do not like to hire Uighur indeed. But that is not because of racism ,the actual reason is the dietary habit . Han Chinese eat a lot of pork , it is not so easy to cook Muslin food in factory , we do not want to offend Uighur people by chance

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## Jlaw

Kyle Sun said:


> You can check out the whole world .
> 
> You can find so many Chinese people almost in every country.
> 
> Most of them can not speak foreign language , but they study hard and work hard to make their lives.
> 
> And if you have time to go over china , you will find Uighur in every city , I guarantee you that .
> 
> Some of those Uighur people work hard to make money. They open their small businesses , like restaurant/BBQ ,or find a job in factory. Normally ,when they hold their feet and have stable work, the whole family will follow.
> 
> Some guys do not like to work , they become violent thieves.
> 
> I have a Uighur friend also . This guy is a fat guy , just like me , his kebab is awesome, I always prefer his restaurant and introduce it to my friends .At first ,it is very hard to understand each other , but just half year later , we can talk to each other very well . Because he always tries to talk to his customers .
> 
> In conclusion , the language can not be used as excuse . Han Chinese face the same situation,and some Uighur people do quite well also.
> 
> BTW ,some companies do not like to hire Uighur indeed. But that is not because of racism ,the actual reason is the dietary habit . Han Chinese eat a lot of pork , it is not so easy to cook Muslin food.



Private companies can hire whomever they want. It's their money.

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## Kyle Sun

Jlaw said:


> Private companies can hire whomever they want. It's their money.


Yes . 

But Uighur peoples' dietary habit is really a problem.

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## Aepsilons

Jlaw said:


> Private companies can hire whomever they want. It's their money.



In the field of economics and business management this is called bias and preferential treatment. Not only is this unethical, but negates the organization's diversity initiative. Chinese companies should provide job opportunities for the minorities.

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## Jlaw

Kyle Sun said:


> Yes .
> 
> But Uighur peoples' dietary habit is really a problem.


Again we are back to religion. I would be hesitant to hire someone who need special accommodation as it takes time and resources away from my company.

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## Aepsilons

Jlaw said:


> Again we are back to religion. I would be hesitant to hire someone who need special accommodation as it takes time and resources away from my company.



So , in effect, you condone discrimination.


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## Jlaw

[quote="Nihonjin1051 said:


> So , in effect, you condone discrimination.



Hiring the best possible candidate is discrimination? 
Companies always try and find the best people.


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## Hakan

Kyle Sun said:


> Yes .
> 
> But Uighur peoples' dietary habit is really a problem.


The uyghurs don't like your mentality.


Jlaw said:


> Again we are back to religion. I would be hesitant to hire someone who need special accommodation as it takes time and resources away from my company.


What if an uygur owns a company that deals in international trade where he meets with many international clients and he decides not hire an older han chinese man because he is used to spitting all of the time? The uyghur thinks that this behavior can scare off customers.

(Im not comparing halal food requirements to spit im just using it because the scenarios are similar.)

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## Aepsilons

Jlaw said:


> Hiring the best possible candidate is discrimination?
> Companies always try and find the best people.



By ignoring the religious sensitivities of a group of people; and selecting one group instead of another is called discrimination. In Japan this is actually frowned upon. 

In fact, Japan even hires technical professionals from middle eastern, south asian countries. We look at their 'overall' strengths: 1) education, 2) mastery of japanese language, 3) professionalism as per their curriculum vitae. Religious background or cultural difference is least of our concern. 

This is why sometimes why some Japanese organizations hire foreigners for positions than even Japanese applicants.


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## mycutegirl

independence?i can say,chinese have 1000 ways force your country be disintegrating,but you have less one way make xinjiang independent.
what is truth,the truth is so mang people here are giants of keyboard and dwarfs of reality.
i dont want to talk how is Uigur,i have been to Urumchi when my friend gained a university of shanghai,she told me some inviting and blessedly stories about the event of 7.5 in 2009.
i can say people here dont understand a real xinjiang.and they just judge according to media.
everyone think HAN bully and oppress Uigur,just check the population growth of Uigur?and the Uigur policy.
and what govt's wrong is that govt's given benifits is not Uigur' want.

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## Jlaw

Kaan said:


> The uyghurs don't like your mentality.
> 
> What if an uygur owns a company that deals in international trade where he meets with many international clients and he decides not hire an older han chinese man because he is used to spitting all of the time? The uyghur thinks that this behavior can scare off customers.
> 
> (Im not comparing halal food requirements to spit im just using it because the scenarios are similar.)


If it's the Uighur's owners money and he is risking his money in a business, he can hire whomever he thinks will be able to perform the best job. 

Your analogy is not good. How does the Uighur know this Chinese man spits all the time if they just met for an interview, unless of course you Turk believe all older Chinese men spit all the time?

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## Aepsilons

mycutegirl said:


> independence?i can say,chinese have 1000 ways force your country be disintegrating,but you have less one way make xinjiang independent.
> what is truth,the truth is so mang people here are giants of keyboard and dwarfs of reality.
> i dont want to talk how is Uigur,i have been to Urumchi when my friend gained a university of shanghai,she told me some inviting and blessedly stories about the event of 7.5 in 2009.
> i can say people here dont understand a real xinjiang.and they just judge according to media.
> everyone think HAN bully and oppress Uigur,just check the population growth of Uigur?and the Uigur policy.
> and what govt's wrong is that govt's given benifits is not Uigur' want.



Some of the comments of your fellow compatriots , which heralds and supports discriminative policies for people of the Islamic faith in the basis of their eating habits (preference for halal food). With these comments , I can only empathize with some of the protestations of the Uighur people. If i was a muslim and the country -- i would like it if that country would be sensitive of my religious background and faith. Instead of promoting a culture of inclusivity and cherishing the religious and ethnic differences, there is a sense of xenophobia and exclusivity for those who do not belong to a particular ethnic group. 

This is , in my honest opinion, counterproductive.

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## mycutegirl

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Some of the comments of your fellow compatriots , which heralds and supports discriminative policies for people of the Islamic faith in the basis of their eating habits (preference for halal food). With these comments , I can only empathize with some of the protestations of the Uighur people. If i was a muslim and the country -- i would like it if that country would be sensitive of my religious background and faith. Instead of promoting a culture of inclusivity and cherishing the religious and ethnic differences, there is a sense of xenophobia and exclusivity for those who do not belong to a particular ethnic group.
> 
> This is , in my honest opinion, counterproductive.



yeah,i know what you mean,the CCP's Uygur policy is half successful,they just reinforce controls of xinjiang,and failure to make Uygur integrate into the whloe chinese nation.
but i dont think independence of xinjiang will be hanppened.
both the views of HAN think Uygur and Uygur think HAN were never changed although it passed nearly 70years.this is the point of Uygur issue


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## Aepsilons

mycutegirl said:


> yeah,i know what you mean,the CCP's Uygur policy is half successful,they just reinforce controls of xinjiang,and failure to make Uygur integrate into the whloe chinese nation.
> but i dont think independence of xinjiang will be hanppened.
> both the views of HAN think Uygur and Uygur think HAN were never changed although it passed nearly 70years.this is the point of Uygur issue



I've never , not once, in my posts in this thread said that I believe Xinjiang should be given independence. I've voiced out for more enlightened approach to dealing with the Uighyur minority, stressing for more liberal policies that takes into consideration their muslim sensitivities. Unless you take these consideration, the problem will remain an issue. I've also stated that China can learn from some of the policies taken by Indonesia and Russia to build a culture of inclusivity and autonomy for said subject peoples. 

Please read into Russian economic developments into Chechnya, as well as autonomy. Please read into Indonesia's development in Banda Aceh, Aceh Province, into Irian Jaya. Two areas that have been hostile grounds and home to separatist groups, but have been developed by Jakarta.


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## Kyle Sun

Kaan said:


> The uyghurs don't like your mentality.



So you are okay with traditional Han food ?


----------



## Aepsilons

Kyle Sun said:


> So you are okay with traditional Han food ?



Traditional *han *food? 

There's so many kinds of Chinese food, bro. You want spicy, you get Sichuan style, if you want brothy you get Beijing style, if you want something as close to south east asian food, you get Cantonese style. 

I think the term you mean is "chinese food" ? I mean, even the concept of Chinese food is vast.


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## Jlaw

mycutegirl said:


> independence?i can say,chinese have 1000 ways force your country be disintegrating,but you have less one way make xinjiang independent.
> what is truth,the truth is so mang people here are giants of keyboard and dwarfs of reality.
> i dont want to talk how is Uigur,i have been to Urumchi when my friend gained a university of shanghai,she told me some inviting and blessedly stories about the event of 7.5 in 2009.
> i can say people here dont understand a real xinjiang.and they just judge according to media.
> everyone think HAN bully and oppress Uigur,just check the population growth of Uigur?and the Uigur policy.
> and what govt's wrong is that govt's given benifits is not Uigur' want.



Most Chinese know the western media is full of itself when it comes to Xinjiang. This Nihonjin guy thinks he knows Chinese society better than most of us Chinese posters who actually lives or lived in China.

Responding to him is just a waste of time. He's one of those 口蜜腹劍 type of people. 

Racial Discrimination: The Mitsubishi, Japan Case

*An Indian Worker Sues His Japanese Employer*

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## Hakan

Jlaw said:


> If it's the Uighur's owners money and he is risking his money in a business, he can hire whomever he thinks will be able to perform the best job.
> 
> Your analogy is not good. How does the Uighur know this Chinese man spits all the time if they just met for an interview, unless of course you Turk believe all older Chinese men spit all the time?


I think the analogy is pretty good because in both cases the employer sees the potential employees condition as an obstacle.



Kyle Sun said:


> So you are okay with traditional Han food ?



Yes if it is halal I would eat it.


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## Aepsilons

Jlaw said:


> Most Chinese know the western media is full of itself when it comes to Xinjiang. This Nihonjin guy thinks he knows Chinese society better than most of us Chinese posters who actually lives or lived in China.
> 
> Responding to him is just a waste of time. He's one of those 口蜜腹劍 type of people.
> 
> Racial Discrimination: The Mitsubishi, Japan Case
> 
> *An Indian Worker Sues His Japanese Employer*



Racial discrimination is an unfortunate circumstance for any organization, and in fact as a doctoral student who works in an academic environment that is richly intertwined with diversity initiative, I know very well the strengths diversity initiative provides in industry and in academia. A lot of research has provided information in how organizations that develop a culture of diversity can increase organizational effectiveness in conjunction with seminars that elucidates on cultural awareness. 

We live in a multicultural world, globalization has ensured the magnanimity of human interaction and sharing of information. This is why I am a firm believer of organizations to have a more sensitive approach in hiring individuals with rich background. A lot of service sectors provide services to clients who come from various backgrounds and having employees with such backgrounds may prove invaluable for the organization as a whole. Case in point: Google, Yahoo, Microsoft, Walmart, Kmart, Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Tata Motors etc. 

Lastly, my input merely provides my own conjecture , you make take it as a healthy point of view. Provision of constructive criticism doesn't necessarily have to be taken in such negative light, but should be received as a basis to build and improve upon. 



Kind Regards,
I remain
a Nihonjin


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## William Hung

KingMamba said:


> This thread shows that you do not really know them. Uighers were always Sufis if today they are salafists it is because the CCP failed to integrate them properly, you do not force people to integrate you give then reason to do so thenselves.



Can you provide credible sources about their Islam sects? any data on when they turned to salafism or wahabi and the population portion of this sect. I will admit my knowledge about Islam is limited, that's why I asked for inputs.



KingMamba said:


> The fact is first they cannot find work because they cannot speak Chinese then even if they learn Chinese they see signs saying hiring hans so what do you expect from them? They will remain in their traditional ways because they have no other option.



An honest question, have you lived in Xinjiang and seen it for yourself? or have you only read about these "oppressions and discriminations" propaganda from the Internet or heard it from a friend of a friend?


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## Kyle Sun

Kaan said:


> Yes if it is halal I would eat it.


The problem is traditional Han cuisine use pork , it is definitely not halal.


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## Hakan

Kyle Sun said:


> The poblem is traditional Han cuisine use pork , it is definitely not halal.


It can be replced with halal beef. 

Dont you guys have vegiterian food too?


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## William Hung

Nihonjin1051 said:


> The fact of the matter is that there will always be radical groups whenever a nation state rules various peoples of differing ethnic and religious origin. Indonesia had fought wars in suppressing terrorist organizations such as JI (Jeremiyyah Islamiyah) as well as separatist groups from Irian Jaya, and even in Aceh (Sumatra), and with an inclusive policy, the country has been progressive. In fact, there is a lot China can learn from Indonesia.
> 
> The point i'm foraying to you is that China can learn from a paradigm shift of authoritarian rule to a more inclusive 'enligthened' policies that are conducive for the Han majority as well as the ethnic minorities in the People's Republic.



So you are blaming the situation on the way the CCP rule. But why are there no terrorists or separatist groups from other minorities like the Hui or Zhuang? they are under the same rule of the CCP and some of the town they live in are even less developed than in Xinjiang. Under your logic, there will be "radicals" rising up from this situation and the CCP is to blame. But clearly this is not true in these area. No terrorism from these minority group at all. 

Your comparison between the Muslim in Xinjiang and the Muslim in Indonesia is silly. In Indonesia, they are the majority not minority. And the minority are discriminated there, like a non-muslim is not allowed to marry a Muslim. One human rights report I read said that minority religious group in some area are still getting murdered for no reason other than their religion. I don't think you can call that progressive lol.

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## Edison Chen

To use one to counter another? No...this will bring more issues. I don't want to see any religion conflicts in China.

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## Kyle Sun

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Traditional *han *food?
> 
> There's so many kinds of Chinese food, bro. You want spicy, you get Sichuan style, if you want brothy you get Beijing style, if you want something as close to south east asian food, you get Cantonese style.
> 
> I think the term you mean is "chinese food" ? I mean, even the concept of Chinese food is vast.


I mean most kinds of Chinese cuisine use pork or lard .No matter it is Sichuan or Beijing or some other city.


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## Edison Chen

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Traditional *han *food?
> 
> There's so many kinds of Chinese food, bro. You want spicy, you get Sichuan style, if you want brothy you get Beijing style, if you want something as close to south east asian food, you get Cantonese style.
> 
> I think the term you mean is "chinese food" ? I mean, even the concept of Chinese food is vast.



I watch 孤独のグルメ

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## Kyle Sun

Kaan said:


> It can be replced with halal beef.
> 
> Dont you guys have vegiterian food too?



If you cook yourself or you have personal chef , no problem .

We have vegiterian , but such kind of restaurant is not very popular.

Only a few big companies have halal chef , and it cost too much for small companies to hire halal chef for a few employee.

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## Aepsilons

Kyle Sun said:


> If you cook yourself or you have personal chef , no problem .
> 
> We have vegiterian , but such kind of restaurant is not very popular.
> 
> Only a few big companies have halal chef , and it cost too much for small companies to hire halal chef for a few employee.



Some employees can also bring food from home to work. For example, in my work place, one of the professors who teaches management always brings Indian food that his wife cooks for him. Also for me, I don't usually buy food at the college cafeteria, but rather bring food that I cook from my house.

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## Pakistanisage

ETIM is considered a terrorist organization in Pakistan and are being decimated presently in our Tribal areas of FATA.


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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> In the field of economics and business management this is called bias and preferential treatment. Not only is this unethical, but negates the organization's diversity initiative. Chinese companies should provide job opportunities for the minorities.



And you are talking from a super inclusionary Japanese society and business, right, my friend? 



Jlaw said:


> Most Chinese know the western media is full of itself when it comes to Xinjiang. This Nihonjin guy thinks he knows Chinese society better than most of us Chinese posters who actually lives or lived in China.
> 
> Responding to him is just a waste of time. He's one of those 口蜜腹劍 type of people.
> 
> Racial Discrimination: The Mitsubishi, Japan Case
> 
> *An Indian Worker Sues His Japanese Employer*



In fact, Japanese companies are famous for their xenophobic and sexist/ageist policies. Nihonjin is preaching for China what he does not believe in. Chinese companies will certainly go for whatever they think is profitable. We will not cry over some Uighur terrorist wannabes that feel discriminated. They can go and join the s 



Nihonjin1051 said:


> I am in agreement with this, it would be counterproductive if the Chinese security forces were to use profiling , in fact, the blanketed term of 'terrorist' could be used by Chinese security forces to commit heinous acts or even abuses on Uighyur peoples who may be innocent of crimes.



Anything that works in Washington, works in China.



atatwolf said:


> All China's neighbors will support independence of Uighur and Tibetans, including some Chinese regions that want to break free from Beijing too. I think Japan will have a great role in liberating these regions. Also India, Indonesia, Vietnam, Thai and other regional powers will have a say in this before the end.
> 
> Iron hand will only work so long. People will feel more and more alienated and only need one chance to brake free. Even some Chinese regions feel alienated from Beijing. I wouldn't be surprised if they show the hand to Beijing and do business with Japan.



I do honestly hope all Turks are on\ly as smart as you are. Together with your FM, it makes at least two. Good going.



Nihonjin1051 said:


> A referendum may will not be recognized by Beijing's authoritarian regime.



Just as Tokyo's right wing regime would not recognize a referendum on Okinawa.



atatwolf said:


> More strict control will make the situation even worse and accelate the brake up of East-Turkistan and Tibet.



That will not happen, we can assure you. But, as we speak, a new Kurdistan has born and is becoming a de jure state, doing business with other nations as a sovereign.

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## mycutegirl

Jlaw said:


> Most Chinese know the western media is full of itself when it comes to Xinjiang. This Nihonjin guy thinks he knows Chinese society better than most of us Chinese posters who actually lives or lived in China.
> 
> Responding to him is just a waste of time. He's one of those 口蜜腹劍 type of people.
> 
> Racial Discrimination: The Mitsubishi, Japan Case
> 
> *An Indian Worker Sues His Japanese Employer*


thanks,but no matter others how twist the truth,we chinese should spread positive energy and truth which we can free see and touch,while the foreigners can only read on the paper.
the west media like to propagate what they want to not what they real see.because what?because they dont want to see we chinese rise up and challenge their position.
so we can see so many people look chinese and china negatively,they can jump to conclusions against china without understanding the truth.they even not been to china,never talked with a chinese in reality.
as long as chinese make a mistake,they will overstate it.
so i dont expect a fair discuss,a chinese born without a fair appraising.
when we were weak,the west invaded us.when we rising up,they slander us.

the world's propagating is under the west's control,we should face the truth.in this fourm i feel ridiculous with some members,one day they come to xinjiang or shanghai,they will know what are chinese and how the hell is china.

for example,they say chinese in internet cant make free speachs,i invite they to chinese fourm"tianya""tieba",they can see how many people criticize the CCP,then they shut up.
they say chinese cant visit facebook,i tell him that chinese almost can use a VPN visit facebook,and we have a similar website"weibo"which is more convenient for chinese.and a chinese officer tell me why china govts do this?they said:govts dont want to limit chinese go out,and they just dont want "google""facebook"etc free into china,they want protect local chinese company,so today we can see"alibaba""qq""baidu""wechat"etc.
when the internet market is occupied by USA company,chinese internet company is rising up,i have to say this is a smart policy

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## Targon

Jlaw said:


> oh really? i never said anything or other real Chinese PDF members said anything about exterminating all Uighurs, but we will exterminate terrorists regardless of race.



I know what "terrorist" mean yeah, don't teach me that stuff I told you exactly same things happened here.

There is a minority of active violence supporters/fighters, and there is a majority who are not also happy with what you're doing but just don't want to involve in something dangerous, they have limited or no sympathy to actual terrorist, but if you realize they have some limited sympathy to them you will label them terrorists as well, those whoever has a bit of Uyghur nationalism or religious will be labelled seperatists/terrorists, you will only cause more moderate Uyghurs to join the violence, you think people you "exterminate" has no family, friends ?

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## Indos

Black Flag said:


> So you are blaming the situation on the way the CCP rule. But why are there no terrorists or separatist groups from other minorities like the Hui or Zhuang? they are under the same rule of the CCP and some of the town they live in are even less developed than in Xinjiang. Under your logic, there will be "radicals" rising up from this situation and the CCP is to blame. But clearly this is not true in these area. No terrorism from these minority group at all.
> 
> Your comparison between the Muslim in Xinjiang and the Muslim in Indonesia is silly. In Indonesia, they are the majority not minority. And the minority are discriminated there, *like a non-muslim is not allowed to marry a Muslim. One human rights report I read said that minority religious group in some area are still getting murdered for no reason other than their religion. I don't think you can call that progressive lol*.



Islam only allows Muslim women to be married by Muslim men. (for Muslim men there is an ease to marry Christian and Jews women/still disputable issue though). It is not a discrimination, it is religious aspect.

And Indonesia is better than USA and China in term of social harmony and peacefulness, of course we can bring such a lesson

Global Peace Index - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## TaiShang

*Over 380 arrested in terror crackdown*

*A*uthorities in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region announced Monday that *they arrested over 380 suspects and smashed 32 gangs in the first month of a year-long anti-terrorism campaign which started on May 23.* 

The Xinjiang Public Security Department said Monday at a press conference that among the arrested, *315 people linked to 120 terror-related cases had been convicted in open trials,* Wang Qianrong, the deputy head of the department, was quoted as saying by local news portal ts.cn. 

These cases involved *plotting and conducting terrorist attacks, spreading religious extremism, manufacturing guns and explosives, and illegally crossing international borders,* the Xinhua News Agency reported. 

The police also *confiscated about 100 computers and 1,700 books on terrorism and religious extremism during raids on 21 illegal preaching sites and training camps. A total of 264 explosive devices, 3.15 tons of explosives and 357 controlled knives have also been seized.* 

"The impact of the campaign is obvious when we look at the numbers," Turgunjan Tursun, a research fellow at the Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times. 

However, Tursun believes China's anti-terrorism efforts have become increasingly difficult due to the unorthodox nature of Xinjiang's terror groups. 

"Most terrorists in Xinjiang do not operate under structured and centralized organizations, but in small gangs loosely spread over the region," he said. 

*"The influence of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), the group often believed to be the mastermind behind most attacks in Xinjiang, is only limited to the ideological level, he noted. *

*"The attackers may have been exposed to religious and ethnic extremism through publications and videos the ETIM released, but the two groups are not in direct contact and do not operate under a hierarchical relationship,"* he said. 

Tursun said that *China is still weak when it comes to collecting intelligence from these scattered terrorist groups and lacks comprehensive and professional research into the field.* 

*Among the 32 extremist groups busted, 11 were found via public tip-offs.* Police also claimed that 96 percent of the 126 cases were identified and quashed before the attacks were launched. 

Yang Mingjie, an anti-terrorism expert with the China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations, told the Global Times that public vigilance is the most essential aspect of fighting terrorism. 

*"Not only can the public report suspicious people to stop possible attacks, they can also stop the spread of extremist ideas such as reporting underground lectures or training camps around their community,"* noted Yang. 

As part of the nationwide precautionary measures, some cities and provinces across the country, including Beijing and Henan, have recently announced reward schemes to encourage public tip-offs. *Harbin, in Northeast China's Heilongjiang Province, announced that residents who provide related information will receive a cash reward of up to 500,000 yuan ($80,300) from June 20.*

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## -SINAN-

More opression against Uyghurs.

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## rcrmj

kill all of those terrorists, leave world a better place

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## jkroo

Terrorists-lovers always comes in time.

Terrorist is terrorist. The dead is good to world.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Turkey do support terrorist movement. Shame on you.



Where is your evidence ??? Talk is cheap.... infact all you do is talk.

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## William Hung

Edison Chen said:


> To use one to counter another? No...this will bring more issues. I don't want to see any religion conflicts in China.



I don't mean it as a divide and conquer strategy. I mean introduce and fund other sects so that they have options other than the extremist ones. I mentioned that only pacifists/non-violent sects should be introduced so religious conflicts are minimised. There will be opposition from these sects but it will be non-violent. 

Since the extremist sects are still fragmented and not mature yet, there are still time to fund different sects to rival it. 

Plus some of these sects can ally with the central government and inform security official when they discover something. It will be cheaper and more efficient for the security investigators. Plus having uygjurs dealing with uygjurs mean that turks can't use the "Han oppression" propaganda.



Indos said:


> Islam only allows Muslim women to be married by Muslim men. (for Muslim men there is an ease to marry Christian and Jews women/still disputable issue though). It is not a discrimination, it is religious aspect.



There other laws that I've read that are outright discriminations. Covering it under a religious pretext does not make it less discriminatory. If Hitler transformed his Nazi ideology into a religion, your logic will imply that his action does not discriminates, it is just a "religious aspects".


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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> Where is your evidence ??? Talk is cheap.... infact all you do is talk.


You mean your talk is cheap right?
Go figure it out or prove your talk is cheap!
Exclusive: China releases terrorism evidence video

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## jkroo

rcrmj said:


> evidence? lol, look at how many Tujue descendants jumping around the idea of ETIM which is btw a brainless terrorist group```
> 
> here is a funny fact for you, most died innocent civilians from recent terrorist attacks in Xingjiang were Uighur, lol
> 
> indeed you are supporting those halfw1t terrorists who are killing their own kind
> 
> get a clue you brainwashed little brat lives in a delusion



The beast extremists kill our innocent Uyghur brothers and sisters and other people at random.

Wish those terrorist and terror-lovers go to hell.

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## chhota bheem

did they arrest the whole village

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> ı will watch this on evening. but i beat this just a report from biassed chinese media... we will see.
> 
> 
> 
> many idiot Chinese posters here as well. If you are seeing my support for uyghurs as a support for terrorists.
> 
> ıt shows how can a human being became so low. Don't refer *Uyghur nation *as terrorists you freaks.



Is this your true face?

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## Indos

Black Flag said:


> There other laws that I've read that are outright discriminations. Covering it under a religious pretext does not make it less discriminatory. If Hitler transformed his Nazi ideology into a religion, your logic will imply that his action does not discriminates, it is just a "religious aspects".



Why so resentful ? Cannot marry pretty Uighur women ?  Please marry your own kind... Many beautiful Chinese women in Mainland....... 





Uighur Women





Indonesian police women

Need to be Muslim if you want to marry them

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> Best solution is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invaders should leave *East Turkestan*.


LOL, Clown Turkey government will be enemy with angry China ?


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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Shamless, Turkey won't save any Uyghur terrorist in China XinJiang.
> There's no doubt oneday, China also will help freedom ppl in Cyprus and Kurdish region. China support Greece, Iran, Syria, Russia, Armenia.



Still saying "*Uyghur*" Terrorist. If there is a terrorist it is you.... 

And on the giving help to other people in the region.... be my guest.

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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> LOL, Clown Turkey government will be enemy with angry China ?



Yeah Angry Turkey government will be enemy with Clown China.. 

Why do you invlove governments and stuff... are you a Chinese FM or PM ???

I talk for myself here, nor my country nor my people.... it shows that you lack indivualism... a sheep from the pack.

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> Yeah Angry Turkey government will be enemy with Clown China..


LOL, EU bastard ... when u can cross through Syria + Iran + Russia, then China can consider ur advice.

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> When you compare with Chinese posters insults... they are nothing.
> 
> And i think it have something do with idiocy... i mean can't understand the things i said, getting things different everytime.... anyways i'm sorry, i shouldn't make fun of dumb people.


No, no, no. You are illogical or somehow ill-minded and check your words first.
Remember, when you point a finger to others there are four fingers point at yourself.

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> Still saying "*Uyghur*" Terrorist. If there is a terrorist it is you....
> 
> And on the giving help to other people in the region.... be my guest.


Let ur clown Turkey government beg China to releave Uyghur terrorists, or we can send all into Turkey.

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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> LOL, EU *bastard *... when u can cross through Syria + Iran + Russia, then China can consider ur advice.



@Hu Songshan 

This one is the third Chinese to insult me today...

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> No, no, no. You are illogical or somehow ill-minded and check your words first.
> Remember, when you point a finger to others there are four fingers point at yourself.



I checked myself and there is nothing wrong.... moving ahead...



cnleio said:


> Let ur clown Turkey government beg China to releave Uyghur terrorists, or we can send all into Turkey.



Terrorists are terrorists.. i won't argue about that

But you can't accuse a whole nation for terrorism... i will put this fact into thick skull of yours...

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> This one is the third Chinese to insult me today...


Remember my words, China will let Turkey get the same pains !!!


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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Remember my words, China will let Turkey get the same pains !!!



Aghhhh. so scared....

Not exactly... 

First educate yourself and learn how to properly communicate with people. Many of you guys lack this skill, do you grow up in cave or something ?

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> Aghhhh. so scared....
> 
> Not exactly...
> 
> First educate yourself and learn how to properly communicate with people. Many of you guys lack this skill, do you grow up in cave or something ?


Who care u ? 
Just let we see, how China will support Greece + Syria + Iran + Russia + Armenia, we will fight back.


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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> I checked myself and there is nothing wrong.... moving ahead...
> 
> 
> 
> Terrorists are terrorists.. i won't argue about that
> 
> But you can't accuse a whole *nation *for terrorism... i will put this fact into thick skull of yours...


Wrong wording. Ethnic is ok and no one treat the whole ethnic Uyghurs as terrorist and many Uyghur brothers and sisters are living good lives in China. There are too many delusions and stories in your mind. That's very bad.

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> Why are you saying Uyghur terrorists...............it is exactly the same thing as saying all the nation of uyghurs are terrorists.
> 
> We have PKK we refer them as terrorists, not Kurdish terrorist.
> 
> A terrorists have no race, religion ethnicity, color.. terrorist is terrorist.... and that is it. As long as i'm here i won't let you refer whole Uyghur nation as terrorists.


Did China ever care American double standards ? Who care ur Tureky's ? 
The person who murdered / killed innocent ppl in China, it's the terrorist and Chinese will get them a headshot.

China do not care ur bullsh!t, China will make u pay for ur sh!t.

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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Who care u ?
> Just let we see, how China will support Greece + Syria + Iran + Russia + Armenia, we will fight back.



So you are PM of China...  Nice to meet you.. can you kindly remove your troops from East Turkestan... or we have to came and remove your troops. And you won't like it a bit.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Wrong wording. Ethnic is ok and no one treat the whole ethnic Uyghurs as terrorist and many Uyghur brothers and sisters are living good lives in China. There are too many delusions and stories in your mind. That's very bad.



many people say "Uyghur terrorists" "We should kill all of the uyghurs" "we should kill their families" etc..

many chinese people are racist against Uyghurs and i feed up with it. They are our kin and they deserve to be treated as human beings.



cnleio said:


> Did China ever care American double standards ? Who care ur Tureky's ?
> The person who murdered / killed innocent ppl in China, it's the terrorist and Chinese will get them a headshot.
> 
> China do not care ur bullsh!t, China will make u pay for ur sh!t.



Spoken like a true terrorist state spokesman.... well done.

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> So you are PM of China...  Nice to meet you.. can you kindly remove your troops from East Turkestan... or we have to came and remove your troops. And you won't like it a bit.


Of course im not P.M, i just told u Chinese knew Turkey behind *East Turkestan *of separatist force in China XinJiang.
China will solve this problem, and deal with related nation who support Uighur separatism.

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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Of course im not P.M, i just told u Chinese knew Turkey behind *East Turkestan *of separatist force in China XinJiang.
> China will solve this problem, and deal with related nation who support Uighur separatism.



We will support Uyghurs... we didn't and not going to support any terrorist organization.

ıf you have proof put it on the table. ıf you don't have any... then keep your false accusations to yourself and don't make a noice as grown ups are talking here.

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## Armstrong

*To MyTurkish Brethren* - If you don't want others talking about an Independent Kurdistan carved out of Turkiye don't talk about an Independent East-Turkistan carved out of China !

Keep your land & let the Chinese keep their lands; Xinjiang is an Internationally recognized part of China & it will remain so !

Any terrorists activity either in the name of ethnicity or religion is an affront to Islam & must be crushed !

Like my Brother @Hu Songshan said earlier on - With the passage of time, with more socio-economic development in Xinjiang & with determination to deal with Terrorism - the problems in Xinjiang would be solved !

*To My Chinese Brethren* - This isn't about Islam vs Chinese Culture or Values otherwise the Hui Muslim who form the majority of Muslims in China would not be an absolutely peaceful & well integrated community of the Chinese Nation.

Furthermore these terrorists are being crushed as we speak in North Waziristan; perhaps you can impress upon your Government to talk to Afghanistan to deal with the terrorists who have found sanctuaries in Kunar, Nuristan & Khost !

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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Ur enemies r Chinese friends



Okay... go on picnic with your new friends.


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## TaiShang

Sinan said:


> Don't refer Uyghur nation as terrorists you freaks.



We will put a hole in the head of those terrorists and charge for the bullet. Any objection? You may foot the bill.



chhota bheem said:


> did they arrest the whole village



It is across the region. Total of one-month long campaign. 11 months to go.

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## xesy

Jlaw said:


> unskilled jobs are abundance. But many people want the quick money. It isn't going to happen.
> 
> 
> 
> Stop your lies brother. Do not equate the stuff that is happening in Vietnam to China.


I am just stating my thought on this because I disagree with your sentence "exterminate all terrorists regardless of race". This does not concern our nationalities. I am sure Vietnam also has problems with minority races, but they are either effectively supperessed or too few in number to pose a threat. Also US loves mocking Vietnam in human rights and stuffs, so we are ok with that. 

To you they might be terrorists, but to other Uighurs they could be looked up as heroes, freedom fighters, especially to those who wish to be independence but don't dare to take actions. If you wish to exterminate all those people, more Uighurs will oppose Chinese govt. And certainly China cannot kill until Uighurs give up, cause the casuality might be too high and the world will take actions against China.

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## -SINAN-

TaiShang said:


> We will put a hole in the head of those terrorists and charge for the bullet. Any objection? You may foot the bill.



What goes around comes around.....torture innocent childs and womens...... it is hard to refer you as a human being.


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## liall

cnleio said:


> LOL, Turkey support Uighur separatism and China can do more than u did in XinJiang.



WHat did turkey do in XinJiang? Sorry not really familiar with China and turkey's history


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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> many people say "Uyghur terrorists" "We should kill all of the uyghurs" "we should kill their families" etc..
> 
> many chinese people are racist against Uyghurs and i feed up with it. They are our kin and they deserve to be treated as human beings.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoken like a true terrorist state spokesman.... well done.



So find out and let Chinese fellow citizen criticize them first. Maybe we will find those false flaggers. Thank you in advance.

Again, no cheap talk please. What you said many Chinese people are racist against Uyghurs is something like cheap talk.

Frankly, you are living in your delusions and maybe addict something like dream of conquer the world ,saparatism, terrorism.

Please show me you are a rational person not extremist that deserve argument.

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## -SINAN-

liall said:


> WHat did turkey do in XinJiang? Sorry not really familiar with China and turkey's history



Ask Chinese, they are the ones , who accuses us... (also ask for evidence since they are all fake accusations)



jkroo said:


> So find out and let Chinese fellow citizen criticize them first. Maybe we will find those false flaggers. Thank you in advance.
> Again, no cheap talk please. What you said many Chinese people are racist against Uyghurs is something like cheap talk.
> Frankly, you are living in your delusions and maybe addict something like dream of conquer the world ,saparatism, terrorism.
> Please show me you are a rational person not extremist that deserve argue.



Heh, you just joined a few days ago... so you don't know the history in PDF.


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## katarabhumi

Black Flag said:


> So you are blaming the situation on the way the CCP rule. But why are there no terrorists or separatist groups from other minorities like the Hui or Zhuang? they are under the same rule of the CCP and some of the town they live in are even less developed than in Xinjiang. Under your logic, there will be "radicals" rising up from this situation and the CCP is to blame. But clearly this is not true in these area. No terrorism from these minority group at all.
> 
> Your comparison between the Muslim in Xinjiang and the Muslim in Indonesia is silly. *In Indonesia, they are the majority not minority. And the minority are discriminated there, like a non-muslim is not allowed to marry a Muslim. One human rights report I read said that minority religious group in some area are still getting murdered for no reason other than their religion. I don't think you can call that progressive* lol.



Friend, in some part of Indonesia where muslim are minorities, marrying a muslim or convert to Islam can also mean death.

I know a story for real.. Years ago, A women, a school teacher, converted to Islam, her family tortured her and forced her to abandon her faith but she refused, they wanted to kill her for that, so she had to run from home. My family found her in poor condition and saved her, later she married my cousin. She visited my house several times, that's when she told me her sad stories. Her father and brother still want her dead. 

This kind of story as well as the burning of mosques in muslim minority areas in Indonesia are never get through to mainstream media because they are not HOT and appealing unlike the ones about evil and bad muslims.

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> Ask Chinese, they are the ones , who accuses us... (also ask for evidence since they are all fake accusations)
> 
> 
> 
> Heh, you just joined a few days ago... so you don't know the history in PDF.



Wrong. Check my registration date.

The story context doesn't matter and a rational person's words always in line with his(her) behaviors.

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## cnleio

liall said:


> WHat did turkey do in XinJiang? Sorry not really familiar with China and turkey's history


The Turkey has a big Day-DREAM, A Great Turkey Empire crossing today Turkey - Central Asia - China XinJiang.

In the history They are the descendant of Turks. Thousand years ago China Han dystany ancient Chinese had faught with Turkic tribes in the West China, within hundreds years many Turkic started westward migration or military expand to the west.

In 20century, the Turkey dream the Great Turkey Empire and consider China Uigur as their bro, the reason is very funny they speak Turki, and support Uigur independence in China XinJiang.


Their Day-DREAM is simple, unify all speaking turkic nations and regions in Central Asia, including China Uygur. 

↓ The enemy of China and Russia, even American won't support it. 
They (Turkey) call Central Asia region speaking Turki as Western Turkestan, China XinJiang as Eastern Turkestan.

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## Jlaw

cnleio said:


> LOL, EU bastard ... when u can cross through Syria + Iran + Russia, then China can consider ur advice.


 
Turkey is not part of the EU. They want to be but was rejected by the other members.

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## Edison Chen

Jlaw said:


> Turkey is not part of the EU. They want to be but was rejected by the other members.



Unless Turkey doesn't support terrorism anymore, they won't be accepted.


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## Sanchez

There are two external elements that catalyses the Uighur problems of Xinjiang:
1, US and its allies that support or promote any activities which could weaken or trouble PR China Since 1949; Before that it was only Russia interested to grab Xinjiang into its own pocket.
2, SA or other strong "Islamic organizations" support and push twisted religious education and activities into Chinese Muslims, such as extremism or Jihad that weren't even heard of Chinese Muslims a decade ago.

More importantly, Chinese government failed to build a citizens' society and to treat all people equally. Instead, as many Chinese posters mentioned, minorities did enjoy certain previledge in their special regions. They are not forced to take obligatory education for their children, to follow all the laws for Hans, or to do anything for his/her country by average standards. Basically, a minority person could, many Uighurs do, live like a foreigner in China. They don't speak nor write Chinese, can't make a living outside their home region, and do not feel any citizenship of any country except for the religion or local society.

The solution for China's Uighurs is to educate and treat every Uighur like other citizens.


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## -SINAN-

Edison Chen said:


> Unless Turkey doesn't support terrorism anymore, they won't be accepted.



We support terrorism as much as China do.... fair ?


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## Sasquatch

Simple solution integration, other than that much can't be done. It's already past no return the Han population in Xinjiang is the majority 40-45% it's going to continue rising with migration as well by 2020 Han population will be 60%.


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## -SINAN-

Sanchez said:


> They are not forced to take obligatory education for their children,



As far as i know.

Uyghur Turks are pbliged take Chinese education for 12 years in boarded schools.

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## Sanchez

Sinan said:


> As far as i know.
> 
> Uyghur Turks are pbliged take Chinese education for 12 years in boarded schools.



FYI, China's obligatory education is 9 years.

BTW, I suggest that you use Turkic Uighur instead, as Uighurs are mixed ethnic group using an Altai/Turkic language. They aren't Turks!

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## -SINAN-

Sanchez said:


> FYI, China's obligatory education is 9 years.



Yes, the article i have read said the same thing but it recently got 12 years for the Uyghurs... and they are obliqued to attend boarding schools, seperated from their family to make them forget their language.

And you guys say, Uyghurs are happy in China.

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## Sanchez

Sinan said:


> Yes, the article i have read said the same thing but it recently got 12 years for the Uyghurs... and they are obliqued to attend boarding schools, seperated from their family to make them forget their language.



BS!


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## Grand Historian

Sinan said:


> And you guys say, Uyghurs are happy in China.


Go visit Xinjiang and converse with Uighurs there before making trollish claims.


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## -SINAN-

Grand Historian said:


> Go visit Xinjiang and converse with Uighurs there before making trollish claims.





Sanchez said:


> BS!



Full article but it is Turkish



> Çin’den Uygurlara şimdi de eğitimde asimilasyon uyguluyor
> Çin işgal altında tutuğu Doğu Türkistanda Doğu Türkistanlıları asimile etmek için Çince Eğitimi zorunlu hale getirdi.
> Çin’in Doğu Türkistan’da zorunlu eğitimi liseyi de kapsayacak şekilde 12 yıla çıkarması ve Çince eğitim verilen okullarda yatılı olarak okumayı zorunlu kılması Uygur Müslümanlarının tepkisine neden oldu. Washington merkezli Uygur-Amerika Derneği Başkan Yardımcısı ve eski Karamay Üniversitesi öğretim üyesi Dr. İlşat Hasan Müslüman Uygur Türklerinin Doğu Türkistan’da genç evlatlarını işgalci Çin yönetiminin pençesinden kurtarmaya çalıştığını ve bunun savaşını verdiğini söyledi.
> 
> *Çin işgal yönetimi Hoten merkezli güney vilayetlerinde yürüttüğü son askeri operasyonla birlikte 9 yıl olan zorunlu eğitimi, lise öğrenimini de kapsayacak şekilde 12 yıla çıkardığını açıkladı. Bu kararı 2015’te bütün bölgeyi kapsayacak şekilde yaygınlaştıracağını bildirdi. Çin ayrıca, lise öğrenimi esnasında öğrencilerin toplu olarak ve zorunlu şekilde yurtlarda kalacaklarını öğretim öğrenim ile ilgili her türlü giderlerinin ve beslenmelerinin de devletçe karşılanacağını bildirdi.*
> 
> Hür Asya Radyosuna konuşan Dr.Hasan, Çin işgal güçlerinin son Urumçi saldırısını bahane ederek Uygur Türklerinin çoğunlukta olduğu, Türk İslam kültürünün korunup yaşandığı Kaşgar, Aksu, Yarkent, Kuçar gibi güney vilayetlerinde Hoten merkezli başlattığı “Terörle Mücadele Operasyonu” ile birlikte 9 yıl olan zorunlu eğitimin liseyi de kapsayacak şekilde 12 yıla çıkarılması kararı hakkında görüşlerini açıkladı.
> 
> Çin yönetiminin esas amacının Uygurları eğitmek olmadığını, bu kararın tamamen siyasi ve asimilasyon amaçlı olduğunu belirten Hasan, ailelerince büyük maddi fedakarlıklar yapılarak ve onbinlerce yen masraf edilerek okutulan Uygur gençlerinin Çinlilerin oturduğu ücra köylerde ancak, kendilerine güvenilmedikleri için silahsız yardımcı polis yapıldıklarını da belirtti.
> 
> Üniversite tamamlamış Uygur gençlerin işsizliğe mahkum edildiklerini ifade eden Dr. Hasan sözlerini şöyle tamamladı:
> “Aileler çocuklarını Çince öğretim yapan okullara vermek yerine kendi yanlarında tutmak istiyorlar. Ailelerinin yanında kalan Çocuklar onların işlerine yardımcı olduklarının yanında Uygur Türk dilini örf adetlerini, ahlak ve faziletini en önemlisi mukaddes İslam dinini aile bireylerinden öğreniyorlar ve Müslüman Uygur Türk terbiyesi ile yetişiyorlar. Açıkçası asimile olmaktan korunmuş oluyorlar. Çin yönetimi Uygurların eğitim seviyelerini yükseltmek istiyorsa ve bunda samimi ise, öncelikli olarak bu kampanyaya sarf edecekleri bütçenin bir kısmını Uygur Türkçesi ile eğitim veren okulların tamiri ve şartlarının iyileştirilmesi için harcasınlar. Eğitimin kalitesini yükseltsinler. Bugün binlerce Üniversiteli Uygur genci sokaklarda boş gezmekte, ekonomik ve psikolojik sorunlar yaşamakta. Bunların gelecekleri karartılmakta ve ümitsizliğe itilmektedirler. Bunların yerine Çin’den getirilen etnik Çinliler her kademedeki Çinli yöneticilerin etnik ayırımcılık yapması ve kayırması ile öncelikli olarak ve anında işe yerleştirilmektedir.
> 
> Doğu Türkistan’ı Çinli göçmenler istila etmiş durumda. Çin yönetimi eğer bölgede istikrarı sağlamak ve herkesin huzur içinde yaşamasını temin etmek istiyorsa, öncelikli olarak bölgenin tarihi gerçek sakinleri ve sahipleri olan Uygurlara de Çinli göçmenlere tanıdığı hakları tanımalıdır. Adil ve eşit davranmalıdır. Ayrıca, Çin yasalarına da aykırı olan bu etnik ayırımcılığa en kısa zamanda son vermelidir.”

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## Hakan

Hu Songshan said:


> Simple solution integration, other than that much can't be done. It's already past no return the Han population in Xinjiang is the majority 40-45% it's going to continue rising with migration as well by 2020 Han population will be 60%.


What does integration mean in your opinion?

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## sovcomflot

Black Flag said:


> That is good but I'm talking specifically about Islamic education where the government should actively introduce a pacifist Islamic sect to counter the other extremist sect. Right now, I think they only monitor (and sometime regulate) the Islamic schools in Xinjiang but they need to introduce something new to actively rival it.



Ahmaddiyya or ismaili shia are very peaceful


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## Sasquatch

Kaan said:


> What does integration mean in your opinion?



Becoming apart of Chinese society, learning Chinese, opening their communities up instead of keeping them closed off both the( radicalism exists in Uighur Society) Kazakh, Tajiks, Hui in Xinjiang are doing that while maintaining their traditions and religion. Right now the CPC is allowing Uighur language in schools I'm not opposed to it but they will need to learn Chinese for high quality jobs. The Government now is spending millions on this integrating the Uighurs. 

Xinjiang is at the crossroads of development and modernization, Oil and Gas finds and development, trade with Central Asia countries and a possible Oil pipeline from Pakistan to Xinjiang, this is bringing more migrants to Xinjiang from all of China and the Han population in Xinjiang will rise even further. There is no way Han, Hui, Kazakhs, or Tajiks are going to leave Xinjiang with these opportunities, if the Uighurs don't they will not benefit from these and become poorer.

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## Hakan

Hu Songshan said:


> Becoming apart of Chinese society, learning Chinese, opening their communities up instead of keeping them closed off both the( radicalism exists in Uighur Society) Kazakh, Tajiks, Hui in Xinjiang are doing that while maintaining their traditions and religion. Right now the CPC is allowing Uighur language in schools I'm not opposed to it but they will need to learn Chinese for high quality jobs. The Government now is spending millions on this integrating the Uighurs.
> 
> Xinjiang is at the crossroads of development and modernization, Oil and Gas finds and development, trade with Central Asia countries and a possible Oil pipeline from Pakistan to Xinjiang, this is bringing more migrants to Xinjiang from all of China and the Han population in Xinjiang will rise even further. There is no way Han, Hui, Kazakhs, or Tajiks are going to leave Xinjiang with these opportunities, if the Uighurs don't they will not benefit from these and become poorer.



*Will integration allow them to fast while at work the same as millions of other muslims do everyday in ramadan?*

"The Chinese Medicine Hospital in Yining, also known as Ghulja, a city in the traditionally Uighur province of East Turkestan (Xinjiang), has asked its Muslim staff not to fast this Ramadan “in order not to affect normal work and life.”

Sina Weibo reported that the county’s health department had made the request just three weeks before fasting for the Islamic holy month is due to begin on June 28 [2014].

Being asked to sign a pledge of compliance in a “responsibility book,” the Sina Weibo website published photographs hospital staff members of ethnic minority background, mainly female nurses, sitting in front of two large tables with their hands folded.

The region's native Uighur Muslims, an ethnic Turkic people, are likely to be offended by the request. They already blame curbs on Uighur religion and culture by the Han Chinese Communist Party for rising ethnic tensions in the region."

UNPO: East Turkestan: Muslim Hospital Staff Face Ramadan Discrimination

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## Sasquatch

Kaan said:


> *Will integration allow them to fast while at work the same as millions of other muslims do everyday in ramadan?*
> 
> "The Chinese Medicine Hospital in Yining, also known as Ghulja, a city in the traditionally Uighur province of East Turkestan (Xinjiang), has asked its Muslim staff not to fast this Ramadan “in order not to affect normal work and life.”
> 
> Sina Weibo reported that the county’s health department had made the request just three weeks before fasting for the Islamic holy month is due to begin on June 28 [2014].
> 
> Being asked to sign a pledge of compliance in a “responsibility book,” the Sina Weibo website published photographs hospital staff members of ethnic minority background, mainly female nurses, sitting in front of two large tables with their hands folded.
> 
> The region's native Uighur Muslims, an ethnic Turkic people, are likely to be offended by the request. They already blame curbs on Uighur religion and culture by the Han Chinese Communist Party for rising ethnic tensions in the region."
> 
> UNPO: East Turkestan: Muslim Hospital Staff Face Ramadan Discrimination



Yes restrictions and discrimination will be eliminated as the government is working hard now to integrate Uighurs.

Also I suggest not to feed trolls.

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## Hakan

Hu Songshan said:


> Yes restrictions and discrimination will be eliminated as the government is working hard now to integrate Uighurs.
> 
> Also I suggest not to feed trolls.


We have to wait and see how everything goes. Right now it doesn't look to pretty.


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## -SINAN-

Kaan said:


> *Will integration allow them to fast while at work the same as millions of other muslims do everyday in ramadan?*
> 
> "The Chinese Medicine Hospital in Yining, also known as Ghulja, a city in the traditionally Uighur province of East Turkestan (Xinjiang), has asked its Muslim staff not to fast this Ramadan “in order not to affect normal work and life.”
> 
> Sina Weibo reported that the county’s health department had made the request just three weeks before fasting for the Islamic holy month is due to begin on June 28 [2014].
> 
> Being asked to sign a pledge of compliance in a “responsibility book,” the Sina Weibo website published photographs hospital staff members of ethnic minority background, mainly female nurses, sitting in front of two large tables with their hands folded.
> 
> The region's native Uighur Muslims, an ethnic Turkic people, are likely to be offended by the request. They already blame curbs on Uighur religion and culture by the Han Chinese Communist Party for rising ethnic tensions in the region."
> 
> UNPO: East Turkestan: Muslim Hospital Staff Face Ramadan Discrimination



Did you knew that Chinese authoroties prevented Uyghur Turks from attending Friday prayers in a mosque...there was a photo in Turkic World thread if you are eager to dig up.

I mean ramadan should be least of your worries.

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## Kyle Sun

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Some employees can also bring food from home to work. For example, in my work place, one of the professors who teaches management always brings Indian food that his wife cooks for him. Also for me, I don't usually buy food at the college cafeteria, but rather bring food that I cook from my house.


That 's a way to go for senior officer .

But most of the young guys work in factory , not behind desk , on a assembly line. 

They do not have time to reheat their food.


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## Snomannen

Sinan said:


> Best solution is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Invaders should leave *East Turkestan*.



Yes so Uyghurs will have to leave from northern Xinjiang where other ethnics such as Han, Hui, Kazakh have been settled there much earlier than them.

Not to mention the capital of Xinjiang -Ürümqi was orginally a city of Han and Hui.

It was a bad idea that the ruler of QIng Dynasty allowed the ancestors of Uyghurs immigrated to northern Xinjiang from southern Xinjiang.

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## sahaliyan

KirovAirship said:


> Yes so Uyghurs have to leave from northern Xinjiang where other ethnics such as Han, Hui, Kazakh have been settled there much earlier than them.
> 
> Not to mention the capital of Xinjiang -Ürümqi was orginally a city of Han and Hui.
> 
> It was a bad idea that the ruler of QIng Dynasty allowed the ancestors of Uyghurs immigrated to northern Xinjiang from southern Xinjiang.


Ürümqi was the city of Hans(include Chinese muslims) and Manchus,the Manchu part of this city named as Gongning(巩宁）


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## jkroo

I found there are many threads about counter Xinjiang terrorist. So I do the dirty work to collect it. Hope it will help.

Exclusive: China releases terrorism evidence video

China releases videos showing evidence of terror attacks

11 'terrorists' killed in new Xinjiang unrest, China says

Kunming terrorist attack suspects captured

Five stabbed to death in latest Chinese knife attack

Turkestan Islamic Party Expresses Support for Kunming Attack

Explosion occurs at Xinjiang railway station

Uighur terrorism is going global

https://defence.pk/threads/china-told-to-make-territorial-foes-pay-‘unaffordable-price’.313915/

Explosion occurred near a park in Urumqi

Nine terrorists face death in Xinjiang

Police bust 9 terrorist groups in Xinjiang

XinJiang Three terrorists beat by citiznes in chess room, Two died and One serious injury

Over 380 arrested in XinJiang in terror crackdown

Xinjian:13 terrorists shot dead, 3 polices injured lightly

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## rcrmj

Sinan said:


> What goes around comes around.....torture innocent childs and womens...... it is hard to refer you as a human being.


torturing innocent child and women are your terrorists friends' field, civilized world has nothing to do with it

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## Grand Historian

Sinan said:


> More opression against Uyghurs.


This is exactly why you are a troll,you refuse to acknowledge Uighur terrorism and instead you blame the government.

Trolls such as you always make up strawmen about Chinese saying this or saying that.

How would you like it if Chinese members judged all Turkish PDF members by atawolf's posts?

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## -SINAN-

rcrmj said:


> torturing innocent child and women are your terrorists friends' field, civilized world has nothing to do with it



Your slanders won't change the truth.


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## Armstrong

This is still going on ! 

Come on people - Change the Topic & stop raising each other's blood pressure !


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## xunzi

Sinan said:


> So you are PM of China...  Nice to meet you.. can you kindly remove your troops from East Turkestan... or we have to came and remove your troops. And you won't like it a bit.


You are more than welcome to come and face our PEOPLE LIBERATION ARMY. We will be ready and prepare for your troop.

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## -SINAN-

Grand Historian said:


> This is exactly why you are a troll,you refuse to acknowledge Uighur terrorism and instead you blame the government.



You have no right to say Uyghur terrorism.. You should say ETIM terrorism.. and me not acknoledging terrorism is just an other lie of yours.



Grand Historian said:


> Trolls such as you always make up strawmen about Chinese saying this or saying that.


You guys brand people as troll, when you have no arguments left and beaten in a conversation. So call me anything you like, i won't care.




Grand Historian said:


> How would you like it if Chinese members judged all Turkish PDF members by atawolf's posts?


It would be dumb. But Atatwolf is just one person where as i have seen similar attitute from various Chinese posters, many will back me on this.

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## xunzi

If we ever found concrete evidence that Turkey is the mastermind behind separatist movement, we will have a real response.

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## sweetgrape

Sinan said:


> many people say "Uyghur terrorists" "We should kill all of the uyghurs" "we should kill their families" etc..
> 
> many chinese people are racist against Uyghurs and i feed up with it. They are our kin and they deserve to be treated as human beings.


Innocent Uyghurs in China created and live well.
You say Uyghurs is your kin, for me, they are all Chinese.

I don't care whether they are you kin, or My kin, if they do terrorism thing, they deserve to be arrested, when they kill and damage others, where are you? you don't condemn the terrorist, but here condemn Chinese arresting them, Why? Because they are you kin, don't talk bullsh!t here, your sympathy to the terrorist just because they are your kin disgust me, who care whether they are you kin, they hurt others, violate the law, they will be punished for their illegal behavior.





Sinan said:


> There are some members here that needs a good spanking. No worries, i will make them better human beings.


Hehe, better human beings?! spanking?! hehe.




Sinan said:


> I can give you one.  You promise to invade Turkey ?


Invade Turkey? why we need that, we just killing you terrorist and separatist kin, that's it.

Welcome you come to china help your terrorist kin.

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## xunzi

Sinan said:


> I can give you one.  You promise to invade Turkey ?


It is impossible as our people liberation army have to march over several sovereign countries to do that. I think you understand my message. You play dirty with us and you know full well we can play dirty with you We have the weapons and money to do what we want like our American CIA friends. Don't take our non-intervention policy too lightly. Consider that a god-given gift to the world that we have a non-intervention policy.

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## Götterdämmerung

Best solution for Xinjiang is fight with iron fist against terrorism so the ordinary people of all ethnics can live peacefully together.

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## xunzi

Sinan said:


> This one is touched in the head i guess.


You underestimate our resolve to protect our territorial integrity. The one thing we said we would never compromise is territorial integrity. It is our NUMBER ONE national priority. Anything else is negotiable EXCEPT our territorial integrity! Our 2 million strong army and hundred million upon call up will be ready to face any forces that dare challenging our territorial integrity.

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## -SINAN-

@sweetgrape @xunzi

ıf i continue this stance, i think people will accuse me of trolling. So either come at me by solid arguments or don't talk at all.
Using insults or videos, is not a great way to debate. If you are inadequate don't trash the topic and let your seniors to do the job.

In short go play in your sandboxes kids.


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## Sasquatch

Stick to the topic please.


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## TaiShang

Citizen awareness is the key to fight terrorism and eventually root it out.


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## itaskol

well done， well done


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## jkroo

@Sinan

Please argue in a civilized manner. There are too much cheap words come from your mouth. 

Don't act like you are the only person who grasp the truth. That's stupid. Just stop.

Could you please call your Turkey friends to this thread as possible as you can. I just want to ask Turks some questions that I think it's do good to the communications.

1. Do you people really support those terrorists from Xinjiang (mind and behavior)? YES/NO

2. What is the connection between Turks and our Uyghur people including some terrorists.

3. Do your government have the history of support the terrorist groups? YES/NO

4. Do you people think Turkey is the most important power and strategy player in the world? YES/NO

5. What do you think and the reasons when EU rejected Turkey to join EU.

6. What do you think about Kurds and ISIS and your target?

7. What's your opinions about the relationship of China and Turkey.

8. Are there any possible to clear the misunderstanding between both people and how?

9. What's your positive contribution to Pakistan and our fellow Uyghurs people?

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## Jlaw

Sinan said:


> many people say "Uyghur terrorists" "We should kill all of the uyghurs" "we should kill their families" etc..
> 
> many chinese people are racist against Uyghurs and i feed up with it. They are our kin and they deserve to be treated as human beings.
> 
> 
> 
> .


 
You are fed up with terrorists being captured and killed? If you support terrorism against humanity, join them and see what fates await you.



xunzi said:


> It is impossible as our people liberation army have to march over several sovereign countries to do that. I think you understand my message. You play dirty with us and you know full well we can play dirty with you We have the weapons and money to do what we want like our American CIA friends. Don't take our non-intervention policy too lightly. *Consider that a god-given gift to the world that we have a non-intervention policy*.


 
But that will change.in the future.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> @Sinan
> 
> Please argue in a civilized manner. There are too much cheap words come from your mouth.
> 
> Don't act like you are the only person who grasp the truth. That's stupid. Just stop.
> 
> Could you please call your Turkey friends to this thread as possible as you can. I just want to ask Turks some questions that I think it's do good to the communications.



I'm always open for a creative discussion. let's begin answering the questions.




jkroo said:


> 1. Do you people really support those terrorists from Xinjiang (mind and behavior)? YES/NO


No



jkroo said:


> 2. What is the connection between Turks and our Uyghur people including some terrorists.


We are very nationalist people, we deeply care about all the Turkics around the world. Leaving aside terrorist.... no Turk will show any mercy over a terrorist regardless of his ethnicity or religion.



jkroo said:


> 3. Do your government have the history of support the terrorist groups? YES/NO


A simple answer won't cut this. Let me explain.

There was a terror organization group named ASALA. Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They targetted and killed many Turkish diplomats. Conducted terrorist attacks.

Turkish deep government which can be described as Turkish Gladio. Formed a group named "Grey Wolfs" from Ultranationalist Turks Grey Wolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Members of the Grey Wolves scattered to foreign cities... In one night Grey Wolves killed all of the leaders of ASALA terror organization in a simultaneous attack over the different cities in the world. Hence ASALA literally finished that night.

After that attack... some of the members gone rogue... they killed Turkish Journalist, Politicians and Activist from left wing parties. Some of them became notorious mafia.
Some of their activities

The Grey Wolves became the first foreign militant organization to participate in PLO training in Lebanon.
On a global scale, the Grey Wolves are suspected to have been responsible for numerous political assassinations and disappearances of Turkish and Kurdish human rights activists, and are known to have ties with the Turkish mafia.
The Grey Wolves have also raised funds for Chechen guerrilla separatists, whom they consider their brothers.
In 1996 the Grey Wolves were involved in an attack on a protest of Greek Cypriots against the occupation of Cyprus and in the murder of Tasos Isaac.One protester, Tasos Isaac, was beaten to death.
In December 1996, the Grey Wolves attacked left-wing students and teachers at Istanbul University, under police sanction.
To conclude, it's believed that Grey Wolves had been given support from _government_ until the ASALA assasinations. After that assasination, they got out of control and gone completely rogue and harmed Turkey in various ways.

Other than that we had never given any terrorist group any support.



jkroo said:


> 4. Do you people think Turkey is the most important power and strategy player in the world? YES/NO


No.



jkroo said:


> 5. What do you think and the reasons when EU rejected Turkey to join EU.


EU didn't rejected Turkey and we are still a candidate country. We are doing some chapters for membership.

But... we all know that EU won't let us join the union. Reason is very simple. EU is being ruled with France-Germany coalition. because of their combined citizen number (somewhere near 150 million.)
If Turkey enters EU a very possible Turkey-UK coalition will end France-Germany hegomony over Europe. Hence France-Germany opposes our cadidate whereas UK supports us.



jkroo said:


> 6. What do you think about Kurds and ISIS and your target?


Kurds are our brothers, we lived peacefully together on these lands for 1000 years.
ISIS are takfiri terorists which poses a great danger to regions stability. They must be eradicated.



jkroo said:


> 7. What's your opinions about the relationship of China and Turkey.


If we took aside Uyghur Issue.

I appreciate China very much. China helped us with ToT in many military projects whereas our so-called Western allies tried to hinder us from gaining ToT.



jkroo said:


> 8. Are there any possible to clear the misunderstanding between both people and how?


maybe, i don't know.....



jkroo said:


> 9. What's your positive contribution to Pakistan and our fellow Uyghurs people?



Pakistan is our brother state. We are have very good relations with them. They have our support.

For Uyghurs... there is not much we can do for the Uyghurs from the other side of the planet... I think we should ease up the immigration on Uyghurs and welcome them in our country.



Jlaw said:


> You are fed up with terrorists being captured and killed? If you support terrorism against humanity, join them and see what fates await you.



You can kill all of the terrorists, good keep doing that. But opression of our Uyghur kin is a different issue.

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## Grand Historian

Sinan said:


> You have no right to say Uyghur terrorism.. You should say ETIM terrorism.. and me not acknoledging terrorism is just an other lie of yours.


You are just angry that Uighur can be terrorists.



Sinan said:


> You guys brand people as troll, when you have no arguments left and beaten in a conversation. So call me anything you like, i won't care.


Your attempts to backpedal are futile.

1.You posted a flag of East Turkestan.
2.You blame the tensions on the governement.
3.You make strawmen arguments about all Chinese saying genocidial comments about Uihgurs
4.You haven't stepped foot in Xinjiang yet you claim you can speak for all Uighurs.
5.You refuse to acknowledge evidence ie genetic studies
6.You constantly rant on your Turkishness and your supposed blood ties with Uighurs.
7.You claim that Xinjiang is the native land of Uighurs.



Sinan said:


> It would be dumb. But Atatwolf is just one person where as i have seen similar attitute from various Chinese posters, many will back me on this.


A vague conception that all Chinese members hate Uighurs etc. is not going to justify your trollish behaviors.

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## -SINAN-

Grand Historian said:


> You are just angry that Uighur can be terrorists.



As i stated at least 10 times before all over different threads.
"Terrorism has no nationality, no religion, no color, no race."

I stated this numerous times.... and here goes your assumption down the drain.



Grand Historian said:


> Your attempts to backpedal are futile.


I am standing behind on every word i have said so far.



Grand Historian said:


> 1.You posted a flag of East Turkestan.


Which represents my Uyghur kin.

Here is another beatiful pic for you. Which resembles or strong ties with our brothers.










Grand Historian said:


> 2.You blame the tensions on the governement.


Yeap.



Grand Historian said:


> 3.You make strawmen arguments about all Chinese saying genocidial comments about Uihgurs


And you give excuses.



Grand Historian said:


> 4.You haven't stepped foot in Xinjiang yet you claim you can speak for all Uighurs.


So no one can stand up for Uyghur if they have not visited them in their home region ?

I have not stepped in Iraq but i defend the rights of Iraqi Turkmens
I have not stepped in Iran but i defend the right of South Azerbaijanis
I have not stepped in Cyprus but i defend the rights of Cyprotic Turks
I have not stepped in Ukraine but i defend the rights of Crimean Tatars.

I don't need permission from anyone to support my kin.



Grand Historian said:


> 5.You refuse to acknowledge evidence ie genetic studies


You evaded to discuss the subject with my more knowledgeable friends. First discuss with them then come and say these words to me.



Grand Historian said:


> 6.You constantly rant on your Turkishness and your supposed blood ties with Uighurs.


So, what ? We are nationalist people and proud with our Turkic blood.



Grand Historian said:


> 7.You claim that Xinjiang is the native land of Uighurs.


When did you invade East Turkistan ?



Grand Historian said:


> A vague conception that all Chinese members hate Uighurs etc. is not going to justify your trollish behaviors.



Not all but most of them.

I know you are frustrated as you can't present your case with valid arguments and i'm whooping the floor with you. So you are accusing me with trolling. Go out and take some fresh air. Your frustration will ease up.

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## terranMarine

It's a good thing we hunt down these terrorists by arresting Uyghurs who might have any connections or are connected to the terrorist group. We don't need permission from some Turk cracking down on Chinese method on handling domestic issues regarding public safety.

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## -SINAN-

terranMarine said:


> t's a good thing we hunt down these terrorists by arresting Uyghurs who might have any connections or are connected to the terrorist group. We don't need permission from some Turk cracking down on Chinese method on handling domestic issues regarding public safety.





> Authorities in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region announced Monday that they arrested over 380 suspects and smashed 32 gangs in the first month of a year-long anti-terrorism campaign which started on May 23.
> 
> The Xinjiang Public Security Department said Monday at a press conference that among the arrested, 315 people linked to 120 terror-related cases had been convicted in open trials, Wang Qianrong, the deputy head of the department, was quoted as saying by local news portal ts.cn.



380 suspects, 315 arrested, i really wonder what happened to those 65 people....news doesn't say they have been released.


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## Jayanta

Armstrong said:


> This is still going on !
> 
> Come on people - Change the Topic & stop raising each other's blood pressure !




Innocent Muslims being targeted.....had this move been in US, UK or India you would be head over heels accusing these countries. But as you guys are CHinese fan boys you keep silent even though you claim to be brothers with Turkey. This is where true color is exposed.


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## Armstrong

Jayanta said:


> Innocent Muslims being targeted.....had this move been in US, UK or India you would be head over heels accusing India. But as you guys are CHinese fan boys you keep silent even though you claim to be brothers with Turkey. This is where true color is exposed.


 
I have never....not once condemned Indian atrocities against her own Muslim Population - Whether they flourish or whether they are whipped out is something I don't give a foOk about ! 

Kashmir is a different issue - Its not India ! 

And whenever Pakistanis have ever mentioned Indian Muslims its usually in response to the expression of nauseating pious sentiments of Indians when they, in their self-righteousness, feel the need to lecture Pakistan on her minorities !

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## GreenFalcon



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## Jayanta

Armstrong said:


> I have never....not once condemned Indian atrocities against her own Muslim Population - Whether they flourish or whether they are whipped out is something I don't give a foOk about !
> 
> Kashmir is a different issue - Its not India !
> 
> And whenever Pakistanis have ever mentioned Indian Muslims its usually in response to the expression of nauseating pious sentiments of Indians when they, in their self-righteousness, feel the need to lecture Pakistan on her minorities !



Neither is Xinjiang....it existed as an independent country...East Turkestan until China annexed it in 1949. So if Xinjiang is an integral part of China ....J&K is Indian and Balochistan Pakistani....but if J&K is disputed so is Xinjiang and Balochistan.


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## Armstrong

Jayanta said:


> Neither is Xinjiang....it existed as an independent country...East Turkestan until China annexed it in 1949.


 
You mean when the Soviets backed Separatists in Xinjiang from '43 to '49 to sell the idea of an Independent Uighur State that had been a part of China or Chinese Empires since the Tang Dynasty ?

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## Jayanta

Armstrong said:


> You mean when the Soviets backed Separatists in Xinjiang from '43 to '49 to sell the idea of an Independent Uighur State that had been a part of China or Chinese Empires since the Tang Dynasty ?



If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.


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## terranMarine

Jayanta said:


> If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
> Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
> Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.



What's modern era? At the time of Emperor Qin it was considered modern times, at the time of Tang Dynasty it was considered modern times, at the time of Ming Dynasty it was considered modern times. Xinjiang has been part of China since Tang Dynasty now what are you going to do about it? Don't like it? Why don't you go support terrorists and help them separate Xinjiang rather sitting comfortably at home typing at your desk criticizing China for occupying Xinjiang. You seem OK with Europeans occupying Australia and America don't ya?

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Why don't you go support terrorists and help them separate Xinjiang rather sitting comfortably at home typing at your desk criticizing China for occupying Xinjiang.



That's the fate awaiting for the terrorists and terrorist-lovers. And protection for the good citizens of China regardless of their historical background, creed, religion, and local language.

Enjoy the beating.

*Inside look at China’s Special Police gear (Global Times)*

Many Chinese mainland cities, such as Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, have strengthened their counter-terrorism efforts by deploying armed police in heavily-trafficked areas since May.

Special police specially trained for hostage and terrorist situations are armed to the teeth, equipped with more than 300,000 yuan ($48,150) in gear weighing no less than 15 kilograms, according to a report of Hong Kong-based Wen Wei Po.

Below are brief introductions and photos of the weaponry, armor and equipment carried by China’s special police forces.

* Special Police Equipment*

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## Nan Yang

Jayanta said:


> If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
> Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
> Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.




Please provide source.
India never rule over Malaysia, Indonesia nor Cambodia. Do not equate Hindu influence as ruling.

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## Snomannen

Jayanta said:


> If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
> Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
> Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.



Mongolia is not even the heir of Yuan Dynasty.

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## Armstrong

Jayanta said:


> If you want to use Tang dynasty as the benchmark for China's occupation of Xinjiang...
> Tang dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Judging by that century map....most of Afghanistan and Pakistan should be Indian territory. So should be Malaysia, Cambodia, Indonesia etc. It's modern era...one cannot claim a territory based on Medieval era rulers. The world map would look way different if you set 700 AD as the benchmark for world map.
> Why not take a step back and imagine Mongolia claiming parts of China and Russia citing Chengiz Khan....Greece claiming areas up to India citing Alexander the great.


 
Most of Afghanistan & Pakistan was British Indian territory & before that the Mughal Empire which would arguably give Turkiye rights over it least of all India ! 

Furthermore I did not say based on the Tang Dynasty - I said 'since' the Tang its been a part of China & only in '43-'49 did Soviet backed Separatists proclaimed a free Uighur Country before they were crushed & Chinese territory reclaimed by China !


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## jkroo

Thank you for your response. I just try to propose these questions to learn more about your people.

#1 It's weired that your PM Erdogan has the history of support terrorist attack and criticize China government. That's why I propose this problem.
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Turkey attacks China 'genocide'
Something you people maybe don't know is that Uyghurs are free to move around all Chinese territory. Around 1% of Uyghurs lived outside Xinjiang for hundred years. There are Uyghurs living in Hunan - a Chinese central province from Ming dynasty. There are Han living in Xinjiang for thousands years. There are ethnic Han&Mongol lived in Uzbekistan and other central asia countries for more than 700 years.

Actually, we have more closer ties with Uyghurs than your people. But I am also glad that you call Uyghurs as kin. Frankly, this is something like historic bitterness or sadness. You know we both have historic connections such as Qin dynasty, Sui dynasty, Tang dynasty, Song dynasty, Yuan dynasty and Ming dynasty. Even 60 years ago, we fight a war in Korean peninsula.

As I know, there are only Turkey and Al Qaeda publicly support these kind of activities(You can find these points from BBC news site). I know there are around 30 thousand ethnic Uyghur Turks and many of them support their own people without any reasons. I only hope you people don't support your terrorist kin. If you think it's inevitable then just do it and I still believe the history will repeatedly occurs.


#5 I think there are some discrimination and historic issues involved. You have a glory history in European land so there are some historic awareness/sadness among them.


#9 The misunderstanding will continue if no mutual respects exists. A ETIM flag will never anger me and we all know the so-called 'nation' will never ever come true. I only treat this action as a disrespect behavior and I think it's a bottom line for understanding.

We Chinese as a group are mature enough to bear any criticism and different views. We have our own judgement.for what you talk and what you do.

Still, I am willing to know more about your people. To me, the reason is very simple, we all have the brother country - Pakistan.
Thank you very much.



Sinan said:


> I'm always open for a creative discussion. let's begin answering the questions.
> 
> 
> 
> No
> 
> 
> We are very nationalist people, we deeply care about all the Turkics around the world. Leaving aside terrorist.... no Turk will show any mercy over a terrorist regardless of his ethnicity or religion.
> 
> 
> A simple answer won't cut this. Let me explain.
> 
> There was a terror organization group named ASALA. Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> They targetted and killed many Turkish diplomats. Conducted terrorist attacks.
> 
> Turkish deep government which can be described as Turkish Gladio. Formed a group named "Grey Wolfs" from Ultranationalist Turks Grey Wolves - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Members of the Grey Wolves scattered to foreign cities... In one night Grey Wolves killed all of the leaders of ASALA terror organization in a simultaneous attack over the different cities in the world. Hence ASALA literally finished that night.
> 
> After that attack... some of the members gone rogue... they killed Turkish Journalist, Politicians and Activist from left wing parties. Some of them became notorious mafia.
> Some of their activities
> 
> The Grey Wolves became the first foreign militant organization to participate in PLO training in Lebanon.
> On a global scale, the Grey Wolves are suspected to have been responsible for numerous political assassinations and disappearances of Turkish and Kurdish human rights activists, and are known to have ties with the Turkish mafia.
> The Grey Wolves have also raised funds for Chechen guerrilla separatists, whom they consider their brothers.
> In 1996 the Grey Wolves were involved in an attack on a protest of Greek Cypriots against the occupation of Cyprus and in the murder of Tasos Isaac.One protester, Tasos Isaac, was beaten to death.
> In December 1996, the Grey Wolves attacked left-wing students and teachers at Istanbul University, under police sanction.
> To conclude, it's believed that Grey Wolves had been given support from _government_ until the ASALA assasinations. After that assasination, they got out of control and gone completely rogue and harmed Turkey in various ways.
> 
> Other than that we had never given any terrorist group any support.
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> 
> EU didn't rejected Turkey and we are still a candidate country. We are doing some chapters for membership.
> 
> But... we all know that EU won't let us join the union. Reason is very simple. EU is being ruled with France-Germany coalition. because of their combined citizen number (somewhere near 150 million.)
> If Turkey enters EU a very possible Turkey-UK coalition will end France-Germany hegomony over Europe. Hence France-Germany opposes our cadidate whereas UK supports us.
> 
> 
> Kurds are our brothers, we lived peacefully together on these lands for 1000 years.
> ISIS are takfiri terorists which poses a great danger to regions stability. They must be eradicated.
> 
> 
> If we took aside Uyghur Issue.
> 
> I appreciate China very much. China helped us with ToT in many military projects whereas our so-called Western allies tried to hinder us from gaining ToT.
> 
> 
> maybe, i don't know.....
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan is our brother state. We are have very good relations with them. They have our support.
> 
> For Uyghurs... there is not much we can do for the Uyghurs from the other side of the planet... I think we should ease up the immigration on Uyghurs and welcome them in our country.
> 
> 
> 
> You can kill all of the terrorists, good keep doing that. But opression of our Uyghur kin is a different issue.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> s I know, there are only Turkey and Al Qaeda publicly support these kind of activities(You can find these points from BBC news site). I


No such thing.

In short.. also in BBC thread.. Turkey showing support for Uyghurs. You tend to put Turkey and Al-Qeada together. Make no mistake. I'm saying this again and again and again. We don't support terrorists. We are concerned about Uyghurs. And that's it.

Uyghurs are a nation for us. They have their own identity.It shıuld be known like.that.

Best regards.

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## TaiShang

jkroo said:


> We have our own judgement.for what you talk and what you do.



Exactly. The fact that most people keep silent does not mean they have no opinion of others. At times, it is just indifference or lack of interest. However, people do read and watch things and learn stuff, right or wrong.

Hence, the point of this thread is not to change people's mind, but only share information.

When the first post was made on this thread, no mention of Turkey or Turks was made and they did not come to the mind of the OP even for once. There was not an expectation that it was going to lead to a furious response. We always think whatever happens inside China's national borders/areas is of China's own. That basic understanding and respect has to be established if we are to continue on constructive dialogue.

Until and unless an Uighur starts to live in Turkey, it is our business how to deal with them and how to treat each other. That's the basic international rule: You do not intervene in my sovereignty, we do not intervene in yours. If you do intervene in mine, I reserve my right to disturb your internal peace and external security. There are a million way to do this -- that China does not do it does not mean it is incapable of doing it.

But, China would not move a finger if an Uighur becomes Turkish citizen and starts living there or somewhere else. Then, it is no longer in China's jurisdiction. Then it is none of China's business what Turkey does with Uighurs or Kurds. But China will not take lecturing. It does not take lecturing from the US; how come anyone believes it will take lecturing from Turkey. Most probably, it will lead to an even harsher stand; it will backfire, blowback.

Kinship, religious or ethnic affinity are archaic norms that have been trumped down with the rise of the notion of nation state. Crusade or Jihad is no longer feasible; there is no Christendom as there is no Islam-dom. Pan-Turanism is as arcahic and old-fashioned as Pan-Europeanism or Pan-Arabism.

A Pan-(whatever) would be feasible only if nations as sovereigns agree on and that would not go beyond cultural and economic realms. No one will sacrifice national borders and the legitimacy of national rule. China will do everything in its power, inlcuding a nuclear armaggedon, but will not sacrifice, literally, I guarantee, an inch of sovereign territory.

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> No such thing.
> 
> In short.. also in BBC thread.. Turkey showing support for Uyghurs. You tend to put Turkey and Al-Qeada together. Make no mistake. I'm saying this again and again and again. We don't support terrorists. We are concerned about Uyghurs. And that's it.
> 
> Uyghurs are a *nation* for us. They have their own identity.It shıuld be known like.that.
> 
> Best regards.



That BBC news is put here only for the evidence of Erdogan's claim. I am not willing to put Turkey and Al Qaeda together but I found that BBC put both together. You will find in it's news site though I don't like the west propaganda machine - BBC,CNN etc.

You used a vague and ambiguous words 'nation' but the 'ethnic group' is appropriate I think.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> That BBC news is put here only for the evidence of Erdogan's claim. I am not willing to put Turkey and Al Qaeda together but I found that BBC put both together. You will find in it's news site though I don't like the west propaganda machine - BBC,CNN etc.
> 
> You used a vague and ambiguous words 'nation' but the 'ethnic group' is appropriate I think.






> *Turkey's prime minister has described ethnic violence in China's Xinjiang region as "a kind of genocide".*
> 
> "There is no other way of commenting on this event," Recep Tayyip Erdogan said.
> 
> He spoke after a night-time curfew was reimposed in Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, where Muslim Uighurs and Han Chinese clashed last Sunday.
> 
> The death toll from the violence there has now risen from 156 to 184, China's state-run Xinhua news agency reports. More than 1,000 people were injured.
> 
> Turkey is secular but the population is predominantly Muslim and it shares linguistic and religious links with the Uighurs in China's western-most region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Quentin Sommerville, BBC News, Urumqi*
> After Friday's prayers, a small group of Uighur Muslims marched along an Urumqi street demanding the release of men detained for their alleged role in last Sunday's riot.
> 
> A large number of riot police surrounded the group, they punched and kicked the protestors - one officer used his baton to beat one of the Uighurs. A number of foreign journalists had their equipment seized, some have been detained.
> 
> Earlier the group said they feared for their safety. There's no word from the authorities as to what happened to them.
> 
> In pictures: Closed mosques
> New media openness
> Q&A: China and the Uighurs
> 
> 
> "The event taking place in China is a kind of genocide," Mr Erdogan told reporters in Turkey's capital, Ankara.
> 
> "There are atrocities there, hundreds of people have been killed and 1,000 hurt. We have difficulty understanding how China's leadership can remain a spectator in the face of these events."
> 
> The Turkish premier also urged Beijing to "address the question of human rights and do what is necessary to prosecute the guilty".
> 
> Mr Erdogan's comments came a day after Turkish Trade and Industry Minister Nihat Ergun urged Turks to boycott Chinese goods.
> 
> Beijing has so far not publicly commented on Mr Erdogan's criticism.
> 
> But it said that of the 184 people who died, 137 were Han Chinese.
> 
> *Uighurs defiant*
> 
> Earlier on Friday, the Chinese authorities reimposed a night-time curfew in Urumqi.
> 
> The curfew had been suspended for two days after officials said they had the city under control.
> 
> Mosques in the city were ordered to remain closed on Friday and notices were posted instructing people to stay at home to worship.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> XINJIANG: ETHNIC UNREST
> Main ethnic division: 45% Uighur, 40% Han Chinese
> 26 June: Mass factory brawl after dispute between Han Chinese and Uighurs in Guangdong, southern China, leaves two Uighurs dead
> 5 July: Uighur protest in Urumqi over the dispute turns violent, leaving 156 dead - most of them thought to be Han - and more than 1,000 hurt
> 7 July: Uighur women protest at arrests of menfolk. Han Chinese make armed counter-march
> 8 July: President Hu Jintao returns from G8 summit to tackle crisis
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taboo of ethnic tensions
> Profile: Rebiya Kadeer
> Xinjiang: Views from China
> But at least two opened after crowds of Uighurs gathered outside and demanded to be allowed in to pray on the holiest day of the week in Islam.
> 
> "We decided to open the mosque because so many people had gathered. We did not want an incident," a policeman outside the White Mosque in a Uighur neighbourhood told the AP news agency.
> 
> After the prayers, riot police punched and kicked a small group of Uighurs protesters, who demanded the release of men detained after last Sunday's violence, the BBC's Quentin Sommerville says.
> 
> Meanwhile, the city's main bus station was reported to be crowded with people trying to escape the unrest.
> 
> Extra bus services had been laid on and touts were charging up to five times the normal face price for tickets, AFP news agency said.
> 
> "It is just too risky to stay here. We are scared of the violence," a 23-year-old construction worker from central China said.
> 
> The violence began on Sunday when a Uighur rally to protest against a deadly brawl between Uighurs and Han Chinese several weeks ago in a toy factory in southern Guangdong province turned violent.
> 
> Tensions have been growing in Xinjiang for many years, as Han migrants have poured into the region, where the Uighur minority is concentrated.
> 
> Many Uighurs feel economic growth has bypassed them and complain of discrimination and diminished opportunities



Here is the text of the article you have linked can you show me where in this article El-Qaeda and Turkey's names are mentioned together ???

Don't want to argue about what is a nation what is a ethnic group,, etc.. ..


----------



## jkroo

Sinan said:


> Here is the text of the article you have linked can you show me where in this article El-Qaeda and Turkey's names are mentioned together ???
> 
> Don't want to argue about what is a nation what is a ethnic group,, etc.. ..



I have answered you already. The only link I put it here just to prove your PM's claim.

About the news that Turkey and Al Qaeda are mentioned together. I found that BBC published in 21st July, 2009.

But it's astonishing that I can't search out this result including BBC China site. But there are many snapshots in Chinese sites.

You can claim that I can't backup my own sources quote from others. It's OK and this have nothing to do with Erdogan's claim. Right?

You can treat it as 'comment' from the third party on the issue that 'Turkey and Al Qaeda support ETIM terrorists'.



jkroo said:


> That BBC news is put here only for the evidence of Erdogan's claim. I am not willing to put Turkey and Al Qaeda together but I found that BBC put both together. You will find in it's news site though I don't like the west propaganda machine - BBC,CNN etc.
> 
> You used a vague and ambiguous words 'nation' but the 'ethnic group' is appropriate I think.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> I have answered you already. The only link I put it here just to prove your PM's claim.
> About the news that Turkey and Al Qaeda are mentioned together. I found that BBC published in 21st July, 2009.
> But it's astonishing that I can't search out this result including BBC China site. But there are many snapshots in Chinese sites.
> You can claim that I can't backup my own sources quote from others. It's OK and this have nothing to do with Erdogan's claim. Right?
> You can treat it as 'comment' from the third party on the issue that 'Turkey and Al Qaeda support ETIM terrorists'.



Most probably you'are mistaken..and there is no proof.  (I'm really tired from saying this phrase)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, people were saying that Turkey is a secular country for now but it will change in the future and stuff..... not sure if they said that in this thread or not.

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> Most probably you'are mistaken..i not just show the proof.  (I'm really tired from saying this phrase)
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Also, people we saying that Turkey is a secular country for now, it will change in the future and stuff..... not sure if in this thread or not.


Thank you for your information. A country is secular or not doesn't matter.

In 1980s a team of Pakistani went to my city and stayed in a tank factory for months.

They are very religious people and honored as trusted friends.

I will end the discussion here. Good luck.

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## Jayanta

Nan Yang said:


> Please provide source.
> India never rule over Malaysia, Indonesia nor Cambodia. Do not equate Hindu influence as ruling.



Read about the Medieval India and Chola dynasty. Chola dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Nan Yang

Jayanta said:


> Read about the Medieval India and Chola dynasty. Chola dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I did exactly that. Show me where it said Chola *RULED *over Malaysia, Indonesia or Cambodia.

Quote that was traced from the link you provided.
*There is nothing to indicate that this military expedition was followed by a direct Chola military occupation,* and it is likely that the Cholas followed their custom by returning their armies to Tanjore with their plunder. This quick successive ruthless strikes without occupation were probably the main reason for Chola's success, for they were able to keep moving fast, attacks new targets without warning and with full force before the news of the invasion spread throughout Malay coastal cities.
End Quote

Chola did attack the Kingdom of Sri Vijaya but did not stay and RULE. They just plunder, took all its treasure and left.
Chola only occupied the small Kingdom of Kadaram (Present day state of Kedah). And only for a short while.

Sri Vijaya continue to exist after the Chola attack.

Quote
Despite the devastation, Srivijaya mandala still survive as the Chola invasion was ultimately unsuccessful to install direct administration over Srivijaya, since the invasion was short and only meant to plunder.
End Quote


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## Jayanta

Nan Yang said:


> I did exactly that. Show me where it said Chola *RULED *over Malaysia, Indonesia or Cambodia.
> 
> Quote that was traced from the link you provided.
> *There is nothing to indicate that this military expedition was followed by a direct Chola military occupation,* and it is likely that the Cholas followed their custom by returning their armies to Tanjore with their plunder. This quick successive ruthless strikes without occupation were probably the main reason for Chola's success, for they were able to keep moving fast, attacks new targets without warning and with full force before the news of the invasion spread throughout Malay coastal cities.
> End Quote
> 
> Chola did attack the Kingdom of Sri Vijaya but did not stay and RULE. They just plunder, took all its treasure and left.
> Chola only occupied the small Kingdom of Kadaram (Present day state of Kedah). And only for a short while.
> 
> Sri Vijaya continue to exist after the Chola attack.
> 
> Quote
> Despite the devastation, Srivijaya mandala still survive as the Chola invasion was ultimately unsuccessful to install direct administration over Srivijaya, since the invasion was short and only meant to plunder.
> End Quote



Exactly....won't it outrageous to claim Malaysia as a part of India based of some rulers invasion during the medieval world. Similarly Xinjiang existed as an independent country until 1949 and Chinese claim over it is based on some rulers annexation during the medieval world. The world have have changed drastically since the colonial power's retreat.


----------



## -SINAN-

Officials in China's turbulent north-western region of Xinjiang are tightening restrictions on Muslim practices including mass prayers during Ramadan, according to government notices.

Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting.

Religious controls are usually stricter during Ramadan but experts say this year's are noticeably stronger and believe it is the first time they have been published rather than passed on orally.

A notice on the Zhaosu county website said that ideological education had to be stepped up in the face of "violent and disruptive activities by religious extremists, separatists and terrorists".

Last month saw the worst violence for a decade with a string of fatal attacks including an assault on police in Kashgar that left 16 officers dead and 16 wounded. No one has claimed responsibility but officials have blamed Uighur separatists.

Two of the towns that posted notices, Xinhe and Shaya, are near Kuqa, where 11 people died in suicide bombings and police shootings a few days later.

Around half the population of the vast region of Xinjiang is composed of Muslim Uighurs. *Many resent the religious and cultural restrictions placed upon them* and some seek an independent East Turkestan.

A note on the Shaya government website said propaganda and inspections should be stepped up during the period. *"Fasting and participation in religious activities by party members and students is forbidden*," it said.

The note called for stronger security at mosques, saying that officials should "prohibit playing recordings, videos or using loudspeakers to force people to take part in fasting. Work units or individuals are not allowed to hand out religious propaganda in public areas."

It said people were forbidden from forcing others to fast, attend religious activities or cover their face with veils. "Effective measures" should be taken to ensure people who already had beards and veils removed them, the note said, although it appears it may have been referring to officials and public sector workers.

A Zhaosu county website notice said officials should "try to reduce Ramadan's influence on society as much as possible".

It told them to "dissuade people from attending organised and planned worship in large groups in order to prevent mass incidents; prevent, guide and stop situations like closing restaurants during Ramadan, students attending religious activities, women going into mosques with veils and shops stopping selling wines and cigarettes".

"To the best of my knowledge it's the first time this has been explicitly spelled out in this way - normally these instructions are not put in writing," said Nicholas Bequelin, an expert on Xinjiang at Human Rights Watch. Measures such as the restrictions on restaurants were "definitely more intrusive than before," he said.

"What has been driving these increasingly invasive restrictions on religious and cultural behaviour is the fear that Uighurs are not loyal to the party and government," Bequelin said. "It used to be the case that some cadres in the 80s and early 90s were clearly religious. That's not possible any more because the state sees what it regards as ostentatious religiosity as an act of defiance towards the government."

China officials tighten restrictions on Muslim practices | World news | theguardian.com
China bans Muslims from fasting during Holy Ramadan

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## narcon

Lets not talk about good China which is our great friend - Pakistan.

Now what?

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## -SINAN-

narcon said:


> Lets not talk about good China which is our great friend - Pakistan.
> 
> Now what?



Now there is friendship, both sides respects to each other.

And there is something else.... when one side spits on your face, but you still love them....

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## NKVD

Sinan said:


> Officials in China's turbulent north-western region of Xinjiang are tightening restrictions on Muslim practices including mass prayers during Ramadan, according to government notices.
> 
> Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting.
> 
> Religious controls are usually stricter during Ramadan but experts say this year's are noticeably stronger and believe it is the first time they have been published rather than passed on orally.
> 
> A notice on the Zhaosu county website said that ideological education had to be stepped up in the face of "violent and disruptive activities by religious extremists, separatists and terrorists".
> 
> Last month saw the worst violence for a decade with a string of fatal attacks including an assault on police in Kashgar that left 16 officers dead and 16 wounded. No one has claimed responsibility but officials have blamed Uighur separatists.
> 
> Two of the towns that posted notices, Xinhe and Shaya, are near Kuqa, where 11 people died in suicide bombings and police shootings a few days later.
> 
> Around half the population of the vast region of Xinjiang is composed of Muslim Uighurs. *Many resent the religious and cultural restrictions placed upon them* and some seek an independent East Turkestan.
> 
> A note on the Shaya government website said propaganda and inspections should be stepped up during the period. *"Fasting and participation in religious activities by party members and students is forbidden*," it said.
> 
> The note called for stronger security at mosques, saying that officials should "prohibit playing recordings, videos or using loudspeakers to force people to take part in fasting. Work units or individuals are not allowed to hand out religious propaganda in public areas."
> 
> It said people were forbidden from forcing others to fast, attend religious activities or cover their face with veils. "Effective measures" should be taken to ensure people who already had beards and veils removed them, the note said, although it appears it may have been referring to officials and public sector workers.
> 
> A Zhaosu county website notice said officials should "try to reduce Ramadan's influence on society as much as possible".
> 
> It told them to "dissuade people from attending organised and planned worship in large groups in order to prevent mass incidents; prevent, guide and stop situations like closing restaurants during Ramadan, students attending religious activities, women going into mosques with veils and shops stopping selling wines and cigarettes".
> 
> "To the best of my knowledge it's the first time this has been explicitly spelled out in this way - normally these instructions are not put in writing," said Nicholas Bequelin, an expert on Xinjiang at Human Rights Watch. Measures such as the restrictions on restaurants were "definitely more intrusive than before," he said.
> 
> "What has been driving these increasingly invasive restrictions on religious and cultural behaviour is the fear that Uighurs are not loyal to the party and government," Bequelin said. "It used to be the case that some cadres in the 80s and early 90s were clearly religious. That's not possible any more because the state sees what it regards as ostentatious religiosity as an act of defiance towards the government."
> 
> China officials tighten restrictions on Muslim practices | World news | theguardian.com
> China bans Muslims from fasting during Holy Ramadan


Aspected when you are a citizens of Aethist Regime

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## Kaniska

This is nothing related to Pakistan realtion with China...Why Pakistan will be worried what China does to its citizens...

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## TimeToScoot

> And there is something else.... when one side spits on your face, but you still love them....

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## Dem!god

ohhh...!!!!
what will the muslim brotherhood will do....where is Muslim ummmah to save their brother's from these atrocities..... even i am feeling bad over it...uff...

@Zarvan

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## Hyperion

@Sinan, my friend, Armed Forces officers for decades were not allowed to offer prayers, let alone fast.........their wives denied the right to veil........ same was true for many universities where even a mosque was not allowed...... anyone even with a remotely religious look was followed by MIT......... foods at universities were contaminated for other reasons........ people disappeared for no reason at all......... this all happened in Turkey......... along with millions of other things.......

Let's not get into state policies of China.......... we know that they may not be perfect, however, essential to integrity of state of China from foreign elements, who wish nothing less than total disintegration of it, by using religion or other covert means.

Stable China is not only good for us, but for rest of humanity........... a unipolar world, where Uncle Sam gets to do whatever it wants is bad bad bad......... trust you me, even bad for Turkey.......... China maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order.......... it isn't there yet, however, it will eventually get there in a decade or so.........

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## Audio

Hyperion said:


> China maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order



lol.....amazing.

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## Sulman Badshah

China Always ban the muslims to perform their religious duties ...

Many Chinese come in Pakistan and than from Pakistan they go to perform Hajj ...
China should give religious freedom to every religion

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## Hyperion

Well, you are little biaaaches of Uncle Sam, so you have nothing to worry about. If UK is Uncle Sam's poodle, you guys are their watch dogs.............



Audio said:


> lol.....amazing.

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## foxbat

I am sure this thread would have hit a 100 pages by now had this happened in USA (1000 if India). Looks like national interests still beat religion by a huge margin in Pakistan too .. China > Ummah

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## Hyperion

Ummah is a word coined by the infidel. There is no such thing. Zarvan himself is an infidel, he just doesn't know it. 



Dem!god said:


> ohhh...!!!!
> what will the muslim brotherhood will do....where is Muslim ummmah to save their brother's from these atrocities..... even i am feeling bad over it...uff...
> 
> @Zarvan

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## SwAggeR

Didn't they recently ban burying deads by muslims too ???



narcon said:


> Lets not talk about good China which is our great friend - Pakistan.
> 
> Now what?



How does that concern Pakistan ??China didn't ban Pakistanies . Pakistanies are already training Myanmar's defense personnel.


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## Audio

Hyperion said:


> Well, you are little biaaaches of Uncle Sam, so you have nothing to worry about. If UK is Uncle Sam's poodle, you guys are their watch dogs.............



awww....i'll leave you a love note on here when your dream crashes and burns.


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## Hyperion

What's with the incessant need of mentioning "India" with the US/Russia/China? Are you so infatuated with them that you have this need to stitch together "India" in every other sentence that mentions anyone of them? Dude, they are in a different league....... way way way different............... 



foxbat said:


> I am sure this thread would have hit a 100 pages by now had this happened in USA (1000 if India). Looks like national interests still beat religion by a huge margin in Pakistan too .. China > Ummah

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## foxbat

Hyperion said:


> What's with the incessant need of mentioning "India" with the US/Russia/China? Are you so infatuated with them that you have this need to stitch together "India" in every other sentence that mentions anyone of them? Dude, they are in a different league....... way way way different...............


In fields of Development, R&D, wealth etc, indeed.. But when it comes to pet peeves of Pakistani memebrs on pdf, then India is in a league of its own 

And that was the context.

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## narcon

SwAggeR said:


> Didn't they recently ban burying deads by muslims too ???
> 
> 
> 
> How does that concern Pakistan ??China didn't ban Pakistanies . Pakistanies are already training Myanmar's defense personnel.



Chinese kill Muslim Uhighirs all the time, whenever there is uprising...
Nothing new.
Pakistan does not like it, but nothing it can do.

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## Peaceful Civilian

We should also ban fasting for policemen and army on duty...


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## -SINAN-

WishLivePak said:


> "you must be Indian!!! Jealous of our relationship with China? Die hindu! China Pakistan bhai bhai, even if it means selling izhat!"



I'm Turk to the blood. We don't care about relationships... we rely on our own power.

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## Hyperion

In all seriousness...... how old are you kid? You are here on a defense forum, discussing strategy with the big boys, yet, have the capacity of a seven year old........... 



WishLivePak said:


> Reported to @Aeronaut. Don't act childish.
> 
> And fyi, it was jokes. Can you see the quotes?

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## Sam Manekshaw

@Aeronaut would u like to speak for your people here?


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## Sam Manekshaw

Peaceful Civilian said:


> We should also ban fasting for policemen and army on duty...


No that will be racist then


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## Koovie

NKVD said:


> Aspected when you are a citizens of Aethist Regime



China deals with development first and not religion... thats why they are already the 2end largest economy in the world and will become a superpower in the next decades.

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## Audio

Hyperion said:


> Tsk tsk tsk.......... didn't know I'd get on your nerves so fast.......... "fag", "simple man / simple minded = retarded", "bought off".......... all in one paragraph........ maybe, I did damage one of your nerves......... good for me.........



Allah will punish you, for offering your appendage anyway. Enjoy! 

and no, you didn't get on my nerves, just a usual reaction when confronted with "simple" explanations/blanket statements "all will be good if x happens".
Oh and maybe, i just feel, a little bit, that you're being pampered on this site. So.....death to momma's boys with ego problems.

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## pigtaker

Sinan said:


> I'm Turk to the blood. We don't care about relationships... we rely on our own power.


Ok, you will see China and Russia join hands to deal with you, that is what the SCO for, driving out america's stooges in this region.

We will help Kurds have an independent country, while Russia claim back their holy city of Constantine, a move will be welcomed by most eastern europe and even greek. As for turks, go back to mountains to raise goats and weave carpet for a living, while you can still dream your Turan.

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## UKBengali

Audio said:


> Allah will punish you, for offering your appendage anyway. Enjoy!
> 
> and no, you didn't get on my nerves, just a usual reaction when confronted with "simple" explanations/blanket statements "all will be good if x happens".
> Oh and maybe, i just feel, a little bit, that you're being pampered on this site. So.....death to momma's boys with ego problems.




From someone who spends all his posts talking down China like most Indians like to do.

Did you miss, that in GDP PPP, China is the largest economy on the planet now and growing at 7-8% with US at 1-2%?

Let us wait till 2025 and see who is right.

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## WishLivePak

Hyperion said:


> Beta, I went to several schools where the likes of you can't even apply, never ever...............
> 
> Why so touchy, that you think that others are attacking you personally? If you blame someone, be a man and take the heat..........
> 
> Btw, there's an art to handling trolls, and I wrote the book on it......... sadly, didn't factor-in every kind.............


And where exactly do you live? Turkey. While I'm off to top 20 university in world.

And I blamed you nowhere. You just came with your pee comment. So stop acting like an, you know well, and not take this thread off topic, mister.


----------



## illusion8

pigtaker said:


> Ok, you will see China and Russia join hands to deal with you, that is what the SCO for, driving out america's stooges in this region.
> 
> We will help Kurds have an independent country, while Russia claim back their holy city of Constantine, a move will be welcomed by most eastern europe and even greek. As for turks, go back to mountains to raise goats and weave carpet for a living, while you can still dream your Turan.



@Hyperion 

Here's one of your "best for humanity" example.

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## Hyperion

Nah dude. I speak my mind. I reserve the right to bash even my own kind. Just try to accept counter points without getting personal. Make fun of my country, and I'll make fun of your countries shortcomings, but that's where we draw the line......

Death to all nationalist trollers, is more appropriate, don't you think? 



Audio said:


> Allah will punish you, for offering your appendage anyway. Enjoy!
> 
> and no, you didn't get on my nerves, just a usual reaction when confronted with "simple" explanations/blanket statements "all will be good if x happens".
> Oh and maybe, i just feel, a little bit, that you're being pampered on this site. So.....death to momma's boys with ego problems.

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## sahaliyan

pigtaker said:


> Ok, you will see China and Russia join hands to deal with you, that is what the SCO for, driving out america's stooges in this region.
> 
> We will help Kurds have an independent country, while Russia claim back their holy city of Constantine, a move will be welcomed by most eastern europe and even greek. As for turks, go back to mountains to raise goats and weave carpet for a living, while you can still dream your Turan.


No,we will not do this with Russians,Turkey is not our enemy,though many Turkish members here dislike China,but they can't be our enemy,they share no border with us,far far away from us,the relation between Russia and Turkey is not our bussiness,they fight or die is not our problem


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## Hyperion

You certainly are a beacon of light for enlightened China. I hope you understand the sarcasm here.....



pigtaker said:


> Ok, you will see China and Russia join hands to deal with you, that is what the SCO for, driving out america's stooges in this region.
> 
> We will help Kurds have an independent country, while Russia claim back their holy city of Constantine, a move will be welcomed by most eastern europe and even greek. As for turks, go back to mountains to raise goats and weave carpet for a living, while you can still dream your Turan.

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## Raphael

UKBengali said:


> From someone who spends all his posts talking down China like most Indians like to do.
> 
> Did you miss, that in GDP PPP, China is the largest economy on the planet now and growing at 7-8% with US at 1-2%?
> 
> Let us wait till 2025 and see who is right.



I think Audio is the longest running Indian false-flagger on PDF. Apparently, he still holds firm to his original cover story, that he's a "Slovene" .

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## pigtaker

sahaliyan said:


> No,we will not do this with Russians,Turkey is not our enemy,though many Turkish members here dislike China,but they can't be our enemy,they share no border with us,far far away from us,the relation between Russia and Turkey is not our bussiness,they fight or die is not our problem


No, we will. Their Turan dream and anti-China metality is a potential threat to us. Besides, they are a front pawn of Nato in Asia needed to be root out.

An independent Kurdstan will provide a stronghold for us in middle east, greatly increasing our influence there.

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## Hyperion

Handled.

P.S. I really don't like this @SwAggeR guy thanking all anti-China posts like an automaton.... seriously.......... 



illusion8 said:


> @Hyperion
> 
> Here's one of your "best for humanity" example.

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## jkroo

I would like to learn something from @Sinan and hence ask you some questions:
1. When these news was released and are we well informed?
2. Do you know China government is secular or not?
3. Do you know a religious person can join CCP?
4. What do you think thegardien's reputation in China and in Turkey(including BBC)?
5. What's the arrangements of Turkey's secular government for Islamic festival?
6. Do you know how many ethnic groups in China who practice Islamic religion?
7. Do you know how many mosques in China and the rank of the total religious facilities?
8. Do you know China's religion policies?
9. What is the religious structure(people practice different religions) of Turkey and do you know the Chinese?
Thank you in advance.


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## pigtaker

Hyperion said:


> You certainly are a beacon of light for enlightened China. I hope you understand the sarcasm here.....


Do I care your feeling for Turks, no way. we have grand mission to fulfill.

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## Hyperion

Where on earth did Kurdistan ever enter this conversation? Stop derailing the thread with nonsense........ 



pigtaker said:


> No, we will. Their Turan dream and anti-China metality is a potential threat to us. Besides, they are a front pawn of Nato in Asia needed to be root out.
> 
> An independent Kurdstan will provide a stronghold for us in middle east, greatly increasing our influence there.

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## $@rJen

pigtaker said:


> Ok, you will see China and Russia join hands to deal with you, that is what the SCO for, driving out america's stooges in this region.
> 
> We will help Kurds have an independent country, while Russia claim back their holy city of Constantine, a move will be welcomed by most eastern europe and even greek. As for turks, go back to mountains to raise goats and weave carpet for a living, while you can still dream your Turan.



@Jf Thunder , dude you were backing him,,,, see his first reply on this thread...??? It all Warmongering.......... This guy needs a screwdriver

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## UKBengali

Raphael said:


> I think Audio is the longest running Indian false-flagger on PDF. Apparently, he still holds firm to his original cover story, that he's a "Slovene" .




When I gave him proof that manual labour is actually more expensive in inland Henan than coastal Guangdog, he started talking about China's low pensions as proof that Chinese are still impoverished. He did not take into account that children are still expected to take care of their parents in China unlike in the West.

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## Hyperion

Fill your grand mission on another thread. I have no feeling for anyone, but for logic.



pigtaker said:


> Do I care your feeling for Turks, no way. we have grand mission to fulfill.


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## WishLivePak

Mods should lock this thread... It has been hijacked


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## illusion8

Hyperion said:


> Handled.
> 
> P.S. I really don't like this @SwAggeR guy thanking all anti-China posts like an automaton.... seriously..........



He's cool.

Doesn't probably have a great liking for China, but that's understandable.

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## sahaliyan

China is a secular country,so religion and government is separate,religion and education is separate

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## WishLivePak

sahaliyan said:


> China is a secular country,so religion and government is separate,religion and education is separate


thread title disagrees with you

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## Sam.

This is just wrong :|

By reading comment here seems like Pakistani people don't care about Islam as they seems to shout to the world.


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## pigtaker

Hyperion said:


> Fill your grand mission on another thread. I have no feeling for anyone, but for logic.


you can really abuse your power to give me negative rating, butt hurt???

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## WishLivePak

Sam. said:


> This is just wrong :|
> 
> By reading comment here seems like Pakistani people don't care about Islam as they seems to shout to the world.


No vieling allowed in France? That's not ok, protests. It's not part of religion.

People not allowed to fast in China? That's ok. Even if part of religion.

Read up China and France relationship with Pakistan.

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## jammersat

That's sad affair if they cannot fast they have to go for it slow

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## Hyperion

That's for pure trolling. I didn't give a negative rating in my life for attacks of personal nature......... stop derailing the thread!



pigtaker said:


> you can really abuse your power to give me negative rating, butt hurt???


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## WishLivePak

pigtaker said:


> you can really abuse your power to give me negative rating, butt hurt???


I reported him, so should you. Breaks three forum rules, gets away (you know why) and I get strike to be banned. Also ratings don't mean anything.

BE RESPECTFUL
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be *courteous when disagreeing* with others. It is possible to *disagree without being insulting.*

PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE PROHIBITED
Commonly known as flaming, *personal attacks* are posts which are designed to personally *berate or insult another. *Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated.

TROLLING
Trolling is the word used to describe a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of *angering and insulting the members of the forum community.* Posts of this nature are disruptive and do not convey a friendly attitude.

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## eazzy

I don't know of its true or not, but it would probably be the most stupid thing to do. It's basically saying "Yes, terrorist are here to protect you from us, you should probably side with them".

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## Sam.

WishLivePak said:


> No vieling allowed in France? That's not ok, protests. It's not part of religion.
> 
> People not allowed to fast in China? That's ok. Even if part of religion.
> 
> Read up China and France relationship with Pakistan.



I didn't comprehend your point of view here so please elaborate.

Thank you


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## WishLivePak

eazzy said:


> I don't know of its true or not, but it would probably be the most stupid thing to do. It's basically saying "Yes, terrorist are here to protect you from us, you should probably side with them".


Nothing is stupid if done 'properly.' For example, secretly without it making it in the news. Many stupid things happen in world and continue to occur because they don't catch media.

Example, no one heard a case in Quebec/Canada where people submitted petition in somewhat *banning of muslim prayers*. It didn't become law, but nonetheless had support from various people to make it to the courts.






Since you're from france... It's in french.


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## Dem!god

its amazing to see....all muslims who blame india,.jews, west, myanmar, thailand for prosecuting, harassing and treating their muslim population like dirt has suddenly nothing to say on china... height of hypocrisy...lol..

i can say any day that all those country treat their minority 100th of time more better then the chinese counter part....

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## jammersat

Dem!god said:


> its amazing to see....all muslims who blame india,.jews, west, myanmar, thailand for prosecuting, harassing and treating their muslim population like dirt has suddenly nothing to say on china... height of hypocrisy...lol..
> 
> i can say any day that all those country treat their minority 100th of time more better then the chinese counter part....


maybe it's because the chinese actually want the good thing for their muslim population , not allowing them to grow beard , not allowing them to go hungry for no good reason

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## sahaliyan

WishLivePak said:


> thread title disagrees with you


If you read the news,it clearly said only forbidden government officials and students fasting during Ramadan


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## Dem!god

jammersat said:


> maybe it's because the chinese actually want the good thing for their muslim population , not allowing them to grow beard , not allowing them to go hungry for no good reason


i think all other non-muslim nation should learn from their chinese counter part...
if west have applied the same logic there would have been no ISIS today...


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## jammersat

Dem!god said:


> i think all other non-muslim nation should learn from their chinese counter part...
> if west have applied the same logic there would have been no ISIS today...


no seriously the chinese people are too good a people for their own good 
That's why some serious a-brats pops up among them from time to time

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## halupridol

Hyperion said:


> Ummah is a word coined by the infidel. There is no such thing. Zarvan himself is an infidel, he just doesn't know it.


now u die

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## Asena_Y

Hyperion said:


> @Sinan, my friend, Armed Forces officers for decades were not allowed to offer prayers, let alone fast.........their wives denied the right to veil........ same was true for many universities where even a mosque was not allowed...... anyone even with a remotely religious look was followed by MIT......... foods at universities were contaminated for other reasons........ people disappeared for no reason at all......... this all happened in Turkey......... along with millions of other things.......
> 
> Let's not get into state policies of China.......... we know that they may not be perfect, however, essential to integrity of state of China from foreign elements, who wish nothing less than total disintegration of it, by using religion or other covert means.
> 
> Stable China is not only good for us, but for rest of humanity........... a unipolar world, where Uncle Sam gets to do whatever it wants is bad bad bad......... trust you me, even bad for Turkey.......... China maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order.......... it isn't there yet, however, it will eventually get there in a decade or so.........




Maybe? China is a shame for humanity rather than being its "last hope".

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## WishLivePak

sahaliyan said:


> If you read the news,it clearly said only forbidden government officials and students fasting during Ramadan


What he said, China is a secular country,so religion and *government is separate,*religion and *education is separate*

What you said

only forbidden *government* officials and *students* fasting during Ramadan

or am i missing something?


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## sahaliyan

WishLivePak said:


> What he said, China is a secular country,so religion and *government is separate,*religion and *education is separate*
> 
> What you said
> 
> only forbidden *government* officials and *students* fasting during Ramadan
> 
> or am i missing something?


religion and *government is separate,so government officials not allowed fasting during Ramadan.And same to the students.You can do what you want to do in home and your mosques,but in schools,you are forbidden to do religious things*

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## WishLivePak

sahaliyan said:


> religion and *government is separate,so government officials not allowed fasting during Ramadan.And same to the students.You can do what you want to do in home and your mosques,but in schools,you are forbidden to do religious things*



Well I took as government being seperate meaning no inteference with religion. You come from work, where you're not permktted to fast and at home you can? There is timing to fasting.

Second, you yourself said students can't fast. So he's wrong, education and religion are not seperate. religion interfers with education.


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## halupridol

really,,,,wow
5 pages n only few meek protests from even fewer Pakistani members.....
while most either stay mum or show superficial support for China....

even on the other thread by @Kaan on same topic,,,,apart from the likes of @Akheilos most other Pakistani ummah champions cudnt find spine,even to post.....

if in place of China,,,,,god forbid,,India,myanmar,US or any other country for that matter was involved,probably there wud have been posts urging for jihad,nuclear war n what not from Pakistani members


respect for Chinese diplomacy,,,,they have got there "higher then-deeper then" friends by the balls....



now on topic---
seems this ban is imposed only in Xinxiang,,,which,in my opinion,will further escalate the already tense situation....
instead of assimilating uighurs such restrictions will further antagonize/alienate them,,n add fuel to fire for separatist cause.....
n this is wrong.


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## WishLivePak

halupridol said:


> really,,,,wow
> 5 pages n only few meek protests from even fewer Pakistani members.....
> while most either stay mum or show superficial support for China....
> 
> even on the other thread by @Kaan on same topic,,,,apart from the likes of @Akheilos most other Pakistani ummah champions cudnt find spine,even to post.....
> 
> if in place of China,,,,,god forbid,,India,myanmar,US or any other country for that matter was involved,probably there wud have been posts urging for jihad,nuclear war n what not from Pakistani members
> 
> 
> respect for Chinese diplomacy,,,,they have got there "higher then-deeper then" friends by the balls....
> 
> 
> 
> now on topic---
> seems this ban is imposed only in Xinxiang,,,which,in my opinion,will further escalate the already tense situation....
> instead of assimilating uighurs such restrictions will further antagonize them,,n add fuel to fire for separatist cause.....


Which is what I've been saying. And I received ban notice 
This 'china pakistan bhai bhai' is not as true as it seems.

Did you see the protests about france banning veiling? It's not part of Islam, yet protests!
Fasting is part of Islam, but no protests about its ban. If it was France, people would be burning cars and tires on streets in Pakistan right now.

I fear the Afghans/uzbeks might visit China and iniate their jihad. They build support on oppression.


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## Nike

Hyperion said:


> @Sinan, my friend, Armed Forces officers for decades were not allowed to offer prayers, let alone fast.........their wives denied the right to veil........ same was true for many universities where even a mosque was not allowed...... anyone even with a remotely religious look was followed by MIT......... foods at universities were contaminated for other reasons........ people disappeared for no reason at all......... this all happened in Turkey......... along with millions of other things.......
> 
> Let's not get into state policies of China.......... we know that they may not be perfect, however, essential to integrity of state of China from foreign elements, who wish nothing less than total disintegration of it, by using religion or other covert means.
> 
> Stable China is not only good for us, but for rest of humanity........... a unipolar world, where Uncle Sam gets to do whatever it wants is bad bad bad......... trust you me, even bad for Turkey.......... Chi*na maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order..........* it isn't there yet, however, it will eventually get there in a decade or so.........



Amazing, from where you got this point

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## waz

Now this story props up every year during Ramadan. Just how do you prevent people from fasting? Do you force them to eat? Because the news out of the region is very scarce and it is either from one side or another, there really isn't a third opinion to judge the ground situation there. 

Now I have asked Chinese Muslims, having been to China myself and they have never had any restriction based upon them and in fact are encouraged in their religious duties. By Muslims I mean the Hui people. 

I think this is only to be found in Xinjiang. Regardless of how much I see China as a brother and dear ally this is utterly wrong. You can't tell people to stop practicing their faith and is a grave breech of human rights.

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## Zarvan

Dem!god said:


> ohhh...!!!!
> what will the muslim brotherhood will do....where is Muslim ummmah to save their brother's from these atrocities..... even i am feeling bad over it...uff...
> 
> @Zarvan


China by these actions are inviting big trouble in these country anger among Muslim world will increase and there fore more groups will start focusing on China

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## halupridol

Zarvan said:


> China by these actions are inviting big trouble in these country anger among Muslim world will increase and there fore more groups will start focusing on China


what groups???


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## ito

Zarvan said:


> China by these actions are inviting big trouble in these country anger among Muslim world will increase and there fore more groups will start focusing on China



will be better if you mind your own business. it is their country their rules.

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## Zarvan

ito said:


> will be better if you mind your own business. it is their country their rules.


A matter of one Muslim is matter of all Muslims and no body can be allowed to attack Muslims or ban them from Islamic things

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## foxbat

waz said:


> Now this story props up every year during Ramadan. Just how do you prevent people from fasting? Do you force them to eat? Because the news out of the region is very scarce and it is either from one side or another, there really isn't a third opinion to judge the ground situation there.



"Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - *include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting*"



waz said:


> Now this story props up every year during Ramadan. Just how do you prevent people from fasting? Do you force them to eat? Because the news out of the region is very scarce and it is either from one side or another, there really isn't a third opinion to judge the ground situation there.



"Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - *include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting*"

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## Ridd

halupridol said:


> what groups???


OIC

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## ito

Zarvan said:


> A matter of one Muslim is matter of all Muslims and no body can be allowed to attack Muslims or ban them from Islamic things



then where was your voice when taliban is killing pakistanis or sunnis killing shias and ahamdies


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## waz

foxbat said:


> "
> "Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - *include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting*"



The bans are a disgrace. But the whole other stuff and the use of "appear to vary" just seems very vague and I'm not sure if it is actually enforced.

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## sms

Zarvan said:


> A matter of one Muslim is matter of all Muslims and no body can be allowed to attack Muslims or ban them from Islamic things



China is a communist country and there is no pace for religion. If they can or should follow is the communism as their religion. Even if being communist country China allows people to practice religious act to certain extent, it's them being nice to people but it cannot be taken for granted. 

Remember RELIGION is the the easiest motive to get people together and fight and if religion is Muslim it's granted that lot more people will be ready to sacrifice them selves for will of Allah (as if almighty wants them to kill other created by supreme power). 

In short Ban religion 80% problem is solved!!

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## Dem!god

Zarvan said:


> China by these actions are inviting big trouble in these country anger among Muslim world will increase and there fore more groups will start focusing on China


but how will u do that...isn't china ur best friend.... after all this what china has done ur govt. never said a word...even the whole muslim world is silent over their barbarism....
they are killed, searched, massacred , not allowed to do prayers but no one says a word...


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## majesticpankaj

thanks god... India has not done anything like that otherwise... you know there will be blood bath.


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## amitkriit

India must follow Chinese foot-step on this particular matter.


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## JanjaWeed

& China gets away with it.... wow. 
Then again I think religious freedom must be maintained upto a certain level irrespective of your state policy.

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## Jf Thunder

sarjenprabhu said:


> @Jf Thunder , dude you were backing him,,,, see his first reply on this thread...??? It all Warmongering.......... This guy needs a screwdriver


i dont support anyone, i only support the views of someone


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## xuxu1457

"*Government employees and Communist party members* are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*"
What's the matter? this is existing from 1949 to now, only a provision for *Government employees and Communist party members*，but no one let you *must do* that only "*should do*", if you don't no one care about that, just as "you must be kind with others". and as some company let employees to wear formal clothe
NPC deputies：

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## Jf Thunder

i register my protest against this, but how do they know if someone is fasting, like do they force food down student's throats? well that wouldnt break the fast would it?


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## sahaliyan

WishLivePak said:


> Well I took as government being seperate meaning no inteference with religion. You come from work, where you're not permktted to fast and at home you can? There is timing to fasting.
> 
> Second, you yourself said students can't fast. So he's wrong, education and religion are not seperate. religion interfers with education.


Students eat the lunch in schools,and government officilas eat lunch in government eatery,they don't go home to eat.


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## Jf Thunder

Ridd said:


> OIC


OIC is long dead


----------



## Foo_Fighter

I can predict the future already that Pakistani's will start blaming China for their internal conflicts and terrorism (like they do it for USA now) for different reasons. However, due to proximity with China the terrorist virus will spread into China mainland too (we can already see the symptoms). I hope I am very wrong but I have some reasons to have that thought.

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## Ridd

Jf Thunder said:


> OIC is long dead


Precisely my point.

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## WishLivePak

sahaliyan said:


> Students eat the lunch in schools,and government officilas eat lunch in government eatery,they don't go home to eat.


you're clueless

They can't fast at school.

So simple, education is not seperate from religion. Stop acting like a wall. Read my post 10 times before you quote me.


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## Hyperion

Good for you..... just don't wear it in front of likes of @Zarvan........ 



boomslang said:


> I proudly wear an 'Infidel' tee shirt from time to time. 'Infidel'...... what a funny little 7th century word.


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## jkroo

Jf Thunder said:


> i register my protest against this, but how do they know if someone is fasting, like do they force food down student's throats? well that wouldnt break the fast would it?


Bro, this news from thegardian was six years old. To make bad image of China is an easy business to make money and Chinese citizen never buy west propagenda especially after 2008.

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## boomslang

Hyperion said:


> Good for you..... just don't wear it in front of likes of @Zarvan........



WTF is he going to do ? I'd beat his @ss like he was a red headed step child.


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## Hyperion

He'd go Talibitch apeshit on you! 



boomslang said:


> WTF is he going to do ? I'd beat his @ss like he was a red headed step child.


----------



## MarkusS

jkroo said:


> Bro, this news from thegardian was six years old. To make bad image of China is an easy business to make money and Chinese citizen never buy west propagenda especially after 2008.




After 2008? What happened 2008?


----------



## T-123456

pigtaker said:


> Ok, you will see China and Russia join hands to deal with you, that is what the SCO for, driving out america's stooges in this region.
> 
> We will help Kurds have an independent country, while Russia claim back their holy city of Constantine, a move will be welcomed by most eastern europe and even greek. As for turks, go back to mountains to raise goats and weave carpet for a living, while you can still dream your Turan.


You had a dream?

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## cnleio

In authoritarian China, national laws >>> religion.

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## boomslang

Hyperion said:


> He'd go Talibitch apeshit on you!



I'd come at him like a spider monkey.


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## MarkusS

cnleio said:


> In authoritarian China, national laws >>> religion.



doubtful if you consider that the underground church has more members than the official fake church introduced from the reds


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## IndoUS

Their country their rule if you don't like it move to another country. there are many Muslim countries out there, if there is brotherhood then I am sure they will accept you.


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## Screambowl

WishLivePak said:


> Mods should lock this thread... It has been hijacked



Oh really? Who did that? LOL 

It is an important topic, because India also has muslim population, Pakistan is not the only country with Muslims here on earth.


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## MarkusS

IndoUS said:


> Their country their rule.of you don't like it move to another country. there are many Muslim countries out there if there brotherhood then I am sure they will accept.




That depends. When you fight hard enough you decide the rule.


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## cnleio

MarkusS said:


> doubtful if you consider that the underground church has more members than the official fake church introduced from the reds


Maybe, but as far as i knew China official called the underground church as Illegal religion or heresy, BeiJing can use police to catch members down. Like Fa Lung Gong popular in West nations but kicked out from China many years ago.

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## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> That depends. When you fight hard enough you decide the rule.



That's terrorism.

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## sahaliyan

WishLivePak said:


> you're clueless
> 
> They can't fast at school.
> 
> So simple, education is not seperate from religion. Stop acting like a wall. Read my post 10 times before you quote me.


I don't support this decision,but what I said is you as government officials can't be muslims(because only CCP members can be officials,and CCP members not allow to believe in religion),and as students,you can't take part in religious things,that's called the separation of religion and government-education.
Though I think it's wrong,they should let the people volouteer to do what they want to do

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## IndoUS

MarkusS said:


> That depends. When you fight hard enough you decide the rule.


You really think they can go up against the government. If they try anything such cowardly acts as killing innocent people in major cities the only thing they will get is a bullet to the head.


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## SouthDesi

At-least Chinese are doing something to avoid further spreading of terrorism on religious beliefs. What are the other non-Islamic countries like UK, Australia , India etc are doing to stop terrorism? Nothing.

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## MarkusS

cnleio said:


> Maybe, but as far as i knew China official called the underground church as Illegal religion or heresy, BeiJing can use police to catch members down. Like Fa Lung Gong popular in West nations but kicked out from China many years ago.




What the communist regime declares is irrelevant, since all bishops are appointed from the Pope, who has the highest authority. The fake church from the chinese regime is seen as a big joke.



Screambowl said:


> That's terrorism.



No, thats normal struggle. The british imposed their laws on India too. Powers are constantly shifting.



IndoUS said:


> You really think they can go up against the government. If they try anything such cowardly acts as killing innocent people in major cities the only thing they will get is a bullet to the head.



It depends. China already is boiling inside with incredible tensions. The leadership knows this.

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## cnleio

MarkusS said:


> What the communist regime declares is irrelevant, since all bishops are appointed from the Pope, who has the highest authority. The fake church from the chinese regime is seen as a big joke.
> 
> 
> 
> No, thats normal struggle. The british imposed their laws on India too. Powers are constantly shifting.


Talk religions in Communist China, it's a jok specially CCP members believe religions, a true CCP member should be a atheist !
In Mao's time, there's ZERO religion in China. If BeiJing like, they can ban all religions in China again.

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## $elf

China you are doing great to stop future terrorist attacks. 

Also their country, their rules. Who are we? They arent violating any human rights.

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## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> No, thats normal struggle. *The british imposed their laws on India too*. Powers are constantly shifting.





back to topic,
In current scenario, what ever you are saying is a part of terrorism.


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## T-123456

jkroo said:


> Bro, this news from thegardian was six years old. To make bad image of China is an easy business to make money and Chinese citizen never buy west propagenda especially after 2008.


This is old news and not government policy?

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## MarkusS

cnleio said:


> Talk religions in Communist China, it's a jok specially CCP members believe religions.
> In Mao's time, there's ZERO religion in China. If BeiJing like, they can ban all religions in China again.



They can not ban it. Since its always there. Even in North Korea. You can see this at christianity. Fat old Mao was rotting long in his grave and Christianity is still there.



Screambowl said:


> back to topic,
> In current scenario, what ever you are saying is a part of terrorism.




Its not. Its an institutional weakness in te chinese state that can be used perfectly for our interests.


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## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> Its not. Its an institutional weakness in te chinese state that can be used perfectly for our interests.



First Kindly allow non Muslims in Mecca Madina, please change the rule.

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## cnleio

MarkusS said:


> They can not ban it. Since its always there. Even in North Korea. You can see this at christianity. Fat old Mao was rotting long in his grave and Christianity is still there.


If China forget Mao, it's not PRC or Communism China, no space for CCP in China. 

CCP had kicked Fa Lung Gong out, had setup CCP official Church of Jesus Christ not follow the Vatican, also will reform other religions in China by laws. China religions only listen to CCP not foreign institution, Chinese had done and will do it.

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## Audio

UKBengali said:


> From someone who spends all his posts talking down China like most Indians like to do.
> 
> Did you miss, that in GDP PPP, China is the largest economy on the planet now and growing at 7-8% with US at 1-2%?
> 
> Let us wait till 2025 and see who is right.



With you, it's always , let us wait. I bet in 2025, it will be, let us wait some more.



UKBengali said:


> When I gave him proof that manual labour is actually more expensive in inland Henan than coastal Guangdog, he started talking about China's low pensions as proof that Chinese are still impoverished. He did not take into account that children are still expected to take care of their parents in China unlike in the West.



It disingenious for you to not continue this conversation in the apropriate thread, you just ran out from that one. Although i thought i did shut you up by quoting Chinese links that supported my view that there's only 3-400 million middle class in China and the rest are quite poor.
But then again, you're UKBengali. No matter what i debunk, you just go in the next thread and repeat the same like a good Chinese automaton.

More proof about impoverished Chinese this week, those letters in the clothes bought in the UK. And you wanted to give an image there's no more low added value workers in China.


----------



## MarkusS

Screambowl said:


> First Kindly allow non Muslims in Mecca Madina, please change the rule.




You don´t get what i mean. I´m catholic christian and dispise islam. But i see it as positive if it creates trouble in China. You can use that for "divide et impera" policies. China is a rival and you can use such reginal things perfectly to stir up trouble. 

Read Cesare. "de bello gallico"



cnleio said:


> If China forget Mao, it's not PRC or Communism China, no space for CCP in China.
> 
> CCP had kicked Fa Lung Gong out, had setup CCP official Church of Jesus Christ not follow the Vatican, also will reform other religions in China by laws. China religions only listen to CCP not foreign institution, Chinese had done and will do it.




Since the real catholic church has more followers than the dead red bullshit i don´t see a problem.


----------



## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> You don´t get what i mean. I´m catholic christian and dispise islam. But i see it as positive if it creates trouble in China. You can use that for "divide et impera" policies. China is a rival and you can use such reginal things perfectly to stir up trouble.
> 
> Read Cesare. "de bello gallico"
> 
> 
> 
> .



whole arab world is confused what to follow, this is enough to make laws in China.


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## SledgeHammer

Sinan said:


> Officials in China's turbulent north-western region of Xinjiang are tightening restrictions on Muslim practices including mass prayers during Ramadan, according to government notices.
> 
> Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting.
> 
> Religious controls are usually stricter during Ramadan but experts say this year's are noticeably stronger and believe it is the first time they have been published rather than passed on orally.
> 
> A notice on the Zhaosu county website said that ideological education had to be stepped up in the face of "violent and disruptive activities by religious extremists, separatists and terrorists".
> 
> Last month saw the worst violence for a decade with a string of fatal attacks including an assault on police in Kashgar that left 16 officers dead and 16 wounded. No one has claimed responsibility but officials have blamed Uighur separatists.
> 
> Two of the towns that posted notices, Xinhe and Shaya, are near Kuqa, where 11 people died in suicide bombings and police shootings a few days later.
> 
> Around half the population of the vast region of Xinjiang is composed of Muslim Uighurs. *Many resent the religious and cultural restrictions placed upon them* and some seek an independent East Turkestan.
> 
> A note on the Shaya government website said propaganda and inspections should be stepped up during the period. *"Fasting and participation in religious activities by party members and students is forbidden*," it said.
> 
> The note called for stronger security at mosques, saying that officials should "prohibit playing recordings, videos or using loudspeakers to force people to take part in fasting. Work units or individuals are not allowed to hand out religious propaganda in public areas."
> 
> It said people were forbidden from forcing others to fast, attend religious activities or cover their face with veils. "Effective measures" should be taken to ensure people who already had beards and veils removed them, the note said, although it appears it may have been referring to officials and public sector workers.
> 
> A Zhaosu county website notice said officials should "try to reduce Ramadan's influence on society as much as possible".
> 
> It told them to "dissuade people from attending organised and planned worship in large groups in order to prevent mass incidents; prevent, guide and stop situations like closing restaurants during Ramadan, students attending religious activities, women going into mosques with veils and shops stopping selling wines and cigarettes".
> 
> "To the best of my knowledge it's the first time this has been explicitly spelled out in this way - normally these instructions are not put in writing," said Nicholas Bequelin, an expert on Xinjiang at Human Rights Watch. Measures such as the restrictions on restaurants were "definitely more intrusive than before," he said.
> 
> "What has been driving these increasingly invasive restrictions on religious and cultural behaviour is the fear that Uighurs are not loyal to the party and government," Bequelin said. "It used to be the case that some cadres in the 80s and early 90s were clearly religious. That's not possible any more because the state sees what it regards as ostentatious religiosity as an act of defiance towards the government."



Nothing new, China bans Ramadan fasting every year, there are several old threads from previous years on this topic.

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## MarkusS

Screambowl said:


> whole arab world is confused what to follow, this is enough to make laws in China.




The "confused" arab world is another perfect example for "divide et impera". It works perfect there.


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## $@rJen

Jf Thunder said:


> i dont support anyone, i only support the views of someone



What View??? Waging war ????????????? His main view was that China has so many new weapons and PLA is irking to Use them, so He's pointing India and says there's only one way to convince India..

Is that the view you're supporting
??????

He also said to join with Russia to capture Turkey.... Poor Fellow doesn't even know China has border problem with Russia and Russia is so aware of Chinese moves....

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## cloud_9

This topic is a real dilemma for Indians as it's pretty hard to decide between Muslims and China....whom we hate the most 

Reminds me of Ahmed Ahmed's stand up.


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## cnleio

MarkusS said:


> Since the real catholic church has more followers than the dead red bullshit i don´t see a problem.


The same as millions of Fa Lung Gong followers in China before, CCP still can ban it, now Fa Lung Gong almost disappeared in China only popular in the West.

I remeber 10years ago, the Fa Lung Gong's power so strong their followers ever protest to seize Zhong-nan-hai of CCP central government's building in BeiJing, now the religion has disappeared in mainland of China.

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## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> The "confused" arab world is another perfect example for "divide et impera". It works perfect there.



then why don't you go for vacations in Iraq to experience 'divide et impera' .


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## Audio

Hyperion said:


> I speak my mind. I reserve the right



Everyone else also speaks their mind, and reserves their right. And if you need to lash out with "_yank poodles, yank watch dogs_" after i comment on one of your nuggets of wisdom, that's your fault.

But the hypocrisy is that you then accuse me of loosing my nerves. And patting yourself on the back saying "i did it". It's comical.


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## Hyperion

Come one mate...... wasn't that statement factual? Uncle Sam keeps it's poodle (UK) next to it's heart..... yet keeps you guys at an arm length, expecting you to do your duty with vigor and without question............ where was I wrong in my statement???............ I coined the word "Uncle Sam's poodle", way back in the 80's for the Brits. Trust you me, I have a feeling that Uncle Sam's Watch Dog will stick in a similar manner............... 



Audio said:


> Everyone else also speaks their mind, and reserves their right. And if you need to lash out with "_yank poodles, yank watch dogs_" after i comment on one of your nuggets of wisdom, that's your fault.


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## MarkusS

cnleio said:


> The same as millions of Fa Lung Gong followers in China before, CCP still can ban it, now Fa Lung Gong almost disappeared in China only popular in the West.
> 
> I remeber 10years ago, the Fa Lung Gong's power so strong their followers ever protest to seize Zhong-nan-hai of CCP central government's building in BeiJing, now the religion has disappeared in mainland of China.




You can think what you want. Numbers say China will be the most christian nation in about 20 years and i´m sure will outlive the reds by decades .

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## Audio

Raphael said:


> I think Audio is the longest running Indian false-flagger on PDF. Apparently, he still holds firm to his original cover story, that he's a "Slovene" .



Who are you to question @WebMaster 's skill in finding out false flaggers?


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## Dubious

China doesnt interfere in our state affairs no matter how stupid our state goes! And our stupid state doesnt interfere in the problems! 

India, US, UK on the other hand keep advocating shit in their newspapers about Pakistan....See the difference...

We are not blind (not that we need to announce this but sadly stupidity comes in masses) but if they have not said anything to our govt no matter how shitty it goes...why should we object to theirs? Yes human rights and all...we have similar problems...heck! Silence is a killer and sadly many are dying!

But...I am not sure *why Indians are pissed* all over the thread* I dont see any Indians talking about the topic all they do is come here to count pages, post number or sneer! How better is that than the Pakistani members who did not comment?*

*I mean honestly speaking were it a thread on Pakistan, Indians rush in....thread on China, Indians rush in, thread on US, Indians rush in....and when its a thread on India they cry and point that our own country is a mess..Well where was this "your country is also in a mess" when they rush in Pakistani, Chinese, British, American affairs?
*


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## MarkusS

Screambowl said:


> then why don't you go for vacations in Iraq to experience 'divide et impera' .




Why should i? I prefer Dubai. Its close from Iraq, ruled from anotehr puppet dictator clan. I had a great time there last march. I could have fun there and do things that would be impossible in a united arab nation.


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## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> Why should i? I prefer Dubai. Its close from Iraq, ruled from anotehr puppet dictator clan. I had a great time there last march. I could have fun there and do things that would be impossible in a united arab nation.



No, this time go to Iraq, Syria, Palestine, etc.. little bit north. You will have fun.


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## Audio

Hyperion said:


> Come one mate...... wasn't that statement factual? Uncle Sam keeps it's poodle (UK) next to it's heart..... yet keeps you guys at an arm length, expecting you to do your duty with vigor and without question............ where was I wrong in my statement???............ I coined the word "Uncle Sam's poodle", way back in the 80's for the Brits. Trust you me, I have a feeling that Uncle Sam's Watch Dog will stick in a similar manner...............



Let's take Ukraine. And Ms. Nuland's comments.
Was that conversation made in a spirit of "EU does our bidding" or was it more "EU doesn't do what we want". ?

Is the hesitation on implementing sanctions that would hurt EU companies and €, but strengthen US ones and $, poodlish?


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## cnleio

MarkusS said:


> You can think what you want. Numbers say China will be the most christian nation in about 20 years and i´m sure will outlive the reds by decades .


I think CCP will ban the numbers, don't forget China is a atheism communist nation. Religion isn't protected by police & army, CCP control state violence forces.

When some religion hurt CCP's interest, Communist will destroy it in China.
Of course if CCP members start to believe religion, it means some religion destroy Communism & CCP in China.

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## eazzy

WishLivePak said:


> Nothing is stupid if done 'properly.' For example, secretly without it making it in the news. Many stupid things happen in world and continue to occur because they don't catch media.
> 
> Example, no one heard a case in Quebec/Canada where people submitted petition in somewhat *banning of muslim prayers*. It didn't become law, but nonetheless had support from various people to make it to the courts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since you're from france... It's in french.



No it's just stupid. China want to stop terrorists. This is helping them. That's why it's a stupid. Doesn't matter if no one outside Xinjiang hear about it.

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## TaiShang

Chinese are pragmatist. At best, Jesus will take its rightful place among many gods that an average Chinese believe in. LOL LOL. He is nothing but a cult figure, already. Chinese mindset will never accept a god that is not mundane.

I have visited so many places where these believers believe in Jesus but at the same time continue ancestor worship.

Nothing really extraordinary. Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion, like Islam and Judaism and I expect it to go back where it came from as Europe turns atheist in large numbers. Islam will be the dominant religion in the West. China has been subject to so many different cultural in-flows and all has been absorbed and Sinicized. Jesus is no greater than the Chinese culture. CCP is the greatest political power.

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## jammersat

... and israel , you haven't seen the arab world , until you've seen israel , so says the commercial


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## Dubious

Just out of curiosity: 


Sinan said:


> No one has claimed responsibility but *officials have blamed Uighur separatists*.


 Without proof?



Sinan said:


> this year's are noticeably stronger and believe it is the* first time they have been published* rather* than passed on orally*.


 So they are implementing it...



Sinan said:


> "Fasting and participation in religious activities by *party members and students* is forbidden," it said.


 So is the restriction only for govt officials, party members and students? I agree with @waz how does 1 force you not to fast? Force feeding?



Sinan said:


> *officials* should "prohibit playing recordings, videos or using loudspeakers to force people to take part in fasting.


 So no preaching..



Sinan said:


> forbidden from *forcing* others to fast, attend religious activities or cover their face with veils.


 How do you force one to fast?



Sinan said:


> the note said, although it appears it may have been *referring to officials and public sector workers*.


 Again my question is it only for officials? and how can govt regulate public sector workers?



Sinan said:


> *fear *that Uighurs are not loyal to the party and government,"


 Fear really is a killer!


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## Dubious

sarjenprabhu said:


> Na.. in this case Pakistanis can't rush because its about Pakistanis poking Chinese which they don't want because *their Papa* doesn't like..... That's the only different


Or maybe because we dont see Chinese on our threads where Indians poke their unwanted noses! 

Of course from your language I can already see the jealousy smoke

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## Screambowl

MarkusS said:


> You don´t understand it. To create cool places where we rule, we must cause trouble in other areas. Thats normal tactic. Can i have beach parties with some hot girls in iraq, syria and so on? Nope. Same reason i would not travel Somalia.



neither in saudi nor in dubai you will see bikini girls roaming on streets


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## halupridol

Akheilos said:


> China doesnt interfere in our state affairs no matter how stupid our state goes! And our stupid state doesnt interfere in the problems!
> 
> India, US, UK on the other hand keep advocating shit in their newspapers about Pakistan....See the difference...
> 
> We are not blind (not that we need to announce this but sadly stupidity comes in masses) but if they have not said anything to our govt no matter how shitty it goes...why should we object to theirs? Yes human rights and all...we have similar problems...heck! Silence is a killer and sadly many are dying!
> 
> But...I am not sure *why Indians are pissed* all over the thread* I dont see any Indians talking about the topic all they do is come here to count pages, post number or sneer! How better is that than the Pakistani members who did not comment?*
> 
> *I mean honestly speaking were it a thread on Pakistan, Indians rush in....thread on China, Indians rush in, thread on US, Indians rush in....and when its a thread on India they cry and point that our own country is a mess..Well where was this "your country is also in a mess" when they rush in Pakistani, Chinese, British, American affairs?*



but i am still right,,,,,we wud have witnessed a sh#tstorm of epic proportions here on pdf,if this happened in any other country(US for ex.) 
instead we see meek n polite condemnation/protest from pdf Pakistanis
come on now admit it,,,,u know it too

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## Dubious

sarjenprabhu said:


> *Why do i give a f about some muslims banged in China*... Pakistanis love to put their nose in Indian Muslims* why not Chinese Muslims Issue*???????? Double standard as always..


 Of course you dont...hence I pointed out the disgusting behaviour of Indians to come in this thread and count pages and look how many Pakistani members commented ...I have already answered why not Chinese issues...Maybe your English is pathetic or you are just blind when it comes to answers!


sarjenprabhu said:


> Jealous!!!!


 Your tapori langauge speaks of it!


sarjenprabhu said:


> Dude you've a country where *sunni kill Shia* evey other day... Do you really think Indians will be Jealous or when we think in a Savior's country people kill each other our head would blast of laughing ???????


 No but you do poke your noses that is not deniable! Reported for derailing!


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## Dem!god

How do you force one to
fast? @Akheilos

err... i think by not allowing them to eat in night or in the day break time....u can't fast for whole month ...if u will not eat in night...then u will have to eat in day....

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## Dubious

Dem!god said:


> u can't fast for whole month ...if u will not eat in night...then u will have to eat in day....


Err...they monitor you in your homes at night? now that is freaky!

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## $@rJen

Akheilos said:


> Your tapori langauge speaks of it!



I don't even know what's that mean.... but i can clearly see your frustration


----------



## OrionHunter

Sinan said:


> And there is something else.... when one side spits on your face, but you still love them....


Spot on! If this happened in India, Pakistan would have passed a resolution in their parliament against Indian 'atrocities against Muslims'! 

And yahoos like the Establishment's spokesman, General Hafiz Saeed and the DPC would have gone to town lambasting India.

But this is China they have to deal with, seeing that their relations are higher than the mountains, stronger than steel, sweeter than honey, and deeper than the oceans.

They don't want to ruffle Chinese feathers, do they? This is what one calls hypocrisy of the highest order! So what's new?

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## $@rJen

Akheilos said:


> Oh I am soo sorry I didnt know your English was that pathetic!
> That answer was to what I quoted:



First learn to write without mistakes then come and point at me about English. losers always attack personally when they can't answer.

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## Dem!god

Akheilos said:


> Err...they monitor you in your homes at night? now that is freaky!


i don't know....but if it come to that...i beleive chinese can do anything....
and no one in the world will know...

even if u say they ask one person to eat something in day time in front of them, he has to comply to the police... and once done his whole month waste away....


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## Dubious

sarjenprabhu said:


> Buddy... the same *disgusting behavior *of Pakistanis run all over the Indian threads in this forum...


 Oh dont tell me about disgusting when you are on this thread saying :


sarjenprabhu said:


> Why do i give a f about some muslims banged in China


Yet still stuck on the thread to count Pakistanis? Look whose disgusting!



sarjenprabhu said:


> Once again don't act as an Angel* you're not worth* it as you're another *pakistani double standard*.


 This is what losers do! ^^ call names ...



sarjenprabhu said:


> what Chinese issues??? and you've* not answered anything*.... "they don't interfering in our internal matter so we don't interfering in their internal matter"* is not really an answer* from a pakistani when they love to interfere in other countries issues on Muslim related problems.... Once again Double standards


 Wow your English is really pathetic! Well, that was your job to brush up on it! It is an answer you cant digest coz you dont want to..Not my fault...




sarjenprabhu said:


> Losers do that a lot


 @Aeronaut @WebMaster @Jungibaaz @Manticore @Oscar @Chak Bamu @T-Faz @test @blain2 I thought if someone is derailing , not talking about the topic but sitting and even insulting the topic, counting how many Pakistanis came or how many pages moved ...basically doing everything but contributing is supposed to be reported...If one who reports is gonna be called a loser...than alot of people are gonna take matters in their own hands, right?



sarjenprabhu said:


> First learn to write without mistakes then come and point at me about English. losers always attack personally when they can't answer.


Point out my mistakes.. Mr. problems with English!


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## $@rJen

Akheilos said:


> and I said...there are more Indians...so you can do the maths!



There are more Indians that doesn't mean they all would jump.... and there are more muslims in this forums than the Indians, I suggest you to do the math. you'll are in the same categories

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## Dubious

Dem!god said:


> i don't know....but if it come to that...i beleive chinese can do anything....
> and no one in the world will know...
> 
> even if u say they *ask one person to eat something in day time in front of them,* he has to comply to the police... and *once done his whole month waste away*....


Well until and unless it reaches that point I am not going to speculate that far! 

And if you eat once or are under force...it doesnt waste your 1 day fast how did you jump to wastage of the whole month?

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## $@rJen

Akheilos said:


> Everyone knows the mobbing attitude of Indians...go pick any thread where Indians are bashing...You will see a group singling 1 Pakistani...Yup it takes a group to bring down 1 Pakistani.



Look an angel is talking....


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## Dubious

sarjenprabhu said:


> *There are more Indians that doesn't mean they all would jump.*...


 You think? @Windjammer he needs prove that Indians dont jump on a thread! Any such thread running or should we create an example?


sarjenprabhu said:


> and there are *more muslims* in this forums than the Indians, I suggest you to do the math. you'll are in the same categories


  Really? Is that what they told you coz almost all (except prob 5 or something members from India) told me they are atheist! 
So with more Indian members on the forum and except 5 who are either Hindu, Muslim or Christian...now you do the maths!


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## MarkusS

Screambowl said:


> neither in saudi nor in dubai you will see bikini girls roaming on streets



But at our hotel areal. I can show you if you want. I have some pics with them. ;p One was from Hongkong and the other from Singapore.  They did like me alpt. ;p


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## $@rJen

Akheilos said:


> Yet still stuck on the thread to count Pakistanis? Look whose disgusting!



Ha ah ah again why should i give a F about the Muslims in China getting banged??? you went all the way back to two pages to find this reply and quote me??? who's pathetic ?????????????


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## Mugwop

I have Muslim friends in Beijing who are fasting.

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## 55100864

Fu*k, the whole shoutbox is dominated by China issues, we don't like this, we like to keep low profile unlike some attention whore dying countries jumping like monkeys.
why don't just everyone mind their own business just like we never give a single shit whatever happens outside China?

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## Dubious

Mugwop said:


> I have Muslim friends in Beijing who are fasting.


Naah...not until those friends are interviewed and in some article no one will believe ya!

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## Jlaw

MarkusS said:


> You don´t get what i mean. I´m catholic christian and dispise islam. But i see it as positive if it creates trouble in China. You can use that for "divide et impera" policies. China is a rival and you can use such reginal things perfectly to stir up trouble.
> 
> Read Cesare. "de bello gallico"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since the real catholic church has more followers than the dead red bullshit i don´t see a problem.


Jesus hates rich people , why follow such a moronic religion?

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## MarkusS

Jlaw said:


> Jesus hates rich people , why follow such a moronic religion?



Jesus does not hate rich people. Jesus teaches that you have to help others. If you are stronger you also have more responsibility.

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## Jlaw

55100864 said:


> Fu*k, the whole shoutbox is dominated by China issues, we don't like this, we like to keep low profile unlike some attention whore dying countries jumping like monkeys.
> why don't just everyone mind their own business just like we never give a single shit whatever happens outside China?


Their divide and conquer strategy combined with giving a bad image to China to destabilize China's growth. We all know these tricks but it can only fool foreigners and some hk people with NGO financing.

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## halupridol

Akheilos said:


> I admitted this: ...*You rush in our threads you get same response*...*Chinese rarely to never rush in our matter so why should we in theirs?* Just a question your mate ( @sarjenprabhu ) is choking on


yeh agar UK me ho jata toh yaha ghadar mach jati,,,,,China hai isiliye sab chup chap hai,,aap bhi
OTH national interests trumping ummah ,,,,thats gud

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## Dubious

halupridol said:


> yeh agar UK me ho jata toh yaha ghadar mach jati,,,,,China hai isiliye sab chup chap hai,,aap bhi
> OTH national interests trumping ummah ,,,,thats gud


I have already posted ....post 156  

Well, UK loves giving us orders so when something happens yea we do question it...

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## 55100864

Jlaw said:


> Their divide and conquer strategy combined with giving a bad image to China to destabilize China's growth. We all know these tricks but it can only fool foreigners and some hk people with NGO financing.


They are too lonely i guess, like ruttish bitches waiting for a big fu(k.

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## Jlaw

MarkusS said:


> Jesus does not hate rich people. Jesus teaches that you have to help others. If you are stronger you also have more responsibility.


You really have to read the bible. I'm surprised you don't know this passage. I leave it to you to Google

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## VelocuR

bashing China again?

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## MarkusS

Jlaw said:


> You really have to read the bible. I'm surprised you don't know this passage. I leave it to you to Google



I dont need google. I know my bible. : Jesus hates nobody.


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## Jlaw

MarkusS said:


> I dont need google. I know my bible. : Jesus hates nobody.



No you and other so called christians do not read your holy gospel but listen to fraudster priests. Here is the quote:

(Matthew 19:24-25)
24:And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how difficult it is to enter the kingdom of God!
25: *It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.”*

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## Audio

Akheilos said:


> Thats good to each their own...isnt that the slogan Indians use when Israel or America does something against freedom of religion: "their land their laws" Why is that slogan not uplifted for China?



Umm i only commented on your question why do the Chinese not comment on Pakistani threads. As for your further question, i do not know, nor do i care much, as far as i'm concerned they can ban religion alltogether.

Signed: #HeathenScum™

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## KingMamba

Screambowl said:


> First Kindly allow non Muslims in Mecca Madina, please change the rule.



Non-Muslims can go to Medina, they however cannot enter Mecca. Why did you want to make a trip? It has been this way since time immemorial and will not change anytime.



Audio said:


> You don't see them because they are not paid to comment on your inner issues. Take a good look around, you don't see them commenting much about anything other than China.



Lol the 50 cent theory.

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## Bobby




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## Screambowl

KingMamba said:


> What rules are you talking about?



the rules which prohibits muslims to keep roza in China.

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## KingMamba

eazzy said:


> I don't know of its true or not, but it would probably be the most stupid thing to do. It's basically saying "Yes, terrorist are here to protect you from us, you should probably side with them".



True this actually helps ETIM as a recruitment message. 



Screambowl said:


> the rules which prohibits muslims to keep roza in China.



Muslims do keep roza in China, my uncle in Beijing fasts every year. Chinese also have more ethnic Chinese Muslims than Uigher Muslims.

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## Reashot Xigwin

Dumbass Move


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## Icarus

Sinan said:


> Now there is friendship, both sides respects to each other.
> 
> And there is something else.... when one side spits on your face, but you still love them....




How is this "Spitting on our face"? These are Chinese nationals we are talking about, the decisions taken by the state regarding its subjects cannot in any way, be a source of humiliation for us, or in anyway force us to reassess the nature of our interaction with them.

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## Icarus

沐玛丶 said:


> 你们对中国的了解有多少？




No but it I do have a superior understanding of China's relationship with Pakistan.

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## Jlaw

KingMamba said:


> English please.



Do you have a good understanding about China?

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## Screambowl

KingMamba said:


> Muslims do keep roza in China, my uncle in Beijing fasts every year. Chinese also have more ethnic Chinese Muslims than Uigher Muslims.



just by keeping roza hiding at home so that no one knows, is not religious freedom.


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## KingMamba

Screambowl said:


> just by keeping roza hiding at home so that no one knows, is not religious freedom.



LMaoooo so what if they go outside food is crammed down their throat by force? Btw do they have to pay for this food or is it free?

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## KingMamba

SouthDesi said:


> Curios to know, how will they identify non-Muslims and restrict them from entering?



They cannot really but if they find out a non Muslim entered they just show them the way out. There have been instances of non Muslims driving into Mecca by accident and leaving once they realized it. There have also been instances when people pretended they were Muslim by reciting the shahadah and entered Mecca. It is really not entirely enforceable.

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## Dubious

SouthDesi said:


> Curios to know, how will they identify non-Muslims and restrict them from entering?


 Passport....some form of identity 



Screambowl said:


> just by keeping roza* hiding at home *so that no one knows, is not religious freedom.


So one who fasts in a Muslim country goes out and dances? If its boiling hot most do prefer to stay at home!


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## waz

MarkusS said:


> You can think what you want. Numbers say China will be the most christian nation in about 20 years and i´m sure will outlive the reds by decades .



No Marcus it won't be. The Chinese are atheist to the core and view Christianity as an extension of Western imperialist rubbish but with a superstitious flavour to it.

There is even Chinese on this thread speaking against Christianity. 

It's the same when people say Islam will conquer Europe and other nonsense. It won't, why? Because the population is sceptical about it and it makes them think of earlier historical events.

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## waz

sarjenprabhu said:


> Na.. in this case Pakistanis can't rush because its about Pakistanis poking Chinese which they don't want because their Papa doesn't like..... That's the only different



Plenty of Pakistanis have spoken about it. If you choose to ignore it then that is your problem.

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## Indian Tiger

No groups/country can do any harm to China, because their growth is completely on their own and well with in their lines. Which country is gonna stand against this decision? no one, not even muslim countries. Have toured china, malaysia, singapore for the past few months, their integration as chinese(china) is bigger than any religion, actually even they dont care about these. Seriously, I am jealous of their culture, tradition and growth. Chinese are very strong even in Malaysia &Singapore and part of the decision making bodies. Went to pubs/bars with them and interacted with many, they dont feel any restriction, my socalled impressions about china/chinese were wrong.

Really they outclassed everyone everywhere.

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## 沐玛丶

waz said:


> No Marcus it won't be. The Chinese are atheist to the core and view Christianity as an extension of Western imperialist rubbish but with a superstitious flavour to it.


我声明下，中国不是无神论只是信仰的神不统一，我提个例子，你能要求全世界的人都说中文吗？你不能，因为每个国家都有自己，语言沟通方式，孔子说过“己所不欲，勿施于人”你能理解吗？

China is not atheism, belief in God is not only a uniform, you can ask people around the world speak Chinese? You can not, because each country has its own language to communicate, Confucius said, "Do unto others, do not impose on others", can you understand?

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## 55100864

Chinese culture is extremely assimilative，and chinese never accept foreign things，u can find chinese in every countries, u may say they do not integrate, they speak poor english, they only interact within chinese community, and we have zero interest in spreading our culture and values. its not racism, after all, we are the biggest trader in the world. 
Whoever invade China, they became chinese, not we became them, Mongol and Manchu are examples.​

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## 沐玛丶

55100864 said:


> Chinese culture is extremely assimilative，and chinese never accept foreign things，u can find chinese in every countries, u may say they do not integrate, they speak poor english, they only interact within chinese community, and we have zero interest in spreading our culture and values. its not racism, after all, we are the biggest trader in the world.
> Whoever invade China, they became chinese, not we became them, Mongol and Manchu are examples.​


讽刺？
The irony?


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## Hyperion

You are an uber moron. Many people from South Asia, who frequent this site are very well to do. And about your 3 week adventure, let me bust your bubble, I own a house in Majorca, one in Lanzarote, one in Cyprus, villa in Istanbul, one in London, 7 in Dubai and have absolutely no idea how many more my mom owns around the world....

You can't even imagine the sort of parties I've been invited to...... so shut your trap about "us" Asians. I bet, we spend more money on education than you see all your miserable lives....... I know Italians, and their HUGE mouths very well..... that is if you are an Italian....... 



MarkusS said:


> Thats not an "Illuminati" theory. Its simply the principle of economy and the free market. Didn´t you learn economics in your Madrassa?
> 
> I´m a normal trainee and earn propably up to 20 times of what a average worker in india or pakistan gets. We live in a totally different world than you guys do and i realized this first time i was invited into this forum. The world is much smaller for you guys. I see the entire world as my playground. Cruise in the mediterranean, 3 week adventure tour through new zealand, one week party in Dubai, visiting friends in Atlanta and plan a weekend with my sister in London. Thats totally alien for most "eastern guys" here. I´m sure 90% never left their country. Their world ends at their boarder. Because of that you see all this senseless war, domination and fighting about some rocks.
> 
> Your nations conflicts look so irrelevant from outside.

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## Icarus

Armstrong said:


> She abused you & you were alright with it ?




I do realize that we look alike, sharing striking similarities with people from Western and Northern India. I did correct her and tell her that I'm from Pakistan and not a lord of any sort though, I wasn't offended by it.

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## Jf Thunder

jkroo said:


> Bro, this news from thegardian was six years old. To make bad image of China is an easy business to make money and Chinese citizen never buy west propagenda especially after 2008.


ok then, i withdraw my protest, yay


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## 55100864

Bobby said:


> kjdffsjasd;l ds;lkfds ;lsdf s;dfks'lkkdsf ;sdfk


U have no idea do u

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## suresh1773

Akheilos said:


> I think you fell in the wrong thread..if not reported for derailing since the thread is clearly about China


Rightly said,I got carried away,that should not be the case.Thanks for correcting me,the thread is about China

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## Scorpion666

heheh.... nice ... when there are instances of anti islamic activities and religious oppression in ... hmmm say Burma, India, Sri-lanka, Israel ... europe et all .... the pakistani blood boils... but if sweet as honey china does something like in this article.. they dont give as much as a F**K


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## Icarus

Scorpion666 said:


> heheh.... nice ... when there are instances of anti islamic activities and religious oppression in ... hmmm say Burma, India, Sri-lanka, Israel ... europe et all .... the pakistani blood boils... but if sweet as honey china does something like in this article.. they dont give as much as a F**K



Go through the thread before posting, many people have raised concerns about the policy and have offered condemnation with regards to it.

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## Kaniska

jammersat said:


> no seriously the chinese people are too good a people for their own good
> That's why some serious a-brats pops up among them from time to time



Dude....nothing is good or bad in absolute term...If China is not powerful nation then it would have been hounded by the Islamic nations in the same way as other nations...Power projects impacts all...Take an example of your nation...Most of the Muslim nations supports you for your stand against West while directly dealing with them to get benifits..Because they are weak enough to fight against West and because you are perceived enough to be a rival powerful nation among Muslim nation so you command respect.....

As long as China is powerful no one will raise eyebrows..the moment it has any weakness, dogs are there to pound at it..

But personally i like the way China deals with its citizens in its nation...Nation should be a primary thing rather than the religion...


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## Scorpion666

Icarus said:


> Go through the thread before posting, many people have raised concerns about the policy and have offered condemnation with regards to it.


so ?
i have a right to put my point across .....


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## Kaniska

Zarvan said:


> A matter of one Muslim is matter of all Muslims and no body can be allowed to attack Muslims or ban them from Islamic things



The world is smart enough to understand how Islamic nations take care of their so called own people...Middle east war that is going is an classic example...So before saying that one Muslim matter is for all Muslims then why do not you sort out the problem created by your own Muslim breathern in your NW area and in Iraq,Syria and so many other places around the world where people are dying like anything becuase Muslims are fighting among themselves..


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## Multani

Sinan said:


> Officials in China's turbulent north-western region of Xinjiang are tightening restrictions on Muslim practices including mass prayers during Ramadan, according to government notices.
> 
> Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting.
> 
> Religious controls are usually stricter during Ramadan but experts say this year's are noticeably stronger and believe it is the first time they have been published rather than passed on orally.
> 
> A notice on the Zhaosu county website said that ideological education had to be stepped up in the face of "violent and disruptive activities by religious extremists, separatists and terrorists".
> 
> Last month saw the worst violence for a decade with a string of fatal attacks including an assault on police in Kashgar that left 16 officers dead and 16 wounded. No one has claimed responsibility but officials have blamed Uighur separatists.
> 
> Two of the towns that posted notices, Xinhe and Shaya, are near Kuqa, where 11 people died in suicide bombings and police shootings a few days later.
> 
> Around half the population of the vast region of Xinjiang is composed of Muslim Uighurs. *Many resent the religious and cultural restrictions placed upon them* and some seek an independent East Turkestan.
> 
> A note on the Shaya government website said propaganda and inspections should be stepped up during the period. *"Fasting and participation in religious activities by party members and students is forbidden*," it said.
> 
> The note called for stronger security at mosques, saying that officials should "prohibit playing recordings, videos or using loudspeakers to force people to take part in fasting. Work units or individuals are not allowed to hand out religious propaganda in public areas."
> 
> It said people were forbidden from forcing others to fast, attend religious activities or cover their face with veils. "Effective measures" should be taken to ensure people who already had beards and veils removed them, the note said, although it appears it may have been referring to officials and public sector workers.
> 
> A Zhaosu county website notice said officials should "try to reduce Ramadan's influence on society as much as possible".
> 
> It told them to "dissuade people from attending organised and planned worship in large groups in order to prevent mass incidents; prevent, guide and stop situations like closing restaurants during Ramadan, students attending religious activities, women going into mosques with veils and shops stopping selling wines and cigarettes".
> 
> "To the best of my knowledge it's the first time this has been explicitly spelled out in this way - normally these instructions are not put in writing," said Nicholas Bequelin, an expert on Xinjiang at Human Rights Watch. Measures such as the restrictions on restaurants were "definitely more intrusive than before," he said.
> 
> "What has been driving these increasingly invasive restrictions on religious and cultural behaviour is the fear that Uighurs are not loyal to the party and government," Bequelin said. "It used to be the case that some cadres in the 80s and early 90s were clearly religious. That's not possible any more because the state sees what it regards as ostentatious religiosity as an act of defiance towards the government."
> 
> China officials tighten restrictions on Muslim practices | World news | theguardian.com
> China bans Muslims from fasting during Holy Ramadan



@LegionnairE do you don't give a crap about this too?

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## -SINAN-

Icarus said:


> How is this "Spitting on our face"? These are Chinese nationals we are talking about, the decisions taken by the state regarding its subjects cannot in any way, be a source of humiliation for us, or in anyway force us to reassess the nature of our interaction with them.



Everybody can make his own judgement. This is my judgement, you can think differently from me, no problem.

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## BoQ77

Will they force Muslim people eat non-Halal food ?

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## -SINAN-

BoQ77 said:


> Will they force Muslim people eat non-Halal food ?



*Hunger striking Uighur prisoner in China insists innocence*

Chinese authorities arrested a prominent Uyghur scholar for "separatist activities" has maintained his innocence from jail as his lawyer was allowed to meet him for the first time in months. 

An economics professor at Beijing's Minzu University, Ilham Tohti, was taken to his native East Turkestan (Xinjiang) after being detained by the police in January. 

Tohti's lawyer, Li Fangping, saw him on Thursday and learned that his client was put in shackles for three weeks upon arrival at the jail. 

*"He went on a hunger strike for some 10 days in January after they refused to provide him with Muslim food," *Li told CNN on Friday. "They also denied him food for about 10 days in March after the Kunming incident." 

"He looked okay but said he lost 16 kilograms and complained about ailments throughout the body, including in the liver, heart and eyes," Li added.

Li said Tohti emphasized that he has never supported separatism.

Hunger striking Uighur prisoner in China insists innocence | Asia-Pasific | Worldbulletin News

"He reiterated that he has advocated to improve the rule of law, democracy and ethnic harmony in Xinjiang," Li said.

Maya Wang, a Hong Kong-based researcher for Human Rights Watch said, "Unfortunately, the government is more interested in projecting what it wishes to do in Xinjiang rather than looking at what the real problems and ethnic grievances are in the region."

Seems like Chinese are already doing this. Some people in the world still living with medieval age mentality and says that they are going to surpass USA... just laughable.

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## Alfa-Fighter

Icarus said:


> Go through the thread before posting, many people have raised concerns about the policy and have offered condemnation with regards to it.


No more then couple Pak poster raises concerns , only trying to tell difference attitude and cultural difference , justifying / protect then things of china.


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## pigtaker

Sinan said:


> You can't do shıt and you know it. Only Chinese internet wariors words are big nothing more.


butt burning ? of course we can. we have tons of dollars no elsewhere to go, over capacity of arms manufaturing, cooperation of Russia and willpower, nothing is missing here. Turkey is gone, xinjiang will be quite forever.

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## notsuperstitious

Icarus said:


> I attribute this difference in attitude to a difference in culture, you have culture based on cut throat competition, monetary success and materialistic hoarding on the other hand, Asian cultures lay greater emphasis on communal well being, loyalty and family. Family not in the sense that you know family, to us everyone who is remotely associated with us is family and are thus our responsibility. We pool resources and share in each other's successes and failures, which is why even with over 600,000+ registered IDPs from NWA, we have a fraction of them staying in IDP camps, the rest have been accommodated by friends and family into their homes.
> For us, success is not measured in euros, it is measured in happiness and wellbeing.


 
Sir while I do not disagree with what you have posted, I'd urge you to look at this slighly differently too. I mean look at our civic sense, and it can be argued that the west is much more community conscious and we are individualistic?

Also those eastern countries that have become rich, you will find them much more materialistic and competitive than most western countries, look at korea, singapore for example.

My point is, as always, its not black and white. Sorry for the digression.


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## jkroo

Hey, @Sinan could you please answer me the following questions?


jkroo said:


> I would like to learn something from @Sinan and hence ask you some questions:
> 1. When these news was released and are we well informed?
> 2. Do you know China government is secular or not?
> 3. Do you know a religious person can join CCP?
> 4. What do you think thegardien's reputation in China and in Turkey(including BBC)?
> 5. What's the arrangements of Turkey's secular government for Islamic festival?
> 6. Do you know how many ethnic groups in China who practice Islamic religion?
> 7. Do you know how many mosques in China and the rank of the total religious facilities?
> 8. Do you know China's religion policies?
> 9. What is the religious structure(people practice different religions) of Turkey and do you know the Chinese?
> Thank you in advance.





Sinan said:


> Talk again, when you do something as China besides barking on internet forum sites.

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## Spring Onion

Sinan said:


> Now there is friendship, both sides respects to each other.
> 
> And there is something else.... when one side spits on your face, but you still love them....




1. How it is spitting on our face? have they put the ban on our citizens or theirs?

2. Now coming to what some people are expecting form us then iw ill say 


A. Being friend of China is one thing and raising our voice for Muslim rights is another.

Being Muslims we should and we can only condemn this act of China just like we do when some other country put such unjustified bans. Now if you are expecting us to cut off diplomatic ties with China or trade or defence well thats STUPID

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## Ghostwhowalks

posting here after a long time. I said this before and I will say it again. Chinese HATE muslims. Period. Their "friendship" with Pak is just one of convenience to contain India. So long as Pak keeps India occupied, China can concentrate on Russia, US and Japan. China has only one policy- China first- and they will do what it takes to achieve that. Muslims and their way of life is a threat to the Chinese identity and the CCP will leave no stone unturned to crush them.

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## TaiShang

jkroo said:


> Hey, @Sinan could you please answer me the following questions?



My dear friend @jkroo , the best policy is simply remain indifferent to threads that do not add value to our discussion of China's great revival and are designed as flame-makers.

It is good to see that so far this thread is limited to discussion between non Chinese members. Should stay that way. As we ignore this kind of threads often started by anti-China members, they will quietly revert back to their own quarters.

Apparently, our indifference to these people's own problems does not teach a lesson. So, we can better stop feeding them here on our own section as probably we will never bother to even worry about their own particular problems, which are many. They may keep worrying about ours -- real and imaginary.

There will be, believe me, no constructive discussion, and no body will change their mind. Our best response should be our actions that speak for themselves.

I, therefore, suggest all good friends from the Greater China and elsewhere, to ignore such threads, including this one. That's possibly the heaviest blow to a troll and other programmed (default) China-haters.

Let's make indiffference a policy.

Haters do hating while doers do doing 



@cirr , @Mao1949 , @Hu Songshan , @Chinese Century , @Raphael , @kalu_miah , @Jlaw , @Kiss_of_the_Dragon , @Edison Chen , @Nan Yang , @rcrmj , @cirr , @Obambam , @xunzi ,@Chinese-Dragon , @terranMarine , @senheiser , @tranquilium , @kankan326

(I possibly miss out many names; but, this message is basically to all friends of China)

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang to become core zone on the Silk Road Economic Belt *
By Zhang Lulu
June 30, 2014






_Zhang Chunxian, Party Secretary of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, addressed an international seminar on the Silk Road Economic Belt held in Urumqi, the capital city of Xinjiang, from June 26 to 27. [Photo/China.org.cn]_

Chinese President Xi Jinping proposed the Silk Road Economic Belt during his central-Asian tour last year. *Bordering central Asia and as a gateway to Eurasia, west China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region is aiming to become the core zone on the Silk Road Economic Belt.*

Zhang Chunxian, the Party Secretary of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, addressed an international seminar on the Silk Road Economic Belt held in Urumqi, capital city of Xinjiang, from June 26 to 27.

Zhang said in his speech that Xinjiang will "make full use of its geographical and cultural advantages, further open up and make efforts to act as the main force and vanguard in building the Silk Road Economic Belt."






_Zhang Chunlin, director of the Xinjiang Development and Reform Commission gives an interview with China.org.cn on the sidelines of the Silk Road Economic Belt International Seminar held in Urumqi, capital city of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region on June 26. [China.org.cn/Zhang Lulu]_

*Xinjiang is aiming to become a traffic hub, a commercial logistics center, a financial center, a cultural, scientific and educational center, and a medical service center in the region, as well as a large-scale national oil and gas production, processing and reserve base, a large-scale coal, coal power and coal chemical base, a large wind power base and a national energy resource corridor, Zhang said.*

*Traffic and trade*

*With two railway ports already in full operation, Xinjiang will build four more to connect the region with the Eurasian continent by 2020, Zhang Chunlin, director of the Xinjiang Development and Reform Commission, said.*

*Xinjiang now boasts 16 airports, and the region will see an increase of four to six new airports and some others will be renovated or expanded in the following three years.*

Based on the three existing bonded zones in its Dzungarian Gate, Kashgar, and Khorgos, the heartland of Eurasia will further build five other bonded zones, which will lay a solid foundation for the negotiations of the long-anticipated China-Central Asia free trade area, Zhang Chunlin said.

*The five ports will look to Mongolia, Kazakhstan, Russia, Central and Western Asia and Europe at large.*

*Anti-terrorism*

Arrays of terrorist attacks have taken place in Xinjiang in the past year. In response, China has launched a severe anti-terrorism campaign.

"Anti-terrorism campaign and ensuring social stability will exert a positive role on the development of the Silk Road Economic Belt," Zhang Chunlin said.

*"Currently terrorism has not had any impact on the key projects in the region. For example, eight large-scale state-owned enterprises are still investing in the coal electricity industry in the region," Zhang said.*

The CPC Central Committee held a key conference on Xinjiang at the end of May, encouraging Xinjiang to further open up and become the core zone on the Silk Road Economic Belt.

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## Edison Chen

@TaiShang

Hey bro, that's exactly what I am thinking now, we can never reach a consensus with those people. It's good to keep away from it.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Hey, @Sinan could you please answer me the following questions?



Lot's of question sand i don't have time to answer them all, maybe at night but not now.



Spring Onion said:


> 1. How it is spitting on our face? have they put the ban on our citizens or theirs?
> 2. Now coming to what some people are expecting form us then iw ill say
> A. Being friend of China is one thing and raising our voice for Muslim rights is another.
> Being Muslims we should and we can only condemn this act of China just like we do when some other country put such unjustified bans. Now if you are expecting us to cut off diplomatic ties with China or trade or defence well thats STUPID



If you are Muslim you'll care, if not you won't, simple as that. No need for further discussions.


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## cheekybird

Dem!god said:


> ohhh...!!!!
> what will the muslim brotherhood will do....where is Muslim ummmah to save their brother's from these atrocities..... even i am feeling bad over it...uff...
> 
> @]


Koi to thread chor do,har thread pe trolling

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## TaiShang

Edison Chen said:


> @TaiShang
> 
> Hey bro, that's exactly what I am thinking now, we can never reach a consensus with those people. It's good to keep away from it.



Thank you, bro. Action speaks louder than words and I do not see why we should express ourselves and explain our actions to unsophisticated programmed zombies?

Let them delve into a monologue, or better yet, into a haters fest, a sort of immoral orgy that none of us would like to get a sight of.

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## -SINAN-

TaiShang said:


> My dear friend @jkroo , the best policy is simply remain indifferent to threads that does not add value to our discussion of China's great revival and is designed as flame-maker.
> 
> It is good to seek that so far the thread is limited to discussion between non Chinese members. Should stay that way. As we ignore this kind of threads often started by anti-China members, they will quietly revert back to their own quarters.
> 
> Apparently, our indifference to these people's own problems does not teach a lesson. So, we can better stop feeding them here on our own section.
> 
> There will be, believe me, no constructive discussion, and no body will change their mind. Our best response should be our actions that speak for themselves.
> 
> I, therefore, suggest all good friends from the Greater China and elsewhere, to ignore such threads, including this one. That's possibly the heaviest blow to a troll and programmed (default) China-haters.
> 
> Let's make indiffference a policy.
> 
> Haters do hating while doers do doing
> 
> 
> 
> @cirr , @Mao1949 , @Hu Songshan , @Chinese Century , @Raphael , @kalu_miah , @Jlaw , @Kiss_of_the_Dragon , @Edison Chen , @Nan Yang , @rcrmj , @cirr , @Obambam , @xunzi ,@Chinese-Dragon , @terranMarine , @senheiser , @tranquilium
> 
> (I possibly miss out many names; but, this message is basically to all China-friends.)



I simply, reporting an actual news about Chinese stance over her Muslims. If you can't bear to hear the truth and bury your head in the sand... please do it.

@Hazzy997 @Arabian Legend @al-Hasani @MOHSENAM @Serpentine , i never see you guys in the threads that's related to issues of Muslims who lives in the Eastern side of the planet.


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## cheekybird

Audio said:


> awww....i'll leave you a love note on here when your dream crashes and burns.


He doesnt want you to leave him a love note,he's way out of your league


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## Spring Onion

Sinan said:


> If you are Muslim you'll care, if not you won't, simple as that. No need for further discussions.



We do care  but why just single out Pakistan?


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## Kyle Sun

cnleio said:


> Talk religions in Communist China, it's a jok specially CCP members believe religions, a true CCP member should be a atheist !
> In Mao's time, there's ZERO religion in China. If BeiJing like, they can ban all religions in China again.


In Mao's time , there were religions !!
Our ethnic and religious policy do not change much. especially minority nation.


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## -SINAN-

Spring Onion said:


> We do care  but why just single out Pakistan?



Well, i don't know how did you get the impression of i singled out Pakistan ?


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## -SINAN-

Spring Onion said:


> Not addressing you as an individual
> 
> Some posters here in this thread are specifically are singling us out



They are wrong ofcourse...but i have seen Pakistani members spek out loudly for the rights of Muslims in Europe.... when it comes to China... they choose to remain silent.

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## cheekybird

Sinan said:


> They are wrong ofcourse...but i have seen Pakistani members spek out loudly for the rights of Muslims in Europe.... when it comes to China... they choose to remain silent.


Sweeter than honey friendship

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## Water Car Engineer

It's a country moved by communism. They dont want religion to get too big.


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## -SINAN-

cheekybird said:


> Sweeter than honey friendship



Yeah, and most funny is, many Pakistani users also likes to mention Ummah. 

I guess they don't consider the muslims under Chinese rule as the part of the Ummah.

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## Edison Chen

TaiShang said:


> Thank you, bro. Action speaks louder than words and I do not see why we should express ourselves and explain our actions to unsophisticated programmed zombies?
> 
> Let them delve into a monologue, or better yet, into a haters fest, a sort of immoral orgy that none of would like to get a sight of.



Yep, we have many other topics to discuss, we don't need to clarify anything to them. We'd better also ignore asswolf's thread. A psychotic who never took ECON 101, but pretends to know quite a lot about China's economies by using that fking "emerging market to replace China" picture. 

Can you have a normal discussion with a troll who hate you? NO.

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## Edison Chen

Actually, Xinjiang is getting fking richer than troll's countries. Isn't Kashgar planned to be a special economic zone like Shenzhen, according to some report?

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> would like to learn something from @Sinan and hence ask you some questions:
> 1. When these news was released and are we well informed?


These news are released in 2-3 days ago in all mainstream media in Turkey.



jkroo said:


> 2. Do you know China government is secular or not?


Secular, ours is secular too. Secular government doesn't mean to oppress religions.



jkroo said:


> 3. Do you know a religious person can join CCP?


I don't know. And i don't think it should be a problem.



jkroo said:


> 4. What do you think thegardien's reputation in China and in Turkey(including BBC)?


I don't know in China, i guess not good in Turkey. Still not related, i found this article from Guardian... as it is english. There are numerous reports in Turkish as well.



jkroo said:


> 5. What's the arrangements of Turkey's secular government for Islamic festival?


What is an Islamic Festival ???? First time i heard that as Muslim and i can't guess what are you trying to refer.



jkroo said:


> 6. Do you know how many ethnic groups in China who practice Islamic religion?


Nope, Muslim is muslim unrelated of their ethnic origin. I don't think enthnicity is related here.



jkroo said:


> 7. Do you know how many mosques in China and the rank of the total religious facilities?


Nope, also i don't know the amount of the mosques in other countries and in my country.



jkroo said:


> 8. Do you know China's religion policies?


Nope.




jkroo said:


> 9. What is the religious structure(people practice different religions) of Turkey and do you know the Chinese?
> Thank you in advance.



In Turkey everybody is free about their religions.... Chinese desn't seem to offer that kind of freedom.



WishLivePak said:


> Mods should lock this thread... It has been hijacked



Yeah, sure whenever a thread is opened about the muslims, or minorities being mistreated in China.... somebody should ask for the mods to close the thread.....

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## cirr

Zhang Chunxian and Li Xiuping（below）







husband and wife。

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## jkroo

Edison Chen said:


> Actually, Xinjiang is getting fking richer than troll's countries. Isn't Kashgar planned to be a special economic zone like Shenzhen, according to some report?
> 
> Even Xinjiang is richer than some troll's countries.


That's true. If you get there you will find it.
I think the economic zone will have positive affect to Pakistan's economy.

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## Edison Chen

jkroo said:


> That's true. If you get there you will find it.
> I think the economic zone will have positive affect to Pakistan's economy.



Not only Pakistan, but the central Asia as well. 

“东有深圳、西有喀什”：一个西部经济特区的国家梦想--地方领导--人民网

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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Talk religions in Communist China, it's a jok specially CCP members believe religions, a true CCP member should be a atheist !
> In Mao's time, there's ZERO religion in China. If BeiJing like, they can ban all religions in China again.


Simple solution, China leaves East-Turkistan alone. And mind their own business. Everyone is happy, no ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

I hear this shit very year.. But the mysterious question remains ... How the holy *** of Thor !!! do the Chinese do tht?


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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> These news are released in 2-3 days ago in all mainstream media in Turkey.
> 
> 
> Secular, ours is secular too. Secular government doesn't mean to oppress religions.
> 
> 
> I don't know. And i don't think it should be a problem.
> 
> 
> I don't know in China, i guess not good in Turkey. Still not related, i found this article from Guardian... as it is english. There are numerous reports in Turkish as well.
> 
> 
> What is an Islamic Festival ???? First time i heard that as Muslim and i can't guess what are you trying to refer.
> 
> 
> Nope, Muslim is muslim unrelated of their ethnic origin. I don't think enthnicity is related here.
> 
> 
> Nope, also i don't know the amount of the mosques in other countries and in my country.
> 
> 
> Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In Turkey everybody is free about their religions.... Chinese desn't seem to offer that kind of freedom.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, sure whenever a thread is opened about the muslims, or minorities being mistreated in China.... somebody should ask for the mods to close the thread.....


#1 It seems like Turkey love these aged news from west.
#2 The west tell you gov oppress religion. Choose to trust it it's your business.
#3 Never.
#4 It's ok you know it. I just don't like to choose those negative news of Turkey published by west that's stupid.
#5 I mean national holiday arrangement.
#6 There are Muslim living in every city of China.
#7 Rank No.1
#8 In short. Not promoted, but you are free to choose. It's your own business.
#9 You are free to choose your religion. This thread could be your reference. China poised to become "World's MOST CHRISTIAN Nation" in 15 years as numbers grow exponentially. | Page 4

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## TaiShang

Xinjiang will become the hub of the Silk Road, this time, probably bringing together high-tech, innovation and services such as conferences and leisure.



Edison Chen said:


> Actually, Xinjiang is getting fking richer than troll's countries. Isn't Kashgar planned to be a special economic zone like Shenzhen, according to some report?



LOL. Definitely. The kabab-eating trolls are probably in the worst shape in terms of their fracked-up foreign policy and hostile (kabab eaters do not even have embassy in several neighboring countries) regional environment.


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## Aepsilons

@TaiShang , 

Since we're talking about Xinjiang, do you know the current status of the Xibe people in Xinjiang?


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## BigDaddyWatch

There is no blanket ban on fasting during Ramadan in China only government officials and Communist Party members. You know those who have pledge their allegiance to the atheist Communist Party are not allow to fast during the Ramadan. The security has tightened during Ramadan for sure because of the recent spade of attacks.


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## kalu_miah

@TaiShang and other Chinese posters, Xinjiang has tremendous potential. If the economy grows and there is lots of opportunities for all minorities including Uyghurs, then all problems will eventually go away.

There are lots of China haters in this forum, don't worry about them. When you are rising and making lots of friends and potential friends, they get jealous and try to make trouble for you.

The thing to observe is that they will always try to catch you with some perceived weak points to make propaganda against you and make you look bad, so it might help to take care of these weak points so that they do not find a way to shame you or hurt your interest. You may want to work with your reliable friend and allied nations to remove these weak points.

China and the Muslim world have a great future. The closer you can get to Muslim countries around the globe, the less your enemies will find any Muslim/Islam related issues to paint you as anti-Muslim. Unlike the West, India and to a smaller extent Russia, all of whom have serious issues with Muslims, China I believe does not have any major issues with Muslims and enjoys more or less good relations with most Muslim countries.

The Uyghur problem has workable solutions. There may be outside interference and there may be some internal wrong strategy or a combination of both. So a better strategy would be needed, in my opinion. One suggestion would be to get some advice from Turkic countries in Central Asia and even Turkey, who the Uyghurs feel very close to. If you can get these countries on your side to solve this problem, then Uyghurs would feel much more comfortable about listening to their turkic brothers advice. You have the potential to change the problem situation with Uyghurs and turn it into an opportunity. Chinese speaking Uyghurs can become a bridge between Turkic and Muslim countries for business, trade, investment and commerce. For example, construction projects in Muslim countries, if you hire some Uyghurs, Hui or other Chinese Muslims, this will get you some bonus points with that host country when they see practicing Muslims among the Chinese workers and it will make them feel much closer to the entire Chinese work crew. This is just one example. Uyghurs, Hui and other Chinese Muslims can be used as productive and positive contributors in joint projects between Chinese and Muslim country.

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## Icarus

MarkusS said:


> Thats weird than because europeans tend to be much more happy than asians. Just look at your suicide rate.



Once again, your limited knowledge of figures and Asian cultures betrays you. Suicide in Asiatic cultures is a cultural thing more than it is a personal preference or the outcome of sustained depression. Most suicide cases in Asian cultures will be related to personal failures that may be seen as dishonourable to the family. Failing in an exam, getting rejected for marriage, losing your property being some such instances.



Scorpion666 said:


> so ?
> i have a right to put my point across .....



Yes you do, but it has to make sense in context with the entire discussion, which yours didn't.



notsuperstitious said:


> Sir while I do not disagree with what you have posted, I'd urge you to look at this slighly differently too. I mean look at our civic sense, and it can be argued that the west is much more community conscious and we are individualistic?



I believe civic sense is fostered by education and an understanding of duty, areas where the west surpasses us by a vast margin and I agree that most asian cultures still need to fully grasp the concept of civic responsibility but nations that have attained higher rates of education and national cohesion do show a trend towards improved civic sense, Malaysia, Singapore, RoK being some examples that have come a long way in the last 3 to 4 decades. 



> Also those eastern countries that have become rich, you will find them much more materialistic and competitive than most western countries, look at korea, singapore for example.



Materialism and competition are a fall out of the capitalist system, they are inevitable even in India and Pakistan you will find that competition is quite fierce but never at the cost of family, whereas individuals may leave a family member to be in poverty if they themselves are successful, in any Asian culture, the successful individual will treat it as his responsibility to look after the other. 



> My point is, as always, its not black and white. Sorry for the digression.



Its a pleasure debating with you, please don't be apologetic.



Alfa-Fighter said:


> No more then couple Pak poster raises concerns , only trying to tell difference attitude and cultural difference , justifying / protect then things of china.



Which is absolutely fine, not everyone will raise concerns, I for one am not pushed in the slightest by this decision but I quoted otherwise to show that unlike the person claimed, Pakistanis had condemned this decision. The number need not be a 100% because attitudes vary.



Sinan said:


> Everybody can make his own judgement. This is my judgement, you can think differently from me, no problem.



I was not looking for a dismissal, I was merely asking for you to clarify your position. On what basis, you issued your judgement.

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## Jzaib

China should China has already so manyt enimies .. they dont need to make new enemies ...oppression never helped anyone ... we muslims are NUT JOBs .. Numbers and money dont scare us .. So my advice to our best friends is get ur head out of ur *** and make wise decision .. Bcoz if Pakistan has to choose btw China or Islam .. they will choose islam

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## pigtaker

Jzaib said:


> China should China has already so manyt enimies .. they dont need to make new enemies ...oppression never helped anyone ... we muslims are NUT JOBs .. Numbers and money dont scare us .. So my advice to our best friends is get ur head out of ur *** and make wise decision .. Bcoz if Pakistan has to choose btw China or Islam .. they will choose islam


No, we just take neccessary precaution to maintian stability, to avoid tragety like what happened in India where a small riot would cost you thousand of muslim brother's lives.

As for your choice, be it. we don't interfere your affair, and we will respond to your choice accordingly.

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## -SINAN-

Icarus said:


> I was not looking for a dismissal, I was merely asking for you to clarify your position. On what basis, you issued your judgement.



Your'S is an Islamic State ain't it. You have a great friend and neighbour which opress it's Muslim minorities. That's not just a spit on Pakistans face, but to all ones who cares to define themselves as Muslim. The thing is we don't have significant relationship China, and other ME muslim states but Pakistan have a great relationship with them.

Maybe you should decribe your state not as an Islamic but a Secular. IMO that would be more fit.



Jzaib said:


> China should China has already so manyt enimies .. they dont need to make new enemies ...oppression never helped anyone ... we muslims are NUT JOBs .. Numbers and money dont scare us .. So my advice *to our best friends* is get ur head out of ur *** and make wise decision .. Bcoz if Pakistan has to choose btw China or Islam .. they will choose islam



You Pakistanis should realise that the ones you called as your best friends, may not always see you as their best friend. Especially godless, materialist China....the moment you have different interests, they will sell you out. You can be sure of that.

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## Icarus

Sinan said:


> Your'S is an Islamic State ain't it. You have a great friend and neighbour which opress it's Muslim minorities. That's not just a spit on Pakistans face, but to all ones who cares to define themselves as Muslim. The thing is we don't have significant relationship China, and other ME muslim states but Pakistan have a great relationship with them.
> 
> Maybe you should decribe your state not as an Islamic but a Secular. IMO that would be more fit.



Yes, ours is an Islamic State but any policy that China enacts with regards to its citizens does not mean that it is our responsibility to intervene on their behalf, they are residents of the PRC and just like you won't rush into your neighbour's home to help his kid fix his shower, Pakistan has no need to intervene on behalf of Chinese citizens. They have their own system of appeal, if they are unhappy with the decision, they may appeal to the courts or their resident officials to reconsider their policy. 

Now, Turkey has diplomatic relations with a number of countries that have not been particularly kind to Muslims.

Israel and their role in Palestine
USA and their role in Iraq
UK and their role in Iraq
KSA and Iran and their role in the entire muslim world 
Russia and its role in the Caucasus 

I don't see Turkey being pro-active and breaking off relations with these nations to set a precedent for the Muslim world, aren't these countries "Spitting in your face", as you so eloquently said? 

Lastly, I would prefer for Pakistan to be a Secular nation where the rights of all citizens are guaranteed uniformly without any regard for their beliefs, race or preferences.

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## Jzaib

pigtaker said:


> No, we just take neccessary precaution to maintian stability, to avoid tragety like what happened in India where a small riot would cost you thousand of muslim brother's lives.
> 
> As for your choice, be it. we don't interfere your affair, and we will respond to your choice accordingly.


Brother with all the honest and love i have in my heart for china .. It is a stupid move ... the oppression never solved the problem .. specially if it is the religious one .. the more the restriction u put them the more sympathy they will have .. the world dont cares what u do to the rebels but once the feel that u r being racist to muslims , there will be a reaction 

Banning them to fast is not saving a muslim brother life .. it is like telling them we hate muslims and we dnt want u to be a muslim


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## Jzaib

Sinan said:


> Your'S is an Islamic State ain't it. You have a great friend and neighbour which opress it's Muslim minorities. That's not just a spit on Pakistans face, but to all ones who cares to define themselves as Muslim. The thing is we don't have significant relationship China, and other ME muslim states but Pakistan have a great relationship with them.
> 
> Maybe you should decribe your state not as an Islamic but a Secular. IMO that would be more fit.
> 
> 
> 
> You Pakistanis should realise that the ones you called as your best friends, may not always see you as their best friend. Especially godless, materialist China....the moment you have different interests, they will sell you out. You can be sure of that.



U r irritating .. i knw u hate china for some reason but dont take that out on Pakistan ... Pakistan the clean up the mess at western borders , instead of messing with the two world largest nations ... throughout Pakistan history Pakistan stood up for muslims .. but when Pakistan was in trouble .. they didnt get much help .. Pakistan should now focus on his own problems rather then making enemies for people whoes intentions are nor clear .. btw are u turk???

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## -SINAN-

Icarus said:


> Yes, ours is an Islamic State but any policy that China enacts with regards to its citizens does not mean that it is our responsibility to intervene on their behalf, they are residents of the PRC and just like you won't rush into your neighbour's home to help his kid fix his shower, Pakistan has no need to intervene on behalf of Chinese citizens. They have their own system of appeal, if they are unhappy with the decision, they may appeal to the courts or their resident officials to reconsider their policy.
> Now, Turkey has diplomatic relations with a number of countries that have not been particularly kind to Muslims.
> Israel and their role in Palestine
> USA and their role in Iraq
> UK and their role in Iraq
> KSA and Iran and their role in the entire muslim world
> Russia and its role in the Caucasus
> I don't see Turkey being pro-active and breaking off relations with these nations to set a precedent for the Muslim world, aren't these countries "Spitting in your face", as you so eloquently said?
> Lastly, I would prefer for Pakistan to be a Secular nation where the rights of all citizens are guaranteed uniformly without any regard for their beliefs, race or preferences.



I never said Pakistan should break it's relations with China or anything like that all. I believe every nation should pursue their interests not other's interests.

What i'm referring to is more like the mentality of our Pakistani brothers.... You should agree with me when our Pakistani brothers are being pro-Muslim... in many issues. Supporting Muslim nations and their rights in many cases. But when the issue involves China.... we see a rather different stance.

FYI interests as We Turks don't believe in Muslim Brotherhood. In many cases, Muslim World abandoned Turks... so we know better than everyone.... 

But it doesn't means that we will also abondon others under oppression. We are no longer an Empire, at those times.. we would send soldiers and ships to aid. Now we can't but we try to be of support anyway we can.



Jzaib said:


> r irritating .. i knw u hate china for some reason but dont take that out on Pakistan ... Pakistan the clean up the mess at western borders , instead of messing with the two world largest nations ... throughout Pakistan history Pakistan stood up for muslims .. but when Pakistan was in trouble .. they didnt get much help .. Pakistan should now focus on his own problems rather then making enemies for people whoes intentions are nor clear .. btw are u turk???



I don't care about China at all....i mean why should i ? I'm only concerned about the Uyghurs and that's all.

Secondly, do as it suits you....

And i'm a Turk, son of Oghuz Khan...

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## Icarus

Sinan said:


> I never said Pakistan should break it's relations with China or anything like that all. I believe every nation should pursue their interests not other's interests.
> 
> What i'm referring to is more like the mentality of our Pakistani brothers.... You should agree with me when our Pakistani brothers are being pro-Muslim... in many issues. Supporting Muslim nations and their rights in many cases. But when the issue involves China.... we see a rather different stance.
> 
> FYI interests as We Turks don't believe in Muslim Brotherhood. In many cases, Muslim World abandoned Turks... so we know better than everyone....
> 
> But it doesn't means that we will also abondon others under oppression. We are no longer an Empire, at those times.. we would send soldiers and ships to aid. Now we can't but we try to be of support anyway we can.




Pakistanis typically look up to Turks a lot, Indian Muslims of the time sent men and jewelry to help the Turks during WWI, many refused to report to their units so that they wouldn't fight against the Ottomans. That historical link has endured and people still view Turkey as the last heirloom of the Muslim glory days.

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## -SINAN-

Icarus said:


> Pakistanis typically look up to Turks a lot, Indian Muslims of the time sent men and jewelry to help the Turks during WWI, many refused to report to their units so that they wouldn't fight against the Ottomans. That historical link has endured and people still view Turkey as the last heirloom of the Muslim glory days.



All Turks know that and we are forever indebted to your actions. That's the reason we say Pakistanis our brothers whereas we don't refer to anybody in our region as our brothers ( other Turkics are exception ofcourse)

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## Icarus

Sinan said:


> All Turks know that and we are forever indebted to your actions. That's the reason we say Pakistanis our brothers whereas we don't refer to anybody in our region as our brothers ( other Turkics are exception ofcourse)




We are also indebted for this show of respect and hope to see this friendship blossom further!

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## halupridol

Sinan said:


> I never said Pakistan should break it's relations with China or anything like that all. I believe every nation should pursue their interests not other's interests.
> 
> What i'm referring to is more like the mentality of our Pakistani brothers.... You should agree with me when our Pakistani brothers are being pro-Muslim... in many issues. Supporting Muslim nations and their rights in many cases. But when the issue involves China.... we see a rather different stance.
> 
> FYI interests as We Turks don't believe in Muslim Brotherhood. In many cases, Muslim World abandoned Turks... so we know better than everyone....
> 
> But it doesn't means that we will also abondon others under oppression. We are no longer an Empire, at those times.. we would send soldiers and ships to aid. Now we can't but we try to be of support anyway we can.



i dont think Pakistanis have a counter argument for this hypocrisy..........
all this civility n restraint,(the kinds of which were shown on this thread by Pakistanis ) wud have gone up in smoke,,,if some country other thn China was involved.....n words like nuclear war n jihad wud have found abundant usage in there posts


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## Jzaib

SanghWillRise said:


> China should just massacre the sullahs uyghurs





Sinan said:


> I never said Pakistan should break it's relations with China or anything like that all. I believe every nation should pursue their interests not other's interests.
> 
> What i'm referring to is more like the mentality of our Pakistani brothers.... You should agree with me when our Pakistani brothers are being pro-Muslim... in many issues. Supporting Muslim nations and their rights in many cases. But when the issue involves China.... we see a rather different stance.
> 
> FYI interests as We Turks don't believe in Muslim Brotherhood. In many cases, Muslim World abandoned Turks... so we know better than everyone....


let me tell u my friend that we see truks as highly as we we see Chinese ... Pakistan has already opened too many fronts ... Pakistan stood with Muslim in every conflict .. But in the end we dont even get a thank u .. we have more then 30 million migrants from india and Afghanistan ... Pakistan has the history of taking side with Muslims ... but did they ever helped us??? No they did .. we have given our blood for them .. but in response we just get few dollars .. Pakistan is seeing the worst time since it birth but do we see any help ... 


Now lets come to china ... empire rise and empire falls ... even the most mightiest empires have fallen .. china have newly earned money ... they are arrogant now ... but soon the nature will put them in their place .. Now why Pakistanis dont speak up for these people ... WE DNT KNW MUCH ABOUT THEM. there is limited information about them on media or indternet.. specially unlike kashmiris they have never asked for our help ... China is being so Gud to us , although they have invested alot in us but never interfere in our internal politics unlike US, Russia, India, Iran, afghanistan and KSA ... they are idea friends for us .. SO unless we dnt see any major massacre why would be spoil relationship with china ... As i said before If pakistan have to choose btw Islam or china .. we will choose islam .. we have the history to stand up against people way more powerful then us ... Numbers and Money dont scare .. we may not win , all that matters is to try



halupridol said:


> i dont think Pakistanis have a counter argument for this hypocrisy..........
> all this civility n restraint,(the kinds of which were shown on this thread by Pakistanis ) wud have gone up in smoke,,,if some country other thn China was involved.....n words like nuclear war n jihad wud have found abundant usage in there posts


two major differneces... kahsmirs asked for help and these chinese rebels didnt .. Kashmir have a strong case for getting freedom they dont .. thridly there is very limited information on media or internet about them .. where as everyone knows about kashmir

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## -SINAN-

Jzaib said:


> let me tell u my friend that we see truks as highly as we we see Chinese ... Pakistan has already opened too many fronts ... Pakistan stood with Muslim in every conflict .. But in the end we dont even get a thank u .. we have more then 30 million migrants from india and Afghanistan ... Pakistan has the history of taking side with Muslims ... but did they ever helped us??? No they did .. we have given our blood for them .. but in response we just get few dollars .. Pakistan is seeing the worst time since it birth but do we see any help ...
> 
> 
> Now lets come to china ... empire rise and empire falls ... even the most mightiest empires have fallen .. china have newly earned money ... they are arrogant now ... but soon the nature will put them in their place .. Now why Pakistanis dont speak up for these people ... WE DNT KNW MUCH ABOUT THEM. there is limited information about them on media or indternet.. specially unlike kashmiris they have never asked for our help ... China is being so Gud to us , although they have invested alot in us but never interfere in our internal politics unlike US, Russia, India, Iran, afghanistan and KSA ... they are idea friends for us .. SO unless we dnt see any major massacre why would be spoil relationship with china ... As i said before If pakistan have to choose btw Islam or china .. we will choose islam .. we have the history to stand up against people way more powerful then us ... Numbers and Money dont scare .. we may not win , all that matters is to try
> 
> 
> two major differneces... kahsmirs asked for help and these chinese rebels didnt .. Kashmir have a strong case for getting freedom they dont .. thridly there is very limited information on media or internet about them .. where as everyone knows about kashmir



I think you should stay with your interests whatever happens....but i would like say, don't be afraid to raise your voice over injustice...

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## halupridol

Jzaib said:


> two major differneces... kahsmirs asked for help and these chinese rebels didnt .. Kashmir have a strong case for getting freedom they dont .. thridly there is very limited information on media or internet about them .. where as everyone knows about kashmir


bro,,,,wasnt implying India,,,,,if this happened in Uk,,,,do u think ppl wud react in same way,,,,,,,,,,heck u guys were 10 times more agitated when French banned burqa....
u r looking out for ur national interests which is good,,,,,but this does unveil ur hypocrisy nevertheless .

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## areal

The fact is that only terrorists got killed in China
Every terrorists got killed, only Muslim identity will be especially marked, that's really strange.
Nobody in China will be killed just because their religion choice, not like other countries such as India, because being hindu or Muslim, got killed, in Islam countries, being non-Muslim, got killed.


narcon said:


> Chinese kill Muslim Uhighirs all the time, whenever there is uprising...
> Nothing new.
> Pakistan does not like it, but nothing it can do.

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## Jaanbaz

Why do Indians troll at anything to do with Islam or Pakistan?

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## Jzaib

halupridol said:


> bro,,,,wasnt implying India,,,,,if this happened in Uk,,,,do u think ppl wud react in same way,,,,,,,,,,heck u guys were 10 times more agitated when French banned burqa....
> u r looking out for ur national interests which is good,,,,,but this does unveil ur hypocrisy nevertheless .


Nopes .. the only difference is .. the french thing come all over the media and internet.. that is why so many protest .. to be honest how many times u have seen that on national TV??? or any news? I THINK I AM WELL INFROMED BUT EVEN I DNT KNW MUCH ABOUT THEM

Btw my indian friend .. Money and numbers dont scare us ..we are Nut Jobs, we dont look at national intrest in everythng .. we stand up for people we supports .. there are many examples in recent decades as well ..we would have worried so much about national intrest for about messing with super powers .. we would have given up kashmir along ago and russia would have been still in Afghanistan

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## halupridol

Jzaib said:


> Nopes .. the only difference is .. the french thing come all over the media and internet.. that is why so many protest .. to be honest how many times u have seen that on national TV??? or any news? I THINK I AM WELL INFROMED BUT EVEN I DNT KNW MUCH ABOUT THEM
> 
> Btw my indian friend .. Money and numbers dont scare us ..*we are Nut Jobs*, we dont look at national intrest in everythng .. we stand up for people we supports .. there are many examples in recent decades as well ..we would have worried so much about national intrest for about messing with super powers .. we would have given up kashmir along ago and russia would have been still in Afghanistan


 my Pakistani friend,seems u didnt get me,,,,,i am talking about the posts of Pakistani members on this n similar threads......
but anyway,,,lets readers decide whether my observations r correct or not

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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> Simple solution, China leaves East-Turkistan alone. And mind their own business. Everyone is happy, no ?


Did u need China to hold meeting in UNSC, to check what SH!T Turkey did in Cyprus, in kurds area and in Armenia and let ur ppl just leave alone ?

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## NirmalKrish

Hyperion said:


> Well, you are little biaaaches of Uncle Sam, so you have nothing to worry about. If UK is Uncle Sam's poodle, you guys are their watch dogs.............


its still you guys, still begging from uncle same for everything not us.


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## -SINAN-

cnleio said:


> Did u need China to hold meeting in UNSC, to check what SH!T Turkey did in Cyprus, in kurds area and in Armenia and let ur ppl just leave alone ?


-ıN Cyprus, Greek Junta mass Killed Turks, so went there and kicked Greek @ss, we didn't care what other countries would think.
- There are many incidents with Kurds, i can enlighten you if you refer to the incident.
- Armenians revolted while we were fighting with Russia in WW1, back-stabbed army, destroyed Turkish villages and dealt accordingly.

Other than that related to My Uyghur kin.... yea, i would advice you to either respect their culture or simply leave them alone.


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## cnleio

Sinan said:


> -ıN Cyprus, Greek Junta mass Killed Turks, so went there and kicked Greek @ss, we didn't care what other countries would think.
> - There are many incidents with Kurds, i can enlighten you if you refer to the incident.
> - Armenians revolted while we were fighting with Russia in WW1, back-stabbed army, destroyed Turkish villages and dealt accordingly.
> 
> Other than that related to My Uyghur kin.... yea, i would advice you to either respect their culture or simply leave them alone.


U can send Turkey Army to XinJiang, or send weapons to arm Uyghur terrorists.

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## pigtaker

Jzaib said:


> Brother with all the honest and love i have in my heart for china .. It is a stupid move ... the oppression never solved the problem .. specially if it is the religious one .. the more the restriction u put them the more sympathy they will have .. the world dont cares what u do to the rebels but once the feel that u r being racist to muslims , there will be a reaction
> 
> Banning them to fast is not saving a muslim brother life .. it is like telling them we hate muslims and we dnt want u to be a muslim


Pls get the fact straight first. We don't ban muslim fast. even if this report is true, we only ban goverment officials and party member fast, who account for only a tiny portion of muslim population.because they have their duty to fultill, just like I don't believe your military will continue fast when india invade you. Besides, they also have their option to quit if they choose.
.

Be careful to use the word oppression. In fact, China muslims especially uyhgurs enjoy far more priviledge than our hans or other minorites, which already incur negtive feeling of our most citizens.

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## Audio

@Sinan
Why are you trying? This whole site is a platform for expression of "brotherly" love between China and Pakistan. Just look at the latest think tank appointments (paid commentators), or who took admin spot (China lover to the bone-he loves it so much he biasely moderates in favour of Chinese.)

Look, in simple words, Pakistan's only hope is Chinese money. They will look the other way in everything because of this. They still have this dreams China will be world leader and if they manage to suck up to them decently in this period, they count on crumbs off the Chinese table when that happens.

My humble opinion is that this Pakistani adventure will end with PLA invading and keeping a corridor to Gwadar, so they check up on India (the only reason they befriended Pakistani's in the first place, that and to unload their uncompetitive weapons on them-through loans Pakistani's cannot refuse-not that they are too good of a loans, but Pakistan just isn't in the position to deny anything)
Rest of the country will be up in flames. Kinda like Afghanistan, where central authority will have power only in the capital. 

Best thing is, the likes of @Hyperion calling me and my country a US watch dog, when Pakistan for China isn't even that, at best it's a puppy to be done with it however the master pleases . But it takes time to learn i guess. They'll learn the hard way.

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## -SINAN-

Audio said:


> @Sinan
> Why are you trying? This whole site is a platform for expression of "brotherly" love between China and Pakistan. Just look at the latest think tank appointments (paid commentators), or who took admin spot (China lover to the bone-he loves it so much he biasely moderates in favour of Chinese.)
> 
> Look, in simple words, Pakistan's only hope is Chinese money. They will look the other way in everything because of this. They still have this dreams China will be world leader and if they manage to suck up to them decently in this period, they count on crumbs off the Chinese table when that happens.
> 
> My humble opinion is that this Pakistani adventure will end with PLA invading and keeping a corridor to Gwadar, so they check up on India (the only reason they befriended Pakistani's in the first place, that and to unload their uncompetitive weapons on them-through loans Pakistani's cannot refuse-not that they are too good of a loans, but Pakistan just isn't in the position to deny anything)
> Rest of the country will be up in flames. Kinda like Afghanistan, where central authority will have power only in the capital.
> 
> Best thing is, the likes of @Hyperion calling me and my country a US watch dog, when Pakistan for China isn't even that, at best it's a puppy to be done with it however the master pleases . But it takes time to learn i guess. They'll learn the hard way.



Well, i'm not trying to turn Pakistanis over Chinese if you are saying that....but there is injustice in China regarding it's muslim minorities and people should know that.

Other than that it's Pakistanis business to stick with who. I can only wish them the best luck as we consider them as our brothers.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways.... Happy Ramadan to you guys while my Uyghur brethren even fordided to practice.
Ramadan Karim | 2014

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## Audio

Sinan said:


> but there is injustice in China regarding it's muslim minorities and people should know that.



Beggars can't be choosers.


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## -SINAN-

Audio said:


> Beggars can't be choosers.


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## jkroo

Sigh, thread still goes on. Most of posters know nothing about Chinese Muslim and even some of them didn't read the whole 'news'. You should nav the sites.
斋月-中国清真网 - 中国清真网-穆斯林官网-全球最大穆斯林中文门户,最好最快商务贸易平台

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Sigh, thread still goes on. Most of posters know nothing about Chinese Muslim and even some of them didn't read the whole 'news'. You should nav the sites.
> 斋月-中国清真网 - 中国清真网-穆斯林官网-全球最大穆斯林中文门户,最好最快商务贸易平台



I doubt that "posters who knows nothing about Chinese Muslims" will know the Chinese language.


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## TaiShang

kalu_miah said:


> Chinese speaking Uyghurs can become a bridge between Turkic and Muslim countries for business, trade, investment and commerce. For example, construction projects in Muslim countries, if you hire some Uyghurs, Hui or other Chinese Muslims, this will get you some bonus points with that host country when they see practicing Muslims among the Chinese workers and it will make them feel much closer to the entire Chinese work crew.




All good points except taking lesson from Turkey. With their present sectarian, neo-ottomanist and racist right-wing government, China should stay away from them on anything pertaining to its own domestic issues. 

Other than that, especially the point quoted above, I think on the agenda, already. The whole point the New Modern Silk Road is to put Xinjiang at the center of Asiatic trade, hence, the diverse make-up of the region will play the catalizer to provide extended bridges between China and the Rest of Central/West Asia and the Europe.

I guess China will prioritize economic development but, as sensitive about sovereignty as it is, I do not see Beijing talking to others about its own problems -- especially given the international nature of Xinjiang terrorism. 

At the end of the day, there is one dominant culture in China and others are expected to adopt it, including the language. Those who feel not belonging should leave, really; there is no point in causing oneself or others harm. Religion is a touchy issue and the Chinese culture will not become so much after-life oriented or allow some external rules to regulate mundane issues. The Uighur have to adopt and conform. 

Chinese culture is inherently secular. This cannot change. Uighur will have to separate religion and church from politics, national education and defence. Otherwise I do not see them to enjoy the fruits of China's development.

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> I doubt that "posters who knows nothing about Chinese Muslims" will know the Chinese language.


Do you want to know?

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## Raphael

Audio said:


> Best thing is, the likes of Hyperion *calling me and my country a US watch dog*, when Pakistan for China isn't even that, at best it's a puppy to be done with it however the master pleases . But it takes time to learn i guess. They'll learn the hard way.



So you finally admitted it lol. Much like the gay who finally comes out of the closet when it was already public knowledge.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Do you want to know?



Don't think so.

But i like to hear the story from both sides then form my opinion.



Raphael said:


> So you finally *admitted it* lol. Much like the gay who finally comes out of the closet when it was already public knowledge.



Comprehension issues or putting words to his mouth...... which one ?

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## jkroo

I still think there are only management and economic problems. Uyghur people are very honest, generous and simple.
The youth can't be terrorist without misleading. When the regional economy developed, I wonder whether Uyghurs would show sympathy to Turks like Turks did today?
As we Chinese all know that if they work hard enough it's easier to make money than Han. Many reports can prove my point.
And there are many rich men in Xinjiang.
Let's wait another economic miracle.

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## faisal6309

The way of presenting something can change a lot of minds..


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## mycutegirl

i think let more uighurs participate in the economic activities is very important and imperative.obviously,xinjiang's in the middle position of the economy link between most developed Asia area and central Asia.
and what the point for chinese govts?
do not miss the chance of uighurs integrating into chinese,let uighurs participate in instead of being an onlooker,and shifting the minority policy

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## jkroo

Language will never be the barrier. There are too many made-up stories and including this one.

Your opinion are not well balanced, are you?

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## -SINAN-

I guess this post is directed at me.


jkroo said:


> Language will never be the barrier. There are too many made-up stories and including this one.


Language barrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



jkroo said:


> Your opinion are not well balanced, are you?



If you say so.

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## Kompromat

Still wondering why terrorism is in business in Xinjiang and Balochistan provinces?

Terrorism in both provinces is an 'application' of Indian 'concerns' over SinoPak transit. 

India is financing, training and arming terrorists in Balochistan and ETIM in N.Waziristan, in order to sabotage this project.

Pakistan has pledged to destroy ETIM facilities in N.Waziristan, during the last SinoPak strategic dialouge.

Once ETIM infrastructure is destroyed as the result of the recent operation, we are going to pay a pretty visit to the terrorists in Balochistan to secure communication lines of the SinoPak transit.

China must take some responsibility by meeting the demands of non combatant Uyigars as well as joining hands with Pakistan to show a stick to Tajikistan which is allowing Fakhror airbase to be used for recruiting, financing and training of the Uzbeks and ETIM terrorists.

Pakistan will mop up our bit, China needs to deal with Tajiks. If they don't stop their subcontracting activity of Indian terrorism export, they'll hear us very soon.

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## olcayto

TaiShang said:


> Xinjiang will become the hub of the Silk Road, this time, probably bringing together high-tech, innovation and services such as conferences and leisure.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. Definitely. The kabab-eating trolls are probably in the worst shape in terms of their fracked-up foreign policy and hostile (kabab eaters do not even have embassy in several neighboring countries) regional environment.



İ'm pretty sure kebab tastes way more better than dog stew

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> I guess this post is directed at me.
> 
> Language barrier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> 
> If you say so.


Hmmm, seems like barrier is not a positive word. Google translator can rest in peace.
You have showed us you are busy with your own business and have no time to know others. Its enough. Oh wait, you are posting in the subforum that made something illogic.
The world is diverse enough to everyone to open his mind.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Hmmm, seems like barrier is not a positive word. Google translator can rest in peace.
> You have showed us you are busy with your own business and have no time to know others. Its enough. Oh wait, you are posting in the subforum that made something illogic.
> The world is diverse enough to everyone to open his mind.



First show me something, then accuse me of "have no time to know others"...and I answered all of your questions, didn't i ?


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## Mr.S.Singh

Aeronaut said:


> Still wondering why terrorism is in business in Xinjiang and Balochistan provinces?
> 
> Terrorism in both provinces is an 'application' of Indian 'concerns' over SinoPak transit.
> 
> India is financing, training and arming terrorists in Balochistan and ETIM in N.Waziristan, in order to sabotage this project.
> 
> Pakistan has pledged to destroy ETIM facilities in N.Waziristan, during the last SinoPak strategic dialouge.
> 
> Once ETIM infrastructure is destroyed as the result of the recent operation, we are going to pay a pretty visit to the terrorists in Balochistan to secure communication lines of the SinoPak transit.
> 
> China must take some responsibility by meeting the demands of non combatant Uyigars as well as joining hands with Pakistan to show a stick to Tajikistan which is allowing Fakhror airbase to be used for recruiting, financing and training of the Uzbeks and ETIM terrorists.
> 
> Pakistan will mop up our bit, China needs to deal with Tajiks. If they don't stop their subcontracting activity of Indian terrorism export, they'll hear us very soon.


Never shy to take up India anywhere and everywhere do you, while you are at cleaning terrorism and Indian sponsored terrorism, why don't you clean anti-afghan govt Taliban and Anti-India jehads you have ? Win-Win for all

@Topic, the silk route
Don't you think than development activities in central Asia should be the top priority for china ? Create a market and then off-load goods ?


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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> First show me something, then accuse me of "have no time to know others"...and I answered all of your questions, didn't i ?


Yes, yes. Thank you for your responces. I didnt accuse you for say that. The difference exists. If I hurt you then sorry.
To put it in a positive way that is: you could set aside some time to read some Muslim sites of China even with google translator but not the madeup stories that will help you to balance your opinion about this. Is it clear?
There are many madeup stories related to China online. If you are willing to pick the garbage up you can post them everyday and everytime. I just tell you the facts.

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## Audio

Raphael said:


> So you finally admitted it lol.



For someone who claims to be Oxford schooled, your command of the English language is, well, lacking. But that's ok, it's probably cheap Oxford copy in China like those European villages and not the real thing.



Raphael said:


> Much like the gay who finally comes out of the closet when it was already public knowledge.



You seem to be the resident authority on gays. No doubt due to hard, hands on experience. Right?


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## Sasquatch

Title is misleading restrictions are only for government employees and students in Xinjiang, everyone else can fast.



Sinan said:


> Simple solution, China leaves East-Turkistan alone. And mind their own business. Everyone is happy, no ?



We have already discussed this once unlikely this happens, The Han Population in Xinjiang is the majority there no way they will leave hence China will not leave.

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## -SINAN-

Hu Songshan said:


> Title is misleading restrictions are only for government employees and students in Xinjiang, everyone else can fast.



Yeap, a little misleading, i think one can understand as "all of the muslims" instead of "some of the muslims"... but the fact is there is bans on muslims.



Hu Songshan said:


> We have already discussed this once unlikely this happens, The Han Population in Xinjiang is the majority there no way they will leave hence China will not leave.



And there will be problems related...

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## Dubious

Screambowl said:


> there is difference between hiding and staying at home.


How many did you interview were "hiding" and how many were "stayin at home" ?


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## Sasquatch

Sinan said:


> Yeap, a little misleading, i think one can understand as "all of the muslims" instead of "some of the muslims"... but the fact is there is bans on muslims.



Students should be allowed to fast however government employees no, they joined the CPC which they must keep their oath of staying nonreligious otherwise they should leave the party and can fast as much as they want.



Sinan said:


> And there will be problems related...


Realistically noting will happen other than some terrorist attacks, China won't leave Xinjiang because of someones opinion or terror attack, Han Chinese are the majority there, and it will increase with migration, by 2020 the Han population will rise nearly to 60%.

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## Dubious

Hu Songshan said:


> Title is misleading restrictions are only for government employees and students in Xinjiang, everyone else can fast.


People unwilling to do their homework are the one easily misled!


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## -SINAN-

Hu Songshan said:


> Students should be allowed to fast however government employees no, they joined the CPC which they must their oath of staying nonreligious otherwise they should leave the party and can fast as much as they want.



I didn't knew that, government employes should be. non-religious.... if they have accepted their conditions then they have no right to fast then.

But being non-religous for being a government official isn't right in my opinion.



Hu Songshan said:


> Realistically noting will happen other than some terrorist attacks, China won't leave Xinjiang because of someones opinion or terror attack, Han Chinese are the majority there, and it will increase with migration, by 2020 the Han population will rise nearly to 60%.



Well good luck then.

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## Gautam

Its okay since its China. No big deal....

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## Raphael

@Hu Songshan 

Did you delete my post?


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## Sasquatch

Sinan said:


> I didn't knew that, government employes should be. non-religious.... if they have accepted their conditions then they have no right to fast then.
> 
> But being non-religous for being a government official isn't right in my opinion.
> 
> 
> Well good luck then.



Government employees can fast as much as they want after they leave the party, my opinion the students should be allowed to however this rule of no religion is set for party, CPC employees are to be focused on China's development and economy and noting will hinder hat not religion meaning all religions Christianity and Buddhism as well, majority seem to have no problem with it.



Raphael said:


> @Hu Songshan
> 
> Did you delete my post?



Yes, Refrain going off topic.


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## B+ Dracula

Jzaib said:


> Nopes .. the only difference is .. the french thing come all over the media and internet.. that is why so many protest .. to be honest how many times u have seen that on national TV??? or any news? I THINK I AM WELL INFROMED BUT EVEN I DNT KNW MUCH ABOUT THEM
> Btw my indian friend .. Money and numbers dont scare us ..we are Nut Jobs, we dont look at national intrest in everythng .. we stand up for people we supports .. there are many examples in recent decades as well ..we would have worried so much about national intrest for about messing with super powers .. we would have given up kashmir along ago and russia would have been still in Afghanistan


Like Cold War Era, We risk our integrity under the Nose of OUTRAGEOUS RED BEAR, 
Finally, 26 States Emerge from USSR mostly muslims & all muslims are TURKS.....and now 67 Million muslim Turks living PEACEFULLY....
@Sinan cares about result not about struggle, timing, sacrifice.....



Hyperion said:


> @Sinan, my friend, Armed Forces officers for decades were not allowed to offer prayers, let alone fast.........their wives denied the right to veil........ same was true for many universities where even a mosque was not allowed...... anyone even with a remotely religious look was followed by MIT......... foods at universities were contaminated for other reasons........ people disappeared for no reason at all......... this all happened in Turkey......... along with millions of other things.......
> Let's not get into state policies of China.......... we know that they may not be perfect, however, essential to integrity of state of China from foreign elements, who wish nothing less than total disintegration of it, by using religion or other covert means.
> Stable China is not only good for us, but for rest of humanity........... a unipolar world, where Uncle Sam gets to do whatever it wants is bad bad bad......... trust you me, even bad for Turkey.......... China maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order.......... it isn't there yet, however, it will eventually get there in a decade or so.........


China is five times the size of Europe & vice versa in Population, Millions of muslims are living peacefully in China, except UGHER Area, and their problem need mature POLITICAL DECISION by taking everyone in confidence.
*PLZ PRAY FOR TURKS - WHY THEY WONT BRING THAT INTO ACCOUNT *

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## -SINAN-

Hu Songshan said:


> Government employees can fast as much as they want after they leave the party, my opinion the students should be allowed to however this rule of no religion is set for party, CPC employees are to be focused on China's development and economy and noting will hinder hat not religion meaning all religions Christianity and Buddhism as well, majority seem to have no problem with it.



It still sounds weird... i mean the man can religious and genious at the same time...I mean look at Erdogan. He quadrupled country's GDP in 10 years and he is disturbingly religious.

Or is it like you ask your officials to not do their religious practices while they are at work. Or you completely forbid them to belong any religion at all ?



mAsT bAbA said:


> cares about result *not about struggle, timing, sacrifice*.....


Nope, i said *reason. *

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## kalu_miah

TaiShang said:


> All good points except taking lesson from Turkey. With their present sectarian, neo-ottomanist and racist right-wing government, China should stay away from them on anything pertaining to its own domestic issues.
> 
> Other than that, especially the point quoted above, I think on the agenda, already. The whole point the New Modern Silk Road is to put Xinjiang at the center of Asiatic trade, hence, the diverse make-up of the region will play the catalizer to provide extended bridges between China and the Rest of Central/West Asia and the Europe.
> 
> I guess China will prioritize economic development but, as sensitive about sovereignty as it is, I do not see Beijing talking to others about its own problems -- especially given the international nature of Xinjiang terrorism.
> 
> At the end of the day, there is one dominant culture in China and others are expected to adopt it, including the language. Those who feel not belonging should leave, really; there is no point in causing oneself or others harm. Religion is a touchy issue and the Chinese culture will not become so much after-life oriented or allow some external rules to regulate mundane issues. The Uighur have to adopt and conform.
> 
> Chinese culture is inherently secular. This cannot change. Uighur will have to separate religion and church from politics, national education and defence. Otherwise I do not see them to enjoy the fruits of China's development.



Agreed on the Silk road project and the role of Xinjiang in this project.

About Xinjiang terrorism, the whole idea of SCO initially was to develop a multilateral platform of cooperation between many nations to address international terrorism problems like this. When the problem is getting bigger in recent months and in past year, I would say that there definitely is some drawback in China's current approach and strategy.

One problem I see is the following:
- the US and even India are officially secular countries, but separation of church and state does not mean reduction of personal freedom for practicing their own religion
- both of the above states do not interfere with personal space of people to practice their religion as much as China
- China as a one party much more authoritarian system, is expected not to give as much freedom, but people will compare and make this an issue, they will inevitably say that look religious people have so much freedom in the West or even in much poorer country like India (even though large number of people get killed in communal Hindu-Muslim riots every few years), how come China do not provide the same rights?

Personally I do not see how giving these simple rights to people to practice their day to day religious rites can be threatening to the state. It is not like giving these rights will enhance their feeling for separatism some how, the effect I think will be exactly the opposite. If the Chinese planners think that way, that shows poor understanding of human nature on their part.

Also, I am all for Chinese language education for all minority population as this will help them integrate to Chinese society better. In most developed countries people are proficient in more than one language. So they can still speak their own language at home and among themselves and practice it in spare time, but in work place and school, they should be using official Chinese language together with other Chinese population in integrated schools and work places. But even in these work places, one could easily have accommodation for different religious practices and if the state makes it a priority, it will only generate praise and feeling of gratitude from the minority population and reduce any moral support among the population for separatism and terrorist violence of separatist causes instigated by enemy states of China.

A friend is not someone who will blindly agree to what you say, but a better friend is someone who will try to understand your problems and give you constructive suggestions. I have spent some time in Xinjiang, I know how it is there from several years back, so I know this is a solvable problem for China if you have the right people making the plans and strategies. I am afraid the current crop of people there handling this problem do not have a good understanding of the nature of the problem. Force is always needed, but it has to be specific with subversive elements, but applying force to everyday general population to change their behavior and cultural practices will backfire on your state and provide propaganda ammunition to your enemy states. And you cannot deport 9 million Uyghurs, that is just not an available option in my opinion. Temporarily they will follow your orders, but remain resentful at heart.

The restriction on some religious practices, is this only limited to Uyghurs or does it apply to all Chinese religious minorities?

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## -SINAN-

On topic: Nice news. 

Off topic:


TaiShang said:


> LOL. Definitely. The kabab-eating trolls are probably in the worst shape in terms of their fracked-up foreign policy and hostile (kabab eaters do not even have embassy in several neighboring countries) regional environment.


Who are these trolls ?? Can you give me names ?

And regarding "worst shape".... 



olcayto said:


> 'm pretty sure kebab tastes way more better than dog stew


Mate, don't be unfair to our Chinese friends.... they have to eat whatever they find. How else they can feed 1 Billion stomachs ?

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## GCTom

Xinjiang is probably the most developed city in/near Central Asia. It is the focal city for the rest of China connects through to all other Central Asian countries. As I see it, when China and C.Asia develops more transportation and economical connections, Xinjiang will develop and grow much more in the future; similar to Shanghai/Shenzhen is today.

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## Jlaw

jkroo said:


> I still think there are only management and economic problems. Uyghur people are very honest, generous and simple.
> The youth can't be terrorist without misleading. When the regional economy developed, I wonder whether Uyghurs would show sympathy to Turks like Turks did today?
> As we Chinese all know that if they work hard enough it's easier to make money than Han. Many reports can prove my point.
> And there are many rich men in Xinjiang.
> Let's wait another economic miracle.



The gov't have tried, but some Uighurs are unwilling to learn our language and adapt. The opportunity is there, it is up to each individual to succeed. Success doesn't come knocking on one's door.

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## terranMarine

GCTom said:


> Xinjiang is probably the most developed city in/near Central Asia. It is the focal city for the rest of China connects through to all other Central Asian countries. As I see it, when China and C.Asia develops more transportation and economical connections, Xinjiang will develop and grow much more in the future; similar to Shanghai/Shenzhen is today.



Xinjiang is a province

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## kalu_miah

I would like PDF members (both Chinese and others) to take the time and go through these three research papers to make yourself familiar with the issue. Its a complex issue and without in depth knowledge, it is unfair to pass judgement on this issue:
http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/pubs/pdf/rr13-810.pdf
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=jmeil
http://www.eastwestcenter.org/fileadmin/stored/pdfs/PS015.pdf

It is possible that there are propaganda in the above, I will appreciate if you could please point out anything that is not accurate in the above papers and does not match with reality on the ground.

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## GCTom

terranMarine said:


> Xinjiang is a province



Right, I meant Urumqi in the Autonomous Region of China.

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## TaiShang

kalu_miah said:


> the US and even India are officially secular countries, but separation of church and state does not mean reduction of personal freedom for practicing their own religion



Secularism can come in different hues. Often people make difference between Anglo-Saxon and French secularisms. China will retain the right to interpret its own secularism for sure. But, as far as I can see it, Chinese secularism does not want religion to be too visible in public places (government offices, schools, etc). Up until recently, Turkey, too, practiced this version of secularism although currently they are moving toward a Salafi-style state-sunni sect mixture. Again, China cannot take lecture from others' practices; if it works for them, well, praise to them.



kalu_miah said:


> both of the above states do not interfere with personal space of people to practice their religion as much as China



In the US, any religious (Islamic) activity carried out in the public is closely being monitored. Especially after the 9/11. It is mostly the minority behavior that defines the majority reaction. I guess it is sort of a cycle; violence breeds tougher measures, and tougher measures lead some into more desperate actions. But, here, it is not the state, with its absolute right to legal violence, to give in. The Chinese state cannot show weakness.



kalu_miah said:


> China as a one party much more authoritarian system, is expected not to give as much freedom, but people will compare and make this an issue, they will inevitably say that look religious people have so much freedom in the West or even in much poorer country like India (even though large number of people get killed in communal Hindu-Muslim riots every few years), how come China do not provide the same rights?



People have absolute right to practice religion in their private life. But, I think in China, public space is restrictied and it applies to all sort of religions and sects. The West, also, is not a unified space. For example, France has a tougher dress code in public area. Hence, it is not about China being authoritarian; every government is authoritarian by nature. It is about the rule of law that applies to everybody.



kalu_miah said:


> It is not like giving these rights will enhance their feeling for separatism some how, the effect I think will be exactly the opposite.



It depends, I think, on what sort of rights are being given. Public space rules can be relaxed (although I am against a gross display of religiousity in public) but it will hardly mean in China that they will be granted religious autonomy to run their own schools, to have their own separate civil law etc. The root of Xinjiang terrorism is that the terrorists do not simply want the right to cover their head or go to the mosque to pray (these rights are inherent to them already). They want rights for a seperate religious entity, such as running madrasas. This, in my opinion, will lead to more separatism and terrorism.

Also, let's keep in mind that, the few hard-core terror groups will not be impressed by any move by China as what they want is a separate political entity of their own. You may compare this with ISIS.



kalu_miah said:


> The restriction on some religious practices, is this only limited to Uyghurs or does it apply to all Chinese religious minorities?



It applies to everybody. Hence the demolition of churches without licence. In China religion is regulated by the state and state-sanctioned religious personalities. It may not be left to the wish of each religious groups. (Still in Turkey, all friday sermons are unified and state-sanctioned. You may not just go up there and speak your mind. On many instances, through friday sermons, the government propagates itself, legitimizes its policies. China will certainly not become like this; but, people, sooner or later, have to learn themselves how to be moderate, modern, and secular-minded while observing their faith in their personal lives and carrying out acts of goodness like community work and charity).

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## BoQ77

Hu Songshan said:


> Government employees can fast as much as they want after they leave the party, my opinion the students should be allowed to however rule of no religion is set for party, CPC employees are to be focused on China's development and economy and noting will hinder hat not religion meaning all religions Christianity and Buddhism as well, majority seem to have no problem with it.
> 
> Yes, Refrain going off topic.



I see no problem for officials of Muslim countries during Ramadan month, even the athletics


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## Airboss786

Sinan said:


> Officials in China's turbulent north-western region of Xinjiang are tightening restrictions on Muslim practices including mass prayers during Ramadan, according to government notices.
> 
> Government employees and Communist party members are banned from* fasting, wearing veils or growing beards*, said circulars posted on several official websites. Other measures - which appear to vary area to area - include forcing restaurants to maintain their usual opening hours instead of shifting them in light of dawn-to-dusk fasting.
> 
> Religious controls are usually stricter during Ramadan but experts say this year's are noticeably stronger and believe it is the first time they have been published rather than passed on orally.
> 
> A notice on the Zhaosu county website said that ideological education had to be stepped up in the face of "violent and disruptive activities by religious extremists, separatists and terrorists".
> 
> Last month saw the worst violence for a decade with a string of fatal attacks including an assault on police in Kashgar that left 16 officers dead and 16 wounded. No one has claimed responsibility but officials have blamed Uighur separatists.
> 
> Two of the towns that posted notices, Xinhe and Shaya, are near Kuqa, where 11 people died in suicide bombings and police shootings a few days later.
> 
> Around half the population of the vast region of Xinjiang is composed of Muslim Uighurs. *Many resent the religious and cultural restrictions placed upon them* and some seek an independent East Turkestan.
> 
> A note on the Shaya government website said propaganda and inspections should be stepped up during the period. *"Fasting and participation in religious activities by party members and students is forbidden*," it said.
> 
> The note called for stronger security at mosques, saying that officials should "prohibit playing recordings, videos or using loudspeakers to force people to take part in fasting. Work units or individuals are not allowed to hand out religious propaganda in public areas."
> 
> It said people were forbidden from forcing others to fast, attend religious activities or cover their face with veils. "Effective measures" should be taken to ensure people who already had beards and veils removed them, the note said, although it appears it may have been referring to officials and public sector workers.
> 
> A Zhaosu county website notice said officials should "try to reduce Ramadan's influence on society as much as possible".
> 
> It told them to "dissuade people from attending organised and planned worship in large groups in order to prevent mass incidents; prevent, guide and stop situations like closing restaurants during Ramadan, students attending religious activities, women going into mosques with veils and shops stopping selling wines and cigarettes".
> 
> "To the best of my knowledge it's the first time this has been explicitly spelled out in this way - normally these instructions are not put in writing," said Nicholas Bequelin, an expert on Xinjiang at Human Rights Watch. Measures such as the restrictions on restaurants were "definitely more intrusive than before," he said.
> 
> "What has been driving these increasingly invasive restrictions on religious and cultural behaviour is the fear that Uighurs are not loyal to the party and government," Bequelin said. "It used to be the case that some cadres in the 80s and early 90s were clearly religious. That's not possible any more because the state sees what it regards as ostentatious religiosity as an act of defiance towards the government."
> 
> China officials tighten restrictions on Muslim practices | World news | theguardian.com
> China bans Muslims from fasting during Holy Ramadan



_*Too Funny.....China is all for 'yellow fever' luvin' men but can't allow a religious sect to practice its most sacred time of the year! What a 'Farce'! Chainks need to *_'lighten up'!

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## TaiShang

*Police ends Xinjiang anti-terror drills*
*China.org.cn*

Chinese police on Monday concluded large-scale anti-terror drills in Xinjiang.

*The week-long drills were held in six major cities and prefectures including Kashgar and capital city Urumqi, focusing on practice of responses to violent attacks in public places, hijackings and explosions.*

Various corps from local military headquarters, national anti-terror commandos as well as armed police forces participated in the maneuver.

China launched a year-long crackdown on terrorism in the Uygur autonomous region after a bomb attack killed 39 people in an Urumqi market in May.

*The first month of the campaign saw 32 terrorist gangs busted, over 380 suspects apprehended, and 315 people sentenced by the courts.*

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## jkroo

kalu_miah said:


> I would like PDF members (both Chinese and others) to take the time and go through these three research papers to make yourself familiar with the issue. Its a complex issue and without in depth knowledge, it is unfair to pass judgement on this issue:
> http://www.psc.isr.umich.edu/pubs/pdf/rr13-810.pdf
> http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=jmeil
> http://www.eastwestcenter.org/fileadmin/stored/pdfs/PS015.pdf
> 
> It is possible that there are propaganda in the above, I will appreciate if you could please point out anything that is not accurate in the above papers and does not match with reality on the ground.



To argue those propaganda above is really a time-consuming work.

Bro, Xinjiang do have some problems and most of them are the same to the other provinces of China. Nothing is perfect. The problem is to be a problem is that the west make it political. In their eyes, communism is a sin. Could you expect any positive views about China? No, never.

What China do today always be examined under the magnifying glasses and criticize China is a easy business in many fields. Hope you have seen many cases about China in the international communities. Chinese people are all well aware about this. So you need some Chinese sites to balance your opinions if possible.

The Chinese behavior patterns always be do much and talk less. This kind of attack exists decades hence will still be there for many decades. You should know it. Anyway, Chinese people are not the frogs seat in the deep well(narrow minded) , as a friend of China, you are welcomed to discuss anything with us.

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## kalu_miah

jkroo said:


> To argue those propaganda above is really a time-consuming work.
> 
> Bro, Xinjiang do have some problems and most of them are the same to the other provinces of China. Nothing is perfect. The problem is to be a problem is that the west make it political. In their eyes, communism is a sin. Could you expect any positive views about China? No, never.
> 
> What China do today always be examined under the magnifying glasses and criticize China is a easy business in many fields. Hope you have seen many cases about China in the international communities. Chinese people are all well aware about this. So you need some Chinese sites to balance your opinions if possible.
> 
> The Chinese behavior patterns always be do much and talk less. This kind of attack exists decades hence will still be there for many decades. You should know it. Anyway, Chinese people are not the frogs seat in the deep well(narrow minded) , as a friend of China, you are welcomed to discuss anything with us.



Bro, thanks for your confidence in me as a friend of China and Chinese people. I also have confidence in Chinese people and govt. to solve their own internal problems.

What you said is correct, that the West is trying to put Xinjiang under microscope and highlight your weakness. And Muslim world is a very underdeveloped part of the world and very easily swayed by emotion without looking at the whole picture or taking the long view. There are far more serious situations in the world, for example what is taking place in Gaza now, and we all know what role the West plays there. The unnecessary situation in Iraq and as a by product of that Syria, we all know who did what. This entire "Islamic terrorism" problem is because the West decided to breakup Ottoman empire and oil resources were placed with people who decided to promote their fringe ideas, and then finally the West also decided to utilize this fringe view to indoctrinate extremist foot soldiers to defeat Soviet Union in Afghanistan. The gene of extremism was pulled out of the bottle by West's hand and there is no putting it back, unless the Muslim world can find a better more constructive friend and partner to solve its myriad problems that came out from centuries of attacks by the some world powers. So the West is in no position to take the moral high ground and lecture others, considering the long track record.

Every year you have new graduates coming out from university. New generations with more open minds and creativity are joining the govt. Essentially this is a social science problem. I am sure eventually they will find solutions to these problems. The key I believe would be to turn the problem part of the population into assets, as I briefly mentioned earlier.

China has succeeded in many areas and soon, in a few decades, I am sure will reach the level of the West in most areas of technological development. So it seems highly unlikely that China will lag behind in solving social problems for their own minority population, with all the resources and skills you have available.


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## JSCh

This is from the weibo(Chinese version of twitter) of a muslim girl in Yunnan, China.

Time: 2014 June 30, 4 a.m. 
Place: Yunnan university mess hall. 
Event: Break fast(? or should be breakfast? anyway, direct translation "eat fast rice") with fellow muslim brother and sister of Yunnan university.







我在云大封斋#一切赞颂，全归真主！这是安拉给予我们的恩典！感谢云大对于穆斯林的理解和支持，凌晨4点，感谢宿管老师们早起为大家开门，感谢食堂的叔叔专车接送，感谢阿姨们为我们准备饭菜和茶水。感赞安拉，在毕业前我收到了一份最好的礼物。我爱云大！

Google Translate:
I was in Yunnan University fasting # Praise be to Allah! This is to give us the grace of Allah! Big thanks to Yunnan University the understanding and support for Muslims, 4:00, thanks to the teachers dorm door for everyone to get up early, thanks to the canteen uncle shuttle service, thank aunts prepare meals and tea for us. Praise be to Allah, before graduation I received a best gift. I love Yunnan University!


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## Imran Khan

Good job china


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## -SINAN-

JSCh said:


> This is from the weibo(Chinese version of twitter) of a muslim girl in Yunnan, China.
> 
> Time: 2014 June 30, 4 a.m.
> Place: Yunnan university mess hall.
> Event: Break fast(? or should be breakfast? anyway, direct translation "eat fast rice") with fellow muslim brother and sister of Yunnan university.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 我在云大封斋#一切赞颂，全归真主！这是安拉给予我们的恩典！感谢云大对于穆斯林的理解和支持，凌晨4点，感谢宿管老师们早起为大家开门，感谢食堂的叔叔专车接送，感谢阿姨们为我们准备饭菜和茶水。感赞安拉，在毕业前我收到了一份最好的礼物。我爱云大！
> 
> Google Translate:
> I was in Yunnan University fasting # Praise be to Allah! This is to give us the grace of Allah! Big thanks to Yunnan University the understanding and support for Muslims, 4:00, thanks to the teachers dorm door for everyone to get up early, thanks to the canteen uncle shuttle service, thank aunts prepare meals and tea for us. Praise be to Allah, before graduation I received a best gift. I love Yunnan University!



I can't see the pictures clear..... is it day time or night time ? In Fasting you don't eat in day time. You can only eat from sunset to sunrise...

Edit: Okay i see it was 4:00 am... no problem then.


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## turbo charged

Pakistan and other islamic countries should lodge a protest and raise it on diplomatic level if this news is correct.
fasting is a fard(obligation) and it has to be performed by all means.
just like salah(obligation) has to be performed even in war.
read the incident of karbala

China by doing this will only isolate itself from muslim world.
muslim history of xinjiang goes back to centuries.
they are not inferior or slaves of han chinese.

treat them with respect .

do not blame Pakistan if your citizens cause of state oppression start protesting.

commands of ALLAH come first.

then comes the worldly dealings and business and friendships which are regulated by the do's and dont's provided by the shariah.

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## third eye

*Beijing bans Xinjiang officials and schools from participating in Ramadan*

Beijing bans Xinjiang officials and schools from participating in Ramadan | South China Morning Post

*



*
A woman distributes food on a table as she waits to break fast with other devotees on the first day of Ramadan at the Niujie Mosque in Beijing. Photo: Reuters

Beijing has banned civil servants, students and teachers in the mainly Muslim Xinjiang region from taking part in Ramadan fasting, government websites said.

This has prompted condemnation from an exile group today.

The ruling Communist party is officially atheist, and for years has restricted fasting in Xinjiang, home to the mostly Muslim Uygur minority.

Xinjiang sees regular and often deadly clashes between Uygurs and state security forces, and Beijing has blamed recent deadly attacks elsewhere in the country on militants seeking independence for the resource-rich region.

Rights groups blame tensions on religious and cultural restrictions placed on Uygurs and other Muslim minorities in the vast area, which abuts Central Asia.

Several government departments posted notices on their websites in recent days banning fasting during Ramadan, which began this weekend. During the holy month, the faithful fast from dawn to dusk and strive to be more pious.

The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city said on its website on Monday that "civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities".

The state-run Bozhou Radio and TV University said on its website that it would "enforce the ban on party members, teachers, and young people from taking part in Ramadan activities".

*"We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe a Ramadan fast," it added.*

A weather bureau in Qaraqash county in western Xinjiang said on its website that "in accordance with instructions from higher authorities", it "calls on all current and retired staff not to fast during Ramadan".

A state office which manages the Tarim River basin posted pictures of its staff wearing traditional Uyghur "doppa" caps tucking into a group meal on Saturday.

"Although the meal coincided with the Muslim festival of Ramadan, the cadres who took part expressed a positive attitude and will lead the non-fasting," it said.

Beijing has in the past said that restrictions on fasting are meant to ensure the health of government employees.

Dilxadi Rexiti, a spokesman for the exiled World Uygur Congress, cited local sources as saying that authorities encouraged Uygurs to eat free meals on Monday, and* inspected homes to check if the fast was being observed.*

"China taking these kind of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uygurs, will create more conflict," he said.

"We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uygurs and stop political repression of Ramadan."

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## Edison Chen

In fact, there is never a religion clash, there is only interest conflict. Religion is just an excuse.

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## jkroo

We have commitment in this period. Mislim eat near 03:00 they turn the bell ring to min volume and we have no problem with this. 
I have seen some students count the fasting days.

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## imran_ind

BEIJING: China has ordered schools and government offices in the northwest Xinjiang region to ban fasting during the ongoing holy month of Ramzan.

The ban orders are being issued through websites of schools and government agencies in the region as well. "Civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities," said Turfan city's commercial affairs bureau on its website.

The local government in Xinjiang had earlier asked its employees to refrain from observing Ramzan saying fasting can hurt their health.

"We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe Ramadan fast," the state-run Bozhou Radio and TV University said on its website. "We would enforce the ban on party members, teachers, and young people from taking part in Ramzan activities."

The Chinese Communist Party and the local government in Xinjiang discourage large prayer meetings and gatherings due to fears of separatism.

The fasting ban orders are believed to have come from Beijing's Public Security Bureau. A weather bureau in Qaraqash County in western Xinjiang cited "instructions from higher authorities" while asking "all current and retired staff not to fast during Ramzan".


"China taking these kinds of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uighurs, will create more conflict," exiled World Uyghur Congress spokesman Dilxat Raxit said in a statement. "We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uighurs and stop political repression of Ramzan.

China bans Ramzan fasting in Xinjiang - The Times of India

disgusting

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## itaskol

“The ban orders are being issued through websites of schools and government agencies in the region as well.”
which websites？can someone find one？
rubbish news

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## Indus Falcon

Wrong decision. This is going to be counter productive.

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## imran_ind

itaskol said:


> “The ban orders are being issued through websites of schools and government agencies in the region as well.”
> which websites？can someone find one？
> rubbish news



China Bans Ramadan: Uighur Muslims Punished For Fasting In Holy Month

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## itaskol

imran_ind said:


> China Bans Ramadan: Uighur Muslims Punished For Fasting In Holy Month


“Turfan city's commercial affairs bureau on its website.” we dont even have the so called turfan city's commercial affairs bureau.
if a foreign media claim that bans order through some Chinese website , they should provide links.

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## dlclong

Please send website links posted ban------“Turfan city's commercial affairs bureau on its website.”

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## imran_ind

u cannot question the credibility of the news every coz u don't seem to accept the facts


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## itaskol

imran_ind said:


> u cannot question the credibility of the news every coz u don't seem to accept the facts


why can I not question the credibility of news？
and which fact？ piss off ，you indian troll

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## dlclong

Please tell me the benefits of the government banned it, does stir up hatred?
I saw it on the Chinese domestic uygur BBS , and there are a lot of young people, some people asked in the discussion of Ramadan, called the ban completely,
I do not know, some foreigners, from where to get wrong, or one-sided information, is always to make trouble.
Ban Ramadan? How to supervise each person? Please tell me
In addition, China has its own rules and regulations, please foreigners, do not tell me what right or wrong. Communist officials are generally not allowed to believers, but some minorities, special, government would not unduly interfere.


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## walle990

its simple, quit your government job if you want to fast.


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## Reviewer21

Yeah right the whole world is liar only Chinese are the honesty flag holders here, go and search google it's all over the internet

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## Mr.S.Singh

nothing new, its been happening since 2012 or something
China region bans Muslims from fasting during Ramadan | The National
China curbs Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

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## itaskol

Reviewer21 said:


> Yeah right the whole world is liar only Chinese are the honesty flag holders here, go and search google it's all over the internet


google yourself and find out which chinese website has this kind of bans.
you can use google translation.
if you can find a single website that we ban youth or student fasting ，you win

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## Sam.

itaskol said:


> google yourself and find out which chinese website has this kind of bans.
> you can use google translation.
> if you can find a single website that we ban youth or student fasting ，you win


Every news channel in the world is not credible except Chinese one's.

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## dlclong

Reviewer21 said:


> Yeah right the whole world is liar only Chinese are the honesty flag holders here, go and search google it's all over the internet


 Chinese law, not to minors under the age of 18 spread religion because minors do not have the ability to judge the independent thinking. But this law is not strictly implemented, in my hometown, many children around the age of 10 are often go to Christian, Muslim families have many children to enter the mosque. China Given this provision, the official would not be encouraged to learn in Ramadan fasting. 
Communist Party of China have more stringent regulations, government officials, generally are not allowed to credit religion. But some minorities, but no how to perform. 
Therefore, some foreigner, I want you to understand China, and then to talk nonsense. China has its own rules and regulations, please foreigners, do not tell me what right or wrong

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## itaskol

Sam. said:


> Every news channel in the world is not credible except Chinese one's.


keep saying rubbish doenst change anything.
you need evidence.
it is very simple
“"Civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities," said Turfan city's commercial affairs bureau on its website”
go and find the link... thank s

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## dlclong

Sam. said:


> Every news channel in the world is not credible except Chinese one's.


 First of all, tell you that China has religious freedom. 
Secondly, in freedom, we have our own rules, foreigners do not find fault with us. 
Also, please tell your Prime Minister, for the massacre of Muslims committed sins to repent, again meddling.

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## Indus Falcon

itaskol said:


> “The ban orders are being issued through websites of schools and government agencies in the region as well.”
> which websites？can someone find one？
> rubbish news


*China restricts Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang*
Several government departments posted notices on their websites

AFP
Published: 13:47 July 2, 2014
Beijing: China has banned civil servants, students and teachers in its mainly Muslim Xinjiang region from taking part in Ramadan fasting, government websites said, prompting condemnation from an exile group on Wednesday.

China’s ruling Communist party is officially atheist, and for years has restricted fasting in Xinjiang, home to the mostly Muslim Uighur minority.

Xinjiang sees regular and often deadly clashes between Uighurs and state security forces, and Beijing has blamed recent deadly attacks elsewhere in China on militants seeking independence for the resource-rich region.

Rights groups blame tensions on religious and cultural restrictions placed on Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the vast area, which abuts Central Asia.

Several government departments posted notices on their websites in recent days banning fasting during Ramadan, which began this weekend. During the holy month, the faithful fast from dawn to dusk and strive to be more pious.

The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city said on its website on Monday that “civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities”.

The state-run Bozhou Radio and TV university said on its website that it would “enforce the ban on party members, teachers, and young people from taking part in Ramadan activities”.

“We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe a Ramadan fast,” it added.

A weather bureau in Qaraqash county in western Xinjiang said on its website that “in accordance with instructions from higher authorities”, it “calls on all current and retired staff not to fast during Ramadan”.

A state office which manages the Tarim River basin posted pictures of its staff wearing traditional Uighur “doppa” caps tucking into a group meal on Saturday.

“Although the meal coincided with the Muslim festival of Ramadan, the cadres who took part expressed a positive attitude and will lead the non-fasting,” it said.

China has in the past said that restrictions on fasting are meant to ensure the health of government employees.

Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the exiled World Uyghur Congress, cited local sources as saying that authorities encouraged Uighurs to eat free meals on Monday, and inspected homes to check if the fast was being observed.

“China taking these kind of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uighurs, will create more conflict,” he said.

“We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uighurs and stop political repression of Ramadan.”

China restricts Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang | GulfNews.com



itaskol said:


> google yourself and find out which chinese website has this kind of bans.
> you can use google translation.
> if you can find a single website that we ban youth or student fasting ，you win


The problem is that when news agencies like AFP report something like this, it carries with it a certain degree of credibility. Since using google is no good if you don't speak Chinese, help from Chinese speaking members would be appreciated. Thanks!!


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## Victory

Why China. why?

is fasting offensive? its their holiest month in islamic calender

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## wolfschanzze

itaskol said:


> google yourself and find out which chinese website has this kind of bans.
> you can use google translation.
> if you can find a single website that we ban youth or student fasting ，you win


It was news even in 2010 when i was in china,Only xinjiang region has this rules.Rest are exempt as the muslim population in mainland china is less,also they are not in government jobs, they only run Restaurants,shops or roadside meat trolleys.



dlclong said:


> First of all, tell you that China has religious freedom.
> Secondly, in freedom, we have our own rules, foreigners do not find fault with us.
> Also, *please tell your Prime Minister, for the massacre of Muslims committed sins to repent*, again meddling.






Victory said:


> Why China. why?
> 
> is fasting offensive? its their holiest month in islamic calender


They want to get them off the habit and slowly Change them. If you know what i mean?

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## itaskol

Abu Nasar said:


> *China restricts Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang*
> Several government departments posted notices on their websites
> 
> AFP
> Published: 13:47 July 2, 2014
> Beijing: China has banned civil servants, students and teachers in its mainly Muslim Xinjiang region from taking part in Ramadan fasting, government websites said, prompting condemnation from an exile group on Wednesday.
> 
> China’s ruling Communist party is officially atheist, and for years has restricted fasting in Xinjiang, home to the mostly Muslim Uighur minority.
> 
> Xinjiang sees regular and often deadly clashes between Uighurs and state security forces, and Beijing has blamed recent deadly attacks elsewhere in China on militants seeking independence for the resource-rich region.
> 
> Rights groups blame tensions on religious and cultural restrictions placed on Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the vast area, which abuts Central Asia.
> 
> Several government departments posted notices on their websites in recent days banning fasting during Ramadan, which began this weekend. During the holy month, the faithful fast from dawn to dusk and strive to be more pious.
> 
> The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city said on its website on Monday that “civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities”.
> 
> The state-run Bozhou Radio and TV university said on its website that it would “enforce the ban on party members, teachers, and young people from taking part in Ramadan activities”.
> 
> “We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe a Ramadan fast,” it added.
> 
> A weather bureau in Qaraqash county in western Xinjiang said on its website that “in accordance with instructions from higher authorities”, it “calls on all current and retired staff not to fast during Ramadan”.
> 
> A state office which manages the Tarim River basin posted pictures of its staff wearing traditional Uighur “doppa” caps tucking into a group meal on Saturday.
> 
> “Although the meal coincided with the Muslim festival of Ramadan, the cadres who took part expressed a positive attitude and will lead the non-fasting,” it said.
> 
> China has in the past said that restrictions on fasting are meant to ensure the health of government employees.
> 
> Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the exiled World Uyghur Congress, cited local sources as saying that authorities encouraged Uighurs to eat free meals on Monday, and inspected homes to check if the fast was being observed.
> 
> “China taking these kind of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uighurs, will create more conflict,” he said.
> 
> “We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uighurs and stop political repression of Ramadan.”
> 
> China restricts Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang | GulfNews.com


you keep posting the same news
“The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city said on its website on Monday that “civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities”.” go and find this so called chinese goverment link.
if you cant you can ask a chinese reading mod to find it.

we can make a bet.
if this chinese link exist and indeed said student cannot take part in fasting. let the mod ban me.
if this chinese link doesnt exist or didnt said student cannot take part in fasting， let the mod ban you

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## dlclong

Abu Nasar said:


> *China restricts Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang*
> Several government departments posted notices on their websites
> 
> AFP
> Published: 13:47 July 2, 2014
> Beijing: China has banned civil servants, students and teachers in its mainly Muslim Xinjiang region from taking part in Ramadan fasting, government websites said, prompting condemnation from an exile group on Wednesday.
> 
> China’s ruling Communist party is officially atheist, and for years has restricted fasting in Xinjiang, home to the mostly Muslim Uighur minority.
> 
> Xinjiang sees regular and often deadly clashes between Uighurs and state security forces, and Beijing has blamed recent deadly attacks elsewhere in China on militants seeking independence for the resource-rich region.
> 
> Rights groups blame tensions on religious and cultural restrictions placed on Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in the vast area, which abuts Central Asia.
> 
> Several government departments posted notices on their websites in recent days banning fasting during Ramadan, which began this weekend. During the holy month, the faithful fast from dawn to dusk and strive to be more pious.
> 
> The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city said on its website on Monday that “civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities”.
> 
> The state-run Bozhou Radio and TV university said on its website that it would “enforce the ban on party members, teachers, and young people from taking part in Ramadan activities”.
> 
> “We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe a Ramadan fast,” it added.
> 
> A weather bureau in Qaraqash county in western Xinjiang said on its website that “in accordance with instructions from higher authorities”, it “calls on all current and retired staff not to fast during Ramadan”.
> 
> A state office which manages the Tarim River basin posted pictures of its staff wearing traditional Uighur “doppa” caps tucking into a group meal on Saturday.
> 
> “Although the meal coincided with the Muslim festival of Ramadan, the cadres who took part expressed a positive attitude and will lead the non-fasting,” it said.
> 
> China has in the past said that restrictions on fasting are meant to ensure the health of government employees.
> 
> Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the exiled World Uyghur Congress, cited local sources as saying that authorities encouraged Uighurs to eat free meals on Monday, and inspected homes to check if the fast was being observed.
> 
> “China taking these kind of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uighurs, will create more conflict,” he said.
> 
> “We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uighurs and stop political repression of Ramadan.”
> 
> China restricts Ramadan fasting in Xinjiang | GulfNews.com
> 
> 
> The problem is that when news agencies like AFP report something like this, it carries with it a certain degree of credibility. Since using google is no good if you don't speak Chinese, help from Chinese speaking members would be appreciated. Thanks!!


This title is obviously exaggerating,
It gives the first impression is like "China banned all Ramadan."
I saw it on the Chinese domestic uygur BBS , and there are a lot of young people, some people asked in the discussion of Ramadan,I do not know, some foreigners, from where to get wrong, or one-sided information, is always to make trouble.
Ban Ramadan? How to supervise each person?
In addition, Chinese law, not to minors under the age of 18 spread religion because minors do not have the ability to judge the independent thinking. But this law is not strictly implemented, in my hometown, many children around the age of 10 are often go to Christian, Muslim families have many children to enter the mosque. China Given this provision, the official would not be encouraged to learn in Ramadan fasting.
Communist Party of China have more stringent regulations, government officials, generally are not allowed to credit religion. But some minorities, but no how to perform.
China no matter what do, will be found "error."Even the hated Muslim Indians, can be a way to attack China, showing that this "news" value.
China has its own laws, religious freedom, and that these laws I do not think there is an error.

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## Indus Falcon

@itaskol @dlclong Why don't you guys look up this website and tell us what it actually says?

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## itaskol

Abu Nasar said:


> @itaskol @dlclong Why don't you guys look up this website and tell us what it actually says?


I cant find anything about youth or student fasting ban in any goverment link.
and the so called The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city doesnt even exist.

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## Aepsilons

itaskol said:


> I cant find anything about youth or student fasting ban in any goverment link.
> and the so called The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city doesnt even exist.





China Bans Ramadan Fast in Muslim Northwest - ABC News


BBC News - China bans Xinjiang officials from observing Ramadan fast


No fast for CPC members during Ramadan - Headlines, features, photo and videos from ecns.cn|china|news|chinanews|ecns|cns


China bans Ramadan fasting in Muslim northwest - Washington Times


China bans Ramadan fast in restive region | News , World | THE DAILY STAR


gulftoday.ae | China bans Ramadan fast in Xinjiang


China launches ill-advised crackdown on Ramadan - The Washington Post

The world knows all about this situation, my friend.

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## Jlaw

Great news. Muslims must follow our rules. Get with the program, it's 2014.

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## Aepsilons

Unfortunately the fact that China decides to target only Muslims , especially during one of the most holiest months in Islam, is antithetic to China's claims of tolerance towards religious practice. I have not heard such kind of travesty even towards Christians in China during Christian holy days such as Christmas, Easter, Lent, etc.

It would be better if China implements a more enlightened approach in regards to its religious minorities. Such processes would build a better / positive image for China in the world community, especially from the 1.2 billion Muslims in the world.

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## surya kiran

Just as people keep saying, when in Saudi follow Saudi rules, when in China follow Chinese rules. China is a not a 'secular' country. Its a country which follows atheist principles and they are well within their rights to define their laws. Don't want to follow or assimilate with Chinese culture, shut up and immigrate.


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## dlclong

Abu Nasar said:


> @itaskol @dlclong Why don't you guys look up this website and tell us what it actually says?


schools, government agencies, and certainly not encourage fasting.
Chinese law,
The age of 18 are not allowed to preach minors
because minors do not have the ability to judge the independent thinking.
In view of this provision, the Government will encourage officials and minors fasting, I think it is in the maintenance of law.
But this law is not strictly implemented, in my hometown, many children around the age of 10 are often go to Christian, Muslim families have many children to enter the mosque. China Given this provision, the official would not be encouraged to learn in Ramadan fasting.
Communist Party of China have more stringent regulations, government officials, generally are not allowed to credit religion. But some minorities, but no how to perform.


I've checked, Turpan no so-called "The commercial affairs bureau of Turfan city", there is one, Turpan, China Merchants 吐鲁番地区招商局 which is its official website,
This is the Xinjiang government's Religious Affairs Bureau website 新疆维吾尔自治区民族事务委员会（宗教事务局）, the above information is not forbidden Ramadan
This is the formal government website.

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## Aepsilons

surya kiran said:


> Just as people keep saying, when in Saudi follow Saudi rules, when in China follow Chinese rules. China is a not a 'secular' country. Its a country which follows atheist principles and they are well within their rights to define their laws. Don't want to follow or assimilate with Chinese culture, shut up and immigrate.




Actually, *Article 36* of the _Constitution of the People's Republic of China_ guarantees Freedom of Religion:

*Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief*. No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.


*Reference: *
http://english.people.com.cn/constitution/constitution.html

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## itaskol

Abu Nasar said:


> @itaskol @dlclong Why don't you guys look up this website and tell us what it actually says?


I find the original link.
地区商务局认真执行“党团员、国家公职人员和学生不能参与封斋等宗教活动规定”-吐鲁番地区商务局
this website do exist.


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## dlclong

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Unfortunately the fact that China decides to target only Muslims , especially during one of the most holiest months in Islam, is antithetic to China's claims of tolerance towards religious practice. I have not heard such kind of travesty even towards Christians in China during Christian holy days such as Christmas, Easter, Lent, etc.
> 
> It would be better if China implements a more enlightened approach in regards to its religious minorities. Such processes would build a better / positive image for China in the world community, especially from the 1.2 billion Muslims in the world.


 lol

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## Aepsilons

Chinese Government has a Moral and Constitutional Responsibility to protect the rights of All Chinese citizens, especially those who wish to practice their religion, by Articles 36 and 37 of the Constitution:



*Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief*. No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.

*Article 37. The freedom of person of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable*. No citizen may be arrested except with the approval or by decision of a people's procuratorate or by decision of a people's court, and arrests must be made by a public security organ. *Unlawful deprivation or restriction of citizens' freedom of person by detention or other means is prohibited; *and unlawful search of the person of citizens is prohibited. 


Reference: http://english.people.com.cn/constitution/constitution.html

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## Jlaw

China is not Muslim friendly place like japan. Encourage all Allah's children to immigrate to japan. Japanese government will treat you very well. Abe will provide you an autonomous region in Fukoushima prefecture. If you cannot go there, the second choice is Australia, a Muslim friendly place to build mosques, raise your children and best of all, the people will welcome you with hugs and kisses. For the more daring, democratic India is another good place. There, as a female you will receive more than just hugs and kisses. You get the empress special.

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## mehboobkz

China has banned Ramadan for many Muslims in Xinjiang – Quartz 

By Heather Timmons @HeathaT July 2, 2014





Men transport a goat during Ramadan in Xinjing. Reuters/Stringer

Ramadan, the Islamic religious festival marked by a month of fasting, officially started June 28 around the world but has been effectively cancelled for many Muslims in Western China. Government offices, hospitals and schools in China’s Xinjiang region, where about half the 22 million population is Muslim, have banned the traditional sunup to sundown fast and other religious activities,according to notifications on local school and government websites.

+


Students, teachers, civil servants and and Communist Party cadre members—a far-flung group that includes everyone from nurses to engineers to scholars—are forbidden from fasting and other activities. Government-run websites are running prominent messages explaining the ban on fasting, and lauding Muslims who do not fast.

1


The crackdown on Ramadan comes amid a string of attacks, many linked to ethnic minorities across the Uyghur region, that have killed hundreds across China since last fall but have been concentrated in the Xinjiang region. In response, China’s government has sentenced dozens to prison in a mass public trial, and executed 13 people said to be connected to the attacks.

+


The Tarim River Basin Management Bureau in Xinjiang showed men in traditional caps eating during the daylight in a report (link in Chinese) about a Party Day celebration dated June 30:

+







“Although it was Ramadan, the party members and the officials in this area showed their attitudes and expressed their opinions by not fasting, which shows the advance of the Communist Party,” and shows they are people who admire science and want to improve society, the agency’s website said.

+


The Chinese Medicine Hospital in Yining asked staff to pledge in writing not to fastin order to “not affect normal work and life” in a post on their Sino Weibo page (link in Chinese). “We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe a Ramadan fast,” Bozhou Radio & Television University said in a statement, according to the AFP. A local weather bureau asked current _and_ retired staff not to fast.

+


The ban on following traditional religious practices during Ramadan is much more visible, widespread and strict than it has been in recent years. Last year, China’s party mouthpiece newspapers ran feel-good articles quoting high school students who said they were permitted to fast, despite reports to the contrary. In 2008, the local government forced Muslim restaurant owners to remain open during the daytime over the holiday, when they would have traditionally shut.

+


July 5 marks the anniversary of riots in the region that killed nearly 200 people in 2009, and Chinese authorities have also detained hundreds of people to prevent protests and demonstrations, the Uyghur Human Rights Project reports.


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## kalu_miah

Jlaw said:


> China is not Muslim friendly place like japan. Encourage all Allah's children to immigrate to japan. Japanese government will treat you very well. Abe will provide you an autonomous region in Fukoushima prefecture. If you cannot go there, the second choice is Australia, a Muslim friendly place to build mosques, raise your children and best of all, the people will welcome you with hugs and kisses. *For the more daring, democratic India is another good place. There, as a female you will receive more than just hugs and kisses. You get the empress special.*



LOL , good one.

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## dlclong

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Chinese Government has a Moral and Constitutional Responsibility to protect the rights of All Chinese citizens, especially those who wish to practice their religion, by Articles 36 and 37 of the Constitution:
> 
> 
> 
> *Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief*. No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.
> 
> *Article 37. The freedom of person of citizens of the People's Republic of China is inviolable*. No citizen may be arrested except with the approval or by decision of a people's procuratorate or by decision of a people's court, and arrests must be made by a public security organ. *Unlawful deprivation or restriction of citizens' freedom of person by detention or other means is prohibited; *and unlawful search of the person of citizens is prohibited.
> 
> 
> Reference: http://english.people.com.cn/constitution/constitution.html


(2) Implement the principle of secularism. No person shall use religion to interfere with state administrative, judicial intervention, the intervention of public school education and social education, never allow force anyone, especially children under the age of 18 to join the church, was ordained to the temple school, never allow the use of religion to oppose China Communist Party leadership and the socialist system, undermine national unity and national solidarity among peoples.

I think this is correct

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## third eye

Jlaw said:


> *China is not Muslim friendly place like japan*. Encourage all Allah's children to immigrate to japan. Japanese government will treat you very well. Abe will provide you an autonomous region in Fukoushima prefecture. If you cannot go there, the second choice is Australia, a Muslim friendly place to build mosques, raise your children and best of all, the people will welcome you with hugs and kisses. For the more daring, democratic India is another good place. There, as a female you will receive more than just hugs and kisses. You get the empress special.



Isnt it ironical that despite this, Pakistani posters here never stop extolling China for its virtues ?



kalu_miah said:


> LOL , good one.



You saw what you wanted to see & LOLed' on it but chose to ignore the opening line of the poster !

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## kalu_miah

@Hu Songshan , please note multiple thread on same subject:
China bans Ramzan fasting in Xinjiang


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## Levina

imran_ind said:


> BEIJING: China has ordered schools and government offices in the northwest Xinjiang region to ban fasting during the ongoing holy month of Ramzan.
> 
> The ban orders are being issued through websites of schools and government agencies in the region as well. "Civil servants and students cannot take part in fasting and other religious activities," said Turfan city's commercial affairs bureau on its website.
> 
> The local government in Xinjiang had earlier asked its employees to refrain from observing Ramzan saying fasting can hurt their health.
> 
> "We remind everyone that they are not permitted to observe Ramadan fast," the state-run Bozhou Radio and TV University said on its website. "We would enforce the ban on party members, teachers, and young people from taking part in Ramzan activities."
> 
> The Chinese Communist Party and the local government in Xinjiang discourage large prayer meetings and gatherings due to fears of separatism.
> 
> The fasting ban orders are believed to have come from Beijing's Public Security Bureau. A weather bureau in Qaraqash County in western Xinjiang cited "instructions from higher authorities" while asking "all current and retired staff not to fast during Ramzan".
> 
> 
> "China taking these kinds of coercive measures, restricting the faith of Uighurs, will create more conflict," exiled World Uyghur Congress spokesman Dilxat Raxit said in a statement. "We call on China to ensure religious freedom for Uighurs and stop political repression of Ramzan.
> 
> China bans Ramzan fasting in Xinjiang - The Times of India
> 
> disgusting



Thats shocking!!!
Muslims world over fast during ramadan without it effecting their performnance in work.



> The Chinese Communist Party and the local government in Xinjiang discourage large prayer meetings and gatherings due to fears of separatism.


Communist party's forlorn attempt at curbing anything and everything they see as a threat would back fire some day.

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## Jlaw

Jzaib said:


> Brother with all the honest and love i have in my heart for china .. It is a stupid move ... the oppression never solved the problem .. specially if it is the religious one .. the more the restriction u put them the more sympathy they will have .. the world dont cares what u do to the rebels but once the feel that u r being racist to muslims , there will be a reaction
> 
> Banning them to fast is not saving a muslim brother life .. it is like telling them we hate muslims and we dnt want u to be a muslim


Think of it from another perspective. Would you want your soldiers on alert against India to fast? Would you want your pilot flying you to fast? Would you want your athletes to fast before your next match?


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## surya kiran

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Actually, *Article 36* of the _Constitution of the People's Republic of China_ guarantees Freedom of Religion:
> 
> *Article 36. Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief*. No state organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion. The state protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the state. Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination.
> 
> 
> *Reference: *
> http://english.people.com.cn/constitution/constitution.html



And your point is? The Communist party is atheist. They allow religion, not same as they believe in it. If citizens believe it, so be it. You may be free to believe in God.

Reading the article, I find the following.

1. Normal activities. 
2. Disruption of public order
3. Impair health of citizens
4. Interfere educational system

With all of the above, they are well within their rights to enforce the ban if required citing the above four points.

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## Gautam

Their land, their laws. Anybody doesnt like it, is free to leave China. Simple.

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## dlclong

We China are not a theocratic religious state. 
We allow religion, but religion should in our laws, religious rules can not be greater than the law. Religion should not interfere in politics, education, and this is our bottom line, which is what most people agree. In the 19th century, the Qing Dynasty, in order to engage in the name of Christianity Taiping Rebellion, died hundreds of millions. I do not know why the Westerners while criticizing Islamic countries in the Middle East and regulations, the implementation of Islamic law while also China.
Yes, the French legislation banning women wearing black robes in public wearing of the veil, the EU agreed. Some people oppose it?

 
Yes, the French legislation banning women wearing black robes in public wearing of the veil, the EU agreed.
Some people oppose it?

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## third eye

dlclong said:


> We China are not a theocratic religious state.
> We allow religion, but religion should in our laws,* religious rules can not be greater than the law. Religion should not interfere in politics, education, and this is our bottom line,* which is what most people agree. In the 19th century, the Qing Dynasty, in order to engage in the name of Christianity Taiping Rebellion, died hundreds of millions. I do not know why the Westerners while criticizing Islamic countries in the Middle East and regulations, the implementation of Islamic law while also China.
> Yes, the French legislation banning women wearing black robes in public wearing of the veil, the EU agreed. Some people oppose it?
> 
> 
> Yes, the French legislation banning women wearing black robes in public wearing of the veil, the EU agreed.
> Some people oppose it?



I agree completely with the part in bold above. In addition to Politics & Education I would add social & national development too.

Everything has its place - religion is one of them.

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## Jlaw

dlclong said:


> We China are not a theocratic religious state.
> We allow religion, but religion should in our laws, religious rules can not be greater than the law. Religion should not interfere in politics, education, and this is our bottom line, which is what most people agree. In the 19th century, the Qing Dynasty, in order to engage in the name of Christianity Taiping Rebellion, died hundreds of millions. I do not know why the Westerners while criticizing Islamic countries in the Middle East and regulations, the implementation of Islamic law while also China.
> Yes, the French legislation banning women wearing black robes in public wearing of the veil, the EU agreed. Some people oppose it?


洋鬼子 try to destabilize China what else?


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## wise_owl

When the majority no-back-bone Chinese are told how to live their lives (one child per family) did they protest? then why you religious fanatics make an big issue about fasting... be like others... live as you are told in CHINA.


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## Farooq

As a Pakistani, I have great respect for my Chinese friends, but this is shocking and disappointing- China restricts Ramazan fasting in Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM


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## dlclong

Farooq said:


> As a Pakistani, I have great respect for my Chinese friends, but this is shocking and disappointing- China restricts Ramazan fasting in Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM


This title is exaggerated.
However, I think that a person is fasting, no one knows, no one forced to intervene. Like 18 years old non-believers of this provision, did not practice
Government officials are generally Communist Party, the Communist Party of their own articles of association, under normal circumstances can not be religious.
Students, generally 18 years of age, according to the provisions can not be religious, but it provides no execution. Therefore, the school does not encourage students to Ramadan fasting, as school officials and teachers, students play a leading role.
However, I think that a person is fasting, no one knows, no one forced to intervene. Like 18 years old non-believers of this provision, did not practice.
Adult, you can choose their own religion, nobody interfere with you fast.
Report is completely exaggerated, in order to emphasize that China is not actual "freedom" again,Proof of certain minorities" oppressed".
They never reported that China's special preferential policies given to minorities

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## Farooq

dlclong said:


> This title is exaggerated.
> However, I think that a person is fasting, no one knows, no one forced to intervene. Like 18 years old non-believers of this provision, did not practice
> Government officials are generally Communist Party, the Communist Party of their own articles of association, under normal circumstances can not be religious.
> Students, generally 18 years of age, according to the provisions can not be religious, but it provides no execution. Therefore, the school does not encourage students to Ramadan fasting, as school officials and teachers, students play a leading role.
> However, I think that a person is fasting, no one knows, no one forced to intervene. Like 18 years old non-believers of this provision, did not practice.
> Adult, you can choose their own religion, nobody interfere with you fast.
> Report is completely exaggerated, in order to emphasize that China is not actual "freedom" again,Proof of certain minorities" oppressed".
> They never reported that China's special preferential policies given to minorities



Well I see where you are coming from and the Western media is known for spreading propaganda against the Chinese.

I have a very stressful & tiring job of managing multiple restaurants, but I fast without any problems.

Also, many Muslims (students and teachers) around the world fast without any problems

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## dlclong

Farooq said:


> Well I see where you are coming from and the Western media is known for spreading propaganda against the Chinese.
> 
> I have a very stressful & tiring job of managing multiple restaurants, but I fast without any problems.
> 
> Also, many Muslims (students and teachers) around the world fast without any problems


 In recent years, Xinjiang, funded by Western countries, and some extreme tissue culture, some of the rapid rise of extremist ideology, the Chinese government had to consider a number of issues. 
I also said, China is not a country, after all, universal religion, religious interference in education, most people are opposed to the country's stability, this is a good requirement. 

If there is no interference by foreign forces, I do not mind.

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## rcrmj

half-w1tted people always believe in propaganda, it makes very sense that if you served as security, gov official or any vial position you should always put your duties at first then others..but simpleton china-haters' foul brains dont function in a normal way

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## dlclong

wise_owl said:


> When the majority no-back-bone Chinese are told how to live their lives (one child per family) did they protest? then why you religious fanatics make an big issue about fasting... be like others... live as you are told in CHINA.


 
use Cheating way to run to the United States of xinjiang's richest woemen, Rebiya kadeer, now is the anti-China's Uighur leader, she gave birth to 11 children in China.

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## asad71

The West never tire of circulating such disinformation to weaken China and create a wedge between China and the Muslims. West's stooges are quick to circulate such reports to please their master.

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## xuxu1457

I think this is not a good provision made by local government, even the provision only for member of Chinese Communist Party ,the employee of government and students under 18 years old, even in fact no one care about if you become a follower. 
This will bring some problems, just as "bad money drives out good", extremist religious ideology drives good one.
I think should change the "One size fits all" method made by some local government , this provision is against the <The regulations on Religious Affairs>, 
*Article 3 Citizens enjoy freedom of religious belief. No organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in any religion or citizens who do not believe in any religion. Religious citizens, non-religious citizens, and citizens who believe different religions shall respect each other.*

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## wise_owl

For ignorant non-Chinese.... please first study mainland's laws. If you don't have the time learn the below two.

*Commandment 1: - *I, the Communist Party of China (CPC) is your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.

*Commandment 2: - *Love thy nation and hate thy neighbors.

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## dlclong

xuxu1457 said:


> I think this is not a good provision made by local government, even the provision only for member of Chinese Communist Party ,the employee of government and students under 18 years old, even in fact no one care about if you become a follower.
> This will bring some problems, just as "bad money drives out good", extremist religious ideology drives good one.
> I think should change the "One size fits all" method made by some local government , this provision is against the <The regulations on Religious Affairs>,
> *Article 3 Citizens enjoy freedom of religious belief. No organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in any religion or citizens who do not believe in any religion. Religious citizens, non-religious citizens, and citizens who believe different religions shall respect each other.*


 To a certain extent, I agree. 
But in recent years, should also take into account the impact of Western forces and extremist ideology in Xinjiang.

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## -SINAN-

dlclong said:


> Chinese law, not to minors under the age of 18 spread religion because minors do not have the ability to judge the independent thinking. But this law is not strictly implemented, in my hometown, many children around the age of 10 are often go to Christian, Muslim families have many children to enter the mosque. China Given this provision, the official would not be encouraged to learn in Ramadan fasting.
> Communist Party of China have more stringent regulations, government officials, generally are not allowed to credit religion. But some minorities, but no how to perform.
> Therefore, some foreigner, I want you to understand China, and then to talk nonsense. *China has its own rules and regulations,* please foreigners, do not tell me what right or wrong



"Godless people, oppresing believers" you can use fancy words like Americans... does it change the fact ? No.



Jlaw said:


> Great news. Muslims must follow our rules. Get with the program, it's 2014.



Look at the mentality, invade Muslim lands.. then force them to obey rules.. so don't cry when shıt happens.

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## TaiShang

The ban is for CPC members:

No fast for CPC members during Ramadan - Global Times

A learned comment by senkhoe:

"China is a large country with 56 ethnic diversity. With that it comes with many languages, of dialects, customs practices, folklore, habits, religions,etc. Perhaps, India is in similar situation... ?! China former scholars, philosopher and leaders for practical application and reason to simplified one official language(Potunhua)of Chinese Mandarin,... to under scientifically refining. China also having quite a few religions. The successful conversion and adoption of one national language..to which religion is under studies and recommended to strictly and uniformly not to apply on official duty and function. In this case, it is CPC members which include the military, police and other mission critical function where religious practice or Ramadan or excuse not permitted. This is only fair as security and mission critical like terror attacks, life saving measure to national security are of paramount importance. This is what it is as any other is subject to individual interpretation or opinion".

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## dlclong

Sinan said:


> "Godless people, oppresing believers" you can use fancy words like Americans... does it change the fact ? No.
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the mentality, invade Muslim lands.. then force them to obey rules.. so don't cry when shıt happens.


Ridiculous. What you say is Constantinople ?
I am not here to discuss our own homeland with the Turks, I just want to discuss Constantinople

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## qwerrty

they ban religious preaching in schools and government offices, not ramadan. as always, western propaganda media love to blow story up..

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## -SINAN-

dlclong said:


> Ridiculous. What you say is Constantinople ?
> I am not here to discuss our own homeland with the Turks, I just want to discuss Constantinople



Constaniople, as it is Istanbul now.. conquered byTurks in 1453 some 560 years ago.
Today it's inhabited with over 12 million Turks.

I you are done with Constantinople, maybe we can compare your invasion of East Turkestan in 50 years ago... which was largely inhabited by Uyghurs.

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## TaiShang

dlclong said:


> Ridiculous. What you say is Constantinople ?
> I am not here to discuss our own homeland with the Turks, I just want to discuss Constantinople



No need to dicuss personally with a terrorist-symphatizer from a terrrorist-loving third-world hole.

*Report: Turkey Financing Top Global Terror Groups*

*Turkey has become a principal financial hub for terrorists under the leadership of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whose government has helped Iran skirt sanctions, supported jihadi groups in Syria, and provided financial backing to Hamas, according to a new report by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD).*

Turkey, a key U.S. ally, “has turned a blind eye” to terror financing and is potentially on the verge of crossing the line to becoming an official state sponsor of terrorism, according to the Friday report, which cites the Erdogan government’s close ties to some of the world’s top terror organizations and operatives.

*The report comes just a day after 84 U.S. lawmakers and former government officials urged President Barack Obama to confront Erdogan over his harsh repression of political opponents.*

As Turkey’s support for terrorism expands, the Obama administration has remained silent out of fear of offending Erdogan, whom the White House considers a strategic asset, according to the report authored by FDD’s Jonathan Schanzer, a former terrorism finance analyst at the U.S. Treasury Department.

The Obama administration “has remained on the sidelines, expressing relatively mild concern about the crackdowns on law enforcement officials and the jailing of journalists, while electing not to mention terrorism finance issues publicly,” the report states.

“Washington’s silence stems from fears of a fall-out with Turkey, which has been a crucial ally over the years, and is situated strategically at the intersection of Europe and the Middle East,” according to the report. “But Turkey’s actions constitute a direct challenge to Washington’s sanctions regime.”

The report catalogues in detail Turkey’s cozy relationship with jihadi groups, terrorist operatives, and the Iranian regime.

*Last year, “Turkey was involved in a massive sanctions-busting scheme with Tehran,” according to the report. “Now known as ‘gas-for-gold,’ the scheme helped the Iranian regime gain some $13 billion” despite international sanctions meant to stop such deals.*

Additionally, over 2,000 Iranian companies are reportedly registered in Turkey, where pro-Erdogan political elites have been accused of facilitating large cash transfers with Tehran.

Turkey’s top intelligence agency is also believed to be working with Iran in a bid to “scuttle intelligence operations” aimed at stopping Iran’s nuke program, according to the report.

*Erdogan has also gone to great lengths to bolster extremist rebel groups in Syria, according to the report, which cites “mounting evidence suggests that Turkey has been directly or indirectly arming, training, and even financing Sunni jihadi groups” in the country.*

*Turkey reportedly sent 47 tons of weapons to Syrian rebels during a six-month period in 2013, according to the report.


There are “few questions that it has been Turkish policy to provide support to a range of rebel factions,” the report states. “Turkey now appears to allow a broad spectrum of anti-Assad forces, including those with radical ideologies, to operate on Turkish territory.”*

“Jihadi personnel and finances” have been identified as flowing from Turkey to Syria.

Israeli military officials have additionally claimed that “Syrian al Qaeda groups were training in three separate bases in the Turkish provinces.”

*Erdogan has also been exposed for having a close friendship with Yasin al-Qadi, a Saudi Arabian businessman who has faced sanctions for his financial ties to al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and other terrorist fronts.*

Hamas has become another ally of the Erdogan government, which has held meetings with the terror group’s senior leadership and allows one of its key operative to work in Turkey.

*Senior Hamas leader Saleh al-Aruri has been living in Turkey, “where he has been allegedly involved in the financing and logistics of Hamas operations,” according to the report, which states that “al-Aruri may be raising funds on Turkish soil that go to support terrorism.”*

This coincides with “broader Turkish support” for Hamas, including political cover and financial backing.

The Turkish government’s growing ties to terror have come amid a corruption scandal that has rocked Erdogan’s AKP political party, which has “purged the investigators, prosecutors, and journalists involved” in exposing the corruption.

FDD’s Schanzer warned that left unchecked by the United States and the rest of the international community, “Turkey’s terrorism finance problems could fester further.”

“These problems have already raised questions about whether Turkey currently serves as a barrier to extremism from the Middle East,” Schanzer said.

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## Informant

This is only going to backfire.

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## -SINAN-

TaiShang said:


> No need to dicuss personally with a terrorist-symphatizer from a terrrorist-loving third-world hole.
> Report: Turkey Financing Top Global Terror Groups
> Turkey has become a principal financial hub for terrorists under the leadership of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, whose government has helped Iran skirt sanctions, supported jihadi groups in Syria, and provided financial backing to Hamas, according to a new report by the Foundation for Defense of Democracies (FDD).
> Turkey, a key U.S. ally, “has turned a blind eye” to terror financing and is potentially on the verge of crossing the line to becoming an official state sponsor of terrorism, according to the Friday report, which cites the Erdogan government’s close ties to some of the world’s top terror organizations and operatives.
> The report comes just a day after 84 U.S. lawmakers and former government officials urged President Barack Obama to confront Erdogan over his harsh repression of political opponents.
> As Turkey’s support for terrorism expands, the Obama administration has remained silent out of fear of offending Erdogan, whom the White House considers a strategic asset, according to the report authored by FDD’s Jonathan Schanzer, a former terrorism finance analyst at the U.S. Treasury Department.
> The Obama administration “has remained on the sidelines, expressing relatively mild concern about the crackdowns on law enforcement officials and the jailing of journalists, while electing not to mention terrorism finance issues publicly,” the report states.
> “Washington’s silence stems from fears of a fall-out with Turkey, which has been a crucial ally over the years, and is situated strategically at the intersection of Europe and the Middle East,” according to the report. “But Turkey’s actions constitute a direct challenge to Washington’s sanctions regime.”
> The report catalogues in detail Turkey’s cozy relationship with jihadi groups, terrorist operatives, and the Iranian regime.
> Last year, “Turkey was involved in a massive sanctions-busting scheme with Tehran,” according to the report. “Now known as ‘gas-for-gold,’ the scheme helped the Iranian regime gain some $13 billion” despite international sanctions meant to stop such deals.
> Additionally, over 2,000 Iranian companies are reportedly registered in Turkey, where pro-Erdogan political elites have been accused of facilitating large cash transfers with Tehran.
> Turkey’s top intelligence agency is also believed to be working with Iran in a bid to “scuttle intelligence operations” aimed at stopping Iran’s nuke program, according to the report.
> Erdogan has also gone to great lengths to bolster extremist rebel groups in Syria, according to the report, which cites “mounting evidence suggests that Turkey has been directly or indirectly arming, training, and even financing Sunni jihadi groups” in the country.
> Turkey reportedly sent 47 tons of weapons to Syrian rebels during a six-month period in 2013, according to the report.
> There are “few questions that it has been Turkish policy to provide support to a range of rebel factions,” the report states. “Turkey now appears to allow a broad spectrum of anti-Assad forces, including those with radical ideologies, to operate on Turkish territory.”
> “Jihadi personnel and finances” have been identified as flowing from Turkey to Syria.
> Israeli military officials have additionally claimed that “Syrian al Qaeda groups were training in three separate bases in the Turkish provinces.”
> Erdogan has also been exposed for having a close friendship with Yasin al-Qadi, a Saudi Arabian businessman who has faced sanctions for his financial ties to al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, and other terrorist fronts.
> Hamas has become another ally of the Erdogan government, which has held meetings with the terror group’s senior leadership and allows one of its key operative to work in Turkey.
> Senior Hamas leader Saleh al-Aruri has been living in Turkey, “where he has been allegedly involved in the financing and logistics of Hamas operations,” according to the report, which states that “al-Aruri may be raising funds on Turkish soil that go to support terrorism.”
> This coincides with “broader Turkish support” for Hamas, including political cover and financial backing.
> The Turkish government’s growing ties to terror have come amid a corruption scandal that has rocked Erdogan’s AKP political party, which has “purged the investigators, prosecutors, and journalists involved” in exposing the corruption.
> FDD’s Schanzer warned that left unchecked by the United States and the rest of the international community, “Turkey’s terrorism finance problems could fester further.”
> “These problems have already raised questions about whether Turkey currently serves as a barrier to extremism from the Middle East,” Schanzer said.



Bs. article as always... no source, no evidence just words. Most possibly Jewish media.

@TaiShang search and find as many as article you can find.... and open a thread with them...

All of it will be lies. no evidence, no source.... just BS news... lies and slanders nothing more. Turkey's power is increasing... we are jeopardizing others interests, so they use the media. Just like how they used the media to legalize the invasion of Iraq... But it's not going to work on us.


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## dlclong

Sinan said:


> Constaniople, as it is Istanbul now.. conquered byTurks in 1453 some 560 years ago.
> Today it's inhabited with over 12 million Turks.
> 
> I you are done with Constantinople, maybe we can compare your invasion of East Turkestan in 50 years ago... which was largely inhabited by Uyghurs.


"Invasion of East Turkestan in 50 years ago"
Ridiculous, so-called East Turkestan, where? The so-called East Turkestan rebellion in November 1933 established the puppet government, in January 1934, the KMT Hui Muslim 马仲英Ma Zhongying eliminated. The mere existence of two months.

Xinjiang, Han Dynasty ruled by the central government,named西域都护府.
Until the Tang Dynasty, The ninth century AD，Tang Dynasty collapse, the end of Han people rule in Xinjiang time,
During this period, there have been intermittent and again rule.
Ming Dynasty ruled only a small part,


Qing dynasty, the Manchu-led troops defeated Junger Mongolia, Xinjiang, a significant reduction in the Mongols, Uighurs in Xinjiang talent to become the major ethnic groups。
China's central government has once again become the territory, Perhaps you will say Qing Dynasty was Manchu , but today over 99% of Manchu people agree China，They are Chinese identity.
In 1911, the Qing emperor to abdicate, the Republic of China was founded, Xinjiang, like other Provence
, as controlled by local warlords,盛世才 Sheng shicai, the long rule of Xinjiang, in the meantime, the so-called East Turkestan, there are just two months。
You Ottoman Turks, how long occupied Constantinople ? Do not think that the earth is u “big Turks”.

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## -SINAN-

dlclong said:


> Invasion of East Turkestan in 50 years ago"
> Ridiculous, so-called East Turkestan, where? The so-called East Turkestan rebellion in November 1933 established the puppet government, in January 1934, the KMT Hui Muslim Zhongying eliminated. The mere existence of two months.
> Xinjiang, Han Dynasty ruled by the central government,named西域都护府.
> Until the Tang Dynasty, The ninth century AD，Tang Dynasty collapse, the end of Han people rule in Xinjiang time,
> During this period, there have been intermittent and again rule.
> Ming Dynasty ruled only a small part,
> Qing dynasty, the Manchu-led troops defeated Junger Mongolia, Xinjiang, a significant reduction in the Mongols, Uighurs in Xinjiang talent to become the major ethnic groups。
> China's central government has once again become the territory, Perhaps you will say Manchu Qing Dynasty was established,, but today over 99% of Manchu people agree China，They are Chinese identity.
> In 1911, the Qing emperor to abdicate, the Republic of China was founded, Xinjiang, like other Provence
> , as controlled by local warlords,盛世才 Sheng shicai, the long rule of Xinjiang, in the meantime, the so-called East Turkestan, there are just two months。



I will research this subject more, then i will come and discuss with you.


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## itaskol

Sinan said:


> I will research this subject more, then i will come and discuss with you.


the east turkeystan were created under the help of soviet union.
it was a failed rebellion


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## Edison Chen

Zhang Chunxian, party chief of Xinjiang, at a meeting in Beijing. Photo: Simon Song

Xinjiang party chief Zhang Chunxian has vowed to use an iron fist to stop terrorists, while also pledging to use an education campaign to engage ethnic Uygurs more effectively.

Zhang vowed to respond to violence "firmly' and "precisely" during a visit to a military outpost in Urumqi with armed forces commander Wang Jianping yesterday, according to local news portal Tianshan.net.

In the meeting, Zhang said the paramilitary police played an essential role in the long-term stability of the region.

Xinjiang has become the front line in Beijing's national anti-terrorism crackdown, with the central government blaming the recent spate of violence around the country, including bombings and knife attacks, on separatists seeking to establish an independent Islamic state.

However, human rights groups and the mainly Muslim Uygurs say Beijing's hardline stance against religious practices and human rights violations in Xinjiang are only driving more people to extremism.

Several Uygur academics last week expressed support for the anti-terror campaign, saying militants sowing dissent and attacking innocents did not represent the majority's views.

President Xi Jinping, while urging tough punishment for terrorists, called for a campaign to better engage and integrate Uygurs in the region during a visit in April.

He encouraged the minority group to learn both their mother tongue and Chinese, and called for more development and jobs.

Earlier this week, government websites in Xinjiang issued notices that officials, civil servants and students were banned from participating in Ramadan, a holy month of fasting for Muslims.

The Turpan city website warned "civil servants and students cannot participate in fasting and other religious activities".

The Xinjiang Tarim River Basin Management Bureau posted photos of Muslim cadres at a meal to celebrate the anniversary of China's Communist Party on a date coinciding with Ramadan.

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## TaiShang

Trouble makers will be tamed or severely punished, which will relieve the region from a backward culture of religious and ethnic fanaticism, and offer greater opportunities for the peace-loving majority of the citizens of Xinjiang.

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## TaiShang

Educating some members from Turkey on China's Xinjiang is a tall task, if not impossible. 

By the way, if they really had a solution to China's terrorism problem, they would first apply it to their own disintegrating foreign policy and declining regional status: LOL

*How not to win friends: Turkey’s foreign policy falls apart*



> Ankara likes to present many of its neighbors, including even Iran, as friends “despite few differences in opinion” but Turkish diplomats start accepting that ambitious Turkish foreign policy has largely backfired. Turkey is not talking to Damascus, Baghdad and Cairo, is having troubled relationships with Lebanon and Iran, and has failed to restore diplomatic ties with Israel and Armenia. Meanwhile, there is still long way to go to establish healthy relationships with Greece, Russia and the European Union at some point.

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## -SINAN-

TaiShang said:


> Educating some members from Turkey on China's Xinjiang is a tall task, if not impossible.
> 
> By the way, if they really had a solution to China's terrorism problem, they would first apply it to their own disintegrating foreign policy and declining regional status: LOL
> 
> *How not to win friends: Turkey’s foreign policy falls apart*



My pathetic Chinese friend... you are doing the same thing Atatwolf does... go on post BS articles... like it or not. We are the top dog in the region.

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## third eye

Farooq said:


> *As a Pakistani, *I have great respect for my Chinese friends, but this is shocking and disappointing- China restricts Ramazan fasting in Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM



Though off topic but just out of curiosity.

Both your flags - Country of origin and country of locations are N Korea.

Does North Korea also have citizens of Pakistani origin ?

@Aeronaut, @Web Master

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## B+ Dracula

Need to differentiate b/t GOOD LAWS vs BAD LAWS
*A GOOD LAW:*
addresses a need; is readily understood in purpose and in operation;conforms to our principles;enjoys overwhelming support; affects and protects everyone; and reflects what is best about us — not what is worst
*BAD LAWS: *
are the laws that goes against NORMS of Society & banning them results in Abuse of Law, and that abuse of law makes them Bad Laws, Culture / religion/ traditions evolve in thousands of years, so banning them instantaneously by one order are example of Bad Laws.

for example, 
- KITE FESTIVAL & 
- FORMULA ONE RACING & 
- Spanish Bull Racing in Streets *Cost life, *doesn't mean to Ban them by legislation


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## LeveragedBuyout

Edison Chen said:


> Zhang Chunxian, party chief of Xinjiang, at a meeting in Beijing. Photo: Simon Song
> 
> Xinjiang party chief Zhang Chunxian has vowed to use an iron fist to stop terrorists, while also pledging to use an education campaign to engage ethnic Uygurs more effectively.
> 
> Zhang vowed to respond to violence "firmly' and "precisely" during a visit to a military outpost in Urumqi with armed forces commander Wang Jianping yesterday, according to local news portal Tianshan.net.
> 
> In the meeting, Zhang said the paramilitary police played an essential role in the long-term stability of the region.
> 
> Xinjiang has become the front line in Beijing's national anti-terrorism crackdown, with the central government blaming the recent spate of violence around the country, including bombings and knife attacks, on separatists seeking to establish an independent Islamic state.
> 
> However, human rights groups and the mainly Muslim Uygurs say Beijing's hardline stance against religious practices and human rights violations in Xinjiang are only driving more people to extremism.
> 
> Several Uygur academics last week expressed support for the anti-terror campaign, saying militants sowing dissent and attacking innocents did not represent the majority's views.
> 
> President Xi Jinping, while urging tough punishment for terrorists, called for a campaign to better engage and integrate Uygurs in the region during a visit in April.
> 
> He encouraged the minority group to learn both their mother tongue and Chinese, and called for more development and jobs.
> 
> Earlier this week, government websites in Xinjiang issued notices that officials, civil servants and students were banned from participating in Ramadan, a holy month of fasting for Muslims.
> 
> The Turpan city website warned "civil servants and students cannot participate in fasting and other religious activities".
> 
> The Xinjiang Tarim River Basin Management Bureau posted photos of Muslim cadres at a meal to celebrate the anniversary of China's Communist Party on a date coinciding with Ramadan.



Terrorists only understand the language of force.

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## TaiShang

When China says it, means it.
***

*Xinjiang to build cities from scratch in restive regions*

*Global Times*

*





Urbanization vs. terror
*
After hours of driving along the highway from Korla to Luntai in the Bayingol Mongolian Autonomous Prefecture, located in southern Xinjiang, *rows of modern apartments gleaming with white paint suddenly appear to break up the monotonous landscape in the Gobi Desert.*

They are the residences of the 29th regiment of the *Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps* (XPCC), which has 14 divisions and 175 regiments across the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. *According to the central government's blueprint, each of the divisions is capable of building a city and each of the regiments can build a township. *

*After decades of efforts to reclaim the wasteland and develop the economy, the XPCC has turned its focus to southern Xinjiang*, an area mainly inhabited by ethnic Uyghur people, that has been frequently attacked by terrorists.
*




The city of Tiemenguan, built by the XPCC in 2012. Photo: Courtesy of the XPCC

Going south*

*"The XPCC's development focus is building cities and gathering people together in the new era. The priority is building more cities and townships in southern Xinjiang as a means to maintain social stability and boost local development,"* Xu Weihua, the deputy political commissar of the XPCC, told the Global Times in an exclusive interview in Urumqi.

Southern Xinjiang's development lags behind northern Xinjiang by at least 10 years, according to estimates by some scholars. The "urbanization rate" (the proportion of people living in the urban area) of Kashi (also known as Kashgar), Hotan and the Kizilsu Kyrgyz Autonomous Prefecture stood at less than 30 percent by the end of 2012. Most locals are farmers and herdsmen working in the agriculture sector.

*The XPCC has so far established seven cities, with three of them, Alar, Tumshuq and Tiemenguan, located in southern Xinjiang. Alar, Tumshuq were built in 2004, and Tiemenguan was built in 2012.*

According to Xu, the 14th division of the XPCC plans to build a new city in Hotan, and pick up a batch of well-developed regiment farms or those with strategic significance, to build townships and further develop them into cities when conditions are mature.

More than 80 percent of the population in southern Xinjiang comes from ethnic minority groups. "Building cities and townships there is an urgent task and our priority, as the XPCC can use its economic and cultural advantages to help local people enjoy a modern and civilized social life," he said.

*The XPCC has been pouring money into improving the livelihoods of ethnic minority groups. This year it plans to invest 543 million yuan ($87.42 million) to support the development of 19 regiment farms, with more than 30 percent of the workers at these farms coming from ethnic minority groups.*

*The efforts included helping local women in Hotan's Pishan farm develop a hand knitting business, and financing local youth to start their own businesses. Pishan is the hometown of the five suspects in the bombing of an Urumqi street market in May 22, which left 39 people dead and 94 injured.*

"The establishment of cities and townships will also enhance the 'lifeblood function' of the XPCC, and reduce the central government's burden of fiscal transfer payments to the corps," Xu said. 

*The XPCC is China's only special social organization that has its own administrative and judicial bodies as well as armed police and militia groups*. But it has no authority to collect taxes, so industrial and service enterprises affiliated with the XPCC need to pay taxes to local governments. In 2007, the Xinjiang regional government decided to refund some of the tax revenues generated by the XPCC's industrial firms to the XPCC, but some local officials said the policy has not been well implemented.

"A lack of tax revenues has limited the XPCC's development momentum. By setting up cities or townships, they could have the authority to collect taxes and achieve faster development," Pan Xingang, the head of the Institute of Economic Research with the XPCC, told the Global Times. 

Aside from Shuanghe, which was established in April 2014, the other six XPCC cities generated 41 percent of the XPCC's total GDP in 2013. 

*Local residents in some newly established cities have also enjoyed double-digit income growth. For instance, the per capita income of urban residents and farmers in southern Xinjiang's Tiemenguan were 23,676 yuan and 16,206 yuan in 2013, higher than Xinjiang's average level of 19,874 yuan and 7,296 yuan during the same period. 





Cities under the administration of XPCC

New role *

The XPCC's role has always been highlighted when Xinjiang's social stability is under threat. It was established in 1954, repeating China's historical experience of stationing troops to reclaim the wasteland and guard frontiers in Xinjiang, a practice that can be traced back to the Western Han Dynasty (206BC-AD25).

*During its early days, the XPCC built water conservancy works and reclaimed wasteland along the borders and edges of the Tianshan Mountain and the Taklimakan Desert. It also gradually formed a modern industrial system.*

"The XPCC has laid a solid foundation for Xinjiang's economic development in its early stages," Pan said. 

In Shihezi's Museum of Army Reclamation, many visitors are attracted by a worn-out winter coat with 296 colorful patches. This principal collection of the museum, together with trowels, human-hauled ploughs and stone mills, tells a story of how the oldest generation of the XPCC made efforts to build the city from almost nothing on the Gobi desert. 

The XPCC was dissolved in 1975 amid the Cultural Revolution (1966-76), and top policymakers decided to revive it in 1981 after separatist activists tried to undermine social stability in Xinjiang. The XPCC, as Deng Xiaoping put it, is "the core of stabilizing Xinjiang."

During President Xi Jinping's inspection tour in Xinjiang late April, he also visited the XPCC and called to strengthen its role due to the new conditions. *"More efforts are needed to build the XPCC into a stabilizer of the country's border areas, a melting pot that integrates various ethnic groups and a model region that showcases advanced productivity and culture," Xi said.*

Nowadays the XPCC's contribution to Xinjiang's economic development is not as much as it was 60 years ago. It accounted for 17.4 percent of Xinjiang's GDP in 2013, compared to contributing one-third of the region's agricultural and industrial output in the 1960s. 

"Pursuing economic growth should not be the XPCC's major task," Wang Dahao, an Urumqi-based writer and observer of Xinjiang issues, told the Global Times. "After years of creating material wealth for the local people, the XPCC should play an increasing role in delivering spiritual wealth."

*As southern Xinjiang is mostly Uyghur, building cities there could aid the XPCC in promoting modern culture, said Wang. "But to achieve this goal, the XPCC also needs to bring in more minority people and increase the proportion of ethnic minority people in its total population," he added. *

Developing southern Xinjiang has also been put on top of the agenda of the central government in the wake of a series of bloody terror attacks.

*Measures such as creating jobs and improving education are seen as fundamental solutions to addressing the threat of terrorism. The central government has decided to roll out free high school education in southern Xinjiang. Shenzhen has also donated 1 billion yuan for the establishment of Kashgar University, the first comprehensive university in southern Xinjiang. New textile factories and steel mills are under construction in Kashi's special economic zone. *

"Education is not confined to schools or universities, it's also in factories," said Pan. "By creating more jobs and attracting Uyghur youth to work in factories, the organizational culture could affect the way they interact with other groups and gradually change their behavior."
*




Holes dug in the earth used to accommodate the builders in the early years of the XPCC. Photo: Courtesy of the XPCC

Obstacles and misunderstandings*

The XPCC built its first city Shihezi in 1976, and three more cities were built in 2004. Its fifth city, Beitun, was finally launched in 2011 even though the central government approved its establishment in 1997. 

"To build a city or township, the XPCC needs to negotiate with the local government on the redistribution of resources, so it takes time," Pan said. 

Realizing the XPCC's urbanization blueprint will not be an easy task. Given the XPCC's role of consolidating border defense and "not competing for benefits with the local people," most of its regiment farms are located along border areas or on the verge of the deserts, adding to the difficulty of its urbanization process, according to Wang. 

The first central work conference of Xinjiang, held in 2010, served as a boost to the XPCC's urbanization drive. "Thanks to the increasing support from the central and regional governments, the pace at which the XPCC is building new cities has been speeding up since that meeting," Xu said. 

A direct reflection was in the XPCC's urbanization rate, which rose by 12 percentage points to 62 percent in 2013 from 2010, higher than the national level of 53.7 percent and the Xinjiang level of 44.5 percent.

According to the XPCC's urbanization development plan for 2012-20, the XPCC aims to build one to two cities in 2014, and achieve the goal of ensuring all of its 14 divisions have built a city within the next three to five years. 

"But urbanization is not just about building houses," Xu said. "We need to improve urban infrastructure and facilities, and develop the services industry to attract people and retain them." 

In the 1950s and 1960s, many young college students came to the XPCC echoing the nation's call, and the salaries in the XPCC were also higher than they were in other provinces at that time. But with rapid development of other provinces and more violence erupting in Xinjiang, the XPCC has been faced with a talent drain in recent years, Tang Lijiu, head of Xinjiang Westeast Economic Research Institute, told the Global Times. 

"The XPCC will make efforts to attract local talents, college graduates from other provinces, and retain the third generation of the XPCC," Xu noted. 

*There are also some misunderstandings about the XPCC when it aims to attract private investment, as many people associate the XPCC with the military, due to its literal meaning in Chinese.

When the XPCC launched an event in Hong Kong to attract local investment in May 2013, which was also the first such event outside the Chinese mainland since its establishment, there were some suspicions from local media about its purpose. 

"But when we explained to them what we are, the misunderstanding was eliminated," Xu said. As a result, 33 projects totaling HK$108.2 billion were signed during the event.*

"The economic development of the XPCC is not making ourselves live well, but is helping more local people live a better life and maintain social stability," he added. 

*New towns out of nowhere *

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## steelseries779

TaiShang said:


> "The XPCC's development focus is building cities and gathering people together in the new era. The priority is building more cities and townships in southern Xinjiang as a means to maintain social stability and boost local development,"





TaiShang said:


> The XPCC has so far established seven cities, with three of them, Alar, Tumshuq and Tiemenguan, located in southern Xinjiang. Alar, Tumshuq were built in 2004, and Tiemenguan was built in 2012.





TaiShang said:


> The efforts included helping local women in Hotan's Pishan farm develop a hand knitting business, and financing local youth to start their own businesses. Pishan is the hometown of the five suspects in the bombing of an Urumqi street market in May 22, which left 39 people dead and 94 injured.



I almost forget XPCC, such an important role in Xinjiang. If XPCC feed uyghur well, there will be less violent and terror attack happening. Those people don't know how to build and manage a city, let's XPCC help them.

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## kalu_miah

@TaiShang Excellent move, in these new cities, give them education so they can become productive and then give them jobs so they can take part in production and earn a decent living, terrorism will be history in a few years.

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## Edison Chen

CCP is full of wisdom. I believe XPCC, accompanied with autonomous region policy in Xinjiang is the best solution ever.

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## TaiShang

kalu_miah said:


> Excellent move, in these new cities, give them education so they can become productive and then give them jobs so they can take part in production and earn a decent living, terrorism will be history in a few years.



I agree. I think extremism breeds in economic destitude. The best policy is probably drying up the swamp that produces mosquitos rather than using all effort to kill the mosquitos while leaving the swamp unattended. The swamp, seems to be poverty. There will be people, still, that will move out of pure radical fanaticism, but, economic development and greater connection with the rest of the country will shrink the recruitment base for the fanatical ring leaders.

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## Lux de Veritas

TaiShang said:


> I agree. I think extremism breeds in economic destitude. The best policy is probably drying up the swamp that produces mosquitos rather than using all effort to kill the mosquitos while leaving the swamp unattended. The swamp, seems to be poverty. There will be people, still, that will move out of pure radical fanaticism, but, economic development and greater connection with the rest of the country will shrink the recruitment base for the fanatical ring leaders.



明代云南改土归流时也闹得厉害。现在云南少数民族不少，没听过闹独立。明清时代内地伊斯兰也不老实，现在可本分多了。民族融合需要些时间。


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## kalu_miah

TaiShang said:


> I agree. I think extremism breeds in economic destitude. The best policy is probably drying up the swamp that produces mosquitos rather than using all effort to kill the mosquitos while leaving the swamp unattended. The swamp, seems to be poverty. There will be people, still, that will move out of pure radical fanaticism, but, economic development and greater connection with the rest of the country will shrink the recruitment base for the fanatical ring leaders.



You are getting it my friend, that is exactly it. Education and jobs will remove the swamp.

As for the minuscule percentage extremists that somehow get brainwashed by deviant ideology, you will need a Chinese version of GFC for Muslims within China, and if this is good enough, it might be possible to promote it globally to combat petrodollar funded deviant ideology that is at the root of extremism. You have to fight ideology with a better more sound ideology. Only a better belief system based on tradition can replace deviant belief system that has no basis in history in the first place:
How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)

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## Kompromat

This is a positive development.


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## sahaliyan

Shihezi,the first XPCC city
Shihezi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## TaiShang

kalu_miah said:


> You are getting it my friend, that is exactly it. Education and jobs will remove the swamp.
> 
> As for the minuscule percentage extremists that somehow get brainwashed by deviant ideology, you will need a Chinese version of GFC for Muslims within China, and if this is good enough, it might be possible to promote it globally to combat petrodollar funded deviant ideology that is at the root of extremism. You have to fight ideology with a better more sound ideology. Only a better belief system based on tradition can replace deviant belief system that has no basis in history in the first place:
> How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)



Another way of reducing reducing extremism would be to connect the Xinjiang Muslims more strongly with the Muslims of East Asia through track II initiatives. As I see it, East Asian Islam (at least the portion not tainted buy Saudi/Gulf radicalism) is more open, tolerant, liberationist, secular and optimistic than the orthodox Arab Islam. Hence, building bridges between Xinjinag and, say, East Asian sufism would open up the region for much less violent and less politicized versions of Islam.

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## Jaanbaz

Are they going to flood the cities with Hans or are the cities for the natives?


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## kalu_miah

TaiShang said:


> Another way of reducing reducing extremism would be to connect the Xinjiang Muslims more strongly with the Muslims of East Asia through track II initiatives. As I see it, East Asian Islam (at least the portion not tainted buy Saudi/Gulf radicalism) is more open, tolerant, liberationist, secular and optimistic than the orthodox Arab Islam. Hence, building bridges between Xinjinag and, say, East Asian sufism would open up the region for much less violent and less politicized versions of Islam.



Sufism is most prevalent with Hanafi Madhab (schools of law):
Madhhab - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hanafi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





From early days of Islam, sufism was influential with most Madhabs of both Shia and Sunni kind, except for some variant of Hanbali, dark green, which is found mainly in one country. These intolerant variants were being spread using petrodollars to poor and disorganized Muslim areas for the last 4 decades. This process has to be reversed.

The trick is to recreate and spread an enlightened Madhab under Chinese supervision, that is free from intolerance and based on the old Hanafi version, which was the original Madhab for Xinjiang, other parts of China, South Asia, Central Asia, Levant, Egypt and Turkey.

A good place to start this work:
Islamic Association of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Edison Chen

Jaanbaz said:


> Are they going to flood the cities with Hans or are the cities for the natives?



So Hans are not natives? Of course equal rights to get occupied in the new cities.

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## sahaliyan

TaiShang said:


> Another way of reducing reducing extremism would be to connect the Xinjiang Muslims more strongly with the Muslims of East Asia through track II initiatives. As I see it, East Asian Islam (at least the portion not tainted buy Saudi/Gulf radicalism) is more open, tolerant, liberationist, secular and optimistic than the orthodox Arab Islam. Hence, building bridges between Xinjinag and, say, East Asian sufism would open up the region for much less violent and less politicized versions of Islam.


In the history,nearly all the Uyghurs follow Sufism,some Hui sufi menhuans also came from Uyghurs such as the Beizhuang menhuan.There are reasons the Sufism replaced by Wahabiyya.If you look at the history of Huis,the different menhuans fight against each other,kill each other,the descendants of sufi leaders are just like Feudal lords over their believers
Look at the history of Uyghurs,what the Khojas(the sufi leaders) brought to the Uyghurs?Comnpare the Chagatai period and Khoja period,you will find how backward the Khoja period is

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## xunzi

Jaanbaz said:


> Are they going to flood the cities with Hans or are the cities for the natives?


It is our country territory, none of your business.

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## Android

One thing I love about China is that if they aim for something than they make it happen and don't tolerate any BS.

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## StarCraft_ZT

wow, we are constructing almost 3 cities at the same time. Huge investment!

听说奎屯很漂亮，公路两边是灌渠，灌渠里的水引自天山的雪水。

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## Jaanbaz

xunzi said:


> It is our country territory, none of your business.



Well its posted on PDF so I asked a honest question. Obviously I don't care what China does in its territory but then don't complain why the Uighurs feel like their culture and their identity is being slowly eroded by the State.


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## xunzi

Jaanbaz said:


> Well its posted on PDF so I asked a honest question. Obviously I don't care what China does in its territory but then don't complain why the Uighurs feel like their culture and their identity is being slowly eroded by the State.


If the Uighurs don't like what we do, they can go back to where they belong which is their inherent ancestor country called "Turkey".



Android said:


> One thing I love about China is that if they aim for something than they make it happen and don't tolerate any BS.


That is part of our DNA, friend.

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## Jaanbaz

xunzi said:


> If the Uighurs don't like what we do, they can go back to where they belong which is their inherent ancestor country called "Turkey".
> 
> 
> That is part of our DNA, friend.



Uighurs have lived their for ever, in fact Uighurs are a mixture of native Indo-European and Turkic people.


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## sahaliyan

Jaanbaz said:


> Uighurs have lived their for ever, in fact Uighurs are a mixture of native Indo-European and Turkic people.


I agree the Uygurs are natives of southern Xinjiang,but both the Uyghurs and Hans are new comers of northern Xinjiang,where the majority Hans live in
And

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## Jaanbaz

sahaliyan said:


> I agree the Uygurs are natives of southern Xinjiang,but both the Uyghurs and Hans are new comers of northern Xinjiang,where the majority Hans live in
> And



Lets see how China will deal with the current situation. But by banning Fasting etc is not going to help but further alienate the Uighur people.


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## sahaliyan

Jaanbaz said:


> Lets see how China will deal with the current situation. But by banning Fasting etc is not going to help but further alienate the Uighur people.


I do think the decision to ban fasting is wrong,however this ban is not to ordinary people,but the CCP members,if you are not CCP member,you can do what you want to do

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## xunzi

Jaanbaz said:


> Uighurs have lived their for ever, in fact Uighurs are a mixture of native Indo-European and Turkic people.


I wouldn't say forever. They live there for a couple hundred years. They are like the gypsy of Europe. I think the equivalent is quite staggering similar. Like I said, resist to change will only lead to unhappiness. When the vast majorities want something, you go with the flow of the mass.

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## -SINAN-

Jaanbaz said:


> Uighurs have lived their for ever, in fact Uighurs are a mixture of native Indo-European and Turkic people.



I would prefer them to live in Turkey instead of under Chinese rule....but we don't tolerate Jihadist crap in our country, so the radicals can stay in China.


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## sahaliyan

Jaanbaz said:


> Lets see how China will deal with the current situation. But by banning Fasting etc is not going to help but further alienate the Uighur people.


You don't see the bigger imagine,with the economy devepolement and the increase communicate of China and central asian states,the Uyghurs can benifit from this,and I think Urumqi can become the center of central Asia(both Almaty,Tashkent and Samarkand can't compete with Urumqi in the future).Because of their turkic background,the Uyghurs can play an important role in this communication.I even can imagine the Uyghur culture to influence the central asian culture.so I think not only their culture is not in danger,but also their culture has a greater influence than today

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## TaiShang

Jaanbaz said:


> Are they going to flood the cities with Hans or are the cities for the natives?



Chinese, regardless of their background, will have the right to flood wherever they want. No part of the country is reserved for some exclusive religious club members. China is a nation-state, not a Waziristan tribal quarter.

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## dlclong

Jaanbaz said:


> Uighurs have lived their for ever, in fact Uighurs are a mixture of native Indo-European and Turkic people.


Uighurs in Xinjiang's traditional territory is the southern Xinjiang, Kashgar, Hotan, Aksu（Today, 90% of the terrorists also from these three places）, these three places. Until today, the South is still the Uighur absolute subject.
Early Qing Dynasty, Xinjiang, most of the territory belonging to Junger, Qing eliminated Junger Mongolia,
After the ruling Chinese Communist Party, renamed Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, which is the adjustments made copying the Soviet Communist Party National Policy. In fact, unreasonable. Southern Xinjiang is Uighur real territory.
The capital of Xinjiang, the original is迪化（Dihua）， the Communist Party changed it to a Mongolia name---Urumqi乌鲁木齐.

Today, Han Chinese or other democratic , did not like the Turks, make the Constantinople became Istanbul, Kashgar,is still Kashi.


In addition, the looks on Uighur is Mongoloid and Indo-European mixed race. East of Turpan Uighur looks tend Mongoloid, southern Kashgar, Hotan, some Uighur ethnic like Afghanistani and other Central Asian Indo-European people. Northern Xinjiang, isTwo kinds of looks mixed.

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## Lux de Veritas

Chinese Uyghurs defy Ramadan ban - Features - Al Jazeera English

The government's attempt to clamp down on religious expression has backfired among Uyghurs.

Kashgar, China - Chinese authorities have imposed restrictions on Uyghur Muslims during the month of Ramadan, banning government employees and school children from fasting, in what rights groups say has become an annual attempt at systematically erasing the region's Islamic identity.

Chinese authorities have justified the ban on fasting by saying it is meant to protect the health of students, and restrictions on religious practices by government officials are meant to ensure the state does not support any particular faith.

Yet in Kashgar, in Xinjiang province, China's westernmost city, close to the border with Tajikstan and Kyrgyztan, Uyghur Muslims say the restrictions have backfired. Not only have locals become more observant of Islamic practices, but many have found ways to flaunt Chinese laws restricting everything from who may attend the mosque, to which copies of the Quran are read.

The most experience Chinese tribe in handling Islamofascism and in telling Muslims how to do good is Singaporean Chinese. And Singaporean Chinese faces Malay who is the worst wet dreamer in the world with a lot of intention to murder. Below is how much Malaysian Malay want to murder people.

We are surrounded by 250 millions Muslims within and without and we not only survive, we showed the world how to handle Muslims. We live in harmony. PRC has only 6 million Uyghurs.


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## BJP*

Chinese should not be defensive over their decision. They should look into the eyes of the world and say they have taken this decision in national interest. After all religion can not be above nation/country/society. Obviously west would cry foul as they need a way to criticize China. This decision should be inspirational at least for Indian politicians. Its very unfortunate that these shameless creatures are not capable of take bold steps, they are busy in pleasing one community for vote bank politics even if it costs country..

Kudos to china!!!


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## अखण्ड भारत!!!

BJP* said:


> Chinese should not be defensive over their decision. They should look into the eyes of the world and say they have taken this decision in national interest. After all religion can not be above nation/country/society. Obviously west would cry foul as they need a way to criticize China. This decision should be inspirational at least for Indian politicians. Its very unfortunate that these shameless creatures are not capable of take bold steps, they are busy in pleasing one community for vote bank politics even if it costs country..
> 
> Kudos to china!!!


Would you say the same if it was happening in tibet

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## BJP*

अखण्ड भारत!!! said:


> Would you say the same if it was happening in tibet



I say china should give preference to the nation rather than religion, whether it is tibet or not

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## dlclong

The most experience Chinese tribe in handling Islamofascism and in telling Muslims how to do good is Singaporean Chinese. And Singaporean Chinese faces Malay who is the worst wet dreamer in the world with a lot of intention to murder. Below is how much Malaysian Malay want to murder people.

We are surrounded by 250 millions Muslims within and without and we not only survive, we showed the world how to handle Muslims. We live in harmony. PRC has only 6 million Uyghurs. 




[/quote]

As a Singaporean, you do not understand China
About Uighur population, you are wrong, not the 600 million Uighurs, Uighurs is China's second fastest growing nation (the first is Muslim Dongxiang 22%), most minorities are not restricted to family planning in China,They are not one-child policy implications。
2000 in the fifth national census Uygur have *839.94 million *，in 2010, the sixth census Uighur *1,006.93 million,* ten years a growth rate of 20 %. In southern Xinjiang（Uighur traditional territories）, a family with 7-8 kids normal. Xinjiang 's once the richest woman Rebiya Kadeer, now in the United States as an anti-Chinese Uighur leader, she gave birth to 11 children in China.


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## Lux de Veritas

dlclong said:


> The most experience Chinese tribe in handling Islamofascism and in telling Muslims how to do good is Singaporean Chinese. And Singaporean Chinese faces Malay who is the worst wet dreamer in the world with a lot of intention to murder. Below is how much Malaysian Malay want to murder people.
> 
> We are surrounded by 250 millions Muslims within and without and we not only survive, we showed the world how to handle Muslims. We live in harmony. PRC has only 6 million Uyghurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a Singaporean, you do not understand China
> About Uighur population, you are wrong, not the 600 million Uighurs, Uighurs is China's second fastest growing nation (the first is Muslim Dongxiang 22%), most minorities are not restricted to family planning in China,They are not one-child policy implications。
> 2000 in the fifth national census Uygur have *839.94 million *，in 2010, the sixth census Uighur *1,006.93 million,* ten years a growth rate of 20 %. In southern Xinjiang（Uighur traditional territories）, a family with 7-8 kids normal. Xinjiang 's once the richest woman Rebiya Kadeer, now in the United States as an anti-Chinese Uighur leader, she gave birth to 11 children in China.




Got the statistic mix up. 10 million Uyghur. Its a small number.


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## -SINAN-

dlclong said:


> Uighurs in Xinjiang's traditional territory is the southern Xinjiang, Kashgar, Hotan, *Aksu*



Holy Shıt........................................

Can you summarize..

What is 

*Xinjiang*

*Urumçi *

*AKSU
*
I mean are those are region , or city or town ??? Can you or anybody please decribe.

@jkroo @TaiShang @StarCraft_ZT @xunzi


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## StarCraft_ZT

@Sinan

Xinjiang is the province.* Urumçi* is capital city in Xinjiang, it is in North Xinjiang where most people are Han, Aksu and Hotan are both cities in South Xinjiang where most people are Uyghurs






This is Aksu

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## sahaliyan

The Urumqi was a city built in Qing dynasty by Qianlong Emperor(also known as Emperor Gaozong)

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## -SINAN-

StarCraft_ZT said:


> @Sinan
> 
> Xinjiang is the province.* Urumçi* is capital city in Xinjiang, it is in North Xinjiang where most people are Han, Aksu and Hotan are both cities in South Xinjiang where most people are Uyghurs
> 
> View attachment 37650
> 
> 
> This is Aksu
> 
> View attachment 37651



Aksu means "White Water" in Turkish. It's also my family name. 

My father once told me that hundred years ago our ancestors came to anatolia from Xinjang(Sincan in Turkish)/Urumçi. He heard from his father and grandfather from his father....

That's why i get excited.. Thanks a lot

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## T-123456

Sinan said:


> Aksu means "White Water" in Turkish. It's also my family name.
> 
> My father once told me that hundred years ago our ancestors came to anatolia from Xinjang(Sincan in Turkish)/Urumçi. He heard from his father and grandfather from his father....
> 
> That's why i get excited.. Thanks a lot


So you are Chinese

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

T-123456 said:


> So you are Chinese


 
You should not be surprise, have you guys ever hear of Tabghach/Tuoba turk?


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## T-123456

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You should not be surprise, have you guys ever hear of Tabghach/Tuoba turk?


I didnt ,maybe @Targon knows.
Who are they and where are they from?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

T-123456 said:


> I didnt ,maybe @Targon knows.
> Who are they and where are they from?


 
I thought you guys know better than me about all Turkish clans...maybe i will leave this to other expert to clarify...these people known as *Xianbei *鮮卑, I thought they were from turkish clan.


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## T-123456

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I thought you guys know better than me about all Turkish clans...maybe i will leave this to other expert to clarify...these people known as *Xianbei *鮮卑, I thought they were from turkish clan.


Not all of us do,we have some specialists in every field and that is how we get most of our requiered info.
I'm sure its the same with you?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

T-123456 said:


> Not all of us do,we have some specialists in every field and that is how we get most of our requiered info.
> I'm sure its the same with you?


 
Fair enough, then we will wait for specialists


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## sahaliyan

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I thought you guys know better than me about all Turkish clans...maybe i will leave this to other expert to clarify...these people known as *Xianbei *鮮卑, I thought they were from turkish clan.


The Xianbei people were a Mongolic people,not Turkic,the Turkic people include the Tiele,Tujue(the Gokturks) and so on

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## -SINAN-

T-123456 said:


> So you are Chinese



Nope I'm Turk. 

Maybe i have a Uyghur lineage instead of Oghuz lineage.

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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> Holy Shıt........................................
> 
> Can you summarize..
> 
> What is
> 
> *Xinjiang*
> 
> *Urumçi *
> 
> *AKSU
> *
> I mean are those are region , or city or town ??? Can you or anybody please decribe.
> 
> @jkroo @TaiShang @StarCraft_ZT @xunzi


Basically, I agree with @dlclong. Xinjiang is a province level region of China. As I know, Urumqi the name came from ancient Monglia language means beautiful grass(farm) land.
Aksu ancient name is Asu and the city formed about 16th century. You are right about it mean white water. You need three glaciers and two river to totally figure it out. (Muzati river? Idont know how to write in English)
Now I totally understand your feelings that I call it historic sentimental. Hope it would not be your burdan to face the real world. You dont deserve humiliation for your ancistor had been expelled out of Xinjiang long long time ago. No this history then no your glory in Europe. If you take this feelings to bash China that is childish, right? The world goes by its own historic track not by individual's day dreams or delusions. Uyghurs is our brother ethnic group along with 56 ethnic group of China and they are not belong to other country. If you want to bring your kin to Turkey then try to help them and repect their own choice. To abandon home land always be defficulty though. I dont think opportunities in Xinjiang is less than Turkey. If a person is industrial enough he can make money easilly. Last time I got the news that a Uyghur youth make money online to sell chop cake in Hunan province.

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## -SINAN-

jkroo said:


> Now I totally understand your feelings that I call it historic sentimental. Hope it would not be your burdan to face the real world. You dont deserve humiliation for your ancistor had been expelled out of Xinjiang long long time ago. No this history then no your glory in Europe. If you take this feelings to bash China that is childish, right? The world goes by its own historic track not by individual's day dreams or delusions. Uyghurs is our brother ethnic group along with 56 ethnic group of China and they are not belong to other country. If you want to bring your kin to Turkey then try to help them and repect their own choice. To abandon home land always be defficulty though. I dont think opportunities in Xinjiang is less than Turkey. If a person is industrial enough he can make money easilly. Last time I got the news that a Uyghur youth make money online to sell chop cake in Hunan province.



I don't think our ancestors were humilated. They were powerful in the Central Asia.... but constant fights with Mongolians, Other Turkic Tribes, Chinese, Famine, Quakes, Harsh living conditions... pressed them to look for better homeland. And We found and claimed it. 

My sentiment for the Uyghur doesn't come from that my ancestor migrated from Urumçi.... I care about the all Turkic people around the world.


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## jkroo

Sinan said:


> I don't think our ancestors were humilated. They were powerful in the Central Asia.... but constant fights with Mongolians, Other Turkic Tribes, Chinese, Famine, Quakes, Harsh living conditions... pressed them to look for better homeland. And We found and claimed it.
> 
> My sentiment for the Uyghur doesn't come from that my ancestor migrated from Urumçi.... I care about the all Turkic people around the world.



Good enough. Your tribes survived and founded the empire. It was not easy. There are many Turkic language talking people. It's also not a easy work for you to care about everyone. As a philanthropist, you can care more other ethnic groups around world not only your kins. Go ahead and try to do positive contribution to them though I don't think something you talk about Xinjiang is positive.
I always admire those who is inclined to goodness or charity.

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## kalu_miah

I took a road trip by car from Kashgar to Atush and then to Aksu, very scenic trip. Aksu is a relatively common Turkic place name:
Aksu, Kazakhstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Aksu District, Almaty Province - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would encourage Turkish people to travel to Xinjiang, you will come back with a more realistic impression of Xinjiang.

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## BoQ77

*China Heightens Security for the Anniversary of the Xinjiang Riots*
*China Heightens Security for the Anniversary of the Xinjiang Riots*
July 4, 2014 | 1116 GMT




Ethnic Uighur women struggle against Chinese riot police at a protest in Xinjiang province in 2009. (PETER PARKS/AFP/Getty Images)

*Summary*
Chinese security forces will be on high alert July 5, the fifth anniversary of violent protests in Urumqi, the capital of the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region. The 2009 riots, which saw members of the Uighur ethnic minority group clash with Han Chinese civilians and police forces, resulted in 197 deaths and more than 1,700 injuries, making them one of the largest episodes of violent ethnic unrest in the past decade in China.

Police forces will be on high alert in urban centers across China, an increase from previous years. This expansion and intensification of the authorities' focus can be attributed to an eight-month flurry of violent Uighur-led or -inspired attacks against mostly Han Chinese civilians in cities across China. 

*Analysis*
The Uighurs have been increasingly active over the past year. Following an attack in front of the Tiananmen Rostrum in Beijing in October 2013, the Uighurs organized at least two more attacks against civilian targets in major Chinese urban centers outside of Xinjiang. Kunming, the capital of Yunnan province, was attacked in March and Guangzhou, the capital of Guangdong province, in May. Both incidents involved small groups of knife-wielding attackers targeting civilians at train stations. There have also been two attacks against civilians inside Xinjiang itself. One of these attacks involved a suicide bombing at a train station that was later supposedly claimed by the Turkistan Islamic Party. The other involved assailants driving two vehicles into a morning market frequented by Han Chinese and tossing improvised explosive devices into the crowd while reportedly shouting jihadist slogans. Collectively, these attacks resulted in more than 70 deaths and 200 injuries.





Click to Enlarge
The attacks of the last eight months indicate a potential shift in the nature of the security threat posed by ethnic groups. These in turn are driven by socioeconomic, religious and political tensions, not only in Xinjiang but nationwide. Organized terrorist attacks against civilians in China are not unprecedented, but they are rare. The rapid succession of Uighur attacks, as well as the methodological similarities between several of them -- target sets, locations and linkages to religious extremism -- suggest that this round of attacks could be a new trend.

It is still unclear whether and to what extent the recent attacks were coordinated. Some attacks show little sign of collaboration beyond individuals or small groups responding to localized interests. Others -- such as the suicide bombing at a train station in Urumqi on April 30, timed to coincide with Chinese President Xi Jinping's visit to the region -- appear to have benefited from some degree of organization by, or liaison with, established terrorist groups, in this case the Turkistan Islamic Party.


*Conversation: Uighur Separatism and Chinese Foreign Policy*
Only time will provide greater clarity about the degree of organization and coordination of the perpetrators. With each attack, more is revealed about the motivations of the attackers, such as whether they are local, regional or global in scope and whether primarily ethnically- or religiously-inspired. There is also much to be learned about the relationship between militant activity in Xinjiang and the wider Muslim world.

What is clear is that Beijing considers the attacks significant. Following the May 22 attack on a morning market in downtown Urumqi, the Chinese president personally called for a one-year anti-terrorism campaign to root out terrorism and religious extremism in Xinjiang. The campaign is still in its infancy, but already well over 100 suspected terrorists and separatists have been apprehended, many of whom have already been tried and sentenced to prison or death. On at least two occasions in the past six weeks, Chinese authorities have reported seizing significant amounts of explosive material, other bomb-making equipment, knives and assorted weapons during raids on militant bases.

On June 20, the Chinese government announced a crackdown on Internet material promoting religion-inspired militancy. Chinese police said they believe the majority of those taking part in recent attacks were exposed to "extremist content" through the Internet, and that the majority of this content comes from outside China's borders. This could indicate that Beijing takes seriously the possibility that the recent attacks are symptomatic of changes in the underlying ethnic, political and security dynamics of Xinjiang. Internal factors, such as increased industrial development and Han in-migration are influential, as are external factors, such as the Islamist militant activity underway in the Middle East and South Asia. Beijing fears that these changes, if left unchecked, could coalesce into something much larger and potentially more dangerous.

A coordinated terrorist insurgency in Xinjiang, whether homegrown or organized and directed from beyond China's borders, remains a distant prospect. But the Chinese government is preparing for the worst. The days and weeks surrounding the fifth anniversary of the Urumqi riots will test that preparation, as well as the effectiveness, of Beijing's anti-terrorism campaign. There are myriad differences between the attacks of the past eight months and the riots of 2009, which were comparatively uncoordinated but much larger. The riots also bore little or no religious message, instead inflamed by ethnic, historical and socio-economic tensions. However, in one important respect the recent wave of attacks fits firmly within the legacy and paradigm of the 2009 riots. The civil unrest brought a definitive end to the notion that Uighur ethnic unrest and militancy would focus on the Chinese government alone, rather than target the Chinese people. By exploiting the vulnerabilities of a civilian population, the violence opened a window that was bound to be exploited eventually with any number of smaller attacks.

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## Beidou2020

Why aren't the CPC killing these terrorists?

Giving them jail? Really?


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## cirr

*China Focus: New road exemplifies Xinjiang prosperity,stability drive
*
(Xinhua) 15:19, July 05, 2014

URUMQI, July 5 -- With construction forging ahead of an expressway linking Aksu toKashgar, Xinjiang will put another economic trunk line into use this year to boost its less developed southern area by cashing in on the country's strategy of opening to the west.

Stretching 428.5 km, the longest expressway under construction in China will facilitate economic exchanges between southern Xinjiang and the regional capital of Urumqi upon its completion, according to the project headquarters.

The road is also set to become an important corridor to Central Asia and Europe. Just as Aksu used to be a key stop along the ancient Silk Road, it will play a major part in the Silk Road Economic Belt, the modern international trade network proposed by Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Five years after rioting thugs killed nearly 200 people and injured another 1,700 in Urumqi on July 5, 2009, Xinjiang has been working to get rid of the shadow of terrorism through sound governance and the pursuit of lasting social stability and economic prosperity.

Zhang Chunxian, secretary of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Regional Committee, said he foresaw Xinjiang as a "bridgehead" in China's westward opening at an international symposium held in Urumqi shortly after China, Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan jointly had their part of the ancient Silk Road inscribed on the UNESCO World Heritage list in late June.

With geographical advantages, Xinjiang witnessed the integration of different civilizations in history and has now come to its golden age of development, said Zhang.

To spearhead the construction of the Silk Road Economic Belt project, which could involve over 40 Asian and European countries and regions with a combined population of three billion, Xinjiang must build itself into a regional traffic hub complete with a sound transport network covering its northern, central and southern areas to connect China with Central, West and South Asia as well as Europe and Africa.

The autonomous region has also been tasked with seizing the time to build itself into a regional trade, finance and logistics center.

Zhang is meanwhile aiming to boost cultural and education cooperation with countries along the Silk Road Economic Belt to turn Xinjiang into a regional center for culture, science, technology and education.

The healthcare industry will be strengthened through medical exchanges and cooperation with surrounding countries as the regional authority hopes to boost medical tourism.

According to Zhang, Xinjiang is even striving to be China's oil and gas processing and storage center, a large domestic base for coal power and coal chemical industries and wind power generation, as well as a land thoroughfare for energy and resources.

The regional government's development plan was made public after President Xi emphasized the significance of good governance in Xinjiang at the second central work conference on Xinjiang in late May.

Xi said that a priority of good governance is to improve people's livelihood so that everyone from all ethnic groups feels taken care of, and that the government should focus on employment, education and poverty alleviation.

At a meeting of the regional CPC Committee in late June, Zhang Chunxian said that to pursue social stability and better governance under the new circumstances, Xinjiang will modernize its governance system and capability by boosting the local economy and improving the people's livelihood, safeguarding national unity and ethnic solidarity, curbing religious extremism and strengthening the rule of law.

According to the region's official news portal Tianshannet (天山网 - 新疆新闻门户 the current goal of Xinjiang is to contain the permeation of religious extremist forces and terrorist activities, and to maintain social stability and tackle the deep-rooted problems hindering the autonomous region from achieving better governance and lasting peace.

Ma Dazheng, a researcher with the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences' Research Center for Chinese Borderland History and Geography Studies, said that the central leadership's vision on the governance of Xinjiang has become clearer with the opening of the second work conference on Xinjiang.

"A major change we have seen over the past five years is that better governance and lasting stability have become the top priority of the administrative goals while development is expanded from economic spheres to the overall development of the society," he observed.

"To improve the societal well-being of the people, ethnic and religious work is essential as half of the Xinjiang population are ethnic minorities and religious."

Pan Zhiping, professor with the Central Asia Research Institute with Xinjiang University, said that an inflection point has been reached in China's anti-terrorism and anti-extremism drive, with many more well-educated people and social leaders among ethnic minorities openly opposing religious extremists.

For instance, an open letter signed by more than 200 Uygur writers, poets and translatorsin Xinjiang has been widely relayed on the Internet denouncing terrorism.

In May, 11 Uygur youths from nine Chinese universities published a letter calling for fellow Uygurs to speak out on religious extremism and lend a hand to youths who may fall prey to it.

"Xinjiang has encountered reckless provocations from religious extremists due to the instability both within and without China. It's important for the administrators to have a clear and thorough understanding of the complexity of anti-terrorism situation and take along-term perspective," said Ma Dazheng.


China Focus: New road exemplifies Xinjiang prosperity, stability drive - People's Daily Online

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## BoQ77

Last week a top leader of China central intelligence agency was killed in Xinjiang.


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## jkroo

kalu_miah said:


> I took a road trip by car from Kashgar to Atush and then to Aksu, very scenic trip. Aksu is a relatively common Turkic place name:
> Aksu, Kazakhstan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Aksu District, Almaty Province - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> I would encourage Turkish people to travel to Xinjiang, you will come with a more realistic impression of Xinjiang.



It's very interesting. You can share your experiences with us if you have time.

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> Last week a top leader of China central intelligence agency was killed in Xinjiang.



Really? What was his name?


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## cirr

Expressway linking Aksu to Kashgar under construction

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## cirr

*San-Sha Expressway*（Sanchakou to Shache，233km yellow line）in Xinjiang to open in Oct. 2014 






新疆三莎高速公路10月通车-新闻中心-搜狐焦点网

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## Genesis

you know I noticed highways now days are really good, but the number of cars traveling on them leaves something to be desired. Could be because driving cost more than a HSR ticket, taking into account gas and tickets for the highway.

Which btw are ridiculously high btw.

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## cirr

*Six Expressways in Xinjiang totalling 1620km to open in 2014

G3012 Aksu to Kashgar section
S215 Sanchakou to Shache section
S310 Markit to Kashgar section
G30 Wusu to Sayram Lake section
G3015 Karamay to Tacheng section
G3014 Urho to Aletai section*






今年新疆有6条高速公路要通车_新浪新闻 

Lots more under construction or planned。






*Wonderland - Xinjiang *

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## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> Last week a top leader of China central intelligence agency was killed in Xinjiang.


Excuse me, you said he was killed? by who or what?



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Really? What was his name?


Yutianhua, died from illness.

公安部情报中心副主任在新疆发病去世 年仅47岁|公安部情报中心副主任去世_新浪新闻

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## Jlaw

BoQ77 said:


> Last week a top leader of China central intelligence agency was killed in Xinjiang.


Long Duk Dong? He's a viet.


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## jkroo

Good, these highways are impressive.

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## cirr

Genesis said:


> you know I noticed highways now days are really good, but the number of cars traveling on them leaves something to be desired. Could be because driving cost more than a HSR ticket, taking into account gas and tickets for the highway.
> 
> Which btw are ridiculously high btw.



Yes, toll fees are way too high for many road segments.

I guess the BOT concession holders want to recoup their investment as early as possible。



jkroo said:


> Good, these highways are impressive.



It's early days yet







The trunk routes of Xinjiang expressway netowrk：present and future

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## cirr



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## BoQ77

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Really? What was his name?



Yu Tianhua died at 47 years old. on June 29, 2014 at 18 o'clock in Urumqi

Yu Tianhua, Deputy Director of the Centre of the Ministry of public security intelligence participated in the special action to crack down on violent terrorist criminal activities of public security in Xinjiang during the Working Group,

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## Aepsilons

BoQ77 said:


> Yu Tianhua died at 47 years old. on June 29, 2014 at 18 o'clock in Urumqi
> 
> Yu Tianhua, Deputy Director of the Centre of the Ministry of public security intelligence participated in the special action to crack down on violent terrorist criminal activities of public security in Xinjiang during the Working Group,



May he rest in peace....!


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## steelseries779

sweetgrape said:


> Excuse me, you said he was killed? by who or what?
> 
> 
> Yutianhua, died from illness.
> 
> 公安部情报中心副主任在新疆发病去世 年仅47岁|公安部情报中心副主任去世_新浪新闻



我也觉得可能是被杀的。新闻里只说了，突发疾病。如果真是猝死，自杀或者心脏病，那新闻里没理由要去刻意隐瞒。而且，如果只是普通的病死，公安部长也没必要过去。哎，个人看法。

我估计他也就是个副厅级干部，但是一下子来了8-9个省部级领导去悼念，只可能是牺牲了，不可能是病死。

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## sweetgrape

steelseries779 said:


> 我也觉得可能是被杀的。新闻里只说了，突发疾病。如果真是猝死，自杀或者心脏病，那新闻里没理由要去刻意隐瞒。而且，如果只是普通的病死，公安部长也没必要过去。哎，个人看法。


这个我不是不知道，有些报告用了“牺牲”两个字，如果是突发病而去世的，就没有必要用这个字了，而且在新疆去世，这个不可能不引起人的怀疑。

我只是看那越南人不爽，呵呵！

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## steelseries779

sweetgrape said:


> 这个我不是不知道，有些报告用了“牺牲”两个字，如果是突发病而去世的，就没有必要用这个字了，而且在新疆去世，这个不可能不引起人的怀疑。
> 
> 我只是看那越南人不爽，呵呵！



我也看他不爽，其他越南人也就罢了，这货实在是太鸡巴恶心了，哈哈。

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## sweetgrape

steelseries779 said:


> 我也看他不爽，其他越南人也就罢了，这货实在是太鸡巴恶心了，哈哈。


这个坛子里，哪个越南人不恶心，这个还算好一点（其实这个人在坛子里有两个帐号），像NiceGuy这样的才叫恶心呢，跟白痴差不多，看他的言论真感觉美国Orange agent的危害真不浅。

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## steelseries779

sweetgrape said:


> 这个坛子里，哪个越南人不恶心，这个还算好一点（其实这个人在坛子里有两个帐号），像NiceGuy这样的才叫恶心呢，跟白痴差不多，看他的言论真感觉美国Orange agent的危害真不浅。



哈哈，niceguy相对来说脑子有点不够用，为何放弃治疗呢。

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## Rechoice

*China's Uighurs claim cultural 'genocide'*

*Why the Uighur people will continue to reject China's colonial and apartheid rule.*




Alim A Seytoff is the spokesperson for the World Uyghur Congress and the president of Uyghur American Association based in Washington, DC.






When people in the Muslim East and democratic West thought of China, they tended to think of it as a unified, strong, homogeneous and peaceful nation of Chinese people with a long, shared history happily living and advancing under Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) glorious rule.

In the relaxed post-Cold War political atmosphere, and especially after the West had engaged China, they tended to think of China as if it were a democracy, completely ignoring or subconsciously forgetting that China was still being ruled by one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world. Impressed by the breathtaking state-led development in China over the past 30 years and wanting strongly to enter the huge Chinese market to make millions, many nations and big corporations simply turned a blind eye to China's policies of heavy-handed repression of the Turkic and Muslim Uighur people of East Turkestan, which China renamed "Xinjiang".

However, the myth of a unified, strong, homogeneous and peaceful China has been increasingly challenged and shattered by the recent series of tragic events in East Turkestan and inner China, shocking both the Chinese people and the international community who were used to believing Beijing's interpretation of the political history of annexed territories and its so-called preferential treatment of the minorities.

''The Uyghur people, just like the Tibetans, will simply not continue to accept China's colonial and apartheid rule in their homeland in the 21st century. The ball is in Beijing's court."

On May 22, Chinese state media reported a bombing at an open market in Urumqi which caused the deaths of 31 people and injured 94. Although no Uighur group claimed responsibility, Beijing blamed the Uighurs. The attack was a latest in a series of attacks, including the Urumqi train station, Kunming train station and Tiananmen Square, allegedly carried out by the Uighurs. The attack on civilians was deplorable.

While the Chinese government continues to blame the violence on the "three evil forces of terrorism, separatism and religious extremism", many Chinese were brutally awakened to the facade of Beijing's narrative of a "peaceful liberation of Xinjiang" and the"happy dancing and singing" Uighurs in colourful costumes who offer nothing but praise to China's colonial rule in East Turkestan.

The bad blood between the Chinese state and Uighur people didn't begin yesterday. It began when Chinese communist forces led by General Wang Zhen occupied the East Turkestan Republic in October 1949 with the support of the Soviet Union and pacified the resistant Uighur people through public executions and massacres. Tens of thousands of Uighurs were killed by Wang's troops in communist China's conquest of East Turkestan.

*Promises of self-rule*

Although Chinese communists initially promised self-rule and even independence for non-Chinese people, it soon reneged on its promise after annexation and established the "Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region" in 1955. Contrary to Beijing's claims that "Xinjiang has been an inalienable part of China since ancient times", Xinjiang in Chinese literally means "New Territory".

The name "Xinjiang" is a direct insult heaped upon the indigenous Uighur people who have lived there for thousands of years while the use of "East Turkestan" by Uighurs is criminalised. The Uighur people, like the Tibetans and Mongols, have never enjoyed autonomy in their so-called Autonomous Region because all the political, military, police and economic decision-making powers are in the hands of Chinese officials. Uighurs at all government levels serve as figureheads, including the regional chairman.

Since China annexed East Turkestan, the relationship between the Chinese state and the indigenous Uighurs has been one of coloniser and colonised. In order to control the "New Territory", China ruthlessly suppressed any sign of Uighur unrest and transferred millions of loyal Chinese settlers into East Turkestan, providing them with jobs, housing, bank loans and economic opportunities denied to Uighurs.

At the same time, Chinese state corporations exploited the abundant natural resources of East Turkestan and transferred them to the Chinese motherland, leaving nothing to the Uighurs. While East Turkestan which is roughly the size of Iran possesses huge reserves of natural gas, oil, gold, uranium, coal and other minerals, the living standard of Uighurs is one of the lowest in China. The Uighur population in East Turkestan, which was nearly 90 percent in 1949, is now only 45 percent, while the Chinese population grew disproportionately due to state-sponsored mass settlement from around six percent in 1953 to the current 40 percent (excluding the Chinese military, seasonal workers and floating population). Many Uighurs believe Chinese are already a majority since Beijing continues to encourage their settlement.

The Uighur resentment toward Chinese rule comes from their loss of independence, failure to master and change their political destiny, and the sense of being overwhelmed by millions of Chinese settlers, who threaten their very existence as an historic, sovereign, and indigenous majority in their homeland of East Turkestan. They also resent the current Chinese colonial and apartheid rule, the systematic repression of Uighur people since 1949 and the reframing of its wholesale attack on the Uighurs as a fight against "Islamic terrorism" since 9/11.

*Cultural 'genocide'*

What is more, China tested 45 nuclear devices, both under and above ground, between 1964 and 1996 in East Turkestan, polluting air, water, land, and slowly killing both people and livestock due to the effects of radiation. Uighur resentment toward Chinese rule was further reinforced by China's current policies of cultural "genocide" on Uighur identity, culture, religious beliefs and practices, in addition to Chinese soldiers' extrajudicial and indiscriminate killings of Uighur men, women and children.

The Uighurs feel powerless to defend their historic homeland, their way of life, identity, culture, language and religion from Beijing's ever-intensifying onslaught and Chinese settlers appropriating everything that once belonged rightfully to them. When moderate Uighurs such as Professor Ilham Tohti and linguist Abduweli Ayup who had tried to work within the Chinese system were denounced and arrested, some then took matters into their hands out of desperation and committed horrific acts of political violence against not only Chinese security forces, but also against settlers.

Such attacks were immediately taken advantage of by Beijing to skillfully spin the narrative that it faced a "terrorist threat from Muslim Uighurs" and "China was also a victim of terrorism" in order to win public opinion both in China and the world and silence international criticism of its subsequent heavy-handed repression. Regardless of how China spins the story, the vast majority of Uighurs are peaceful and hoping for a peaceful change. Our repeated calls for a peaceful dialogue to resolve the political situation have fallen on deaf ears in Beijing. We believe a peaceful resolution of the East Turkestan issue is in the interest of both sides and the vicious cycle of violence has proven to be not a solution at all.

The Chinese government must understand that East Turkestan cannot be a land of opportunity and prosperity for the colonising Chinese settlers and a land of death and destruction for the indigenous Uighur people. Simply put, Beijing cannot maintain political stability or create ethnic harmony in East Turkestan by pointing a gun at every Uighur's head and fight the so-called three evil forces by treating all Uighurs as terror suspects or enemies of the Chinese state.

China has a clear choice - either treat the Uighur people as genuine Chinese citizens by honouring China's constitution and Regional Ethnic Autonomy Laws, or treat them as non-Chinese citizens and allow them self-determination to pursue their own political future. The Uighur people, just like the Tibetans, will simply continue to reject China's colonial and apartheid rule in their homeland in the 21st century.

The ball is in Beijing's court. If China continues to resist choosing either, but rather applies the same old failing method of heavy-handed repression on the one hand and forcible assimilation on the other, then it only means China has chosen war with all Uighurs and China will eventually turn its "New Territory" into its own Palestine.

_*Alim A Seytoff is the spokesperson for the World Uyghur Congress and the president of Uyghur American Association based in Washington, DC.*_

*The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.*

China's Uighurs claim cultural 'genocide' - Opinion - Al Jazeera English

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## BoQ77

sweetgrape said:


> Excuse me, you said he was killed? by who or what?
> 
> 
> Yutianhua, died from illness.
> 
> 公安部情报中心副主任在新疆发病去世 年仅47岁|公安部情报中心副主任去世_新浪新闻



Let explain me, why an illness high rank official was not treated in Beijing, but come to death in Urumqi?


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## Rahul9090

CAIRO – A Chinese ban on Ramadan fasting for uighur Muslims in the Muslim-majority northwest district of Xinjiang has sparked protests from Saudis and expatriates who demanded a boycott of Chinese products.

“It’s the highest degree of injustice. People should be allowed to practice their religion,” Mohammed Badahdah, assistant secretary-general of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, told Arab News.

“This shows their anti-Islam attitude as they consider those who practice Islam as terrorists. If this is allowed to continue, they will ban Muslims from Hajj and Umrah.”

Every year, Chinese authorities have repeatedly imposed restrictions on Uighur Muslim in the northwestern region of Xinjiang every Ramadan.

Ramadan, the holiest month in Islamic calendar, falls this year between Sunday, June 29, and July 28.

In Ramadan, adult Muslims abstain from food, drink, smoking and sex between dawn and sunset.

The sick and those traveling are exempt from fasting especially if it poses health risks.

Under the restrictions, all Muslim state employees were forced not to observe the fasting month of Ramadan.

Badahdah said the Chinese government has been imposing anti-Islam policies for the past several years, adding that the UN and Security Council have failed to protect Muslims.

“China is a closed country and we have started knowing about its oppressive policies against Muslims through social media,” he said.

“We Muslims have to unite and return to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah. That is the only solution for our problems,” he told Arab News.

Badahdah said the Chinese action was a violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that protects freedom of religion and opinion, adding that tyrants and tyrannical regimes in the world would disappear one day.

“They have to learn lessons from history,” he said.

*Muslim Unity*

Rejecting the Chinese restrictions on their fellow Muslims, Saudis urged a Muslim unity to take political and economic actions against China for its oppressive policy.

“So Muslims all over the world should unite against such unjust and inhuman practices to put an end to them,” Badahdah, the assistant secretary-general of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, said.

“We are a big force with a population of 1.5 billion and should defeat the enemy’s machinations to divide us. We have to become real Muslims to receive the help of Allah.”

Others urged Saudi Arabia and other OIC countries to support Muslim minorities in China and elsewhere.

“Our government took strong action against the Netherlands when a rightwing politician in the country abused Islam and the Saudi flag. We should take similar action against China if they do not review their anti-Muslim stance,” Fuad Tawfik, a Saudi engineer, told Arab News.

The 57-member Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), meanwhile, said it has contacted the Chinese government to discuss the issue.

“We are waiting for a reply from China,” an informed source told Arab News.

Tawfik decried the worsening condition of Muslims all over the world.

“They are even tested by some Muslim governments. This is very unfortunate. At the same time, it gives us the glad tidings that the support of the Almighty is very near for Muslims to overcome this period of troubles and tribulations. But we should exercise patience,” he said.

Blogger Hashmet Hussain urged a Muslim boycott for Chinese products.

“Banning the basic right of following the religion of Islam is a kind of terrorism,” he said.

Another blogger said: “For their own benefit China should immediately withdraw their decision and apologize to Muslims


Muslims Protest China’s Ramadan Ban - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net

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## BoQ77

steelseries779 said:


> 我也觉得可能是被杀的。新闻里只说了，突发疾病。如果真是猝死，自杀或者心脏病，那新闻里没理由要去刻意隐瞒。而且，如果只是普通的病死，公安部长也没必要过去。哎，个人看法。
> 
> 我估计他也就是个副厅级干部，但是一下子来了8-9个省部级领导去悼念，只可能是牺牲了，不可能是病死。



I know. Whoever believe that he died by illness. Even Chinese news report used the word "sacrificed" means this is a KIA case


----------



## qamar1990

Rahul9090 said:


> CAIRO – A Chinese ban on Ramadan fasting for uighur Muslims in the Muslim-majority northwest district of Xinjiang has sparked protests from Saudis and expatriates who demanded a boycott of Chinese products.
> 
> “It’s the highest degree of injustice. People should be allowed to practice their religion,” Mohammed Badahdah, assistant secretary-general of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, told Arab News.
> 
> “This shows their anti-Islam attitude as they consider those who practice Islam as terrorists. If this is allowed to continue, they will ban Muslims from Hajj and Umrah.”
> 
> Every year, Chinese authorities have repeatedly imposed restrictions on Uighur Muslim in the northwestern region of Xinjiang every Ramadan.
> 
> Ramadan, the holiest month in Islamic calendar, falls this year between Sunday, June 29, and July 28.
> 
> In Ramadan, adult Muslims abstain from food, drink, smoking and sex between dawn and sunset.
> 
> The sick and those traveling are exempt from fasting especially if it poses health risks.
> 
> Under the restrictions, all Muslim state employees were forced not to observe the fasting month of Ramadan.
> 
> Badahdah said the Chinese government has been imposing anti-Islam policies for the past several years, adding that the UN and Security Council have failed to protect Muslims.
> 
> “China is a closed country and we have started knowing about its oppressive policies against Muslims through social media,” he said.
> 
> “We Muslims have to unite and return to the teachings of the Qur’an and Sunnah. That is the only solution for our problems,” he told Arab News.
> 
> Badahdah said the Chinese action was a violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that protects freedom of religion and opinion, adding that tyrants and tyrannical regimes in the world would disappear one day.
> 
> “They have to learn lessons from history,” he said.
> 
> *Muslim Unity*
> 
> Rejecting the Chinese restrictions on their fellow Muslims, Saudis urged a Muslim unity to take political and economic actions against China for its oppressive policy.
> 
> “So Muslims all over the world should unite against such unjust and inhuman practices to put an end to them,” Badahdah, the assistant secretary-general of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, said.
> 
> “We are a big force with a population of 1.5 billion and should defeat the enemy’s machinations to divide us. We have to become real Muslims to receive the help of Allah.”
> 
> Others urged Saudi Arabia and other OIC countries to support Muslim minorities in China and elsewhere.
> 
> “Our government took strong action against the Netherlands when a rightwing politician in the country abused Islam and the Saudi flag. We should take similar action against China if they do not review their anti-Muslim stance,” Fuad Tawfik, a Saudi engineer, told Arab News.
> 
> The 57-member Organization of Islamic Cooperation (OIC), meanwhile, said it has contacted the Chinese government to discuss the issue.
> 
> “We are waiting for a reply from China,” an informed source told Arab News.
> 
> Tawfik decried the worsening condition of Muslims all over the world.
> 
> “They are even tested by some Muslim governments. This is very unfortunate. At the same time, it gives us the glad tidings that the support of the Almighty is very near for Muslims to overcome this period of troubles and tribulations. But we should exercise patience,” he said.
> 
> Blogger Hashmet Hussain urged a Muslim boycott for Chinese products.
> 
> “Banning the basic right of following the religion of Islam is a kind of terrorism,” he said.
> 
> Another blogger said: “For their own benefit China should immediately withdraw their decision and apologize to Muslims
> 
> 
> Muslims Protest China’s Ramadan Ban - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net


very good news

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## Zarvan

China is asking for a massive war inside china by doing these actions

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## xunzi

Say a country that restrict religious freedom to the bare teeth. Saudi is not in position to criticize our internal policy aim at perfecting government official duty to perform up to its task.

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## notsuperstitious

Pakistanis should protest in support of China to shut these people up.

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## Lux de Veritas

This ban is a stupid policy. Come and learn from Singapore. You guys have merely 10 million Uyghurs vs 1.3 billion Han and got so much problem.

Singapore has just 2.5 million Chinese citizen surrounded by 250 million Islamist within and without. We have religion and racial harmony.


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## Pakistanisage

Pakistan should mind its own business.....

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## xunzi

I will not blame our Muslim friends. Our government is one of the most disciplinary body. The government always seek to discipline its employees and officials so that they can preform their duty to the best of their ability. This is something our Muslim friends can learn from that. As official, you need to perform your duty or quit and find another jobs suitable to your religious belief.

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## Jf Thunder

let KSA knock itself out, im still sure its nothing big, if it was our government would surely lodge some type of protest due to our close relations with China , WE TRUST YOU CHINA

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## Lux de Veritas

The reason why Muslims have no trouble in Singapore is

*1) Our government closes most sectarian schools and put most citizen in government schools
2) We have a public housing policy that has a racial quota to prevent formation of ethnic enclaves*

The bad thing of China policy after the opening up is the reverse of Mao's racial policy by allowing Madrassah. In Madrassah, students of different race do not mix. In Singapore, the Malay who want to kill a Chinese will think about the good things his Chinese classmate and teachers did to them. The humanistic thought is what defeat the sectarian conflict. You cannot have it if Muslims are educated in Madrassah.

The Singaporeans Chinese are generally richer and by imposing a racial housing quota, the rich Chinese and poorer Malay stay side by side. There is no chance for people to form criminal gangs or terrorist cell under such backdrop. There is no critical mass of rascal population.

Even when there is, we have no short of informers.

By having racial quarters, the poorer uyghurs who never study well will form criminal gangs at the best, terrorist cell at the worst. The police will never get informers.

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## Android

China imposes some restrictions just during Ramadan month and global media goes crazy over religious freedom while there are many countries where its literally illegal or forbidden to practice any other faith apart from their state religion yet media maintains relative silence over the issue. Talk about selective journalism.

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## Dr.Iftikhar

China should respect the religious believes of their Muslim employees. Imposing such restriction is against the human rights. China is progressing but forgetting the ultimate power of one greatest force that can stop the whole progress in days!

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## Dem!god

atlest on.this i am with china...
its their country and its them to decide how to treat their citizen..

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## xunzi

Android said:


> China imposes some restrictions just during Ramadan month and global media goes crazy over religious freedom while there are many countries where its literally illegal or forbidden to practice any other faith apart from their state religion yet media maintains relative silence over the issue. Talk about selective journalism.


This is something we don't understand as well. It seems we have no sovereign rights whatsoever to conduct our internal government policy. Do we need to ask our Muslim friends about the various treatment of non-Muslim? Nope that is not our style and we have no interest in bugging into other country internal affair. Likewise, we ask others to respect us. Like I recommend, if they don't like that policy, they can seek other jobs or request to stay at home during that month. We can't afford having our government officials not performing their best duty due to various religious function that is detrimental to their mental and physical health.

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## Dem!god

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> China should respect the religious believes of their Muslim employees. Imposing such restriction is against the human rights. China is progressing but forgetting the ultimate power of one greatest force that can stop the whole progress in days!


they are atheist bro, they don't believe in that ultimate power.....

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## Lux de Veritas

xunzi said:


> This is something we don't understand as well. It seems we have no sovereign rights whatsoever to conduct our internal government policy. Do we need to ask our Muslim friends about the various treatment of non-Muslim? Nope that is not our style and we have no interest in bugging into other country internal affair. Likewise, we ask others to respect us. Like I recommend, if they don't like that policy, they can seek other jobs or request to stay at home during that month. We can't afford having our government officials not performing their best duty due to various religious function that is detrimental to their mental and physical health.



Every states has sovereign rights. Everyone has entitlement of their opinion, and they are free to express it in PDF.

The ban is a stupid policy.


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## Jf Thunder

xunzi said:


> This is something we don't understand as well. It seems we have no sovereign rights whatsoever to conduct our internal government policy. Do we need to ask our Muslim friends about the various treatment of non-Muslim? Nope that is not our style and we have no interest in bugging into other country internal affair. Likewise, we ask others to respect us. Like I recommend, if they don't like that policy, they can seek other jobs or request to stay at home during that month. We can't afford having our government officials not performing their best duty due to various religious function that is detrimental to their mental and physical health.


wait, isnt there summer vacation in China?


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## xunzi

Lux de Veritas said:


> Every states has sovereign rights. Everyone has entitlement of their opinion, and they are free to express it in PDF.
> 
> The ban is a stupid policy.


Really? We feel like we don't have any rights. 

The policy is a test. If it works, it sticks. If it doesn't, we abort it and try new policy to perfect our government official.



Jf Thunder said:


> wait, isnt there summer vacation in China?


Summer vacation for student or government?

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## Jf Thunder

xunzi said:


> Summer vacation for student or government?


students


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## xunzi

Jf Thunder said:


> students


Depends when is Ramadan month? There is summer school too.

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## Jf Thunder

xunzi said:


> Depends when is Ramadan month? There is summer school too.


i was asking cuz Ramazan has been overlapping with summer vacations here in Pakistan for quite some time now, and will continue to do so, and isnt summer school optional?


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## UKBengali

xunzi said:


> This is something we don't understand as well. It seems we have no sovereign rights whatsoever to conduct our internal government policy. Do we need to ask our Muslim friends about the various treatment of non-Muslim? Nope that is not our style and we have no interest in bugging into other country internal affair. Likewise, we ask others to respect us. Like I recommend, if they don't like that policy, they can seek other jobs or request to stay at home during that month. We can't afford having our government officials not performing their best duty due to various religious function that is detrimental to their mental and physical health.




The policy is misguided for a couple of reasons:

1. It is the inalienable right of citizens to follow their own personal beliefs as long as it does not harm others. There is little to no edivence that fasting has much effect on work performance in offices and even if it did, China wont be massively affected as only a tiny percentage of its population fast for one month of the year.

2. This is exactly the kind of thing that China haters will use to try to drive a wedge between China and the Muslim world.China needs a friendly Muslim world in order to be able to create a new power centre to rival the West.

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## xunzi

Jf Thunder said:


> i was asking cuz Ramazan has been overlapping with summer vacations here in Pakistan for quite some time now, and will continue to do so, and isnt summer school optional?


Yeah it is optional. Usually July and Aug. It is minor concern if Ramazan month fall in September or something?

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## Jf Thunder

xunzi said:


> Yeah it is optional. Usually July and Aug. It is minor concern if Ramazan month fall in September or something?


it changes every year, it goes 10 days back every year according to the Solar calendar, this time it started from first of july, next year it will fall 10 days back, and next more 10 days back, so it depends when there is summer vacation in which country,

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## sahaliyan

UKBengali said:


> The policy is misguided for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. It is the inalienable right of citizens to follow thier own personal beliefs as long as it dies not harm others. There is little to no edivence that fasting has much effect on work performance in offices and even if it did, China wont be massively affected as only a tiny percentage of its population fast for one month of the year.
> 
> 2. This is exactly the kind of thing that China haters will use to try to drive a wedge between China and the Muslim world.China needs a friendly Mulim world in order to be able to create a new power centre to rival the West.


I agree,sometimes I find the policy makers of CCP stupid,the better way to deal with islamic extremism is to invest more in education and develope the economy.
But however I still think Saudi as a country force the non-muslim women to wear Hajib has no right to speak things like religious freedom.

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## xunzi

UKBengali said:


> The policy is misguided for a couple of reasons:
> 
> 1. It is the inalienable right of citizens to follow thier own personal beliefs as long as it dies not harm others. There is little to no edivence that fasting has much effect on work performance in offices and even if it did, China wont be massively affected as only a tiny percentage of its population fast for one month of the year.
> 
> 2. This is exactly the kind of thing that China haters will use to try to drive a wedge between China and the Muslim world.China needs a friendly Mulim world in order to be able to create a new power centre to rival the West.


1. Yes but you have to understand that Chinese officials are very highly discipline in Chinese society and they do need to set example to perform at their best. Any slight, even if it's miniscule in nature, in performance is not good.

2. We know that. Trust me, we are not stupid like some of our Anti-China friends think. If you ask me why we do this. I have a theory. My theory is that our intelligent service agents must have discovered a plan from the outside separatists trying to recruit the Uighurs during this time of fasting gathering. So we put a stop and see how it goes. If it works, it's good. If it's doesn't, we abort it.



Jf Thunder said:


> it changes every year, it goes 10 days back every year according to the Solar calendar, this time it started from first of july, next year it will fall 10 days back, and next more 10 days back, so it depends when there is summer vacation in which country,


Then there is nothing to be worry about. July is non-school day for most students.

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## Jf Thunder

xunzi said:


> 1. Yes but you have to understand that Chinese officials are very highly discipline in Chinese society and they do need to set example to perform at their best. Any slight, even if it's miniscule in nature, in performance is not good.
> 
> 2. We know that. Trust me, we are not stupid like some of our Anti-China friends think. If you ask me why we do this. I have a theory. My theory is that our intelligent service agents must have discovered a plan from the outside separatists trying to recruit the Uighurs during this time of fasting gathering. So we put a stop and see how it goes. If it works, it's good. If it's doesn't, we abort it.
> 
> 
> Then there is nothing to be worry about. July is non-school day for most students.


i am now going to rate all your posts, as you have dont to me


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## Dr.Iftikhar

xunzi said:


> This is something we don't understand as well. It seems we have no sovereign rights whatsoever to conduct our internal government policy. Do we need to ask our Muslim friends about the various treatment of non-Muslim? Nope that is not our style and we have no interest in bugging into other country internal affair. Likewise, we ask others to respect us. Like I recommend, if they don't like that policy, they can seek other jobs or request to stay at home during that month. We can't afford having our government officials not performing their best duty due to various religious function that is detrimental to their mental and physical health.



Well here is a very simple thing to understand that all religious matters are not the internal matters of a country. Efficient government policies should care for zero conflict situation in a society. Respect of religion is universal and is acted upon by the majority of Earth population. There is definitely something wrong If a country policy is against the universally accepted policy.
Fasting have no bad effects on the physical and mental conditions of a human so it cannot effect the duty or performance.
You are right about the the element of the respect of policies but what about disrespecting religious believes?

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## xunzi

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> Well here is a very simple thing to understand that all religious matters are not the internal matters of a country. Efficient government policies should care for zero conflict situation in a society. Respect of religion is universal and is acted upon by the majority of Earth population. There is definitely something wrong If a country policy is against the universally accepted policy.
> Fasting have no bad effects on the physical and mental conditions of a human so it cannot effect the duty or performance.
> You are right about the the element of the respect of policies but what about the disrespecting the religious believes?


So I ask you, do you think Muslim states respect non-Muslim or other religious belief and custom? Well we don't know unless there is a study on the effect of fasting. It seems unhealthy, especially for kids, people with weak abdominal stomach, or illness people who need to eat during daylight. We respect freedom of Muslim. Don't get caught up in the act. This is only a minor event to protect the country interest.

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## wolfschanzze

Jf Thunder said:


> i was asking cuz Ramazan has been overlapping with summer vacations here in Pakistan for quite some time now, and will continue to do so, and isnt summer school optional?


This is not summer,Summer in china is over, Winter will start soon for them.


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## Dr.Iftikhar

xunzi said:


> So I ask you, do you think Muslim states respect non-Muslim or other religious belief and custom? Well we don't know unless there is a study on the effect of fasting. It seems unhealthy, especially for kids, people with weak abdominal stomach, or illness people who need to eat during daylight. We respect freedom of Muslim. Don't get caught up in the act. This is only a minor event to protect the country interest.



In a Muslim state there is always respect for non-Muslims. Non-Muslims can spent their lives according to their believes. Muslim governments and policy makers always care for these things. This is the Islamic teaching. If in any Muslim country of world anything going against the Islamic teachings we all Muslims will be the first to raise voice against them. Humans are important than religion or policies, religions and policies are for the benefits of humans.

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## wolfschanzze

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> Well here is a very simple thing to understand that all religious matters are not the internal matters of a country. Efficient government policies should care for zero conflict situation in a society. Respect of religion is universal and is acted upon by the majority of Earth population. There is definitely something wrong If a country policy is against the universally accepted policy.
> Fasting have no bad effects on the physical and mental conditions of a human so it cannot effect the duty or performance.
> You are right about the the element of the respect of policies but what about disrespecting religious believes?


Who says Fasting doesn't have any effect on Mental and Physical condition of the body?Muslims refrain from Eating and drinking even water from dawn to dusk.The blood glucose levels falls after fasting for 2 hours and dehydration sets in afterwards.Without adequate re-hydration Lactic Acid builds up in Muscles which leads to fatigue and muscle cramps, The brain needs a lot of glucose every hour to function as its primary fuel is glucose, once its used up it uses ketone bodies as reserve fuel,which is not good for brain function.
With such low blood glucose levels falling every hour the person becomes lethargic not able to concentrate better and thereby cause lapses of judgement in work which can lead to disaster in many cases.

I see many muslim people who just sleep or rest without working all day from dawn to dusk while fasting to conserve energy,if that is the case chinese government is right in enforcing the rules that officials should not be fasting.

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## Gautam

Pakistan should avoid these protests to secure the Chinese friendship, which is much more important than the so called Ummah ka Chumma.

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## Phukimak

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> In a Muslim state there is always respect for non-Muslims. Non-Muslims can spent their lives according to their believes. Muslim governments and policy makers always care for these things. This is the Islamic teaching. If in any Muslim country of world anything going against the Islamic teachings we all Muslims will be the first to raise voice against them. Humans are important than religion or policies, religions and policies are for the benefits of humans.




Hai... I'm from Indonesia... 
Your statement about in Muslim state is always respect non Muslim is totally bullshit... 
As an atheis also minorities here... There's discrimination toward us.. ( I'm indonesia born Chinese )

Here's the example how crazy Muslim can be...

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## FunkyGen

Pakistan MUST mind it's own business.... Their land THEIR rules!


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## Phukimak

wolfschanzze said:


> Who says Fasting doesn't have any effect on Mental and Physical condition of the body?Muslims refrain from Eating and drinking even water from dawn to dusk.The blood glucose levels falls after fasting for 2 hours and dehydration sets in afterwards.Without adequate re-hydration Lactic Acid builds up in Muscles which leads to fatigue and muscle cramps, The brain needs a lot of glucose every hour to function as its primary fuel is glucose, once its used up it uses ketone bodies as reserve fuel,which is not good for brain function.
> With such low blood glucose levels falling every hour the person becomes lethargic not able to concentrate better and thereby cause lapses of judgement in work which can lead to disaster in many cases.
> 
> I see many muslim people who just sleep or rest without working all day from dawn to dusk while fasting to conserve energy,if that is the case chinese government is right in enforcing the rules that officials should not be fasting.



I'm totally agree with you...
In Indonesia , the government officer who fast during the Ramadan .. They twice lazy as normal day.. Unproductive and wasting their time with sleeping at the office..

What china did is a great example... They now how to prevent bad thing.. Also they have their head up their asses..

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## sahaliyan

xunzi said:


> 1. Yes





Dr.Iftikhar said:


> In a Muslim state there is always respect for non-Muslims. Non-Muslims can spent their lives according to their believes. Muslim governments and policy makers always care for these things. This is the Islamic teaching. If in any Muslim country of world anything going against the Islamic teachings we all Muslims will be the first to raise voice against them. Humans are important than religion or policies, religions and policies are for the benefits of humans.


In Saudi Arabia,even a non-Muslim woman should wear Hajib and non-Muslims can't drink alcohol,is this respect for non-Muslims?
While I think this ban is wrong,but the criticism come from Saudi Arabia make me silly

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## OrionHunter

Zarvan said:


> China is asking for a massive war inside china by doing these actions


But what has Pakistan done? Turned a blind eye! If this had happened in India, Pakistan would have gone to town on the issue and even passed a resolution in Parliament against India for atrocities being committed against Muslims! They would probably have petitioned the UN for imposing sanctions against India for religious and human rights abuses!

And General Hafiz Saeed and his ilk, the DEP would have raised Cain ordering Pakistan to attack India and save all the Muslims who are being persecuted!

But then this happened in China whose relationship is deeper than the oceans, sweeter than honey, stronger than steel and higher than the mountains. How therefore can Pakistan say anything against its big brother? Never mind if it goes against the traditions of Islam. China comes first always and every time! 

So much for hypocrisy!

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## Phukimak

sahaliyan said:


> In Saudi Arabia,even a non-Muslim woman should wear Hajib and non-Muslims can't drink alcohol,is this respect for non-Muslims?
> While I think this ban is wrong,but the criticism come from Saudi Arabia make me silly




In Indonesia you can found , some island or province forbidden any restaurant to operate during ramahdan..
They called respect toward Muslim people... But on other hand, they ruin people business... 

There are also FPI ( Indonesia Muslim hard liner ) they government can't do anything about them,... They destroying Christian house because being used for religious event, or they destroyed church just because the location near mosque...


Well... All I can said is... Welcome to the jungle...


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## sahaliyan

OrionHunter said:


> But what has Pakistan done? Turned a blind eye! If this had happened in India, Pakistan would have gone to town on the issue and even passed a resolution in Parliament against India for atrocities being committed against Muslims! They would probably have petitioned the UN for imposing sanctions against India for religious and human rights abuses!
> 
> And General Hafiz Saeed and his ilk, the DEP would have raised Cain ordering Pakistan to attack India and save all the Muslims who are being persecuted!
> 
> But then this happened in China whose relationship is deeper than the oceans, sweeter than honey, stronger than steel and higher than the mountains. How therefore can Pakistan say anything against its big brother? Never mind if it goes against the traditions of Islam. China comes first always and every time!
> 
> So much for hypocrisy!


If we really against the tradition of Islam,how could we build mosques for Rohingyas in Ruili,Yunnan.They are not even our citizens
Rohingyas in Yunnan





















There are 40000 Rohingya refugees in Ruili,Yunnan.Why should we recieve them?it's not our bussiness anyway.But no one say anything good for our humanity to recieve the muslim refugees


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## wolfschanzze

Phukimak said:


> Hai... I'm from Indonesia...
> Your statement about in Muslim state is always respect non Muslim is totally bullshit...
> As an atheis also minorities here... There's discrimination toward us.. ( I'm indonesia born Chinese )
> 
> Here's the example how crazy Muslim can be...


WTF was that? such beasts and they talk about NON- Muslims being safe in Islamic nations?This is the fate of Non-Muslims.

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## Phukimak

There's a lot I can show it to you.. But I think one video can tell you a lot


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## SledgeHammer

Pakistanisage said:


> *Pakistan should mind its own business.....*





Jf Thunder said:


> let KSA knock itself out, im still sure its nothing big, if it was our government would surely lodge some type of protest due to our close relations with China , *WE TRUST YOU CHINA*





FunkyGen said:


> *Pakistan MUST mind it's own business....* Their land THEIR rules!




What other alternatives Pakistan has in this case??

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## Dr.Iftikhar

I already said religion for HUMANITY. this is the real teaching of ISLAM and i am Muslim because of this golden principle.

In a mixed society non-Muslim should be able to operate their restaurants even during Ramadan even if government is Muslim.
Any Muslim govt. if not caring humans is doing against ISLAMIC teachings.

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## notsuperstitious

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> In a Muslim state there is always respect for non-Muslims.



Do you even read what you type? Right now I'm in Dubai and I'm chewing gum and if I go out of the house like this I will be jailed because its Ramadan. I may be dying in the 45 degrees outside, but I can't even drink water. And Dubai is one of the most liberal.

Just because you type something, does not become true.

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## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> Let explain me, why an illness high rank official was not treated in Beijing, but come to death in Urumqi?


Why must be treated in Beijing? why can't come to death while work in Xinjiang? because with illness, so can't work? should stop work, stay in Beijing? In china, do you think no one die of illness because of high working pressure?
Don't forget his job, even with illness, he also may choose to go to Xinjiang, this is not his first time.




BoQ77 said:


> I know. Whoever believe that he died by illness. Even Chinese news report used the word "sacrificed" means this is a KIA case


Some use the word "sacrificed", more not, the offical weibo say he died of illness, so what do you think? the weibo is fake?

Sina Visitor System


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## Phukimak

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> I already said religion for HUMANITY. this is the real teaching of ISLAM and i am Muslim because of this golden principle.
> 
> In a mixed society non-Muslim should be able to operate their restaurants even during Ramadan even if government is Muslim.
> Any Muslim govt. if not caring humans is doing against ISLAMIC teachings.



From an atheis point of view... Every religion teach humanity or way of living...
But in this century, human civilization had a different level, we had education which allow us to used our head..

If the Chinese want the best for their country... No one can forbid them.. Not even religion.. Because this is not 14 century anymore..

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## shuntmaster

Whats is govt. Of Pakistan's stand on this?

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## GeHAC

R.I.P.
The security situation in Urumqi is far better than that in south Xinjiang.Death caused by illness for one's job are also "sacrificial" ,which is common in media.
楼上的几个哥们淡定点，东南亚版还怕恶心么，习惯就好，lol


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## BoQ77

sweetgrape said:


> Why must be treated in Beijing? why can't come to death while work in Xinjiang? because with illness, so can't work? should stop work, stay in Beijing? In china, do you think no one die of illness because of high working pressure?
> Don't forget his job, even with illness, he also may choose to go to Xinjiang, this is not his first time.
> 
> 
> 
> Some use the word "sacrificed", more not, the offical weibo say he died of illness, so what do you think? the weibo is fake?
> 
> Sina Visitor System



You are in doubt too.


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## k7n2d

Phukimak said:


> From an atheis point of view... Every religion teach humanity or way of living...
> But in this century, human civilization had a different level, we had education which allow us to used our head..



i'm indonesian too. and a moslem.
from moslem point of view... i too agree every religion teach humanity and way of living. 
But even in any century, islam teach same way as education to use our head.

your hate toward moslem blind you from your moslem countrymen that also share your view of extremism.

extremists always exist, even among atheists, in any surface of this planet.

so stop spreading hatred because there "are" moslems who combat extremism. our...your...country even have detachment specializes to combat extremists, and they do their task with our blessing, non moslem blessing, my blessing as a moslem.


regards, your fellow countrymen.

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## Jf Thunder

SledgeHammer said:


> What other alternatives Pakistan has in this case??


what other alternatives does anyone have, we could have registered a protest if we wanted to


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## Victory

k7n2d said:


> i'm indonesian too. and a moslem.
> from moslem point of view... i too agree every religion teach humanity and way of living.
> But even in any century, islam teach same way as education to use our head.
> 
> your hate toward moslem blind you from your moslem countrymen that also share your view of extremism.
> 
> extremists always exist, even among atheists, in any surface of this planet.
> 
> so stop spreading hatred because there "are" moslems who combat extremism. our...your...country even have detachment specializes to combat extremists, and they do their task with our blessing, non moslem blessing, my blessing as a moslem.
> 
> 
> regards, your fellow countrymen.


religion is a thing of past, embrace science and logic.

i've witnessed even learned scholars going for jihad lol


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## Jf Thunder

shuntmaster said:


> Whats is govt. Of Pakistan's stand on this?


we are going to shut down the Israeli Embassy in Islamabad

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## Phukimak

Victory said:


> *religion is a thing of past, embrace science and logic.*
> 
> i've witnessed even learned scholars going for jihad lol



that's the point! but sometimes it's hard for people to accept that..

well...when i giving the fact about islam in indonesia, they said that because my hatred toward islam.. the fact is the fact... it's what it's..


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## olcayto

What's up with these İndians popping up on every Muslim related threads?

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## atatwolf

Rechoice said:


> *China's Uighurs claim cultural 'genocide'*
> 
> *Why the Uighur people will continue to reject China's colonial and apartheid rule.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alim A Seytoff is the spokesperson for the World Uyghur Congress and the president of Uyghur American Association based in Washington, DC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When people in the Muslim East and democratic West thought of China, they tended to think of it as a unified, strong, homogeneous and peaceful nation of Chinese people with a long, shared history happily living and advancing under Chinese Communist Party's (CCP) glorious rule.
> 
> In the relaxed post-Cold War political atmosphere, and especially after the West had engaged China, they tended to think of China as if it were a democracy, completely ignoring or subconsciously forgetting that China was still being ruled by one of the most brutal dictatorships in the world. Impressed by the breathtaking state-led development in China over the past 30 years and wanting strongly to enter the huge Chinese market to make millions, many nations and big corporations simply turned a blind eye to China's policies of heavy-handed repression of the Turkic and Muslim Uighur people of East Turkestan, which China renamed "Xinjiang".
> 
> However, the myth of a unified, strong, homogeneous and peaceful China has been increasingly challenged and shattered by the recent series of tragic events in East Turkestan and inner China, shocking both the Chinese people and the international community who were used to believing Beijing's interpretation of the political history of annexed territories and its so-called preferential treatment of the minorities.
> 
> ''The Uyghur people, just like the Tibetans, will simply not continue to accept China's colonial and apartheid rule in their homeland in the 21st century. The ball is in Beijing's court."
> 
> On May 22, Chinese state media reported a bombing at an open market in Urumqi which caused the deaths of 31 people and injured 94. Although no Uighur group claimed responsibility, Beijing blamed the Uighurs. The attack was a latest in a series of attacks, including the Urumqi train station, Kunming train station and Tiananmen Square, allegedly carried out by the Uighurs. The attack on civilians was deplorable.
> 
> While the Chinese government continues to blame the violence on the "three evil forces of terrorism, separatism and religious extremism", many Chinese were brutally awakened to the facade of Beijing's narrative of a "peaceful liberation of Xinjiang" and the"happy dancing and singing" Uighurs in colourful costumes who offer nothing but praise to China's colonial rule in East Turkestan.
> 
> The bad blood between the Chinese state and Uighur people didn't begin yesterday. It began when Chinese communist forces led by General Wang Zhen occupied the East Turkestan Republic in October 1949 with the support of the Soviet Union and pacified the resistant Uighur people through public executions and massacres. Tens of thousands of Uighurs were killed by Wang's troops in communist China's conquest of East Turkestan.
> 
> *Promises of self-rule*
> 
> Although Chinese communists initially promised self-rule and even independence for non-Chinese people, it soon reneged on its promise after annexation and established the "Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region" in 1955. Contrary to Beijing's claims that "Xinjiang has been an inalienable part of China since ancient times", Xinjiang in Chinese literally means "New Territory".
> 
> The name "Xinjiang" is a direct insult heaped upon the indigenous Uighur people who have lived there for thousands of years while the use of "East Turkestan" by Uighurs is criminalised. The Uighur people, like the Tibetans and Mongols, have never enjoyed autonomy in their so-called Autonomous Region because all the political, military, police and economic decision-making powers are in the hands of Chinese officials. Uighurs at all government levels serve as figureheads, including the regional chairman.
> 
> Since China annexed East Turkestan, the relationship between the Chinese state and the indigenous Uighurs has been one of coloniser and colonised. In order to control the "New Territory", China ruthlessly suppressed any sign of Uighur unrest and transferred millions of loyal Chinese settlers into East Turkestan, providing them with jobs, housing, bank loans and economic opportunities denied to Uighurs.
> 
> At the same time, Chinese state corporations exploited the abundant natural resources of East Turkestan and transferred them to the Chinese motherland, leaving nothing to the Uighurs. While East Turkestan which is roughly the size of Iran possesses huge reserves of natural gas, oil, gold, uranium, coal and other minerals, the living standard of Uighurs is one of the lowest in China. The Uighur population in East Turkestan, which was nearly 90 percent in 1949, is now only 45 percent, while the Chinese population grew disproportionately due to state-sponsored mass settlement from around six percent in 1953 to the current 40 percent (excluding the Chinese military, seasonal workers and floating population). Many Uighurs believe Chinese are already a majority since Beijing continues to encourage their settlement.
> 
> The Uighur resentment toward Chinese rule comes from their loss of independence, failure to master and change their political destiny, and the sense of being overwhelmed by millions of Chinese settlers, who threaten their very existence as an historic, sovereign, and indigenous majority in their homeland of East Turkestan. They also resent the current Chinese colonial and apartheid rule, the systematic repression of Uighur people since 1949 and the reframing of its wholesale attack on the Uighurs as a fight against "Islamic terrorism" since 9/11.
> 
> *Cultural 'genocide'*
> 
> What is more, China tested 45 nuclear devices, both under and above ground, between 1964 and 1996 in East Turkestan, polluting air, water, land, and slowly killing both people and livestock due to the effects of radiation. Uighur resentment toward Chinese rule was further reinforced by China's current policies of cultural "genocide" on Uighur identity, culture, religious beliefs and practices, in addition to Chinese soldiers' extrajudicial and indiscriminate killings of Uighur men, women and children.
> 
> The Uighurs feel powerless to defend their historic homeland, their way of life, identity, culture, language and religion from Beijing's ever-intensifying onslaught and Chinese settlers appropriating everything that once belonged rightfully to them. When moderate Uighurs such as Professor Ilham Tohti and linguist Abduweli Ayup who had tried to work within the Chinese system were denounced and arrested, some then took matters into their hands out of desperation and committed horrific acts of political violence against not only Chinese security forces, but also against settlers.
> 
> Such attacks were immediately taken advantage of by Beijing to skillfully spin the narrative that it faced a "terrorist threat from Muslim Uighurs" and "China was also a victim of terrorism" in order to win public opinion both in China and the world and silence international criticism of its subsequent heavy-handed repression. Regardless of how China spins the story, the vast majority of Uighurs are peaceful and hoping for a peaceful change. Our repeated calls for a peaceful dialogue to resolve the political situation have fallen on deaf ears in Beijing. We believe a peaceful resolution of the East Turkestan issue is in the interest of both sides and the vicious cycle of violence has proven to be not a solution at all.
> 
> The Chinese government must understand that East Turkestan cannot be a land of opportunity and prosperity for the colonising Chinese settlers and a land of death and destruction for the indigenous Uighur people. Simply put, Beijing cannot maintain political stability or create ethnic harmony in East Turkestan by pointing a gun at every Uighur's head and fight the so-called three evil forces by treating all Uighurs as terror suspects or enemies of the Chinese state.
> 
> China has a clear choice - either treat the Uighur people as genuine Chinese citizens by honouring China's constitution and Regional Ethnic Autonomy Laws, or treat them as non-Chinese citizens and allow them self-determination to pursue their own political future. The Uighur people, just like the Tibetans, will simply continue to reject China's colonial and apartheid rule in their homeland in the 21st century.
> 
> The ball is in Beijing's court. If China continues to resist choosing either, but rather applies the same old failing method of heavy-handed repression on the one hand and forcible assimilation on the other, then it only means China has chosen war with all Uighurs and China will eventually turn its "New Territory" into its own Palestine.
> 
> _*Alim A Seytoff is the spokesperson for the World Uyghur Congress and the president of Uyghur American Association based in Washington, DC.*_
> 
> *The views expressed in this article are the author's own and do not necessarily reflect Al Jazeera's editorial policy.*
> 
> China's Uighurs claim cultural 'genocide' - Opinion - Al Jazeera English


Sooner or later all civilized countries will implement boycot on China.

Israel is getting a lot of fuss about treatment of Palestinians, what is different about uighur situation?


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## k7n2d

Victory said:


> religion is a thing of past, embrace science and logic.
> 
> i've witnessed even learned scholars going for jihad lol



do the jihadist scholars represents all moslem? i consider my self a scholar, i did pesantren/madrassa in my youth, but i don't share todays jihadist view. i don't want to be trapped in some unknown people's jihad. money, power, and bullcrap nowadays...



Phukimak said:


> that's the point! but sometimes it's hard for people to accept that..
> 
> well...when i giving the fact about islam in indonesia, they said that because my hatred toward islam.. the fact is the fact... it's what it's..



naah... same as you, i didn't denied any extremism that happened in our country. fact is a fact, it's what it's, just like you said 

anyway i believe i'm off topic right now. sorry, i'll not continue this.

btw, maybe as to compensate, moslem in china should try work as hard as their non moslem chinese during fasting. and prove that fasting isn't an obstacle. imho.

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## Lux de Veritas

atatwolf said:


> Sooner or later all civilized countries will implement boycot on China.
> 
> Israel is getting a lot of fuss about treatment of Palestinians, what is different about uighur situation?



Your kurd is also ranting.

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## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> You are in doubt too.


Of course, I doubt, but from your comments, seems you are sure he is killed by someone, did you?


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## Victory

k7n2d said:


> do the jihadist scholars represents all moslem? i consider my self a scholar, i did pesantren/madrassa in my youth, but i don't share todays jihadist view. i don't want to be trapped in some unknown people's jihad. money, power, and bullcrap nowadays...


That's good if you actually think that way


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## GeHAC

atatwolf said:


> Sooner or later all civilized countries will implement boycot on China.
> 
> Israel is getting a lot of fuss about treatment of Palestinians, what is different about uighur situation?


DO YOU REALLY KNOW ABOUT THE UIGHUR SITUATION?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Lux de Veritas said:


> Your kurd is also ranting.


 
This world is like a cooking pot, let see who shall be the first to get cooked.


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## KingMamba

olcayto said:


> What's up with these İndians popping up on every Muslim related threads?



For them such threads is an opportunity to score some points.

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## olcayto

KingMamba said:


> For them such threads is an opportunity to score some points.



İt's funny though, especially when they try to preach civlization and modernity towards Muslims with out first looking at them selves 
İ actually find it quite hilarious.

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## amitkriit

This must go beyond mere protests. Muslim world must declare global Jihad against the Religious Oppression and Cultural Genocide of Muslims (*and now Christians*) in China. This is a state-sponsored pogrom worse than the Tienanmen Massacre.

China's Christians fear new persecution after latest wave of church demolitions | World news | Guardian Weekly



olcayto said:


> İt's funny though, especially when they try to preach civlization and modernity towards Muslims with out first looking at them selves
> İ actually find it quite hilarious.



Are Chinese Muslims lesser Muslims? What happened to Muslim Brotherhood and stuff?

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## BoQ77

The govt put his destiny in Xinjiang.


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## sahaliyan

amitkriit said:


> This must go beyond mere protests. Muslim world must declare global Jihad against the Religious Oppression and Cultural Genocide of Muslims (*and now Christians*) in China. This is a state-sponsored pogrom worse than the Tienanmen Massacre.
> 
> China's Christians fear new persecution after latest wave of church demolitions | World news | Guardian Weekly
> 
> 
> 
> Are Chinese Muslims lesser Muslims? What happened to Muslim Brotherhood and stuff?


What about China built the mosque for Rohingyas?lol


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## amitkriit

sahaliyan said:


> What about China built the mosque for Rohingyas?lol



Are the Muslims from Xinxiang lesser Muslims than Rohingyas?


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## mahesh.

sahaliyan said:


> What about China built the mosque for Rohingyas?lol


How does that justify ban on Ramadan fasting.

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## sahaliyan

amitkriit said:


> Are the Muslims from Xinxiang lesser Muslims than Rohingyas?


Then you have more than 24300 mosques in Xinjiang,compare with islamic countries,there are only 17000 mosques in Egypt,and they have more people than Xinjiang



mahesh. said:


> How does that justify ban on Ramadan fasting.


I never said the ban is the right thing,what I point out is we don't have an anti-muslim stance


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## American Pakistani

olcayto said:


> What's up with these İndians popping up on every Muslim related threads?



The wish of creating rift between Muslims & World powers. Indians have deep hatred for Muslims but they are smart...they will act as your well wisher but in reality they will wish that you fight...in this case Muslims vs China...in other cases Muslims vs US or Muslims vs Britain or Muslims vs Russia.

@Topic I hope the issue between China & Muslims is peacefully solved.

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## amitkriit

sahaliyan said:


> Then you have more than 24300 mosques in Xinjiang,compare with islamic countries,there are only 17000 mosques in Egypt,and they have more people than Xinjiang
> 
> 
> I never said the ban is the right thing,what I point out is we don't have an anti-muslim stance



You mean to say that China is correct in how it is dealing with the Muslims just because there are so many mosques in Xinxiang?


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## sahaliyan

amitkriit said:


> You mean to say that China is correct in how it is dealing with the Muslims just because there are so many mosques in Xinxiang?


I already said very clearly I against this ban(to the CCP members,the officials,the students)


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## wise_owl

Muslim oil rich countries should impose sanctions on China

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## mahesh.

sahaliyan said:


> Then you have more than 24300 mosques in Xinjiang,compare with islamic countries,there are only 17000 mosques in Egypt,and they have more people than Xinjiang
> 
> 
> I never said the ban is the right thing,what I point out is we don't have an anti-muslim stance


No one is saying china is anti-muslim. But it is denying religious freedom to its citizens.

Personally I side with China in this case. Nothing is more important than country,

But there should be honest confession from all the sides.
Chine- Citizens do not enjoy personal freedom, and state interferes in every matter.
Pakistan- It is hypocrite in this matter. their policies are made in interest of country rather than religion.
India- We do not have balls(friking Democracy) like China to implement like these.


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## qwerrty

cry me a huang he river

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## Jf Thunder

amitkriit said:


> This must go beyond mere protests. Muslim world must declare global Jihad against the Religious Oppression and Cultural Genocide of Muslims (*and now Christians*) in China. This is a state-sponsored pogrom worse than the Tienanmen Massacre.
> 
> China's Christians fear new persecution after latest wave of church demolitions | World news | Guardian Weekly
> 
> 
> 
> Are Chinese Muslims lesser Muslims? What happened to Muslim Brotherhood and stuff?


Muslim brotherhood died the day when other Muslims started to distrust each other


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## UKBengali

Lol at trying to claim that fasting has a major effect in work performance in office jobs. At the most it would be neglible that it would not be worth worrying about.

Now if we were talking about manual labour then it would be different.

Like I said before, I think dont that the Chinese have really grasped just how damaging to their interests a policy like this can be and hope they reconsider.


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## sweetgrape

BoQ77 said:


> The govt put his destiny in Xinjiang.


Have to say, if you don't show you flag, I would think you are from western, hehe.

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## Phukimak

sweetgrape said:


> Have to say, if you don't show you flag, I would think you are from western, hehe.


i dont think so.. western people a lot smarter than him...

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## Sam.

olcayto said:


> What's up with these İndians popping up on every Muslim related threads?



We have the second largest Muslim population in the earth and they are all Indians and pretty much care about Islam like other Muslims.So don't preach us where we can raise our voice or not

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## olcayto

Sam. said:


> We have the second largest Muslim population in the earth and they are all Indians and pretty much care about Islam like other Muslims.So don't preach us where we can raise our voice or not



İ assume people are misjudging me. i actually am against these policies against Uyghurs, not only because they are Muslims, but also because they are my kin.

What İ don't understand are some İndians talking about being civilized, modern and at the same time support these policies of China.

İ guess as long as the concerned ones are Muslims, all these preaching about morals and human rights go down the toilet, oops İ mean the streets.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang photo exhibition and narratives of insiders*

Xinhua






Uyghur musicians perform at the photo exhibition _Xinjiang, an Untold Story_, hosted by the Global Times in Beijing on July 4. Photo: Li Hao/GT

Editor's Note:*The Global Times hosted the photo exhibition Xinjiang, an Untold Story last Friday and invited Uyghur and other guest speakers to the event to tell their stories, with two dozen diplomats and reporters from leading news media from home and abroad in attendance. Since the July 5 riot in 2009, in which many Han as well as Uyghurs were killed in Urumqi, the public has been getting reports from the media about terrorism acts. People might have formed stereotypes about Uyghur people. The Global Times hopes to build understanding between the general public and the Xinjiangers, to present a more complete picture of the region.*





Kurbanjan Samat, photographer and documentary filmmaker

*Kurbanjan Samat*

Photographer and documentary filmmaker

Photos can give a true picture of Xinjiang. My father was recently ill and received surgery in a hospital in Urumqi. I spent a week taking care of him there. During that period, using my mobile phone, I chose a spot in the hospital and captured a series photos of people waiting at the same place over time. Whether they were Uyghur, Han, Hui or Kazak, all of them shared a similar wish, to live a healthy life. This is a true national unity.

I've interviewed about 120 people and got in touch with about 400. Some of these people match the stereotypes the public may have of Xinjiang, people who sell barbeque, pancakes, fruits, or own restaurants. Others are white-collar workers, managers, and government civil servants. 

Within half a year, I felt like I went through college again. I saw my past in every interviewee's story, and am inspired by their stories. Everybody met different difficulties. These problems actually don't exist because of their ethnicity, but are rather questions that arise as the country and society develop.

But what touched me is nobody complained or became extreme because of these issues, they all showed understanding. This is what I and every interviewee want this society to see, every Xinjianger is growing as the country is developing, everybody is working hard and hoping to live in a peaceful and harmonious society, to live for our dreams, our goals and for a better livelihood.





Eliyar Eziz, assistant secretary general of Tree of Love, which helps children in Xinjiang

*Eliyar Eziz*

Assistant secretary general of Tree of Love, which helps children in Xinjiang 

There has never been a charity organization that serves the children in Xinjiang. We wanted to fill that void and registered one. Right now we are working on shooting very short films about children in Xinjiang and donating winter clothes to poor areas in Xinjiang. We were trained by a US-based organization that provides aid to schools, and have started a financial aid program for school children in Xinjiang as well. 

At first, I thought the financial aid could only help the children for a couple of years. I wondered whether it could change their lives, help them go to college and escape from poverty-stricken areas until one day I talked with another charity worker. She told me that through our help, the children who would've dropped out after middle school made it through high school and started their lives at a higher level. They have a different education and way of thinking than before. 

They don't have to be college students or become high government officials, but they can be better parents and better raise their children. The local education level can slowly increase that way. There might be better future outcomes because of our help, so we don't have to ask for too much. And this is why I've persisted this long on the project.





Lin Meilian, Global Times reporter

*Lin Meilian*

Global Times reporter

The Uyghurs are very open, good at singing, playing guitar and dancing. Some Uyghur youth play guitars and sing quietly at late night. Some Uyghurs even carry guitars on their backs and play as they drink and eat barbeque. Once I was eating with some Uyghurs, who started singing and dancing in the middle of the meal. In some ways, they're open, simple and happy. They are not restricted in what they do and what they say.

*The first time I went to Xinjiang was a year after the July 5 incident in 2009. Back then, Urumqi was divided by an invisible line into south and north. The Han are in the north and the Uyghurs in the south. I was the only Han on the streets around the bazaar area in the south and the Uyghurs looked at me curiously. Even the taxi driver wouldn't drop me off where Uyghurs gathered. But there were policemen patrolling all over the streets.*

Every Xinjiang story has three versions, the Uyghur version, the Han version, and the true version. I hope everybody can go to Xinjiang and see for themselves their own versions of the story.





Abdulhabir Muhammad, chief operating officer of Beijing Hold International Educational Consulting, a startup that provides services to young people wanting to study abroad

*Abdulhabir Muhammad*

Chief operating officer of Beijing Hold International Educational Consulting, a startup that provides services to young people wanting to study abroad 

I'm from a village in the Aksu prefecture in Xinjiang. In my hometown, if you don't work hard you can only be a farmer when you grow up.

The people in our region are very poor. We aren't afraid of poor parents. We are just afraid if you are poor, you can't set an example to your children.

Our educational fund provides scholarships to graduate students from our region. If they want to obtain a master's degree, we will provide all the tuition, that's our dream. If there was a fund like this in every city in the country, the education in not just Xinjiang but the whole world could be improved.

As for me, I hope more people can go abroad through the help of our educational fund. If someone's hungry, you buy him a meal, but he will still be hungry the next day. 

But if you help them through education, this help will last. 

We want the world to see that we are more than just barbeque street vendors. 

There are many elites from Xinjiang, who are working in investment banks, information technology, sports and international trade. We want the world to see a different Uyghur generation.





Alip Yakup, owner of public account on Weibo, "Xinjianger in Beijing," which introduces Xinjiang to the public

*Alip Yakup*

Owner of public account on Weibo, "Xinjianger in Beijing," which introduces Xinjiang to the public 

I wanted to do something for my home, and I have found Weibo a powerful platform to spread Xinjiang's scenery and culture. People outside of Xinjiang tend to have misunderstandings about the region and can only get to know the region through TV reports. It's hard for them to meet people from Xinjiang. We hope to help people understand Xinjiang better this way. 

Many of my friends from Xinjiang who are working in big cities introduce information about their home to others, just as I am doing. But I also want to ask, why are we doing the work? It should've been done by the media.

*I was disappointed after the July 5 incident. Many people paid attention to Xinjiang and there were many reports at first. But after a couple of months, people's attention was diverted to other matters, because there were hardly any in-depth reports about Xinjiang. We hope there can be more complete reports on Xinjiang, about all dimensions, such as Uyghurs who live in cities, who have modern lives. Not just reports on ethnic culture.*

When I get off work, I write a few Weibo posts about Xinjiang. And some friends can't imagine that's what Xinjiang is like. Their whole knowledge of the region comes from others. I hope the media will report about Xinjiang in more in-depth ways. One-sided reports can only increase the bias people outside the region will have. 





Yao Sicheng, photographer

*Yao Sicheng*

Photographer 

Xinjiang is a beautiful place, in terms of its scenery, culture and its long history. It impressed photographers like us deeply.

As photographers, we look at Xinjiang with an outsider's eyes and we hope we can be granted the opportunity of photographing Xinjiang's beauty in more thorough ways. 

While we were shooting, we also got in touch with an enthusiastic and friendly group of people. 

So as photographers, we hope there can be locally organized trips to capture Xinjiang's culture and scenery on film for better publicity.





Cui Meng, Global Times photographer

*Cui Meng*

Global Times photographer 

*One night [a policeman I photographed in Urumqi during a reporting trip] came to me around 2 am and asked whether he could have a talk with me. I said yes. Then he drove me miles outside the city, up a hill, parked the car and started telling me his story, nonstop for two hours. He told me how stressful his job was, saying he's working all the time. His wife is pregnant, but he has asked her to bring his uniform on the day of labor [as a memento to remind her of him], in case he can't make it due to work. "I only wanted to get those words out, because they've been bottled inside for so long," he told me.*

He's only one representative of the policemen in Xinjiang. There are also many of them in the south of Xinjiang, where many terrorism attacks happened. Suddenly I felt more secure.

After I came back to Beijing, many people asked me whether I was scared in Xinjiang. I always told them that there's a group of people there who are sticking to their own posts, to make sure people in all ethnic groups are safe. I feel that Xinjiang is safe, because I have faith in them.

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## TaiShang

*Marching on in Xinjiang*

Global Times

*Xinjiang private firms banking on opportunities along the Silk Road*




_Interior of the Hualing market Photo: Liang Fei/GT_





_A Hualing market in Urumqi. Photo: Liang Fei/GT_

As we took a taxi ride to the headquarters of the Xinjiang Hualing Industry and Trade (Group) Co in Urumqi last week, our taxi driver asked if we were about to have a job interview at the company.

"Well, Hualing is a big company. Many young people want to work there," the taxi driver reasoned after we told him no.

*Our driver's statement came as no surprise as the privately-owned Hualing Group is one of the numerous companies in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region that have benefited from the economic ties between the region and the countries along the ancient Silk Road. *

Founded in 1988, the Hualing Group was originally a small company trading in daily necessities, but now Hualing markets have become important hubs in Xinjiang for bringing Chinese goods to other Eurasia countries.

The company currently operates four major wholesale markets in Xinjiang, selling a variety of goods ranging from home appliances, building materials, furniture to jewelry. 

*Geo-advantageLocated in Northwest China, Xinjiang shares borders with eight countries including Russia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Pakistan and India. This geographical location has made it an important gateway connecting China, Central Asia and Eastern Europe.*

*Ma Jie, a professor at the Xinjiang University of Finance and Economics, noted that the economies of Central Asian countries are a great fit for China. "Central Asian countries rely on heavy industries especially in the energy sector, but China has the light industry goods they need." *

*"Xinjiang's location may not be as favorable as that of east coast provinces, but we have a natural geographic advantage when it comes to the Central Asian and Eastern European market," Gao Jianmin, director of the Hualing Group, told the Global Times.*

*This natural advantage has motivated the private sector in Xinjiang to take the lead in promoting trade ties between China and other Eurasia countries.*

In 2007, the Hualing Group started to move westward, investing in the lumber and mining sectors in the former Soviet Union country of Georgia. Driven by the country's business potential, two years later the company signed an agreement to build a Free Industrial Zone in Kutaisi, the second-largest city in Georgia, aiming to attract Chinese manufacturers.

In 2012, the group expanded its investment in the country and started to build the Hualing International Special Economic Zone in the capital city of Tbilisi, which it hopes will bring in more Chinese traders and manufacturers. 

That same year, the company acquired a local commercial bank to provide financial services to the growing number of Chinese merchants there. Now Hualing has become the largest Chinese investor in the country.

*The company is quite upbeat about investment in Georgia, as it believes this will help Chinese companies reach further into the European market - with smaller logistics costs and less trade barriers. *

*"It won't be a problem for us to attract Chinese investors to our industrial zones in Georgia, especially after the government's initiative to push the development of the Silk Road Economic Belt," Gao said.*

Construction of the group's industrial zone has already finished and it is expected to begin operations soon. Meanwhile a market within the International Special Economic Zone in Tbilisi was opened on June 21.

*"The government's push to develop the Silk Road Economic Belt is in accordance with Hualing's own strategy, which will definitely help boost our development," said Zhang Jun, Hualing general manager.*

In Kazakhstan, the privately owned Xinjiang Sanbao Industry Group is also building an industrial park for potential Chinese manufacturers. Looking to attract chemical and high-tech companies from China, construction is expected to start within the year.

*Besides industrial goods, development of the economic belt may also help boost the export of Xinjiang's specialty products. *

*For example, Xinjiang Top Agricultural Public Ltd has been exporting fragrant pears, which only grow in the city of Korla in Xinjiang, to markets in the US, Canada and even some South American countries, but its ambitions go far beyond these markets.*

*"I hope that development of the Silk Road Economic Belt can also help us nudge into the European market," Chu Yunxin, the company's chairman, told the Global Times, adding that the company wants to set up offices in the land ports of Horgos and Alataw - two important gateways in Xinjiang leading into Kazakhstan. *

*Dynamic private sector*

*Ma noted that private firms have shown greater vitality in trade and investment in Central Asia as well as Eastern Europe because they are more flexible in dealing with the complicated investment environment in the region, compared with larger State-owned enterprises.*

*In 2013, private firms in Xinjiang reported a total trade volume of $20.4 billion, up 11.4 percent year-on-year and accounting for 73.9 percent of the region's total trade volume. Meanwhile, private traders' contribution to total trade volume grew to 83.8 percent in the first five months of this year, according to data from the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region's Department of Commerce. *

*Huang Pingchao, a director at Xinjiang's Department of Commerce, told the Global Times that among the 55 Xinjiang companies that reported trade volume higher than $100 million in 2013, 44 are privately owned. *

Experts note that the private sector plays an important role in bringing vitality to the local economy and that a flourishing private sector is sure to help bring stability as it contributes to job creation.

*By the end of 2013, the private sector in Xinjiang accounted for 80 percent of jobs in the region, the Xinjiang Daily reported in April.*

*Chu said that his company cooperates with some 3,500 local families, mostly Uyghur families, to produce pears for the company.*

*"One mu (0.067 hectare) of fragrant pear orchards can provide more than 10,000 yuan ($1,601) of annual income per family," said Chu, adding that this income is significant for families in Xinjiang, especially those living in the less-developed southern region.*

However, experts note that although private companies have shown great vitality in trading with bordering countries, they are still weak in manufacturing.

*Huang noted that currently some 80 percent of the goods exported from Xinjiang are produced in other provinces and that only around 50 percent of imported goods are processed in Xinjiang.*

*However, the manufacturing sector in Xinjiang should see a boost after the economic belt is established, Huang said, adding that multiple industrial parks are also being built to lure manufacturers to the region.*

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## Götterdämmerung

Quite rich this coming from Saudi Arabia where they even have this:






Oh yeah, not only discrimination against non-Muslims, but the rampant racism amongst Muslims that happens in Arabia and other parts of the Muslim world. So much for the so called Ummah. LOL

*From Bangladesh to Darfur: Racism among Muslims*
From Bangladesh to Darfur: Racism among Muslims

There are tons of articles in the web about this topic.

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## senheiser

wise_owl said:


> Muslim oil rich countries should impose sanctions on China


china should replace its arab oil to russian and venzuelian oil

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## notsuperstitious

olcayto said:


> İ assume people are misjudging me. i actually am against these policies against Uyghurs, not only because they are Muslims, but also because they are my kin.
> 
> What İ don't understand are some İndians talking about being civilized, modern and at the same time support these policies of China.
> 
> İ guess as long as the concerned ones are Muslims, all these preaching about morals and human rights go down the toilet, oops İ mean the streets.



Who is supporting such practices? We even have Muslims in India following Sharia for personal matters.

The only agenda Indians have here is to expose Pakistani hypocrisy, as Pakistanis show lot of concern for Indian muslims (although literally 100 times more muslims die in Pakistan) but since china is Pakistan's benefactor, they simply ignore what happens in China. You may be misreading this indian agenda as something else.

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## wise_owl

senheiser said:


> china should replace its arab oil to russian and venzuelian oil



Russia, Venezuela with respect to Muslim nations..... You do the maths....

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## Desert Fox

Rahul9090 said:


> CAIRO – A Chinese ban on Ramadan fasting for uighur Muslims in the Muslim-majority northwest district of Xinjiang has sparked protests from *Saudis* and expatriates who demanded a boycott of Chinese products. Rejecting the Chinese restrictions on their fellow Muslims, *Saudis* urged a Muslim unity to take political and economic actions against China for its oppressive policy. Others urged *Saudi Arabia* and other OIC countries to support Muslim minorities in China and elsewhere. “Our government took strong action against the Netherlands when a rightwing politician in the country abused Islam and the Saudi flag. We should take similar action against China if they do not review their anti-Muslim stance,” Fuad Tawfik, a *Saudi engineer*, told Arab News.
> Muslims Protest China’s Ramadan Ban - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net



Was there really a mass protest against Chinese gov.t in Saudi Arabia and Egypt or is this just another hype?? @al-Hasani @JUBA @Arabian Legend @Arabian Knight @Mahmoud_EGY


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## KingMamba

Sam. said:


> We have the second largest Muslim population in the earth and they are all Indians and pretty much care about Islam like other Muslims.So don't preach us where we can raise our voice or not



Unless you are one of those Muslims, then no your input means nothing. Btw Pakistan has the second most Muslims on the planet.


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## Desert Fox

xunzi said:


> This is something we don't understand as well. It seems we have no sovereign rights whatsoever to conduct our internal government policy. Do we need to ask our Muslim friends about the various treatment of non-Muslim? Nope that is not our style and we have no interest in bugging into other country internal affair. Likewise, we ask others to respect us. Like I recommend, if they don't like that policy, they can seek other jobs or request to stay at home during that month. We can't afford having our government officials not performing their best duty due to various religious function that is *detrimental to their mental and physical health.*


Don't Chinese Buddhists also fast??


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## Nan Yang

Lux de Veritas said:


> This ban is a stupid policy. Come and learn from Singapore. You guys have merely 10 million Uyghurs vs 1.3 billion Han and got so much problem.
> 
> Singapore has just 2.5 million Chinese citizen surrounded by 250 million Islamist within and without. We have religion and racial harmony.



Singapore policy on minority is to dilute concentration of Malays areas to prevent ghettos. Using public housing allocation they spread all the Malay population throughout the city state so there is now no so call "Malay" areas. There are also restrictions like no loud speakers calling for prayers.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Desert Fox said:


> Was there really a mass protest against Chinese gov.t in Saudi Arabia and Egypt or is this just another hype?? @al-Hasani @JUBA @Arabian Legend @Arabian Knight @Mahmoud_EGY


nothing in Egypt

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## FaujHistorian

Desert Fox said:


> Was there really a mass protest against Chinese gov.t in Saudi Arabia and Egypt or is this just another hype?? @al-Hasani @JUBA @Arabian Legend @Arabian Knight @Mahmoud_EGY



Imagine if you replace chinese gov with US gov. 

They you have real protests, killings and burnings. 

But for China?

it is all a storm in a tea-cup. For now.

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## Götterdämmerung

FaujHistorian said:


> Imagine if you replace chinese gov with US gov.
> 
> They you have real protests, killings and burnings.
> 
> But for China?
> 
> it is all a storm in a tea-cup. For now.



The Chinese gov. didn't invade two souvereign Muslim majority countries and killing hundreds thousands of Muslims either. There are simply no comparisons.

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## senheiser

wise_owl said:


> Russia, Venezuela with respect to Muslim nations..... You do the maths....


go look at venezulas and russias massive reserves you do the math.

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## Jlaw

Lux de Veritas said:


> This ban is a stupid policy. Come and learn from Singapore. You guys have merely 10 million Uyghurs vs 1.3 billion Han and got so much problem.
> 
> Singapore has just 2.5 million Chinese citizen surrounded by 250 million Islamist within and without. We have religion and* racial harmony.*



But in the past you posted news about the majority of local Singaporeans are angry with foreigners, etc? Why change of heart?

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## FaujHistorian

Götterdämmerung said:


> The Chinese gov. didn't invade two souvereign Muslim majority countries and killing hundreds thousands of Muslims either. There are simply no comparisons.



Arab/Muslim "love" for USA predates Iraq/Agh fiasco. 

Read how US marines and Muslim tribes fought in West African Muslim run ports/areas. This happened few centuries ago.

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## shuntmaster

Jf Thunder said:


> we are going to shut down the Israeli Embassy in Islamabad


Does Islamabad have Israeli Embassy??

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## BoQ77

sweetgrape said:


> Have to say, if you don't show you flag, I would think you are from western, hehe.



I show my proper flag, and I have an unique account only. I joined PDF only to share my own point of view, not a funded guy.
Let's share truly thinking, feeling. 

I want to know truly thinking of you, your friend, Chinese people. 

Before visit Islamic countries, I have some different thinkings. Visit and share with others bring more truly knowledge to me.


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## Lux de Veritas

Jlaw said:


> But in the past you posted news about the majority of local Singaporeans are angry with foreigners, etc? Why change of heart?



There is no change of heart. Singaporeans Chinese are foreigners in Muslim land and they always think we are Israel of East.

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## boomslang

As Axel so famously said....'Welcome to the jungle, China. You're gonna die'!!!

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## shuntmaster

*Pakistan mum on Chinese ban on Ramadan fasting*
Published: Sunday, 06 July 2014 14:32



ISLAMABAD: In a test case of diplomacy for Pakistan, which has always spoken out in support of Muslims the world over, it is staying clear of interference in the situation in the Chinese Muslim province of Xinjiang, where the Chinese Communist Party has reportedly placed restrictions on fasting especially on students and teachers for health reasons during the holy month of Ramadan.

Taking an admittedly uncharacteristic neutral position on the issue, Tasneem Aslam, the spokesperson at Pakistan Foreign Office said, “I have no confirmation that the media reports are true. I have no comments on speculative reports.”

The News reports that this is indeed a delicate and tricky issue for Islamabad which is Beijing’s closest ally. While always raising its voice in support of Muslims being suppressed around the globe, this is a major test for Pakistan whether to ignore or comment on this government ban, which it also sees as an internal matter of China.

So far, the ban on fasting appears to be targeting only students and teachers, as Islam is practiced in Xinjiang, an area where tensions between the government and Muslim population have occurred from time to time.

Citing health worries, a statement on the website of the “Number 3 Grade School” in Ruoqiang County in Xinjiang, said, “No teacher can participate in religious activities, instil religious thoughts in students or coerce students into religious activities.”

The news agency reported that cities in Xinjiang had set up news portals saying that fasting was detrimental to the physical well-being of young students, and have also called in retired teachers to stand guard at mosques in order to prevent students from entering.

China has thus far had a policy of non-interference as regards other countries, and sensitive issues with Pakistan have always been discussed behind closed doors. It is only lately that the local administration of Xinjiang has publicly taken issue with Pakistan for harbouring militants who travel from its Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) areas to strike inside Xinjiang.

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## FaujHistorian

shuntmaster said:


> *Pakistan mum on Chinese ban on Ramadan fasting*
> Published: Sunday, 06 July 2014 14:32
> 
> 
> 
> ISLAMABAD: In a test case of diplomacy for Pakistan, which has always spoken out in support of Muslims the world over, it is staying clear of interference in the situation in the Chinese Muslim province of Xinjiang, where the Chinese Communist Party has reportedly placed restrictions on fasting especially on students and teachers for health reasons during the holy month of Ramadan.
> 
> Taking an admittedly uncharacteristic neutral position on the issue, Tasneem Aslam, the spokesperson at Pakistan Foreign Office said, “I have no confirmation that the media reports are true. I have no comments on speculative reports.”
> 
> The News reports that this is indeed a delicate and tricky issue for Islamabad which is Beijing’s closest ally. While always raising its voice in support of Muslims being suppressed around the globe, this is a major test for Pakistan whether to ignore or comment on this government ban, which it also sees as an internal matter of China.
> 
> So far, the ban on fasting appears to be targeting only students and teachers, as Islam is practiced in Xinjiang, an area where tensions between the government and Muslim population have occurred from time to time.
> 
> Citing health worries, a statement on the website of the “Number 3 Grade School” in Ruoqiang County in Xinjiang, said, “No teacher can participate in religious activities, instil religious thoughts in students or coerce students into religious activities.”
> 
> The news agency reported that cities in Xinjiang had set up news portals saying that fasting was detrimental to the physical well-being of young students, and have also called in retired teachers to stand guard at mosques in order to prevent students from entering.
> 
> China has thus far had a policy of non-interference as regards other countries, and sensitive issues with Pakistan have always been discussed behind closed doors. It is only lately that the local administration of Xinjiang has publicly taken issue with Pakistan for harbouring militants who travel from its Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) areas to strike inside Xinjiang.




yaar, all these things are selective. 

Would you as an Indian origin person, like for Pakistan to protest?

Just curious,.


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## shuntmaster

*Breaking up with China?*
By Rafia Zakaria





A Chinese Muslim man fans himself as he waits for the time to break his fast. -Photo by AP

*It has been a long-standing love affair and there are numbers to prove it*.

According to a Pew Research Center survey done just last year, *the only country that loves China more than China itself, is Pakistan.* Now, suddenly, there is news that threatens to fray these bonds of affection.

According to news reports, the Chinese Communist Party which has long placed restrictions on fasting in the Chinese Muslim province of Xinjiang has issued a ban on fasting. A Government website announced that all teachers, all students, and all civil servants would be banned from fasting in the month of Ramazan.

The ban is a sudden and severe curb on religious freedom in a province already often beleaguered by religious clashes and political unrest.

In one part of the region, retired school teachers were posted outside mosques to prevent students from entering the premises. In another, a school website announced that fasting could not be permitted because it was detrimental to student health.

The Bureau of Forestry in Xinjiang’s Zhaosu County held an event the day before Ramazan began in which party affiliates signed pledges saying that they and their family members would desist from fasting.

A weather bureau in the Hotan area of the province went even further announcing on its website that all Muslim employees would be required to sign a letter saying that they would not be fasting.

China does not have a stellar record of respecting the rights of minority religions. But this new ban and its accompanying restrictions are the most blatant curb on the freedom to practice religion seen in the country in recent days.

Back in 2012: '_China discourages fasting for Uighur Muslims'_

At the same time,* there is China’s long record of aid and alliance with Pakistan.*

Not only has China been a longtime supporter of Pakistan’s nuclear program, it has recently also pledged to help bolster Pakistan’s civilian nuclear power capacity over the next five years. This includes the construction of a 2200MW nuclear power complex in Karachi that is forecasted to cost over 10 billion dollars.

China is also Pakistan’s largest supplier of military equipment and Beijing operates the strategic port of Gwadar in the Balochistan province.

On the civilian end, the two countries enjoy a free trade agreement, an accord signed last year created the “Pak-China Economic Corridor” The project which involved the construction of a 200 km tunnel, would connect Pakistan ironically to the very location of the problem, the Chinese Muslim province of Xinjiang.

*As a Muslim country, Pakistan has been eager to stand up to the injustices committed against Muslims anywhere in the world. In most cases, these denunciations, whether they are of veil bans in France or pogroms in Gujarat, oft have not posed much of a challenge to the country’s strategic and economic interests.

This issue with China; its outright banning of what is a basic tenet of the Muslim faith may prove to be a trickier proposition.*

From last year: _'Chinese anti-veil 'beauty' campaign sows ugly tensions'_

*Used to denouncing only the West and India, Pakistanis ignore the racism and human rights abuses perpetrated by those they consider to be their 'friends'.*

In this respect, the condition of Muslims in Xinjiang requires the solidarity of others who believe in their rights of free exercise and the injustice of this ban.

*At the same time, China’s actions against its Muslims are not that different from Pakistan’s indifference toward its own religious minorities.*

Pakistani Hindus and Christians, while not facing outright bans, are used to being hounded, harassed and even killed. Viewed from this lens then, the Chinese and Pakistani positions on minorities are perhaps not that far apart; the difference only in the detail of which minority, Muslim, Hindu or Christian, bears the brunt of an intolerant state.

Hard as it may be on the poor Muslims of Xinjiang, this ban on fasting may not bring a break-up between Pakistan and China, becoming instead the wilful compromise on which marriages of convenience are built.





Rafia Zakaria is a columnist for DAWN. She is a writer and PhD candidate in Political Philosophy whose work and views have been featured in the New York Times, Dissent the Progressive, Guernica, and on Al Jazeera English, the BBC, and National Public Radio.

She is the author of Silence in Karachi, forthcoming from Beacon Press.



FaujHistorian said:


> yaar, all these things are selective.
> 
> Would you as an Indian origin person, like for Pakistan to protest?
> 
> Just curious,.


Pakistan could do a lot of things to force Chinese to treat their Muslims better. Pakistan should threaten to break-off all defense related cooperation with China Viz. stop buying their fighter jets, warships etc. Pakistan can also threaten to close the Gwadar port or the stop all trade with China.

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## FaujHistorian

shuntmaster said:


> ....
> Pakistan could do a lot of things to force Chinese to treat their Muslims better. Pakistan should threaten to break-off all defense related cooperation with China Viz. stop buying their fighter jets, warships etc. Pakistan can also threaten to close the Gwadar port or the stop all trade with China.




Would you suggest Pakistanis do the same to India, the next time a BJP leader starts a bad policy. 

We should then shut the borders down, break off all the diplomatic ties, and ban Indian posters from PDF

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## shuntmaster

FaujHistorian said:


> Would you suggest Pakistanis do the same to India, the next time a BJP leader starts a bad policy.
> 
> We should then shut the borders down, break off all the diplomatic ties, and ban Indian posters from PDF


Isn't Pakistan already been doing that? What happened to whole issue of giving MFN status?

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## FaujHistorian

shuntmaster said:


> Isn't Pakistan already been doing that? What happened to whole issue of giving MFN status?



comparing apples to oranges again? shunt ji!


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## shuntmaster

FaujHistorian said:


> comparing apples to oranges again? shunt ji!


How is it different? Didn't Pakistan ban trade and cultural exchange with India for a long time. 
Weren't Indian films banned in Pakistan. Even today, isn't most of trade between India and Pakistan happen via Dubai?

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## FaujHistorian

shuntmaster said:


> How is it different? Didn't Pakistan ban trade and cultural exchange with India for a long time.
> Weren't Indian films banned in Pakistan. Even today, isn't most of trade between India and Pakistan happen via Dubai?



If you were living in India, you would know there is huge trade going on between the two countries. 

NRIs and NRPs sometimes get stuck in old times. times gone by long long ago.


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## sur

Like before Western media keeps poping fabricated news about China. Just to incite Muslim countries against China. West is very eager to hinder China whichever way possible. Rumors about ban on fasting for government officials is spread by Western or Western-manipulated channels. China has contradicted such rumors.


China ambassador denies Ramadan fasting ban in Xinjiang
(Source) (2nd link)

*China's ambassador to Malaysia Huang Huikang on Friday denied news reports that Muslims in China's Xinjiang region have been banned from fasting during the month of Ramadan.*


*Foreign media on Wednesday reported* that several government departments in Xinjiang have banned Muslim staff from fasting during Ramadan.

The *media posted a so-called directive* from the Chinese government departments prohibiting the ruling Communist Party's members, teachers and young people from fasting or participating in the religious activities during Ramadan.





It's *same old propaganda of Western liars, re-spread* & accepted by brain-less local papers too.



(Link to older thread)
(Another thread)
(News from 2013 on Similar propaganda): _*I quote:*_
"Wall Street Journal's editorial says that ... State-run schools forbid the speaking of the Uygur language and public displays of Islamic practice, such as fasting during Ramadan, are prohibited in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region. 

In fact, not a single school in the region forbids the speaking of the Uygur language. Not only are Uygur students free to speak their mother tongue, many Han students are taking Uygur language classes there.

And there is no such thing as a ban on public displays of Islamic practice in Xinjiang or anywhere else in the country. Freedom of religious beliefs and practices are respected and protected throughout the country."






.
.
.
@*dlclong* @TaiShang @itaskol @xuxu1457 @Jlaw @Chinese-Dragon @cnleio

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## Sasquatch

Meh they can protest all they like we don't care, the OIC and the Arab League have been an absolute failure from stopping Israel in the West Bank and holding Jerusalem there isn't much for us to worry about.

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## TaiShang

*Ramadan, Beijing style*
Jul 3rd 2014 | BEIJING
_The Economist_





Far from Xinjiang

ON THE evening of June 29th at the Madian mosque in northern Beijing, 100 or so Muslims gathered for prayer and the communal breaking of Ramadan’s first day of ritual fasting. Among the attendees at the volunteer-run canteen were Chinese Hui Muslims, a handful of foreign Muslims, some recent converts to Islam and half a dozen Uighurs, the Muslim ethnic group from China’s restive Xinjiang region. 

*In China Ramadan this year comes against the backdrop of increased violence perpetrated by Uighurs and a government line which more strongly than ever attributes it to radical Islam and international jihadism.* In Xinjiang, authorities have reportedly taken steps, to discourage Ramadan fasting among ordinary people and ban it outright for many party members, government workers and school children.

At the Madian mosque, however, the scene was relaxed. *Bitter tensions may be roiling in Xinjiang, but in the cool shade of craggy pine trees and the sweeping eaves of the central courtyard of the Qing-dynasty mosque, diversity and tolerance were on display.*

Though concentrated in western China, Islam is practised across the country, with more than 23m adherents. Having spread to China along land and sea trade routes as early as the 7th century, Islam is embedded in Chinese history and society. Beijing alone has an estimated population of 250,000 Muslims, most classified by state demographers as Hui but who, apart from religious belief, are largely indistinguishable from the majority Han Chinese population. 

*Islam in China tends to be practised with broad flexibility. Very few of the practitioners at the Madian mosque pray five times each day although one says that he could, if he wanted, take breaks from work in order to do so. In the words of one Muslim from the Niujie (Ox Street) community in south-west Beijing, the rhythm of modern life in China means ‘there are are fewer and fewer strict observers of Ramadan”. *

Amina, the manager of a Muslim restaurant in central Beijing, says she will observe Ramadan along with most of her staff, although the chef will not. “His work is too hard. He has to eat,” she says. The restaurant will stay open for Han customers throughout the month, so workers will not have time to attend prayers. At the mosque in this neighbourhood most congregants are migrant construction workers. The caretaker of the mosque knows most of them are unable to abstain from food and water throughout the scorching Beijing summer days. “The important thing is that they are believers,” he says.

Since January violent attacks by Uighurs have escalated dramatically. Though not especially sophisticated, they have been truly ruthless, such as the mass stabbing in a train station in the south-western city of Kunming on March 1st, which left 33 dead. *In response the government has implemented a wide-ranging crackdown on terrorist organisations within the province—including restrictions on religious practices—and around the country. *

On June 24th state television aired a documentary positing a close connections between violence in Xinjiang and jihadist organisations in neighbouring Afghanistan and Pakistan (an English language version is available here). It began with footage of the September 11th, 2001 attacks on America and continued with footage of Osama bin Laden and terrorist training camps in Afghanistan and, it claimed, Xinjiang. 

The view of the Imam at the Madian mosque on this was unequivocal: “These people are not Muslims.”





No tension here

As the Madian congregation tidied up the outside dining area in preparation for the final prayers of the first day of Ramadan, Hui, Uighur and foreign Muslims worked side by side in washing dishes, folding up tables and sweeping the floor. *“I know a lot of Uighurs who come to this mosque, and they are all good Muslims,” the Imam says. He does worry, however, about members of the general public misunderstanding Islam and seeing it as a violent and dangerous religion. A young Hui Muslim who works for an American technology company knows Islam is often seen negatively in the West because of its association with radicalism. Along with the Imam, he hopes that China can steer clear of that dead end.*

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## dlclong

atatwolf said:


> Sooner or later all civilized countries will implement boycot on China.
> 
> Israel is getting a lot of fuss about treatment of Palestinians, what is different about uighur situation?


Sooner or later Turkey will be chrysanthemum burst neighboring countries, Greece, Armenia, Russia, Syria, Iran， kurd . . . . . . . 

Put your paws take away from China


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## shuntmaster

Pakistan has no comment yet on Chinese ban on fasting
Mariana Baabar


*ISLAMABAD: Pakistan is staying clear of latest directives by the Chinese Communist Party which has placed restrictions on fasting in the Chinese Muslim province of Xinjiang.

“I have no confirmation that the media reports are true. I have no comments on speculative reports,” spokesperson at the Foreign Office told ‘The News’.*

This is indeed a delicate and tricky issue for Islamabad which is Beijing’s closest ally. While always raising its voice in support of Muslims being suppressed around the globe, this is a major test for Pakistan whether to ignore or comment on this government ban, which it also sees as an internal matter of China.

China too, has a policy of non-interference, and sensitive issues with Pakistan are always discussed behind closed doors.

It is only lately that the local administration of Xinjiang has publicly taken issue with Pakistan for harbouring militants who travel from its Fata areas to strike inside Xinjiang.

So far the ban on fasting appears to be targeting only students and teachers, as Islam is practiced in Xinjiang, an area where tensions between the government and Muslim population have occurred from time to time.

Citing health worries, a statement on the website of the “Number 3 Grade School” in Ruoqiang County in Xinjiang, said, “No teacher can participate in religious activities, instill religious thoughts in students or coerce students into religious activities.”

The news agency reported that cities in Xinjiang had set up news portals saying that fasting was detrimental to the physical well-being of young students, and also have called in retired teachers to stand guard at mosques in order to prevent students from entering.

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## Jlaw

Lux de Veritas said:


> This ban is a stupid policy. Come and learn from Singapore. You guys have merely 10 million Uyghurs vs 1.3 billion Han and got so much problem.
> 
> Singapore has just 2.5 million Chinese citizen surrounded by 250 million Islamist within and without. We have religion and racial harmony.



Singapore is a western whore, sorry to say. Do not compare SG to China. You are not the big boy on the block. You are a small boy thus you have to make concessions.


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## BoQ77

if a Chinese earn only average 5 USD a year, China could call Monaco as small, and China as big.
But in person, a Monaco citizens earn 24 times bigger than a Chinese.

If you are in favor of a small quantity of Chinese rich. Okay, you are true.

But for individual leverage, Singapore greater than China. 
China GDP only 32 times bigger than Singapore while population 270 times bigger.


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## Jlaw

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> In a Muslim state there is always respect for non-Muslims. Non-Muslims can spent their lives according to their believes. Muslim governments and policy makers always care for these things. This is the Islamic teaching. If in any Muslim country of world anything going against the Islamic teachings we all Muslims will be the first to raise voice against them. Humans are important than religion or policies, religions and policies are for the benefits of humans.


Oh really?

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/christianattacks.htm

*Islamic Terror Attacks on Christians(Since 9/11)*

The list is like 10 pages.



BoQ77 said:


> if a Chinese earn only average 5 USD a year, China could call Monaco as small, and China as big.


If Vietnam ho tzi are smart they will will not be called vietnamese.

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## BoQ77

China don't know that cause unrest. And even attract the criticism from Muslim all over the world.


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## William Hung

Dr.Iftikhar said:


> In a Muslim state there is always respect for non-Muslims. Non-Muslims can spent their lives according to their believes. Muslim governments and policy makers always care for these things. This is the Islamic teaching. If in any Muslim country of world anything going against the Islamic teachings we all Muslims will be the first to raise voice against them. Humans are important than religion or policies, religions and policies are for the benefits of humans.



I believe you are lying. Most Muslim states don't respect non-muslim minority. Not everyone is stupid, there are many non-muslim who have lived in Muslim states and experienced discrimination first hand. There are too many LEGITIMATE reports about oppressions and persecutions in Muslim states.

The Koran itself said that any Muslim who choose to leave their religion should be punished, that Muslims are superior to non-muslim, that non-muslim should pay more tax than Muslim, non-muslim men can't marry Muslim women, etc. These are all discriminations. There are good reason why states like China, Tunisia, Ethiopia, etc want Muslims in their country to be controlled and monitored. They just simply want to protect their non-muslim citizens and social harmony as a whole.

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## kalu_miah

FaujHistorian said:


> Would you suggest Pakistanis do the same to India, the next time a BJP leader starts a bad policy.
> 
> We should then shut the borders down, break off all the diplomatic ties, and ban Indian posters from PDF



You guys need to seriously consider banning Indian posters from PDF. All they are doing is wasting your valuable time while they torpedo your effort to build relationship with rest of the world. Why provide an enemy the platform to hurt your national cause? Have you ever seen an Indian forum tolerating others who go against their narrative and world view?

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## William Hung

BoQ77 said:


> China don't know the cause of unrest. And even attract the criticism from Muslim all over the world.


China know the cause of these ongoin unrest. It is rooted in the Wahabi who is funded by the Saudi royal cronies who are controlled by the CIA. The relationship between the Uyghur terrorists and these cronies and terrorists go back to the 80s and 90s when bin Laden was still alive. This conflict between china and the CIA is ongoing today and CIA now managed to recruit some small frie turk terrorist NGO.

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## JSCh

I think describing a police officer that died in the line of duty as "scarified" is not unusual in Chinese media.


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## Jf Thunder

shuntmaster said:


> Does Islamabad have Israeli Embassy??


oh sorry, its in Karachi, my bad :p


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## shuntmaster

Jf Thunder said:


> oh sorry, its in Karachi, my bad :p


Ok. 
Didn't know pakistan had diplomatic relationship with Israel.

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## Jf Thunder

shuntmaster said:


> Ok.
> Didn't know pakistan had diplomatic relationship with Israel.


neither did I lol, use uncle google


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## BigDaddyWatch

I thought at the beginning that this story was untrue but in recent days more and more evidence appears that this story is true. As a Chinese I would say that this is shameful and I don't know what the government thinks they can achieve with this. I hope they can reverse this policy as soon as possible. In my view the Chinese government has done a lot of good for China but on this they are dead wrong.

The best way I can see this being changed is for a friendly nation like Pakistan to tell China discreetly that they are risking a huge backlash in the muslim world if they continue this policy.

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## FaujHistorian

kalu_miah said:


> You guys need to seriously consider banning Indian posters from PDF. All they are doing is wasting your valuable time while they torpedo your effort to build relationship with rest of the world. Why provide an enemy the platform to hurt your national cause? Have you ever seen an Indian forum tolerating others who go against their narrative and world view?


Yes Indian defense forums would not give this much freedom. This is for sure.

However I'd not group "all Indian posters on PDF" in the same category. There are many gems of men who give their precious time on this forum. 

don't you think so?

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## jkroo

I would like to hear these good news and the report of citizens.
Xinjiang is now in fast developping track and the rural area will benefit from it too. Investment in transportation, education systems and the local manpower can sustain Xinjiang's furthers development. Local elites should do hard work now. Its a historic opportunity.

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## Hakan

*Chinese Uighurs defy Ramadan ban*

*They want to cut our children off from Islam. We are not allowed to teach them the Quran, but we do, at home - secretly.

- Ghulam Abbas, a local Uighur*

*




*​

*Kashgar, China -* Chinese authorities have imposed restrictions on Uighur Muslims during the month of Ramadan, banning government employees and school children from fasting, in what rights groups say hasbecome an annual attempt at systematically erasing the region's Islamic identity. 

Chinese authorities have justified the ban on fasting by saying it is meant to protect the health of students, and restrictions on religious practices by government officials are meant to ensure the state does not support any particular faith.

Yet in Kashgar, in Xinjiang province, China's westernmost city, close to the border with Tajikstan and Kyrgyztan, Uighur Muslims say the restrictions have backfired. Not only have locals become more observant of Islamic practices, but many have found ways to flaunt Chinese laws restricting everything from who may attend the mosque, to which copies of the Quran are read.

They want to cut our children off from Islam. We are not allowed to teach them the Quran, but we do, at home - secretly.

- Ghulam Abbas, a local Uighur

"That is Mao ZeDong," said Omar, a taxi driver, pointing to a 24m-tall statue of the founder of the People's Republic of China, as he navigates his taxi through traffic across People's Square. "He brought all the Chinese here," he added, out of earshot of the soldiers lining up across the street.

A few minutes later, the soldiers pile into trucks and move to the city's commercial centre down the road, where police frisk shoppers at the entrance to a shopping mall. Across Kashgar, security forces have been deployed to thwart potential attacks by Uighur militants seeking to wrestle control of Xinjiang province from Beijing.

Home to some of China's largest deposits of oil, natural gas, and coal, Xinjiang has a majority Muslim Uighur population - a Turkic ethnic group with a language and culture closer to Central Asia. Before the region was absorbed into the People's Republic of China in 1949, almost everyone here was Uighur, but the numbers have have since declined, dropping to below half by the year 2000, as tens of millions of Han Chinese - the majority population of mainland China - were encouraged to settle here by the government.

That demographic shift, which accelerated in the 1990s as Beijing began to develop Xinjiang, combined with Chinese laws restricting Islamic practices by Uighurs and the 1997 execution of 30 Uighur separatists by Chinese authorities, triggered a wave of violence by militants that has left hundreds of people dead, mostly civilians.

Last month, a suicide bomber killed 39 people in the provincial capitol of Urumqi, and police claimed to have killed 13 men who attempted to ram an explosives-laden vehicle into their office near Kashgar.

The deadly violence - including an attack by knife-wielding men at a train station in Kuming that killed 29 in March - has sparked a massive crackdown by Beijing, with authorities announcing the convictions of more than 400 people across Xinjiang. Last Wednesday, Kashgar authorities announced 113 people had been sentenced for crimes, including supporting terrorism and inciting ethnic hatred and ethnic discrimination. 

"The government says every Uighur, if they have a beard or wear a hijab, they are a terrorist," said Abdul Majid, who owns a mobile phone shop near People's Square. He says the last time tensions were this high was in 2009, after 184 people died in clashes between Uighurs and Han Chinese in Urumqi. 

*'All these problems started after September 11'*
A world away from Kashgar's commercial centre lies the city's heart: a nearly 2,000-year-old Uighur quarter that is currently being rebuilt, literally brick by brick, by mostly Han Chinese migrant workers. Kashgar's ancient mosques are being restored and the homes in the old city re-imagined with hints of Central Asian architecture and with help from the Chinese government. It's part of a programme that authorities say is aimed at making the area earthquake-resistant. 

But not everyone is happy about the renovations.
"If Allah wants to kill us, he will send an earthquake, and he will kill us," said Hajji Abdul Razzak, a silk merchant who has chosen not to have his home in the old city rebuilt. "A lot of people have left, and just put their houses out to rent."

Around the corner from Kashgar's 572-year-old Id Kah Mosque, a large notice board implores Uighurs to adopt modern attire. One half of the board is covered in pictures depicting traditional Uighurs, women in colourful dresses and flowing hair and clean-shaven men. The other half shows rows of men with beards and women in headscarves or face-covering veils, all with a red X over them.

"All these problems started after September 11th," said Abdul Razzak. "The Pakistan border [with China] was completely sealed, and when it opened a few years later, these Uighurs from Pakistan and Afghanistan came. They are doing all these [bombings], but we are being oppressed."

*Restrictions ignored*

Yet, Abdul Razzak and other Uighurs said the attempt to clamp down on religious expression has backfired in Kashgar, with more and more locals flaunting the restrictions.

Nearly every business in Kashgar's old city is closed during the hottest part of the afternoon when Al Jazeera visited this week during Ramadan.

In the evening, throngs of young women in headscarves or full face veils pass signs posted at Kashgar's main hospital reminding them veiled women cannot enter.

Along with government employees, children under the age of 18 are barred from attending mosques, yet dozens of men attending night prayers at one of Kashgar's medieval mosques have brought along their children. Toddlers line up next to the adults, imitating their movements during prayers.

"Sure, it's against the law to bring kids to the masjid [mosque], but we do it anyway," said Ghulam Abbas, a middle-aged Uighur man who makes a living selling fried fish on the main boulevard in the old city.

He added that, for centuries, parents sent their children to _maktaps_, part-time schools at the mosque, where they memorised the Quran - but this practise, along with most organised religious instruction, is now prohibited in Xinjiang.

Asked if Uighurs are forgetting how to recite the Quran as a result, Abbas called his eight-year-old son over and, after some coaxing, convinced him to recite a chapter from memory. "They want to cut our children off from Islam," Abbas said. "We are not allowed to teach them the Quran, but we do, at home - secretly."

It is not the only restriction that is being ignored by the Uighurs in Kashgar.

"The Chinese don't want us to have kids, but we just pay fines or bribe people," says Abdul Razzak, who has five children - three more than allowed by law. His three extra children, two sons and a daughter, have cost him around 60,000 yuan ($9,670) in fines. He said he is worried they will forget how to speak Uighur.

Other restrictions - like the ban on fasting for schoolchildren - are more difficult to get around. Chinese authorities require that school teachers, who are barred from fasting themselves, also discourage students.

"It depends on the teachers," said Mehmet, a high-school student in Kashgar. "[Some] bring water, bread, candy, put it in front of you, and you have to eat."

Meanwhile, certain styles of headscarf are still not acceptable to authorities. "The abaya was very popular here, starting four or five years ago," said Abdul Majid, a 20-something Uighur who imports women's clothes from Turkey. "But last year, police started bothering women, so now, I can't find anyone who wants to buy them."

Under Chinese law, only state-approved copies of Islamic literature like the Quran are allowed. "If they catch you with a different version, a different translation, or a book from Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, you go to jail," explained the owner of a small bookstore across the street form the Id Kah mosque, who asked not to be named.

Chinese Uighurs defy Ramadan ban - Features - Al Jazeera English

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## ChineseTiger1986

The Uighurs are not the only Muslim group in Xinjiang.

No Radaman ban on Kazakhs and Tajiks, but only on Uighurs? What kind of logic is this?

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## Owl of Abott

well if china stops this,it would help them fight the insurgency.

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## Tameem

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Uighurs are not the only Muslim group in Xinjiang.
> 
> No Radaman ban on Kazakhs and Tajiks, but only on Uighurs? What kind of logic is this?



Are Uighurs are the highest ehtnic group of Muslims in China?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Tameem said:


> Are Uighurs are the highest ehtnic group of Muslims in China?



The largest group of Muslim in China is Hui, but no Ramadan ban on them.

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## KingMamba

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The largest group of Muslim in China is Hui, but no Ramadan ban on them.



I don't know how true this is but if it is true then it is counter productive. Also for the first time this is being broadcast in some international media circles.


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## ChineseTiger1986

KingMamba said:


> I don't know how true this is but if it is true then it is counter productive. Also for the first time this is being broadcast in some international media circles.



Mostly reported by the western media, the same media that confirmed Saddam had the WMD.

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## KingMamba

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Mostly reported by the western media, the same media that confirmed Saddam has the WMD.



Why would Uigher interviewed in this article lie?

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## ChineseTiger1986

KingMamba said:


> Why would Uigher interviewed in this article lie?



Yep, some oversea Uighurs got interviewed.

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## RAMPAGE

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The largest group of Muslim in China is Hui, but no Ramadan ban on them.


So what if they're struggling for freedom ??? You think that revoking their right to freely practice their religion somehow becomes justified ???

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## KingMamba

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yep, some oversea Uighurs got interviewed.



Ghulam Abbas is a local according to the article and this interview was done in Xinjiang.

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## Hakan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Mostly reported by the western media, the same media that confirmed Saddam had the WMD.


It is a fact that fasting is banned for students and government employees. Your cheap tricks will not work.

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## ChineseTiger1986

RAMPAGE said:


> So what if they're struggling for freedom ??? You think that revoking their right to freely practice their religion somehow becomes justified ???



They have the freedom to practise their religion, but only the anti-China coalition and the oversea Uighur separatists claimed otherwise.



Kaan said:


> It is a fact that fasting is banned for students and government employees. Your cheap tricks will not work.



The US is killing million of Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq, this is the situation that you should be worried about instead of getting obsessed about how China "persecuting" the Muslims with your wild imagination.

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## BigDaddyWatch

As a Chinese i would like to see this practise to end. As it is simply counter productive. What is the point of this ?

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## RAMPAGE

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They have the freedom to practise their religion.


What're you smoking ??? They're not allowed to fast !!! Is that the definition of Freedom of religion in China ???

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## Hakan

*The tight constraints placed on religious practice are widespread*.

Religious leaders, such as imams, are required to attend political education classes to ensure compliance with Chinese Communist Party regulations and policies.
Only *state approved versions of the Koran* and sermons are permitted, with all unapproved religious texts treated as illegal publications liable to *confiscation and criminal charges against whoever was found in possession of them*
Any outward expression of faith in government workplaces, hospitals and some private businesses, such as men wearing beards or women wearing headscarves, is forbidden.
Low-income subsidies can be withheld unless a pledge to not to wear veils and to not possess “illegal” religious texts is signed; no state employees and no one under the age of 18 can enter a mosque, the second a measure not in force in the rest of China.
Organized private religious education is proscribed and facilitators of private classes in Islam are frequently charged with conducting “illegal” religious activities.
Students, teachers and government workers are prohibited from fasting during Ramadan. In addition, Uyghurs are not permitted to undertake Hajj, unless it is with an expensive official tour, in which state officials carefully vet applicants.

Religious Repression of Uyghurs in East Turkestan - Venn Institute | Venn Institute



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The US is killing million of Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq, this is the situation that you should be worried about instead getting obsessed about how China "persecuting" the Muslims with your wild imagination.


We are talking about china now. Those issues are for another thread. People talk about that all of the time but people don't talk about Uighur much so I see it as my duty to spread information about what is going on when I have time.

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## ChineseTiger1986

RAMPAGE said:


> What're you smoking ??? They're not allowed to fast !!! Is that the definition of Freedom of religion in China ???



Where is the source? The western media? So they all suddenly become the Muslim lovers when it comes the Chinese Muslims?

If China has the true intention to ban Islam, then it should have done to all Muslim groups, not just Uighurs.

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## Hakan

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Where is the source? The western media? So they all suddenly become the Muslim lovers when it comes the Chinese Muslims?
> 
> If China has the true intention to ban Islam, then it should have done to all Muslim groups, not just Uighurs.


Are hui muslim government employees and students allowed to fast?

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## Phukimak

the government ban the fast, end discussion!

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## ChineseTiger1986

Kaan said:


> Are hui muslim government employees and students allowed to fast?



Sure, just like Uighurs. Also, the Uighur soldiers on the Liaoning carrier don't consume pork, it has been reported by CCTV about how they managed to solve the problem of this cultural diversification.









Phukimak said:


> the government ban the fast, end discussion!



Sorry, but it won't happen.

But through the wild imagination of the western media, it has been banned.

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## Phukimak

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Sure, just like Uighurs. Also, the Uighur soldiers on the Liaoning carrier don't consume pork, it has been reported by CCTV about how they managed to solve the problem of this cultural diversification.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, but it won't happen.
> 
> But through the wild imagination of the western media, it has been banned.



i found islam in china much better than islam in islam country it self..
but the best is singapore..


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## sahaliyan

Our Indian and Turkish friends keep posting threads like this,we already have the similar thread of this issue,why should you open a new thread?
I personally against this ban,but then again if you are muslim,why should you join CCP first place,as we know,the CCP members are forbidden to believe in religion,the students are different case,no one has the right to ban fasting of students

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## kalu_miah

FaujHistorian said:


> Yes Indian defense forums would not give this much freedom. This is for sure.
> 
> However I'd not group "all Indian posters on PDF" in the same category. There are many gems of men who give their precious time on this forum.
> 
> don't you think so?



Yes I have seen a few rare exceptions, who are not the usual clueless trolls. So a better idea could be to limit access to the forum to these people only and ban all time wasters and habitual trolls. That way you would have some serious and valuable input from the Indian side and at the same time not waste time and resources of this website and posters.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Phukimak said:


> i found islam in china much better than islam in islam country it self..
> but the best is singapore..



Many Muslims in China are nice people, even China didn't impose any restriction on them, but their youths are just becoming too materialistic just like many other Han Chinese youths.

Sometimes i rather have these people staying as the traditional simple Muslims than having this materialistic behavior of the modern society.

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## BigDaddyWatch

My view on this is. The Uyghurs are only little over 10 million out of a population of 1361 milllion they can't break away from China even if they wanted too. Because the current population of Uyghurs in Sinkiang is about 45% and the han population is about 40%. This is only going to create more resentment and alienation on the part of the Uyghurs. So let them have their religion and language and for me that goes for the Tibetans as well. What can these people do ? They are a drop in the ocean.

The problem that I see is that for most Chinese religion is not that important and don't understand how others view the issue of religion. Most Chinese don't see this issue as a big deal. In China you have the world's largest population of atheists anywhere in the world about 700 million (i'm an atheist myself). So religion is for most people in China an alien concept. And people at the top blames religion for the violence amongst the Uyghurs rather than the economic and social discontent there is. Chinese generally don't discriminate based on religion because they don't see it as important enough for once identity. When bombs and knife attacks happened in China people online (including here) didn't blame Islam but simply blamed it on the Uyghurs. For the government this isn't about religion either its about control over the population. Because abroad they have no problems dealing with religiously based governments like those in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

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## djsjs

KingMamba said:


> I don't know how true this is but if it is true then it is counter productive. Also for the first time this is being broadcast in some international media circles.


hui population is more than Uyghurs.Uyghurs contribute 40% of our Muslim population. millions of Muslims living on running restaurants or selling mutton shashlik，they are everywhere of our cities.

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## sahaliyan

Eid of Qinghai
穆斯林群众冒雨聚礼迎开斋—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

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## sahaliyan

BigDaddyWatch said:


> My view on this is. The Uyghurs are only little over 10 million out of a population of 1361 milllion they can't break away from China even if they wanted too. Because the current population of Uyghurs in Sinkiang is about 45% and the han population is about 40%. This is only going to create more resentment and alienation on the part of the Uyghurs. So let them have their religion and language and for me that goes for the Tibetans as well. What can these people do ? They are a drop in the ocean.
> 
> The problem that I see is that for most Chinese religion is not that important and don't understand how others view the issue of religion. Most Chinese don't see this issue as a big deal. In China you have the world's largest population of atheists anywhere in the world about 700 million (i'm an atheist myself). So religion is for most people in China an alien concept. And people at the top blames religion for the violence amongst the Uyghurs rather than the economic and social discontent there is. Chinese generally don't discriminate based on religion because they don't see it as important enough for once identity. When bombs and knife attacks happened in China people online (including here) didn't blame Islam but simply blamed it on the Uyghurs. For the government this isn't about religion either its about control over the population. Because abroad they have no problems dealing with religiously based governments like those in Saudi Arabia or Iran.


China was always a secular state and we are proud of this,you can see it's the emperor Taizong of Tang waqqas baba to China,you will find a mosque in Guangzhou honour for him,and this is the start of islam in China,not to mention,nearly in every provinces we have muslims,and the Chinese government(the imperial and repulic) treated the muslims equal,they can believe what they want to believe,eat what they want to eat

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## waz

The Uyghur students should be allowed to fast. This has nothing to do with rebellion or causing trouble. This is simple devotion. The CCP issue is a party thing and to be honest applied to all.

As for the rest the Hui Muslims are very successful and serve in the armed forces, government, have businesses, are successful students and so on. They have never reported any restriction and I have met them in person to confirm this.


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## ChineseTiger1986

waz said:


> The Uyghur students should be allowed to fast. This has nothing to do with rebellion or causing trouble. This is simple devotion. The CCP issue is a party thing and to be honest applied to all.
> 
> As for the rest the Hui Muslims are very successful and serve in the armed forces, government, have businesses, are successful students and so on. They have never reported any restriction and I have met them in person to confirm this.



There is no restriction of the fast ban on the Uighur students, just don't listen the fabricated story of the western media.

China is against the Uighur ultra-nationalism, but not their religion, since Huis and many other pro-China Muslims also share the very same religion. We are not stupid to alienate ourselves like this.

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## Snomannen

Kaan said:


> It is a fact that fasting is banned for students and government employees. Your cheap tricks will not work.



So you have already known that the ban is not particularly for Uyghurs, but government employees (every employee of the Chinese government have been told before joining the CCP, that their religion cannot never be the first matter in your life.)

Then why are you keep spreading such rumors?

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## Hakan

KirovAirship said:


> So you have already known that the ban is not particularly for Uyghurs, but government employees (every employee of the Chinese government have been told before joining the CCP, that their religion cannot never be the first matter in your life.)
> 
> Then why are you keep spreading such rumors?


Its not a rumor its a fact.

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## ChineseTiger1986

It is only for the CPC members of the minority descents, now the rumor has been cleared.

No ordinary Muslims have been affected.

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## UKBengali

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> It is only for the CPC members of the minority descents, now the rumor has been cleared.
> 
> No ordinary Muslims have been affected.



So not for all state employees then?


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## ChineseTiger1986

UKBengali said:


> So not for all state employees then?



The state employees who don't hold a CPC membership, then no.

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## ZYXW

narcon said:


> Lets not talk about good China which is our great friend - Pakistan.
> 
> Now what?


That is a very pakistani thing to do: turning a blind eye to infringement of rights....that's your forte...so not surprised my friend. lol

Wrong is wrong. Friend or not friend. This is about the people!


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## Aepsilons

ZYXW said:


> That is a very pakistani thing to do: turning a blind eye to infringement of rights....that's your forte...so not surprised my friend. lol
> 
> Wrong is wrong. Friend or not friend. This is about the people!



Every country does that. _Quid Pro Quo_.

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## ZYXW

Hyperion said:


> @Sinan, my friend, Armed Forces officers for decades were not allowed to offer prayers, let alone fast.........their wives denied the right to veil........ same was true for many universities where even a mosque was not allowed...... anyone even with a remotely religious look was followed by MIT......... foods at universities were contaminated for other reasons........ people disappeared for no reason at all......... this all happened in Turkey......... along with millions of other things.......
> 
> Let's not get into state policies of China.......... we know that they may not be perfect, however, essential to integrity of state of China from foreign elements, who wish nothing less than total disintegration of it, by using religion or other covert means.
> 
> Stable China is not only good for us, but for rest of humanity........... a unipolar world, where Uncle Sam gets to do whatever it wants is bad bad bad......... trust you me, even bad for Turkey.......... China maybe humanities last hope to have a sane world order.......... it isn't there yet, however, it will eventually get there in a decade or so.........


Babe I am kinda surprised you're saying this. I understand your viewpoint but would you rather have china surpass the US even if it means letting it get away with oppressing its own people? I understand the US has done that too with people, but does that really make okay for it to happen again? 



Nihonjin1051 said:


> Every country does that. _Quid Pro Quo_.


I never said any country should be allowed to get away with it. Just because countries do it, that does not make it okay.


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## Aepsilons

ZYXW said:


> I never said any country should be allowed to get away with it. Just because countries do it, that does not make it okay.



I agree with this wholeheartedly.

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## Jlaw

kalu_miah said:


> You are getting it my friend, that is exactly it. Education and jobs will remove the swamp.
> 
> As for the minuscule percentage extremists that somehow get brainwashed by deviant ideology, you will need a Chinese version of GFC for Muslims within China, and if this is good enough, it might be possible to promote it globally to combat petrodollar funded deviant ideology that is at the root of extremism. You have to fight ideology with a better more sound ideology. Only a better belief system based on tradition can replace deviant belief system that has no basis in history in the first place:
> How to stop Islamic extremism: Global Fiqh Council (GFC)



If this doesn't work, than bring in the electric fly/mosquito swapper. No more lame excuses from foreign Muslims or anyone else after this.
But knowing them, they will come up with something old.



Lux de Veritas said:


> 明代云南改土归流时也闹得厉害。现在云南少数民族不少，没听过闹独立。明清时代内地伊斯兰也不老实，现在可本分多了。民族融合需要些时间。



So besides time, what do you suggest?



Sinan said:


> I would prefer them to live in Turkey instead of under Chinese rule....but we don't tolerate Jihadist crap in our country, so the radicals can stay in China.


But they are your "brothers" from different mothers and fathers, you should accept them all. You can't pick and choose.

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## Jlaw

jkroo said:


> Basically, I agree with @dlclong. Xinjiang is a province level region of China. As I know, Urumqi the name came from ancient Monglia language means beautiful grass(farm) land.
> Aksu ancient name is Asu and the city formed about 16th century. You are right about it mean white water. You need three glaciers and two river to totally figure it out. (Muzati river? Idont know how to write in English)
> Now I totally understand your feelings that I call it historic sentimental. Hope it would not be your burdan to face the real world. You dont deserve humiliation for your ancistor had been expelled out of Xinjiang long long time ago. No this history then no your glory in Europe. If you take this feelings to bash China that is childish, right? The world goes by its own historic track not by individual's day dreams or delusions. Uyghurs is our brother ethnic group along with 56 ethnic group of China and they are not belong to other country. If you want to bring your kin to Turkey then try to help them and repect their own choice. To abandon home land always be defficulty though. I dont think opportunities in Xinjiang is less than Turkey. If a person is industrial enough he can make money easilly. Last time I got the news that a Uyghur youth make money online to sell chop cake in Hunan province.



Aksu also means 呃數--cheating/stealing from a business.

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## TaiShang

jkroo said:


> I would like to hear these good news and the report of citizens.
> Xinjiang is now in fast developping track and the rural area will benefit from it too. Investment in transportation, education systems and the local manpower can sustain Xinjiang's furthers development. Local elites should do hard work now. Its a historic opportunity.





Jlaw said:


> If this doesn't work, than bring in the electric fly/mosquito swapper. No more lame excuses from foreign Muslims or anyone else after this.



Here is how I see the Chinese plan with new attention paid to the region:

Educate, integrate and assimilate. 

Then, eliminate those who resist assimilation and still politicize their mere biological presence.

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## -SINAN-

Jlaw said:


> But they are your "brothers" from different mothers and fathers, you should accept them all. You can't pick and choose.



Nope, we crush terrorists and radicals... we are pretty expert on the subject... so, there is no need them to come.



TaiShang said:


> Here is how I see the Chinese plan with new attention paid to the region:
> Educate, integrate and assimilate.
> Then, eliminate those who resist assimilation and still politicize their mere biological presence.



You can't assimilate Turks... we are immune to assimilation.


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## TaiShang

Sinan said:


> You can't assimilate Turks... we are immune to assimilation.



That's creepy.


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## -SINAN-

TaiShang said:


> That's creepy.



Being resistant to assimilation is creepy ??? What else ... sun and stars also creepy for you too ?


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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang aids preschool*
Source:Xinhua 

The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in Northwest China is stepping up financial support in 2014 to boost pre-school education.

*The government of Xinjiang will pump an extra 810 million yuan ($133.6 million) into expansion of public and private kindergartens to accommodate more children, particularly disabled and orphaned children, from poor families and of migrant workers, according to the regional education department.*

The fund subsidizes food, books, heating, building maintenance and miscellaneous fees for rural kindergartens. *All 450,000 rural children in Xinjiang are expected to benefit from the program.*

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## Edison Chen

TaiShang said:


> *Xinjiang aids preschool*
> Source:Xinhua
> 
> The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in Northwest China is stepping up financial support in 2014 to boost pre-school education.
> 
> *The government of Xinjiang will pump an extra 810 million yuan ($133.6 million) into expansion of public and private kindergartens to accommodate more children, particularly disabled and orphaned children, from poor families and of migrant workers, according to the regional education department.*
> 
> The fund subsidizes food, books, heating, building maintenance and miscellaneous fees for rural kindergartens. *All 450,000 rural children in Xinjiang are expected to benefit from the program.*



Excellent News!

Education is the most crucial task for CPC. To curb terrorism in its cradle. We should build more kindergarten in rural Xinjiang, to care those children, to prevent them from being brainwashed by NGOs. I urge all Uyghur kids to wear red scarf in primary school, and to join Communist Youth League in middle school.

But I heard, some Uyghur are not willing to receive education.

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## TaiShang

Edison Chen said:


> Education is the most crucial task for CPC. To curb terrorism in its cradle. We should build more kindergarten in rural Xinjiang, to care those children, to prevent them from being brainwashed by NGOs.



Indeed.

Good citizens of Xinjiang are to be be assimilated into the melting pot of China and education (and language) is the most practical tool available.






_College students pose with a national flag to celebrate National Day on Oct 1 in Hami, Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, Sept 26, 2013. 



Edison Chen said:



But I heard, some Uyghur are not willing to receive education.

Click to expand...

_
I guess those are of a similar breed with certain ethnic-nationalists who decline to be part of a larger union. Those people, I guess, will in time be eliminated if they are willing to put their life in terrorizing for a cause that is lost before born.

The Xinjiang Class: Education, Integration, and the Uyghurs, Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs, Vol. 30, No. 1, March 2010:


> Statistics compiled since 1982 suggest positive trends in the promulgation of state sponsored
> education in Xinjiang. Dru Gladney reports that from 1982 to 1990, the percentage
> of China’s Uyghur population who attended primary school increased from 37
> to 43% and who attended undergraduate college increased from 0.1 to 2.1%. During the
> same eight-year span, illiteracy within the Uyghur population also decreased from 45 to
> 26.6%. Furthermore, by 2001 97% of all “school-aged” children in Xinjiang were
> enrolled in school, and 61.8% of total in-school students were minorities.

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## liall

Is Xinxiang autonomous region?


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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Good citizens of Xinjiang are to be be assimilated into the melting pot of China and education (and language) is the most practical tool available.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _College students pose with a national flag to celebrate National Day on Oct 1 in Hami, Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, Sept 26, 2013.
> 
> _
> I guess those are of a similar breed with certain ethnic-nationalists who decline to be part of a larger union. Those people, I guess, will in time be eliminated if they are willing to put their life in terrorizing for a cause that is lost before born.
> 
> The Xinjiang Class: Education, Integration, and the Uyghurs, Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs, Vol. 30, No. 1, March 2010:


 
Anyway I can get access to academic databases without signing up for a course?

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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> Anyway I can get access to academic databases without signing up for a course?



I guess you need to have access to an institution which has an agreement with these databases. You may individually register, as well, but must be very expensive. Alternatively, you can ask a friend or relative who is at the university to provide you their library access information  Which databases you may access all depends on the institution. They apparently do not subscribe to all databeses because that would be repetitive and too expensive. But also school's/department's concentration will determine what kind of database they prefer. 



liall said:


> Is Xinxiang autonomous region?



FYI 

The Constitution of China:

Article 4: Minority Rights

"...Regional autonomy is practiced in areas where people of minority nationalities live in concentrated communities; in these areas organs of self- government are established to exercise the power of autonomy.* All national autonomous areas are integral parts of the People's Republic of China*."
...

Article 30. Governmental divisions

The administrative division of the People's Republic of China is as follows:

1)The country is divided into provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities directly under the Central Government;

2)Provinces and autonomous regions are divided into autonomous prefectures, counties, autonomous counties, and cities;

3)Counties and autonomous counties are divided into townships, nationality townships, and towns.

*All autonomous regions, autonomous prefectures and autonomous counties are national autonomous areas*."
...

Article 115. Powers and functions

The organs of self-government of autonomous regions, prefectures and counties exercise the functions and powers of local organs of state as specified in Section V of Chapter Three of the Constitution. At the same time, they exercise the power of autonomy within the limits of their authority as prescribed by the Constitution, the Law of the People's Republic of China on Regional National Autonomy and other laws and implement the laws and policies of the state in the light of the existing local situation.
...

Article 116. Concurrency of regional and national law

The people's congresses of the national autonomous areas have the power to enact regulations on the exercise of autonomy and other separate regulations in the light of the political, economic and cultural characteristics of the nationality or nationalities in the areas concerned. The regulations on the exercise of autonomy and other separate regulations of autonomous regions shall be submitted to the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress for approval before they go into effect. Those of autonomous prefectures and counties shall be submitted to the standing committees of the people's congresses of provinces of autonomous regions for approval before they go into effect, and they shall be reported to the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress for the record.

Article 117. Independence of finance

The organs of self-government of the national autonomous areas have the power of autonomy in administering the finances of their areas. All revenues accruing to the national autonomous areas under the financial system of the state shall be managed and used by the organs of self-government of those areas on their own.

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## TaiShang

*Anti-terror measures proving to be effective.*

*32 jailed for terror audio, video in Xinjiang*

Courts in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region have given 32 people jail terms ranging from four years to life imprisonment for spreading terror-related audio and video and organizing terrorist groups.

*The courts in seven cities and prefectures of Xinjiang, including Urumqi, Aksu, Kizilsu Kirgiz, Ili, Hotan, Turpan and Bortala, handed down the verdicts for 11 terror audio and video cases on Thursday.*

*Of all, three were sentenced to life in jail and the rest 29 were sentenced to four to 15 years in prison, the regional publicity department said in a press release on Friday.*


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## cirr

A miniature Shenzhen in the making？

*Plan to build border city in Xinjiang Ok'd*

2014-07-11 09:08:25 GMT2014-07-11 17:08:25(Beijing Time) ecns.cn





Black drops from left to right：Alma-Ata of Kazakhstan，Horgos and Yining


State Council has approved a plan to build a city on China-Kazakhstan border in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region and work is already underway.

The city, which will be called Horgos, is positioned as an international trade and logistic hub, local official said on Friday.

It will cover an area of 1,970 square kilometers, including the existing 73 square kilometers of Horgos special economic zone, said Yang Jun, deputy director of the economic zone.

The State Council approved the plan based on Horgos special economic zone on June 29. Yang said the proposal was filed in 2010 and he believes the idea of building the Silk Road Economic Belt has fast-forwarded the process.

"Besides the special economic zone, two nearby townships will also be under the administration of the new city, which will be built in both Asian and European styles," Yang said.

"After Horgos becomes a city, it could be included in the overall planning of the central government and receive direct funding for infrastructure and improving people's livelihood."

Plan to build border city in Xinjiang Ok'd - China News - SINA English

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## Kompromat

Way to go China!

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## jkroo

Its time for Horgos to rock & roll.


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## cirr

*Rebuilding the silk road*

Zhong Nan China Daily/Asia News Network

Sunday, Jun 15, 2014






A shepherd travels on a path near Sayram Lake in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region's Bortala Mongol autonomous prefecture.


China and other countries along the ancient trade route are working to rejuvenate economic ties shared for millennia. Zhong Nan reports.

As a land-entry port and border market connecting China and Kazakhstan, *Horgos* is known as a border station in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region's Ili Kazakh autonomous prefecture.

Its history can be traced back to China's Sui Dynasty (AD 581-618), when the port served as part of the Silk Road's trade routes.

Around 2,000 years ago, caravans of camels carrying goods followed specific routes across Eurasia, crossing mountains and deserts, and linking the continent's east and west through the trade of silk, jewelry, handicrafts, spices and seeds.

The Silk Road was a practical route for trade and cultural exchange, connecting China and European countries since around 100 BC, with Central Asia as the intermediate station. It became prosperous in China's Tang Dynasty, when the capital of ancient China, Chang'an (today's Xi'an), was opening up and hosted envoys from over 70 countries, including foreign government and religious delegations, merchants and overseas students.

During his visit to Kazakhstan in September 2013, President Xi Jinping proposed that China and Central Asia join hands to build a Silk Road Economic Belt. The idea has been echoed in Central Asian countries.

The combined population of the belt's countries is nearly 4 billion.

The belt connects the Asia-Pacific economic circle in the east and the European economic circle in the west. Countries along the belt have great potential to cooperate in many fields. These include infrastructure, transportation, tourism, finance, energy, telecommunications, agriculture and manufacturing.

Now the journey's eastern destination, the world's second-largest economy, is devoting itself to rejuvenating the Silk Road and bringing new economic impetus to countries along the ancient route.

Since 2010, major Chinese cities, including Chengdu, Chongqing, Xi'an, Zhengzhou, Wuhan and Yiwu（_since when Yiwu has been considered a major city in China？A county-level major city！_）, have launched weekly or monthly block-train services to European and Central Asian destinations. This is part of China's effort to turn its inland resources and labour-rich cities into international trade hubs.

A "Silk Road Economic Belt" agreement was signed by 24 cities from eight countries along the Silk Road last November to boost multilateral cooperation, development and prosperity.

- See more at: Rebuilding the silk road, AsiaOne Asia News


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## cirr

*Dai Bingguo: Jointly Build the Silk Roads for the 21st Century With Openness and Inclusiveness*

*Speech by H.E. Dai Bingguo*

2014/07/12

Guiyang, 11 July 2014

Mr. Chairman,
Ladies and Gentlemen,
Dear Friends,
Good afternoon.

It is my pleasure to attend the Eco Forum Global Annual Conference Guiyang 2014. This year, a sub-forum on the Silk Roads is held for the first time, which combines the themes of eco-friendliness and the Silk Roads. It answers the call of the time, follows the initiatives of our leaders and also speaks to the aspirations of billions of people from dozens of countries along the Silk Roads.

As we know, in the course of over 2,000 years, our ancestors traversed through thorns and waves and opened the ancient Silk Road and the maritime Silk Road, making immense contribution to the exchanges and integration between the East and the West as well as human civilization and progress.

*It has been proved that the ancient Silk Roads were roads towards common prosperity and development that connected China with the rest of the world through trade and cultural exchanges.* With its starting point in China, the 8,000-kilometer-long Silk Road ran through nearly 30 countries in Central Asia, South Asia, West Asia, Europe and North Africa. The maritime Silk Road ran through the Yellow Sea, the East China Sea, the South China Sea, the Pacific Ocean and the Indian Ocean towards the Korean Peninsula, Japan and Southeast Asian countries and even as far as countries in the South Pacific, South Asia and East Africa. What China exported via the Silk Roads on the land and the sea was not weapons or war, but silk, porcelain and products of ancient Chinese civilization such as well-drilling technique, metallurgy, silkworm breeding, papermaking, movable-type printing and gunpowder. Through this road, goods from other countries, such as alfalfa, grapes, carrots, pepper, walnuts, pomegranates, garlic, spices, jewelry and colored glaze, also came to China, along with the art of glass making and the Arabic astronomy, calendar and medicine. Over those 2,000 years and more, the exchange of goods, people and technologies via the overland and maritime Silk Roads greatly improved the productivity and people's lives of all countries and contributed to the prosperity of all nations along the way.

*The ancient Silk Roads were roads of integration and mutual learning among various civilizations towards common progress.* The 20th century British philosopher Bertrand Russell observed and I quote, "Contacts between different civilizations have often in the past proved to be landmarks in human progress." The 2,000-year history of the ancient Silk Roads is a history of exchanges and mutual learning between Eastern and Western cultures and thinking. Both the Eastern and Western civilizations, including those of China, India, West Asian countries, Rome and Greece, witnessed the growth of the Silk Roads from mere transportation and trading routes to a catalyst of two-way learning and integration between civilizations. The pioneering westward journeys of Zhang Qian and Zheng He and the arduous eastward journeys of Marco Polo and Matteo Ricci all reflected the genuine curiosity and respect of people towards another culture. After Hiuen Tsang's pilgrimage through the Silk Road to India in the Tang Dynasty in quest of Buddhist scriptures, foreign cultures, represented by Buddhism, began to have a profound and far-reaching influence on the Chinese culture. Likewise, the spirit of being modest and adaptive, inherent in the Chinese culture, provided the breeding ground for the growth and spread of foreign cultures in China. Voltaire and other Western thinkers had never been to China, but from Chinese classics introduced via the Silk Roads, such as Confucianism, Taoism and the Book of Changes, they were quick to discover the essence of China's moral, legal and civil service system while pushing for yet another liberation of mind across Europe. As former French President Jacques Chirac put it, the French Enlightenment thinkers saw a sensible and harmonious world in China, a world that submitted itself to the law of nature and manifested the overriding order of the cosmos.

*The ancient Silk Roads were roads for peace and friendship featuring benevolence, good-neighborliness, and harmony without uniformity.* In my view, the fundamental spirit of the Chinese nation boils down to "harmony". Be it in Mother Nature or human society, it is important to have harmonious combination of yin and yang so that "All living things live in harmony and grow with nourishments." In the Spring and Autumn Period of China more than 2,700 years ago, Guan Zhong, an ancient philosopher and politician of Qi Kingdom, put forward four principles, namely non-alliance, non-belligerence, good-neighborliness and proper management of border areas. He advocated harmony at home and abroad, no use of force, opening up to the outside world and meritocracy. The philosophy of harmony had a far-reaching impact on building the Silk Road and even the foreign policy of China over the past 2,000 years. The overland and maritime Silk Roads had not only geographically connected China with its neighboring countries and nations, but also created a cultural bond. It is fair to say that for most of the time over the past two millennia, the two ancient Silk Roads have been a symbol of peace, friendship, prosperity and civilization.

Ladies and Gentlemen,
Dear Friends,

Our planet has changed profoundly over the past 2,000 years. Economic globalization, IT application and digital revolution have brought us into a new era when we are in a community of shared destiny. Mankind still faces a series of tough challenges, among which is a harsh reality that most of the countries along the Silk Roads for the 21st Century are developing countries with the longstanding problem of uneven development between urban and rural areas and among different regions, where many impoverished people still lack access to food, clean water, health services and medicine. Peace, security, development, employment and a sound ecosystem have increasingly become the common aspirations of most of the people. In a sense, the idea of "One Belt One Road" (Silk Road Economic Belt and Maritime Silk Road of the 21st Century) provides a viable solution to those issues. In building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century, we should carry forward the fine tradition of the ancient Silk Roads and at the same time keep up with the times and make pioneering efforts to jointly make new achievements.

*In my opinion, first, we need to work together to create an international and regional environment of enduring peace and stability.* Countries along the Silk Roads differ in size, political system, development level and cultural tradition, but share the aspiration of pursuing peace and development. We have a common destiny of shared interests. We need to commit ourselves to the security of the regions along the new overland and maritime Silk Roads, embrace the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence as the golden rule in handling state-to-state relations, and respect each other with all sincerity, treat each other as equals and live in peace and harmony. Without a peaceful and stable environment, building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century would be an empty slogan. China will stick to the path of peaceful development and reject expansion and hegemony which is a dead end. The history of the ancient Silk Roads testified that the Chinese people were envoys of peaceful and friendly exchanges and cooperation, even in the Han and Tang dynasties when the country was most strong and prosperous. In the 21st century, China still is an important force for peace and stability along the Silk Roads. We will uphold the principles of working together through consultation and sharing the benefits, and join the other countries in the world, in particular those along the Silk Roads to foster a peaceful and stable international and regional environment for building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century. This position will not change even when China becomes more developed and stronger in the future.

*Second, to build the Silk Roads for the 21st Century requires an open and inclusive mentality.* Last year I raised a viewpoint that mentality determines the state of ecology. In fact, many things in the world are influenced by people's mentality. We need both ecological progress and good mentality. The humanity today is closely interconnected in the global economy. We see flows of commodities, services, finance, data, communications, personnel and knowledge working together to profoundly change our ways of work and life. Facing this overwhelming historical trend in a highly interdependent world, countries along the Silk Roads with different cultural backgrounds and development levels need to participate in the building of the Silk Roads for the 21st Century with an open and inclusive mind to make the endeavor a success. No one should indulge in self-admiration or seek supremacy. We should stand together instead of squeezing each other out and reject the mindset of pursuing one's own development at the expense of others and envying or fearing others' development. We need to view others' development as an opportunity to ourselves, and help others develop to create more opportunities for ourselves and achieve a higher level of common development. All in all, we should all have an inclusive, kind and generous mind. In human history, no single civilization can assume primacy. The harmonious coexistence of different civilizations is the normality. No country remain at the forefront forever. The normality is mutual reinforcement through competition among all nations. Countries should respect each other's interests while pursuing their own and advance common interests of all.

*Third, the Silk Roads for the 21st Century should benefit the people in countries along the way.* We often say that the government should work to fulfill the aspirations of the people. A journalist of Xinhua News Agency once asked Ella, a 21-year-old Kazakh college girl, "If the Chinese language, oil and the Silk Road are put together, what does it first remind you of?" Ella answered with a simple word, "Jobs." Thirteen years ago, Ali, a Yemeni opened his first Saba Restaurant in Guangzhou, China. Seven years ago, he opened a second one in Yiwu, Zhejiang Province. He once said, "My dream is to get a Chinese Green Card." The driving force for building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century may come from these energetic individuals. Only by benefiting all the countries, cities, communities and the people along the Silk Roads, sharing development gains with everyone and bringing peace, security, prosperity and wealth to all, can we shape an even brighter future for the Silk Roads for the 21st century.

*Fourth, to build the Silk Roads for the 21st Century requires enhanced cooperation on ecology and environment and the development of green economy.* Both the Loulan Kingdom and the ancient Babylon Kingdom are now buried deep in the sand. Many historical cities and architectural wonders are now ruins or cultural relics. The past is past, but when building "One Belt One Road", we must learn from history and avoid making any mistakes that will sadden our future generations. I am glad to know that in the "One Belt One Road" plan that the Chinese government is drafting, ecological progress is a high priority. International cooperation on ecology and environment is expected to make all-round progress. As the first step, China and Singapore are working together on an Eco-City. China and Europe are joining efforts to build a clean energy center. Switzerland is working with Guizhou to draw an eco-village blueprint. A few days back an article in the Guizhou Daily said that there is a small village called Chuanyan in Bijie City, where stony desertification was very serious. The more land you clear, the poorer you become. Later, the local government and people changed their approach by returning the farmland to nature, growing herbs and planting fruit trees. Last year, the average per capita income there was nearly US$1000, higher than the provincial average. What an inspiring story! Today, many countries along the maritime and overland Silk Roads, including China, are faced with the challenge of balancing economic development with ecological conservation. This is also a global challenge of this century. Without economic development and improvement of people's life, or if poverty and ignorance are regarded as part of the original way of life, ecological conservation will be meaningless. On the other hand, the pursuit of a better life should not be achieved at the expense of eco-environment. President Xi had his point by saying that while we want prosperity and wealth, we also want clear water and green mountains. In fact, clear water and green mountains can bring us prosperity and wealth. I am confident that countries along the maritime and overland Silk Roads will attach high importance to green development and environmental protection cooperation. We have reasons to expect that the green Silk Roads will one day become a reality!

*Fifth, in building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century, we should both work hard and follow the natural course of development to seek steady progress.* The Silk Roads for the 21st Century, covering both land and sea routes, is a great initiative in human history and calls for extraordinary efforts. Just as Rome was not built in a day, the ancient Silk Road didn't come into being overnight. In building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century, we should also pay attention to the inherent laws governing political, economic, cultural and ecological development. The Silk Roads should feature openness and diversity. It should not only cover China's neighborhood or Asia, but also grow into a system of cooperation across different regions and sectors. It should include both sub-regional cooperation and cooperation in economic corridors, connectivity, maritime transportation routes, marine resources development and people-to-people exchanges. It should not only be an economic belt of development and prosperity but also a beautiful place where man and nature live in harmony. In building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century, we should have confidence, patience and perseverance. As long as we have strong commitment, work tenaciously to overcome the various difficulties and pass this great cause from generation to generation, the modern overland and maritime Silk Roads will expand and bring benefits to people in Asia, Europe, Africa and the entire mankind.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

How does my hometown Guizhou relate to the ancient Silk Road? I can tell you proudly that this relationship goes far back in history. As early as in the Spring and Autumn period over 2,600 years ago, the Kingdom of Chu, which is now the middle and lower reaches of the Yangtze River, was already trading goods such as silk and glassware with ancient India, and Guizhou was on the trading route. Guizhou was also an important passage of the "Southern Silk Road" the Western Han Dynasty opened over 2,000 years ago from central China to Myanmar, India and Southeast Asia. Today you can still find there traces of ancient post road and post houses. In the 1950s, Indian Prime Minister Nehru told Premier Zhou Enlai that when he was a little boy, he travelled with his grandfather to China along this ancient post road, and stopped over in the ancient town of Zhenyuan, Guizhou. The journey left him a deep and fond memory of "a ringing bell in the mountain shows the coming of horse caravans". Last year, I visited Zhenyuan for the first time, and I found that it is a place where different civilizations, cultures and religions converge. In the Qinglong Cave ancient architecture complex, one can find Buddhist monasteries, Taoist temples, Confucius academies and business retreats standing side by side, a vivid reflection of harmony between religious and secular life, and between earthly business and the spiritual world.

For years, forest coverage in Guizhou grew at an average annual growth rate of one percentage point and reached 48% last year. This growth margin ranks among the top nationwide. When most places in the world on the same latitude are deserts and wastelands, it is not easy for Guizhou to keep its mountains green and rivers clean, and this should be all the more cherished. Guizhou, like a lung on the Yangtze River economic belt and Silk Road economic belt, contributes immensely to the efforts of China and the international community in tackling climate change.

Guizhou is building a demonstration area for national ecological preservation, and the Guiyang Eco Forum Global Annual Conference is acquiring greater influence. It is encouraging to see that people in Guizhou are both working for and benefiting from ecological progress. I sincerely hope that Guizhou will match its strengths with the historic opportunities of building the new Silk Roads, steadily advance reform and opening up and explore new ways to strengthen international cooperation on ecological conservation, so as to become a pioneer and role model in building the Silk Roads for the 21st Century.

Thank you.

http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/zxxx_662805/t1173754.shtml?flv=1

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## Rahul9090

In this photo released by China's Xinhua News Agency, police officers stand guard near a blast site which has been cordoned off in downtown Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang, on May 22. (Cao Zhiheng/AP)





Chinese authorities in the restive far western region of Xinjiang have been forcing Muslim students at universities to eat during the daytime, violating their fast during the holy month of Ramadan. That's according toa BBC report, citing three Muslims who spoke on the condition of anonymity. Xinjiang is the homeland of ethnic Uighurs,a Turkic Muslim minoritywhose religion and language sets them considerably apart from much of China.

According to the BBC, students were compelled to dine with their professors, and those who refused risked sanction from university officials. "If you want a normal life here then you'd better not fast," said one student.

The Chinese state, per communist strictures, has always been atheist, but itscrackdown on Ramadanhas much more to do with current politics. China has seena spate of shocking terror attackswhich Beijing attributes to jihadist militant networks operating in Xinjiang and Central Asia.

The Chinese response to the perceived threat has been severe: President Xi Jinpingdramatically calledfor "nets spread from earth to the sky" to combat terrorism and urged party officials to help "religion adapt to a socialist society." Whatever that means, Uighurs in Xinjiang havelong complainedabout Beijing's systematic repression of their distinct identity and cultural practices. This year, according to the students quoted by the BBC, university departments across the region are enforcing the ban on fasting. Uighur medical staff at a government hospital were even made to sign a written pledge guaranteeing that they wouldn't fast during Ramadan.

The Uighurs' brand of Islam is known forhistoric syncretism; it is steeped in Sufi traditions, and one of Xinjiang's holiest sites isa tomb of a 17th century concubineto the Chinese emperor. But in recent years, there has been a growing radicalization, in part a consequence of China's heavy-handed handling of the region.

As discussedhere, Chinese policies in Xinjiang have led to the downgrading of the Uighur language, restrictions on religious gatherings, mass round-ups of suspected dissidents and the bulldozing of much of Kashgar's Old City, the symbolic heart of the Uighur culture. In that context, being forced to eat lunch is perhaps not the worst injustice.




China’s war on Ramadan sees Muslim students forced to break fast - The Washington Post


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## Jaanbaz

Kashgar is home to a significant Muslim Uighur population

*Several university students from China's western region of Xinjiang have told the BBC that they are being banned from fasting during the month of Ramadan.*

The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed as they fear government reprisals for speaking about a sensitive issue.

But they told us they were being forced to have meals with professors to ensure they were not fasting.

Those who refuse to eat risk being punished by officials.

One student told us, "If you want a normal life here then you'd better not fast."

Xinjiang is home to the Uighur ethnic minority - most of whom are Muslim.

Beijing blames a string of recent attacks on Muslim extremists and what it calls overseas terrorist groups.

On Thursday, courts in Xinjiang handed 32 people prison terms for downloading or sending "violent terror" videos.

Many Uighurs, however, say the violence is being fuelled by Beijing's repression of their cultural and religious beliefs.

The students who spoke to the BBC said that fasting was banned in all universities across the region.

Several government departments are also enforcing a ban.

One government hospital even got Muslim staff to sign a written pledge promising not to fast.

Fasting during the month of Ramadan - when the faithful do not eat or drink from sunrise to sunset - is considered one of the five pillars of Islam.

Traditionally, children, pregnant women, the sick and those travelling are exempt from fasting.

As part of a propaganda drive, state-run newspapers in Xinjiang have been running editorials warning about the health dangers of not eating and drinking.

This is not the first time the Chinese authorities have restricted fasting in Xinjiang.

But with the restrictions coming amidst growing violence in the region, it is likely to exacerbate tensions.

The students we spoke to at Kashgar Normal University said those Uighurs refusing to eat received official warnings, which could seriously affect their future career prospects.

In some cases, students could even be denied by their degrees.

"Most of us would like to fast," said one of the students. "But with the current situation most of us have decided against it."

BBC News - China Xinjiang: Muslim students 'made to eat' at Ramadan

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## third eye

China’s war on Ramadan sees Muslim students forced to break fast

Meanwhile this is waht Pakistan says !!

Pakistan says no ban on fasting in China

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## Jaanbaz

liall said:


> what can Pakistan even do?



Nothing. Its China's internal matter but this banning the fasts will eventually make things worse. Even the younger generation who want to reject extremism will now see China as an oppressor.

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## JAT BALWAN

western prop. media...


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## Android

Jaanbaz said:


> Nothing. Its China's internal matter but this banning the fasts will eventually make things worse. Even the younger generation who want to reject extremism will now see China as an oppressor.



Or it can work the other way it will make younger generation less and less religious making Uighur community more integrated with generally atheistic Chinese society


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## pigtaker

Jaanbaz said:


> Nothing. Its China's internal matter but this banning the fasts will eventually make things worse. Even the younger generation who want to reject extremism will now see China as an oppressor.


you see the world as opperssor no matter what. US, Russia, Europe, india etc, just name a few. we are already geg used to it and not care.

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## kankan326

Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.

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## HariPrasad

The so calle islamic countries have always played politics on the name of Islam. They always whine that Muslims are not safe in country like US,India, UK etc which gives them full right and protection and on other hand ends up remaining silent where the Muslims are tortured and killed. None of Muslim country will raise a voice against china for their atrocity on Muslims.

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## third eye

Jaanbaz said:


> *Nothing. Its China's internal matter* but this banning the fasts will eventually make things worse. Even the younger generation who want to reject extremism will now see China as an oppressor.



Hmmm..

Was the Babri Masjid India's internal matter ?

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## ghoul

As much as I respect China, and dislike extremists, this is pure oppression. Oppressor should be fought back with full rage and recklessness.

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## Daedalus

kankan326 said:


> Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.


So, what are you suggesting, converting them back to Buddhism?


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## mujhaidind

kankan326 said:


> Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors.


Good to see that Indian Hinduvadis and Chinse Taoist/Buddhist/communist agree on some thing.

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## djsjs

LOL, if one can be made NOT to eat in the name of religion, why cannot be made to eat in the name of humanitarian and human nature.one can have the right to follow some religion ,but not have the right to force his children do ......

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## xuxu1457

“*The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed as they fear government reprisals for speaking about a sensitive issue.

But they told us they were being forced to have meals with professors to ensure they were not fasting.

Those who refuse to eat risk being punished by officials.*”
Now I know that one “Lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth”， I think if I send a email to BBS said that I am in danger please help me, BBC will publish next day.
"*they were being forced to have meals with professors*" "*The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed*" this should be moved to joke thread.
Do Kashi Normal University has "professor"??????
1.the university only has teachers without "professors" since there is not any Ph.D..
2.Even at other universities which have PH.D, professors only give lessons and do their own research；Only counselors do the job of administration and management.
3. "*being forced to have meals*" does any one believe this thing be done by a man with IQ>-80

This university has 12000students, about 97 counselor, 1 should invite 130 students to "eat meat", he should spend half year and 1300$ to finish the job, then Ramadan only 1 month, Do they have any logic do such stupid thing?

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## third eye

mujhaidind said:


> Good to see that Indian Hinduvadis and Chinse Taoist/Buddhist/communist agree on some thing.



With Modi at the helm, rest assured you will see more and more 'agreement' .

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## kankan326

Daedalus said:


> So, what are you suggesting, converting them back to Buddhism?


Check the topic of this thread. We are doing the right thing.

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## mujhaidind

Victory said:


> not all, i can trust shias


 Shows how ignorant you are.



Bharatvarsha said:


> Shias only recently have become "secular" because they are getting genocided by sunnis around the world, be it Pakistan or Arab world, and need support from us. If the Sunnis werent killing them, the shias and the sunnis would together come after us like they did in 47.


 That's true Shia rulers were the worst persecutors of Hindus. He a delusional Hinduvadi. Shia might vote for communal BJp only to counter us sunni. They try to use deception every time.


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## Sriram

kankan326 said:


> Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.



Good to hear

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## a hashmi

Wouldn't trust the BBC as far as I could throw them.

They only air inaccuracies and portray a story which has very little relevance to the actual event. As with most of the mainstream Western media, they operate a psy-ops for their respective security organizations. You can see this most vividly in the current onslaught on the Palestinian concentration camp.

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## Arya Desa

Absolutely sickening that the chinese have to regiment people's lives.

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## halupridol

the nth thread on same topic.......


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## xuxu1457

“*The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed as they fear government reprisals for speaking about a sensitive issue.

But they told us they were being forced to have meals with professors to ensure they were not fasting.

Those who refuse to eat risk being punished by officials.*”
Now I know that one “Lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth”， I think if I send a email to BBS said that I am in danger please help me, BBC will publish next day.
"*they were being forced to have meals with professors*" "*The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed*" this should be moved to joke thread.
Do Kashi Normal University has "professor"??????
1.the university only has teachers without "professors" since there is not any Ph.D..
2.Even at other universities which have PH.D, professors only give lessons and do their own research；Only counselors do the job of administration and management.
3. "*being forced to have meals*" does any one believe this thing be done by a man with IQ>-80

This university has 12000students, about 97 counselor, 1 should invite 130 students to "eat meat", he should spend half year and 1300$ to finish the job, then Ramadan only 1 month, Do they have any logic do such stupid thing?


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## Arya Desa

Bharatvarsha said:


> Whats wrong with it? China is doing whats in their national interests, and I fully support them.



Cause you're an idiot blinded by islamophobia. They are infringing on a basic human right.


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## pigtaker

Arya Desa said:


> You don't have the capacity or the willpower. Once your only friend pakistan leaves you, who will you have left?


friend? you are so naive. money and power bring in the firend not other way around. That is why US has so many pawns while nobody rush to india. 

As for our capacity, it is beyond your understanding.


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## ghoul

pigtaker said:


> good, maybe it is time for us to seal off the China pakistan border, settling this problem once for all. If you dare to infiltrate your jahadists into our territory, you will see our drones operating over your sky like US did.



No need to be all hostile. I don't support terrorists but I sympathize with all the oppressed underdogs like Native Americans, Australian aboriginals etc. It's my opinion. And Pakistan won't send in Jihadists as it can't afford more enemies.

But coming back to my original opinion. If some oppressor invaded my ethnic homeland and settled thousands of aliens there, I would pour boiling water down their throats. 

All oppressed nations need their own Geronimo;


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## Farooq

I never realized how anti-Islamic the Chinese are-
I am starting to see why Uighur hate the Chinese so much ...


its funny how the Chinese on this forum were first denying this story as "Western propaganda" and now the very deniers are supporting this oppressive policy banning fasting


good going "chinese brothers" !

after this move by china, I believe the Pakistani government should carefully rethink about this "strategic and brotherly love " BS policy with China. 

Otherwise, tomorrow China will launch drone attacks on Pakistani soil just as US is doing today

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## xuxu1457

Truth finder---XUXU No.1
Ok, truth finder is coming, today I saw one thread named
"
*China Xinjiang: Muslim students 'made to eat' at Ramadan*
"
at China Xinjiang: Muslim students 'made to eat' at Ramadan
First come from *BBC* time "*11 July 2014Last updated at 10:46*"，*By Martin Patience BBC News, Beijing， note that the writer stay in Beijing and write a paper about Kashi of Xinjiang, *


Jaanbaz said:


> Kashgar is home to a significant Muslim Uighur population
> 
> *Several university students from China's western region of Xinjiang have told the BBC that they are being banned from fasting during the month of Ramadan.*
> 
> The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed as they fear government reprisals for speaking about a sensitive issue.
> 
> But they told us they were being forced to have meals with professors to ensure they were not fasting.
> 
> Those who refuse to eat risk being punished by officials.
> 
> One student told us, "If you want a normal life here then you'd better not fast."
> 
> Xinjiang is home to the Uighur ethnic minority - most of whom are Muslim.
> 
> Beijing blames a string of recent attacks on Muslim extremists and what it calls overseas terrorist groups.
> 
> On Thursday, courts in Xinjiang handed 32 people prison terms for downloading or sending "violent terror" videos.
> 
> Many Uighurs, however, say the violence is being fuelled by Beijing's repression of their cultural and religious beliefs.
> 
> The students who spoke to the BBC said that fasting was banned in all universities across the region.
> 
> Several government departments are also enforcing a ban.
> 
> One government hospital even got Muslim staff to sign a written pledge promising not to fast.
> 
> Fasting during the month of Ramadan - when the faithful do not eat or drink from sunrise to sunset - is considered one of the five pillars of Islam.
> 
> Traditionally, children, pregnant women, the sick and those travelling are exempt from fasting.
> 
> As part of a propaganda drive, state-run newspapers in Xinjiang have been running editorials warning about the health dangers of not eating and drinking.
> 
> This is not the first time the Chinese authorities have restricted fasting in Xinjiang.
> 
> But with the restrictions coming amidst growing violence in the region, it is likely to exacerbate tensions.
> 
> The students we spoke to at Kashgar Normal University said those Uighurs refusing to eat received official warnings, which could seriously affect their future career prospects.
> 
> In some cases, students could even be denied by their degrees.
> 
> "Most of us would like to fast," said one of the students. "But with the current situation most of us have decided against it."
> 
> BBC News - China Xinjiang: Muslim students 'made to eat' at Ramadan



*Find: then I wanted to find the truth, I went to the Baidu forum of kashi normal university, in which it has 9097 members from Kashi university, and 1,251,793 threads. 
喀什师范学院吧_百度贴吧

THen I find the biggest joke: they are all left the University, since Summer vacation of Kashi univerisity beggin from 11 July the same day when the writer wrote the news "11 July 2014Last updated at 10:46", and he said that students told that "they were forced to eat meat with professors". 
@Farooq 

@ComplexVariable, 

@peacekeeper, 
2Ashoka The Great, 
@a hashmi, 


@EyanKhan, 
@iajdani,
@PakistaniandProud, 
@liall, 
@cleverrider, 
@datalibdaz,
@jroll, 
@onebyone, 
@Pakistanisage, 
@Syedirfan787,
@Pakistani sipahi, 
@amitkriit, 
@Tariq Kohawar,
@TheFlyingPretzel, 
@STEELMAN, 
@Victory,
@RisingShiningSuperpower, 
@anHuman,
@suresh1773, 
@jaiind, 
@guru1, 
@toropiski, 
@ali_raza,
@ExtraOdinary, 
@zip, 
@Cossack25A1, 
@desert warrior,
@SUDIP, 
@HunterKiller, 
@mAsT bAbA, 
@salman108, 
@Lux de Veritas, 
@AUSTERLITZ, 
@Pak123, 
@a.kumar,
@TejasMk3, 
@Nitin Goyal, 
@Arya Desa, 
@Phukimak,
@MALIK KHAN, 
@whitefox011, 
@mymeaningislion,
@Jazzbot, 
@Redfern73, 
@doc.wab
*

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## punit

mujhaidind said:


> We don't hate Hindustan. We want India to be merged with its divided parts again. And become a grand nation it was.
> .



GREEN PIGS WILL FLY THAT DAY ~!



mujhaidind said:


> We don't hate Hindustan. We want India to be merged with its divided parts again. And become a grand nation it was.
> .



GREEN PIGS WILL FLY THT DAY ~!


mujhaidind said:


> Shows how ignorant you are.
> 
> 
> That's true Shia rulers were the worst persecutors of Hindus. He a delusional Hinduvadi. Shia might vote for communal BJp only to counter us sunni. They try to use deception every time.


lUCKNOW/ awadh ruled by shias was much more tolerant than other sunni ruled regions.


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## ExtraOdinary

hahaha trolls will infest this thread. OT their country their rules


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## Daedalus

kankan326 said:


> Check the topic of this thread. We are doing the right thing.


Hold your horses, I was asking a genuine question. And only time will tell if this was a right thing to do, as no other country had the guts to do this kind of thing before. I do hope this thing pays off in a good way. I don't want to see this infection spreading to china.


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## Rahul9090

liall said:


> Just wait bro. Modi will bring India and China closer. He is already pro China seen with his visits to China when he was GJ CM. And I am sure we will settle border disputes very soon with China.



disputes will remain we are not giving away AP ,but we will certainly form an alliance to fight against these Islamic terrorists in Afghanistan! iran ,china,india is the way to go to... we must encircle pakistan from every where possible for this we need china and iran

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## Zabaniyah

How does banning fasting in a hostile and Muslim populated region improve security?

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## IceCold

third eye said:


> China’s war on Ramadan sees Muslim students forced to break fast
> 
> Meanwhile this is waht Pakistan says !!
> 
> Pakistan says no ban on fasting in China



And you are dragging Pakistan in because?

I hope you do realize that we have our own source for information and not necessarily rely on BBC which is known for its propaganda against China. 

Never the less even if the news is said to be true its China internal matter and unlike Indians who like to jump on to anything, we don't. And for the love of God don't start comparing it with Kashmir.

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## Zabaniyah

Farooq said:


> I never realized how anti-Islamic the Chinese are-



They can be. What? People didn't know?

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## third eye

Farooq said:


> I never realized how anti-Islamic the Chinese are-
> I am starting to see why Uighur hate the Chinese so much ...
> 
> 
> its funny how the Chinese on this forum were first denying this story as "Western propaganda" and now the very deniers are supporting this oppressive policy banning fasting
> 
> 
> good going "chinese brothers" !
> 
> after this move by china, I believe the Pakistani government should carefully rethink about this "strategic and brotherly love " BS policy with China.
> 
> Otherwise, tomorrow China will launch drone attacks on Pakistani soil just as US is doing today



Both Flags flown by you - Country of Origin & location are N Korean.

Are you a Muslim of N Korean origin ?

@Web Master 



IceCold said:


> And you are dragging Pakistan in because?
> 
> I hope you do realize that we have our own source for information and not necessarily rely on BBC which is known for its propaganda against China.
> 
> Never the less even if the news is said to be true its China internal matter and unlike Indians who like to jump on to anything, we don't. And for the love of God don't start comparing it with Kashmir.



I mentioned what I did because there was a thread on the subject running with a statement from Pakistan denying what the whole world & Chinese admit.

We'd be curious to know of the ' own sources ' Pak has which even the Chinese dont .

If denying someone his religious right is an internal matter of a nation , would you also consider Babri Masjid an internal matter of India or are there different strokes for different folks ?

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## Arya Desa

IceCold said:


> And you are dragging Pakistan in because?
> 
> I hope you do realize that we have our own source for information and not necessarily rely on BBC which is known for its propaganda against China.
> 
> *Never the less even if the news is said to be true its China internal matter and unlike Indians who like to jump on to anything, we don't.* And for the love of God don't start comparing it with Kashmir.



What is Babri Mosque incident?
What is 2002 Gujarat civil unrest incident?
What is Israel-palistine issue?

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## IceCold

third eye said:


> I mentioned what I did because there was a thread on the subject running with a statement from Pakistan denying what the whole world & Chinese admit.
> 
> We'd be curious to know of the ' own sources ' Pak has which even the Chinese dont .
> 
> If denying someone his religious right is an internal matter of a nation , would you also consider Babri Masjid an internal matter of India or are there different strokes for different folks ?



Babri Masjid was India's internal matter but than again you being a mature and a senior member should not have a problem understanding a simple fact that indeed there are different strokes for different folks based on national interests unless you imply that the same is not true for India. Indians all over this forum justifying Israel attacks on Ghaza and even officially India has not condemned but rather used the word restraint while if Pakistanis talk about striking Afghanistan, Indians are all over accusing us of violating a sovereign territory and accusing us of being hypocrites not allowing US or India to do the same in Pakistan.

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## atatwolf

This is what happens when Muslim lands fall under foreingwrs .. this would also happened in Pakistan if India was successful taking it


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## IceCold

Arya Desa said:


> What is Babri Mosque incident?
> What is 2002 Gujarat civil unrest incident?
> What is Israel-palistine issue?



What about them? Dont you guys do the same for Balochistan, Killing of Shia's and many other accounts. 

And what about Israel Palestine issue, are you comparing the two? with one being bombed to oblivion while the others as per BBC are not allowed to fast? There is simply no connection between the two but only for an Indian.


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## halupridol

third eye said:


> I mentioned what I did because there was a thread on the subject running with a statement from Pakistan denying what the whole world & Chinese admit.
> 
> We'd be curious to know of the ' own sources ' Pak has which even the Chinese dont .
> 
> If denying someone his religious right is an internal matter of a nation , would you also consider Babri Masjid an internal matter of India or are there different strokes for different folks ?


hey,,,hold ur horses..
hes a gud guy,,,, rarely comments on Indias internal matters


IceCold said:


> Babri Masjid was India's internal matter but than again you being a mature and a senior member should not have a problem understanding a simple fact that indeed there are different strokes for different folks based on national interests unless you imply that the same is not true for India. Indians all over this forum justifying Israel attacks on Ghaza and even officially India has not condemned but rather used the word restraint while if Pakistanis talk about striking Afghanistan, Indians are all over accusing us of violating a sovereign territory and accusing us of being hypocrites not allowing US or India to do the same in Pakistan.


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## areal

BBC is a liar as soon as it reported China.


xuxu1457 said:


> “*The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed as they fear government reprisals for speaking about a sensitive issue.
> 
> But they told us they were being forced to have meals with professors to ensure they were not fasting.
> 
> Those who refuse to eat risk being punished by officials.*”
> Now I know that one “Lie repeated a thousand times becomes the truth”， I think if I send a email to BBS said that I am in danger please help me, BBC will publish next day.
> "*they were being forced to have meals with professors*" "*The three Muslim students we spoke to the BBC did not want their identities revealed*" this should be moved to joke thread.
> Do Kashi Normal University has "professor"??????
> 1.the university only has teachers without "professors" since there is not any Ph.D..
> 2.Even at other universities which have PH.D, professors only give lessons and do their own research；Only counselors do the job of administration and management.
> 3. "*being forced to have meals*" does any one believe this thing be done by a man with IQ>-80
> 
> This university has 12000students, about 97 counselor, 1 should invite 130 students to "eat meat", he should spend half year and 1300$ to finish the job, then Ramadan only 1 month, Do they have any logic do such stupid thing?

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## Erhabi

pigtaker said:


> you blow up all around the world and call yourself oppressed, If you dare, bring in your divine holy sword into our country, let us say how brave you are.
> 
> without the help of US and China, you believe you can defeat the mighty ex-soviets? what a joke


first of all he is an indian troll just made his account to spill more BS in the name of religion
(mods shud take action)..n secondly this news is fake..n stop hating on muslims


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## Areesh

kankan326 said:


> Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.



Not going to happen buddy. Many people tried to do same and ended up in the dust bin of the history. 

It will not eliminate terrorism. It will only invite terrorists from other parts of the world to Xinjiang. It won't be Uighur problem anymore.


----------



## third eye

IceCold said:


> *Babri Masjid was India's internal matter* but than again you being a mature and a senior member should not have a problem understanding a simple fact that indeed there are different strokes for different folks based on national interests unless you imply that the same is not true for India. Indians all over this forum justifying Israel attacks on Ghaza and even officially India has not condemned but rather used the word restraint while if Pakistanis talk about striking Afghanistan, Indians are all over accusing us of violating a sovereign territory and accusing us of being hypocrites not allowing US or India to do the same in Pakistan.



Thank you 

I appreciate you putting things in perspective.

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## Arya Desa

IceCold said:


> What about them? Dont you guys do the same for Balochistan, Killing of Shia's and many other accounts.
> 
> And what about Israel Palestine issue, are you comparing the two? with one being bombed to oblivion while the others as per BBC are not allowed to fast? There is simply no connection between the two but only for an Indian.



You seem to not remember your own words.



> *Never the less even if the news is said to be true its China internal matter and unlike Indians who like to jump on to anything, we don't.*



You said pakistanis don't jump on internal issues of countries. Then I pointed out 3 prominent cases, and you said India does the same. That is irrelevant. I clearly showed you instances where pakistan interferes in other country's internal issues.

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## pigtaker

Malik Abdullah said:


> first of all he is an indian troll just made his account to spill more BS in the name of religion
> (mods shud take action)..n secondly this news is fake..n stop hating on muslims


nobody hate you muslimes, this is not an issue here. But don't try to poke your finger into our domestic issue in the name of islam, or it will get burned.

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## anyrandom

kankan326 said:


> Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.



It's one of those things I like about chinese. That's why I think that India and China can be great allies against Islamists.

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## anyrandom

and to the so-called mujhaidind muslim extremist here who wants to join pakistan with india:

Do you think we are morons and idiots? We can understand that why so-called muslim patriots of India want negation of partition. It's because then India will become muslim majority and again there will be muslim raj over the Indian subcontinent. It's their wet dreams of a born again mughal empire. Its better the subcontinent stay divided. It would have been even better if all muslims were asked to leave to pakistan during partition. Unfortunately we had short sighted people like Gandhi and Nehru.

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## Jaanbaz

Android said:


> Or it can work the other way it will make younger generation less and less religious making Uighur community more integrated with generally atheistic Chinese society



It will work in urban areas. But the rural communities will probably reject forceful conversion to Atheism. Which in turn will create divisions and hatred against the Chinese State. Sooner or later USA and Western nations will exploit these divisions. 

You can't force people into religion or being non religious. It creates unnecessary tensions and hate. Soviet Union tried to take Central Asians away from Islam and their Turkic culture. But now we are seeing many Central Asians turning to Islam and their Turkic roots again.

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## Arya Desa

pigtaker said:


> *nobody hate you muslimes*, this is not an issue here. But don't try to poke your finger into our domestic issue in the name of islam, or it will get burned.



Muslimes? That is incredibly offensive. How dare you call anyone slime?


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## Jaanbaz

anyrandom said:


> and to the so-called mujhaidind muslim extremist here who wants to join pakistan with india:
> 
> Do you think we are morons and idiots? We can understand that why so-called muslim patriots of India want negation of partition. It's because then India will become muslim majority and again there will be muslim raj over the Indian subcontinent. It's their wet dreams of a born again mughal empire. Its better the subcontinent stay divided. It would have been even better if all muslims were asked to leave to pakistan during partition. Unfortunately we had short sighted people like Gandhi and Nehru.



Thank you for proving that Muslims in India must now fight for their independence because they risk another genocide at the hands of saffron chaddi wearing clowns like you and Modi.

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## Arya Desa

pigtaker said:


> you disgusting ***hole of pakis, got our of my country stoping being a parasite if you ever have a little self-respect.



Wow, just wow. That's what you think of pakistanis?


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## Jaanbaz

third eye said:


> Hmmm..
> 
> Was the Babri Masjid India's internal matter ?



It was.


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## mujhaidind

China is openly supporting Naxal/Maoists. India should support Mujhaideen in China.

These Chinese can't handle Mujhaideen. We are easily squashing them chinese spnosored naxals.

Good opportunity for India.

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## Arya Desa

mujhaidind said:


> China is openly supporting Naxal/Maoists. India should support Mujhaideen in China.
> 
> These Chinese can't handle Mujhaideen. We are easily squashing them chinese spnosored naxals.
> 
> Good opportunity for India.



If we do they will slaughter millions of innocent uighurs. I can't stand the death of innocent people. chinas have a history of heavy handed measures.

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## anyrandom

Jaanbaz said:


> Thank you for proving that Muslims in India must now fight for their independence because they risk another genocide at the hands of saffron chaddi wearing clowns like you and Modi.



It's nothing surprising.......muslims have a habit of demanding till infinity. First they wanted pakistan so that they can live 'peacefully' and then the leftovers who stayed in INdia because they were too selfish to leave behind their property will demand a partition again?
God damm the rights of hindu over their land and culture...who are these kaafir hindus to have any right...we muslims own the world and allah is the only true god.

That is how you guys think. Whereever muslims form substantial part of a population they start making trouble whether it's Russia, China, Australia, Britain or India. They have a persecution complex. No matter which country they live in they always consider themselves to be persecuted.

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## Erhabi

Arya Desa said:


> Wow, just wow. That's what you think of pakistanis?



yeah foreign students pay 100 times more thn the chinese students in tuition n accommodation fees n hez calling us a parasite..hell the money ive spent in 4 years is more thn he can ever earn in his life.


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## Jaanbaz

anyrandom said:


> It's nothing surprising.......muslims have a habit of demanding till infinity. First they wanted pakistan so that they can live 'peacefully' and then the leftovers who stayed in INdia because they were too selfish to leave behind their property will demand a partition again?
> God damm the rights of hindu over their land and culture...who are these kaafir hindus to have any right...we muslims own the world and allah is the only true god.
> 
> That is how you guys think. Whereever muslims form substantial part of a population they start making trouble whether it's Russia, China, Australia, Britain or India. They have a persecution complex. No matter which country they live in they always consider themselves to be persecuted.



You can't even take jokes. What are you 12 years old? Silly brainwashed arm chair ''warrior''. Don't get your panties in twist, I don't care what happens in India.


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## Erhabi

Bharatvarsha said:


> Hows the dating scene in China for brown guys? Get any Chinese booty? I have always had a thing for East Asian girls, they are pretty cute


No disrespect to any other chinese..they r very nice n respectful people..there r bad apples everywhere..so you keep ur indi *** out of it


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## xuxu1457

areal said:


> BBC is a liar as soon as it reported China.


First come from *BBC* time "*11 July 2014Last updated at 10:46*"，*By Martin Patience BBC News, Beijing， note that the writer stay in Beijing and write a paper about Kashi of Xinjiang,*


*Find: then I wanted to find the truth, I went to the Baidu forum of kashi normal university, in which it has 9097 members from Kashi university, and 1,251,793 threads.
喀什师范学院吧_百度贴吧

THen I find the biggest joke: they are all left the University, since Summer vacation of Kashi univerisity beggin from 11 July the same day when the writer wrote the news "11 July 2014Last updated at 10:46", and he said that students told that "they were forced to eat meat with professors". *

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## anyrandom

Jaanbaz said:


> You can't even take jokes. What are you 12 years old? Silly brainwashed arm chair ''warrior''. Don't get your panties in twist, I don't care what happens in India.



Oh yeah why should you? Afterall who cares about kufrs. You see if I am a muslim I don't need to think about all those silly things.
It's Allah or no-one, its muslims or no-one.

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## Arya Desa

Malik Abdullah said:


> yeah foreign students pay 100 times more thn the chinese students in tuition n accommodation fees n hez calling us a parasite..hell the money ive spent in 4 years is more thn he can ever earn in his life.



I feel you can't ever be friends with them. In your face they will act all nice but they have such intense hatred inside of them against everyone and they generalize like crazy. One person of an ethinicity does something to them or did something to china and they will hate your whole people. We desis dislike eachothers countries, but outside of them we treat eachother like family. chinas would never do that.

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## IceCold

Arya Desa said:


> You seem to not remember your own words.
> 
> 
> 
> You said pakistanis don't jump on internal issues of countries. Then I pointed out 3 prominent cases, and you said India does the same. That is irrelevant. I clearly showed you instances where pakistan interferes in other country's internal issues.



I do but it is you who needs to read my post in the context it is written and not cherry pick and twist to suit your agenda because I also happen to explain the reason in post# 65 you conveniently excluded in your debate. And tell me why is it irrelevant to bring in India when it was your brethren who brought Pakistan into the discussion. The example of India was as relevant as when you brought in Pakistan to score brownie points.


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## aliaselin

No wonder. They often take photoes from Internet and make news in their living room.


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## Arya Desa

mujhaidind said:


> Give them aks,rocket launchers and some grenades. And they are good. China is only ethnic cleansing them because they are un-armed. Once they get armed even Chinese are no match for Allah's Soliders.



True. They aren't a people know for their fighting prowess. I heard in the Korean War they lost 1 million men while America+ Korea lost less than 50,000 total.

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## IceCold

pigtaker said:


> nobody hate you muslimes, this is not an issue here. But don't try to poke your finger into our domestic issue in the name of islam, or it will get burned.



And why would we poke finger to a friendly country? Your threat is uncalled for. And just so you know not everyone wearing a green flag happens to be from Pakistan.


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## IceCold

Malik Abdullah said:


> No disrespect to any other chinese..they r very nice n respectful people..there r bad apples everywhere..so you keep ur indi *** out of it



You brother need to clam down. Indians are having a field day. Lets not give them a reason. I am sure senior chinese members understand this fact newcomers on the other hand will need some time to grasp this reality.

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## Erhabi

Arya Desa said:


> I feel you can't ever be friends with them. In your face they will act all nice but they have such intense hatred inside of them against everyone and they generalize like crazy. One person of an ethinicity does something to them or did something to china and they will hate your whole people.* We desis dislike eachothers countries, but outside of them we treat eachother like family*. chinas would never do that.



i got awesome chinese friends n all of them are very nice n hospitable..it is you who is generalizing..n i agree with the bold part..outside we desis feel close to eachother


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## Chronos

Arya Desa said:


> True. *They aren't a people know for their fighting prowess.* I heard in the Korean War they lost 1 million men while America+ Korea lost less than 50,000 total.



Until the Mongols came along, during their time, they were the premier military power in the world. Chinese fortifications, battle tactics were legendary.

China has a long history of civilization and battle scars through thousands of years of combat.

The Chinese hand us Indians a beating in 1962.

If Chinese aren't Martially proficient, then Indians are on a whole level of pathetic then

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## Chronos

mujhaidind said:


> Why do you want to mess your bloodline with chinese blood? Just look at how ugly these Chinese-Indian hybrids are.
> 
> If you claim to be a hindu. Then you should know your scriptures say that it isn't right for you to marry/have relationship with mlecchas(Chinese).



Your racism is hilarious.

And hypocritical, considering you victim monger about Muslims, but then are openly racist to the Chinese.

8/10 for trolling.

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## Chronos

mujhaidind said:


> Hinduvadis just love the Chinese enemy. We lost cuz of Nehru. If he had used the airforce, outcome would have been different.
> 
> *Just read stories of how Indian soliders single-handedly slaughtered dozens of Chinese soliders*.



could have, would have, should have. At the end of the day the Chinese had better tactics. It's part of war.

In Modern war, the country who is the better motivated, better trained, has the better technology wins. Not a foolhardy concept of manhood.

You are welcome to send weapons to the Xinjiang brothers in arms. Then we might really know what the Chinese military is made of.

My guess is, it won't end well.

Now, I am against the Chinese infringing on the religious freedoms of Muslims. But it is hilarious you call me a Hindutvawaadi, cry discrimination against Muslims, but then write racial attacks against Chinese.

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## third eye

Arya Desa said:


> *south Indians sure are militarly pathetic but not us*.
> 
> .



What do you base this on ?


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## liaoliaoeryi

1. More long history one country has, more quarrel has it, especially which is formed by different ethnic groups.
2. Keeping different ethnic groups harmony is not easy.
3. For china having 56 ethnic groups, most are harmonious with han groups, except Uighur,tibetan.
It shows If relation is bad,the reason is not only han, but also Uighur.
4. Why not to eat one day?Since children,pregnant can eat,why not for adult.Is it really good to health?Personally i think it begins with college, it is because college student know sciences.


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## mujhaidind

acid rain said:


> Take your terrorism supporting out of India to where it actually belongs, i.e. to your brothers, you piece of sh!t. Go and support your mujahid brothers from somewhere else.


 I am asking you to do, the same thing China our enemy is doing to us. You are calling me terrorist?

What do you call Hinduvadis who support China?


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## liall

Arya Desa said:


> They really are western wannabes yet they look like they are Africans. Sometimes I get confused in Canada and think they are Somalian or something until they start speaking or I get in proximity to smell them



rofl smell them? being an Indian and stereotyping other Indians on smell make me feel like you are the western wannabe. That too trash western wannabe for educated ones dont even stereotype like you just did.

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## Chronos

Arya Desa said:


> *No, that is state-sponsored propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Pre-emptive sticked us and we literally ran out of ammunition cause they used human wave tactic. Not a proud victory of theirs.
> 
> 
> 
> south Indians sure are militarly pathetic but not us.*
> 
> 
> 
> He is a typical islamophobe. He also has an unnatural hatred of Punjabis too. Truly a sick man.



are these responses seriously a rebuttal.

You can resarch credible historical jouranls/articles. But it was the truth. Until Genghis, The Chinese possessed one of the most sophisticated armies in the world. They had complex siege engines, sophisticated fortifications. China was divided at the time and kingdoms like the Golden Khanate were manned by mercenaries. And Genghis, for one of the first times united the fierce steppe tribes.

Using Siege engineers, Chinese military technology, Genghis ran roughshod over significant parts of Europe and Asia.

So no, not state propaganda, but a consensus agreed by explorers at that time and many accredited and notable historiains of today as well.

And if you haven't noticed, War is not a gnetleman's game. You use any underhanded trick to win.

Ain't no such thing as proud victory. In a war if you lose, you lose the right to define history books, as simple as that.

No amount of barrel chested Punjabi could have prevented that as the gun is a great equalizer.

Next time, I expect you to tax your brain (however hard it may be for you) more and come up with rebuttals based on fact, not on empty bravado fueled by internet anonymity.

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## acid rain

mujhaidind said:


> Give them aks,rocket launchers and some grenades. And they are good. China is only ethnic cleansing them because they are un-armed. Once they get armed even Chinese are no match for Allah's Soliders.



Do we look like we give a rats @ss to what happens to them? China is more important to us then them.

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## Arya Desa

liall said:


> rofl smell them? being an Indian and stereotyping other Indians on smell make me feel like you are the western wannabe. That too trash western wannabe for educated ones dont even stereotype like you just did.



...


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## Zabaniyah

liaoliaoeryi said:


> 4. Why not to eat one day?Since children,pregnant can eat,why not for adult.Is it really good to health?Personally i think it begins with college, it is because college student know sciences.



In regards to fasting during Ramadan, I'm afraid it doesn't at all work that way.


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## Chronos

liall said:


> rofl smell them? being an Indian and stereotyping other Indians on smell make me feel like you are the western wannabe. That too trash western wannabe for educated ones dont even stereotype like you just did.



@liall leave him. He had to change his previous avatar because one of the moderators found it was racist.

As well as making a bunch of heinous racist comments in the past. You know where these guys come from.


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## Kesang

Discouraging religion indirectly is fine but probhiting religious rights directly shooud be stop. But again, it is none of our business.

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## Chronos

mujhaidind said:


> Your double-standards are more hilarious. On one hand you dislike Indian Muslims. On other hand you love Chinese enemy who wnats to disintegrate India.



which is funny, because I distrust BJP and Hindutvawaadis.

But hey make snap judgements all you want.



mujhaidind said:


> So true these South-Indians always take anti-Indian stance. Whether support Dravidian politicians or the Chinese. They bash Muslims but forget Christians are on a conversion rampage.



And you support mass murderers. Good for you.

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## Erhabi

its just a western propaganda against China..thanks for pointing it out Xuxu


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## acid rain

mujhaidind said:


> I am asking you to do, the same thing China our enemy is doing to us. You are calling me terrorist?
> 
> What do you call Hinduvadis who support China?



We dont need a mujji kook to tell us what to do and to support terrorists, China is our dharma brothers and we know how to manage our relations with them.


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## acid rain

mujhaidind said:


> Brother ? Haha. I wonder why they support naxals? Why do they want to annex arunchal pradesh.
> 
> Look how racist Chinese are to Indian in this forum. Typical Hinduvadi traitor.



Chinese being racist about others is a funny thing because the whole world makes fun of chinese people - so we take it as a joke. But they are streets ahead of the jihadi scum who place bombs among our civilians and who talk about jihad from inside India against India itself. Those efftards are the traitors and we know who they are and where they run to hide like dawood, bhatkal, hafiz etc etc.

Jhis thaali mein khatein hain usi mein chedd karthein hai BC.


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## StormShadow

Arya Desa said:


> True. *They aren't a people know for their fighting prowess.* I heard in the Korean War they lost 1 million men while America+ Korea lost less than 50,000 total.


Yet they have not been colonized like us. We had muslims here during colonial rule. What could the divine soldiers do? Which muslim nation is fighting the west? Puppets like saudi, pakistan etc are all acting like stooges to the west whereas China has the balls to see US eye to eye. It's better to focus on ground realities rather than imaginary crap.


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## Chronos

mujhaidind said:


> *You south-Indians think you are smartest people in the whole world. *That world revolves around you. You have right to be-little everyone.
> 
> Talking about facts? I remember how you ignored me when I provided you with facts that Christians are under-reporting their actual figures. You ran away like a little scard girl.



Well when people like you set such low bars, it is only natural

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## third eye

third eye said:


> What do you base this on ?





Arya Desa said:


> south Indians sure are militarly pathetic but not us.



Care to reply as to how you have arrived at this assumption ?

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## IceCold

pigtaker said:


> That shit @Malik Abdullah absolutely is, and he start foul mouth with me, don't expect me to treat it nice.



Which is exactly why i also requested him to calm down and would request you to do the same. There is no point in unnecessary quarrelling between people of two friendly countries. What happens in China is her internal matter. Lets agree to that.


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## StormShadow

Arya Desa said:


> I did not know it was offensive. I have since removed it. *Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it is inappropriate.*


Ofcourse...but you should be in a position to support your claim. That dosent necessarily mean you can post whatever nonsense you like.


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## imiakhtar

Karma is a bitch.

The oppression of Muslims in Xinjiang and the cultural suppression of Buddhist Tibetan will bite China in her arse and it will serve her right.

An amoral nation if there ever was one. 

It's only a matter of time before there is a real people's revolution.

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## Jf Thunder

i could certainly appreciate a senior Chinese member verifying this before i jump to conclusions and start accusing and/or offending some respectable Chinese members

@Chinese-Dragon <-------you are the only one i remember :p tag more if you know some other senior members LOL

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## Contrarian

Arya Desa said:


> friend*
> 
> Friend=/= pawn
> 
> Money and power cannot bring friends. 50 years and and now, chin still has only had pakistan as their friend. Now pakistan is leaving you. chin is a friendless country, an outcaste of the global stage. America has made you the antagonist of humanity!
> 
> For your capacity, it is nil. Until it is proven you can't assume it exists.
> 
> 
> For India not having friends?:
> 
> Countries that explicitly and openly support India for UNSC permanent seat are – Armenia,[60] Australia,[61] Bahamas,[62] Bangladesh,[63] Belarus,[64] Belgium,[65] Belize,[66] Benin,[67] Bolivia,[68] Brunei,[69] Bulgaria,[_citation needed_] Cambodia,[70]Chile,[71] Croatia,[72] Cuba,[73] Cyprus,[74] Czech Republic,[75] Denmark,[76] Dominican Republic,[77] Ethiopia,[78] Finland,[79] Ghana,[80] Guyana,[81] Hungary,[82] Iceland,[83] Israel,[84] Jamaica,[85] Laos,[86] Lesotho[87] Liberia,[88]Libya (under the Gaddafi government),[80] Kazakhstan,[89] Kyrgyzstan,[90] Malawi,[91] Malaysia,[92] Maldives,[93] Micronesia,[94] Mongolia,[95] Morocco,[80] Myanmar,[96] Nigeria,[97] Norway,[98] Oman,[_citation needed_] Palau,[94] Peru,[99] Poland,[100] Portugal,[101] Romania,[_citation needed_] Rwanda,[102] Qatar,[103] Senegal,[104] Singapore,[105]Slovakia,[106] Suriname,[107] Swaziland,[108] Syria,[109][_broken citation_] Tajikistan,[110] Tanzania,[111] Trinidad and Tobago,[112] Tuvalu,[113] Ukraine,[114] the United Arab Emirates,[115] Uzbekistan,[116] Vietnam,[117] and Zambia.[118]
> The African Union also supports India's candidacy for permanent member of UNSC.[119]
> 
> Pakistan is the only nation which specifically opposes India's candidacy.[120]
> We have a great deal of friends.


@Arya Desa You seem to be under some illusion that we give a shit what China does as long as it does not affect India.
Its China's internal affair, they are more competent than us in handling issues. Let them do it their way, you do things your way in your country.

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## -1o1-

China is showing its real colors to the world.

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## GeHAC

Why does this thread based on a fake news become so strange?Don't raise more conflicts like a brainless kid.Just do our things well then it's fine.

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## B+ Dracula

pigtaker said:


> ok, this is you pakis logic, you can insult whole chinese while we can't?


You are flying in anger, just hold your horses bcoz i understand your point, you are communist state & you think Religion with different Angle, and all of us are not trained to think "Religion" by that Angle, moreover ...i think its better to avoid religious talks and focus on other great matters. 



GeHAC said:


> Why does this thread based on a fake news become so strange?Don't raise more conflicts like a brainless kid.Just do our things well then it's fine.


you are right

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## GeHAC

mAsT bAbA said:


> You are flying in anger, just hold your horses bcoz i understand your point, you are communist state & you think Religion with different Angle, and all of us are not trained to think "Religion" by that Angle, moreover ...i think its better to avoid religious talks and focus on other great matters.


Thanks for your understanding.Actually china is not a true "communist state" and we were taught to respect Religious custom.
The generalized national sense of China has a really short history(less than 100 years).So some people tend to think in a narrow nationalism way because we are also struggled dealing the relationship with Muslims in China.And that's why I said "Do our things well" because we haven't sorted this matter well and we have no reason to blame the others.At the same time deeply penetrated social media and rising terrorism make things more complex.Generally most chinese are peaceful realist and they have "beliefs" but not really care about religion.SO,this problem is a combination of history,international situation and many other things,Religion is not a main factor.
Modern reunited china is a really really young country especially compared with our history,and this is an explanation to many social problems here in China which many people haven't realized.I post these things out of responsibility to make things clear and I don't want to lose more friends for ridiculous reasons.

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## mujhaidind

pigtaker said:


> beated up by Indian who even can not get one medal in olympics, and droned by US.


 If a chinese comes across a big bearded Muslim, he will sh** his pants.

Chinese only messing with Muslim civilians. If you will get slaughtered by the mighty mujhaideen.

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## pigtaker

mujhaidind said:


> If a chinese comes across a big bearded Muslim, he will sh** his pants.
> 
> Chinese only messing with Muslim civilians. If you will get slaughtered by the mighty mujhaideen.



your mighty mujhaideen are being slaughtered by Israel now, really brave to die. this is the reality rather than your fancy delusion.

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## Devil Soul

this news is taken from a bbc blog, not the news section... hmmmm


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## qamar1990

third eye said:


> China’s war on Ramadan sees Muslim students forced to break fast
> 
> Meanwhile this is waht Pakistan says !!
> 
> Pakistan says no ban on fasting in China


china is playing with fire, you would think these guys would learn by now not to mess with muslims but i guess not, even after all the shit in the world.

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## waz

pigtaker said:


> good, maybe it is time for us to seal off the China pakistan border, settling this problem once for all. If you dare to infiltrate your jahadists into our territory, you will see our drones operating over your sky like US did.



Moderators time to act against him. I'm not sure what his intention here is but he is certainly not at all representative of the good Chinese folks here. 

Most of his posts are insulting rants against Muslims, Japanese, Indians, Pakistanis and the lot.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I really dont know what is Pakistan gorvernment position over this issue, if you guys want to use religion to interfere into our internal affaire, than make sure you accept also the *reciprocity*. For two and three generations, China and Pakistan leaders have working so hard to reach the status of "all weather friend" I really don't hope to degenerate and degrading our relation just because of the religion.

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## Edison Chen

LOL, this thread is as crazy as hell, full of cancer, close now!

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## The SiLent crY

It seems everywhere in this world has crazy people .

Its not limited in Middle east .



Bharatvarsha said:


> Good move by China. I wish India had even 1% of the balls that CHinese have when it comes to dealing with Muslim extremists.



Since when fasting is a sign of extremism ?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

kankan326 said:


> Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.



God damn it...!!...I thought Chinese people were smart...

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## Chak Bamu

kankan326 said:


> Still remember the Buddhas of Bamiyan? Xinjiang people were not Muslims but Buddhists in ancient time. Their ancestors were forced to convert Islam by Islamic invaders and oppressors. We should help them follow their ancestors spirit path. Which will eliminate the terrorism there from the root.



You sound like a Hindu nationalist, the faulty logic is the same, just names are different.

The likes you have received are all from Indians. That is telling.... Birds of a feather stick together.

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## Okemos

Arya Desa said:


> Cause you're an idiot blinded by islamophobia. They are infringing on a basic human right.



I don't see much religious freedom when an entire ethnic group has to follow Islam or whatever religion. I am wondering how everyone of Uygure is Muslim. Well, because they are either being forced to follow Islam since childhood or have to choose Islam under peer pressure, otherwise, they would face discrimination or even violence from within their own community.  Until they have the freedom to choose whatever religion to follow and do not covert non-Muslims through marriage, I don't think religious freedom applies to Islam.

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## Globenim

First Western want to bitch about China and tell everyone stories how billions on our poor country side don't get enough to eat and its all fault of CCP because they are not submissive lackeys and bootlicker of Western powers like some neighboors of us.

Now Western bitch about China because we prevent people from being forced not to eat in the country side.

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## Rafi

Total fake news - There is no restriction in fasting, people who are living in China have confirmed.


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## ephone

Everyone else may be afraid of terrorists, China just does NOT.

First, I am not even sure such ban is true or Not since there are a lot of news saying no such ban exists.

Second, let's say even it exists, that makes you become terrorists??? We have much stricter rules than this, e.g. children are forbidden to attend any religious school before at least 18.

Does that make those try becoming terrorists???

There are much more longer list of stricter rules like above.

If you want to become terrorists, all of those are just excuses. China will never allow islam to have more influence than their tiny status quo.

Such religion is not compatible with China as atheist country. We allow what we have so far to stay but we will not allow it to expand for sure.

Some other Chinese members may not want to say this but I do not mind telling the so-called cold hard truth. 



Jaanbaz said:


> Nothing. Its China's internal matter but this banning the fasts will eventually make things worse. Even the younger generation who want to reject extremism will now see China as an oppressor.

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## sincity

Muslim isn't a religion, Islim serve as a political tool for the indoctrinated population. Any religion mix with politic to control the population should never be trust or should be respect by their blinded faithfull follower.

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## Jaanbaz

ephone said:


> If you want to become terrorists, all of those are just excuses. China will never allow islam to have more influence than their tiny status quo.
> Such religion is not compatible with China as atheist country. We allow what we have so far to stay but we will not allow it to expand for sure.



Sure China has every right not to allow Islam in its territory. But Turkestan is not part of China. Sorry to break your bubble. Carry on now.



anyrandom said:


> Oh yeah why should you? Afterall who cares about kufrs. You see if I am a muslim I don't need to think about all those silly things.
> It's Allah or no-one, its muslims or no-one.



You're not making any sense poster boy.

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## StarCraft_ZT



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## sincity

Jaanbaz said:


> Sure China has every right not to allow Islam in its territory. But Turkestan is not part of China. Sorry to break your bubble. Carry on now.
> 
> There no Turkestan in China territory. Muslim always want to create East Turkistan within China territory but they couldn't achieved with their ambition.
> 
> You're not making any sense poster boy.

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## KingMamba

Arya Desa said:


> I feel you can't ever be friends with them. In your face they will act all nice but they have such intense hatred inside of them against everyone and they generalize like crazy. One person of an ethinicity does something to them or did something to china and they will hate your whole people. We desis dislike eachothers countries, but outside of them we treat eachother like family. chinas would never do that.



This is true South Asians watch out for each other abroad.



Arya Desa said:


> True. They aren't a people know for their fighting prowess. I heard in the Korean War they lost 1 million men while America+ Korea lost less than 50,000 total.



They did a lot of human wave tactics but no way they lost a million men.



Ravi Nair said:


> Until the Mongols came along, during their time, they were the premier military power in the world. Chinese fortifications, battle tactics were legendary.
> 
> China has a long history of civilization and battle scars through thousands of years of combat.
> 
> The Chinese hand us Indians a beating in 1962.
> 
> If Chinese aren't Martially proficient, then Indians are on a whole level of pathetic then



With all due respect while they did woop your asses in 62, it was hardly a fair fight.



Arya Desa said:


> He is a typical islamophobe. He also has an unnatural hatred of Punjabis too. Truly a sick man.



I am starting to agree that @Ravi Nair is a sick individual.


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## jaunty

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I really dont know what is Pakistan gorvernment position over this issue, if you guys want to use religion to interfere into our internal affaire, than make sure you accept also the *reciprocity*. For two and three generations, China and Pakistan leaders have working so hard to reach the status of "all weather friend" I really don't hope to degenerate and degrading our relation just because of the religion.



Don't worry Pakistan can't afford to lose you guys. They would sacrifice religion over your friendship. Haven't you noticed how Pakistanis are so convinced that it is a fake news? If this was anywhere else they would have advocated jihad by now.

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## halupridol

jaunty said:


> Don't worry Pakistan can't afford to lose you guys. They would sacrifice religion over your friendship. Haven't you noticed how Pakistanis are so convinced that it is a fake news? If this was anywhere else they would have advocated jihad by now.


 a new member @Axomiya has joined pdf,,,,,he already opened a thread about martial punjabis


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## jaunty

halupridol said:


> a new member @Axomiya has joined pdf,,,,,he already opened a thread about martial punjabis



Banned already, great start!

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## KingMamba

halupridol said:


> a new member @Axomiya has joined pdf,,,,,he already opened a thread about martial punjabis



I doubt any of these new Indians are actually new members.


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## halupridol

KingMamba said:


> I doubt any of these new Indians are actually new members.


maybe,,,,,come to think of it,,he didnt respond to my question in assamese,,,

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## Levina

Arya Desa said:


> He is a typical islamophobe. He also has an unnatural hatred of Punjabis too. Truly a sick man.


Post reported for low level personal attacks.


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## waz

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I really dont know what is Pakistan gorvernment position over this issue, if you guys want to use religion to interfere into our internal affaire, than make sure you accept also the *reciprocity*. For two and three generations, China and Pakistan leaders have working so hard to reach the status of "all weather friend" I really don't hope to degenerate and degrading our relation just because of the religion.



Pakistan government has *NO *position on this. It's none of our business what a close ally does internally and it won't certainly hurt decades of good trust and friendship. No one as far as I'm aware has said they will use faith to interfere with your affairs.

You as a people should be thick skinned and not bend to any rumours, flame baiting or some idiot who claims to represent Pakistan.

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## Chak Bamu

Okemos said:


> Until they have the freedom to choose whatever religion to follow and do not covert non-Muslims through marriage, *I don't think religious freedom applies to Islam*.



Are you high on something? What is going on in your brain kiddo?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

@pigtaker got banned for defending China while other offenders are free???? now I know the true meaning of PDF. I request MOD to remove my account permanently...I realised that this is not just military forum but Muslim forum.

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## ephone

First, I have not said China does not allow islam in her territory. China does allow a modified moderate version of islam to exist.

However, China has never encouraged islam to expand in China and it will never be in her interest to do so.

I am not sure where the bubble comes from.



Jaanbaz said:


> Sure China has every right not to allow Islam in its territory. But Turkestan is not part of China. Sorry to break your bubble. Carry on now.
> 
> 
> 
> You're not making any sense poster boy.

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## ephone

never heard of such place.



Jaanbaz said:


> My bad I meant East Turkestan.

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## ephone

terrorism won't work now. 

don't take hearsay as truth as well. 

you need do your homework before telling us that some groups in China are oppressed simply because a lot of western media say so. 




Jaanbaz said:


> I'm going sleep. Enough trolling for today. Sorry If I hurt your feelings or insulted China. I have respect for China but I will always stand up for oppressed people in any country.

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## pigtoker

ephone said:


> What China has to do with Turkestan??? BTW, what is turkestan??? I have never heard of such thing.


you don't get it, he means he will support Xingjing independence to become east turkistan. That is their true color. I will bring those messages to China forum and expose them to all Chinese,

I wish we could settle border issues with India as soon as possible, one way or another. In the long run, india will be a far more comfortable and friendly neighbour.

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## amitkriit

China has been doing to the Muslims what Islamic Nations like KSA have been doing to the non-Muslims for decades. Perfect equalizer.

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## pigtoker

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> @pigtaker got banned for defending China while other offenders are free???? now I know the true meaning of PDF. I request MOD to remove my account permanently...I realised that this is not just military forum but Muslim forum.


This is the right kind of attitude we Chinese need for. Thanks


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## liaoliaoeryi

pigtoker said:


> This is the right kind of attitude we Chinese need for. Thanks


1. Calm down, guest should has guest's attidude. You should be polite,not too aggressive as a guest in other home.
2. In your home,you can do what you want. but out of your home,..............Rule is everywhere,it is normal.

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## waz

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> @pigtaker got banned for defending China while other offenders are free???? now I know the true meaning of PDF. I request MOD to remove my account permanently...I realised that this is not just military forum but Muslim forum.



Comrade, Pigtaker got banned for abusing everyone, not just Muslims. He doesn't deserve any defence, considering he is the biggest liability here for you Chinese folks. Even before this "Ramadan" thread he was calling Pakistanis "Pakis" and how together India and China will finish us off etc. I haven't even got into how he has abused Indians, Japanese and so on.

Two other Pakistanis were also banned alongside with him for their remarks. 

Oh also, it doesn't seem like he has learnt his lesson he is now back with another ID. What does that tell you about him?

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## kalu_miah

waz said:


> Comrade, Pigtaker got banned for abusing everyone, not just Muslims. He doesn't deserve any defence, considering he is the biggest liability here for you Chinese folks. Even before this "Ramadan" thread he was calling Pakistanis "Pakis" and how together India and China will finish us off etc. I haven't even got into how he has abused Indians, Japanese and so on.
> 
> Two other Pakistanis were also banned alongside with him for their remarks.
> 
> Oh also, it doesn't seem like he has learnt his lesson he is now back with another ID. What does that tell you about him?



I consider it a valuable opportunity to understand the Chinese national psyche. You should not dismiss him as a one off exception. What if this is how majority Chinese really think deep down, when no one is looking? Do you think that has no implication to existing foreign policy paradigm for many regional nations?

We should let them speak their mind. This is the only way the world can understand them and it is better than not understanding them and having a false impression about them.

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## xunzi

kalu_miah said:


> I consider it a valuable opportunity to understand the Chinese national psyche. You should not dismiss him as a one off exception. What if this is how majority Chinese really think deep down, when no one is looking? Do you think that has no implication to existing foreign policy paradigm for many regional nations?
> 
> We should let them speak their mind. This is the only way the world can understand them and it is better than not understanding them and having a false impression about them.


There are variant degree of opinion throughout every society and country, why would China be any different? We have over 1.3 billion people. There are bound of Chinese people who favor increasing tie with Hindu India and there are some who favor tie with Sunni Muslim. It is not to be concern. In diplomacy, it is about interest that matter. If you need to know our mind, talk to me. I am the best at playing the balancing act. LOL

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## kalu_miah

xunzi said:


> There are variant degree of opinion throughout every society and country, why would China be any different? We have over 1.3 billion people. There are bound of Chinese people who favor increasing tie with Hindu India and there are some who favor tie with Sunni Muslim. It is not to be concern. In diplomacy, it is about interest that matter. If you need to know our mind, talk to me. I am the best at playing the balancing act. LOL



I understand what you are saying. LOL. But what I was saying was that the more data points the better.


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## Jlaw

xuxu1457 said:


> First come from *BBC* time "*11 July 2014Last updated at 10:46*"，*By Martin Patience BBC News, Beijing， note that the writer stay in Beijing and write a paper about Kashi of Xinjiang,*
> 
> 
> *Find: then I wanted to find the truth, I went to the Baidu forum of kashi normal university, in which it has 9097 members from Kashi university, and 1,251,793 threads.
> 喀什师范学院吧_百度贴吧
> 
> THen I find the biggest joke: they are all left the University, since Summer vacation of Kashi univerisity beggin from 11 July the same day when the writer wrote the news "11 July 2014Last updated at 10:46", and he said that students told that "they were forced to eat meat with professors". *



Yes the west is full of BS when it comes to writing about China. Remember these ghost cities that the west have been saying about China for years. It appear that the ghost city are not ghost cities but are inhabited by people. There are area where it is not finish building but the western media loves to sensationalize and report it as ghost city. 

A Journey To China's Largest Ghost City This dude uncovered the Zhengzhou ghost city lies.

Good work uncovering another lie.

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## ephone

You really think I do not know that???

In all the countries that have diplomatic relationship with China, that part of land is labelled as Xinjiang. No countries recognize that part as some kind of turkestan, as simple as that.

We never recognize that and we never take that name as well.



pigtoker said:


> you don't get it, he means he will support Xingjing independence to become east turkistan. That is their true color. I will bring those messages to China forum and expose them to all Chinese,
> 
> I wish we could settle border issues with India as soon as possible, one way or another. In the long run, india will be a far more comfortable and friendly neighbour.

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## twocents

Jaanbaz said:


> I'm going sleep. Enough trolling for today. Sorry If I hurt your feelings or insulted China. I have respect for China but I will always stand up for oppressed people in any country.





kalu_miah said:


> I consider it a valuable opportunity to understand the Chinese national psyche. You should not dismiss him as a one off exception. What if this is how majority Chinese really think deep down, when no one is looking? Do you think that has no implication to existing foreign policy paradigm for many regional nations?
> 
> We should let them speak their mind. This is the only way the world can understand them and it is better than not understanding them and having a false impression about them.



Don't your worry. He is on the fringe. The overwhelming majority of Chinese has a very favorable opinion of Pakistan and its people. As for the "Chinese psyche" there is indeed an animosity toward any form of outside interference in China's domestic affairs. Non-interference has been China's mantra for sixty years. Almost the entire population shares that view. In other words we (China) do not tell others how to run their countries. Likewise, how China conducts its domestic affairs is entirely our own business.

On a side note, Western media's reporting on China is so full of falsehood that it is absolutely worthless. One will never go wrong presuming everything they have to say as propaganda until proven otherwise. That's been my personal experience.

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## pher

twocents said:


> Don't your worry. He is on the fringe. The *overwhelming majority of Chinese* has a very favorable opinion of Pakistan and its people. As for the "Chinese psyche" there is indeed an animosity toward any form of outside interference in China's domestic affairs. Non-interference has been China's mantra for sixty years. Almost the entire population shares that view. In other words we (China) do not tell others how to run their countries. Likewise, how China conducts its domestic affairs is entirely our own business.
> 
> On a side note, Western media's reporting on China is so full of falsehood that it is absolutely worthless. One will never go wrong presuming everything they have to say as propaganda until proven otherwise. That's been my personal experience.




Paying attention to China's figure, we are almost in the same league with india and turkey.

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## B+ Dracula

Rafi said:


> Total fake news - There is no restriction in fasting, people who are living in China have confirmed.


Yes...Our Pakistani Foreign office have confirmed that.....


ephone said:


> If you want to become terrorists, all of those are just excuses. China will never allow islam to have more influence than their tiny status quo.
> Such religion is not compatible with China as atheist country. We allow what we have so far to stay but we will not allow it to expand for sure.
> Some other Chinese members may not want to say this but I do not mind telling the so-called cold hard truth.


No problem , Rome 4 Romans, china for Chinese



StarCraft_ZT said:


>





GeHAC said:


> Thanks for your understanding.Actually china is not a true "communist state" and we were taught to respect Religious custom.
> The generalized national sense of China has a really short history(less than 100 years).So some people tend to think in a narrow nationalism way because we are also struggled dealing the relationship with Muslims in China.And that's why I said "Do our things well" because we haven't sorted this matter well and we have no reason to blame the others.At the same time deeply penetrated social media and rising terrorism make things more complex.Generally most chinese are peaceful realist and they have "beliefs" but not really care about religion.SO,this problem is a combination of history,international situation and many other things,Religion is not a main factor.
> Modern reunited china is a really really young country especially compared with our history,and this is an explanation to many social problems here in China which many people haven't realized.I post these things out of responsibility to make things clear and I don't want to lose more friends for ridiculous reasons.


thanks, *I want BAN on that topic again in future, It was instigated by Indian so called muslim.......*


Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I really dont know what is Pakistan gorvernment position over this issue, if you guys want to use religion to interfere into our internal affaire, than make sure you accept also the reciprocity. For two and three generations, China and Pakistan leaders have working so hard to reach the status of "all weather friend" I really don't hope to degenerate and degrading our relation just because of the religion.


Iam 100% Sure, Pakistani members never Created such topics against China, 
Why not proceed to BAN such topic once for all...

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## Marwat Khan Lodhi

I got banned for criticising china for banning fasting in ramadan, by a pakistani mod. Chaplosi ki bi koi hud hoti hey.
Pakistanis shouldnt act like munafiqs and should call spade a spade.

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## Sasquatch

Meh Threads run it's course I've handed out a couple infractions for trolling and off topic posts. Thread Closed.

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## third eye

BBC News - 'Suspects shot' in Xinjiang imam killing





Tight security was in place outside the mosque in Kashgar on Thursday

Police have shot dead two suspects in the killing of the imam of China's largest mosque and captured another, state media say.

Jume Tahir was the imam in Kashgar, in China's restive Xinjiang region.

He was found dead after morning prayers at the Id Kah mosque on Wednesday.

Police said the suspects, located shortly afterwards, "resisted arrest with knives and axes". They were "influenced by religious extremism", Xinhua news agency said.

Xinjiang, in China's far west, is home to the Muslim Uighur minority.

Tensions have rumbled for years between Uighurs and Beijing over large-scale Han Chinese migration and tight Chinese control.

In recent months, however, there has been a marked increase in Xinjiang-linked violence, including a market attack in the regional capital Urumqi that left more than 30 people dead.

Beijing blames these attacks on extremists inspired by overseas terror groups. Uighur activists say heavy-handed restrictions on religious and cultural freedoms are fuelling local resentment.






*Imam Jume Tahir was said to have been unpopular with some Uighurs due to a pro-Beijing stance*
News of the imam's death emerged early on Thursday via foreign media but was only confirmed late in the day by official sources.

*Xinhua said the suspects planned to "do something big" to increase their influence.

Mr Tahir, a Uighur, was a vocal and public supporter of Chinese policies in the region, says the BBC's Damian Grammaticas in Beijing.

He was appointed imam of the 600-year-old mosque by the ruling Communist Party.*

_Some say he was deeply unpopular among Uighurs who disliked the fact that he praised Communist Party policies while preaching in his mosque._

His killing came two days after dozens of people were reportedly killed or injured in clashes with police in Yarkant county, in the same prefecture.

Independently confirming reports from Xinjiang is difficult because access is restricted and information flow is tightly controlled.


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## Pakistanisage

Sad to see these Muslims kill each other....


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## Voltaire

Well..hope china handles these terrorists very soon.


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## BoQ77

third eye said:


> Independently confirming reports from Xinjiang is difficult because access is restricted and information flow is tightly controlled.



Ugly truth behind this restriction, even among full scale war, reporters allowed to work


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## third eye

Militants kill pro-Beijing imam of biggest mosque in Xinjiang







BEIJING: Three suspected militants armed with knives and axes killed the imam of China’s biggest mosque in the western region of Xinjiang on Wednesday, the authorities said, days after a knife-wielding gang attacked state buildings in the same region.

All three attackers, who were named by the government, had ethnic Uighur names and the imam, Juma Tayir, was a well-known pro-government Uighur who led prayers at the Id Kah Mosque in the old Silk Road city of Kashgar.

Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur people, who speak a Turkic language, has for years been beset by violence, which the government blames on militants who it says want to establish an independent state called East Turkestan.

The men attacked Tayir after morning prayers, the Xinjiang government said on its official news website on Thursday. Two of the attackers were later shot dead by police while the third was arrested, it said.

The three “were influenced by religious extremist thinking and plotted to raise their profile by ‘doing something big’”, the government said.

Xinjiang has seen a surge in violence over the last year, with hundreds killed, including some police, according to state media.
Tensions among the Uighur are running high after officials in Xinjiang told Muslims to ignore religious customs during the holy month of Ramazan, which rights groups say is an attempt to repress the Uighur minority.

*Tayir was a controversial figure among Uighurs. In 2009, he backed the government after it quashed deadly riots in Xinjiang’s capital Urumqi in which nearly 200 people were killed.*

Dilxat Raxit, a spokesman for the exiled World Uyghur Congress, said Tayir was known locally for cooperating with the government and helping them monitor religious activities of the Uighurs.

“Local Uighurs suspected that he had a special relationship with China’s Ministry of Public Security,” he said in emailed comments to Reuters.

The killing in Kashgar comes after a series of attacks in Xinjiang over the past year. State media reported on Wednesday that a gang armed with knives had attacked a police station and government offices on Monday in the town of Elixku, in Shache county.

The government said dozens of knife-wielding attackers were shot dead in Shache but has yet to give a full account of what happened in the county, which lies 200 kilometres from Kashgar. Police appeared to be on high alert on Wednesday, pouring into Kashgar and closing off roads.

Meanwhile, China indicted prominent Uighur professor Ilham Tohti, who has championed the rights of his community, on separatism charges.

Xinjiang has rich coal, oil and gas reserves and is strategically located on the borders of Central Asia, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India.


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## ito

why is that muslims have become so active in xinjiang all of a sudden?


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## pher

Pakistanisage said:


> Sad to see these Muslims kill each other....


What sad? you mean they kill non-muslim Chinese is ok, but this muslim guy is sad?

if this is sad, how do you call what happend in Syria, Iraq or Lybia, even in your country, those are all your muslim brothers who kill each other.


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## Pakistanisage

pher said:


> What sad? you mean they kill non-muslim Chinese is ok, but this muslim guy is sad?
> 
> if this is sad, how do you call what happend in Syria, Iraq or Lybia, even in your country, those are all your muslim brothers who kill each other.




Killing anyone is reprehensible.

But Muslims kill each other more than others...


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## C130

Pakistanisage said:


> Killing anyone is reprehensible.
> 
> But Muslims kill each other more than others...



death and destruction that is how Islam and Muslims are portrayed nowadays.
you got AK and swords on your flags
you are the most fanatical about religion and are willing to kill over it.


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## GreenFoe

*BEIJING: The head of China’s largest mosque was murdered after conducting morning prayers, the local government in far western Xinjiang said Thursday, amid intensifying violence in the turbulent region.*

Jume Tahir, the government-appointed imam of the 600-year-old Id Kah mosque in the city of Kashgar, was killed Wednesday by “three thugs influenced by religious extremist ideology”, the Xinjiang government web portal Tianshan said.

Police launched an all-out investigation and shot dead two of the alleged assailants while capturing the other at about noon on Wednesday as they violently resisted with “knives and hatchets,” Tianshan said.

Tianshan said Tahir’s killing was “premeditated” and that the suspects intended to commit a “ruthless murder”.

It also said they wanted to “increase their influence through ‘doing something big’”.

Tianshan identified the suspects by their names in phonetic Chinese. The official _Xinhua_ news agency in an English-language report gave their names as Turghun Tursun, Memetjan Remutillan and Nurmemet Abidilimit.

Neither Tianshan nor _Xinhua_ initially identified who among them was shot dead and who was apprehended.

Tahir was found dead in a pool of blood outside the mosque’s prayer house, Radio Free Asia (RFA) reported earlier on its website.

Xinjiang, home to China’s mostly Muslim Uighur ethnic minority, has seen escalating violence which in the past year has spilled over into other parts of China.

RFA cited what it described as “witnesses and other officials”, including the director of a neighbourhood stability committee in Kashgar, who described the killing as an assassination.

Imams and other religious leaders in China are appointed by the government and subject to strict control on the content of their preaching.

US-based RFA said that Tahir had been critical of violence carried out by Uighurs, and China’s official _Xinhua_ news agency in early July quoted him as condemning terrorist violence carried out in the name of ethnicity and religion.

Tahir, 74, “enjoyed a high reputation among Muslims nationwide”, _Xinhua_ said in its dispatch Thursday.

Dilxat Raxit, spokesperson for the exiled World Uyghur Congress (WUC), did not condemn the killing.

“Chinese policies in the area have caused things to happen which should not happen,” he told AFP in an email.

“According to local Uighurs, Jume Tahir consistently cooperated with the government, aided the monitoring of religious activities, and used his position in the mosque to promote Chinese policies which are unacceptable to Uighurs,” he said.

“Local Uighurs suspected he had a special relationship with the Chinese ministry of security.”

The Id Kah mosque is said to have a capacity of up to 20,000 people.

Kashgar, where the mosque is located, is an old oasis city that was part of the Silk Road trade route that ran from Europe to Asia.

The killing of Tahir came two days after dozens of people died in violence between Uighurs and security authorities in the Kashgar region.

Nearly 100 people were left dead or wounded, the WUC said, while authorities put the toll in the “several tens” in what they called a “terror attack” on a police station and township in Shache county, known as Yarkand in the Uighur language.

Beijing commonly blames separatists from Xinjiang for carrying out terror attacks which have grown in scale over the past year and spread outside the restive and resource-rich region.

A market attack in Urumqi, Xinjiang’s capital city, in May left 39 people dead, while a deadly rampage by knife-wielding assailants at a train station in Kunming in China’s southwest in March killed 29 people.

They came after a fiery vehicle crash at Tiananmen Square, Beijing’s symbolic heart, in October last year.

The violence has led China to carry out a broad crackdown on terrorism. President Xi Jinping on a visit to Xinjiang in late April called for a “strike first” strategy to fight terrorism and said the Kashgar area is China’s “front line in anti-terrorist efforts”.

Chinese prosecutors on Wednesday brought charges of separatism — which can carry the death penalty — against prominent Uighur academic Ilham Tohti, detained earlier this year.

Rights groups and analysts accuse China’s government of cultural and religious repression which they say fuels unrest in Xinjiang, which borders Central Asia.

The government, however, argues it has boosted economic development in the area and that it upholds minority rights in a country with 56 recognised ethnic groups.

Imam of China’s biggest mosque killed in Xinjiang – The Express Tribune


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## GreenFoe

muslims must stop showing their children blood and killings as archaic festivals ,this could definitely lessen their violent mentality .

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## Falcon29

SURYA-1 said:


> AND Not a single Fcuk was given.
> 
> Look at this thread.
> 
> No Pakistani is shedding blood threw his eyes. Hypocrites !!
> 
> I don't know how many pages would this thread have gone if someone would have killed the mullah of Delhi' s Jama Masjid.
> 
> @Hazzy997 , your observations will be much appreciated.



Why me out of all people? I'm confused, what exactly happened here?


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## dlclong

Extremists have eyes only for the killing, there is no peace in their eyes, they always assassinated opposition pacifist violence.

Id Kah Mosque in Kashgar is full of Xinjiang, and the whole of China's largest mosque, Imam Jume Tahir Maulana, have religion knowledgeable, and humble, honest, In Kashgar, all Xinjiang region have enjoyed a high reputation. After the 2009 Urumqi riots, he denounced those who killed innocent riot, contrary to the teachings of Islam, has since become a thorn by extremists.
in Turpan, last year there is another Maulana were killed.


Because he was againstextremism,against violence, hope all ethnic groupslive in harmony,
So, in theextremists,and theWestern countriesit seems, he isheterogeneous,Controversial person
Therefore, theextremists killed him,while the Western mediaas Sophistry terrorists


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## dlclong

pher said:


> What sad? you mean they kill non-muslim Chinese is ok, but this muslim guy is sad?
> 
> if this is sad, how do you call what happend in Syria, Iraq or Lybia, even in your country, those are all your muslim brothers who kill each other.


你吃火药了？喷啥呢喷？谁那样说了？这个论坛没人这么说，再说层主是个很不错的巴基斯坦人。你返目请到国内，别总乱喷。你看看纳个鈤苯仁，wei装的多好，多会套好人，别学在国内论乱喷粪。你要不能给郭嘉找朋友，就请不要乱啦敌人

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## dlclong

Because he was against extremism,against violence, hope all ethnic groupslive in harmony,
So, in theextremists,and the Western countriesit seems, he isheterogeneous,Controversial person
Therefore, the extremists killed him,while the Western mediaas Sophistry terrorists

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## aliaselin

dlclong said:


> 你吃火药了？喷啥呢喷？谁那样说了？这个论坛没人这么说，再说层主是个很不错的巴基斯坦人。你返目请到国内，别总乱喷。你看看纳个鈤苯仁，wei装的多好，多会套好人，别学在国内论乱喷粪。你要不能给郭嘉找朋友，就请不要乱啦敌人


那个跪子看得人想吐，要在我面前走似那个龟儿子



dlclong said:


> Because he was against extremism,against violence, hope all ethnic groupslive in harmony,
> So, in theextremists,and the Western countriesit seems, he isheterogeneous,Controversial person
> Therefore, the extremists killed him,while the Western mediaas Sophistry terrorists


I have read some materials saying that these terrorists actually do not read Quran Koran by themselves.


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## Water Car Engineer

SURYA-1 said:


> AND Not a single Fcuk was given.
> 
> Look at this thread.
> 
> No Pakistani is shedding blood threw his eyes. Hypocrites !!
> 
> I don't know how many pages would this thread have gone if someone would have killed the mullah of Delhi' s Jama Masjid.
> 
> @Hazzy997 , your observations will be much appreciated.




This is a defence forum. No matter what Pakistanis here will say, most of them are nationalist first. So they'll keep quiet about Ramadan fast banning, etc. in China. But as soon as something like that happens in India, the ultra Muslim comes out when it's to their advantage.

Other corners of Pakistanis are most definitely not liking fast banning, etc.

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## SURYA-1

Hazzy997 said:


> Why me out of all people? I'm confused, what exactly happened here?



Call of Umaah , isn't that at what you Champion ??


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## Falcon29

SURYA-1 said:


> Call of Umaah , isn't that at what you Champion ??



I don't know why you think I'm pro-Chinese. I'm indifferent about China. If you haven't realized yet, I'm not Pakistani but Palestinian. 

I respect China for many things, especially their foreign policy. Domestically it is more complicated than you think. It is sad to see lives being lost on both sides. 

However, this article isn't clear. I'm getting the impression that he was killed by his own people or police??


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## Badbadman

Water Car Engineer said:


> This is a defence forum. No matter what Pakistanis here will say, most of them are nationalist first. So they'll keep quiet about Ramadan fast banning, etc. in China. But as soon as something like that happens in India, the ultra Muslim comes out when it's to their advantage.
> 
> Other corners of Pakistanis are most definitely not liking fast banning, etc.


Wondered why itna sannata kyun hai.


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## dlclong

aliaselin said:


> 那个跪子看得人想吐，要在我面前走似那个龟儿子



不得不佩服，柜自真的很虚蔚，很能庄，呵呵，这就是塔们的厉害之处，而我闷之中，大多数都是没脑子乱喷的多


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## dlclong

Water Car Engineer said:


> This is a defence forum. No matter what Pakistanis here will say, most of them are nationalist first. So they'll keep quiet about Ramadan fast banning, etc. in China. But as soon as something like that happens in India, the ultra Muslim comes out when it's to their advantage.
> 
> Other corners of Pakistanis are most definitely not liking fast banning, etc.


Although later, I still say it again. 
For you say, "China prohibits fasting." 
China does not allow political interference in religion, and education. 
1 Chinese Communist Party officials, Accordance with the regulations can not believe in religion, but some places are not enforced. However, during the work is not allowed to conduct religious activities. 
2 In addition, the Chinese law, minors under the age of 18 are not allowed to force the propagation of religious people, but still there are many young people believe in religion. However, schools are not allowed to engage in religious activities. 
In China, any religion are like this.

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## TaiShang

More terrorists being send to hell.

------------

*9 terror suspects shot dead in Xinjiang*

Xinhua, August 2nd, 2014

Police shot dead nine suspected terrorists and captured another in Hotan Prefecture of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region on Friday afternoon, the regional police authority said.

The group was identified by police on July 27. Local civilians volunteered to help the police in tracking down the suspects.

At 12:15 am on Friday, locals found the suspects in a corn field in Purgakqi Township of Karakax County.

With the help of more than 30,000 volunteers, officers chased the suspects to an abandoned house, where they resisted arrest by throwing explosives into the crowd. Police fired back.

No police or civilians were injured during the incident.

The Xinjiang government launched a year-long campaign in late May after a terrorist attack in the regional capital of Urumqi killed 39 people and injured 94 others. The campaign targets terrorist suspects and extremism.

Fighting the terrorists has proved an uphill challenge however.

On Wednesday, extremists murdered the imam of China's largest mosque, Jume Tahir, in Xinjiang.

On Monday morning, dozens of Uygur and Han civilians were killed or injured in an "organized and premeditated" attack in Shache County, Kashgar Prefecture. A gang armed with knives and axes attacked a police station and government offices in Elixku Township, and some moved on to the nearby Huangdi Township, attacking civilians and smashing vehicles.

Police officers at the scene shot dead dozens of members of the mob.

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## xesy

I have a question: really, 30.000 people chasing 10 terrorists? That's like a whole district worth of population .


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## Fracker

xesy said:


> I have a question: really, 30.000 people chasing 10 terrorists? That's like a whole district worth of population .


It's better to chase down them now, or if they grew, even 100 thousand will be not enough. Check ISIS, Iraq and Syria.


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## xesy

Fracker said:


> It's better to chase down them now, or if they grew, even 100 thousand will be not enough. Check ISIS, Iraq and Syria.


I mean the police didn't set up a parameter or something like that to stop civilians getting in harm ways? And 30.000 and no one gets in the way of the police, or causing any thing like a riot? I mean when bullets started flying and explosions went off, things sure got messy and chaostic.


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## Gautam

Good news of the day. China should kill them all with cold blood. Show those ba$tards no mercy.


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## C130

Gautam said:


> Good news of the day. China should kill them all with cold blood. Show those ba$tards no mercy.


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## cirr

xesy said:


> I have a question: really, 30.000 people chasing 10 terrorists? That's like a whole district worth of population .



Ever heard of "people's war" advocated by Chairman Mao？

The CCP is extremely good at it。

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## cirr

Video

视频:新疆群众搜捕暴恐分子

showing volunteers hunting for the 10 terrorists at large

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## qwerrty

time for another round of mass executions in stadium


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## BoQ77

what does "suspected terrorists" mean ?


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## cnleio

It's called "Peoples War".

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## qwerrty

nowhere to hide, nowhere to run

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## vtnsx

Why don't they just hang them? so dumb


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## Edison Chen

qwerrty said:


> nowhere to hide, nowhere to run



Glad to see Uighurs stand against terrorists, saving lots of trouble.

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## halupridol

gud job.


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## sahaliyan

LordOfMosquitos said:


> It seems to me that 9 random individuals got killed on the basis of race and religion, on just suspision that they might be terrorists. We might be recieving a one-sided story. Police and han crowd of three thousands is chasing after a muslim guy spotted? Wtf is that?.the cornered guy throwing an explosive at crowd, with no casaulty? Seems made up, was necessary to add to the story so that it feels believable to us.
> Chinese official definition of terrorism is weird, they view religous-ness as terrorism. Basically any practicing muslim is suspected terrorist for them. I think ethnic riots are going on between uyghurs and hans who are backed by state. Naturally uyghurs would be demonized while hans would be depicted as responsible chinese citizens chasing after "terrorists". Chinese have committed lot of genocides in history, be careful with what news they feed to you


han crowd of three thousands

You read too much crap,those are Uyghurs,not Hans,there aren't many Hans in Hotan


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## dray

LordOfMosquitos said:


> It seems to me that 9 random individuals got killed on the basis of race and religion, on just suspision that they might be terrorists. We might be recieving a one-sided story. Police and han crowd of three thousands is chasing after a muslim guy spotted? Wtf is that?.the cornered guy throwing an explosive at crowd, with no casaulty? Seems made up, was necessary to add to the story so that it feels believable to us.
> Chinese official definition of terrorism is weird, they view religous-ness as terrorism. Basically any practicing muslim is suspected terrorist for them. I think ethnic riots are going on between uyghurs and hans who are backed by state. Naturally uyghurs would be demonized while hans would be depicted as responsible chinese citizens chasing after "terrorists". Chinese have committed lot of genocides in history, be careful with what news they feed to you



You have a point though, how they were identified as terrorists?


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## BoQ77

LordOfMosquitos said:


> Hard to trust communists.
> It seems uyghurs are agitated on nationalist basis but han china is doing propaganda that they are religous extremists aka terrorists, this way the rest of the world would be allergic to uyghurs and would refrain from sympathizing with them. Han chinese are digging graves for themeselves, by over-reacting.



I still doubt about the painted story made out to lure kids ... 30,000 Han Chinese civilians ( I'm sure almost with long steel pipes, swords and axes as in 2009 ) and thousand policemen chased for 9 suspect into an abandoned house ... 
And policemen did the easiest task ... shot down all of 9 ...


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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> I still doubt about the painted story made out to lure kids ... 30,000 Han Chinese civilians ( I'm sure almost with long steel pipes, swords and axes as in 2009 ) and thousand policemen chased for 9 suspect into an abandoned house ...
> And policemen did the easiest task ... shot down all of 9 ...



Run home and hold your vigil today. Either wholesale for all, or one by one for each. LOL.

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## itaskol

*新疆和田423万奖金表彰围捕暴恐团伙民警及民众*
*新疆和田423万奖金表彰围捕暴恐团伙民警及民众|新疆围捕暴恐团伙_新浪新闻

4.23million RMB reward for the people who hunting down terrorist. *

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## BoQ77

TaiShang said:


> Run home and hold your vigil today. Either wholesale for all, or one by one for each. LOL.


@Hu Songshan : I want to report this insulting post. Please process fair ban


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## twocents

itaskol said:


> *新疆和田423万奖金表彰围捕暴恐团伙民警及民众*
> *新疆和田423万奖金表彰围捕暴恐团伙民警及民众|新疆围捕暴恐团伙_新浪新闻*
> 
> *4.23million RMB reward for the people who hunting down terrorist. *



This is the equivalent of 700,000 dollars, but it's money well spent.


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## Jlaw

BoQ77 said:


> I still doubt about the painted *story made out to lure kids* ... 30,000 Han Chinese civilians ( I'm sure almost with long steel pipes, swords and axes as in 2009 ) and thousand policemen chased for 9 suspect into an abandoned house ...
> And policemen did the easiest task ... shot down all of 9 ...



Well kid, I guess it worked.

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## itaskol

twocents said:


> This is the equivalent of 700,000 dollars, but it's money well spent.


total reward is 300 million rmb . near 50 million usd
4.23 million is just the first payment

　　天山网墨玉8月3日讯(新疆日报记者隋云雁 张雷报道)自治区决定，拿出3亿余元奖励所有参与近期围捕专项行动的群众及相关人员。3日下午墨玉县人民广场举行万人大会，先期对首批在围捕专项行动中涌现出的先进集体和先进个人进行表彰奖励，奖励金额423万元


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## Informant

twocents said:


> This is the equivalent of 700,000 dollars, but it's money well spent.



Sure as hell not two cents


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## twocents

itaskol said:


> total reward is 300 million rmb . near 50 million usd
> 4.23 million is just the first payment
> 
> 天山网墨玉8月3日讯(新疆日报记者隋云雁 张雷报道)自治区决定，拿出3亿余元奖励所有参与近期围捕专项行动的群众及相关人员。3日下午墨玉县人民广场举行万人大会，先期对首批在围捕专项行动中涌现出的先进集体和先进个人进行表彰奖励，奖励金额423万元





itaskol said:


> total reward is 300 million rmb . near 50 million usd
> 4.23 million is just the first payment
> 
> 天山网墨玉8月3日讯(新疆日报记者隋云雁 张雷报道)自治区决定，拿出3亿余元奖励所有参与近期围捕专项行动的群众及相关人员。3日下午墨玉县人民广场举行万人大会，先期对首批在围捕专项行动中涌现出的先进集体和先进个人进行表彰奖励，奖励金额423万元



Great. Let's call it "investing in the future". Money should never be an issue when we try to eradicate extremisn/terrorism.

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## tranquilium

LordOfMosquitos said:


> It seems to me that 9 random individuals got killed on the basis of race and religion, on just suspision that they might be terrorists. We might be recieving a one-sided story. Police and han crowd of three thousands is chasing after a muslim guy spotted? Wtf is that?.the cornered guy throwing an explosive at crowd, with no casaulty? Seems made up, was necessary to add to the story so that it feels believable to us.
> Chinese official definition of terrorism is weird, they view religous-ness as terrorism. Basically any practicing muslim is suspected terrorist for them. I think ethnic riots are going on between uyghurs and hans who are backed by state. Naturally uyghurs would be demonized while hans would be depicted as responsible chinese citizens chasing after "terrorists". Chinese have committed lot of genocides in history, be careful with what news they feed to you





DRAY said:


> You have a point though, how they were identified as terrorists?




Yeah, because random individual carries improvised explosives with them and toss them to the crowd right?

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## Kyle Sun

BoQ77 said:


> I still doubt about the painted story made out to lure kids ... 30,000 Han Chinese civilians ( I'm sure almost with long steel pipes, swords and axes as in 2009 ) and thousand policemen chased for 9 suspect into an abandoned house ...
> And policemen did the easiest task ... shot down all of 9 ...


You do not understand.

Gov did not know where are they . 

So people isolated the whole area and divided the area into different sections. And search it one by one.

This action required huge human resource , 30 thousands is not so many.

No way to hide !Shot them down is too mercy ,hang them is better


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## steelseries779

Xinjiang's new policy

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## HariPrasad

The day when they will have AKs in their Hand, They will become very Deadly.


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## BoQ77

steelseries779 said:


> View attachment 42235
> 
> 
> Xinjiang's new policy


can you translate ?


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## steelseries779

BoQ77 said:


> can you translate ?



why?

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## BoQ77

steelseries779 said:


> why?


reason to post that ? what for ?


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## pher

BoQ77 said:


> reason to post that ? what for ?


no need translation. We forbid all the forms appearing in the pics. pretty simple.

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## Kaniska

Good Job China....I hope one day India will learn how to kill all these terrorist in India like your country..


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## AbhimanyuShrivastav

Fracker said:


> It's better to chase down them now, or if they grew, even 100 thousand will be not enough. Check ISIS, Iraq and Syria.


Pakistan too


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## steelseries779

BoQ77 said:


> reason to post that ? what for ?



google translate


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## BoQ77

pher said:


> no need translation. We forbid all the forms appearing in the pics. pretty simple.



you hurting Malaysia, Indonesia, Islam world ...
Niqab, hijab, Burqa ... beard and islamic symbol ?


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## pher

BoQ77 said:


> you hurting Malaysia, Indonesia, Islam world ...
> Niqab, hijab, Burqa ... beard and islamic symbol ?


This is our way to counter terro. We don't care other's opinion when it comes to our national security and stability.

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## BoQ77

I doubt about its effective ...

by that, you attract more foreign terrorists. Al Qaida, Taliban for example ...


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## steelseries779

BoQ77 said:


> I doubt about its effective ...
> 
> by that, you attract more foreign terrorists



none of them are more harmful than Vietnamese, you are more harmful, you are cockroach.

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## Jlaw

steelseries779 said:


> none of them are more harmful than Vietnamese, you are more harmful, you are cockroach.




classic.

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## BoQ77

steelseries779 said:


> none of them are more harmful than Vietnamese, you are more harmful, you are cockroach.



yeah Uyghurs are peaceful people ... just like us ... if you don't touch to their back


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## pher

BoQ77 said:


> I doubt about its effective ...
> 
> by that, you attract more foreign terrorists. Al Qaida, Taliban for example ...


you doubt? do you have any experience in this?
It is better tough hand rather than being a hotbed brewing those terrorists.

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## Jlaw

BoQ77 said:


> yeah Uyghurs are peaceful people ... just like us ... if you don't touch to their back


Five Uighur Muslims and two Vietnamese police killed in gun fight
Read more at 

Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

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## TaiShang

steelseries779 said:


> View attachment 42235
> 
> 
> Xinjiang's new policy



Good. Ban all these symbols of terrorism. Those who oppose should be given a one-way ticket to the land of turks in stolen Rumelia.



BoQ77 said:


> you hurting Malaysia, Indonesia, Islam world ...
> Niqab, hijab, Burqa ... beard and islamic symbol ?

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## TaiShang

Kind-hearted citizen of China.
***
*Generous Xinjiang businessman wins hearts online*

An entrepreneur from ‪#‎Xinjiang‬ has won the hearts of netizens in ‪#‎China‬ for his generous assistance to the people of the quake-hit Yunnan Province.

*Adili Maimaititure, an Uygur businessman who runs an e-commerce company, decided to donate five tons of ‪#‎qiegao‬, or Xinjiang nut cakes, to the earthquake-stricken Ludian County on Tuesday.*

The 6.5-magnitude earthquake, which struck on Sunday, has claimed the lives of over 500 people, with over 1 million people affected.

Adili says that he was extremely moved by the plight of the people in the region.

*“I saw some pictures on the Internet showing people affected by the disaster were only given the most elementary food. So it came to my mind that qiegao is a good option for them since it’s both rich in nutrition and easy to carry,” he explained.*

Qiegao is made of stewed sugar, walnuts, dates and raisin, and is a typical‪ #‎Uygur‬ snack that can be preserved for a long time.

*Adili’s donation is estimated to be around 500,000 yuan (approx. 81,000 $), informed a staff member at his company’s warehouse.*

This act of kindness has won him many admirers on social media.

“What a nice guy! Qiegao is actually quite difficult to make. The ingredients are not cheap as well. But I hope this food can be truly delivered to the victims! ”

“Since there are so many rich people and celebrities in China, why would we need a self-made young Uygur student to donate disaster relief supplies?”

“Let there be love in this world…for those who spread rumors about Uygur people because of the actions of a few minorities, you should reflect on yourself first.”

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## sword1947

a good man, God will bless him

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## eazzy

Nice.

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## jkroo

They start business online in Changsha city that I mentioned before. Good people deserve good future.

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## Lux de Veritas




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## TaiShang

Khilafa (Caliphate) is a pipe-dream. Too much sucking on hookah and cheap Taliban crack make some see such hallucinations. 

Seriously though, political Islam is in its dead-bed; the few sane people in the ME who used to give the idea a chance now having a huge change of mind -- having seen the practical results of an attempt to establish one's own Islamic polity.

Certainly and ideally, all different voices must find a place in a traditionalist society, including the various Islamic ones, but, only after Islam has been reformed and secularized. 

There may be still some hope that Islam's secularization will be less painful than the Christian experience.


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## Nexus

China Wonders if Pakistan Is Responsible for Xinjiang Violence | The Diplomat

Interesting.....

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## Jf Thunder

really? i dont think we are involved, ask KSA, they have more Wahabis than us

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## 55100864

fake propaganda all over the internet, try harder

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## sahaliyan

55100864 said:


> fake propaganda all over the internet, try harder


Yeah,we all know Pakistan is cleaning their tribal area now,also many part of Afghanistan controlled by Taliban,and TTP,TIP hide in Afghan-Pakborder,so can't blame Pakistan here


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## Nexus

55100864 said:


> fake propaganda all over the internet, try harder


so u are member of CCP ?


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## 55100864

sahaliyan said:


> Yeah,we all know Pakistan is cleaning their tribal area now,also many part of Afghanistan controlled by Taliban,and TTP,TIP hide in Afghan-Pakborder,so can't blame Pakistan here


and we all know the US, Turkey and Germany are among the biggest sponsor of ETIM terro.

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## IsaacNewton

Why title says "Communist China" instead of just "China"?

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## 55100864

Nexus said:


> so u are member of CCP ?


so u are an member of ETIM?

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## armchairPrivate

The title reeks propaganda.
What's this? "*communist*-china-wonders-ifpakistan-is-responsible-for-xinjiangviolence."

Is there any other China?
A stir fried China?
A incur deep into India China?
A fetus eating China?

Come On! Grow Up!

OK Let me try me hand here.

The Chinese PLA incurs deep into the Hindu Nationalist India territories.
The fascist US supports the Nazi Ukraine.

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## Jf Thunder

aks47 said:


> China is afraid of Pakistan. Even if they some proof they won't act.


nice try to start a Pakistani and Chinese fight

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## 55100864

IsaacNewton said:


> Why title says "Communist China" instead of just "China"?


That's the art of propaganda, because the 'communist' suppose to be evil and should be hated by everyone, and u know that anyone with a half brain knew that china is the most capitalistic country in this planet.

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## Pakistani shaheens

Nexus said:


> China Wonders if Pakistan Is Responsible for Xinjiang Violence | The Diplomat
> 
> Interesting.....


 Indians who are aiding terrorists to destroy Pakistan and claiming Tibet to be their part, are posting such rubbish.


----------



## Okemos

IsaacNewton said:


> Why title says "Communist China" instead of just "China"?



Don't you know that every China related news will say communist China? It's like Islamic Pakistan, capitalist America, democratic India, lol I wish China is communist so I can get free food, free housing and living in a communal compound, lol.

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## Informant

Petty Indians trying to instigate a fight.

@Chak Bamu

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## Sam Manekshaw

So terrorist on Pakistani soil is nothing but a hoax.... You guyz are unbelievable.... God save Pakistan.. I thought u guyz will learn after this but once extremist always extremist.... Good work keep going....just ignoring all your bullshits.



Pakistani shaheens said:


> *Indians who are aiding terrorists to destroy Pakistan* and claiming Tibet to be their part are posting such rubbish.


Weird to understand that army of allah is handled by kafir commanders
@nair @OrionHunter

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## ranjeet

Pakistani shaheens said:


> Indians who are aiding terrorists to destroy Pakistan and claiming Tibet to be their part are posting such rubbish.


Aww butthurt much .. use burnol.


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## Pakistani shaheens

Sam Manekshaw said:


> Weird to understand that army of allah is handled by kafir commanders
> @nair @OrionHunter



Isn't this weird that this army (terrorist) is killing Muslims.


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## Sam Manekshaw

Pakistani shaheens said:


> Isn't this weird that this army (terrorist) is killing Muslims.


I think coz they come to know that muslim helping kafirs(american) are not real muslims.

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## tranquilium

Jf Thunder said:


> really? i dont think we are involved, ask KSA, they have more Wahabis than us



Where did China get involved? Look, the article is written by an Indian that is educated in US and published in a western newspaper. This article is as about Chinese as Panda express' sickeningly sweet Kong Pao chicken.

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## NKVD

tranquilium said:


> Where did China get involved? Look, the article is written by an Indian that is educated in US and published in a western newspaper. China has nothing to do with it.


Shooting the messenger won't help


----------



## Pakistani shaheens

Sam Manekshaw said:


> I think coz they come to know that muslim helping kafirs(american) are not real muslims.


So what about turkey? They are also Muslims and helping America in war against terror. Then why aren't they attacking them? Why are they attacking only Pakistanis.


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## Sam Manekshaw

Pakistani shaheens said:


> So what about turkey? They are also Muslims and helping America in war against terror. Then why aren't they attacking them?


Ask your countryman who still believe that they are warrior of allah.....it's more about confused ideology man nothing else....stop hiding others crime under religious propaganda otherwise it will haunt you in future. Backing religious extremist group is no good for any country who has more than one religion in it.


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## SQ8

By Akhilesh Pillalamarri
Yup, totally unbiased.
And very very VERY hollow. 

Not even worth discussing

Closed.

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## steelseries779

China will require identification from passengers buying long-distance bus tickets in far-western Xinjiang, state media said on Wednesday, as police seek to monitor travel in a region beset by violence.

Authorities, nervous about unrest in the region which is home to the Muslim Uighur minority group, have already introduced airline-like restrictions for city buses in the capital Urumqi - banning passengers from carrying onboard cigarette lighters, water and yogurt.

Beginning in September, passengers must present official identification to buy tickets at 119 bus stations in Xinjiang, the official Xinhua news agency said, citing a public security announcement.

"Passengers' ID and bus information will be printed on the tickets and also be uploaded to local police authorities," Xinhua said, adding that tickets would be checked for matching information.

China requires real-name registration for buying train tickets around the country, but rules for long-distance buses, widely used as a form of cheap transport, typically have been more relaxed.

The government has blamed a string of recent attacks in Xinjiang on Islamist militants and separatists it says are bent on establishing an independent state called East Turkestan.

Rights advocates say heavy-handed policies there, including restrictions on Islam and the Uighur people's culture and language, have contributed to unrest.

The Xinjiang city of Karamay has temporarily banned people with head scarves, veils and long beards from boarding buses, a policy critics have said openly discriminates against Uighurs.

Hundreds have died in unrest in Xinjiang in the past year and a half, but tight security makes it almost impossible for journalists to make independent assessments of the violence.

About 100 people were killed when knife-wielding attackers staged assaults in two towns in the region's south in late July, state media said, including 59 "terrorists" shot dead by police. A suicide bombing killed 39 people at a market in Urumqi in May.

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## TaiShang

*Terrorists executed in Xinjiang*

Eight convicted ‪#‎terrorists‬ in ‪#‎Xinjiang‬ were executed on Saturday after their sentences were approved by China’ Supreme People’s Court.

The eight were found guilty of ‪#‎crimes‬ including organizing, leading and participating in terrorist groups, murder, arson, and illegal manufacture, storage and transportation of explosives.

Three had been convicted of taking part in last summer’s Tiananmen Square terrorist attack in Beijing, when a vehicle plowed through the iconic square into a crowd, killing three ‪#‎civilians‬ and injuring 39 others.

The other five had been involved in terrorist ‪#‎attacks‬ in different parts of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

The ‪#‎Chinese‬ government says the executions represent the upholding of justice, and demonstrate their resolution to crack down on ‪#‎terrorism‬.

*




*

*



*

*



*

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## Winchester

Good...swift justice something we in Pakistan need to learn !


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## Europa

just see these nutjobs

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## dray

@Zarvan Your opinion?.


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## Edison Chen

Europa said:


> just see these nutjobs



Oh my godness, he also burned the flag of UK, US, Malaysia, Pakistan etc.

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## sree45

Good work china.


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## Edison Chen

_By William Wan and Xu Yangjingjing August 25 at 12:51 PM_

BEIJING — At a time when the restive region of Xinjiang has witnessed executions of alleged separatists, knife attacks on train passengers, and clashes between the Chinese government and forces it has identified as Muslim extremists, a film company believes that it has the answer: a cartoon princess.

With the encouragement of the authorities, a Chinese animation company is turning to a Disney-like character for help in bringing ethnic Uighurs and Han Chinese together.

“Princess Fragrant” is a 104-episode show based on the historic figure Ipal Khan.

*In a phone interview, its creators said they think the story of a princess from the Uighur Muslim minority who married a Chinese emperor in the 18th century could ease the ill will on both sides — or at least begin that process with the next generation.*

For years, some Uighurs and other Muslim minorities in Xinjiang have agitated against China’s authoritarian government. Their anger is a reaction, Uighur groups say, to oppressive official policies, religious restrictions and widespread discrimination.

Meanwhile, the government has presented its increasingly severe crackdowns as counterterrorism measures against rising extremism.

*Since August 2013, the animation company Shenzhen Qianheng Cultural Communications has spent more than $3 million producing the 3-D princess cartoon, which will air next year in Mandarin and Uighur.*

The company, based far from Xinjiang in the southern city of Shenzhen, is taking part in a government program that pairs 13 inland Chinese cities with cities in far-western Xinjiang in an effort to spur development.

Deng Jiangwei, director of the cartoon, said the animators chose to focus on Princess Fragrant — rendered with classic Disney-pixie cuteness and wide-eyed innocence — because of her historic contributions to ethnic unity and stability. She remains highly regarded in both Uighur and Han Chinese societies.

“Ethnic epic of splendor,” touts one poster.

In the cartoon, Princess Fragrant and her friends set out on an adventure to find her father, who was abducted by “evil forces” from the West. The villain was after a family heirloom, which turns out to be spiritual rather than monetary.

The company approached the Kashgar government last year with the idea. A supposed tomb of Princess Fragrant is one of the major tourist attractions in the city of Kashgar, even though historians doubt she is buried there.

Government officials eagerly welcomed the idea and promised funding, but the company has not yet received state financial support, Deng said. The company set up offices in Kashgar, and one-third of the employees there are Uighurs.

But tackling such a divisive relationship proved difficult, even in the imaginary world of cartoons.

*Most members of the design team in Shenzhen are Han Chinese, although for the cartoon they traveled in Xinjiang in an attempt to better understand its culture and history, and local experts were included to correct errors in their work, Deng said.*

Deng said they had to avoid making too many references to Islam in the cartoon, even though Princess Fragrant was a Uighur.

*“We cannot promote religion in our work, but we do refer to some aspects of the Islamic culture, such as etiquette, things that are easily acceptable to most people,” Deng said.*

He described their challenge as finding a balance between authentic Islamic culture and an entertaining story.

Despite their overt political aim, the producers said, they tried not to get too preachy in the message.

“It’s about family and growing up,” Deng said.

The princess is not the first cartoon character called upon to promote ethnic unity. Last year, Xinjiang children were treated to the TV series “Legend of Loulan,” about an ancient kingdom swallowed by shifting sands. It featured characters of different ethnicities banding together to beat a sand monster and save the kingdom.

Huang Zhiyong, who directed the Loulan series, said: “Kids are impressionable, and they like to imitate. Things they see on TV can greatly influence their values.”

The show aired last year in Mandarin only — a notable fact in the face of Uighur accusations that the government is trying to replace their traditions and language with Chinese ones. Huang said it is now in the process of being dubbed in Uighur.

Chinese animators hope cartoon princess can help ease ethnic tensions in Xinjiang - The Washington Post

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## TaiShang

*Local input crucial in developing bonds to resist terror in southern Xinjiang*

*By Xu Weihong*

Due to violent terrorist attacks, problems in Xinjiang have become the focus of both domestic and foreign opinion. 

Domestic research institutes and experts have provided suggestions to the local government. But after I spent months in southern Xinjiang, I found that in order to boost development in Xinjiang, we should start from the deep-rooted problems and think of innovative and pragmatic means.

*In a bid to improve governance and boost development of Xinjiang, we should deeply understand the basic needs in southern Xinjiang. Some development proposals raised by a number of experts and prominent economists are reasonable, but when it comes to southern Xinjiang, the actual situation at the grass-roots level must be taken into consideration. *

Officials at the county and township level there admit that although the ideas of some experts sound perfect, they would be difficult to implement.

*The social and production structure of southern Xinjiang differs greatly from that in the coastal areas and even northern Xinjiang. *

*The coastal areas have entered a post-industrialization and information era, and northern Xinjiang is heading toward heavy-industrialization. However, southern Xinjiang is still heavily dependent on agriculture.* It would not be practical to simply copy the development model of the coastal areas and promote manufacturing industries in this region.

In my field research in southern Xinjiang, I discovered that many villages adopted a practical way to connect ordinary people with the Party's "mass-line" campaign. 

For example, some extreme doctrines of Islamism do not allow the singing and dancing gatherings of the Uyghurs. In Langan town, the Party committee and the government built cultural squares in each village and encouraged villagers to take part in entertainment activities.

To carry out work at the grass-roots level of southern Xinjiang, we should rely on Party officials at the front line. With more terrorist attacks emerging, the local government has set up a watch post in each village. 

But due to a lack of financing, villagers do not want to be on duty every day. The Party authorities at the township level then bought billiard tables for every village, so that young people will not feel bored when on duty. 

In Langan town, every official has a notebook which records the important events of families that they hold responsibility for. These officials attend ceremonies of local families like wedding and funeral, so that villagers feel they are close to officials. In southern Xinjiang which still relies on agriculture, traditional "mass-line" work continues to play a critical role.

_The author is vice secretary-general of Chongqing Financial Association. __opinion@globaltimes.com.cn_

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## Developereo

China: Xinjiang hopes to win hearts with new cartoon - CNN.com

*China's restive far west hopes to win hearts with 'Princess Fragrant' cartoon*
By *Sophie Brown *and *Serena Dong* , CNN
August 26, 2014 -- Updated 0934 GMT (1734 HKT)




*
Hong Kong (CNN)* -- China has struggled to contain ethnic tensions in the far northwest region of Xinjiang, recently launching a crackdown after a series of violent attacks left hundreds dead in recent months.

But authorities think they may have found a new tonic to mend the cultural differences between the region's indigenous Uyghurs -- a mostly Muslim, Turkic-speaking group -- and China's dominant ethnic group, the Han Chinese.

Her name is Ipal Khan. The wide-eyed Uyghur beauty is the protagonist of an upcoming cartoon based on the well-known tale of a girl from the city of Kashgar who captivated China's Qianlong Emperor with her good looks and sweet fragrance in the 18th century and became his concubine.

According to the legend most Chinese are familiar with, the girl fell in love with the emperor and became his cherished consort.

"She is a figure that has contributed much to cross-cultural communication," Deng Jianglei, director of the cartoon, "Princess Fragrant," told CNN. The animation is set to become a television series at the end of 2015, and a film the following year.

Deng's company, Shenzhen Qianheng Cultural Communication Company, won a tender to create the 3-D animation last year, as part of a campaign by Xinjiang authorities to promote social harmony among China's different ethnic groups and raise awareness of the folk customs of the Uyghurs.

During a visit to the province in June, Deng and his colleagues were inspired by the natural beauty and rich culture of Xinjiang -- a region the size of Iran that shares borders with eight countries.

"The cultures there and the folk arts are exquisite. But the place's economy is less developed. So we wanted ... to help them promote their cultures," he said.

But appealing to both Han and Uyghur audiences may prove a challenge.

*Princess or sex slave?*

Selecting a musician to compose the theme song, for example, took over a year, China's Global Times reports, because it was difficult to find a composer who was familiar with both Han and Uyghur traditions.

Then there are the alternative versions of the Uyghur girl's story.

Although the legend of Fragrant Concubine has become a symbol of national unity for many Chinese, modern Uyghur interpretations of the tale portray her as an imperial sex slave who was murdered by the emperor's mother after stubbornly rejecting the emperor's advances.

Deng said he wants the series to be entertaining while also fulfilling "political needs."

"(The cartoon) is a re-understanding of the friendship between Han and Uyghurs, which is especially significant to the re-education of the children and teaching them to accept different cultures."

His animation company, working in collaboration with the government of Kashgar, has plans to show the cartoon in China and abroad, especially in Islamic regions.

Xinjiang has a long history of ethnic unrest. Some Uyghurs have expressed resentment toward the Han Chinese in recent years over what they say is harsh treatment by security forces, discrimination and a lack of economic opportunities.

Muslim separatists have been held responsible for a series of recent deadly attacks, with Chinese authorities launching an anti-terror campaign in May. Measures to end the violence have ranged from executing convicted terrorists to banning beards and Islamic dress in some areas.

But authorities have not ignored the role of soft power.

"It is similar as fighting a war in the realm of ideology. If we don't pass on positive energy, the opposite side would occupy the battlefield," Sheng Jun, a deputy director of cultural industry office at the Xinjiang Bureau of Culture told The Global Times.

Finding common ground, however, was difficult even among the animators.

Some of the more conservative Xinjiang artists who were consulted in the making of the cartoon objected to the use of animal characters because of the negative connotations associated with some creatures like snakes according to Islamic traditions, and because Uyghur families rarely own pets, the Global Times reports.

"The difficulty is that you have to respect history and culture while catering to the market," Deng said.

When it came to the animals, Deng insisted they should stay. "It's all about compromise," he said.


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## Raphael

UAVs used to locate suspects in Xinjiang anti-terrorism campaign - Headlines, features, photo and videos from ecns.cn|china|news|chinanews|ecns|cns

Unmanned aerial vehicles have been employed to aid anti-terrorism campaigns in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, China Space News reported Friday.

Personnel from the China Aerospace Science and Technology Cooperation (CASTC), who had been trained in operating unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), were sent to Xinjiang on July 31 at the request of the anti-terrorism command center in Xinjiang, after a fatal terrorist attack in Shache county on July 28, which left 37 civilians dead and 13 injured.

A technical support group equipped with UAVs and spare parts arrived in Ailixihu township, Shache county, on August 3.

Local special weapons and tactics (SWAT) officers were directed by the group at the scene to manipulate the UAVs to search for suspected terrorists in key regions including Ailixihu and Huangdi townships day and night.

The UAVs transmitted images in real time, providing clues to hunt for the suspects.

Police arrested 215, and another 18 suspects had surrendered by August 9.

The Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps also used UAVs to locate campsites in an anti-terror drill conducted on May 4, China Central Television reported.

The Public Security Department of Xinjiang cooperated with the CASTC to build up a satellite earth station equipped with a 6.2-meter-wide antenna on August 4 in a bid to facilitate smooth communications between the SWAT officers on the front line and the command center.

In order to enhance the counter-terrorism investigation capabilities of the police, the Xinjiang government bought a number of unmanned aircraft systems from the center for unmanned aircraft systems research, a division of the CASTC, in 2013.

The unmanned aircraft systems integrate emergency responses, command and dispatch, and air-land communication systems.

UAVs were also used during the anti-terrorism drill conducted by the port inspection station of Zhanjiang, Guangdong province, on Sunday, the Guangzhou-based Nanfang Daily reported.

The armed police employed UAVs to patrol the grounds and respond to emergencies as they provided a bird's-eye view of the port.

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## third eye

Violent terrorism taking toll on tourism, investment in Xinjiang - Global Times

_The sporadic terrorist attacks haunting the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region have not only strained people's nerves, but also hit the local economy hard, devastating tourism, inbound investment and tertiary industries. For the first time in two decades, visitor numbers declined this year as investor confidence has also been shaken, with many hesitant about whether to invest in Xinjiang. Local authorities and the public are now scrambling to find ways to bring the economy back on track and ensure social stability._






A cloth vendor waits for customers in a bazaar in Kashgar, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. Photo: Cui Meng/GT


Bi Cheng (pseudonym), an official from the Party Committee of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, vigorously shook hands with Zhang Yishuai, a teacher from the Beijing No.55 Middle School, expressing his gratitude for Zhang's visit to Xinjiang.

Zhang was visiting at a critical time. It was in August; just days after a terrorist attack in Shache county killed 37 civilians and injured 94.

"Thanks a lot for visiting us in Xinjiang," Bi said, excitedly.

Bi's excitement wasn't feigned. Due to a series of violent attacks in Xinjiang, the local tourism industry had shrunk dramatically, hitting its worst point in the past two decades.

"In the first half of this year, the tourism industry in Xinjiang declined for the first time in the past two decades," Ma Rui, spokesman and deputy inspector of the Xinjiang Tourism Bureau, told the Southern Weekly.

Zhong Liangyou, a local guide who has been in the industry for 12 years, echoed this. He said the tourism situation this year is no better than the situation after 2009's July 5 riot in Urumqi, which left 197 dead.

The industry picked up again in 2010, with its tourist population maintaining a year-on-year growth of 20 percent, official statistics from the local tourism administration showed. The turning point happened in 2013 when growth slowed down to 7 percent, and eventually, in the first half of this year, the growth fell below zero. 

*Tourism is not the only industry being affected by the tense situation in Xinjiang. *

According to a Southern Weekly report in August, the unpredictable violence has had a considerable negative influence on the local economy as a whole, affecting sectors ranging from tourism, investment from other provinces, and other tertiary industries.

Xinjiang's GDP growth slowed down in the second quarter of this year, a significant slowdown compared with the rapid growth in the past years since 2010, official statistics from Xinjiang Development and Reform Commission showed.

Zhang Chunlin, director of the Xinjiang Development and Reform Commission, said the economic decline was *attributable to the unstable situation caused by the violent attacks. Zhang also said it may have a negative influence on the confidence of investors.*

"I have to admit that it has certainly influenced the confidence of the investors, but we have to understand that the influence is temporary and it won't have a huge impact in the long run," Zhang said, trying to dispel fears.





Tourists visit Kumutage Desert in northern Xinjiang. Photo: CFP



*Strike on tourism*

Under ordinary circumstances, summer is the high season for Xinjiang's tourism industry.

In past years, it was difficult to book a room in local chain hotels, but this year there were plenty of vacancies, sparking complaints from hotel owners. At least five hotels in Kashgar interviewed by the Global Times said there had been a decrease in visitors of at least 60 percent. 

Where once the old streets of Kashgar were visited by Chinese and foreign tourists, in recent weeks there have been hardly any visitors.

Several vendors in Kashgar's big bazaar complained about the bad business environment. "It used to be filled with visitors, but now we have to rely on local people, who don't spend so much, to maintain the business," said a Uyghur owner of a clothing shop who asked not to be named.

Zheng Sui, general manager of the Xinjiang International Travel Agency affiliated with the China Youth Travel Service, said increasing numbers of Xinjiang locals visited other places while fewer non-local tourists came to Xinjiang in the first half of the year. 

"The number of non-local tourists received by our agency declined at least 40 percent, which dramatically affected our overall profit," said Zheng, whose company occupies the largest share of Xinjiang tourism market.

Tour guide Zhong Youliang attributed the decline in the number of visitors to the attack on July 28 in Shache county, Kashgar, that left 37 civilians dead and 94 injured.

It was the fourth violent incident to occur in Xinjiang this year. Sporadic violent attacks have been seen in regions like Kashgar and Hotan, and are straining people's nerves.

"The tourism industry in Xinjiang was slightly better in July, but all of a sudden, the number of tourists dropped drastically in August after the attack in Shache," Zhong said.

Official statistics from the local tourism administration recording visitors to the world-famous Kanas Lake scenic area supported Zhong's speculation. The number of visitors in July picked up a little bit on a year-on-year basis, while in the first half of August, the number of tourists dropped at least 14.7 percent, and the total number of visitors to Xinjiang in the first half of August reached 77,000.

"Each time there has a violent attack, a lot of visitors began to doubt whether they would be safe in Xinjiang if they paid a visit. Plus, the widespread rumors triggered by violent attacks have had a very bad influence among people, making it difficult to reverse their opinions about Xinjiang in a short time," spokesman of Xinjiang tourism administration Ma Rui said.

However, Ma stressed that travelling in Xinjiang is safe. "None of the violent attacks targeted tourists, and there have been no violent attacks in the tourist areas. We have faith we can ensure the safety of tourists," Ma said.

A dozen local guides, including Zhong Liangyou, said it's normal for travel groups to cancel trips due to safety concerns. Even some backpackers said they would shorten their itineraries or choose a safer travel route.

Liang Mengrun, the owner of a hostel in Kashgar said he had accepted far fewer backpackers than the previous year. Last year, his hostel with 60 beds was filled to capacity, while this summer two-thirds of the beds went unoccupied.

The declining number of tourists has forced a considerable number of guides to look for other job opportunities.

Zhong Liangyou said many of his colleagues transferred to real estate agencies, shops and restaurants. 

Some tour guides, in an effort to reverse the situation, organized activities to promote a positive image of Xinjiang. Abusamad Ahaiti, a 25-year-old Uyghur guide, posted a public advertisement on popular WeChat public account "The Last Kilometer," sending out an invitation to visitors all across the world to pay a visit to Xinjiang. 

"I have to do something to tell people that Xinjiang is a safe and nice place, and we always welcome you," Ahaiti said.

The invitation sent by Ahaiti has received a positive response from tourists and over 300 guides from all over the world.

*Losing investors' confidence*

Local investment has also been affected.

Concerned about the violence taking place in Xinjiang, some coastal companies who have investments in that region have become worried about the safety of their personnel and property, despite incentives from Xinjiang authorities such as tax cuts and cheap electricity.

Despite a nationwide slowdown in economic growth, Xinjiang's economy began to pick up in recent years due to the massive amount of fixed assets investment. A lot of companies from other provinces were attracted to invest in Xinjiang, which pushed up the GDP growth in recent years. But due to the violent attacks, investor confidence has been shaken.

In 2011, Xinjiang's GDP growth rate ranked 21st among 31 province-level administrations, while in 2013, its GDP growth rose to sixth. In the first quarter of this year, it reached the highest growth point, at 10.2 percent.

However, the GDP growth rate dropped in the second quarter of this year.

Ning Haixing (pseudonym), a Zhejiang businessman, has been considering moving his factory to Xinjiang for a long time.

As a company which specializes manufacturing mobile phone screen, the electricity consumption of his business is huge.

Ning has been considering moving to Shihezi, a city in Xinjiang, over 4,000 kilometers from his hometown in Zhejiang. Last year, a friend of his who owns a science and technology company invested over 350 million yuan in Shihezi to build a factory there and now it is making a profit.

"The fees for electricity for industrial use are much lower. We could save half of our expenses on electricity and pay the fee monthly instead of weekly, which would leave me with adequate cash flow to run the business," Ning said.

However, considering the security situation in Xinjiang, Ning has delayed moving to Xinjiang.

For many other businessmen like Ning, the attractive policies and cheaper expenses aren't enough to offset the higher costs in terms of logistics and human resources in Xinjiang, now compounded by the violence.

"I have been worried about something awful happening to my employees, considering the situation. Also, the investment here might be influenced by the strict anti-terrorist measures," Luo Lijian, president of the Shenzhen Haoyuan Environment Protection Company, told the Global Times. 

Luo recalled how people from other provinces always discussed the safety situation each time before they gathered for a meeting or a private party.

"It was like a routine for us to check on others' safety," Luo said.

"I told the employees not to hang out at night, certainly not alone, to ensure their safety."

Luo is not alone in his concerns. With the increasing expenses incurred by social stability maintenance in Xinjiang, the violent attacks in the region have stalled, albeit with more and more money and human resources pouring into public security.

Statistics from local finance administration showed that in the first half year of this year, among the total public expenses of 14.61 billion yuan in Xinjiang, public security took up 9.39 billion, representing a year-on-year growth of 12.4 percent.

Zhang Lide, deputy director of the Xinjiang Finance Department, said it is normal for such growth in public security expenses.

In Xinjiang, especially in southern Xinjiang where the anti-terrorist situation has been stricter, local authorities have been zealously hunting down the culprits. Since the start of a special campaign to crack down on violent attacks, the local public security bureaus have direct massive manpower and physical resources to this task.

"We still hold an optimistic attitude toward the development of Xinjiang," Zhang Chunlin said.

"We are sure, with the crackdown on the violent attacks in Xinjiang and improvements to the development of livelihoods, the social stability situation will improve."

Southern Weekly - Global Times


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## DoTell

Article too long, too predictable. Nothing new. If the title was "Violent terrorism not taking a toll on anything at all", then that will be something to read about


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## Levina

Based on whatever lil infocame out in the international media it appears the attack in Xinjiang was closer to a large uprising among Uyghurs rather than an attack carried out by a terrorist cell. This uprising was almost certainly the result of the repressive policies China announced had for the month of Ramadan and possibly for the mass arrests and killings as part of the new war on terrorism.
Frankly the terrorism campaign by chinese govt is indiscriminate to say the least. The fact that hundreds of ppl were arrested during the first month of the war on terror suggests that Chinese authorities are conducting mass arrests of individuals which also means that the Chinese authorities do not have good intelligence on the actual terrorists and are having trouble serious getting ordinary citizens to cooperate in providing intelligence on them.

Btw the deserted streets of Xinjiang reminds me of Kashmir.


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## The Unnamed

levina said:


> And the terrorism campaign by chinese govt is widely indiscriminate. The fact that hundreds of ppl were arrested during the first month of the war on terror suggests that Chinese authorities are conducting mass arrests of individuals,which also means that the Chinese authorities do not have good intelligence on the actual terrorists and are having trouble serious getting ordinary citizens to cooperate in providing intelligence on them.The widespread crackdown would alienate the local population making them even more unwilling to cooperate with Chinese authorities in helping them locate the actual individuals involved in terrorism.
> 
> Btw the deserted streets of Xinjiang reminds me of Kashmir.



If the world knew what the chinese are doing in Xinjiang...it's nothing compared to Kashmir.

OTOH, they have a key pawn in the game of retaliatory international jihad in their hands. Literally.


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## general_yermolov_stalin

levina said:


> Based on whatever lil infocame out in the international media it appears the attack in Xinjiang was closer to a large uprising among Uyghurs rather than an attack carried out by a terrorist cell. This uprising was almost certainly the result of the repressive policies China announced had for the month of Ramadan and possibly for the mass arrests and killings as part of the new war on terrorism.
> Frankly the terrorism campaign by chinese govt is indiscriminate to say the least. The fact that hundreds of ppl were arrested during the first month of the war on terror suggests that Chinese authorities are conducting mass arrests of individuals which also means that the Chinese authorities do not have good intelligence on the actual terrorists and are having trouble serious getting ordinary citizens to cooperate in providing intelligence on them.
> 
> Btw the deserted streets of Xinjiang reminds me of Kashmir.



International media? lol.... 

@Chinese-Dragon


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## Levina

general_yermolov_stalin said:


> International media? lol....
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon


????
In short whatever I read.

And i am not staying in China so yes the "international media".


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## Nova2

It should have been predicted,if there are such terrorist attacks in a region which heavily depends on tourism ,it is bound to slow down post attacks. Its quite general that people would opt for some other place than Xinjiang. I guess it will remain the same for a few months and will pick up again later ,provided if there are no more attacks. This will make local population realise as well,that how much can such attacks affect'em,and perhaps will refrain from helping any terrorist,if they in a way are.



general_yermolov_stalin said:


> International media? lol....
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon


She didn't say anything wrong.International media does talk about religious freedom that people have in xinjiang. Which they belive is the resaon for such attacks. Now call it a western media fart or anything such news are indeed doing rounds ,whenever such attacks happen.


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## Hypersonicmissiles

A new water-saving irrigation technology has been successfully tested in the growing area of Hami in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.

With the *Trace Quantity Irrigation* technology, *date trees in the test land yield the same output with only 30 percent to 40 percent of the water volume that would be needed with drip irrigation.*

*The key part of the TQI system is a water-controlling tip that is put underground near crops' roots. The tip delivers water directly to the roots at a speed that's consistent with crops' absorption rate.*

Drip irrigation sends water to the soil through small holes in plastic pipes.

*With the same amount of water, the TQI system can irritate twice as much land as with drip irrigation, and more than 10 times that of flood irrigation.*

According to Zhu Jun, a professor at Huazhong University of Science and Technology and the inventor of TQI technology, the test project in Hami has achieved several breakthroughs in water-saving irrigation.

*Previously, under the drip irrigation system, the flow volume must be higher than 1.36 liters per hour.*

*However, with TQI technology, the flow volume can be lower than 200 milliliters per hour, making it possible to irrigate the land at a much lower rate of water flow.*

*Thus, water use efficiency is greatly improved. One cubic meter of water can be used to irrigate more than 0.4 hectare, which is about 4,000 square meters of land. With drip irrigation, 1 cubic meter of water can irrigate 0.2 hectare, while for flood irrigation it will cover 0.033 hectare.*

*Additionally, a single well can irrigate more land. And only two valves will be needed with TQI, when 20 are necessary for drip irrigation.*

*The TQI technology can also reduce seepage of fertilizers, improving fertilizers' efficiency and decreasing pollution to groundwater.*

The Hami region is one of the most arid growing areas in China, with annual precipitation of less than 50 mm.

Xinjiang water authorities said on Aug 26 that the *TQI technology not only helps them save water, but also prevents the emitter from becoming blocked, which happens easily in the drip irrigation system.*

*TQI technology has also been tested in Beijing, Hebei and Ningxia.*

*It was invented jointly by a research center at Huazhong University of Science & Technology in Hubei province and Beijing Puquan Science & Technology Co Ltd. It is expected to help solve China's water shortage.*

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## Lux de Veritas

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> A new water-saving irrigation technology has been successfully tested in the growing area of Hami in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.
> 
> With the *Trace Quantity Irrigation* technology, *date trees in the test land yield the same output with only 30 percent to 40 percent of the water volume that would be needed with drip irrigation.*
> 
> *The key part of the TQI system is a water-controlling tip that is put underground near crops' roots. The tip delivers water directly to the roots at a speed that's consistent with crops' absorption rate.*
> 
> Drip irrigation sends water to the soil through small holes in plastic pipes.
> 
> *With the same amount of water, the TQI system can irritate twice as much land as with drip irrigation, and more than 10 times that of flood irrigation.*
> 
> According to Zhu Jun, a professor at Huazhong University of Science and Technology and the inventor of TQI technology, the test project in Hami has achieved several breakthroughs in water-saving irrigation.
> 
> *Previously, under the drip irrigation system, the flow volume must be higher than 1.36 liters per hour.*
> 
> *However, with TQI technology, the flow volume can be lower than 200 milliliters per hour, making it possible to irrigate the land at a much lower rate of water flow.*
> 
> *Thus, water use efficiency is greatly improved. One cubic meter of water can be used to irrigate more than 0.4 hectare, which is about 4,000 square meters of land. With drip irrigation, 1 cubic meter of water can irrigate 0.2 hectare, while for flood irrigation it will cover 0.033 hectare.*
> 
> *Additionally, a single well can irrigate more land. And only two valves will be needed with TQI, when 20 are necessary for drip irrigation.*
> 
> *The TQI technology can also reduce seepage of fertilizers, improving fertilizers' efficiency and decreasing pollution to groundwater.*
> 
> The Hami region is one of the most arid growing areas in China, with annual precipitation of less than 50 mm.
> 
> Xinjiang water authorities said on Aug 26 that the *TQI technology not only helps them save water, but also prevents the emitter from becoming blocked, which happens easily in the drip irrigation system.*
> 
> *TQI technology has also been tested in Beijing, Hebei and Ningxia.*
> 
> *It was invented jointly by a research center at Huazhong University of Science & Technology in Hubei province and Beijing Puquan Science & Technology Co Ltd. It is expected to help solve China's water shortage.*



Xinjiang aquifer is drying up, especially in Turpan. Unlike Urumqi where Tianshan water can be further diverted, the future for Turfan, Kumul, Shanshan, Hami is bleak. These places are hopeless and their aquifer is diminishing at a terrifying rate.

Some PRC support diverting sea water to Xinjiang 引渤入疆. I think the best way is to divert yellow river to Xinjiang 引黄入疆. But yellow river is drying up also. So the best way is to divert Brahmaputra to yellow river.

Before, I have rebuttal a PRC guy idea of water diverting Brahmaputra water from Tibet. Now I am more incline to support the idea. I have studied the water flow of Brahmaputra. Basically Tibet China is a big desert. The Brahmaputra that has more water is at the area close to Indian border like Medog 藏南墨脱.

Some Chinese engineer propose a series of dam linking Brahmaputra (near India border) with Yangtze, then Yellow river. From Liujiaxia reservoir 刘家峡, somewhere near Lanzhou, build a canal to Xinjiang.

This project will cause trillions.


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## Jlaw

Lux de Veritas said:


> Xinjiang aquifer is drying up, especially in Turpan. Unlike Urumqi where Tianshan water can be further diverted, the future for Turfan, Kumul, Shanshan, Hami is bleak. These places are hopeless and their aquifer is diminishing at a terrifying rate.
> 
> Some PRC support diverting sea water to Xinjiang 引渤入疆. I think the best way is to divert yellow river to Xinjiang 引黄入疆. But yellow river is drying up also. So the best way is to divert Brahmaputra to yellow river.
> 
> Before, I have rebuttal a PRC guy idea of water diverting Brahmaputra water from Tibet. Now I am more incline to support the idea. I have studied the water flow of Brahmaputra. Basically Tibet China is a big desert. The Brahmaputra that has more water is at the area close to Indian border like Medog 藏南墨脱.
> 
> Some Chinese engineer propose a series of dam linking Brahmaputra (near India border) with Yangtze, then Yellow river. From Liujiaxia reservoir 刘家峡, somewhere near Lanzhou, build a canal to Xinjiang.
> 
> This project will cause trillions.



The Brahmaputra is a big river that can help solve water shortage in northern regions of China. If it is feasible the government will go ahead with the project even if the Indians cry.

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## Okemos

Lux de Veritas said:


> Xinjiang aquifer is drying up, especially in Turpan. Unlike Urumqi where Tianshan water can be further diverted, the future for Turfan, Kumul, Shanshan, Hami is bleak. These places are hopeless and their aquifer is diminishing at a terrifying rate.
> 
> Some PRC support diverting sea water to Xinjiang 引渤入疆. I think the best way is to divert yellow river to Xinjiang 引黄入疆. But yellow river is drying up also. So the best way is to divert Brahmaputra to yellow river.
> 
> Before, I have rebuttal a PRC guy idea of water diverting Brahmaputra water from Tibet. Now I am more incline to support the idea. I have studied the water flow of Brahmaputra. Basically Tibet China is a big desert. The Brahmaputra that has more water is at the area close to Indian border like Medog 藏南墨脱.
> 
> Some Chinese engineer propose a series of dam linking Brahmaputra (near India border) with Yangtze, then Yellow river. From Liujiaxia reservoir 刘家峡, somewhere near Lanzhou, build a canal to Xinjiang.
> 
> This project will cause trillions.



Trillions? Gee, I am really skeptical of any projects or big investment in southern Xinjiang. 到头来都是为为别人作嫁衣, like what USSR did in Ukraine.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Okemos said:


> Trillions? Gee, I am really skeptical of any projects or big investment in southern Xinjiang. 到头来都是为为别人作嫁衣, like what USSR did in Ukraine.



Now you have finally showed your true color.

So you wanna see Xinjiang to split from China just like Ukraine from USSR?

This is what I expected to hear from a butthurt KMT fanboy. And I would recommend all Chinese members here to put you into the ignored list.

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## jkroo

Okemos said:


> Trillions? Gee, I am really skeptical of any projects or big investment in southern Xinjiang. 到头来都是为为别人作嫁衣, like what USSR did in Ukraine.


Man, you are wrong. You need to be more confident. 

恕我直言，你的类比是错误的和愚蠢的。

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## ChineseTiger1986

jkroo said:


> Man, you are wrong. You need to be more confident.
> 
> 恕我直言，你的类比是错误的和愚蠢的。



浙江居然出了那么多像Okemos那样的煞笔果粉，让我这个有浙江血统的上海人都感到脸红了。

像花生米这种民族败类只有NC浙江果粉才会去吹捧。

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## jkroo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 浙江居然出了那么多像Okemos那样的煞笔果粉，让我这个有浙江血统的上海人都感到脸红了。
> 
> 像花生米这种民族败类只有NC浙江果粉才会去吹捧。



呵呵，杭州人都说杭州是上海的后花园啦。花生？？听听杭州的出租车司机讲西湖旁的物业就知道了。

那谁想当果粉还得要更有文化点，然后要脸皮更厚点，更无耻点。

有一种现象：三代前家道中落的记仇果民后裔，很愿意做这种让人不齿之事。

PS:我是湖南人

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## Okemos

jkroo said:


> Man, you are wrong. You need to be more confident.
> 
> 恕我直言，你的类比是错误的和愚蠢的。



I wish I could, but one can never be sure of anything in future. I am rather cautious than sorry. Of course I have never been to southern Xinjiang and never read any "objective" assessment of popular opinions of people there, so hopefully I am wrong.


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## sahaliyan

果粉一般都有皇汉情结
这里还有其他东北人吗？似乎大多是南方网友？


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## ChineseTiger1986

jkroo said:


> 呵呵，杭州人都说杭州是上海的后花园啦。花生？？听听杭州的出租车司机讲西湖旁的物业就知道了。
> 
> 那谁想当果粉还得要更有文化点，然后要脸皮更厚点，更无耻点。
> 
> 有一种现象：三代前家道中落的记仇果民后裔，很愿意做这种让人不齿之事。
> 
> PS:我是湖南人



都21世纪了，还记恨TG当年充公了他祖先所搜刮的民脂民膏，所以说果粉的骨子里还是封建余孽，最没有资格谈民主就是他们这群人。



sahaliyan said:


> 果粉一般都有皇汉情结
> 这里还有其他东北人吗？似乎大多是南方网友？



借着皇汉反共而已

到了割地卖国的时候比谁都来劲

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## jkroo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> 都21世纪了，还记恨TG当年充公了他祖先所搜刮的民脂民膏，所以说果粉的骨子里还是封建余孽，最没有资格谈民主就是他们这群人。
> 
> 
> 
> 借着皇汉反共而已
> 
> 到了割地卖国的时候比谁都来劲



借着这个机会讲个故事：我老婆爷爷是苏州人，他三代前祖辈从苏州到湖南做生意，祖宅无比大。他老人家是老知识分子，老国民党员，没去台湾，之后就是民革的啦。当然，后来祖宅被我之前单位给拆了，就补了四套房。 老人家只字不提国民党的，偶尔和老伙计说说宋楚瑜和马英九，也是湖南老乡吗，每逢大事吟诗作对，没拿到离休，但拿退休工资将近40年直至93岁过世。倒是后辈有点后悔没从祖宅弄几幅字画出来老人家过得很充实，也没见他反这反那。

所以，人的品性和格局决定了他看问题的态度，那种为私欲而反的人终将被社会抛弃。

我觉得嘛，民主的希望在中国农村，他们培养了多年的民主素养了，朴素而接地气，如果都大学生了，那就好办了，西方和香港还得都Tm靠边。

跑题了，碎叫

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## TaiShang

*Chinese cartoon to showcase Xinjiang culture*

Chinese animators are working on a new series that tells the coming-of-age story of a legendary Uygur girl in Xinjiang.

*The 104-episode cartoon series, "Princess Fragrant," is based on the tale of the Fragrant Concubine, a beautiful Uygur woman from Xinjiang's Kashgar City. According to legend, she became a concubine of Emperor Qianlong in the 18th century during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911).*

"The heroine is depicted as a 10-year-old girl in the cartoon, and the storyline is all fictional and has nothing to do with history," said Lu Jun, chairman of Shenzhen Qianheng Cultural Communications Company, which is producing the series.

Director Deng Jiangwei said the cartoon tells the story of how heroine Iparhan went abroad to look for her father and protect the Silk Road with the help of her friends.

"It's a story about growing up and love, and we also want to replicate the beauty of Xinjiang history and culture in our production," he said.

After deciding to make the series in late 2012, the producers went to Xinjiang for field research and set up a subsidiary company in the region.

The producers traveled along a section of the ancient Silk Road in Xinjiang to explore the beauty of the landscape. They also collected pictures of children from different ethnic groups, landmark architecture, ethnic costumes, and information on traditional dances and legends, which were later incorporated into the animation.

The producers consulted local artists and scholars to better respect local customs and accurately represent different ethnic groups, according to Deng. More than 30 cultural experts from different ethnic groups have given their suggestions on plotlines, characters, scenery, and costumes.

*Deng said the company has invited a Uygur singer to write and sing the cartoon's theme song.*

"Hopefully, the production will contribute to cross-cultural communication among different ethnic groups," Lu Jun said.

Lu said the company is also preparing to produce an opera and film on the same subject.

*It is not the first time an artistic work has been inspired by the Fragrant Concubine. The love story of the Uygur concubine and the emperor has been adapted into several stage and television productions.*

Song Tong, lecturer at the Institute of Qing History at Renmin University of China, said the story of the Fragrant Concubine depicted in artistic works has been based on different versions of folklore.

There is no historical record of anybody called "Fragrant Concubine" in the imperial palace during the Qing Dynasty, according to Song.

He said Emperor Qianlong only had one Uygur concubine, called "Concubine Rong," and it is widely believed that the story of Fragrant Concubine is based on her.

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## Jlaw

香香公主, see 書劍恩仇錄


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## Europa

it would be better to call her a genuine 'lover' instead of concubine

a very rare portrait of her and she perhaps looked liked this


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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang plans multi-ethnic settlement in rural south*
By Cathy Wong Source:Global Times 

In its latest move to promote ethnic integration in less- developed regions, China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is building a pilot settlement for residents from multiple ethnicities in a rural desert area outside the city of Hotan as a social experiment to facilitate cultural exchanges and curb terror activities. 

Analysts have expressed their approval for the plan to build such a settlement in southern Xinjiang's Hotan, which has a Uyghur population of more than 95 percent, but cautioned that the high cost could impede the government from promoting similar settlements elsewhere. 

According to the Xinjiang Daily on Sunday, the 6,700 mu, or 447 hectares, residential community, intended to help foster economic and social integration among different ethnic groups, is currently under construction in the desert outside the city of Hotan, and will be ready for residents to move in at the end of this year. 

The new settlement will consist of 600 housing apartments and 600 greenhouses. Built on an area with abundant groundwater, it will provide every household with a greenhouse, a courtyard and 0.33 hectares of fruit orchard to facilitate agricultural entrepreneurialism. 

Over 6,000 peasant households from minority ethnic groups and 700 Han farmers from nearby villages and townships have applied to move into the community, and will go through a selection process competing for the 600 openings. The criteria for selection have yet to be disclosed. 

*Multi-ethnic integration was one of the key issues at the second central work conference on Xinjiang held in Beijing in May, during which President Xi Jinping called for the region to build communities for residents of different ethnic groups will boost understanding by living, working, and studying together.* 

His speech came against the backdrop of rising numbers of ethnically Han residents of southern Xinjiang moving out of Uyghur neighborhoods in recent years, and vice versa. 

A Xinjiang expert who has lived in a similarly mixed community believed the new settlement could help facilitate cultural exchanges and curb terror activities. 

*"From my experience, a mixed community like this one will greatly enhance communications between different ethnic groups, especially when they work and socialize in the same spaces," Sun Lizhou, a research fellow at Chongqing University who grew up in a mixed ethnic community for civil servants in Urumqi, told the Global Times. *

*This is not the first such community in Xinjiang. A similar settlement in the resource-rich city of Karamay has already achieved satisfactory results, reported Xinjiang Daily. *

Sun believes the new settlement in the southern part of Hotan will serve an as a model for cross-ethnic economic cooperation in southern Xinjiang. 

Hotan has seen repeated outbreaks of violence over the past years. 

In 2011, 18 terrorists stormed into a local public security bureau. Their attack took the lives of four civilians and a local militaman while setting the building on fire. 

"Hotan is the city in Xinjiang with the highest population of Uyghurs, proportionally speaking. That's what has made the settlement project a focus of attention," Li Xiaoxia, a professor with the Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times. 

But Li believes such settlements are not likely to spread across the whole of Xinjiang, because of the steep capital and resource requirements to build a new community in a desert area. 

Others, like Turgunjan Tursun, a research fellow at the Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences, are concerned about whether the government will have to force people to relocate. 

"The public's choice in housing has become market-oriented and it has become harder for the government to plan the composition of a community's population," said Turgunjan. 

"The intended effect of ethnic integration will not be seen in a short period of time. The authorities must not force the progress of reallocation," he said.

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## jkroo

Another benefit from policy, I wanna live in Xinjiang, now!

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## paranoiarocks

By Simon Denyer September 19 


SHACHE COUNTY, China – The month of Ramadan should have been a time of fasting, charity and prayer in China’s Muslim west. But here, in many of the towns and villages of southern Xinjiang, it was a time of fear, repression, and violence.

China’s campaign against separatism and terrorism in its mainly Muslim west has now become an all-out war on conservative Islam, residents here say.

Throughout Ramadan,police intensified a campaign of house-to-house searches, looking for books or clothing that betray “conservative” religious belief among the region’s ethnic Uighurs: women wearing veils were widely detained, and many young men arrested on the slightest pretext, residents say. Students and civil servants were forced to eat instead of fasting, and work or attend classes instead of attending Friday prayers.

The religious repression has bred resentment, and, at times, deadly protests. Reports have emerged of police firing on angry crowds in recent weeks in the towns of Elishku, and Alaqagha; since then, Chinese authorities have imposed a complete blackout on reporting from both locations, even more intense than that already in place across most of Xinjiang.



VIEW GRAPHIC 
Chinese police have cracked down on the wearing of beards and veils, in observance of Ramadan, in Muslim-majority Xinjiang province.
A Washington Post team was turned away at the one of several checkpoints around Elishku, as army trucks rumbled past, and was subsequently detained for several hours by informers, police and Communist Party officials for reporting from villages in the surrounding district of Shache county; the following day, the team was again detained in Alaqagha in Kuqa county, and ultimately deported from the region from the nearest airport.

Across Shache county, the Internet has been cut, and text messaging services disabled, while foreigners have been barred. But in snatched conversations, in person and on the telephone, with the few people in the region brave enough to talk, a picture of constant harassment across Xinjiang emerges.

“The police are everywhere,” said one Uighur resident. Another said it was like “living in prison.” Another said his identity card had been checked so many times, “the magnetic strip is not working any more.”

On July 18, hundreds of people gathered outside a government building in the town of Alaqagha, angry about the arrest of two dozen girls and women who had refused to remove their headscarves, according to a report on Washington-based Radio Free Asia (RFA).

Protesters threw stones, bottles and bricks at the building; the police opened fire, killing at least two people, and wounding several more.

Then, on July 28, the last day of Ramadan, a protest in Elishku was met with an even more violent response, RFA reported. Hundreds of Uighurs attacked a police station with knives, axes and sticks; again, the police opened fire, mowing down scores of people.

China's official Xinhua news agency said police killed 59 Uighur “terrorists"in the incident, although other reports suggest the death toll could have been significantly higher.

. The region has been in lockdown ever since, with police and SWAT teams arresting more than 200 people and drones scanning for suspects from the air.

Xinjiang is a land of deserts, oases and mountains, flanked by the Muslim lands of Central Asia. Its Uighur people are culturally more inclined towards Turkey than the rest of China.

China says foreign religious ideas — often propagated over the Internet— have corrupted the people of Xinjiang, promoting fundamentalist Saudi Arabian Wahhabi Islam and turning some of them towards terrorism in pursuit of separatist goals. It also blames a radical Islamist Uighur group — said to be based in Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas and to have links to al-Qaeda — for a recent upsurge in violence. In March, a gruesome knife attack at a train station in the city of Kunming left 33 people dead, while in May, a bomb attack on a street market in Urumqi killed 43 others.

In response, President Xi Jinping has vowed to catch the terrorists “with nets spreading from the earth to the sky,” and to chase them “like rats scurrying across the street, with everybody shouting, ‘Beat them.’ ”

But the nets appear to be also catching many innocent people, residents complain. “You should arrest the bad guys,” said one Uighur professional in Urumqi, “not just anyone who looks suspicious.”

Some 200,000 Communist Party cadres have been dispatched to the countryside, ostensibly to listen to people’s concerns. Yet those officials, who often shelter behind compound walls fortified with alarms and barbed wire, appear to be more interested in ever-more intrusive surveillance of Uighur life, locals say.

In Shache, known in Uighur as Yarkand, an official document boasts of spending more than $2 million to establish a network of informers and surveillance cameras. House-to-house inspections, it says, will identify separatists, terrorists and religious extremists – including women who cover their faces with veils or burqas, and young men with long beards.

In the city of Kashgar, checkpoints enforce what the authorities call “Project Beauty” — beauty, in this case, being an exposed face. A large billboard close to the main mosque carries pictures of women wearing headscarves that pass muster, and those — covering the face or even just the neck — which are banned.

Anyone caught breaking the rules faces the daunting prospect of “regular and irregular inspections,” “educational lectures” and having party cadres assigned as “buddies” to prevent backsliding, the billboard announced. In the city of Karamay, women wearing veils and men with long beards have been banned from public buses.

Terrorism — in the sense of attacks on civilians — is a new phenomenon in Xinjiang, but the unrest here has a much longer history, with many Uighurs chafing under Chinese repression since the Communist Party takeover of the country in 1949, and resentful of the subsequent flood of immigrants from China’s majority Han community into the region.

What has changed is the growth in conservative Islam, and the increasing desperation of Uighurs determined to resist Chinese rule.

Until a decade or two ago, Xinjiang’s Uighurs wore their religion lightly, known more for their singing, dancing and drinking than their observation of the pieties of their faith. But in the past two decades a stricter form of the religion has slowly gained a foothold, as China opened up to the outside world.

While worship was allowed at officially sanctioned — and closely supervised — mosques, a network of underground mosques sprang up. Village elders returning from the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, brought back more conservative ideas; high levels of unemployment among Uighur youth, and widespread discrimination against them, left many searching for new ideas and new directions in life. The rise of Islam was, in part, a reaction against social inequality and modernity.

But Joanne Smith Finley of Britain’s Newcastle University, an expert on Uighur identities and Islam, says religion has become a “symbolic form of resistance” to Chinese rule in a region where other resistance is impossible.

When hopes for independence were cruelly dashed by mass executions and arrests in the city of Ghulja — or Yining in Chinese — in 1997, Uighurs had nowhere else to turn, she said.

“People lost faith in the dream of independence,” she said, “and started looking to Islam instead.”

Not every Uighur in Xinjiang is happy with the rising tide of conservatism: one academic lamented the dramatic decline in Uighur establishments serving alcohol in the city of Hotan, while insisting that many young girls wear veils only out of compulsion.

But China’s clumsy attempts to “liberate” Uighurs from the oppression of conservative Islam are only driving more people into the hands of the fundamentalists, experts say.

“If the government continues to exaggerate extremism in this way, and take inappropriate measures to fix it, it will only force people towards extremism” a prominent Uighur scholar, Ilham Tohti, wrote, before being jailed in January on a charge of inciting separatism.



_Xu Yangjingjing contributed to this report._
China's war on terror becomes all-out attack on Islam in Xinjiang - The Washington Post

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## skynet



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## Lord ZeN

See ... Pakistanis won't say anything about these grave attacks on their muslim brothers in Xinjiang .

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## sherin616

Where is Pakistani s muslim brothers who loud mouth about indias atrocities in kashmir and blaa blwaa blaAaaaaaaaa

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## SirHatesALot

sherin616 said:


> Where is Pakistani s muslim brothers who loud mouth about indias atrocities in kashmir and blaa blwaa blaAaaaaaaaa


Higher than mountain friend can do no wrong

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## Edison Chen

BS

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## Reashot Xigwin

Who runs the country's security exactly? A bunch of buffoons no doubt.


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## utraash

Its their country let them handle in their own style ........

Its their country let them handle in their own style ........


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## sherin616

Can some one tag our Pakistani brothers


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## sree45

Their country, their rules.


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## Reashot Xigwin

utraash said:


> Its their country let them handle in their own style ........
> 
> Its their country let them handle in their own style ........



When you see something stupid,

You tell everyone its stupid. 

Much better mantra than the usual see nor hear no evil BS that many here uses. 

There are hundreds of ways the Chinese government can uses that is less "idiotic" than this.


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## Jf Thunder

if true then i register my protest, and if false, then whoever made this up should die


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## Jf Thunder

Imposter said:


> your protest is irrelevant and it doesn't count.


i protested to the Chinese and not you, so your whole post is irrelevant and does not count



Etilla said:


> Excellent China should crush the moslems


@Horus


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## Max Pain

Imposter said:


> again it's irrelevant and it doesn't count, only organizations like ISIS and al qaeda can give befitting reply to china.



oh really? please shed some light on you came up with that conclusion.
im sure we all want to know it.


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## Jf Thunder

Imposter said:


> again it's irrelevant and it doesn't count, only organizations like ISIS and al qaeda can give befitting reply to china.


i am not giving a befittitng reply, i am just saying that they should clarify this position weather it is true or not


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## Max Pain

Lord Aizen said:


> See ... Pakistanis won't say anything about these grave attacks on their muslim brothers in Xinjiang .



they've been silent regarding the Tibet Issue, it shouldn't be a surprise now.
the more pressing concern for Pakistan should be the safety of muslim brothers within Pakistan Instead China.
China has their own way of dealing with people who were responsible for the deaths of 43 civilians recently.I dont think anything's gonna change even If Pakistan or any other country did protest.


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## cirr

Now the West is doing its level best to drive a wedge between China and the Muslim world。

Western propaganda machines at work again。

PS China is recreating and revisiting the Silk Road to connect herself with the Muslim world.

China and the Muslim world unite!

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## Jf Thunder

Imposter said:


> even if it's true you can't do anything and why should they clarify this to you??


cuz we are friends?


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## Max Pain

sherin616 said:


> Where is Pakistani s muslim brothers who loud mouth about *indias atrocities in kashmir* and blaa blwaa blaAaaaaaaaa



its not like those atrocities didnt happen, but yes they should as muslims also protest against the Chinese.then again Pakistan aint the only muslim country who's silent regarding this matter.


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## The Huskar

Only 2 Pakistani posters in the whole thread,huh.Now that is a classic case of psychological condition commonly known as Selective Blindness

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## Max Pain

The Huskar said:


> Only 2 Pakistani posters in the whole thread,huh.Now that is a classic case of psychological condition commonly known as Selective Blindness



I was thinking the same but then again this aint the only thread that is infested by Indian, PDF is now increasingly infested by Indians.Ive seen many threads where Indians usually outnumber us.



Imposter said:


> and what about 50,000 muslims died in pakistan in last 10 years?? have you clarified this to your chinese counterparts??
> 
> and they aren't the real one.



im as real as it gets.
as far as your first reply is concerned, it may be the reason why we cant protest against the chinese treatment of those muslims as our own hands are dirty with the blood of many muslims during clashes with the Taliban, but look at the bright side, the talibs have been getting a nice whooping and and TTP punjab has basically surrendered and you mustve also noted the remarkable decrease in the terrorist attacks in Pakistan and the ones that did happen mostly failed miserably.


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## The Huskar

Max Pain said:


> I was thinking the same but then again this aint the only thread that is infested by Indian, PDF is now increasingly infested by Indians.Ive seen many threads where Indians usually outnumber us.im as real as it gets.
> as far as your first reply is concerned, it may be the reason why we cant protest against the chinese treatment of those muslims as our own hands are dirty with the blood of many muslims during clashes with the Taliban, but look at the bright side, the talibs have been getting a nice whooping and and TTP punjab has basically surrendered and you mustve also noted the remarkable decrease in the terrorist attacks in Pakistan and the ones that did happen mostly failed miserably.


Infested.such a nasty word.we would prefer the term strategically located.
Didn't you know Indians are everywhere.We plan to conquer my sheer population growth.


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## Jf Thunder

cirr said:


> Now the West is doing its level best to drive a wedge between China and the Muslim world。
> 
> Western propaganda machines at work again。
> 
> PS China is recreating and revisiting the Silk Road to connect herself with the Muslim world.
> 
> China and the Muslim world unite!


I LOVE U FOR THIS STATEMENT, (not literally)


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## Max Pain

The Huskar said:


> Infested.such a nasty word.we would prefer the term strategically located.
> Didn't you know Indians are everywhere.We plan to conquer my sheer population growth.



true, it might be harsh but thats what we all witness nowadays. even look at our websites and facebook pages. there are a hell lotta Indians commenting there as well so you can say that you have infested even our pages with your huge population.think of Dawn for instant, its one of the oldest Pakistani News Agency and often you'll see more Indian comments there. I only visit one Indian page that's called "the logical Indian" but you guys never spared a single page of ours.and most comments are those same old typical Indian comments.it seems a hell lotta indians have internet connections and are bored by their own pages,
and yeah youre right you guys sure are conquering internet with your massive population. "The cyber conquerors"


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## Jf Thunder

Imposter said:


> anything that satisfies you??


dude, did i even talk to you?


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## Max Pain

Imposter said:


> anything that satisfies you??



u pissed brah?


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## Jf Thunder

Imposter said:


> and what about 50,000 muslims died in pakistan in last 10 years?? have you clarified this to your chinese counterparts??


are the killed people, even remotely related to China?


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## dray

cirr said:


> Now the West is doing its level best to drive a wedge between China and the Muslim world。
> 
> Western propaganda machines at work again。
> 
> PS China is recreating and revisiting the Silk Road to connect herself with the Muslim world.
> 
> China and the Muslim world unite!




In Bengali we have a saying; "*Khal kete kumir ana*", want to know the meaning of it?

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## cnleio

Maybe China exported DF-21 IRBMs to Saudi Arabia, is just to get supports from Saudi and Chinese prepare to finish extremism Islam in China XInJiang.


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## The Huskar

Max Pain said:


> true, it might be harsh but thats what we all witness nowadays. even look at our websites and facebook pages. there are a hell lotta Indians commenting there as well so you can say that you have infested even our pages with your huge population.think of Dawn for instant, its one of the oldest Pakistani News Agency and often you'll see more Indian comments there. I only visit one Indian page that's called "the logical Indian" but you guys never spared a single page of ours.and most comments are those same old typical Indian comments.it seems a hell lotta indians have internet connections and are bored by their own pages,
> and yeah youre right you guys sure are conquering internet with your massive population. "The cyber conquerors"


We Indians are awesome that way.If ever a cyber war happens,India and China will be two key players due to its massive hackers potential


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## bitter_but_better

DRAY said:


> In Bengali we have a saying; "*Khal kete kumir ana*", want to know the meaning of it?


sure bro tell d meaning


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## Max Pain

The Huskar said:


> We Indians are awesome that way.If ever a cyber war happens,India and China will be two key players due to its massive hackers potential



as far as awesomeness is concerned I wont say anything apart from "I disagree" and that shouldn't be a surprise for you 
and personally I think if cyber war ever happened, Indians might be a step ahead from chinese



Imposter said:


> they died because of extremism so yes
> 
> 
> yeah i am pissed with moderate muslims like you.



good let the butthurt flow 
ask someone to slap you, get more pissed.
I couldn't care any less.


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## Jf Thunder

Imposter said:


> they died because of extremism so yes


i will choose to ignore u now


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## Whiskey

pakistan needs China more than China needs pakistan, if deeper and sweeter friend talks anything about internal matter of China then they will be kicked in the butt by elder brother.

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## Sugarcane

Yanks should be the last to say something like that.


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## tranquilium

Right...did Washington post realize that Xinjiang has a population of 22 million, about 2/3 of the population of Canada? If a few houses are searched because of tip-offs, it isn't equivalent to "all-out war on conservative Islam". Because I am pretty sure LAPD hand out a lot more search warrants than Chinese police by a long shot.

And I am also sorry for the terrible "crime" of "eat instead of fasting, and work or attend classes". Let's forget a moment how exact you are supposed to force someone to eat on a massive scale, the bar for fear and repression must be awfully low if these are considered all-out war. You know, they should instead consider things like "outright invasion of another country" or "train and arm known terrorists".

Let's also look at the "have corrupted the people of Xinjiang" part. Did Washington Post believe Chinese people and government to be retarded? Any sane government is not going to alienate a huge portion of the country by making a statement like that, but I guess it is okay for Washington post to say so, since they have zero care on Chinese and frankly, only making the story to sell to Americans.

BTW, most of these terrorist organization has links to USA and co. Some are funded and some of them are trained outright by CIA. If Washington Post is so concerned about the wellfare of people in Xinjiang, they should have a long hard look at what their country is producing and releasing into the world.

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## waz

Oh look, another Uighur thread made by, you guessed it an Indian poster. What happens next, several Indian trolls, new members mostly, pour on the bile against Pakistan, which again has nothing to do with us, but it is lost on them. Hey any opportunity to bring Pakistan in shouldn't go a miss, after all the obsession is strong with such folk.

Firstly how is it an attack on Islam, when the Muslim Hui people are perhaps the most successful minority in the whole country. A minority that has held high positions in the government and the army. A people who also helped put down the Uighur uprisings. So Muslims were attacking Islam as well? . It's an ethnic/nationalistic struggle, nothing to do with faith.

Why should we even comment? Do you know how many Uighur men have been caught and killed fighting with the Pakistani Taliban? Many have! Yet we are supposed to charge to the rescue at any mere mention of the Uighur people.

Pakistanis forum members have said in the past on many threads that we ask our Chinese friends to tackle the issue delicately, which I'm sure they will do. Minorities are exempt from many laws that ethnic Han have to adhere for example.

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## Snomannen

Time to face some facts: 

===========
by @Wholegrain

The same accusation that Han people are demographically swamping Uyghurs has been repeated around over 1,000 times already and is widespread in the western and other media hostile to China (India etc.)

Xinjiang is made out of two distinct regions which were not culturally or politically linked until China put them together in one province. They are Dzungharia (mostly Ili) and the Tarim Basin. Dzungharia is steppe and was traditionally home to nomads and nomadic empires. The Tarim Basin is made out of Oases and home to sedentary people.

Han Chinese have almost entirely migrated to Dzungharia and not the Tarim Basin. Nearly the entire Han population in Xinjiang lives in Dzungharia. The Uyghurs are not natives to Dzungharia but immigrants from the Tarim so both Han and Uyghurs in Dzungharia are immigrants.

The Uyghurs are native to the Tarim Basin, which is in southern Xinjiang only. It is the former territory of the Chagatai Khanate. The Uyghurs were sedentary Turkic speaking farmers in the Oaseses of the Tarim. Before the Soviets gave them the name "Uyghur" in 1921 they were not known as Uyghurs but as Turkis in the west. They called themselves Sart, which meant a sedentary Turkic speaking Muslim, or by the Oases they came from. If they came from Turpan they would be Turpanlk. Their language was called Eastern Turki or Chagatai. The Tarim Basin was also known as Moghulistan (Mongol land) since the Chagatais were descendants of Genghis Khan.

Dzungharia is in northern Xinjiang. It was home to the Dzunghar Oirat Mongols who were a nomadic, Lamaist Buddhist people. Their state was the Zunghar Khanate. The name of Xinjiang's capital Urumqi is from the Dzunghar, not the Uyghur language.

In the Chagatai Khanate, the Chagataid Khan and princes were the secular rulers. The religious leaders were the Sayyid Naqshbandi Khojas. There were two factions of Khojas, the Qarataghliks and Aqtaghliks. The Qarataghliks and the Chagatai Khan expelled the Aqtaghliks from power. The Aqtaghliks sought aid from the Buddhist Zunghar Khanate, which then attacked the Chagatai Khanate, installed the Aqtaghliks as puppets and forced the turkic population into submission and paying tribute.

The Chagataid Turks and Qarataghlik Khojas then turned to China for aid. China and the Turkic muslims (Uyghur ancestors) launched a massive campaign the Dzunghars in 1758-1759 and nearly exterminated the entire Zunghar population. Only tens of thousands are still left in Xinjiang.

The Zunghar Khanate was then absorbed into China, and the Chagatai prince, the Qarataghlik Khojas and the Turkic Khans and Begs then submitted to Chinese rule and the Tarim Basin also became part of China. The Aqtaghlik Khojas were bitter about their loss and tried to forment rebellion but were defeated.

China then settled in the place of the decimated Dzunghar population, thousands of Han, Hui, Manchus, Xibo, and Turkic Muslims from the Tarim Basin (uyghurs ancestors). Those turkic muslims became known as the Taranchi and the Uyghurs in modern Dzungharia are their descendants. Very few Han migrated into the Uyghurs native Tarim basin.

Urumqi was originally a Han and Hui (Tungan) city with few Uyghurs. Its the Uyghurs who are the immigrants.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

Foreign tourists in Urumchi today sometimes complain that the city is "too Chinese" in comparison with the Central Asian atmosphere of southern Xinjiang; many believe Urumchi's East Turkestani culture has been erased by Han immigration and architecture. *In fact, the Uyghur population and culture in the city today is a relatively recent feature, for Urumchi in its first decades in most respects resembled a north Chinese town, populated primarily by Tungans from Gansu and Shaanxi and Han from many Chinese provinces, in addition to the bannermen*.
The Qing administed the Dzungharia and the Tarim basin as separate regions. The north (dzungharia) used to be called &#22825;&#23665;&#21271;&#36335; tianshan beilu and the south (Tarim Basin) was &#22825;&#23665;&#21335;&#36335; tianshan nanlu. 

Those two distinct areas, Dzungharia (tianshan beilu) and Tarim Basin (tianshan nanlu) were combined to form Xinjiang province in 1884 by the Chinese government. Ever since then its been regarded as a single province,

This is an old book from 200 years ago. Soungaria is Dzungharia and Turkestan refers to the Tarim Basin only

China ; Political, Commercial, and Social: In an Official Report to Her ... - Robert Montgomery Martin - Google Books

The government of Soungaria and Turkestan is of three kinds: 1st. In the easternmost districts of Soungaria, Barkoul, and Orountchi, it is much the same as China, and these districts have been incorporated with the province of Kansuh; 2nd. In the western districts around Ele, where the Chinese convicts are sent, it is strictly military, being occupied by Mantchou troops, who are considered as inhabitants of the soil; they are commanded by a general and subordinate officers, whose authority extends to the eastern districts, and to Turkestan; in Turkestan, the government is left in the hands of the native nobles, who are Begs of different degrees of rank, under the control of Chinese residents at the principal cities.
More...

The book of the world - Richard Swainson Fisher - Google Books

That part of the empire called Hi is a vast region, lying on each side of the Tien-shan, or Celestial Mountains, and including a tract nearly as large as Mongolia, and not much more susceptible of cultivation. The limits extend from 36° to 49° N , and from longitude 71° to 96° E. It is divided by the Tien-shan into two parts called " lu," or circuits, viz.: Tien-shanpeh-lu and Tien-shan-nan-lu, or north and south of the Celestial Mountains. The former is commonly denominated Songaria, from the Songares its former rulers, and the latter is known as Little Bokara, or Eastern Turkestan. Hi, taken as a whole, may be regarded as an inland isthmus, extending south-west from the south of Siberia, off between the Gobi and Caspian deserts, till it reaches the Hindoo-Kush, leading down to the valley of the Indus. The former of these deserts encloses it on the east and south, and the other on the west and north-west, separated from each other by the Belur-tag and the Muz-tag ranges, which join with the Celestial Mountains that divide the isthmus itself into two parts. These deserts united are equal to the extent of Sahara, but are not as arid and tenantless. Little is known of the topography, productions, or civilization of the tribes, but the efforts of the Chinese have been systematically directed to developing the agricultural resources of the country, by stationing troops in every part, who cultivate the soil, and by banishing criminals thereto, who are obliged to work for, and assist the soldiers. The productions are numerous. Wheat, barley, rice, and millet are the chief grains; tobacco, cotton, and fruits are grown; herds of horses, camels, cattle and sheep, afford means of locomotion and food for the people, while the mountains and lakes supply game and fish. The inhabitants are composed mostly of Eleuths, Mongols, Manchus, Chinese, and several native tribes. The government is under the control of the Manchu military officers residing at Hi.

Tien-shan-peh-lu is divided into three commandaries. Hi on the west, Tarbagatai on the north, and Kur-kara-usu on the east, between Hi and Oroumtsi, in Kansuh. The districts of Tarbagatai and Kur-kara-usu are small compared with Hi.

Tien-shan-nan-lu, or southern circuit of Hi, also named Sin-kiang or new frontier, has been called Little Bokhara and Chinese or Eastern Turkestan, by foreigners. It is less fertile than the Northern Circuit, the greatest part of iis area being rugged mountains and barren wastes. The Tarim flows through it from west to east, from the Belur-tag to Lop-nor, a lake lying on the edge ot the desert. No other river basins of any size are found within the circuit. The climate is exceedingly dry, and its barrenness is owing more to the want of moisture than to the nature of the soil. The productions of the valley of Tarim comprise most of the grains and fruits of Southern Europe. The mountains and marshes contains jackals, tigers, bears, wolves, &c. Gold, copper, and iron, are brought from this region ; but as articles of trade they are less important than the sal-ammoniac, saltpetre, sulphur, and asbestos, obtained in the volcanic region on the east of the Celestial mountains. The present divisions of this circuit are regulated by the position of the "eight Mahomedan cities," viz: Harashar, Kuche, Ushi, (including Sairim and Bai,) Oksu, Khoten, Yarkand, Cashgar, and Yingeshar. The superior officers reside at Yarkand, but the southern circuit is divided into four minor governments at Harashar, Ushi, Yarkand, and Khoten.

The government of Hi differs in some respects from that of Mongolia, where religion is partly called in to aid the state. In the northern circuit the authority is strictly military. The supreme command of the whole of Hi is entrusted by the colonial office to a Manchu, "tsiang-kiun," or military governor-general, resident at Kuldsha, who has under him two councillors to take cognizance of civil cases, and 31 residents scattered about in both circuits. The governor also commands the troops of Kansuh, but has nothing to do with the civil jurisdiction. The revenue is derived from a capitation tax and tithes on produce. There are no transit duties as in China, but custom-houses are established at the frontier trading ports. The character of the inhabitants north of the Tien-shan is rendered unlike that of those dwelling in the southern circuit by the diversity in their language and nomadic habits, more than by the sway religious rites and allegiance have over them. The language generally used in the south is the Jaghatai Turki of the Kalmucks. The Usbecks constitute the majority of the people, but Eleuths and Kalmucks are everywhere intermixed. The Tibetans have settled in Khoten, or more probably remnants still exist there of the former inhabitants.
Click to expand...
Here are souces on how the Qing dynasty colonized Dzungharia with BOTH Han and Taranchis (Uyghur ancestors) from Tarim oases like Aksu and other peoples like Manchus, Xibe and others. Both Han and Uyghurs are not native and are immigrants.

Beyond the Pass: Economy, Ethnicity, and Empire in Qing Central Asia, 1759-1864 - James A. Millward - Google Books

China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia - Peter C Perdue - Google Books

State Capitalism, Contentious Politics and Large-Scale Social Change - Google Books

Now in modern times since 1950, China has directed most Han immigration into Dzungharia (and alot of development as well). The majority of Han in Xinjiang a NOT on Uyghur native land and both Han and Uyghurs in Dzungharia are immigrants. The Dzunghars are the natives and they are almost extinct. The Uyghurs are the majority in their native tarim basin.

Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At the start of the 19th century, 40 years after the Qing reconquest, there were around 155,000 Han and Hui Chinese in northern Xinjiang and somewhat more than twice that number of Uyghurs in southern Xinjiang.[79] A census of the time tabulated ethnic shares of the population as 60% Turkic and 30% Han.[80] Before 1831 only a few hundred Chinese merchants lived in southern Xinjiang oases (Tarim Basin), and only a few Uyghurs lived in northern Xinjiang (Dzungaria).[81] After 1831 the Qing permitted and encouraged Han Chinese migration into the Tarim basin in southern Xinjiang, although with very little success, and stationed permanent troops on the land there as well.[82] Political killings and expulsions of non Uyghur populations in the uprisings of the 1860s[82] and 1930s saw them experience a sharp decline as a percentage of the total population[83] though they rose once again in the periods of stability following 1880 (which saw Xinjiang increase its population from 1.2 million)[84][85] and 1949. From a low of 7% in 1953, the Han began to return to Xinjiang between then and 1964, where they comprised 33% of the population (54% Uyghur), similarly to Qing times. A decade later, at the beginning of the Chinese economic reform in 1978, the demographic balance was 46% Uyghur and 40% Han;[80] this has not changed drastically until the last census in 2000, with the Uyghur population reduced to 42%.[86] Military personnel are not counted and national minorities are undercounted in the Chinese census, as in most censuses.[87] While some of the shift has be attributed to an increased Han presence,[88] Uyghurs have also emigrated to other parts of China, where their numbers have increased steadily. Uyghur independence activists express concern over the Han population changing the Uyghur character of the region,* though the Han and Hui Chinese mostly live in northern Xinjiang Dzungaria, and are separated from areas of historical Uyghur dominance south of the Tian Shan mountains (southwestern Xinjiang), where Uyghurs account for about 90% of the population.[89]*

In general, Uyghurs are the majority in southwestern Xinjiang, including the prefectures of Kashgar, Khotan, Kizilsu, and Aksu (about 80% of Xinjiang's Uyghurs live in those four prefectures), as well as Turpan prefecture in eastern Xinjiang. Han are the majority in eastern and northern Xinjiang (Dzungaria), including the cities of Urumqi, Karamay, Shihezi and the prefectures of Changjyi, Bortala, Bayin'gholin, Ili (especially the cities of Kuitun), and Kumul. Kazakhs are mostly concentrated in Ili prefecture in northern Xinjiang. Kazakhs are the majority in the northernmost part of Xinjiang.
Click to expand...
Red is Dzungharia and Blue is the Tarim Basin.





Dzungar Khanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dzungaria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tarim Basin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dzungar people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Chagatai Khanate




Here are maps on qing Xinjiang which was divided into Tianshan beilu (dzungharia) and tianshan nanlu (tarim basin, also called eastern turkestan)










Before the Qing dynasty conquered the Ming dynasty, Dzungharia was part of the Zunghar Oirat Khanate and Tarim was part of the Chagatai Khanate





Source: Rumors killer -- Spreading lies is bad, mmkay? | Page 4

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## donkeypunch

China....an oppressor ? Naaaah !!!

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## Snomannen

[Almost all of the social discontent (in Tibet) will "transformed" into political discontent.Tibet's "elites (formed by both Han and Tibetan)" often take advantage of the unstable political situation to ask for large sum of money, various benefits and social security from Beijing.]

-- 王力雄 

Just replace "Tibet" with "Xinjiang" and "elites" with "some medias and some members here".


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## Globenim

Lol.

U.S.A carpet bombs millions muslims into stoneage and chaos , overthrows one stable nation after another, protects aggressive and destablizing rogue regimes in the ME and creates and arms one terror organization after another and its all for peace and democracy. If China deals with extremists and fundamentalist by civilian and civilized means to protect people its opression and controversial.

Washington Times. Nothing but regime controlled propaganda.

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## sherin616

Max Pain said:


> its not like those atrocities didnt happen, but yes they should as muslims also protest against the Chinese.then again Pakistan aint the only muslim country who's silent regarding this matter.


When they dont show the same energy against china



SirHatesALot said:


> Higher than mountain friend can do no wrong


So relegion come frist when some one needs it to come frist


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## TheTruth

Jf Thunder said:


> if true then i register my protest, and if false, then whoever made this up should die



Chinese Muslims are permitted to worship in whichever way they wish. Uyghur terrorists are not.

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## tonyget

Lord Aizen said:


> See ... Pakistanis won't say anything about these grave attacks on their muslim brothers in Xinjiang .




According to your logic, Pakistanis should protest to the West for bombing their ISIS muslim brothers



bitter_but_better said:


> Its true. The chinese are killing uyghur muslims from very long time
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but what can **** do here?
> just like drones killing pakis.. And **** govt can't do anything..



Why should Pakistanis support terrorist ?

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## Jf Thunder

TheTruth said:


> Chinese Muslims are permitted to worship in whichever way they wish. Uyghur terrorists are not.


hmm, i think fair enough


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## Whiskey

Jf Thunder said:


> I LOVE U FOR THIS STATEMENT, (not literally)



U DONT HAVE A CHOICE ANYWAYS!

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## TheTruth

Jf Thunder said:


> hmm, i think fair enough



Essentially it's just not allowing Uyghur terrorists to organize in any way. Chinese Muslims have been free to worship for centuries and even spread Islam to parts of Southeast Asia.


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## Whiskey

tonyget said:


> According to your logic, Pakistanis should protest to the West for bombing their ISIS muslim brothers
> 
> 
> 
> Why should **** support terrorist ?




if Uighurs are terrorist for you then mofos who throw stones during relief and rescue efforts are terrorists according to us.

Look at his statement @atawolf @Neptune turkish members?


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## bitter_but_better

tonyget said:


> Why should **** support terrorist ?


buddy perhaps u dont know their history.


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## Jf Thunder

TheTruth said:


> Essentially it's just not allowing Uyghur terrorists to organize in any way. Chinese Muslims have been free to worship for centuries and even spread Islam to parts of Southeast Asia.


but these Uyghur Muslims, they cant all be terrorists, right?


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## tonyget

Whiskey said:


> if Uighurs are terrorist for you then mofos who throw stones during relief and rescue efforts are terrorists according to us.




How did some Uighurs end up in Guantanamo bay ?

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## Snomannen

Whiskey said:


> if Uighurs are terrorist for you then mofos who throw stones during relief and rescue efforts are terrorists according to us.
> 
> Look at his statement @atawolf @Neptune turkish members?



*Uighurs *are not terrorists, *Uighur terrorists* are.
Every time the CCP reports the terrorist attack committed by 'Separatist From XinJiang' (新疆分裂份子), you people always _kindly_ translate that term into 'Uighurs'.

YOU people are those who has been insulting Uighur people all the time. Have some shame please.

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## Whiskey

tonyget said:


> How did some Uighurs end up in Guantanamo bay ?


 that's news to me.


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## ChineseTiger1986

tonyget said:


> Why should **** support terrorist ?



Please don't use the word "****", it is a verbal slang.

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## tonyget

Whiskey said:


> that's news to me.




Uyghur detainees at Guantanamo Bay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Whiskey

KirovAirship said:


> *Uighurs *are not terrorists, *Uighur terrorists* are.
> Every time the CCP reports the terrorist attack committed by 'Separatist From XinJiang' (新疆分裂份子), you people always _kindly_ translate that term into 'Uighurs'.
> 
> YOU people are those who has been insulting Uighur people all the time. Have some shame please.



I don't care about Uighurs, China is free to do whatever it wishes within its territory, if Uighurs demand separation like kashmiris they should be castrated and shown them their place. And and and I never called them terrorist it was ur higher deeper faster taller friend from pakistan said it, I just quoted him to show their hypocrisy. Go read what he wrote. Thanks in advance .....


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## ChineseTiger1986

KirovAirship said:


> *Uighurs *are not terrorists, *Uighur terrorists* are.
> Every time the CCP reports the terrorist attack committed by 'Separatist From XinJiang' (新疆分裂份子), you people always _kindly_ translate that term into 'Uighurs'.
> 
> YOU people are those who has been insulting Uighur people all the time. Have some shame please.



First sponsoring the terrorists in Xinjiang, then demonizing China's anti-terrorist campaign into an anti-Muslim one.

Great strategy and propaganda.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China knows best for its regional security Indians should mind their own business

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## Snomannen

Whiskey said:


> I don't care about Uighurs, China is free to do whatever it wishes within its territory, if Uighurs demand separation like kashmiris they should be castrated and shown them their place. And and and I never called them terrorist it was ur higher deeper faster taller friend from pakistan said it, I just quoted him to show their hypocrisy. Go read what he wrote. Thanks in advance .....



He did not. 
And I suggest some people better not to act like those with the so-called "World Uyghur Congress"*.*


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## C130

I'm surprised Al-Qaeda hasn't announced a branch in East Turkmenistan.


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## Whiskey

KirovAirship said:


> He did not.




then what made you think I was calling them terrorists? are u trying to read between the lines?


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## tonyget

C130 said:


> I'm surprised Al-Qaeda hasn't announced a branch in East Turkmenistan.



Some of the Uighur separatist leaders were killed by American drones

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## Snomannen

Whiskey said:


> then what made you think I was calling them terrorists? are u trying to read between the lines?


"Uighur terrorists are terrorists." 
"How dare you say that Uighur are terrorists @#$%&$!!!? ." 
"Dafuq?"


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## C130

tonyget said:


> Some of the Uighur separatist leaders were killed by American drones



good.


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## halupridol

sherin616 said:


> So relegion come frist when some one needs it to come frist


  no doubt about it



sherin616 said:


> So relegion come frist when some one needs it to come frist


  no doubt about it


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## Bobby

Baap badaa na bhayya.....the whole thing is that ....ki sabase badaa rupaiya...

In english.......Money power is bigger than God Power

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## mujhaidind

China is lucky since Ugyr are peaceful people. If they become mujhaideen then China can't do shit about it. They will have to let go of that territory.

They shouldn't forget that Ughyr aren't racially han chinese. They are more physically stronger and tougher than an average Chinese.


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## northeast

mujhaidind said:


> China is lucky since Ugyr are peaceful people. If they become mujhaideen then China can't do shit about it. They will have to let go of that territory.
> 
> They shouldn't forget that Ughyr aren't racially han chinese. They are more physically stronger and tougher than an average Chinese.


Uyghurs are stronger and tougher than chinese？And turks are peaceful peoples？what the fack？There are researches shows Uyghurs are physically weaker than hans living in Xinjiang because they are relatively poor，but that's not the problem.The problem is what they are thinking.

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## Obambam

C130 said:


> I'm surprised Al-Qaeda hasn't announced a branch in East Turkmenistan.



Because it is a lot harder for the CIA to arm and train extremists in China than it is in the middle east?

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## Kaniska

Religion is always used as political too by the powerful nations....China is a powerful nation...So Islamic world does not have much choice rather than to be silent...Because it is also very easy for them to sacrifice any issues realted to religion when it suits to them...If Islamic world would have been so serious about well being of fellow Islamic citizen, then middle east would not have been in such a mess as it is now...


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## C130

Obambam said:


> Because it is a lot harder for the CIA to arm and train extremists in China than it is in the middle east?



don't you know we train them in Pakistan 
but if some third rate terrorists can cause so much terror with swords and improvise explosives god forbide the U.S starts giving them the good shit.


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## Obambam

C130 said:


> don't you know we train them in Pakistan
> but if some third rate terrorists can cause so much terror with swords and improvise explosives god forbide the U.S starts giving them the good shit.



But first, those "good shit" must find a way into China. We have more than three times your population, swords alone won't do lol.

Clearly that's the issue here, CIA is finding it hard to get them in "en-mass". I am surprise these terrorists are everywhere around the world except in America where buying guns and ammunition is as easy as shopping around in a nearby grocery.

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## C130

Obambam said:


> But first, those "good shit" must find a way into China. We have more than three times your population, swords alone won't do lol.
> 
> Clearly that's the issue here, CIA is finding it hard to get them in "en-mass". I am surprise these terrorists are everywhere around the world except in America where buying guns and ammunition is as easy as shopping around in a nearby grocery.



some AKs,grenades, and SEMTEX is the good shit mate.
if we are training and arming the Uighurs don't think we would be training them attack with ceremonial swords.

terror is terror no matter how large or small the population


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## Obambam

C130 said:


> some AKs,grenades, and SEMTEX is the good shit mate.
> if we are training and arming the Uighurs don't think we would be training them attack with ceremonial swords.
> 
> terror is terror no matter how large or small the population



The thing is, the CIA aren't giving them the tools they need to adequately perform their tasks.
It might work against third world countries, but against China? Don't think so mate.

Unlike in America where practically every households has a gun. Try imaging every house of every street is a gun in a locker. How many guns can terrorists get their hands on to if they really put their hearts and heads into it? Yet they have to do things the hard way. Pick a fight with a knife against guys that are armed with assault rifles. Clearly something wrong with logics and ideology there.

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## Whiskey

KirovAirship said:


> "Uighur terrorists are terrorists."
> "How dare you say that Uighur are terrorists @#$%&$!!!? ."
> "Dafuq?"



Not all muslims are terrorists but majority of terrorists are muslims. is that ok now ?

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## TheTruth

Jf Thunder said:


> but these Uyghur Muslims, they cant all be terrorists, right?



They're also expansionists who have committed or aided in the commission of genocide of Hui Muslims and other Turks. They are just taking up space that belongs to someone else, I'd say.

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## C130

Obambam said:


> The thing is, the CIA aren't giving them the tools they need to adequately perform their tasks.
> It might work against third world countries, but against China? Don't think so mate.
> 
> Unlike in America where practically every households has a gun. Try imaging every house of every street is a gun in a locker. How many guns can terrorists get their hands on to if they really put their hearts and heads into it? Yet they have to do things the hard way. Pick a fight with a knife against guys that are armed with assault rifles. Clearly something wrong with logics and ideology there.



if we wanted to get a few dozen AKs into China we could.
point is we aren't training or arming them, yet.

and why do you keep bringing up U.S gun ownership? I don't see the relevance.


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## The Unnamed

Well, they get pakistanis to kill muslims on their behalf too..

pakistan has the blood of uighyurs and uzbecks on it's hands..one for personal reasons. one for China.

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## Okemos

I am very skeptical of this whole report and its inclination. The report said foreign reporters were detained and blocked from entering the area. Then on what information was this reported based upon? A couple of brave residents as the reported said? lol Also Radio Free Asia isn't really credible source of objective news. 

What a waste of my precious 2 min to read this report, lol.

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## Luffy 500

Our Uighur brothers and sisters are suffering inhuman oppression and repression under the occupation of these communist monkeys. May Allah (swt) free them from their oppression and strengthen their iman ,ameen.

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## Jlaw

Okemos said:


> I am very skeptical of this whole report and its inclination. The report said foreign reporters were detained and blocked from entering the area. Then on what information was this reported based upon? A couple of brave residents as the reported said? lol Also Radio Free Asia isn't really credible source of objective news.
> 
> What a waste of my precious 2 min to read this report, lol.


western magic.



Luffy 500 said:


> Our Uighur brothers and sisters are suffering inhuman oppression and repression under the occupation of these communist monkeys. May Allah (swt) free them from their oppression and strengthen their iman ,ameen.


may bangladesh let them in.

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## dlclong

2014.9.21, Xinjiang Bayingolin Prefecture-- Luntai city a shop doorway, YangXia Town, Tekkbazaar Town
Various exploded, killing two people and some people Injured.
The case is under further investigation.

These bastards , not to only engage in their own land, and want to go others home to sabotage


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## Kolaps

^
Why there more explosion and street attack in China than in Europe and US?

Dumb or Lazy?


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## NiceGuy

dlclong said:


> These bastards , not to only engage in their own land, and want to go others home to sabotage


Ur Govt. need to spend more money to have more police in Xinjiang instead of wasting money in SCS(east sea).

Ur police cant work well when they only receive little fund from the Govt.


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## sms

NiceGuy said:


> Ur Govt. need to spend more money to have more police in Xinjiang instead of wasting money in SCS(east sea).
> 
> Ur police cant work well when they only receive little fund from the Govt.


 
That's called hitting below the belt! 

RIP, Hope administration will find culprits and punish them for their deeds.

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## NiceGuy

sms said:


> That's called hitting below the belt!
> 
> RIP, Hope administration will find culprits and punish them for their deeds.


Hunting for culprits cost lots of money, and bcz the police forces receive little fund, so they never can arrest all bad guys.

So, bombing will continue to happen due to weak police forces.


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## blood

Rest in peace 

i can understand police inaction against peaceful mullahs in india bcz of our secular media and politicians 
but whats stopping chinese from crushing these guys , you have the total authority .


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## Aepsilons

* Blasts in China's Xinjiang kill two; govt censures officials *

SHANGHAI - Two people were killed and several more injured in at least three explosions in China's troubled far western region of Xinjiang on Sunday, state media reported, but gave few details.

The blasts came as China punished 17 regional officials and police "for being accountable" for a July 28 attack by masked militants that led to almost 100 deaths of police, officials and civilians, and for the subsequent killing of a pro-Beijing imam.

The government has blamed a surge in violence over the last year in Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur people, on Islamist militants or separatists, who want an independent state called East Turkestan, it says.

State media say hundreds of people have been killed in the past year's violence, including some police.

Tight security makes it difficult for foreign journalists to visit the area, rendering it almost impossible to reach an independent assessment of the situation.

An explosion in Luntai county, on the northern edge of the Taklamakan desert in central Xinjiang, hit a shop in the county seat, while with two more blasts occurred in nearby townships on Sunday, news website 天山网 - 新疆新闻门户 which is run by the Xinjiang Communist Party committee, said.

The wording of the report suggested there were other explosions but it gave no details.

"At present, all the injured have been sent to hospital for full treatment, local social order is normal, and the cases are being investigated," it said.


Blasts in China's Xinjiang kill two; govt censures officials


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## dlclong

Kolaps said:


> ^
> Why there more explosion and street attack in China than in Europe and US?
> 
> Dumb or Lazy?


沙比，衮尼嘛吧



NiceGuy said:


> Ur Govt. need to spend more money to have more police in Xinjiang instead of wasting money in SCS(east sea).
> 
> Ur police cant work well when they only receive little fund from the Govt.


Do not be so self-righteous, do not always think that u know everything.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

dlclong said:


> 沙比，衮尼嘛吧
> 
> 
> Do not be so self-righteous, do not always think that u know everything.


I guess kolaps is not a 臺巴子。 just a false flag.

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## BoQ77

live peaceful life, and you have more friends, not opposers.


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## Aepsilons

Rest in peace to those who perished.


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## Edison Chen

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> I guess kolaps is not a 臺巴子。 just a false flag.



Yes. He's 100% false flagger. He knows nothing about Taiwan, only keeps calling democracy. But I am sure he is a mainland Chinese, he knows something foreign people may don't know. That's why I always bash him.


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## Kolaps

dlclong said:


> 沙比，衮尼嘛吧
> 
> 
> Do not be so self-righteous, do not always think that u know everything.



Agree if mainland China is so BAD!

Despite Europe and US are the main target of Islamic movement, it's China who get the bigger damage.

Dumb country!


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## terranMarine

Edison Chen said:


> Yes. He's 100% false flagger. He knows nothing about Taiwan, only keeps calling democracy. But I am sure he is a mainland Chinese, he knows something foreign people may don't know. That's why I always bash him.



If he is a Mainland Chinese then wtf is he doing?

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## Kolaps

Edison Chen said:


> Yes. He's 100% false flagger. He knows nothing about Taiwan, only keeps calling democracy. But I am sure he is a mainland Chinese, he knows something foreign people may don't know. That's why I always bash him.



Too many censorship in the mainland!

Is that hard for saying the truth about Taiwan?

If you don't believe it, why don't you just came here and see it?


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## Aepsilons

@Kolaps ,

Would you say that most Taiwanese hold this feeling towards Mainlanders ? I always thought most Taiwanese were fond of Mainlander Chinese as what members such as @TaiShang and the rest posit here. Just curious.


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## Kolaps

terranMarine said:


> If he is a Mainland Chinese then wtf is he doing?



Good logic!



Nihonjin1051 said:


> @Kolaps ,
> 
> Would you say that most Taiwanese hold this feeling towards Mainlanders ? I always thought most Taiwanese were fond of Mainlander Chinese as what members such as @TaiShang and the rest posit here. Just curious.



His grandfather perhaps was KMT soldier who immigrated to Taiwan.

Taiwanese who longing for mainland are usually a bunch people like these.


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## terranMarine

Kolaps said:


> Good logic!


what good logic? i think you are the crazy one bashing your own country , raise your motherland flag moron

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## Edison Chen

terranMarine said:


> If he is a Mainland Chinese then wtf is he doing?



You know there is always a small portion of people in our society who have mental disease like cognitive dissonance, commonly we call them brain damaged. Or maybe he is a true Taiwan DDP dog. I can't be so sure either.

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## terranMarine

terranMarine said:


> what good logic? i think you are the crazy one bashing your own country , raise your motherland flag moron



btw keep bashing him @Edison Chen

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## Aepsilons

Kolaps said:


> His grandfather perhaps was KMT soldier who immigrated to Taiwan.
> Taiwanese who longing for mainland are usually a bunch people like these.



Interesting. It is interesting to note that most of the Taiwanese inhabitants who lived in Taiwan prior to KMT arrival were always pro-Japan. We have about 40,000 Taiwanese residents living in Japan and many of them readily give up Taiwanese nationality for Japanese nationality after naturalization. 

So its very interesting for me to hear anti-Japan sentiments from Taiwanese. Since many who do come to Japan are so very pro-Japan.


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## terranMarine

Edison Chen said:


> You know there is always a small portion of people in our society who have mental disease like cognitive dissonance, commonly we call them brain damaged. Or maybe he is a true Taiwan DDP dog. I can't be so sure either.


I think he must be a descendant of Lee Teng Hui


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## Edison Chen

terranMarine said:


> I think he must be a descendant of Lee Teng Hui



Agreed. Lee Teng Hui's illegitimate child maybe.


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## Aepsilons

Please cease the personal attacks. Keep everything professional, guys.

@Edison Chen and @terranMarine


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## terranMarine

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Please cease the personal attacks. Keep everything professional, guys.
> 
> @Edison Chen and @terranMarine


It's no personal attack, we are just shadow boxing with him

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## Edison Chen

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Please cease the personal attacks. Keep everything professional, guys.
> 
> @Edison Chen and @terranMarine



How could it be personal attack? LOL, we feel curious about @collaps, we are digging out his background.


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## dlclong

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> I guess kolaps is not a 臺巴子。 just a false flag.


I can 100% sure he doesn't come from Taiwan.
I Once asked him Hokkien, but he could not read.
Either he is a mainland Chinese, or he is a Vietnamese.

He is a Vietnamese most likely , don't forget the Vietnamese BoQ77,This guy before the use of other account posing as Taiwanren, was banned after the report.
Most importantly, Both of them are very close manner of speaking.
Recently This guy disappeared, this account may be anotherof his account.



Edison Chen said:


> You know there is always a small portion of people in our society who have mental disease like cognitive dissonance, commonly we call them brain damaged. Or maybe he is a true Taiwan DDP dog. I can't be so sure either.





terranMarine said:


> If he is a Mainland Chinese then wtf is he doing?

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## Aepsilons

dlclong said:


> I can 100% sure he doesn't come from Taiwan.
> I asked him Hokkien, but he could not read.
> Either he is a mainland Chinese, or he is a Vietnamese.
> 
> He is a Vietnamese most likely , don't forget the Vietnamese BoQ77,This guy before the use of other account posing as Taiwanren, was banned after the report.
> Most importantly, Both of them are very close manner of speaking.
> Recently This guy disappeared, this account may be anotherof his account.



I don't think he is Vietnamese, just an eccentric Taiwanese member.

Anyways, focus on the subject matter of this thread.


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## dlclong

Nihonjin1051 said:


> I don't think he is Vietnamese, just an eccentric Taiwanese member.
> 
> Anyways, focus on the subject matter of this this thread.


You are Japanese, I can understand the reason why you think so.


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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> @Kolaps ,
> 
> Would you say that most Taiwanese hold this feeling towards Mainlanders ? I always thought most Taiwanese were fond of Mainlander Chinese as what members such as @TaiShang and the rest posit here. Just curious.



Taiwanese people, as I noticed, has lost most of the self-righteousness and self-aggrandizement that they used to hold against the motherland China and the the pessimism and fatalism can almost be touched among the general populace as the once-celebrated country falls behind the motherland in almost every aspect of a good governance. The latest food scandals just put another nail on the coffin; long gone are the days when the motherland-hating minority used to bash China and pride upon the existing democracy for keeping the government accountable and efficient. Those people have fallen into silent on the acceptance that they in fact are so similar to their motherland compatriots, if not worse. 

China, I should say, has been receiving increasing approval and support (no matter how implicit it is) from the average Taiwanese because of the increasing efficiency, credibility, power and scale of the Chinese government which actually delivers concrete results. China, in a sense, is winning hearts and minds. On Chinese TVs you can see more mainland Chinese productions running and receiving high ratings than Korean or Japanese. Taiwanese are feeling a silent pride of the successes of the country. 

Japan is not being hated, for sure, but, I can say, there is no over-the-board admiration. Youngsters are not crazy about Japanese tech; neither do they consume Japanese entertainment more than they do with Korean. The generation with vivid Japanese memories are dying off and the young generation has so far grown with the daily stories of China rising. 

Now that's the picture over here and anybody can do the math.

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## StormShadow

A series of explosions in the western Chinese province of Xinjiang has killed at least two people and injured many, according to the local government.

A brief notice about the multiple blasts in Xinjiang's Luntai county appeared on local government website Tianshan eight hours after the explosions happened.

It said the fatal blasts injured many people, and that local police responded quickly.

The Tianshan report did not say what caused the explosions, or give a precise number of injured.

Violent and often deadly attacks continue to be mounted in the western Chinese province despite intense security and an official war on terrorism.

The Chinese government fears religious extremists have infiltrated its borders from neighbouring Pakistan and Afghanistan.

It also blames an overseas separatist movement for instigating the violence in Xinjiang.

Clashes between locals and security forces in Xinjiang - home to the mostly-Muslim Uighur minority - as well as attacks targeting civilians, have killed more than 200 people in the past year.

The controversial trial of an ethnic Uighur scholar will see a verdict tomorrow.

Economist Ilham Tohti faces separatism charges and will more than likely be sent to gaol. Human rights groups say it is a way of silencing a government critic.

Multiple explosions in China's restless Xinjiang kill two, injure 'many': government - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


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## Shardul.....the lion

Rest in peace......


----------



## VCheng

@Fukuoka @senheiser @Horus and others, any comments on this tragic incident?

Does this mean that China's restless West will turn violent even more? How can China deal with this potential issue the best?


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## Trichy

RIP...


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## Fukuoka

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> @Fukuoka @senheiser @Horus and others, any comments on this tragic incident?
> 
> Does this mean that China's restless West will turn violent even more? How can China deal with this potential issue the best?


This is an old pic.
But to answer, i think for the moment Syria is taking all the attack of zionist ISIS, but as NATO are importing georgians and chinese in quantity, we can believe that in the future there is a war like this in China & Russia

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## sree45

Fukuoka said:


> *zionist ISIS*



So, You are of view that ISIS is supported by Israel?


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## VCheng

Fukuoka said:


> This is an old pic.
> But to answer, i think for the moment Syria is taking all the attack of zionist ISIS, but as NATO are importing georgians and chinese in quantity, we can believe that in the future there is a war like this in China & Russia



Such civil unrest, if not controlled, will have implications for China's economic progress.


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## narcon

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Such civil unrest, if not controlled, will have implications for China's economic progress.



It would be a miracle - The way I know China.
But you can have your finger in the pie...
Just don't appear for any PhD exam...


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## VCheng

narcon said:


> It would be a miracle - The way I know China.
> But you can have your finger in the pie...
> Just don't appear for any PhD exam...



Pies, PhDs and miracles in China? That combination does not make sense without an further explanation.


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## astra-2016

these fucking Islamic terrorists blowing things all around the globe


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## AgentOrange

An article long on speculation and short on substance. The article itself admits that no foreigners have been allowed into Xinjiang yet they have all of this wonderfully detailed "evidence" of Chinese "brutality." And the article basically equates heightened security measures to "a War on Islam." Typical Western attempts to "divide and conquer" China/Pakistan. 

Bottom line, no one is being dragged out of their homes, "disappeared", or whatever speculative nonsense that's currently being pedaled. In fact, during the last terrorism crackdown, an overwhelming number of Uighurs participated in helping to hunt down terrorists. This is just one more crackdown and it should not be overly brutal by any means. But to say it's a "war on Islam"? C'mon. The Chinese government is nothing if not pragmatic. Declaring war on a religion is anything but. So I say to our Pakistani friends, don't buy into the bullcrap. 



Luffy 500 said:


> Our Uighur brothers and sisters are suffering inhuman oppression and repression under the occupation of these communist monkeys. May Allah (swt) free them from their oppression and strengthen their iman ,ameen.



Don't believe the BS being pedaled by the West and people on their payroll (Rebiya Kadeer). One only need look at the rise in living standards and increased prosperity in Western China, versus even a decade ago to see that this is not true.



C130 said:


> if we wanted to get a few dozen AKs into China we could.
> point is we aren't training or arming them, yet.
> 
> and why do you keep bringing up U.S gun ownership? I don't see the relevance.



You tried that in the late 50s with Tibetan rebels and look how well that turned out. It only ended up harming the people you intended to "help" but it was never about helping Tibetans was it?

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## JSCh

Luntai County,

Population (2010 Census): 116,166
Area (km²): 14,185 (about 2-3K bigger than Qatar)
Density (/km²): 8.18


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## Abu Zolfiqar

given that its in Xinjiang, obviously a terrorist attack in the troubled area

hope the culprits are nabbed


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## bitter_but_better

sree45 said:


> So, You are of view that ISIS is supported by Israel?


I think he is saving Islam.. They kill peoples in the name of Islam and here we found 1 member saying they are jews..


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## BoQ77

using violence against violence, then that was the result.


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## acid rain

Seperatists most likely.


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## Anees

1 of 24



Ethnic violence in Western China targets Uighurs


The government says ethnic violence that has killed dozens is terrorism. Uighurs claim government oppression.
July 27, 2014Uighurs (WEE-gurs) wait at a bus stop in old Kashgar in the Xinjiang province of western China. Kevin Frayer/Getty Images
By Simon Denyer September 19 


SHACHE COUNTY, China – The month of Ramadan should have been a time of fasting, charity and prayer in China’s Muslim west. But here, in many of the towns and villages of southern Xinjiang, it was a time of fear, repression, and violence.

China’s campaign against separatism and terrorism in its mainly Muslim west has now become an all-out war on conservative Islam, residents here say.

Throughout Ramadan,police intensified a campaign of house-to-house searches, looking for books or clothing that betray “conservative” religious belief among the region’s ethnic Uighurs: women wearing veils were widely detained, and many young men arrested on the slightest pretext, residents say. Students and civil servants were forced to eat instead of fasting, and work or attend classes instead of attending Friday prayers.

The religious repression has bred resentment, and, at times, deadly protests. Reports have emerged of police firing on angry crowds in recent weeks in the towns of Elishku, and Alaqagha; since then, Chinese authorities have imposed a complete blackout on reporting from both locations, even more intense than that already in place across most of Xinjiang.



VIEW GRAPHIC 
Chinese police have cracked down on the wearing of beards and veils, in observance of Ramadan, in Muslim-majority Xinjiang province.
A Washington Post team was turned away at the one of several checkpoints around Elishku, as army trucks rumbled past, and was subsequently detained for several hours by informers, police and Communist Party officials for reporting from villages in the surrounding district of Shache county; the following day, the team was again detained in Alaqagha in Kuqa county, and ultimately deported from the region from the nearest airport.

Across Shache county, the Internet has been cut, and text messaging services disabled, while foreigners have been barred. But in snatched conversations, in person and on the telephone, with the few people in the region brave enough to talk, a picture of constant harassment across Xinjiang emerges.

“The police are everywhere,” said one Uighur resident. Another said it was like “living in prison.” Another said his identity card had been checked so many times, “the magnetic strip is not working any more.”


On July 18, hundreds of people gathered outside a government building in the town of Alaqagha, angry about the arrest of two dozen girls and women who had refused to remove their headscarves, according to a report on Washington-based Radio Free Asia (RFA).

Protesters threw stones, bottles and bricks at the building; the police opened fire, killing at least two people, and wounding several more.

Then, on July 28, the last day of Ramadan, a protest in Elishku was met with an even more violent response, RFA reported. Hundreds of Uighurs attacked a police station with knives, axes and sticks; again, the police opened fire, mowing down scores of people.


China's official Xinhua news agency said police killed 59 Uighur “terrorists"in the incident, although other reports suggest the death toll could have been significantly higher.

. The region has been in lockdown ever since, with police and SWAT teams arresting more than 200 people and drones scanning for suspects from the air.

Xinjiang is a land of deserts, oases and mountains, flanked by the Muslim lands of Central Asia. Its Uighur people are culturally more inclined towards Turkey than the rest of China.

China says foreign religious ideas — often propagated over the Internet— have corrupted the people of Xinjiang, promoting fundamentalist Saudi Arabian Wahhabi Islam and turning some of them towards terrorism in pursuit of separatist goals. It also blames a radical Islamist Uighur group — said to be based in Pakistan’s lawless tribal areas and to have links to al-Qaeda — for a recent upsurge in violence. In March, a gruesome knife attack at a train station in the city of Kunming left 33 people dead, while in May, a bomb attack on a street market in Urumqi killed 43 others.


In response, President Xi Jinping has vowed to catch the terrorists “with nets spreading from the earth to the sky,” and to chase them “like rats scurrying across the street, with everybody shouting, ‘Beat them.’ ”

But the nets appear to be also catching many innocent people, residents complain. “You should arrest the bad guys,” said one Uighur professional in Urumqi, “not just anyone who looks suspicious.”

Some 200,000 Communist Party cadres have been dispatched to the countryside, ostensibly to listen to people’s concerns. Yet those officials, who often shelter behind compound walls fortified with alarms and barbed wire, appear to be more interested in ever-more intrusive surveillance of Uighur life, locals say.

In Shache, known in Uighur as Yarkand, an official document boasts of spending more than $2 million to establish a network of informers and surveillance cameras. House-to-house inspections, it says, will identify separatists, terrorists and religious extremists – including women who cover their faces with veils or burqas, and young men with long beards.

In the city of Kashgar, checkpoints enforce what the authorities call “Project Beauty” — beauty, in this case, being an exposed face. A large billboard close to the main mosque carries pictures of women wearing headscarves that pass muster, and those — covering the face or even just the neck — which are banned.

Anyone caught breaking the rules faces the daunting prospect of “regular and irregular inspections,” “educational lectures” and having party cadres assigned as “buddies” to prevent backsliding, the billboard announced. In the city of Karamay, women wearing veils and men with long beards have been banned from public buses.


Terrorism — in the sense of attacks on civilians — is a new phenomenon in Xinjiang, but the unrest here has a much longer history, with many Uighurs chafing under Chinese repression since the Communist Party takeover of the country in 1949, and resentful of the subsequent flood of immigrants from China’s majority Han community into the region.

What has changed is the growth in conservative Islam, and the increasing desperation of Uighurs determined to resist Chinese rule.

Until a decade or two ago, Xinjiang’s Uighurs wore their religion lightly, known more for their singing, dancing and drinking than their observation of the pieties of their faith. But in the past two decades a stricter form of the religion has slowly gained a foothold, as China opened up to the outside world.

While worship was allowed at officially sanctioned — and closely supervised — mosques, a network of underground mosques sprang up. Village elders returning from the Hajj, the annual pilgrimage to Mecca, brought back more conservative ideas; high levels of unemployment among Uighur youth, and widespread discrimination against them, left many searching for new ideas and new directions in life. The rise of Islam was, in part, a reaction against social inequality and modernity.

But Joanne Smith Finley of Britain’s Newcastle University, an expert on Uighur identities and Islam, says religion has become a “symbolic form of resistance” to Chinese rule in a region where other resistance is impossible.

When hopes for independence were cruelly dashed by mass executions and arrests in the city of Ghulja — or Yining in Chinese — in 1997, Uighurs had nowhere else to turn, she said.


“People lost faith in the dream of independence,” she said, “and started looking to Islam instead.”

Not every Uighur in Xinjiang is happy with the rising tide of conservatism: one academic lamented the dramatic decline in Uighur establishments serving alcohol in the city of Hotan, while insisting that many young girls wear veils only out of compulsion.

But China’s clumsy attempts to “liberate” Uighurs from the oppression of conservative Islam are only driving more people into the hands of the fundamentalists, experts say.

“If the government continues to exaggerate extremism in this way, and take inappropriate measures to fix it, it will only force people towards extremism” a prominent Uighur scholar, Ilham Tohti, wrote, before being jailed in January on a charge of inciting separatism.



_Xu Yangjingjing contributed to this report.


China's war on terror becomes all-out attack on Islam in Xinjiang - The Washington Post_


----------



## Sanchez

You must be an Indian， just show ur color.


----------



## dlclong

How many times have you released? Are you tired ？
I am too tired to don't want to repeat answered


----------



## Jf Thunder

TheTruth said:


> They're also expansionists who have committed or aided in the commission of genocide of Hui Muslims and other Turks. They are just taking up space that belongs to someone else, I'd say.


again, they can all be culprits? 
should i be responsible for what my ancestors did?


----------



## dlclong

to some members:
what the"a War on Islam."？
who tell U china hate Muslim？! Uyghur？
why china need hate Muslim？whatis the benefit ？
China have ten Muslim nation, in addition to the uighurs,the other nine don't have a problem, no one said the oppressed! On the contrary, some Uighur separatists, use of Islam, is a disgrace for other Chinese Muslim nation


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## kolinsky

Islam, why we hate Islam? We have traded for more than 10 centries, and suddenly someone tell me we hate Islam. Where is this stupid idea comes from? Last war against Islam was more than 1000 years ago.

If some cawboy want to persuade us to invade Iraq, just forget it, impossible. Did USA ask our opinions before they invaded Iraq 2003? If not, the ISIS is a pure USA shit, they should clean their own shit themselves.


----------



## Luffy 500

Jlaw said:


> may bangladesh let them in.



Why not. In fact i m in favour of letting persecuted muslims be allowed to migrate to the 57 muslim countries. I am not a nationalist. But PAK ,turkey, *Uzbekistan*, *Kazakhstan* r in the better position geographically to help uighurs i.e negotiate with china for their migration. BD should allow all Rohingyas in and we can also afford that Insha'Allah. But u see Muslims countries r ruled by scums and add to that a portion of the pop. of these countries are European indoctrinated secular nationalist who would come up with all sorts of nonsense to oppose such moves. 



AgentOrange said:


> Don't believe the BS being pedaled by the West and people on their payroll (Rebiya Kadeer). One only need look at the rise in living standards and increased prosperity in Western China, versus even a decade ago to see that this is not true.



What else is western propaganda?  Chinese r ruled by a totalitarian communist party that just switched to mataliarestic capitalism for survival. It was always anti-religion and judging by the history of communism and its lunatic proponents , news coming out of xinjiang is hardly surprising. BS is when a comminity is not even allowed to practice their religion in the safety of their home. That's real BS. 


And prosperity in china means shit to muslims when u don't even allow people to be in peace in their private lives. Committing suicide in mass for failing exams and Gov enforced infanticide to preserve 1 child policy speaks volumes of the kind of barbaric society the middle kingdom has become.

How would allowing muslims to observe their religious duties in private life, threaten chinese hold over xinjiang?

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## cnleio

C130 said:


> if we wanted to get a few dozen AKs into China we could.
> point is we aren't training or arming them, yet.
> 
> and why do you keep bringing up U.S gun ownership? I don't see the relevance.


These AKs must be Type56 rifles made in China, sold to America by Norinco.
China can find out who did that, and send PLA attack UAVs out.


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## kolinsky

Whiskey said:


> Not all muslims are terrorists but majority of terrorists are muslims. is that ok now ?


I donot think majrity of terrorists are muslims. Muslims are ill treated by the western. To bomb people by bombers are not eliganter than bomb people by IEDs. More than 1 million people are killed in Iraq in a civilized way, USA is the motherland of terrorists. 

If terrorist is defined as attack civilian for the purpose of politic. The biggest terrorist is Bush and Obama.


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## KingMamba

The Huskar said:


> Infested.such a nasty word.we would prefer the term strategically located.
> Didn't you know Indians are everywhere.We plan to conquer my sheer population growth.



Sounds like an infestation to me.


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## The Huskar

KingMamba said:


> Sounds like an infestation to me.


If you want to see infestation,look at Bangladesh.
We are not infesting.We are displacing

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## AgentOrange

Luffy 500 said:


> Why not. In fact i m in favour of letting persecuted muslims be allowed to migrate to the 57 muslim countries. I am not a nationalist. But PAK ,turkey, *Uzbekistan*, *Kazakhstan* r in the better position geographically to help uighurs i.e negotiate with china for their migration. BD should allow all Rohingyas in and we can also afford that Insha'Allah. But u see Muslims countries r ruled by scums and add to that a portion of the pop. of these countries are European indoctrinated secular nationalist who would come up with all sorts of nonsense to oppose such moves.
> 
> 
> 
> What else is western propaganda?  Chinese r ruled by a totalitarian communist party that just switched to mataliarestic capitalism for survival. It was always anti-religion and judging by the history of communism and its lunatic proponents , news coming out of xinjiang is hardly surprising. BS is when a comminity is not even allowed to practice their religion in the safety of their home. That's real BS.
> 
> 
> And prosperity in china means shit to muslims when u don't even allow people to be in peace in their private lives. Committing suicide in mass for failing exams and Gov enforced infanticide to preserve 1 child policy speaks volumes of the kind of barbaric society the middle kingdom has become.
> 
> How would allowing muslims to observe their religious duties in private life, threaten chinese hold over xinjiang?



And muslim suicide attacks mean shit to the Chinese because there are more Han than Uighurs by far and the innocent Uighurs will be the ones who suffer the collateral damage. Terrorists and their supporters don't deserve peace if they attack innocent civilians. If you're so concerned about oppressed muslims, then stand against the extremist elements in your midst that are forcing a worldwide tightening of security. 

Rather than complain about China defending itself, why don't you ask where all the moderate muslim voices are? Rebiya Kadeer never condemns acts of terrorism and instead expresses skepticism about innocent Chinese deaths if they're caused by her darling Uighur terrorist buddies. Instead of whining about Chinese government *re-actions to bombings, machete attacks, etc* why don't you whine about the hypocrisy that both she and you display? But you won't and the silence is deafening.

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## TaiShang

*Document clarifies China's law on terror*

China published a judicial explanation on the application of criminal law in relation to terrorism on the Ministry of Public Security's website yesterday.

It said cases should be strictly based on facts, without discrimination and under the principle of tempering justice with mercy.

*The document urged authorities to differentiate normal religious activities from religious extremism and to protect freedom of religion.

It detailed how charges of "organizing, leading and participating in terrorist organizations," "inciting secession" and "funding terrorism" should be applied.*

Aside from bombing, killing, hijacking and arson, *those found to have started terrorist organizations or training camps, recruited new members, or indoctrinated others with religious extremism for terror purposes would be charged with "organizing, leading and participating terrorist organizations."*

*Those who take part in a terrorist organization, receive terrorist training and plot border crossings for terrorism will be charged with "participating in terrorist organizations."*

*Publishing and distributing books, audio and video products and other materials containing religious extremism and terror content will come under the term "inciting secession."*

This would also apply to disseminating religious extremism via websites, e-mail and instant messaging applications, through mobile phones, electronic reading devices or other storage media.

*People knowingly funding terrorism or providing terrorists with vehicles, weapons or other equipment will be found face "funding terrorism" charges.*

The document also said that insults such as "religious traitor" and "heretic" could lead to a conviction for "provoking disorder" and the making and showing of banners and other material of religious extremism would be made a criminal offense.

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## Jlaw

It's ironic some Muslims are going ape shit over this when their beloved brothers, the Saudis are helping Americans bomb their Muslim ISIS brothers. 
Israelis are killing their Palestinian brothers and they cherry pick about us establishing law and order on our own soil, assuming the article is true, but i have my doubts.


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## Nitin Goyal

In a major "terrorist" attack, 50 people including 40 "rioters" were killed in a series of explosions targeting a fair and police stations in China's restive Xinjiang province where the country is battling an upsurge in separatist violence by ethnic Muslim Uygurs. 

Forty rioters died in a series of explosions in Luntai County of northwest China's Xinjiang on Sunday, state-run Xinhua news agency reported today providing sketchy details about the deadly attack.


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## acid rain

Damn! !! Sad incident.

RIP.


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## kaykay

Rohit30 said:


> interesting, seems like the shit is hitting the fan after Chinese put the human rights guy in jail


Well Chinese know how to crush these animals.
On topic: Sad incident. RIP brothers! Hope China will crush these animals.


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## Gandhi G in da house

Nitin Goyal said:


> In a major "terrorist" attack, 50 people including 40 "rioters" were killed in a series of explosions targeting a fair and police stations in China's restive Xinjiang province where the country is battling an upsurge in separatist violence by ethnic Muslim Uygurs.
> 
> Forty rioters died in a series of explosions in Luntai County of northwest China's Xinjiang on Sunday, state-run Xinhua news agency reported today providing sketchy details about the deadly attack.



Goyal ji source to daldo.


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## Maravan

RIP


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## Nitin Goyal

50 killed in series of blasts in China's Xinjiang province | Business Standard News


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## dropithard

seems like a retaliation commies better give right to the minorities treat them equally give them freedom ..


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## kbd-raaf

Holy shit. RIP


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## itaskol

*警方披露新疆轮台县严重暴力恐怖袭击案情况*
2014年09月25日 

据新疆警方调查，巴州轮台县发生的爆炸案是一起组织周密，性质恶劣的严重暴力恐怖袭击案件。

9月21日17时许，轮台县阳霞镇一少数民族群众为主的农贸市场、阳霞镇派出所、铁热克巴扎乡派出所、轮台县城一商铺门口等处相继遭到爆炸装置袭击。案件造成6名群众死亡，54名群众受伤(维吾尔族32名、汉族22名，其中3名重伤人员均无生命危险)。公安机关果断处置，击毙和自爆身亡暴徒40名，抓获2名。2名公安民警和2名协警牺牲。

现已查明，该案首犯买买提•吐尔逊（已被击毙）2003年中专学校毕业后，逐渐产生极端思想，2008年以来，宗教极端思想更加浓厚，嫌其父母是公职人员，做饭不清真，不在家吃饭，甚至不参加其父亲的葬礼，认为弟弟结婚领取了政府发的结婚证，不参加其婚礼。在承包工程中聚集发展组织成员，形成以其为头目的暴恐团伙并实施犯罪。

案件审讯深挖工作正在进一步进行中。（记者田山报道）

for chinese member to read.

40terrorist Killed.
6 civilian dead
4 police dead

Good

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## PoKeMon

China only kills bad muslims..err they can not be muslims who are killed by chinese.

Kashmir shall be liberated.

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## AHMED85

China is disturbing on pre-plane strategy. 
in which aim is to depersonalize its relation with Pakistan.


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## Huaren

I like how they always make use of "" in the reports about china, kinda like making distinction between terrorists and "terrorists"

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## halupridol

RIP victims


Rohit30 said:


> Hans are no saints trust me I was watching a docu on what they get up to in this area it is terrible so I can understand why these people are fed up with hans.


got fed up,so lets bomb innocent people and kill police,,,terrorist logic
good that 40 terrorist killed

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## TheMatador

I hope they captured some of the terrorists to provide valuable information.

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## Cherokee

WHat and how it happened ?


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## blood

man whats happening in china ! 
anyway RIP to the victims


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## kankan326

dropithard said:


> seems like a retaliation commies better give right to the minorities treat them equally give them freedom ..


I believe the disaster was caused by giving those Muslims too much freedom so they got access to terrorism thought imported from other Islamic countries.

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## dropithard

kankan326 said:


> I believe the disaster was caused by giving those Muslims too much freedom so they got access to terrorism thought imported from other Islamic countries.



china will turn into another syria or iraq if it continues to target Islam and it's minorities


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## itaskol

AHMED85 said:


> China is disturbing on pre-plane strategy.
> in which aim is to depersonalize its relation with Pakistan.


Aim is depersonalize relation with Pakistan??


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## ChineseTiger1986

40 terrorists got killed.

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

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## itaskol

dropithard said:


> china will turn into another syria or iraq if it continues to target Islam and it's minorities


We never target Islam
We will hunting the terrorist down one by one.

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## EternalJives

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.


Agree without a doubt. RIP to 6 civilians and 4 policemen. RIH (Rot in Hell) to 40 terrorists.

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## jaunty

The figure of 40 terrorists is a bit fishy.

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## kankan326

dropithard said:


> china will turn into another syria or iraq if it continues to target Islam and it's minorities


China is not syria or iraq. Okay. We have power to handle our country. China has more than 50 minorities. All non-muslim minorities get very well along with Hans. So it's not a problem of minorities. If Islam can not live peacefully in China, we will turn it into peace by force. We don't care how others think. It's our country.

Have pity for Uygurs? We would like to send them to any country who wants them.

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## acid rain

jaunty said:


> The figure of 40 terrorists is a bit fishy.



A bomb blast ..
And 40 terrorists dead? Was it like a premature detonation in a jihadi camp?.


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## trident2010

kankan326 said:


> I believe the disaster was caused by giving those Muslims too much freedom so they got access to terrorism thought imported from other Islamic countries.



You should not say that. Pakistan is your ally and also a Islamic country. In the long term they going to object on the targeted persecution of muslims.


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## Anees

itaskol said:


> We never target Islam
> We will hunting the terrorist down one by one.



R u sure they r terrorist not rioters as per report ???

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## kankan326

trident2010 said:


> You should not say that. Pakistan is your ally and also a Islamic country. In the long term they going to object on the targeted persecution of muslims.


Best friend should not support our enemy. I know as an Indian you don't want to see the two countries stick together. It's not a problem of China, let alone India. It's Pakistan's choice. Nation safety is our top issue. Every country should know that.


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## itaskol

dropithard said:


> indians should know that the chinese consider Kashmiri terrorists as freedom fighters !and now this hypocrisy why not give freedom to the innocent muslims of uygur ?give them a separate land provide them with security @kankan326 you guys do not even offer jobs to the muslims ,you throw away any bearded muslim who gets on a bus you thrash them on public you force fed them during ramadan you ban burqa and you say you are not targeting islam?


we dont target Islam， but our law and national interrest are over Islam. they must obey our rules.
what you mean kashmiri terrorist？ hindus in india occupied kashmir？

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## kankan326

dropithard said:


> indians should know that the chinese consider Kashmiri terrorists as freedom fighters !and now this hypocrisy why not give freedom to the innocent muslims of uygur ?give them a separate land provide them with security @kankan326 you guys do not even offer jobs to the muslims ,you throw away any bearded muslim who gets on a bus you thrash them on public you force fed them during ramadan you ban burqa and you say you are not targeting islam?


Lie. China never said Kashmiri terrorists are freedom fighters. It's definitely US style. Not China style.

China doesn't offer jobs to the muslims? Another lie. China government requests nation owned companies in Xinjiang must hire a certain proportion of Uigur workers. But they are not so competitive as Han workers.

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## kadamba-warrior

dropithard said:


> indians should know that the chinese consider Kashmiri terrorists as freedom fighters !and now this hypocrisy why not give freedom to the innocent muslims of uygur ?give them a separate land provide them with security @kankan326 you guys do not even offer jobs to the muslims ,you throw away any bearded muslim who gets on a bus you thrash them on public you force fed them during ramadan you ban burqa and you say you are not targeting islam?




Exactly!!! This mindset from Indians has to change! Normally we Indians are the first ones to condemn any terrorist incident (no matter whether it happens in friendly countries or enemy countries)!!

But the world doesn't work like that. It was the same Chinese who propped up Pakistanis and armed them with Nuclear bombs. It was the same Chinese who could have pressurized Pakistanis to stop promoting Cross-border terrorism in India. But instead, the Chinese shot down the UN Resolution to condemn Pakistan for Mumbai Terror of 2008 -- knowing fully well that all evidences pointed towards Pakistan. Even today the Chinese wouldn't think twice about indirectly supporting terrorism on Indian soil because it serves their purpose of undermining India!!!

Now why should we condemn the "incidents" taking place on their side? For one, we don't really know what is going on there. It could be a state sponsored terror against its own minority, "for all we know"!!! You see, two can play this "game"!!!


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## dropithard

kadamba-warrior said:


> Exactly!!! This mindset from Indians has to change! Normally we Indians are the first ones to condemn any terrorist incident (no matter whether it happens in friendly countries or enemy countries)!!
> 
> But the world doesn't work like that. It was the same Chinese who propped up Pakistanis and armed them with Nuclear bombs. It was the same Chinese who could have pressurized Pakistanis to stop promoting Cross-border terrorism in India. But instead, the Chinese shot down the UN Resolution to condemn Pakistan for Mumbai Terror of 2008 -- knowing fully well that all evidences pointed towards Pakistan. Even today the Chinese wouldn't think twice about indirectly supporting terrorism on Indian soil because it serves their purpose of undermining India!!!
> 
> Now why should we condemn the "incidents" taking place on their side? For one, we don't really know what is going on there. It could be a state sponsored terror against its own minority, "for all we know"!!! You see, two can play this "game"!!!



well we indians are big hearted fools while we cry over such incidents they mock and laugh at you yindoos at any chinese forums when such attacks takes place on india. we basically live in a delusional bubble where we see an sino india relationship dominating the west and so on,meanwhile chinese dream is to expand its territories dominate the entire Asia empower pakistan into becoming a major regional power to balance or to dominate india in the future for its two front war ..we know the chinese game plan do not worry unlike the indian sheeps here goi is aware..right now we are trying to keep a decent relationship based on trade with the chinese we hope they do not arm the Pakistanis any further . that is our attempt or at least do not get itself involve in case we attack Pakistan

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## Sugarcane

R.I.P to civilians & police. China must go with full force to crush the extremist ideology before it goes out of hands.

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## halupridol

dropithard said:


> well we indians are big hearted fools while we cry over such incidents they mock and laugh at you yindoos at any chinese forums when such attacks takes place on india. we basically live in a delusional bubble where we see an sino india relationship dominating the west and so on,meanwhile chinese dream is to expand its territories dominate the entire Asia empower pakistan into becoming a major regional power to balance or to dominate india in the future for its two front war ..we know the chinese game plan do not worry unlike the indian sheeps here goi is aware..right now we are trying to keep a decent relationship based on trade with the chinese we hope they do not arm the Pakistanis any further . that is our attempt or at least do not get itself involve in case we attack Pakistan


 dont you worry ,,,,within a decade after completion of the road connecting xinxiang and Pakistan(upto gwadar,i suppose),there is bound to be a change in perception of Chinese.

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## kadamba-warrior

dropithard said:


> well we indians are big hearted fools while we cry over such incidents they mock and laugh at you yindoos at any chinese forums when such attacks takes place on india. we basically live in a delusional bubble where we see an sino india relationship dominating the west and so on,meanwhile chinese dream is to expand its territories dominate the entire Asia empower pakistan into becoming a major regional power to balance or to dominate india in the future for its two front war ..we know the chinese game plan do not worry unlike the indian sheeps here goi is aware..right now we are trying to keep a decent relationship based on trade with the chinese we hope they do not arm the Pakistanis any further . that is our attempt or at least do not get itself involve in case we attack Pakistan



That's right. I have seen senior and otherwise considered "sane" posters insulting, denigrating India at every available opportunity so much that their hatred for India is beyond belief. I would even go as far as saying that we could very well make peace with Pakistanis one day but I am not so sure about Chinese now!!!

But for me, even bigger issue is about the Chinese narrative about Ethnic Uighurs as terrorists. We outsiders have almost no information about the ground realities there. If India (and by extension, the other powers) just start supporting the Chinese narrative, we might be indirectly responsible for Ethnic Cleansing being perpetrated on an industrial scale by Chinese state machinery. We have seen painful Ethnic Cleansing of our own Kashmiri Pandits (yet again supported/bankrolled indirectly by the Chinese) and should do all that we could to stop it anywhere!

The information we have about Uighurs is scanty at best and we shouldn't blindly be calling them "terrorists" anymore!!!

IMO, it looks like "ethnic cleansing" from all accounts!


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## Europa

kadamba-warrior said:


> That's right. I have seen senior and otherwise considered "sane" posters insulting, denigrating India at every available opportunity so much that their hatred for India is beyond belief. I would even go as far as saying that we could very well make peace with Pakistanis one day but I am not so sure about Chinese now!!!
> 
> But for me, even bigger issue is about the Chinese narrative about Ethnic Uighurs as terrorists. We outsiders have almost no information about the ground realities there. If India (and by extension, the other powers) just start supporting the Chinese narrative, we might be indirectly responsible for Ethnic Cleansing being perpetrated on an industrial scale by Chinese state machinery. We have seen painful Ethnic Cleansing of our own Kashmiri Pandits (yet again supported/bankrolled indirectly by the Chinese) and should do all that we could to stop it anywhere!
> 
> *The information we have about Uighurs is scanty at best and we shouldn't blindly be calling them "terrorists" anymore!!!*
> 
> IMO, it looks like "ethnic cleansing" from all accounts!



how come such incidents are happening in the middle of a face off between indian and chinese troops? is it very difficult to figure out? 

indian agencies in tajikistan have the key. 

btw, how come uighurs's congress have a favorable view of india?


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## S10

40 of those killed are terrorists, unfortunately 10 civilians and police were also dead.


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## Europa

IND_PAK said:


> China only kills bad muslims..err they can not be muslims who are killed by chinese.
> 
> Kashmir shall be liberated.



interestingly uyghurs support indian claim vis a vis kashmir and not that of pakistan. either chinese agencies know it or they are dumb enough not to know it. whatever, uyghurs are an ally of india


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## mike2000

halupridol said:


> RIP victims
> 
> got fed up,so lets bomb innocent people and kill police,,,terrorist logic
> good that 40 terrorist killed



I dont understand why is it that muslim extremists always cause trouble wherever they go. what the hell is wrong with these diots/scums? Even here in U.K despite all the freedom and human rights we have given them, they are still trying to indoctrinate our youths and even go as far as trying to impose Sharia laws in some streets in London. WTH. These scums deserved to be shot at close range and sent to heaven to have some good pleasure with their 'Virgins'. Pathetic indeed. Kill them all, I have no pity for these scums who target innocent civilians, old men/women/children alike.

They should limit themselves in killing each other and fighting their Jihad war in the middle east, South and East Asian countries are focused on development/industrialization and improving their living standards. These scums shouldn't come in this region and start their senseless religious wars there as well. Just ask yourself, if they were to even gain independence, what will they do? the first thing would be to persecute/forcefully convert all other minorities/christians,buddhists etc into Muslims/Islam or face execution/persecution, Just like we have seen in several countries they have taken control of. Just look at Iraq/north Syria today.
Thats why i laugh when i see some naive people wishing them to gain their 'freedom/human rights/democracy' or whatever. They don't know what they are talking about. These scums dont give a shit about human rights or democracy or whatever. that's the last thing in their mind. So on this one, im with China, they should crush them wihtout mercy, just like the U.S is doing in the middle east(syria and Iraq presently).  we might even lend China a hand on this one.

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## Trichy

RIP...remove those terrorist skin and dip into sea water. ..

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## kadamba-warrior

Europa said:


> how come such incidents are happening in the middle of a face off between indian and chinese troops? is it very difficult to figure out?
> 
> indian agencies in tajikistan have the key.



That is an outrageously wild imagination!!! I don't believe India has anything to do with it. Not even the Chinese have blamed India anytime -- In fact, they have blamed the usual suspects in Pakistan. I think you are simply overestimating Indian Agencies' ability and Indian State's resolve to cause trouble back in Chinese territory.



Europa said:


> btw, how come uighurs's congress have a favorable view of india?



Not surprising because they perhaps think Enemy's enemy could be their friend?!

Like I said, we would not be doing justice to human solidarity if we simply brand them as terrorists when we know next to nothing about them! The Chinese, OTOH, all the motivation to narrate them as terrorists! It suits their interests to do so!



Trichy said:


> RIP...remove those terrorist skin and dip into sea water. ..



Right!!! Meanwhile, let the Chinese continue to bankroll entities that vow to harm India -- both in northeast and in Kashmir!

And also, how do we know that the Uighurs are all terrorists? Because Chinese say "so"?

*Even if they were somehow proven to be terrorists, *why should we support the Chinese when they continue to undermine our own anti-terror efforts by shooting down UN Resolutions against Pakistani terror?


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## Huaren

mike2000 said:


> I dont understand why is it that muslim extremists always cause trouble wherever they go. what the hell is wrong with these diots/scums? Even here in U.K despite all the freedom and human rights we have given them, they are still trying to indoctrinate our youths and even go as far as trying to impose Sharia laws in some streets in London. These scums deserved to be shot at close range and sent to heaven to have some good pleasure with their VIirgins. Pathetic indeed. Kill them all, I have no pity for these scums who target innocent civilians, old men/women/children alike.
> 
> They should limit themselves in killing each other and fighting their Jihad war in the middle east, South and East Asian countries are focused on development/industrialization and improving their living standards. These scums shouldn't come in this region and start their senseless religious wars there as well. Just ask yourself, if they were to even gain independence, what will they do? the first thing would be to persecute/forcefully convert all other minorities/christians,buddhists etc into Muslims/Islam or be executed/persecuted., Just like we have seen in several countries they have taken control of. Just look at Iraq/north Syria today.
> Thats why i laugh when i see some naive people wishing them to gain their 'freedom/human rights/democracy' or whatever. They dont know what they are talking about. These scums dont give a shit about human rights or democracy or whatever. thats the last thing in their mind. So on this one, im with China, they should crush them wihtout mercy, just like the U.S is doing in the middle east(syria and Iraq presently).  we might even lend China a hand on this one.



That would be a rare understanding where chinese-western interest coincide. I believe europe/US would have supported those "terrorists" before the rise of ISIS (ofc not in the open) But now everybody should realize this is global problem where extremists using religious as excuse for their perverse acts, and their influences and connections run deep throughout the world, fire at one region could strengthen conflicts at other part of the world. I believe China could manage this problem without outside help,just a few decades before it was like warzone with all the sowjets (and likely american) supports for the radical uighur forces, now its not even comparable. However western media and people should really pay more attention in such matter and avoid dopple standard, cold war mentality is still affecting the minds of many. ("terrorists", right?)

And to those fools among indians; you should see how ridiculous it is to claim that China supported islamic forces within india (and in kashmir no less), china would never support any group with risk of strengthen the radical islam, much less so close to xinjiang. One of the main reason why china and pakistan got close is the common interest to manage those extremist group in central asia regions, as even pakistan got their own problem with extremism within. Sure we will keep india in check, but certainly not at the cost of supporting any group with potential to harm us afterward. (Pakistan might have given verbal support to some in the past, but it should be obvious that they like anyone else already realized the risks of such groups)

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## kadamba-warrior

China blocked UN sanctions on 3 Pak-based terrorists: WikiLeaks

These people have been accused of terror activities with reasonable proof in Kashmir and also in India-proper. And China vetoed the resolution even when it was amply clear that they were known terrorists! They killed close to 200 innocents in Mumbai in one single incident -- which even Pakistani government accepted to be perpetrated by their own citizens!!!

How can Chinese expect India or others to support them unconditionally when their own record has been dodgy at best?!


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## Huaren

kadamba-warrior said:


> China blocked UN sanctions on 3 Pak-based terrorists: WikiLeaks
> 
> These people have been accused of terror activities with reasonable proof in Kashmir and also in India-proper. And China vetoed the resolution even when it was amply clear that they were known terrorists! They killed close to 200 innocents in Mumbai in one single incident -- which even Pakistani government accepted to be perpetrated by their own citizens!!!
> 
> How can Chinese expect India or others to support them unconditionally when their own record has been dodgy at best?!



1) It is "Pakistan-based or affiliated terrorists nominated by India", by definition its complex political play with dirt or not, to certain extend China must support pakistan on the international stage as ally, but this certainly didnt go as far as supporting those groups, much less with sympathy of chinese in general.
2) There was never any saying of chinese expect India or others to give support, just common sense would be sufficient.


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## acid rain

Huaren said:


> And to those fools among indians; you should see how ridiculous it is to claim that China supported islamic forces within india (and in kashmir no less), china would never support any group with risk of strengthen the radical islam, much less so close to xinjiang. One of the main reason why china and pakistan got close is the common interest to manage those extremist group in central asia regions, as even pakistan got their own problem with extremism within. Sure we will keep india in check, but certainly not at the cost of supporting any group with potential to harm us afterward. (Pakistan might have given verbal support to some in the past, but it should be obvious that they like anyone else already realized the risks of such groups)



If you support the Jihadi factory - you support the product - enough said.

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## Huaren

acid rain said:


> If you support the Jihadi factory - you support the product - enough said.



We are supporting pakistan who is fighting against taliban and such on the same side of the coalition against terrorism, if you failed to realize.

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## acid rain

Huaren said:


> We are supporting pakistan who is fighting against taliban and such on the same side of the coalition against terrorism, if you failed to realize.



Which Taliban? And, we don't fail to realize the actual fact but unfortunately, you will keep realising it every time something like this keeps happening.


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## Huaren

acid rain said:


> Which Taliban? And, we don't fail to realize the actual fact but unfortunately, you will keep realising it every time something like this keeps happening.


Your prejudice against pakistan makes you blind to their plight against extremism/terrorism, you cant see how their people are also suffering under the chaos created by terrorism? And all the efforts they have put on to contain and beat back those extremists? Without the effort of pakistan the problem would have spread long time ago.


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## acid rain

Huaren said:


> Your prejudice against pakistan makes you blind to their plight against extremism/terrorism, you cant see how their people are also suffering under the chaos created by terrorism? And all the efforts they have put on to contain and beat back those extremists? Without the effort of pakistan the problem would have spread long time ago.



You don't know the half of it, just let's leave it at that....as they say...people tend to learn from experience. ...and india and Afghanistan have experienced decades of it...so will you one day.

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## halupridol

acid rain said:


> If you support the Jihadi factory - you support the product - enough said.


 
point is,they have no access to those products as of now 
as i said lets wait for the road from xinxiang to gwadar to be completed.

and mark my words in a decade after that,considering all the peace n prosperity the road is gonna bring to xinxiang ,they will be singing a new song

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## kadamba-warrior

Huaren said:


> Your prejudice against pakistan makes you blind to their plight against extremism/terrorism, you cant see how their people are also suffering under the chaos created by terrorism? And all the efforts they have put on to contain and beat back those extremists? Without the effort of pakistan the problem would have spread long time ago.



Our prejudice? Almost the whole of Europe, North America, India, Iran and Afghanistan have been the victims of Pakistan based terrorism to varying degrees. Do you say that all of them are prejudicial against Pakistan?

Remember, even the USA used to support Pakistan against India for a long time during its existence and even today Pakistan continues to be a MNNA.

You should also know the Taliban themselves are largely a product of Pakistan and Pakistan was among the only 3 countries recognizing Taliban government!

Now you can't claim victimhood for Pakistan because their own creations came back bite them. It is not us Indians talking, read any sane Pakistani Columnist about the matter!!!

I would even go as far as saying that -- it is the Chinese who are prejudicial against India and they are totally blind against Pakistan's terror. It also serves their purpose just fine, why would you want it to stop?

*PS:
You are totally ignoring the fact that even today, all Indians condemn any terrorist activities that happen anywhere in the world -- because we have been the victims for a long long time. But your hypocrisy is making us condemn/question you when it comes to your own home-grown terror vis-à-vis the terror on Indian soil!!!*

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## BoQ77

there's always strange thing in China. in any terrorism attempt, the q'ty of terrorists died always bigger than civilian

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## kadamba-warrior

Huaren said:


> 1) It is "Pakistan-based or affiliated terrorists nominated by India", by definition its complex political play with dirt or not, to certain extend China must support pakistan on the international stage as ally, but this certainly didnt go as far as supporting those groups, much less with sympathy of chinese in general.
> 
> 2) There was never any saying of chinese expect India or others to give support, just common sense would be sufficient.



You certainly supported terrorists "directly" by vetoing the UN Resolution against them -- make no mistake about it. Today, the exact same terrorists roam around in public in Pakistan threatening India with Jihad and knowing fully well what they can get away with -- a direct result of your Govenment's veto!!!

So when India (& the US) "nominated" JuD as terrorist organization with enough proofs and after countless terror attacks, you term it simply as "complex political play". But now you "nominate" Uighurs are terrorists, why should we treat them as terrorists? Surely, they didn't cause any trouble in India, right?

Fight against terror takes discipline and takes unity among all the nations even when the nations are on the opposite sides of the spectrum on many issues -- including politics, religion, ethnicity. There should be no room for hypocrisy if you want to defeat terror. This is exactly why we Indians even in this own thread have been condemning this terrorist incident. We have done that all the time!!! But we have seen enough of the hypocrisy from your side to question your rage only when it hurts you!!!

If you start making it a "complex political play", you end up with "terrorists, terrorist sympathizers and safe havens for terrorists". It is only a matter of time before they turn on their masters. Unfortunately, it is the innocent general public and the security forces that are the victims in this "complex political play".



BoQ77 said:


> there's always strange thing in China. in any terrorism attempt, the q'ty of terrorists died always bigger than civilian



That's a dead giveaway, isn't it?

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## halupridol

BoQ77 said:


> there's always strange thing in China. in any terrorism attempt, the q'ty of terrorists died always bigger than civilian


 must be premature detonation and/or dumb terrorists.
nothing fishy,,very plausible


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## dlclong

I think the foreign reports, tend to ignore some of the information

6 civilian dead
54 civilians wounded (Uighur 32, Han22)
4 police dead

40terrorist Killed（Bomb explodes ，Or killed by police）
.



itaskol said:


> *警方披露新疆轮台县严重暴力恐怖袭击案情况*
> 2014年09月25日
> 
> 据新疆警方调查，巴州轮台县发生的爆炸案是一起组织周密，性质恶劣的严重暴力恐怖袭击案件。
> 
> 9月21日17时许，轮台县阳霞镇一少数民族群众为主的农贸市场、阳霞镇派出所、铁热克巴扎乡派出所、轮台县城一商铺门口等处相继遭到爆炸装置袭击。案件造成6名群众死亡，54名群众受伤(维吾尔族32名、汉族22名，其中3名重伤人员均无生命危险)。公安机关果断处置，击毙和自爆身亡暴徒40名，抓获2名。2名公安民警和2名协警牺牲。
> 
> 现已查明，该案首犯买买提•吐尔逊（已被击毙）2003年中专学校毕业后，逐渐产生极端思想，2008年以来，宗教极端思想更加浓厚，嫌其父母是公职人员，做饭不清真，不在家吃饭，甚至不参加其父亲的葬礼，认为弟弟结婚领取了政府发的结婚证，不参加其婚礼。在承包工程中聚集发展组织成员，形成以其为头目的暴恐团伙并实施犯罪。
> 
> 案件审讯深挖工作正在进一步进行中。（记者田山报道）
> 
> for chinese member to read.
> 
> 40terrorist Killed.
> 6 civilian dead
> 4 police dead
> 
> Good





54 civilians wounded (Uighur 32, Han22)

.

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## TaiShang

*Police provide details on Sept 21 terror attack*

China.org.cn

The Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region's information office released details on a terrorist attack on Sept 21 that killed 10 people, including two police officers and two assistant police, and injured 54.

*Forty attackers were shot dead by police or killed in suicide explosions, and two attackers were arrested in Luntai county, the Bayinguoleng Mongolia autonomous prefecture, the regional information office said on the night of Sept 25.*

The multiple explosions were detonated simultaneously at about 5 pm *at a bazaar patronized by local residents from ethnic groups; two police stations; and the front of a shop.* Thirty-two of the injured victims were Uygurs, according to a statement from the Xinjiang information office.

*A police investigation showed that the attackers were led by Memet Turson, who was shot dead by police. Memet Turson was under the influence of religious extremism since 2003 after he graduated from a vocational school, police said.*

*He has become more devoted since 2008. He believed the meals that his parents cooked were not halal because his parents were government workers. He even refused to attend his father's funeral, police said.*

*Memet also refused to attend his brother's wedding because the couple's marriage certificate was issued by the government. He recruited people to join a terrorist group lead by him when he worked as a construction contractor.* Memet then plotted and carried out the attack.

The investigation is continuing, local police said.

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## dlclong

Rohit30 said:


> interesting, seems like the shit is hitting the fan after Chinese put the human rights guy in jail


I think the Indians, there will be some like you, so idiot
54 civilians wounded (Uighur 32, Han22)，
This is in order to "free"?
Sucker !



dropithard said:


> seems like a retaliation commies better give right to the minorities treat them equally give them freedom ..





Rohit30 said:


> Hans are no saints trust me I was watching a docu on what they get up to in this area it is terrible so I can understand why these people are fed up with hans.





dropithard said:


> china will turn into another syria or iraq if it continues to target Islam and it's minorities





aneesdani said:


> R u sure they r terrorist not rioters as per report ???



and some sucker Vietnamese


Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Seems now China is taking advantage of the so-called "anti-terrorism" to kill indiscriminately the Islamic Uighurs who desire the independence for their lands...





BoQ77 said:


> there's always strange thing in China. in any terrorism attempt, the q'ty of terrorists died always bigger than civilian


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## Infra_Man99

Hunt down these religious cavemen. It is the natural norm for the superior creature to out compete and deliver extinction to the inferior creature when the two creatures compete for the same niche. China must not accept religious superstition and backward ambitions. China must advance forward by any means necessary.

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## dlclong

Infra_Man99 said:


> Hunt down these religious cavemen. It is the natural norm for the superior creature to out compete and deliver extinction to the inferior creature when the two creatures compete for the same niche. China must not accept religious superstition and backward ambitions. China must advance forward by any means necessary.


The terrorists cann‘t represent the whole of religion

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## Infra_Man99

dlclong said:


> The terrorists cann‘t represent the whole of religion



Of course they don't. Only an idiot believes these religious extremists represent all of religion.

These religious extremists are an evolutionary dead end or an outdated and inferior ideology. They must be treated as such. This is natural law and the path for man-made advancement.

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## Badbadman

Play with filth and you bound to get filth on you. 
Good luck china.

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## S10

Badbadman said:


> Play with filth and you bound to get filth on you.
> Good luck china.


I'm guessing you were implying that Pakistan is somehow involved. The fact is that most extremists in the past decades are produced in Islamic schools funded by Saudi Arabia and influenced by Salafism. They're mostly home grown from jihadists teachings. Do a little research before you throw dirt on Pakistan, or you risk looking stupid.

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## Beidou2020

Terrorists should be killed and terrorist sympathisers must be punished too.

Westerners have been actively sympathising with terrorism inside China.

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## AgentOrange

dropithard said:


> china will turn into another syria or iraq if it continues to target Islam and it's minorities



1.2 billion Han Chinese vs 20 million Uighurs. And out of those 20 million Uighurs, only a handful are radicalized. The majority don't want anything to do with terrorism but that doesn't fit the Western preconceived narrative about China so it isn't reported.

With numbers like that, I don't think Xinjiang is going anywhere.



S10 said:


> I'm guessing you were implying that Pakistan is somehow involved. The fact is that most extremists in the past decades are produced in Islamic schools funded by Saudi Arabia and influenced by Salafism. They're mostly home grown from jihadists teachings. Do a little research before you throw dirt on Pakistan, or you risk looking stupid.



Not to mention there's more Western involvement in Uighur terrorism than any Pakistani involvement. If anything, Pakistan and most Central Asian states have been very cooperative in not providing a safe haven for these terrorists.

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## haidian

Many of them are national level athletes and now in S.Korea competing for Asian games medals.

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## Infra_Man99

AgentOrange said:


> 1.2 billion Han Chinese vs 20 million Uighurs. And out of those 20 million Uighurs, only a handful are radicalized. The majority don't want anything to do with terrorism but that doesn't fit the Western preconceived narrative about China so it isn't reported.
> 
> With numbers like that, I don't think Xinjiang is going anywhere.
> 
> Not to mention there's more Western involvement in Uighur terrorism than any Pakistani involvement. If anything, Pakistan and most Central Asian states have been very cooperative in not providing a safe haven for these terrorists.



It's not just about quantity of people. It's also about intelligence, discipline, and goals. Most Chinese want to advance forward and have the brains to do so. The religious extremists want to go backward and are dumb enough to do so.

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## dlclong




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## Tractor

Treat them fair and have them in control,different people must be with different thinking.


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## TaiShang

*​
A bullet train runs across a bridge on its trial trip in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Sept. 15, 2014. The 1,776-km Lanxin Railway, which links Lanzhou City in northwestern Gansu Province and Urumqi City in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, will be Xinjiang's first high-speed railway when it begins operation by the end of this year. The Xinjiang section of the railway will be firstly put into service in October. [Photo/Xinhua]

​


​


​


​


​







*

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## cnleio

Good news, HSR connect _Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and internal China_ in a short time.

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## cirr

Lots of high-speed rails to open in the next couple of months。

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## cirr

Now that's a Taiwanese who apparently loves Mainland China's HSR

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## Jlaw

cirr said:


> Now that's a Taiwanese who apparently loves Mainland China's HSR
> 
> View attachment 99715


Who she?

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

CRH trains with sand dust proof design.CRH2H,for lanzhou to Urumqi line.

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## WaLeEdK2

Man I wish Pakistan had one of these.


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## bobsm

Jlaw said:


> Who she?


*https://defence.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q...zoKYCw&usg=AFQjCNE0-g2i9sFoAuGMBo1XBX_ybnStug*
*林志玲 Lin Chi-ling*
Contrary to popular belief, there are many of us who are admirers of mainland's progress. With our spineless govt, many of us are quite sure the mainland will catch up to, if haven't already done so, and surpass Taiwan in no time. Keep up the good work.
*https://defence.pk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q...zoKYCw&usg=AFQjCNE0-g2i9sFoAuGMBo1XBX_ybnStug*

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## twocents

bobsm said:


> *林志玲 Lin Chi-ling*
> Contrary to popular belief, there are many of us who are admirers of mainland's progress. With our spineless govt, many of us are quite sure the mainland will catch up to, if haven't already done so, and surpass Taiwan in no time. Keep up the good work.



Just curious, are you a member of 新党?


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## bobsm

twocents said:


> Just curious, are you a member of 新党?



No, I am not a member of any party, although I support some of their views, particularly on 兩岸和平統一.

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## twocents

bobsm said:


> No, I am not a member of any party, although I support some of their views, particularly on 兩岸和平統一.



Good for you. As far as I can tell, KMT and DPP are essentially the same with regard to unification. The polls that I have seen indicate that those in favor of eventual unification comprise less than 5% of the population. What's your take?


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## bobsm

twocents said:


> Good for you. As far as I can tell, KMT and DPP are essentially the same with regard to unification. The polls that I have seen indicate that those in favor of eventual unification comprise less than 5% of the population. What's your take?



The media here are mostly pro western types, so the polls are not necessarily accurate. For instance, although its just anecdotal, many of my friends and families have come to the conclusion that unification is inevitable. Granted, not all of them may favor it, but everyone knows that it will occur. It is just a matter of time. As is the case with HongKong, here, those in the minority tend to also have the loudest of voices.

As for why I favor unification? I have friends and families who are currently living and working in the mainland. On their yearly trek back to visit, I'd often hear stories of the real mainland, your successes as well as challenges. Overtime it painted a whole new picture for me of mainland. That is, a mainland no different than us. Anyways, keep up the good work there.

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## beijingwalker

> Attendants shine at Xinjiang-Lanzhou high-speed rail
> Bullet train attendants appear during an integrated test run of the Xinjiang-Lanzhou high-speed railway on Tuesday. The attendants for this railway are from multiple ethnic groups, primarily Han and Uygur. The railway that links Urumqi, capital city of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, and Lanzhou, provincial city of Gansu, both of which are in northwest China.

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## TaiShang

*China issues white paper on Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps*

The Chinese government released a white paper Sunday detailing history and achievements made by the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps (XPCC) to mark its 60th founding anniversary, highlighting its role in maintaining social stability and enhancing border defense.

"It has been a consistent policy of the central government to support the growth of the XPCC," said the white paper, published by the State Council Information Office under the title "History and Development of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps."

At present, Xinjiang is at a critical stage of achieving lasting social and political stability, the white paper said.

"It has been China's long-term strategy to give better play to the unique role of the XPCC in maintaining stability and safeguarding the border," it said.

*"Under new conditions, the XPCC should never be allowed to weaken, but rather be strengthened."*

The white paper elaborated on the founding, development, responsibilities, structure of the XPCC and its roles in promoting economic development, safeguarding the border areas, maintaining stability, and promoting ethnic unity in the western region.

Combining the functions of production, administration and defense, the XPCC has made "indelible contributions" to the development of Xinjiang by promoting unity among ethnic groups, maintaining social stability, and strengthening national border defense, it said.

As an important part of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, the XPCC assumes the responsibilities entrusted to it by the state of cultivating and guarding the border areas, and operates an administrative system with unified Party, government, military and enterprise roles.

It is a special social organization that handles its own administrative and judicial affairs within the reclamation areas under its administration, in accordance with the laws and regulations of the state and Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, with economic planning directly supervised by the state.

It is subordinated to the dual leadership of the central government and Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, according to the white paper.

*Starting from scratch 60 years ago, the XPCC workers have reclaimed ecological oases from the desolate Gobi desert, initiated Xinjiang's modernization, built large-scale agriculture and industrial and mining enterprises, and established new cities and towns through joining hands with local people of all ethnic groups.

By the end of 2013, the XPCC had 176 regiments, 14 divisions, an area of 70,600 square kilometers under its administration, including 1,244,770 hectares of farmland, and a population of 2,701,400, accounting for 11.9 percent of Xinjiang's total population, figures from the white paper show.

The total output value of the XPCC in 2013 was 149.987 billion yuan (24.2 billion US dollars), 220 times that in 1954 when it was established, with an annual growth of 9.6 percent; and 22.9 times that in 1981 when the XPCC was reinstated, with an annual growth of 10.4 percent.*

"Xinjiang has a long border, and safeguarding it is the responsibility the state has entrusted to the XPCC," the white paper said.

The XPCC, a highly organized paramilitary force, has played a special role in safeguarding Xinjiang's social stability and in cracking down on violent terrorist crimes, according to the white paper.

Since the 1980s the threat of the "three forces" -- separatists, religious extremists and terrorists -- to Xinjiang's social stability has grown, it said.

In rapid response to the July 5 Urumqi riot of 2009, the XPCC sent militias to patrol the city and guard key districts from possible attacks.

"At present, the XPCC is focusing its efforts on forging a top militia force in China, and building a system of regular rotation training and standby duty, which combines production, training, duty performance, and emergency response," it said.

"In the new historical period, the XPCC must play its part as a stabilizer of frontier security and stability, a melting pot of all ethnic groups, and a demonstration zone for advanced productive forces and culture," it said.

"It must reinforce itself, further its integration with the local society, be devoted to social stability and lasting peace in Xinjiang, and perform all its functions as entrusted by the central government."

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## Aepsilons

By Scott Devary


“China Executes 8 Convicted on Terrorism Charges,” the headline reads. It is a succinct, eye-grabbing statement that causes me to pause. As I finish the byline, I recognize an all-too familiar pattern in the Chinese justice system. Where the Uighur ethnic minority are concerned, excessive force and an opaque sense of impartiality are the rule. Official Chinese news sources read off charges linking the men to violent and dangerous separatist activities. The Tiananmen Square attack from the end of October in 2013 that left five dead and twenty-nine injured is laid at the feet of one of the men, an alleged mastermind, but the response by the state rings hollow and the reason is a complicated one. The Uighur separatism issue is far from solved, and the threat of domestic terrorism still looms large in Xinjiang.

For Western observers, Chinese domestic security policy has never had the appearance of justice or finesse, due largely in part to restrictions on a free press in matters important to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP). Law and order are important to every state, but a functioning justice system must rely on transparency and citizens’ rights as much as the guarantee of punitive action against a society’s worst offenders. One need only review the complex and controversial history of the CCP’s claims to the Xinjiang and Tibet Autonomous Regions to recognize that the law and public good have been capriciously applied in the CCP’s recent past.

This relative inconsistency in the use of force and treatment of citizens’ rights belies one of the central failings of Beijing’s policy regarding the violence of the Uighur separatist movement in Xinjiang: Overzealous use of force from a variety of official and unofficial agencies in the region only hinders the CCP leadership’s goal of a pacification. Despite this inconsistency, these events can give foreign analysts insight into what means the CCP is willing to take to maintain its rule – and how far it is willing to go. At the very least, they reveal how adaptable and responsive the central party apparatus is at dealing with such a nebulous security threat.

The use of force in domestic police action within China is difficult to fully conceptualize for the Western observer, whose political systems are usually based on the idea of political costs and finite political capital. How does one assess political costs for an arcane single-party system with state-run and officially-sanctioned public news bureaus? There can be no doubt that there are internal power struggles: Competition over resources and policy preferences and priorities must surely exist within the closed doors of the CCP. Ascertaining how much compromise, bargaining, and public influence are weighed by policy elites remains difficult, however. This is why the Uighur separatism issue is becoming more important and warrants greater scrutiny from foreign policy and academic circles. It is a litmus test to see how far the CCP and its leaders are willing to go in resolving a perceived internal existential threat in either direction: citizen rights reform or increasingly draconian security measures.

*Complex History*

Uighurs are the plurality in the western Xinjiang Province, which covers roughly one sixth of China’s territory: 47 percent of the population, with Han Chinese accounting for 38 percent. This is significant when considering just how important Xinjiang may become to China. Being the largest region within China, and a considerable energy resource base (Xinjiang is home to the Tarim basin, one of China’s largest potential domestic energy development sites according to Sinopec and PetroChina estimations). This information can be readily found in the first paragraph of virtually every news story in Western media discussing the recent surge in violence and ethnic strife in the region. What these pieces fail to discuss further when acknowledging the approximately 300 dead Han Chinese and Uighurs are the changes in Chinese domestic security apparatus within their cities. They ignore the complex history of Xinjiang’s annexation in 1949, the policies of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps (a quasi-military body in charge of both peacekeeping and infrastructure development for the region empowered by the PLA), and the relative disparities in resource extraction to development and income the Uighurs face versus their Han Chinese counterparts in the region.

China’s hold on Xinjiang has not always been as consistent as in the last six decades. The Uighur population has never been compliant with Han dominion, with a variety of uprisings and violent incidents since the annexation of Xinjiang in the 18th century. Moreover, during the 19th century, Uighur Chieftain Yakub Beg led a fierce uprising against the Qing dynasty rulers for twenty-two years, even gaining foreign support and trade from Tsarist Russia and the British Empire at the time. Additionally, the Uighurs established an independent state of Eastern Turkestan Republic in the 1930s, which lasted until Communist forces reoccupied the western province at the end of the Chinese Civil War in 1949.

During the early years of communist rule, the establishment of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps led to a quasi-military body being in charge of the region’s security and economic development. Performing a hybrid role of economic planning, construction, infrastructure management, and militia, the XPCC, although technically a civilian bureaucracy, was instructed to remain armed at a time when China feared border incursions and an escalation of tensions with the Soviet Union. Although it was temporarily dissolved by Mao Zedong in 1975, it was reestablished by Deng Xiaopeng in 1981 and continues to be a powerful economic and kinetic security body in the region. Tellingly, Han Chinese largely fill the XPCC and exclude the local Uighur population from economic and security policy development. Complicating the reputation of communist rule in Xinjiang are controversial policies such as virtual slave labor (Kuomintang nationalist troops captured during the civil war and being sent to the west to civilize and transform the desert into arable farmland) and the relocation of the “Shanghai Girls” during the Cultural Revolution which, under the auspices of resettling urban Chinese to rural areas, is viewed by many historians as a means of pacifying the colonial Han by providing them with brides.

Modern Uighur resistance to Han dominion over Xinjiang is peculiarly murky. It involves both legitimate appeals for human rights, and violent extremism and terrorism. The varying separatist political factions have received training and material support throughout Central Asia and from sympathetic extremist organizations, performing bombings, leading bloody riots that leave hundreds dead or injured, and assassinating local officials. These insurgency tactics complicate domestic security policy for Beijing, and of special consideration is the Uighur émigré population, of whom there are approximately one million worldwide, according to Chien-Peng Chung. Chung wrote in 2002 that “Beijing fears them nevertheless, because the mere possibility that they may cause disruption creates an impression of instability in Xinjiang and dampens foreign investment.” At the time, Xinjiang’s economic and civil infrastructure were considerably less developed. Twelve years later, with greater economic investment, energy resources, commodity production, and Han migration the Uighur separatist threat has even more potential to disrupt Beijing’s interests. Chung asserted that the impact on investment and development in the region of the physical threat would be of primary interest for the CCP in 2002, but economic growth (although of considerable value to the central party for maintaining its leadership mandate) is only half the equation. Beijing knows that a Han pogrom against the Uighur minority, even despite the continued terrorist threat, would have drastic consequences for the CCP both economically and politically.

The other major threat to Beijing is the continued physical threat the Uighur separatists represent to territorial unity for China. Losing control of territory, especially territory as valuable as Xinjiang, is a particularly troublesome concept for the CCP leadership, and very likely an existential threat to the party’s leadership mandate. Consider the psychology that has undergird the CCP since the fall of the last imperial dynasty: fear of foreign aggression and dominance over China, dissolution of China as a single entity into separate states, and civil war. Henry Kissinger’s 2011 _On China_ summarizes this psychology well in an eminently readable text, but a separatist group that is consistently able to secure training and material support from outside China and is able to consistently wage a violent opposition to Beijing is a very serious threat to the CCP’s image of absolute control, and its ability to provide the best leadership possible for its civilian population.

Uighur separatists have been able to provoke radical domestic security measures from Beijing that apply to its own Han majority as well: long lines for security check points to ride the subway, armed paramilitary police patrols, and helicopters in the skies of Beijing are just the first of costly security measures that change the way the average Chinese citizen is affected by the separatist movement. Removing the insulation of the general Han populace from the fight in the remote western province has only further increased public scrutiny on the CCP’s domestic security policy. A popular Sina Weibo commentator blogged, “the terrorists have achieved their goals, in part. Increase the costs of law enforcement, reduce social efficiency, and raise public tensions.” A further complication comes from slowing GDP growth. A decline in annual economic growth of even a few percentage points is no small matter for the CCP leadership. Beijing has a vested interest in making sure its control is perceived as absolute (as well as competent) in order to maintain the party’s position at the head of Chinese society.

On the subject of competence: Beijing’s draconian and paternalistic methods for dealing with the Uighur threat have been ineffective in curtailing the violence. Consider the more recent security policy decisions. Beijing has used a number of different tactics to quell disruption in the region at each instance of violence. The Chinese security forces have monitored and cut off Internet and communications infrastructure for the Uighur populace, instituted curfews, used “shock and awe” reprisal, enforced economic and political isolation, and even instituted public dress codes.

What we see now is the nexus of Chinese security policy with the complications of its economic development policy. Throughout its history under communist rule Xinjiang has experienced dramatic and sudden economic and demographic changes. Chung wrote in 2002 that Beijing’s “war on terror” was ultimately fruitless because it was not addressing the systemic economic and political isolation that the Uighur minority faced in China. Furthermore, the lengths to which Beijing will go to subdue the Uighur separatists shows an inability to adapt to a complex ethnic divide in its own state. “China is distorting the real situation of the Uighur struggle,” Dilxat Rexit, a spokesman for the World Uyghur Congress in Germany, said. “This so-called charge of terrorism is a way for the government to avoid taking responsibility for the use of excessive force that causes so many casualties.” Rexit argues a point that we have heard before in reference to Beijing: a failure to address human and citizen rights issues, only avoidable in the past because the CCP was able to consistently make good on economic development and security promises (or because of the threat of violence). This trend exacerbates the party’s problems in the modern era as interconnectivity through social media and internet publications continues to make it harder for a regime to enact information control on a populace. The harder they squeeze, the more the rest of the world hears of it, and that comes with consequences.

The pressure of developing a robust economy in the last four decades has often led the CCP to forsake regional politics in favor of a greater macro-end result. And while the results of this focus speak for themselves, lifting hundreds of millions out of poverty and dramatically changing the balance of economic power in the world, the CCP continues to alienate the party from the majority of its countrymen (the lower and middle classes) by failing to address citizen rights and quality of life issues. Uighur Separatists have engaged in terrorism and abhorrent violence, and those responsible should be prosecuted in accordance with accepted standards of justice. However, it can hardly be said that there is no legitimacy to the claims of economic and social inequality for the peaceful members of the Uighur populace within China. Denial of basic human rights, overzealous policing, and lack of access to the economic infrastructure of their homeland are a very real threat to their existence and way of life.

In May this year President Xi Jinping paid lip service to the plight of the Uighurs in acknowledging efforts to increase bilingual education and job access, but absent from his assertions was any mention of the XPCC and other quasi-military structures employed by the Han migrants that continue to keep the Uighurs at barrel’s length. Stranger still is Xi’s push for “inter-ethnic fusion” by attempting to promote via cash incentive Han and minority marriages, a concept rooted in lofty goals of a melting pot society but ultimately seeking to dilute the ethnic identity of troublesome minorities in China. The speech and the solutions are tone deaf to the plight of the Uighurs, even going so far as to suggest dispersing the Uighur population into the rest of China in a “reverse migration.” There are few data to suggest that these measures are curtailing the separatist movement any more than their predecessors did.

Why is the CCP consistently unable to resolve the threat of Uighur separatism and terrorism? There are no shortage of bright and dynamic leaders. Much is certainly written about ethnic divide and insurgency, with data to support it, and party control is no longer bolstered by ethnic chauvinism. It is obvious that part of Beijing’s policy for “integration” and maintenance of domestic peace and harmony between the minorities and Han within China should be a careful assessment and reform of discriminatory behavior by economic and political institutions, and yet those measures seem dangerous in the CCP’s eyes. Is the idea of reform linked with being perceived as weak on security issues for Beijing, or is it merely really a protracted campaign against extremists where even the slightest redress of grievances is seen as appeasement?

*Two Threats*

The Uighur minority represents two threats to the CCP: the existential threat of losing regional continuity (and therefore jeopardizing the strength of communist rule), and the inability to adapt to reform in order to diminish internal security threats. Considering the CCP’s necessity to appear strong at all times, it foregoes the scalpel in favor of the sledgehammer, ignoring a minority population rather than seeking to give them a greater economic stake in the region. Despite the control the party exerts in all facets of the Chinese state, the CCP leadership is content to either tie its hands and face the violence of Uighur separatists with paramilitary force and “shock and awe tactics” or it is fundamentally incapable of seeking broader income redistribution, citizens’ rights, and social reform that would help to appease or at least mollify and control Uighur groups. It would serve foreign analysts and academic bodies well to delve further into this issue, and seek to establish precisely what variables are affecting the decision-making process for the party.

The difficulty the CCP faces in its own “war on terror” is deciding the lengths China and its security agencies will go to maintain their legitimacy. Can Beijing adapt at such a crucial juncture in its development to a threat that cannot be addressed by mere kinetic security policy? A realpolitik option may come to pass: CCP leaders will decide they are willing to endure the continued violence of the Uighur separatists until they can simply overwhelm them via Han population density that they become virtual refugees in their home province, with increasingly harsh security infrastructure keeping the population in lockdown.

However, such a course could ultimately be far more costly for the CCP than it realizes. Internet communications, sympathy for an oppressed minority, and the costs of increased security infrastructure makes life unbearable for average citizens and business interests throughout China. Or, perhaps most dramatically, the CCP will embrace real reform via Xinjiang and the treatment of the Uighur minority and usher in a new age of citizen rights and regulation for security bodies. If so, this would be a risky maneuver for Beijing, but perhaps the most logical. It could set a precedent that would ameliorate concerns in other polities around China, helping to cement itself as acting in the best interests of the Chinese people. It is clear, however, that even if these exact scenarios do not come to pass, the CCP leadership will be forced to take more dramatic measures soon if it hopes to pacify the region. These consequences, intentional or unintentional, will be significant in characterizing the internal function and estimating political costs within the CCP.

_Scott Devary holds a Master’s of Arts in International Relations and Diplomacy from Seton Hall University and a Bachelor’s of Arts in Political Science from the University of Washington. He studied Mandarin Chinese at Tsinghua University in Beijing, PRC and has been a contracted researcher at the U.S. Department of Energy’s Center for Global Security and Brookhaven National Laboratory.


The Approaching Xinjiang Crisis Point | The Diplomat_

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## Huan

Are Uighurs allowed to be deported from China? If it is too much for those minorities to bear Chinese rule in Xinjiang, they can leave the region right?

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## Aepsilons

Huan said:


> Are Uighurs allowed to be deported from China? If it is too much for those minorities to bear Chinese rule in Xinjiang, they can leave the region right?



I think that would be contradictory, wouldn't it? I mean, given that they are still Chinese citizens. I wonder what specific laws they find so much contention with in the the Autonomous Region of Xinjiang. I wish this article could have elaborated more instead of focusing on historical anecdotes.


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## TaiShang

The solution to all problems is more investment and development as well as integration.

*Xinjiang textile fund promises 1 million jobs*

China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region plans a fund of 20 billion yuan (about 3.2 billion U.S. dollars) to support the textile and clothing industry, officials said Friday.

The fund will be part of a package to increase employment and incomes and maintain social stability, Yan Qin, deputy secretary-general of the Xinjiang regional government, told a press conference in Beijing.

The central government will contribute part of the fund and Xinjiang will raise the rest.

Apart from funding textile industrial parks and clothing factories, Xinjiang will subsidize local cotton and electricity in qualified textile industrial parks. The region will adopt strict environmental protection standards and control energy consumption during the process.

According to a 10-year textile development plan, 420,000 jobs will be created with an industrial output of about 86 billion yuan by 2018 and 1 million jobs and 212.5 billion yuan of output by 2023.

The fund will favor southern areas of Xinjiang. Clothing and tapestry factories there will enjoy free or low rents for a designated period, Yan said, adding that language and vocational training centers will open in southern Xinjiang.

In northwest China and home to more than 22 million people of 47 ethnicities, Xinjiang now produces about 60 percent of the China's raw cotton, but most textile companies are in eastern coastal areas far from Xinjiang.

The lack of factories has meant low demand from local enterprises. With poor rail links to the rest of the country, Xinjiang's cotton farmers have felt the pinch in recent years.

Furthermore, China keeps a tight grip on cotton imports to protect farmers, driving domestic cotton prices much higher than imports. In April, the government announced that it would suspend temporary cotton purchases after national cotton reserves reached 12 million tonnes, an amount that could meet domestic demand for the next two or three years if domestic consumption remains at the current level.

Gao Yong, vice president of China National Textile and Apparel Council,said he believes more textile companies will open production lines there and use more local cotton to reduce costs.

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## AgentOrange

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Scott Devary: "sympathy for an oppressed minority"



What sympathy would the author be referring to? From foreigners? The only thing that matters in a situation like this is domestic opinion and there's certainly no sympathy from Han Chinese who are on the receiving end of crude Uighur terrorist attacks. Whilst mere pinpricks against the overwhelming Han majority, every Uighur act of violence only hardens Han Chinese attitudes and, contrary to what the author claims, grants the Chinese government *more* legitimacy as well as a freer hand to respond with overwhelming organized state violence against the perpetrators.

IMO, the author is ascribing doomsday scenarios to Uighur unrest that actually have no historical parallels. China isn't Yugoslavia where the conflicting ethnic groups were roughly similar in number. Uighurs number a mere 20 million, while there are a billion Hans. Whenever people start using things like "trying to maintain a hold on Xinjiang" or "crisis point in Xinjiang", it strikes me more as wishful thinking than objective analysis. Westerners would love for Xinjiang to break away but it'll be a cold day in hell before 1.3 billion Chinese people let less than 2% of the population make off with a quarter of their territory.

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## TaiShang

Xinjiang's population is about 20 million. Uighurs make up about half of it. Overwhelmingly, Uighurs are for national unity and stability. Only religious and ethnics zealots are hateful toward the nation and they are dealt with as they deserve. 

Beyond all the ethnic richness of China, there is only one Chinese nation where everybody's loyalty rests on.

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## AgentOrange

TaiShang said:


> Xinjiang's population is about 20 million. Uighurs make up about half of it. Overwhelmingly, Uighurs are for national unity and stability. Only religious and ethnics zealots are hateful toward the nation and they are dealt with as they deserve.
> 
> Beyond all the ethnic richness of China, there is only one Chinese nation where everybody's loyalty rests on.



All these theoretically intelligent authors often forget, in their anti-China delirium, that numbers matter in situations of ethnic separatism and terrorism. They matter a lot. And none of the numbers even remotely favor the "good terrorists" the West has adopted as poster children.

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## Aepsilons

AgentOrange said:


> What sympathy would the author be referring to? From foreigners? The only thing that matters in a situation like this is domestic opinion and there's certainly no sympathy from Han Chinese who are on the receiving end of crude Uighur terrorist attacks. Whilst mere pinpricks against the overwhelming Han majority, every Uighur act of violence only hardens Han Chinese attitudes and, contrary to what the author claims, grants the Chinese government *more* legitimacy as well as a freer hand to respond with overwhelming organized state violence against the perpetrators.
> 
> IMO, the author is ascribing doomsday scenarios to Uighur unrest that actually have no historical parallels. China isn't Yugoslavia where the conflicting ethnic groups were roughly similar in number. Uighurs number a mere 20 million, while there are a billion Hans. Whenever people start using things like "trying to maintain a hold on Xinjiang" or "crisis point in Xinjiang", it strikes me more as wishful thinking than objective analysis. Westerners would love for Xinjiang to break away but it'll be a cold day in hell before 1.3 billion Chinese people let less than 2% of the population make off with a quarter of their territory.



I will agree that the author tends to focus on historical anecdotes, and its justified since there are realities to the plights of the Uighyurs' who voice out complaint against some policies of the Central Government. 

Now, in regards to the issue at hand, I don't think the separation of Xinjiang from China is going to be a solution to the problem. For one, China will never allow that to happen, and second, even if (hypothetically speaking) Xinjiang were to become independent, there are still Han Chinese who live in that province. I think what the author is trying to allude to is the need to address the issues to which the Uighyur minority find disconcerting. I have no doubt that the central government in China can solve the issue in a pragmatic manner, and it must. Afterall, these Uighyurs are also Chinese citizens, just as much Chinese as Han, Hui, Tai, Zhuang, Manchu or what not.

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## LeveragedBuyout

Like the Chinese users here, I don't see any change in the cards. The CCP is nothing if not a student of history, and viewed the 1989 "Autumn of Nations" and the fall of the Berlin Wall as a lesson not to be repeated (ironically, it was probably Tiananmen Square that accelerated the downfall of the USSR, again making an impression on the CCP for how not to do things).

The CCP thus cannot allow any results from the unrest in Xinjiang without encouraging other separatist movements and undermining a unified Chinese identity. Furthermore, what would the mechanism of Uighur autonomy be? They don't have the military strength to force change, they don't appeal to the other ethnicities of China, and their terror tactics alienate them from the West. The means of achieving their objective is unclear.

Even Scotland agitated for decades for its own parliament before it contemplated independence. Shouldn't the Uighurs have done the same (i.e. propose a gradual devolution of powers to the provinces in order to participate more in deciding their own destiny)? That would at least have had some appeal to the rest of the Chinese population.

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## Aepsilons

LeveragedBuyout said:


> Like the Chinese users here, I don't see any change in the cards. The CCP is nothing if not a student of history, and viewed the 1989 "Autumn of Nations" and the fall of the Berlin Wall as a lesson not to be repeated (ironically, it was probably Tiananmen Square that accelerated the downfall of the USSR, again making an impression on the CCP for how not to do things).
> 
> The CCP thus cannot allow any results from the unrest in Xinjiang without encouraging other separatist movements and undermining a unified Chinese identity. Furthermore, what would the mechanism of Uighur autonomy be? They don't have the military strength to force change, they don't appeal to the other ethnicities of China, and their terror tactics alienate them from the West. The means of achieving their objective is unclear.
> 
> Even Scotland agitated for decades for its own parliament before it contemplated independence. Shouldn't the Uighurs have done the same (i.e. propose a gradual devolution of powers to the provinces in order to participate more in deciding their own destiny)? That would at least have had some appeal to the rest of the Chinese population.



I would also like to add that, in regards to the CPC point of view, the Central Government needs to be wary of excessive change to the structure and organization of government. The firm grip of power the CPC has from the national level, to the provincial and further down to the municipal level is the conservative laws, and the expeditious handling of punishment if these laws are violated.China knows very well of the catastrophic failure of Gorbachev's Perestroika and Glasnost, which academic researchers blame as the cause of the rapid collapse of the Soviet Union. For authoritarian regimes like the CPC and now the defunct CPSU (Communist Party of the Soviet Union), change must come gradually.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang court sentences 12 to death for terror attack*







*A court in Xinjiang’s Kashi Prefecture has sentenced 12 people to death in connection with the July 28 terrorist attack in Shache county.

Fifteen others were also sentenced to death with a two-year reprieve, while 9 people were handed life imprisonment terms.*





On July 28, 2014, a massive gang armed with knives and axes had attacked a police station and government offices in Elixku township. From there, some of them moved to Huangdi township, attacking civilians and smashing vehicles. The attackers killed 37 civilians while 13 others were left injured.









*Police shot dead 59 of the attackers and arrested 215 others, confiscating the weapons along with banners proclaiming “holy war”.*

Subsequent investigations showed that the attack was organized and premeditated by terrorists within and outside China.

*A man named Nuramat Sawut from Elixku township, who had close connections with the terrorist organization East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), was identified as the mastermind.*

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## boke

不管是新疆还是西藏的暴恐分子，其反人类反社会的恶行都是无法饶恕的，这些人应该被当场击毙，对他们的审判本身就是浪费司法资源，那些受到暴恐伤害的人们是不愿意看到这些暴恐分子中的任何一个再次流入社会的。说这些并不是否定法治，实在是我们的法治惩治力度并没有有效遏制暴恐分子在中国的严重犯罪，这是所有中国国民不能容忍的！
就在昨天，两名暴徒残忍杀害了新疆一名女警，被害人已经怀孕两个多月了，我在想，中国对暴恐犯罪到了必须从根源予以铲除的地步了，为什么不越境打击恐怖分子呢？必须要让所有的暴恐分子清楚，进入中国或者教唆某些中国人犯罪，他们就不会有未来！

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## dlclong




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## esolve



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## esolve



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## indiatester

@esolve , Not all pictures are loading. Can you please correct them.


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## esolve

indiatester said:


> @esolve , Not all pictures are loading. Can you please correct them.


loading? what do you mean?


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## Sanchez

esolve said:


> loading? what do you mean?



上不来。。。


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## indiatester

esolve said:


> loading? what do you mean?


You posted 14 images, but only 2 are visible. 
For example
http://img.santaihu.com/2014/09/600_1277.jpg does not load fast enough. Possibly low bandwidth from that site?



esolve said:


> loading? what do you mean?


You posted 14 images, but only 2 are visible. 
For example
http://img.santaihu.com/2014/09/600_1277.jpg does not load fast enough. Possibly low bandwidth from that site?


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## esolve

http://www.bcmtouring.com/forum/attachments/600_4257.jpg-446438d1382730400

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## indiatester

@esolve Much better now. Excellent stuff. Thanks!


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## liall

HariPrasad said:


> Tibet will become either independent country or an Indian territory.



India already recognizes Tibet as part of China

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## Joeblow

HariPrasad said:


> Tibet will become either independent country or an Indian territory.



Now, was that really necessary? You sound like Zaid Hamid and his Ghazwa E Hind.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

y


liall said:


> India already recognizes Tibet as part of China


yeah, china also recognizes Asam as part of India

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## Aepsilons

Gorgeous pictures. Such a beautiful and vast country....!

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## Joeblow

HariPrasad said:


> But Tibetans do not accept China as their own country. Historically Tibet was never a part of China nor Tibet integrated with china willfully.



Why don't you look up the Qing empire and get back to me on whether Tibet was "historically" a part of China or not?

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

HariPrasad said:


> It doesn't matter whether china recognize s or Not. Assam is Indian territory from Ages. Asames Recognize themselves as Indian. This are 2 sufficient conditions.


I think the 2 conditions are not true.

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## HariPrasad

Joeblow said:


> Why don't you look up the Qing empire and get back to me on whether Tibet was "historically" a part of China or not?




because this is a fact.



Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> I think the 2 conditions are not true.




It is fault of wrong history taught to you by CCP.


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## Joeblow

HariPrasad said:


> because this is a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is fault of wrong history taught to you by CCP.



Chinese have held Tibet way longer than we've held any of the north eastern states. The Yuan dynasty had it. Ming lost it and Qing got it back. Where are you learning your history from?? Tibetians don't like it? Fair enough. But somehow relating them to India really is a bridge too far

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## Sheikh Rauf

Beautiful and amazing pictures. One of best place. planing to drive from Gilgit to Kashgar and fly from their to Shanghai.
Thanks for uploading. Plz do more if you can..


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## navtrek

HariPrasad said:


> because this is a fact.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is fault of wrong history taught to you by CCP.



Don't derail the thread.

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## HariPrasad

navtrek said:


> Don't derail the thread.




All right. I quite. I will not post any comment unless I am forced to.


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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Joeblow said:


> Chinese have held Tibet way longer than we've held any of the north eastern states. The Yuan dynasty had it. Ming lost it and Qing got it back. Where are you learning your history from?? Tibetians don't like it? Fair enough. But somehow relating them to India really is a bridge too far


there is no country named india. Just a bunch of British conolies integration

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## Lostsoldier

HariPrasad said:


> But Tibetans do not accept China as their own country. Historically Tibet was never a part of China nor Tibet integrated with china willfully.


Being a senior member these trolls aren't cool,its their part and we don't have any right to comment on its sovereignty.


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## Edison Chen

Fabulous natural beauty. Xizang, I am coming!


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## Lostsoldier

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> there is no country named india. Just a bunch of British conolies integration


This is fair enough after the comments from Indian members but let me tell you mate Indian history dates 4000 b.c. The time of ramayana.There was no country named India but an unified landmass known as Hindustan was always there which is called India presently.


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## Joeblow

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> there is no country named india. Just a bunch of British conolies integration



Yes there is. Take a look at the world map. It's actually a couple of years older than the People's Republic of China

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## kankan326

Joeblow said:


> Yes there is. Take a look at the world map. It's actually a couple of years older than the People's Republic of China


China is a name of country. India is a name of region.

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## key-CN

If someone saw a picture of the past in Tibet , it is estimated that no one would be interested.Tibet has changed so much.


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## Edison Chen

key-CN said:


> If someone saw a picture of the past in Tibet , it is estimated that no one would be interested.Tibet has changed so much.


 
That's mainly due to Chinese central government's financial support. Tibetans are rich, civilized now. Let's assume Tibet is under India's administration, it will be worse than ever.


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## Jayanta

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> there is no country named india. Just a bunch of British conolies integration



*Read some history first. *If there was no India...there was no China too. The Chinese map has changed over centuries...you cannot just take the golden age map and claim territories. In that case the Mongols can cite Chengiz Khan and demand for half of Eurasia, Indians can cite Ashoka and claim for an India from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka.

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## Jackdaws

kankan326 said:


> China is a name of country. India is a name of region.



Actually they are both names of civilizations.


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## jared yuu

Jayanta said:


> Khan and demand for half of Eurasia,





Jayanta said:


> *Read some history first. *If there was no India...there was no China too. The Chinese map has changed over centuries...you cannot just take the golden age map and claim territories. In that case the Mongols can cite Chengiz Khan and demand for half of Eurasia, Indians can cite Ashoka and claim for an India from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka.


actually we not,compare to qing dynasty,China has lost more than 400 Square kilometers territories including Stanovoy Range,Sakhalin.I hope china can recapture them,but I also know it's a withful thinking.

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## henry he

HariPrasad said:


> Tibet will become either independent country or an Indian territory.


dream on !

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## monkeynam2

Is this india's veiw of history?Don't forget the lessons of 1962！

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## zhongdafeng

HariPrasad said:


> Tibet will become either independent country or an Indian territory.


part of india? ridiculous!!!!
Do they look like indians? Do they sound like indians?
It's true that Tibeten culture is deeply influenced by Indian culture, but if you say Tibet can be part of India for this reason, then Thiland, other parts of China, even Japan can also be part of india! Because their cultures are more or less influenced by Buddhism! however, DID YOU INDIANS KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BUDDHISM BEFORE YOUR BRITISH MASTERS BROUGHT YOU IN CONTACT WITH OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD?
Tibetan people are RACIALLY, GENETICALLY, POLITICALLY, HISTORICALLY, SOCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, and CUTURALLY connected to Han Chinese.
RACIALLY and GENETICALLY, they are more close to typical Chinese than the Southen Han Chinese. They look more Chinese than the Southen Han Chinese who bear some Malay features, dispite their red cheeks which are the result of exposre to ultra sunlight.
POLITICALLY and HISTORICALLY, they became part of China from Yuan Dynasty ruled by Mongolians and the ties were strenthened in Qing Dynasty by Manchulian Rulers. We had armies stantioned there. Will you say Manchulians are not Chinese? LOL, after they became chinese rulers, gradually They lost their own language, and could only speak the standard Mandarin (while Han Chinese speak Han dialects), they study Confucianism better than some Han scholars, and their costume (Qipao) became Chinese symbol. When Qing house collapsed, China lost control of Tibet, but never had any Chinese government admitted its independence! Then the Communist party took over.
SOCIALLY and ECONOMICALLY, Tibetan people are connected with Han people in Sichuan, Qinghai, etc.
CUTURALLY, like Han Chinese, Tibetan people believe in Localized Buddhism, although they are different forms, and the mongolians in China believe in the Tibetan form of Buddhism. their language belongs to the Sino-Tibetan family, according to westen linguists.
They are not happy to be part of China? Even DalaiLama himself admitted Tibet is part of China, He had been one member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. But later he rebelled against Communists, he hates the Communists because they would "revolutionalize" Tibet, He can not deny the fact that Tibet is part of China, enven if he wants to.
there are not any armed rebellians in Tibet, only a bunch of seperatist activits. Look at your NE, dozens of armed groups which fight for independence.
acturally, the NE does not belong to India, they don't look like Indians, they don't sound like Indians, the only reason that they are part of India, is that YOU HAD SERVED THE SAME MASTER, when the English master left, the Housekeeper took himself as the master, and stroger servants (PAK, BAN, Nepal...) broke away from it, while the weaker ones had to serve their new master who used to be the housekeeper.

acturally, the NE does not belong to India, they don't look like Indians, they don't sound like Indians, the only reason that they are part of India, is that YOU HAD SERVED THE SAME MASTER, when the English master left, the Housekeeper took himself as the master, and stroger servants (PAK, BAN, Nepal...) broke away from it, while the weaker ones had to serve their new master who used to be the housekeeper

Source: China's Tibet&Xinjiang in an Indian's eyes

acturally, the NE does not belong to India, they don't look like Indians, they don't sound like Indians, the only reason that they are part of India, is that YOU HAD SERVED THE SAME MASTER, when the English master left, the Housekeeper took himself as the master, and stroger servants (PAK, BAN, Nepal...) broke away from it, while the weaker ones had to serve their new master who used to be the housekeeper

Source: China's Tibet&Xinjiang in an Indian's eyes | Page 3

there are not any armed rebellians in Tibet, only a bunch of seperatist activits. Look at your NE, dozens of armed groups which fight for independence.

Source: China's Tibet&Xinjiang in an Indian's eyes | Page 3

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## BoQ77

Calm down zhongdafeng, please !!!
Just express your idea.


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## Edison Chen

You guys spoiled the beatiful pictures, OP should post it to a tourist forum.

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## TaiShang

zhongdafeng said:


> part of india? ridiculous!!!!
> Do they look like indians? Do they sound like indians?
> It's true that Tibeten culture is deeply influenced by Indian culture, but if you say Tibet can be part of India for this reason, then Thiland, other parts of China, even Japan can also be part of india! Because their cultures are more or less influenced by Buddhism! however, DID YOU INDIANS KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BUDDHISM BEFORE YOUR BRITISH MASTERS BROUGHT YOU IN CONTACT WITH OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD?
> Tibetan people are RACIALLY, GENETICALLY, POLITICALLY, HISTORICALLY, SOCIALLY, ECONOMICALLY, and CUTURALLY connected to Han Chinese.
> RACIALLY and GENETICALLY, they are more close to typical Chinese than the Southen Han Chinese. They look more Chinese than the Southen Han Chinese who bear some Malay features, dispite their red cheeks which are the result of exposre to ultra sunlight.
> POLITICALLY and HISTORICALLY, they became part of China from Yuan Dynasty ruled by Mongolians and the ties were strenthened in Qing Dynasty by Manchulian Rulers. We had armies stantioned there. Will you say Manchulians are not Chinese? LOL, after they became chinese rulers, gradually They lost their own language, and could only speak the standard Mandarin (while Han Chinese speak Han dialects), they study Confucianism better than some Han scholars, and their costume (Qipao) became Chinese symbol. When Qing house collapsed, China lost control of Tibet, but never had any Chinese government admitted its independence! Then the Communist party took over.
> SOCIALLY and ECONOMICALLY, Tibetan people are connected with Han people in Sichuan, Qinghai, etc.
> CUTURALLY, like Han Chinese, Tibetan people believe in Localized Buddhism, although they are different forms, and the mongolians in China believe in the Tibetan form of Buddhism. their language belongs to the Sino-Tibetan family, according to westen linguists.
> They are not happy to be part of China? Even DalaiLama himself admitted Tibet is part of China, He had been one member of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference. But later he rebelled against Communists, he hates the Communists because they would "revolutionalize" Tibet, He can not deny the fact that Tibet is part of China, enven if he wants to.
> there are not any armed rebellians in Tibet, only a bunch of seperatist activits. Look at your NE, dozens of armed groups which fight for independence.
> acturally, the NE does not belong to India, they don't look like Indians, they don't sound like Indians, the only reason that they are part of India, is that YOU HAD SERVED THE SAME MASTER, when the English master left, the Housekeeper took himself as the master, and stroger servants (PAK, BAN, Nepal...) broke away from it, while the weaker ones had to serve their new master who used to be the housekeeper.
> 
> acturally, the NE does not belong to India, they don't look like Indians, they don't sound like Indians, the only reason that they are part of India, is that YOU HAD SERVED THE SAME MASTER, when the English master left, the Housekeeper took himself as the master, and stroger servants (PAK, BAN, Nepal...) broke away from it, while the weaker ones had to serve their new master who used to be the housekeeper
> 
> Source: China's Tibet&Xinjiang in an Indian's eyes
> 
> acturally, the NE does not belong to India, they don't look like Indians, they don't sound like Indians, the only reason that they are part of India, is that YOU HAD SERVED THE SAME MASTER, when the English master left, the Housekeeper took himself as the master, and stroger servants (PAK, BAN, Nepal...) broke away from it, while the weaker ones had to serve their new master who used to be the housekeeper
> 
> Source: China's Tibet&Xinjiang in an Indian's eyes | Page 3
> 
> there are not any armed rebellians in Tibet, only a bunch of seperatist activits. Look at your NE, dozens of armed groups which fight for independence.
> 
> Source: China's Tibet&Xinjiang in an Indian's eyes | Page 3



Very informative post. Thanks!

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## Joeblow

zhongdafeng said:


> DID YOU INDIANS KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT BUDDHISM BEFORE YOUR BRITISH MASTERS BROUGHT YOU IN CONTACT WITH OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD?



You know Buddhism came from India, right?


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## ShahidT

Joeblow said:


> You know Buddhism came from India, right?



buddha was born and originated in lumbini NEPAL. which is a mongoloid nation. buddha himself was mongoloid just like tibetan and chinese. cross post from another forum.

















One of Buddha's disciple draw it secretly, while Buddha was teaching.

Yes, Sakyamuni Buddha is Mongoloid race.

The original photo stored in British museum.



Before the term Nepal came to exist from 4th B.C, it was called "Kiratdesh".

Kiratdesh was never part of Bharat(India) as mentioned in Veda and other Hindu scriptures.

Buddha was born into Shakya family,whom are Mongoloid in race.That's he is also known as "Sakyamuni"("sage of the Shakyas")

Come to Kathmandu and go to Newar towns in patan and bhakatpur. you would meet Shakya communities sub group of Newar. then look them straight into their eyes and tell them if they look indo-Aryan.

Now tell me what proof do you have that shakya was aryan? just because he was from royal family(kshatriyas) doesn't mean he was from aryan race.

kshatriyas refers to warriors and kings. there were Kirat(Mongoloid) kings and warriors too hence kshatriyas in category.

Over 2500+ years ago, Himalayas region was a stronghold of Kiratas. Kiratas means Mongoloid race. This is even mentioned in Veda, Puranas, Epic.

The Sutta Lakkhan, describes the Shakya, whom the Gautma Buddha was born into as "those yellow-skinned, soft and delicate as the bronze, his dark hair and slanted eyes and black" (dialogues of the Buddha, Part III p.138)


read the following by Professor of University of Bangkok, Thailand
My Political Thought on the life of the Buddha :



> *My Political Thought on the life of the Buddhaby Chamnong Tongprasert
> The author of this article, Chamnong Tongprasert is at present Visiting Lecturer of Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University in Bangkok, Thailand.
> This article had already been Printed in the Overseas Going Buddhist Missionary Monks Class V, (Bangkok: Dhammaduta Bhikkhus Going Abroad, 2000), pp.77-96.
> 
> Introduction
> Many thousand years ago, before the Aryan invasion, the land which is now called "India" was the land of the black-, brown-, and yellow-skinned people. They were the people of Negroid and Mongoloid stocks. After the Ariyan invasion about 2,000 B.C., these native people who were defeated were called "Milakkha" by the Aryans. They lived scattered along the foot of the Himalayan mountains, in the north, the north-east, and the south of India. Most of the brown- and yellow-skinned peoples or the Mongoloids lived in the north and north-east, and the black-skinned in the south. Some of them were independent and some depended on the Aryan kingdoms.
> We do not know exactly about the history of India before the Buddha's time. However, we know that in the time of the Buddha, some of the Mongoloid kingdoms, such as Sakka and Koliya, were the vassals of Kosala Kingdom. Other kingdoms, such as Vajji and Malla Kingdoms, were independent. All of them were governed as republics. Though some of them were the vassals of the Aryans, they were not absolutely colonized. This matter will be mentioned in the next section.
> The political status of the Sakyan people
> In the north of India, near the foot of the Himalayan mountains, there was a kingdom of yellow-skinned people - the Sakyan. their complexion, according to the Lakkhana Sutta, was like bronze; their skin was delicately smooth; their eyes and hair were black.[1] In those days, the Sakyans were the vassals of King Pasenadi of the Kosala. They had to render to him homage and respectful salutation. They rose and did him obeisance and treated him with ceremony.[2]
> These Sakyans undoubtedly were of Mongoloid race, for most of the peoples along the foot of the Himalayan mountains even nowadays, including Nepal wherein the Sakyan Kingdom was established, belong to the Mongoloid race. The Sakyans were one of many Mongoloid groups who were scattered in the north of India. Most of them had a special type of administration, different from that of the Aryan people. Most of the Aryans were governed by absolute monarchy; but Mongoloids had republics. Some of the Mongoloids could maintain their independence even in the time of the Buddha, such as the Vajjians, the Mallas etc. Others became the vassals of the Aryan kingdoms, such as Sakyans and Koliyas. Thus the political status of the Sakyans was not so high.
> Every step of their movement might be observed by the Kosalans all of the time. On the other hand, the Sakyan kingdom, compared to Kosala, was too small. The Sakyans had no chance to fight for their independence at all. In that time, Kosala was one of the most powerful kingdoms, second only to Magadha.
> Though Kosala permitted the Sakyans to govern themselves in the style they liked, it was not different to the protectorates. The Sakyans had freedom only in economics, commerce and justice, but undoubtedly not in military matters. Though the Sakyans wanted independence, how they could achieve it when they had no great army? The Kosala would certainly not release them.
> The Sakyans had freedom only within limits given by Kosala. Nevertheless, independence was in their thoughts all the time. Their governmental body was composed of the headmen from several great families. These Sakyan headmen called themselves "Khattiya" (Kshatriya) or "Warriors", or sometimes "Raja", not "King" of the western idea. They usually had conferences. In the conferences, they would elect one amongst themselves to act as the President. If someone performed that position very well, he might be appointed President for a long period, like Suddhodana of the Sakyans. Sometimes the presidency was rotated like that of the Vajjians.
> The secular status of Siddhattha
> Siddhattha was the son of Suddhodana. His mother was Siri Maha Maya of Koliyas, the other group of the Mongoloid people. Siddhattha was born in 623 B.C. in Lumbini Park, between Kapilavatthu and Devadaha. He was the "son in the hope" of the Sakyans. He possessed the thirty-two marks of a Superman. The astrologist foretold that if he lived the life of the House, he would become the Supreme Monarch -- the Cakravartin; but if he went forth from the life of the House into the Homeless State, he would become an Arahant, A Buddha Supreme, rolling back the veil of ignorance from the world.[3] He, thus, was the "goal in the hope" of the Sakyans. His father and people loved him and wanted him to be the Supreme Monarch. For it meant that they wanted to throw off the yoke of the Kosalans' power. Their dream might be realized in the near future.
> Siddhattha was fed well and grew up in a luxurious environment. He had three palaces and many beautiful girls surrounded him. He married his very beautiful cousin name Yasodhara when he was only sixteen years old. He had an opportunity to study the art of governing from many famous teachers. He was trained to be a good leader of the Sakyans in both military and government matters. He received every luxury. However, he did not become attached to these luxurious things very long.
> Siddhattha knew his status and the status of his clan well. He would not try to throw off the yoke of the Kosalans by fighting even though he might be an able-bodied man and have an superior intelligence. He and his few able friends and a small army could not fight the great, well-trained army of the Kosalans. It was not easy to gain independence in this way, and it was not the clever way at all. It would be like the insects flying into the fire. It was necessary for him to seek another way, the way of gaining independence without bloodshed- the peaceful independence. What should be done? He thought, thought, and thought. How could he do it, without the Kosalans' thinking that they had lost their control?
> Renouncing the world
> When he was twenty-nine years of age, after having seen the four "Devadutas", i.e. the old aged, the sick, the dead man, and the wanderer, he decided to renounce the world on the day his son, Rahula, was born. He renounced the world by cutting off his hair, wearing the yellow robes and going out from his house while his parents wept and wailed.[4]
> If he had not taken that opportunity, it would have been difficult for him to renounce the world. It was the love of property, wife and son were like the enemies which tied his neck, hands, and feet. They would prevent him from going anywhere. The love of wife and son would destroy his plan for independence. If he could not conquer the enemy inside his mind, how could he conquer the enemy outside? Though he loved his parents, wife, son, and property, but he loved the independence of his kingdom and people more. If he was the Enlightened One as the Brahmans had foretold, that meant that he would get not only independence from personal defilement but also independence of his kingdom and people from the control of Kosala. Though it would be very difficult for an ordinary man to leave his lovely wife and pretty son, but in case Siddhattha, he was an exception. He could do things that others could not do, because he was the greatest man the world had ever produced. When he decided to renounce the world, the important problem was where he should go to first.
> In Magadha Kingdom and Siddhattha's study
> From Kapilavatthu, Siddhattha went straight to the Magadha Kingdom. Why did he not go to the kingdom such as Kosala, Kasi, etc.? In those days, there were only two most powerful kingdoms, viz. Magadha and Kosala. Kasi was under the power of Kosala. If Siddhattha went to Kasi or Kosala, it would not be safe for him. King Pasenadi of Kosala might not trust him, and his plan for his kingdom's independence would not be successful. So he went to Magadha, the other Kingdom which had great power, perhaps even more than that of Kosala.
> When he passed through the palace in Rajagaha, the capital of Magadha, King Bimbisara saw him, came to see him, interviewed him, and invited him to live with him in Rajagaha. But nevertheless, Siddhattha refused the good wished of Bimbisara, and told the king gently that he wanted to renounce the world and did not want the throne, and then took leave of the King. Bimbisara requested Siddhattha to come and preach him if he were the Enlightened One. We do not know whether the invitation of King Bimbisara came from the heart or not. It might have been only a political test. If Siddhattha received the invitation, it could mean that he had no true intention to renounce the world as he had told the king. That might be the great danger for him. He would lose his life and his kingdom would have no chance to gain independence any longer.
> Siddhattha's refusal had many effects. First of all, King Bimbisara now trusted him and did not fear that he would usurp his throne. In this way, Siddhattha could stay there happily and openly. Tie s of amity were thus established with Bimbisara. He constructed for himself a place in the balance of power in a very clever way. As a result, King Pasenadi of Kosala would not dare to do anything dangerous to him. Though these two kingdoms had close relationships to each other, but in politics and power, they competed secretly.
> This, however, was only the beginning of Siddhattha's political play. He did not fight the Aryan military power only, but also the power of Aryan faith too. He wanted to destroy both the power of Aryan military and faith in his kingdom. In order to upset Brahmanism, the Aryans' faith, it was necessary for him to study and practise according to that religion first. If he himself did not test it, how could he say that it was not good? So he began to study under Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta[5] until he knew everything that the Aryans knew. He assimilated it throughly and rapidly, but was not satisfied because he found that it was not conductive to perfect knowledge and salvation. Then he went away.
> Mortification and Enlightenment
> Siddhattha tried to study and practise every kind of knowledge and Yogas which were popular in those days. He applied himself to meditation, accompanied by complete cessation of breathing, by reducing his food to a grain of rice each day, and by living on seeds and grass etc. In the Mahasihanada Sutta,[6] he told Sariputta about many kinds of his practice of self-mortification which were practised by other religions. He reflected that he had reached the limit of self-mortification, yet he had not attained no enlightenment. He thought there must be another way to enlightenment. He thought of the way of meditation which he had once practised when he was a child. But to practise it, he must have more strength and to get strength, he must eat. and then he began to meditate again. At last, in the last watch of the full moon day of Visakha, 588 B.C., he attained the enlightenment: that is, he understood the nature of suffering, the cause of suffering, the cessation of suffering, and the way that leads to the cessation of suffering. The ignorance was destroyed and the knowledge had arisen. He was now "Samma-sambuddha", the one who obtained enlightenment by himself, not by the assistance of others. Now he himself was independent of defilement, the inside enemy. One of his aims was successful, but the other, the aim for independence of his people and his country was still unfulfilled. He must struggle further carefully.
> The first sermon and first disciple
> On attaining enlightenment, the Buddha at first despaired of preaching the truth to others. He reflected that his doctrine was abstruse and that mankind was given over to their desires. How could such men understand the chain of cause and effect, or teachings about Nirvana and the annihilation of desire? His knowledge was so new and deep for men of that time. It was so far different from the other doctrines, such as Brahmanism. So he determined to remain quiet and not to preach. However, he later realized that if he did not preach his new Dhamma, how could his people, his relatives, and his parents, gain independence. His purpose of renouncing the world was to liberate his kingdom too. By now he drew near that goal, why should he despair? Only he himself could help his people, his relatives, his parents, his wife and son. In any case, the Pitaka shows that the deity Brahma Sahampati appeared before him and besought him to preach the Truth, pleading that some men could understand.[7] So he surveyed the world with his mind's eye and saw the different natures of mankind like the three kinds of lotuses: some born in the water, grown up in the water, do not rise above the water but thrive hidden under the water; some born in the water, grown up in the water, reach to the surface while a third type grown up in the water, stands up out of the water and the water does not touch it. Thus did he perceive the world, and he said to Brahma:
> "Opened for those who hear are the doors of the Deathless, Brahma. Let them give forth their faith; Thinking of useless fatigue, Brahma, I have not preached Dhamma subline and excellent for men."[8]
> He thus considered those who were suitable to listen to his teaching first. It was very important and meaningful to decide this matter before doing anything. The teaching which the Buddha would deliver was new to the people in that time. If he could not gain success the first time, it would make him despair and the people would not be interested in his teaching in the future. So it was necessary for him to think and consider. He first thought of his two teachers, Alara Kalama and Uddaka Ramaputta. But both of them had recently died. Then he thought further of the other five monks, or "Pancavaggiyas", who had been with him and left him when he had begun to take food after giving up his severe self-mortification. They were now at Benares in the Deer Park, "Isipatana". There would be the questions such as "why did he not teach the people in Rajagaha first?", or "Was it necessary for him to go to Benares which was more than 150 miles from Rajagaha?". He must have planned thoroughly. The reason is as I have mentioned above. And the other reason is that Benares was the center of Brahmanism and Jainism, and was the vassal of king Pasenadi of Kosala. If he could convert the five monks, it would mean that his enlightenment was not useless and not unattainable for others too. And, if his purpose was successful, he could have an opportunity to spread his doctrine to the people easily. If he could convert the people and the king of that kingdom, he could see the goal of the independence of his kingdom clearly. So, after remaining awhile at Uruvela, he started for Benares. On the way, he met a naked ascetic, but he did not teach him.[9] He had to work according to his plan.
> When he reached Isipatana, the Deer Park, the five monks, Pancavaggiyas, showed an unsuitable attitude to him. It was because they believed that only self-mortification was the way to enlightenment. However, the Buddha tried to explain to them that he was now the Enlightened One and had come to preach of them how to gain enlightenment. At last, they believed and began to listen to him.
> The first sermon which the Buddha preached to the five monks was called "Dhammacakkappavattana Sutta." The gist of that sermon is that one must avoid the extremes of either self-mortification or self-indulgence. Next, one must practise the "Middle Way" which consists of the eightfold path. And then the Buddha enunciated the Four Noble Truths of the nature of suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the method of bringing about that cessation.[10] At the end of sermon, one of these five monks, named Kondanna, understood the sermon by gaining the pure or spotless Eye of Truth, Dhamma-Cakkhu. This monk thus was the first disciple who gained the Dhamma-Cakkhu, or the pure Eye of Truth.
> No God; No Paramatman; Anatta.
> The Buddha, then, formally admitted these five monks as the first members of the Sangha. He explained to them that there was no such thing as "Self" or "Soul" - a permanent substantial entity.
> There was only action, but no agent or agency. It was very bold statement at that time -- the time of the glory of Brahmanism animism.
> In Brahmanism there is "Paramatman" the Supreme Self, from which everything comes and there is Brahma, the Supreme God who created the world and everything in the world. Everything depends on Him. But the Buddha refused "Self" -- Atta or Atman. It meant that he refused Paramatman or God, the Creator too. Though in Buddhism, even today, there are Brahmas, there is no Paramatman or Brahma the Supreme God in the sense of Brahmanism. They are only the deities or the beings of the higher worlds. Being is only the physic-psychical organism. "It does not depend upon Self or Paramatman. It is only a series of physical states and of states of consciousness generated in succession, depending one upon another, although each of them lasts only for a moment."[11] According to Anatta-lakkhana Sutta, the Buddha explained clearly about Anatta or Non-self. He analyzed the self into five elements: the body, sensation, perception, volition, and consciousness. Each of these is liable to change or sickness and pain, and so cannot be called the Self. If it were the self, it would not be subject to sickness, and it would be possible to say "let my body, and so on, he thus, let not be thus." All of the five above mentioned elements are impermanent, painful, and subject to change. Therefore whatever these five elements, past, present or future, internal or external, gross or subtle, low or eminent, far or near, all are not mine, not these are I, not mine are the Self.[12]
> There may be a question that if there is no Permanent Soul or Self, who will receive the fruits of the action? In Buddhism, every action has reaction. One must reap the fruits of whatever he has sown. When everything is Anatta, how will the result of that action be gained? The reply to this question depends on the "Law of Action" -- the Kammic Law.
> Kammic Law
> Why, it may be questioned, should one be an inferior and another a superior? Why should one be sick and infirm, and another strong and healthy; one handsome and another ugly and so on? Is it due to the work of blind chance or accident? There is nothing in this world that happens by blind chance or accident. Does it depend on God or Brahma? There is no God or Brahma, the Creator, in Buddhism. "According to Buddhism, this variation is due not only to heredity and environment, but also to our own Kamma, or in other world, to our own inherited past actions and present deeds. We ourselves are responsible for our own deeds, happiness and misery. We build our own hells. We create our own heavens. We are the architects of our own fate."[13]
> As the Buddha replied to the young man named Subha as:
> "Deeds are one's own, brahman youth, beings are heirs to deeds, deeds are the matrix, deeds are the kins, deeds are the arbiters. Deeds divide beings, that is say by lowness and excellence."[14]
> In connection with variation the Atthasalini States:
> "By Kamma the world moves,
> By Kamma men live,
> And by Kamma are being bound,
> As by its pin the rolling chariot wheel.
> By Kamma one attains glory and praise,
> By Kamma bondage, ruin, tyranny,
> Knowing that Kamma bears manifold.
> Why say ye, 'In the world no Kamma is?"[15]
> Inherent in Kamma is the power of producing its due effect. The cause produces the effect; the effect explains the cause. The effect already blooms in the cause. As long as this Kammic force exists, there is rebirth, for beings are merely the visible manifestation of this visible Kammic force. Death is nothing but the temporary end of this temporary phenomenon. It is not the complete annihilation of this so-called being. The organic life has ceased, but the Kammic force which hitherto actuated it has not been destroyed. As the Kammic force remains entirely undisturbed by the disintegration of the fleeting body, the passing away of the present consciousness only conditions a fresh one in another birth.[16] This is Kammic Law is contrary to the doctrine of Brahmanism so far.
> Buddhism against Brahmanism.
> There are so many different ways of contrasting between Buddhism and Brahmanism. The most important characteristic doctrine of Brahmanism is the transmigration of the soul or reincarnation. Brahmanism believes that when the body breaks up at death, there is something that passes on and migrates to another equally transitory tenement. The idea underlying the transmigration theory is that every state which we call existence must come to an end. Brahmans think that there is something which eternally manifests itself in perishable form but does not perish with them any more than water does when a pitcher is broken.
> The Buddhist theory of rebirth is somewhat different as I have mentioned above. Life is like fire; its very nature is to burn its fuel. When one body dies, it is as if one piece of fuel were burnt: the vital process passes on and recommences in another, and so long as there is desire of life (Tanha), the provision of fuel fails not. There is no Universal Soul (Paramatman) for the individual soul to enter. It is only Anatta While Brahmans believe in the existence of an atman or soul, the Buddhists deny the existence of a soul in Toto. This is one of the important contradistinctions between Buddhism and Brahmanism.
> The other essential difference is that Brahmanism teaches the people to believe in Brahma, the Supreme God or the Creator of everything and to pray to Him: our lives depend on the line of destiny marked by Brahma. But Buddhism, on the contrary, teaches the people to believe in their own action (Kamma): we ourselves are responsible for our own action, our own lives as I have mentioned in the section above on "Kammic Law."
> The other points of contrast are the caste system and the status of the women in societies. In Brahmanism, the people were divided into four castes or "Vannas": Brahmans, Khattiya (Kshatriyas), Vessa (Vaisyas), and Sudda (Sudra); but in Buddhism there is no caste at all. Everyone has equality. They are only different by Kamma. Anyone has a chance to elevate himself in accordance with his action and wishes. Furthermore, the women in Brahmanic society are evaluated as only men's property. Both of these latter points I shall mention in the next section.
> From these points of view, we can see the fighting between Buddhism and Brahmanism, strictly speaking between the religions of the Mongoloids and the Arayans, in the fields of morality and social welfare. They fought each other all the time, both secretly and openly.
> No caste; No race; Universal equality.
> It was the Buddha who first abolished slavery and vehemently protested against the degrading caste-system of Brahmanism which was firmly rooted in India. In Buddhism, it is not by mere birth, one becomes either an out caste or a Brahman, but by one's action or Kamma Caste, colour or race does not preclude one from becoming a Buddhist or entering the Order. So the portals of Buddhism were open wide to all, irrespective of race, caste, colour, rank, or nationality, just as the water from several rivers goes to the same ocean, it becomes only one unique, so the people from different casters and nations come to the same Buddhism, they are all Buddhists equally. Particularly in the Order, they respect each other following seniority in the Vinaya, knowledge, and ability -- not caste, race, and nation. Just as the great ocean has only one taste, the taste of salt; so has Buddhism only one taste, the taste of Salvation.
> It is the Buddhist Metta or loving-kindness that attempts to break all the barriers which separate one from another as in Brahmanism. There is no reason to keep aloof from others merely because they belong to another caste or another nationality. Buddhism is not confined to any country or any particular nation. It is universal. Buddhism has no idea of establishing the brotherhood of all living beings. Buddhism is unique, mainly owing to its rationality, practicability, efficacy, and universality. It is noblest of all unifying influences and the only lever that can uplift the world. So it is very contrary to Brahmanism.
> Uplift the status of women.
> Let us imagine the status of women in the days before the Buddha's time. We will see that the women were not different from slaves and were only the property of men. According to Manu, they were declared to have no property; the wealth which they earned was acquired for the men to whom they belonged.[17] They had no rights in their societies. They had no chance to study, particularly in three Vedas. But in the time of the Buddha, women played a considerable part in the entourage of the Buddha. The Buddha admitted that they were capable of attaining Arahatship. The work of supplying the Order with food and raiment, naturally fell largely to pious matrons, and their attentive forethought delighted to provide the monks those comforts which might be accepted but not asked for. The prominent among such donors was Visakha who donated the Pubbaram to the Sangha.
> The most important point was the admission of women to the Order. At first, the Buddha did not admit them. The story of the admission of women to the Order is as follows: When the Buddha was visiting Kapilavatthu, the capital of Sakka kingdom, for the second time, his aunt and foster mother named Mahapajapati trice begged him to grant the admission of women to the Order, she was trice refused and went away in tears. Then she and a number of Sakyan women, shaving their hair and wearing yellow robes, followed him to Vesali and stood in the entrance of the Kutagara Hall with swollen feet, and all covered with dust and looking very sorrowful. Ananda, who had pity on her, submitted her request to the Buddha, but received a triple refusal. But he was not to be denied and urged that the Buddha admit women capable of attaining Arahatship and that it was unjust to deny the blessings of religion to one who had suckled him. At last, the Buddha yielded.
> This was a very difficult problem for the Buddha. It was a very good idea but he did not hasten to admit the women to the Order. If he had, it would not have been at all good for him. First of all, there might be someone would think that the Buddha might not be an Arahant, for he felt an interest in women. Secondly, the women could not protect themselves from danger, particularly bad men. It would add the burden the monks in this case, since the Bhikkhunis or nuns were not allowed to live separately from the monks' temple. Thirdly, if it was necessary that they lived in the same compound with the monks, it might afford opportunity for other religions which were opposing Buddhism, particularly Brahmanism, to take an attack on Buddhism. And last but not least, it upset the social system of Brahmanism. In this way, the women in Brahmanic societies would come to be Buddhists more and more. It would make the Brahmanic system unsteadfast. So the Brahmans might thwart by all means, and it would be difficult for him to spread his new doctrine. It also meant that his plan for his kingdom's independence might be unsuccessful. He thus had to proceed carefully. In the end, his timing took effect beyond his expectation.
> In fact, he wanted to sound out the reaction of the Brahmans first. For the news of Pajapati about her request for ordination spread everywhere. What would the Brahmans do? Nothing happened. So the Buddha decided to admit her and her companying Sakyan women to the Order as she had requested. However, there were the provisions for the Bhikkhunis' lower status, called the "Eight Garudhammas." Pajapati and her company professed the provisions. It looked like he did not satisfy to receive the women in the Order, for it meant he upset the Brahman's system. He should not do anything which would shake the hearts of the opposing side too much. He tried to keep away from attacking as much as possible, except in the inevitable cases.
> By directing his affairs profoundly, Brahmans were not angry with him, and the women had an opportunity to be the Bhikkhunis. The Buddha praised them according to their ability as monks or Bhikkhus, and praised the Upasikas as well as the Upasaka. He was not partial. He did not think about their previous castes, their ability only was important to him. This is the other way in which the Buddha could upset Brahmanism.
> The intellectual war between the conqueror and the conquered.
> Though the Buddha was not a politician, his activities looked like those of the politicians. Though he was not a warrior, his deeds looked like those of the warriors. He held in his mind the aim of liberating his kingdom and his people from the yoke of Kosala. How could he do so if he did not play roles like this? The victory by fighting his only temporary. The conquered must try by all means to upset the power of the conqueror. The latter cannot sleep happily, he must be on the lookout the whole time.
> One who wins must encounter revenge, and one who is defeated sleeps unhappily. The Buddha knew that he could not liberate his kingdom this way. The only way which would be safe for him and his people was to liberate in the other way -- the intellectual way only, not the military. Only in this way, could the conqueror be made to feel that he must not have really been conquered.
> So after his enlightenment, the Buddha went to Benares for his first sermon. Benares was the capital of Kasi which was part of Kosala at that time. Besides the five monks at Isipatana, he was able to convert many prominent young men such as Yasa and his friends. On the way he returned to R jagaha, he converted the thirty young princes who were the halfbrothers of King Pasenadi. This was a victory of great importance. It was the first step for him to enter the Kosala -- the kingdom of the Conqueror of this native kingdom.
> On the other hand, the Buddha must fight Brahmanism which had been rooted deeply in the soil of India for a long time. It was a genuine intellectual war. He tried to upset Brahmanism by all means all the time. He could convert many Brahmans and Brahmanis to be Buddhist. Many of them entered the Order to be Bhikkhus and Bhikkhunis, and were his important helpers in propagating his teachings. He used Brahmans to fight Brahmans. In this way he established Buddhism in the soil of India within a very short time. Among his disciples who were the Brahmans, the most renowned ones were Sariputta and Moggallana.
> Conqueror of the conquerors.
> Before the Buddha returned to Rajagaha, he told his sixty followers to go and preach for the welfare of the people; and let not two of them go by one way.[18] He himself went back to Uruvela near Rajagaha. This was the important plan of his liberation for both his country and other people from the human enemy and defilement. This was the best method of intellectual fighting we have seen in the history of the world.
> In this way he could upset Brahmanism which had a center in Benares only in a very short period. He himself returned to Uruvela which was the center of one sect of Brahmanism. It was situated by the bank of the Uruvela River. There were one thousand and three hermits there. The three brothers were the chiefs of these hermits. The eldest one named Uruvela Kassapa.
> The Buddha spent a long time there to convert these hermits. At last, he converted all of them. This was the first step for him to convert the king and the people in Magadha kingdom. It was because there were so many people, including King Bimbisara, who respected these hermits. They thought that these hermits were Arahants. And if the Buddha could make these hermits the follows, why couldn't he convert the people? So, after having converted all hermits, he went to Rajagaha. But he did not enter the city, only stayed at a palm grove about six miles from the capital. King Bimbisara once told the Buddha to come to teach him, whenever he had become enlightened. Now he had come, what would Bimbisara do? If Bimbisara invited him truly from the bottom of his heart, he would undoubtedly come to see the Buddha. At last, having known that the Buddha accompanied by a lot of monks had been stating in the palm grove near his capital, Bimbisara came out to see him, accompanied by his officials and a lot of people. When the people saw the Buddha and Kassapa, they did not know whom was greater. But when Kassapa showed that he was the disciple, the people concentrated their interest on the Buddha. It was very easy for him to convert the King and the people.
> After having converted King Bimbisara and the people of Magadha, the Buddha went to Kosala Kingdom. This was the goal of his liberation his kingdom and people. The King of Kosala was a relative of the King of Magadha by marriage. So it was not so difficult for the Buddha to convert King Pasenadi of Kosala and the people there. And then Savatthi, the capital of Kosala, became the center of the Buddhist movement in those days. Anathapindika the millionaire and Visakha were the most prominent attendants. "Now, just as the Sakyans treat Tathagata (Buddha). For he thinks: Is not the Samana Gotama well born? Then I am not well born. The Samana Gotama is strong, I am weak. He is attractive, I am not comely, the Samana Gotama has great influence, I have but little influence."[19] Though King Pasenadi was the conqueror of Sakyans' kingdom, nevertheless the Buddha, the son of Sakyans, now could conquer him, and so many people of many kingdoms of India. King Pasenadi and King Bimbisara were the Conquerors only inside their kingdom, but the Buddha was the Conqueror of the conquerors entirely. It was the absolute conquest. He made a conquest over not merely the Indian people, but his influence has been prevailing over the whole world.
> Forty-five years of preaching and fighting
> From the age of thirty-five to eighty, the Buddha, after his enlightenment, went from place to place and from town to town, preaching his Dhamma or new doctrine -- the doctrine of Kamma, the Law of Inter-related Cessation. He fought for the revival of his relatives and mankind. He taught whatever he knew and practised. His teaching was not beyond the ability of mankind to understand. Everyone had a right to think, to believe, and to practise. He taught everyone to think first and then believe and practise. He merely pointed to be happy must purify himself, as no one else could help him. He must rely on himself, not upon God, Brahma, or others.[20]
> The Buddha wanted everyone to be as his own refuge, his own lamp. It is only one's self who will be one's friend until one dies. Only one's self and the Truth are the permanent refuges for one's self. Others, such as parents, relatives and so on, are only temporary refuges.
> For forth-five years, the Buddha wandered to nearly every city in Northen India or Majjhimapadesa preaching his Dhamma and obliterating the power of Aryans' faith at the same time. He was able to convert many people from every caste and class, from kings and Brahmans to folk-people. He had a very good plan of preaching. At first, he usually converted the chiefs of various religious communities, and the kings or headmen.
> It was because the Warriors and the Brahmans were the competitors to each other all of the time. The kings usually were the chief leaders of the people in governing and fighting. But the Brahmans were the leaders of performing ceremonies and were the teachers of the kings too. And they thought that they were the purest caste and descended from the Brahma, the Creator of the world. However, in the time of the Buddha, the Warriors' caste was the highest and most powerful. As the Buddha said to Vasettha and Bharadvaja in Agganna Sutta.
> "The Khattiya is the best among this folk
> Who put their trust in lineage."[21]
> When the Buddha wanted to upset Brahmanism, he usually approached the warriors such as King Pasenadi and King Bimbisara, etc.. He did not try to make himself the enemy of any person or community, particularly the warriors. He usually won the hearts of the people only by the way of Dhamma or loving-kindness. He was very clever in the art of conquering the hearts of every class and caste of the people. He was praised not only by his disciples, even though the members of the other religions had praised him. According to Culasaccaka Sutta of Majjhima Nikaya, Saccaka, the son of Jains, confessed to the Buddha as:
> "Good Gotama, I was arrogant, I was presumptuous, in that I deemed I could assail the revered Gotama, speech by speech. Good Gotama, there might be safety a man assailing a rutting elephant, but there could be no safety for a man assailing the revered Gotama. Good Gotama, there might be safety for a man assailing a blazing mass of fire ¡|¡| a deadly poisonous snake, but there could be no safety for a man assailing the revered Gotama."[22]
> In only forty-five years of his preaching, the Buddha unexpectedly established the greatest and most steadfast community of Buddhist Kingdom among the Brahmanic soil of India.
> Entry into Nirvana.
> When the Buddha was seventy-nine years old, he was in Savatthi, the capital of Kosala. He knew himself to be too old to work for the welfare of the people. Death would come to him soon. He decided to go to enter Nirvana in his relative's independent kingdom - the kingdom of the Mallas of Kusinara. One might ask why did he not go to his native kingdom, Sakka? It was because Sakka Kingdom was the vassal of Kosala. So it was not suitable for him, the Buddha, to go to enter Nirvana there. Though the Mallas were not his relatives directly, they were of the Mongoloid race like him. So they were like his relatives. Mallas' kingdom was also one of the sixteen kingdoms in those days. Furthermore, Kusinara, the capital of Malla, had been the capital of the seven Universal Monarches, the Cakravartins, of the ancient time, and it was called "Kusavati" in the time of Sudassana, the last Universal Monarch, the Cakravartin.[23] According to Mahasudassana Sutta, the Buddha was that Cakravartin named Sudassana of Kusavati.[24] So it meant that he went to enter into Nirvana in his kingdom of the ancient time.
> Accompanied by the venerable Ananda and a great company of Bhikkhus, the Buddha wanted from Savatthi to Rajagaha, Vesali, and Kusinara respectively. It was a very long journey and it made him very tired. He spent more than one year wandering from Savatthi to Kusinara. It was very difficult for him, the aged one, to walk. But his heart was so strong. He tried his best to wander from place to place and at the same time he preached to the monks and people wherever he went.
> When he dwelt in Rajagaha, on the hill called Gijjhakuta, he told the monks the conditions of welfare of a community which was composed of seven conditions, such as meeting together in concord, rising in concord and carrying out in concord the duties of the Order, etc. So long as the seven conditions continued to exist among the monks, so long as they were well - instructed in these conditions, so long may the monks be expected not to decline, but to prosper.[25] It was a very useful principle for the welfare and survival of the community.
> At last, in the full moon day of Visakha, 543 B.C., the Buddha reached the Sala Grove of the Mallas, on the side of the river Hiranyavati. He told Ananda to spread out for him a couch with its head to the north, between the twin Sala trees and then laid down on his right side, with one leg resting on the other. It was called "Sihaseyya", or the lying of the lion.
> He was so weary but continued working for mankind until the last second of his life. He told Ananda in detail what should be done to his body after his entering into Nirvana. He gave opportunity to the monks to ask him whatever they were doubtful about. He preached to Subbadda, the wonderer, the last disciple who was converted by him. He gave a chance to the Mallas to come to see him. And at last, he addressed the monks and said:
> "Behold now, brethren, I exhort you, saying; - 'Decay is inherent in all component things: Work out your salvation with diligent"[26]
> These were the last words of the Buddha -- the Great Reformer of the word, the Great Revolutionist by peaceful methods. He worked like a lion among the deers, and when he died, he died like a lion too. His life was full of deeds. He worked and worked until he entered into Nirvana. He died as the Conqueror, the Universal Monarch -- Cakravartin.
> The Last Victory.
> After the Buddha had entered Nirvana, Ananda told the Mallas, what to do with the remains just as the Buddha had told him. The Mallas of Kusinara treated his remains like that of Cakravartin by wrapping it in a new cloth, then wrapped it in carded cotton wool. They wrapped the body of the Buddha in five hundred successive layers of each respective kind. Then they placed the body in an iron vessel of oil, and covered that close up with another iron vessel of oil. They then built a funeral pyre of all kinds of perfumes, and upon it they placed the body of the Exalted One.[27] On the eighth day after the full moon day of Visakha, the body of the Exalted One was burnt at the Makutababdhana. After cremation, the Mallas surrounded the relics of the Buddha in their council hall, and there they paid honour, reverence, and respect to them by all means for seven days.
> When the news of Buddha entering into Nirvana had spread in all directions, there were many kings and headmen of many kingdom, who, after having heard this news, sent messengers to the Mallas to receive portions of the relics of the Buddha.[28] At first the Mallas would not give away any part of the relics to anyone. Those kings and headmen began to fight for the relics. At last, Dona, the Brahman, mediated and conciliated those assembled crowds, and then divided the relics equally into eight parts with fair division. And he, himself asked for the vessel which he used to measure the relics. Soon after the Moriyas of Pipphalivana heard the news of the Buddha's entering into Nirvana, and sent a messenger to Mallas. They could take away only the embers.[29]
> All of them put up the sacred cairns of Thupas over the relics of the Buddha and celebrated. There were eight cairns for the relics, and one for the vessel and one for the embers.[30] So there were "Stupas" of the Buddha's relics in many places and in many kingdoms in India. Not only he himself, but even his relics and embers were meaningful to the Buddhists, the people of all casters of India in those day. The great kings and many chief leaders worshipped his relics. This was his last victory, the victory after death. Now he was the Cakravartin, the Supreme Monarch in the Brahmanic concept. He was recognized by all people including Brahmans as the Cakravartin.
> If the Buddha had entered into Nirvana in a great city such as Rajagaha or Savatthi as Ananda had suggested, his body might not be done like that of the Cakravartin, and his relics would not spread to the other kingdoms. The great kings like Ajatasattu and the King of Kosala would certainly not have consent to divide the relics with anyone. And doubtless no one would have dared to fight with them. In this way, the Buddha's relics would have remained only in a great city such as Rajagaha. It was his last but not the least of his plans. Everyone worshipped his relics as they were the most valuable property of the whole Buddhist world. He was the Cakravartin, the Universal Monarch, although he was once just an ordinary king. [The end]
> Notes:
> 1. "Lakkhana Sutta", Sacred Books of the Buddhists, Vol. IV, Dialogues of the Buddha, Part III, translated by T.W. Rhys Davids and C.A.F. Rhys Davids, London: Published for the Pali Text Society by Luzac & Company LTd., 1975, p.138.
> 2. "Agganna Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part III, p.80.
> 3. "Lakkhana Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part III, p.137.
> 4. "Ariyapariyesana Sutta", The Middle Length Sayings, Vol. I, tr. by I.B. Horner, London: Luza & Company Ltd., 1954, p.207; "Mahasaccaka Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. I,p.295; "Bodhirajakumara Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.281; "Sangarava Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.401.
> 5. "Ariyapariyesana Sutta", The Middle Length Sayings, Vol. I, pp.207-208; "Bodhirajakumara Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.281; "Sangarava Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.401; "Mahasaccaka Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. I, p.295.
> 6. "Mahasihanada Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. I, pp.91-110.
> 7. "Ariyapariyesana Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. I, pp.214-15; "Bodhirajakumara Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.281.
> 8. "Ariyapariyesana Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. I , pp.213; "Bodhirajakumara Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.281.
> 9. "Ariyapariyesana Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. I, pp.214-15; "Bodhirajakumara Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. II, p.281; "Mahavagga", The Book of the Discipline. Vol. IV, tr. by I. B. Horner, London: Luzac & Company Ltd., 1951, pp.11-2.
> 10. "Mahavagga", The Book of the Discipline. Vol. IV, pp.15-8.
> 11. L. De La Valle Poussin, The Way to Nirvana, London: Cambridge University Press, 1917, p.53.
> 12. "Mahavagga", The Book of the Discipline. Vol. IV, pp.19-21.
> 13. Narada Thera, Buddhism in a Nutshell, Colombo: the Ceylon Daily News, Lake House, 1954, p.22.
> 14. "Culakammavibhanga Sutta", M.L.S. Vol. III, tr. I.B. Horner, London: Luzac & Company Ltd., 1959, pp.249 and 253.
> 15. Attasalini, The Expositor Vol. I, tr. by Maung Tin, London: the Oxford University Press, 1920, p.88.
> 16. Narada Thera, Buddhism in a Nutshell, pp.24-5.
> 17. Graves Chamney Haughton, Manava-Dharma-Sastra, or The Institutes of Manu, London: Cox and Baylis, 1925, Vol. II, ch. VIII, p.286.
> 18. "Mahavagga", The Book of the Discipline, Vol. IV, p.80.
> 19. "Agganna Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part IV, tr. by T.W. Rhys Davids, London: Luzac & Company Ltd., 1921, p.80.
> 20. "Mahaparinibbana Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II, tr. by T.W. Rhys Davids and C.A.F. Rhys Davids, London: Luzac & Company Ltd., 1959, p.108.
> 21. "Agganna sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part IV, p.94.
> 22. "Culasaccaka Sutta" M.L.S. Vol. I, pp.289-90.
> 23. "Mahaparinibbana Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II, tr. by T.W. and C.A.F. Rhys Davids, London: Luzac & Company Ltd., 1959, p.108.
> 24. "Mahaparinibbana Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II, pp.199-232.
> 25. "Mahaparinibbana Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II, pp.78-85.
> 26. "Mahaparinibbana Sutta", Dialogues of the Buddha, Part II, p.178.
> 27. Ibid. pp.182-83.
> 28. Ibid. pp.187-90.
> 29. Ibid. pp.189-90.
> 30. Ibid. pp.190-91.
> 
> Updated: January 4, 2001
> Copyright 2001 The Research Institute for Pali Literature*




this was buddha's disciple:






he was same as the original people of himalaya region and its foothills, i.e. NEPAL which are the following. kirat people:


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## Joeblow

@pehgaam e mohabbat Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama) was born in what is now Nepal. Buddhism (the religion) came about after he attained enlightenment at Bodh Gaya. That's why it is one of four most important sites in Buddhism.


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## Steakhouse

Buddha wasn't born in India because there was no India in Buddha time, in modern time Buddha enlightened in the area currently know as India. Buddha is Nepalese and should be know as a Nepal favorite son.i



dharamveer said:


> Tibet is Indian territory.
> 
> India is Tibet, Tibet is India. China civilization is restricted to just eastern coast, which Indian spiritual thoughts Buddhism a spin of Dharmic religion of India dominated for more than 2 millennia. Hence a lot less evolved civilization akin to Barbaric Arabic cult practices of Islam although more advanced.






Tibet is India? Who are you fooling?

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## Joeblow

beijingwalker said:


> Come and take it



Bring an extra chair and some popcorn, I wanna be there when that dude tries


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## dlclong

look some “Indians” here foolish, ignorant.

The so-called "India" is simply not a country, just as the same as the American continent. Until the arrival of Western settlers, it has never been unified before. 

BTW, Buddhism was born in Nepal, not India.

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## Steakhouse

dharamveer said:


> just a matter of time, why do you think Tibetan parliament in India is hosted.





Come on, India can't defeat China in any war.


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## cirr

Jayanta said:


> *Read some history first. *If there was no India...there was no China too. The Chinese map has changed over centuries...you cannot just take the golden age map and claim territories. In that case the Mongols can cite Chengiz Khan and demand for half of Eurasia, Indians can cite Ashoka and claim for an India from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka.



The Chinese map might have changed from time to time，but the country has always been under a central government（in name at times）since the Qin Dynasty。

The same can not be said about India，nor any european country for that matter，untill the very recent（comparably speaking）

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## Steakhouse

dharamveer said:


> Although its no point chatting to a cheerleader, but there is no need to defeat, China's policies are itself leading it to defeat.





I thought you said India will annex Tibet from China. How it possible to annex without defeat China in a war.


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## cirr

dharamveer said:


> Although its no point chatting to a cheerleader, but there is no need to defeat, China's policies are itself leading it to defeat.



China's policies are making the country stronger and stronger。

You might have your own model of development，we have our own。

You are free to choose a path of success that's in line with your national temperament、value、culture and history。

The same applies to China。

Let's just give each a bit more time and see how we end up in，say，2034. 

PS A word of advice。Don't copy the Chinese model which is unique and only suitable to China。

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## zhongdafeng

BoQ77 said:


> Calm down zhongdafeng, please !!!
> Just express your idea.



I said what many Chinese viewers want to say. Some of them have much more to say on this point, but their english may not be good ennough to do that.

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## HariPrasad

zhongdafeng said:


> part of india? ridiculous!!!!




Yes, Like Sikkim.

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## zhongdafeng

HariPrasad said:


> Yes, Like Sikkim.


Tibet is not Sikkim, you can bully and enslave a small guy but you can not conqer a giant.

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## HariPrasad

zhongdafeng said:


> Tibet is not Sikkim, you can bully and enslave a small guy but you can not conqer a giant.



You have bullied Tibet. Sikkim integrated with India willfully.

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## zhongdafeng

HariPrasad said:


> It doesn't matter whether china recognize s or Not. Assam is Indian territory from Ages. Asames Recognize themselves as Indian. These are 2 sufficient conditions.


There are not any armed rebellians in tibet . Only a few paid protestors. There are dozens of armed forces fighting for independence in NE of India, like the ULFA.

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## zhongdafeng

HariPrasad said:


> You have bullied Tibet. Sikkim integrated with India willfully.


And you think Tibetan people who are Mongoliod will "willful ly" joined you Indians who are darkish Caucasian? You think Dalailama Want to be aN indian? He just Hate the chiCom

besides, dalai doesn't speak for all Tibetan s


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## HariPrasad

zhongdafeng said:


> And you think Tibetan people who are Mongoliod will "willful ly" joined you Indians who are darkish Caucasian? You think Dalailama Want to be aN indian? He just Hate the chiCom




Dalai Lama himself said that he has become an indian now. Integrating force in India is not skin color (only Idiots think that) but Indian ethos Look what Dalai Lama said.

I am messenger of India's compassion, honesty: Dalai Lama - Firstpost


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## kankan326

HariPrasad said:


> Dalai Lama himself said that he has become an indian now. Integrating force in India is not skin color (only Idiots think that) but Indian ethos Look what Dalai Lama said.
> 
> I am messenger of India's compassion, honesty: Dalai Lama - Firstpost


Dollar Lama would like to say anything, for dollars.

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## magic-007

I have seen that pictures , plese go on


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## HariPrasad

kankan326 said:


> Dollar Lama would like to say anything, for dollars




Dollar Chinese will claim anything for Dollar.


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## zhongdafeng

[quote="HariPrasad, post: 62982
Yes,but then he also says he doesn't pursue independence but demands more rights for his people. That's why we do not trust him. Forget about what he said. the basic story is that he knew Chicom would carry out a revolution against him, so he rebelled and failed and left. Not he identify himself with Indians


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## magic-007

HariPrasad said:


> But Tibetans do not accept China as their own country. Historically Tibet was never a part of China nor Tibet integrated with china willfully.


 DO YOU indian have more close relationship with tipet/xizang than china in acient times ? YOU actually speak this kind of words ,living in north-east india's people unwilling to be indian, sir ,Don't you know? ,newspapers speak

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## magic-007

Jayanta said:


> *Read some history first. *If there was no India...there was no China too. The Chinese map has changed over centuries...you cannot just take the golden age map and claim territories. In that case the Mongols can cite Chengiz Khan and demand for half of Eurasia, Indians can cite Ashoka and claim for an India from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka.


well .Ireland is awfully pleased to hear you english say that .we are not get this point(golden age map) into the topic all the time,and some western miedia have been geting tibet or mainland china into topic. sir


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## dlclong

indian Even dont have a complete ancient history book, indians even can not call out every king or emperor name every period , . Relies entirely on myths obscenity history，
The so-called ”Bharata“, from fairy tales, Only a myth refers to a place in the subcontinent of South Asia,,Not one called "india" unified kingdom. Some Indians even imagine it ranges from Indonesia, Malaysia extended to Iran Afghanistan .LOL


In addition, for everyone to see, the Indian annexation of thekingdom of Sikkim, king, royal family photos, is entirely China's Qing Dynasty clothing, Sikkim was once a vassal of China, India annexed in 1975


















In this theme, u can clearly see Indian‘s ignorance and greed



dharamveer said:


> Tibet is Indian territory.
> 
> India is Tibet, Tibet is India. China civilization is restricted to just eastern coast, which Indian spiritual thoughts Buddhism a spin of Dharmic religion of India dominated for more than 2 millennia. Hence a lot less evolved civilization akin to Barbaric Arabic cult practices of Islam although more advanced.





Jayanta said:


> *Read some history first. *If there was no India...there was no China too. The Chinese map has changed over centuries...you cannot just take the golden age map and claim territories. In that case the Mongols can cite Chengiz Khan and demand for half of Eurasia, Indians can cite Ashoka and claim for an India from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka.





dharamveer said:


> just a matter of time, why do you think Tibetan parliament in India is hosted.
> 
> 
> 
> haha there was actually no Nepal then, it was Bharat, Aryavrata the land of noble man, which time to time united by a single powerful empire, Mauryas, Guptas, Marathas are one of the latest ones.
> Chinese civilization can only claim eastern strip of East Asia nothing else nothing more, and how can I even care of compare this so called chinese civilization who was so much influenced by Budhism, even so called Kung Fu is taught to chinese by Indian yogi who set up sholin to teach you guys how to keep oneself healthy akin to civilized people telling uncivilized people how to live life.

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## Tractor

He looks uncomfortable when this Indian lady toughly garbbed him.And there was also an Indian gentleman beside him.

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## dlclong

Tractor said:


> He looks uncomfortable when this Indian lady toughly garbbed him.And there was also an Indian gentleman beside him.


She is not indian woman, she is the Sikkim king’s American wife Cook

In 1963 March the prince Baden married America woman Hope Cook. In 1965, the Baden prince became king, Cook also became the queen. The picture is Cook.
















the king Baden His Majesty and
queen Cook and princess Yungchen










The king of Sikkim travel, passers-by stopped the hands of theliving to the king to salute












------------------------------




Sikkim was once Chinese vassal,

Seen from above,

Sikkim and India have no relationship,

Sikkim is the most similar to China.



HariPrasad said:


> Yes, Like Sikkim.


india Get out of Sikkim

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## zhongdafeng

Good, indian greed and ignorance are exposed

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## Kaniska

magic-007 said:


> DO YOU indian have more close relationship with tipet/xizang than china in acient times ? YOU actually speak this kind of words ,living in north-east india's people unwilling to be indian, sir ,Don't you know? ,newspapers speak



If you go by newspaper..then Tibet and Xinxiang are not willing to be a part of China's occupation..So do you like to respect wish of the people?


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## dlclong

Kaniska said:


> If you go by newspaper..then Tibet and Xinxiang are not willing to be a part of China's occupation..So do you like to respect wish of the people?


The Indians, have a look, how ugly you, slaughter Manipuri
The world should look at how the Indian genocide.！！
The India massacre in Northeast native of Mongolid race!

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## dlclong

The world should look at how the Indian genocide.--Manipuri！！！

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## Kaniska

dlclong said:


> The Indians, have a look, how ugly you, slaughter Manipuri
> The world should look at how the Indian genocide.！！
> View attachment 136533
> View attachment 136534
> View attachment 136535
> View attachment 136536
> View attachment 136537
> View attachment 136538
> View attachment 136539
> View attachment 136540
> View attachment 136541
> View attachment 136542



Again...you did not answer to my question...being me as a bad nation does not automatically translate it to you are being good to others...We know we are a improving nation...We are not complete in our aspiration of a truly peaceful nation inside and we admit about it....Being said about me, that again does not prove the fact that you can capture and occupy against the wish of the people who are not willing to be your part..


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## dlclong

The India massacre in Northeast native of Mongolid race!









The India massacre in Northeast native of Mongolia race

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## dlclong

Kaniska said:


> Again...you did not answer to my question...being me as a bad nation does not automatically translate it to you are being good to others...We know we are a improving nation...We are not complete in our aspiration of a truly peaceful nation inside and we admit about it....Being said about me, that again does not prove the fact that you can capture and occupy against the wish of the people who are not willing to be your part..


You Indians are best at lying, deceit, arrogance, ignorance. 
portrayed China as geography, put yourself into a paradise. 
China the worst place stronger than India. 

If india continue to greed, will eventually pay the price. 1962 The war is because of your advance policy, you are not only occupation of the disputed territory, and crossed the McMahon Line,Attempt to aggression China Tibet. 
Instead you say Chinese aggression, Oh, no more shameless than your government's

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## Kaniska

dlclong said:


> You Indians are best at lying, deceit, arrogance, ignorance.
> portrayed China as geography, put yourself into a paradise.
> China the worst place stronger than India.
> 
> If india continue to greed, will eventually pay the price. 1962 The war is because of your advance policy, you are not only occupation of the disputed territory, and crossed the McMahon Line,Attempt to aggression China Tibet.
> Instead you say Chinese aggression, Oh, no more shameless than your government's



Come on..as i told my earlier post...We are not perfect..But you are not answering the question..How can you be perfect when you are not respecting the will of the people of 2 regions and forcefully occupying them.


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## kankan326

dlclong said:


> The India massacre in Northeast native of Mongolid race!
> View attachment 136553
> View attachment 136554
> View attachment 136555
> The India massacre in Northeast native of Mongolia race


It's strange that the western medias put too many concerns on Tibet human right issues. Yet seems they don't care much worse human right tragedies in India. Thank God Tibet is controlled by China, not by India. It's a pure blessing for Tibetans.

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## magic-007

Kaniska said:


> If you go by newspaper..then Tibet and Xinxiang are not willing to be a part of China's occupation..So do you like to respect wish of the people?


I also do not want to be chinese, but can it represent all chinese do not want to be chinese? Most local people in north-easte india do not want to be indian at least . sir


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## zhongdafeng

Kaniska said:


> Again...you did not answer to my question...being me as a bad nation does not automatically translate it to you are being good to others...We know we are a improving nation...We are not complete in our aspiration of a truly peaceful nation inside and we admit about it....Being said about me, that again does not prove the fact that you can capture and occupy against the wish of the people who are not willing to be your part..


Let me aswer you. We admit that the Chicom has done a lot wrong. But now they are much better. What's more the Communist is much better to ethnic minorities than to Han people. They enjoy many favorable policy, they have no Birth Control. And they are less affected by Cultural Revolution, so they preserve their culture better.
Actually, we are no better than you. And you are no better than us. It's simply that you are too diverse, too different from each other, and the more different you are from each other, the more trouble there will be and the more oppression and rebellion there will be.
In china we don't have racial problem s, not because we are Morally better, But because we are of the same race.
Every country has its own problem, but because western media don't like Chicom, so they prefer to report Tibetan protesters, and choose to ignore the racial oppression in NE of India.


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## Tractor

dlclong said:


> She is not indian woman, she is the Sikkim king’s American wife


I have learnt it and no need to explain what she is just for that she could be an Indian in our eyes and had no chance to be considered as Chinese.


zhongdafeng said:


> Let me aswer you. We admit that the Chicom has done a lot wrong. But now they are much better. What's more the Communist is much better to ethnic minorities than to Han people. They enjoy many favorable policy, they have no Birth Control. And they are less affected by Cultural Revolution, so they preserve their culture better.
> Actually, we are no better than you. And you are no better than us. It's simply that you are too diverse, too different from each other, and the more different you are from each other, the more trouble there will be and the more oppression and rebellion there will be.
> In china we don't have racial problem s, not because we are Morally better, But because we are of the same race.
> Every country has its own problem, but because western media don't like Chicom, so they prefer to report Tibetan protesters, and choose to ignore the racial oppression in NE of India.


Indian generally are the same race with westerners and they have common wealth.Chicom is really not a matter in this matter.


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## zhongdafeng

As i said you are darkish Caucasian but the NE people s are Mongolion. So....


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## Tractor

zhongdafeng said:


> As i said you are darkish Caucasian but the NE people s are Mongolion. So....


Caucasian I know but darkish...no idea,may be Indo-european.Not all NE nations are mongolian but we Chinese have to know the fact that we have our large number relatives in India.


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## zhongdafeng

Even among indian race, you are much more different from each other than we are. Racial or ethnic diversity may be what you are proud of, but it surely will cause much trouble which means oppression and rebellion, even such an affluent society as the US can not be exempted from it.

By "darkish" , i mean "black", it's my coinage, euphemism, you know.

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## Tractor

zhongdafeng said:


> Even among indian race, you are much more different from each other than we are. Racial or ethnic diversity may be what you are proud of, but it surely will cause much trouble which means oppression and rebellion, even such an affluent society as the US can not be exempted from it.
> 
> By "darkish" , i mean "black", it's my coinage, euphemism, you know.


Indian race no different among themselves just non-indian race people I mean Mongolian are different from them.


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## zhongdafeng

Kaniska said:


> If you go by newspaper..then Tibet and Xinxiang are not willing to be a part of China's occupation..So do you like to respect wish of the people?


Do you respect the wishes of many NE people who demand (or fight wars for) independence?

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## zhongdafeng

Tractor said:


> Indian race no different among themselves just non-indian race people I mean Mongolian are different from them.


The difference may not be racial but be ethnic, linguistic, or even facial (even we foreigners may notice the difference by watching Bollywood and tellywood films)


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## magic-007

Deffrences between Yellow race and darkish race ,The former is of Mongolian ,but the later is of Indo-european,simple as that


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## Kaniska

zhongdafeng said:


> Let me aswer you. We admit that the Chicom has done a lot wrong. But now they are much better. What's more the Communist is much better to ethnic minorities than to Han people. They enjoy many favorable policy, they have no Birth Control. And they are less affected by Cultural Revolution, so they preserve their culture better.
> Actually, we are no better than you. And you are no better than us. It's simply that you are too diverse, too different from each other, and the more different you are from each other, the more trouble there will be and the more oppression and rebellion there will be.
> In china we don't have racial problem s, not because we are Morally better, But because we are of the same race.
> Every country has its own problem, but because western media don't like Chicom, so they prefer to report Tibetan protesters, and choose to ignore the racial oppression in NE of India.



Dude...Spot on...I am in same page with you...That is what exactly i am trying to say with last couple of posts in this topic..When i am asking about Tibet and other province, my intention is that no one is perfect...So why to point finger on each others...We have out issues with our society itself...India is worlds one of most of diverse nation on this earth...So we are a evolving society and we will keep on evolving ....Again, we accept our deficiency and try to improve...But our acceptance of our inefficiency and improvement should not be used by others as to show low to us...Because no one is perfect in this imperfect world..It is just a matter of who has intent to keep on improving ...


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## Götterdämmerung

Joeblow said:


> You know Buddhism came from India, right?



Lets pretend that Buddhism came from India, that still means nothing. Jesus came from Israel, does it mean that we in Europe owe Israel anything? What a stupid argument.

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## magic-007

Kaniska said:


> Dude...Spot on...I am in same page with you...That is what exactly i am trying to say with last couple of posts in this topic..When i am asking about Tibet and other province, my intention is that no one is perfect...So why to point finger on each others...We have out issues with our society itself...India is worlds one of most of diverse nation on this earth...So we are a evolving society and we will keep on evolving ....Again, we accept our deficiency and try to improve...But our acceptance of our inefficiency and improvement should not be used by others as to show low to us...Because no one is perfect in this imperfect world..It is just a matter of who has intent to keep on improving ...


I have to say that some indian show their arrogance and ignorance in this thread, they said something provoked chinese netizens,leave sb. feeling that is only key point in the thread .

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## Joeblow

Götterdämmerung said:


> Lets pretend that Buddhism came from India, that still means nothing. Jesus came from Israel, does it mean that we in Europe owe Israel anything? What a stupid argument.



How did you miss the part of post I was responding to where the poster said Indians were introduced to Buddhism by the British? It's right there as part of my post. Why would you even go off on your rant without reading that? What does that guy not knowing the basics of history have to do with Europeans owing Israel something?? For God's sake, read before posting idiotic responses.


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## zhongdafeng

Kaniska said:


> Dude...Spot on...I am in same page with you...That is what exactly i am trying to say with last couple of posts in this topic..When i am asking about Tibet and other province, my intention is that no one is perfect...So why to point finger on each others...We have out issues with our society itself...India is worlds one of most of diverse nation on this earth...So we are a evolving society and we will keep on evolving ....Again, we accept our deficiency and try to improve...But our acceptance of our inefficiency and improvement should not be used by others as to show low to us...Because no one is perfect in this imperfect world..It is just a matter of who has intent to keep on improving ...


It was indians who said they want Tibet, and indicated that we treated Tibetans badly. We never say we want Sikkim or Arsaam. It simply never occur to any Chinese to take a land of another race.
Actually, your racial and ethnic and linguistic diversity is just an indication to your greed and aggressive ness. you took many lands that belong to another people, or even another race.


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## zhongdafeng

Kaniska said:


> If you go by newspaper..then Tibet and Xinxiang are not willing to be a part of China's occupation..So do you like to respect wish of the people?


Let me answer this question again. I'll talk some sense into this Indian.
How do you know they are not willing to be a part of China?
Actually, the Tibetan peasants welcome the Communists who liberated them from serfdom. Tibetan serfs had been living a life worse than Han peasants. They are far better now than they were before. It's simply that the media you are exposed to won't tell you this.
Personally I don't agree with the way Chicom carried out the revolution, but it is our inner affairs, which no foreigners are allowed to point fingers at. Since you've already done that, then we will do what you did and point out that *there are more peoples in India who don't want to be part of Indian's occupation*, because the separatist movements in India are much more active, they occur not only in the states of NE, but also in states like TN, AP.

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## monkeynam2

dharamveer said:


> Tibet is Indian territory.
> 
> India is Tibet, Tibet is India. China civilization is restricted to just eastern coast, which Indian spiritual thoughts Buddhism a spin of Dharmic religion of India dominated for more than 2 millennia. Hence a lot less evolved civilization akin to Barbaric Arabic cult practices of Islam although more advanced.





dlclong said:


> The Indians, have a look, how ugly you, slaughter Manipuri
> The world should look at how the Indian genocide.！！
> The India massacre in Northeast native of Mongolid race!
> 
> 
> View attachment 136533
> View attachment 136534
> View attachment 136535
> View attachment 136536
> View attachment 136537
> View attachment 136538
> View attachment 136539
> View attachment 136540
> View attachment 136541
> View attachment 136542


Independent and welcome to join China

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## Kaniska

zhongdafeng said:


> It was indians who said they want Tibet, and indicated that we treated Tibetans badly. We never say we want Sikkim or Arsaam. It simply never occur to any Chinese to take a land of another race.
> Actually, your racial and ethnic and linguistic diversity is just an indication to your greed and aggressive ness. you took many lands that belong to another people, or even another race.



I agree with your observation that one of my Indian friend started talking about about Tibet....But again, India is a concept and nation with diversity..It is an aspiration society and a nation who thrives based on diversity and we are proud of it.....I do not agree with your perception about greedy or not...Because there can be reason to say that same thing for China with respect to Tibet...
You define your mindset that race should determine the boundary of a nation...But i do not agree to this concept..Because that notion may be suitable to you but it is not necessary that every one follow the same mindset...Then we may not have more than 100 countries in this world...But each country may not be with different race...



zhongdafeng said:


> Let me answer this question again. I'll talk some sense into this Indian.
> How do you know they are not willing to be a part of China?
> Actually, the Tibetan peasants welcome the Communists who liberated them from serfdom. Tibetan serfs had been living a life worse than Han peasants. They are far better now than they were before. It's simply that the media you are exposed to won't tell you this.
> Personally I don't agree with the way Chicom carried out the revolution, but it is our inner affairs, which no foreigners are allowed to point fingers at. Since you've already done that, then we will do what you did and point out that *there are more peoples in India who don't want to be part of Indian's occupation*, because the separatist movements in India are much more active, they occur not only in the states of NE, but also in states like TN, AP.



Again, i can say the same thing to you as you said to me...How do you think that many people in India would like to become separate....How closely integrated with Indian society in India itself...If my judgement about India is not acceptable to you then how come your judgement is valid when you also create impression based on media...At least our society is open and transparent and media is open for all...The same thing does not happen in China..You even control your internet and media access for your people...How do you know that whatever you understand about India or domestic news are valid when you do not even have access to open information about own nation?....


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## zhongdafeng

Kaniska said:


> I agree with your observation that one of my Indian friend started talking about about Tibet....But again, India is a concept and nation with diversity..It is an aspiration society and a nation who thrives based on diversity and we are proud of it.....I do not agree with your perception about greedy or not...Because there can be reason to say that same thing for China with respect to Tibet...
> You define your mindset that race should determine the boundary of a nation...But i do not agree to this concept..Because that notion may be suitable to you but it is not necessary that every one follow the same mindset...Then we may not have more than 100 countries in this world...But each country may not be with different race...
> 
> 
> 
> Again, i can say the same thing to you as you said to me...How do you think that many people in India would like to become separate....How closely integrated with Indian society in India itself...If my judgement about India is not acceptable to you then how come your judgement is valid when you also create impression based on media...At least our society is open and transparent and media is open for all...The same thing does not happen in China..You even control your internet and media access for your people...How do you know that whatever you understand about India or domestic news are valid when you do not even have access to open information about own nation?....


Keep this in mind: it was your Indian countryfellow that violated what should be observed, by aaccusing other countries. So we did the same. We are not interested in your internal affairs if you had not done that.
About your diversity, I want to say you will not thrive on it but lag behind because of it. Diversity means difference, difference causes division. A country can not rise up if it is always in quarrel with each other. That is why you are lagging behind.
About internet restrictions, i will say it's more of a economic move. And we benefit from it. So we have Baidu, QQ, Weibo, alibaba...in other aspects we are open as good as, if not more than you.

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## zhongdafeng

Besides, every country has some form of media control. Some has been doing it secretly like.....uncle sam.

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## zhongdafeng

"Media open for all"?
Lol, according to Transparency International, India is not more open or transparent than china . India ranked lower, more close to North Korea.

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## TaiShang

zhongdafeng said:


> Let me answer this question again. I'll talk some sense into this Indian.
> How do you know they are not willing to be a part of China?
> Actually, the Tibetan peasants welcome the Communists who liberated them from serfdom. Tibetan serfs had been living a life worse than Han peasants. They are far better now than they were before. It's simply that the media you are exposed to won't tell you this.
> Personally I don't agree with the way Chicom carried out the revolution, but it is our inner affairs, which no foreigners are allowed to point fingers at. Since you've already done that, then we will do what you did and point out that *there are more peoples in India who don't want to be part of Indian's occupation*, because the separatist movements in India are much more active, they occur not only in the states of NE, but also in states like TN, AP.





zhongdafeng said:


> Keep this in mind: it was your Indian countryfellow that violated what should be observed, by aaccusing other countries. So we did the same. We are not interested in your internal affairs if you had not done that.
> About your diversity, I want to say you will not thrive on it but lag behind because of it. Diversity means difference, difference causes division. A country can not rise up if it is always in quarrel with each other. That is why you are lagging behind.
> About internet restrictions, i will say it's more of a economic move. And we benefit from it. So we have Baidu, QQ, Weibo, alibaba...in other aspects we are open as good as, if not more than you.





zhongdafeng said:


> "Media open for all"?
> Lol, *according to Transparency International, India is not more open or transparent than china . India ranked lower, more close to North Korea*.



Excellent points, sirs! Thanks for an all-around education.


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## mike2000

kankan326 said:


> It's strange that the western medias put too many concerns on Tibet human right issues. Yet seems they don't care much worse human right tragedies in India. Thank God Tibet is controlled by China, not by India. It's a pure blessing for Tibetans.



Well even though i agree with you, i must say you have to understand geo politics. China at present is trying to challenge our position, and in a decade or two from now is the most likely country to challeneg the U.S/west in power/influence/dominance, so you expect us to just sit and watch ? of course we will look for ways to limit/delay/stop that from happening. As i said several times before, an established power will always try and undermine the upcoming one in every way possible irregardless of the country be it China, India, Turkey, Mexico, Russia etc doesnt matter. 

In this case India is still not powerful/strong enough for us to start undermining her growth, but whe it does become(i believe it will with time if everything goes well for her) then we and our media will not hesitate to start undermining her the same way we do with China and to some extent Russia today. India has still not choosen which side it wants to be in future, so we still give it the benefit of the doubt. I dont find anything wrong with that, call it hypocrisy or whatever you want, but this is how countries should behave to protect their interests and maintain their position. So for now expect our media to turn a blind eye to their own attrocities or whatever towards their restless region(whether its worse than China or not), but the day India will grow too big/powerful and if it chooses to side against us then things will turn ugly for her as well. But for now nothing much will happen.


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## Narashima

An anti-terrorism force including public security police and the armed police attend an 
anti-terrorism joint exercise in China's restive Xinjiang region. Photo: AFP

A new English-language magazine released by al-Qaeda describes China’s restive Xinjiang region as an “occupied Muslim land” to be “recovered [into] the shade of the Islamic Caliphate”.

Produced by the jihadist organisation’s As-Sahab media wing, the 117-page debut issue of _Resurgence _includes a feature titled “*Did You Know? 10 Facts About East Turkistan*,” referring to the name for Xinjiang used by those who advocate independence from China.

While much of the article is inaccurate – it claims, for example, that teaching the Quran is illegal in China (Islam is one of the country’s five recognised official religions) – *it shows how China’s actions in the region, such as encouraging the migration of Han Chinese into Xinjiang and restricting religious dress, are being used by jihadist organisations to confirm their belief that Muslims are under threat.*






 “Did You Know? 10 Facts About East Turkistan", in al-Qaeda's Resurgence magazine, 
claims that China carries out ethnic cleansing against Muslims.

Al-Qaeda is not the only jihadist organisation which has expressed an interest in the situation of Muslims in Xinjiang. In July, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the self-styled caliph of the Islamic State, also known as ISIS or ISIL, spoke of Muslim rights being “forcibly seized” in China in a call for Muslims around the world to pledge allegiance to him.

“Your brothers all over the world are waiting for your rescue, and are anticipating your brigades,” Baghdadi told his followers.

“In recent years [jihadist organisations] have expressed an interest in the alleged oppression of Xinjiang Uygurs by the Han Chinese,” Ahmed Hashim, a terrorism expert and associate international studies professor at Singapore’s Nanyang Technological University, told the _South China Morning Post_. “*China is being seen as an oppressive power as it grows in strength.*”

“*The contact between Uygur separatists and jihadists has been rather limited but is increasingly facilitated by Uzbek jihadists in recent years in remote regions of Pakistan*,” he said.

China has long maintained that separatist groups in Xinjiang have links to foreign jihadist organisations. After the September 11 terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, Beijing lobbied for the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM) to be placed on the United States’ terrorist watch list.




Paramilitary policemen with shields and batons patrol near the People's Square in Urumqi, 
Xinjiang region. Photo: AP

ETIM – which experts say is more of an umbrella term used by the Chinese government for a number of different groups, including the Turkestan Islamic Party (TIP), than an actual cohesive organisation – has been accused by Beijing of involvement in a number of terrorist incidents in recent years, including the Kunming Railway Station massacre in March which left 31 people dead and injured 141.

*While leaders of TIP, believed to be based in Pakistan’s lawless tribal region, have voiced support and even claimed credit for some attacks in China, *some have questioned the group’s ability to carry out terrorist plots thousands of kilometres away.

The influence of foreign jihadist organisations on events in Xinjiang has also been questioned. While al-Qaeda and Islamic State have begun using the situation there in their propaganda, experts argue that *the roots of the unrest ultimately lie in China’s policies in the region.*

“Identifying external ‘provocations’ remains important to the narrative about Uygurs perpetuated by the Chinese state,” Sean Roberts, director of international development studies at George Washington University’s Elliott School of International Affairs, told _Vice News_ last month.

Beijing, Roberts argues, believes its policies are “gracious and generous to the Uygurs and immune to criticism. Thus, if Uygurs are resisting the Chinese state, it must be due to external forces seeking to destabilise what is harmonious and prosperous.”

*“When the approach taken by the Chinese government is a total clampdown then people will go in more extreme directions, that’s a natural response and we’ve seen it in a number of other situations,”* Raffaello Pantucci, a senior research fellow at the Royal United Services Institute focusing on counter-terrorism and radicalisation, told the _Post_.

*“Historically though, extremist Uygur groups have never been able to get the global [jihadi] movement to do much more than talk about their problems,” he said. “There’s a lot of rhetoric but it doesn’t translate into action.”*

“The Chinese government has a tendency to say that any incident that takes place in China is affiliated to a foreign group, but it rarely goes into the particulars of who is behind and directing these plots," Pantucci added.




Policemen from the SWAT team practice during a drill in Urumqi, Xinjiang region. 
Photo: Reuters

“*China’s ongoing security crackdown in Xinjiang has forced the most militant Uygur separatists into volatile neighbouring countries, such as Pakistan, where they are forging strategic alliances with, and even leading, jihadist factions affiliated with al-Qaeda and the Taliban,*” wrote Philip Potter, an assistant professor of public policy and political science at the University of Michigan, in a paper published earlier this year.

The allure of jihadist organisations – particularly the Islamic State, which has proven itself adept at waging online propaganda and recruitment campaigns – is strong for disillusioned young people in countries all over the world.

The International Centre for the Study of Radicalisation at King’s College London estimates that around 74 nationalities are fighting under the black flag of the “Caliphate”, including more than 500 British militants.

In July, China’s former special envoy to the Middle East, Wu Sike, said that around 100 Chinese citizens are fighting with the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

*In an article last month, the state-run Global Times quoted an unnamed “anti-terrorist worker” as saying that Xinjiang militants who joined the Islamic State “not only want to get training in terrorist techniques, but also to expand their connections in international terrorist organisations through actual combat to gain support for escalation of terrorist activities in China.”*

*Uygur exile groups complain that Beijing already exaggerates the threat posed by terrorism to justify harsh crackdowns in Xinjiang.*





 Uighur academic Ilham Tohti sits during his trial on separatism charges in Urumqi, 
Xinjiang region. Photo: CCTV

The concern for many observers is that as more and more moderate groups and intellectuals are silenced – such as Ilham Tohti, an economics professor and advocate for Uygur rights who was jailed for life by a Xinjiang court in September – foreign jihadist organisations, acting outside of China and more difficult to control and suppress, become the only option for those frustrated by Beijing’s policies.

*In a recently released annual report by the US Congressional-Executive Commission on China – tasked to monitor human rights and legal developments in the country – the authors found that “overly broad security measures and crackdowns, restrictions on peaceful religious activists, and constraints on expressions of Uygur cultural identity have heightened tensions in [Xinjiang]”.

Al-Qaeda magazine calls for Xinjiang to be ‘recovered by the Islamic Caliphate’ | South China Morning Post*

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## kankan326

The first time when China controlled Xinjiang is in Han Dynasty, 2000 years ago. Islam did not even exist by then.

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## $elf

Alqaueda = islamists on CIA payroll

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## Beidou2020

This is not ISIS or Al-Qaeda or whatever group the CIA decides to repackage and create next year.

This is a US policy to exploit the weak spots of countries and cause trouble in those weak spots.

China's weak spots are Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, Taiwan, South China Sea and Diaoyu Islands.

The US sees China rising and they want to cause as much trouble to China as possible. They are doing the same to Russia using Chechnya, Ukraine, etc.

China allowing Western NGO's inside Chinese territory is one of the biggest mistakes the CPC has ever made.

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## TaiShang

Stop reading radical magazines, I would advice SCMP. They have even more grandeous claims and no one, I mean NO ONE, is saved from their wrath save their particular sect. 

It is very stupid and amateur of the said newspaper that they cite a radical terrorist group's magazine as if they held any legitimacy.

Oh almighty anti-China hate cult!​

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## Beidou2020

TaiShang said:


> Stop reading radical magazines, I would advice SCMP. They have even more grandeous claims and no one, I mean NO ONE, is saved from their wrath save their particular sect.
> 
> It is very stupid and amateur of the said newspaper that they cite a radical terrorist group's magazine as if they held any legitimacy.
> 
> Oh almighty anti-China hate cult!​



It is also time for China to close down all anti-China media, both domestic and foreign.

SCMP and Apple Daily come to mind that should be shut down.

Or replace their bosses and journalists with Chinese patriots, not these CIA paid puppets they have now.

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## Jaanbaz

Thus proving again and again USA and the west gave rise to extremist and twisted version of Islam by supporting Wahabism in Saudi Arabia.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> It is also time for China to close down all anti-China media, both domestic and foreign.
> 
> SCMP and Apple Daily come to mind that should be shut down.
> 
> Or replace their bosses and journalists with Chinese patriots, not these CIA paid puppets they have now.



Apple Daily is spewing venom in Taiwan. I mean, literally. They recently launched a news TV, also, and guess what, these days it is all yellow.

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## Narashima

kankan326 said:


> The first time when China controlled Xinjiang is in Han Dynasty, 2000 years ago. Islam did not even exist by then.


but it does exist now and have more than a billion adherent.


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## Kompromat

Al-Qaeda is breathing its last breaths.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Good going for China

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## TaiShang

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Good going for China



Looks like the "West" is just now really opening up.

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## beijingwalker

new Urumqi high-speed railway station in Xinjiang

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## INDIAPOSITIVE

up lifting propaganda posters touting President Xi Jinping's "China Dream" catchphrase are plastered across many cities in China these days. But throughout the country's westernmost province, an unrelenting series of billboards, red banners and spray-painted signs suggests menace lurking everywhere.

"It is strictly forbidden to transmit violent terrorist videos," warn banners hung from government buildings and draped across traffic lane dividers. "Young men should not grow beards and young women should not cover their faces with veils," some signs read.

The messages make it clear whom authorities blame for the explosions, knifings, riots and other violent incidents that have left hundreds dead this year in Xinjiang province: Islamic extremists and separatists with ties to foreign forces.

But even as Chinese officials insist that this is a clear-cut battle against religious zealots and hard-core separatists, local authorities are making it difficult for anyone to independently question (or substantiate) that narrative. Outsiders inquiring about the scale or causes of the carnage in Xinjiang are unwelcome, and locals are discouraged from speaking freely about it.

That became abundantly clear on a recent Thursday when I and my assistant, our driver and guide suddenly found ourselves accompanied by two extremely persistent Xinjiang security officers who trailed us for hours and whose intimidating presence ensured that no one would talk openly to us.

China's state-run media must follow the Communist Party line, but foreign journalists are supposed to be able to travel freely anywhere in the country except Tibet and interview anyone who consents.

lRelated China sentences Uighur professor to life in prison on separatism charge
ASIA
China sentences Uighur professor to life in prison on separatism charge
SEE ALL RELATED	
8
In reality, though, authorities employ various tactics to stifle coverage. In a recent survey by the Foreign Correspondents' Club of China, two-thirds of overseas reporters here said they had experienced interference, harassment or violence while attempting to report.

At my hotel in Kashgar, I was questioned and photographed by police; in Yafuquan, where I stopped to observe a village market and wasn't interviewing anyone, officers nonetheless approached our van within 20 minutes, demanded my passport, photographed it and told us to leave the area.

I actually got off lightly compared with Australian Broadcasting Corp. correspondent Stephen McDonell, who said he was recently trailed for 10 days in Xinjiang, sometimes followed by five cars carrying officials and plainclothes officers.

Later, Chinese Embassy representatives visited McDonell's bosses in Canberra, he said, urging them to quash any report on the trip and warning that any broadcast about his experience could harm relations between the two countries.

cComments
Got something to say? Start the conversation and be the first to comment.
ADD A COMMENT	
0
My shadows showed up in Yarkand. Ironically, I had no intention of doing interviews there. My team and I had finished our main reporting assignment for the day in another town and decided to go to Yarkand for some sightseeing — or so we thought.

From the early 1500s to late 1600s, Yarkand was the capital of a Uighur kingdom. Uighurs are a small minority today among ethnic Han-dominated China's 1.3 billion people, but they are a majority in Xinjiang. A visit to Yarkand's old mosque and graveyard seemed like a worthwhile opportunity to absorb some historical background.

Uighur rights groups say discriminatory government policies have disenfranchised Uighurs politically and economically, sparking protests that have escalated into mass violence. In July, in two villages 25 miles north of Yarkand, at least 96 people met a violent end.

The details remain sketchy at best. Officials say police shot 59 attackers after an armed group stormed government offices and killed 37 people. Foreign Uighur activist groups counter that police opened fire on locals protesting a crackdown on Muslims during the holy month of Ramadan, and they suggest the death toll was much higher than 96.

Yarkand proper, though, has been calm, so we were surprised upon entering the city to see a group of men in helmets, green fatigues and black vests — perhaps riot police — marching by, carrying long, pointy spears. Also unexpectedly, Internet access to smartphones and text-messaging services had been disabled.

Within five minutes of our entering a noodle and pilaf restaurant, two young men dressed in black — one Uighur, one Han — came in. They said nothing, but their garb suggested that they were junior officers dispatched to keep tabs on us and anyone we met.

We piled into our van and drove to the city's cemetery and mosque. The men trailed conspicuously. As we walked around, they listened attentively to the guide's spiel, standing a mere arm's length away.

We moved on to the local market. Some people seemed happy to see a rare Westerner, but they stiffened as soon as they noticed the plainclothes police. What good could come from talking to a foreigner with a police escort at her elbow?

I suggested the officers pay the tour guide some money — after all, they had been learning as much as I had. They stared at me blankly. Who are you? I asked. No reply. Why are you following me? Again, no answer.

We hopped on a three-wheeled motorcycle taxi. The shadows followed. We drove to a modern mall. They stuck by our side. "Do you give all foreign visitors such a personal welcome?" I asked one of the young men. He smiled and replied in English, "I'm here for your safety."

Intrigued, I pressed him. "Oh, is this town very dangerous? Did something bad happen here? I see lots of government signs about terrorism."

"Society is difficult," he said obliquely. "This is a small town and something could happen suddenly."

I went into a clothing shop, no bigger than 10 by 10 feet, with one way in and out. Behind a curtain, I tried on a dress. The officers waited just on the other side of the fabric.

They followed us to our hotel. The clerk informed us the hotel had no Internet. I asked the officers why the entire city was cut off. "Maybe the Internet has some problem," said one.

I went up to my room. An hour later, my assistant and I slipped out the back door, avoiding the lobby where the shadows had camped out.

We walked around for a while. An elderly Han woman running a minimart said she was happy she had migrated from Shaanxi province to Xinjiang years ago, though she described her Uighur customers as lazy and simple-minded.

Down the street, a Han clerk sat in his empty computer shop. Business had dried up since the Internet was shut off, he said. Yarkand, he continued, was unsafe.

We kept walking, into an underground shopping mall. A Uighur proprietor welcomed us into his shop. He talked of his 3-month-old son, his love for Kobe Bryant, his dreams that his boy would study English. He complained about the restrictions on the Internet, and how few Westerners come to Yarkand these days.

Closing up for the night, he rolled down the metal shop door and walked us to a nearby fruit market.

"Take my number. If you have any problems, you can call me," he said, pulling out his cellphone.

Great, I thought, until he added — unaware of our experience that day — "I've got friends everywhere, even with the police."

In Xinjiang, China, journalists work in the shadow of censorship - LA Times


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## StormShadow

BEIJING // Schools in China’s mainly Muslim Xinjiang region, where a series of attacks has killed hundreds in recent months, said they would actively discourage religious practice at home.

Principals at more than 2,000 kindergartens, primary schools and secondary schools in Kashgar, near China’s border with Pakistan, signed a pledge to “defend schools against the infiltration of religion”, according to the Global Times, a newspaper close to the Communist Party.

Party members, teachers and underage students should not practise religion either at school or at home, it quoted a Kashgar education official as saying.

Xinjiang is home to more than 10 million Muslims, mostly members of the Uighur minority. Children younger than 18 are banned from entering mosques throughout the region.

Beijing has blamed a series of recent violent attacks on separatists from Xinjiang motivated by religious extremism, and linked them to overseas groups.

Rights groups accuse China’s government of cultural and religious repression which they say fuels unrest.

Kashgar’s education bureau has sought to fight extremism by regulating student dress, said the official quoted by Global Times, who expressed concern over students displaying no religious affiliation at school but then going home to study it under their parents’ guidance.

China’s constitution guarantees freedom of religion and a policy document released by the ruling Communist party on Wednesday said cadres must pledge allegiance to the constitution before taking office.

A US state department report on religious freedom in China noted “societal discrimination based on religious affiliation, belief, or practice”.

“Authorities often failed to distinguish between peaceful religious practice and criminal or terrorist activities,” it said.

Chinaâs Xinjiang schools to discourage religion at home | The National


*China Bans Religion in Xinjiang Schools*​

CAIRO – Education officials in China's Muslim-majority province of Xinjiang have announced their plans to keep religious practices away from schools, justifying the decision as a trial to combat terrorism in the district.

"As the head of an educational institution, a principal is responsible for protecting their students from religious infiltration, and especially from extremist thoughts," Lu Huadong, an official working in Kashgar's education department, told Global Times, which is close to the Communist Party, on Wednesday, October 29.

“Signing their names on a banner and making such vows in front of the national flag are both ways for them to remember their duty,” he added.

Principals at more than 2,000 kindergartens, primary schools and secondary schools in Kashgar, near China’s border with Pakistan, signed a pledge to “defend schools against the infiltration of religion”.

According to the Times, an official from Kashgar's education bureau, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said that they have been explaining the State's policy to students

Party members, teachers and underage students should not practice religion either at school or at home, he added.

Xinjiang has been autonomous since 1955 but continues to be the subject of massive security crackdowns by Chinese authorities.

Rights groups accuse Chinese authorities of religious repression against Uighur Muslims, a Turkish-speaking minority of eight million, in Xinjiang in the name of counter terrorism.

Muslims accuses the government of settling millions of ethnic Han in their territory with the ultimate goal of obliterating its identity and culture.

And analysts say the policy of transferring Han Chinese to Xinjiang to consolidate Beijing's authority has increased the proportion of Han in the region from five percent in the 1940s to more than 40 percent now.

Beijing views the vast region of Xinjiang as an invaluable asset because of its crucial strategic location near Central Asia and its large oil and gas reserves.

A US State Department report on religious freedom in China noted “societal discrimination based on religious affiliation, belief, or practice”.

“Authorities often failed to distinguish between peaceful religious practice and criminal or terrorist activities,” the report said.

China Bans Religion in Xinjiang Schools - Asia-Pacific - News - OnIslam.net


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## Luffy 500

Another CCP fart. Xinjiang muslims r undergoing the most oppression under chinese CCP rule. Maybe its time they migrate to near by muslim states or places they can practice their religion. But alas, most muslim states including Pakistan won't allow them in as muslim state r ruled by thugs and have large proportions of secular nationalist who r yet to overcome the western injected overdose of nationalism.

May Allah (swt) have mercy on our brothers and sisters in Xinjiang and make life easy for them. Ameen.


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## cirr

So it is a D train instead of G train。No wonder it runs at a lowly average speed of 200km/h。For the trial period？

*First High-speed Railway Train Starts Operating in Xinjiang
*
video：新疆：兰新高铁新疆段今天开通运行 20141116 现场快报—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

November 16, 2014

Editor: Tracy Zhu

The first high-speed railway in China's northwest Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region started operating on November 16 with the *D8602* train leaving the south station of Urumqi, capital city of the region, at 11 am.

The fully-loaded CRH5A bullet train, running at an average speed of 200 kilometers per hour, will take about three hours to reach Hami, 530 kilometers away.

On the first day, three pairs of trains will operate between Urumqi and Hami. The frequency will increase to four from Monday.

Passengers can buy tickets from stations along the route, including Urumqi south, Turpan north, Shanshan north, Tuha and Hami. Telephone and online purchase are also available. For first-class seat, the ticket is 196 yuan（U.S.$ 31.98) and 163.5 yuan(U.S.$ 26.68) for second-class seat.

*The section from Urumqi to Hami is a part of the 1,776-km newly constructed Lanzhou-Urumqi section, which will be fully put into use at the end of this year*. It will reduce the travel time from Urumqi to Lanzhou, capital of Gansu province, by half, about nine hours. *People from Urumqi will be able to travel to Beijing by train in 16 hours instead of 40 after the high-speed link between the two cities is completed in 2017.*

(Source: China Daily)

Video：兰新高铁新疆段今天开通 141116—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

First High-speed Railway Train Starts Operating in Xinjiang - All China Women's Federation

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## Keel

Congrats!
The trains that run on this new line can travel through extreme temperature of +/- 40 deg C with sandstorm proof facilities/devices built within the trains and along some vital sections of the tracks

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## SpArK

*China Opens First Leg of High-Speed Railway in Xinjiang*




A worker welds steel bars during construction of the roof of a new railway station in Urumuqi.(Reuters))



BEIJING: *China opened the first stretch of a new high-speed railway in the western region of Xinjiang on Sunday, a milestone in the central government's efforts to promote economic development in restive hinterlands and bind them closer to the rest of China.*

The 530 km (330 miles) stretch between Xinjiang's capital, Urumqi, and Hami is the first stage of the 1,775 km (1,100 miles) Lanxin railway connecting Urumqi to Lanzhou, the capital of central western Gansu Province.


The official Xinhua news agency reported on Sunday that the full length of the passenger railway is on schedule to open by the end of the year. Trains on the Urumqi-Hami leg could reach more than 200 kph (120 mph), halving the travel time between the two cities to three hours.

Xinjiang, a sprawling, resource-rich region that is home to China's Muslim Uighur minority, has been beset by worsening ethnic violence in recent years but remains a critical part of China's economic strategy.

Over the past year President Xi Jinping has spelled out ambitious plans to open China's west and build a "New Silk Road" network of intercontinental land routes and maritime lines that would connect China to its Central and Southeast Asian neighbours. He announced a $40 billion fund to invest in infrastructure projects earlier this month.

China has also been pouring money into Xinjiang's development in an effort to quell growing discontent among Uighurs, many of whom chafe at government restrictions on their cultural and religious practices as well as their lack of economic opportunity.

The government, which has warned of a growing threat of Islamist militants in the region, said in June it was confident of guaranteeing the railway's security despite a bomb attack at an Urumqi railway station in April that killed three people and wounded 79. 
© Thomson Reuters 2014

China Opens First Leg of High-Speed Railway in Xinjiang


China is going good with railway and will be helping in Delhi Chennai highspeed rail.

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## zaid butt

good thing 
one day in pakistan too hope

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## bobsm

Great engineering feat, considering the challenging environment. Now one can travel to Ürümqi in Xinjiang, on a train, at up to 250km/hr.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon



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## Zarland

I am very impressed with the Chinese high-speed rail network. I wish the same can be said with the US passenger rail system.


It is expensive and inefficient for each individual to own a car. It would be nice if there are more options for mass transit system such as public buses, reliable and fast train services in the US.


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## StarCraft_ZT

Zarland said:


> I am very impressed with the Chinese high-speed rail network. I wish the same can be said with the US passenger rail system.
> 
> 
> It is expensive and inefficient for each individual to own a car. It would be nice if there are more options for mass transit system such as public buses, reliable and fast train services in the US.



How come? A good condition used car only cost $5,000-$10,000.


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## Zarland

StarCraft_ZT said:


> How come? A good condition used car only cost $5,000-$10,000.




The average cost per new car in the US is $32,000. This number is probably averaged out with luxury vehicle such as Mercedes, BMW, and etc.

I rarely see new car goes below $16,000.

People can buy cheaper used car, but used need to be replaced more often and repaired more often. When you factor in everything, they are not much cheaper. On top of that, all cars start as new. The only thing different for owning a used car is that someone else paid a little bit more for his or her share of the car, but the total cost of the car won’t change.

Assume a person buy a new Corolla (around $16,000-18,000), which last roughly 10 to 12 years. Keep the math simple and let’s do it without any added interests, month cost owning a car over the life time of the car would be around $140.

Typical insurance cost here in the States is $40-100 per months, then again pick the lower end at $50 per month.

Gas for the first time drop below $3 in the past few years. Assume average MPG at 30 (actual in 2013 was around 25 MPG), and an average person drive around 1000 mile per month.

Factor in other misc. cost such as wide shield wiper, breaker replacement, tires, wiper fluid, oil change at only $20 per month.

When added up all the cost above it would easily go above $300. For most of the people, they need to make $400-450 before tax just to afford a car (assume income tax around 25%).

It takes 10%-15% of income just to get to work. The cost of traveling long distance with car is not cheap either when depreciation of the car are added to the cost of fuel. 




*Sorry, there is a lot of assumptions.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Sky view of the rail

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## Jit

I am jealous of trains in China! we've got to get them in the USA and India asap. Well, apparently Modi talked to Abe and Li/Xi about this, so let's see if we can buy some and get tracks laid down soon. read recently that the start will be teh Delhi-Chennai route in 6'30 hours


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## TaiShang

Xinjiang section of high-speed rail goes into service - CCTV News - CCTV.com English

The Xinjiang Section of the Lanzhou-Xinjiang high-speed railway has just gone into service, marking the first high-speed service in China’s far west.







_The Xinjiang Section of the Lanzhou-Xinjiang high-speed railway has just gone into service, marking the first high-speed service in China’s far west._

The railway, also known as the Lanxin Railway, follows the path of the ancient Silk Road. It runs over 1,700 kilometers, from Lanzhou, Gansu Province, through the Hexi Corridor, to Urumqi in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. It passes through 39 stations, including Xinjiang’s cities of Turpan and Hami, and Gansu’s Jiayuguan, Jiuquan and Xining.

The travel time needed to cover that distance when the line is in full operation later this year will be reduced to half, at about 9 hours. The railway’s Xinjiang section is 710 kilometers long and is designed for the purpose of transporting passengers only.

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## Zarland

My folks live in another state that is about 250 miles from me. A typical trip home would take 4 to 5 hours. If there is high speed rail here, I would be able to take a nap for 1-2 hours on the train and I will be home...


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## hans

High speed trains are pretty good for travel of such distance.
If you take the G class high speed trains, it will only take one hour & 20 minutes..
Much comfortable than driving 4-5 hours



Zarland said:


> My folks live in another state that is about 250 miles from me. A typical trip home would take 4 to 5 hours. If there is high speed rail here, I would be able to take a nap for 1-2 hours on the train and I will be home...


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## hans

The high speed trains are pretty expensive.
Even only 1/3 to 1/4 ticket price in Japan, Chinese still complain about ticket price..
I am wondering if India can run such a high speed train system with sufficient profit.




Jit said:


> I am jealous of trains in China! we've got to get them in the USA and India asap. Well, apparently Modi talked to Abe and Li/Xi about this, so let's see if we can buy some and get tracks laid down soon. read recently that the start will be teh Delhi-Chennai route in 6'30 hours


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## TaiShang

Great. Ban all religious indoctrination in schools. Politicized religion is poison. Religion that interferes in national life is a disgrace and recipe for backwardness and intolerance, whatever name it may come under. Kill off it prematurely.

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## Zarland

hans said:


> High speed trains are pretty good for travel of such distance.
> If you take the G class high speed trains, it will only take one hour & 20 minutes..
> Much comfortable than driving 4-5 hours



I plan to make a trip to China just to ride the high speed rail next year. I had the opportunity in 2008 to ride the much limited high speed rail from Guangzhou to Shengzhen. I was very impressed with how smooth it was. The newer lines from what I have gathered are much more advanced than the one I have ridden.


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## janon

Wow, congrats to China for this.

Could somebody tell me a few things about HSR in China: How does the cost of the ticket compare to airfare? Are either or both subsidized by the govt? Without any subsidies, what would be cheaper? (In India rail travel is highly subsidized, so it is very cheap.)

Also, which company built this particular line?

Are there any Chinese members here who travel on HSR lines frequently?

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## hans

I would suggest you to take the high speed train from Shanghai to Beijing.
It takes about 5 hours and it is pretty comfortable and smooth 
Also comparing to 3 hour air flight, you will save the total time considering arrival and departure from airport
My boss from US like the high speed train very much. He always take the high speed train..



Zarland said:


> I plan to make a trip to China just to ride the high speed rail next year. I had the opportunity in 2008 to ride the much limited high speed rail from Guangzhou to Shengzhen. I was very impressed with how smooth it was. The newer lines from what I have gathered are much more advanced than the one I have ridden.


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## hans

The HSR price is always fixed while air ticket has discount 
.HSR ticket is about half price of non-discount air ticket at same distance. 
If you get a high discount air ticket, it will be cheaper than HRS.
Also we have much cheaper low speed train like 120Kmh level. 
Then it is only ten percent of air ticket
The railway are built and operated by government owned company.
I travel a few time on HSR. 
Business traveler usually like HSR, time saving, more comfortable. Ticket paid by company..
If we are traveling on your own expense, we will balance between air ticket, high speed and low speed trains...


janon said:


> Wow, congrats to China for this.
> 
> Could somebody tell me a few things about HSR in China: How does the cost of the ticket compare to airfare? Are either or both subsidized by the govt? Without any subsidies, what would be cheaper? (In India rail travel is highly subsidized, so it is very cheap.)
> 
> Also, which company built this particular line?
> 
> Are there any Chinese members here who travel on HSR lines frequently?

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## xuxu1457

janon said:


> Wow, congrats to China for this.
> 
> Could somebody tell me a few things about HSR in China: How does the cost of the ticket compare to airfare? Are either or both subsidized by the govt? Without any subsidies, what would be cheaper? (In India rail travel is highly subsidized, so it is very cheap.)
> 
> Also, which company built this particular line?
> 
> Are there any Chinese members here who travel on HSR lines frequently?


EG，from two north cities, Dalian to Qinhuangdao
1. No.K715 , slowest train 112￥，830km, 20stops, will stop at every small station，take 11.6hours;
2. HSR, No.D31, 178￥，590km, 8stops, take 3.6hours
3. air plan, G52693, Full price tickets 500￥+30￥Insurance+50￥Airport construction fee+40￥Fuel surcharges=620￥，take 1 hours and you should reach airport 2hours earlier.
Lowest discount tickets if you buy 15days earlier 120 ￥+30￥Insurance+50￥Airport construction fee+40￥Fuel surcharges=240￥, and airports alwasy stay out of city;

Price: air 240￥-620￥，HSR 178￥，lowest train 112￥;
Time:air 3hours，HSR 3.6hours，lowest train 11.6hours;
Punctuality rate：air 66%，HSR 99.9%, lowest train 80%
Comfortable：air 85, HSR 95,lowest train 70 （if full score is 100 ）

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## cirr

*China starts building new Xinjiang railway*

English.news.cn 

2014-11-17 21:22:59







URUMQI, Nov. 17 (Xinhua) -- China has begun building a railway linking the northwestern Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region with other parts of the country.

*Work began on the 1,214-km line between Korla in southern Xinjiang and Golmud in neighboring Qinghai Province on Sunday*, according to Urumqi Railway Administration.

*At a cost of 37 billion yuan (6 bln U.S. dollars), construction is scheduled to take five years.* The railway is the latest improvement to the rail connectivity of Xinjiang, a key area in the Silk Road economic belt.

For years, the Lanxin railway was the only link between Xinjiang and other parts of China, before a high-speed rail line began operations on Sunday.

In June, construction began on a railway linking Ejina in Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region and Hami in Xinjiang.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2014-11/17/c_133795926.htm

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## TaiShang

Large rare metal discovery in Xinjiang - Global Times

Geologists have discovered a large field containing rich deposits of rare molybdenum in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, local officials said Tuesday. 

*Molybdenum is a hard, silvery mineral mainly used as an alloying agent in steel and tungsten. It is used in the aviation, construction and military manufacturing industries. 

With at least 573,000 tons of proven reserves, worth an estimated 60 billion yuan (10 billion US dollars), it is the largest deposit of molybdenum ever discovered in the resource rich Xinjiang. *

The mine is located 100 kilometers south of Yumin County, northwestern Xinjiang, according to the regional mining authority. 

The discovery will not only advance the development of the new Molybdenum-related industry in Xinjiang, but will also benefit local revenue and employment, according to the authority. 

The authority has worked with a mine company from neighboring Qinghai Province and has spent six years and 100 million yuan on the exploration project.

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## Keel

Hush Hush Hush

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## root

Good for China.


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## he-man

I came here thinking of kryptonite

Anyways now chinese are gonna put more pressure on global markets,already they have stopped/decreased the exports of rare earth metals


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## tranquilium

he-man said:


> I came here thinking of kryptonite
> 
> Anyways now chinese are gonna put more pressure on global markets,already they have stopped/decreased the exports of rare earth metals



Kryptonite is over-rated, we need element zero or the equivalent to get us into space. (Okay, I just finished watching Interstellar. Good movie.)

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## mike2000

he-man said:


> I came here thinking of kryptonite
> 
> Anyways now chinese are gonna put more pressure on global markets,already they have stopped/decreased the exports of rare earth metals



huh....bro, but the amount of rare earths metal that leaves China illegally is even more than the amount they export legally. So we dont have to fear much about the 'rare earth metal' restrictions. Since the government there seems not to be able to even control it themselves, which is truly surprising for an authoritarian government. Seems they dont have that much authority/control over provinces. because its really surprising they are unable stop the illegal trade. its good for the outside world though(especially , E.U/U.S/Japan who are the largest rare earth consumers) . So discovering new resources deposits is not the problem, knowing how to exploit them is the real deal. You can have all the resources in thsi world, but if you are not smart enough to know how to exploit them/make good use of them/gain maximum value from them, then you might even be better off without them to be honest.

China must tackle rare earth industry chaos - People's Daily Online

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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> Large rare metal discovery in Xinjiang - Global Times
> 
> Geologists have discovered a large field containing rich deposits of rare molybdenum in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, local officials said Tuesday.
> 
> *Molybdenum is a hard, silvery mineral mainly used as an alloying agent in steel and tungsten. It is used in the aviation, construction and military manufacturing industries.
> 
> With at least 573,000 tons of proven reserves, worth an estimated 60 billion yuan (10 billion US dollars), it is the largest deposit of molybdenum ever discovered in the resource rich Xinjiang. *
> 
> The mine is located 100 kilometers south of Yumin County, northwestern Xinjiang, according to the regional mining authority.
> 
> The discovery will not only advance the development of the new Molybdenum-related industry in Xinjiang, but will also benefit local revenue and employment, according to the authority.
> 
> The authority has worked with a mine company from neighboring Qinghai Province and has spent six years and 100 million yuan on the exploration project.



That's one of the metal WS 15 is waiting for.


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## ChineseTiger1986

bolo said:


> That's one of the metal WS 15 is waiting for.



Perhaps for the next gen WS-25?

Since we have already built the superalloy for the WS-15.

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## TaiShang

mike2000 said:


> huh....bro, but the amount of rare earths metal that leaves China illegally is even more than the amount they export legally. So we dont have to fear much about the 'rare earth metal' restrictions. Since the government there seems not to be able to even control it themselves, which is truly surprising for an authoritarian government. Seems they dont have that much authority/control over provinces. because its really surprising they are unable stop the illegal trade. its good for the outside world though(especially , E.U/U.S/Japan who are the largest rare earth consumers) . So discovering new resources deposits is not the problem, knowing how to exploit them is the real deal. You can have all the resources in thsi world, but if you are not smart enough to know how to exploit them/make good use of them/gain maximum value from them, then you might even be better off without them to be honest.
> 
> China must tackle rare earth industry chaos - People's Daily Online



This problem is being taken care of as we speak since, as you say rightly, there was hardly any regulation before. The rare earth industry is becoming more consolidated. Oftentimes you can read illegal miners being busted here and there. Soon there will be one or two large state monopolies controlling the industry and, as China limits the mining and export due to environmental concerns, prices will increase (there is already a tendency to that direction as China's rare material export decreases).

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## cirr

mike2000 said:


> huh....bro, but the amount of rare earths metal that leaves China illegally is even more than the amount they export legally. So we dont have to fear much about the 'rare earth metal' restrictions. Since the government there seems not to be able to even control it themselves, which is truly surprising for an authoritarian government. Seems they dont have that much authority/control over provinces. because its really surprising they are unable stop the illegal trade. its good for the outside world though(especially , E.U/U.S/Japan who are the largest rare earth consumers) . So discovering new resources deposits is not the problem, knowing how to exploit them is the real deal. You can have all the resources in thsi world, but if you are not smart enough to know how to exploit them/make good use of them/gain maximum value from them, then you might even be better off without them to be honest.
> 
> China must tackle rare earth industry chaos - People's Daily Online



How could a self-proclaimed law abiding country knowingly use contrabands？

It is really beyond me，you hypocrites。

Maybe the rule of law is just a puff of hot air and used by the West to interfere in others‘ internal affairs？

Anyhow，it takes time to clamp down on the illegal miners。

China authoritarian？

An average Chinese enjoys far more freedom than an average Brit。

I can practically do or say anything I please apart from voting into office a politician whom I know nothing about。

Call it lawless if you must。

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## war is peace

Good cirr great response those Brits forgot rule of law when they sold opium and when their citizen was executed by china for drugs just see their complaints and concern that's why their society is full of crackheads.

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## mike2000

cirr said:


> How could a self-proclaimed law abiding country knowingly use contrabands？
> 
> It is really beyond me，you hypocrites。
> 
> Maybe the rule of law is just a puff of hot air and used by the West to interfere in others‘ internal affairs？
> 
> Anyhow，it takes time to clamp down on the illegal miners。
> 
> China authoritarian？
> 
> An average Chinese enjoys far more freedom than an average Brit。
> 
> I can practically do or say anything I please apart from voting into office a politician whom I know nothing about。
> 
> Call it lawless if you must。




LOOOL why are you taking a simple observation i made persoanal bros? Even your Chinese brother Taishang response was respectful and to the point and he made some valuable points to counter my points while avoiding insults/bringing in unrelated stuffs into his remarks. 
What has my point got anything to do with the U.S/west being hypocrites? Have you even been following my comments on this site? If you did ,then i will be the last person you will call 'hypocrite'. You definitely choosed the wrong words for the wrong person bros. I say things i have observed/red, its not like i invented this news. It is soemthing even your own country officila newspapaers have wrote about. So what does it have to do with the 'more freedom the chinese enjoys compared to the average Brit'? 
I dont even understand what you were trying to prove in your comment to be honest. Moreover, im even surprised my friend War is peace brought opium war into the discussion. WTH has this got to do with the point i made? 
Jeez...someof you Chinese members seem to get too defensive on anything critical/shortcomings about your government, even something your own official media has recognised/agreed with. No government/politicians is a saint/innocent or whatever, there are of course always shortcomings in ever country on earth. Though some are more than others, but doesnt change much. This is why i myself have made several points on here recognizing our govenments in the west/U.S/U.K shortcomings and their exploitation policies they have implemented in Africa for over a century now to this day and their other foreign policies democratic/freedom hypocrisy.So before you label such insults against someone, make sure you have gone throught heir posts well/know them well bros. 
Finally, i have never indulged in personal attacks on here, so i expect others to do the same(though i know its too much to ask for most members on here.lol), so if you continuemaking personal insults against my simple points i made, then i will have to just ignore you next time bros. No hard feelings though, we can always agree to disagree respectfully without insults. We are mere civilians afterall, not politicians/officials, so we wont ever change our country policies no matter how patriotic/insulting towards other we might be.So why not just be friends/respectful towards others? we lose absolutely nothing in doing that?


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## The Unnamed

They did the same thing with Afghanistan.

Someone dig up that afghanisthan story.


all bluff. to bring citizen into the state line willingly.

this is called "the carrot".


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## BoQ77

rare earth export banned by China govt. So wonder is the news useful to foreigners?


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## TaiShang

BoQ77 said:


> rare earth export wasn't banned by China govt. So wonder is the news useful to foreigners?



No, it was regulated and put on a quota, hence, the increased price in rare metals. In the near future, China aims to fully control the global prices of rare material, a strategic asset in times of need. So, two tasks:

*Keep the customers attached, do not alienate them
*Use it as a leverage when the situation arises.

This is what China is working on


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## terranMarine

The capital of China's restive region of Xinjiang will recruit 3,000 former soldiers to help guard its residents, the Chinese government has said.

The soldiers will be carefully vetted to determine their political views. They will join the military and police forces that often patrol Urumqi.

The move comes amid a crackdown against the Uighur Muslim minority group.

China has blamed a spate of violent attacks in Xinjiang on Uighurs pushing for the region's independence.

The BBC's Celia Hatton says that tensions have been on the rise in Xinjiang, where 175 people have died so far this year in clashes between Uighurs and the Han Chinese majority, according to China's state media.

This is a huge increase on the same period last year when 45 people were killed.

This is the first time former soldiers have been asked by China to guard Urumqi.

Those applying for the role must be under 30, have left the army within the past year and prove that they are "against separatism and illegal religious activities," our correspondent says.

Xinjiang's recruitment office told the BBC it is yet to receive many applications.

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## bobsm

Xinjiang hires ex-soldiers to protect residents - Global Times

Xinjiang hires ex-soldiers to protect residents
By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2014-11-28 0:48:02
Increased terror threat requires more manpower: expert

Urumqi in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region will for the first time recruit 3,000 ex-soldiers to protect residential communities, a move observers said is aimed at coping with increased violence and terrorism.

All soldiers who left the service this year, who are under the age of 30, are "against separatism and illegal religious activities" and have no criminal record can apply for the job, the capital city's Civil Affairs Bureau announced Thursday on its website.

The soldiers have to undergo an application process, which includes a political examination and health check before being hired. Once they become community workers, they will be paid at least 3,000 yuan ($500) a month and given a local hukou, or residence certificate, the recruitment ad said.

"The recruitment is a way to maintain stability as well as to help demobilized soldiers get a job," the announcement said.

"This is the first time that we are employing ex-soldiers to maintain community stability," a male employee from the Civil Affairs Bureau, who asked to remain anonymous, told the Global Times.

Observers said that the move reflected the authorities' determination to fight terrorism and separatism, which have become increasingly serious in Xinjiang in recent years.

"The situation in Xinjiang is getting worse, and the government needs more people to prevent further riots from happening," Pan Zhiping, the director of the Research Institute of Central Asia at the Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences, told the Global Times.

Xu Jianying, a professor with the Research Center for Chinese Borderland History and Geography at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, agrees.

He blamed the involvement of hostile forces in neighboring regions outside China for an increase in violence in Xinjiang since 2012.

Sixteen police were killed and an equal number were injured after a border patrol armed police division in Xinjiang was raided in 2013, the Xinhua News Agency said.

In March, a group of terrorists led by Xinjiang separatist forces killed 31 people in the Kunming railway station in Yunnan Province. Three of the suspects were sentenced to death and one was sentenced to life in prison.

The local police and military have increased their patrol in Urumqi and other areas prone to terror attacks.

The governments are also mobilizing civil servants to boost exchanges with people at the grass-roots to reduce ethnic conflicts and monitor the spread of religious extremism.

"Maintaining stability in communities is very significant, as violence and major terrorist activities start in local communities," Pan said.

Demobilized soldiers of high political quality and military experience will be able to prevent groups from organizing violent and terrorist activities, Pan said. He added that most community workers in Xinjiang who patrol at night currently are women with no military experience.

In the face of increasing terrorism, the Xinjiang government launched a campaign to crack down on violent and terrorist crimes in May, that will last until next June. Since the campaign's launch, Xinjiang police have busted 115 suspected terrorist gangs, investigated 44 cases involving the spread of explosive making methods online and arrested 238 illegal scripture teachers as of November, according to Xinjiang government's official news portal ts.cn.

However, Xu cautioned that although more people involved in maintaining stability helps guarantee the safety of residents, they can also bring an unnecessary sense of tension among people.

It is also important for authorities to win the support of the Uyghur people who have remained on the sidelines of the government's anti-terrorism campaign, experts say.

"They (the Uyghurs) are more easily instigated by extremists due to a lack of knowledge of terrorism," Pan said.

Since August, the Xinjiang government has been holding a series of cultural activities including short sketch comedies and drawing competitions to help Uyghur people understand extremism and separatism.

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## TaiShang

Curbs on religious extremism beefed up in Xinjiang- China.org.cn

A regulation prohibiting people from wearing or forcing others to wear clothes or logos associated with religious extremism was passed in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region on Friday.

The revised regional regulation on religious affairs is the first in the country to target religious extremism.

The measure was approved unanimously by the Standing Committee of the Xinjiang People's Congress, and is due to come into force on Jan 1 next year. It is intended to protect legal religious activities.

*"An increasing number of problems involving religious affairs have emerged in Xinjiang," said Ma Mingcheng, deputy director of the Xinjiang People's Congress and director of its legislative affairs committee.

"The old regulation, which was passed 20 years ago, just cannot handle new situations, such as the spreading of terrorist or extreme religious materials via the Internet or social media, and using religion to interfere in people's lives."*

He said the regulation has taken two-and-a-half years to draft, and is the most discussed and debated measure in the region's history due to the sensitivity and importance of the subject.

Religious extremism has become the main threat to stability in Xinjiang and has led to an increasing number of terrorist attacks in and outside the region.

The new regulation contains 18 new articles, most of which clarify the nature of illegal and extreme religious activities, Ma said.

It defines religious extremism as activities or comments that twist the doctrines of a religion and promote thoughts of extremism, violence and hatred.

*Local authorities will be given the right to ask people not to wear clothes or logos linked to religious extremism, though the types of clothes and logos are not specified.

The regulation prohibits people from distributing and viewing videos about jihad, or holy war, religious extremism and terrorism in or outside religious venues, and requires religious leaders to report such activities to the local authorities and police.*

People will not be allowed to practice religion in government offices, public schools, businesses or institutions. Religious activities will have to take place in registered venues.

The regulation says people should not use religion to interfere with the judicial system or wedding and funeral traditions.

"The revised and new articles all target the most urgent and unique problems in Xinjiang's religious affairs and are very practical," Ma said. "We want people to know what religious activities are protected and what need to be stopped."

Li Juan, president of the Xinjiang Police Academy, said most of the measures already introduced to combat religious extremism are based on government directives that have no legal force. Law enforcement officers sometimes handle religious issues inappropriately, causing conflict between the government and the local people, he added.

Ma said the regional people's congress has been helping the National People's Congress to draft an anti-terrorism law, and may draw up a regional regulation after it is introduced.

"Legislation in Xinjiang will focus on combating terrorism and curbing the spread of religious extremism so social stability and lasting peace can be achieved," he added.

Legislation in Xinjiang will focus on combating terrorism and curbing the spread of religious extremism so social stability and lasting peace can be achieved."

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## Sam Manekshaw

Advantage of being Communist...Good work


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## TaiShang

Sam Manekshaw said:


> Advantage of being Communist...Good work



Advantage of being effective. Nothing to do with being Communist or not, I guess. Think US-PATRIOT Act.

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## terranMarine

TaiShang said:


> Advantage of being effective. Nothing to do with being Communist or not, I guess. Think US-PATRIOT Act.


Also 3000 ex PLA will be beefing up security in Xinjiang, we need hard measures to take down these scums.

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## TaiShang

terranMarine said:


> Also 3000 ex PLA will be beefing up security in Xinjiang, we need hard measures to take down these scums.



I agree. You need to kill off the malignant elements to prevent the cancer of political religiosity in the society. Whatever it takes.

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## StormShadow

BEIJING: Chinese state media said 15 people have been killed in an attack in the country's troubled western Xinjiang region. 

The official Xinhua News Agency said 14 other people were injured in what it said was a terrorist attack on Friday in Shache county. 

The Tianshan news portal said on Saturday that the attackers used vehicles, knives and explosives in the assault. It said the dead included 11 of the attackers. 

Such attacks have claimed dozens of lives in Xinjiang over the past year. 

Members of the region's Muslim Uighur (WEE-gur) minority group have bristled under what they say is repressive Chinese government rule.

Fifteen killed in 'terrorist attack' in China's Xinjiang: Report - The Times of India


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## he-man

RIP.

Hope this shows some chinese members that india is not the only country suffering from terrorism.

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## Nova2

Rest In Peace ! 
Hope those scums are sent to hell soon.


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## Sanchez

Quoted terrorist attack? What the hell does Times of India have in mind otherwise？

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## JSCh

This incident happened in Shache county where 4 civilian and 11 terrorist die.

Yarkant County - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shache (Yarkant) County or Yarkand County (lit. Cliff city[1]) is a county in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, China, located on the southern rim of the Taklamakan desert in the Tarim Basin. It is one of 11 counties administered under Kashgar Prefecture. Yarkant, usually written Yarkand in English, was the seat of an ancient Buddhist kingdom on the southern branch of the Silk Road. The county sits at an altitude of 1,189 metres (3,901 ft) and as of 2003 had a population of 373,492.

The fertile oasis is fed by the Yarkand River which flows north down from the Kunlun Mountains known historically as Congling mountains (lit. 'Onion Mountains' - from the abundance of wild onions found there). The oasis now covers 3,210 square kilometres (1,240 sq mi), but was likely far more extensive before a period of desiccation affected the region from the 3rd century CE onwards.

Today, Yarkant is a predominantly Uyghur settlement. The irrigated oasis farmland produces cotton, wheat, corn, fruits (especially pomegranates, pears and apricots), and walnuts. Yak and sheep graze in the highlands. Mineral deposits include petroleum, natural gas, gold, copper, lead, bauxite, granite and coal.​

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## Parul

Rest In Peace to Dead!


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## Sugarcane

JSCh said:


> This incident happened in Shache county where 4 civilian and 11 terrorist die.



R.I.P to civilians

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## jamahir

> Members of the region's Muslim Uighur (WEE-gur) minority group have bristled under what they say is repressive Chinese government rule.



times of india is mixing anti-china propaganda with criminal acts, without saying that the criminals may be from "hizb-ut-hehrir" group, which in turn is branch of the "tableeghi jamaat" mullah movement from india.

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## Yogijaat

pher said:


> what did you expect from west brain-washed indians?that is why they deserved more bombay attacks from those freedom fighters.


as far as i know when someone thinks of a country who wants to imitate the west only one country's name emerge and that is china.
and thank you for wishing well-being of us.


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## Yogijaat

jamahir said:


> times of india is mixing anti-china propaganda with criminal acts, without saying that the criminals may be from "hizb-ut-hehrir" group, which in turn is branch of the "tableeghi jamaat" mullah movement from india.


what the fuk did you mean?

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## jamahir

Yogijaat said:


> what the fuk did you mean?



calm down and read my post again.


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## mike2000

JSCh said:


> This incident happened in Shache county where 4 civilian and 11 terrorist die.
> 
> Yarkant County - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Shache (Yarkant) County or Yarkand County (lit. Cliff city[1]) is a county in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, China, located on the southern rim of the Taklamakan desert in the Tarim Basin. It is one of 11 counties administered under Kashgar Prefecture.* Yarkant, usually written Yarkand in English, was the seat of an ancient Buddhist kingdom on the southern branch of the Silk Road*. The county sits at an altitude of 1,189 metres (3,901 ft) and as of 2003 had a population of 373,492.
> 
> The fertile oasis is fed by the Yarkand River which flows north down from the Kunlun Mountains known historically as Congling mountains (lit. 'Onion Mountains' - from the abundance of wild onions found there). The oasis now covers 3,210 square kilometres (1,240 sq mi), but was likely far more extensive before a period of desiccation affected the region from the 3rd century CE onwards.
> 
> Today, Yarkant is a predominantly Uyghur settlement. The irrigated oasis farmland produces cotton, wheat, corn, fruits (especially pomegranates, pears and apricots), and walnuts. Yak and sheep graze in the highlands. Mineral deposits include petroleum, natural gas, gold, copper, lead, bauxite, granite and coal.​



lol So it was formerly a predominantly Buddhist region before muslim crusaders settled there? too bad some of these muslims extremists/jihadi islamist scums now want to cause havoc in the region. 

coming to topic, These terrorists scums wont stop until they are all readicated/captured,torutred and executed. Most importantly their madrassas/extremists ideologies should be stopped from the grassroot and prevented from spreading to younger ngenerations in the first place, if you dont stop/prevent their extremist views which are usually propagated through Madrassas and some mosques, then they will keep on brainwashing even more innocent youths/followers from adopting their jihadist views on Islam and continue with their killings/bombings/stabbings to thy kingdom come. So we all have to get to the root of this evil and uproot it, cutting the branches by capturing and execturing them is good, but it will eventually keep growing/producing news branches as far as we dont uproot the center of this evil. 
Also China will need to improve its intelligence gathering capabilities/spy network to infiltrate these terrorists scums groups before they strike. Just like we have been doing in the U.K, France and most of all U.S, reason why most of these scums are caught even beofore they think of ever start planning/acting on their evil acts on our soil. Our intelligence agencies keep good track of them, so they rarely ever strike us, maybe just 1 isolated incident here and there, but not a continous attack like its now happening in China. We could even give China a hand on this one. Since this scums are an ennemy of Mankind . RIP to the civilains/innocent dead, but not the 11 jihadists terrorists scums(who are now enjoying their virgins in heaven i suppose.)


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## mike2000

arnavgoswamikiller said:


> this is not terrorist attack....
> this is Uyghur independence movement....
> RIP Uyghur Freedom Fighters.........


 are u being sarcastic bro? ISIS is also fighting for the freedom of the syrian and Iraqi people, last i checked.

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## IBRIS

pher said:


> what did you expect from west brain-washed indians? that is why they deserved more bombay attacks from those freedom fighters.


Don't worry those who indulged in Bombay attacks are also training more terrorists to be sent to cities near you. So cross your fingers that they get caught or the news will be called From Pakistan with love.

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## haviZsultan

Down with terrorists. We should cooperate with the Chinese authorities and work together to fight terrorism. China is our best friend but this attack proves we face similar problems at times. I hope Chinese authorities arrest all the culprits.


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## kankan326

mike2000 said:


> lol So it was formerly a predominantly Buddhist region before muslim crusaders settled there? too bad some of these muslims extremists/jihadi islamist scums now want to cause havoc in the region.
> 
> coming to topic, These terrorists scums wont stop until they are all readicated/captured,torutred and executed. Most importantly their madrassas/extremists ideologies should be stopped from the grassroot and prevented from spreading to younger ngenerations in the first place, if you dont stop/prevent their extremist views which are usually propagated through Madrassas and some mosques, then they will keep on brainwashing even more innocent youths/followers from adopting their jihadist views on Islam and continue with their killings/bombings/stabbings to thy kingdom come. So we all have to get to the root of this evil and uproot it, cutting the branches by capturing and execturing them is good, but it will eventually keep growing/producing news branches as far as we dont uproot the center of this evil.
> Also China will need to improve its intelligence gathering capabilities/spy network to infiltrate these terrorists scums groups before they strike. Just like we have been doing in the U.K, France and most of all U.S, reason why most of these scums are caught even beofore they think of ever start planning/acting on their evil acts on our soil. Our intelligence agencies keep good track of them, so they rarely ever strike us, maybe just 1 isolated incident here and there, but not a continous attack like its now happening in China. We could even give China a hand on this one. Since this scums are an ennemy of Mankind . RIP to the civilains/innocent dead, but not the 11 jihadists terrorists scums(who are now enjoying their virgins in heaven i suppose.)


China is going to publish anti-terrorism law prohibiting children from any religion education. Good move, isn't it?

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## Brahma Bull

Now China hurry up and provide AID to your friend for fighting terrorism
RIP to the civilians.


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## Brahma Bull

China must hurry up and provide their friend even more AID to fight terrorism.
RIP to the civilians


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## Yogijaat

kankan326 said:


> China is going to publish anti-terrorism law prohibiting children from any religion education. Good move, isn't it?


which religion?


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## kankan326

Yogijaat said:


> which religion?


all

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## ashok mourya

Good move children before 16 or adulthood may kept outside of religious madras a education.


kankan326 said:


> China is going to publish anti-terrorism law prohibiting children from any religion education. Good move, isn't it?


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## Yogijaat

kankan326 said:


> all


what are the major religion in China. I read somewhere that most chinese are atheists.
and what about the cultural values? will that be banned too?


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## he-man

jamahir said:


> times of india is mixing anti-china propaganda with criminal acts, without saying that the criminals may be from "hizb-ut-hehrir" group, which in turn is branch of the "tableeghi jamaat" mullah movement from india.




U may want to get rid of this LSD from ur diet.

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## jamahir

he-man said:


> U may want to get rid of this LSD from ur diet.



i suggest you keep away from certain pdf members... they have poisoned your mind.


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## he-man

jamahir said:


> i suggest you keep away from certain pdf members... they have poisoned your mind.



Any proof of my poisoned posts??
I can show u 100's of urs where u think one religion is barbaric while other one is the true word of god.That line of thinking is not socialist so quit showing off when u have little liberal values urself.

Enough of this drama.

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## haviZsultan

he-man said:


> Any proof of my poisoned posts??
> I can show u 100's of urs where u think one religion is barbaric while other one is the true word of god.That line of thinking is not socialist so quit showing off when u have little liberal values urself.
> 
> Enough of this drama.



Hey its an open forum and its his choice if he wants to support communism. I suggest you listen to him and tolerate him. All our views make this forum what it is. A great place to learn and see the wonderful viewpoints of different people. At the post. We should work with China to eliminate evil terrorism.


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## Parul

haviZsultan said:


> Hey its an open forum and its his choice if he wants to support communism. I suggest you listen to him and tolerate him. All our views make this forum what it is. A great place to learn and see the wonderful viewpoints of different people. At the post. *We should work with China to eliminate evil terrorism*.



With that in mind one should eliminate the concept of: Good Terrorist and Bad Terrorist and One men's terrorist is other men's freedom fighter.

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## he-man

haviZsultan said:


> Hey its an open forum and its his choice if he wants to support communism. I suggest you listen to him and tolerate him. All our views make this forum what it is. A great place to learn and see the wonderful viewpoints of different people. At the post. We should work with China to eliminate evil terrorism.



I don't have mercy on people who claim to be socialists but are religious bigots actually.He has his freedom and i have mine too.

On post------Which terrorists are evil btw?Those who attack china or those who maim people in inda.I heard pakistan has different definition for both.

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## 李明皿

arnavgoswamikiller said:


> this is not terrorist attack....
> this is Uyghur independence movement....
> RIP Uyghur Freedom Fighters.........


you are utterly wrong! only the people who attack US are terrorists? you never go to China ,so you cannt made such a conclusion


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## ni8mare

haviZsultan said:


> Hey its an open forum and its his choice if he wants to support communism. I suggest you listen to him and tolerate him. All our views make this forum what it is. A great place to learn and see the wonderful viewpoints of different people. At the post. We should work with China to eliminate evil terrorism.


lol....he support socialism ..not communism
but problem is he continually bash hinduism.......so tolerate part does not work with him


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## Dem!god

RIP..


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## Parul

sree45 said:


> Are these good terrorists or bad terrorists?



Good Terrorist is the dead Terrorist.


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## root

Reduce them to dust these terrorist should be dealt with iron hands.


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## sree45

Sidak said:


> Good Terrorist is the dead Terrorist.



True... Death to terrorists..


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## ni8mare

RIP


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## Parul

sree45 said:


> True... Death to terrorists..



Insha Allah!


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## AgentOrange

he-man said:


> RIP.
> 
> Hope this shows some chinese members that india is not the only country suffering from terrorism.



There's no reason China and India shouldn't be cooperating on terrorism. And I mean a ruthless response to terrorists since force is the only thing they understand. 

IMO, China and India are the worst targets for terrorists. Both nations have over 1 billion people who despise terrorism and if it's a war of attrition, the terrorists will definitely bleed more.

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## AgentOrange

atatwolf said:


> This
> 
> Last week 300 Uighur arrived with their families in Turkey. They ran away from Han terrorism. If they were caught all of them would be killed.
> 
> I don't tolerate violence but calling all Uighur terrorist is terrorism in itself. China is a communist terrorist state.



Way to completely distort the meaning of terrorism. Do you support ISIS as well? I wouldn't be surprised if you did. Anyways, 4 Chinese (some of whom were probably ethnic Uighur) and 11 terrorists died. Not a great K/D ratio for China but if more Uighurs become terrorists, at this "exchange rate" there won't be any Uighurs left.

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## libertad

RIP to the innocents. As far as the war on terror goes, i'll take those odds. For every civilian that's killed, 3 terrorists die.

China needs to allow more freedom of religion, I think this would go a long way in preventing these kinds of incidents.

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## cirr

11 to 4， an acceptable ratio。

I believe that the security forces have been told to stop taking live prisoners。

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## GeHAC

libertad said:


> RIP to the innocents. As far as the war on terror goes, i'll take those odds. For every civilian that's killed, 3 terrorists die.
> 
> China needs to allow more freedom of religion, I think this would go a long way in preventing these kinds of incidents.


Nope,CPC doesn't press the freedom of religion.Some local government even give Beef and lamb allowance to Muslims.
Actually,Traditional Chinese are antitheists or pantheist which was appreciated before enlightenmentmovement of enlightement in Europe.Most citizens argues the government to focus on the religious influence to our society.


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## jaunty

How come these Chinese terrorists are so inefficient? The number of terrorists that die generally outnumber the number of civilian deaths.


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## terranMarine

jaunty said:


> How come these Chinese terrorists are so inefficient? The number of terrorists that die generally outnumber the number of civilian deaths.


So do you prefer the other way around then?

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## jaunty

terranMarine said:


> So do you prefer the other way around then?



No. 

Just pointing that out because it is highly unusual. I have my doubts about the numbers.


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## terranMarine

jaunty said:


> No.
> 
> Just pointing that out because it is highly unusual. I have my doubts about the numbers.



If not then why do you even claim they are inefficient? You give the impression they can do better than that judging from your sentence

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## jaunty

terranMarine said:


> If not then why do you even claim they are inefficient? You give the impression they can do better than that judging from your sentence



I did not mean to support terrorists if that's what you are getting at. I wish there were no terrorist attack at all. What I meant was that I am doubtful about these numbers because this is not the first time I have seen this; it is highly unusual and might I say improbable.


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## terranMarine

jaunty said:


> I did not mean to support terrorists if that's what you are getting at. I meant I am doubtful about these numbers because this is not the first time I have seen this; it is highly unusual and might I say improbable.


Then you should have said that from the beginning rather using the word inefficient. Read your own sentence again and see how others might take your meaning pal. I don't see you using the word "doubt" or "unusual" from that comment you made earlier

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## jaunty

terranMarine said:


> Then you should have said that from the beginning rather using the word inefficient. Read your own sentence again and see how others might take your meaning pal. I don't see you using the word "doubt" or "unusual" from that comment you made earlier



I think my skepticism was apparent even without using those words. Anyways now that I have cleared my position there should not be any issue. Cheers.


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## Agent Smith

hey chinese, you should be wary of the company you keep its better to have an enemy like us than to have friends like pakistan

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## Burhan Wani

Rip innocent men


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## opruh

all terrorists must be punished accordingly regardless of their nationality.
RIP to the civilians who died.

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## AgentOrange

jaunty said:


> I did not mean to support terrorists if that's what you are getting at. I wish there were no terrorist attack at all. What I meant was that I am doubtful about these numbers because this is not the first time I have seen this; it is highly unusual and might I say improbable.



It's hard getting firearms and explosives in China. Most terror attacks have been made with machetes and crude melee weaponry. With increased People's Armed Police patrols all over Xinjiang (reference that article about 100K more PAP being sent there), it's not surprising that the terrorists can only do a limited amount of damage before they're sent to paradise.

Here's a youtube vid showing what I'm talking about: (warning could be graphic to some viewers)







Notes about that video:

1)This was an event that happened several years ago where the terrorists were neutralized by normal Chinese street cops. PAP usually pack more firepower and carry shotguns and automatic weapons.

2) In the first part of the video, the two terrorists try to go into a mosque or religious center to try to stir up trouble. Loyal Uighur Chinese and Hui Muslim Chinese tell the two scumbags to fvkk off. Angry and feeling rejected, the two guys promptly run down the street hacking at people and then charging the police. And then the police put them to bed.

3) My only gripe is that the Chinese cops' pistols didn't have enough stopping power. The terrorists kept on getting back up.

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## StormShadow

AgentOrange said:


> It's hard getting firearms and explosives in China. Most terror attacks have been made with machetes and crude melee weaponry. With increased People's Armed Police patrols all over Xinjiang (reference that article about 100K more PAP being sent there), it's not surprising that the terrorists can only do a limited amount of damage before they're sent to paradise.
> 
> Here's a youtube vid showing what I'm talking about: (warning could be graphic to some viewers)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notes about that video:
> 
> 1)This was an event that happened several years ago where the terrorists were neutralized by normal Chinese street cops. PAP usually pack more firepower and carry shotguns and automatic weapons.
> 
> 2) In the first part of the video, the two terrorists try to go into a mosque or religious center to try to stir up trouble. Loyal Uighur Chinese and Hui Muslim Chinese tell the two scumbags to fvkk off. Angry and feeling rejected, the two guys promptly run down the street hacking at people and then charging the police. And then the police put them to bed.
> 
> 3) My only gripe is that the Chinese cops' pistols didn't have enough stopping power. The terrorists kept on getting back up.


Good job.
But one question...do the chinese install cctvs inside local mosques to monitor muslims activities?


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## AgentOrange

StormShadow said:


> Good job.
> But one question...do the chinese install cctvs inside local mosques to monitor muslims activities?



They do with some mosques, depending on geography. For instance, I doubt mosques in Beijing have cameras installed but who knows. China never did anything like this until the Uighur independence movement became radicalized and crossed into terrorism. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the government put CCTV cameras inside any government sanctioned religious building, not just Muslim ones.

I'm sure some people's feelings were hurt but the CCTV camera in this case exonerated the rest of the Uighurs in the mosque. It's clearly shown on footage that the rest of the people praying wanted nothing to do with the 2 terrorists and that likely saved them from any implications of collusion as well as helping the government close the case quickly.

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## StormShadow

AgentOrange said:


> They do with some mosques, depending on geography. China never did anything like this until the Uighur independence movement became radicalized and crossed into terrorism. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the government put CCTV cameras inside any government sanctioned religious building.
> 
> I'm sure some people's feelings were hurt but the CCTV camera in this case exonerated the rest of the Uighurs in the mosque. It's clearly shown on footage that the rest of the people praying wanted nothing to do with the 2 terrorists and that likely saved them from further government followups.


Good. National security above anything else. Consider yourself lucky for not have minority as.s licking politians.

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## A.M.

Sensationalized title. 4 civilians died while 11 attackers were killed. Good on Chinese security forces.


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## bolo

deleted . may be offensive to some members.


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## DoTell

kankan326 said:


> China is going to publish anti-terrorism law prohibiting children from any religion education. Good move, isn't it?



This is a bogus law. Communism by all means is a "religion" by itself. It is still being thought in schools at all levels. If the government is really sincere about not forcing any belief on the youth, they should stop force feeding communism ideology also. 

On the other hand though, it really doesn't matter whether they teach communism or not. Nowadays in China everyone is out to make money, nobody believes that sh!t anymore


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## TaiShang

DoTell said:


> This is a bogus law. Communism by all means is a "religion" by itself. It is still being thought in schools at all levels. If the government is really sincere about not forcing any belief on the youth, they should stop force feeding communism ideology also.
> 
> On the other hand though, it really doesn't matter whether they teach communism or not. Nowadays in China everyone is out to make money, nobody believes that sh!t anymore



Do not get arrested by ideological labels, No body believes in nothing but self-actualization. What you have said is not news. 

Cut the crap and just mind your own business. That's your religion.


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## sicsheep

all the reasons we need to work closer with Pakistani government on anti -terror.


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## TaiShang

*New railway to Xinjiang under construction*
2014-12-28 

XINING, Dec. 28 (Xinhua) -- Full-scale construction of a new railway that links the far western Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region with the neighboring Qinghai Province started on Sunday.

The 1,213-km-long line, which links Golmud in Qinghai and Korla in Xinjiang, is another railway line linking the remote area with other parts of the country besides the Lanxin railway linking the regional capital of Urumqi with Lanzhou, capital of Gansu Province.

Construction began in the Qinghai section on Sunday. Work began in the Xinjiang section on Nov. 16. At a cost of 37.64 billion yuan (6.15 billion U.S. dollars), the project is scheduled to take five years.

The new line is of great strategic significance as abundant oil and mineral resources are scattered along the line, said Sun Faping, deputy head of the Qinghai provincial academy of social sciences.

The line will cut the traffic time between Golmud and Korla from 26 hours to 12 hours.

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## Gandhi follower

BEIJING: The legislature of northwest China's disturbed region of Xinjiang has banned the wearing of Burqa by Muslim women. This is a significant decision in Muslim inhabited province, which also borders Muslim countries in Central Asia and Pakistan. 

The Communist Party leadership in Urumqi, provincial capital of Xinjiang, decided to ban the Burqa last month. Communist leaders feel Xinjiang is going through a phase of rising Islamic fundamentalism, which plays a role in the growth of separatism. 

Discussing the legislature's decision, the official Xinhua news agency said that " The regulation is seen as an effort to curb growing extremism that forced Uygur women to abandon their colorful traditional dress and wear black burqas". Xinhua also noted that the Burqa has been banned in Belgium and France, and that it is "not a national dress of Muslims". 

Xinjiang province is witness to regular terror attacks and clashes with security forces by separatists fighting to create an independent East Turkmenistan nation.

Xinjiang province bans burqa for Muslim women - The Times of India

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## gslv

full face veil should be banned. period.it can be used in terrorist acts.

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## p4kistan

gslv said:


> full face veil should be banned. period.it can be used in terrorist acts.



i think 99.9% of all terrorist attacks do not involve a burqa. invalid argument

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## Rafi

Their country, their rules.

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## Gazprom

can't blame them. islamist has recently killed 12 French journalists at Charlie hebo according to official view.


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## Jit

the originators of Islam the arabs - males wear western clothes whenever they want; their women shop victoria secret and prance around in 'jean cut' leggins....but the people who got converted to Islam elsewhere seem more attached to old desert customs than the arabs! 

Do they think women don't look at men that way? 

Ban burqa. It has become security hazard

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## Jit

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> China should also ban dog and cat meat being sold for human consumption in China. They will not since its the majority Han Chinese that eat Dog and Cat meat. So that makes it acceptable. But Hijab is a Muslim headdress worn by Muslim minority so they will ban it.



yeah just like Arabia bans building temples. Will you advise Arabia to allow for building a nice temple and synagogue and church in mecca? or atleast let these minority groups congregate for prayers in halls?


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## Tridibans

Rafi said:


> Their country, their rules.



Can it be said about France and Belgium ?



Rafi said:


> Their country, their rules.



Can it be said about France and Belgium ?


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## Cherokee

Jit said:


> yeah just like Arabia bans building temples. Will you advise Arabia to allow for building a nice temple and synagogue and church in mecca? or atleast let these minority groups congregate for prayers in halls?


 Even if they ban temples , their country their rules .

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## StormShadow

mujhaidind said:


> Muslims who support China just because their country has friendly relations with them need to introspect. There is nothing more disgusting than watching fellow Muslims supporting persecution of Muslim in other countries.


Says a person who supports other countries while staying, eating, drinking and breathing in this country.

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## Yogijaat

world should learn from china.
They know how to deal with terrorism.

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## Pakistani patriot

Rafi said:


> Their country, their rules.



True. Btw how many times has this thread been done here on pdf by Indians. I see this same type of thread almost every now and then . Indians trying hard to create a rift between China and Pakistan but they'll fail

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## Azizam

Xinhua says that it's going to be banned and previous it was banned in some cities of Xinjiang as I remember.

Xinjiang legislature approves burqa ban - Xinhua | English.news.cn




I am in favour of banning niqab purely for reason of minimising segregation.


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## ranjeet

p4kistan said:


> i think 99.9% of all terrorist attacks do not involve a burqa. invalid argument


Lal Masjid Cleric would agree with you,so what if he alone has corrupted the minds of thousands of people in Pakistan.

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## Echo_419

Gandhi follower said:


> BEIJING: The legislature of northwest China's disturbed region of Xinjiang has banned the wearing of Burqa by Muslim women. This is a significant decision in Muslim inhabited province, which also borders Muslim countries in Central Asia and Pakistan.
> 
> The Communist Party leadership in Urumqi, provincial capital of Xinjiang, decided to ban the Burqa last month. Communist leaders feel Xinjiang is going through a phase of rising Islamic fundamentalism, which plays a role in the growth of separatism.
> 
> Discussing the legislature's decision, the official Xinhua news agency said that " The regulation is seen as an effort to curb growing extremism that forced Uygur women to abandon their colorful traditional dress and wear black burqas". Xinhua also noted that the Burqa has been banned in Belgium and France, and that it is "not a national dress of Muslims".
> 
> Xinjiang province is witness to regular terror attacks and clashes with security forces by separatists fighting to create an independent East Turkmenistan nation.
> 
> Xinjiang province bans burqa for Muslim women - The Times of India



Their country their rules

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## ranjeet

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> China should also ban dog and cat meat being sold for human consumption in China. They will not since its the majority Han Chinese that eat Dog and Cat meat. So that makes it acceptable. But Hijab is a Muslim headdress worn by Muslim minority so they will ban it.


It's Burqa not Hijab .. damn I thought muslims knew the difference.


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## Rafi

Tridibans said:


> Can it be said about France and Belgium ?
> 
> 
> 
> Can it be said about France and Belgium ?



Yes, their country their rules, no woman in my family wear the burka and we are as Muslim as anyone.

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## RescueRanger

Their country, their rules. Full face Burqa is a security risk.

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## timetravel

Should be banned in India also.

Burqa not only is a security risk, it also encourages segregation, and also an indicator of lower status for women in society.

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## ArsalanKhan21

Jit said:


> yeah just like Arabia bans building temples.


Xinjian is Muslim majority province. There aren't any Saudi Arabian citizens that are Hindus.


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## Genesis

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Xinjian is Muslim majority province. There aren't any Saudi Arabian citizens that are Hindus.


really? Check again.

Keep in mind not all Uygurs are Muslims.


Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## black-hawk_101

Gandhi follower said:


> BEIJING: The legislature of northwest China's disturbed region of Xinjiang has banned the wearing of Burqa by Muslim women. This is a significant decision in Muslim inhabited province, which also borders Muslim countries in Central Asia and Pakistan.
> 
> The Communist Party leadership in Urumqi, provincial capital of Xinjiang, decided to ban the Burqa last month. Communist leaders feel Xinjiang is going through a phase of rising Islamic fundamentalism, which plays a role in the growth of separatism.
> 
> Discussing the legislature's decision, the official Xinhua news agency said that " The regulation is seen as an effort to curb growing extremism that forced Uygur women to abandon their colorful traditional dress and wear black burqas". Xinhua also noted that the Burqa has been banned in Belgium and France, and that it is "not a national dress of Muslims".
> 
> Xinjiang province is witness to regular terror attacks and clashes with security forces by separatists fighting to create an independent East Turkmenistan nation.
> 
> Xinjiang province bans burqa for Muslim women - The Times of India


They should stop making decisions against Muslims. Rather they should welcome them.


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## Always Neutral

Rafi said:


> Their country, their rules.



But when France did it all of you got your panties in a twist. If China buggers muslim values you bend over and accept it but if EU or USA did it you will claim muslims are being discriminated. I am happy China did it. We must ban it in the EU and claim we just followed China the best friend of the muslim world.

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## SenLin

But will be Uighur people/men still be allowed to wear knives?
Don't know if it's true, but i read here on PDF that they can do this because of cultural reasons.


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## ChineseTiger1986

Only the veil is now banned.

And we hope that both Uighurs and Huis can stick to their traditional dress.

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## Rafi

Always Neutral said:


> But when France did it all of you got your panties in a twist. If China buggers muslim values you bend over and accept it but if EU or USA did it you will claim muslims are being discriminated. I am happy China did it. We must ban it in the EU and claim we just followed China the best friend of the muslim world.



No - France their country their rules, so you're wrong, you moron.



ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the veil is now banned.
> 
> And we hope that both Uighurs and Huis can stick to their traditional dress.
> 
> View attachment 183254
> 
> 
> View attachment 183255



Which is beautiful and elegant.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Rafi said:


> Which is beautiful and elegant.



Yep, they are also Muslims with their own unique culture.

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## SenLin

As long as Hui women don't start to wear it, a ban in all of China will probably be not enforced.


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## KingWest

Im a muslim, but I wont mind if they ban the Burqa in the entire world.


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## Sasquatch

SenLin said:


> As long as Hui women don't start to wear it, a ban in all of China will probably be not enforced.



Some Hui women wear it, but they not much of concern as most Huis loyal to China. Some Uyghurs have more extremist mentality. Because of that it'd backfired, Han Chinese are the majority in Xinjiang now and will continue to increase.

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## MilSpec

good move.. all countries should adopt it.


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## Superboy

Gandhi follower said:


> The Communist Party leadership in Urumqi, provincial capital of Xinjiang, decided to ban the Burqa last month. Communist leaders feel Xinjiang is going through a phase of rising Islamic fundamentalism, which plays a role in the growth of separatism.




Such terrorists are not from Xinjiang. They are Taliban from outside China. The people of Xinjiang hate them.

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## war is peace

Do Hans marry from uyghurs and others or is it bad. Cus the girls seem descent.

Hi superboy you got dsi lol you and Indians.

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## SenLin

Hu Songshan said:


> Some Hui women wear it, but they not much of concern as most Huis loyal to China. Some Uyghurs have more extremist mentality. Because of that it'd backfired, Han Chinese are the majority in Xinjiang now and will continue to increase.



Are mosques in China monitored by the state? This is important i think. As long as the state knows what the clerics teach, they can effectively fight extremism.

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## Sasquatch

SenLin said:


> Are mosques in China monitored by the state? This is important i think. As long as the state knows what the clerics teach, they can effectively fight extremism.



Government approved clerics.

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## Rafi

Hu Songshan said:


> Government approved clerics.



As it should be.

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## coffee_cup

To be honest, I would like to see a full Burka ban in Pakistan as well. 

I fully support wearing modest Islamic dresses, but a full shuttle-cock Burqa? I think it is more of a sub-continet thing..

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## SenLin

Hu Songshan said:


> Government approved clerics.



That means that they have guidelines what & to what extant they can preach.
Still, they should be monitored to remove those who get out of line.


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## Jit

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Xinjian is Muslim majority province. There aren't any Saudi Arabian citizens that are Hindus.



what's that to do with religious freedom? There are Hindus living in Saudi Arabia.


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## AgentOrange

Burqas aren't even native to Xinjiang. They're an imported affectation that reeks of wahhabist influence. And that's especially true considering recent world events.

The ban is the right move. China recently banned celebrating Christmas in schools too so it's not like Muslims are the only ones singled out. The Chinese government is very serious about promoting a secular society.

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## ArsalanKhan21

AgentOrange said:


> Burqas aren't even native to Xinjiang.



The Han Chinese are also not native to Xinjiang.


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## AgentOrange

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> The Han Chinese are also not native to Xinjiang.



And neither are Uighurs and Islam, historically speaking. So what's your point?

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## RescueRanger

I have been to Urumqi it is a beautiful place and not as bad a people think. The Chinese are a rational people and have always ensured the separation of religion from politics. 

This is a commendable practice that I have noticed in the Chinese. To be totally fair to them, they are making decisions which are in their nations best interest.

Just like us Pakistanis get irate when sOmeone tries to teach us things we already know and have experienced, we should extend the same level of respect to other nations here.

China is a very interesting country with a very broad look on living life. Let them do what they feel is appropriate, after all it is their country and who knows better about their nations and the solutions then the people living and working there? 

And yes I am all for banning the Burqa even in Pakistan, it is unsightly, a security risk, it is not Islamic but cultural and should have no place in a modern, progressive nation.

Just my two cents.

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## root

Wearing burqa is arab culture why should we Pakistan care. No one really prefer to wear burqa in pakistan . also burqa should be banned in entire world due to terrorists activites.

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## 592257001

Gotta love it when it's always some wise *** Indian member that posts articles with their own Anti Sino-Pak or rather just Anti Sino-Islamic commentaries within. 


These Indians must think their cerebral capacity is as high as their caste, that nobody else in PDF can see through your deviant motives.

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## Yizhi

war is peace said:


> Do Hans marry from uyghurs and others or is it bad. Cus the girls seem descent.


marrying a minority in china:
1. no need to follow one child policy.
2. you can register your kids as minority thus enjoy extra plus points in college entrance exam.
3. Uighur girls are beautiful to Han chinese too.
as for no.2, i personally have a friend tried really hard to get himself a 'minority status'....he only has a remote relative that is true minority.....

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## Pakistani patriot

592257001 said:


> Gotta love it when it's always some wise *** Indian member that posts articles with their own Anti Sino-Pak or rather just Anti Sino-Islamic commentaries within.
> 
> 
> These Indians must think their cerebral capacity is as high as their caste, that nobody else in PDF can see through your deviant motives.



Lol exactly. This just sums it up. 
Too bad for them we ain't budging from our friendship.
And they make a thread after thread after thread only to have their hopes smashed.
Expect another thread in a week or so lol

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## jaunty

Always Neutral said:


> But when France did it all of you got your panties in a twist. If China buggers muslim values you bend over and accept it but if EU or USA did it you will claim muslims are being discriminated. I am happy China did it. We must ban it in the EU and claim we just followed China the best friend of the muslim world.



You are right, check the difference in the reactions from Pakistanis then 

France starts ban on full-face veil

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## Rafi

jaunty said:


> You are right, check the difference in the reactions from Pakistanis then
> 
> France starts ban on full-face veil



Friendship goes a long way to understanding.

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## jaunty

Rafi said:


> Friendship goes a long way to understanding.



In other words--hypocrisy!

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## BoQ77

p4kistan said:


> i think 99.9% of all terrorist attacks do not involve a burqa. invalid argument



What if a Burqa lady from Pakistan come to China for a vacation? Will she be forced to remove her burqa ?


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## Rafi

jaunty said:


> In other words--hypocrisy!



No because I don't care if any other country ban's it.


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## root

BoQ77 said:


> What if a Burqa lady from Pakistan come to China for a vacation? Will she be forced to remove her burqa ?


Come back when it happens also it is their country their rules saftey comes first then religion also i want full ban of burqa in pakistan as well.


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## opruh

BoQ77 said:


> What if a Burqa lady from Pakistan come to China for a vacation? Will she be forced to remove her burqa ?


No, because she is not Chinese.


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## GoGetIt

I don't understand why they want to wear burqa,and why they even take pictures

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## Eagle_Kashmir

Genesis said:


> really? Check again.
> 
> Keep in mind not all Uygurs are Muslims.
> 
> 
> Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Uyghur people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 


Not all people from Xinjiang are Muslims But Uighur people are Sunni Muslims


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## OrionHunter

Wow! If this had happened in India, our friends across the border would have gone berserk and called India a terrorist country and gone to the UN to declare it so! But then it's China - the all weather friend, stronger than steel, sweeter than honey, higher than Mt Everest and deeper than the Mariana's trench!! 

No one dare say anything about China!

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## 592257001

OrionHunter said:


> Wow! If this had happened in India, our friends across the border would have gone berserk and called India a terrorist country and gone to the UN to declare it so! But then it's China - the all weather friend, stronger than steel, sweeter than honey, higher than Mt Everest and deeper than the Mariana's trench!!
> 
> No one dare say anything about China!




That is because, despite the Chinese governments' actions, the motivations are purely from a security perspective, not from an atmosphere of anti-Islamic beliefs (Muslims, among other racial minorities in china, enjoy many government incentives programs that make Han Chinese like myself a bit jealous). as our strong ties with Pakistan and other Islamic states suggest. 




India on the other hand.....

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## ahojunk

GoGetIt said:


> I don't understand why they want to wear burqa,and why they even take pictures





Ha Ha Ha. You got a very good point.

It reminded me of a joke about pandas wanting their pictures taken in full color.

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## arbit

OrionHunter said:


> Wow! If this had happened in India, our friends across the border would have gone berserk and called India a terrorist country and gone to the UN to declare it so! But then it's China - the all weather friend, stronger than steel, sweeter than honey, higher than Mt Everest and deeper than the Mariana's trench!!
> 
> No one dare say anything about China!



 Even if China were to auction off the country's muslims in its backyard, you won't hear a word of protest from the custodians of muslim interests in Pakistan, since China is pretty much the only ' capable friend' they got in whole wide world.  
This friendship will last till the boundary issues with India are resolved or China wakes upto the islamist threat in its backyard. The latter is a long shot though cos Chinese are quite efficient that way! You mess with CCP and you are off to la la land. No coverage in news as well


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## Schutz

592257001 said:


> That is because, despite the Chinese governments' actions, the motivations are purely from a security perspective, not from an atmosphere of anti-Islamic beliefs (Muslims, among other racial minorities in china, enjoy many government incentives programs that make Han Chinese like myself a bit jealous). as our strong ties with Pakistan and other Islamic states suggest.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> India on the other hand.....



Programs like that exist everywhere, it gets them started but past that I can guarantee that they will have difficulties and encounter prejudice in favour of locals, if they wanted to start a career in finance for example I can imagine they will be just be pushed aside for a local han.


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## 592257001

Schutz said:


> Programs like that exist everywhere, it gets them started but past that I can guarantee that they will have difficulties and encounter prejudice in favour of locals, if they wanted to start a career in finance for example I can imagine they will be just be pushed aside for a local han.




That depends on how you define "local". In the province of Xinjiang where Uyghurs are of the majority, Han would be treated with a certain prejudice, just like how Uyghurs would be considered when they are some where that is of Han majority. It stems not from malice, but of the oldest human biological instinct to bond closer to those that appear to be your kin.


As to starting a career in areas such as finance, I have never heard of any preference in the choices between racial groups in China. In an enterprise setting, HR personnel will not give a damn about your race, if an Uyghur is more competent than an Han, the Uyghur will be picked, vise versa. It is all about making the most profit in capitalism.

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## Kinetic

Rafi said:


> Their country, their rules.




You even can go against Islam to support China, true friendship!!! This duality shows your true face.


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## Rafi

Kinetic said:


> You even can go against Islam to support China, true friendship!!! This duality shows your true face.



What's it to you, why get your panties in a bunch, true friendship - pregnant with hatred mr kinetic.


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## Always Neutral

Rafi said:


> No - France their country their rules, so you're wrong, you moron.
> 
> 
> 
> Which is beautiful and elegant.



And you idiot I was talking about how some muslim members here were cribbing about it. I think jaunty has already spanked you backside by posting the link of their reactions. take some medication now


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## Rafi

Always Neutral said:


> And you idiot I was talking about how some muslim members here were cribbing about it. I think jaunty has already spanked you backside by posting the link of their reactions. take some medication now



You want to spank my behind, why - you dirty old man, regarding me I don't give a fck France banned it, so why cry at me for it, you moron.

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## Always Neutral

Rafi said:


> You want to spank my behind, why - you dirty old man, regarding me I don't give a fck France banned it, so why cry at me for it, you moron.



Check Jaunty's link at muslim members reaction to the French banning the burkha and my replies and take a chill pill.


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## Rafi

Always Neutral said:


> Check Jaunty's link at muslim members reaction to the French banning the burkha and my replies and take a chill pill.



What does that have to do with me, I have no problem with French policies.


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## Always Neutral

Rafi said:


> What does that have to do with me, I have no problem with French policies.



Ok then go in peace. Its an offensive piece of dress in the West at least though it must be respected in the Saudi


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## Rafi

Always Neutral said:


> Ok then go in peace. Its an offensive piece of dress in the West at least though it must be respected in the Saudi



I would discourage any woman to wear that dress, covering your face denies you too communicate with other people as facial and body language makes the majority of human communication. 

It is wrongly stated as part of Islam, no one in my family can even think of wearing it, and even in Pakistan less than 5 percent of women wear it - even in conservative places.

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## Superboy

Xinjiang is not a province.

Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## TaiShang

*China's Xinjiang renovates 2,000-year-old irrigation system*


Cultural relics workers in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region have spent the past five years renovating an ancient subterranean irrigation system, according to a summary released by a local cultural relics bureau on Monday.

The karez irrigation system was built 2,000 years ago. The karez wells, which convey water from deep underground to the surface, are considered one of China's greatest surviving ancient man-made structures, along with the Great Wall and the Grand Canal.

Renovation started at the end of 2009 and, to date, four stages of renovations, covering 108 karez well systems with a total underground canal length of 18 km, have been carried out in the prefecture of Turpan, said Zhao Qiang, Party head with the cultural relics bureau of Turpan Prefecture.

More than 600 km of the underground canals were desilted and more than 10,000 vertical shafts have been repaired, Zhao said.

Total spending on the restoration has reached 45 million yuan (7.26 million US dollars).

Preparation for the fifth stage, which involves renovation of 15 karez wells, is under way and will start this year.

Traversing more than 5,000 kilometers, the karez wells are known as the "Great Underground Wall."

The karez well systems are composed of vertical shafts, subterranean and ground canals, and small reservoirs. The canals are supplied with water from the melted ice and snow in Xinjiang's Tianshan Mountains.

Turpan, the hottest and driest region in China, has been using the system to avoid water evaporation at the ground surface. Currently, there are more than 1,000 karez wells in Turpan prefecture, most of which have dried up because of groundwater recession and damage to the wells.

Karez wells are also found in nearby countries, including Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. In China, they can also be found in the provinces of Gansu, Shaanxi and Shanxi.

***

To have scientific development, each and every segment of society must be empowered. Certain dress codes are an impediment to women's development, including the archaic and torturing burqa. The move is a good one for the nation's progress.

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## Always Neutral

TaiShang said:


> *China's Xinjiang renovates 2,000-year-old irrigation system*
> 
> 
> Cultural relics workers in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region have spent the past five years renovating an ancient subterranean irrigation system, according to a summary released by a local cultural relics bureau on Monday.
> 
> 
> Karez wells are also found in nearby countries, including Afghanistan, Iran and Pakistan. In China, they can also be found in the provinces of Gansu, Shaanxi and Shanxi.
> 
> ***
> 
> To have scientific development, each and every segment of society must be empowered. Certain dress codes are an impediment to women's development, including the archaic and torturing burqa. The move is a good one for the nation's progress.



What does it have to do with Burkha? CPC sent you to change the topic?


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## TaiShang

*Better and Better *

For Muslim Chinese, "minority" means enrichment, not division

By Dwi Atmanta & Ina Parlina, Jakarta Post






_WELCOMING GUESTS: Villagers in Jingyuan County, Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region, decorate a family inn in their village on May 22, 2014 (XINHUA)_


A board showing pictures of 28 senior residents who have performed the haj pilgrimage stands at a park at the village gate.

Sixty-eight families comprising 620 people from the Hui ethnic group live in the village, which in 2013 was renovated under a government program devoted to the minority group.

Residents are Muslim Chinese, who make up nearly 36 percent of Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region's population of 6.4 million.

*At a glance, there are no differences between the Hui and the majority Han Chinese. Members of both groups speak and write the Chinese language, wear Chinese attire and celebrate the Chinese Lunar New Year.

"We live in coexistence with the Han people here," said 41-year-old Hui Muslim Guo Zhanwu, a farmer who now rents his land to others.*

He is of the third generation of his family to live in the village, sharing his house with his parents.

*Guo said that as a member of a minority group, he has never endured discrimination. Hui Muslims are different from the Han only in religious habits, marriage traditions and diet, he said.*

There are also several privileges, he adds. Hui Muslims are one of 55 ethnic minorities exempt from the government's one-child family planning policy.

He has three children: two daughters, 17 and 12 respectively, and a 5-year-old son.

*The Chinese Government recognizes religious freedom, allowing the nation's more-than 1.3 billion people, including an estimated 23 million Muslims, to profess a faith as long as it is in line with the law.*

Mosques boasting either Middle Eastern or Chinese architecture dot Yinchuan, the capital of Ningxia, and its surroundings. A six-century-old mosque in Tongxin county in Wuzhong has even been named a national cultural heritage site.

Ningxia has autonomy, allowing the introduction of several preferential policies for the Hui Muslims, including those related to boosting the local economy.

*The government here has declared Idul Fitri a holiday, established graveyards for Muslims and allowed the Hui to appoint their own governors.*

Wang Yuzhen, a Han Chinese woman working at WanTini, a family-run Muslim clothing factory in Wuzhong, said religious tolerance is evident in the factory, as well as the city.

"It's very pleasant to work here, where we interact like a family. We have lunch together in the factory's kitchen, which serves Muslim food," said Wang.

The factory, which exports its products to Egypt, Malaysia and Pakistan, employs more than 60 people, including about 30 Han Chinese.

*"We coexist very, very well. There is no difference, except for our habits," said Wang, who lives in the city. She earns more than 2,000 yuan ($317) per month, higher than the standard living cost of 1,500 yuan ($238) in the city.*

Yang Faxiang, the owner of WanTini, said that as part of a minority group he bought land for his factory in 1998 at a quarter of the normal price.

Ma Changbing, an official of Wuzhong, said that the Hui and Han live in harmony in the city and have not been affected by the recent attacks in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, home to a Muslim community in China's northwest.

"We live in unity here and [such incidents] do not concern us. We are among those demonstration zones, " Ma said.

*"For me ethnic unity is the key to China's progress," said Yang Wenyuan, who also uses his Islamic name, Sulaiman. He condemned the attacks in Xinjiang, which he said were perpetrated by terrorists.*

In Yongning, Muslims also said that they live in peace with other ethnic groups, facing no restrictions in performing their religious duties.

"It's easy to express our religious belief here," said Ma Yuefang, 70, on a visit to Najiahu Grand Mosque, one of the oldest mosques in China built in traditional Han style.

According to Ma, men come to the mosque to pray, while most women pray at home. However, a group of 20 to 30 women sometimes pray and recite the Koran at a separate hall in the mosque's compound.

An official of the mosque, Ding Yaoxian, said on normal day about 300 people visit and pray at the mosque, a figure that can swell to 1,000 on Fridays.

Jin Chunzi, Deputy Director General at the Department of Policies and Laws at the State Ethnic Affairs Commission, said protection of minorities, including Muslims, is the constitutional mandate of the Chinese Government.

Preferential policies for the minorities were introduced to keep the national unity of the world's most populous country.

*"We practice three main principles with regard to relationship between the majority and minority groups. First is equality among all nationals. Second is respect and protection of religious groups, believes and minority groups. Third is assistance for minority groups and those living in less developed regions," she said.*

She said her office has drafted laws and regulations to protect minorities and their religious beliefs in accordance with UN treaties on the protection of minority and indigenous rights.

For China, minorities are not a minor issue. As an old Chinese saying goes, minorities cannot live without the majority, the majority cannot live without the minorities and minorities cannot live without fellow minorities.

*The article was first published by The Jakarta Post. Both authors are journalists of the Indonesian newspaper
*

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## Kinetic

Rafi said:


> What's it to you, why get your panties in a bunch, true friendship - pregnant with hatred mr kinetic.




Because your ummah, Islam, and rules of Quran changes when it comes to China for rest it different though. Good that you accepted it. 

First it was US now China.


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## Kylin

*Police in China shoot dead six in restive Xinjiang*
*Police in China shoot dead six in restive Xinjiang - Yahoo News*
BEIJING (Reuters) - A group of "mobsters" on Monday tried to set off an explosive device in a business district in China's troubled western region of Xinjiang, prompting police to shoot six of them dead, the local government said.


Hundreds of people have been killed in resource-rich Xinjiang, strategically located on the borders of central Asia, in violence in the past two years between the Muslim Uighur people who call the region home and ethnic majority Han Chinese.

The government has also blamed attacks elsewhere in China, including Beijing, on Islamist militants from Xinjiang.

Monday's violence came two months after 15 people were killed when a group threw explosives into a crowded street of vendors selling food in Xinjiang.

Police in Shule county, south of the old Silk Road city of Kashgar, had acted on a tip-off about "a suspicious person carrying an explosive device", the Xinjiang government said on its official news website.

An axe-wielding individual tried to attack police officers and set off an explosive device, prompting the officers to shoot him, the government said.

The report added that police trying to dispose of an explosive device were attacked by five "thugs" who sought to detonate it, but did not make clear if this was a separate incident. Police killed the men, according to the government.

The report said there were no other casualties, but gave no details of the assailants.

China's allegations were an "excuse to cover up the excessive use of force", said Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for exile group the World Uyghur Congress.

"China's hostile policy will only provoke more turbulence there," he said in emailed comments.

Many Uighurs call Xinjiang East Turkestan. China often blames frequent outbreaks of violence there on extremists agitating for an independent nation.

Exiled Uighur groups and human rights activists say the government's repressive policies in Xinjiang, including controls on Islam, have provoked unrest. Beijing denies this.

In a previous outbreak of violence in Shule in 2008, at the time of the Olympic Games in Beijing, three security officers were stabbed to death and another wounded by attackers police described as "terrorists".

Xinjiang is crucial to China's growing energy needs, but analysts say the bulk of the proceeds from sales of its resources has gone to majority Han Chinese, stoking resentment among Uighurs.

China has blamed the East Turkestan Islamic Movement for past attacks, but experts and rights groups have cast doubt on its existence as a cohesive group.

(Reporting by Sui-Lee Wee; Editing by Nick Macfie and Clarence Fernandez)

I am surprised this news is not discussed yet, but just reading this article, the oozing double stand is just astonishing from such established western media giving what recently happened in Paris. I guess they were attacked by "mobsters" as well.

Well done police, good job btw.

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## TheMatador

Of course the Paris attacks were freedom fighters while Xinjiang separatists are terrorists. It's time to let truth prevail.

The police are sharp this time. Now we arrest the terrorists' families and interrogate them without mercy.

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## terranMarine

TheMatador said:


> Of course the Paris attacks were freedom fighters while Xinjiang separatists are terrorists. It's time to let truth prevail.
> 
> The police are sharp this time. Now we arrest the terrorists' families and interrogate them without mercy.



cut grass remove root

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## VCheng

After France and Belgium, here comes China, Pakistan's eternal and best friend:

Burqa banned in China's Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM

*Burqa banned in China's Xinjiang*
Dawn.com
Updated about 13 hours ago





Xinjiang is home to the Uighurs, a largely Muslim, Turkic-speaking group as well as a growing number of Han Chinese migrants who have poured into the region which borders Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kazakhstan. - Reuters photo


*China has banned the wearing of burqas in Urumqi, the capital city of Xinjiang,* where a majority of Muslims reside, said a report published on The Telegraph.

*Residents have been banned from wearing burqas in the city of 3.1 million people, in "an effort to curb growing extremism," state media had announced *earlier this week.

Xinjiang is home to the Uighurs, a largely Muslim, Turkic-speaking group as well as a growing number of Han Chinese migrants who have poured into the region which borders Pakistan, Afghanistan and Kazakhstan.

*"Burqas are not [a] traditional dress for Uighur women, and wearing them in public places is banned in countries such as Belgium and France," reported Xinhua, China's official news agency.*

Recently, there has been a rise in deadly clashes in China, which Beijing describes as Islamic terrorism. However, some experts claim that these clashes are due to ethnic tensions between Uighurs and Han Chinese migrants.

*The Chinese leadership insists that religious fanaticism is the driving force behind the recent rise in bloodshed. On the other hand, human rights groups argue that the government violates the Uighurs' rights to freedom of worship.*

*The groups also say that the Community Party's rigid policies on religion are serving to further radicalise Muslim youth in the region.*

Xinjiang's Communist Party chief Zhang Chunxian recently urged officials to "brandish the sword and advance against terrorists in a full-on approach".

In May last year, Beijing commenced a so-called "people's war on terror" following a market bombing in Urumqi which left 31 people dead.

Earlier this week, police in another part of Xinjiang stated that they had killed six "attackers" who had been attempting to launch an attack with bombs strapped to their bodies.


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## Steve781

There are no angry Muslims protesting against China anywhere. Anyone would think they were scared or something.


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## Hasbara Buster

I fully support this ban, the "burqa" is an insult to Islam. Muslims must stop being so idiotic to think that in order to be Muslim one has to be Arab first (i.e. those in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf). God is not an Arab and Arab culture has nothing to do with either God or Islam. Case closed.

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## ayesha.a

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Only the veil is now banned.
> 
> And we hope that both Uighurs and Huis can stick to their traditional dress.
> 
> View attachment 183254



Very pretty dress, what is it called?


----------



## TaiShang

First, Xinjiang, China, is a lot less "restive" than Ferguson, US.

Second, they were not a group of "mobsters" but "terrorists."

Third, there is not a violence between Uighurs and the Chinese; the Uighurs are also Chinese and overwhelmingly love their country.

Fourth, not "many Uighurs" but a small number of "terrorists" call Xinjiang East Turkestan.

Fifth, if "East Turkestan Islamic Movement" did not exist, then 9/11 was an inside job and Osama recorded all his videos in his CIA-provided safe-house.

Sixth, what is the point of spreading a Yahoo News piece of article, given that it is well-known as a terrorist symphatizing US news portal?

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## Yizhi

TaiShang said:


> Sixth, what is the point of spreading a Yahoo News piece of article, given that it is a known as terrorist symphatizer US news portal?


it's actually a Reuters one. don't know why OP posted the Yahoo source.
Police in China shoot dead six in restive Xinjiang| Reuters

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## Kyle Sun

Choke them to death in shit hole is a much better solution

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## Not Sure

Kylin said:


> China's allegations were an "excuse to cover up the excessive use of force", said *Dilxat Raxit*, spokesman for exile group the World Uyghur Congress.



Is that the Chinese spelling for Dilshad Rashid?


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## Kylin

Not Sure said:


> Is that the Chinese spelling for Dilshad Rashid?


He's Uyghur, they have both Uyghur and Chinese name, that's how his name spelled in Uyghur I guess.


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## Not Sure

Kylin said:


> He's Uyghur, they have both Uyghur and Chinese name, that's how his name spelled in Uyghur I guess.



Actually, what I meant was that the spellings differ with pronunciation. Quite often the names remain the same, even when spelled differently to suit the local culture. Such as Gautam Siddha became Qutan Xida.

It can be helpful to understand how their names are spelled in different regions so as to keep an eye on them whenever they cross international borders.


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## Beast

Xinjiang need a strong government like CCP to ensure it will transit to a better standard of living. If not, it will degrade just into another afganistan, Syria , Libya or Iraq with the so called freedom and free from oppression that ordinary uyghur do not expect it.

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## Butchcassidy

Not Sure said:


> Is that the Chinese spelling for Dilshad Rashid?


Yeah another x and it would have been banned on pdf

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## opruh

Good news, China must show no mercy to terrorists.

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## Hasbara Buster

I've never heard Turkish tv refer to them as Uyghur terrorists. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. For most Turks, only Kurds are terrorist.

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## Beast

Hasbara Buster said:


> I've never heard Turkish tv refer to them as Uyghur terrorists. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. For most Turks, only Kurds are terrorist.


Of cos, Kurd is fighting independent from turkey so they must be terrorist. Whether uyghur is dead or alive is none of turkish concern. So it doesn't matter to them.

Tell you what, Turkish having this kind of double standard will haunt them back. They must remember they are no more the Ottoman Empire. Whatever they do not others to do to them, they must not do it to others. 

Policeman killed in Istanbul suicide attack - Al Jazeera English

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## jamahir

Hasbara Buster said:


> I fully support this ban, the "burqa" is an insult to Islam.



truth.



Hasbara Buster said:


> Muslims must stop being so idiotic to think that in order to be Muslim one has to be Arab first (i.e. those in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf).



burqa is not arab... it comes from anywhere in the iran-afghan region.



Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> "Burqas are not [a] traditional dress for Uighur women



in recent years, burqa has been introduced into china, central asia, russia and many other places directly and indirectly by missionaries from india... essentially, the tableeghi jamaat... so if anyone wants to blame anyone, blame india.


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## ahojunk

KingWest said:


> Im a muslim, but I wont mind if they ban the Burqa in the entire world.





coffee_cup said:


> To be honest, I would like to see a full Burka ban in Pakistan as well.
> :





RescueRanger said:


> :
> And yes I am all for banning the Burqa even in Pakistan, it is unsightly, a security risk, it is not Islamic but cultural and should have no place in a modern, progressive nation.
> 
> Just my two cents.





root said:


> Wearing burqa is arab culture why should we Pakistan care. No one really prefer to wear burqa in pakistan . also burqa should be banned in entire world due to terrorists activites.





Hasbara Buster said:


> I fully support this ban, the "burqa" is an insult to Islam. Muslims must stop being so idiotic to think that in order to be Muslim one has to be Arab first (i.e. those in Saudi Arabia and the Gulf). God is not an Arab and Arab culture has nothing to do with either God or Islam. Case closed.



It looks like there are quite a number of you supporting the banning of the burqa.

IMHO, the burqa should be banned because:-
- it has nothing to do with Islam
- it is incredibly demeaning to women
- it is unsightly and ugly
- it is a potential security risk
- it is not conducive to one-on-one communication. The non-verbal (facial and body language) constitutes about 75% of communication.

Really, the burqa has no place in a modern progressive society. Yes, it still have a place in those backward societies, no problem if they choose to retain it.

China should promote a modern secular society based on Confucian values. It should ensure religion is removed from politics. Once you mixed politics with religion, the country is in trouble.

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## jamahir

ahojunk said:


> IMHO, the burqa should be banned because:-
> - it has nothing to do with Islam
> - it is incredibly demeaning to a women
> - it is unsightly and ugly
> - it is a potential security risk
> - it is not conducive to one-on-one communication. The non-verbal (facial and body language) constitutes about 75% of communication.



agree with all.



ahojunk said:


> China should promote a modern secular society based on Confucian values.



i reject.



ahojunk said:


> It should ensure religion is removed from politics.



china should be true to the socialist goal of realizing a communist humanity, and therefore must ready its people towards a post-religion phase.


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## SpArK

Well Done !


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## jamahir

Steve781 said:


> There are no angry Muslims protesting against China anywhere. Anyone would think they were scared or something.



you sound suspiciously like a hyper-nationalistic indian.


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## Rajaraja Chola

p4kistan said:


> i think 99.9% of all terrorist attacks do not involve a burqa. invalid argument



Still the risk of terrorist attacks from 0.01% and the risk of loss of lives are still there. 
Recently the trend even in Pakistan, Afg and Middle east is to use Burqa Bombers. 

However I believe only the face veil should be banned.


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## TaiShang

*Wind power capacity up 60 percent in Xinjiang*
January 19, 2015

The installed capacity of wind power in Xinjiang jumped 60 percent annually in 2014, to about eight million kilowatts, the region's economic planner said Monday.

Wind power now provides 16 percent of Xinjiang's needs, according to the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region Reform and Development Commission.

Xinjiang's wind power plants last year generated 14 billion kilowatt hours of electricity, an increase of 73 percent.

The wind power reserve in Xinjiang accounts for around 40 percent of the country's total.

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## TaiShang

*Drive against terrorism in Xinjiang shows result*
China Daily, January 20, 2015

The strike-hard campaign aimed at preventing large-scale terrorist attacks from happening in the northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region and spreading outside to other parts of China has shown initial results, said acting chairman of the region.

Shohrat Zakir, the newly appointed acting chairman of Xinjiang, made the remark in a government work report he delivered on the first day of the annual session of the 12th Xinjiang regional People's Congress in Urumqi, the capital of the region, on Tuesday.

*Both the central and regional government have allocated special funds in 2014 for the campaign to support legal departments in Xinjiang to step up the efforts to prevent and respond to terrorist attacks, according to the report released by the regional department of finance on Tuesday.*

The year-long campaign, which also aims to reduce the frequency of terrorist attacks, was launched the day after the terrorist attack at a morning market in Urumqi on May 22 left 39 dead and 94 injured. It will be extended to at least the end of this year, Zhang Chunxian, Party chief said earlier this month.

A series of terrorist attacks have happened in the Muslim-populated region in 2014. On July 28, the terrorist attack in Shache county, southern Xinjiang's Kashgar prefecture, claimed 37 lives and injured 13. Fifty-nine terrorists were shot dead at the scene and 215 arrested. It was the one of the deadliest attack in the region in recent years.

Some terrorists from Xinjiang have also launched attacks outside the region. Religious extremism is believed to be the cause of the increasing number of violent attacks.

"Everyone, every department and every prefecture should contribute to the region's long-term, complicated and tough battle against separatism and terrorism because it's an urgent mission in 2015," Shohrat said. "We must solve the problems of tradition with respect and handle religious issues with the rule of religion. Meanwhile, we must use the rule of law to crack down on terrorism."

*Besides causing casualty of the civilians, terrorist attacks have also slowed down the economic growth of the region in 2014.

Although the growth rate of Xinjiang's GDP reached 10 percent in 2014, which is above the national average growth rate of 7.4 percent, it is very likely to meet the 11 percent growth rate target set at the beginning of 2014.*

Affected by terrorist attacks in the region, the number of tourists visiting Xinjiang has dropped, stunting the tourism-related catering businesses and retail markets. It has dragged down the region's GDP growth by 0.7 percentage point, according to the report from the regional development and reform committee released on Tuesday.

*Despites the central government's plan to make Xinjiang a core trade hub linking China and Central Asian countries on the Silk Road Economic Belt proposed by President Xi Jinping in September 2013, the import and export volume in the region only increased by 0.4 percent year-on-year, which is 7.6 percentage point lower than expected and the slowest growth in the past five years.*

The growth is expected to pick up in 2015 because the countries along the economic belt will speed up construction of infrastructure, which will boost the export for iron and steel as well as machineries, the committee said.

*Shohrat said increasing employment in southern Xinjiang, which is relatively less developed, and giving priority to education are the keys to ensure the region's long-term stability.

"The regional government will provide vocational trainings for all junior or senior high school graduates in southern Xinjiang and teach them the national common language of China so they could find suitable employment," he said.*

Xinjiang will also support students of the Han ethnic group and students from other ethnic groups studying together in the same schools instead of going to schools just for Han students or ethnic students. They will also be encouraged to sit in the same class and live in the same dormitory, Shohrat added.

It is the first time that Shohrat delivered the government work report after Nur Bekri, former chairman, was appointed as the head of the National Energy Administration, the country's top energy agency and deputy director of the National development and Reform Commission on January 1.

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## TaiShang

*PLA strengthens Xinjiang forces to foil terror attacks*

_January 23, 2015_

China is strengthening its military power in its northwestern frontier region bordering Afghanistan and Central Asia.

The military reinforcement comes against a backdrop of United States troops pulling out of Afghanistan and extremists launching terrorist attacks on civilian targets.

People's Liberation Army troops based in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region will vigorously enforce border controls, according to their chief.

Peng Yong, commander of the PLA Xinjiang military region, said the army will continue to carry out "realistic combat training" and increase its ability to carry out a variety of military missions this year.

*The Xinjiang military region is a regional command that covers Xinjiang and the Ali area in the west of the Tibet autonomous region. "We have the responsibility to stay on high alert and strike hard against terrorist activities in the region," Peng said.*

Peng, a lieutenant general, made the remarks at the annual session of the 12th People's Congress of Xinjiang in Urumqi.

Three more PLA generals have been appointed to the Xinjiang military region, including Li Wei, a major general, who will serve as its commissar. The two other appointees, Ye Jianjun and Han Bingcheng, are also major generals.

Sources familiar with the Chinese military system said Xinjiang is the largest provincial-level military region in China. It has four deputy commanders and four deputy commissars, while other military regions normally have only one deputy commander and one deputy commissar.

Xinjiang shares a border with Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Xinjiang military region increased the number of routine patrols last year to guard against infiltration by terrorist cells after the planned withdrawal of US troops from Afghanistan.

Li Wei, an expert on anti-terrorism studies at the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations, who shares the same name as the major general, said, "The PLA troops in Xinjiang will deal with large-scale terrorist forces.

"They will concentrate especially on those carrying firearms smuggled from Pakistan and Afghanistan, rather than on individual terrorist attacks.

"They also need to keep an eye on the combat forces formed jointly by international and domestic terrorist groups."

Li said that following a series of terrorist attacks in Xinjiang, the situation there remains serious.

On July 28, a terrorist attack in the region claimed 37 lives and injured 13 other people. Fifty-nine terrorists were shot dead at the scene and 215 suspects arrested, in one of the deadliest attacks in Xinjiang in recent years.

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## TaiShang

*Urumqi applies for more intellectual property patents*
(Tianshannet) Updated: 2015-January-21 

The Intellectual Property Office of Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region reported that the province’s patent application hit a record high of more than 10,000 items in 2014, with nearly 2,4000 on invention and 3,000 on design, according to xinhuanet.com.

To develop strategic industries, the province is supporting patent application by providing 24 million yuan ($ 3.88 million) subsidies in 2014, improving management in major cities, industrial zones and enterprises, and designating the cities of Urumqi and Karamay and other areas as pilot sites.


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## TaiShang

Amazing Yili River Valley in Xinjiang, CHINA



​

Yili River Valley is located in China's Yili Kazak Autonomous Prefecture, northwestern part of Xinjiang, China. It borders Russia and Mongolia in the northeast, and connects Changji Hui Autonomous Prefecture and Bayinguoleng Mongol Autonomous Prefecture in the southeast. After May each year, lavenders begin to blossom almost everywhere around the valley and turn the place into a sea of purple.[Photo/bbs.fengniao]

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## TaiShang

Amazing Yili River Valley in Xinjiang, CHINA -- II

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## AgentOrange

Absolutely stunning!

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## Yizhi

TaiShang said:


>


love the grasslands.
but, why am i hungry looking at this?

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## TaiShang

Yizhi said:


> love the grasslands.
> but, why am i hungry looking at this?



LOL. In Taiwan you can find vendors selling BBQ Xinjiang beef and lamb. A bit more expensive but delicious.

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## Aepsilons

Yizhi said:


> love the grasslands.
> but, why am i hungry looking at this?



lol , i'm going to hold my tongue in what i was originally about to say. Anyways, yes, i agree , the grasslands are so beautiful and vast !



TaiShang said:


> LOL. In Taiwan you can find vendors selling BBQ Xinjiang beef and lamb. A bit more expensive but delicious.



How much are they selling it for ?

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## naveen mishra

beautiful

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## TaiShang

Nihonjin1051 said:


> lol , i'm going to hold my tongue in what i was originally about to say. Anyways, yes, i agree , the grasslands are so beautiful and vast !
> 
> How much are they selling it for ?



Three-four pieces on a stick used to sell for (last time I tasted, some half a year ago) 60 Yuan (200+-JPYen). Not really that expensive, but definitely expensive for a student living mostly on TA money. LOL.

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## opruh

China is truly a beautiful country

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## Aepsilons

TaiShang said:


> Three-four pieces on a stick used to sell for (last time I tasted, some half a year ago) 60 Yuan (200+-JPYen). Not really that expensive, but definitely expensive for a student living mostly on TA money. LOL.



Since I didn't eat dinner yet, now I've just developed a hunger for beef , or some kind of brisket.

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## ChineseTiger1986

This is what I call a true paradise.

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## AgentOrange

Yizhi said:


> love the grasslands.
> but, why am i hungry looking at this?



Ugh. Lamb/mutton is the only thing I can't eat. I can't stand the gaminess of the meat. Anyone else have this problem? I will literally eat anything in front of me but not lamb.


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## terranMarine

Nihonjin1051 said:


> Since I didn't eat dinner yet, now I've just developed a hunger for beef , or some kind of brisket.


Beef brisket noodles

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## Aepsilons

terranMarine said:


> Beef brisket noodles



You're teasing me! 



AgentOrange said:


> Ugh. Lamb/mutton is the only thing I can't eat. I can't stand the gaminess of the meat. Anyone else have this problem? I will literally eat anything in front of me but not lamb.



LOL. No to lamb? What about goat?


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## Orakzai

i want to go there 
added to my list of places to go to.


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## khujliwal

heaven

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## farhan_9909

Beautiful

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## BuddhaPalm

AgentOrange said:


> Ugh. Lamb/mutton is the only thing I can't eat. I can't stand the gaminess of the meat. Anyone else have this problem? I will literally eat anything in front of me but not lamb.


Dog okay?


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## Sulman Badshah

sweet

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## cirr



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## Pangu

Beautiful! The wide expanse truly lift one's spirit! Allow me to share this Beautiful song - 昴, by 谷村新司. A fitting song for the place.

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## cirr



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## TaiShang

Xinjiang is truly a beautiful province of China.

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## cirr



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## Tractor



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## karan21

Beautifullllll


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## Tractor



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## gau8av

absolutely stunning !


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## powastick

TaiShang said:


> Amazing Yili River Valley in Xinjiang, CHINA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> Yili River Valley is located in China's Yili Kazak Autonomous Prefecture, northwestern part of Xinjiang, China. It borders Russia and Mongolia in the northeast, and connects Changji Hui Autonomous Prefecture and Bayinguoleng Mongol Autonomous Prefecture in the southeast. After May each year, lavenders begin to blossom almost everywhere around the valley and turn the place into a sea of purple.[Photo/bbs.fengniao]
> 
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> ​
> 
> 
> 
> ​
> 
> 
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> ​
> 
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> ​
> 
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> ​
> 
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> ​


This few days I cannot access a lot of chinese website. I see no picture here. I can access Baidu, but extremely slow.


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## bolo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This is what I call a true paradise.


China has many paradise like places though you never know by reading western news.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang economy expands 10 percent*

_January 27, 2015_

The economy of China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region grew by 10 percent in 2014, faster than the national average of 7.4 percent, the local statistics bureau said on Tuesday.

The growth rate was "not easy to achieve", said Wang Zhongshan, chief of the statistics bureau, as Xinjiang was under the pressure of oil, steel and cement price fluctuations.

Wang said the regional government had managed to stabilize growth, continue reform measures and adjust administrative structure.

The average disposable income of Xinjiang residents rose 11.5 percent and its fiscal revenue increased 9.9 percent.

The bureau said the autonomous region's economy would still have to deal with insufficient demand and falling industrial profits.

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## Yizhi

Xinjiang: surging demand for production materials | HKTDC

development in Xinjing deserves a thread.

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## TaiShang

With HSR and the Silk Road Initiative, Xinjiang is going to be one of the hubs of Central Asian trade. 

*Xinjiang’s first high-speed rail gets Silk Road project going*

The first high-speed rail in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region began operating on Sunday, slashing travel time between the regional capital of Urumqi and the eastern city of Hami by half to three hours. This comes as China said it will promote travel to countries along the Silk Road in 2015.

The 530-kilometer rail line is designed to run at speeds of over 200 kilometers per hour and is part of the 1,776-kilometer Lanxin high-speed railway linking Urumqi with Lanzhou, capital of the northwestern province of Gansu, which will be put into service by the end of this year.

The railway crosses a vast expanse of the Gobi Desert and windy areas. It will be connected further with China's high-speed rail network.

The Xinjiang railway bureau said a high-speed railway connecting Lanzhou and Beijing is now under construction and expected to be completed by 2017, which will reduce travel time between Urumqi and Beijing from the current 41 hours to 16 hours.

As the only railway connecting Xinjiang with other provincial regions, the original Lanxin track has a designed transport capacity of only about 75 million tons per year, which is far below the increasing demands of freight and passengers.

The new line, however, will unleash the region's transportation capacity by handling most passenger travel and enabling the old line to focus on freight transport.

Du Jiang, the deputy director of the China National Tourism Administration, said the decision to promote travel was made against the backdrop of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road initiatives which were proposed by China to boost regional economic and infrastructure cooperation, as well as people-to-people exchange in Asia.

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## TaiShang

Kumul






Hami






Hami National Theater





Artux Peoples' Square





Beitun





Sailimu Lake





Urumqi





Urumqi Peoples' Square

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## TaiShang

当天，在《小苹果》集体舞蹈比赛中，参赛队有学生、宗教人士、妇女、干部职工等表演队，参赛选手用优美的舞姿展示现代农民的风采，唱响了自觉维护民族团结、抵制非法极端宗教的的主旋律。同时，各参赛代表队在比赛前，还自编自演的小品、相声、麦西来甫、民族舞蹈等文艺节目，吸引周边上千名群众观看了比赛。 “听说乡上要举办舞蹈比赛，村民们报名非常积极踊跃。”罕南力克镇塔瓦克其村支部书记艾买尔江·买海提说，参加《小苹果》集体舞蹈比赛不仅丰富了村民的业余文化生活，也让村民在寓教于乐中接受“去极端化”宣教教育。 (Xinhua)











Super cute dancing imams. 宗教人士代表队 Team religion, LOL.

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## Yizhi

bravo! Team Religion!

Chinese Armed Police (Jilin Province) version.






enjoy the dance


to provide background information of why @TaiShang started this thread:
The Uyghur issue | Page 34

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## TaiShang

Yizhi said:


> bravo! Team Religion!



Aren't the imams cute? That's the lovely face of spiritual belief.

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## Tractor

MUSIC
筷子兄弟-小苹果（清远Djk仔 2014 ReMix）新版ClubDance--DJ娱乐网


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## TaiShang

I searched Youku and Youtube for the footage but to no avail.

Has anyone seen a footage of the event by any chance?



Tractor said:


> MUSIC
> 筷子兄弟-小苹果（清远Djk仔 2014 ReMix）新版ClubDance--DJ娱乐网



For some reason, the link did not work on my browser.

I found this:

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## magic-007

Yizhi said:


> bravo! Team Religion!
> 
> Chinese Armed Police (Jilin Province) version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> enjoy the dance
> 
> 
> to provide background information of why @TaiShang started this thread:
> The Uyghur issue | Page 34


 you do not blame them on their weird behaviors ,since they said themselves brains were washed by washing machine.

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## TaiShang

Yizhi said:


> to provide background information of why @TaiShang started this thread:



There is a storm in Turkey president's own (state) and religious zealot media (as I was informed by my colleague) as to the dancing imams. LOL. 

Not miraculously, all from the same source (World Bulletin - News Desk), which is itself a Turkey news portal with Turkish, Arabic and English content. The news has been cooked inside the newsroom, probably one of radical reporters cutting and pasting the original Xinhua picture and adding his/her own interpretation.

From this, the entire Turkey Islamist and President's media spread the BS.

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## Edison Chen



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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang herdsman finds 17-pound gold nugget*
_2015-02-06_




A herder shows a gold nugget in his house in Qinghe county, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, 

Feb 5, 2015. The 7.85-kg gold nugget found on Jan 30 is 23 centimeters long, 18 centimeters wide, and 8 centimeters thick. It has attracted many visitors to his house. [Photo: China News Service/ Zhu Xinfeng]
A herdsman in China's far western Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region found a 17-pound (7.85-kilogram) gold nugget that was "practically lying on bare ground".

*The Kazak herdsman, Berek Sawut, from Qinghe County in Altay Prefecture made the extraordinary discovery around 5 p.m. last Friday. The estimated price for such an unexpected luck, assuming the nugget is 80 percent pure (Nuggets are usually 80 to 90 percent pure), is a whopping 1.6 million yuan (255,313 US dollars) based on latest gold price.*

Zhu Xinfeng, a local expert said the price of natural gold, considering its uniqueness, is often several times higher than that of standard gold.

The random-shaped gold nugget is about 23 centimeters long, 18 centimeters on its widest side and 8 centimeters at its thickest.

A gold nugget is a naturally produced irregular piece of gold, and is most frequently found through mining. The name Altay means gold in Mongolian. A 1.84-kg gold nugget was also found in Altay in 2010.

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## TaiShang

Apart from its cute dancing competitions, Xinjiang also witnesses continues improvement in its vital infrastructure.

*480,000 Xinjiang rural residents to access drinking water*
2015-02-07

URUMQI, Feb. 7 (Xinhua) -- Around 480,000 rural residents in China's far western Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region will have access to clean and safe drinking water this year, said the regional government on Friday.

The central authorities and regional government will invest 329 million yuan (about 54 million U.S. dollars) in 2015 to water projects, according to the regional development and reform commission.

*By the end of this year, more than 3.4 million residents and 440,000 teachers and students in rural and pastoral areas of Xinjiang will gain access to drinking water that meets safety standard, the commission said.*

Since 2011, Xinjiang has planned to spend more than three billion yuan in building water supply projects, especially in rural areas.

***

*Cave tombs discovered in Xinjiang*
2015-02-05

URUMQI, Feb. 5 (Xinhua) -- Chinese archaeologists have identified a cliff cave burial site in Tashkurgan Tajik Autonomous County on the Pamirs Plateau in farwest Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

Three cave tombs were found in high cliffs in the county after a region-wide heritage survey in 2014, said Ai Tao from the Xinjiang Archaeological Institute.

Besides human bones, infant corpses were found sealed inside niches in the walls and covered by rocks or earth.

*Ai said such a custom was rare in China, but local Tashkurgans did bury stillborn babies in this way until a few decades ago.

A cluster of 102 tombs, 40 percent of which were made for infants, were unearthed in nearby Kezilesu Kirgiz Autonomous Prefecture in 2013.*

It is believed that cave burial, which can also be found in China's southwestern provinces of Yunnan and Guizhou, was practiced as far back as 4,000 years ago.

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## GoGetIt

The Indonesian and Chinese governments have agreed to enhance cooperation in the exchange of information on nine terrorism suspects from the Uighur region in Xinjiang, who are believed to have fled to terror-torn Poso in Central Sulawesi.

The cooperation agreement was signed by the head of the National Counterterrorism Agency (BNPT) Comr. Gen. Saut Usman and China’s Deputy Public Security Minister Meng Hongwei in a ceremony in Beijing on Tuesday.

According to the information received from the Indonesian Embassy in Beijing, the Uighur terrorism suspects have been included in a list of international terrorist groups.

"They are believed to have fled to Poso by taking the land route through Myanmar, southern Thailand and Malaysia. From Malaysia, *they entered Indonesia through Medan with Turkish passports* and they posed as asylum seekers when they were in Medan,” he said as quoted by Antara news agency.

According to Saut, the terrorism suspects went to Puncak in Bogor to join a group of people from the Middle East who wanted to go to Poso.

He said the police in Central Sulawesi have arrested four of the nine Uighur terrorism suspects who had entered Poso, while three had fled into the Poso jungle and two others escaped to Malaysia.

The police said that the four arrestees initially admitted to have come from the Uighur region in China, but after further investigation, they retracted their statements and said they came from their hometown in Turkey.

Saut said the police had difficulty questioning the four because they gave different statements.

The nine were believed to be part of the Uighur separatist group that launched a terrorist attack on a train station in Kunming, Yunnan province in southwestern China, on March 1, 2014, killing 33 people and wounding 133 others. The five captured will likely be extradited to China as the two countries signed an extradition treaty in 2009.

RI, China hunting down Xinjiang terrorism suspects in Poso | The Jakarta Post

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## TaiShang

Good move. Regional cooperation is key to fight terrorism and Indonesia and Malaysia should be at the forefront of the regional efforts alongside with China.

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## welcomeJason

anilindia said:


> Good move. Main problem is in Pakistan which has now become epicenter of world terrorism.


nothing with pakistan,turkey supported that.

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## anilindia

welcomeJason said:


> nothing with pakistan,turkey supported that.


They are now becoming part of global jihad. Pakistan will be main centre of that in future.

From his Pakistan hideout, Uighur leader vows revenge on China

China Wonders if Pakistan Is Responsible for Xinjiang Violence | The Diplomat

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## welcomeJason

anilindia said:


> They are now becoming part of global jihad. Pakistan will be main centre of that in future.
> 
> From his Pakistan hideout, Uighur leader vows revenge on China
> 
> China Wonders if Pakistan Is Responsible for Xinjiang Violence | The Diplomat


Actually I think ISIS is still supported by USA to make troubles and conflicts in asia . And it has many similarities with the base.

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## Edison Chen



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## TaiShang

Thank you to our Indonesian partners in the fight against terrorism

***

*Kunming terrorist attack suspects nabbed in Indonesia*
February 13, 2015

The Chinese and Indonesian governments exchanged information on nine terrorist suspects, believed to be from the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, who fled to Indonesia after plotting an attack in China last year, Indonesian media reported.






_Sreen shot from China Central Television's news program shows a suspect of the Kunming train station terrorist attack sitting in the intermediate court of Kunming, the capital city of Southwest China's Yunnan Province, Sept 12, 2014 [Photo /screen shot from China Central Television] _

*The Indonesian police arrested four of the nine. Three fled into the jungle and two others escaped to Malaysia. The captured suspects are likely to be extradited to China as the two countries signed an extradition treaty in 2009, Jakata Post reported.*

*The nine were believed to be part of the group that launched the terrorist attack in March at a train station in Kunming, Yunnan Province, where 33 people were killed and 133 wounded, said Saut Usman, head of the National Counterterrorism Agency of Indonesia Saut made the remarks after he signed an agreement in Beijing with Meng Hongwei, deputy Public Security Minister of China on Tuesday as a part of an efforts to further enhance information sharing.*

The suspects fled to Poso, Indonesia, by a land route through Myanmar, southern Thailand and Malaysia. From Malaysia, they entered Indonesia with Turkish passports, posing as asylum seekers, Saut said.

Saut said the police had difficulty questioning the four suspects, who were ultimately arrested, because they gave inconsistent statements. *They initially admitted having come from Xinjiang, but under further questioning they retracted their statements and said they came from a town in Turkey.*

"Religious extremists from China now use Southeast Asia as transit points before joining terrorist groups in the Middle East. So international anti-terrorism cooperation is crucial for China," said Li Wei, an anti-terrorism studies researcher at the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations.

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## TaiShang

*China strengthens financial support to S. Xinjiang*
February 12, 2015

China's financial regulators will increase policy support to southern Xinjiang to stimulate economic development and safeguard social stability, an official guideline said Thursday.

*Measures including deepening indirect fund-raising, expanding direct financing, promoting insurance, encouraging financial innovation and stepping up infrastructure will be adopted to benefit the west China region.*

The guideline was jointly released by the People's Bank of China and three state commissions respectively in charge of banking, securities and insurance sectors.

The regulators will implement favorable monetary policies, such as differentiated required reserve, re-lending and rediscount to guide financial institutions to increase credit supply to south Xinjiang region, especially for agriculture and small firms.

China's commercial banks should delegate more power to their branches in the region and improve tolerance to non-performing loans, under the condition that risks were well controlled, the guideline said.

The guideline also encouraged state-owned banks to set up branches in counties of south Xinjiang where banks are inadequate and promoted the establishment of private banks in the region.

Measures including expanding financing channels, encouraging agricultural insurance and improving financial circumstance could also be expected in the region.

In addition, the guideline said the authorities should continue to strengthen efforts to crack down on terrorism-related money laundering.

The multi-ethic southern Xinjiang is one of the less-developed regions in China, still plagued by a harsh desert environment and poor infrastructure.

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## ahojunk

Id Kah Mosque, Kashgar, Xinjiang

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## TaiShang

Fukang, Xinjiang, CHINA











Tianchi Lake






Bole, Xinjiang, CHINA 






Sailimu Lake, Xinjiang, CHINA







Loulan Ruins, Xinjiang, CHINA





Bosten Lake, Xinjiang, CHINA

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## powastick

TaiShang said:


> Loulan Ruins, Xinjiang, CHINA


I'm pretty sure that is the Gaint's Causeway in Great Britain. I did a search on Loulan Ruins with this as the result.




\

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## Tractor

TaiShang said:


> Fukang, Xinjiang, CHINA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tianchi Lake
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bole, Xinjiang, CHINA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sailimu Lake, Xinjiang, CHINA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loulan Ruins, Xinjiang, CHINA
> 
> 
> Bosten Lake, Xinjiang, CHINA







This is the Moraine Lake in Banff National Park ,Canada.

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## TaiShang

Tacheng















Tumxuk





Turpan





Xinjiang Folk Dance





Turpan Hotel





The Grape Valley alley

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## milvipes

Curiously most places in Xinjiang have Mongolian names instead of Uyghur ones.

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## hans

WOW, Turpan Hotel
I stayed there for 2 weeks in 2012...
Nice experience!



TaiShang said:


> Tacheng
> 
> 
> Tumxuk
> 
> Turpan
> 
> Xinjiang Folk Dance
> 
> Turpan Hotel
> 
> The Grape Valley alley

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## TaiShang

Yining, Xinjiang, CHINA






Baitula Mosque





Lli River Bridge






Lin Zexu Momorial





Shihezi, Premier Zhou Enlai Memorial





Army Reclamation Museum





Shihezi City, Xinjiang, CHINA

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## haidian

The newly opened Xinjiang high speed railway is a vast improvement to this old style train.

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## haidian

*China extends high-speed rail network to Xinjiang*

The Lanzhou–Xinjiang High-Speed Railway, also known as Lanzhou–Xinjiang Passenger Railway orLanxin Second Railway (兰新铁路第二双线), is a high-speed rail in northwestern China from Lanzhou in Gansu Province to Ürümqi in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

Construction work began on November 4, 2009. The 1,776-kilometre (1,104 mi) railway took four years to complete, of which, 795 kilometres (494 mi) is in Gansu, 268 kilometres (167 mi) in Qinghai and 713 kilometres (443 mi) in Xinjiang. Track laying for the line was completed on November 16, 2013. 31 stationswill be built along the line. The project costs 143.5 billion yuan.

Unlike the existing Lanxin railway, which runs entirely in Gansu and Xinjiang, the new high-speed rail is routed from Lanzhou to Xining in Qinghai Province before heading northwest across the Qilian Mountains into the Hexi Corridor at Zhangye. The rail tracks in the section near Qilianshan No. 2 Tunnel is at 3,607 metres (11,834 ft) above sea level,making it the highest high-speed rail track in the world.

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## haidian



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## haidian

The Lanzhou–Xinjiang High-Speed Railway

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## haidian

Near Shanshan, the railway will go through the _hundred-li wind zone_, where desert wind constantly blows most days of a year.

There's about 462 kilometers of route is installed with the windbreak facilities to protect the trains in the strong wind regions.






CRH5 train in Hami,Xinjiang,Northwest of China.

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## haidian



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## haidian

From people's wear and vehicles they drive one can guess that this Xinjiang documentary must be made a least 35 years ago, when there was no terrorism and violence while people lived in harmony.


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## haidian

、

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## AndrewJin

i‘ve been to Xinjiang in 2013. I'll post my entire Xinjiang trip in My Adventures Across China
some previews






View attachment 196720

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## TaiShang

AndrewJin said:


> i‘ve been to Xinjiang in 2013. I'll post my entire Xinjiang trip in My Adventures Across China
> some previews
> View attachment 196717
> View attachment 196718
> View attachment 196720
> View attachment 196723



Amazing. And looking forward to seeing them. 

This thread is to post news and images from across Xinjiang, mostly cultural, but security-related posts are also welcome. 

*CCTV News*

Frontier guards in ‪#‎China‬'s ‪#‎Xinjiang‬ Region patrolled border areas during ‪#‎SpringFestival‬ to ensure the nation's security. The soldiers braved severe weather of minus 30 degrees Celsius and surveyed the installations with care.

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## AndrewJin

haidian said:


> The newly opened Xinjiang high speed railway is a vast improvement to this old style train.


Indeed. But sad fact is that the maximum speed of this line is just 200km/h, a less sensible design for such a long distance.

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## yahoocom1984

Xinjiang has so many different ethnic groups, and most of them are muslims

But only some of uyghur people clash with Han in Xinjiang, this is ethnic related issue, not religion related.

Because the other islamic minority groups like Hui chinese muslim, Tajiks, Uzbeks, kazakhs, salars, kyrgyzs,

They all don't have any problems, because in reality, CCP protects muslim people's interests.

*There are over 20000 mosques in XInjiang alone and 90% of them were built in recent 30 years*


The main goal of uyghur separatist is to establish "*East Turkistan republic*" in Xinjiang, and their former slogan is " *cleansing of Han and Hui, and kicked the Kazakhs out* (杀汉灭回,驱逐哈萨)"

*The uyghur separatist established first Eastern Turkistan republic in 1930s and it gained support from Soviet Union, *

*but it was destroyed by Hui Chinese muslim general Ma zhongying's Hui muslim army*

The Northwest Chinese muslim warlord Ma zhongying helped National government to defeat uyghur separatists and recovered Xinjiang.

So from that time, uyghur separatists not only hate Han Chinese, they also hate Hui Chinese, because Hui Muslim Chinese army destroyed first East Turkistan republic



*Hui Chinese muslim general Ma zhongying who led his army destroyed "First Eastern Turkistan republic" by uyghur separatists in 1930s*


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## dragonrider1984

The *Russian Chinese population* are basically *descents of the* *Russian refugees during Russian Civil war*

During Russian Civil war, hundreds of Russian people fled to China to seek refugee. Most of them live in today's Xinjiang and Northeastern part of China.

During that time, in Harbin city alone, there were 200,000 Russian residents in the city during 1920s. The Chinese army even recruited many ethnic Russian soldiers during the 1920s.

*After world war 2, most of Russians returned to Russia or immigrated to other countries, but some of them still remain in China.*


*The Russian people live in Xinjiang are still pure Russians, and they speak Russian language.*

*While the Russian Chinese population live in Northeast China, are basically Russian-Chinese mixing ethnics, parts of their ancestors come from Russia, but now they become 100% Chinese because they don't speak Russian language and practice Russian culture anymore.*


This is the difference between *Russian Chinese live in Xinjiang and Russian Chinese live in Northeast China*.

*These are the documentaries with English or English subtitle*


*Russian Chinese live in Northeast China*

*Story of a Russian Chinese История русской китайском (Englsih sub)*





*This documentary of Russian Chinese in Northeast China don't have English subtitle*







*Russian Chinese live in Xinjiang, China( They still preserve much of the Russian cultures)*

*Russian Minority in Xinjiang (English)*
*



**



**



*

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## Hindustani78

By PTI | 9 Jun, 2015, 04.40PM IST
China conducts first military mobility test on bullet train for rushing troops to Xinjiang - The Economic Times

BEIJING: China has successfully conducted the first-ever military mobility test by rushing troops and weapons on its bullet train to the restive Muslim-majority Xinjiang province, aimed at evaluating its performance in quick movement of soldiers during a crisis. 

Terming the test as a milestone in the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) mobility, the China National Defence Daily said that the trial has been successfully completed on the Lanzhou-Xinjiang high-speed railway in northwest China .

An analysis of the trial run held on June 2 evaluated the train when it is fully loaded with troops, soldiers' personal weapons placed on the luggage racks as well as in the spare room at both ends of each carriage. 

Another test carried out with troops carrying Type-40 rocket launchers and Type-120 bazookas showed that the train's personnel transport capacity will be reduced to 80 per cent. 

The data gathered at the test will be applied to the future emergency mobility of military personnel in the Chinese PLA Lanzhou Military Region, state-run China.org.cn reported. 

To transport light weapons easily and safely, the Lanzhou railway authority specially made 1,000 sets of rifle stands, holsters and ropes, said Jiang Xiaolin, chief of transport of the military representative office at Lanzhou Railway Bureau. 

These simple facilities had proved both practical and reliable throughout the test, he said. 

Chinese bullet trains travels at a speed of about 350 kmph. It now has about 40 bullet train lines with 16,000 kms of high speed tracks. 

China's extensive rail network in Tibet not far from Arunachal Pradesh providing the facility to move troops and weapons has evoked concerns in India prompting it to undertake rail, road and air development in its border region.


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## ahtan_china

Is the picture available?

Is the picture available?


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## Hamartia Antidote

Hindustani78 said:


> By PTI | 9 Jun, 2015, 04.40PM IST
> China conducts first military mobility test on bullet train for rushing troops to Xinjiang - The Economic Times
> 
> BEIJING: China has successfully conducted the first-ever military mobility test by rushing troops and weapons on its bullet train to the restive Muslim-majority Xinjiang province, aimed at evaluating its performance in quick movement of soldiers during a crisis.
> 
> Terming the test as a milestone in the People's Liberation Army's (PLA) mobility, the China National Defence Daily said that the trial has been successfully completed on the Lanzhou-Xinjiang high-speed railway in northwest China .
> 
> An analysis of the trial run held on June 2 evaluated the train when it is fully loaded with troops, soldiers' personal weapons placed on the luggage racks as well as in the spare room at both ends of each carriage.
> 
> .



Hopefully the military has its own trains.
Not a good strategy mixing mitary on civilian vehicles as you'll now make civilian trains a target.

Just buy the same trains and paint them green or something.


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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang launches cargo train service to Moscow*
June 11, 2015




A cargo train service linking Urumqi with Moscow was launched on Wednesday. (People.cn/Photo)

URUMQI, June 10 -- Railway authorities in China's far western Xinjiang region on Wednesday launched a cargo train service linking its regional capital of Urumqi with Moscow.

The one more cargo train service westward can help boost the development of the northwestern autonomous region, a "core area" of the Silk Road economic belt, said Liu Jianxin, vice governor of Xinjiang, at the launch ceremony.

Since March 2014, Xinjiang has opened cargo train service to Kazakhstan, Georgia, Iran,Turkey and also Chelyabinsk of Russia.

*The first train, loaded with 1,300 tonnes of PVC, left Urumqi at 6:15 p.m. and is scheduled to reach Moscow more than 4,000 km away in about ten days. It will return with wood pulp from Russia.*

*Wang Hongxin, chairman of Xinjiang Zhongtai Chemical Co., Ltd., said the cargo service can help drive the company's annual sales of PVC by 10 percent.*

By the second half of the year, more than three cargo trains will run between Xinjiang and the destinations in Russia and also central and western Asia per week.

*The trains can then transport 50 billion yuan (8.1 billion U.S. dollars) of cargo a year, Liu said. *

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## AndrewJin

Hope one day the eurasia freight corridor could be upgraded to a heavy haul railway.

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## Zarvan

Armed police responded to the attack and killed 15 suspects �designated as terrorists".
BEIJING (AFP) - At least 18 people are dead after ethnic Uighurs attacked police with knives andbombs at a traffic checkpoint in China s western Xinjiang region, Radio Free Asia reported on Wednesday.

The attack occurred on Monday in a district of the southern city of Kashgar, where tensions between Muslim Uighurs that call the region home and the majority Han Chinese have led to bloodshed in recent years.

Suspects killed several police officers with knives and bombs after speeding through a traffic checkpoint in a car in Kashgar s Tahtakoruk district, United States-based Radio Free Asia said, citing Turghun Memet, an officer at a nearby police station.

Armed police responded to the attack and killed 15 suspects “designated as terrorists,” Radio Free Asia cited Memet as saying.

The attack comes at the beginning of the Muslim holy month of Ramazan, a sensitive time in Xinjiang after an uptick in attacks over the past three years in which hundreds have died, blamed by Beijing on Islamist militants.

Repeated calls to the Xinjiang government news office were not answered. Such incidents are frequently reported in overseas media but not confirmed by the Chinese government until days later, if ever.

Exiled Uighur groups and human rights activists say repressive government policies in Xinjiang, including controls on Islam and on Uighur culture, have provoked unrest, a claim that Beijing denies. 
At least 18 dead in attack in China's Xinjiang | World | Dunya News


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## Icewolf

Hope China wipes them all out

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## Rangila

This is just the first part of the story.
Now wait for the second part = Chinese retribution.
And watch the fun.
Where is my Pepsi & popcorn please.

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## Kyle Sun

Good job ! if it's true and FK radio free asia.

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## Norwegian

*At least 18 dead in attack in China's Xinjiang*






Exiled Uighur groups and human rights activists say repressive government policies in Xinjiang, including controls on Islam and on Uighur culture, have provoked unrest, a claim that Beijing denies. ─ AFP/File
BEIJING: At least 18 people are dead after ethnic Uighurs attacked police with knives and bombs at a traffic checkpoint in China's western Xinjiang region, Radio Free Asia reported on Wednesday.

The attack occurred on Monday in a district of the southern city of Kashgar, where tensions between Muslim Uighurs that call the region home and the majority Han Chinese have led to bloodshed in recent years.

Suspects killed several police officers with knives and bombs after speeding through a traffic checkpoint in a car in Kashgar's Tahtakoruk district, United States-based Radio Free Asia said, citing Turghun Memet, an officer at a nearby police station.

Armed police responded to the attack and killed 15 suspects “designated as terrorists,” Radio Free Asia cited Memet as saying.

The attack comes at the beginning of the Muslim holy month of Ramazan, a sensitive time in Xinjiang after an uptick in attacks over the past three years in which hundreds have died, blamed by Beijing on Islamist militants.

Repeated calls to the Xinjiang government news office were not answered. Such incidents are frequently reported in overseas media but not confirmed by the Chinese government until days later, if ever.

Exiled Uighur groups and human rights activists say repressive government policies in Xinjiang, including controls on Islam and on Uighur culture, have provoked unrest, a claim that Beijing denies.
At least 18 dead in attack in China's Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM

It keeps happening like this year after year? Why can't these Uighur Muslims integrate into broader Chinese society like the Hui Muslims?

@TimeTraveller @Jazzbot @Chinese-Dragon @TheFlyingPretzel @TaiShang @sword1947 @yusheng @JSCh @GeHAC @kankan326 @Beidou2020 @VelocuR @sicsheep @dlclong @rockstar08 @ChineseTiger1986 @Pak_Sher @trident2010 @UKBengali @IbnTaymiyyah @MastanKhan @Major Sam @ghazaliy2k @PiyaraPakistan @dexter @Green Angel


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## TaiShang

I am not sure positive discrimination is a prudent policy even even though it complies with the classical leftist pro-minority inclination.

*Extra points give Xinjiang students college entrance boost*
2015-6-24 0:33:01

Just as most high school graduates are anxiously checking their scores in the national college entrance examinations (_gaokao_), picking the universities they dream of attending, students in four regions of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region had their exciting news on Tuesday. 

A new policy will allow graduates in Hotan, Kashgar, Aksu and Kirgiz of southern Xinjiang to have up to an extra 50 credits on their _gaokao_ scores, according to their circumstances. For the 50 bonus points, students should have either one parent from 11 ethnic groups, including Uyghur, Mongolian and Tibetan. Besides, they need to be ethnic students taking the _gaokao_ in the Chinese language, or taking Chinese as a first language but taking the _gaokao_ in an ethnic language. 

It is expected there will be a sharp uptick in admissions, as previously only a maximum of 10 extra points could be added for these students. 

Maintaining ethnic harmony in Xinjiang is a delicate task. When it involves the _gaokao_, an event that shapes the fate of high school graduates nationwide, the policy will have more far-reaching implications.

This local policy comes as similar nationwide university admission preferential policies have been reduced to ensure transparency and equality. 

This included awarding points for extra-curricular activities. So the new policy in Xinjiang has sparked concern over whether this means inequality for Han students, the majority ethnic group in China. 

These bonus point systems can be controversial due to perceived unfairness - a comparison is affirmative action in the US. But this special policy is tailored to the actual needs of Xinjiang to narrow the gap in education with the average level of the country. 

With the policy, students from ethnic groups are given a strong boost to apply for elite universities and hence have opportunities to expand their horizons. They will form their own understanding based on the reality and not be subjected to ill-intended temptation. 

As the latest policy specifies, it will also encourage indirectly different ethnic minorities and Han people to learn each others' languages and intermarry with each other, enhancing their mutual understanding. This will have far-reaching influence on the region when there are deliberate efforts by separatist forces to estrange Han people and other ethnic minorities, endangering Xinjiang's stability. 

This is an active step to invigorate Xinjiang fundamentally and there may be new problems arising during the implementation. However, with guidance, Xinjiang will find ways to maintain its ethnic features, and meanwhile preserving its stability and prosperity.

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## third eye

Its only a question of time before they graduate from knives to weapons & bombs.

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## unbiasedopinion

BEIJING: At least 18 people are dead after ethnic Uighurs attacked police with knives and bombs at a traffic checkpoint in China's western Xinjiang region, Radio Free Asia reported on Wednesday.

The attack occurred on Monday in a district of the southern city of Kashgar, where tensions between Muslim Uighurs that call the region home and the majority Han Chinese have led to bloodshed in recent years.

Suspects killed several police officers with knives and bombs after speeding through a traffic checkpoint in a car in Kashgar's Tahtakoruk district, United States-based Radio Free Asia said, citing Turghun Memet, an officer at a nearby police station.

Armed police responded to the attack and killed 15 suspects “designated as terrorists,” Radio Free Asia cited Memet as saying.

The attack comes at the beginning of the Muslim holy month of Ramazan, a sensitive time in Xinjiang after an uptick in attacks over the past three years in which hundreds have died, blamed by Beijing on Islamist militants.

Repeated calls to the Xinjiang government news office were not answered. Such incidents are frequently reported in overseas media but not confirmed by the Chinese government until days later, if ever.

Exiled Uighur groups and human rights activists say repressive government policies in Xinjiang, including controls on Islam and on Uighur culture, have provoked unrest, a claim that Beijing denies.

At least 18 dead in attack in China's Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM

Clearly China has no respect for Islam..They are just crushing the Muslims who are just following their religion. eg.. Ban on fasting during Ramazan.


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## unbiasedopinion

First US keep on denying that there is no terrorist hub in Pakistan and then 9/11 happen.....now chinese are denying and showering their love on extremists present in Pakistan for pity benefit....lets see what future holds for china...

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

third eye said:


> Its only a question of time before they graduate from knives to weapons & bombs.


They did and have used bombs


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## cirr

Minor irritants。

The exchange ratio can be bettered next time though。

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## thesolar65

Give/Force/Lure them with beer festival and they go out of control!!


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## saurav

Iron Fist to trouble makers. These terrorists should be dealt harshly. China should make examples of terrorists and their sympathizers.

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## saurav

Give harshest treatment to them terrorists. No sympathy for them.

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## trident2010

In China one can never ask for any freedom irrespective of their beliefs and inclinations. China will do what it thinks good for its country. So I am afraid it will be like this until China becomes a democratic country.


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## PatriotLover

RIP

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## PatriotLover

Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its muslim population to eat during Ramazan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The opressed or the opressor?


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## PatriotLover

sicsheep said:


> haha be terrorist or criminals, you die if you attack the police in any country, who cares if they use their bare fists.




Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its muslim population to eat during Ramazan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The opressed or the opressor?

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## RoadRunner401

PatriotLover said:


> Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in Muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its Muslim population to eat during Ramadan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The oppressed or the oppressor?



I think its the guy hiding his true identity, and pretending to be Pakistani.

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## Beidou2020

PatriotLover said:


> Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its muslim population to eat during Ramazan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The opressed or the opressor?



Anyone that is a threat to the CPC will be dealt with in utterly ruthless and uncompromising fashion.
No negotiation. No compromise. No nothing.
End of story!

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## mpk1988

While, some of the policies might go a little overboard, I believe it would be in the best interests of the people of Xinjiang to integrate themselves more into the national sphere and stop taking the route of many of the islamic communities in Europe.


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## qwerrty

so it's true, han chinese don't treat them equally. those people also can have as many children as they want, while han chinese can only have 1. bad chinese

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## Beast

qwerrty said:


> so it's true, han chinese don't treat them equally. those people also can have as many children as they want, while han chinese can only have 1. bad chinese


Now is 2

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## qcninja

PatriotLover said:


> Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its muslim population to eat during Ramazan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The opressed or the opressor?


good question. Next


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## Place Of Space

PatriotLover said:


> Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its muslim population to eat during Ramazan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The opressed or the opressor?



Just yesterday, I replied to you, once they act attack move, they will be shot.


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## Skywalker

qcninja said:


> Save Lakhvi at the cost of your citizens China. Good sacrifice for **** friends.
> 
> 
> Killers of terrorists are not called terrorist.


So the 2000 Muslims that dog massacred were all terrorists.


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## Solomon2

*At Least 18 Dead in Ramadan Attack on Police Checkpoint in Xinjiang*
2015-06-23




Chinese police officers and paramilitary policemen patrol a street in Kashgar city, July 23, 2014.


 ImagineChina

At least 18 people are dead following a knife and bomb attack by a group of ethnic Uyghurs on a police traffic checkpoint in northwestern China’s troubled Xinjiang region, sources said Tuesday, amid harsh restrictions on observance of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

One source said the incident, which occurred Monday in the Tahtakoruk district of southwestern Xinjiang’s Kashgar (in Chinese, Kashi) city, left as many as 28 people dead, several of whom were bystanders.

The attack began when a car sped through a traffic checkpoint without stopping, Turghun Memet, an officer with the nearby Heyhag district police station told RFA’s Uyghur Service.

“When one of the policemen at the checkpoint ran out of the booth, the car backed up, hitting him and breaking his leg,” Memet said.

“Two other suspects then rushed out of the car, using knives to attack and kill two police officers who had come to rescue their comrade,” he said.

The remaining traffic police, who do not carry guns, called for backup from Memet’s department and the People’s Armed Police (PAP).

“By the time armed police reached the scene, three more suspects had arrived by sidecar motorcycle and attacked the checkpoint and police cars with explosives, killing one regular police officer, another traffic policeman and one auxiliary officer,” Memet said.

“They also injured four other officers and damaged a police vehicle,” he said.

“At that point, our [armed officers] arrived and killed 15 suspects we designated as terrorists.”

Memet said the car used by the attackers had displayed a license plate from Kizilsu Kirghiz Autonomous Prefecture’s Atush (in Chinese, Atushi) city, but he was told they were residents of Kashgar prefecture’s Yengisheher (Shule) and Peyziwat (Jiashi) counties.

“The security is tight in [downtown Kashgar], so they chose to attack an area on the outskirts of the city,” he said.

“They were in possession of simple weapons, so they targeted [an unarmed] traffic police checkpoint.”

*Information ‘tightly controlled’*

A police officer from Kashgar’s Ostengboyi station, near the site of the attack, confirmed the incident to RFA, but said it was unclear how many people had died.

“The number of the dead varies even among the police—especially when it comes to the number of female suspects,” the officer said on condition of anonymity, adding that he had heard either three or eight women were involved in the attack.

“Some are saying that all of the suspects were killed, while others say some were injured and taken to the hospital for treatment,” he said.

“Information about this kind of incident is always tightly controlled—not even the police are given the details. But people are saying that the dead numbered around 20.”

The officer noted that the attack occurred during the sensitive month of Ramadan and had “a massive effect” on the inhabitants of the city.

“Even the police are panicked and the situation is still very tense right now.”

An officer from the Qoghan police station, which has jurisdiction over the site of the incident, also said the attackers were from Yengisheher and Peyziwat counties, but decided to target Kashgar because the city is more populated.

“I assume that they intended to do more damage in a bigger crowd in Kashgar city,” he said, adding that an investigation into the attack was ongoing.

*‘Running for their lives’*

A food vendor who works near where the attack occurred said the sound of explosions and prolonged gunfire prompted him to open his shop door a crack so he could see what was happening.

“I saw people running for their lives in all directions when the police fired, including a lot of women who were crying and screaming,” he said, adding that if the women had been among the attackers “they would not have run and cried.”

“We weren’t given any information about the suspects’ identities. The government usually refers to them as ‘terrorists’ in this kind of situation and they may do so this time as well.”

A retired government worker, who also declined to give his name, said he had heard from a police officer that “28 people were killed in the incident, including six attackers and three police, while the others were all bystanders.”

“It seems the police who arrived at the spot were either panicked or encouraged by the ‘strike hard’ policy, because they opened fire indiscriminately and many people who were not linked to the attackers got killed,” he said.

Authorities have launched a “strike hard” campaign in Xinjiang in the name of fighting separatism, religious extremism, and terrorism, following a string of violent incidents that have left hundreds dead in recent years.

The government worker said he believed the incident was prompted by the restrictions put in place by authorities during the month of Ramadan, which he called “very extreme.”

“I think this is the first reaction to this year’s Ramadan restrictions,” he said.

“If such restrictions were implemented in other parts of the [Muslim] world, they would have led to bloody incidents on a mass scale, but we Uyghurs are a defenseless and helpless people and this is the reaction.”

*Ramadan restrictions*

The attack comes a week after millions of Uyghurs began observance of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan under increasing official pressure not to fast.

Uyghur officials and other state employees like teachers have been banned from fasting, and it is against the law for children under 18 to take part in religious activities.

Restaurants in the region are typically required to stay open all day, even if the owners are Muslim, and Uyghur children and young people are often required to attend free lunches in the region's schools and universities to avoid the dawn-to-dusk fast traditionally observed during Ramadan.

Turkic-speaking minority Uyghurs have complained about pervasive ethnic discrimination, religious repression, and cultural suppression by Chinese authorities.

Last October, authorities tightened rules forbidding anyone under the age of 18 from following a religion, targeting families whose children studied the Quran or fasted during Ramadan with hefty fines.

Authorities in the Hotan, Kashgar, and Aksu prefectures of Xinjiang have forced Uyghur parents to sign pledges promising not to allow their children to participate in religious activities, the Germany-based World Uyghur Congress exile group has said.

_*Reported by Shohret Hoshur for RFA’s Uyghur Service. Translated by Mamatjan Juma. Written in English by Joshua Lipes.*_


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## djsjs

Emilly David said:


> 15 out of 18 deads were terrorists lmao. Terrorists attacked police check point with knives and bombs and they managed to kii 3 cops only. No doubt most of the suspects were civilians in general who got caught in between but China labelled them as terrorists.


how many should they kill???
btw, why are you so stupid


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## Edison Chen

This is disgusting!! So brutal!!


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## third eye

pigtaker said:


> china should seal off the border with pakistan permanently, then all problems solved.



Tell this to the Pakistanis..


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## Götterdämmerung

*Watch this! *(don't let the title mislead you) The interview starts with Xinjiang amd NATO Operation Gladio B.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Kill all terrorists, hit them hard..They are big threat for Peace. ..Even in last Ramadan they killed many innocent Chinese people.

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## IR-TR

Beautiful, 15 of the 18 were terrorists. Very efficient response by the Chinese security forces. I was afraid it was all civilians who died. China needs to destroy any and every secessionist and/or terrorist minority in the country. Pacify the animals.

Radio 'Free Asia'. These propaganda organizations that only serve to destabilize other countries. Had them in Europe, in the middle east, also in central asia. Azerbaijan kicked them out as well. Bastards were operating in an office in Baku ILLEGALY! Oh how I wish for the swift downfall of the US.

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## [Bregs]

These terrorists have no religion and no permanent loyalties to any one

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## IR-TR

Don't blame Pakistan, their government would do anything to stop this. Their pretty much one and only ally is China, and China invests a lot in it. Pakistan has NO REASON what so ever to want that area destabilized. This has Western fingerprints all over it. Some Pakistani members here should understand that. There should be no anger at China. As for idiots who support uyghur separatism: 10 million f-king Uyghurs and 1.3 billion Chinese? I would literally order 20 million Han to go there and throw them out and have them live in Kazakhstan.

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## Rasengan

IR-TR said:


> Don't blame Pakistan, their government would do anything to stop this. Their pretty much one and only ally is China, and China invests a lot in it. Pakistan has NO REASON what so ever to want that area destabilized. This has Western fingerprints all over it. Some Pakistani members here should understand that. There should be no anger at China. As for idiots who support uyghur separatism: 10 million f-king Uyghurs and 1.3 billion Chinese? I would literally order 20 million Han to go there and throw them out and have them live in Kazakhstan.



Every Uighur terrorist which is caught in Pakistan is sent back to China, after all we did sign an agreement on this issue. Pigtaker the pathetic moron is complaining about Pakistan and how we have failed to stop the Uighur terrorists. In fact its common knowledge in Pakistan that hundreds of Uighur fighters are living in the Northern Areas of Pakistan and they have aligned themselves with TTP. The Uighur terrorists have actually killed Pakistani citizens and solders....does that mean I should blame China because it messed up and allowed these cockroaches to enter Pakistan and kill our citizens and solders.....the answer would be no, since China is trying its best to resolve the issue.

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## TaiShang

Beast said:


> Now is 2



All the positive discrimination laws should be abolished. Let the nature decide who is the best and more capable.

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## Götterdämmerung

I bet none of you watched the video I posted and all of you just talk besides the point.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Götterdämmerung said:


> I bet none of you watched the video I posted and all of you just talk besides the point.


Now! Now! don't get frustrated, i am sure someone will watch the video


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## Rasengan

Areesh said:


> And they have good reasons for that. Some knife yielding idiots are more like an irritant to China than a threat. The real threat to China is India which has a population of a billion plus low IQ morons and also has nuclear weapons under command of same low IQ dumb morons.



When the 2009 riots occurred in Xinjiang, every sane individual know's that these groups are funded and supported by external forces in particular from the CIA. There is a good reason why Rabiya Kadeer lives in Virginia under the protection of the American intelligence services. Pakistan supporting the Uighur terrorists does not make any sense, after all these cockroaches have attacked and killed Pakistani citizens. China's threat will be India, because of land disputes, Dalai Lama living in India and most of all an economic clash to maintain hegemony in Asia.

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## Areesh

pigtaker said:


> they have privilege to abuse everyone on this paticular forum, and this is their most glorious moment in history. don't expect those cave-living creatures could behave properly.



go burn yourself in front of CCP headquarters in protest of their policies about Pakistan. Who knows they might give importance to your death and might seal Pak-China border for 10 minutes.



Rasengan said:


> When the 2009 riots occurred in Xinjiang, every sane individual know's that these groups are funded and supported by external forces in particular from the CIA. There is a good reason why Rabiya Kadeer lives in Virginia under the protection of the American intelligence services. Pakistan supporting the Uighur terrorists does not make any sense, after all these cockroaches have attacked and killed Pakistani citizens. China's threat will be India, because of land disputes, Dalai Lama living in India and most of all an economic clash to maintain hegemony in Asia.



Obviously CCP understands that very well. They would stand with Pakistan for a long time to come. No change in policies as this pigtaker and bharatis wish for.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

pigtaker said:


> china should seal off the border with pakistan permanently, then all problems solved.


Not going to work.

East Turkestan Islamic Movement leader *Abdullah Mansour* is nicely enjoying protection in Pakistan 

He even gave an interview in 2014.

From his Pakistan hideout, Uighur leader vows revenge on China| Reuters

Ensure this person's death with Chinese military, guess the Uyghur movement will fall flat, else he shall continue to give moral support for Uyghur terrorists.

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## Phukimak

Götterdämmerung said:


> I bet none of you watched the video I posted and all of you just talk besides the point.



Well, I watched the video, but I doubt the woman really have credible information...
Sounds like propaganda or just another illuminati theory...


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Areesh said:


> Aaah shut up bharati rat.


@waz


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## Spy Master

pigtaker said:


> pakistan and their turk brothers definitely have a hand in such event, time for our stupid government to teach them some lessons.


Middle Finger for you...Indian Scum !

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## Rasengan

pigtaker said:


> they have privilege to abuse everyone on this paticular forum, and this is their most glorious moment in history. don't expect those cave-living creatures could behave properly.



I can consume a whole bowl of alphabet soup and shit out a much better statement than that...did you require google translator to write your gibberish nonsense. Now which province do you come from in China, because I can always message my friend do an investigation on a person who is advocating anti-state behavior by criticizing the government and the current leadership of the CCP by calling them stupid. You must be a banana...yellow from the outside and white from the inside......now go and attend to the services of your white masters in America.


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## ozzy22

pigtaker said:


> pakistan and their turk brothers definitely have a hand in such event, time for our stupid government to teach them some lessons.


What role did Pakistan play in this attack? I’m guessing it was teaching them how to poorly attack with kitchen knives? 

Don’t blame your own domestic problems on Pakistan and why would Pakistan attack its most important ally, it makes no sense. This conflict is down to ethnic tensions were the Uyghur’s believe they are being displaced by the Han in Xinjiang and has nothing to do with Islam or Pakistan.

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## pigtaker

Areesh said:


> go burn yourself in front of CCP headquarters in protest of their policies about Pakistan. Who knows they might give importance to your death and might seal Pak-China border for 10 minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously CCP understands that very well. They would stand with Pakistan for a long time to come. No change in policies as this pigtaker and bharatis wish for.


burning for a country called pakistan? totally unworth of. besides, what I am saying reflect the opinion of majority of Chinese, that is why your country enjoyed one of the least positive opinion among all nations in China, sooner or later our goverment surely will respond to people's choice.

our domestic forum is already burning in fury about pakistan supported terroirism, and I will contribute with more fuel by just moving you people's insulting post there.

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## Areesh

pigtaker said:


> burning for a country called pakistan? totally unworth of. besides, what I am saying reflect the opinion of majority of Chinese, that is why your country enjoyed the one of the least positive opinion among all nations, sooner or later our goverment surely will respond to people's choice.
> 
> our domestic forum is already burning in fury about pakistan supported terroirism, and I will contribute with more fuel by just moving you people's insulting post there.



People don't matter in a country like China. Only CCP matters. And it is and will be with Pakistan.

As for burning part.. It was a sincere advice. Who knows it might drive attentions of CCP towards your pleading.

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## Yogijaat

pigtaker said:


> burning for a country called pakistan? totally unworth of. besides, what I am saying reflect the opinion of majority of Chinese, that is why your country enjoyed the one of the least positive opinion among all nations in China, sooner or later our goverment surely will respond to people's choice.
> 
> our domestic forum is already burning in fury about pakistan supported terroirism, and I will contribute with more fuel by just moving you people's insulting post there.


lol,
nothing will happen..china has invested a lot o money you can't back out now. The best china could do is ask pakistan to let you drone terrorist safe heaven in pakistan just like america do.


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## Areesh

pigtaker said:


> oh you must be brainwashed too much by west to think that just we don't vote, so we have no say in our government policy. truth is our government does care about people's opinion and respond accordingly. anyway, what is the use to argue with you people.



Good if people matter. Do consider that burning option. After all as per your comment, you matter for CCP.


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## kuge

can we get one of terrorists' joins in the discussion...to enlighten us?


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## Götterdämmerung

Phukimak said:


> Well, I watched the video, but I doubt the woman really have credible information...
> Sounds like propaganda or just another illuminati theory...



Do you even know who she is?

Anyway, good that you like the CIA Coolaid.


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## Rasengan

pigtaker said:


> our domestic forum is already burning in fury about pakistan supported terroirism, and I will contribute with more fuel by just moving you people's insulting post there.



Seriously I can't believe that I am literally educating a Chinese citizen in how things work in China. CCP government is the law in China, you mess around with this institution then you will be finished and sent to the dustbin. CCP does not give a flying hoot in what the general public thinks in a domestic forum, otherwise Tienanmen Square should have toppled the government. Send our messages to your local domestic forum, but know this all internet activities are monitored in China and any anti sentiments against the government or for calling an attack on Pakistan would lead to your execution. Now be a brave domesticated clown.

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## Rasengan

pigtaker said:


> burning for a country called pakistan? totally unworth of. besides, what I am saying reflect the opinion of majority of Chinese, that is why your country enjoyed one of the least positive opinion among all nations in China, sooner or later our goverment surely will respond to people's choice..



How exactly did you work that out Einstein...did you take a survey of every single Chinese citizen, to reflect there opinion on Pakistan. Number 1 you don't have the financial resources to achieve such an object. Number 2 you don't have the brain cells to complete an objective. Number 3 I have lived and worked in China and I don't need an internet forum to prove how much Chinese citizens respect Pakistan and its people.

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## IR-TR

PatriotLover said:


> Just yesterday, I was writing on the thread about forced beer festival in muslim majority area of China, and also about government of China forcing its muslim population to eat during Ramazan fast. Now this, who do you think is the terrorist here? The opressed or the opressor?



China forcing muslims to eat is just about the dumbest lie everybody ever made up. The Chinese muslims have always fasted, have always worn headscarves (those who wish) etc etc. Think about it, why would China pick 2015 to for the first time ever FORCE the muslims to break their fasting? It's bs propaganda. The only thing is that beer festival, but it's an atheist country, so the muslims should adapt, not the other way around. But force feeding? That's nonsense.


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## Indus Pakistan

As a Pakistani my sympathies are *with China* and her people. Chinese should know that we are with China 100%.

@Syed.Ali.Haider What did we discuss yesterday? Amercica/West *yesterday* and now slowly it is* turn *of China. Your projection of the future all of suddens loooks all probable ...

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## VCheng

Atanz said:


> As a Pakistani my sympathies are *with China* and her people. Chinese should know that we are with China 100%.
> 
> @Syed.Ali.Haider What did we discuss yesterday? Amercica/West *yesterday* and now slowly it is* turn *of China. Your projection of the future all of suddens loooks all probable ...



Sir, whatever I say, unpleasant as it might be to some (or even most) here, it is as honest as I can make it.

What happens in Xinjiang will affect Pakistan and its relationship with its age old friend greatly, and we will not be able to blame RAW for this as easily.


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## Indus Pakistan

pigtaker said:


> burning for a country called pakistan? totally unworth of. besides, what I am saying reflect the opinion of majority of Chinese, that is why your country enjoyed one of the least positive opinion among all nations in China, sooner or later our goverment surely will respond to people's choice.
> 
> our domestic forum is already burning in fury about pakistan supported terroirism, and I will contribute with more fuel by just moving you people's insulting post there.



Is there any Chinese forum in Chinese I can gauge how Chinese's feel about Pakistan? I have a Pakistan friend who speaks fluent Mandarin - He was brought up in HK. Please let me know I need to find out in case you are telling the truth.

Thanks ..


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## Rasengan

pigtaker said:


> stop quoting me, I have zero interest to talk with a low life like you.



Please don't sulk like a petulant child paper tiger...you were bold enough to issue a threat towards Pakistan, so implement your policy. Not one decent Pakistani has criticized the Chinese government and its citizens for the Uighur terrorists in killing our own people. The only sad low life scumbag is you, who has nothing better to do in life but play arm chair general in a forum.


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## ozzy22

pigtaker said:


> oh you must be brainwashed too much by west to think that just we don't vote, so we have no say in our government policy. truth is our government does care about people's opinion and respond accordingly. anyway, what is the use to argue with you people.


Do you have any evidence that Pakistan is involved in these sophisticated knife attacks? If we were involved don't you think we could do better than this?

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## Indus Pakistan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Sir, whatever I say, unpleasant as it might be to some (or even most) here, it is as honest as I can make it.
> 
> What happens in Xinjiang will affect Pakistan and its relationship with its age old friend greatly, and we will not be able to blame RAW for this as easily.



Of course. Our relationship ( like with USA ) is between us and them. We can make it or break it. We can't blame it on outsiders.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Rasengan said:


> Seriously I can't believe that I am literally educating a Chinese citizen in how things work in China. CCP government is the law in China, you mess around with this institution then you will be finished and sent to the dustbin. CCP does not give a flying hoot in what the general public thinks in a domestic forum, otherwise Tienanmen Square should have toppled the government. Send our messages to your local domestic forum, but know this all internet activities are monitored in China and any anti sentiments against the government or for calling an attack on Pakistan would lead to your execution. Now be a brave domesticated clown.


@Beidou2020 



Rasengan said:


> How exactly did you work that out Einstein...did you take a survey of every single Chinese citizen, to reflect there opinion on Pakistan. Number 1 you don't have the financial resources to achieve such an object. Number 2 you don't have the brain cells to complete an objective. Number 3 *I have lived and worked in China and I don't need an internet forum to prove how much Chinese citizens respect Pakistan and its people*.



No offence, but are you really so naive to think that in real life a Chinese you meet face to face will give candid opnions on Pakistan?

Or for that matter any person of any nationality.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Atanz said:


> Is there any Chinese forum in Chinese *I can gauge how Chinese's feel about Pakistan*? I have a Pakistan friend who speaks fluent Mandarin - He was brought up in HK. Please let me know I need to find out in case you are telling the truth.
> 
> Thanks ..


You can try comments under the videos on

优酷-中国领先视频网站,提供视频播放,视频发布,视频搜索 - 优酷视频


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## Yogijaat

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Sir, whatever I say, unpleasant as it might be to some (or even most) here, it is as honest as I can make it.
> 
> What happens in Xinjiang will affect Pakistan and its relationship with its age old friend greatly, and we will not be able to blame RAW for this as easily.


lol sure they can  and i think Pakistan is already doing it. They might have made some sort of connection like taliban is funded by RAW.... uyghurs are trained by taliban so uyghurs are RAW agent

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## Indus Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> How exactly did you work that out Einstein...did you take a survey of every single Chinese citizen, to reflect there opinion on Pakistan. Number 1 you don't have the financial resources to achieve such an object. Number 2 you don't have the brain cells to complete an objective. Number 3 I have lived and worked in China and I don't need an internet forum to prove how much Chinese citizens respect Pakistan and its people.



I am afraid what I heard from my friend does not tally with what you say. He was brought up in HK. Maybe what I heard was restricted to HK but I will find out more.


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## ozzy22

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> Sir, whatever I say, unpleasant as it might be to some (or even most) here, it is as honest as I can make it.
> 
> What happens in Xinjiang will affect Pakistan and its relationship with its age old friend greatly, and we will not be able to blame RAW for this as easily.


Just because we share the same religion as the attackers means it will affect our relationship with China, because apart from that I really don’t see the connection between the two, but thankfully the Chinese government is smarter than that and knows Pakistan has no involvement in this.


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## Rasengan

Syama Ayas said:


> @Beidou2020 .



What is the point in quoting my post, if you are not going to even respond yourself directly.



> No offence, but are you really so naive to think that in real life a Chinese you meet face to face will give candid opnions on Pakistan?
> 
> Or for that matter any person of any nationality.



For your information half of my closest friends are from all over China, because we have studied together during the University period. I have traveled to Shanghai, Beijing, Chengdu, Dalian, Dangdong, Kunming and Hong Kong and have worked in China before. Therefore my information is not based on naive insinuation, but true facts. In fact I will travel to Guangzhou in the next 3 months for business and seeing my friends Grandfather who is ill.

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## Indus Pakistan

pigtaker said:


> go to 天涯, every chinese know this forum. see how our people talk about you and your religion.



Thank you I will talk to him later today and he can read Chinese. I will post his translation maybe today evening or tomorrow. 

If you are Chinese I appreciate your honest comments. Truth is always best policy even if it is ugly. A good friend will tell the truth so that we can learn. It is better my people wake up and do not live in fools paradise. That might jolt them to introspect and maybe they might begin to change.

You might be doing us service. In fact I want our Chinese friends here to be honest. Only then the fools in my country can possible learn.

Anyway I will get my friend to read the Chinese forum.


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## syedali73

Rasengan said:


> How exactly did you work that out Einstein...did you take a survey of every single Chinese citizen, to reflect there opinion on Pakistan. Number 1 you don't have the financial resources to achieve such an object. Number 2 you don't have the brain cells to complete an objective. Number 3 I have lived and worked in China and I don't need an internet forum to prove how much Chinese citizens respect Pakistan and its people.


This is most probably a Bharti false flagger. Be careful with your responses. It appears to me that this false flagger is provoking you and other Pakistani members to say bad things about China and Chinese. Whenever I encounter such so-called Chinese members, I tag @Chinese-Dragon for his feedback.

@Areesh

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## Rasengan

Atanz said:


> I am afraid what I heard from my friend does not tally with what you say. He was brought up in HK. Maybe what I heard was restricted to HK but I will find out more.




The same Hong Kong in where people despise Mainland China. Seriously learning things from a third person does not tell you the whole truth, because I will take you to Chengdu and you can meet all my friends from that city and they will describe how Pakistan is respected.


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## ozzy22

pigtaker said:


> go to 天涯, every chinese know this forum. see how our people talk about you and your religion.


Take away Islam out of this context and you have another Tibet on your hands with the full moral support of the West just thank your lucky stars they happen to be Muslim even if the conflict has nothing to do with religion. At the moment there is no excuse better than fighting Islamic extremism for governments to act as cruel as they want with little to no criticism which china has learnt well from.

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## Indus Pakistan

Rasengan said:


> The same Hong Kong in where people despise Mainland China. Seriously learning things from a third person does not tell you the whole truth, because I will take you to Chengdu and you can meet all my friends from that city and they will describe how Pakistan is respected.



Well I am going to get my friend to go on Chinese internet forums to get a general flavour.

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## Indus Pakistan

However there is no doubt about one fact. This relationship "*higher than Himalyas and deeper then Oceans*" is going sink in the *deepest ocean* if the those Islamic warriors get their way ....

As a general observation to all the Pakistani's. Pakistan is destined to collide with China unless we become a secular state. A Islamists and* virulent secularist China *are like *oil* and *water*. In fact there is more chance of Islamists achieving compromise with USA than with China. This is fact.

The West is benign secularism whereas China is virulent secularism. Those who peddle and bring Islam into the public realm had better learn from the Chinese or China is going to go the same way as USA ...

This is the *white elephant* in the room nobody has talked about. This is fact.

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## huzihaidao12

syedali73 said:


> This is most probably a Bharti false flagger. Be careful with your responses. It appears to me that this false flagger is provoking you and other Pakistani members to say bad things about China and Chinese. Whenever I encounter such so-called Chinese members, I tag @Chinese-Dragon for his feedback.
> 
> @Areesh


I have the same feeling.Looks like he has an obvious attempts here.

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## Rasengan

huzihaidao12 said:


> I have the same feeling.Looks like he has an obvious attempts here.




Brother this false flagger has criticized the Chinese Government and the leadership of the CCP and wants to cause division between China and Pakistan....which will never happen.

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## huzihaidao12

Atanz said:


> Well I am going to get my friend to go on Chinese internet forums to get a general flavour.


Chinese BBS is very complex,in addition to the average Internet user,there is full of alot of people with ulterior motives,you know how crazy to Western propaganda is aimed at China,do you think they'll let us BSS?At this point,please be careful.

There is also a point,according to the Forum's different(political orientation and managemen trules) often reflect different tendencies.So,your friend should at least go to well-known Chinese network,so that you can get introduced and recommended.

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## syedali73

Atanz said:


> However there is no doubt about one fact. This relationship "*higher than Himalyas and deeper then Oceans*" is going sink in the *deepest ocean* if the those Islamic warriors get their way ....
> 
> As a general observation to all the Pakistani's. Pakistan is destined to collide with China unless we become a secular state. A Islamists and* virulent secularist China *are like *oil* and *water*. In fact there is more chance of Islamists achieving compromise with USA than with China. This is fact.
> 
> The West is benign secularism whereas China is virulent secularism. Those who peddle and bring Islam into the public realm had better learn from the Chinese or China is going to go the same way as USA ...
> 
> This is the *white elephant* in the room nobody has talked about. This is fact.


Fortunately Chinese government can differentiate between terrorists and Islamic warriors (who are they?) unlike you who are intermingling them to vent your disgust against Pakistan in general and Islam and Muslims in particular. Chinese government is also well aware of the efforts being made by Pakistan to curb terrorism and is acting as a partner in this campaign. The recent veto of Bharti resolution in UN with regards to Lakhvi's release is nothing but a strong gesture of this understanding. _This relationship "*higher than Himalyas and deeper then Oceans*" is going sink in the *deepest ocean* if the those Islamic warriors get their way ...._ appears to be more like a wish (rather ill wish) of yours and your buddy than a plausible scenario. Despite all the ill wishes of certain people, this friendship has not only survived but thrived in all these years and insha Allah it will continue to thrive in coming years.


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## huzihaidao12

pigtaker said:


> no, that is our world view, not yours. in your concept, every muslim is your brother and you people put your religion before country and everything else. look at how your people cry foul for us to oppress muslims on this forum just because we implement certain measure we feel neccessary in xingjian.
> 
> 
> 你有个屁感觉？ 巴基斯坦的马屁你也要拍， 有点尊严好不好？


要想人不知，除非己莫为。
To be I do not know,never do it.,


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

syedali73 said:


> Fortunately Chinese government can differentiate between terrorists and Islamic warriors (who are they?) unlike you who are intermingling them to vent your disgust against Pakistan in general and Islam and Muslims in particular. Chinese government is also well aware of the efforts being made by Pakistan to curb terrorism and is acting as a partner in this campaign. _This relationship "*higher than Himalyas and deeper then Oceans*" is going sink in the *deepest ocean* if the those Islamic warriors get their way ...._ appears to be more like a wish (rather ill wish) of yours and your buddy than a plausible scenario. Despite all the ill wishes of certain people, this friendship has not only survived but thrived in all these years and insha Allah it will continue to thrive in coming years.



A think tank should least of all know : "there are no permanment friends, just permanent interests"

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## syedali73

huzihaidao12 said:


> Chinese BBS is very complex,in addition to the average Internet user,there is full of alot of people with ulterior motives,you know how crazy to Western propaganda is aimed at China,do you think they'll let us BSS?At this point,please be careful.
> 
> There is also a point,according to the Forum's different(political orientation and managemen trules) often reflect different tendencies.So,your friend should at least go to well-known Chinese network,so that you can get introduced and recommended.


We do have certain so-called Pakistani members on this forum whose sole purpose of posting here is to ridicule and belittle their homeland and never to talk about or appreciate anything positive. I will not be surprised if a similar lot of Chinese exists on Chinese fora. Appreciate your insightful post.

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## Rasengan

Chinese Bamboo said:


> I can't believe there is someone like pigtaker in China,or he is a instigator work for US??Or,I dont live in China??



Brother in Pakistan we support the Chinese government in crushing the terrorists, why should we arm and fund these groups when they have killed are own people.


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## Indus Pakistan

You see there is fundamental contradiction that will never go away. You can push it under the carpet but the white elephant is still going to be there and eventually it will wreck everything.

Chinese believe and expect every citizen to put the *Chinese state *as* first*.The Islamists waill put Islam and *Muslim first*. The two two concepts cannot be reconciled.

China will expect and force every Muslim in China to put China first. In Pakistan most our muppets put "Muslim" first and Pakistan comes somewhere at the bottom.

This contradiction is going to pit Chinese and Pakistani Islamists against each other. The secularist Pakistani's like me are fine with it. My advice to Chinese Muslim is "be *Chinese first*".

Lemme put this even more simply. It is this simple. *One has to prevail.*

*China First* ====> *Collide* <======= *Muslim First.*

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## huzihaidao12

syedali73 said:


> We do have certain so-called Pakistani members on this forum whose sole purpose of posting here is to ridicule and belittle their homeland and never to talk about or appreciate anything positive. I will not be surprised if a similar lot of Chinese exists on Chinese fora. Appreciate your insightful post.


At least10 times worse than PDF,my person alexperience.Too many people with ulterior motives,distribution of all kinds of strange ideas,came from different interest groups.

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## Indus Pakistan

syedali73 said:


> Fortunately Chinese government can differentiate between terrorists and Islamic warriors (who are they?) unlike you who are intermingling them to vent your disgust against Pakistan in general and Islam and Muslims in particular. Chinese government is also well aware of the efforts being made by Pakistan to curb terrorism and is acting as a partner in this campaign. _This relationship "*higher than Himalyas and deeper then Oceans*" is going sink in the *deepest ocean* if the those Islamic warriors get their way ...._ appears to be more like a wish (rather ill wish) of yours and your buddy than a plausible scenario. Despite all the ill wishes of certain people, this friendship has not only survived but thrived in all these years and insha Allah it will continue to thrive in coming years.



Don't you dare question my patriotism. Who the hell do you think are? This is my fathers, his fathers, his fathers and his fathers homeland. Can you say the same ?

I brought up a fundamental issue which might be beyond your ability to understand that has to be resolved. You can ignore but it will imperil us at some time. I am going to talk to my frind who speaks Chinese and get to trawl Chinese forums to get hisfeedback. In the meantime don't you dare question my loyalty for my land. Got that? You can disagree with me as you might want ...

I don't change my loyalty because I moved geographical space.* I carry it in my blood* .....

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## Azizam

China should seal the border. This is not going to get any better. It will only get worse. Chinese should know this.


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## syedali73

huzihaidao12 said:


> At least10 times worse than PDF,my person alexperience.Too many people with ulterior motives,distribution of all kinds of strange ideas,came from different interest groups.


Absolutely; moreover, those members may not be exclusively from PRC but from Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, those residing in Europe and States. Fora are online communities and displaying any flags does not mean the poster really hail from the country of displayed flags.


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## خره مينه لګته وي

Rasengan said:


> Every Uighur terrorist which is caught in Pakistan is sent back to China, after all we did sign an agreement on this issue. Pigtaker the pathetic moron is complaining about Pakistan and how we have failed to stop the Uighur terrorists. In fact its common knowledge in Pakistan that hundreds of Uighur fighters are living in the Northern Areas of Pakistan and they have aligned themselves with TTP. The Uighur terrorists have actually killed Pakistani citizens and solders....does that mean I should blame China because it messed up and allowed these cockroaches to enter Pakistan and kill our citizens and solders.....the answer would be no, since China is trying its best to resolve the issue.


that is history & now there is no uigher terrorists in our Fata region,when our armed forces launched zarb-e-azab operation most of the terrorists went to the other side of the border i.e Afghanistan..now I'm sure Indians must be helping them like they do help TTP to launch attacks on our security forces and civilians..

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## scionoftheindus

@syedali73
Uncle why do you insult others and get insulted in return..atanz's words 'this is my land,my fathers land,his father's land and his fathers land..can you say the same' have pierced even my heart...it is painful to hear such words..you shouldn't have questioned his loyalty to pak.it is a sorry state of affairs that you mohajirs are getting to hear such words.


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## Chinese-Dragon

syedali73 said:


> This is most probably a Bharti false flagger. Be careful with your responses. It appears to me that this false flagger is provoking you and other Pakistani members to say bad things about China and Chinese. Whenever I encounter such so-called Chinese members, I tag @Chinese-Dragon for his feedback.



There are many Indians and Americans these days who can speak Chinese, he could be one of them. Or he could be working for them.

Best to tag the moderators for this kind of thing.

It's irrelevant anyway, China as a country has closer relations to Pakistan then any other country on Earth, this is reflected in China's Government policy, both officially and unofficially.

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## syedali73

Atanz said:


> I don't change my loyalty because I moved geographical space.* I carry it in my blood* .....


Yes, I can see that especially after observing which kind of birds (rather A bird) you flock with. A man is known by the company he keeps. Take care.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> There are many Indians and Americans these days who can speak Chinese, he could be one of them, or he could be working for them.
> Best to tag the moderators for this kind of thing.
> It's irrelevant anyway, China as a country has closer relations to Pakistan then any other country on Earth, this is reflected in China's Government policy, both officially and unofficially.


Much appreciate your reply my friend.

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## scionoftheindus

Chinese-Dragon said:


> There are many Indians and Americans these days who can speak Chinese, he could be one of them, or he could be working for them.
> 
> Best to tag the moderators for this kind of thing.
> 
> It's irrelevant anyway, China as a country has closer relations to Pakistan then any other country on Earth, this is reflected in China's Government policy, both officially and unofficially.


What impression a common Chinese has about pak?


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## CHN Bamboo

scionoftheindus said:


> If you are Chinese why don't you talk something in Chinese with him


okay,I object to his words about Chinese
某人，你到底怎么了，大多中国人讨厌巴基斯坦？你开什么玩笑呢，不要瞎代表

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## Jlaw

Police in Xinjiang do not carry guns? Well something is wrong with that picture.


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## Indus Pakistan

syedali73 said:


> Yes, I can see that especially after observing which kind of birds (rather A bird) you flock with. A man is known by the company he keeps. Take care..



You seem to be a most immature man. Internet is not the real world. We don't come here to make friends. We don't come here looking to 'flock' with any particular people. I come here to size up people thoughts. Lot of people will reserve what they think in real life. The annonymity of internet allows those deeper thoughts to come to the surface.

So these forums are not to sit around with '*like lick like'* but places where you can engage in free debate to provoke, think, learn and develop ideas. Otherwise if you want to just have bunch of 'yes guys' get all your friends togather who will be 'birds of the feather' and just say "yes" to each other.

Critical debate is what this is all about. From that cauldron are borne new ideas. Something you need to learn about 'education'.

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## syedali73

Atanz said:


> You seem to be a most immature man. Internet is not the real world. We don't come here to make friends. We don't come here looking to 'flock' with any particular people. I come here to size up people thoughts. Lot of people will reserve what they think in real life. The annonymity of internet allows those deeper thoughts to come to the surface.
> 
> So these forums are not to sit around with 'like lik like' but places where you can engage in free debate to provoke, think, learn and develop ideas. Otherwise if you want to just have bunch of 'yes guys' get all your friends togather who will be 'birds of the feather' and just say "yes" to each other.
> 
> Critical debate is what this is all about. From that cauldron are borne new ideas. Something you need to learn about 'education'.


I hear you. Please carry on.

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## Indus Pakistan

syedali73 said:


> I hear you. Please carry on.



I take that bit about "*immature*" man back ...

I know I like beating off the regular path. That is freedom of internet to explore new ideas, challange old concepts and evolve through unrelenting critical anyalysis in open free discourse ..

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## mike2000 is back

Lool interesting debate going on here. 

As many know I already said it before, Pakistan will have a hard time maintaining its alliance with China, WHY? Simple answer : RELIGION. 
Most Middle Eastern /Muslim countries always put religion first (especially the people) so obviously there are many Pakistani who sympathise with their 'oppressed ' Muslim uygurs brothers , just like Pakistan's best friend Turkey does as well. religion to most of these people comes first before even their own country much less national interests. 
So China as i said before ought to be very careful in it's dealings with these countries. For if there were not elements in Pakistan who sympathise with uygur terrorists and East Turkestan movement there is no way some of their members (even the head of ETIM) will have found sanctuary in Pakistan and Afghanistan. this doesn't necessarily means the Pakistani government is supporting these groups, but the Pakistani government unfortunately doesn't have control of the whole country as there are regions where militant and terror groups reign supreme like the tribal regions, so it's difficult for the government to stamp out these extremists once and for all. Their government and army has been trying though, having suffered tend of thousands of deaths at the hands of fighting these terrorists. So as we can see , if we use some people's reasoning /logic, Pakistan is also oppressing it's Muslim's peopulation reason they have taken arms against the state/country. LMAO

I NEVER CONDONE terrorism, doesnt matter whether it's in China, Russia, Europe, Yemen, U. S etc. I condemn it, and I don't like listening to excuses SOME of these terror groups Muslim sympathisers(especially when it happens in a non Muslim country where Muslim are involved) use to justify these acts, saying its because these Muslim terrorists ate being oppressed by the government (funny thing is that these Muslim terrorist sympathisers never say the same thing when these same terrorists strike and kill their own people in their own Muslim countries. Loool )

Anyway RIP the the innocent policemen death. Such is life.

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## Rasengan

Both Chinese and Pakistani posters can easily resolve this problem and can uncover the propagandists attempts to cause a wedge between two friendly nations. Pakistani's should first visit China and see how beautiful the country is and then observe the respect they have for Pakistan. In turn Chinese posters should come to Pakistan, where they can experience our hospitality and respect we have for not just the CCP government, but also the Chinese people.

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## Jlaw

huzihaidao12 said:


> At least10 times worse than PDF,my person alexperience.Too many people with ulterior motives,distribution of all kinds of strange ideas,came from different interest groups.


Many paid foreigners who can write Chinese pretend to be Chinese to stir shit up. In fact I treat all forums as 99.9% BS

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## Rasengan

Jlaw said:


> Many paid foreigners who can write Chinese pretend to be Chinese to stir shit up. In fact I treat all forums as 99.9% BS



A perfect sentence which describes how the internet is a great tool for learning, however propagandist messages are used to confuse people to act wrongly. Best knowledge is always first hand experience.


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## BigDaddyWatch

ashok mourya said:


> TEA LEAF NATION
> *China Loves Pakistan … but Most Chinese Don’t*
> China's pro-Pakistan state media blitz may be more about convincing its own people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chinese President Xi Jinping’s first state visit to Pakistan, and the $46 billion infrastructure and energy deal announced between the two countries on April 20, have headlined Chinese state media websites for days. The trade deal is part of China’s ambitious “New Silk Road” strategy to create an economic corridor linking western China with South Asia and the Middle East, and it’s meant to further deepen a bilateral relationship that China is eager to promote. On April 20, state news agency Xinhua characterized the relationship as an “ironclad friendship.” Communist Party mouthpiece_People’s Daily_ quoted people on the street in Pakistan exclaiming, “We would rather give up gold than abandon the China-Pakistan friendship,” with the news outlet stating that this was the “heartfelt wish” of the people there. Pakistan’s government, for its part, is no less effusive, with officials there previously having described its relationship with the East Asian giant as “sweeter than honey,” one rising “higher than the Himalayas.” China-Pakistan diplomatic relations have indeed been strong for decades. Pakistan was one of the earliest countries to establish official relations with the People’s Republic of China, in 1951. China is Pakistan’s largest trading partner and its top arms supplier, and in the past decade, the two neighbors have been swift to provide aid to each other after natural disasters.
> 
> But quantitative measures of grassroots sentiment between the two countries tell a different story. While Pakistanis view China in an overwhelmingly positive light — a July 2014 Pew Research Center survey found that 78 percent of respondents view China favorably —
> 
> Chinese maintain a far less enthusiastic attitude toward their South Asian neighbor; only 30 percent of Chinese view Pakistan favorably.Chinese maintain a far less enthusiastic attitude toward their South Asian neighbor; only 30 percent of Chinese view Pakistan favorably. It’s not clear why Chinese popular opinion of Pakistan is so out of kilter with the two countries’ official relationship. Though most Chinese doacknowledge the close ties between the countries, someview Pakistan as violent, chaotic, and poorly governed. Pakistan shares a 372-mile border with Xinjiang, the northwestern Chinese region home to 10 million Uighurs, a largely Muslim Turkic-speaking minority, a region with sporadic outbreaks of violence between Uighurs and the majority Han population. In August 2011, officials in the region of Kashgar in southern Xinjiang claimed that Uighur militants had received training in Pakistan, and Chinese officials have pressured Pakistan to expel Uighur separatists who may be operating there.
> 
> 
> To some in China, when imagining a violent, lawless, or run-down place, Pakistan is what first comes to mind. One young woman, upon returning to her college dorm room in the northern Chinese city of Dalian on an early spring day in 2013, discovered to her shock that the ceiling had caved in. “I thought I had been transported to Pakistan!” she posted on Weibo, a major social platform, along with a picture of the collapsed ceiling. When speculation abounded in April 2014 as to the fate of Malaysian Airlines Flight 370, some were quick to link the plane’s disappearance to Pakistan. “I think it must be related to Islamic extremism,” one Weibo user wrote in a representative comment, adding “The airplane might already be in a place like Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Yemen.” And in China, the general impression of Pakistanis themselves is often little better. A 2013 discussion thread on question-and-answer site Zhihu asked, “What kind of country is Pakistan? Are there a lot of terrorist organizations?” As one user wrote, “The poor people [there] are hooligans; they utter lewd expressions at women on the street.”
> 
> 
> The recent flurry of close, floridly worded Chinese affirmations of friendship with Pakistan seem designed not just to cement the official relationship between the two countries, but perhaps also to bring public opinion into closer alignment with the official relationship.The recent flurry of close, floridly worded Chinese affirmations of friendship with Pakistan seem designed not just to cement the official relationship between the two countries, but perhaps also to bring public opinion into closer alignment with the official relationship. On April 21, _People’s Daily_ posted on its Weibo account a playful explainer aimed to help readers “understand in one picture why the China-Pakistan friendship is strong like iron!” The colorful infographic presented key high points in the bilateral relationship (“China was the first country to offer relief during the 2010 flooding in Pakistan!”) and other fun facts demonstrating the closeness of the relationship (“Pakistan hardly even garrisons its borders with China!”).
> 
> 
> The _Daily’s_ post prompted many web users to share their positive impressions of China-Pakistan goodwill. One Weibo user in the western city of Chengduwrote on April 21 that he had once run into a Pakistani user on a social media platform. “As soon as I told him I was Chinese, he became so friendly and excited,” wrote the user. The Pakistani user even gave the Chinese man his phone number, and invited him to visit if he ever came to Pakistan. “Only afterwards, when I did an online search, did I realize that the China-Pakistan friendship was so strong and resilient.” Other users recalled important moments in the history of China-Pakistan relations. “Chinese people haven’t forgotten that Pakistan is the country that donated all its tents to China after the Great Sichuan Earthquake,” wrote one Weibo user in a popular comment, referring to the deadly 2008 earthquake in China’s southwest, after which Pakistan donated$2 million worth of emergency aid, including 30,000 tents. In the aftermath of the bloody crackdown on Tiananmen protests in 1989, when China became an international pariah subject to human rights sanctions, Pakistani officials continued to meet with their Chinese counterparts regularly in a move that stood in stark contrast to Western nations at the time. That support has lived long in the Chinese consciousness, with one user marveling, “Now that is true brotherhood.”
> 
> Others clearly viewed the China-Pakistan relationship as a creature of geopolitical interest. “China and Pakistan have no border disputes and no historical issues,” wrote a pharmaceutical engineer in Beijing. “Together they face the challenge posed by India; they must have [a relationship of] iron.” A 19-year-old young man in Suzhou framed the relationship in less equal terms, writing of Pakistan, “Without China, India would destroy you.” Others questioned the effusions of friendship, with one user wondering if it would prove as lasting as the much-hailed “China-Soviet friendship” — which ended in the bitter Sino-Soviet split of 1960.
> 
> It’s clear that the strong relationship between the two countries is popular, despite the sometimes lackluster sentiment towards Pakistan itself. And it’s a bilateral relationship that isn’t likely to falter any time soon. Back in 2013, Xidescribed the China-Pakistan friendship as an “all-weather strategic partnership,” a phrase repeated frequently during Xi’s recent visit. As an April 21 Xinhua article asserted, with the ironclad friendship’s new agreement, “iron has become steel.”
> 
> _Yiqin Fu and Shujie Leng contributed research.
> China Loves Pakistan … but Most Chinese Don’t | Foreign Policy_


This is because the average Chinese inside of China often don't know anything about the world. Pretty much like the Americans. But for those of us who knows the Pakistani's love and respect for China we can be nothing more than 100% pro Pakistan.

This is one example of that in the article.



> One Weibo user in the western city of Chengduwrote on April 21 that he had once run into a Pakistani user on a social media platform. “As soon as I told him I was Chinese, he became so friendly and excited,” wrote the user. The Pakistani user even gave the Chinese man his phone number, and invited him to visit if he ever came to Pakistan. “Only afterwards, when I did an online search, did I realize that the China-Pakistan friendship was so strong and resilient.”

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## BigDaddyWatch

scionoftheindus said:


> Chinese are killing Muslims..imposing restrictions on fasting..it is OK with you?


The conflict between India and Pakistan isn't about Islam. Its about the status of Kashmir. Its a nationalistic issue rather than a religious issue. And China is Pakistan's best, greatest and most important partner and ally against India. The Pakistani's here like most people inside of Pakistan and around the world put their country before their religion. Although there maybe a few exception to that.

You want to drive a wedge between China and Pakistan ? Give up Kashmir. Then maybe China Pakistan relations might falter.

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## Rasengan

scionoftheindus said:


> Chinese are killing Muslims..imposing restrictions on fasting..it is OK with you?



Chinese are not imposing restrictions on fasting...this has been discussed countless times in this forum. Children under the age of 16 are not permitted to fast due to education. If the Chinese government does kill terrorists then why exactly should I feel upset. Let me tell you something, if any of these terrorists attack my best friends across China, then I will take a trip there my self and hunt these cockroaches.

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## Indus Pakistan

mike2000 is back said:


> Lool interesting debate going on here.
> 
> As many know I already said it before, Pakistan will have a hard time maintaining its alliance with China, WHY? Simple answer : RELIGION.
> Most Middle Eastern /Muslim countries always put religion first (especially the people) so obviously there are many Pakistani who sympathise with their 'oppressed ' Muslim uygurs brothers , just like Pakistan's best friend Turkey does as well. religion to most of these people comes first before even their own country much less national interests.
> So China as i said before ought to be very careful in it's dealings with these countries. For if there were not elements in Pakistan who sympathise with uygur terrorists and East Turkestan movement there is no way some of their members (even the head of ETIM) will have found sanctuary in Pakistan and Afghanistan. this doesn't necessarily means the Pakistani government is supporting these groups, but the Pakistani government unfortunately doesn't have control of the whole country as there are regions where militant and terror groups reign supreme like the tribal regions, so it's difficult for the government to stamp out these extremists once and for all. Their government and army has been trying though, having suffered tend of thousands of deaths at the hands of fighting these terrorists. So as we can see , if we use some people's reasoning /logic, Pakistan is also oppressing it's Muslim's peopulation reason they have taken arms against the state/country. LMAO
> 
> I NEVER CONDONE terrorism, doesnt matter whether it's in China, Russia, Europe, Yemen, U. S etc. I condemn it, and I don't like listening to excuses SOME of these terror groups Muslim sympathisers(especially when it happens in a non Muslim country where Muslim are involved) use to justify these acts, saying its because these Muslim terrorists ate being oppressed by the government (funny thing is that these Muslim terrorist sympathisers never say the same thing when these same terrorists strike and kill their own people in their own Muslim countries. Loool )
> 
> Anyway RIP the the innocent policemen death. Such is life.



*China First* ====> *Collide* <======= *Muslim First.*

There is inheritant contradiction that Pakistan has to resolve as drawn by me above. The Chinese ( rightly ) expect any citizen to put their country first. This is also applies to otrher countries where Muslims are migrants. However lot of the West is sophisticated in how it handles this conntradiction - well frankly it allows this contradiction to a large extent. However those oposing forces are always there and the cause of so much of the Muslim communities to fail to integrate into mainstream societies.

However in case of China she is vehemantly secularist and furthermore brooks no doubts. It is absolute. Either your are you put China first or be Muslim first. It is brutal and binary about it. This contradicts with the our Islamists in Pakistan who have swamped us. 

I am rather excited about this. I know that Pakistan and China are and will be strategic partners. There is no doubt about this and there is no way around this. Pakistan and China because of geography and geopolotics are going to be chums. The recent Chinese plan to invest $46 billion in CPEC is proof of that. That is larger investment then our Cold War ally US did in the last 40 years.

Now the reason I am excited is as the inevitable strategic relationship between Pak/China moves forward there is going to be the annoying Islamist coming in the way. That problem will come to the fore more and more. It already is as is evidenced by some muppet Pakistani's here preaching the Chinese how to handle their Uyghur Muslims.

Therefore for this inevitable Pak/China strategic relationship to move forward will force Pakistan to rein in it;s Islamists and at the same time make some minds in Pakistan rethink their views on secularism. Because if we do not selove this issue that I highlighted at the begining of this post we will continue having problems with China and expect when mighty China puts pressure on us we might begin to change.

Much as the Afghan war in the 1980s and the US supported Saudi financed war in that country to defeat Soviet Union brought the Islamist to the fore I am hoping this "China Syndrome" will put the genie in the bottle over the long term.

We live in interesting times ....

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## VCheng

Atanz said:


> *China First* ====> *Collide* <======= *Muslim First.*
> 
> There is inheritant contradiction that Pakistan has to resolve as drawn by me above.



That inherent contradiction is true for just about _every _country, not just China.

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## Indus Pakistan

Syed.Ali.Haider said:


> That inherent contradiction is true for just about _every _country, not just China.



Of course but the rest have been trashed as "Kaffir" or "enemy" or "evil" but China is held in high esteem by our people. So let us sit back and see how they reconcile with a virulently secular China ....

Seeing that the army is about to raise an entire division which ought be called "*China Gaurds Division*" to safegaurd the expected deluge of Chinese heathen workers in Pakistan to build the CPEC we already have taster of the future ....

Soon our Chinese brothers are going to find the most dangerous place for them will be the one that has "love higher then Himalyas" .....

Still they will have "China Gaurds Division" flanking them ...

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## Rasengan

الأعرابي said:


> Time to free East Turkestan from the Chinese Han occupation



Then your kind will simply be exterminated because we have no place for you in our society. Xinjiang belongs to China and this will never change. The CCP government must improve and evolve bringing more socio-economical changes, however since 1978 they have done a fantastic job. Hence why Deng Xiaoping proverb is still remembered "It does not matter if a cat is black or white as long as it catches mice". Reform will occur in Xinjiang and the CPEC policy will be instrumental in bring change to both countries.

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## Chinese-Dragon

الأعرابي said:


> Time to free East Turkestan from the Chinese Han occupation



Hey @syedali73,

Is this guy in the quote above another Indian false-flagger?

They seem to get around a lot these days.

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## jamahir

Atanz said:


> *China First* ====> *Collide* <======= *Muslim First.*



i must correct this... 

1. it is fake-muslim first... the hizb-ut-tahrir terrorists operating in china by any measure do not constitute muslim.

2. every socialist muslim country has existed without the contradiction you portrayed.


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## Rasengan

الأعرابي said:


> If most Uyghur decided to free themselves and pick up arms then East Turkestan will be independent and there's nothing the Chinese can do about it, the world will side with the oppressed and you will be sanctioned.



Haha Your message was amusing thank you for playing the court gesture in this forum. For your information I am a Pakistani and not Chinese. The problem with your articulation is that its based on a hypothesis The minute Xinjiang is in trouble and the Uighur's are taking up arm against the State of China, then Pakistan will support its neighbor to the best of its abilities.

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## Rasengan

ashok mourya said:


> Did i mentioned Indian govt or u just dreamed it???
> ....



Okay I will paraphrase my sentence for you again. Both Pakistan and China don't give a flying hoot in what the stinking unhygienic Indian public thinks about us


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## Bobby

Atanz said:


> However there is no doubt about one fact. This relationship "*higher than Himalyas and deeper then Oceans*" is going sink in the *deepest ocean* if the those Islamic warriors get their way ....
> 
> As a general observation to all the Pakistani's. Pakistan is destined to collide with China unless we become a secular state. A Islamists and* virulent secularist China *are like *oil* and *water*. In fact there is more chance of Islamists achieving compromise with USA than with China. This is fact.
> 
> The West is benign secularism whereas China is virulent secularism. Those who peddle and bring Islam into the public realm had better learn from the Chinese or China is going to go the same way as USA ...
> 
> This is the *white elephant* in the room nobody has talked about. This is fact.


you mean selective secular and completely secular


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## Indus Pakistan

Just to advice Indians here nothing changes the fundamental* Pak/China *compact which is moored on deeper foundations of self interest and geopolitics. That is not about to change anytime soon. All issues being discussed here are ancillery to that and subservient to the Islamists inside Pakistan. Thus Pakistan n has even gone to the point of even raising an entire division in the army to safegaurd the Chinese from the Islamic nutjobs. As far as India is concerned the situation and this has no bearing on them. So there is no reason for the Indian's to get haughty ...

Economic corridor: 12,000-strong force to guard Chinese workers - The Express Tribune


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## Sheikh Rauf

Radio Asia.... need more sources...


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## Indus Pakistan

Bobby said:


> you mean selective secular and completely secular



Between* first step *and *tenth step* there are* eight steps* ......


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## Azizam

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Hey @syedali73,
> 
> Is this guy in the quote above another Indian false-flagger?
> 
> They seem to get around a lot these days.


No!! Check his other posts in Syria thread etc. He's probably Arab or Pakistani or Turkish. A lot of muslims will take the side of muslims when muslims are at war with non-muslim. You have to face that reality.


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## VCheng

Atanz said:


> Of course but the rest have been trashed as "Kaffir" or "enemy" or "evil" but China is held in high esteem by our people. So let us sit back and see how they reconcile with a virulently secular China ....
> 
> Seeing that the army is about to raise an entire division which ought be called "*China Gaurds Division*" to safegaurd the expected deluge of Chinese heathen workers in Pakistan to build the CPEC we already have taster of the future ....
> 
> Soon our Chinese brothers are going to find the most dangerous place for them will be the one that has "love higher then Himalyas" .....
> 
> Still they will have "China Gaurds Division" flanking them ...



So what could be consequences if there are a few or more high profile instances of security lapses with these Chinese workers? It is impossible to secure all the targets all the time in all locations, obviously.

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## Rasengan

ashok mourya said:


> But you people do opposite in Kashmir.....and support the terrorist the so called mujaheddin....



What part of my sentence did you not understand when I said Pakistan does not give a flying hoot about India. Fact of the matter is we have a strong interests of seeing a strong stable China and our friendship is based on the concept of brotherhood.

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## gau8av

China will crack down hard on these jihadists now, we can expect more burqa/beard bans, more blatantly racist anti muslim propaganda posters et all 

be interesting to see the Pakistani response now.


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## Indus Pakistan

jamahir said:


> i must correct this...
> 
> 1. it is fake-muslim first... the hizb-ut-tahrir terrorists operating in china by any measure do not constitute muslim.
> 
> 2. every socialist muslim country has existed without the contradiction you portrayed.



This is to address those Muslims who put their nation *second. *I don't. To me Pakistan comes *first*. To most Turkish Muslims Turkey comes* first*. This is for those Muslims who interpret things differantly from the secularists ...

They will call me wrong and I will retort and call them the same ...

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## jamahir

Atanz said:


> This is to address those Muslims who put their nation *second. *I don't. To me Pakistan comes *first*. To most Turkish Muslims Turkey comes* first*. This is for those Muslims who interpret things differantly from the secularists ...
> 
> They will call me wrong and I will retort and call them the same ...



pakistan is in a state of specific emergency so i understand what you say.

on my part, since i am a socialist, i don't ascribe to the notion of nationalism... to me, humanity first, where ever it might be.


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## Rasengan

gau8av said:


> 'mumbai' might just turn out to be a 'Shanghai', we'll see if you're as smug then



Did Kiss_of_ the_ Dragon speak on a sore subject....then next time be a good little boy and mind your own business and play twiddledum with your fingers, instead of seeking attention.


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## Indus Pakistan

In the relationship with China and Pakistan which I already have said is firmly entrenched in self interest and geopolitics.

As time agoes on those Pakistani's who put *Pakistan first* will be fine with China but those who puts *Muslims first* will collide with China because they will start jumping up and down about the Uigyhur who trust me are going to be taught the meaning of "*China First*" or they will be snapped by China like dry twigs .....

In the long run all the Uighurs will be singing "*China First*" and I know all the Chinese members here support this policy even if for sake of diplomacy they don't say it.

@jamahir I am a socialist as well, through and through.

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## IR-TR

jamahir said:


> pakistan is in a state of specific emergency so i understand what you say.
> 
> on my part, since i am a socialist, i don't ascribe to the notion of nationalism... to me, humanity first, where ever it might be.




That is the final goal indeed, and it might come faster than some people think. Nationalism, borders etc, are a thing of the past. That being said, developing/growing nations indeed need to have nationalist (economic/industrial) policies first, before opening up.

Anyway, why are people cheering terrorist attacks in each other's countries? That's pathetic. Whatever their beliefs.

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## haviZsultan

OrionHunter said:


> Double standards! Hypocrites!


So you mean there is a link? Are you pointing at RAW, India's intelligence wing supporting the uighers to cause havoc in china as punishment for blocking this Lakhvi thing?

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## VCheng

Atanz said:


> As time agoes on those Pakistani's who put *Pakistan first* will be fine with China but those who puts *Muslims first* will collide with China because they will start jumping up and down about the Uigyhur who trust me are going to be taught the meaning of "*China First*" or they will be snapped by China like dry twigs .....



The percentage of the first category is falling while that of the second is rising. These trends make the collision more likely with the third category as times goes by.


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## jamahir

Atanz said:


> @jamahir I am a socialist as well, through and through.



you are certainly a progressive but are you serious about what you said ??


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## Indus Pakistan

*China First* * Pakistan First*


*China First **Muslim First*

The above sums up the reality and our Chinese members know this. Next few decades is going to be interesting. I know which group in Pakistan the Chinese will support - secularists ....

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## VCheng

Atanz said:


> *China First* * Pakistan First*
> 
> 
> *China First **Muslim First*
> 
> The above sums up the reality and our Chinese members know this. Next few decades is going to be interesting. I know which group in Pakistan the Chinese will support - secularists ....



Like this?

Chinese academic defends beer festival in Muslim region | Page 6

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## Indos

mike2000 is back said:


> Lool interesting debate going on here.
> 
> As many know I already said it before, Pakistan will have a hard time maintaining its alliance with China, WHY? Simple answer : RELIGION.
> Most Middle Eastern /Muslim countries always put religion first (especially the people) so obviously there are many Pakistani who sympathise with their 'oppressed ' Muslim uygurs brothers , just like Pakistan's best friend Turkey does as well. * religion to most of these people comes first before even their own country much less national interests.
> So China as i said before ought to be very careful in it's dealings with these countries*.



I think by seeing Palestinian-Israel conflict in relation with Muslim nations foreign policy, it has become the evidence that sometime national interest of Muslim nations will collide with their people feeling. In any democratic country it is even so normal. Just take example European nations, they are quite different in dealing with Palestinian-Israel issue compared to how USA dealing with this one. There is more pro Palestinian foreign policy as well in the European side, which is not a weird one as European people favorabillity toward Israel is much lower than in USA. 

Furthermore, most of PDF members are not government high rank official, so I think it is also normal if there is a heat debate going on here between Pakistanis and Chinese regarding a particular issue.


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## Indus Pakistan

jamahir said:


> you are certainly a progressive but are you serious about what you said ??



Why would I say otherwise. Did you not notice how I supported the BISP program in Pakistan as sterling example of how well Pakistan is doing to repudiate the failed rubbish despite allegations of fraud etc....

Pakistan Failed state?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Bobby said:


> what will happen to Gwadar route then


 
it's not gonna affect our relation or any of our current project such Gwadar, our relation are very mature...that why we call "all weather friends". It's not the first thread nor last thread, I have seen so many threads that you guys want to dragg some Pakistanis over this religious issue and inflame Chinese Pakistanis relation, you guys can alway try but we all know your intentions but hope that you Indians wont get counter-attack both by Chineses and Pakistanis friends at the same time and then cry like no end.

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## Rasengan

gau8av said:


> but I thought this thread was about a jihadist terror attack in China ?



Then simply don't bring India or Mumbai into the thread, because like you have clearly stipulated the terrorists event occurred in China.


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## gau8av

Rasengan said:


> Then simply don't bring India or Mumbai into the thread, because like you have clearly stipulated the terrorists event occurred in China.


why not, this kind of religious fanaticism/terror is a threat to both India and China.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Bobby said:


> if you saved him for Mumbai 2.0 then you should worry about Shanghai 1.0 also
> 
> USA used to tell us the same until 9/11 happened


 
What we have to woory about Shanghai 1.0. but If Mumbai 2.0 happened again, please dont beg us in UN over and over again...LMAO

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## Indus Pakistan

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> it's not gonna affect our relation or any of our current project such Gwadar, our relation are very mature...that why we call "all weather friends". It's not the first thread nor last thread, I have seen so many threads that you guys want to dragg some Pakistanis over this religious issue and inflame Chinese Pakistanis relation, you guys can alway try but we all know your intentions but hope that you Indians wont get counter-attack both by Chineses and Pakistanis friends at the same time and then cry like no end.



I already made it abundantly clear China/Pak relationship is *strategic reality* and nothing is going to change that. This issue is subservient to that. I already made that clear.

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## Rasengan

gau8av said:


> why not, this kind of religious fanaticism/terror is a threat to both India and China.



Because this event has nothing to do with India. None of the Uighur terrorists are supported by Pakistan and the problem is based on socio-economic differences between the Han and Uighur. If this was a Muslim problem then the Hui should also take up arms...however this is not the case.

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## waz

I do have to give it to the Indian trolls trying their upmost to make the connection with Pakistan, which will somehow in their wildest fantasies cause an avalanche of Chinese opinion to swing their way and end the strategic alliance between the two. Things are not just that easy folks .
I did like those Making outlandish BS claims that the current attack has something to do with Pakistan, you would have thought they would have used something more potent than kitchen knives right? Why would there be any support for scum like this who have joined the Pakistani Taliban and slaughtered Pakistani men, women and children? You really haven't thought his one through have you?

The thread will be watched carefully now.

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## jamahir

Atanz said:


> Why would I say otherwise. Did you not notice how I supported the BISP program in Pakistan as sterling example of how well Pakistan is doing to repudiate the failed rubbish despite allegations of fraud etc....
> 
> Pakistan Failed state?



umm... bisp is a actual welfare program, rare in the subcontinent, though it must be enhanced as the amounts are too low... and it must be supported by a wider welfare/socialist system.

but good to know another committed socialist on pdf... just a few days ago, i got to know of the vietnamese socialist member, yorozuya.


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## Indus Pakistan

gau8av said:


> why not, this kind of religious fanaticism/terror is a threat to both India and China.



Son, the only threat you need to worry about in India is being drowned in your own crap .....



jamahir said:


> umm... bisp is a actual welfare program, rare in the subcontinent, though it must be enhanced as the amounts are too low... and it must be supported by a wider welfare/socialist system.
> 
> but good to know another committed socialist on pdf... just a few days ago, i got to know of the vietnamese socialist member, yorozuya.



Rs1,500 as support supplement is not low. It is low to you and me but to the very poor it puts food on the table. Estimates are that is enough flour for 6 member family for a month
. Not bad in our part of the world ...

Don't forget it is a supplement and now covers bottom 20% of the population. I don't think any other South Asian country has anything as extensive as this ...

Benazir Income Support Programme

Furthermore payment goes to female head of household via BISP debit card assuring accuracy of delivery ...

Ps. Sorry for being off topic.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

scionoftheindus said:


> What impression a common Chinese has about pak?


 
The general impression of Chinese about Pakistan is better than India...am I answereing your question?

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## huzihaidao12

Atanz said:


> *China First* * Pakistan First*
> 
> 
> *China First **Muslim First*
> 
> The above sums up the reality and our Chinese members know this. Next few decades is going to be interesting. I know which group in Pakistan the Chinese will support - secularists ....


If I make a suggestion for the Chinese Government,I would say,we have developed a good relationship and Pakistan all factions,meanwhile,remained neutral.On the surface,at least,not to touch politics and religion.Under the surface,that's our job,in along term,to do our job--to promote change in Pakistan,through the development of a modern economy of Pakistan(the manufacturing economy),this time,Pakistan's Muslim community will become more and more adapted to the modern or industrial society,looking to the long term,to build the Canal first ,then to in corporate water.

For a country like Pakistan,for a Muslim society like Pakistan,could not be rushed, the work is more important than debate,I'm sure.

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## waz

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> The general impression of Chinese about Pakistan is better than India...am I answereing your question?



I've been several times to the Chinese mainland, and even though I'm a third generation expat from England, when they found out I was Pakistani in origin I was shocked at the level of friendship and affection they showed me.

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## Jlaw

the problem I see with this is that you don't get the brightest guys admitted. A potential average Uighur taking a place over an intelligent Han Chinese can only mean one thing. China will not catch up or surpass the west if she intend to continue to practice Chinese affirmative action.

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## Indus Pakistan

huzihaidao12 said:


> If I make a suggestion for the Chinese Government,I would say,we have developed a good relationship and Pakistan all factions,meanwhile,remained neutral.On the surface,at least,not to touch politics and religion.Under the surface,that's our job,in along term,to do our job--to promote change in Pakistan,through the development of a modern economy of Pakistan(the manufacturing economy),this time,Pakistan's Muslim community will become more and more adapted to the modern or industrial society,looking to the long term,to build the Canal first ,then to in corporate water.
> 
> For a country like Pakistan,for a Muslim society like Pakistan,could not be rushed, the work is more important than debate,I'm sure.



Thank you. I knew we can depend on the Chinese to handle this situation with a considered, just and thought out way. 

What I would ask is China supports the secularist in Pakistan in the long term it will be better for China and Pakistan ...

Togather I trust we will overcome this problem ....

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

gau8av said:


> why not, this kind of religious fanaticism/terror is a threat to both India and China.


 
My advise to you Indians, if there is any religious fanaticism/terror on your soil, try to keep the anger/fustration for yourself...don't ever try to export your trouble/problem to us, you will never earn our sympathy or Pity. And probably because you Indians seen that we don't react or get our attention, so you guys want to dragg our Pakistanis friends in to so religious issues, hope to drive a wedge between us and altimately expect we Chinese will cooperate with India to deal with same issue or more explicitely gang up against Pakistan...it's not gonna work that way.

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## huzihaidao12

Atanz said:


> Thank you. I knew we can depend on the Chinese to handle this situation with a considered, just and thought out way.
> 
> What I would ask is China supports the secularist in Pakistan in the long term it will be better for China and Pakistan ...
> 
> Togather I trust we will overcome this problem ....


The key is how do you understand this"secular"? Our view is,secularism=to promote Muslim society (very close together under a old system) to adapt to the industrial society(a completely new system),from this point of view, to support secular parties cannot be equated to supporting secularism, I'm afraid, it is more complex than most Pakistani secularists think.

A question, if you must make a choice between Turkey secular parties and Iran theology , you think who can better represent the "secularism" in the past 30 years?


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## AndrewJin

50!? Then I could enter Peking University if i were them.


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## Indus Pakistan

huzihaidao12 said:


> The key is how do you understand this"secular"? Our view is,secularism=to promote Muslim society (and very close together under a old system) to adapt to the industrial society(a completely new system),from this point of view, to support secular parties cannot be equated to supporting secularism, I'm afraid, it is more complex than most Pakistani secularists think..



The situation in Pakistan is more nuanced then that applicable in Sinkiang-Uighur. We have dozen brands all claiming that they are 'Muslim' and what they uphold is 'Islam'. So sure are these bigots that they will kill others who do not subscribe to their brand of Islam. Thus we have dozens of brands killing and fighting each other. All the brands just follow their own interpretation and will challange ( kill ) each other and challange the ( state ) by fighting it.

Thus for us the problem is already intractable. You in China have every mosque mullah answering and subject to central control. Our mullah espouse what they want to. tommorow one could ask his followrs to go against China. Another one might ak his followes to kill shia and it goes on and non. Thus we have chaos.

I give you one example. The Lal Masjid incident in our capital city. The mullah and his supporters kidnnaped Chinese citizens. After lot of negotiation the government attacked. To cut a long story the Mullah who was responsible is still alive, still teraching the same poison and he has got rewarded with a new mosque. I do not think China would have handled this matter this way if this was in Beijang or Kashgar.

Siege of Lal Masjid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Because we do not have *one brand called Islam *we have dozens. All are so sure that their brand is Islam and allah is behind them that they will be prepared to kill each other. Thus in this situation of dozens of fractured brands nobody can agree on one brand or one interpretation of Islam the only sensible thing left for the state is to untangle itself from this mess of rivalries and become a* neutral third party* that instead concentrates on law and order without taking any sides in the conflict of brands. That is what I mean secularism. I don't mean ban or get rid of Islam. I mean the state lets all keep their brans but do not impose any versions on the rest or take sides. It becomes a independant prefect above all the petty arguments which have been going on since 1,000 years and will go on for another 1,000 years ...


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## huzihaidao12

Atanz said:


> The situation in Pakistan is more nuanced then that applicable in Sinkiang-Uighur. We have dozen brands all claiming that they are 'Muslim' and what they uphold is 'Islam'. So sure are these bigots that they will kill others who do not subscribe to their brand of Islam. Thus we have dozens of brands killing and fighting each other. All the brands just follow their own interpretation and will challange ( kill ) each other and challange the ( state ) by fighting it.
> 
> Thus for us the problem is already intractable. You in China have every mosque mullah answering and subject to central control. Our mullah espouse what they want to. tommorow one could ask his followrs to go against China. Another one might ak his followes to kill shia and it goes on and non. Thus we have chaos.
> 
> I give you one example. The Lal Masjid incident in our capital city. The mullah and his supporters kidnnaped Chinese citizens. After lot of negotiation the government attacked. To cut a long story the Mullah who was responsible is still alive, still teraching the same poison and he has got rewarded with a new mosque. I do not think China would have handled this matter this way if this was in Beijang or Kashgar.
> 
> Siege of Lal Masjid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Because we do not have *one brand called Islam *we have dozens. All are so sure that their brand is Islam and allah is behind them that they will be prepared to kill each other. Thus in this situation of dozens of fractured brands nobody can agree on one brand or one interpretation of Islam the only sensible thing left for the state is to untangle itself from this mess of rivalries and become a* neutral third party* that instead concentrates on law and order without taking any sides in the conflict of brands. That is what I mean secularism. I don't mean ban or get rid of Islam. I mean the state lets all keep their brans but do not impose any versions on the rest or take sides. It becomes a independant prefect above all the petty arguments which have been going on since 1,000 years and will go on for another 1,000 years ...



So , like I said,for a country like Pakistan,for a Muslim society like Pakistan,it is impossible to jump the gun,I think China definitely don't want to get into a hole,those issues will in creasingly weaken or disappear in the Pakistani society in the process of industrialization and modernization,blindly accused wil lonly intensify social conflicts in Pakistan.

My advice,be patient and do our work,and this time don'twaste opportunity(our strategic cooperation).

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## sicsheep

this is what they do, this is why they get shot, it is worth for me getting banned.

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## Jlaw

sicsheep said:


> this is what they do, this is why they get shot, it is worth for me getting banned.


they meaning the terrorist and not the regular good Uighur folks who just want to provide for their family like everyone else.

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## jkroo

Atanz said:


> As a Pakistani my sympathies are *with China* and her people. Chinese should know that we are with China 100%.
> 
> @Syed.Ali.Haider What did we discuss yesterday? Amercica/West *yesterday* and now slowly it is* turn *of China. Your projection of the future all of suddens loooks all probable ...





Rasengan said:


> Please don't sulk like a petulant child paper tiger...you were bold enough to issue a threat towards Pakistan, so implement your policy. Not one decent Pakistani has criticized the Chinese government and its citizens for the Uighur terrorists in killing our own people. The only sad low life scumbag is you, who has nothing better to do in life but play arm chair general in a forum.



Friends, you should be more confident for our country's brotherhood relationship. You have no need to spend any time on those morons.

I think @Rasengan know the truth. You both are honored and honest people, what I can reminder you is that this thread is crowded with Indians. That's enough.

False flaggers are everywhere even in Chinese forums who write Chinese words. Also, there are many morons in China talk BS everyday. Please calm down and take a breath.

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## Azizam

sicsheep said:


> this is what they do, this is why they get shot, it is worth for me getting banned.


Views of the people who commented on that video (when translated from google translate) are very different from Chinese posters here.


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## sicsheep

Azizam said:


> Views of the people who commented on that video (when translated from google translate) are very different from Chinese posters here.



its a mixed bag, hmm not sure which comment in particular?


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## Rasengan

jkroo said:


> Friends, you should be more confident for our country's brotherhood relationship. You have no need to spend any time on those morons.
> 
> I think @Rasengan know the truth. You both are honored and honest people, what I can reminder you is that this thread is crowded with Indians. That's enough.
> 
> False flaggers are everywhere even in Chinese forums who write Chinese words. Also, there are many morons in China talk BS everyday. Please calm down and take a breath.



Brother Jkroo, the relationship between Pakistan and China is very unique because we have mutual respect for each other. Some of the best days of my life were spent in China with my closest friends, when we enjoyed eating Chengdu barbecue at 2am in the morning after coming back from a karaoke bar. China holds a very special place in my heart because the people were so friendly and the landscape is full of treasures. I have traveled to Dalian, Shanghai, Beijing, Dangdong, Chengdu and Kunming, therefore my experiences of China were always in a positive light. Someone from the internet would never change my opinion of China, because its like insulting all my best friends who are mostly Han Chinese and there families who have showed great hospitality towards me. 

Like I said the day Xinjiang or China is attacked by external or internal rebellious forces, then Pakistan will stand by its neighbor who it regards as a equal brother.

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## Azizam

sicsheep said:


> its a mixed bag, hmm not sure which comment in particular?


Well, let's say Chinese members in the PDF are trying to be more diplomatic and Taiwanese people are fiercely anti-CCP in the YouTube link.


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## Winchester

Atanz said:


> There is inheritant contradiction that Pakistan has to resolve as drawn by me above. The Chinese ( rightly ) expect any citizen to put their country first. This is also applies to otrher countries where Muslims are migrants. However lot of the West is sophisticated in how it handles this conntradiction - well frankly it allows this contradiction to a large extent. However those oposing forces are always there and the cause of so much of the Muslim communities to fail to integrate into mainstream societies.
> 
> However in case of China she is vehemantly secularist and furthermore brooks no doubts. It is absolute. Either your are you put China first or be Muslim first. It is brutal and binary about it. This contradicts with the our Islamists in Pakistan who have swamped us.
> 
> I am rather excited about this. I know that Pakistan and China are and will be strategic partners. There is no doubt about this and there is no way around this. Pakistan and China because of geography and geopolotics are going to be chums. The recent Chinese plan to invest $46 billion in CPEC is proof of that. That is larger investment then our Cold War ally US did in the last 40 years.
> 
> Now the reason I am excited is as the inevitable strategic relationship between Pak/China moves forward there is going to be the annoying Islamist coming in the way. That problem will come to the fore more and more. It already is as is evidenced by some muppet Pakistani's here preaching the Chinese how to handle their Uyghur Muslims.
> 
> Therefore for this inevitable Pak/China strategic relationship to move forward will force Pakistan to rein in it;s Islamists and at the same time make some minds in Pakistan rethink their views on secularism. Because if we do not selove this issue that I highlighted at the begining of this post we will continue having problems with China and expect when mighty China puts pressure on us we might begin to change.
> 
> Much as the Afghan war in the 1980s and the US supported Saudi financed war in that country to defeat Soviet Union brought the Islamist to the fore I am hoping this "China Syndrome" will put the genie in the bottle over the long term.


 
Well said...China as well as Turkey could have a positive influence on our society !

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## jkroo

Rasengan said:


> Brother Jkroo, the relationship between Pakistan and China is very unique because we have mutual respect for each other. Some of the best days of my life were spent in China with my closest friends, when we enjoyed eating Chengdu barbecue at 2am in the morning after coming back from a karaoke bar. China holds a very special place in my heart because the people were so friendly and the landscape is full of treasures. I have traveled to Dalian, Shanghai, Beijing, Dangdong, Chengdu and Kunming, therefore my experiences of China were always in a positive light. Someone from the internet would never change my opinion of China, because its like insulting all my best friends who are mostly Han Chinese and there families who have showed great hospitality towards me.
> 
> Like I said the day Xinjiang or China is attacked by external or internal rebellious forces, then Pakistan will stand by its neighbor who it regards as a equal brother.



Yes, I know, brother. I read most of your posts. If you ask common Chinese people which country deserve trust, the No.1 answer is Pakistan. Our people are used to observe things in a long term and that tell us the result.

Personally, I think the resolution to deal with both domestic problems is to develop our economies and improve people's living conditions. I wish Pakistan become a stable and prosperous land soon and so many Chinese people are eager to travel to and touch the friend land. The economic corridor is most important for both of us and it will help to resolve many social issues.

In an internet forum wherever it be, don't take those negative things too seriously especially they come from the west and about China. You know what I point to. However, the tricks and dirty, filthy posts happened everyday and people from which country dare to do it is well-known. This is real life, but I come here for the good of Pakistan that is what I defend.

Morally, we required many for our own people but we are also very open to our friends. Maybe the internet virtual environment distorts this image, but that will never change in our tradition.

Xinjiang issues as a domestic problem we are now dealing with it and it will turn to it's right track, what news with distortions can't change anything, let the news brainwash those people who want it. Recently, Prof. Zhang weiwei viewpoints which is published in the NYTIMES represent major people's attitude to the west media.

The friendship between countries especially for China and Pakistan is existed in their people no matter what their religion is. So I don't agree with the point of collide.

Overall, I have faith for the friendship and bright future of both country.

Regards.

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## waz

Mr.Nair said:


> Funny work by moderator, allowing chinese comments and blocking indian comment even though i just criticize his stand but never insult him.No wonder pdf standard going down
> @waz



Your fellow countrymen started the disgraceful trolling. The only point at which anything started going "down" was when they entered this thread and started causing trouble. Dragon replied quite rightly and put them in their place. This thread became a joke for them and an opportunity to tear the fabric of this thread with taunts, outrageous lies and so forth. You may have just replied to him, but his initial post was made after a barrage of Indian taunts.
To stop the thread from derailing any further I took action, and that included Pakistani off-topic posts being deleted. Your post came under the "off-topic" criteria.
I did warn people previously about the thread being watched carefully. Had you put up something related to to the event being discussed then nothing would have been deleted.

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## Rasengan

Nilesh Singh said:


> Stop giving your idiotic post on this thread, whom you are trying to convince. Chinese are with you because they see their interest in it, all this brother and family game plan you can play in your own country. There is seriously something wrong in your top deck, Just because China veto lakvi notion in UN, so you think China done some favor to you. India got what it wanted remaining all the 4 permanent member acknowledge Lakvi as terrorist and you let him go so you get bad name in front of all UN country members for continuing support to these terrorist. Its plan simple diplomacy.



India is irrelevant towards the relationship between Pakistan and China, because we don't give a flying hoot in what you think about us to be honest with you. When did I mention the word Lakvi in this thread...do you have some inferior complexity issues of becoming an attention seeking nation, which feels left out of the equation. Now serve some Chai and make it quick.

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## Hamartia Antidote

sicsheep said:


> this is what they do



I think the Chinese police need better firepower/training. Those two got pretty far in a hail of 30+ shots. That could have ended badly if there were fewer officers.


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## Rasengan

jkroo said:


> Yes, I know, brother. I read most of your posts. If you ask common Chinese people which country deserve trust, the No.1 answer is Pakistan. Our people are used to observe things in a long term and that tell us the result.



The most imperative aspect of our relationship is trust and I have personally experienced the level of appreciation by the average Chinese common citizen towards Pakistan. In retrospect people from Pakistan also appreciate the Chinese nation, especially because hundreds of workers gave their lives to build the Karakorum highway. China has stood by Pakistan in difficult times and even in the recent case of Yemen, the Chinese navy rescued hundreds of stranded Pakistani civilians, this was deeply applauded in Pakistan.



jkroo said:


> lt.
> Personally, I think the resolution to deal with both domestic problems is to develop our economies and improve people's living conditions. I wish Pakistan become a stable and prosperous land soon and so many Chinese people are eager to travel to and touch the friend land. The economic corridor is most important for both of us and it will help to resolve many social issues.
> .




Your assumption is correct brother, that the resolution in overcoming domestic issues is to develop our economies and improve the general living conditions. In China the government must develop the correct infrastructure in its western regions and move some of its industries from the eastern sector. The coastal regions of China are becoming overly-populated, therefore people need to migrate to central and western regions of China. Furthermore, western analysis are harping on about the collapse of China, however the slowdown in growth is being carefully manufactured by the government. This is because in 2008, the central government did two major policies in overriding the financial crisis. The first example was the change of the reserve ratio in banks and the second was the fiscal policy of investing in infrastructure projects to enable the rapid increase of jobs. However, now the Chinese economy must slow down to reach a balance. CPEC will propel the Pakistani economy forward because it will initiate new industrial zones, power projects, oil/gas pipelines, highways and develop mineral projects from the Northern Areas to Baluchistan. Trust me brother, Pakistan has a number of resources and it will be a great opportunity for private Chinese businessman to collaborate with local Pakistani corporations. For example Pakistan has the fifth largest deposit of minerals in the world and we have five different types of rubies, which are highly valued across the world since they have the same status as pigeon rubies from Myanmar. Some modern technology and education in cutting the stones with the added opportunity of selling to the Chinese market would allow Pakistan overtake Thailand and India in this market. Most of the gems in Afghanistan/Tajikistan and Uzbekistan are actually sent to Pakistan first. When the infrastructure is built, then the Chinese common citizen can see the nature beauty of Pakistan and travel across the country. I will personally show you around in Pakistan




jkroo said:


> In an internet forum wherever it be, don't take those negative things too seriously especially they come from the west and about China. You know what I point to. However, the tricks and dirty, filthy posts happened everyday and people from which country dare to do it is well-known. This is real life, but I come here for the good of Pakistan that is what I defend..



The internet is a fantastic tool to learn new information, however it can become a double edge sword because the mind can easily become manipulated. China is viewed favorably in Africa because the central government does not interfere in the domestic politics of other countries, which is why they are always appreciated. People like Gordon Chang can never change my perception of China, because he is a treacherous fool who barks too much. I find China fascinating because it has suffered from oppression from imperial powers from the 1840s to the second world war. However, against all odds it has bounced back and within 40 years it has changed the economic living standards of its citizens. I want a similar pattern to transpire in Pakistan who has also suffered oppression from vested interests from the west and the middle east, so we must bounce back with the help of our brothers in China. As long as the moderators don't ban me from this forum, then my voice would always defend China against these agitators who speak negative on the domestic issue of your country. Everyone knows that the Olympic fiasco was manufactured by the west and in the next coming decades they will try to discredit China. However together we must all work hard to stop there suspicious activities.






jkroo said:


> Morally, we required many for our own people but we are also very open to our friends. Maybe the internet virtual environment distorts this image, but that will never change in our tradition.



The morality system of China is very good in my opinion because it stems from the philosophy of Confucius which teaches respect and honor of individuals to remain harmonious in society. There is so much more I would love learn about Chinese civilization such as the book of Iching and how it has effected the Chinese way of thinking. China should always follow its own traditions such as maintaining the business practice of guanxi (interpersonal relationship) even though it confuses and annoys western corporations



jkroo said:


> Xinjiang issues as a domestic problem we are now dealing with it and it will turn to it's right track, what news with distortions can't change anything, let the news brainwash those people who want it. Recently, Prof. Zhang weiwei viewpoints which is published in the NYTIMES represent major people's attitude to the west media.



Xinjiang is a huge province and its sparsely populated in comparison to other regions of China. The government needs to shift more citizens to the western regions of China and relocate there industries to create new jobs. Since CPEC is being constructed near Xinjiang, goods can easily be exported through Gwadar, by-passing all the dramatic problems in the South China Sea in the future. Furthermore when I was working in the Agricultural Bank of China, it was the policy of the bank to invest in the western regions of China to develop new avenues of business to increase productivity. Prof. Zhang weiwei was the individual who wrote the book "The China Wave:rise of a civilization state", which sold more than two million copies. His interview in Al Jazeera head to head with Mehdi Hussein was very compelling and he answered very tough questions from western critics.



jkroo said:


> The friendship between countries especially for China and Pakistan is existed in their people no matter what their religion is. So I don't agree with the point of collide. Overall, I have faith for the friendship and bright future of both country.
> Regards.



I agree with your assertions 100% brother, the future is bright and our people to people connection will increase even more in the next coming decades. Pakistan-China friendship Zindabad

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## scionoftheindus

waz said:


> I've been several times to the Chinese mainland, and even though I'm a third generation expat from England, when they found out I was Pakistani in origin I was shocked at the level of friendship and affection they showed me.


Stop lying..I never believe such claims...what has pak got for Chinese to show so much love?is it some US or UK or land of Buddha?Pakistan for outsiders is just a country where bearded terrorists roam around with ak47s and women in shuttle cock burkhas.


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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> the problem I see with this is that you don't get the brightest guys admitted. A potential average Uighur taking a place over an intelligent Han Chinese can only mean one thing. China will not catch up or surpass the west if she intend to continue to practice Chinese affirmative action.



That's definitely unfair. Just because they happen to be a minority does not make them any more special than the rest.


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## dlclong

qwerrty said:


> so it's true, han chinese don't treat them equally. those people also can have as many children as they want, while han chinese can only have 1. bad chinese


Uighurs generally have lots of kids, especially in the South Xinjiang, especially in rural areas Uighurs, are basically have 5-10 children.
Kadeer, do you know she,rely on The Communist Party to be the richest woman in xinjiang , then become the “East Turkistan leader".
As the upper strata, she also have 11 children.

another, Nur Bekri, member of the CCP, the former chairman of Xinjiang, now the National Energy Secretary of china . As communist government officials, according to the regulations, can only have a child, but he has four. Even now the Chinese President, Xi Jinping, has only one daughter.
If is Han, it was impossible for him to have this right.


Uighur population from 1949 to the present, has risen to 12 million from 2 million.So it can be seen from the side, so-called oppression of minorities, no,On the contrary, it can be seen that it is not fair to the main nationality.

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## Kyle Sun

TaiShang said:


> That's definitely unfair. Just because they happen to be a minority does not make them any more special than the rest.


no no no , they do not have good school/teacher also . it is also not fair.


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## TaiShang

Kyle Sun said:


> no no no , they do not have good school/teacher also . it is also not fair.



Then it is better to ensure good schools/teachers than giving them an upper hand in the exams at the cost of the rest.


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## Kyle Sun

TaiShang said:


> Then it is better to ensure good schools/teachers than giving them an upper hand in the exams at the cost of the rest.


good school/teacher need time and money . 
It can not be done in short time . 

The admission of the same college in different province is also different.


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## Lux de Veritas

China has been treating minorities like emperor, and Han is the only people who treat minorities and foreigners better than ourselves.

The most generous policy is in Tibet. Basically, Tibetan students got free food, free lodging, free school fee and pocket monies for going to school.

Tibetan even got free basic heathcare and free treatment for some chronic condition.

Han Chinese got none of these.

西藏农牧区各学校执行学生“三包”新标准_要闻_新闻_中国政府网

西藏医保付费改革：减少不合理的医疗费用 - 国内新闻 - 中国日报网

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## Azizam

dlclong said:


> Uighurs generally have lots of kids, especially in the South Xinjiang, especially in rural areas Uighurs, are basically have 5-10 children.
> Kadeer, do you know she,rely on The Communist Party to be the richest woman in xinjiang , then become the “East Turkistan leader".
> As the upper strata, she also have 11 children.
> 
> another, Nur Bekri, member of the CCP, the former chairman of Xinjiang, now the National Energy Secretary of china . As communist government officials, according to the regulations, can only have a child, but he has four. Even now the Chinese President, Xi Jinping, has only one daughter.
> If is Han, it was impossible for him to have this right.
> 
> 
> Uighur population from 1949 to the present, has risen to 1200 million from 200 million.So it can be seen from the side, so-called oppression of minorities, no,On the contrary, it can be seen that it is not fair to the main nationality.


I thought minorities can only have 2 kids. Well, this is a retarded decision on CCP's part.

And 200 million? I think you got it wrong. It's barely 9 million but it poses a serious threat to China if they are allowed to reproduce like cockroaches.

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## TaiShang

Lux de Veritas said:


> The most generous policy is in Tibet. Basically, Tibetan students got free food, free lodging, free school fee and pocket monies for going to school.



But, at least, except some radicalized/politicized monks, there is not much terrorism produced in Tibet. Hence, as it seems, favorable policies seem to be working. But Xinjiang is another story because the ideology that is involved there, unlike in Tibet, is way too savage, barbarian, archaic, hateful and worse, universalist.

The universalism of the radical ideology in Xinjiang is the root of the problem. Those uneducated and uncivilized rascals who reside in faraway places and who missed the stage of nation state, start to get agitated and jumping high once they hear their "brothers" in ideology are allegedly persecuted.

It is true foreigners' talk or whatever feeling they may have is of no influence on national policy, but, nonetheless, the spillover of terrorism born out of a universalist ideology remains to be a menace.



Azizam said:


> I thought minorities can only have 2 kids. Well, this is a retarded decision on CCP's part.



No, the No 1 terrorist that now resides in the US and runs anti-China activity there breeds like a rat, producing some 10 offsprings in the end.

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## Azizam

TaiShang said:


> No, the No 1 terrorist that now resides in the US and runs anti-China activity there breeds like a rat, producing some 10 offsprings in the end.


There's no surprise there actually but CCP is digging China's own grave with this.It's going to have major consequences in the future unless it is prevented now when you have the chance.

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## TaiShang

Azizam said:


> There's no surprise there actually but CCP is digging China's own grave with this.It's going to have major consequences in the future unless it is prevented now when you have the chance.



The population policy needs to be further revised. It is already on the loose end, and it has always been so for the rural China. But China has been fast urbanizing, hence, the urban culture is spreading. Therefore, the population policy needs to be reformed for the urban areas towards larger freedom for demographic growth.


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## Edison Chen

To some poster, even if you have issues with it, please don't hurt Pakistan friends' feeling.

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## Zarrar Alvi

scionoftheindus said:


> Stop lying..I never believe such claims...what has pak got for Chinese to show so much love?is it some US or UK or land of Buddha?Pakistan for outsiders is just a country where bearded terrorists roam around with ak47s and women in shuttle cock burkhas.


and the feeling of outside world toward india is that naked pandit and rapists roam around the street of delhi

thank GOD we destroyed ETIM HQ in north waziristan maybe now NDS and RAW is training them against china in Afghanistan


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## gau8av

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> My advise to you Indians, if there is any religious fanaticism/terror on your soil, try to keep the anger/fustration for yourself...don't ever try to export your trouble/problem to us, you will never earn our sympathy or Pity. And probably because you Indians seen that we don't react or get our attention, so you guys want to dragg our Pakistanis friends in to so religious issues, hope to drive a wedge between us and altimately expect we Chinese will cooperate with India to deal with same issue or more explicitely gang up against Pakistan...it's not gonna work that way.


did I even mention Pakistan ?


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## Armstrong

RIP to the innocent civilians who died and may the terrorists be brought to justice.

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## dlclong

oh，I am


Azizam said:


> I thought minorities can only have 2 kids. Well, this is a retarded decision on CCP's part.
> 
> And 200 million? I think you got it wrong. It's barely 9 million but it poses a serious threat to China if they are allowed to reproduce like cockroaches.


 sorry，I am wrong，My mistake，2million，not 200，from 2million to 12million


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## OrionHunter

haviZsultan said:


> So you mean there is a link? Are you pointing at RAW, India's intelligence wing supporting the uighers to cause havoc in china as punishment for blocking this Lakhvi thing?


Nope! The Chinese cry hoarse about terrorism and the need to eradicate it from the world whenever they get screwed in Xinjiang but support terrorists like Lakhvi in Pakistan!! (branded as terrorist by the UN). Jeeez! If this isn't double standards and hypocrisy, than I don't know what is. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds! How can they piss off Pakistan, their deeper than ocean friends??

But in geopolitics there are no permanent friends, only permanent interests, and Pakistani is China's permanent interest. You get the game, right?

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## sicsheep

OrionHunter said:


> Nope! The Chinese cry hoarse about terrorism and the need to eradicate it from the world whenever they get screwed in Xinjiang but support terrorists like Lakhvi in Pakistan!! (branded as terrorist by the UN). Jeeez! If this isn't double standards and hypocrisy, than I don't know what is. Running with the hare and hunting with the hounds! How can they piss off Pakistan, their deeper than ocean friends??
> 
> But in geopolitics there are no permanent friends, only permanent interests, and Pakistani is China's permanent interest. You get the game, right?



hahaha yup, 
neither Chinese or Pakistani are worried about our relationship with each other, Indian has taken care of it for us.

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## Emilly David

nm


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## rott

scionoftheindus said:


> What impression a common Chinese has about pak?


As an ethnic Han Chinese, I see Pakistani as a Pakistani, a real friend and a brother indeed. To me a Pakistani are people who are in Pakistan or originated from Pakistan regardless where they are presently. 
And I don't get entangled in religion. Religion means jack to me. I will first recognize you as a Pakistani rather than being a Muslim or islamist or whatever. 
I do know Pakistanis have utmost respect for the Chinese people and we, vice versa.
I for one, do not see any good Pakistani citizens backstabbing any Chinese regardless of what we do with the Uighurs in Xinjiang. To top it all, it will be the dear people of Pakistan who encourages us to clamp down hard on these terrorist as I've seen from some of the comments from our Pakistani brothers in this thread. I say thank you all for your support. 
Well, you got one honest view from one unbiased Chinese regardless of my nationality.

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## Mr.Nair

Not pdf chinese but normal chinese view

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## waz

Mr.Nair said:


> Not pdf chinese but normal chinese view
> 
> View attachment 232478



According to PEW, of course....I find it hilarious that you made mention of the "PDF Chinese", as reference to an inherent bias they have but then give PEW as the definitive proof of what the Chinese think.
I've been there dear boy and the PEW findings reek to high heaven.


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## rott

sicsheep said:


> this is what they do, this is why they get shot, it is worth for me getting banned.



Rofl....


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## Ahiska

RIP to the dead.
Hope the situation in XinJiang will get better.


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## waz

scionoftheindus said:


> Stop lying..I never believe such claims...what has pak got for Chinese to show so much love?is it some US or UK or land of Buddha?Pakistan for outsiders is just a country where bearded terrorists roam around with ak47s and women in shuttle cock burkhas.



I couldn't give a damn what you believe and neither do the Chinese.You would have thought you would have got the message now ,but you keep coming back like a rancid, putrid smell.
Now for the last few insults you typed out you can enjoy a lengthy ban, you can keep telling yourself that this is also a lie, I can assure you it isn't.


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## ArsalanKhan21

http://www.economist.com/news/china...will-not-bring-stability-xinjiang-tongue-tied

*Education in Xinjiang*
*Tongue-tied*
*Teaching Uighur children in Mandarin will not bring stability to Xinjiang*
Jun 27th 2015 | SHUFU COUNTY, KASHGAR | From the print edition




“I CAN speak Chinese, I’m so awesome!” reads a sign on the wall of the Mingde primary school in Shufu, a town near the oasis city of Kashgar in the far western province of Xinjiang. Nearby, children’s artworks hang beneath another banner which proclaims: “The motherland is in my heart.” Though every pupil at the school is Uighur, one of China’s ethnic minority peoples, most lessons here are taught in Mandarin—a very different language from their Turkic one. It is the same at ever more schools across the region. Educating young Uighurs in Mandarin may one day help them find work—but it is also a means by which the government hopes to subdue Xinjiang and its many inhabitants who chafe at rule from Beijing.

Xinjiang began to fall under China’s control in the mid-18th century. It was then mainly populated by ethnic Uighurs, whose culture and Muslim faith set them apart from much of the rest of China; Kashgar is far closer to Kabul and Islamabad than it is to Beijing. Despite the migration into Xinjiang of Hans, China’s ethnic majority, minorities (mainly Uighurs) still make up 60% of its residents, compared with less than 10% in China overall.

For decades the region has been racked by a low-level insurgency by Uighurs against growing Han influence. In 2009 around 200 people died in ethnic clashes in Urumqi, the region’s capital. Security has since been ramped up—the police and army are ever-present—but last July tensions flared again when an estimated 100 people were killed near Kashgar following attacks on government buildings. Violence has spread beyond Xinjiang’s borders too, into China’s interior. In 2013 five people were killed when a car driven by Uighurs ploughed into pedestrians in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square and burst into flames. Last year 31 people died in a knife attack by Uighurs in the south-western city of Kunming, an incident described by state media as the country’s “9/11”. Eighteen people were reportedly killed on June 22nd in an attack by Uighurs armed with knives and bombs on a checkpoint in Kashgar.

As well as bulldozing dissent, the government has tried pouring in cash to boost Xinjiang’s economy. Yet Hans have disproportionately benefited from the resulting boom; minorities’ feelings of alienation and inequality have worsened. Hans and non-Hans in Xinjiang are growing further apart—some Hans are nervous about entering Uighur districts; Uighurs complain of harassment by the police. Officials are beginning to recognise that there is a social problem, as well as a security-related one. There is a renewed focus on breaking down ethnic barriers and promoting a shared national identity.

Mandarin-teaching for Uighurs is seen as a tool to achieve these goals. Since 2011 officials in the region have been promoting what they call “bilingual education”. By this they mean that most instruction is to be in Mandarin. Ever more schools are moving towards using Chinese only, with the exception of a few hours of classes each week in Uighur literature. President Xi Jinping emphasises this policy as a way to fight terrorism. Last year he described better education as “essential” to the region’s long-term stability. Schools such as Mingde, with its troops of Uighur children wearing the red ties of the Young Pioneers, a junior branch of the Communist Party, embody the government’s great hope.

The government’s desire to boost Mandarin-speaking ability is reasonable: few Uighurs speak fluent, or even passable, Chinese. Mastering the language should open up opportunities for Uighur children and improve their job prospects (in 2010, 83% of all Uighurs were farmers). Bringing Han and Uighur children into the same classroom, as some urban schools are at last trying to do, should help too.

But the authorities risk arousing complaints that Uighur culture is being marginalised. Even before Xinjiang’s ethnic troubles intensified in 2009, schools conformed to Han norms. Recently bans have been made stricter on the observance of fasting rituals during the month of Ramadan. Few Han children in Xinjiang are taught minority languages.

Our culture, not yours

The Xinjiang curriculum is about learning to be Chinese. Schools prize “patriotic education” even more than others in China. At Mingde the Chinese flag hangs at the front of each classroom between laminated photos of the late leaders Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping. A kindergarten in Kasghar features a wall poster declaring: “I am Chinese. Beijing is my country’s capital, I love China. I love the motherland, I love the Great Wall. I love my father, mother, teacher, classmates, but most of all I love my motherland.”

Around two-thirds of minority children now receive Mandarin-language instruction. But educational quality is suffering. Not enough Uighurs speak sufficient Mandarin to teach in it; those who do want better-paid jobs than teaching. It is hard to attract Han teachers to a poor, volatile region. The government is pumping money into the recruitment effort, but it says Xinjiang still needs 30,000 more teachers who can speak both Mandarin and a local language. Uighur-speaking parents can rarely help their children with school work and many pupils have no chance to practise the Mandarin they acquire. Even in a model school like Mingde, staff admit that children speak only Uighur outside class. Many six-year-olds cannot understand basic questions in Chinese. Other skills suffer, too: children typically learn English via Mandarin, for example, even though English and Uighur—unlike Chinese—both use alphabetical scripts.

Some older Uighurs view such instruction as an erosion of their culture. Reza Hasmath of Oxford University says they may therefore either fail to support their children’s education or actively resist it (some send their children to illegal religious schools). Despite this—and unlike in Tibet—there have been few reports of public protests against Mandarin-medium teaching. This is probably because other issues, such as the banning of Muslim veils, have raised more hackles, and possibly because some incidents go unreported.

In other parts of China, such as Hong Kong and Shanghai, where Mandarin is not the native tongue, learning the national language does indeed open doors. But in Xinjiang even many Uighurs who speak fluent Mandarin find it hard to get ahead, partly because of racial prejudice. Highly educated Uighurs tend to earn less than their Han equivalents, says Mr Hasmath. Attempts by the Chinese government to promote knowledge of Mandarin and Chinese culture in Xinjiang may generate more problems than they solve.

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## Sommer

What's the education language in USA? English.
In UK? English.
In Germany? Germany.
Every country will make the child learn the official language and use it in school, to make sure they can have a basic life.
Why should it be different in China?
And there will be effort of it, because with the same language people from different nation group can talk through with each other.

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## Beast

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> http://www.economist.com/news/china...will-not-bring-stability-xinjiang-tongue-tied
> 
> *Education in Xinjiang*
> *Tongue-tied*
> *Teaching Uighur children in Mandarin will not bring stability to Xinjiang*
> Jun 27th 2015 | SHUFU COUNTY, KASHGAR | From the print edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I CAN speak Chinese, I’m so awesome!” reads a sign on the wall of the Mingde primary school in Shufu, a town near the oasis city of Kashgar in the far western province of Xinjiang. Nearby, children’s artworks hang beneath another banner which proclaims: “The motherland is in my heart.” Though every pupil at the school is Uighur, one of China’s ethnic minority peoples, most lessons here are taught in Mandarin—a very different language from their Turkic one. It is the same at ever more schools across the region. Educating young Uighurs in Mandarin may one day help them find work—but it is also a means by which the government hopes to subdue Xinjiang and its many inhabitants who chafe at rule from Beijing.
> 
> Xinjiang began to fall under China’s control in the mid-18th century. It was then mainly populated by ethnic Uighurs, whose culture and Muslim faith set them apart from much of the rest of China; Kashgar is far closer to Kabul and Islamabad than it is to Beijing. Despite the migration into Xinjiang of Hans, China’s ethnic majority, minorities (mainly Uighurs) still make up 60% of its residents, compared with less than 10% in China overall.
> 
> For decades the region has been racked by a low-level insurgency by Uighurs against growing Han influence. In 2009 around 200 people died in ethnic clashes in Urumqi, the region’s capital. Security has since been ramped up—the police and army are ever-present—but last July tensions flared again when an estimated 100 people were killed near Kashgar following attacks on government buildings. Violence has spread beyond Xinjiang’s borders too, into China’s interior. In 2013 five people were killed when a car driven by Uighurs ploughed into pedestrians in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square and burst into flames. Last year 31 people died in a knife attack by Uighurs in the south-western city of Kunming, an incident described by state media as the country’s “9/11”. Eighteen people were reportedly killed on June 22nd in an attack by Uighurs armed with knives and bombs on a checkpoint in Kashgar.
> 
> As well as bulldozing dissent, the government has tried pouring in cash to boost Xinjiang’s economy. Yet Hans have disproportionately benefited from the resulting boom; minorities’ feelings of alienation and inequality have worsened. Hans and non-Hans in Xinjiang are growing further apart—some Hans are nervous about entering Uighur districts; Uighurs complain of harassment by the police. Officials are beginning to recognise that there is a social problem, as well as a security-related one. There is a renewed focus on breaking down ethnic barriers and promoting a shared national identity.
> 
> Mandarin-teaching for Uighurs is seen as a tool to achieve these goals. Since 2011 officials in the region have been promoting what they call “bilingual education”. By this they mean that most instruction is to be in Mandarin. Ever more schools are moving towards using Chinese only, with the exception of a few hours of classes each week in Uighur literature. President Xi Jinping emphasises this policy as a way to fight terrorism. Last year he described better education as “essential” to the region’s long-term stability. Schools such as Mingde, with its troops of Uighur children wearing the red ties of the Young Pioneers, a junior branch of the Communist Party, embody the government’s great hope.
> 
> The government’s desire to boost Mandarin-speaking ability is reasonable: few Uighurs speak fluent, or even passable, Chinese. Mastering the language should open up opportunities for Uighur children and improve their job prospects (in 2010, 83% of all Uighurs were farmers). Bringing Han and Uighur children into the same classroom, as some urban schools are at last trying to do, should help too.
> 
> But the authorities risk arousing complaints that Uighur culture is being marginalised. Even before Xinjiang’s ethnic troubles intensified in 2009, schools conformed to Han norms. Recently bans have been made stricter on the observance of fasting rituals during the month of Ramadan. Few Han children in Xinjiang are taught minority languages.
> 
> Our culture, not yours
> 
> The Xinjiang curriculum is about learning to be Chinese. Schools prize “patriotic education” even more than others in China. At Mingde the Chinese flag hangs at the front of each classroom between laminated photos of the late leaders Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping. A kindergarten in Kasghar features a wall poster declaring: “I am Chinese. Beijing is my country’s capital, I love China. I love the motherland, I love the Great Wall. I love my father, mother, teacher, classmates, but most of all I love my motherland.”
> 
> Around two-thirds of minority children now receive Mandarin-language instruction. But educational quality is suffering. Not enough Uighurs speak sufficient Mandarin to teach in it; those who do want better-paid jobs than teaching. It is hard to attract Han teachers to a poor, volatile region. The government is pumping money into the recruitment effort, but it says Xinjiang still needs 30,000 more teachers who can speak both Mandarin and a local language. Uighur-speaking parents can rarely help their children with school work and many pupils have no chance to practise the Mandarin they acquire. Even in a model school like Mingde, staff admit that children speak only Uighur outside class. Many six-year-olds cannot understand basic questions in Chinese. Other skills suffer, too: children typically learn English via Mandarin, for example, even though English and Uighur—unlike Chinese—both use alphabetical scripts.
> 
> Some older Uighurs view such instruction as an erosion of their culture. Reza Hasmath of Oxford University says they may therefore either fail to support their children’s education or actively resist it (some send their children to illegal religious schools). Despite this—and unlike in Tibet—there have been few reports of public protests against Mandarin-medium teaching. This is probably because other issues, such as the banning of Muslim veils, have raised more hackles, and possibly because some incidents go unreported.
> 
> In other parts of China, such as Hong Kong and Shanghai, where Mandarin is not the native tongue, learning the national language does indeed open doors. But in Xinjiang even many Uighurs who speak fluent Mandarin find it hard to get ahead, partly because of racial prejudice. Highly educated Uighurs tend to earn less than their Han equivalents, says Mr Hasmath. Attempts by the Chinese government to promote knowledge of Mandarin and Chinese culture in Xinjiang may generate more problems than they solve.



Another pack of lies by West. Xinjiang is already under China control during Tang dynasty. The white man simply can only resort to lie twisting to serve its purpose.

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## Beidou2020

CPC should accelerate the migration of Han Chinese to Xinjiang and Tibet. That's the only way those 2 places will develop.

No need for these outsiders taking up land that belong to Han Chinese.

Send all the Uighurs back to where they came from (Middle East) and send all the Tibetans back to where they came from (Subcontinent).

The reason that Xinjiang and Tibet are not yet developed like Shanghai is because 2 backward groups of people are more concerned about fake and imaginary religions than concentrating on economic development like the rest of East Asia.

The best thing to happen is to Xinjiang and Tibet is for the population in those 2 provinces to be 100% ethnic Han Chinese. There is only one way to do that. I think you know what I'm referring to.

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## gau8av

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC should accelerate the migration of Han Chinese to Xinjiang and Tibet. That's the only way those 2 places will develop.
> 
> No need for these outsiders taking up land that belong to Han Chinese.
> 
> Send all the Uighurs back to where they came from (Middle East) and send all the Tibetans back to where they came from (Subcontinent).
> 
> The reason that Xinjiang and Tibet are not yet developed like Shanghai is because 2 backward groups of people are more concerned about fake and imaginary religions than concentrating on economic development like the rest of East Asia.
> 
> The best thing to happen is to Xinjiang and Tibet is for the population in those 2 provinces to be 100% ethnic Han Chinese. There is only one way to do that. I think you know what I'm referring to.


yeah, ethnic cleansing through demographic manipulation à la comrade stalin 









but, jokes aside, terrorists like these like should be dealt with in the harshest possible way and I have have full faith that the Chinese state, which is not bogged down by western style "democratic principles" etc, will do a good job of eliminating this menace.

go PLA ! looking fwd to the total annihilation of the uighur jihadis in xinjiang !


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## Lux de Veritas

Do everyone in Pakistan need learn Urdu?


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## IR-TR

Good, they need to be brought into the fold. Holding on to some dumn (never been a country) ideology or hope, is stupid. And China doesn't need the US' advice, who's only solution is secession. Allow the Uyghur language to be thought as a stand alone course, the rest of everything is done in mandarin. End of subject. And to any Turkish friend who might read this, what does Turkey do with the Kurds? Same story. Language shouldn't be forbidden, but you don't want a permanent second-class society in your country because they don't speak the language.

PS: less than 10% of China is Uyghur? How about less than 1%? Disgusting propaganda. 10 million of 1.3 billion. Come on huh 'economist'.

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## XiangLong

gau8av said:


> yeah, ethnic cleansing through demographic manipulation à la comrade stalin



You will be surprised to find out how many people have been ''ethnic cleansed'' throughout history. The only way to stop said ''ethnic cleansing'' would be to fully stop migration in the way North Korea would do. Complete isolation would be in order to stop interbreeding between races. 
Migration has even gone so far in the Netherlands that today, only 2% PERCENT of the people living here are fully ethnic Dutch! 98% of the people have somewhere in their lineage a German, French, Spanish or even a Scandinavian or Russian ancestor! You can find everything here on this website that our Prof. has insisted on visiting lol. Everything is in Dutch, so you might have to google translate most of the things, but even then, I think the graphs speak for themselves.

Homepage | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl

Migratiecijfers | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl

And most times, it works out for the better. Just look at how the Netherlands and the US for that matter, have developed themselves over the years. And as for me, I don't care if a person is an ethnic Uighur, Tibetan, black African, German or even Japanese. As long as you see the PRC flag and its laws as that of your home country, I consider you a Chinese.



IR-TR said:


> Good, they need to be brought into the fold. Holding on to some dumn (never been a country) ideology or hope, is stupid. And China doesn't need the US' advice, who's only solution is secession. Allow the Uyghur language to be thought as a stand alone course, the rest of everything is done in mandarin. End of subject. And to any Turkish friend who might read this, what does Turkey do with the Kurds? Same story. Language shouldn't be forbidden, but you don't want a permanent second-class society in your country because they don't speak the language.
> 
> PS: less than 10% of China is Uyghur? How about less than 1%? Disgusting propaganda. 10 million of 1.3 billion. Come on huh 'economist'.



Hey gast, je zal verrast zijn over hoeveel Nederlandse mensen in onze eigen Nederland ook 'echte' Nederlanders zijn! XD

Homepage | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl

Migratiecijfers | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl

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## gau8av

XiangLong said:


> You will be surprised to find out how many people have been ''ethnic cleansed'' throughout history. The only way stop said ''ethnic cleansing'' would be to fully stop migration in the way North Korea would do. Complete isolation would be in order to stop interbreeding between races. Migration has even gone so far in the Netherlands that today, only 2% PERCENT of the people living here are fully ethnic Dutch! 98% of the people have somewhere in their lineage a German, French, Spanish or even a Scandinavian or Russian ancestor! You can find everything here on this website that our Prof. has insisted on visiting lol. Everything is in Dutch, so you might have to google translate most of the things, but even then, I think the graphs speak for themselves.
> 
> Homepage | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl
> 
> Migratiecijfers | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl
> 
> And most times, it works out for the better. Just look at how the Netherlands and the US for that matter, have developed themselves over the years. And as for me, I don't care if a person is an ethnic Uighur, Tibetan, black African, German or even Japanese. As long as you see the PRC flag and its laws as that of your home country, I consider you a Chinese.
> 
> 
> 
> Hey gast, je zal verrast zijn over hoeveel Nederlandse mensen in onze eigen Nederland ook 'echte' Nederlanders zijn! XD
> 
> Homepage | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl
> 
> Migratiecijfers | vijfeeuwenmigratie.nl


ok, no, I didn't go about translating the dutch stuff.. I don't care much about the whole 'race' or 'religion' thing either

and I was only 70% serious about the "no democratic shackles" bit, China have done exceptionally well for themselves without "religion" or "democracy", good luck to them !

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## Nothing

National language should be part of education. In today's world people has to respect their national heritage and rise above individual preferences.
Even in India Modi start pressing on hindi for day to day use. Without strong national identity one can't survice for long time.
With Uighur , they can't resist this. They are part of greater China and be with it. Any resistance to it should be dealt with strong hand.

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## Jlaw

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC should accelerate the migration of Han Chinese to Xinjiang and Tibet. That's the only way those 2 places will develop.
> 
> No need for these outsiders taking up land that belong to Han Chinese.
> 
> Send all the Uighurs back to where they came from (Middle East) and send all the Tibetans back to where they came from (Subcontinent).
> 
> The reason that Xinjiang and Tibet are not yet developed like Shanghai is because 2 backward groups of people are more concerned about fake and imaginary religions than concentrating on economic development like the rest of East Asia.
> 
> The best thing to happen is to Xinjiang and Tibet is for the population in those 2 provinces to be 100% ethnic Han Chinese. There is only one way to do that. I think you know what I'm referring to.



The CPC have increased the population of these two groups and limiting Hans to only one child. You probably know that Chinese people are the only people who treat outsiders better than their own.

Even in a Chinese restaurant, the white folks get better treatment than Chinese.

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## tranquilium

Language is a large barrier for culture integration. I joked previously that EU needs universal translator to work, but the point is the same. To integrate smaller groups into a larger culture requires communication and you can't communicate when you don't even speak the language.

The work is also a slow process. It may take centuries, so a lot of patience are needed.

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## kadamba-warrior

rott said:


> As an ethnic Han Chinese, I see Pakistani as a Pakistani, a real friend and a brother indeed. To me a Pakistani are people who are in Pakistan or originated from Pakistan regardless where they are presently.
> And I don't get entangled in religion. Religion means jack to me. I will first recognize you as a Pakistani rather than being a Muslim or islamist or whatever.
> I do know Pakistanis have utmost respect for the Chinese people and we, vice versa.
> I for one, do not see any good Pakistani citizens backstabbing any Chinese regardless of what we do with the Uighurs in Xinjiang. To top it all, it will be the dear people of Pakistan who encourages us to clamp down hard on these terrorist as I've seen from some of the comments from our Pakistani brothers in this thread. I say thank you all for your support.
> Well, you got one honest view from one unbiased Chinese regardless of my nationality.



While I respect your opinion, I think many people here including yourself, are getting worked up on wrong assumptions.

I don't think that any of the Indian posters here are accusing Pakistani Government/Establishment of backstabbing the Chinese when it comes to problem in Xinjiang! All we are saying that, by allowing/encouraging anti-India terror elements to flourish in its areas, the Pakistani regime has established an ecosystem of terror that nurtures itself - sometimes even operating beyond its own control to shelter/attack its own interests/allies. The participants of the previous terror incident in Xinjiang were traced back to the same ecosystem in Pakistan and may well be the case this time too.

Based on their own previous incidences of similar religion-based terror (which was traced back to Pakistani tribal areas), I thought the Chinese regime and the Chinese posters here would have learnt their lessons of not supporting terror anywhere. But alas, the geo-politic dividends of supporting an anti-India terror machinery have yet again been deemed far more important than working with India against all kinds of terror.

The Chinese and Pakistani posters even congratulated each other almost obscenely on the successful cock-blocking of the actions against Lakhvi (who is a known member of an UN-recognized terror group) by Chinese administration -- *merely on the basis of technicalities*.

I mean, how blind can you get in your hatred against India that you support a known thug, who has absolutely no strategic value for either Pakistan or China - other than fomenting trouble in India?

Of course, almost as a payback, the terror struck China closer to home. Whether it was done with the help of Pakistani (which looks unlikely) or not, is not much important for the victims of that terror.

Yes, India is helpless when it wants to get Pakistani extremists punished the moment China decides against it. Yes, India will continue to suffer because of the Chinese patronage that Pakistani terror enjoys at an international level.

But Xinjiang will also continue to pay the price for the indiscretions of their political masters in Beijing.


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## mike2000 is back

XiangLong said:


> And as for me, I don't care if a person is an ethnic Uighur, Tibetan, *black African,* German or even Japanese. As long as you see the PRC flag and its laws as that of your home country, I consider you a Chinese.


WOW....really??? If true then i'm impressed(you must be one in a million in China then). However i'm afraid most/large majority of Chinese don't agree one bit with what you just said. lol



Nothing said:


> National language should be part of education. In today's world people has to respect their national heritage and rise above individual preferences.
> Even in India Modi start pressing on hindi for day to day use. Without strong national identity one can't survice for long time.
> With Uighur , they can't resist this. They are part of greater China and be with it. Any resistance to it should be dealt with strong hand.



Are you nuts bro? Don't you know Muslims are always 'oppressed' in every non Muslim country?? They should learn only their Arabic language and study in their madrasas, only by doing so can the Chinese government show that they are a true democracy and respect Muslims rights



Jlaw said:


> The CPC have increased the population of these two groups and limiting Hans to only one child. You probably know that Chinese people are the only people who treat outsiders better than their own.
> 
> Even in a Chinese restaurant, the white folks get better treatment than Chinese.



True about the last sentence. I have witnessed this personally when i visited China several times. However, seems it doesnt really extends to other foreigners(non whites) to that extent.lol

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## northeast

Another piece of sh!t come from western propaganda machine.They try to fool Chinese with all kinds of ridiculous theories,but all I can see is either the writer is a retard or he thinks Chinese are retards or maybe both.


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## Kyle Sun

If uighurs in xinjiang can speak mandarin , situation will be much better.
They can get jobs in Shanghai beijing wuhan....
for now , factories do not like to hire uighurs who can not speak mandarin.

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## Tractor

This man says that Mandarin is so beautiful.
He will learn it in the rest of his whole life.





This girl says standard Mandarin but she always keep distance from Han people.


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## Lux de Veritas

In Singapore, the Islamo and Hindu keep shouting racial discrimination when job posting requires Mandarin skills. They fxxx Chinese for being racist, put Mandarin there to filter them out.

These minorities do not want to study but they keep using racial discrimination and self victimization.

Then there are many NGO clowns and media who rant rant rant racist Chinese.

In China, when Han are good and ask minorities to learn Mandarin. You see NGO and white man newspaper clowns cry racist also.

Basically anything under the sun is Chinese racism.

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## pher

you bet their muslim brothers will cry foul for this new evidence of China oppressing uyhgurs

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## 帅的一匹

if Uyghers cant speak Mandarin, how hey gonna survive in the modern society? they sall both learn Uygher and Mandarin.



Kyle Sun said:


> If uighurs in xinjiang can speak mandarin , situation will be much better.
> They can get jobs in Shanghai beijing wuhan....
> for now , factories do not like to hire uighurs who can not speak mandarin.


misunderstanding occurs when people cant communicate with each other.

I definitely like those Uygher children, they are lovely.

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## Kyle Sun

wanglaokan said:


> if Uyghers cant speak Mandarin, how hey gonna survive in the modern society? they sall both learn Uygher and Mandarin.
> 
> 
> misunderstanding occurs when people cant communicate with each other.


Correct . 
If they have language issue, they can not integrate into mainstream society. 
Our gov are working hard to make XJ richer ,people get food /job/family.

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## 帅的一匹

Kyle Sun said:


> Correct .
> If they have language issue, they can not integrate into mainstream society.
> Our gov are working hard to make XJ richer ,people get food /job/family.


never trust the western 'free world', they utilize people then throw them into garbage. Uyghers are our family men and women, we shall live a better future. All the culture and religion practice shall be well protected, thats make them Uygh.ers

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## Tractor

wanglaokan said:


> never trust the western 'free world', they utilize people then throw them into garbage. Uyghers are our family men and women, we shall live a better future. All the culture and religion practice shall be well protected, thats make them Uygh.ers


Not really,just what Uyghers themselves look like make themselves Uyghers.
This young man calls himself Uygher and I don't think so.


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## XiangLong

mike2000 is back said:


> WOW....really??? If true then i'm impressed(you must be one in a million in China then). However i'm afraid most/large majority of Chinese don't agree one bit with what you just said. lol



I think we are living in an era where nationality should overcome the division of races by now. And correlating back to the case of China, I am sure that there are thousands upon thousands of Tibetan- and Uighur-Chinese compatriots in both the PLA and civil society who will defend the Chinese homeland with their blood as much as any Han Chinese would. Unlike what Richard Gere and Kadeer, and their crownies are trying to prove otherwise.

And some Chinese brothers are free to disagree with me, but at the end of the day, does the skin colour or religion of a person really matter if they want to contribute to the rise of China?

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## bsruzm

IR-TR said:


> And to any Turkish friend who might read this, what does Turkey do with the Kurds? Same story.


I will easily say that you confuse and know almost nothing about Turkey so I doubt about China.


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## mike2000 is back

XiangLong said:


> I think we are living in an era where nationality should overcome the division of races by now. And correlating back to the case of China, I am sure that there are thousands upon thousands of Tibetan- and Uighur-Chinese compatriots in both the PLA and civil society who will defend the Chinese homeland with their blood as much as any Han Chinese would. Unlike what Richard Gere and Kadeer, and their crownies are trying to prove otherwise.
> 
> And some Chinese brothers are free to disagree with me, but at the end of the day, does the skin colour or religion of a person really matter if they want to contribute to the rise of China?



Agree completely bro. However as I said, I'm afraid the large majority of Chinese don't think the way you do. Most ultra nationalists don't want the great hun blood to be mixed with other unpure barbarian foreigners.


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## FairAndUnbiased

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree completely bro. However as I said, I'm afraid the large majority of Chinese don't think the way you do. Most ultra nationalists don't want the great hun blood to be mixed with other unpure barbarian foreigners.



nope that's white attitude. Proof: Dylan Roof.

[HASHTAG]#blacklivesmatter[/HASHTAG]
[HASHTAG]#charleston[/HASHTAG]

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## ChineseTiger1986

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree completely bro. However as I said, I'm afraid the large majority of Chinese don't think the way you do. Most ultra nationalists don't want the great hun blood to be mixed with other unpure barbarian foreigners.


 
Nope, I am totally fine with the intermarriage between the 56 ethnic groups in China.

Your aforementioned post only referred the mentality of the White Americans, not the mentality of the Han Chinese.



FairAndUnbiased said:


> nope that's white attitude. Proof: Dylan Roof.
> 
> [HASHTAG]#blacklivesmatter[/HASHTAG]
> [HASHTAG]#charleston[/HASHTAG]


 
Most Black Americans have no language barrier, no religion barrier, cultural barrier, yet they are still regarded as subhumans.

And Dylan Roof will most likely get spared from the capital punishment.

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## TaiShang

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree completely bro. However as I said, I'm afraid the large majority of Chinese don't think the way you do. Most ultra nationalists don't want the great hun blood to be mixed with other unpure barbarian foreigners.



You simply reflect your inherent racism upon others without even bothering to back up your sweeping claims. By simply insulting others for being a racist without proof, you are being dishonest at the least.

I hope not all British are deeply inherently racist, insulting and ignorant as you are.

*I call you (not the large majority of British) a dishonorable, undignified and mean person* based on the evidence (quote) above. Now I dare you to prove me wrong and prove yourself right that "the large majority of Chinese" are racists.

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## sicsheep

CCP forced me to learn English when they made Enlgish obligatory subject 20 some years ago, and here I am, 
what about some sympathy here

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## tranquilium

mike2000 is back said:


> Agree completely bro. However as I said, I'm afraid the large majority of Chinese don't think the way you do. Most ultra nationalists don't want the great hun blood to be mixed with other unpure barbarian foreigners.




Huh? Where did you get that idea? Chinese is pretty much the most open race there is for interracial marriage, far more open than Europeans.

The modern day Han group absorbed a lot of culture groups during its long history. People of different social class also mixed frequently and move around frequently. There is also little to no religious barrier because China is pretty much the most secular government there is even in the ancient times----there is a reason we ended with the largest homogeneous culture in the world while the Europe is fractured into small states.

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## IR-TR

bsruzm said:


> I will easily say that you confuse and know almost nothing about Turkey so I doubt about China.



Kurds couldn't even learn their own language in Turkey. Heck, speaking Kurdish could get you fined/slapped around (same as in Iran btw). So China is a lot more ahead in that regard.

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## mike2000 is back

tranquilium said:


> Huh? Where did you get that idea? Chinese is pretty much the most open race there is for interracial marriage, far more open than Europeans.
> 
> The modern day Han group absorbed a lot of culture groups during its long history. People of different social class also mixed frequently and move around frequently. There is also little to no religious barrier because China is pretty much the most secular government there is even in the ancient times----there is a reason we ended with the largest homogeneous culture in the world while the Europe is fractured into small states.



Can a black African born and raised in China, who loves China and will defend it to death, can he ever be Chinese and regarded as so by chinese people/society? can he ever assume a position of responsibility in the Chinese government? Etc etc. in fact forget about a black African born and raised in China, even half black half Chinese born kids aren't accepted as Chinese 

The simple thread of black han in China which was opened here proved my points . And yes I have been to China myself I know how they perceive people of colour, and how they do towards Whites. So depends on the race.


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC should accelerate the migration of Han Chinese to Xinjiang and Tibet. That's the only way those 2 places will develop.
> 
> No need for these outsiders taking up land that belong to Han Chinese.
> 
> *Send all the Uighurs back to where they came from (Middle East)* and send all the Tibetans back to where they came from (Subcontinent).
> 
> The reason that Xinjiang and Tibet are not yet developed like Shanghai is because 2 backward groups of people are more concerned about fake and imaginary religions than concentrating on economic development like the rest of East Asia.
> 
> The best thing to happen is to Xinjiang and Tibet is for the population in those 2 provinces to be 100% ethnic Han Chinese. There is only one way to do that. I think you know what I'm referring to.


How is that going to work?

The entire Islamic world shall condemn China and even place sanctions on China.

Just like Burma's case with Rohingya

Like oil embargo, How will China escape such consequences?


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## tranquilium

mike2000 is back said:


> Can a black African born and raised in China, who loves China and will defend it to death, can he ever be Chinese and regarded as so by chinese people/society? can he ever assume a position of responsibility in the Chinese government? Etc etc. in fact forget about a black African born and raised in China, even half black half Chinese born kids aren't accepted as Chinese
> 
> The simple thread of black han in China which was opened here proved my points . And yes I have been to China myself I know how they perceive people of colour, and how they do towards Whites. So depends on the race.



You mean like this kid, who is aspiring to be a badmington player right now?







黑皮肤的“林丹” ，中非混血儿打羽毛球回报母亲_体育新闻_看看新闻网

I think you are confusing your own issue at Britain with Chinese issues. Black Han thread? If you are referring the illegal immigrant issues at Guangzhou region, then the issue has to do with individuals being illegal immigrants. It doesn't matter if they black, white or Asian, illegal immigrant really isn't well receive no matter where you are in the world.



Syama Ayas said:


> How is that going to work?
> 
> The entire Islamic world shall condemn China and even place sanctions on China.
> 
> Just like Burma's case with Rohingya
> 
> Like oil embargo, How will China escape such consequences?



I don't support the deportation of Uighur to middle east. They have been there long enough, culture integration is a much more viable approach.

I do like to point out that if the Islam world can actually get along with itself and form some sort of general consensus, then it wouldn't be in the boat it is in today and frankly everyone else would be happier too.

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## Ahiska

Beidou2020 said:


> CPC should accelerate the migration of Han Chinese to Xinjiang and Tibet. That's the only way those 2 places will develop.
> 
> No need for these outsiders taking up land that belong to Han Chinese.
> 
> Send all the Uighurs back to where they came from (Middle East) and send all the Tibetans back to where they came from (Subcontinent).
> 
> The reason that Xinjiang and Tibet are not yet developed like Shanghai is because 2 backward groups of people are more concerned about fake and imaginary religions than concentrating on economic development like the rest of East Asia.
> 
> The best thing to happen is to Xinjiang and Tibet is for the population in those 2 provinces to be 100% ethnic Han Chinese. There is only one way to do that. I think you know what I'm referring to.


Are you retarded?
Uyghurs are not Middle Eastern they are natives of this region.
While i dont support Terrorists you should study the History of the region before making yourself look like a clown

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## qwerrty

IR-TR said:


> PS: less than 10% of China is Uyghur? How about less than 1%? Disgusting propaganda. 10 million of 1.3 billion. Come on huh 'economist'.



nice catch. didn't see that part. lol. really disgusting propaganda

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## Ahiska

qwerrty said:


> nice catch. didn't see that part. lol. really disgusting propaganda


Uyghurs were the clear majority before China annexed them in the 20th century.

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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> Uyghurs were the clear majority before China annexed them in the 20th century.



Sure sweety. Did the MHP tell you that? And even if they were, it's a done deal. End of subject. Go cry into some babyblue flag.

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## xenon54 out

IR-TR said:


> And to any Turkish friend who might read this, what does Turkey do with the Kurds?


Kurdish is being taught in state schools in case you didnt know.

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## IR-TR

xenon54 said:


> Kurdish is being taught in state schools in case you didnt know.



As a side course. I know, and after a million years, it just started. Meanwhile in China, all children learn and have always learned Uyghur. At such a rate even, that they could hardly speak Mandarin. Now, show me one Turkish Kurd who can't speak basic Turkish, because their region mainly teaches the Kurdish language in schools. In any case, teaching the national language is a must in any country, regardless of the culture or race of it's inhabitants. Secondary languages must be secondary.

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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> Sure sweety. Did the MHP tell you that? And even if they were, it's a done deal. End of subject. Go cry into some babyblue flag.


Why should the MHP teach me anything?
Im not even a Turkish national.


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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> Why should the MHP teach me anything?
> Im not even a Turkish national.



It's their style of historical revisionism. If you listen to those numbnuts, there are 500 million Turks in the world, and they were always the natives to their land. Yeah, like Turkey (Anatolia), which was EMPTY before the Central Asians conquered it. Give this Uyghur nonsense a rest. Even if they were all being put in an oven, there is nothing anybody can do about it. And they're not. The Chinese government invests more in Xinjiang than the entire 'Turkic' GDP put together. That's not hate. That's progress. If the Uyghurs don't like it, they can get the FCUK out of there, and settle in the Kazakh steppes.

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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> It's their style of historical revisionism. If you listen to those numbnuts, there are 500 million Turks in the world, and they were always the natives to their land. Yeah, like Turkey (Anatolia), which was EMPTY before the Central Asians conquered it. Give this Uyghur nonsense a rest. Even if they were all being put in an oven, there is nothing anybody can do about it. And they're not. The Chinese government invests more in Xinjiang than the entire 'Turkic' GDP put together. That's not hate. That's progress. If the Uyghurs don't like it, they can get the FCUK out of there, and settle in the Kazakh steppes.


While many Turkish nationalists are idiots.
I disagree with your opinion,.
Just because someone invests in a region doesnt mean that the people living there will live in prosperity.
And of course im interested in this since Uyghurs are related to my ethnic group.


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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> While many Turkish nationalists are idiots.
> I disagree with your opinion,.
> Just because someone invests in a region doesnt mean that the people living there will live in prosperity.
> And of course im interested in this since Uyghurs are related to my ethnic group.



You're a German Turkmen, meaning you're probably quite reasonable and not too impulsive. Do you really think there is genocide going on in Xinjiang? At best some discrimination, which is bad. But look at the Hui Chinese, also muslims. And they're living the live, fully integrated etc. You make of it what you can. It's completely unreasonable for less than 1% of the population to want independence, heck, even in a region in which they are only 40-45%. It's dumb to even think about it.


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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> You're a German Turkmen, meaning you're probably quite reasonable and not too impulsive. Do you really think there is genocide going on in Xinjiang? At best some discrimination, which is bad. But look at the Hui Chinese, also muslims. And they're living the live, fully integrated etc. You make of it what you can. It's completely unreasonable for less than 1% of the population to want independence, heck, even in a region in which they are only 40-45%. It's dumb to even think about it.


There is no genocide but everything points towards cultural and religious oppression.
Also while its true that the Uyghur population isnt big its also a fact that Xinjian/East Turkestan only has 20 million inhabitants (in which Uyghurs are 50%).
Also Hui are much different then Uyghurs for the fact that they were always Chinese they are not different to Han (except some religious and minor cultural aspects)


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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> There is no genocide but everything points towards cultural and religious oppression.
> Also while its true that the Uyghur population isnt big its also a fact that Xinjian/East Turkestan only has 20 million inhabitants (in which Uyghurs are 50%).
> Also Hui are much different then Uyghurs for the fact that they were always Chinese they are not different to Han (except some religious and minor cultural aspects)



What you say is correct. But then there is the fact that te Uyghurs need to understand that China is their country, and need to at least 'integrate' if not assimilate. Keeping your cullture, heritage and language is great. But you need to speak Mandarin fluently, because all employers will want that. I just hate people who think: "I'll rather go hungry than change ANYTHING". Not saying most Uyghurs are like that, but you have to just face the facts and join the game. There is never ever ever going to be an uyghuristan, so why not make the best of it and work hard, learn the language and become wealthy. All the while you can still be muslim, still speak Uyghur and still display your heritage. Heck, look at any youtube film on Urumqi, full of headscarves and kebapçi. So unless they equate independence to freedom, they're always going to be not free.


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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> What you say is correct. But then there is the fact that te Uyghurs need to understand that China is their country, and need to at least 'integrate' if not assimilate. Keeping your cullture, heritage and language is great. But you need to speak Mandarin fluently, because all employers will want that. I just hate people who think: "I'll rather go hungry than change ANYTHING". Not saying most Uyghurs are like that, but you have to just face the facts and join the game. There is never ever ever going to be an uyghuristan, so why not make the best of it and work hard, learn the language and become wealthy. All the while you can still be muslim, still speak Uyghur and still display your heritage. Heck, look at any youtube film on Urumqi, full of headscarves and kebapçi. So unless they equate independence to freedom, they're always going to be not free.


Oh you misunderstand me of course Uyghurs should learn Mandarin and properly seek to become strong in China but im not comfortable with the situation right now there needs to be more done and no colonising the region wont help it.....

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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> Oh you misunderstand me of course Uyghurs should learn Mandarin and properly seek to become strong in China but im not comfortable with the situation right now there needs to be more done and no colonising the region wont help it.....



I agree. And I hope the Chinese government does just that. It seems to be going in the good direction. I'm honestly quite impressed. When I first read about the Uyghurs, I thought the Han were killing them all, forcing to convert, trying to kill their language etc. Then I googled it further. I saw gigantic mosques, many headscarves, many male head covers, many Arabic scripts on public buildings, and the fact that Uyghur is the official language of the province. Then I started seeing through all the Turanist BS, which is pure and simple racism. And guess what, a Turanist Turk will still see a Uyghur or Central Asian as a subhuman. Even Bulgarian Turks. So it's just a ploy to gain more power and sway over other people/countries.

Anyway, I wish China and the Uyghurs all the best. I think we'd all be lucky to get that much investment and such a boost in living standards. Just need to let go of that 'independence' thought. The Uyghurs were 'independent' for all of 4 years, while China was being raped by Japan.

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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> I agree. And I hope the Chinese government does just that. It seems to be going in the good direction. I'm honestly quite impressed. When I first read about the Uyghurs, I thought the Han were killing them all, forcing to convert, trying to kill their language etc. Then I googled it further. I saw gigantic mosques, many headscarves, many male head covers, many Arabic scripts on public buildings, and the fact that Uyghur is the official language of the province. Then I started seeing through all the Turanist BS, which is pure and simple racism. And guess what, a Turanist Turk will still see a Uyghur or Central Asian as a subhuman. Even Bulgarian Turks. So it's just a ploy to gain more power and sway over other people/countries.
> 
> Anyway, I wish China and the Uyghurs all the best. I think we'd all be lucky to get that much investment and such a boost in living standards. Just need to let go of that 'independence' thought. The Uyghurs were 'independent' for all of 4 years, while China was being raped by Japan.


The biggest problem i see is that China is settling Han in the region (just like in Tibet) not to prosper the region but try to use a demografic change to make the region forcefully loyal to China (and never lose it again)


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## Azizam

Ahiska said:


> The biggest problem i see is that China is settling Han in the region (just like in Tibet) not to prosper the region but try to use a demografic change to make the region forcefully loyal to China (and never lose it again)


On China's part it's a good strategy. Something which the Turks could have done in their South Eastern parts. Let's face it, there are no angels in the world.

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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> The biggest problem i see is that China is settling Han in the region (just like in Tibet) not to prosper the region but try to use a demografic change to make the region forcefully loyal to China (and never lose it again)



Well, the end result is the same. But in any case, aside from what you say, it is actually true that many Uyghurs (conservative idiots as they are) don't know much Mandarin NOR English. Keep in mind Xinjiang is China's frontier to the outside world. A HUGE percentage of trade, and growing, is coming in from Eurasia, meaning the first port of call is Xinjiang. So the border towns become boom towns, with huge trade volumes. If the local population is too thick headed to learn any useful language, bet your arse a billion HAN will be jumping to go there and make money. Let's look at it this way: if Diyarbakir was a huge booming trading town, you'd see many many Turks migrating there. Not to crowd out the Kurds, but to go and make money. People want to make money.

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## bsruzm

IR-TR said:


> The Chinese government invests more in Xinjiang than the entire 'Turkic' GDP put together. That's not hate. That's progress.


Kul Tegin Inscription exactly speaks of what your case is and what you call a progress, it describes the unwise successors who let the state go to ruin and the unruliness of the people who were seduced by the soft words and soft materials of the Chinese, let go of their country and submitted to the Chinese, became their servants, gave up their Turkic titles and adopted Chinese titles and went on military campaigns to conquer for Chinese emperor. Then, Turkic common people apparently said as follows: ''We used to be a people who had a state. Where is our state now? For whose benefits are we conquering these lands? We used to be a people who had its Khagan, where is our Khagan now? To who are we giving our services? Your sons worthy of becoming lords became servants''
You prove a good example of what this ancient inscription warns of.





Senin atan kim bilmem ama biz atamızı bilir, sözünü bilir, dinleriz.



IR-TR said:


> Give this Uyghur nonsense a rest. If the Uyghurs don't like it, they can get the FCUK out of there, and settle in the Kazakh steppes.


It is you who should be given a rest here. Stop being ignorantly confused and comparing.
Hopefully you are being ignorantly confused.


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## Luca1

Nothing said:


> National language should be part of education. In today's world people has to respect their national heritage and rise above individual preferences.
> Even in India Modi start pressing on hindi for day to day use. Without strong national identity one can't survice for long time.
> With Uighur , they can't resist this. They are part of greater China and be with it. Any resistance to it should be dealt with strong hand.



In India, the language that tie everyone together is English, not Hindi. Ask the Tamils.. Everyone in India should be educated in English first and foremost. They should learn regional languages like Hindi or Marati but English should be primary.


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## chhota bheem

Luca1 said:


> In India, the language that tie everyone together is English, not Hindi. Ask the Tamils.. Everyone in India should be educated in English first and foremost. They should learn regional languages like Hindi or Marati but English should be primary.


If you go to an english medium schoold in India,then english is primary.
But India has ,malayalam medium schools,tamil medium schools,kanada medium schools telugu medium schools,marati medium,bengali medium,odiya medium,every state has its own regional language schools.

In all these regional schools the regional language will be primary.

People have CHOICE to select their medium of education.Its true that many prefer english medium for employeability.

If you go for regional language as primary then its mostly Govt jobs.

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## dlclong

*The Uighurs from North Mongolia plateau.
Han more than they first arrived in Xinjiang，In the Han Dynasty Han began management in Xinjiang..This is the fact that they arrived in Xinjiang after the Tang Dynasty.
Han and Irani people Live in harmony in Xinjiang.
But Uighurs ancestors came to Xinjiang rape of the natives, so today the appearance of Uighurs is half east Asian and half Indo -European people
Proved that they were the invaders.*

It seems that the Turks believe, the Eurasian continent should be their "Turkic people". Other peoples occupied somewhere, whether early or later than Turks, does not belong to them, as long as the Turks have passed through, the place should belong to their Turkic people. Turks can slaughter, oppressed indigenous Tocharians, the people of Armenia, the Kurds, other ethnic groups,,.


In fact, the Turks are not the same people,
Is a number of different No detailed history people,Say some similar language.
The word "Turkic" comes from the Han records.
The Turks and the ancient Turkic people is far more diffrent. If the Turks in Greece announced that their ancestors is the old Turkic people, then said English Indian can also claim to be British.
The modern Turks and ancient Turkic people is different. If modern Turks announced that their ancestors is old Turkic people,the Indian speak English can also claim they r British or New Zealand white.

*Incidentally, the ancient ancestors of the Uighurs do not think of themselves as Turks!
The Turks r only colonialists and oppressors.
We help them to defeat the turks.
At the same time,The demise of the Eastern Turks,It was with their help was able to achieve !After the demise of Turkic Khanate,Uighur ancestors established the Uighur/Huihu Khanate.

Today some people's behavior is ridiculous。

If the Uighurs and the Turks are brothers, so English speaking Indians,south african and British people should also be brothers.


*

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## Luca1

chhota bheem said:


> If you go to an english medium schoold in India,then english is primary.
> But India has ,malayalam medium schools,tamil medium schools,kanada medium schools telugu medium schools,marati medium,bengali medium,odiya medium,every state has its own regional language schools.
> 
> In all these regional schools the regional language will be primary.
> 
> People have CHOICE to select their medium of education.Its true that many prefer english medium for employeability.
> 
> If you go for regional language as primary then its mostly Govt jobs.



And that is the issue. Since India is a legacy of the British empire, English should be the primary language and other languages are secondary.


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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang builds equipment manufacturing base*
June 27, 2015
An underground and rail equipment manufacturing project started construction on Friday in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, which aims to be a manufacturing base in the west region.

*With an investment of one billion yuan (164 million U.S. dollars), the project mainly produces high-end underground mining and tunnel construction equipment, said Liu Feixiang, chairman of China Railway Construction Heavy Industry Co. Ltd.*

By building a high-end equipment manufacturing base, *companies can participate in Xinjiang's development and sell their products to central, west Asia and east Europe via the region's opening-up, said Liu.*

The project will be completed by July 2016. It is located in the Urumqi Economic and Technological Development Zone in Toutunhe district.

Industries such as energy development and equipment manufacturing in the eastern areas have accelerated their transfer to the west.

*In recent years, the Urumqi economic zone has attracted investment from Shaanxi Automobile Group, Sany Group and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, etc. Last year, CSR Zhuzhou Electric Locomotive Co., Ltd signed an agreement with the zone to invest 3 billion yuan in high-end rail transit manufacturing.*

In the future, subways, mining and water works projects in Xinjiang can use locally produced equipment.

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## IR-TR

bsruzm said:


> Kul Tegin Inscription exactly speaks of what your case is and what you call a progress, it describes the unwise successors who let the state go to ruin and the unruliness of the people who were seduced by the soft words and soft materials of the Chinese, let go of their country and submitted to the Chinese, became their servants, gave up their Turkic titles and adopted Chinese titles and went on military campaigns to conquer for Chinese emperor. Then, Turkic common people apparently said as follows: ''We used to be a people who had a state. Where is our state now? For whose benefits are we conquering these lands? We used to be a people who had its Khagan, where is our Khagan now? To who are we giving our services? Your sons worthy of becoming lords became servants''
> You prove a good example of what this ancient inscription warns of.
> View attachment 233770
> 
> Senin atan kim bilmem ama biz atamızı bilir, sözünü bilir, dinleriz.
> 
> It is you who should be given a rest here. Stop being ignorantly confused and comparing.
> Hopefully you are being ignorantly confused.



I can't stand separatism. Can't deny the Kurds with one hand and sponsor the Uyghurs with the other hand. Kind of hypocritical no? And since I don't want to see the Kurds going anywhere, I'd leave the Uyghurs right at home, in China. Your 'Khagan' is long dead and gone. Live in the present.

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## -SINAN-

Just one advice to Turkish posters.

Chinese mod of this section is extremely biased against Turks and you would be banned in no time if you discuss with Chinese. Do it in our section if you don't wanna get banned.


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## Kyle Sun

Sinan said:


> Just one advice to Turkish posters.
> 
> Chinese mod of this section is extremely biased against Turks and you would be banned in no time if you discuss with Chinese. Do it in our section if you don't wanna get banned.


Who is banned for rational discuss ? Show me !


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## Sasquatch

Kyle Sun said:


> Who is banned for rational discuss ? Show me !



He was banned for off topic posts/flamebait/racism/ and being a terrorist sympathizer

example: Chinese police shoot dead two Uighurs on Vietnam border

2 Chinese policemen shot at Uighurs trying to attack them with knives, his statement







Flamebait statements and lies,

example: Tibet's mineral water to be new regional growth pillar






Finally he said he would leave this section for good turned out to be another lie






I have no problem with him commenting or anyone or any turkish member with reasonable rational comments like ahiska, any other mod would have banned him for the irrational comments he made.

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## Kyle Sun

Hu Songshan said:


> He was banned for off topic posts/flamebait/racism/ and being a terrorist sympathizer
> 
> example: Chinese police shoot dead two Uighurs on Vietnam border
> 
> 2 Chinese policemen shot at Uighurs trying to attack them with knives, his statement
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Flamebait statements and lies,
> 
> example: Tibet's mineral water to be new regional growth pillar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Finally he said he would leave this section for good turned out to be another lie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem with him commenting or anyone with reasonable rational comments like ahiska, any other mod would have banned him for the irrational comments he made.


well done. Just ban him for ever.

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## -SINAN-

Hu Songshan said:


> He was banned for off topic posts/flamebait/racism/ and being a terrorist sympathizer
> 
> example: Chinese police shoot dead two Uighurs on Vietnam border
> 
> 2 Chinese policemen shot at Uighurs trying to attack them with knives, his statement


If one looks at the thread, he would see the whole thread is not about 2 Uyghurs...lot's of Uyghurs has been killed by Chinese attacks... Like "*6 Uyghurs*" shot dead while they were trying to explode a bomb.....
Chinese kill innocent Uyghurs and say that they kill terrorists.


Hu Songshan said:


> Flamebait statements and lies,
> 
> example: Tibet's mineral water to be new regional growth pillar


Tibet under occupation, it's riches are being.....everyone know the rest. 


Hu Songshan said:


> Finally he said he would leave this section for good turned out to be another lie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have no problem with him commenting or anyone with reasonable rational comments like ahiska, any other mod would have banned him for the irrational comments he made.


I didn't posted in section for months and I only posted to warn my countrymen. as i don't want them to get banned for no reason. Turkish posters got insulted, sweared at the sections that is being moderated by Chinese mod and get banned in return.

Or our threads got deleted for no reason.


> Note: In 29 June 2015 A thread ''China in battle against Islam in East Turkestan/Uyghur Turks'' was opened by me in China&Far East section in World Affairs. The thread was about Chinese ban on Islam and muslim Uygur Turks during Ramadan, for example ban on ramadan, fasting, praying, and festivals WHO can drink more beer during the ramadan.And the thread consisted of an un-related news with a link, some protest news along with some pictures, and my view of situation.
> 
> However, Today the thread along with posts was deleted without any notification. An answer is waited for in GHQ.
> 
> Hereby, We can see the Actual attitude of PDF to Islam, Muslim Uyghur Turk people. And I wanted to share it in here as an answer for those WHO speaks of Pakistan-Islam and Pakistan-Turkey brotherhood in PDF.
> 
> P.S.: I hope the mod will not Show the same attitude for this post of mine, if S/he does not want to be seen as such that is implied above.


https://defence.pk/threads/Çay-bahçesi.315137/page-764#post-7329105


We have the Uyghur issue thread in our section. The Uyghur issue

And every nationality is welcome to discuss the subject. No one needs to get afraid as our mod is quiet neutral and won't ban anyone because of his country flags.


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## Sasquatch

Sinan said:


> If one looks at the thread, he would see the whole thread is not about 2 Uyghurs...lot's of Uyghurs has been killed by Chinese attacks... Like "*6 Uyghurs*" shot dead while they were trying to explode a bomb.....
> Chinese kill innocent Uyghurs and say that they kill terrorists.


Your statement doesn't make any sense, they came at the police officers with Knives, heck they killed some Vietnamese border guards in the post all backed with evidence. Most Uighurs who are killed are terrorists can you refute that ? You're being a sympathizer to a terrorist attack now, you made comments saying the police should be fed to dogs defending themselves from a terror attack and a racial comment about Chinese.



Sinan said:


> Tibet under occupation, it's riches are being.....everyone know the rest.


No country in the world recognizes Tibet under occupation not even your own Turkey, its recognized by the United Nations as a part of China. 



Sinan said:


> I didn't posted in section for months and I only posted to warn my countrymen. as i don't want them to get banned for no reason. Turkish posters got insulted, sweared at the sections that is being moderated by Chinese mod and get banned in return.
> 
> Or our threads got deleted for no reason.
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/Çay-bahçesi.315137/page-764#post-7329105
> 
> 
> We have the Uyghur issue thread in our section. The Uyghur issue
> 
> And every nationality is welcome to discuss the subject. No one needs to get afraid as our mod is quiet neutral and won't ban anyone because of his country flags.



No you posted in a prior thread even before this after you made the statement. If a turkish poster got insulted reported it.

Your thread got deleted because it wasn't true China at war with Islam ? or Uighurs ? The Muslim population in China has grown tremendously 20 million and growing, benefits and protection. Restrictions on fasting only have been placed on Uighur government officials or students everyone else can. Only terrorists are getting killed.

Everyone is free to discuss here as long as its rational and reasonable like ahiska has. Don't like it don't comment

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## Ahiska

dlclong said:


> *The Uighurs from North Mongolia plateau.
> Han more than they first arrived in Xinjiang，In the Han Dynasty Han began management in Xinjiang..This is the fact that they arrived in Xinjiang after the Tang Dynasty.
> Han and Irani people Live in harmony in Xinjiang.
> But Uighurs ancestors came to Xinjiang rape of the natives, so today the appearance of Uighurs is half east Asian and half Indo -European people
> Proved that they were the invaders.*
> 
> It seems that the Turks believe, the Eurasian continent should be their "Turkic people". Other peoples occupied somewhere, whether early or later than Turks, does not belong to them, as long as the Turks have passed through, the place should belong to their Turkic people. Turks can slaughter, oppressed indigenous Tocharians, the people of Armenia, the Kurds, other ethnic groups,,.
> 
> 
> In fact, the Turks are not the same people,
> Is a number of different No detailed history people,Say some similar language.
> The word "Turkic" comes from the Han records.
> The Turks and the ancient Turkic people is far more diffrent. If the Turks in Greece announced that their ancestors is the old Turkic people, then said English Indian can also claim to be British.
> The modern Turks and ancient Turkic people is different. If modern Turks announced that their ancestors is old Turkic people,the Indian speak English can also claim they r British or New Zealand white.
> 
> *Incidentally, the ancient ancestors of the Uighurs do not think of themselves as Turks!
> The Turks r only colonialists and oppressors.
> We help them to defeat the turks.
> At the same time,The demise of the Eastern Turks,It was with their help was able to achieve !After the demise of Turkic Khanate,Uighur ancestors established the Uighur/Huihu Khanate.
> 
> Today some people's behavior is ridiculous。
> 
> If the Uighurs and the Turks are brothers, so English speaking Indians,south african and British people should also be brothers.
> 
> *


Mixing doesnt prove someone is an invader.......
Also Turkic people are nearer to each other because most have the same religion and can understand each other to some degree.
So it isnt a fantasy that Turks and Uyghurs see each others as brothers.
And at last Turkic empires always fought against each other (I think you Han will remember how many Civil wars you guys had) so it really doesnt matter that they at the time didnt consider themselves as Turks (just like the Avars/Khazars and Pecheneg who are still Turkic)


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## -SINAN-

Hu Songshan said:


> Your statement doesn't make any sense, they came at the police officers with Knives, heck they killed some Vietnamese border guards in the post all backed with evidence. Most Uighurs who are killed are terrorists can you refute that ?


My statement males sense for anyone who is unbiased. Did i said "glory for the knife warriors or something"....i said "RIP to *innocent* Uyghur".

If you look at the thread "China is using extreme means like* shooting and killing these people in order to intimidate* other Uighurs who wish to escape,” Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the World Uyghur Congress, told AFP news agency."

I'm saying again "RIP to the *innocent* Uyghur. If you had not been so biased against the Turks, you wouldn't make a big deal out of it.


Hu Songshan said:


> No country in the world recognizes Tibet under occupation not even your own turkey, its recognized by the United Nations as a part of China.


Well, United nations are a joke like institute serves no purpose. About Tibet being under occupation or not. Not everyone have to share your opinion.
Free Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tibetan independence movement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tibet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Hu Songshan said:


> No you posted in a prior thread even before this after you made the statement. If a turkish poster got insulted reported it.
> 
> Your thread got deleted because it wasn't true China at war with Islam ? or Uighurs ? The Muslim population in China has grown tremendously 20 million and growing, benefits and protection. Restrictions on fasting only have been placed on Uighur government officials or students everyone else can. Only terrorists are getting.
> 
> Everyone is free to discuss here as long as its rational and reasonable like ahiska has.



That thread is not mine but @Islamic faith&Secularism 's thread.

Anyways...it is obvious that there is no free speech in this section. We will continue in our section and everyone is welcome to join into discussion. I guarantee that you won't face the hardship we faced here.

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## damm1t

Hu Songshan said:


> Your thread got deleted because it wasn't true China at war with Islam ? or Uighurs ? The Muslim population in China has grown tremendously 20 million and growing, benefits and protection. Restrictions on fasting only have been placed on Uighur government officials or students everyone else can. Only terrorists are getting killed.



We are living in 21st century dude, news travels faster than light, we all know how china oppressive towards Uyghurs, how can you restrict officials or students btw? Who the hell you are telling people what they should do or not about belief all you should do is to respect it. But hell no, great china can decide when and how people should worship. When they do what their belief says then it gives you enough reason to label people "terrorists against regime", kill'em away... There is one thing will never change is that no economic growth or no military might will stop china to follow the civilized world from a couple of milleniums back.



Hu Songshan said:


> Everyone is free to discuss here as long as its rational and reasonable like ahiska has. Don't like it don't comment



So you decide who is rational and who is not? Not everybody will tell what you want to hear. This is just an example that chinese education system produces more people as just same mentality as their regime. I will keep telling truth like it or not, all you can do is to ban me here as you guys restricted fasting for students and officials..

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## huzihaidao12

damm1t said:


> We are living in 21st century dude, news travels faster than light, we all know how china oppressive towards Uyghurs, how can you restrict officials or students btw? Who the hell you are telling people what they should do or not about belief all you should do is to respect it. But hell no, great china can decide when and how people should worship. When they do what their belief says then it gives you enough reason to label people "terrorists against regime", kill'em away... There is one thing will never change is that no economic growth or no military might will stop china to follow the civilized world from a couple of milleniums back.
> 
> 
> 
> So you decide who is rational and who is not? Not everybody will tell what you want to hear. This is just an example that chinese education system produces more people as just same mentality as their regime. I will keep telling truth like it or not, all you can do is to ban me here as you guys restricted fasting for students and officials..


The civilized world has any thing to do with Turkey? Regardless of education or the economy,we have a far better record to treate thnic minorities than your Turkey when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.

Incidentally,any Forum has its own rules,it is not a good excuse to cover up your Turkey the hypocritical and ridiculous.Put your crocodile tears.To you,Uighurs just one available tool,you have no real knowledge and understanding for the Uighurs.In this forum,I confirm it.

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## damm1t

huzihaidao12 said:


> when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.





huzihaidao12 said:


> when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.





huzihaidao12 said:


> when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.





huzihaidao12 said:


> when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.





huzihaidao12 said:


> when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.





huzihaidao12 said:


> when you use gas to deal with the Kurds.

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## dlclong

Ahiska said:


> Mixing doesnt prove someone is an invader.......
> Also Turkic people are nearer to each other because most have the same religion and can understand each other to some degree.
> So it isnt a fantasy that Turks and Uyghurs see each others as brothers.
> And at last Turkic empires always fought against each other (I think you Han will remember how many Civil wars you guys had) so it really doesnt matter that they at the time didnt consider themselves as Turks (just like the Avars/Khazars and Pecheneg who are still Turkic)


*"Mixing doesnt prove someone is an invader.........."?
So,you support We mixing uighurs,Just like the Uighur mixing Tokharians? *
Then why do you "turkic" say we are the invaders?

You stand in the "Turks" side, have you stood in the Greek Kurdish Tocharian position issue?

Civil war? The Turks, civil war?
You as a modern Turkic people, not representative of the ancient Turks and the Uighurs to answer questions. Because you have inherited Turkic origin, not even higher than some of our local people.
The key is what kind of nation is Turkic people? The Turks are white or yellow, you make it clear then to discuss.
In your eyes, almost all of Eurasia nomads are Turks.

again,, according to your opinion, the South African Indian New Zealand people should be brother.。。。。


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## huzihaidao12

damm1t said:


>


Need I provide a connection for you?

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## damm1t

huzihaidao12 said:


> Need I provide a connection for you?



be my guess


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## huzihaidao12

damm1t said:


> be my guess


Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish PKK rebels: IHD

Blog: Is Turkey using poison gas on the Kurds?

Did Turkey Use Chemical Weapons? - Defense/Middle East - News - Arutz Sheva

Shocking Images of Dead Kurdish Fighters: Turkey Accused of Using Chemical Weapons against PKK - SPIEGEL ONLINE

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## punit

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> http://www.economist.com/news/china...will-not-bring-stability-xinjiang-tongue-tied
> 
> *Education in Xinjiang*
> *Tongue-tied*
> *Teaching Uighur children in Mandarin will not bring stability to Xinjiang*
> Jun 27th 2015 | SHUFU COUNTY, KASHGAR | From the print edition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I CAN speak Chinese, I’m so awesome!” reads a sign on the wall of the Mingde primary school in Shufu, a town near the oasis city of Kashgar in the far western province of Xinjiang. Nearby, children’s artworks hang beneath another banner which proclaims: “The motherland is in my heart.” Though every pupil at the school is Uighur, one of China’s ethnic minority peoples, most lessons here are taught in Mandarin—a very different language from their Turkic one. It is the same at ever more schools across the region. Educating young Uighurs in Mandarin may one day help them find work—but it is also a means by which the government hopes to subdue Xinjiang and its many inhabitants who chafe at rule from Beijing.
> 
> Xinjiang began to fall under China’s control in the mid-18th century. It was then mainly populated by ethnic Uighurs, whose culture and Muslim faith set them apart from much of the rest of China; Kashgar is far closer to Kabul and Islamabad than it is to Beijing. Despite the migration into Xinjiang of Hans, China’s ethnic majority, minorities (mainly Uighurs) still make up 60% of its residents, compared with less than 10% in China overall.
> 
> For decades the region has been racked by a low-level insurgency by Uighurs against growing Han influence. In 2009 around 200 people died in ethnic clashes in Urumqi, the region’s capital. Security has since been ramped up—the police and army are ever-present—but last July tensions flared again when an estimated 100 people were killed near Kashgar following attacks on government buildings. Violence has spread beyond Xinjiang’s borders too, into China’s interior. In 2013 five people were killed when a car driven by Uighurs ploughed into pedestrians in Beijing’s Tiananmen Square and burst into flames. Last year 31 people died in a knife attack by Uighurs in the south-western city of Kunming, an incident described by state media as the country’s “9/11”. Eighteen people were reportedly killed on June 22nd in an attack by Uighurs armed with knives and bombs on a checkpoint in Kashgar.
> 
> As well as bulldozing dissent, the government has tried pouring in cash to boost Xinjiang’s economy. Yet Hans have disproportionately benefited from the resulting boom; minorities’ feelings of alienation and inequality have worsened. Hans and non-Hans in Xinjiang are growing further apart—some Hans are nervous about entering Uighur districts; Uighurs complain of harassment by the police. Officials are beginning to recognise that there is a social problem, as well as a security-related one. There is a renewed focus on breaking down ethnic barriers and promoting a shared national identity.
> 
> Mandarin-teaching for Uighurs is seen as a tool to achieve these goals. Since 2011 officials in the region have been promoting what they call “bilingual education”. By this they mean that most instruction is to be in Mandarin. Ever more schools are moving towards using Chinese only, with the exception of a few hours of classes each week in Uighur literature. President Xi Jinping emphasises this policy as a way to fight terrorism. Last year he described better education as “essential” to the region’s long-term stability. Schools such as Mingde, with its troops of Uighur children wearing the red ties of the Young Pioneers, a junior branch of the Communist Party, embody the government’s great hope.
> 
> The government’s desire to boost Mandarin-speaking ability is reasonable: few Uighurs speak fluent, or even passable, Chinese. Mastering the language should open up opportunities for Uighur children and improve their job prospects (in 2010, 83% of all Uighurs were farmers). Bringing Han and Uighur children into the same classroom, as some urban schools are at last trying to do, should help too.
> 
> But the authorities risk arousing complaints that Uighur culture is being marginalised. Even before Xinjiang’s ethnic troubles intensified in 2009, schools conformed to Han norms. Recently bans have been made stricter on the observance of fasting rituals during the month of Ramadan. Few Han children in Xinjiang are taught minority languages.
> 
> Our culture, not yours
> 
> The Xinjiang curriculum is about learning to be Chinese. Schools prize “patriotic education” even more than others in China. At Mingde the Chinese flag hangs at the front of each classroom between laminated photos of the late leaders Mao Zedong and Deng Xiaoping. A kindergarten in Kasghar features a wall poster declaring: “I am Chinese. Beijing is my country’s capital, I love China. I love the motherland, I love the Great Wall. I love my father, mother, teacher, classmates, but most of all I love my motherland.”
> 
> Around two-thirds of minority children now receive Mandarin-language instruction. But educational quality is suffering. Not enough Uighurs speak sufficient Mandarin to teach in it; those who do want better-paid jobs than teaching. It is hard to attract Han teachers to a poor, volatile region. The government is pumping money into the recruitment effort, but it says Xinjiang still needs 30,000 more teachers who can speak both Mandarin and a local language. Uighur-speaking parents can rarely help their children with school work and many pupils have no chance to practise the Mandarin they acquire. Even in a model school like Mingde, staff admit that children speak only Uighur outside class. Many six-year-olds cannot understand basic questions in Chinese. Other skills suffer, too: children typically learn English via Mandarin, for example, even though English and Uighur—unlike Chinese—both use alphabetical scripts.
> 
> Some older Uighurs view such instruction as an erosion of their culture. Reza Hasmath of Oxford University says they may therefore either fail to support their children’s education or actively resist it (some send their children to illegal religious schools). Despite this—and unlike in Tibet—there have been few reports of public protests against Mandarin-medium teaching. This is probably because other issues, such as the banning of Muslim veils, have raised more hackles, and possibly because some incidents go unreported.
> 
> In other parts of China, such as Hong Kong and Shanghai, where Mandarin is not the native tongue, learning the national language does indeed open doors. But in Xinjiang even many Uighurs who speak fluent Mandarin find it hard to get ahead, partly because of racial prejudice. Highly educated Uighurs tend to earn less than their Han equivalents, says Mr Hasmath. Attempts by the Chinese government to promote knowledge of Mandarin and Chinese culture in Xinjiang may generate more problems than they solve.


LOL U TEACH urdu to all ethnicities !


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## damm1t

huzihaidao12 said:


> Turkey used chemical weapons against Kurdish PKK rebels: IHD
> 
> Blog: Is Turkey using poison gas on the Kurds?



Man you are amazing.. I wish I knew you before but I think a lilbit retarded no offence 
That's all you have found? One jewish blog and E-Kurd kurdish website? 

Now I could provide you dozens of article, news, links about chinese oppression against Uyghurs from more reliable sources but no need, you already will call it false western news etc and will not waste my time for obvious things.

Now Kurds are being represented by the 60 from Kurdish party in the Parliament. They have more rights than anyone else if not equal. We had Kurdish president, high-ranked generals and officials, diplomats etc. We talk againg when you reach that level of democracy and an advice for you... don't talk about things that you have no clue..

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## huzihaidao12

damm1t said:


> Man you are amazing.. I wish I knew you before but I think a lilbit retarded no offence
> That's all you have found? One jewish blog and E-Kurd kurdish website?
> 
> Now I could provide you dozens of article, news, links about chinese oppression against Uyghurs from more reliable sources but no need, you already will call it false western news etc and will not waste my time for obvious things.
> 
> Now Kurds are being represented by the 60 from Kurdish party in the Parliament. They have more rights than anyone else if not equal. We had Kurdish president, high-ranked generals and officials, diplomats etc. We talk againg when you reach that level of democracy and an advice for you... don't talk about things that you have no clue..


Well, if there is no misunderstanding, you mean you don't believe in any Western media about China oppression Uygur, right? Although,your change is faster , but I still have to say,it was a good place to start.

1, like a previous post, the Kurds can be educated in their ownlanguage for the first,like the Uighurs learn their own language first, then to learn Mandarin?

2, the Kurds can get the privileges of education,such as a huge plus in the higher test, like China?

3,poor Kurdish people get lots offinancial subsidies, like the Chinese Government to offer the Uighurs?

Can you answer these questions above , please?

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## damm1t

huzihaidao12 said:


> 1, like a previous post, the Kurds can be educated in their ownlanguage for the first,like the Uighurs learn their own language first and to learn Mandarin?
> 
> 2, the Kurds can get the privileges of education,such as a huge plus in the highertest,like China?
> 
> 3,poor Kurdish people get lots offinancial subsidies, like the Chinese Government to offer the Uighurs?
> 
> Can you answer these three questions, please?



1- They learn Kurdish ofcourse from family, in state schools lessons are taught Turkish since its the official language. Last year some schools are opened with whole Kurdish education, also there are university departments are opened which anybody can learn Kurdish. 

2- Education right is equal for any citizen of Turkey be it Laz, Kurd, Türk or any other minorities.. That's how it should be. Because every citizen in Turkey have EQUAL rights. 

3- More than you can imagine...

As you see china is from stone age when it comes to minority rights. I could ask plenty of questions to you which I already know the answers. But take this simple one.

Can any Uyghur fast in Ramadan?

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## chhota bheem

damm1t said:


> 1- They learn Kurdish ofcourse from family, in state schools lessons are taught Turkish since its the official language. Last year some schools are opened with whole Kurdish education, also there are university departments are opened which anybody can learn Kurdish.
> 
> 2- Education right is equal for any citizen of Turkey be it Laz, Kurd, Türk or any other minorities.. That's how it should be. Because every citizen in Turkey have EQUAL rights.
> 
> 3- More than you can imagine...
> 
> As you see china is from stone age when it comes to minority rights. I could ask plenty of questions to you which I already know the answers. But take this simple one.
> 
> Can any Uyghur fast in Ramadan?


Dont waste you time bro,they are all progammed to repeat the same thing again and again.

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## Ahiska

dlclong said:


> *"Mixing doesnt prove someone is an invader.........."?
> So,you support We mixing uighurs,Just like the Uighur mixing Tokharians? *
> Then why do you "turkic" say we are the invaders?
> 
> You stand in the "Turks" side, have you stood in the Greek Kurdish Tocharian position issue?
> 
> Civil war? The Turks, civil war?
> You as a modern Turkic people, not representative of the ancient Turks and the Uighurs to answer questions. Because you have inherited Turkic origin, not even higher than some of our local people.
> The key is what kind of nation is Turkic people? The Turks are white or yellow, you make it clear then to discuss.
> In your eyes, almost all of Eurasia nomads are Turks.
> 
> again,, according to your opinion, the South African Indian New Zealand people should be brother.。。。。


Everyone who speaks a Turkic language and identifies as a Turkic is Turkic.
The Turkic people were always a mix between Caucasoid and Mongoloid.
There is not a single proof that shows that Turkics were genetically the same as for example Mongolians(who are neihbours and also steppe people)


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## jkroo

So our brothers and sisters could got more jobs, it's good. Actually, the north of Xinjiang is more developed than south. I expect more projects can be built in the south. The development of infrastructures of south Xinjiang will also contribute to CPEC.

Come on, our fellow countrymen, you face the opportunity and you should grasp it and bent down and work hard now!

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## huzihaidao12

damm1t said:


> 1- They learn Kurdish ofcourse from family, in state schools lessons are taught Turkish since its the official language. Last year some schools are opened with whole Kurdish education, also there are university departments are opened which anybody can learn Kurdish.
> 
> 2- Education right is equal for any citizen of Turkey be it Laz, Kurd, Türk or any other minorities.. That's how it should be. Because every citizen in Turkey have EQUAL rights.
> 
> 3- More than you can imagine...
> 
> As you see china is from stone age when it comes to minority rights. I could ask plenty of questions to you which I already know the answers. But take this simple one.
> 
> Can any Uyghur fast in Ramadan?



When you say that the stone age,at least you need more advanced than they, otherwise, you just proved yourTurkey was far more conservative than the stone age, right?

1,if it's not a lie, please explain what content from the connection. BTW, Uighurs have to learn their own language in the basic curriculum,rather than any specific course, since 1949.

Turkey rules out education in Kurdish at schools - People's Daily Online

Politics strain Turkey's first Kurdish-language institute - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East#

2,Then,China's education system is more advantageous to minorities,because we provide special resources for ethnic minorities,including the Uighurs.Your so-calledequality in nameonly, in fact,because the minority disadvantage is usually at a disadvantage,if it does not have a preferential measures.

3, can you be more detailed,or do you give a few examples?



damm1t said:


> Can any Uyghur fast in Ramadan?


Answer your question,any Uighurs to participate in religious activities,only a few people in certain religious activities are restricted,if he were party members,civil servants,as well as 16 years of age.

It conforms to China's national conditions , and it is a good measure to prevent externalrisks. In today's society,as far as I know,even in some Muslim countries,they also have some limitations, there is no absolute freedom.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

damm1t said:


> We are living in 21st century dude, news travels faster than light, we all know how china oppressive towards Uyghurs, how can you restrict officials or students btw? Who the hell you are telling people what they should do or not about belief all you should do is to respect it. But hell no, great china can decide when and how people should worship. When they do what their belief says then it gives you enough reason to label people "terrorists against regime", kill'em away... There is one thing will never change is that no economic growth or no military might will stop china to follow the civilized world from a couple of milleniums back.
> 
> 
> 
> So you decide who is rational and who is not? Not everybody will tell what you want to hear. This is just an example that chinese education system produces more people as just same mentality as their regime. I will keep telling truth like it or not, all you can do is to ban me here as you guys restricted fasting for students and officials..



Indeed we are in the 21st century. 

Read up a little on Chinese History from say, 1840 - 1949 and see why China will not let ANY people fcuk around inside CHINESE territory. Never again.

Give an inch and the barbarians will take a mile. You dont like the rule in China? Too bad. Wolves howling at a dragon.

Your audacity to lecture China on being civilized only reveals your ignorance and foolish dumb arsery. Do you expect Ughyurs who break the law in China be subject to Turkish law and kebab protocols?

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## xenon54 out

IR-TR said:


> As a side course. I know, and after a million years, it just started. Meanwhile in China, all children learn and have always learned Uyghur. At such a rate even, that they could hardly speak Mandarin. Now, show me one Turkish Kurd who can't speak basic Turkish, because their region mainly teaches the Kurdish language in schools. In any case, teaching the national language is a must in any country, regardless of the culture or race of it's inhabitants. Secondary languages must be secondary.


I said nothing about China, just replied to your post that makes appear as if Kurdish was forbidden.
Interesting change in your attitude in contrary to ME section btw...

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## Azizam

Sinan said:


> Yeah you are such a badass.... by being cruel to women and children...


1st picture is from an earthquake or an accident (?), second picture is not from China and third picture, I don't know. Stop posting fake pictures. I have seen 1st picture used in many places, especially about some "Rohingya genocide".

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## IR-TR

xenon54 said:


> I said nothing about China, just replied to your post that makes appear as if Kurdish was forbidden.
> Interesting change in your attitude in contrary to ME section btw...



No, I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy. If it was up to me, those mountain people couldn't speak any other language than Turkish. But then the same should go for the Uyghurs. That being said, it's nonsense, and all peoples should have a single class devoted to their mother tongue, and the rest of the courses in the national language. The Uyghurs have been learning Uyghur a lot longer than those mountain gypsies have been learning their language. That's all. It's not about what I'd like, it's about the facts.


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## Tom99

> The European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance (ECRI) reports that (as of April 2010): "The public use by officials of the Kurdish language lays them open to prosecution, and public defence by individuals of Kurdish or minority interests also frequently leads to prosecutions under the Criminal Code."[43] From the 1994 briefing at the International Human Rights Law Group: "the problem in Turkey is the Constitution is against the Kurds and the apartheid constitution is very similar to it."[44]
> 
> In 1998 Leyla Zana received a jail sentence.[45] This prompted one member of the U.S. House of Representative, Elizabeth Furse, to accuse Turkey of being a racist state and continuing to deny the Kurds a voice in the state". Abbas Manafy from New Mexico Highlands University claims "The Kurdish deprivation of their own culture, language, and tradition is incompatible with democratic norms. It reflects an apartheid system that victimizes minorities like Armenians, Kurds, and Shii Muslems [Shiite Muslims]."



Turkey need to handle its own problem first before high-horsing China.

China can handle its own problem without any inputs from Turkey.

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## bsruzm

IR-TR said:


> Your 'Khagan' is long dead and gone. Live in the present.


''Turkey's Foreign Ministry said it has expressed "deep concern" to China about reports that the country has instilled a fasting ban on segments of its Uighur Muslim population during the holy Muslim month of Ramadan.
In a statement released Tuesday the ministry said that it had informed the Chinese ambassador to Ankara of its worries.
Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu later told reporters that Turkey closely followed the Uighur issue.
"They are important to us, we declare our connection with them in every occasion.'' he said.''
*Khagan is neither dead nor gone and still lives in the present.*

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## Tom99

bsruzm said:


> ''Turkey's Foreign Ministry said it has expressed "deep concern" to China about reports that the country has instilled a fasting ban on segments of its Uighur Muslim population during the holy Muslim month of Ramadan.
> In a statement released Tuesday the ministry said that it had informed the Chinese ambassador to Ankara of its worries.
> Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu later told reporters that Turkey closely followed the Uighur issue.
> "They are important to us, we declare our connection with them in every occasion.'' he said.''
> *Khagan is neither dead nor gone and still lives in the present.*



Unlike Turkey, China considers all human beings and citizens of China are important to China; not just Uyghurs. Uyghurs, as one of the 56 ethnic groups within China lives with the same laws as all other chinese citizens.

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## IR-TR

bsruzm said:


> ''Turkey's Foreign Ministry said it has expressed "deep concern" to China about reports that the country has instilled a fasting ban on segments of its Uighur Muslim population during the holy Muslim month of Ramadan.
> In a statement released Tuesday the ministry said that it had informed the Chinese ambassador to Ankara of its worries.
> Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu later told reporters that Turkey closely followed the Uighur issue.
> "They are important to us, we declare our connection with them in every *occasion*.'' he said.''
> *Khagan is neither dead nor gone and still lives in the present.*



Every 'okazyon' (Fatih Terim)

Tamam, yallah git orduyu gonder bakalim. Ayni zamanda Kurtler guney siniri kontrol altina aldilar. Sen git Uygurlara agla.


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## damm1t

IR-TR said:


> Every 'okazyon' (Fatih Terim)
> 
> Tamam, yallah git orduyu gonder bakalim. Ayni zamanda Kurtler guney siniri kontrol altina aldilar. Sen git Uygurlara agla.



Every issue has its very own importance, do not worry we can protest chinese oppression against Uyghurs and deal with cavemen at the same time one hand in the pocket.


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## IR-TR

damm1t said:


> Every issue has its very own importance, do not worry we can protest chinese oppression against Uyghurs and deal with cavemen at the same time one hand in the pocket.



Hmm. As of today, it seems WE aren't dealing with either one. I'm not even going to ask how you'd deal with the Uyghurs, so let's let it be.


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## damm1t

IR-TR said:


> Hmm. As of today, it seems WE aren't dealing with either one. I'm not even going to ask how you'd deal with the Uyghurs, so let's let it be.



Cavemen refers to PKK/PYD/ISIS or equal bastard org.


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## BigDaddyWatch

damm1t said:


> Can any Uyghur fast in Ramadan?


If they are over 16 and not a government official then yes.

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## IR-TR

BigDaddyWatch said:


> If they are over 16 and not a government official then yes.



Seems reasonable to me. Over 16, most Muslims in the West of in their countries of origin start at around 14-15. So 16 is fine. And government officials, it's officially an atheist nation, so cool, everybody gets treated the same.


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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> Seems reasonable to me. Over 16, most Muslims in the West of in their countries of origin start at around 14-15. So 16 is fine. And government officials, it's officially an atheist nation, so cool, everybody gets treated the same.


Everywhere in the world government officials can fast and still work.
I dont see why China needs to be so buthurt about it.


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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> Everywhere in the world government officials can fast and still work.
> I dont see why China needs to be so buthurt about it.



In 50 years, they'll allow it. China has bigger fish to fry, and giving the Uyghurs every single thing they want, while they are less than 1% of the Chinese population, isn't on the top of the list. China has 2 priorities right now: boom economically and boost security. Later on they will become democratic, but it'll take decades.

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## Ahiska

IR-TR said:


> In 50 years, they'll allow it. China has bigger fish to fry, and giving the Uyghurs every single thing they want, while they are less than 1% of the Chinese population, isn't on the top of the list. China has 2 priorities right now: boom economically and boost security. Later on they will become democratic, but it'll take decades.


But like i said every country has no problems with fasting and working for the state.
This decision makes no sense except trying to control the religious life of government officials.


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## BigDaddyWatch

Ahiska said:


> Everywhere in the world government officials can fast and still work.
> I dont see why China needs to be so buthurt about it.


When they are government officials it means that they are members of the Communist Party. And the loyalty to the party must come before their religion. If they are not government officials or party members they are allowed to fast. Unless they are children's under 16 then its for health reasons.

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## 70U63

Same principle applied...
Their country, their system. I don't see why outsiders need to be butthurt about it.



Ahiska said:


> Everywhere in the world government officials can fast and still work.
> I dont see why China needs to be so buthurt about it.

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## IR-TR

Ahiska said:


> But like i said every country has no problems with fasting and working for the state.
> This decision makes no sense except trying to control the religious life of government officials.



Please tell me, how many Communist die hard atheist governments are there in the world? North Korea and Cuba? Neither has even 1 muslim in them. Don't make false comparisons with secular Western nations.


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## cirr

*Expanded train routes to bring 100,000 more tourists to Xinjiang*

English.news.cn 2015-06-17 21:52:43


URUMQI, June 17 (Xinhua) -- *A total of 100 railway lines will link Xinjiang to the rest of China this year*, which is expected to bring 100,000 more visitors to the autonomous region, local tourism authorities and China Railway Group jointly announced on Wednesday.

So far there are 23 rail lines connecting Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region with 16 major cities in China, such as Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou. China Railway Group said it will increase such lines to 100 as the country promotes silk road-themed travel this year.

More than 7.2 million domestic tourists visited Xinjiang during the first quarter of this year, up 9.29 percent from the same period a year ago, according to official data.

The autonomous region saw 49.5 million tourists last year, a 4.9 percent decline due to a string of terrorist attacks in the same period.

Expanded train routes to bring 100,000 more tourists to Xinjiang - Xinhua | English.news.cn

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## TaiShang

When it comes to the beautiful Xinjiang landscape, even a simple camera can produce the most beautiful photographs.

Xinjiang, the largest province in China and located in the country’s far northwest, boasts one of the most diverse landscapes: from one of the world’s largest deserts to one of the world’s largest mountain ranges.

The result is that the term “Xinjiang landscape” can mean so many different things. Take a look at the photos below for great examples.





The Taklamakan Desert is the 2nd largest desert in the whole world and takes up almost 1/3 of the entire Xinjiang province.





The famous Hemu village is located near the Kanas Lake in Altay, Xinjiang. It’s one of the most popular places for professional photographers in the region, especially during the fall months when the leaves turn various colors.





The Keketuohai National Park is one of the most beautiful and least-recognized parks in China. Many compare it to Yosemite in the US.





Sometimes referred to as “Xinjiang’s Grand Canyon”, this incredible place is located near Aksu.





Beautiful apricot blossoms year Yili, Xinjiang spring up every year and provide incredible photos.

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## cirr

Quite a few railways reaching Xinjiang from Inner Mongolia and Qinghai Province are under construction。When these are completed in short ears，Xinjiang will be even more of a destination for investment、commerce、trade、industry，and of course， tourism。

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## B+ Dracula

All pictures you shared above...are really mind blowing....
So much natural beauty...lush green pastures

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## TaiShang

B+ Dracula said:


> All pictures you shared above...are really mind blowing....
> So much natural beauty...lush green pastures



Lakes of Xinjiang:

*Sayram Lake (赛里木湖)*




About an hour northeast of Yili you’ll find the beautiful *Sayram Lake* – the largest and highest alpine lake in Xinjiang. Given its proximity to Kazakhstan, you’re bound to run into quite a few Kazakh men riding their horses or trying to get you to stay in their yurt for a night.

*Heavenly Lake (新疆天池)*




The beautiful *Heavenly Lake* has become the “go to” place to visit from the capital of Urumqi. It’s become somewhat touristy over the past few years but the views are still amazing. If you have an extra day in Urumqi, it’s not a bad idea to make a quick visit to Heavenly Lake.

*Karakul Lake (喀拉库勒湖)*




Along the Karakoram Highway between Kashgar and Tashkorgan you’ll run into the pristine *Karakul Lake*. It’s not a particularly large lake, but it is picturesque, especially with the majestic Muztaghata mountain in the background.

*Kanas Lake (喀纳斯湖)*




Although technically a river, *Kanas* has been called a lake for so long that it’s not worth trying to reclassify it. The view you see here is probably one of the most famous in all of Xinjiang. It doesn’t matter what season of the year, this bend in the river is a small piece of heaven on earth in northern Xinjiang.

*Swan Lake (巴音布拉克湖 ／ 天鹅湖)*




*Swan Lake* is actually a wetland swamp comprised of many small lakes, made famous by the numerous swans who call it home during the summer. Although it’s great to see the swans, the streams snaking through the grassland have become the trademark scenery here.

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## B+ Dracula

God given beauty are un-matched......How much we construct high rise Buildings, Skyscrapers ....._*what you say on this
.*_
You're giving me deadly blows..... If i not come to visit these Masterpieces.....I probably will die ...Mercy please


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## cirr

B+ Dracula said:


> All pictures you shared above...are really mind blowing....
> So much natural beauty...lush green pastures



Come to visit us by rail or road or air when the CPEC is open for business。

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## TaiShang

B+ Dracula said:


> God given beauty are un-matched......How much we construct Buildings, Skyscrapers .....what you say on this
> .
> You're giving me deadly blows..... If i not come to visit these Masterpieces.....I probably will die ...Mercy please



Hopefully you will have a chance to see at least some of these majestic mountains, bro: 

Multiple mountain ranges cut through or border Xinjiang including the TianShan, Kunlun and Pamir among others.

*TianShan Range (新疆天山)*




When flying in and out of Urumqi, it’s the *TianShan range* that you’ll see out your window. The Tian Shan, which slices through the middle of Xinjiang, was named to UNESCO’s World Heritage List in 2013.

*Pamir Mountains (帕米尔)*




The *Pamir Mountains,* located on the western edge of Xinjiang near the city of Kashgar, are a stunning backdrop to places like Tashkorgan’s Stone Fort, which you see above.

*Karakoram Mountains (喀喇昆仑山脉)*




For anybody who has traveled along the famous Karakoram Highway, you know just how incredible the *Karakoram Mountains* are. The Karakoram range is home to K2, the second highest peak in the world and it also has the highest concentration of 8,000m+ peaks in the world.

*Kunlun Mountains (昆仑山)*




The *Kunlun Mountains* are the range that runs the border between Xinjiang and Tibet. You’re likely to see this range if you ever have the chance to travel the *Tibet-Xinjiang highway, the highest paved road in the world.*

*Flaming Mountains (火焰山)*




Barely high enough to be classified a “hill”, *Turpan’s Flaming Mountains* are still impressive none-the-less for their unique display of color and design. If you’re brave enough, you can even participate in a half-marathon race across the Flaming Mountains.

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## AndrewJin

I've been to Northern Xinjiang, *Kanas* is the place I will pay a second visit during autumn.









I went there in April, less charming than autumn, but still, one of the most beautiful places I have ever been to.
*Kanas in April, 2013*

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## aks18

cirr said:


> Come to visit us by rail or road or air when the CPEC is open for business。




its very easy and travel to china by road from pakistan i have plan to visit these places by road

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## TaiShang

AndrewJin said:


> I've been to Northern Xinjiang, *Kanas* is the place I will pay a second visit during autumn.
> View attachment 234091
> View attachment 234090
> 
> 
> I went there in April, less charming than autumn, but still, one of the most beautiful places I have ever been to.
> *Kanas in April, 2013*
> View attachment 234094
> View attachment 234095
> View attachment 234096
> View attachment 234098
> View attachment 234101



Looks pristine and wild. 

At the first opportunity, I wish to visit, either. But first, XiZhang (Tibet).

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## 55100864

AndrewJin said:


> I've been to Northern Xinjiang, *Kanas* is the place I will pay a second visit during autumn.
> View attachment 234091
> 
> 
> I went there in April, less charming than autumn, but still, one of the most beautiful places I have ever been to.
> View attachment 234094
> View attachment 234095
> View attachment 234096
> View attachment 234098
> View attachment 234101


Share some picture of the Kanas Monster!
Kanas Lake Monsters | Wondermondo

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> Looks pristine and wild.
> 
> At the first opportunity, I wish to visit, either. But first, XiZhang (Tibet).


Take a train from Beijing/Shanghai/Xi'an/Lanzhou/Xining to Lhasa!
Don't forget take a train from Lhasa to Shigatse, but when coming back to Lhasa from Shigatse, rent a car to the scared lake of 羊卓雍错 & glacier of 卡若拉。

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## B+ Dracula

TaiShang said:


> Hopefully you will have a chance to see at least some of these majestic mountains, bro:
> 
> Multiple mountain ranges cut through or border Xinjiang including the TianShan, Kunlun and Pamir among others.
> 
> *TianShan Range (新疆天山)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When flying in and out of Urumqi, it’s the *TianShan range* that you’ll see out your window. The Tian Shan, which slices through the middle of Xinjiang, was named to UNESCO’s World Heritage List in 2013.
> 
> *Pamir Mountains (帕米尔)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Pamir Mountains,* located on the western edge of Xinjiang near the city of Kashgar, are a stunning backdrop to places like Tashkorgan’s Stone Fort, which you see above.
> 
> *Karakoram Mountains (喀喇昆仑山脉)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For anybody who has traveled along the famous Karakoram Highway, you know just how incredible the *Karakoram Mountains* are. The Karakoram range is home to K2, the second highest peak in the world and it also has the highest concentration of 8,000m+ peaks in the world.
> 
> *Kunlun Mountains (昆仑山)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The *Kunlun Mountains* are the range that runs the border between Xinjiang and Tibet. You’re likely to see this range if you ever have the chance to travel the *Tibet-Xinjiang highway, the highest paved road in the world.*
> 
> *Flaming Mountains (火焰山)*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Barely high enough to be classified a “hill”, *Turpan’s Flaming Mountains* are still impressive none-the-less for their unique display of color and design. If you’re brave enough, you can even participate in a half-marathon race across the Flaming Mountains.


Iam hiker, I done most of Hiking in Islamabad trails (visited other areas too).....I do it for fun with NO intention to take that skill to Professional level.......I know how much iam attracted towards those Master God Creation.....Mountains are PEG of the World....I always get attracted towards it....keep it on

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## AndrewJin

55100864 said:


> Share some picture of the Kanas Monster!
> Kanas Lake Monsters | Wondermondo


I guess they were hiding under the ice when I visited them!






Xinjiang is very diverse, there are more than ten ethnic groups living in different prefectures of Xinjiang.

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## aks18

i am planning this trip for 2016 you guys making me double mind now 

most interesting thing is Bus fare is just 30 dollars to go china on bus  from sost dry port

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## AndrewJin

aks18 said:


> i am planning this trip for 2016 you guys making me double mind now


Bro, why not have a journey along Silk Road from the ancient capital of Xi'an where u can try a variety of Muslin food in the Muslin quarter, and then take a train to Xining where u can ride around Qinghai Lake, take the newly built HSR through Hexi Corridor, stop in Dunhuang for the World UNESCO heritage site Mogao Cave, at last enjoy the mighty snowy in mountains and Kanas Natural Reserve in Northern Xinjiang!
My Adventures Across China | Page 13

*Dunhuang, Silk Road*

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## aks18

AndrewJin said:


> Bro, why not have a journey along Silk Road from the ancient capital of Xi'an where u can try a variety of Muslin food in the Muslin quarter, and then take a train to Xining where u can ride around Qinghai Lake, take the newly built HSR through Hexi Corridor, stop in Dunhuang for the World UNESCO heritage site Mogao Cave, at last enjoy the mighty snowy in mountains and Kanas Natural Reserve in Northern Xinjiang!
> My Adventures Across China | Page 13
> 
> Dunhuang, Silk Road
> View attachment 234126
> View attachment 234125
> View attachment 234127




i have traveled till Pak china border khunjrab pass on Karakoram Highway .. it will be real fun to visit china by bus and then take on to railways and other transport service to see rest of places  now i am working on this plan with more dedication now 

before i was planning till Urumqi city then to take railway to visit rest of china kindly if any one here could give a brief plan of visiting china by road from pakistan side it will be highly appreciated

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## TaiShang

*Surviving Turpan’s 29km Death Race*
October 8, 2014 | 

On September 21st, 2014, three hundred runners gathered in Turpan, Xinjiang to take part in the Sixth Annual International Cross Country Desert Challenge. Stretching up to 29 kilometers, the race took participants through Turpan’s Flaming Mountains, a series of fiery colored hills with rugged terrain, sharp rocks, deep caverns, and wide stretches of desert.






On the morning of the race, all the runners woke up early at 5:30 local time for a final chance to load up on carbohydrates before the race. Upon entering the dining hall, a local I had met the day before said to me while juggling a couple full plates of food, “Duo chi yi dian” or eat a lot of food.

That was the mindset of all the runners as the hotel staff struggled with cooking food faster than the rate it was being consumed. When everyone had their fill, we all boarded the bus to head to the starting line.





When we arrived outside the Flaming Mountains, the area was already buzzing with energy. Runners were warming themselves up and reporters on the scene were busy trying to get a few interviews in before the beginning of the race. There was a cold wind, but the summer heat was bound to kick in as the morning drew on.

Reporters on the scene were busy trying to get a few interviews in…

A brief ceremony to commemorate the event was held where all the participants were grouped into each other’s respective country with their nation’s flags waving to represent them. The atmosphere was full of determination on part of the athletes and as I awaited the start, I began to feel the adrenaline kick in.

After the sound of the starter pistol, I made my way toward the race’s first and most intimidating obstacle, running up one of the many Flaming Mountains. At the mountain’s slope, the hike before me appeared steep and in many places appeared dangerous. One misstep could easily leave a person falling into the deep caverns alongside the trail.





As all of us Westerners were of mixed athletic abilities, the race forced us to break away from our cultural comfort zones and work together with runners of separate nationalities to press on. As I fell into the back of the pack, I was surprised to find that most of the runners I was running alongside with were not Chinese, but Central Asian. *Moreover, we all interestingly used Chinese instead of English to communicate with one another.*

Feeling curious about the Central Asians in the race, I asked a number of them what exactly brought them to Xinjiang. While taking a quick breather after reaching the summit of the mountain, I met Zarina, an ethnically Russian young woman from Uzbekistan. Having previously worked in Moscow with many Chinese, she came to Xinjiang to learn Mandarin for her job. For a good while, she talked to me about her positive impression of China and how she studies Chinese eight hours a day to make the progress necessary for her job in Moscow.





At one point, Zarina grew tired and wanted to walk, so I pressed on ahead leaving her behind. When I encountered another runner moments later, I greeted him and immediately took him as Chinese due to his strong fluency in Mandarin. Surprisingly, he was from Tajikistan and was also here in China to study Mandarin. *He told me, “In Tajikistan, if you have strong abilities in Chinese, you can earn a lot of money.” *He said his ambition is to become a translator.





Eventually,I fell behind my new Tajik friend before I could get his name. At several points, I saw him alongside the mountainside. But being a race, I am sure he had no intention to wait for me. The trail continued to curve alongside the many cliffs and caverns and it eventually led me to a deep ravine that I had to cross. Going down was easy but emerging from the ravine was strenuous.

Once I reached the top I took a seat next to another pair of Tajiks, a man and a woman, who were just as exhausted as I was. The man, whose name was Akbar, said he too was also in Xinjiang studying Chinese. When I asked him about his dream, he said, “I want to go into the mineral business with China.”

*Hearing from all these Central Asian students with ambitions related to China surprised me very little. In recent years, China has poured tremendous amounts of money into Central Asia making it the region’s largest foreign investor. China is booming with opportunity and from what I gathered from the race, Central Asians are flooding to it in excitement.*

After chatting for five minutes, Akbar decided to run after his racing partner who ran off after he and I started talking. While watching Akbar move further away into the distance, Zarina caught up with me along with two Chinese men from Urumqi and a foreign Kazakh student who studies at Xinjiang Normal University.





Two hours after the race began, we reached the 10K marker. Feeling that I would not make it to the 15K marker, I took this as my crown achievement of the race. We took a few victory photos together and then continued on the path leading us out of the Flaming Mountains and into the Gobi Desert. Thirty minutes later, a jeep stopped to pick us up informing us that the three hours allotted for the race had expired.

For one weekend, everyones paths, local and international, converged in Turpan

Following the race, the participants were all taken to Grape Valley for the closing ceremony. Nice words were said, trophies were given, and toasts were made with new friends. All of us Westerners ended up performing quite well. The French woman, Mimi, took second in the women’s division and four of us in total ran the entire 29 kilometers within the time limit.

When the ceremony concluded, I exchanged phone numbers with a local professional athlete from Urumqi. Hoping to meet again either in Urumqi or even in America, he said to me, “Duo yi ge pengyou, duo yi tiao lu.” A new friend leads to a new road.

In my mind, this was the big theme of the race. For one weekend, everyone’s paths from both local and international converged in Turpan. During the height of the Silk Road, many paths from all over Asia converged through Xinjiang where goods and ideas were traded. Based off the large turnout of participants from all over Central Asia in the race, it looks like Xinjiang is once again regaining its former international prestige.

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## EagleEyes

Don't engage in posting graphic photos or videos. It will cause immediate permanent ban.


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## Devil Soul

*Chinese army for bringing 'modern civilisation' to Xinjiang*
REUTERS 
BEIJING: China’s military must bring “modern civilization” to the restive southern areas of the Xinjiang region, where Muslim ethnic Uighurs are in majority, and help develop its economy, two senior army officers wrote in an influential journal.

Hundreds have died in violence in Xinjiang in the past few years. The government blames the unrest on Islamist militants and separatists who want to establish an independent state called East Turkestan.

Writing in the latest edition of the bimonthly Communist Party magazine Qiushi, the commander of the southern Xinjiang military region Li Haiyang and its military commissar Miao Wenjiang said that soldiers must “ardently love” the area.

“We must cherish ethnic unity like we take care of our eyes and ... nestle together with people of all ethnic groups as close as pomegranate seeds,” they wrote.

Experts say employment discrimination, fuelled by an influx of ethnic majority Han Chinese taking up jobs, has fuelled resentment and unrest among Uighurs in Xinjiang.

Beijing has begun to pay more attention to the region’s development, particularly in the southern areas dominated by Uighurs and religious conservatives.

The article said soldiers must help develop the economy in southern Xinjiang, and encourage the people to “move toward modern civilization and move away from religious extremism”, by providing villagers access to science, culture, law and health.

Every year all military units must contribute funds to help resolve problems like a lack of drinking water or difficulty in seeing doctors, the article said.

The article also called for greater emphasis on education, saying children should “study, live and grow up” in schools.

Uighurs have traditionally followed a moderate form of Islam but many have begun adopting practices more commonly seen in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, such as full-face veils for women, as China has intensified a security crackdown in recent years.

_Published in Dawn, July 2nd, 2015_


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## William Hung

As long as they are bringing it without coercion, then it should be OK. It needs to be done in a sensitive way in which the consent, dignity, worth and value of the locals are respected.

If not, then just remember, even the imperialists of yester centuries justified their colonies with the "bringing modern civilisation to the primitives" excuse.


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## TaiShang

​

Located in Burqin County of Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Wucaitan, or Rainbow Beach, is a sightseeing spot known for its unique landforms created by years of wind and water erosion. Featuring blue sky, colorful beach and clear water, Wucaitan is one of the most famous attractions in Xinjiang. [China.org.cn]

​ 

​ 

​ 

​ 

​ 
​ 

​

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## Indika

“These knives are not illegal, and they're a part of Uighur history,” he said. “But if the police search you and find one, especially for young men, it will bring you a lot of hassle. So people don't buy them because it's not worth the trouble."

Are the knifes equivalent to kirpans carried by Sikhs in india ?

Behind the veil: China's hardline policies hurt minority businesses in Xinjiang - World - DAWN.COM




This photo shows Uighur women wearing headscarves while shopping at a bazaar in Hotan, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP




This photo shows a woman repairing a roof in the old city in Kashgar, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP




This photo shows workers using modern bricks and mud-based cement to repair a wall in the old city in Kashgar, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP




This photo shows Uighur women wearing headscarves while shopping at a bazaar in Hotan, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP




This photo shows a woman repairing a roof in the old city in Kashgar, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP


KASHGAR: The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers.

As violence increased last year in China's far western region of Xinjiang, home to mostly Muslim Uighurs, authorities banned veils and other Islamic coverings — wreaking havoc on her business.

“We're all branded as terrorists because of a few bad people,” said Gulnur, who is Uighur. “The Chinese don't understand that we're not all the same.

“Regulations like this will only alienate people,” she added.

It is an example of the challenges Beijing faces pacifying the region, where Uighurs accuse the Chinese government of discrimination and restrictions on language, culture and religion.

Read more: _China pushes Uighurs to give up fasting in Ramazan_

Xinjiang shares a border with Afghanistan and Pakistan and is culturally closer to Central Asia than China's Han heartland.

Authorities blame the violence — which has increased in intensity and spread beyond the region in recent years, with more than 200 people killed in 2014 — on Islamist separatists.

In the past year many forms of Islamic dress have been banned and beards ruled out for young and middle-aged men as Beijing works to root out what it calls “religious extremism”.

Posters throughout the region list the prohibited “five abnormal appearances": face veils, burqas, young women in tight headscarves, the beard restrictions, and any clothing with a crescent moon and star logo akin to the Turkish flag.

One propaganda image shows a woman in her 30s with a simple head covering looking in a mirror and seeing a smiling face, while a veiled female is confronted with a skeleton on fire.

Taxis throughout the region are not allowed to pick up customers wearing banned items. The city of Karamay has barred them from public transport, and Turpan has stopped burqa sales.





This photo shows a Uighur woman wearing a lace veil at a market in Kashgar, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP
At a bazaar in Hotan, Patigul showed off what was once her most popular item: a 15 yuan ($2.40) white lace veil covering the bottom half of a woman's face and held in place by surgical mask-style straps.

“The government has been discouraging wearing veils for years, but we never expected a complete ban and it's hurt business,” she said. “We weren't prepared, and suddenly couldn't sell about half our inventory."

*Bearded beauty*
A man from Kashgar was jailed for six years in March for growing a beard and his burqa-wearing wife sentenced to two years, reports said.

Beijing — which says it has brought Xinjiang development and higher living standards — insists that more conservative forms of dress are foreign imports from the Middle East and not part of Uighur culture.

Face veils represent a “cultural reverse”, Zeng Cun, the Communist Party secretary of Kashgar reportedly said in March.

“We have to take strides forward as a secular, modern country,” he added.

France and Belgium have enacted similar bans on veils, provoking widespread debate unseen in China.

But a traditional Uighur saying declares: “The beauty of language is in its expressions, the beauty of a man is in his beard,” and analysts say the Xinjiang measures risk backfiring.

Read more: _Burqa banned in China's Xinjiang_

“There is clearly a stronger emphasis now among Uighurs on maintaining the religion and practicing Islam as the state insists on ruling what is culturally acceptable,” said David Brophy, a professor at the University of Sydney and Uighur expert.

“Islam is a central part of people's identity as Uighurs."

In cities across Xinjiang, Uighurs and Han Chinese residents live almost entirely separately, with a heavy security presence in places frequented by Han and tourists.

In some places the very fabric of Uighur city life has fallen victim to government regulations.

At 40, Abdul Resli has been a traditional builder for more than half his life and has 20 men working for him in Kashgar's old city.





This photo shows workers using modern bricks and mud-based cement to repair a wall in the old city in Kashgar, in China's western Xinjiang region. The Silk Road trading centre of Kashgar has been Muslim for centuries, but despite hordes of people thronging the main bazaar, Gulnur's headscarf shop had barely any customers. — AFP
But the area has been largely demolished and rebuilt in government-mandated redevelopment over the last decade, putting artisan brick makers out of business and leaving him fewer homes to work on.

Authorities say the works are to improve safety standards, but Abdul says earthen brick walls have stood for 500 years.

“I can't trust the quality” of newer bricks, he says. “But it's what I've been told to use."

*'A lot of hassle'*
Officials across Xinjiang declined to discuss the ban on Islamic clothing or its effects on small businesses when contacted by AFP.

The increase in violence has also hurt businesses itself, with tourist numbers down nearly five per cent last year and the Xinjiang government acknowledging that “influence from terrorist attacks” was a factor.

Eminjan, a seller of traditional knives with a thick mustache, said most of his business dried up after a group of Uighurs stabbed 31 people to death at a train station in Kunming in March last year.

_Take a look: Xinjiang separatists kill 29 in China rail attack: Xinhua_

Like many interviewed for this story, he preferred to identified by only one name for fear of government reprisals.

“These knives are not illegal, and they're a part of Uighur history,” he said. “But if the police search you and find one, especially for young men, it will bring you a lot of hassle. So people don't buy them because it's not worth the trouble."


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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang Offers Discount Meat ahead of Major Festival*
2015-07-14 

Authorities in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region have began selling discount meat to residents ahead of Eid al-Fitr, a large festival that marks the end of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, which falls on Saturday.

From Monday to Friday, authorities are expected to offer around 1,000 tonnes of fresh mutton through nearly 200 sales points in 39 counties administered by 11 prefectures and cities, according to a spokesman with the region's commerce department.

The meat was priced between 40 to 44 yuan (6.5 to 7.2 U.S. dollars) per kilogram, which is 10 to 15 yuan cheaper than market prices, said the spokesman.

It is a long-held tradition for Xinjiang authorities to supply cheap meat prior to major festivals, such as Eid al-Fitr. In the past, however, frozen meat was offered.

This year, the government will supply fresh mutton in order to bolster confidence of local animal husbandry, as the market price for beef and mutton have remained relatively low since the second half of last year.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang's glacier in danger as tourists flout ban*
​
Glacier No. 1 in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region is shrinking. [File photo/China.org.cn]

The regional government marked out a protection zone covering 948 square kilometers in the Tianshan Mountains on April 23 last year in a bid to reduce the impact of human activities on the glacier.

Travel agencies canceled glacier tours, but that didn’t stop the tourists coming and a group of herdsmen saw an opportunity to supplement their incomes, the newspaper said.

"On average, we accept at least 20 to 30 vehicles of people every day, which can bring up to 3,000 yuan (US$483)," one herdsman said, adding that they also sold medicinal herbs.

According to Xinhua news agency, the 4.8-million-year-old glacier has shrunk from 1.95 square kilometers in 1962 to 1.62 square kilometers in 2014 and is retreating by up to eight meters a year.

Li Weidong, vice secretary general of the Xinjiang Ecological Society, said tourism was also threatening the existence of Ili pika, an endangered mammal.

Melting glaciers were driving the animal to live at higher altitudes and over-digging of herbs had deprived them of food, Xinhua said.

​
Glacier No. 1 in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. [File photo/China.org.cn]

​
Glacier No. 1 in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. [File photo/China.org.cn] 

​
Glacier No. 1 in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. [File photo/China.org.cn] 

​
Glacier No. 1 in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. [File photo/China.org.cn] 

​
Glacier No. 1 in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. [File photo/China.org.cn]

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## TaiShang

At times intense tourism might lead to unaccounted environmental pressures.

No wonder XinJiang is so popular.

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## Jlaw

China should limit the amount of people to other regions too like Tibet. the ecology is too fragile.

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## XiangLong

Also, most of the fresh water that fills the Chinese rivers (and also those of Pakistan and India) come from these kind of glaciers in China. The last thing you want is some tourist being a ''tourist'' near one of your sources of drinking water. 

And as a matter of fact, glaciers, especially during the thawing seasons, can be unpredictable as F@#%.


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## TaiShang

Jlaw said:


> China should limit the amount of people to other regions too like Tibet. the ecology is too fragile.



Then people will start complaining about oppression, torture and all the things free world hates to see. 

But seriously, both provinces of China are vital natural resource deposits, hence, at least certain fragile areas must be announced no go.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> Then people will start complaining about oppression, torture and all the things free world hates to see.
> 
> But seriously, both provinces of China are vital natural resource deposits, hence, at least certain fragile areas must be announced no go.


We all know that even if China becomes a developed country and not start any wars, we will still be villified. So I say who cares.


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## opruh

Xinjiang is so beautiful, no wonder a certain country is pretending to be brothers just to get this territory.


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## TaiShang

Total population of Xinjiang Autonomous Region has grown from 17.2 million in 1997 to 22.1 million in 2011, representing a 28.6% growth over a period of 15 years. More than 90% of the population is made up of various non-Han Chinese nationalities. 


Below is the chart of Xinjiang total population and trends from year 1997 - 2011:







Due to the China Western Development policy, the region’s economy has been developing rapidly. Xinjiang’s nominal GDP has climbed from 105 RMB billion in 1997 to 661 RMB billion in 2011, reflecting a 6.3 times increase over the years.


Below is the chart of nominal GDP and trends of Xinjiang autonomous region from year 1997 - 2011:






Xinjiang’s nominal GDP per capita has swelled from 6,110 RMB in 1997 to 29,920 RMB in 2011, reflecting a 4.9 times increase over the years. In 2012, disposable income of urban citizens reached 17,921 RMB, up 15.5% from 2011, while income per capita of farmers and herdsmen increased by 17.5% - exceeding 6,390 RMB for the first time.


Below is the chart of Xinjiang nominal GDP per capita and trends from year 1997 - 2011:






Manufacturing sector of Xinjiang’s Autonomous Region constitutes to a substantial portion of the region’s GDP. In 2011, the manufacturing industries contribute 41% to the region’s GDP. Its main industries include: steel, coal, petroleum, machinery, chemistry, building materials, textile, sugar-making, paper-making and tobacco industries. The service sector contributes 34% to the region’s GDP, while the agricultural sector comprises of 17% of the total. Its main agricultural sectors include: cotton, grain, beet, fruit, horticulture and livestock husbandry.


Below is the chart of Xinjiang GDP by agricultural sector, manufacturing sector, construction sector and service sector for the year 2011:







Total investments fixed assets of Xinjiang Autonomous Region has been on a upward trend from 
45 RMB billion in 1997 to 463 RMB billion in 2011, reflecting a 10.4 times growth over a period of 15 years. Most of the foreign investments are derived from Hong Kong. Besides, most of the investments are channeled to farming, animal husbandry, manufacturing and wholesale and retail trade industries. Xinjiang’s has the largest oil, coal and natural reserves in the country. This would provide alluring incentives for investors. Investments in industries such as: petrochemicals, textiles, red wine and ketchup industries are being strongly encouraged and would be given priority.


Below is the chart of Xinjiang total investment in fixed assets and trends from year 1997 - 2011:






Source: China Market Research

@waz , @Shotgunner51 , @Beidou2020 , @Yizhi , @Chinese-Dragon , @Kyle Sun , @kankan326 _et al_.

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## TaiShang

*Hami melon fair kicks off in Xinjiang*



People view the displayed Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Xiongxin)




Actors perform a traditional dance during the opening ceremony of a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Xiongxin)




People view the displayed Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Hua)




People view the displayed Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Hua)




People taste Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20 , 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Hua)

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## Kyle Sun

TaiShang said:


> *Hami melon fair kicks off in Xinjiang*
> 
> 
> 
> People view the displayed Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Xiongxin)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actors perform a traditional dance during the opening ceremony of a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Xiongxin)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People view the displayed Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Hua)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People view the displayed Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20, 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Hua)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People taste Hami melons, a popular cantaloupe, during a Hami melon fair in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 20 , 2015. More than 150 varieties of Hami melons were displayed on the fair that kicked off here on Monday. (Xinhua/Li Hua)


We can call it sugar but not fruit. 
eztremely sweet!

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## dy1022

great


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## TianyaTaiwan

I like to eat Hamimelons.


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## TaiShang

Kyle Sun said:


> We can call it sugar but not fruit.
> eztremely sweet!



Not always sweet enough, for my taste. But if it happens to be sweet, l bask in joy

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## Devil Soul

Xinhua
July 21, 2015
URUMQI: As the Muslim fasting month of Rmazan ended, researchers from Xinjiang academy of social sciences recently concluded a tour of the region to look into local Muslims’ life during the holy month.


“It’s been a very peaceful and harmonious Rmazan for Muslims. We should help the world understand the respect Chinese policies offer to ethnic minority groups and their religions,” said Tomur Tursun, party secretary of the academy.


The government of the autonomous region made it clear before Rmazan that authorities should fully understand, respect and show consideration toward Islam, said Ma Pinyan, a researcher with the academy. “Many shops around the mosques have been providing those who fast in the day with free fruit, desserts and meal,” said Eli Hupur, another researcher with the academy who studies ethnic culture. “The streets were busy even at midnight. On the brightly lit streets, we saw people on their way to visit their families and vendors selling fruit,” he said.


Rmazan lasts from June 18 to July 18 this year. During this season of fasting and spiritual reflection, Muslims are not allowed to eat or drink from sunrise to dusk. It is widely observed by Xinjiang’s ethnic minorities including Hui, Uygur, Kazakh, Uzbek, Tajik and Kyrgyz.


Xinjiang has over 10 million Muslims and more than 20,000 mosques.


Abdurahman, Imam of a mosque in the regional capital of Urumqi, said, the mosque usually receives 1,200 visitors daily, but during Rmazan the number has risen to over 3,000.


“The government has given us enough protection and respect,” he said adding that the local government carried out fire and epidemic prevention work ahead of Rmazan.


Muslims from outside China are also feeling the peace of Rmazan in Xinjiang. At the International Grand Bazaar in Urumqi, capital of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, a dozen Turkish businessmen are selling specialties such as food, clothing, accessories and carpets.


Cihan Aydogmus, 38, has lived in Xinjiang for more than 10 years. He owns two carpet factories, one in Istanbul and the other in Kashgar. He is married to a Uygur woman and has two children.


“My wife is fasting, but I am not since I have been too busy with my business. People here decide by themselves whether to fast and whether to go to the mosque based on their own situations, without interference from others,” he said.


“It is untrue that Rmazan in Xinjiang has restrictions. What I see here is a free and easy atmosphere,” he said.


“Ten years ago, the living conditions in Istanbul and Urumqi differed greatly, but now people in Urumqi are better off and life here is no different from that in Istanbul, so I have decided to continue seeking my fortune here,” he added. 
Peace, harmony prevails in Xinjiang during Ramazan

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang invests 10 billion yuan to build helicopter manufacturing base*
July 22, 2015






Xinjiang military helicopters. (Photo/81.cn)
Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps cooperates with China Helicopter Industry Development Association (CHIDA) and the United States and China Foundation (USCF), signing the agreement framework of building a large helicopter manufacturing base in Xinjiang.

Majoring in producing US Vertical Aviation Technology, Inc (VAT) hummingbird features helicopters, luxury business helicopters, and designated helicopters for police and medical use etc. The project, which is expecting over 10 billion yuan investment, is targeting an annual yield of 300 to 400 helicopters, and realizing the domestication of helicopter parts.

In the meantime, to coordinate with the comprehensive implementation of "One Belt and One Road" Xinjiang aviation project, both sides will fully cooperate with each other not only within the project, but also in building international aviation institute, air tourism,and pilot license trainings etc.

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## cirr

Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps turning itself into a helicopter maker？

It should do what it does best：make its regiments cities in Xinjiang。

How many cities are under XPCC‘s administration nowadays？

10？20？

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## TaiShang

Gurbantonggut desert highway. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)




Gurbantonggut desert highway. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)




Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)




Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)




Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)




Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)





Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)

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## Kyle Sun

This reminds me the road of AZ and NV

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## cirr

TaiShang said:


> Gurbantonggut desert highway. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
> 
> 
> 
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> Gurbantonggut desert highway. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)



Our beautiful Motherland，man-made or god-made。

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## jkroo

TaiShang said:


> Gurbantonggut desert highway. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gurbantonggut desert highway. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
> 
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)
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> Gurbantonggut desert. (Photo / chinapic.people.com.cn)



It's wonderful, I will like driving there.

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## TaiShang

*古尔班通古特沙漠腹地——大漠的血脉*
2013-07-11





中国最美的五大沙漠——第三名，古尔班通古特沙漠腹地。






古尔班通古特沙漠，位于新疆准噶尔盆地中部，面积4.8万平方公里，居我们沙漠的第二位。沙漠中生长着100多种植物，其中不乏优良固沙植物和牧草。





沙漠里冬季的雪景、春季的鲜花、夏季的绿灌都各有特色。而春季开花的古尔班通古特沙漠特有的短命植物群落最引人瞩目：这时，沙漠里一片草绿花鲜，繁花似锦，把沙漠装点得生机勃勃，景色充满诗情画意。





这里，一边是胡杨、梭梭、黄羊，古老的自然生态；一边是机耕、电井、喷灌，现代的绿洲文明。一边是沙丘绵延、万籁俱寂，生命罕至；一边是绿波万顷，欢歌笑语，生机盎然。


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## esolve

in recent years, beauties from Xinjiang begin to dominate Chinese TV dramas. Here are some of them


Gülnezer Bextiyar (Uyghur)





Dilireba （Uyghur）





Tong Liya （Sibe people）





Madina Memet （Uyghur）





Reyizha Alimjan（Kazakhs）

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## XiaoYaoZi Backup

我喜欢成才媳妇.

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## TaiShang

We Taiwan watch many of them on TV shows like Voice of China and I am a Singer. 

They are very popular.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Dilireba looks unstoppable for now.

Many youngsters are now obsessed with her.

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## XiaoYaoZi Backup

最早的买红妹

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## AndrewJin

国民媳妇们

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## XiangLong

Goddamn... Gülnezer Bextiyar and Tong Liya, man...

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## jamahir

dilireba and tong liya... very pretty and such feminine expressions... but they must must must become fatter.

lucky chinese to see them in tv shows or films.

now thank your indian friend.

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## LowPost

The bloody hell is wrong with the characters in the second video?!  That being said, cheers for creating the topic.


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## IsaacNewton

Some Turkish member who I would not name is really hurt over how China oppresses its Uyghur minorities. 

I think a Uyghur in China has much better access to education/jobs and less discrimination in the entertainment industry than the Kurds in Turkey.

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## xunzi

Those Uighur looks closer to a Han Chinese than a Turk. Just saying.

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## rott

They look like Koreans with cosmetic surgery.



xunzi said:


> Those Uighur looks closer to a Han Chinese than a Turk. Just saying.


They also look like Chinese with cosmetic surgery.


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## S10

Uyghurs, Kazakhs and Tajiks living in China have some Caucasian features to them. You will also find similar women near the border with Russia, as many of them are mixed.


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## VALKRYIE

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
AUGUST 27, 2015






Uighurs in Xinjiang Province look at posters put up by the Chinese government that show scenes associating Uighurs with destruction or cooperation between Uighurs and Han Chinese

BEIJING — Chinese courts in the restive, western region of Xinjiang have jailed 45 people on terrorism-related charges, including 18 convicted of organizing illegal border crossings, state-run media reported Thursday.

Among them were at least eight people — most likely minority Uighur Muslims — who were sentenced to prison terms on charges of trying to leave China unlawfully, the official Xinhua News Agency said.

Beijing has recently come under international criticism after it succeeded in having sent back to China about 100Uighurs who had sought refuge in Thailand. The men were filmed being hooded, cuffed and escorted to China under tight police watch.

Authorities have said the Uighurs seeking to leave China are influenced by religious extremism and planning to join jihad, or holy war. Advocates for Uighurs say they are fleeing China to escape repression.

The eight who were sentenced included five people who were given eight to 10 years by a court in Kashgar, after being captured by Tajikistan police near the border with Afghanistan, Xinhua said. The news agency said they had met frequently to read about religious extremism and plotted to move abroad to join jihad.

In Hotan, a court jailed three men for 10 to 15 years after they were intercepted by Chinese police at the Urumqi airport on their way to Turkey on falsified Turkish passports, Xinhua said.

In two other cases handled by a Karamay court, 18 people — appearing to be from the majority Han ethnic group — were convicted of organizing illegal border crossings, Xinhua said.

In one case, two people — Wei Hai and Chen Qianggui — were imprisoned for life after they and 11 others helped 305 people to illegally cross into Vietnam from December 2013 and June 2014, for a fee of up to $1,000 per person, Xinhua said.

The Karamay court convicted five more "snakeheads" — a term for those who smuggle migrants — in a separate case, Xinhua said. The men were caught when they were hauling 21 illegal immigrants to Vietnam in April 2014, Xinhua said.

The report did not provide details on the other 19 people who were convicted and jailed.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/...p-as-china-terrorism-sentences.html?referrer=

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## CAPRICORN-88

The Uighurs caught in Thailand and other ASEAN nations with Turkish Passport. 

So do these Uighurs considered themselves as Chinese or Turkish? 

If the Uighurs thinks that Turkey is their motherland then they should all be shipped back to Turkey and they should remain loyal to Turkey. Good Riddance Rubbish!

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## TaiShang

*45 sentenced for terrorism in Xinjiang*

2015-08-28 

Forty-five people were given jail terms ranging from four years to life imprisonment for terrorism, the local people's courts in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region said on Thursday.

The regional High People's Court said on Thursday that the suspects were tried in 10 cases in courts in Yili, Aksu, Hotan, Kashgar and Karamay recently.

*The 45 people were accused of helping others illegally cross the Chinese border, organizing, leading and participating in terrorism and funding terrorist organizations.*

In two of the cases,* 18 human traffickers from other parts of the country were found guilty of helping more than 300 people enter Vietnam, making illegal profits of nearly 2 million yuan ($312,000).*

Human traffickers Wei Hai and Chen Qianggui were sentenced to *life in prison* while the other 16 were handed prison terms ranging from seven to 15 years, reported the Xinhua News Agency.

In a case tried in Kashgar, five people were sentenced to eight to 10 years in prison after being arrested on the border between Afghanistan and Tajikistan attempting to join the East Turkestan Islamic Movement and Taliban terrorist groups.

The group often gathered to read books on religious extremism, watch videos featuring violent terrorism and conspire to migrate to other countries to join the jihad, the local court found.

*In another case in Hotan, three were sentenced to 10 to 15 years for forging Turkish passports and attempting to fly from Beijing to Turkey to join the jihad, reports said.*

***

I would say the terms given to ETIM and Turkey-bound ISIS terrorists are way to light.

*Why not at least a life term in a labor camp? *

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## IR-TR

CAPRICORN-88 said:


> The Uighurs caught in Thailand and other ASEAN nations with Turkish Passport.
> 
> So do these Uighurs considered themselves as Chinese or Turkish?
> 
> If the Uighurs thinks that Turkey is their motherland then they should all be shipped back to Turkey and they should remain loyal to Turkey. Good Riddance Rubbish!



It doesn't matter what 'they' consider themselves. Are you completely oblivious of law? Yeah, let's 'consider' myself this and that and it will be true. They are Chinese citizens first and foremost, and China gets to decide what happens with them. End of subject. They are subject to Chinese law.


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## TaiShang

*A ‘mysterious corps’ was power behind the making of China's Xinjiang*
| September 24, 2015, Thursday | 

Sixty years ago, a huge paramilitary corps that today administers eight cities with a combined population of 2.7 million was not widely known to exist.

“We used to be called the ‘mysterious corps’. The exact locations of our regiment could not be revealed to outsiders,” said Xiong Ying, a member of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps, or XPCC, a group established to reclaim land from desert, build cities and guard the border.

The XPCC now has its own administrative and judicial bodies and runs more than 4,000 companies, 14 of which are listed on the stock exchange.

Over the past six decades, it has opened up and spearheaded regional economic development in Xinjiang, which is preparing to celebrate its 60th anniversary as an autonomous region next month.

Two decades ago, Xinjiang Tianye Group was a failing plastics company. Now it is XPCC’s biggest enterprise, which exports chemicals, food, irrigation and water-saving equipment to over 60 countries and regions.

A water-saving irrigation system, which proved successful on parched land in Xinjiang, has been used on 4 million hectares of land across China. It is also marketed to farmers in countries such as Kazakhstan and Pakistan, where it has been installed on more than 10,000 hectares of land.

At an international expo held by XPCC last week, officials and companies from five neighboring countries attended.

Liu Xinqi, deputy Party secretary, told his guests: “XPCC has unique advantages, solid industrial infrastructure, and a strong urge to open up.

“It needs to deepen cooperation with both domestic and overseas businesses. We will create more opportunities for cooperation,” he said.

Political commissar Han Yong said: “Although the corps is located in the western borderlands and constrained by military rules, it cannot cut itself off from the rest of the world.”

“Russia is looking to strengthen cooperation with XPCC in agriculture. We have been given great opportunities as the two countries build the Silk Road Economic Belt,” said Russian State Duma member Svetlana Maximova, who was at the expo.

Jin Maofang, 82, a Shihezi resident, is respected in her community as part of a first generation of “military explorers.”

But 54 years ago, Jin, a young soldier from a well-off family in eastern China’s Shandong Province, was not sure about her fate when she was dispatched to the remote borders of Xinjiang.

“I fell ill on my trip to Xinjiang, and when I arrived, I saw nothing but sand, desert and flying dust,” Jin recalled.

Over the decades, millions of people like Jin have overcome hardship and witnessed great changes.

“I remember working 12 hours plowing the field non-stop. When I was so tired that I could barely stand, I would lie down on the ground to sleep a few minutes,” she recalled.

“But we were firmly committed to changing the landscape of the desert, using our own hands to plant trees, reclaim farm fields and build our lives,” she said.

Jin’s image was on the one-yuan note in the 1960s — a proud symbol of industrialization. “The image is not only me. It tells the tale of that generation,” she said.

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## cirr

With a population of 2.7 million and 14 “divisions” or cities under its administration，the actual size of the XPCC is much larger than a “Corps”。 

The XPCC was created subsequent to the collective demobilization of the PLA’s 2nd、5th、6th corps and the 22nd army formation。

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## AndrewJin

*XPCC‘s biggest city, Shihezi






*

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## Pangu

Combat engineers turned civil engineers kick butts in the desert!

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang's GRP Grows 115-Fold From 1955: Report*
2015-09-24

A white paper on ethnic equality, unity and development in Xinjiang revealed that the gross regional product (GRP) of the region in 2014 marked a growth of over 115-fold from that in 1955.

The white paper, titled "Historical Witness to Ethnic Equality, Unity and Development in Xinjiang" and issued by the State Council Information Office on Thursday, said that Xinjiang's GRP was only RMB1.2 billion in 1955 and RMB3.9 billion in 1978.
*
In 2014, the document said, it reached RMB 927.3 billion, a 116-fold increase over that of 1955 in real terms, with an annual growth rate of 8.3 percent.*

*Also, the docuemnt noted that Xinjiang's per-capita GRP rose to RMB 40,648 in 2014 from RMB241 in 1955, marking a 23-fold increase in real terms, and a 5.6-percent annual growth.*

The white paper further noted that the economic structure is being steadily optimized and the infrastructure has become more and more complete in Xinjiang.

"Xinjiang has become an information society," the white paper said, adding that solid progress has been made in opening up to the outside world.

Moreover, the report added that steady progress has been made in environmental protection.

Since 2010, Xinjiang has planted or protected over 2,500,000 (166,667 ha) of forests by restricting access to mountain areas. Its total forest area and forest stock rank 14th and 12th in China.

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> *Xinjiang's GRP Grows 115-Fold From 1955: Report*
> 2015-09-24
> 
> A white paper on ethnic equality, unity and development in Xinjiang revealed that the gross regional product (GRP) of the region in 2014 marked a growth of over 115-fold from that in 1955.
> 
> The white paper, titled "Historical Witness to Ethnic Equality, Unity and Development in Xinjiang" and issued by the State Council Information Office on Thursday, said that Xinjiang's GRP was only RMB1.2 billion in 1955 and RMB3.9 billion in 1978.
> *
> In 2014, the document said, it reached RMB 927.3 billion, a 116-fold increase over that of 1955 in real terms, with an annual growth rate of 8.3 percent.*
> 
> *Also, the docuemnt noted that Xinjiang's per-capita GRP rose to RMB 40,648 in 2014 from RMB241 in 1955, marking a 23-fold increase in real terms, and a 5.6-percent annual growth.*
> 
> The white paper further noted that the economic structure is being steadily optimized and the infrastructure has become more and more complete in Xinjiang.
> 
> "Xinjiang has become an information society," the white paper said, adding that solid progress has been made in opening up to the outside world.
> 
> Moreover, the report added that steady progress has been made in environmental protection.
> 
> Since 2010, Xinjiang has planted or protected over 2,500,000 (166,667 ha) of forests by restricting access to mountain areas. Its total forest area and forest stock rank 14th and 12th in China.



在统计方面，兵团的人口和面积一般都计入地方政府的统计中（兵团城市除外），但国民生产总值等则*单独列出*。

The XPCC is administered by both the central government of the People's Republic of China as well as the government of Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. It has sub-provincial powers on par with sub-provincial cities, and its economic and social development are administered separately from that of Xinjiang. *The area and population of the XPCC are generally given as part of Xinjiang's total figures, but the GDP of the XPCC is generally listed separately.*

Average GDP per capita of XPCC is *higher* than the number of Xinjiang(excluding XPCC), *63989yuan (around $10,000)*










One of my relatives has spent his entire life in XPCC as a meteorologist. They are proud people.

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## Zibago

Women's veils a sign of backwardness in Xinjiang: Officials




BEIJING: The custom of women wearing face veils is not a tradition of minority people in China's western area of Xinjiang or in any Muslim country, but is a symbol of extremism and backwardness instead, a senior regional official said on Thursday.
Energy-rich Xinjiang, visited this week by British finance minister George Osborne on a rare trip by a Western official, is strategically located on the borders of Central Asia.
China has great plans for the region in its new Silk Road strategy.
The government has stepped up curbs on religious clothing in the heavily Muslim area, where it blames Islamist separatists for violence that has killed hundreds of people over the past few years.
Many Xinjiang experts say the outlawing of veils and strict enforcement of the rules could further stigmatise the region's Uighurs, who speak a Turkic language and call the region home.
Last year, Karamay, a northwestern city in Xinjiang, banned people wearing head scarves, veils or long beards from boarding buses.
Authorities in Xinjiang's capital of Urumqi have also banned the wearing of Islamic veils in public.
In unusually strong comments, Xaukat Emen, a member of the Xinjiang Communist Party standing committee, said face veils and other coverings for women were “typical extremist attire” and had nothing to do with Xinjiang, or Arab or Muslim countries.
"A people who totally cover both their eyes are certainly a backward people. We Uighurs do not want to see our female comrades wear this type of clothing," he told a news conference in Beijing.
"Many women want to work, and many want to have contact with society. So on this issue, we will resolutely not agree." In some cases, men had worn the veil to kidnap children, he added.
Uighurs have traditionally followed a moderate form of Islam, but many have begun adopting practices more common in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, such as full-face veils for women, as China has stepped up the security crackdown of recent years.
Exiles and many rights groups trace the real cause of the unrest to China's heavy-handed policies, including curbs on Islam and the culture and language of the Uighurs.
China denies trying to repress the Uighurs.
An Uighur himself, Xaukat Emen said the government was committed to supporting religious rights in Xinjiang, especially those relating to important festivals such as Eid and the fasting month of Ramazan.
"All the people enjoy religious freedom, and the normal religious practices of believers are protected by law," he said.

Women's veils a sign of backwardness in Xinjiang: Officials - World - DAWN.COM

@DESERT FIGHTER @waz @WAJsal @Zarvan @engineer saad

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## EAsian

I agree with him.Wahabism poison should be exterminated.

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## Place Of Space

This is good official statement.

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## volcano

Not surprising.. According to chairman mao religion is a poison to humanity. One who belives that her face is sinful are definitly backward.


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## pigtaker

take a look at how chinese posters praise israel for handling face veils happened 3 days ago. this is the opinion of our main majority.

*以军神勇：蒙面女僵尸试图偷袭以色列大兵被击毙(转载)*

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## Tea addict

Place Of Space said:


> Indian are shameless rumors. When did Mao ever say that? You read all his books, can't find your sentences. You eat sh't everyday, right?


According to this book (Biography of Dalai Lama, published in Taiwan), Mao did say this.
Quote:
“末了,_毛澤東_告訴_達賴喇嘛_:
「我很了解你。但_宗教_當然是_毒藥_。他有兩個缺點:危害人類和阻礙國家進步。”
found it from a answer in this
Did Mao really say "Religion is poison" to the Dalai Lama? - Quora


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## Kyusuibu Honbu

@Al-zakir


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## Place Of Space

Tea addict said:


> According to this book (Biography of Dalai Lama, published in Taiwan), Mao did say this.
> Quote:
> “末了,_毛澤東_告訴_達賴喇嘛_:
> 「我很了解你。但_宗教_當然是_毒藥_。他有兩個缺點:危害人類和阻礙國家進步。”
> found it from a quora answer
> Did Mao really say "Religion is poison" to the Dalai Lama? - Quora



I don't want to make comments on Dalai Lama's word, okay?



Jlaw said:


> These shameless brown Negroids claimed to have invented interstellar flight 10,000 years ago. Spreading rumour is nothing.



Why can't put the guy into ignored list? I tried twice.


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## Tea addict

Place Of Space said:


> I don't want to make comments on Dalai Lama's word, okay?


Ok, but it would have been a classic quote from sir Mao if he would have siad that


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## Place Of Space

Tea addict said:


> Ok, but it would have been a classic quote from sir Mao if he would have siad that



I repeat, be off Dalai Lama's word. He is just an Indian slogan tool.

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## Azizam

pigtaker said:


> take a look at how chinese posters praise israel for handling face veils happened 3 days ago. this is the opinion of our main majority.
> 
> *以军神勇：蒙面女僵尸试图偷袭以色列大兵被击毙(转载)*


LOL seems like even the Chinese have had enough with them.


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## Burhan Wani

EAsian said:


> I agree with him.Wahabism poison should be exterminated.


It is not related to wahabism.
Every Islmic sect have same belief regarding women veil. For your information christian nuns and jews strictly obey this law as well.


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## ThaniOruvan

Place Of Space said:


> I repeat, be off Dalai Lama's word. He is just an Indian slogan tool.



Correction, he is just a Tibetan slogan tool.

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## Rajaraja Chola

engineer saad said:


> It is not related to wahabism.
> Every Islmic sect have same belief regarding women veil. For your information christian nuns and jews strictly obey this law as well.



To be honest have never seen Christian nuns covering their faces. And majority of modern Muslim girls wear burqa on the forced insistance of their parents. Atleast that is what my friend told me.


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## Bussard Ramjet

engineer saad said:


> It is not related to wahabism.
> Every Islmic sect have same belief regarding women veil. For your information christian nuns and jews strictly obey this law as well.



Time to evolve. Hindus had Sati system, caste etc. Many ills.

We recognized and banned them. Sati System is extinct, Caste influence is steadily decreasing.



Rajaraja Chola said:


> To be honest have never seen Christian nuns covering their faces. And majority of modern Muslim girls wear burqa on the forced insistance of their parents. Atleast that is what my friend told me.



Even if it were to be voluntary, somethings have to be just banned for the sake of society. 

In sati system also, there were many women who willfully took part.

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## CHN Bamboo

fakhre mirpur said:


> Karamay, a northwestern city in Xinjiang, banned people wearing head scarves, veils or long beards from boarding buses.


***Karamay is a developed area and Han dominates...



fakhre mirpur said:


> "A people who totally cover both their eyes are certainly a backward people. We Uighurs do not want to see our female comrades wear this type of clothing," he told a news conference in Beijing.
> "Many women want to work, and many want to have contact with society. So on this issue, we will resolutely not agree." In some cases, men had worn the veil to kidnap children, he added.


It's woman's right...
Any religion should not oppress women.
Something I can tell u,there r muslim live near my family.Woman dont wear black things(I dont know use which word to describe),but wear colorful head scarves.(inland China,Hubei province)
Woman work,too.I can see her busy working every day.

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## Lure

Such traditions are both backward and barbaric. People should stop giving legitimacy to such inhumane traditions with freedom of religion.

There may be ancient Aztec religion believer who wants to sacfice virgins during solar eclipse. Will we also let them do it by the name of freedom of religion? 

Freedom of religion is a vassel to spread very dangerous ideologies around the world.

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## Tiger Genie

Let's acknowledge this is a tough issue to deal with whether it happens in China or India or US or Pakistan.

In general any religious symbol should be protected subject to it not impacting safety of all.

The burkha has been abused several times - including in Pakistan where I recall some criminal cleric from the Lal mosque escaped or tried to escape wearing one. The burkha has been abused to hide bombs and weapons in other instances.

By sheer common sense, we should realize that any loose fit garment that covers up almost 100% is probably being misused a 100 times undetected for each time such abuse has been actually discovered.

I think the Chinese are right in banning it especially in that area of their country where islamic extremism is insurgent.

That said, banning is probably not necessary in India or the USA because we just don't have anywhere near that level or intensity of conflict.

I think similarly each country is entitled to make an assessment of their threat level and decide.

It certainly does not tantamount to discrimination - such a decision protects both muslims and non-muslims from suicide bombers


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## Burhan Wani

Rajaraja Chola said:


> To be honest have never seen Christian nuns covering their faces. And majority of modern Muslim girls wear burqa on the forced insistance of their parents. Atleast that is what my friend told me.


Mr. I didn't said nuns cover faces, they obey their own veil laws.
Parents forced their girls in many ways and i think it they are responsible for it.



Bussard Ramjet said:


> Time to evolve. Hindus had Sati system, caste etc. Many ills.
> 
> We recognized and banned them. Sati System is extinct, Caste influence is steadily decreasing.
> 
> .


Who banned sati system? hindus?


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## Bussard Ramjet

engineer saad said:


> Mr. I didn't said nuns cover faces, they obey their own veil laws.
> Parents forced their girls in many ways and i think it they are responsible for it.
> 
> 
> Who banned sati system? hindus?



No british, but the movement was spearheaded by many Indian thinkers. 

Not only this, Indian constitution essentially ended or kept banned all parochial things like Sati, Dowry, Child Marriage, Untouchability etc.


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## Burhan Wani

Bussard Ramjet said:


> No british, but the movement was spearheaded by many Indian thinkers.
> 
> Not only this, Indian constitution essentially ended or kept banned all parochial things like Sati, Dowry, Child Marriage, Untouchability etc.


So that means your ancestors were wrong.... Isn't it?
BTW Tipu Sultan was first to ban Sati practice.


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## Anees

*Now strong Comments ( PMS - Patented Muslim Scholar) from Pakistan friends will say there country there rule, which is only applicable to China ... *


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## homagnibhatt

Chinese Bamboo said:


> ***Karamay is a developed area and Han dominates...
> 
> 
> It's woman's right...
> Any religion should not oppress women.
> Something I can tell u,there r muslim live near my family.Woman dont wear black things(I dont know use which word to describe),but wear colorful head scarves.(inland China,Hubei province)
> Woman work,too.I can see her busy working every day.



What if the woman wishes to wear veil or head scarves? Does that come under women's rights?


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## Rajaraja Chola

engineer saad said:


> Mr. I didn't said nuns cover faces, they obey their own veil laws.
> Parents forced their girls in many ways and i think it they are responsible for it.
> 
> 
> Who banned sati system? hindus?



Rajaram Mohan Roy used his influence with the British to ban Sati. Not that they wanted it. He was the one who spearheaded the agitation against the Sati


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## Lure

homagnibhatt said:


> What if the woman wishes to wear veil or head scarves? Does that come under women's rights?



No it doesn't. If I raise you to be a good slave from the age of 5 and make you believe that if you don't be my slave you will go to hell, than you would happily be my slave without creating much problems. History is full of such figures, we call them God kings.

If you really want to be a slave of a God king, would that legitimize slavery? People are not magical creatures that generates information from out of no where. A great majority of the mankind observes it's nature, observes it's parents and tries to "blend in".

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## Sommer

Tea addict said:


> According to this book (Biography of Dalai Lama, published in Taiwan), Mao did say this.
> Quote:
> “末了,_毛澤東_告訴_達賴喇嘛_:
> 「我很了解你。但_宗教_當然是_毒藥_。他有兩個缺點:危害人類和阻礙國家進步。”
> found it from a answer in this
> Did Mao really say "Religion is poison" to the Dalai Lama? - Quora


Yeah, and Dalai Lama also used to write a letter to Mao talk about "You are the Sun in the world." "You are just great like the Brahmā and 众敬王（Don't know the English. It means the king everyone respect, the first king of India or someone like that.）." "I hope you live long for ever."


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## TaiShang

*China works to preserve Xinjiang's historical Buddhist caves*

*Due to to its location along the ancient Silk Road, China's Xinjiang region is a treasure trove of Buddhist temples and art. *

*POSTED:* 03 Oct 2015 18:02












BAICHENG: China’s far-flung Xinjiang region has a treasure trove of Buddhist temples and art due to its location along the ancient Silk Road.

The Kizil Caves in Xinjiang for instance is the earliest major Buddhist cave complex in China. Despite being uncovered in the last century, most of the caves remain closed to the public.

Only top Chinese leaders are allowed to enter due to the caves’ fragile environment, but tourists can visit about eight of the other 230 known cave temples in the area, although photography’s forbidden.

Most of the caves are in bad condition.

According to locals, the Muslim population living in the area, and more recently the Red Guards from China's Cultural Revolution, were responsible for much of the destruction of the caves' interiors, while in the early 20th century German archaeologists removed large pieces of murals from the caves.

More than US$32 million have been spent over the past decade to restore the caves.

“Our academy is mainly focusing on preventative protection, because there are only a few types of materials in the world that we can use to protect the sites - chemical materials,” said Xu Yongming, president of Kucha Academy of Xinjiang. “But I think these will threaten the long-term preservation of the murals.”






_A mural is seen in the Kizil Buddha Caves in Baicheng County, Xinjiang, China. (Photo: CNA/Jeremy Koh)_

Sun Lianqiang is one of those restoring the murals. He spends up to eight hours a day in cramped conditions touching up the artwork.

“These paintings are a few thousand years old, and I feel a deep sense of responsibility, and I’m afraid of doing something wrong, so every step of the way, there’s a huge pressure,” said Sun.

Some of the paintings were done as early as the 3rd century, which makes them more than 2,000 years old, so besides preserving the artwork here, the authorities are also capturing images of these artwork to form an online depository.

“The main goal is still to record all the information,” said Xu. “Since 2005, we’ve done stuff like virtual tours, cave modelling and virtual modelling, so in the event that the cave is damaged, we can reconstruct it based on our online depository.”

*Authorities hope that these efforts will help restore the caves as close as possible to their former glory. Thus giving more people the chance to view and admire one of the remaining legacies of the ancient Silk Road.*

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## Pangu

Hope to visit these caves in the future, it's ashame that much destruction & looting has happened since.

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## qwerrty

need some soldiers at that place to guard from any attempt by those wacko uyghur terrorists to erase evidence that their people were not native there like what their comrades done in afghanistan

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## Pangu

qwerrty said:


> need some soldiers at that place to guard from any attempt by those wacko uyghur terrorists to erase evidence that their people were not native there like what their comrades done in afghanistan



They could have just left it alone, after all, a stronge heart fears no mirage before the eyes. Perhaps those terro-wackos should just dig out their own eyes, then all is pure before them...

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## TaiShang

qwerrty said:


> need some soldiers at that place to guard from any attempt by those wacko uyghur terrorists to erase evidence that their people were not native there like what their comrades done in afghanistan



Thankfully only a minority belong to that class of animal and a good portion of them are being fried by Russia in Syria.

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## Keel

warning signs of external profiling of Uyghur terrorists, nothing more, nothing less

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## TaiShang

*Farmer painting show in Beijing: charting a new countryside in Xinjiang *
| 2015-10-02 20:28:13 | 






Blessings Extended, by Palashati, a farmer painter from Xinyuan county, Ili Kazak autonomous prefecture, NW China’s Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region. (Farmers Daily/Jiang Peiling)

BEIJING, Oct. 2 (Xinhuanet) -- Xinjiang farmer paintings numbering 166 are exhibited in the Classics Museum of the National Library in Beijing, Sept. 28, 2015. Each painting, vivid and distinctive, with a theme of countryside from views of farmers, tells a story, expressing the simplicity of local people in different nationalities, showing their spirits of Love of the Motherland and Passion for Xinjiang, Solidarity and Dedication, Hard Work and Mutual Cooperation, Opening-up and Enterprising.

Co-hosted by the Public Culture Department of Culture Ministry, Culture Department of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region and National Library in Beijing, the activity, Charting a new countryside in Xinjiang: farmer paintings for celebrating the 60th anniversary of founding of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, part of a series of Spring Rain Project 2015 by cultural volunteers touring the bordering regions of the country. This show is divided into five sections, that is, Modern Culture, National Unity, Economic Advance, Livelihood, Social Development, comprehensively showing encouraging changes and tremendous achievements in Xinjiang over the past six decades, particularly since the Central Conference on Work in Xinjiang, and also showing the admiration for capital Beijing and the love of the great motherland of the grassroots farmers.

These works are from painting admirers, of different nationalities including Uygur, Han, Hui, Kazak, Kirgiz, Xibe, Mongolian, and Tajik. It is known that, famer paintings have become an important form of arts used by people of different nationalities praising new times, new life, and new development among the farming and livestock areas around Xinjiang. By the end of 2014, there had been already 22 provincial-leveled farmer painting bases all over the region altogether. And the number of farmers engaged in painting and instructed by the Culture Centers (Stations) has surpassed 2,000.

This show will last till October 7, accompanied with A Collection of Farmer Paintings in Xinjiang published by the hosting parties.

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker



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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang witnesses a historic leap in the past 60 years*
October 08, 2015






Xinjiang Xiaerxili Nature Reserve in the summer time, July 26, 2015. (Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)

Since its founding on October 1, 1955, China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region has spent 60 springs to the date. The advancement in the history is always embodied by some details and the mark of times is always represented by efforts, which are shocking or silent, nothing but coordinates and evidences of the great changes thanks to the hard work and concerted efforts all of one mind.






Bullet trains are running on a bridge in the prefecture of Hami, NW China’s Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, May 22, 2015.(Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)






The locals in their ethnic costumes are welcoming their first tourists arriving by high-speed rails “Apricots” at the Turpan North Station, March 21, 2015. (Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)






Petroleum and gas pipelines project underway by Petro China in the Taklimakan Desert, July 27, 2013. (Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)






On the scene of classes in a bilingual kindergarten in the township of Wutamu, Ruoqiang county, Bayingolin Mongolian autonomous prefecture, NW China’s Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, June 9, 2012. (Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)






The picture above: Housing improvement projects in progress at the rundown urban area on the Yuejin street, Urumqi, NW China’s Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region, June 25, 2015;

The picture below: The rundown urban area prior to its rebuilding, May 25, 2010. (Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)






Trains are moving on the horizon, June 28, 2011. (Source: Tianshannet/Xinhua)

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## somebozo

Just keep this area safe from terrorist wanting sharia law..

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## jkroo

My respect to the planners, constructors and engineers.

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## beijingwalker



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## Beast

Li Yizu: I Am a Xinjianger, Not a Foreigner -- Beijing Review






"I am not foreign," 77-year-old Li Yizu always tells people who mistake him as not-Chinese from his unusual appearance.





Li with his foster mother in the backyard of their home in Beijing in 1938 (FILE)

Orphaned by his parents in coastal Tianjin Municipality in 1938, Li still does not know who they are, what nationality they have, under what circumstances he was entrusted to his foster parents from Beijing.







Four-year-old Li Yizu in Beijing in 1942 (FILE)

He was a lucky boy. He received better education than most of his Chinese peers. In 1961, he graduated from Beijing Geological School and found a job in Beijing.

His job was exploring coalmines. Before his graduation, he had been to many cities around the country, leaving only northwest China untapped. Fueled by the government's call on the country's youngsters to build up the underdeveloped northwestern area, he came to Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region with 50 other geologists and stayed there until today. Today all his sisters and brothers from his foster family have migrated to the United States and he is the family's only child that lives in China. Although his life as a coalmine explorer gave him many hardships and he had to drift from place to place, he was always optimistic and his love for Xinjiang has never changed.

"After I arrived in Xinjiang, I never wanted to leave. This place has beautiful scenery and kind people," Li said.

In addition to winning him more attention, his high nose, curled hair and deep eyes occasionally got him in trouble.

For several times he was stopped and interrogated while exploring mines in wild fields. He had to show his documents and explain why a foreign-looking man was bent over and digging in the desolated and remote area.







Li Yizu in Wenquan County,Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, as a mine prospector (FILE)

After arriving in Xinjiang, Li was assigned to explore coalmines. Most of the time, he and his colleagues spent months or even more than a year looking for mines in the wild, but he never complained about it. On the contrary, he felt fulfilled and proud of exploring areas few people could reach and seeing beautiful scenery that was unique to Xinjiang.

He never regrets choosing Xinjiang. "I did not feel pain. I feel good about my work. Whenever I saw the natural beauty, I forget all the hardness and fatigue," said Li.

What impressed him most is always the kindness of the Xinjiang people. In 1975, his car was stuck in ditch along the Ulungur River, one of the main rivers in Xinjiang. No one was in sight to help. He walked more than 1 mile to reach a shepherd's home. The house only had an old couple and several little kids. They did not hesitate to follow Li to rescue his car. Li was so moved that he could never forget that kind couple. Although his wife's home town was more than 2,500 miles away in south China, they decided to settle down in Xinjiang in 1972. "Both of us became real Xinjiangers," said Li.

After working in the wild for more than two decades, Li was offered a job in school and then became the headmaster of Urumqi No.41 Middle School before retiring in 1998. After his retirement, he began his life as a volunteer, teaching science to children. 

Owning to his years of working experience in the wild, he tells stories about his adventure out in the open. He has traveled more than 56 counties and cities in Xinjiang and taught nearly 800 classes, but he never asked for a cent.

He tried all his best and never refused to learn new things and explore new fields. Now he can use computers to search for useful material on the Internet.







Li teaching science in schools as a volunteer after retirement (FILE)

He always wants to fulfil his life. In his 50s, he and his friend traveled on motorcycle for more than 5,500 miles from Xinjiang to Tianjin where he was adopted by his parents. In 2011, he took a group of TV men to film a documentary on a place little known to others in Xinjiang.

When asked why he loves Xinjiang so much. He said: "Xinjiang has beautiful water and mountains and nice people. I love this place and always want to do something for her."

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## TaiShang

*China-Thailand Friendship Cultural Trip Starts in Xinjiang*
2015-11-16

A motorcade carrying nearly 80 people from China and Thailand will depart from Altay, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region on Monday, kicking off a cultural exchange trip marking 40 years of diplomatic ties between the two countries.

The motorcade will drive through five provinces/regions in China including Xinjiang, Gansu, Shaanxi, Sichuan, Yunnan and enter Thailand via Laos. A celebration ceremony will be held in Bangkok, capital of Thailand, on Dec. 13 before the motorcade finishes the trip and returns to China.

The trip is expected to last 37 days covering a total length more than 7,000 km. Multiple cultural events will be staged during the activity, journalists and visitors from both countries will visit cultural heritage sites, industrial landscapes, temples and destinations with ethnic characteristics.

Zhang Aiping, vice president of China International Culture Association said the trip is expected to promote cultural and tourism ties between China and Thailand and to promote cultural exchanges along the ancient silk road.

Sugree Sithivanich, Deputy Governor for Marketing Communications for the Tourism Authority of Thailand, said he expected the trip to further promote mutual understanding and friendship between the two countries.

The event is jointly hosted by China International Culture Association, Tourism Authority of Thailand, Thai-Chinese Cultural & Relationship Council and supported by China Association of Automobile Culture.

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## ahojunk

This is a wonderful idea or we would say, "this is a bloody good idea."

What took the Thais and Chinese so long?

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## Huan

Be sure to show us plenty of good pictures along the trip. lol

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## TaiShang

ahojunk said:


> This is a wonderful idea or we would say, "this is a bloody good idea."
> 
> What took the Thais and Chinese so long?



Better late than never. I think economic development results in a better social-political environment. History, after all, is a reflection of economic interactions.

***

*Thai-Chinese school planned to boost rail specialists *
10 Nov 2015 

Thai-Chinese school planned to boost rail specialists | Bangkok Post: news

(Please refer to the link since the website would not allow copy/paste).

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## ito

REUTERS — PUBLISHED 29 MINUTES AGO
WHATSAPP
 0 COMMENTS


PRINT



"I heard from colleagues who participated in the operation that the military blew up the cave where the suspects were hiding," the report quoted Xinjiang police officer Ghalip Memethe as saying. — AP/File
BEIJING: Chinese security forces in the restive far western region of Xinjiang have killed 17 people, including women and children, accused of involvement in an attack at a coal mine that left at least 50 dead, United States (US)-based Radio Free Asia said on Wednesday.

Hundreds of people have died in unrest in Xinjiang, home to the mostly Muslim Uighur people, and other parts of China over the past three years or so. China blames the violence on Islamist militants.

China has appealed for the international community to provide more help in its campaign against Xinjiang militants following the attacks in Paris, for which the self-styled militant group Islamic State (IS) has claimed responsibility.

The government has made no public comment about the September 18 attack at the Sogan colliery in Aksu, with Radio Free Asia reporting most casualties were members of the Han Chinese majority and police blaming knife-wielding separatists.

Radio Free Asia, citing Xinjiang police, said the 17 killed were all suspects in the attack, including three men believed to have been the ringleaders and their family members.

Repeated calls to the Xinjiang government seeking comment went unanswered.

"I heard from colleagues who participated in the operation that the military blew up the cave where the suspects were hiding," the report quoted Xinjiang police officer Ghalip Memethe as saying.

"That is why we were able to kill all of them with zero victims from our side. Seventeen corpses were gathered after the explosion."

On Saturday, state media microblogs published pictures provided by the Ministry of Public Security of armed police on what it said was a 56-day mission to root out militants in Xinjiang, though it gave no details of the target, only that all the suspects had been killed.

Some of those reports were later removed from the Internet.

Radio Free Asia said that report likely referred to the operation to find the suspects in the coal mine attack.

The Ministry of Public Security did not respond to requests for comment. While the government often gives details about violence in Xinjiang, it is not uncommon for them not to report certain incidents at all.

A spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, the only government department that regularly answers questions from foreign reporters, said he knew nothing about the report.

Rights groups and exiles say the violence in Xinjiang stems more from widespread Uighur resentment at Chinese controls on their religion and culture rather than being committed by a well-organised militant group.

China strongly denies abusing human rights in Xinjiang, and says it is facing a determined campaign from Islamic radicals and separatists.

Chinese security forces kill 17 in Xinjiang: Radio Free Asia - World - DAWN.COM

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## Kyle Sun

wth. ?only 17?

wth. ?only 17?

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## vtnsx

"China has appealed for the international community to provide more help in its campaign against Xinjiang militants"

I thought the almighty China could do it by themselves? Why appealed for help?

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## badguy2000

*what a good title......what a typical CNN/BBC/Fox-ish title....*


Judging from the title, you would take it granted that the 17 guys damned evil CCP killed are innocent...hehehe


what? * the 17 guys are the murders killing 50+ miners/policemen???*

well, it is indeed wrote here....well .....no... it was* hidden between some lines...*

the same word can be gifted to USA ,without much revision.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_



Rights groups and local people say the violence in *New York* stems more from widespread Islam resentment at *USA *invasion on their land and culture rather than being committed by a well-organised militant group.

*USA *strongly denies abusing human rights in *guantanamo*, and says it is facing a determined campaign from Islamic radicals and separatists.

Click to expand...

_

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## Shotgunner51

No surprise, that's western media. Compare the narrative with these:

Paris attacks: French police hunt second fugitive, officials tell AP - CBS News
Police: 3 terror suspects killed in raid | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com
Police raid targets suspected Paris attack mastermind - CNN Video

Good work for: "*Police raid targets of Urumqi attack mastermind, 17 terror suspects killed*"

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## oproh

Wonderful news, spare no terrorists China, hunt all those rats and execute them immediately.

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## djsjs



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## sicsheep

hahaha they blew up the cave 

payback LOL

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## badguy2000

vtnsx said:


> "China has appealed for the international community to provide more help in its campaign against Xinjiang militants"
> 
> I thought the almighty China could do it by themselves? Why appealed for help?



that is called "moroality highland", which is usually occuplied by west medias so called.

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## Sanchez

That's it! Eye for eye, blood for blood.

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## Ryuzaki

good job


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## tranquilium

ito said:


> Hundreds of people have died in unrest in Xinjiang, home to the *mostly *Muslim Uighur people, and other parts of China over the past three years or so. China blames the violence on Islamist militants.



I don't know about you, but 45% doesn't count as mostly. 40% of Xinjiang's population is Han Chinese while the other minor races made up 15% of the population. Uighur (which doesn't actually all follow the same branch of Islam) is the larger ethnic group in the region, but it is about the same size as Han.

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## hexagonsnow

,Show no mercy for the extremely Muslim!

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## type93

17 terrorists vaporized

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## hexagonsnow

badguy2000 said:


> *what a good title......what a typical CNN/BBC/Fox-ish title....*
> 
> 
> Judging from the title, you would take it granted that the 17 guys damned evil CCP killed are innocent...hehehe
> 
> 
> what? * the 17 guys are the murders killing 50+ miners/policemen???*
> 
> well, it is indeed wrote here....well .....no... it was* hidden between some lines...*
> 
> the same word can be gifted to USA ,without much revision.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


what can you expect them ?pro the CCP?Never!CNN,BBC,all blame China ,xinjiang Muslim have no human right and nor freedom,well ,How about the Paris attack ?Can we says that cause the tense suppress of France gov force the Muslim to slain the people in Paris?

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## Okemos

Radio Free Asia? lol, as if we should be freed by some higher beings. I think Chinese government is way too soft on terrorist groups and also should immediately change its pro-minority policies like lenient law enforcement on minority members, etc.

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## Great Sachin

why women and kids.....


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## Beast

Great Sachin said:


> why women and kids.....



From those few words, you know is pure propaganda. The western especially US also claim Russia airstrike killed only FSA , children and kid but yet ISIS decide to retaliate against Russia by bombing their civilian airliner that killed 224 innocent people.

These show Russian airstrike strike precisely those ISIS garbage and killed many of them which causes the retaliation. So much of US media.

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## Pangu

Thumbs up to the operatives who sent the scums to hell.

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## Zsari

Great Sachin said:


> why women and kids.....


 
You mean you haven't heard of female and teenager suicide bomber before? Just ask the Israelis.



vtnsx said:


> "China has appealed for the international community to provide more help in its campaign against Xinjiang militants"
> 
> I thought the almighty China could do it by themselves? Why appealed for help?


 
It meant to point the finger at those who are funding the terrorist in case you haven't figure that out.

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## Wolfwind

They were a serious and dangerous threat to China's national security and the safety of its people. 17 down, many more to go.

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## faithfulguy

Jigong said:


> They were a serious and dangerous threat to China's national security and the safety of its people. 17 down, many more to go.



Any legitimate government would treat terrorists like how they treat the victims. By this reasoning, Obama is not legitimate. Obama only seek to understand and rehabitate terrorists, not destroy them.

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## TheTruth

This is proof that RFA has dealings with terrorists.

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## Dungeness

Shotgunner51 said:


> No surprise, that's western media. Compare the narrative with these:
> 
> Paris attacks: French police hunt second fugitive, officials tell AP - CBS News
> Police: 3 terror suspects killed in raid | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com
> Police raid targets suspected Paris attack mastermind - CNN Video
> 
> Good work for: "*Police raid targets of Urumqi attack mastermind, 17 terror suspects killed*"




That is how they managed to turn hundreds of thousands overseas Chinese back to the arms of CCP. After all, there is no much differences between Western "Free Media" and CCP "Propaganda" anyway.

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## Sasquatch

Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.

In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.

@Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn

Thoughts on this?

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## Sommer

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?


Just used to it.
People dead in Lebanon cares no one. People dead in French is a big deal.
Everyone of the atackers in Paris was born and rised in French, and after this French choose to declare a war with ISIS than change the live situation of the muslims.

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## CHN Bamboo

Great Sachin said:


> why women and kids.....


in kunming,a woman used her knives,and killed many people...

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## Brainsucker

Sommer said:


> Just used to it.
> People dead in Lebanon cares no one. People dead in French is a big deal.
> Everyone of the atackers in Paris was born and rised in French, and after this French choose to declare a war with ISIS than change the live situation of the muslims.



So... we can say that French Government kills their own people in retaliate 140 people dead?  Wow, that is a better tittle if you want to make French angry

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## Schutz

cave hahaha


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## kasper95

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?


I agree what you say,but part of problem is with China as well.
for example if Indian press is not allowed to operate freely in China ,they will report what's being reported by west ,who in turn will be reporting quoting un named sources.

its up to China to open up.


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## Schutz

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?


There is no double standards, you have a part of your country which has historically had a large muslim population, no where in Europe has a muslim majority area apart from some shitholes in the Balkans. Its a bit different than 1st/2nd generation immigrants who attack France, they know it isnt truly their home whilst with the Uighurs it is their home.

Look at this recentish bbc article 

Three 'Xinjiang terrorists' shot dead by police in China - BBC News

Thats not reported any differently than the Paris attacks...terrorists killed in a raid, a description of the raid and how the police dealt with it. You are finding double standards which exist everywhere, you can also find normal reporting, it depends what your willing to look for, if all you want to find is double standard journalism then it isnt hard. I dont think you will find any "western" people who would side with the muslim population of China apart from some human rights PC pricks, the train station attack and a few others were heavily reported on here and had no double standards. Good job to the security forces in eradicating more scum at the end of the day no matter how you read the article.


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## Dungeness

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?




Radio Free Asia, just like VOA, is one of the arms of US propaganda machine, so this is expected. And we all know how the so called "main stream media" of "International Community" would spin everything about China, so it is not a big surprise either. We are not going to see anything different from the west anytime soon.

On the surface, it is about the good "free democratic international society" versus "evil totalitarian regime", but in its core, it is about Anglo-Saxon versus Oriental. The west is simply not ready to see China's rising into the world stage so soon and so powerful, and they seem to be unable to stop this from happening, so they will use every opportunity and do everything to defame China. "Double Standard" is an understatement, and it reflects the sharp contrast between their desire to contain China and their inability to do so. Simply put it, the west is not ready to accept China as a great power in equal footing.

What China needs to do, I think, is to strive for its international discourse power, which could be much more effective than ASAT, ASBM, or additional AC battle groups to create a more favorable international climate. CCTV needs to reform and come up with something in line with RT. Otherwise, China will still remind in this hostile international environment for years to come.

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## empirefighter

vtnsx said:


> "China has appealed for the international community to provide more help in its campaign against Xinjiang militants"
> 
> I thought the almighty China could do it by themselves? Why appealed for help?


Lol，not any Chinese or Russian appeal for military and intelligent help from the West，both of us do not expect them .the west can not even dealt with their own thing except the US.
The TRUTH is: many terriorists and organizations such as Bin Laden are supported by the West from training and finance,the West also give them political support and refusing admitting them as terrorists. The West try to use them to infiltrate into China and Russia to make internal conflicts between Muslim minority and non Muslim groups. That is what we call "double standards",if Muslim fight with China or Russua ,they are minority who are poorly treated by the dictatorship government.if Muslim fight with the West,they are the terrorist.
we China have enough military capability and can easily crush any rebellion,so,just mind yourself,the devil West.

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## Sasquatch

Schutz said:


> There is no double standards, you have a part of your country which has historically had a large muslim population, no where in Europe has a muslim majority area apart from some shitholes in the Balkans. Its a bit different than 1st/2nd generation immigrants who attack France, they know it isnt truly their home whilst with the Uighurs it is their home.
> 
> Look at this recentish bbc article
> 
> Three 'Xinjiang terrorists' shot dead by police in China - BBC News
> 
> Thats not reported any differently than the Paris attacks...terrorists killed in a raid, a description of the raid and how the police dealt with it. You are finding double standards which exist everywhere, you can also find normal reporting, it depends what your willing to look for, if all you want to find is double standard journalism then it isnt hard. I dont think you will find any "western" people who would side with the muslim population of China apart from some human rights PC pricks, the train station attack and a few others were heavily reported on here and had no double standards. Good job to the security forces in eradicating more scum at the end of the day no matter how you read the article.



Disagreed during the multiple stabbings, bombings, and other terror attacks, there was no sympathy for the victims or condemnation from the west and even multiple opinions went as far as to blame China. The mass attack on Kunming the US skidded on calling it terrorism until major reactions were lodged at the US embassy. Xinjiang is not only the home of Uighurs it has been the home of Han before the birth of Islam or the Uighurs even arrived there, when you resort to violence it does not matter if its your home or not you cross the line.

I have seen western reporting put "terrorist" as if they allude to it not being terrorist attacks despite the number of dead Han, Hui, and Kazakh bodies shown, it does look like they have some kind of agenda when it comes to China.This was again shown with western media and countries play this with Russia dealing with the Chechens until the 9/11 and Boston bombings. Hopefully this will change, but the US continues to fund the World Uyghur Congress which has been shown to blame China for every terror attack and instigated events in the region.

@Dungeness post explains it pretty well.

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## Pangu

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?



Agreed bro. Some Western media would report these acts of terrorism as "incidents", & they never let an opportunity slip by injecting the angle than China is to be blamed for it & deserving it. While I do feel sorry for the Paris victims, I was like, meh, an "incident" just happened in France...

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## TaiShang

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?



Western (mainly US) media is inherently fascist and reactionary.

Western governments do not hold any moral values, but preach them fanatically when they know they can use them as a tool.

Hence you have a history of US governments and military/secret services propping up and cooperating with dictators, junta and bloody regimes across the world.

That's for the same reason that the US regime has been so aligned with the likes of Qatar, Turkey and Saudi Arabia on the issue of Syria.

Hence, it is all about geopolitics and hard power. Those who hold the ultimate hard power also hold the power of discourse, as has been pointed out by @Dungeness .

In this respect, China should pay ZERO attention and ZERO heed to the Western fascist media and governments on the issues pertaining to both domestic and international security and interests of China.

China shall continue to exterminate religio and ethno fascists wherever they hide. China will also spread secularism, education, and language to the furthest parts of the nation. China will lay out railways, logistics centers and airports up to the roof of the world.

China's problem is not that it is morally right or wrong. Its problem is that China is still a developing nation. It still needs to gather greater national power. When China has enough power, then discourse will follow.

Until that time, Xinjiang terrorists (dead and soon to be dead) are to be viewed by the Western media as "suspects" that are "allegedly" involved in terror activities.

When China has the ultimate hard power, then we can portray the "alleged perpetrators" of Twin Tower "incident" as "suspects" or a "bunch of angry youth due to misguided US policies." And the rest of the world will love to accept and parrot it.

Thus, ignore the fascist Western media as much as you can, and onto the duty of China's national rejuvenation.

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## Barrel-Bomba

good job, China.. keep killing these jihadi rats


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## jkroo

Stupid, don't sell this cheap radio fnck asia sh!t. India could also be victim.

Go to see how America create ISIS.

获奖美国记者揭露了ISIS和「反恐战争」的真正起源 - 今日头条(TouTiao.com)

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## LowPost

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?



How is the world supposed to win the War on Terror if the West weaponises terrorism against a country they see as an adversary? 

I've got a suggestion for the staff members: Ban ETIM/terrorism/separatism apologists on the forum in the same way Daesh/Taliban sympathisers are dealt with on PDF. Sanity will be partially restored at least in the China & Far East section

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## Sanchez

Schutz said:


> There is no double standards, you have a part of your country which has historically had a large muslim population, no where in Europe has a muslim majority area apart from some shitholes in the Balkans. Its a bit different than 1st/2nd generation immigrants who attack France, they know it isnt truly their home whilst with the Uighurs it is their home.
> 
> Look at this recentish bbc article
> 
> Three 'Xinjiang terrorists' shot dead by police in China - BBC News
> 
> Thats not reported any differently than the Paris attacks...terrorists killed in a raid, a description of the raid and how the police dealt with it. You are finding double standards which exist everywhere, you can also find normal reporting, it depends what your willing to look for, if all you want to find is double standard journalism then it isnt hard. I dont think you will find any "western" people who would side with the muslim population of China apart from some human rights PC pricks, the train station attack and a few others were heavily reported on here and had no double standards. Good job to the security forces in eradicating more scum at the end of the day no matter how you read the article.



Aren't terrorists blamed for their acts rather than motives? Are there any good reasons to become a terrorist? Would the event of stabbing 200 innocent people at Kunming railway station in China last year be justified not to be terrorist act?

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## jkroo

Sanchez said:


> Aren't terrorists blamed for their acts rather than motives? Are there any good reasons to become a terrorist? Would the event of stabbing 200 innocent people at Kunming railway station in China last year be justified not to be terrorist act?


Bro, you just have responded to a ridiculous ponits. The most funny thing is that there comes out an opinion terrorists based on 'locations'.

No need to argue with them, we just do ourselves

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## Shotgunner51

jkroo said:


> Bro, you just have responded to a ridiculous ponits. The most funny thing is that there comes out an opinion terrorists based on 'locations'.
> 
> No need to argue with them, we just do ourselves



Terrorist scums or freedom-fighter saints, that depend on their "targets".

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## hexagonsnow

Shotgunner51 said:


> Terrorists or freedom fighters, that depend on their "targets".


terrorists always in the name of freedom,isn't it ?The terrorist love call themselves freedom fighters,killing for freedom dead for freedom

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## Edison Chen

Beijing security forces.

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## jhungary

Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?



Why would the west care about terrorist or civilian kills in China? The same way did China care about War on Drug victim in Mexico? Or do people in China know how many people killed by Military Police in Brazilian favela?

Media report on news that their own people want to hear, so they would tune in, and so they sell ads time. How much do you care about the sphere out of your own influence? Do you know how many country have war going on? And ever wonder why your local TV station did not report any of those?

People in America is more sympatric to French, than to Chinese, hence people are more interested in news regarding the French then China, The same way people in US or Canada (Especially Canada) would care much more about what happened in France than what happened in China, unless the news in China comes with broadcasting value, there won't even be a slot time for those, simply there are only 30 minutes to 1 hour program, and you cannot possibly show news from all around the world and then what you have to do is to show news that you can sell.

*The same way on Chinese media, how much you care or even know about what happened in Mexico, Columbia, Brazil or Argentina? In the US, they related a lot on the issue there, but I don't think China have any major relation toward those place and I don't see CCTV reporting on the relative of Mexico Provincial Sheriff was killed 2 weeks ago in a drug related hit. Nor the Bope (Rio SWAT) Operation in Rio leads to 4 civilian dead just a month prior. Those news would have no value to air in China, then can we also say China have double standard?
*
People in different country buy what they care, so if they don't care, they don't know and you cannot say since they don't care, then they have double standard amongst things, that's simply because we as human can't possibly care about all the things. What you think is of value does not mean they are in the other part of the world, and simply, You have to choose.

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## Jlaw

Chinese Bamboo said:


> in kunming,a woman used her knives,and killed many people...


Yes, the Chinese authority is allowing her to give birth to a future terrorist since she was pregnant at the time. She should have got this . Sometimes the CPC is soft on crimes they should not be.



Hu Songshan said:


> Pretty much the double standards of the west. If a terrorist attack occurs in the North America or Europe it should be condemned and sympathy comes pouring in. If it happens in the non western world it receives little to no sympathy unless in some cases.
> 
> In China's situation it is our fault and we deserve this as the narration goes, I have seen disgusting articles "A cry of desperation of terrorism" and plenty more with their own spin. If the Chinese media twisted the Boston Bombings or 9/11 as America to blame they would have been shunned and condemned. Personally this is why I and many of the people I have spoken to in China could care less about the attack in Paris, the chickens are coming home to roast as repercussions in our view. China's war on Uighur terrorism will go on for another 10-15 years but ultimately due to the demographs, security, and development of Xinjiang it will end. Europe case no so much, Just sit back and watch the show.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @tranquilium @Dungeness @Jlaw @Pangu @Borr @TaiShang @Zsari @Sommer @Arryn
> 
> Thoughts on this?


I feel the same way. I did not talk about the Paris attacks with my friends until one person bought it up. Then I asked him why the world did not condemn the Kunming attack that killed 127 people, etc but instead use words such as "attackers", "assailants" etc when they should use TERRORISTS.

Chinese collectively should just poo-poo this event and not even mention it.

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## Aepsilons

Edison Chen said:


> Beijing security forces.



Any more pictures?


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## Sasquatch

jhungary said:


> Why would the west care about terrorist or civilian kills in China? The same way did China care about War on Drug victim in Mexico? Or do people in China know how many people killed by Military Police in Brazilian favela?
> 
> Media report on news that their own people want to hear, so they would tune in, and so they sell ads time. How much do you care about the sphere out of your own influence? Do you know how many country have war going on? And ever wonder why your local TV station did not report any of those?
> 
> People in America is more sympatric to French, than to Chinese, hence people are more interested in news regarding the French then China, The same way people in US or Canada (Especially Canada) would care much more about what happened in France than what happened in China, unless the news in China comes with broadcasting value, there won't even be a slot time for those, simply there are only 30 minutes to 1 hour program, and you cannot possibly show news from all around the world and then what you have to do is to show news that you can sell.
> 
> *The same way on Chinese media, how much you care or even know about what happened in Mexico, Columbia, Brazil or Argentina? In the US, they related a lot on the issue there, but I don't think China have any major relation toward those place and I don't see CCTV reporting on the relative of Mexico Provincial Sheriff was killed 2 weeks ago in a drug related hit. Nor the Bope (Rio SWAT) Operation in Rio leads to 4 civilian dead just a month prior. Those news would have no value to air in China, then can we also say China have double standard?
> *
> People in different country buy what they care, so if they don't care, they don't know and you cannot say since they don't care, then they have double standard amongst things, that's simply because we as human can't possibly care about all the things. What you think is of value does not mean they are in the other part of the world, and simply, You have to choose.



The west is fighting an international war on terrorism, it expects support and sympathy. China is fighting its own war on terrorism, it supports the western efforts against terrorists and offers condemnations whenever a terrorist attack happens on civilian targets. This is not case when terrorism happens in China, hardly any condemnations or support for China's anti terrorism efforts. There is a double standard. Your comparison also does not make any sense China is not fighting a war on drugs and condemning Mexico for fighting its own while condemning civilians.

I agree with you the media offers what citizens want to hear, however justifying terrorism or condemning the country affected by it is pretty low.

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## mpk1988

Good Job.. Finish them all!!!


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## Politico

mpk1988 said:


> Good Job.. Finish them all!!!



indian will always cheers 4 muslim death.

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## mpk1988

Politico said:


> indian will always cheers 4 muslim death.



Terrorists deserve death. If you're against humanity, you should die. Get that through your thick skull.


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## Zsari

jhungary said:


> *The same way on Chinese media, how much you care or even know about what happened in Mexico, Columbia, Brazil or Argentina? In the US, they related a lot on the issue there, but I don't think China have any major relation toward those place and I don't see CCTV reporting on the relative of Mexico Provincial Sheriff was killed 2 weeks ago in a drug related hit. Nor the Bope (Rio SWAT) Operation in Rio leads to 4 civilian dead just a month prior. Those news would have no value to air in China, then can we also say China have double standard?*


 
People are not complaining that there is no coverage in the west of the event that's taking place in Xinjiang, but rather the content of these reports that are justifying terrorism.



Schutz said:


> There is no double standards, you have a part of your country which has historically had a large muslim population, no where in Europe has a muslim majority area apart from some shitholes in the Balkans. Its a bit different than 1st/2nd generation immigrants who attack France, they know it isnt truly their home whilst with the Uighurs it is their home.


 
So terrorism is justifiable past the 2nd generation immigrants?

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## jkroo

Zsari said:


> People are not complaining that there is no coverage in the west of the event that's taking place in Xinjiang, but rather the content of these reports that are justifying terrorism.


Yeah, we will never do that. Terrorism is terrorism and terrorists are terrorists not based at the race, nation and ethnic.

By these reports, the west well defined terrrorism and terrorist. It reflects the morality of the west media.

Well, what you can notice is that some of the west propagenda mechine do work for some filthy purposes.

Look, you have viewed the rediculous viewpoints, haven't you?

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## Zhang Fan

Dungeness said:


> Radio Free Asia, just like VOA, is one of the arms of US propaganda machine, so this is expected. And we all know how the so called "main stream media" of "International Community" would spin everything about China, so it is not a big surprise either. We are not going to see anything different from the west anytime soon.
> 
> On the surface, it is about the good "free democratic international society" versus "evil totalitarian regime", but in its core, it is about Anglo-Saxon versus Oriental. The west is simply not ready to see China's rising into the world stage so soon and so powerful, and they seem to be unable to stop this from happening, so they will use every opportunity and do everything to defame China. "Double Standard" is an understatement, and it reflects the sharp contrast between their desire to contain China and their inability to do so. Simply put it, the west is not ready to accept China as a great power in equal footing.
> 
> What China needs to do, I think, is to strive for its international discourse power, which could be much more effective than ASAT, ASBM, or additional AC battle groups to create a more favorable international climate. CCTV needs to reform and come up with something in line with RT. Otherwise, China will still remind in this hostile international environment for years to come.


Hehe,this guy keeps proping up China while singing the star spangle banner to yankies for gaining himself better resource and social welfare,even if what he says are all correct,he is still unscrupulous.


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## beijingwalker

This young girl's legs were blown off by a bomb planted by terrorists in Xinjiang

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## jhungary

Zsari said:


> People are not complaining that there is no coverage in the west of the event that's taking place in Xinjiang, but rather the content of these reports that are justifying terrorism.



What is "Justifying" terrorism?

I can report an ISIS attack without condemning the attack itself, which is what News Organisation *SHOULD* do as they should stay neutral. So if a news report on an IS attack and does not condemn the attack, does that mean it "*Justifying*" terrorism?

You, as a viewer can be biased. However, a new report should be neutral. Whenever an attack is covered. I don't think those media outlet will condemn anything as they should report the news as it is. Justifying an attack can mean anything, but for news network, the only way they would justify an attack is as if they agree on the attack, which I don't know what kind of news outlet you watch in the west (or allegedly watch) they don't comment on news report here in the major attack

Here is a CNN example on the Chinese Xinjiang attack not so long ago






Compare to a CNN report on Paris Terror Attack







They have the same style of reporting on both attack 1 year apart. Albeit the Chinese one were reported with less information simply due to the government in China were actually the one withholding it....

Just because they do not use the word "Terrorist" in their report, it does not mean that they "Justified" the attack.

But then if you look at non-mainstream propaganda piece, then well, RT will always pro-Russia and Anti-US, Christian News will always be pro Christian and in a way, anti-China.



Hu Songshan said:


> The west is fighting an international war on terrorism, it expects support and sympathy. China is fighting its own war on terrorism, it supports the western efforts against terrorists and offers condemnations whenever a terrorist attack happens on civilian targets. This is not case when terrorism happens in China, hardly any condemnations or support for China's anti terrorism efforts. There is a double standard. Your comparison also does not make any sense China is not fighting a war on drugs and condemning Mexico for fighting its own while condemning civilians.
> 
> I agree with you the media offers what citizens want to hear, however justifying terrorism or condemning the country affected by it is pretty low.



Again, with the "Justifying" part...........

Again, the question is, whether or not the west even "know" about these attack?

Those attack in China in the west would be called "Domestic" terrorism. Which basically in an internal thing. I am not saying those are not terror attack, but just that they are domestic terrorism.

On the other hand, US also had domestic terrorism problem, the question is, you will never hear about them (Domestic Attack in US) when you live all the way in China, as much as a person in US would not hear about any domestic attack in China.

That bring the question to my first post, if any domestic attack (West or China) worth reporting on the other part of the world? The answer is no, even tho you may not know it, but Domestic terrorism is 100 times more complicated to deal with in the US than international terrorism. But then again, it does not concern anyone that does not live in the domain.

What you are saying is that since the US does not response to attack in Xinjiang then they are looking like they "Justified" the attack,* how about did you even know who is Shannon Richardson? Do you know she is an actor and a domestic terrorist? Or Did you know Ismaaiyl Abdullah Brinsley, who killed 2 NYC police officer in a terrorist attack in New York (One of the Officer 刘文健 is a Chinese immigrant too)

So if China did not officially condemn what Shannon Richardson or Ismaaiyl Abdullah Brinsley did, does that mean Chinese Government justifying US domestic Terrorism?*


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## TaiShang

Hu Songshan said:


> The west is fighting an international war on terrorism, it expects support and sympathy. China is fighting its own war on terrorism, it supports the western efforts against terrorists and offers condemnations whenever a terrorist attack happens on civilian targets. This is not case when terrorism happens in China, hardly any condemnations or support for China's anti terrorism efforts. There is a double standard. Your comparison also does not make any sense China is not fighting a war on drugs and condemning Mexico for fighting its own while condemning civilians.
> 
> I agree with you the media offers what citizens want to hear, however justifying terrorism or condemning the country affected by it is pretty low.



The problem with mainstream Western corporate media is that they are very much aligned with the geopolitical interests of the state. Now, this can be expected from VOA, which is supposed to be the voice of its owner.

But, when the US mainstream news media is so powerful and able to set or change the discourse and when they parrot the state line based on geopolitical interests, then you will have loads of suspects and attackers in acts of terror in China's Xinjiang while they are very quick to portray attacks on Western interests as act of terrorism *by default*.

I say "by default" because they do not have to get access to "miraculously" open Western governments to fathom out that the incident is an act of terrorism or not. From second one, day one, they paint a picture and set the discourse.

*The question here is not whether the Western media attend to every criminal incident that happen in China. The question is about how the Western media sets the discourse with respect to mass events that they perceive as having geopolitical value for the state they represent.

Otherwise, I do not care how many NYC police officers are stabbed every day and it is very normal if they do not care what petty crime happened in China.*

Like what happened in Oklahoma bombing incident, they first set the political tone and as the hard data came out, they unwillingly stated it, but the "Arab terrorist" discourse was already set in. This is in fact how they managed to manipulate average person's view to recruit enough support for their glorious war on terror in the 2000s.

I do not complain why the Western media is as it is. What is important is to know their tactics and strategy and thereby examine ourselves to fix the shortcomings.

*This is not to become just like them when we gather enough power, but to have the required consciousness toward and thus immunity to the Western media's discourse terrorism.*

Knowing is empowerment.

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## beijingwalker

*Thousands of local villagers joined the hunt for the terrorists in Xinjiang*
*



*

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## oproh

This is the right thing, citizens should be united in fighting terrorism.

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## Barrel-Bomba

good luck, find them and lynch them.. there should be zero tolerance for jihad.

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## Zsari

jhungary said:


> What is "Justifying" terrorism?
> 
> I can report an ISIS attack without condemning the attack itself, which is what News Organisation *SHOULD* do as they should stay neutral. So if a news report on an IS attack and does not condemn the attack, does that mean it "*Justifying*" terrorism?
> 
> You, as a viewer can be biased. However, a new report should be neutral. Whenever an attack is covered. I don't think those media outlet will condemn anything as they should report the news as it is. Justifying an attack can mean anything, but for news network, the only way they would justify an attack is as if they agree on the attack, which I don't know what kind of news outlet you watch in the west (or allegedly watch) they don't comment on news report here in the major attack


 
Washington Post
Terrorist attack on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30
​Terrorist attack on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30 - The Washington Post

BBC
Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region
Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region - BBC News

CNN
Terrorist attack kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region
Terrorist attack kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region - CNN.com

Associated Press
31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack
31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack - Yahoo News#

All of them are justifying the terrorist attack via the words of "Uyghur activists", another word for the spokesman for UWC. Would any of these media publish the statement from ISIS under the guise of "Islamic activists"?

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## jhungary

Zsari said:


> Washington Post
> Terrorist attack on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30
> Terrorist attack on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30 - The Washington Post
> 
> BBC
> Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region
> Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region - BBC News
> 
> CNN
> Terrorist attack kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region
> Terrorist attack kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region - CNN.com
> 
> Associated Press
> 31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack
> 31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack - Yahoo News#
> 
> All of them are justifying the terrorist attack via the words of "Uyghur activists", another word for the spokesman for UWC. Would any of these media publish the statement from ISIS under the guise of "Islamic activists"?



Are you blinded? Or have some kind of comprehension problem?

*WASHINGTON POST*

*Terrorist attack* on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30
Terrorist attack on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30 - The Washington Post

It already said Terrorist attack on the title, what more do you want?

*BBC*

Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region
Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region - BBC News



> The Ministry of Public Security called it a "violent *terrorist* incident".


Again, it said on the article itself it WAS a terrorist attack.

*CNN

Terrorist attack* kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region
Terrorist attack kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region - CNN.com

Again, they already said it was a terrorist attack in the title, what more do you want?

Associated Press
31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack
31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack - Yahoo News#



> The Xinjiang regional government said in a statement that the early morning attack in the city of Urumqi was "a serious *violent terrorist incident of a particularly vile nature*."



Basically the same piece of news on BBC, again, the article mentioned it was a Terrorist attack.

And also, calling them activist does not mean they are not terrorist, in the US, Domestic Terrorist Group are seldom called terrorist to begin with. They are

*White Supremacist* * 
Anarchist
Nationalist
Militant and also
Activists

British Islamist activists detained in Hungary to be deported to UK | World news | The Guardian
*

Just because they don't use the word "terrorist" that does not mean they are not terrorist. So, if an American News Network calling an IRA operative *an Ireland Nationalist (Which by the way, is their official title)* instead of terrorist on a bombing in Belfast, UK, then did the US "justified" the bombing?? Your logic is funny.

The word terrorist have a very board meaning, in fact, activists is called exclusively for eco and political/religious terrorist because both were activists in title..


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## Brainsucker

jhungary said:


> Why would the west care about terrorist or civilian kills in China? The same way did China care about War on Drug victim in Mexico? Or do people in China know how many people killed by Military Police in Brazilian favela?
> 
> Media report on news that their own people want to hear, so they would tune in, and so they sell ads time. How much do you care about the sphere out of your own influence? Do you know how many country have war going on? And ever wonder why your local TV station did not report any of those?
> 
> People in America is more sympatric to French, than to Chinese, hence people are more interested in news regarding the French then China, The same way people in US or Canada (Especially Canada) would care much more about what happened in France than what happened in China, unless the news in China comes with broadcasting value, there won't even be a slot time for those, simply there are only 30 minutes to 1 hour program, and you cannot possibly show news from all around the world and then what you have to do is to show news that you can sell.
> 
> *The same way on Chinese media, how much you care or even know about what happened in Mexico, Columbia, Brazil or Argentina? In the US, they related a lot on the issue there, but I don't think China have any major relation toward those place and I don't see CCTV reporting on the relative of Mexico Provincial Sheriff was killed 2 weeks ago in a drug related hit. Nor the Bope (Rio SWAT) Operation in Rio leads to 4 civilian dead just a month prior. Those news would have no value to air in China, then can we also say China have double standard?
> *
> People in different country buy what they care, so if they don't care, they don't know and you cannot say since they don't care, then they have double standard amongst things, that's simply because we as human can't possibly care about all the things. What you think is of value does not mean they are in the other part of the world, and simply, You have to choose.



And what about you? Do you care about what happen to China? The killing in Kunming, the Mine, etc?

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## Dungeness

Read the comments section, the readers' reaction may just surprise you. 

Chinese police shoot dead 28 from 'terrorist group' - Yahoo News

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## jhungary

TaiShang said:


> The problem with mainstream Western corporate media is that they are very much aligned with the geopolitical interests of the state. Now, this can be expected from VOA, which is supposed to be the voice of its owner.
> 
> But, when the US mainstream news media is so powerful and able to set or change the discourse and when they parrot the state line based on geopolitical interests, then you will have loads of suspects and attackers in acts of terror in China's Xinjiang while they are very quick to portray attacks on Western interests as act of terrorism *by default*.
> 
> I say "by default" because they do not have to get access to "miraculously" open Western governments to fathom out that the incident is an act of terrorism or not. From second one, day one, they paint a picture and set the discourse.
> 
> *The question here is not whether the Western media attend to every criminal incident that happen in China. The question is about how the Western media sets the discourse with respect to mass events that they perceive as having geopolitical value for the state they represent.
> 
> Otherwise, I do not care how many NYC police officers are stabbed every day and it is very normal if they do not care what petty crime happened in China.*
> 
> Like what happened in Oklahoma bombing incident, they first set the political tone and as the hard data came out, they unwillingly stated it, but the "Arab terrorist" discourse was already set in. This is in fact how they managed to manipulate average person's view to recruit enough support for their glorious war on terror in the 2000s.
> 
> I do not complain why the Western media is as it is. What is important is to know their tactics and strategy and thereby examine ourselves to fix the shortcomings.
> 
> *This is not to become just like them when we gather enough power, but to have the required consciousness toward and thus immunity to the Western media's discourse terrorism.*
> 
> Knowing is empowerment.



lol, a bunch of cork and bull.

First of all, if US media align and towing the state line, then we won't see so many reality show in US media today, people watch American Idol or NCIS a lot more than 20/20 or dateline any day.

What you are saying is a bunch of BULL, coming from a person who think he knows how US media works and in fact know nothing like it, in fact, I would have bet on you never actually watch any Western TV shows, political or drama.

US media serve the US Audience, it report based on what US audience want. Not what geopolitical direction the government have, simply because the government did not control the media and they were not the one paying money to TV station and keep them afloat, that's from selling advertisement slot to commercial backer. Which basically about rating.

Media have a minimal responsibility on reporting political news compare to most "entertainment news" which basically mean the Political News are not getting enough air time on any news program or newspaper and for one reason only, they don't sell. And for that, they will need to sell the news that can be sold to the public.

If only the US media is like what you just said, which being the mouth piece of the government, a lot of thing could have done easily by the government. Vietnam war would be a different ball game. But apparently everyone know, except you, that Media are always at odd with the government, simply being a yes man don't sell.



Brainsucker said:


> And what about you? Do you care about what happen to China? The killing in Kunming, the Mine, etc?



I know about stuff, not from official channel. As for the question do I care about them, in a way, I care about it, because it was about Islamic extremist terrorist, but my answer would be I won't until I need to go to China, in a way.


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## qwerrty

jhungary said:


> US media serve the US Audience, it report based on what US audience want. Not what geopolitical direction the government have, simply because the government did not control the media and they were not the one paying money to TV station and keep them afloat, that's from selling advertisement slot to commercial backer. Which basically about rating.



WMD in iraq... cough* cough** everyone have seen how they play. who are you trying to fool?

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## Dungeness

jhungary said:


> US media serve the US Audience, it report based on what US audience want. Not what geopolitical direction the government have, simply because the government did not control the media and they were not the one paying money to TV station and keep them afloat, that's from selling advertisement slot to commercial backer. Which basically about rating.



Hard to believe being a military professional, you would say something like this!

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## jhungary

Dungeness said:


> Hard to believe being a military professional, you would say something like this!



why?

We all know this long before I joined the Military.

Who said Military have to work hand in hand with the media or vice versa? If we (US military ) were in charge of public media, we would have report more soldier death than Kim Kardashian latest move or who bang Ne-Yo this weekends.

We see US media is what holding us back from doing what we do, every decision we make have to look good to people back home, in the end, we did nothing, because you can't possibly look good killing people in front of the TV.


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## Huaren

Dungeness said:


> Hard to believe being a military professional, you would say something like this!



Military professional can biased as well, just like anybody else.


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## jhungary

qwerrty said:


> WMD in iraq... cough* cough** everyone have seen how they play. who are you trying to fool?



Iraq does have WMD, they have Chemical Weapon stockpile in 2008.

I know what you think, yeah, they are "expired" well, maybe you want to try getting into a room full of these "expired: nerve gas without gas mask?? If you did that, then come back to me to talk about how "Expire" it was


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## TaiShang

qwerrty said:


> WMD in iraq... cough* cough** everyone have seen how they play. who are you trying to fool?



When it comes to the ultimate interests of the state/regime, US media and governments are aligned. Hence you will have NYT selling the war on Iraq to the public single-handedly.

Similar approach can be seen now with respect to Syria. Normally, any armed groups that try to overthrow an internationally recognized nation would be labelled as "terrorists," regardless that government is politically oppressive.

If these militia is imported from other countries, then it would considered an act of war and required legitimate self-defence.

But the US regime and its media have continuously painted the Syrian armed groups (domestic and foreign) as if they held some legitimacy. Hillary Clinton even tried twice to pass a resolution to punish Syria for its legitimate self-defence.

Now I would not wish anything like what happens in Syria to any other nation, including the US, but just keep in mind how many countries US invaded and how many people (civilians included) it killed because some mostly Saudi young men hijacked some planes and killed a few thousands people.

How many countries would Syria seek to attack legitimately (if it had the required national power) on the basis of state and non-state backed terrorism committed against itself?

But you have the US information apparatus working in tandem and setting up a discourse because they have the strategic reach and repetitive power.

The way they approach Xinjiang is, in essence, not different from the way they approach other crises.

It is natural they would act in that way. What is significant is to set up our own discourse. Like Russia does.

Whoever controls the discourse, controls the events.

@Economic superpower

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## Economic superpower

TaiShang said:


> When it comes to the ultimate interests of the state/regime, US media and governments are aligned. Hence you will have NYT selling the war on Iraq to the public single-handedly.
> 
> Similar approach can be seen now with respect to Syria. Normally, any armed groups that try to overthrow an internationally recognized nation would be labelled as "terrorists."
> 
> If these militia is imported from other countries, then it would considered an act of war and required legitimate self-defence.
> 
> But the US regime and its media have continuously painted the Syrian armed groups (domestic and foreign) as if they held some legitimacy. Hillary Clinton even tried twice to pass a resolution to punish Syria for its self-defence.
> 
> Now I would not wish anything like what happens in Syria to any other nation, including the US, but just keep in mind how many countries US invaded and how many people (civilians included) it killed because some mostly Saudi young men hijacked some planes and killed few thousands people.
> 
> How many countries would Syria seek to attack legitimately (if it had the required national power) on the basis of state and non-state backed terrorism committed against itself?
> 
> But you have the US information apparatus working in tandem and setting up a discourse because they have the strategic reach and repetitive power.
> 
> The way they approach Xinjiang is, in essence, not different from the way they approach other crises.
> 
> It is natural they would act in that way. What is significant is to set up our own discourse. Like Russia does.
> 
> Whoever controls the discourse, controls the events.
> 
> @Economic superpower



Man if I could I would give you a positive rating for this post.

You are so correct.

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## Jlaw

Dungeness said:


> Read the comments section, the readers' reaction may just surprise you.
> 
> Chinese police shoot dead 28 from 'terrorist group' - Yahoo News


The only news about China in Yahoo that are more positive than negative comments is when China shoots the terrorists. Common people in the west are tired of their government inviting the "trojan horse" into their country thus they rant against the stupid policies of their own government

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## Zsari

jhungary said:


> Are you blinded? Or have some kind of comprehension problem?
> 
> *WASHINGTON POST*
> 
> *Terrorist attack* on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30
> Terrorist attack on market in China’s restive Xinjiang region kills more than 30 - The Washington Post
> 
> It already said Terrorist attack on the title, what more do you want?
> 
> *BBC*
> 
> Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region
> Urumqi attack kills 31 in China's Xinjiang region - BBC News
> 
> 
> Again, it said on the article itself it WAS a terrorist attack.
> 
> *CNN
> 
> Terrorist attack* kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region
> Terrorist attack kills dozens in China's tense Xinjiang region - CNN.com
> 
> Again, they already said it was a terrorist attack in the title, what more do you want?
> 
> Associated Press
> 31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack
> 31 killed, 90-plus injured in Xinjiang attack - Yahoo News#
> 
> 
> 
> Basically the same piece of news on BBC, again, the article mentioned it was a Terrorist attack.
> 
> And also, calling them activist does not mean they are not terrorist, in the US, Domestic Terrorist Group are seldom called terrorist to begin with. They are
> 
> *White Supremacist* *
> Anarchist
> Nationalist
> Militant and also
> Activists
> 
> British Islamist activists detained in Hungary to be deported to UK | World news | The Guardian
> *
> 
> Just because they don't use the word "terrorist" that does not mean they are not terrorist. So, if an American News Network calling an IRA operative *an Ireland Nationalist (Which by the way, is their official title)* instead of terrorist on a bombing in Belfast, UK, then did the US "justified" the bombing?? Your logic is funny.
> 
> The word terrorist have a very board meaning, in fact, activists is called exclusively for eco and political/religious terrorist because both were activists in title..


 
I guess some people just reads the title. I'm not talking about the use of the term "terrorist" or "activist", but rather reciting the statement from terrorist group justifying their action under the guise of "Uyghur activists". Per your example, a comparable report would contain statement from "Irish activist" (Sinn Fein) criticizing UK policy as the cause of these attack.

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## third eye

Chinese forces 'used flamethrowers' in Xinjiang operation - BBC News






Chinese authorities say they are battling "foreign terrorists" in Xinjiang

A Chinese military newspaper has given details of a raid in Xinjiang province against suspected militants.

The People's Liberation Army Daily said that, at one point, flamethrowers were used to flush out militants hiding in a cave, who were then shot.

It said they were behind a "brutal" attack on the public, which may refer to an attack on a mine in September in which officials said 16 people died.

Xinjiang, often hit by unrest, is home to a Uighur ethnic minority.

The PLA Daily said special forces tracked the militants to their mountain hideout "like eagles discovering their prey".

Police tried to drive the suspects out with tear gas and stun grenades, before an officer ordered the use of flamethrowers, the article said.

China strictly controls media access to Xinjiang so reports are difficult to verify.

It is thought the latest report may refer to militants linked to the incident at the Sogan colliery in Asku on 18 September.

The US government-funded Radio Free Asia (RFA) was the first to report the attack and said at least 50 people were killed.

Earlier this month, RFA said 17 suspects from three families, including women and children, had been killed in the police operation in response to the mine attack.

China says "foreign terrorists" are behind the violence in the region. Hundreds of people have died in attacks over the past three years.

Ethnic Uighurs, who are mostly Muslim, say Beijing's repression of their religious and cultural customs is provoking the violence.

*Uighurs and Xinjiang*


Uighurs are ethnically Turkic Muslims
They make up about 45% of the region's population; 40% are Han Chinese
China re-established control in 1949 after crushing short-lived state of East Turkestan
Since then, there has been large-scale immigration of Han Chinese
Uighurs fear erosion of traditional culture
Who are the Uighurs?


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## jhungary

Zsari said:


> I guess some people just reads the title. I'm not talking about the use of the term "terrorist" or "activist", but *rather reciting the statement from terrorist group justifying their action under the guise of "Uyghur activists".* Per your example, a comparable report would contain statement from "Irish activist" (Sinn Fein) criticizing UK policy as the cause of these attack.



I think you misunderstand the stance of the media, as I said Media should and at most time, present a neutral and balanced view, Viewer, like you and me, can be and most of the time, indeed Biased, but the news report should report as it is. The part of the story is what they were behind the attack. And the problem, as you see is that Since those people instigated the attack, they should be censored or editorialized and portray them as terrorist. But then if the news media, or any news media do that, then it would not be a preserved and balanced view

Indeed, this is how CNN covered IRA bombing by Sinn Fein Leader Gerry Adams bombing on London, as it is. CNN quote Gerry saying he blame the UK government (Particular John Major) for not bringing talks back to the table before IRA totally disarmed first, which IRA refused but he denied he have advance knowledge of the attack.

CNN - IRA claims responsibility for London bombing - Feb. 10, 1996

SO, by quoting the reason directly what it is, did CNN "justified" the attack on London?

And finally, it's all about word and the use of it. You are pissed at the Western Media for not portraying those Xinjiang separatist as terrorist. I can tell you this, they would never be a "terrorist" or "terrorist group" in western media, not because of they are biased, but simply because the word "Terrorist" or "terrorist Group" are specifically defined in US to use for groups that attack on US interest, foreign and domestic to alter the US Governmental Policy. You will not see any of Western Media calling any domestic group as "terrorist group" unless they cross path with US interest. Xinjiang separatist does not fit the bill. That's why those Xinjiang separatist will always be called separatist or activist

However, not calling one terrorist group is one thing, that does not mean they are justified by the media, activist and separatist can also launch terror attack you know.


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## bobsm

*Double standard on terrorism is symptomatic of West's view*

On Nov 18, the French magazine Le Nouvel Observateur (The New Observer) published an article on its website authored by staff writer Ursula Gauthier, which blamed the Chinese government's policies in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region for terrorist attacks in China. That's a typical example of the West's double standard, which is hindering global efforts to fight terrorism, says an editorial in the Chinese edition of Global Times:

Gauthier's article claims that Muslim names are forbidden in Xinjiang and ethnic Uygur government staff must eat in public during Ramadan. 

However, Such claims are refuted by Uygurs as nothing but lies.

After the terrorist attack in Paris on Nov 13 that claimed at least 132 lives, the Chinese government condemned terrorism and expressed its sympathy for the French people. Many Chinese people also expressed their condolences to the victims. 

Guathier has noticed these because she includes them in her article, but she does not show any sympathy for the victims of the terrorist attacks in China.

It is shocking that she holds such deeply rooted prejudice against China. For her, it seems that every person should serve her politics.

She forgets that people all over the world have the same right to protect themselves from being killed for no reason. For her, it is evil to kill civilians in France, while it is "understandable" to kill civilians in China. She uses a different yardstick when terrorists kill innocent civilians in China.

In her view, only civilians killed by terrorists in the West deserve sympathy, but not the Chinese civilians who suffer the same fate. How ridiculous and absurd such an attitude is.

Being politically radical has so blinded some Western journalists such as Gauthier that they lose their common sense. They only know Western standards of "human rights". For that political purpose they dare to challenge the basic human norm that the killing of innocent civilians is a crime.

That hurts Chinese people. At a time when Chinese media and Chinese people had condemned the Paris attack and extended their support to the French people, it is offensive for the French magazine to publish such an article.

It is time the French media rethink such an ridiculous and unreasonable attitude. The Chinese people are friendly to the French people, who should have no reason to return evil for good. They should join hands in fighting terrorism.

Double standard on terrorism is symptomatic of West's view - People's Daily Online

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## Salza

Good job.

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## Hamartia Antidote

*One* French magazine publishes an article and it's lumped it into a generic "West" viewpoint.


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## bobsm

Hamartia Antidote said:


> *One* French magazine publishes an article and it's lumped it into a generic "West" viewpoint.



Right, like the many western reports proclaiming Chinese govt's official positions, based only on one newspaper, blog, or an "official mouthpiece".

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## Hamartia Antidote

bobsm said:


> Right, like the many western reports proclaiming Chinese govt's official positions, based only on one newspaper, blog, or an "official mouthpiece".



Well Xinhua and People's Daily are state-run so you'd expect them to be accurate.

Xinhiua is pretty much the only place quoted these days.

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## bobsm

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Well Xinhua and People's Daily are state-run so you'd expect them to be accurate.



Not necessarily, but most of the time they are pretty accurate. But what about the many western reports sourced from blogs, opinion pieces, anonymous or "official" govt workers, that are lumped together with official govt positions ?

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## Hamartia Antidote

bobsm said:


> Not necessarily, but most of the time they are pretty accurate. But what about the many western reports sourced from blogs, opinion pieces, anonymous or "official" govt workers, that are lumped together with official govt positions ?



Want to show some examples.....I'd like to see some of mainstream western newspapers quoting some obscure Chinese blog/editorial.

If you can't list a bunch I'd say you are being paranoid and making generalizations.

Tick tock tick tock.... I can tell this is going to be a LONG wait. We all await your answer...


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## Azad-Kashmiri

third eye said:


> Chinese authorities say they are battling "foreign terrorists" in Xinjiang



I guess the same ''foreign terrorists'' they were forcefully stopping from fasting in the month of ramadhan and breaking their fasts with water. In fact they banned fasting even India has never done this. Forcefully cutting beards and stopping women from wearing veils. Speaks volumes! 

China bans Ramadan fasting in mainly Muslim region - Al Jazeera English

Where are the Pakistani brothers??? If this was done by Indians we would have had a horde of people. Shame on you!


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## Hamartia Antidote

Azad-Kashmiri said:


> I guess the same ''foreign terrorists'' they were forcefully stopping from fasting in the month of ramadhan and breaking their fasts with water. In fact they banned fasting even India has never done this. Forcefully cutting beards and stopping women from wearing veils. Speaks volumes!
> 
> China bans Ramadan fasting in mainly Muslim region - Al Jazeera English
> 
> Where are the Pakistani brothers??? If this was done by Indians we would have had a horde of people. Shame on you!



Remember only the "West" has double standards...everybody else are angels.

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## Beast

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Remember only the "West" has double standards...everybody else are angels.


Precisely, the evil west. 






Take note of last min where the stupid woman is caught lying and force to correct her stance. That woman represent the spokewoman of USA.

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## Zibago

Metal Slug?


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## Dungeness

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Remember only the "West" has double standards...everybody else are angels.




You are misinformed, again it shows the disadvantage of knowing only English. The people who were regulated during Ramadan were Communist Party Members. In China, one can't not be CPC member at the same time openly declares he has a religious faith. This is either/or issue. You just can not have both ways. Remember, China is officially a atheist country.

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## Azad-Kashmiri

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Remember only the "West" has double standards...everybody else are angels.



Christendom has humanity. It's unfortunate the people don't represent the gormant in these times. When Islam first came and the pagans started to attack the Muslims, the Prophet Muhammad (as'salathu was'salaam) sent his companions to Abyssinia and who was a just Christian King for refuge. This is why Muslims in history have sort refuge in Christendom.



Beast said:


> Precisely, the evil west.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Take note of last min where the stupid woman is caught lying and force to correct her stance. That woman represent is the spokewoman of USA.



@anon45 Please respond as I remember you said it's propaganda. She is caught blatantly lying and represents the US gormant.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Dungeness said:


> You are misinformed, again it shows the disadvantage of knowing only English. The people who were regulated during Ramadan were Communist Party Members. In China, one can't not be CPC members at the same time openly declare you have religious faith. This is either/or issue. Remember, China is officially a atheist country.



I never said his insinuation was correct. I said only the West has double standards so there is no use in making any other argument to the contrary since no one will back you up.


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## Beast

Azad-Kashmiri said:


> Christendom has humanity. It's unfortunate the people don't represent the gormant in these times. When Islam first came and the pagans started to attack the Muslims, the Prophet Muhammad (as'salathu was'salaam) sent his companions to Abyssinia and who was a just Christian King for refuge. This is why Muslims in history have sort refuge in Christendom.
> 
> 
> 
> @anon45 Please respond as I remember you said it's propaganda. She is caught blatantly lying and represents the US gormant.



He is too ashamed to reply. American is a bunch of liars. From Iraq WMD, to Gaddaffi threat and now to Syria,Russia bomb hospital and children only but no ISIS, how much death and destruction has US created?

US is the root of World Evil.

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## bobsm

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Want to show some examples.....I'd like to see some of mainstream western newspapers quoting some obscure Chinese blog/editorial.
> 
> If you can't list a bunch I'd say you are being paranoid and making generalizations.



Obscure? Who mentioned that?

US-China war 'inevitable' unless Washington drops demands over South China Sea - Telegraph



> Global Times, a tabloid newspaper run by the Communist Party, said that China might have to “accept” there would be conflict with the United States. “If the United States’ bottom line is that China has to halt its activities, then a US-China war is inevitable in the South China Sea”, said the paper,* which is often seen as a mouth-piece of hardline nationalists in the government in Beijing*.



By simply mentioning the quoted part, the telegraph is linking the GT's opinion with the govt's.

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## Dungeness

Hamartia Antidote said:


> *One* French magazine publishes an article and it's lumped it into a generic "West" viewpoint.




I think it is not about ONE French magazine, every mainstream media I read would add a quotation mark on the word TERRORISTS if the attack happens in China. If it is not double standard, what it is?

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## Levina

The Chinese have their way of conducting operations. I'm sure their policies are working well because China appears to be more peaceful compared to democratic Britain. 
I want India to walk in China's footsteps, may be that will help curb intolerance in India.

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## Hamartia Antidote

bobsm said:


> Obscure? Who mentioned that?
> 
> US-China war 'inevitable' unless Washington drops demands over South China Sea - Telegraph
> 
> 
> 
> By simply mentioning the quoted part, the telegraph is linking the GT's opinion with the govt's.



Global Times, a tabloid newspaper run by the Communist Party,

I think that sums things up.
Best Tabloid Headlines Ever


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## TaiShang

I guess this sums things up about the Western media:

WSJ: 

_“Among seven areas that Syrian state media listed as targets of Russian strikes, only one—an area east of the town of Salamiyah in Hama province—has a known presence of Islamic State fighters. The other areas listed are largely dominated by *moderate rebel factions or Islamist groups, such as Ahrar al-Sham and the al Qaeda-affiliated Nusra Front.”*_

So, do not anticipate anything more from them. And this is not surprising at all. They are the mouthpieces of the regime they represent even though they are privately held.

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## bobsm

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Global Times, *a tabloid newspaper* run by the Communist Party,
> 
> I think that sums things up.



Exactly. The telegraph used the "tabloid" source to imply an ultimatum was given by the Chinese govt to the US govt.

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## third eye

Azad-Kashmiri said:


> I guess the same ''foreign terrorists'' they were forcefully stopping from fasting in the month of ramadhan and breaking their fasts with water. I*n fact they banned fasting even India has never done this. Forcefully cutting beards and stopping women from wearing veils. Speaks volumes! *
> 
> China bans Ramadan fasting in mainly Muslim region - Al Jazeera English
> 
> *Where are the Pakistani brothers??? If this was done by Indians we would have had a horde of people. Shame on you!*



Not bad, the 8th post and the inevitable reference to India.

' Pakistani brothers' will have nothing to say to an ' all weather' friend till the weather changes & the weather is changing the world over.

A look at the map in the OP will show how vulnerable China is going to be once the CPEC opens up. They will get a lot more than just goods from Gwadar.

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## Hamartia Antidote

TaiShang said:


> I guess this sums things up about the Western media:
> 
> WSJ:
> 
> _“Among seven areas that Syrian state media listed as targets of Russian strikes, only one—an area east of the town of Salamiyah in Hama province—has a known presence of Islamic State fighters. The other areas listed are largely dominated by *moderate rebel factions or Islamist groups, such as Ahrar al-Sham and the al Qaeda-affiliated Nusra Front.”*_
> 
> So, do not anticipate anything more from them. And this is not surprising at all. They are the mouthpieces of the regime they represent even though they are privately held.



09/30/2015
Russia Approves Use of Armed Forces in Syria
"“We’re talking exclusively about operations of Russia’s Air Force, as our president has already said, the use of armed forces on the ground theater of military operations is excluded. The military goal of the operations is exclusively air *support of the Syrian government forces in their fight against the Islamic State*,” Ivanov said."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After saying that they don't even bomb them.

Jimmy Carter Offers Help for Russia’s Bombing Campaign in Syria - Washington Free Beacon
"Former President Jimmy Carter said recently that he provided maps of Islamic State positions in Syria to the Russian embassy in Washington,"


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## TaiShang

Beast said:


> He is too ashamed to reply. American is a bunch of liars. From Iraq WMD, to Gaddaffi threat and now to Syria,Russia bomb hospital and children only but no ISIS, how much death and destruction has US created?
> 
> US is the root of World Evil.



And not just that. 

The regime-backed US media even twists stories when it is required for the state interests. 

Just take a look at this:

A NEW LOW: US TV (PBS) Depicts Russian ISIS Tanker Strikes as American

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## Beast

TaiShang said:


> And not just that.
> 
> The regime-backed US media even twists stories when it is required for the state interests.
> 
> Just take a look at this:
> 
> A NEW LOW: US TV (PBS) Depicts Russian ISIS Tanker Strikes as American



All American shall be ashamed of their lying nature. It looks like in their blood.

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## TaiShang

Beast said:


> All American shall be ashamed of their lying nature. It looks like in their blood.



I guess these are usual reactions of a world hegemon that is so used to defy international law and customs, and interpret them as they fit to its own interests, but now is facing certain repercussions and resistance to its free rein.

They can handle disobey like they did with Saddam, Gaddafi or any democratically elected governments of Latin America etc. But, they know find out they can handle equal or superior powers like Russia and China.

Hence the long established facade of Western freedom, media independence, respect for international law and regulations is falling down.

A reactionary turns fascist when it faces resistance and blowback. That's a universal rule from the 1940s Europe to the 1960s Latin America.

This is not about peoples, I believe. This is about regimes. Peoples are often and in majority the victims of hegemonic policies. So, it is perhaps better to confine our debate to the regimes and their public figureheads, rather than peoples and their customs.

***

As for Russian air strikes in Syria, they are doing an excellent job.

Russian airstrikes destroy 472 terrorist targets in Syria in 48 hours, 1,000 oil tankers in 5 days — RT News

Russia targets *terrorists *with no quotation marks.

US has so far been soft on ISIS (contain it rather than destroy) and extremely friendly to non-ISIS terrorists, as the WSJ article I quoted above demonstrates.

The Western media is one big mouth that tries to save the moderate terrorists from the wrath of Putin. Hence they put up maps like this:





This is not entirely incorrect. Russia targets ISIS where it is the most vulnerable and the target is valuable.

For example, Russia destroyed about 1000 oil tankers carrying ISIS oil to Turkey and other areas. US did not target them. US targeted refineries which are the properties of the Syrian government.

ISIS often repaired the minimal damage and continued operations. Hence the oil money continued to flow. This is the story of the past one-two years.

Russia intensifies attacks on the West of Euphrates. This border area are held by US-Turkey-Qatar supporter cocktail of terrorists, mostly foreign. This area is the lifeline of ISIS. Because East of Euphrates is already under Kurdish control.

Russia knows, cut the ISIS supply lines from the border areas, and then slowly slaughter them inside Syria through merciless militia of Hezbollah and other fighters.

Again, Russia targets *terrorists *regardless of their color.

US targets "terrorists," having classified them according to their moderation, that is, the length of their beard, deng deng.

The above map, thus, reflects the thinking of the US regime and its allies. The US media mouthpieces parrot the state line.

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## Dungeness

third eye said:


> Not bad, the 8th post and the inevitable reference to India.
> 
> ' Pakistani brothers' will have nothing to say to an ' all weather' friend till the weather changes & the weather is changing the world over.
> 
> A look at the map in the OP will show how vulnerable China is going to be once the CPEC opens up. They will get a lot more than just goods from Gwadar.



He may have been misinformed. The so called "ban" is not meant for Muslin general public, it was meant for Communist Party Members. Once a person becomes CPC member, he has to give up his religious freedom, and it is a privileged to be a CPC member. Officially, communism is THE faith for all CPC members, I hope our Pakistan friends can understand this point.

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## Hamartia Antidote

TaiShang said:


> And not just that.
> 
> The regime-backed US media even twists stories when it is required for the state interests.
> 
> Just take a look at this:
> 
> A NEW LOW: US TV (PBS) Depicts Russian ISIS Tanker Strikes as American



Did you watch the whole video as to why the US hasn't been bombing the trucks? The people driving the trucks are not ISIS. They are local civilians. ISIS isn't smuggling the oil. They are selling it for a discount right at the pump to locals who then in turn look for buyers. The US has been bombing the pumps and not the trucks.

This is like how gasoline was shipped to Afghanistan through Pakistan using Pakistani civilian drivers. They were just trying to make a living. They could care less about NATO or the Taliban.


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## TaiShang

It is interesting that the US regime mouthpiece attempts to steal the success of Russian airforce in destroying trucks that provides what the IS needs most: Money.

And recently, US is also all about hitting the oil tankers. LOL.

So much for humanism. 

_The U.S. military recently claimed to have hit Islamic State oil tankers in Syria. This only after Putin embarrassed Obama at the G-20 meeting in Turkey._

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## silverox

*it is a new BBC misleading news, in chinese, it is said, the terrorist hide in a mountain cave, police couldnt drive them out,so police use flamethrowers to scare them out **,only once,the terrorist had to fled off the cave and raid police with big knife,police had to shot them all to die.*
*but, in the BBC style misleading news,u only get a conclusion: chinese police use flamethrowers to burn living peoples*

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## Hamartia Antidote

silverox said:


> *it is a new BBC misleading news, in chinese, it is said, the terrorist hide in a mountain cave, police couldnt drive them out,so police use flamethrowers to scare them out **,only once,the terrorist had to fled off the cave and raid police with big knife,police had to shot them all to die.*
> *but, in the BBC style misleading news,u only get a conclusion: chinese police use flamethrowers to burn living peoples*



So why do the police have flamethrowers? Do they burn books with them?


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## Dungeness

Hamartia Antidote said:


> So why do the police have flamethrowers? Do they burn books with them?



Baby toy! See this one:

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## silverox

Hamartia Antidote said:


> So why do the police have flamethrowers? Do they burn books with them?


i am here point out BBC misleading news, i think in non west developing country,such as pakistan,peoples face the same misleading report by west monopoly media

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## Economic superpower

TaiShang said:


> I guess these are usual reactions of a world hegemon that is so used to defy international law and customs, and interpret them as they fit to its own interests, but now is facing certain repercussions and resistance to its free rein.
> 
> They can handle disobey like they did with Saddam, Gaddafi or any democratically elected governments of Latin America etc. But, they know find out they can handle equal or superior powers like Russia and China.
> 
> Hence the long established facade of Western freedom, media independence, respect for international law and regulations is falling down.
> 
> A reactionary turns fascist when it faces resistance and blowback. That's a universal rule from the 1940s Europe to the 1960s Latin America.
> 
> This is not about peoples, I believe. This is about regimes. Peoples are often and in majority the victims of hegemonic policies. So, it is perhaps better to confine our debate to the regimes and their public figureheads, rather than peoples and their customs.
> 
> ***
> 
> As for Russian air strikes in Syria, they are doing an excellent job.
> 
> Russian airstrikes destroy 472 terrorist targets in Syria in 48 hours, 1,000 oil tankers in 5 days — RT News
> 
> Russia targets *terrorists *with no quotation marks.
> 
> US has so far been soft on ISIS (contain it rather than destroy) and extremely friendly to non-ISIS terrorists, as the WSJ article I quoted above demonstrates.
> 
> The Western media is one big mouth that tries to save the moderate terrorists from the wrath of Putin. Hence they put up maps like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not entirely incorrect. Russia targets ISIS where it is the most vulnerable and the target is valuable.
> 
> For example, Russia destroyed about 1000 oil tankers carrying ISIS oil to Turkey and other areas. US did not target them. US targeted refineries which are the properties of the Syrian government.
> 
> ISIS often repaired the minimal damage and continued operations. Hence the oil money continued to flow. This is the story of the past one-two years.
> 
> Russia intensifies attacks on the West of Euphrates. This border area are held by US-Turkey-Qatar supporter cocktail of terrorists, mostly foreign. This area is the lifeline of ISIS. Because East of Euphrates is already under Kurdish control.
> 
> Russia knows, cut the ISIS supply lines from the border areas, and then slowly slaughter them inside Syria through merciless militia of Hezbollah and other fighters.
> 
> Again, Russia targets *terrorists *regardless of their color.
> 
> US targets "terrorists," having classified them according to their moderation, that is, the length of their beard, deng deng.
> 
> The above map, thus, reflects the thinking of the US regime and its allies. The US media mouthpieces parrot the state line.



US is a truly disgusting country that has been supporting terrorists for geopolitical gains.

American regime are scum.

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## Hamartia Antidote

Dungeness said:


> Baby toy! See this one:



yep, they had to give it back
Volusia sheriff fumes over giving up armored carrier | News-JournalOnline.com


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## Nan Yang

Twenty-eight Terrorists Killed in 56-day Hunt in Xinjiang
2015-11-20 11:43:50 Xinhua Web Editor: Qian Shanming

Xinjiang police have succeeded in disbanding a terrorist group after 56 days of fighting and fleeing during a manhunt in the far West Chinese region.

On Sept. 18, a group of armed men attacked a coal mine in Baicheng county of Aksu prefecture, killing 11 civilians, three policemen and two para-police members and injuring 18 others, according to a statement from the publicity department of Xinjiang.

They later escaped into the mountains. Police then began a daily manhunt that involved more than 10,000 citizens and police searching an area of 1,300 square kilometers.

By Nov. 12, 28 members of the group had been killed during back and forth gun fights with police. One surrendered.

The terrorist group was directly guided by an overseas extremists group and led by two local Xinjiang males named Musa Tohniyaz and Mamat Aysa, the statement said, adding the name of the organization cannot be disclosed as investigations are still underway.

"In 2008, members of the group began watching videos containing messages of religious extremism, gradually reinforcing their extreme beliefs," the statement said.

Before they committed the killing, the group contacted overseas extremist organizations six times. They contacted them again for guidance while on the run from police.

"The overseas extremists gave orders and demanded they pledge allegiance," the statement said.

































Source-
China Defense Blog: Photos of the day: PAP's anti-terror operation in Xinjing

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## Azad-Kashmiri

third eye said:


> Not bad, the 8th post and the inevitable reference to India.
> 
> ' Pakistani brothers' will have nothing to say to an ' all weather' friend till the weather changes & the weather is changing the world over.
> 
> A look at the map in the OP will show how vulnerable China is going to be once the CPEC opens up. They will get a lot more than just goods from Gwadar.



I see you Hindus are still whining about CPEC. Trying scaremongering now; cowards that you are. BOO! INDIAN!

What harms CHINA, HARMS US! We will NEVER ALLOW any terrorists to pass through and harm them. CHINA is OUR ALL WEATHER FRIEND! I'm telling you from Islamic scholars who speak HIGHLY of CHINA. We will never ALLOW PAID OR UNPAID DOGS of INDIA TO COME BETWEEN our CHINESE FRIENDS!

My point of posting was to tell our Chinese brothers who have MADE PAKISTAN STRONG is, please brothers the Chinese province will be peaceful if you allow the Muslims to practice their faith.



Dungeness said:


> He may have been misinformed. The so called "ban" is not meant for Muslin general public, it was meant for Communist Party Members. Once a person becomes CPC member, he has to give up his religious freedom, and it is a privileged to be a CPC member. Officially, communism is THE faith for all CPC members, I hope our Pakistan friends can understand this point.



Thank you for clearing this up and, no I was not aware of this.



Beast said:


> He is too ashamed to reply. American is a bunch of liars. From Iraq WMD, to Gaddaffi threat and now to Syria,Russia bomb hospital and children only but no ISIS, how much death and destruction has US created?
> 
> US is the root of World Evil.



It is shocking to see for real, not hear say or alleged ''misinterpretations'', how they blatantly lie. They have no shame! How can anyone trust these people and do business with them? Maybe another WMD scenario, or their terrorists are due to ''liberate'' (destroy) another country, or bring in ''democracy'' (puppet nation).

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## kadamba-warrior

bobsm said:


> *Double standard on terrorism is symptomatic of West's view*
> 
> On Nov 18, the French magazine Le Nouvel Observateur (The New Observer) published an article on its website authored by staff writer Ursula Gauthier, which blamed the Chinese government's policies in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region for terrorist attacks in China. That's a typical example of the West's double standard, which is hindering global efforts to fight terrorism, says an editorial in the Chinese edition of Global Times:
> 
> Gauthier's article claims that Muslim names are forbidden in Xinjiang and ethnic Uygur government staff must eat in public during Ramadan.
> 
> However, Such claims are refuted by Uygurs as nothing but lies.
> 
> After the terrorist attack in Paris on Nov 13 that claimed at least 132 lives, the Chinese government condemned terrorism and expressed its sympathy for the French people. Many Chinese people also expressed their condolences to the victims.
> 
> Guathier has noticed these because she includes them in her article, but she does not show any sympathy for the victims of the terrorist attacks in China.
> 
> It is shocking that she holds such deeply rooted prejudice against China. For her, it seems that every person should serve her politics.
> 
> She forgets that people all over the world have the same right to protect themselves from being killed for no reason. For her, it is evil to kill civilians in France, while it is "understandable" to kill civilians in China. She uses a different yardstick when terrorists kill innocent civilians in China.
> 
> In her view, only civilians killed by terrorists in the West deserve sympathy, but not the Chinese civilians who suffer the same fate. How ridiculous and absurd such an attitude is.
> 
> Being politically radical has so blinded some Western journalists such as Gauthier that they lose their common sense. They only know Western standards of "human rights". For that political purpose they dare to challenge the basic human norm that the killing of innocent civilians is a crime.
> 
> That hurts Chinese people. At a time when Chinese media and Chinese people had condemned the Paris attack and extended their support to the French people, it is offensive for the French magazine to publish such an article.
> 
> It is time the French media rethink such an ridiculous and unreasonable attitude. The Chinese people are friendly to the French people, who should have no reason to return evil for good. They should join hands in fighting terrorism.
> 
> Double standard on terrorism is symptomatic of West's view - People's Daily Online





Economic superpower said:


> US is a truly disgusting country that has been supporting terrorists for geopolitical gains.
> 
> American regime are scum.



Huh! Isn't that rich coming from China?

China *directly* supports UN Designated terror outfits based in Pakistan by cockblocking any resolutions condemning them on the flimsiest of grounds but then has the gumption to question others' sincerity when it comes to fighting terror?

More people died in Mumbai in 2008 than in France and the culprits are roaming freely in Pakistan spewing venom against India in public rallies - all thanks to CHINA!


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## Economic superpower

kadamba-warrior said:


> Huh! Isn't that rich coming from China?
> 
> China *directly* supports UN Designated terror outfits based in Pakistan by cockblocking any resolutions condemning them on the flimsiest of grounds but then has the gumption to question others' sincerity when it comes to fighting terror?
> 
> More people died in Mumbai in 2008 than in France and the culprits are roaming freely in Pakistan spewing venom against India in public rallies - all thanks to CHINA!



The resolution had nothing to do with fighting terror, its to do with political rivalry with Pakistan.

If it was legitimately about fighting terror, China would gladly support it, but China knew the resolution was Indian propaganda against Pakistan.

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## rcrmj

zenmastera said:


> No surprise, robotic and disgusting nation.
> Even before of B.C they are doing massacre all time.


turks talking about massacre``` can you be more convincing?

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## dichoi

......

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## TaiShang

Economic superpower said:


> US is a truly disgusting country that has been supporting terrorists for geopolitical gains.
> 
> American regime are scum.



They (the US regime) never understand until the scorpion they play with turns back and bite the sympathetic hand. The proper response to these is to get stronger and set out our alternative paradigm. 



Nan Yang said:


> Twenty-eight Terrorists Killed in 56-day Hunt in Xinjiang
> 2015-11-20 11:43:50 Xinhua Web Editor: Qian Shanming
> 
> Xinjiang police have succeeded in disbanding a terrorist group after 56 days of fighting and fleeing during a manhunt in the far West Chinese region.
> 
> On Sept. 18, a group of armed men attacked a coal mine in Baicheng county of Aksu prefecture, killing 11 civilians, three policemen and two para-police members and injuring 18 others, according to a statement from the publicity department of Xinjiang.
> 
> They later escaped into the mountains. Police then began a daily manhunt that involved more than 10,000 citizens and police searching an area of 1,300 square kilometers.
> 
> By Nov. 12, 28 members of the group had been killed during back and forth gun fights with police. One surrendered.
> 
> The terrorist group was directly guided by an overseas extremists group and led by two local Xinjiang males named Musa Tohniyaz and Mamat Aysa, the statement said, adding the name of the organization cannot be disclosed as investigations are still underway.
> 
> "In 2008, members of the group began watching videos containing messages of religious extremism, gradually reinforcing their extreme beliefs," the statement said.
> 
> Before they committed the killing, the group contacted overseas extremist organizations six times. They contacted them again for guidance while on the run from police.
> 
> "The overseas extremists gave orders and demanded they pledge allegiance," the statement said.
> 
> 
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> 
> 
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> 
> Source-
> China Defense Blog: Photos of the day: PAP's anti-terror operation in Xinjing



Good job, boys!

Exterminate the rats!

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## oproh

Westerners and their never ending lies and propaganda.
Anyway, keep up the good work China

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## kadamba-warrior

Economic superpower said:


> The resolution had nothing to do with fighting terror, its to do with political rivalry with Pakistan.
> 
> If it was legitimately about fighting terror, China would gladly support it, but China knew the resolution was Indian propaganda against Pakistan.



So you are accusing UN of lying through the teeth when it designated the terror outfit in its list? Or are you one of those scumbags who claim the Mumbai terror to be an inside job?

You accuse others of supporting terrorism but when it comes to your own actions, you mask it with political rivalry? Do you even realize how hypocritical you sound?

Like I said earlier, you guys have the blood of 170 odd innocent people on your hands! How do you guys even look yourselves in the mirror after single-handedly VETOing the resolutions that could have brought some closure to the families of the victims of that massacre in Mumbai and many others elsewhere?


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## Sanchez

Azad-Kashmiri said:


> I guess the same ''foreign terrorists'' they were forcefully stopping from fasting in the month of ramadhan and breaking their fasts with water. In fact they banned fasting even India has never done this. Forcefully cutting beards and stopping women from wearing veils. Speaks volumes!
> 
> China bans Ramadan fasting in mainly Muslim region - Al Jazeera English
> 
> Where are the Pakistani brothers??? If this was done by Indians we would have had a horde of people. Shame on you!



These are in the Uyghur region only.



zenmastera said:


> No surprise, robotic and disgusting nation.
> Even before of B.C they are doing massacre all time.



You mean Ottoman?

These rats butchered more than 20 miners and murdered 5 police. They deserve a burnout.

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## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> ......


 I am not sure whether the Viet solider still remember the kind of weapon in Sino- Viet war or not.

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## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> I am not sure whether the Viet solider still remember the kind of weapon in Sino- Viet war or not.



I do know that Japan imperial army used first flame thrower in China in WW II. Do you know that ?

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## ahtan_china

dichoi said:


> I do know that Japan imperial army used first flame thrower in China in WW II. Do you know that ?


No. The weapon was invented in WWI. It is famours in WWII during the USA army attacked the JAP army in the island war of Pacific ocean. China PLA got the experience in Korea war and Sino-Viet war.

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## dichoi

ahtan_china said:


> No. The weapon was invented in WWI. It is famours in WWII during the USA army attacked the JAP army in the island war of Pacific ocean. China PLA got the experience in Korea war and Sino-Viet war.



I said about to be used first in China, not where is invented.

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## Jlaw

zenmastera said:


> No surprise, robotic and disgusting nation.
> Even before of B.C they are doing massacre all time.


I am not surprised you are angry. After all Turkey is the biggest terrorist nation in the history of mankind.

It's hard seeing your terrorists trained by your country being roasted like bbq pork.



Beast said:


> He is too ashamed to reply. American is a bunch of liars. From Iraq WMD, to Gaddaffi threat and now to Syria,Russia bomb hospital and children only but no ISIS, how much death and destruction has US created?
> 
> US is the root of World Evil.


I can't blame the US though. As the CEO you need to do whatever to remain number one. Should China get there someday, hope she will do the same.

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## log_ccc

rcrmj said:


> turks talking about massacre``` can you be more convincing?



I think he "accidentally" forgot the Armenians

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## anon45

Azad-Kashmiri said:


> Christendom has humanity. It's unfortunate the people don't represent the gormant in these times. When Islam first came and the pagans started to attack the Muslims, the Prophet Muhammad (as'salathu was'salaam) sent his companions to Abyssinia and who was a just Christian King for refuge. This is why Muslims in history have sort refuge in Christendom.
> 
> 
> 
> @anon45 Please respond as I remember you said it's propaganda. She is caught blatantly lying and represents the US gormant.




again I must stress your use of the word christendom as a descriptor of the west is inaccurate, This isn't the 14th century, religion plays no part.

bellingcat - Fact-Checking Russia’s Claim that It Didn’t Bomb a Hospital in Syria

Anyways not the right topic for this.


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## silverox

Sanchez said:


> These are in the Uyghur region only.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean Ottoman?
> 
> These rats butchered more than 20 miners and murdered 5 police. They deserve a burnout.


china have not ban ramadan,u are idiot.
china only ask public school students and teacher and Civil servants not ramadan, it is the separation of religion and state. it is the foundation of a modern state. china only ban communist ramadan. everybody know communist are atheist party, if u want to join communist party,u should give up religon.


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## terranMarine

dichoi said:


> ......



Does this remind you of napalm?

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## dichoi

terranMarine said:


> Does this remind you of napalm?




Do you think that PLA will used napalm in Xin Jiang ?

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## terranMarine

dichoi said:


> Do you think that PLA will used napalm in Xin Jiang ?


against a small number of terrorists? unlikely because flame throwers will do the trick. But since you enjoy visual stuff i was wondering if those flame throwers made you recall how the US used Napalm in Vietnam.

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## dichoi

terranMarine said:


> against a small number of terrorists? unlikely because flame throwers will do the trick. But since you enjoy visual stuff i was wondering if those flame throwers made you recall how the US used Napalm in Vietnam.



Your troll is off topic. This thread is talking about PLA used flamethrowers in Xin Jiang.

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## Sasquatch

Excellent job all the terrorists were killed, despite the flamethrower being true or not.

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## Wolfwind

dichoi said:


> Your troll is off topic. This thread is talking about PLA used flamethrowers in Xin Jiang.



Dichoi it's "Xinjiang" and not "Xin Jiang". It's Shanghai and not Shang Hai. It's Beijing and not Bei Jing. It's jiaozi not jiao zi. It's mantou not man tou. You're applying a Vietnamese system onto Chinese romanisation. Chinese is not the same as Vietnamese. Stop abusing Chinese language and culture. 



Hu Songshan said:


> Excellent job all the terrorists were killed, despite the flamethrower being true or not.



Too bad, it couldn't be avoided. These terrorists didn't care about the welfare of other people they killed and are planning to kill, so why should we care about their welfare?

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## Misay

Azad-Kashmiri said:


> I guess the same ''foreign terrorists'' they were forcefully stopping from fasting in the month of ramadhan and breaking their fasts with water. In fact they banned fasting even India has never done this. Forcefully cutting beards and stopping women from wearing veils. Speaks volumes!
> 
> China bans Ramadan fasting in mainly Muslim region - Al Jazeera English
> 
> Where are the Pakistani brothers??? If this was done by Indians we would have had a horde of people. Shame on you!


If you believe that a British media, then you must be a fool.The Muslim holy month of Ramadan province grain, government is happy.

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## cirr

These scumbags should be captured alive and then put to death by a thousand cuts.

The members of the extended family of these scumbags should also be closely watched and brought to justice if necessary.

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## dichoi

Wolfwind said:


> Dichoi it's "Xinjiang" and not "Xin Jiang". It's Shanghai and not Shang Hai. It's Beijing and not Bei Jing. It's jiaozi not jiao zi. It's mantou not man tou. You're applying a Vietnamese system onto Chinese romanisation. Chinese is not the same as Vietnamese. Stop abusing Chinese language and culture.



This is written in English manner, but in origin Chinese language there is two Chinese character is written in separately. What is abusing here ? 






Hong Kong English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Wolfwind

dichoi said:


> This is written in English manner, but in origin Chinese language there is two Chinese character is written in separately. What is abusing here ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hong Kong English - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Huh? It's romanised as Xinjiang. Not Xin Jiang.

In Japanese, there are two characters for Tokyo. Do you also spell it To Kyo?
Do you spell Seoul as Seo Ul because there are two characters (서울)?

I notice Vietnamese ALWAYS chop up Chinese nouns, but never for Japanese or Korean, I have no idea why. Do you consider Chinese the same as Vietnamese or something?

Shengjian mantou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jiaozi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia
Zhajiangmian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There is no spacing because the two individual components form a new noun.

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## dichoi

Wolfwind said:


> Huh? It's romanised as Xinjiang. Not Xin Jiang.
> 
> In Japanese, there are two characters for Tokyo. Do you also spell it To Kyo?
> Do you spell Seoul as Seo Ul because there are two characters (서울)?
> 
> I notice Vietnamese ALWAYS chop up Chinese nouns, but never for Japanese or Korean, I have no idea why. Do you consider Chinese the same as Vietnamese or something?
> 
> Shengjian mantou - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Jiaozi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopaedia
> Zhajiangmian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> There is no spacing because the two individual components form a new noun.



Why Chinese in Hong Kong has written "Hong Kong" not Hongkong , is stated in Dictionary ? Does Hong Kong ren min abused Chinese language and Chinese culture as you said when you commented to my post above ?


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## Wolfwind

dichoi said:


> Why Chinese in Hong Kong has written "Hong Kong" not Hongkong , is stated in Dictionary ? Does Hong Kong ren min abused Chinese language and Chinese culture ?



They have their own system of romanisation. And no because they are also Chinese by heritage and culture. You are not so you need to be more respectful when using the languages of other cultures. Thanks.

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## Jason Zhao

Hamartia Antidote said:


> Remember only the "West" has double standards...everybody else are angels.


From the culture.... The angels also belongs to West, wowow, hahahaha. All is west.


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## Chinese-Dragon

dichoi said:


> Why Chinese in Hong Kong has written "Hong Kong" not Hongkong , is stated in Dictionary ? Does Hong Kong ren min abused Chinese language and Chinese culture as you said when you commented to my post above ?



Hong Kong is a Cantonese Romanization of 香港。

Taiwanese also have their own Romanization, they write Xiu as Hsiu for example. It actually sounds the same, just that English doesn't have an equivalent sound to "x" in Chinese so they tried to write it as "hs" which is not wrong either.

In fact the "x" sound is halfway between "sh" and "s". If my Laowai friends ask me how to pronounce Xi Jinping for example, I tell them "x" is like an "s" with your teeth closed, so it sounds a bit like "sh".

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## dichoi

Wolfwind said:


> They have their own system of romanisation. And no because they are also Chinese by heritage and culture. You are not so you need to be more respectful when using the languages of other cultures. Thanks.



Your comment is meaningless to our debate. 

Base on your logic Hong Kong people has written in English "Hong Kong" in separately, is that abusing to the Chinese language and culture or not ? When you are shared same ethnicity, Hong Kong is part of PRC.


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## Wolfwind

dichoi said:


> Your comment is meaningless to our debate.
> 
> Base on your logic Hong Kong people has written in English "Hong Kong" in separately, is that abusing to the Chinese language and culture or not ? When you are shared same ethnicity, Hong Kong is part of PRC.



Well if you stop Vietnamising Chinese like you do then we wouldn't even be talking about this. But it really got on my nerves so I couldn't help but point it out and hope that you stop abusing my culture.

You need to look at the etmyology of "Hong Kong". Research it yourself. As others have pointed out to you, their romanisation is a different system and is based on Cantonese and not Mandarin, I thought that's obvious. And I read that until 1926 it was written as Hongkong.

But I don't know why you're throwing a red herring because I was addressing your abuse of Chinese culture by chopping everything up which Vietnamese always do.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang massive manhunt for terrorists

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## Styx

eh, what's this.. was there another jihadi incident ? 

good luck to the PLA, find them, destroy them.

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## oproh

Best of luck to our Chinese brothers, spare no terrorists.

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## Beidou2020

Lets continue to have special relationship with Turkey.

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## beijingwalker

Geralt said:


> eh, what's this.. was there another jihadi incident ?
> 
> good luck to the PLA, find them, destroy them.



Hunting for the September coal mine attack terrorists. They all have been destroyed.

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## TaiShang

Beidou2020 said:


> Lets continue to have special relationship with Turkey.



Irony, brother, irony. I guess China is very conservative to establish special relationships (in the positive sense). I would say, Russia must be further elevated as a strategic partner. And as an economic partner, China should seek further interaction with Northeast Asia.

If I am a statesman, my benchmark to set up special relationship is whether the partner has a secular culture or not.

I do not want to deal with religious nut-jobs and ethnic zealots. People should decide for themselves where Turkey falls on the scale.



beijingwalker said:


> Hunting for the September coal mine attack terrorists. They all have been destroyed.



Good news. I guess China has just announced an upgrade plan in anti-terrorism policy.

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## mpk1988

TaiShang said:


> Irony, brother, irony. I guess China is very conservative to establish special relationships (in the positive sense). I would say, Russia must be further elevated as a strategic partner. And as an economic partner, Chine should seek further interaction with Northeast Asia.
> 
> If I am a statesman, my benchmark to set up special relationship is whether the partner has a secular culture or not.
> 
> I do not want to deal with religious nut-jobs and ethnic zealots. People should decide for themselves where Turkey falls on the scale.
> 
> 
> 
> Good news. I guess China has just announced an upgrade plan in anti-terrorism policy.



You know which countries will be your best for anti-terror operations and what to monitor etc. Unfortunately, I feel the paranoia problem with you guys and imperialistic aspirations will fudge the vision and views of your Govt. It's akin to something that plagued the Big Chinese empires in history.


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## kadamba-warrior

TaiShang said:


> If I am a statesman, my benchmark to set up special relationship is whether the partner has a secular culture or not.
> 
> I do not want to deal with religious nut-jobs and ethnic zealots. People should decide for themselves where Turkey falls on the scale.



Just out of curiosity, how about Islamic Republic of Pakistan and where does it "fall on this scale"?


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## saiyan0321

Good.. Slay them all. Those that think killing innocent people are pathetic and cowardly. China has been very proactive in tackling the Islamic state of Turkestan movement in Xinjiang but they are still around.... 

This further enforces the narrative that we claim that terrorism doesn't go away in a day. Even after surgical operation they still linger. The battle is against ideology and when you destroy that then you destroy the terrorism.

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## TaiShang

kadamba-warrior said:


> Just out of curiosity, how about Islamic Republic of Pakistan and where does it "fall on this scale"?



My statement covers all that fits the bill although I would not like to give out names. In the war against religious and ethnic radicalism, I guess Pakistan, India, China, Russia and all stakeholders must work together regardless of disputes on other realms. 



saiyan0321 said:


> Good.. Slay them all. Those that think killing innocent people are pathetic and cowardly. China has been very proactive in tackling the Islamic state of Turkestan movement in Xinjiang but they are still around....
> 
> This further enforces the narrative that we claim that terrorism doesn't go away in a day. Even after surgical operation they still linger. The battle is against ideology and when you destroy that then you destroy the terrorism.



Indeed, destroying the ideology is the most significant mission, which requires long-term planning and execution in a vast areas of education, language and popular culture. 

The most important task is to ensure that the new generations internalizes secularism as a benchmark for civility. They should innately be able to separate private spiritual life from public life where economic and social interactions prevail.



mpk1988 said:


> You know which countries will be your best for anti-terror operations and what to monitor etc. Unfortunately, I feel the paranoia problem with you guys and imperialistic aspirations will fudge the vision and views of your Govt. It's akin to something that plagued the Big Chinese empires in history.



Stay focused on your own problems, Indian.

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## mpk1988

Place Of Space said:


> Seems you have some valuable suggestions of anti-terror. I am all ears.



I was just saying that the imperialist ambitions and paranoia earlier Chinese empires had or the present day Govt has shouldn't cloud the views and actions while fighting against terrorism. 
A strong anti-terror coalition with information sharing etc could benefit east and south-east asia. Unfortunately, I believe that the earlier stated reasons may prevent this from happening. That's all.


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## Place Of Space

mpk1988 said:


> I was just saying that the imperialist ambitions and paranoia earlier Chinese empires had or the present day Govt has shouldn't cloud the views and actions while fighting against terrorism.
> A strong anti-terror coalition with information sharing etc could benefit east and south-east asia. Unfortunately, I believe that the earlier stated reasons may prevent this from happening. That's all.



The Chinese govt try some weird rules to avoid racism, you know. Chinese laws want to respect all minorites, even sometimes "protect" their illegality such a steal, bustup, fraud, This is the problem. And the troublesome thing is that we can't paint all Chinese muslims as terrorists, though all terroristm came from them. If the govt don't cloud some views and actions, there would be a strong social racism against muslims. In Russia, I watch the video the majority in public siege and beat the Chechnia guys, the police just stand by, don't stop it. We have to avoid such thing happening in China.

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## mpk1988

Place Of Space said:


> The Chinese govt try some weird rules to avoid racism, you know. Chinese laws want to respect all minorites, even sometimes "protect" their illegality such a steal, bustup, fraud, This is the problem. And the troublesome thing is that we can't paint all Chinese muslims as terrorists, though all terroristm came from them. If the govt don't cloud some views and actions, there would be a strong social racism against muslims. In Russia, I watch the video the majority in public siege and beat the Chechnia guys, the police just stand by, don't stop it. We have to avoid such thing happening in China.



That is true. It is very hard to separate and at the same time also not offend. The only way out of this is by having Govt approved Mosques and National control over all religious activities, including appointment of preachers. 

I think there should also be a close look into travel itinerary of many people and this is where intelligence sharing can help. Maybe some people go outside, get radicalised and come back to the country to spread mischief. It's easily happened to countless people in India. 

This is a problem that should be nipped off in the bud and China will have support from almost everyone in the world to do that. You can of-course expect the usual rambling from some human right idiots and the U. S (obvious), but that's just mostly nonsense.


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## Place Of Space

mpk1988 said:


> That is true. It is very hard to separate and at the same time also not offend. The only way out of this is by having Govt approved Mosques and National control over all religious activities, including appointment of preachers.
> 
> I think there should also be a close look into travel itinerary of many people and this is where intelligence sharing can help. Maybe some people go outside, get radicalised and come back to the country to spread mischief. It's easily happened to countless people in India.
> 
> This is a problem that should be nipped off in the bud and China will have support from almost everyone in the world to do that. You can of-course expect the usual rambling from some human right idiots and the U. S (obvious), but that's just mostly nonsense.



This is international challenge. And nowadays it's internet era. We don't even need to go out of door to get radicalised if we have interests. I think the govt is still very rational and want to make the thing in control when it happens in certain small area. You know, in my all life, so far, I have not come across with more than 6 muslims. The situation is not as serious as you thought of.

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## beijingwalker

Beautiful China-Pakistan border village in Xinjiang

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## beijingwalker

*This town borders Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afhanistan*







This region is so so close to Kabul, Islamabad and New Dehli . so so far away from Beijing.

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## oproh

Meeting point of civilizations, you can easily meet nice people from different countries.

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## TaiShang

*Wanda to build 3.5-bln-yuan shopping complex in Xinjiang*
December 19, 2015

Wanda Group will build a shopping complex in downtown Urumqi, capital of west China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, it announced on Friday.

The shopping complex, with an investment of 3.5 billion yuan (540 million U.S. dollars), will be developed in partnership with Urumqi-based Doowin Group and is expected to open for business in 2017.

*The complex will feature a shopping mall, IMAX cinemas and restaurants. More than 50 international retailers including Uniqlo, Watsons, Starbucks and McDonald's will have shops in the complex, 30 of which will be their first outlets in Xinjiang, according to Doowin.*

The new shopping complex marks Wanda's continued expansion into Xinjiang after investing 10 billion yuan last year to develop a complex of hotels, shopping malls and other entertainment venues in Urumqi Economic and Technological Development Zone.

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## AndrewJin

I have been long anticipating a trip on China-Pakistan friendship highway.

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## Sommer

beijingwalker said:


> *This town borders Pakistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Afhanistan*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This region is so so close to Kabul, Islamabad and New Dehli . so so far away from Beijing.


a little change to your map. If you want, you can use this one.

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## beijingwalker

Free school bus rides for Xinjiang students

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## beijingwalker

The video shows how much the local people hate those terrorists and most police died from fighting terrorists were ethnic Uyghur officers.

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## beijingwalker

*China says extremism losing grip in restless Xinjiang*
BEIJING
The religious atmosphere in China's violence-prone far western region of Xinjiang became markedly less radical last year and the government was broadly successful in maintaining stability, the top official there was quoted as saying on Friday.

China says extremism losing grip in restless Xinjiang| Reuters

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> *China says extremism losing grip in restless Xinjiang*
> BEIJING
> The religious atmosphere in China's violence-prone far western region of Xinjiang became markedly less radical last year and the government was broadly successful in maintaining stability, the top official there was quoted as saying on Friday.
> 
> China says extremism losing grip in restless Xinjiang| Reuters



Secularism is the key.

East Asian culture is deeply secular; what China needs to do is simply to teach the younger generations a secular lifestyle through media, formal education, and general popular culture. New generation will readily accept it.

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## XiaoYaoZi

还是由于那些地区的贫穷落后与封闭造成的原因，当每个人的关注点全在抄房子，买汽车，玩智能手机上，傻子才搞极端主义。


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## Pakistani till death

Congrats China from Pakistan. Our terrorism levels have decreased significantly this year as well thanks to zarb e azb. We wont let east turkistan militants operate from our country! Hoping 2016 would be the year in which terrorism is eradicated from Pakistan and China!

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## beijingwalker

*Cycle the Karakoram Highway





*

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## beijingwalker

*Karakoram Highway | The Border of China and Pakistan
*





This region is increasingly becoming a tourist hot spot. Many domestic and international tour agencies offer a tour package here.

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## Swastika

beautiful Kashi mosque






Turkic Muslim Uighurs in China's Xinjiang fear oppression, assimilation | afr.com


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## Swastika

not even single comment, really ?


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## rcrmj

BordoEnes said:


> All has already been said in previous threads. I dont want to be banned for speaking against the Chinese overlords, they have special privileges here.


you were banned because of your support for the terrorism, not against China, just like that disgusting Turkic-french journalist been kicked out of China

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## BordoEnes

rcrmj said:


> you were banned because of your support for the terrorism, not against China, just like that disgusting Turkic-french journalist been kicked out of China



One man's terrorists is another man's Freedom Fighter. Besides, i was never banned.


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## initial_d

If china wanted the uighur to be proud being part of PRC, Then stop making/assimilate them into han and commie, let them being uighur and uphold islam

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## Kyle Sun

We have so many peaceful muslim except.uyghurs.

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## HAIDER

It would be better to stay loyal with China. From muslim they won't get anything .

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## HAIDER

BordoEnes said:


> I have a better one. China respects peoples cultures and identities!
> 
> Hilarious right? Ya commie prick.
> 
> 
> 
> Staying loyal to a country that completely oppresses you and forces you to assimiliate is something not even the dumbest retard would do. Understandably, there are armed resistance. Which is good, let them Chinese know we Turkic people aint going to be assimiliated by jackshitt. The Soviets tried, the Persians tried, the Arabs tried and now the Chinese are trying. That region will forever remain East-Turkestan, no articifical Chinese notion of "Xinjiang" will chance that.


What Turks can do for these Uhigurs ? . Any Turkish policy announce to resolve this oppression issue ? . It is human right report Han Chinese are brought in and settle in this particular part to bring racial balance..

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## nang2

I think Chinese government made a mistake. That is not to enforce Chinese language study in elementary education in Xinjiang. Chinese is the official language of the country. Without the knowledge of this language, people are basically robbed of the opportunities in China's fledging economy.

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## HAIDER

Lots been cooking, when Pakistan handover chinese muslims from taliban columns to Chinese govt. Later Chinese govt official came and thanks to Pak and also had long meeting with some members of religious political parties. Well, Pakistan is already having problem with India and Afghanistan. Don't want to open another border with its main ally.

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## qwerrty

blabla

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## BordoEnes

nang2 said:


> I think Chinese government made a mistake. That is not to enforce Chinese language study in elementary education in Xinjiang. Chinese is the official language of the country. Without the knowledge of this language, people are basically robbed of the opportunities in China's fledging economy.



Chinese is the _Lingue Franca_ logically ofcourse, but that shouldnt stop the Chinese goverment from teaching their respective langueges of regionals ethnicities. They should be able to learn their own language aside that of Chinese. And not just language, their history, religion, traditions, values and idenitity.

But what China is doing is straight forward assimiliation and oppresion. Han Chinese are being moved to East-Turkestan in mass, guess why?



HAIDER said:


> What Turks can do for these Uhigurs ? . Any Turkish policy announce to resolve this oppression issue ? . It is human right report Han Chinese are brought in and settle in this particular part to bring racial balance..



No, but the nationlist party MHP has been lobbying to take active action against the Uyghur oppresion and treatment.

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## nang2

BordoEnes said:


> Chinese is the _Lingue Franca_ logically ofcourse, but that shouldnt stop the Chinese goverment from teaching their respective langueges of regionals ethnicities. They should be able to learn their own language aside that of Chinese. And not just language, their history, religion, traditions, values and idenitity.
> 
> But what China is doing is straight forward assimiliation and oppresion. Han Chinese are being moved to East-Turkestan in mass, guess why?


Turkish is still the regional official language there. Uighor people still study their own language and culture. Of course there is no universal enforcement of Turkish in all schools. Many Han dominated schools are Chinese only. Cultural assimilation is inevitable. Economic power plays a big role. But no official push of assimilation. I can say it for sure because I grew up there. What is interesting and very few people know is that Chinese government was practising reverse discrimination there. Han economy push was intentionally curtailed to protect the "minority". This practice backfired.

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## 70U63

Wow, you just posted a comment without knowing that they are other minorities in China that also practice Islam without facing any issue from the authority?
 



initial_d said:


> If china wanted the uighur to be proud being part of PRC, Then stop making/assimilate them into han and commie, let them being uighur and uphold islam

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## BordoEnes

nang2 said:


> Turkish is still the regional official language there. Uighor people still study their own language and culture. Of course there is no universal enforcement of Turkish in all schools. Many Han dominated schools are Chinese only. Cultural assimilation is inevitable. Economic power plays a big role. But no official push of assimilation. I can say it for sure because I grew up there. What is interesting and very few people know is that Chinese government was practising reverse discrimination there. Han economy push was intentionally curtailed to protect the "minority". This practice backfired.



Thats not true. The annual income and infrastructure of heartland China is far better then the Tibet, Inner Mongolia and East-Turkestan.


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## nang2

BordoEnes said:


> Thats not true. The annual income and infrastructure of heartland China is far better then the Tibet, Inner Mongolia and East-Turkestan.


I didn't say reverse discrimination is nation wide. It is practised in that region only. Also your statement is interesting. Under what ground should that be otherwise? Complete equality, even in economy, is impossible.

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## Kyle Sun

BordoEnes said:


> Chinese is the _Lingue Franca_ logically ofcourse, but that shouldnt stop the Chinese goverment from teaching their respective langueges of regionals ethnicities. They should be able to learn their own language aside that of Chinese. And not just language, their history, religion, traditions, values and idenitity.
> 
> But what China is doing is straight forward assimiliation and oppresion. Han Chinese are being moved to East-Turkestan in mass, guess why?



China gov spends a lot of money and human resource to protect and keep the cultures of minority group including Uyghur.
We have built many schools which teach both Han and local languages. On the other hand , a Uyghur who knows Chinese can make his life easily .

Some guys , like you , are just too sensitive .

And XinJiang is our land , we are free to go there and you can also see Uyghur or other peoples in the central provinces of China. Actually Uyghur people are everywhere in China. Should We send them back to XJ ?



BordoEnes said:


> Thats not true. The annual income and infrastructure of heartland China is far better then the Tibet, Inner Mongolia and East-Turkestan.


It is true and logical .

Tibet ,Mongolia, XJ are inland city .

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## beijingwalker

I am from Xinjiang is a documentary book from Kurbanjan Samat, who has served as the photographer in CCTV’s Documentary Channel. Coming from Xinjiang, he uses his camera and his words to record the lives of 100 ordinary Xinjiang people living inland. He speaks of the various ethnic groups, of their different ages and different jobs. From the book, the modern Xinjiang people’s spirits and images of fighting for dreams have been exposed to us. In the end he stresses that we are all common Chinese citizens.

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## empirefighter

If the Urgur people donot want to be loyal to the country they live ,and be loyal to the country thousands of miles away,why need to choose to live in China? No one stop them leaving.
China is always China,never become Turkey,so please follow your heart and leave China. It is happy for both of us.

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## BordoEnes

Kyle Sun said:


> China gov spends a lot of money and human resource to protect and keep the cultures of minority group including Uyghur.
> We have built many schools which teach both Han and local languages. On the other hand , a Uyghur who knows Chinese can make his life easily .
> 
> Some guys , like you , are just too sensitive .
> 
> And XinJiang is our land , we are free to go there and you can also see Uyghur or other peoples in the central provinces of China. Actually Uyghur people are everywhere in China. Should We send them back to XJ ?
> 
> 
> It is true and logical .
> 
> Tibet ,Mongolia, XJ are inland city .



East-Turkestan aint your land, not historically nor in the present. Its a period of occupation for the people there, it will pass. Every empire and nation will fall out one point, and that time will come for your commie "peoples democratic" state. I aint sensitive, i'm just speaking the hard and painfull truth, not artificial notion of "Xinjiang" is going to change the name and history of that region.


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## BordoEnes

TheTruth said:


> Learn some history instead of reading your toilet paper propaganda. When PRC falls, the Uyghur are ****ed.



Open a geographical map and look at where East-Turkestan lies. If they are "East" then there as sure as hell is an West, South and North Turkestan states that are willing to liberate that region.

I aint worried. We have a dosen Turkic republics in the world, half of them being Russian federal subjects but more then enough recognition.


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## beijingwalker

Government put in billions of money to have provided high in nutrition free meals to Xinjiang school pupils and all their schooling and accommodations are free, paid by local or central government.





*Free school bus rides for Xinjiang students*
*



*

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## empirefighter

Xinjiang is part of China with more than 20 different minority,the Urgur people is the immigrants from other areas and is just common one of the minorities. If the Urgur people think it is very hard to be loyal to China,we governement can buy plane ticket for them to Turkey, it is no need to be unhappy to live in China.
After all, Turkey is a DEVELOPED country as they declared,we China just is a poor developing country.

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## beijingwalker

BordoEnes said:


> Open a geographical map and look at where East-Turkestan lies. If they are "East" then there as sure as hell is an West, South and North Turkestan states that are willing to liberate that region.
> 
> I aint worried. We have a dosen Turkic republics in the world, half of them being Russian federal subjects but more then enough recognition.


In your wet dreams, Nothing can stop China being the top country in the world. mess with China you will be remorseful in your graves.

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## TaiShang

BordoEnes said:


> East-Turkestan aint your land, not historically nor in the present. Its a period of occupation for the people there, it will pass. Every empire and nation will fall out one point, and that time will come for your commie "peoples democratic" state. I aint sensitive, i'm just speaking the hard and painfull truth, not artificial notion of "Xinjiang" is going to change the name and history of that region.



I would say the conditions in China's Xinjiang and Turkey's West Kurdistan are totally different.

In Xinjiang, we are pouring billions of dollars in infra and supra-structures, building new cities, upgrading old ones, providing universal healthcare, education (in national language), and solidifying the national culture through media, entertainment and private business.

In Turkey's Kurdistan, you (by you, I mean *your government only* - I do *not address any specific person here*) are literally conducting a war, sending heavy military systems upon small cities/towns, putting sharp shooters on top of buildings and playing very ethno-nationalist music, drawing sign on the walls of emptied schools, further agitating people. To give a very dramatic example, Turkish security forces have stripped a Kurdish woman off her clothes and dragged her for miles behind a security vehicle. Your government have killed Kurdish people from 3 month-olds to 80-year olds. All of these are happening as we speak in your Kurdistan region.

Your country is indeed facing a dire situation while in your big cities extremist groups such as ISIS, JN, AS and others are having their best time. How many best friends do you have in your neighborhood? No one in their sane mind would like to go to your country let alone live there. Those few Uighurs who choose to go there, we are only happy about this. We are thankful to Russia for ensuring that they would never be able to come back to China.

I would say Xinjiang is the least of your concerns. We control the situation, rest assured. People are being *assimilated* and the young are being* secularized* and you can do nothing about it. *We will assimilate them until the last joint in their minds.* We have a national rejuvenation and achieving great power status business to complete. Only last year, we added a one-and-a-half Turkey into our GDP. Why would we even take you slightly seriously?

I would suggest respecting each other's sovereignty and upholding non-interference in each other's national affairs. That's pragmatically because it is your country that is standing on a very precarious place.

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## cirr

I say guys，don't waste time with terrorists or people from a certain country that covertly and covetly sponsors terrorists。

Do what the Russians have been doing and will continue to do：

Bomb the crap and wit out of the bastards。

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## Kyle Sun

BordoEnes said:


> East-Turkestan aint your land, not historically nor in the present. Its a period of occupation for the people there, it will pass. Every empire and nation will fall out one point, and that time will come for your commie "peoples democratic" state. I aint sensitive, i'm just speaking the hard and painfull truth, not artificial notion of "Xinjiang" is going to change the name and history of that region.


Okay , then just wait for "that time" and their isn't a country named East-Tukestan in the country list of UN.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Anti-terrorists malitia, Almost all terrorists destroyed were first spotted and reported to the government by the locals.










Xinjiang has 13 ethnic groups living there, it's not only a Uyghur land. Tajiks, Russians, Hui and so many other ethnic groups are not Turks

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## BordoEnes

Kyle Sun said:


> Okay , then just wait for "that time" and their isn't a country named East-Tukestan in the country list of UN.



A couple years ago Sudan was one sovereign state, now there is South-Sudan. Nationhood is only another embodiment of an empire, and empires always fall.


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## Kyle Sun

BordoEnes said:


> A couple years ago Sudan was one sovereign state, now there is South-Sudan. Nationhood is only another embodiment of an empire, and empires always fall.


so does Turkey.

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## Genesis

@BordoEnes

Xinjiang has been part of China since 1950s. During that time, there's up and downs. What the people of Xinjiang has seen, be it on television or internet, or through their own personal experience is one of change.

They have seen China going from a poor country that had muddy roads to one that has the second longest highway system and the largest High Speed Rail network.

They have seen a nation that had trouble making a lamp to the biggest industrial nation on earth.

They have seen a nation that lived in home made brick houses to a city being built left right and center.

They have seen a nation that can barely make a satellite to edging ever closer to its own space station.

The point is the younger people of Xinjiang and even the older ones have seen this tremendous transformation, on the other hand the middle east and central Asia is as poor and troubled as ever.

There are problems I agree, but having seen all of this, why would the majority of Uyghur people even want independence. Especially since they have no connection to a Turkish identity since the time they were born. For better or worse like the African Americans, they can say they feel a divide, but they are still not African.

A few nut jobs doesn't count, as even Americans and Canadians join ISIS, doesn't mean living in America is worse than joining ISIS.

There's a big gap between unsatisfied with the government to wanting independence.

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## TheTruth

BordoEnes said:


> Open a geographical map and look at where East-Turkestan lies. If they are "East" then there as sure as hell is an West, South and North Turkestan states that are willing to liberate that region.



Open up a map, Xinjiang is in East Asia just like Tibet is. Meanwhile West Armenia, West Kurdistan and Eastern Greece are historical realities.



> I aint worried. We have a dosen Turkic republics in the world, half of them being Russian federal subjects but more then enough recognition.



None of which take you seriously, all of which have good ties with China.[/quote][/QUOTE]

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## BordoEnes

Kyle Sun said:


> so does Turkey.



Right.



Genesis said:


> @BordoEnes
> 
> Xinjiang has been part of China since 1950s. During that time, there's up and downs. What the people of Xinjiang has seen, be it on television or internet, or through their own personal experience is one of change.
> 
> They have seen China going from a poor country that had muddy roads to one that has the second longest highway system and the largest High Speed Rail network.
> 
> They have seen a nation that had trouble making a lamp to the biggest industrial nation on earth.
> 
> They have seen a nation that lived in home made brick houses to a city being built left right and center.
> 
> They have seen a nation that can barely make a satellite to edging ever closer to its own space station.
> 
> The point is the younger people of Xinjiang and even the older ones have seen this tremendous transformation, on the other hand the middle east and central Asia is as poor and troubled as ever.
> 
> There are problems I agree, but having seen all of this, why would the majority of Uyghur people even want independence. Especially since they have no connection to a Turkish identity since the time they were born. For better or worse like the African Americans, they can say they feel a divide, but they are still not African.
> 
> A few nut jobs doesn't count, as even Americans and Canadians join ISIS, doesn't mean living in America is worse than joining ISIS.
> 
> There's a big gap between unsatisfied with the government to wanting independence.



I never said they should neccesarly gain independence, my worries lie with the assimilation and oppresion of their religion, history, traditions, culture and identity. You take care of that, and then Turkic people will leave you alone.



TaiShang said:


> I would say the conditions in China's Xinjiang and Turkey's West Kurdistan are totally different.
> 
> In Xinjiang, we are pouring billions of dollars in infra and supra-structures, building new cities, upgrading old ones, providing universal healthcare, education (in national language), and solidifying the national culture through media, entertainment and private business.
> 
> In Turkey's Kurdistan, you (by you, I mean *your government only* - I do *not address any specific person here*) are literally conducting a war, sending heavy military systems upon small cities/towns, putting sharp shooters on top of buildings and playing very ethno-nationalist music, drawing sign on the walls of emptied schools, further agitating people. To give a very dramatic example, Turkish security forces have stripped a Kurdish woman off her clothes and dragged her for miles behind a security vehicle. Your government have killed Kurdish people from 3 month-olds to 80-year olds. All of these are happening as we speak in your Kurdistan region.
> 
> Your country is indeed facing a dire situation while in your big cities extremist groups such as ISIS, JN, AS and others are having their best time. How many best friends do you have in your neighborhood? No one in their sane mind would like to go to your country let alone live there. Those few Uighurs who choose to go there, we are only happy about this. We are thankful to Russia for ensuring that they would never be able to come back to China.
> 
> I would say Xinjiang is the least of your concerns. We control the situation, rest assured. People are being *assimilated* and the young are being* secularized* and you can do nothing about it. *We will assimilate them until the last joint in their minds.* We have a national rejuvenation and achieving great power status business to complete. Only last year, we added a one-and-a-half Turkey into our GDP. Why would we even take you slightly seriously?
> 
> I would suggest respecting each other's sovereignty and upholding non-interference in each other's national affairs. That's pragmatically because it is your country that is standing on a very precarious place.



So essentialy you admit China is forcing assimiliation and oppression of Uyghur Turks. Good to know we are on the same pace.


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## beijingwalker

BordoEnes said:


> So essentialy you admit China is forcing assimiliation and oppression of Uyghur Turks. Good to know we are on the same pace.


We take care our people better than you take care of your people. The reason why they still have strong sense of ethnicity identity is because unlike Russia who forcibly made their minorities adopt Russian names and speak Russian in stead of their own languages, China never force them to give up their own everything in the past 6 decades and that's part of China's current problem now, almost all of them can speak Chinese.

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## TaiShang

BordoEnes said:


> So essentialy you admit China is forcing assimiliation and oppression of Uyghur Turks. Good to know we are on the same pace.



Assimilation, definitely. This is how you become a nation: Adopting a common language and culture while protecting multiplicity at the local level. This is good for business because diversity attracts tourism. And China is a much bigger tourist destination than Turkey has ever been because China is the world's richest nation in terms of culture.

Oppression, on the other hand, is Turkey's way of handling the Kurds and other minorities. This could be empirically verified as we watch it on the alternative media every evening.

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## Genesis

BordoEnes said:


> I never said they should neccesarly gain independence, my worries lie with the assimilation and oppresion of their religion, history, traditions, culture and identity. You take care of that, and then Turkic people will leave you alone.



You obviously don't know China. Xinjiang isn't a rich place. Even if Chinese government wanted to erase the language they can't. They don't have enough teachers. On average, less than half of the teachers there can teach Mandarin.

The "forced" immigration, are mostly these teachers and skilled workers, but believe me, almost no one wants to go. If it was you would you? Shanghai or Urumuqi. 

Is there a racial bias? Yes, is it pretty bad? Probably, China is still nation that can discriminate base on gender and age, unofficially, much less race. Though like all developed nations before it, China will move forward, the Uyghur people are much more integrated into the Chinese society than their parents in the 80s and 90s. Only a matter of time. 

Also in terms of religion, Turkey is a Muslim country hence the importance on Islam, but China is an officially Atheist nation. The new generation will not want to be Muslim, just like Netherlands. It isn't necessarily crushing it, but unless it is in a ultra religious environment, religion is usually cast to the side. 

Lastly, I don't mean to be mean, but Turkish people will leave us alone? You don't have to, like Johnston to Sherman, you can do no more than annoy us.

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## beijingwalker

Human history is all about assimilation and regrouping, study history first. Turks themselves are the best example for this process.

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## HAIDER

beijingwalker said:


> Human history is all about assimilation and regrouping, study history first. Turks themselves are the best example for this process.


Yeah every few hundred years, racial setup change.But how come Han are still intact ? .


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## beijingwalker

HAIDER said:


> Yeah every few hundred years, racial setup change.But how come Han are still intact ? .


Han changed as well, we northerners look different from southerners . hundreds if not thousands of ethnic groups disappeared during the long course of Chinese history and now we all become one.

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## BordoEnes

beijingwalker said:


> Human history is all about assimilation and regrouping, study history first. Turks themselves are the best example for this process.



Right, but the human history is one big blood shed due the revolutions, uprisings, oppression, inequality and etc. You look at the history from one perspective, but thats the dumbest thing one person can dol.

Its true that assimiliation is part of Human history, that wont stop people from fighting against it.



Genesis said:


> You obviously don't know China. Xinjiang isn't a rich place. Even if Chinese government wanted to erase the language they can't. They don't have enough teachers. On average, less than half of the teachers there can teach Mandarin.
> 
> The "forced" immigration, are mostly these teachers and skilled workers, but believe me, almost no one wants to go. If it was you would you? Shanghai or Urumuqi.
> 
> Is there a racial bias? Yes, is it pretty bad? Probably, China is still nation that can discriminate base on gender and age, unofficially, much less race. Though like all developed nations before it, China will move forward, the Uyghur people are much more integrated into the Chinese society than their parents in the 80s and 90s. Only a matter of time.
> 
> Also in terms of religion, Turkey is a Muslim country hence the importance on Islam, but China is an officially Atheist nation. The new generation will not want to be Muslim, just like Netherlands. It isn't necessarily crushing it, but unless it is in a ultra religious environment, religion is usually cast to the side.
> 
> Lastly, I don't mean to be mean, but Turkish people will leave us alone? You don't have to, like Johnston to Sherman, you can do no more than annoy us.



As the most prominent rising Turkic country in the world, our policies and stances will directly influence the Uyghur issue, we can do much more then simply annoy you. Remember, you border Turkic countries.


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## HAIDER

BordoEnes said:


> Right, but the human history is one big blood shed due the revolutions, uprisings, oppression, inequality and etc. You look at the history from one perspective, but thats the dumbest thing one person can dol.
> 
> Its true that assimiliation is part of Human history, that wont stop people from fighting against it.


I think nature give everyone chance and its all survival for the fittest or absolute power bring absolute corruption...an old saying. That's how Romans and Greeks went down the drain.

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## beijingwalker

BordoEnes said:


> Right, but the human history is one big blood shed due the revolutions, uprisings, oppression, inequality and etc. You look at the history from one perspective, but thats the dumbest thing one person can dol.
> 
> Its true that assimiliation is part of Human history, that wont stop people from fighting against it.



Turkey is now hell bent to pick fight with China and Russia, you should know how powerful the nations you are taking on and it won't end up well for the future existence of your nation.

Turkey is behind the Chinese terrorists

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## BordoEnes

TaiShang said:


> Assimilation, definitely. This is how you become a nation: Adopting a common language and culture while protecting multiplicity at the local level. This is good for business because diversity attracts tourism. And China is a much bigger tourist destination than Turkey has ever been because China is the world's richest nation in terms of culture.
> 
> Oppression, on the other hand, is Turkey's way of handling the Kurds and other minorities. This could be empirically verified as we watch it on the alternative media every evening.



Kurds in Turkey have equal rights as any other Turk in Turkey. Their language, culture, history, traditions are all completely allowed in Turkey and are thought in schools. 

Despite my earlier comment, i dont support separtism. But you are really asking for it.



beijingwalker said:


> Turkey is now hell bent to pick fight with China and Russia, you should know how powerful the nations you are taking on and it won't end up well for the future existence of your nation.
> 
> Turkey is behind the Chinese terrorists



We already did, your response and reactions are poor to say the least.


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## Genesis

BordoEnes said:


> As the most prominent rising Turkic country in the world, our policies and stances will directly influence the Uyghur issue, we can do much more then simply annoy you. Remember, you border Turkic countries.



Remember, we are not Syria. We spend more in one military zone than your entire military. Not even taking into account our navy. 

Being in the middle east has really clouded your judgement. I keep hearing Turkish members repeating how you guys are second in number of men in NATO. That means less than crap to a nation like China who is directly challenging the US.

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## beijingwalker

China and Russia have more money and means to make big trouble for Turkey . We are just trying to be nice now. Don't take our patience as weakness. You better learn to know your place in the world.

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## BordoEnes

Genesis said:


> Remember, we are not Syria. We spend more in one military zone than your entire military. Not even taking into account our navy.
> 
> Being in the middle east has really clouded your judgement. I keep hearing Turkish members repeating how you guys are second in number of men in NATO. That means less than crap to a nation like China who is directly challenging the US.



lol anyone can challenge, that doesnt make you a superpower. We challenged Russia, so we are a global power now?

You have yet to overwhelm India and Indonesia in the south, S.Korea and Japan in the east, Russia in the North. 


beijingwalker said:


> China and Russia have more money and means to make big trouble for Turkey . We are just trying to be nice now. Don't take our patience as weakness. You better learn to know your place in the world.



That place would be above you.



TheTruth said:


> Turkic countries which are friendly to China. You have no influence over them. To them, you're just some mongrelized freak barking loudly.
> 
> Putin will walk into your house and slap you.



Where was Putin when we downed their plane?


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## silverox

i from china,the reality is china want to stop wahhabism tradition to replace of uyghur tradition.
a lot of uyghur terrorist accept wahhabism from pakistan,saudi arabia and afghanstan. so these terrorist can say everybody who dont agree with their radicial islam are kaffir。
these uyghur terrorist attack woman on the street ,because the woman not willing to overall dressing in black robe.
wahhabism is a real devil,they inspire endless hatred and killing go wherever.
i think pakistani have a deep understanding of this. dear pakistan, do you find the arab tradition gradually to replace of urself tradition? u country have a islam name,but china is a secular society,we must not allow the wahhabism devil to destroy uyghur future

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## Sasquatch

Threads cleaned up.

Uighurs have themselves to blame for it if you put political correctness aside. The problems began occurring when they started becoming more radicalized, resorting to terrorism, abusing their minority status rights.

I recently been to Urumqi and Kashgar a month earlier and there is already bad blood with Han Chinese, hell they even managed to piss off other minorities like Tajik, Hui, Kazakhs, and Russians living there. The common perception of Uighurs by Han, Kazakh, Hui, Tajiks, and Russians in Xinjiang is they are mostly thieves and terrorists. This stems from them resorting to crimes such as robbery, pick pocketing, and scams not only on Han but other minorities. Constant terror attacks and calling fellow Muslim groups like Huis slaves of Han does not help them either.

Urumqi and much of northern Xinijiang is assimilated the south, cities Kasghar would give you the feeling you are in Kabul. Did not feel safe with the religious fanatics there. But on topic faster migration and assimilation is inevitable, Han population is majority now, Uighurs whether they like it or not will be assimilated willing or unwilling.

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## TaiShang

BordoEnes said:


> And yet you are all bitching and crying about terrorisme. This is justification enough. Piss off all of you, i'll support these freedom fighters till the end. May the end of the commie dictatorship come swift and the liberation of East-Turkestan be realized.




A terrorist lover is always a terrorist lover. It takes somebody to go full Putin to change this nature.

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## Sasquatch

BordoEnes said:


> And yet you are all bitching and crying about terrorisme. This is justification enough. Piss off all of you, i'll support these freedom fighters till the end. May the end of the commie dictatorship come swift and the liberation of East-Turkestan be realized.



Terrorism is not justified in any situation, its a losing game the Uighurs are finding out the response is brutal when flamethrowers being used. Honestly this looks like a statement based on emotion why not try to rationally discuss this ? Both sides have blame but the end of the CPC will not make Xinjiang gain Independence its Han majority it will lead to the KMT which will let nationalism reign and make it worse for the Uighurs.Sadly no rational discussion will come forward as I hoped so I will close the thread, Disappointed . Anyway I will forward these comments to admin to see what should be done with terrorist sympathizers.

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## beijingwalker

*Breathtaking aerial view of Guozigou Bridge in NW China's Xinjiang




*

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## beijingwalker

*Aerial view of Longjiang Bridge in SW China's Yunnan




*

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## onebyone

OMG

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## Muhammad Omar

Damn 

China surely amazes the World with such Marvels of Engineering


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## B+ Dracula

I want same Replica here in my Country....

Keep bringing Innovative Ideas to Dazzle the world with your Engineering ...*Best of Luck*


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## Aepsilons

Gorgeous View!!


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## Pangu

beijingwalker said:


> *Breathtaking aerial view of Guozigou Bridge in NW China's Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



This is one bridge I will have to drive across, just for the sake of it. Magnificent view!

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## TaiShang

China's Xinjiang is an amazing place for tourism. Lots of chance to explore local tastes, customs and traditions. The nature is beautiful, too, but, China's Xizhang would probably offer a better experience on that regard.

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang Sayram Lake*
*



*

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## beijingwalker

Funny Xinjiang Uyghur Girl Dilraba Dilmurat doing heavy local Beijing accent Lip sync

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## beijingwalker



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## Dungeness

beijingwalker said:


>




This is a good one!  She is cute!


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## muhammad zahid jameel

chawal he ha


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## beijingwalker

Bizarre but beautiful: newly built stadiums in NW China's Xinjiang
Aerial footage showing the stadiums which were designed based on the shapes of saussurea blossoms of Xinjiang for the upcoming 13th National Winter Games





.

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## beijingwalker

China's 13th National Winter Games


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## guest11

*Xinjiang residents must submit DNA for passports: media*

BEIJING: Residents of a border district in China's mostly Muslim region of Xinjiang must now provide DNA samples when applying for passports, according to official local media.

As of first of June, residents of the Yili Kazakh Autonomous Prefecture in China's far northwest must give police DNA samples, fingerprints, voice prints and a "three-dimensional image" in order to apply for certain travel documents, the official Yili Daily said, citing the local public security bureau.

Many members of the mostly Muslim Uighur community in Xinjiang complain of discrimination including denials of passport applications as well as controls on their culture and religion.

The new policy which came into effect just before the holy month of Ramazan starting Monday concerns applications for and renewals of passports, entry permits to Taiwan, and two-way permits to Hong Kong and Macau, the paper said.

Those who fail to fulfill requirements will be refused documents, it added.

Yili prefecture borders Mongolia, Russia and Kazakhstan. It is part of Xinjiang, homeland of the more than 10 million-strong Uighur minority.

Regular clashes between Uighurs and state security forces have killed hundreds. Beijing attributes the conflicts to Islamic extremism and foreign influence, while activists blame draconian restrictions on religion and culture.

China tightly controls religious groups despite frequently proclaiming that its citizens have freedom of belief.

Several local governments have posted notices on their websites in the last week ordering restrictions on fasting during Ramazan, with others commanding restaurants to remain open.


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## CHD

guest11 said:


> with others commanding restaurants to remain open.


Restaurants being open how is that gonna affect Ramazan, even here in Islamabad restaurants are open during Ramazan


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## guest11

Gamer-X said:


> Restaurants being open how is that gonna affect Ramazan, even here in Islamabad restaurants are open during Ramazan



"Commanding" is key word here. You are commanded not to close up shops whether you want to or not.


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang Taklamakan Desert Family

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## simple Brain

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang Taklamakan Desert Family



Awesome Video mate, thanks for sharing. That fish bbq looked exactly the same as we cook here in Baluchistan. Its called Blochi Saji.

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## Aero

Source :The Diplomat

Analysis of the world’s Islamic jihadist movements shows that over the past few months, the Internet-based propaganda activity of the Turkestan Islamic Party (TIP) has increased dramatically. The Turkestan Islamic Party, a group also called the East Turkestan Islamic Movement (ETIM), fights for the establishment of a fundamentalist Islamic State of East Turkestan in China’s Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

The TIP’s members consist mainly of ethnic Muslim Uyghurs. Since 2001, the group has been affiliated with al-Qaeda. After the emergence of the Islamic State (ISIS), the ideological goals and the scale of hostilities of the Turkestan Islamic Party shifted. In 2013, the TIP moved to join the Caliphate, integrating, along with a pair of Uzbek groups, into a faction of Jabhat al-Nusra. Recently it was reported that on July 28, 2016 Abu Muhammad al-Julani, the leader of Jabhat al-Nusra announced that the group would be renamed as Jabhat Fath al-Sham.

Today more than 2,000 TIP fighters in alliance and under the leadership of Jabhat Fath al-Sham are fighting in the northwest part of Syria against the regime of Bashar al-Assad. According to _Al Arabiya News_ there are a few thousand Uyghur fighters in Syria, many of whom arrived with their families after a long and treacherous journey from China and Central Asia. They are believed to have been seen in large numbers in disparate regions of Idlib, including the strategic town of Jisr al-Shoghur, Ariha, and the highlands of Jabal al-Zawiya.

The analysis shows that in recent months the TIP has posted more than 30 videos and other propaganda material on the internet. A careful study of this material makes it clear that significant changes have occurred in the ideological and strategic goals of the TIP since 2010. The position of the Turkestan Islamic Party against the Chinese authorities has become even more radical. If previously the party’s strategic objective was to conduct a terrorist struggle against the power structures of China and to separate Xinjiang from Beijing, today it sets a more global objective. TIP fighters call on the world’s Muslims to join the jihad against Western countries in internet videos. Perhaps most worringly for China, the TIP believes that Muslims may fight locally using various means instead of coming to Syria and Iraq to conduct a “holy war” against the “infidel” Western regimes.

*TIP’s Propaganda Work*

In addition to military actions in Syria, the TIP has begun to focus greater attention on propaganda work. On August 5 it launched a new channel via the Telegram instant messaging service, which houses a variety of information on the nature of jihad propaganda. TIP fighter and members alike are capable of transmitting information to others on the private channel. The leader of TIP, Abdul Ahad Turkistānī (Abd al-Ḥaqq al-Turkistānī), is registered as a moderator of the Telegram channel. Overall, the messaging is a kind of blunt challenge to the coalition forces led by the United States, who are fighting against the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq.

Since 2008, the information center of the TIP has produced an Arabic print and online color magazine, “Islamic Turkestan.” In its latest issue (#19), published in May 2016, there were materials on a variety of topics, ranging from the Salafi doctrine of jihad to anti-Chinese articles. In contrast to earlier issues, the range of subjects has expanded. Earlier issues mainly focused on Beijing’s military suppression of Uyghurs in East Turkestan, while in recent issues the TIP gives political assessments of the events in Syria and Iraq. In particular, the Turkestan Islamic Party condemns what they call the “crusade” of Western states led by the United States against Syria. In the lead article, NATO is called an “Alliance of Crusaders,” which weakens jihad with airstrikes. The TIP also accuses Russia and Iran of providing military support to Assad. The lead article states that “the Russian planes and tanks will not save the Alawite regime of Assad, as the Mujahideen in Sham will soon destroy it with the support of Allah.” The article concludes with an appeal to TIP fighters to support the people of Sham and remain steadfast on the path of jihad which it states is “specified by the Messenger of Allah.”

The magazine also continues its focus on the oppression of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang province. Headlines include: “East Turkestan is seething under Chinese repression,” “History of the suffering of Muslims,” “China has adopted controversial laws on the fight against terrorism,” “Gushing wound of East Turkestan,” “Crimes of the Chinese Communist Regime,” “Save Turkestan until it is too late,” “Crying of silk scarves of Uyghur mothers,” and others. The last page of the magazine states that “the emancipation of East Turkestan from the Communist China is the duty of every Muslim of East Turkestan.” Articles include colorful photos of Islamic scholars, TIP fighters in Syria, and violent repression by the Chinese police.

Analysis of published materials shows substantial and thematic similarities between the TIP’s magazine and other periodicals issued by radical Islamist terrorist groups.

It should be noted that all videos, statements, and audio materials from TIP have been prepared and posted on the Internet by the group’s the official media center,“Islam Awazi,” which translates as the “Voice of Islam.” In particular, on July 22, 2016 the Turkestan Islamic Party distributed a video titled “My Desire,” which highlighted photos of Uyghur fighters in Syria and their struggle with the Chinese army in the city of Urumqi. Behind the scenes, a song states in the Uyghur language, “We want to live according to the canons of Shariah as true Muslims and to conduct holy war against infidels on earth.” Half a dozen similar videos were posted over recent months in addition to several songs and music videos.

*TIP Turns Against ISIS*

Among the many videos of “Islam Awazi,” the audio message of TIP Emir Abd al-Ḥaqq al-Turkistānī posted on May 28, 2016 deserves special attention. It shows that he is alive and still runs the Turkestan Islamic Party. Pakistan’s Interior Minister Rehman Malik previously stated that al-Haqq was killed in a U.S. drone strike in North Waziristan on February 15, 2010, but the TIP never confirmed the death of its leader. After four years it was reported in the media that he was able to recover from his injuries.

In a new audio message, al-Haqq called Uyghurs “in any corner of the world, wherever they may be” to join jihad. According to al-Haqq, “today they are making jihad in Sham, helping their brothers, and tomorrow the soldiers of Islam must be willing to return to China to emancipate the western province of Xinjiang from the communist invaders.”

However, he also condemned ISIS and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU) as “illegitimate.” In his opinion, “the proclamation of Caliphate [by ISIS] was equivalent to unripened crop harvesting, since it was established without the approval of the Islamic leaders and the Ummah” (the international community of Muslims). He argued that the Caliphate had to be established on the basis of Shariah, and not on a political basis. He condemned the brutal executions of ordinary Muslims by ISIS fighters and questioned the theological knowledge of its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. At the end of his messages al-Ḥaqq explained the ideological and religious reasons for the split between the Turkestan Islamic Party and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan.

In August 2015, Usman Ghazi, the IMU leader, took the oath of allegiance to ISIS emir al-Baghdadi, and cut ties with al-Qaeda and the Taliban. Uzbek militants from Central Asia who split from the IMU, remaining faithful to al-Qaeda under the wing of the terrorist group Islamic Jihad Union (IJU), swore allegiance to Mullah Akhtar Mohammad Mansour, the new leader of the Taliban. In December 2015, following the “betrayal,” the Taliban fought against and defeated the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan in the Afghan province of Zabul. According to al-Ḥaqq, the IMU leader’s fatal error led to the collapse of the group. But its defeat was in the interest of the TIP, since the two organizations who sought to create a caliphate in Central Asia and China’s Xinjiang were secretly competing with each other for influence.

*Uyghurs in the Arms of Global Jihad*

“Islam Awazi,” the TIP’s media center, publishes three to four videos monthly in the column, “A Call From the Front Lines of Jihad,” which report about the military “successes” of TIP fighters. Also, a monthly “Tourism of the Believers” video is produced which demonstrates the “peaceful” and “military” life of Uyghur fighters in Syria. There are regular columns titled “Lovers of Paradise,” “Blessings Are the Strangers,” “Go Forth Oh Mujāhid.” “Islam Awazi” also posts letters, orders, statements, messages, and greetings from TIP leadership in PDF format.

After careful analysis of the video, audio, and printed materials from “Islam Awazi” it can be concluded that almost all of them contain anti-China slogans as well as a call for jihad. Despite the transition of its main fighting force to Syria and its initiation within the global jihad, throughout the entire period of its existence the TIP has maintained a position against China specifically. All of its promotional materials raise the problem of Xinjiang and express concerns about the repression of Uyghur Muslims in Xinjiang. The Turkestan Islamic Party attempts to appeal to traditionally painful issues for Uyghurs, such as the Chinese birth control policy, expansion of the Han in Xinjiang, and discrimination and persecution of Muslims by Beijing. There is a call for jihad at the end of each message, regardless of format.

The TIP attempts to legitimize its terrorist activities by invoking the name of Allah. “The fight with China is our duty to Allah,” says Abdullah Mansour, one of the Islamic ideologues of the party, who justifies his political objectives with theological rhetoric. According to Mansour’s logic, the armed struggle against China is not a political objective of the TIP; it is the will of Allah. TIP leaders argue for their two main objectives — the separation of Xinjiang from China and the establishment of the Islamic state of “East Turkestan” in its place — using verses of the Quran.

The ideology of the Turkestan Islamic Party has undergone a number of significant changes resulting from rapprochement with al-Qaeda in Waziristan (2001-2010) and Jabhat al-Nusra in Syria (2013-2016). In particular, the TIP has expanded the geographic reach of its interests and has strengthened links with radical Islamists from Southeast Asia, the Middle East, and the Maghreb. Today, the TIP has become a serious contender in global jihad. As a result of the impact of transnational radical Islamic groups on the TIP, the doctrine of jihad has been permanently entrenched as the basis of the organization’s ideological platform. The TIP’s propaganda materials have acquired a pronounced jihadist hue. “Islam Awazi” has obviously adopted the style and form of presentation of other extremist groups in preparing its videos, particularly following the models of ISIS, al-Qaeda, and Jabhat al-Nusra.

The TIP has also successfully started to mimic the tactics of the Taliban while conducting terrorist attacks. Before 2003 the targets of TIP attacks were officials, police, and members of the Chinese security forces. After its integration with al-Qaeda, Uyghur fighters began carrying out attacks in crowded and busy areas. This has led to an increase in “the damaging effect” of attacks and an increasing number of victims. The terrorist attacks in 2013-2014 in Tiananmen Square in Beijing, Urumqi, and the attempt to hijack the aircraft Hotan-Urumqiindicate a change in targets and places for the attacks. Today ISIS-inspired radicals in Europe repeat the experience of TIP fighters, who massacred Han Chinese at stations in Kunming and Guangzhou using knives, axes, and machetes in 2014.

*Ruse of the “Red Dragon”*

The globalization of Uyghur jihadists from the Turkestan Islamic Party, along with their separatist ideology, have become major problems for China. Beijing’s repressive policies in Xinjiang have pushed some Uyghurs to move from nationalism into the arms of Islamic extremists. Demonstrated violence against the Uyghurs, violation of their human rights, and restrictions and prohibitions on Islamic practices contributed to the development of the terrorist threat. Beijing, with its aggressive policies in Xinjiang over the past 15 years, has strengthened the position of the TIP which, in turn, exacerbated the problem of Uyghur nationalism and separatism, which rose to join the ranks of global jihad. Leader of the ISIS Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi has said that China is the target of the Islamists.

China pursues purely personal interests in the fight against ISIS. The Chinese state-owned oil company Sinopec has made multimillion dollar investments to develop oil and gas fields in Iraqi Kurdistan. This provides Beijing with an opportunity to influence Turkey, which tacitly supports Uyghur separatists out of a sense of ethnic solidarity. China has not forgotten the statement of Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan that “Eastern Turkestan is not only the home of the Turkic peoples, but it is also the cradle of Turkic history, civilization, and culture. The martyrs of Eastern Turkestan are our own martyrs.”

However, as experience has shown, China takes a passive position in the struggle against global Islamic jihad in Syria and Iraq. Beijing has not sent its troops to the Middle East to fight ISIS and has instead confined itself to diplomatic support for Russia and the United States. The Chinese government uses the attacks of Islamic jihadists to persuade Western countries to support Beijing’s position on Xinjiang and turn a blind eye when the freedom and rights of Uyghurs are harshly suppressed by Chinese security forces. Therefore, China is not perceived by the West as a reliable partner in the fight against terrorism.

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## nang2

That is not China's nightmare. That is global's nightmare.

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## Brainsucker

You know why 2000 fighters are matter in Syria? That's because Syria doesn't has many soldiers to begin with. But the China Western Theater alone has more than 100.000 soldiers, maybe surpass 200.000. If it's not enough, they can bring 500.000 more from another theater. And China is stable politically. So they can concentrate their effort to Xinjiang. If these brigade move to China via Afghanistan, they will face more than 1:10 opposition. And they have not enough support from the domestic people, as they can only depend to Uighur Ethic (Which is minority). That means, it's suicide. Even if everyone are Rambo, and got the best weapon available.

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## Beast

China shall military back Syria government or Iraq government in battle against ISIS

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## empirefighter

China can easily crush these rebels as we did for hundreds of years. If the rebels attack more and more， the policy of government will become tougher and tougher.

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## kankan326

At least now we know where to find and hunt them.

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## TaiShang

Wow, what a revelation that there are Uighur terrorists fighting in Syria against Syrian government.

Not news to us. I have published a short policy paper on this two years ago.

It is not a secret and, in fact, a sizable portion of these terrorists are those that are already based in Turkey, given Turkish citizenship.

So, them going global not a bad news to us. Russia will be busy frying them at greater numbers and we will be geopolitically supporting the anti-terror efforts.

As for nightmare, that's a word more suitable for unstable and potential terror targets such as Europe, Turkey, India and the US.

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## Zsari

That's a blessing, not a nightmare. A terrorist stepping out of the shadow is a dead terrorist.

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## xunzi

A good terrorist is a dead terrorist. As long as keep that mindset, I see no fear. No fear. LOL

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

The Diplomat???

Are we serious here? Zero relevance.

Syria is a great place to eliminate all this threat to civilisation there. No mercy.

But most importantly... next step has to be the sponsors and those who provide finance and weapons...otherwise... sickness keeps coming back.

We must drain the swamp and then burn it twice over for good measure as well.

But need no advice from Anti China Diplomat. Pathetic publications of troublemakers.

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## sword1947

enjoy yourself in the Europe and the Middle east

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## beijingwalker

*Train Attendants of Lanzhou–Xinjiang High-Speed Railway*
*



*

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## AndrewJin

beijingwalker said:


> *Train Attendants of Lanzhou–Xinjiang High-Speed Railway
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


They are attendants of Urumqi Railway Bureau!

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## Mitro

It's amazing how China manage to keep everything clean and tidy with billions of people and then compare it to supa pawa India .


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## AndrewJin

Czar786 said:


> It's amazing how China manage to keep everything clean and tidy with billions of people and then compare it to supa pawa India .


India will soon have more people than China...


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## vtnsx

By Chieu Luu and Nanlin Fang, CNN


> Beijing (CNN)Millions of residents in China's northwestern Xinjiang region have been ordered to surrender their passports to local police, in a move rights groups say is an attack on personal freedom.
> 
> The order came from the Shihezi Public Security Bureau Immigration Office in Xinjiang on October 19, which said that passports would be held by police after an "annual check."
> Residents wishing to travel abroad would have to seek permission from local authorities, the statement said. Those who refuse could be barred from leaving the country.
> Xinjiang is an ethnically divided and resource rich province that is home to around 10 million predominantly Muslim Uyghurs and around eight million Han Chinese.
> No reason was given for the policy, however the World Uyghur Congress, a Germany-based rights group, said it was deliberate move to restrict the movements of the Uyghur population.
> "Although the regulations ostensibly target all residents, Chinese authorities in the past have taken clear steps to limit mobility rights for the Uyghur community in particular," the Congress said in a statement.



http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/24/asia/china-xinjiang-passports/index.html


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## ahojunk

*350 evacuated after Xinjiang quake*
2016-11-28 10:04 | Xinhua | _Editor: Mo Hong'e_






_*A rescuer works at a quake-hit sheepfold in Xinjiang's Akto County, Nov. 27, 2016.
(Photo/Chinanews.com)*_​
Military personnel have evacuated 350 people from Xinjiang's Akto County, hit by a 6.7-magnitude earthquake on Friday.

More than 20 army staff from the nearby military regiment arrived immediately after the quake, the regiment said Sunday in a statement. Another 45 staff joined the rescue team on Saturday and went to a village close to the epicenter with tents, food and medicine.

The regiment also sent oxygen and quilts to the worst-hit areas. More than 120 militia helped residents clear the snow and transfer their property.

One person died in the quake. Sections of railway in southern Xinjiang have also been temporarily closed.

Hundreds of aftershocks were monitored by the China Earthquake Networks Center, with the largest recorded at a magnitude of 5.0.

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## Zibago

*Earthquake hits China’s Xinjiang region*
Foreign6 MINS AGO BY AGENCIES

An earthquake of magnitude 6.1 hit China’s far western region of Xinjiang on Thursday, the US Geological Survey said.


There were no immediate reports of damage or casualties from the quake, which struck 51 km (32 miles) south of the city of Shihezi, at a depth of 55 km (35 miles).



http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/blog/2016/12/08/earthquake-hits-chinas-xinjiang-region/

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## Kuwaiti Girl

Well done to the Chinese police! 

*Chinese police kill four after Xinjiang attack*
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38454095

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## Beast

BBC shall not continue post those human right nonsense. Most of those exile uyghur are terrorist members like Free East Turkistan group. With U.K. briexit. Human right BS will come back and haunt UK.

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## Place Of Space

Any videos? I just read a very brief story from newspaper tomorning.

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## pzkilo

yea,I have read this news from Chinese websites today's morning. 5 dead including 4 Terrorists, but no more details yet.

human right blablablabla, I have to say: western media = shit. 
**** off

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## samsara

Beast said:


> BBC shall not continue post those human right nonsense. Most of those exile uyghur are terrorist members like Free East Turkistan group. With U.K. briexit. Human right BS will come back and haunt UK.


BBC is the most prominent "truth manufacturer" news machine in UK as well as one of the oldest news center in the Old Continent, though it's funded by the UK gov I cannot call it as solely the mouthpiece of London because it's alleged that the very influential Rothschild family also has its deep interests in this aging broadcast company.

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## CBU-105

http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacke...plosives-at-communist-party-office-1482978809

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...errorists-and-one-bystander-killed-says-china

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...k-in-chinas-xinjiang/articleshow/56230733.cms

4 p*gs dispatched to hell, good job, China !

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## SBUS-CXK

CBU-105 said:


> http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacke...plosives-at-communist-party-office-1482978809
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...errorists-and-one-bystander-killed-says-china
> 
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...k-in-chinas-xinjiang/articleshow/56230733.cms
> 
> 4 p*gs dispatched to hell, good job, China !


In fact, I think the better job is to put these troublemakers to Gujarat or Syria and Iraq.

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## Shotgunner51

samsara said:


> BBC is the most prominent "truth manufacturer" news machine in UK as well as one of the oldest news center in the Old Continent, though it's funded by the UK gov I cannot call it as solely the mouthpiece of London because it's alleged that the very influential Rothschild family also has its deep interests in this aging broadcast company.




Notice the difference in how things are reported by same BBC?

*BBC: Chinese police kill four after Xinjiang attack*
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38454095

*BBC: Berlin truck attacker Anis Amri killed in Milan*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38415287

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## TaiShang

Shotgunner51 said:


> Notice the difference in how things are reported by same BBC?
> 
> *BBC: Chinese police kill four after Xinjiang attack*
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-38454095
> 
> *BBC: Berlin truck attacker Anis Amri killed in Milan*
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38415287



Tricky play with the words.

The Guardian reporting quoted above is even more pathetic. In the second paragraph right after the introduction, they seem to ascribe the sporadic acts of terrorism to some grievances.

It is same as calling the ISIS "the angry youth."

So long as terrorism does not hit their own interests, Western press will continue to be terrorist apologists and white washers.

Too bad overwhelming amount of those sponsors of terrorism is let operate in China, including Reuters.

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## Sam.

Good job China.


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## Shotgunner51

TaiShang said:


> Tricky play with the words.
> 
> The Guardian reporting quoted above is even more pathetic. In the second paragraph right after the introduction, they seem to ascribe the sporadic acts of terrorism to some grievances.
> 
> It is same as calling the ISIS "the angry youth."
> 
> So long as terrorism does not hit their own interests, Western press will continue to be terrorist apologists and white washers.
> 
> Too bad overwhelming amount of those sponsors of terrorism is let operate in China, including Reuters.




That's what western media will always do, writing what the west public wants to read - China is bad bad bad - so it's very normal. Yes it will last forever, till the end of time, we know it, no surprise.

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## Dawood Ibrahim

Communist Party office in the far west region of Xinjiang in an attack that killed one person and injured three others.

The report in Tianshan Net, a news portal run by Communist Party officials in Xinjiang, says the incident happened Wednesday afternoon in Moyu county.

It says that four attackers drove vehicles into the county's Communist Party courtyard and detonated homemade explosives, killing one person and injuring three others. It says police shot the four dead at the scene and called it a “terrorist attack”.

The region of Xinjiang has seen violence against civilians in recent years that authorities have blamed on radicals among the mostly Muslim Uighur ethnic minority seeking independence from Beijing.

http://www.dawn.com/news/1305177/4-people-shot-dead-after-attack-in-chinas-xinjiang

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## Kuwaiti Girl

All that really matters is that the terror attack was thwarted and that all four Uighur terrorists were liquidated by the Chinese police with little or no casualties.

The Chinese are very effective in preventing Uighur terrorists from inflicting substantial losses. In fact, China, specifically Xinjiang, is the only place in the world where the number of terrorists killed exceeds the number of victims of terror attacks. This goes to show that China has one of the best and most efficient counterinsurgency and counterterrorism doctrines in the world.

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## Tamilnadu

Do we know the details about the incident,who are the attackers ,what was their motive..


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## Shotgunner51

Doordie said:


> Communist Party office in the far west region of Xinjiang in an attack that killed one person and injured three others.
> 
> The report in Tianshan Net, a news portal run by Communist Party officials in Xinjiang, says the incident happened Wednesday afternoon in Moyu county.
> 
> It says that four attackers drove vehicles into the county's Communist Party courtyard and detonated homemade explosives, killing one person and injuring three others. It says police shot the four dead at the scene and called it a “terrorist attack”.
> 
> The region of Xinjiang has seen violence against civilians in recent years that authorities have blamed on radicals among the mostly Muslim Uighur ethnic minority seeking independence from Beijing.
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1305177/4-people-shot-dead-after-attack-in-chinas-xinjiang



Thanks. It reports the attack, victims, police reaction, results, without immediate labeling the attackers (ethnicity or others), without politicizing the event, no sensational hype, no unrelated or photoshoped pics, no wild conclusion. No surprise, it's reported by a non-west media.

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## 艹艹艹

*BBC: Blah Blah China
China*

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Kuwaiti Girl said:


> All that really matters is that the terror attack was thwarted and that all four Uighur terrorists were liquidated by the Chinese police with little or no casualties.
> 
> The Chinese are very effective in preventing Uighur terrorists from inflicting substantial losses. In fact, China, specifically Xinjiang, is the only place in the world where the number of terrorists killed exceeds the number of victims of terror attacks. This goes to show that China has one of the best and most efficient counterinsurgency and counterterrorism doctrines in the world.



Are you serious?

China is the only country in the world where a violent minority time and time again massacre the majority!

Look at the riots and train station attacks where a handful of hateful fanatics kill many Han Chinese. The situation is ridiculous, the Chinese authorities are too submissive and give too much leeway to the terrorist scum.

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## samsara

Doordie said:


> Communist Party office in the far west region of Xinjiang in an attack that killed one person and injured three others.
> 
> The report in Tianshan Net, a news portal run by Communist Party officials in Xinjiang, says the incident happened Wednesday afternoon in Moyu county.
> 
> It says that four attackers drove vehicles into the county's Communist Party courtyard and detonated homemade explosives, killing one person and injuring three others. It says police shot the four dead at the scene and called it a “terrorist attack”.
> 
> The region of Xinjiang has seen violence against civilians in recent years that authorities have blamed on radicals among the mostly Muslim Uighur ethnic minority seeking independence from Beijing.
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/1305177/4-people-shot-dead-after-attack-in-chinas-xinjiang



It's a SYNDICATED NEWS carried by the ASSOCIATED PRESS (AP), a SUBSIDIARY of REUTERS, owned and controlled by the Rothschild Family, along with the AFP constitute the trio giant news aggregators that dominate the news dissemination industry. Dawn.com is just one of the many carrying vehicles of these news aggregator, and they even post the news in whole up to the comma and period!!!

My suggestion, better clearly state it's an AP-sourced news!

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## Mo12

good job china


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## samsara

Aside from the executioners, the field personnels, the terrorist group must somehow have certain support... I hope the security force will dig out the network more than just the field actors. *The terrorism must be wiped out till its root!!*

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## Farbeyonddriven

Wonder why those bare-hands separatists so volunteer to play the turkeys to be picked off one by one by the Chinese SWAT who are armed to the teeth,go grab some better gears then **** with China


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## nature is

samsara said:


> Aside from the executioners, the field personnels, the terrorist group must somehow have certain support... I hope the security force will dig out the network more than just the field actors. *The terrorism must be wiped out till its root!!*



Tracing their source of fund is key.

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## beijingwalker

You know why Xinjiang by and large is very stable and peaceful where terrorist attacks are becoming very rare in recent years, because China killed much more of terrorists than their killing of civilians, and terrorists themselves think it's not worth it messing with China and turn to targets elsewhere. say, Europe. China is always heavy handed when handling terrorism.

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## SBUS-CXK

Tamilnadu said:


> Do we know the details about the incident,who are the attackers ,what was their motive..


It's true。
But the two times Gujarat state... 100 thousand Muslims are sad. Hope they won't forget, and know the truth.

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## Tamilnadu

Two said:


> It's true。
> But the two times Gujarat state... 100 thousand Muslims are sad. Hope they won't forget, and know the truth.


I understand you want to say something but what you said dsnt make sense..use a proper translator bro..

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## SBUS-CXK

Tamilnadu said:


> I understand you want to say something but what you said dsnt make sense..use a proper translator bro..


OK.
Or that sentence, The Internet age, Who don‘t know who?

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## Rasengan

Good I want China to eradicate these scumbags. These Uighur terrorists caused alot of problem in Pakistan when they joined up with the TTP. Pakistan Army took them to the cleaners.

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## Globenim

They make it sound like the police are the criminals.

Another fine piece of regime controlled "free press" propaganda.

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## third eye

http://www.dawn.com/news/1307561/chinas-xinjiang-tightening-border-amid-terrorist-threats


China is tightening border controls in its northwestern Xinjiang region amid rising terrorism threats, the regional governor was quoted as saying on Tuesday.

State media reported Shohrat Zakir made the pledge in a speech at the region's main annual political meeting on Monday, saying increased measures taken in the last year would be further strengthened.

The crackdown seeks to prevent suspected insurgents both from leaving Xinjiang to fight abroad and from returning to the region after receiving military training overseas, the official China Daily newspaper said.

*Xinjiang has long been home to a simmering insurgency against Beijing's rule waged by extremists among the native Turkic-speaking Uighur ethnic group, who are mainly Muslim and culturally distinct from most Chinese. Many Uighurs already face onerous restrictions on where they can work and travel to, including extreme difficulties in obtaining passports.*

Xinjiang shares a border with Afghanistan, Pakistan and four nations in the often volatile Central Asian region, whose native populations share ethnic, linguistic and religious links with Uighurs. Uighur extremists have also been reported to have joined the fighting in Syria and were blamed for a deadly attack on a Buddhist temple in Thailand.

*Xinjiang has been smothered in heavy security since deadly riots in 2009 *that pitted Uighurs against ethnic Han Chinese migrants in the regional capital of Urumqi. Those measures were tightened further following a wave of attacks blamed on Uighur separatists striking in Xinjiang and other parts of China, including the capital Beijing.

While such incidents have largely been curtailed, three knife-wielding assailants last month attacked staff at a Communist Party office in southern Xinjiang's Hotan region and set off an explosive device, killing two and injuring three others. The attackers were then shot dead by police.

The incident was the first publicly reported fatal attack in months in Xinjiang, where information is strictly controlled and reporting access highly limited.

Prior to that, police in November 2015 killed 28 people who authorities said had killed 11 civilians and five police officers at a remote Xinjiang coal mine controlled by members of China's main Han ethnic group.

Additionally, a Chinese state media outlet reported that three alleged assailants wanted in relation with a 2015 terrorist incident in Hotan were killed in a police raid on Sunday. No details were given.

Beijing's critics say the violence in Xinjiang is prompted by government policies that have marginalised Uighurs in their native region, which has seen a massive influx of Han Chinese who dominate the local economy, security forces and civil service. Some Uighurs are also believed to have been radicalised by extremist ideologies that have spread from Central Asia to the Middle East.


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## TaiShang

Xinjiang is doing pretty good and domestic/foreign tourism booming while the province is enjoying double digit growth.

Xinjiang Hami melons are the yummiest.

@AndrewJin

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## beijingwalker

The last watcher of the Taklamakan desert. The remaining last people still living in the heart of the desert, cut off from the outside world.


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## beijingwalker

Uyghur girl from Xinjiang pretends to be a foreigner asking for directions : Funny

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## faithfulguy

beijingwalker said:


> Uyghur girl from Xinjiang pretends to be a foreigner asking for directions : Funny




I thought most Uighur look East Asian.

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## 艹艹艹



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## eldamar

the underlying message that the video(along with it title) is transmitting is ludicrous.

Foreign-looking(caucasoid-looking, to be exact) = beautiful?

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## Jlaw

she an actress?

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## ideasexchange

*China knife attack: Eight dead in Xinjiang region*

15 February 2017

From the section






Eight people are dead after a knife attack in China's restive Xinjiang region.

Three assailants killed five people and injured 10 others before they were shot dead by police on Tuesday in Pishan county, local officials said.

No motive was given, but the government often blames Muslim separatists for such attacks.

Xinjiang, an autonomous region, is home to China's Uighur ethnic minority, which is predominantly Muslim.

The region has suffered years of unrest.

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## Laozi

ideasexchange said:


> Three assailants killed five people and injured 10 others before they *were shot dead by police* on Tuesday in Pishan county, local officials said.



We must learn from China and practice that in Kashmir

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## Tshering22

Laozi said:


> We must learn from China and practise that in Kashmir



The problem is, we are just too kind to those who don't deserve it.

This is the only thing I completely agree with China for; dealing with terrorism and radicals.

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## P@nThEr

China knows how to show human right groups their aukaad..
We have thousands reporters NGOs who will fight for terrorists & spread propaganda..


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## ZY-CN-CA

Very sad news，*I don't know why change like this！*
Before Xinjiang is a very good place , 10 years ago everyone loved to travel in Xinjiang, beautiful scenery, the people friendly, my parents also have been to Xinjiang for a travel, I also desire to go, but now can't .* Hope to return to the tourist destination, people live in harmony！ *

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## nang2

Laozi said:


> We must learn from China and practice that in Kashmir


Seriously? Ain't India the largest democratic country? You wanted India to be an authoritarian country?



ZY-Chinese brother said:


> Very sad news，*I don't know why change like this！*
> Before Xinjiang is a very good place , 10 years ago everyone loved to travel in Xinjiang, beautiful scenery, the people friendly, my parents also have been to Xinjiang for a travel, I also desire to go, but now can't .* Hope to return to the tourist destination, people live in harmony！ *


Take it easy. Knife fight is very common in that region for decades. I grew up there. It wasn't a big news when someone was stabbed to death. Many uygurs carry knives in their daily life. Their kids skipped schools and wondered in the streets. They were so bored that they even asked by-passers for a fight. I was robbed once at the tip of a knife in broad daylight. My friend was stabbed in his butt in a public bathroom for no reason. The kid that stabbed him also helped him to go to the clinic as if everything was normal. Strange, isn't it? That happened in the large cities where Han Chinese dominated. Imagine what it was like in other cities.

Now, what Chinese government is doing is to stop such a wide spread of violence. They are trying to revert the backfire caused by their original policy that tried to please uygurs. It is going to take many years for uygurs to realize that violence doesn't bring anything good to them. Right now, they still have high hopes on whatever imaginary benefits they may get with violent means.

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## Kuwaiti Girl

China needs to exterminate all remaining Uighur terrorists in Xinjiang.

Good to know that the 3 Uighur assailants were liquidated.

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## Laozi

nang2 said:


> Seriously? Ain't India the largest democratic country? You wanted India to be an authoritarian country?


Terrorism needs to be countered. What China has done to counter terrorism in China is exemplary and we never raise human rights issues against China. But when China veto US and Indian resolution against known terrorist in UN then we openly condemn China.

That's the beauty of a Democracy.

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## nang2

Laozi said:


> Terrorism needs to be countered. What China has done to counter terrorism in China is exemplary and we never raise human rights issues against China. But when China veto US and Indian resolution against known terrorist in UN then we openly condemn China.
> 
> That's the beauty of a Democracy.


I am sorry, pal. Violence against army is not terrorism. Violence against civilians is. You conveniently merge those two types of violence together.

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## Laozi

nang2 said:


> I am sorry, pal. Violence against army is not terrorism. Violence against civilians is. You conveniently merge those two types of violence together.


Okay buddy, next time when these vermin kill cops or any secessionist kills any army man then we will see your response.


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## nang2

Laozi said:


> Okay buddy, next time when these vermin kill cops or any secessionist kills any army man then we will see your response.


We will respond with army/police hunting them down, but not calling them terrorists. Interestingly, in Chinese, the word for them clearly indicates those two types of violence because they attack both civilians and army/police. Americans also use different words for different types of violence, either terrorists or insurgents.

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## Laozi

nang2 said:


> We will respond with army/police hunting them down, but not calling them terrorists. Interestingly, in Chinese, the word for them clearly indicates those two types of violence because they attack both civilians and army/police. Americans also use different words for different types of violence, either terrorists or insurgents.


You will hang them by their b@lls. It doesn't matter if you call them Terrorists, Extremist, Insurgent, Ultraist , Militant or Radical. And that is the correct way !!!!


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## nang2

Laozi said:


> You will hang them by their b@lls. It doesn't matter if you call them Terrorists, Extremist, Insurgent, Ultraist , Militant or Radical. And that is the correct way !!!!


it matters since the rest of humanity is obliged to show sympathy to the victim of terrorism, but not obliged to do so for the one attacked by insurgents. That is why US doesn't call those terrorists killing Chinese civilians as terrorists because they don't want to show the sympathy. For the same reason, India wants to call its own insurgents as terrorists to solicit sympathy from other countries.

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## Laozi

nang2 said:


> it matters since the rest of humanity is obliged to show sympathy to the victim of terrorism, but not obliged to do so for the one attacked by insurgents. That is why US doesn't call those terrorists killing Chinese civilians as terrorists because they don't want to show the sympathy. For the same reason, India wants to call its own insurgents as terrorists to solicit sympathy from other countries.









you are free to believe whatever you believe in.
Bye
Regards


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## Tom99

Tshering22 said:


> The problem is, we are just too kind to those who don't deserve it.
> 
> This is the only thing I completely agree with China for; dealing with terrorism and radicals.



The number of deaths caused by Indian soldiers, police and policies in non-war situation is vastly greater than the similar type of deaths in Xinjiang.

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## Tshering22

Tom99 said:


> The number of deaths caused by Indian soldiers, police and policies in non-war situation is vastly greater than the similar type of deaths in Xinjiang.



Maybe because we let the news out...?

People know about counter terrorist activities because we feel that information shouldn't be kept secret from the public.

If it was supposed to be kept a secret, you won't see any statistics or reports on them. Not to mention, many areas suffering from anti national violence would have been cleaned off in a matter of few months rather than allowing it for decades.


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## 帅的一匹

This is a thread about Chinese Uyghers terrorists killing civilians, please don't drag India in.


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## cirr

*CPEC: China approves huge infrastructure projects for Xinjiang*

17-03-2017






*BEIJING: The Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region will invest heavily in more high-speed railways and highways to build a high-quality transportation network that can truly support the Belt and Road Initiative.*

The region has decided to inject record funding of 170 billion yuan ($24.8 billion) into new roads, up nearly six fold from 2016, and investment in roads, railways and airports this year will top the total funding for transportation infrastructure from 2011 to 2015.

"Poor transportation infrastructure is the biggest obstacle for Xinjiang to become China's trade hub linking countries along the Silk Road Economic Belt," Shokrat Zakir, chairman of the region, said on Sunday.

Northwest China's Xinjiang borders eight countries, including Pakistan and Kazakhstan with a border of more than 5,600 kilometers. Xinjiang was once a key transportation and trade hub on the ancient Silk Road.

During this year's annual session of the National People's Congress, the Xinjiang delegation proposed the construction of high-speed railways linking the regional capital of Urumqi and southern Xinjiang's Kashgar, the starting point of the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), as well as another one connecting Urumqi and northern Xinjiang's Horgos, a land port on the China-Kazakhstan border.

The delegation also proposed starting construction on the China-Kyrgyzstan-Uzbekistan railway, which has long been discussed and planned. The national lawmakers from Xinjiang believe it is urgent to start construction on the railway to enhance economic cooperation with the two Central Asian countries.

A total of 223 westbound trains carrying construction materials, agricultural produce, garments and other merchandise traveled via nine cross-border routes linking Xinjiang to Central Asian countries in 2016, said Hu Kaijiang, director of the Xinjiang Economic and Information Commission.

This year, Xinjiang plans to expand operations to run 400 westbound cross-border trains to facilitate exports of technology and equipment and seek new growth opportunities, Hu said.

Geographic location, rich natural resources and preferential policies introduced to encourage opening-up have given Xinjiang advantages in becoming the core area on the economic belt, Shokrat said. Becoming a key player on the economic belt will also benefit the region's social development.

Besides improving its transportation network, the region will focus on the development of key cities along the economic belt. Xinjiang aims to achieve more than 7 percent economic growth this year and to see "substantial" progress in making the region serve as the transportation, logistic, financial, cultural and medical center on the modern Silk Road, he added.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/latest/1...ves-huge-infrastructure-projects-for-Xinjiang

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## AndrewJin

There are already a huge number of epic infra projects finished.
I'm very excited to know more investments are flooding into Xinjiang.

Hami High-speed Railway Station





















This expressway was not there when I traveled to Northern Xinjiang in 2013.





This expressway now is the shortest road from Urumqi to Kanas National Park at China-Russia-Mongolia border, one of China's most popular national parks, previously less visited due to transportation bottlenecks.






@TaiShang @Götterdämmerung @AViet @Jlaw @PaklovesTurkiye @Gibbs 



Maithil Brahmin said:


> wow In name of CPEC, Xinjiang is getting bullet train and Pakistan gets just ordinary Highway, this is wrong China should build high speed rail network in Pakistan also.


India's controlled-access expressways are shorter than the length of expressways in China's poorest province.
Probably you should consider your own abysmal situation first.
Pakistan will get HSRs when they are ready, China is always there to help.
But you will spend another 3 decades just repeating those feasibility studies again and again.

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## AndrewJin

*Let's continue building Xinjiang's biggest city, also the biggest city of Central Asia.*










*












*

*Subway under construction 



*

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## TaiShang

Maithil Brahmin said:


> wow In name of CPEC, Xinjiang is getting bullet train and Pakistan gets just ordinary Highway, this is wrong China should build high speed rail network in Pakistan also.



The difference is Xinjiang is a province of China in which China has sovereign decision making powers. In Pakistan, sovereignty lies on the Pakistan government; hence, it is Pakistan to decide whether it needs an HSR or a highway would suffice. It can definitely consult with China; but, in the end, it is Pakistan to make cost-benefit analysis.

For the purpose of the CPEC, an efficient highway and normal speed passenger/cargo track would be enough for now, I believe.



AndrewJin said:


> *Let's continue building Xinjiang's biggest city, also the biggest city of Central Asia.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> View attachment 384445
> View attachment 384446
> View attachment 384447
> View attachment 384448
> *
> 
> *Subway under construction
> View attachment 384449
> *



Xinjiang province is quickly being transformed into the economic hub and infrastructure pearl of Central Asia.

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## AndrewJin

This gigantic bridge on the Tianshan Plateau is one part of China's Silk Road Expressway *G30 Lianyungang–Khorgas Expressway *stretching over 4000km from East China Sea to the Sino-Kazakhstan border at the city of Khorgas.

It is the shortest road from China to Kazakhstan, ensuring high-speed road transport across the border.

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## NakedLunch

CPEC is not just an 'economic project'. It is a paradigm shift in geopolitics. The depth and breadth of CPEC will be staggering in the years to come. Guaranteed.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Infrastructure projects should include water project for Xinjiang, without water this region will be limited as economical growth. China should find the way to cover the tarim basin, it's a massive wasted land. Bring water from Tibet is one of the solution or get India's monsoon to moisturized this region, recover this lost land should be the priority of China.

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## MultaniGuy

Good move by China. May Chinese and Pakistani cooperation reach ever new heights.

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## TruthHurtz

it is clear that China cares for Xinjiang and its people.

why would islamists and pan-turkists assume otherwise?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Maithil Brahmin said:


> wow In name of CPEC, Xinjiang is getting bullet train and Pakistan gets just ordinary Highway, this is wrong China should build high speed rail network in Pakistan also.



With bullet train, all region in China shall be united under 24 hrs living radius which mean it takes only less than 12 hrs from Beijing to Urumqi. High speed train also will allow Chinese to fulfill the dream to build inter-mega cities such as in "blade runner movie" which one building block can contain over 10000 apartments, American make science fiction movie, we will realize their dream.

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## shadows888

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Infrastructure projects should include water project for Xinjiang, without water this region will be limited as economical growth. China should find the way to cover the tarim basin, it's a massive wasted land. Bring water from Tibet is one of the solution or get India's monsoon to moisturized this region, recover this lost land should be the priority of China.



i don't even know how that would even work. the problem with Tarim Basin is because of the permanent shadow cast by the Himalayas cause it's a tall a mountain.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

shadows888 said:


> i don't even know how that would even work. the problem with Tarim Basin is because of the permanent shadow cast by the Himalayas cause it's a tall a mountain.



it's so simple if China has intention to do so, it's an 3 easy steps process, of course China will have spend resource such man power and $$$ to do that. we have the technology to do so

step 1: Blast the mountain





Step 2: create a cloud corridor





Step 3: use rain rocket to collect the rain

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

China blossoming into something beautiful , great combination of new architecture and natural beauti

I am big fan of the Largest Dam project in China , a true marvel of modern science and Human Achievment to tackle floods

Lovely country

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Infrastructure projects should include water project for Xinjiang, without water this region will be limited as economical growth. China should find the way to cover the tarim basin, it's a massive wasted land. Bring water from Tibet is one of the solution or get India's monsoon to moisturized this region, recover this lost land should be the priority of China.


China has the tech to draw the monsoon rain from India to Xinjiang. Just a matter of when

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> China has the tech to draw the monsoon rain from India to Xinjiang. Just a matter of when



Chinese specialists had debated to bring sea water to Xinjiang but the only draw back is that salt water and can contaminate the soil, to desalinate the water will be very costly so bring Tibet water and Monsoon are alternative but we don't know the cost but definitely China want to solve Xinjiang's water issue, when Chinese government decide on something it will be unstoppable such as south north water transfer.






nice video of south-north water transfer

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Chinese specialists had debated to bring sea water to Xinjiang but the only draw back is that salt water and can contaminate the soil, to desalinate the water will be very costly so bring Tibet water and Monsoon are alternative but we don't know the cost but definitely China want to solve Xinjiang's water issue, when Chinese government decide on something it will be in-stoppable such as south north water transfer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nice video of south-north water transfer


Bringing monsoon rain from India is cheaper. I like that option .

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Bringing monsoon rain from India is cheaper. I like that option .

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## shadows888

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> it's so simple if China has intention to do so, it's an 3 easy steps process, of course China will have spend resource such man power and $$$ to do that. we have the technology to do so
> 
> step 1: Blast the mountain
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step 2: create a cloud corridor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Step 3: use rain rocket to collect the rain



no then you will have bunch of other problems.. like a border with india. LOL

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## terranMarine

Indians will complain that China is stealing Indian rainwater

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

shadows888 said:


> no then you will have bunch of other problems.. like a border with india. LOL



If we do thing within our boundary and inside our territory, it's not India's business, blasting China's mountain is within our right, they can cry a river and the worst could happen is that these Indians will sing Dalai Lama song over and over again

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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> Indians will complain that China is stealing Indian rainwater


There's no treaty of any kind regarding water. India threaten BD with water war all the time.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> There's no treaty of any kind regarding water. India threaten BD with water war all the time.



When I look at this video, BD people have all my sympathy on which they have to depend on India water for their own survival, lucky we Chinese are not at the mercy of India for water.

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> When I look at this video, BD people have all my sympathy on which they have to depend on India water for their own survival, lucky we Chinese are not at the mercy of India for water.


Exactly. I don't know why the **** CPC keep playing nice with Hindus. China controls the main of brahmasupra river . Stop the flow to India and blast those mountains on China side to get monsoon rain.

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## shadows888

Suika said:


> China's modernization and infrastructure developments themselves are great for China. But there is a lot of suffering happening in Xinjiang from the government's heavy handed policies.
> 
> Rebiya Kadeer: President of World Uyghur Congress. It's her 7th time visiting Japan. The video below is from October 2015. The text below is a lot of what she talks about from her 20 min presentation and the Q&A in the video. Take it for what you can. Possibility of exaggerations, etc. But access for reporters to investigate seems very limited.
> 
> The situation in East Turkestan (Xinjiang) has become worse under Xi Jinping. 1,000s of Uyghur have ran away from East Turkestan to neighboring countries while PRC continues to claim that they brought prosperity to the region. Before him, Uyghur protesters would typically get arrested and go through a trial with the decision of death or jail time. Now the police are quicker to just shoot to kill rather than arresting.
> 
> An example of an incident giving that happened on July 27th, 2014, a group of women wanted to pray in a house while the men were praying at a Mosque during Ramadan. The Chinese security forces broke into the house on the basis of illegal religious activity and killed 12 people including a 3 year old and a 70 year old woman. When the Uyghur men returned, they naturally protested the brutality, moving the dead bodies to in front of a police station. The Uyghur wanted those that made the raid into the house to be punished. But the police just opened fire on the protesting Uyghurs resulting in 100s dead including children. Chinese media Xinhua reported it as China security forces killing terrorists. Then the Chinese military launched an operation using helicopters against 3 villages resulting 100s more killed. The international media just quoted Xinhua as to what happened. But when international reporters went into Xinjiang to investigate, the Xinhua admitted that there was a crackdown. There was a smilar use of helicopters attacking a village in the year before.
> 
> Under the title of War on Terror, the each Uyghur is easily made suspect by the Chinese security forces under Xi Jinping. All people in China receive an identification card. But unlike all the other cards, the Uyghur cards have a chip inside which will make a sound whenever scanned, thus prompting a search on the individual Uyghur.
> 
> There is police and military forces all over so incidents of violence and disappearances happen everyday through out East Turkestan. The Chinese government claims it is all internal affairs so they say that the international community has no right to interfere but Rebiya Kadeer is claiming that the situation warrants international interference because of how bad the situation has become.
> 
> To a question about the Thai bombing suspecting Uyghur action and the killing of Han Chinese by knives at Kunming train station, her reply was that such actions are condemned World Uighur Congress. But she went on saying that in the case of the Kunming train station incident, the Chinese had a secret trial with the captured suspects and killed three of them. No information was released so the World Uighur Congress is trying to gather information they can about it and that things can't be confirmed because of how the Chinese government handled handles it. Another point was that 20 years ago, such high tensions between the Han and Uyghur didn't exist although the Uyghurs were always suppressed. But that it has gotten far worse and that is causing the Uyghurs to become violent recently. An example to another question was of religious repression. Chinese security forces forced Uygurs to eat in front of them during Ramadan, a period when they don't normally eat.
> 
> Another point during the Q&A, the Chinese government keeps the Uyghurs that live within Chinese borders separate from international news. So they have no idea what goes on outside of China. If any is caught listening to international news, they get 10-12 years jail time.
> 
> Another point is that the World Uighur Congress wishes countries to have good relations and economic relations with China but they wish for those democratic countries to raise the issues in Xinjiang and the repression of the Uyghur people when dealing with China.
> 
> In 2006, China made a policy of transfering Uyghur girls and women from East Turkestan into the mainland and in 2007 they said they transferred 24,000 girls, completing the policy. Any parents that resisted were accused as terrorists and put in jail. SInce then, the Chinese government continued to transfer girls. The excuse giving is that they are providing jobs. But that has to be a lie because on the flip side, China is transferring many Han to East Turkestan and building housing, etc, for them to work. SO jobs could have been provided for the girls in East Turkestan, so goes that argument. Uyghurs don't have the right to work in the resource rich land of East Turkestan (Xinjiang). 86% of the Uyghur population are farmers but the Chinese have been confiscating the farm land and when the Uygurs protests, they get beaten. Every Uyghur family has someone that has spend years in prison.



World Uyghur Congress = CIA propaganda unit.

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## AndrewJin

shadows888 said:


> World Uyghur Congress = CIA propaganda unit.


Only retarded will fall into their propaganda. Unfortunately, there are such people.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Suika said:


> China's modernization and infrastructure developments themselves are great for China. But there is a lot of suffering happening in Xinjiang from the government's heavy handed policies.
> 
> Rebiya Kadeer: President of World Uyghur Congress. It's her 7th time visiting Japan. The video below is from October 2015. The text below is a lot of what she talks about from her 20 min presentation and the Q&A in the video. Take it for what you can. Possibility of exaggerations, etc. But access for reporters to investigate seems very limited.
> 
> The situation in East Turkestan (Xinjiang) has become worse under Xi Jinping. 1,000s of Uyghur have ran away from East Turkestan to neighboring countries while PRC continues to claim that they brought prosperity to the region. Before him, Uyghur protesters would typically get arrested and go through a trial with the decision of death or jail time. Now the police are quicker to just shoot to kill rather than arresting.
> 
> An example of an incident giving that happened on July 27th, 2014, a group of women wanted to pray in a house while the men were praying at a Mosque during Ramadan. The Chinese security forces broke into the house on the basis of illegal religious activity and killed 12 people including a 3 year old and a 70 year old woman. When the Uyghur men returned, they naturally protested the brutality, moving the dead bodies to in front of a police station. The Uyghur wanted those that made the raid into the house to be punished. But the police just opened fire on the protesting Uyghurs resulting in 100s dead including children. Chinese media Xinhua reported it as China security forces killing terrorists. Then the Chinese military launched an operation using helicopters against 3 villages resulting 100s more killed. The international media just quoted Xinhua as to what happened. But when international reporters went into Xinjiang to investigate, the Xinhua admitted that there was a crackdown. There was a smilar use of helicopters attacking a village in the year before.
> 
> Under the title of War on Terror, the each Uyghur is easily made suspect by the Chinese security forces under Xi Jinping. All people in China receive an identification card. But unlike all the other cards, the Uyghur cards have a chip inside which will make a sound whenever scanned, thus prompting a search on the individual Uyghur.
> 
> There is police and military forces all over so incidents of violence and disappearances happen everyday through out East Turkestan. The Chinese government claims it is all internal affairs so they say that the international community has no right to interfere but Rebiya Kadeer is claiming that the situation warrants international interference because of how bad the situation has become.
> 
> To a question about the Thai bombing suspecting Uyghur action and the killing of Han Chinese by knives at Kunming train station, her reply was that such actions are condemned World Uighur Congress. But she went on saying that in the case of the Kunming train station incident, the Chinese had a secret trial with the captured suspects and killed three of them. No information was released so the World Uighur Congress is trying to gather information they can about it and that things can't be confirmed because of how the Chinese government handled handles it. Another point was that 20 years ago, such high tensions between the Han and Uyghur didn't exist although the Uyghurs were always suppressed. But that it has gotten far worse and that is causing the Uyghurs to become violent recently. An example to another question was of religious repression. Chinese security forces forced Uygurs to eat in front of them during Ramadan, a period when they don't normally eat.
> 
> Another point during the Q&A, the Chinese government keeps the Uyghurs that live within Chinese borders separate from international news. So they have no idea what goes on outside of China. If any is caught listening to international news, they get 10-12 years jail time.
> 
> Another point is that the World Uighur Congress wishes countries to have good relations and economic relations with China but they wish for those democratic countries to raise the issues in Xinjiang and the repression of the Uyghur people when dealing with China.
> 
> In 2006, China made a policy of transfering Uyghur girls and women from East Turkestan into the mainland and in 2007 they said they transferred 24,000 girls, completing the policy. Any parents that resisted were accused as terrorists and put in jail. SInce then, the Chinese government continued to transfer girls. The excuse giving is that they are providing jobs. But that has to be a lie because on the flip side, China is transferring many Han to East Turkestan and building housing, etc, for them to work. SO jobs could have been provided for the girls in East Turkestan, so goes that argument. Uyghurs don't have the right to work in the resource rich land of East Turkestan (Xinjiang). 86% of the Uyghur population are farmers but the Chinese have been confiscating the farm land and when the Uygurs protests, they get beaten. Every Uyghur family has someone that has spend years in prison.



Old Japanese trick, this remind me of @Nihonjin1051 when first he came to make flame bait thread and comments  .

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## xyxmt

Damn you Chinese, I hate you for building such beautiful cities in no time.

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## MultaniGuy

Best of luck to China in building her country.

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## samsara

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> When I look at this video, BD people have all my sympathy on which they have to depend on India water for their own survival, lucky we Chinese are not at the mercy of India for water.


What a great irony knowing that India make complaints often to China about the waters management, that China is building many dams on the upper rivers. Understanding the northwestern region of China still lacks of water seriously, can China divert some of the water to its NW region (Xinjiang, Gansu, Inner Mongolia), something similar to the South-North Water Diversion project?

I think Bangladesh should build a dam on its own side to manage the water mentioned in above video, as not being too much and too little, maintain a smoother fluctuation of water level.



Suika said:


> China's modernization and infrastructure developments themselves are great for China. But there is a lot of suffering happening in Xinjiang from the government's heavy handed policies.
> 
> Rebiya Kadeer: President of World Uyghur Congress. It's her 7th time visiting Japan. The video below is from October 2015. The text below is a lot of what she talks about from her 20 min presentation and the Q&A in the video. Take it for what you can. Possibility of exaggerations, etc. But access for reporters to investigate seems very limited.
> 
> The situation in East Turkestan (Xinjiang) has become worse under Xi Jinping. 1,000s of Uyghur have ran away from East Turkestan to neighboring countries while PRC continues to claim that they brought prosperity to the region. Before him, Uyghur protesters would typically get arrested and go through a trial with the decision of death or jail time. Now the police are quicker to just shoot to kill rather than arresting.
> 
> An example of an incident giving that happened on July 27th, 2014, a group of women wanted to pray in a house while the men were praying at a Mosque during Ramadan. The Chinese security forces broke into the house on the basis of illegal religious activity and killed 12 people including a 3 year old and a 70 year old woman. When the Uyghur men returned, they naturally protested the brutality, moving the dead bodies to in front of a police station. The Uyghur wanted those that made the raid into the house to be punished. But the police just opened fire on the protesting Uyghurs resulting in 100s dead including children. Chinese media Xinhua reported it as China security forces killing terrorists. Then the Chinese military launched an operation using helicopters against 3 villages resulting 100s more killed. The international media just quoted Xinhua as to what happened. But when international reporters went into Xinjiang to investigate, the Xinhua admitted that there was a crackdown. There was a smilar use of helicopters attacking a village in the year before.
> 
> Under the title of War on Terror, the each Uyghur is easily made suspect by the Chinese security forces under Xi Jinping. All people in China receive an identification card. But unlike all the other cards, the Uyghur cards have a chip inside which will make a sound whenever scanned, thus prompting a search on the individual Uyghur.
> 
> There is police and military forces all over so incidents of violence and disappearances happen everyday through out East Turkestan. The Chinese government claims it is all internal affairs so they say that the international community has no right to interfere but Rebiya Kadeer is claiming that the situation warrants international interference because of how bad the situation has become.
> 
> To a question about the Thai bombing suspecting Uyghur action and the killing of Han Chinese by knives at Kunming train station, her reply was that such actions are condemned World Uighur Congress. But she went on saying that in the case of the Kunming train station incident, the Chinese had a secret trial with the captured suspects and killed three of them. No information was released so the World Uighur Congress is trying to gather information they can about it and that things can't be confirmed because of how the Chinese government handled handles it. Another point was that 20 years ago, such high tensions between the Han and Uyghur didn't exist although the Uyghurs were always suppressed. But that it has gotten far worse and that is causing the Uyghurs to become violent recently. An example to another question was of religious repression. Chinese security forces forced Uygurs to eat in front of them during Ramadan, a period when they don't normally eat.
> 
> Another point during the Q&A, the Chinese government keeps the Uyghurs that live within Chinese borders separate from international news. So they have no idea what goes on outside of China. If any is caught listening to international news, they get 10-12 years jail time.
> 
> Another point is that the World Uighur Congress wishes countries to have good relations and economic relations with China but they wish for those democratic countries to raise the issues in Xinjiang and the repression of the Uyghur people when dealing with China.
> 
> In 2006, China made a policy of transfering Uyghur girls and women from East Turkestan into the mainland and in 2007 they said they transferred 24,000 girls, completing the policy. Any parents that resisted were accused as terrorists and put in jail. SInce then, the Chinese government continued to transfer girls. The excuse giving is that they are providing jobs. But that has to be a lie because on the flip side, China is transferring many Han to East Turkestan and building housing, etc, for them to work. SO jobs could have been provided for the girls in East Turkestan, so goes that argument. Uyghurs don't have the right to work in the resource rich land of East Turkestan (Xinjiang). 86% of the Uyghur population are farmers but the Chinese have been confiscating the farm land and when the Uygurs protests, they get beaten. Every Uyghur family has someone that has spend years in prison.


And why did you bring the CIA PROPAGANDA here? Rebiya is just a still useful proxy for CIA, just the same as the CIA Monk but they will fade out soon, leaving out as disgrace to the people, some personalities who are making profits speaking out against the true interests of the people and trying to create trouble from time to time.

They are not blind and too smart for not seeing the real progresses there, but their vested interests dictate they must act and serve as steady antagonistic mouthpieces of their masters and parroting the CIA agendas!

You must feel shameful and ask yourself, what these people (Rebiya, CIA Monk) had contributed to the people's livelihood in the past when they had opportunity for that? Today these old people *simply making living out of selling lies* against the interests of the very people they're falsely saying to protect. Nonetheless they are just serving as small nuisances but won't slow down the actual progress at all!

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## AndrewJin

samsara said:


> What a great irony knowing that India make complaints often to China about the waters management, that China is building many dams on the upper rivers. Understanding the northwestern region of China still lacks of water seriously, can China divert some of the water to its NW region (Xinjiang, Gansu, Inner Mongolia), something similar to the South-North Water Diversion project?
> 
> I think Bangladesh should build a dam on its own side to manage the water mentioned in above video, as not being too much and too little, maintain a smoother fluctuation of water level.
> 
> 
> And why did you bring the CIA PROPAGANDA here? Rebiya is just a still useful proxy for CIA, just the same as the CIA Monk but they will fade out soon, leaving out as disgrace to the people, some personalities who are making profits speaking out against the true interests of the people and trying to create trouble from time to time.
> They are not blind and too smart for not seeing the real progresses there, but their vested interests dictate they must act and serve as steady antagonistic mouthpieces of their masters and parroting the CIA agendas!
> 
> You must feel shameful and ask yourself, what these people (Rebiya, CIA Monk) had contributed to the people's livelihood in the past when they had opportunity for that? Today these old people *simply making living out of selling lies* against the interests of the very people they're falsely saying to protect. Nonetheless they are just serving as small nuisances but won't slow down the actual progress at all!



They are so supportive of slave owners....

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## bananarepublic

Suika said:


> China's modernization and infrastructure developments themselves are great for China. But there is a lot of suffering happening in Xinjiang from the government's heavy handed policies.
> 
> Rebiya Kadeer: President of World Uyghur Congress. It's her 7th time visiting Japan. The video below is from October 2015. The text below is a lot of what she talks about from her 20 min presentation and the Q&A in the video. Take it for what you can. Possibility of exaggerations, etc. But access for reporters to investigate seems very limited.
> 
> The situation in East Turkestan (Xinjiang) has become worse under Xi Jinping. 1,000s of Uyghur have ran away from East Turkestan to neighboring countries while PRC continues to claim that they brought prosperity to the region. Before him, Uyghur protesters would typically get arrested and go through a trial with the decision of death or jail time. Now the police are quicker to just shoot to kill rather than arresting.
> 
> An example of an incident giving that happened on July 27th, 2014, a group of women wanted to pray in a house while the men were praying at a Mosque during Ramadan. The Chinese security forces broke into the house on the basis of illegal religious activity and killed 12 people including a 3 year old and a 70 year old woman. When the Uyghur men returned, they naturally protested the brutality, moving the dead bodies to in front of a police station. The Uyghur wanted those that made the raid into the house to be punished. But the police just opened fire on the protesting Uyghurs resulting in 100s dead including children. Chinese media Xinhua reported it as China security forces killing terrorists. Then the Chinese military launched an operation using helicopters against 3 villages resulting 100s more killed. The international media just quoted Xinhua as to what happened. But when international reporters went into Xinjiang to investigate, the Xinhua admitted that there was a crackdown. There was a smilar use of helicopters attacking a village in the year before.
> 
> Under the title of War on Terror, the each Uyghur is easily made suspect by the Chinese security forces under Xi Jinping. All people in China receive an identification card. But unlike all the other cards, the Uyghur cards have a chip inside which will make a sound whenever scanned, thus prompting a search on the individual Uyghur.
> 
> There is police and military forces all over so incidents of violence and disappearances happen everyday through out East Turkestan. The Chinese government claims it is all internal affairs so they say that the international community has no right to interfere but Rebiya Kadeer is claiming that the situation warrants international interference because of how bad the situation has become.
> 
> To a question about the Thai bombing suspecting Uyghur action and the killing of Han Chinese by knives at Kunming train station, her reply was that such actions are condemned World Uighur Congress. But she went on saying that in the case of the Kunming train station incident, the Chinese had a secret trial with the captured suspects and killed three of them. No information was released so the World Uighur Congress is trying to gather information they can about it and that things can't be confirmed because of how the Chinese government handled handles it. Another point was that 20 years ago, such high tensions between the Han and Uyghur didn't exist although the Uyghurs were always suppressed. But that it has gotten far worse and that is causing the Uyghurs to become violent recently. An example to another question was of religious repression. Chinese security forces forced Uygurs to eat in front of them during Ramadan, a period when they don't normally eat.
> 
> Another point during the Q&A, the Chinese government keeps the Uyghurs that live within Chinese borders separate from international news. So they have no idea what goes on outside of China. If any is caught listening to international news, they get 10-12 years jail time.
> 
> Another point is that the World Uighur Congress wishes countries to have good relations and economic relations with China but they wish for those democratic countries to raise the issues in Xinjiang and the repression of the Uyghur people when dealing with China.
> 
> In 2006, China made a policy of transfering Uyghur girls and women from East Turkestan into the mainland and in 2007 they said they transferred 24,000 girls, completing the policy. Any parents that resisted were accused as terrorists and put in jail. SInce then, the Chinese government continued to transfer girls. The excuse giving is that they are providing jobs. But that has to be a lie because on the flip side, China is transferring many Han to East Turkestan and building housing, etc, for them to work. SO jobs could have been provided for the girls in East Turkestan, so goes that argument. Uyghurs don't have the right to work in the resource rich land of East Turkestan (Xinjiang). 86% of the Uyghur population are farmers but the Chinese have been confiscating the farm land and when the Uygurs protests, they get beaten. Every Uyghur family has someone that has spend years in prison.




Please if it was not for the Chinese government they would have still been in the dark ages . Did u know that Xinjiang had slave markets in the early 1900s the only surviving slave market and they had nothing no infrastructure no jobs.
they are more happy it is all a propaganda the image being portrayed by the western media is all wrong if u go and see for ur self it is completely different.

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## jkroo

AndrewJin said:


> They are so supportive of slave owners....


First of all they are criminals, then slave masters, last but not least traitors.

Jealousy always show up when the development plan was proposed. This is the deadly truth here. LOL.

I have all the confidences that the huge plan will be successfully completed with no delay. A prosperous Pakistan and richer Pakistanis will be there in decades. Let's work harder, guys.

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## Zibago

Xinjiang universities to offer Urdu, Farsi classes
Two universities in north-west China’s Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region will add Urdu and Farsi (Persian) to their undergraduate curriculum.

Shihezi University and Xinjiang Normal University based in Urumqi are setting up Urdu and Farsi departments, respectively, and start enrolling students nationwide this summer, according to a Shihezi University press release on Monday.

Urdu is the official language of Pakistan. In 2013, China and Pakistan started to build the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, a 3,000-km network of roads, railways and pipelines linking Xinjiang’s Kashgar and south-west Pakistan’s Gwadar Port.

Farsi is the official language in Iran and Tajikistan, and a major language in Afghanistan.

Currently, only six universities in China offer Farsi as a major, producing less than 500 people proficient in the language,

Xinjiang’s increasing cooperation in trade and counter-terrorism with Farsi-speaking countries requires more advanced Farsi language learners, it said.
http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2017/03/27/xinjiang-universities-to-offer-urdu-farsi-classes/

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Now Sinjan Turkic folks are reestablishing the historical connections with their neighbors. IMO, this is one of the least talked about plusses of CPEC ...

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## thesolar65

BEIJING: China will step up a campaign against religious extremism in the far western region of Xinjiang on Saturday by implementing a range of measures, including prohibiting "abnormal" beards, the wearing of veils in public places and the refusal to watch state television. 

Hundreds of people have died in recent years in Xinjiang, home to the Muslim Uighur people, in unrest blamed by Beijing on Islamist militants and separatists, though rights groups say the violence is more a reaction to repressive Chinese policies. 

The government strongly denies committing any abuses in Xinjiang and insists the legal, cultural and religious rights of Uighurs, a Turkic ethnic group, are fully protected. 

While China officially guarantees freedom of religion, authorities have issued a series of measures in the past few years to tackle what it sees as a rise in religious extremism. 

New legislation, passed by Xinjiang lawmakers on Wednesday and published on the region's official news website, widens existing rules and will come into effect on April 1. 

Workers in public spaces like stations and airports will be required to "dissuade" those who fully cover their bodies, including veiling their faces, from entering, and to report them to the police, the rules state. 

It will be banned to "reject or refuse radio, television and other public facilities and services", marrying using religious rather than legal procedures and "using the name of Halal to meddle in the secular life of others". 

"Parents should use good moral conduct to influence their children, educate them to revere science, pursue culture, uphold ethnic unity and refuse and oppose extremism," the rules say. 

The document also bans not allowing children to attend regular school, not abiding by family planning policies, deliberately damaging legal documents and "abnormal growing of beards and naming of children to exaggerate religious fervour". 

A number of bans on select "extremist behaviours" had previously been introduced in some places in Xinjiang, including stopping people with head scarves, veils and long beards from boarding buses in at least one city. 

The new rules expand the list and apply them to the whole region. 

While Uighurs have traditionally practiced a more relaxed form of Islam, the popularity of veils for women in particular has grown in recent years in what experts say is an expression of opposition to Chinese controls.

*Top Comment*
I am eager to know Indian jholawalas/ award wapasi gang's comment on the issue.Arch Pagan

After a period of relative calm, there has been a rise in violence in recent months in the Xinjiang's southern Uighur heartland and a large increase in security. 

Chinese President Xi Jinping called for a "great wall of iron" to safeguard Xinjiang during the annual meeting of China's parliament earlier this month.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...xtremism-in-xinjiang/articleshow/57909581.cms


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## Soulspeek

Another source...
https://asiancorrespondent.com/2017...hting-extremism-xinjiang/#FqKejhvxI2WqdtXI.97


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## AViet

Still thousands times better than being a Muslim in the world largest democrazy of India, to be honest.

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## Russell

I await the torrent of 'their country...their rule' posts

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## Ashesh

AViet said:


> Still thousands times better than being a Muslim in the world largest democrazy of India, to be honest.



  

On Topic: Their County, Their Rules!

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## Jugger

China knows perfectly that religion should not interfere too much in national politics, otherwise religion would grow too powerful and will then start to dictate terms to the government.


thesolar65 said:


> Parents should use good moral conduct to influence their children, educate them to revere science, pursue culture, uphold ethnic unity and refuse and oppose extremism," the rules say.


I completely agree with the above statement.

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## faithfulguy

Jugger said:


> China knows perfectly that religion should not interfere too much in national politics, otherwise religion would grow too powerful and will then start to dictate terms to the government.
> 
> I completely agree with the above statement.



There is a reason that China is where it is today. It's very secular. The battle for China is not its market, but it's souls. Chinese don't regard Confucius as a religion. So it has three choices, Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Represented by the west, Middle East and India. I think all three places need a strategy to win the Chinese soul.

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## kankan326

Wahabbi invaded China. China kicks it out. Simple and fair enough.

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## Laozi

May China lead the world in innovating techniques to combat Extremism

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## samsara

It is always advisable to eradicate ANY extremism using religions as pretexts, best to turn the brainwashed ones into the civilized, useful and productive members of society, if possible... otherwise harsh measures must be taken!

In particular the foreign funded systematical infiltrators are dire threats to the people's livelihood, harmony and national unity as well as national security, therefore such threats must be dealt quite seriously from the outset. A proactive prevention is even preferable!! Never allow such radical bigots to control the society for they may collapse that society and ruin a nation!!

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## Lotus_stalk

India needs to learn a lot from China...


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## 武成王

The government only care those young people with beards, which is considered a signal of potentially radical one, it's not a problem for old man, many old Uyghur men have long beards. Burqa esp. those are all black colored which cover all body except eyes are also considered a bad signal for woman, it will scare people in public. Anybody who says China repress Uyghur should visit Xinjiang to have a close look at what's going on there. It's not expensive.

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## samsara

Lotus_stalk said:


> India needs to learn a lot from China...


Frankly, YES... perhaps it may result in the speedier improvements over the people's livelihood in that subcontinent. Better learn from the successful patron... and not just limited to this affair but also in many other aspects of real life

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## prashantazazel

Stuff like this is desperately needed in India. People here waste a lot of time and resources in the pursuit of backwardness. 
China is behaving like a true leader.


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## TaiShang

Right precautions taken in the right time, considering that religious extremism is now more sophisticated and there are more means to spread it across national boundaries.

China does not think, act, or treat its citizens or others based on religious norms.

If some people/governments are still living in the age of religion overbearing national borders, it is too bad for them, because China does not prescribe any importance on religious affinity beyond a cultural-related respect towards diversity and colorfulness.

But if a religion is turning into a death cult by transforming people into zombies through heavy indoctrination, dress code symbolism, extreme display of religiosity in the public realm and woman's subjugation, that cult will be fought against until it is entirely eradicated. Our people have no sympathy towards them and will be standing by the government in implementing those measures.

In China, follow the national norms, cultural dress codes, and ways of public conduct that have been developed over the millennia; do not import foreign ideology, doctrines and codes of conduct.

It should not be that difficult if one is a citizen of China. If there is so much fondness toward a foreign dress code and public conduct, those are free to leave China and live in their choice of religious polity.

Chinese state does not subscribe to any religion and does not tolerate foreign-oriented extreme religiosity.

***
*New Xinjiang regulation aims to prevent extremism*
By Mao Weihua and Cui Jia | China Daily | Updated: 2017-03-31

Lawmakers in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region have passed China's first legislation on anti-extremism to prevent terrorism from spreading in the region.

The regulation, adopted on Wednesday by the Xinjiang People's Congress,* prohibits people in the region from wearing full-face coverings and long beards, which are deemed to promote extremism.*

*Thirteen other behaviors that indicate extremism are also banned*, such as *forcing others not to associate with people from other ethnic groups* and *extending the concept of halal, Islamic dietary law, to apply to things other than food.*

The regulation, the full text of which was released on Thursday,* will take effect on April 1.*

"In Xinjiang, *the root of terrorist activities is separatism*, and *its ideological foundation is extremism*," Nayim Yessen, director of the Standing Commitee of the regional legislature, said at a news conference on Thursday.

It took the regional legislature about *two years to draft and pass the regulation*, which Xinjiang "desperately needs", he said.

"It will help the region to normalize the works on eliminating extremism and ensure such activities can be handled in accordance with the law," Nayim said.

Also, for the first time in China, the regulation clarifies the *definition of extremism*, saying it is *"to use radical religious beliefs to interfere with others' lifestyles and comments",* said Qin Wei, director of the regional legislature's legislative affairs commission.

Violators will be cautioned first before being punished in accordance with China's Anti-Terrorism Law and Criminal Law.

*"The new regulation mainly focuses on prevention and education rather than punishment,"* Qin said.

Chen Tong, president of Xinjiang Normal University's Law School, said the regulation will also help law enforcers to distinguish between extremism and religious activities, which should be protected and not affected during the fight against extremism.

Xinjiang, a region in Northwest China that borders on eight countries, including Pakistan and Afghanistan, has been China's main battleground in the fight against terrorism and the penetration of extremism from abroad.

Earlier this month, President Xi Jinping called for a "great wall of iron" to safeguard Xinjiang.

Chen Quanguo, Party chief of Xinjiang, sees keeping the region stable as a major political task.

Shawkat Yiming, a senior Party official of Xinjiang, said: "Extremism is like drugs that can drive people insane and turn normal people into cruel killers. As long as extremism exists, terrorism will spread like cancer."

Eliminating extremism in Xinjiang is a matter of regional stability and national security, he said, adding that although the region has achieved some success in combating extremism, the situation remains grim.

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## aryadravida_exmuslim

India should learn from this and similarly crack down on RSS and its affiliate Senas as well as any Wahabbi tendency, however small.

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## nadeemkhan110

Government claims it is cracking down on 'extremism' but human rights groups say religious freedom under attack





Xinjiang is home to China's largest Muslim population because of the high proportion of ethnic Uyghurs Getty Images
China has banned burqas, veils and “abnormal” beards in a predominantly Muslim province in what it claims is a crackdown on religious extremism.

The measures, which also force people to watch state television, follow decades of ethnic and religious discrimination against Xinjiang’s 10 million-strong ethic Uyghur population.

New regulations, to come into force on Saturday, require government workers in airports, railway stations and other public places “dissuade” women who fully cover their faces and bodies from entering and report them to police.




*China bans parents from 'luring children into religion' in province*
They also prohibit the “abnormal growing of beards and naming of children to exaggerate religious fervour”, without giving specifics.

It will be forbidden to “reject or refuse radio, television and other public facilities and services”, marrying using religious rather than legal procedures and “using the name of Halal to meddle in the secular life of others”.

Rules published in state-controlled media continue: “Parents should use good moral conduct to influence their children, educate them to revere science, pursue culture, uphold ethnic unity and refuse and oppose extremism.”

The document also bans not allowing children to attend regular school, not abiding by family planning policies and deliberately damaging legal documents.

Successive bans on select "extremist behaviours" have previously been introduced in in areas of Xinjiang, including stopping people with headscarves, veils and long beards from boarding buses in at least one city.

The 15 new rules expand an existing list and apply them to the whole province in what the Chinese government claims is a campaign against religious extremism.

Xinjiang, which borders Pakistan and Muslim-majority nations including Kazakhstan, is home to the greatest concentration of Muslims in China because of its significant ethnic Uyghur population.

But restrictions are enforced on the practice of Islam, as well as China’s four other officially recognised religions, and the new rules threaten further punishment.

Hundreds of people have died in the ongoing conflict between separatists and the Chinese government in the autonomous region, which sits on China’s far north-western border.

Beijing has blamed the unrest on Islamist militants, though rights groups say the violence is a reaction to repressive Chinese policies and separatists claim the region has been illegally occupied since 1949.

Peaceful protests have taken place alongside bombings and other violent attacks on Chinese security forces and institutions.

A rise in violence has triggered a large increase in security, with President Xi Jinping calling for a "great wall of iron" to safeguard the region during the annual meeting of China's parliament earlier this month.

Deadly attack on market stalls in China's Xinjiang region

The government strongly denies committing any abuses in Xinjiang and insists the legal, cultural and religious rights of Uyghur, a Turkic ethnic group, are fully protected.

China officially guarantees freedom of religion but authorities have issued a series of measures in recent years to tackle what it sees as a rise in “extremism”, while expanding its military presence in the region.





READ MORE
*China expels French journalist, accusing her of 'supporting terrorism'*
The popularity of Islamic veils including the niqab and burqa, which cover the face, has been rising among Uyghurs in recent years, in what experts say is an expression of opposition to Chinese controls.

Human Rights Watch’s 2017 world report accused Beijing of increasing “restrictions on fundamental human rights and pervasive ethnic and religious discrimination”, noting that details of “counter-terror” operations are scarce.

Travel restrictions increased when passports were recalled last year, with authorities requiring applicants to provide a DNA sample, fingerprints, a voice recording, and a “three-dimensional image”.

Local authorities have previously banned Muslim civil servants, students, and teachers from fasting and instructed restaurants to stay open during the holy month of Ramadan.

Amnesty International said the move, as well as a crackdown on “unauthorised” Muslim prayer gatherings, constituted violations of freedom of religion.

Dozens of students and writers have been arrested under a “counter-terror law” brought in last year and critics of government policy have been jailed.

_Additional reporting by Reuters

Source: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...emism-crackdown-freedom-a7657826.html#gallery_


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## TaiShang

There is no Muslim province in China.

China does not subscribe to archaic ideas and concepts.

China is the antithesis of those ideas and concepts.

And China Model is the synthesis.

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## gayMo

Do Chinese get beards


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## 艹艹艹

Farooq said:


> will chinese still claim to be friendly towards Muslim nations after passing this ridiculous law?


Remember, they are Chinese Muslims, they are chinese!
We don't think about problems in a religious way.



gayMo said:


> Do Chinese get beards


I'm envious of modi's beards

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## Farooq

long_ said:


> Remember, they are Chinese Muslims, they are chinese!
> We don't think about problems in a religious way.
> 
> 
> I'm envious of modi's beards



this ridiculous law is an attack on Muslims and make the chinese look like hypocrites just like the west

this has absolutely nothing to do with preventing terrorism 


after seeing this law, I have my doubts over CPEC

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## 艹艹艹

Farooq said:


> this ridiculous law is an attack on Muslims and make the chinese look like hypocrites just like the west
> 
> this has absolutely nothing to do with preventing terrorism
> 
> 
> after seeing this law, I have my doubts over CPEC


Remember, they are Chinese Muslims, they are chinese!
We don't think about problems in a religious way.
Please pay attention to your remarks, do not let other countries have more fear of muslims!
BTW, This is nothing to do with cpec.

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## kankan326

Farooq said:


> this ridiculous law is an attack on Muslims and make the chinese look like hypocrites just like the west
> 
> this has absolutely nothing to do with preventing terrorism
> 
> 
> after seeing this law, I have my doubts over CPEC


I remember there was no terrorists attack in XinJing when the Muslims there were not influenced by Wahabbi.
Are all Muslims Wahabbi supporters? Why is it an attack to other Muslims? Does China force them to do something?

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## Farooq

kankan326 said:


> I remember there was no terrorists attack in XinJing when the Muslims there were not influenced by Wahabbi.
> Are all Muslims Wahabbi supporters? Why is it an attack to other Muslims? Does China force them to do something?



wahabis are less than 1% of total Muslims


wahabiism is a sect invented by the british 200 years ago to fight the ottoman empire and yes the wahabis are the western backed terrorist

however, banning the beard and niqab has nothing to do with combating terrorism.

in fact, with this idiotic law you guys have shown you are not any different than the west & this will definitely make many Muslims rethink their relations with the chinese

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## Max

if China ban all religious symbols and dress code then i have no right to condemn as they are fair with all citizens but if they are doing discrimination against one religion.. it should be condemned.

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## Great Sachin

AViet said:


> Still thousands times better than being a Muslim in the world largest democrazy of India, to be honest.


and India should learn from China...

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## Counterpunch

This only supports the message and mission of ISIS and shows how wrong the world is in tackling it if a country the size and mind of China resorts to such hollow and superficial measures. They are instead targeting Muslim traits in their quest to reject ISIS. It's like a traffic control policeman starting booking every white sedan because a white sedan crossed the red signal some day. What a fool he is making out of himself. Yeah, he can rant my country, my rules whatever, but a fool is all he is

Sad times.

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## faithfulguy

Farooq said:


> well at least next time spare Pakistanis the BS of iron-brothers & all-weather friendship or any of that nonsense
> 
> and yes, this has everything to do with CPEC.... why would Pakistani people never accept a CPEC like deal with US for example? that is because we thought we can trust the chinese, however, when the Pakistani people and the rest of 1.6 billion Muslims around world see this blatant attack on Islamic values it send a clear message that you are just like the west.
> 
> by simply saying that we don't see it in "religious way" does not cut it
> 
> 
> 
> they clearly singled out Islam here



China is never pro Islam, It's just pro Pakistan. They are none religious and see all religion with suspicion. Pakistan, on the other hand, is a Muslim country. As you can see, they support Burma when they oppressed their Muslim minorities.

So Chinese support for Pakistan is geopolitical only and never religious. And even if China or any country want to support Islam, they won't know where to start as Islam world is split is Sunni vs Shii, Saudi lead vs Iran lead and secular vs religious forces, Arab vs Iranian vs Turkish groups. As a result in geopolitics, people support/oppose the country, not the religion.

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## Farooq

faithfulguy said:


> China is never pro west. It's just pro Pakistan. They are none religious and see all religion with suspicion. Pakistan, on the other hand, is a Muslim country. As you can see, they support Burma when they oppressed their Muslim minorities.
> 
> So Chinese support for Pakistan is geopolitical only and never religious. And even if China or any country want to support Islam, they won't know where to start as Islam world is split is Sunni vs Shia, Saudi lead vs Iran lead and secular vs religious forces, Arab vs Iranian vs Turkish groups. As a result in geopolitics, people support/oppose the country, not the religion.



I didn't say that china is pro-west 

and I understand that china supports Pakistan for geopolitical reasons and not religious, that is obvious. However, in geopolitics its never a one way relation... if that was the case than you can't criticize the west either


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## kankan326

Farooq said:


> wahabis are less than 1% of total Muslims
> 
> 
> wahabiism is a sect invented by the british 200 years ago to fight the ottoman empire and yes the wahabis are the western backed terrorist
> 
> however, banning the beard and niqab has nothing to do with combating terrorism.
> 
> in fact, with this idiotic law you guys have shown you are not any different than the west & this will definitely make many Muslims rethink their relations with the chinese


At least China never interfered any Muslims countries' internal affairs. And China has no intend to compromise its own internal affairs to please any other countries. If any country wants to make friend with China at cost of our sovereignty, it's not a real friend for us.

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## T-123456

Good move by China,non ninjas.

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## Farooq

kankan326 said:


> At least China never interfered any Muslims countries' internal affairs. And China has no intend to compromise its own internal affairs to please any other countries. If any country wants to make friend with China at cost of our sovereignty, it's not a real friend for us.



don't be ridiculous! no one is asking china to compromise its sovereignty.. china's national security is also in Pakistan's self interest, but this law has absolutely nothing to do with security or sovereignty


do you not realize that the peaceful pro-Chinese Muslims will also be alienated by this?

plus if someone wants to attack china they can do it without a beard


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## faithfulguy

Farooq said:


> I didn't say that china is pro-west
> 
> and I understand that china supports Pakistan for geopolitical reasons and not religious, that is obvious. However, in geopolitics its never a one way relation... if that was the case than you can't criticize the west either



I meant pro Islam. I corrected that as that was from a sentence that I corrected.

As for tolerance to Islam and its practices, you will get more of that from the west vs China as China is officially none religious communist and they see all religion, including Islam, Christianity and Buddhism as superstition and bad for people. That is why they are very sensitive when a religion related organization or practice is affecting their national security.

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## kankan326

Farooq said:


> don't be ridiculous! no one is asking china to compromise its sovereignty.. china's national security is also in Pakistan's self interest, but this law has absolutely nothing to do with security or sovereignty
> 
> 
> do you not realize that the peaceful pro-Chinese Muslims will also be alienated by this?
> 
> plus if someone wants to attack china they can do it without a beard


Why are you so sure this has nothing to do with security? I think the root reason of extremism is Wahabbi. As I said there was no terrorist attack when there was no Wahabbi in China. And look around the world please, wherever the Wahabbi goes, the terrorism emerges there. I believe China is doing the right thing.

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## Farooq

yes, wahabiissm is the root problem, but what does that have to do with beards and niqabs?

beards and niqabs are part of Islam it is not exclusive to wahabiism

I am have a long beard and I am not wahabi

You are collectively punishing the 99% peaceful Sunni Muslims for the actions of the 1% wahabis. 

as someone who used to be pro-Chinese, I am genuinely very disappointed in this, but you obviously don't care


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## 武成王

Terrible. Whenever religion is concerned, there're arguments. You're talking about politics, which in most countries, religion is NERVER a decisive factor. If religion is above regime, there's sooner or later civil war breakup. Any religion believers must learn to compromise and co-exist with others have a different ideology. Again, if you consider China is REPRESS MUSILIM, go to China to have a visit, there's 10 Muslim minorities, Uyghur is only one of them. The travel is not expensive, it's much better than simply pointing fingers here. There's also Uyghurs inhabitants in Pakistan, many of them often go to Xin Jiang for business, they even send kids go to colleges in Bei Jing.

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## Max

long_ said:


> two thousand years ago, the land had been under the jurisdiction of china!



lame excuse, if you go 2000 years back in history most of the world was not following what they are following now, i.e Christianity and Islam, so those indeginous people should not have any right in their fatherland just bcoz they changed their religion?


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## kankan326

Farooq said:


> yes, wahabiissm is the root problem, but what does that have to do with beards and niqabs?
> 
> beards and niqabs are part of Islam it is not exclusive to wahabiism
> 
> 
> I am have a long beard and I am not wahabi


I don't know where you are from. Definitely not N.Korea I guess. If you live in a country where beards and niqabs are part of your tradition, it's okay. But that doesn't apply to Xinjiang. Cause niqabs and beards are not tradition there. They were introduced along with Wahabbi. That's why banning bears and niqabs is part of banning Wahabbi.

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## Farooq

kankan326 said:


> I don't know where you are from. Definitely not N.Korea I guess. If you live in a country where beards and niqabs are part of your tradition, it's okay. But that doesn't apply to Xinjiang. Cause niqabs and beards are not tradition there. They were introduced along with Wahabbi. That's why banning bears and niqabs is part of banning Wahabbi.
> View attachment 387844



its better to not argue about something you are not aware of which in this case is Islam

as I said before, beards and niqbs are not exclusive to wahabis... Islam is 1500 years old and wahabissm is 200 years old. Muslims wore beards and niqbs prior to 200 years and still do


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## TaiShang

Farooq said:


> I agree, but this has nothing to do with the law. With this law you are alienating pro-Chinese Muslims and playing into the narrative of western backed terrorists
> 
> I think you have no idea how welcomed and trusted the chinese are in Pakistan, but that will change after this law
> 
> anyway, from now on you won't see any pro-Chinese by me and many will follow



China has relationship with Pakistan not because it is Muslim-dominated country, but because it is a state that China has common interests.

You are being Muslim, Christian or Zoroastrian do mean NOTHING to us.

You are being a Muslim or not does not make you more important or less important in our eyes.

Please do not assume some self-worth and anticipate automatic respect from others because you happen to believe in something unseen very strongly.

You derive respect and friendship because of who you are, not because which god you believe in.

If you think China is a partner with you just because you are Muslim, then please stop being a partner, because we will not get along well (of course, your government is more rational and fighting inside Pakistan against the more violent version of what China has been successfully dealing with at home).

Hope this makes things clear.

That we are not getting along so well with India or getting along well with Pakistan has nothing to do with your or Indian religion. It is all about geopolitics and interest. We do not care about your being Hinduist or Islamist.

Just as all rational and secular governments do not care.

Stop your idiotic comments and correct your flags. You are an insult to North Korea.

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## kankan326

Farooq said:


> Muslims wore beards and niqbs prior to 200 years and still do


But not in China. What I saw from you is China should not do xxx. Did we say you should not do xxx? Looks like we are begging you for something. But we are not.

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## samsara

Btw, here is an informative article, rare of its kind, about the differences between the Saudi's *Salafi/Wahhabi/Takfiri* vs *Sunni*, as articulated by those experts from al-Azhar University in Cairo. One should know the differences to have the more correct views as well as to understand the underlying problems of the radicalizations within the last three decades, the phenomenon of ISIS/ISIL/IS/LEVANT/DAESH is just the tip of the iceberg! 

I posted it earlier *here*:

Grozny conference challenges the Saudis

By Tahir Mustafa - Dhu al-Hijjah 29, 1437 (2016-10-01)

[...]
After spending more than $100 billion over four decades to try and buy the loyalty of Muslims around the world, the Saudi Wahhabis received a tight slap on their collective face from none other than the Shaykh of al-Azhar, Dr. Ahmed el-Tayeb. The stinging rebuke was delivered at a conference in Grozny, Chechnya at the end of August (August 25–27), which was attended by hundreds of leading Islamic scholars from the Muslim world. Shaykh al-Tayeb said that the Salafis — the label preferred by the Wahhabis themselves — are not “Sunnis.”

To understand the true import of this statement, consider this. The *Salafis* and their even more extreme offshoot, the *takfiris*, are certainly not Shi‘is — the other branch of Islam. The Salafis consider themselves authentic Sunnis, in fact, super Sunnis and insist others must follow them. This claim has not only been challenged by the head of the most prestigious Islamic institution in the Muslim world, al-Azhar University in Cairo, but they have been banished from the fold of Islam altogether!

Some *200 Sunni scholars* from around the world participated in the Grozny conference at the invitation of the Yemeni Sufi scholar, al-Habib Ali al-Jafri. What was the conference convened to discuss? To define the term Ahl al-Sunnah wa-al-Jama‘ah, which a myriad of “Sunni” groups have used to claim authenticity and legitimacy to their particular interpretation of Islam. Each claims to be following the Sunnah of the noble Messenger (pbuh). The tragedy is that each group also invariably excludes others they disagree with from being “true Sunnis.” A further problem is — and this has to do with semantics — the expression Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l Jama‘ah does not exist in the Qur’an or the authentic prophetic hadith. The first Umayyad king, Mu‘awiyah coined this expression to claim legitimacy for his rule, which had no basis in Islam.
[...]

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## T-123456

Max said:


> May Chinese kill more Turkic nationalists hiding in cia's caves, they are real ninjas, not commen people of Xinjiang.


Did i hit a nerve that you come with death wishes?
You need lessons in history,Uyghur Muslims never covered their faces and surely not the whole body in black cloth,they wear colourful clothes.
This is a thing of the last two decades and it has nothing to do with their culture.
Although many Chinese blame it on my country,we know where that influence came from.
You cant be a Muslim when not wearing a burqa?

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## Max

T-123456 said:


> Did i hit a nerve that you come with death wishes?
> You need lessons in history,Uyghur Muslims never covered their faces and surely not the whole body in black cloth,they wear colourful clothes.
> This is a thing of the last two decades and it has nothing to do with their culture.
> Although many Chinese blame it on my country,we know where that influence came from.
> You cant be a Muslim when not wearing a burqa?



no you didnt, i just hate those real ninja turkic terrorists who kill my countrymen and Chinese and take rescue in Cia's cave,, why you are feeling guilty? Your country have something to do with those caves?

2nd thas what i said, real ninja are those who are hiding in CIA's caves, I never said Uygur are burqa clad people.. Read my post again..

3rd, even if some of them want to grow beard or wear veil.. Who is govt to interfare? Do they treat monks and Christians with same laws and ban their dress code? Why discrimination against Uygur?


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## 武成王

Max said:


> 3rd, even if some of them want to grow beard or wear veil.. Who is govt to interfare? Do they treat monks and Christians with same laws and ban their dress code? Why discrimination against Uygur?



I can only answer your 3rd question, professional monk, christian, mullah basically has no restriction. I emphasize the term 'professional'. buddlist, christian believers has no difference in cloth, appearance etc, however some Islamists do have such difference in public. There're at least 20-30 million Muslim in China, anti-terrorist task is high cost, high pressure, you can not check one by one, so believers' cloth and appearance become a signal to use. In fact, Uyghur policeman, SWAT solider play a key, major role in these tasks. Be pragmatic.

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## T-123456

Max said:


> no you didnt, i just hate those real ninja turkic terrorists who kill my countrymen and Chinese and take rescue in Cia's cave,, why you are feeling guilty? Your country have something to do with those caves?


What is this ''Turkic'' thing you get there going,why not name them for who they are?
Arent they Uzbek?


Max said:


> 2nd thas what i said, real ninja are those who are hiding in CIA's caves, I never said Uygur are burqa clad people.. Read my post again..


Again name them by their name.


Max said:


> 3rd, even if some of them want to grow beard or wear veil.. Who is govt to interfare? Do they treat monks and Christians with same laws and ban their dress code? Why discrimination against Uygur?


That government never interfered until the radical elements cried for implementation of Sharia law,the Uyghur culture never had any radical Islamists.
Look at what has become of my country thanks to the freedom of dress code by the current government,how many terror acts have been done by these radical terrorists?
If it were up to me,i would have sent them al away,no freedom of dresscode in my country,just like in the good old days where my country was modern and free of radical Islamic elements.

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## 武成王

[QUOTE="
No Islam doesnt,only Islamists(''Wahabis'' and other radical Islamists) have such differences.[/QUOTE]

I corrected the term.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Farooq said:


> as someone who used to be pro-Chinese, I am genuinely very disappointed in this, but you obviously don't care





Farooq said:


> and yes, this has everything to do with CPEC.... why would Pakistani people never accept a CPEC like deal with US for example? that is because we thought we can trust the chinese, however, when the Pakistani people and the rest of 1.6 billion Muslims around world see this blatant attack on Islamic values it send a clear message that you are just like the west.



Uh, you have always been anti-Chinese. I've only ever seen you talk crap about China.

But yeah, you are welcome to join your Indian friends in opposing CPEC.

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## Mamluk

Why single out China? Europeans are doing the exact same thing, so do Muslim countries like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Tajikstan.

Indians are doing worse - prohibiting Muslims from eating certain food, decriminalizing rape on Muslim women (AFSPA).

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## Max

T-123456 said:


> That government never interfered until the radical elements cried for implementation of Sharia law,the Uyghur culture never had any radical Islamists.



what are you blabbering here? where did i said uyghur are extremists? its called racial, religious profiling which people condemn in whole world, isnt it?



T-123456 said:


> ook at what has become of my country thanks to the freedom of dress code by the current government,how many terror acts have been done by these radical terrorists?



they call them east Turkistani not east uzbek.

it have nothing to do with dress code, most of those pkk militants are atheists.. it have more to do with violent neighbourhood and your involvement on behalf of FSA.. No?

you want to ban their dress code, Islamist want to ban secularism in your country, good luck in your fight, i am supporter of coexistence.


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## Shotgunner51

TaiShang said:


> *New Xinjiang regulation aims to prevent extremism*
> By Mao Weihua and Cui Jia | China Daily | Updated: 2017-03-31









Approved by Xinjiang PC (People's Congress), the *Legislation on Counter Extremism* is published in Xinjiang Government website. Details are available in the official link below:

http://www.xinjiang.gov.cn/2017/03/30/128831.html​
I can see a lot of lost in translation (many media including Chinese ones are lousy, worse than auto-translate) and perhaps even deliberate distortion of the story by foreign journalists, as well as some politically motivated so-called "human rights" groups. The law clearly defined what is extremism, not a single word "Islam" is mentioned, no "Muslim", no "Uighur". Out of the 15 prohibited behaviors, nothing even remotely related to beards, the only one some may dispute is covering of faces in public arena (check clause 9.7). Note, the law states clearly that individual has religious freedom, it's only prohibited to force it upon others (clause 9.2).

There are 10 Chinese ethnic groups who are muslims, Uighur is not the only one, not even the largest one which is actually Hui, the others are Kazakh (哈萨克族), Kerke (柯尔克孜族), Uzbek (乌孜别克族), Tatar (塔塔尔族), Tajik (塔吉克族), Dong Xiang (东乡族), Shala (撒拉族), Baoan (保安族). These Muslim groups not just reside in Xinjiang but across the whole mid-west of China from Gansu, Qinghai, Ningxia, Shaanxi to even northern Sichuan and Beijing. To foreign groups who try to generalize Xinjiang's counter terrorism legislation as national "oppression" on Islam or Uighur and try to defame China, remember these two cold hard facts and cut the nonsense.

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## Mamluk

Shotgunner51 said:


> View attachment 387871
> 
> 
> Approved by Xinjiang PC (People's Congress), the Legislation on Counter Extremism is published in Xinjiang Government website. Details are available in the official link below:
> 
> http://www.xinjiang.gov.cn/2017/03/30/128831.html​
> I can see a lot of misunderstanding, lost in translation (many media including Chinese ones are lousy) and perhaps even deliberate distortion of the story by foreign jornalists as well as some politically motivated so-called "human rights" groups. The law clearly defined what is extremism, not a single word "Islam" is mentioned, no "Muslim", no "Uhygur". Out of the 15 prohibited behaviors, nothing even remotely related to beards, the only one some may dispute is covering of faces in public arena (check clause 9.7). Note, the law states clearly that individual has religious freedom, it's only prohibited to force upon others (clause 9.2).
> 
> There are 10 Chinese ethnic groups that have Muslim as religion, Uhygur is not the only one, not even the largest which is actually Hui, others are Kazak (哈萨克族), Kerke (柯尔克孜族), Uzebek (乌孜别克族), Tatar (塔塔尔族), Tajik (塔吉克族), Dong Xiang (东乡族), Shala (撒拉族), Baoan (保安族); These Muslim groups not just reside in Xinjiang but across the whole mid-west of China from Gansu, Qinghai, Ningxia, Shaanxi to even northern Sichuan and Beijing. To foreign groups who try to relate Xinjiang's counter terrorism legislation to Islam or Uhygur, try to defame China, remember the these two hard facts and cut the non-sense.



The news reports are all politically motivated to pit Chinese against Muslims.

Got to confess there are idiots on both sides - Muslims and Chinese -- who are going to fight over it.

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## Shotgunner51

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> The news reports are all politically motivated to pit Chinese against Muslims.
> 
> Got to confess there are idiots on both sides - Muslims and Chinese -- who are going to fight over it.


Exactly!

Can't blame those politically motivated groups or journalists for faking stories to defame China among Muslims or Turkic people, that's what they do for a living. For example, perhaps the most queried clause 9.7, it reads "自己或强迫他人穿戴蒙面罩袍、佩戴极端化标志的" or "Wearing or force others to wear masked gowns, extremist signage", not even one religious or cultural term can be found, but then say in the OP it became "head scarves, veils and long beards", some others even use cultural terms like "burqa" or "niqab".

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

faithfulguy said:


> There is a reason that China is where it is today. It's very secular. The battle for China is not its market, but it's souls. Chinese don't regard Confucius as a religion. So it has three choices, Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Represented by the west, Middle East and India. I think all three places need a strategy to win the Chinese soul.



China should merge all these 3 religions into one, we should remove all the psychological barrier and reduce their misconception and misunderstanding of each other. China knew how to unify all fragmented warring states as one nation, we can do the same with the religion... *of course we do that within Chinese territory*, we should set a new standard for any Chinese believers that they will not be allowed to look down any religion or play favoritism but open their hearts equally to all religions (jew, shaman, fortune tellers , you name it).

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## terranMarine

The Dark Forces are at work again. Must deal with these propaganda throughly

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## Azadkashmir

Chinese has to worry because they know west foreign intel are pushing this agenda to destablize China, muslims are just canon fodder.

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## shadows888

Azadkashmir said:


> chinese has to worry because they know west forign intel are pushing this agenda to destablize china, muslims are just canon fodder.



obviously, 1 million Iraqi's dead and no american's cry for them.

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## kankan326

T-123456 said:


> Look at what has become of my country thanks to the freedom of dress code by the current government,how many terror acts have been done by these radical terrorists?
> If it were up to me,i would have sent them al away,no freedom of dresscode in my country,just like in the good old days where my country was modern and free of radical Islamic elements.


Turkey used to be a safe country. But not anymore. Another victim of Wahabbi expansion.

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## KediKesenFare3

Wrong approach but what can you expect from communists? It will backfire like it did in Chechnya. Mark my words: during the next 10 years Chinese elites will acknowledge that the biggest threat to China is the rising number of Christians all over the country.

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## Farooq

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Uh, you have always been anti-Chinese. I've only ever seen you talk crap about China.
> 
> But yeah, you are welcome to join your Indian friends in opposing CPEC.



dear Chinese bro, you are confusing me with someone else or you are deliberately trolling

read all my posts.. I have always posted pro-Chinese & pro-CPEC comments



kankan326 said:


> Turkey used to be a safe country. But not anymore. Another victim of Wahabbi expansion.



you clearly don't know what you are talking about and stop spewing nonsense

I live in Turkey and it is very safe here, plus Turks are Sunnis just as I am .. There were ISIS wahabis caught and they got severely tortured while the "human rights" groups were crying 



Shotgunner51 said:


> Exactly!
> 
> Can't blame those politically motivated groups or journalists for faking stories to defame China among Muslims or Turkic people, that's what they do for a living. For example, perhaps the most queried clause 9.7, it reads "自己或强迫他人穿戴蒙面罩袍、佩戴极端化标志的" or "Wearing or force others to wear masked gowns, extremist signage", not even one religious or cultural term can be found, but then say in the OP it became "head scarves, veils and long beards", some others even use cultural terms like "burqa" or "niqab".



good relations between Muslims and Chinese sounds great, but why are your fellow Chinese members cheering this law as a ban on beards and niqbs ? do they not understand chinese?


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## kankan326

KediKesenFare said:


> Wrong approach but what can you expect from communists? It will backfire like it did in Chechnya. Mark my words: during the next 10 years Chinese elites will acknowledge that the biggest threat to China is the rising number of Christians all over the country.


You can expect communists don't randomly kill innocent people. But can we expect Wahabbies stop doing so?

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## third eye

Mods : Please merge in existing thread on the subject if any.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-39460538






China has introduced new restrictions in the far western region of Xinjiang in what it describes as a campaign against Islamist extremism.

The measures include prohibiting "abnormally" long beards, the wearing of veils in public places and refusing to watch state television.

Xinjiang is the homeland of the Uighurs, a traditionally Muslim group who say they face discrimination.

Recent years have seen bloody clashes in the region.

The Chinese government blames the violence on Islamist militants and separatists.

But rights groups say the unrest is more a reaction to repressive policies, and argue that the new measures may end up pushing some Uighurs into extremism.

Though similar restrictions have already been in place in Xinjiang, they become legally sanctioned as of this weekend. Reuters news agency reports that the new laws also ban:


Not allowing children to attend government schools
Not abiding by family planning policies
Deliberately damaging legal documents
Marrying using only religious procedures
The rules also state that workers in public spaces, such as stations and airports, are now required to "dissuade" those who fully cover their bodies, including veiling their faces, from entering, and to report them to the police.





The restrictions were approved by Xinjiang lawmakers and published on the region's official news website.

Chinese authorities had previously imposed other measures, including restrictions on granting passports to Uighurs.


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## Farooq

TaiShang said:


> China has relationship with Pakistan not because it is Muslim-dominated country, but because it is a state that China has common interests.
> 
> You are being Muslim, Christian or Zoroastrian do mean NOTHING to us.
> 
> You are being a Muslim or not does not make you more important or less important in our eyes.
> 
> Please do not assume some self-worth and anticipate automatic respect from others because you happen to believe in something unseen very strongly.
> 
> You derive respect and friendship because of who you are, not because which god you believe in.
> 
> If you think China is a partner with you just because you are Muslim, then please stop being a partner, because we will not get along well (of course, your government is more rational and fighting inside Pakistan against the more violent version of what China has been successfully dealing with at home).
> 
> Hope this makes things clear.
> 
> That we are not getting along so well with India or getting along well with Pakistan has nothing to do with your or Indian religion. It is all about geopolitics and interest. We do not care about your being Hinduist or Islamist.
> 
> Just as all rational and secular governments do not care.
> 
> Stop your idiotic comments and correct your flags. You are an insult to North Korea.



Since English is not your first language I can understand why you have trouble in reading comprehension.

I never said we should be a partner based on religion, so stop spewing nonsense.

My only contention is if this law actually exists it is highly discriminatory and alienates the peaceful Muslims who wear beards and niqabs, but I don't expect a simpleton like you to understand basic logic.
If someone wants to commit a crime they can do it without a beard like many terrorists have done in the past.

In fact, most of the terrorists attacks have been committed by those who don't practice Islam and were beardless alcoholics or drug dealers.

Finally, I was under the impression that Chinese are sharp and can see through the facade in geopolitics orchestrated by the West, but I suppose I was wrong. The best thing you can do for the West is alienate the Muslims by implementing these idiotic laws.


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## StraightShooter

third eye said:


> Mods : Please merge in existing thread on the subject if any.
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-39460538
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has introduced new restrictions in the far western region of Xinjiang in what it describes as a campaign against Islamist extremism.
> 
> The measures include prohibiting "abnormally" long beards, the wearing of veils in public places and refusing to watch state television.
> 
> Xinjiang is the homeland of the Uighurs, a traditionally Muslim group who say they face discrimination.
> 
> Recent years have seen bloody clashes in the region.
> 
> The Chinese government blames the violence on Islamist militants and separatists.
> 
> But rights groups say the unrest is more a reaction to repressive policies, and argue that the new measures may end up pushing some Uighurs into extremism.
> 
> Though similar restrictions have already been in place in Xinjiang, they become legally sanctioned as of this weekend. Reuters news agency reports that the new laws also ban:
> 
> 
> Not allowing children to attend government schools
> Not abiding by family planning policies
> Deliberately damaging legal documents
> Marrying using only religious procedures
> The rules also state that workers in public spaces, such as stations and airports, are now required to "dissuade" those who fully cover their bodies, including veiling their faces, from entering, and to report them to the police.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The restrictions were approved by Xinjiang lawmakers and published on the region's official news website.
> 
> Chinese authorities had previously imposed other measures, including restrictions on granting passports to Uighurs.



Got to respect Chinese.

India should emulate China.


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## Dungeness

Max said:


> if China ban all religious symbols and dress code then i have no right to condemn as they are fair with all citizens but if they are doing discrimination against one religion.. it should be condemned.




China is officially an atheist country, it practices state atheism and promises individual religious freedom, as long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of others. By the definition of state atheism, China has to govern the religious activities, and limit the power of organized religious institutions.

Chinese government doesn't discriminate against any particular legal religion, and it has demolished many Christian churches for the building code violations.

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## TaiShang

Farooq said:


> My only contention is if this law actually exists it is highly discriminatory and alienates the peaceful Muslims who wear beards and niqabs



None of your business.

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## Farooq

Dungeness said:


> China is officially an atheist country, it practices state atheism and promises individual religious freedom, as long as it doesn't interfere with the freedom of others. By the definition of state atheism, China has to govern the religious activities, and limit the power of organized religious institutions.
> 
> Chinese government doesn't discriminate against any particular legal religion, and it has demolished many Christian churches for the building code violations.



which religions in China are not recognized?


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## TaiShang

Farooq said:


> Finally, I was under the impression that Chinese are sharp and can see through the facade in geopolitics orchestrated by the West, but I suppose I was wrong. The best thing you can do for the West is alienate the Muslims by implementing these idiotic laws.



Why do you care so much for others? Deal with your own problems inside your national borders. Stop interfering in others domestic affairs based on religious affinity.

Your feelings for ummah means nothing for us.

China has been around for 5000 years and knows how to deal with conjectural problems.

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## Farooq

TaiShang said:


> Why do you care so much for others? Deal with your own problems inside your national borders. Stop interfering in others domestic affairs based on religious affinity.
> 
> Your feelings for ummah means nothing for us.
> 
> China has been around for 5000 years and knows how to deal with conjectural problems.



@Shotgunner51 said that law doesn't ban beards and also pointed out that the West is trying to drive a wedge between Muslims & Chinese by publishing such false stories and that is exactly what I was saying. 

So where am I wrong ?


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## Dungeness

Farooq said:


> which religions in China are not recognized?



All religions are legal unless listed as "cult" by law, like Fa Lun Gong.

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## Farooq

Dungeness said:


> All religions are legal unless listed as "cult" by law, like Fa Lun Gong.




that is interesting .... once I was in San Francisco Chinatown and I saw these people hold up sign which read something along the lines... "Chinese Communist Government is Satan"

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## Dungeness

Farooq said:


> @Shotgunner51 said that law doesn't ban beards and also pointed out that the West is trying to drive a wedge between Muslims & Chinese by publishing such false stories and that is exactly what I was saying.
> 
> So where am I wrong ?



Growing beard and wearing burqa are new phenomenon among Chinese Muslim in recent years, and they are often associated with religious extremism. Chinese government just have to take precaution steps.

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## Farooq

Dungeness said:


> Growing beard and wearing burqa are new phenomenon among Chinese Muslim in recent years, and they are often associated with religious extremism. Chinese government just have to take precaution steps.



I am confused... then why is
@Shotgunner51 saying that 't there isn't a ban on beards /niqabs and that the ban is falsely reported by Western media to divide Muslims / Chinese alliance?


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## Dungeness

Farooq said:


> that is interesting .... once I was in San Francisco Chinatown and I saw these people hold up sign which read something along the lines... "Chinese Communist Government is Satan"




Yes, they are very active in the states, and they have turned themselves into a political organization from a religion.

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## TaiShang

Farooq said:


> Western media to divide Muslims / Chinese alliance?



There is no such alliance. China does not form alliance based on religious affinity.

China-Pakistan partnership is not a China-Muslim alliance. It is a state to state relationship. Very secular.

And yes, there is definitely ban on long beard and full face covering, along with 13 other behaviors, including extending halal concept to things outside food. Now you can continue your holy war somewhere else.

If one has long beard or wearing full face covering, one has no place in Xinjiang. It is a good thing and will do wonders.

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## Farooq

TaiShang said:


> There is no such alliance. China does not form alliance based on religious affinity.
> 
> China-Pakistan partnership is not a China-Muslim alliance. It is a state to state relationship. Very secular.
> 
> And yes, there is definitely ban on long beard and full face covering, along with 13 other behaviors, including extending halal concept to things outside food. Now you can continue your holy war somewhere else.
> 
> If one has long beard or wearing full face covering, one has no place in Xinjiang. It is a good thing and will do wonders.


I don't understand why you are being so aggressive! 

When I say Chinese / Muslims alliance that means ans state-to - state partnership since China has relations with Muslim countries unlike the West


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## Offshore

Good effort by our government!!!
We should get rid of this religion crap and push them to science and technology!

And for those who don't like our effort!
It means we doing great!

Let those ummah crying a river.
No need to explain to them.. it's useless 

We will crush them!!!



TaiShang said:


> There is no such alliance. China does not form alliance based on religious affinity.
> 
> China-Pakistan partnership is not a China-Muslim alliance. It is a state to state relationship. Very secular.
> 
> And yes, there is definitely ban on long beard and full face covering, along with 13 other behaviors, including extending halal concept to things outside food. Now you can continue your holy war somewhere else.
> 
> If one has long beard or wearing full face covering, one has no place in Xinjiang. It is a good thing and will do wonders.



To be honest I still don't get it. Where the hell this Muslim - china alliance coming from.. 

Our government indeed is the most efficient government in the world..
They must be gather intelligence from many country. Observe and learn how this halal concept go beyond food and destroys society.. that's why they prevented this kind of crap!!

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## TaiShang

Farooq said:


> I don't understand why you are being so aggressive!
> 
> When I say Chinese / Muslims alliance that means ans state-to - state partnership since China has relations with Muslim countries unlike the West



Because religion is only applicable in personal domain, not in public domain. In the public domain, religion is evil, regardless of the name, especially those organized and systemic (political-business) religions, not culture-tradition mixtures like Shamanism, Daoism or Shintoism.

So, there cannot be any Chinese-Muslim alliance. There is not any. We usually do not feel sympathetic just because you believe in something unseen very strongly.

Religion is not benchmark for anything in our daily life or behavior pattern and interactions. 
Orthodox.

And US has very deep relations with Saudi Arabia. Turkey is a NATO member. Pakistan has been working with the US in its war on terror for decades, including once against Soviet-friendly government of Karmal.

Maybe it feel like China is friendly to Muslim countries, but China is friendly to almost everybody because it does not have militarized foreign policy.

Nonetheless, the good relations do not mean that China as a secular state has any affinity toward any particular religion.

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## Farooq

@Offshore @TaiShang 

you people need to learn English before posting garbage here.

Alliance and partnership is the same thing !!!!

you people have a very deep relationship partnership/alliance with the *Islamic *Republic of Pakistan, therefore, you have a partnership/ alliance Muslims whether you like it or not.


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## TaiShang

Offshore said:


> To be honest I still don't get it. Where the hell this Muslim - china alliance coming from..



In fact, it is almost an insult to the very founding text of China, the Constitution.

China's Constitution is very clear:

"Under the leadership of the Communist Party of China and the guidance of Marxism-Leninism, Mao Zedong Thought, Deng Xiaoping Theory and the important thought of Three Represents, the Chinese people of all nationalities will continue to adhere to the people's democratic dictatorship and the socialist road, persevere in reform and opening to the outside world, steadily improve socialist institutions, develop the socialist market economy, develop socialist democracy, improve the socialist legal system and work hard and self-reliantly to modernize the country's industry, agriculture, national defence and science and technology step by step and promote the coordinated development of the material, political and spiritual civilizations, to turn China into a socialist country that is prosperous, powerful, democratic and culturally advanced" (Preamble).

"*Article 36* Citizens of the People's Republic of China enjoy freedom of religious belief.
No State organ, public organization or individual may compel citizens to believe in, or not to believe in, any religion; nor may they discriminate against citizens who believe in, or do not believe in, any religion.

The State protects normal religious activities. No one may make use of religion to engage in activities that disrupt public order, impair the health of citizens or interfere with the educational system of the State.

Religious bodies and religious affairs are not subject to any foreign domination."



Offshore said:


> They must be gather intelligence from many country. Observe and learn how this halal concept go beyond food and destroys society.. that's why they prevented this kind of crap!!



Definitely. It starts with food. Then they begin to separate places. It never settles; they keep asking for more.

There is no rationality in their demands so they need to be protected from their own violent thought processes. The task falls on the government.



Farooq said:


> Alliance and partnership is the same thing !!!!
> 
> you people have a very deep relationship partnership/alliance with the *Islamic *Republic of Pakistan, therefore, you have a partnership/ alliance Muslims whether you like it or not.



Stop teaching English; you sound like an Indian.

Alliance and partnership are definitely two things.

China may has strategic partnership with Pakistan, it has no alliance with anybody. Because alliance means mutual guarantee in case of an attack by a third party.

China does not give any promise to anybody. It is the US that does alliance diplomacy.

China has relations with the state of Pakistan, just as it has with the state of Iran and Italy. What title you give to yourself as a state organization is your internal business. However, it does not generate any China-Muslim alliance.

Muslim is not a political concept. It is a religious denomination. State relations are political. We do not care Pakistan calls itself Islamic or Zoroastrian Republic of Pakistan.

I personally think there are humans in Saudi Arabia and Italy, not Muslims or Catholics.

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## Farooq

TaiShang said:


> Because religion is only applicable in personal domain, not in public domain. In the public domain, religion is evil, regardless of the name, especially those organized and systemic (political-business) religions, not culture-tradition mixtures like Shamanism, Daoism or Shintoism.
> 
> So, there cannot be any Chinese-Muslim alliance. There is not any. We usually do not feel sympathetic just because you believe in something unseen very strongly.
> 
> Religion is not benchmark for anything in our daily life or behavior pattern and interactions.
> Orthodox.
> 
> And US has very deep relations with Saudi Arabia. Turkey is a NATO member. Pakistan has been working with the US in its war on terror for decades, including once against Soviet-friendly government of Karmal.
> 
> Maybe it feel like China is friendly to Muslim countries, but China is friendly to almost everybody because it does not have militarized foreign policy.
> 
> Nonetheless, the good relations do not mean that China as a secular state has any affinity toward any particular religion.



quit repeating your diatribe !

everyone knows that China is a atheist country, but Pakistan is an *ISLAMIC* country whether you like it or not, hence Pakistan's constitution is on based on Islam. So for *Islamic *Republic of Pakistan religion is not only personal, but also a form of governance. So rather than being a high mighty Chinese keyboard warrior you should immediately end CPEC because you are dealing with a country that applies Islam in a public domain per it's Constitution.

Furthermore, you have an *ISLAMIC *bank in China which operates based on Islamic law. So rather than wasting my time here convince your atheist government to shut down the Islamic bank since it violates your silly "values & beliefs" LOL!

https://tribune.com.pk/story/1087196/hbl-to-open-branch-in-china/


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## Dungeness

Farooq said:


> I don't understand why you are being so aggressive!
> 
> When I say Chinese / Muslims alliance that means ans state-to - state partnership since China has relations with Muslim countries unlike the West



Maybe it is because you were deliberately or unintentionally pegging Chinese against Muslim in your previous posts? Expecting unlimited religious freedom in an officially atheist country, is like expecting unlimited preaching of Christianity in the land of Muslim. Let's respect each other's internal affair.

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## Chinese-Dragon

TaiShang said:


> I personally think there are humans in Saudi Arabia and Italy, not Muslims or Catholics.



Fantastic way of putting it. 

Look at all the wars and bloodshed in the world, which are almost entirely focused in the Middle East.

And they are not even a different religion from each other, they are from different sects of the same religion.

China should continue on our current path of scientific development. The only philosophy that should be driving politics is pragmatism, seeking truth from facts. Being practical and realistic.

Those who prefer religious extremism, are already wiping themselves out as we speak. There is nothing we can do for them.

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## Dungeness

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Fantastic way of putting it.
> 
> Look at all the wars and bloodshed in the world, which are almost entirely focused in the Middle East.
> 
> And they are not even a different religion from each other, they are from different sects of the same religion.
> 
> China should continue on our current path of scientific development. The only philosophy that should be driving politics is pragmatism, seeking truth from facts. Being practical and realistic.
> 
> Those who prefer religious extremism, are already wiping themselves out as we speak. There is nothing we can do for them.



Thanks God, China is an atheist country!

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## Chinese-Dragon

@Dungeness @TaiShang

As much as I despise the US government, I have to admit they are managing to keep the war away from their mainland. Better to let other countries be the battlegrounds.

Countries like China, US and Russia are massively building up their scientific and technological power... while the heavily religious Middle East is imploding under its own weight.

Now as the Middle East continues to implode for another decade or two, see how the military and technological power of China/US/Russia will grow. With a single ship we will have more destructive power than all of ISIS combined.

Now we have the fastest supercomputer in the world using Chinese microchips, in a few decades that computing power will look completely insignficant compared to the Quantum supercomputers we will have. And meanwhile the Middle East will still keep blowing itself up, passing the hatred from generation to generation.

Nothing we can do for them. When a child has seen their parents blown up by ISIS, a barrel bomb or an American drone, that's not the kind of hatred that just dissapears after a few years. This is a hatred that will be passed down for several generations at the very least.

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## ito

Their country their rules.

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## Dungeness

TaiShang said:


> Definitely. It starts with food. Then they begin to separate places. It never settles; they keep asking for more.
> 
> There is no rationality in their demands so they need to be protected from their own violent thought processes. The task falls on the government.




First they say your food is not halal, then they say the smell of your food is not halal, then the supermarket you shop is not, then the chair you have sat on, then..........

They are segregating themselves from the majority of society. This trend needs to be stopped!

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## kankan326

Farooq said:


> I have several Chinese friends, so I have no desire to pegg Chinese against Muslims.
> 
> in fact it is @TaiShang and other Chinese members here that are pegging themselves against Muslims and playing into the hands of the West


You have a very weird way of thinking. Being friend of you means we have to sacrifice our sovereignty to satisfy your religion feeling? What kind of friend is that? Could you think from a human being's view? not your God's view?

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## Mamluk

StraightShooter said:


> India should emulate China.



Everyone will be happy if you did.

Start with removing ban on Muslim diet,
revoke legalized rape of Muslim women (AFSPA),
revoke legalized killing of Muslim civilians (AFSPA),
stop riots that kill thousands of Muslims per day and bring all culprits to justice,
hang your PM Modi for Gujarat massacre!

Then, ban *long *beards and veils. No one cares.

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## Farooq

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Dungeness @TaiShang
> 
> As much as I despise the US government, I have to admit they are managing to keep the war away from their mainland. Better to let other countries be the battlegrounds.
> 
> Countries like China, US and Russia are massively building up their scientific and technological power... while the heavily religious Middle East is imploding under its own weight.
> 
> Now as the Middle East continues to implode for another decade or two, see how the military and technological power of China/US/Russia will grow. With a single ship we will have more destructive power than all of ISIS combined.
> 
> Now we have the fastest supercomputer in the world using Chinese microchips, in a few decades that computing power will look completely insignficant compared to the Quantum supercomputers we will have. And meanwhile the Middle East will still keep blowing itself up, passing the hatred from generation to generation.




ISIS (wahabis) are killing Muslims and non-Muslims and the West is aiding groups like ISIS and other terrorists organizations in Syria, Libya and other ME countries for their nefarious reasons. So as much as you'd like to blame Islam for this problem that simply not the case. 

The western aided terrorists are fighting in the name of Islam for their western masters


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## Dungeness

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Dungeness @TaiShang
> 
> As much as I despise the US government, I have to admit they are managing to keep the war away from their mainland. Better to let other countries be the battlegrounds.
> 
> Countries like China, US and Russia are massively building up their scientific and technological power... while the heavily religious Middle East is imploding under its own weight.
> 
> Now as the Middle East continues to implode for another decade or two, see how the military and technological power of China/US/Russia will grow. With a single ship we will have more destructive power than all of ISIS combined.
> 
> Now we have the fastest supercomputer in the world using Chinese microchips, in a few decades that computing power will look completely insignficant compared to the Quantum supercomputers we will have. And meanwhile the Middle East will still keep blowing itself up, passing the hatred from generation to generation.
> 
> Nothing we can do for them. When a child has seen their parents blown up by ISIS, a barrel bomb or an American drone, that's not the kind of hatred that just dissapears after a few years. This is a hatred that will be passed down for several generations at the very least.




There is a program on CNN today, IS behind the Mask, the story of a Belgium young man returned home from the battle field as an IS fighter. When asked if he considers himself a Belgian, he said "No, I am a Muslim". A chill just run down of my spine.

I can't help but wonder if a Chinese Muslim considers himself a Chinese first or a Muslim first.

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## Farooq

kankan326 said:


> You have a very weird way of thinking. Being friend of you means we have to sacrifice our sovereignty to satisfy your religion feeling? What kind of friend is that? Could you think from a human being's view? not your God's view?



I am not asking you to sacrifice anything


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## Chinese-Dragon

Farooq said:


> ISIS (wahabis) are killing Muslims and non-Muslims and the West is aiding groups like ISIS and other terrorists organizations in Syria, Libya and other ME countries for their nefarious reasons. So as much as you'd like to blame Islam for this problem that simply not the case.
> 
> The western aided terrorists are fighting in the name of Islam for their western masters



I don't blame them, I feel sorry for them.

Muslims who have sold their sovereignty to Western powers, killing other Muslims who are from a different sect.

Western Christian countries dropping more bombs on Muslim countries than in the entirety of WW2, with over a million innocent Muslims blown up by Western Christians in the Iraq theater alone.

Now the West says: Oh look, China says that beards in Xinjiang can't be TOO long! Now there is the real tragedy, forget the millions they are killing in the Middle East as we speak.

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## Chinese-Dragon

Farooq said:


> Don't let this argument lead you believe that I really care about China, Chinese people, your culture or whatever. China just happens to be a good business partner at the moment and that is fine, but their is no emotions attached to your country or your people.
> 
> However, your own commie government doesn't see it this way. There are people- to -people contact between china and Pakistan, so go b*tch at your commie government first for allowing this with *ISLAMIC *Republic of Pakistan
> 
> its more than an alliance it is a friendship! apparently, your own commie gov doesn't care what you think. .. lol!
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/Pak.ChinaFriendshipCentre/
> http://en.chinaculture.org/ccc/2015-03/18/content_607703.htm
> 
> _The forthcoming establishment of the center *reflects the strengthening of the bonds of friendship between China and Pakistan*. It will provide greater opportunities for learning each other’s languages and knowing the respective cultures._



You Indians will never understand. 

CPEC serves the national interests of both China and Pakistan. Nothing to do with religion, ethnicity or anything else.

That's why you'll keep crying, while CPEC keeps getting built. There are enough Indian tears over CPEC to fill multiple reservoirs, a few more Indian tears from you won't make a difference.

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## TaiShang

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Dungeness @TaiShang
> 
> As much as I despise the US government, I have to admit they are managing to keep the war away from their mainland. Better to let other countries be the battlegrounds.
> 
> Countries like China, US and Russia are massively building up their scientific and technological power... while the heavily religious Middle East is imploding under its own weight.
> 
> Now as the Middle East continues to implode for another decade or two, see how the military and technological power of China/US/Russia will grow. With a single ship we will have more destructive power than all of ISIS combined.
> 
> Now we have the fastest supercomputer in the world using Chinese microchips, in a few decades that computing power will look completely insignficant compared to the Quantum supercomputers we will have. And meanwhile the Middle East will still keep blowing itself up, passing the hatred from generation to generation.
> 
> Nothing we can do for them. When a child has seen their parents blown up by ISIS, a barrel bomb or an American drone, that's not the kind of hatred that just dissapears after a few years. This is a hatred that will be passed down for several generations at the very least.



Scientific pragmatic secular developmentalism and progressivism vs. archaic sectarianism, hatred, division, underdevelopment and regression. That's the difference between secularism and religiosity; Middle East and East Asia.

I am glad our combined civilizational culture is essentially mundane, secular and accountable to the living world, not to the imaginary post-world or after world on which we have no control.

Those regions you mention have little or no chance for progress. Hence, even when they keep hating the West or irreligious China or Japan, they will attempt to hurt you by using your own creations/products. Just like hating the US and spreading religious propaganda via Twitter. So much for the anticipated golden age that will supposedly come after they suicide-blow half of the world.

Having interactions with them, I feel and pity for the women and children while despise the religious power elites. Thanks heavens, we have extremely secular and mundane progressive dialectical governments and leaderships on both sides of the Straits. I attribute our entire progress to these values. The West, similarly, achieved progress only after they decided to root out religion from their public domains. Whatever remains are cultural rituals that unify people and add color.



Offshore said:


> Stop putting words in China mouth!
> It's coming from your media..
> While officially we don't form any alliance with Russia let alone Iran and Pakistan



Officially, we do not have any alliance. *We have not signed any single document that says we are allying with any other state entity.*

And, not in this universe will there be a chance for China to form alliance with a state, let alone with a religion.

The guy is quoting Indian and other radical media which uses such technical terms very liberally/loosely. For masses, of course, no difference between a partner and an ally. But, for a diplomat or bureaucrat that actually write those documents, terminology is of the utmost importance. It is so for polities with deep and comprehensive state tradition. Banana republics might think an ally and a partner is actually the same thing.



Dungeness said:


> First they say your food is not halal, then they say the smell of your food is not halal, then the supermarket you shop is not, then the chair you have sat on, then..........
> 
> They are segregating themselves from the majority of society. This trend needs to be stopped!



This is how it goes. You give one inch, they ask for three more. There is no end because they are essentially totalitarian in their world view. Just look at the shameless argument made on this thread, poking their nose in our sovereign affairs based on some fuzzy ideas of religious affinity. Then it is clear how much menace these people create in their own societies. This explains the radicalization tendency in those countries with no limit.

They will start with small concessions. Food, transportation, school, supermarket, etc. Then they will spread their control over your life. It is the women that suffer the most because religious totalitarianism is very patriarchal. Then child brides, children's violation (I read news from Turkey recently regarding minor boys being exploited by religious groups), violent control of the public domain will be a norm.

It is a cancer and the cancer is best to be removed at its very onset. China's move is in fact a belated one. But, better than nothing. Russia learned it the hard way in the Caucasus. I think what China wants is a harmonious transition to secular popular culture.

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## TaiShang

Offshore said:


> CPEC is economy corridor !
> I hope you just a minorities in Pakistan... otherwise
> People - People relationships will have a big problem..
> 
> And stop using CPEC , we will not compromise our national security and won't be dictated by foreign countries



It is one of the legs of the Belt and Road, but not the most significant one. The most significant one is the Eurasian Silk Road which extends from China to Europe via Central Asia and Russia.

Most of China's investment has gone to that road. CPEC is intended for South Asia.

It is a pragmatic business deal which is in the interest of Pakistan and China alike. Otherwise, neither Pakistan nor China would invest just for the sake of an imaginary friendship (not an alliance).

We have two pipelines from Myanmar, which makes it a more strategic partner than many other neighbors of China, which we share almost no strategic assets. And China does really give no importance to people's extreme religious pains that go beyond their national borders.

Hence, China vetoed a UK-sponsored resolution calling for an action against Myanmar. And we have seen tears flowing profusely for the ummah. 

Same as Myanmar, I would argue, Kazakhstan is as much, if not more, important for China (and receiving investment) as Pakistan is for Belt and Road. In fact, we have pipelines from Kazakhstan, which makes the country a strategically more important partner of China.

But, still not an ally.

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## TaiShang

Farooq said:


> you clearly lost the argument, so now you result to insults as last resort... poor commie



Hate more. The more you hate, the more you are relieved of your false "alliance" imaginary.

"It has always been the foundation for the lifeline and pursuit of all Communists to have full confidence in ideals and firm faith in communism. Belief in Marxism and faith in Socialism and Communism are the 'political' soul of the Communists, enabling them to withstand all tests. Put figuratively, the ideals and convictions of Communists are the marrow of their faith. Without, or with weak, ideals, they would be deprived of their marrow and suffer from 'lack of backbone.'"

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## Chinese-Dragon

TaiShang said:


> But, still not an ally.



I feel that China isn't going to be signing any mutual defence treaties for a long time.

The last time we did that, we ended up fighting against the US + 16 of her allies combined during the Korean War. 

I would love for us have a mutual defense treaty with Russia, but the truth is they don't need it. They can hold off most of the world already without breaking a sweat.

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## TaiShang

Chinese-Dragon said:


> I feel that China isn't going to be signing any mutual defence treaties for a long time.
> 
> The last time we did that, we ended up fighting against the US + 16 of her allies combined during the Korean War.
> 
> I would love for us have a mutual defense treaty with Russia, but the truth is they don't need it. They can hold off most of the world already without breaking a sweat.



I think the closest we are to alliance is what we have with Russia, which is becoming quite an all around partnership, involving cooperation on military platforms, financial systems, space technology, currency, precious materials, and energy, among others.

Russia is always the first foreign country a President visits when he assumes the office.

I would also like to see a form of alliance between China and Russia because, as you say, it would be quite deterrent and would not entail and call for much sacrifice on both sides because both are capable of holding off a potential enemy, including the US.

Alliance with a minor-medium country would be disastrous, again, as you say. Either China would walk back on its promise, like the US did with the PH in 2012, or, engaged in a costly war.

I think Korean War was very necessary, and China would be involved even without a defence treaty. That's the point where the very survival of the nation is in the question.

Alliance with Russia would simply increase their deterrence, which is already enough individually to prevent any major war.

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## Jlaw

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Dungeness @TaiShang
> 
> As much as I despise the US government, I have to admit they are managing to keep the war away from their mainland. Better to let other countries be the battlegrounds.
> 
> Countries like China, US and Russia are massively building up their scientific and technological power... while the heavily religious Middle East is imploding under its own weight.
> 
> Now as the Middle East continues to implode for another decade or two, see how the military and technological power of China/US/Russia will grow. With a single ship we will have more destructive power than all of ISIS combined.
> 
> Now we have the fastest supercomputer in the world using Chinese microchips, in a few decades that computing power will look completely insignficant compared to the Quantum supercomputers we will have. And meanwhile the Middle East will still keep blowing itself up, passing the hatred from generation to generation.
> 
> Nothing we can do for them. When a child has seen their parents blown up by ISIS, a barrel bomb or an American drone, that's not the kind of hatred that just dissapears after a few years. This is a hatred that will be passed down for several generations at the very least.


I was disappointed when China signed so many deals recently with Wahabis. Im afraid their way will hinder the projects turning potential money making to money losing.



Kyle Sun said:


> If you want to make a deal with usa,who kept killing your people like video game, no problem,go ahead.



And continue to do so as we speak. I won't engage with this idiot. The more i spend time here i know guys like Richard Lynn is absolutely correct.



Dungeness said:


> There is a program on CNN today, IS behind the Mask, the story of a Belgium young man returned home from the battle field as an IS fighter. When asked if he considers himself a Belgian, he said "No, I am a Muslim". A chill just run down of my spine.
> 
> I can't help but wonder if a Chinese Muslim considers himself a Chinese first or a Muslim first.


He be a Muslim first. Never Chinese because he's already indoctrinated.

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## KediKesenFare3

Chinese-Dragon said:


> @Dungeness @TaiShang
> 
> As much as I despise the US government, I have to admit they are managing to keep the war away from their mainland. Better to let other countries be the battlegrounds.
> 
> Countries like China, US and Russia are massively building up their scientific and technological power... while the heavily religious Middle East is imploding under its own weight.
> 
> Now as the Middle East continues to implode for another decade or two, see how the military and technological power of China/US/Russia will grow. With a single ship we will have more destructive power than all of ISIS combined.
> 
> Now we have the fastest supercomputer in the world using Chinese microchips, in a few decades that computing power will look completely insignficant compared to the Quantum supercomputers we will have. And meanwhile the Middle East will still keep blowing itself up, passing the hatred from generation to generation.
> 
> Nothing we can do for them. When a child has seen their parents blown up by ISIS, a barrel bomb or an American drone, that's not the kind of hatred that just dissapears after a few years. This is a hatred that will be passed down for several generations at the very least.


Too optimistic. A single idea - whatever it might be - could be more powerful and more destructive than all of the Chinese nuclear weapons combined. Many of you guys sound like Soviet politicians during the 60s.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

To all Chinese members,

Don't waste your breath on anyone who is anger and want to use Muslim issue to interfere with China internal affaire, as I mentioned on my previous post, if any countries (friend or Foe) think is within their right to meddling into Chinese religious issue, we can do the same with reciprocation: US has already tasted their own medicine by using democracy as excuse to meddling into Chinese business, China is no longer show mercy, reservation and face saving for US on this issue. We will do the same for anyone to play religious game with us.

we have a saying:

*人不犯我，我不犯人；人若犯我，我必犯人*

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> To all Chinese members,
> 
> Don't wait your breath on anyone who is anger and want to use Muslim issue to interfere with China internal affaire, as I mentioned on my previous post, if any countries (friend or Foe) think is within their right to meddling into Chinese religious issue, we can do the same with reciprocation: US has already tasted their own medicine by using democracy as excuse to meddling into Chinese, China is no longer show mercy, reservation and face saving for US on this issue. We will do the same for anyone to play religious game with us.
> 
> we have a saying:
> 
> *人不犯我，我不犯人；人若犯我，我必犯人*


Its not a matter of divide and conquer. You cannot reason with religious fanatics. China Pakistani relationship has nothing to do with China's internal laws. China can implement whatever law they want in Chinese territories. Fake Pakistani or real Pakistani cannot interfere.

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## 武成王

It's their's freedom to criticize, good or bad intention, we should learn tolerance when we ask for others' tolerance. All are keyboard warriors, it's hardly to be called 'interference'. Also, all people's view does not impact S-P relationship at all, it's very naive to think so.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Its not a matter of divide and conquer. You cannot reason with religious fanatics. China Pakistani relationship has nothing to do with china's internal laws. China can implement whatever law they want in Chinese territories. Fake Pakistani or real Pakistani cannot interfere.



We have been polite and people take that as weakness, I know some false flaggers and especially Indians are so delight to draw a wedge between China and Pakistan.

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## Max

hackerdelight said:


> I can only answer your 3rd question, professional monk, christian, mullah basically has no restriction. I emphasize the term 'professional'. buddlist, christian believers has no difference in cloth, appearance etc, however some Islamists do have such difference in public. There're at least 20-30 million Muslim in China, anti-terrorist task is high cost, high pressure, you can not check one by one, so believers' cloth and appearance become a signal to use. In fact, Uyghur policeman, SWAT solider play a key, major role in these tasks. Be pragmatic.



its called racial profiling my Chinese friend which is condemned in whole democratic world.
2nd beard or veil have nothing to do with extremism..

btw This thread is eye opener for many Pakistani whom consider China their all whether and so on.. i dont blame them bcoz our govt is telling us lies.. they should learn from this thread, Chinese dont believe in friendship and alliance they believe in their national interests, so should Pakistan.

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## Jf Thunder

kankan326 said:


> Wahabbi invaded China. China kicks it out. Simple and fair enough.
> 
> View attachment 387666
> 
> View attachment 387667


kick them out already, otherwise they will ruin your culture with those ninja suits

so, I dont really see whats the problem here?
veils and those ninja suits are a threat to national security, culture and everything else

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## 武成王

Max said:


> its called racial profiling my Chinese friend which is condemned in whole democratic world.
> 2nd beard or veil have nothing to do with extremism..
> 
> btw This thread is eye opener for many Pakistani whom consider China their all whether and so on.. i dont blame them bcoz our govt is telling us lies.. they should learn from this thread, Chinese dont believe in friendship and alliance they believe in their national interests, so should Pakistan.



I'm not interested in arguing with you. beard/veil ban is policy of China government, China is not west, not democratic either. If you like west, democratic, Europe or America, you have chance to go there now. You can protest China or Pakistan government if you don't like it. Wahabi is from Saudi, however Saudi king visited China, go figure ... This is politic, not people to people relationship. Your government don't lie to you, it's true. You misunderstand that government relationship equal individual relationship. For same problem, if you look at from different position, different identity, you will get different result. e.g. as an Muslim, as PM of Pakistan, as an Pakistani. Apparently, you consider your Muslim identity is much more important than your Pakistani identity. Furthermore, you're explicitly enforcing Chinese Muslim to accept your viewpoint on 'how to be a moderate Muslim', aren't you ? period.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Farooq said:


> will chinese still claim to be friendly towards Muslim nations after passing this ridiculous law?



Be friendly toward Muslim nations is not equal to allow any Muslim nations to interfere into China's internal business, we pass the law within our nation and we did not impose it into you nation, my friend.

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## faithfulguy

KediKesenFare said:


> Wrong approach but what can you expect from communists? It will backfire like it did in Chechnya. Mark my words: during the next 10 years Chinese elites will acknowledge that the biggest threat to China is the rising number of Christians all over the country.



China has no native religion and it's open to all missionaries and preachers and mullah and monks and gurus with only one condition:

That they obey the law of the land.

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## terranMarine

Burqa ban in Europe

The law is domestic affair period, any members here criticizing have hidden agendas. They could be false flaggers, extremists or sympathizers.

See how the BBC is using propaganda http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-39460538 ? The British paper is only putting the focus on Uyghurs while ignoring other ethnic minority groups who are also Muslims. Yet the BBC does not criticize the other European countries when they passed the laws for banning the Burqa. Even the majority in England want a Burqa ban according to some poll.

There's no point to discuss any further with those fools whether they have Pakistan or other national flags. The law has been passed and it's China's internal matter especially when it concerns Mainland's national security.

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## LowPost

The AngloZionists are trying to balkanise China employing religious institutions, may it be Muslim, Christian or whatsoever, as well as the WUC, militants etc. and their agenda is backed up by their propaganda campaign, of course. Whilst this is a threat that should not be underestimated, anyone who believes they will succeed in doing so had better give their head a wobble.

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## Clutch

I agree with most of this... China is investing huge in the western part... if it truly hated them it wouldn't be doing so...

The only thing I don't get is.... They have to watch TV??!?!? Lol... what if don't have a TV in their house?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Arryn said:


> The AngloZionists are trying to balkanise China employing religious institutions, may it be Muslim, Christian or whatsoever, as well as the WUC, militants etc. and their agenda is backed up by their propaganda campaign, of course. Whilst this is a threat that should not be underestimated, anyone who believes they will succeed in doing so had better give their head a wobble.



China is certainly aware of western agenda, they're stirring up trouble between China and Muslim nations to promote hate and expect that China will have hard time to doing business in middle east, also to relieve themselves from getting Muslim's hate attention but ironically they're been targeted such France, England, Germany as well.

China and Middle east Muslim nations are pragmatic, we deal with both Iran, Saudi Arabia different faction of Islam to promotion our national interest and not religious interest, we have not take side on neither faction...nor of these Muslim nations come to lecture how China should run our country.

*As long as China don't do anything to hurt Muslim Nations in their respective territory* such as invasion as those crusaders did and stir up war in middle east such as support Israel, Iran-Iraq war, Iraq war, Gaddafi regime change.... I believe these Muslim nations are wise enough not to trouble China... as Chinese general said: "*we don't make trouble but we're not afraid of trouble".*

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## 武成王

The followings are pictures from Xin Jiang, where there're million new houses built or in building, it's called "fu min an ju gong cheng", which means " the engineering of make locals' life wealthy and stable". Central government sponsor part fund, other provinces sponsor part fund, local civilians provide part fund.











































































EYE OPENER ? ! I think this is an eye opener for many people here include many Chinese..

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## Max

hackerdelight said:


> I'm not interested in arguing with you.



then why you wasted time on writing reply 



hackerdelight said:


> China is not west, not democratic either. If you like west, democratic, Europe or America, you have chance to go there now. You can protest China or Pakistan government if you don't like it.



no need to, i already wasted so much time on this thread. you people dont worth this time. why should i waste my time protesting against authoritarian regime when i already know they dont give a single fvck about others.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Then go and form an alliance with India again like Ayub Khan offered to do in 1962. 

India was so impressed with your loyalty to them that they paid you back with interest in 1971, by cutting your country in half.

Or go back to an alliance with the Americans, and pay them to keep bombing you with drones.

China is the only one who has never actually attacked Pakistani soil, let alone split you guys in half. Nor have we bombed you with drones. Instead we bring investment, and don't worry, the investment will always be there. China's excess capacity will need to be invested somewhere or another.

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## 70U63

The problem is you, not them.
Because some Muslim always thinking about themselves and their religion, it is obvious that China using these for their internal security, which got nothing to do with outsider.
Before u say Muslim are all brothers, why don't u sit down and think how to help those hopeless Muslim countries especially in middle East.



Max said:


> of course, there shouldn't be people to people relation b/W Pakistan and China, lets just our govt interact with each other, i was expressing myself to those who think Chinese people take them as friend and ally which is not true, they hate our religion like western do, they despise our dress code like western do.. they consider Muslim terrorists like western do, no difference.. i pray that people here know reality of Chinese when they deal with them..

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## Matirpola

70U63 said:


> The problem in you, not them.



Problem in both. Chinese people are xenophobic and Muslims can get fanatic. No way they can get along.


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## Offshore

Matirpola said:


> Problem in both. Chinese people are xenophobic and Muslims can get fanatic. No way they can get along.



We are not xenophobic , we are pragmatic, realistic, and we don't view from religious view.
Last but not least.

We get things done!

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## 70U63

There are multiple Muslim ethnics in China, so far only one group has problem recently....


Matirpola said:


> Problem in both. Chinese people are xenophobic and Muslims can get fanatic. No way they can get along.

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## dy1022

Chinese land, Chinese rules

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## Matirpola

70U63 said:


> There are multiple Muslim ethnics in China, so far only one group has problem recently....



That's nonsense. Muslim and Chinese culture is not compatible. Go talk to Chinese in various forums - they bitch about all the Muslim groups, not only Uighurs. I'm personally not religious, but I find Chinese extremely xenophobic.


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## TaiShang

70U63 said:


> The problem in you, not them.
> Because some Muslim always thinking about themselves and their religion, it 8s obvious that China using these for their internal security, which got nothing to do with outsider.
> Before u say Muslim are all brothers, why don't u sit down and think how to help those hopeless Muslim countries especially in middle East.



Well said. People need to learn not to look at inter state relations from a religious perspective.

China does not, because it is a secular state.

People also need to learn not to assume and anticipate outside worth or esteem just because they are deeply religious. Your religion does not make you any more special than the others. Or any less.

Self worth and external respect is personal, spirituality may support and decorate it further. But China does not accept any religious teaching that attempts to regulate public life.

If religiousness leads to a self-ascribed vision of superiority, then, it gets violent by obstructing public life. Some people need to come to terms with the idea that interstate relations is a public domain and fully sovereign states will not let cross border organized affinities.

Better don't mistake China's friendship for religious-ideological affinity. We do not have any. Your religion stops where China's national borders start.

Think why China does not recognize the Vatican and be happy that it did not put the KSA in the same basket.

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## 武成王

Matirpola said:


> That's nonsense. Muslim and Chinese culture is not compatible. Go talk to Chinese in various forums - they bitch about all the Muslim groups, not only Uighurs. I'm personally not religious, but I find Chinese extremely xenophobic.



Muslim and Western, are 'compatible' ? Muslim and Indian culture are 'compatible' ? Muslim and XXX culture are 'compatible'? Did China wage any war agaist Muslim majority country for 'Incompatbility' ? SOME Chinese are xenophobic because SOME foreigners cause problems, if you obey the law, respect local people, you will earn respect. it's a very simple logic. I know lots of Chinese are doing business in BG, if they don't respect BG people, KICK THEM OUT, it's simple.

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## Matirpola

hackerdelight said:


> Muslim and Western, are 'compatible' ? Muslim and Indian culture are 'compatible' ? Muslim and XXX culture are 'compatible'? Did China wage any war agaist Muslim majority country for 'Incompatbility' ? SOME Chinese are xenophobic because SOME foreigners cause problems, if you obey the law, respect local people, you will earn respect. it's a very simple logic. I know lots of Chinese are doing business in BG, if they don't respect BG people, KICK THEM OUT, it's simple.



I'm out of touch with BD, so I don't know what's going on there. Anyways, generally culture of two different civilization cannot be compatible. That is the source of friction. It's not as simple 'as follow our rules and problems will go away'. Why will they follow authoritarian rules that try to change their centuries old culture?

Respect local people?? Do Han respect local people or adopt local culture in Tibet or Xinjiang? The people they are displacing? I don't think so.


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## Max

70U63 said:


> The problem is you, not them.
> Because some Muslim always thinking about themselves and their religion, it is obvious that China using these for their internal security, which got nothing to do with outsider.
> Before u say Muslim are all brothers, why don't u sit down and think how to help those hopeless Muslim countries especially in middle East.



i clearly stated that i have no problem with China banning all religious symbols or dress code, but if its against only one religion then its problematic. bcoz you are making statement against Muslims and Islam..

neither i said you to jeopardize your security, why dont you tackle them with more surveillance and other shit instead of making China loving uyghur realize that Chinese see your practicing Muslims with suspicion?

As for helping.. you can taunt Arabs but not Pakistan. Pakistan is among top nations who provide UN peace mission with most men along with top place for refugees since decades.


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## 武成王

Matirpola said:


> I'm out of touch with BD, so I don't know what's going on there. Anyways, generally culture of two different civilization cannot be compatible. That is the source of friction. It's not as simple 'as follow our rules and problems will go away'. Why will they follow authoritarian rules that try to change their centuries old culture?
> 
> Respect local people?? Do Han respect local people or adopt local culture in Tibet or Xinjiang? The people they are displacing? I don't think so.



I don't agree on you that different cultures can't be 'compatible'. if it's true, why you immigrate to America? are you displacing native or white American? Cultures can definitely co-exist, most countries in the world are diverse, have multiple different cultures, it's a fact. Islam used to co-exist with others fine (not perfectly though) before terrorism rising up. 

Whether Han respect Tibet, Xinjiang, it's not determined by you, your viewpoint is not important at all, we don't care. It's determined by mainstream Tibet and Xinjiang people, they lead a much much better life than most BG people. Your viewpoint also don't impact my view on BG people, since you're probably a 'American' now.

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## HannibalBarca

TaiShang said:


> Well said. People need to learn not to look at inter state relations from a religious perspective.
> 
> China does not, because it is a secular state.
> 
> People also need to learn not to assume and anticipate outside worth or esteem just because they are deeply religious. Your religion does not make you any more special than the others. Or any less.
> 
> Self worth and external respect is personal, spirituality may support and decorate it further. But China does not accept any religious teaching that attempts to regulate public life.
> 
> If religiousness leads to a self-ascribed vision of superiority, then, it gets violent by obstructing public life. Some people need to come to terms with the idea that interstate relations is a public domain and fully sovereign states will not let cross border organized affinities.
> 
> Better don't mistake China's friendship for religious-ideological affinity. We do not have any. Your religion stops where China's national borders start.
> 
> Think why China does not recognize the Vatican and be happy that it did not put the KSA in the same basket.



Well China is a young nation who "invaded" those lands in the last century... So China communism "ideology/atheism" is new...
In The End Islam or any religion around the area came BEFORE Communist China...

And let's not jump on one side only... China got this problem with the tibetan buddihsm... and others before that. It has nothing to do with "religion" it's only a problem of power... Communist ideology knows well that Religion is a powerfull tool for power... and they want to keep theirs as long as they can... nothing more nothing less... But they should ALWAYS remember how the communist ideology emerged in the last century... China is doing what Imperialism has done in the past... 

Have fun.

A quote from a man of the past... : Wheesl turn... it always turn... Always.
The second man quote: In Conflict, Rationalism and pragmatism is only a mindset of those in Command. Vengence/Fear is the mindset of the Winner.


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## Matirpola

hackerdelight said:


> I don't agree on you that different cultures can't be 'compatible'. if it's true, why you immigrate to America? are you displacing native or white American?



I have adopted American lifestyle. Those who don't and stick to their native culture will notice this friction in their day-to-day lives.



hackerdelight said:


> Whether Han respect Tibet, Xinjiang, it's not determined by you, your viewpoint is not important at all, we don't care. It's determined by mainstream Tibet and Xinjiang people, they lead a much much better life than most BG people.



They don't have a voice to determine anything; that's what concerns the international community. Everything is decided at CPC HQ.


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## Max

Chinese-Dragon said:


> China is the only one who has never actually attacked Pakistani soil, let alone split you guys in half. Nor have we bombed you with drones. Instead we bring investment, and don't worry, the investment will always be there. China's excess capacity will need to be invested somewhere or another.



rest of BS aside, Thats why i said our govt should deal with China, no need of people to people relations since we are ocean apart in civilization and practices, infact you hate our civilization. Pakistani on social media and PDF should stop singing song of chinese friendship. you took it wrong way or perhaps copy pasted your old rant which you usually does whenever Pakistani question you.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Max said:


> rest of BS aside, Thats why i said our govt should deal with China, no need of people to people relations since we are ocean apart in civilization and practices, infact you hate our civilization. Pakistani on social media and PDF should stop singing song of chinese friendship. you took it wrong way or perhaps copy pasted your old rant which you usually does whenever Pakistani question you.



There is one country whose interests are best served by causing problems in the Sino-Pakistani relationship, guess which country that is? India. 

Now the question is, why are you serving India's interests?

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## Max

Chinese-Dragon said:


> There is one country whose interests are best served by causing problems in the Sino-Pakistani relationship, guess which country that is? India.
> 
> Now the question is, why are you serving India's interests?



so me Questioning you discrimination against Uygur means i am helping bharatis.. great.


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## Dungeness

Max said:


> *i clearly stated that i have no problem with China banning all religious symbols or dress code, but if its against only one religion then its problematic. bcoz you are making statement against Muslims and Islam..*
> 
> neither i said you to jeopardize your security, why dont you tackle them with more surveillance and other shit instead of making China loving uyghur realize that Chinese see your practicing Muslims with suspicion?
> 
> As for helping.. you can taunt Arabs but not Pakistan. Pakistan is among top nations who provide UN peace mission with most men along with top place for refugees since decades.




China is not targeting any particular religion. If other religions start enforcing *FOREIGN* dress codes that are often symbolizing the religious extremism, I am sure Chinese government will ban the practice as well.

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## Max

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Yes you are serving the interests of Indians by trying to cause division in the Sino-Pakistani relationship.
> 
> Do you want a medal from Modi?



No. i dont, i am realizing and analyzing your friendship though  i come to conclusion that how you see Pakistan.. after all uygur are somewhat not so different from northern Pakistanis.



Dungeness said:


> China is not targeting any particular religion. If other religions start enforcing *FOREIGN* dress codes that are often symbolizing the religious extremism, I am sure Chinese government will ban the practice as well.



Well, how beard can be foreign?


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## Daniel808

Max said:


> i clearly stated that i have no problem with China banning all religious symbols or dress code, but if its against only one religion then its problematic. bcoz you are making statement against Muslims and Islam..
> 
> neither i said you to jeopardize your security, why dont you tackle them with more surveillance and other shit instead of making China loving uyghur realize that Chinese see your practicing Muslims with suspicion?
> 
> As for helping.. you can taunt Arabs but not Pakistan. Pakistan is among top nations who provide UN peace mission with most men along with top place for refugees since decades.



If you hate and envy China. That's your choice, little kid.

But please, don't bring other muslims to your hatred.
Most muslims in China is Love and very proud of their Chinese Identity.
They also very Patriotic !

*Go to the streets in Xian City, China. Meet one muslims guy in there, and say anything bad or insulting China in front of their face.
Mark my word, they will give you a lovely punch straight into your Face  *

Go try it, if you dare !

















http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/932736.shtml

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## Max

Daniel808 said:


> If you hate and envy China. That's your choice.



lol. see my history, i am one of the most pro China and anti india member, questioning act of discrimination does not mean i hate China.. i hate the action though.

Hui or Han Muslims are not in question, we are talking about *Xinjiang autonomous region and Uighur.
*
can you label a whole community for action of few?


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## Max

Daniel808 said:


> Based on your post before, you bring all muslims to your hatred.
> So, the answer is...



i am right, banning religious dress code and beard mean you cant coexist with practicing Muslims, does that mean i hate China..?

What if indonesia impose beard and veil on Chinese? you will be Ok?


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## dy1022

Chinese land, Chinese rules !!!

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## Daniel808

Max said:


> What if indonesia impose beard and veil on Chinese? you will be Ok?



Under 32 years of new order regime in indonesia.
the govt closed all Chinese schools, Forbidden to use Chinese-language, Forbidden to practice your own tradition, including banned all Chinese-names.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_Chinese_Indonesians

So, you can Imagine if there is one country in south-east asia Closed all Islamic schools, forbidden to use arabic-language, Forbidden to practice Islamic tradition, including banned all Islamic names.
That's what we live under 32 years regime.

So, If you don't know anything. better don't talk about it.
what you call hell, we already pass through it *10x times more* than you imagine.


By the way, I have many Chinese Hui muslims in Indonesia.
I can see, they are really Love and proud about China.

So, I ask you one more time.
*Do you Brave enough go to the streets in Xian City, meet one of the Chinese muslim guys in there, doesn't matter he is a Hui, Uyghur, or Kazakh. 

And in front of their face, you talk anything Bad or Insulting China.
mark my word, They will give you a lovely punch straight to your Face !

*

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## HannibalBarca

Daniel808 said:


> Under 32 years of new order regime in indonesia.
> the govt closed all Chinese schools, Forbidden to use Chinese-language, Forbidden to practice your own tradition, including banned all Chinese-names.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_Chinese_Indonesians
> 
> So, you can Imagine if there is one country in south-east asia Closed all Islamic schools, forbidden to use arabic-language, Forbidden to practice Islamic tradition, including banned all Islamic names.
> That's what we live under 32 years regime.
> 
> So, If you don't know anything. better don't talk about it.
> what you call hell, we already pass through it *10x times more* than you imagine, little kid.
> 
> 
> By the way, I have many Chinese Hui muslims in Indonesia.
> I can see, they are really Love and proud about China.
> 
> So, I ask you one more time.
> Do you Brave enough go to the streets in Xian City, meet one of the Chinese muslim guys in there, doesn't matter he is a Hui, Uyghur, or Kazakh.
> And in front of their face, you talk anything Bad or Insulting China.
> mark my word, They will give you a lovely punch straight to your Ugly face.



No one is insulting no one...
Why do you compare arguing on a subject done by a Gov as being an insult???
No one is insulting the Chinese ppl, but arguing with basic respect of few rules and behavior of a GOVERNEMENT. period

And yes we can criticize any subject, with respect. Insult is off limit.


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## 武成王

HannibalBarca said:


> Look you are making friends  Are you happy?
> 
> BTW if arguing on a subject with respect is being a troll or whatever... then WHAT the F*ck are you all doing here? go stalk any news website with no interaction and you will be happy... this place is called a FORUM, do you all need a definition for that?



You're not trolling, I know of course, at least you make some sense from your responses.

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## Nadhem Of Ibelin

HannibalBarca said:


> Look you are making friends  Are you happy?
> 
> BTW if arguing on a subject with respect is being a troll or whatever... then WHAT the F*ck are you all doing here? go stalk any news website with no interaction and you will be happy... this place is called a FORUM, do you all need a definition for that?


i'm pretty happy actually 
the fact is that all you terrorist sympathizers butthurts will keep crying in this thread while goverments or so called ummah won't raise a voice against china lol 
keep crying and china will keep crushing terrorists

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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> You're not trolling, I know of course, at least you make some sense from your responses.


Well, you fueled his ego.
Arguing with respect, yes . But Insult and trolls are cancer everywhere.



Nadhem Of Ibelin said:


> i'm pretty happy actually
> the fact is that all you terrorist sympathizers butthurts will keep crying in this thread while goverments or so called ummah won't raise a voice against china lol
> keep crying and china will keep crushing terrorists



Where do you get the idea we are supporting terrorists??
Those guys are a cancer who should be erased from the face of the Earth... Period.

So stop your BS ideology and stay on arguing with respect or stop your trolling.


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## TaiShang

Chinese state closely monitors all religious activities. A religion becomes a target for civil and/or military action when it gets organized politically and as a business, when it interferes in public life and imposes religious symbolism such as dress code that are foreign to China's civilization culture, and when it encourages and promotes violence through indoctrination and promise of eternal life in the after world.

China does not tolerate violence breeding based on blind faith in the unseen and unknown. That's the worst form of terrorism and the most dangerous. Political violence can be reasoned with because it is based on tangible interests, but religious violence cannot be negotiated because a religious fanatic's interests are reserved until after death, a realm that we have no control over.

Be aware that China has been the most historically dialectical nation. Before we adopted Marxist-Leninist ideology, we were also dialectical people. We are quick to take lessons using the rest of the world as a lab for our careful observation.

We have been following events in the Caucasus, Middle East, North Africa, and Europe. If anyone believes we will repeat those same mistakes by allowing religiosity to go organized and interfere in public life, they are in for a big surprise.

China does not subscribe to political fashion of unbridled religious liberty that preaches a foreign ideology. Others' religious affinities and feelings toward people outside their national border is meaningless to China. In fact, we take it as an hostile act of intervention. We recognize citizenship, not religious brotherhood.

So, save your sympathy that you have for some minority people whose beards will be shaved off or burqas will be stripped off. There are countless of places you can use that symphaty for nearby you.

China's Xinjiang is one of the fastest growing regions with secular education, lifestyle, culture and entertainment. The region is the hub of the Belt and Road. People are overwhelmingly patriotic, as @Daniel808 bro says.

This country, Greater China, has a recorded history of 5000 years and it was a political entity way before religions started in the Mesopotamia. Confucius was teaching public ethics and governance three centuries before the Jesus of Nazareth was born.

Our culture is deeper, broader, and more resilient. If there is going to be a dominant cultural mode in the Greater China, it is and it will be the culture of the Yellow River.

What comes later cannot contain what comes before.

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## HannibalBarca

TaiShang said:


> Chinese state closely monitor all religious activities. A religion becomes a target for civil and/or military action when it becomes organized politically and as a business, when it interferes in public life and impose religious symbolism such as dress code that are foreign to China's civilization culture, and encourages and promotes violence through indoctrination and eternal life in the after world promises.
> 
> Be aware that China has been the most historically dialectical nation. Before we adopted Marxist-Leninist ideology, we were also dialectical people. We are quick to take lessons using the rest of the world as a lab for our distant observation.
> 
> We have been following events in the Caucasus, Middle East, North Africa, and Europe. If anyone believes we will repeat those same mistakes by allowing religiosity to go organized and interfere in public life, they are in for a big surprise.
> 
> China does not subscribe to political fashion of unbridled religious liberty that preaches a foreign ideology. Others' religious affinities and feelings toward people outside their national border is meaningless to China. In fact, we take it as an hostile intervention.
> 
> So, save your sympathy for some minority people whose beards will be shaved off or burqas will be stripped off. There are countless of places you can use that symphaty for nearby you.
> 
> China's Xinjiang is one of the fastest growing regions with secular education, lifestyle, culture and entertainment. The region is the hub of the Belt and Road. People are overwhelmingly patriotic, as @Daniel808 bro says.
> 
> This country, Greater China, has a recorded history of 5000 years and it had been a political entity way before religions started in the Mesopotamia. Confucius was teaching public ethics and governance three centuries before the Jesus of Nazareth was born.
> 
> Our culture is deeper, broader, and more resilient. If there is going to be a dominant cultural mode in Greater China, it will be the culture of the Yellow River.
> 
> What comes later cannot contain what comes before.



Well Mongols proved you wrong... Nothing is for ever. Whatever past you have or want to have. China of today, with his border and language and culture is not the "China" of yesterday.

Unifying ppl under one ideology, by not acknowledging or oppressiong the other wasn't /isn't and will not be a good option. If China want to take a lesson in the ME or elswhere, it will be this peculiar one...

But ofc those who use WHATEVER ideology, Commy /Reliogion or else to disturb the peace/kill or hurt any innocent around has to be destroyed. But what could happen with the Uyghur, is not counter terro. Forbidding ppl to wear that or that or believe in somthing only bc "IT could" be dangerous is not right. Period

French proverb : " chassez le naturel il revient au galop" I think it's translation will be " what's bred in the bone will come out in the flesh"


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## Max

Daniel808 said:


> Under 32 years of new order regime in indonesia.
> the govt closed all Chinese schools, Forbidden to use Chinese-language, Forbidden to practice your own tradition, including banned all Chinese-names.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_against_Chinese_Indonesians
> 
> So, you can Imagine if there is one country in south-east asia Closed all Islamic schools, forbidden to use arabic-language, Forbidden to practice Islamic tradition, including banned all Islamic names.
> That's what we live under 32 years regime.
> 
> So, If you don't know anything. better don't talk about it.
> what you call hell, we already pass through it *10x times more* than you imagine.
> 
> 
> By the way, I have many Chinese Hui muslims in Indonesia.
> I can see, they are really Love and proud about China.
> 
> So, I ask you one more time.
> *Do you Brave enough go to the streets in Xian City, meet one of the Chinese muslim guys in there, doesn't matter he is a Hui, Uyghur, or Kazakh.
> 
> And in front of their face, you talk anything Bad or Insulting China.
> mark my word, They will give you a lovely punch straight to your Face !*



This should be norm in whole Muslim world, so Chinese can realize what ban means to others culture. lets ban each others culture


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## Offshore

Max said:


> This should be norm in whole Muslim world, so Chinese can realize what ban means to others culture. lets ban each others culture



Indeed!

Let's start ban Chinese investment and weapon !

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## Max

Offshore said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Let's start ban Chinese investment and weapon !



although weapon and investment have nothing to do with once culture, but yeah agree if needed


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## kankan326

Max said:


> This should be norm in whole Muslim world, so Chinese can realize what ban means to others culture. lets ban each others culture


I wonder what you can ban about Chinese culture. Muslim society has already been banning other cultures for thousand years.

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## TaiShang

Offshore said:


> Indeed!
> 
> Let's start ban Chinese investment and weapon !



What happens inside China's sovereign areas should not concern others. Especially if this so called concern is based on religious affinity, then, we need to rest them assured that we have no intention to service their spasms of disfigured consciousness.

Religion does not make nation. It is not a nation. Hence, it has no place in international relations. One can pursue one's business interests in another nation. But one cannot pursue 'their brother in faith's' interests in another nation.

Religious affinities stop where national borders begin.

Hence China did not pay heed to others' feelings when it vetoed UK-led resolution on Myanmar but only minded its and the region's larger interests.

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## TaiShang

*China's Xinjiang Province foreign trade soars 70% in Jan-Feb*

Xinhua, March 31, 2017

The foreign trade volume of northwest China's Xinjiang Region soared over 70 percent year on year in the first two months of 2017, local authorities said Friday.

Urumqi Customs data showed that Xinjiang's trade value reached 21.3 billion yuan (about 3.1 billion U.S. dollars) in the first two months, up 74.1 percent year on year.

Exported goods, mainly textiles, shoes and mechanical parts, reached 18.3 billion yuan, up 73.5 percent year on year.

Imported goods, including mechanical equipment and farm produce, stood at 3.01 billion yuan, up 77.7 percent year on year.

Kazakhstan remains Xinjiang's top trade partner, with a trade volume of 6.72 billion yuan, with growth of 77.9 percent.

Increasing global demand and depreciation of the Chinese currency are among the factors contributing to the trade growth, according to customs officials.

The central government and Xinjiang regional government have boosted trade through expanding trade channels between Xinjiang and its trading partners, improving transportation and investing in trade information systems.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> See that's a wicked thinking... They are Chinese... And so they have the right to believe in whatever they want and practice whatever religion they want, if they stay in the respect of others, that's what 99% of them do. So why do they need to leave their country??? So tibetan bouddhist should leave the country too? bc their form of belief is not similar to the Hans? Chritians too? Jews? or whatever beliefs around the block??? Keep it straight will you...
> 
> Just bc they practice a religion who is different than you? or a language? those guys were around there bf the Creation of TOday China, remember it...
> And Han has no privilege... sometimes ppl.



Muslims have their right to believe what they want in their countries and have no right to meddling into other nation affaires, if you want to show solidarity to your Muslim brother and sister in China, fine and you should shoulder their crimes as well? if any Muslim nation commit a crime around the world, we will hold Tunisia accountable as well and make it pay for the crime that it didn't commit...sound fair to you?

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Muslims have their right to believe what they want in their countries and have no right to meddling into other nation affaires, if you want to show solidarity to your Muslim brother and sister, fine and you should shoulder their crimes as well? if any Muslim nation commit a crime, we will hold Tunisia accountable as well and make it pay for the crime that it didn't commit...sound fair to you?




Did you rly wrote that? you? of all around here...

So if you show solidarity to some discrimination or assault on any chinese guy around the globe, does that mean you will shouder their crimes too?? Then what happen to the chinese guy in France? is that ok? should you not speak about it? argue about it???

Arguing about some oppressive behavior by some Gov official is problematic??? Can't I speak? Can't I argue with respect? Tell me? I'm rly dreaming right now...

And where do I put the BLame on Chinese ppl?? where?? Bc you have to understand that I CAN ARGUE ABOUT the behavior of a GOVERNMENT. nowhere I said Chinese did this or that.

Or Maybe your Gov if perfect, and if speaking about a gov is forbidden or touch every Chinse ppl around the globe, then so be it. You may have argued about America or any nation around the globe, does That mean I should tell you to shut up?? or it is not your right to speak about such subject??

Sorry for that long monologue, but what you wrote and those before you, is very disturbing. Can't ppl accept that GOV =/= the ppl / Nation.

So here my last sentence. Chinese Gov is doing wrong to a minority. Imposing one ideology upon what they believe ( like restriction of Ramadan/ Veil/Beard and so on) is not a good thing to do. AND those ppl (uyghur) are Chinese and were with their beliefs and language bf TODAY CHINA.
When you oppress or impose a belief upon others for the sake of being " THe same as the majority" you will only fuel Hatred and Anger of a few among them that will use the first opportunity to let you know that they are still alive and willing to fight for.

Accepting and letting ppl practice their beliefs ( with repect to others ofc) will not push your country into madness or separation or any kind of trumpist stupidity.

END

ps: about the Tunisian/muslim analogy... be Happy it's already happening, with all those blockade/restriction , racism around the world, bc of few bastards among us...


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## Jlaw

HannibalBarca said:


> See that's a wicked thinking... They are Chinese... And so they have the right to believe in whatever they want and practice whatever religion they want, if they stay in the respect of others, that's what 99% of them do. So why do they need to leave their country??? So tibetan bouddhist should leave the country too? bc their form of belief is not similar to the Hans? Chritians too? Jews? or whatever beliefs around the block??? Keep it straight will you...
> 
> Just bc they practice a religion who is different than you? or a language? those guys were around there bf the Creation of TOday China, remember it...
> And Han has no privilege... sometimes ppl.


 You can legally apply citizenship to another country. Why don't your country accept them? No United Muslim to help these "oppressed" Uighurs?

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## HannibalBarca

Jlaw said:


> You can legally apply citizenship to another country. Why don't your country accept them? No United Muslim to help these "oppressed" Uighurs?


@Kiss_of_the_Dragon Can we have your Answer on that...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Did you rly wrote that? you? of all around here...
> 
> So if you show solidarity to some discrimination or assault on any chinese guy around the globe, does that mean you will shouder their crimes too?? Then what happen to the chinese guy in France? is that ok? should you not speak about it? argue about it???
> 
> Arguing about some oppressive behavior by some Gov official is problematic??? Can't I speak? Can't I argue with respect? Tell me? I'm rly dreaming right now...
> 
> And where do I put the BLame on Chinese ppl?? where?? Bc you have to understand that I CAN ARGUE ABOUT the behavior of a GOVERNMENT. nowhere I said Chinese did this or that.
> 
> Or Maybe your Gov if perfect, and if speaking about a gov is forbidden or touch every Chinse ppl around the globe, then so be it. You may have argued about America or any nation around the globe, does That mean I should tell you to shut up?? or it is not your right to speak about such subject??
> 
> Sorry for that long monologue, but what you wrote and those before you, is very disturbing. Can't ppl accept that GOV =/= the ppl / Nation.
> 
> So here my last sentence. Chinese Gov is doing wrong to a minority. Imposing one ideology upon what they believe ( like restriction of Ramadan/ Veil/Beard and so on) is not a good thing to do. AND those ppl (uyghur) are Chinese and were with their beliefs and language bf TODAY CHINA.
> When you oppress or impose a belief upon others for the sake of being " THe same as the majority" you will only fuel Hatred and Anger of a few among them that will use the first opportunity to let you know that they are still alive and willing to fight for.
> 
> Accepting and letting ppl practice their beliefs ( with repect to others ofc) will not push your country into madness or separation or any kind of trumpist stupidity.
> 
> END
> 
> ps: about the Tunisian/muslim analogy... be Happy it's already happening, with all those blockade/restriction , racism around the world, bc of few bastards among us...



Yes I wrote that before but you don't seem to understand, A lot of people like you want to show solidarity to Muslim cause but when time to shoulder the responsibility for the crime, you guys just brush it away and claim that's it isolate cases, this trick never work with Chinese people.

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## lonelyman

What are we arguing here?

Burka and long beard is not symbol of Islam and local Uighurs, their traditional clothes are very colorful.

Millions of Chinese Muslims do not wear that does not mean you are not a Muslim.

Burka is a symbol of Islam fundamentalism (Wahhabism) embraced by ISIS, which is also banned in several countries such as France.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> @Kiss_of_the_Dragon Can we have your Answer on that...



Well that's the question addressed to you?

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Yes I wrote that before but you don't seem to understand, A lot of people like you want to show solidarity to Muslim cause but when time to shoulder the responsibility for the crime, you guys just brush it away and claim that's it isolate cases, this trick never work with Chinese people.



Well ... we are saying that terrorism is a cancer... are you speaking about those crimes?

So showing support to something oppressive is wrong? I'm quite lost with your mindset tbh...

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Well that's the question addressed to you?



I wanted to see where you belong... seems by not answering I think I may know now  I'm a little disappointed, but whatever.

So here my Answer.

This guy want them to leave if they want to keep practicing their religion.
So they are not seen as "Chinese" meaning what they said about oppression and so on, wasn't that false after all. They are not seen as chinese , neither believed to be "patriotic" always this suspiscious fantasy of them being "stranger" "double agent" and so on.

In the End ppl like him, who think they do not belong in china if they practice their religion, are a cancer to his own nation. With ppl like him conflict will rise, whatever "unification of mind " the Commy party want to put in motion, religion is not any ideology. It was way before any type of Gov/nation around the centuries and will stay like that till the End.

China is doing the same mistake as anyone before her. if she can't find a way to accomodate everyone before that.


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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> Did you rly wrote that? you? of all around here...
> 
> So if you show solidarity to some discrimination or assault on any chinese guy around the globe, does that mean you will shouder their crimes too?? Then what happen to the chinese guy in France? is that ok? should you not speak about it? argue about it???
> 
> Arguing about some oppressive behavior by some Gov official is problematic??? Can't I speak? Can't I argue with respect? Tell me? I'm rly dreaming right now...
> 
> And where do I put the BLame on Chinese ppl?? where?? Bc you have to understand that I CAN ARGUE ABOUT the behavior of a GOVERNMENT. nowhere I said Chinese did this or that.
> 
> Or Maybe your Gov if perfect, and if speaking about a gov is forbidden or touch every Chinse ppl around the globe, then so be it. You may have argued about America or any nation around the globe, does That mean I should tell you to shut up?? or it is not your right to speak about such subject??
> 
> Sorry for that long monologue, but what you wrote and those before you, is very disturbing. Can't ppl accept that GOV =/= the ppl / Nation.
> 
> So here my last sentence. Chinese Gov is doing wrong to a minority. Imposing one ideology upon what they believe ( like restriction of Ramadan/ Veil/Beard and so on) is not a good thing to do. AND those ppl (uyghur) are Chinese and were with their beliefs and language bf TODAY CHINA.
> When you oppress or impose a belief upon others for the sake of being " THe same as the majority" you will only fuel Hatred and Anger of a few among them that will use the first opportunity to let you know that they are still alive and willing to fight for.
> 
> Accepting and letting ppl practice their beliefs ( with repect to others ofc) will not push your country into madness or separation or any kind of trumpist stupidity.
> 
> END
> 
> ps: about the Tunisian/muslim analogy... be Happy it's already happening, with all those blockade/restriction , racism around the world, bc of few bastards among us...


No more sh1t talking. Can you give us a doable way to stop your Muslim brothers killing innocent people in the name of your God? If not please shut up when we use our way to settle it. You have no right to deny what we do cause doing something is always better than doing nothing.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Well ... we are saying that terrorism is a cancer... are you speaking about those crimes?
> 
> So showing support to something oppressive is wrong? I'm quite lost with your mindset tbh...



There you're, terrorism is a cancer, China just took a preventive measure to prevent that happen and you guys label it as oppressive against Muslim people. So logically if you don't want China to take preventive measure then you should be responsible to any terror happen to China.... it's not a mindset... it's logical cause/effect.

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## HannibalBarca

kankan326 said:


> No more sh1t talking. Can you give us a doable way to stop your Muslim brothers killing innocent people in the name of your God? If not please shut up when we use our way to settle it. You have no right to deny what we do cause doing something is always better than doing nothing.



Well do you know how extremism rise?? it's simple, they just need to find someone who "officially" say and "do" things against Muslims. AQ/ISIS has done it by using AMerica/ or the soviet at one time and like ISIS do today with IRAN and EUrope... Simple.

Chinese gov, is just jumping on it, like a virgin butterfly...



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> There you're, terror is a cancer, China just toke a preventive measure to prevent that happen and you guys label it as oppressive against Muslim people. So logically if you don't want China to take preventive measure then you should be responsible to any terror happen to China....it's not a mindset...it's logicial cause/effect.



So preventing someone to PRACTICE "FULLY" HIS RELIGION is being PREVENTIVE!!! come on... problems arise from that. You are just giving free escuse to terro to find free soldiers for them...

That region has potential and yet Gov investment are recent , very recent. THey are seen as different from the other part of china, in this Thread right now FEW SAW THEM AS NOT CHINESE... and you ask why all that happen..;

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## Max

kankan326 said:


> I wonder what you can ban about Chinese culture. Muslim society has already been banning other cultures for thousand years



i am not sure, but we can work out detail if necessary, for example ME countries can impose beard veil and Turban on Chinese men and women and force them to eat Halal


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## HannibalBarca

Max said:


> i am not sure, but we can work out detail if necessary, for example ME countries can impose beard veil and Turban on Chinese men and women and force them to eat Halal



and convert them too...

But it's not in our culture... so not gonna happen.

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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> Well do you know how extremism rise?? it's simple, they just need to find someone who "officially" say and "do" things against Muslims. AQ/ISIS has done it by using AMerica/ or the soviet at one time and like ISIS do today with IRAN and EUrope... Simple.
> 
> Chinese gov, is just jumping on it, like a virgin butterfly...
> 
> 
> 
> So preventing someone to PRACTICE "FULLY" HIS RELIGION is being PREVENTIVE!!! come on... problems arise from that. You are just giving free escuse to terro to find free soldiers for them...
> 
> That region has potential and yet Gov investment are recent , very recent. THey are seen as different from the other part of china, in this Thread right now FEW SAW THEM AS NOT CHINESE... and you ask why all that happen..;


So your answer is, to avoid terrorist attack, non-Muslims should treat you Muslims like God. Muslims are not living in paradise, Okay? There are gotta be conflicts among different cultures. According to your theory, extremism among Muslims are inevitalbe？

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## HannibalBarca

kankan326 said:


> So your answer is, to avoid terrorist attack, non-Muslims should treat you Muslims like God. Muslims are not living in paradise, Okay? There are gotta be conflicts among different cultures. According to your theory, extremism among Muslims are inevitalbe？



Where did I state to make them GOD???

Just give them the opportunity to be like others and let them practice their religion freely. ANd stop that power show, with thousands of police in the street in that region... it's like a military occupation. WHat ppl will think... that they are threats...

China communist party do not like religion, bc it could be used against them, as a power tool. so they are doing what they know, thinking by turning them into "Every look alike" with same ideology, mindset, they could find peace and stability and stay in power. That time is over. The world of today is different.

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## kankan326

Max said:


> i am not sure, but we can work out detail if necessary, for example ME countries can impose beard veil and Turban on Chinese men and women and force them to eat Halal


The good news is, Chinese do eat Hala and Chinese women do wear veil when they come to some Muslim countries. See, we are fine with that. That's our culture, flexible and adaptable

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## faithfulguy

HannibalBarca said:


> Well do you know how extremism rise?? it's simple, they just need to find someone who "officially" say and "do" things against Muslims. AQ/ISIS has done it by using AMerica/ or the soviet at one time and like ISIS do today with IRAN and EUrope... Simple.
> 
> Chinese gov, is just jumping on it, like a virgin butterfly...
> 
> 
> 
> So preventing someone to PRACTICE "FULLY" HIS RELIGION is being PREVENTIVE!!! come on... problems arise from that. You are just giving free escuse to terro to find free soldiers for them...
> 
> That region has potential and yet Gov investment are recent , very recent. THey are seen as different from the other part of china, in this Thread right now FEW SAW THEM AS NOT CHINESE... and you ask why all that happen..;



If I read it correctly, the issue is that having long beard was not popularly practiced among Muslims in China until Wahhabism influence. So the question is why are Muslims inChina suddenly starting to have long beard. 

In my opinion, I think it's ill advised if the Chinese government is preventing practices perform by Muslims in China for a long time. But if it's a recent practice, than it's a different matter.

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## HannibalBarca

faithfulguy said:


> If I read it correctly, the issue is that having long beard was not popularly practiced among Muslims in China until Wahhabism influence. So the question is why are Muslims inChina suddenly starting to have long beard.
> 
> In my opinion, I think it's ill advised if the Chinese government is preventing practices perform by Muslims in China for a long time. But if it's a recent practice, than it's a different matter.



Well the beard is not a matter, the old one used to have a beard. But it's mostly in practicing the religion. like restriction in Ramadan or some prayer and so on. And the veil for woman was around since the beginning, it's not new... in the other hand "Burqa" the all black thing with only the eye out, is not from our religion, it's an afghani thing. But China want to ban even the Veil on the Head...

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> So preventing someone to PRACTICE "FULLY" HIS RELIGION is being PREVENTIVE!!! come on... problems arise from that. You are just giving free escuse to terro to find free soldiers for them...
> 
> That region has potential and yet Gov investment are recent , very recent. THey are seen as different from the other part of china, in this Thread right now FEW SAW THEM AS NOT CHINESE... and you ask why all that happen..;



Don't try to skate, are you (Tunisian ) willing to shoulder responsibility of anything terror happen if we don't take preventive measure? Yes or NO?

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## Max

kankan326 said:


> The good news is, Chinese do eat Halal and Chinese women do wear veil when they come to some Muslim countries. See, we are fine with that.



Chinese citizen do violate halal regulations in Muslim countries but our govts tolerate them as friendly gesture, they even allow them alcohol and other banned stuff. anyways cheers, we have deal, impose your stuff on each other since you cant tolerate beard and veil of Muslims.


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## faithfulguy

kankan326 said:


> The good news is, Chinese do eat Hala and Chinese women do wear veil when they come to some Muslim countries. See, we are fine with that. That's our culture, flexible and adaptable



When Chinese visit Muslim countries, they should respect local costumes. But it's easier for Chinese to follow the customs of other countries as Chinese eat everything. I don't think China should prevent foreign nationals from preserving their custom when they visit China as well.

The issue here is not foreign nationals, but Chinese Muslims. The government is not imposing restrictions on local Muslim practices that has been around for a long time.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Don't try to skate, are you (Tunisian ) willing to shoulder responsibility of anything terror happen if we don't take preventive measure? Yes or NO?



I'm against terro. but those preventive measure are not PREVENTIVE, they will only fuel problems. Banning the beard or veil is not even the problem, bc it's not even the core of the conflict, the Chinese gov impose restriction on PRACTICING their religion, like limiting ramadan on yougster or only those older than 30 years old can go to prayer and so on... 

Islam is not only beard+veil....


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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> Where did I state to make them GOD???
> 
> Just give them the opportunity to be like others and let them practice their religion freely. ANd stop that power show, with thousands of police in the street in that region... it's like a military occupation. WHat ppl will think... that they are threats...
> 
> China communist party do not like religion, bc it could be used against them, as a power tool. so they are doing what they know, thinking by turning them into "Every look alike" with same ideology, mindset, they could find peace and stability and stay in power. That time is over. The world of today is different.


How can you explain the terrorist attacks in western countries? For example, Germany. Muslims are not free practicing their religion there?

Don't blame our government. You better blame your brothers. China is not the only country banning the veil

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## HannibalBarca

kankan326 said:


> How can explain the terrorist attacks in western countries? For example, Germany. Muslims are not free practicing their religion there?
> 
> Don't blame our government. You better blame your brothers. China is not the only country ban the veil



The attack are done by terro who use what happen to muslims in ME to attack, like Syrian conflict with 400k death, palestine, Irak and so on...
Yesterday it was ben laden with Afghanistan/Iraqi conflict to day it's another. Oppression on belief= Free soldiers for Terro

And they are no brother to us. keep your tongue straight.

We are the first victims..

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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> The attack are done by terro who use what happen to muslims in ME to attack, like Syrian conflict with 400k death, palestine, Irak and so on...
> Yesterday it was ben laden with Afghanistan/Iraqi conflict to day it's another. Oppression on belief= Free soldiers for Terro


Okay. How could we stop those terrorists who attack both Muslims and non-Muslims in the name of your God?
I should remind you that those Uyghur terrorists in China attack all people.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Well the beard is not a matter, the old one used to have a beard. But it's mostly in practicing the religion. like restriction in Ramadan or some prayer and so on. And the veil for woman was around since the beginning, it's not new... in the other hand "Burqa" the all black thing with only the eye out, is not from our religion, it's an afghani thing. *But China want to ban even the Veil on the Head.*..



When Chinese non-Muslim women go to Muslim countries, they have to have Veil, it's against our will but we have to do to show respect to Muslim country...if Muslim nations care so much about religious freedom, they should do the same allow to all non Muslim to walk free in their nations without the Veil...we ask for reciprocity.

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## HannibalBarca

kankan326 said:


> Okay. How could we stop those terrorists who attack both Muslims and non-Muslims in the name of your God?



Fighting those who remains and Give those who " MAY WANT TO " join them equal opportunities. Those guys who join them are not all religious ppl, they are mostly ppl with problems, poor , simple minded, criminals who found a way out to their shitty life.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> When Chinese non-Muslim women go to Muslim countries, they have to have Veil, it's against our will but we have to do to show respect to Muslim country...if Muslim nations care so much about religious freedom, they should do the same allow to all non Muslim to walk free in their nations without the Veil.



CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE CHINESE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and not TOURISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OR just tell me that uyghur ARE NOT CHINESE that way I will understand.

So those racist bigots who say to an american ( with chinese parents or grand parents) to go back to his country, even to" he was born in America, just because he doesn't look like them or behave like them???


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> I'm against terro. but those preventive measure are not PREVENTIVE, they will only fuel problems. Banning the beard or veil is not even the problem, bc it's not even the core of the conflict, the Chinese gov impose restriction on PRACTICING their religion, like limiting ramadan on yougster or only those older than 30 years old can go to prayer and so on...
> 
> Islam is not only beard+veil....



You didn't answer the question...yes or no?

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## kankan326

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> When Chinese non-Muslim women go to Muslim countries, they have to have Veil, it's against our will but we have to do to show respect to Muslim country...if Muslim nations care so much about religious freedom, they should do the same allow to all non Muslim to walk free in their nations without the Veil...we ask for reciprocity.


When non-Muslims come to Muslim countries, it's Muslim's rule. When Muslims come to non-Muslim countries, it's also Muslim's rule. That's why I feel funny when a Muslim said they will ban Chinese culture.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THEY ARE CHINESE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> and not TOURISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> OR just tell me that uyghur ARE NOT CHINESE that way I will understand.



What you you trying to say?

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You didn't answer the question...yes or no?


for?



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> What you you trying to say?



We are speaking about yughur who ARE CHINESE, so why using the "When Chinese ppl goes to muslim country we wear veil" ... what logic it is??

They are chinese ppl or not???



kankan326 said:


> When non-Muslims come to Muslim countries, it's Muslim's rule. When Muslims come to non-Muslim countries, it's also Muslim's rule. That's why I feel funny when a Muslim said they will ban Chinese culture.


Uyghur are chinese... omg... there is no Muslim goes there then that.... THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!!!


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

kankan326 said:


> When non-Muslims come to Muslim countries, it's Muslim's rule. When Muslims come to non-Muslim countries, it's also Muslim's rule. That's why I feel funny when a Muslim said they will ban Chinese culture.



That what I want to point out, we have never ask a foreign Muslim believer to remove their veil but respect their religious believe even in China but now got lecturing for how we should treate our own citizens...LMAO

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> That what I want to point out, we have never ask a foreign Muslim believer to remove their veil but respect their religious believe even in China but now got lecturing for how we should treate our own citizens...LMAO



So those uyghur have no right to say anything about their own things? China gov should use and control their belief and doing from birth to death???



kankan326 said:


> What if some Muslims are not capable at competing with other non-Muslims for their religion issue. You should know Chinese children normally study very hard and Muslims spend too much time on their religion lessons.



So you are saying that Muslims Chinese are not hard workers? that all of them study religion class?? come on... in the End if you work you get rewarded, simple as that, Religion will not put you behind the other...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> for?
> 
> We are speaking about yughur who ARE CHINESE, so why using the "When Chinese ppl goes to muslim country we wear veil" ... what logic it is??
> 
> They are chinese ppl or not???
> 
> Uyghur are chinese... omg... there is no Muslim goes there then that.... THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY!!!



For what I asked initially, is your people willing to should terror responsibility of we don't take preventive measure?
And I merely return your favor with similar question regarding the veil and religious freedom, why non-Muslim believe have to wear Veil in Muslim countries, isn't this also an oppressive act against non-Muslim people?

Uyghur in their own country?  even your government wouldn't dare to say out loud but back down to China's will.

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## Offshore

Just wanna say.
If you wanna meddle our internal matter, you better ask your country to do invasion on China!
That's the only way you can impose your religion fantasy over China! 
Otherwise, STFU!
And mind your own business !

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> For what I asked initially, is your people willing to should terror responsibility of we don't take preventive measure?
> And I merely return your favor with similar question regarding the veil and religious freedom, why non-Muslim believe have to wear Veil in Muslim countries, isn't this also an oppressive act against non-Muslim people?
> 
> Uyghur in their own country?  even your government wouldn't dare to say out loud but back down to China's will.



Speaking about country I was meaning China...

ANd no one impose non muslim to wear veil in our country... THe only ones will be maybe IRan/and Gulf states... So let's put thing right. MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE NOT ONLY GULF+IRAN....

As for preventive measure, the one you use are not good. it's the same used back in the days... and as you can see the result today. Banning or restriction practice of a belief will not give you civil peace in your country. it will be used by Terro, it's their MOTTO the first condition for them to rise, it's that type of prevention. you


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> So those uyghur have no right to say anything about their own things? China gov should use and control their belief and doing from birth to death???



Uyghur have the right but not you, you're just an outsider, you don't have the right to lecture us how we should treate our people.

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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> So you are saying that Muslims Chinese are not hard workers? that all of them study religion class?? come on... in the End if you work you get rewarded, simple as that, Religion will not put you behind the other...


I live in China so I know Muslims belong the group who least care about education. But I don't want to talk you about this. I know you have no idea about how to get rid of terrorism. All your suggestion is: Treat our brothers better. If doesn't work, further better.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Uyghur have the right but not you, you're just an outsider, you don't have the right to lecture us how we should treate our people.



HOw you should treat OUR people... are they your property? Respect is the basic ...
And yes I have a say in that. that's free speech... maybe it's different in China but not Here.



kankan326 said:


> I live in China so I know Muslims belong the group who least care about education. But I don't want to talk you about this. I know you have no idea about how to get rid of terrorism. All your suggestion is: Treat our brothers better. If doesn't work, further better.


You didn't want to understand or couldn't... ANyway Have fun.
Don't come crying later... about foreign "hands"
Stay with your both feet on earth, speaking you are better, will not make you greater...

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Speaking about country I was meaning China...
> 
> ANd no one impose non muslim to wear veil in our country... THe only ones will be maybe IRan/and Gulf states... So let's put thing right. MUSLIM COUNTRIES ARE NOT ONLY GULF+IRAN....



Well since you're Champion defender of Muslim cause, than you should tell these countries to remove such policy to impose veil on non-Muslim instead of coming here to play a double standard game that some Muslim nations can impose their will on non-Muslim and non-Muslim nations have to respect Muslim's will.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Well since you're Champion defender of Muslim cause, than you should tell these countries to remove such policy to impose veil on non-Muslim instead of coming here to play a double standard game that some Muslim nations can impose their will on non-Muslim and non-Muslim nations have to respect Muslim's will.



To be fair with you only IRAN+KSA impose veil. ONLY 2 COUNTRies... So yep 99% do not impose such thing.
BTW IRan is getting ride of it for foreigner, only KSA is still with it. 
ANything to say?

Seems the veil gave you headache...  putting all the problem on that..; while we speak about oppression for some...

ANd yet you are still speaking about foregners... our subject was on Muslims chinese...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> HOw you should treat OUR people... are they your property? Respect is the basic ...
> And yes I have a say in that. that's free speech... maybe it's different in China but not Here.



As matter of fact yes, they still holding Chinese passport and recognized as Chinese citizen around the world include your country, dare you government say otherwise?, sure you entitle to have your opinion but we entitle our too.

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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> You didn't want to understand or couldn't... ANyway Have fun.
> Don't come crying later... about foreign "hands"
> Stay with your both feet on earth, speaking you are better, will not make you greater...


Is it a threat. Doesn't work either. China is already on ISIS list and a terrorist attack target. What worse it could be. I believe China will eventually eliminate all terrorists by banning the veil and bear and in return kick the Wahabbi out of China.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> As matter of fact yes, they still holding Chinese passport and recognized as Chinese citizen around the world include your country, dare you government say otherwise?, sure you entitle to have your opinion but we entitle our too.



Why are you speaking about that. where did I say they are not chinesE????



kankan326 said:


> Is it a threat. Doesn't work either. China is already on ISIS list and a terrorist attack target. What worse it could be. I believe China will eventually eliminate all terrorists by banning the veil and bear and in turn kick the Wahabbi out of China.



If you want , be my guest.
FYI those terro in EUrope and America... wasn't with their beard or veil... half of them were not even practicing islam...  have fun

When you will understand that those Terro are not Muslims, and therefore Muslims are not the target. you will get ride of them. But meanwhile be Happy with it 

ME tho' the same as you, by targeting radical muslims or else , they could get ride of them... they were wrong and now, they are tracked as criminal and not Religious fanatics... and that's why they are getting ride of them. Bc they ar enot seen as muslims anymore, therefore no pity...


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## kankan326

HannibalBarca said:


> Why are you speaking about that. where did I say they are not chinesE????
> 
> 
> 
> If you want , be my guest.
> FYI those terro in EUrope and America... wasn't with their beard or veil... half of them were not even practicing islam...  have fun
> 
> When you will understand that those Terro are not Muslims, and therefore Muslims are not the target. you will get ride of them. But meanwhile be Happy with it
> 
> ME tho' the same as you, by targeting radical muslims or else , they could get ride of them... they were wrong and now, they are tracked as criminal and not Religious fanatics... and that's why they are getting ride of them. Bc they ar enot seen as muslims anymore, therefore no pity...


Some of terrorists may be not practicing Islam. But almost all of them have muslim background. You and me both know what role the religion played among them. And for your information, unlike weak western countries, China is very tough. Chinese people normally are very kind but with strong will when facing serious problems. Terrorism philosophy may terrify some westerners. It will never terrify Chinese.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> To be fair with you only IRAN+KSA impose veil. ONLY 2 COUNTRies... So yep 99% do not impose such thing.
> BTW IRan is getting ride of it for foreigner, only KSA is still with it.
> ANything to say?
> 
> Seems the veil gave you headache...  putting all the problem on that..; while we speak about oppression for some...
> 
> ANd yet you are still speaking about foregners... our subject was on Muslims chinese...



You see, you lost your argument, first you call China as oppressive against Muslim and prevent them PRACTICE "FULLY" HIS RELIGION and when I ask how Muslims nations treat non-Muslim just take the veil as example, you're skating ... if you're man enough you should go and policing any Muslim nation from have oppressive policy against non-Muslim unless you're playing the double standard game.

and you still own me an answer if your country is willing to shoulder all terrorist responsibility if we don't take preventive measure?

Sure you're very smart, you just want to confine the discussion about Chinese Muslim so we can't counter with reciprocity questions, you think yo gonna shield yourself this way?

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You see, you lost your argument, first you call China as oppressive against Muslim and prevent them PRACTICE "FULLY" HIS RELIGION and when I ask how Muslims nations treat non-Muslim just take the veil as example, you're skating ... you're man enough you should go and policing any Muslim nation from have oppressive policy against non-Muslim unless you're playing the double standard game.
> 
> and you still own me an answer is your country is willing to shoulder all terrorist responsibility of we don't take preventive measure?
> 
> Sure you're very smart, you just want to confine the discussion about Chinese Muslim so we can't counter with reciprocity questions, you think yo gonna shield yourself this way?



You are being childish... but Whatever, I will answer your Q one last time.

Iran accept every religion, you have jews and christians and other religion in that country, same for KSA, yes you have jews , christians in that country, THEY ARE respected, they are not a lot, but there is.
SO yes NON-MUSLIMS have no problems in those countries, they are not killed or send to jail. ( they are target somtimes by those cancer terro, who are being tracked like rats by us) YOu may find it impoossible or crazy... but there is CHURCHES AND SYNAGOGUES in those both country and in any Muslim country around the world... WHat media portray are those fanatical groups mostly AQ/ISIS related and therefore the simpleminded one, like "you" (maybe) think all muslims are like them ( come visit and open your mind, maybe smthing will change with your behavior)

Second. I shoulder nothing, since I am not a part of them, AND your preventive measure are not good for that kind of problems. you preach the greatness of China gov, but one thing they lack is seeing what happening in other countries with similar problems. Restricting a practice will not give you peace, it will only fuel things. the only solution is to work with those "muslims" by accepting their beliefs and letting them do it and work with them to fight TOGHETER that cancer.

And last. YOu want to have ties with us, whatever it's today or tomorrow, you need to understand one thing. Our nations are changing, our power is shifting, and one thing for the future is, if you want to stay friends you have to respect those who share our belief. It's like if I ask you if you will respect me if I spit on your brother or sister.?

Anyway. Have Fun.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> You are being childish... but Whatever, I will answer your Q one last time.
> 
> Iran accept every religion, you have jews and christians and other religion in that country, same for KSA, yes you have jews , christians in that country, THEY ARE respected, they are not a lot, but there is.
> SO yes NON-MUSLIMS have no problems in those countries, they are not killed or send to jail. ( they are target somtimes by those cancer terro, who are being tracked like rats by us) YOu may find it impoossible or crazy... but there is CHURCHES AND SYNAGOGUES in those both country and in any Muslim country around the world... WHat media portray are those fanatical groups mostly AQ/ISIS related and therefore the simpleminded one, like "you" (maybe) think all muslims are like them ( come visit and open your mind, maybe smthing will change with your behavior)
> 
> Second. I shoulder nothing, since I am not a part of them, AND your preventive measure are not good for that kind of problems. you preach the greatness of China gov, but one thing they lack is seeing what happening in other countries with similar problems. Restricting a practice will not give you peace, it will only fuel things. the only solution is to work with those "muslims" by accepting their beliefs and letting them do it and work with them to fight TOGHETER that cancer.
> 
> And last. YOu want to have ties with us, whatever it's today or tomorrow, you need to understand one thing. Our nations are changing, our power is shifting, and one thing for the future is, if you want to stay friends you have to respect those who share our belief. It's like if I ask you if you will respect me if I spit on your brother or sister.?
> 
> Anyway. Have Fun.



Lol this sound like a black mail to me, if I understand what you're trying to say is this: there is no peace if we don't give what they want within our country, the only solution is to back down and comply to what their belief .

No you're wrong, we want tie not necessary with all Muslim countries but with moderate Muslim countries that not putting their nose into Chinese internal business affaire. For over millennium, China had never back down to Muslim's will and that's why China still remain an majority non-Muslim nation.

And they're not your brother nor sister, not even close, you just show solidarity in the name of Islam but if anything happen, you will get away of any responsibility such as terror attack and claim that is an isolated case has not thing to do you.



what a false flagger

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Lol this sound like a black mail to me, if I understand what you're trying to say is this: there is no peace if we don't give what they want within our country, the only solution is to back down and comply to what their belief .
> 
> No you're wrong, we want tie not necessary with all Muslim countries but with moderate Muslim countries that not putting their nose into Chinese internal business affaire. For over millennium, China had never back down to Muslim's will and that's why China still remain an majority non-Muslim nation.
> 
> And they're not your brother nor sister, not even close, you just show solidarity in the name of Islam but if anything happen, you will get away of any responsibility such as terror attack and claim that is an isolated case has not thing to do you.



China during millennium... didn't have those borders... you were only on central+ east cost...
Your border are new since last century... you took this part, and make it your own, like the TIbet area... So when you take something at least give it some respect.

And let's be clear. The one you have ties and do not open their mouth are not moderate... they are the rdicals.. 

And yes , if you want good relationship the first condition is mutual respect for both of us, whatever it's on cultural/economical or religious ground... It was like that for century btw ME and China. it's since the soviet era and your commy ideology that all changed...

And last. WHatever muslims around the World is my brother and sister. Accept it or not I don't really care. even Die Hard Pakistanis extra Pro-China, will say the same. 

Anyway. Let's end here. it's useless, it's not like you have any kind of power in your own country.

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## Offshore

HannibalBarca said:


> China during millennium... didn't have those borders... you were only on central+ east cost...
> Your border are new since last century... you took this part, and make it your own, like the TIbet area... So when you take something at least give it some respect.
> 
> And let's be clear. The one you have ties and do not open their mouth are not moderate... they are the rdicals..
> 
> And yes , if you want good relationship the first condition is mutual respect for both of us, whatever it's on cultural/economical or religious ground... It was like that for century btw ME and China. it's since the soviet era and your commy ideology that all changed...
> 
> And last. WHatever muslims around the World is my brother and sister. Accept it or not I don't really care. even Die Hard Pakistanis extra Pro-China, will say the same.
> 
> Anyway. Let's end here. it's useless, it's not like you have any kind of power in your own country.



You can say whatever you want , but it won't change how we conduct our internal affairs!

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> China during millennium... didn't have those borders... you were only on central+ east cost...
> Your border are new since last century... you took this part, and make it your own, like the TIbet area... So when you take something at least give it some respect.
> 
> And let's be clear. The one you have ties and do not open their mouth are not moderate... they are the rdicals..
> 
> And yes , if you want good relationship the first condition is mutual respect for both of us, whatever it's on cultural/economical or religious ground... It was like that for century btw ME and China. it's since the soviet era and your commy ideology that all changed...
> 
> And last. WHatever muslims around the World is my brother and sister. Accept it or not I don't really care. even Die Hard Pakistanis extra Pro-China, will say the same.



You want to talk about Mutual respect, we can handle that, if you're capable to handling reciprocity approach than we will have no problem: how about this tell all Muslim nation to remove all religious restrictions on all non-Muslim in their respect countries such wearing veil, drinking alcohol...we will do the same to respect Muslim's will in our country... fair deal?

You can label any one as your brother and sister, we don't really care but if you should be held accountable as well for your artificial relation.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You want to talk about Mutual respect, we can handle that, if you're capable to handling reciprocity approach than we will have no problem: how about this tell all Muslim nation to remove all religious restrictions on all non-Muslim in their respect countries such wearing veil, drinking alcohol...we will do the same to respect Muslim's will in our country... fair deal?
> 
> You can label any one as your brother and sister, we don't really care but if you should be held accountable as well for your artificial relation.



Those restriction of non-muslims do not exist in ALL muslim world except 2... Iran/KSA. And even in those 2 you can drink and do drugs... . Meanwhile every other muslims nation there is no restriction on non-muslims... If any problems happen on non-muslims it will not be from the GOV, but from maybe few fanatics/stupid groups, who are being chased , jailed by the police...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Those restriction of non-muslims do not exist in ALL muslim world except 2... Iran/KSA. And even in those 2 you can drink and do drugs... . Meanwhile every other muslims nation there is no restriction on non-muslims... If any problems happen on non-muslims it will not be from the GOV, but from maybe few fanatics/stupid groups, who are being chased , jailed by the police...



There is no exception, deal or not deal since we're talking about mutual respect between Muslim and Non-Muslim world. Personally I have not problem with Muslim at all, it's just question of reciprocity...accept what we're in your countries and we will do the same.

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## kankan326

pts_m_h_2016 said:


> But in THe ENd , you either took what you hated or supported what you hated at first...
> N-Korea is a burden today... You became commies and Vietnam is not that friendly ..;


I just want you guys to know. China is a tough country and Chinese are not as weak as you thought. Don't mess up with China.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> There is no exception, deal or not deal since we're talking about mutual respect between Muslim and Non-Muslim world.



Well come to KSA, you will be able to drink/drug yourself and copulate as you wish... same for Iran, as a foreigner you will get nothing. ofc don't do it on public street...
tbh even none foreigners are doing so for a long time... in those 2 "special" country...

In the End whatever non-muslim or muslim thingy you want to put... Your gov will not respect, neither give more grounds to religious practice. It's a communist ideology, where atheism is the core and "Same a everyone" the motto. Why? simple, they want to stay in power with that type of ideology... The problem is that it's shiffting, more and more conversion is made in China like christianity and mostly in top middle class... .

From the last numbers China could be by the End of the Century the country with one of the biggest Christian community or Muslim Community and the answer will be to see where ties / allies/enemies will be in the coming decades...


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## grey boy 2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You want to talk about Mutual respect, we can handle that, if you're capable to handling reciprocity approach than we will have no problem: how about this tell all Muslim nation to remove all religious restrictions on all non-Muslim in their respect countries such wearing veil, drinking alcohol...we will do the same to respect Muslim's will in our country... fair deal?
> 
> You can label any one as your brother and sister, we don't really care but if you should be held accountable as well for your artificial relation.



Bro, unfortunately "Mutual respect" can never be found in their "religious fanatic" dictionary
Like my professor in my college taught us something interesting is that the term "Religious Caste System" which label and classify "Human with religion ONLY" similar to how the Indians "Caste System" work
According to "Religious Fanatics Caste System" there are "NO nationalities", human being must be classify by religion only
Example will be "Like if you're not a believer of their religion, you're expendable and considered "NON Human and EVIL" by default
To all my Chinese bros ans sister, please don't waste your time reasoning with those religious fanatics, because they've already "made up their mind" you're wrong and evil and they're the always "Right and Holy" due to their "Religion Superiority" over us the so-called "Non believers" before your engagement with them even started.

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## HannibalBarca

grey boy 2 said:


> Bro, unfortunately "Mutual respect" can never be found in their "religious fanatic" dictionary
> Like my professor in my college taught us something interesting is that the term "Religious Caste System" which label and classify "Human with religion ONLY" similar to how the Indians "Caste System" work
> According to "Religious Fanatics Caste System" there are "NO nationalities", human being must be classify by religion only
> Example will be "Like if you're not a believer of their religion, you're expendable and considered "NON Human and EVIL" by default
> To all my Chinese bros ans sister, please don't waste your time reasoning with those religious fanatics, because they've already "made up their mind" you're wrong and evil and they're the always "Right and Holy" due to their "Religion Superiority" over us the so-called "Non believers" before your engagement with them even started.



You should go back to college then... where did you see we argued about "Religion"??,


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Well come to KSA, you will be able to drink/drug yourself and copulate as you wish... same for Iran, as a foreigner you will get nothing. ofc don't do it on public street...
> tbh even none foreigners are doing so for a long time... in those 2 "special" country...
> 
> In the End whatever non-muslim or muslim thingy you want to put... Your gov will not respect, neither give more grounds to religious practice. It's a communist ideology, where atheism is the core and "Same a everyone" the motto. Why? simple, they want to stay in power with that type of ideology... The problem is that it's shiffting, more and more conversion is made in China like christianity and mostly in top middle class... .
> 
> From the last numbers China could be by the End of the Century the country with one of the biggest Christian community or Muslim Community and the answer will be to see where ties / allies/enemies will be in the coming decades...



As I repeated again if you want to have fair deal, I believe all non-Muslim will agree with me for reciprocity: you want to defend Muslim cause with within our nation, we will defend non-Muslim cause within Muslim nation, I think you have no problem with that?

China will never tilt toward Islam or Christianity, most likely we will pacify both and unite all together with Buddhism to form an new " *GOD believer*"  that we will no longer be tormented for choosing side.

When all attempt fail, prepare to be assimilated any resistance is futile.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> As I repeated again if you want to have fair deal, I believe all non-Muslim will agree with me for reciprocity: you want to defend Muslim cause with within our nation, we will defend non-Muslim cause within Muslim nation, I think you have no problem with that?
> 
> China will never tilt toward Islam or Christianity, most likely we will pacify both and unite all together with Buddhism to form an new " *GOD believer*"  that we will no longer be tormented for choosing side.



Ah yeah buddhism is the key  China was in peace for millenniums... no killing for the sake of sacrifice for the Emperor... 

Meanwhile you don't have to defend non-muslims, since the core subject is that uyghur are chinese and muslims and as fellow chinese to them you should respcet and protect them... or maybe muslims chinese ar enot true chinese.. who knows..


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## Offshore

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> As I repeated again if you want to have fair deal, I believe all non-Muslim will agree with me for reciprocity: you want to defend Muslim cause with within our nation, we will defend non-Muslim cause within Muslim nation, I think you have no problem with that?
> 
> China will never tilt toward Islam or Christianity, most likely we will pacify both and unite all together with Buddhism to form an new " *GOD believer*"  that we will no longer be tormented for choosing side.
> 
> When all attempt fail, prepare to be assimilated any resistance is futile.



We Chinese already have a GOD!!!


MONEY!!!!!!!!!

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Ah yeah buddhism is the key  China was in peace for millenniums... no killing for the sake of sacrifice for the Emperor...
> 
> Meanwhile you don't have to defend non-muslims, since the core subject is that uyghur are chinese and muslims and as fellow chinese to them you should respcet and protect them... or maybe muslims chinese ar enot true chinese.. who knows..



You can say something bad about Buddhism and they can equally have the right to say about Islam but I'm a non-religious, I belong to no GOD and I worship no one other than my ancestors that fought so hard (famine, wars) generation for generation to give me life and what I'm today.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You can say something bad about Buddhism and they can equally have the right to say about Islam but I'm a non-religious, I belong to no GOD and I worship no one other than my ancestors that fought so hard (famine, wars) generation for generation to give me life and what I'm today.



Yep ancestors who worked hard to give you a future... but remember it's because of those in power and their predecessors that your ancestors worked like slave till they died...

I have nothing against buddhism, it's just you put it in front of me.. with it being the key... something I never said with Islam...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Offshore said:


> We Chinese already have a GOD!!!
> 
> 
> MONEY!!!!!!!!!

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


>



still religious ..taoism... seems beliefs is hard to kill


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> still religious ..taoism... seems beliefs is hard to kill



LMAO...praying for money is call religious?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

pts_m_h_2016 said:


> I agree.
> 
> China should do what you say.
> 
> China should not care if all Malaysian Chinese are killed or mowed down.
> 
> But that's not what it does.
> 
> @AUz what do you have to say about your Chinese brother's double standards?
> 
> They interfere in domestic affairs of Malaysia, with no qualms.
> 
> But warn Muslims against interfering in their internal affairs.



you have to make different between blood relate brother and faith brother, if China want to defend all non-Muslim brother around the world...how this gonna end???

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> you have to make different between blood relate brother and faith brother, if China want to defend all non-Muslim brother around the world...how this gonna end???



Well TBH religious ppl at least monotheist ones will not take you as defenders of non-muslims... either.

Seems lack of knowlege is hurting some... Christians/Jews/Muslims don't see non-believers as brother/sisters ... To them you are someone you will also go straight to hell, since you don't believe...

So don't put the Muslim thing VS the world... The rest of the world is not in love with you either... ( atheist at least)
Anyway Have FUn.

ps: religious point of view... lets not jump on your horses...


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> AHAHAH and you are praying to who?? mother theresa?? to someone stronger/greater than you... in hope you prayer is made... is that not believing in something?? or you need a definition of "religion"??? doing the act of prayer is litterally being religious ( acting the religion) omg sometimes ppl..;



When I need money , I gonna pray any religious god for a jack pot after that all these GOD are on their own

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> When I need money , I gonna pray any religious god for a jack pot after that all these GOD are on their own



Well you are free to pray to a statut made by someone in his garage or cave... and wait till "miracle" shows up 

I have one too, he needs 200$ to accept a prayer and "maybe" give you what you want you prayed for


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Well TBH religious ppl at least monotheist ones will not take you as defenders of non-muslims... either.
> 
> Seems lack of knowlege is hurting some... Christians/Jews/Muslims don't see non-believers as brother/sisters ... To them you are someone you will also go straight to hell, since you don't believe...
> 
> So don't put the Muslim thing VS the world... The rest of the world is not in love with you either... ( atheist at least)
> Anyway Have FUn.
> 
> ps: religious point of view... lets not jump on your horses...



Sure you don't like that I bring up non-Muslim because you're so afraid of if we show solidary to each other as you guys for Muslim cause...I can understand that



HannibalBarca said:


> Well you are free to pray to a statut made by someone in his garage or cave... and wait till "miracle" shows up
> 
> I have one too, he needs 200$ to accept a prayer and "maybe" give you what you want you prayed for



We show equally respect to any GOD on earth even an insignificant statut in the garage or drawing in the cave, that how we free ourselves from been tormented by religion...so no string attach.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Sure you don't like that I bring up non-Muslim because you're so afraid of if we show solidary to each other as you guys for Muslim cause...I can understand that



Well the world didn't waited for you to jump on the anti-muslim rethoric... 
And EVERY superpower in the world till this day got their teeth crushed, the moment they put their foot on any Muslims country... Every time they think it's over.. fe years later they are back in it... Russia said never agian after the Taliban humiliation..; now they are back in Syria. same for the US and EUrope... no more Iraq and bam again...

In the END it's been like that for more than 1400 years... and every time they ar eback... at least their son.. who already forgot their parent history and suffering on that field.

And now others want to try 



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Sure you don't like that I bring up non-Muslim because you're so afraid of if we show solidary to each other as you guys for Muslim cause...I can understand that
> 
> 
> 
> We show equally respect to any GOD on earth even an insignificant statut in the garage or drawing in the cave, that how we free ourselves from been tormented by religion...so no string attach.



Well it's the same, you put your "good" faith on something and not on yourself as you like to say since few pages now...


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## grey boy 2

Here you go, take a look how a "religious fanatic" will harass you at your profile page just because i reported his abusive posts against members, imagine what "IT" will do you once he feel like "IT" lost an argument??
Take note with all those abusive posts he has been deleted, be aware brothers, i suggest you all to avoid "IT" at all cost

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## HannibalBarca

grey boy 2 said:


> Here you go, take a look how a "religious fanatic" will harass you at your profile page just because i reported his abusive posts against members, imagine what "IT" will do you once he feel like "IT" lost an argument??
> Take note with all those abusive posts he has been deleted, be aware brothers, i suggest you all to avoid "IT" at all cost



Well at least you are seeing it  Thank you.

You can always use you only argument... Insults... as always 
Ask them if they got harrassed too... lets laugh a bit


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## Jlaw

kankan326 said:


> No more sh1t talking. Can you give us a doable way to stop your Muslim brothers killing innocent people in the name of your God? If not please shut up when we use our way to settle it. You have no right to deny what we do cause doing something is always better than doing nothing.


He can't because he doesn't give a shit about his Muslim brethren unless it suit his agenda. Ask him why he doesn't sponsor those oppressed Muslim ?

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## HannibalBarca

Jlaw said:


> He can't because he doesn't give a shit about his Muslim brethren unless it suit his agenda. Ask him why he doesn't sponsor those oppressed Muslim ?


You have a mouth ( and 2 hands with fingers on it...) , you can ask... you know


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Well the world didn't waited for you to jump on the anti-muslim rethoric...
> And EVERY superpower in the world till this day got their teeth crushed, the moment they put their foot on any Muslims country... Every time they think it's over.. fe years later they are back in it... Russia said never agian after the Taliban humiliation..; now they are back in Syria. same for the US and EUrope... no more Iraq and bam again...
> 
> In the END it's been like that for more than 1400 years... and every time they ar eback... at least their son.. who already forgot their parent history and suffering on that field.
> 
> And now others want to try
> 
> Well it's the same, you put your "good" faith on something and not on yourself as you like to say since few pages now...



So solidary is not equal anti-Muslim, when you show solidarity to Muslim, then you're what anti-Non-Muslim? And I'm not interested on how you brag on defeat foreign power maybe we haven't go to an head on collision between China and some Muslim nation yet, it's just to soon to predict the verdict but our ancient foes either end up run away or end up been totally assimilate into 1.4 billions.

C'mon pray for money is nothing religion...maybe in your culture but not ours ...LMAO

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> So solidary is not equal anti-Muslim, when you show solidarity to Muslim, then you're what anti-Non-Muslim? And I'm not interested on how you brag on defeat foreign power maybe we have go to an head on collision between China and some Muslim nation, it's just to soon to predict the verdict but our ancient foes either end up run away or end up been totally assimilate into 1.4 billions.
> 
> C'mon pray for money is nothing religion...maybe in your culture but not ours ...LMAO



You don't assimilate religions, you assimilate cultures...

Yet you pray  Praying it's praying... you asking something TO SOMEONE.. in hope you get it. So you believe someone/thing can answer you wish. That's being religious...
ANyway. Pray well 

Well if Majority of chinese do as you... then your not an atheist country ...  (polytheist/ paganism)


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> You don't assimilate religions, you assimilate cultures...
> 
> Yet you pray  Praying it's praying... you asking something TO SOMEONE.. in hope you get it. So you believe someone/thing can answer you wish. That's being religious...
> ANyway. Pray well
> 
> Well if Majority of chinese do as you... then your not an atheist country ...  (polytheist/ paganism)



Religion or culture, we can assimilate both, once an Muslim friend tell me " I only wish China is a Muslim country then we have tremendous balance power on this world". I tell him " how about this, we Chinese convert all to Muslim but in exchange all Muslim have to convert to Chinese and use our language and culture"

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Religion or culture, we can assimilate both, once an Muslim friend tell me " I only wish China is a Muslim country then we have tremendous balance power on this world". I tell him " how about this, we Chinese convert all to Muslim but in exchange all Muslim have to convert to Chinese and use our language and culture"



Ofc China becoming muslim will be great.
But the convert thing, i'm lost. How a muslim can convert to Chinese?? is "chinese" a religion? as for Language and culture, it's not aproblem, you can be muslim with Chinese culture/language. it's already the case for millions of chinese muslim in China. and even around the muslim world.

ps: all chinese do not have the same language neither same culture  that's what make china interesting. to have a lot inside one


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## faithfulguy

HannibalBarca said:


> Ofc China becoming muslim will be great.
> But the convert thing, i'm lost. How a muslim can convert to Chinese?? is "chinese" a religion? as for Language and culture, it's not aproblem, you can be muslim with Chinese culture/language. it's already the case for millions of chinese muslim in China. and even around the muslim world.
> 
> ps: all chinese do not have the same language neither same culture  that's what make china interesting. to have a lot inside one



What he is saying is that all Muslims adopt Chinese language, use Chinese calendars and celebrate Chinese. In return, China can be a Muslim country.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Ofc China becoming muslim will be great.
> But the convert thing, i'm lost. How a muslim can convert to Chinese?? is "chinese" a religion? as for Language and culture, it's not aproblem, you can be muslim with Chinese culture/language. it's already the case for millions of chinese muslim in China. and even around the muslim world.
> 
> ps: all chinese do not have the same language neither same culture  that's what make china interesting. to have a lot inside one



You still don't get it, any Muslim have to renounce their national identity and adopted Chinese their new identities regardless if they're Arab, Tunisian, Turks, you name its..., if you see Star Trek movies, you know what I mean, we will absorb all their culture as our own as show on video below, we have 56 different brothers and sisters and we can accommodate more start from your if you're really a Tunesian.







and we will integrate all of them as this:

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## HannibalBarca

faithfulguy said:


> What he is saying is that all Muslims adopt Chinese language, use Chinese calendars and celebrate Chinese. In return, China can be a Muslim country.



Well why muslims should adopt it.. When the Chinese themselfs begun to go away from it... Less and Less use the Chinese calendar and celebrate Chinese. The world is becoming more and more look alike. 



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You still don't get it, any Muslim have to renounce their national identity and adopted Chinese their new identities regardless if they're Arab, Tunisian, Turks, you name its..., if you see Star Trek movies, you know what I mean, we will absorb all their culture as our own as show on video below, we have 56 different brothers and sisters and we can accommodate more start from your if you're really a Tunesian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and we will integrate all of them as this:



I will stay on the shifting bet of End of Century. Christian or Muslim bet 

Cya in 83 years 

TBH, Islam can be integrated in any culture around the globe. It could be hard to believe it, but Islam can blend everywhere at any given time. Since it's the only monotheist religion, where culture could be a part of it... The mongols adopted it and blended in it...  so if that possible , everything is...


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## faithfulguy

HannibalBarca said:


> Well why muslims should adopt it.. When the Chinese themselfs begun to go away from it... Less and Less use the Chinese calendar and celebrate Chinese. The world is becoming more and more look alike.
> 
> 
> 
> I will stay on the shifting bet of End of Century. Christian or Muslim bet
> 
> Cya in 83 years
> 
> TBH, Islam can be integrated in any culture around the globe. It could be hard to believe it, but Islam can blend everywhere at any given time. Since it's the only monotheist religion, where culture could be a part of it...



If you ask me,China is a little more likely to be Christian than Muslim. The reason is that modern Christianity do more preaching than Muslims. As far as how each religion is portraited. But who knows. It's likely that China can be more Buddhist as it has that root. 

The dominate religion of the future is the faith that convert the Chinese souls. The contenders are Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Represented by the West, Muslim world and India. Each has its own strength and weaknesses. But in my opinion. Christianity is a little more likely to win as it seeks to convert more than the other two. But it's anyone's game.

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## HannibalBarca

faithfulguy said:


> If you ask me,China is a little more likely to be Christian than Muslim. The reason is that modern Christianity do more preaching than Muslims. As far as how each religion is portraited. But who knows. It's likely that China can be more Buddhist as it has that root.
> 
> The dominate religion of the future is the faith that convert the Chinese souls. The contenders are Christianity, Islam and Buddhism. Represented by the West, Muslim world and India. Each has its own strength and weaknesses. But in my opinion. Christianity is a little more likely to win as it seeks to convert more than the other two. But it's anyone's game.



Geopolitics of tomorrow will play a big role in it too. Doing a lot of preaching helps, you right, but it's not everything. The balance of tomorow ties will play a greater role, I think.

And where thing goes as for today, it's like the shift will not be a East -West but Mostly a East-ME-AFrica and then West.

The problem with Christianity, it's that it's not strict, it use a lot of "inland" belief and blend it into christianity. see the SK mix of christianity or even the Japanese version of it. THere is nothing Christian anymore. Even the Roman Church speak about "sect" in SK and JAp and not about "church"


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Well why muslims should adopt it.. When the Chinese themselfs begun to go away from it... Less and Less use the Chinese calendar and celebrate Chinese. The world is becoming more and more look alike.
> 
> I will stay on the shifting bet of End of Century. Christian or Muslim bet
> 
> Cya in 83 years
> 
> TBH, Islam can be integrated in any culture around the globe. It could be hard to believe it, but Islam can blend everywhereat any given time.



Why? I think it's a fair deal, don't you guys want to see Muslim expansion, we Chinese want to see our nation expand "peacefully" too. both of our interest overlap perfectly.

West think that we're been gradually assimilated and most Chinese are westernized but we're in process to absorb their high tech culture such as science and management, we Chinese like to copy things but we always keep our way of living, we still eat with chopstick.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Why? I think it's a fair deal, don't you guys want to see Muslim expansion, we Chinese want to see our nation expand "peacefully" too. both of our interest overlap perfectly.
> 
> West think that we're been gradually assimilated and most Chinese are westernized but we're in process to absorb their high tech culture such as science and management, we Chinese like to copy things but we always keep our way of living, we still eat with chopstick.



Westernized mean nothing today. since we become one in tech and managment of thing. It's mostly Globalization than westernization.

As for chopstick, well even the High tech nation who got beyond any "WESTERN" country like Jap or SK are eating with chopstick too 

As for expension, Chinese culture is similar to the arab one. just ask and I will tell you if do the same or not. you will be suprised. tbh I think we have more in common btw us than you have with any asian country around you. ( ok that was big, so let's say, mostly of them.)

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Westernized mean nothing today. since we become one in tech and managment of thing. It's mostly Globalization than westernization.
> 
> As for chopstick, well even the High tech nation who got beyond any "WESTERN" country like Jap or SK are eating with chopstick too
> 
> As for expension, Chinese culture is similar to the arab one. just ask and I will tell you if do the same or not. you will be suprised. tbh I think we have more in common btw us than you have with any asian country around you. ( ok that was big, so let's say, mostly of them.)



Since Islam is from Arab root and we share some similar culture...there you're, we can have an interesting deal: you will add 1.4 billions Chinese people into Muslim world but we only earn 1.2 billion Muslim as Chinese, still a trade deficit for China.

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Since Islam is from Arab root and we share some similar culture...there you're, we can have an interesting deal: you will add 1.4 billions Chinese people into Muslim world but we only earn 1.2 billion Muslim as Chinese, still a trade deficit for China.



Wrong Muslim pop by pew as for 2010 it's 1.6 Billions. so as for 2017 it's mostly around 1.8, since in 2050, the less optimistic numbers will be 2.76Billions.
China pop 2050 around 1.5Bill

Therefore you need to give us 0.4 more  as for today

Convert fast or you gonna need to pay even more


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Wrong Muslim pop by pew as for 2010 it's 1.6 Billions. so as for 2017 it's mostly around 1.8, since in 2050, the less optimistic numbers will be 2.76Billions.
> China pop 2050 around 1.5Bill
> 
> Therefore you need to give us 0.4 more



yey  that is even better, we gonna have a trade surplus

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> yey  that is even better, we gonna have a trade surplus


See win-win  I think your prayer will be answered


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> See win-win  I think your prayer will be answered



If all Muslim nation will to adopt Chinese as their new identity, I will be the first to convert to Islam...no joke

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> If all Muslim nation will to adopt Chinese as their new identity, I will be the first to convert to Islam...no joke



The vid you showd right now, is from Central asia culture, the Kazak/Ouzbk side. (therefore muslims)  (it will be yughur for china)


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> The vid you showd right now, is from Central asia culture, the Kazak/Ouzbk side. (therefore muslims)



More specifically from Xinjiang, Uyghur dance

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## HannibalBarca

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> More specifically from Xinjiang, Uyghur dance



yep, they were one entity before the soviet. that's why we can't say it's "only" uyghur, since all of them share the same.


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## Falcon29

If we are looking strictly from logical/cultural POV, Chinese are right. They have to stop religious influence early on, because with Islam it is not separated from society. It makes up political, social and cultural fabric. Which is very differing from one envisioned by those who founded China. So they can't have it. So, yeah, they are basically going to restrict Islam or some more strict aspects of it, which is only seen in maybe one or two school of thoughts. It's also worrying if religious education is consuming children lives, not because of extremism but due to departure from usual criteria that is focused on. Which is science/economy/etc.... It's not only Chinese, but many others seeing this problem in the world, including some Muslim gov't them selves. Beard or Niqab isn't issue in Muslim nations, but the governments pretty much separate Islam from politics. 

Reason why Christianity or Judaism isn't targeted like Islam, is because they no longer have impact on culture, society, laws or social fabric. Only influence they have is 'identity' influence, in which white Christians/Jews, maybe Hispanics too, see each other as one 'people'. So if Christianity somehow overtook China, it would become sort of like America. It's really only used for political gain. But, identity is serious. Meaning many of that subset group of Christians identify with each other, especially when it comes to Muslim migration or spread of Islam in their nations, or even strengthening of Islam in the ME(which is historically important to them too). 

Islam, too, is used today as political gain by Muslim nations and groups. The reasons some Muslims can't see it is because the tense situation within Islam today and tense political situation in the region, so they really believe that world is teaming up on them, and that either Shia is the righteous group with Sunni's helping enemies of Muslims, or Sunni's the other way. Shia are more pragmatic, less religious, and more secular when it comes to lifestyle. I don't see their faith being major driver of their society, I feel like they have a will to live and enjoy the world. Sunni is more religious and have more faith, so they are more likely the ones to actually try implementing Islam as way of life. 

So the world is worried of Sunni Muslims. And Sunni Muslims are going through what other religions went through in past. Where pressure is put by society to put Islam behind and move on, just keep it personal thing. However, this is being played too early,and the political scenes in ME make it much more volatile. And you will people violently oppose this, those being Jihadist groups. But, in the future is looking more and more like it will involve mainstream Sunni Muslims if they can't see how the world is changing and how to react it. They do have a point, though, that there is indeed agenda to rid of religions influence. The debate is whether this is religiously motivated or is just due to world moving on with secular globalization. This debate is decided by individuals and it is what is causing rift. 

Now, what I don't get, why Muslims from ME for example, speak of this but will not look at the state in the ME which is horrifying and intense. Everyone is nervous, even stable nations. Because it's not just inter political in the region, it is also seen by some as religious struggle. So they don't know if this gets worse as the future goes on, what will happen. What will happen, is your children are going to be subjected to violence. It's going to be dangerous for Muslims in the future due to everything converging. 

I don't think it can be avoided. Because, several reasons, one being that Muslims focused on spreading Islam and think this is some kind of achievement if you increase # of your people. Rather than look within and solve crisis's within the community. Other being Arab governments realize they are a bit late, and now focusing on prevention and internal security. It's on the edge even for them. And then of course you have Western politics, where they feel they can't introduce secularism quickly enough and resorting to bad political moves to maintain interests in the meantime, which are not winning hearts of people. Then most important, it's interpretation of Islam itself. Many Muslims look to how their Prophet(pbuh) handled affairs in the past, and they don't know how he would today. So they resort to orthodox measures, which is not going to succeed, you will have issues with modernization. And this debate itself, relies on faith, because on one hand people do believe, so they assume orthodox measures is needed. On other hand, people have doubts but can't strike a balance or have no control over situation. 

So priorities need to change, if you want different future for next generation of people. All the world bears responsibility too, not just Muslims. Otherwise it's a nasty future for all people involved. Likely by 50 years.

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## TaiShang

grey boy 2 said:


> Bro, unfortunately "Mutual respect" can never be found in their "religious fanatic" dictionary
> Like my professor in my college taught us something interesting is that the term "Religious Caste System" which label and classify "Human with religion ONLY" similar to how the Indians "Caste System" work
> According to "Religious Fanatics Caste System" there are "NO nationalities", human being must be classify by religion only
> Example will be "Like if you're not a believer of their religion, you're expendable and considered "NON Human and EVIL" by default
> To all my Chinese bros ans sister, please don't waste your time reasoning with those religious fanatics, because they've already "made up their mind" you're wrong and evil and they're the always "Right and Holy" due to their "Religion Superiority" over us the so-called "Non believers" before your engagement with them even started.



Engaging them is indeed fruitless. Religious fanatics who disrespect national sovereignty of others cannot be reasoned with. As long as they are harmless and simply killing each others based on sects, they are left alone, it is a form of population engineering. If they become violent against us, then , we strike hard and terminate them. 

For us, religion is not a public good. It is private. And we have a good historical record to transform foreign religion's into cultural subjects. In Taiwan, when one becomes Christian, he just adds another ancient god, this time not a direct ancestor. 

Our innate secularism, practical mind, and absence of fatalism prevented the emergence of man-made religions, unlike in the Middle East, which generated several other-worldly fatalist unscientific teachings. 

Their mindset clearly reflects their conditions. 

What we can do is to limit ideological communication with them at the minimum, do practical business, keep security very tight at home, promote national culture, and deal with violent religious teachings very harshly. 

This is what we are doing and it generates strong sentiment. Because we are hitting them where it hurts more. This is like a body responding violently when you start to take out the cancerous cells. 

If you directly kill them, they will feel good, repopulate more, and use death as a negative incentive. But when when you touch their symbols of interaction and public display, they will not enjoy that negative incentive. 

This is why they hate China so much, which is a good thing. China bans public displays of religiosity, gives them secular education, including evolution, provides national entertainment, destroys illegal schools, and eradicates poverty.

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## Götterdämmerung

Religion is like a penis. 

It's fine to have one and it's fine to be proud of it, but please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around... and PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.

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## HannibalBarca

Falcon29 said:


> If we are looking strictly from logical/cultural POV, Chinese are right. They have to stop religious influence early on, because with Islam it is not separated from society. It makes up political, social and cultural fabric. Which is very differing from one envisioned by those who founded China. So they can't have it. So, yeah, they are basically going to restrict Islam or some more strict aspects of it, which is only seen in maybe one or two school of thoughts. It's also worrying if religious education is consuming children lives, not because of extremism but due to departure from usual criteria that is focused on. Which is science/economy/etc.... It's not only Chinese, but many others seeing this problem in the world, including some Muslim gov't them selves. Beard or Niqab isn't issue in Muslim nations, but the governments pretty much separate Islam from politics.
> 
> Reason why Christianity or Judaism isn't targeted like Islam, is because they no longer have impact on culture, society, laws or social fabric. Only influence they have is 'identity' influence, in which white Christians/Jews, maybe Hispanics too, see each other as one 'people'. So if Christianity somehow overtook China, it would become sort of like America. It's really only used for political gain. But, identity is serious. Meaning many of that subset group of Christians identify with each other, especially when it comes to Muslim migration or spread of Islam in their nations, or even strengthening of Islam in the ME(which is historically important to them too).
> 
> Islam, too, is used today as political gain by Muslim nations and groups. The reasons some Muslims can't see it is because the tense situation within Islam today and tense political situation in the region, so they really believe that world is teaming up on them, and that either Shia is the righteous group with Sunni's helping enemies of Muslims, or Sunni's the other way. Shia are more pragmatic, less religious, and more secular when it comes to lifestyle. I don't see their faith being major driver of their society, I feel like they have a will to live and enjoy the world. Sunni is more religious and have more faith, so they are more likely the ones to actually try implementing Islam as way of life.
> 
> So the world is worried of Sunni Muslims. And Sunni Muslims are going through what other religions went through in past. Where pressure is put by society to put Islam behind and move on, just keep it personal thing. However, this is being played too early,and the political scenes in ME make it much more volatile. And you will people violently oppose this, those being Jihadist groups. But, in the future is looking more and more like it will involve mainstream Sunni Muslims if they can't see how the world is changing and how to react it. They do have a point, though, that there is indeed agenda to rid of religions influence. The debate is whether this is religiously motivated or is just due to world moving on with secular globalization. This debate is decided by individuals and it is what is causing rift.
> 
> Now, what I don't get, why Muslims from ME for example, speak of this but will not look at the state in the ME which is horrifying and intense. Everyone is nervous, even stable nations. Because it's not just inter political in the region, it is also seen by some as religious struggle. So they don't know if this gets worse as the future goes on, what will happen. What will happen, is your children are going to be subjected to violence. It's going to be dangerous for Muslims in the future due to everything converging.
> 
> I don't think it can be avoided. Because, several reasons, one being that Muslims focused on spreading Islam and think this is some kind of achievement if you increase # of your people. Rather than look within and solve crisis's within the community. Other being Arab governments realize they are a bit late, and now focusing on prevention and internal security. It's on the edge even for them. And then of course you have Western politics, where they feel they can't introduce secularism quickly enough and resorting to bad political moves to maintain interests in the meantime, which are not winning hearts of people. Then most important, it's interpretation of Islam itself. Many Muslims look to how their Prophet(pbuh) handled affairs in the past, and they don't know how he would today. So they resort to orthodox measures, which is not going to succeed, you will have issues with modernization. And this debate itself, relies on faith, because on one hand people do believe, so they assume orthodox measures is needed. On other hand, people have doubts but can't strike a balance or have no control over situation.
> 
> So priorities need to change, if you want different future for next generation of people. All the world bears responsibility too, not just Muslims. Otherwise it's a nasty future for all people involved. Likely by 50 years.



Go back home. Best regards. AMong all Muslim country around the world only few use Islam and it's charia law as part of a political view... the Gulfs+Iran... ( and in some degree a little Turkey with AKP) So bf spreading BS on a subject you can't even begin to understand, try to use your tongue correctly.

Christianity and Judaism no involved in politics DAFUQ you're smoking... what about the Extremist Jews who are in power today in Israel, that even Laws can't abide for them or the coming back of Yave Law... in the political battle field... And for Christianity you've got the orthodox in Russia who are politized... How do you think Putin get all his strenght from? he hates the oligarchs ... the clergy is one of his stronger weapon today.
Every Religion has a political branch, whoever they are.

Last word, it's not Islam who got a problem, but few Khawarji (fanatics) who are not muslims but use that word to get those poor/ simple minded ppl to join. As for China, she has the right to prevent any attack or extremist in her country, but the only problem it's the type of prevention that his wrong, since it's bc of that, you get those terro breeding cancer rise... Preventing a muslim to wear a veil , to stop Ramadan and allow only few ppl by age to go to salat ( prayer) as a prevention against extremist, then it's wrong. Period

Anyway Have fun
Best regards.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

HannibalBarca said:


> Go back home. Best regards. AMong all Muslim country around the world only few use Islam and it's charia law as part of a political view... the Gulfs+Iran... ( and in some degree a little Turkey with AKP) So bf spreading BS on a subject you can't even begin to understand, try to use your tongue correctly.
> 
> Christianity and Judaism no involved in politics DAFUQ you're smoking... what about the Extremist Jews who are in power today in Israel, that even Laws can't abide for them or the coming back of Yave Law... in the political battle field... And for Christianity you've got the orthodox in Russia who are politized... How do you think Putin get all his strenght from? he hates the oligarchs ... the clergy is one of his stronger weapon today.
> Every Religion has a political branch, whoever they are.
> 
> Last word, it's not Islam who got a problem, but few Khawarji (fanatics) who are not muslims but use that word to get those poor/ simple minded ppl to join. As for China, she has the right to prevent any attack or extremist in her country, but the only problem it's the type of prevention that his wrong, since it's bc of that, you get those terro breeding cancer rise... Preventing a muslim to wear a veil , to stop Ramadan and allow only few ppl by age to go to salat ( prayer) as a prevention against extremist, then it's wrong. Period
> 
> Anyway Have fun
> Best regards.



I don't want go over with you over the argument about the preventive measure that China is taking, you entitle to have your opinion, but keep repeating the same thing over will not make you "better" right.

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## TaiShang

Banning religious symbolism publicly, terminating and exterminating violent religiosity, exposing regions secular development and raising kids under secular national education is the only long term feasible solution. 

Otherwise, tolerance will spread the cancer. Extreme religious ideologies use peace theory as a means, not as an end. Because their end goal is to win the great prizes in the after life. For that, they can burn down this world. 

Spirituality is a mild personal form of religion and can be tolerated. In the end, some individuals need more psychological assurances of a deep and almost scientific belief in the after world in their own domain. 

To make this distinction and regulate one and keep the other under control is the job the state.

China is doing a very basic of the state's responsibility toward its citizens.

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## Mo12

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-39460538

China has introduced new restrictions in the far western region of Xinjiang in what it describes as a campaign against Islamist extremism.

The measures include prohibiting "abnormally" long beards, the wearing of veils in public places and refusing to watch state television.

Xinjiang is the homeland of the Uighurs, a traditionally Muslim group who say they face discrimination.

Recent years have seen bloody clashes in the region.

The Chinese government blames the violence on Islamist militants and separatists.

But rights groups say the unrest is more a reaction to repressive policies, and argue that the new measures may end up pushing some Uighurs into extremism.


Beijing's hammer to crack Xinjiang nut
China confiscates passports of Xinjiang people
Has China's crackdown on 'terrorism' worked?






Jump media player
Media player help

Out of media player. Press enter to return or tab to continue.

Media captionBeards are banned in Xinjiang, except for the elderly
Though similar restrictions have already been in place in Xinjiang, they become legally sanctioned as of this weekend. Reuters news agency reports that the new laws also ban:


Not allowing children to attend government schools
Not abiding by family planning policies
Deliberately damaging legal documents
Marrying using only religious procedures
The rules also state that workers in public spaces, such as stations and airports, are now required to "dissuade" those who fully cover their bodies, including veiling their faces, from entering, and to report them to the police.





The restrictions were approved by Xinjiang lawmakers and published on the region's official news website.

Chinese authorities had previously imposed other measures, including restrictions on granting passports to Uighurs.

*Uighurs and Xinjiang*



Image copyrightAFP

Uighurs are ethnically Turkic Muslims
They make up about 45% of Xinjiang's population; 40% are Han Chinese
China re-established control in 1949 after crushing the short-lived state of East Turkestan
Since then, there has been large-scale immigration of Han Chinese
Uighurs fear that their traditional culture will be eroded
Why is there tension between China and the Uighurs?


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## Water Car Engineer

No fucks will be given by a certain iron brother community, yet they will flood other countries topics regarding Islamophobia.

It's the true test, are you more nationalist? Goes to show, people in defence forum are a very small group of people in each country.

As far as this content, I have no problem with the concept of their country, their rules. China doesn't have to be PC about nothing, they know too well cockroaches use freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc, etc, etc. to their advantage in a malicious way. But restricting Ramadan, etc. is a bit extreme.

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## Mo12

Water Car Engineer said:


> No fucks will be given by a certain iron brother community, yet they will flood other countries topics regarding Islamophobia.
> 
> It's the true test, are you more nationalist? Goes to show, people in defence forum are a very small group of people in each country.



Tbh it is only Turkey who standing up for Muslim brothers in China.

Pakistan are more busy using China as a leverage against India and accepting China investment over caring for China treatment of Muslims.

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## Water Car Engineer

Mo12 said:


> Tbh it is only Turkey who standing up for Muslim brothers in China.
> 
> Pakistan are more busy using China as a leverage against India and accepting China investment over caring for China treatment of Muslims.




Turkish nationalist on the internet also do so because that region is apart of the, 'Turkic', family.


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## Talwar e Pakistan

Mo12 said:


> The measures include prohibiting "abnormally" long beards, the wearing of veils in public places and refusing to watch state television.


None of that really contradicts Muslim practices.

In Islam, a Muslim's beard should only be the length of your first. Wearing of veils is also something that was culturally borrowed many hundreds years after. Nothing in any of our scriptures talk about wearing veils, it is only about covering your hair - not face. 

The Quran clearly says “Say: O people of the Book, do not be excessive in your religion.’” [4:171]

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## Matirpola

Mo12 said:


> Tbh it is only Turkey who standing up for Muslim brothers in China.



Turkey itself bans headscarves. LoL.

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## PakistaniNawab

Crixus said:


> Replace China with India and see the flood of comments   . Its their country their rules . If India do some thing for cow you can find thousands commenst here and In China they shoot a person who kills a Panda( an animal).


India has 180- 200 million muslims and china barely has 30 million.

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## Offshore

Water Car Engineer said:


> No fucks will be given by a certain iron brother community, yet they will flood other countries topics regarding Islamophobia.
> 
> It's the true test, are you more nationalist? Goes to show, people in defence forum are a very small group of people in each country.
> 
> As far as this content, I have no problem with the concept of their country, their rules. China doesn't have to be PC about nothing, they know too well cockroaches use freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc, etc, etc. to their advantage in a malicious way. But restricting Ramadan, etc. is a bit extreme.



Restrictions on Ramadan only on government officials and student

And stop saying crap, better mind your own country!
In China people won't get killed eating a Beff or rape on day light!

Look at your RSS fanatic going rampage! Without control of government , they create country inside country and no law and order being taken.

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## HannibalBarca

Offshore said:


> Restrictions on Ramadan only on government officials and student
> 
> And stop saying crap, better mind your own country!
> In China people won't get killed eating a Beff or rape on day light!
> 
> Look at your RSS fanatic going rampage! Without control of government , they create country inside country and no law and order being taken.



Passying By...

It's still restriction. And yes whoever one has a right to speak ... that's Free SPeech. A concept hard to believe for some, but still it's their right.

China is meddling into foreign policy, when it's touching Chinese Descendent ( who are not Chinese nationals )... Like the Malaysian/ BIrmanian and Indo case and more recently the Chinese case in France.

Have Fun

Ps: restricting beard or veil is nothing, since it's not the core of the religion practice, but Ramadan is, it's one the 5 pillar of islam... So yes it's important and China policy toward that is stupid and will only bring problems..


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## Offshore

HannibalBarca said:


> Passying By...
> 
> It's still restriction. And yes whoever one has a right to speak ... that's Free SPeech. A concept hard to believe for some, but still it's their right.
> 
> China is meddling into foreign policy, when it's touching Chinese Descendent ( who are not Chinese nationals )... Like the Malaysian/ BIrmanian and Indo case and more recently the Chinese case in France.
> 
> Have Fun
> 
> Ps: restricting beard or veil is nothing, since it's not the core of the religion practice, but Ramadan is, it's one the 5 pillar of islam... So yes it's important and China policy toward that is stupid and will only bring problems..



Our ambassador in Malaysia need to take action because we know the risk if native Malaysian going rampage, it also will hurt Chinese tourist and investment in Malaysia , we learn from Indonesia Chinese mascare 98 . After all this people is the same root! 
Primitive!

As for France case , it's Chinese citizen got killed , our government have right to know the truth . 

And for Ramadan , We don't care whether it's 5 pillar, 6 pillar or million pillar.. it's doesn't matter.
Once you are government official you are atheis and sworn loyalty for country and serve our country!
While for Student , they need to focus on study! Gaokao is no joke and it's beyond your brain to compromise!

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## Roybot

*Xinjiang official demoted for timidity in fighting religious extremism*

*A Party official in Northwest China's *Xinjiang* Uyghur Autonomous Region was demoted for not daring to smoke in front of religious people, a sign of his timidity in fighting against religious extremism. *

*Jelil Matniyaz, Party chief of a village in Hotan, Xinjiang was demoted from "senior staff member" to "staff member" on March 25 for his "infirm political stands… and for being afraid to smoke in front of religious figures," read a notice posted on the Hotan Daily's WeChat account on Saturday*.

The Saturday announcement comes as the region intensifies efforts to curb religious extremism.

*"Smoking is a personal choice, and religious and ordinary people should respect each other, but his behavior of 'not daring' to smoke conforms with extreme religious thought in Xinjiang," *said a Hotan official who requested anonymity.

"As a Party chief, he should lead the fight against extreme religious thought, otherwise, he would fail to confront the threat of extreme regional forces," the official said.

According to local religion customs, smoking is not allowed in front of older people or among religious people, Turgunjun Tursun, a professor with the Zhejiang Normal University, told the Global Times on Monday.

However, some religious people force ordinary citizens also to comply with the requirements, a senior official who had been working in Xinjiang for years, told the Global Times on condition of anonymity.

In a sense, whether officials "dare to" smoke in front of religious people reflects their commitment to secularization, the anonymous official said.

The official's demotion is an isolated case, Tursun said, adding that the local government should balance de-extremist behavior and local customs in the crackdown on extremism.

Xinjiang issued a regional anti-extremism regulation in March which bans supporting extremism, and curtailing religious freedom and activities.

The anti-extremism campaign also requires officials to inform local residents about some customs that are used by religious extremists, said Tursun.

Other 96 Hotan officials were also named and shamed in the notice for violating disciplinary regulations, including lax work styles, dereliction of duty, and bribery.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1041792.shtml


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## Dragon4

Ohh so the previous thread was locked down, which had its source in DAWN.
Why?
Anyways, had the incident occurred in India, I can bet the thread would have gone to not less than 40 pages.

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## Roybot

https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/wor...d-for-declining-to-smoke-in-front-of-muslims/

*Chinese official demoted for declining to smoke in front of Muslims*

*BEIJING: In an unusual move, China has demoted an official in heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang for declining to smoke in front of local religious leaders.*

*Jelil Matniyaz, the ruling Communist party chief of a village in Hotan was demoted on March 25 for taking “infirm political stands…and for being afraid to smoke in front of religious figures,” *a notice posted on the Hotan Daily’s social media WeChat account said.

“Smoking is a personal choice, and religious and ordinary people should respect each other, but his behaviour of ‘not daring’ to smoke conforms with extreme religious thought in Xinjiang,” the Global Times quoted a Hotan official as saying.

“As a party chief, he should lead the fight against extreme religious thought, otherwise, he would fail to confront the threat of extreme regional forces,” the official added.

*“According to local religion customs, smoking is not allowed in front of older or religious people,” Turgunjun Tursun, The Economic Times quoted a professor with the Zhejiang Normal University as saying.*

*Earlier, China has announced that it is implementing new measures including a ban on ‘abnormal’ beards in its heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang.*

*Veils have also been banned in public places along with refusing to watch or listen to state media, as part of the new ‘Regulations on Extremisation of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.’*



Dragon4 said:


> Ohh so the previous thread was locked down, which had its source in DAWN.
> Why?
> Anyways, had the incident occurred in India, I can bet the thread would have gone to not less than 40 pages.



China is probably the only country in the world which is proactively encouraging people to smoke, by penalizing those who "dare not to smoke", for whatever reason it may be. Baffling!

@Chinese-Dragon @Sinopakfriend @Areesh @Levina @ranjeet


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## Dragon4

Roybot said:


> https://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/wor...d-for-declining-to-smoke-in-front-of-muslims/
> 
> *Chinese official demoted for declining to smoke in front of Muslims*
> 
> *BEIJING: In an unusual move, China has demoted an official in heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang for declining to smoke in front of local religious leaders.*
> 
> *Jelil Matniyaz, the ruling Communist party chief of a village in Hotan was demoted on March 25 for taking “infirm political stands…and for being afraid to smoke in front of religious figures,” *a notice posted on the Hotan Daily’s social media WeChat account said.
> 
> “Smoking is a personal choice, and religious and ordinary people should respect each other, but his behaviour of ‘not daring’ to smoke conforms with extreme religious thought in Xinjiang,” the Global Times quoted a Hotan official as saying.
> 
> “As a party chief, he should lead the fight against extreme religious thought, otherwise, he would fail to confront the threat of extreme regional forces,” the official added.
> 
> *“According to local religion customs, smoking is not allowed in front of older or religious people,” Turgunjun Tursun, The Economic Times quoted a professor with the Zhejiang Normal University as saying.*
> 
> *Earlier, China has announced that it is implementing new measures including a ban on ‘abnormal’ beards in its heavily Muslim region of Xinjiang.*
> 
> *Veils have also been banned in public places along with refusing to watch or listen to state media, as part of the new ‘Regulations on Extremisation of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.’*
> 
> 
> 
> China is probably the only country in the world which is proactively encouraging people to smoke, by penalizing those who "dare not to smoke", for whatever reason it may be. Baffling!


Its because Chinese are actually very progressive by nature; ban on growing beards, ban on wearing headscarves, ban on fasting during Ramadan and now smoking in front of Muslims are a sign of progress. ^____^


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## 武成王

A little bit funny when I read the news in Chinese media. CCP is sensitive to all religions esp.
restrict for party members, all CCP members are forbidden to believe any religion, only communism allowed (at least in doctrines). If a party member or official DARE NOT to 'smoke'
before a Mullah, or a priest, he is probably more or less considered to be submissive to religion or intend to 'surrender' to religion. The funny part of this narrative is 'smoking', this word can be replaced with any other action which could potentially collide with other people. First of all, smoking before other people who don't smoke is impolite, should be corrected. Second, China don't encourage smoking. This just indicate SOME officials are very CAUTIOUS when they interact with Mullah, this attitude is considered a 'surrender' or 'easy to be controlled', it's not saying "You SHOULD smoke before Mullah". Smoking is bad thing after all. This also reflect the worrying quality of officials in grass-roots unit.

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## Roybot

hackerdelight said:


> A little bit funny when I read the news in Chinese media. CCP is sensitive to all religions esp.
> restrict for party members, all CCP members are forbidden to believe any religion, only communism allowed (at least in doctrines). If a party member or official DARE NOT to 'smoke'
> before a Mullah, or a priest, he is probably more or less considered to be submissive to religion or intend to 'surrender' to religion. The funny part of this narrative is 'smoking', this word can be replaced with any other action which could potentially collide with other people. First of all, smoking before other people who don't smoke is impolite, should be corrected. Second, China don't encourage smoking. This just indicate SOME officials are very CAUTIOUS when they interact with Mullah, this attitude is considered a 'surrender' or 'easy to be controlled', it's not saying "You SHOULD smoke before Mullah". Smoking is bad thing after all. This also reflect the worrying quality of officials in grass-roots unit.



So you are saying no practicing Muslim can be part of the Chinese government?

All that is fine, but demoting someone for that?

And if smoking is considered against the religious beliefs of the local muslims, then why penalize someone who wants to respect the local cultures. Every other country will teach you to respect the local culture. How does not smoking in front of "Mullahs" translates to surrender is beyond me.

@waz @WAJsal @Zarvan @naveedullahkhankhattak

What do you guys make of this?


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## Zarvan

Roybot said:


> So you are saying no practicing Muslim can be part of the Chinese government?
> 
> All that is fine, but demoting someone for that?
> 
> And if smoking is considered against the religious beliefs of the local muslims, then why penalize someone who wants to respect the local cultures. Every other country will teach you to respect the local culture. How does not smoking in front of "Mullahs" translates to surrender is beyond me.
> 
> @waz @WAJsal @Zarvan @naveedullahkhankhattak
> 
> What do you guys make of this?


If these news are true China is on path of destruction


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## Roybot

Zarvan said:


> If these news are true China is on path of destruction



It was published in government run Chinese newspaper, so its very much true.

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## waz

Roybot said:


> So you are saying no practicing Muslim can be part of the Chinese government?
> 
> All that is fine, but demoting someone for that?
> 
> And if smoking is considered against the religious beliefs of the local muslims, then why penalize someone who wants to respect the local cultures. Every other country will teach you to respect the local culture. How does not smoking in front of "Mullahs" translates to surrender is beyond me.
> 
> @waz @WAJsal @Zarvan @naveedullahkhankhattak
> 
> What do you guys make of this?



I don't really understand what he is trying to say.
As for the article, I find it confusing. Many Muslims smoke, including Imams. Some consider it to be fine, others haram. There is no universal ruling on smoking.

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## Roybot

waz said:


> I don't really understand what he is trying to say.
> As for the article, I find it confusing. Many Muslims smoke, including Imams. Some consider it to be fine, others haram. There is no universal ruling on smoking.



It's a local Uyghur custom, to not smoke in front of Imams and elders out of respect. And the Uyghur official was demoted for simply not wanting to smoke in front of the "religious figures"


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## waz

Roybot said:


> It's a local Uyghur custom, to not smoke in front of Imams and elders out of respect. And the Uyghur official was demoted for simply not wanting to smoke in front of the "religious figures"



Wait what? Uyghurs have smoked in front of their elders on the Haj pilgrimage when I went.

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## HannibalBarca

Zarvan said:


> If these news are true China is on path of destruction



Well that's light tbh... Muslim Student+ Muslim officials are not allowed to do Ramadan since 2-3 years now... Not even speaking about the prayer limit Age... ( a lot of mosque do not allow youngters to pray, something like not iunder 30 or 35...) . THe beard thing too... etc...
That's the ideology of Communism... Religion is the main enemy... bc it can hold power upon them... and it's mostly Uyghur targeted...

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## T-123456

It has nothing to do with religion,it is a show of respect for the elders not to smoke or drink(alcohol) in their presence.
I dont smoke or drink(alcohol) with my father,uncles or respected elderly people.
Doesnt the Chinese government know the culture of its own people?
@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 ?


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## HannibalBarca

T-123456 said:


> It has nothing to do with religion,it is a show of respect for the elders not to smoke in their presence.
> I dont smoke with my father or uncles.
> Doesnt the Chinese government know the culture of its own people?
> @Chinese-Dragon ?



Like they care... lol...

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## waz

Robinhood Pandey said:


> I guess @Roybot is indirectly pointing towards the fact that if similar things happen in India . .the Alleged " Thekedars of Islam " from Pakistan would have taken the entire forum down with threads after threads telling us evil baniyas . .how bad we are.
> 
> but when it happens in China . . . it becomes all kosher. . . .from fake news to their country their rules kind of arguments are forwarded.
> 
> why such hypocrisy?



I tell my kin to stop posting about India. India's Muslims made their choice back in 48. It should be a case of wishing them the best and leaving it at that. 
As for China, yes they are jittery when it comes to the Uyghurs, and they have put in measures which can be harsh and seem to stem from knee jerk reactions. But at the same time these measures are not imposed upon the Hui Muslims, who are China's other Muslim minority, but one which shares close racial and cultural ties with them. 
This is more to do with a nationalistic and cultural clash, which does get muddled with faith as the Uyghurs are majority Muslim. 
I saw an undercover Sky News camera team visiting the region and they interviewed the Uyghurs. Now what I found interesting was that many of them were supportive of the heavy police presence, and blamed what was going on trouble makers. There were also grievances aired, but the overwhelming feeling seemed to be one of that they just wish to get on with their lives.

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## nang2

The dude is a communist and punished by his own party.

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## 武成王

*How this event occurred is unknown. *My guess is, that official (a party member) is submissive to an Imam, he may obey whatever the Imam tell him, this is not what government can tolerate. smoking is just a phenomenon which demonstrate this point. it's also possible that another official compete power with him, and report this 'bad event' to their supervisor, so that poor man is punished by this excuse. this make sense since how the government KNOW the smoking event? There must be somebody along with him. I might guess wrong though.

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## Jf Thunder

Zarvan said:


> If these news are true China is on path of destruction


no, not really


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## Gujarat

I dont support this actions but i am glad that government of Gujarat also took similar steps. Such as banning of Azan.

Mosques here used to Blast prayers via loid speakers 24/7, even in hindu dominated Areas... Thank god government banned it after 2002.

But why he was dominated for not smoking in front of ReligooReligious leaders ? Was it out of respect?

Even i Smoke 2 3 sticks a day and i can even smome in front of Temple or Masjid if i have to. But i dont because i think i should not disrespect religious folks.

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## Zarvan

Jf Thunder said:


> no, not really


Yes they are this kind of actions will only help groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda. They are building up a volcano which would blast one day and burn all of them.

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## HannibalBarca

Zarvan said:


> Yes they are this kind of actions will only help groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda. They are building up a volcano which would blast one day and burn all of them.



That's the proble with HUmans... they always think that what happen next door, WILL not happen to them... but in the ENd they are still Humans and behave like any...

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## Jf Thunder

Zarvan said:


> Yes they are this kind of actions will only help groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda. They are building up a volcano which would blast one day and burn all of them.


they will and must defend their culture from Mullahs and extremists
Pakistan tried to tolerate it, and look what happened
better to nip the evil in the bud

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## 武成王

HannibalBarca said:


> That's the proble with HUmans... they always think that what happen next door, WILL not happen to them... but in the ENd they are still Humans and behave like any...



I'm not surprised at what you said at all. Look at your country's contribution:







Tunisia is the champion of supporting ISIS.

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## Zarvan

Jf Thunder said:


> they will and must defend their culture from Mullahs and extremists
> Pakistan tried to tolerate it, and look what happened
> better to nip the evil in the bud


It's not Mullah things they are banning are orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW if they have problem than stop hypocrisy and declare Islam as enemy. Stop taking the cloak of Mullah to abuse Islam show guts and direct talk about Islam. Beard and Niqab are order of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW not Mullahs

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## faithfulguy

Mo12 said:


> Its a known fact China discriminates heavily against muslims in Xinjiang, thats why Turkey are heavily supporting them.
> 
> Pakistan cant do the same because they are heavily reliant on China investment.
> 
> Its the same reason why no one can order China on the SCS and India on Kashmir, because of the 2 nations growing influences.



China is apprehensive about Uigers, not Muslims in general. So it's mostly a separatism issue rather than a religious issue. As for this particular case, whoever demoted this guy is overtly strict. I don't be surprised if there is another backstory behind the actual story. My bet is on some other personal issues and the fact that he smoked was an excuse.

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## Zarvan

hackerdelight said:


> I'm not surprised at what you said at all. Look at your country's contribution:
> 
> View attachment 390132
> 
> 
> Tunisia is the champion of supporting ISIS.


And the actions you are doing will make sure that ISIS doesn't from any where because you would have ISIS from within

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## HannibalBarca

Zarvan said:


> And the actions you are doing will make sure that ISIS doesn't from any where because you would have ISIS from within



And by dozens of thousands... not few ones...

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## 武成王

Mao did make mistakes, big mistakes, but millions death were caused by him is simply ridiculous and western propaganda. China admit both his contributions and mistakes.


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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> Mao did make mistakes, big mistakes, but millions death were caused by him is simply ridiculous and western propaganda. China admit both his contributions and mistakes.


lol even you own country admits the millions death, who died by stravation and work... lol...
Not even speaking about the one child policy who killed Dozens and dozens of thousands girls... bc they wanted a man... that's just the tip of the iceberg sir... only the tip


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## egodoc222

It's done by Chinese, so it must be right!
I don't understand...what's the fuss is about!


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## 武成王

Million death is true, there was famine, but blame ONLY Mao for the mistakes is also ridiculous. Again, I admit the mistakes, it's old problem, fixed. Now can you elaborate here why Tunisia is the championship ?

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## egodoc222

Zarvan said:


> Yes they are this kind of actions will only help groups like ISIS and Al Qaeda. They are building up a volcano which would blast one day and burn all of them.


They are new to this...they'll learn sooner or later.

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## Zarvan

egodoc222 said:


> They are new to this...they'll learn sooner or later.


I don't know why countries can't get Egypt banned Muslim Brotherhood and now most of there guys are pissed and joining ISIS. A party who always did political struggle Egypt just handed them to ISIS on plate and now facing the crap. Algeria went through same France and Europe facing same but no country bothers to learn.

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## Levina

Whatever floats the communist boat!

If a country faces religious extremism then I don't see a reason why it should not be curbed.
If temporary culling citizen freedom is for a higher purpose then why not?
I support the Chinese government's action.
As far as official being demoted for not smoking, is concerned it reminds me of Marx's words "communism begins where atheism begins".
The guy has been demoted for not sticking to what his party expected of him.
I have observed something similar in Kerala, which is one of the two strongholds of communists in India.

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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> Million death is true, there was famine, but blame ONLY Mao for the mistakes is also ridiculous. Again, I admit the mistakes, it's old problem, fixed. Now can you elaborate here why Tunisia is the championship ?



Mao was the head of state, the one with ALL power... he didn't care about his own ppl, that what a dictator is...

As for TN terro export, it's simple, we were under a stupid Dictator who blocked any knowledge on religion and therefore when he left those young stupid f*ck with basic crap knowledge about their religion tho' they were doing something good by joining a rat terro orgnization... 
Simple 

You can't push a blind to see... 
Today it's different in TN, those TErro are the swear enemies of any of us... not only us but any knowledgeable muslims around the world. 

FYI: ISIS and co are called Khawarji, meaning the Dog of Hell, since the beginning of Islam, our prophet asked us to fight them till the END, no mercy. Those guys will be seen as being TRUE devoted Muslims, but when you speak with them, they will stink Arrogance and madness... at that moment you knwo you found one. In our religion you can't say to a Muslim that he's not one anymore, it's forbidden, But for them, they are using it as they wish...


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## waz

faithfulguy said:


> China is apprehensive about Uigers, not Muslims in general. So it's mostly a separatism issue rather than a religious issue. As for this particular case, whoever demoted this guy is overtly strict. I don't be surprised if there is another backstory behind the actual story. My bet is on some other personal issues and the fact that he smoked was an excuse.



Comrade, until people actually meet the two people i.e. Uighurs and Hui, they will never understand the dynamics and elements involved in this dispute.

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## Jf Thunder

Zarvan said:


> It's not Mullah things they are banning are orders of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW if they have problem than stop hypocrisy and declare Islam as enemy. Stop taking the cloak of Mullah to abuse Islam show guts and direct talk about Islam. Beard and Niqab are order of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW not Mullahs


Beard is a sunnah
and niqaab is a creation of Mullahs
and if you are so concerned, why not go for Jihad, and get killed.

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## faithfulguy

waz said:


> Comrade, until people actually meet the two people i.e. Uighurs and Hui, they will never understand the dynamics and elements involved in this dispute.



I'm not communist. But besides that, I agree with you.

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## 武成王

HannibalBarca said:


> Mao was the head of state, the one with ALL power... he didn't care about his own ppl, that what a dictator is...
> 
> As for TN terro export, it's simple, we were under a stupid Dictator who blocked any knowledge on religion and therefore when he left those young stupid f*ck with basic crap knowledge about their religion tho' they were doing something good by joining a rat terro orgnization...
> Simple
> 
> You can't push a blind to see...
> Today it's different in TN, those TErro are the swear enemies of any of us... not only us but any knowledgeable muslims around the world.
> 
> FYI: ISIS and co are called Khawarji, meaning the Dog of Hell, since the beginning of Islam, our prophet asked us to fight them till the END, no mercy. Those guys will be seen as being TRUE devoted Muslims, but when you speak with them, they will stink Arrogance and madness... at that moment you knwo you found one. In our religion you can't say to a Muslim that he's not one anymore, it's forbidden, But for them, they are using it as they wish...



The problem of famine was primarily caused by bad whether, and dishonest low rank officials. The top level leaders did not completely know the truth because the low rank officials worried about punishment.

For Tunisia's issue. I'm not convinced by your words. I found the explanation from a professor of Manouba University is more persuasive. "Since the start of the Arabia spring movement, Tunisia has experienced a wave of raging extremism:* from 2011 to 2014, radical missionaries were free to speak and spread their extremist ideas.* In addition, at the beginning of 2011,* thousands of political prisoners were pardoned, they have a large number of Islamic militants,* they are in the following 2 years in Tunisia and the surrounding countries in the war building the terrorist network."

*Tunisia never ban knowledge of Islam, it's impossible. * The problem is not Islam, it's extremist ideas.

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## faithfulguy

Jf Thunder said:


> Beard is a sunnah
> and niqaab is a creation of Mullahs
> and if you are so concerned, why not go for Jihad, and get killed.



so what is the exact difference between views from a Mullah vs from Muhammad?

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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> The problem of famine was primarily caused by bad whether, and dishonest low rank officials. The top level leaders did not completely know the truth because the low rank officials worried about punishment.
> 
> For Tunisia's issue. I'm not convinced by your words. I found the explanation from a professor of Manouba University is more persuasive. "Since the start of the Arabia spring movement, Tunisia has experienced a wave of raging extremism: from 2011 to 2014, radical missionaries were free to speak and spread their extremist ideas. In addition, at the beginning of 2011, thousands of political prisoners were pardoned, they have a large number of Islamic militants, they are in the following 2 years in Tunisia and the surrounding countries in the war building the terrorist network."
> 
> Tunisia never ban knowledge of Islam, it's impossible.



Well the thing you forgot is that the majority of those Terro... were not religious ppl... most of them are criminals who run from the state after the revo, firstly in Libya and then Syria...
The other part of those Terro, are still not religius guys, they were mostly uneducated ones and poor fellow, who enjoyed a 500$ pay at the end of the month+ a "good" act...
And the third group a re the religious one..; but they didn't go to Syria, they stayed till this day in TN, to recruit...

The 2011-2013 gov in TN was under Ennahda power, an islamist party, who didn't preach terro ideology, but they closed their eyes on those who choosed to join Jihadist groups in Syria... that's why you get that much TN ppl in Syria... bc the gov at that time let it happen by not closing the border for some.

As for Religious blockade, under Ben ALi, anyone who was too much religious were arrested and Islamic teaching were only allowed in some parts of Universities or schools... under a strict eye of the gov...

ps: YOu country is big, ours is not... we know who went to syria and who is what around us... So yes I know what type of person went to syria... those I saw, were 90% drug dealers or bandits..; who find " the light" of their madness and joined ISIS...
those 3K were mostly from Manouba/Cité Khadra/ Ben guerden and Kasserine... only 3-4 cities... (poor neighboohood...) only around 500 remains... all of the others are dead.. everyday families get phone calls... with the news... around here

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

hackerdelight said:


> I'm not surprised at what you said at all. Look at your country's contribution:
> 
> View attachment 390132
> 
> 
> Tunisia is the champion of supporting ISIS.



China has used Its "veto" number of times to save this guy- and you here are giving lessons to others-







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masood_Azhar
Even Pakistanis don't want such people-

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## Zarvan

Jf Thunder said:


> Beard is a sunnah
> and niqaab is a creation of Mullahs
> and if you are so concerned, why not go for Jihad, and get killed.


Niqab is not creation of Mullahs it's order of RASOOL SAW and I am doing what I am doing so please give me a break

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## waz

faithfulguy said:


> I'm not communist. But besides that, I agree with you.



As in friend, I don't believe in communism either.

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## Jf Thunder

Zarvan said:


> Niqab is not creation of Mullahs it's order of RASOOL SAW and I am doing what I am doing so please give me a break


no its not

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## 武成王

HannibalBarca said:


> Well the thing you forgot is that the majority of those Terro... were not religious ppl... most of them are criminals who run from the state after the revo, firstly in Libya and then Syria...
> The other part of those Terro, are still not religius guys, they were mostly uneducated ones and poor fellow, who enjoyed a 500$ pay at the end of the month+ a "good" act...
> And the third group a re the religious one..; but they didn't go to Syria, they stayed till this day in TN, to recruit...
> 
> The 2011-2013 gov in TN was under Ennahda power, an islamist party, who didn't preach terro ideology, *but they closed their eyes on those who choosed to join Jihadist groups in Syria... *that's why you get that much TN ppl in Syria... bc the gov at that time let it happen by not closing the border for some.
> 
> As for Religious blockade, under Ben ALi, anyone who was too much religious were arrested and Islamic teaching were only allowed in some parts of Universities or schools... under a strict eye of the gov...
> 
> ps: YOu country is big, ours is not... we know who went to syria and who is what around us... So yes I know what type of person went to syria... those I saw, were 90% drug dealers or bandits..; who find " the light" of their madness and joined ISIS...
> those 3K were mostly from Manouba/Cité Khadra/ Ben guerden and Kasserine... only 3-4 cities... (poor neighboohood...) only around 500 remains... all of the others are dead.. everyday families get phone calls... with the news... around here



*"but they closed their eyes on those who choosed to join Jihadist groups in Syria..."*
So you admit it's your government's fault in 2011-2013 which connived those extremists?


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## Jf Thunder

faithfulguy said:


> so what is the exact difference between views from a Mullah vs from Muhammad?


it is a vast topic
and views about it differ among Muslims themselves
so if I was to tell you, they will be my views, and may not agree with others.
but the bottom line is, we Muslims believe that whatever the Quran says is Law and there is no doubt in it.

We also believe in the sayings (Hadith) and doings (Sunnah) of the Prophet Muhammad (S.A.WW) however there is a high chance that changes may have been made to them. And in this point difference among the Muslims lie.

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## Zarvan

Jf Thunder said:


> no its not


Yes it's in fact this is order in Quran that is why when this order all Muslim women started doing niqab so please even those who say it's not compulsory never tries to deny that that ayat is for niqab they only try to come up wiht other points


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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> *"but they closed their eyes on those who choosed to join Jihadist groups in Syria..."*
> So you admit it's your government's fault in 2011-2013 which connived those extremists?



It's not their fault... since ISIS back in 2011 wasn't a terro organization yet... they didn't exist as this name back in that day... 
And jihadist organization wasn't seen as a Terro group... all started back in 2013-2014 with ISIS and his partition from other jihadi groups by taking control of a good part of syria and make their own country...


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## 武成王

HannibalBarca said:


> It's not their fault... since ISIS back in 2011 wasn't a terro organization yet...
> And jihadist organization wasn't seen as a Terro group... all started back in 2013-2014 with ISIS and his partition from other jihadi groups by taking control of a good part of syria and make their own country...


No rhetoric please. In short, Islam is not a problem, extremist idea is. Muslim exist in China for more than 800 years, now there're at least 25 millions, 10 ethnicity groups. Besides, my impression on Muslim world is, there's no a common agreement on many things, e.g. Sunni and Shia, both claim they are true Muslim, the other is not. argue over clothe, ceremony, etc, etc, every branch often claim they are right, the others are wrong. Can this be fixed ?

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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> No rhetoric please. In short, Islam is not a problem, extremist idea is. besides, my impression on Muslim world is, there's no a common agreement on many things, e.g. Sunni and Shia, both claim they are true Muslim, the other is not. argue over clothe, ceremony, etc, etc, every branch often claim they are right, the others are wrong. Can this be fixed ?



Islam is not a problem... muslims are...

SUnni vs Shia partition and differences in the few first centuries were only minimal... but with time it changed to the core with a very ideological partition. that's why it's called a sect. Sunnis on the other hand, are very similar to what was Islam back in the days...


Can they be fixed? Well they can live in peace... But you can't add both to make one... since the ideology became far apart...


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## 武成王

HannibalBarca said:


> Islam is not a problem... muslims are...
> 
> SUnni vs Shia partition and differences in the few first centuries were only minimal... but with time it changed to the core with a very ideological partition. that's why it's called a sect. Sunnis on the other hand, are very similar to what was Islam back in the days...
> 
> 
> Can they be fixed? Well they can live in peace... But you can't add both to make one... since the ideology became far apart...



Do you really believe what your said? Syria issue (excluding ISIS), SA vs Iran? Do you know that there's Shia (minority) in XJ, Ning Xia(Hui), if there's no a strong government, they would fight each other? Ok, anyway, I hope your words work.


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## HannibalBarca

hackerdelight said:


> Do you really believe what your said? Syria issue (excluding ISIS), SA vs Iran? Do you know that there's Shia (minority) in XJ, Ning Xia(Hui), if there's no a strong government, they would fight each other? Ok, anyway, I hope your words work.


Syria civil wwar did not begun with a Sunni-Shia conflict... never.
But like any arab country around the globe, more liberty, equality and opportunities and somehow a democratic regime....

The Shia-Sunni came later, when others butt in like Hezbollah/Iran/ISIS and such... .
Now it has become a playground for regional power to play... and make them feel the little shitty power they may gain in it... Like RU... who has nothing to do in it... but since his shitty economy wanted to impose himself in the region after US vaccum ...

ANd today this multipolar influence is being shaked up by US and his TRumpist view... Now Putin is not very happy, his puppet is playing around like a grown man...


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## Śakra

HannibalBarca said:


> Well that's light tbh... Muslim Student+ Muslim officials are not allowed to do Ramadan since 2-3 years now... Not even speaking about the prayer limit Age... ( a lot of mosque do not allow youngters to pray, something like not iunder 30 or 35...) . THe beard thing too... etc...
> That's the ideology of Communism... Religion is the main enemy... bc it can hold power upon them... and it's mostly Uyghur targeted...



Karl Marx, the father of Communism, once said "religion is opium of the mind". This atheistic fervor is a central tenent of Communist countries.


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## Jf Thunder

Zarvan said:


> Yes it's in fact this is order in Quran that is why when this order all Muslim women started doing niqab so please even those who say it's not compulsory never tries to deny that that ayat is for niqab they only try to come up wiht other points


it is not mentioned in the Quran.
and no I dont need your translations with the brackets with their own interpretations

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## HannibalBarca

Śakra said:


> Karl Marx, the father of Communism, once said "religion is opium of the mind". This atheistic fervor is a central tenent of Communist countries.



Atheism under Commies is also a religion... used to impose a control on the Mind... 
Same thing =/= name...

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

Jf Thunder said:


> it is not mentioned in the Quran.
> and no I dont need your translations with the brackets with their own interpretations



All three religions- Jews, Christians and Muslims must wear niqab and Hijab- It is a must- they are diluting the religious command If they are not doing so- and It call for severe punishment- comparable to committing a sin-


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## Śakra

HannibalBarca said:


> Atheism under Commies is also a religion... used to impose a control on the Mind...
> Same thing =/= name...



Very true.


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## takeitwithyou

Act is ruled to be a sign of weakness in fight against religious extremism

A Chinese government official has reportedly been demoted after refusing to smoke in front of religious people.

Jelil Matniyaz, the Communist Party chief of a village in the semi-autonomous, Muslim-majority province of Xinjiang in north-west China, had his title changed from “senior staff member” to “staff member”.

This was changed because of his “infirm political stands…and for being afraid to smoke in front of religious figures”, according to the state run _Global Times_ newspaper.

"Smoking is a personal choice, and religious and ordinary people should respect each other, but his behaviour of 'not daring' to smoke conforms with extreme religious thought in Xinjiang," said an unnamed local official.

"As a Party chief, he should lead the fight against extreme religious thought, otherwise, he would fail to confront the threat of extreme regional forces," the official added.

According to local customs, it is considered wrong to smoke in front of older people or those who are religious. Some religious people attempt to force other citizens to follow this tradition. Those that do so are often accused of not being committed to secularisation.

Government officials are currently attempting to clamp down on religious extremism in Xinjiang, which is home to a number of different ethnic and religious groups, including the Muslim community known as the Uighurs. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-province-uyghur-minority-group-a7678896.html


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## grey boy 2

Post reported for purposely keep reposting thread to flame 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/xinj...idity-in-fighting-religious-extremism.488848/

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## takeitwithyou

grey boy 2 said:


> Post reported for purposely keep reposting thread to flame
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/xinj...idity-in-fighting-religious-extremism.488848/


First, there are hundreds of reposting done here on PDF. Second, both titles are different and it does not show up as being previously posted. Stop being so sensitive. Merge it .


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Message is clear, no Chinese official should show a sign of weakness in front of any religious group, good discipline action, no religion is above Chinese government, it's been like that for pass millennium and will continue this way.

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## MultaniGuy

That is China, and that is their internal affairs.

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## takeitwithyou

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Message is clear, no Chinese official should show a sign of weakness in front of any religious group, good discipline action, no religion is above Chinese government, it's been like that for pass millennium and will continue this way.


This is not about weakness, this about a personal choice not to smoke in front of someone out of respect.


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## Taimur Khurram

The Chinese government are hardline atheists. He should've known that and acted accordingly.

Anyway, it's still stupid.


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## takeitwithyou

Iqbal Ali said:


> That is China, and that is their internal affairs.


And I presume you feel the same across all countries. Example: If Trump wants a Muslim ban that is our internal business.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

takeitwithyou said:


> This is not about weakness, this about a personal choice not to smoke in front of someone out of respect.



If he's not Chinese official, Chinese government wont give a rat a$$.



takeitwithyou said:


> And I presume you feel the same across all countries. Example: If Trump wants a Muslim ban that is our internal business.



How about ask you government to do something about it?

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## MultaniGuy

takeitwithyou said:


> And I presume you feel the same across all countries. Example: If Trump wants a Muslim ban that is our internal business.


Absolutely, that is America's internal affairs, no matter how stupid it is.

Would I like another country interfering in Pakistan's affairs?



dsr478 said:


> The Chinese government are hardline atheists. He should've known that and acted accordingly.
> 
> Anyway, it's still stupid.


That is their country. You have to respect their laws, no matter how strange it may seem to you.

Most Han Chinese are not Muslim. They probably do not understand Islam or the Muslim way of life.
One has to respect Chinese laws when in China's house.

Quite obvious isn't it.

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## Dash

Iqbal Ali said:


> Absolutely, that is America's internal affairs, no matter how stupid it is.
> 
> Would I like another country interfering in Pakistan's affairs?



India?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Iqbal Ali said:


> Absolutely, that is America's internal affairs, no matter how stupid it is.
> 
> Would I like another country interfering in Pakistan's affairs?



That what had happen to India trying to meddle into China's affaire in 1959 by harboring Dalai Lama, and they payed a heavy price with Chinese's reciprocity...and Indians are keep crying up until now. India is a good example, We don't care to turn China-India friendship from Chini-India Bhai Bhai to Chini-Indi bye-bye if necessary @Roybot

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## Mo12

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Message is clear, no Chinese official should show a sign of weakness in front of any religious group, good discipline action, no religion is above Chinese government, it's been like that for pass millennium and will continue this way.


You cant force the will of the people though.


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## waz

Eminent Mainstream Media said:


> All three religions- Jews, Christians and Muslims must wear niqab and Hijab- It is a must- they are diluting the religious command If they are not doing so- and It call for severe punishment- comparable to committing a sin-



What?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Mo12 said:


> You cant force the will of the people though.



This is not people though, he's Chinese official and should be confined within Chinese government disciplinary thought...LMAO

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## StraightShooter

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Message is clear, no Chinese official should show a sign of weakness in front of any religious group, good discipline action, no religion is above Chinese government, it's been like that for pass millennium and will continue this way.



For Muslims, religion comes first then the nation.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

StraightShooter said:


> For Muslims, religion comes first then the nation.



That apply very well to India and I'm not surprise .

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## StraightShooter

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> That apply very well to India and I'm not surprise .



No not just in India.

Muslims all over the world consider themselves Muslims first and then a citizen of the country.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

StraightShooter said:


> No not just in India.
> 
> Muslims all over the world consider themselves Muslims first and then a citizen of the country.



Don't you guys think the same when harboring Dalai Lama in 1959 that he's a Buddhist figure that India need to think of him first before China...and you got what you deserve.


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## Imad.Khan

What has smoking got to do with Islam? Muslims smoke too


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## StraightShooter

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Don't you guys think the same when harboring Dalai Lama in 1959 that he's a Buddhist figure that India need to think of him first before China...and you got what you deserve.



India fought for Tibet not for the religion. There are Buddhists in China too not just in Tibet.

Anyway comparing individuals and countries does not make any sense.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

StraightShooter said:


> India fought for Tibet not for the religion. There are Buddhists in China too not just in Tibet.
> 
> Anyway comparing individuals and countries does not make any sense.



It's the same, India is a good example for interfere with China's internal affaire and we have no hesitation for any outcome, there is no permanent friend nor enemy only permanent interest so we can say Indi-Chini bye bye.

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## Logicaldude

Imad.Khan said:


> What has smoking got to do with Islam? Muslims smoke too



There are fatwas that smoking is unislamic (harming your body deliberately not allowed).

Muslims do EVERYTHING. That is not the point.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Not sure what has smoke has to do with religion but ... going with the flow here


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## lastofthepatriots

It's more of a culture thing. I'm sure most Chinese wouldn't smoke in front of their parents face. No matter how old they are.


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## Imad.Khan

Logicaldude said:


> There are fatwas that smoking is unislamic (harming your body deliberately not allowed).
> 
> Muslims do EVERYTHING. That is not the point.



Even in that case, the article doesn't say he was a muslim, or that he was a smoker. So what is the point,


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## Imad.Khan

jessysingh said:


> YES, DADDY always right no one dare to challenge daddy's. but agar koi or kuj bole tu os ke khar nhi, yeh hai asli doglapn



Here is the difference, the guy demoted was a government employee, the law is not forcing the minority population to smoke. In India they are forcing people to stop eating what they want.

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## Imad.Khan

jessysingh said:


> india don't force to anyone only RSS, COW RAKHSA DAL, BALEANG DAL etc.. india is 130cr people just wait sometime every thing will be alright



BJP is the political wing of RSS and they are in power in India so that negates your theory.

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## patman

Imad.Khan said:


> Here is the difference, the guy demoted was a government employee, the law is not forcing the minority population to smoke. In India they are forcing people to stop eating what they want.


Right instead china is restricting Muslims from growing beards & wearing burkad , don't you dare pretend like you care about Muslims of other nations while not condemning china.

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## Mamluk

patman said:


> Right instead china is restricting Muslims from growing beards & wearing burkad , don't you dare pretend like you care about Muslims of other nations while not condemning china.



We haven't officially condemned India for killing Muslims who eat beef; then why do you expect us to condemn more harmless stuff like banning long beards? (a worthless cause to fight for)

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## Logicaldude

Imad.Khan said:


> Here is the difference, the guy demoted was a government employee, the law is not forcing the minority population to smoke. In India they are forcing people to stop eating what they want.



In pakistan too. In china too. In every country on earth govts ban certain foods and animals. Name one country that does not ban eating certain animals. Just ONE.

You are so subservient to china that you are equating china banning even religious practices (fasting, visiting mosques for minors etc) with banning a food item in India?????

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## patman

Logicaldude said:


> In pakistan too. In china too. In every country on earth govts ban certain foods and animals. Name one country that does not ban eating certain animals. Just ONE.
> 
> Why are you so stupid?



In USA its illegal to eat/sell horse meat

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## Mamluk

patman said:


> This is against fundamental human rights to practice their religion. A government doing out of pure insecurity should be internationally condemned .



No it's not. It's communism. It's targeted at all religions. There is no discrimination.

What India does is not communism. It's discrimination. It's targeted only at Muslims. Your entire politics, nationalism, anger is centered on Islamophobia. You kill, rape, lynch on a whim. Your PM led a riot to cleanse Gujarat of Muslim population. Don't insult China by comparing $cums like yourselves to them.



patman said:


> Lol civil violence is common in all nations , including Pakistan , if i hsd a nickel every time a minority was attacked in Pakistan i would have been richer than ambani.



If I had a nickel to count every Muslim culled in India since '47, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.

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## Imad.Khan

patman said:


> Right instead china is restricting Muslims from growing beards & wearing burkad , don't you dare pretend like you care about Muslims of other nations while not condemning china.



Ok I condemn China for banning beard and burqa, even though the ban is on abnormally long beards. I also condemn India for banning beef and also for raping and killing muslins in Kashmir. Happy now

Secondly the amount of Indians on this thread claiming duplicity of Pakistanis, the situation here has nothing to do with Muslims, Chinese govt demoted one of its employees for not smoking, how is this comparable to anything you said in your post.



Logicaldude said:


> In pakistan too. In china too. In every country on earth govts ban certain foods and animals. Name one country that does not ban eating certain animals. Just ONE.
> 
> You are so subservient to china that you are equating china banning even religious practices (fasting, visiting mosques for minors etc) with banning a food item in India?????



subservient? so you want us to condemn china just because you people feel like it. 

Name me one country that has banned beef apart from yours. I understand if you ban dog, horse, or even monkey meat.


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## Logicaldude

Imad.Khan said:


> Ok I condemn China for banning beard and burqa, even though the ban is on abnormally long beards. I also condemn India for banning beef and also for raping and killing muslins in Kashmir. Happy now
> 
> Secondly the amount of Indians on this thread claiming duplicity of Pakistanis, the situation here has nothing to do with Muslims, Chinese govt demoted one of its employees for not smoking, how is this comparable to anything you said in your post.
> 
> 
> 
> subservient? so you want us to condemn china just because you people feel like it.
> 
> Name me one country that has banned beef apart from yours. I understand if you ban dog, horse, or even monkey meat.



Why do you UNDERSTAND banning horse? It is halal.how is it different than banning beef?

Why should any other country ban beef? It is sacred to hindus and hindus live in India. How does beef ban affect religious practice but horse ban or houbara ban does not? All are halal. The only thing that seems to bother you is that it is done to appease hindus. Why should that make you unhappy? Do you have any deep unreaolved issues that something done in a foreign country to protect religious feelings of hindus bothers u?????

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## patman

@ xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> No it's not. It's communism. It's targeted at all religions. There is no discrimination.


Really , tell me wise guy which other religious group in china wears burka ?

Go bresh up on communism before making ridiculous statements.



> What India does is not communism. It's discrimination. It's targeted only at Muslims.



Hindus eat beef m8 , we just don't eat cows. Tell me where in the Quran its written than Muslims must eat only cows?



> Your entire politics, nationalism, anger is centered on Islamophobia.



Protecting agricultural animals in farming states is not islamapobia .
agriculture is the backbone of those states , in USA & Canada its illegal to eat horses for the same reason , why aren't you crying this is oppression to Mongolians there ?


> You kill, rape, lynch on a whim. Your PM led a riot to cleanse Gujarat of Muslim population.



All i am hereing is a brainwashed Pakistani.


> Don't insult China by comparing $cums like yourselves to them.



Only a $cum turns his back to his "fellow brothers". If i tag a indian or a Afghan Muslim right now i know what they will call you.


> If I had a nickel to count every Muslim culled in India since '47, I'd be richer than Bill Gates.



That explains why you failed at 5th grade maths.

Warning:
* this topic is about china , stop dragging India into it.*

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## Mamluk

patman said:


> All i am hereing is a brainwashed Pakistani.
> 
> 
> Only a $cum turns his back to his "fellow brothers".
> 
> That explains why you failed at 5th grade maths.



Typical Indian - get personal when you run out of arguments.



patman said:


> Protecting agricultural animals in farming states is not islamapobia .



Yes lynching Muslims to death is protection of agricultural animals. Logic only Indian brain can come up with.



patman said:


> *this topic is about china , stop dragging India into it.*



Don't get excited Indian. According to YOU, we kill our own Muslim brethren in Balochistan, Sindh and Kashmir. So why should we protest against restrictions on long beard? Shouldn't we stop killing Muslims before we talk about long beards? Lol.

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## Imad.Khan

Logicaldude said:


> Why do you UNDERSTAND banning horse? It is halal.how is it different than banning beef?
> 
> Why should any other country ban beef? It is sacred to hindus and hindus live in India. How does beef ban affect religious practice but horse ban or houbara ban does not? All are halal. The only thing that seems to bother you is that it is done to appease hindus. Why should that make you unhappy? Do you have any deep unreaolved issues that something done in a foreign country to protect religious feelings of hindus bothers u?????



Horse is not halal, houbara is banned because it is on the verge of extinction. Secondly if hindus don't want to eat beef then they shouldn't, why force it on other people and why are they killing muslims for just transporting cattle? especially when Indian claim that they are a secular country 

Do you have unresolved issues that you are on this thread and want Pakistanis to condemn China for an incident that has nothing to do with Pakistan or muslims.

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## Kaniska

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> That what had happen to India trying to meddle into China's affaire in 1959 by harboring Dalai Lama, and they payed a heavy price with Chinese's reciprocity...and Indians are keep crying up until now. India is a good example, We don't care to turn China-India friendship from Chini-India Bhai Bhai to Chini-Indi bye-bye if necessary @Roybot



When was India China was Bhai Bhai ??? India and China never in good relation with each other...Rather China use Pakistan to be used against India...There is nothing to even care about what Bhai Bhai you are talking about...


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## MultaniGuy

I eat cow in Pakistan and lots of cow.

Too bad, nobody can stop me.

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## Logicaldude

Imad.Khan said:


> Horse is not halal, houbara is banned because it is on the verge of extinction. Secondly if hindus don't want to eat beef then they shouldn't, why force it on other people and why are they killing muslims for just transporting cattle? especially when Indian claim that they are a secular country
> 
> Do you have unresolved issues that you are on this thread and want Pakistanis to condemn China for an incident that has nothing to do with Pakistan or muslims.



I dont want you to condemn china. Dollars are more important than religion.

Horse is halal as per most scholars. And if you want to protect houbaras YOU dont hunt them, why are you forcing it on hindus of pakistan? Illogical? So is your rant.

Cow slaughter is banned in India same as prophet cartoons are banned in India. It hurts feeling No matter who does it. Get it? You cant say why ban prophet cartoons if muslims dont want to draw them they are free not to...

Or do you have famous pakistani double standards and substandard logic?


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## Beast

Mo12 said:


> You cant force the will of the people though.


You mean Indian Kashmir?



StraightShooter said:


> No not just in India.
> 
> Muslims all over the world consider themselves Muslims first and then a citizen of the country.


How abt Kurdish and Turkish or Shia and Sunni?

Or maybe east Pakistan, Bangladesh

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## jessysingh

Imad.Khan said:


> BJP is the political wing of RSS and they are in power in India so that negates your theory.


plz understand we know RSS is political wing of BJP and india is democracy evey five years govt will be change


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## Sheikh Rauf

grey boy 2 said:


> Post reported for purposely keep reposting thread to flame
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/xinj...idity-in-fighting-religious-extremism.488848/



I see nowadays a lot of new members are having a agenda. anything which demoralize Pakistan China relationship and other countries. I would say specially China and indian don't leave any chance to humiliate China. This hate inside indians will burn them.



StraightShooter said:


> For Muslims, religion comes first then the nation.


Muslim faith is to defend its land if they are allowed to live their lives islamically which they are more than india.

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## Imad.Khan

Logicaldude said:


> I dont want you to condemn china. Dollars are more important than religion.
> 
> Horse is halal as per most scholars. And if you want to protect houbaras YOU dont hunt them, why are you forcing it on hindus of pakistan? Illogical? So is your rant.
> 
> Cow slaughter is banned in India same as prophet cartoons are banned in India. It hurts feeling No matter who does it. Get it? You cant say why ban prophet cartoons if muslims dont want to draw them they are free not to...
> 
> Or do you have famous pakistani double standards and substandard logic?



I follow Hanafi scholars and per them horse is not halal. Secondly in Pakistan hindus are not forced to eat or not eat anything against their will. Also the ban on houbara was requested by IUCN, which organization requested the Indian government to ban beef? your whole twisted logic of comparing houbara hunting with beef is flawed. Come up with something better.



patman said:


> Warning:
> * this topic is about china , stop dragging India into it.*



well actually it is Indians that derailed the thread by dragging Pakistan and Muslims in it, check the posts again

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## Logicaldude

Imad.Khan said:


> I follow Hanafi scholars and per them horse is not halal. Secondly in Pakistan hindus are not forced to eat or not eat anything against their will. Also the ban on houbara was requested by IUCN, which organization requested the Indian government to ban beef? your whole twisted logic of comparing houbara hunting with beef is flawed. Come up with something better.



Why is it flawed? Both are halal but are banned for the greater good of society. Conservation for boubaras and maintaining law and order for cows.

This is not a law and order problem in other countries but it is in india and hence the indian law.

Prophet cartoons is not a law and order problem in the US but India it is. Hence the Indian law.

As a muslim this should bother you ONLY if this curbs your religious practice. But just because something is allowed does not become religious practice.

Namaz - religious practice

2nd Wedding - social practice

Pav bhaji, houbara, black buck, cow - food habit

Slavery of pows - rules of war

All are allowed under islam, but other than 1 others are not religious practices and can be curbed for the greater good.


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## Imad.Khan

Logicaldude said:


> Why is it flawed? Both are halal but are banned for the greater good of society. Conservation for boubaras and maintaining law and order for cows.
> 
> This is not a law and order problem in other countries but it is in india and hence the indian law.
> 
> Prophet cartoons is not a law and order problem in the US but India it is. Hence the Indian law.
> 
> As a muslim this should bother you ONLY if this curbs your religious practice. But just because something is allowed does not become religious practice.
> 
> Namaz - religious practice
> 
> 2nd Wedding - social practice
> 
> Pav bhaji, houbara, black buck, cow - food habit
> 
> Slavery of pows - rules of war
> 
> All are allowed under islam, but other than 1 others are not religious practices and can be curbed for the greater good.



What practice does killing people comes under for transporting cattle ?

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## Logicaldude

Imad.Khan said:


> What practice does killing people comes under for transporting cattle ?



That is murder and rioting. Serious crimes.

Why would you equate that with govt policies? As per law those crimes deserve serious punishments.

Why such intellectual dishonesty?

I eat beef and i oppose beef ban because it is not practical or economical for a poor country like India. But i vehemently oppose the notion that beef ban is some kind of anti muslim step. It is a pro hindu step yes, same as ban on satanic verses or hajj subsidies is a pro muslim step. But that does not automatically become anti hindu does it?


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## shjliu

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> We haven't officially condemned India for killing Muslims who eat beef; then why do you expect us to condemn more harmless stuff like banning long beards? (a worthless cause to fight for)


I don't think China ban people from having long beards.



patman said:


> In USA its illegal to eat/sell horse meat


that is NOT true, one can eat horse meat in USA!
http://newstarget.com/2016-02-23-us...oducing-horse-meat-for-human-consumption.html

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## StraightShooter

Beast said:


> You mean Indian Kashmir?
> 
> 
> How abt Kurdish and Turkish or Shia and Sunni?
> 
> Or maybe east Pakistan, Bangladesh



Yes. They all consider themselves Muslims first.



Sheikh Rauf said:


> Muslim faith is to defend its land if they are allowd to live there lives islamicaly which they are moer than india.



That is not the point.

If they are with an only option to either defend their country or their religion, Muslims will select the latter.

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## Sully3

indian poster false flagging and making threads bashing china. 

the hate indians have inside them is just another level.

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## patman

[USER=25628]@xxx[/USER][{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> Typical Indian - get personal when you run out of arguments.





lol look at this two-faced hypocrite , what part of you calling me a scum isn't a personal attack .





shjliu said:


> I don't think China ban people from having long beards.
> 
> 
> that is NOT true, one can eat horse meat in USA!
> http://newstarget.com/2016-02-23-us...oducing-horse-meat-for-human-consumption.html



1.china has banned beards and burkas

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nce-extremism-crackdown-freedom-a7657826.html

2.USA has banned horse meat in many states like California, just like India with beef.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ia-did-ban-horse-meat/?utm_term=.e4de90214114

different states ,different laws. you can beef in 21/29 states India.


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## Sheikh Rauf

StraightShooter said:


> Yes. They all consider themselves Muslims first.
> 
> 
> 
> That is not the point.
> 
> If they are with an only option to either defend their country or their religion, Muslims will select the latter.


What a nonsence question put ur self in a position if u have to protect ur religion or house what would chose. 
There are already people in india defending their religious cow over human.


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## Counterpunch

Extreme atheist taking precautionary extreme measures to counter the imaginary extreme religious ones. This will only convert imaginary extremism to real time extremism in their part of the land. You can only suppress an idea so much. This will prove to be counterproductive in only a few years from now


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## StraightShooter

Sheikh Rauf said:


> What a nonsence question put ur self in a position if u have to protect ur religion or house what would chose.
> There are already people in india defending their religious cow over human.



I will chose my home before religion. 

For me all life means the same. Killing a cow is same as killing a Human. I see no difference.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Message is clear, no Chinese official should show a sign of weakness in front of any religious group, good discipline action, no religion is above Chinese government, it's been like that for pass millennium and will continue this way.


In certain culture, (including ours), its disrespectful to smoke infront of elders (not religious figures).

My father used to smoke (he quit smoking), yet i never saw him smoke infront of his father (Grandpa) out of respect.

Though there is no issue regarding smoking infront of religious people, but people usually avoid smoking out of respect, not weakness.



StraightShooter said:


> I will chose my home before religion.
> 
> For me all life means the same. Killing a cow is same as killing a Human. I see no difference.


An animal can never be equal to a human life.

A cows meat if to be consumed, so is its milk, its dung can be used to generate bio gas and its hide for leather.. because even in its death, it serves a purpose...


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## Sheikh Rauf

StraightShooter said:


> I will chose my home before religion.
> 
> For me all life means the same. Killing a cow is same as killing a Human. I see no difference.


Lol this is why I see so many indians are dying to get out of india but even they become other citizen they stay hindu why so much contradiction. If u r not committed to ur own religion which gave u sence of killing an animal is same as human then either u are lying or just arguing for sake of arguments.
By the hindustan and bharat is religious word who u want to defend it's some how related to ur religion. In way u defending ur religion not home.


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## StraightShooter

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Lol this is why I see so many indians are dying to get out of india but even they become other citizen they stay hindu why so much contradiction. If u r not committed to ur own religion which gave u sence of killing an animal is same as human then either u are lying or just arguing for sake of arguments.
> By the hindustan and bharat is religious word who u want to defend it's some how related to ur religion. In way u defending ur religion not home.



My stand on killing or not killing animal is based on Humane approach not based on religion.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

StraightShooter said:


> You can also kill useless/non-productive Humans for meat and fine leather.



Sure but not all animals are fit for consumption.

But than again you are conflicting your own words about animal = human?

Also beef is consumed not because of its taste, in Pak its cheaper than mutton,fish hence people who cant afford other meats buy it. Hence its a cheaper alternative for the poor.


> As I understand Human meat is tastier than any other animal meat. Hence, A man eating tiger never goes back to eating any other animal again once it has tasted Human blood and flesh.



A tiger only preys on a human when it becomes incapable of hunting..


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## StraightShooter

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Sure but not all animals are fit for consumption.
> 
> But than again you are conflicting your own words about animal = human?
> 
> Also beef is consumed not because of its taste, in Pak its cheaper than mutton,fish hence people who cant afford other meats buy it. Hence its a cheaper alternative for the poor.



I am not contradicting anything. In fact many governments has double standards here.

How do you know if Human flesh is cheaper or costlier?

There was a time when people used to be sold in African markets as slaves. If all government make selling Humans and Human meat legal, may be Human flesh would be much cheaper. Think about it, there are 6-7 Billion Humans on this planet already. If Human Business is allowed, people would also start having more and more babies so that they could make bigger bucks.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> A tiger only preys on a human when it becomes incapable of hunting..



Incorrect. They prey what they could on.

You should put 100 Kids and 100 wild bisons near a lion or tiger or a hyena and see what gets eaten first.

It is proven that tigers like human flesh than anything. Hence we put down man eating tigers, as once a tiger starts eating human it gets addicted. There is nothing like Human meat for tigers just like there is nothing like a Cow meat for you.


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## Sheikh Rauf

StraightShooter said:


> My stand on killing or not killing animal is based on Humane approach not based on religion.


Exactily and atleast stop lying once cuz this is pure hindu approach. I just don't wanna go into that u actually think humans and animals are equal u must be PHD in stupidity


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## jessysingh

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Exactily and atleast stop lying once cuz this is pure hindu approach. I just don't wanna go into that u actually think humans and animals are equal u must be PHD in stupidity


ok I understand nature of law, law of physics, science, technology is does not any thing for you and your religion, but once time read history honestly most of animals or bird's are as old as human and everyone right to live equally in this earth

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## Eminent Mainstream Media

waz said:


> What?



If you follow the religion strictly then only-


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## waz

Eminent Mainstream Media said:


> If you follow the religion strictly then only-



Erm there is a great deal of ikhtilaf on such issues.


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## StraightShooter

Sheikh Rauf said:


> Exactily and atleast stop lying once cuz this is pure hindu approach. I just don't wanna go into that u actually think humans and animals are equal u must be PHD in stupidity



Is it?

*The Nazarene Way of Essenic Studies**
~ Vegetarianism in the Bible ~*
_By Denis Giron_

*Introduction*
_When I first began to study the bible, the people I studied with told me that it was wrong for me to be a vegetarian. I have found a common attack by Christians, and even Muslims on vegetarianism goes along the lines of "God said we could eat meat. Are you trying to say you are more merciful than God?" The answer to that question is "surely not", God should be the most merciful being. To help faith-based vegetarians, this article will discuss how vegetarianism relates to the bible, animals, and God. I will be quoting from the NIV translation of the bible, unless otherwise noted._

*In The Beginning*
According to the bible, the first people were vegetarians. The first two chapters of Genesis tell a story of man and animal being companions, and trees being the source of food. In Genesis chapter 1, verse 29, God commands man to only eat fruits and vegetables.....

*Genesis 1:29*
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

It is very clear, that right there it says God gave the first people the plants and the trees for food. Some people try to twist this scripture to mean other things, and try to argue that this does not prove people were eating only the fruits and plants. One popular argument is that it was allowing man to eat vegetables as well as meat, but this is wrong. Humans did not meat eat until after the flood. To prove this we need to turn to the 9th chapter of Genesis.....

*Genesis 9:3*
Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

Now notice God says "just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything". This is proof that before this point, people were only eating fruits and vegetables. At any rate, at this point God allowed man to eat meat, which opens up the argument that abstaining from meat is a subconscious form of questioning God's mercy. This is not true at all. In fact, vegetarians who believe in the bible are merely preparing themselves for heaven. When the kingdom of heaven is established, all beings will become herbivores. Some might argue that we will not need to eat in heaven, but the bible teaches that even in heaven, beings must eat. For example, in Genesis 19:1-3, angels from heaven ate a meal made of bread. So in heaven, beings will continue to eat. The prophet Isaiah gave many descriptions of this kingdom, and all his visions point to all beings being vegetarian. If all beings in heaven are going to be herbivores, then it would be safe to say that vegetarians living today are merely more prepared for that time. Isaiah chapter 11 gives a lengthy description of the peaceful kingdom, and the 65th chapter has a particular verse that strongly supports the idea of a kingdom filled with nothing but herbivores....

*Isaiah 65:25*
"The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither hunt nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.


*Man's Dominion over Animals*
The bible, on many occasions, says that man was given "dominion" over the animals. People have twisted this to mean that they can do anything they wish to animals. What is meant by "dominion" is the ability to impose our will. We do indeed rule over all animals, as we are the most powerful species on the planet. This however, does not mean it is okay to abuse this power, through animal abuse, and other wicked acts. God, without a doubt, wants us to show mercy for animals.

Throughout the bible there are many stories that have a strong moral value. Whenever you read a story in the bible, ask yourself what the moral of that story was. It has to have a moral, because if there is no moral, then the story has no relevance. Surely nothing in the bible is irrelevant. In the 22nd chapter of the book of Numbers, there is the story of Balaam beating his donkey. Within in these verses is a strong story about animal abuse, suffering, and animal rights. Lets look at this story closely (the story of Balaam abusing his donkey can be found in Numbers 22:21-33)

*Numbers 22:21-23*
Balaam got up in the morning, saddled his donkey and went with the princes of Moab. But God was very angry when he went, and the angel of the LORD stood in the road to oppose him. Balaam was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with a drawn sword in his hand, she turned off the road into a field. Balaam beat her to get her back on the road.

Now, it should be noted that God was not angry with Balaam only because he abused animals. No, God was angry for many other reasons as well, but in the above verses, the angel tests Balaam's morals by diverting the path of his donkey. Balaam failed this first test as he beat his donkey for not staying on the path.

*Numbers 22:24-25*
Then the angel of the LORD stood in a narrow path between two vineyards, with walls on both sides. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she pressed close to the wall, crushing Balaam's foot against it. So he beat her again.

So, the donkey kept on moving, but the angel again diverted her path. This time the donkey's weight crushed Balaam's foot against the wall of a vineyard. In his rage, Balaam again beat the animal, not knowing that an angel was watching his wicked act.

*Numbers 22:26-27*
Then the angel of the LORD moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. When the donkey saw the angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat her with his staff.

This third time, the angel makes sure that the donkey cannot go left or right, and she therefore chooses to lay down. This time Balaam beat the donkey with his staff. This is particularly viscous, as in those times staffs were usually used by shepards to fend off wolves. They were made to protect sheep by severely hurting predators, sometimes even breaking bones, so the donkey must have been in terrible pain when Balaam beat her with his staff. The beatings are getting worse and worse, and both God and the angel have seen enough.....

*Numbers 22:28-30*
Then the LORD opened the donkey's mouth, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?" Balaam answered the donkey, "You have made a fool of me! If I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now." The donkey said to Balaam, "Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?" "No," he said.

So God allowed the donkey to speak. The donkey expressed her suffering, showing that the bible teaches that animals indeed suffer and feel pain. In verse 29, Balaam lets the donkey know how cold his heart is, telling her he would have killed her if he had his sword. In verse 30, Balaam agrees that the donkey had never before disobeyed orders. Those beatings were rather severe for first time offenses...

*Numbers 22:31-34*
Then the LORD opened Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown. The angel of the LORD asked him, "Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? I have come here to oppose you because your path is a reckless one before me. The donkey saw me and turned away from me these three times. If she had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared her." Balaam said to the angel of the LORD, "I have sinned. I did not realize you were standing in the road to oppose me."

Once Balaam saw the angel, he realized he had made a mistake. The angel is disgusted by Balaam's actions, and tells him that had the donkey kept walking he would have killed Balaam, but spared her. Abusing is animals is wrong, and the angel even asked Balaam why he would do such a thing as beating his donkey. In verse 34, Balaam said to the angel "I have sinned". What was Balaam's sin? It is clear his sin was beating his donkey. Even Balaam realized this. So, these verses show us it is wrong to abuse animals, and abuse the power we have been given over them.
*
Animal Sacrifices*
We have just discussed the concept of God having mercy on animals, and not wanting us to abuse them. The idea of animal rights being expressed in the bible comes under fire from those who point to instances of animal sacrifice. I admit the many mentionings of animal sacrifice in the bible have troubled me in the past. How can a merciful God command us to sacrifice animals? The truth of the matter is, we are NOT supposed to sacrifice animals. God does not command us to do this. The truth is, in Moses' time, after the Jews came out of Egypt, God allowed animal sacrifices for that time period.

The great Jewish philosopher Abarbanel believed animal sacrifice was briefly allowed by God in order to end the idolatry the Jews practiced in Egypt. He cited a Jewish writing that indicated that the Jews had become accustomed to sacrifices in Egypt. To wean them from these idolatrous practices, God tolerated the sacrifices but commanded that they be offered in one central sanctuary:

_Thereupon the Holy One, blessed be He, said "Let them at
all times offer their sacrifices before Me in the Tabernacle,
and they will be weaned from idolatry, and thus be saved."
(Rabbi J. H. Hertz, The Pentateuch and Haftorahs, p. 562)_

This was after the Jews had come out of Egypt. One Jewish theologian indicated that God did not want the Israelites to bring sacrifices; it was their choice. He based this on a biblical verse read on the Sabbath when the book of Leviticus (which discusses sacrifices) is read:

*Isaiah 43:23*
I have not burdened thee with a meal-offering, Nor wearied thee with frankincense.

The bible teaches that animal sacrifices were voluntary. Many have taken the scriptures to mean that we must sacrifice animals in order to please God. This is not what pleases God. We are commanded to obey his laws. This can be see in the book of Jeremiah:

*Jeremiah 7:22-23*
For I spoke not unto your fathers, nor commanded them on the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices; but this thing I commanded them, saying, "Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people; and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

God never commanded us to sacrifice animals. His message was "obey my voice". Nowhere in the Ten Commandments is there any reference to sacrifice, and even when sacrifices are first mentioned (Leviticus 1:2) the expression used is "when any man of you bringeth an offering," the first Hebrew word ki being literally "if", implying that it was a voluntary act.

I say it again: animal sacrifices were never a law of God. Infact God prefers we don't sacrifice animals. That is what is meant by "To do charity and justice is more acceptable to the Lord than sacrifice" (Proverbs 21:3). Also, in Hosea 6:6, God said "What I want is mercy, not sacrifice." As was stated before, animal sacrifices were permitted only for a brief time after the exodus from Egypt. After that, God began to hate animal sacrifice. Consider the following verses from the book of Isaiah....

*Isaiah 1:11-16*
"The multitude of your sacrifices-- what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of burnt offerings, of rams and the fat of fattened animals; I have no pleasure in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats. When you come to appear before me, who has asked this of you, this trampling of my courts? Stop bringing meaningless offerings! Your incense is detestable to me. New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations-- I cannot bear your evil assemblies. Your New Moon festivals and your appointed feasts my soul hates. They have become a burden to me; I am weary of bearing them. When you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide my eyes from you; even if you offer many prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are full of blood; wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong!



*Jesus was a vegetarian*
Now this is a touchy subject. Across the globe, there is a small handful of vegetarian Christians who assert that Jesus was a vegetarian. The bible, and other sources, seems to support this belief. Vegetarianism is not without precedent in the Christian, or even Catholic faiths: Many early church fathers were vegetarian, including St. Basil, St. John Chrysostom, and St. Francis of Assisi.

*Many Biblical scholars believe Jesus was a member of the Nazarene Essenes, a Jewish religious sect that followed a vegetarian diet and rejected animal sacrifices*. This is possible when one looks at the Shroud of Turin, a centuries old linen cloth that bears the image of a crucified man, whom many believe to be Jesus. If Jesus was indeed a member of the Nazarene Essenes, he would also have taken the vow of a Nazarene, thus not cut his hair (Numbers 6:5). In the imprint found in the shroud of turin, there is a man with west-asian features (Nazareth is in west Asia), who has long hair, further supporting the claim Jesus was a member of the Nazarene Essenes.

Of course, there is no definite proof the Shroud of Turin is legitimate, so in order to prove Jesus was a Nazarene Essene, or a vegetarian, we need to look into the bible. Now Jesus was loved by some, and hated by others, and accused of blasphemy by the priests of his time. This was because he claimed to be the Jewish Messiah that was prophesized about in the TaNaKh (Jewish bible, or "old testament"). Lets take a look at the Old Testament description of the Messiah to come...
*Note: *For these scriptures, I will use the King James Translation, which I feel is more accurate.

*Isaiah 7:14-15 (KJV)*
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, so that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

First of all, it says God's sign of the Messiah will be a virgin giving birth to a son. Jesus was born of a virgin mother. It says his name shall be Immanuel, which means "God is with us". Jesus' real name was Yeshua, which means "God is salvation". The name "Immanuel" is meant to signify that this will be the Messiah, regardless of what his name is. At any rate, in verse 15, the pre-messianic prophesy of Jesus, it says he will eat butter and honey, so that he can know the difference between good and evil.

Now the question is, what does eating butter and honey have to do with knowing how to choose between good and evil. To answer this question, we must have an understanding of Jewish beliefs about dietary laws, and vegetarianism. Throughout history there has been many vegetarian jews. Even today, only India has more faith-based vegetarians than Israel. These vegetarian jews believed meat corrupted your soul. Eating meat was permitted by God, but so was drinking alcohol. Infact, just like alcohol, the bible teaches, meat makes you "stumble", or corrupts your heart. That is why Jesus, the Messiah, would eat butter and honey, instead of meat, so that his heart would not be corrupted. Before, during, and after Jesus' time Jews argued wether or not meat was good for people. Consider the 14th chapter of Romans...

*Romans 14:21*
It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause any man to stumble.

There were many vegetarian jews, so why not Jesus? Especially considering he was from Nazareth. Jesus is even called a Nazarene in Matthew 2:23. Want an example of another vegetarian Jew from the bible? How about the prophet Daniel.

The name Daniel means "God is my judge", showing how confident he was that his actions were righteous in the eyes of God. Well, Daniel also was a vegetarian. In the first chapter of the book of Daniel, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon has imprisoned Daniel. In verse 8, Daniel refused to defile himself by eating the meat being served to him in the prison. Some have said that this is because the meat was offered to Babylonian gods, but this is incorrect, as vegetables were also offered in the name of these same Gods. Daniel abstained from the meat offered because he was a vegetarian. He knew the benefits of such a diet. Consider the following verses...

*Daniel 1:11-16*
Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over him: "Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see." So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. So the guard took away their meat and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead.

It's pretty clear Daniel was a vegetarian. So why not Jesus? The prophesy in Isaiah 7:15 said he would eat butter and honey (rather than meat) to be able to know the difference between good and evil. If Jesus ate meat, then he does not fit the Messianic prophesy of the Jews. Nowhere in the bible does it ever mention Jesus eating meat. In the King James translation, there are a few verses that mention Jesus eating meat, but in those cases, meat is translated from the Greek word "Broma" which literally means "food". All other translations of those same exact verses do not use the word "meat", rather they say Jesus sat down and ate "food".

Nowhere does it say Jesus ate meat. Now, knowing that the bible never mentions him eating meat, and taking into account the fact that Jesus taught love and kindness, how hard is it to assume he might have been a vegetarian? Also, Jesus was against animal sacrifice. He quoted Hosea 6:6, saying "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." He quoted Hosea in Matthew 9:13, and Matthew 12:6-7. He did this in a challenge to the Pharisees. Could this have been a hint into him being a vegetarian?

*What about Fish?*
In the 14th chapter of Matthew (verses 13-21) Jesus takes his boat to a remote island. Thousands follow him there. Jesus tells his disciples to feed these people, but the tell him that they only have five loaves of bread and two fish (verse 17). Jesus gave thanks for the food, and it multiplied into enough to feed five thousand people. Now the question is, if Jesus was a vegetarian, why was he giving fish to his followers?

It should be noted that some scholars contend that the Greek word for "fish weed" (a dried seaweed) has been mistranslated in this story as "fish". It is certainly true that dried fishweed would be more likely in a basket with bread, and fishweed remains a popular food among Palestinian peasants like the people to whom Jesus was speaking. Also, in the beginning of the story (Matthew 14:13) it says Jesus got to this place by boat. These people were right by the sea. If they were out of fish, why not just go on a quick fishing expedition? Surely with 5,000 men present it would not be that hard to go fishing. With this in mind, it further supports the thought that fishweed was being used, not actual fish.

Also, when one considers that the disciples did not even think about trying to catch some fish, this helps explain Matthew 4:18-20, where Jesus gets his first disciples by telling some fishermen to give up their profession and follow him. Jesus even says to them "I will make you a fisher of men". Could this be Jesus was having them give up their barbaric line of work to do something more righteous? It may sound absurd, but it starts to make a little more sense when you take it in the same context as the story of feeding five thousand, where the disciples never even considered trying to catch some fish, despite being beside the sea. Why didn't they go fishing? Did Jesus teach it was wrong to eat fish?

Finally, there is the story of after the resurrection, in Luke 24:42-43, where Jesus eats some fish. This is an interesting story. Some scholars however, have stated that in this verse, the Greek word for fish is "ixous", which happens to be an acronym for the phrase "Jesus Christ Son of God Savior." Indeed, the fish is still a symbol of Christianity today. This argument could go on and on. I would not totally dismiss the concept of Jesus eating fish. Maybe it was possible. There are vegetarians who eat fish, they are called "pesco-vegetarians". Also, it should be noted that in the Catholic church you are not allowed to eat meat on Fridays, but you are still allowed to eat fish. Could this be the result of Jesus' pesco-vegetarian life-style?

http://www.thenazareneway.com/biblical_ vegetarianism_denis_giron.htm


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## Eminent Mainstream Media

waz said:


> Erm there is a great deal of ikhtilaf on such issues.



Some scholars want to mellow down things- can't blame them, Christians did this a long time ago-


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## shjliu

patman said:


> lol look at this two-faced hypocrite , what part of you calling me a scum isn't a personal attack .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1.china has banned beards and burkas
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...nce-extremism-crackdown-freedom-a7657826.html
> 
> 2.USA has banned horse meat in many states like California, just like India with beef.
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ia-did-ban-horse-meat/?utm_term=.e4de90214114
> 
> different states ,different laws. you can beef in 21/29 states India.


did you read the comments in your link of independent website? if you did not, may be you should.

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## patman

shjliu said:


> did you read the comments in your link of independent website? if you did not, may be you should.


reading comments instead of over a dozen reputed news source lol even the comments say the ban has been there for many years


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## ahojunk

*Aerial view of farmland scenery in SW China's Yunnan*
(Xinhua) 18:18, April 07, 2017






Aerial photo taken on April 6, 2017 shows the farmlands in Tonghai County, southwest China's Yunnan Province. (Xinhua/Hu Chao)





Aerial photo taken on April 6, 2017 shows the farmlands in Tonghai County, southwest China's Yunnan Province. (Xinhua/Hu Chao)





Aerial photo taken on April 6, 2017 shows the farmlands in Tonghai County, southwest China's Yunnan Province. (Xinhua/Hu Chao)





Aerial photo taken on April 6, 2017 shows the farmlands in Tonghai County, southwest China's Yunnan Province. (Xinhua/Hu Chao)





Aerial photo taken on April 6, 2017 shows the farmlands in Tonghai County, southwest China's Yunnan Province. (Xinhua/Hu Chao)





Aerial photo taken on April 6, 2017 shows the farmlands in Tonghai County, southwest China's Yunnan Province. (Xinhua/Hu Chao)

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang anti-terrorism propaganda film*
*



*

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## beijingwalker

High Speed though, it's still a 10 hour ride, going from East Asia to Central Asia.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang is a very safe and peaceful place now and tourism is booming, thanks for the support of local people

Local villagers hunting down terrorists in Xinjiang

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## Tea addict

Well done to the Chinese government and Chinese people..make sure no human right propagandists get to visit this place.


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## beijingwalker

Local Uyghur farmers hunt down terrorists like rats, they have no place to hide. Any where they go they will be followed and reported by the locals .all the terrorists were captured

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## beijingwalker

新疆反恐宣传片2017（Xinjiang anti-terrorism propaganda film）

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## takeitwithyou

Your video above says its propaganda video.

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## beijingwalker

takeitwithyou said:


> Your video above says its propaganda video.


It is. Propaganda is not a bad word in China, it means similarly to promotion.

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## takeitwithyou

beijingwalker said:


> It is. Propaganda is not a bad word in China, it means similarly to promotion.


Propaganda is used to get masses to bend towards the CCP's opinion.


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## beijingwalker

takeitwithyou said:


> Propaganda is used to get masses to bend towards the CCP's opinion.


Same is used to Americans by US media, I lived in US for many years and the media there is very biased and general public is totally brainwashed. Actually US did a much better job brainwashing people than China. In China people know what to believe and what not to but in US people just blindly buy whatever their media tells them.

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## takeitwithyou

beijingwalker said:


> Same is used to Americans by US media, I lived in US for many years and the media there is very biased and general public is totally brainwashed. Actually US did a much better job brainwashing people than China. In China people know what to believe and what not to but in US people just blindly buy whatever their media tells them.



Everyone knows you made up that stuff. We have a free media, and we don't have paid government funded groups of online trolls.

IF as you've stated above, the Chinese people know what to believe, then why does your government ban google, facebook and international media. It tells us that your claim above is false, that the Chinese are not capable of formulating their opinion. That government knows their citizens need to be kept in the dark and brainwashed.

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## beijingwalker

takeitwithyou said:


> Everyone knows you made up that stuff. We have a free media, and we don't have paid government funded groups of online trolls.
> 
> IF as you've stated above, the Chinese people know what to believe, then why does your government ban google, facebook and international media. It tells us that your claim above is false, that the Chinese are not capable of formulating their opinion. That government knows their citizens need to be kept in the dark and brainwashed.


Free VPN is just one click away but most people don't care. I can access any sites easily here at my home in Beijing. Most Chinese people only care about Chinese sites cause foreign sites offer nothing that interests them and also not many Chinese know English well. Check youtube or google to find that most Americans are totally shocked when they first visited China cause China is totally different from what they learned in US, but Chinese people never get that surprise when they first visit US cause it exactly what they learned of US in China.

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## Godman

Pitchforks? Too bad they forgot the torches that would be a interesting sight


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## takeitwithyou

beijingwalker said:


> Free VPN is just one click away but most people don't care. I can access any sites easily here at my home in Beijing. Most Chinese people only care about Chinese sites cause foreign sites offer nothing that interests them and also not many Chinese know English well. Check youtube or google to find that most Americans are totally shocked when they first visited China cause China is totally different from what they learned in US, but Chinese people never get that surprise when they first visit US cause it exactly what they learned of US in China.



But wait! China just made VPN illegal too. 
*China Just Made It Even Harder to Get Around the Great Firewall*

Furthermore, does having to cheat via VPN not prove my claim that your government is all about brainwashing and not allowing the Chinese to opine freely?


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## AndrewJin

Free media my arse.
Murico does not own any of their media, only slaves to the corporate media.
Murico media makes murico ignorant and stupid.

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## terranMarine

AndrewJin said:


> Free media my arse.
> Murico does not own any of their media, only slaves to the corporate media.
> Murico media makes murico ignorant and stupid.



US brainwashing tool last a lifetime, only lucky ones get to wake up

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## Jlaw

terranMarine said:


> US brainwashing tool last a lifetime, only lucky ones get to wake up


the lucky ones cannot do anything about it. JFK tried and he got his head blown. America is controlled by you know who

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## TaiShang

If you want to know what the neo-fascist US media is capable of, ask Trump. He even labeled them as the greatest enemy of the US people. If a super elite white non-political establishment US president gets to say that, it must mean something. 

The closest nation getting to the US media level of agenda shaping and discourse making is the Russian media, which is a good thing. China lags terribly behind, I must say, and the reason is that China's media is over diplomatic and does unbiased reporting.

Every theory is for someone and for some purpose. 

China's media must use information like a weapon to hurt the enemy. The best way to hurt the enemy is to unmask them and create a very bad image of them in other people's mind. 

Russian media has been doing that to the US, hence, US neo-fascists, even those in the US Congress, are extremely nervous and hysterical. 

If China is going to go global via the BRI, it needs to first learn how to use information like a weapon and make sure that ends always justify means.

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## beijingwalker

Godman said:


> Pitchforks? Too bad they forgot the torches that would be a interesting sight


That's all they have , but they are not vigilantes , they have to hand over the terrorists to the government and can not lynch them.

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## NirmalKrish

beijingwalker said:


> It is. Propaganda is not a bad word in China, it means similarly to promotion.



Are you real? 

propaganda
prɒpəˈɡandə/Submit
noun
1. information, especially of a *biased or misleading nature*, used to *promote a political cause or point of view.*
"he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"
synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, advertisement, publicity, advocacy; More
2. a committee of cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church responsible for foreign missions, founded in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV.

how do you not validate that as bad?


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## Kyle Sun

takeitwithyou said:


> Propaganda is used to get masses to bend towards the CCP's opinion.


Not as propaganda as your propaganda which is bashed by your own president.

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## beijingwalker

NirmalKrish said:


> Are you real?
> 
> propaganda
> prɒpəˈɡandə/Submit
> noun
> 1. information, especially of a *biased or misleading nature*, used to *promote a political cause or point of view.*
> "he was charged with distributing enemy propaganda"
> synonyms: information, promotion, advertising, advertisement, publicity, advocacy; More
> 2. a committee of cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church responsible for foreign missions, founded in 1622 by Pope Gregory XV.
> 
> how do you not validate that as bad?


I mean the word in Chinese is not that bad, a neutral word, it's more like promotion, that's why in Chinese government we have propaganda ministry and companies have propaganda departments.

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## Kyle Sun

takeitwithyou said:


> But wait! China just made VPN illegal too.
> *China Just Made It Even Harder to Get Around the Great Firewall*
> 
> Furthermore, does having to cheat via VPN not prove my claim that your government is all about brainwashing and not allowing the Chinese to opine freely?


Yes, our gov does not allow the Chinese to opine freely whereas US gov keeps spying all your people.
That really makes you feel superior!

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## cirr

takeitwithyou said:


> Your video above says its propaganda video.



You are a living example of what Western propaganda/brainwashing can do to a person.

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## terranMarine

Jlaw said:


> the lucky ones cannot do anything about it. JFK tried and he got his head blown. America is controlled by you know who


Yes American citizens cannot defy the  government pulling the strings behind the scenes, those who woke up tend to verbally defend other countries. That's all they can do and Duterte knows his head is being targeted by xxx

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## kankan326

takeitwithyou said:


> Everyone knows you made up that stuff. We have a free media, and we don't have paid government funded groups of online trolls.
> 
> IF as you've stated above, the Chinese people know what to believe, then why does your government ban google, facebook and international media. It tells us that your claim above is false, that the Chinese are not capable of formulating their opinion. That government knows their citizens need to be kept in the dark and brainwashed.


It is US government's tradition to fund institutions or organizations as its propaganda machines to destroy its rivals. And to be honest US government is very good at it. For example, the falling of Soviet Union was partly because US successfully used propaganda tactic.

As a Chinese, I know some US funded Chinese language broadcasting, such as Free Asia, VOA.
On the youtube, there are countless anti-China(or CCP) programs.


This dude, who is addicted to bad mouthing China. "Don't love your country. Patriotism is poison. Freedom is everything."-----Shits like that









Another one

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## takeitwithyou

Kyle Sun said:


> Yes, our gov does not allow the Chinese to opine freely whereas US gov keeps spying all your people.
> That really makes you feel superior!


Are you for real, Chinese government spies on its own people, not U.S.

"Every internet service provider in China is required already to provide the authorities, if asked, with the true details of the name and Chinese identity card or foreign passport number of every person who posts any message via any social media — with anyone’s use of the internet susceptible to monitoring if needed."
*China’s all-seeing spy grid takes surveillance to new level*


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## dy1022

takeitwithyou said:


> Are you for real, Chinese government spies on its own people, not U.S.
> 
> "Every internet service provider in China is required already to provide the authorities, if asked, with the true details of the name and Chinese identity card or foreign passport number of every person who posts any message via any social media — with anyone’s use of the internet susceptible to monitoring if needed."
> *China’s all-seeing spy grid takes surveillance to new level*








Edward Snowden's story and NSA !!!

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## Kyle Sun

takeitwithyou said:


> Are you for real, Chinese government spies on its own people, not U.S.


Talk this shit to Snowden.

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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang is a very safe and peaceful place now and tourism is booming, thanks for the support of local people
> 
> Local villagers hunting down terrorists in Xinjiang


It also shows how much the local people hate terrorists, terrorists kill indiscriminately, they killed more Uyghurs than Hans in Xinjiang. When they do the attacks ,they never care if you are a Han, a Uyghur, a Muslim or non Muslim, same as you can see in attacks in Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Turkey... they just want to do the butchering, they greatly threaten the livelihood and families of the local people. That's why you can see so much hate among the local people.

Terrorism can't survive in China, cause terrorists soon discover that Chinese government can inflicted much more terror on terrorists than terrorists on people.

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## Place Of Space

kankan326 said:


> It is US government's tradition to fund institutions or organizations as its propaganda machines to destroy its rivals. And to be honest US government is very good at it. For example, the fall of Soviet Union was partly because US successfully used propaganda tactic.
> 
> As a Chinese, I know some US funded Chinese broadcasts, such as Free Asia, VOA.
> On the youtube, there are countless anti-China(or CCP) programs.
> 
> 
> This dude, who is addicted to bad mouthing China. "Don't love your country. Patriotism is poison. Freedom is everything."-----Shits like that
> View attachment 400470
> 
> 
> View attachment 400471
> 
> Another one



Anyway, they get jobs in America. They can fool themselves and American but we don't need to pay for their work, awesome.
Back to topic, so far China still have paid too much attention to terrorists. We should learn from Philippines, allow them to accumulate and organize big movement, then it's possible to massively destroy them.

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## takeitwithyou

Kyle Sun said:


> Talk this shit to Snowden.


LOL Snowden. He proved what? The CCP on the other hand watches and determines every part of your life. They are now going to force a social score system on every Chinese. 
"The Chinese government is building an omnipotent "social credit" system that is meant to rate each citizen's trustworthiness.
By 2020, everyone in China will be enrolled in a vast national database that compiles fiscal and government information, including minor traffic violations, and distils it into a single number ranking each citizen."
*China 'social credit': Beijing sets up huge system*


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## Kyle Sun

takeitwithyou said:


> LOL Snowden. He proved what?


You are god damn right. Snowden proved nothing .that is why your saint gov sucked on him like crazy.

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## takeitwithyou

Kyle Sun said:


> You are god damn right. Snowden proved nothing .that is why your saint gov sucked on him like crazy.



I see you have now moved on from your original contention. We went after Snowden for separate reasons aka leaking secret state dept cables and not for what you'd claimed. China tells its people what they can read, how to behave, what they can watch, and brainwashes through a propaganda machine as discussed in this thread.


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## Beast

takeitwithyou said:


> LOL Snowden. He proved what? The CCP on the other hand watches and determines every part of your life. They are now going to force a social score system on every Chinese.
> "The Chinese government is building an omnipotent "social credit" system that is meant to rate each citizen's trustworthiness.
> By 2020, everyone in China will be enrolled in a vast national database that compiles fiscal and government information, including minor traffic violations, and distils it into a single number ranking each citizen."
> *China 'social credit': Beijing sets up huge system*


Snowden proves everything. He is an insider CIA contractor who works in the heart of CIA evil. His conscience tells him what the CIA doing is inhuman. As a great human being, he decide to let off the truth. We all shall salute him.

CPC Is the next great Chinese government. They raise the standard of living for all Chinese citizen. Ensure everybody has education, food and equal opportunities unlike India which is a failed democracy countries with poor living condition, filthy roads. Many Indian now still cannot have proper education. GDP per Indian is even worst off than some Africa countries.

What a shame! If you ask millions of Dalit in Indian where they want to live. They will not hesitate to pick China than India.

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## rott

For the eyes of brainwashed fools only....

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## AViet

takeitwithyou said:


> Everyone knows you made up that stuff. We have a free media, and we don't have paid government funded groups of online trolls.
> 
> IF as you've stated above, the Chinese people know what to believe, then why does your government ban google, facebook and international media. It tells us that your claim above is false, that the Chinese are not capable of formulating their opinion. That government knows their citizens need to be kept in the dark and brainwashed.



Brainwashing IQ95 people is far more easier than brainwashing 105IQ people, I believe.

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## AndrewJin

AViet said:


> Brainwashing IQ95 people is far more easier than brainwashing 105IQ people, I believe.


Both IQ95 people and IQ82 people in two supa powas of the world are very easy to be brainwashed.
Trummodip effect

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## yantong1980

Don't let scum like takeitwithyou derailed this topic, let him believe what he believed, he wasn't Chinese and from his comment show he doesn't want understand either. So what the heck, continue discussion...

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## beijingwalker

Nowhere to hide, live and being killed like rats

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## LowPost

Don't waste your time with NWO (or OWO as in an article posted by @Sinopakfriend) shills like takeitwithyou, lads.

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## nang2

This is something Americans never understand and something I truly admire Chinese communists about. Despite all the mistakes they have made, they always know that, without popular support, there would be no lasting peace and social stability, let alone political power. Popular means people.

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## faithfulguy

beijingwalker said:


> Local Uyghur farmers hunt down terrorists like rats, they have no place to hide. Any where they go they will be followed and reported by the locals .all the terrorists were captured



America should deal with terror like how China is dealing with them. No mercy. Exterminate them like the vermin they are. They have no rights to kill innocents.



beijingwalker said:


> Same is used to Americans by US media, I lived in US for many years and the media there is very biased and general public is totally brainwashed. Actually US did a much better job brainwashing people than China. In China people know what to believe and what not to but in US people just blindly buy whatever their media tells them.



I'm in America and I'm sorry to say that I agree completely. It's either Fox News or the CNN/MSNBC nut jobs. Total lack of objective journalism or journalists like Walter Cronkite.

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## Kyle Sun

takeitwithyou said:


> We went after Snowden for separate reasons aka leaking secret state dept cables and not for what you'd claimed.



If Snowden were not enough, I would introduce Mr Assange to you.
He really has brought the prestige of USA Gov to an incredible level. I believe you two can have a very nice discussion on this topic.

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## takeitwithyou

Kyle Sun said:


> If Snowden were not enough, I would introduce Mr Assange to you.
> He really has brought the prestige of USA Gov to an incredible level. I believe you two can have a very nice discussion on this topic.


Do you realize you keep trying to throw names at me, but none compare to how your government treats you? You are told what you can read, watch and how to behave from the cradle to the grave.

I'm done debating you; you just keep trucking along all the same. Bye


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## Dungeness

takeitwithyou said:


> Do you realize you keep trying to throw names at me, but none compare to how your government treats you? You are told what you can read, watch and how to behave from the cradle to the grave.
> 
> I'm done debating you; you just keep trucking along all the same. Bye



The only thing that is worse than being brainwashed is believing you are immune to all brainwashing.

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## AViet

Dungeness said:


> The only thing that is worse than being brainwashed is believing you are immune to all brainwashing.



This American guy claims things exactly like a typical Indian on this forum, like "your government told what information you can read". Guess it come from a IQ82 American.

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## TaiShang

Kashgar residents dance in one of the city's public squares. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY

*Ramadan tests self-discipline of Muslims in Kashgar, but provides a festival atmosphere for tourists*

Turdigul Ali sat staring up at a clock hanging on a wall in her brother's house in Kashgar, Xinjiang Province, on June 12. She was waiting for it to reach 10:30 pm, so she could perform a short prayer and bring an end to her daylong fast.

It was something the 35-year-old Muslim had repeated every day since May 27 during Ramadan－a holy month of fasting observed by some Muslims. Those who fast are not allowed to consume any form of food or beverage during daylight hours. The end of Ramadan will be marked in Xinjiang by the festival of fast-breaking on Monday.

Turdigul's brother's house sits on the edge of a 40-meter-tall loess platform and overlooks the Tuman River.






Women wear colorful scarves in the old town of Kashgar. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY

It is a traditional Uygur residential area known as the high platform neighborhood, which has a history of more than 1,000 years and is a landmark of Kashgar's old town that currently has more than 220,000 residents. Most of them are Uygurs and a large number are Muslim.

The loess, which formed the platform, is also the raw material Turdigul's brother, Aniwar Ali, who is a pottery craftsman, uses to make traditional Uygur bowls and jugs, which are popular among tourists.

Although the 50-year-old doesn't work at his kiln during Ramadan, his business is as popular as always.





The "high-platform neighborhood" is one of the city's major tourist attractions. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY

"Many people have asked me why I don't make pottery during this month and I always patiently explain to them about fasting," said Aniwar, who has been learning the craft since he was just 7 years old.

Aniwar and Turdigul were the only members of their family who chose to fast this year, because their 75-year-old mother had been unwell and their spouses had to take care of their young children.

As Turdigul was enjoying her fast-breaking meal on June 12, Aniwar's daughter, Nazera Aniwar, 7, excitedly tried on the new dresses her mother had just bought her for the fast-breaking festival.





Naan bread is a popular staple in the region. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY

Many visitors were drawn to the old town after it was renovated, and it became one of China's top tourist destinations in 2015 due to the preservation of Uygur architecture and lifestyle.

Dawut Shawut, 36, was born and raised in the old town. He earns a living by showing visitors the alleyways and bazaars of the old town on his horse-drawn cart.

He always waits at the entrance of the old town while visitors watch a daily welcoming ceremony featuring traditional Uygur music and dances at 10:30 am. There has been no exception during Ramadan, because it is also the peak season for tourism in Kashgar.





A woman prepares dinner for her family during Ramadan. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY

It is still open during Ramadan, but it is obviously much quieter because many of the regulars need to fast.

Abudulrehman Tash, 60, decided not to fast this year for personal reasons, and carried on the routines of socializing with his friends in the teahouse every Tuesday at 2 pm.

"Fasting, or not, is a personal choice. People in the old town will not judge you for that," Abudulrehman said.

The teahouse is just a few minutes' walk from Xinjiang's biggest mosque, Id Kah. Thousands of Muslims from the old town flood into the mosque for jumah－Friday prayers－at 3:30 pm during Ramadan.





Two women shop at a bazaar. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY

People start to gather around 2 pm and soon long lines are formed. They all wait orderly and quietly to gain entrance to the mosque for prayer.

Although the food market opposite Id Kah may seem quiet in the daytime during Ramadan, it certainly comes to life when daily fasting is over.

People flock to the market, which specializes in traditional Uygur cuisine.

The locals are spoiled for choice, with a vast variety of food including barbecue lamb kebabs and spicy lamb feet. The food market is then turned into a big fast-breaking party around midnight.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-06/23/content_29853799_8.htm

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## dy1022

TaiShang said:


> Kashgar residents dance in one of the city's public squares. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY
> 
> *Ramadan tests self-discipline of Muslims in Kashgar, but provides a festival atmosphere for tourists*
> 
> Turdigul Ali sat staring up at a clock hanging on a wall in her brother's house in Kashgar, Xinjiang Province, on June 12. She was waiting for it to reach 10:30 pm, so she could perform a short prayer and bring an end to her daylong fast.
> 
> It was something the 35-year-old Muslim had repeated every day since May 27 during Ramadan－a holy month of fasting observed by some Muslims. Those who fast are not allowed to consume any form of food or beverage during daylight hours. The end of Ramadan will be marked in Xinjiang by the festival of fast-breaking on Monday.
> 
> Turdigul's brother's house sits on the edge of a 40-meter-tall loess platform and overlooks the Tuman River.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women wear colorful scarves in the old town of Kashgar. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY
> 
> It is a traditional Uygur residential area known as the high platform neighborhood, which has a history of more than 1,000 years and is a landmark of Kashgar's old town that currently has more than 220,000 residents. Most of them are Uygurs and a large number are Muslim.
> 
> The loess, which formed the platform, is also the raw material Turdigul's brother, Aniwar Ali, who is a pottery craftsman, uses to make traditional Uygur bowls and jugs, which are popular among tourists.
> 
> Although the 50-year-old doesn't work at his kiln during Ramadan, his business is as popular as always.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "high-platform neighborhood" is one of the city's major tourist attractions. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY
> 
> "Many people have asked me why I don't make pottery during this month and I always patiently explain to them about fasting," said Aniwar, who has been learning the craft since he was just 7 years old.
> 
> Aniwar and Turdigul were the only members of their family who chose to fast this year, because their 75-year-old mother had been unwell and their spouses had to take care of their young children.
> 
> As Turdigul was enjoying her fast-breaking meal on June 12, Aniwar's daughter, Nazera Aniwar, 7, excitedly tried on the new dresses her mother had just bought her for the fast-breaking festival.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Naan bread is a popular staple in the region. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY
> 
> Many visitors were drawn to the old town after it was renovated, and it became one of China's top tourist destinations in 2015 due to the preservation of Uygur architecture and lifestyle.
> 
> Dawut Shawut, 36, was born and raised in the old town. He earns a living by showing visitors the alleyways and bazaars of the old town on his horse-drawn cart.
> 
> He always waits at the entrance of the old town while visitors watch a daily welcoming ceremony featuring traditional Uygur music and dances at 10:30 am. There has been no exception during Ramadan, because it is also the peak season for tourism in Kashgar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A woman prepares dinner for her family during Ramadan. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY
> 
> It is still open during Ramadan, but it is obviously much quieter because many of the regulars need to fast.
> 
> Abudulrehman Tash, 60, decided not to fast this year for personal reasons, and carried on the routines of socializing with his friends in the teahouse every Tuesday at 2 pm.
> 
> "Fasting, or not, is a personal choice. People in the old town will not judge you for that," Abudulrehman said.
> 
> The teahouse is just a few minutes' walk from Xinjiang's biggest mosque, Id Kah. Thousands of Muslims from the old town flood into the mosque for jumah－Friday prayers－at 3:30 pm during Ramadan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Two women shop at a bazaar. ZOU HONG/CHINA DAILY
> 
> People start to gather around 2 pm and soon long lines are formed. They all wait orderly and quietly to gain entrance to the mosque for prayer.
> 
> Although the food market opposite Id Kah may seem quiet in the daytime during Ramadan, it certainly comes to life when daily fasting is over.
> 
> People flock to the market, which specializes in traditional Uygur cuisine.
> 
> The locals are spoiled for choice, with a vast variety of food including barbecue lamb kebabs and spicy lamb feet. The food market is then turned into a big fast-breaking party around midnight.
> 
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-06/23/content_29853799_8.htm






A lot of great foods in there, must try it in lifetime


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## yantong1980

Not know much about Xinjiang cuisines, but their grapes and Hami melon look delicious. I know their moslem teaching forbid alcoholic drinks, but did their also cultivated wine grapes?


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## cirr

*China completes Beijing-Xinjiang desert freeway sections*

2017-07-16 13:07

Xinhua _Editor: Yao Lan_





Photo taken on July 14, 2017 shows the Jingxin Expressway (G7) in Bayan Nur City, north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region. The Jingxin Expressway links Beijing, capital of China, and Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Deng Hua)

Three new sections of freeway, mostly in desert areas, were put into use on Saturday, marking the completion of a freeway between Beijing and northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

*The three sections in Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, Gansu Province and Xinjiang have a combined length of more than 1,200 km, bringing the total length of the Beijing-Xinjiang freeway to about 2,768 km.*

"The Beijing-Xinjiang freeway is the most convenient road passage connecting Beijing with northwest Inner Mongolia, northern Gansu, and Xinjiang," said Ren Jinxiong, an official with the Ministry of Transport.

With a length of 930 km, the Inner Mongolia section is the longest freeway project in China. The Gansu section is 134 km long and the Xinjiang section is 178 km long.

The three sections are mostly located in deserts with poor natural conditions and little water, posing a challenge to the road builders.

The Beijing-Xinjiang freeway is one of seven freeways connecting the national capital with other major cities, according to a national freeway plan.

By the end of 2016, China had 131,000 km of freeways in operation, more than any other country.

http://www.ecns.cn/2017/07-16/265554.shtml

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Experts want the government to reconsider diverting water from Tibet to parched northern regions, but disagreements remain strong due to the huge cost and possible environmental damage.

Around 20 scholars met outside Urumqi in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region over the last weekend of July, and discussed the feasibility of diverting water from the heights of the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau to Xinjiang's lowland plains, one of the attendees revealed.

"Water from rivers such as the Yarlung Zangbo River can help turn the vast deserts and arid lands into oasis and farmlands, alleviate population pressure in the east, as well as reduce flood risks in the counties through which the river travels downstream," Ren Qunluo, professor at the Xinjiang University of Finance and Economics, told the Global Times.

"Xinjiang has 1.1 million square kilometers of plains, equal in size to all the plains in the country's east. But less than 70,000 square kilometers are arable due to a shortage of water," he noted. "If all these plains are greened, another China will have been created."

The dream of massive water diversions from soaking-wet Southwest China to the thirsty north has been on the minds of engineers and scholars for decades.

But some say this dream could be a nightmare of environmental damage, and these concerns mean the plateau-to-plain project has never been approved.

However pro-diversion experts are now trying to rally support for the idea.

He Xinglin, a construction engineer and investment consultant who has long supported diverting water from the Tibet Autonomous Region to Xinjiang and the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, says that social conditions are not yet ripe as the public may not accept this plan.

However, he noted that "if approved, the project, combined with the Belt & Road initiative, will become a major engine to pull China and the world out of economic difficulties."

*Pricey plan*

To some experts these dreams are rather fanciful.

Mei Xinyu, an associate researcher at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, told the Global Times that he has recently tried to persuade friends visiting from Xinjiang to abandon any idea of "transforming nature."

"The project will likely bring calamity to the country. I firmly oppose it," Mei told the Global Times. "The construction of the Grand Canal connecting Beijing in the north and Zhejiang Province in the south led to the downfall of the Sui Dynasty (581-618). We should learn their lesson."

Geng Changsheng from Shiyan, Central China's Hubei Province, started to study water diversion and publish his ideas online in 2014. According to his proposed plan, a 1,400-kilometer long tunnel would be built connecting the Southwest's Pengqu, Yarlung Zangbo and Lhasa rivers to Northwest China's Taklimakan Desert, which covers over 330,000 square kilometers.

The plan has drawn lots of support, including from Ren. But Geng admits the whole project would cost an estimated 1.1 trillion yuan ($163.69 billion) and take at least 20 years to finish.

Mei says that Xinjiang cannot afford this project. "The region's GDP last year was only 900 billion yuan. But its expenditure was almost five times its income. It depends massively on central government subsidies and the assistance of local governments in other parts of China," Mei explained.

Ren thinks that these worries are overblown. "China is facing industrial overcapacity. The project will help stimulate the economy. Besides, the yearly cost would be small compared to the country's total revenue," he explained.

Geng argued that financing can also be raised through sponsorships and the sale of leases on future arable land.

But these economic reassurances do little to relax those whose concerns are environmental. Liu Shukun, a professor at the China Institute of Water Resources and Hydropower Research says he doesn't support the proposed project as it could "possibly lead to changes to the ecology in both Tibet and Xinjiang."

"We now advocate an 'ecological civilization.' Human beings, wildlife and the greater environment are all equal. We shouldn't seek to satisfy our own interests at the cost of ecological destruction," he noted.

Geng argues that humans have always transformed nature and Ren claims that the greening of the desert will increase biodiversity.

*An old idea*

The idea of sending Tibetan water to Xinjiang dates back to the late 1950s. March into the Desert, a famous work by meteorologist, geologist and educator Zhu Kezhen (1890-1974) that has long featured in Chinese schoolbooks, advises diverting water to Xinjiang's arid plains.

The plan to divert water from Tibet to northern parts of China, known as the Grand Western Water Diversion Plan, was heatedly discussed in the 1990s. Over the decade, 208 lawmakers and 118 political advisers raised proposals and motions on the plan, according to a 2006 report by the Southern Weekly.

Guo Kai, a self-taught hydrologist, is one of many experts who have spoken in favor of the project. "*So much of the water of the Yarlung Zangbo runs out of China, it's a huge waste*," said Guo, who has been pushing his own design for the project since the 1980s.

His proposal to divert 200 billion cubic meters of water every year and send it to North and Northwest China through tunnels and pipelines has received wide support from military officers, including 118 major generals or above.

In 1999, with the support of central leaders, a team of scholars specializing water resources, climate, geology and civil engineering, including Guo, launched a 36-day investigation trip to the related area and came up with a positive report.

However, it faced a backlash from many other experts and officials, including Wang Sucheng, the then minister of the Ministry of Water Resources, who told the media the plan was unnecessary, unscientific and unfeasible.

Wang Hao, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, and Xu Daoyi from the China Earthquake Administration, also opposed building high dams and tunnels in lofty mountains vulnerable to natural disasters.

Opposition has also come from other countries. The Indian Minister of State for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh said in 2010 that New Delhi would not accept any plan to divert the Yarlung Zangbo, according to The Hindu newspaper. The river runs through China, India and Bangladesh and is also known as the Brahmaputra.

China's decision-makers have left the plan stranded. However, discussions can still be found regularly.

Wang Guangqian, a hydrologist and academician at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, proposes building canals and pipelines along the Qinghai-Tibet railway to divert water from the Yarlung Zangbo.

"[We] thought this wouldn't happen for 50 years but it is necessary now," Wang was quoted as saying by the First Financial Daily in 2011, citing China's growing demand for water, increasing desertification and shrinking groundwater reserves in North China.

Geng believes the route his diversions would take dodge the "earthquake belt."

If a huge amount of water is diverted to Xinjiang and much of the region is turned into arable land, it could be a driver of precipitation in other northern parts of China, helping to dampen these dry regions, he said. Moreover, all the extra plant life that will grow will help fight global warming, he added.

Geng regularly shares his ideas online and sends letters to the government, hoping decision-makers reconsider the plan.

Ren recently set up a WeChat group to gather pro-diversion netizens together. They exchange ideas and suggestions on how to improve the plan and how it can be realized.

*Significance and side effects*

Chen Chuanyou, a water resource expert at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, believes diverting water from Tibet to the north will help guarantee the realization of the "Chinese dream."

"It's needed to prepare for drought. Though it seems that we don't lack water now, we need to nip shortages in the bud," Chen told the Global Times, citing that 10 massive droughts happened in North China from the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) to the Republic of China (1912-1949) period, claiming tens of thousands of lives each time.

However, he doesn't think it is feasible to transform deserts that have existed for millions of years into farmland or forest. "The project would be too huge and the outcome is unpredictable."

He proposes building tunnels and pipelines to connect rives such as the Yarlung Zangbo and the Nujiang to the Yangtze River, which would then allow the flow of water north through the middle route of the South to North Water Diversion Project.

As for the reaction of downriver countries, both Chen and Ren believe their worries can be solved through diplomacy. "The areas the Yarlung Zangbo runs into are rich in rainfall. We could only divert water in the rainy season. The project can help control floods in those countries," Ren said.

In addition, experts say the impact of diverting water from the river's upper reaches will be small. According to the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the natural surface runoff of the Yarlung Zangbo is 828 billion cubic meters per year, of which only 14.61 percent is produced in China.

Geng believes that diverting water to Xinjiang will help attract people to move there from densely-populated and poverty-stricken areas, which will promote stability.

However, Mei says that the huge cost of the project may increase the tax burden on citizens in coastal areas and cause public anger, which will trigger social instability.

Whatever the future benefits or pitfalls of the project, some people are already using it to make money flow into their pockets.

In 2015, the Xinjiang-based Korla Evening Post reported police had busted several cases in which crooks faked documents and seals in the name of a State-funded water diversion project and cheated hundreds of people across the country who wanted to get involved.

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201708111056366357-scholars-project-water-tibet-xinjiang/

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

*For those who ever think this project is too costly, wait until they desperately need the water for their children, they will have to forced to pay 1000$ or 10000$ for a bottle of water, if that moment arrive then they will regret not to take this project seriously...for me it's the golden opportunity to divert water to Xinjiang and prepare our future.*

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## Jlaw

No they won't do it. But good troll thread.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> No they won't do it. But good troll thread.



Wait until the critical moment arrive, either do it or die.

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Wait until the critical moment arrive, either do it or die.


I Know Chinese government too well. They won't do it to offend India.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> I Know Chinese government too well. They won't do it to offend India.



Are we still thinking of this none trustworthy India? save our a$$ first.

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## j20611

China should do it. Indians can choke on that

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Are we still thinking of this none trustworthy India? save our a$$ first.


Come on. History have shown time and time again China will not do this . They will wait until India become strong as them before they do anything. It's a failed mindset. Let's make the enemy strong than attack them or most likely let them attack China first.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Come on. History have shown time and time again China will not do this . They will wait until India become strong as them before they do anything. It's a failed mindset. Let's make the enemy strong than attack them or most likely let them attack China first.



Yes as Donglan affaire before they woke up

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Yes as Donglan affaire before they woke up


Donglang was a **** up by CPC. No armed troops present in that area? Had there been troops present, Indian troops would not be hugging with Chinese border guards.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> Donglang was a **** up by CPC. No armed troops present in that area? Had there been troops present, Indian troops would not be hugging with Chinese border guards.



There is a lot of unknown factors that hold them back from confronting India, we should not take war so lightly, let the government plot the solution, don't be as 皇帝不急太监急, just relaxe

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> There is a lot on unknown factors that hold them back from confronting India, we should not take war so lightly, let the government plot the solution, don't be as 皇帝不急太监急, just relaxe


What I'm saying is no heavy armed troops in the Donglang before the incident is either a short-sighted or miscalculation fro PLA

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> What I'm saying is no heavy armed troops in the Donglang before the incident is either a short-sighted or miscalculation fro PLA



Initially the government want to have border peace with India so they can concentrate on dealing with US and Japan but now India expose it true color, it's better come soon than later...nothing has lost yet.

Back to the thread, the government should seriously consider this project, we can revive our lost city such Loulan with plenty of water

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Initially the government want to have border peace with India so they can concentrate on dealing with US and Japan but now India expose it true color, it's better come soon than later...nothing has lost yet.
> 
> Back to the thread, the government should seriously consider this project, we can revive our lost city such Loulan with plenty of water


It's almost laughable. India have been a thorn in China's buttfor decades, but China government think India would favor China. Don't they see the geopolitical moves against China?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> It's almost laughable. India have been a thorn in China's buttfor decades, but China government think India would favor China. Don't they see the geopolitical moves against China?



You really think that Chinese government is so naïve and not realize India's plot and intention all these years? we all know that India is doing a lot of infrastructure at the border and China want to send a clear message to India with road construction in DongLang that we can hold Indian hostage over their strategic vulnerability such as Chicken neck but we didn't expected that panicking Indian army to move in, we could have annihilated those trespassing our border as we massacred those Viets army in Johnson reef to stand on our way in 1988 but China chose not to do so.

as French saying " la nuit porte conseil", we don't need to rush into some actions that we will regret it later, just let the government to find the best solution for our nation interest, if war is the answer...then so be it.

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## Place Of Space

How to carry out this old idea? Digging canal can hardly relieve North West's arid.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Place Of Space said:


> How to carry out this old idea? Digging canal can hardly relieve North West's arid.



Under ground canal or underground artificial lake to prevent water vaporized such as this to prevent people from mis-used it, see the water is so clean.

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## +4vsgorillas-Apebane

Do it!

If not utilised it just flow out to sea and wasted. Even if just a fraction of the project works out it will be worth it. 

It won't affect the Indians....

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## Jlaw

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Under ground canal or underground artificial lake to prevent water vaporized such as this to prevent people from mis-used it, see the water is so clean.


If China was serious about this why not dam up Brahmaputra River and divert water to the north? You can dry up north India by doing that

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Jlaw said:


> If China was serious about this why not dam up Brahmaputra River and divert water to the north? You can dry up north India by doing that



the South North water transfer was first proposed by Mao but few decades that Northern part of China is critical shortage of water and the government is decisive to fix this problem. Xinjiang will be the same if water become an issue, Chinese government will have to face the turmoil and unrest, whether they like or not, they will have to fix the water issue of this region.

With the development of manufacturing, population growth in Xinjiang, we need more water than ever, the growth is not sustainable without adequate water supply so it's clear for me that China will not give up our nation interest just for the sake of India, project feasibility is the first step then we will fallow the path of South North water transfer project to bring water to the north...so personally I think China has no choice but to be serious or the government will be on big big trouble, a region of 15 to 20 millions peoples without water...you think the government can sit idle?

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## axisofevil

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Initially the government want to have border peace with India so they can concentrate on dealing with US and Japan but now India expose it true color, it's better come soon than later...nothing has lost yet.
> 
> Back to the thread, the government should seriously consider this project, we can revive our lost city such Loulan with plenty of water




China exposed it true colors when you armed Pakistan with nukes, missiles, support terrorism, etc. This is the real China.....stop trying to mislead yourself you fool.


You are continuing to force India's hand.... by your actions and your actions only. 


Let China Play with the water.....just hope the tunnels, canals, etc don't come down to some "natural disaster"......

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

axisofevil said:


> China exposed it true colors when you armed Pakistan with nukes, missiles, support terrorism, etc. This is the real China.....stop trying to mislead yourself you fool.
> 
> 
> You are continuing to force India's hand.... by your actions and your actions only.
> 
> 
> Let China Play with the water.....just hope the tunnels, canals, etc don't come down to some "natural disaster"......



Armed Pakistan with Nuke?  now you Indians just expose your biggest lie, India wants Nuke to counter China's nuke and Pakistan want nuke to counter India's nuke...it's domino effect...and you blame us, Pakistan also have A bomb father too unless you claim that Indians scientists are only intelligent people on earth, you think by making false accusation then we will feel guilty? surely not 

You guys are the first to harbor our separatist Dalai Lama in 1959 to provoke us first but claim that he is GOD love priest and a peace loving idol and expect to get away with that but when we support Masood you accuse us of support terrorism, you can just make you own double standard definition, we don't give a jack.

We're not even afraid of play with fire and we're scare of water? c'mon  as long as you guys shut your mouth on how we're playing with our water...everything will be fine and your opinions regarding our water doesn't matter anyway

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## AUSTERLITZ

Jlaw said:


> If China was serious about this why not dam up Brahmaputra River and divert water to the north? You can dry up north India by doing that



North India doesn't depend on brahmaputra,it depends on ganga ,yamuna and indus tributaries.Brahmaputra affects only the state of assam and parts of north east and mostly bangladesh for which it is the main river.So go ahead,assam will suffer a bit but bangladesh will suffer most.It will also give us the excuse to stop indus water and mess up pakistan your ally,which is totally dependant on it for survival.Ofcourse you will get massive heat in international arena for purposeful damming.Essentially its china's choice -does it want India as a permanent enemy or not.If india does become china's permanent enemy it is the end of the chinese dream because even chinese economy will not be able to handle arms race with japan,usa and india at once,nor expand due to containment from all sides.Like how we sabotaged your expansion attempt into south asia through OBOR.And the gap between us will only decrease with time.Or china can stop its geopolitical needling and be a responsible power everyone can respect and not as a cheap wannabe bully with more bark than bite.Ultimately confrontation between india and china only helps the west,but what can be done?China insists on hegemony rather than partnership.

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## Jlaw

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Ofcourse you will get massive heat in international arena for purposeful damming.


Incorrect as there is no water treaties anywhere in the world.

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## jetray

Another nonsense from paid CPC trolls, seems CPC is becoming desperate day by day that their intimidation and black mail tactics are falling apart. China has already done enough harm to India that there is nothing much to lose. 

Next these idiots will say they will move mount Everest and invade India. Enough of these cheap tricks.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

AUSTERLITZ said:


> North India doesn't depend on brahmaputra,it depends on ganga ,yamuna and indus tributaries.Brahmaputra affects only the state of assam and parts of north east and mostly bangladesh for which it is the main river.So go ahead,assam will suffer a bit but bangladesh will suffer most.It will also give us the excuse to stop indus water and mess up pakistan your ally,which is totally dependant on it for survival.Ofcourse you will get massive heat in international arena for purposeful damming.Essentially its china's choice -does it want India as a permanent enemy or not.If india does become china's permanent enemy it is the end of the chinese dream because even chinese economy will not be able to handle arms race with japan,usa and india at once,nor expand due to containment from all sides.Like how we sabotaged your expansion attempt into south asia through OBOR.And the gap between us will only decrease with time.Or china can stop its geopolitical needling and be a responsible power everyone can respect and not as a cheap wannabe bully with more bark than bite.



Stop Indus water?  and you guys gonna facing Pakistan's wrath and we can stop you from the head river of Indus to avenge our Pakistani friend.

India has zero leverage on our economy regardless if it's friend or enemy, Indians just like to make pretentious claim as we're dependent on them.



jetray said:


> Another nonsense from paid CPC trolls, seems CPC is becoming desperate day by day that their intimidation and black mail tactics are falling apart. China has already done enough harm to India that there is nothing much to lose.
> 
> Next these idiots will say they will move mount Everest and invade India. Enough of these cheap tricks.



 Sure you have nothing more to lose...just ask your government to shut up over how we manage our water in our territory and don't play as drama queen...that's what we ask.

And it's not bad idea, next we will move mountain and let Monson pass to China side , that's the 2nd phase of Chinese water policy in Tibet.



Jlaw said:


> Incorrect as there is no water treaties anywhere in the world.



India beg us to sign water treaty, we gave them middle finger

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

jetray said:


> you ppl are the one who brought the matter up and discussing like loonies among yourselves.
> you ppl post the article and then start self replying to it like sassy girls.
> We dont care to give a damn piss about chinese plans or their military.



I just brought the matter to our brother attention to save our 70,000 square miles of desert land, we want to see a green North west China and revive our old lost city such Loulan with Tibet water, you Indian like fly so attractive to dung that something are not even concern you.



Guynextdoor2 said:


> that's why everyone calls you a shit country. No one 'owns' rivers.



Don't be a Drama queen, admire and envy our achievement, the river is effectively under our control, come to claim it if you dare

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## kempe

I read this answer on Quora sometime back, posting here. 

This myth is pure fear mongering with zero facts to support it.Reasons being:
*(1) Very small proportion of water in transboundary rivers of India come from Tibet.*

Tibet is climatologically a barren cold plateau. It receives between 4 to 12 inches of precipitation depending on time and place. Water efflux in these rivers ,from Tibet, is very low and you could cross Brahmaputra in Tibet without getting your knees wet in most of the places, and in winter when Brahmaputra enters India it is practically dry. This is not just a theoretical. It is supported by hydrological data.

Page 29: https://www.iucn.org/sites/dev/f...






Brahmaputra enters India just after Tsela Dzong. After this point it it goes into 16.8m/km steep fall before entering India and creating a gorge in the process. Of the 19800 Cumecs average discharge of Brahmaputra, water from China account for less than 500 Cumecs.

Thus there is not much water for China to divert, and it would hardly affect river flow of Brahmaputra.

*(2) Geography.*

Tibet is intermontane high altitude plateau between Himalaya and Kulun shan mountain range. This has resulted in interesting geography as in Tibet is cut from India and China ,both, by high mountains. Before Tibetan railway, only way to access Tibet by vehicles was Highway219 which passes through Aksai Chin. Apart from that Tibet is formed by flexing of Eurasian plate upward due to compressive force exerted by Indian plate on Eurasian plate. This has resulted in a topography where central Tibet has highest average elevation of the plateau. Any water diversion project, would not only have to cut through mountains or use existing rivers, but would also has to flow against gradient ie pumped.










These two factor make diversion of water of Brahmaputra, inconsequential. I have not even talked about Indus, because just north of Indus lay Gangdise mountain, through which China has to tunnel to transfer whatever measly amount of water it could transfer.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

kempe said:


> I read this answer on Quora sometime back, posting here.
> 
> This myth is pure fear mongering with zero facts to support it.Reasons being:
> *(1) Very small proportion of water in transboundary rivers of India come from Tibet.*
> 
> Tibet is climatologically a barren cold plateau. It receives between 4 to 12 inches of precipitation depending on time and place. Water efflux in these rivers ,from Tibet, is very low and you could cross Brahmaputra in Tibet without getting your knees wet in most of the places, and in winter when Brahmaputra enters India it is practically dry. This is not just a theoretical. It is supported by hydrological data.
> 
> Page 29: https://www.iucn.org/sites/dev/f...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brahmaputra enters India just after Tsela Dzong. After this point it it goes into 16.8m/km steep fall before entering India and creating a gorge in the process. Of the 19800 Cumecs average discharge of Brahmaputra, water from China account for less than 500 Cumecs.
> 
> Thus there is not much water for China to divert, and it would hardly affect river flow of Brahmaputra.
> 
> *(2) Geography.*
> 
> Tibet is intermontane high altitude plateau between Himalaya and Kulun shan mountain range. This has resulted in interesting geography as in Tibet is cut from India and China ,both, by high mountains. Before Tibetan railway, only way to access Tibet by vehicles was Highway219 which passes through Aksai Chin. Apart from that Tibet is formed by flexing of Eurasian plate upward due to compressive force exerted by Indian plate on Eurasian plate. This has resulted in a topography where central Tibet has highest average elevation of the plateau. Any water diversion project, would not only have to cut through mountains or use existing rivers, but would also has to flow against gradient ie pumped.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These two factor make diversion of water of Brahmaputra, inconsequential. I have not even talked about Indus, because just north of Indus lay Gangdise mountain, through which China has to tunnel to transfer whatever measly amount of water it could transfer.



Good for India , if Indians can lowering their fear about our water activities...it is a good thing, Tibet is like sponge with a lot of water that we need for our arid north west, with mega watt of electricity generated by Dams in Tibet, we can pump all water we need against gradient as you state...we will manage to deliver water to Xinjiang for sure.

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## Guynextdoor2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I just brought the matter to our brother attention to save our 70,000 square miles of desert land, we want to see a green North west China and revive our old lost city such Loulan with Tibet water, you Indian like fly so attractive to dung that something are not even concern you.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be a Drama queen, admire and envy our achievement, the river is effectively under our control, come to claim it if you dare



We can do that with river systems in Pak but we don't, even in war because we're mature.

As for your river systems are concerned...you will talk a lot and do nothing. Typical Chinese project. First try to finish OBOR properly, looks like you and many countries are about to go bankrupt well before it starts.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Good for India , if Indians can lowering their fear about our water activities...it is a good thing, Tibet is like sponge with a lot of water that we need for our arid north west, with mega watt of electricity generated by Dams in Tibet, we can pump all water we need against gradient as you state...we will manage to deliver water to Xinjiang for sure.



no...we're not 'coweing in fear' or anything. We're used to you people talking about these projects, and failing to do anything as usual.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Guynextdoor2 said:


> We can do that with river systems in Pak but we don't, even in war because we're mature.
> 
> As for your river systems are concerned...you will talk a lot and do nothing. Typical Chinese project. First try to finish OBOR properly, looks like you and many countries are about to go bankrupt well before it starts.
> 
> 
> 
> no...we're not 'coweing in fear' or anything. We're used to you people talking about these projects, and failing to do anything as usual.



Simply you guys wouldn't dare with Pakistan not because you're more mature as you claim to be, we sure not talk a lot but do a lot of thing in Tibet such Tibet railway, Dam Brahmaputra and build road to Donglang . As for water diversion to Xinjiang, we built Dam to pump water to Xinjang, that's Phase 1, feasibility to chose the right path to avoid seismic zone is our second phase of the project...now we're approaching the 3th phase to build and divert the water...all Chinese dream will come true.

And I didn't claim you guys to be coward, just ask your government not to interfere on what we will do with our water in Tibet...isn't that simple?



Jlaw said:


> I never heard people call China a shitty country, but I heard so many people who came from India or came back for a visit to India calling India polluted, poverty stricken, unhygenic and unsafe for females.



C'mon man don't bruise these Indian's ego , even their sacred river gangas is full of human corpses and shit disease but they're still enjoy it.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Guynextdoor2 said:


> No- India has maintained the Indus water treaty under all circumstances include wars. But that's beyond your understanding. need not be referenced here. As for the rest it is BS, talk to me when you actually DO something.
> I don't even know what kind of pot you guys are on...OBOR and CPEC began like LAST MONTH, and they're already in trouble.
> 
> na....everyone calls you a shitty country nowadays. A country that has 100s of millions living at less than $2 a day is talking about how other countries are 'poor'.



OBRO and CPEC are in trouble?  maybe trouble for India, we're enjoy its. As matter of fact a poor China are way better than your poor India that can't even have 25 cents for their living, children and their parents are living in hunger and starvation as we speak.

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## Jlaw

Guynextdoor2 said:


> we signed the treat 60 years ago and it continues. these things are above your IQ level.
> 
> Here - your country is dirt poor to boot. It's so dirty and polluted- people are scared that it will cause a global catastrphy


Show a non Indian source of this water treaty?

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## Guynextdoor2

Jlaw said:


> Show a non Indian source of this water treaty?



my job is not to google for you or correct your ignorance.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> OBRO and CPEC are in trouble?  maybe trouble for India, we're enjoy its. As matter of fact a poor China are way better than your poor India that can't even have 25 cents for their living, children and their parents are living in hunger and starvation as we speak.



yeah...the first payments for CPEC are coming up and the paks don't know what to do. They're running like headless chickens abusing china in most forums. You began this like LAST YEAR. And people are already calling it a universal **** up and calling you a FRAUD. Maybe you should probably achieve SOMETHING. You've been talking so much about so many things. People are looking at you like a joke.


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## Guynextdoor2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> yeah show that to Vietnamese



maybe you should feed your people first before thinking of OBOR and whatnot...looks like 75% of them live on about $5 a day. Dirt poor, filthy, polluted and sissy to boot.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Lol, OBOR is, was and will always be a lame duck project, A dirt poor country where 75% of population lives at $5 is the very essence of a global slum. What a F** ALL country. Hide the poverty by preventing people from migrating. Put a cake and watermelon show with some fancy buildings and cities. And then waste money of bullshit projects like OBOR etc.
> 
> *YOU* are gonna take on the USA...yeah that's gonna happen.



Indians like to cry over OBOR in which it can't compete, CPEC is part of OBOR and it's on it way to be in completion, even US and Japan begging to attend the OBOR summit, we can understand your Indian sour grape emotion, keep crying at the corner as isolated kid, nobody care 

Back to the thread, I think Xinjiang will be back to beauty as it was before thousand year ago with river and water all around

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## Guynextdoor2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Indians like to cry over OBOR in which it can't compete, CPEC is part of OBOR and it's on it way to be in completion, even US and Japan begging to attend the OBOR summit, we can understand your Indian sour grape emotion, keep crying at the corner as isolated kid, nobody care
> 
> Back to the thread, I think Xinjiang will be back to beauty as it was before thousand year ago with river and water all around




oh so nice.....90% of all china's ground water is contaminated, so this must be the remaining 10% all concentrated in one place


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Guynextdoor2 said:


> oh so nice.....90% of all china's ground water is contaminated, so this must be the remaining 10% all concentrated in one place



in Comparison India water

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## Guynextdoor2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> in Comparison India water



Oh India water and air bad...china good....


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Guynextdoor2 said:


> Oh India water and air bad...china good....



in Comparison India air, no need any video to support my claim  , as I said you're here to entertain me, keep entertain me more

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## axisofevil

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Armed Pakistan with Nuke?  now you Indians just expose your biggest lie, India wants Nuke to counter China's nuke and Pakistan want nuke to counter India's nuke...it's domino effect...and you blame us, Pakistan also have A bomb father too unless you claim that Indians scientists are only intelligent people on earth, you think by making false accusation then we will feel guilty? surely not
> 
> You guys are the first to harbor our separatist Dalai Lama in 1959 to provoke us first but claim that he is GOD love priest and a peace loving idol and expect to get away with that but when we support Masood you accuse us of support terrorism, you can just make you own double standard definition, we don't give a jack.
> 
> We're not even afraid of play with fire and we're scare of water? c'mon  as long as you guys shut your mouth on how we're playing with our water...everything will be fine and your opinions regarding our water doesn't matter anyway




The same way you armed NK with nukes....Dalai Lama is what threat to you? LOL...the old man was running for his life and freedom....Comparing Masood to the Dalai Lama....plz stfu.....and use that water to clean your *** lol

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

axisofevil said:


> The same way you armed NK with nukes....Dalai Lama is what threat to you? LOL...the old man was running for his life and freedom....Comparing Masood to the Dalai Lama....plz stfu.....and use that water to clean your *** lol



You see, so much expected from an Indian, he think he's always right and other people are wrong. Dalai is not much better human been than Mr. Masood according to us, you can STFU if you think we're wrong and sure we don't expect Indian to tell us how to use our water...LMAO

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## axisofevil

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> You see, so much expected from an Indian, he think he's always right and other people are wrong. Dalai is not much better human been than Mr. Masood according to us, you can STFU if you think we're wrong and sure we don't expect Indian to tell us how to use our water...LMAO





Plz....stfu....Dalai is a revered person all throughout the world. Trust me your saber rattling with water will do nothing to India...we will overcome as we always do in difficult time....Dont expect...IM giving you orders on how to use your hater so stfu

https://www.chinadialogue.net/blog/...-more-difficult-to-fix-than-its-dirty-air-/en



China will fuk up its precious water resources....its environment is shit....at least Indians don't lie and pretend....we know we have issues but you delusional f-ks should open your eyes a bit and get a sense of reality....There are many pics and sites will showcase the real China....not this cookie cutter shit....so to my chinese bots STFU haha

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## Mista

Not practical. 

Xinjiang is too large. A few rivers aren't going to increase the humidity of the region and change the desert into a grassland. 

There are many water technologies today which can help alleviate the water problem, but the problems are it's expensive and the people who need it are too spread out for the infrastructure to reach every single household. However more than half of China's population live in the cities today and more people are going to move into cities in the future, allowing water technologies to be feasible. Less people are going to use huge tracts of land to farm in the future. 

Instead of spending hundreds of billions into an overly ambitious project spanning over few decades, why not dedicate the resources to existing water technologies which have a proven track record? Most existing cities will still be populated in a hundred years but it's hard to say for rural areas.

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## Cybernetics

Lets get back to topic. Here are my thoughts:

The Xinjiang water diversion is part of the Western section of the ambitious South-North water diversion project.
















The divide between Southern China and Northern China's ecosystem can be characterised by the two main river systems in China the Yangtze/Changjiang (South) and Yellow River/Huanghe (North). The Yangtze/Changjiang river and its tributaries receives substantially more rainfall compared to its northern brother resulting in a healthy continuous flow. The Yellow River and its tributaries on the other hand is in a dryer region. This causes the Yellow River to have discontinued flow with exposed river bed at points in the year. A big reason why Yellow river has broken flow is not just the lack of water rather its the lack of plants and topsoil along its tributaries which slowly releases water after each rainfall.

Two main benefits of Rivers with a healthy flow:
1. Transportation (less than half the cost of rail)
2. Agriculture (irrigation)









_Yangtze River shipping. Ships transporting containers and gravel for construction._

The Yangtze is geographically situated in mountainous Southern China with few plains for agriculture (except for lowlands) thus its main benefit would be for commerce. The reason why the Yangtze delta and upstream regions are easily integrated and developed is because of the river. Goods, especially large and heavy loads can be easily and cheaply transported thus helping them integrate into a supply chain. Ex. A large windmill is to be exported overseas. The Yangzte is a suitable supply chain for such oversized loads that would be impossible to transport overland, blades can be made in Chongqing, casing made in Wuhan, motors made in Nanjing, assembled and shipped out from Shanghai. The river attracts capital due to its high ROI.





_Yellow River at Qingtongxia Yellow River Grand Canyon Scenic Spot in Ningxia._

The Yellow River feeds the central plains of China an important breadbasket. Current flows are sometimes insufficient to satisfy irrigation causing farmers to deplete ground water and offers little buffer in case of drought (unsustainable). Also many sections are not navigable causing only small crafts to be used which are not useful in developing industry. The region can rely on rail and road networks but costs will be higher resulting in lower profit margins (magnified by financial leverage) and surplus to be re-invested, slowing development. In addition, the capital costs of building and maintaining rail/road networks are more expensive than river navigation.

The key component for the revitalisation of the Yellow River ecosystem is the Western route of South-North Water Transfer Project.

The project seeks to solve a few issues:
1. Reversing desertification of North West and Inner Mongolia (synergy with Great Green Wall 三北防护林)
2. Reviving the Yellow River as a navigable river and secure irrigation of the central plains
3. Birth of Xinjiang breadbasket

The foundation of the Western route is the construction of countless dams in Tibet




_Map of large dam construction in China. Black blocks: operational, gray: under-construction, white blocks:to be constructed. First number within circle indicate MW capacity. This is a older map and some dams are under construction._






50 Billion Cubic Meters a year to the Yellow River would increase its flow by about 60%.
150 BCM Maqu Reservoir will be larger than Lake Nassar Reservoir in Egypt (132 BCM)
35,000 MW hydropower station (largest in the world? possibly the accumulation of multiple stations)
Water evaporation from new rivers and reservoirs will make the region more humid and rain more frequently
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reservoirs_by_volume
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hydroelectric_power_stations





_"Only by opening up canals can we save China", "Ideal (Great West Line)"_

Creation of reservoirs
New very large lakes in Xinjiang and Inner-Mongolia 
River diversion to the North East bread basket
Canals and abundance of water is viewed as a national security concern. Once the decision is made it's unlikely that any outside force can reverse the action.
If there is an emergence of the Xinjiang breadbasket, expect:
1. Higher food security in China (less imports? better/cheaper protein options)
2. Increased migration to the Tarim, Turpan, and Junggar Basins. Possibly making Xinjiang another great population cluster for China. Another great frontier 新疆域
3. Increased investment and investment opportunities in these regions
4. Creation of a new ecosystem. Due to the region being a basin, water vapour will be mostly trapped within the region possibly creating a semi-humid region in Xinjiang. This will spill over into Inner Mongolia and other parts of Western China
5. Improved security situation due to better economic opportunities in the long run. Some displacement might happen due to change in ecosystem.
6. Opportunities for hydro power, feeding industrial centres in the east.
7. Emergence of new industrial clusters in Western China resulting from cheap energy, cheap land, cheap labour, and availability of capital

Yes, there will be big impacts on the ecosystem, will the cost be worth it? will the end result be even better than what nature can currently provide for inhabitants? What makes humans stand out from the rest of the animals that roam this Earth is that we don't settle for what nature provided for us. We are grateful but we are on an endless quest to break limits and push boundaries of possibility. Time and time again, history has shown us that when armed with the proper scientific knowledge, vision, and can-do spirit we are able to shape a better future for humanity.

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## Guynextdoor2

Cybernetics said:


> Lets get back to topic. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> The Xinjiang water diversion is part of the Western section of the ambitious South-North water diversion project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The divide between Southern China and Northern China's ecosystem can be characterised by the two main river systems in China the Yangtze/Changjiang (South) and Yellow River/Huanghe (North). The Yangtze/Changjiang river and its tributaries receives substantially more rainfall compared to its northern brother resulting in a healthy continuous flow. The Yellow River and its tributaries on the other hand is in a dryer region. This causes the Yellow River to have discontinued flow with exposed river bed at points in the year. A big reason why Yellow river has broken flow is not just the lack of water rather its the lack of plants and topsoil along its tributaries which slowly releases water after each rainfall.
> 
> Two main benefits of Rivers with a healthy flow:
> 1. Transportation (<half the cost than rail)
> 2. Agriculture (irrigation)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Yangtze River shipping. Ships transporting containers and gravel for construction._
> 
> The Yangtze is geographically situated in mountainous Southern China with few plains for agriculture (except for lowlands) thus its main benefit would be for commerce. The reason why the Yangtze delta and upstream regions are easily integrated and developed is because of the river. Goods, especially large and heavy loads can be easily and cheaply transported thus helping them integrate into a supply chain. Ex. A large windmill is to be exported overseas. The Yangzte is a suitable supply chain for such oversized loads that would be impossible to transport overland, blades can be made in Chongqing, casing made in Wuhan, motors made in Nanjing, assembled and shipped out from Shanghai. The river attracts capital due to its high ROI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Yellow River at Qingtongxia Yellow River Grand Canyon Scenic Spot in Ningxia._
> 
> The Yellow River feeds the central plains of China an important breadbasket. Current flows are sometimes insufficient to satisfy irrigation causing farmers to deplete ground water and offers little buffer in case of drought (unsustainable). Also many sections are not navigable causing only small crafts to be used which are not useful in developing industry. The region can rely on rail and road networks but costs will be higher resulting in lower profit margins (magnified by financial leverage) and surplus to be re-invested, slowing development. In addition, the capital costs of building and maintaining rail/road networks are more expensive than river navigation.
> 
> The key component for the revitalisation of the Yellow River ecosystem is the Western route of South-North Water Transfer Project.
> 
> The project seeks to solve a few issues:
> 1. Reversing desertification of North West and Inner Mongolia (synergy with Great Green Wall 三北防护林)
> 2. Reviving the Yellow River as a navigable river and secure irrigation of the central plains
> 3. Birth of Xinjiang breadbasket
> 
> The foundation of the Western route is the construction of countless dams in Tibet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Map of large dams in China. Black blocks: operational, gray: under-construction, white blocks:to be constructed. First number within circle indicate MW capacity. This is a older map and some dams are under construction._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50 Billion Cubic Meters a year to the Yellow River would increase its flow by about 60%.
> 150 BCM Maqu Reservoir will be larger than Lake Nassar Reservoir in Egypt (132 BCM)
> 35,000 MW hydropower station (largest in the world? possibly the accumulation of multiple stations)
> Water evaporation from new rivers and reservoirs will make the region more humid and rain more frequently
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reservoirs_by_volume
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hydroelectric_power_stations
> 
> 
> 
> _"Only by opening up canals can we save China", "Ideal (Great West Line)"_
> 
> Creation of reservoirs
> New very large lakes in Xinjiang and Inner-Mongolia
> River diversion to the North East bread basket
> Canals and abundance of water is viewed as a national security concern. Once the decision is made it's unlikely that any outside force can reverse the action.
> If there is an emergence of the Xinjiang breadbasket, expect:
> 1. Higher food security in China (less imports? better/cheaper protein options)
> 2. Increased migration to the Tarim, Turpan, and Junggar Basins. Possibly making Xinjiang another great population cluster for China. Another great frontier 新疆域
> 3. Increased investment and investment opportunities in these regions
> 4. Creation of a new ecosystem. Due to the region being a basin, water vapour will be mostly trapped within the region possibly creating a semi-humid region in Xinjiang. This will spill over into Inner Mongolia and other parts of Western China
> 5. Improved security situation due to better economic opportunities in the long run. Some displacement might happen due to change in ecosystem.
> 6. Opportunities for hydro power, feeding industrial centres in the east.
> 7. Emergence of new industrial clusters in Western China resulting from cheap energy, cheap land, cheap labour, and availability of capital
> 
> Yes, there will be big impacts on the ecosystem, will the cost be worth it? will the end result will be even better than what nature can currently provide for inhabitants?



here are my thoughts- first clean up existing rivers and stop the pollution that's contaminated 90% of your drinking water instead of delusions. We will do this, we will do that when you do nothing in real world. Meanwhile 75% of your population lives under $5 day and you're taking whatever little cash they have on delusion trips.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> in Comparison India air, no need any video to support my claim  , as I said you're here to entertain me, keep entertain me more



comparison India claim, India polluted but better than China. Feed your people first.


----------



## Keel

Cybernetics said:


> Lets get back to topic. Here are my thoughts:
> 
> The Xinjiang water diversion is part of the Western section of the ambitious South-North water diversion project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The divide between Southern China and Northern China's ecosystem can be characterised by the two main river systems in China the Yangtze/Changjiang (South) and Yellow River/Huanghe (North). The Yangtze/Changjiang river and its tributaries receives substantially more rainfall compared to its northern brother resulting in a healthy continuous flow. The Yellow River and its tributaries on the other hand is in a dryer region. This causes the Yellow River to have discontinued flow with exposed river bed at points in the year. A big reason why Yellow river has broken flow is not just the lack of water rather its the lack of plants and topsoil along its tributaries which slowly releases water after each rainfall.
> 
> Two main benefits of Rivers with a healthy flow:
> 1. Transportation (<half the cost than rail)
> 2. Agriculture (irrigation)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Yangtze River shipping. Ships transporting containers and gravel for construction._
> 
> The Yangtze is geographically situated in mountainous Southern China with few plains for agriculture (except for lowlands) thus its main benefit would be for commerce. The reason why the Yangtze delta and upstream regions are easily integrated and developed is because of the river. Goods, especially large and heavy loads can be easily and cheaply transported thus helping them integrate into a supply chain. Ex. A large windmill is to be exported overseas. The Yangzte is a suitable supply chain for such oversized loads that would be impossible to transport overland, blades can be made in Chongqing, casing made in Wuhan, motors made in Nanjing, assembled and shipped out from Shanghai. The river attracts capital due to its high ROI.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Yellow River at Qingtongxia Yellow River Grand Canyon Scenic Spot in Ningxia._
> 
> The Yellow River feeds the central plains of China an important breadbasket. Current flows are sometimes insufficient to satisfy irrigation causing farmers to deplete ground water and offers little buffer in case of drought (unsustainable). Also many sections are not navigable causing only small crafts to be used which are not useful in developing industry. The region can rely on rail and road networks but costs will be higher resulting in lower profit margins (magnified by financial leverage) and surplus to be re-invested, slowing development. In addition, the capital costs of building and maintaining rail/road networks are more expensive than river navigation.
> 
> The key component for the revitalisation of the Yellow River ecosystem is the Western route of South-North Water Transfer Project.
> 
> The project seeks to solve a few issues:
> 1. Reversing desertification of North West and Inner Mongolia (synergy with Great Green Wall 三北防护林)
> 2. Reviving the Yellow River as a navigable river and secure irrigation of the central plains
> 3. Birth of Xinjiang breadbasket
> 
> The foundation of the Western route is the construction of countless dams in Tibet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Map of large dams in China. Black blocks: operational, gray: under-construction, white blocks:to be constructed. First number within circle indicate MW capacity. This is a older map and some dams are under construction._
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 50 Billion Cubic Meters a year to the Yellow River would increase its flow by about 60%.
> 150 BCM Maqu Reservoir will be larger than Lake Nassar Reservoir in Egypt (132 BCM)
> 35,000 MW hydropower station (largest in the world? possibly the accumulation of multiple stations)
> Water evaporation from new rivers and reservoirs will make the region more humid and rain more frequently
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reservoirs_by_volume
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_hydroelectric_power_stations
> 
> 
> 
> _"Only by opening up canals can we save China", "Ideal (Great West Line)"_
> 
> Creation of reservoirs
> New very large lakes in Xinjiang and Inner-Mongolia
> River diversion to the North East bread basket
> Canals and abundance of water is viewed as a national security concern. Once the decision is made it's unlikely that any outside force can reverse the action.
> If there is an emergence of the Xinjiang breadbasket, expect:
> 1. Higher food security in China (less imports? better/cheaper protein options)
> 2. Increased migration to the Tarim, Turpan, and Junggar Basins. Possibly making Xinjiang another great population cluster for China. Another great frontier 新疆域
> 3. Increased investment and investment opportunities in these regions
> 4. Creation of a new ecosystem. Due to the region being a basin, water vapour will be mostly trapped within the region possibly creating a semi-humid region in Xinjiang. This will spill over into Inner Mongolia and other parts of Western China
> 5. Improved security situation due to better economic opportunities in the long run. Some displacement might happen due to change in ecosystem.
> 6. Opportunities for hydro power, feeding industrial centres in the east.
> 7. Emergence of new industrial clusters in Western China resulting from cheap energy, cheap land, cheap labour, and availability of capital
> 
> Yes, there will be big impacts on the ecosystem, will the cost be worth it? will the end result will be even better than what nature can currently provide for inhabitants? What makes humans stand out from the rest of the animals that roam this Earth is that we don't settle for what nature provided for us. We are grateful but we are on an endless quest to break limits and push boundaries of possibility. Time and time again, history has shown us that when armed with the proper scientific knowledge, vision, and can-do spirit we are able to shape a better future for humanity.



Great writing supported by detailed analysis from different perspectives.
Many thanks.

It seems the water diversion described above to Xinjiang falls into the grand plan on the western front where water is to be rerouted from both of Changjiang and Huanghe, am I correct?

Do you have the latest development of the South-North water diversion projects? How is the project functioning so far? Does it meet its targets? Anyone?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Guynextdoor2 said:


> comparison India claim, India polluted but better than China. Feed your people first.



that why we want to divert water to feed our population...what you think we're doing with water...for fun?

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Roybot said:


> Experts??? More like Chinese fanboys. I wonder how many of the Chinese PDFers are part of that WeChat group
> 
> Ren and Geng lmao.



You can call what ever you want but as I mentioned before we don't want to wait until our children will have to pay 100$ or 1000$ for a bottle of water, and that is the very reason our south north water transfer project is been carry out, we're not doing for fun but for the need.



Guynextdoor2 said:


> yeah....maybe you should do something instead of talking. In any case the average Chinese's goose is cooked. Instead of scholars meeting to decide how to clean up china's water which is 90% contaminated, they waste their time on bullshit discussions like these that you have illusions about doing and don't solve a thing anyway.



I can see your anger and sensitivity each time we brought up water issue, you're trying to derail and highjack the thread to talk something else...nice try, that's not working with me , India can cry with frenzy or frustration as they like but we manager Tibet water is not Indian's business.

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## Mista

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> River, water mean hope for our future, region without water mean no hope and no future so no matter how difficult it's, we have to get water there, above cost is the life line, we Chinese can't wait until our children have to pay heavy price or die from dehydration before act.



Nope. People aren't going to die from dehydration just because there's a drought in China anymore. Most of the water usage today goes to agriculture and industry. If there's an emergency of course industry or agriculture water usage will be reduced for human consumption.

Modern water technologies are sufficient enough, just that they are expensive. With urbanization, making use of water technologies is much more practical than creating a new water pathway thousands of kilometer. Water usage for urban farming is also much more efficient. And even with the new water diversion, humidity in the region isn't going to increase and change the geology of the region.

China's population is going to decrease by 2030 anyway and so will the water shortage pressure. I'm confident water technologies will continue to improve.


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## beijingwalker

*Kashgar's NEW Old City | Charms & Controversy Surrounding Rebuilt History in Xinjiang, China




*

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## xiao qi

Not like Chinese, same as Mongol people or Turk more than.


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## 8888888888888

The buildings are now far more earthquake safe.

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## shadows888

guy look like he wanted to see a zoo. maybe he should just go to a zoo.

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## sinait

xiao qi said:


> Not like Chinese, same as Mongol people or Turk more than.


In multi-ethnic country China, all are Chinese.
Some don't look like Han Chinese.

In Singapore, 25% don't look like Han Chinese.
All are Singaporeans.
.

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## ZeEa5KPul

I've never understood why Westerners have this weird poverty fetish, this faintly colonial obsession with the "authentic". It's not a love of antiquity -- that can satisfied in a museum. And those buildings he claims to love aren't antiquities, they're just crappy old houses.

And if he's upset now, he's going to be tearing his hair out (figuratively speaking) when the Belt and Road really kick in. At that point, if he's even able to prise a local away from his smartphone or latte, all he's going to hear about is First World Problems.

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## beijingwalker

The old quarter before was a fire hazard, fire trucks and ambulances can't go in cause the alleys are so narrow. You can't put local residents lives in peril just to please a bunch of tourists.

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## sinait

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I've never understood why Westerners have this weird poverty fetish, this faintly colonial obsession with the "authentic". It's not a love of antiquity -- that can satisfied in a museum. And those buildings he claims to love aren't antiquities, they're just crappy old houses.
> 
> And if he's upset now, he's going to be tearing his hair out (figuratively speaking) when the Belt and Road really kick in. At that point, if he's even able to prise a local away from his smartphone or latte, all he's going to hear about is First World Problems.


He likes the old place so much, China should give him special permission to stay there for the rest of his life, on condition he must really stay there for the rest of his life.
.

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## shadows888

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I've never understood why Westerners have this weird poverty fetish, this faintly colonial obsession with the "authentic". It's not a love of antiquity -- that can satisfied in a museum. And those buildings he claims to love aren't antiquities, they're just crappy old houses.
> 
> And if he's upset now, he's going to be tearing his hair out (figuratively speaking) when the Belt and Road really kick in. At that point, if he's even able to prise a local away from his smartphone or latte, all he's going to hear about is First World Problems.



They want a zoo so they can feel "enriched" for the cultural diversity feels.

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## grey boy 2

*People dance to observe Eid al Adha in Xinjiang*
(Xinhua) 09:55, September 02, 2017






People dance to observe Eid al Adha, known in China as Corban Festival, one of Islam's most important holidays, in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang, Sept. 1, 2017. (Xinhua/Cen Yunpeng)




*Such proof of the freedom of worship enjoyed by the minorities would still continue to be denied by the anti-China propaganda from the West. At the same time the Western media are increasingly blind to the extremely high-handed and harsh measures taken against the Muslims living in the Western societies* (credits to Atan Liar)
http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0902/c90000-9263487-2.html

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## beijingwalker

*Scholars Mull Project to Divert Water from Tibet to Arid Xinjiang*
© Global Times
ASIA & PACIFIC
04:30 11.08.2017




Experts want the government to reconsider diverting water from Tibet to parched northern regions, but disagreements remain strong due to the huge cost and possible environmental damage.

Around 20 scholars met outside Urumqi in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region over the last weekend of July, and discussed the feasibility of diverting water from the heights of the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau to Xinjiang's lowland plains, one of the attendees revealed.

"Water from rivers such as the Yarlung Zangbo River can help turn the vast deserts and arid lands into oasis and farmlands, alleviate population pressure in the east, as well as reduce flood risks in the counties through which the river travels downstream," Ren Qunluo, professor at the Xinjiang University of Finance and Economics, told the Global Times.

"Xinjiang has 1.1 million square kilometers of plains, equal in size to all the plains in the country's east. But less than 70,000 square kilometers are arable due to a shortage of water," he noted. "If all these plains are greened, another China will have been created."

The dream of massive water diversions from soaking-wet Southwest China to the thirsty north has been on the minds of engineers and scholars for decades.

But some say this dream could be a nightmare of environmental damage, and these concerns mean the plateau-to-plain project has never been approved.

However pro-diversion experts are now trying to rally support for the idea.

He Xinglin, a construction engineer and investment consultant who has long supported diverting water from the Tibet Autonomous Region to Xinjiang and the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, says that social conditions are not yet ripe as the public may not accept this plan.

However, he noted that "if approved, the project, combined with the Belt & Road initiative, will become a major engine to pull China and the world out of economic difficulties."

*Pricey plan*

To some experts these dreams are rather fanciful.

Mei Xinyu, an associate researcher at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, told the Global Times that he has recently tried to persuade friends visiting from Xinjiang to abandon any idea of "transforming nature."

"The project will likely bring calamity to the country. I firmly oppose it," Mei told the Global Times. "The construction of the Grand Canal connecting Beijing in the north and Zhejiang Province in the south led to the downfall of the Sui Dynasty (581-618). We should learn their lesson."

Geng Changsheng from Shiyan, Central China's Hubei Province, started to study water diversion and publish his ideas online in 2014. According to his proposed plan, a 1,400-kilometer long tunnel would be built connecting the Southwest's Pengqu, Yarlung Zangbo and Lhasa rivers to Northwest China's Taklimakan Desert, which covers over 330,000 square kilometers.

The plan has drawn lots of support, including from Ren. But Geng admits the whole project would cost an estimated 1.1 trillion yuan ($163.69 billion) and take at least 20 years to finish.

Mei says that Xinjiang cannot afford this project. "The region's GDP last year was only 900 billion yuan. But its expenditure was almost five times its income. It depends massively on central government subsidies and the assistance of local governments in other parts of China," Mei explained.

Ren thinks that these worries are overblown. "China is facing industrial overcapacity. The project will help stimulate the economy. Besides, the yearly cost would be small compared to the country's total revenue," he explained.

Geng argued that financing can also be raised through sponsorships and the sale of leases on future arable land.

But these economic reassurances do little to relax those whose concerns are environmental. Liu Shukun, a professor at the China Institute of Water Resources and Hydropower Research says he doesn't support the proposed project as it could "possibly lead to changes to the ecology in both Tibet and Xinjiang."

"We now advocate an 'ecological civilization.' Human beings, wildlife and the greater environment are all equal. We shouldn't seek to satisfy our own interests at the cost of ecological destruction," he noted.

Geng argues that humans have always transformed nature and Ren claims that the greening of the desert will increase biodiversity.

*An old idea*

The idea of sending Tibetan water to Xinjiang dates back to the late 1950s. March into the Desert, a famous work by meteorologist, geologist and educator Zhu Kezhen (1890-1974) that has long featured in Chinese schoolbooks, advises diverting water to Xinjiang's arid plains.

The plan to divert water from Tibet to northern parts of China, known as the Grand Western Water Diversion Plan, was heatedly discussed in the 1990s. Over the decade, 208 lawmakers and 118 political advisers raised proposals and motions on the plan, according to a 2006 report by the Southern Weekly.

Guo Kai, a self-taught hydrologist, is one of many experts who have spoken in favor of the project. "So much of the water of the Yarlung Zangbo runs out of China, it's a huge waste," said Guo, who has been pushing his own design for the project since the 1980s. 

His proposal to divert 200 billion cubic meters of water every year and send it to North and Northwest China through tunnels and pipelines has received wide support from military officers, including 118 major generals or above.

In 1999, with the support of central leaders, a team of scholars specializing water resources, climate, geology and civil engineering, including Guo, launched a 36-day investigation trip to the related area and came up with a positive report.

However, it faced a backlash from many other experts and officials, including Wang Sucheng, the then minister of the Ministry of Water Resources, who told the media the plan was unnecessary, unscientific and unfeasible. 

Wang Hao, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, and Xu Daoyi from the China Earthquake Administration, also opposed building high dams and tunnels in lofty mountains vulnerable to natural disasters. 

Opposition has also come from other countries. The Indian Minister of State for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh said in 2010 that New Delhi would not accept any plan to divert the Yarlung Zangbo, according to The Hindu newspaper. The river runs through China, India and Bangladesh and is also known as the Brahmaputra.

China's decision-makers have left the plan stranded. However, discussions can still be found regularly.

Wang Guangqian, a hydrologist and academician at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, proposes building canals and pipelines along the Qinghai-Tibet railway to divert water from the Yarlung Zangbo.

"[We] thought this wouldn't happen for 50 years but it is necessary now," Wang was quoted as saying by the First Financial Daily in 2011, citing China's growing demand for water, increasing desertification and shrinking groundwater reserves in North China.

Geng believes the route his diversions would take dodge the "earthquake belt." 

If a huge amount of water is diverted to Xinjiang and much of the region is turned into arable land, it could be a driver of precipitation in other northern parts of China, helping to dampen these dry regions, he said. Moreover, all the extra plant life that will grow will help fight global warming, he added.

Geng regularly shares his ideas online and sends letters to the government, hoping decision-makers reconsider the plan.

Ren recently set up a WeChat group to gather pro-diversion netizens together. They exchange ideas and suggestions on how to improve the plan and how it can be realized.

*Significance and side effects*

Chen Chuanyou, a water resource expert at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, believes diverting water from Tibet to the north will help guarantee the realization of the "Chinese dream."

"It's needed to prepare for drought. Though it seems that we don't lack water now, we need to nip shortages in the bud," Chen told the Global Times, citing that 10 massive droughts happened in North China from the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) to the Republic of China (1912-1949) period, claiming tens of thousands of lives each time.

However, he doesn't think it is feasible to transform deserts that have existed for millions of years into farmland or forest. "The project would be too huge and the outcome is unpredictable." 

He proposes building tunnels and pipelines to connect rives such as the Yarlung Zangbo and the Nujiang to the Yangtze River, which would then allow the flow of water north through the middle route of the South to North Water Diversion Project.

As for the reaction of downriver countries, both Chen and Ren believe their worries can be solved through diplomacy. "The areas the Yarlung Zangbo runs into are rich in rainfall. We could only divert water in the rainy season. The project can help control floods in those countries," Ren said.

In addition, experts say the impact of diverting water from the river's upper reaches will be small. According to the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the natural surface runoff of the Yarlung Zangbo is 828 billion cubic meters per year, of which only 14.61 percent is produced in China.

Geng believes that diverting water to Xinjiang will help attract people to move there from densely-populated and poverty-stricken areas, which will promote stability. 

However, Mei says that the huge cost of the project may increase the tax burden on citizens in coastal areas and cause public anger, which will trigger social instability.

Whatever the future benefits or pitfalls of the project, some people are already using it to make money flow into their pockets.

In 2015, the Xinjiang-based Korla Evening Post reported police had busted several cases in which crooks faked documents and seals in the name of a State-funded water diversion project and cheated hundreds of people across the country who wanted to get involved.

_This article was first published in the Global Times._ 

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201708111056366357-scholars-project-water-tibet-xinjiang/

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## TaiShang

*Women's startups bloom in Xinjiang Province*
Xinhua | Updated: 2017-09-25 08:02


















Seamstresses at work at a sewing factory in Xinjiang Province. [Photo/Xinhua]


URUMQI — Gulnisa Ali's five-person tailor shop has grown into a company with more than 50 employees.

"My shop expanded from 30 square meters to some 500 square meters in just five years. That's an incredible change," said Ali, manager of a company that produces ethnic costumes in Turpan, a tourism-driven city in northwest China's Xinjiang region.

Born into a poor rural family of six children, Ali got her sewing skills from her mother. Her grandmother and great-grandmother were also skilled seamstresses.

Ali moved to Turpan in 1996 and started her own business. Monthly turnover was 3,000 (about $462) to 4,000 yuan before 2013. Now it is more than 100,000 yuan with a net profit of some 30,000 yuan.

"I was adept at needlework, but I had no idea about running a company ... I didn't have a proper place and assistants to do that," said the 50-year-old Ali.

Business took off after local officials provided her a free workshop and helped her recruit apprentices.

As a Xinhua reporter walked around one of her workshops, some 10 young women deftly operated electric sewing machines. Gorgeous ethnic costumes hung on the walls, neat and tidy.

"Look at those costumes. I was inspired by grapes and applied them to my designs," said Ali. "You know, more than 200 species of grapes grow here in Turpan."

"Without the support from the government, I could not have made it. I mean, the government is really like a bridge linking me with employees and the market," she said, adding that the Asian Development Bank has also supported her business.

Paritan Gapal, head of the Women's Federation in Turpan's Gaochang District, told Xinhua that the bank introduced a project to boost cultural development and tourism in ethnic minority regions and support local people, especially women.

The project included nine training sessions on topics including entrepreneurship and sewing skills, benefiting 450 women in total.

The bank sponsored 30 women who were willing and able to start their own businesses, giving them 3,000 yuan each in funding. It also offered them electric sewing machines and embroidery machines.

*"Aid from the ADB has injected great impetus into women's businesses. Apart from that, the local government has provided them interest-free loans and given them advice, which has helped build their confidence," said Gapal.*

The beneficiaries have not let them down. They are helping others now. Gulnisa Ali, for example, helped all five of her sisters open their own costume shops. Her company trains more than 300 local women a year and has hired women with physical disabilities.

"I'd like to roll up my sleeves and work hard for five more years," said Ali. As her business grows, Ali is considering expanding her workshop and hiring more people.

"Also, I want to do business via online platforms like Alibaba. Should it work out, my products may go all over the world," she said.

Her dream may come true soon, as the local government has increased its efforts to facilitate trade, especially online business.

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## beijingwalker

* Uyghur girl and her French husband live happy life in Xinjiang




*

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## lastofthepatriots

Must be non Muslim Uyghur.


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## Diggy

lastofthepatriots said:


> Must be non Muslim Uyghur.



haha , lets hope so


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## lastofthepatriots

Zebra said:


> haha , lets hope so



Why?


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## beijingwalker

lastofthepatriots said:


> Must be non Muslim Uyghur.


Not likely, Almost all Uyghurs are Muslims, that's something they were born into.


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## lastofthepatriots

beijingwalker said:


> Not likely, Almost all Uyghurs are Muslims, that's something they were born into.



Do Muslim Uyghurs typically drink alcohol?


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## NoOne'sBoy

kinda normal in other countries. why should they make a video?


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## beijingwalker

NoOne'sBoy said:


> kinda normal in other countries. why should they make a video?


It's normal for people to make videos about their lives, why they shouldn't?


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## NoOne'sBoy

beijingwalker said:


> It's normal for people to make videos about their lives, why they shouldn't?


i dont know. maybe me and my bird should make a video and upload and post here

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## beijingwalker

lastofthepatriots said:


> Do Muslim Uyghurs typically drink alcohol?


I guess some of them do in China, but it doesn't make them non Muslims.


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## scherz

Alcohol is haram!


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## mike2000 is back

beijingwalker said:


> * Uyghur girl and her French husband live happy life in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Lovely video.
Seems they own a bar there or something. I thought xijiang was a Muslim region, as such alcohol is forbidden there? Or maybe they follow a more liberal form of Islam? 
Anyway, it's good to see they live a happy life.

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## lastofthepatriots

mike2000 is back said:


> Lovely video.
> Seems they own a bar or something. I thought xijiang is a Muslim state as such alcohol is forbidden there? Or maybe they follow a more liberal form of Islam?



That is what I was curious about as well.


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## SBUS-CXK

NoOne'sBoy said:


> i dont know. maybe me and my bird should make a video and upload and post here


But I want to see the LTTE video


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## TheBlackCoat

Unlike the fake Turks in Turkey, Uyghurs are the original Turks and are Muslims in name only. Anyone who read Genghis Khan knows how much he hated Islam and how he ransacked the Islamic empires.

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## hussain0216

TheBlackCoat said:


> Unlike the fake Turks in Turkey, Uyghurs are the original Turks and are Muslims in name only. Anyone who read Genghis Khan knows how much he hated Islam and how he ransacked the Islamic empires.



Upon defeat, the mongols became the muslim empires of central asia, everyone from India to Russia was effected, the Mughals themselves were muslims who conquered india whose ancestors were mongols

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## TheBlackCoat

hussain0216 said:


> Upon defeat, the mongols became the muslim empires of central asia, everyone from India to Russia was effected, the Mughals themselves were muslims who conquered india whose ancestors were mongols



That does not prove that they loved or were attached to Islam. Turks used Islam as a political tool to expand their control and could care less about teachings of an Arab land.

Since you seem to know history, you would know Timur flirted with the idea of encouraging Buddhism to control eastern China before settling on Islam. Mughal king Akbar tried to implement his own created religion Din-i-Ilahi.


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## NoOne'sBoy

Two said:


> But I want to see the LTTE video


yawn............


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## beijingwalker

It's nice that this French guy gives up everything and comes with this Uyghur girl to settle down in Xinjiang knowing the fact that he can't speak any Chinese, Uyghur or English.

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## hussain0216

TheBlackCoat said:


> That does not prove that they loved or were attached to Islam. Turks used Islam as a political tool to expand their control and could care less about teachings of an Arab land.
> 
> Since you seem to know history, you would know Timur flirted with the idea of encouraging Buddhism to control eastern China before settling on Islam. Mughal king Akbar tried to implement his own created religion Din-i-Ilahi.



Your making a uneducated guess upon the strength of an individuals faith which is the height of stupidity


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## TheBlackCoat

hussain0216 said:


> Your making a uneducated guess upon the strength of an individuals faith which is the height of stupidity



There is no guess work here. It is well documented history.


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## hussain0216

TheBlackCoat said:


> There is no guess work here. It is well documented history.



No its not, your guesstimating the strength of faith of muslims born centuries ago


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## TheBlackCoat

hussain0216 said:


> No its not, your guesstimating the strength of faith of muslims born centuries ago



Forget about history. How religious are the current day Turks? For most part they do not care about Islam and not brainwashed likes the lunatics from the West Asia.


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## NoOne'sBoy

nothing new religion was always used by the elite to fool the morons while being freely corrupt. just like at Brunei


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## hussain0216

TheBlackCoat said:


> Forget about history. How religious are the current day Turks? For most part they do not care about Islam and not brainwashed likes the lunatics from the West Asia.



??????
Some are religious, some are not, some are faithful, some are not

Who are you to make proclamations about the faith of people


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## Jlaw

mike2000 is back said:


> Lovely video.
> Seems they own a bar there or something. I thought xijiang was a Muslim region, as such alcohol is forbidden there? Or maybe they follow a more liberal form of Islam?
> Anyway, it's good to see they live a happy life.


Xinjiang is a province of China. Opening a bar and selling alcohol is legal.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*CHINA Xinjiang provides free medical kits for rural residents*
Source: Xinhua| 2017-10-18 15:45:05|


URUMQI, Oct. 18 (Xinhua) -- The government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region sent the first batch of 100,000 medical kits to rural residents in Aksu Prefecture Tuesday.

They are among 1.84 million medical kits to be given for free by Xinjiang to rural farmers and herdsmen in Aksu, Kashgar, Hotan and Kirgiz Autonomous Prefecture of Kizilsu this year, according to Xinjiang Health and Family Planning Commission.

Xinjiang has invested around 140 million yuan (around 21 million U.S. dollars) to provide a medical kit for every rural household in these areas.

The kit consists of regular first-aid medicine, painkillers and cold remedies. More of the medication can be obtained for free in designated local clinics once it is used up, the commission said.

The project is a new move for Xinjiang to improve rural health care. In 2016, the autonomous region launched a free health check program.

The first overall health checks covered more than 17.5 million residents and cost over 1.49 billion yuan. A new round of universal health checks in the region is underway.


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## beijingwalker

Free education, free square school meals, free school shuttle service, free school accommodation...Xinjiang kids enjoy all of them and some still say that China persecutes them. I highly doubt if their countries provide all of those welfare to their minority kids.

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## Huan

beijingwalker said:


> Free education, free square school meals, free school shuttle service, free school accommodation...Xinjiang kids enjoy all of them and some still say that China persecutes them. I highly doubt if their countries provide all of those welfare to their minority kids.


Unfortunately, I had to buy my own lunch from school starting at elementary 1st grade in the US. Capitalism starts early in American education.


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## beijingwalker

Huan said:


> Unfortunately, I had to buy my own lunch from school starting at elementary 1st grade in the US. Capitalism starts early in American education.


Most Chinese kids do the same. Only minority kids from poor regions in Xinjiang and Tibet get that government funded welfare.


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## kankan326

beijingwalker said:


> Most Chinese kids do the same. Only minority kids from poor regions in Xinjiang and Tibet get that government funded welfare.


No. In some rural areas kids have free lunch.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

kankan326 said:


> No. In some rural areas kids have free lunch.


today almost every rural school kids could enjoy it.CHINA used to modify its policies several years later with much more improvements the details depend on economy and financial income of each province !
National fund is the same but as we all.know city like.shanghai, beijing,guangzhou ,shenzhen are richer,the municipal fund is much higher while the rest regions are relatively backward that is normal in every country like the difference a capital and a small city the financial budgets quite.different!!!.


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## beijingwalker

President Xi personally asked the local government to well arrange the earthquake victims before winter and in just several months mostly Uyghur Muslim earthquake victims moved into brand new modern apartment buildings and even utility fees including electricity, water and gas was exempt for them. How many governments can have things done this fast and efficient?

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## beijingwalker

For those who accuse China of persecuting Uyghur Muslims in China. Does your country do this for your poor Muslim population?

Chinese central government allocated 465 million Yuan and Xinjiang local government 100 million Yuan to have had all kids living in poor underdeveloped far western regions in Xinjiang covered by nutrition meals program ( balanced nutrition meals must contain meat, milk, eggs, vegetables etc) . The kids in those regions have already long enjoyed free education to high school and all other benefits such as free books , accommodation , All the cost is paid by the government.





*Free school shuttle bus rides for Xinjiang students




*


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## ranjeet

Thank you China for helping her own citizens in a natural disaster.

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## Raphael

ranjeet said:


> Thank you China for helping her own citizens in a natural disaster.



It seems like the ordinary and expected duty of a government that deserves no special congratulation right? But even superpowers like the US (e.g. during Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Katrina, etc) and India (with its ongoing child malnutrition epidemic) cannot live up to such a responsibility. So when a developing country like China can, it's remarkable.

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## beijingwalker

When the above mentioned earthquake first struck, PLA medical corp rushed to the scene in couple of hours to treat the quake victims and other units dug and saved many quake victims trapped in the ruins just in time.





Foreign anti China propaganda bashes China claiming that China persecutes Muslims, massacres Tibetans, genocides Mongols... One should come to China and see how people live with their own eyes. They live a much better life than the people of their neighboring countries.


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## ranjeet

Raphael said:


> It seems like the ordinary and expected duty of a government that deserves no special congratulation right? But even superpowers like the US (e.g. during Hurricanes Harvey, Irma, Katrina, etc) and India (with its ongoing child malnutrition epidemic) cannot live up to such a responsibility. So when a developing country like China can, it's remarkable.


Yes, it's remarkable.


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## onebyone

Chinese engineers are testing techniques that could be used to build a 1,000km tunnel – the world’s longest – to carry water from Tibet to Xinjiang, experts involved in the project say.

The proposed tunnel, which would drop down from the world’s highest plateau in multiple sections connected by waterfalls, would “turn Xinjiang into California”, one geotechnical engineer said.

China’s longest tunnel is the eight-year-old 85km Dahuofang water project in Liaoning province, while the world’s longest tunnel is the 137km main water supply pipe beneath the city of New York.

China starts 8,000 water clean-up projects worth US$100 billion in first half of year

However, the Chinese government started building a tunnel in the centre of Yunnan province in August that will be more than 600km long, local media reported. Comprising more than 60 sections, each wide enough to accommodate two high-speed trains, it will pass through mountains several thousand metres above sea level in an area plagued by unstable geological conditions.

Researchers said building the Yunnan tunnel would be a “rehearsal” of the new technology, engineering methods and equipment needed for the Tibet-Xinjiang tunnel, which would divert the Yarlung Tsangpo River in southern Tibet to the Taklimakan Desert in Xinjiang. Downstream, in India, the river becomes the Brahmaputra, which joins the Ganges in Bangladesh.











The Tibetan Plateau stops the rain-laden Indian Ocean monsoon from reaching Xinjiang, with the Gobi Desert in the north and the Taklimakan Desert in the south leaving more than 90 per cent of the region unsuitable for human settlement.

However, the Taklimakan sits right at the foot of the Tibetan Plateau, which is known as the water tower of Asia. The more than 400 billion tonnes of water it releases each year – almost enough to fill Lake Erie in the United States – also feeds the source of other major rivers, including the Yellow, Yangtze, Mekong (known in China as the Lancang) and the Ganges.

Watershed crisis: China’s cities tap into sea of polluted water

The earliest proposals to divert water from Tibet to Xinjiang were made by Qing dynasty officials Lin Zexu and Zuo Zongtang in the 19th century. In recent decades, Chinese government branches, including the Ministry of Water Resources, have come up with engineering blueprints involving huge dams, pumps and tunnels.

The project’s enormous cost, engineering challenges, possible environmental impact and the likelihood of protests by neighbouring countries have meant it has never left the drawing board, but Zhang Chuanqing, a researcher at the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Rock and Soil Mechanics in Wuhan, Hubei province, said China was now taking a quiet, step-by-step approach to bring it to life.

“The water diversion project in central Yunnan is a demonstration project,” said Zhang, who has played a key role in many major Chinese water tunnel projects, including the one in Yunnan. “It is to show we have the brains, muscle and tools to build super-long tunnels in hazardous terrains, and the cost does not break the bank.”

The construction of the tunnel on the Yunnan-Guizhou Plateau, the country’s second-highest, would make political leaders more confident about the Tibet-Xinjiang project and more likely to approve it, he said.

The Yunnan-Guizhou Plateau in southwest China is, like the Tibetan Plateau, an earthquake-prone zone with many active faults.

Huge hidden ocean under Xinjiang’s Tarim basin larger than all Great Lakes combined

“Fault zones are our biggest headache,” Zhang said. “If we can secure a solution, it will help us get rid of the main engineering obstacles to getting water from Tibet to Xinjiang.”

The solution they came up with was inspired by subway trains, whose carriages are connected by elastic joints. In the tunnel, Zhang said, flexible materials that were also waterproof and strong would be used to bind concrete pipes together when they passed through fault zones.

The Yunnan tunnel and support facilities will take eight years to build at an estimated cost of 78 billion yuan (US$11.7 billion). It will carry more than three billion tonnes of water each year from northwestern Yunnan to the province’s dry centre and directly benefit more than 11 million people, according to the provincial government.










The _Yunnan Daily_ said the tunnel would create 3.4 million jobs, more than 30,000 hectares of new farmland and give the local economy a 330 billion yuan boost.

Wang Wei, a researcher who helped draft the latest Tibet-Xinjiang water tunnel proposal, which was submitted to the central government in March, said more than 100 scientists formed different teams for the nationwide research effort.

The team he was part of was led by China’s top tunnelling expert, Wang Mengshu. It suggested the government drain the Yarlung Tsangpo River at Sangri county in southern Tibet, near the disputed border with India.

China diverts 10 billion cubic metres of water to arid north

Sangri county featured a large, relatively flat valley that was ideal for the engineering project. An artificial island would be built in the middle of the river to create rapid turbulence, which could filter out sediment, and direct water to a well. The well could control the amount of water flowing into the tunnel.

Wang, a researcher at the State Key Laboratory of Hydraulics and Mountain River Engineering at Sichuan University in Chengdu, said the tunnel would mostly be underground and would be built in many sections. In some places, large boring machines with drill heads around 15 metres wide would be lowered through wells to drill tunnels from opposite directions.

Some of the drops involved would be so steep that the tunnel would be fitted with hydropower turbines to slow the water flow and avoid damage to lower sections.










“No man-made structure can withstand the direct bombardment of water falling from 3,000 to 4,000 metres above,” Wang said.

The researchers estimated the tunnel would be able to carry 10 billion to 15 billion tonnes of water from the Yarlung Tsangpo River to the Taklimakan Desert each year. That’s about a quarter of the annual flow of the Yellow River, the second longest river in China and the cradle of Chinese civilisation.

But the cost would be astronomical. According to Wang’s estimate, each kilometre of tunnel would cost at least one billion yuan due to the difficult terrain and taxing altitude of the Tibetan Plateau.

New channel in huge south-north water transfer project to bring relief to parched Beijing

Wang said the project would also prompt protests from India and Bangladesh, which lay downstream. But compared to other proposals, which would require the construction of massive dams on the river, the underground tunnels would leave Tibet’s natural landscape largely unscathed.

“It won’t leave a mark on the surface for other countries or environmental activists to point their fingers at,” he said.

Zhang said China would definitely go ahead with the project one day.

“In five to 10 years from now, the technology will be ready and the cost affordable, and the temptation of the benefits will be difficult to resist,” he said.

Zhang said the water shortage in Xinjiang was in many ways similar to that in California early in the 20th century. The Central Valley Project, devised in 1933, diverted water from northern California to the San Joaquin Valley, turning it into the world’s most productive agricultural region.










“With new water from Tibet, Xinjiang would boom like California,” he said.

Zhou Shiqiao, a researcher at the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Tibetan Plateau Research in Beijing, said the government should study the feasibility and environmental impact of the different proposals extensively before giving the final nod.

“It will change the landscape of an entire region,” Zhou said. “To my knowledge, no environmental evaluation has been carried out. The nature and scale of the impact remains in the dark.”

The Tibetan Plateau, also known as the Third Pole, has been battered by climate change, with its glaciers shrinking and permafrost melting. Some studies have warned that Asia’s water tower might run dry if global temperatures continue to rise


http://www.scmp.com/news/china/soci...plan-1000km-tunnel-make-xinjiang-desert-bloom

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## Unite & Defend

Well if anyone can do it, China can

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## beijingwalker

I am really looking forward to this unprecedented mega project!

*Scholars Mull Project to Divert Water from Tibet to Arid Xinjiang*
© Global Times
ASIA & PACIFIC
04:30 11.08.2017




Experts want the government to reconsider diverting water from Tibet to parched northern regions, but disagreements remain strong due to the huge cost and possible environmental damage.

Around 20 scholars met outside Urumqi in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region over the last weekend of July, and discussed the feasibility of diverting water from the heights of the Qinghai-Tibet Plateau to Xinjiang's lowland plains, one of the attendees revealed.

"Water from rivers such as the Yarlung Zangbo River can help turn the vast deserts and arid lands into oasis and farmlands, alleviate population pressure in the east, as well as reduce flood risks in the counties through which the river travels downstream," Ren Qunluo, professor at the Xinjiang University of Finance and Economics, told the Global Times.

"Xinjiang has 1.1 million square kilometers of plains, equal in size to all the plains in the country's east. But less than 70,000 square kilometers are arable due to a shortage of water," he noted. "If all these plains are greened, another China will have been created."

The dream of massive water diversions from soaking-wet Southwest China to the thirsty north has been on the minds of engineers and scholars for decades.

But some say this dream could be a nightmare of environmental damage, and these concerns mean the plateau-to-plain project has never been approved.

However pro-diversion experts are now trying to rally support for the idea.

He Xinglin, a construction engineer and investment consultant who has long supported diverting water from the Tibet Autonomous Region to Xinjiang and the Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, says that social conditions are not yet ripe as the public may not accept this plan.

However, he noted that "if approved, the project, combined with the Belt & Road initiative, will become a major engine to pull China and the world out of economic difficulties."

*Pricey plan*

To some experts these dreams are rather fanciful.

Mei Xinyu, an associate researcher at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation, told the Global Times that he has recently tried to persuade friends visiting from Xinjiang to abandon any idea of "transforming nature."

"The project will likely bring calamity to the country. I firmly oppose it," Mei told the Global Times. "The construction of the Grand Canal connecting Beijing in the north and Zhejiang Province in the south led to the downfall of the Sui Dynasty (581-618). We should learn their lesson."

Geng Changsheng from Shiyan, Central China's Hubei Province, started to study water diversion and publish his ideas online in 2014. According to his proposed plan, a 1,400-kilometer long tunnel would be built connecting the Southwest's Pengqu, Yarlung Zangbo and Lhasa rivers to Northwest China's Taklimakan Desert, which covers over 330,000 square kilometers.

The plan has drawn lots of support, including from Ren. But Geng admits the whole project would cost an estimated 1.1 trillion yuan ($163.69 billion) and take at least 20 years to finish.

Mei says that Xinjiang cannot afford this project. "The region's GDP last year was only 900 billion yuan. But its expenditure was almost five times its income. It depends massively on central government subsidies and the assistance of local governments in other parts of China," Mei explained.

Ren thinks that these worries are overblown. "China is facing industrial overcapacity. The project will help stimulate the economy. Besides, the yearly cost would be small compared to the country's total revenue," he explained.

Geng argued that financing can also be raised through sponsorships and the sale of leases on future arable land.

But these economic reassurances do little to relax those whose concerns are environmental. Liu Shukun, a professor at the China Institute of Water Resources and Hydropower Research says he doesn't support the proposed project as it could "possibly lead to changes to the ecology in both Tibet and Xinjiang."

"We now advocate an 'ecological civilization.' Human beings, wildlife and the greater environment are all equal. We shouldn't seek to satisfy our own interests at the cost of ecological destruction," he noted.

Geng argues that humans have always transformed nature and Ren claims that the greening of the desert will increase biodiversity.

*An old idea*

The idea of sending Tibetan water to Xinjiang dates back to the late 1950s. March into the Desert, a famous work by meteorologist, geologist and educator Zhu Kezhen (1890-1974) that has long featured in Chinese schoolbooks, advises diverting water to Xinjiang's arid plains.

The plan to divert water from Tibet to northern parts of China, known as the Grand Western Water Diversion Plan, was heatedly discussed in the 1990s. Over the decade, 208 lawmakers and 118 political advisers raised proposals and motions on the plan, according to a 2006 report by the Southern Weekly.

Guo Kai, a self-taught hydrologist, is one of many experts who have spoken in favor of the project. "So much of the water of the Yarlung Zangbo runs out of China, it's a huge waste," said Guo, who has been pushing his own design for the project since the 1980s. 

His proposal to divert 200 billion cubic meters of water every year and send it to North and Northwest China through tunnels and pipelines has received wide support from military officers, including 118 major generals or above.

In 1999, with the support of central leaders, a team of scholars specializing water resources, climate, geology and civil engineering, including Guo, launched a 36-day investigation trip to the related area and came up with a positive report.

However, it faced a backlash from many other experts and officials, including Wang Sucheng, the then minister of the Ministry of Water Resources, who told the media the plan was unnecessary, unscientific and unfeasible. 

Wang Hao, an academician at the Chinese Academy of Engineering, and Xu Daoyi from the China Earthquake Administration, also opposed building high dams and tunnels in lofty mountains vulnerable to natural disasters. 

Opposition has also come from other countries. The Indian Minister of State for Environment and Forests Jairam Ramesh said in 2010 that New Delhi would not accept any plan to divert the Yarlung Zangbo, according to The Hindu newspaper. The river runs through China, India and Bangladesh and is also known as the Brahmaputra.

China's decision-makers have left the plan stranded. However, discussions can still be found regularly.

Wang Guangqian, a hydrologist and academician at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, proposes building canals and pipelines along the Qinghai-Tibet railway to divert water from the Yarlung Zangbo.

"[We] thought this wouldn't happen for 50 years but it is necessary now," Wang was quoted as saying by the First Financial Daily in 2011, citing China's growing demand for water, increasing desertification and shrinking groundwater reserves in North China.

Geng believes the route his diversions would take dodge the "earthquake belt." 

If a huge amount of water is diverted to Xinjiang and much of the region is turned into arable land, it could be a driver of precipitation in other northern parts of China, helping to dampen these dry regions, he said. Moreover, all the extra plant life that will grow will help fight global warming, he added.

Geng regularly shares his ideas online and sends letters to the government, hoping decision-makers reconsider the plan.

Ren recently set up a WeChat group to gather pro-diversion netizens together. They exchange ideas and suggestions on how to improve the plan and how it can be realized.

*Significance and side effects*

Chen Chuanyou, a water resource expert at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, believes diverting water from Tibet to the north will help guarantee the realization of the "Chinese dream."

"It's needed to prepare for drought. Though it seems that we don't lack water now, we need to nip shortages in the bud," Chen told the Global Times, citing that 10 massive droughts happened in North China from the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644) to the Republic of China (1912-1949) period, claiming tens of thousands of lives each time.

However, he doesn't think it is feasible to transform deserts that have existed for millions of years into farmland or forest. "The project would be too huge and the outcome is unpredictable." 

He proposes building tunnels and pipelines to connect rives such as the Yarlung Zangbo and the Nujiang to the Yangtze River, which would then allow the flow of water north through the middle route of the South to North Water Diversion Project.

As for the reaction of downriver countries, both Chen and Ren believe their worries can be solved through diplomacy. "The areas the Yarlung Zangbo runs into are rich in rainfall. We could only divert water in the rainy season. The project can help control floods in those countries," Ren said.

In addition, experts say the impact of diverting water from the river's upper reaches will be small. According to the Chinese Academy of Sciences, the natural surface runoff of the Yarlung Zangbo is 828 billion cubic meters per year, of which only 14.61 percent is produced in China.

Geng believes that diverting water to Xinjiang will help attract people to move there from densely-populated and poverty-stricken areas, which will promote stability. 

However, Mei says that the huge cost of the project may increase the tax burden on citizens in coastal areas and cause public anger, which will trigger social instability.

Whatever the future benefits or pitfalls of the project, some people are already using it to make money flow into their pockets.

In 2015, the Xinjiang-based Korla Evening Post reported police had busted several cases in which crooks faked documents and seals in the name of a State-funded water diversion project and cheated hundreds of people across the country who wanted to get involved.

_This article was first published in the Global Times._ 

https://sputniknews.com/asia/201708111056366357-scholars-project-water-tibet-xinjiang/

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## Nan Yang

Actually the longest man made river was built by Gaddafi. But it is no more. Bombed and destroyed by NATO. Even the factory that maintains it was not spared.


*Great Man-Made River*
The *Great Man-Made River* (*GMR*, النهر الصناعي العظيم) is a network of pipes that supplies water to the Sahara in Libya, from the Nubian Sandstone Aquifer System fossil aquifer. It is the world's largest irrigation project.[1]

According to its website, it is the largest underground network of pipes (2,820 kilometres (1,750 mi))[2] and aqueducts in the world. It consists of more than 1,300 wells, most more than 500 m deep, and supplies 6,500,000 m3 of fresh water per day to the cities of Tripoli, Benghazi, Sirte and elsewhere. It is also the world's largest irrigation project.[3] The late Libyan Leader Muammar Gaddafi described it as the "Eighth Wonder of the World.".[4] But in 2011 it was damaged by NATO, due to which Libya is still facing water shortages.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Man-Made_River

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> "Xinjiang has 1.1 million square kilometers of plains, equal in size to all the plains in the country's east. But less than 70,000 square kilometers are arable due to a shortage of water," he noted. "If all these plains are greened, another China will have been created."



That would indeed lead to yet another revolution in China, this time in agricultural production, more than ensuring food security and turning the country into the fruit-vegetable basket of the world.

I guess more deliberations are going to be made on this and, eventually, the plan will go forward. The employment created thanks to enlarged crop land only would justify the efforts. Perhaps some sections of the project is carried through public-private partnership, which would also help generate several large agriculture-farm corporations in China. 

Farming in Mainland China (and Taiwan) is still very local and very compartmentalized.

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## 21stCentury

This project would have the effect and prestige as the grand canal.

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## Safriz

Hope they fail.
China should stop playing with nature.
Deserts of central asia are the very reason we get Moonsoon rains.
These deserts get very hot in summer and create a suction pump which draws in moisture laden air from the oceans, to blow over many south Asian countries and give them their rainy season.
China has become drunk in power and money. They are doing things they dont understand much.


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## Clutch

شاھین میزایل said:


> Hope they fail.
> China should stop playing with nature.
> Deserts of central asia are the very reason we get Moonsoon rains.
> These deserts get very hot in summer and create a suction pump which draws in moisture laden air from the oceans, to blow over many south Asian countries and give them their rainy season.
> China has become drunk in power and money. They are doing things they dont understand much.



Interesting comment... concerning if it is actually the case. Thanks


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## Place Of Space

21stCentury said:


> This project would have the effect and prestige as the grand canal.



Better not to challenge the nature this way.


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## beijingwalker

Human history was , is and will be the process of constant challenging and changing the nature.

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## TaiShang

Nature is to be challenged, otherwise, no human progress. 

If we fall behind in the evolutionary progress, our vitality as a people will diminish and be outpaced by others.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*New cargo route links China Xinjiang with Ukraine*
Source: Xinhua| 2017-10-29 17:26:32|Editor: ying














A China-Europe freight train X9081 leaves Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, for Poltava, Ukraine, on Oct. 29, 2017. The train, carrying oil drilling equipment, left Urumqi Sunday noon and is bound for Poltava, Ukraine, via Kazakhstan and Russia. This is the first cargo train linking Xinjiang with Ukraine. The new route will cut the transportation time from more than two months by sea to just 15 days. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

URUMQI, Oct. 29 (Xinhua) -- A new China-Europe freight train route was launched Sunday in Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region.

The first train, carrying oil drilling equipment, left Urumqi Sunday noon and is bound for Poltava, Ukraine, via Kazakhstan and Russia. This is the first cargo train linking Xinjiang with Ukraine.

The new route will cut the transportation time from more than two months by sea to just 15 days, said Cheng Jingmin, deputy manager of Xinjiang Beiken Energy Engineering.

The company sent the equipment for a drilling project in Ukraine.

According to Cui Yumiao, deputy mayor of Karamay, the new route will serve as an important channel for enterprises in the city to expand their presence in overseas market along the Belt and Road.

With trade volume increasing between China and European countries in recent years, Urumqi has started to offer "point-to-point" customized services to cut transportation costs and time.

A total of 700 China-Europe freight trains are expected to depart from Xinjiang by the end of 2017.

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## cirr

4 routes opened in as many days

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

cirr said:


> 4 routes opened in as many days


The lines link people,tech,investment,moneys and products as well as informations!!!!!


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## beijingwalker

I knew sooner or later it would happen but never thought it can be this fast

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## beijingwalker

By Sarah Gray
October 30, 2017
Engineers in China are laying plans for what would be the world’s largest water tunnel at more than 600 miles.

The tunnel, which would stretch from Tibet to the Taklimakan Desert in Xinjiang province, would surpass the current record holder: a 85-mile tunnel that pipes water around New York City.

The planned 621-mile tunnel (1,000 km), would *transport water from the Yarlung Tsangpo River to the barren Xinjiang region, with the goal of turning the area “into California,*” an anonymous geotechnical engineer told the _South China Morning Post_.

There are major obstacles to this ambitious project, including objections by neighboring countries. The Yarlung Tsangpo River crosses the border with India to become the Brahmaputra River and later merges with the Ganges River in Bangladesh. Other potential roadblocks include the rugged terrain the tunnel must go under and environmental concerns.

“The more than 400 billion tonnes of water [the Tibetan Plateau] releases each year—almost enough to fill Lake Erie in the United States—also feeds the source of other major rivers, including the Yellow, Yangtze, Mekong (known in China as the Lancang) and the Ganges,” _The South China Morning Post_ reports.

“It will change the landscape of an entire region,” Zhou Shiqiao, who does research for the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Tibetan Plateau Research, told the _South China Morning Post_. “To my knowledge, no environmental evaluation has been carried out. The nature and scale of the impact remains in the dark.”

Zhang Chuanqing, a researcher with the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Rock and Soil Mechanics, said the project won’t start for another 10 years because of the cost and technology.


In the meantime, Zhang points to the 373-mile tunnel being built in the Yunnan province (on which construction started in August) as a test run for the longer Tibetan project. The Yunnan tunnel begins on the Yunnan-Guizhou Plateau, the second-highest plateau in the country after Tibet, making it a good model for its longer cousin, according to Zhang.

The Yunnan tunnel will be a big challenge because of its size—it will be wide enough to fit two high-speed trains—and the fact that it must cross earthquake fault lines.

“It is to show we have the brains, muscle and tools to build super-long tunnels in hazardous terrains, and the cost does not break the bank,” Zhang told the _South China Morning Post_,
http://fortune.com/2017/10/30/china-worlds-longest-water-tunnel/

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## beijingwalker



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## clarkgap

So many members post this stupid news. This project would never work.


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## beijingwalker

South North water diversion project, three gorges dam, Tibetan railway,Hong Kong–Zhuhai–Macau Bridge... When China says she will do it, it'll be done soon enough.

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## clarkgap

beijingwalker said:


> South North water diversion project, three gorges dam, Tibetan railway,Hong Kong–Zhuhai–Macau Bridge... When China says she will do it, it'll be done soon enough.



China government never said they will build such water tunnel. It is just a crazy proposal. Thousands of such proposal will be failed every year.


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## beijingwalker

clarkgap said:


> China government never said they will build such water tunnel. It is just a crazy proposal. Thousands of such proposal will be failed every year.


Let's wait and see, the government did the feasibility study on this project for already two decades already, it's not a mere coincidence that this decades old proposal surfaced again now right after Xi just consolidated his power.


"In 1999, with the support of central leaders, a team of scholars specializing water resources, climate, geology and civil engineering, including Guo, launched a 36-day investigation trip to the related area and came up with a positive report.

The plan has drawn lots of support, including from Ren. But Geng admits the whole project would cost an estimated 1.1 trillion yuan ($163.69 billion) and take at least 20 years to finish.

Mei says that Xinjiang cannot afford this project. "The region's GDP last year was only 900 billion yuan. But its expenditure was almost five times its income. It depends massively on central government subsidies and the assistance of local governments in other parts of China," Mei explained.

Wang Guangqian, a hydrologist and academician at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, proposes building canals and pipelines along the Qinghai-Tibet railway to divert water from the Yarlung Zangbo.

"[We] thought this wouldn't happen for 50 years but it is necessary now," Wang was quoted as saying by the First Financial Daily in 2011, citing China's growing demand for water, increasing desertification and shrinking groundwater reserves in North China."


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## clarkgap

beijingwalker said:


> Let's wait and see, the government did the feasibility study on this project for already two decades already, it's not a mere coincidence that this decades old proposal surfaced again now right after Xi just consolidated his power.
> 
> 
> "In 1999, with the support of central leaders, a team of scholars specializing water resources, climate, geology and civil engineering, including Guo, launched a 36-day investigation trip to the related area and came up with a positive report.
> 
> The plan has drawn lots of support, including from Ren. But Geng admits the whole project would cost an estimated 1.1 trillion yuan ($163.69 billion) and take at least 20 years to finish.
> 
> Mei says that Xinjiang cannot afford this project. "The region's GDP last year was only 900 billion yuan. But its expenditure was almost five times its income. It depends massively on central government subsidies and the assistance of local governments in other parts of China," Mei explained.
> 
> Wang Guangqian, a hydrologist and academician at the Chinese Academy of Sciences, proposes building canals and pipelines along the Qinghai-Tibet railway to divert water from the Yarlung Zangbo.
> 
> "[We] thought this wouldn't happen for 50 years but it is necessary now," Wang was quoted as saying by the First Financial Daily in 2011, citing China's growing demand for water, increasing desertification and shrinking groundwater reserves in North China."



Building a ban on Irtysh and Ili river is obviouly a more effiective scheme than building a water tunnel across Tanggula Mountain. Why do they not do this firstly.


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## Shahzaz ud din

*Officials deny Tibet-Xinjiang water diversion project exists
By Deng Xiaoci Source:Global Times Published: 2017/10/31 23:23:41
0



Yunnan water project designed to alleviate drought in province

China dismissed a report that the country is testing techniques in preparation for the building of a tunnel to carry water from Tibet to Xinjiang, which experts also say is unrealistic.

"This is untrue," foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said when asked to comment at a news conference in Beijing on Tuesday about the South China Morning Post (SCMP) report.

The SCMP on Monday quoted "experts" as saying that the ongoing construction of a 600-kilometer-long water tunnel in Southwest China's Yunnan Province would be a "rehearsal" of new technology, engineering methods and equipment needed for the tunnel, which is expected to extend as long as 1,000 kilometers, and would divert the Yarlung Zangbo River in the southern Tibet Autonomous Region to the Taklamakan Desert in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.

China was now taking a "quiet, step-by-step approach to bring it to life," the report quoted an expert surnamed Zhang, who "has played a key role in many major Chinese water tunnel projects," as saying.

The chief engineer of the Yunnan water tunnel project dismissed the report when interviewed by the Global Times. "There is no such direction from the central government, and I've never heard of any plan laid out for a Tibet-Xinjiang tunnel project," said Zhao Shijie, chief engineer of the Dianzhong water diversion project, a scheme in central Yunnan. 

Zhao told the Global Times that it is not the first time he has heard rumors about a Tibet-Xinjiang tunnel, but they are baseless.

The Yunnan water diversion project which involves tunnel construction works exceeding 600 kilometers is designed to address a severe water shortage in the province's central region. It began on August 4.

According to the People's Daily on August 7, with a total length of 661.07 kilometers, the diversion project will bring water from the Jinsha River to cities including Lijiang and Kunming. The construction is expected to take 96 months. 

The total fund for the Yunnan water diversion project is estimated at more than 78 billion yuan ($11.8 billion), according to a budget released in the second quarter of 2016, reported Yunnan.cn.

Huge cost

The idea of sending Tibetan water to Xinjiang dates back to the late 1950s. "March into the Desert," a famous article by meteorologist, geologist and educator Zhu Kezhen (1890-1974) that has long featured in Chinese schoolbooks, advises diverting water to Xinjiang's arid plains.

A plan to divert water from Tibet to the northern parts of China was heatedly discussed in the 1990s. Over the decade, 208 lawmakers and 118 political advisers raised proposals and motions on the plan, according to a 2006 report by the Southern Weekly.

However, the dream of massive water diversions has never been approved due to concerns of the huge cost and potential for damaging the landscape.

"I firmly oppose the project, as Xinjiang cannot afford this project," said Mei Xinyu, an associate researcher at the Chinese Academy of International Trade and Economic Cooperation.

The estimated cost of diverting water from Tibet to Xinjiang would be five times that of Xinjiang's annual GDP. 

It may depend massively on central government subsidies and the assistance of local governments in other regions, which likely would lead to social instability, Mei added.

*


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## samsara

Patriot & Ready said:


> Well if anyone can do it, China can


_If there is any one country that can accomplish a project of this scale of challenges,
that country will be the one and only one, CHINA!_​
I hope this project will get a go in not too distant future, and look forward to seeing its completion. It will be even more amazing to visit and see a *GREEN XINJIANG filled up with trees, forests, plantations*!!! And imagine a wish that was nurtured more than a century-long ago during the Qing Dynasty finally can be realized... may even grander than the other dream of linking Lhasa and Xining with railway, which was already realized in 2006. 天耀中华！But even before that I wish to visit this region, seeing with my eyes and experience the life at the ancient cities like Kashgar (Kashi); Kucha (Kuqa); Korla; Hotan (Hetian); Aksu; Turpan; Urumqi.

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## Tang_BJ

this project is under discussion and investigation for more than 30 years, someone have collected the related information, about 157 different proposals were submitted to People's Congress in these years. but this project is too aggressive and too difficult. maybe after Yunnan tunnel is finished and all system works well, gov will give a green light to this Big West Line project.

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## Shahzaz ud din

*A look at city landscape of Kashgar, NW China's Xinjiang*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2017/11/10 8:26:32
0






Aerial photo taken on Nov. 7, 2017 shows the scenery of city area in Kashgar, northwest China's XinjiangUygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Jiang Wenyao)






Aerial photo taken on Nov. 7, 2017 shows the scenery of the old city the economic and technological development zone in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)







Aerial photo taken on Oct. 22, 2017 shows the scenery of city area in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Jiang Wenyao)







Aerial photo taken on Nov. 7, 2017 shows the scenery of the economic and technological development zone in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)







Aerial photo taken on Nov. 7, 2017 shows the night view of Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Jiang Wenyao)







Aerial photo taken on Nov. 7, 2017 shows the scenery of old city area in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Xing Guangli)







Aerial photo taken on Nov. 8, 2017 shows the scenery of old city area in Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Xing Guangli)







Aerial photo taken on Nov. 7, 2017 shows the scenery of Kashgar, northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (Xinhua/Shen Bohan)

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

I love xinjiang region,i met a guy in.shanghai when i was in college, xinjiang people are really nice!

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## beijingwalker

*From kindergarten to high school, Xinjiang has 15 years of free education




*

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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang offers 15 years of free education to residents*

2017-11-21 09:36
Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, in Northwest China, will offer free high school education to all students in the region starting in December benefiting nearly 860,000 students, education regulators announced.

The move will provide every student in Xinjiang with 15 years of free education, covering three years of preschool, nine years of primary and middle school education and three years of high school or vocational training.

Tuition fees will be waived for students who will also receive free accommodation and textbooks. Subsidies will be provided to students from low-income families, according to the Xinjiang Daily on Monday.

Chinese experts say the policy not only showcases the government's ability to bring practical benefits to people living in less developed areas, but will also help sway Xinjiang youth from falling under the influence of extremist elements.

"We should keep in mind that teens are teens no matter where they grow up in China. Xinjiang's youth grow up in a more complicated situation." La Disheng, a professor at the Party School of the Communist Party of China Xinjiang regional committee, told the Global Times.

La stressed that providing universal free education in Xinjiang will serve as a foundation for their pursuit of a good life, and in turn help build a better China in the decades to come.

The policy does not differentiate students based on their ethnic background, which showcases the program's equality, noted Xiong Kunxin, a professor at Beijing's Minzu University of China.

Xiong told the Global Times that unlike previous policies favoring ethnic minority groups in Xinjiang, this reform is designed to lessen the sense of inequality felt by the local Han people.

Xinjiang had previously implemented a pre-school to middle school free education program for students in Southern Xinjiang's Kashgar, Hotan and Aksu prefectures, while students in the Kizilsu Kirgiz Autonomous Prefecture received a full 15 years of free education, according to People's Daily on Monday.

Xinjiang has also set aside 2.58 billion yuan ($170 million) to finance the region's 15-year free education program, and students from low-income families in rural areas will be included in the financial aid program, said the report.

Fruitful in the long run

Xinjiang is not the first region to provide free education. In 2015, Southwest China's Tibet Autonomous Region began to provide free 15-year education from primary to high school, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

Students in Qinghai Province's six Tibetan and Mongolian autonomous prefectures, together with those from poverty-stricken families in the provincial capital, were provided with the same 15-year free education in the spring of 2016.

La says the programs show China has become more capable of taking care of people from less developed areas.

Echoing La, Xiong said the move shows that China attaches growing importance to education, which will prove fruitful in the long run.
http://www.ecns.cn/2017/11-21/281683.shtml

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## BHarwana

Wow great decision. Encouraging education is a great thing. A big thumbs up for China. What china is doing is that how you build a strong future.

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## beijingwalker

First Tibet and now Xinjiang, let's hope that this policy could soon spread to other parts of China.
*Tibet offers 15 years of free education*

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang offers 15 years of free education*
(Xinhua) 13:24, November 21, 2017

URUMQI, Nov. 21 (Xinhua) -- As of Dec. 1, *nearly 860,000 high school students in Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region will receive free education, according to the regional education department Tuesday.*

Tuition, *textbook costs and accommodation fees will be waived for a total of 857,200 students studying in high schools as well as secondary vocational schools in Xinjiang. Extra subsidies will be provided to students from poor families.*

*Xinjiang has become China's first provincial-level region to offer 15 years of free education from pre-school to high school.* Previously, the region built or expanded more than 4,400 kindergartens for free bilingual (Chinese and Uygur) education for over a million pre-schoolers in rural areas.

The regional government also earmarked 2.58 billion yuan (390 million U.S. dollars) to implement the policy in rural and less developed southern areas.

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## Kyle Sun

Fking stupid policy.


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## beijingwalker

*An ethnic Russian Chinese accordian collector from China’s Xinjiang




*


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## Gurjot.S

URUMQI, China—*This city on China’s Central Asia frontier may be one of the most closely surveilled places on earth.*

Security checkpoints with identification scanners guard the train station and roads in and out of town. Facial scanners track comings and goings at hotels, shopping malls and banks. Police use hand-held devices to search smartphones for encrypted chat apps, politically charged videos and other suspect content.* To fill up with gas, drivers must first swipe their ID cards and stare into a camera.*

China’s efforts to snuff out a violent separatist movement by some members of the predominantly Muslim Uighur ethnic group have turned the autonomous region of Xinjiang, of which Urumqi is the capital, into a laboratory for high-tech social controls that civil-liberties activists say the government wants to roll out across the country.

It is nearly impossible to move about the region without feeling the unrelenting gaze of the government. Citizens and visitors alike must run a daily gantlet of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras and machines scanning their ID cards, faces, eyeballs and sometimes entire bodies.*
When fruit vendor Parhat Imin swiped his card at a telecommunications office this summer to pay an overdue phone bill, his photo popped up with an “X.” Since then, he says, every scan of his ID card sets off an alarm. He isn’t sure what it signifies, but figures he is on some kind of government watch list because he is a Uighur and has had intermittent run-ins with the police.*

He says he is reluctant to travel for fear of being detained. “They blacklisted me,” he says. “I can’t go anywhere.”

All across China, authorities are rolling out new technology to keep watch over people and shape their behavior. Controls on expression have tightened under President Xi Jinping, and the state’s vast security web now includes high-tech equipment to monitor online activity and even snoop in smartphone messaging apps.

China’s government has been on high alert since a surge in deadly terrorist attacks around the country in 2014 that authorities blamed on Xinjiang-based militants inspired by extremist Islamic messages from abroad. Now officials are putting the world’s most state-of-the-art tools in the hands of a ramped-up security force to create a system of social control in Xinjiang—one that falls heaviest on Uighurs.

At a security exposition in October, an executive of Guangzhou-based CloudWalk Technology Co., which has sold facial-recognition algorithms to police and identity-verification systems to gas stations in Xinjiang, called the region the world’s most heavily guarded place. According to the executive, Jiang Jun, for every 100,000 people the police in Xinjiang want to monitor, they use the same amount of surveillance equipment that police in other parts of China would use to monitor millions.


Authorities in Xinjiang declined to respond to questions about surveillance. Top party officials from Xinjiang said at a Communist Party gathering in Beijing in October that “social stability and long-term security” were the local government’s bottom-line goals.

Chinese and foreign civil-liberty activists say the surveillance in this northwestern corner of China offers a preview of what is to come nationwide.






A woman undergoes a facial-recognition check at a luxury mall in Urumqi.


*“They constantly take lessons from the high-pressure rule they apply in Xinjiang and implement them in the east,” says Zhu Shengwu, a Chinese human-rights lawyer who has worked on surveillance cases. “What happens in Xinjiang has bearing on the fate of all Chinese people.”*

During an October road trip into Xinjiang along a modern highway, two Wall Street Journal reporters encountered a succession of checkpoints that turned the ride into a strange and tense journey.

At Xingxing Gorge, a windswept pass used centuries ago by merchants plying the Silk Road, police inspected incoming traffic and verified travelers’ identities. The Journal reporters were stopped, ordered out of their car and asked to explain the purpose of their visit. Drivers, mostly those who weren’t Han Chinese, were guided through electronic gateways that scanned their ID cards and faces.






Farther along, at the entrance to Hami, a city of a half-million, police had the Journal reporters wait in front of a bank of TV screens showing feeds from nearby surveillance cameras while recording their passport numbers.


Surveillance cameras loomed every few hundred feet along the road into town, blanketed street corners and kept watch on patrons of a small noodle shop near the main mosque. The proprietress, a member of the Muslim Hui minority, said the government ordered all restaurants in the area to install the devices earlier this year “to prevent terrorist attacks.”

Days later, as the Journal reporters were driving on a dirt road in Shanshan county after being ordered by officials to leave a nearby town, a police cruiser materialized seemingly from nowhere. It raced past, then skidded to a diagonal stop, kicking up a cloud of dust and blocking the reporters’ car. An SUV pulled up behind. A half-dozen police ordered the reporters out of the car and demanded their passports.

An officer explained that surveillance cameras had read the out-of-town license plates and sent out an alert. “We check every car that’s not from Xinjiang,” he said. The police then escorted the reporters to the highway.

At checkpoints further west, iris and body scanners are added to the security arsenal.

Darren Byler, an anthropology researcher at the University of Washington who spent two years in Xinjiang studying migration, says the closest contemporary parallel can be found in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, where the Israeli government has created a system of checkpoints and biometric surveillance to keep tabs on Palestinians.

In Erdaoqiao, the neighborhood where the fruit vendor Mr. Imin lives, small booths known as “convenience police stations,” marked by flashing lights atop a pole, appear every couple of hundred yards. The police stationed there offer water, cellphone charging and other services, while also taking in feeds from nearby surveillance cameras.
Sources: Government procurement orders; iFlyTek Co.; Meiya Pico Information Co; Darren Byler, University of Washington; Human Rights Watch; police interviews; interviews with Uighurs in exile. 


Young Uighur men are routinely pulled into the stations for phone checks, leading some to keep two devices—one for home use and another, with no sensitive content or apps, for going out, according to Uighur exiles.

Erdaoqiao, the heart of Uighur culture and commerce in Urumqi, is where ethnic riots started in 2009 that resulted in numerous deaths. The front entrance to Erdaoqiao Mosque is now closed, as are most entries to the International Grand Bazaar. Visitors funnel through a heavily guarded main gate. The faces and ID cards of Xinjiang residents are scanned. An array of cameras keeps watch.

After the riots, authorities showed up to shut down the shop Mr. Imin was running at the time, which sold clothing and religious items. When he protested, he says, they clubbed him on the back of the head, which has left him walking with a limp. They jailed him for six months for obstructing official business, he says. Other jail stints followed, including eight months for buying hashish.

The police in Urumqi didn’t respond to requests for comment.

Mr. Imin now sells fruit and freshly squeezed pomegranate juice from a cart. He worries that his flagged ID card will bring the police again. Recently remarried, he hasn’t dared visit his new wife’s family in southern Xinjiang.







Chinese rulers have struggled for two millennia to control Xinjiang, whose 23 million people are scattered over an expanse twice the size of Texas. Beijing sees it as a vital piece of President Xi’s trillion-dollar “Belt and Road” initiative to build infrastructure along the old Silk Road trade routes to Europe.

Last year, Mr. Xi installed a new Xinjiang party chief, Chen Quanguo, who previously handled ethnic strife in Tibet, another hot spot. Mr. Chen pioneered the convenience police stations in that region, partly in response to a string of self-immolations by monks protesting Chinese rule.

Under Mr. Chen, the police presence in Xinjiang has skyrocketed, based on data showing exponential increases in police-recruitment advertising. Local police departments last year began ordering cameras capable of creating three-dimensional face images as well as DNA sequencers and voice-pattern analysis systems, according to government procurement documents uncovered by Human Rights Watch and reviewed by the Journal.

During the first quarter of 2017, the government announced the equivalent of more than $1 billion in security-related investment projects in Xinjiang, up from $27 million in all of 2015, according to research in April by Chinese brokerage firm Industrial Securities .

Government procurement orders show millions spent on “unified combat platforms”—computer systems to analyze surveillance data from police and other government agencies.

Tahir Hamut, a Uighur poet and filmmaker, says Uighurs who had passports were called in to local police stations in May. He worried he would draw extra scrutiny for having been accused of carrying sensitive documents, including newspaper articles about Uighur separatist attacks, while trying to travel to Turkey to study in the mid-1990s. The aborted trip landed him in a labor camp for three years, he says.

He and his wife lined up at a police station with other Uighurs to have their fingerprints and blood samples taken. He says he was asked to read a newspaper for two minutes while police recorded his voice, and to turn his head slowly in front of a camera.






Later, his family’s passports were confiscated. After a friend was detained by police, he says, he assumed he also would be taken away. He says he paid officials a bribe of more than $9,000 to get the passports back, making up a story that his daughter had epilepsy requiring treatment in the U.S. Xinjiang’s Public Security Bureau, which is in charge of the region’s police forces, didn’t respond to a request for comment about the bribery.

“The day we left, I was filled with anxiety,” he says. “I worried what would happen if we were stopped going through security at the Urumqi airport, or going through border control in Beijing.”

He and his family made it to Virginia, where they have applied for political asylum.






Annotations in red added by The Wall Street Journal. Notes: * Xinjiang considers it suspicious for Uighurs to visit a list of 26 mostly Muslim countries, including Turkey, Egypt, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Malaysia, Indonesia and Thailand. ** “Persons of interest” refers to people on the police watch list; “special population” is a common euphemism for Uighurs seen as separatists risks. Sources: Tahir Hamut (provided the form), Uighur Istiqlal TV and Adrian Zenz (confirmation of 26-country list).


Chinese authorities use forms to collect personal information from Uighurs. One form reviewed by the Journal asks about respondents’ prayer habits and if they have contacts abroad. There are sections for officials to rate “persons of interest” on a six-point scale and check boxes on whether they are “safe,” “average” or “unsafe.”

China Communications Services Co. Ltd., a subsidiary of state telecom giant China Telecom , has signed contracts this year worth more than $38 million to provide mosque surveillance and install surveillance-data platforms in Xinjiang, according to government procurement documents. The company declined to discuss the contracts, saying they constituted sensitive business information.

Xiamen Meiya Pico Information Co. Ltd. worked with police in Urumqi to adapt a hand-held device it sells for investigating economic crimes so it can scan smartphones for terrorism-related content.

A description of the device that recently was removed from the company’s website said it can read the files on 90% of smartphones and check findings against a police antiterror database. “Mostly, you’re looking for audio and video,” said Zhang Xuefeng, Meiya Pico’s chief marketing officer, in an interview.

Near the Xinjiang University campus in Urumqi, police sat at a wooden table recently, ordering some people walking by to hand over their phones.

“You just plug it in and it shows you what’s on the phone,” said one officer, brandishing a device similar to the one on Meiya Pico’s website. He declined to say what content they were checking for.

One recent afternoon in Korla, one of Xinjiang’s largest cities, only a trickle of people passed through the security checkpoint at the local bazaar, where vendors stared at darkened hallways empty of shoppers.

Li Qiang, the Han Chinese owner of a wine shop, said the security checks, while necessary for safety, were getting in the way of commerce. “As soon as you go out, they check your ID,” he said.






Shopkeepers perform an antiterrorism drill under police supervision outside the bazaar in Kashgar.



Authorities have built a network of detention facilities, officially referred to as education centers, across Xinjiang. In April, the official Xinjiang Daily newspaper said more than 2,000 people had been sent to a “study and training center” in the southern city of Hotan.

One new compound sits a half-hour drive south of Kashgar, a Uighur-dominated city near the border with Kyrgyzstan. It is surrounded by imposing walls topped with razor wire, with watchtowers at two corners. A slogan painted on the wall reads: “All ethnic groups should be like the pods of a pomegranate, tightly wrapped together.”

Villagers describe it as a detention center. A man standing near the entrance one recent night said it was a school and advised reporters to leave.

Mr. Hamut, the poet, says a relative in Kashgar was taken to a detention center after she participated in an Islamic ceremony, and another went missing soon after the family tried to call him from the U.S.

The local government in Kashgar didn’t respond to a request for comment.





Police officers at a gate in the Old City of Kashgar.



Surveillance in and around Kashgar, where Han Chinese make up less than 7% of the population, is even tighter than in Urumqi. Drivers entering the city are screened intensively. A machine scans each driver’s face. Police officers inspect the engine and the trunk. Passengers must get out and run their bags through X-ray machines.

In Aksu, a dusty city a five-hour drive east of Kashgar, knife salesman Jiang Qiankun says his shop had to pay thousands of dollars for a machine that turns a customer’s ID card number, photo, ethnicity and address into a QR code that it lasers into the blade of any knife it sells. “If someone has a knife, it has to have their ID card information,” he says.

On the last day the Journal reporters were in Xinjiang, an unmarked car trailed them on a 5 a.m. drive to the Urumqi airport. During their China Southern Airlines flight to Beijing, a flight attendant appeared to train a police-style body camera attached to his belt on the reporters. Later, as passengers were disembarking, the attendant denied filming them, saying it was common for airline crew to wear the cameras as a security measure.


https://www.wsj.com/articles/twelve...llance-state-overwhelms-daily-life-1513700355

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## Beast

WSJ? More or less tells you something... Make up or spinning news.

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## nang2

well, if people choose violence, let them have the payback, too.

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## Jlaw

Beast said:


> WSJ? More or less tells you something... Make up or spinning news.


China government making China safer. I applaud this move. A little inconvenience for safety is good trade off

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## beijingwalker

That's what it takes to make a would be terrorist hotbed where radicals may bomb themselves up and kill dozens of people on monthly basis into a peaceful , stable , fast growing and prosperous popular tourist destination.

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## Place Of Space

Send the reporters a journey to Mosul, no surveillance camera is there...lol

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## Kuru

I don't blame China for this. It's a good way to contain the separatists/terrorists.

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## kankan326

Kuru said:


> I don't blame China for this. It's a good way to contain the separatists/terrorists.


Democracy, freedom and human right won't stop terrorists. In fact they kinda encourage terrorists.

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## TaiShang

India gets to become the rape capital of the world probably partly because a lack of surveillance and police corruption which allows the police conspire with the criminal.

As for surveillance, the more the better. It is never enough. In Taiwan we have surveillance in every possible corner and public place and we are extremely safe and secure.

By the way, WSJ is a FAKE NEWS media, as per the President of the US. 

They will lie and spin and promote terrorism not even between the teeth, but out loud. 

That's why the US media has lost any credibility it had.

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## ARMalik

Article written by Wall Street Journal. What a load of Bolloc..ks. Yet another negative propaganda at its best. Only the US is God's gift to this Earth. Everyone else existing on this planet is just pathetic and evil.

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## beijingwalker

*Peace in Xinjiang is vital to whether China's One Belt. One Road will succeed




*

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## sinait

I rather have the surveillance than to live in fear of being blown or hacked to pieces.
Well done China !
.

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## nang2

Not just Xinjiang, pretty much every other Chinese city has extensive surveillance. There are cameras everywhere. One thing I noticed is that people aren't afraid of withdrawing a large amount of cash from banks. It is fairly normal to watch people ask a large sum, say 300K, from bank tellers. Any attempt to rob them will get caught quickly.

I think London is expanding its surveillance coverage, too.

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## Rollno21

It might be creepy of others but for chinese it might be normal as the posts of Chinese posters say.


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## beijingwalker

Rollno21 said:


> It might be creepy of others but for chinese it might be normal as the posts of Chinese posters say.


Tell my why you worry? Do you want to do something bad? otherwise I don't see any reason. I don't make love on the street or defecate in the public, why I need to worry?

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## nang2

Rollno21 said:


> It might be creepy of others but for chinese it might be normal as the posts of Chinese posters say.


In reality, this feeling creepy usually comes from a false sense of privacy. In China, it is predictable. People are being watched at every public place. In other countries, people are still being watched in the public but they don't know when and where exactly they are watched. It feels better when one pretends that nobody is watching him.


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## Shajida Khan

BEIJING (AP) — Zhang Haitao was a rare voice in China, a member of the ethnic Han majority who for years had criticized the government on social media for its treatment of the minority Muslim Uighurs.

Zhang's wife had long feared some sort of backlash despite her husband's relative obscurity. He was a working-class electronics salesman, unknown even to most Uighur activists. So she worried that authorities might block his social media accounts, or maybe detain him. Instead he was arrested and prosecuted for subversion and espionage. His punishment: 19 years in prison.

"They wanted to make an example of him, to scare anyone who might question what they do in the name of security," Zhang's wife, Li Aijie, told The Associated Press earlier this week, one day after she arrived in the United States and asked for political asylum. "Even someone who knows nothing about law would know that his punishment made no sense."

Elsewhere in China, Zhang would have been sentenced to no more than three years, said his lawyer, Li Dunyong, and may not have been prosecuted at all.

*TRANSLATOR*
To read this article in one of Houston's most-spoken languages, click on the button below.








But Xinjiang, the tense northwestern region where most Uighurs live, has been enveloped in recent years in a vast dragnet of police surveillance , which authorities insist is needed to root out separatism and Islamic extremism. Zhang, who moved to Xinjiang from central Henan province more than a decade ago in search of work, wondered in his social media posts whether these policies were stoking resentment among Uighurs. He warned that China's restrictions on the Uighurs' religious practices risked sparking an insurgency.

But questioning government policies in Xinjiang has become an untouchable third rail in today's China.

Court records say Zhang was convicted of sending 274 posts from 2010 to 2015 on Twitter and the Chinese social media service WeChat that "resisted, attacked and smeared" the Communist Party and its policies, earning him 15 years in prison for inciting subversion of state power. He was given another five years for talking to foreign reporters and providing photos of the intense police presence in the streets of Xinjiang. That, the court said, amounted to providing intelligence about China's anti-terror efforts to foreign organizations.

The court said it would combine the two punishments and sentence him to 19 years in prison.

He was convicted in January 2016. An appeals court in December 2016 refused to hear his petition, noting he had never expressed regret or admitted guilt.

Hoping to draw attention to Zhang's plight, Li provided her husband's court documents and letters from jail to the AP, as well as her own account.

The daughter of a farming family in Henan's hardscrabble hill country, Li met Zhang in 2011 after stumbling across a personal ad he had arranged to have placed in a local park where singles sought partners. The flier said he sold wireless routers and listed his modest height: 168 centimeters (5-foot-6). On their first date, when Zhang was back home in Henan, he wore a jacket with threadbare cuffs but showed Li his identity card in an awkward attempt to prove he was genuine.

That simple directness was something she grew to love, Li said, but it was also Zhang's downfall. He had been repeatedly warned by police about his social media activity, but he always ignored them.

When the authorities finally arrested him in 2015, they told Li he was suspected of inciting ethnic hatred. The charges were raised to subversion and espionage, Li suspects, after he refused to confess. In a letter he wrote to Li and his sister earlier this year, Zhang described how Nelson Mandela, who spent nearly three decades in prison, had become an inspiration.

"Life must have greater meaning beyond the material. Our mouths are not just for eating, but also for speaking out," Zhang wrote.

While the severity of Zhang's sentence stands out, others in the region have been punished for mild criticism.

Ma Like, a Muslim hostel owner in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar, was accused in April of "propagating extremism" because he had retweeted two Weibo posts — one about how Chinese policies were alienating Uighurs, the other a veiled reference to restrictions on the Islamic headdress — according to two of Ma's friends, who provided copies of Ma's indictment and spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of government retaliation.

Wang Lixiong, a Han Chinese writer and dissident, said that when it comes to Xinjiang, even calls for dialogue can result in imprisonment.

"The government removes the middle road so it leaves two extremes," Wang said. "You're either their mortal enemy or their slave."

Zhang was arrested when Li was three months pregnant. She gave birth to their son two years ago, while he was being held in a desert prison. She returned home to Henan to raise him and began blogging and speaking to the overseas media.

The authorities tried to silence Li, pounding on her front door as she did a phone interview, for example, and threatening to derail the careers of her two brothers, low-level government workers.

Li's family begged her to divorce Zhang, even give up their child.

When words didn't sway her, in October her siblings and parents beat her, leaving her bruised on the family home's floor.

"I cannot hate them," Li said. "They were trying to resist enormous pressure. But after that, I had nowhere to go."

A month ago, she sneaked away and made her way to Bangkok. With the help of U.S. aid organizations, she flew to Texas, where a host family had been found for her, and where she hopes to start a new life with her son.

When she files her asylum paperwork, she lists the boy's legal name.

But in quiet moments, she calls him by his nickname: Xiao Man De La.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...s-Xinjiang-even-mild-critics-are-12458350.php


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## SBUS-CXK

Shajida Khan said:


> BEIJING (AP) — Zhang Haitao was a rare voice in China, a member of the ethnic Han majority who for years had criticized the government on social media for its treatment of the minority Muslim Uighurs.
> 
> Zhang's wife had long feared some sort of backlash despite her husband's relative obscurity. He was a working-class electronics salesman, unknown even to most Uighur activists. So she worried that authorities might block his social media accounts, or maybe detain him. Instead he was arrested and prosecuted for subversion and espionage. His punishment: 19 years in prison.
> 
> "They wanted to make an example of him, to scare anyone who might question what they do in the name of security," Zhang's wife, Li Aijie, told The Associated Press earlier this week, one day after she arrived in the United States and asked for political asylum. "Even someone who knows nothing about law would know that his punishment made no sense."
> 
> Elsewhere in China, Zhang would have been sentenced to no more than three years, said his lawyer, Li Dunyong, and may not have been prosecuted at all.
> 
> *TRANSLATOR*
> To read this article in one of Houston's most-spoken languages, click on the button below.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But Xinjiang, the tense northwestern region where most Uighurs live, has been enveloped in recent years in a vast dragnet of police surveillance , which authorities insist is needed to root out separatism and Islamic extremism. Zhang, who moved to Xinjiang from central Henan province more than a decade ago in search of work, wondered in his social media posts whether these policies were stoking resentment among Uighurs. He warned that China's restrictions on the Uighurs' religious practices risked sparking an insurgency.
> 
> But questioning government policies in Xinjiang has become an untouchable third rail in today's China.
> 
> Court records say Zhang was convicted of sending 274 posts from 2010 to 2015 on Twitter and the Chinese social media service WeChat that "resisted, attacked and smeared" the Communist Party and its policies, earning him 15 years in prison for inciting subversion of state power. He was given another five years for talking to foreign reporters and providing photos of the intense police presence in the streets of Xinjiang. That, the court said, amounted to providing intelligence about China's anti-terror efforts to foreign organizations.
> 
> The court said it would combine the two punishments and sentence him to 19 years in prison.
> 
> He was convicted in January 2016. An appeals court in December 2016 refused to hear his petition, noting he had never expressed regret or admitted guilt.
> 
> Hoping to draw attention to Zhang's plight, Li provided her husband's court documents and letters from jail to the AP, as well as her own account.
> 
> The daughter of a farming family in Henan's hardscrabble hill country, Li met Zhang in 2011 after stumbling across a personal ad he had arranged to have placed in a local park where singles sought partners. The flier said he sold wireless routers and listed his modest height: 168 centimeters (5-foot-6). On their first date, when Zhang was back home in Henan, he wore a jacket with threadbare cuffs but showed Li his identity card in an awkward attempt to prove he was genuine.
> 
> That simple directness was something she grew to love, Li said, but it was also Zhang's downfall. He had been repeatedly warned by police about his social media activity, but he always ignored them.
> 
> When the authorities finally arrested him in 2015, they told Li he was suspected of inciting ethnic hatred. The charges were raised to subversion and espionage, Li suspects, after he refused to confess. In a letter he wrote to Li and his sister earlier this year, Zhang described how Nelson Mandela, who spent nearly three decades in prison, had become an inspiration.
> 
> "Life must have greater meaning beyond the material. Our mouths are not just for eating, but also for speaking out," Zhang wrote.
> 
> While the severity of Zhang's sentence stands out, others in the region have been punished for mild criticism.
> 
> Ma Like, a Muslim hostel owner in the ancient Silk Road city of Kashgar, was accused in April of "propagating extremism" because he had retweeted two Weibo posts — one about how Chinese policies were alienating Uighurs, the other a veiled reference to restrictions on the Islamic headdress — according to two of Ma's friends, who provided copies of Ma's indictment and spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of government retaliation.
> 
> Wang Lixiong, a Han Chinese writer and dissident, said that when it comes to Xinjiang, even calls for dialogue can result in imprisonment.
> 
> "The government removes the middle road so it leaves two extremes," Wang said. "You're either their mortal enemy or their slave."
> 
> Zhang was arrested when Li was three months pregnant. She gave birth to their son two years ago, while he was being held in a desert prison. She returned home to Henan to raise him and began blogging and speaking to the overseas media.
> 
> The authorities tried to silence Li, pounding on her front door as she did a phone interview, for example, and threatening to derail the careers of her two brothers, low-level government workers.
> 
> Li's family begged her to divorce Zhang, even give up their child.
> 
> When words didn't sway her, in October her siblings and parents beat her, leaving her bruised on the family home's floor.
> 
> "I cannot hate them," Li said. "They were trying to resist enormous pressure. But after that, I had nowhere to go."
> 
> A month ago, she sneaked away and made her way to Bangkok. With the help of U.S. aid organizations, she flew to Texas, where a host family had been found for her, and where she hopes to start a new life with her son.
> 
> When she files her asylum paperwork, she lists the boy's legal name.
> 
> But in quiet moments, she calls him by his nickname: Xiao Man De La.
> 
> https://www.houstonchronicle.com/ne...s-Xinjiang-even-mild-critics-are-12458350.php
> ----
> Interesting that Pakistani see no ummah in Chinese muslims. @hussain0216


Take care of yourself.
Xinjiang is completely different from Kashmir, Manipur, Assam...

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## Shajida Khan

Two said:


> Take care of yourself.
> Xinjiang is completely different from Kashmir, Manipur, Assam...
> 
> View attachment 445144


Lol! what the hell does this weird map has to do with this topic. The report was given by a Chinese Think Tank to Chinese government. Why the you are brining India into this? I thought Chinese were SUPA HIGH IQ ppl? May be it is the language barrier.

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## jetray

Two said:


> Take care of yourself.


hope you are safe we dont want any harm fall on you. Now we understand why you post such things.


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## jetray

Shajida Khan said:


> Lol! what the hell does this weird map has to do with this topic. The report was given by a Chinese Think Tank to Chinese government. Why the you are brining India into this? I thought Chinese were SUPA HIGH IQ ppl? May be it is the language barrier.


do understand his situation, there is nothing much he can do. 
Just think of the punishment.


Shajida Khan said:


> 15 years in prison





Shajida Khan said:


> five years for talking to foreign reporters





Shajida Khan said:


> 19 years in prison





Shajida Khan said:


> repeatedly warned by police about his social media activity





Shajida Khan said:


> held in a desert prison





Shajida Khan said:


> silence Li, pounding on her front door





Shajida Khan said:


> threatening to derail the careers





Shajida Khan said:


> begged her to divorce





Shajida Khan said:


> give up their child





Shajida Khan said:


> siblings and parents beat her





Shajida Khan said:


> resist enormous pressure

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## SBUS-CXK

jetray said:


> do understand his situation, there is nothing much he can do.
> Just think of the punishment.


Basically this is a good story, but the question is. . . How to make Indians living in China believe it?


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## cirr

China's Xinjiang is at least 20 years ahead of India in terms of economic and social development.

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## jetray

Two said:


> Basically this is a good story, but the question is. . . How to make Indians living in China believe it?


ok dude I agree with whatever you say, just keep looking over your shoulders every now and then.

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## SBUS-CXK

Shajida Khan said:


> Lol! what the hell does this weird map has to do with this topic. The report was given by a Chinese Think Tank to Chinese government. Why the you are brining India into this? I thought Chinese were SUPA HIGH IQ ppl? May be it is the language barrier.





jetray said:


> hope you are safe we dont want any harm fall on you. Now we understand why you post such things.





cirr said:


> China's Xinjiang is at least 20 years ahead of India in terms of economic and social development.


*Latest photos of Urumqi*

In 2017, the industrial investment in Xinjiang reached 461 billion RMB (about 70 billion USD). The investment in the manufacturing sector is 280 billion RMB (about 40 billion USD). Key projects are petrochemical industry, textile industry, light industry, equipment manufacturing, non-ferrous industry, information industry, pharmaceutical industry.

http://xj.people.com.cn/n2/2017/0228/c188514-29781073.html

The tunnel boring machine is made in Xinjiang.






=================================================
Please forgive me despise the indians.



jetray said:


> ok dude I agree with whatever you say, just keep looking over your shoulders every now and then.


Thanks, but before that, you should have a full meal.
I heard that you are more hungry than North Korea. Is that true?

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## SBUS-CXK

Shajida Khan said:


> THIS THREAD IS ABOUT CHINA! GET IT THROUGH YOUR SUPA HIGH IQ SKULL!
> 
> 
> How is economic development related to this topic? And how does India figure into this discussion?
> 
> @The Eagle @waz your 'brothers' seem to misunderstand your own rules  Reported for off-topic


Calm down, we're just telling the truth. India lags behind Xinjiang for 20 years. 
And you have a good story, but we have reality.



Shajida Khan said:


> Oh well, sometimes back I was have some discussion with this @Two . So we were talking about how Chinese government has been using some weird and demeaning terminology for her people who go and work in bigger cities. The guy almost mellowed down and told me that he is also one of those kind. After that I understood that probably this is the only time he feels somewhat free and proud. On the internet, on a Pakistani forum, dissing India/Indians on topics having no bearing with India. So yeah you are right! It seems like a coping mechanism.


No, you really don't know us. We just look down on Indians. It's so simple.

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## Shajida Khan

Two said:


> Calm down, we're just telling the truth. India lags behind Xinjiang for 20 years.
> And you have a good story, but we have reality.


Yeah, it is just a story. Right?   Just like last time, Chinese government cann't do such things

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## Sully3

Two said:


> Take care of yourself.
> Xinjiang is completely different from Kashmir, Manipur, Assam...
> 
> View attachment 445144


death by a thousand cuts 

welcome to modern day India alongside the countless insurgencies and rapes and poverty the Indians of the internet will tell you its a supa power ready to take on both China and Pakistan on both fronts

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## beijingwalker

People in Xinjiang live a peaceful and prosperous life, unlike Indians, they are well taken care by the government. West of Xinjiang many countries are in wars and anarchy, Xinjiang is a shining modern role model in central Asia.


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## nang2

"Every man has a right to utter what he thinks truth, and every other man has a right to knock him down for it. Martyrdom is the test." -- Samuel Johnson


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang and Afghanistan are next door neighbors. Where do Indians want to live? "repressive Xinjiang" or "Free democratic" Afghanistan? Of course nowhere even comes close to shining India.

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## Shajida Khan

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang and Afghanistan are next door neighbors. Where do Indians want to live? "repressive Xinjiang" or "Free democratic" Afghanistan? Of course nowhere even comes close to shining India.


Neither, we will live in India or West. China is a hell hole police state and Afghanistan is facing immense violence.

Especially not after reading this

*Nearly 10 Percent of Residents of a Xinjiang Township Detained by Chinese Authorities*

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/detained-12142017140125.html

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/near...nship-detained-by-chinese-authorities.535993/

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## Shajida Khan

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/claims-12222017145043.html


*Historians Dismiss Chinese Claims to Xinjiang Based on Han Dynasty Literature*





A copy of the Book of Han is displayed at the Tianyi Chamber library in Ningbo, Zhejiang province, in a file photo.

Recent government efforts to link northwest China’s majority Uyghur Xinjiang region to territorial claims associated with an ancient Chinese imperial dynasty “lack scientific standing” and are part of a bid by Beijing to legitimize repressive policies in the area, according to scholars.

Beijing has made repeated claims it says are based on ancient literature that China established the “Protectorate of the Western Regions” in 60 B.C., during the 202 B.C.-A.D. 8 period of the Western Han Dynasty, which exercised military and administrative jurisdiction over what is now Xinjiang.

But in a report last week, the official Xinhua news agency announced that on Dec. 8, Chinese historians, archaeologists, ethnologists, and research scholars took part in a conference in Bugur (in Chinese, Luntai) county, in Xinjiang’s Bayin’gholin Mongol (Bayinguoleng Menggu) Autonomous Prefecture, to study “a significant breakthrough in locating the site” of the Protectorate.

During the conference, specialists and researchers delivered speeches on topics including “The Rule of the Uyghur Region Under the Protectorate of the Western Region,” “Chinese Culture to Become The Leading Culture in Xinjiang,” and the location of the Protectorate.

*The article did not mention the site of the archaeological dig in Bugur or any of the evidence to support the claim.*

A day later, Xinhua reported that “after four years of archaeological study,” researchers had “basically confirmed” that the so-called “Yuqikate” ancient city, near Aksu (Akesu) prefecture’s Toksu (Xinhe) county, was the location of the Protectorate during the A.D. 25-220 period of the Eastern Han Dynasty.

“Based on the city size, unearthed relics and literature, archaeologists from institutions in Xinjiang and Beijing have confirmed that the city was the Protectorate of the Western Regions during the Eastern Han Dynasty,” the report said.

*While the Chinese historian Ban Gu (A.D. 32-92) mentions the Protectorate of the Western Regions in his “Book of Han,” which was completed after his death in A.D. 111 and covers the period of the Western Han Dynasty, he fails to provide an exact location or evidence of his claim of its existence.*

The recent claims about the Protectorate follow a speech in August this year by chairman of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) Yu Zhengsheng, who called for the “correcting of the wrong understanding of Xinjiang’s history, ethnicity, religion, and culture,” and an earlier statement by Xinjiang Party Secretary Chen Quanguo urging archaeologists to remember that Xinjiang “has always been Chinese territory.”

*‘Laughable’ claims*

*Overseas historians have challenged the Chinese government’s claims about the Protectorate, while Uyghur groups in exile say the assertions are part of a bid by Beijing to further exert control over Xinjiang, where members of the mostly Muslim ethnic group complain of religious and cultural repression and harassment under Chinese rule.*

*Zhu Shuyuan, a Chinese historian living in the U.S., told RFA’s Uyghur Service that the Protectorate of the Western Regions “only exists on paper” and called the claim “laughable.” *

“It is possible that the army of the Han Dynasty travelled to the southern areas of [Xinjiang capital] Urumqi in the western region, but the number of soldiers were few,” he said.

*“In reality, they have never ruled the region, neither did they collect taxes from the people. The number one factor in governing a region is that the residents must pay taxes, which are collected by the army.”*

Representatives of a state cannot claim a distant land simply because they have travelled there, Zhu said.

*“If that was the case … Marco Polo visited China—can we say that China belongs to Marco Polo and the Italians?” he asked.*

“Such claims bear no scientific value. It is laughable to think that the Chinese claim the territory simply because their people visited the region.”

U.S.-based Uyghur Kahar Barat, an independent researcher specializing in Uyghur and Chinese history and the culture of the Silk Road, told RFA that Beijing’s claims “have no scientific standing.”

“The Chinese government’s intention is to establish historical evidence in order to support their territorial expansion and repressive policy in the Uyghur region,” he said.

“At that time, [the dynasty was based] in Chang’an [in modern day Shanxi province’s Xi’an city] or Luoyang [in Henan province], but they established the ‘Protectorate of the Western Region.’ If that is so, then even Iran and the Arab territories could have become part of China. This is not something you can sit and declare, it requires authentic and historical evidence.”

Barat noted that the claims of a Protectorate were first written during the Han Dynasty from a “one-sided perspective” in a book that “provides no historic or archaeological evidence.”

“That is the basis upon which the Chinese government has put so much effort into furthering this claim,” he said.

*‘Expansionist intentions’*

Ilshat Hassan, the president of Washington-based exile group Uyghur American Association (UAA), said claims by Beijing that “Xinjiang is an inseparable part of China” have “no historic basis.

He noted that the name Xinjiang translates to “New Territory” in the Chinese language, suggesting it had not always been occupied by China.

The People’s Republic of China, which was formed by Mao Zedong in 1949, was not the successor to the Han Dynasty, which ended in A.D. 220, Hassan said, and therefore cannot legally claim the territories allegedly occupied by the Han at that time.

He said such claims are as ridiculous as if the Mongolian government claimed that China has been an inseparable part of Mongolia since ancient times because the Mongols occupied it for nearly two centuries during the reign of Genghis Khan, or if the Italian government claimed all of the territories formerly occupied by the Roman Empire.

“This claim only proves the Chinese Communist Party’s imperialistic mindset and expansionist intentions,” he said.


----------

China's habitual expansionist agenda on full display. Shameless revision of history, laughable claims and oppressive regime. Pakistan better beware! Next Chinese will claim that Han Dynasty ruled Multan

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## Shajida Khan

*Nearly 10 Percent of Residents of a Xinjiang Township Detained by Chinese Authorities*

http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/detained-12142017140125.html

Authorities in northwest China’s Xinjiang region have detained nearly 10 percent of the population of a township in ethnic Uyghur-dominated Kashgar (in Chinese, Kashi) prefecture, according to sources, following an incident three years ago.

A former resident of Kashgar Kona Sheher (Shufu) county’s Bullaqsu township recently told RFA’s Uyghur Service in a letter that “a large number of people” have been arrested in the county this year, leaving some townships with “hardly any males to be seen.”

Bullaqsu was one of the townships most affected by the arrests in Kashgar Kona Sheher, where “groups of people have been arrested and sent to detention centers every week,” said the former resident, who now lives in exile and asked to remain unnamed.

In mid-September 2014, a number of police officers attempted to remove the headscarves of two Uyghur women at the Wednesday Market held in the county seat, prompting two Uyghur men to come to their defense, the source said.

The two men were arrested by police, but around 200 people surrounded the officers and prevented them from bringing them to the local station, he said.

All of those involved were “punished” later that year, according to the former resident, who added that the incident was never reported in either state or foreign media. Chinese state media are heavily censored and foreign reporters have limited access to Xinjiang.

Since Xinjiang Communist Party chief Chen Quanguo was appointed to his post in August last year, a series of harsh policies have been initiated targeting Uyghurs in the region, where members of the mostly Muslim ethnic group complain of religious and cultural repression and harassment under Chinese rule.

The source suggested that authorities in Kashgar Kona Sheher have targeted residents in response to the market incident as part of an ongoing crackdown that has seen thousands of Uyghurs accused of harboring “extremist” and “politically incorrect” views detained in political re-education camps and prisons throughout Xinjiang since April.

The county Criminal Investigation Department was unable to confirm whether any residents had been detained in connection with the incident or the number of people currently in detention when contacted by RFA.

But an official with the Bullaqsu Office of the Judiciary said there are currently more than 3,300 of the township’s 36,000 residents detained in either prison or re-education camps.

“According to the information I have, 2,514 [people are imprisoned] … but that information is a bit old and I do not have the latest statistics,” he said.

It had been around a month since the latest figures were released, he said, but 57 people had been imprisoned since then. Of those sentenced to jail, the longest term was 20 years, he added.

“The most imprisoned are from [Bullaqsu’s] No. 1, 2, 7, and 14 Villages,” the official said.

Additionally, he said, 806 people from the township are currently held in re-education camps.

*Mass detentions*

Officials in Hotan (Hetian) prefecture’s Qaraqash (Moyu) county recently told RFA that they had been ordered to send 40 percent of area residents to re-education camps, and said they were having trouble meeting the quota.

Reports suggest similar orders have been given in other areas of the region, and that authorities are detaining as many Uyghurs as possible in re-education camps and jail, regardless of their age, prior service to the Communist Party, or the severity of the accusations against them.

The ongoing crackdown has also seen students who traveled to Egypt for Islamic studies being rounded up by Egyptian authorities at China's behest, with some taken back to China and most held incommunicado. The incarceration of large numbers of Uyghur males has put pressure on women and children to take over farm chores in Xinjiang.

China regularly conducts “strike hard” campaigns in Xinjiang, including police raids on Uyghur households, restrictions on Islamic practices, and curbs on the culture and language of the Uyghur people, including videos and other material.

While China blames some Uyghurs for “terrorist” attacks, experts outside China say Beijing has exaggerated the threat and that repressive policies in Xinjiang are responsible for an upsurge in violence there that has left hundreds dead since 2009.

-----
So much for highly developed Xinjiang!


----------



## Figaro

Shajida Khan said:


> http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/claims-12222017145043.html
> 
> 
> *Historians Dismiss Chinese Claims to Xinjiang Based on Han Dynasty Literature*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A copy of the Book of Han is displayed at the Tianyi Chamber library in Ningbo, Zhejiang province, in a file photo.
> 
> Recent government efforts to link northwest China’s majority Uyghur Xinjiang region to territorial claims associated with an ancient Chinese imperial dynasty “lack scientific standing” and are part of a bid by Beijing to legitimize repressive policies in the area, according to scholars.
> 
> Beijing has made repeated claims it says are based on ancient literature that China established the “Protectorate of the Western Regions” in 60 B.C., during the 202 B.C.-A.D. 8 period of the Western Han Dynasty, which exercised military and administrative jurisdiction over what is now Xinjiang.
> 
> But in a report last week, the official Xinhua news agency announced that on Dec. 8, Chinese historians, archaeologists, ethnologists, and research scholars took part in a conference in Bugur (in Chinese, Luntai) county, in Xinjiang’s Bayin’gholin Mongol (Bayinguoleng Menggu) Autonomous Prefecture, to study “a significant breakthrough in locating the site” of the Protectorate.
> 
> During the conference, specialists and researchers delivered speeches on topics including “The Rule of the Uyghur Region Under the Protectorate of the Western Region,” “Chinese Culture to Become The Leading Culture in Xinjiang,” and the location of the Protectorate.
> 
> *The article did not mention the site of the archaeological dig in Bugur or any of the evidence to support the claim.*
> 
> A day later, Xinhua reported that “after four years of archaeological study,” researchers had “basically confirmed” that the so-called “Yuqikate” ancient city, near Aksu (Akesu) prefecture’s Toksu (Xinhe) county, was the location of the Protectorate during the A.D. 25-220 period of the Eastern Han Dynasty.
> 
> “Based on the city size, unearthed relics and literature, archaeologists from institutions in Xinjiang and Beijing have confirmed that the city was the Protectorate of the Western Regions during the Eastern Han Dynasty,” the report said.
> 
> *While the Chinese historian Ban Gu (A.D. 32-92) mentions the Protectorate of the Western Regions in his “Book of Han,” which was completed after his death in A.D. 111 and covers the period of the Western Han Dynasty, he fails to provide an exact location or evidence of his claim of its existence.*
> 
> The recent claims about the Protectorate follow a speech in August this year by chairman of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference (CPPCC) Yu Zhengsheng, who called for the “correcting of the wrong understanding of Xinjiang’s history, ethnicity, religion, and culture,” and an earlier statement by Xinjiang Party Secretary Chen Quanguo urging archaeologists to remember that Xinjiang “has always been Chinese territory.”
> 
> *‘Laughable’ claims*
> 
> *Overseas historians have challenged the Chinese government’s claims about the Protectorate, while Uyghur groups in exile say the assertions are part of a bid by Beijing to further exert control over Xinjiang, where members of the mostly Muslim ethnic group complain of religious and cultural repression and harassment under Chinese rule.*
> 
> *Zhu Shuyuan, a Chinese historian living in the U.S., told RFA’s Uyghur Service that the Protectorate of the Western Regions “only exists on paper” and called the claim “laughable.” *
> 
> “It is possible that the army of the Han Dynasty travelled to the southern areas of [Xinjiang capital] Urumqi in the western region, but the number of soldiers were few,” he said.
> 
> *“In reality, they have never ruled the region, neither did they collect taxes from the people. The number one factor in governing a region is that the residents must pay taxes, which are collected by the army.”*
> 
> Representatives of a state cannot claim a distant land simply because they have travelled there, Zhu said.
> 
> *“If that was the case … Marco Polo visited China—can we say that China belongs to Marco Polo and the Italians?” he asked.*
> 
> “Such claims bear no scientific value. It is laughable to think that the Chinese claim the territory simply because their people visited the region.”
> 
> U.S.-based Uyghur Kahar Barat, an independent researcher specializing in Uyghur and Chinese history and the culture of the Silk Road, told RFA that Beijing’s claims “have no scientific standing.”
> 
> “The Chinese government’s intention is to establish historical evidence in order to support their territorial expansion and repressive policy in the Uyghur region,” he said.
> 
> “At that time, [the dynasty was based] in Chang’an [in modern day Shanxi province’s Xi’an city] or Luoyang [in Henan province], but they established the ‘Protectorate of the Western Region.’ If that is so, then even Iran and the Arab territories could have become part of China. This is not something you can sit and declare, it requires authentic and historical evidence.”
> 
> Barat noted that the claims of a Protectorate were first written during the Han Dynasty from a “one-sided perspective” in a book that “provides no historic or archaeological evidence.”
> 
> “That is the basis upon which the Chinese government has put so much effort into furthering this claim,” he said.
> 
> *‘Expansionist intentions’*
> 
> Ilshat Hassan, the president of Washington-based exile group Uyghur American Association (UAA), said claims by Beijing that “Xinjiang is an inseparable part of China” have “no historic basis.
> 
> He noted that the name Xinjiang translates to “New Territory” in the Chinese language, suggesting it had not always been occupied by China.
> 
> The People’s Republic of China, which was formed by Mao Zedong in 1949, was not the successor to the Han Dynasty, which ended in A.D. 220, Hassan said, and therefore cannot legally claim the territories allegedly occupied by the Han at that time.
> 
> He said such claims are as ridiculous as if the Mongolian government claimed that China has been an inseparable part of Mongolia since ancient times because the Mongols occupied it for nearly two centuries during the reign of Genghis Khan, or if the Italian government claimed all of the territories formerly occupied by the Roman Empire.
> 
> “This claim only proves the Chinese Communist Party’s imperialistic mindset and expansionist intentions,” he said.
> 
> 
> ----------
> 
> China's habitual expansionist agenda on full display. Shameless revision of history, laughable claims and oppressive regime. Pakistan better beware! Next Chinese will claim that Han Dynasty ruled Multan


I stopped reading after I saw the RFA or Radio Free Asia publisher, which is second only to the all so revered Epoch Times  ... if you want to prove your point, please try to find some better and less biased sources (meaning don't use Western propaganda outlets ...)

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## Shajida Khan

Figaro said:


> I stopped reading after I saw the RFA or Radio Free Asia publisher, which is second only to the all so revered Epoch Times  ... if you want to prove your point, please try to find some better and less biased sources (meaning don't use Western propaganda websites ...)


Oh yeah and Chinese propaganda sites like Global Times are all okay, right?   Chinese and their duplicity. BTW why don't you change your flags to their right color.

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## nang2

Uyghur is not majority in Xinjiang. In fact, no ethnic group there can claim majority.


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## Figaro

nang2 said:


> Uyghur is not majority in Xinjiang. In fact, no ethnic group there can claim majority.


Don't worry about this poster ... he is deluded. Indian posters spend so much time finding trashy articles to bash China and Pakistan that they don't even take care of their own country (which remains a cesspool). Indians seem more preoccupied with other nations than itself ... it explains the current state they're in

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## sinait

Shajida Khan said:


> Neither, *we will live in India *or West. China is a hell hole police state and Afghanistan is facing immense violence.
> 
> Especially not after reading this
> 
> *Nearly 10 Percent of Residents of a Xinjiang Township Detained by Chinese Authorities*
> 
> http://www.rfa.org/english/news/uyghur/detained-12142017140125.html
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/near...nship-detained-by-chinese-authorities.535993/


Good for you, Kashmir is a nice high security place for you.
Nagaland is another nice place in India for you, with its high security by the AFSPA, Armed Forces Special Powers, unless you are a woman, then maybe not.




https://www.mcgilldaily.com/2016/11/the-atrocities-of-the-armed-forces-special-powers-act/
*The atrocities of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act*
There are numerous documented accounts of the Indian army committing heinous crimes against the residents of the North Eastern states of India, under the protection of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). *It allows them to shoot to kill*, arrest on tenuous pretext, conduct warrantless searches, and demolish structures in the name of “restoring public order.” *There is also a provision that precludes trials against any officer for an act that is protected within the confines of the AFSPA.*

After reading the above, many will conclude Xinjiang is very much safer than having these Indian cowboys with licence to rape and kill at will with no fear of prosecution, and they have killed and raped many in Kashmir and the North East of India.
.

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## jetray

sinait said:


> Good for you, Kashmir is a nice high security place for you.
> Nagaland is another nice place in India for you, with its high security by the AFSPA, Armed Forces Special Powers, unless you are a woman, then maybe not.
> View attachment 445324
> 
> https://www.mcgilldaily.com/2016/11/the-atrocities-of-the-armed-forces-special-powers-act/
> *The atrocities of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act*
> There are numerous documented accounts of the Indian army committing heinous crimes against the residents of the North Eastern states of India, under the protection of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). *It allows them to shoot to kill*, arrest on tenuous pretext, conduct warrantless searches, and demolish structures in the name of “restoring public order.” *There is also a provision that precludes trials against any officer for an act that is protected within the confines of the AFSPA.*
> 
> After reading the above, many will conclude Xinjiang is very much safer than having these Indian cowboys with licence to rape and kill at will with no fear of prosecution, and they have killed and raped many in Kashmir and the North East of India.
> .


The moment when you divert from the main topic as a face saving measure we know that information is correct.

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## Indus Pakistan

If this is true. I agree. I would love Pakistan to detain 10% of the countries scumbags. Religious profiteers [they call themselves mullahs] and every madaris staff/students.


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## Shajida Khan

nang2 said:


> Uyghur is not majority in Xinjiang. In fact, no ethnic group there can claim majority.



https://cpianalysis.org/2016/03/07/spatial-results-of-the-2010-census-in-xinjiang/


> In the Xinjiang 2010 census, Uyghur account for 45.84%, Han 40.48%, Kazakh 6.50%, Hui 4.51% and the rest account for 2.67%. In 2010 all ethnic minority groups amount to 59.52%. The only region in China that has a higher percentage of ethnic minorities is Tibet.




http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26414014


> The largest of China's administrative regions, Xinjiang borders eight countries - Mongolia, Russia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India - *and until recently its population was mostly Uighur*.



Uyghur were a dominant populace of xinjiang 'Autonomous' region. Even today they are in majority. Han migration is changing demographics.

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## Shajida Khan

Kaptaan said:


> If this is true. I agree. I would love Pakistan to detain 10% of the countries scumbags. Religious profiteers [they call themselves mullahs] and every madaris staff/students.


And what will you say if India detains 10% of Kashmiris? Those who raise separatist voices?


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## SBUS-CXK

Shajida Khan said:


> Yeah, it is just a story. Right?   Just like last time, Chinese government cann't do such things


indian... So Chinese look down on Indians, do you understand?

*Indian Authorities Unleashed Excessive Force Against Kashmir Protesters*

Tell me —— Xinjiang can make tunnel borer. What can Kashmir make?


----------



## lcloo

LOL！ Propaganda articles from RFA (Radia Free Asia) , which is a CIA operation. Breaking up China is their evil motive, nothing else.



*Radio Free Asia*

*The CIA launched Radio Free Asia (RFA) in 1951 as an extension of its global anti-Communist propaganda radio network*. RFA beamed its signal into mainland China from a transmitter in Manila, and its operations were based on the earlier Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberation From Bolshevism model.

The CIA quickly discovered that their plan to foment political unrest in China had one major flaw: the Chinese were too poor to own radios.







Here’s a bit from a fantastic three-page spread *published by The New York Times in 1977, investigating the CIA’s role in global propaganda efforts, including Radio Free Asia*: Radio Free Asia began broadcasting to mainland China in 1951 from an elaborate set of transmitters in Manila. It was an arm of the Committee for Free Asia [later changed to "The Asia Foundation"], and the C.I.A. thought of it as the beginning of an operation in the Far East that would rival Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty….


The Asia Foundation was headed for years by the late Robert Blum, who, several sources said, resigned from the C.I.A. to take it over. The foundation provided cover for at least one C.I.A. operative and carried out a variety of media-related ventures, including a program, begun in 1955, of selecting and paying the expenses of Asian journalists for a year of study in Harvard's prestigious Neiman Fellowship program….

It was only after Radio Free Asia's transmitters were operating, according to sources familiar with the case, that the C.I.A. realized that there were almost no radio receivers in private hands in mainland China. An emergency plan was drawn up.

Balloons, holding small radios tuned to Radio Free Asia's frequency, were lofted toward the mainland from the island of Taiwan, where the Chinese Nationalists had fled after the Communist takeover of the mainland in 1949. The plan was abandoned when the balloons were blown back to Taiwan across the Formosa Strait. The CIA supposedly shuttered Radio Free Asia in the mid-1950s, but another Radio Free Asia reappeared a decade later, this time funded through a CIA-Moonie outfit called the Korean Culture and Freedom Foundation (KCFF) — a group based in Washington, D.C. that was run by a top figure in South Korea's state intelligence agency, Colonel Bo Hi Pak, who also served as the “principle evangelist” of cult leader Rev. Sun-Myung Moon of the Unification Church.

This new Moonie iteration of Radio Free Asia was controlled by the South Korean government, including the country’s own CIA, the "KCIA." It enjoyed high-level support from within the first Nixon Administration and even featured then-Congressman Gerald Ford on its board. According to an FBI file on Rev. Moon, Radio Free Asia “at the height of the Vietnam war produced anti-communist programs in Washington and beamed them into China, North Korea and North Vietnam.”

Radio Free Asia got busted in a widespread corruption scandal in the late 1970s, when the South Korean government was investigated for using the Moonie cult to influence US public opinion in order to keep the US military engaged against North Korea. Back in the 1970s, the Moonies were the most notorious cult in the United States, accused of abducting and "brainwashing" countless American youths. How it was that the CIA's Radio Free Asia was handed off to the Moonies was never quite explained, but given laws banning the CIA (or the KCIA) from engaging in psychological warfare in the US, the obvious thing to do was to bury Radio Free Asia long enough for everyone to forget about it.

No sooner had Radio Free Asia vanished amid scandal than it reappeared again, Terminator-like, in the 1990s — this time as a legit “independent” nonprofit wholly controlled by the BBG and funded by Congress.

Although this latest version of Radio Free Asia was supposed to be a completely new organization and was no longer as covert and B-movie spooky, its objectives and tactics remained exactly the same: *To this day it beams propaganda into the same Communist countries, including North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China, and Burma, and fiddles around in the same sorts of spooky adventures.*

For instance: In 2011, The New York Times revealed that Radio Free Asia, along with the State Department, was involved in burying cellphones inside North Korea on its border with China, so that North Koreans could use the RFA cellphones to report to the West on conditions inside their country. That same year, following the death of Kim Jong Il, Radio Free Asia “kicked into 24/7 emergency mode” to beam non-stop coverage of the death into North Korea in the hopes of triggering a mass uprising. BBG officials clung to the hope that, bit by bit, Radio Free Asia’s stream of anti-Communist propaganda would bring democracy and freedom to North Korea. They like to cite a study showing that “elite” defectors from North Korea were increasingly listening to Radio Free Asia, as proof that their efforts are working.

*Radio Free Asia and Anti-government Hacktivists*

Which brings us up to the present, when the Broadcasting Board of Governors, Radio Free Asia and its offshoot, the Open Technology Fund, find themselves in bed with many of the very same privacy activist figures whom the public regards as the primary adversaries of outfits like Radio Free Asia and the BBG. And it's technology that brings together these supposed adversaries — the US National Security State on the one hand, and "hacktivist", "anti-government" libertarian privacy activists on the other:

“I’m proud to be a volunteer OTF advisor,” declared Cory Doctorow, editor of BoingBoing and a well-known libertarian anti-surveillance activist/author.

"Happy to have joined the Open Technology Fund's new advisory council,” tweeted Jillian York, the Director for International Freedom of Expression at the Electronic Frontier Foundation. (York recently admitted that the OTF's "Internet freedom" agenda is, at its core, about regime change, but bizarrely argued that it didn't matter.)

In 2012, just a few months after Radio Free Asia's 24/7 propaganda blitz into North Korea failed to trigger regime change, RFA sent folks from the Tor Project — including core developer Jacob Appelbaum (pictured above) — into Burma, just as the military dictatorship was finally agreeing to hand political power over to US-backed pro-democracy politicians. The stated purpose of Appelbaum's RFA-funded expedition was to probe Burma’s Internet system from within and collect information on its telecommunications infrastructure — which was then used to compile a report for Western politicians and “international investors” interested in penetrating Burma’s recently opened markets. Here you can see Appelbaum’s visa — published in the report as evidence of what you needed to do to buy a SIM card in Burma.

Burma is a curious place for American anti-surveillance activists funded by Radio Free Asia to travel to, considering that it has long been a target of US regime-change campaigns. In fact, the guru of pro-Western "color revolutions," Gene Sharp, wrote his famous guide to non-violent revolutions, “From Dictatorship to Democracy”, initially as a guide for Burma’s opposition movement, in order to help it overthrow the military junta in the late 1980s. Sharp had crossed into Burma illegally to train opposition activists there — all under the protection and sponsorship of the US government and one Col. Robert Helvey, a military intelligence officer.

Jacob Appelbaum's willingness to work directly for *an old CIA cutout like Radio Free Asia in a nation long targeted for regime-change* is certainly odd, to say the least. Particularly since Appelbaum made a big public show recently claiming that, though it pains him that Tor takes so much money from the US military, he would never take money from something as evil as the CIA.

Ignorance is bliss.

Appelbaum's financial relationships with various CIA spinoffs like Radio Free Asia and the BBG go further. From 2012 through 2013, Radio Free Asia transferred about $1.1 million to Tor in the form of grants and contracts. This million dollars comes on top of another $3.4 million Tor received from Radio Free Asia's parent agency, the BBG, starting from 2007.

But Tor and Appelbaum are not the only ones happy to take money from the BBG/RFA.

Take computer researcher/privacy activist Harry Halpin, for example. Back in November of 2014, Halpin smeared me as a conspiracy theorist, and then falsely accused me and Pando of being funded by the CIA — simply because I reported on Tor’s government funding. Turns out that Halpin's next-generation secure communications outfit, called LEAP, took more than $1 million from Radio Free Asia’s Open Technology Fund. Somewhat ironically, LEAP's technology powers the VPN services of RiseUp.Net, the radical anarchist tech collective that provides activists with email and secure communications tools (and forces you to sign a thinly veiled anti-Communist pledge before giving you an account).

Then there's the ACLU’s Christopher Soghoian. A few months ago, he had viciously attacked me and Pando for reporting on Tor's US government funding. But just the other day, Soghoian went on Democracy Now, and in the middle of a segment criticizing the U.S. government's runaway hacking and surveillance programs, recommended that people use a suite of encrypted text and voice apps funded by the very same intelligence-connected U.S. government apparatus he was denouncing. Specifically, Soghoian recommended apps made by Open Whisper Systems, which got $1.35 million from Radio Free Asia's Open Technology Fund from 2013 through 2014.

He told Amy Goodman: "These are best-of-breed free applications made by top security researchers, and actually subsidized by the State Department and by the U.S. taxpayer. You can download these tools today. You can make encrypted telephone calls. You can send encrypted text messages. You can really up your game and protect your communications.”When Goodman wondered why the U.S. government would fund privacy apps, he acknowledged that this technology is a soft-power weapon of U.S. empire but then gave a very muddled and naive answer: *CHRISTOPHER SOGHOIAN:* Because they’re tools of foreign policy. You know, the U.S. government isn’t this one machine with one person, you know, dictating all of its policies. You have these different agencies squabbling, sometimes doing contradictory things. The U.S. government, the State Department has spent millions of dollars over the last 10 years to fund the creation and the deployment and improvement to secure communications and secure computing tools that were intended to allow activists in China and Iran to communicate, that are intended to allow journalists to do their thing and spread news about democracy without fear of interception and surveillance by the Chinese and other governments.


*AMY GOODMAN:* But maybe the U.S. government has a way to break in.

*CHRISTOPHER SOGHOIAN:* Well, you know, it’s possible that they’ve discovered flaws, but, you know, they have—the U.S. government hasn’t been writing the software. They’ve been giving grants to highly respected research teams, security researchers and academics, and these tools are about the best that we have. You know, I agree. I think it’s a little bit odd that, you know, the State Department’s funding this, but these tools aren’t getting a lot of funding from other places. And so, as long as the State Department is willing to write them checks, I’m happy that the Tor Project and Whisper Systems and these other organizations are cashing them. They are creating great tools and great technology that can really improve our security. And I hope that they’ll get more money in the future. It's convenient and nice to believe that one hand of the U.S. National Security State doesn't know what the other hand is doing — especially when the livelihoods of you and your colleagues depends on it. But as the long and dark covert intelligence history of the Broadcasters Board of Governors and Radio Free Asia so clearly shows, this thinking is naive and wrong. It also shows just how effectively the U.S. National Security State brought its opposition into the fold.

You'd think that anti-surveillance activists like Chris Soghoian, Jacob Appelbaum, Cory Doctorow and Jillian York would be staunchly against outfits like BBG and Radio Free Asia, and the role they have played — and continue to play — in working with defense and corporate interests to project and impose U.S. power abroad. Instead, these radical activists have knowingly joined the club, and in doing so, have become willing pitchmen for a wing of the very same U.S. National Security State they so adamantly oppose.


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## Shajida Khan

Two said:


> indian... So Chinese look down on Indians, do you understand?
> 
> *Indian Authorities Unleashed Excessive Force Against Kashmir Protesters*
> 
> Tell me —— Xinjiang can make tunnel borer. What can Kashmir make?


Why is a tunnel borer or Kashmir relevent to this discussion?


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## sinait

Figaro said:


> Don't worry about this poster ... he is deluded. Indian posters spend so much time finding trashy articles to bash China and Pakistan that they don't even take care of their own country (which remains a cesspool). Indians seem more preoccupied with other nations than itself ... it explains the current state they're in


I think the best is to just ignore this poster.
Let the thread be empty, don't reply and *don't feed this troll*.
Its funny Indians are concerned about conditions in other countries with far better standard of living while their pathetic India is drowning in shit with the worlds largest population of poor.

Indians concerns may be better placed in solving the looming demographic disaster and this.
https://qz.com/1152683/indian-it-layoffs-in-2017-top-56000-led-by-tcs-infosys-cognizant/
*56,000 layoffs and counting: India’s IT bloodbath this year may just be the start*
.

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## SBUS-CXK

Shajida Khan said:


> Why is a tunnel borer or Kashmir relevent to this discussion?


Oh, India only killed innocent civilians in Kashmir?


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## Shajida Khan

Two said:


> indian... So Chinese look down on Indians, do you understand?


We give no shit about Chinese opinion of India or Indians. We think that Chinese are a bunch of oppressed people who cann't even decry their local government without getting disappeared. So yeah, I know you have to write this because otherwise you will made a 低端人口

Seriously, I don't want this to happen to you :


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## Indus Pakistan

Shajida Khan said:


> And what will you say if India detains 10% of Kashmiris? Those who raise separatist voices?


I take it you have never heard of the saying "one man's terrorist is another* other* man's freedom fighter". Guess, what? I am the *other *man.

And *don't* conflate Sinkiang Uighur with Kashmir. The former is *not* subject of UN resolutions, most emphatically does not have *LOC* running through it *dividing* it into half or *contested* by two countries since 1948.


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## Shajida Khan

Kaptaan said:


> former is *not* subject of UN resolutions, most emphatically does not have *LOC* running through it *dividing* it into half or *contested* by two countries since 1948.


So you can only be sympathetic to those who are subject of UN resolutions? Thats some really nice bureaucratic criteria!

BTW in reality Kashmiri themselves don't want anything to do with either of India or Pakistan but thats a discussion for someother time.


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## Indus Pakistan

Shajida Khan said:


> really nice


That's because I am a nice person.


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## Samlee

*Radio Free Asia* Now It's Just Sad


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## SBUS-CXK

Shajida Khan said:


> We give no shit about Chinese opinion of India or Indians. We think that Chinese are a bunch of oppressed people who cann't even decry their local government without getting disappeared. So yeah, I know you have to write this because otherwise you will made a 低端人口
> 
> Seriously, I don't want this to happen to you :
> View attachment 445362


I'm sorry, I'm a 低端人口. This is our self satire. It's a great pleasure to get your attention.
Now look at a more low 低端人口







Shajida Khan said:


> We give no shit about Chinese opinion of India or Indians. We think that Chinese are a bunch of oppressed people who cann't even decry their local government without getting disappeared. So yeah, I know you have to write this because otherwise you will made a 低端人口
> 
> Seriously, I don't want this to happen to you :
> View attachment 445362


Look at the low 低端人口 from India in China



































Shajida Khan said:


> We give no shit about Chinese opinion of India or Indians. We think that Chinese are a bunch of oppressed people who cann't even decry their local government without getting disappeared. So yeah, I know you have to write this because otherwise you will made a 低端人口
> 
> Seriously, I don't want this to happen to you :
> View attachment 445362


LOL, I found too much India super 低端人口 in China.
I even found that Obama's brother lived in China for 15 years. He said that Indians are the most suitable for slaves. Oh, please don't forget India's 18 million modern slaves and Dalit.

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## Nan Yang

Shajida Khan said:


> Uyghur were a dominant populace of xinjiang 'Autonomous' region. Even today they are in majority. Han migration is changing demographics.



I do not blame you if you do not know the history of the Uigher people.

The northern half of Xinjiang where Urumqi is situated were never traditional Uigher land. Uigher have always been in the Tarim basin where they are still a large majority.

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## nang2

Shajida Khan said:


> https://cpianalysis.org/2016/03/07/spatial-results-of-the-2010-census-in-xinjiang/
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-26414014
> 
> 
> Uyghur were a dominant populace of xinjiang 'Autonomous' region. Even today they are in majority. Han migration is changing demographics.


You are from India where parliamentary democracy is in practice. Would you tell me the difference between majority government and minority government? If you know the difference, you certainly know what "majority" means and then come back look at your data again.


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## Mista

Who cares really? The Qing conquered it, and today the PRC is the successor to the Qing. And today the PRC is composed of 56 ethnic groups.

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## Pangu

The real question is, what can these numbnuts do about it?

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## ChineseTiger1986

Shajida Khan said:


> Oh yeah and Chinese propaganda sites like Global Times are all okay, right?   Chinese and their duplicity. BTW why don't you change your flags to their right color.



At least the Chinese media outlet won't deny other people's history.

When you are disrespecting our history, then don't expect any respect from us.

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## 8888888888888

It is a historical fact that the Han dynasty had forts in Xingjiang.

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## IblinI

Such a sad story and indeed an evil nation, thank you for telling us Radio Free Asia。

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## sinait

jetray said:


> The moment when you divert from the main topic as a face saving measure we know that information is correct.


No.
I have never been to China, so cannot comment on conditions there, except from what I read from unbiased sources.

I find Indians concern for China which has much success in alleviating their poor and improving their economy and quality of life far better than pathetic India amusing, and so I thought it is good that I show some concern also for Indians and remind them to save their misplaced concern for their disintegrating nation instead.
.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang is the single most developed region in central Asia which India can only dream to become. Indians believe that developed, rich and prosperous Xinjiang is a shit hole while neighboring India occupied Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria are paradise.

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## Jlaw

sinait said:


> Good for you, Kashmir is a nice high security place for you.
> Nagaland is another nice place in India for you, with its high security by the AFSPA, Armed Forces Special Powers, unless you are a woman, then maybe not.
> View attachment 445324
> 
> https://www.mcgilldaily.com/2016/11/the-atrocities-of-the-armed-forces-special-powers-act/
> *The atrocities of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act*
> There are numerous documented accounts of the Indian army committing heinous crimes against the residents of the North Eastern states of India, under the protection of the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA). *It allows them to shoot to kill*, arrest on tenuous pretext, conduct warrantless searches, and demolish structures in the name of “restoring public order.” *There is also a provision that precludes trials against any officer for an act that is protected within the confines of the AFSPA.*
> 
> After reading the above, many will conclude Xinjiang is very much safer than having these Indian cowboys with licence to rape and kill at will with no fear of prosecution, and they have killed and raped many in Kashmir and the North East of India.
> .


I'm sure some RSSers here were jerking off to the pic

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## kankan326

It is always suspicious when you see innocent Muslims claim they are oppressed by non-muslim government.

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## jetray

sinait said:


> No.
> I have never been to China, so cannot comment on conditions there, except from what I read from unbiased sources.
> 
> I find Indians concern for China which has much success in alleviating their poor and improving their economy and quality of life far better than pathetic India amusing, and so I thought it is good that I show some concern also for Indians and remind them to save their misplaced concern for their disintegrating nation instead.
> .


 By diverting from the topic you just proved my point.
The information is indeed correct.


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## 大汉奸柳传志

Two said:


> I'm sorry, I'm a 低端人口. This is our self satire. It's a great pleasure to get your attention.
> Now look at a more low 低端人口
> View attachment 445363
> 
> 
> 
> Look at the low 低端人口 from India in China
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LOL, I found too much India super 低端人口 in China.
> I even found that Obama's brother lived in China for 15 years. He said that Indians are the most suitable for slaves. Oh, please don't forget India's 18 million modern slaves and Dalit.



I've seen plenty Indians and Sikhs working as doormen here at some hotels and residential districts, don' t understand why. Maybe the developers and owners want to have some “exotic touch” to their facilities


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## 大汉奸柳传志

being a Protectorate region does not mean paying taxes directly to the central government, usually a small amount of tribute was payed annually as a symbol. I am quite shocked the hired "historian" does not have such knowledge

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## ARMalik

Indians are a really, really, really desperate nation. I wonder why? Perhaps the main reason is that *"India" itself was NEVER a nation in history. A landmass called India never existed as one nation*. It was a hurriedly "put together" make-shift nation made by British when they were leaving the sub-continent. And there is no doubt that india will die a natural death soon.

During a speech at the Constitutional Club in London on the 26th March 1931, Churchill said:

*"India is no more a political personality than Europe. India is a geographical term. It is no more a united nation than the Equator."*

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## sinait

utp45 said:


> I've seen plenty Indians and Sikhs working as doormen here at some hotels and residential districts, don' t understand why. Maybe the developers and owners want to have some “exotic touch” to their facilities


The doormen profession is tailor made for the Indians by their British masters.
Others will struggle to look the part, of a professional doorman.

Its the same in Singapore, it would look out of place if those digging the roads or carrying the rubbish are not Indians.
.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

*China has a million times stronger historical claim to Xinjiang than India has over Sikkim, Ladak and South Tibet.... all three under illegal, colonial occupation to present day!!!!*

Time is fast approaching for the greater reunification... from seas to mountains...

Patience is a Virtue!

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## jetray

Shajida Khan said:


> with an ancient Chinese


Its an ancient and outdated idea at the best. Next we will have chinese creating aesops fables supporting chinese occupation.

As usual chinese posters have resorted to going off topic to save the truth.



Shajida Khan said:


> *“If that was the case … Marco Polo visited China—can we say that China belongs to Marco Polo and the Italians?” he asked.*


lol, for chinese that logic wont apply here.

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## Yingluck

The Uighur came far later than Han Chinese. No mention of Uighur in Han dynasty. And Uighur hegemony in Xinjiang was established only after Manchus defeated the Dzungar Mongols.

As a matter of fact, Xinjiang was Mongol land and Buddhist even as late as Qing. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar_people


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## jetray

Shajida Khan said:


> Uyghur were a dominant populace of xinjiang 'Autonomous' region. Even today they are in majority. Han migration is changing demographics.


china has completely changed the demography of xinjiang. Another decade , uighurs percentage will be in single digit.

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## Yingluck

jetray said:


> china has completely changed the demography of xinjiang. Another decade , uighurs percentage will be in single digit.



China is the only country that can assimilate Islam and create neo-Muslims, to the chagrin of so many Sunni muslims.

Xinjiang is in Han Chinese hand because the Hui Muslims hated Uighur independence movement and sacrificed to pacify Xinjiang. Check out Hui Muslim general Ma Zhongying.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_East_Turkestan_Republic

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## Old School

The world map today is not a product of historians. It takes thousands of battles and ocean of blood to build a country. If historians to be believed , last night I quit smoking but today I have smoked five cigarettes. China became so big country because their ancestors had to work hard for it. They did not get it as a gift from someone.

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## AViet

Shajida Khan said:


> Oh yeah and Chinese propaganda sites like Global Times are all okay, right?   Chinese and their duplicity. BTW why don't you change your flags to their right color.



So where were ancestors of today Indian 2,000 years ago? 
and where were ancestors of today white American 2000 years ago.

Taking history records from 2000 years for today territorial claim is just laughable, and even China does not use this tactics for Xinjiang. Whether Han dynasty was in Xinjiang or not, it does not change the fact that Xinjiang is an integral part of China now and the world recognize it.

However, Kashmir and many states belong to India or not is still controversial. There was no country called India just 100 years ago. British India was surely not about today India. The India term at that time was similar to Africa, i.e. about geography rather than statehood.

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## lcloo

Map from:-
Tang Dynasty 700 AD from "The T'ang Dynasty, 618-906 A.D.-Boundaries of 700 A.D." Albert Herrmann (1935). _History and Commercial Atlas of China_. *Harvard University Press*.







1765 AD Qing Dynasty China Map, from CIA:-
_This image is a work of a *Central Intelligence Agency* employee, taken or made as part of that person's official duties. As a Work of the United States Government, this image or media is in the *public domain* in the United States.



_

British map of China. 1844 AD:-

China and Japan in 1844, by John Nicaragua Dower. Published in 1844 World Atlas by Henry Teesdale and Co., London. Provinces of China proper are in various colors with "Chinese Tartary" (Manchuria, Korea, Mongolia, and Tibet) in blue-green

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## beijingwalker

AViet said:


> So where were ancestors of today Indian 2,000 years ago?
> and where were ancestors of today white American 2000 years ago.
> 
> Taking history records from 2000 years for today territorial claim is just laughable, and even China does not use this tactics for Xinjiang. Whether Han dynasty was in Xinjiang or not, it does not change the fact that Xinjiang is an integral part of China now and the world recognize it.
> 
> However, Kashmir and many states belong to India or not is still controversial. There was no country called India just 100 years ago. British India was surely not about today India. The India term at that time was similar to Africa, i.e. about geography rather than statehood.


Well said, people come and go, the land remains, what matters is the present. back couples of hundred ago the world biggest country Russia was just a city state. demographic always changes and never stays the same. Uighurs themselves are not indigenous to Xinjjiang as well , they came from Mongolia, Indians really should spend a little time to learn some basic history.

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## Shajida Khan

AViet said:


> So where were ancestors of today Indian 2,000 years ago?
> and where were ancestors of today white American 2000 years ago.
> 
> Taking history records from 2000 years for today territorial claim is just laughable, and even China does not use this tactics for Xinjiang. Whether Han dynasty was in Xinjiang or not, it does not change the fact that Xinjiang is an integral part of China now and the world recognize it.
> 
> However, Kashmir and many states belong to India or not is still controversial. There was no country called India just 100 years ago. British India was surely not about today India. The India term at that time was similar to Africa, i.e. about geography rather than statehood.



I will only leave the following for your viewing pleasure! Upshot is all the countries have gone through historical upheaval of being divided and united, including China. 








rott said:


> Indian is a derogatory word. Even the native Americans didn't want anything to do with it. But the Indians in India embraced it completely and proud of it.
> @Shajida Khan


@The Eagle @waz @WebMaster looks our little puppy is too hurt and has resorted to troll. Put him down please and out of his misery. Post reported!


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## rott

Shajida Khan said:


> I will only leave the following for your viewing pleasure! Upshot is all the countries have gone through historical upheaval of being divided and united, including China.
> 
> View attachment 445497
> 
> 
> 
> @The Eagle @waz @WebMaster looks our little puppy is too hurt and has resorted to troll. Put him down please and out of his misery. Post reported!


You ever heard of Newton's third law? You troll and expect no reaction? Your thread is a troll thread. Your thread deserves nothing but troll.

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## Shajida Khan

rott said:


> You ever heard of Newton's third law? You troll and expect no reaction? Your thread is a troll thread. Your thread deserves nothing but troll.


Nope my thread is not a troll thread. It was merely a report published which takes a critical view on China's oft repeated 'historical claim'. It was only you who started violating forum rules and calling Indian will all sorts of names.


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## Götterdämmerung

The idiocy of Indians is legendary.


Shajida Khan said:


> I will only leave the following for your viewing pleasure! Upshot is all the countries have gone through historical upheaval of being divided and united, including China.
> 
> View attachment 445497
> 
> 
> 
> @The Eagle @waz @WebMaster looks our little puppy is too hurt and has resorted to troll. Put him down please and out of his misery. Post reported!



The idiocy of Indians is legendary. This particular bloody idiotic Indian might as well question the existence of the US since it started with only 13 states, all of them stolen from the indigenous peoples. And then, what about the other 37 states that became part of the US? The people who lived there were not of European stock. As a matter of fact, they were holocausted to mere 1% of the total population of the US.

Heck, 2000 years ago, southern Germany up to the river Main was part of the Roman empire and there was no German state anywhere. Is he going to question Germany's existence as well?

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## Jlaw

rott said:


> Indian is a derogatory word. Even the native Americans didn't want anything to do with it. But the Indians in India embraced it completely and proud of it.
> @Shajida Khan


. Lol, so true. They rather be called indigenous people or red skin. They don't want to be associated with low class Hindus.

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## lcloo

The article posted by the thread opener Shajda Khan is nothing but a propaganda aimed at helping seperatist terrorists to break up China. The source of the news is RFA (Radio Free Asia). 

Now, about RFA (Radio Free Asia):-

*Radio Free Asia
*
*The CIA launched Radio Free Asia (RFA) in 1951 as an extension of its global anti-Communist propaganda radio network*. *RFA beamed its signal into mainland China* from a transmitter in Manila, and its operations were based on the earlier Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberation From Bolshevism model.

The CIA quickly discovered that *their plan to foment political unrest in China* had one major flaw: the Chinese were too poor to own radios.






Here’s a bit from a fantastic three-page spread *published by The New York Times in 1977, investigating the CIA’s role in global propaganda efforts, including Radio Free Asia*: Radio Free Asia began broadcasting to mainland China in 1951 from an elaborate set of transmitters in Manila. It was an arm of the Committee for Free Asia [later changed to "The Asia Foundation"], and the C.I.A. thought of it as the beginning of an operation in the Far East that would rival Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty….


The Asia Foundation was headed for years by the late Robert Blum, who, several sources said, resigned from the C.I.A. to take it over. The foundation provided cover for at least one C.I.A. operative and carried out a variety of media-related ventures, including a program, begun in 1955, of selecting and paying the expenses of Asian journalists for a year of study in Harvard's prestigious Neiman Fellowship program….

It was only after Radio Free Asia's transmitters were operating, according to sources familiar with the case, that the C.I.A. realized that there were almost no radio receivers in private hands in mainland China. An emergency plan was drawn up.

Balloons, holding small radios tuned to Radio Free Asia's frequency, were lofted toward the mainland from the island of Taiwan, where the Chinese Nationalists had fled after the Communist takeover of the mainland in 1949. The plan was abandoned when the balloons were blown back to Taiwan across the Formosa Strait. The CIA supposedly shuttered Radio Free Asia in the mid-1950s, but another Radio Free Asia reappeared a decade later, this time funded through a CIA-Moonie outfit called the Korean Culture and Freedom Foundation (KCFF) — a group based in Washington, D.C. that was run by a top figure in South Korea's state intelligence agency, Colonel Bo Hi Pak, who also served as the “principle evangelist” of cult leader Rev. Sun-Myung Moon of the Unification Church.

This new Moonie iteration of Radio Free Asia was controlled by the South Korean government, including the country’s own CIA, the "KCIA." It enjoyed high-level support from within the first Nixon Administration and even featured then-Congressman Gerald Ford on its board. According to an FBI file on Rev. Moon, Radio Free Asia “at the height of the Vietnam war produced anti-communist programs in Washington and beamed them into China, North Korea and North Vietnam.”

Radio Free Asia got busted in a widespread corruption scandal in the late 1970s, when the South Korean government was investigated for using the Moonie cult to influence US public opinion in order to keep the US military engaged against North Korea. Back in the 1970s, the Moonies were the most notorious cult in the United States, accused of abducting and "brainwashing" countless American youths. How it was that the CIA's Radio Free Asia was handed off to the Moonies was never quite explained, but given laws banning the CIA (or the KCIA) from engaging in psychological warfare in the US, the obvious thing to do was to bury Radio Free Asia long enough for everyone to forget about it.

No sooner had Radio Free Asia vanished amid scandal than it reappeared again, Terminator-like, in the 1990s — this time as a legit “independent” nonprofit wholly controlled by the BBG and funded by Congress.

Although this latest version of Radio Free Asia was supposed to be a completely new organization and was no longer as covert and B-movie spooky, its objectives and tactics remained exactly the same: *To this day it beams propaganda into the same Communist countries, including North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China, and Burma, and fiddles around in the same sorts of spooky adventures.*

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## Jlaw

lcloo said:


> The article posted by the thread opener Shajda Khan is nothing but a propaganda aimed at helping seperatist terrorists to break up China. The source of the news is RFA (Radio Free Asia).
> 
> Now, about RFA (Radio Free Asia):-
> 
> *Radio Free Asia
> *
> *The CIA launched Radio Free Asia (RFA) in 1951 as an extension of its global anti-Communist propaganda radio network*. *RFA beamed its signal into mainland China* from a transmitter in Manila, and its operations were based on the earlier Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberation From Bolshevism model.
> 
> The CIA quickly discovered that *their plan to foment political unrest in China* had one major flaw: the Chinese were too poor to own radios.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s a bit from a fantastic three-page spread *published by The New York Times in 1977, investigating the CIA’s role in global propaganda efforts, including Radio Free Asia*: Radio Free Asia began broadcasting to mainland China in 1951 from an elaborate set of transmitters in Manila. It was an arm of the Committee for Free Asia [later changed to "The Asia Foundation"], and the C.I.A. thought of it as the beginning of an operation in the Far East that would rival Radio Free Europe and Radio Liberty….
> 
> 
> The Asia Foundation was headed for years by the late Robert Blum, who, several sources said, resigned from the C.I.A. to take it over. The foundation provided cover for at least one C.I.A. operative and carried out a variety of media-related ventures, including a program, begun in 1955, of selecting and paying the expenses of Asian journalists for a year of study in Harvard's prestigious Neiman Fellowship program….
> 
> It was only after Radio Free Asia's transmitters were operating, according to sources familiar with the case, that the C.I.A. realized that there were almost no radio receivers in private hands in mainland China. An emergency plan was drawn up.
> 
> Balloons, holding small radios tuned to Radio Free Asia's frequency, were lofted toward the mainland from the island of Taiwan, where the Chinese Nationalists had fled after the Communist takeover of the mainland in 1949. The plan was abandoned when the balloons were blown back to Taiwan across the Formosa Strait. The CIA supposedly shuttered Radio Free Asia in the mid-1950s, but another Radio Free Asia reappeared a decade later, this time funded through a CIA-Moonie outfit called the Korean Culture and Freedom Foundation (KCFF) — a group based in Washington, D.C. that was run by a top figure in South Korea's state intelligence agency, Colonel Bo Hi Pak, who also served as the “principle evangelist” of cult leader Rev. Sun-Myung Moon of the Unification Church.
> 
> This new Moonie iteration of Radio Free Asia was controlled by the South Korean government, including the country’s own CIA, the "KCIA." It enjoyed high-level support from within the first Nixon Administration and even featured then-Congressman Gerald Ford on its board. According to an FBI file on Rev. Moon, Radio Free Asia “at the height of the Vietnam war produced anti-communist programs in Washington and beamed them into China, North Korea and North Vietnam.”
> 
> Radio Free Asia got busted in a widespread corruption scandal in the late 1970s, when the South Korean government was investigated for using the Moonie cult to influence US public opinion in order to keep the US military engaged against North Korea. Back in the 1970s, the Moonies were the most notorious cult in the United States, accused of abducting and "brainwashing" countless American youths. How it was that the CIA's Radio Free Asia was handed off to the Moonies was never quite explained, but given laws banning the CIA (or the KCIA) from engaging in psychological warfare in the US, the obvious thing to do was to bury Radio Free Asia long enough for everyone to forget about it.
> 
> No sooner had Radio Free Asia vanished amid scandal than it reappeared again, Terminator-like, in the 1990s — this time as a legit “independent” nonprofit wholly controlled by the BBG and funded by Congress.
> 
> Although this latest version of Radio Free Asia was supposed to be a completely new organization and was no longer as covert and B-movie spooky, its objectives and tactics remained exactly the same: *To this day it beams propaganda into the same Communist countries, including North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, China, and Burma, and fiddles around in the same sorts of spooky adventures.*


Who listens to RFA? RFA like VOA are tools used by Indians on PDF as legit source when they have no points to add to. Chanakya's art of bullshit to trick the idiots

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## ZeEa5KPul

Maybe China should bomb Radio Free Asia like America bombed Radio Television of Serbia during the Kosovo War.

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## Tauren Paladin

Today, Xianjiang is a part of China. If anyone who thinks it's not, can bring their dispute to the United Nations.

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## TaiShang

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1081259.shtml

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*PLA Helicopter flight training in Xinjiang*



Two Z-9 attack helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lift off during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)
Source：China Military Online
2



Two Z-9 attack helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lift off during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)3



A transport helicopter attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) hovers in the air under complex weather condition during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)4



Attack and transport helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lift off for a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)5



A group of transport helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lifts off in emergency during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)6



A group of transport helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lifts off in emergency during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)7



A group of transport helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lifts off in emergency during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)8



Attack and transport helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) hover at an ultra-low altitude during a recent coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)9



Attack and transport helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade under the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) conduct a coordinated tactical flight training exercise in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Wu Shike)
Copyright @China Military. All rights reserved.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA



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## Martian2

Look at all of the existing remnants of Chinese Han Dynasty construction in Xinjiang Province from 2,000 years ago (e.g. watchtower, parts of the Great Wall, fire beacon tower, tombs, etc.). There is absolutely no question whatsoever that China had claimed Xinjiang Province since the Han Dynasty.

China doesn't need Han Dynasty "literature" to claim Xinjiang. Chinese Han Dynasty CONSTRUCTION are still there today for you to see with your own eyes (see photographs below). China relies on HARD PROOF CONSTRUCTION for its claim to Xinjiang.

Two thousand years into the future, future historians will point to China's high-speed rail construction in Xinjiang province as proof of today's Chinese sovereignty over Xinjiang province.
----------

*Xinjiang has been Chinese territory for the last 2,000 years*

The Han Dynasty exercised sovereignty over Xinjiang.

Xinjiang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"In the 2nd century BC, Han China sent Zhang Qian as an envoy to the states in the region, beginning several decades of struggle between the Xiongnu and Han China over dominance of the region, eventually ending in Chinese success. *In 60 BC Han China established the Protectorate of the Western Regions (西域都護府) at Wulei (烏壘; near modern Luntai) to oversee the entire region as far west as the Pamir. Tarim Basin was under the influence and control of the Han dynasty.*"

Govt. White Papers - china.org.cn

"*The Xiongnu entered Xinjiang mainly around 176 B.C. The Han was one of the earliest peoples to settle in Xinjiang.*

In 101 B.C., the Han empire began to station garrison troops to open up wasteland for cultivation of farm crops in Luntai (Bügür), Quli and some other places. Later, it sent troops to all other parts of Xinjiang for the same purpose. All the garrison reclamation points became the early settlements of the Han people after they entered Xinjiang. Since the Western Regions Frontier Command was established in 60 B.C., the inflow of the Han people to Xinjiang, including officials, soldiers and merchants, had never stopped."

----------





"two-thousand-year-old Han dynasty watchtower, outside Kuqa (Xinjiang)"

Source: Bradley Mayhew: Travels in Xinjiang

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"Han Dynasty Great Wall in the desert.
*
Great Wall in the Desert*

The remnants of Han Dynasty (206 B.C. – 220 A.D.) Great Wall can be found in the Gobi desert. The section that we will look at is part of a stretch that crossed the desert from Hami to Jiuquan, the Great Wall in this area was made out of layers of reeds and rammed earth and gravel. Two thousand years later, some of the wall remains in reasonable—but weathered—condition. The wall here, and the soldiers who garrisoned it, made the area safer for the traders and pilgrims on the Silk Road."

Source: Beijing Hikers - Special Trips

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"Ruins of a beacon tower of the Han Dynasty in Lop Nur, Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region

As the symbol of the strong politics and economy of the Qin (221 BC - 206 BC) and Han (206 BC - 220) Dynasties, Great Wall of the Qin and Han Dynasties was built on the sites of the northern Great Walls of the Qin, Zhao and Yan States of the Warring States Period (476 BC - 221 BC), stretching for over 6,000 kilometers (3,728 miles) from east to west. Related Intro: Qin Dynasty Great Wall, Han Dynasty Great Wall"

Source: Pictures of China Great Wall in Qin and Han Dynasties

----------

1,700-year-old Han Style Tombs Discovered in Xinjiang : Confucius Online – Chinese Culture and Chinese Philosophy.

*1,700-year-old Han Style Tombs Discovered in Xinjiang*
By nimeitu on 10/1/2010

Several 1700- year-old Han style tombs were unearthed in Kuqa County of the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region at a construction site of an underground business street. This is the first time Han style tombs at that age have been found in Xinjiang.

Comparing with tombs discovered in Jiangsu, Shandong, Shaanxi, Henan and Shanxi provinces, these tombs were identified as being built during the Qiuci Kingdom, between the middle of 3rd century and 4th century.

The discovery of these tombs fills a gaping hole concerning the ancient Qiuci Kingdom. They are significant for researching intimate political, commercial and cultural relationships between the Xiyu (western regions) Areas, the ancient Xinjiang region, and central China.





The corridor and a door of a side room in the No. 1 tomb





The No. 2 tomb, 2.5 meters high





Skeletons discovered in the tomb





Skeletons discovered near the front door of the No. 1 tomb

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## Path-Finder

Damn impressive!

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## qwerrty

put some machine gun drones to protect those ancient buildings. don't let those wacko historians rewrite history like in afghanistan..

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## yantong1980

Shajida Khan said:


> Nope my thread is not a troll thread. It was merely a report published which takes a critical view on China's oft repeated 'historical claim'. It was only you who started violating forum rules and calling Indian will all sorts of names.



Yes, you are. By posting West post garbage like this you just claim only critic, you only CAN critic if you know about China, do you live in China? You just hide inside dirt hole somewhere in India, next time you WANT to critic, use your own opinion, argumentation-expertise based on FACT on the ground, is more sensible if you live in China for long time or acquired Chinese citizenship. Do you think by posting tons of anti-China garbage like this make your critic look LEGIT? By the way kiddo your 'critic' landed on the wrong planet, send somewhere else please? Call back Houston!

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## Shahzaz ud din

*Direct shipment of Pakistan seafood to Xinjiang a milestone in connectivity*
By Hu Weijia Source:Global Times Published: 2018/2/12 0:03:39
0


The first shipment of about 1,150 kilograms of seafood imported directly from Pakistan has arrived in Urumqi, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, Pakistani newspaper the Express Tribune said. The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) has received an increasing amount of attention due to its role in promoting infrastructure facilities in the South Asian country. But now, detailed plans are necessary to upgrade the "software" such as quarantine services to open a green channel for imports from Pakistan.

In 2017, exports to Pakistan from China stood at $18.3 billion, while China's imports from Pakistan totaled $1.8 billion. With upgraded "software," the CPEC, a flagship project of China's Belt and Road (B&R) initiative, might help Pakistan boost exports and slash its trade deficit with China.

Most observers agree that seafood and fruit can become bright spots in Pakistan's exports to China, and the only question is how this potential can be realized. Although the CPEC is designed to connect the Gwadar Port in Southwest Pakistan with Kashgar, most of the seafood sold in Xinjiang is transferred from the southeast coast of China, which is thousands of kilometers away. 

Before Urumqi airport became licensed as a designated port of entry for imported chilled and fresh aquatic products last year, it took seven to 10 days for such imports to be transferred to inland Xinjiang after arriving on the southeast coast. The 1,150 kilograms of seafood represents the first time that Urumqi's airport was allowed to handle fresh goods from Pakistan, after a chilled and fresh aquatic products import port was granted in the city last year. It is now feasible to meet Xinjiang consumers' demand for seafood with Pakistan's high-quality products, and this will certainly expand China's imports from the South Asian country.

More international air cargo routes between Pakistan and China's inland cities are needed. Further, to ensure the smooth operation of the route, local authorities must improve the customs-clearing process by streamlining the quarantine, examination and approval procedures. Besides the CPEC, the same measures should be taken to upgrade the "software" of the B&R initiative, as China and countries and regions along the route step up efforts to streamline quarantine procedures and create unified standards by discussing free trade agreements.

_The author is a reporter with the Global Times. bizopinion@globaltimes.com.cn_

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## khansaheeb

This is just the taste of things to come.

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## Enigma_



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## khansaheeb

Ya Allah, please give me some money to invest in Gwadar.

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## lcloo

CPEC will be a cash cow for Pakistan. Living standards of people in this belt will be much improved.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang to have fresh seafood, amazing.

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## Thorough Pro

1,150 kg, must be a joke.

1.8 billion exports vs 18.3 billion imports.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

That interesting new, People from Xinjiang now can have more taste of the sea food from Arabian sea, CPEC start to become more and more significant. With an efficient trade route, not only it will reduce the cost of transportation but increase the living standard of both nations.



Thorough Pro said:


> 1,150 kg, must be a joke.
> 
> 1.8 billion exports vs 18.3 billion imports.



indeed that trade is far from balancing, I'm wondering what else Pakistan can sell to China?

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## PaklovesTurkiye

khansaheeb said:


> Ya Allah, please give me some money to invest in Gwadar.



Ameen



lcloo said:


> CPEC will be a cash cow for Pakistan. Living standards of people in this belt will be much improved.





Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> indeed that trade is far from balancing, I'm wondering what else Pakistan can sell to China?



I was wondering how can we Pakistanis find our relevant buyers in China? for example if I wanna start exporting fruits to China, should I look into fruits association of China for buyers? , the Chinese province where fruits are in demand? how can I get that information? any English information portal? 



khansaheeb said:


> Ya Allah, please give me some money to invest in Gwadar.



in housing/land sector? People must have been making money in real estate since announcement of Cpec

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## khansaheeb

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Ameen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering how can we Pakistanis find our relevant buyers in China? for example if I wanna start exporting fruits to China, should I look into fruits association of China for buyers? , the Chinese province where fruits are in demand? how can I get that information? any English information portal?
> 
> 
> 
> in housing/land sector? People must have been making money in real estate since announcement of Cpec



Yes , but this only the beginning. What $10K now will be $1 million in 20 years time, By then Gwadar will be an Islamabad of the South, Inshallah.

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## lcloo

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Ameen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering how can we Pakistanis find our relevant buyers in China? for example if I wanna start exporting fruits to China, should I look into fruits association of China for buyers? , the Chinese province where fruits are in demand? how can I get that information? any English information portal?
> 
> 
> 
> in housing/land sector? People must have been making money in real estate since announcement of Cpec


My friend, for a starter, just find out if you can join Alibaba.com as a seller. Just look for English/ international section of Alibaba.com.

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## Tps43

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Ameen
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering how can we Pakistanis find our relevant buyers in China? for example if I wanna start exporting fruits to China, should I look into fruits association of China for buyers? , the Chinese province where fruits are in demand? how can I get that information? any English information portal?
> 
> 
> 
> in housing/land sector? People must have been making money in real estate since announcement of Cpec


Housing and land sector is cool as of now maybe will become hot after 2 years.

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## Sankpal

khansaheeb said:


> Yes , but this only the beginning. What $10K now will be $1 million in 20 years time, By then Gwadar will be an Islamabad of the South, Inshallah.



Too much expectations. Hope comes true.
Best of luck


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> I was wondering how can we Pakistanis find our relevant buyers in China? for example if I wanna start exporting fruits to China, should I look into fruits association of China for buyers? , the Chinese province where fruits are in demand? how can I get that information? any English information portal?



To selling product in China, you need to travel to a lot of place and analyze the market demand and also have good contact, I can't really tell you much since I'm not in business, but with 1.3 billions mouths I'm pretty sure you will find the buyers but be prepare to compete with a lot of nations such Thai, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan and even US and Europe for all kind of fruits or exortic fruits.

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## gayMo

khansaheeb said:


> Yes , but this only the beginning. What $10K now will be $1 million in 20 years time, By then Gwadar will be an Islamabad of the South, Inshallah.


Think big... it could be the Macao or Hong Kong or even the Dubai


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Trade over other things is the Joint Pakistan/China message


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## khansaheeb

gayMo said:


> Think big... it could be the Macao or Hong Kong or even the Dubai


I did think big that's why I wish it to be like Islamabad.


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## lastofthepatriots

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> To selling product in China, you need to travel to a lot of place and analyze the market demand and also have good contact, I can't really tell you much since I'm not in business, but with 1.3 billions mouths I'm pretty sure you will find the buyers but be prepare to compete with a lot of nations such Thai, Vietnam, Japan, Taiwan and even US and Europe for all kind of fruits or exortic fruits.



We have better quality than all those nations.

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## gayMo

khansaheeb said:


> I did think big that's why I wish it to be like Islamabad.


It's nice to say these words.. But in reality... in that case China's help would not have been needed


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## khansaheeb

gayMo said:


> It's nice to say these words.. But in reality... in that case China's help would not have been needed


No connection between what I have said and what you are suggesting. Stop trying to derail the point.


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## gayMo

khansaheeb said:


> No connection between what I have said and what you are suggesting. Stop trying to derail the point.


There is ... because Islamabad has been built with it china help. So no need of cpec if u want to make another I'mbad


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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang becomes a very safe place thanks for those ordinary patrol police working in small towns and villages.

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## beijingwalker



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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*今年1-10月份新疆乌苏市新农合基金支出4033万元*
2017-12-15 亚心网 查看原网页
January-October this year, Wusu City, Xinjiang New Rural Cooperative Fund expenditure 40.33 million yuan

2017-12-15 Asian Heart Network view original page Zhang Zudong Ren Dazhi (correspondent Zhang Zudong Ren Dazhi) 

2017 is the tenth year in Wusu City to implement the new rural cooperative medical system. In the past ten years, Wusu City fully realized the coverage of serious illness insurance, continuously improved its service quality and established a relatively sound system. Effectively reducing the burden of participating in the high medical costs of peasants, preventing poverty from becoming sick and returning to poverty due to illness, and has been widely recognized by all walks of life and farmers. 66-year-old Wang Xiaohua is a villager in Aqic Village, Huanggong Town, Usu City. In early December, her blood pressure was raised due to cooling weather and she was hospitalized in Usu Hospital of Traditional Chinese Medicine for 7 days. Recently she was discharged to the city of Usu Chinese medicine hospital settlement NCMS reimbursement of hospitalization fees. Wang Xiaohua said: "Today I went to the hospital to checkout, I was hospitalized for a week, spent more than 2,100 yuan, the new rural cooperative medical reimbursement of 1,777 yuan, and now the party and state policies are good, see a doctor hospital can be reimbursed, thanks Party and government! " Zeng Gang, head of the hospital settlement department of Wusu Hospital of Traditional Chinese Medicine, said: "Since the implementation of the new type of cooperative medical system in rural areas and pastoral areas, our hospital has provided farmers with real-time settlement in accordance with the state's policies at a rate of 80% under 65 years of age. Reimbursement of 85% of the elderly over the age of farmers and herdsmen in the window will be able to settle in real time, to reduce the burden on farmers and herdsmen. As of the end of October, Wusu New Rural Cooperative Fund total expenditure of 40.3292 million yuan. Of which: ordinary clinic compensation trips 130,000 passengers, general out-patient compensation amount 3635900 yuan; Inpatient compensation for 19,645 passengers, hospital routine compensation amount 35,563,300 yuan; National health examination expenditure 1.13 million yuan. It is reported that in 2017 the city should participate in the number of 103999 people, the actual participation of 103,270 people, participation rate was 99.3%.
张祖栋 任达志讯(通讯员 张祖栋 任达志)2017年是乌苏市实施新农合制度的第十年,十年里,乌苏市全面实现了大病保险覆盖,不断提升服务质量,建立了较为完善的制度,有效减轻了参合农民高额医药费用负担,防止因病致贫、因病返贫问题,受到了社会各界和农民群众的普遍认可。






66岁的王孝花是乌苏市皇宫镇阿克奇村村民,12月初,因降温天气使她血压升高,在乌苏市中医院住院7天治疗,近日,出院后的她来到乌苏市中医院结算新农合报销住院费。王孝花说:"今天我上医院来结账,我在这里住院一个星期,花了2100多元钱,新农合给我报销了1777元,现在党和国家政策太好了,看病住院都可以报销,感谢党和政府!"

乌苏市中医院财务科住院结算处主管曾刚说:"自国家实施新型农牧区合作医疗以来,我院按照国家的政策给予农民实时结算,比例是65岁以下的按80%报销,65岁以上的按85%报销,农牧民在窗口上就能够实时结算,给农牧民减轻负担。"

截至10月底,乌苏市新农合基金支出总额4032.92万元。其中:普通门诊补偿人次13万人次、普通门诊补偿金额363.59万元;住院补偿人次19645人次,住院常规补偿金额3556.33万元;全民健康体检支出113万元。

据悉,2017年全市应参合人数103999人,实际参合103270人,参合率为99.3%。


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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968355178385682432


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## S10

People always forget that Xinjiang has a large number of ethnic minorities other than Uyghurs. Kazakhs used to make up at least 1/5 of the population in Xinjiang in the early days of PRC. It's only after China's "genocide" that Uyghur population exploded, from approximately 3.6 million in early 1950's to 12 million today.

https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.edu/bitstream/10125/3538/1/EWCWwp001.pdf

If genocide was what China was going for in Xinjiang, then it's the most spectacular failure in history.

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## onebyone



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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

*Government official documnet Red Flag River project





*
*Yarlung Tsangpo* (sometimes called *Yarlung Zangbo* or *Yarlung Zangbo Jiang* (Tibetan: ཡར་ཀླུངས་གཙང་པོ་, Wylie: _yar kLungs gTsang po_, ZYPY: Yarlung Zangbo), or *Yalu Zangbu River* (simplified Chinese: 雅鲁藏布江; traditional Chinese: 雅魯藏布江; pinyin: _Yǎlǔ Zàngbù Jiāng_) is the longest river of Tibet.[1] The part _Tsangpo_ probably originates from the fact that the river flows from or through Tsang- encompassing the part of Tibet west of Lhasa.

It is the upper stream of the Brahmaputra River. Originating at Angsi Glacier in western Tibet, southeast of Mount Kailash and Lake Manasarovar.

Water will be diverted from Yarlung Tsangpo, Tibet, to Xinjiang.

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## atan651

Wow, what an enormous project! Hope the central government will approve it soonest possible.


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## Cybernetics

"Red Flag River"

Key points from video:
“打开我国未来发展空间的钥匙” “西部大开发” "Key to opening our future development space" "Mega development of the West"









Starting in Yarlung Tsangpo around the "big bend", entering multiple rivers (*including Yellow River*) and crossing mountains with tunnels, splitting to Hami and Kashgar/Hetian. Water flow can be controlled.

Total length 6188 km, change in elevation 1252 m
Will create *200 million mu/133,333 km square of green agricultural land* in North West China
Massively reduce population burden
While preserving food security, recover the soil and ecological health in Eastern China
Opens up more space for economic development in Eastern China
North West China will develop green and high tech farming
*Provide new development space for 150 million people*, 200 million population geo-economic re-positioning.
*Canal will enable vessel transport route from Tianshui (Gansu) to Kashgar (Xinjiang) *"mega logistics corridor" and economic corridor 4200 km long, more than twice the length of the ancient grand canal.
Connecting Eurasia and jump start Eurasian economic development.
To promote global recovery and reversal from desertification through systematic management
To change the sole South East migration trend
Creating new green eco-corridor stretching from Hetao plain to Urumqi, 1500km long and hundreds of km wide. Kick-starting upstream and downstream supply chain development
Catalyst for sustained development of China






Since the canal passes through conservation areas, to ensure safe passage of wildlife across the new canal, 400-500 m wide underground natural vegetation lined corridors will be created. The corridor width is needed to decrease the fear the wildlife experiences when faced with a corridor to ensure the migration occurs successfully. The corridor also includes its own lighting systems.
Canal will be 145 m wide
Creates 2000km long and 100km wide, 200,000 km squared oasis belt.

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## beijingwalker

This man made river will be 6188 Km long, a sure miracle for the mankind.

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## atan651

India may want to throw a monkey wrench into this thing since it involves the Brahmaputra river.


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## beijingwalker

TANAHH said:


> India may want to throw a monkey wrench into this thing since it involves the Brahmaputra river.


It will be done all within the Chinese territory, they dare not to do anything on the Chinese soil.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

As I said before, it's a must for China to divert this water to save our drought and to prevent desertification of North West. it's a life or death decision for China's future...don't wait until the our grand children have to pay 100$ for a bottle of drinking water to regret.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

This red flag river remind me of the Red river, China can also plant some water diversion on this 








TANAHH said:


> India may want to throw a monkey wrench into this thing since it involves the Brahmaputra river.



India can cry a river, they claimed that we can't divert water from Tibet because it's not feasible so they're holding their territory bargain that China can't use water as bargain...but I believe China has undertaken this Red Flag River study long time ago. We don't need to bargain with India for now regarding the dispute territory but concentrate first to recover our north west massive land with X% Yarlung Tsangpo river, we can recover the land as big as Indian's North east, then if India persist not to give us land back, we can either divert 100% of water and let India North East in misery.

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## terranMarine

Knowing China's capabilities i say do it. We have the geographical advantage and the means to achieve it. It's not looking good for the slumdogs, gonna get fooked hard

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

With plenty of water, China's north west cities shall be developed as modern as China's coastal cities. now enjoy Urumqi subway

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## beijingwalker

Happy little Xinjiang kids


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## beijingwalker

*Enjoy thrills and spills from alpine skiing in China’s Xinjiang




*


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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang implements kindergarten to high school 15 years free education*
*



*

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

Education is the key for a nation's future,China always heavily invests in education cause we always know this, Chinese familes have a tradition of providing the best possible education for their children at whatever expenses,free education takes some burden off the shoulders of not so well to do families.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang kids enjoy the best life a government can offer, their smiling faces manifest everything.

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## beijingwalker



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## beijingwalker

*Xinjiang builds 80,000 houses for rural poor*
Xinhua, April 6, 2018
Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region began building 82,300 houses in impoverished areas in the first three months of the year, authorities said Friday.

The region plans to build 300,000 subsidized houses this year. About 210,000 will be for families in extreme poverty, those receiving the minimum living allowances, and households with disabled members.

The rest will be open to other low-income families on application.

To expedite the rural housing construction, the autonomous region has retrained some 56,600 farmers, craftsmen and engineering managers who have been involved in the construction.

Xinjiang is to build enough new houses for all underprivileged households in rural areas. The regional government built 2.1 million such houses from 2011 to 2017.
http://www.china.org.cn/china/2018-04/06/content_50828432.htm

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang Province builds 80,000 houses for rural poor*
Xinhua, April 6, 2018

Xinjiang Region began building 82,300 houses in impoverished areas in the first three months of the year, authorities said Friday.

*The region plans to build 300,000 subsidized houses this year. About 210,000 will be for families in extreme poverty, those receiving the minimum living allowances, and households with disabled members.*

The rest will be open to other low-income families on application.

To expedite the rural housing construction, the autonomous region has retrained some 56,600 farmers, craftsmen and engineering managers who have been involved in the construction.

Xinjiang is to build enough new houses for all underprivileged households in rural areas. The regional government built 2.1 million such houses from 2011 to 2017.

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## Taygibay

The good part of strong government at work?

Impressive! 布拉沃 Xinjiang!

Good day to you, Tay.

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## 艹艹艹

great

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## TaiShang

Taygibay said:


> The good part of strong government at work?
> 
> Impressive! 布拉沃 Xinjiang!
> 
> Good day to you, Tay.



About 12 million affordable homes built by the government per year to ensure every single family all over the country will have a decent living place of their own.

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## beijingwalker

Xinjiang is a very earthquake prone region and government has been working for years trying to get rural poor into newly built earthquake resistant houses.

新疆“抗震安居房”
http://xj.people.com.cn/n2/2017/0815/c186332-30609832.html

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> Xinjiang is a very earthquake prone region and government has been working for years trying to get rural poor into newly built earthquake resistant houses.
> 
> 新疆“抗震安居房”
> http://xj.people.com.cn/n2/2017/0815/c186332-30609832.html



A beautiful socialist country.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang's new energy power generation soars in Q1*
Xinhua, April 15, 2018

New energy power generation surged in northwest China's Xinjiang Province in the first quarter of the year as local authorities sought to improve the energy mix.

*Wind and solar power generation rose 35 percent and 38 percent year on year to 7.6 billion kwh and 2.3 billion kwh, respectively, *according to the State Grid Xinjiang Electric Power Co., Ltd.

Xinjiang's wind and solar power generating capacities totalled 27.4 million kw, accounting for around 30 percent of its total installed power generating capacity.

But due to higher costs, poor grid connections and the grid's preference for more predictable coal-generated power, 21.7 percent of the installed wind power generating capacity and 21 percent of the solar power generating capacity in Xinjiang were left idle last quarter.

The two rates went down 12.3 percentage points and 16.2 percentage points in the first quarter year on year as local authorities encouraged more local consumption and worked with Beijing, Guangdong and Shanghai authorities to transmit more clean electricity to these regions.

To reduce greenhouse gas emissions and tackle air pollution, China has been trying to use more renewable energy. 

http://www.china.org.cn/business/2018-04/15/content_50886048.htm

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## onebyone

The doctors are in! Herders in a cold highland area in #Xinjiang have long struggled to see doctors and obtain medicine. Chang Hongbo and his wife have traveled there every month to offer medical assistance ever since they first visited the area four years ago. #everydayhero

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## beijingwalker

Another violation of free choice human rights, In Urumqi, Xinjiang, the government forces preschool kids to have one free milk everyday, 240,000 preschool kids don't seem to have a choice but to deal with it.

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## third eye

Good move. 

If it were India or Pak , people of a certain religion would suspect the governments motives & claim the milk is spiked with things to make the kids impotent! 

Polio drops are sometimes seen this way !

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## beijingwalker

And if you refuse to send your kids to school , the government officials will keep visiting your home and talking to you until your relent, you don't seem to have a choice.

*Xinjiang implements kindergarten to high school 15 years free education




*

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## atan651

This is COMMUNISM! But I like it!

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## HariPrasad

beijingwalker said:


> Another violation of free choice human rights, In Urumqi, Xinjiang, the government forces preschool kids to have one free milk everyday, 240,000 preschool kids don't seem to have a choice but to deal with it.



This is really great. My thumbs up chinese government who implemented this


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## India Pakistan

Good initiative

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## Cybernetics

TANAHH said:


> This is COMMUNISM! But I like it!


中国特色社会主义/Socialism with Chinese characteristics, not exactly communism.

If the nation has the capacity, all children should be given a solid foundation to grow upon and compete with. The most important of which is the health and development of their bodies. "身体是革命的本钱/The body is the capital of revolution".

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## beijingwalker

Chinese central government allocated 465 million Yuan and Xinjiang local government 100 million Yuan to have had all children living in poor underdeveloped far western regions in Xinjiang covered by free nutrition meals program ( balanced nutrition meals must contain meat, milk, eggs, vegetables etc) . The kids in those regions have already long enjoyed free education to high school and all other benefits such as free books , accommodation , All the cost is paid by the government.





*Free school bus rides for Xinjiang students*

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## beijingwalker

Uyghur girl singing


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## beijingwalker

*Snow leopard goes into a residential area of xinjiang to rescue snow leopard*
*



*

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## Attila the Hun

I love snow leopards.

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## beijingwalker

*Population*
Before 2003, the total wild snow leopard population was estimated at 4,080 to 6,500 individuals. In 2016, the global population was estimated at 4,678 to 8,745 individuals, suggesting that the total number of snow leopards was larger than previously thought.

*Estimated
population*
Afghanistan 100–200
Bhutan 100–200
*China 2,000–2,500 *
India 200–600
Kazakhstan 180–200
Kyrgyzstan 150–500
Mongolia 500–1,000
Nepal 300–500
Pakistan 200–420
Tajikistan 180–220
Uzbekistan 20–50


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## beijingwalker

beijingwalker said:


> Another violation of free choice human rights, In Urumqi, Xinjiang, the government forces preschool kids to have one free milk everyday, 240,000 preschool kids don't seem to have a choice but to deal with it.


The same event is being reported as the Chinese government goes inot every Uyghur household to check out by the west.

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## RPK

beijingwalker said:


> meals program


http://www.nihfw.org/NationalHealthProgramme/MID_DAYMEAL.html

Tamil Nadu was the first to initiate a massive noon meal programme to children. Neither a child that is hungry, nor a child that is ill can be expected to learn. Realising this need the Mid-Day Meal (MDM) Scheme was launched in primary schools during 1962-63. Mid-Day Meal improves three areas: 1. School attendance, 2. Reduced dropouts, 3. A beneficial impact on children's nutrition.


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## beijingwalker

RPK said:


> http://www.nihfw.org/NationalHealthProgramme/MID_DAYMEAL.html
> 
> Tamil Nadu was the first to initiate a massive noon meal programme to children. Neither a child that is hungry, nor a child that is ill can be expected to learn. Realising this need the Mid-Day Meal (MDM) Scheme was launched in primary schools during 1962-63. Mid-Day Meal improves three areas: 1. School attendance, 2. Reduced dropouts, 3. A beneficial impact on children's nutrition.


The enforcement is China's strength, we don't just brag, we make things happen and bring the result for the world to see.

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## GumNaam

beijingwalker said:


> Another violation of free choice human rights, In Urumqi, Xinjiang, the government forces preschool kids to have one free milk everyday, 240,000 preschool kids don't seem to have a choice but to deal with it.


I can't believe this, I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!!!
  
I mean...the nerve of the Chinese communist government...forcing...FORCING, poor poor, innocent children... to drink...MILK...and that too...FOR FREE!  and giving them free education...brainwashing the innocent minds with lies like education will lead to success...
The horror... oh the horror...





where are you modi...where you trump... please... please bring us democracy and save us from... free education...and free...milk...

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## 帅的一匹

Kids are angel, deserve the best.

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## GumNaam

wanglaokan said:


> Kids are angel, deserve the best.

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## 帅的一匹

Better use your brain before you write something.


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## 帅的一匹

Those smile of the Uygher kids really make me happy, they are the future of China as well.

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## Daniel808

Education is the key for survival of a Civilization along with cultures.

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## beijingwalker

Ｗhen a traveling Taiwan girl meets a little Tajik girl in Xinjiang, she exclaims that we all all Chinese.

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## 帅的一匹

Uyghers are our brother and sister, their culture and religion must be respected. They deserve better education and living standard.

Still remember how Uygher Warriors joined hands with Tang Dynasty goverment to hit hard on the Turkic invader?

My favourite basketball player Abdul Salam showed his muscle in a basketball game with South Korea, a real man!

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## beijingwalker

*Rice farmers in Xinjiang show that small ideas can grow into big changes*


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## LKJ86

By Xu Hailin Source:Global Times Published: 2018/5/23 21:18:40

Intensified military training by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Ground Force in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region is aimed not only at testing weaponry but also advancing commanders' capabilities, a military observer said Wednesday.

With the participation of nearly 400 high-level commanders from PLA Ground Force combat units, the four-day training started Tuesday, according to a statement on PLA Ground Force's official WeChat account on Tuesday.

The leadership will explore and discuss the future development of the PLA Ground Force. 

"The PLA Ground Force attached great importance to the training to explore adaption to military modernization's new needs," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

The training is not specifically about Xinjiang, he noted. It is an important attempt to transform the entire PLA Ground Force. 

"The PLA Ground Force needs to ponder how to cooperate well with other services in future joint combat operation," he said.

Eight subjects, including intelligence reconnaissance, electronic countermeasures and long-range attacks, will be addressed in training, the statement said.

The exercises were an important attempt to promote the PLA Ground Force's transformation and implement its strategic goals and planning.

"The notion of advanced command ability in commanders is the key point of the training as their accomplishments influence the army's combat capability," Song said.

Eight high-tech combat units, equipped with big-data, cloud platform and databanks will show the information-based capabilities of the PLA Ground Force, according to the statement.

"The PLA Ground Force has already realized a transformation of weaponry as it possesses different weapons for high-altitude and transoceanic combat," Song said. "The key lies in combining equipment with people's ideas to make full use of the weaponry."

Source:http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1103765.shtml

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## rott

I hope the direction is toward Delhi.

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## LKJ86



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## beijingwalker

*How technology is easing burdens for farmers in China's Xinjiang*
*



*

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

China, Xinjiang Province, Kashkar, 1996







"Kashi" is the abbreviation of "Kashgar." "Kashi" is the meaning of Turkic "jade", and "gar" is the meaning of "Ishi" or "Mountain" in the ancient Iranian language.





Kashi City is located in the Kashgar region of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region. It is located in the southwestern margin of Xinjiang, in the western part of the Tarim Basin. It is bordered by the Taklamakan Desert to the east, the Karakoram Mountains to the south, and the Ali region in Tibet. It is the Pamirs Plateau in the west. It is the westernmost city in the western part of China. Kashgar Regional Administrative Office resident. Kashgar is the political, economic, cultural and transportation center of southern Xinjiang, and the largest distribution center for agricultural and pastoral products.





The old city of Kashgar in Xinjiang is like an animated volume of Xinjiang Uighur folk customs. The Kashgar old city is located in the center of Kashgar with an area of 4.25 square kilometers and approximately 168,800 residents. The streets of the old city are criss-crossing, with flexible layouts and winding streets. Most of the houses are civil and brick-wood structures. Many traditional houses have a history of more than a hundred years. They are the only labyrinthine cities in China featuring Islamic culture. Blocks.





The soul of Kashgar is in the old city of Kashgar, it represents the ancient past of this city, the present of peace, and if lucky, it will surely represent the future. The ancient city of Kashgar, originally called Shule, has a history of more than 2,000 years. The earliest records were found in the ancient Shuler recorded by Zhang Ke in the Western Han Dynasty. Ancient Shule City is located in Panshu City, the southern part of Kashi City. It is also known as the ancient city of Askerel.




The town of Shule had been set up during the Tang Dynasty. However, this site was found in the ancient city of Khan in the east of Kashgar, which is more than 20 kilometers east of today. The ancient city of Kashgar, where Kaza and Yavaq are located, should be the site of the royal capital of the Karahan Dynasty, which has a history of more than 800 years. Into the old streets and lanes, in the range of about 2 square kilometers, 23,000 inhabitants lived together and lived, two or three hundred lanes staggered densely woven.




The Kashi region is surrounded by mountains on three sides and is open on one side. The north Tianshan Mountain lies in the north, the Pamir Plateau stands in the west, the Karakoram Mountain in the south, and the Taklamakan Desert in the east. The Yeryan River and the alluvial plains of the Kashgar River, surrounded by mountains and deserts, are like green gemstones. The territory has four distinct seasons; the summer is hot, but the summer is short; the winter is not cold, but the cold period is long; the wind, sandstorm, and dusty weather are common in spring and summer.




During the reign of Emperor Qianlong of the Qing Dynasty: the Kashgar Counsellor of the Chinese government, “Premier Nanba City Affairs,” the Minister of the Minister. In the ten years of Guangxu (1884), Kashigar Road was set up, and there were a total of 2 seats of Shule and Shache, and Zhijishaer Zhili Hall, Pulifenfen Hall, and Zhili Zhili. Change to Kashgar administrative district, set up the Chief Executive's Office in Shufu. In the 32nd year of the Republic of China (1943), it was renamed the third (Kashgar) administrative district in Xinjiang, and the tenth (Sakhalin) administrative district.




In 1956 the city of Shache was retired and merged into the Kashi area. In January 1971, the Kashgar area was changed to Kashgar. In November 1982, four communes in Kashi, Kashiwa, Kashiwa, Awati, and Iwoshistan and a forest farm in Hanoi were assigned to Shufu County. In 1998, Hohan County, Shufu County, 5 villages in Bosi Kemlan Township, 2 villages in Awati Township, 1 village in Pahatai Keli Township, 3 villagers in 1 village in Chengguan Town, Shule County The group was assigned to Kashi City.




The Kashgar Regional Administrative Office is located in Kashgar and is the political, economic, and cultural center of Kashgar. In 2009, the city of Kashgar reconstructed the old city area with a total investment of 839 million yuan, and reinforced and reconstructed 9,722 Uygur traditional dwellings in the Kashgar old city. In 2014, Kashi City invested 150 million yuan to upgrade the landscape of Kashi Old Town. ---[Kashgar, Xinjiang, 1996]. Photography: Andrew Lee

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## Indus Pakistan

Kashgar is the closest Chinese city to Pakistan and even has some similarties.

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## beijingwalker

“免费午餐•新疆这四年” 4 years after free lunch policy inplemented for Xinjiang students







































*This is not true for kids from poor families in Xinjiang and Tibet*

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Very serious violation of human free choice rights!

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*China, Xinjiang Province, Kashkar,in 2016*
*




































*

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## AndrewJin

*Ultra-high-voltage **electricity transmission*

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## Rajesh Singh

AndrewJin said:


>


Nice...


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

China Xinjiang Urumqi IoT Technology Innovation Center under construction

2018-05-25 source:Chinadaily
Online Dictionary 
Construction of the Urumqi IoT Technology Innovation Center, located in the Urumqi Cloud Computing Industrial Park in the Urumqi Economic and Technological Development Zone (Toutunhe district) has sped up with project quality still of major importance, according to local media on May 14.

Luo Fubing, the leader of the construction team, said, "The construction team holds to a strict standard in all procedures, such as making reinforcing bars and pouring concrete. We carry out three inspections: self-inspection, mutual inspection and inspection in rotation in our efforts to build a fine-quality project."






The center under construction [Photo by Du Dongling/uetd.gov.cn]

Urumqi IoT Technology Innovation Center under construction

2018-05-25 source:Chinadaily
Online Dictionary 


The Urumqi IoT Technology Innovation Center currently under construction will occupy an area of 18.6 mu (1.24 hectares). Upon its expected completion at the end of this year, it will integrate the IoT resources in the autonomous region, attract companies to settle in the area, and build brands with its own intellectual property rights.






A worker on site [Photo by Du Dongling/uetd.gov.cn]

Zhang Liang, general manager of Xinjiang Jiantou Real Estate Development Co Ltd, the developer of the project, said, "During construction we instill the idea of the prototype of the building into every worker and strive to build it with precision, guaranteeing its quality."

The Silkroad Trading Center, Tianshan Cloud Trading Building, and the new Silkroad Cloud Computing Center, currently under construction, like the technology innovation center maintain strict quality control. All play an exemplary role in construction projects in Toutunhe district.

The Urumqi Cloud Computing Industrial Park takes advantage of the energy resources, climate and location of the Tianshan Mountain Economic Belt. The new center will in the future build cloud data, national information systems and strategic backup bases.






Design sketch of Urumqi Cloud Computing Industrial Park [Photo/xinjiangnet.com.cn]

By the end of this year, five of the eight projects in the Urumqi Cloud Computing Industrial Park would have completed construction.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Xinjiang’s neighborly ties proving lucrative

2018-05-21 source:Chinadaily
Online Dictionary 





A carpet maker from Hotan, the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region poses with his carpets. Many of handmade carpets from the region will enter markets in Central Asia and the Middle East. Xie Guanghui / For China Daily
Join Hope Seeds is one of several companies helping the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region boost commercial ties with neighboring countries.

Giant turbines of a four-story seed-drying machine roar into life, processing more than 1 metric ton of seeds per minute. This machine is one of the most productive of its kind in China.

The company, founded in Changji in 2003, is also a major producer of corn, wheat and cotton seeds, mainly meeting the demands of the domestic market. But it also has an eye on the increasingly lucrative Central Asia market.

"We have teamed up with Kazak research institutions to develop seeds suitable for the soil and climate conditions (in Kazakhstan)," CEO Hu Baomin said.

Join Hope Seeds recently set up a subsidiary in Kazakhstan and built a 133.3-hectare agricultural research center — larger than its own domestic facility.

Xinjiang, China's northwest doorway to Central Asia, sits at the center of the historic Silk Road. Local businesses are eyeing greater opportunities as China works to revive the ancient trade route.

Xinjiang saw a 24.2 percent year-on-year increase in foreign trade in the first two months of this year, with the trade volume with Kazakhstan hitting $1.4 billion, a surge of 47.7 percent, according to customs statistics.

Like Join Hope Seeds, other companies have broken into markets in neighboring countries that have a similar climate, culture and customs, while firms from other regions of China have set up Xinjiang branches for easier access to Central Asia.

"This year, we shifted our focus from the domestic market to the international market," said Kerim Memetniyaz, owner of Xinjiang Parlak Carpet Factory, adding that Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan are their main export destinations.

"Exports already generate 30 percent of our revenue, and we expect it to grow further," Memetniyaz said.

The history of carpet exports from Xinjiang dates back to the Western Han Dynasty (206 BC-24 AD). Delicate, handmade carpets from the region were popular products on the ancient Silk Road.

"Carpets are symbols of wealth in Uygur culture," Memetniyaz said. "Uygurs cover their floors with carpets and wealthier families also drape them on all the walls. The custom is shared by many countries in Central Asia and the Middle East."

To meet demand, the types of carpets produced in the factory have been extended from traditional Uygur to a combination of Uygur, Persian and Kazak styles, he said.

His company plans to invest 600 million yuan ($94.7 million) to expand its factory and upgrade equipment.

Just kilometers away from the carpet factory is the Xinjiang subsidiary of China Railway Construction Heavy Industry Co, a leading heavy equipment maker based in Hunan province. The subsidiary was set up in 2015.

Machinery and appliances were the second-biggest contributors to export growth in the provincial capital Urumqi last year, and have been increasingly transported on the China-Europe rail freight routes, according to Urumqi customs.

"As orders from Central Asia and the Middle East increased, the company deemed it necessary to set up the subsidiary," said Zhang Shimin, head of China Railway Construction Heavy Industry Co's Xinjiang branch.

Transporting a tunnel boring machine, the company's main product, from Hunan to Xinjiang costs about 3 million yuan.

"That accounts for 5 to 8 percent of the price of the machine," Zhang said.

Since its establishment, the branch has helped China Railway Construction Heavy Industry Co save more than 60 million yuan.

"We're now bidding for another project in Kazakhstan," Zhang said. "The Central Asia market is full of potential."

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Even the most backward areas in Xinjiang are more advanced than India.


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## abc123xyx

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> Even the most backward areas in Xinjiang are more advanced than India.



but your arguments has no taker in pakistan....very bad....


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Pakistan is our brother and close friend.Indians are heavens for rapists who do not want to advance.

Indians are persistent in systematic corruption and bribery elections. Indians even believe that it is an honor to rape a woman and not to be sentenced into prison.

Disgusting indians!

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*Highways in Taklimakan Desert in China's Xinjiang*
Source: Xinhua| 2018-06-14 07:39:40|Editor: ZD









Cars run on the first highway in Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, June 12, 2018. The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)












Cars run on the first highway in Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, June 12, 2018. The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)




A car runs on the first highway in Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, June 12, 2018.The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)









Cars run on the second highway across Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Nov. 27, 2017. The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)









Cars run on the first highway in Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, June 12, 2018. The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)









A truck runs on the second highway across Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Nov. 27, 2017. The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)









A car runs on the second highway across Taklimakan Desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, Nov. 27, 2017. The first highway across the Taklimakan, running 522 kilometers from Lunnan in the north, to Minfeng county in the south, was opened to traffic in 1995. The second north-south road across the desert opened to traffic about a decade ago, cutting the distance between the two important regional cities of Hotan and Aral by 550 km and the travel time by about seven hours. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

This highway is just a big engineering joke of 21st century, how much we have to pay to maintain and to prevent sand from cover up this highway? any sand storm will make this as high way of doom, we pay an heavy price to artificially keep this highway alive, We should bring water from Tibet to reforest and recover this land.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> This highway is just a big engineering joke of 21st century, how much we have to pay to maintain and to prevent sand from cover up this highway? any sand storm will make this as high way of doom, we pay an heavy price to artificially keep this highway alive, We should bring water from Tibet to reforest and recover this land.


Just maintain the plants along the line and that is enough!

You worry too much,There are Tazhong Oilfields in the central part of the Taklamakan Desert. In any case, this road must be constructed and properly maintained.
The actual operating costs are not high at all.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> Just maintain the plants along the line and that is enough!
> 
> You worry too much,There are Tazhong Oilfields in the central part of the Taklamakan Desert. In any case, this road must be constructed and properly maintained.
> The actual operating costs are not high at all.



Why would I be worry since I'm not the one paying for this highway , I merely express my opinion, see on the pictures how may cars or trucks run one the high way .


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

According to your statement, China should abandon Xinjiang and Tibet, especially Tibet, where there is only 3.3 million people. This is a big place wasting Chinese military spending.

Your point of view has its own problems. In some places, the roads are very busy. In some places, there are fewer vehicles on the road . Because there are few vehicles, will a road not be put into service?

In some mountainous regions, if 100% of electrification is to be achieved, sometimes it is necessary to lose money to build infrastructure. Does the State Grid of China no need to increase grid coverage to avoid losing money?


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## GeraltofRivia

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> This highway is just a big engineering joke of 21st century, how much we have to pay to maintain and to prevent sand from cover up this highway? any sand storm will make this as high way of doom, we pay an heavy price to artificially keep this highway alive, We should bring water from Tibet to reforest and recover this land.


My friend, this type of project cannot be judged solely for an economical point of view, particularly not on a standard alone basis.it has its strategic merit which is far beyond the economy. You are quite right there are other more appealing projects but they are complimenting not competing in nature.


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## beijingwalker

Free milk for Xinjiang kids













http://wlmq.wenming.cn/qxdt/201805/t20180524_5226439.shtml

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> According to your statement, China should abandon Xinjiang and Tibet, especially Tibet, where there is only 3.3 million people. This is a big place wasting Chinese military spending.
> 
> Your point of view has its own problems. In some places, the roads are very busy. In some places, there are fewer vehicles on the road . Because there are few vehicles, will a road not be put into service?
> 
> In some mountainous regions, if 100% of electrification is to be achieved, sometimes it is necessary to lose money to build infrastructure. Does the State Grid of China no need to increase grid coverage to avoid losing money?



Don't put word in my mouth, point me any logical evident that I suggest to abandon Xinjiang and Tibet, the kind of people like you that like to make false accusation is troublesome for China and Chinese people, if people don't go by your ideology or mindset then they're anti-China...LMAO. I merely suggest that we could have bring water to Xinjiang for reforestation than let the nature to take over the desert then we don't have to waste so much money to maintain this 522 km highway.

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## Mohrenn

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Don't put word in my mouth, point me any logical evident that I suggest to abandon Xinjiang and Tibet, the kind of people like you that like to make false accusation is troublesome for China and Chinese people, if people don't go by your ideology or mindset then they're anti-China...LMAO. I merely suggest that we could have bring water to Xinjiang for reforestation than let the nature to take over the desert then we don't have to waste so much money to maintain this 522 km highway.



How much more money and efforts would it cost to take water all the way from Tibet through the mountains to Xinjiang, compared to just maintaining a road, which I guess can be done by simple automatic cleaning trucks going up and down the road at regular intervals ? Even if a hundred trucks per day were needed to clean the road, which I don't think is the case at all, it would still remain much much cheaper than a canal bringing water from Tibet and then distributing that water on both sides of the road for hundreds of miles. If a truck costs 1000 dollars per day to do that, that would be 3.6 billion dollars to have those 100 trucks clean the road et the same time continually every single day for an entire century. That's nothing compared to the crazy amount it would cost to divert water from Tibet to Xinjiang.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Don't put word in my mouth, point me any logical evident that I suggest to abandon Xinjiang and Tibet, the kind of people like you that like to make false accusation is troublesome for China and Chinese people, if people don't go by your ideology or mindset then they're anti-China...LMAO. I merely suggest that we could have bring water to Xinjiang for reforestation than let the nature to take over the desert then we don't have to waste so much money to maintain this 522 km highway.


Do you know how much money would be spent on the so called Tibet to xinjang river 红旗河？？
No need to consider the salinization problem of the inland river？？. Just to say a few words, this 6,000-kilometer river can circulate well??.

Your suggestions are impractical, while at the same time blindly accusing the road that actually plays a huge role (since you see that there are not many vehicles on the road, you feel that this road is useless??). I think the current Taklamakan Desert Highway is quite Well, it has great practical significance to promote the development of oilfields, desert tourism, blocking of mobile sand dunes, and connecting the north and south regions of Xinjiang as well.


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## beijingwalker

MORE than 13,000 students will attend “Xinjiang classes” in economically developed regions this year, according to the Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region education authority.

Almost 10,000 will attend high schools. Currently, 93 high schools across China offer Xinjiang classes, part of a national program to train talent for the region.

The remaining students will attend vocational schools.

This year, about 77 percent of the students come from Aksu, Hotan, Kashgar and Kizilsu Kirgiz prefectures in southern Xinjiang.

The Xinjiang classes program, which began 17 years ago, has sent 90,000 students from Xinjiang to study in more economically developed regions.

Over 21,000 have graduated from university and returned to the region, according to Xinjiang’s education department.

Xinjiang classes have provided students from remote parts of the region with the opportunity to study at high-quality schools.

The region is home to 47 ethnic groups, including Han, Kazak, Mongol, Tajik and Uygur.

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## beijingwalker



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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*Xinjiang Akto: The Chinese government sends students free of charge to go home for the summer vacation*

Xinhua Net
2018-07-03 21:46:52
The school bus is on the way to send students home (Junar 2 drone shooting). During the summer vacation, in order to let the students in the farming and pastoral areas attending the county safely return home, the Akto County of Xinjiang organized the school bus in a centralized manner, and the traffic police escorted them along the way, sending more than 2,000 students back home in batches. 
(Xinhua News Agency reporter Jiang Wenyao).





Students from the Wutong Middle School in Akto County are on the school bus returning home (photo taken on July 2).

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## haidian

My.. One has to move mountains to build those roads.

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## TaiShang

*Third desert road under construction in Taklimakan desert in NW China's Xinjiang*





Vehicles work at a desert road construction site in Taklimakan desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, July 5, 2018. An over 300-km-long desert road, linking Xinjiang's Yuli County to remote Qiemo County, is now under construction. It's the third that-kind-of road crossing China's largest desert Taklimakan nicknamed "the Sea of Death" in China. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





Aerial photo taken on July 5, 2018 shows the desert road under construction in Taklimakan desert in northwest China's Autonomous Region. An over 300-km-long desert road, linking Xinjiang's Yuli County to remote Qiemo County, is now under construction. It's the third that-kind-of road crossing China's largest desert Taklimakan nicknamed "the Sea of Death" in China. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





A vehicle works at a desert road construction site in Taklimakan desert in northwest China's Autonomous Region, July 5, 2018. An over 300-km-long desert road, linking Xinjiang's Yuli County to remote Qiemo County, is now under construction. It's the third that-kind-of road crossing China's largest desert Taklimakan nicknamed "the Sea of Death" in China. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





Aerial photo taken on July 5, 2018 shows the desert road under construction in Taklimakan desert in northwest China's Xinjiang Region. An over 300-km-long desert road, linking Xinjiang's Yuli County to remote Qiemo County, is now under construction. It's the third that-kind-of road crossing China's largest desert Taklimakan nicknamed "the Sea of Death" in China. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

***

It will be a hell of a fun ride on this road

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## atan651

When are they going to turn Xinjiang into an arable land? I hope China has already started the water diversion project. It's critically important for China to be self-sufficient in food.

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## BHarwana

TaiShang said:


> It will be a hell of a fun ride on this road



It is always fun driving on a desert road.

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## haidian

TANAHH said:


> When are they going to turn Xinjiang into an arable land? I hope China has already started the water diversion project. It's critically important for China to be self-sufficient in food.


Plans and budget were long worked out, waiting for the government approval. Tibetan water can turn Xinjiang's desert into a rich fertile land.

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## atan651

haidian said:


> Plans and budget were long worked out, waiting for the government approval. Tibetan water can turn Xinjiang's desert into a rich fertile land.


Ahh... that's good to know! Perhaps road building is part of the overall plan.

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## Huan

All that empty spacious land in China's Western regions to spread out 1.4 billion people from the overcrowded East Coast. After making it into arable land, will China start building multiple new mega-cities in the Western half?


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Nice！


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## TaiShang

Huan said:


> All that empty spacious land in China's Western regions to spread out 1.4 billion people from the overcrowded East Coast. After making it into arable land, will China start building multiple new mega-cities in the Western half?



China aims to have mega clusters, rather than distributing every industry and services evenly across the country. In that sense, there will be population concentrations along major production and logistics centers.

As you point out, the Western China is being developed based on their obvious strength such as agriculture and tourism. In that sense, we are seeing such clusters in Central China, already, if not as big as their Eastern counterparts. 

With growing arable land and concentrated cities, population will increase, but, I do not expect an even situation.

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## haidian

Minorities can always have preferential treatment in China.
*Affirmative action in China 民族优惠政策*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China


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## haidian

*Better Live, Medical Aid in Xinjiang's Poor Regions*
*



*

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## haidian

*新疆高中免費教育　逾85萬學生可享「三免一補」*
Xinjiang implements kindergarten to high school 15 years free education, 850,000 students benefit with free tuition, accomodation and teaching materials, students from poor families will be covered with extra subsidies and scholarship, local government allocates 2.58 billion Yuan to make sure that every single kid is enrolled in this progrom.

https://www.hk01.com/中國/134865/新疆12月起推高中免費教育-逾85萬學生可享-三免一補
*





*
*



*


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## HariPrasad

Clearly an effort to subvert the Xinjiang Muslims to Communist Ideology.


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## haidian

HariPrasad said:


> Clearly an effort to subvert the Xinjiang Muslims to Communist Ideology.


They study science and literature, not communist ideology, you don't need study any ideology for 15 years... what do you offer to Indian kids?

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## HariPrasad

haidian said:


> They study science and literature, not communist ideology, you don't need study any ideology for 15 years... what do you offer to Indian kids?


We offer them something which put them on the top of corporate, research, education and all goodthing.


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## haidian

HariPrasad said:


> We offer them something which put them on the top of corporate, research, education and all goodthing.


All the kids get the same benefits and opportunities? Free education up to high school? Good, I hope what you told me is the truth.

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## Jlaw

HariPrasad said:


> We offer them something which put them on the top of corporate, research, education and all goodthing.


You mean like how Modi offered 5000 Muslim a free ticket to meet Allah in Gujarat?

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## casual

why only in xinjiang? should be everywhere in china


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## Jlaw

casual said:


> why only in xinjiang? should be everywhere in china


It should be but evil CCP providing affirmative action for all minorities and suppress the Han majority.


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## haidian

casual said:


> why only in xinjiang? should be everywhere in china


Xinjiang and Tibet, because of China's preferential policies towards ethnic minority groups.They have a better chance and first choice for everything in China, that's indeed very unfair. If for rare animals I can understand different treatment for protection but we are all humans.

*Affirmative action in China*
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action_in_China


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## nang2

HariPrasad said:


> Clearly an effort to subvert the Xinjiang Muslims to Communist Ideology.


Communist ideology isn't crucial but Chinese language is. It is extremely difficult to have different groups of people speaking different languages in the same country, even in India, which is effectively bound together by English.


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## haidian

China used to have one child policy but that didn't apply to ethnic minorities, for college entrance exams even a Han gets a better score still their minority counterpart can go to a better college than they do, in many cases they enjoy all kinds of subsidies and holidaysl... this world is never fair.



nang2 said:


> Communist ideology isn't crucial but Chinese language is. It is extremely difficult to have different groups of people speaking different languages in the same country, even in India, which is effectively bound together by English.


How come in former Soviet Union all minorities can speak Russian and have Russian style names and almost all second generation immigrants can speak English in US? China's education for ethnic minorities was a big flop, Chinese language should be a must in every school.


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## nang2

haidian said:


> How come in former Soviet Union all minorities can speak Russian and have Russian style names and almost all second generation immigrants can speak English in US? China's education for ethnic minorities was a big flop, Chinese language should be a must in every school.


I know. I have been saying that for years. Chinese is THE official language of China. But again, communists don't care much about China constitution anyway.


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## seesonic

HariPrasad said:


> We offer them something which put them on the top of corporate, research, education and all goodthing.



Indian offer its poorest school under the bridge. 

Evil communist build school with proper facilities,coupled with nutritious meal, clothing to brainwash its kids to love the CCCP.

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## HariPrasad

seesonic said:


> Indian offer its poorest school under the bridge.
> 
> Evil communist build school with proper facilities,coupled with nutritious meal, clothing to brainwash its kids to love the CCCP.



Look it. It is very impressive. People even learn under a bridge and becomes CEOs.They are not stupid like you who always remains semi educated.


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## seesonic

HariPrasad said:


> Look it. It is very impressive. People even learn under a bridge and becomes CEOs.They are not stupid like you who always remains *semi educated*.



You seem *semi-literate  *

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## haidian

HariPrasad said:


> Look it. It is very impressive. People even learn under a bridge and becomes CEOs.They are not stupid like you who always remains semi educated.


I don't think you're gonna need 1 billion entrepreneurs or CEOs, but every child should have access to decent education and the one under a bridge is certainly not part of it.


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## SBUS-CXK

Helicopters and tanks perform at the opening ceremony of the International Army Games 2018 in Korla, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region on Sunday. (Photo: Cui Meng)

_*Special: Celebration for China's Army Day*_
*Battle contests showcase weaponry to potential customers*

Hosted by the People's Liberation Army, the International Army Games (IAG) 2018 began in Korla, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region on Sunday, with military observers saying the games will help China promote its military industrial products to worldwide security partners.

Within the framework of the Russian International Army Games 2018, the PLA Army will host three games from Monday to August 11: the Suvorov attack for infantry fighting vehicle crews, clear sky for air defense missile operators and safe route for engineering units, explained PLA Army spokesman Senior Colonel Liao Yanling.

Some 358 participants from China, Belarus, Egypt, Iran, Kazakhstan, Pakistan, Russia, Uzbekistan, Venezuela and Zimbabwe are in Korla, Liao said. 

"Armenia and India will send observer groups," he said,

The PLA Army sent tanks, rocket launchers and Z-9 and WZ-10 armed helicopters to perform live weapon firing during the opening ceremony. 

The seaborne assault contest, hosted by the PLA Navy, kicked off Sunday in the city of Quanzhou in East China's Fujian Province, Xinhua reported.

Initiated by the Russian Ministry of Defense, the games started Saturday, with 28 competitions in total this year. The games are organized by China, Russia, Belarus, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Armenia and Iran.

The main session of the competition kicked off at Russia's Alabino training ground in the Moscow region Saturday.

This year China sent a massive team to Russia for the competition including H-6k bombers, J-10A fighter jets and Type 96B main battle tanks, and Russian agency TASS reported the Chinese team won the tank biathlon - a competition between tank crews - and ranked first in its group on the opening day in Russia.

In the seaborne assault in Quanzhou, participants will use Chinese equipment, with training provided by the organization committee, Chen said. 

In Korla, Russia uses its own BMP-2 infantry fighting vehicles in the Suvorov attack. All foreign participants will use China-made Type 86As. In the clear sky and safe route contests, Russia will also use China-made weapons.

"The IAG is not only a game, but also a marketing and advertising show for military industrial products," Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Sunday. 

Most participants are clients for Chinese and Russian weapons including Iran, Venezuela, Zimbabwe and Pakistan. The games provide significant chances for these countries' military forces to use Chinese or Russian-made equipment and weapons in combat-like military competition, Song said.

China has an edge in amphibious equipment, according to a retired PLA officer and military expert who asked for anonymity. 

"In a seaborne assault, all participants use China-made equipment as China is the only major power to invest great efforts in practicing massive landing operations for solving the Taiwan question when necessary," the officer told the Global Times on Sunday.

http://www.ecns.cn/news/military/2018-07-30/detail-ifywnmyq4945214.shtml

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## haidian

*All cities, prefectures in Xinjiang connected to expressway




*

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## TaiShang

Great development. With connectivity, comes development.

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## haidian

Every 10 day each kid gets a box of free milk . That's great!!

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## Place Of Space

haidian said:


> Every 10 day each kid gets a box of free milk . That's great!!



Kids are the future of nation, hope them all grow up health and clever.

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## oprih

This is ethnic cleansing according to indians and americans.


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## oprih

This is not development, this is ethnic cleansing according to dumb indians and americans.

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## haidian

*Xinjiang to invest 70 billion USD in infrastructure in 2018*
Xinhua

URUMQI, Jan. 5 (Xinhua) -- Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region will allocate at least 450 billion yuan (nearly 70 billion U.S. dollars) for infrastructure construction this year, its planning body said.

The investment will flow to major infrastructure projects including expansion of the Urumqi airport and construction of the region's highway and railway systems.

It will also be poured into construction of the water conservation and management infrastructure and extending the region's power transmission lines.

*In 2017, Xinjiang also invested about 450 billion yuan for infrastructure construction*, an increase of 50 percent year on year.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-01/05/c_136874801.htm

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## haidian

*Just for infrastructure!!* crazy investment every year, with this investment, Xinjiang's gonna look more modern and advanced than Europe and North America very soon.

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## Chakar The Great

Wow excellent. unfair to indians who keep comparing Mumbai vs Beijing and China vs India all the time. China is developing but India is a super power already developed having trillion dollar economy.

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> *Just for infrastructure!!* crazy investment every year, with this investment, Xinjiang's gonna look more modern and advanced than Europe and North America very soon.



Any China region would beat down Indian cities in quality and development -- except Mumbai. 

Mumbai is better than Shanghai. 

@AndrewJin

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## haidian

After people become rich and well eduacated, they will become less radical and more civilized, they will think more about their family, cars, house and bank acounts, the worst bunch is those who have nothing to lose.

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## Kai Liu

China has 34 privincial level admistrative divisions, i.e., 23 provinces, 5 autonomous regions, 4 municipalities, and 2 special admistrative regions (SARs). For these five autonomous regions, i.e. Xinjiang, Tibet, Inner Mongolia, Ningxia, and Guangxi, they all have a significant population of minorities. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomous_regions_of_China
Besides, there are prefectures or counties in provinces other than these five, with a significant minority population, which are usually designated as autonomous prefectures/counties. Now let's take a look at the development of these regions, as usual, *videos without B.S. words show the reality better than those western media* *which are trying make idiots believe people want to go back to the dark age*...
Just wait for one or two decades, those living in shitholes will lick our a$$ every day and night just like they are licking the west right now.

*Inner Mongolia*
Hohhot
*







*Dongsheng city (county-level city)




Ordos




Manzhouli
*







*

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## Kai Liu

*




Xinjiang:*
Urumqi








Korla

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## Kai Liu

*Ningxia*
Yinchuan
*











*
*Guangxi*
Nanning








Liuzhou

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## Kai Liu

*Tibet*
Lhasa
















Nyingchi 





Other regions with a significant minority population, such as:
Yanbian Korean autonomous prefecture:

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> After people become rich and well eduacated, they will become less radical and more civilized, they will think more about their family, cars, house and bank acounts, the worst bunch is those who have nothing to lose.



Exactly. Those losers in life will want to seek solace in after world. And, once someone promises them that they will eat all the cakes in the afterworld that they cannot eat in this world because they have no money, they just can't wait dying.

Middle class means stability. Both Confucius and Aristotle knew it more than 2000 years ago.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

oprih said:


> This is ethnic cleansing according to indians and americans.


I like to be cleaned by this way！

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## Jlaw

beijingwalker said:


> Free milk for Xinjiang kids
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://wlmq.wenming.cn/qxdt/201805/t20180524_5226439.shtml


But no free milk for malnourished Cantonese kids?

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Jlaw said:


> But no free milk for malnourished Cantonese kids?


Canton is developed area of China

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## Kai Liu

Notes: Not just minorities, not just city people, the reality of people's lives here will give the biggest shock to all those western media brainwashed people, see my previous threads:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/afte...ill-call-chinese-farmers-cheap-labors.564550/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cars-on-chinas-roads.562160/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...rom-the-western-media-and-the-reality.551179/
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/seei...hinese-cities-towns-and-villages-like.524372/


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## sweetgrape

No Halal, please!

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## Jlaw

sweetgrape said:


> No Halal, please!


Why fucking minorities in China get special treatment? CCP decrease Han population and raise minority population. CCP ate traitors to real Chinese.


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## sweetgrape

Jlaw said:


> Why fucking minorities in China get special treatment? CCP decrease Han population and raise minority population. CCP ate traitors to real Chinese.


No double that it is wrong ethnic policy, overemphasizing the diversity and preferential policy to minorities, just create parasite, they think the preference is granted, the inequality will divide society, then unstable society. 

But from recent news, I feel that CCP has knew its harm to society, something is changed, hope it could be better.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

You guys are all about funs!
Tibet and Xinjiang regions are relatively backward areas of China. It is very reasonable for the central government to allocate more financial funds to Xinjiang and Tibet.
Xinjiang and Tibet should have more high-tech companies such as huawei or DJI uav drones,Gree,TCL or haier..., which has become the core driving force of the rich regions.


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## onebyone

As more villages and tourist destinations are connected by the expanding road network in Xinjiang, prosperity is being spread around northwest China #TravelinXinjiang

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

more villages and tourist destinations are connected by the expanding road network in Xinjiang

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## TaiShang

Amazing infrastructure

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## haidian

Xinjiang attracts tens of millions visitors all across China every year, tourism becomes one of the mainstay of this region, beautiful scenery and landscapes aside, Xinjiang is also famous for some delicious local cuisines.

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## haidian

Now people are tired of city life, many of them tend to go to small villages to experience the authentic local culture and food.

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## haidian

Those villagers are very smart and innovative, they created many featured tours to attract tourists.

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## haidian

*Main structure of longest railway bridge in Xinjiang completed*

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## haidian

*Desert road in China's Xinjiang creates hundreds of jobs for locals*

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## haidian

Desert village tour package in Xinjiang, local villagers innovative ways to attrack tourists

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## rott

@haidian
You might find this interesting. I couldn't locate the other thread we were discussing about sleeping while driving.


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## haidian

rott said:


> @haidian
> You might find this interesting. I couldn't locate the other thread we were discussing about sleeping while driving.


For me that lasted for just a couple of seconds and then I woke up, I hit nothing..


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## rott

haidian said:


> For me that lasted for just a couple of seconds and then I woke up, I hit nothing..


  I don't know why I find it hilariously cute when you say that.


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## rott

I love this dish... It's been a while since I ate it. Good to be eaten with white rice.

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## haidian

*10pm Beijing time in Xinjiang, still daytime and people just off work*
*



*

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## haidian

*Xinjiang's tourism booms in first seven months*
Source: Xinhua| 2018-08-18 13:44:19|Editor: Li Xia

URUMQI, Aug. 18 (Xinhua) -- Northwest China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region saw more than 78 million tourists in the first seven months, *up 38.72 percent year-on-year,* according to regional statistics.

Tourists have spent more than 121 billion yuan (around 17.6 billion U.S. dollars) in the region during the period, up 40.72 percent from last year.

Emerging tourist attractions in the region and a more developed traffic network are the primary reasons for the strong growth, according to the regional tourism development commission.

Xinjiang saw an increase of 32.4 percent in the number of tourists in 2017, receiving a total of 107 million. Tourists spent over 182 billion yuan in the region, 30 percent more than in 2016.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-08/18/c_137399746.htm

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Bad news for USA invented uyghur camps!

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## Place Of Space

Okay, tourism booms, not cars boom.


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## Fawadqasim1



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## haidian

This fact shows how peaceful and developed Xinjiang is now, stability and development brings tourism, tourism in turn make locals rich, happy for both locals and tourists.

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## haidian

Taste of Xinjiang, Good program to allure tourists

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## hiseen

not official video/not a star~just updated life videos every day at tiktok. 
















1949 there are 1 million Muslims in China. 2018 there are 10 million Muslims in China.
If you need to imprison 10%, The idiot will wait till today.
*And B plan: Learning American practices, After the August 2014 incident*,

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## GHALIB

xingxiang looks to be free from bigotry . thanks to chinese system.

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## hiseen

Muslims in Malaysia, Syifa's Video in China.

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## GHALIB

hiseen said:


> Muslims in Malaysia, Syifa's Video in China.



very nice .

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## rambro

Those youtubers who travelled, some lived years if not decades in China not a single one reports of what the western propaganda media reports about Xinjiang.

I know evil when i see one, that is the western regime.

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## AMG_12

Pure western propaganda being spread to strain China's relation with the muslim world. One of my best friends is Hui Chinese and she has never complained about anything as such. She comes from Qinghai region, her family is settled in Yiwu while she's in Malaysia.

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## hiseen

Game.Invade said:


> Pure western propaganda being spread to strain China's relation with the muslim world. One of my best friends is Hui Chinese and she has never complained about anything as such. She comes from Qinghai region, her family is settled in Yiwu while she's in Malaysia.



I spend most of my time in China, I just there are 5 provinces left without sightseeing.
But I have many ethnic friends, including friends from Taiwan, Some of them will have many complaints, But no one wants the government to resign.
Everyone is concerned about his life, For thousands of years, Chinese people have been concerned about their families, their lives and their safety, If you want to improve the country, partake politics and be an official. Instead of making trouble, This is the wisdom of Confucianism in Chinese bones, Western donkeys can't understand!

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## Jlaw

Chinese defending terrorists. Xinjiang this , Xinjiang that. Man you guys are so desperate to prove there's no reeducation camps for Uyghurs causing Chinese to post so many positive articles about Uyghurs. Look like western media is effecting you guys more than you like to believe.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Lovely pictures and great culture.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

USA,UK would like very much to make CHINA Xinjiang the 2rd Iraq and Lybia,chaos and chaos,explosion one after another,we chinese and CHINA PLA will definitely not allow this to happen.
Chineses including Uyhur,Mongolian,tibetain chineses etc.are deserved to have better life,and USA can not bring betfer life to chineses but chineses themselves!

Same to Pakistani bros,please open your eyes and use your wisdoms to judge whether USA and india will do good or bad to Pakistani people or whether USA gov can be trusted or not!

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

hiseen said:


> not official video/not a star~just updated life videos every day at tiktok.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1949 there are 1 million Muslims in China. 2018 there are 10 million Muslims in China.
> If you need to imprison 10%, The idiot will wait till today.
> *And B plan: Learning American practices, After the August 2014 incident*,


No actually there are 23 millions chinese musilms in 2017 acounted 1.75 % of total chinese population.



rambro said:


> Those youtubers who travelled, some lived years if not decades in China not a single one reports of what the western propaganda media reports about Xinjiang.
> 
> I know evil when i see one, that is the western regime.


western regim make rules and invented news to satisfy its needs and flatter its voters!
such as chinese gov takes human organs from alive people,chinese pla massacre uyhur,bla bla,...obvious fake news,can not be more fake!!!

only nazy and jap army did those during WWII.
but some beleive chinese gov did.
well you can not argue with western media brainwashed people.
the truth is chineses are living in the best era than ever! GDP,per capita from 250USD in1949 to 9150 USD in 2017.
i do not think americain gov cares chinese wellbeing and benifits that much,only wants to undermine chinese gov and strenghs and so that they can benifits from it.
so western media for us chinese are 99% nothing but bullshits!
thanks for your time!



GHALIB said:


> xingxiang looks to be free from bigotry . thanks to chinese system.


bigotry is not allowed why coz,there are boudhism,socialism,communism,taoism,christian,othodox,....they should be equal,under chinese communist party leadership !

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## haidian

Every time when the west seems to be defending Muslims, they harbor an evil motive. Every single time.

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## sweetgrape

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> USA,UK would like very much to make CHINA Xinjiang the 2rd Iraq and Lybia,chaos and chaos,explosion one after another,we chinese and CHINA PLA will definitely not allow this to happen.
> Chineses including Uyhur,Mongolian,tibetain chineses etc.are deserved to have better life,and USA can not bring betfer life to chineses but chineses themselves!
> 
> Same to Pakistani bros,please open your eyes and use your wisdoms to judge whether USA and india will do good or bad to Pakistani people or whether USA gov can be trusted or not!


American(normal American and USA government) are shit in front of 1.4 billion Chinese.

Xinjiang are very beautiful place, hope one day, I have enough time to have a self-driving travel with my wife, drive the car on that beautiful road pass through the desert.

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## sweetgrape

hiseen said:


> I spend most of my time in China, I just there are 5 provinces left without sightseeing.
> But I have many ethnic friends, including friends from Taiwan, Some of them will have many complaints, But no one wants the government to resign.
> Everyone is concerned about his life, For thousands of years, Chinese people have been concerned about their families, their lives and their safety, If you want to improve the country, partake politics and be an official. Instead of making trouble, This is the wisdom of Confucianism in Chinese bones, Western donkeys can't understand!


The kindness to Chinese from Western(Normal western and Government) only exist when China are weak and can't threaten them, but when Chinese are live well, even better than them, they will expose their ugly side, they can understand it, but can't accept it, only when you are strong enough, can crash them easily, they will smile to you, although it is hypocritical, they are always.

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## Place Of Space

sweetgrape said:


> The kindness to Chinese from Western(Normal western and Government) only exist when China are weak and can't threaten them, but when Chinese are live well, even better than them, they will expose their ugly side, they can understand it, but can't accept it, only when you are strong enough, can crash them easily, they will smile to you, although it is hypocritical, they are always.



Never changed.


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## hiseen

I have completed my 10 day trip recently. Related to work, Looking for scenery in Southern Rural Areas. All we see is the government's efforts to implement the poverty eradication project, and Crack down on criminal gangs, Amazing speed update infrastructure, I even saw a very remote mountain village, Only about 30 people, The government has opened a cement road for them, which is very wide, More than 10 kilometres long, of course there are many other things. Why do they need to object?

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## oprih

Fake news western media will never win. The Chinese people will forever be united with the Chinese government in fighting to stop the evil and chaos loving western countries.


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## oprih

China is a beautiful country.


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## haidian

Desert cuisine


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## haidian

Western media portrays Chinese adult training schools, which are everywhere all across China, " Re education" camps. Those centers and schools are government programs to train adults to learn a trade and put them in a better position to find a higher paying job in the future. In a sense, that is re education cause very often those adults don't have enough education to land them a good job.

Those centers and schools are everywhere in China but when the western media find them in Xinjiang, they become "Re education camps".

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## haidian



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## grandmaster

Western propaganda spreading fake news on purpose. China media should actively response to them by reminding the world about wars of US with Muslim countries currently.

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## kankan326

We all know turning adult Muslims into non-Mulsims is an impossible task. How stupid Chinese government would be if they waste time and money doing that.

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## haidian

kankan326 said:


> We all know turning adult Muslims into non-Mulsims is an impossible task. How stupid Chinese government would be if they waste time and money doing that.


All they want is an Afghanistan or Syria in China where brothers kill brothers and families kill families. They just can't bear to see such a peaceful, thriving and prosperous Xinjaing or Tibet.

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## haidian

Li Xiaojun, director for publicity at the Bureau of Human Rights Affairs of the State Council Information Office. "What China is doing is to establish professional training centres, educational centres."

"To put it straight, it’s like vocational training ... like your children go to vocational training schools to get better skills and better jobs after graduation.

Islam was a good thing in China's view, but Islamic extremists were the common foes of mankind, he said.

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## rambro

When western propaganda machines work overtime, it is telling you something.

They want you to have internal turmoil, that is when they will come in and play on the religion card to divide n conquer.

They thrive on chaos

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## rott

This is because China is doing something RIGHT. 

Very predictable western media.

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## haidian

Xinjiang Re education camp

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## Turingsage

Eastern Media

*Escape from Xinjiang: Muslim Uighurs speak of China persecution*
Testimonies by Muslim Uighurs who escaped Xinjiang confirm reports of 'systematic campaign of human rights violations'.



by Ted Regencia
10 Sept 2018





Government social media post in April 2017 shows detainees in a camp in Hotan Prefecture [Image obtained by HRW]
*MORE ON ASIA PACIFIC*

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WEF on ASEAN: Trade, regional disputes supersede agendatoday
Cambodia's Hun Sen tells world: Leave Indochina alonetoday
Thai laws set May 2019 deadline for new electionstoday
Istanbul, Turkey - In April 2017, Tarim, a 48-year-old businessman from Urumqi, the capital of China's Muslim Xinjiang region, received a phone call from the police summoning him to their offices in Aksu prefecture, 900km to the southwest.

Tarim knew at once that he was in trouble and devised a getaway, keeping the details to himself. He had just a few hours to carry out his plan.

Two days earlier, he was in Aksu for an attempt to rescue his sister Zohra, who was sent to a "re-education camp", after travelling to Turkey with him and their mother in 2016.

With a payment of 20,000 Chinese yuan ($2,900), he convinced officials to allow him to visit his sister. He had originally intended to use the money to convince the same local officials to let her out, but he was told that was impossible. 



WATCH
25:10


*Is China holding Uighur Muslims in secret camps?*
What he saw inside his sister's camp convinced him it was time for him to leave Xinjiang, he said. 

Tarim's testimony about what's happening to the Uighurs in Xinjiang, and interviews with two Uighur women in Istanbul, also line up with Human Rights Watch's (HRW) latest report accusing China of "conducting a mass, systematic campaign of human rights violations", against the Turkic-speaking Muslim minority group. 

Tarim's sister was detained with up to 3,000 others near a military base a few kilometres north of Xayar, a city in Aksu. 

A five-metre-high fence with barbed wire kept the camp secure and out of public view. Outside, a sign reads: "No Communist, No China."

Tarim had to pass through two security gates to reach the main entrance, which was guarded by two uniformed men. About 30 metres from the entrance was another security checkpoint with about 25 soldiers and uniformed personnel standing next to armoured vehicles.

While waiting for his sister, Tarim said he saw a group of around 500 people squatting on the ground.

It seemed like they had just arrived, as they were changing from their regular street clothes, to the bright blue uniforms issued by the camp. All the men had clean-shaven heads.





Tarim provided a handwritten map of the camp in Xayar, where his sister was 'detained' [Al Jazeera]
It was past seven in the evening when Tarim arrived at the camp but the sun was still up, so he managed to recognise some of the faces among the crowd from his old neighbourhood in Aksu. 

After about an hour, Tarim's 33-year-old sister, Zohra, was finally brought to the waiting area, where they had a chance to talk for a "very short" period. 

He noticed that Zohra was not her usual self and said that she looked pale. Dark spots formed around her eyes, which welled with tears.

As they spoke, a female security guard and two men watched over them.

Zohra told her brother that she needed to complete some "lessons" and undergo a test afterwards. If she passed the test, she would be released.

She never said how long she would be staying in the camp, and Tarim never found out. After talking to her for 10 minutes, he was on his way out of the building. 

*Flight to Astana*
Tarim's failed attempt at freeing his sister must have alerted other authorities. Two days later, the call from the police came. Fearing that his detention was imminent, he scrambled to find a way out.

The day after receiving the call, Tarim showed up at Urumqi's Diwopu International Airport to fly to Aksu as requested by the police. 

With just a small piece of hand luggage and a plane ticket, he checked in for his domestic flight, which was scheduled for 9:55am. As proof, he took a photo of his boarding pass and sent it to the authorities waiting for his arrival.

Tarim had never gotten into trouble before, so he was not on any government "blacklist", which would have alerted authorities. Failing to report to police headquarters in Aksu, would have automatically put him on that list. That's why he complied with their request. 

WATCH: The plight of the Uighurs (2:21)


For Tarim, Xinjiang is home, and he never thought that he would have to give up his lucrative business there. At 16, he started working as a fruit seller and textile vendor, and had since amassed considerable wealth.

But he was quick to act once he got the opening to leave.

While waiting at the airport, he called his office in Urumqi with an instruction to book him the earliest flight to Istanbul-Chinese passport holders can apply for a visa on arrival in Turkey.

The plane to Istanbul was leaving at 10:40 am via Astana, the capital of neighbouring Kazakhstan.

Instead of taking his flight to Aksu, Tarim proceeded to a different gate to board a plane that would take him to Istanbul. Between his original flight and the boarding time to Astana, he only had few minutes to spare. 

As he waited for his getaway flight to take off, Tarim told Al Jazeera that he shook with the fear that he might get caught.

"I could not believe how I did it. I was trembling."

*HRW report*
Tarim's testimony bolsters HRW's latest report, which claims that as many as one million people are being held in "camps" across China's western region.





Turkic-speaking Muslim Uighurs make up eight million of Xinjiang's 19 million population [File: AP].
It also corroborates recent UN findings detailing a "mass surveillance" programme "disproportionately targeting" the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities.

For its report, HRW interviewed at least 58 former residents of Xinjiang, including five former detainees. Al Jazeera interviewed Tarim and the two other Uighur women separately.

China has rejected the latest UN report. It said tough security measures in Xinjiang were necessary to combat "extremism and terrorism", but added it did not target specific ethnic group or restrict religious freedoms.

Beijing also said that people with "minor offences were provided with assistance and education to assist them in their rehabilitation and reintegration".

According to conservative estimates, there are an estimated eight million Uighurs in Xinjiang, out of a population of 19 million.

Commenting earlier on the UN report, Amnesty International's Deputy East Asia Director Lisa Tassi urged the Chinese government to "heed the call to tackle serious human rights violations".

"Rather than dismissing the [UN] Committee's recommendations, it must immediately set out next steps to address them," Tassi said in a statement, while calling on the international community to hold Beijing to account "for its repression of ethnic minorities and cultures".





Tarim now lives in Turkey with his family, who had fled earlier [Ted Regencia/Al Jazeera]
Years of migration by the Han Chinese have turned the Uighurs into a minority in their own region. Since then, they have complained of more discrimination against their culture, language and religion.

*'Counter extremism training centres'*
Reports of mass detentions at "re-education camps" in Xinjiang started to filter out of China in 2017.

According to an earlier HRW report, forcible detentions of "thousands of Uighurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities" started in April 2017, around the same time Tarim's sister was detained.

State-backed media referred to the camps as "counter-extremism training centres", while critics call them "concentration camps".

Scenes similar to what Tarim had described were repeated across Xinjiang in early 2017, as the Chinese government stepped up security efforts in the region, following unrest in 2016 and in previous years.

Human Rights Watch said the "level of repression increased dramatically" after Communist Party Secretary Chen Quanguo relocated from the Tibet Autonomous Region to assume leadership of Xinjiang in late 2016.

"The Chinese government is committing human rights abuses in Xinjiang on a scale unseen in the country in decades," Sophie Richardson, China director at Human Rights Watch, said in the report.

On Monday, September 10, new UN rights chief, Michelle Bachelet, highlighted China's treatment of the Uighurs, saying UN investigation "brought to light deeply disturbing allegations of large-scale arbitrary detentions" in Xinjiang. 





Belkez said authorities took her three-and-a-half-year-old daughter in 2017 [Ted Regencia/Al Jazeera]
*Ramadan ban*
Belkez, a 38-year-old Uighur who now lives in Istanbul, said Chinese authorities took her mother, father and husband to a re-education camp in April 2017.

She does not know the whereabouts of her three-year-old daughter, who was also taken by authorities.

Belkez, who was a former local government employee in Urumqi, and her five children left for Egypt in September 2016.

She was hoping her husband and youngest child would join them shortly after. Like Turkey, Egypt also offers visa on arrival for Chinese citizens.

But her husband and their infant daughter never got their passport. The last time she spoke to her husband was on April 1, 2017, just days before his detention. 

"I never thought that it was the last time that we would speak to each other," Belkez told Al Jazeera, as she tried to hold back her tears.

Years of government repression, including the prohibition of the hijab and fasting during Ramadan, pushed her family to finally leave Xinjiang, she said.

Belkez and her five children stayed in Egypt for nine months, before deciding to move to Turkey.





China has also been accused of carrying out political indoctrination on Muslim Uighurs [File: AP]
Rebiya, a 43-year-old former resident of Urumqi, left with her two children, aged 12 and three years on January 28, 2017. Four months later, she expected that her husband would follow. But he was held at Urumqi's airport and later sent to prison.

She has not heard from her family since October 2017 and has since stopped trying to make any contact to avoid putting them into more trouble with the Chinese authorities.

Rebiya also recalled the riots in 2009, when she said she witnessed a Muslim Uighur couple and their four-year-old child being killed during a knife attack.

"The pain and anguish of families torn apart, with no knowledge of what's happened to their loved ones stands in stark contrast to Beijing's claims that Turkic Muslims are 'happy' and 'grateful,'" said Richardson of HRW. 

*New life in Istanbul*
WATCH: China imposes restrictions on Muslim Uighurs (2:44)
Like Rebiya's husband, Tarim, the Uighur businessman, could have encountered the same fate at Urumqi's international airport, but he managed to slip out. 

Tarim's hands started to fidget as he recalled to Al Jazeera those crucial minutes of his escape.

He shook his head repeatedly in disbelief.

Even after arriving in Astana for his connecting flight to Istanbul, Tarim was still fearful of being sent back to China.

The Kazakh government has been accused of deporting Uighurs to Xinjiang, according to the US-funded Radio Free Asia and the Uyghur Human Rights Project.

For Tarim, the hours spent in Astana during his layover were a torment.

"What if the Chinese authorities suddenly call Kazakhstan and ask that he be deported," he wondered nervously.

He arrived in Istanbul on April 11, 2017, to start a new life, joining his wife and children, who had already fled to Turkey earlier.

Tarim said he still fears for his safety, and that of his family members who are left behind, that's why he hesitated for a long time before talking about his experience.

"But the world has to know what the Chinese government is doing to the Uighurs. Even the dogs have more rights than the Uighurs in China."

SOURCE: AL JAZEERA NEWS


There are tens of filmed documentaries on Al jazeera to view just go have a look at first hand testimony of inmates from the "re-education camps"

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...-speak-china-persecution-180907125030717.html

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## haidian

Turingsage said:


> Eastern Media
> 
> *Escape from Xinjiang: Muslim Uighurs speak of China persecution*
> Testimonies by Muslim Uighurs who escaped Xinjiang confirm reports of 'systematic campaign of human rights violations'.
> 
> 
> 
> by Ted Regencia
> 10 Sept 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government social media post in April 2017 shows detainees in a camp in Hotan Prefecture [Image obtained by HRW]
> *MORE ON ASIA PACIFIC*
> 
> Evacuations begin as Typhoon Mangkhut approaches the Philippinestoday
> WEF on ASEAN: Trade, regional disputes supersede agendatoday
> Cambodia's Hun Sen tells world: Leave Indochina alonetoday
> Thai laws set May 2019 deadline for new electionstoday
> Istanbul, Turkey - In April 2017, Tarim, a 48-year-old businessman from Urumqi, the capital of China's Muslim Xinjiang region, received a phone call from the police summoning him to their offices in Aksu prefecture, 900km to the southwest.
> 
> Tarim knew at once that he was in trouble and devised a getaway, keeping the details to himself. He had just a few hours to carry out his plan.
> 
> Two days earlier, he was in Aksu for an attempt to rescue his sister Zohra, who was sent to a "re-education camp", after travelling to Turkey with him and their mother in 2016.
> 
> With a payment of 20,000 Chinese yuan ($2,900), he convinced officials to allow him to visit his sister. He had originally intended to use the money to convince the same local officials to let her out, but he was told that was impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH
> 25:10
> 
> 
> *Is China holding Uighur Muslims in secret camps?*
> What he saw inside his sister's camp convinced him it was time for him to leave Xinjiang, he said.
> 
> Tarim's testimony about what's happening to the Uighurs in Xinjiang, and interviews with two Uighur women in Istanbul, also line up with Human Rights Watch's (HRW) latest report accusing China of "conducting a mass, systematic campaign of human rights violations", against the Turkic-speaking Muslim minority group.
> 
> Tarim's sister was detained with up to 3,000 others near a military base a few kilometres north of Xayar, a city in Aksu.
> 
> A five-metre-high fence with barbed wire kept the camp secure and out of public view. Outside, a sign reads: "No Communist, No China."
> 
> Tarim had to pass through two security gates to reach the main entrance, which was guarded by two uniformed men. About 30 metres from the entrance was another security checkpoint with about 25 soldiers and uniformed personnel standing next to armoured vehicles.
> 
> While waiting for his sister, Tarim said he saw a group of around 500 people squatting on the ground.
> 
> It seemed like they had just arrived, as they were changing from their regular street clothes, to the bright blue uniforms issued by the camp. All the men had clean-shaven heads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tarim provided a handwritten map of the camp in Xayar, where his sister was 'detained' [Al Jazeera]
> It was past seven in the evening when Tarim arrived at the camp but the sun was still up, so he managed to recognise some of the faces among the crowd from his old neighbourhood in Aksu.
> 
> After about an hour, Tarim's 33-year-old sister, Zohra, was finally brought to the waiting area, where they had a chance to talk for a "very short" period.
> 
> He noticed that Zohra was not her usual self and said that she looked pale. Dark spots formed around her eyes, which welled with tears.
> 
> As they spoke, a female security guard and two men watched over them.
> 
> Zohra told her brother that she needed to complete some "lessons" and undergo a test afterwards. If she passed the test, she would be released.
> 
> She never said how long she would be staying in the camp, and Tarim never found out. After talking to her for 10 minutes, he was on his way out of the building.
> 
> *Flight to Astana*
> Tarim's failed attempt at freeing his sister must have alerted other authorities. Two days later, the call from the police came. Fearing that his detention was imminent, he scrambled to find a way out.
> 
> The day after receiving the call, Tarim showed up at Urumqi's Diwopu International Airport to fly to Aksu as requested by the police.
> 
> With just a small piece of hand luggage and a plane ticket, he checked in for his domestic flight, which was scheduled for 9:55am. As proof, he took a photo of his boarding pass and sent it to the authorities waiting for his arrival.
> 
> Tarim had never gotten into trouble before, so he was not on any government "blacklist", which would have alerted authorities. Failing to report to police headquarters in Aksu, would have automatically put him on that list. That's why he complied with their request.
> 
> WATCH: The plight of the Uighurs (2:21)
> 
> 
> For Tarim, Xinjiang is home, and he never thought that he would have to give up his lucrative business there. At 16, he started working as a fruit seller and textile vendor, and had since amassed considerable wealth.
> 
> But he was quick to act once he got the opening to leave.
> 
> While waiting at the airport, he called his office in Urumqi with an instruction to book him the earliest flight to Istanbul-Chinese passport holders can apply for a visa on arrival in Turkey.
> 
> The plane to Istanbul was leaving at 10:40 am via Astana, the capital of neighbouring Kazakhstan.
> 
> Instead of taking his flight to Aksu, Tarim proceeded to a different gate to board a plane that would take him to Istanbul. Between his original flight and the boarding time to Astana, he only had few minutes to spare.
> 
> As he waited for his getaway flight to take off, Tarim told Al Jazeera that he shook with the fear that he might get caught.
> 
> "I could not believe how I did it. I was trembling."
> 
> *HRW report*
> Tarim's testimony bolsters HRW's latest report, which claims that as many as one million people are being held in "camps" across China's western region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkic-speaking Muslim Uighurs make up eight million of Xinjiang's 19 million population [File: AP].
> It also corroborates recent UN findings detailing a "mass surveillance" programme "disproportionately targeting" the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities.
> 
> For its report, HRW interviewed at least 58 former residents of Xinjiang, including five former detainees. Al Jazeera interviewed Tarim and the two other Uighur women separately.
> 
> China has rejected the latest UN report. It said tough security measures in Xinjiang were necessary to combat "extremism and terrorism", but added it did not target specific ethnic group or restrict religious freedoms.
> 
> Beijing also said that people with "minor offences were provided with assistance and education to assist them in their rehabilitation and reintegration".
> 
> According to conservative estimates, there are an estimated eight million Uighurs in Xinjiang, out of a population of 19 million.
> 
> Commenting earlier on the UN report, Amnesty International's Deputy East Asia Director Lisa Tassi urged the Chinese government to "heed the call to tackle serious human rights violations".
> 
> "Rather than dismissing the [UN] Committee's recommendations, it must immediately set out next steps to address them," Tassi said in a statement, while calling on the international community to hold Beijing to account "for its repression of ethnic minorities and cultures".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tarim now lives in Turkey with his family, who had fled earlier [Ted Regencia/Al Jazeera]
> Years of migration by the Han Chinese have turned the Uighurs into a minority in their own region. Since then, they have complained of more discrimination against their culture, language and religion.
> 
> *'Counter extremism training centres'*
> Reports of mass detentions at "re-education camps" in Xinjiang started to filter out of China in 2017.
> 
> According to an earlier HRW report, forcible detentions of "thousands of Uighurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities" started in April 2017, around the same time Tarim's sister was detained.
> 
> State-backed media referred to the camps as "counter-extremism training centres", while critics call them "concentration camps".
> 
> Scenes similar to what Tarim had described were repeated across Xinjiang in early 2017, as the Chinese government stepped up security efforts in the region, following unrest in 2016 and in previous years.
> 
> Human Rights Watch said the "level of repression increased dramatically" after Communist Party Secretary Chen Quanguo relocated from the Tibet Autonomous Region to assume leadership of Xinjiang in late 2016.
> 
> "The Chinese government is committing human rights abuses in Xinjiang on a scale unseen in the country in decades," Sophie Richardson, China director at Human Rights Watch, said in the report.
> 
> On Monday, September 10, new UN rights chief, Michelle Bachelet, highlighted China's treatment of the Uighurs, saying UN investigation "brought to light deeply disturbing allegations of large-scale arbitrary detentions" in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belkez said authorities took her three-and-a-half-year-old daughter in 2017 [Ted Regencia/Al Jazeera]
> *Ramadan ban*
> Belkez, a 38-year-old Uighur who now lives in Istanbul, said Chinese authorities took her mother, father and husband to a re-education camp in April 2017.
> 
> She does not know the whereabouts of her three-year-old daughter, who was also taken by authorities.
> 
> Belkez, who was a former local government employee in Urumqi, and her five children left for Egypt in September 2016.
> 
> She was hoping her husband and youngest child would join them shortly after. Like Turkey, Egypt also offers visa on arrival for Chinese citizens.
> 
> But her husband and their infant daughter never got their passport. The last time she spoke to her husband was on April 1, 2017, just days before his detention.
> 
> "I never thought that it was the last time that we would speak to each other," Belkez told Al Jazeera, as she tried to hold back her tears.
> 
> Years of government repression, including the prohibition of the hijab and fasting during Ramadan, pushed her family to finally leave Xinjiang, she said.
> 
> Belkez and her five children stayed in Egypt for nine months, before deciding to move to Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has also been accused of carrying out political indoctrination on Muslim Uighurs [File: AP]
> Rebiya, a 43-year-old former resident of Urumqi, left with her two children, aged 12 and three years on January 28, 2017. Four months later, she expected that her husband would follow. But he was held at Urumqi's airport and later sent to prison.
> 
> She has not heard from her family since October 2017 and has since stopped trying to make any contact to avoid putting them into more trouble with the Chinese authorities.
> 
> Rebiya also recalled the riots in 2009, when she said she witnessed a Muslim Uighur couple and their four-year-old child being killed during a knife attack.
> 
> "The pain and anguish of families torn apart, with no knowledge of what's happened to their loved ones stands in stark contrast to Beijing's claims that Turkic Muslims are 'happy' and 'grateful,'" said Richardson of HRW.
> 
> *New life in Istanbul*
> WATCH: China imposes restrictions on Muslim Uighurs (2:44)
> Like Rebiya's husband, Tarim, the Uighur businessman, could have encountered the same fate at Urumqi's international airport, but he managed to slip out.
> 
> Tarim's hands started to fidget as he recalled to Al Jazeera those crucial minutes of his escape.
> 
> He shook his head repeatedly in disbelief.
> 
> Even after arriving in Astana for his connecting flight to Istanbul, Tarim was still fearful of being sent back to China.
> 
> The Kazakh government has been accused of deporting Uighurs to Xinjiang, according to the US-funded Radio Free Asia and the Uyghur Human Rights Project.
> 
> For Tarim, the hours spent in Astana during his layover were a torment.
> 
> "What if the Chinese authorities suddenly call Kazakhstan and ask that he be deported," he wondered nervously.
> 
> He arrived in Istanbul on April 11, 2017, to start a new life, joining his wife and children, who had already fled to Turkey earlier.
> 
> Tarim said he still fears for his safety, and that of his family members who are left behind, that's why he hesitated for a long time before talking about his experience.
> 
> "But the world has to know what the Chinese government is doing to the Uighurs. Even the dogs have more rights than the Uighurs in China."
> 
> SOURCE: AL JAZEERA NEWS
> 
> 
> There are tens of filmed documentaries on Al jazeera to view just go have a look at first hand testimony of inmates from the "re-education camps"
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...-speak-china-persecution-180907125030717.html


Criminals , escaped or not, can always make up stories to tell other that they are not.

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## Flynn Swagmire

haidian said:


> Criminals , escaped or not, can always make up stories to tell other that they are not.


Right!

But, how do we know you are telling the truth?

Historically commis were and still are not known for honesty and honor...


----------



## till death do us party

West unable to see China coping with their attempts to spark extremist violence.


----------



## hiseen

Turingsage said:


> Eastern Media
> 
> *Escape from Xinjiang: Muslim Uighurs speak of China persecution*
> Testimonies by Muslim Uighurs who escaped Xinjiang confirm reports of 'systematic campaign of human rights violations'.
> 
> 
> 
> by Ted Regencia
> 10 Sept 2018
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Government social media post in April 2017 shows detainees in a camp in Hotan Prefecture [Image obtained by HRW]
> *MORE ON ASIA PACIFIC*
> 
> Evacuations begin as Typhoon Mangkhut approaches the Philippinestoday
> WEF on ASEAN: Trade, regional disputes supersede agendatoday
> Cambodia's Hun Sen tells world: Leave Indochina alonetoday
> Thai laws set May 2019 deadline for new electionstoday
> Istanbul, Turkey - In April 2017, Tarim, a 48-year-old businessman from Urumqi, the capital of China's Muslim Xinjiang region, received a phone call from the police summoning him to their offices in Aksu prefecture, 900km to the southwest.
> 
> Tarim knew at once that he was in trouble and devised a getaway, keeping the details to himself. He had just a few hours to carry out his plan.
> 
> Two days earlier, he was in Aksu for an attempt to rescue his sister Zohra, who was sent to a "re-education camp", after travelling to Turkey with him and their mother in 2016.
> 
> With a payment of 20,000 Chinese yuan ($2,900), he convinced officials to allow him to visit his sister. He had originally intended to use the money to convince the same local officials to let her out, but he was told that was impossible.
> 
> 
> 
> WATCH
> 25:10
> 
> 
> *Is China holding Uighur Muslims in secret camps?*
> What he saw inside his sister's camp convinced him it was time for him to leave Xinjiang, he said.
> 
> Tarim's testimony about what's happening to the Uighurs in Xinjiang, and interviews with two Uighur women in Istanbul, also line up with Human Rights Watch's (HRW) latest report accusing China of "conducting a mass, systematic campaign of human rights violations", against the Turkic-speaking Muslim minority group.
> 
> Tarim's sister was detained with up to 3,000 others near a military base a few kilometres north of Xayar, a city in Aksu.
> 
> A five-metre-high fence with barbed wire kept the camp secure and out of public view. Outside, a sign reads: "No Communist, No China."
> 
> Tarim had to pass through two security gates to reach the main entrance, which was guarded by two uniformed men. About 30 metres from the entrance was another security checkpoint with about 25 soldiers and uniformed personnel standing next to armoured vehicles.
> 
> While waiting for his sister, Tarim said he saw a group of around 500 people squatting on the ground.
> 
> It seemed like they had just arrived, as they were changing from their regular street clothes, to the bright blue uniforms issued by the camp. All the men had clean-shaven heads.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tarim provided a handwritten map of the camp in Xayar, where his sister was 'detained' [Al Jazeera]
> It was past seven in the evening when Tarim arrived at the camp but the sun was still up, so he managed to recognise some of the faces among the crowd from his old neighbourhood in Aksu.
> 
> After about an hour, Tarim's 33-year-old sister, Zohra, was finally brought to the waiting area, where they had a chance to talk for a "very short" period.
> 
> He noticed that Zohra was not her usual self and said that she looked pale. Dark spots formed around her eyes, which welled with tears.
> 
> As they spoke, a female security guard and two men watched over them.
> 
> Zohra told her brother that she needed to complete some "lessons" and undergo a test afterwards. If she passed the test, she would be released.
> 
> She never said how long she would be staying in the camp, and Tarim never found out. After talking to her for 10 minutes, he was on his way out of the building.
> 
> *Flight to Astana*
> Tarim's failed attempt at freeing his sister must have alerted other authorities. Two days later, the call from the police came. Fearing that his detention was imminent, he scrambled to find a way out.
> 
> The day after receiving the call, Tarim showed up at Urumqi's Diwopu International Airport to fly to Aksu as requested by the police.
> 
> With just a small piece of hand luggage and a plane ticket, he checked in for his domestic flight, which was scheduled for 9:55am. As proof, he took a photo of his boarding pass and sent it to the authorities waiting for his arrival.
> 
> Tarim had never gotten into trouble before, so he was not on any government "blacklist", which would have alerted authorities. Failing to report to police headquarters in Aksu, would have automatically put him on that list. That's why he complied with their request.
> 
> WATCH: The plight of the Uighurs (2:21)
> 
> 
> For Tarim, Xinjiang is home, and he never thought that he would have to give up his lucrative business there. At 16, he started working as a fruit seller and textile vendor, and had since amassed considerable wealth.
> 
> But he was quick to act once he got the opening to leave.
> 
> While waiting at the airport, he called his office in Urumqi with an instruction to book him the earliest flight to Istanbul-Chinese passport holders can apply for a visa on arrival in Turkey.
> 
> The plane to Istanbul was leaving at 10:40 am via Astana, the capital of neighbouring Kazakhstan.
> 
> Instead of taking his flight to Aksu, Tarim proceeded to a different gate to board a plane that would take him to Istanbul. Between his original flight and the boarding time to Astana, he only had few minutes to spare.
> 
> As he waited for his getaway flight to take off, Tarim told Al Jazeera that he shook with the fear that he might get caught.
> 
> "I could not believe how I did it. I was trembling."
> 
> *HRW report*
> Tarim's testimony bolsters HRW's latest report, which claims that as many as one million people are being held in "camps" across China's western region.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkic-speaking Muslim Uighurs make up eight million of Xinjiang's 19 million population [File: AP].
> It also corroborates recent UN findings detailing a "mass surveillance" programme "disproportionately targeting" the Uighurs and other Muslim minorities.
> 
> For its report, HRW interviewed at least 58 former residents of Xinjiang, including five former detainees. Al Jazeera interviewed Tarim and the two other Uighur women separately.
> 
> China has rejected the latest UN report. It said tough security measures in Xinjiang were necessary to combat "extremism and terrorism", but added it did not target specific ethnic group or restrict religious freedoms.
> 
> Beijing also said that people with "minor offences were provided with assistance and education to assist them in their rehabilitation and reintegration".
> 
> According to conservative estimates, there are an estimated eight million Uighurs in Xinjiang, out of a population of 19 million.
> 
> Commenting earlier on the UN report, Amnesty International's Deputy East Asia Director Lisa Tassi urged the Chinese government to "heed the call to tackle serious human rights violations".
> 
> "Rather than dismissing the [UN] Committee's recommendations, it must immediately set out next steps to address them," Tassi said in a statement, while calling on the international community to hold Beijing to account "for its repression of ethnic minorities and cultures".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tarim now lives in Turkey with his family, who had fled earlier [Ted Regencia/Al Jazeera]
> Years of migration by the Han Chinese have turned the Uighurs into a minority in their own region. Since then, they have complained of more discrimination against their culture, language and religion.
> 
> *'Counter extremism training centres'*
> Reports of mass detentions at "re-education camps" in Xinjiang started to filter out of China in 2017.
> 
> According to an earlier HRW report, forcible detentions of "thousands of Uighurs and other Turkic Muslim minorities" started in April 2017, around the same time Tarim's sister was detained.
> 
> State-backed media referred to the camps as "counter-extremism training centres", while critics call them "concentration camps".
> 
> Scenes similar to what Tarim had described were repeated across Xinjiang in early 2017, as the Chinese government stepped up security efforts in the region, following unrest in 2016 and in previous years.
> 
> Human Rights Watch said the "level of repression increased dramatically" after Communist Party Secretary Chen Quanguo relocated from the Tibet Autonomous Region to assume leadership of Xinjiang in late 2016.
> 
> "The Chinese government is committing human rights abuses in Xinjiang on a scale unseen in the country in decades," Sophie Richardson, China director at Human Rights Watch, said in the report.
> 
> On Monday, September 10, new UN rights chief, Michelle Bachelet, highlighted China's treatment of the Uighurs, saying UN investigation "brought to light deeply disturbing allegations of large-scale arbitrary detentions" in Xinjiang.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Belkez said authorities took her three-and-a-half-year-old daughter in 2017 [Ted Regencia/Al Jazeera]
> *Ramadan ban*
> Belkez, a 38-year-old Uighur who now lives in Istanbul, said Chinese authorities took her mother, father and husband to a re-education camp in April 2017.
> 
> She does not know the whereabouts of her three-year-old daughter, who was also taken by authorities.
> 
> Belkez, who was a former local government employee in Urumqi, and her five children left for Egypt in September 2016.
> 
> She was hoping her husband and youngest child would join them shortly after. Like Turkey, Egypt also offers visa on arrival for Chinese citizens.
> 
> But her husband and their infant daughter never got their passport. The last time she spoke to her husband was on April 1, 2017, just days before his detention.
> 
> "I never thought that it was the last time that we would speak to each other," Belkez told Al Jazeera, as she tried to hold back her tears.
> 
> Years of government repression, including the prohibition of the hijab and fasting during Ramadan, pushed her family to finally leave Xinjiang, she said.
> 
> Belkez and her five children stayed in Egypt for nine months, before deciding to move to Turkey.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has also been accused of carrying out political indoctrination on Muslim Uighurs [File: AP]
> Rebiya, a 43-year-old former resident of Urumqi, left with her two children, aged 12 and three years on January 28, 2017. Four months later, she expected that her husband would follow. But he was held at Urumqi's airport and later sent to prison.
> 
> She has not heard from her family since October 2017 and has since stopped trying to make any contact to avoid putting them into more trouble with the Chinese authorities.
> 
> Rebiya also recalled the riots in 2009, when she said she witnessed a Muslim Uighur couple and their four-year-old child being killed during a knife attack.
> 
> "The pain and anguish of families torn apart, with no knowledge of what's happened to their loved ones stands in stark contrast to Beijing's claims that Turkic Muslims are 'happy' and 'grateful,'" said Richardson of HRW.
> 
> *New life in Istanbul*
> WATCH: China imposes restrictions on Muslim Uighurs (2:44)
> Like Rebiya's husband, Tarim, the Uighur businessman, could have encountered the same fate at Urumqi's international airport, but he managed to slip out.
> 
> Tarim's hands started to fidget as he recalled to Al Jazeera those crucial minutes of his escape.
> 
> He shook his head repeatedly in disbelief.
> 
> Even after arriving in Astana for his connecting flight to Istanbul, Tarim was still fearful of being sent back to China.
> 
> The Kazakh government has been accused of deporting Uighurs to Xinjiang, according to the US-funded Radio Free Asia and the Uyghur Human Rights Project.
> 
> For Tarim, the hours spent in Astana during his layover were a torment.
> 
> "What if the Chinese authorities suddenly call Kazakhstan and ask that he be deported," he wondered nervously.
> 
> He arrived in Istanbul on April 11, 2017, to start a new life, joining his wife and children, who had already fled to Turkey earlier.
> 
> Tarim said he still fears for his safety, and that of his family members who are left behind, that's why he hesitated for a long time before talking about his experience.
> 
> "But the world has to know what the Chinese government is doing to the Uighurs. Even the dogs have more rights than the Uighurs in China."
> 
> SOURCE: AL JAZEERA NEWS
> 
> 
> There are tens of filmed documentaries on Al jazeera to view just go have a look at first hand testimony of inmates from the "re-education camps"
> 
> https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/f...-speak-china-persecution-180907125030717.html


I hope the government will kill these people, Or learn from the United States, they were sent to an island, Instead of upgrading them with taxpayers' money.

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## haidian

hiseen said:


> I hope the government will kill these people, Or learn from *the United States, they were sent to an island,* Instead of upgrading them with taxpayers' money.


I believe they call that a reserve or reservation or something like that..

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## kankan326

Cycle Macson said:


> Right!
> 
> But, how do we know you are telling the truth?
> 
> Historically commis were and still are not known for honesty and honor...


And it is well known that Muslims are good at making up religion persecution stories and pretending to be victims.

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## Flynn Swagmire

kankan326 said:


> And it is well known that Muslims are good at making up religion persecution stories and pretending to be victims.


Well known to the mongoloid peoples? We are OK with it...


----------



## kankan326

Cycle Macson said:


> Well known to the mongoloid peoples? We are OK with it...


No matter what race they are. Muslims all act in same way. Play cunning tricks with Non-Muslims to take advantage from them. Westners buy your tricks for whatever reasons. But we don't.

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## Jlaw

rott said:


> This is because China is doing something RIGHT.
> 
> Very predictable western media.


Western media is correct. They are going to re-education camp. Just like I said in another thread, "China need to put these guys in camps and make them learn Mandarin". Some low IQ Unmah fucker called me out for that.



hiseen said:


> I hope the government will kill these people, Or learn from the United States, they were sent to an island, Instead of upgrading them with taxpayers' money.


Not sure why Chinese think Islam is a religion of peace? In this case the west is correct in dealing harshly against them

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## hiseen

These pictures are added, trying to support his argument, But we saw Uighur policemen, and several pictures without credibility. Instead, it shows that the government is trying to make the local people's safe lives.

I didn't find the source in the first picture, but the degree of compression from pixels can be proved, It must have been stolen from the Internet.

*About Tibet, Xinjiang they have used countless such tricks, google already long ago is overrun~~~*

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## rott

Jlaw said:


> Western media is correct. They are going to re-education camp. Just like I said in another thread, "China need to put these guys in camps and make them learn Mandarin". Some low IQ Unmah fucker called me out for that.


Not sure if it's re-education camp or not. But if it's beneficial, count me in.

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## Yankee-stani

I am getting tired of these thread tbh and yawn


----------



## Flynn Swagmire

kankan326 said:


> No matter what race they are. Muslims all act in same way. Play cunning tricks with Non-Muslims to take advantage from them. Westners buy your tricks for whatever reasons. But we don't.


You are overestimating! We dont give flying fuk about you mongoloids in first place...


----------



## rambro

Cycle Macson said:


> You are overestimating! We dont give flying fuk about you mongoloids in first place...


Other countries around do give a F, look at the headlines. Pardon my language.

Be it compliment or demonize, it shows ppl is paying attention.

Not forgetting our saviour dotard, china china.........

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## KAMDEV

haidian said:


> Criminals , escaped or not, can always make up stories to tell other that they are not.



Protect rights of Muslims


----------



## Flynn Swagmire

rambro said:


> Other countries around do give a F, look at the headlines. Pardon my language.
> 
> Be it compliment or demonize, it shows ppl is paying attention.
> 
> Not forgetting our saviour dotard, china china.........


He he he, Hokey...

BTW, do you know "Minions" movie earned Billion plus dollar?



KAMDEV said:


> Protect rights of Muslims


Unfortunately, they only protect the rights of commi zombies!


----------



## rambro

Cycle Macson said:


> He he he, Hokey...
> 
> BTW, do you know "Minions" movie earned Billion plus dollar?


Likewise, we are all peons of someone or something higher.

brand me as false flagger just cause i got a different opinion? Feel free check where i come from

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## Globenim

KAMDEV said:


> Protect rights of Muslims


We could start with all those gang rapes and assaults on Muslims in India before worrying about unproven rumors perpetuated by evident criminals who openly support terrorists in Muslim countries to divide them and slow their development, to the demise of millions of Muslim civilians and are directly and indirectly responsible for hundredthousand murdered Muslims over recent years.

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## haidian

hiseen said:


> These pictures are added, trying to support his argument, But we saw Uighur policemen, and several pictures without credibility. Instead, it shows that the government is trying to make the local people's safe lives.
> 
> I didn't find the source in the first picture, but the degree of compression from pixels can be proved, It must have been stolen from the Internet.
> 
> *About Tibet, Xinjiang they have used countless such tricks, google already long ago is overrun~~~*


This photo show 3 Uighur police on duty, Does the western propaganda tries to say that Uighurs persecuting Uighurs?

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## Flynn Swagmire

rambro said:


> Likewise, we are all peons of someone or something higher.


Failed to catch what you meant...


rambro said:


> brand me as false flagger just cause i got a different opinion? Feel free check where i come from


Why should I care about your flag? On internet anyone can be anything...



haidian said:


> This photo show 3 Uighur police on duty, Does the western propaganda tries to say that Uighurs persecuting Uighurs?


LOL, just snap some Uighur policeman pics and scream everything is hokkey...

Classic commi propaganda technique...


----------



## haidian

Check the police patrolling the Xinjiang streets, they are all ethnic Uighurs and are so devoted to their job, they don't even have time to have a decent lunch while working. They are there to make sure no harm happens to the local people.







Cycle Macson said:


> LOL, just snap some Uighur policeman pics and scream everything is hokkey...
> 
> Classic commi propaganda technique...


The funny thing is the picture was snapped by that western anti China report and is supposed to be used against China.

Those police who died fighting radical terrorists in the last decade were mostly Uighurs. Separatist and terrorists are hated by most Uighurs in Xinjiang and they fought and died to maintain Xinjiang's peace and prosperity.









*RIP to our Uighur heros giving their lives fighting the separatists and terrorists.*

*That's what local Uighur farmers do when they learned some separatists and terrorists might be around their villages, mass man hunt.




*

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## Flynn Swagmire

haidian said:


> Those police who died fighting radical terrorists in the last decade were mostly Uighurs. Separatist and terrorists are hated by most Uighurs in Xinjiang and they fought and died to maintain Xinjiang's peace and prosperity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RIP to our Uighur heros giving their lives fighting the separatists and terrorists.*


Ah ha, they wasted their life for China. Commi zombies will think, speak and do bad things for them and their loved ones anyway!

This thread and other threads in this forum is a prime evidence to prove my point!

What a waste...


----------



## haidian

Separatists and terrorists have been wiped out in recent years in Xinjiang largely because the locals are very alert and report to the authorities anything they feel fishy. With the locals are all eyes and ears of the government, separatists just have nowhere to hide.



Cycle Macson said:


> Ah ha, they wasted their life for China. Commi zombies will think, speak and do bad things for them and their loved ones anyway!
> 
> This thread and other threads in this forum is a prime evidence to prove my point!
> 
> What a waste...


Xinjiang is peaceful and prosperous, nothing like your dirty poor poophole, so their lives are not wasted, they knew what they fought for.

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## Flynn Swagmire

haidian said:


> Xinjiang is peaceful and prosperous, nothing like your dirty poor poophole, so their lives are not wasted, they knew what they fought for.


You are talking with a British citizen Mr smashed nose...


----------



## haidian

Cycle Macson said:


> You are talking with a British citizen Mr smashed nose...


So another false flagger

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## Flynn Swagmire

haidian said:


> Xinjiang is peaceful and prosperous, nothing like your dirty poor poophole, so their lives are not wasted, they knew what they fought for.


They fought for commi zombies who will kill their loved ones too. Without proper evidence and trial. What a waste...



haidian said:


> So another false flagger


How? Never heard about British Bangladeshis and British Bangladeshi hybrids? LOL...


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## rott

haidian said:


> Separatists and terrorists have been wiped out in recent years in Xinjiang largely because the locals are very alert and report to the authorities anything they feel fishy. With the locals are all eyes and ears of the government, separatists just have nowhere to hide.
> 
> 
> Xinjiang is peaceful and prosperous, nothing like your dirty poor poophole, so their lives are not wasted, they knew what they fought for.


Why are you wasting your time on a terrorist supporter?

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## AMG_12

Cycle Macson said:


> They fought for commi zombies who will kill their loved ones too. Without proper evidence and trial. What a waste...
> 
> 
> How? Never heard about British Bangladeshis and British Bangladeshi hybrids? LOL...


I've Muslim friends from Xinjiang and Qinghai. They all call it bluff and pure western propaganda. Also an acquaintance of mine is in Xinjiang Medical University and he has never complained of anything as such. If you've a problem with China or Chinese people, please make a separate thread and BS as much as you please instead of derailing other threads.

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## Flynn Swagmire

rott said:


> Why are you wasting your time on a terrorist supporter?


Wow. Now a genocide supporting chinese commi zombie calling me terrorist supporter! Any proof to support your claim?



Game.Invade said:


> I've Muslim friends from Xinjiang and Qinghai. They all call it bluff and pure western propaganda. Also an acquaintance of mine is in Xinjiang Medical University and he has never complained of anything as such.


Are you a Pakistani? And, you did not noticed chinese ladybois hate towards muslims?


Game.Invade said:


> If you've a problem with China or Chinese people, please make a separate thread and BS as much as you please instead of derailing other threads.


I didn't started this nonsense...


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## oprih

Cycle Macson said:


> Failed to catch what you meant...
> 
> Why should I care about your flag? On internet anyone can be anything...
> 
> 
> LOL, just snap some Uighur policeman pics and scream everything is hokkey...
> 
> Classic commi propaganda technique...


But you're the one who posted that pic first dumbass. Maybe next time try to find a more polished anti-China article from your western masters so you won't look like an idiot here.

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## Jlaw

rott said:


> Why are you wasting your time on a terrorist supporter?


He's not a supporter but a terrorist in training.

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## Flynn Swagmire

oprih said:


> But you're the one who posted that pic first dumbass. Maybe next time try to find a more polished anti-China article from your western masters so you won't look like an idiot here.


I posted the pics? When?

Im half Englishman by birth!

And last time i checked, you chinamans were following us blindly. Just take a look at your Presidents dress code. LOL, who is the slave now?


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## oprih

Cycle Macson said:


> I posted the pics? When?
> 
> Im half Englishman by birth!
> 
> And last time i checked, you chinamans were following us blindly. Just take a look at your Presidents dress code. LOL, who is the slave now?


When you posted the articles that contains the picture? Btw stop derailing this thread with your nonsense post to get this locked, it won't happen.  We are not dumb here like you are.

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## Flynn Swagmire

oprih said:


> When you posted the articles that contains the picture? Btw stop derailing this thread with your nonsense post to get this locked, it won't happen.  We are not dumb here like you are.


I posted the article! When? I knew you dumb chinese has small eyes. But, never knew those are so weak...

Like minions...


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## Tiqiu

Cycle Macson said:


> I posted the pics? When?
> 
> Im half Englishman by birth!
> 
> And last time i checked, you chinamans were following us blindly. Just take a look at your Presidents dress code. LOL, who is the slave now?


I follow you Mr half. Or English basterd as you prefer lol

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## Flynn Swagmire

Tiqiu said:


> I follow you Mr half. Or English basterd as you prefer lol


Obviously you will follow me my little chinese minion. It is your destiny...

And, instead of vomiting bad words, I prefer you to work as hard as possible to ensure on time delivery of my preordered iPhone...


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## Tiqiu

Cycle Macson said:


> Obviously you will follow me my little chinese minion. It is your destiny...
> 
> And, instead of vomiting bad words, I prefer you to work as hard as possible to ensure on time delivery of my preordered iPhone...


You are lucky here. In real life you need to polish you skin first to talk to us

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## hiseen

You can go there any time, why do we go trolling here?

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## haidian

Jlaw said:


> He's not a supporter but a terrorist in training.


This guy should be banned, a real terrorist, all he does is to spreading hate here.

This guy repeatedly curses the Chinese government, Pakistan, religions and other PDF users to make China enemy of everyone, he is a very mentally unstable person and he is not even from China.

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## KAMDEV

haidian said:


> This photo show 3 Uighur police on duty, Does the western propaganda tries to say that Uighurs persecuting Uighurs?


it means everything is alright .



haidian said:


> Check the police patrolling the Xinjiang streets, they are all ethnic Uighurs and are so devoted to their job, they don't even have time to have a decent lunch while working. They are there to make sure no harm happens to the local people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The funny thing is the picture was snapped by that western anti China report and is supposed to be used against China.
> 
> Those police who died fighting radical terrorists in the last decade were mostly Uighurs. Separatist and terrorists are hated by most Uighurs in Xinjiang and they fought and died to maintain Xinjiang's peace and prosperity.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *RIP to our Uighur heros giving their lives fighting the separatists and terrorists.*
> 
> *That's what local Uighur farmers do when they learned some separatists and terrorists might be around their villages, mass man hunt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



Terrorist should be eliminated.



hiseen said:


> You can go there any time, why do we go trolling here?


Very nice place


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## rott

Tiqiu said:


> I follow you Mr half. Or English basterd as you prefer lol

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## KAMDEV

Well done chinese tunn ke rakho.


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## Sam.

KAMDEV said:


> Well done chinese tunn ke rakho.


Follow that in Pakistan too Pakistani guy.

-Best wishes from India


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## rott

KAMDEV said:


> Well done chinese tunn ke rakho.


Meaning?

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## Flynn Swagmire

Tiqiu said:


> You are lucky here. In real life you need to polish you skin first to talk to us


And, you need to polish your English little guy...



haidian said:


> This guy should be banned, a real terrorist, all he does is to spreading hate here.


LOL at you commi zombie. Who ever disagrees with you become terrorist on your little eyes! This is a prime example of you and your kinds intolerance.

Looking at the your level of your intolerance, Uighur prosecution must be true.


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## haidian

Cycle Macson said:


> And, you need to polish your English little guy...
> 
> 
> LOL at you commi zombie. Who ever disagrees with you become terrorist on your little eyes! This is a prime example of you and your kinds intolerance.
> 
> Looking at the your level of your intolerance, Uighur prosecution must be true.


Check his posts and come back to talk, if Chinese are all like him, you will be skinned alive as a Muslim, but luckily Chinese are not.

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## Flynn Swagmire

haidian said:


> Check his posts and come back to talk, if Chinese are all like him, you will be skinned alive as a Muslim, but luckily Chinese are not.


You are welcome to try little intolerant ladybois...

LOL, world can see what kind of intolerant you chinese are...


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## Zsari

*After Syria’s partition, will Xinjiang be destabilized?*
By CHRISTINA LIN SEPTEMBER 13, 2018 5:47 PM (UTC+8)

...

*Xinjiang at heart of Belt and Road Initiative*

Now it appears that a Western united front is emerging to confront China on human rights issues, using various tools of media coverage, economic sanctions, political activism by NGOs and think tanks to internationalize the Uyghur issue in Xinjiang. Similar to Israel’s dilemma over the internationalization of the Palestinian issue, China is bracing itself for a destabilization campaign and possible call for secession and partition of the province from Chinese sovereignty.

This perception is due to US backing of the Munich-based World Uyghur Congress, which aspires to revert Xinjiang to an independent East Turkistan. The first president of the Congress was Erkin Alptekin, son of Isa Alptekin, who headed the short-lived First East Turkestan Republic in Kashgar (November 12, 1933 to February 6, 1934), and also served as an advisor to the CIA while working at Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty in Munich.

The Alptekin family and Xinjiang secession enjoy strong support from Turkey’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who while being mayor of Istanbul in 1995, named a section of the Blue Mosque park after Isa Alptekin and built a memorial to commemorate Eastern Turkistani martyrs who lost their lives in the “struggle for independence.”

Given resource-rich Xinjiang is at the heart of the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), destabilizing the province would not only spoil the plan for Eurasian integration and development, but also weaken China’s economy by cutting off its overland energy supply from Central Asia and the Middle East, hamper its market access, and keep Beijing bogged down in an ethnoreligious conflict.

While this may augment current Washington’s trade war against the Middle Kingdom and weaken the Pentagon’s “peer competitor,” by deliberately stoking Chinese fears about Xinjiang destabilization and increasing radicalization, thereby egging Beijing to clamp down on Uyghurs, is in effect exploiting the ethnic Uyghur’s plight for narrow geopolitical agenda.

And as Yizhack Shichor perceived, “Vocal criticism of China related to its Uyghur persecution comes primarily, in fact almost entirely from outside the Middle East, from Western non-Muslim countries…[which] may have little do to with loving the Uyghurs, and much more to do with opposing China.”

http://www.atimes.com/after-syrias-partition-will-xinjiang-be-destabilized/

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## khansaheeb

Welcome to the new cold war.


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## Cybernetics

Hawkish types within the PLA had been warning about this many years ago as the next phase of war against China along with economic warfare. They had been preparing for years in anticipation of the West's move to destabilise Xinjiang part of a broader war against China and Russia.

A possible entry point would be to funnel radicalised fighters along with destabilisation of Central Asia and Afghanistan as a staging point. As the US shifts weight from counter-insurgency to great power competition, asymmetrical warfare against China would intensify. This is putting pressure on China's internal security to shift gears. The US "War on Terror" was to place pieces and open up logistics for the next phase of great power competition.

@54:47 Counter-terrorism units are arming themselves with MRAP type vehicles that is armed with twin 7.62mm mini-guns and a .50 caliber machine gun. A vehicle like this is not suited for combating a conventional army but an irregular force. It is likely that China is learning lessons from Russia's counter terrorism efforts. The vehicle is much more powerful than what domestic counter terrorism units had before, the point is to saturate firepower and enable rapid elimination of terror cells instead of putting special forces at higher risk. Previously contact had to be more personal.





It is likely that in the event of a regional destabilisation, China would mobilise along with a coalition of neighbouring nations. Counter-terror units and specialised equipment would be utilised rather than depending on the regular military.

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## empirefighter

Flynn Swagmire said:


> You are welcome to try little intolerant ladybois...
> 
> LOL, world can see what kind of intolerant you chinese are...


world？As one of the big 5 countries, we China, not you , represent the world. Again,the whole world know: we can get along with the Islam but we doonot like the Islam. No matter what religion including Buddism, anyone dare to changllege the government has to be executed. By the way,No Chinese ask or care your opnion, your curse is meaningless to us. We also understand you can do nothing except the mouthwar. The fuuny thing is you said your iphone, lol , I am sure you never see a real iphone since you come from the poorest country of the whole world.

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## HannibalBarca

Cybernetics said:


> Hawkish types within the PLA had been warning about this many years ago as the next phase of war against China along with economic warfare. They had been preparing for years in anticipation of the West's move to destabilise Xinjiang part of a broader war against China and Russia.
> 
> A possible entry point would be to funnel radicalised fighters along with destabilisation of Central Asia and Afghanistan as a staging point. As the US shifts weight from counter-insurgency to great power competition, asymmetrical warfare against China would intensify. This is putting pressure on China's internal security to shift gears. The US "War on Terror" was to place pieces and open up logistics for the next phase of great power competition.
> 
> @54:47 Counter-terrorism units are arming themselves with MRAP type vehicles that is armed with twin 7.62mm mini-guns and a .50 caliber machine gun. A vehicle like this is not suited for combating a conventional army but an irregular force. It is likely that China is learning lessons from Russia's counter terrorism efforts. The vehicle is much more powerful than what domestic counter terrorism units had before, the point is to saturate firepower and enable rapid elimination of terror cells instead of putting special forces at higher risk. Previously contact had to be more personal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is likely that in the event of a regional destabilisation, China would mobilise along with a coalition of neighbouring nations. Counter-terror units and specialised equipment would be utilised rather than depending on the regular military.



China current/future action in the Uighur community could also be a double edge sword... Pushing to maintain a grip on a fairly Homogenous population in reaction to a "possible" Western interference...Could end up Fueling discontent... Therefore US grip on this matter will be limited, since CN is doing herself harm...

Many may argue that CN isn't pushing Uighurs to do X or Y against their will...But tbh it doesn't matter in the mind of a Youth... It's all about perception...

Increasing Uighur inclusion in CN society is the right thing to do... But pushing some of them whatever rightfully or wrongly to "adapt" dramatically to an ideology/way of life that they feel being imposed or too fast... could end up with a counter result...

The Uighur Culture is very Different from the rest of China... What was being done in Centuries in the old days... China is trying to do it in a few years...


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## rambro

They hv been trying for a long time but failed.

Foreign embedded agents terminated quickly.

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## dy1022

Day dreaming... Xinjiang is very safe now, things are getting better and better!

But China haters with IQ lower than 80 would like to hear this kind of sh!t!



































Flag captured!

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## Flynn Swagmire

empirefighter said:


> world？As one of the big 5 countries, we China, not you , represent the world. Again,the whole world know: we can get along with the Islam but we doonot like the Islam. No matter what religion including Buddism, anyone dare to changllege the government has to be executed. By the way,No Chinese ask or care your opnion, your curse is meaningless to us. We also understand you can do nothing except the mouthwar. The fuuny thing is you said your iphone, lol , I am sure you never see a real iphone since you come from the poorest country of the whole world.


Typical chinese commi zombie nonsense answer...

Read other replies before you quote! Twit...

And, I came from one of the top 5 countries. Find it below:


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## Yingluck

China has every single right to what what she wants to her religion, be it Islam, Christianity or Buddhism - even to the extreme of banning Islam or calling Islam enemy of state.

In the past, China has manhandled every single guru, or cult or religion that challenged the state -- be it Buddhism, Islam, white lotus religion, yellow cloth....etc.

Obviously, Islam is being used by CIA and west, the denigrate, and even destabilized China. So why should walk into CIA trap?

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## Jlaw

Yingluck said:


> China has every single right to what what she wants to her religion, be it Islam, Christianity or Buddhism - even to the extreme of banning Islam or calling Islam enemy of state.
> 
> In the past, China has manhandled every single guru, or cult or religion that challenged the state -- be it Buddhism, Islam, white lotus religion, yellow cloth....etc.
> 
> Obviously, Islam is being used by CIA and west, the denigrate, and even destabilized China. So why should walk into CIA trap?


Muslim kill more Muslim than any other people. Rohingya in crisis and no Muslim countries give a ****. The retarded ganga Muslims are strong in PDF.

They come online and bitch but can't do shit about anything reality. Weak with low IQ = useless .
US is right in how to deal with them.

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## haidian



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## Yingluck

Unfortunately everything China does under the sun is evil, including building free house for poor.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/06/27/china-end-involuntary-rehousing-relocation-tibetans

The Chinese government is subjecting millions of Tibetans to a policy of mass rehousing and relocation that radically changes their way of life, and about which they have no say, Human Rights Watch said in a new report published today.

“The fiction that Tibetans enjoy any kind of autonomy under Chinese rule is laid bare by mass rehousing and relocation policies in which they have no say,” Richardson said. “Forging ahead with mass relocation and rehousing programs in a broadly repressive environment will only fuel tensions and widen the rift between Tibetans and the Chinese state.”

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## oprih

Oh no, China is harassing the muslims by giving them free homes.

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## haidian

I know why they look so happy, it seems they live in a better house than me in Beijing.



oprih said:


> Oh no, China is harassing the muslims by giving them free homes.


No, in the west they call those residential complex " camps". They can even pinpoint them on the satelite photos.

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## Yingluck

Chinese, not just China but Chinese everywhere (in Singapore) is the only race that practice discrimination against Chinese themselves in favor of minorities.

Xinjiang has 15 years free education and lots of assistance for college.

Han Chinese province never get this.


http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1076203.shtml

Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, in Northwest China, will offer free high school education to all students in the region starting in December benefiting nearly 860,000 students, education regulators announced.

The move will provide every student in Xinjiang with 15 years of free education, covering three years of preschool, nine years of primary and middle school education and three years of high school or vocational training.

Tuition fees will be waived for students who will also receive free accommodation and textbooks. Subsidies will be provided to students from low-income families, according to the Xinjiang Daily on Monday.

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## qwerrty

Yingluck said:


> Unfortunately everything China does under the sun is evil, including building free house for poor.
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/06/27/china-end-involuntary-rehousing-relocation-tibetans
> 
> The Chinese government is subjecting millions of Tibetans to a policy of mass rehousing and relocation that radically changes their way of life, and about which they have no say, Human Rights Watch said in a new report published today.
> 
> “The fiction that Tibetans enjoy any kind of autonomy under Chinese rule is laid bare by mass rehousing and relocation policies in which they have no say,” Richardson said. “Forging ahead with mass relocation and rehousing programs in a broadly repressive environment will only fuel tensions and widen the rift between Tibetans and the Chinese state.”


it's against human rights. tibetans prefer to ride their donkeys to get water from dirty river and poop anywhere they want

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## Roybot

This is for the Han Chinese who are being settled in Xinjiang. Uyghurs will soon become tiny minority in their homeland.

Good job China. Countries facing Muslim separatism have a lot to learn from the Chinese.

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## Yingluck

Roybot said:


> This is for the Han Chinese who are being settled in Xinjiang. Uyghurs will soon become tiny minority in their homeland.
> 
> Good job China. Countries facing Muslim separatism have a lot to learn from the Chinese.



India has a dalit brahmin problem for 3000 years since aryan invasion. USA still has a perpetual black underclass.

China has 56 races, and all except Uighur and Tibetan are happy. China solution to minorities problem are best in whole world. Not withstand Han themselves are amalgam of various races, speaking mutually unintelligible lect, unified only by Confucian ethnic.

Name me who else can achieve that?

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## haidian

*哺育工程
*

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## haidian

Roybot said:


> This is for the Han Chinese who are being settled in Xinjiang.


Do people in the photos look Han Chinese? Most Han Chinese live in the cities,not rural Xinjiang, Han traditionally are not nomadic people and hersmen living in the deserts and mountains, go and educate yourself before spewing BS.

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## hiseen

In Western opinion, Everything China has done is wrong. I hope they will pay attention to the unfair treatment of the Han people by the Chinese government.....................If they really care about *"human rights",*

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## seesonic

Let me know when the India government decides to build some proper home for its muslim minorities.

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## haidian

*Guangdong police trains Xinjiang officers in Guangdong*

The two provinces are thousands of miles apart, train together

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## Yingluck

seesonic said:


> Let me know when the India government decides to build some proper home for its muslim minorities.



They should build for their own Hindu dalits first.

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## TaiShang

China is a country that aims for perfect egalitarianism. This is obviously an ideological utopia, but, what makes socialism/Marxism an unbeatable path is its historicism. 

Of course, China had socialist aspects well before socialism was invented, but, in modern times, names/brands are important - even for ideologies.

US-Western neo-fascism is another ideological brand. It usually sprangs from fundamentalist capitalism crises. They seem to be right in the middle of a transition from capitalism to neofascism with heavy militarism. 

The US-Western neo-fascist media assault on China over the few weeks on Xinjiang province is just a reflection of it. 

Indians and as such are mere little jumping people with tiny voices. Without Western neo-fascist news, their voices are unheardable.

So, ignore Indians, and concentrate on the US neo-fascist media information war.

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## Yingluck

TaiShang said:


> China is a country that aims for perfect egalitarianism. This is obviously an ideological utopia, but, what makes socialism/Marxism an unbeatable path is its historicism.
> 
> Of course, China had socialist aspects well before socialism was invented, but, in modern times, names/brands are important - even for ideologies.
> 
> US-Western neo-fascism is another ideological brand. It usually sprangs from fundamentalist capitalism crises. They seem to be right in the middle of a transition from capitalism to neofascism with heavy militarism.
> 
> The US-Western neo-fascist media assault on China over the few weeks on Xinjiang province is just a reflection of it.
> 
> Indians and as such are mere little jumping people with tiny voices. Without Western neo-fascist news, their voices are unheardable.
> 
> So, ignore Indians, and concentrate on the US neo-fascist media information war.



So far socialism can only work on China. China has good culture and good people. China wont allow junkie, Islamo-polygamist, black mass-fcuker to sit at home on dole, while accusing all the good people of discrimination. 

Socialism will work because in China, every society miscreant will be punished and good people rewarded.

In Europe especially Germany, the tax payer will pay while social garbage will breed like crazy. Eventually German will be land of Germs.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang’s outlook on Silk Road brings in industries, opportunities*

Source:Xinhua-Global Times Published: 2018/9/18 16:23:39








Workers assemble cars at a plant of GAC Motors in Urumqi, capital of Northwest China's Xinjiang Province on February 6. Photo: VCG

After two hours of hectic work in the morning, Guzalnur Samat adeptly switches off the machine by the assembly line and quickly walks into the canteen.

*"I am learning new techniques every day, and the job is perfect for me,"* said Guzalnur, a 27-year-old blue collar worker who has worked for four years at SAIC Volkswagen's factory in Urumqi, capital of Northwest China's Xinjiang Province.

She is one of 700 factory employees. *Opened in 2013, the factory was the first passenger vehicle production base to be established in Xinjiang.*

"If it weren't for this job, I would have gone back to my small hometown to teach Putonghua to ethnic minority groups, which would not have been half bad," she said. "But I would still have yearned for an opportunity like this."

Guzalnur, who is of the Uyghur ethnic group, said her income was much more competitive than the average pay in her hometown of Janbulak, a scenic spot known for the spectacular sight of wheat fields. And she recently bought a house in the city of Urumqi, with plans to settle down there.

"I also met the love of my life at the factory," Guzalnur said. "Everything now is on the right track."

*Auto industry taking shape*

"We came to Xinjiang to nurture and break into a booming market," said Fu Xuejun, director of SAIC Volkswagen's Xinjiang factory.

*The annual output of the factory has now reached 20,000 vehicles. *

The vehicles manufactured here are either sold locally or shipped to other provinces and regions in West China.

*Despite favorable government policies on taxes and land procurement, building a vehicle factory in China's westernmost region was not without difficulties and challenges.*

"The lack of supporting industries was our biggest challenge here," Fu said. "Long-distance transportation of machinery parts from the Yangtze River Delta inevitably eats up a large part of our profit margin."

The factory saw its first car come off the assembly line in 2013, when China put forward the Belt and Road (B&R) initiative for international cooperation and co-development. The proximity to countries along the Silk Road Economic Belt has brought Xinjiang a broader vision.

"We saw a new path through the initiative," Fu said. "This factory in Xinjiang will be our westward bridge on the Silk Road."

*The factory's export permit to Russia, Pakistan, Afghanistan and the five Central Asian countries -Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan - is expected to be issued later this year.*

Fu said the new market would likely boost the factory's manufacturing capacity. To further adapt to the new customer base, the factory has decided to put forward a new model of SUV next year.

Last year, another passenger vehicle company GAC Motors opened a factory in Urumqi, also hoping to tap into the growing market.

"The magnifying effect of the prospective demand along the Belt and Road [routes] is growing," said Liu Dianbin, senior technology manager of SAIC Volkswagen's Xinjiang factory. "It is only a matter of time before a fully-fledged vehicle industry takes shape in Xinjiang."

Liu Dianbin said he and other senior staff could have been transferred to the Shanghai headquarters after three years, but none of them intended to go back. "We know we are building something big here," he said.

*Regional center for industries*

Xinjiang's position as China's key passageway to Central and West Asia has been emphasized during the five years since the B&R initiative was proposed.

*The region is one of the three outlets for China-Europe freight trains, which just reached 10,000 since the first was launched in 2011. Up to 3,600 tons of cargo are handled every day in Urumqi, now one of the largest logistics hubs along the Silk Road Economic Belt.*

But Xinjiang is posed to be more than just a doorway to the West. Benefiting from its geographical location, the once remote border region is shaping into a regional center of industries.

"Some of the countries along the B&R routes still lack the infrastructure for electricity, industry and transportation," said Liu Qianjin, chief technology officer of ABB (China), whose business fields range from electrical equipment to automation technology. "We therefore highly value our company's development in and around Xinjiang, the core region of the Silk Road Economic Belt."

Liu said the company established its first service center in Xinjiang in 2015, looking for more partnerships with Chinese enterprises on overseas ventures.

"The five Central Asian countries are the largest market for Xinjiang's clothing industry," said Zhang Xi'an, vice chairman of the Chinese Chamber of Commerce for Imports and Exports of Textiles and Apparel.

In 2017, China's clothing exports to the five Central Asian countries reached $7.2 billion, and Xinjiang alone accounted for 80 percent of the total value. Among the countries and regions along the B&R routes, Eastern Europe is the second largest market for Xinjiang's clothing industry.

From 2014 to June this year, the number of clothing enterprises in Xinjiang increased by 2,200 with more than 540,000 people employed in the industry. Many clothing companies from East China have chosen Xinjiang as their new base.

"Xinjiang and the Central Asian countries are complementary in the clothing business," Zhang said. "We are looking at giant potential for industry development and commerce cooperation."

***

US neo-fascist media is good at hiding social and political fractures and fault lines in their own country, and deflecting the attention of the gullible audience to imaginary problems elsewhere.

Little noisy Indians are not significant, but the source of their jumpy behavior needs to be analyzed.

In a word, US neo-fascism needs to be encouraged, not criticized. 

@TANAHH , @haidian , @Cybernetics

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## haidian

*300,000* government earthquake resistant houses will be built in rural Xinjiang in 2018. 210,000 poor families will have them for free.
http://www.xinhuanet.com/2018-02/01/c_1122355478.htm


2011-2017年，累计建成农村安居房210万户 From 2011-2017, the government provided those houses for 2,100,000 rural families.

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## TheTruth

But but but, I was told 1000000000000000000000000 Uyghur are in death camps, why build new houses when so many are empty!??!

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## ashok mourya

Yingluck said:


> They should build for their own Hindu dalits first.


Chinese houses are peanuts against 20 million homes being given free by govt. Of India.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradhan_Mantri_Awas_Yojana


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## bolo

ashok mourya said:


> Chinese houses are peanuts against 20 million homes being given free by govt. Of India.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradhan_Mantri_Awas_Yojana



Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana (PMAY) is an initiative by Government of India in which affordable housing will be provided to the urban poor with a target of building 20 million affordable houses *by 31 March 2022.*[1][

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## ashok mourya

bolo said:


> Pradhan Mantri Awas Yojana (PMAY) is an initiative by Government of India in which affordable housing will be provided to the urban poor with a target of building 20 million affordable houses *by 31 March 2022.*[1][


Read...https://realty.economictimes.indiat...nearly-200pc-jump-in-last-four-years/63412683


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## Yingluck

ashok mourya said:


> Chinese houses are peanuts against 20 million homes being given free by govt. Of India.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradhan_Mantri_Awas_Yojana





ashok mourya said:


> Read...https://realty.economictimes.indiat...nearly-200pc-jump-in-last-four-years/63412683



China already went through land reform since Mao time. You guys are millennium behind.

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## haidian

ashok mourya said:


> Chinese houses are peanuts against 20 million homes being given free by govt. Of India.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pradhan_Mantri_Awas_Yojana


Do you know Xinjiang is just a sparsely populated province? China is peanuts, but still , what China can do the best is building and construction. Compare Indian cities and Chinese cities one can clearly see the difference. By the way, what Indian affordable houses look like?

In term of buidling and infrastructures, I don't think it's a wise idea for Indian coming here to laugh at China.

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## ashok mourya

haidian said:


> Do you know Xinjiang is just a sparsely populated province? China is peanuts, but still , what China can do the best is building and construction. Compare Indian cities and Chinese cities one can clearly see the difference. By the way, what Indian affordable houses look like?
> 
> In term of buidling and infrastructures, I don't think it's a wise idea for Indian coming here to laugh at China.


Read the official govt. Website with all geotagged images....https://iay.nic.in/netiay/home.aspx


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## haidian

Taken the whole population of Uighurs is around 10 million, even half of them were from poor famlies, this program means almost every family got such a house.

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## ashok mourya

Go watch Hong Kong batting very well against India in Asia cup ,in Dubai....


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## haidian

ashok mourya said:


> Read the official govt. Website with all geotagged images....https://iay.nic.in/netiay/home.aspx


Indians should first take care of those shanty towns in your major cities like Mumbai before help those living in the remote underdeveloped regions, talking is cheap, what China ia famous for is to fast get something done, not big talk.

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> Indians should first take care of those shanty towns in your major cities like Mumbai before help those living in the remote underdeveloped regions, talking is cheap, what China ia famous for is to fast get something done, not big talk.



Indians are little guys making big noises.

That's the summary of their miserable development. 

Even though they received decent infra from their British sahibs and in fact had a larger GDP in 1990 than China, they failed big time and their social ills are only further reinforced, not reformed.

Indians should be encouraged to believe that they are great as they are at this stage and the "world's largest democracy" hash tag is their trade mark -- and enough to keep them great as they are already great. 

Progress is the enemy of India.

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## atan651

Yes that's the way to do it - open up the region and develop its economy to cut down on religious extremism. Also heard on ChannelNewsAsia this morning, an analyst in HK was saying China is selling down US treasury so that it can use the money (instead of local govt issuing more debts) to develop western China. Pls, pls, pls just include the water diversion project - that's my wish!

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## TaiShang

TANAHH said:


> Yes that's the way to do it - open up the region and develop its economy to cut down on religious extremism. Also heard on ChannelNewsAsia this morning, an analyst in HK was saying China is selling down US treasury so that it can use the money (instead of local govt issuing more debts) to develop western China. Pls, pls, pls just include the water diversion project - that's my wish!





As far as I know, water diversion project is ongoing, but, aims at Eastern China. I am not sure Xinjiang Province are included in the plans (or they need one).

@AndrewJin should have much info on this.

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## haidian



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## oprih

Bad news for the anti-China brigade here in pdf.

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## qwerrty

this is human rights abuse. china is training muslims to shoot other peace-loving muslims


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## 313ghazi

Federal Minister for Religious Affairs and Interfaith Harmony Noorul Haq Qadri met Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Yao Xing on Wednesday to discuss bilateral relations and matters of mutual interest, chief among them the treatment of the Xinjiang Muslim community.

"*Pakistan's friendship with China is above and beyond any political agenda, the roots of which lie deep within the people," said Qadri.*

The federal minister remarked that the CPEC was a matter of national priority and expressed full confidence in it.

Moving onto more urgent matters, *Qadri spoke about the Muslims facing numerous restrictions in China's Xinjiang province and demanded that they be given relaxations.*

"The placement of restrictions increases the chances of an extremist viewpoint growing in reaction," the minister told the Chinese ambassador, asserting that concrete steps need to be taken to weed out such a mindset and promulgate interfaith harmony.

The two also discussed talks between religious scholars belonging to Xinjiang and Pakistan.

"The Chinese government is the bearer of Sufi and moderate thought and resolves to sort the differences between various religious groups," said the Chinese ambassador.

He invited Qadri for a visit to China which the federal minister accepted.

The Chinese ambassador also provided assurances to facilitate the visit of a Pakistani religious delegation to the Xinjiang province.

*"Exchange of viewpoints between religious scholars of both countries is vital for better interfaith relations," Xing remarked.*

He said that there were 20 million Muslims living in China who enjoyed complete freedom to practice their faith.

"Pakistan is an important representative of the Muslim world and we want to further strengthen Pak-China relations on an Islamic level," Xing said adding that they will take the Muslim community living in China into confidence for achieving the same.

*He expressed China's interest in working with Pakistan to develop an educational curriculum for the Muslim community.*

"With Pakistan's cooperation, China desires to work for the social development of the former Fata region *and Afghan migrants*," he added.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1433886/r...atment-of-xinjiang-muslims-with-chinese-envoy

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## 313ghazi

I am proud of the humanity shown by the PTI government. First the fought for Atif Mian, yesterday they looked out for refugees and today asked China about Uyghur Muslims. 

As an ally and friend of China it is our duty to stand by China and support them wherever we can. Western nations are trying thier best to drive a wedge between China and Muslim nations by suggesting China is abusing its Muslim citizens. 

The Pakistani government has taken a wise step in asking about this and by offering support to resolve any religious problems. 

Note how the focus was on religious matters, not political matters. Pakistan has never supported separatist movements in China and has always supported China in its fight against Uyghur origin terrorists. 

By openly discussing an internal matter with a Muslim ally China's security measures can be given greater credibility and not be maligned by the west as anti Islam.

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## khansaheeb

OMG, PTI have already started on the Hindjew agenda full speed ahead.

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## cloud4000

313ghazi said:


> I am proud of the humanity shown by the PTI government. First the fought for Atif Mian, yesterday they looked out for refugees and today asked China about Uyghur Muslims.
> 
> As an ally and friend of China it is our duty to stand by China and support them wherever we can. Western nations are trying thier best to drive a wedge between China and Muslim nations by suggesting China is abusing its Muslim citizens.
> 
> The Pakistani government has taken a wise step in asking about this and by offering support to resolve any religious problems.
> 
> Note how the focus was on religious matters, not political matters. Pakistan has never supported separatist movements in China and has always supported China in its fight against Uyghur origin terrorists.
> 
> By openly discussing an internal matter with a Muslim ally China's security measures can be given greater credibility and not be maligned by the west as anti Islam.



What can Pakistan do to China even if it wanted to? Nothing do with Islam but everything to do with preserving Pakistan's interests, which is primarily CPEC. China can do what it wants to its Muslim citizens, Pakistan will look the other way.

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## 313ghazi

cloud4000 said:


> What can Pakistan do to China even if it wanted to? Nothing do with Islam but everything to do with preserving Pakistan's interests, which is primarily CPEC. China can do what it wants to its Muslim citizens, Pakistan will look the other way.



That's not true. The Pakistani and Chinese relationship is a 2 way street. Of course China is a superpower and more often the benefactor in the relationship, but that doesn't mean Pakistan is limited.

We are time tested allies, we seek what is best for our ally. Do you think these sorts of conversations would be public if there was harm to our relationship, or a lack of benefit for both sides?


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## Valar.

Very wrong move by us.

How others rule their countries is none of our business. How we rule our country is none of any outsiders' business.

Our country, our rules. Their country, their rules.

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## Beast

Do not trust anything written by Dawn. This news agency has already taken over by Washington Post. They re working for ameeicam. They work for the benefit of Americans and not Pakistanis or Chinese.

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## 313ghazi

Valar. said:


> Very wrong move by us.
> 
> How others rule their countries is none of our business. How we rule our country is none of any outsiders' business.
> 
> Our country, our rules. Their country, their rules.



Think about this. You may have a mindset of nationalism and real politik but most of our population doesn't. 50% of our population can't even read or write. They are controlled by money, mullah and media.

This is true for many other Muslim countries too, especially those China is investing in.

China and Muslim nations have the same enemy. Those enemies want to exploit Islamic sentiment to drive a wedge between China and its Muslim allies through fake news. This is a grave danger for China's plans and ours. Projects like CPEC and other OBOR initiatives in Muslim countries could be sabotaged using terrorists who are brainwashed to hate China. 

By engaging publicly on the matter with a Muslim ally China displays openness and the fakenews can be challenged from a Muslim voice too. 

We stand at a critical time, our enemies will do anything to drive us apart so it is our duty to work closer than ever. Failure of OBOR will affect China's superpower status and will be a much bigger economic disaster for its Muslim allies like us.

This meeting was clearly a coordinated move, at a time the COAS is in China.

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## Kyle Sun

CN gov is free to do whatever we should to protect people in Xinjiang.
The terrorists and separatists in Xinjiang have killed so many innocent people. They don't care you are Han Chinese or Uighur Muslims. Just check out how many Uighur Muslims they have killed in 7.5 incident.

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## khansaheeb

cloud4000 said:


> What can Pakistan do to China even if it wanted to? Nothing do with Islam but everything to do with preserving Pakistan's interests, which is primarily CPEC. China can do what it wants to its Muslim citizens, Pakistan will look the other way.



Your concern should be what can Pakistan do to India


cloud4000 said:


> What can Pakistan do to China even if it wanted to? Nothing do with Islam but everything to do with preserving Pakistan's interests, which is primarily CPEC. China can do what it wants to its Muslim citizens, Pakistan will look the other way.


 Our concern is how brutally you treat the Kashmiri people. We know how the Chinese treat the Xinjiang Muslims :-






This is how the Indians treat the Kashmiri people:-

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

313ghazi said:


> I am proud of the humanity shown by the PTI government. First the fought for Atif Mian, yesterday they looked out for refugees and today asked China about Uyghur Muslims.
> 
> As an ally and friend of China it is our duty to stand by China and support them wherever we can. Western nations are trying thier best to drive a wedge between China and Muslim nations by suggesting China is abusing its Muslim citizens.
> 
> The Pakistani government has taken a wise step in asking about this and by offering support to resolve any religious problems.
> 
> Note how the focus was on religious matters, not political matters. Pakistan has never supported separatist movements in China and has always supported China in its fight against Uyghur origin terrorists.
> 
> By openly discussing an internal matter with a Muslim ally China's security measures can be given greater credibility and not be maligned by the west as anti Islam.



This is what I have been saying all along.

Our Chinese posters in PDF take this issue personally and act as if we don’t have a stake in Uyghurs’ lives. Of course, every Muslim must stand by every other Muslim.

Pakistan is an Islamic nation and China knew that from the beginning.

Good for China to ease the lives of Uyghurs and spoil US-EU-Indian-Israeli propaganda.

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## kankan326

I have an idea. Send them to Muslim countries. We would like to pay the countries who accept them. 10000 US dollars for each person.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

kankan326 said:


> I have an idea. Send them to Muslim countries. We would like to pay the countries who accept them. 10000 US dollars for each person.



Alhamdulilah, glad for Xi Jinping. Great leader. He knows how to improve relationships with Muslim nations.

PDF Chinese keyboard warriors RIP. China-Muslims dosti Zindabad.

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## maithil

Good Job IK. He has shown that Humanity transcends everything else.

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## Theparadox

What the hell is religious affair minister and why China listening to him?

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## Peaceful Civilian

We should avoid to interfere in China’s internal matter. It can hurt our interests in long term.

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## Maarkhoor

313ghazi said:


> Federal Minister for Religious Affairs and Interfaith Harmony Noorul Haq Qadri met Chinese Ambassador to Pakistan Yao Xing on Wednesday to discuss bilateral relations and matters of mutual interest, chief among them the treatment of the Xinjiang Muslim community.
> 
> "*Pakistan's friendship with China is above and beyond any political agenda, the roots of which lie deep within the people," said Qadri.*
> 
> The federal minister remarked that the CPEC was a matter of national priority and expressed full confidence in it.
> 
> Moving onto more urgent matters, *Qadri spoke about the Muslims facing numerous restrictions in China's Xinjiang province and demanded that they be given relaxations.*
> 
> "The placement of restrictions increases the chances of an extremist viewpoint growing in reaction," the minister told the Chinese ambassador, asserting that concrete steps need to be taken to weed out such a mindset and promulgate interfaith harmony.
> 
> The two also discussed talks between religious scholars belonging to Xinjiang and Pakistan.
> 
> "The Chinese government is the bearer of Sufi and moderate thought and resolves to sort the differences between various religious groups," said the Chinese ambassador.
> 
> He invited Qadri for a visit to China which the federal minister accepted.
> 
> The Chinese ambassador also provided assurances to facilitate the visit of a Pakistani religious delegation to the Xinjiang province.
> 
> *"Exchange of viewpoints between religious scholars of both countries is vital for better interfaith relations," Xing remarked.*
> 
> He said that there were 20 million Muslims living in China who enjoyed complete freedom to practice their faith.
> 
> "Pakistan is an important representative of the Muslim world and we want to further strengthen Pak-China relations on an Islamic level," Xing said adding that they will take the Muslim community living in China into confidence for achieving the same.
> 
> *He expressed China's interest in working with Pakistan to develop an educational curriculum for the Muslim community.*
> 
> "With Pakistan's cooperation, China desires to work for the social development of the former Fata region *and Afghan migrants*," he added.
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1433886/r...atment-of-xinjiang-muslims-with-chinese-envoy


We should stop meddling in Chinese internal affairs.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Maarkhoor said:


> We should stop meddling in Chinese internal affairs.


China is just fighting against those terrorists, they killed hundreds of innocent Chinese, and they created unrest in whole city. No country in the world can tolerate violence , extremism & terrorism.

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## Yaseen1

very good move

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## Wa Muhammada

Theparadox said:


> What the hell is religious affair minister and why China listening to him?



I think it’s a gr8 step and being a TLP supporter i’m proud that this govt had the guts to take this step. 

We are Muslims first and then we are Pakistanis... China is an ally but not over the repression of our Muslim brothers. I understand that at this juncture in time, China is our ally but who knows abt the future?


Even China believes that Alliances are temporary but interests are primary.

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## 313ghazi

Maarkhoor said:


> We should stop meddling in Chinese internal affairs.



Not everything that happens inside a country is an internal affair. We are not in isolation from each other. Things that happen in China impact us and things that happen in Pakistan impact China. 

When we had terrorists running up and down the country, China was rightfully concerned, as it may impact their security. Both Pakistan and China were concerned about ISIS in Afghanistan. 

The reality of the situation is there is a very significant Muslim population in the world who consider each and every Muslim as their own. Our population also has many such people. The enemies of China are busy painting China as a country which is attacking Muslims and Islam, so that they can use sentiment to use proxies to damage Chinese interests abroad. 

We have a HUGE investment in this. If CPEC projects are attacked be islamist militants, there will be a time where Chinese companies will stop investing. We are heavily invested in the success of that project. Our enemies would like nothing more than to see it fail. 

The Pakistani state has always been about real politik, we work with even our own enemies where it suits us (like America), we certainly wouldn't think twice about working with China because of it's religious matters. Unfortunately the state doesn't have proper control of it's people, or it's borders. This leaves us fertile to foreign agencies operating here and funding groups like Al Queda, PTM, ISIS, TTP, BLA etc. 

It is because of our own weakness we have to get involved in what is technically an "internal affair". We have to be seen to be looking out for our fellow Muslims, we have to give the Chinese claims of this all being fake, some credibility. If we don't the propaganda will take hold and we only need a few hundred people to be convinced enough for it to have a huge negative impact on CPEC. 

China has a larger global interest in this too. For years and years the only Chinese presence outside it's own borders was in nations it was culturally and ethnically similar too. Today that is not the case. OBOR has a lot of Muslim partners and the west has it's islamist tools like ISIS/Al Queda close to all Muslim countries. 

The west will use it's islamist proxies to destabilise OBOR in places like Pakistan, Djibouti, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Kenya, Indonesia etc. China understands this, now it is time for the people to start understanding this. The Muslim countries are politically and ideologically complex and confused. This has been exploited by the west to play them like puppets for decades. China now wants to have a presence in these nations, so they must be wary of western designs against them. The globalisation of the Uyghur issue, is one of the main prongs of attack.



Wa Muhammada said:


> I think it’s a gr8 step and being a TLP supporter i’m proud that this govt had the guts to take this step.
> 
> We are Muslims first and then we are Pakistanis... China is an ally but not over the repression of our Muslim brothers. I understand that at this juncture in time, China is our ally but who knows abt the future?
> 
> 
> Even China believes that Alliances are temporary but interests are primary.



Brother, I like you was also concerned about this issue. I was not sure wether China was indeed persecuting Muslims, or wether they were fighting an insurgency. The fact our government has gotten involved with help allay fears of the common man and build stronger relations between us. 

Personally, the fact that such thing has been made public, I expect it to be a joint decision by the governments of China and Pakistan. As i've mentioned in my other posts, I think the west is trying to paint the Uyghur issue as something it is not, in order to stir anti Chinese sentiment in the Muslim world and to destroy economic opportunities for multiple Muslim countries and for China by using that sentiment to deploy it's dogs like ISIS and TPP etc. 

I personally have family in China who have never had a problem living there as Muslims.

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## eldamar

Wa Muhammada said:


> I think it’s a gr8 step and being a TLP supporter i’m proud that this govt had the guts to take this step.
> 
> We are Muslims first and then we are Pakistanis... China is an ally but not over the repression of our Muslim brothers. I understand that at this juncture in time, China is our ally but who knows abt the future?
> 
> 
> Even China believes that Alliances are temporary but interests are primary.


Yes n china has no tolerance for people like u who place god above the nation.

Its not about islam, its sbout separatism. CIA devotes large amount of resources into tricking the whole world to believe china is eradicating islam

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## Wa Muhammada

eldarlmari said:


> Yes n china has no tolerance for people like u who place god above the nation.
> 
> Its not about islam, its sbout separatism. CIA devotes large amount of resources into tricking the whole world to believe china is eradicating islam



So are you denying that Muslims are being ill treated / being sent to re-education camps?


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## Flash_Ninja

eldarlmari said:


> Yes n china has no tolerance for people like u who place god above the nation.
> 
> Its not about islam, its sbout separatism. CIA devotes large amount of resources into tricking the whole world to believe china is eradicating islam



China needs to proactively showcase its other Muslim minorities, its the best way to counter propaganda instead of waiting and replying directly days after its left the news cycle.

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## Zarvan

Right move right now most Pakistanis are not aware of what happens to Muslims in China the moment they do it would be really difficult to continue with CPEC. So right move

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## Salahuddin Ayyubi

Valar. said:


> Very wrong move by us.
> 
> How others rule their countries is none of our business. How we rule our country is none of any outsiders' business.
> 
> Our country, our rules. Their country, their rules.


Then why does Pakistan not recognize Israel? Why did Pakistan protest the treatment of rohingyas by the Burmese military? Why does Pakistan constantly protest the treatment of Muslims in India? Muniafiqt is strong in you

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

Wa Muhammada said:


> So are you denying that Muslims are being ill treated / being sent to re-education camps?



Don’t worry about our resident Chinese anti-religion PDF community.

Chinese government is not as heartless as them.

The camps have been blown way out of proportion by the West and India to drive a wedge between Muslims and China.

These radical Chinese posters, some of whom are playing the Indian and Trump propaganda, are trying to confirm those false claims.

Trust Xi Jinping, he is a statesman, and trust in the Pakistani government to safeguard the best for Muslims worldwide.

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## Tauren Paladin

I want to give my input in this. China doesn't want Islamic terrorism to grow on its home soil which is a threat to national security, so they're tightening up security in Xinjiang. This is understandable to keep citizens safe. The re-education camps for Muslims are exaggerated by western media. Isn't it a coincidence that the US threatened to impose sanctions on China after this incident. 

China doesn't care if you're Islamic or Christianity. China only cares about friendly and close relationships.

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## American Pakistani

Very @$$h0lic move.


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## BATMAN

Who the fork is this minister Qadri?


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## Kyle Sun

Wa Muhammada said:


> So are you denying that Muslims are being ill treated / being sent to re-education camps?


We are taking care of Uighur terrorists and separatists in XJ.

1 China has many Muslims of different ethnics. *Uighur Muslims can't represent the whole Muslim communities in China. So stop putting the anti-Muslim label on us. *Keep that in your mind.

2 As long as you are a peaceful guy who respecting China law, CN gov won't go after you.
As soon as you want to commit some terrorist or separatist activities, CN gov will fk you
up without considering which damn religion or ethnic you are. We are the god damn communists, remember?

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## ZeEa5KPul

How interesting. You know, there was also another interesting meeting recently - this one between President Xi and General Bajwa:





Now, it's not unheard of for a president to meet with a defense minister/chief of staff of the armed forces, but it is somewhat unusual. It would be wise to pay attention to what was said in that meeting, especially given the role the Pakistani military has played in its country's politics. It would also be wise for some of our nosier Pakistani friends to remember that the China/Pakistan relationship is - childish rhetoric about soaring mountains and unfathomable oceans aside - truly deep and multifaceted, even in purely _realpolitik _terms.

If the new Pakistani prime minister feels he can interfere with China's core interests, he would do well to remember that China can engage in plenty of interference of its own. He should not wish to disrupt a relationship that has served both countries well, and continues to.

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## haidian

*China says booming tourism shows all's good in restive Xinjiang*
Reuters
17 hours ago

BEIJING (Reuters) - Booming tourism in China's far western Xinjiang shows that all is good there, China's Foreign Ministry said on Thursday, amid growing international concern for human rights in the heavily Muslim region.

Hundreds of people have been killed in Xinjiang in recent years in unrest between the Uighur minority which calls the region home and members of the ethnic Han Chinese majority. Reports of mass detentions and strict surveillance of Uighurs have sparked a growing international outcry.

U.N. human rights chief Michelle Bachelet has called on China to allow in monitors, while the United States is considering sanctions against Chinese officials and companies linked to allegations of rights abuses in Xinjiang.

China has rejected all accusations of mistreatment in Xinjiang, but also says it has to crack down on separatism and militancy.

Speaking at a daily news briefing in Beijing, Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said Xinjiang was stable, its economy developing well, its people living in harmony and enjoying religious freedom.

*In 2017, Xinjiang received more than 100 million domestic and overseas tourists, up a third on the previous year*, Geng said.

*For the first seven months of this year, it received more than 78 million visits, up almost 40 percent *on the same period a year earlier, he added.

"If Xinjiang were not safe, stable and harmonious, then there would not be so many Chinese and foreign tourists going to Xinjiang for sight-seeing," Geng said. "I think that this aspect proves Xinjiang's current good situation."

While Xinjiang has been keen to promote itself as a tourist destination, foreign reporters who visit tend to be kept under close surveillance by security forces.

Beijing says Xinjiang faces a serious threat from Islamist militants and separatists. Officials deny mistreating Muslims there, instead saying they are putting some people through "vocational" style courses to prevent militancy spreading.

https://www.businessinsider.com/r-c...lls-good-in-restive-xinjiang-2018-9?r=UK&IR=T

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## haidian

Facts speak louder than words, I plan to have a road trip to Xinjiang next summer.

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## Feng Leng

I visited Xinjiang not long ago. The place is pretty much on lockdown. Eradicating separatism requires some pretty tough measures. At the end of the day, though, victory is guaranteed. Improving railway and other infrastructure mean more Han Chinese settlors will arrive. Uighur children deserve the chance to be educated as a mainstream Chinese instead of a wannabe Saudi Wahabbi like the older generation. The Uighur assimilation will take no more than one or two decades and nothing can stop it.

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## Yankee-stani

The story wasnt big In Pakistani media only sort mention in English newspaper The News typical of international and Indian press twist of words and change of tone in their articles

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## gangsta_rap

Interesting...


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## khansaheeb

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Alhamdulilah, glad for Xi Jinping. Great leader. He knows how to improve relationships with Muslim nations.
> 
> PDF Chinese keyboard warriors RIP. China-Muslims dosti Zindabad.


These so called Chinese Keyboard warriors stirring up trouble between China-Pakistan are actually HindJews in disguise.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

khansaheeb said:


> These so called Chinese Keyboard warriors stirring up trouble between China-Pakistan are actually HindJews in disguise.



Yes, I realized this

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## Yankee-stani

Funny all those words in that Religious Minister gave was changed when Right Wing sites picked it up here in America.Notice the wording change and see how the International Media is nothing but full of propaganda and deceiption.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/pakistan-urges-china-to-ease-pressure-on-muslims-minority/

The Seattle Times article is from copy from some Pakistani paper

Now lets look at Right Wing Website Briebart.

https://www.breitbart.com/national-...lasts-chinas-human-rights-violations-muslims/

see first it was ease now the American press says Blasts

also that Zionist prick Blogger @Spandrell also wrote the same lines in his Twitter feed.


https://twitter.com/thespandrell


See this is why there is Info war going on here.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Yes, I realized this

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## oprih

Xinjiang, China is so much more developed and richer than india. Some indian cities like bombay and new delhi looks like a giant slum compared to the very clean and modern cities of Xinjiang.

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## Yankee-stani

I do want to visit XJ but sadly I am just a college student with very low savings at the moment and I only on person from there who lives here sigh


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## Place Of Space

Because they are muslim, so they become the most special people in China.


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## 313ghazi

@haidian here are my thoughts on the matter. Read the first post.


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## haidian

313ghazi said:


> @haidian here are my thoughts on the matter. Read the first post.


"The Chinese ambassador also provided assurances to facilitate the visit of a Pakistani religious delegation to the Xinjiang province."

That shows we have nothing to hide, why just come and see how people live in Xinjiang with their own eyes before commenting, most those western reporters have never set their foot in Xinjiang while churning out reports on Xinjiang in their New York and Washington offices.

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## 313ghazi

haidian said:


> "The Chinese ambassador also provided assurances to facilitate the visit of a Pakistani religious delegation to the Xinjiang province."
> 
> That shows we have nothing to hide, why just come and see how people live in Xinjiang with their own eyes before commenting, most those western reporters have never set their foot in Xinjiang while churning out reports on Xinjiang in their New York and Washington offices.



It is important we are seen to be on the same page against the western propaganda.

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## Imran Khan

pakistan should STFU and worry about own people . we are not contractor of even Muslim on earth . chines muslims are living better life then common paksitani

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## dy1022

boring...

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## Yankee-stani

Imran Khan said:


> pakistan should STFU and worry about own people . we are not contractor of even Muslim on earth . chines muslims are living better life then common paksitani



Exactly we have our own problems


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

haidian said:


> "The Chinese ambassador also provided assurances to facilitate the visit of a Pakistani religious delegation to the Xinjiang province."
> 
> That shows we have nothing to hide, why just come and see how people live in Xinjiang with their own eyes before commenting, most those western reporters have never set their foot in Xinjiang while churning out reports on Xinjiang in their New York and Washington offices.



This is what I have been advocating in the other thread as well. China can prove these claims false by opening up to genuine Pakistani government religious organizations. Pakistan is China's best asset to disprove this propaganda which is spreading like wildfire in Arab world, Africa, Indo-Malay region, Iran, and Turkish countries.

Pakistan has alot of religious clout over other Muslim countries.

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## Yankee-stani

It's not the first time that this occurred the whole propaganda war in XJ has been going on since the mid 1990s it's been in full gear since the 2009 Riots in Urumqi, Pakistan I recall after that did send is a delegates to see it and the Pakistanis said they were no issues

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

313ghazi said:


> It is important we are seen to be on the same page against the western propaganda.



Here in the US, which has one of the most influential Muslim scholarship around the world, criticism of China is steadily gaining ground by (I Suspect) CIA agents in guise of Islamic lecturers and scholars.

They are also attacking Pakistan and Pakistanis for our alleged silence. So the pressure from other Muslim nations, especially Arabs, is being felt in Pakistan as well.

We are doing everything we can to allay the feelings of the Muslim world which is bleeding from all directions, and tends to believe this is happening in China as well. We can't do it alone.

We need our Chinese friends to realize it is not an easy job, we are putting everything on the line for CPEC and expect China to make the PR battle easier by giving us ammunition to fight back.

This is why this is so important.

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## Yankee-stani

I know Turks only support the Uighurs on a ethnic ground not religious ground plenty of Secular Turks don't like China because of The Uighurs issues but let me turn this around on them Turkey for several decades had Kurds in similar region which is strategic area and they put heavy clampdown too



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> This is what I have been advocating in the other thread as well. China can prove these claims false by opening up to genuine Pakistani government religious organizations. Pakistan is China's best asset to disprove this propaganda which is spreading like wildfire in Arab world, Africa, Indo-Malay region, Iran, and Turkish countries.
> 
> Pakistan has alot of religious clout over other Muslim countries.





Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Here in the US, which has one of the most influential Muslim scholarship around the world, criticism of China is steadily gaining ground by (I Suspect) CIA agents in guise of Islamic lecturers and scholars.
> 
> They are also attacking Pakistan and Pakistanis for our alleged silence. So the pressure from other Muslim nations, especially Arabs, is being felt in Pakistan as well.
> 
> We are doing everything we can to allay the feelings of the Muslim world which is bleeding from all directions, and tends to believe this is happening in China as well. We can't do it alone.
> 
> We need our Chinese friends to realize it is not an easy job, we are putting everything on the line for CPEC and expect China to make the PR battle easier by giving us ammunition to fight back.
> 
> This is why this is so important.



Brother screw those Yankee Muslim groups like CAIR and MPAC I use to voulanter with those groups and their political campaigns they are a joke.They cheered when America bombed Syria and they support Saudi policies towards Yemen

No country in the 21st century will allow seprartism be it China,Turkey,Pakistan heck even Spain cracked down hard on Catalonia as well

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> I know Turks only support the Uighurs on a ethnic ground not religious ground plenty of Secular Turks don't like China because of The Uighurs issues but let me turn this around on them Turkey for several decades had Kurds in similar region which is strategic area and they put heavy clampdown too



Every single Kurd I met, whether from Iraq, Syria, or Turkey, has been pro-Turkish and especially great admirers of Erdogan.

We have to realize that until we get observers in Xinjiang from OIC, Turkey, KSA, Pakistan, Iran, etc., these lies will continue to run rampant.



OsmanAli98 said:


> Brother screw those Yankee Muslim groups like CAIR and MPAC I use to voulanter with those groups and their political campaigns they are a joke.They cheered when America bombed Syria and they support Saudi policies towards Yemen



That's because of Muslim Brotherhood. In the US, they are pro-KSA and led by people like Linda Sarsour.

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## cloud4000

Theparadox said:


> What the hell is religious affair minister and why China listening to him?



Where is Pakistan's Minister for Human Rights Shireen Mazari? After all, this is her department. I guess she's too busy lecturing Western governments about blasphemous cartoons.


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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Every single Kurd I met, whether from Iraq, Syria, or Turkey, has been pro-Turkish and especially great admirers of Erdogan.
> 
> We have to realize that until we get observers in Xinjiang from OIC, Turkey, KSA, Pakistan, Iran, etc., these lies will continue to run rampant.
> 
> 
> 
> That's because of Muslim Brotherhood. In the US, they are pro-KSA and led by people like Linda Sarsour.





Kurds and Uighur Diaspora is pretty similar they are both very small in community numbers in America and the West. They were not as known until the West used them for their strategic policies in their respective regions I think for us Diaspora Pakistanis it's best we meet people from those communities to get a better idea.I use to think Uighurs were hardcore seprartists who hated China until I met one restaurant manager here locally they guy was very pro PRC tho he thinks the relationship with the Han/Hui should be improved

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> Kurds and Uighur Diaspora is pretty similar they are both very small in community numbers in America and the West. They were not as known until the West used them for their strategic policies in their respective regions I think for us Diaspora Pakistanis it's best we meet people from those communities to get a better idea.I use to think Uighurs were hardcore seprartists who hated China until I met one restaurant manager here locally they guy was very pro PRC tho he thinks the relationship with the Han/Hui should be improved



I met many nice Uyghur people on my trips to Raiwind. They are some of the sweetest and kind people on Earth. Many of them were learning Quran and Islamic sciences, and on the side running religious stalls selling topiyan, kuff, pugriyan, shalwar kameez, rumaal, and books. Some of them even spoke Urdu and were essentially Pakistanized.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> I met many nice Uyghur people on my trips to Raiwind. They are some of the sweetest and kind people on Earth. Many of them were learning Quran and Islamic sciences, and on the side running religious stalls selling topiyan, kuff, pugriyan, shalwar kameez, rumaal, and books. Some of them even spoke Urdu and were essentially Pakistanized.


Oh I see

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## haidian

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> We are doing everything we can to allay the feelings of the Muslim world which is bleeding from all directions, and tends to believe this is happening in China as well. We can't do it alone.


Which Muslim countries exactly are you talking about? China has many Stan neigbors and none of them ever had troubles with China over Xinjiang, other leading Muslim countries? Saudis? Iran? We see Turkey sometimes says something, but that's it.

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## Yankee-stani

haidian said:


> Which Muslim countries exactly are you talking about? China has many Stan neigbors and none of them ever had troubles with China over Xinjiang, other leading Muslim countries? Saudis? Iran? We see Turkey sometimes says something, but that's it.



Pakistan does not have problems at all only issues is propaganda get to peoples minds very easily

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## haidian

No Muslim countries use Xinjiang against China, except forTurkey maybe, but not recently, the ones who always use Xinjiang, Tibet, Fa lungong against China are the ones who killed the most Muslims around the world, US and the west and maybe some Indians.

What an irony..

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## haidian

*Uighur member of the Chinese Communist Party working on poverty alleviation in rural Xinjiang




*

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## haidian

After so many years of intense Tibetan campaign against China, Dalai Lama finally claimed that Tibet wants to be with China, US and the west realized that Tibet is a lost cause and now they gave up on Tibet, they can never be able to incite another riot like the one in 2008, cause people are contect with their lives, for a replacement of Tibet, now they have their eyes on Xinjiang.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

haidian said:


> No Muslim countries use Xinjiang against China, except forTurkey maybe, but not recently, the ones who always use Xinjiang, Tibet, Fa lungong against China are the ones who killed the most Muslims around the world, US and the west and maybe some Indians.
> 
> What an irony..



Almost every single Arab country is using Uyghur issue against Pakistan. Bangladesh and India are using it. Some people in Turkey and Iran. The CARs are Turks and many have sympathies with or want Uyghurs to join with them.

Only Turkey is talking to China directly.

Don’t kill the messenger. I’m telling you the facts.

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## haidian

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Almost every single Arab country is using Uyghur issue against* Pakistan.*


You mean China? We didn't hear any. Believe me , Arabs have their hands full, No one uses it against China besides Turkey and the west.

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## haidian

Xinjiang's booming tourist industry

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## 帅的一匹

this is not good, Pakistan shall not interfere with China internal affairs.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Here in the US, which has one of the most influential Muslim scholarship around the world, criticism of China is steadily gaining ground by (I Suspect) CIA agents in guise of Islamic lecturers and scholars.
> 
> They are also attacking Pakistan and Pakistanis for our alleged silence. So the pressure from other Muslim nations, especially Arabs, is being felt in Pakistan as well.
> 
> We are doing everything we can to allay the feelings of the Muslim world which is bleeding from all directions, and tends to believe this is happening in China as well. We can't do it alone.
> 
> We need our Chinese friends to realize it is not an easy job, we are putting everything on the line for CPEC and expect China to make the PR battle easier by giving us ammunition to fight back.
> 
> This is why this is so important.


i dont care what you feel, stay away from Xingjiang.

Xingjiang stability is the core interest of China, we will do it in our ways. just like other countries cant dictate Turkey what to do with Kurds and PKK.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Almost every single Arab country is using Uyghur issue against Pakistan. Bangladesh and India are using it. Some people in Turkey and Iran. The CARs are Turks and many have sympathies with or want Uyghurs to join with them.
> 
> Only Turkey is talking to China directly.
> 
> Don’t kill the messenger. I’m telling you the facts.


why not China give Xingjiang to Pakistan?

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## haidian

Xinjiang is well on track to become the most prosperous and developed region in central and west Asia, it will never turn into an ISIS n Taliban shiithole as the west wished. Xinjiang's future grows with China, we are striving for nothing but the best in the world.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

haidian said:


> You mean China? We didn't hear any. Believe me , Arabs have their hands full, No one uses it against China besides Turkey and the west.



Can’t say your response is a surprise.

It’s good for China’s government to know about the lies perpetuated against it, from where they are coming from, and what measures to take to undo the propaganda.



wanglaokan said:


> this is not good, Pakistan shall not interfere with China internal affairs.
> 
> 
> i dont care what you feel, stay away from Xingjiang.
> 
> Xingjiang stability is the core interest of China, we will do it in our ways. just like other countries cant dictate Turkey what to do with Kurds and PKK.
> 
> 
> why not China give Xingjiang to Pakistan?



Every Muslim life is the responsibility of every other Muslim, it doesn’t matter whether African or Chinese.

I will tell you this, if this propaganda gets out of hand and spreads to Pakistan’s population which is deeply religious, then this can undo CPEC altogether. There are pseudo-religious and political groups waiting at th CIA and RAW command to strike, most dangerous of which is TLP.

It’s better to assuage the Muslim world now rather than do damage control afterwards.

By the way, we do have an ethnic and humanitarian stake as well. The people of Gilgit Baltistan are related by blood to Uyghurs and we have also taken many refugees from Xinjiang.

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## haidian

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> By the way, we do have an ethnic and humanitarian stake as well. The people of Gilgit Baltistan are related by blood to Uyghurs and we have also taken many refugees from Xinjiang.


I guess they are related to Tajiks, Tajiks are well known as the most patriotic people in China, they love China more than Han Chinese, the government never ever had any problems with Tajiks.





















They are called the guardians of the Chinese western frontier, even herdmen and their families are given rifles by the government as the volunteer border guards.

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## Zibago

wanglaokan said:


> this is not good, Pakistan shall not interfere with China internal affairs.
> 
> 
> i dont care what you feel, stay away from Xingjiang.
> 
> Xingjiang stability is the core interest of China, we will do it in our ways. just like other countries cant dictate Turkey what to do with Kurds and PKK.
> 
> 
> why not China give Xingjiang to Pakistan?


Do read the actual news this news has so many lies there were no orders or warning there were just usual discussions and invitation of tour by China to Pakistani delegates

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## haidian

Tajiks are really thankful for the government for providing a good life for them, free schooling, free food and housing, medicare, everyone is being taken good care, they never want to be independent or join another country, they are so happy with China, that's set them different from another Muslim group in Xinjiang.

I bet that the western media can not find even one Tajik claiming that China is persecuting them.

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## Smoke

I believe a great propaganda is being created to drive Pakistan & China apart. They have found a chink in our iron friendship and they have tried to exploit it. It is good that we were able to recover quickly and call out the fake article for what it is.. horse-shizer. 

I remember once seeing a documentary that covered the war between India & China, and after China easily defeated the Indians, they tended to their wounded, healed them up, and sent them back to India in good health. I do not think there is any ill intention on the Chinese part, just misunderstandings that are blown out of proportion.

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## 帅的一匹

haidian said:


> Tajiks are really thankful for the government for providing a good life for them, free schooling, free food and housing, medicare, everyone is being taken good care, they never want to be independent or join another country, they are so happy with China, that's set them different from another Muslim group in Xinjiang.
> 
> I bet that the western media can not find even one Tajik claiming that China is persecuting them.


as i said its not about religion, its about Uygher.



Smoke said:


> I believe a great propaganda is being created to drive Pakistan & China apart. They have found a chink in our iron friendship and they have tried to exploit it. It is good that we were able to recover quickly and call out the fake article for what it is.. horse-shizer.
> 
> I remember once seeing a documentary that covered the war between India & China, and after China easily defeated the Indians, they tended to their wounded, healed them up, and sent them back to India in good health. I do not think there is any ill intention on the Chinese part, just misunderstandings that are blown out of proportion.


China will deal with terrorists and seperatists with iron hand no matter what ethnic he/she is or whatever religion he /she believe in.



Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Can’t say your response is a surprise.
> 
> It’s good for China’s government to know about the lies perpetuated against it, from where they are coming from, and what measures to take to undo the propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Every Muslim life is the responsibility of every other Muslim, it doesn’t matter whether African or Chinese.
> 
> I will tell you this, if this propaganda gets out of hand and spreads to Pakistan’s population which is deeply religious, then this can undo CPEC altogether. There are pseudo-religious and political groups waiting at th CIA and RAW command to strike, most dangerous of which is TLP.
> 
> It’s better to assuage the Muslim world now rather than do damage control afterwards.
> 
> By the way, we do have an ethnic and humanitarian stake as well. The people of Gilgit Baltistan are related by blood to Uyghurs and we have also taken many refugees from Xinjiang.


you are an typical religious extremist.

A uygher terrorist will not roam at large just because he is a muslim.

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## haidian

wanglaokan said:


> as i said its not about religion, its about Uygher.
> 
> 
> China will deal with terrorists and seperatists with iron hand no matter what ethnic he/she is or whatever religion he /she believe in.
> 
> 
> A uygher terrorist will not roam at large just because he is a muslim.



Everyone can see that's an ethnic problem ,not a religion issue, no?

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## Gaber

Is there any restricted place if we are going to visit xinjiang?


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## haidian

Gaber said:


> Is there any restricted place if we are going to visit xinjiang?


Not I've heard of, Xinjiang is a very popular tourist destination in China, I have some friends just came back.

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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

haidian said:


> I guess they are related to Tajiks, Tajiks are well known as the most patriotic people



Tajiks are Persians. Uyghurs are Turks. Different race.

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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Tajiks are Persians. Uyghurs are Turks. Different race.



He is pointing out the other poster that there other groups of Muslims in China


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

wanglaokan said:


> you are an typical religious extremist.
> 
> A uygher terrorist will not roam at large just because he is a muslim.



Actually I believe in basic human rights (yes, even for Uyghurs, what a novel idea) so that makes you the anomaly.

This just proves that you guys are undermining your own government’s statements which claim Uyghurs are not treated any different than other Chinese.

What you are saying would not be popular in Pakistan or any Muslim country as it would just confirm the US and Indian propaganda.



OsmanAli98 said:


> He is pointing out the other poster that there other groups of Muslims in China



Yes, I get what he’s trying to say. Tajik good, Uyghur bad. Hui good, Uyghur bad.

We have heard these lines before from the West.

To Muslims, Uyghurs is equal to any other human being and we have a duty to make sure their rights are preserved.

Pakistan is the perfect one to deal with this issue, as we have good relations with Uyghurs, Turkey, and China.


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## Yankee-stani

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> Actually I believe in basic human rights (yes, even for Uyghurs, what a novel idea) so that makes you the anomaly.
> 
> This just proves that you guys are undermining your own government’s statements which claim Uyghurs are not treated any different than other Chinese.
> 
> What you are saying would not be popular in Pakistan or any Muslim country as it would just confirm the US and Indian propaganda.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I get what he’s trying to say. Tajik good, Uyghur bad. Hui good, Uyghur bad.
> 
> We have heard these lines before from the West.
> 
> To Muslims, Uyghurs is equal to any other human being and we have a duty to make sure their rights are preserved.
> 
> Pakistan is the perfect one to deal with this issue, as we have good relations with Uyghurs, Turkey, and China.




I still view it more of a socio economic issues that China still faces


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> I still view it more of a socio economic issues that China still faces



China’s government is saying the right thing and going about it in the right way.

Unfortunately Chinese posters on PDF are trying to undo China’s official stance and their PR.

Basically these are hyper nationalists who are claiming to be more Chinese than Xi Jinping and his government.

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## 帅的一匹

Pan-Islamic-Pakistan said:


> China’s government is saying the right thing and going about it in the right way.
> 
> Unfortunately Chinese posters on PDF are trying to undo China’s official stance and their PR.
> 
> Basically these are hyper nationalists who are claiming to be more Chinese than Xi Jinping and his government.


so you mean Chinese goverment should let those Uygher terrorists roam at large? because a non Islam country cant judge a Muslim even he or she is a criminal or terrorist? shall we send those Uygher terrorists to a religious court set up in Pakistan?

what you want from China?


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

wanglaokan said:


> so you mean Chinese goverment should let those Uygher terrorists roam at large? because a non Islam country cant judge a Muslim even he or she is a criminal or terrorist? shall we send those Uygher terrorists to a religious court set up in Pakistan?
> 
> what you want from China?



When did I say any of that?


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## 帅的一匹

i will rebut your post everytime i see it.


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## Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

wanglaokan said:


> i will rebut your post everytime i see it.



Rather you are trying to ascribe statements to me which I never said.

Continue writing whatever you want, I really don’t care.

I’m not here to tell you what to believe or write, so don’t tell me to either.


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## 帅的一匹

my point is very clear: innocent muslim in China should be fairly treated, but he or she shall obey the Consitutions of PRC. the problem is not Muslim, its Uygher seperatists and terrorosts. once you show any sympathy to a terrorist just because he or she is believing certain religion, then you are very very wrong.

just like Imran Khan give nationality to those refugees from Afgan, shit will happen in the future.

The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist.

there is bottom line out there, you shall never touch it.

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## tower9

Muslim countries who do business with China have a moral obligation to let Chinese leaders know behind the scenes that their actions are not only inhumane and barbaric, but further erode China's image. Chinese leaders are usually tone deaf and are emotionally stunted so they do not understand how unacceptable their authoritarian and ruthless nature is to the rest of the world.


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## tower9

Just because China sends millions more of domestic obnoxious tourists to watch Uighurs play up stereotypical tropes like dancing in their traditional costumes and pretend to be happy, does not mean there is authentic happiness.

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## haidian

tower9 said:


> Just because China sends millions more of domestic obnoxious tourists to watch Uighurs play up stereotypical tropes like dancing in their traditional costumes and pretend to be happy, does not mean there is authentic happiness.


Usually when you get paid handsomely after you dance, you will be happy. Money makes you happier than dancing itself.

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## onebyone

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1044515974374928384


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## tower9

haidian said:


> Usually when you get paid handsomely after you dance, you will be happy. Money makes you happier than dancing itself.



I know this is shocking to many people from China. But not everything revolves around money. China has no moral superiority in anything because it has an authoritarian system that shuts down any challengers and does not allow for honesty in its system, that is why they can only make their arguments about economic benefits. 

There are things more important than money, like dignity. The Uighurs are not being treated with dignity. The entire population are being punished for the actions of a few.

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## haidian

tower9 said:


> I know this is shocking to many people from China. But not everything revolves around money. China has no moral superiority in anything because it has an authoritarian system that shuts down any challengers and does not allow for honesty in its system, that is why they can only make their arguments about economic benefits.
> 
> There are things more important than money, like dignity. The Uighurs are not being treated with dignity. The entire population are being punished for the actions of a few.


Actually the country with the worst racial and ethnic discrimination is US, funny to see the devil calling others evil.

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## tower9

haidian said:


> Actually the country with the worst racial and ethnic discrimination is US, funny to see the devil calling others evil.



Not really. Are Muslims in the US being locked up in huge detention centers without any offenses? Are people prevented from speaking their minds? 

China does not have any racial diversity. It has some small minorities like the Uighurs and Tibetans who have tiny populations vs the huge Han population, 10 million vs 1.1 billion. The US has every race and ethnicity within its borders, it is relatively peaceful considering that.

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## Globenim

tower9 said:


> Are Muslims in the US being locked up in huge detention centers without any offenses? Are people prevented from speaking their minds?


Unlike China, yes. That's the joke.


tower9 said:


> it is relatively peaceful considering that.


Besides the several tenthousand gun deaths per year, armed police and metal detectors in U.S. schools and monthly large bloddy street clashes that is.

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## tower9

Globenim said:


> Unlike China, yes. That's the joke.
> 
> Besides the several tenthousand gun deaths per year, armed police and metal detectors in U.S. schools and monthly large bloddy street clashes that is.



The gun deaths are not mandated by the government, that's the difference. Americans love our guns and are just more violent people, period. 

The Chinese government is systematically oppressing and destroying a culture. There is no doubt about it. The Western media may be exaggerating it, but this is a fact. This is happening. The Uighurs are getting oppressed and massive numbers, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, are being locked up for no reason except for the slightest offenses to be sent to re-education camps. 

The Uighurs and Tibetans have no right to dissent. This is unlike the US, where angry minorities can take to the streets and protest after every injustice. They can even cuss and denounce the US government in the streets. In China, Uighurs and Tibetans cannot do that. And their numbers are tiny compared to the massive numbers of Han, so it is very oppressive overall.

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## Globenim

tower9 said:


> There is no doubt about it.


Doubt

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## Feng Leng

tower9 said:


> This is unlike the US, where angry minorities can take to the streets and protest after every injustice.


Was Occupy Wall Street allowed to protest injustice?

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## tower9

Feng Leng said:


> Was Occupy Wall Street allowed to protest injustice?



Yeah, they held their protests for quite a long time. Not just in NYC but throughout the country in smaller cities even. 

It's quite well known that Americans have the right to protest. China, not so much. 

Every time you see happy Uighurs and Tibetans in the Chinese media, they are forced to play make believe.


----------



## haidian

tower9 said:


> Yeah, they held their protests for quite a long time. Not just in NYC but throughout the country in smaller cities even.
> 
> It's quite well known that Americans have the right to protest. China, not so much.
> 
> Every time you see happy Uighurs and Tibetans in the Chinese media, they are forced to play make believe.


US Police is good at shooting blacks, disabled people in wheelchairs and beating women in a supermarket. In China we don't fear police but in US, everyone I talked to say they fear police when they see them even they did nothing wrong. US is a police state.

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## 925boy

tower9 said:


> Just because China sends millions more of domestic obnoxious tourists to watch Uighurs play up stereotypical tropes like dancing in their traditional costumes and pretend to be happy, does not mean there is authentic happiness.


Just like in North Korea.


----------



## Kyle Sun

tower9 said:


> Yeah, they held their protests for quite a long time. Not just in NYC but throughout the country in smaller cities even.
> 
> It's quite well known that Americans have the right to protest. China, not so much.
> 
> Every time you see happy Uighurs and Tibetans in the Chinese media, they are forced to play make believe.


Adopting the strict security measures in Xinjiang is absolutely necessary consideration of the extreme situation of terrorism and separatism.
If you or your family had been caught in the awkward middle of 7.5 incident, you would not call it "oppression". 
US protects its own people by bombing other sovereign states with the cost of tens of thousands innocent people.
CN protects its own people by adopting strict security measures on our own land. 
US has every right to criticize China except the human right/racial issue.
Save your freedom and human right bla bla bla shit to your self.



925boy said:


> Just like in North Korea.


Just like in Afg.

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## haidian

In US you are more likely to get shot on the street for nothing, mugged when going out at night and throwing behind bars. I guess that's part of so called freedom, freedom to shoot is one of them.

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## tower9

Kyle Sun said:


> Adopting the strict security measures in Xinjiang is absolutely necessary consideration of the extreme situation of terrorism and separatism.
> If you or your family had been caught in the awkward middle of 7.5 incident, you would not call it "oppression".
> US protects its own people by bombing other sovereign states with the cost of tens of thousands innocent people.
> CN protects its own people by adopting strict security measures on our own land.
> US has every right to criticize China except the human right/racial issue.
> Save your freedom and human right bla bla bla shit to your self.
> 
> 
> Just like in Afg.



You think it is right to punish an entire population of Uighurs because of the act of a few terrorists? The Uighurs are having their culture and religion completely suppressed and massive numbers in the hundreds of thousands, constantly detained. You think this is justified? 

BTW, most Hans who live in Xinjiang do not bother to learn their language or learn their culture. You don't think this doesn't breed resentment?

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## Kyle Sun

tower9 said:


> You think it is right to punish an entire population of Uighurs because of the act of a few terrorists? The Uighurs are having their culture and religion completely suppressed and massive numbers in the hundreds of thousands, constantly detained. You think this is justified?
> 
> BTW, most Hans who live in Xinjiang do not bother to learn their language or learn their culture. You don't think this doesn't breed resentment?


You think it is right to bomb an entire sovereign country of Muslim because of the act of a few terrorists? The Muslim in the middle east are having their home and city completely bombed and destructed and massive numbers in the hundreds of thousands, constantly become a refugee. You think this is justified?
BTW,most US army who invade Afg in middle east do not bother to learn theri language or learn their culture. You don't think this doesn't breed resentment?

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## Zibago

tower9 said:


> Not really. Are Muslims in the US being locked up in huge detention centers without any offenses? Are people prevented from speaking their minds?
> 
> China does not have any racial diversity. It has some small minorities like the Uighurs and Tibetans who have tiny populations vs the huge Han population, 10 million vs 1.1 billion. The US has every race and ethnicity within its borders, it is relatively peaceful considering that.


US cant play the morally superior card anymore after it locked up children in cages

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## haidian

Freedom to spray

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## tower9

Kyle Sun said:


> You think it is right to bomb an entire sovereign country of Muslim because of the act of a few terrorists? The Muslim in the middle east are having their home and city completely bombed and destructed and massive numbers in the hundreds of thousands, constantly become a refugee. You think this is justified?
> BTW,most US army who invade Afg in middle east do not bother to learn theri language or learn their culture. You don't think this doesn't breed resentment?



Who said I supported those wars? I'm against them. It doesn't change the fact that the Uighurs are oppressed. 

It's funny that many of the Chinese nationalists here, instead of facing the undeniable truth that the Uighurs are being oppressed, just point fingers at other countries. It doesn't change the reality that what China is doing in Xinjiang is very repressive and immoral.



haidian said:


> Freedom to spray



So some pepper spray and batons versus hundreds of thousands locked in re education camps and forced to denounce their own religion and culture. No comparison at all.


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## haidian

tower9 said:


> So some pepper spray and batons versus hundreds of thousands locked in re education camps and forced to denounce their own religion and culture. No comparison at all.



Are you joking? US has the world biggest inmate population, second to none. US police shot dead hundreds if not thousands people every year and you still have the shame to accuse others.

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## tower9

Zibago said:


> US cant play the morally superior card anymore after it locked up children in cages



I'm against locking up the children, but it doesn't change the fact that the Uighurs are oppressed. 

Also, you can't compare locking up illegals who voluntarily and illegally cross the border versus imprisoning hundreds of thousands of your own citizens who are being categorized as a threat just because of their ethnicity. 

China is just going to create more terrorists because of how cruel the government is treating the Uighurs.


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## haidian

tower9 said:


> I'm against locking up the children, but it doesn't change the fact that the Uighurs are oppressed.
> 
> Also, you can't compare locking up illegals who voluntarily and illegally cross the border versus imprisoning hundreds of thousands of your own citizens who are being categorized as a threat just because of their ethnicity.
> 
> China is just going to create more terrorists because of how cruel the government is treating the Uighurs.


Only US media locks up Uighur kids, they use heavily guarded Xinjiang kindergartens and elementary schools as proof photos to make their point, so laughable and they get ones like you to spread those rumors, but you did a bad job.

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## haidian

See the result of bilingual education. This Uighur girl goes back to her grandparents village to visit her grandparents, the girl speaks perfect Chinese, she speaks better Mandarin than me who was born and grew up in Beijing! While she also speaks Uighur when talking to her grandparents, her grandparent can not speak a word of Chinese. See the great change happened in recent generations.


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## Zibago

tower9 said:


> I'm against locking up the children, but it doesn't change the fact that the Uighurs are oppressed.
> 
> Also, you can't compare locking up illegals who voluntarily and illegally cross the border versus imprisoning hundreds of thousands of your own citizens who are being categorized as a threat just because of their ethnicity.
> 
> China is just going to create more terrorists because of how cruel the government is treating the Uighurs.


You are against it but its your state, s policy thousands went missing too but like always the international media downplays US crimes

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## bolo

Jlaw said:


> You mean like how Modi offered 5000 Muslim a free ticket to meet Allah in Gujarat?


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## tower9

Zibago said:


> You are against it but its your state, s policy thousands went missing too but like always the international media downplays US crimes



That is Trump's policy. Half of the country is against it, and it was a crisis in the media. Protests were organized against it, and many Americans hatefully raged against our government because of that policy. 

Now, where are the Han Chinese who are raging against the Chinese government on behalf of the Uighurs who are being oppressed? 

These comparisons are utterly retarded and not comparable at all, and everyone knows it. The Uighurs are allowed NO freedom of speech, no ability to dissent, and this breeds resentment and hatred, while Han Chinese do not empathize with them and completely support the Chinese government's repressive policies.


----------



## TaiShang

tower9 said:


> Now, where are the Han Chinese who are raging against the Chinese government on behalf of the Uighurs who are being oppressed?
> 
> These comparisons are utterly retarded and not comparable at all, and everyone knows it. The Uighurs are allowed NO freedom of speech, no ability to dissent, and this breeds resentment and hatred, while Han Chinese do not empathize with them and completely support the Chinese government's repressive policies.



Obviously, you are a false-flagged Indian. 

I would urge you to shift to Australian flags, because those are safest for Indians to hide. CN-US flags will make you spotted easily. 

@waz

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## tower9

TaiShang said:


> Obviously, you are a false-flagged Indian.
> 
> I would urge you to shift to Australian flags, because those are safest for Indians to hide. CN-US flags will make you spotted easily.
> 
> @waz



LMAO I am not Indian. That is ridiculous. 

Also, what about what I said was untrue? 

Honestly, I didn't want to come across as anti-China, which I am not. But I am against the immoral treatment of Uighurs and the Chinese nationalists here just cannot accept the truth, that they are being oppressed. Exactly what did I say is untrue? Nothing.


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## Max

Feng Leng said:


> I visited Xinjiang not long ago. The place is pretty much on lockdown. Eradicating separatism requires some pretty tough measures. At the end of the day, though, victory is guaranteed. Improving railway and other infrastructure mean more Han Chinese settlors will arrive. Uighur children deserve the chance to be educated as a mainstream Chinese instead of a wannabe Saudi Wahabbi like the older generation. The Uighur assimilation will take no more than one or two decades and nothing can stop it.



You should join ISIS, your ideology suits them well.

I am sure sane Chinese respect their minorities and their cultural identities.


----------



## haidian

tower9 said:


> That is Trump's policy. Half of the country is against it, and it was a crisis in the media. Protests were organized against it, and many Americans hatefully raged against our government because of that policy.
> 
> Now, where are the Han Chinese who are raging against the Chinese government on behalf of the Uighurs who are being oppressed?
> 
> These comparisons are utterly retarded and not comparable at all, and everyone knows it. The Uighurs are allowed NO freedom of speech, no ability to dissent, and this breeds resentment and hatred, while Han Chinese do not empathize with them and completely support the Chinese government's repressive policies.



Our country, our law, you better get your big nose out of our business, you rumor monger being revealed by us about Xinjiang and Tibet already, still have the shame to post here. We have our laws that's order and stability tops everything, you have your laws that people have the freedom to mass shoot others, your laws don't apply here in China and our laws don't apply in US.

US is a very unsafe country with prevalent crimes, the country has the highest number of inmate population, girls have to be escorted to their dorm at night even on campus. Thousands of people are shot dead every years and hundred of them killed by the police.

US is also the No.1 threat to the world peace based on the global poll, it brings death and fire around the globe. How US has been treating Muslims around the world is something needs no debate. Now the devil King points the finger at China, sheerly shameless, go back to get your house in order first.

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## TaiShang

tower9 said:


> LMAO I am not Indian. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Also, what about what I said was untrue?
> 
> Honestly, I didn't want to come across as anti-China, which I am not. But I am against the immoral treatment of Uighurs and the Chinese nationalists here just cannot accept the truth, that they are being oppressed. Exactly what did I say is untrue? Nothing.



You begun to whack and quack like an Indian.

It is usually like that. You start up good, then, the nature climbs in, and you begin to show the Indian debate and writing qualities.

Then you are spotted.

No worries, same happened to F-22 Raptor, he is hiding behind US flag. But, once he got carried out and begun to talk about Indian population dividend.

He quickly reverted and does not talk too much these days, bit just share stuff. Nonetheless, the damage is done.

You are a false-flagged Indian in my judgment, and actually you turned out pretty quick.

*So, I urge everyone to treat you as a false-flagged Indian. *

I guess @haidian still takes you seriously.

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## haidian

[QUHonestly, I didn't want to come across as anti-China, which I am not. .[/QUOTE]OTE="tower9, post: 10815178, member: 191582"]

*Honestly*, I didn't want to come across as anti-US, which I am not. .[/QUOTE]

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## tower9

TaiShang said:


> You begun to whack and quack like an Indian.
> 
> It is usually like that. You start up good, then, the nature climbs in, and you begin to show the Indian debate and writing qualities.
> 
> Then you are spotted.
> 
> No worries, same happened to F-22 Raptor, he is hiding behind US flag. But, once he got carried out and begun to talk about Indian population dividend.
> 
> He quickly reverted and does not talk too much these days, bit just share stuff. Nonetheless, the damage is done.
> 
> You are a false-flagged Indian in my judgment, and actually you turned out pretty quick.
> 
> *So, I urge everyone to treat you as a false-flagged Indian. *
> 
> I guess @haidian still takes you seriously.



Alright, if you want to think I'm an Indian, go ahead. The funny thing is that I have absolutely nothing to do with Indians, I don't really like dealing with them either to be honest, except for the ones who are very Americanized. 

I'm a Chinese American, believe it or not. Those who aren't raised in the PRC can see the oppressive policies being meted out in places like Xinjiang and Tibet for themselves, without the screen of PRC propaganda. 

Honestly, what about what I said isn't true? It just seems like a lot of people here keep trying to change the subject, but they can't deny that the Uighurs are truly being oppressed and their rights are being violated.


----------



## haidian

TaiShang said:


> You begun to whack and quack like an Indian.
> 
> It is usually like that. You start up good, then, the nature climbs in, and you begin to show the Indian debate and writing qualities.
> 
> Then you are spotted.
> 
> No worries, same happened to F-22 Raptor, he is hiding behind US flag. But, once he got carried out and begun to talk about Indian population dividend.
> 
> He quickly reverted and does not talk too much these days, bit just share stuff. Nonetheless, the damage is done.
> 
> You are a false-flagged Indian in my judgment, and actually you turned out pretty quick.
> 
> *So, I urge everyone to treat you as a false-flagged Indian. *
> 
> I guess @haidian still takes you seriously.


I m almost certain he is this *terry5* guy 
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...bby-to-free-wives-trapped-in-xinjiang.578903/

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## tower9

haidian said:


> I m almost certain he is this *terry5* guy
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...bby-to-free-wives-trapped-in-xinjiang.578903/



Who the hell is that? 

I've been perfectly honest. I have been a lurker, but I am new here. Whatever man, believe what you want bro.


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## Zibago

tower9 said:


> That is Trump's policy. Half of the country is against it, and it was a crisis in the media. Protests were organized against it, and many Americans hatefully raged against our government because of that policy.
> 
> Now, where are the Han Chinese who are raging against the Chinese government on behalf of the Uighurs who are being oppressed?
> 
> These comparisons are utterly retarded and not comparable at all, and everyone knows it. The Uighurs are allowed NO freedom of speech, no ability to dissent, and this breeds resentment and hatred, while Han Chinese do not empathize with them and completely support the Chinese government's repressive policies.


Trump represents America how is it is for you to disown crimes but when push comes to shove you threaten ICJ for punishing so called patriots who killed evil brown kids who were a threat to white christian Americans #AmericanValues

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

It is a pity that most people believe in the American and Turkish lies.
Even some Pakistanis believe, for example, that "the Chinese are abusing Muslims" lies.

I want to upload some ordinary people's lives in Xinjiang video, but the PDF says only bbc,cnn, and other Web site video can be loaded.

*Is this the freedom of speech western media are talking about???
More like the freedom that western media are always right！！！*
_I used to trust the Western media. Since the Snowden-Edward Prisim incident, I suddenly realized that the Western media is the most hypocritical media humanly possible._

_You may embed media from the following sites:_

_8tracks_
_ABC News_
_Amazon Product_
_audioBoom_
_Audiomack_
_Bandcamp_
_BBC News_
_Blab_
_Bleacher Report videos_
_Break_
_Brightcove_
_CBS News Video_
_CNBC_
_CNN_
_CNNMoney_
_CollegeHumor_
_Comedy Central_
_Coub_
_Dailymotion_
_Democracy Now!_
_dumpert_
_ESPN_
_Facebook_
_Flickr_
_FORA.tv_
_Fox News_
_Funny or Die_
_Gamespot_
_GameTrailers_
_Getty Images_
_Gfycat_
_Gifs.com_
_GitHub Gist (via custom iframe)_
_Global News_
_GoFundMe_
_Google Drive_
_Google Sheets_
_Google+_
_Healthguru_
_Hudl_
_Hulu_
_HumorTV_
_IGN_
_IMDb_
_Imgur_
_Indiegogo_
_Instagram_
_Internet Archive_
_İzlesene_
_JW Platform_
_Kickstarter_
_Kiss Video_
_Kontinental Hockey League (КХЛ)_
_Libsyn_
_LiveCap_
_********_
_Livestream_
_Mail.Ru_
_Medium_
_Metacafe_
_Mixcloud_
_MLB_
_MRCTV_
_MSNBC_
_National Geographic Channel_
_National Geographic Video_
_NBC News_
_NBC Sports_
_NHL Videos and Highlights_
_NPR_
_Oddshot_
_Pastebin_
_Pinterest_
_Plays.tv_
_Podbean_
_Prezi_
_Reddit threads and comments_
_Rutube_
_Scribd_
_SlideShare_
_SoundCloud_
_Sportsnet_
_Spotify_
_Steam store_
_Stitcher_
_Straw Poll_
_Streamable_
_Team Coco_
_TED Talks_
_The Atlantic Video_
_The Guardian_
_The New York Times Video_
_The Onion_
_The Wall Street Journal Online_
_TinyPic videos_
_TMZ_
_Trailer Addict_
_Tumblr_
_Twitch_
_Twitter_
_Ustream_
_VBOX7_
_Veoh_
_VEVO_
_Viagame_
_Video Detective_
_Videomega_
_vidme_
_Vimeo_
_Vine_
_VK_
_Vocaroo_
_Vox_
_Washington Post Video_
_WorldStarHipHop_
_Xbox DVR_
_XboxClips_
_Yahoo! Screen_
_Youku_
_YouTube_
_********** audio files_
So I understand why everyone believes in lies. Because there is no way to upload cctv,cgtv and other Chinese videos on the PDF.

Not even one site from China.
Haha,Do journalists living in the United States and the United Kingdom know more about the lives of people in Xinjiang than locals in Xinjiang?










Urumqi,China




Xinjiang ordinary people family

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## 帅的一匹

tower9 said:


> I know this is shocking to many people from China. But not everything revolves around money. China has no moral superiority in anything because it has an authoritarian system that shuts down any challengers and does not allow for honesty in its system, that is why they can only make their arguments about economic benefits.
> 
> There are things more important than money, like dignity. The Uighurs are not being treated with dignity. The entire population are being punished for the actions of a few.





tower9 said:


> The gun deaths are not mandated by the government, that's the difference. Americans love our guns and are just more violent people, period.
> 
> The Chinese government is systematically oppressing and destroying a culture. There is no doubt about it. The Western media may be exaggerating it, but this is a fact. This is happening. The Uighurs are getting oppressed and massive numbers, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, are being locked up for no reason except for the slightest offenses to be sent to re-education camps.
> 
> The Uighurs and Tibetans have no right to dissent. This is unlike the US, where angry minorities can take to the streets and protest after every injustice. They can even cuss and denounce the US government in the streets. In China, Uighurs and Tibetans cannot do that. And their numbers are tiny compared to the massive numbers of Han, so it is very oppressive overall.


take to the street my *** 







tower9 said:


> The gun deaths are not mandated by the government, that's the difference. Americans love our guns and are just more violent people, period.
> 
> The Chinese government is systematically oppressing and destroying a culture. There is no doubt about it. The Western media may be exaggerating it, but this is a fact. This is happening. The Uighurs are getting oppressed and massive numbers, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, are being locked up for no reason except for the slightest offenses to be sent to re-education camps.
> 
> The Uighurs and Tibetans have no right to dissent. This is unlike the US, where angry minorities can take to the streets and protest after every injustice. They can even cuss and denounce the US government in the streets. In China, Uighurs and Tibetans cannot do that. And their numbers are tiny compared to the massive numbers of Han, so it is very oppressive overall.


the only one that need to be sent to re education camp is you, and you gonna fund it yourself.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> I know this is shocking to many people from China. But not everything revolves around money. China has no moral superiority in anything because it has an authoritarian system that shuts down any challengers and does not allow for honesty in its system, that is why they can only make their arguments about economic benefits.
> 
> There are things more important than money, like dignity. The Uighurs are not being treated with dignity. The entire population are being punished for the actions of a few.


Tell this nonsense such as democracy and freedom to a lot of Africains where they have only less than 1 USD per day to live with!!!

US 60000 USD per capita system does not suit China's 9000 USD per capita system.
Thanks for your time,Americain banana!



tower9 said:


> The gun deaths are not mandated by the government, that's the difference. Americans love our guns and are just more violent people, period.
> 
> The Chinese government is systematically oppressing and destroying a culture. There is no doubt about it. The Western media may be exaggerating it, but this is a fact. This is happening. The Uighurs are getting oppressed and massive numbers, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, are being locked up for no reason except for the slightest offenses to be sent to re-education camps.
> 
> The Uighurs and Tibetans have no right to dissent. This is unlike the US, where angry minorities can take to the streets and protest after every injustice. They can even cuss and denounce the US government in the streets. In China, Uighurs and Tibetans cannot do that. And their numbers are tiny compared to the massive numbers of Han, so it is very oppressive overall.


You must be talking about US respect other country dignity,such as this below:































*US show us well how it respects other country's dignity!!!
Those people really have dignity granted by US in 21 century！*
We China know it well!

Iran will have this dignity when it surrender itself to US
and Chinese will have this dignity when it surrender itself to US as well!

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## haidian

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


>


You can kill them but shouldn't insult and humiliate them like that! Heartless animals..

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> Tell this nonsense such as democracy and freedom to a lot of Africains where they have only less than 1 USD per day to live with!!!
> 
> US 60000 USD per capita system does not suit China's 9000 USD per capita system.
> Thanks for your time,Americain banana!
> 
> 
> You must be talking about US respect other country dignity,such as this below:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *US show us well how it respects other country's dignity!!!
> Those people really have dignity granted by US in 21 century！*
> We China know it well!
> 
> Iran will have this dignity when it surrender itself to US
> and Chinese will have this dignity when it surrender itself to US as well!




What's your point? I was against the Iraq war. 

By pointing out how bad the US is, you do nothing to prove that the Uighurs are not being oppressed. What is happening in Xinjiang is cruel, immoral and unjust. Why do you keep dodging the issue? 

BTW, nice photos of Urumqi's skyline. It is a 75% Han Chinese city. What is your point? Uighurs right now live in a state of fear because the government is constantly stalking them, and putting a large number in re-education camps. They have spyware installed on their phones, and they are not allowed to practice their religion with freedom. Do you know that you have to be over 18 to even enter a mosque in Xinjiang? Do you know that the government sends officials to sleep over with Uighur families to make sure they are not terrorists? How fucking creepy is that?



Zibago said:


> Trump represents America how is it is for you to disown crimes but when push comes to shove you threaten ICJ for punishing so called patriots who killed evil brown kids who were a threat to white christian Americans #AmericanValues



By describing how bad the US is, how does this negate the evil China is doing in Xinjiang? 

Two unrelated issues.


----------



## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> What's your point? I was against the Iraq war.
> 
> By pointing out how bad the US is, you do nothing to prove that the Uighurs are not being oppressed. What is happening in Xinjiang is cruel, immoral and unjust. Why do you keep dodging the issue?
> 
> BTW, nice photos of Urumqi's skyline. It is a 75% Han Chinese city. What is your point? Uighurs right now live in a state of fear because the government is constantly stalking them, and putting a large number in re-education camps. They have spyware installed on their phones, and they are not allowed to practice their religion with freedom. Do you know that you have to be over 18 to even enter a mosque in Xinjiang? Do you know that the government sends officials to sleep over with Uighur families to make sure they are not terrorists? How fucking creepy is that?
> 
> 
> 
> By describing how bad the US is, how does this negate the evil China is doing in Xinjiang?
> 
> Two unrelated issues.


haha,a liar like CNN brainwashed you can give every things he need to!!!! 


what next?China gov take human organ from 新疆？
China rape minority girl? give us a break from your lies please!!!!



tower9 said:


> What's your point? I was against the Iraq war.
> 
> By pointing out how bad the US is, you do nothing to prove that the Uighurs are not being oppressed. What is happening in Xinjiang is cruel, immoral and unjust. Why do you keep dodging the issue?
> 
> BTW, nice photos of Urumqi's skyline. It is a 75% Han Chinese city. What is your point? Uighurs right now live in a state of fear because the government is constantly stalking them, and putting a large number in re-education camps. They have spyware installed on their phones, and they are not allowed to practice their religion with freedom. Do you know that you have to be over 18 to even enter a mosque in Xinjiang? Do you know that the government sends officials to sleep over with Uighur families to make sure they are not terrorists? How fucking creepy is that?
> 
> 
> 
> By describing how bad the US is, how does this negate the evil China is doing in Xinjiang?
> 
> Two unrelated issues.


your words are lies i CAN prove it coz i have parents in xinjiang,and you don't!

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> haha,a liar like CNN brainwashed you can give every things he need to!!!!
> 
> 
> what next?China gov take human organ from 新疆？
> China rape minority girl? give us a break from your lies please!!!!



I said this before, the Western media is full of exaggerations regarding China and even outright lies. But what is happening in Xinjiang is oppression. It is not made up. It has accelerated during Xi Jinping's regime. Stop denying the facts. 

I am against it as a matter of moral principle. What is happening is wrong.


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## bolo

TaiShang said:


> You begun to whack and quack like an Indian.
> 
> It is usually like that. You start up good, then, the nature climbs in, and you begin to show the Indian debate and writing qualities.
> 
> Then you are spotted.

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> haha,a liar like CNN brainwashed you can give every things he need to!!!!
> 
> 
> what next?China gov take human organ from 新疆？
> China rape minority girl? give us a break from your lies please!!!!
> 
> 
> your words are lies i CAN prove it coz i have parents in xinjiang,and you don't!



Han Chinese and Uighurs live different lives in Xinjiang. Get real. It's like asking White ranchers in South Dakota how the lives of Sioux Indians are. LOL


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> What's your point? I was against the Iraq war.
> 
> By pointing out how bad the US is, you do nothing to prove that the Uighurs are not being oppressed. What is happening in Xinjiang is cruel, immoral and unjust. Why do you keep dodging the issue?
> 
> BTW, nice photos of Urumqi's skyline. It is a 75% Han Chinese city. What is your point? Uighurs right now live in a state of fear because the government is constantly stalking them, and putting a large number in re-education camps. They have spyware installed on their phones, and they are not allowed to practice their religion with freedom. Do you know that you have to be over 18 to even enter a mosque in Xinjiang? Do you know that the government sends officials to sleep over with Uighur families to make sure they are not terrorists? How fucking creepy is that?
> 
> 
> 
> By describing how bad the US is, how does this negate the evil China is doing in Xinjiang?
> 
> Two unrelated issues.


use your brain please!



tower9 said:


> Han Chinese and Uighurs live different lives in Xinjiang. Get real. It's like asking White ranchers in South Dakota how the lives of Sioux Indians are. LOL


lol,you are a typical brainwashed man,we are done here! why not,we rape xinjiang girls daily and we kill them all daily



tower9 said:


> I said this before, the Western media is full of exaggerations regarding China and even outright lies. But what is happening in Xinjiang is oppression. It is not made up. It has accelerated during Xi Jinping's regime. Stop denying the facts.
> 
> I am against it as a matter of moral principle. What is happening is wrong.


IT is totally made up and evaluated by US 60000USD standard not local standard!



tower9 said:


> That is Trump's policy. Half of the country is against it, and it was a crisis in the media. Protests were organized against it, and many Americans hatefully raged against our government because of that policy.
> 
> Now, where are the Han Chinese who are raging against the Chinese government on behalf of the Uighurs who are being oppressed?
> 
> These comparisons are utterly retarded and not comparable at all, and everyone knows it. The Uighurs are allowed NO freedom of speech, no ability to dissent, and this breeds resentment and hatred, while Han Chinese do not empathize with them and completely support the Chinese government's repressive policies.


where isyour proof? i real want to know?!

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> use your brain please!
> 
> 
> lol,you are a typical brainwashed man,we are done here! why not,we rape xinjiang girls daily and we kill them all daily
> 
> 
> IT is totally made up and evaluated by US 60000USD standard not local standard!



Uighur girls are not being raped, I never said that, you're just projecting fake assertions on me. 

But Uighurs are being mass incarcerated without provocation and being forced to renounce their religion and culture. 

Tell me, is it not in fact true that Uighurs cannot even enter a mosque if they are under 18 years old?


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> Alright, if you want to think I'm an Indian, go ahead. The funny thing is that I have absolutely nothing to do with Indians, I don't really like dealing with them either to be honest, except for the ones who are very Americanized.
> 
> I'm a Chinese American, believe it or not. Those who aren't raised in the PRC can see the oppressive policies being meted out in places like Xinjiang and Tibet for themselves, without the screen of PRC propaganda.
> 
> Honestly, what about what I said isn't true? It just seems like a lot of people here keep trying to change the subject, but they can't deny that the Uighurs are truly being oppressed and their rights are being violated.


you have 0 %
with ChineseMay korean!



tower9 said:


> Uighur girls are not being raped, I never said that, you're just projecting fake assertions on me.
> 
> But Uighurs are being mass incarcerated without provocation and being forced to renounce their religion and culture.
> 
> Tell me, is it not in fact true that Uighurs cannot even enter a mosque if they are under 18 years old?


again where is your proofs?!

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> you have 0 %
> with ChineseMay korean!



LOL I'm Chinese. My parents are from Henan and Fujian actually. But I grew up in the US. 

Look, I am proud of being of Chinese descent. I want China to succeed. But at the same time, I find many of the Chinese government's policies to be both immoral and repressive. What they are doing to the Uighurs and Tibetans is wrong. It will only backfire by increasing resentment in the future. It is WRONG, period. 

The Chinese government is too obsessed with control. If they loosened up a little and allowed more freedoms, they would probably have less problems.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> LOL I'm Chinese. My parents are from Henan and Fujian actually. But I grew up in the US.
> 
> Look, I am proud of being of Chinese descent. I want China to succeed. But at the same time, I find many of the Chinese government's policies to be both immoral and repressive. What they are doing to the Uighurs and Tibetans is wrong. It will only backfire by increasing resentment in the future. It is WRONG, period.
> 
> The Chinese government is too obsessed with control. If they loosened up a little and allowed more freedoms, they would probably have less problems.


哈哈，你连祖宗都忘了 还敢说自己是中国人，中国人绝对不会这样污蔑自己的祖国！
you know 0

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> you have 0 %
> with ChineseMay korean!
> 
> 
> again where is your proofs?!



When I was in Xinjiang, the local Uighur guide told me that they cannot enter the mosque unless they are over 18. It is a well known rule.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

你是典型的被洗脑中国人，根本不明白什么叫做历史和复杂的现实！

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> 哈哈，你连祖宗都忘了 还敢说自己是中国人，中国人绝对不会这样污蔑自己的祖国！
> you know 0



This is the problem, you think you should support your country right or wrong. So when the Chinese government does something immoral, you still support it. That's why we can't have an honest discussion.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> When I was in Xinjiang, the local Uighur guide told me that they cannot enter the mosque unless they are over 18. It is a well known rule.


and US has no rule to protect non adult?

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> 你是典型的被洗脑中国人，根本不明白什么叫做历史和复杂的现实！



No, I understand the history and reality pretty well. I am just angry at what the Chinese government is doing to the Uighurs. 

Up to now, you haven't been able to refute any of what I am saying. You are just trying to shift the conversation.



Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> and US has no rule to protect non adult?



The US doesn't control religion. I think you know that.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> This is the problem, you think you should support your country right or wrong. So when the Chinese government does something immoral, you still support it. That's why we can't have an honest discussion.


你自己就不诚实，你知道你在香港说自己是三合会成员就是刑事犯罪，这个你知道吗？



tower9 said:


> No, I understand the history and reality pretty well. I am just angry at what the Chinese government is doing to the Uighurs.
> 
> Up to now, you haven't been able to refute any of what I am saying. You are just trying to shift the conversation.
> 
> 
> 
> The US doesn't control religion. I think you know that.


美国人不控制宗教，就不会天天攻击中东了 被洗脑的人没法进行讨论！！！ 
希望你在美国不会被说是眯眯眼！！！！

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> 你自己就不诚实，你知道你在香港说自己是三合会成员就是刑事犯罪，这个你知道吗？



Nope. I've been perfectly honest here. You are just trying to shift the conversation. 

I'm done here. You are just being over-emotional. Your government can do no wrong in your eyes, so there is no point. You are not Uighur, you do not experience things through their eyes, you don't know or care what is happening to them, that much is evident. You just care about the Chinese govt. always being right no matter what.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

美国这么好，请你永远不要回来！



tower9 said:


> Nope. I've been perfectly honest here. You are just trying to shift the conversation.
> 
> I'm done here. You are just being over-emotional. Your government can do no wrong in your eyes, so there is no point. You are not Uighur, you do not experience things through their eyes, you don't know or care what is happening to them, that much is evident. You just care about the Chinese govt. always being right no matter what.


你在新疆又呆了几天？ 我没说过中国没有问题！你把这句话塞到我嘴里！
禁止未成年人进入是为了保护他们，未成年人判断力不够成熟！
你应该问问沙特阿拉伯为什么她们的女人出门必须带头巾，为什么马来西亚婚前性交要受鞭刑！！！一个只知道指责的人，除了表现出自己的失败，没有什么意义！

you still has 0 proofs for thing you are talking about！！！！

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> 美国这么好，请你永远不要回来！
> 
> 
> 你在新疆又呆了几天？ 我没说过中国没有问题！你把这句话塞到我嘴里！
> 禁止未成年人进入是为了保护他们，未成年人判断力不够成熟！
> 你应该问问沙特阿拉伯为什么她们的女人出门必须带头巾，为什么马来西亚婚前性交要受鞭刑！！！一个只知道指责的人，除了表现出自己的失败，没有什么意义！



You bring up Saudi Arabia, but the Uighurs were never followed extreme traditions like the Saudis. They were always more liberal Muslims. 

Right now, the policies do not even give them room to breathe. Right now, the policies are geared towards making the Uighurs adopt Han culture. I think you know this and you like this. Other members here who have been more honest also remark on this, and they support it. 

So that's really what it boils down to. The Uighurs are being forced to relinquish their culture and basically become Han Chinese. This is how China is asserting control over Xinjiang. This is the reality. I think it is immoral to do this, especially with the tactics the government has used, but you are ok with it as long as the end result is that the Uighurs become Han. 

So let's end it at this, because this is basically what it boils down to. None of your emotional responses will negate this basic fact.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> You bring up Saudi Arabia, but the Uighurs were never followed extreme traditions like the Saudis. They were always more liberal Muslims.
> 
> Right now, the policies do not even give them room to breathe. Right now, the policies are geared towards making the Uighurs adopt Han culture. I think you know this and you like this. Other members here who have been more honest also remark on this, and they support it.
> 
> So that's really what it boils down to. The Uighurs are being forced to relinquish their culture and basically become Han Chinese. This is how China is asserting control over Xinjiang. This is the reality. I think it is immoral to do this, especially with the tactics the government has used, but you are ok with it as long as the end result is that the Uighurs become Han.
> 
> So let's end it at this, because this is basically what it boils down to. None of your emotional responses will negate this basic fact.


0proof you have but CNN news!!!!!



tower9 said:


> You bring up Saudi Arabia, but the Uighurs were never followed extreme traditions like the Saudis. They were always more liberal Muslims.
> 
> Right now, the policies do not even give them room to breathe. Right now, the policies are geared towards making the Uighurs adopt Han culture. I think you know this and you like this. Other members here who have been more honest also remark on this, and they support it.
> 
> So that's really what it boils down to. The Uighurs are being forced to relinquish their culture and basically become Han Chinese. This is how China is asserting control over Xinjiang. This is the reality. I think it is immoral to do this, especially with the tactics the government has used, but you are ok with it as long as the end result is that the Uighurs become Han.
> 
> So let's end it at this, because this is basically what it boils down to. None of your emotional responses will negate this basic fact.


FACTS made by ABC,BBC and CNN,why not,afterall,our country not yours anymore,why you care right?!!

60000 USD and 9000USD per capita，really not the same situation!!!!



tower9 said:


> You bring up Saudi Arabia, but the Uighurs were never followed extreme traditions like the Saudis. They were always more liberal Muslims.
> 
> Right now, the policies do not even give them room to breathe. Right now, the policies are geared towards making the Uighurs adopt Han culture. I think you know this and you like this. Other members here who have been more honest also remark on this, and they support it.
> 
> So that's really what it boils down to. The Uighurs are being forced to relinquish their culture and basically become Han Chinese. This is how China is asserting control over Xinjiang. This is the reality. I think it is immoral to do this, especially with the tactics the government has used, but you are ok with it as long as the end result is that the Uighurs become Han.
> 
> So let's end it at this, because this is basically what it boils down to. None of your emotional responses will negate this basic fact.


when you get more elder you will feel differently this is for sure!!

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> LOL I'm Chinese. My parents are from Henan and Fujian actually. But I grew up in the US.
> 
> Look, I am proud of being of Chinese descent. I want China to succeed. But at the same time, I find many of the Chinese government's policies to be both immoral and repressive. What they are doing to the Uighurs and Tibetans is wrong. It will only backfire by increasing resentment in the future. It is WRONG, period.
> 
> The Chinese government is too obsessed with control. If they loosened up a little and allowed more freedoms, they would probably have less problems.


I have only one final question for you!
why did US not abandon slavery system at the first place in 1776 but until 1865 if they cherish freedom so much?
tell me why?

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## tower9

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> I have only one final question for you!
> why did US not abandon slavery system at the first place in 1776 but until 1865 if they cherish freedom so much?
> tell me why?



Because the US obviously had a dark history with slavery, racism, etc. 

The US is not perfect, but it has improved significantly in the last half century. The last president was half-Black btw. 

This has nothing to do with the Uighurs being oppressed, which is happening right now. They are being detained in large numbers in camps, their religion is being destroyed, they are being spied on and harassed as a population. This is happening now as we speak and has gotten worse since Xi took office.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> Because the US obviously had a dark history with slavery, racism, etc.
> 
> The US is not perfect, but it has improved significantly in the last half century. The last president was half-Black btw.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Uighurs being oppressed, which is happening right now. They are being detained in large numbers in camps, their religion is being destroyed, they are being spied on and harassed as a population. This is happening now as we speak and has gotten worse since Xi took office.


still no proof at all!!!

not even a photo to support your camp!

for me,it is economy development level issues,

if China has 60000USD ,we could provide much more and much more.
like US, gay marriage is not recognized until recently and not in every state,at least show US you are open mind,you are too extreme!

please note,among 1.4billion Chinese,93%are han Chinese,and among 28millions population in xinjiang,only46%are weiwuer!
and you are really mislead by CNN believe it or not!
95% weiwuer in xinjiang are happy and satisfied with their life not as good as US life standard but is getting better and richer everyday!

i do not think US gov will care the well being of xinjiang people,you personnal,maybe,but use China low development level as excuses to contain China!



tower9 said:


> Because the US obviously had a dark history with slavery, racism, etc.
> 
> The US is not perfect, but it has improved significantly in the last half century. The last president was half-Black btw.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Uighurs being oppressed, which is happening right now. They are being detained in large numbers in camps, their religion is being destroyed, they are being spied on and harassed as a population. This is happening now as we speak and has gotten worse since Xi took office.


plus US create isis problem!!!!
and it spreads fastly!
China has reason to worry!

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## casual

tower9 said:


> You bring up Saudi Arabia, but the Uighurs were never followed extreme traditions like the Saudis. They were always more liberal Muslims.
> 
> Right now, the policies do not even give them room to breathe. Right now, the policies are geared towards making the Uighurs adopt Han culture. I think you know this and you like this. Other members here who have been more honest also remark on this, and they support it.
> 
> So that's really what it boils down to. The Uighurs are being forced to relinquish their culture and basically become Han Chinese. This is how China is asserting control over Xinjiang. This is the reality. I think it is immoral to do this, especially with the tactics the government has used, but you are ok with it as long as the end result is that the Uighurs become Han.
> 
> So let's end it at this, because this is basically what it boils down to. None of your emotional responses will negate this basic fact.


Yet there are Uighur extremists. ISIS recruited Uighurs and they make up a good portion of the foreign fighters for ISIS in Syria and Iraq. Also, aspects of the Islamic culture has no place in modern society such as the repression of women.

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## Kyle Sun

tower9 said:


> Who said I supported those wars? I'm against them. It doesn't change the fact that the Uighurs are oppressed.
> 
> It's funny that many of the Chinese nationalists here, instead of facing the undeniable truth that the Uighurs are being oppressed, just point fingers at other countries. It doesn't change the reality that what China is doing in Xinjiang is very repressive and immoral.


Yes, you didn't support those war but glorify the country that started it.

CN gov might be a god damn evil communism gov on this planet. And we second to none except the evil US cuz your gov is the top one efficient executioner.
I don't give a damn about how free you are or how good your human right is.
It doesn't change the fact that US is the No1 warmonger.

It's funny that many of the US nationalists here, instead of facing the undeniable truth that the US is the biggest slut who addicts in the policy of endless intervention in the internal affairs of others, just point fingers at other countries. It doesn't change the reality that what US is doing in the middle east is very repressive and immoral.

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## haidian

This tower9 guy had already lost all his credibility, he said in Lhasa we have the Chinese national flags posted every 10 meters and I showed him a recent Lhasa street video and he just disappeared from that topic.
He is just a deeply western brainwashed China hater, that's it. Since he attacks China's every aspect incessantly, maybe he is also not very mentally stable.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

haidian said:


> This tower9 guy had already lost all his credibility, he said in Lhasa we have the Chinese national flags posted every 10 meters and I showed him a recent Lhasa street video and he just disappeared from that topic.
> He is just a deeply western brainwashed China hater, that's it. Since he attacks China's every aspect incessantly, maybe he is also not very mentally stable.


i feel the same way!
tower9 guy is very mentally unstable.

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## dy1022

He is another fcuking Jb hungry come back, a viet boat refugee!

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## Ultima Thule

@haidian , @Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA bro Please ignore troll from @tower9 , i think he is not Chinese but pretending to be and Put @tower9 into your ignore list guys

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## tower9

LMAO so much butthurt. Ironic thing is, I'm probably the most honest guy in here. LOL


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## TaiShang

dy1022 said:


> He is another fcuking Jb hungry come back, a viet boat refugee!



A false flag Indian with lots of time, that's it. 

Soon, he will get tired of being someone else and the Indian nature will come out automatically. 

That happened a lot of times in the past and I am good at spotting these people at first line.

Their style and way of debating is so obvious. Flags can be hidden, but nature can't.

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## tower9

TaiShang said:


> A false flag Indian with lots of time, that's it.
> 
> Soon, he will get tired of being someone else and the Indian nature will come out automatically.
> 
> That happened a lot of times in the past and I am good at spotting these people at first line.
> 
> Their style and way of debating is so obvious. Flags can be hidden, but nature can't.



Obviously people here are paranoid AF. 

I'm not Indian, I'm Chinese American. Period. 

You might wonder why I'm in a Pakistani forum. I actually subscribed to a past Pakistani military forum, because they had lots of activity and information about China and Iran, two countries I'm interested in. Jesus mane.


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## haidian

Beijing subway companies trained many Xinjiang subway crews and provided a lot of technical support. But I have to say Urumqi's subway looks more modern and beautiful than Beijing's subway with better facilities and bigger cars.

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## Foxtrot Delta

Urumqi has subway now? It was not there 3 years ago when i visited.

Edit: i love beijing subways all lines just perfect.

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## haidian

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Urumqi has subway now? It was not there 3 years ago when i visited.
> 
> Edit: i love beijing subways all lines just perfect.


The newer the better, Urumqi's subway is very new so it can incorporate up to date technology and engineering experience, on the same token, New York subway looks like a slum comparing to much newer Beijing's subway.

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## Foxtrot Delta

haidian said:


> The newer the better, Urumqi's subway is very new so it can incorporate up to date technology and engineering experience, on the same token, New York subway looks like a slum comparing to much newer Beijing's subway.


i haven't been to newyork yet but i was on beijing subway in 2012














few pics from my cellphone camera beijing was a very cool city to visit. I want to go again.this was in october 2012

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## haidian

Foxtrot Delta said:


> i haven't been to newyork yet but i was on beijing subway in 2012
> 
> View attachment 501653
> View attachment 501656
> View attachment 501654
> View attachment 501655
> few pics from my cellphone camera beijing was a very cool city to visit. I want to go again.this was in october 2012


That's the Oldest line, line 2, bulit in the early 1970's. Now Beijing's subway length is many times longer than that in 2012 and even Line 2 was installed with station screen doors.

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## haidian

> The subway network has *22 lines*, 370 stations and *608.2 km* (377.9 mi) If not counting Xijiao Line, *599.4 km* (372.4 mi) of route length in operation, and is *the second longest subway system in the world after the Shanghai Metro*. The Beijing Subway opened in 1969 and is the oldest metro system in mainland China.


I just checked actually Beijing subway Line 2 opened in the late 60's last century.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

tower9 said:


> LMAO so much butthurt. Ironic thing is, I'm probably the most honest guy in here. LOL


most honest your assssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssshooooooooooooooooooooooole.

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## haidian

I love their Uighur style stations , they are very different from the style in Beijing.

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## dy1022

beautiful!

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## 艹艹艹



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## haidian

* Urumqi Subway Stations: Everything is written in Chinese, Uighur and English 3 languages*
*



*

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## haidian



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## Yankee-stani

haidian said:


> The newer the better, Urumqi's subway is very new so it can incorporate up to date technology and engineering experience, on the same token, New York subway looks like a slum comparing to much newer Beijing's subway.



I live in NYC yes our subway is a slum but its hard to maintain it because its 110 plus years plus our rolling stock dates back to the 1960s some of it now



Foxtrot Delta said:


> i haven't been to newyork yet but i was on beijing subway in 2012
> 
> View attachment 501653
> View attachment 501656
> View attachment 501654
> View attachment 501655
> few pics from my cellphone camera beijing was a very cool city to visit. I want to go again.this was in october 2012



Nice pics what did you do in China back then and tell me how was it

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## Globenim

tower9 said:


> Pepper spray and batons versus baseless claims invented in Washington and only repeated by a handfull of religious extremists without evidence.


Yeah no comparison at all.


tower9 said:


> Nope. I've been perfectly honest here. You are just trying to shift the conversation.
> 
> I'm done here. You are just being over-emotional. Your government can do no wrong in your eyes, so there is no point. You are not Uighur, you do not experience things through their eyes, you don't know or care what is happening to them, that much is evident. You just care about the Chinese govt. always being right no matter what.


Nope you are just trying to shift to conversation from the fact you are a hypocrite and everything you post are blatant U.S. lies and loaded question on false premises China does not need to justify or answer, while you defend the evident criminals with over-emotional spins and excuses.

Its very evident you dont care about Uighurs and you are just trying to slander entire China and just target its institutions and minorities in another attempt to divide. You nor your American friends in crime are not Uighur, you do not experience things through their eyes you only spew the same U.S. invented propaganda lies over and over again. Their propaganda is always true no matter how baseless the fabrications are and how many times it was disproven not just in this matter but all the countless other lies they produced to aid terrorists and criminals, justify economic wars and justifiy direct attacks on innocent people who just stand in the way of their hegemony. The U.S. regime who spawned these lies and the U.S. regime controlled "free" press and patsies like you that perpetuate and echoe the lies only care about isolating competition with slander and spawning conflicts outside of U.S. borders.

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## Foxtrot Delta

haidian said:


>


Wow urumqi's subway looks dope. I'll visit again next yet first stop as always urumqi.



OsmanAli98 said:


> I live in NYC yes our subway is a slum but its hard to maintain it because its 110 plus years plus our rolling stock dates back to the 1960s some of it now
> 
> 
> 
> Nice pics what did you do in China back then and tell me how was it



100+ years thats something. They should have it updated now. They have the resources. 

It was fun 6 years of study in china. Dtated in urumqi for 3 years . shenyang city 3 years also. Went to beijing and many other cities for travel and fun. Best time of my life becoz of my friends. 

I plan to go again nedt year for 3 more years. Of study.

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> * Urumqi Subway Stations: Everything is written in Chinese, Uighur and English 3 languages*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *



Looks more beautiful than many of Taipei MRT stations. I also like that each station has their own characteristics, but not uniform.

That's also the way Taipei MRT stations are constructed.

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## Yankee-stani

Foxtrot Delta said:


> Wow urumqi's subway looks dope. I'll visit again next yet first stop as always urumqi.
> 
> 
> 
> 100+ years thats something. They should have it updated now. They have the resources.
> 
> It was fun 6 years of study in china. Dtated in urumqi for 3 years . shenyang city 3 years also. Went to beijing and many other cities for travel and fun. Best time of my life becoz of my friends.
> 
> I plan to go again nedt year for 3 more years. Of study.




You would think that running Public Transit is easy here.Not after WW2 the US went Highway crazy and Public Transit declined badly it wasnt untill like the 1970s investments towards Public Transit would start again plus locally the City of NYC does not run the subways or busses its the MTA which runs which is run by the State of New York.Anyways how was Urumqi like and the people,Uighurs,Hans,Hui


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## haidian

OsmanAli98 said:


> You would think that running Public Transit is easy here.Not after WW2 the US went Highway crazy and Public Transit declined badly it wasnt untill like the 1970s investments towards Public Transit would start again plus locally the City of NYC does not run the subways or busses its the MTA which runs which is run by the State of New York.Anyways how was Urumqi like and the people,Uighurs,Hans,Hui


2012 was only 3 years after the large communal violence in Urumqi in 2009, so I guessed the ethnic resentment was pretty high back then, now after almost a decade, it can be different, but anyway, I honest don't know, it's just my guess.

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## jaybird

tower9 said:


> Obviously people here are paranoid AF.
> 
> I'm not Indian, I'm Chinese American. Period.
> 
> You might wonder why I'm in a Pakistani forum. I actually subscribed to a past Pakistani military forum, because they had lots of activity and information about China and Iran, two countries I'm interested in. Jesus mane.



No need to hide behind a Chinese flag because you are shameful of your own Indian heritage dude. We can smell your curry style even from the internet.  There are quite a few Indians like you in the forum pretending to be some other nationalities and acting as provocateurs.

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## rcrmj

tower9 said:


> U
> Tell me, is it not in fact true that Uighurs *cannot even enter a mosque if they are under 18 years old?*


is there any problem with this rule? sending kids to churchs or mosques to inject superfical religious stuff is medieval`````not only to Uighurs, but to all Chinese citizens. so dont use such naive propaganda to justify your funny stereotype.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

rcrmj said:


> is there any problem with this rule? sending kids to churchs or mosques to inject superfical religious stuff is medieval`````not only to Uighurs, but to all Chinese citizens. so dont use such naive propaganda to justify your funny stereotype.


Well said！

The Chinese central government and local governments will never allow church schools to exist.

All Chinese citizens must receive government-approved secular school education.

According to China's experience of being invaded by Western countries, the church school is a spy organization branch and a spiritual control tool for Western bandit countries.

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## 帅的一匹

tower9 said:


> I said this before, the Western media is full of exaggerations regarding China and even outright lies. But what is happening in Xinjiang is oppression. It is not made up. It has accelerated during Xi Jinping's regime. Stop denying the facts.
> 
> I am against it as a matter of moral principle. What is happening is wrong.


as if you had personally experienced the oppression in Xingjiang.......



tower9 said:


> Because the US obviously had a dark history with slavery, racism, etc.
> 
> The US is not perfect, but it has improved significantly in the last half century. The last president was half-Black btw.
> 
> This has nothing to do with the Uighurs being oppressed, which is happening right now. They are being detained in large numbers in camps, their religion is being destroyed, they are being spied on and harassed as a population. This is happening now as we speak and has gotten worse since Xi took office.


improve significantly recently by your president? you sure about that? even John Mccain think Trump is an idiot.

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## A ka li

Last summer, I spent more than 10 days in Xinjiang, and the development was very good, safe, and there was no problem with national unity. A little bit is not as shocking as the Tibetan friends said six years ago.

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## A ka li

The Rural Tourism and Tourism Poverty Alleviation Promotion Conference was informed that the effectiveness of poverty alleviation in tourism in our district has become increasingly apparent. In the past three years, tourism directly led to the employment of 114,500 people, which indirectly led to the employment of 400,300 people; among them, directly promoted 12,000 households and 21,700 poor households. Employment has indirectly led to the employment of 20,600 households and 39,400 poor households.
In recent years, the tourism industry in the region has implemented the rural tourism quality project, fostering new development momentum of rural development, promoting the sustainable development of rural tourism, promoting tourism + leisure agriculture, upgrading rural tourism products, and building 263 poverty alleviation projects to promote poverty alleviation. Get rich. Around 22 deep poverty-stricken counties in the four states of southern Xinjiang, the autonomous region has taken measures to improve the tourism employment skills of rural people and broaden the way to increase income.
Up to now, the whole country has developed a total of 1552 star farms and herdsmen (excluding the Corps), more than 4,000 non-star farms and herdsmen, and 1,513 tourist and catering business households, creating a national “tourism poverty alleviation public welfare planning demonstration results”. 15 “Tourism Demonstration Areas with Village Demonstration Project” and “Cooperatives + Farmers' Tourism Poverty Alleviation Demonstration Project”.

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## haidian



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## Foxtrot Delta

We cant drive cars in beijing or major cities in china. Its bumper to bumper traffic even though roads are wide and best in the world but people are just too many and cars too. If we dont want to he hours late we always take subway in china. Its way cheaper and way faster. Even if u have a car at ur home u dont1 dare take it out during rush ours. 

1 Chinese city can have millions of people on road. While in past millions would come next to countries or states imstead of cities.


OsmanAli98 said:


> You would think that running Public Transit is easy here.Not after WW2 the US went Highway crazy and Public Transit declined badly it wasnt untill like the 1970s investments towards Public Transit would start again plus locally the City of NYC does not run the subways or busses its the MTA which runs which is run by the State of New York.Anyways how was Urumqi like and the people,Uighurs,Hans,Hui


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## Yankee-stani

Foxtrot Delta said:


> We cant drive cars in beijing or major cities in china. Its bumper to bumper traffic even though roads are wide and best in the world but people are just too many and cars too. If we dont want to he hours late we always take subway in china. Its way cheaper and way faster. Even if u have a car at ur home u dont1 dare take it out during rush ours.
> 
> 1 Chinese city can have millions of people on road. While in past millions would come next to countries or states imstead of cities.




One of my Chinese-American bud told me once that traffic is so bad there is cap on cars in major cities like Bejiang and Shanghai


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## Foxtrot Delta

OsmanAli98 said:


> One of my Chinese-American bud told me once that traffic is so bad there is cap on cars in major cities like Bejiang and Shanghai


yes there is a cap {limit} in major cities and very heavy taxes on fuel and Cars. yet everyday new people getting new cars... but the sensible ones use the subway. Ditie as they call it in chinese.

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## Yankee-stani

Foxtrot Delta said:


> yes there is a cap {limit} in major cities and very heavy taxes on fuel and Cars. yet everyday new people getting new cars... but the sensible ones use the subway. Ditie as they call it in chinese.



Yet they thought the one child policy would work lol



Foxtrot Delta said:


> yes there is a cap {limit} in major cities and very heavy taxes on fuel and Cars. yet everyday new people getting new cars... but the sensible ones use the subway. Ditie as they call it in chinese.



Hows the pollution tho I heard its improved in recent years


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## Foxtrot Delta

OsmanAli98 said:


> Yet they thought the one child policy would work lol
> 
> 
> 
> Hows the pollution tho I heard its improved in recent years


population and living standards are on par with USA cities sometimes better. only thing is people are just too many . for example in shenyang city in north east when i have to get to a hospital at 7 am in the mornig subway is packed! like litrally their faces are in my chest or back. during rush hours. but besdies rush hour its good. 

it doesn't bother me. i like more people around me. one china policy was abandoned. it was only implimented in urban areas anyways so its not a big deal.

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## Yankee-stani

Foxtrot Delta said:


> population and living standards are on par with USA cities sometimes better. only thing is people are just too many . for example in shenyang city in north east when i have to get to a hospital at 7 am in the mornig subway is packed! like litrally their faces are in my chest or back. during rush hours. but besdies rush hour its good.
> 
> it doesn't bother me. i like more people around me. one china policy was abandoned. it was only implimented in urban areas anyways so its not a big deal.



I am saying thats all lot of people how are Pakistanis viewed there tbh


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## haidian

Rush hour every subway in China is packed,that's true. other times they are ok, not many people.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

I didn't know wulumuqi,has subway operating already and I am Chinese!

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## casual

beijing subway is probably the ugliest in all of china.

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## haidian

casual said:


> beijing subway is probably the ugliest in all of china.


Beijing subway is just like all other Chinese cities subways, neither more beautiful nor more ugly. Beijing subway

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## A ka li

Reprinted from the Jakarta Post:
In China, there is a well-known folk song "We are a good place in Xinjiang". The pastoral pastures, the fruits and the fragrances, and the unity of all ethnic groups are depicted in the songs.
It is like singing and dancing, which makes people feel like they are immersed in the world and is very popular among friends from all over the world. Xinjiang is good, but it’s not only good in the region.
Beautiful scenery, rich in products, and better respect and close unity among people of different nationalities, cultures and beliefs.
Building a harmonious atmosphere of a beautiful home. Xinjiang gathers 13 world residents, 6 major religions, and more than 24 million people.
The realization of harmonious and inclusive development in the region is inseparable from the ethnic and religious policies adhered to by the Chinese government, especially the policy of freedom of religious belief.
The Constitution of the People’s Republic of China clearly states: “Citizens of the People’s Republic of China have freedom of religious belief. The Chinese government
The Constitution respects and protects citizens’ freedom of religious belief. In Xinjiang, there are about 14 million citizens who believe in Islam and 24,400 mosques.
There are 29,000 faculty members. Governments at all levels in Xinjiang fully respect the religious feelings and religious needs of religious citizens, and protect normal religions according to law.
activity. During the holy month of Ramadan, we will fully guarantee the supply of materials at a reasonable price and ensure the safety of food. The halal restaurant is closed or opened completely
The Lord decides at his own discretion without any interference. The mosque is equipped with medical services and cooling equipment to provide Iftars for the fasting. Annual package
Thousands of Muslims organized to go to Mecca for pilgrimage, and arranged for doctors, chefs, guides, translators and other staff to provide security services. Draw
Special funds will be allocated to actively repair religious sites such as the Kashgar Aydin Mosque and the Hotan Gaman Mosque and include them in cultural relics protection units. Charge
The representatives of the religious circles shall ensure the right to participate in the administration of state affairs through the people's congresses and political consultation meetings at all levels.
The freedom of religious belief and happiness of the Muslim people in Xinjiang has also attracted the attention of many Indonesian friends. Once in Urumqi
Sayed, the president of the Federation of Islamic clerics who went to worship with Muslims in Xinjiang, praised "the Chinese government guarantees citizens' beliefs."
Providing various support and convenience for Muslims to fulfill their religious obligations and customs." Participated in the "Xinjiang in my lens" photography collection
The camera of the Antalya news agency, Ismail, recorded the grand occasion of the Ramadan in Xinjiang by camera, which opened up the horizon and enhanced the situation.
solution. Not long ago, just after interviewing from Xinjiang, the reporter of the drip network, Fa Ya, recalled that the news at that time was still vivid, and the local government built the foundation.
He was deeply impressed by the infrastructure, the protection of traditional culture, and the protection of normal religious activities in accordance with the law.
The religious freedom policy has been fully implemented in Xinjiang. All ethnic groups have harmonious, equal and friendly relations, but there are still dark
The flow is surging. Some people promote religious extremism in Xinjiang, create terrorism activities, and harm innocent groups of ethnic groups, including religious people.
The public is essentially anti-human, anti-social, anti-civilian, anti-religious. In fact, many countries in the world are facing this kind of wrong trend of thought.
Intrusion, religious extremism and terrorism have become public enemies of mankind. Countries should cooperate and work together, but it is regrettable.
Yes, some Western institutions have recently pursued double standards, deliberately distorted the facts, and speculated about the so-called "re-education camp".
Prevent religious extremism from infiltrating and de-minimizing efforts. In fact, the measures taken by the local government in Xinjiang are both “treating the symptoms” and making mistakes.
People on the way are far from extreme religions; they also “rule the roots” to help them train their professional skills and integrate them into society as soon as possible. In addition, Xinjiang
It also promotes stability, promotes development, promotes people's livelihood, and better realizes Xinjiang through pairing and helping, assisting in villages, and aiding Xinjiang.
Social stability and long-term stability.
Chinese people often say that "everything is better than seeing one." Evaluating whether Xinjiang is good or not, beauty and beauty are not to be heard by people, and people are clouded.
It depends on personal experience and feelings. Welcome Indonesian friends to visit Xinjiang frequently. I believe that you will agree with me at that time.
Xinjiang is indeed a good place.

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## haidian

After a major earthquake hit Tashkurgan, Xinjiang. Old houses all collapsed while the government built earthquake proof houses all stand, not even one was damaged. Luckily the families now live in the government built new houses and no one got hurt.
https://v.qq.com/x/cover/ej5q3cfjfqi5ai5/s0023hn6das.html

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## gangarambihari

all is well .


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## A ka li

Yes, Xinjiang is developing very well.

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## 帅的一匹

rcrmj said:


> is there any problem with this rule? sending kids to churchs or mosques to inject superfical religious stuff is medieval`````not only to Uighurs, but to all Chinese citizens. so dont use such naive propaganda to justify your funny stereotype.


people shall have the right to choose the religion when he or she grow up, not given at birth.

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## oprih

haidian said:


> After a major earthquake hit Tashkurgan, Xinjiang. Old houses all collapsed while the government built earthquake proof houses all stand, not even one was damaged. Luckily the families now live in the government built new houses and no one got hurt.
> https://v.qq.com/x/cover/ej5q3cfjfqi5ai5/s0023hn6das.html


Great work by the Chinese government, the Chinese are lucky to have a government that truly cares for them. Meanwhile the dumbs indians are being duped and scammed by their beloved government 24/7.

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## oprih

Very beautiful and modern with professional crews ready to welcome and assist passengers. Meanwhile in new york, they trained giant rats to greet you instead especially if you have food with you.

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## Foxtrot Delta

OsmanAli98 said:


> I am saying thats all lot of people how are Pakistanis viewed there tbh


police keeps a close eye on pakistaniz. other than that general population of xinjiang either han, Uyghur or kazakhs all have favourable opnions of pakistaniz. a few afghans visit there with fake pakistani identities or i should say it happened it the past and married a few beautiful uyghur women and went back to sell them. Chinese think pakistaniz did that while in pakistan human traficing is non existant in my opnion but that initially gave pakistan a bad name. later on it was told to general population they were afghans who did it.

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## Jlaw

Yingluck said:


> Chinese, not just China but Chinese everywhere (in Singapore) is the only race that practice discrimination against Chinese themselves in favor of minorities.
> 
> Xinjiang has 15 years free education and lots of assistance for college.
> 
> Han Chinese province never get this.
> 
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1076203.shtml
> 
> Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, in Northwest China, will offer free high school education to all students in the region starting in December benefiting nearly 860,000 students, education regulators announced.
> 
> The move will provide every student in Xinjiang with 15 years of free education, covering three years of preschool, nine years of primary and middle school education and three years of high school or vocational training.
> 
> Tuition fees will be waived for students who will also receive free accommodation and textbooks. Subsidies will be provided to students from low-income families, according to the Xinjiang Daily on Monday.


They (Chinese) get pissed off when others discriminate against them with affirmative college entrance requirements .


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

haidian said:


>


Better in general than my hometown in Dangshan County,Anhui Province,East China.

1) We firmly oppose the Chinese government's mandatory construction of houses for the poor in Xinjiang;
2) The Chinese government does not respect the right of the poor to choose a poor life.

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## Maxpane

Amazing work


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

haidian said:


> I know why they look so happy, it seems they live in a better house than me in Beijing.
> 
> 
> No, in the west they call those residential complex " camps". They can even pinpoint them on the satelite photos.


 This is what the Western media said about Xinjiang’s concentration camps that restrict minority rights?
I hope that I can establish such a concentration camp in my hometown of Anhui Province.

If there is no economic development, the Chinese government and the Xinjiang local government have no money to establish these houses, so economic development is the top priority, and nuclear warheads also need money to maintain.

Pakistani brothers, we sincerely suggest that you abandon some chores that hinder economic development and concentrate on economic development.

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## Yingluck

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> Better in general than my hometown in Dangshan County,Anhui Province,East China.
> 
> 1) We firmly oppose the Chinese government's mandatory construction of houses for the poor in Xinjiang;
> 2) The Chinese government does not respect the right of the poor to choose a poor life.




Economist : 

1. When you construct house for poor, it will give rise to clutch mentality
2. When too much poor aggregate in one place, it will become slumps
3. The government will distort housing market and not being fair to the other citizens


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## haidian

Of course the west always ignores how fast Xinjiang has developed, they believe people from Syria, Iraq and Afghanistn live a much better and freer life than Uighurs in Xinjiang, cause those countries are all created or reshaped by the west.

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## A ka li

Reprinted: I am an Australian Chinese businessman. I have already planned to go to Xinjiang for a long time. So I took this summer and went all the way to Kashgar and Hotan, and over the Tianshan Mountains. Due to the compact schedule, although it’s just a look at it,
But for me personally, it is a lifetime unforgettable.
The vast majority of southern Xinjiang people, especially Uighurs, are always simple, welcoming, and trustworthy.
At dusk, I was alone in the old town of Kashgar, almost lost. The afterglow of the setting sun shines on the ancient city that must pass through this Silk Road. The mystery of southern Xinjiang is mainly due to the fact that most Chinese have not been to this area. The Uighurs encountered on this road are totally different from people's imaginations and legends. Passing through a village, Uncle Uighur found that I was taking pictures of him, and then smiled and saluted. On Kashgara, the hawkers at the dried fruit stalls saw that I was taking pictures, started to be funny, and made a fun expression. Everything is so casual.
South Xinjiang, under the Muztag Peak, on the shores of Lake Kalekule. I couldn't help but close my eyes and feel the moist breeze blowing my face. Then I sneaked into the tent of a nomad's house. They arranged for the milk to roast and treat me with hospitality. If paying in this situation would be an insult to them, I would quietly hide the money under the carpet and say goodbye.
The Hetian grape promenade, which spreads dozens of kilometers of country roads, is full of vines and dried raisins on the trees. A man wandered here, smashing the farmhouse and meeting the Uygur girl Ainur. She specially climbed the vine and took a bunch of ripe and crystal-clear green citrons for me to taste. The taste of the grapes is still unforgettable. Later, I came back and checked. Ainur is the moonlight in Uighur, just like her eyes, she is clean and innocent. Ainur and his father and brother run a wool workshop at home. The younger brother is playing wool in the sky every day. The work is very hard, but it has a very good income. Although the family is busy every day, it is harmonious and warm.
Over the road to the Tianshan Mountains, heavy snow fell, lost direction near the No. 1 glacier, finally encountered the nomads, asked the way, stopped the turn, or it could not reach Korla that day. When I asked for directions, I drank a bowl of hot milk tea and went to the heart.
Xinjiang is a beautiful place. The simple and straightforward people have cultivated this rich land with hard work. Now they have not felt the rumors of the previous rumors. All production and life are carried out in an orderly manner. People’s lives are happy. And well-being, this is a beautiful trip, impressive.

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## A ka li

That is great.

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## TaiShang

Sounds like a great trip. No wonder Xinjiang has become a hot tourist spot over the years. 

Share more images, if possible.

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## Roybot

TaiShang said:


> Sounds like a great trip. No wonder Xinjiang has become a hot tourist spot over the years.
> 
> Share more images, if possible.



Can tourists travel on their own in Xinjiang or do they have to be chaperoned around by a guide?

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## TaiShang

Roybot said:


> Can tourists travel on their own in Xinjiang or do they have to be chaperoned around by a guide?



No need for a guide but guide may help for foreign tourists otherwise there will be difficulty in communication. Even standard Mandarin may not help in many locales, as I experience often. 

People mostly like to travel in groups. Even in Taiwan, Mainland tourists travel in groups (and same for Taiwan travelers in Mainland) as they find it more convenient (especially senior tourists -- and most of China's tourists are seniors as they retire quite early). 

But I never signed up for a guided tour so far. 

@AndrewJin

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

I really can't believe that there are still people who think that going to Xinjiang needs government approval?


Of course, language and communication problems are indeed a problem. Even for Chinese people in China, such as Guangdong or Shanghai people going to Xinjiang, there are communication and language problems. In northern Xinjiang, Mandarin is basically spoken. In southern Xinjiang, because of the relatively high Uyghur population, Mandarin is also less circulated (for youth，communication is easier, and for older, communication problems does exist).

People who have been brainwashed by the Western media too deeply have lost their ability to think.

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## haidian

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> I really can't believe that there are still people who think that going to Xinjiang needs government approval?
> 
> 
> Of course, language and communication problems are indeed a problem. Even for Chinese people in China, such as Guangdong or Shanghai people going to Xinjiang, there are communication and language problems. In northern Xinjiang, Mandarin is basically spoken. In southern Xinjiang, because of the relatively high Uyghur population, Mandarin is also less circulated (for youth，communication is easier, and for older, communication problems does exist).
> 
> People who have been brainwashed by the Western media too deeply and have lost their ability to think.


What do you expect from that brainwashed to the core Indian who doesn't even bother to check thousands of Xinjiang traveling vlogs posted by westerners on Youtube.

Where is the guide..?

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> No need for a guide but guide may help for foreign tourists otherwise there will be difficulty in communication. Even standard Mandarin may not help in many locales, as I experience often.
> 
> People mostly like to travel in groups. Even in Taiwan, Mainland tourists travel in groups (and same for Taiwan travelers in Mainland) as they find it more convenient (especially senior tourists -- and most of China's tourists are seniors as they retire quite early).
> 
> But I never signed up for a guided tour so far.
> 
> @AndrewJin


I traveled alone when I was in college.
I took 30+hour train from Shanghai, and, only a hard seat!

Now, of course, we can enjoy a fast and convenient bullet train ride to Northern Xinjiang.

In Xinjiang, I visited Urumqi City, Tianchi Mountains, Kanas National Park.
My father's student is one of Xinjiang's top10 richest <40 young people.
Luck me, I stayed in his resort!
The resort is in a city （五家渠） governed by 建设兵团，an amazing paradise built on the outskirt of a desert.







Everything in Xinjiang is mind-blowing.
I thought I would have traveled to a third-world slum.
Instead, I saw the same development as I saw in Shanghai.



haidian said:


> What do you expect from that brainwashed to the core Indian. Who doesn't even bother to check thousands of Xinjiang traveling vlogs posted by westerners on Youtube.
> 
> Where is the guide..?


Xinjiang's development and infra is light years ahead SP2012.

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## TaiShang

AndrewJin said:


> I traveled alone when I was in college.
> I took 30+hour train from Shanghai, and, only a hard seat!
> 
> Now, of course, we can enjoy a fast and convenient bullet train ride to Northern Xinjiang.
> 
> In Xinjiang, I visited Urumqi City, Tianchi Mountains, Kanas National Park.
> My father's student is one of Xinjiang's top10 richest <40 young people.
> Luck me, I stayed in his resort!
> The resort is in a city （五家渠） governed by 建设兵团，an amazing paradise built on the outskirt of a desert.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything in Xinjiang is mind-blowing.
> I thought I would have traveled to a third-world slum.
> Instead, I saw the same development as I saw in Shanghai.
> 
> 
> Xinjiang's development and infra is light years ahead SP2012.



Development is the best response to the fixed-minded, close-eyed cynics (I will not say what Cynic meant in Ancient Greece).

Anything can be denied, but, development cannot. Denial comes at one's own expense. China is on the right path by focusing on development and leaving aside mouthful words. 

Material reality speaks for itself. For China, for India, for anyone.

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> Development is the best response to the fixed-minded, close-eyed cynics (I will not say what Cynic meant in Ancient Greece).
> 
> Anything can be denied, but, development cannot. Denial comes at one's own expense. China is on the right path by focusing on development and leaving aside mouthful words.
> 
> Material reality speaks for itself. For China, for India, for anyone.


That year was even before Urumqi opened her first high-speed railway and very first subway.
I hope I could travel again to see a brand new Xinjiang!






And driving across Tianshan Mountains!

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## haidian

I plan to take one month off and take a road trip to Xinjiang from Beijing next summer.

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## TaiShang

AndrewJin said:


> That year was even before Urumqi opened her first high-speed railway and very first subway.
> I hope I could travel again to see a brand new Xinjiang!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And driving across Tianshan Mountains!



I think Xinjiang renews itself every year. So, each travel will bring in different experience than the previous one. 

Perhaps it makes more sense to compare Mumbai with Xinjiang, rather than Shanghai.

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> I think Xinjiang renews itself every year. So, each travel will bring in different experience than the previous one.
> 
> Perhaps it makes more sense to compare Mumbai with Xinjiang, rather than Shanghai.


Mumbai?
They need light years to match the current level of cities in China's poorest province.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

AndrewJin said:


> Mumbai?
> They need light years to match the current level of cities in China's poorest province.


Indians’ urination problems(defecate indiscriminately on street) will continue to plague India for 150 years.
When there are enough toilets in India, then let Mumbai, India compare with Urumqi, China Xinjiang.

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## haidian

*Xinjiang village tour and cuisines*

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## A ka li

Reprinted: I lived in Thailand since I was a child. Because of the low latitude and low weather in Thailand, I saw more seas. After I went to study in China, my Xinjiang classmates often told me about delicious Xinjiang cuisine. The beauty of online Raiders also fascinated me. The deserts, grasslands and snow mountains of Xinjiang, China are yearning for the future. For us, Xinjiang is a magical land. However, I am a little embarrassed. I have seen the news of the "7·5" incident in Urumqi, Xinjiang, and the reports of large and small riots on the Internet. The people who are full of blood and blood, the cruel terrorists who hold the machete... I once Hesitated. So in the summer of 2018, with the encouragement of my Xinjiang classmates, I finally got the courage and decided to go and see for myself. What is Xinjiang like? !
["Living and fragrance" - Urumqi]





At 12 noon, the plane landed at Urumqi Diwopu Airport on time. I took my luggage and got ready to take a taxi to book a good hotel. I thought the Western style, surrounded by the desolate Gobi, was actually quite different from what I imagined. The sky here is very blue, the blue is dazzling, the clouds are like a silky disk in the sky; the green is covered with the streets, the shade is cool and pleasant; the high-rise buildings everywhere, the Han and the ethnic minorities come and go, talk and laugh, lively Extremely, this is clearly "plug on Jiangnan"!
When I arrived at the hotel, I was a little hungry and decided to go out and look for food to start my wonderful journey today. I walked all the way, and the ethnic minorities with different forms of yellow skin, listening to a variety of incomprehensible languages, made me feel particularly interesting.
If you want to know a place, just look at what kind of people live in this city, you can know the local customs of this place. The people of Xinjiang are very enthusiastic. When I ask for directions, the enthusiastic ethnic minorities point me in the direction. They don’t exclude foreigners. The fruits are everywhere, the price is low, cantaloupe, grapes, pears, peaches, red dates... sweet to me. In my heart.
When I came to the restaurant, I decided to order the famous Xinjiang dish - the big plate chicken. The succulent chicken still retains a tough taste, and the soft, crispy potatoes are a bite. Hanging the soup with a root belt is better than eating meat!
I plan to visit the sights in Urumqi: People's Park, Shuimogou Park and the International Grand Bazaar. People's Park is the largest park in Urumqi. The trees are towering, the flowers and plants are everywhere, and the lake is surrounded by lakes and green trees.
In the square, ethnic minorities of all ethnic groups sing and dance, each with a gesture and a peaceful, I did not feel that there was a serious violent incident here. This is the true life of the people of Xinjiang!
When I was on the bus to go to Shuimogou Park, a building on the street attracted my attention.
The vaulted tower, the tip of the crescent, is solemn and majestic.
I hurriedly got out of the car and came close to know that this is an Islamic mosque named Khan Tengri, which means the king of the king.
As the evening approached, I decided to cancel the plan to go to Shuimogou Park and take a look at the International Grand Bazaar.
Spacious neighborhoods, yellow and white buildings, dazzling handicrafts, and most importantly, the fragrant Xinjiang cuisine, Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar is the world's largest Bazaar.
Neon lights entangled in the buildings of the Western Region, making the city of the Western Region more mysterious.
Before coming to Xinjiang, the online Raiders told me that there is no nightlife in Urumqi. The Grand Bazaars are ethnic minorities without Han Chinese. However, the truth is that there are people in front of them. They bought a fried noodle soup and could not find a seat. They can only taste in the corner. It's hot and delicious, it's delicious!
Huang Chengcheng's roasted whole lamb, the dish of oil beads, pepper and chicken, spicy goat's hooves, handmade ice cream, delicious and delicious food, the taste of the people of the city and the exquisiteness of the tall, can best reflect the life scene of the people. In this lively and extraordinary sea, this is a human fireworks belonging to the people!
I played very happy during the day, but I also found that the security check in Xinjiang is strict! I have to open the package for security when I eat, enter the park, and enter Bazaar. It’s really troublesome!
However, although I feel very safe and at ease, I will try my best to adapt!
I think we have misunderstood the Uighurs, misunderstood Islam, and misunderstood the beautiful Xinjiang.
Maybe we were all scared by the little terrorists, thinking that Xinjiang, like Iraq on TV, is so hot, but actually?
What I see is a stable and harmonious society, a warm and hospitable people, a fruity fragrance, a gourmet paradise! Xinjiang is really a good place!
["Guizi ancient country" - Kuqa]
At 06:39, the train K9772 steadily stopped at the Aksuku Che County Railway Station and opened the second stop of my trip to Xinjiang.
"When you look at the 100,000 peaks of Kucha, you know that the Five Sacred Mountains are also mediocre; he wants to be Xu Xiake, and he goes to Tianxi and then to the east. On the ground, there are five hundred gongs in the Xiangong, and Chixia shakes the North Tianmen; Not as big as a cloud."
This is a magnificent poem written by the famous Chinese scholar Feng Qiyong during the tour of Kuqa. I was also deeply attracted by the Kucha ancient treasury.
In the past, the ancient country of Kucha, the historical city of history, the end of the Hotstan Road is the Kuche Palace, the Kucha Museum in the Wangfu, which has been seen all the time.
When I came to Kuqa, I had to eat a Kuche.
Well, at first I thought it was the big cake I had in my Chinese school because it was similar to scones. The oysters I saw in Urumqi were small, and the Kuqa was large and thin. It is said that the largest one is more than 2 meters in diameter and is called the "King of the Suizhong". There will be one or two families in every street in the old town of Kuche, and thousands of gongs can be made in one day.
The next day, my Xinjiang classmate and her father came to pick me up. Because her father was sent to work in Wushi County before, I planned to go there to have a look.
When I arrived in Wushi County, I really felt the true rural life in Xinjiang. After I learned more, I deeply felt that Xinjiang can have the stability of the present, and it is really hard to come by.
In 2014, 16 and 18 years, this is the third time that her father was sent to the village of Yukak Kau Tuol in Aksuash County. I didn't understand it before. Why did the unit send him to work so far and so poor?
His father explained to me that since 2014, Xinjiang has carried out the activities of “visiting the people, benefiting the people and living together, gathering people's hearts”, and sent hundreds of thousands of cadres to serve the masses through the grassroots work and solve the poverty problem.
"Wen can preach, Wu can plow the ground, get the hall, get the kitchen", in the field through the wind and rain, in the farmhouse, the grounding gas, they and the villagers eat and sleep with the same labor, pull home, make friends, to the villagers Explain the good policies and good thoughts of the Communist Party of China, and call the brothers and sisters, and say nothing. This is the most real life state of the cadres I feel.
The villagers could not earn money by farming villagers. After seeing the difficulties of the poor households in the village, the cadres visited the survey and decided to build chicken sheds for 8 poor households according to the characteristics of the village and the actual situation of the poor families. Equipment, choose the chicken breed suitable for the villagers.
Looking at the chickens and ducks growing up a little, seeing the faces of the poor villagers with a gratifying smile, they can finally get rid of the hats of poor households, and I am really happy and happy for them!
My friend told me that thousands of ordinary cadres like his father were sent to various parts of Xinjiang. They abandoned their own small family. For the sake of peace, stability, prosperity and development in Xinjiang, they have been adhering to the front line of the grassroots for a long time. They have always lived with the people of all ethnic groups, want to be together, work together, and hold tight like pomegranate seeds. together!
Here I learned a saying, and I was touched.
The people of Xinjiang love national unity as much as they love their eyes, and cherish national unity as much as they cherish their own lives.
Seeing the scene in front of me, I heard a touching story. I also thought that there were some media and netizens on the Internet who smeared China and smeared Xinjiang. It was very sad.
They may not have come to Xinjiang at all, but they are smeared and accused by delusions and speculations. This is not right!
Today, I want to record what I have seen and heard, and let more people know that when you approach Xinjiang, you will find that it is a beautiful and moving place. I think, this trip, I will definitely remember for a lifetime.
["South Xinjiang Pearl" - Kashgar]
If you have never been to Kashgar, you have never been to Xinjiang. This is the saying of Xinjiang people. So, I flew to the city of Kashgar, which is 71° east longitude and 35° north latitude.
The plane, the dry air and the yellow sand make me feel uncomfortable.
Came to the hostel, put down the luggage, and downstairs is the Etihad Square. Around the square is a Uighur old man sitting in a circle chatting. The children are joking and running in the middle of the square. Visitors are taking photos to commemorate the photo. The sunset of Etihad Square is particularly beautiful in the warm sunshine.
The Etihad Mosque is a landmark in the city centre of Kashgar. In the morning, the horn of the horn from the horn of the square and the siren of the patrol car on the street woke me up. I found that there were more patrol cars in Kashgar than in other areas. The security check was stricter, but I stayed for so many days. Get used to it.
Muslims entered the mosque's side door in twos and threes, and the mosque couldn't fit it. They paved the mat and worshipped the square. After the ceremony, the crowds dispersed and restored their tranquility, as if they had never been there before.
I entered the Etihad Mosque, not the time of worship. The temple was quiet, the staff was cleaning the courtyard, and in the hall, occasionally several Muslims prayed piously.
Walk out of the mosque and continue on the old streets.
Not far from the mosque is the ancient city of Kashgar. The ancient city is the oldest Uighur residential area in Kashgar. Most of the houses are civil and brick-wood structures, and the streets and corridors with flexible layout are criss-crossed.
Going to the ancient city to find specialties is a good choice for food. In addition to the well-known hand-caught meat, mutton skewers, and clams, there are also baked buns, jar meat, haggis, and koji.
The hand workshops distributed in different blocks are a major attraction of the ancient city, including ironware, bronze making, leather goods, musical instrument processing, etc. The craftsmanship of the craftsmen is basically ancestral.
I like to take pictures of local children. They are innocently shy and friendly with a smile.
The high-class residences, built in the Uighur settlements on the high cliffs, have a history of thousands of years. Compared with the ancient city scenic spot that has been renovated to the opposite side, it is more original and is the essence of the old city.
Upstairs, over-street, suspended buildings, crooked, staggered alleys, and Uighur residents who have lived here for generations have formed a living folk museum.
But after so many places I found a problem.
Today's craters and I seem to be a little different in the online Raiders. The old craters I saw on the Internet were very rudimentary, but I walked three cities and found that the squats seemed to be clean. I used to see people on the Internet saying that "halal is clean and safe", "people who eat halal are clean, people who don't eat halal are dirty", I still think, is halal food synonymous with clean? ?
Later, I learned that some people were confused and distorted by religious extreme thoughts, and regarded clean as a halal label. Now the crater, after the transformation, clean and hygienic, to extremes from the tip of the tongue, starting from the most common cockroaches, I like this move in Xinjiang!
A far away place, you think that going there is a very complicated matter, but when your feet are stepping on the real land, you will find that everything is not as difficult as you think.
The reason why many people dare not come to Xinjiang to travel to southern Xinjiang is to worry about personal safety. Before I came to tell the truth, I was also somewhat scared. But after I came, I discovered that because the government took precautionary measures to prevent problems, social security was no problem. .
This place in Xinjiang, social stability, national unity, and quiet years; the Uighurs are warm, friendly, and versatile. It is not demonized as described by the outside world. It is not them who demonize.
The holiday is coming to an end, and I should also finish the trip to Xinjiang. Xinjiang, a beautiful place, look forward to meeting you again! I hope that you will always be stable and always beautiful!

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## A ka li

There are some of the most beautiful scenery in the world, the very harmonious people of all ethnic groups, the barbecues that you can't eat so delicious anywhere else, the people there are warm and hospitable, they have experienced turbulence and they cherish and satisfy the present. Peace and security.

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## 帅的一匹

China had spent lots of time and money developing Xingjiang, so its not surprise people have a good life in there.

tourists are welcomed in Xingjiang, you shall come with unbiased thought and views.

chinese are one of the most benevolent people on this planet, we never kill innocent people.

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## randomradio

wanglaokan said:


> chinese are one of the most benevolent people on this planet, we never kill innocent people.



Google Falun Gong. Use non-Chinese sources.

There's Tiananmen Square massacre as well.

And then, let's not forget about the Cultural Revolution.

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## 帅的一匹

unlike those so called civilized western babarians killed and enslaved Africans and Indians like animals，on what base they have the rights to accuse China? we gave those ethnic minorities health care, education, preserving their culture with huge investment, jobs, even fund Masjid for them. what the **** China shall be blamed?



randomradio said:


> Google Falun Gong. Use non-Chinese sources.
> 
> There's Tiananmen Square massacre as well.
> 
> And then, let's not forget about the Cultural Revolution.


those people in Tian an men Sqaures are rebellions, shall be dealt with iron fists. dont think Indians knowing more than me.a bunch of brainless students instigated by CIA agents wanted to overthrow the goverment. see the result?

Indians are not welcomed in China, dirty and filthy creatures.

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## randomradio

wanglaokan said:


> those people in Tian an men Sqaures are rebellions, shall be dealt with iron fists. dont think Indians knowing more than me.a bunch of brainless students instigated by CIA agents wanted to overthrow the goverment. see the result?



Is that what the CCP told you? 



> Indians are not welcomed in China, dirty and filthy creatures.



But you can't help it, you need us.

Another thing the CCP hasn't told you, that they screwed up the birth rate.


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## 帅的一匹

randomradio said:


> Is that what the CCP told you?
> 
> 
> 
> But you can't help it, you need us.
> 
> Another thing the CCP hasn't told you, that they screwed up the birth rate.


you are incurable.

the only one who feed lies is the west, and India is their slave

keep enjoying your democracy and pee on the street side.

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## S. Martin

A ka li said:


> There are some of the most beautiful scenery in the world, the very harmonious people of all ethnic groups, the barbecues that you can't eat so delicious anywhere else, the people there are warm and hospitable, they have experienced turbulence and they cherish and satisfy the present. Peace and security.





A ka li said:


> Reprinted: I lived in Thailand since I was a child. Because of the low latitude and low weather in Thailand, I saw more seas. After I went to study in China, my Xinjiang classmates often told me about delicious Xinjiang cuisine. The beauty of online Raiders also fascinated me. The deserts, grasslands and snow mountains of Xinjiang, China are yearning for the future. For us, Xinjiang is a magical land. However, I am a little embarrassed. I have seen the news of the "7·5" incident in Urumqi, Xinjiang, and the reports of large and small riots on the Internet. The people who are full of blood and blood, the cruel terrorists who hold the machete... I once Hesitated. So in the summer of 2018, with the encouragement of my Xinjiang classmates, I finally got the courage and decided to go and see for myself. What is Xinjiang like? !
> ["Living and fragrance" - Urumqi]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> At 12 noon, the plane landed at Urumqi Diwopu Airport on time. I took my luggage and got ready to take a taxi to book a good hotel. I thought the Western style, surrounded by the desolate Gobi, was actually quite different from what I imagined. The sky here is very blue, the blue is dazzling, the clouds are like a silky disk in the sky; the green is covered with the streets, the shade is cool and pleasant; the high-rise buildings everywhere, the Han and the ethnic minorities come and go, talk and laugh, lively Extremely, this is clearly "plug on Jiangnan"!
> When I arrived at the hotel, I was a little hungry and decided to go out and look for food to start my wonderful journey today. I walked all the way, and the ethnic minorities with different forms of yellow skin, listening to a variety of incomprehensible languages, made me feel particularly interesting.
> If you want to know a place, just look at what kind of people live in this city, you can know the local customs of this place. The people of Xinjiang are very enthusiastic. When I ask for directions, the enthusiastic ethnic minorities point me in the direction. They don’t exclude foreigners. The fruits are everywhere, the price is low, cantaloupe, grapes, pears, peaches, red dates... sweet to me. In my heart.
> When I came to the restaurant, I decided to order the famous Xinjiang dish - the big plate chicken. The succulent chicken still retains a tough taste, and the soft, crispy potatoes are a bite. Hanging the soup with a root belt is better than eating meat!
> I plan to visit the sights in Urumqi: People's Park, Shuimogou Park and the International Grand Bazaar. People's Park is the largest park in Urumqi. The trees are towering, the flowers and plants are everywhere, and the lake is surrounded by lakes and green trees.
> In the square, ethnic minorities of all ethnic groups sing and dance, each with a gesture and a peaceful, I did not feel that there was a serious violent incident here. This is the true life of the people of Xinjiang!
> When I was on the bus to go to Shuimogou Park, a building on the street attracted my attention.
> The vaulted tower, the tip of the crescent, is solemn and majestic.
> I hurriedly got out of the car and came close to know that this is an Islamic mosque named Khan Tengri, which means the king of the king.
> As the evening approached, I decided to cancel the plan to go to Shuimogou Park and take a look at the International Grand Bazaar.
> Spacious neighborhoods, yellow and white buildings, dazzling handicrafts, and most importantly, the fragrant Xinjiang cuisine, Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar is the world's largest Bazaar.
> Neon lights entangled in the buildings of the Western Region, making the city of the Western Region more mysterious.
> Before coming to Xinjiang, the online Raiders told me that there is no nightlife in Urumqi. The Grand Bazaars are ethnic minorities without Han Chinese. However, the truth is that there are people in front of them. They bought a fried noodle soup and could not find a seat. They can only taste in the corner. It's hot and delicious, it's delicious!
> Huang Chengcheng's roasted whole lamb, the dish of oil beads, pepper and chicken, spicy goat's hooves, handmade ice cream, delicious and delicious food, the taste of the people of the city and the exquisiteness of the tall, can best reflect the life scene of the people. In this lively and extraordinary sea, this is a human fireworks belonging to the people!
> I played very happy during the day, but I also found that the security check in Xinjiang is strict! I have to open the package for security when I eat, enter the park, and enter Bazaar. It’s really troublesome!
> However, although I feel very safe and at ease, I will try my best to adapt!
> I think we have misunderstood the Uighurs, misunderstood Islam, and misunderstood the beautiful Xinjiang.
> Maybe we were all scared by the little terrorists, thinking that Xinjiang, like Iraq on TV, is so hot, but actually?
> What I see is a stable and harmonious society, a warm and hospitable people, a fruity fragrance, a gourmet paradise! Xinjiang is really a good place!
> ["Guizi ancient country" - Kuqa]
> At 06:39, the train K9772 steadily stopped at the Aksuku Che County Railway Station and opened the second stop of my trip to Xinjiang.
> "When you look at the 100,000 peaks of Kucha, you know that the Five Sacred Mountains are also mediocre; he wants to be Xu Xiake, and he goes to Tianxi and then to the east. On the ground, there are five hundred gongs in the Xiangong, and Chixia shakes the North Tianmen; Not as big as a cloud."
> This is a magnificent poem written by the famous Chinese scholar Feng Qiyong during the tour of Kuqa. I was also deeply attracted by the Kucha ancient treasury.
> In the past, the ancient country of Kucha, the historical city of history, the end of the Hotstan Road is the Kuche Palace, the Kucha Museum in the Wangfu, which has been seen all the time.
> When I came to Kuqa, I had to eat a Kuche.
> Well, at first I thought it was the big cake I had in my Chinese school because it was similar to scones. The oysters I saw in Urumqi were small, and the Kuqa was large and thin. It is said that the largest one is more than 2 meters in diameter and is called the "King of the Suizhong". There will be one or two families in every street in the old town of Kuche, and thousands of gongs can be made in one day.
> The next day, my Xinjiang classmate and her father came to pick me up. Because her father was sent to work in Wushi County before, I planned to go there to have a look.
> When I arrived in Wushi County, I really felt the true rural life in Xinjiang. After I learned more, I deeply felt that Xinjiang can have the stability of the present, and it is really hard to come by.
> In 2014, 16 and 18 years, this is the third time that her father was sent to the village of Yukak Kau Tuol in Aksuash County. I didn't understand it before. Why did the unit send him to work so far and so poor?
> His father explained to me that since 2014, Xinjiang has carried out the activities of “visiting the people, benefiting the people and living together, gathering people's hearts”, and sent hundreds of thousands of cadres to serve the masses through the grassroots work and solve the poverty problem.
> "Wen can preach, Wu can plow the ground, get the hall, get the kitchen", in the field through the wind and rain, in the farmhouse, the grounding gas, they and the villagers eat and sleep with the same labor, pull home, make friends, to the villagers Explain the good policies and good thoughts of the Communist Party of China, and call the brothers and sisters, and say nothing. This is the most real life state of the cadres I feel.
> The villagers could not earn money by farming villagers. After seeing the difficulties of the poor households in the village, the cadres visited the survey and decided to build chicken sheds for 8 poor households according to the characteristics of the village and the actual situation of the poor families. Equipment, choose the chicken breed suitable for the villagers.
> Looking at the chickens and ducks growing up a little, seeing the faces of the poor villagers with a gratifying smile, they can finally get rid of the hats of poor households, and I am really happy and happy for them!
> My friend told me that thousands of ordinary cadres like his father were sent to various parts of Xinjiang. They abandoned their own small family. For the sake of peace, stability, prosperity and development in Xinjiang, they have been adhering to the front line of the grassroots for a long time. They have always lived with the people of all ethnic groups, want to be together, work together, and hold tight like pomegranate seeds. together!
> Here I learned a saying, and I was touched.
> The people of Xinjiang love national unity as much as they love their eyes, and cherish national unity as much as they cherish their own lives.
> Seeing the scene in front of me, I heard a touching story. I also thought that there were some media and netizens on the Internet who smeared China and smeared Xinjiang. It was very sad.
> They may not have come to Xinjiang at all, but they are smeared and accused by delusions and speculations. This is not right!
> Today, I want to record what I have seen and heard, and let more people know that when you approach Xinjiang, you will find that it is a beautiful and moving place. I think, this trip, I will definitely remember for a lifetime.
> ["South Xinjiang Pearl" - Kashgar]
> If you have never been to Kashgar, you have never been to Xinjiang. This is the saying of Xinjiang people. So, I flew to the city of Kashgar, which is 71° east longitude and 35° north latitude.
> The plane, the dry air and the yellow sand make me feel uncomfortable.
> Came to the hostel, put down the luggage, and downstairs is the Etihad Square. Around the square is a Uighur old man sitting in a circle chatting. The children are joking and running in the middle of the square. Visitors are taking photos to commemorate the photo. The sunset of Etihad Square is particularly beautiful in the warm sunshine.
> The Etihad Mosque is a landmark in the city centre of Kashgar. In the morning, the horn of the horn from the horn of the square and the siren of the patrol car on the street woke me up. I found that there were more patrol cars in Kashgar than in other areas. The security check was stricter, but I stayed for so many days. Get used to it.
> Muslims entered the mosque's side door in twos and threes, and the mosque couldn't fit it. They paved the mat and worshipped the square. After the ceremony, the crowds dispersed and restored their tranquility, as if they had never been there before.
> I entered the Etihad Mosque, not the time of worship. The temple was quiet, the staff was cleaning the courtyard, and in the hall, occasionally several Muslims prayed piously.
> Walk out of the mosque and continue on the old streets.
> Not far from the mosque is the ancient city of Kashgar. The ancient city is the oldest Uighur residential area in Kashgar. Most of the houses are civil and brick-wood structures, and the streets and corridors with flexible layout are criss-crossed.
> Going to the ancient city to find specialties is a good choice for food. In addition to the well-known hand-caught meat, mutton skewers, and clams, there are also baked buns, jar meat, haggis, and koji.
> The hand workshops distributed in different blocks are a major attraction of the ancient city, including ironware, bronze making, leather goods, musical instrument processing, etc. The craftsmanship of the craftsmen is basically ancestral.
> I like to take pictures of local children. They are innocently shy and friendly with a smile.
> The high-class residences, built in the Uighur settlements on the high cliffs, have a history of thousands of years. Compared with the ancient city scenic spot that has been renovated to the opposite side, it is more original and is the essence of the old city.
> Upstairs, over-street, suspended buildings, crooked, staggered alleys, and Uighur residents who have lived here for generations have formed a living folk museum.
> But after so many places I found a problem.
> Today's craters and I seem to be a little different in the online Raiders. The old craters I saw on the Internet were very rudimentary, but I walked three cities and found that the squats seemed to be clean. I used to see people on the Internet saying that "halal is clean and safe", "people who eat halal are clean, people who don't eat halal are dirty", I still think, is halal food synonymous with clean? ?
> Later, I learned that some people were confused and distorted by religious extreme thoughts, and regarded clean as a halal label. Now the crater, after the transformation, clean and hygienic, to extremes from the tip of the tongue, starting from the most common cockroaches, I like this move in Xinjiang!
> A far away place, you think that going there is a very complicated matter, but when your feet are stepping on the real land, you will find that everything is not as difficult as you think.
> The reason why many people dare not come to Xinjiang to travel to southern Xinjiang is to worry about personal safety. Before I came to tell the truth, I was also somewhat scared. But after I came, I discovered that because the government took precautionary measures to prevent problems, social security was no problem. .
> This place in Xinjiang, social stability, national unity, and quiet years; the Uighurs are warm, friendly, and versatile. It is not demonized as described by the outside world. It is not them who demonize.
> The holiday is coming to an end, and I should also finish the trip to Xinjiang. Xinjiang, a beautiful place, look forward to meeting you again! I hope that you will always be stable and always beautiful!


Very good articles! Thanks for sharing what you have seen.
But I think the westerners don't care about the truths. They don't care about the real needs of Xingjiang people. What they want is to attack and smear the "wicked" commnist government. They always viciously speculate chinese government's every effort of making Xingjiang more safe and prosperous. Be careful they will say you have pitifully fallen into a well-designed trap by Communist party.



wanglaokan said:


> Indians are not welcomed in China, dirty and filthy creatures.


Don't snap aggro here, bro. What does Indians have to do with Xingjiang? Pack up your racist thinking. Don't make the situation more mess if you really want Xingjiang to be good.

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## 帅的一匹

S. Martin said:


> Very good articles! Thanks for sharing what you have seen.
> But I think the westerners don't care about the truths. They don't care about the real needs of Xingjiang people. What they want is to attack and smear the "wicked" commnist government. They always viciously speculate chinese government's every effort of making Xingjiang more safe and prosperous. Be careful they will say you have pitifully fallen into a well-designed trap by Communist party.


those western suckers only wanna see a failed or a divided China.

those so called concern for human rights are so hypocritical.



S. Martin said:


> Very good articles! Thanks for sharing what you have seen.
> But I think the westerners don't care about the truths. They don't care about the real needs of Xingjiang people. What they want is to attack and smear the "wicked" commnist government. They always viciously speculate chinese government's every effort of making Xingjiang more safe and prosperous. Be careful they will say you have pitifully fallen into a well-designed trap by Communist party.
> 
> [QUOTE="wanglaokan, post: 10841642, ］Indians are not welcomed in China, dirty and filthy creatures.


Don't snap aggro here, bro. What does Indians have to do with Xingjiang? Pack up your racist thinking. Don't make the situation more mess if you really want Xingjiang to be good.[/QUOTE]
did you see Indian spewing bs in this thread....

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## S. Martin

wanglaokan said:


> Chinese are one of the most benevolent people on this planet, we never kill innocent people.


1. As a Chinese, definitely I feel most chinese people are really peaceful. But how can you boast "we're the most..." which is like a shabby advertisement. You should never step on others to elevate ourselves.
2.Almost every country some or less has some "black histories". How dare you say we "never kill innocent people" if you know a little about the long complicated history of country.....Such brainless saying will only bring mocks to our country rather than reputation.

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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Google Falun Gong. Use non-Chinese sources.
> 
> There's Tiananmen Square massacre as well.
> 
> And then, let's not forget about the Cultural Revolution.



*A real massare is like this*

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## 帅的一匹

S. Martin said:


> 1. As a Chinese, definitely I feel most chinese people are really peaceful. But how can you boast "we're the most..." which is like a shabby advertisement. You should never step on others to elevate ourselves.
> 2.Almost every country some or less has some "black histories". How dare you say we "never kill innocent people" if you know a little about the long complicated history of country.....Such brainless saying will only bring mocks to our country rather than reputation.


we are one of the most peaceful loving people on this planet, no need to be humble at that.

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## 艹艹艹

randomradio said:


> Another thing the CCP hasn't told you, that they screwed up the birth rate.


Should we learn from your experience?

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## AndrewJin

wanglaokan said:


> we are one of the most peaceful loving people on this planet, no need to be humble at that.


You talk like a hindu

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> *A real massare is like this*





Silly propaganda created by the Pakistanis.

Terrorists had taken control of the temple and had a lot of hostages. The one who ran the rescue op was a Sikh himself.



long_ said:


> Should we learn from your experience?



Too late for that.


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## haidian

*Xinjiang-born Uyghur Rapper Wins “The Rap of China 2018” as Kris Wu Calls Out Haters*
by Jake Newby | Oct 7, 2018





Season two of _The Rap of China_ concluded on Saturday night amid a near-two hour-long flurry of advertising, product placement and a little bit of music, with two Uyghur rappers from Xinjiang facing off for the 2018 “R!CH” title. Aire, born in the region’s far western city of Kashgar, ultimately swept to victory over Nawukere (who hails from Urumqi) to land the much sought-after prize of a hug from Kris Wu.

After the troubles that have befallen last year’s _Rap of China_ co-champions GAI and PGOne, and against a background of “re-education centers” in Xinjiang and some high profile figures “disappearing” in China, we’re not sure whether now is a good or bad time for a Uyghur performer to win the competition, but putting all that to one side for a moment, Aire is certainly a deserved winner. In our piece last week looking at the background to the finale, we suggested Urumqi-born Nawu was the more likely victor, yet as the program unfolded it quickly became clear that Aire would be the one to triumph for the “west side”.


Helping to swing it for Aire were the votes of contestants knocked out in previous rounds, 75 of whom backed him compared to just 25 who supported Nawu. The latter, who uses the English moniker of Lil Em and who started out by doing covers of Eminem over a decade ago, has been accused of ripping off the US rapper. One the day the final was pre-recorded, Yunnanese artist Toxic西米 dropped a diss track suggesting Nawu was merely a “cosplayer” pretending to be Eminem.

Judge and team mentor Kris Wu used the “Chinese Eminem” tag as a compliment in previous episodes when talking about Nawu, but given Wu’s own struggle for authenticity in the hip hop sphere this appears to have compounded the issue. It seems some of the previous participants in this season of _The Rap of China_, perhaps forgetting they were part of a heavily-branded mainstream pop show, also didn’t feel Nawu was “real” enough. Or maybe they simply preferred Aire’s flow. Either way, they voted overwhelmingly for the latter.

As a riposte to the criticism levelled at them in the build-up to the final, Nawu and Kris Wu threw out a track that, compared to the usual “positive energy” proclaimed throughout the series, came packed with venom:






And in the final round Nawu turned in another impassioned performance in which he basically provided a potted biography of his career to date and repeated the line “Now you tell me who’s fake” — all while using musical elements taken from Eminem’s “Lose Yourself”. He also acknowledged that “despite lots of friends liking what I’m doing, to be honest in the scene it’s not been well received.”

This subplot made for arguably the most interesting part of the episode, and the tension was addressed explicitly during the show in comments from Kris Wu, who knows a thing or two about hip hop haters. “A lot of people have asked what is Kris Wu doing here? But this [hip hop] culture has only just started in China,” said Wu, who didn’t exactly strike a blow for originality by dressing like Michael Jackson for the night. “I don’t really care if I’m here in 10 years, 15 years; I’ll still be doing this, because I really love this music — just like Nawu.”

Meanwhile Aire, who within the narrow confines of what the show’s producers have shown us, has always come across as a thoroughly magnanimous, likeable figure, cut through the melodrama and his team coaches’ apparent preference for fellow finalist and teammate ICE with yet another full-blooded performance — one which ended with him collapsing on the floor.






Before this season began Aire was a relative unknown, especially compared to finalists Lexie Liu and Nawu, both of whom have appeared on other reality TV shows in the past. Even up until the final, he had only the most cursory of entries on Baidu Baike (a Wikipedia-like site), but his appearances and now victory on _The Rap of China_ have catapulted him to mainstream fame. What he does with that platform will be interesting to watch.

https://radiichina.com/xinjiang-bor...ap-of-china-2018-as-kris-wu-calls-out-haters/

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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Silly propaganda created by the Pakistanis.
> 
> Terrorists had taken control of the temple and had a lot of hostages. The one who ran the rescue op was a Sikh himself.


You are really pissed them, aren't you. And they assasinated your mother and son presidents, after that Indian mobs lynched countless Sikhs for revenge, a massacre always leads more massecres.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> You really pissed them, didn't you. And they assasinated your mother and son presidents, after that Indian mobs lynched countless Sikhs for revenge, a massacre always leads more massecres.



Some people go crazy and sh!t happens. But it wasn't a state sponsored calculated plot like the Great Leap Forward or Cultural Revolution or Tiananmen Square massacre or the Falun Gong killings and so on.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Some people go crazy and sh!t happens. But it wasn't a state sponsored calculated plot like the Great Leap Forward or Cultural Revolution or Tiananmen Square massacre or the Falun Gong killings and so on.


It was state sponsored or it means your government is incompetent to rein in communal violence. P. R China and India established around the same time but now after 70years we all can see what a good government and a bad government can bring to a nation.

I don't know about Indians choice, but I m very certain if time goes back to 1949 and the current Chines people were given a choice between CCP style government and Indian style democracy, we will choose the former without any hesitation.

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## 艹艹艹

randomradio said:


> Too late for that.

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## Mucahit

Nice now send him to the concentration camps so he can amuse his other Uygur friends as well.


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## haidian

Mucahit said:


> Nice now send him to the concentration camps so he can amuse his other Uygur friends as well.



After they graduated from " concentration camps"

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> It was state sponsored or it means your government is incompetent to rein in communal violence. P. R China and India established around the same time but now after 70years we all can see what a good government and a bad government can bring to a nation.



Whatchu talking about? All communal incidents were stopped by the govt themselves.



> I don't know about Indians choice, but I m very certain if time goes back to 1949 and the current Chines people were given a choice between CCP style government and Indian style democracy, we will choose the former without any hesitation.



Naturally. Your entire population has been brainwashed into it.

How many times did you and your classmates write praises about the CCP on your blackboards in school? In democracies, no one gives a damn about a party, it's the country that's paramount. The opposite in your case.


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## empirefighter

Mucahit said:


> Nice now send him to the concentration camps so he can amuse his other Uygur friends as well.


Any people who pro-Turkey in China should definitely sent to the camps in order to save their mentality. After all, Turkey is country full of losers from ancient times to modern times, no any normal person want to be a loser. The Urgur people are welcome to become a successful Chinese, but if they choose to be a loser Turkey then should leave our country. We can allow they leave away but we cannot allow they kill other normal people.

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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Naturally. Your entire population has been brainwashed into it.
> 
> How many times did you and your classmates write praises about the CCP on your blackboards in school? In democracies, no one gives a damn about a party, it's the country that's paramount. The opposite in your case.



You sound like a typical brainwashed Indian, China has much more foreigners living here than India, only Indians think India is the best place in the world and everyone dreams to live there.

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## Kyle Sun

Mucahit said:


> Nice now send him to the concentration camps so he can amuse his other Uygur friends as well.


You are the most welcomed one.


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## TaiShang

Mucahit said:


> Nice now send him to the concentration camps so he can amuse his other Uygur friends as well.



No, we will send him over to Turkey so that he could entertain those Kurds thrown in prison or Kurdish women being stripped naked by the Turkey military, tortured and tied to a car and dragged to death.


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## A ka li

wanglaokan said:


> China had spent lots of time and money developing Xingjiang, so its not surprise people have a good life in there.
> 
> tourists are welcomed in Xingjiang, you shall come with unbiased thought and views.
> 
> chinese are one of the most benevolent people on this planet, we never kill innocent people.


Yes. Minority countries have many preferential policies in China.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> You sound like a typical brainwashed Indian, China has much more foreigners living here than India, only Indians think India is the best place in the world and everyone dreams to live there.



Having more or less foreigners is totally unrelated. Expats do not have many rights after all.

And only a retard will believe India is the best place to live in. Which has nothing to do with the discussion. But someday, that will change. But when it comes to China, as long as CCP runs China, it will never be the best place to live in.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/16/asia/china-vaccine-scandal-doses-intl/index.html


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Having more or less foreigners is totally unrelated. Expats do not have many rights after all.
> 
> And only a retard will believe India is the best place to live in. Which has nothing to do with the discussion. But someday, that will change. But when it comes to China, as long as CCP runs China, it will never be the best place to live in.
> 
> https://edition.cnn.com/2018/08/16/asia/china-vaccine-scandal-doses-intl/index.html


No one says China is a best place to live, but still is a better and safer place to live than India, China may have some scandals happen once in a while, but compare to India, they are not in the same level, China kids have much better quality life than Indian kids, wealthier and longer lives with better education.

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## haidian

*Xinjiang Urumqi " I love you, China" Chinese National Day city light show*
*



*

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## haidian

*Lhasa Tibet " I love you, China" Chinese National Day city light show*
*



*

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> No one says China is a best place to live, but still is a better and safer place to live than India, China may have some scandals happen once in a while, but compare to India, they are not in the same level, China kids have much better quality life than Indian kids, wealthier and longer lives with better education.



Yeah, except for the occasional state-led massacres.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Yeah, except for the occasional state-led massacres.


In terms of masscares of the population , India is doing that eveyday, check you infant fatality rate, birth fatality rate and rate of kids under 5 died from malnutrition and cantagious diseases. India in unrivalled in the world.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> In terms of masscares of the population , India is doing that eveyday, check you infant fatality rate, birth fatality rate and rate of kids under 5 died from malnutrition and cantagious diseases. India in unrivalled in the world.



Those are not what we call massacres.

Massacres are like the one child policy, which led to the abortion of millions of fetuses under state orders, against the wishes of the parents.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Those are not what we call massacres.
> 
> Massacres are like the one child policy, which led to the abortion of millions of fetuses under state orders, against the wishes of the parents.


Funny that Indians call the unborn massacre but ignore their born. China now did away with the one child policy but birth rate decreases instead of increasing, that's how parents choose in China. Many developed nations have negative population growth rate, in Indians eyes those are massacres, you breed like rabbits and one day you will have the same policy.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> Funny that Indians call the unborn massacre but ignore their born. China now did away with the one child policy but birth rate decreases instead of increasing, that's how parents choose in China. Many developed nations have negative population growth rate, in Indians eyes those are massacres, you breed like rabbits and one day you will have the same policy.



We are not ignoring anybody. Our mortality rates have surpassed the millennium development goals. India's birth rate will start falling after India becomes a developed country, which is normal.

As for China, the CCP forced abortions. That's pretty much a massacre. Abortions are supposed to be a personal decision, not the state's.

Many developed nations have more deaths because they are developed. China is still a developing country even today. You are supposed to be breeding like rabbits today and then have lower birth rate after you are developed. The CCP, in their arrogance, screwed up.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Many developed nations have more deaths because they are developed. China is still a developing country even today. You are supposed to be breeding like rabbits today and then have lower birth rate after you are developed. The CCP, in their arrogance, screwed up.


You know nothing about China, family plan policy was introduced in the late 70's and early 80's , it was only implemented in the cities but not rural regions, back then most Chinese people lived in rural area.

When the policy was first introduced, China and India were largely at the same development level, now 30 years passed, China's economy is 5 times of India, everyone can clearly see which government screwed up their country and theirr people.

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## S. Martin

randomradio said:


> Silly propaganda created by the Pakistanis.
> 
> Terrorists had taken control of the temple and had a lot of hostages. The one who ran the rescue op was a Sikh himself.


Is that what the NCP told you?


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## randomradio

S. Martin said:


> Is that what the NCP told you?



No, it's what the Supreme Court discovered.

The terrorists even had 2 Chinese supplied rocket launchers.



haidian said:


> You know nothing about China, family plan policy was introduced in the late 70's and early 80's , it was only implemented in the cities but not rural regions, back then most Chinese people lived in rural area.
> 
> When the policy was first introduced, China and India were largely at the same development level, now 30 years passed, China's economy is 5 times of India, everyone can clearly see which government screwed up their country and theirr people.



The one child policy was only a bit more lax in the rural areas. 

And no, India's development level was considerably worse since we had to shake off 200 years of colonialism and zero GDP growth for all that time.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> And no, India's development level was considerably worse since we had to shake off 200 years of colonialism and zero GDP growth for all that time.



IndiaGross domestic product (1980)
India GDP 189.6 billion USD
1980

ChinaGross domestic product (1980)
191.2 billion USD
1980

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> IndiaGross domestic product (1980)
> India GDP 189.6 billion USD
> 1980
> 
> ChinaGross domestic product (1980)
> 191.2 billion USD
> 1980



That had nothing to do with quality of life. India's currency was very strong at the time, but China's GDP was much bigger.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> That had nothing to do with quality of life. India's currency was very strong at the time, but China's GDP was much bigger.


You can deny whatever facts that everyone can see, still, compare to what the Chinese government achieved, India is just a failed state. You jumped into this thread to trash talk China but the fact is China is still way better than you India in every aspect of life. Our government manages our country very well, India is just jealous of us, that's it.

in less than 3 decades, the Chinese government led China to become the world No.1 in almost every industry and trade, what No.1s did you Indian government get you besides that so called " the world biggest democracy". A hilarious title.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> You can deny whatever facts that everyone can see, still, compare to what the Chinese government achieved, India is just a failed state. You jumped into this thread to trash talk China but the fact is China is still way better than you India in every aspect of life. Our government manages our country very well, India is just jealous of us, that's it.



India is not jealous of China. There is nothing special about China beyond some infrastructure, which is easy to build as the economy grows. But in the next 10 years, India will have the same infrastructure China has. Plus, we will have democracy, rule of law and freedom. All traits that the average Chinese will never have as long as the CCP exists.



> in less than 3 decades, the Chinese government led China to become the world No.1 in almost every industry and trade,



No, you did it in 7 years, not 3 decades. Meaning, from 2007 to 2014, when you climbed from $3T to $11T GDP. This is when you progressed from a lower middle income country to an upper middle income country, this is the time when the middle class is created. Our 7 years is just beginning, probably next year.

When China was a $2-$3T economy, China had 10 billionaires. At the same level, India has 119 billionaires. So you know what's coming.



> what No.1s did you Indian government get you besides that so called " the world biggest democracy". A hilarious title.



We have pharmaceutical and tech exports, which are superior to China's.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> India is not jealous of China. There is nothing special about China beyond some infrastructure, which is easy to build as the economy grows. But in the next 10 years, India will have the same infrastructure China has. Plus, we will have democracy, rule of law and freedom. All traits that the average Chinese will never have as long as the CCP exists.
> .


But China is the only country in the world did it, that's kind of special,isn't it. India can do this and can do that, that's you always say, we don't say anything before we make that happen and become reality, that's our major difference. And you have demoracy and rule of law? You are the last country to talk about rule of law, don't try to be so funny.



randomradio said:


> When China was a $2-$3T economy, China had 10 billionaires. At the same level, India has 119 billionaires. So you know what's coming.
> 
> We have pharmaceutical and tech exports, which are superior to China's.


Since when a country's wealth being controlled by a few billionares is a good thing? We are working on equally distribute the wealth, of course we admit that we are far from achieving that goal, rich and poor gap is a big concern in China.

You have pharmaceutical and tech exports superior to China's? Don't lose it, do some reality check please.

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## Ultima Thule

haidian said:


> But China is the only country in the world did it, that's kind of special,isn't it. India can do this and can do that, that's you always say, we don't say anything before we make that happen and become reality, that's our major difference. And you have demoracy and rule of law? You are the last country to talk about rule of law, don't try to be so funny.


Ignore @randomradio he thinks that India is champion in all fields, and India is a master of democracy and human rights @haidian bro


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## haidian

*India plans to lessen its drug reliance on China*
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...ug-reliance-on-china/articleshow/60989553.cms

As for high tech exports, I don't know what high tech exports you are talking about, what makes you believe you are superior to China in high tech exports? You seems to be in a blind denial mode.

*The following list from World Atlas shows the top 25 countries by high tech exports:*

1 China $560,058,333,865.00
2 Germany $193,087,960,652.00
3 United States $147,833,168,925.00
4 Singapore $135,601,531,429.00
5 South Korea $130,460,427,536.00
6 France $112,999,509,750.00
7 Japan $105,075,614,374.00
8 Netherlands $69,039,551,874.00
9 Malaysia $60,371,906,718.00
10 Switzerland $53,350,361,422.00
11 Mexico $45,418,666,690.00
12 Thailand $33,901,233,425.00
13 Italy $29,752,353,792.00
14 Canada $29,136,849,244.00
15 Vietnam $27,819,466,251.00
16 United Kingdom $24,215,736,361.00
17 Ireland $21,914,722,722.00
18 Czech Republic $20,921,357,479.00
19 Philippines $19,644,559,022.00
20 Austria $18,412,394,058.00
21 Sweden $17,024,529,823.00
22 India $16,693,424,357.00
23 Spain $16,346,453,615.00
24 Hungary $14,470,677,145.00
25 Poland $12,052,190,656.00
http://www.industrytap.com/global-high-tech-export-myths-realities/41309

I don't know wether the Indians most popular catchphrase "we have democracy" is the answer for all India's problems or the cause for them.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> But China is the only country in the world did it, that's kind of special,isn't it. India can do this and can do that, that's you always say, we don't say anything before we make that happen and become reality, that's our major difference. And you have demoracy and rule of law? You are the last country to talk about rule of law, don't try to be so funny.



All developed countries have gone through the same transition China did. China is merely the most recent example.

Yes, we do have democracy and rule of law. Privacy was recently made a fundamental right in India. I wonder if you even know what fundamental right means.



> Since when a country's wealth being controlled by a few billionares is a good thing? We are working on equally distribute the wealth, of course we admit that we are far from achieving that goal, rich and poor gap is a big concern in China.



No, you are not equally distributing wealth. China is one of the most unequal countries in the world. And it's even worse when it comes to personal freedom.

Even though your cities now have first class infrastructure and your lower and middle rung bureaucracies have little corruption, your rich are desperately wanting to flee China.

You seem to be a guy in the middle class with limited need for freedom, that's not the case with the rich. The rich need a lot of freedom, and when they no longer get it, they leave.

Dude, you don't even have property rights. Your courts are a joke. And you have a wonderfully oppressive social credit system. Who are you fooling?


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> All developed countries have gone through the same transition China did. China is merely the most recent example.
> 
> Yes, we do have democracy and rule of law. Privacy was recently made a fundamental right in India. I wonder if you even know what fundamental right means.


Rule of law for Dalits? Rampant rape incidents and lynching the minorities? Come on, look at the ground reality just for a second. What I know is China is a much safer country than India and people don't have to worry about their personal safety and can enjoy their hard won prosperous live that most Indians can only dream of, isn't this fundamental?



randomradio said:


> No, you are not equally distributing wealth.


That's what I said, check again, that's why I said that numbers of billionaire is not a good indicator to show the wealthy level of the general public, China has more billionaires than India, but that's not something we are prould of.



randomradio said:


> You seem to be a guy in the middle class with limited need for freedom, that's not the case with the rich. The rich need a lot of freedom, and when they no longer get it, they leave.
> 
> Dude, you don't even have property rights. Your courts are a joke. And you have a wonderfully oppressive social credit system. Who are you fooling?



You know nothing about the Chinese credit system, go and educate yourself about it first.https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-highly-popular-for-now.580986/#post-10849497

Even China is not prefect as no one is, but India is much worse than China in every domain, you should better think about getting your own house in order first. You can smear China and deny every Chinese achievement, but the world is not blind as Indians.

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> Rule of law for Dalits? Rampant rape incidents and lynching the minorities? Come on, look at the ground reality just for a second. What I know is China is a much safer country than India and people don't have to worry about their personal safety and can enjoy their hard won prosperous live that most Indians can only dream of, isn't this fundamental?



Dalits in India are treated much better than the general population by the govt. It's a small minority of people who are sick enough to attack someone else.

India is also considerably safe. Most of the 'attacks' you hear about are primarily disputes related to property and money, and happen mostly in backward places in India. In your country also you will have such attacks. The difference is our media reports it.



> That's what I said, check again, that's why I said that numbers of billionaire is not a good indicator to show the wealthy level of the general public, China has more billionaires than India, but that's not something we are prould of.



Is that what the CCP told you?

You need billionaires and people with the potential and motivation to become billionaires to create jobs. That's how a country grows. The more billionaires a country has, the more prosperous is the country. It's the billionaires who actually pull the economic chains of the country.

CCP doesn't like billionaires, so I'm not surprised Chinese drones like you will toe party line, since that's what you were forced to grow up with.

India was the same case, where every Bollywood movie had a rich guy as the bad guy because that's how socialism was. People are growing their brains here only in the last few decades. But I don't expect China's attitude towards billionaires to change simply because the CCP will not allow it.



haidian said:


> You know nothing about the Chinese credit system, go and educate yourself about it first.https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-highly-popular-for-now.580986/#post-10849497
> 
> Even China is not prefect as no one is, but India is much worse than China in every domain, you should better think about getting your own house in order first. You can smear China and deny every Chinese achievement, but the world is not blind as Indians.



News flash: India has no social credit system. No sane country does.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Dalits in India are treated much better than the general population by the govt. It's a small minority of people who are sick enough to attack someone else.
> 
> India is also considerably safe. Most of the 'attacks' you hear about are primarily disputes related to property and money, and happen mostly in backward places in India. In your country also you will have such attacks. The difference is our media reports it.


Don't fool yourself, everyone knows how you treat lower caste population, what is your caste level by the way? India is safe, is that what your media tells you? India is not famous for law and order around the world, rape and chaos are India's name tag. Guess you don't know, use the internet to find it out.



randomradio said:


> You need billionaires and people with the potential and motivation to become billionaires to create jobs. That's how a country grows. The more billionaires a country has, the more prosperous is the country. It's the billionaires who actually pull the economic chains of the country.
> 
> CCP doesn't like billionaires, so I'm not surprised Chinese drones like you will toe party line, since that's what you were forced to grow up with.
> 
> India was the same case, where every Bollywood movie had a rich guy as the bad guy because that's how socialism was. People are growing their brains here only in the last few decades. But I don't expect China's attitude towards billionaires to change simply because the CCP will not allow it.
> 
> 
> News flash: India has no social credit system. No sane country does.



We don't think having lots of biillinaires is good for a country but that doesn't mean we hate them, China still have the second largest billionaire population in the world, people like Jack Ma are famous both in China and around the world, they are not hated here but too much wealth possessed by a few people is not something to be bragged about as what you did.

India doesn't have many things, that's not a surprise, in North America, if you got bad credit, you'll also have trouble getting loans from a bank. Since we have a system that is supported by the general public, Indians have no right to criticize it cause it is supported by the vast majority of the Chinese population and it is not designed to be used in India.

We don't hate billionaire who work hard to become one, so they flourish in China.

*World’s top 10 startups*
Of the top 10 startups from across the world, all but one are based in China or the US.
https://www.theceomagazine.com/business/start-ups-entrepreneurs/worlds-top-10-startups/

*Asian Countries are Heading Past the US in Gaining Entrepreneurial Edge*
China has gained the most ground, attracting nearly a quarter of global venture capital investment in recent years
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/321310

*Billionaires by country rankings*
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_the_number_of_billionaires*

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> Don't fool yourself, everyone knows how you treat lower caste population, what is your caste level by the way? India is safe, is that what your media tells you? India is not famous for law and order around the world, rape and chaos are India's name tag. Guess you don't know, use the internet to find it out.



Meh. No point talking about it when you don't know anything about this subject.



> We don't think having lots of biillinaires is good for a country but that doesn't mean we hate them, China still have the second largest billionaire population in the world, people like Jack Ma are famous both in China and around the world, they are not hated here but too much wealth possessed by a few people is not something to be bragged about as what you did.



Lol. So you either like billionaires or you don't. Make up your mind, please.



> India doesn't have many things, that's not a surprise, in North America, if you got bad credit, you'll also have trouble getting loans from a bank. Since we have a system that is supported by the general public, Indians have no right to criticize it cause it is supported by the vast majority of the Chinese population and it is not designed to be used in India.



A loan credit system is totally different from social credit system. A credit system is only a system that allows a private or public bank to lend to you, it has nothing to do with the govt.

But the Chinese social credit system is designed to suppress the population. You don't have any idea about the implications of this system, which is not surprising.

CCP will now decide what your score is based on how much time you spend on the internet or what kind of websites you visit or what kind of stuff you shop for. Yeah, good luck to you and your children.



haidian said:


> India doesn't have many things, that's not a surprise, in North America, if you got bad credit, you'll also have trouble getting loans from a bank. Since we have a system that is supported by the general public, Indians have no right to criticize it cause it is supported by the vast majority of the Chinese population and it is not designed to be used in India.



What a joke!

https://www.news.com.au/technology/...e/news-story/6c821cbf15378ab0d3eeb3ec3dc98abf

_Jaywalking, late payments on bills or taxes, buying too much alcohol or speaking out against the government, each cost citizens points.

Other mooted punishable offences include spending too long playing video games, wasting money on frivolous purchases and posting on social media, according to Business Insider.

*“This kind of social control is against the tide of the world. The Chinese people’s eyes are blinded and their ears are blocked. They know little about the world and are living in an illusion.” Liu Hu said.*
_
How fun. You can be denied education, loans and even social media access simply because you made a little mistake. Again, good luck.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Meh. No point talking about it when you don't know anything about this subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol. So you either like billionaires or you don't. Make up your mind, please.
> 
> 
> 
> A loan credit system is totally different from social credit system. A credit system is only a system that allows a private or public bank to lend to you, it has nothing to do with the govt.
> 
> But the Chinese social credit system is designed to suppress the population. You don't have any idea about the implications of this system, which is not surprising.
> 
> CCP will now decide what your score is based on how much time you spend on the internet or what kind of websites you visit or what kind of stuff you shop for. Yeah, good luck to you and your children.
> 
> 
> 
> What a joke!
> 
> https://www.news.com.au/technology/...e/news-story/6c821cbf15378ab0d3eeb3ec3dc98abf
> 
> _Jaywalking, late payments on bills or taxes, buying too much alcohol or speaking out against the government, each cost citizens points.
> 
> Other mooted punishable offences include spending too long playing video games, wasting money on frivolous purchases and posting on social media, according to Business Insider.
> 
> *“This kind of social control is against the tide of the world. The Chinese people’s eyes are blinded and their ears are blocked. They know little about the world and are living in an illusion.” Liu Hu said.*
> _
> How fun. You can be denied education, loans and even social media access simply because you made a little mistake. Again, good luck.


I don't think having too many billionaire is a thing to be bragged about like what you did, but I don't hate them either, is that clear?

Don't talk about something you know nothing about, Chinese social credit system is largely for financial credit and social behavior, https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-highly-popular-for-now.580986/#post-10849497 but still, it won't be used in India and the vast majority of the Chinese population support it so it's very funny to see why you are so upset about it. lol..

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> I don't think having too many billionaire is a thing to be bragged about like what you did, but I don't hate them either, is that clear?



Yes, it is a thing to be bragged about.



> Don't talk about something you know nothing about, Chinese social credit system is largely for financial credit and *social behavior,* https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...-highly-popular-for-now.580986/#post-10849497



Oh, I know very well what I'm talking about.

"Social behaviour"? So you don't mind others telling you how to spend your time and money?



> the vast majority of the Chinese population support it



_This kind of social control is against the tide of the world. The Chinese people’s eyes are blinded and their ears are blocked. They know little about the world and are living in an illusion.” Liu Hu said._



> so it's very funny to see why you are so upset about it. lol..



Of course, it is. If your authoritarian govt is controlling the actions of your countrymen, then you are a danger to the world when the govt wants to be a danger to the world.


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## haidian

randomradio said:


> Yes, it is a thing to be bragged about.


Then China has way more than you have.



randomradio said:


> Oh, I know very well what I'm talking about.
> "Social behaviour"? So you don't mind others telling you how to spend your time and money?


Social behavior is like no raping or women, no pooping in the public, no lynching those who eat beef.



randomradio said:


> Y
> _This kind of social control is against the tide of the world. The Chinese people’s eyes are blinded and their ears are blocked. They know little about the world and are living in an illusion.” Liu Hu said._
> 
> Of course, it is. If your authoritarian govt is controlling the actions of your countrymen, then you are a danger to the world when the govt wants to be a danger to the world.



Who is Liu Hu? Chinese people live in illusion? You are so funny, coming from Supapowa 2012 country, so we are a danger to the world, you want to save the world, now who is living in fantasy?

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## Brainsucker

wanglaokan said:


> those western suckers only wanna see a failed or a divided China.
> 
> those so called concern for human rights are so hypocritical.
> 
> Don't snap aggro here, bro. What does Indians have to do with Xingjiang? Pack up your racist thinking. Don't make the situation more mess if you really want Xingjiang to be good.


did you see Indian spewing bs in this thread....[/QUOTE]

Wang, it's a trap. They just want to make you angry and lure you to make a wrong move. And see, you're lured by him and become an ugly racist that nobody like. Remember, in the world today, Racist is dislike by everybody. maybe you don't mind because of your local culture. But international people care. With your racist comment, international people will see China in a bad way. And that mean, they are success in their strategy to make China bad.

It is the new art of propaganda. Chinese posters shouldn't get lured by them.

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## Mista

haidian said:


> You can deny whatever facts that everyone can see, still, compare to what the Chinese government achieved, India is just a failed state. You jumped into this thread to trash talk China but the fact is China is still way better than you India in every aspect of life. Our government manages our country very well, India is just jealous of us, that's it.
> 
> in less than 3 decades, the Chinese government led China to become the world No.1 in almost every industry and trade, what No.1s did you Indian government get you besides that so called " the world biggest democracy". A hilarious title.



randomradio is the most delusional nationalist in this forum who is so out touch with his fellow countrymen. Other posters troll around but he seem to believe what he says. I had to bring this out every time, and it's always his delusional argument. 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-is-china-still-a-developing-country.562033/#post-10542454

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## randomradio

haidian said:


> Then China has way more than you have.



How is 10 more than 119?



> Social behavior is like no raping or women, no pooping in the public, no lynching those who eat beef.



Rest assured, India won't stop a person from catching a flight just 'cause he pooped in public. You go to jail for the other two things.

CCP will ban you from getting a job if you spend too much time on forums, though. So you should be careful.



> Who is Liu Hu? Chinese people live in illusion? You are so funny, coming from Supapowa 2012 country, so we are a danger to the world, you want to save the world, now who is living in fantasy?



Yes, an entire country full of CCP robots will be a danger to the world.



Mista said:


> randomradio is the most delusional nationalist in this forum who is so out touch with his fellow countrymen. Other posters troll around but he seem to believe what he says. I had to bring this out every time, and it's always his delusional argument.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-is-china-still-a-developing-country.562033/#post-10542454



Wait and watch. You will see it happening in papers in your country. Right now, we are already seeing the changes on the ground.

Here's a good example.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eria-is/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.987a150eaa62







Our poverty rate today is 5%.


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## AndrewJin

Mista said:


> randomradio is the most delusional nationalist in this forum who is so out touch with his fellow countrymen. Other posters troll around but he seem to believe what he says. I had to bring this out every time, and it's always his delusional argument.
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-is-china-still-a-developing-country.562033/#post-10542454


82

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## Sheikh Rauf

randomradio said:


> Silly propaganda created by the Pakistanis.
> 
> Terrorists had taken control of the temple and had a lot of hostages. The one who ran the rescue op was a Sikh himself.
> 
> 
> 
> Too late for that.


Why they heck you call on that michigan phone number and confirm yourself if it was not genocide by indian army if not then Indra gandhi was killed by Pakistanies who happens to live in india.

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## haidian

*Xinjiang Kyrgyz village feature tourism





*


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## Royal Blue007

haidian said:


> *Xinjiang village feature tourism
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


Is it Samosa ?


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## haidian

Xinjiang locals now learned that the quickest way to get rich is to rip off those dumb rich tourists from coastal eastern China.



Royal Blue007 said:


> Is it Samosa ?


Don't know, check the video at 10:40 and see how they are made.

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## Royal Blue007

haidian said:


> Xinjiang locals now learned that the quickest way to get rich is to rip off those dumb rich tourists from coastal eastern China.
> 
> 
> Don't know, check the video at 10:40 and see how they are made.


Definitely looks like Samosa


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## haidian



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## A ka li

Pastoral pastures, fruits and fragrances, all ethnic groups united, singing and dancing, making people feel like they are there

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## haidian

Only China can take on grand projects like this one.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Very good initiative, scheme for everyone irrespective of religion.
True investment in human development.

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## haidian

*Full transcript: Interview with Xinjiang government chief on counterterrorism, vocational education and training in Xinjiang*
Source: Xinhua| 2018-10-16 11:26:24|Editor: Xiang Bo





Shohrat Zakir, chairman of the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, speaks on the sideline of the National People's Congress in Beijing, China. (AP Photo/Ng Han Guan, File)


BEIJING, Oct. 16 (Xinhua) -- Correspondents at Xinhua News Agency have recently interviewed Shohrat Zakir, chairman of the Government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, on counterterrorism and the vocational education and training program in the region. The following is the full transcript of the interview:

Question: Would you please brief us on the current situation in Xinjiang, given that under the influence of international terrorism and religious extremism, the number of violent terrorist attacks had been on the rise in parts of the region over a period of time?

Answer: Since the 1990s, the "three evil forces" (terrorism, extremism and separatism) in China and abroad have plotted, organized and conducted thousands of violent terrorist attacks including bombings, assassinations, poisoning, arson, assaults, unrest and riots, causing the deaths of a large number of innocent people and hundreds of police officers, as well as immeasurable property damage. The horrific crimes of terrorists not only severely undermined the stable and peaceful order and the atmosphere of solidarity and progress of Xinjiang, but also trampled upon the essential human rights of people of all ethnic groups in the region, such as their rights to life, health, property and development. People of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang were enraged and shared hatred toward the terrorist crimes. A child of a Uygur police officer who died in the line of duty wrote me a letter. In emotional words, the letter reads: "My father sacrificed his life on the counterterrorism frontline. His upright personality will always inspire me. I hope that the Party and government can unwaveringly root out terrorism so that no children grow up without their fathers."

Facing complex and grave circumstances as well as the pressing anti-terrorism desire of the people, the Chinese government has resolutely taken measures in preventing and combating violent terrorist crimes in accordance with the law. In the past few years, under the firm leadership of the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Committee with Comrade Xi Jinping at the core, Xinjiang has thoroughly carried out the policies of the CPC Central Committee on governing Xinjiang, unswervingly worked for the general goal of ensuring social stability and long-term security and made major achievements in fighting against terrorism and safeguarding stability. Now Xinjiang is generally stable, with the situation under control and improving. In the past 21 months, no violent terrorist attacks have occurred and the number of criminal cases, including those endangering public security, has dropped significantly. Public security has notably improved with religious extremism effectively contained, while people are now feeling more secure. We have laid a good foundation for completely solving the deeply-rooted problems that affect the region's long-term stability.

Xinjiang has started to enjoy the dividend of effective counterterrorism efforts with its economy steadily growing, people's livelihood improving, and overall progress being made in all respects. In 2017, the region had a 7.6 percent growth in GDP while the per capita disposable income of urban and rural residents increased by 8.1 percent and 8.5 percent, respectively. Tourism boomed in 2017 when the region registered more than 100 million trips by domestic and international tourists, a year-on-year growth of 32.4 percent. In the first nine months of this year, Xinjiang has already recorded 132 million trips by tourists from home and abroad, a 40 percent year-on-year increase. Many people who have visited Xinjiang used social media to extol the region's progress: Today's Xinjiang is not only beautiful but also safe and stable. No matter where they are or at what time of the day, people are no longer afraid of going out, shopping, dining and traveling.

Question: It has been reported that Xinjiang has launched a vocational education and training program in a bid to facilitate its efforts to counter terrorism and extremism. What's the thinking behind this move?

Answer: Terrorism and extremism go against human civilization and are the common enemy of the international community. Countering terrorism and eradicating extremism is a global issue as well as a global headache. Over the years, many countries have pursued approaches to countering terrorism and extremism according to their own conditions and have made headway in this regard. The international community has also realized that terrorism and extremism are very hard to root out and can easily resurge. Drawing on the anti-terrorism experience of the international community, China has actively responded to the UN General Assembly's resolution on Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy, and has been committed to addressing conditions conducive to the spread of terrorism, while preventing and combating terrorism. Based on its realities, China has combined fighting and preventing terrorism with an emphasis on prevention. China has been actively exploring and applying preventive measures in countering terrorism and extremism.

Based on its own realities, Xinjiang has given equal importance to fighting and preventing terrorism, and sought to combine the fight against violent terrorist crimes with the protection of human rights. On one hand, Xinjiang has put emphasis on strictly countering a small number of violent terrorist crimes according to law, and spared no efforts in protecting the basic human rights of the citizens from the harm of terrorism and extremism. On the other hand, Xinjiang has also stressed addressing the root cause of terrorism, and moved to bring around, educate and save the majority of those who committed petty crimes, through assistance and education, to prevent them from becoming victims of terrorism and extremism.

Today, despite the significant progress Xinjiang has made, countering terrorism and extremism is still a long-standing, complicated and serious issue and calls for high alert. In particular, the four prefectures in southern Xinjiang were threatened by terrorism and seriously influenced by the spread of religious extremism in the past. Some residents there have a limited command of the country's common language and a limited sense and knowledge of the law. They often have difficulties in finding employment due to limited vocational skills. This has led to a low material-basis for residents to live and work there, making them vulnerable to the instigation and coercion of terrorism and extremism. There is still a long way to go for southern Xinjiang to eradicate the environment and soil of terrorism and religious extremism.

Based on the above-mentioned situation, Xinjiang has launched a vocational education and training program according to the law. Its purpose is to get rid of the environment and soil that breeds terrorism and religious extremism and stop violent terrorist activities from happening.

Question: Could you tell us more about the legal basis and relevant procedure of the vocational education and training program?

Answer: In recent years, the Chinese government has accelerated the legislation of its anti-terrorism efforts to strictly prevent and combat violent terrorist crimes according to law.

The National People's Congress passed the Anti-Terrorism Law in 2015 and the Ninth Amendment to the Criminal Law, while the Supreme People's Procuratorate, together with the Supreme People's Court, the Ministry of Public Security, and the Ministry of Justice, in 2018 issued guidelines on the application of law in cases involving terrorism and extremism, which have improved and clarified the definitions of terrorist crimes, criteria for conviction, case handling procedures, and working mechanisms. Together with the Criminal Procedure Law, these laws and regulations have formed a relatively sound Chinese anti-terrorism legal framework. While strictly following the Constitution, the law on regional ethnic autonomy and the legislation law, Xinjiang has taken its local conditions into consideration and formulated the region's enforcement measures of the anti-terrorism law, de-extremization regulations, among others. These laws and regulations are subject to revisions to keep them up to date.

In practice, when dealing with those who have been instigated, coerced, or lured into terrorist or extremist activities, or people who only committed minor offenses when involved in terrorist and extremist activities, Xinjiang combines punishment with leniency and gives prominence to their rehabilitation and redemption in accordance with the Criminal Law, the Criminal Procedure Law, the Anti-Terrorism Law and other relevant laws and regulations. As for most people who are influenced by terrorism and extremism, those suspected of minor criminal offenses but do not have to be subject to penalties or can be exempted from criminal punishment, Xinjiang has provided them with free vocational training through vocational education institutions to improve their ability in commanding the country's common language, acquiring legal knowledge and vocational skills, among others. In that way, Xinjiang can better guard against the infiltration of terrorism and extremism. The detailed procedures include, on the premise that training goals, methods, program completion standards and testing methods are clearly identified, that* vocational training institutions sign an agreement with the trainees. The institutions will then conduct the free programs through various forms such as collective courses, boarding schools and hands-on training. The trainees will be issued certificates of completion after they meet the required standards.*

Question: Could you please elaborate on the main content of the vocational training?

Answer: Currently, Xinjiang has established a training model with professional vocational training institutions as the platform, learning the country's common language, legal knowledge, vocational skills, along with de-extremization education,* as the main content, with achieving employment as the key direction.* The vocational training institutions have set up departments of teaching, management, medical care, logistics and security, and allocated a corresponding number of faculty, class advisors, medical, catering, logistics and security staff.

In the process of learning and training, the trainees will advance from learning the country's common language, to learning legal knowledge and vocational skills. Firstly, the trainees will take learning the country's common language as the basis to improve their communication abilities, gain modern science knowledge and enhance their understanding of Chinese history, culture and national conditions. The teaching follows standardized plans, textbooks, materials and systems. The trainees are taught in various methods suited to their literacy to raise their abilities to use the country's common language as soon as possible. Secondly, the learning of legal knowledge is taken as a key part of cultivating the trainees' awareness of the nation, citizenship and rule of law. Legal experts are hired to lecture on the Constitution, the criminal law and the civil law, etc., and judges, prosecutors and lawyers are invited to teach the criminal law, the law on public security administration, the anti-terrorism law, the marriage law, the education law and Xinjiang's de-extremization regulations. Thirdly, *vocational learning is taken as a key way to help trainees find employment. Courses on clothing and footwear making, food processing, electronic product assembly, typesetting and printing, hairdressing and e-commerce have been set up to suit local social needs and job market. Multi-skill training is provided to trainees who have the desire and capability to learn, so that they acquire one to two vocational skills upon graduation. Businesses in garment making, mobile phone assembly and ethnic cuisine catering are arranged to offer trainees practical opportunities. In the meantime, they are paid basic incomes and a bonus. The mechanism has taken shape in which the trainees can "learn, practice and earn money."*

In daily life, vocational institutions and schools strictly implement the spirit of laws and regulations, including the Constitution and religious affairs regulations, and respect and protect the customs and habits of various ethnic groups and their beliefs in diet and daily life. Faculties of the institutions and schools also try their best to ensure and meet the trainees' needs in study, life, and entertainment on the basis of free education. The cafeteria prepares nutritious free diets, and the dormitories are fully equipped with radio, TV, air conditioning, bathroom and shower. Indoor and outdoor sports venues for basketball, volleyball and table tennis have been built, along with reading rooms, computer labs, film screening rooms, as well as performance venues such as small auditoriums and open-air stages. Various activities such as contests on speech, writing, dancing, singing and sports are organized. Many trainees have said that they were previously affected by extremist thought and had never participated in such kinds of art and sports activities, and now they have realized that life can be so colorful.

Moreover, the vocational institutions and schools pay high attention to the trainees' mental health and helped them solve problems in life. They not only provide professional psychological counseling services, but also duly deal with complaints from the trainees and their families. All this shows that the management of the vocational institutions and schools are people-oriented.

Question: Could you please elaborate on the progress of the vocational training?

Answer: Through vocational training, most trainees have been able to reflect on their mistakes and see clearly the essence and harm of terrorism and religious extremism. They have notably enhanced national consciousness, civil awareness, awareness of the rule of law and the sense of community of the Chinese nation. They have also been able to better tell right from wrong and resist the infiltration of extremist thought. They have become more proactive in shaking off poverty, and becoming better off. It has been a common practice among them to expect and pursue a modern life. They are confident about the future. "I didn't understand the country's common language, nor did I know about the laws. I wouldn't even have known that I had made mistakes. But the government didn't give me up. It has actively saved and assisted me, giving me free food, accommodation and education. Now I have made great progress in many aspects. I will cherish this opportunity and become a person useful to the country and society," a trainee said.

On the whole, the following achievements have been made. Firstly, the trainees have gained progress in mastering the country's common language. In the past, many of them had difficulties in listening, speaking and reading. They now are able to basically understand and use it in communication, which has broadened their sources to acquire modern knowledge and information. Many trainees said they were affected by religious extremism and failed to understand the significance of bilingual education. They said they had thought of merely sticking to their own ethnic language as the way to preserve their ethnic culture, so they refused to learn the country's common language. Now they have realized they should not only learn the common language well, but also foreign languages to follow modernization trends.

Secondly, the trainees have been increasing their awareness of the rule of law. Affected or coerced by religious extremist thought, many of the trainees acted under "religion discipline" or "family discipline" that was distorted or concocted by extremists. Many trainees have now realized that they are firstly citizens of the nation, and their behavior is both protected and regulated by law. They have truly understood what is legitimate and what is not. They now also know how to turn to the law for help. "As a divorced woman, I am raising a son and a daughter with the help of my parents, living in poverty. I did not know that my ex-husband had the obligation to raise the children, too," said a female trainee, who is now able to use the law to claim overdue alimony from her ex-husband.

Thirdly, the trainees' vocational skills have been enhanced. Many trainees had no vocational skills before. Even though they wanted to get a job, it was hard for them to find one. By learning vocational skills and knowledge, and participating in practical training, the trainees have now mastered preliminary practical skills. It has gradually become realistic for them to increase their incomes, get rid of poverty and acquire wealth. "Through practicing vocational skills, I can earn 1,500 yuan per month now. My income has increased a lot and I have become the main support for my family. I can stand tall and start receiving praise from my elders. My wife has become more considerate. My kids are proud of me. I have regained respect and confidence," a trainee said.

As a result of the vocational education and training, the social environment of Xinjiang has seen notable changes, with a healthy atmosphere on the rise and improper practices declining. There has been a growing trend to pursue modern scientific and technological knowledge and etiquette; the dissemination of religious extremism is resisted consciously; communication, exchanges and integration among various ethnic groups are closer; public support for countering terrorism, maintaining stability and de-extremization is stronger; and people of all ethnic groups are full of hope for better lives.

Question: After your introduction, we have got a clear and comprehensive understanding of the work of vocational education and training. Would you please give us some information on the future plan of vocational education and training?

Answer: Facts have proven that vocational education and training fits the reality of current efforts in countering terrorism, maintaining stability and eradicating extremism in Xinjiang. It is an effective measure of Xinjiang to explore ways to remove the environment and soil of terrorism and extremism, and prevent violent terrorist crimes. Since its launch, the work has won high recognition and sincere support from people of all ethnic groups across Xinjiang. It has played an important role in achieving social stability and enduring peace and security in Xinjiang, and served as a positive exploration and constructive attempt for the international community in countering terrorism and eradicating extremism.

According to feedback from the vocational education and training institutions, some trainees have come close to or reached the completion standard agreed in the training agreements. They are receiving course-completion tests in an orderly manner. They are expected to complete their courses successfully by the end of this year. We are busy with their employment arrangements. Meanwhile, Xinjiang will carry out programs to invite investments that suit the vocational skills of trainees. By bringing more businesses to Xinjiang, we will create jobs and alleviate poverty. We will try to achieve a seamless connection between school teaching and social employment, so that after finishing their courses, the trainees will be able to find jobs and earn a well-off life.

Next, Xinjiang will further implement the strategies and policies on the region, set by the CPC Central Committee with Comrade Xi Jinping at the core, adhere to the people-centered philosophy of development, properly handle the relations between stability and development, and concentrate on the three major tasks: construction of the core zone of the Silk Road Economic Belt, the implementation of the rural vitalization strategy and the development of the tourism industry. It will also take the four prefectures in southern Xinjiang as the main battlefield to fight against poverty with targeted measures to ensure that by 2020, all rural residents living below the poverty line are lifted out of poverty. Xinjiang will also work to see that people of all ethnic groups have a stronger sense of fulfillment, happiness and security, and that the gains of development benefit people of all ethnic groups in a fair way.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-10/16/c_137535821.htm

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## haidian

*Xinjiang "Re education camps"
















*

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## GHALIB

good facelift exercise .


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## haidian

Xinjiang hasn't heard of violence and terrorist acts for a long time and tourism is booming, one third of its GDP comes from tourism revenue, can anyone tell me another place on this planet which is repressed and brutalised while enjoying booming tourist industry? Facts speak louder than words.

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## GHALIB

haidian said:


> Xinjiang hasn't heard of violence and terrorist acts for a long time and tourism is booming, one third of its GDP comes from tourism revenue, can anyone tell me another place on this planet which is repressed and brutalised while enjoying booming tourist industry? Facts speak louder than words.



let any independent agency say it .


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## haidian

GHALIB said:


> let any independent agency say it .


Say what? Which part of that statement you don't believe? or use youtube to see tons of travelling vlog videos posted by foreigners and see how safe and modern Xinjiang is now, Urumqi now can even make New York look like a third world city.

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## haidian

I honestly wish I were a Uighur sometimes.

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## TaiShang

Photo taken on Oct. 9, 2018 shows a night view of Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Province. (Xinhua/Guan Tianyu)


























http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1017/c90000-9509004-6.html

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## TaiShang

http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1017/c90000-9509004-12.html

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## haidian

*Xinjiang "Re education camps" graduation and occupational qualification certificate awarding ceremony*

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## Globenim

GHALIB said:


> let any independent agency say it .


Lets wait for a single independent agency bring foward legitmate charges against China in first place.

All the baseless allegations and lies perpetuated by bandwagoning political driven sympatisers of terrorism like you or the rogue Trump regime and his financially and politcally dependent proxies falsely claiming themself as independent or claiming to speak in name or on behalf of independent agencies never making any such statements, are just angry farts in the wind no innocent person needs to bother with. Its not up to criminals and envious bystanders to decide who needs to let himself get investigated for no reason.

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## A ka li

[QUOTE =“Roybot，帖子：10832148，会员：35302”]游客可以自己在新疆旅行，还是必须由导游陪伴？[/ QUOTE]
There is no problem for one person, people are very friendly there.

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## A ka li

Without personal experience, there is no right to speak.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

this is a very Good journey log,I would like to share it with my friends!

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## oprih

Looks like a city from a highly developed country. Meanwhile chicago and portland looks like a warzone in a third world country.

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## shadows888

TaiShang said:


> http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1017/c90000-9509004-12.html



Looks like a giant concentration camp - nytimes probability

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## 艹艹艹

Many of us have gone to Xinjiang. They say that there are great opportunities for development.

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## HariPrasad

TaiShang said:


> Photo taken on Oct. 9, 2018 shows a night view of Urumqi, capital of northwest China's Xinjiang Province. (Xinhua/Guan Tianyu)
> 
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1017/c90000-9509004-6.html


 Looks beautiful.

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## haidian

The west says that China holds 1 million Uyghurs in concentration camps, I million is about the size fo Urumqi, maybe China holds all of them here, otherwise there will be no facilities big enough in Xinjiang to hold those many people.

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## Gaber

Most of the news we read about xinjiang in our media are negative, it is chinese member duty here in the pdf to elaborate what is really happen in there...


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## haidian

Gaber said:


> Most of the news we read about xinjiang in our media are negative, it is chinese member duty here in the pdf to elaborate what is really happen in there...


Yes, just imagine, if you have an earthquake proof spacious house built by the government to live, your kids enjoy 15 years from kindergarten to high school free education with free school meals free daily dairy and medicare, you are subsidized by the government for everything in your daily life, would you rise up against this government?

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## TaiShang

long_ said:


> Many of us have gone to Xinjiang. They say that there are great opportunities for development.



In fact, in terms of foreign direct investment (FDI) in 2018 first half, Western China, including Xinjiang Province, received more of it than the rest of the country.

This tells a lot about the level of development, confidence, and future prospects.

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## haidian

Many Indians here always compare Xinjiang with Kashmir, which is a very underdeveloped international disputed land prevalent with daily violence and social disturbance. It's the most absurd comparison that anyone can ever make.

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## haidian

*Doctors Bring Young Patient Back to Life After 15 Days Rescue Battle in Xinjiang*
*



*

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## haidian

Over 40 doctors worked in turns to save her life and some doctcor flew in from a coastal city thousands of miles away to join the rescue... She just can not die, she owes so much to this rescue team, she can not let them down.

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> Many Indians here always compare Xinjiang with Kashmir, which is a very underdeveloped international disputed land prevalent with daily violence and social disturbance. It's the most absurd comparison that anyone can ever make.



Not surprising.

Indians even compared Shanghai to Mumbai. 

Next, they will compare Indian rail with China's HSR.


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## rambro

Gaber said:


> Most of the news we read about xinjiang in our media are negative, it is chinese member duty here in the pdf to elaborate what is really happen in there...


It is more developed than kuala lumpur for sure.


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## powastick

rambro said:


> It is more developed than kuala lumpur for sure.


No way. KL win in every metrics I'm pretty sure.


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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> Not surprising.
> 
> Indians even compared Shanghai to Mumbai.
> 
> Next, they will compare Indian rail with China's HSR.


India has a long way to go to reach Guizhou in 2018, one of China's poorest provinces.

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## haidian

*Dilraba 迪丽热巴 Me and My Home town at Xinjiang 
Dilraba announced to join the program "Me and My Home town at Xinjiang " initiated by the Chinese communist youth league and Sina Weibo.




*

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang women gain respect and self-recognition*

By Liu Xin in Kashi Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/24


*Extremists forbid the use of condom, don’t care about the children: locals*






Three female dancers in the night market in Hotan. Photo: Fan Lingzhi/GT


*The ongoing de-extremism efforts in Northwest China's Xinjiang Province and the launch of vocational education and training centers have helped reduce discrimination against women, and by playing a more active role in family and society, they have gained self-respect.*

With the promotion of vocational skills, national laws and regulations and de-extremism education, *more residents and trainees in Xinjiang begin to realize that women should not be treated as the "personal possessions" of their husbands, *according to officials reached by the Global Times in Xinjiang.

*Some husbands influenced by extremism would forbid their wives from working, force them to wear robes and cover their faces, or even beat their wives.* Instead of obeying laws and regulations, they used distorted extremist doctrines to guide their life, the Global Times learned from a training center in Kashi.

Many female trainees at vocational education and training centers in Hotan and Kashi shared with the Global Times their stories of living a depressing life as victims of extremism.

*Gulbahar Arken, a 24-year-old trainee from the training center in Kashi, was forced, when she was 15, by her father to "marry" an illegal imam, who was 40 years older.*

"*I was his 7th wife… at that time*, I was too young to get registered with the man in the local civil affairs bureau."

*"My father, who is influenced by extremism, said that by marrying this man, I can go to heaven,"* Gulbahar said.

She said *she was beaten by the man with the handle of shovel and was forced to learn distorted religious extremism doctrines.* She tried to run away several times but failed, with her father sending her back to the man.

Gulbahar finally managed to "get divorced" from the man after the man said "Talaq" three times to her [Triple Talaq, a type of instant divorce in Islam]. But her life seemed destroyed.

Triple Talaq or Islamic instant divorce means when "Talaq" is repeated three times by the husband in a Muslim family, then the couple will be formally divorced.

*"The best time of my life has gone miserably and I did not and would never understand why my father did this to me,"* Gulbahar said.

Gulbahar said she likes life in the center and is trying to make up by learning vocational skills, which she missed in her previous life.






Women chat on a street corner in Kashi on October 23. Photo: Fan Lingzhi/GT

*Removing restrictions*

The practice of men asking women to wear only robes has been stopped and the situation of banning them from working has also changed.

Patigul Abaydulla, 26, is now working with her husband in a vocational education and training center in Hotan.

She told the Global Times on Tuesday that* she had to cover herself thoroughly with a veil and robe at the request of her husband, who was influenced by extremism.* The only income for the family of four members was her husband's earnings as a farmer and as a part-time driver.

She said that her husband has changed a lot after coming to the training center. "He has become considerate and has started to respect my parents… and I now earn at least 1,500 yuan a month. Family life is getting better," she said.

*"It is painful for women to cover our beauty… why should we do this?" Madina Akbar, 19, who was once pressured by peers to wear a robe,* told the Global Times.

Madina said she was once called a heretic when she wore short sleeves and a skirt when shopping in a bazaar in Urumqi in 2015.

*Live for herself*

Extremists also forbid the use of condoms *but few of them would take care of the children*, local people said.

The Global Times learned that girls in Xinjiang, especially in rural areas, usually get married at an early age and some would lie about their age to get registered with the local civil affairs bureaus.

"*Compared with girls in other places, especially in the metropolis, the youth of many girls here is too short. They would soon be bound to the family and children and have little consideration of themselves,*" Madina told the Global Times.

Many trainees at the centers told the Global Times that they could find jobs and make money using the vocational skills they have acquired, which help them find renewed value in life, gain self-recognition and earn family respect.

Male trainees reached by the Global Times also said that they respect women and admire their contributions to the family.

For women who choose to stay at home to take care of the family, their lives have also been enriched.

Li Fang, director of the women's association in Xinjiang who is stationed in Naizhen town in Kashi, told the Global Times on Tuesday that they have evening schools at the residential communities for women and started women's associations in villages to communicate with them.

*"Mothers play a crucial role in the families and their mental state and educational level would have a greater influence on their children's development,"* Li said.

She noted that *more women are joining the evening school to learn Putonghua*, which also helps enhance their children's proficiency in it.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1124253.shtml

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## A ka li

TaiShang said:


> Sounds like a great trip. No wonder Xinjiang has become a hot tourist spot over the years.
> 
> Share more images, if possible.


Forgot to put more photos.



haidian said:


> I plan to take one month off and take a road trip to Xinjiang from Beijing next summer.


Great plan



haidian said:


> I plan to take one month off and take a road trip to Xinjiang from Beijing next summer.


Great plan

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## A ka li

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> this is a very Good journey log,I would like to share it with my friends!





Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> this is a very Good journey log,I would like to share it with my friends!


Thanks a lot


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## Feng Leng

I want to sign up for the camps too!

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## TaiShang

Feng Leng said:


> I want to sign up for the camps too!



It is incredible how the Western neo-fascist media spins stories on countries which their regimes consider as enemy.

No wonder Trump does not trust the Western media.

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## haidian

*Xinjiang Arts Institute*

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## M.R.9

China is accused of locking up hundreds of thousands of Muslims without trial in its western region of Xinjiang.

The government denies the claims, saying people willingly attend special “vocational schools” which combat “terrorism and religious extremism”.

Now a BBC investigation has found important new evidence of the reality.







On 12 July 2015 a satellite swung over the rolling deserts and oasis cities of China's vast far west.

One of the images it captured that day just shows a patch of empty, untouched, ashen-grey sand.

It seems an unlikely place to start an investigation into one of the most pressing human rights concerns of our age.

But less than three years later, on 22 April 2018, a satellite photo of that same piece of desert showed something new.

A massive, highly secure compound had materialised.



It is enclosed with a 2km-long exterior wall punctuated by 16 guard towers.







The first reports that China was operating a system of internment camps for Muslims in Xinjiang began to emerge last year.

The satellite photograph was discovered by researchers looking for evidence of that system on the global mapping software, Google Earth.

It places the site just outside the small town of Dabancheng, about an hour's drive from the provincial capital, Urumqi.






To try to avoid the suffocating police scrutiny that awaits every visiting journalist, we land at Urumqi airport in the early hours of the morning.

But by the time we arrive in Dabancheng we're being followed by at least five cars, containing an assortment of uniformed and plain-clothes police officers and government officials.

It's already clear that our plan to visit a dozen suspected camps over the course of the next few days is not going to be easy.

s we drive up the wide approach road we know that sooner or later the convoy behind is going to try to stop us.

While still a few hundred metres away, we see something unexpected.

The wide expanse of dusty ground, shown on the satellite image to the east of the site, is empty no more.

In its place, a huge extension project is taking shape-


Like a mini-city sprouting from the desert and bristling with cranes, are row upon row of giant, grey buildings - all of them four storeys high.

With our cameras rolling we try to capture the extent of the construction, but before we can go much further one of the police cars swings into action.

Our car is stopped - we're told to turn off the cameras and to leave.





But we've discovered something of significance - a huge amount of extra activity that has so far gone unnoticed by the outside world.

In remote parts of the world, Google Earth images can take months or years to update.

Other public sources of satellite photography however - like the European Space Agency's Sentinel database - provide much more frequent images, although they're of a much lower resolution.

It is here that we find what we are looking for.




ZedRef- BBC

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## Indus Pakistan

M.R.9 said:


> The government


Relax man. BBC is not infallible. They made a mistake. The site is the Chinese Area 51 and thus highly restricted zone.

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## WarKa DaNG

Just Chill, Pakistan is only talking about muslims in Palestine, Kashmir, Burma, Syria etc but not of china because they are bhai bhai

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## Lincoln

WarKa DaNG said:


> Just Chill, Pakistan is only talking about muslims in Palestine, Kashmir, Burma, Syria etc but not of china because they are bhai bhai



Amazing investigation. More words, less images, rather words that they tried to get images, but you know that's the equivalent of images anyways.

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## M.R.9

WarKa DaNG said:


> Just Chill, Pakistan is only talking about muslims in Palestine, Kashmir, Burma, Syria etc but not of china because they are bhai bhai



bro- u just told my heart s talk . zajak Allah .



Indus Pakistan said:


> Relax man. BBC is not infallible. They made a mistake. The site is the Chinese Area 51 and thus highly restricted zone.



BBc i say them Bastards Broadcasting Corporation. Even infornt of many BBC high Aythority i did wash on them. BUt brother- One thing i optimize and that is they provide false news. But - What Info they deliver 20 % is okay . not error. And you or i cant deny the oprasion of our muslim brother and sisters In china.

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## Indus Pakistan

M.R.9 said:


> And you or i cant deny the oprasion of our muslim brother and sisters In china.


I am sorry there is no proof. You said 80% is lies, well this report makes part of that 80%. In fact anything BBC or Western media reports is lies on China. The only reliable source for news on China is CGTN and CCTV. For a Muslim China is probably one of the best countries to be born in - it provides better education, better health, better life chances then any South Asian country including even Pakistan. In fact I am [secretly] jealous of Chinese Muslims.

And as I said earlier I have reliable information that the facelity BBC investingated is PLAAF base housing Chinese equivalent of the highly secret Area 51 in USA.


_Ps. Our great PM Imran Khan is due to visit our 'ironcad' friend soon and we look forward to even closer economic and military cooperation to the grief of Indians._

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## BHarwana

M.R.9 said:


> bro- u just told my heart s talk . zajak Allah .
> 
> 
> 
> BBc i say them Bastards Broadcasting Corporation. Even infornt of many BBC high Aythority i did wash on them. BUt brother- One thing i optimize and that is they provide false news. But - What Info they deliver 20 % is okay . not error. And you or i cant deny the oprasion of our muslim brother and sisters In china.



Bro you talk about Chinese but you never raised the issue of how Hissana's govt brutally beaten the hell out of poor students who protested for road safety. Seriously what happened to those students was way worse than what happened to anyone else.

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## Mamluk

WarKa DaNG said:


> Just Chill, Pakistan is only talking about muslims in Palestine, Kashmir, Burma, Syria etc but not of china because they are bhai bhai



No we are not talking about Burma or Syria.

Kashmir is our land and Palestine gets only lip service.

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## M.R.9

BHarwana said:


> Bro you talk about Chinese but you never raised the issue of how Hissana's govt brutally beaten the hell out of poor students who protested for road safety. Seriously what happened to those students was way worse than what happened to anyone else.



Absurdity Correct brother- But as you know , we defence people , stay under Chain of command. What Hasina did , she hv to pay . She killed my C/O , colonel Gulzar and my many seniors in Pilkhana. What hasina did wid students-- That is another edition to send him hell directly


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## Indus Pakistan

@xxx[{::::::::::::::::::> said:


> No we are not talking about Burma or Syria.
> 
> Kashmir is our land and Palestine gets only lip service.


Yipee yee. To each their own. You see anybody crying about Kashmir or condemning India? Not a fcukin chance. And last time I checked Kashmiri's are as Muslim as Palestinians, Syrians or Uighurs. Charity begins at home. We stand by Kashmiri's. We stand by China ever cognizant that she is* one* of the few solid allies we have. Our entire military now depends on China. Our economic and military future belongs with China. We are a important cog in the future Chinese geostragic global architecture. 

And you think we are going to screw all that because of a few jihadis? We already have one superpower baying for our blood. Are we going rile another emerging superpower?

Not fcukin cnuts .......

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## Nan Yang

M.R.9 said:


> China is accused of locking up hundreds of thousands of Muslims without trial in its western region of Xinjiang.
> 
> The government denies the claims, saying people willingly attend special “vocational schools” which combat “terrorism and religious extremism”.
> 
> Now a BBC investigation has found important new evidence of the reality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12 July 2015 a satellite swung over the rolling deserts and oasis cities of China's vast far west.
> 
> One of the images it captured that day just shows a patch of empty, untouched, ashen-grey sand.
> 
> It seems an unlikely place to start an investigation into one of the most pressing human rights concerns of our age.
> 
> But less than three years later, on 22 April 2018, a satellite photo of that same piece of desert showed something new.
> 
> A massive, highly secure compound had materialised.
> 
> 
> 
> It is enclosed with a 2km-long exterior wall punctuated by 16 guard towers.
> 
> View attachment 507332
> View attachment 507332
> The first reports that China was operating a system of internment camps for Muslims in Xinjiang began to emerge last year.
> 
> The satellite photograph was discovered by researchers looking for evidence of that system on the global mapping software, Google Earth.
> 
> It places the site just outside the small town of Dabancheng, about an hour's drive from the provincial capital, Urumqi.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To try to avoid the suffocating police scrutiny that awaits every visiting journalist, we land at Urumqi airport in the early hours of the morning.
> 
> But by the time we arrive in Dabancheng we're being followed by at least five cars, containing an assortment of uniformed and plain-clothes police officers and government officials.
> 
> It's already clear that our plan to visit a dozen suspected camps over the course of the next few days is not going to be easy.
> 
> s we drive up the wide approach road we know that sooner or later the convoy behind is going to try to stop us.
> 
> While still a few hundred metres away, we see something unexpected.
> 
> The wide expanse of dusty ground, shown on the satellite image to the east of the site, is empty no more.
> 
> In its place, a huge extension project is taking shape-
> 
> 
> Like a mini-city sprouting from the desert and bristling with cranes, are row upon row of giant, grey buildings - all of them four storeys high.
> 
> With our cameras rolling we try to capture the extent of the construction, but before we can go much further one of the police cars swings into action.
> 
> Our car is stopped - we're told to turn off the cameras and to leave.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we've discovered something of significance - a huge amount of extra activity that has so far gone unnoticed by the outside world.
> 
> In remote parts of the world, Google Earth images can take months or years to update.
> 
> Other public sources of satellite photography however - like the European Space Agency's Sentinel database - provide much more frequent images, although they're of a much lower resolution.
> 
> It is here that we find what we are looking for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ZedRef- BBC


And in other recent news .......
*14 million people in Yemen face 'imminent and great big famine'*
Clashes have blocked access to a facility where grain is milled that could feed 3.7 million people for a month, according to the U.N. humanitarian chief.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna923756

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## denel

WarKa DaNG said:


> Just Chill, Pakistan is only talking about muslims in Palestine, Kashmir, Burma, Syria etc but not of china because they are bhai bhai


Yes, they dont even talk of Burma. Shed crocodile tears on kashmir or palestine; the other moslems dont count in their eyes.

Duplicitious hipocracy. Chinese govt is hell bent on going againt uighurs and no denying it. even halal is being cracked down and worship being disallowed for the youngsters. Not to mention what they are doing against the Hui

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## Yankee-stani

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yipee yee. To each their own. You see anybody crying about Kashmir or condemning India? Not a fcukin chance. And last time I checked Kashmiri's are as Muslim as Palestinians, Syrians or Uighurs. Charity begins at home. We stand by Kashmiri's. We stand by China ever cognizant that she is* one* of the few solid allies we have. Our entire military now depends on China. Our economic and military future belongs with China. We are a important cog in the future Chinese geostragic global architecture.
> 
> And you think we are going to screw all that because of a few jihadis? We already have one superpower baying for our blood. Are we going rile another emerging superpower?
> 
> Not fcukin cnuts .......





I think most of the fourm members never met a Uighur in real life yet think they know more about Xinjiang or whatever as for those "false piety" diaspora dudes who shed "fake tears" over muh Syria mu Uigurs and muh Rohningya will just watch Western TV News and just get back to their echo chambers and not do anything about it

As for Arabs and the Gulf ones did they ever care for Kashmir or Pakistan besides using Pakistan for cheap labor and soilders

Most Uighurs and Central Asians are not burka clad or beard wielding folks anyways so Gulf Arab wannabes can f..ck off @Indus Pakistan

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## Indus Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> Most Uighurs and Central Asians are not burka clad or beard wielding folks anyways so Gulf Arab wannabes can f..ck off


Bingo. Truth be told if these idiots met them they would be like "kuffar, kuffar" because most are way liberal then these guys.

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## Yankee-stani

Indus Pakistan said:


> Bingo. Truth be told if these idiots met them they would be like "kuffar, kuffar" because most are way liberal then these guys.



Yupp and Central Asians are known to be pretty liberal even before Soviet and Chinese Communists took over anyways China is not the only country that has a tough stance on "low life wahhabi scum",Kazakhstan,Uzbekistan,Azerbaijan all have similar policies cause they saw what happen to countries like Pakistan,Afghanistan and Egypt you give "Gulf Arab Sheikhs" an inch they take a mile

Funny all those "Gulf Arab" Sheikhs all go to the former Soviet Republics to get horny and high and shittt so whos the "kuffar" now

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## Yankee-stani

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/31903/our-national-dress-is-the-shalwar-kameez-not-the-niqab/.

Probably the only time Express Tribune got it right otherwise its rag paper


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## Peaceful Civilian

No country can tolerate extremism & terrorism , we also don’t, and we are taking action against them.
China should deal them with iron hand. They are threat for Peace, as judiciary is slow system so Its better they take them on unknown place and deal them with burning iron, No sympathy for extremist & terrorist.
Look how these people have done with beautiful city Xinjiang, they killed many innocent Chinese and started bloodbath to impose demands. Extend China wall from them & their remains if possible and if they are high numbers.
Pakistan is also victim of extremism,terrorism , sectarianism & religious bigots. We burnt them alive including girls in lal masjid/mosque when they created unrest in Islamabad and raised stick against against army.
Well done China, No mercy for terrorist.
If you go soft on them, they will again do violence and bloodbath in streets of Xinjiang.

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## Yankee-stani

Peaceful Civilian said:


> No country can tolerate extremism & terrorism , we also don’t, and we are taking action against them.
> China should deal them with iron hand. They are threat for Peace, as judiciary is slow system so Its better they take them on unknown place and deal them with burning iron, No sympathy for extremist & terrorist.
> Look how these people have done with beautiful city Xinjiang, they killed many innocent Chinese and started bloodbath to impose demands. Extend China wall from them & their remains if possible and if they are high numbers.
> Pakistan is also victim of extremism,terrorism , sectarianism & religious bigots. We burnt them alive including girls in lal masjid/mosque when they created unrest in Islamabad and raised stick against.
> Well done China, No mercy for terrorist.




It took Pakistan 30 years to finally rid these scums but killing them off is only short term long term we are kinda screwed unless we go hard on the extremist elements of society fast or we gotta wait 25 plus years to rid that mentality and somehow we need to get the Yanks out of Afg soon

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## Peaceful Civilian

OsmanAli98 said:


> It took Pakistan 30 years to finally rid these scums but killing them off is only short term long term we are kinda screwed unless we go hard on the extremist elements of society fast or we gotta wait 25 plus years to rid that mentality and somehow we need to get the Yanks out of Afg soon


Some people says These so called peaceful Muslim?while their demands are with Lashkar of violent people. China was too soft on them in past .

Warning few 18+ graphic

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## Yankee-stani

Peaceful Civilian said:


> View attachment 507381
> 
> These so called peaceful Muslim?while their demands are with Lashkar of violent people. China was too soft on them in past .
> 
> Warning few 18+ graphic
> 
> View attachment 507375
> View attachment 507376
> View attachment 507377
> View attachment 507378
> View attachment 507379
> View attachment 507380
> 
> View attachment 507381




That was 2009 I recall those events but compared what Pak did in FATA and KPK the PRC did a better job


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## haidian

denel said:


> even halal is being cracked down and worship being disallowed for the youngsters. Not to mention what they are doing against the Hui


That's a big joke, there are several Halal restanrants in my neighborhood doing business till late at night including a big Xinjiang one. When you fake news, don't make them so obvious a lie.

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## Terra Cotta Warriors

BBC ? lol , make mischief. They are very good at it.

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## Peaceful Civilian

OsmanAli98 said:


> That was 2009 I recall those events but compared what Pak did in FATA and KPK the PRC did a better job


Riots happened again & again i.e 2009 , 22 May 2014 & many I forget date, Yes only solution is give authority to police & concerned department to find & kill them in unknown place. Courts are slow process.

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## Yankee-stani

I agree you gotta cut it from the source the mess


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## xyxmt

Satellite imagery is a new tool in propaganda these days, just show it no one can tell a difference between a head and a tail but its was taken by the satellite so it must be what they say it is.

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## dy1022

great work !

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## haidian

*Pack your tent, let's go camping in desert in Xinjiang*
*




*

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## Terra Cotta Warriors

*Camping in desert in Xinjiang? No zuo no die.*


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## 艹艹艹

I will go next year.
Wait me

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## Nan Yang

It's natural for women to want to look beautiful. 
Men who force women to wear the tudong should be forced to wear it themselves.

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## KAMDEV

TaiShang said:


> *Xinjiang women gain respect and self-recognition*
> 
> By Liu Xin in Kashi Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/24
> 
> 
> *Extremists forbid the use of condom, don’t care about the children: locals*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Three female dancers in the night market in Hotan. Photo: Fan Lingzhi/GT
> 
> 
> *The ongoing de-extremism efforts in Northwest China's Xinjiang Province and the launch of vocational education and training centers have helped reduce discrimination against women, and by playing a more active role in family and society, they have gained self-respect.*
> 
> With the promotion of vocational skills, national laws and regulations and de-extremism education, *more residents and trainees in Xinjiang begin to realize that women should not be treated as the "personal possessions" of their husbands, *according to officials reached by the Global Times in Xinjiang.
> 
> *Some husbands influenced by extremism would forbid their wives from working, force them to wear robes and cover their faces, or even beat their wives.* Instead of obeying laws and regulations, they used distorted extremist doctrines to guide their life, the Global Times learned from a training center in Kashi.
> 
> Many female trainees at vocational education and training centers in Hotan and Kashi shared with the Global Times their stories of living a depressing life as victims of extremism.
> 
> *Gulbahar Arken, a 24-year-old trainee from the training center in Kashi, was forced, when she was 15, by her father to "marry" an illegal imam, who was 40 years older.*
> 
> "*I was his 7th wife… at that time*, I was too young to get registered with the man in the local civil affairs bureau."
> 
> *"My father, who is influenced by extremism, said that by marrying this man, I can go to heaven,"* Gulbahar said.
> 
> She said *she was beaten by the man with the handle of shovel and was forced to learn distorted religious extremism doctrines.* She tried to run away several times but failed, with her father sending her back to the man.
> 
> Gulbahar finally managed to "get divorced" from the man after the man said "Talaq" three times to her [Triple Talaq, a type of instant divorce in Islam]. But her life seemed destroyed.
> 
> Triple Talaq or Islamic instant divorce means when "Talaq" is repeated three times by the husband in a Muslim family, then the couple will be formally divorced.
> 
> *"The best time of my life has gone miserably and I did not and would never understand why my father did this to me,"* Gulbahar said.
> 
> Gulbahar said she likes life in the center and is trying to make up by learning vocational skills, which she missed in her previous life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Women chat on a street corner in Kashi on October 23. Photo: Fan Lingzhi/GT
> 
> *Removing restrictions*
> 
> The practice of men asking women to wear only robes has been stopped and the situation of banning them from working has also changed.
> 
> Patigul Abaydulla, 26, is now working with her husband in a vocational education and training center in Hotan.
> 
> She told the Global Times on Tuesday that* she had to cover herself thoroughly with a veil and robe at the request of her husband, who was influenced by extremism.* The only income for the family of four members was her husband's earnings as a farmer and as a part-time driver.
> 
> She said that her husband has changed a lot after coming to the training center. "He has become considerate and has started to respect my parents… and I now earn at least 1,500 yuan a month. Family life is getting better," she said.
> 
> *"It is painful for women to cover our beauty… why should we do this?" Madina Akbar, 19, who was once pressured by peers to wear a robe,* told the Global Times.
> 
> Madina said she was once called a heretic when she wore short sleeves and a skirt when shopping in a bazaar in Urumqi in 2015.
> 
> *Live for herself*
> 
> Extremists also forbid the use of condoms *but few of them would take care of the children*, local people said.
> 
> The Global Times learned that girls in Xinjiang, especially in rural areas, usually get married at an early age and some would lie about their age to get registered with the local civil affairs bureaus.
> 
> "*Compared with girls in other places, especially in the metropolis, the youth of many girls here is too short. They would soon be bound to the family and children and have little consideration of themselves,*" Madina told the Global Times.
> 
> Many trainees at the centers told the Global Times that they could find jobs and make money using the vocational skills they have acquired, which help them find renewed value in life, gain self-recognition and earn family respect.
> 
> Male trainees reached by the Global Times also said that they respect women and admire their contributions to the family.
> 
> For women who choose to stay at home to take care of the family, their lives have also been enriched.
> 
> Li Fang, director of the women's association in Xinjiang who is stationed in Naizhen town in Kashi, told the Global Times on Tuesday that they have evening schools at the residential communities for women and started women's associations in villages to communicate with them.
> 
> *"Mothers play a crucial role in the families and their mental state and educational level would have a greater influence on their children's development,"* Li said.
> 
> She noted that *more women are joining the evening school to learn Putonghua*, which also helps enhance their children's proficiency in it.
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1124253.shtml


Very good muslim women are getting opportunity be equal to men .



Nan Yang said:


> It's natural for women to want to look beautiful.
> Men who force women to wear the tudong should be forced to wear it themselves.


Yes.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

It is massacre camp not professional skill improvement camp according to western media.


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## Terra Cotta Warriors

This is a tourist attraction. I thought you were going on a desert expedition.


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## Place Of Space

long_ said:


> I will go next year.
> Wait me



Summer is very hot and winter is very cold there, you have to choose a perfect time.

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## twocents

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Some people says These so called peaceful Muslim?while their demands are with Lashkar of violent people. China was too soft on them in past .
> 
> Warning few 18+ graphic
> 
> View attachment 507375
> View attachment 507376
> View attachment 507377
> View attachment 507378
> View attachment 507379
> View attachment 507380
> 
> View attachment 507381



Two hundred killed and thousands more injured, all of them ethinic Hans. To this day the Chinese government bans the circulation of these bloody images so as to minimize public backlash against Uighurs.

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## 艹艹艹

Place Of Space said:


> Summer is very hot and winter is very cold there, you have to choose a perfect time.


秋

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## 帅的一匹

Indus Pakistan said:


> I am sorry there is no proof. You said 80% is lies, well this report makes part of that 80%. In fact anything BBC or Western media reports is lies on China. The only reliable source for news on China is CGTN and CCTV. For a Muslim China is probably one of the best countries to be born in - it provides better education, better health, better life chances then any South Asian country including even Pakistan. In fact I am [secretly] jealous of Chinese Muslims.
> 
> And as I said earlier I have reliable information that the facelity BBC investingated is PLAAF base housing Chinese equivalent of the highly secret Area 51 in USA.
> 
> 
> _Ps. Our great PM Imran Khan is due to visit our 'ironcad' friend soon and we look forward to even closer economic and military cooperation to the grief of Indians._

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## Indus Pakistan

Terra Cotta Warriors said:


> BBC ?


Ask all the ummah lovers will the Rohingya, Uighurs, Palestinians, Syrians be lining up help Pakistan out of the economic mess it is right now. Will they provide the 5th gen stealth fighters that Pakistan will need in the future? Will they help to give solutions to the S-400 missile threat from India? And is BBC doing a good job of highlighting how great Pakistan is or is it ruining Pakistan's image at every turn?

For me personally it was incredibly satisfying knowing Pakistan is going to be exporting JF-17 Thunder figher made in joint venture with China to Myanmar - I hope to see those Thunders being used in defence against Bngladeshi/Indian threat or placating the Rohingya insurgents.

And I wish Prime Minister Imran Khan the best in his much awaited trip to China next month. I hope PM IK and Premirer Xi of China seek new areas where both countries can work together in mutual benefit. Possibly extend the CPEC with new deals.

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## Yankee-stani

Isnt funny the same folks would love Turkey and Erdogan yet dont understand that Turkey strikes hard on Kurdish sepratists in the south eventhough they are Muslim,oh wait thats cause the Turks are ebil "kemalists" they hate Kurds eventhough Kurds have bombed so many Turkish cities and been pawns used by the West.BBC never gave Pakistan a good image look at the old radio reports from the 1965 war or the tv reports aired in the 1971 war as well huge bias


Indus Pakistan said:


> Ask all the ummah lovers will the Rohingya, Uighurs, Palestinians, Syrians be lining up help Pakistan out of the economic mess it is right now. Will they provide the 5th gen stealth fighters that Pakistan will need in the future? Will they help to give solutions to the S-400 missile threat from India? And is BBC doing a good job of highlighting how great Pakistan is or is it ruining Pakistan's image at every turn?


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## Jlaw

twocents said:


> Two hundred killed and thousands more injured, all of them ethinic Hans. To this day the Chinese government bans the circulation of these bloody images so as to minimize public backlash against Uighurs.


A weak government. Better not be Han Chinese in China. You will have less rights than pedophile white tourists


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## Yankee-stani

For me personally it was incredibly satisfying knowing Pakistan is going to be exporting JF-17 Thunder figher made in joint venture with China to Myanmar - I hope to see those Thunders being used in defence against Bngladeshi/Indian threat or placating the Rohingya insurgents.

Eh,I am neutral on the Burmese actions to be honest,Tho I agree the Rohingya crisis has been overblown for more sinister purpose.Myanmar was diplomatically isolated during the Cold War and until like 2010 when the junta gave its quits, first when I hear the US,UK and all western powers fawning over the Rohingya I did some backround check on why the US may be supportive them, and guess what Myanmar has tons of black gold perhaps the largest in all of SouthEast Asia.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/world/asia/myanmar-oil-field-nga-naung-mone.html.So Myanmar is caught in this complex geo strategic war between the PRC and the West who is using India as gatekeepers in the region.I dont think Pakistan should take sides in this however to placate the religious conservatives perhaps offer a form of mediation to the conflict and instead of taking sides


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## TaiShang

I want to try, as well, next summer, when I am in Mainland. Maybe can rent a car and venture out.


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## Terra Cotta Warriors

twocents said:


> Two hundred killed and thousands more injured, all of them ethinic Hans. To this day the Chinese government bans the circulation of these bloody images so as to minimize public backlash against Uighurs.


The army and the national security department are constantly scolding the sarft, and the films audited by SARFT are not allowed to have bloody scenes. Such fools as education are simply cultivating fools. They don't know the danger of the outside world. Both the 'warwolf' and 'operation red sea' were directed by the ministry of defence to tell SARFT not to cut the bloody scenes and must pass.

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## TaiShang

*De-extremism efforts in Xinjiang change local lives for the better*


By Fan Lingzhi and Liu Xin in Kashi Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/27


● Many trainees in the vocational education and training program in Xinjiang used to be influenced by extremism and spread extremism

● They told personal stories of being victims of extremism to alert others

● *The ongoing de-extremism efforts in Xinjiang have taken effect and local residents feel more secure and hopeful for a better life*


What happened to trainees before they joined the vocational training and education program in Northwest China's Xinjiang Province? How did they change after joining the program?

Stories of trainees in Kashi, a city in southern Xinjiang, shows *how extremism has haunted this place and destroyed people's lives*, and what has happened since the local government took various measures on de-extremism.

*Going astray*

According to the regulations on de-extremism in Xinjiang, which took effect in April 2017, *15 behaviors were listed as extreme*. *These include expanding the concept of halal beyond traditional dietary rules to impose extreme restrictions on normal social interactions and personal behavior and thought; interfering with the social life of others, wearing or forcing women to wear a burka and covering ones' face with a veil.*

Trainees at a training center in Kashi had violated these regulations.

The Global Times learned from the training center that trainees here usually wrote their personal stories of "being influenced by extremism" and shared them with others. 

Jurat Memet said he was duped into attending a terrorist training camp.

He was born in Kashi in 1968 to parents who were both well-educated and worked for a local transportation department. "My family's financial situation was good… the residential community where I lived is home to many peoples, including Han, Uyghur, Uzbek… we lived in harmony and there was no difference between us."

"Our Han neighbors usually went door to door offering us fried snacks during the Spring Festival and we would give them New Year greetings. The neighbors gave us a handful of candy when we went to their homes," he recalled.

He graduated in 1988 from a normal university and worked as a teacher in Kashi. In the 1990s he quit the job to do business, a time when many people in Xinjiang went into business to earn quick money.

After going to Kyrgyzstan on a business trip, Jurat started to wander around, seeking more opportunities.

"I had grand plans but didn't try very hard," he said.

A man from Urumqi told Jurat that if he gave the man $3,000 he would take him to Cyprus, where the "chances of getting rich were everywhere." 

*But when they got to Turkey, Jurat was asked to hand over another $7,000 if he wanted to reach to Cyprus. He realized it was a con and decided to take his chances in Turkey.*

*During his stay in Turkey, Jurat met Tursun, who started to spread extremist and separatist ideas. *

The man's nonsense included that Uyghur people are born to be Muslim. Jurat recalled with scorn that "*shamefully, I bought into this bullshit…* *Before meeting him I never prayed*, but later I noticed that if I didn't, they would isolate me. Living in this environment, you would unconsciously be influenced by extremism." 

*One day, Tursun told Jurat that he could bring him to Pakistan to "do big business." Jurat believed him and agreed.*

"The man who lead the group to Pakistan told us that he knew our background information very well and the only way to betray him was to die," Jurat said, noting that they were given an alias on their way to Pakistan.

Their destination was a high mountain in some country. "There were tents every in 200 to 300 meters and people who lived there seemed from all over the world. There were Asians, black people… they seemed to know little about each other," Jurat said.

*He remembered seeing a flag with words "Army of Allah."*

They were trained to use guns, make explosives, and acquire assassination skills. *They were also told to "kill heretics in the light of Allah." * 

Jurat said they could only eat peanuts, which were bought by people down the hill and hid in a certain spot. 

Three months later, a man, who was funding the training camp, came to the training camp to see "where his money was used." Trainees were later deployed to different places after the man left that day.

*Jurat was asked to go back to Turkey. "A month later, they asked me to make a vow of loyalty to the 'East Turkistan Islamic Revolution' organization and return to China and wait for my mission," Jurat said.*

He was arrested by China's public security bureau soon after returning to China and sentenced to seven years in prison for attending a terrorist training camp, a violation of Chinese law.

"My family left me behind and my life become dark… I complained every day and prayed to get rich which ended with nothing," said Jurat about his life after he was released from prison.

He was then sent to a training center in 2017. He said that living in the training center finally allowed him to get out from under the influence of extremism.

"I now think that it was lucky for me to get punished by laws when I first come back from Turkey… otherwise I would not understand how I violated the laws and the result could have been a disaster."

"I realize that the deep reason for my mistake was not resisting the influence of extremism and I had not realized it violated national laws and regulations," Jurat said.

"I hope that my story will help others, and prevent them from being poisoned by extremism," he said, noting that he really missed the harmonious life of his childhood.

*From victim to defender*

Many other trainees shared their stories of becoming victims of extremism. 

Melye Mugul was born into an extremist family and her grandmother demanded she learn distorted doctrines after graduating from high school.

She married a man in an Arabic country who, in Melye's words, has "abnormally extremist thought."

Melye was required to wear burka and cover her face even at home and was forbidden from going outdoors alone. Her husband even banned her parents from visiting her.

Melye become depressed after her husband forbid her from crying at her grandmother's funeral. She was called a heretic after visiting her father who was ill.

She finally divorced the man and returned to China.

Melye had not realized the harm of extremism and began to spread extremism. She thought she had "earned respect" from others for once having lived in Arabic countries and began to stop others from drinking or smoking.

Melye wore robes and covered her face with a veil. She told people about her previous life but turned them into wonderful stories. 

"I knew clearly that women there are like men's slaves… many people are acting wrong in the name of religion… life there was not as good as in our country, but I still tempted others to go… many families have broken up after listening to what I said," she said.

Dawutjiang Tursun's life was destroyed after he was influenced by extremism when he was 19 years old. He refused help from his boss because he thought the boss was a "heretic." 

After quitting his job, Dawutjiang just stayed at home, lived by extremism doctrine and asked others to do the same. 

Without any income for the family, his wife sometimes complained about him. He started to beat his wife because a "wife is affiliated to a husband and should absolutely obey him."

Abdueni Toxti, deputy head of the training center in Kashi, told the Global Times that extremism harms people's life in very aspect, and it can lead to terrorist attacks and violence.

Shohrat Zakir, chairman of the Government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region, said in an interview with the Xinhua News Agency that "Countering terrorism and extremism is still a long-standing, complicated and serious issue and requires us to be on high alert." 

"In particular, the four prefectures in southern Xinjiang were threatened by terrorism and seriously influenced by the spread of religious extremism in the past," said Zakir.

He said that some residents there have a limited command of the country's national language and a limited sense and knowledge of the law. They often have difficulty finding employment due to limited vocational skills. This has made them vulnerable to coercion from terrorists and extremists.

*Promoted situation*

Xinjiang's de-extremism efforts and the launching of vocational education and training institutions have made some achievements.

According to data from the tourism bureau in the city of Kashi, more than 4.1 million tourists visited Kashi from January to September. And they have brought revenues of more than 2.81 billion yuan to the city.

An owner of a hat shop in the scenic spot in the ancient section of the city told the Global Times that his business is much better with the increasing number of visitors to Kashi.

The Global Times saw visitors, performers and local residents dancing together in front of the scenic spot during a welcoming ceremony.

Life for trainees who have finished the program has also improved. 

Abdunebi Abdurexit returned home from the training center in mid-October. He told the Global Times that his proficiency in Putonghua, knowledge of national laws and regulations and vocational skills have been greatly enhanced.

He is working as a driver for a local telecommunication company. "I hope to work better and bring a better life to my family," he said.

Other family members can also see he has changed. His wife said that "he used to act like a male chauvinist and never cared about house duties. Now he gets up early every morning and helps with the housework," she said.

The employment of women has also improved.

Li Huijun, CEO of a garment factory in Kaishi, told the Global Times that she has witnessed the de-extremism efforts. 

"When we first came here, many employees could not speak Putonghua, which made it difficult to communicate with them. Many women's husbands forbade them from working here and beat them when they return home from factory," Li said.

After receiving de-extremism education, Putonghua and national laws and regulations and vocational training, the employees have changed.

They have become more competitive and have higher demands for life. "If they earned 5,000 yuan last month but only 4000 yuan this month, they feel dissatisfied with themselves."

"They can use the money they have earned to buy the clothes they like. They can provide better medical treatment for their parents. Some senior employees have received shares in the company. They run the company like it's their own," Li said.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1124716.shtml

***

_China is finally learning to dissect terrorist extremist ideology into its DNA. Do not ever let lose or go soft-hearted until the ethno-religious swamp is dried up and a new, shiny, secular monument is erected in its place._

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## Nan Yang

Good. China is tackling the root cause.

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## dy1022

great work!

fcuk those wahaabi and taliban wannabes!

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## jamahir

Good.

The Chinese government should prevent mullah movements like the Tableeghi Jamaat from India to influence Chinese Muslims through TV and other means.

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## haidian

2018年10月25日，我国大陆（不含港、澳、台）运营城市轨道交通的城市榜单上又新增一城，乌鲁木齐地铁1号线北段于10月25日上午11点正式载客试运营，乌鲁木齐成为第三十二个运营城市轨道交通（不含有轨电车）的城市。

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## haidian

*Urumqi, Xinjiang, formally became the 32nd Chinese city operating subways*
2018年10月25日，我国大陆（不含港、澳、台）运营城市轨道交通的城市榜单上又新增一城，乌鲁木齐地铁1号线北段于10月25日上午11点正式载客试运营，乌鲁木齐成为第三十二个运营城市轨道交通（不含有轨电车）的城市。

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## haidian

*32 cities*, oh my.. I don't even know that China has these many cities running subways

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## TaiShang

Nan Yang said:


> Good. China is tackling the root cause.





dy1022 said:


> great work!
> 
> fcuk those wahaabi and taliban wannabes!





jamahir said:


> Good.
> 
> The Chinese government should prevent mullah movements like the Tableeghi Jamaat from India to influence Chinese Muslims through TV and other means.



Terrorists and their sympathizers are facing the full power of the state, and things will not get any better for them from this point on.

China has finally decided to wipe out the very sources of terrorism and extremism. Western neo-fascist media can cry a Crimea River.

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## haidian

*Urumqi Subway*






































Incredibly beautiful stations..like a fairyland

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## haidian



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## haidian



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## SuvarnaTeja

Wow. Looks awesome. Chinese are both hardworking and great visionaries. It is very rare to have both of these traits.

Congratulations! for the great progress that you are making.

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## haidian



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## Mista

haidian said:


>



Nice. These pics remind me of Gardens by the Bay.

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## haidian



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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

No.32 quite a number it is!

CHANGZHOU常州would have subway in 2019

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## haidian



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## TaiShang

*Urumqi booming with social stability*

By Leng Shumei Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/28 

*Top companies invest in Xinjiang city*




Photo taken on September 20, 2018 shows a PV power plant in Hami, northwest China's Xinjiang Province. Xinjiang has seen *a surge in the electricity generation from clean energy. *With abundant wind and solar resources, Xinjiang is a pioneer in using new energy in China, with installed new-energy capacity having exceeded 27 million kilowatts so far. Photo: Xinhua


Urumqi, capital of *Northwest China's Xinjiang Province, has so far attracted investment from 78 Fortune Global 500 companies*, following supportive government policies and improved social stability of the region.

*Forty-five of China's top 500 companies as well as 79 other famous enterprises have also invested in the city*, Xinjiang Daily reported on Saturday. 

Most of the companies investing in Urumqi are specializing in *manufacturing, new energy and new material industries*, the report said.

"Xinjiang will play its economic radiation effect better in Central Asia along with the development of the Belt and Road initiative," Wang Dehua, head of the Institute for South and Central Asian Studies at the Shanghai Institutes for International Studies, told the Global Times on Sunday. 

"It is the good and efficient business environment in Xinjiang that has enhanced our confidence and determination in investing in the region," Wang Wenyin, board chairman of the Shenzhen-based Amer International Group, was quoted as saying by the daily newspaper. 

The company has invested in an industrial park under the framework of the Belt and Road initiative and construction of the park started on September 30 in the Urumqi Economic and Technological Development Zone (Toutunhe District).

*Stable society* 

"It was the support from local governments and residents that made it possible for us to set up factories in Xinjiang," a director assistant surnamed Yuan from a shoe factory based in South China's Guangdong Province, told the Global Times. 

Yuan said that it was a mutually beneficial action as they could reduce production costs while helping local residents find a direction for their life, preventing them from straying toward extremism.

"To attract investment is to expand the scale of opening-up and thus to promote the economy of Xinjiang," La Disheng, a professor at the Party School of the Communist Party of China Xinjiang regional committee, told the Global Times on Sunday.

*La stressed that a stable society is the prerequisite for economic development.*

Wang Dehua echoed La, saying that "*education is a fundamental measure to solve the problem as it prevents people from being deceived by extremism and provides them with the abilities to pursue a better life.*" 

The Global Times learned from company owners who invested in Xinjiang that *women were once forbidden from working, when the region was heavily haunted by extremism in the past few years. *

They said some of the* local women were beaten by their husbands after getting home from work, but now the situation has changed. Women now can use money they have earned to buy the clothes they like and they have higher demands for life rather than being a man's accessory. *

*New strategy 
*
The volume of investment capital flooding into Urumqi increased from 69.4 billion yuan ($10.0 billion) in 2015 to 102.4 billion yuan ($14.7 billion) in 2017, Xinjiang Daily reported.

Newly-emerging industry in Urumqi grew 14.8 percent in the first half of 2018 and the high-tech industry grew 16.9 percent, the report said.

The high growth resulted from Urumqi government launching a new development plan focused on equipment manufacturing, new-energy and new-material industries, including the establishment of 13 industrial clusters, the report said. 

The logistics industry and export trade are expected to embrace fast development in transportation between China and Europe, Wang Dehua said. 

Wang referred to a new rail-ship route launched by China and Kazakhstan railway authorities in January. 

The 4,186 kilometer route, starting in Urumqi, quickened access between China and Central Asia, West Asia and Europe, the Xinhua News Agency reported in January.

Xue Chengxi, chief of the Urumqi railway bureau freight department, said Saturday that the annual quantity of goods shipped on the Xinjiang railway surpassed 100 million tons compared to 5,000 tons 14 years ago, the China News Service reported. 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1124868.shtml

***

Women's liberation = social liberation from extremism and backwardness.

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## eldamar

Enforce secularism on the extremists. Once they appreciate all the joys of life secularism brings, they will nv go back to a life of obscurity brought about by religion.

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## haidian

Xinjiang hasn't heard of any violence and terrorist incidents for a long time, barely a decade ago terrorist violence used to be on TV on monthly basis and the region was on the brink of total chaos, now it becomes the safest region in China with booming tourism and economic prosperity. Xinjiang now enjoys the highest GDP growth in China. What a great achievement in just a decade!

We should be on high alert that it's becoming increasingly obvious that the west is hell bent to turn Xinjiang into a war zone like Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan or India occupied Kashmir, their propaganda machines on Xinjaing is gaining intensity by the day.

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## Vikki

TaiShang said:


> Terrorists and their sympathizers are facing the full power of the state, and things will not get any better for them from this point on.
> 
> China has finally decided to wipe out the very sources of terrorism and extremism. Western neo-fascist media can cry a Crimea River.


Hmm..you are slowly making people deIslamic


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## haidian

Urumqi's subway dwarfs Beijing's subway, the style looks pretty exotic and it seems to have huge IMAX screens around the ceilings.

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## 帅的一匹

religious extremism is not welcomed in China.

we shall be very cautious of those extreme religious ideology penetration from the middle east. anyone who spreading those extremism shall be arrested.



Vikki said:


> Hmm..you are slowly making people deIslamic


extremism is the cancer of Islam, we shall not ignore it.

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## Vikki

wanglaokan said:


> religious extremism is not welcomed in China.
> 
> we shall be very cautious of those extreme religious ideology penetration from the middle east. anyone who spreading those extremism shall be arrested.
> 
> 
> extremism is the cancer of Islam, we shall not ignore it.


Good...especially religious ideologies which ask loyalty for them instead of nation state. ..


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## prashantazazel

Excellent. Education works much better than bombs

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## 帅的一匹

prashantazazel said:


> Excellent. Education works much better than bombs


innocent muslim shall be nicely treated while Jihadist or wahhabists shall be kicked out or arrested ASAP.

these people are cancer.

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## haidian

Vikki said:


> Hmm..you are slowly making people deIslamic


De-extremism , Islam has been in China for over a thousand years, we never had problems with it, China did have a big problem with Christians which resulted in the Boxing rebellion a century or so ago and millions perished.



wanglaokan said:


> innocent muslim shall be nicely treated while Jihadist or wahhabists shall be kicked out or arrested ASAP.
> 
> these people are cancer.


You don't see many human bombers with a PH.D degree, education is the key, that's where China gets into this issue.

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## 帅的一匹

haidian said:


> De-extremism , Islam has been in China for over a thousand years, we never had problems with it, China did have a big problem with Christians which resulted in the Boxing rebellion a century or so ago and millions perished.
> 
> 
> You don't see many human bombers with a PH.D degree, education is the key, that's where China gets into this issue.


even PH.D will be infulenced by those extreme religious ideology, its evil.

China shall try its.best to protect its muslim citizen to be polluted by the extreme religious ideology from the middle east.

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## 帅的一匹

if a terrorist hide a suicide bomb under cover of burqa, then lots of people will die. burqa is.never a traditional ethnic costume of Uygher, and its a Saudi traditional not even Islam.

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## Yingluck

For too long superstition has driven some Xinjiang Muslims are willing to commit mass murder followed by suicide.

It is better to educate them to die for people like what Lei Feng did. Nothing is gain dying for superstition.

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## Zhukov

No Comments from Pakistani Members?

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## SuvarnaTeja

eldarlmari said:


> Enforce secularism on the extremists. Once they appreciate all the joys of life secularism brings, they will nv go back to a life of obscurity brought about by religion.



Not secularism but atheism.



ahmadnawaz22 said:


> No Comments from Pakistani Members?



Why should Pakistanis care? This is an internal issue of China.



Yingluck said:


> For too long superstition has driven some Xinjiang Muslims are willing to commit mass murder followed by suicide.
> 
> It is better to educate them to die for people like what Lei Feng did. Nothing is gain dying for superstition.



There is so much world (India in particular) could learn from China.

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## Zhukov

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Not secularism but atheism.
> 
> 
> 
> *Why should Pakistanis care? This is an internal issue of China.*
> 
> 
> 
> There is so much world (India in particular) could learn from China.


Why not? We are hit by even worse insurgency by Religious extremists compared to china. Any country successfully Fixing this problem should be a matter of interest for Us.
Instead of devising new methods to counter a problem, learning from operations already implemented is a sane approach.
However Chinese Government have total control that are not answerable to anyone. Pakistan is a parliamentary democracy, Any Government that will move forward to take any steps in this regard with sledge hammer approach will loose massive Vote bank and Stiff Resistance from supporters. You know very well how mindset of Subcontinent People works. 99% Sentiments 1% Logic.
Its Ironic This scourge was imposed under a dictator when people couldn't speak against him and people's will and ideologies were totally rolled under the boot, Now fixing it when their is democracy when so many people are already indoctrinated and Rulers cannot do as they please

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## 帅的一匹

Yingluck said:


> For too long superstition has driven some Xinjiang Muslims are willing to commit mass murder followed by suicide.
> 
> It is better to educate them to die for people like what Lei Feng did. Nothing is gain dying for superstition.


its not about.superstition, its.about extremism.

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## eldamar

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Not secularism but atheism.
> 
> 
> 
> Why should Pakistanis care? This is an internal issue of China.
> 
> 
> 
> There is so much world (India in particular) could learn from China.


But I said secularism. U said atheism.

Different opinions.

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## SuvarnaTeja

eldarlmari said:


> But I said secularism. U said atheism.
> 
> Different opinions.



Secularism is not same as Atheism.

Atheism = Non belief in god

Secularism = Indifferent towards religion i.e separating government from religion.


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## 帅的一匹

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Secularism is not same as Atheism.
> 
> Atheism = Non belief in god
> 
> Secularism = Indifferent towards religion i.e separating government from religion.


secularism is our goal, not atheism. we dont need an Islamic state, but a secular state free for all religions or non believers. people shall have the rights to choose what to believe. free conversion.

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## Globenim

Noooo, China needs American style "freedom" like Lybia, Syria or Iraq where they are lucky if they only can't even independently decide anymore who they are trading with and have to pick American junk over their prefered European partners.

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## eldamar

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Secularism is not same as Atheism.
> 
> Atheism = Non belief in god
> 
> Secularism = Indifferent towards religion i.e separating government from religion.


Exactly. U reaffirmed my point yourself.

I said secularism will enlighten them. They r free to practice their religion on a moderate basis n on a personal level, but don't bring them out in public or on an official level aka separate religion from government.

Wearing a Hijab in public is not secularity. Niqab is worse. That's sending a message to others that u r different n special, away from secular mainstream society. I can't see your hair and/or face. I can't even identify you based on physical characteristics. I don't even know whether u're really a woman or a man disguised as a woman. This is why so many countries both the West and China bans the donning of the Hijab, Burqa and Niqab in public. Wanna wear them? Wear them at home or religious festivals, not out in public in everyday life.

Same as keeping huge beards. That's sending a message to others like 'look, I'm a traditionalist, I believe i live during my prophet's time now, not in modern times'.

But then u said *no*, atheism would help benefit these extremists. I focused on secularism, while u disagreed with me n said atheism would.

So what was the disagreement about?

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## haidian

Education and getting them rich are two most powerful weapons to fight religious extremism and China has the edge on both. The worst bunch is those who have nothing to lose, once you have a good house, a car, a nice life, it's very unlikely that you would turn to extremism.

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## haidian

*Peaceful and serene Xinjiang is no terror haven*
By Liu Sai Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/29 19:33:39

Some Western politicians and media outlets have recently been attacking anti-terrorism measures and moves to maintain stability by the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. For political reasons, anti-China forces smeared the steps against extremism in the northwestern region. But the fact is that the situation in Xinjiang is stable. The region is developing steadily and there is amity among all ethnic groups. People in Xinjiang cherish the hard-won prosperous life, repudiating any attempts at slandering the efforts to stabilize the region. 

Terror attacks used to be frequent in Xinjiang with extremism rife in the region. There were reports with different versions about the same incident, and some anti-China forces distorted the truth with the intent to spread misinformation. 

The Chinese government and people have taken a tough stance against terrorism and extremism for years. Officials and people in Xinjiang paid a high price. 

After years of trying to obliterate the scourge of terrorism, Xinjiang stabilized. The people there live peacefully and make a good living. There are no more reports of terrorist attacks and tranquility has returned to the lives of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang. 

Xinjiang's stability not only benefits the ethnic groups in the region but also attracts visitors from around the world. A few years ago in the wake of terror attacks, Xinjiang's morning fairs, night fairs and squares were closed for people's safety. Now they have reopened. 

In the morning, senior citizens can be seen in busy streets again; people dance in the squares in the afternoon, and the lively night fairs make people stay for a long time. Such scenes disappoint those who don't want to see peace return to the region.

The famous Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar in the capital Urumqi now receives more than 30,000 domestic and foreign visitors every day during the peak tourism season. The number of tourists has gone through the roof in recent years with Xinjiang becoming a favorite draw of domestic and foreign visitors. The region saw an increase of 32.4 percent in the number of tourists in 2017, receiving a total of 107 million tourists. Tourists spent over 182 billion yuan ($26 billion) in the region, 30 percent more than in 2016. It is expected the number of tourists in Xinjiang will reach 130 million by the end of 2018. 

Syria's population is similar to that of Xinjiang. Because of the lasting war, millions of Syrian people have been displaced and are forced to seek asylum in other countries. Most foreigners who go to Syria today are soldiers, not visitors, bringing them gunshots rather than helping them strive for a better livelihood. Xinjiang doesn't need foreign soldiers. Chinese people have the strength and confidence to win the war on terrorism and maintain stability.

Xinjiang's stability is in the interest of the ethnic groups in the region and the country, and it is also the will of all peace-loving people in the world. The Chinese government, officials and people in Xinjiang have contributed to progress in the region with their hard work.

It's believed all countries have the same attitude toward terrorism and extremism. China has paid the price in eradicating the scourge and worked out the anti-terrorism and de-extremism approach with Chinese wisdom. Western media, which revels in double standards, tends to distort the truth about Xinjiang. But such intentions are defeated by the reality in the region. 

*Xinjiang's long-lasting stability is the best counterattack against distortion, and the region's prosperity will eventually quell all rumors.* All of China's ethnic groups will unite to prevent terror attacks and promote well-being of locals. 

We believe that Xinjiang's future will be more promising.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1124979.shtml

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## eldamar

eldarlmari said:


> Exactly. U reaffirmed my point yourself.
> 
> I said secularism will enlighten them. They r free to practice their religion on a moderate basis n on a personal level, but don't bring them out in public or on an official level aka separate religion from government.
> 
> Wearing a Hijab in public is not secularity. Niqab is worse. That's sending a message to others that u r different n special, away from secular mainstream society. I can't see your hair and/or face. I can't even identify you based on physical characteristics. I don't even know whether u're really a woman or a man disguised as a woman. This is why so many countries both the West and China bans the donning of Hijab, Burqa and Niqab in public. Wanna wear them? Wear them at home, not out in public.
> 
> Same as keeping huge beards. That's sending a message to others like 'look, I'm a traditional n extremist muslim, I believe i live during my prophet's time now, not in modern times'.
> 
> Then u said *no*, atheism would help benefit these extremists. I focused on secularism, while u disagreed with me n said atheism would, instead.
> 
> So what was the disagreement about?


Do laymen Buddhists go to the office(not temples or religious festivals)covered in nothing but sanghi robes? Do laymen Christians go shopping at the market covered in priestly robes?. Do they do mass praying on road pavements in public? If they do, why can't they do it at home? Why show it to others?

No, because these are a blatant display of extremism, not secularism. Its a making statement like 'look, we the believers do what we please, god willing, while, u the infidels- are not us. I am flying up to heaven while u will be heading straight for hell. In other words, *we are different'*.

These are all self-segregating acts of extremism.

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## oprih

Good job China, america and other white countries including their asian slaves have been spreading anti-China propaganda regarding this issue on every social platform for so many months now but they still fail to destabilize China. I'm glad that China is being vocal now, so happy that the evil intentions of the anti-Chinese continue to fail.

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## oprih

Terror haven are places like america where mass shooting is a common occurence along with racist attacks.


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## oprih

Beautiful subway for the beautiful province of Xinjiang.

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## eldamar

eldarlmari said:


> Do laymen Buddhists go to the office(not temples or religious festivals)covered in nothing but sanghi robes? Do laymen Christians go shopping at the market covered in priestly robes?. Do they do mass praying on road pavements in public? If they do, why can't they do it at home? Why show it to others?
> 
> No, because these are a blatant display of extremism, not secularism. Its a making statement like 'look, we the believers do what please while u the infidels are not us. In other words, we are different'.
> 
> These are all self-segregating acts of extremism.


An example of extremists using religious garments as disguises

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mas_Selamat_Kastari

*Mas Selamat Kastari* (born 23 January 1961), an Indonesian-born Singaporean, was for more than a year Singapore's most-wanted fugitive after escaping from detention on 27 February 2008. The search for him has been described as the largest manhunt ever launched in Singapore.[2] He was eventually recaptured in Skudai, Malaysia, on 1 April 2009, over a year after his escape, and has since been returned to Singapore.[3][4] His escape was found to be one of the events in Singapore's history that Singaporeans were most aware of, with 95% being aware of it.[5]

_The Onraet Road facility has armed guards, high wire fences and CCTV cameras. Reactions to the escape were filled with surprise and disbelief in what Western observers describe as a country where "security breaches are virtually unheard of".[20][21] It brought serious embarrassment to the Singapore government,[22][23] and many questions raised by the public and the press.[22][23_


http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20101122-248554.html

_*On Mar 1, 2008, before Mas Selamat left the flat, Nur Aini applied make-up on the Jemaah Islamiah leader and secured a tudung (or headscarf) over his head so that he could disguise himself as a woman.*

= *this extremist left Singapore, a world famous nation so well-known for its safety and social security whereby women can walk freely on the streets past midnight without fear, left Singapore disguised as a woman in a religious headgear*

T_udung is the Malay word for the Hijab_:







I can never know if the woman above is really a woman or a man. I can't see her hair n her grossly huge garb is obscuring her physical shape

If such attires are acceptable in modern times, why do so many countries ban it?




_


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## eldamar

SuvarnaTeja said:


> Secularism is not same as Atheism.
> 
> Atheism = Non belief in god
> 
> Secularism = Indifferent towards religion i.e separating government from religion.


U pretending to like my posts but not replying proves u r just here to stir things up by insinuating china is imposing its atheism onto its minority in Xinjiang when what China is doing is to show how secularism would help them instead.

Religious moderation, not extremism. Not enforced irreligion onto its religious minority.

Glad i shut u up.

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## Verve

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> No Comments from Pakistani Members?



Many Pakistanis want clamp down on Mullah gangsterism, with scripted khutba etc and Pakistan is moving in that direction.

Maintaining peace and uprooting terrorism is the responsibility of the state.

China is letting Muslims practice the faith freely, plenty of recent documentaries and vlogs show that.

China is not killing Muslims over cows.

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## SuvarnaTeja

eldarlmari said:


> U pretending to like my posts but not replying proves u r just here to stir things up by insinuating china is imposing its atheism onto its minority in Xinjiang when what China is doing is to show how secularism would help them instead.
> 
> Religious moderation, not extremism. Not enforced irreligion onto its religious minority.
> 
> Glad i shut u up.


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## 帅的一匹

eldarlmari said:


> Exactly. U reaffirmed my point yourself.
> 
> I said secularism will enlighten them. They r free to practice their religion on a moderate basis n on a personal level, but don't bring them out in public or on an official level aka separate religion from government.
> 
> Wearing a Hijab in public is not secularity. Niqab is worse. That's sending a message to others that u r different n special, away from secular mainstream society. I can't see your hair and/or face. I can't even identify you based on physical characteristics. I don't even know whether u're really a woman or a man disguised as a woman. This is why so many countries both the West and China bans the donning of the Hijab, Burqa and Niqab in public. Wanna wear them? Wear them at home or religious festivals, not out in public in everyday life.
> 
> Same as keeping huge beards. That's sending a message to others like 'look, I'm a traditionalist, I believe i live during my prophet's time now, not in modern times'.
> 
> But then u said *no*, atheism would help benefit these extremists. I focused on secularism, while u disagreed with me n said atheism would.
> 
> So what was the disagreement about?


hijab is ok, because i see lot of msulim girl wearing Hijab when i visited Sanya. but Burqa should be strictly prohibited.



Verve said:


> Many Pakistanis want clamp down on Mullah gangsterism, with scripted khutba etc and Pakistan is moving in that direction.
> 
> Maintaining peace and uprooting terrorism is the responsibility of the state.
> 
> China is letting Muslims practice the faith freely, plenty of recent documentaries and vlogs show that.
> 
> China is not killing Muslims over cows.


of course my friend, Muslim in China is much more well treated than.those in India.

in my point of view, Hijab is quite elegant. Burqa is weird.

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## Yingluck

wanglaokan said:


> hijab is ok, because i see lot of msulim girl wearing Hijab when i visited Sanya. but Burqa should be strictly prohibited.
> 
> 
> of course my friend, Muslim in China is much more well treated than.those in India.



Hijab was not ok for many people because subconsciously people know Muslims are exerting themselves and bending others to accommodate them.

For similar China has an anti Halal campaign for similar reason.


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## TaiShang

_Development and its associated secularism are the anti-venom of religious extremism. That's the reason religious extremists preach for a life-style that belongs to middle ages. Because they know they cannot beat modernity, science and secular lifestyle if they allow their followers adopt them. 

China injects anti-venom to the very heart of the poisoned body._

***

*Xinjiang draws inspiration from coastal FTZ practices*

By Chu Daye Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/29






A passenger walks by a supermarket in the Alashankou bonded zone, Northwest China's Xinjiang *Province*. File photo: VCG


Northwest China's Xinjiang Province could copy the successful practices of free trade zones (FTZs) in coastal regions to better perform its role as a gateway of opening-up in Northwest China, an expert said on Monday.

Over the weekend, local news site xjdaily.com reported that the region has achieved noticeable results in its efforts to replicate and utilize proven formulas of FTZs in coastal regions.

*The Alashankou bonded zone simplified a declaration process for companies inside the zone on import and export papers and Urumqi Customs optimized its clearance process in 2017, trimming the time needed for imports and exports by 44.4 percent and 31.5 percent, respectively.*

The results show the region aims to copy the experience of coastal regions in order to play a bigger role in the China-proposed Belt and Road initiative. There are preparations being made for Xinjiang to apply to open an FTZ, experts said.

"By 2020, such learning should produce significant results as such experience is promoted across the region," it said in a guideline released in September.

Alashankou, Xinjiang's first integrated bonded zone, has copied and promoted 15 practices after sending study groups to the Shanghai FTZ.

Three improvements were involved in customs supervision such as making declarations in a collective fashion, and 12 were related to the quarantine process such as paperless documentation, according to a statement sent to the Global Times by the management office of the Alashankou bonded zone.

*Of the 478 companies in the zone, more than 80 were newly registered in 2018, according to the statement.*

The zone aims to expand its footprint in areas including imports, cross-border e-commerce and cargo train services, the statement said.

*"The copying of valuable experience from coastal regions by Xinjiang, a starting point for China to reach out to Central Asia, West Asia and Europe, will help the area to transform its geographic advantage into economic strength,"* said Yan Zhou, deputy chief representative for East and Southeast Asia of IRU, a world road transport organization.

"The efforts will help Xinjiang to meet international trade and economic standards, and one example is the port of Khorgos being listed as one of the pilot inland ports under the TIR convention [an international road traffic facilitation treaty]," Zhou told the Global Times on Monday.

Sun Yuanxin, deputy director of the Research Institute for the Shanghai FTZ at the Shanghai University of Finance and Economics, said the FTZs in coastal areas already actively seek out foreign investment and follow the negative list approach in terms of investment scope, trade facilitation and the business environment.

A region such as Xinjiang "could combine the successful practices it learned from other FTZs with some of the preferential policies only enjoyed by several provinces in central and west China," Sun said,

Sun noted that companies investing in these provinces pay a lower business income tax.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1125010.shtml

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## 帅的一匹

Yingluck said:


> Hijab was not ok for many people because subconsciously people know Muslims are exerting themselves and bending others to accommodate them.
> 
> For similar China has an anti Halal campaign for similar reason.


anti hijab and anti Halal is not right. Muslim girl shall have the right to wear Hijab if it.make.them psychologically feel safe.


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## Yingluck

wanglaokan said:


> anti hijab and anti Halal is not right. Muslim girl shall have the right to wear Hijab if it.make.them psychologically feel safe.



You are entitled your own opinion but that is contrary to your state.

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## 帅的一匹

feel quite.alright.about this one 







Yingluck said:


> You are entitled your own opinion but that is contrary to your state.


no, you are lying.

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## Yingluck

wanglaokan said:


> feel quite.alright.about this one
> View attachment 509652
> 
> 
> 
> no, you are lying.



I can show you Chinese media source as well.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...anti-halal-campaign-in-xinjiang-idUSKCN1MK06F
China launches anti-halal campaign in Xinjiang


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## 帅的一匹

Yingluck said:


> I can show you Chinese media source as well.
> 
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...anti-halal-campaign-in-xinjiang-idUSKCN1MK06F
> China launches anti-halal campaign in Xinjiang


bitch, its a reuter source, open your dog eye big. if you.keep twisting the facts,i will call Mods.

there are muslim restaurant nearby my home, even i can eat Halal food sometimes. you are a liar.

extremism is.evil, not.muslim.

all we need to do is make sure there is a secular society in the north west of China, rather than an Islamic state.

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## Yingluck

wanglaokan said:


> bitch, its a reuter source, open your dog eye big. if you.keep twisting the facts,i will call Mods.
> 
> there are muslim restaurant nearby my home, even i can eat Halal food sometimes. you are a liar.
> 
> extremism is.evil, not.muslim.



Check it out all the sohu sina and many others

https://www.guancha.cn/tuersunaibai/2017_09_06_425933_s.shtml


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## 帅的一匹

Yingluck said:


> Check it out all the sohu sina and many others
> 
> https://www.guancha.cn/tuersunaibai/2017_09_06_425933_s.shtml


do you read the article? there is.Halal toothpaste, Halal salt, Halal cosmetic, Halal soap, even Halal paper in Xingjiang. what the hell is it about?

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## eldamar

wanglaokan said:


> anti hijab and anti Halal is not right. Muslim girl shall have the right to wear Hijab if it.make.them psychologically feel safe.


nope. What u have described is not true secularism.

Hijab is not OK because it sends the subtle signal that the person wearing the hijab is 'different' from others. Say in a secular society, there are 10 person infront of you and 9 of them are average looking folks, with only 1 person wearing a hijab, your natural reaction is to notice that single hijab-donning individual who would be shining like a christmas tree in your subconciousness. Your brain automatically processes the visual information received and gives the analysis(to yourself) that this person is different from the 9 others. This is not how a secular society works, when everyone is judged to be equal

Singapore, which is already many times more liberal than China in many aspects, bans the hijab from workplaces in the public sector as well as most of the private sector(choice is up to individual companies) including schools n hospitals. Teachers and nurses are not allowed to wear any religious headdresses.

A secular society will never tolerate any individual distingushing themselves from the general populace.

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## Yingluck

Today many Chinese got so intoxicated by Jews, and saudi wahhabi dog that their mind are even more backward than Muslims 100 years ago.

Below Gammel Nasser the greatest Arab hero ridicule hijab.

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## 帅的一匹

eldarlmari said:


> nope. Hijab is not OK because it sends the subtle signal that the person wearing the hijab is 'different' from others. Singapore, which is already many times more liberal than China in many aspects, bans the hijab from workplaces in the public sector, invluding schools. Teachers and nurses are not allowed to wear any religious headdress.
> 
> A secular society will never tolerate any individual distingushing themselves from the general populace. The private also bans it


singapore is.dominated.by Chinese, ots the other way around.in Malaysia.



Yingluck said:


> Today many Chinese got so intoxicated by Jews, and saudi wahhabi dog that their mind are even more backward than Muslims 100 years ago.
> 
> Below Gammel Nasser the greatest Arab hero ridicule hijab.


im fully aware of.the harm of wahhabi


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## Place Of Space

jamahir said:


> Good.
> 
> The Chinese government should prevent mullah movements like the Tableeghi Jamaat from India to influence Chinese Muslims through TV and other means.



What's the mullah movements like the Tableeghi Jamaat from India? any link?



wanglaokan said:


> if a terrorist hide a suicide bomb under cover of burqa, then lots of people will die. burqa is.never a traditional ethnic costume of Uygher, and its a Saudi traditional not even Islam.



Sometimes some mulims lack brain cells, you can't understand them. They wear burqa in saudi, because the wind and dusty is strong there. Why do the women from wet and hot countries wear burqa?


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## LeGenD

ahmadnawaz22 said:


> Why not? We are hit by even worse insurgency by Religious extremists compared to china. Any country successfully Fixing this problem should be a matter of interest for Us.
> Instead of devising new methods to counter a problem, learning from operations already implemented is a sane approach.
> However Chinese Government have total control that are not answerable to anyone. Pakistan is a parliamentary democracy, Any Government that will move forward to take any steps in this regard with sledge hammer approach will loose massive Vote bank and Stiff Resistance from supporters. You know very well how mindset of Subcontinent People works. 99% Sentiments 1% Logic.
> Its Ironic This scourge was imposed under a dictator when people couldn't speak against him and people's will and ideologies were totally rolled under the boot, Now fixing it when their is democracy when so many people are already indoctrinated and Rulers cannot do as they please


Pakistani are not privy to developments in Xinjiang on average, and Chinese members might not be comfortable in discussing this matter with "foreigners."

Chinese official accounts of Xinjiang give the impression of political reforms in the province but non-Chinese accounts tell another story. Not sure what to make of these accounts [on the whole] unless a Pakistani visit Xinjiang and stay there for a while to evaluate regional developments (independent research; ethnography). Not sure if Chinese government would allow this.

At personal capacity, I request all Muslims to study Holy Quran with translation [consensus based: https://quran.com/], to understand Islam in its true spirit. PTI-led government should also encourage this practice.

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## eldamar

wanglaokan said:


> singapore is.dominated.by Chinese, ots the other way around.in Malaysia.
> 
> 
> im fully aware of.the harm of wahhabi


And malaysia is not a secular society. Its constitution has already stated Islam is the official religion, but others are tolerated. U can go to work in all kinds of religious headgear n no1 will blink an eyelid there.

Im talking about an officially secular society like Singapore n China

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## shadows888

haidian said:


> Urumqi's subway dwarfs Beijing's subway, the style looks pretty exotic and it seems to have huge IMAX screens around the ceilings.



dat oil money

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## 帅的一匹

eldarlmari said:


> And malaysia is not a secular society. Its constitution has already stated Islam is the official religion, but others are tolerated. U can go to work in all kinds of religious headgear n no1 will blink an eyelid there.
> 
> Im talking about an officially secular society like Singapore n China


secular society is for sure.



Place Of Space said:


> What's the mullah movements like the Tableeghi Jamaat from India? any link?
> 
> 
> 
> Sometimes some mulims lack brain cells, you can't understand them. They wear burqa in saudi, because the wind and dusty is strong there. Why do the women from wet and hot countries wear burqa?


because the huge influence of Saud in Islam world.



eldarlmari said:


> nope. What u have described is not true secularism.
> 
> Hijab is not OK because it sends the subtle signal that the person wearing the hijab is 'different' from others. Say in a secular society, there are 10 person infront of you and 9 of them are average looking folks, with only 1 person wearing a hijab, your natural reaction is to notice that single hijab-donning individual who would be shining like a christmas tree in your subconciousness. Your brain automatically processes the visual information received and gives the analysis(to yourself) that this person is different from the 9 others. This is not how a secular society works, when everyone is judged to be equal
> 
> Singapore, which is already many times more liberal than China in many aspects, bans the hijab from workplaces in the public sector as well as most of the private sector(choice is up to individual companies) including schools n hospitals. Teachers and nurses are not allowed to wear any religious headdresses.
> 
> A secular society will never tolerate any individual distingushing themselves from the general populace.


partially agree with you, cause the extremism,wahhabism as well as the seperatism in Xingjiang now is very serious now.

we should stop sending religious clerics to study in Saud, Qatar and UAE. and we should work closely with Turkey goverment to control Xingjiang seperatists.


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## Yingluck

Hijab is all about Muslim enforcing themselves on everyone, and an excuse for self-victimization when others proscribe it-- even though wearing hijab is not appropriate in many occasions or occupations.

Then Muslims will take this opportunity to accuse others of discrimination and start their spree of suicide bombing.

No one will make a big fuss on banning Cheongsam, Kimono, but Muslims keep whinning and mind masturbating about discrimination when proscribed.

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## 帅的一匹

good to have Pakistan with us, they are helping lots in anti terrorists operation.



Yingluck said:


> Hijab is all about Muslim enforcing themselves on everyone, and an excuse for self-victimization when others proscribe it-- even though wearing hijab is not appropriate in many occasions or occupations.
> 
> Then Muslims will take this opportunity to accuse others of discrimination and start their spree of suicide bombing.
> 
> No one will make a big fuss on banning Cheongsam, Kimono, but Muslims keep whinning and mind masturbating about discrimination when proscribed.


i have to admit the dressing of Hajib is different from others, but it wont damper lots.

personally i will feel uncomfotable with a Chinese wearing Burqa.


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## Yingluck

Hijab is also a symbol of elites deliberately making people stupid and radical brainwashing.

In land of Al Azhar, the female elites (below Egypt cabinet ministers) never hijab.

Even in Pakistan, elite woman either hijab-lite (Benzir) or no hijab.

The elites clearly dont buy this piece of crap fashion.

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## haidian



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## haidian

Prosperous, peaceful, wealthy and healthy... the results justified all means.


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## prashantazazel

A serious problem with hijab is that it is generally enforced or coerced by the male members of the family, upon the girl.
It is rarely free choice, if you're taught from birth that wearing religious gear is the righteous way.


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## 帅的一匹

i dont like two kinds of.people:
1. extreme anti religious 
2. religious extremist
these kind of people will ruin this country and.break.its unity.



prashantazazel said:


> A serious problem with hijab is that it is generally enforced or coerced by the male members of the family, upon the girl.
> It is rarely free choice, if you're taught from birth that wearing religious gear is the righteous way.


its how Muslim live their life


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## haidian

*Spectacular scenic view of Rape Seed Garden in Xinjiang




*

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## khansaheeb

Indians will be excited to see rape seed garden no doubt.

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## Sinnerman108

haidian said:


> *Spectacular scenic view of Rape Seed Garden in Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



What is the story behind that name ?


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## haidian

Sinnerman108 said:


> What is the story behind that name ?


Rape is a kind of vegetable...

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## Raphael

I love the smell of rapeseed in the morning

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## eldamar

wanglaokan said:


> i dont like two kinds of.people:
> 1. extreme anti religious
> 2. religious extremist
> these kind of people will ruin this country and.break.its unity.
> 
> 
> its how Muslim live their life


I told u, im 101% sure singapore is way more secular and liberal than china in many ways, including affairs on religion. Even then:

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/allowing-hijab-problematic-some-jobs-yaacob

_While everyone has the right to practise his or her respective faiths, Dr Yaacob said this also entails a responsibility to promote mutual respect and understanding among different religious groups and to preserve the common space that all groups share.


=Everyone is equal. Distinigushing oneself from the rest of the populace is not_


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## TaiShang

*Peaceful and serene Xinjiang is no terror haven*

By Liu Sai Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/29 






Illustration: Liu Rui/GT

Some Western politicians and media outlets have recently been attacking anti-terrorism measures and moves to maintain stability by the
Xinjiang Province. For political reasons, anti-China forces smeared the steps against extremism in the northwestern region. But the fact is that the situation in Xinjiang is stable. The region is developing steadily and there is amity among all ethnic groups. People in Xinjiang cherish the hard-won prosperous life, repudiating any attempts at slandering the efforts to stabilize the region. 

Terror attacks used to be frequent in Xinjiang with extremism rife in the region. There were reports with different versions about the same incident, and some anti-China forces distorted the truth with the intent to spread misinformation. 

The Chinese government and people have taken a tough stance against terrorism and extremism for years. Officials and people in Xinjiang paid a high price. 

After years of trying to obliterate the scourge of terrorism, Xinjiang stabilized. The people there live peacefully and make a good living. There are no more reports of terrorist attacks and tranquility has returned to the lives of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang. 

Xinjiang's stability not only benefits the ethnic groups in the region but also attracts visitors from around the world. A few years ago in the wake of terror attacks, Xinjiang's morning fairs, night fairs and squares were closed for people's safety. Now they have reopened. 

In the morning, senior citizens can be seen in busy streets again; people dance in the squares in the afternoon, and the lively night fairs make people stay for a long time. Such scenes disappoint those who don't want to see peace return to the region.

*The famous Xinjiang International Grand Bazaar in the capital Urumqi now receives more than 30,000 domestic and foreign visitors every day during the peak tourism season.* The number of tourists has gone through the roof in recent years with Xinjiang becoming a favorite draw of domestic and foreign visitors. *The region saw an increase of 32.4 percent in the number of tourists in 2017, receiving a total of 107 million tourists.* *Tourists spent over 182 billion yuan ($26 billion) in the region, 30 percent more than in 2016.* It is expected the number of tourists in Xinjiang will reach 130 million by the end of 2018. 

Syria's population is similar to that of Xinjiang. Because of the lasting war, millions of Syrian people have been displaced and are forced to seek asylum in other countries. Most foreigners who go to Syria today are soldiers, not visitors, bringing them gunshots rather than helping them strive for a better livelihood. Xinjiang doesn't need foreign soldiers. Chinese people have the strength and confidence to win the war on terrorism and maintain stability.

Xinjiang's stability is in the interest of the ethnic groups in the region and the country, and it is also the will of all peace-loving people in the world. The Chinese government, officials and people in Xinjiang have contributed to progress in the region with their hard work.

It's believed all countries have the same attitude toward terrorism and extremism. China has paid the price in eradicating the scourge and worked out the anti-terrorism and de-extremism approach with Chinese wisdom. Western media, which revels in double standards, tends to distort the truth about Xinjiang. But such intentions are defeated by the reality in the region. 

Xinjiang's long-lasting stability is the best counterattack against distortion, and the region's prosperity will eventually quell all rumors. All of China's ethnic groups will unite to prevent terror attacks and promote well-being of locals. 

We believe that Xinjiang's future will be more promising.

_The author is an assistant research fellow of the Institute of Central Asia Studies, Xinjiang Academy of Social Sciences. opinion@globaltimes.com.cn_

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1124979.shtml


***

_China is learning to not to be apologetic to religious extremists of all sorts. Foreign ideologies unwelcome. They will be rooted-out and/or transformed.

Xinjiang is not more or less special just because of this or that: It is just a region that needs development along with several others in the Western parts of China. 

China does not accept instruction from others on its own internal matters. *No one is entitled to lecture China, ask China give access to its internal affairs or provide concessions on the basis of ethnicity, religion or culture.*

We respect others way of life and do not involve in them. We will also not let others get involved in our own internal affairs. _

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## Sinnerman108

haidian said:


> Rape is a kind of vegetable...



thanks (y)


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## patero

The seeds of this plant are used to make Rapeseed oil, also known as Canola oil.

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## jamahir

Place Of Space said:


> What's the mullah movements like the Tableeghi Jamaat from India? any link?



Tableeghi Jamaaat literally means Preacher Gathering/Group. It is basically a movement that seeks to "bring back" Sunni Islam to those Muslims that they think have moved away from the religion. For example, those who don't attend prayers.

At best, the TJ is an irritation. At worst, it is the launching pad for future terrorists.











The TJ derives its ideology from the Deobandi sect among Muslims. The Deobandi sect origins in the Deoband town in Northern India.

Last year, the TJ had a fall-out with its parental movement ( Deoband ).

Both, the TJ and the general Deobandis are a regressive bunch.

For more info on the TJ please read this.



Place Of Space said:


> Sometimes some mulims lack brain cells, you can't understand them. They wear burqa in saudi, because the wind and dusty is strong there. Why do the women from wet and hot countries wear burqa?





wanglaokan said:


> because the huge influence of Saud in Islam world.



Yes, Saudia has a big influence among the global population of Muslims but even then the House of Saud is not the origin of the burqa.

It turns out that the burqa origins in a Jewish sect. I will copy-paste my post from another thread :

An Egyptian member of parliament, Amna Nosseir, has researched on this and has called for a ban on the burqa :


> An Egyptian lawmaker has said members of parliament are drafting a law that would ban women from wearing the burqa in government institutions after alleging the Islamic full-face veil was a "Jewish tradition".
> 
> Amna Nosseir said on Sunday that the proposed ban would be in the best interest of Egyptian society and that she has been battling against the burqa over the past 40 years.





> Nosseir, who wears the hijab, said on Wednesday that the burqa - known in Arabic as the niqab - had its origins in Jewish religious law.
> 
> "In the Old Testament, you find in chapter 38 that the Jewish religious authorities tell you that if Jewish women leave the house without covering the face and head then they are breaking Jewish religious law," the lawmaker said during an interview with local media.





> "I have gathered around 20 texts by Jewish religious authorities that completely forbid women from showing their faces and heads," Nosseir said while discussing also banning female university students from wearing "ripped jeans" in lectures.
> 
> She added that this part of Jewish law became entrenched in pre-Islamic Arab tribes of the Arabian Peninsula and then spread throughout the Middle East with the Muslim conquests.





> The verse the lawmaker could be referring to is Genesis 38, where a biblical figure encounters his daughter-in-law in the street and mistakes her for a prostitute because she had covered her face with a veil.


----------



## TaiShang

*Young Xinjiang players train at top Chinese clubs in boost for national unity*

By Shan Jie in Weifang Source:Global Times Published: 2018/10/30

_○ Talented young soccer players from Xinjiang are training and studying in China's best soccer clubs_

_○ After adapting to a new lifestyle and studying Putonghua, some go on to play leading roles at youth and even national level_

_○ The Xinjiang players positively influence their communities and contribute to national unity, say authorities_





Mustafa, 11, from Ili, Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, trains at Shandong Luneng Taishan Football club. Photo: Li Hao/GT


As 11-year-old Mustafa walks on campus, almost everybody greets him.

"Hey Mustafa!" shouts one coach.

"You've come to see our training!" jokes a passing player from the age-14 team who rubs Mustafa's hair.

An outgoing boy with bowl haircut and a cherubic, chubby face, Mustafa is not shy about sharing his dream to play soccer like Neymar, his Brazilian idol.

Mustafa plays in the age-11 team at Luneng Taishan Football Club in East China's Shandong Province and has been training and studying in the club's Luneng Taishan football school in the city of Weifang since 2016.

He is one of 25 young players from Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region at the school.

As early as 2001, the Luneng soccer school began cooperating with the Xinjiang government and soccer authorities to import and support young talent. 

There have been about 70 Xinjiang players who studied at the school since then including Mirahmetjan Muzepper, the first Xinjiang local to play for China's national team.

Some soccer fans invest special hope in Xinjiang players, seeing them as a potential solution to the national team's decades of global humiliation.

The young Xinjiang players "work hard and have potential," a Luneng coach tells the Global Times.

"Soccer is a soundless language that is universal among all ethnic groups," says Tan Zhaohui, deputy general manager of Shandong Luneng sports culture branch of the State Grid Shandong Electric Power Company. 






Subi, captain of China's national Under-16 team and winner of the Golden Boy at the 2017 China Footballer of the Year award. Photo: IC

*Mustafa's goal*

Mustafa is training as the Global Times reporters arrive at the boarding school of China's multiple championship-winning club. 

Luneng boasts one of the best youth training systems with the best facilities and coaches in China. 

Opened in 1999, the campus resembles some of the fancy international schools in Beijing and Shanghai, with 26 training pitches including 19 with real grass.

Seeing the reporters approach, Mustafa promptly distributes a dozen soccer balls to teammates with exquisite long passes around the verdant pitch.

As training ends, Mustafa and best friend Quddus, on duty that day, throw all the training equipment onto a trolley. 

They chat and giggle in their native Uyghur language on the way back.

In the canteen, Mustafa piles chicken legs on his plate.

"Aunty, you made good food today!" he tells the dinner lady with a big grin and thumbs-up.

All the Muslim players pick up their Halal food at a special kiosk and then sit together with their other teammates. 

"The first years when we enrolled Xinjiang children, we put them together and equipped them with Xinjiang coaches," Tan, who is also the executive vice-president of the school, tells the Global Times in Luneng's head office in Jinan, capital city of Shandong.

"But we found it didn't work," Tan says. "They became a small clique and could not fit in the teams." 

The school mixed up all the players and pushed the Xinjiang children harder to study Putonghua "so they will not be lonely, nor have a feeling of inferiority," Tan says.

At dinner, Mustafa's teammates joke in dialects as diverse as Ningxia Hui Autonomous Region through Inner Mongolia to Beijing. 

Some learned a little Uyghur language from the Xinjiang players like "yakexi!", "bravo!" They even know a few curse words.

"If I don't become a soccer player, I will be a rapper," says Mustafa. 

He exudes a warm and inclusive self-confidence. 

Two years ago when he first came to Shandong, Mustafa could not speak much Putonghua.

Nor did he much care for the canteen food, notably vegetables. 

It took him two days to learn how to make a bed and he often cried himself asleep at night.

To help Mustafa adjust to life at the school, his father quit his job and stayed with him in Weifang for a year.

It was his father who gave Mustafa his first soccer ball on his 4th birthday.

When Mustafa was 6, scouts from Luneng invited him to join the school in Shandong.

Ili, his hometown, is 3,974 kilometers from Weifang.

Mustafa's mother, a primary school Chinese language teacher, insisted her son was too young to leave.

Finally, at 9, Mustafa, accompanied by his father, came to start training.

His soccer and Putonghua have improved - and so has his English.

"We Xinjiang children have better pronunciation of English," he says, with a wry smile at the Global Times English-language reporter.

Mustafa has visited South Korea for tournaments and travelled with his team to other cities in China.

He is a student of class 2, grade 4. His class has 27 students from ages 9, 10 and 11 teams, eight from Xinjiang.

Schooling is free for all Luneng youth team players.

Players as young as Mustafa have about seven classes daily including Putonghua, English and math. After class, they have a one and half-hour training sessions.

Before the new semester, Mustafa wrote in a school essay that he would work hard to become captain of his team and that his future goal was to play for Luneng Taishan in China's Super League.

"My biggest dream is to play in La Liga of Spain," he says. 








How about Real Madrid?

"To play for any team in La Liga would be good enough."

Mustafa has a role model: Subi, captain of China's national Under-16 team who won the Golden Boy prize in the 2017 China Footballer of the Year awards.

Subi tells the Global Times that he could not speak a word of Putonghua when he first came to Luneng aged 9, but he gradually grasped it and became a reliable leader of his team.

There are other, more complex issues.

Ihsan, the first-choice goalkeeper of Luneng's age-10 team, encountered some difficulties in obtaining a passport in time for travel to a Japanese tournament.

"But we are cooperating with local governments in Xinjiang to improve the process," Tan says. Luneng is considered "a model for national unity" by the city of Weifang, Tan notes.

The personal growth of players can influence their communities, Tan says. Subi, for example, is a hero to many Xinjiang kids.






Asadullah, 9, also from Ili, studies at Luneng Taishan football school. His teacher says he is talented at math, but not so much Chinese and English. Photo: Li Hao/GT

*Soccer hotbed*

There are more than 60 Xinjiang players in the adult and Under-23 teams of 32 clubs in the China Super League and China League One.

Younger Xinjiang players are training at top clubs like Evergrande Taobao Football Club in South China's Guangdong Province and China Fortune FC in North China's Hebei Province.

"Xinjiang has a great atmosphere for soccer," says Tan. "Parents take their children playing soccer very serious… Local schools also have great passion in promoting soccer."

Luneng is also helping train coaches for Xinjiang primary and high schools. Their scouts and coaches go to certain Xinjiang schools chasing talent.

The school is also seeking to help promote soccer development in other less-developed and border regions.

Luneng has built at least 27 youth talent bases across China including in Xinjiang, Tibet and Inner Mongolia autonomous regions.

Children of different ethnic groups and from different regions growing up together and knowing each other will positively influence their families and their communities, Tan believes.

"Soccer connects people of different ethnicities and from different regions," he says.








***

Great!

China government helps Uighurs in Xinjiang Province develop a secular entertainment culture (rap music) or industry (football) in order to integrate them into the larger society.

*This is similar to the US regime approach to Native Indians. US taught Native Indians how to gamble and drink profusely (culture) and gave them an exclusive business (casino). This way they have assimilated and integrated all Native Indians.

@Yingluck , @Place Of Space *


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## haidian



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## haidian



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## onebyone

Powering a new life: Deep in the Kunlun Mountain, over 2,000 Xinjiang people now have access to electricity, thanks to the newly-built power poles and wires that cost nearly 4.85 mln USD














1:

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## JAC

We are much worried of our families in xinjiang, they are last 1 year in prison xinjiang govenment so called education camps, with out any contect.


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## A ka li

TaiShang said:


> No need for a guide but guide may help for foreign tourists otherwise there will be difficulty in communication. Even standard Mandarin may not help in many locales, as I experience often.
> 
> People mostly like to travel in groups. Even in Taiwan, Mainland tourists travel in groups (and same for Taiwan travelers in Mainland) as they find it more convenient (especially senior tourists -- and most of China's tourists are seniors as they retire quite early).
> 
> But I never signed up for a guided tour so far.
> 
> @AndrewJin


Yes, right



AndrewJin said:


> That year was even before Urumqi opened her first high-speed railway and very first subway.
> I hope I could travel again to see a brand new Xinjiang!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And driving across Tianshan Mountains!


Xinjiang is indeed developing rapidly


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## A ka li

S. Martin said:


> Very good articles! Thanks for sharing what you have seen.
> But I think the westerners don't care about the truths. They don't care about the real needs of Xingjiang people. What they want is to attack and smear the "wicked" commnist government. They always viciously speculate chinese government's every effort of making Xingjiang more safe and prosperous. Be careful they will say you have pitifully fallen into a well-designed trap by Communist party.
> 
> 
> Don't snap aggro here, bro. What does Indians have to do with Xingjiang? Pack up your racist thinking. Don't make the situation more mess if you really want Xingjiang to be good.


The double standard of some Western media



Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> this is a very Good journey log,I would like to share it with my friends!


yes, thank you very much.


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## A ka li

Minority countries have many preferential policies in China


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## A ka li

The stable Xinjiang is a utopia that everyone longs for


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## haidian

*Xinjiang pioneers in China's green push*

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## TaiShang

*China's Xinjiang receives increasing number of tourists*




Centenarian Tohti is seen doing craftwork in Yuli County, northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 16, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)






Tourists enjoy scenery in Yuli County, northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 16, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)







A desert road linking Qiemo County and Luntai County is seen in northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 24, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)





A fireworks show is staged for tourists in Qiemo County, northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 20, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)




Tourists taste local date fruits in Qiemo County, northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 20, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)







Tourists take a group photo in Tarim, northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 24, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)







Tourists ride camels in Yuli County, northwest China's Xinjiang Region, Oct. 16, 2018. Xinjiang received more than 130 million tourists in the first nine months of 2018, up 38.15 percent year on year. (Xinhua/Zhao Ge)

http://www.china.org.cn/travel/2018-11/03/content_69863790_7.htm

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## Jäger

I would like to go see part's of China such as Beijing especially to go see the Summer Palace. but I also wouldn't mind to go see Xinjiang.
anyways congrats China, I hope your tourism industry continues to grow and get stronger

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## TaiShang

Bundeswehr said:


> I would like to go see part's of China such as Beijing especially to go see the Summer Palace. but I also wouldn't mind to go see Xinjiang.
> anyways congrats China, I hope your tourism industry continues to grow and get stronger



Most people are now flocking to the less explored Western regions of China, because traditional places of interest could be rather crowded. 

Of course, in terms of cultural-historical tourism, Central and Eastern Mainland China is incredibly rich and probably offers more than what the Western parts could, but, the Western part has numerous natural (as well as man-made) wonders.

Xinjiang is becoming a popular destination for both domestic and foreign tourists. From Taiwan, as well, there has been growing interest to the Western China. When I went to the travel office couple of months back, I saw in the catalog several Xinjiang and Xizhang (Tibet) travel packages.

@haidian

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## AndrewJin

Infra boom in Xinjiang is facilitating this trend.

Urumqi's new railway terminal 







Bundeswehr said:


> I would like to go see part's of China such as Beijing especially to go see the Summer Palace. but I also wouldn't mind to go see Xinjiang.
> anyways congrats China, I hope your tourism industry continues to grow and get stronger



Many great tourist sites in Xinjiang, only awaiting more and more tourists.
Scenery in Xinjiang 






I have only been to Northern Xinjiang, Tianshan Mountains and Kanas National Park.

Tianshan Mountiains' Heavenly Lake 





Kanas National Park at China-Mongolia-Russia-Kazakstan border

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## haidian

TaiShang said:


> Most people are now flocking to the less explored Western regions of China, because traditional places of interest could be rather crowded.
> 
> Of course, in terms of cultural-historical tourism, Central and Eastern Mainland China is incredibly rich and probably offers more than what the Western parts could, but, the Western part has numerous natural (as well as man-made) wonders.
> 
> Xinjiang is becoming a popular destination for both domestic and foreign tourists. From Taiwan, as well, there has been growing interest to the Western China. When I went to the travel office couple of months back, I saw in the catalog several Xinjiang and Xizhang (Tibet) travel packages.
> 
> @haidian


Xinjiang may have the richest tourist resources in China, the western media pulls all stops to make the world believe that Xinjiang is hell on earth but people only find heaven when they personally visit this place.

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## AndrewJin

haidian said:


> Xinjiang may have the richest tourist resources in China, the western media pulls all stops to make the world believe that Xinjiang is hell on earth but people only find heaven when they personally visit this place.


True, Xinjiang's diverse landscape puts most countries to shame, no exaggeration.
The only thing Xinjiang does not have is sea.
Other than that, Xinjiang has everything, from big metropolis to glaciers, grassland, desert, lakes.....
I have been lucky having visited some of the countless heavenly places.










@Game.Invade @anant_s @AViet @Götterdämmerung @Maarkhoor @Realtalk108 @powastick et al

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## haidian

*Lush and glistering super modern metropolis with the backdrop of white snow capped mountain chains, the contrast is just mind blowing...*

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## haidian

*Uighur girl shows you beautiful Urumqi Subway in Xinjiang*

This subway is just beautiful, speechless. She says the collums are designs of Tianshan snow lotus

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## anant_s

AndrewJin said:


>


Oh boy!
this is heavenly

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


>



Beautiful. 我爱你中国（大陆）。 You make miracles.

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## Foxtrot Delta

O man! Development and construction in china is so fast that i can't even believe it!!

Good for you guys i wish it was available when i lived there. But i hope i will visit again for a few years

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## haidian

*Father and son's battle against desertification in Xinjiang, China





*

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## bluesky

@haidian, which part of Xinjiang is desert and which areas the father and son are trying to reverse the process of desertification? Is Xinjiang the place we usually call by Uyghur?


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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> *Kekeya green project: A man-made miracle*
> chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2018-10-18 08:42
> 
> 
> 
> An aerial photo shows the Kekeya green project in Aksu, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region. [Photo/ts.cn]
> 
> On the northwestern side of the Taklimakan Desert, the world's second-largest shifting sand desert, stands a man-made forest spreading across about 66,667 hectares.
> 
> This forest is the Kekeya green project, also a boundary dividing desert and green space in Aksu, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region.
> 
> Aksu launched the Kekeya green project in 1986 to change the harsh natural conditions. For over 32 years, four million people, including soldiers, students, teachers, civil servants and residents, kept on planting trees, creating a "green Great Wall" 25 kilometers long and four kilometers wide.
> 
> The green project has been set as a model of ecological restoration in China.
> 
> 
> 
> A car drives through the core region of the Kekeya green project in Aksu, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region, Sept 20, 2018. [Photo/Xinhua]
> 
> 
> Deep green ecological shelter forest adjoins golden rice fields in Aksu, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region, Sept 23, 2018. [Photo/Xinhua]
> 
> 
> The Kekeya green project stretches towards tall buildings in Aksu, Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur autonomous region, Sept 26, 2018. [Photo/Xinjiang Daily]
> 
> 
> In this undated file photo, people plant trees that will become part of the Kekeya green project. [Photo/iyaxin.com]
> 
> 
> Satellite remote sensing images show Kekeya (from left to right) in 1987, 1995 and 2017. [Photo/Xinjiang Daily]
> ​

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## haidian



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## haidian

This Uighur girl was so lucky to be born in China where every life counts and matters, otherwise she might be dead long ago.

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## TheTruth

Wow, what kind of genocide is this?

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## haidian

TheTruth said:


> Wow, what kind of genocide is this?


Genocide? Uighur's population growth rate is the No.1 highest in China, ethnic Koreans are the lowest. Better make people believe that China genocides ethnic Koreans than Uighurs if proof needed to be provided.


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## TaiShang

TheTruth said:


> Wow, what kind of genocide is this?



Killing Iraqi and Afghani civilians is bringing democracy an development.

Saving lives is genocide. 

The power of neofascist Western media in setting up narratives and discourses.

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## Beast

TaiShang said:


> Killing Iraqi and Afghani civilians is bringing democracy an development.
> 
> Saving lives is genocide.
> 
> The power of neofascist Western media in setting up narratives and discourses.


And we got stupid Pakistanis believe in China genocide of uyghur.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/why-...-the-muslim-internment-issue-in-china.585566/

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## haidian

Genocide, lol.. , Foreigners from neigboring countries come to Xinjiang to seek a better chance to live and a healthy life.

*More foreigners seeking medical care in Xinjiang*
By Cui Jia | China Daily 





A nurse from the Hospital of Xinjiang Traditional Uyghur Medicine, attends to a mother from Uzbekistan, along with her daughter, who was born in the facility in Urumqi, capital of the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.[Photo/Xinhua]


Region plans to expand services for people along Silk Road routes

*More patients from Central Asian nations sought medical care in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region last year because of its high quality healthcare and its proximity, *according to a senior official.

Foreign patients accessed medical services at hospitals in Urumqi, the regional capital, either in person or via an online diagnosis and consultation platform 8,600 times, an increase of more than 20 percent over 2015, said Liu Chengyuan, deputy mayor of Urumqi.

"We expect to see more foreign patients this year because coming to Urumqi for surgeries and health checks has become a popular trend," he said. "People have been drawn to Xinjiang to seek help from neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons. They are also interested in traditional Chinese and Uygur medicine."

As a core area of the Belt and Road Initiative, Xinjiang plans to become an international medical care center to serve foreign patients, especially those from neighboring countries.

The region borders a number of countries, including Russia, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan. It is home to 14 diverse peoples, including Uygur, Kazakh and Tajik ethnic groups－people who speak the same language and have customs similar to neighboring countries.

"The region has natural and cultural advantages of providing medical care to people from countries involved in the initiative," said Peng Yong, deputy director of the Xinjiang Health and Family Planning Commission.

Five major hospitals in Urumqi have provided 500 beds for international patients and are equipped with nurses who can speak Russian and Kazakh. Foreign patients can also receive fast-track services in those hospitals, Peng said, adding that more than 30 hospitals around Xinjiang also plan to launch services for foreigners.

In addition to the public, senior figures from Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan have visited the region 25 times to receive health checks since 2015, Peng added.

The region's online diagnosis and consultation platform includes 11 top hospitals in China, 17 in Kyrgyzstan, two in Georgia and five in Kazakhstan. Fifteen hospitals in Tajikistan also plan to join the platform, Peng said.

Liu said the platform will eventually include 100 hospitals to provide timely help to foreign patients.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-05/17/content_29376030.htm
"Medical care is a basic and common need. Providing lifesaving medical care to foreign patients can create mutual trust," Peng said.

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> Genocide, lol.. , Foreigners from neigboring countries come to Xinjiang to seek a better chance to live and a healthy life.
> 
> *More foreigners seeking medical care in Xinjiang*
> By Cui Jia | China Daily
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A nurse from the Hospital of Xinjiang Traditional Uyghur Medicine, attends to a mother from Uzbekistan, along with her daughter, who was born in the facility in Urumqi, capital of the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region.[Photo/Xinhua]
> 
> 
> Region plans to expand services for people along Silk Road routes
> 
> *More patients from Central Asian nations sought medical care in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region last year because of its high quality healthcare and its proximity, *according to a senior official.
> 
> Foreign patients accessed medical services at hospitals in Urumqi, the regional capital, either in person or via an online diagnosis and consultation platform 8,600 times, an increase of more than 20 percent over 2015, said Liu Chengyuan, deputy mayor of Urumqi.
> 
> "We expect to see more foreign patients this year because coming to Urumqi for surgeries and health checks has become a popular trend," he said. "People have been drawn to Xinjiang to seek help from neurosurgeons and orthopedic surgeons. They are also interested in traditional Chinese and Uygur medicine."
> 
> As a core area of the Belt and Road Initiative, Xinjiang plans to become an international medical care center to serve foreign patients, especially those from neighboring countries.
> 
> The region borders a number of countries, including Russia, Kazakhstan and Tajikistan. It is home to 14 diverse peoples, including Uygur, Kazakh and Tajik ethnic groups－people who speak the same language and have customs similar to neighboring countries.
> 
> "The region has natural and cultural advantages of providing medical care to people from countries involved in the initiative," said Peng Yong, deputy director of the Xinjiang Health and Family Planning Commission.
> 
> Five major hospitals in Urumqi have provided 500 beds for international patients and are equipped with nurses who can speak Russian and Kazakh. Foreign patients can also receive fast-track services in those hospitals, Peng said, adding that more than 30 hospitals around Xinjiang also plan to launch services for foreigners.
> 
> In addition to the public, senior figures from Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan have visited the region 25 times to receive health checks since 2015, Peng added.
> 
> The region's online diagnosis and consultation platform includes 11 top hospitals in China, 17 in Kyrgyzstan, two in Georgia and five in Kazakhstan. Fifteen hospitals in Tajikistan also plan to join the platform, Peng said.
> 
> Liu said the platform will eventually include 100 hospitals to provide timely help to foreign patients.
> 
> http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2017-05/17/content_29376030.htm
> "Medical care is a basic and common need. Providing lifesaving medical care to foreign patients can create mutual trust," Peng said.



Just similar to Mongolians coming across the border to Inner Mongolia Province to get health treatment. 

Xinjiang is truly becoming the heart of Asia.


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## Peaceful Civilian

Wow great effort . It's all combined team work . You just dodged the death.


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## haidian

TaiShang said:


> Just similar to Mongolians coming across the border to Inner Mongolia Province to get health treatment.
> 
> Xinjiang is truly becoming the heart of Asia.


Best hospitals in Beijing, Shanghai, Guangzhou... have to send teams of best doctors to work in Xinjiang working from several months to a year every year following China's government policy. They are the best of the best doctors in China and their role is to treat local patients as well as train local medical personel.

Xinjiang is the runaway leader in Central Asia in health care social welfare.

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## haidian



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## TaiShang

More genocide.

**

*Desert poplars turn gold in Xinjiang, China*

CGTN




2018-11-08






The desert poplars in the Tarim Populus Euphratica National Forest Park recently turned gold, bringing vigor and vitality to the arid desert.

The Populus euphratica, commonly known as desert poplar or Euphrates poplar, is a magical species that can survive in extremely dry and cold areas. In China, the desert poplar are considered to be able to “live for a thousand years, then stand for a thousand years after death, then stay imperishable for another thousand years.”

The Tarim Populus Euphratica National Forest Park is located on the Tarim River on the northeast border of the Taklamakan Desert.* It is the oldest, largest and most complete reserve for desert poplars in the world.*

https://news.cgtn.com/news/3d3d674d78637a4d30457a6333566d54/share_p.html


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## haidian

*Government earthquake proof housing in rural Xinjiang*

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## Yankee-stani

Just wait for it they are camps not homes-VOA


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## haidian

*Government earthquake proof housing in rural Xinjiang*

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## Yankee-stani

haidian said:


>




I thought they banned headscarfs thats what VOA told me

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## rambro

Damn it why cant my government look into this area, the poor and below are left to rot on the streets

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## newb3e

according to Jee news a puddle of America "China build concentration camps for 80000 Muslims" 

Baboons on PDF ejaculating and thumping chest in joy!

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## Yankee-stani

newb3e said:


> according to Jee news a puddle of America "China build concentration camps for 80000 Muslims"
> 
> Baboons on PDF ejaculating and thumping chest in joy!



We must bomb Xinjiang like Afghanistan-chest pumpers on PDF


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## haidian

Green houses to grow some vegetable near their houses

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## GumNaam

YOU COMMUNIST BRUTES!!! 




all the Chinese Muslims should leave and migrate to india, the land of "freedom", milk, honey and modi...




^^^ now THIS is what you call "progress"!

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## zectech

oprih said:


> Oh no, China is harassing the muslims by giving them free homes.



So if you are a Muslim in China, you are taught in the Chinese language, can get a free home and learn Chinese dances.

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## haidian

zectech said:


> So if you are a Muslim in China, you are taught in the Chinese language, can get a free home and learn Chinese dances.


No, only poor families with the income below certain standard based on where you live, ethnicity is not a factor being considered.

China has similar programs in every province but because Xinjiang is very earthquake prone, so quake resistance is the priority for those houses.

After a major earthquake hit Tashkurgan, Xinjiang. Old houses all collapsed while the government built earthquake proof houses all stand, not even one was damaged. Luckily the families now live in the government built new houses and no one got hurt.
https://v.qq.com/x/cover/ej5q3cfjfqi5ai5/s0023hn6das.html

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## zectech

GumNaam said:


> all the Chinese Muslims should leave and migrate to india, the land of "freedom", milk, honey and modi...



Freedom to be the slaves of the formaldehyde faces. Slavery to the zionists is what you are offered in the West and what is being offered to India via trump, while Chinese look after the well being of the Chinese people.






The comments on the youtube section are good, as a Muslim points out: "the marry and reproduce (part) is all wrong." Another points out the zionists as the race of aliens trying to enslave mankind: "Oy vey, we need to shut down this movie."

The awake citizens of the West know the zionists are the slavers. While the zionists have their agents like Alex Jones to say that Muslims control the West via Saudi Arabia, and Alex spreads hatred of the Chinese. Alex Jones, the zionist, never names jews.

The place in the world where the people are taken care of and cared about is in China, not the West, the West where there is no freedom of speech.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang companies sign multimillion-dollar deals*

By Huang Lanlan in Shanghai Source:Global Times Published: 2018/11/8


Several companies based in Northwest China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region signed multimillion-dollar-contracts at the China International Import Expo (CIIE), and business representatives see the Belt and Road initiative (BRI) injecting new impetus into local economic growth, which contributes to local social stability. 

The Xinjiang-based clean energy company TBEA signed deals worth nearly 1 billion yuan ($144.3 million) with Swiss engineering group ABB, German discrete semiconductor and passive element producer Vishay, German power transformer producer MR and Japan's Mitsubishi Group at the expo. 

Being positioned as a key area of China's opening-up to the west region, as well as a "core area" on routes of the BRI, Xinjiang is benefiting from increasing Sino-foreign cooperation between enterprises that the BRI has attracted, local business representatives said. 

Zhang Xin, president of TBEA, told the Global Times the company insists on allocating resources globally. 

It selects and purchases raw materials and components from all over the world, and the CIIE provides a platform to buy products and technologies with higher quality and lower costs, Zhang said.

One component of the power transformer that TBEA produces for the BRI-related energy infrastructure projects, named tap-changer, is offered by the global transformer control solution provider German's MR.

"We've collaborated with Chinese enterprises including TBEA for many years, and we are looking forward to further participating in the BRI projects with our Chinese partners," MR Managing Director Michael Rohde told the Global Times on Thursday. 

Thanks to the BRI, Xinjiang has a very promising future, Zhang told the Global Times. 

"Companies in Xinjiang not only bring in more investments and advanced technologies but also further go global with our foreign partners," he said. 

"All these factors have contributed to the stable economy and social stability of today's Xinjiang," he added.

Xinjiang's GDP exceeded 1 trillion yuan ($144.2 billion) for the first time in 2017, when it grew 7.6 percent year-on-year, the Xinhua News Agency reported in February.

China's overall GDP grew 6.9 percent year-on-year in 2017, according to the National Bureau of Statistics.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1126658.shtml

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## Jlaw

GumNaam said:


> YOU COMMUNIST BRUTES!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> all the Chinese Muslims should leave and migrate to india, the land of "freedom", milk, honey and modi...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^ now THIS is what you call "progress"!


Amazing!



zectech said:


> Freedom to be the slaves of the formaldehyde faces. Slavery to the zionists is what you are offered in the West and what is being offered to India via trump, while Chinese look after the well being of the Chinese people.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The comments on the youtube section are good, as a Muslim points out: "the marry and reproduce (part) is all wrong." Another points out the zionists as the race of aliens trying to enslave mankind: "Oy vey, we need to shut down this movie."
> 
> The awake citizens of the West know the zionists are the slavers. While the zionists have their agents like Alex Jones to say that Muslims control the West via Saudi Arabia, and Alex spreads hatred of the Chinese. Alex Jones, the zionist, never names jews.
> 
> The place in the world where the people are taken care of and cared about is in China, not the West, the West where there is no freedom of speech.


He who controls money control tje world. They don't care if the American sheeple wake up because they (avg americans) can't do anything about it.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

China central gov and Xinjiang gov are raping Xinjiang people's rights by offering them free and more confotable houses!

*China central gov and Xinjiang gov are raping Xinjiang people's rights by offering them free and more confotable houses!*


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## haidian

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> China central gov and Xinjiang gov are raping Xinjiang people's rights by offering them free and more confotable houses!
> 
> *China central gov and Xinjiang gov are raping Xinjiang people's rights by offering them free and more confotable houses!*


No, their news were " China drives Uighurs out of their ancestrol homes". I was not kidding, I saw those reports mnay times. They don't want to see any development in Xinjiang and they wish those people forever being stuck in those earthquake trap mud houses with no electricity, running water and heating.

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## TaiShang

haidian said:


> No, their news were " China drives Uighurs out of their ancestrol homes". I was not kidding, I saw those reports mnay times. They don't want to see any development in Xinjiang and they wish those people forever being stuck in those earthquake trap mud houses with no electricity, running water and heating.



They want to see Xinjiang to become like Detroit or Los Angeles: Unsafe or dirty.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> They want to see Xinjiang to become like Detroit or Los Angeles: Unsafe or dirty.


Detroit is scary. Border guard warned me to head in the morning as it was dangerous at night.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

OsmanAli98 said:


> I thought they banned headscarfs thats what VOA told me


*China central gov and Xinjiang gov are raping Xinjiang people's rights by offering them free and more confotable houses!*
which means_ China xinjiang gov drives Uighurs out of their ancestrol homes_ by western medias!



Yingluck said:


> Unfortunately everything China does under the sun is evil, including building free house for poor.
> 
> https://www.hrw.org/news/2013/06/27/china-end-involuntary-rehousing-relocation-tibetans
> 
> The Chinese government is subjecting millions of Tibetans to a policy of mass rehousing and relocation that radically changes their way of life, and about which they have no say, Human Rights Watch said in a new report published today.
> 
> “The fiction that Tibetans enjoy any kind of autonomy under Chinese rule is laid bare by mass rehousing and relocation policies in which they have no say,” Richardson said. “Forging ahead with mass relocation and rehousing programs in a broadly repressive environment will only fuel tensions and widen the rift between Tibetans and the Chinese state.”


*China drives Uighurs and tibetains out of their ancestrol homes in western medias.
Like Huawei innovate in Chipsets, which means China steal US core techs while Huawei Kirin 980 leading the chipset world in 6 main fields.*

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## haidian

*Urumqi Xinjiang China Uygur شينجيانغ أورومكي، الصين 中国新疆乌鲁木齐*
*



*

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## haidian



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## zectech

Jlaw said:


> Amazing!
> 
> 
> He who controls money control tje world. They don't care if the American sheeple wake up because they (avg americans) can't do anything about it.



And if you are like Snowden or some other person exposing the lies and criminality of the Washington regime, you get targeted:





*Dr. Runi Kilde*: Surgeon General of the nation of Finland, medical doctor of three specialties and best-selling author of books about secret space programs, medical industry fraud, security-service-stalking and the quantum nature of the human mind, body and experience. *Dr. Kilde spent nearly half her life subjected to security-service-stalking*, because of her relentless dedication to medical ethics, scientific integrity, and public transparency. Dr. Kilde made it her business to seek out and expose deep-state crimes and plots in her seminars, books, and document disclosures. Her work serves as an invaluable resource of information, and historic documentation, for those seeking to expose and end security-service-stalking.






*Ramola Dharmaraj*: George Washington University English Professor, award winning Author, and currently, groundbreaking Investigative Journalist and Human Rights Activist. *Ramola became subjected to security-service-stalking in 2013 due to her involvement in human rights activism*. Ramola produces the Everyday Concerned Citizen website, and Ramola Reports YouTube channel — with a focus on exposing security-service-stalking, geo-engineering and other deep-state crime. With thousands of followers and relentless dedication, Ramola has become the leading journalist covering the security-service-stalking epidemic. She has relentlessly produced numerous groundbreaking articles, and video interview testimonials, with victims and whistle-blowers with impeccable grace and acumen since 2014.






*Karen Stewart*: NSA Intelligence Analyst of 28 years with top-secret security clearance. In the mid 2000s, a fellow NSA Intelligence Analyst attempted to claim ownership of Karen’s excellent work product. After Karen attempted to resolve this workplace fraud, *she became subject to a full blown security-service-stalking campaign*. Karen works closely with Ramola Dharmaraj, as a researcher, and provides invaluable insights as a 28 year veteran of the NSA. She is currently engaged in pursuing litigation to resolve her stalking circumstance and her case may provide key legal precedent that may be critical in publicly exposing these stalking crimes.





The Clinton's are a crime family that hunt down and kill anyone who gets in their way. And they are a microcosm of the Washington gang that sends out gang stalkers to anyone not following the zionist script. You have the choice in Amerika to vote for zionist Democrats and zionist Republicans and watch zionist CNN or zionist Faux News. If anyone seeks freedom of speech and information outside the reservation of that, and in the states and in Europe, there is a good chance they will be targeted. There are probably more people being targeted than people are aware, The first goal is intimidation, so targeted people may think there are alot of weirdos out there who act strange.

Nazi Germany does not have anything onto the thuggery that Washington has. It is not even close.

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## zectech

Jlaw said:


> Detroit is scary. Border guard warned me to head in the morning as it was dangerous at night.



How it happened...











the CIA had a program to send blacks into cities to break up the ethnic neighborhoods, because the various ethnic groups in the cities identified more with their religion and ethnicity than being a mindless anti-communist drone Washington wanted them to be.

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## Yankee-stani

zectech said:


> How it happened...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> the CIA had a program to send blacks into cities to break up the ethnic neighborhoods, because the various ethnic groups in the cities identified more with their religion and ethnicity than being a mindless anti-communist drone Washington wanted them to be.



That explains Why Italian Americans are no longer Italian in general but Greeks manage to surrvive tho

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## zectech

OsmanAli98 said:


> That explains Why Italian Americans are no longer Italian in general but Greeks manage to surrvive tho



In the 20th century, they went after the Catholics mainly because of this line of thinking:






If Catholics are having 10 kids and staying in a Catholic mindset, this mindset is an enemy of the zionist warmongering state. Catholics, were to the CIA - "weapons" of peace and sanity, so they sent in blacks to break up their ethnic neighborhoods, cause racial division, and the zionists moved in on both sides to indoctrinate them to their own purposes.

This is why China has to watch out about these zionists. They have no clue what kind of enemy zionists are to mankind.

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## Yankee-stani

zectech said:


> In the 20th century, they went after the Catholics mainly because of this line of thinking:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If Catholics are having 10 kids and staying in a Catholic mindset, this mindset is an enemy of the zionist warmongering state. Catholics, were to the CIA - "weapons" of peace and sanity, so they sent in blacks to break up their ethnic neighborhoods, cause racial division, and the zionists moved in on both sides to indoctrinate them to their own purposes.
> 
> This is why China has to watch out about these zionists. They have no clue what kind of enemy zionists are to mankind.



Catholics I speak too who are woke on J...wish subversion tend to blame Pope Pious for cucking church doctrine and making it a tool of neo cons in power Orthodoxy is mixed I dont trust the Russians they are in bed with the J..ws but pretend to be with anti-Zionists but the whole Ukrainian ,Georgian conflicts just baffles me


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## TMA

OsmanAli98 said:


> Catholics I speak too who are woke on J...wish subversion tend to blame Pope Pious for cucking church doctrine and making it a tool of neo cons in power Orthodoxy is mixed I dont trust the Russians they are in bed with the J..ws but pretend to be with anti-Zionists but the whole Ukrainian ,Georgian conflicts just baffles me


Think what you want of the Russians but Orthodox Christianity is not in bed with Zionism.
It was Western Christianity that underwent this rapprochement which led to the Judaeo-Christian Modern West and Zionism.

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## Yankee-stani

TMA said:


> Think what you want of the Russians but Orthodox Christianity is not in bed with Zionism.
> It was Western Christianity that underwent this rapprochement which led to the Judaeo-Christian Modern West and Zionism.



I am not saying all of of Orthodox believers are like that in fact I know many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs who are Orthodox and are woke on J..ws I am talking political connections between the leaders of the church and politicians in those countries who are zionist


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## TMA

OsmanAli98 said:


> I am not saying all of of Orthodox believers are like that in fact I know many Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs who are Orthodox and are woke on J..ws I am talking political connections between the leaders of the church and politicians in those countries who are zionist


Maybe...the politicians but as a civilisation/culture, Orthodox Russia is not Zionist. Yes USSR was and those effects linger on....but not Russia.

Russia is not part of the Judaeo-Christian West.

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## TaiShang

zectech said:


> And if you are like Snowden or some other person exposing the lies and criminality of the Washington regime, you get targeted:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Dr. Runi Kilde*: Surgeon General of the nation of Finland, medical doctor of three specialties and best-selling author of books about secret space programs, medical industry fraud, security-service-stalking and the quantum nature of the human mind, body and experience. *Dr. Kilde spent nearly half her life subjected to security-service-stalking*, because of her relentless dedication to medical ethics, scientific integrity, and public transparency. Dr. Kilde made it her business to seek out and expose deep-state crimes and plots in her seminars, books, and document disclosures. Her work serves as an invaluable resource of information, and historic documentation, for those seeking to expose and end security-service-stalking.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Ramola Dharmaraj*: George Washington University English Professor, award winning Author, and currently, groundbreaking Investigative Journalist and Human Rights Activist. *Ramola became subjected to security-service-stalking in 2013 due to her involvement in human rights activism*. Ramola produces the Everyday Concerned Citizen website, and Ramola Reports YouTube channel — with a focus on exposing security-service-stalking, geo-engineering and other deep-state crime. With thousands of followers and relentless dedication, Ramola has become the leading journalist covering the security-service-stalking epidemic. She has relentlessly produced numerous groundbreaking articles, and video interview testimonials, with victims and whistle-blowers with impeccable grace and acumen since 2014.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Karen Stewart*: NSA Intelligence Analyst of 28 years with top-secret security clearance. In the mid 2000s, a fellow NSA Intelligence Analyst attempted to claim ownership of Karen’s excellent work product. After Karen attempted to resolve this workplace fraud, *she became subject to a full blown security-service-stalking campaign*. Karen works closely with Ramola Dharmaraj, as a researcher, and provides invaluable insights as a 28 year veteran of the NSA. She is currently engaged in pursuing litigation to resolve her stalking circumstance and her case may provide key legal precedent that may be critical in publicly exposing these stalking crimes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Clinton's are a crime family that hunt down and kill anyone who gets in their way. And they are a microcosm of the Washington gang that sends out gang stalkers to anyone not following the zionist script. You have the choice in Amerika to vote for zionist Democrats and zionist Republicans and watch zionist CNN or zionist Faux News. If anyone seeks freedom of speech and information outside the reservation of that, and in the states and in Europe, there is a good chance they will be targeted. There are probably more people being targeted than people are aware, The first goal is intimidation, so targeted people may think there are alot of weirdos out there who act strange.
> 
> Nazi Germany does not have anything onto the thuggery that Washington has. It is not even close.



US regime does spying, tapping, harassing, silencing, false-flagging, conspiring, assassination, libel and slandering against their own citizens as well as internationally. 

But, their apparatus is very well developed and the regime-friendly media is an accomplice. 

So, most go unnoticed, or, forced to be forgotten quickly. Even Germans forgot that the US regime was spying on and stealing from their advanced industrial companies just recently .

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## Hamartia Antidote

OsmanAli98 said:


> That explains Why Italian Americans are no longer Italian in general but Greeks manage to surrvive tho



Actually I think it comes down to language. Not many third generation Italians can fluently speak Italian. Plus if say a second gen marries a non-Italian the chances are slim their kids will speak fluent Italian since..well..they aren't really Italian. This isn't just specific to Italians. Tons of people with German, French, Dutch, etc backgrounds who can't speak anything but English. Sad fact is many people who came over didn't want their kids to learn their native tongue because they didn't want them to be seen as a foreigner.

Unfortunately when in Rome..do what the Roman's do...speak Roman. In America..speak English. Will you lose your identity...probably. Religion...I suppose that's an individual choice.


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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> US regime does spying, tapping, harassing, silencing, false-flagging, conspiring, assassination, libel and slandering against their own citizens as well as internationally.
> 
> But, their apparatus is very well developed and the regime-friendly media is an accomplice.
> 
> So, most go unnoticed, or, forced to be forgotten quickly. Even Germans forgot that the US regime was spying on and stealing from their advanced industrial companies just recently .


US regime joins Somali and likes to become the only few countries with DECREASING life expectancy 
whilst their healthy life expectancy is already lower than China's.

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## TaiShang

AndrewJin said:


> US regime joins Somali and likes to become the only few countries with DECREASING life expectancy
> whilst their healthy life expectancy is already lower than China's.



And they have the audacity to lecture others about their human rights condition. 

I believe safety on the street, a good housing, and healthy life are all part and parcel of human rights.

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## AndrewJin

TaiShang said:


> And they have the audacity to lecture others about their human rights condition.
> 
> I believe safety on the street, a good housing, and healthy life are all part and parcel of human rights.


The US regime is now competing with Somali on which country has the quickest life expectancy decreasing rate...

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## Jlaw

AndrewJin said:


> US regime joins Somali and likes to become the only few countries with DECREASING life expectancy
> whilst their healthy life expectancy is already lower than China's.


But but I hear everyday Americans are most healthiest people on Earth. Why life expectancy lower than communist China?

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## AndrewJin

Jlaw said:


> But but I hear everyday Americans are most healthiest people on Earth. Why life expectancy lower than communist China?


It is God's decision.
In God we trust!

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## TaiShang

A bullet train runs past a wind power plant in Urumqi, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 16, 2014. Xinjiang has seen a surge in the electricity generation from clean energy. According to State Grid Xinjiang Electric Power Co., Ltd., wind and solar power generated 27.81 billion and 9.07 billion kilowatt hours (kwh) of electricity, respectively, in the first nine months of 2018 in the region. With abundant wind and solar resources, Xinjiang is a pioneer in using new energy in China, with installed new-energy capacity having exceeded 27 million kilowatts so far. [Photos: Xinhua]



Jlaw said:


> But but I hear everyday Americans are most healthiest people on Earth. Why life expectancy lower than communist China?



Communists also give its poor citizens a better infrastructure than 'muricans.

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang troops upgrade training to prepare for counter-terrorism, border patrol missions*

By Zhang Han Source:Global Times Published: 2018/11/12






Multi-type attack helicopters attached to an army aviation brigade with the PLA Xinjiang Military Command (MC) lift off for a coordinated flight training exercise in northwestern China's Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region on January 24, 2018. Photo: courtesy of Wu Shike

A Chinese army aviation brigade stationed in Northwest China's Xinjiang Province has upgraded its training in high-altitude and in adverse weather, *a move that experts say will facilitate counter-terrorism and border patrol missions in extreme environments. *

The brigade conducts 44 percent of its training at night. *High-altitude and tactics training increased by 40 percent compared to last year*, the Xinjiang Daily reported on Sunday. 

Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military analyst, told the Global Times on Monday that frequent exercises in an area with extreme weather and a complicated geographic environment prepare the military unit for different combat situations at any time. 

The biggest challenge for aviation units in Xinjiang is low visibility caused by sandstorms and contrasts in temperature between night and day, Wei said. 

"The training guarantees the aircraft are well maintained and soldiers are ready for combat," he noted. 

In addition to training under extreme weather conditions, the Army Aviation unit also improved takeoffs and landings under different conditions, like hillside slopes and narrow spaces. The stability of flights in valleys also improved, the newspaper reported.

The report said the 12-hour flight exercises have become a new norm, which Wei said "enhances the unit's ability to transfer soldiers at far distances within a short time span."

*The aviation forces will quickly deploy soldiers, and will therefore be "efficient in strikes against terrorist activities," Wei said.*

The region's long border and complicated topography means effective aviation forces are necessary in routine missions like border patrols, he noted. 

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1127007.shtml

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## TaiShang

A construction worker carries equipment on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





Construction worker Liu Quan works on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





Construction worker Wu Fei installs protective nets on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





A construction worker works on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)





Construction worker Wang Huaguo transfers protective nets on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)






A construction worker installs protective nets on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)

http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1113/c90000-9517549-6.html

***

_Poor people are being genocided by hanging on the cliff._

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## KAMDEV

TaiShang said:


> A construction worker carries equipment on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construction worker Liu Quan works on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construction worker Wu Fei installs protective nets on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A construction worker works on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Construction worker Wang Huaguo transfers protective nets on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A construction worker installs protective nets on a cliff at a road section in the Tajik Autonomous County of Taxkorgan, northwest China's Xinjiang Province, Nov. 12, 2018. The job of this team of construction workers is to install protective facilities on the cliff of risky road sections in the mountainous areas in Xinjiang, protecting pedestrians and vehicles from fallen stones. (Xinhua/Hu Huhu)
> 
> http://en.people.cn/n3/2018/1113/c90000-9517549-6.html
> 
> ***
> 
> _Poor people are being genocided by hanging on the cliff._


 
great work by chinese .


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Jlaw said:


> But but I hear everyday Americans are most healthiest people on Earth. Why life expectancy lower than communist China?


coz they got shot to death from times to time,sometimes 5 year old boy or gril dead ,and drug dealers kill 17 years old americains which make us average life expectancy lower and lower!
At least there no guns in chinese ordinary life,so really never heared one chinese get shot in half a year or even during a whole year!

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## eldamar

When u have enough to eat n enough to spend on life's necessities and luxuries, *u cant be bothered to create riots or engage in protests*.

Of cause, these have to come from one's williness to work hard for them, with opportunity provided by the country and not expecting an imaginary almighty being dropping sacks of wheat or baskets of fruits onto one's dinner table out of nowhere.

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## TaiShang

eldarlmari said:


> When u have enough to eat n enough to spend on life's necessities and luxuries, *u cant be bothered to create riots or engage in protests*.
> 
> Of cause, these have to come from one's williness to work hard for them, with opportunity provided by the country and not expecting an imaginary almighty being dropping sacks of wheat or baskets of fruits onto one's dinner table out of nowhere.



Definitely.

The key is middle class. I believe a bulk of US internal problems arises from the fast shrinking of their middle class.

Of course, some people are irremediable whether or not you give them good jobs, good infra, good education and overall good life chances. Those people just deserve to be eliminated in terms of their ideology as well as, at times, their physical existence.

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## oprih

Kudos to these guys, these measures are needed to ensure the safety of the citizens.

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## oprih

Nice, defend the motherland and hunt down all the terrorists and white spies.

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## TaiShang

oprih said:


> Nice, defend the motherland and hunt down all the terrorists and white spies.



They have only one option they can choose from one option: To go to heaven and meet the virgins (Lots of Kardashians).







(Western spies a.k.a journalists cannot have them )

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## beijingwalker

*Crazy!! China even has concentration camps for disabled Uyghurs in Xinjiang*

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## beijingwalker

*Check out how the camps for disabled people work in Xinjiang *

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## Beast

This is evil. According to western, this is inhuman and destroying their life..

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> *Crazy!! China even has concentration camps for disabled Uyghurs in Xinjiang*



How cruel! How come government helps these people help themselves and become independent, dignified individuals. God created them like this, and, in return, they will be awarded handsomely in heaven.

China takes away their heaven chances! 

BAD! (DT)

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## zectech

beijingwalker said:


> *Crazy!! China even has concentration camps for disabled Uyghurs in Xinjiang*



Watch the video and it "proves":

"The Chinese government solution for the Uyghurs is systematic extermination"

"The Uyghurs are the war on terror's worst sufferers"

"There is a holocaust of 6 million Uyghurs"

"The Chinese are burning Uyghurs in ovens by the 6 million"

"Chinese are selling shrunken heads of Uyghurs, in addition to making lampshades and soap out of Uyghurs"

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## TaiShang

zectech said:


>



This is a picture a brave BBC journalist dressed as tourist secretly took in Xinjiang last month.

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## Cybernetics

"Disabled Friends" is a great initiative!

The best thing a society can do for disabled people is to remove discriminatory sentiment towards them from their hearts. They are less fortunate to have been born with disabilities or suffered injury. People who mock should feel ashamed.

Sense of self worth often comes from the responsibility one burdens, people often want to feel valuable to society. Purely putting these people on welfare is not the way to go as it will damage their holistic well-being. People need meaningful work and/or hobbies.

There is nothing wrong with refusing a disabled person for a role that they are physically unable to fulfill, but what is important is that society views them as contributing members rather than a burden. Judge a person's fit in a role based on their ability. When society see disabled people as contributing members, society will become more open and helpful. Better than giving disabled people welfare would be to enable them to contribute to society and receive value back for their contributions.

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## HariPrasad

50 cent Army propaganda machinery in top gear mode.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

Indian rapists once again come as heros that want to save the world.

China gov is raping Xinjiang people's rights!
You are must be talking about the strict law forced by Chinese gov in Xinjiang
*1）Chinese government imposes one package of free milk per day to preschool kids in Xinjiang*
_Another violation of free choice human rights, In Urumqi, Xinjiang, the government forces preschool kids to have one free milk everyday, 240,000 preschool kids don't seem to have a choice but to deal with it._
*




Every 10 day each kid gets a box of free milk .


2）The Chinese government helps Xinjiang disabled people learn professional skills while mastering the means of making money.





3）The Chinese government provides housing for the poor families in Xinjiang free of charge.

Government earthquake proof housing in rural Xinjiang

















*

4）Chinese government, please come to my hometown Anhui to rape my fellow folks.

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## beijingwalker

HariPrasad said:


> 50 cent Army propaganda machinery in top gear mode.


I gusee see one, that's you.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

no,indians can not even afford 50 cents

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## TaiShang

*Xinjiang’s stability more important than pleasing the West*

Source:Global Times Published: 2018/11/16 

Reuters reported on Thursday that a group of 15 Western ambassadors in Beijing, including those from Canada, Australia and some EU member states, wrote a joint letter seeking a meeting with the top official of China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region over vocational training centers, which they called "re-education camps."

Intervention in Xinjiang affairs by Western countries has gradually intensified. Some Western politicians and media have shown a strong willingness to exert greater pressure on China. 

But in doing so, they must be aware of the link between their behavior and the attitude of international society, the wish of people in Xinjiang and the entire China, as well as their own capabilities.

The voices of some Western nations have lately been concentrated, but they represent the minority in the world. On Xinjiang affairs, China has been maintaining good communication with Islamic countries and the developing world. *Those who tend to stir up trouble are always the minority among Western countries, which hardly represents the world. To be more specific, they can only represent one voice on earth. *

The kind-hearted Chinese people do not wish to be caught up in any conflicts over human rights with any nation. If we can balance the feelings of Westerners and Chinese interests, Beijing is willing to meet them halfway. But the Xinjiang issue touched the bottom line of the interests of local ethnic groups and all other Chinese people.

Those Westerners should think about it. For people in Xinjiang and the entire China, which task is more important? Restoring social stability to avoid the spread of violence which could lead to a humanitarian disaster, or accept Western principles in exchange for a cease-fire on human rights conflicts between China and some Western countries? 

The vocational training centers have already had an immediate effect on the de-radicalization of Xinjiang society, which has been playing a decisive role in restoring peace and tranquility in the region. Why would Xinjiang listen to the fault-finding of the West, which contradicts reality?

Over the past few years, many violent terrorist incidents have erupted in the region. Fortunately, the efforts of officials and people of all ethnic groups have turned the table. *We don't mind if those Westerners do not help or give them their blessings.* But it is, indeed, irritating to see them stand on the opposite end of the fundamental interests of Xinjiang people. 

Regardless of how much pressure the West places on China, Xinjiang will stick to its own path. *Will far fewer lives be lost? Has stability been established? Has Xinjiang's comprehensive development been achieved? When history judges Xinjiang's governance, these will be the criteria.*

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1127723.shtml

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## rambro

By instigating Internal turnmoil it disrupts the targetted nation's progress n development if if not a total halt.

What is better than the tried n true ways of playing on religious card?

Doubt they want to be pleased but wants containment.

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## Nan Yang

Ancient Chinese proverb. A great man is not bothered with DOGS yelping at his feet.

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## beijingwalker

China doesn't not restrict Islam but extremism, China has other Mulim groups which have a bigger population than Uyghurs but they never had problems with the government.

The direct result of the Chinese policy now is Xinjiang becomes one of the most peaceful and safest places in whole China from being on the brink of a total chaos which terrorist attacks occurred on weekly basis barely a decade ago. Economy is booming and people's living standard skyrocketting, GDP growth highest in China. People around the world flock to Xinjiang for her peaceful environment and natural beauty, toursim now accounts for one third of Xinjiang's total GDP.

Local Xinjiang people now enjoy 15 years free education, school meals, daily dairy and accomodation from kingdergarten to high school, free healthcare, poor families are provided with earthquake resistant government housing.

Glisttering highways, highspeed railways, city subways now are second to none on this planet due to the recent neckbreaking development owing to Xinjiang's peaceful and safe environment.

Please tell me that's a failure. This failure is being dreamed of by most places in the world.

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## AndrewJin

Extremism is incompatible with China.
They can show their genius behaviours in Melbourne, Nice or Syria. not my concern.
The West shall enjoy it.

Tianshan Mountains, Xinjiang

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## kankan326

One thing I can never explain. When talking about Muslim problems, why the real problem makers, the Wahhabi spreaders like Saudi and Quatar, had never been criticized by media? It is always the Non-Muslim governments who response to terrorism expansion with iron fist that get criticized? And what annoyed me most is, Wahhabi spreaders are always on the critics list.
What's wrong with the world?

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## beijingwalker

AndrewJin said:


> Tianshan Mountains, Xinjiang



Are you sure this clip is not from a science fiction movie?

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## SME11B

beijingwalker said:


> China doesn't not restrict Islam but extremism, China has other Mulim groups which have a bigger population than Uyghurs but they never had problems with the government.
> 
> The direct result of the Chinese policy now is Xinjiang becomes one of the most peaceful and safest places in whole China from being on the brink of a total chaos which terrorist attacks occurred on weekly basis barely a decade ago. Economy is booming and people's living standard skyrocketting, GDP growth highest in China. People around the world flock to Xinjiang for her peaceful environment and natural beauty, toursim now accounts for one third of Xinjiang's total GDP.
> 
> Local Xinjiang people now enjoy 15 years free education, school meals, daily dairy and accomodation from kingdergarten to high school, free healthcare, poor families are provided with earthquake resistant government housing.
> 
> Glisttering highways, highspeed railways, city subways now are second to none on this planet due to the recent neckbreaking development owing to Xinjiang's peaceful and safe environment.
> Isn't everyone worship the Chinese communist party and xi jinping or else also an extremist position?
> Please tell me that's a failure. This failure is being dreamed of by most places in the world.


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## 艹艹艹

beijingwalker said:


> China doesn't not restrict Islam but extremism, China has other Mulim groups which have a bigger population than Uyghurs but they never had problems with the government.


The largest minority in China is the zhuang , and they are well integrated with China 's modern society

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## Place Of Space

I pray for another Chairman Mao comes back,  all those fking terrorism riots.

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## Jlaw

TaiShang said:


> *Xinjiang’s stability more important than pleasing the West*
> 
> Source:Global Times Published: 2018/11/16
> 
> Reuters reported on Thursday that a group of 15 Western ambassadors in Beijing, including those from Canada, Australia and some EU member states, wrote a joint letter seeking a meeting with the top official of China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region over vocational training centers, which they called "re-education camps."
> 
> Intervention in Xinjiang affairs by Western countries has gradually intensified. Some Western politicians and media have shown a strong willingness to exert greater pressure on China.
> 
> But in doing so, they must be aware of the link between their behavior and the attitude of international society, the wish of people in Xinjiang and the entire China, as well as their own capabilities.
> 
> The voices of some Western nations have lately been concentrated, but they represent the minority in the world. On Xinjiang affairs, China has been maintaining good communication with Islamic countries and the developing world. *Those who tend to stir up trouble are always the minority among Western countries, which hardly represents the world. To be more specific, they can only represent one voice on earth. *
> 
> The kind-hearted Chinese people do not wish to be caught up in any conflicts over human rights with any nation. If we can balance the feelings of Westerners and Chinese interests, Beijing is willing to meet them halfway. But the Xinjiang issue touched the bottom line of the interests of local ethnic groups and all other Chinese people.
> 
> Those Westerners should think about it. For people in Xinjiang and the entire China, which task is more important? Restoring social stability to avoid the spread of violence which could lead to a humanitarian disaster, or accept Western principles in exchange for a cease-fire on human rights conflicts between China and some Western countries?
> 
> The vocational training centers have already had an immediate effect on the de-radicalization of Xinjiang society, which has been playing a decisive role in restoring peace and tranquility in the region. Why would Xinjiang listen to the fault-finding of the West, which contradicts reality?
> 
> Over the past few years, many violent terrorist incidents have erupted in the region. Fortunately, the efforts of officials and people of all ethnic groups have turned the table. *We don't mind if those Westerners do not help or give them their blessings.* But it is, indeed, irritating to see them stand on the opposite end of the fundamental interests of Xinjiang people.
> 
> Regardless of how much pressure the West places on China, Xinjiang will stick to its own path. *Will far fewer lives be lost? Has stability been established? Has Xinjiang's comprehensive development been achieved? When history judges Xinjiang's governance, these will be the criteria.*
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1127723.shtml


The article sounds more like pleasing westerners.

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## SME11B

Place Of Space said:


> I pray for another Chairman Mao comes back,  all those fking terrorism riots.


And 100 million han chinese starve?

I said isn't insisting on the communist party line or the highway an extremist position?


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## Mista

kankan326 said:


> One thing I can never explain. When talking about Muslim problems, why the real problem makers, the Wahhabi spreaders like Saudi and Quatar, had never been criticized by media? It is always the Non-Muslim governments who response to terrorism expansion with iron fist that get criticized? And what annoyed me most is, Wahhabi spreaders are always on the critics list.
> What's wrong with the world?



Oil money. I look forward to the day when the world can cut the reliance on oil, and these countries will have to modernize and get rid of this cancerous ideology or risk sliding into irrelevance. Thankfully China is investing heavily in clean energy and building a comprehensive public transport network which cuts oil consumption. Meanwhile the US is still obsessed with suburbs and the automobile.

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## KediKesenFare3

China will be the first shared enemy of the Orient and Occident. In a strange way, such news are propitious for the Muslim world.


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## Mista

KediKesenFare said:


> China will be the first shared enemy of the Orient and Occident. In a strange way, such news are propitious for the Muslim world.



The 'Muslim world' is already the shared enemy of the Orient and Occident. Ask the common man on the street if they would rather China or the 'Muslim world' to have greater influence.

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## SME11B

Mista said:


> Oil money. I look forward to the day when the world can cut the reliance on oil, and these countries will have to modernize and get rid of this cancerous ideology or risk sliding into irrelevance. Thankfully China is investing heavily in clean energy and building a comprehensive public transport network which cuts oil consumption. Meanwhile the US is still obsessed with suburbs and the automobile.


It's called freedom, you know the ability to go where you want when you want. I know control freaks hate that.


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## Mista

SME11B said:


> It's called freedom, you know the ability to go where you want when you want. I know control freaks hate that.



And yet other countries with decent public transport network have the freedom to choose between automobile or public transport, you don't.

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## eldamar

KediKesenFare said:


> China will be the first shared enemy of the Orient and Occident. In a strange way, such news are propitious for the Muslim world.


Yes i agree.

Muslims are welcomed in Europe and the US. The Chinese are not.

Chinese refugee-populated slums and ghettoes exists throughout the UK, while Muslims stay in big bungalows and lavish mansions.

Chinese students are unwelcomed in the US, while Muslim ones are enticed to sign up for courses at prestigious educational insitutions.

Both the East and West dislike Chinese terrorists while welcoming afluent Muslim visitors.

Both the East and West prefer dealing with Muslim businesses than they are doing them with the Chinese.

The West prefers the Muslim concept of open-minded modernity than the narrow-minded theological culture of the Chinese.

Western women dislikes the Chinese medieval culture of enforcing their women to be covered from head to toe, while appreciating the Muslim world's universal suffrage and emancipation granted to Muslim women, allowing to wear whatever they like.

The West would love to be ridded of the Chinese, while embracing the Muslim world's vast similarity with them.

China is proscribed as public enemy number one, will the West and the Muslim world stand united hand in handhagainst Chinese terrorism.

The West and East both stand with the Muslim world against the Chinese.

Such a phenomenon is indeed favorable for the Muslim world.











Muslim modernity. The West appreciates the cultural freedom:





Chinese protestors. The West are tired of the Chinese:




Thanks.

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## TaiShang

KediKesenFare said:


> China will be the first shared enemy of the Orient and Occident. In a strange way, such news are propitious for the Muslim world.



As far as I know Turks are *already* hated by at least half of their neighbors some of which happen to be Muslim.

Any ambassador in Egypt and Syria, eh?

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## eldamar

TaiShang said:


> As far as I know Turks are *already* hated by at least half of their neighbors some of which happen to be Muslim.
> 
> Any ambassador in Egypt and Syria, eh?


Not an authoritative source, due to it being merely a Quora question, but the title alone gives ppl something to ponder about:

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Turkey-have-problems-with-almost-all-of-their-neighbouring-countries

Turkey has 14 neighbours, including immediate-sea-zone ones, and is only friends with 4 of them- Israel, Ukraine, Georgia and Iran.

Turkey's arch enemies:

1)Amernia- for the infamous https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

2)Greece- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation. Fought multiple wars with each other.

3)Bulgaria- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation. Bulgarian history is described as 'the Dark Ages' during that period.

4)Romania- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation.

5)Russia- Geopolitical arch rival for dominance and influence in the Black sea and is a backer of Slavic Balkans. An Underlying theological rivalry as well due to Constantinople aka Konstantinoyye aka Istanbul.

6)Cyprus- instigator and backer of the formation of Northern Cyprus.

All six are Christian nations. 4 of them in EU and are hence - 'the West'(which Turkey is dying to enter)

Hostile nations:

1)Iraq- Turkey violated Iraq's borders multiple times. Turkey even enacted a law for permission to be given to Turkish troops to cross the border into Iraq as when it pleases.

2)Syria- ongoing Syrian war. Violated Syrias border mutiple times, even sending troops to a tomb in Syria. Syria's Hatay annexation by Turkey.

3)Egypt- mutiple diplomatic crisis-es.Egypt even expelled the Turkish ambassador and recognised the Armenian Genocide.

Unfriendly nations:

1)Lebanon- inaction of Turkey towards Israel, not to mention Turkey and the Israel are even friends.

*All 4 above are Muslim states. Even Muslims are angry with their Muslim brother, Turkey.*

Friendly nations:

1)Ukraine- simply because both hated the Russians. Relations of convenience.

2)Georgia- again, both hated the Russians. Yet another relations of convenience.

3)Iran. The only true friendly neighbouring state.

4)Israel- together in bed only because of Israeli antagonism with Syria and Iraq.

2 of them Christian states, 1 of them Muslim and one Jewish.
*
All these are not to mention the fifth column in her midst, the Kurds. Turkey can lose 1/4 of her territory at anytime.*
Our Turkish friends prefer voicing out their opinion about Xinjiang across the steppes than to be focused on their 'Kurdish Problem' in their own house.

*So the Chinese are hated by both East and West, while the Turks are well-liked by everyone in her neighbourhood, including fellow Muslims.*

LoL.

Thanks.

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## Yankee-stani

eldarlmari said:


> Not an authoritative source, due to it being merely a Quora question, but the title alone gives ppl something to ponder about:
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Turkey-have-problems-with-almost-all-of-their-neighbouring-countries
> 
> Turkey has 14 neighbours, including immediate-sea-zone ones, and is only friends with 4 of them- Israel, Ukraine, Georgia and Iran.
> 
> Turkey's arch enemies:
> 
> 1)Amernia- for the infamous https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
> 
> 2)Greece- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation. Fought multiple wars with each other.
> 
> 3)Bulgaria- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation. Bulgarian history is described as 'the Dark Ages' during that period.
> 
> 4)Romania- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation.
> 
> 5)Russia- Geopolitical arch rival for dominance and influence in the Black sea and is a backer of Slavic Balkans. An Underlying theological rivalry as well due to Constantinople aka Konstantinoyye aka Istanbul.
> 
> 6)Cyprus- instigator and backer of the formation of Northern Cyprus.
> 
> All six are Christian nations. 4 of them in EU and are hence - 'the West'(which Turkey is dying to enter)
> 
> Hostile nations:
> 
> 1)Iraq- Turkey violated Iraq's borders multiple times. Turkey even enacted a law for permission to be given to Turkish troops to cross the border into Iraq as when it pleases.
> 
> 2)Syria- ongoing Syrian war. Violated Syrias border mutiple times, even sending troops to a tomb in Syria. Syria's Hatay annexation by Turkey.
> 
> 3)Egypt- mutiple diplomatic crisis-es.Egypt even expelled the Turkish ambassador and recognised the Armenian Genocide.
> 
> Unfriendly nations:
> 
> 1)Lebanon- inaction of Turkey towards Israel, not to mention LebanonLn the latter are even friends.
> 
> All 4 above are Muslim states. Even Muslims are angry with their Muslim brother, Turkey.
> 
> Friendly nations:
> 
> 1)Ukraine- simply because both hated the Russians. Relations of convenience.
> 
> 2)Georgia- again, both hated the Russians. Yet another relations of convenience.
> 
> 3)Iran. The only true friendly neighbouring state.
> 
> 4)Israel- together in bed only because of Israeli antagonism with Syria and Iraq.
> 
> 2 of them Christian states, 1 of them Muslim and one Jewish.
> *
> All these are not to mention the fifth column in her midst, the Kurds. Turkey can lose 1/4 of her territory at anytime.*
> 
> *So the Chinese are hated by both East and West, while the Turks are well-liked by everyone in her neighbourhood, including fellow Muslims.*
> 
> LoL.
> 
> Thanks.



You forgot Pakistan as an ally of Turkey


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## eldamar

OsmanAli98 said:


> You forgot Pakistan as an ally of Turkey


I'm was expanding on Turkey's neighbourhood which includes both of what constitutes the West and the East.

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## Yankee-stani

eldarlmari said:


> I'm was expanding on Turkey's neighbourhood which includes both of what constitutes the West and the East.



Iran and Turkey are more cordial tbh the Turks dont trust the Iranians and same with the Iranians be it on Syria,and Russia,and Israel only reason for cordialty is Turkey is energy dependent on Iran


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## name

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> Indian rapists once again come as heros that want to save the world.
> 
> China gov is raping Xinjiang people's rights!
> You are must be talking about the strict law forced by Chinese gov in Xinjiang
> *1）Chinese government imposes one package of free milk per day to preschool kids in Xinjiang*
> _Another violation of free choice human rights, In Urumqi, Xinjiang, the government forces preschool kids to have one free milk everyday, 240,000 preschool kids don't seem to have a choice but to deal with it._
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Every 10 day each kid gets a box of free milk .
> 
> 
> 2）The Chinese government helps Xinjiang disabled people learn professional skills while mastering the means of making money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 3）The Chinese government provides housing for the poor families in Xinjiang free of charge.
> 
> Government earthquake proof housing in rural Xinjiang
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> 4）Chinese government, please come to my hometown Anhui to rape my fellow folks.


Well, do they reference many dead hours ie vomiting blood ) why they're upset because they are jealous eat instant womb wicked wicked in dark hahaha

[QUOTE = "TaiShang, post: 10947553, thành viên: 156618"] *Sự ổn định của Tân Cương quan trọng hơn làm hài lòng phương Tây*

Nguồn: Global Times Xuất bản: 2018/11/16

Reuters đưa tin hôm thứ Năm rằng một nhóm 15 đại sứ phương Tây ở Bắc Kinh, bao gồm cả những người từ Canada, Úc và một số nước thành viên EU, đã viết một lá thư chung tìm kiếm một cuộc họp với quan chức hàng đầu của khu tự trị Tân Cương Uyghur của Trung Quốc. được gọi là "trại cải tạo".

Sự can thiệp vào các vấn đề Tân Cương của các nước phương Tây đã dần dần được tăng cường. Một số chính trị gia phương Tây và phương tiện truyền thông đã thể hiện sự sẵn sàng mạnh mẽ để gây áp lực lớn hơn đối với Trung Quốc.

Nhưng khi làm như vậy, họ phải nhận thức được mối liên hệ giữa hành vi của họ và thái độ của xã hội quốc tế, mong muốn của người dân ở Tân Cương và toàn bộ Trung Quốc, cũng như khả năng của chính họ.

Tiếng nói của một số quốc gia phương Tây gần đây đã được tập trung, nhưng họ đại diện cho thiểu số trên thế giới. Về vấn đề Tân Cương, Trung Quốc đã duy trì giao tiếp tốt với các nước Hồi giáo và thế giới đang phát triển. *Những người có xu hướng khuấy động rắc rối luôn là thiểu số trong số các nước phương Tây, mà hầu như không đại diện cho thế giới. Để cụ thể hơn, họ chỉ có thể đại diện cho một tiếng nói trên trái đất.*

Những người Trung Quốc tốt bụng không muốn bị cuốn vào bất kỳ mâu thuẫn nào về quyền con người với bất kỳ quốc gia nào. Nếu chúng ta có thể cân bằng cảm xúc của người phương Tây và lợi ích Trung Quốc, Bắc Kinh sẵn sàng gặp họ nửa chừng. Nhưng vấn đề Tân Cương đã chạm vào lợi ích cuối cùng của lợi ích của các nhóm dân tộc địa phương và tất cả những người Trung Quốc khác.

Những người phương Tây nên suy nghĩ về nó. Đối với những người ở Tân Cương và toàn bộ Trung Quốc, nhiệm vụ nào quan trọng hơn? Khôi phục sự ổn định xã hội để tránh sự lây lan của bạo lực có thể dẫn đến thảm họa nhân đạo, hoặc chấp nhận các nguyên tắc phương Tây để đổi lấy việc chấm dứt xung đột quyền con người giữa Trung Quốc và một số nước phương Tây?

Các trung tâm đào tạo nghề đã có ảnh hưởng ngay lập tức đến việc triệt tiêu xã hội Tân Cương, vốn đã đóng một vai trò quyết định trong việc khôi phục hòa bình và yên bình trong khu vực. Tại sao Tân Cương lại lắng nghe sự phát hiện lỗi của phương Tây, điều này mâu thuẫn với thực tế?

Trong vài năm qua, nhiều vụ khủng bố bạo lực đã nổ ra trong khu vực. May mắn thay, những nỗ lực của các cán bộ và nhân dân của tất cả các dân tộc đã chuyển sang bàn. *Chúng tôi không quan tâm nếu những người phương Tây không giúp đỡ hoặc ban cho họ phước lành của họ. *Nhưng nó thực sự là khó chịu khi thấy họ đứng ở phía đối diện với những lợi ích cơ bản của người Tân Cương.

Bất chấp áp lực Tây phương đặt ra ở Trung Quốc, Tân Cương sẽ dính vào con đường riêng của nó như thế nào. *Cuộc sống ít hơn sẽ bị mất? Sự ổn định đã được thiết lập chưa? Sự phát triển toàn diện của Tân Cương đã đạt được chưa? Khi lịch sử phán xét quản trị của Tân Cương, đây sẽ là tiêu chuẩn.*

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1127723.shtml [/ QUOTE]
Then China intervenes in the western United States, even in North America.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

name said:


> Well, do they reference many dead hours ie vomiting blood ) why they're upset because they are jealous eat instant womb wicked wicked in dark hahaha
> 
> [QUOTE = "TaiShang, post: 10947553, thành viên: 156618"] *Sự ổn định của Tân Cương quan trọng hơn làm hài lòng phương Tây*
> 
> Nguồn: Global Times Xuất bản: 2018/11/16
> 
> Reuters đưa tin hôm thứ Năm rằng một nhóm 15 đại sứ phương Tây ở Bắc Kinh, bao gồm cả những người từ Canada, Úc và một số nước thành viên EU, đã viết một lá thư chung tìm kiếm một cuộc họp với quan chức hàng đầu của khu tự trị Tân Cương Uyghur của Trung Quốc. được gọi là "trại cải tạo".
> 
> Sự can thiệp vào các vấn đề Tân Cương của các nước phương Tây đã dần dần được tăng cường. Một số chính trị gia phương Tây và phương tiện truyền thông đã thể hiện sự sẵn sàng mạnh mẽ để gây áp lực lớn hơn đối với Trung Quốc.
> 
> Nhưng khi làm như vậy, họ phải nhận thức được mối liên hệ giữa hành vi của họ và thái độ của xã hội quốc tế, mong muốn của người dân ở Tân Cương và toàn bộ Trung Quốc, cũng như khả năng của chính họ.
> 
> Tiếng nói của một số quốc gia phương Tây gần đây đã được tập trung, nhưng họ đại diện cho thiểu số trên thế giới. Về vấn đề Tân Cương, Trung Quốc đã duy trì giao tiếp tốt với các nước Hồi giáo và thế giới đang phát triển. *Những người có xu hướng khuấy động rắc rối luôn là thiểu số trong số các nước phương Tây, mà hầu như không đại diện cho thế giới. Để cụ thể hơn, họ chỉ có thể đại diện cho một tiếng nói trên trái đất.*
> 
> Những người Trung Quốc tốt bụng không muốn bị cuốn vào bất kỳ mâu thuẫn nào về quyền con người với bất kỳ quốc gia nào. Nếu chúng ta có thể cân bằng cảm xúc của người phương Tây và lợi ích Trung Quốc, Bắc Kinh sẵn sàng gặp họ nửa chừng. Nhưng vấn đề Tân Cương đã chạm vào lợi ích cuối cùng của lợi ích của các nhóm dân tộc địa phương và tất cả những người Trung Quốc khác.
> 
> Những người phương Tây nên suy nghĩ về nó. Đối với những người ở Tân Cương và toàn bộ Trung Quốc, nhiệm vụ nào quan trọng hơn? Khôi phục sự ổn định xã hội để tránh sự lây lan của bạo lực có thể dẫn đến thảm họa nhân đạo, hoặc chấp nhận các nguyên tắc phương Tây để đổi lấy việc chấm dứt xung đột quyền con người giữa Trung Quốc và một số nước phương Tây?
> 
> Các trung tâm đào tạo nghề đã có ảnh hưởng ngay lập tức đến việc triệt tiêu xã hội Tân Cương, vốn đã đóng một vai trò quyết định trong việc khôi phục hòa bình và yên bình trong khu vực. Tại sao Tân Cương lại lắng nghe sự phát hiện lỗi của phương Tây, điều này mâu thuẫn với thực tế?
> 
> Trong vài năm qua, nhiều vụ khủng bố bạo lực đã nổ ra trong khu vực. May mắn thay, những nỗ lực của các cán bộ và nhân dân của tất cả các dân tộc đã chuyển sang bàn. *Chúng tôi không quan tâm nếu những người phương Tây không giúp đỡ hoặc ban cho họ phước lành của họ. *Nhưng nó thực sự là khó chịu khi thấy họ đứng ở phía đối diện với những lợi ích cơ bản của người Tân Cương.
> 
> Bất chấp áp lực Tây phương đặt ra ở Trung Quốc, Tân Cương sẽ dính vào con đường riêng của nó như thế nào. *Cuộc sống ít hơn sẽ bị mất? Sự ổn định đã được thiết lập chưa? Sự phát triển toàn diện của Tân Cương đã đạt được chưa? Khi lịch sử phán xét quản trị của Tân Cương, đây sẽ là tiêu chuẩn.*
> 
> http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1127723.shtml [/ QUOTE]
> Then China intervenes in the western United States, even in North America.


The happiness and the development rights and the rights to become richer and happier of Xinjiang people are more important than pleasing western media!We do not give a shit on what western medias say.

Maybe indians do,japs do or even pakistani bros do a little bit,but we CHINA do not!

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## SME11B

Mista said:


> And yet other countries with decent public transport network have the freedom to choose between automobile or public transport, you don't.


Depends on where you are talking about.



Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> The happiness and the development rights and the rights to become richer and happier of Xinjiang people are more important than pleasing western media!We do not give a shit on what western medias say.
> 
> Maybe indians do,japs do or even pakistani bros do a little bit,but we CHINA do not!


You guys are tools the government doens't even pretend to care about your rights, I think that's what you should care about.


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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

SME11B said:


> Depends on where you are talking about.
> 
> 
> You guys are tools the government doens't even pretend to care about your rights, I think that's what you should care about.


The only gov care the rights of chinese people is chinese gov itself and you guys think gov is an intruder we think chinese gov is the head of our big family.
Are you saying americain gov care the chinese people rights more than china gov does,give us a break!!!
When Jap occupied north east China,what did americain yankees gov do?Nothing but continue to sell oil to jap army and navy and jap air force and made a forture of it!

It is the americain gov who does not give a shit on the rights of chinesesl people interests!

When we need medical assurance repayment,where is the americain gov?

When we need free shcool teaching,where is americain gov?

When our children need free foods and milks un school,where is the beloved americain gov?

When we need new infratrucures and more convinient public transit system,where is the beloved americain gov?

When we need police service in emergency where is the americian gov(i can assure you you will get shot to death service provided by americain policemen!!)??

LMAO that americain yankees gov will care the interests of chinese people!

Americain yankees gov care only how they can get interests from chinese people and chinese gov and the rest of the world by bombing the globe to please or flatter its voters.

My grandpa and my grandma who are living in Anhui rural areas can get 300USD per year each as elderly life wellbeing(I know it is not that much but 5 years ago there is nothing) as they are already 65 years old even they did not pay any social security fees during their lifetime,I guess americain gov can pay 500 USD or 1000USD to my grandpa and my grandma instead???

I am sure americain gov can pay 720 billions USD to continue bomb the globe and will augment this amount if necessary!!!Why not! Right!!


The only thing US gov can do is to pretend to care the rest of the world before and now,along with the Trump America Comes Frist Policy,US gov now even does not care to pretend to care the rest of the world any more!

AND you are nothing but a biased yankee who does not want to and does not care to respect other country culture and diversity!

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## shadows888

SME11B said:


> It's called freedom, you know the ability to go where you want when you want. I know control freaks hate that.



muhhh freedom wahhh wahh. you people are so brainwashed you can't even think let alone pee

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## beijingwalker

SME11B said:


> Depends on where you are talking about.
> 
> 
> You guys are tools the government doens't even pretend to care about your rights, I think that's what you should care about.


We care more about not being shot randomly walking on the street by random mass shooters than voting billionaires who got absolutely zero political experience into office to lead a huge nation.

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

This is how americain gov care the dead and missing americains around 1400 in total

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## SME11B

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> The only gov care the rights of chinese people is chinese gov itself and you guys think gov is an intruder we think chinese gov is the head of our big family.
> Are you saying americain gov care the chinese people rights more than china gov does,give us a break!!!
> When Jap occupied north east China,what did americain yankees gov do?Nothing but continue to sell oil to jap army and navy and jap air force and made a forture of it!
> 
> It is the americain gov who does not give a shit on the rights of chinesesl people interests!
> 
> When we need medical assurance repayment,where is the americain gov?
> 
> When we need free shcool teaching,where is americain gov?
> 
> When our children need free foods and milks un school,where is the beloved americain gov?
> 
> When we need new infratrucures and more convinient public transit system,where is the beloved americain gov?
> 
> When we need police service in emergency where is the americian gov(i can assure you you will get shot to death service provided by americain policemen!!)??
> 
> LMAO that americain yankees gov will care the interests of chinese people!
> 
> Americain yankees gov care only how they can get interests from chinese people and chinese gov and the rest of the world by bombing the globe to please or flatter its voters.
> 
> My grandpa and my grandma who are living in Anhui rural areas can get 300USD per year each as elderly life wellbeing(I know it is not that much but 5 years ago there is nothing) as they are already 65 years old even they did not pay any social security fees during their lifetime,I guess americain gov can pay 500 USD or 1000USD to my grandpa and my grandma instead???
> 
> I am sure americain gov can pay 720 billions USD to continue bomb the globe and will augment this amount if necessary!!!Why not! Right!!
> 
> 
> The only thing US gov can do is to pretend to care the rest of the world before and now,along with the Trump America Comes Frist Policy,US gov now even does not care to pretend to care the rest of the world any more!
> 
> AND you are nothing but a biased yankee who does not want to and does not care to respect other country culture and diversity!



Governments care about power, that's it. Everything is a means to that end. They want people to either think they care or that they are needed far more than they are. Even western leaders have an elitist attitude despite a more open culture and in the case of the US a culture of individual liberties. How much worse must it be in a place where government accountability is unheard of. Our media is so free they are often working against the nation and promoting damaging propaganda, that freedom would not exist in china. You must be like an insect, a hive not an individual but what kind of life is that? Even if I was provided for if I couldn't make choices for myself there is no dignity it's like being a pet. And china is trying to claim territory all around itself so don't act like it's only the US government misbehaving. Government is like fire, it has its place but should be controlled, it should not take the place of God.



shadows888 said:


> muhhh freedom wahhh wahh. you people are so brainwashed you can't even think let alone pee



Brainwashed into trying to maximize my own power and choices, I think I will stay brainwashed. Get back to your Xi jinping thought, in fact chinese shouldn't be on the internet that's uncensored it's dangerous.



beijingwalker said:


> We care more about not being shot randomly walking on the street by random mass shooters than voting billionaires who got absolutely zero political experience into office to lead a huge nation.


I'll bet far more people die from meat cleaver attacks in china than mass shootings in the US, ghettos don't count nobody cares about those sub humans. If they want to act like animals they can be treated like them. Isn't pollution and smog a huge health crisis in China to the point where it's measurably shortening peoples lives? BTW we didn't want a politician we are tired of the games the elites play. I hope next time we get someone who will really tear down the globalist system. Then we can be individuals. Don't trust those at the top they are always the most wicked, that's the kind of person allowed in that position.



Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> This is how americain gov care the dead and missing americains around 1400 in total


That number seems high, when the yellow river floods far more die.


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## dy1022

Mind your own fcuking business , losers from third world failure nations. Chinese land, Chinese rules. Or we’ ll bomb the Shiite out of you back to Stone Age.

He is a false flagger from South Asia.

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## beijingwalker

SME11B said:


> I'll bet far more people die from meat cleaver attacks in china than mass shootings in the US, ghettos don't count nobody cares about those sub humans. If they want to act like animals they can be treated like them. Isn't pollution and smog a huge health crisis in China to the point where it's measurably shortening peoples lives?



How many people die from stabbing in China and how many from shooting in US? Over 10,000 die of guns in US every year and you compare that with a dozen or less in China died from stabbing?

Big cities in China do have pollution problems but it's been improving very fast due to the government clean energy effort, China as a developing country with one fifth of the humanity enjoys longer healthy life span than Americans, US should be ashamed of this.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L

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## Place Of Space

SME11B said:


> And 100 million han chinese starve?
> 
> 
> I said isn't insisting on the communist party line or the highway an extremist position?



That's one of the good solutions to terrorism riots. What do you think of a better way?

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## TaiShang

beijingwalker said:


> How many people die from stabbing in China and how many from shooting in US? Over 10,000 die of guns in US every year and you compare that with a dozen or less in China died from stabbing?
> 
> Big cities in China do have pollution problems but it's been improving very fast due to the government clean energy effort, China as a developing country with one fifth of the humanity enjoys longer healthy life span than Americans, US should be ashamed of this.
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L



It is a probably third fake account of an Indian that was recently banned.

So, it is an Indian.

***


eldarlmari said:


> Not an authoritative source, due to it being merely a Quora question, but the title alone gives ppl something to ponder about:
> 
> https://www.quora.com/Why-does-Turkey-have-problems-with-almost-all-of-their-neighbouring-countries
> 
> Turkey has 14 neighbours, including immediate-sea-zone ones, and is only friends with 4 of them- Israel, Ukraine, Georgia and Iran.
> 
> Turkey's arch enemies:
> 
> 1)Amernia- for the infamous https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
> 
> 2)Greece- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation. Fought multiple wars with each other.
> 
> 3)Bulgaria- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation. Bulgarian history is described as 'the Dark Ages' during that period.
> 
> 4)Romania- long lasting hostility by the legacy of Ottoman occupation.
> 
> 5)Russia- Geopolitical arch rival for dominance and influence in the Black sea and is a backer of Slavic Balkans. An Underlying theological rivalry as well due to Constantinople aka Konstantinoyye aka Istanbul.
> 
> 6)Cyprus- instigator and backer of the formation of Northern Cyprus.
> 
> All six are Christian nations. 4 of them in EU and are hence - 'the West'(which Turkey is dying to enter)
> 
> Hostile nations:
> 
> 1)Iraq- Turkey violated Iraq's borders multiple times. Turkey even enacted a law for permission to be given to Turkish troops to cross the border into Iraq as when it pleases.
> 
> 2)Syria- ongoing Syrian war. Violated Syrias border mutiple times, even sending troops to a tomb in Syria. Syria's Hatay annexation by Turkey.
> 
> 3)Egypt- mutiple diplomatic crisis-es.Egypt even expelled the Turkish ambassador and recognised the Armenian Genocide.
> 
> Unfriendly nations:
> 
> 1)Lebanon- inaction of Turkey towards Israel, not to mention Turkey and the Israel are even friends.
> 
> *All 4 above are Muslim states. Even Muslims are angry with their Muslim brother, Turkey.*
> 
> Friendly nations:
> 
> 1)Ukraine- simply because both hated the Russians. Relations of convenience.
> 
> 2)Georgia- again, both hated the Russians. Yet another relations of convenience.
> 
> 3)Iran. The only true friendly neighbouring state.
> 
> 4)Israel- together in bed only because of Israeli antagonism with Syria and Iraq.
> 
> 2 of them Christian states, 1 of them Muslim and one Jewish.
> *
> All these are not to mention the fifth column in her midst, the Kurds. Turkey can lose 1/4 of her territory at anytime.*
> Our Turkish friends prefer voicing out their opinion about Xinjiang across the steppes than to be focused on their 'Kurdish Problem' in their own house.
> 
> *So the Chinese are hated by both East and West, while the Turks are well-liked by everyone in her neighbourhood, including fellow Muslims.*
> 
> LoL.
> 
> Thanks.



LOL, look at Turkey's universal love of neighbors. Everybody loves them and, in return, they love everybody so much so that they lack diplomatic relationship with a great number of neighbors. 

Such a feat! On the other hand, China and ASEAN just decided to upgrade the existing FTA into a comprehensive one. China and Indonesia signed a currency swap agreement. Just happened over the past week.

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## SME11B

beijingwalker said:


> How many people die from stabbing in China and how many from shooting in US? Over 10,000 die of guns in US every year and you compare that with a dozen or less in China died from stabbing?
> 
> Big cities in China do have pollution problems but it's been improving very fast due to the government clean energy effort, China as a developing country with one fifth of the humanity enjoys longer healthy life span than Americans, US should be ashamed of this.
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L[/QUOT
> China is not an open society so true stats would probably be harder to get especially if they were embarrassing. The average chinese has much less money per capita and almost no rights, especially if they can't afford a bribe.





Place Of Space said:


> That's one of the good solutions to terrorism riots. What do you think of a better way?


Well first of all using they are extreme is a hypocritical argument if you are backing the extremist communist party. I don't like muzzies either but they are not the only ones the chicom government oppresses.



beijingwalker said:


> How many people die from stabbing in China and how many from shooting in US? Over 10,000 die of guns in US every year and you compare that with a dozen or less in China died from stabbing?
> 
> Big cities in China do have pollution problems but it's been improving very fast due to the government clean energy effort, China as a developing country with one fifth of the humanity enjoys longer healthy life span than Americans, US should be ashamed of this.
> https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L


US has higher life expectancy, didn't take long to find that. 28% of deaths in china are from forms of cancer, china also has the highest number of strokes in the world, you can breath and your hearts are giving out something is wrong. I'm sure most of these only effect lower class poor chinese so there will be less uproar but they still count. I have seen a lot of vids with the stabbings and escalator accidents and so forth but don't know the stats. How are you going to say conditions are better than the US but also say china is a developing country? Doesn't make sense friend.


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## beijingwalker

SME11B said:


> US has higher life expectancy, didn't take long to find that. 28% of deaths in china are from forms of cancer, china also has the highest number of strokes in the world, you can breath and your hearts are giving out something is wrong. I'm sure most of these only effect lower class poor chinese so there will be less uproar but they still count. I have seen a lot of vids with the stabbings and escalator accidents and so forth but don't know the stats. How are you going to say conditions are better than the US but also say china is a developing country? Doesn't make sense friend.


China has a longer healthy life span than US :https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L
Although Chins is still a developing country but the government put more resources and care for improving people's well being, unlike US, waste so much money on waging wars around the world.
Traditionally East Asians are less violent than westerners and oriental countries tend to be safer, as for stabbing deaths, knives over 150mm are banned in China, 刀身长度超过150毫米的各类刀具, if any stabbing happens it will hit the headline news in Chinese media the next minute, overall they are very rare , besides, comparing stabbing with shooting is like the saying bringing a knife to a gun fight, they are not in the same category.

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## SME11B

beijingwalker said:


> China has a longer healthy life span than US :https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...s-for-healthy-lifespan-who-data-idUSKCN1IV15L
> Although Chins is still a developing country but the government put more resources and care for improving people's well being, unlike US, waste so much money on waging wars around the world.
> Traditionally East Asians are less violent than westerners and oriental countries tend to be safer, as for stabbing deaths, knives over 150mm are banned in China, 刀身长度超过150毫米的各类刀具, if any stabbing happens it will hit the headline news in Chinese media the next minute, overall they are very rare , besides, comparing stabbing with shooting is like the saying bringing a knife to a gun fight, they are not in the same category.



China has spent at least 5 billion on censoring chinese internet and more in spreading this censorship around the world. Why is china claiming all the land and water around it if it's so peaceful? Why all this military build up? Nobody was threatening to invade china. I think the "middle kingdom" needs another century of humiliation until it learns to coexist with others. If china saw economic interest in bombing someone they wouldn't hesitate.


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## TaiShang

Never go easy on terrorists until they are annihilated. 

***

*Xinjiang city urges terrorists to turn themselves in within 30 days*

By Zhang Hui Source:Global Times Published: 2018/11/19 


Authorities in Hami, Northwest China's Xinjiang Province, urged suspects of violence and terrorism and those influenced by the three evil forces of *separatism, extremism and terrorism* to surrender within 30 days for leniency. 

Local authorities listed 18 situations in which suspects should give themselves up, according to a notice published on the official WeChat account of Hami Cyberspace Affairs Commission on Sunday. 

*Those situations include recruiting people to establish terrorist groups or colluding with overseas terrorist groups, helping terrorists make weapons or explosives and raising funds or providing other needed help for terrorists.*

People who receive training from terrorist groups, or purchase maps, GPS, compasses, telescopes, ropes, tents or other training materials, and help download or provide links of audio, video, and text related to terrorism or offer VPN for overseas websites should surrender. 

*Those who send minor children or students to learn religious doctrine or advocate using the Koran to regulate normal life and reject Party officials should also turn themselves in*, and *those who get married or divorced using religious rites, commit bigamy or interfere with family planning policy in the name of religion should surrender. *

The Hami authorities also urged those who forbid others from watching television programs or induce others to boycott national preferential policies, such as rejecting government-subsidized housing or calling for a ban of goods, to give themselves up. 

All related suspects who surrender themselves within 30 days of the notice will be *eligible for lesser punishment.* They should turn themselves in to authorities by visiting police stations, procurators, courts, or by letter, telegram or phone, according to the notice. 

Xinjiang's Kashgar Prefecture also released a similar notice in 2017 urging people influenced by terrorism to surrender, and the notice said that *people who reported terrorism or violence related information could receive up to 5 million yuan ($720,000) as a reward*, according to the notice on Kashgar University's website. 

Such notice served to deepen the campaign of cracking down on terrorism in Xinjiang, as regional vocational training centers have achieved great success in anti-radicalization of Xinjiang society, Li Wei, a counter-terrorism expert at the China Institute of Contemporary International Relations in Beijing, told the Global Times. 

Some terrorists who surrender, instead of being put into prisons, may go to vocational training centers to learn practical skills, such as language and knowledge to better understand the religion, Li said.

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## beijingwalker

SME11B said:


> China has spent at least 5 billion on censoring chinese internet and more in spreading this censorship around the world. Why is china claiming all the land and water around it if it's so peaceful? Why all this military build up? Nobody was threatening to invade china. I think the "middle kingdom" needs another century of humiliation until it learns to coexist with others. If china saw economic interest in bombing someone they wouldn't hesitate.


First I don't know where you got that number, second, it really is for peace and stability, let facts speak, do you see violence or terrorist attacks and people die from them in recent years in Xinjiang anymore?

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## eldamar

Ya crush these extremists who commit violence n preach teachings in the guise of religion.

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## Place Of Space

SME11B said:


> Well first of all using they are extreme is a hypocritical argument if you are backing the extremist communist party. I don't like muzzies either but they are not the only ones the chicom government oppresses.
> 
> 
> US has higher life expectancy, didn't take long to find that. 28% of deaths in china are from forms of cancer, china also has the highest number of strokes in the world, you can breath and your hearts are giving out something is wrong. I'm sure most of these only effect lower class poor chinese so there will be less uproar but they still count. I have seen a lot of vids with the stabbings and escalator accidents and so forth but don't know the stats. How are you going to say conditions are better than the US but also say china is a developing country? Doesn't make sense friend.



Sometimes we need two types of management. Conciliation on the misleds and harder than terrorism rats. The education camp is to draw back some misleds, that is a good chance bring them back to normal life before too late. But to the firm terrorists, your backing-off is irresponsbile to all other kind people.

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## oprih

Xinjiang is a very beautiful province now with prosperous people, good to see that not a single province of China is being left behind when it comes to development. 

Other countries should take note, like turkey should stop financing terrorists and try to fix their collapsing economy.

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