# Turkey shoots down "Russian Jet" near border



## Frosty

*Turkey shoots down 'Russian jet' near Syrian border and video shows plane coming down*



*Turkey shoots down 'Russian jet' near Syrian border and video shows plane coming down | Middle East | News | The Independent*

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## Frosty



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## Akasa

Looks like it's either a MiG-23 or Su-24.

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## Malik Alashter

They said to pilot parachuted safely that means it is a sukhoi?!.

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## The-king

*Turkey shoots down 'Russian jet' near Syrian border and video shows plane coming down*






Turkey has shot down a military jet which it says violated its airspace near the Syrian border.

Turkish media reports described the plane as Russian, and video posted by the Haberturk TV station appeared to show the jet coming down in flames.

A military official in Turkey said the plane was shot down by Turkish F16s, and that the pilot was given prior warning. The fate of the pilots remains unclear.

According to CNN Turk, images posted to social media showed two pilots parachuting safely to the ground.
Turkey shoots down 'Russian jet' near Syrian border and video shows plane coming down | Middle East | News | The Independent

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## Vapnope

If it is a Russian Plane things are gonna get heat up in Turkey.

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## Kamil_baku

For those who has no idea about Turkish army capabilities... Russia simply cannot do anything about that. Two days ago, Russia started to bomb Turkish origin Turkmen people in Syria and captured their strategic location(it was taken back by Turkmen forces two days later), i think, this was the reason angered Turkey and wanted to warn Russia this way. The region is getting more danger...

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## Malik Alashter

Confirmed it is su-24 a bomber.

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## simple Brain

Turkey shoots down Russian jet for airspace violation near Syrian border - MIDEAST

here is the complete link, you can watch a video below!


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## Frosty

Better and longer video of the downed bomber.

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## C130

shot down with what a Aim-9 or Aim-120?


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## Frosty




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## simple Brain

This isn't a good news for the whole world, I know Turkey was frustrated with Russian actions but It ain't just seems right. God help us all....

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## Frosty

LATEST: Jet warned before being targeted, nationality of downed plane is yet unclear - Turkish military official http://on.rt.com/6xe7


URGENT: Turkish PM orders foreign ministry to consult with NATO,UN on latest developments on Syrian border- CNN Türk http://on.rt.com/6xe7

MORE: 2 pilots parachuting out of downed jet (VIDEO) (pic by @HaberturkTV) http://on.rt.com/6xe7

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## flamer84

Let's hope it's a Syrian plane.

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## Frosty

flamer84 said:


> Let's hope it's a Syrian plane.



*Russian* defense ministry confirms SU-24 jet shot down in Syria http://aje.io/4fnc

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## Malik Alashter

The Russian defense ministry affirmed it was Russian su-24.

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## cnleio

Mig-23 or Su-24 ... If Russian Su-24, there region will be more interesting  War for Russia !

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## Paksanity

Turkey has the right to defend its airspace. If after warning aircraft continues to violate Turkish airspace, TuAF should and did bring it down. Good job Turkish pilots!

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## The-king

Now again Russia was targeted by US proxy war another era of cold war.

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## flamer84

Frosty said:


> *Russian* defense ministry confirms SU-24 jet shot down in Syria http://aje.io/4fnc




Oh God...that will be an enourmous clusterfuck,especially if they shot it down in Syrian airspace and not Turkish...

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## C130

cnleio said:


> Mig-23 or Su-24 ... If Russian Su-24, there region will be more interesting  War for Russia !
> 
> View attachment 274375
> View attachment 274376




looks like a Su-24M2 with the white nose cone paint job

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## Tipu7

Let's hope we will see F16 vs Su30 action too.........

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## flamer84

The Russian MOD claims plane never left Syrian airspace.

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## cnleio

Pilot is safe ... but North Syria might controlled by ISIS or rebel force

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## Malik Alashter

The Russian MoD claim the plane downed by Missile from land based.

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## omega supremme

Well Russia won't be bringing an large Army in Syria to fight Turkey for just one aircraft and Turkey has a very capable army to defend it's lands

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## bobo6661

flamer84 said:


> The Russian MOD claims plane never left Syrian airspace.


Like they allways say like with a party of russians in ukraine captured by ukrainins enterd 50km in and saying they still in russia ...

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## IR1907

flamer84 said:


> Let's hope it's a Syrian plane.


Why ? Because you like to kiss jihadi butt ?

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## C130

right now a Mi-8 with Russia marines or spetnaz are searching for the downed pilots

su-30sm and other aircraft are heading there as well

this could heat up. especially if the pilots are captured or the SAR team runs into trouble.

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## haviZsultan

What will be fun is watching a US bird go down. They created every mess there is today.

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## flamer84

IR1907 said:


> Why ? Because you like to kiss jihadi butt ?




No Einstein,because the geopolitical clusterfuck would be minor that if it's a Russian one.

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## Windjammer

It's definitely an SU-24 Fencer, do Syrian operate the type. ??


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## HttpError

Ok here is the genisis of world war 3.

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## Vergennes

IR1907 said:


> Why ? Because you like to kiss jihadi butt ?


Because we do not want an escalation. I dont want to fight Russia for Turkey if they react...

@bobo6661 @flamer84 @mike2000 is back

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## flamer84

FrenchPilot said:


> Because we do not want an escalation. I dont want to fight Russia for Turkey if they react...
> 
> @bobo6661 @flamer84 @mike2000 is back




But if the jet was in Turk airspace they're well within their rights to shoot it down.Russians should be well advised not to violate NATO airspace.

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## salnamnaseem07

World war 3 is already begin

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## Serpentine

FrenchPilot said:


> Because we do not want an escalation. I dont want to fight Russia for Turkey if they react...
> 
> @bobo6661 @flamer84 @mike2000 is back



Considering the fact that a nutjob called Erdogan is sending every kind of dickhead terrorist to Syria to help establish a Muslim Brotherhood terror gang in Damascus, plus sending all kinds of weapons there. So if I were you, I wouldn't want to fight for someone like that either.

If it's a Russian jet, hopefully Russia will teach Erdogan and his gangs in Syria a lesson he never forgets.

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## TheNoob

flamer84 said:


> But if the jet was in Turk airspace they're well within their rights to shoot it down.Russians should be well advised not to violate NATO airspace.



I have full belief that russians arent trying to stir up trouble with nato directly.

So this could be the "Turkish" revenge from the hills a few days back.

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## Malik Alashter

flamer84 said:


> But if the jet was in Turk airspace they're well within their rights to shoot it down.Russians should be well advised not to violate NATO airspace.


The thing is that we as nations we want to quench the fire and focus in our war against the terrorism instead we fight each other.

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## Gibbs

If it was indeed a Russian jet and by the looks of it shot within Syrian air space.. Erdogan just fucked himself, Turkey and the whole region

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## C130

haviZsultan said:


> What will be fun is watching a US bird go down. They created every mess there is today.




don't blame the U.S blame Turkey 


though it's going to be funny when it's Russia that establishes a NO FLY ZONE over all of Syria.

just gotta bring in a battalion of S-300 or S-400s along with more Flankers

this would surely pee off the Turks

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## F117

Turkey wants to establish a no fly zone over northern Syria, lets see how far they can go.

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## haviZsultan

C130 said:


> don't blame the U.S blame Turkey


Turkey Pakistan... all countries that have sold their national interests for short term gains by joining the US coalition.

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## cnleio

WWIII maybe, NATO vs Russia ... or Turkey vs Russia

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## flamer84

The Russians say that they can prove the jet never left Syrian airspace.If it's true,Erdogan has F-ed up royally and he's on his own.

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## 500

Serpentine said:


> If it's a Russian jet, hopefully Russia will teach Erdogan and his gangs in Syria a lesson he never forgets.


LOL what can Russia do? Its not bombing helpless Georgia or rebels.

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## GBU-28

I don't think the Russians will respond. I think they know they violated airspace and will accept it.

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## Path-Finder

Ah man Why did WW3 have to begin today!

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## Amaa'n

what has really shocked me is the War mongering on this thread ----

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## 1ndy

Russians will bring in more and modern fighter bombers now. That's for sure.


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## Immanuel

Kamil_baku said:


> For those who has no idea about Turkish army capabilities... Russia simply cannot do anything about that. Two days ago, Russia started to bomb Turkish origin Turkmen people in Syria and captured their strategic location(it was taken back by Turkmen forces two days later), i think, this was the reason angered Turkey and wanted to warn Russia this way. The region is getting more danger...




Sorry but regardless of your military strength, your Govt. is full of pussies. Your President was so scared a couple of months back of ISIS that he had to call a emergency meeting in Brussels for NATO support. Your nation is essentially scared of rag tag group of terrorists. Nuff said, don't expect mercy from KGB, Turkey is about be roasted for thanks giving. From Russia with Love.

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## C130

haviZsultan said:


> Turkey Pakistan... all countries that have sold their national interests for short term gains by joining the US coalition.



Turkey has it's own plans

thinking that Turkey is a pawn of the U.S

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## -SINAN-

flamer84 said:


> The Russians say that they can prove the jet never left Syrian airspace.If it's true,Erdogan has F-ed up royally and he's on his own.



Russian plane violated Turkish airspace for 5 minutes despite 10 warnings. Shot down by 2 F-16s.

Edit: One of the pilots captured by Turkmen forces in Syria, they are looking for the second pilot.

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## cirr

Kamil_baku said:


> For those who has no idea about Turkish army capabilities... Russia simply cannot do anything about that. Two days ago, Russia started to bomb Turkish origin Turkmen people in Syria and captured their strategic location(it was taken back by Turkmen forces two days later), i think, this was the reason angered Turkey and wanted to warn Russia this way. The region is getting more danger...



A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。

Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。

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## untitled

cirr said:


> A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。
> 
> Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。


Is not Turkey part of NATO?

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## bobo6661

cirr said:


> A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。
> 
> Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。



Why are the Chines commens always so stupid ? Like it would not hit them to ...

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## cirr

balixd said:


> what has really shocked me is the War mongering on this thread ----



Things could turn out extremely ugly

No one knows what this might bring to the whole world。

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## Defender@@

Why would russia violate Turkish Airspace despite of warnings with a single bomber ? this is stupid claim by turks.... Either it was a mistake by russian aircraft which was penalized by Turkey wihtout warning or there was a mistake on part of turkey ...

In any case it is devastating ...

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## Arron Bert

I think Russia might this time going to attack the Turkey.

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## C130

Sinan said:


> Russian plane violated Turkish airspace for 5 minutes despite 10 warnings. Shot down by 2 F-16s.
> 
> Edit: One of the pilots captured by Turkmen forces in Syria, they are looking for the second pilot.


I hope Turkey can prove this with radar track and soon

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## monitor

I hope this will e eventually start third world war. I along will all member of pdf have missed ww2 .I hope we can enjoy the modern ww3

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## cirr

bobo6661 said:


> Why are the Chines commens always so stupid ? Like it would not hit them to ...



And you think you are somehow smarter than the Chinese, my Polish friend?

PS The same applies to Poland in case of a Russian invasion of your country. The US won't come your way to fight for you. You will be on your own.

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## simple Brain

Confirmed by the Turkish Defense Ministry that the shot plane was Su-24.


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## Gasoline

Sinan said:


> Russian plane violated Turkish airspace for 5 minutes despite 10 warnings. Shot down by 2 F-16s.



Defensive action by Turkey. Russia is the aggressor. World should blame the Russians for violating the airspace of Turkey. 

I don't see any mistake from Turkey. The Russians have been playing dangerous games and they got the response.

Neither Russians nor anybody can do a harm to Turkey, just relax with a cup of hot tea and laugh on the retarded Russians while they're searching for their pilots.

Well done brother.

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## pher

it would be a shame for russians if they don't respond strongly with force, and they should be.

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## untitled

monitor said:


> I hope this will e eventually start third world war. I along will all member of pdf have missed ww2 .I hope we can enjoy the modern ww3


 Why dont you enlist right away so you don't miss anything

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## Perpendicular

Wonder what would be the Russki response.
Indirect or Direct confrontation.

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> And you think you are somehow smarter than the Chinese, my Polish friend?
> 
> PS The same applies to Poland in case of a Russian invasion of your country. The US won't come your way to fight for you. You will be on your own.


We should thanks Turkey cancelled Sino-Turkey HQ-9 air-defence missile deal ... if war coming, that would make China feel embarrassed. Lucky HQ-9 can't hit Russia aircrafts.

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## F117

Perpendicular said:


> Wonder what would be the Ruskie response.
> Indirect or Direct confrontation.


Sinking a few Turkish ships in the Black Sea is a good response.

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## flamer84

Perpendicular said:


> Wonder what would be the Ruskie response.
> Indirect or Direct confrontation.




Direct confrontation is out of reach....this is not Georgia

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## -SINAN-

Defender@@ said:


> Why would russia violate Turkish Airspace despite of warnings with a single bomber ? this is stupid claim by turks.... Either it was a mistake by russian aircraft which was penalized by Turkey wihtout warning or there was a mistake on part of turkey ...
> 
> In any case it is devastating ...


They have done it before. This is not the first time.
Turkey Says Russian Fighter Jet Violated Its Airspace With Syria - WSJ

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## Rashid Mahmood

If the aircraft violated Turkish airspace, it was rightly shot down.

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## pher

The SiLent crY said:


> Good .
> 
> Erdogan will finally get Turkey fucked and I'm waiting for that day .
> 
> Eastern provinces already in a civil war , thousands of ISIS and Al Qaeda terrorists in southern borders who will break their chains one day and turn against their beloved Sultan , Kurds in Syria are another sad story let alone in Turkey itself and if we add Russia and Iran to that list ...
> 
> This is not a good way to bring back the glory of Ottoman Empire or the known wet dreams of Pan Turks Mr Recep Tayyip Erdoğan .


Don't forget China, it will definately back up russian and iran.

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## untitled

F117 said:


> Sinking a few Turkish ships in the Black Sea is a good response.


That is called using heavy handed tactics


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## simple Brain

I believe that the plane was shot from the ground.


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## -SINAN-

F117 said:


> Sinking a few Turkish ships in the Black Sea is a good response.


Turkish Navy can wipe out Russian black sea fleet within a day.

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## BDforever

flamer84 said:


> Direct confrontation is out of reach....this is not Georgia


and Russia is not coward, if Turkey hit Russian jet within Syrian airspace, then rain is coming down on Turkey and Erogan is going to cry foul to NATO

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## flamer84

BDforever said:


> and Russia is not coward, if Turkey hit Russian jet within Syrian airspace, then rain is coming down on Turkey and Erogan is going to cry foul to NATO




If Turkey proves with radar lock records that the jet was violationg its airspace than NATO must back Turkey up.

Russian GLONASS always has "a few glitches" when it's about Ukraine,Syria,Georgia.

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## Irfan Baloch

I


flamer84 said:


> Oh God...that will be an enourmous clusterfuck,especially if they shot it down in Syrian airspace and not Turkish...


 agree this is unfortunate turn of events
after Paris tragedy there was hope that world forces will join against the death cult but this seems going down the drain

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## Ahmed95

Two F16 were involved in the downing of SU 24, which was shot at after repeated warnings. Russian MOD. Source CNN

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## simple Brain

Gasoline said:


> Defensive action by Turkey. Russia is the aggressor. World should blame the Russians for violating the airspace of Turkey.
> 
> I don't see any mistake from Turkey. The Russians have been playing dangerous games and they got the response.
> 
> Neither Russians nor anybody can do a harm Turkey, just relax with a cup of hot tea and laugh on the retarded Russians while they're searching for their pilots.
> 
> Well done brother.



lol everyone is going to laugh at your comment, don't you realize where you from by the way?

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## BDforever

Sinan said:


> They have done it before. This is not the first time.
> Turkey Says Russian Fighter Jet Violated Its Airspace With Syria - WSJ


even BBC is reporting that Turkey shot down Russian jet in Syrian airspace, you are fked up



flamer84 said:


> If Turkey proves with radar lock records that the jet was violationg its airspace than NATO must back Turkey up.
> 
> Russian GLONASS always has "a few glitches" when it's about Ukraine,Syria,Georgia.

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## surya kiran

Serpentine said:


> If it's a Russian jet, hopefully Russia will teach Erdogan and his gangs in Syria a lesson he never forgets.


If this is true, I will not be surprised if the Russian and Syrian forces start pushing the loonies back into Turkey. That will be something to watch. Loonies in NATO territory.

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## Perpendicular

flamer84 said:


> Direct confrontation is out of reach....this is not Georgia


Then I think Indirect would be the worse case scenario for Turkey. It will bring turkey directly into the syrian quagmire. Even so called NATO allies won't be able to do much in that case if Russia decides to back up elements into Turkey.

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## omega supremme

ANKARA: Turkey confirmed that it shot down a Russian warplane Tuesday, claiming it had violated Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings. Russia denied that the plane crossed the Syrian border into Turkish skies.

“We are looking into the circumstances of the crash of the Russian jet,” Russia's Defence Ministry said. “The Ministry of Defence would like to stress that the plane was over the Syrian territory throughout the flight. “

Russia said the Su-24 was downed by artillery fire, but Turkey claimed that its F-16s fired on the Russian plane after it ignored several warnings.

The ministry said the pilots parachuted but added that Moscow had no further contact with them.

One of the pilots of the warplane was in the hands of Turkmen forces in Syria who were searching for the other pilot, broadcaster CNN Turk reported, citing local sources.

A Turkish military statement said the plane entered Turkish airspace over town of Yaylidag, in Hatay province. It said the plane was warned 10 times within the space of 5 minutes.

Rami Abdurrahman, who heads the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, said the warplane crashed in the Turkmen Mountains region in the coastal province of Latakia.

The Turkomen Mountains region has been subjected to a government offensive in recent days under the cover of Russian airstrikes.

Last month, Turkish jets shot down an unidentified drone that it said had violated Turkey's airspace

Footage from private broadcaster Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it. The plane went down in area known by Turks as “Turkmen Mountain” in northern Syria near the Turkish border, Haberturk said.

Separate footage from Turkey's Anadolu Agency showed two pilots parachuting out of the jet before it crashed.

Russia has repeatedly carried out air strikes in Syria in defence of President Bashar al-Assad. Russia's defence ministry was not immediately available for comment.

Turkey called this week for a UN Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighbouring Syria, and last week Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest the bombing of their villages.

Ankara has traditionally expressed solidarity with Syrian Turkmens, who are Syrians of Turkish descent.

The warplane shot down by Turkey near the Syrian border on Tuesday was a Russian-made SU-24, Turkish presidential sources said, adding it was downed in line with Turkey's rules of engagement after violating Ankara's airspace.

President Tayyip Erdogan has been briefed by the head of the military and will talk to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, the sources said.

Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has spoken with the chief of military staff and the foreign minister about the developments on the Syrian border, the prime minister's office said in a statement, without mentioning the downed jet.

He has ordered the foreign ministry to consult with Nato, the United Nations and related countries on the latest developments, his office said.


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## Indos

Even Indonesia is dare to have their jet fighter (F-16) get a long dog fight with 5 USA F 18 near Bawean island during Bush jr administration. We even shot down US plane during Soekarno time. 

So it is a norm already that any big country like Indonesia and Turkey has always had a gut to fight even when it has to deal with country like USA or Russia. 

So, nothing serious should come up with this event. Turkey and Russia should talk over this and since there is no serious casualties over this incident so it should be handled in peaceful way.

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## The-king

Irfan Baloch said:


> I
> 
> agree this is unfortunate turn of events
> after Paris tragedy there was hope that world forces will join against the death cult but this seems going down the drain


Agreed with you i will seriously hampered the efforts to eliminate ISIS, i believe Muslims countries preferring their internal interests more than ISIS eradication, i am sad that from now ISIS will grew more powerful since the countries have power to eliminate ISIS will start fighting each other and let the ISIS unintended.

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## Irfan Baloch

Tipu7 said:


> Let's hope we will see F16 vs Su30 action too.........


you think and write like a Dodo ( a bird that became extinct due to its limited mental grasp of things).
what you are hoping for is a disaster with very big consequences

So

I pray that it never happens and this unfortunate event doesn't escalate the hostilities into direct and intense military confrontation.

here on one hand we had Russians supporting French in targeting ISIS and now a NATO member decides to shoot down its plane.. for whatever reasons.. it could have been escorted out by Turkish Jets (if indeed it was in Turkish airspace) instead of blowing it up.

this event has just given a new lease of life to the ISIS death cult and its supporters must be celebrating in their palaces now.

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## simple Brain

These are the days of war, first of all Russians are not stupid to violate the Turkish Air space , infect they don't have to, and for instance if we accept Russia did, than Turkey should have shown a maturity, a political solution is best way to avoid any big conflict between the two Nations.

Russian infect destroyed a massive oil filed in Syria couple of days ago and that has caused a permanent pause on Oil supply to several Countries, should we say that this was the reaction from Turkey?

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## Irfan Baloch

The-king said:


> Agreed with you i will seriously hampered the efforts to eliminate ISIS, i believe Muslims countries preferring their internal interests more than ISIS eradication, i am sad that from now ISIS will grew more powerful since the countries have power to eliminate ISIS will start fighting each other and let the ISIS unintended.


and more disappointing is that of all the countries.. it was Turkey which is being used by some Arab countries as a front. it was Pakistan and now Turkey and the terrorist proxies will continue its death reign

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## IR1907

flamer84 said:


> No Einstein,because the geopolitical clusterfuck would be minor that if it's a Russian one.


It was hard to judge considering your previous pro-Islamist posts.

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## A.Muqeet khan

cirr said:


> A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。
> 
> Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。



Its not gonna come to that yet. But we are headed that way within 5 years i can swear on that.


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## The-king

Perpendicular said:


> Then I think Indirect would be the worse case scenario for Turkey. It will bring turkey directly into the syrian quagmire. Even so called NATO allies won't be able to do much in that case if Russia decides to back up elements into Turkey.


US against Russian operation and Turkey got full backing from Nato and i believe this will start new divides in so called super powers eventually helps ISIS to grow further., very sad and tragic development. I am foreseen emerging block of France, Russia and China. A new era of cold war.

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## Ankit Kumar

For all thePDF members thinking about WW3, Nothing will happen. Pakistan too had shot down Mig23s and Su22s of Russia over Afghanistan during the Russian invasion ..... Russia had ignored it that time.

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## IR1907

500 said:


> LOL what can Russia do? Its not bombing helpless Georgia or rebels.


Turn it into a nuclear wasteland

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## Perpendicular

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669091438953496576

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## Beast

omega supremme said:


> ANKARA: Turkey confirmed that it shot down a Russian warplane Tuesday, claiming it had violated Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings. Russia denied that the plane crossed the Syrian border into Turkish skies.
> 
> “We are looking into the circumstances of the crash of the Russian jet,” Russia's Defence Ministry said. “The Ministry of Defence would like to stress that the plane was over the Syrian territory throughout the flight. “
> 
> Russia said the Su-24 was downed by artillery fire, but Turkey claimed that its F-16s fired on the Russian plane after it ignored several warnings.
> 
> The ministry said the pilots parachuted but added that Moscow had no further contact with them.
> 
> One of the pilots of the warplane was in the hands of Turkmen forces in Syria who were searching for the other pilot, broadcaster CNN Turk reported, citing local sources.
> 
> A Turkish military statement said the plane entered Turkish airspace over town of Yaylidag, in Hatay province. It said the plane was warned 10 times within the space of 5 minutes.
> 
> Rami Abdurrahman, who heads the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, said the warplane crashed in the Turkmen Mountains region in the coastal province of Latakia.
> 
> The Turkomen Mountains region has been subjected to a government offensive in recent days under the cover of Russian airstrikes.
> 
> Last month, Turkish jets shot down an unidentified drone that it said had violated Turkey's airspace
> 
> Footage from private broadcaster Haberturk TV showed a warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it. The plane went down in area known by Turks as “Turkmen Mountain” in northern Syria near the Turkish border, Haberturk said.
> 
> Separate footage from Turkey's Anadolu Agency showed two pilots parachuting out of the jet before it crashed.
> 
> Russia has repeatedly carried out air strikes in Syria in defence of President Bashar al-Assad. Russia's defence ministry was not immediately available for comment.
> 
> Turkey called this week for a UN Security Council meeting to discuss attacks on Turkmens in neighbouring Syria, and last week Ankara summoned the Russian ambassador to protest the bombing of their villages.
> 
> Ankara has traditionally expressed solidarity with Syrian Turkmens, who are Syrians of Turkish descent.
> 
> The warplane shot down by Turkey near the Syrian border on Tuesday was a Russian-made SU-24, Turkish presidential sources said, adding it was downed in line with Turkey's rules of engagement after violating Ankara's airspace.
> 
> President Tayyip Erdogan has been briefed by the head of the military and will talk to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu, the sources said.
> 
> Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has spoken with the chief of military staff and the foreign minister about the developments on the Syrian border, the prime minister's office said in a statement, without mentioning the downed jet.
> 
> He has ordered the foreign ministry to consult with Nato, the United Nations and related countries on the latest developments, his office said.



The shot down aircraft crashed in Syria province. How can it be in Turkish airspace? I long know Turkish support ISIS. Now they are openly giving them air cover.

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## Nilgiri

LOL at the morons thinking this is the start of World War 3.

Look at the Russian rehearsed message. They knew this would happen probably at some point and had planned a statement to create confusion on purpose so that direct blame need not be targetted at Turkey....and clamour for retaliation could be appropriately mitigated.


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## -SINAN-

BDforever said:


> even BBC is reporting that Turkey shot down Russian jet in Syrian airspace, you are fked up



Official General Staff announcement:

" At November 24, 2015 9:20 in Yayladağı Hatay region, an aircraft with unknown nationality has repeatedly violated Turkish Airspace despite the warnings (10 times within five minutes) .

"Within the scope of the rules of engagement, at November 24, 2015 09.24 two F-16 aircrafts which have been on patrolling duty, intervened."

Announced with respect to the public.

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## Tipu7

Irfan Baloch said:


> you think and write like a Dodo ( a bird that became extinct due to its limited mental grasp of things).
> what you are hoping for is a disaster with very big consequences
> 
> So
> 
> I pray that it never happens and this unfortunate event doesn't escalate the hostilities into direct and intense military confrontation.
> 
> here on one hand we had Russians supporting French in targeting ISIS and now a NATO member decides to shoot down its plane.. for whatever reasons.. it could have been escorted out by Turkish Jets (if indeed it was in Turkish airspace) instead of blowing it up.
> 
> this event has just given a new lease of life to the ISIS death cult and its supporters must be celebrating in their palaces now.



It was just a light comment which I made in hurry as by lunch was waiting for me. 
Of course I know the consequences of this event as it will tighten their relations again and NATO Russian coalition against ISIS will break before creation......


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## Nilgiri

Beast said:


> The shot down aircraft crashed in Syria province. How can it be in Turkish airspace?



There's such a thing as linear momentum. An aircraft doesnt just plonk down over the spot it got hit.

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## The-king

Irfan Baloch said:


> and more disappointing is that of all the countries.. it was Turkey which is being used by some Arab countries as a front. it was Pakistan and now Turkey and the terrorist proxies will continue its death reign


 All the countries become hypocrites Turkey is our brother Islamic country but sad to say this is the most unfortunate decision taken by our brother, Kurd can be handle later but letting ISIS grow not sane decision. turkey should learn from our past mistakes once uncle Sam got what they want they will let Turkey all alone against Kurds, ISIS and Russian.

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## Beast

58 users and 129 guest reading this thread at the same time. A record.

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## -SINAN-

Irfan Baloch said:


> it could have been escorted out by Turkish Jets (if indeed it was in Turkish airspace) instead of blowing it up.


Russian jet didn't respond to the warnings, and keep violating the Turkish airspace (for 5 minutes)

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## BDforever

Sinan said:


> Official General Staff announcement:
> 
> " At November 24, 2015 9:20 in Yayladağı Hatay region, an aircraft with unknown nationality has repeatedly violated Turkish Airspace despite the warnings (10 times within five minutes) .
> 
> "Within the scope of the rules of engagement, at November 24, 2015 09.24 two F-16 aircrafts which have been on patrolling duty, intervened."
> 
> Announced with respect to the public.


CNN reporting, Shot down jet fall within Syrian border, what does it mean ?


Beast said:


> 58 users and 129 guest reading this thread at the same time. A record.


no, it was about 450 ppl were watching when terrorist killed students in pakistan

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## The-king

BDforever said:


> CNN reporting, Shot down jet fall within Syrian border, what does it mean ?


Its mean more propaganda more fuel to burn.

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## Beast

Sinan said:


> Russian jet didn't respond to the warnings, and keep violating the Turkish airspace (for 5 minutes)


Of cos, it never respond becos it is within syria airspace. Turkish just learn how to lie from the American. Like how Iraq got WMD.

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## The-king

Beast said:


> Of cos, it never respond becos it is within syria airspace. Turkish just learn how to lie from the American. Like how Iraq got WMD.


May be after the hit jet tries to enter Syrian airspace.


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## like_a_boss

#*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey*
*

*

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## Perpendicular

Putin to make a statement soon.

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## bobo6661

BDforever said:


> CNN reporting, Shot down jet fall within Syrian border, what does it mean ?


 It means more viewers...


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## Irfan Baloch

simple Brain said:


> Russian infect destroyed a massive oil filed in Syria couple of days ago and that has caused a permanent pause on Oil supply to several Countries, should we say that this was the reaction from Turkey?


you might not be that much off

you see ISIS is selling this oil and allegedly making $50 million a day or a month .. and the buyer is turkey and then this oil is going to EU.. this is why those oil refineries and depots in Iraq or Syria were never targeted before.. Mousel is under ISIS control and it will be hard to see any news of targeting this biggest oil refinery under ISIS control.
although , to be fair, now American Hornets are targeting ISIS fuel trucks so there may be a change of heart on the part of NATO that never seemed to do much to ISIS source of funds.
ISIS also claims that the money it makes from selling Oil in black market is used to buy weapons from FSA .. ISIS showed off its American and German weapons it got from FSA.

so what a mindfck clusterfck is that? @flamer84

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## 帅的一匹

Turkey premier's daughter opened up a hospital dedicated to heal ISIL injury, we all know that. Prepare to receive the revenge fury from Russia, once again Turkey is not mature at all. If Turkey think they can protect ISIL by attacking Russian fighter, they are wrong. Wish the Uncle Sam will give candy to pat his little brother. I strongly advocate China shall send fighter jets to bomb the *** off of ISIL to support Russia.

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## flamer84

On a lighter note, @atatwolf dreams of Turkey being a Russian gas hub for Europe just ...."went down in flames"...so to speak.

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## Perpendicular

like_a_boss said:


> #*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey*
> *
> View attachment 274394
> *


That was not the plane in the picture that went down. I think

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## 500

Beast said:


> The shot down aircraft crashed in Syria province. How can it be in Turkish airspace? I long know Turkish support ISIS. Now they are openly giving them air cover.


U obviously skipped physics lessons in school. Jet flying at high altitude with 900-1000 km/h speed can easily fly over 10 km after being shot.

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## BDforever

like_a_boss said:


> #*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey*
> *
> View attachment 274394
> *


confusing picture

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## bobo6661

like_a_boss said:


> #*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey*
> *
> 
> *



buhashahaha this is a photo from MH-17 crash

Russian TV Channel Blames Internet For Suckering It Into Running A Fake Photo Of A Ukrainian Jet Shooting Down Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 | Techdirt

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## cnleio

like_a_boss said:


> #*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey*
> *
> View attachment 274394
> *


Where is Su-24 ? ... only see F-16 and Su-30sm, this satellite photo not like true, coz ‘F-16’ outline looks more like another Flanker

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## flamer84

Irfan Baloch said:


> so what a mindfck clusterfck is that? @flamer84



One's mind could explode trying to find out who's who in Syria.

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## Vergennes

@Irfan Baloch @flamer84 @bobo6661 

When the Russians violated our airspaces,we send our aircrafts to intercept theirs,we escort them til they leave,and everything stops here. And their jets would be downed if they are considered as dangerous. 
We don't want an escalation over some stupid things.

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## IR1907

wanglaokan said:


> Turkey premier's daughter opened up a hospital dedicated to heal ISIL injury, we all know that. Prepare to receive the revenge fury from Russia, once again Turkey is not mature at all. If Turkey think they can protect ISIL by attacking Russian fighter, they are wrong. Wish the Uncle Sam will give candy to pat his little brother. I strongly advocate China shall send fighter jets to bomb the *** off of ISIL to support Russia.


Aside from all the heroic statements i think the interests and even more important the ''investments'' are far more important than a downed jet. Money talks.

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## 帅的一匹

Nilgiri said:


> LOL at the morons thinking this is the start of World War 3.
> 
> Look at the Russian rehearsed message. They knew this would happen probably at some point and had planned a statement to create confusion on purpose so that direct blame need not be targetted at Turkey....and clamour for retaliation could be appropriately mitigated.


Russians will make Turkic pay in some way, wait and see. Turkic hate Kurds, And Kurds kill ISIL.

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## IR1907

flamer84 said:


> One's mind could explode trying to find out who's who in Syria.


Easy.

Radical Islamists try to enslave people and there are people who try to resist them.


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## SipahSalar

Russia can't do anything about it.

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## flamer84

FrenchPilot said:


> @Irfan Baloch @flamer84 @bobo6661
> 
> When the Russians violated our airspaces,we send our aircrafts to intercept theirs,we escort them til they leave,and everything stops here. And their jets would be downed if they are considered as dangerous.
> We don't want an escalation over some stupid things.




True,it happened to us also and we just send our old Migs to escort them.We were actually joking that the Russians are doing it just to exhaust the few life hours the 21's still have in them.

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## Nilgiri

*Reports Russian pilot of downed jet 'captured'*





BBC Monitoring

*Syrian activists have been quoted as saying that one of the pilots of the Russian Su-24 has been captured. He is said to be being held in the mountainous Utayrah area in Turkmen Mount, Qatar-based Al-Jazeera Arabic TV reports.*

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## Irfan Baloch

Sinan said:


> Russian jet didn't respond to the warnings, and keep violating the Turkish airspace (for 5 minutes)


whatever the reason... I wish it could have been avoided.
I am not accustomed with military aerospace protocol. American F-15s have been escorting out Russian long range bombers for decades.
I care more for Turkey and I also welcome( *qualified*) Russian role in Middle east as a counter balance as well and specially in the fight against ISIS.. I see this event as a big blow to any possible alliance or understanding.

I pray that next time Russian bombers dont come with Russian top line fighter escort. the winners will be ISIS and their wahabi supporters in case of any escalation of violence

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## 帅的一匹

IR1907 said:


> Aside from all the heroic statements i think the interests and even more important the ''investments'' are far more important than a downed jet. Money talks.


Those leaders are pushover. If I were the chairman, ISIL is doomed. They consider too much about money and forget the responsibility it has. Lots of Chinese are supporting aggressive move toward ISIL.

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## -SINAN-

BDforever said:


> CNN reporting, Shot down jet fall within Syrian border, what does it mean ?





Beast said:


> Of cos, it never respond becos it is within syria airspace. Turkish just learn how to lie from the American. Like how Iraq got WMD.



You don't have access to radar signatures. So, just wait....

Radar signature map will be announced as we did before when we downed Syrian Mi-17





At that time too, Helicopter was shot in Turkish airspace and fell into Syrian land. Although it was a helicopter.

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## jaiind

Syria is a land of proxy wars


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## Irfan Baloch

FrenchPilot said:


> @Irfan Baloch @flamer84 @bobo6661
> 
> When the Russians violated our airspaces,we send our aircrafts to intercept theirs,we escort them til they leave,and everything stops here. And their jets would be downed if they are considered as dangerous.
> We don't want an escalation over some stupid things.


yes I have noted that earlier . this has been happening since USSR times. the planes will be intercepted and escorted 
out and even we escorted out Indian jets in the past normally they come and go quickly.

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## 帅的一匹

Irfan Baloch said:


> whatever the reason... I wish it could have been avoided.
> I am not accustomed with military aerospace protocol. American F-15s have been escorting out Russian long range bombers for decades.
> I care more for Turkey and I also welcome( *qualified*) Russian role in Middle east as a counter balance as well and specially in the fight against ISIS.. I see this event as a big blow to any possible alliance or understanding.
> 
> I pray that next time Russian bombers dont come with Russian top line fighter escort. the winners will be ISIS and their wahabi supporters in case of any escalation of violence


They are not unhappy with Russian jets violating their airspace, they are unhappy with Russians bombing ISIL. Do anyone think Turkey has the necessity to field itself against Ruusia without USA's dictations? That is the point Turkey is a puppet regime in NATO.

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## -SINAN-

FrenchPilot said:


> ,we escort them til they leave


So, would you allow them to travel in your airspace for an hour although they are not responding to the radio contact and in full armament ?

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## Max

Well done Turkey... do it again if they violate again...

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## bobo6661

FrenchPilot said:


> When the Russians violated our airspaces,we send our aircrafts to intercept theirs,we escort them til they leave,and everything stops here. And their jets would be downed if they are considered as dangerous.
> We don't want an escalation over some stupid things.


Maby thats why they do not take us seriously...

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## Irfan Baloch

500 said:


> U obviously skipped physics lessons in school. Jet flying at high altitude with 900-1000 km/h speed can easily fly over 10 km after being shot.


I agree and this is why during Soviet occupation of Afghanistan... PAF was careful in targeting the violating jets to ensure that the debris will still fall within Pakistani area.

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## Nilgiri

Irfan Baloch said:


> whatever the reason... I wish it could have been avoided.



Same here.



Irfan Baloch said:


> I am not accustomed with military aerospace protocol. American F-15s have been escorting out Russian long range bombers for decades.



Difference is that those bombers never entered America airspace (though America did several violations yearly in the 50s till the Soviets developed more fighter bases, radars and SAMs...and then after this continued with U-2s and blackbirds (esp after gary powers) till detente kicked in). At most some USSR bombers and a/c entered American ADZ's.

However the Turks are claiming this particular plane entered Turkish airspace and stuck around ignoring warnings to leave.

It reminds me of the atlantique incident actually.



Irfan Baloch said:


> I care more for Turkey and I also welcome( *qualified*) Russian role in Middle east as a counter balance as well and specially in the fight against ISIS.. I see this event as a big blow to any possible alliance or understanding.



Lets wait and see what the Russian reaction is. Turkey is part of NATO so I doubt anything too major is going to happen.



Irfan Baloch said:


> I pray that next time Russian bombers dont come with Russian top line fighter escort. the winners will be ISIS and their wahabi supporters in case of any escalation of violence



Russia should stick to well within Syrian airspace to be extra-careful to avoid such incidents...or come to some agreement about airspace buffers with Turkey. The former is more likely to happen....and no I don't think Russia is going to escalate this to something really drastic....their economy and logistics are not going to be able to support it.

However if Russia comes out with a major unrelenting stance that the jet was within Syrian airspace and they dont let that slide....they could definitely escalate this. We will have to wait and see.

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## 帅的一匹

Sinan said:


> So, would you allow them to travel in your airspace for an hour although they are not responding to the radio contact and in full armament ?


You don't even realize you guys are in shit trouble man, better find a place to hide. This time you become scapegoat for USA once again. A Muslim NATO country is not right from the first beginning.

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## Vergennes

bobo6661 said:


> Maby thats why they do not take us seriously...



Even the US is doing the same.... During the cold war era it was also the same thing. 
@flamer84 At least it permits our pilots to do something.

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## -SINAN-

flamer84 said:


> True,it happened to us also and we just send our old Migs to escort them.We were actually joking that the Russians are doing it just to exhaust the few life hours the 21's still have in them.


Addition to the my reply to Frenchpilot's post. We changed our rule of engagement in Syrian border in 2012 when Syria downed our jet. And General Staff's announcement was "aircraft with unknown nationality"... we downed a mig and mi-17 in the same border before. Russian's should have been more clever.



wanglaokan said:


> , they are unhappy with Russians bombing ISIL



Russia was bombing Turkmen Mountain when we downed their jet, not ISIS. And we told them not to.....

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## Tipu7

I believe losing a jet against Turkish is bad for Russians.
But if ISIS managed to capture the ejected pilots then things will turn very tragic..... ISIS will not show any mercy........ And as a result, Russians will also respond in more power full way.......


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## 帅的一匹

I know Russian will revenge, it's their characteristics. If they don't , they are not Russians.

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## Archdemon

Nothing dramatic will happen, unlike Turks which are hotheaded Russians are calculated and rational, in war you have casualties, this minor incident is, well it is minor, business as usual for Russians.

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## Irfan Baloch

Sinan said:


> So, would you allow them to travel in your airspace for an hour although they are not responding to the radio contact and in full armament ?


you are talking to another fellow NATO countryman. I believe you share the same protocols?
why the disagreement and confusion?

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## IR1907

wanglaokan said:


> I know Russian will revenge, it's their characteristics. If they don't , they are not Russians.


They f.ucked up Ukraine because of the illegal coupdetat.


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## BDforever

Sinan said:


> Russia was bombing Turkmen Mountain when we downed their jet, not ISIS. And we told them not to.....


is not that in Syrian area ?

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## The-king

Archdemon said:


> Nothing dramatic will happen, unlike Turks which are hotheaded Russians are calculated and rational, in war you have casualties, this minor incident is, well it is minor, business as usual for Russians.


No i don't think so they might consider it act of war if the plane shot down withing Syrian border, In case if the Russian just wanted to know the Turkish mood they will do nothing otherwise coming days will be roller coaster for the new.


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## Salza

F16 you beauty! 

What a marvel of a plane no wonder PAF is also so fond of it.

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## 帅的一匹

Tipu7 said:


> I believe losing a jet against Turkish is bad for Russians.
> But if ISIS managed to capture the ejected pilots then things will turn very tragic..... ISIS will not show any mercy........ And as a result, Russians will also respond in more power full way.......


It's very unnecessary that Turks get themselves involved in such a mess, they won't dare to do it without USA's support. Russian bomb ISIL, and then Turkey shoot down Russian fighters. It's very obvious who is supporting the terrorist. Even a three years old child can tell it.

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## Max

abp94 said:


> Time to take down this ISIS supporter Turkey and support the Kurds




@Irfan Baloch @TaimiKhan

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## -SINAN-

Tipu7 said:


> But if ISIS managed to capture the ejected pilots then things will turn very tragic..... ISIS will not show any mercy........


Not ISIS, Tukmens in Syria, they have no-connection with ISIS. They are fighting against ISIS.

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## abp94

mkn_91 said:


> @Irfan Baloch @TaimiKhan


I don't see how saying Turkey supports ISIS which is a fact is against any rules. Don't think this forum supports terrorist nations

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## -SINAN-

BDforever said:


> is not that in Syrian area ?


Yeap, but they are our ethnic brothers. Like Cyprus Turks.

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## BDforever

Sinan said:


> Yeap, but they are our ethnic brothers. Like Cyprus Turks.


well then Russian claim was right, you are fked up


FrenchPilot said:


> "Rebels" showed a picture of a dead Russian pilot.


@FrenchPilot check this

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## -SINAN-

Irfan Baloch said:


> you are talking to another fellow NATO countryman. I believe you share the same protocols?
> why the disagreement and confusion?


Who knows....


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## abp94

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669098577524822016
Proof that Turkey shot down the plane in Syria

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## oproh

This will be embarrassing for Russia if they won't retaliate. Russia needs to at least bomb some turkish military facilities to get even.

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## Max

abp94 said:


> I don't see how saying Turkey supports ISIS which is a fact is against any rules. Don't think this forum supports terrorist nations




u piece of shit show ur real flags before calling them terrorist supporter..

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## flamer84

Ironically,just a few months ago the Russians were ranting about what superb jamming devices a Su-24 has and how it jammed a US Aegis equipped destroyer leading to its marines quitting in panic.

And now reality sets in....F16 comes,F16 fires a missile.........Su-24 bites the dust.Next !

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## TheNoob

Sinan said:


> Not ISIS, Tukmens in Syria, they have no-connection with ISIS. They are fighting against ISIS.



You armed them.
Is that the right thing to do "In another" country?

Seriously, you armed another ragtag group while theres a war torn country fighting for its sovereignty.
So obvoiusly they'll bomb them too.
Unless ofcourse, They'd side up with the govt but nahhh, the masters dont want it that way.

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## 帅的一匹

Sinan said:


> Not ISIS, Tukmens in Syria, they have no-connection with ISIS. They are fighting against ISIS.


Only Kurds fight with ISIL, that's simple and plain.

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## Ice Cube

all future Russian bombing sorties should have fighter escort from now on.


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## abp94

mkn_91 said:


> u piece of shit show ur real flags before calling them terrorist supporter..


Are you Turkish? Check my location through IP, Pakistani

Typical Turk fan

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## Vapnope

Turkey may or may not be supporting ISIS directly but one thing is clear they take Kurdish people as more threat than the people of IS.

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## GBU-28

FrenchPilot said:


> "Rebels" showed a picture of a dead Russian pilot.



Link?


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## abp94

Dead Russian pilot with anti-Assad terrorists who also support ISIS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669095688907702272
Warning:Graphic

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## Gazprom

oproh said:


> This will be embarrassing for Russia if they won't retaliate. Russia needs to at least bomb some turkish military facilities to get even.



They will not do it immediately . But then the first steps of World war 3 have started. I expect strategic aviation assault ,Hypersonic weapons usage and narrowband HPM usage in the Turkish arena. A few properly placed cruise missiles on command and control and then standard follow up of mass bombardment . High possibility of usage of tactical nukes also.

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## Max

Economic superpower said:


> Russia should drop 2 nukes on Turkey.




Why? 2 nukes for 1 jet.. i think they should go for joint investigation so they can find who was responsible for this incident... Turkey or Russia...


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## Vapnope

This thread has become a war zone already, from fighter plane, SAM's and nukes. I see where this is going.



GTM900 said:


> Russia should detonate a few 100 of their old cold war era 25 to 30 Megaton warheads over each and every Turkish city and wipe out at least 200 million Turkic men,women and children.


Is that a sarcasm? I sincerely hopes so.


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## BDforever

red: plane flying track
blue: Turkish border
boxzone: where shot down
source: Official Turkish military


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## Arsalan

Tipu7 said:


> Let's hope we will see F16 vs Su30 action too.........


don't act stupid!


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## GBU-28

abp94 said:


> Dead Russian pilot with anti-Assad terrorists who also support ISIS
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669095688907702272
> Warning:Graphic



Thanks. RIP.

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## flamer84

FrenchPilot said:


> "Rebels" showed a picture of a dead Russian pilot.




RIP if true.

I still hope it's fake.The pilots being alive and safely released will somehow manage the crisis.With them dead the outrage in Russia would be huge.

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## 帅的一匹

GTM900 said:


> Russia should detonate a few 100 of their old cold war era 25 to 30 Megaton warheads over each and every Turkish city and wipe out at least 200 million Turkic men,women and children.


They will retaliate in some way, definitely nuke is not included.

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## -SINAN-

Radar signature shows that Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace.






Pink dot on the left shows the point where the Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace and the pink dot on the left when it got out.

Russian pilot's dead body found by Turkmen forces in Syria.

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## abp94

Russian spokesman
“It would be incorrect to make any evaluations or statements until we have the full information. So we just need to show patience. It’s a very serious event. But, without the full information it’s impossible to say anything, it wouldn’t be right.”


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## Husnainshah

I'm not believing this Turkey crap. It's NATO and more precisely U.S. where the orders to shoot down a Russian place must have come from. Afraid this act isn't gonna go unnoticed by Putin.

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## 帅的一匹

flamer84 said:


> RIP if true.
> 
> I still hope it's fake.The pilots being alive and safely released will somehow manage the crisis.With them dead the outrage in Russia would be huge.


If the pilots are dead, then the polar bear will be in zealous mode.

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## flamer84

GTM900 said:


> Russia should detonate a few 100 of their old cold war era 25 to 30 Megaton warheads over each and every Turkish city and wipe out at least 200 million Turkic men,women and children.




Turkey has 80 million population you nucklehead.

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## abp94

@Sinan

Interesting part is not whether it violated territory but where it was brought down

That is not in Turkey

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## Ankit Kumar

Russian reply will surely depend upon the posture of Beijing. 
And knowing the Chinese, I can say they will not give a go ahead for this. 
This will end with more rigorous bombing of ISIS, support to Kruds in Turkey and covert warfare.


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## 帅的一匹

Husnainshah said:


> I'm not believing this Turkey crap. It's NATO and more precisely U.S. where the orders to shoot down a Russian place must have come from. Afraid this act isn't gonna go unnoticed by Putin.


A Muslim country being NATO member, it's unaccepted and a shame. It hurts Muslim's fame.

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## The-king

*Russia searches for pilots from jet downed by Turkey as reports claim they are in rebel hands*
A major rescue operation has been launched to bring back two Russian pilots whose jet was shot down over hostile Syrian territory by the Turkish military.

Russia and Turkey have both dispatched helicopters to search for the downed pilots, who were seen in amateur video footage parachuting to safety.

But the airmen are also being hunted by rebel Turkmen and Nusra Front forces, whose territories in the northern countryside of Latakia province have been repeatedly targeted by Russian and Syrian regime bombing raids in recent weeks.
Moscow said it had received no further contact from the pilots since their plane went down, and has sent a fleet of military helicopters to the site of the crash near the Turkish border.

But according to CNN Turk, citing local sources, one of the pilots has already fallen into Turkmen hands and the other is being sought.

Grainy footage posted online by the Hurriyet Daily News outlet purported to show Russian helicopters scouring a wooded, mountainous region near the Turkish-Syrian border.
At least two graphic images were posted to social media purporting to show one of the pilots lying dead, but they have been met with scepticism and remain unconfirmed. A video claiming to show a pilot being captured was proven to be at least two years old.

Footage from private Turkish broadcaster Haberturk TV showed the warplane going down in flames in a woodland area, a long plume of smoke trailing behind it.
Russia searches for pilots from jet downed by Turkey as reports claim they are in rebel hands | Middle East | News | The Independent


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## Dino

russia excuse for getting into ukraine is to safe their russian brothers right? well when russia started syrian turkmen for weeks now and turkey warned them, did russia think turkey was bluffing?

well the moral of the story is very simple. turkey is not syria iraq lebanon or iran where putin can play his games on those airspaces. if you invade turkish airspace you will get the ottoman slap

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## -SINAN-

abp94 said:


> @Sinan
> 
> Interesting part is not whether it violated territory but where it was brought down
> 
> That is not in Turkey


Yeah, i noticed that too.


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## Max

Sinan said:


> Radar signature shows that Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pink dot on the left shows the point where the Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace and the pink dot on the left when it got out.
> 
> Russian pilot's dead body found by Turkmen forces in Syria.




Pilot shouldn't be in Syria if they violate?


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## Dino

oh by the way the turkmen have the body of one the pilots


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## BDforever

Sinan said:


> Radar signature shows that Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pink dot on the left shows the point where the Russian aircraft entered Turkish airspace and the pink dot on the left when it got out.
> 
> Russian pilot's dead body found by Turkmen forces in Syria.


1. you did not mention the shot down area box area within Syria
2. are you telling me that the turkmen force who is ISIS supporter+ anti-Assad were targeted by Russia within Syrian and you shot down for that ? you r fked up

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## Nilgiri

Why are Chinese so anti-Turkey? Is it because of Turkish support to Uighurs?

Russia is too smart to get drawn into a wider conflict with Turkey. There will be some statements, some tensions...and in the end Russia is not going to fly so close to the border anymore.

That will be that......warmongering bozos will be sorely disappointed.

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## Dino

wanglaokan said:


> A Muslim country being NATO member, it's unaccepted and a shame. It hurts Muslim's fame.


you mad bro.

turkey has been in nato since more than half a century. stop crying.

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## abp94

Sinan said:


> Yeah, i noticed that too.


Now the question here will be, did Turkey believe it was a threat after it left Turkey? 

Could be interesting to see, it's not clear cut at all

Russia will most likely chalk it off as rebels and leave it at that, that's what their initially weird response seems to be.


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## Economic superpower

Ankit Kumar said:


> Russian reply will surely depend upon the posture of Beijing.
> And knowing the Chinese, I can say they will not give a go ahead for this.
> This will end with more rigorous bombing of ISIS, support to Kruds in Turkey and covert warfare.



What has China got to do with this?

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## pher

flamer84 said:


> Turkey has 80 million population you nucklehead.


maybe russian want to do it twice out of fury, it is possible.

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## 帅的一匹

Ankit Kumar said:


> Russian reply will surely depend upon the posture of Beijing.
> And knowing the Chinese, I can say they will not give a go ahead for this.
> This will end with more rigorous bombing of ISIS, support to Kruds in Turkey and covert warfare.


They will provide more weapon to Kurds. For Turkey, Kurds seem to be more threat than ISIL.

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## abp94

Russians have so far made it clear that they think it's Syrian rebels who brought it down, not Turkey. It's a weird response, because Turkey have CLAIMED that they shot the plane down.

It's obvious Russia either don't want to respond or can't respond so will spin this off.

From their state television

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## Dino

abp94 said:


> I don't see how saying Turkey supports ISIS which is a fact is against any rules. Don't think this forum supports terrorist nations




listen you dumbo. turkmens took two villages in aleppo countryside from isis just few days ago killing many of them

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## cnleio

Let's waiting for President Putin's statement in Moscow, this time WAR or PEACE ?

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## F117

wanglaokan said:


> They will provide more weapon to Kurds. For Turkey, Kurds seem to be more threat than ISIL.


Russia can give guided anti tank missiles and MANPADs to the Kurds, this may even make the prospect of a Kurdistan inside Turkey a real possibility.

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## TheNoob

abp94 said:


> Russians have so far made it clear that they think it's Syrian rebels who brought it down, not Turkey. It's a weird response, because Turkey have CLAIMED that they shot the plane down.
> 
> It's obvious Russia either don't want to respond or can't respond so will spin this off.
> 
> From their state television



You see, As long as the pilots are "safe".
Russians will keep their priorities same.

But if the pilots have been killed, Then well, Good luck to whats ahead.

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## Nilgiri

LOL @ chinese trolls clamouring for Russia to nuke Turkey.

Keyboard warriors to the nth degree.

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## 帅的一匹

Nilgiri said:


> Why are Chinese so anti-Turkey? Is it because of Turkish support to Uighurs?
> 
> Russia is too smart to get drawn into a wider conflict with Turkey. There will be some statements, some tensions...and in the end Russia is not going to fly so close to the border anymore.
> 
> That will be that......warmongering bozos will be sorely disappointed.


Turkey is always support terrorists. Who the hell can tolerate with it? I can tell you Russia will deploy more fighters along the border and more advanced type. Back off is not the way Rusky dealing things. Next time Tu95 carrying nukes will fly along the border and please shoot it down as well.

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## -SINAN-

About Turkmen forces;

Turkmen Sultan Murat brigade captured Harcele and Delha from ISIS terrorists 3 days ago. Killed lot's of terrorists. 

Türkmenler savunmada ve saldırıda | Al Jazeera Turk - Ortadoğu, Kafkasya, Balkanlar, Türkiye ve çevresindeki bölgeden son dakika haberleri ve analizler

Keep saying Turkmens = ISIS. You can't change the reality.

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## IR1907

wanglaokan said:


> They will provide more weapon to Kurds. For Turkey, Kurds seem to be more threat than ISIL.


 We should give tanks and anti-aircraft systems to the anti-turk divisions in the kurdish forces.

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## 帅的一匹

Nilgiri said:


> LOL @ chinese trolls clamouring for Russia to nuke Turkey.
> 
> Keyboard warriors to the nth degree.


An Indian taking keyboard warrior, what a joke.

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## abp94

TheNoob said:


> You see, As long as the pilots are "safe".
> Russians will keep their priorities same.
> 
> But if the pilots have been killed, Then well, Good luck to whats ahead.


Depends

If Russian state television is spinning it off as rebels downing the plane, which is what they're doing, talking about surface to air missiles, according to analysts listening to Russian state TV, then it's pretty obvious that even with a dead pilot, they can spin it by just bombing the rebel areas, without any relation to Turkey.

A war with Turkey is not simple, there is NATO, there is the Turkish army, and not sure, maybe @Sinan can confirm but Turkey have a nuclear deterrent from the US as well?

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## cnleio

Su-24 crash site，Russian helicopter have arrived to rescue pilot

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## -SINAN-

IR1907 said:


> We should give tanks and anti-aircraft systems to the anti-turk divisions in the kurdish forces.


Fighting YPG elements has no physical contact Turkmens. And they won't dare as they know they would be blown to smithereens by Turkey.

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## FlyCheatter

...su-24 down on the Syrian-turkey borber... reported 1 pilit captured by syrian turkishmans, ... are they gonna kill him I recon, hmmm, interesting...

P.s for those who wonder, what Russian gonna do (to tukey or smt.) or that sort of stuff, I guess nothing much they are able... for just now...


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## abp94

Anyway, I take back my original ISIS comments, were extremely misguided, had not seen properly what had happened, apologies to @Sinan and other Turks here

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## 1ndy

Hit hard where it hurts the most. The ISIS... The best revenge Russian can take.

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## 帅的一匹

IR1907 said:


> We should give tanks and anti-aircraft systems to the anti-turk divisions in the kurdish forces.


I'm not advocating supporting Kurds to kill Turks. But I'm very furious about Turkey shoot down Russian fighter bombing ISIL. In my heart, ISIL is devil.

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## bobo6661

Economic superpower said:


> I hope Turkey is turned into a nuclear wasteland.
> 
> I despise that repulsive country. Disgusting terrorist supporting Turkish scum.


Hope the American nukes will not turn you in nuclear wasteland to ... And yes yes we will be turned first in nuclear wasteland...

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## The-king

wanglaokan said:


> Turkey is always support terrorists. Who the hell can tolerate with it? I can tell you Russia will deploy more fighters along the border and more advanced type. Back off is not the way Rusky dealing things. Next time Tu95 carrying nukes will fly along the border and please shoot it down as well.


Turkey Always stand against terrorism a single incident can't be generalize whole Turkish policies there are lot of regional things involved.

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## -SINAN-

abp94 said:


> Depends
> 
> If Russian state television is spinning it off as rebels downing the plane, which is what they're doing, talking about surface to air missiles, according to analysts listening to Russian state TV, then it's pretty obvious that even with a dead pilot, they can spin it by just bombing the rebel areas, without any relation to Turkey.
> 
> A war with Turkey is not simple, there is NATO, there is the Turkish army, and not sure, maybe @Sinan can confirm but Turkey have a nuclear deterrent from the US as well?


I don't think things would come to that but due to US nuclear sharing policy, TuaF has 60 B-61 Nuclear Bombs in it's disposal.

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## cnleio

Economic superpower said:


> I hope Turkey is turned into a nuclear wasteland.
> 
> I despise that repulsive country. Disgusting terrorist supporting Turkish scum.


One possible is if Russia directly nuke Turkey airbase, How Europe to deal with it ? Whether U.S or Europe willing to a nuclear war with Russia for Turkey ? The Russian has two options to solve this case: 1. Nuke 2. Peace.

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## abp94

So far two things are verified

1) The Turkish flight plan shows that the Russians DID violate their airspace, there is no question of this
2) The jet was downed in Syrian territory after it passed through Turkey

Only someone with proper data of speed, height and where it landed exactly can tell how close to Turkey it was downed. However, Turkey is well within its NATO rights to shoot down the plane which violated its territory. NATO are bound to protect them, unless it can be verified that the plane was far enough away from Turkey after leaving


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## Nilgiri

wanglaokan said:


> Turkey is always support terrorists. Who the hell can tolerate with it? I can tell you Russia will deploy more fighters along the border and more advanced type. Back off is not the way Rusky dealing things. Next time Tu95 carrying nukes will fly along the border and please shoot it down as well.



Yah because they sure escalated Ukraine war....after losing so many people there....much more than this plane getting shot down. Whatever happened to taking Kiev? All just talk?



wanglaokan said:


> An Indian taking keyboard warrior, what a joke.



When Russia doesn't nuke Turkey, you're going to look very silly and stupid. Just like when you lot were claiming China was going to invade and defeat Vietnam very soon after the anti-Chinese riots there.

All big talk.....rest of the world yawns and rolls its eyes at you.

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## Perpendicular

wanglaokan said:


> An Indian taking keyboard warrior, what a joke.


Leave the stage for Russia and Turkey please. @Nilgiri

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## 帅的一匹

IR1907 said:


> We should give tanks and anti-aircraft systems to the anti-turk divisions in the kurdish forces.


I always prefer join hands with Russian and Iran to bomb ISIL. Several days ago, ISIL killed a Chinese.

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## abp94

Sinan said:


> I don't think things would come to that but due to US nuclear sharing policy, TuaF has 60 B-61 Nuclear Bombs in it's disposal.


True, hopefully it won't, but it is one reason Russia will not want to get involved here. Their plane did violate territory, unless they can somehow prove it was far away from Turkey and no threat at all (Which is hard), they will have no legal reason to attack Turkey, and NATO will respond

Russia is not what it once was, and Putin knows this

Interesting few days ahead though

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## 帅的一匹

Perpendicular said:


> Leave the stage for Russia and Turkey please. @Nilgiri


Ok, I was not the one who started it,

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## Ankit Kumar

Economic superpower said:


> What has China got to do with this?




China has been economically, and to a slight extent supportive to Russia , when they came here. 

And a conflict with Turkey will need economic support from China.


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## Hussein

1ndy said:


> Hit hard where it hurts the most. The ISIS... The best revenge Russian can take.


clear


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## abp94

wanglaokan said:


> I always prefer join hands with Russian and Iran to bomb ISIL. Several days ago, ISIL killed a Chinese.


No side truly supports ISIL though. There's plenty of conjecture but Turkey would be mad to even think of supporting ISIL which is close enough to home


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## Mahmoud_EGY

to the people talking about turkish airspace violated what about syrian airspace which has been violated many times since the crisis started ? it seems the idiot erdogan will keep supporting terror even if it meant the end of his country maybe he got the courage to do this because he would hide behind nato well they sold down their allies before they can do it again russians can get their revenge without firing a shot by arming kurds and by that get a powerful allay also in their war in syria


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## BDforever

JUBA said:


> Good job Turks, I bet the vodka addicts didn't see that coming Lol!


Hello ISIS

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## Nilgiri

Ankit Kumar said:


> And a conflict with Turkey will need economic support from China.



Uh no it wont.


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## The-king

cnleio said:


> One possible is if Russia directly nuke Turkey airbase, How Europe to deal with it ? Whether U.S or Europe willing to a nuclear war with Russia for Turkey ?


Are you serious even passenger jets in history targeted by SAMs nothing going to happen only serious warnings and verbal hostility neither Turkey or Russia afford such big conflicts. Remember Russia is all alone against NATO and Turkey got full support from US / NATO.

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## -SINAN-

wanglaokan said:


> Turkey shoot down Russian fighter bombing ISIL. In my heart, ISIL is devil.



Seems like i have to explain this for several times.....



Sinan said:


> About Turkmen forces;
> 
> Turkmen Sultan Murat brigade captured Harcele and Delha from ISIS terrorists 3 days ago. Killed lot's of terrorists.
> 
> Türkmenler savunmada ve saldırıda | Al Jazeera Turk - Ortadoğu, Kafkasya, Balkanlar, Türkiye ve çevresindeki bölgeden son dakika haberleri ve analizler
> 
> Keep saying Turkmens = ISIS. You can't change the reality.

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## abp94

“This was an incident in the making for some time as we have had some near misses in the past few weeks wher Turkey did not fully implement its own rules of engagement.”

“There were two airspace violations, and after that a very high level Russian military delegation came to Turkey to talk about it, including a top air force official. They apologised for one of the incidents, saying that in that case the Russian pilot didn’t speak the language. So we thought we had an understanding and solved the problem.”

“So it’s a surprise that it happened since that visit,” Ulgen, who is also a visiting scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “But it’s not a surprise in terms of Russian strategy. Since the intervention the Russians have been testing the Turkish response at its borders and its rules of engagement.

“In this case, the pilot was warned a number of times. First at 13 miles out from the Turkish border, and then at 5 miles out, which is when Turkish jets scramble. It went past all those thresholds,” he said.
Sinan Ulgen, a former Turkish diplomat

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## Max

Hussein said:


> try wahhabi



i am not wahabi.. i am sufi Hanafi.. i just replied bcoz he is constantly hitting our friend turkey.. i have nothing against iran..

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## KAL-EL

BuddhaPalm said:


> Now its time for nuclear strikes against Ankara.
> 
> Constantinopol will be liberated.



Yes!!!!! Strike now!! And immediately after, India should be liberated !!

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## Dino

F117 said:


> Russia can give guided anti tank missiles and MANPADs to the Kurds, this may even make the prospect of a Kurdistan inside Turkey a real possibility.




unlike what you think, turkey is happy with kurdistan. the one in northern iraq


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## abp94

I wonder, if people attacking Turkey would appreciate, say, the US violating their airspace while hunting for terrorists....


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## Ulysses

Russia won't dare attack a fellow NATO member unless it wants to commit suicide.

We currently have a huge presence in Turkey.

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## cnleio

The-king said:


> Are you serious even passenger jets in history targeted by SAMs nothing going to happen only serious warnings and verbal hostility neither Turkey or Russia afford such big conflicts. Remember Russia is all alone against NATO and Turkey got full support from US / NATO.


I had said, it depend on whether NATO willing to risk a big war with Russia, for Turkey, or for ISIS ? After Su-24 crashed, now the initiative in Russian hands they can choose next action.

The ISIS is now the enemy of U.N, and their support also the enemy of U.N ... the Top5 in UNSC can claim War to those nations at any time.

Oil from ISIS  ... what Russia need do next just some evidences to prove the ISIS support ... then it's NATO vs Russia, or NATO vs U.N ? How Europe nations feeling that after terrorist attack in Paris ?

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## Mahmoud_EGY

abp94 said:


> I wonder, if people attacking Turkey would appreciate, say, the US violating their airspace while hunting for terrorists....


if we are supporting terror then we deserve it


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## IR1907

Ulysses said:


> We currently have a huge presence in Turkey.


And in Syria and Iraq

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## Jaanbaz

GTM900 said:


> Russia should detonate a few 100 of their old cold war era 25 to 30 Megaton warheads over each and every Turkish city and wipe out at least 200 million Turkic men,women and children.



@Irfan Baloch I know you have your hands full, but what's up with Indians and their fetish with killing women and children?

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## abp94

IR1907 said:


> Your licking turkish balls because you are a brown subhuman looking up to a the ''bit more white'' Turks. Thats it.


So he's subhuman because he's brown? Classy, I'm sure the owners of this forum are brown "Subhumans" too, and will appreciate your ridiculous opinion

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## 帅的一匹

Nilgiri said:


> Yah because they sure escalated Ukraine war....after losing so many people there....much more than this plane getting shot down. Whatever happened to taking Kiev? All just talk?
> 
> 
> 
> When Russia doesn't nuke Turkey, you're going to look very silly and stupid. Just like when you lot were claiming China was going to invade and defeat Vietnam very soon after the anti-Chinese riots there.
> 
> All big talk.....rest of the world yawns and rolls its eyes at you.


In which thread that i say Russia will nuke Turkey?

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## IR1907

abp94 said:


> So he's subhuman because he's brown? Classy, I'm sure the owners of this forum are brown "Subhumans" too, and will appreciate your ridiculous opinion


I am talking about that specific member.


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## abp94

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> if we are supporting terror then we deserve it


Let's say there are terrorists just south of the Egyptian border, outside Egyptian territory. You are not supporting them or attacking them. What then? Is it justified for a bomber to ignore all warnings and enter Egyptian territory or will you take it down?


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## Guynextdoor2

Frosty said:


> LATEST: Jet warned before being targeted, nationality of downed plane is yet unclear - Turkish military official http://on.rt.com/6xe7
> 
> 
> URGENT: Turkish PM orders foreign ministry to consult with NATO,UN on latest developments on Syrian border- CNN Türk http://on.rt.com/6xe7
> 
> MORE: 2 pilots parachuting out of downed jet (VIDEO) (pic by @HaberturkTV) http://on.rt.com/6xe7



Hope the pilots are safe.


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## farhan_9909

With the Growing regional threat to turkey.I believe Turkey should officially declare a nuclear program for weapons.Time to acquire nukes as soon as possible

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## The-king

As per BBC reports standard procedure to shot down intruding Jet is three time warning to the intruding Jet if pilot did't respond or change the flight path as per NATO standards it OK to shot down intruding jet. Lets see Turkey follows these steps.

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## bobo6661

Meanwhile in russian media: "Military analyst Korotchenko on Rus TV: the US is to blame because it supplied the rebels with the weapons capable of shooting down our jet."

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## Jaanbaz

flamer84 said:


> Turkey has 80 million population you nucklehead.



He got Turkey mixed up with Pakistan.

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## abp94

Jaanbaz said:


> He got Turkey mixed up with Pakistan.


Isn't Turkey in Pakistan? That's what they teach in their Indian books

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## The-king

farhan_9909 said:


> With the Growing regional threat to turkey.I believe Turkey should officially declare a nuclear program for weapons.Time to acquire nukes as soon as possible


But i believe that Turkey already have nuclear umbrella from NATO and nearly 40 nuclear weapons stored in Turkey managed by Turkey and NATO.


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## Ind4Ever

simple Brain said:


> This isn't a good news for the whole world, I know Turkey was frustrated with Russian actions but It ain't just seems right. God help us all....


Russians will prepare for greater countermeasure. War is imminent. Now Iran China Russia will do everything to pound Turkey Saudi and Qatar. These are stupidity of turks who thinks US can save at all times.

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## farhan_9909

The-king said:


> But i believe that Turkey already have nuclear umbrella from NATO and nearly 40 nuclear weapons stored in Turkey managed by Turkey and NATO.



Nuclear umbrella doesn't matter.They will back off as was the case with Ukraine.

Time to develop independent nuclear program.

I can't believe that a regional power like Turkey don't have nukes

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## -SINAN-

bobo6661 said:


> Meanwhile in russian media: "Military analyst Korotchenko on Rus TV: the US is to blame because it supplied the rebels with the weapons capable of shooting down our jet."


     

Also, let's put this info in the post.


> The Turkish foreign ministry also summoned the Russian ambassador last week to warn him that there would be "serious consequences" if the Russian air force did not immediately stop bombing "civilian Turkmen villages" in Latakia province.


Turkey 'downs Russian warplane on Syria border' - BBC News


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## Nilgiri

wanglaokan said:


> In which thread that i say Russia will nuke Turkey?



"You" being the plural of you Chinese trolls overall. Not specifically you. A lot of you are calling for Turkey to be nuked.

Anyways what exactly do you specifically think the Russian action will be?

According to your earlier post:



wanglaokan said:


> Back off is not the way Rusky dealing things. Next time Tu95 carrying nukes will fly along the border and please shoot it down as well.



You want Russia to escalate things to that level of carrying nukes along the border.

Russia is going to escalate diddly squat.

Already they have claimed it was a SAM from syria that shot the plane down....already releasing a face-saving version so they need not need to face-off with Turkey at all in the immediate short term. Later on they may come to a mutual understanding on what happened and create a buffer zone or no fly zone....thats all thats going to happen. Watch and see.

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## KAL-EL

F117 said:


> Turkey as you know it may not exist any more in the future, so you better say goodbye to it.



Goodbye Turkey.. Russia is about to launch a massive nuclear strike on you.

At least that's what it's going to do in the wacked out video game mentality of some here.

Goodbye Turkey...

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## Adecypher

RT special coverage of Russian warplane downed over Syria
*Video allegedly shows dead Russian pilot surrounded by armed rebels in Syria (GRAPHIC)*

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## The-king

farhan_9909 said:


> Nuclear umbrella doesn't matter.They will back off as was the case with Ukraine.
> 
> Time to develop independent nuclear program.
> 
> I can't believe that a regional power like Turkey don't have nukes


I am agreed with you but they can't eat grass to develop nuclear weapons against NATO / US wish and more to their obsession to get EU status. They have time but they waste it in pursue to in EU.


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## omega supremme

wanglaokan said:


> They will retaliate in some way, definitely nuke is not included.




Yes maybe a terrorist act inside Turkey no other logical option do I see except saying few words


----------



## soundHound

And there goes my dream of seeing Istanbul one day.


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## 帅的一匹

farhan_9909 said:


> With the Growing regional threat to turkey.I believe Turkey should officially declare a nuclear program for weapons.Time to acquire nukes as soon as possible


At the day you acquire nuke, turkey will be kicked out of NATO ASAP.

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## The-king

@Irfan Baloch
Few members are creating mess by trolling and inciting other check the above posts.

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## Economic superpower

KAL-EL said:


> Goodbye Turkey.. Russia is about to launch a massive nuclear strike on you.
> 
> At least that's what it's going to do in the wacked out video game mentality of some here.
> 
> Goodbye Turkey...



Stop trolling.

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## bobo6661

KAL-EL said:


> Goodbye Turkey.. Russia is about to launch a massive nuclear strike on you.
> 
> At least that's what it's going to do in the video game mentality of some here.


They played to much in Defcon game



Economic superpower said:


> Stop trolling.


i see only chinese and iranians Trolling here

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## KAL-EL

Economic superpower said:


> Stop trolling.



LMAO!!! That's rich coming from you. *Pot meet kettle*

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## 帅的一匹

I'm very curious what happens if Su30sm face F16, Su24 is more like a bomber?

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## Nilgiri

*Impossible to answer' whether right to self-defence will be invoked, says Putin's spokesman*

Asked whether Russia will invoke its right to self-defence as envisaged in the UN Charter over the loss of its military aircraft on the Syrian-Turkish border, Russian presidential press secretary Dmitriy Peskov replied: "Until there are clarifying reports, it is impossible to answer this question."

He said: "So far, the defence ministry has not yet confirmed what brought our warplane down. We know for a fact that the aircraft was in Syrian airspace, above Syrian territory."

He refused to confirm rumours that President Vladimir Putin was planning to call an extraordinary meeting of the Russian Security Council following the incident.

But he added it is likely Putin may discuss the matter during talks with Jordanian King Abdullah II in Sochi today.

----------------------------------------------------------------

*YUP IT SURE LOOKS LIKE THE RUSSIANS ARE IN A BIG RUSH TO ESCALATE WITH TURKEY...PREPARE ZE NUKES COMRADE*

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## Dino

Ind4Ever said:


> Russians will prepare for greater countermeasure. War is imminent. Now Iran China Russia will do everything to pound Turkey Saudi and Qatar. These are stupidity of turks who thinks US can save at all times.



dude turkey is a nato country. with 50 nuclear weapons stashed in incirlik air base. lay off the crack pipe

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## farhan_9909

wanglaokan said:


> At the day you acquire nuke, turkey will be kicked out of NATO ASAP.



I believe once they get nukes.they don't need nato anymore.

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## ito

Erdogan is simple stupid...when there were chances of a rapprochement between Russia and the West to take on ISIS, this antics by Erdogan has spoiled everything.

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## Husnainshah

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Update - Turkish official: downing of jet was not an action against any specific country but a step to defend <a href="News about #Turkey on Twitter">#Turkey</a>&#39;s sovereign territory</p>&mdash; Sky News Newsdesk (@SkyNewsBreak) <a href="

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669113223694692354">November 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="News about #Russian on Twitter">#Russian</a> FM <a href="News about #Lavrov on Twitter">#Lavrov</a> cancels trip to <a href="News about #Ankara on Twitter">#Ankara</a>, <a href="News about #Turkey on Twitter">#Turkey</a> following downing of Russian jet over <a href="News about #Syria on Twitter">#Syria</a>.</p>&mdash; The War Blog (@TheWarBlog2015) <a href="

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669114202812878850">November 24, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


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## 帅的一匹

farhan_9909 said:


> I believe once they get nukes.they don't need nato anymore.


Contra versa

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## Economic superpower

JUBA said:


> He means Farsi women are "more available" for anyone, just promise her you'll get her a job in prostitution in Dubai and any Farsi girl will spread her legs wide open for you.



Your ISIS boys are getting a quick transfer to hell.

You should be more worried about this.

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## Juicer

the plane fall in Syria lands , Turkey can't prove that it was in Turkey aerospace .... 

Russia just need to use UNSC and impose serve sanction on Turkey ... and Turkey economy will fail ... 

no need to rush things when they have time and other tools for punishing Erdogan ....
if they failed in UNSC ( for example , USA or England veto any resolution against Turkey ) , then Russian can shot down a Turkey fighter and say :" it was in Syria aerospace " ...

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

F117 said:


> Russia can give guided anti tank missiles and MANPADs to the Kurds, this may even make the prospect of a Kurdistan inside Turkey a real possibility.



But, if some day Kurds turn barrel of those missles againist primitive Iran tanks and armored vechiles..??....
Kurds in Turkey could sound their voice freely through democratic means in Turkey...But Kurds in Iran like a hiden boiling volcano under earth..even Turks in Iran as same as Kurds..at present Iran could control its big politic and ethnic problems through dictatorship...But history say us dictatorship is not a warranty solution..Even it will make problem bigger in long term...Just like an earthquake or volcano it is a matter of time..

and more...Russia has no luxury of lossing a powerful country like Turkey..We are no.1 customer of Russian gas and can close bosphorus to Russian military ships....Of course, we have no luxury of lossing a big country like Russia as well..  
indeed, i like uncle Puto...

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## Economic superpower

IR1907 said:


> Are you talking about Arab girls in UK,Germany and France ? They will spread their as.s and vag even *with their Hijab on*  you should see that.
> 
> Go eat some lizard subhuman curly haired Saudi piec of shit.



Saudi are just a ISIS as a country.

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## I S I

Idiots are those who thinks that Turkey can't defend it self. Seems like dumb Fs forgot how much Pakistan humiliated F..kin Soviet Union in Afghanistan & Pakistan is still in one piece today. 


We're with you Turkish brothers & sisters.

Fu*k Russia & USA

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## Husnainshah

Russian pilot 'killed' and another feared to be in rebel hands after plane is downed over Syria by Turkey | Middle East | News | The Independent

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## 帅的一匹

ito said:


> Erdogan is simple stupid...when there were chances of a rapprochement between Russia and the West to take on ISIS, this antics by Erdogan has spoiled everything.


Do you know his daughter build a hospital to treat ISIL injuries? He is not stupid, he is extremist.

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## Nilgiri

Hope spetsnaz rescues the surviving pilot.....or at least takes vengeance on the mofos if he's killed.


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## BDforever

JUBA said:


> Lay off Putin's d!ck ya bengali

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## -SINAN-

Turkish tanks moved up to Syrian border and took up positions. 

NATO'dan ilk açıklama... - Milliyet Haber

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## NP-complete

america plays its cards very well.

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## 帅的一匹

Economic superpower said:


> Saudi are just a ISIS as a country.


Don't bring in Saudi man, you need to be smart.

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## TheNoob

abp94 said:


> Depends
> 
> If Russian state television is spinning it off as rebels downing the plane, which is what they're doing, talking about surface to air missiles, according to analysts listening to Russian state TV, then it's pretty obvious that even with a dead pilot, they can spin it by just bombing the rebel areas, without any relation to Turkey.
> 
> A war with Turkey is not simple, there is NATO, there is the Turkish army, and not sure, maybe @Sinan can confirm but Turkey have a nuclear deterrent from the US as well?



Putin is a smart man.

just because it involves US and NATO... dont think he'll just look away.

just look at what NATO tried to do in ukrain and what putins reply was.

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## Beast

Dino said:


> dude turkey is a nato country. with 50 nuclear weapons stashed in incirlik air base. lay off the crack pipe


Russian has 10000 nuclear warhead and the most powerful ICBM.

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## IR1907

Dino said:


> dude turkey is a nato country. with 50 nuclear weapons stashed in incirlik air base. lay off the crack pipe


Those are not Turkeys property but Turkeys boss (USA).

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## EnggineerShahjehan

But where does the Pakistan stands, will it support its old trusted friend Turkey or its Russia to whom a visible cozy shift can be seen, i ll prefer Turkey !

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## The-king

The women you are talking about also Muslim show some respect don't force us to tell you the reality OK so please shut up.

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## Vyom

BDforever said:


> View attachment 274414



People can Saudi Barbaria can't make jokes... it went above your head.. thank god.. it was supposed to behead you...

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## Saho

Looks like Russia mistaken Turkey as Ukraine and Georgia.

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## GBU-28

What's with all the nuke talk? 

No one nukes a country for bringing down a jet in disputed airspace. If there are any repercussions, it will be diplomatic, economic or a gesture of some kind.

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## ito

wanglaokan said:


> Do you know his daughter build a hospital to treat ISIL injuries? He is not stupid, he is extremist.



Yes, he is. He is an extremist.


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## KAL-EL

Beast said:


> Russian has 10000 nuclear warhead and the most powerful ICBM.



Yes... Russia has a vast nuclear arsenal. So how much of that arsenal do you think should be used against Turkey?

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## Haroon Baloch

SinoSoldier said:


> Looks like it's either a MiG-23 or Su-24.


It is Su-24 and shot down by Turkish F16


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## Nilgiri

Beast said:


> Russian has 10000 nuclear warhead and the most powerful ICBM.

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## IR1907

The-king said:


> The women you are talking about also Muslim show some respect don't force us to tell you the reality OK so please shut up.


If you and your freinds behave then there is no problem but if you show ISIS mentality expect a proper reply.

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## KAL-EL

GBU-28 said:


> What's with all the nuke talk? r
> 
> No one nukes a country for bringing down a jet in disputed airspace. If there are any repercussions, it will be diplomatic, economic or a gesture of some kind.



Whoa! You're being way to rational my friend. This is PDF remember?  Some of these people live for this kind of fantasy.

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## nomi007

war against iss will turn into war between russian and nato


----------



## The Vicious Kind

Hold your horses ! Any retaliation against Turkey by Russia will trigger the North Atlantic Treaty , thus bringing the entire western world to war with Russia. So its highly unlikely that Russia will be attacking Turkey anytime soon.

In the 80s PAF shot down several Soviet/Russian aircrafts on the Pak-Afghan border, did it trigger any war ? No.

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## Juicer

Dino said:


> dude turkey is a nato country. with 50 nuclear weapons stashed in incirlik air base. lay off the crack pipe



do you think the western would enter a nuclear war for sake of Turkey !?

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## $@rJen

Russians are going to do nothing against Turkey Militarily... Diplomatic Pressure will be there.. But now this gives them the rights to bring S-300 or 400 into action and we might see S-30,35

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## The-king

IR1907 said:


> If you and your freinds behave then there is no problem but if you show ISIS mentality expect a proper reply.


Now i will give you proper reply, tagging all your posts to mods lets hope you will get instant ban.


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## sohail.ishaque

C130 said:


> Turkey has it's own plans
> 
> thinking that *Turkey is a pawn of the U.S *



True,.. And I hope Turkey realizes this soon,..

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## FlyCheatter

Sinan said:


> I don't think things would come to that but due to US nuclear sharing policy, TuaF has 60 B-61 Nuclear Bombs in it's disposal.


...me recon, what would that suppose to mean (i.e what are those could be, in your mind, be used for )?


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## Dino

IR1907 said:


> Those are not Turkeys property but Turkeys boss (USA).



yes, but the point is that you can't simply nuke turkey and get away with it son

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## -SINAN-

More info revealing. 

As far as i understood. Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace 2 times.





It violated, circled and violated again despite warnings.






Missile fired by Turkish F-16 at "HH036-180" when it entered the Turkish airspace for the second time, missile hit the Russian aircraft at "HH037-203"

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## IR1907

Dino said:


> yes, but the point is that you can't simply nuke turkey and get away with it son


nuclear warfare is ruled out in the 21th century, kid.

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## -SINAN-

FlyCheatter said:


> ...me recon, what would that suppose to mean (i.e what are those could be, in your mind, be used for )?


For medical purposes....  (Radiotherapy)

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## sohail.ishaque

monitor said:


> I hope this will e eventually start third world war. I along will all member of pdf have missed ww2 .I hope we can enjoy the modern ww3



Enjoying ??? don't think so.. i think most of the world will experience it rather then just enjoying it,. thats why its a World war... btw for your enjoyment, Iraq, Syria, Lebonan, Afghanistan wars are not enough ?????


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## Hakan



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## KAL-EL

Dino said:


> yes, but the point is that you can't simply nuke turkey and get away with it son



The mature rational folks here know there will be no nuking anyone. Many of the belligerent nuke comments come from the usual PDF keyboard warriors.

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## Pulsar

SinoSoldier said:


> Looks like it's either a MiG-23 or Su-24.


Two pilots ejected means it was a SU-34/SU-24.


----------



## Vyom

BuddhaPalm said:


> Russia will do a decapitation strike against Ergodan in Ankara with tactical nuclear warheads and bunker busters. Good-bye Turkey!



Pardon me for being Ignorant but whats with the Chinese members? They have gone full Pro Russia, Pakistanis have gone full Pro-turkey. This is bl00dy rare !!


----------



## Dino

Juicer said:


> do you think the western would enter a nuclear war for sake of Turkey !?


article 5 son. 

nuclear weapons is not mortar shells you fool. no one is going to use nukes man unless someone has an death wish

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## C130

Vyom said:


> Pardon me for being Ignorant but whats with the Chinese members? They have gone full Pro Russia, Pakistanis have gone full Pro-turkey. This is bl00dy rare !!




the Chinese and Turkey members have been fighting for awhile. it cooled down but now it's starting back up again

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## Levina

Frosty said:


> Better and longer video of the downed bomber.


I can not see the pilot ejecting.


----------



## Paksanity

Juicer said:


> do you think the western would enter a nuclear war for sake of Turkey !?



Yes, they will if it comes to that but it won't. Russia is not stupid. If NATO alliance fails to support a member state, the alliance will loose credibility and will fall apart. Except US no NATO member can take on Russia alone. Russia will eat them one by one. That's the whole idea behind NATO alliance.


----------



## KAL-EL

Vyom said:


> Pardon me for being Ignorant but whats with the Chinese members? They have gone full Pro Russia, Pakistanis have gone full Pro-turkey. This is bl00dy rare !!



Don't mind BuddhaPalm, he lives for nuking and liberating countries. He's quality entertainment here.

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## farhan_9909

Russia must be under extreme pressure because if they don't respond,it will give a msg of weakness of russia but if they respond,they might get struck in a war with russia.even if it is convetional,turkey alone can do hell of damage to Russia.

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## FlyCheatter

Sinan said:


> For medical purposes....  (Radiotherapy)


...pffff, ok..keep on that


----------



## Arsalan

EnggineerShahjehan said:


> But where does the Pakistan stands, will it support its old trusted friend Turkey or its Russia to whom a visible cozy shift can be seen, i ll prefer Turkey !


That will mean going against China too.

LET US JUST ALL HOPE AND PRAY THINGS DO NOT GET TO THAT POINT. This is no game guys, if it gets escalated we are all in deep 5hit!! It have the potential of turning into a world war. NO SANE PERSON WILL WANT THAT!!

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## Juicer

Sinan said:


> More info revealing.
> 
> As far as i understood. Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace 2 times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It violated, circled and violated again despite warnings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missile fired by Turkish F-16 at "HH036-180" when it entered the Turkish airspace for the second time, missile hit the Russian aircraft at "HH037-203"



its has no value , because you are one side of this problem ... 
certainly , they didn't violated your sky seriously and they didn't penetrat in deep of your Airspace ... so even it is true , it can't justify your action ...

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## RoadRunner401

This image, right, claims to show one of the Russian pilots found dead by Turkmen rebels






Smoke billowing from the wreckage of a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 jet was shot down by Turkish F-16 fighter planes on Tuesday morning and crashed in Syria's Turkoman Mountains





This image released by the Turkish Army reportedly shows the flight radar tracking the movement of the downed Russian Sukhoi Su-24 jet, showing where it entered Turkish air space and where it went down

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## $@rJen

BuddhaPalm said:


> Russia will do a decapitation strike against Ergodan in Ankara with tactical nuclear warheads and bunker busters. Good-bye Turkey!



And here came the dumb @ss..


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## Hakan

I don't think it will escalate, no one would want it to. If it did how NATO allies would react.


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## Mahmoud_EGY

some talk about Russian helicopter shot down i dont know if its true


----------



## Assange

Let's pray this does not escalate....

If things do escalate then this will show who is all weather ally of who... 

Let's hope for the best....

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## Husnainshah

An emergency meeting by a NATO's been called. I doubt NATO isn't gonna have Turkey's back since Turkey on it's wouldn't have downed a Russian Fighter. It's U.S' orders.


----------



## ASHARR

What happen with pilots ?


----------



## $@rJen

Sinan said:


> More info revealing.
> 
> As far as i understood. Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace 2 times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It violated, circled and violated again despite warnings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missile fired by Turkish F-16 at "HH036-180" when it entered the Turkish airspace for the second time, missile hit the Russian aircraft at "HH037-203"



Good Job..

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## Schutz

Lol at all the fucking OBVIOUS bots/government trolls on here with Chinese flags, this isnt that "serious" an issue, as in nothing will come from it. Its either a rebel force taking out a Russian jet or Russian invasion of airspace.

This is not considered article 5 of NATO as there is no "aggressor", Russia has most likely lost aircraft in Ukraine aswell, you dont nuke someone over a jet in a dubious position no way near your OWN border, nothing will come off this, its not that uncommon for a jet to go down and wars certainly wont stem from it.

A bunch of people commenting who have zero understanding of geopolitics.

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## Nilgiri

Hakan said:


> I don't think it will escalate, no one would want it to. If it did how NATO allies would react.



They will rush to aid Turkey of course.

NATO succeeds or fails together.

Hence why Russian response has been very guarded unlike any similar events w.r.t Ukraine.

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## EnggineerShahjehan

Job well done turkey, love u Turks love Erdegon , few decades ago we Pakistani taught russians a lesson now its ur turn to teach them again

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## TurkeyForever

IR1907 said:


> Yeh, after all the Turks are considered as ''brown islamists'' by the whites.



and eyranians are considered afghanistan 2.0.. calling turks brown that is rich to come from an eyranian.. wait for your turn be patient USA is coming for you soon.


----------



## $@rJen

ASHARR said:


> What happen with pilots ?



Seems Pilot was killed by the turk rebels on the ground


----------



## Juicer

IR1907 said:


> nuclear warfare is ruled out in the 21th century, kid.


for your knowledge , a small nuclear encounter can damage all of ME environment .... 

I don't want a war because we have some economic interests in turkey but , someone should stop Erdogan ... Turks are becoming Overconfident

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## F.O.X

*To My Chinese & Russian Friends here *

calm down, this is not that big of an incident at this level of battleground, it was bound to happened sooner or later, this is not going to start WW3 neither is Russia going to take any drastic steps or invade turkey, at most from this point onward Russian bombers will have an escort .. that's it.

*To my Turk friends*

If this incident could have been avoided it would have been best, we are all fighting the common enemy, which in this case is ISIL/ISIS, truth of the matter is that they were created by US invasion of Iraq simple as that, US has done nothing to Stop them they are indirectly the largest beneficiaries of this fiasco, you have simply been roped in to fight the serpent while the US is simply cheering you on ( just like us and we are still paying the price for that mistake )

US and NATO are not trustworthy they will leave you when you need them the most, we haev learned that the hard way , I pray you don't.
*
To all others *
Stop playing Rumba on someone else's dance floor.

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## Nilgiri

F.O.X said:


> Stop playing Rumba on someone else's dance floor.



So the Chinese are allowed in something concerning Russia - Turkey. But no one else huh?

When people start talking about nuclear armageddon, Im sorry but that involves everyone.

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## rashid.sarwar

So the turkish claiming that they warned for 10 minutes before firing was a bluff.....



RoadRunner401 said:


> View attachment 274416
> 
> View attachment 274417
> 
> 
> This image, right, claims to show one of the Russian pilots found dead by Turkmen rebels
> 
> View attachment 274420
> 
> 
> Smoke billowing from the wreckage of a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 jet was shot down by Turkish F-16 fighter planes on Tuesday morning and crashed in Syria's Turkoman Mountains
> 
> View attachment 274422
> 
> This image released by the Turkish Army reportedly shows the flight radar tracking the movement of the downed Russian Sukhoi Su-24 jet, showing where it entered Turkish air space and where it went down

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## Juicer

Dino said:


> article 5 son.
> nuclear weapons is not mortar shells you fool. no one is going to use nukes man unless someone has an death wish



you should calm down , I said no country would enter a nuclear war for sake of other country ... alliance or not ... I'm sure people in Italy , Germany , France , England and USA don't want to enter a nuclear war with Russia for sake of Erdogan and his blind love for Terrorist scums ...

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## Providence

If chinese govt had any balls like what the chinese losers seems to portray they would have voiced some concern against NATO.

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## RoadRunner401

"Daesh’s smuggled oil is exported to Turkey by BMZ, a shipping company controlled by none other than Bilal Erdogan, son of “Sultan” Erdogan. At a minimum, this violates UN Security Council resolution 2170. Under the light of Putin’s message of going after anyone or any entity engaged in facilitating Daesh’s operations, Erdogan’s clan better come up with some really good excuses."


----------



## -SINAN-

FlyCheatter said:


> ...pffff, ok..keep on that


mate, you asked the purpose of a WMD..... 



Juicer said:


> its has no value , because you are one side of this problem ...
> certainly , they didn't violated your sky seriously and they didn't penetrat in deep of your Airspace ... so even it is true , it can't justify your action ...


How do you know are you operating your own radar system in Syria ?

And it is true and it exactly justifies our action if you don't have a clue about international law, it's not my problem.

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## monitor

Ir


sohail.ishaque said:


> Enjoying ??? don't think so.. i think most of the world will experience it rather then just enjoying it,. thats why its a World war... btw for your enjoyment, Iraq, Syria, Lebonan, Afghanistan wars are not enough ?????


Iraq afganistan was one sided war so no enjoyenment. BTW I am not seriously wising a war of titan because everybody will be directly indectly affected.


----------



## ankita

cirr said:


> A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。
> 
> Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。


for the time being russia will concentrate on isis,turky will come on radar later on.


----------



## TopCat

500 said:


> U obviously skipped physics lessons in school. Jet flying at high altitude with 900-1000 km/h speed can easily fly over 10 km after being shot.



Or you probably never studied statistics along with physics. None of the aircraft landed in turkeys' side of the border in previous occasions.


----------



## Paksanity

Sinan said:


> mate, you asked the purpose of a WMD.....
> 
> 
> How do you know are you operating your own radar system in Syria ?
> 
> And it is true and it exactly justifies our action if you don't have a clue about international law, it's not my problem.



Any info what weapons F-16s used? AIM-9 or AIM-120?


----------



## Juicer

Sinan said:


> mate, you asked the purpose of a WMD.....
> 
> 
> How do you know are you operating your own radar system in Syria ?
> 
> And it is true and it exactly justifies our action if you don't have a clue about international law, it's not my problem.



Russians can claim this is forgery evidence and the image will lose it value ; no court will accept a Graphical Image as evidence ... 
don't be hostile , I said a normal fact ...

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## monitor

farhan_9909 said:


> Russia must be under extreme pressure because if they don't respond,it will give a msg of weakness of russia but if they respond,they might get struck in a war with russia.even if it is convetional,turkey alone can do hell of damage to Russia.


Turkey alone can fight Airwar inside Turkish airspace but outside in sea without NATO turkey will be in big trouble.

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## TopCat

Paksanity said:


> Any info what weapons F-16s used? AIM-9 or AIM-120?



It was a defenseless su-24 bomber. Anything will work...


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## BuddhaPalm

Providence said:


> If chinese govt had any balls like what the chinese losers seems to portray they would have voiced some concern against NATO.


It's called: evacuate PRC nationals from Turkey because Russia already told us "the big one" is coming

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## 500

500 said:


> U obviously skipped physics lessons in school. Jet flying at high altitude with 900-1000 km/h speed can easily fly over 10 km after being shot.


Here the proof. Jet keeps flying horizontally after being shot:








Juicer said:


> its has no value , because you are one side of this problem ...
> certainly , they didn't violated your sky seriously and they didn't penetrat in deep of your Airspace ... so even it is true , it can't justify your action ...


Problem that it happened already 3rd time. Turkey warned them each time they violated but they did not listen.

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## Saho

I'm surprise no one mention PKK. They will most likely get new funding and weapons from Russia because of this.


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## -SINAN-

Juicer said:


> Russians can claim this is forgery evidence and the image will lose it value ; no court will accept a Graphical Image as evidence ...
> don't be hostile , I said a normal fact ...


And they will NUKE Turkey than NATO after that all the Human kind.....things in real life doesn't work like they do in your mind.

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## BLACKEAGLE

Good job Turkey.

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## monitor

Hakan said:


> View attachment 274418


Shown his balls agaist Russia.

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## -SINAN-

Paksanity said:


> Any info what weapons F-16s used? AIM-9 or AIM-120?


I think AIM-120 is used but no official statement. We would learn it in the weeks to come.

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## Juicer

Saho said:


> I'm surprise no one mention PKK. They will most likely get new funding and weapons from Russia because of this.


well , Iran have problem with PKK , arming PKK is against our interest and we will react against it ....

probably , they will use UNSC or shot down some Turkey fighters in cumming month and use the same excuse ....


----------



## Rasengan

Serpentine said:


> Considering the fact that a nutjob called Erdogan is sending every kind of dickhead terrorist to Syria to help establish a Muslim Brotherhood terror gang in Damascus, plus sending all kinds of weapons there. So if I were you, I wouldn't want to fight for someone like that either.
> 
> If it's a Russian jet, hopefully Russia will teach Erdogan and his gangs in Syria a lesson he never forgets.



Iran under no circumstances can preach the doctrine of morality and righteousness in Syria, because you have supported a tyrant dictator who has murdered his own civilian population in the pursuit of controlling the throne of Damascus. Therefore, in comparison the ruling regime in Iran is no different to Erdogan, since the financing of militants such as Hezbollah and the role of the Revolutionary Guards in Syria has destabilized the whole region.

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## BLACKEAGLE

One of the pilots has bit the dust.

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## Peaceful Civilian

What was Russian jet doing in Turkish air space. This incident was bound to happen. In past turkey warned them several times.

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## TopCat

Russia can just handover some Kornet/Katyousha and Verba manpad to the Kurds inside Turkey which will keep Turkey busy for the next decade or so.

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## Juicer

Sinan said:


> And they will NUKE Turkey than NATO after that all the Human kind.....things in real life doesn't work like they do in your mind.



When I said this kind of things !? 
why you are acting like a 5 year old spoiled girl !?


----------



## 帅的一匹

KediKesenFare said:


> The behavior of the Chinese people in this thread shows that China is still a developing country.


Nuke talks or Erdogan is extremist?

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## The-king

iajdani said:


> Russia can just handover some Kornet/Katyousha and Verba manpad to the Kurds inside Turkey which will keep Turkey busy for the next decade or so.


 No not agreed the simply do once carpet bombing and RIP to Russia Kurds.


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## 帅的一匹

Juicer said:


> When I said this kind of things !?
> why you are acting like a 5 year old spoiled girl !?


Calm down, Russia won't let it go so easily. Nukes aside, any types of retaliation will be adopted.

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## Perpendicular

Paksanity said:


> Any info what weapons F-16s used? AIM-9 or AIM-120?


AIM 120C

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## BLACKEAGLE

wanglaokan said:


> Calm down, Russia won't let it go so easily. Nukes aside, any types of retaliation will be adopted.


Everybody is next to Turkey aside from the totalitarian dictatorships.

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## Blackmoon

Russia is Turkey’s 2nd largest trading partner & depends on Moscow for 60% of its natural gas imports and 35% of its oil. Wise decision?

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## The-king

Perpendicular said:


> AIM 120C


In that case SU-30 MKI of IAF in great danger we have these monsters quite in number


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## M.AsfandYar

Sinan said:


> Seems like i have to explain this for several times.....


Y EXPLAIN WHEN YOU CAN JUST IGNORE?

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## Sanchez

I guess none of us really know the facts! If Turks are saying the truth then they have rights to shoot down intruders. If Russians are telling the truth then Turkey would be retaliated without mercy. I don't think the US of A or Nato would move their fingers if ther Turkish pilots did that stupid shot.

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## TopCat

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Everybody is next to Turkey aside from the* totalitarian dictatorships*.



You from Jordan?


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## kollang

Good for Syria
Good for Iran 
Bad for Turkey
And Russia is a loser if she doesnt respond properly.no one should expect Russia to escalate an all out war though.I guess Turks should stay away from Syrian airspace for quite some times.

R.I.P to the fallen pilot anyway.

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## Perpendicular

The-king said:


> In that case SU-30 MKI of IAF in great danger we have these monsters quite in number


They did'nt brought down SU 30 now did they.


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## Gazprom

Sanchez said:


> I guess none of us really know the facts! If Turks are saying the truth then they have rights to shoot down intruders. If Russians are telling the truth then Turkey would be retaliated without mercy. I don't think the US of A or Nato would move their fingers if ther Turkish pilots did that stupid shot.



Wait for Russia to saddle up. Russia gets on the horse slow,but rides it very fast.


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## ultron

Looks like Russian special forces deployed.

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## Rukarl

farhan_9909 said:


> R.even if it is convetional,turkey alone can do hell of damage to Russia.


LOL

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## KediKesenFare3

Saho said:


> I'm surprise no one mention PKK. They will most likely get new funding and weapons from Russia because of this.



That will not happen. Turkey does not support the Chechen rebels and Russia does not support the PKK in return. In addition, the Russians have borrowed the Turks a loan of 20 billion dollars for the construction of a nuclear power plant. One should not forget that Turkey does not participate in the Western sanctions. The Crimea is partially supplied via Turkey and Ankara is right after Germany the most important gas customer of Moscow.
The relationship between Russia and Turkey is one of the most interesting in Eurasia. The ruling elites of both countries hate each other. They block and betray each other. But they never - never! - argue in public.

It's funny.

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## pher

Juicer said:


> do you think the western would enter a nuclear war for sake of Turkey !?


they delustion the whites will treat them equal. in reality, they are just expendable.

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## kollang

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Everybody is next to Turkey aside from the totalitarian dictatorships.


Didnt know Saudis and pretty much all Arab countries are on Russia's side


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## Perpendicular

Husnainshah said:


> An emergency meeting by a NATO's been called.


Bracing for Impact


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## The-king

Perpendicular said:


> They did'nt brought down SU 30 now did they.


If 120C hit latest version of SU_24 then it can easily pray on SU-30 also.


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## Rukarl

Rebels killed the pilots

*Breaking'One of Russian pilots dead on landing'*
Posted at12:14
A Syrian rebel group says one of the Russian pilots who ejected from his downed warplane was dead on landing. 

*AP quotes Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast as saying the two Russian crew members had tried to parachute into a government-held area after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group. *

Earlier, Reuters reported it had seen video from a rebel group that appeared to show one of the pilots immobile and badly wounded on the ground.


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## The-king

brother this is not required we should not become party with the two both are equally important to us.

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## -SINAN-

Sanchez said:


> I guess none of us really know the facts! If Turks are saying the truth then they have rights to shoot down intruders. If Russians are telling the truth then Turkey would be retaliated without mercy. I don't think the US of A or Nato would move their fingers if ther Turkish pilots did that stupid shot.


If Russians are telling the truth why they are not sharing their radar signatures like we did ?

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## Nilgiri

The only nuking I foresee is gonna be from @waz and other mods regarding some comments on this thread

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## Sanchez

kollang said:


> Good for Syria
> Good for Iran
> Bad for Turkey
> And Russia is a loser if she doesnt respond properly.no one should expect Russia to escalate an all out war though.I guess Turks should stay away from Syrian airspace for quite some times.
> 
> R.I.P to the fallen pilot anyway.



The pilots are not yet dead, bro!

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## M.AsfandYar

Vyom said:


> Pardon me for being Ignorant but whats with the Chinese members? They have gone full Pro Russia, Pakistanis have gone full Pro-turkey. This is bl00dy rare !!


diamond eyes for you


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## Nilgiri

Sanchez said:


> The pilots are not yet dead, bro!



One is pretty much confirmed dead (judging from the pictures). Other has been captured and is being held by "forces".


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## BordoEnes

kollang said:


> Good for Syria
> Good for Iran
> Bad for Turkey
> And Russia is a loser if she doesnt respond properly.no one should expect Russia to escalate an all out war though.I guess Turks should stay away from Syrian airspace for quite some times.
> 
> R.I.P to the fallen pilot anyway.



How about you suck it up and admit this was a proper badasss response by Turkey hmmm? I hope Russians and Syrians keep sending their fighter jets so we can deliver more "good" news to them. Let this be a message, dont fvck with Turkey.

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## RoadRunner401

monitor said:


> Ir
> 
> Iraq, Afghanistan was one-sided war, so no enjoyment. BTW, I am not seriously wishing a war of titans because everybody will be directly indirectly affected.



You enjoy war, death and destruction?


----------



## Soulspeek

JUST IN:

Syrian rebels hv also downed a Russian helicopter sent on pilot rescue mission!
Ab bolo!!


----------



## KAL-EL

@Whazzup I attempted to write on your profile, but you have it closed off. I wanted to say I liked your profile pic. I watch the Vampire Diaries

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## Indos

The-king said:


> If 120C hit latest version of SU_24 then it can easily pray on SU-30 also.



Or maybe Russian plane is just ignoring even though the plane has already get locked since they think they will not be shoot any way. I see Russian become so over confident because no one dare to stop them. 

I believe there is no dog fight during the moment and Russian plane is just ignoring the warning and locking by the Turkish, and this behavior that make the order to shoot come out.

The reason of why there is only one Su 24 over there can tell some message though, Russia doesnt escort that bomber.........

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## Sanchez

Sinan said:


> If Russians are telling the truth why they are not sharing their radar signatures like we did ?



Sinan, I am not saying Russians are telling the truth. One of you two must have had wrong doings. In any case the bad guy would be punished.

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## KAL-EL

Soulspeek said:


> JUST IN:
> 
> Syrian rebels hv also downed a Russian helicopter sent on pilot rescue mission!
> Ab bolo!!



sh** just got real !!


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## Rasengan

BuddhaPalm said:


> Now its time for nuclear strikes against Ankara.
> 
> Constantinopol will be liberated.



The Turkish Government's policies have been incorrect in the past, however any nuclear strike on Turkey will galvanize Muslim support across the world for them, including the State of Pakistan which would never accept such an attack.

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## Vyom

The-king said:


> If 120C hit latest version of SU_24 then it can easily pray on SU-30 also.


No, it was a defenseless SU-24 bomber... Su 30 is a twin Engines Air Superiority fighter... a lot of difference between the two..


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## Rukarl

Soulspeek said:


> JUST IN:
> 
> Syrian rebels hv also downed a Russian helicopter sent on pilot rescue mission!
> Ab bolo!!


Why spread rumours ?

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## Sanchez

Nilgiri said:


> One is pretty much confirmed dead (judging from the pictures). Other has been captured and is being held by "forces".



Which forces? I read they both parachuted and landed on the Syrian side.

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## RoadRunner401

*Kremlin says the incident with crashed Russian plane too serious to rush with conclusions*

Vladimir Putin's press secretary considers it incorrect to talk about any consequences for Russian-Turkish relations after the incident with Russian plane that crashed in Syria

SOCHI, November 24. /TASS/. The Kremlin considers it incorrect to talk about any consequences for Russian-Turkish relations after the incident with Russia’s Sukhoi Su-24 warplane, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Tuesday

"It would be wrong now to give any assessments, assumptions or make any conclusions before we get a full picture," Peskov said in reply to a question about the prospects of relations between Moscow and Ankara.

"We have to be patient, it is a very serious incident, but again, without all of the information it is impossible to say anything and it would be wrong."

The Kremlin has no idea if Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov’s visit to Turkey, due on Wednesday, November 25 will be canceled.

"Make a phone call to the Foreign Ministry," Dmitry Peskov advised the media, when asked about Lavrov’s visit.

According to the spokesman, Russian President Vladimir Putin may voice his reaction concerning the incident with the Su-24 aircraft.

"I did not say that Putin will make a statement at a meeting with the king [Abdullah II the Russian leader is to meet later today], I said that we can assume that this issue will be raised. Perhaps the president will give his assessment," Peskov said.

"We can assume that the president will address this issue in his conversation with the king in any case, that there will be a reaction from the president," he added.

When asked whether one can expect a discussion of the incident with the Turkish side, the Kremlin official said: "You say "with the Turkish side" - so far we have not heard any final statements from the Defense Ministry about the causes of the crash. Let's wait (for clarification of the military department)," the presidential spokesman said.

*Media reports on Putin’s intent to convene Russia’s Security Council not confirmed*

The Kremlin spokesman did not confirm reports of the Turkish media that Russian President Vladimir Putin will convene an emergency meeting of the Russian Security Council due to the incident.
"Turkish media are unlikely to be aware when and why Putin convenes an emergency or a regular meeting of the Security Council," Presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov said, adding that for Tuesday only talks with Jordan’s King Abdullah II are scheduled for Russian President.

"We’ll surely inform you if additional events appear for today or later on in (Russian President’s) schedule," Peskov added.

*Kremlin knows for sure that downed Russian Su-24 jet was above Syria*

Dmitry Peskov said the Kremlin knows for sure that the downed Russian Su-24 jet was above Syria’s territory.

"I have nothing to add on the jet to what the Defense Ministry has said," Peskov said.

"The Defense Ministry has not yet named the reason of the plane’s crash. We know for sure that the plane was in Syria’s air space, above Syria’s territory," he added.

He also said the Defense Ministry used the word "presumably" in its statement.

"Before we get any clarifying information, it’s impossible to answer this question," Peskov told reporters asking him to comment on the incident.

The Russian Defense Ministry said earlier that a Sukhoi-24 aircraft of the Russian air group had crashed in Syria, presumably, as a result of an attack from the ground. At the moment of the attack the plane was at an altitude of 6,000 meters. The pilots’ fate is unclear at the moment. According to early reports both managed to eject themselves.

"Throughout the flight the plane was exclusively over Syrian territory. Objective monitoring data confirm that," the Defense Ministry said.

Meanwhile, the Turkish General Staff said the country’s Air Force had attacked a plane that had allegedly violated the country’s airspace. According to its statement, the intruder plane had been warned ten times before being attacked by two F-16 fighters of the Turkish Air Force.


----------



## Zarvan

Frosty said:


> *Turkey shoots down 'Russian jet' near Syrian border and video shows plane coming down*
> 
> 
> 
> *Turkey shoots down 'Russian jet' near Syrian border and video shows plane coming down | Middle East | News | The Independent*


Good job Turkey

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## spiderkiller

BordoEnes said:


> How about you suck it up and admit this was a proper badasss response by Turkey hmmm? I hope Russians and Syrians keep sending their fighter jets so we can deliver more "good" news to them. Let this be a message, dont fvck with Turkey.


oh my you are really feeling like a superpower don't you ?  you are gonna face some tough days. remember you are the one living in a glass house not russia.

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## 500

Blackmoon said:


> Interesting turkey is now ISIS and Al Qaeda air force. Good job.


Turkish pilots defended THEIR airspace.
Russian pilots defended FOREIGN sectarian dictator.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Rukarl said:


> Why spread rumours ?





Sanchez said:


> Which forces? I read they both parachuted and landed on the Syrian side.





KAL-EL said:


> sh** just got real !!


Video allegedly shows dead Russian pilot surrounded by armed rebels in Syria (GRAPHIC) — RT News

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## Nilgiri

Sanchez said:


> Which forces? I read they both parachuted and landed on the Syrian
> side.



From BBC:

*One of Russian pilots dead on landing'*
Posted at12:14
A Syrian rebel group says one of the Russian pilots who ejected from his downed warplane was dead on landing. 

AP quotes Jahed Ahmad of the 10th Brigade in the Coast as saying the two Russian crew members had tried to parachute into a government-held area after they ejected, but came under fire from members of his group. 

Earlier, Reuters reported it had seen video from a rebel group that appeared to show one of the pilots immobile and badly wounded on the ground.

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## Saurabh jindals

Vapnope said:


> If it is a Russian Plane things are gonna get heat up in Turkey.


Its the time for turkey to pack his A$$


----------



## KAL-EL

BuddhaPalm said:


> Time for the nuclear bear to pounce on Turkey and rip it to pieces!



This thread is about a very serious subject.

That being said.. You my friend are absolute comedy gold

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## DESERT FIGHTER

500 said:


> Turkish pilots defended THEIR airspace.
> Russian pilots defended FOREIGN sectarian dictator.



Yes .. And Israelis are crying out of love for Syrians .. Fukin hypocrisy.

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## BordoEnes

The passive aggresive butthurt behavior of the childish members shows their retarded mindset, especcially the Chinese and Iranian members(not all).

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## cnleio

Silence before the storm

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## okan tekis

people here talking a lot of shit 
they gonna nuke us < we gonna nuke russia 

dont talk shit you dont know anyting

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## BordoEnes

spiderkiller said:


> oh my you are really feeling like a superpower don't you ?  you are gonna face some tough days. remember you are the one living in a glass house not russia.



Yup. For years Turkey played passively, giving next to no effort to fight back Russian and Iranian influence but this should be a proper message to anyone who fvcks with Turkey. We downed Russian jets, and we will day anyone's else.

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## asena_great

IR1907 said:


> Then keep the Turks on a leash.





Malik Alashter said:


> Then you should hold your dog tide otherwise you are responsible for the harm he does.


 watch your mouth


----------



## The-king

Vyom said:


> No, it was a defenseless SU-24 bomber... Su 30 is a twin Engines Air Superiority fighter... a lot of difference between the two..


SU-24 also twin engine and quite capable aircraft before quote kindly at least check Wikipedia.

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## Sanchez

cnleio said:


> Silence before the storm
> 
> View attachment 274437
> View attachment 274438

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## Rasengan

Their is a good reason why many members who have participated in this thread hold no political office in government, because playing Call of Duty does not work in the real world.

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## Slav Defence

*Behave yourselves *

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## KAL-EL

Rasengan said:


> Their is a good reason why many members who have participated in this thread hold no political office in government, *because playing Call of Duty does not work in the real world*.

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## spiderkiller

BordoEnes said:


> Yup. For years Turkey played passively, giving next to no effort to fight back Russian and Iranian influence but this should be a proper message to anyone who fvcks with Turkey. We downed Russian jets, and we will day anyone's else.


dude who is fu/cking with turkey?you paranoid or something? this jet was over syrian border its proven based on the borders su24 couldn't be on turkish air space for more than 30 seconds. your gov just made a mistake and you are trying to say you did the right thing. remember your economy is based on security. anything threatens that is not going to be good for you.

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## ZerTes

Hello Kurdistan

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## Rukarl

Breaking news
Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back

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## Vyom

The-king said:


> SU-24 also twin engine and quite capable aircraft before quote kindly at least check Wikipedia.



Oh yes. if SU-24 was = SU 30 then there was no need to make Su 30 in the first place, isn't it ?

and Su30 is an sir superiority fighter not a bomber like Su 24. SU 24s are not supposed to operate in Contested air space SU 30 are supposed to fight in a Contested airspace very different aircraft. It was dumb of Russia to not to have any Air Superiority Aircraft in the area.

about reading Wikipedia, read roles of aircraft too..


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## Juicer

spiderkiller said:


> dude who is fu/cking with turkey?you paranoid or something? this jet was over syrian border its proven based on the borders su25 couldn't be on turkish air space for more than 30 seconds. your gov just made a mistake and you are trying to say you did the right thing. remember your economy is based on security. anything threatens that is not going to be good for you.



They was waiting for this moment ... and base of NATO immediate reaction , I assume this incident was planned before hand ...

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## proka89

There won't be war between Turkey and Russia over this. And people talking about nukes are either trolls, or just plain stupid. We can expect a lot of diplomatic outrage, maybe some economic measures, and harder airstrikes from Russia (but this time with heavy fighter cover for their bombers).

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## Sanchez

BordoEnes said:


> The passive aggresive butthurt behavior of the childish members shows their retarded mindset, especcially the Chinese and Iranian members(not all).



I think you Turkish poster behave more like butthurt and a bit hysteric. Calm down, we all want to know the truth.

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## It.is.all.mudi's.fault

Guys, Even Mainstream Media outlets have started reporting downing of Russian Search and Rescue Helicopter.

BREAKING: Second pilot found dead amid reports rescue helicopter also DOWNED | World | News | Daily Express

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## pkd

Graphic Video of the fateful pilot posted by rebels

Silver Surfer on Twitter: "#Syria: Another video of the killed #Russia|n Su-24 fighter pilot shot down by #Turkeyv @markito0171 GRAPHIC 18+ https://t.co/EVUXSYHABj"


----------



## Saifullah

IR1907 said:


> If you and your freinds behave then there is no problem but if you show ISIS mentality expect a proper reply.





Sinan said:


> More info revealing.
> 
> As far as i understood. Russian aircraft violated Turkish airspace 2 times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It violated, circled and violated again despite warnings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Missile fired by Turkish F-16 at "HH036-180" when it entered the Turkish airspace for the second time, missile hit the Russian aircraft at "HH037-203"



First of all i love Turkey and you are brother to me.
With respect to you. The map given above, there were two jets which violated Turkish airspace and both of them left the air space and the plane was targeted when it left the airspace a while for quiet a time. if Turkey wanted to down the plane it should have been done when they entered Turkish airspace and before they left it.

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## danger007

good action from Turkey... may be Russia will payback if not today..

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## Peaceful Civilian

Turkey has right to defend it's airspace. Russia didn't listen several warning many times. It happened in past too.


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## Oublious

Twink twice before fly above Turkish soil, listen carefully.

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## Arsalan

Its so disgusting to see significant number of posters cheering this incident. If anyone thinks that it will be fun to watch this whole saga blown into an all out war, i have yet to come across a fool bigger than him. Any all out war between the forces of this magnitude will mean end of world as we know today.
Let us just wait and pray things get handled sensible and things remain under control as any sane man would want to. 

*Cut the childish cheering and jeering, nothing good comes out of war and from a war of this potential magnitude, nothing (either good or bad) will come out at all. *

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## The-king

*Russian warplane shot down at Syria-Turkey borderLIVE UPDATES*
Published time: 24 Nov, 2015 11:22
Get short URL





A Russian Su-24 front-line bomber jet. © Dmitriy Vinogradov / Sputnik

A Russian warplane has gone down near the Turkish-Syrian border after an apparent attack. Turkish and Russian sources have given conflicting reports about the incident, which has the potential to escalate the tension between Russia and NATO member Turkey.

24 November 2015

*12:53 GMT*
Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane and acted as accomplices of the terrorists, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

The plane was hit by a Turkish warplane as it was travelling 1 km away from the Turkish border, Putin said. The plane posed no threat to Turkish national security, he stressed.

Putin said the plane was targeting terrorist targets in the Latakia province of Syria, many of whom came from Russia.

Russia noticed of the flow of oil from Syrian territory under the control of terrorists to Turkey, Putin said.

Apparently, IS now not only receives revenue from the smuggling of oil, but also has the protection of a nation’s military, Putin said. This may explain why the terrorist group is so bold in taking acts of terrorism across the world, he added.

The incident will have grave consequences for Russia’s relations with Turkey, Putin warned.

The fact that Turkey did not try to contact Russia in the wake of the incident and rushed to call a NATO meeting instead is worrisome, Putin said. It appears that Turkey want NATO to serve the interests of IS, he added.


*12:35 GMT*
Several protesters have showed up in front of the Turkish Embassy in Moscow to protest the downing of the Russian bomber. “Turkey, are you for or against ISIS?” one of the banners said in Russian.


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## Sanchez

spiderkiller said:


> dude who is fu/cking with turkey?you paranoid or something? this jet was over syrian border its proven based on the borders su24 couldn't be on turkish air space for more than 30 seconds. your gov just made a mistake and you are trying to say you did the right thing. remember your economy is based on security. anything threatens that is not going to be good for you.



Exactly, it might be a deliberate mistake and that's stupid.

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## cnleio

The stock market after attack

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## Great Sachin

Turkey dont like Russian aggression since Turkey was enjoying ISIS oil product at dirt cheap price...but bad move by Turkey

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## Uzair Shafiq [Босс]

WW3 :3


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## Arsalan

Uzair Shafiq [Босс] said:


> WW3 :3
> At least we get kashmir back.


Don't act stupid!!



Arsalan said:


> Its so disgusting to see significant number of posters cheering this incident. If anyone thinks that it will be fun to watch this whole saga blown into an all out war, i have yet to come across a fool bigger than him. Any all out war between the forces of this magnitude will mean end of world as we know today.
> Let us just wait and pray things get handled sensible and things remain under control as any sane man would want to.
> 
> *Cut the childish cheering and jeering, nothing good comes out of war and from a war of this potential magnitude, nothing (either good or bad) will come out at all. *


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## Perpendicular

This incident will have serious consequences for Russia Turkey relations : Putin

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## EnggineerShahjehan

If a US jet was shot down by Iran i would have been equally happy as in this incident, glad to see a muslim nation with dignity and honor to defend it own borders , but whats saddening part is most shia's are sympathising with russians at the moment and they are hoping for a revenge from russian side. That's unacceptable.

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## Ceylal

Kamil_baku said:


> For those who has no idea about Turkish army capabilities... Russia simply cannot do anything about that. Two days ago, Russia started to bomb Turkish origin Turkmen people in Syria and captured their strategic location(it was taken back by Turkmen forces two days later), i think, this was the reason angered Turkey and wanted to warn Russia this way. The region is getting more danger...


We saw the capabilities of the Turkish army against Israel when she attacked the flotilla and killed 18 of your citizens. But the likelyhood of having your sultan stuffed in his mouth by Putin is a reality, especially if the SU24 was in Syrian airspace.!

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## flamer84

spiderkiller said:


> dude who is fu/cking with turkey?you paranoid or something? this jet was over syrian border its proven based on the borders su24 couldn't be on turkish air space for more than 30 seconds. your gov just made a mistake and you are trying to say you did the right thing. remember your economy is based on security. anything threatens that is not going to be good for you.




It's not the first time they did this,and it's not the first time when Russians bragg of closing Syrian airspace to others.

Hello there AIM 120

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## Peaceful Civilian

EnggineerShahjehan said:


> Job well done turkey, love u Turks love Erdegon , few decades ago we Pakistani taught russians a lesson now its ur turn to teach them again


We shot down their jets too in afganistan. We were allies of U.S, western coalition. Again Russia can't do anything against turkey, not only turkey is a Nato member but also enjoys support of U.S.A & others.
Russia can only blame themselves for taking turkey as light country & not listening warning of turkey after they violated airspace many times.

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## Great Sachin

Sinan said:


> If Russians are telling the truth why they are not sharing their radar signatures like we did ?


Technically you may be right..but can you claim that Russian plane entered in Turkey to attack your nation....if not then morally you are wrong....or wanna enjoy ISIS oil for almost free


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## Dash

Turkey is acting funny these days, playing a weak game backed by strong brothers. Hope she doesnt get dumped later. Else Putin will not forgive or at least forget this. NATO may not side with Turkey this time, after all Turkmen Alqaida was branded as a terrorist org by UN and Russians were right in hunting them..

Turkey has gone into a bigger mess and like someone said, the $hit just got real.


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## aakash_2410

As much as I disagree with literally everything Putin stands for, I'd love to see Russia teach these terrorist sympathising Turks a lesson.

Bear in mind these are the same people who were booing Paris victims last week and now they wanna invoke the 'NATO' card.

@mike2000 is back @FrenchPilot @flamer84

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## Rukarl

Peaceful Civilian said:


> We shot down their jets too in afganistan. * We were allies of U.S, western coalition*. Again Russia can't do anything against turkey, not only turkey is a Nato member but also enjoys support of U.S & others.
> Russia can only blame themselves for taking turkey as light country & not listening warning of turkey after they violated airspace in past.


Thanks for indirectly admitting that you have always been a pawn in the great Rus-US game.(in favor to the latter)

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## ANMDT

Juicer said:


> they will use UNSC or shot down some Turkey fighters in cumming month and use the same excuse


Several warnings on corresponding vessel also border violation without notify turkey about it, It has been said before when they violated the airspace as if its their own , not a small distance penetrated as well. 
I dont think there is no excuse to hit back or for UNSC , putin should check his general.

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## Jlaw

500 said:


> U obviously skipped physics lessons in school. Jet flying at high altitude with 900-1000 km/h speed can easily fly over 10 km after being shot.


Most likely shot in Syrian space, than as it went down it hit Turk airspace.

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## The SiLent crY

The cure is S400 and a no fly zone over Syria .

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## Ceylal

Frosty said:


> LATEST: Jet warned before being targeted, nationality of downed plane is yet unclear - Turkish military official http://on.rt.com/6xe7
> 
> 
> URGENT: Turkish PM orders foreign ministry to consult with NATO,UN on latest developments on Syrian border- CNN Türk http://on.rt.com/6xe7
> 
> MORE: 2 pilots parachuting out of downed jet (VIDEO) (pic by @HaberturkTV) http://on.rt.com/6xe7


NATO is not going to help Turkey..like they didn't side with her in the flotilla attack., and against the Russians it is for obvious reasons..

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## Old Navigator

Well, turkey shouldn't have fired missile at plane which was definitely leaving turk air space. 
You are not at war with Russia to shoot at aircraft which(even provoking ) was just about to leave your air space. You, i, the world, in fact every country on this earth knows it was not there to attack turkey... even if this was right of turkey, they should have used it with extreme caution.....

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## BordoEnes

ZerTes said:


> Hello Kurdistan



Greet as much as you want. We greeted you people with a missile.

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## Rukarl

Ceylal said:


> NATO is not going to help Turkey..like they didn't side with her in the flotilla attack., and against the Russians it is for obvious reasons..


In reality NATO's borders recedes all the way back to Germany.

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## Abingdonboy

The TuAF have massively f*cked up on an almost unfathomable level.

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## brahmastra

looks like Turks forgot the lesson from The Great War.

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## Abingdonboy

Archdemon said:


> Nothing dramatic will happen, unlike Turks which are hotheaded Russians are calculated and rational, in war you have casualties, this minor incident is, well it is minor, business as usual for Russians.


According to other sites, Putin has explicitly stated that there will be repurcussions.

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## pkd

French media report that Russia has blocked all sales of gas to Turkey in wake of Su-24 shootdown

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## Rukarl

BordoEnes said:


> Greet as much as you want. We greeted you people with a missile up your arze.


You have Ataturk as your avatar (someone i like) yet you defend the actions of a radical islamist that is bringing your country to the brink of war. Be a sane patriot not a crazy one.

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## Abingdonboy

Ulysses said:


> Russia won't dare attack a fellow NATO member unless it wants to commit suicide.
> 
> We currently have a huge presence in Turkey.


The question is if the US/NATO will stand by Turkey in this- I would say there are a lot of NATO diplomats and officals berating their Turkish counterparts as we speak.

Ask yourself, is the West willing to commit suicide itself for Turkey?


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## Rain

Tayyab Ergodan will do to turkey what Zia did to Pakistan.


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## The-king

The SiLent crY said:


> Well , unlike some Sunnis like you who have many things in common with ISIS , Al Qaeda and their supporters , Shias have serious problems with them be it in Afghanistan , Yemen , Syria or Iraq .
> 
> Its good not all Sunnis think like you and some have survived massive radicalization of Wahhabis .


Russia is not USSR remember that even back then they beat USSR just backing by few bunch of fighters and ISI don't you remember.


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## Peaceful Civilian

Rukarl said:


> Thanks for indirectly admitting that you have always been a pawn in the great Rus-US game.(in favor to the latter)


Russia sides with India Against pak, there is no reason to side with Russia in "Russia-U.S.A" games. 
Uncle Sam should win. And we have better relation since 1960s.
Even we broke Soviet Union with coalition forces And we took revenge of Soviet Union role against Pakistan in 1971.

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## Dash

Abingdonboy said:


> According to other sites, Putin has explicitly stated that there will be repurcussions.



There was really no need to shoot down the plane. Or may be this is just Unkil's ploy to start a Russia Turkey fight to divert attention from Syria?. Putin must play well here.


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## The SiLent crY

Peaceful Civilian said:


> We shot down their jets too in afganistan. We were allies of U.S, western coalition. Again Russia can't do anything against turkey, not only turkey is a Nato member but also enjoys support of U.S.A & others.
> Russia can only blame themselves for taking turkey as light country & not listening warning of turkey after they violated airspace many times.



Yep , you shot their planes in 80s and have been suffering since then .

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## ultron

There's no prove the Su-24 ever entered Turkey. It WAS shot down over Syria. Turkey is in trouble now.

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## Jlaw

Nilgiri said:


> Why are Chinese so anti-Turkey? Is it because of Turkish support to Uighurs?
> 
> Russia is too smart to get drawn into a wider conflict with Turkey. There will be some statements, some tensions...and in the end Russia is not going to fly so close to the border anymore.
> 
> That will be that......warmongering bozos will be sorely disappointed.


You grew up in HK. Why are you so anti Chinese?

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## Perpendicular

It seems both pilots are dead, unconfirmed reports.


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## sherin616

cnleio said:


> WWIII maybe, NATO vs Russia ... or Turkey vs Russia


Nato vs Russia china maybe india or Pakistan


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## flamer84

From another forum,Putin on live TV:




> "Turkish F-16 shot down Russian Su-24 with air to air missile"
> 
> "It's a knife in the back" - no shit ladies and gentlemen, nazi talk is alive
> 
> "Turkey - terrorist counterparts" , it "will have grave consequences on Russian-Turkey relations", "Turkey wants to drag NATO into ISIS side"


----------



## Nilgiri

Jlaw said:


> You grew up in HK. Why are you so anti Chinese?



I am anti-troll, not anti-Chinese.

Calling for the nuking of Turkey is quite immature, trollish behaviour.

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## Dash

The-king said:


> Russia is not USSR remember that even back then they beat USSR just backing by few bunch of fighters and ISI don't you remember.



You are comparing apples with oranges. These tow are very different type of incidents, different context, different allies, different enimies. So much different that NATO cant do anything about it. Ruissia has support of Syria, Iran, China and have been able to nutralize middle east. This was not teh same conditions back then with Afghan Soviet war.


----------



## -SINAN-

The-king said:


> *Russian warplane shot down at Syria-Turkey borderLIVE UPDATES*
> Published time: 24 Nov, 2015 11:22
> Get short URL
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A Russian Su-24 front-line bomber jet. © Dmitriy Vinogradov / Sputnik
> 
> A Russian warplane has gone down near the Turkish-Syrian border after an apparent attack. Turkish and Russian sources have given conflicting reports about the incident, which has the potential to escalate the tension between Russia and NATO member Turkey.
> 
> 24 November 2015
> 
> *12:53 GMT*
> Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane and acted as accomplices of the terrorists, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
> 
> The plane was hit by a Turkish warplane as it was travelling 1 km away from the Turkish border, Putin said. The plane posed no threat to Turkish national security, he stressed.
> 
> Putin said the plane was targeting terrorist targets in the Latakia province of Syria, many of whom came from Russia.
> 
> Russia noticed of the flow of oil from Syrian territory under the control of terrorists to Turkey, Putin said.
> 
> Apparently, IS now not only receives revenue from the smuggling of oil, but also has the protection of a nation’s military, Putin said. This may explain why the terrorist group is so bold in taking acts of terrorism across the world, he added.
> 
> The incident will have grave consequences for Russia’s relations with Turkey, Putin warned.
> 
> The fact that Turkey did not try to contact Russia in the wake of the incident and rushed to call a NATO meeting instead is worrisome, Putin said. It appears that Turkey want NATO to serve the interests of IS, he added.
> 
> 
> *12:35 GMT*
> Several protesters have showed up in front of the Turkish Embassy in Moscow to protest the downing of the Russian bomber. “Turkey, are you for or against ISIS?” one of the banners said in Russian.



No Nukes ?


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## cnleio

sherin616 said:


> Nato vs Russia china maybe india or Pakistan


Im sure China would provide funds support to Russia, but only when fire into Russian lands China will send military force with Russia together. Don't forget we have SCO.

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## ultron

Turkey backs Nusra which is Al Qaeda. Turkey will pay.

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## Kamil_baku

FrenchPilot said:


> Because we do not want an escalation. I dont want to fight Russia for Turkey if they react...
> 
> @bobo6661 @flamer84 @mike2000 is back


Thats why we Turkish people never believe you Westerners... you are well known for being a back stabber.. If we shot it down, it means Turkey itself got balls to defend, not rely on you! We saw what happened in Ukraine, who started to fight with Russian to join "European Union"...

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## Ceylal

balixd said:


> what has really shocked me is the War mongering on this thread ----


True more blood, more thanks...especially if it's Syrian, Yemeni, Iraqi, Palestinian...

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## Abingdonboy

Dash said:


> There was really no need to shoot down the plane. Or may be this is just Unkil's ploy to start a Russia Turkey fight to divert attention from Syria?. Putin must play well here.


Like I said- the TuAF f*cked up, shooting down the plane was just beyond stupid. And this is literally the last thing the US or the rest of NATO want, they are in no way orchastrating such an event. 

+ Putin will play this to perfection, he is by far the most strategically astute world leader on the global stage.

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## The-king

Sinan said:


> No Nukes ?


They can't balls long back cut down by USA


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## Peaceful Civilian

The SiLent crY said:


> Yep , you shot their planes in 80s and have been suffering since then .


Soviet is already broken. We are not. Now, we are in better position . Armed nuclear state, Cruise missile system, armed drone tech and right path of democracy, motorways, metro bus system, roads. etc

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## Jlaw

Nilgiri said:


> I am anti-troll, not anti-Chinese.
> 
> Calling for the nuking of Turkey is quite immature, trollish behaviour.


 I know some false flaggers using China flags but it's the internet, anyone can be from anywhere.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices — RT News


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## Gasoline

simple Brain said:


> lol everyone is going to laugh at your comment, don't you realize where you from by the way?



Don't -I- realize- where- I'm- from ? 

Is that a question or joke ?  Am I supposed to laugh or cry that your kind of people are still exists.

War is not like video games, okay kid ? 

Now it's time to go back to play with your toys.  

Take this so you can be busy with it, kid :

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## Blackmoon

500 said:


> Turkish pilots defended THEIR airspace.
> Russian pilots defended FOREIGN sectarian dictator.



Seriously ? 
Militaristic evaluation about the downed Russian jet by Turkish air force.

I advise you to read this articular might change your mind.
Fighting Al Qaeda , Isis and nusra is about defending sectarian dictator ? 
Is it about safety of Israel ? because most Persian gulf Arab country are sectarian dictators but we don't see any terrorist or so called "revolution" over there.

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## Dash

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I said- the TuAF f*cked up, shooting down the plane was just beyond stupid. And this is literally the last thing the US or the rest of NATO want, they are in no way orchastrating such an event.
> 
> + Putin will play this to perfection, he is by far the most strategically astute world leader on the global stage.



Now a pilot has been murdered.


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## Ceylal

Sinan said:


> Russian plane violated Turkish airspace for 5 minutes despite 10 warnings. Shot down by 2 F-16s.
> 
> Edit: One of the pilots captured by Turkmen forces in Syria, they are looking for the second pilot.


Russians said otherwise...

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## nik22

A grave mistake by Turkey. Their fighter should have tried to get radar lock to warn Russian fighter. Russian ambassador should have been called to lodge protest.
Turkey is trying to settle score here with Russia or it is US sending a message.
As per reports, one pilot is dead. That complicate the situation. Putin can not be seen as coward. Russia will reply.

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## Abingdonboy

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices — RT News


Now if those are some strong words "terrorist accomplances".


If Putin really wants to make the Turks stain their pants he will enact a no-fly zone over Kurdish territory- this is the thing the Turkigh government fears above all else (a functioning Kurdish state).


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## KAL-EL

Jlaw said:


> I know some false flaggers using China flags but it's the internet, anyone can be from anywhere.



Very true my friend. Unfortunately, PDF has more than its fair share of false flaggers.

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## Amaa'n

Russians, IF are smart would use Diplomatic means to press Turkey into the corner, the World unlike Amatuer warrior on this forum has a bigger threat to look at & take care of, and that is ISIS----

Turkey did effed up at the highest level but nothing sort of that cannot be dealt with Diplomatic bloackades ----

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## Abingdonboy

Dash said:


> Now a pilot has been murdered.


Source?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> Now if those are some strong words "terrorist accomplances".
> 
> 
> If Putin really wants to make the Turks stain their pants he will enact a no-fly zone over Kurdish territory- this is the thing the Turkigh government fears above all else (a functioning Kurdish state).



I doubt Russia will engage turkey militarily..

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## T-123456

Russia was warned multiple times not to cross into Turkish airspace,the rules of engagement had changed,Russia knew this and this incident was a consequence of that so,nothing but blah blah will happen.
Putin can threaten all he wants.

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## Kamil_baku

Immanuel said:


> Sorry but regardless of your military strength, your Govt. is full of pussies. Your President was so scared a couple of months back of ISIS that he had to call a emergency meeting in Brussels for NATO support. Your nation is essentially scared of rag tag group of terrorists. Nuff said, don't expect mercy from KGB, Turkey is about be roasted for thanks giving. From Russia with Love.


Dude, calling Nato is called politics... They dont control a convenience store, they basically control a country and would use its abilities to show internal kurdish population that Turkey is not next to ISIS and basically all around world news. We learned it from westerners, we play with the rules of game... 
We got the balls to down Russian plane, now lets see if they have those to attack back. Probably, everybody knows here the answer...

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## brahmastra

Mr Putin described the incident as a "*stab in the back*" committed by "*accomplices of terrorists"*.


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## sherin616

cnleio said:


> Im sure China would provide funds support to Russia, but only when fire into Russian lands China will send military force with Russia together. Don't forget we have SCO.


I think india still pro Russian

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## Abingdonboy

balixd said:


> Russians, IF are smart would use Diplomatic means to press Turkey into the corner, the World unlike Amatuer warrior on this forum has a bigger threat to look at & take care of, and that is ISIS----
> 
> Turkey did effed up at the highest level but nothing sort of that cannot be dealt with Diplomatic bloackades ----


No doubt, this isn't going to become a nuclear conflict or anything of the kind as some seem to be all too gleefully supporting but I don't think Putin is going to leave this back-channel diplomacy now. He will extract his pound of flesh one way or another and most likely it will be in a most unconventional manner and perfectly calculated.



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> I doubt Russia will engage turkey militarily..


The options available to Putin are vast


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## 帅的一匹

Ankit Kumar said:


> China has been economically, and to a slight extent supportive to Russia , when they came here.
> 
> And a conflict with Turkey will need economic support from China.


yes, we support Russia in this event. Our attitude is very clear. We will provide financial support to Russia if they need to annihilate ISIL. Kill those rats.

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## Kamil_baku

cirr said:


> A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。
> 
> Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。


You think only Russia got those missiles? Turkey has its own SOM cruise missiles, and can turn Russian airport in Syria to the hell!! 
You got good imagination kid. i wonder what you smoke there...

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## ANMDT

Abingdonboy said:


> no-fly zone


Turkey doesnt do anything on kurdish region over syria, except than bombing isis  
No fly zone isnt something putin capable alone


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## Ceylal

persona_non_grata said:


> Is not Turkey part of NATO?


It is one sided agreement...That the kind of agreement the West signs with vassals. Israel, as a non member, has more clout with NATO than Turkey as a full member..

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## Abingdonboy

nik22 said:


> A grave mistake by Turkey. Their fighter should have tried to get radar lock to warn Russian fighter. Russian ambassador should have been called to lodge protest.
> Turkey is trying to settle score here with Russia or it is US sending a message.
> As per reports, one pilot is dead. That complicate the situation. Putin can not be seen as coward. Russia will reply.


Indeed, this is how htese things normally go, what exactly was the TuAF thinking? Is this the result of the other self-styled "hard man" leader Erdoğan changing standing orders?


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## Leviza

I think Turkey made a mistake .. i remm when any unwanted aircraft entered your air space, the first thing comes to mind of army/airforce is to give enough warnings if the country is not in the war situation ...

Apart from that , if the decision is made to take it down then always its consider that it fell in your side and within your reach for next diplomatic games .. turkey clearly missed that and the ball is in russia hands now ... it gives them the open field to play diplomatically and based on situation which suits them...

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## Whazzup

Abingdonboy said:


> Like I said- the TuAF f*cked up, shooting down the plane was just beyond stupid.* And this is literally the last thing the US or the rest of NATO want, they are in no way orchastrating such an event.*



They just gonna say Russian plane crossed their border how Putin gonna use this situation ? Turkey will be seen as a country which has balls to shoot down a Russian plane , and no one buys ISIS supporting crap.

And for some war mongering kids there will be no war Why? cause Russia lacks cap to attack and do any significant damage to a country like Turkey that too is not linked directly to the main land Russia. And we're not even taking US into the equation . They should have stayed away from borders.

R.I.P to the dead pilot.

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## Gibbs

Kamil_baku said:


> Dude, calling Nato is called politics... They dont control a convenience store, they basically control a country and would use its abilities to show internal kurdish population that Turkey is not next to ISIS and basically all around world news. We learned it from westerners, we play with the rules of game...
> We got the balls to down Russian plane, now lets see if they have those to attack back. Probably, everybody knows here the answer...



More like Erdogan hid behind NATO and bit more than he could chew, Putting NATO itself in a difficult position.. Turkey is a regional power and a subordinate of NATO and it has nothing to take on Russia on it's own

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## Abingdonboy

isoo said:


> Turkey doesnt do anything on kurdish region over syria, except than bombing isis
> No fly zone isnt something putin capable alone


Any idea on how high this was escalated my friend? Would th order to shoot down have come from a local tactical commander or would it require top-level real time clearance from generals or even the President? Shooting down an aircraft is usually not a simple procedure and I'd be surprised if this was the decsion of the F-16 pilot.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Abingdonboy said:


> No doubt, this isn't going to become a nuclear conflict or anything of the kind as some seem to be all too gleefully supporting but I don't think Putin is going to leave this back-channel diplomacy now. He will extract his pound of flesh one way or another and most likely it will be in a most unconventional manner and perfectly calculated.
> 
> 
> The options available to Putin are vast



Middle East is already a cluster fuk .. More "options" .. Yeah that includes .. Propping up Kurds/PKK... Aggressive military movements ... Etc..

All that would only drag the region to more shyt... Specially if US somehow fully joins this "orgy"... But than again US/NATO intervention is very possible ...


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## Ceylal

bobo6661 said:


> Why are the Chines commens always so stupid ? Like it would not hit them to ...


Poland will be a training field, instead of worrying about China, you should think what would happen and where it would start. Poland is in the Front line..God forbid.

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## The SiLent crY

Peaceful Civilian said:


> Soviet is already broken. We are not. Now, we are in better position . Armed nuclear state, Cruise missile system, armed drone tech and right path of democracy, motorways, metro bus system, roads. etc



Those things can't guarantee security which Pakistan has lacked for decades .

A Comunist government in Afghanistan could hold Taliban under control with Iron Fist and avoid creation of Al Qaeda and Saudi's radicalization plans but the opposite happened and you will enjoy the friuts of your victory against Soviets for generations .

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## T-123456

wanglaokan said:


> yes, we support Russia in this event. Our attitude is very clear. We will provide financial support to Russia if they need to annihilate ISIL. Kill those rats.


And who takes you serious,since when do you count in geopolitics?


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## Full Moon

Perfectly legitimate responce by Turkey. Period. 

We have also finally got to see the real faces of some Iranian members here. In addition, this incident will be a good test for the NATO.

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## sherin616

Rasengan said:


> Their is a good reason why many members who have participated in this thread hold no political office in government, because playing Call of Duty does not work in the real world.


A big war is imminent to stablize the current economy


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## Kamil_baku

F117 said:


> Sinking a few Turkish ships in the Black Sea is a good response.


Turkey is the most strong navy in Black sea.. from submarines to surface ships...


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## 帅的一匹

The reason why Turkey bring down Russian fighter is because Putin disclose Erdogan's daughter support ISIL in the G20 meeting recently. Turkey is always supporting terrorism and separation activity in China, what the hell you guys wanna explain?

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## notorious_eagle

Abingdonboy said:


> No doubt, this isn't going to become a nuclear conflict or anything of the kind as some seem to be all too gleefully supporting *but I don't think Putin is going to leave this back-channel diplomacy now. He will extract his pound of flesh one way or another and most likely it will be in a most unconventional manner and perfectly calculated.*
> 
> The options available to Putin are vast



That's Putin for you, i completely agree with your analysis. Russia being a Great Power has vast options at her disposal. Turkey messed up here IMO, and once the Analysis starts coming in, it appears Turkey's claims will start falling apart. 

The Turkish claims simply don't add up. Lets say the SU24 was flying at a speed of 800 km/h, that means it had t fly over roughly 70 km over the Turkish Airspace to get Five Minutes of Warning. 2 km simply does not add up according to the Basic Laws of Math.

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## cirr

It is now abundantly clear that Turkey is in bed with the ISIS。

Turkey and the ISIS are BEST friends。

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## Abingdonboy

Whazzup said:


> They just gonna say Russian plane crossed their border how Putin gonna use this situation ? Turkey will be seen as a country which has balls to shoot down a Russian plane , and no one buys ISIS supporting crap.
> R.I.P to the dead pilot.


The Turks can say what they want but Putin isn't going to offcially declare that the plane was within Syrian territory without some solid evidence to prove it. I'm sure there is ample radar coverage of this area (from both the ground and AWACS) not to mention a great deal of other technical analysis that one can conduct. Russia won't simply capitulate to Turkey's assertations.

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## 帅的一匹

Kamil_baku said:


> Turkey is the most strong navy in Black sea.. from submarines to surface ships...


Turkey is far from called strong, you don't have nuke, you don't even have a proper Sam system.

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## -SINAN-

Ceylal said:


> Russians said otherwise...


Yeah, also at first they said that their aircraft has been shot from the ground.

Russia Confirms Its Jet Shot Down Near Turkish Border - ABC News

We showd radar signutures and they showed nothing...just words. And i know they are not gonna show anything.

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## Kamil_baku

pher said:


> Don't forget China, it will definately back up russian and iran.


Chine is better defend it artificial islands... What they could do when US navy ships came 12 mile close? or its air force planes? dream kid dream...

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## Tsilihin

Peaceful Civilian said:


> We shot down their jets too in afganistan. We were allies of U.S, western coalition. Again Russia can't do anything against turkey, not only turkey is a Nato member but also enjoys support of U.S.A & others.
> Russia can only blame themselves for taking turkey as light country & not listening warning of turkey after they violated airspace many times.



Correct,i agree with your post, and now one thing what Russians can done is to strike with FOAB bombs some area near border where oil smuggling flourishes.
That could be fun for terrorists and good company but to not disturb a relationship with NATO


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## Gibbs

Turkish officials say its foreign ministry has summoned US, Russian, French, Chinese and British envoys to brief them on the downing of the Russian jet, according to Reuters. - BBC

Damage control

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## T-123456

Kamil_baku said:


> You think only Russia got those missiles? Turkey has its own SOM cruise missiles, and can turn Russian airport in Syria to the hell!!
> You got good imagination kid. i wonder what you smoke there...


Bro,you shouldnt take these fanboys to serious.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

T-123456 said:


> Russia was warned multiple times not to cross into Turkish airspace,the rules of engagement had changed,Russia knew this and this incident was a consequence of that so,nothing but blah blah will happen.
> Putin can threaten all he wants.



Reminds me of Afghan Jihad days... Soviet bombers would fly aggressively near our borders.. Sometimes entering our territory ... And scram before PAF showed up..(they didn't have much radars covering North back than)... Than the "el presidente" announced the beguninf of hunting season... Several soviet jets,gunships were shit down by newly inducted F-16s... Some Soviets pilots defected to Pak (some killed their co pilots during flight).

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## Abingdonboy

notorious_eagle said:


> That's Putin for you, i completely agree with your analysis. Russia being a Great Power has vast options at her disposal. Turkey messed up here IMO, and once the Analysis starts coming in, it appears Turkey's claims will start falling apart.
> 
> The Turkish claims simply don't add up. Lets say the SU24 was flying at a speed of 800 km/h, that means it had t fly over roughly 70 km over the Turkish Airspace to get Five Minutes of Warning. 2 km simply does not add up according to the Basic Laws of Math.


Well said and I suspect things will only get worse fro the Turkish side as time goes by. I think the key is at what level the authority to shoot down the Russian plane came- if it was from the President himself then the Turks are really in a bad spot. If it came from a local area commander (I can't beleive this would be the case) perhaps the Turks can wriggle their way out of this with just a few scratches to show for it.


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## jammersat

RIP to the russian jet , Turk - e - Khar , you well deserve your title


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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> It is now abundantly clear that Turkey is in bed with the ISIS。
> 
> Turkey and the ISIS are BEST friends。


And Uygher terrorists

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## A1Kaid

Question is was the Russian jet shot down in Syrian or Turkish airspace? Hopefully, that information will be 100% confirmed soon.


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## Dash

Abingdonboy said:


> Source?



https://www.rt.com/news/323237-video-de ... ian-pilot/


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## BordoEnes

Rukarl said:


> You have Ataturk as your avatar (someone i like) yet you defend the actions of a radical islamist that is bringing your country to the brink of war. Be a sane patriot not a crazy one.



This is about Turkish sovereignty, not its goverment. Regardless how bad ones goverment is, you have NO right to violate our airspace. They still went ahead and did even after they did it before and Turkey clearly stated their rules of engagement will be changed from that point forward. The Russians chose to poke the wolf, and now the wolf bit their ballz off. Let them come. I couldnt give two shits about Erdogan or AKP.

If Russia thinks we are Ukraine, which will just stand by as they gain influence and power then you are surely mistaken. This is about Turkey taking a firm stands against Russian aggresian and their meddling with ours and middle-eastern affairs. This was long overdue.

If the Russian jet didnt enter Turkish airspace, i am willing to apologize and recognize the mistake.

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## zebra7

A Russian warplane has gone down near the Turkish-Syrian border after an apparent attack. Turkish and Russian sources have given conflicting reports about the incident, which has the potential to escalate the tension between Russia and NATO member Turkey.







24 November 2015

*13:29 GMT*
The Russian Su-24 was downed while returning to the Khmeimim airbase, the Russian Ministry of Defense reported.

_“A Russian Su-24 was downed by a Turkish F-16 fighter over the territory of the Syrian Arab Republic while returning to the Khmeimim airbase. Objective monitoring data showed that there was no violation of Syrian airspace,”_ the statement from the ministry said.


*13:00 GMT*
Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu says Turkey has a right to respond to violations of its airspace.


*12:53 GMT*
Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane and acted as accomplices of the terrorists, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.

The plane was hit by a Turkish warplane as it was travelling 1 km away from the Turkish border, Putin said. The plane posed no threat to Turkish national security, he stressed.

Putin said the plane was targeting terrorist targets in the Latakia province of Syria, many of whom came from Russia.

Russia noticed of the flow of oil from Syrian territory under the control of terrorists to Turkey, Putin said.

Apparently, IS now not only receives revenue from the smuggling of oil, but also has the protection of a nation’s military, Putin said. This may explain why the terrorist group is so bold in taking acts of terrorism across the world, he added.

The incident will have grave consequences for Russia’s relations with Turkey, Putin warned.

The fact that Turkey did not try to contact Russia in the wake of the incident and rushed to call a NATO meeting instead is worrisome, Putin said. It appears that Turkey want NATO to serve the interests of IS, he added.

Putin said Russia respects the regional interests of other nations, but warned the atrocity committed by Turkey would not go without an answer.

Putin was speaking at a meeting with King of Jordan Abdullah II in Sochi, who expressed his condolences to the Russian leader over the loss of a Russian pilot in Tuesday’s incident, as well as the deaths of Russians in the Islamic State bombing of a passenger plane in Egypt.

The two leaders discussed the anti-terrorist effort in Syria and Iraq and the diplomatic effort to find a political solution to the Syrian conflict.


*12:35 GMT*
Several protesters have showed up in front of the Turkish Embassy in Moscow to protest the downing of the Russian bomber. “Turkey, are you for or against ISIS?” one of the banners said in Russian

*12:28 GMT*
Czech President Miloš Zeman has criticized Turkey for downing the Russian warplane.

_“Sometimes one may suspect that Turkey has informal contacts with Islamic State [IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL]. Considering that the Russian Air Forces are fighting IS, the attack appears to be too radical a measure,”_ he said, as cited by Itar-Tass.


*12:21 GMT*
A video published by Turkish media reportedly shows two Russian helicopters, a Mi-8 transport and a Mi-24 gunship, patrolling the area around the crash site of the Russian Su-24 downed by Turkey.
*12:02 GMT*
The downing of the Russian jet by Turkey is a very serious incident, the UK Foreign Office said, adding that it was seeking further details.

_"Clearly this is a very serious incident, but it would be unwise to comment further until we have more certainty on the facts,"_ the ministry said.


*11:57 GMT*
Turkey has summoned the Russian Ambassador in Ankara following the warplane downing incident, Bloomberg reported.


*11:57 GMT*
The rebel group that released an alleged video of one of the Russian warplane pilots has told AP he was shot at by the group while in the air and was dead when he landed.


*11:48 GMT*
The Kremlin recommended not jumping to conclusions after the downing of a Russian warplane in Syria, saying it was too early to say how the incident could affect Russia’s relations with Turkey.

_“What we should do is be patient. This incident is very serious, but until we see a complete picture, making any statements is impossible and wrong,”_ spokesman for the Kremlin Dmitry Peskov told the media.


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## Gibbs

A1Kaid said:


> Question is was the Russian jet shot down in Syrian or Turkish airspace? Hopefully, that information will be 100% confirmed soon.



The Turks themselves show it was shot down in Syrian territory after alleged incursion in to Turkey.. In all probability for a few minutes

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## T-123456

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Reminds me of Afghan Jihad days... Soviet bombers would fly aggressively near our borders.. Sometimes entering our territory ... And scram before PAF showed up..(they didn't have much radars covering North back than)... Than the "el presidente" announced the beguninf of hunting season... Several soviet jets,gunships were shit down by newly inducted F-16s... Some Soviets pilots defected to Pak (some killed their co pilots during flight).


What do you think will happen,be realistic?

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## madmusti

It is in the Turkish Border, actually we hear Turkish from turkish Journalists and not from stupid Arabs "Allahu Akbar" i hate it when they are saying that, using the Religion to legitimate their actions.


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## Dragon4

After reading Putin's statements, he says "Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey.", he _*doesn't*_ _*admit*_ that their jets violated Turkish air. Somehow i feel Putin acting too smart here, trying to paint every country in black and white.Russia has been warned before too. Let us wait for NATO's meeting.

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## Abingdonboy

Full Moon said:


> Perfectly legitimate responce by Turkey. Period.
> 
> We have also finally got to see the real faces of some Iranian members here. In addition, this incident will be a good test for the NATO.


How can you catergorically state that Turkey's actions were legitamate?

+ I agree about the test for NATO part, it's going to be interesting to see how much distance they can put between themselves and Turkey from now. NATO is not interested in paying for Turkey's sins, Turkey has just ensured it stands isolated.

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## cirr

Turkey will pay for what it did today one way or another。

The country's hideous face has been exposed once and for all。

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## oproh

I shall include in my prayers tonight my turkish brother, they won't have any future now thanks to erdogan's elementary mistake.

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## Dash

T-123456 said:


> Russia was warned multiple times not to cross into Turkish airspace,the rules of engagement had changed,Russia knew this and this incident was a consequence of that so,nothing but blah blah will happen.
> Putin can threaten all he wants.



Just to burst your bubble, you are a no one with out NATO. and thats what you did exactlly right after shooting that jet you consulted NATO, instead of Russia as you downed that plane. Your policies are well known. Save us the trouble.

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## Full Moon

Blackmoon said:


> Russia is Turkey’s 2nd largest trading partner & depends on Moscow for 60% of its natural gas imports and 35% of its oil. Wise decision?



KSA and Qatar can easily be the alternative supplier.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> And Uygher terrorists



Yes，Turkey is behind all sorts of terrorists organizations。

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## haman10

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Yes .. And Israelis are crying out of love for Syrians .. Fukin hypocrisy.


You know we Iranians say that if you want to know someone, take a look at his friends. 

Israelis and saudis are cheering for who ?


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## jammersat

cirr said:


> Yes，Turkey is behind all sorts of terrorists organizations。



The guy who was caught in bangkok bombings too was a pan-turk

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## Dragon4

Chinese should stop trolling on each and every thread with their as usual crybaby rants. Get a life.

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## haman10

Full Moon said:


> KSA and Qatar can easily be the alternative supplier.


How are they going to do that ? Through Iraq ? 
Wise post


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## oproh

Turkey's image is forever tarnished, no one will buy kebab's anymore in fear of being associated with terrorists.

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## zebra7

*Video allegedly shows dead Russian pilot surrounded by armed rebels in Syria (GRAPHIC) *

The video posted online shows armed men around an alleged Russian pilot who seems to be unconscious and immobile. His face is bruised and bloodied. The men seem to be happy and are praising Allah, with some regretting that they hadn’t burned him on the spot.

Video allegedly shows dead Russian pilot surrounded by armed rebels in Syria (GRAPHIC) — RT News


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## T-123456

Abingdonboy said:


> Well said and I suspect things will only get worse fro the Turkish side as time goes by. I think the key is at what level the authority to shoot down the Russian plane came- if it was from the President himself then the Turks are really in a bad spot. If it came from a local area commander (I can't beleive this would be the case) perhaps the Turks can wriggle their way out of this with just a few scratches to show for it.


Do we look like a third world country to you?
*''wriggle their way out of this with just a few scratches to show for it''*,really?

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## Ceylal

Sinan said:


> We showd radar signutures and they showed nothing...just words. And i know they are not gonna show anything.



I hope, that Turkey has a case there...I was watching the news this morning, Turkey's western friend are squirming ...

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## Abingdonboy

Dash said:


> https://www.rt.com/news/323237-video-de ... ian-pilot/


_"According to Reuters, the video was sent by a rebel group operating in the northwestern area of Syria, where groups including the Free Syrian Army are active but Islamic State has no known presence."_

What an utter mess, the West is going to find this fact (if it turns out to be the case the FSA are the members in the video) particuarly hard to swallow. These so-called "moderates" that they have armed are in the buisness of executing bailed-out pilots and Russians at that.

I'm sure Putin will have little problem using this to his advantadge.


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## zebra7

* Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices *
Published time: 24 Nov, 2015 12:58Edited time: 24 Nov, 2015 13:36





Russian President Vladimir Putin © Michael Klimentyev / Sputnik
2.2K67
Turkey backstabbed Russia by downing the Russian warplane and acted as accomplices of the terrorists, Russian President Vladimir Putin said.
“_This incident stands out against the usual fight against terrorism. Our troops are fighting heroically against terrorists, risking their lives. But the loss we suffered today came from a stab in the back delivered by accomplices of the terrorists_,” Putin said.

*Follow LIVE UPDATES on Russian warplane shot down at Syria-Turkey border *

Putin said the plane was hit by a Turkish warplane as it was traveling at an altitude of 6000 meters about a kilometer from the Turkish border. It was hit by an air-to-air missile launched by a Turkish F-16 jet. The crash site is four kilometers from the border. The plane posed no threat to Turkish national security, he stressed.

Putin said the plane was targeting terrorist targets in the Latakia province of Syria, many of whom came from Russia.

Read more


Russian Su-24 fighter jet shot down over Syria - Russian MoD (VIDEO) 
Russia has for a long time been aware of oil going from Syria under the control of terrorists to Turkey, Putin said. The money finances terrorist groups.

“_IS has big money, hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars, from selling oil. In addition they are protected by the military of an entire nation. One can understand why they are acting so boldly and blatantly. Why they kill people in such atrocious ways. Why they commit terrorist acts across the world, including in the heart of Europe_,” the Russian leader said.

The downing of the Russian warplane happened despite Russia signing an agreement with the US to prevent such incidents in Syria, Putin stressed. Turkey claims to be part of the US-led coalition fighting against IS in Syria, he added.

The incident will have grave consequences for Russia’s relations with Turkey, Putin warned.

“_We have always treated Turkey as not only a close neighbor, but also as a friendly nation,_” he said. “_I don’t know who has an interest in what happened today, but we certainly don’t_.”

The fact that Turkey did not try to contact Russia in the wake of the incident and rushed to call a NATO meeting instead is worrisome, Putin said. It appears that Turkey want NATO to serve the interests of IS, he added.

Putin said Russia respects the regional interests of other nations, but warned the atrocity committed by Turkey would not go without an answer.

Putin was speaking at a meeting with King of Jordan Abdullah II in Sochi, who expressed his condolences to the Russian leader over the loss of a Russian pilot in Tuesday’s incident, as well as the deaths of Russians in the Islamic State bombing of a passenger plane in Egypt.

The two leaders discussed the anti-terrorist effort in Syria and Iraq and the diplomatic effort to find a political solution to the Syrian conflict.

Earlier a Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down by Turkish fighter jets near the Turkish-Syrian border. Turkey claimed that the plane violated Turkish airspace and did not respond to warnings. Ankara said it was rightfully acting to defend its sovereignty.

Russia insists that the plane stayed in the Syrian airspace.

One of the two pilots of the downed Russian warplane was reported killed by a rebel group as he was parachuting down on the ground after ejecting from the plane. The fate of the second pilot remains unknown

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## Abingdonboy

T-123456 said:


> Do we look like a third world country to you?
> *''wriggle their way out of this with just a few scratches to show for it''*,really?


I don't know how you came to that conclusion based on what I had said.


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## MertKaan

turkey shoot down russian jet but chinese and iranian azz burning ,Why ?

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## Oublious

sultan erdogan shots a chopper now ahjahahaha,...


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## Ceylal

Full Moon said:


> KSA and Qatar can easily be the alternative supplier.


They will be the first two to defect, if Turkey get manhandled by the Russians.

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## jammersat

it wasn't a stab in the back , it was a kick in the face , like i said there's a reason they call you names

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## Full Moon

haman10 said:


> How are they going to do that ? Through Iraq ?
> Wise post



Super tanker ships. Even gas can be compressed in the form of liquied and be shipped by sea. It is called Liquified Natural Gas (LNG), Mr. Doctor.

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## SpArK

Its not at all an issue of sovereignty. 

Russia are fighting a war for the better good of the world and all of the people knows they are trying to eliminate ISIS from the face of the earth. There is no place for a sovereignty on occasions like it. 

Downing the plane *is an excuse to create a confrontation with NATO and Russia over the issue*.

Its sad that Turkey is up to childish antics.

*You will reap what you saw.*

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## Dash

Abingdonboy said:


> _"According to Reuters, the video was sent by a rebel group operating in the northwestern area of Syria, where groups including the Free Syrian Army are active but Islamic State has no known presence."_
> 
> What an utter mess, the West is going to find this fact (if it turns out to be the case the FSA are the members in the video) particuarly hard to swallow. These so-called "moderates" that they have armed are in the buisness of executing bailed-out pilots and Russians at that.
> 
> I'm sure Putin will have little problem using this to his advantadge.



Even I wondered that, its a real drama happening out there. But no matter what one thing we are clear. West created ISIS. no denying that fact and world will slowly start supporting Russia.

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## T-123456

Dash said:


> Just to burst your bubble, you are a no one with out NATO. and thats what you did exactlly right after shooting that jet you consulted NATO, instead of Russia as you downed that plane. Your policies are well known. Save us the trouble.


Yes you are right,we were nothing without NATO,everytime we went to war,NATO saved our azz.
Could you remined me when again,was it in Cyprus,Northern Iraq?
Maybe you dont know this but everytime a country from NATO is in such a situation,it concults other NATO members,try using your brain sometimes.

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## notorious_eagle

Abingdonboy said:


> Well said and I suspect things will only get worse fro the Turkish side as time goes by. I think the key is at what level the authority to shoot down the Russian plane came- if it was from the President himself then the Turks are really in a bad spot. If it came from a local area commander (I can't beleive this would be the case) perhaps the Turks can wriggle their way out of this with just a few scratches to show for it.



True, but i doubt it if a Local Area Commander can authorize an engagement with a Russian Plane. Even the most Incompetent Officer would know that this would have International Repercussions. Turkey is already in damage control, they have already summoned the envoys of several major States to explain their position. That is proof enough that they are panicking. 

Just saw the pictures of the Deal Pilots. It looks like they took some severe beating as their faces look so bruised up. This is not good news for Turkey, i believe things would reduced to normality if the Pilots would have survived but when these pictures of the dead pilots start hitting major news stations, Turkey will loose the sympathy card. 

Turkey warned Russia not to bomb these Ethnic Turkmen last week when they were taking some severe beating from the Russian Air Force, this was only a show of strength from the Turkish Side. But now expect the Spetsnaz to lead an operation and take this area from these Ethnic Turkemen with massive brutality. Reports are already coming in, Massive Bombardments have started in the Area and you can be damn sure this time SU30's are patrolling the skies Armed to the Teeth with A2A Missiles.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

T-123456 said:


> What do you think will happen,be realistic?



Nothing except more political saber rattling ...

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## -SINAN-

Ceylal said:


> I hope, that Turkey has a case there...I was watching the news this morning, Turkey's western friend are squirming ...


They can "squirm" or can do whatever they want. We protected our sovereignty against Russian aggressors and we will do again.

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## jammersat

Oublious said:


> next poorsian fighters....



our tomcats can radar lock on you in your own airspace


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## cirr

BordoEnes said:


> This is about Turkish sovereignty, not its goverment. Regardless how bad ones goverment is, you have NO right to violate our airspace. They still went ahead and did even after they did it before and Turkey clearly stated their rules of engagement will be changed from that point forward. The Russians chose to poke the wolf, and now the wolf bit their ballz off. Let them come. I couldnt give two shits about Erdogan or AKP.
> 
> If Russia thinks we are Ukraine, which will just stand by as they gain influence and power then you are surely mistaken. This is about Turkey taking a firm stands against Russian aggresian and their meddling with ours and middle-eastern affairs. This was long overdue.
> 
> If the Russian jet didnt enter Turkish airspace, i am willing to apologize and recognize the mistake.



If the Russian bomber didn't violate Turkish airspace，you should offer one of your planes to be shotdown by the Russians。

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## Abingdonboy

notorious_eagle said:


> True, but i doubt it if a Local Area Commander can authorize an engagement with a Russian Plane. Even the most Incompetent Officer would know that this would have International Repercussions. Turkey is already in damage control, they have already summoned the envoys of several major States to explain their position. That is proof enough that they are panicking.


These are my thoughts also, I was just talking hypothtically- potentially the Turks could squirm their way out of it IF it had been the actions of a lone area commander but that seems very, very unlikely.

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## oproh

How about let's just go back at the Syrian Civil War thread and celebrate the Russian and Syrian gain. I mean the death of hundreds of isis and other terrorists every day sounds so good to my ears.


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## Dash

T-123456 said:


> Yes you are right,we were nothing without NATO,everytime we went to war,NATO saved our azz.
> Could you remined me when again,was it in Cyprus,Northern Iraq?
> Maybe you dont know this but everytime a country from NATO is in such a situation,it concults other NATO members,try using your brain instead sometimes.



Everyone knows your wars. Try not to fool here  Trust me if this situation doesnt escalate (and I pray it doesnt get out of propertion) its only because of NATO. Its Russia and not some puny Cyprus and Iraq.

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## $@rJen

The best thing what Russia can do now is bring S-300, Su-30,35 fighters to escort bombers and Bomb the sh!t out of ISIS's Refineries


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## flamer84

Romanian satire magazin about the incident:

"Putin claims that Turkish airspace entered the plane,not the other way around"

"Pravda magazine describes the incident as a Turkish missile destroyed by the Russian bomber"

"The Russian plane was allready spotted in a scrapyard brought there by some Romanians who look very much like Syrians (reference to gypsies collecting scrap)"

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## slng

let the game begin


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## KAL-EL

oproh said:


> Turkey's image is forever tarnished, no one will buy kebab's anymore in fear of being associated with terrorists.



and no one will buy Turkish rugs anymore. Oh the horror..

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## Ceylal

cirr said:


> If the Russian bomber didn't violate Turkish airspace，you should offer one of your planes to be shotdown by the Russians。


 the Asian form of eye for eye and tooth for tooth..

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## Abingdonboy

Sinan said:


> They can "squirm" or can do whatever they want. We protected our sovereignty against Russian aggressors and we will do again.


Well all prima facie evidence points to the Russian plane being downed outside of Turkish airspace, these nationlistic chants of "we protected our sovereignty" aren't going to go very far when it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Turkey acted entirely outside of the accepted norms.

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## Dash

sarjenprabhu said:


> The best thing what Russia can do now is bring S-300, Su-30,35 fighters to escort bombers and Bomb the sh!t out of ISIS's Refineries



They have been doing that since a month. They bombed each and every crude oil convoy that were getting smuggled out of Syria by Daesh. Why do you thing suddent burning in the rears of some?

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## -SINAN-

cirr said:


> If the Russian bomber didn't violate Turkish airspace，you should offer one of your planes to be shotdown by the Russians。


If that's the case. Turkey would formally apologize, and pay for the compensation. However i don't think that's the case here.

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## Gibbs

Abingdonboy said:


> These are my thoughts also, I was just talking hypothtically- potentially the Turks could squirm their way out of it IF it had been the actions of a lone area commander but that seems very, very unlikely.



Looks like Turkish backed rebels executed the pilots in cold blood.. Since Turks themselves admit there is no 
ISIS in that area.. That amounts to a war crime

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## Dash

Abingdonboy said:


> Well all prima facie evidence points to the Russian plane being downed outside of Turkish airspace, these nationlistic chants of "we protected our sovereignty" aren't going to go very far when it is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that Turkey acted entirely outside of the accepted norms.



What amazes me is teh sheer stupidity. The chinese didnt shoot the US plane but forced it to land. Come on you are not at war with Russia?

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## Mrc

Way to go turkey....

Russia again messing with wrong people here

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## Rukarl

Dash said:


> They have been doing that since a month. They bombed each and every crude oil convoy that were getting smuggled out of Syria by Daesh. Why do you thing suddent burning in the rears of some?


Thank god there are people who can see the reality.

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## Barmaley

Turkey just signed a death sentence for themselves. Putin officially said that Turkey is an ISIS member.

Probably, soon we'll bomb them too . Also, support creation of Kurdistan inside Turkish territory.

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## -SINAN-

Abingdonboy said:


> Well all prima facie evidence points to the Russian plane being downed outside of Turkish airspace


Can i see your evidence, please ?


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## madmusti

How could you guys are can come with so negative "Arguments" against Turkey in a Pakistani Forum ? you should not forget our relationships with our "Brothers" from Pakistan, but i hope they will Deal with all of you

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## Aero

like_a_boss said:


> #*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey
> View attachment 274394
> *



Are you sure about the pic because that is a Su-30 not a Su-24.


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## -SINAN-

Barmaley said:


> Turkey just signed a death sentence for themselves. Putin officially said that Turkey is an ISIS member.
> 
> Probably, we'll bomb them too soon. Also, support creation of Kurdistan inside Turkish territory.



Or send more Russian prostitutes to break apart Turkish families.

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## Mrc

Its game set match turkey...

What can russians do here??


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## Gibbs

Sinan said:


> Can i see your evidence, please ?



The pics of the flight path that you yourself posted.. Provided by your government

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## Abingdonboy

Sinan said:


> If that's the case. Turkey would formally apologize, and pay for the compensation. However i don't think that's the case here.


And when has that ever happend, can you point to such a precedent having been established? Shooting down another nation's warplane is not a trivial matter, you can't just "say sorry" and expect the repurcussions to be limited. This would have, most likley, be authorised by the highest levels of the Turkish government which in itself can amount to an act of war (not that I expect that to be articulated by the Russians).


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## zebra7

sarjenprabhu said:


> The best thing what Russia can do now is bring S-300, Su-30,35 fighters to escort bombers and Bomb the sh!t out of ISIS's Refineries


lolz


----------



## T-123456

Dash said:


> Everyone knows your wars. Try not to fool here  Trust me if this situation doesnt escalate (and I pray it doesnt get out of propertion) its only because of NATO. Its Russia and not some puny Cyprus and Iraq.


Remind me again,which superduper country was it in Afghanistan which sent the Russian back home?
Think again,even without NATO,do you think Putin would risk a war with Turkiye?
Does Turkiye look like Ukraine or Georgia?
Lets say they would defeat us,but what would have been left from the the Russian Armed Forces when engaged in a war against Turkiye?
Would Putin be that stupid to risk being vulnerable aftwards,think about it?
Would he risk losing Turkiye as an economic partner?

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## Gibbs

Turkmen rebels claim they killed two Russian pilots after they auto-ejected: DHA reports

Turkey shoots down Russian jet for airspace violation near Syrian border - MIDEASTpic.twitter.com/JilrTvOwNB

— Hurriyet Daily News (@HDNER) November 24, 2015

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## Kamil_baku

Ceylal said:


> We saw the capabilities of the Turkish army against Israel when she attacked the flotilla and killed 18 of your citizens. But the likelyhood of having your sultan with his balls and d--k stuffed in his mouth by Putin is a reality, especially if the SU24 was in Syrian airspace.!


Israel apologized for that and accepted to pay money who suffered there... 
No matter we downed it in Syria or Turkish airspace.. We got the balls to do it. Can Russia do anything against us? This is not Georgia, Ukrain or rebels, Welcome to Turkey!

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## Abingdonboy

Sinan said:


> Can i see your evidence, please ?


@notorious_eagle has made an exceeletn analysis:


notorious_eagle said:


> The Turkish claims simply don't add up. Lets say the SU24 was flying at a speed of 800 km/h, that means it had t fly over roughly 70 km over the Turkish Airspace to get Five Minutes of Warning. 2 km simply does not add up according to the Basic Laws of Math.




Addtionally, the fact that the pilots are said to have landed inside Syrian territory and been captured/executed by rebels on the ground further indicates this. The kind of parachutes that ejection seats use will not provide for much "drift", where you bail out you will often land.

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## A1Kaid

Dash said:


> What amazes me is teh sheer stupidity. The chinese didnt shoot the US plane but forced it to land. Come on you are not at war with Russia?



According to Turkish Airforce, the Russian jet never responded to the warnings or gave any reply. How can you force a jet to land if it isn't cooperating or ignoring commands? You shoot it down.

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## SpArK

Gibbs said:


> Turkmen rebels claim they killed two Russian pilots after they auto-ejected: DHA reports
> 
> Turkey shoots down Russian jet for airspace violation near Syrian border - MIDEASTpic.twitter.com/JilrTvOwNB
> 
> — Hurriyet Daily News (@HDNER) November 24, 2015




Now it will be showering meteors from sky all over them..and Turkey wont be doing a jack about it.

They should have kept the pilots alive as a guarantee and a bargaining chip.

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## zebra7

Kamil_baku said:


> Israel apologized for that and accepted to pay money who suffered there...
> No matter we downed it in Syria or Turkish airspace.. We got the balls to do it. Can Russia do anything against us? This is not Georgia, Ukrain or rebels, Welcome to Turkey!



Russia can do a lot, don't live in some illusion. After all she is still a power house, when its comes to Military.

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## Dash

madmusti said:


> How could you guys are can come with so negative "Arguments" against Turkey in a Pakistani Forum ? you should not forget our relationships with our "Brothers" from Pakistan, but i hope they will Deal with all of you



Lol, even their Chinese brother are cursing Turkey and cheerleading Russians  Take that..along with Indians who are both normally against Chinese and Pakistanis are supporting Russia here. You dont stand a chance.


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## T-123456

KAL-EL said:


> and no one will buy Turkish rugs anymore. Oh the horror..


Damnit,that was our main income,our economy is lost,we will need help from the UN.

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## SpArK

zebra7 said:


> Russia can do a lot, don't live in some illusion. After all she is still a power house, when its comes to Military.




What it lacks maybe a sound economy or money.

They have the right choice of friends who has some money.


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## Abingdonboy

Dash said:


> What amazes me is teh sheer stupidity. The chinese didnt shoot the US plane but forced it to land. Come on you are not at war with Russia?


Precisely, this is either simply mind-boggling incompetance of the TuAF's C&C mechanisms or an over-reach by a madman.


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## Oublious

the first time it was funny, but not this time..

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## Gibbs

SpArK said:


> Now it will be showering meteors from sky all over them..and Turkey wont be doing a jack about it.
> 
> They should have kept the pilots alive as a guarantee and a bargaining chip.



Add to that.. Kurds will be provided a no fly zone.. Like i said Erdogan over estimated and finger fucked himself

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## madmusti

Atleast Putin has said on their own "*It was 1km near to Turkish Border *"

I mean 1 KM is nothing with a Car ! How much do you guys has needed an SU-24 Interceptor for reaching the next "1 KM"

So stop your poor "Arguments" against Turkey and their policy !

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## Hurshid Celebi

Turkey can beat Russian Forces on all fields. Except nuclear. Turkey is not Ukraine or Georgia. Putin must know, He was warned .

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## Aero

Ice Cube said:


> all future Russian bombing sorties should have fighter escort from now on.


Some Su-30 escort will very good.


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## BordoEnes

cirr said:


> If the Russian bomber didn't violate Turkish airspace，you should offer one of your planes to be shotdown by the Russians。



Its amusing to see how uneducated people talk about Turkey supporting ISIS because we shot down Russian fighter jet yet they were captured and killed above Turkmen militia territory. Meaning they are using ISIS as a freaking excuse to bomb moderate and other faction rebels. Turkey warned Russia many times.

What doesnt add up above everything else is why the Russian jet was there in the first place. What was it doing at the Turkish border and why did it violate Turkish airspace? Russia is the aggresor here, thats obvious.

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## SpArK

Gibbs said:


> Add to that.. Kurds will be provided a no fly zone.. Like i said Erdogan over estimated and finger fucked himself



NATO will be having different opinion over this especially with France and Russia going all guns blazing and all together.


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## zebra7

Guys one Noob question to all.

ISIS is selling the Petroleum, and may I know to whom ?

To Iraq, 
to Iran.
to Israel,
to Saudi
or export it through oil tankers


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## Gibbs

Oublious said:


> the first time it was funny, but not this time..



Traits of a megalomaniac.. Pity what he has turned Turkey into

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## Hurshid Celebi

Rukarl said:


> lmao



Hey, Indian false flagger. If you risk a big mouth Pakistan will rost you and serve with Chilli

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## A1Kaid

Gibbs said:


> Traits of a megalomaniac.. Pity what he has turned Turkey into



He's turned it into an economic power with a trillion dollar GDP.

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## -SINAN-

Two more aircrafts downed...details not known at the moment.
İki cisim daha düştü iddiası Videosu

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## Gibbs

SpArK said:


> NATO will be having different opinion over this especially with France and Russia going all guns blazing and all together.



Cant really depend on the US on a solid stance.. Their interests lie elsewhere in the Gulf

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## BordoEnes

zebra7 said:


> Guys one Noob question to all.
> 
> ISIS is selling the Petroleum, and may I know to whom ?
> 
> To Iraq,
> to Iran.
> to Israel,
> to Saudi
> or export it through oil tankers



They are selling it to smugglers from neighbouring countries. So pretty much any country bordering Syria.

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## Dash

A1Kaid said:


> According to Turkish Airforce, the Russian jet never responded to the warnings or gave any reply. How can you force a jet to land if it isn't cooperating or ignoring commands? You shoot it down.



Till data there has been no accidental bombing, inside Turkey land. Russian planes have clear instructions not to cross teh border. Russian military is not stupid enough to disobey their command and even more stupid that they have been getting warned (without any warning shots ofcourse as thats the first one to start with) to linger for 5 mins inside Turkey border. What a story!


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## notorious_eagle

SpArK said:


> What it lacks maybe a sound economy or money.
> 
> They have the right choice of friends who has some money.



Not economic harm, but a flush of weapons for the PKK can create a huge headache for Turkey. The logistics are not going to be a problem as the Russians are already based in Syria.

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## zebra7

BordoEnes said:


> Its amusing to see how uneducated people talk about Turkey supporting ISIS because we shot down Russian fighter jet yet they were captured and killed above Turkmen militia territory. Meaning they are using ISIS as a freaking excuse to bomb moderate and other faction rebels.



Russian believe that ISIS is selling the Oil to Turkey ? Thus helping ISIS
Does Turkey love Kurdish people ?



BordoEnes said:


> What doesnt add up above everything else is why the Russian jet was there in the first place. What was it doing at the Turkish border and why did it violate Turkish airspace? Russia is the aggresor here, thats obvious.



The fighter planes crashes in the Syria, that makes it sound clear, that it was flying in Syria. Shooting down the plane when there is no war situation and that too across border is the problem.


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## Abingdonboy

A1Kaid said:


> According to Turkish Airforce, the Russian jet never responded to the warnings or gave any reply. How can you force a jet to land if it isn't cooperating or ignoring commands? You shoot it down.


Actually this is far too simplistic. In most modern airforces (given Turkey is a member of NATO this should apply to them also) the escalation formula is quite clear cut. There are a number of steps you take before engaging an intruding aircraft which includes voice/radio challenges but also visual warnings i.e pulling alongside, rotating your wings and firing chaff and flares in their path. Shooting dowsn is litterally the last option and I would be amazed if the TuAF had followed the above steps prior to shooting down the Russian plane. It seems they engaged some distance away.

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## egodoc222

Tipu7 said:


> Let's hope we will see F16 vs Su30 action too.........


Kid!! If you are bored...go play video games!!

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## SpArK

Sinan said:


> Two more aircrafts downed...details not known at the moment.
> İki cisim daha düştü iddiası Videosu




Could be false news.

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## -SINAN-

Gibbs said:


> The pics of the flight path that you yourself posted.. Provided by your government


Then i advice you too buy a new pair of glasses.

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## zebra7

BordoEnes said:


> They are selling it to smugglers from neighbouring countries. So pretty much any country bordering Syria.


And you want me to believe that it could be hidden in plastic pouches and smuggled across border.


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## Gibbs

SpArK said:


> Could be false news.



False news.. A rescue helicopter had come under attack but was returned to safety

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## Indos

I dont think Russia will exaggerate the situation because of this one guy or Mullah in Iran.......Putin is smart.

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## T-123456

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Hey, Indian false flagger. If you risk a big mouth Pakistan will rost you and serve with Chilli


Dont do that.

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## Gibbs

Sinan said:


> Then i advice you too buy a new pair of glasses.



I dont wear glasses.. Check your own post

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## A1Kaid

Dash said:


> Till data there has been no accidental bombing, inside Turkey land. Russian planes have clear instructions not to cross teh border. Russian military is not stupid enough to disobey their command and even more stupid that they have been getting warned (without any warning shots ofcourse as thats the first one to start with) to linger for 5 mins inside Turkey border. What a story!



Are you a spokesperson for the Russian Air Force? You seem to know exactly what the Russian pilots were doing.


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## Dash

My suggestion is to sell your investments in Turkish Infrastructure.


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## pher

Kamil_baku said:


> Chine is better defend it artificial islands... What they could do when US navy ships came 12 mile close? or its air force planes? dream kid dream...


we drove them like a mad dog in the sea, and it must be a heartbreaking for you people to watch that video even though US threat you like a dirt.

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## Dash

A1Kaid said:


> Are you a spokesperson for the Russian Air Force? You seem to know exactly what the Russian pilots were doing.



If you have a good observing power you can go by disciplines and rules of engagement, you dont need to be a spokesperson for that. Its just that you dont need to keep a bias.


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## KAL-EL

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Hey, Indian false flagger. If you risk a big mouth Pakistan will rost you and serve with Chilli



That sounds like quite a hearty feast


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## Abingdonboy

madmusti said:


> Atleast Putin has said on their own "*It was 1km near to Turkish Border *"
> 
> I mean 1 KM is nothing with a Car ! How much do you guys has needed an SU-24 Interceptor for reaching the next "1 KM"
> 
> So stop your poor "Arguments" against Turkey and their policy !


This still doesn't equate with the Turkish line- that you hailed the Russian plane 10 or so times prior to engaging them?

+ 1km near the Turkish border is still not Turkish airspace, you stll have no authority to shoot them down. Even if it was 1km or 10km inside your territory, why shoot them down at all? Why not pursue this through diplomatic channels? Escalating this to force was a massive over-step by the Turkish side.

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## Gibbs

Reuters now also reporting that Turkmen rebels claim to have opened fire on the pilots as they descended with parachutes. The deputy commander of a Turkmen Brigade in Syria said both were shot dead. - Sky

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## KAL-EL

egodoc222 said:


> Kid!! If you are bored...go play video games!!



LOL This thread has turned into a downward spiral.

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## madmusti

We know the Time when Turkey forces to land Russian Cargo Planes but against Armed Units anyone should do the Same.

In the last Weeks Russian Planes already violented Turkish Airspace and Turkey warned even Russia, they don´t listen so they should "Feel" ! 

Im not happy what has been happened but this is the Reality which has happened in the last Weeks.


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## SpArK

Indos said:


> I dont think Russia will exaggerate the situation because of this one guy or Mullah in Iran.......Putin is smart.




Of course Russia wont exaggerate it for the people mentioned above.

Its *Russian plane and Russian pilots* who are down.. not Iranian or Syrian but his own...

Putin is smart ...

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## Gibbs

> A lack of common strategy and cooperation between the major international players in the Syrian conflict are being blamed for the downing of the jet.
> 
> Czech Foreign Minister Lubomir Zaoralek said: "Because there's not a clear agreement of the international community on a common strategy and because the enemy is not clearly defined, everyone fights a war in their own interest and we can end up fighting each other."
> 
> Czech Prime Minister Bohuslav Sobotka said the incident was "an unpleasant surprise which shows there's still no good coordination among the players in the region." - Sky



Even the Europeans who are harsh anti Russians seem to be taking a more diplomatic stance, They surely know Erdogan just fucked this one up in grand style

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## -SINAN-

BuddhaPalm said:


> It looks like a massive attack against Turkish military targets by Russian strategic bombers!


We don't have any military* inside Syria.* !!

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## egodoc222

KAL-EL said:


> LOL This thread has turned into a downward spiral.


People here want to see 3rd world war


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## BordoEnes

Abingdonboy said:


> This still doesn't equate with the Turkish line- that you hailed the Russian plane 10 or so times prior to engaging them?
> 
> + 1km near the Turkish border is still not Turkish airspace, you stll have no authority to shoot them down. Even if it was 1km or 10km inside your territory, why shoot them down at all? Why not pursue this through diplomatic channels? Escalating this to force was a massive over-step by the Turkish side.



The Turkish airforce no doubt issued to warning before the Russian jet entered its airspace as its done according to the rules of engagement. Sorry but even if they didnt enter our airspace, the fact that they retained the flight path to Turkish airspace and only were "1km away"(which is an unrealistic joke claim by Putin) from the Turkish border shows they intented power projections, that shitt aint gonna fly with us. They did this twice in the past and we clearly stated that there wont be a next time when they dared such a thing again. Its their own fault so they should stop crying like children about it now. Let them Ruskies know, dont fvk with us.

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## 帅的一匹

jammersat said:


> The guy who was caught in bangkok bombings too was a pan-turk





SpArK said:


> Its not at all an issue of sovereignty.
> 
> Russia are fighting a war for the better good of the world and all of the people knows they are trying to eliminate ISIS from the face of the earth. There is no place for a sovereignty on occasions like it.
> 
> Downing the plane *is an excuse to create a confrontation with NATO and Russia over the issue*.
> 
> Its sad that Turkey is up to childish antics.
> 
> *You will reap what you saw.*


i can't agree more with you on that.

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## madmusti

Abingdonboy said:


> This still doesn't equate with the Turkish line- that you hailed the Russian plane 10 or so times prior to engaging them?
> 
> + 1km near the Turkish border is still not Turkish airspace, you stll have no authority to shoot them down. Even if it was 1km or 10km inside your territory, why shoot them down at all? Why not pursue this through diplomatic channels? Escalating this to force was a massive over-step by the Turkish side.



I only say that "Vladimir Putin" has said this officially, this is more confirming that the "Russian SU-24AB" was in Turkey then in Syria.


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## alaungphaya

Erdogan's a reckless bastard that's trying to send the world into war. NATO should kick Turkey out before it escalates. This guy is unbelievable.

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## Kamil_baku

wanglaokan said:


> They will provide more weapon to Kurds. For Turkey, Kurds seem to be more threat than ISIL.


Turkey can also start to arm Ukranian forces... Russia know that they shouldnt play with Turkey!!!

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## Green Angel

.......

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## Indos

SpArK said:


> Of course Russia wont exaggerate it for the people mentioned above.
> 
> Its *Russian plane and Russian pilots* who are down.. not Iranian or Syrian but his own...
> 
> Putin is smart ...



Yup, true, but if you consider the region where the plane was flying and operating, so you will know which backyard it is......

Russia has been so overreach


----------



## madmusti



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## A1Kaid

Gibbs said:


> And from a secular progressive Muslim nation in to another veritable Islamic shit hole.. Fortunately Turkish people are still strong in their secular convictions to prolong it
> 
> *Turkey has always been a economic power house give it's geo strategic position.. Erdogan haven't done any miracles*



No it hasn't, in 2003 when Erdogan first became PM he inherited a $303 billion GDP by the time his PMship ended Turkey has become a trillion dollar economy. The economy has grown by $700 billion under his tenure, no Turkish leader in modern history has generated that much economic growth.



> *And from a secular progressive Muslim nation in to another veritable Islamic shit hole*.. Fortunately Turkish people are still strong in their secular convictions to prolong it



You better watch your mouth, you come from a little s-hole island yourself. How has he turned Turkey into that? Turkey remains a secular country, with rule of secular law, what he has done is lifted strict restrictions on religions.

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## SpArK

Indos said:


> Yup, true, but if you consider the region where the plane was flying and operating, so you will know which backyard it is......
> 
> Russia has been so overreach




So what was the relevance of Iranian or syrian...

if you hit russians they hit back no matter wherever it is.

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## egodoc222

BordoEnes said:


> The Turkish airforce no doubt issued to warning before the Russian jet entered its airspace as its done according to the rules of engagement. Sorry but even if they didnt enter our airspace, the fact that they retained the flight path to Turkish airspace and only were "1km away"(which is an unrealistic joke claim by Putin) from the Turkish border shows they intented power projections, that shitt aint gonna fly with us. They did this twice in the past and we clearly stated that there wont be a next time when they dared such a thing again. Its their own fault so they should stop crying like children about it now. Let them Ruskies know, dont fvk with us.


You Turks fell into the trap!!! Now you gave Russians a reason and justification for massive military deployment!!
No wonder your pm is called a dumbo!!
Now EU will distance itself from you!!

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## zebra7

BordoEnes said:


> The Turkish airforce no doubt issued to warning before the Russian jet entered its airspace as its done according to the rules of engagement. Sorry but even if they didnt enter our airspace, the fact that they retained the flight path to Turkish airspace and only were "1km away"(which is an unrealistic joke claim by Putin) from the Turkish border shows they intented power projections, that shitt aint gonna fly with us. They did this twice in the past and we clearly stated that there wont be a next time when they dared such a thing again. Its their own fault so they should stop crying like children about it now. Let them Ruskies know, dont fvk with us.


Could not believe some of the things, why would the pilot in the SU-24 with the bombing configuration will ignore the warning of the Turkish F-16 again and again for 10 times, either they are mad, or they on the suicidal mission. Next time when the SU-24, or Su-34 pullback flies with the SU-30MKK try it once again, and see the result.

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## type93

Gibbs said:


> Reuters now also reporting that Turkmen rebels claim to have opened fire on the pilots as they descended with parachutes. The deputy commander of a Turkmen Brigade in Syria said both were shot dead. - Sky


Time for Russia to strike the Turkmen too

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## A1Kaid

Dash said:


> If you have a good observing power you can go by disciplines and rules of engagement, you dont need to be a spokesperson for that. Its just that you dont need to keep a bias.



You don't know exactly what procedures were taken by the Turkish pilots and what rules of engagement they implemented. Don't try and sound too smart for your own good. Until that information is publicly available don't try to come on here and lecture anybody.

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## matmat26

Rus Heli BOOOM

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## illusion8

People need to cool down a bit..nothing major is going to happen..Other than diplomatic pow wow.

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## Gibbs

A1Kaid said:


> You better watch your mouth, you come from a little s-hole island yourself. How has he turned Turkey into that? Turkey remains a secular country, with rule of secular law, what he has done is lifted strict restrictions on religions.



Like i said whats prolonging Turkey being turned in to another Islamic shit hole it's the Turkish people, Most who still hold on to values of Ataturk.. Even though Erdogan is trying his best.. Rest of you're vain threats are just empty farts of no value

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## 帅的一匹

BordoEnes said:


> Fvck off with that pathethic claim. Bombing ISIS? What the fvck where they doing above Turkmen militia territory when the nearest ISIS stronghold was 200km east? GTFO with that dumbshitt "morally guided" argument about ISIS.


Erdogan's daughter is big fan of ISIL and build hospital for them in Turkey,how you explain it?

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## Kamil_baku

abp94 said:


> Depends
> 
> If Russian state television is spinning it off as rebels downing the plane, which is what they're doing, talking about surface to air missiles, according to analysts listening to Russian state TV, then it's pretty obvious that even with a dead pilot, they can spin it by just bombing the rebel areas, without any relation to Turkey.
> 
> A war with Turkey is not simple, there is NATO, there is the Turkish army, and not sure, maybe @Sinan can confirm but Turkey have a nuclear deterrent from the US as well?


Turkey has 90 b61 nuclear warheads that can be used in against nuclear threat... Just recently, Aselsan started to upgrade them and all the codes are under turkish control now.. To those Chinese kids, its not easy to nuke Turkey, unless you dont want to suicide as a nation.. 
Nuclear sharing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## A1Kaid

egodoc222 said:


> You Turks fell into the trap!!! Now you gave Russians a reason and justification for massive military deployment!!
> No wonder you pm is called a dumbo!!
> Now EU will distance itself from you!!



Russia can't afford a massive military development, and it's not like they were waiting for a "justification". Does Russia ever wait for a justification? It's a pro-active country. EU will not distance itself as a lot of goods are transported through Turkey into EU and Turkey geographically is vital part of EU's economy.

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## alaungphaya

zebra7 said:


> Could not believe some of the things, why would the pilot in the SU-24 with the bombing configuration will ignore the warning of the Turkish F-16 again and again for 10 times, either they are mad, or they on the suicidal mission. Next time when the SU-24, or Su-34 pullback flies with the SU-30MKK try it once again, and see the result.



Exactly. Russia will bring Su-34's next time with fighter escorts. What will Turkey do then? What is Russia is forced to down a Turkish plane in return? A NATO jet being brought down by a Russian plane. Erdogan has opened a giant Pandora's box.

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## SpArK

I wish for at-least once in history countries like China, India should speak out for Russia and give them a clear moral, material and other capable help.

Its been a US and some rich European?NATO show off in events round the world.

World is suffering for their misadventures. Enough is enough.

If China joins hands with Russia and France on their missions in that volatile region , the glamour boys from west can go back and mind their own businesses.

Dont know about India.... we haven't yet grown a pair yet for events at this level.

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## zebra7

Kamil_baku said:


> Turkey has 90 b61 nuclear warheads that can be used in against nuclear threat... Just recently, Aselsan started to upgrade them and all the codes are under turkish control now.. To those Chinese kids, its not easy to nuke Turkey, unless you dont want to suicide as a nation..
> Nuclear sharing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Magic of PDF, Hidden secrets which could not be revieled by spy agencies, is revieled here

Congratulation @WebMaster on you mission.


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## Hyperion

I don't even know where to begin to address the naivety of Turkish strategic planners, and more importantly, the boundless stupidity of Erdogan. People advocating sovereignty "issues", NATO backing, and "weak" Russian economy, for pretext to what can't be undone, need to see a psychiatrist.

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## TopCat

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Turkey can beat Russian Forces on all fields. Except nuclear. Turkey is not Ukraine or Georgia. Putin must know, He was warned .



LMAOF... I dont know about Russia but I dont think Turkey could even handle Greece... 
Don't make yourself a joke... Turkey is a strong modern and decent nation but not a economic or military super power.

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## SiCiSi

Played right into our hands. Now no turkish jet will enter syria for fear of being shot down by the s300/400. 

Looks like no more cheap IS oil for Turkey lol.

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## pak-marine

Looking at pdfi'ans comments if it was upto them turkey and russia may have nuked and finished few cities of each other by now ..


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## matmat26

Russian Helecopter BOOOOOOOOOM

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## zebra7

SiCiSi said:


> Played right into our hands. Now no turkish jet will enter syria for fear of being shot down by the s300/400.
> 
> Looks like no more cheap IS oil for Turkey lol.


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## flamer84

Gibbs said:


> Reuters now also reporting that Turkmen rebels claim to have opened fire on the pilots as they descended with parachutes. The deputy commander of a Turkmen Brigade in Syria said both were shot dead. - Sky




Barbaric ! RIP to the pilots 

@Sinan WTF dude?.....couldn't Erdogan atleast control its allies from commiting such a monstruosity ?


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## egodoc222

A1Kaid said:


> Russia can't afford a massive military development, and it's not like they were waiting for a "justification". Does Russia ever wait for a justification? It's a pro-active country. EU will not distance itself as a lot of goods are transported through Turkey into EU and Turkey geographically is vital part of EU's economy.


By justification I meant...it will effectively neutralizes the western media propaganda about Russian involvement in syria...Russia will use this incident in potraying that US and EU are trying to stop the good work done against the ISIS!!
By distancing itself I meant diplomatically!!


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## Hurshid Celebi

BuddhaPalm said:


> It looks like a massive attack against Turkish military targets by Russian strategic bombers!



They should try and will be downed, the TU-Bears are welcome as target

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## A1Kaid

Abingdonboy said:


> Actually this is far too simplistic. In most modern airforces (given Turkey is a member of NATO this should apply to them also) the escalation formula is quite clear cut. There are a number of steps you take before engaging an intruding aircraft which includes voice/radio challenges but also visual warnings i.e pulling alongside, rotating your wings and firing chaff and flares in their path. Shooting dowsn is litterally the last option and I would be amazed if the TuAF had followed the above steps prior to shooting down the Russian plane. It seems they engaged some distance away.



As of now we don't know exactly what steps the Turkish pilots took, but they have stated they issued repeated warnings. Why two Russian pilots repeatedly ignore those warnings and not reply is another issue. Though of course its best to wait until all information is made clear.

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## 帅的一匹

SiCiSi said:


> Played right into our hands. Now no turkish jet will enter syria for fear of being shot down by the s300/400.
> 
> Looks like no more cheap IS oil for Turkey lol.


Buying cheap oil from devil is unforgivable. It's a shame. What they buy is not oil, it's human blood.

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## zebra7

ISIS have annual budget and turnover. They issue salary with salary slip plus incentives to the Jehadi Lolz 

No terrorist group can survive unless some govt finances it - terror economy expert

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## egodoc222

flamer84 said:


> Barbaric ! RIP to the pilots
> 
> @Sinan WTF dude?.....couldn't Erdogan atleast control its allies from commiting such a monstruosity ?


He brought this sh!t upon his country!!! 
Expect massive retaliation by ruskies!!


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## Hurshid Celebi

egodoc222 said:


> By justification I meant...it will effectively neutralizes the western media propaganda about Russian involvement in syria...Russia will use this incident in potraying that US and EU are trying to stop the good work done against the ISIS!!
> By distancing itself I meant diplomatically!!



Russia never targeted ISIL, they targeted FSA and Türkmen Forces. Russia and Syria have signed an Agreement with ISIL.

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## SpArK

The Latest: Protesters outside Russian consulate in Turkey | Boston Herald

The protesters gathered on Tuesday, shortly after Turkey shot down a Russian plane that it said violated Turkish airspace and ignored repeated warnings for it to leave. The plane was operating over the Turkmen Mountain region in Syria's Latakia province.

The protesters chanted: "Turkmen brothers are not alone" and "*Killer Russia, get out of Syria.*"

___

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## Dash

A1Kaid said:


> You don't know exactly what procedures were taken by the Turkish pilots and what rules of engagement they implemented. Don't try and sound too smart for your own good. Until that information is publicly available don't try to come on here and lecture anybody.



I am not trying to be smart, I actually am, where I can see a small peice of information before hand. And these are state secrets and hardly invite a reason to make them available in public. But I am sure we will certainly know the real truth, when we see its reactions.

having said that, I would be happy if there is no involvement of theirs. However all that has been shown to us points to this one thing only.

With due respect,
Dash


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## Indos

SpArK said:


> So what was the relevance of Iranian or syrian...
> 
> if you hit russians they hit back no matter wherever it is.



Of course there is a BIG relevance of that two factors on this matter, Russia will not fly the planes in the first place if there is no influence of that two "factors" 

Factor is : 

a circumstance, fact, or influence that contributes to a result or outcome.


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## Hurshid Celebi

zebra7 said:


> ISIS have annual budget and turnover. They issue salary with salary slip plus incentives to the Jehadi Lolz
> 
> No terrorist group can survive unless some govt finances it - terror economy expert



Hey, the crude oil goes via Jordan also to Israel and not Turkey

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## 帅的一匹

Hurshid Celebi said:


> They should try and will be downed, the TU-Bears are welcome as target


You are not in the same level, not even close.

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## Hurshid Celebi

flamer84 said:


> Barbaric ! RIP to the pilots
> 
> @Sinan WTF dude?.....couldn't Erdogan atleast control its allies from commiting such a monstruosity ?



One Pilot is alive and captutred also some Russina CSAR Forces shot sown in a MI-8 from FSA Forces.


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## Pindi Boy

GTM900 said:


> Russia should detonate a few 100 of their old cold war era 25 to 30 Megaton warheads over each and every Turkish city and wipe out at least 200 million Turkic men,women and children.


Now thats a typical Indian thinking

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## Ceylal

Kamil_baku said:


> Israel apologized for that and accepted to pay money who suffered there...


Israel apologized a year later after they belittle your Ambassador. The US paid the compensation.


> No matter we downed it in Syria or Turkish airspace.. We got the balls to do it. Can Russia do anything against us? This is not Georgia, Ukrain or rebels, Welcome to Turkey!


That where you are wrong, Russians have always replied in kind..ask the Lebanese who , in the 80's kidnapped two of their Embassy staff...Downing their craft in Syrian airspace is an act of war...With Georgia and Ukraine they have a common history, same blood run in their vessels...they were brutal but lean with them...You bring back the era when they were under the Ottoman empire ....NOT GOOD!

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## zebra7

I think Chinese Involvement is needed here now, for the Speedy end of the ISIS. I am not the supporter of PLA, but Chinese with its ground forces, and navy, and Russian with its S400 and fighter jets, would end this Drama of US, NATO what they are playing hide and seek for years.

American-allied nations are secretly helping ISIS to grow - US Colonel Ann Wright

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## Hurshid Celebi

wanglaokan said:


> You are not in the same level, not even close.



You can bet on it !

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## egodoc222

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russia never targeted ISIL, they targeted FSA and Türkmen Forces. Russia and Syria have signed an Agreement with ISIL.


It might be true or not...no one gives a fk...what's in the international media...stands ground!! No place for conspiracy theories!!
If the story is true...your president should've made an effort to bring out the true story and put diplomatic pressure on russia that shooting a plane....utter stupidity!!


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## Hurshid Celebi

zebra7 said:


> I think Chinese Involvement is needed here now, for the Speedy end of the ISIS. I am not the supporter of PLA, but Chinese with its ground forces, and navy, and Russian with its S400 and fighter jets, would end this Drama of US, NATO what they are playing hide and seek for years.
> 
> American-allied nations are secretly helping ISIS to grow - US Colonel Ann Wright



Did you have ever seen a Chinese direct involvement after Korea or Vietnam ?

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## zebra7

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Hey, the crude oil goes via Jordan also to Israel and not Turkey


Source, and you want to state that none of the crude oil goes to turkey.


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## Hurshid Celebi

egodoc222 said:


> It might be true or not...no one gives a fk...what's in the international media...stands ground!! No place for conspiracy theories!!



It is not conspiracy . All Targets were FSA Targets. French bombed some crude oil tankers


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## 帅的一匹

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russia never targeted ISIL, they targeted FSA and Türkmen Forces. Russia and Syria have signed an Agreement with ISIL.


You don't even know what you are talking about.

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## Mrc

Right step taken by turkey...
No action would have been seen as sign of weakness...

Nothing will happen ...russia will just need to back down..

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## Juicer

madmusti said:


> We know the Time when Turkey forces to land Russian Cargo Planes but against Armed Units anyone should do the Same.
> 
> In the last Weeks Russian Planes already violented Turkish Airspace and Turkey warned even Russia, they don´t listen so they should "Feel" !
> 
> Im not happy what has been happened but this is the Reality which has happened in the last Weeks.



first you shot down the fighter jet and then your beloved so called Turkmen Rebel attacked rescue Helicopter and killed pilots .... look like these Turkmen group was waiting for this ....

and for your knowledge , this Turkmen are OFFICIALLY supported by Turkey government ...

this was bold move , but very very bad one ....

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## Hurshid Celebi

T-123456 said:


> Dont do that.



@Yenikuyu

They provoce and write about roasted Turkeys


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## TopCat

Americans says nothing YET!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hurshid Celebi

Juicer said:


> first you should down the fighter jet and then your beloved so called Turkmen Rebel attacked to rescue Helicopter .... look like these Turkmen group was waiting for this .... and for your knowledge , this Turkmen are OFFICIALLY supported by Turkey government ...
> 
> this was bold move , but very very bad one ....



Yes Hakan Fidan CHIEF of MIT announced that Turkey is supporting TÜRKMENS !


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## zebra7

Where is Super duper Su-35, after all its need some showdown because PAF is looking forward to it.

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## Natan

Kudos for Turkey!

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## SpArK

Indos said:


> Of course there is a BIG relevance of that two factors on this matter, Russia will not fly the planes in the first place if there is no influence of that two "factors"
> 
> Factor is :
> 
> a circumstance, fact, or influence that contributes to a result or outcome.



So according to your theory no matter how many Russian jets go down, Putin wont retaliate it "*for*" Iranian or Assad.

I promise i will surely laugh over your observation when i get some spare time.


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## -SINAN-

flamer84 said:


> Barbaric ! RIP to the pilots
> 
> @Sinan WTF dude?.....couldn't Erdogan atleast control its allies from commiting such a monstruosity ?



Maybe Russian pilots shouldn't have bombed Turkmen villages in the first place ?

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## farhan_9909

Russia has alot to loose if they escalate it further.

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## Lure

The ones who shot down the Russian Jet are the ones who hates Turkey. The ones who supports this reckless act are the ones that should be accused of treason.

One day people of Turkey will understand the consequences of those mistakes, but it will be too late for us. Pity among us who does not support this madness yet still labeled as terror supporters or fundementalists. Just because we are citizens of the same country with bunch of lunatics does not mean we are all lunatics.

All I can say to foreigners in here is, altough there is a higher probability (you can figure that out from the election results) that a Turk you meet might be supporting those lunatics, there is a huge minority who feel ashamed by those acts.

Turkish state is heading towards being a rogue state with speed of light. The great heritage that Mustafa Kemal has left us is ruined.

*The person who downed this jet today is not my brother anymore. The one in the downed jet is my brother from now on. *

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## FlyCheatter

Путин расценил крушение Су-24 как удар в спину от пособников терроризма - Новости Политики - Новости Mail.Ru


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## alaungphaya

Mrc said:


> Right step taken by turkey...
> No action would have been seen as sign of weakness...
> 
> Nothing will happen ...russia will just need to back down..



Russia back down? The Russians will have planned completely for this. They will either turn up the heat or this was just a trap set by Russia. When have the Russians ever backed down? Why would anyone expect the Russians to back down?

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## Juicer

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Yes Hakan Fidan CHIEF of MIT announced that Turkey is supporting TÜRKMENS !



Erdogan officially said that Turkey is supporting Turkmen arms group in north of Syria ... there is no way you can deny it ...

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## Soulspeek

As per RT, Russian Su-24 pilots were shot dead while parachuting over Syria.

First Turks gave Russians a grave wound. Now they are applying salt on it..!

Erdogran never gonna forget this day in his life.

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## madmusti

Juicer said:


> first you should down the fighter jet and then your beloved so called Turkmen Rebel attacked to rescue Helicopter .... look like these Turkmen group was waiting for this .... and for your knowledge , this Turkmen are OFFICIALLY supported by Turkey government ...
> 
> this was bold move , but very very bad one ....



Yes ? Why we should not support Turkmens ? Is there something wrong to support your own blood ?

Turkmens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I thought you don´t like the Turkmen Flag ? Is that remembering you Something ?

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## TopCat

Mrc said:


> Right step taken by turkey...
> No action would have been seen as sign of weakness...
> 
> *Nothing will happen *...russia will just need to back down..



Wrong.. the best case scenarios,, Turkmen proxies will be flattened within a week or so..
And there will be more violations and Turkish planes will stay away 15 miles from their own border... Count my word.

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## Pindi Boy

Nilgiri said:


> LOL @ chinese trolls clamouring for Russia to nuke Turkey.
> 
> Keyboard warriors to the nth degree.


Bro an indian also suggest to drop afew hundered megaton nukes on turkey to kill 200 million peoples ignoring that the total population of turkey is 80 million


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## TopCat

farhan_9909 said:


> Russia has alot to loose if they escalate it further.



They are in Syria to gain.. This is the first time they are projecting power away from home. They know what they are doing..


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## Bratva

@500 HD Video from Syrian rebels destroying Russian helicopter with TOW ATGM that came for rescue.

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## Indos

SpArK said:


> So according to your theory no matter how many Russian jets go down, Putin wont retaliate it "*for*" Iranian or Assad.
> 
> I promise i will surely laugh over your observation when i get some spare time.



The way you think has already been poised with the need derived from your* feeling* to back your favorite country, and since India is so close with Rusia, so I can see where the motive comes from.


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## Juicer

madmusti said:


> Yes ? Why we should not support Turkmens ? Is there something wrong to support your own blood ?
> Turkmens - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



When you are training and arming and arm group , you have control over it and you are responsible for it action .... and for God sake , you are doing it Officially ...

so for rest of world it is like this :_ Turkey shot down a Russia fighter over Syria and then her troops execute Russian pilots in Syria land and then they attacked to Russian rescue Helicopter and shot down it in Syria ... _

it doesn't sound good at all ...

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## flamer84

Sinan said:


> Maybe Russian pilots shouldn't have bombed Turkmen villages in the first place ?




This would escalate things massively.No NATO member would defend crazy jihadists shooting to kill parachuting Russians.I don't like the Russians either but i wouldn't touch this situation with a 100 metres long pole.What the world sees is Russian airmen gunned down by crazies shouting "Allah Akbar".....good luck selling that in Washington,Paris,London.

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## alaungphaya

Bratva said:


> @500 HD Video from Syrian rebels destroying Russian helicopter with TOW ATGM that came for rescue.



Verification?

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## simple Brain

Gasoline said:


> Don't -I- realize- where- I'm- from ?
> 
> Is that a question or joke ?  Am I supposed to laugh or cry that your kind of people are still exists.
> 
> War is not like video games, okay kid ?
> 
> Now it's time to go back to play with your toys.
> 
> Take this so you can be busy with it, kid :


damn it tasted like blood, no wonder it was from Saudi Arabia....

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## BordoEnes

Lure said:


> The ones who shot down the Russian Jet are the ones who hates Turkey. The ones who supports this reckless act are the ones that should be accused of treason.
> 
> One day people of Turkey will understand the consequences of those mistakes, but it will be too late for us. Pity among us who does not support this madness yet still labeled as terror supporters or fundementalists. Just because we are citizens of the same country with bunch of lunatics does not mean we are all lunatics.
> 
> All I can say to foreigners in here is, altough there is a higher probability (you can figure that out from the election results) that a Turk you meet might be supporting those lunatics, there is a huge minority who feel ashamed by those acts.
> 
> Turkish state is heading towards being a rogue state with speed of light. The great heritage that Mustafa Kemal has left us is ruined.
> 
> *The person who downed this jet today is not my brother anymore. The one in the downed jet is my brother from now on. *



Go away pacifist. While you keep hugging trees Russia is bombing our brethern in the Turkmen mountains. This has nothing to do with Erdogan btw, this is all about our right to defence our country. They did this twice months ago, so your and their crying aint gonna do shitt at this point.

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## SpArK

Indos said:


> The way you think has already been poised with the need derived from your* feeling* to back your favorite country, and since India is so close with Rusia, so I can see where the motive comes from.



_Every country who naturally hates what the US and the Europe has been playing , messing up countries like Syria, Iraq, Egypt and some others in the region and are parents of many evil organisations which has born out of their actions are a natural partner and supporter of Russia._


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## Rukarl

BordoEnes said:


> Piss off pacifist. While you keep hugging trees Russia is bombing our brethern in the Turkmen mountains. This has nothing to do with Erdogan btw, this is all about our right to defence our country. They did this twice months ago, so your and their crying aint gonna do shitt at this point.


Being hotheaded is a mistake.

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## egodoc222

SpArK said:


> I wish for at-least once in history countries like China, India should speak out for Russia and give them a clear moral, material and other capable help.
> 
> Its been a US and some rich European?NATO show off in events round the world.
> 
> World is suffering for their misadventures. Enough is enough.
> 
> If China joins hands with Russia and France on their missions in that volatile region , the glamour boys from west can go back and mind their own businesses.
> 
> Dont know about India.... we haven't yet grown a pair yet for events at this level.


It's not about growing stuff!!
If India does That....Indian media and sickularists will cry that India is becoming intolerant and antimuslim!! Like they did in yakub case!!
And one or two actors will threaten to leave country!! So...

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## Mrc

alaungphaya said:


> Russia back down? The Russians will have planned completely for this. They will either turn up the heat or this was just a trap set by Russia. When have the Russians ever backed down? Why would anyone expect the Russians to back down?




Stepping up?? Into ww3 u mean?


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## Gen Padmanabhan

Indos said:


> The way you think has already been poised with the need derived from your* feeling* to back your favorite country, and since India is so close with Rusia, so I can see where the motive comes from.


And Indonesia isnt?

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## TopCat

BordoEnes said:


> Piss off pacifist. While you keep hugging trees Russia is bombing our brethern in the Turkmen mountains. This has nothing to do with Erdogan btw, this is all about our right to defence our country. They did this twice months ago, so your and their crying aint gonna do shitt at this point.



Turkmen mountain belongs to Syria. Turkmen are syrian too... NO?

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## Bratva

To every cheer leader Irani, chinese and others jumping up and down here. This post from another forum goes for you so you all have a fcuking clue what is going on. 


Stop lumping every distinct ethnic/religious/political group together as homogenous "rebels." The Kurds, the Turkmen, ISIS, the jihadists, and the Free Syrian Army have all at various times been vaguely (and lazily) referred to as rebels so that everyone and their mother doesn't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.

The Turkmen in the north are actively fighting against ISIS. Meanwhile, Russia is blindly supporting al-Assad on all fronts, even when that means bombing the exact same groups fighting ISIS.

Over the last few days, Russia has been bombing the shit out of the Turkmen-controlled areas in order to aid the Syrian army. Turkey has warned Russia multiple times to stop bombing its people in Syria (Turkmen are Syrians of Turkish descent and Turkey sees them as the best buffer against the advance of ISIS into its territory). So essentially, Russia bombed Turkey's allies, Turkey said **** off, Russia continued, Russia's plane got shot down. It is totally fucked up that some soldiers shot at a pilot as he was parachuting down. However the circlejerk here on reddit doesn't seem to give a shit that this is a warzone, the pilot was an enemy combatant who had been bombing Turkmen villages, and this is nowhere near the most horrific shit that is happening in this war. Al-Assad used chemical weapons on his own people, ISIS is raping and beheading civilians. Meanwhile, Russia is wasting its time bombing an ethnic group that rightfully opposes both those fronts. Turkey has already taken in 2.2 million refugees from this civil war, and 1,500 new refugees just arrived at the Turkish border due to the Russian airstrikes. I'm all for Russia unleashing hell on ISIS, but they're targeting the wrong people and crying when Turkey calls them out on it.

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## madmusti

Juicer said:


> When you are training and arming and arm group , you have control over it and you are responsible for it action .... and for God sake , you are doing it Officially ...
> 
> so for rest of world it is like this :_ Turkey shot down a Russia fighter over Syria and then her troops execute Russian pilots in Syria land and then they attacked to Russian rescue Helicopter and shot down it ... _
> 
> it doesn't sound good at all ...



So let´s start from the Fall of the Soviet Union and the actions from Russia against Turkey, i had forgot Iran, Greece, Bulgaria, Syria & Armenia.

Why from the exits of "PKK" those Countries has supported them against Turkey ? Do you think Wounds heal 100 % ? 

Can you "Explain" this ? Can you explain the "Hezbollah" who is backed from Iran ? Are they have any difference between ISIS ? The Problem is that ISIS had hurt all you bastards you are playing their Dirty Games in the Middle East.

I don´t support ISIS actions against innocent People, but where is the difference between ISIS & Hezbollah ?

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## FlyCheatter

RIP chelyabinsk soldier on the mission fighting international terrorism
Новости онлайн - 24 ноября 2015 года - Страница №1

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

iajdani said:


> Wrong.. the best case scenarios,, Turkmen proxies will be flattened within a week or so..
> And there will be more violations and Turkish planes will stay away 15 miles from their own border... Count my word.


This is the beginning of getting our peoples and lands back to the fold of a secured and prosperous union, which was taken away from us by the "Meluns" both international and domestic. For 800 years we stood guard against the invaders to the greater ME. Not a single strand of the hair of children, women or elder people could be touched for the frontline was at the west. I believe this is being realized by the majority of people in the region with every breath they take. May "Murad - i - Ilahi" takes it course for the victory belongs to HIM.


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## A1Kaid

People are forgetting Erdogan is no longer Prime Minister it is PM Davutoglu. Erdogan is now President.

Either way if Turkey doesn't defend it's airspace people will say Turkey is weak and cowardly and Erdogan is bad for national security. If Turkey does defend it's airspace than Turkey is being irresponsible, warmonger, and Erdogan is crazy.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Juicer said:


> Erdogan officially said that Turkey is supporting Turkmen arms group in north of Syria ... there is no way you can deny it ...



Yes we do not only President Erdogan, also MP Davutoglu and MIT CHIEF Fidan said that. We will not again allow a masscare of Muslims and Turks like in BOSNIA

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## TopCat

Bratva said:


> To every cheer leader Irani, chinese and others jumping up and down here. This post from another forum goes for you so you all have a fcuking clue what is going on.
> 
> 
> Stop lumping every distinct ethnic/religious/political group together as homogenous "rebels." The Kurds, the Turkmen, ISIS, the jihadists, and the Free Syrian Army have all at various times been vaguely (and lazily) referred to as rebels so that everyone and their mother doesn't have a fucking clue what they're talking about.
> 
> The Turkmen in the north are actively fighting against ISIS. Meanwhile, Russia is blindly supporting al-Assad on all fronts, even when that means bombing the exact same groups fighting ISIS.
> 
> Over the last few days, Russia has been bombing the shit out of the Turkmen-controlled areas in order to aid the Syrian army. Turkey has warned Russia multiple times to stop bombing its people in Syria (Turkmen are Syrians of Turkish descent and Turkey sees them as the best buffer against the advance of ISIS into its territory). So essentially, Russia bombed Turkey's allies, Turkey said **** off, Russia continued, Russia's plane got shot down. It is totally fucked up that some soldiers shot at a pilot as he was parachuting down. However the circlejerk here on reddit doesn't seem to give a shit that this is a warzone, the pilot was an enemy combatant who had been bombing Turkmen villages, and this is nowhere near the most horrific shit that is happening in this war. Al-Assad used chemical weapons on his own people, ISIS is raping and beheading civilians. Meanwhile, Russia is wasting its time bombing an ethnic group that rightfully opposes both those fronts. Turkey has already taken in 2.2 million refugees from this civil war, and 1,500 new refugees just arrived at the Turkish border due to the Russian airstrikes. I'm all for Russia unleashing hell on ISIS, but they're targeting the wrong people and crying when Turkey calls them out on it.



This is the weakest region for Syrian Army and need total control over it before they can open up supply line to the west and north. Turkey was managing its proxies through this route and giving cover from within its border.


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## Lure

BordoEnes said:


> Piss off pacifist. While you keep hugging trees Russia is bombing our brethern in the Turkmen mountains. This has nothing to do with Erdogan btw, this is all about our right to defence our country. They did this twice months ago, so your and their crying aint gonna do shitt at this point.



Well I can assure you that I'm not pacifist if the cause is just. How can you say the political situation in Syria is not about Erdoğan? Did we have right to arm those terrorists in there? Would it be nice if they armed PKK?

We are not only arming Turkmens in here. You should have understood that by now. We are arming a lot of groups with a lot of different agendas and some of them are really close to ISIS. How can you support such reckless acts? It's a shame to be on the same side with radical Islamists. First you should acknowledge that. It's not about Turkey. It's about absurd passion of Erdoğan.

And for you information, a lot of reports other than ours says the Russian plane did not violate Turkish air space.

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## Dragon4

Calling spade a spade.

More from Putin after his meeting with King Abdullah of Jordan. The Russian leader virtually accuses Turkey of supporting Isis in its sale of oil

We have long been recording the movement of a large amount of oil and petroleum products to Turkey from Isis-occupied territories. This explains the significant funding the terrorists are receiving. Now they are stabbing us in the back by hitting our planes that are fighting terrorism. This is happening despite the agreement we have signed with our American partners to prevent air incidents, and, as you know, Turkey is among those who are supposed to be fighting terrorism within the American coalition.

If Isis is making so much money – we are talking about tens or maybe even hundreds of millions, possibly billions of dollars – in oil trade and they are supported by the armed forces of an entire state, it is clear why they are being so daring and impudent, why they are killing people in such gruesome ways, why they are committing terrorist attacks all over the world, including in the heart of Europe.

Putin calls Turkey 'accomplices of terrorists' after Russian jet shot down - live updates | World news | The Guardian

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## alaungphaya

Mrc said:


> Stepping up?? Into ww3 u mean?



Russia will increase its presence in Syria. Russia will challenge Turkish air power. Russia will use this as a media coup to curry sympathy with the West. This is the first step in Russia pushing back Turkish influence in the region. Who knows, maybe this is the first step of Turkey being excluded from NATO.

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## cabatli_53

Dudes, We always need to underline some facts. There are hundreds of Turkish members in PDF talking How advanced Turkish Army is While you were talking How Ruskie antenes blind all Turkish aircrafts bla bla. You should put your heads some facts that Turkey is not a Georgia and It is told Ruski officials that Playing such stupid games with 12 fighters next to our borders for purely chest-thumping while bombing Turkmens a few meters to our borders While ISIS is locating all around them, will cause serious headache to them. If Russia has a plan, Turkey also has. If they want some action, They will receive their response ! The Third World countries can't comprehend the meaning of honor and proud issues of own flag waving inside of own borders, Even If It is the Russia against you ! We have told Ruskie officials that Keep your f@cking aircrafts away from our borders but They did not. It is the reason of such actions. We are ruling this region for centuries and We will keep ruling. Availability of Russia next to our borders playing such nonsense bombing games won't change any fact.

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## pkd

Turkish state television, TRT, released an image purporting to be a military radar representation of the Russian jet's flightpath (dotted red line) passing over the Turkish border (thick blue line).









The two crew ejected from the stricken plane, t

- See more at: Turkey downs Russian plane for 'violating airspace' | Middle East Eye


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## Mrc

Can any one comment on fact that sending an un escorted bomber near turkish airspace without fighter cover was plain stupid or what?


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## -SINAN-

flamer84 said:


> This would escalate things massively*.No NATO member would defend* crazy jihadists shooting to kill parachuting Russians.I don't like the Russians either but i wouldn't touch this situation with a 100 metres long pole.What the world sees is Russian airmen gunned down by crazies shouting "Allah Akbar".....good luck selling that in Washington,Paris,London.


We are well aware. When Greeks began murdering Turkish civilians in Cyprus. Nobody lifted a finger.

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## Hurshid Celebi

F117 said:


> Highest priority for Russia is to destroy the so called "Turkmen", who are nothing but a fifth column of Turkey. I'm hoping to see more videos of white phosphorus employed.



You are crazy , why not tactical nukes. Russia used shrapnel bombs and Syria barrell bombs against Türkmens ,
thats WAR CRIME


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## ultron

pkd said:


> Turkish state television, TRT, released an image purporting to be a military radar representation of the Russian jet's flightpath (dotted red line) passing over the Turkish border (thick blue line).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The two crew ejected from the stricken plane, t
> 
> - See more at: Turkey downs Russian plane for 'violating airspace' | Middle East Eye




Fake. The plane was shot down over Syria. Not over Turkey.

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## like_a_boss

BordoEnes said:


> I hope Russians and Syrians keep sending their fighter jets so we can deliver more "good" news to them


Pshh .... they're waiting to hear good news from turkey

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## Ice Cube

Aero said:


> Some Su-30 escort will very good.


or deploy SU 35s, it's strange this happened because when they first began their operations in Syria, SU 25s had flanker escorts in full A2A config.


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## Hakan

Too many pages to read. 

Russian jets locked their radars onto Turkish jets in the area before and they have violated Turkish air space before. Don't forget when they sent recon aircraft to Turkey's black sea coast during the recent Crimea incidents. Russia was insulting Turkey by violating its air space repeatedly and by bombing ethnic Turks right under Turkeys nose. They invaded Turkey's neighbor Georgia in 2008 and took over Crimea just recently. They are mainly bombing Turkish and U.S backed forces in Syria. These are all provocations.The only option was to give them a strong response and when they violated Turkish air space the opportunity was not missed.There is no way Turkey can be blamed for this.

Even if you say the Russian jet never entered Turkey then at least you have to admit that it is highly plausible especially if Putin claims it was only 1 km away from the Turkish border.

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## Mrc

ultron said:


> Fake. The plane was shot down over Syria. Not over Turkey.



Great...
Now what are u going to do about it?

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## Hakan

like_a_boss said:


> Pshh .... they're waiting to hear good news from turkey
> View attachment 274483


The wind will blow the radiation over Iran. Maybe the radiation treatment will help cure the brain cancer that is impairing your thinking.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Mrc said:


> Right step taken by turkey...
> No action would have been seen as sign of weakness...
> 
> Nothing will happen ...russia will just need to back down..


Right brother! This is what I expected from the millet which produced likes of M M Alam. You have bravely fought Russian invasion in Afghanistan. Believing pilots cool increases as the altitude is gained further.

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## Pindi Boy

soundHound said:


> And there goes my dream of seeing Istanbul one day.


And that dream willl remain as nothing going to be happen We shot down their 2 jets do they invade us ?????


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## Lure

Sinan said:


> We are well aware. When Greeks began murdering Turkish civilians in Cyprus. Nobody lifted a finger.



Check your facts about Leonid Brezhnev, Muammar Gaddafi and Eprahim Katzir before making such claims.


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## Serpentine

This is the map that Turkey released:







The distance shown inside Turkey's airspace is merely 3 kilometers.





*Even if the Russian plane was flying with subsonic speed, it couldn't have been inside Turkey's airspace for more than 30 seconds at most.*

Now, how could have Turks warned Russian plane *10 times in 5 minutes *while being Inside Turkish airspace? 

Reminds me of the 90s, when Turkey used to violate Iran's airspace dozens of times while claiming to bomb PKK, and it didn't stop until we sent some Tomcats and Mig-29s to Tabriz airbase. Using Turkey's logic. it was perfectly justified to shoot down Turkey's jets who violated our airspace not once, but various times.

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## Zaneesh852

Ice Cube said:


> or deploy SU 35s, it's strange this happened because when they first began their operations in Syria, SU 25s had flanker escorts in full A2A config.


I think they have Fulcrums as AS fighters in Syria. Some fensers and foxbats in ground attack.


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## madmusti

@Hakan nice Avatar Bro

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## fox 2

People need the understand this ; Russia apoligized two times for violating Turkey airspace. Russia and Turkey agreed about new engage rules. So our pilots warned 10 times in 5 minutes. This is simple is that. 
WE CAN DEFEND OUR AIRSPACE !!! 
No ISIS, no Turkmen, Esad, no NATO not about anything. 
Who do you think we are ? Syria ? Iraq ? Georgia ? Ukraine ? Just shut your mouths.

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## madmusti

Juicer said:


> When you are training and arming and arm group , you have control over it and you are responsible for it action .... and for God sake , you are doing it Officially ...
> 
> so for rest of world it is like this :_ Turkey shot down a Russia fighter over Syria and then her troops execute Russian pilots in Syria land and then they attacked to Russian rescue Helicopter and shot down it in Syria ... _
> 
> it doesn't sound good at all ...



You idiots are doing that Shit Official in your own Country !!!


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## SiCiSi

Mrc said:


> Great...
> Now what are u going to do about it?



Close down the air space of Syria so that Turkey cant aid its ISIS allies.

Do you want to see how the S300/400 works?

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## TopCat

HAKIKAT said:


> This is the beginning of getting our peoples and lands back to the fold of a secured and prosperous union, which was taken away from us by the "Meluns" both international and domestic. For 800 years we stood guard against the invaders to the greater ME. Not a single strand of the hair of children, women or elder people could be touched for the frontline was at the west. I believe this is being realized by the majority of people in the region with every breath they take. May "Murad - i - Ilahi" takes it course for the victory belongs to HIM.



And those ME descended into an uneducated poor barbaric place when Turkmen controlling the trade route to the East and earning free money. What better did you do?


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## Hurshid Celebi

Let's proceed in TR-section. In other section are too much insults and attacks. No realistic and factual discussion possible.


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## F117

Hurshid Celebi said:


> You are crazy , why not tactical nukes. Russia used shrapnel bombs and Syria barrell bombs against Türkmens ,
> thats WAR CRIME


The real crime is using an ethnic group as a proxy force to further your own interests.

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## nik22

May God give the strength to pilot's family.

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## Juicer

madmusti said:


> You idiots are doing that Shit Official in your own Country !!!



so ,do you are saying that Erdoga isn't Official member of Turkey gov !?

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## saiyan0321

Very surprising development. think turkey acted rashly here. However don't think this will lead to Russia. Putin may be a bit imperialistic but i don't think he willattack turkey even if it is just a conventional war to destroy Turkish military ... Most probably will use propaganda to defame turkey and western powers.


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## Hakan

We should all have the same one. I thought the erdogan hurkus one would be funny but the one below is better for everyone.


madmusti said:


> @Hakan nice Avatar Bro

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## Ice Cube

Zaneesh852 said:


> I think they have Fulcrums as AS fighters in Syria. Some fensers and foxbats in ground attack.


mig 29s are old Syrian air force ones, Russians have only SU 30sm as air superiority there atm

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## cabatli_53

SiCiSi said:


> Close down the air space of Syria so that Turkey cant aid its ISIS allies.
> 
> Do you want to see how the S300/400 works?




Dude, You are making too much sound thanks to 12 fighter, a few tanks next to our borders. Destroying all your rusty Black sea fleet + Syrian troops will take just a day for Turkey Army. You also know it very well. Either respect our borders, or You will receive such hard responses !

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## Hurshid Celebi

F117 said:


> The real crime is using an ethnic group as a proxy force to further your own interests.



Iran uses Hezbollah as PROXY in Syria, Lebanon , Iraq and against Israel

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## CIS-TRANS

like_a_boss said:


> Pshh .... they're waiting to hear good news from turkey
> View attachment 274483


 Russians are not alone to have these. and then as Einstein predicted .. We are that generation of idiots he'd spoken about.. I think Einstein is just lucky not to be here but Russians are not that lucky.


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## matmat26

Persians, even a time in history you have to fight with the Crusaders. You have to always be on the road co-operation against the Muslims ... are now the same.

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## as1mz

What are your thoughts on what'll happen next though? For those who are wondering this may be a trigger to a greater conflict, possibly WW III, I'm really not that sure.

Soon After Turkey Downs Russian Su-24 Warplane | Today in Pakistan


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## Hurshid Celebi

cabatli_53 said:


> Dude, You are making too much sound thanks to 12 fighter, a few tanks next to our borders. Destroying all your rusty Black sea fleet + Syrian troops will take just a day for Turkey Army. You also know it very well. Either respect our borders, or You will receive such hard responses !



Our submarine Forces are ready, maybe we can Close DARDANELLES if Russia escalates !
We can beat Russian on all convential militray fields.

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## Rukarl

matmat26 said:


> Persians, even a time in history you have to fight with the Crusaders. You have to always be on the road co-operation against the Muslims ... are now the same.


You forgot that Turkey is in a CRUSADER ALLIANCE (NATO).


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## SiCiSi

cabatli_53 said:


> Dude, You are making too much sound thanks to 12 fighter, a few tanks next to our borders. Destroying all your rusty Black sea fleet + Syrian troops will take just a day for Turkey Army. You also know it very well. Either respect our borders, or You will receive such hard responses !



You do realize we can destroy your entire culture and history in a few minutes right? Fumigating a house full of cockroaches takes longer.

Calm down, we played you and now you wont be able to aid your ISIS allies. 

Now we can close down the airspace and kill off your little rebel rats in peace.

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## Serpentine

matmat26 said:


> Persians, even a time in history you have to fight with the Crusaders. You have to always be on the road co-operation against the Muslims ... are now the same.



Says the guy whose country is the sole Muslim member of NATO.

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## madmusti

Juicer said:


> so ,do you are saying that Erdoga isn't Official member of Turkey gov !?



I don´t understand you, please be clear and don´t Troll.


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## Lure

According to the official report, Russian jet was warned "many times" before being shot down. However the radar reports that was also disclosed shows that the total amount of mileage that the Russian jet covered in Turkish airspace is about 2 km. I've calculated and it roughly takes 6 seconds for a modern jet to cover such distance. How can we warn a jet "multiple times" in 6 seconds? 

Turkish members here should learn some basic physics and advanced pariotism.

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## cabatli_53

SiCiSi said:


> You do realize we can destroy your entire culture and history in a few minutes right? Fumigating a house full of cockroaches takes longer.
> 
> Calm down, we played you and now you wont be able to aid your ISIS allies.
> 
> Now we can close down the airspace and kill off your little rebel rats in peace.



You can destroy only in your dreams and maybe net environment as a keyboard warrior. When the subject is the active field operations, We saw What you are able to do in Georgia and Syria. Firstly educate your pilots to hit ground targets preciously, Then come next to Turkey for a fight !

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## lonelyman

SiCiSi said:


> You do realize we can destroy your entire culture and history in a few minutes right? Fumigating a house full of cockroaches takes longer.
> 
> Calm down, we played you and now you wont be able to aid your ISIS allies.
> 
> Now we can close down the airspace and kill off your little rebel rats in peace.



Russians are really doing great job killing those ISIS shitheads, while whole Europe is benefiting but won't recognize

Also once again it proves Turks really are supporting ISIS

they kill Kurds, who are really fighting ISIS on the ground
they attack Russians, who are really bombing ISIS terrorists

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## Ice Cube

Erdogan is muslim brotherhood, no wonder his govt supports ISIS and all sorts of other jihadi terror groups in Syria


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## oproh

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Turkey can beat Russian Forces on all fields. Except nuclear. Turkey is not Ukraine or Georgia. Putin must know, He was warned .


lmao


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## FlyCheatter

"Alfa" seems like to be sent to Syria:
«Щит страны от терроризма. Работа бойцов Центра специального назначения ФСБ России. Фоторепортаж» в блоге «Армия и Флот» - Сделано у нас

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## Hyperion

Please do elaborate.......



farhan_9909 said:


> Russia has alot to loose if they escalate it further.


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## -SINAN-

flamer84 said:


> This would escalate things massively.No NATO member would defend *crazy jihadists* shooting to kill parachuting Russians.I don't like the Russians either but i wouldn't touch this situation with a 100 metres long pole.What the world sees is Russian airmen gunned down* by crazies shouting "Allah Akbar"..*...good luck selling that in Washington,Paris,London.


Shooting "Allahu Akbar" doesn't makes you a crazy Jihadist.

If you say so, cross Turks' name as Jihadists too....(sarcasm)





*We are saying "Allahu Akbar"* for centuries, we are not going to change our traditions and customs because some terrorists say it also.







Serpentine said:


> This is the map that Turkey released:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The distance shown inside Turkey's airspace is merely 3 kilometers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Even if the Russian plane was flying with subsonic speed, it couldn't have been inside Turkey's airspace for more than 30 seconds at most.*
> 
> Now, how could have Turks warned Russian plane *10 times in 5 minutes *while being Inside Turkish airspace?
> 
> Reminds me of the 90s, when Turkey used to violate Iran's airspace dozens of times while claiming to bomb PKK, and it didn't stop until we sent some Tomcats and Mig-29s to Tabriz airbase. Using Turkey's logic. it was perfectly justified to shoot down Turkey's jets who violated our airspace not once, but various times.


Militaristic evaluation about the downed Russian jet by Turkish air force.

Why didn't you say these things for Syria when they shot our aircraft for trespassing their airspace for 5 seconds ? ROE have been changed in Syrian border since then.



SiCiSi said:


> Close down the air space of Syria so that Turkey cant aid its ISIS allies.
> 
> Do you want to see how the S300/400 works?



Last time a Turkish airplane had been in Syria was in 2012. So, close all you want. Infact, we would happy to see when you really begin striking ISIS instead of Turkmen villages.

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## Rukarl

lonelyman said:


> Russians are really doing great job killing those ISIS shitheads, while whole Europe is benefiting but won't recognize
> 
> Also once again it proves Turks really are supporting ISIS
> 
> they kill Kurds, who are really fighting ISIS on the ground
> they attack Russians, who are really bombing ISIS terrorists


RuAF was busy bombing ISIS oil supplies and Turkey didn't like it.

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## BordoEnes

Rukarl said:


> Being hotheaded is a mistake.



Sometimes it comes in handy though...

Look obviously the Russians had it coming. Lets not play dumb here, they approached Turkish airspace at an alarming rate and according to the Turkish airforce they even entered it. No mather how you look at it, Russia was the one who was overly aggresive here. The nearest ISIS front is 200km away east, so they are either bombing Turkmen's which Turkey wont stand or they were trying to show off power projection again, which we also wont stand.

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## raazh

It is a very alarming development. Don't know who is right and who is wrong but Russia is in no position to attack any Turkish Military facility as it will not be possible to sustain such operations logistically. Turkey will have the upper hand with or without Nato support.
And if for some reason Iran offers Russia its air space for any action against Turkey then expect open war in the middle east.


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## SiCiSi

Sinan said:


> Last time a Turkish airplane had been in Syria was in 2012. So, close all you want. Infact, we would happy to see when you really begin striking ISIS instead of Turkmen villages.



We will strike anyone we want. FSA, ISIS, Turkmen etc are all the same for us. 

Will your planes enter Syria to save your allies? especially now?

no.

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## fox 2

@Lure 
Stop talking stupid boy. What your purpose ? Are you false flagger ?
Our engage rules are changed 1 months ago and Russians nows this very well. They are apologized two times.
You are writing stupid messages always.


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## madmusti

Lure said:


> According to the official report, Russian jet was warned "many times" before being shot down. However the radar reports that was also disclosed shows that the total amount of mileage that the Russian jet covered in Turkish airspace is about 2 km. I've calculated and it roughly takes 6 seconds for a modern jet to cover such distance. How can we warn a jet "multiple times" in 6 seconds?
> 
> Turkish members here should learn some basic physics and advanced pariotism.




Burası Dış Politika, senin yaptığın ise İç Politika, yani senin gibi birinin Vatanperverlikten bahse edip Hainlik yapmak gibi birşey.....


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## cabatli_53

Since 70 years, No NATO aircraft touched a single Soviet forces but It is the Turkey shot down Russian fighter as a response to their actions in our border !

Happy Christmass Russia..

24.11.2015






24.11.2015

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## alaungphaya

Rukarl said:


> You forgot that Turkey is in a CRUSADER ALLIANCE (NATO).



Not for long if they escalate this.

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## Hyperion

Amen to that brother. It's time we all draw our own red lines. Turkey of Ataturk is on deathbed, once again it's mindless mullah's in power, hellbent on delivering the last nail in Turkey's secular credentials.



Lure said:


> The ones who shot down the Russian Jet are the ones who hates Turkey. The ones who supports this reckless act are the ones that should be accused of treason.
> 
> One day people of Turkey will understand the consequences of those mistakes, but it will be too late for us. Pity among us who does not support this madness yet still labeled as terror supporters or fundementalists. Just because we are citizens of the same country with bunch of lunatics does not mean we are all lunatics.
> 
> All I can say to foreigners in here is, altough there is a higher probability (you can figure that out from the election results) that a Turk you meet might be supporting those lunatics, there is a huge minority who feel ashamed by those acts.
> 
> Turkish state is heading towards being a rogue state with speed of light. The great heritage that Mustafa Kemal has left us is ruined.
> 
> *The person who downed this jet today is not my brother anymore. The one in the downed jet is my brother from now on. *

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## -SINAN-

SiCiSi said:


> We will strike anyone we want. FSA, ISIS, Turkmen etc are all the same for us.
> 
> Will your planes enter Syria to save your allies? especially now?
> 
> no.


Nope, we will continue to shot down Russian aircraft....that's more fun. 

Our support for Turkmens will continue. Hopefully they would down more Russian helicopters.

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## Serpentine

Sinan said:


> Why didn't you say these things for Syria when they shot our aircraft for trespassing their airspace for 5 seconds ? ROE have been changed in Syrian border since then.



Russia or Syria are not sending terrorists or TOW missiles to Turkey to topple its government as we speak, it's the opposite, so your example isn't exactly justified here.

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## Random111

Hurshid Celebi said:


> @Yenikuyu
> 
> They provoce and write about roasted Turkeys



Ah bro, let them.

The same Russia that says they're bombing ISIS goes and bombs FSA. Atleast we admit that we're targeting both ISIS as well as others we consider terrorists.

The same Russia that does multiple border violations then ''apologizes'' for it thinks they can jerk everyone around. Well guess again.

Turkun Turkten baska dostu yoktur lafi varya hani... as a diaspora guy you truly understand what this means. Just look at all the international media attention, almost wanting to make US look bad for defending OUR borders.

The same NATO that was struggling with the Russians in Ukraine, over the Baltics is probably scared shitless because of this incident, wonder if they'll back us up? Don't think so.

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## madmusti

Sinan said:


> Nope, we will continue to shot down Russian aircraft....that's more fun.
> 
> Our support for Turkmens will continue. Hopefully they would down more Russian helicopters.

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## Lure

madmusti said:


> Burası Dış Politika, senin yaptığın ise İç Politika, yani senin gibi birinin Vatanperverlikten bahse edip Hainlik yapmak gibi birşey.....



Dış politika veya iç politika diye bir şey mi kaldı? Eğer yapılan hareketler maceraperest bir şekilde Türkiye'nin geleceğini tehlikeye atmaksa vatana ihanettir. Kimse kusura bakmasın bugün burada yapılan delikanlılık değil itliktir. Aynısı benim ülkeme yapılsa savaş naraları atıyor olurdum burada. Dua edin Ruslar biraz daha medeni çıktı. 

Kendi geleceği veya ihtirası için ülkesinin geleceğini satan insan haindir. Savunulacak bir tarafı yoktur. Vatanınızı adam gibi sevmesini öğrenin önce.


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## Random111

Serpentine said:


> Russia or Syria are not sending terrorists or TOW missiles to Turkey to topple its government as we speak, it's the opposite, so your example isn't exactly justified here.



TOW program is run via CIA vetting in multiple countries, and the TOWS are bought by KSA.
And TOW program is limited to vetted gunners/groups.


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## cabatli_53

SiCiSi said:


> We will strike anyone we want. FSA, ISIS, Turkmen etc are all the same for us.
> 
> Will your planes enter Syria to save your allies? especially now?
> 
> no.




We will shot down anyone who want some actions ! Have an issue ?

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## Full Moon

It is amazing how Iranian members are all in one side trying to find the lost justice for Russia .

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## -SINAN-

Serpentine said:


> Russia or Syria are not sending terrorists or TOW missiles to Turkey to topple its government as we speak, it's the opposite, so your example isn't exactly justified here.


And Turkey isn't being ruled by dictator whom levels it's cities with barrel bombs.

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## SiCiSi

Sinan said:


> Nope, we will continue to shot down Russian aircraft....that's more fun.
> 
> Our support for Turkmens will continue. Hopefully they would down more Russian helicopters.



I doubt a Turkish jet will even think of entering Syria for fear of retaliation. After all, just our s300 can take out your entire air force and then some. Let alone the S400.

You can perform a few stunts from time to time but you really need to understand where the balance of power lies.

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## Gibbs

CIS-TRANS said:


> I'm surprised at your blabber about Turks, an immigrant like you should learn to show some respect, you must have heard that who spit towards sky is spitting on his own face.



What did i blabber about Turks ? .Oh btw respect will be shown when it's due and i have not disrespected Turkish people just the Turkish establishment.. You have comprehension issues

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## SiCiSi

cabatli_53 said:


> We will shot down anyone who want some actions ! Have an issue ?



You do realize we have the most advanced Anti air missile system in the world right?

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## Siavash

Why did Turkey do this it seems the intrusion, if any was minimal and could have let it go! What would Turkey gain from this? What is the analysis in Turkey and yours about it?


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## Gibbs

The US says it will continue airstrikes in Syria "as planned".

US Army Colonel Steve Warren, a spokesman for the US-led military campaign against Islamic State, said the downing of the Russian jet would not impact its operations.

*"This is an incident between the Russian and the Turkish governments. It is not an issue that involves the (US-led coalition operations)," Warren told a Pentagon briefing, via video-conference from Baghdad*. - Sky


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## cabatli_53

SiCiSi said:


> You do realize we have the most advanced Anti air missile system in the world right?




I don't give a flying f@ck to what you have or not. If a mission is given, You will face to it sooner or later ! You will learn How Turks act in such conditions ! The people Who has some simple history knowledge, will tell you What I am talking about. If you don't have a border with Mediterranean, It is about Turkey's military tradition and strength to rule own region... Either respect or face it !

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## simple Brain

I can understand the Turkey stand in Syria conflict, they are worried about millions of things, but their are lots of evidence that Turkey was indeed up until last Wednesday was buying Crude oil from ISIS. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, US and several other country's support for ISIS is out of question. But what Turkey did today, was completely unprofessional. Though I know US backed it very much, but it won't help Turkey a bit. Turkish are our brothers and I respect them as I respect rest of the Muslims, but it ain't about Turkey and Turkish People, its about Erdogan speaking and behaving Obamanism. When we Muslims are gonna learn that its not about us its about them using us.

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## Serpentine

Yenikuyu said:


> TOW program is run via CIA vetting in multiple countries, and the TOWS are bought by KSA.
> And TOW program is limited to vetted gunners/groups.



And they are brought to Syria from where? Yep, Turkish border. Genius answer indeed.

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## madmusti

Lure said:


> Dış politika veya iç politika diye bir şey mi kaldı? Eğer yapılan hareketler maceraperest bir şekilde Türkiye'nin geleceğini tehlikeye atmaksa vatana ihanettir. Kimse kusura bakmasın bugün burada yapılan delikanlılık değil itliktir. Aynısı benim ülkeme yapılsa savaş naraları atıyor olurdum burada. Dua edin Ruslar biraz daha medeni çıktı.
> 
> Kendi geleceği veya ihtirası için ülkesinin geleceğini satan insan haindir. Savunulacak bir tarafı yoktur. Vatanınızı adam gibi sevmesini öğrenin önce.




Bence bazı şeyleri gör Artık, Bu düşünce sadece biryere kadar, Uçağı vuran Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri, bak başinda "Türk" yaziyor , ne Turk yaziyor nede Osmanlı.
*
Benim Irkım, ya senin neyin ? *


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## Gibbs

BREAKING: A US military spokesman says the plane was shot down "at the border" but could not confirm whether it was on the Turkish or Syrian side. - Sky

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## GBU-28

I think with the murder of the pilots by rebels allied to Turkey, that this means Russia may react politically or economically.

I see one of the biggest tourism companies in Russia has halted all bookings to Turkey.

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## Random111

Serpentine said:


> And they are brought to Syria from where? Yep, Turkish border. Genius answer indeed.



True, same with Jordan.
But your initial comment made it seem as if we're the guys flooding them with TOWS directly from our own stocks.


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## GBU-28

Gibbs said:


> BREAKING: A US military spokesman says the plane was shot down "at the border" but could not confirm whether it was on the Turkish or Syrian side. - Sky



Nice bit of fence sitting there by the Americans.

Obama's administration is so useless.

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## alaungphaya

Gibbs said:


> The US says it will continue airstrikes in Syria "as planned".
> 
> US Army Colonel Steve Warren, a spokesman for the US-led military campaign against Islamic State, said the downing of the Russian jet would not impact its operations.
> 
> *"This is an incident between the Russian and the Turkish governments. It is not an issue that involves the (US-led coalition operations)," Warren told a Pentagon briefing, via video-conference from Baghdad*. - Sky



What a weak response. Obama is just kicking the can on this if it's true. He'll have to figure out a way to slap Erdogan down whilst trying to save his face. He'll need some time for that.

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## Lure

The world should ask this basic question. How many times more the World tolerate radical Islam?

If same level of tolerance was shown to Nazis all Europe was discussing if Southern French was "white enough" to be Aryan by now. Just tell me do the people of the world see any difference between Nazism and radical Islam? And if so please enlighten me.


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## Serpentine

Sinan said:


> And Turkey isn't being ruled by dictator whom levels it's cities with barrel bombs.



That's what happens when terrorists take your cities and take shelter inside your homes.

This is Silvan, Turkey, try to justify that.

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## Hakan

SiCiSi said:


> I doubt a Turkish jet will even think of entering Syria for fear of retaliation. After all, just our s300 can take out your entire air force and then some. Let alone the S400.
> 
> You can perform a few stunts from time to time but you really need to understand where the balance of power lies.


Balance of power in Syria lies with Turkey. You can't send a significant amount of supplies to Syria and support a long term operation without going through the bosphorus. Turkey has more potential to establish air, naval and land superiority in the Syria theater than Russia can. In war it is about who has the most troops and capabilities in the area of interest not about who has more troops somewhere far away from the battle zone.

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## Rukarl

Yenikuyu said:


> True, same with Jordan.
> But your initial comment made it seem as if we're the guys flooding them with TOWS directly from our own stocks.


You are doing much worse stuff like keeping the borders wide open for ISIS.

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## United




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## -SINAN-

SiCiSi said:


> I doubt a Turkish jet will even think of entering Syria for fear of retaliation. After all, just our s300 can take out your entire air force and then some. Let alone the S400.
> 
> You can perform a few stunts from time to time but you really need to understand where the balance of power lies.


Like i said before, we are not entering Syrian airspace for a long time now. You don't know about anything in Syria yet talk and talk and talk..... 

Also, you know nothing about Tuaf's capabilities, the measurements we developed for S-300 when Greece bought and placed them on their Islands.

So, please spare me from future discussions.

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## Serpentine

Full Moon said:


> It is amazing how Iranian members are all in one side trying to find the lost justice for Russia .



Even more amazing? How you have been trying since page one to make it about Iranians, your regular obsession, while all Iranians have ignored you.  

There is no 'lost justice' here, it's all about exposing the true face of Muslim Brotherhood group ruling Turkey, be it a Russian plane or anyone else's

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## kollang

cabatli_53 said:


> Dude, You are making too much sound thanks to 12 fighter, a few tanks next to our borders. Destroying all your rusty Black sea fleet + Syrian troops will take just a day for Turkey Army. You also know it very well. Either respect our borders, or You will receive such hard responses !


All right all right

And the next day your "Turkey army" can march into Moscow and the day after it, you will enter Tehran and finally you will save your ighour brothers (what the hell was the name of your Turkic brothers in China?) from chinese at the last day. 

Someone must stop selling you drugs

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## jhungary

Maybe it's time for some cool headed look on the story, shall we?

First of all, this incident is basically depending on whether or not the shot down is justified?

The first thing not many people know is that even the jet is shot down in Syria airspace, the shooting can still be justified by Turkey as per international law.

Scenario 1 ) The inherit right of self-defence, even with the aircraft physically located within Syria, if and had the Russian aircraft engage or gain target lock to the Turkish aircraft, couple with the fact that the Russian aircraft did penetrate inside Turkish airspace prior to engagement (can be seen as hostile action) there are inherit right for the Turkish F-16 to shoot down the Su-24. Had the Su-24 missile lock on the F-16.

Scenario 2) The F-16 could have engaged target HH038-180 (Still located within Turkish airspace) but the missile (AIM-120C) hit HH037-203 instead, it's not uncommon for Passive radar missile (such as AIM-120C) to lose radar track and reacquire a new target. Had HH038-180 fire countermeasure the moment the F-16 launch their AIM-120, it can fool the missile to lose track and they will acquire a new (And only apparent target - HH037-203) and while the missile had already fired, the pilot cannot do anything about it.







This is the Turkish supplied Flight Radar image on the shoot down.

The Russia had not supplied any evidence on the flight path of their jet, so comment on Russia angle is not available.

I would look at all the fact before charging anyone's fault on the incident

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## cabatli_53

Economic superpower said:


> Russia will wipe Turkey off the map kid. Turkish military is a joke with a bunch of F-16. You got nothing else boy.
> 
> Say goodbye to Turkey.




In your dreams boy. I think You suppose the wars as computer games and In your brain, The Favorite weapon has additional kill point and the nations who has such overkill points, will announce their victories ? Come to real World !

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## Lure

madmusti said:


> Bence bazı şeyleri gör Artık, Bu düşünce sadece biryere kadar, Uçağı vuran Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri, bak başinda "Türk" yaziyor , ne Turk yaziyor nede Osmanlı.
> *
> Benim Irkım, ya senin neyin ? *



Benim ordum sadece benim milletimin çıkarı adına savaşıyorsa millidir ve Türktür. Eğer birileri orduyu arapperest politikalar doğrultusunda maceraya sürüklüyorsa o ordunun ne milliliği kalır ne Türklüğü. Kusura bakma milli ve Türk olan ordu Balyoz davası ile bitirildi. Şimdiki padişahın oyuncağı olmuş nizam-ı cedid oluyor artık. 

Bir ordu kendi ülkesinin kuruluş felsefesinin dışına çıkmaz. Rica ediyorum sizler artık görün bir şeyleri. Bu adamlar her şeyi kullanıyor anlamıyor musunuz? Dün dini kullananlar ve milliyetçiliği ayaklar altına alanlar bugün Etiler'de bar ziyareti yapıp milliyetçiliği kullanıyor. Bunlar güç için her şeyi yaparlar. Siz bunları görün lütfen!


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## SiCiSi

Sinan said:


> Like i said before, we are not entering Syrian airspace for a long time now. You don't know about anything in Syria yet talk and talk and talk.....
> 
> Also, you know nothing about Tuaf's capabilities, the measurements we developed for S-300 when Greece bought and placed them on their Islands.
> 
> So, please spare me from future discussions.



lol, you really think your little airforce is no match for S300 andS400 systems.

Well thats what I get for talking to a kid who just got done playing call of duty and thinks he understand war.

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## Great Sachin

Turkey must apologize before Russia punish them

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## alaungphaya

oproh said:


> I expect that in the coming hours erdogan will realize how his beloved country is on the verge of being brought back to stone age era, that's why he will cry on his knees while humbly asking for forgiveness from Putin.



He's too stupid for that. He will posture like a buffoon while putting the decision down to his PM. The chest beating islamist idiots will jump to his tune and beat their chests into oblivion.

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## Beast

Even the American has no ball to down a Russian warplane and the Turkey dare to shot it down? Well done Turkish cowboy, now Putin is rage and NATO, US are scared the hell out of Putin. First thing Turkish do after down a Russian warplane is to run to NATO. LOL..

Putin say Turkey act is an stab of back of Russian.

Good luck Turkey!

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## fox 2

Lure said:


> Dış politika veya iç politika diye bir şey mi kaldı? Eğer yapılan hareketler maceraperest bir şekilde Türkiye'nin geleceğini tehlikeye atmaksa vatana ihanettir. Kimse kusura bakmasın bugün burada yapılan delikanlılık değil itliktir. Aynısı benim ülkeme yapılsa savaş naraları atıyor olurdum burada. Dua edin Ruslar biraz daha medeni çıktı.
> 
> Kendi geleceği veya ihtirası için ülkesinin geleceğini satan insan haindir. Savunulacak bir tarafı yoktur. Vatanınızı adam gibi sevmesini öğrenin önce.


Bunun politikayla alası yok koçum. Tayyip her şeyi berbat etmiş olabilir ama bununla ne alakası var ? Ruslar 1 ay önce bir daha olmayacak diye özür diledi mi dilemedi mi ? Ne konuşuyorsun saçma saçma ?


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## -SINAN-

Serpentine said:


> That's what happens when terrorists take your cities and take shelter inside your homes.
> 
> This is Silvan, Turkey, try to justify that.



Terrorists set off some explosives in the south-eastern town of Silvan.... so, what ? What am i supposed to justify..... terrorist actions ?

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## SiCiSi

oproh said:


> I expect that in the coming hours erdogan will realize how his beloved country is on the verge of being brought back to stone age era, that's why he will cry on his knees while humbly asking for forgiveness from Putin.



They dont realize that we have entire divisions of Paramilitary forces who specialize in ruining people's days. Bombings, shootings etc. We can easily arrange those anywhere in the world.

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## madmusti

Serpentine said:


> That's what happens when terrorists take your cities and take shelter inside your homes.
> 
> This is Silvan, Turkey, try to justify that.




This has only just happened because Turkey tryed an Peacefull way and give even Murders a Chance, yes we have this tolerance ? Are you don´t Argue with that Turkey has this tolerance ? Maybe yes maybe not but this decision was a Mistake, those Pictures are showing that, but firstly we have choosed the Way of the Humanity, it´s always our Enemies who are breaking the Rules, i just don´t even to need say more about this, go and look at the History.


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## Hakan

Serpentine said:


> That's what happens when terrorists take your cities and take shelter inside your homes.
> 
> This is Silvan, Turkey, try to justify that.


PKK are digging ditches and planting mines in the ditches in civilian areas which is why the area is blown up. Try to justify that.

Find me 1 video where Turkish Security forces are bombing in cities. You will not find any because they are using small arms where as the terrorists are using RPGs and explosives. You can see pictures of that. You can also see pictures of captured explosives.

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## SiCiSi

Beast said:


> Even the American has no ball to down a Russian warplane and the Turkey dare to shot it down? Well done Turkish cowboy, now Putin is rage and NATO, US are scared the hell out of them. First time Turkish do after down a Russian warplane is to run to NATO. LOL..
> 
> Putin say Turkey act is an stab of back of Russian.
> 
> Good luck Turkey!



We dont rage. Thats what arabs and turks do.

We think of every possible outcome and take calculated steps. That's why we are always ahead of the curve and control the situation.

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## BDforever

let me tell you what gonna happen, Russia will shot down Turkish plane with SAM within Turkish airspace near border lol

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## 500

SiCiSi said:


> You do realize we have the most advanced Anti air missile system in the world right?


Self declared most advanced missile system. Fixed for u. 

Do you realize that with SOM missiles Turkey can destroy virtually every target in Syria without even entering its airspace?

Do you realize that if Turkey closes Bosporus, Assad will run out of resources in less than half year?

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## JonAsad

Did someone said good bye Pakistan when we started to shoot down the then USSR war planes in 80s? -

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## BDforever

JonAsad said:


> Did someone said good bye Pakistan when we started to shoot down the then USSR war planes in 80s? -


Saudi amir is here ! !


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## SiCiSi

500 said:


> Self declared most advanced missile system. Fixed for u.
> 
> Do you realize that with SOM missiles Turkey can destroy virtually every target in Syria without even entering its airspace?
> 
> Do you realize that if Turkey closes Bosporus, Assad will run out of resources in less than half year?



Oh great, we needed a comedy break away from this serious discussion.

Please post some more comments and make us laugh.

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## Lure

zenmastera said:


> Bunun politikayla alası yok koçum. Tayyip her şeyi berbat etmiş olabilir ama bununla ne alakası var ? Ruslar 1 ay önce bir daha olmayacak diye özür diledi mi dilemedi mi ? Ne konuşuyorsun saçma saçma ?



6 saniye kaldı diyorum Türk hava sahasında anlamıyor musun? Ucuz delikanlılık yapmayın. Dünyada 6 saniye için kimse uçak düşürmez. Düşürülseydi bugün 50 kere 3. Dünya Savaşı çıkardı. Bu senin yaptığın komşun gürültü yaptı diye ona bıçak çekmeye benzer. Altında başka bir konu veya niyet yoksa yapılan şeye aşırı tepki vermek denir. Bu bıçağı sen bir kere çekersin, iki kere çekersin, üçüncüde elinden alıp artık gerekeni yaparlar sana. 

Bir şeyleri göze almadan kimse boş yere rüzgar yapmayacak. Bugün olan olayda da ortada rüzgar yapılacak bir mevzu yok. Ruslar IŞİD'i vuruyor diye bizim halife bozuldu Rus uçağını düşürttürdü. Olan olay bundan farklı değil. Senin ülkenin geleceği orada iki tane arap eşikyası yüzünden heba ediliyor sen burada sevinç çığlıkları atıyorsun. Pes gerçekten pes.


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## Blue Marlin

all of this is very overblown. there will be no escalation and russia and turkey will not talk for about a few months and thats it. its not worth escalation due to a downing of a jet. i think that tuaf thought it was a syrain jet rather than it was a russain jet. i do like turkey and how fast the country has developed, but what they are doing now in syria is hypocritical. its like they want another libya. also im reading posts here and why is iran brought into this? 
im with russia and iran with this one. who wants another libya or iraq?

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## Saurabh jindals

Oublious said:


> Twink twice before fly above Turkish soil, listen carefully.


US dumps Allie Turkey , Says not involved in drowning of Russian jet |
America on the back of whome you were jumping already through you down in front of Russia same way in 1971 happened with Pakistan . God save Turkey. I can only do this for you ....

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## Beast

Economic superpower said:


> Turkey is finished.


I bet during Turkey meeting with NATO leader , that will be UK, France and Germany which they ask Turkey to apologize and compensate Russia. They will tell Turkey they will not fight for Turkish in case Russia attack Turkey.

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## The-king

Great Sachin said:


> Turkey must apologize before Russia punish them


Russia should apologize before more jets taste the dirt.


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## arbit

KAL-EL said:


> The mature rational folks here know there will be no nuking anyone. Many of the belligerent nuke comments come from the usual PDF keyboard warriors.



Beware my capitalistic - a source of all that is evil- friend. Being too rational will cause you to be nuked by chinese super powered key board warriors. 
Of course after they have made Russia nuke Turkey.


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## JonAsad

BDforever said:


> Saudi amir is here ! !


Wars dont start over a downed plane- Period

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## kollang

cabatli_53 said:


> I don't give a flying f@ck to what you have or not. If a mission is given, You will face to it sooner or later ! You will learn How Turks act in such conditions ! The people Who has some simple history knowledge, will tell you What I am talking about. If you don't have a border with Mediterranean, It is about Turkey's military tradition and strength to rule own region... Either respect or face it !


Come on... You are an internet warrior of your strrronk imaginary turkic union, you feel no fear of course thus you shouldnt give a ****. However it doesnt suggest your air force personals shouldnt fear too.

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## cabatli_53

kollang said:


> Come on... You are an internet warrior of your strrronk imaginary turkic union, you feel no fear of course thus you shouldnt give a ****. However it doesnt suggest your air force personals shouldnt fear too.




An Iranian who spend all her life with propaganda tools are talking about other's capabilities ? Dude, you should better shut up !!

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## xenon54 out

Can mods clear the thread from Chinese posts so we wont have 60 pages of BS?

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## KingWest

For non-Turkish members:

TRT WORLD - Canlı İzle - TRT

Trt in english , its about the shot russian plane


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## The-king

SiCiSi said:


> They dont realize that we have entire divisions of Paramilitary forces who specialize in ruining people's days. Bombings, shootings etc. We can easily arrange those anywhere in the world.


In dreamz only Russia is no more super power for example what happen today they should understand they are Russian only drink vodka just chill nothing going to happen.


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## madmusti

Lure said:


> Benim ordum sadece benim milletimin çıkarı adına savaşıyorsa millidir ve Türktür. Eğer birileri orduyu arapperest politikalar doğrultusunda maceraya sürüklüyorsa o ordunun ne milliliği kalır ne Türklüğü. Kusura bakma milli ve Türk olan ordu Balyoz davası ile bitirildi. Şimdiki padişahın oyuncağı olmuş nizam-ı cedid oluyor artık.
> 
> Bir ordu kendi ülkesinin kuruluş felsefesinin dışına çıkmaz. Rica ediyorum sizler artık görün bir şeyleri. Bu adamlar her şeyi kullanıyor anlamıyor musunuz? Dün dini kullananlar ve milliyetçiliği ayaklar altına alanlar bugün Etiler'de bar ziyareti yapıp milliyetçiliği kullanıyor. Bunlar güç için her şeyi yaparlar. Siz bunları görün lütfen!



Bizler herşeyin farkindayız ama İngilizce kullanarak öteki Köpeklere yem atmana karsıyız, zatem Türkiyenin Dış politikada Resmi iyice çizildi.


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## fox 2

Lure said:


> 6 saniye kaldı diyorum Türk hava sahasında anlamıyor musun? Ucuz delikanlılık yapmayın. Dünyada 6 saniye için kimse uçak düşürmez. Düşürülseydi bugün 50 kere 3. Dünya Savaşı çıkardı. Bu senin yaptığın komşun gürültü yaptı diye ona bıçak çekmeye benzer. Altında başka bir konu veya niyet yoksa yapılan şeye aşırı tepki vermek denir. Bu bıçağı sen bir kere çekersin, iki kere çekersin, üçüncüde elinden alıp artık gerekeni yaparlar sana.
> 
> Bir şeyleri göze almadan kimse boş yere rüzgar yapmayacak. Bugün olan olayda da ortada rüzgar yapılacak bir mevzu yok. Ruslar IŞİD'i vuruyor diye bizim halife bozuldu Rus uçağını düşürttürdü. Olan olay bundan farklı değil. Senin ülkenin geleceği orada iki tane arap eşikyası yüzünden heba ediliyor sen burada sevinç çığlıkları atıyorsun. Pes gerçekten pes.


Birader Rusya Türkiye angajman kuralları değişti diyorum sen okuma özürlü müsün ? 2 defa girmiş adam üstelik. Ayrıca sınırın dışından kilit atmadığı ne malum ? Pilotlarımız sınıra 15 km ötedeyken uyarmaya başlamış Rus uçağını, buna rağmen 2 defa 4 km içerden geçmiş. Bu ne demek ? Sen kimsin ulan demek. 

Burada herkes Tayyipin ne yaptığını biliyor. Işidi desteklediğini de biliyoruz. Bunu içimiz de halletmeliyiz. Rusya demokrasi için müdahale ediyorum dese memnun olursun sen. Bu kadar rezillik olmaz yahu.


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## Rasengan

SpArK said:


> Its not at all an issue of sovereignty.
> 
> Russia are fighting a war for the better good of the world and all of the people knows they are trying to eliminate ISIS from the face of the earth. There is no place for a sovereignty on occasions like it.
> 
> Downing the plane *is an excuse to create a confrontation with NATO and Russia over the issue*.
> 
> Its sad that Turkey is up to childish antics.
> 
> *You will reap what you saw.*



1) Syria under Assad was one of the major reasons why ISIS became an influential player in Iraq, when he allowed them to organize training camps within his territory along the border. The Frankenstein monster decided to repay them back in kind and evidently the result can be seen in front of us. This does not exclude the Saudi's, American's and Iranians who should also be blamed for the current climate in the Middle East. 
2) The events in Syria would never have occurred in the first place, if Assad simply accepted political reform which he promised for a number of years. Instead he utilized the full might of his military machine to murder and torture innocent civilians, forcing units within the Syrian Army to rebel against the state. 
3) The Russians have initiated a bombing campaign in Syria, however most of their intended targets are FSA and to be frankly honest with you they have barely touched ISIS. This particular case is a prime example where the Russian fighter plane was roaming a region held by FSA. 
4) Every sovereign nation has the legal right under international law to protect its borders. 
5) Bombing a country will never resolve the issue, until a political objective is set forward and this is severely lacking in all parties involved in Syria and Iraq.


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## spinghar

any Russian misadventure would cost them heavily and may end up in bigger humiliation. don't understand why banglo, Chinese and Persian trying to kiss putin do they expect a pony ride from putin?
we should stand with turkish. it was a principal shot.

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## Ice Cube

Yenikuyu said:


> TOW program is run via CIA vetting in multiple countries, and the TOWS are bought by KSA.
> And TOW program is limited to vetted gunners/groups.


"vetted" my azz, those guys just either get run over by hardened jihadists or turn their weapons over voluntarily and join forces with qaeda etc, the US knows full well this is what's happening, they're knowingly arming the enemy.

and sorry to say but it's clear that Turkey has not only been arming terrorists but in fact financing ISIS by their blood oil purchases over the black market, and feeling the bad pinch of global efforts against the jihadi oil infra, they struck here.. with Russia, you're punching way above your weight, wont stop the bear from ripping you apart even from right under the NATO skirt.

U.S.-trained Syrian rebels gave equipment to Nusra: U.S. military| Reuters
US-trained Division 30 rebels 'betray US and hand weapons over to al-Qaeda's affiliate in Syria' - Telegraph
Advanced U.S. Weapons Flow to Syrian Rebels - WSJ
"Supplies of Antitank Missiles Will Test Whether Fighters Can Keep Arms Out of Extremist Hands" **

*



*




Putin is right, Turkey are accomplices of terror, Erdogan's plans of a borderless muslim brotherhood jihadi wonderland along the Syrian border have failed.

Putin calls Turkey 'accomplices of terrorists' after Russian jet shot down - live updates | World news | The Guardian

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## SiCiSi

Economic superpower said:


> I really hope Russia bombs Turkey.
> 
> It's about time that state sponsor of terror lost millions of their people. Turks need to suffer.



We dont need to do anything. Turkey is on its way to become another Pakistan on its own. Thats what you get when you sleep with jihadis.

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## Hakan



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## Hurshid Celebi

KingWest said:


> For non-Turkish members:
> 
> TRT WORLD - Canlı İzle - TRT
> 
> Trt in english , its about the shot russian plane



BREAKING NEWS, Russian Pilots are alive and will be delivered in some hours to Turkish Forces from FSA !



Hurshid Celebi said:


> BREAKING NEWS, Russian Pilots are alive and will be delivered in some hours to Turkish Forces from FSA, They will be treated as guests until they are delivered to Russia !



@T-123456


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## Beast

xenon54 said:


> Can mods clear the thread from Chinese posts so we wont have 60 pages of BS?


You must be embarrassed of the reality that turkey needs to stand up alone over its foolishness. 

NATO will watched you roasted or apologize to Russia.

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## The-king

Turkish mods should take action against the trolls.
@Hakan @cabatli_53

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## Random111

Ice Cube said:


> "vetted" my azz,
> 
> Putin calls Turkey 'accomplices of terrorists' after Russian jet shot down - live updates | World news | The Guardian



Nah dude, there were only 2-3 instances where jihadists like Nusra used TOWS in the sense that they were present when it was being launched. They also stole a few after they wrecked the US-backed SRF which was led by the warlord Maarouf (whom had secret mass graves with people he killed!).

Program is run by CIA.


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## BDforever

JonAsad said:


> Wars dont start over a downed plane- Period

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## Hakan

Beast said:


> You must be embarrassed of the reality that turkey needs to stand up alone over its foolishness.


Turks already know to do that.


The-king said:


> Turkish mods should take action against the trolls.
> @Hakan @cabatli_53


No power here, only in Turk section.

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## fox 2

Beast said:


> I bet during Turkey meeting with NATO leader , that will be UK, France and Germany which they ask Turkey to apologize and compensate Russia. They will tell Turkey they will not fight for Turkish in case Russia attack Turkey.


No we' ll just show radar track to NATO.


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## Hurshid Celebi

Hakan said:


> We should all have the same one. I thought the erdogan hurkus one would be funny but the one below is better for everyone.
> 
> 
> View attachment 274485



MISSION completed

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## Beast

zenmastera said:


> No we' ll just show radar track to NATO.


They don't care. They just don't want to stand up for small turkey against mighty Russia.

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## Hurshid Celebi

*Breaking News , Russian Pilots are alive and will be delivered from FSA to Turkish Military in some hours and treated as guests, before delivering to Russian authorities !*

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## nForce

Now Russia will deploy their SAM missiles and will eagerly wait for the next F-16 to take off.

This was silly. There was entirely no reason to escalate the issue this far. Fringing into airspace happens sometimes. That does not mean Russia was trying to threaten or attack Turkey. Turkey could have made it a diplomatic issue, if they have any problem with killing ISIS terrorists. They could have escorted the Russian jet out of their airspace, fired warning shots from their cannons, that's how it is done normally.
Why did they have to shoot it down ? That is extreme hostile action, something that is done when at least one party is convinced it is an act of deliberate aggression.

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## The-king

Indian / russian trolls remeber this person

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## Hurshid Celebi

Hamit Gül -

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## The-king

nForce said:


> Now Russia will deploy their SAM missiles and will eagerly wait for the next F-16 to take off.
> 
> This was silly. There was entirely no reason to escalate the issue this far. Fringing into airspace happens sometimes. That does not mean Russia was trying to threaten or attack Turkey. Turkey could have made it a diplomatic issue, if they have any problem with killing ISIS terrorists. They could have escorted the Russian jet out of their airspace, fired warning shots from their cannons, that's how it is done normally.
> Why did they have to shoot it down ?


They warned Russian many times before now luck ran out for Russians, Turks have right to defend their air space.

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## Random111

Hurshid Celebi said:


> *Breaking News , Russian Pilots are alive and will be delivered from FSA to Turkish Military in some hours and treated as guests, before delivering to Russian authorities !*



How bro, there are vids/pics online showing them dead?


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## farhan_9909

SiCiSi said:


> We dont need to do anything. Turkey is on its way to become another Pakistan on its own. Thats what you get when you sleep with jihadis.



Turkey and Pakistan situation is similar(syria/afghanistan) but Pakistan made few mistakes in b/w,i hope they don't repeat it.

At the end of the day,Pakistan is the only country having defeated a true islamist terrorist organization

Is Pakistan on its way to becoming the first country to defeat a large scale Islamist insurgency?

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## SiCiSi

nForce said:


> Now Russia will deploy their SAM missiles and will eagerly wait for the next F-16 to take off.
> 
> This was silly. There was entirely no reason to escalate the issue this far. Fringing into airspace happens sometimes. That does not mean Russia was trying to threaten or attack Turkey. Turkey could have made it a diplomatic issue, if they have any problem with killing ISIS terrorists. They could have escorted the Russian jet out of their airspace, fired warning shots from their cannons, that's how it is done normally.
> Why did they have to shoot it down ? That is extreme hostile action, something that is done when at least one party is convinced it is an act of deliberate aggression.



Turks are over reactive and easy to read. WE know they will go into a rage and start acting silly so we can plan for it. 

Its like playing with a cat with a laser pointer. We can make them do exactly what we want. 

Now we close down Syria airspace and give the Kurds ample room to expand. 

Easy.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Yenikuyu said:


> How bro, there are vids/pics online showing them dead?



For sure, the killed are Russian CSAR commados who fighted FSA and Türkmens.

Russian Pilots will be delivered to TSK in some hours. Breaking news on NTV 

@Yenikuyu

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## Hakan

There is no miscalculation in defending your own borders. If a criminal breaks the lock on your door and comes into your house after reading a sign that says not to come in are you not going to defend your home against that person?

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## Saurabh jindals

Beast said:


> I bet during Turkey meeting with NATO leader , that will be UK, France and Germany which they ask Turkey to apologize and compensate Russia. They will tell Turkey they will not fight for Turkish in case Russia attack Turkey.


There is something very serious going on Putin is going to meet Jorden King Abdhulla informing about the punishment Russia decided for Turkey and US also got away sensing problem.

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## nForce

The-king said:


> They warned Russian many times before now luck ran out for Russians, Turks have right to defend their air space.


I'm fully aware of the chain of events., just went through the details.

When the bogey does not respond, then the norm is you scramble your own jets and chase him off. Then you fire warning shots. Shooting it down is well within their rights, no question about it if the hostile aircraft is violating their airspace.

But then, one has to think about the repercussions. This could have been handled diplomatically much easily.

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## Lure

zenmastera said:


> Birader Rusya Türkiye angajman kuralları değişti diyorum sen okuma özürlü müsün ? 2 defa girmiş adam üstelik. Ayrıca sınırın dışından kilit atmadığı ne malum ? Pilotlarımız sınıra 15 km ötedeyken uyarmaya başlamış Rus uçağını, buna rağmen 2 defa 4 km içerden geçmiş. Bu ne demek ? Sen kimsin ulan demek.
> 
> Burada herkes Tayyipin ne yaptığını biliyor. Işidi desteklediğini de biliyoruz. Bunu içimiz de halletmeliyiz. Rusya demokrasi için müdahale ediyorum dese memnun olursun sen. Bu kadar rezillik olmaz yahu.



@madmusti 

Kardeş sende okuma özrü var herhalde anlamıyorsun. Senin tanımladığın angajman kuralı zaten başlı başına adamı tehdit etmek ve işini zorlaştırmak için. Amerika Irak'ı işgal ettiğinde senin ülkenin hava sahasını kaç kere izin istemeden kullandı? Senin ülkene füze düştü oğlum füze, hatırlıyorsun değil mi? Senin ülkenin askerinin kafasına çuval geçirildi Süleymaniye'de. Ne yaptın o zaman Amerika'ya karşı? Onlar sana sen kimsin ulan demediler mi? Niye onlara karşı bir şey yapılmadı?

Arkadaş sen geç bunları, ben körü körüne bir şey savunmam. Benim sadakatim Laik Türk cumhuriyetinedir. Öncesine veya sonrasına değil. Gerçek vatanseverinde sadakati buna olur. Ordu bunun bir uzantısıdır. Ordu dediğin halifenin emriyle abuk subuk hareketler yapıyorsa kimse onu savunmaz. 

İttihatçılar zamanında padişaha karşı dağa çıkmadılar mı? Senin zihniyette olsalardı aman yabancıya malzeme vermeyelim diye Abdülhamit'in bir tarafını yalamaya devam ederlerdi. Atatürk hakkında padişah ölüm fermanı imzalamadı mı? Senin zihniyetinde olsa Atatürk padişahın sözünden çıkmaz İngilizlerin komutası altına girerdi. 

Gençler geçin bunları. Kötü konuşup yok yere kalp kırmak istemiyorum. Sadakat vatanseverlik değildir. Ülken üzerinde oynanan gerçek oyunları görüp buna göre tavır alabilmek vatanseverliktir. Yeri gelir milletin için devletine karşı gelirsin. Zamanında bunu yapan çok Türk büyüğü ve aydını vardır. Bir tanesi Mustafa Kemaldir. Bugünde gün bu saçmalıkların karşısında olma günüdür yanında olmak değil. Bütün dünya sana IŞİD ile birlikte hareket ediyorsun dediğinde sen etmiyorum diyorsun. Bunun bir anlamı yok. Kimse bunu yemiyor. Dünya asil Türk milletine terörist diyor. Eğer gerçekten bu manyaklardan ayrıysanız bunları savunmaya çalışmayın. Aranıza mesafe koyun, Dünya anlasın en azından aklı başında Türklerinde olduğunu.


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## SiCiSi

farhan_9909 said:


> Turkey and Pakistan situation is similar(syria/afghanistan) but Pakistan made few mistakes in b/w,i hope they don't repeat it.
> 
> At the end of the day,Pakistan is the only country having defeated a true islamist terrorist organization
> 
> Is Pakistan on its way to becoming the first country to defeat a large scale Islamist insurgency?



Yeah not really. The only reason you are not suffering daily suicide bombings now is because you have a PM who resides and has huge business interests in the gulf in exchange for implementing their interests into Pakistan's policies with the main being the closing of the Iran/pak gas pipeline 

As soon as you have someone who actually cares about Pakistan and thinks of moving away from dependence on Gulf oil, you will start suffering the same circumstances as before.

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## Gibbs

Moscow correspondent for The Wall Street Journal:

Russian state news suggesting Turkey is taking revenge for Russian bombing campaign on ISIS oil trade that flows to Turkey.

— Paul Sonne (@PaulSonne)

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## Hakan

SiCiSi said:


> Turks are over reactive and easy to read. WE know they will go into a rage and start acting silly so we can plan for it.
> 
> Its like playing with a cat with a laser pointer. We can make them do exactly what we want.
> 
> Now we close down Syria airspace and give the Kurds ample room to expand.
> 
> Easy.


You are the cat, you have spent so much money on Syria and have combat troops there. Turkey has no combat troops there and has not spent much money except on helping refugees. The military option is normally the last option and your country is using it. Turkey still has a lot of cards to play.

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## SiCiSi

Gibbs said:


> Moscow correspondent for The Wall Street Journal:
> 
> Russian state news suggesting Turkey is taking revenge for Russian bombing campaign on ISIS oil trade that flows to Turkey.
> 
> — Paul Sonne (@PaulSonne)



Pretty sure everyone with a working brain knows this. Turkey is mad we are taking down their IS allies.

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## Indika

nForce said:


> Now Russia will deploy their SAM missiles and will eagerly wait for the next F-16 to take off.
> 
> This was silly. There was entirely no reason to escalate the issue this far. Fringing into airspace happens sometimes. That does not mean Russia was trying to threaten or attack Turkey. Turkey could have made it a diplomatic issue, if they have any problem with killing ISIS terrorists. They could have escorted the Russian jet out of their airspace, fired warning shots from their cannons, that's how it is done normally.
> Why did they have to shoot it down ? That is extreme hostile action, something that is done when at least one party is convinced it is an act of deliberate aggression.


Russians have to simply deploy s-300 or s-400 and keep quiet. Fighting around turkeys airspace is only going to affect their air traffic. Now russia will start whole sale bombing of turkish supply lines to the rebels. Other than nato making a lot of noise nothing will happen.

Turkey should be reminded of crimea where nato was a mute spectator.

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## SiCiSi

Hakan said:


> You are the cat, you have spent so much money on Syria and have combat troops there. Turkey has no combat troops there and has not spent much money except on helping refugees. The military option is normally the last option and your country is using it. Turkey still has a lot of cards to play.



lol

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## Hurshid Celebi

Lure said:


> @madmusti
> 
> Kardeş sende okuma özrü var herhalde anlamıyorsun. Senin tanımladığın angajman kuralı zaten başlı başına adamı tehdit etmek ve işini zorlaştırmak için. Amerika Irak'ı işgal ettiğinde senin ülkenin hava sahasını kaç kere izin istemeden kullandı? Senin ülkene füze düştü oğlum füze, hatırlıyorsun değil mi? Senin ülkenin askerinin kafasına çuval geçirildi Süleymaniye'de. Ne yaptın o zaman Amerika'ya karşı? Onlar sana sen kimsin ulan demediler mi? Niye onlara karşı bir şey yapılmadı?
> 
> Arkadaş sen geç bunları, ben körü körüne bir şey savunmam. Benim sadakatim Laik Türk cumhuriyetinedir. Öncesine veya sonrasına değil. Gerçek vatanseverinde sadakati buna olur. Ordu bunun bir uzantısıdır. Ordu dediğin halifenin emriyle abuk subuk hareketler yapıyorsa kimse onu savunmaz.
> 
> İttihatçılar zamanında padişaha karşı dağa çıkmadılar mı? Senin zihniyette olsalardı aman yabancıya malzeme vermeyelim diye Abdülhamit'in bir tarafını yalamaya devam ederlerdi. Atatürk hakkında padişah ölüm fermanı imzalamadı mı? Senin zihniyetinde olsa Atatürk padişahın sözünden çıkmaz İngilizlerin komutası altına girerdi.
> 
> Gençler geçin bunları. Kötü konuşup yok yere kalp kırmak istemiyorum. Sadakat vatanseverlik değildir. Ülken üzerinde oynanan gerçek oyunları görüp buna göre tavır alabilmek vatanseverliktir. Yeri gelir milletin için devletine karşı gelirsin. Zamanında bunu yapan çok Türk büyüğü ve aydını vardır. Bir tanesi Mustafa Kemaldir. Bugünde gün bu saçmalıkların karşısında olma günüdür yanında olmak değil. Bütün dünya sana IŞİD ile birlikte hareket ediyorsun dediğinde sen etmiyorum diyorsun. Bunun bir anlamı yok. Kimse bunu yemiyor. Dünya asil Türk milletine terörist diyor. Eğer gerçekten bu manyaklardan ayrıysanız bunları savunmaya çalışmayın. Aranıza mesafe koyun, Dünya anlasın en azından aklı başında Türklerinde olduğunu.



Aptal aptal konusma ve kimseye hakaret etme. CAY BAHCESINDE Mete Yarar'in sayfalarca ekledigim analizini oku ve RUS ile Iran Propagandasi yapma . Write also in ENGLSH

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## Random111

Hurshid Celebi said:


> For sure, the killed are Russian CSAR commados who fighted FSA and Türkmens.
> 
> Russian Pilots will be delivered to TSK in some hours. Breaking news on NTV
> 
> @Yenikuyu



Oh, this would be very nice. It would also be a bit of PR for Russia and it would lead them to backtrack a bit. But don't know man, this vid is pretty clear and looks like parachute equipment.

Pics like this are circulating on twitter;

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669140630682083328

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## Serpentine

Hakan said:


> There is no miscalculation in defending your own borders. If a criminal breaks the lock on your door and comes into your house after reading a sign that says not to come in are you not going to defend your home against that person?



I'd like to know your stance also on regular violations of Iran's airspace by TuAF in 90s, with excuse of fighting PKK in northern Iraq. If we had downed a Turkish jet, based on your current post, you would definitely support that, right?

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## The-king

kollang said:


> An uncivilized Turk who thinks his Turkey army can defeat Russian fleet in one day shouldnt tell me that


Don't forget we are with them and THE NATO + USA  l

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## Hurshid Celebi

Yenikuyu said:


> Oh, this would be very nice. It would also be a bit of PR for Russia and it would lead them to backtrack a bit. But don't know man.
> 
> Pics like this are circulating on twitter;
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669140630682083328



Information polluting and propaganda nothing else. As I wrote Russian Commados were engaged from FSA ,

Pilots are alive and transfered to TURKEY


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## Hakan

Serpentine said:


> I'd like to know your stance also on regular violations of Iran's airspace by TuAF in 90s, with excuse of fighting PKK in northern Iraq. If we had downed a Turkish jet, based on your current post, you would definitely support that, right?


If they have no permission then it is fair. Would you support Iran downing the jets if you gave warnings and it happened multiple times? I think you would.

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## The-king

nForce said:


> I'm fully aware of the chain of events., just went through the details.
> 
> When the bogey does not respond, then the norm is you scramble your own jets and chase him off. Then you fire warning shots. Shooting it down is well within their rights, no question about it if the hostile aircraft is violating their airspace.
> 
> But then, one has to think about the repercussions. This could have been handled diplomatically much easily.


How many times you repeat this as per NATO standards 3 times enough then you are free to defend your air space.

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## Saurabh jindals

Is it true Turkey is purchasing ISIS crude oil "black oil" under the nose of US ? and US is for so long searching "WHO IS THE FINANCER OF ISIS" In that case it will be labeled as State financer of Terrorist !!


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## Random111

SiCiSi said:


> Pretty sure everyone with a working brain knows this. Turkey is mad we are taking down their IS allies.



ISIS is XXX km down the road, not present in Latakia. 



Hurshid Celebi said:


> Information polluting and propaganda nothing else. As I wrote Russian Commados were engaged from FSA ,
> 
> Pilots are alive and transfered to TURKEY



Parachute equipment though? And they're CSAR guys from heli, would they have parachute? Hope you're right bro.


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## BLACKEAGLE



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## The-king

Yenikuyu said:


> ISIS is 200 km down the road,
> 
> 
> Parachute equipment though?


May be the old Helo shot down pics from that helo's pilots.


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## Hurshid Celebi

Yenikuyu said:


> ISIS is XXX km down the road, not present in Latakia.
> 
> 
> 
> Parachute equipment though? And they're CSAR guys from heli, would they have parachute? Hope you're right bro.



Russian paratroopers engaged some days ago


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## Hakan

First they said Turkey didn't shoot down the Russian drone last month and that it just crashed. They sad Turkey is too scared of Russia. What now. Turkey shot down a Russian plane.

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## Lure

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Aptal aptal konusma ve kimseye hakaret etme. CAY BAHCESINDE Mete Yarar'in sayfalarca ekledigim analizini oku ve RUS ile Iran Propagandasi yapma . Write also in ENGLSH



Ya senin ve senin gibilerle ucuz polemik içine girmek istemiyorum. Zaten ben buraya yazmam, uzak doğu bölümüne yazarım. Hepte İngilizce yazarım bugün ilk kez Türkçe yazdım ki aramızda halledelim, daha fazla İngilizce tartışılmasın diye.

Ben kimseye hakaret etmedim. Fakat sen herhalde "aptal aptal" demenin hakaret olduğunu bilemeyecek kadar aptalsın ki hem kendin hakaret ediyorsun hemde hakaret etme diyorsun. Bu da ilk hakaretim olmuş olsun bari lafın havada kalmasın.

Neyse benimle daha fazla muhattap olmayın gerçekten benim bunun için ne boş vaktim nede isteğim var. Bunları yazdım ki burada olanlar en azından BİR tane TÜRKÜN terörist ve IŞİD sempatizanı olmadığını anlasınlar.

Burası özgür bir platform. Radikal İslam sempatizanları bile konuşabildiğine göre eminim en azından medeni ve Atatürkçü insanlar konuşma hakkına sahip olur.


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## Rangila

*Turkey warned Russian jet 10 times before shoot-down: US:* The US military has backed up backed up Turkey's claim that its pilots had warned the Russian jet at least 10 times, but never got a response before shooting it down.

"We were able to hear everything that was going on, these (communications) were on open channels," military spokesman Colonel Steve Warren told _AFP_.

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## The-king

Hakan said:


> First they said Turkey didn't shoot down the Russian drone last month and that it just crashed. They sad Turkey is too scared of Russia. What now. Turkey shot down a Russian plane.


turkish and Pakistani pilots best in the world specialy in the cockpit of F-16, shoot like a gangsta

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## Hakan

Rangila said:


> *Turkey warned Russian jet 10 times before shoot-down: US:* The US military has backed up backed up Turkey's claim that its pilots had warned the Russian jet at least 10 times, but never got a response before shooting it down.
> 
> "We were able to hear everything that was going on, these (communications) were on open channels," military spokesman Colonel Steve Warren told _AFP_.


U.S military backs Turkey's story. Thanks for info.

Pentagon backs Turkey's version of events, blames 'incursion' of Russian jet - Washington Times

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## nForce

The-king said:


> How many times you repeat this as per NATO standards 3 times enough then you are free to defend your air space.


hmm ? 3 times ? Can you elaborate on that please ? Some sources ?


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## Serpentine

Hakan said:


> If they have no permission then it is fair. Would you support Iran downing the jets if you gave warnings and it happened multiple times? I think you would.



When there is no hostility between 2 countries, no I wouldn't. I would defenitely support shooting down a Saudi jet or American jet violating Iran's airspace, but not a Turkish one, since this is not how things are handled in the world. I would only support that if Turkey was openly showing hostility towards Iran, otherwise, it would only be escalating things quickly. There are much better ways to counter these incidents. Iran for example, stationed some Mig-29s and Tomcats in Tabriz in 90s and flew regular sorties near Turkish border and after that things cooled down, till now.

Shooting down a jet or killing 2 pilots in such conditions will not win a war for either side or defeating the other, it will just escalate things.

I don't expect you to condemn this incident, but you should accept, the nasty game Erdogan is playing in Syria by supporting terror groups for his own agenda is backfiring every single day, you won't agree with me now, but maybe in 10 years when you look back, you will definitely see it.

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## madmusti

There are some rumors that the Plane was an "SU-34" and not "SU-24" ? Any News links here ?


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## Rangila



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## BLACKEAGLE

Russian little dog:

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## Hurshid Celebi

Lure said:


> Ya senin ve senin gibilerle ucuz polemik içine girmek istemiyorum. Zaten ben buraya yazmam, uzak doğu bölümüne yazarım. Hepte İngilizce yazarım bugün ilk kez Türkçe yazdım ki aramızda halledelim, daha fazla İngilizce tartışılmasın diye.
> 
> Ben kimseye hakaret etmedim. Fakat sen herhalde "aptal aptal" demenin hakaret olduğunu bilemeyecek kadar aptalsın ki hem kendin hakaret ediyorsun hemde hakaret etme diyorsun. Bu da ilk hakaretim olmuş olsun bari lafın havada kalmasın.
> 
> Neyse benimle daha fazla muhattap olmayın gerçekten benim bunun için ne boş vaktim nede isteğim var. Bunları yazdım ki burada olanlar en azından BİR tane TÜRKÜN terörist ve IŞİD sempatizanı olmadığını anlasınlar.
> 
> Burası özgür bir platform. Radikal İslam sempatizanları bile konuşabildiğine göre eminim en azından medeni ve Atatürkçü insanlar konuşma hakkına sahip olur.



Write in English and please stop leftist propaganda hiding under ATATÜRKS Name


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## The-king

nForce said:


> hmm ? 3 times ? Can you elaborate on that please ? Some sources ?


Just google it NATO standard procedures to engage intruders.

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## nForce

The-king said:


> Just google it NATO standard procedures to engage intruders.


I have no idea. Share one.


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## alaungphaya

madmusti said:


> There are some rumors that the Plane was an "SU-34" and not "SU-24" ? Any News links here ?



Have you not seen the very clear pictures and video?


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## The-king

nForce said:


> I have no idea. Share one.


and don't ask further spoon feeding
http://www.nato.int/docu/handbook/2006/hb-en-2006.pdf

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## Random111

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Information polluting and propaganda nothing else. As I wrote Russian Commados were engaged from FSA ,
> 
> Pilots are alive and transfered to TURKEY



Oh yeah, forgot to say, you're 100% right in terms of pollution and propaganda. Russians are notorious for it unfortunately.
Just look at them focusing on the ''10 warnings in 5 mins'' by saying stuff like we couldn't be in Turkish airspace for 5 mins? Then they go why shoot down, is not a threat etc? They've wrecked a lot of English language fora unfortunately.

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQQEhUUEhQVFRQWGBcXGBQUFBYYFRcWFBYXFxgUFBUYHCggGBolGxcUITEhJSkrLi4uFx8zODMsNygtLisBCgoKDg0OGhAQGiwmHCQtLC8sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsNCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLP/AABEIAOEA4QMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAbAAABBQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEAAIDBQYBB//EAEYQAAIBAgQDBQMKBAQEBgMAAAECEQADBBIhMQUTQQYiUWFxMoGRFCNCUnKhscHR8AcVYuEWM4KyksLS8SRDg5Oi4hc1VP/EABkBAAMBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAgMEBf/EACYRAAICAgEEAQQDAAAAAAAAAAABAhESITEDE0FRYSIyQnEUkaH/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AMLlpZadSr1zyjmWnBaVdpgdillpCnCgQ3LSy1JXIoAr+NPksufHT4mD901ddncMUw1saju5j6t3vzrPdpJZUtjdmmPsj+9aTHcQ5eFJA1iB6xEfGsb+tv0jWvoS9sqsIsl3+s5+C90fh99H82d6Gw9vIqr4AD9alFaxVIzltk73z0JimtfO0mmCllqiRhE0TYw6mJn1qICprd6BQAzJ8K6BFczU4UCJxfKiKZzzM0wma5FAE4xjeNS2+IspkHWhRTKAosbnF3Iiff1oJrpqOlQFBdrGldgKseH8aIPe28OlUVIUBRv7PaO2F0M+6hD2pYnu7edY0VIrUqQqNh/iB/EfGlWRmlTpBRV5aWWpctdy0iyLLXctSha6qUARBaltWWf2VLfZBP4UAnEc1whLyYcAxnuIX28GyNl+Aq7s27tyV/mWIuPlVxyrhWyytdFqFeV1DHWRAHWsu7ukadvyxqcIxB2w94+lm5/01OnZvFnbDXv/AG2H4ipbHZe9dQOcTfKklQbmKCgldCFzuJg+FSn+H90/RxD+auzj3MpINGb+AxXyA8N7JYm9iM5sXOWiQGCyM2bvDTrsKJ4r2axLraVcPdbK2a4FQnKdX1A/qj41TcO7LBlN66uIRLlzLbdSpDIWCrcYllYDc9ZFQcA7Otinu3At7k2e5nXPo25DONoEE/aFZ5P+zTFe+C4ucDxK74e+PWzc/ShrmDuL7Vt1+0jD8RR9jsmzf5ZxPj3XubeOnTzqa32axY/y7uOHo901rmzLFFMKflq8HA+Kgdy/jD9u0W/3LrQ2I4XxW3q9u1c6/O4W2pg/1KAeh86O78B2/krctIJURxF0PF60ls9VRzPqEdpHuJ9KMq4yUuCJRcSNbVSC1TlNEW7gBFUQcs4Bm2FFDgze/wBKusBjbcSRHSrK24f2RRYrMYeEv9U1G/C3HQ6+VbZomCRRuCuKNwKTYWYGzwK8+yH3iPxp47P3jpy2n0/OvRX4ki71xOKodqnJ+hnnlzs5fBjISfIafGmXuBXU3U+4fnXpI4iniKccam5ijJ+gPNLXArzbI3wo7DdkbzbwvrvW8biNroRUL8XUUZP0Bk/8FP8AXHwpVpf52tdouQHleWu5aly13LVjIctORdRUmWnIuo9aAKjhWGGd5APebf1q+/lyXEyMJQnNk+hm2zhejRpIoHhtmbjR1Zv9xrRYdF+icw2mCJjyImsktFyk7spv8PIxHMm4qqERWPdRB9FR6kn1Jpy9mA7LasBla4Ssq7KFGViW09Kv1t1nG7WNhMYSqgraOUgnfMAWMekD3mk6SHFykz1MdmTdwLWWdQFtwCR3AFHXy0ry/B8HvYV5W69rEB2LtbaUaTBYqe6wZYOo1mvTeEfxEw2MstkuJbulSFW4YWY2NY35dnNvD5VzYe3DOrZpDMcgzbEBRA12EdKiFt/UXOkvpKVcNiQR/wCLxEDwv3wYGm4ueHlUl3BXYMYrFE/1Yi6R6e1V1kimvbrTFGXcl7MfawJdzbz3Q2puMXM5YACht9Z+ANPudm7I6O32nYifGCa1Ys+lD37NGKKU2ZNeHW0uKFWIdNvAkbedXJWoblv59ftJ/wA36UVVQVEzd0MC09LYPWlFdArQgktDKZqxTiFxdjVYtEW3HUUCCzxFjvqaeOKMNBpQWIIJ0ECuLApCJ2xbMZOtMfiDeMUswim8tfGmA75eR+tNucQdhE6U02V8aY1qgYvlTdNKb8oNcNuuFKAO880qZlrtAEGWuhalyV3JQMhy10LU2SkFoAZwyzFxhP0m/Emr7DWQBtVPwiGvP6n7ia0lq3WY2NyTrEHb+9eU8YKfKsVzVdm5iAOh0GUjmKwnWV08iK9h5WlYjAcPF7H4mzAJz5gD/Uit+ZrOccqRp05Y2wfgv8vv3BauYYLIIS42J5CtoT84SrQZ0BnXSQdTV72dt2WRrti0tpLjsVVXa4Aq91QXbUmF185oDtLgEwqMLqAuAdDtroD570f2Gw5XBWZ+lmf3O7MPuIoxqQ5SuBa8uu8qi0sk7Ca5ytauzIBKeVD37WlWj2aGxbRC5dDpPgf2KVjRmjbHPSTAka+5/wC1OC0RieE57ozZoAJEEDTeTO406VzLVxCREFpwWpMldC1ZA0JTyoroWu5aBDeWKQQU+KVADkwhbb7zXHwwXdh7q5JpsUARstcipctcy0DIiK5lqbLSy0AQ5aVTZaVADMlLJRXLpcugQNkpZKJ5dLl0AN7KYLm4lk0WXYSfU7eJrf4vs21sSssOojUefmK8yxHCFu826ysy2GuMQHyoMpDZrhAmACYhl6+NajsN2rxDm4GjlgpAumCEMgJLd5zqIbYDedJ5puXg6YRi+S5GH6RqNPhWf4dwhhxY34i2LVoE/Wcm4Ao8TCa+GnjW9SzYxJm1eTMwByggjUdI39RWTxFi+2OIS9aGHtpZc94Q1y7cu2gFZZkllVYPUjzqVNMfbcSu/ilYt31AYsrMSA4C5VAjMzlmHdGYExqBmPSrHhmEC2bShSoFtBl8IUDLHlU13G2sS7YdlDctxdJYAwVy5CPAz+FW9jBs/sozDxGg+JquOSfu0ikxIvJHJCGfazkj4QDUy2fHfr61bJw52MKjA9Qw/Paif5Qbavcv3BbRFLMR0VRJZj0AAJ91J9RIF0m/BVphltjM++kLGupABPlJFNXEhGdhaVyupUEZoMjbwkH76h4rw17oR0uC9aYhrbgyG0OoZfbG0RPjQuI4JikDvDSWzd3UiTBELuv4a+dPT8hTXgquJu17EpdIFuE5a2iTBGupy9QDOsySoqvCV27jhcvak5ncET0RV0JPoKI5dbQMpg2Su5KJ5ddFurIBwlLJRPLpZKABslLJROSlkoAGyUslE5KWSgAbJXMlFZK5koAGyUslFcuuZKABslKiclKgBZKXLorl0uXSAFyV3JRPLrvLoApeH422ly/zndE5ogW57xLaq46rCMfdVhb4XauWs1rEXVssHVFDNcuLLS2VHEAtqd9Z1E1juIYn55wF73N2Ya6Gf7eh861WBw1u5hkY3lthN1ufXOypAOZog6Ce8PHTB0zp2jTPgL2ITKMGjKSQLtwkZiphWKoPHvBtdRvXcTh7uHa7duWLKO1hBKMpDGw5ZLjBiCWDFdSSe7RHD+J4iEK3hctrtbFl1XLGguORIPqB6dKgS4cQzOy9zX5tpdVSBEN4kmff76ineyrVaA+wNhFxuYhmGJsFg1wArmtFJK+E5iQD0HUVveKcIW+Bnu3lgaC1fuWhPjFplk+prBrjCuLDrctoIYoEdWKKZMG2dwQJH2TtpVrd4s98octwGQoJfKhBBknouoB13Ej1mcG5WiodRKNNFlhbd+4SjXrjlYVbgDC2Mo1dijrzCwI0Ox9KZwvh95Lga8XujMIW5cVyjd1Q6qIK7AkSY1MGZq7wdxbaBbTKyjQd7U9JJE+WtQ4zFXlAKIpPekb5Qv3nToOvjWdvhI0pctht7CsQ+Vyudco8EIBAKDodfwrI9phiMDhvm77uxzyzSzGZCgZp1zug3gKD0Gmh4fxR7q95BA3YA6wSMuVgpUz4iPCd6wX8VO0AhrYDLFm5BMqeZiLi2AVB9qLfygyOhPhSgmnsqbi1oxPAL3OYXXABZlCjXuqqIiAe5ffmNazl1hezd1TetD6zg7bkKQCZOkEdPKvQ+XXbB6OHq8g/LpcuicldyVoZA/LpcuiclLJSAG5dLl0Ty6WSgAbl1zl0VkpcugAXl0uXRXLpcugAXl1zl0XkrmSgAXl0qKyUqAFy6XLozl0uXSsATl0uXRnLpcuiwPKOPd7Euoj/ADCDlDTm1UgDrIC/E1uuyvDEVlNzNMaCTlBAg5o30jfw61lcL3MfdYakXXMHYEE/2re8DHcA8ANDPUab+RrL2dLfBcYrGsbdtbTQIUBVjaNySJ26abgR1oHAYt1e3admEMoOb2HU7mD1kqNBv5TDcPws3bhJ5gUTBExPiCoBUaNI6yDUGPCpfKW0EgKCpDKoDx7IYZWJyySs7CfNUuAt8llxbGRae3JSSstbDSqk5twYOzCPADx1psVwvEfJw1t1u2skglO+pBHddVaZglgRmEjUCZqa4Dij82oLjRgATOXrl2EgAyNO91itBwlbSBLLQ1yFkKe6mVcoBy9AQB8d4NJukOKtmL4Fdugm7cLWkUoqQlxS89A0QdFfQzqsV6jYUKuYMMjDSREA69RMnw8qkvrFs5AIC5gFI39rSdPAz60BzsozXWKyqtnz92Drl1gCJPr9wycszZQUAu1iROoXT2WJBBka5dI9fWvNP4pYe21xLZmTJAUavcFsm1b2gd67fdidhP1gK1fHrjtZFzDsIBUhoDp7cMYOhMHfpFZjF2VxGIOIZkOSVGv/AJjnKzDWJKW7C/6KqMN2TKeqMBw7Bm1jcIjbgiY8dd49BXp/LrBOZ4tYB2Daf8LGI+Nekcut46s5upugTl13l0Xy67y6qzMFFuly6LFuu8uiwA+XS5dF8uly6LAE5dLl0Zyq5y6LAE5dLl0Xy6XLosATl1zl0Zy6XLosAPl0qL5dKiwHculy6Ky01SDt+BqbHRBy6XKoiKSoxPs6UWFHlBkY+8GG7uRoBIkjSK3PCcSUZLVxCpcEowKsjBZJGZCcpjWDGlZa6rfzG4hWAHYg5Ikk9WjWthw/BmyXuszwVPcksJ6FVMwfIaGdql8G9bB8LjMQty+wuFLFjMoUDUuUDm45O8ZoA2lTNXV7HJi7eVrZFyFMOsDvLm09fDfUVl8Pi35hLAsGb5xUOViJAnIGKtoSJ0nyq1e8XshxaKNmhZcsQEU/WABERsfHypNAnopsPfZLxyFrYa4QyZjovdDL0IEgt7+orR4PAklGtfN4hc5NwFsrd6ChtzlZCqqIOoMEa1mrqfO5nGQuUYZtSZUBQSsZiWknw1HTXSYW7HtSfaAEwSOusGNvCiStBF0wluLXsziCndJKyIViQO4zjTcEAiNTMDWswnFrjuDcMrbae863A5BIDEmD3cw7umxGo1qxv4l2B5jratwQbiq1wgmdGCzp/UfLxrljBAc5LltCts5hdFycxYhg4WIgEqI9POlSQ7bCDxG5ca4M9m1bJEAMF23D5dQwjYeFdXDC3YOVhdKhsrAypAZiFzddz7t6yvE8AgUd9nIOUMxzryz7QZD7JInWZ0Hvlw3CL2DVbmHxFu8lzLCQ4Jta95w2kx4a+op1QuUUnDbbtxa3nAVlaSuhlWtkhlbruNPKvU+XWG4aufjFhBoeXGoM5VRyAZ1GpPwjpp6jc4WQJkUsktMUouW0io5dLl1YfIzE9Ki5dVkZ4got13l0Vy6XLosKBeXS5dFcup8Ngi/kPOk5VyNRbdIruXS5daFeGIBrJ85pp4cmuh+NR3ka/wAeRQculy6tW4aZ3HvoixwxRq2vlsKb6iRK6MmUXLrnLq8xXDwSMkDxpicL01b4Ud1A+jK6Kbl0qt/5Z/UPhSp9xC7UvRR4dXbc/dRnydvCqOy7E65gPQ1ZpivtH3Vo0zJMlGYboac2KIUwII8Kj+Wjwb4VGl+T7J+BqaHZgL4LY+4yWwbmYwSWAMwTKjTedhvWz4vjRh8NzWtlwrWyUG+UuoPXzrIYoXl4hdNgAgtPeXcmM3eDaAa9NdK2YxqnDFr6MFPcZQCZDCJ1AjQ9dj46TLOhEuCw9lrOeyFfm5mzaagxswHdKxoI0qTHWEt2kz3WRQ7FeaVnKfoksdEE+ZHjWUwHaF8MzJbuC4hNspdy6gGQyusav012gzrWuxuKXEG2l21mVlgsbakAuSvslsygkDYGJEnqZd2UqoqL98Ni8gIFi3Cu5yg52VWm2BssOhk/W99GWbli1c0bcGGuZgpIYyqtO+/uorhHZkWDDOzjaTlM6ADZBtvrOtS4fhK8s50zqFbIJM6zsG6x5DUUskGL9GY4vi8OzMrAwSVa4PCJ0ZjLev61V4vGhLhYSQFTvEaMR3iQEMHVh/8ALbepL+AusRs6MVA6+0AM07EEkSB4j0q0u4aQQlstAgkAGInWd8uZtq1MzN4PANiTksME5wALZjlGb6SsBDlgTMeAEk16Fw7g4s2zBcgAIq3ABlyCO6QoO3n0Hhrk+FjkXrdzlsQp7wCsNSsiJheoPu+GpxnH3uowtWWRlOrXZFsAqGGtuSx11UajrFRK7LjVGb4NgrVri1mFbMA4zMwOipc03JI1Hga9KvXl8RXlvC75u8RsO6MjFboIIMBkDqYnoYkHqCK3e+mYfGlKNuyc2lQbZUMcoO+/n6VO2HQaSJ++qk4i2CJcSPMVIMUhYQ4JPvocWJTSXAc2HEaamo1w/mKY96o7eMA8KKYNxChhPOicOcgiZoBr8CSaH+XCd6lxb5GpqO0XfP8AKk94Cqdcb1mu/LQeopdovvlo1ya6l0dapzjwJkiPWoV4kG0BFPtE940IuqetLmiqMYr+pR76lPEEA9r3/wDal2iu+WvOFKqX+Z2/rfcaVPtC741QvRR+/WkgZj5Vk27WYdT/AJzGP6G/6am/x1Yj2z/7bfpW+LOezTtbM6/CpLNosYrHP26tTAdj/wCmafb7a2et3423/JaWDHaKLtHxr5FjrnzZJZjBJhTlUCQY11iYiM29EcS7Yu1pku2rXLYASHctJ17rBe6QwG438esOP4mhxbSc9q6qNDK0SwQh7cjwC93rOu1aBsHbIW6LAvfVbuqAIInOw3BAETv0iYlr2bJmV4DhcLiXyW7vIu3ASLcyGaM3zeogz3iIBMGM2tbzg1jEYdQHLMxYlkAVrbA6ki57Q0IA1nQb1l+Ldl7j3bN7CIohldrV1kTvL3o7vQjf3Ga3PGMAblu3lLLbUE8u2xUdYzdSBJ09NPCJPwWlqyDtRj7mHwr3bS57qwAjElRmIlmE96P0rHcL4ljswuXXYByFysxGYEgQq/QJnTKBG9T3LmMtC4hu5LBJI5qm6xXQBbY5fWJiN56yS/BY5uTcFyyt1s6KjLb5JBZGOZwwEiCBI078U4xpCcrZpbHC0s8xBnuMT3Q8sQpkKqToFGmwkRRd5uUxt27QuZjDl3ImdQvstOhjpXOzcvYkm4hkjI+ZjbIMEqXk7H961N8rTDAm8QWJJJtoxHdAiYkg7RO86dazb8FqPkCvdnrjhSbhtstxLjG0xjLbYPyhbUCZHdkzv1qPtbZxF6yWwbFe42VUOQtcmNyQRAB6T4eNWnBeN28WrG2txCh71u7aNu6J9h8p+i0GCJBykdDR16d5Pu369BE/f7qnJ3svFVo82XDP8ow5vLN7lKLhBE8wW+8Mw6TO3nVzdsKdCmX/AFGfxqPiFv8A8UssSQH10mIj86NTAA6s5HhBFdaejhnyAfy22fpMPQ/rUmGwCoZ5jz5ED8qKbh1sf+Y/xH6Ul4crbM/41WRFEgsKNCzH/XNNOGQa5n9BH6U7+VKOr/EfpXTw8Dqw/Gptex0MtAahmcDpqP0qO9YQ7O494P5V3HCzZE3boSds9xVHoJ3qgvdsMAkjNccj6it+LQPypoKLkYNetx/+IfpT/kdr67n1c/lWeXtvgTsL8/ZXXy9qpG7dYNVlReYiYXJqY23Ma+vwo2GJePZtRAQsfHM5/OpLeAPS3HqP1rNj+JVhYhL5nfRAV0Onta7D41L/APkzCncYgf6U0+Da9fhS2PE1dvBsB7Kg+Jifupl7CeKn3HSs5h/4g4Rt3ur9pCf9oNFntnhCpPP0HTI+Y+gKzS2FIuvk6+FKqr/EmE//AKk/4v7V2jYUeQpiQ2zDXrofwNP5w3ZhA301Pv8AyrP2LWQyC20e14+go+3jSI7imPHNrv7QnXetFItx9Bwxtvo0mOi7VI5AAInWCDHQ9aAHEIH+RZ2iYadPPNTDjWLZsq6/RE5R5AToKdixPRsA6W2sXWyFBYsh0Ml/ZSLgCgkx3pERqNo19C4Zds4izntlHttOqxlgEqQDO+4I8ta8sHBWu28Pftq5dLWGbKl5UVjC9JkaSIjUE0fe4jiwFVmW2mUkphs3dYtIzxBJ3IhjseutYTVm0XR6iUUIIAgABdNddIUHyjQ1T3eFX7ZJw9xUkjOCpZYA1yqdFYyNfD0EZm1zr6omKuW7tmO7cNo52DwctwSEzADRtCcx98+JwUFVtX7qgyO9eRXDQcqpCSV1JyzpHmazUWU5ItOXdW5kuXEFsy13NaNsLorczmMWExG8DzBFFYDiOFuXRZF+ySwfIuz5mOUFC2pMA6de7GgrMtw7E3MjXFW44Yy964W7oYhPmwgVwEhhm1nxOptsF2cXFhxicPhg1twUu2rQXOqwwMiGQjYwdY0OuhJaCPJrMJhgjALcMwJUkxlXuyEJ7uuuaPjNPs2y+YMogER3ic0dWAAjoI60JxDii2F+cjmZJhQQCCYnNBCiZ38PKrCwcyAhiZG8An1jasnfJsq4Ikwy2ZNu2BMAhRBOuh+yCW9Jp5aQTJ11iAY+/XepGIG86nXr069AIFCaWrcgd1F9lACBEkqvjqDvSWxvRi+0GMWxfDkNlyNKgDfMkdfWgk7VWY1R/SF/Wm/xGvFbRuR3yUIDAiJIzArOlecfzm79VP8AhP3613QqjgmrZ6Hc7YJ9C0T9ogD7pqJu2FyO6iL6kn9K89biVw7hfgf1ro4k/gvwP61eicWbh+0GKY/5mX7IWPiZqrxfanEqSq3X6yzEeHT+9Z9eKXPBfD2T+tMbGs26r4bN+tGgUWT3na4c7sWYzLM0knfc7ihyV6/s/prUgxxiMiHzhp/3VEbkzKIZjo2kT7Oum8/Cgo7zUA1JqC7jlB0H5VNA3yL/APL9aiawp+iPXvfrQGiNeJDwE0SGRgJAPjp+tD28IgM5Afe35GilZdPm00n68a/6qNjdeAbEX7dsefgN6q7uPduuUeA395qzu4FGJOWPITG3nTfkCeB+JqWmyk4oqeY3ifiaVW38tTwPxNKpxY8kalex7nwp47F3PKvQFw8UQtqrs57Z5wexdz+mn2+xNw+Hxr0J7NSYexRkO2VHC+D963buaqtpVkEq6MqqO5cWGXbWDBgTtVlxHA4VYN28iNByi41sHQdNi2lcxZYM+ScwQlYIHeUSBrvMEUDY7K4EzcxQN66eru256LAXz/QVjI6I/IIvDA5A+UDESrZktPmQ6ZSCvMiJI0yg6T41qeB8Fw65guUkkFgD9YaLMCBA2HlWH4h2QwKL3OdZj2Qt8lZnfI0zrV1wDtDetnkl7OKMA2mDrzIGp5pDHNCkkEa9OsiZZNFRxs3N20iqFHdAI9nSIOns7CqjjHA1uM11CwvHKVZbzqQQAABl0ggaiPcaqG7T4m3cV7lm0ll2VXud5WRcrfOXJ1hTlmdACfCgrv8AEqy2dcNDhAW511WCjvQO4oB216bDx0zUZJmjlFo2+Gu8xCbqBWkrAIIgaZgSNPQ/fRhGmg+/w6V572X7aviry2r9peW47t1UYBbsEoCGJ9oAwdDOmtbTC8St3SRbdXKsVYIykoRqAwB7vv1qXFlKSJwSWYEEARqT7QIOinpB6GfcKc+gmR06n7pO3lXc2vkD+QMAe/y2qK6dD9+59QJpIGYPtbg+cxToYPvDEn8qyVzs5H7/AA0rdpmGKbmEN3WIOUAAErAgeAom8EP0R8K7YukcM+Tzgdnh+4/Snf4eA6/h+leg2wgPsj4VJkSfZHwq8iNnnR7PikOz48q9Ha0v1R8KaltR0HwpZBs89/w5RGH7Llq3hUeH3UkvZelGQGLHZFvCmt2TYVuBivKuNiD4UZMDAnss/h+/Snr2VueH6VuDdPhTlvmjJgYJuzDj6P3H9KY3Z1x9H9/CvRBePhTjdPhRmB5r/IH+oa7Xo/OPhSoyArbWKmiVuVV4MeNWOYUNCQ57tds4iKgLzUTggCigJrHEUGJZS4mB3CddQNQOtFcVwVvEAZlSVmAwBHeEGfcdx6eVYPtFjLT4k23sLzEVCLuYg6gEaCDp4g1OmJxigci3aYf1Xrs+sMxmsmjpXBqr2FtWbFsXUuXyWyrbXK5yrJHfOyBRqxP3nU3gmIsXWDJae2UjLmnKJBEJBKAxI0MwTWHvcU4pm7uAR16AXZMxqZJGk6xHl51x+M8XA/8A1Y8jmzf81Q2vktJ/H+HovFuH2cXbNu6sjQ5e6QxUmAQRB1J+O9Z692dtYa0wti2qAEEezoREz9IxWW/nfGZ0wTD0Qb+9qfiMfxW8uW5w5iJ1ggdPtRO29C0DTY7G8PXuvzE0buj2iWSCJSQe6chnQjyrccCw9u2quGSSFI5ZJSMpETswEkgx4nrWIt8OxJVWGBxIfYqfk621GuqtzC2bbcR8KsE4BihDWzjRl2tXL1lLZ/pJVmAX/Sap0yUmjfHiKKCMwHX+wA91VfEu0Fq2slxM+Inw1k69TWbGA4s/t3cLa8hbLx5Zs+vrFLE4W9aRi1wXXgwAqqpIH9Kj8TSjFDlJ+zvAeLpjMRca3OVVbUzJ7yiQCBpp94q9Nr1rOfw8vNdxN1GGi2swgDZmQCfPQ+lbW/h4q1LwYzj5Kq3Y1FEcmDU+Ft94TRNy3rNNyISA2SmIlGOBUdqPvpWFEfLqI29aOBFOsWZJ60WOgAWf3pTmtfvSrL5N5fv4UrmH8qWQ8Sq5Wn/ami2aszY8qSYbyp5CxAVU/uKk5f70o9cN5V0WNKWQ8Ss5ZpVY8ilRkGJjVaKkF6gebXRdrejINW7U4uAx5VWqxNS2rLExmCz1J0FIZmO0z20xoJMM1tNZGwEAb+IPSr7g9wEAgqfeKoe3WEs5wtxFvQo+cXz6BhqKy+C4bbDBlzqBqFLFlMbSN4mOorG2nR0JJxtntuAvRMkADqSI+NG4biltzCupPgCJ120PofhXh91zLAk8s/REgehjceRqxF6LaclBbVeiHJJkEEAQB5zIPWlVsrKj21XH7NOkV5xgO25QrzgwJ0Zktg5lH1spMkaa6da0Fr+IuDygvmB8OSzEe/LH31EotFRkmad28Tt+k/hrXOaIOs1j8R/E7CE6h2H2H8d4K+/3D3VuO/iZYD6Ydrls7sGIca/UcAHTzpfsr9GzvHy+JrK9oeL27CMzlQNt5JJ2Ggquf+IOHeAti6rHSO5l95Lz9398n2puPjFtgoqWw2Y/OSXIkQRrlGp289qu9aM63s2H8Koa5iL6QRcCjcz7RPXbbSK3mKuaHSvN+y+PFtAltAkxOTrAgafpV2eKMTBzj1rRQvZjOe6L9b0LNRtjSegqk+VmIk03n1eJnZdNizTFxJqpF+lz6MQsuVxbfsVZcMvkg1lOf51LZxpXY0nC0NSpm5O1QltazlvjAjUn4U3+ayTr08B+tZLps0fURe3bhqa01ZN8cTU1ricdfhJ/OqfTJUzUXLsCmpd0rOYzicxDT7vzoe3xAj6X3D9/fS7ehvqbNTzT5UqzH8wP1vu/+1Kn2xZmeFSLSpVuZhmFqW9tSpVHktcGU7Q+17qr+Gbe8/hSpVP5l/gE9DUmJ/yW+yfwpUqsgG4b7Q9B+AqbiWx/fSlSql9hL+8p32Hv/E1MPZPurtKsUbMEH61YW/Z99KlWa5NHwXvYf/M9x/Crtvab1NKlW0eDCXJGaaaVKtDM6K7SpUAcNKlSoAem/wAKVKlSA6Kem4pUqAONt7zTa5SoA7SpUqAP/9k=

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## madmusti

alaungphaya said:


> Have you not seen the very clear pictures and video?



Just some tweets, there will be such rumors i don´t think that this situation will change really the Russian & Turkish relationship, for both are their economies actually more Important.


BTW the Helicopter:

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## The-king



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## EnggineerShahjehan

For my pro russian muslim friends, have u forgot what russia did with chechyns and bosnians muslim in their own country and u think for them as saviors, they have jumped in Syria just to protect dictator asad who killed his own people that were not accepting him. I hate Russia as much i hate US for sponsoring ISIS. Just be with muslim's no need to look east or west just look above towards Allah and for his sake unite together against both these muslim enemies.

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## Hakan

Serpentine said:


> When there is no hostility between 2 countries, no I wouldn't. I would defenitely support shooting down a Saudi jet or American jet violating Iran's airspace, but not a Turkish one, since this is not how things are handled in the world. I would only support that if Turkey was openly showing hostility towards Iran, otherwise, it would only be escalating things quickly. There are much better ways to counter these incidents. Iran for example, stationed some Mig-29s and Tomcats in Tabriz in 90s and flew regular sorties near Turkish border and after that things cooled down, till now.
> 
> Shooting down a jet or killing 2 pilots in such conditions will not win a war for either side or defeating the other, it will just escalate things.
> 
> I don't expect you to condemn this incident, but you should accept, the nasty game Erdogan is playing in Syria by supporting terror groups for his own agenda is backfiring every single day, you won't agree with me now, but maybe in 10 years when you look back, you will definitely see it.


Its wrong for people to kill each other but when someone insults a nation's honor then they will get the response.

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## alaungphaya

madmusti said:


> Just some tweets, there will be such rumors i don´t think that this situation will change really the Russian & Turkish relationship, for both are their economies actually more Important.
> 
> 
> BTW the Helicopter:



Well, lets hope so. But as for the plane, it was very clearly a Su-24.

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## nForce

The-king said:


> and don't ask further spoon feeding
> http://www.nato.int/docu/handbook/2006/hb-en-2006.pdf


Quote the paragraph.


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## Rasengan

HAKIKAT said:


> Right brother! This is what I expected from the millet which produced likes of M M Alam. You have bravely fought Russian invasion in Afghanistan. Believing pilots cool increases as the altitude is gained further.



Its funny to witness the outcome how members participating in this thread are discussing the destruction of Turkey. If Russia was to attack Turkey on a full frontal war, then a large majority of Muslims including Pakistan would defend it.

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## anatolia

i dont understand we downed a syrian jet not russian jet.


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## Manticore

KINDLY KEEP ON REPORTING THE POSTS - I AM ONLINE RIGHT NOW

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## Gibbs

US officials saying that indications Russia jet was in Turkish airspace only for a few seconds

— Alistair Bunkall (@AliBunkallSKY) November 24, 2015


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## The-king

*1979–1988 Soviet-Afghan War*
Main articles: Soviet war in Afghanistan, Soviet-Afghan War and Air Force Strategic Command (Pakistan)
In 1979, the PAF's Chief of Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Anwar Shamim, was told by then President, and Chief of Army Staff General Zia-ul-Haq, that Pakistan had reliable intels on Indian plans to attack and destroy the Pakistan's nuclear research facilities at Kahuta. ACM Shamim told General Zia that, "Indian aircraft could reach the area in 3 minutes whereas the PAF would take 8 minutes, allowing the Indians to attack the facility and return before the PAF could defend it". Because Kahuta was close to the Indian border it was decided that the best way to deter an Indian attack would be to procure new advanced fighters and weaponry. These could be used to mount a retaliatory attack on India's nuclear research facilities at Trombay in the event of an Indian attack on Kahuta. It was decided the most suitable aircraft would be the F-16 Fighting Falcon, which the United States eventually agreed to supply after the PAF refused to purchase the F-5E and F-5G. In 1983, when the first batch of F-16s reached Pakistan, ACM Shamim informed Zia of the PAF's capability to respond to an attack on the nuclear research facilities at Kahuta.[33][34]

A letter of agreement for up to 28 F-16A's and 12 F-16B's was signed December 1981. The contracts, _Peace Gate I_ and _Peace Gate II_, were for 6 and 34 Block 15 models respectively which would be powered by the F100-PW-200 engine. The fist _Peace Gate I_ aircraft was accepted at Fort Worth in October 1982. Two F-16A and four F-16B were delivered to Pakistan in 1983, the first F-16 arriving at PAF Base Sargodha (now known as PAF Base Mushaf) on 15 January 1983 flown by Squadron Leader Shahid Javed. The 34 remaining _Peace Gate II_ aircraft were delivered between 1983 and 1987.[35][36]

Between May 1986 and November 1988,[37] PAF F-16s have shot down at least eight intruders from Afghanistan. The first three of these (one Su-22, one probable Su-22, and one An-26) were shot down by two pilots from No. 9 Squadron. Pilots of No. 14 Squadron destroyed the remaining five intruders (two Su-22s, two MiG-23s, and one Su-25).[38]Most of these kills were by the AIM-9 Sidewinder, but at least one (a Su-22) was destroyed by cannon fire. Flight Lieutenant Khalid Mahmoud is credited with three of these kills. One F-16 was lost in these battles during an encounter between two F-16s and four Soviet Air Force MiG 23s on 29 April 1987. The pilot, Flight Lieutenant Shahid Sikandar Khan, ejected safely.[39]

The PAF is believed to have evaluated the Dassault Mirage 2000 in early 1981 and was planning to evaluate the F-16 Fighting Falcon afterwards.[40]

Pakistan shot down many Russian planes back in Afghan war, Russia can't do anything.
*Long Live Turkey*

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## Rasengan

F117 said:


> The real crime is using an ethnic group as a proxy force to further your own interests.



You have no leg to stand on since the financing of Hezbollah and the role of the Revolutionary Guards in Syria, have been used to further the interests of Iran, therefore stop your moral preaching because its nauseating.


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## xenon54 out

Serpentine said:


> When there is no hostility between 2 countries, no I wouldn't. I would defenitely support shooting down a Saudi jet or American jet violating Iran's airspace, but not a Turkish one, since this is not how things are handled in the world. I would only support that if Turkey was openly showing hostility towards Iran, otherwise, it would only be escalating things quickly. There are much better ways to counter these incidents. Iran for example, stationed some Mig-29s and Tomcats in Tabriz in 90s and flew regular sorties near Turkish border and after that things cooled down, till now.
> 
> Shooting down a jet or killing 2 pilots in such conditions will not win a war for either side or defeating the other, it will just escalate things.
> 
> I don't expect you to condemn this incident, but you should accept, the nasty game Erdogan is playing in Syria by supporting terror groups for his own agenda is backfiring every single day, you won't agree with me now, but maybe in 10 years when you look back, you will definitely see it.


Everyone should know by now that Turkey changed the RoE on Syrian border, keep your jets on your side and everything will be fine.

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## ArsalanKhan21

Rasengan said:


> Its funny to witness the outcome how members participating in this thread are discussing the destruction of Turkey. If Russia was to attack Turkey on a full frontal war, then a large majority of Muslims including Pakistan would defend it.



Pakistan stand with Turkey and we should help defend Turkey. We did not send troops to Yemen and Syria but we must send them to Turkey. Any attack on Turkey would not be tolerated. Pakistan must coordinate with NATO to take action if there are any threats against Turkey. Russia also shot down a Turkish F-4 last year.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Erdogan: Ankara-Moscow Relations at Risk

Russia was warned days before - Voice of America.


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## The-king

nForce said:


> Quote the paragraph.


Stop trolling find it u r self

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## Imran Khan

*i wish both GOVs solve this issue on table and work together for bomb terrorists *

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## nForce

The-king said:


> Stop trolling find it u r self



Yeah.. right...


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## The-king

Abba_Dabba_Jabba said:


> Or we get it back  We have more power plus we are supporting Russia..



Sir sorry to give u extra work load but Indian members trolling exceeding the limits
just check this
@Manticore

Look at the skill of Turkish Pilot flying Pakistani F-16 MLU

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## Providence

I fear turkey would be punished not in the immediate aftermath but pretty soon. Time to deploy them F22s !

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## spinghar

Economic superpower said:


> I really hope Russia bombs Turkey.
> 
> It's about time that state sponsor of terror suffered.


it's russia who's backing a state thug a gross murderer bashar ul assad who killed thousand times more than even IS could imagine. murtad assad bomb civilian and million became refugee due to his bombing. IS is just advertised differently, which attract emotional response but a sane person can differentiate who is more evil.

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## fox 2

@Lure 
Yazdığın her şeyin açıklaması var ama senin rezilliğinin açıklaması yok. Yazıklar olsun.
Daha fazla yazıp da konuyu kirletmeyelim.

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## Tipu7

All those who are saying
"Turkey is finished" "Turkey just signed his death warrants" need to look at bigger picture.

Firstly at Syria, Russians are at disadvantage as their presence is very limited and their opponents are in plenty.
Secondly messing with Turkey, is messing with entire NATO which Russia cannot afford.
Thirdly in Middle East, close to Turkish borders the sky belongs to TuAF. Their advance Falcons aided with AWACS give security that Russian will not be able to penetrate Turkish airspace. If they did, they will pay the price just like they paid now.
Fourthly, Russia cannot engage Turkey directly, it's aggressive response will be to support Kurds and create panic with in Turkey. If they chooses to do so then there will be big problem for Turkey to deal with.
Lastly, the aircraft was shot down after numerous warnings (as per Turkish claim) Russians either have to prove them wrong or they better sit tight at their places, because if it is proved that aircraft was violating the airspace of Turkey and ignored many warnings then the kill of TuAF is justified and they did the fine job......


Best thing is to wait a bit and let the authentic stuff circulate, only then real picture will become clear..........

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## -SINAN-

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669166303291318272

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## BLACKEAGLE

Syrian regime strongly condemns Turkish violation of it's country's _*sovereignty*_...

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## The-king

Sinan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669166303291318272


@nForce 
check this


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## ArsalanKhan21

Providence said:


> I fear turkey would be punished not in the immediate aftermath but pretty soon. Time to deploy them F22s !



Ukraine is Russia's backyard and Syria is Turkey's backyard. Turkey fighter has not been shot down in Donetsk area of Ukraine but Russian fighter close to Turkish border in Syria. Turkey is justified to defend its borders.

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## F117

Rasengan said:


> You have no leg to stand on since the financing of Hezbollah and the role of the Revolutionary Guards in Syria, have been used to further the interests of Iran, therefore stop your moral preaching because its nauseating.


Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.

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## Soulspeek

Let me give a quote which is very famous among Pakistanis.

Putin to Erdogran....
Bhai tujhe mainay dost mana parr tere to "Muh me Ram, bagal me chhuri" nikli..


----------



## Oracle

Sinan said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669166303291318272


My dear friend , what US did is fired towards russia using your shoulder. Russia is no more super power but it will be dumb to not recognize it as one of biggest power. i hope you resolve this issue on table because if russia and turkey will come on the ground for proxy war then it will be really bad for turkey to sustain terroism and uprising russia can create in turkey using kurds. and US always policy of war is to have it in others country

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## The-king

F117 said:


> Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.


Same to you.

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## madmusti

F117 said:


> Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.



I care ? You are here on a Pakistani Forum or did i miss something ? You can talk here because Pakistanis are allowing it to you !

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## ArsalanKhan21

F117 said:


> Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.



We did not take part in sectarian wars in Yemen nor in Syria but we will defend and send troops to Turkey. Don't cross the line. Iran was sending its Foriegn Minister to Pakistan to convince us not send troops in Yemen.



Rukarl said:


> Yeh they have nothing to do with this conflict.

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## -SINAN-

Oracle said:


> My dear friend , what US did is fired towards russia using your shoulder. Russia is no more super power but it will be dumb to not recognize as one of biggest power. i hope you resolve this issue on table


My dear friend, we don't care how foreigners reads the recent incident. Turkey has every right to defend it's sovereignty.

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## Rukarl

F117 said:


> Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.


Yeh they have nothing to do with this conflict.

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## Lure

zenmastera said:


> @Lure
> Yazdığın her şeyin açıklaması var ama senin rezilliğinin açıklaması yok. Yazıklar olsun.
> Daha fazla yazıp da konuyu kirletmeyelim.



Sana veya bir başkasına bir tane bile hakaret etmedim. Bana verilen her cevapta ise hafif veya ağır hakaretlere maruz kaldım. Bu kimin rezillik çıkarttığını ve kimlerin tartışma adabına bağlı olduğunu gösteriyor. Uzun zamandır burada yazarım. Hiç bir zaman bu kadar kısa süre içerisinde bu kadar fazla hakaret maruz kalmamıştım. Zaten sizin gibi insanlar benim görüşlerimi desteklemesin. Hata bende kimlere laf anlatmaya çalıştım. 

Halifeyi desteklemeye devam edin. 29 Ekimlerde yürüyüşe çıkar, Anıtkabire gider içinizi rahatlatırsınız.

-----

I'm sorry for the non-Turkish speakers. We've needed to discuss some specifics about the issue in Turkish since both of us were more comfortable discussing this in Turkish.


----------



## Oracle

Sinan said:


> My dear friend, we don't care how foreigners reads the recent incident. Turkey has every right to defend it's sovereignty.


you shot an aircraft in syrian territory. you always scramble jets but dont start shooting one when it comes close to border. 
you engage when it crosses the border


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## Beast

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> We did not take part in sectarian wars in Yemen nor in Syria but we will defend and send troops to Turkey. Don't cross the line.


sorry , you can go defend turkey yourself. Even pakistan PM will think turkey act too rash this time and will not help turkey in case of anything happen between turkey and Russia.

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## Luffy 500

Turkey did the right thing. Even if russian scumbags were in syrian territory as a muslim i support turkish action. Russian scumbags have no business in Syria let alone poking turkey. Putin is living in his lala land while living on chinese handouts.

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## nForce

The-king said:


> @nForce
> check this


what about it ?


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

Rangila said:


> Americans eat Turkey every thanksgiving day.
> Russians are going to have it served in their plate sooner than later.
> View attachment 274502

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## azzo

Russia got owned.

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## F117

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> We did not take part in sectarian wars in Yemen nor in Syria but we will defend and send troops to Turkey. Don't cross the line.



There is no defence pact between Turkey and Pakistan. It exists in your head only.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Oracle said:


> My dear friend , what US did is fired towards russia using your shoulder. Russia is no more super power but it will be dumb to not recognize it as one of biggest power. i hope you resolve this issue on table because if russia and turkey will come on the ground for proxy war then it will be really bad for turkey to sustain terroism and uprising russia can create in turkey using kurds. and US always policy of war is to have it in others country



20 % of Russias population is muslim. They would suffer in Caucasian and even Moskva

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## Syed Hussain

The "great Sultan of psychopaths" just messed with the wrong people this time, may be Uncle Sam told him that he has the balls to do that, only he never told him that those balls expired long ago

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## NL_Turk

Oracle said:


> you shot an aircraft in syrian territory. you always scramble jets but dont start shooting one when it comes close to border.
> you engage when it crosses the border



That is what they did, russian plane kept crossing the border flying in circles, pilot is warned multiple times with no response. Only after that the plane was shot. 
Since there was no reply from the pilot, I'm guessing TurAF could not even have known if it was a Russian or Syrian plane. 

And I'm no expert but a plane would not fall straight down like a brick right? 
It could have been shot over Turkish territory and fallen down across the border.

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## The-king



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## Rangila

2 pilots eject.


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## ArsalanKhan21

F117 said:


> There is no defence pact between Turkey and Pakistan. It exists in your head only.



Is there a defence pact between Syria and Iran or Yemen and Iran ? Turkey is our friend it is our duty to defend it.

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## Rangila

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Is there a defence pact between Syria and Iran or Yemen and Iran ? Turkey is our friend it is our duty to defend it.



Turkey is a NATO member.


----------



## Hurshid Celebi

Rangila said:


> 2 pilots eject.



PILOTS captured alive from FSA and trasferred to Turkish Army, they will be treated as guests and delivered to Russian authorities,

source NTV news Turkey 1 hour ago

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## Oracle

Hurshid Celebi said:


> 20 % of Russias population is muslim. They would suffer in Caucasian and even Moskva


Dude you have no idea how war can break the back of country . Pakistan suffered 10 years of war & terrorism because of US policies and US front line ally. Now we know what we did is wrong and our economy fell like hell but we had China on our back and our economy didnt crippled because of china . ( thanks to them  . But even if US will come to help Turkey , even then tukey will be hit too badly to rise again ,


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## -SINAN-

Oracle said:


> you shot an aircraft in syrian territory. you always scramble jets but dont start shooting one when it comes close to border.
> you engage when it crosses the border


Correction, we fired at the Russian aircraft within the Turkish borders (HH026). Missile hit the aircraft at HH037. Basically we hit it within our borders.

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## JonAsad

We are with our Turkish brothers- been there done that-

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## The-king

nForce said:


> what about it ?


----------



## fox 2

Lure said:


> Sana veya bir başkasına bir tane bile hakaret etmedim. Bana verilen her cevapta ise hafif veya ağır hakaretlere maruz kaldım. Bu kimin rezillik çıkarttığını ve kimlerin tartışma adabına bağlı olduğunu gösteriyor. Uzun zamandır burada yazarım. Hiç bir zaman bu kadar kısa süre içerisinde bu kadar fazla hakaret maruz kalmamıştım. Zaten sizin gibi insanlar benim görüşlerimi desteklemesin. Hata bende kimlere laf anlatmaya çalıştım.
> 
> Halifeyi desteklemeye devam edin. 29 Ekimlerde yürüyüşe çıkar, Anıtkabire gider içinizi rahatlatırsınız.
> 
> -----
> 
> I'm sorry for the non-Turkish speakers. We've needed to discuss some specifics about the issue in Turkish since both of us were more comfortable discussing this in Turkish.


Ben o halifeyi protesto ettğim için göz altına alındım, biber gazı yedim merak etme. Daha fazla konuşmaya gerek yok. Durumun farkında değilsin sen. O halifeyi içerde yıkacaksın. Dışarıya malzeme vermeyeceksin. Yarın BM barış gücü buraya demokrasi için gelir veya Rusya IŞİD destekçisi diye ülkeyi işgale kalksa kına yakarsın sen. 

Sorry for Turkish.

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## ArsalanKhan21

Putin is invovled in high stakes poker game. Russia was calling Turkish bluff but Turkey took the decisive action. This is not Ukraine but Syria and it is Turkey's backyard. Turkey is justified to defend its borders.



Rangila said:


> Turkey is a NATO member.



We will coordinate our defense of Turkey with NATO.

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## CHD



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## Hurshid Celebi

Oracle said:


> Dude you have no idea how war can break the back of country . Pakistan suffered 10 years of war & terrorism because of US policies and US front line ally. Now we know what we did is wrong and our economy fell like hell but we had China on our back and our economy didnt crippled because of china . ( thanks to them  . But even if US will come to help Turkey , even then tukey will be hit too badly to rise again ,



Russia is nothing producing for export except natural ressources gas, oil e.g. Turkey tends to cancel Russian pipelines and all other projects also Nuke Power plants, Japan is waiting

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## pkd

According to claims on this image AIM-120C7 was fired from a falcons 50 km aways.
Taken the claim at face value, did the Fencer had a shot by employing ECM against the incoming AMRAM?

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## Rasengan

F117 said:


> Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.



Clearly you do care, because you have decided to join a Pakistani Defence Forum and have retorted back to my message

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## Rangila



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## Random111

@Hurshid Celebi 

bellingcat - Verifying Video of a Dead Russian Pilot in Syria


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## ArsalanKhan21

Rasengan said:


> Clearly you do care, because you have decided to join a Pakistani Defence Forum and have retorted back to my message



Let the idiot post we need to see how his ilk thinks.



Beast said:


> sorry , you can go defend turkey yourself. Even pakistan PM will think turkey act too rash this time and will not help turkey in case of anything happen between turkey and Russia.



He knows Pakistan is in a bind and we will defend Turkey. Russia will encourage its client states, India and Afghanistan, against Pakistan to forestall any Pakistani support but we should support Turkey.

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## notorious_eagle

Hurshid Celebi said:


> PILOTS captured alive from FSA and trasferred to Turkish Army, they will be treated as guests and delivered to Russian authorities,
> 
> source NTV news Turkey 1 hour ago



Are you sure? 

FSA Local Commanders have been quoted saying that they killed both the pilots when they were parachuting down. In fact, they posted a picture of a pilot massively bruised in his face and definitely very dead. 

If this news is true, this is very good news and will play a huge role in reducing the tensions.

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## okan tekis

Hurshid Celebi said:


> PILOTS captured alive from FSA and trasferred to Turkish Army, they will be treated as guests and delivered to Russian authorities,
> 
> source NTV news Turkey 1 hour ago


thats good news


----------



## Hurshid Celebi

I quoted NTV news Türkiye, they are serious TV news channel; we will see

@Yenikuyu

"Based on the above matches it is *possible* to confirm" no serious information - belligcat-


----------



## cnleio

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russia is nothing producing for export except natural ressources gas, oil e.g. Turkey tends to cancel Russian pipelines and all other projects also Nuke Power plants, Japan is waiting

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## Rasengan

Beast said:


> sorry , you can go defend turkey yourself. Even pakistan PM will think turkey act too rash this time and will not help turkey in case of anything happen between turkey and Russia.



The real power in Pakistan is maintained by the Military and not the Prime Minister of Pakistan. Russia's declaration of war on Turkey will galvanize a large percentage of the Muslim world in defending Turkey and Pakistan will be included.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Picture shows an Russian Specznas

Türkmen Dağı 2. SAHiL TÜMENi


----------



## Abdullah S.

JonAsad said:


> Did someone said good bye Pakistan when we started to shoot down the then USSR war planes in 80s? -


We always made sure that the plane's debris fell on our side.

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## The-king

notorious_eagle said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> FSA Local Commanders have been quoted saying that they killed both the pilots when they were parachuting down. In fact, they posted a picture of a pilot massively bruised in his face and definitely very dead.
> 
> If this news is true, this is very good news and will play a huge role in reducing the tensions.


The pictures circulating may be from old Russian chopper crashed in Syria. May be.

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## Rangila




----------



## madmusti




----------



## azzo

cnleio said:


> View attachment 274506


Simply Qatar.

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## Malik Alashter

God I left this thread 8 hours ago with just 4 pages look now almost 70 page!!! too many loosers and bored people around.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Rangila said:


> View attachment 274505



Thats right sir also NTV-TV announced 1 hour ago in breaking news


----------



## Hack-Hook

matmat26 said:


> Persians, even a time in history you have to fight with the Crusaders. You have to always be on the road co-operation against the Muslims ... are now the same.


if you want to knew we are the only muslim country that managed to make an European power fight for us and destroy another European power in the region. When you managed to do that then start to talk about crusaders.

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## notorious_eagle

Hurshid Celebi said:


> I quoted NTV news Türkiye, they are serious TV news channel; we will see
> 
> @Yenikuyu
> 
> "Based on the above matches it is *possible* to confirm" no serious information - belligcat-



This video definitely shows that the pilot is dead. It could be that the second pilot has been rescued.





The-king said:


> The pictures circulating may be from old chopper Russian chopper crashed in Syria. May be.



The crew for the chopper that crashed was safely evacuated. Most likely, the pilot belongs to the SU24.


----------



## Xn Jin

as a pakistani its hard for me to see Chinese and Turkish comment fight over pdf

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## Rangila

*Moscow warns Ankara of "inevitable consequences" for attack on Su-24*

*TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Moscow warns Ankara of "inevitable consequences" for attack on Su-24 *


----------



## The-king

notorious_eagle said:


> This video definitely shows that the pilot is dead. It could be that the second pilot has been rescued.
> 
> 
> 
> The crew for the chopper that crashed was safely evacuated. Most likely, the pilot belongs to the SU24.


As per the previous video parachute deployed successfully, in that case may be they killed by the captors


----------



## EagleEyes

Don't post pics/videos of graphic nature against the forum rules.

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## Rangila

What are the implications of Turkey downing Russian jet? - Yahoo News


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## pakdefender

We are with Turkey and support them. 

There are better ways to fight Daesh than to violate sovereign borders

Russia should coordinate better with Turkey and avoid such type of incursions

The silver lining is that there was no loss of life , the two Russian pilots who ejected are accounted for

Escalation from Russia towards Turkey will be very foolish

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## Oublious

Saurabh jindals said:


> US dumps Allie Turkey , Says not involved in drowning of Russian jet |
> America on the back of whome you were jumping already through you down in front of Russia same way in 1971 happened with Pakistan . God save Turkey. I can only do this for you ....




russian dumb slave allie are trolling, cheap slave people...

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## ArsalanKhan21

Xn Jin said:


> as a pakistani its hard for me to see Chinese and Turkish comment fight over pdf



Pakistanis are supporting Turkey while Chinese are supporting Russia. During the WW I when Brititish Empire was fighting Turkish Ottoman Empire even then the colonial troops from future Pakistani regions defected to Ottomans. We have long and deep friendship with the Turks.

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## cnleio

Tomorrow watch the show, Good Night ~!

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## Oublious

Lure said:


> 6 saniye kaldı diyorum Türk hava sahasında anlamıyor musun? Ucuz delikanlılık yapmayın. Dünyada 6 saniye için kimse uçak düşürmez. Düşürülseydi bugün 50 kere 3. Dünya Savaşı çıkardı. Bu senin yaptığın komşun gürültü yaptı diye ona bıçak çekmeye benzer. Altında başka bir konu veya niyet yoksa yapılan şeye aşırı tepki vermek denir. Bu bıçağı sen bir kere çekersin, iki kere çekersin, üçüncüde elinden alıp artık gerekeni yaparlar sana.
> 
> Bir şeyleri göze almadan kimse boş yere rüzgar yapmayacak. Bugün olan olayda da ortada rüzgar yapılacak bir mevzu yok. Ruslar IŞİD'i vuruyor diye bizim halife bozuldu Rus uçağını düşürttürdü. Olan olay bundan farklı değil. Senin ülkenin geleceği orada iki tane arap eşikyası yüzünden heba ediliyor sen burada sevinç çığlıkları atıyorsun. Pes gerçekten pes.




Bas git lan, adamlar pic etmisler hava sahamizi sen halen siyaset yap.

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## xenon54 out

WebMaster said:


> Don't post pics/videos of graphic nature against the forum rules.


But racism is ok?

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## Curious_Guy

a couple of weeks ago , most of the posters were saying Turkey will not down any Russian Plane and now they have , things are getting heated up Wait and see 

this region has cost Russia two planes in a month time , wonder how they will respond

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## flamer84

pkd said:


> Taken the claim at face value, did the Fencer had a shot by employing ECM against the incoming AMRAM?



According to Russian media,a few months ago ,one of these Fencers completely disabled the electronics on a US Arleigh Burke Aegis equipped cruiser.It makes you wonder why today the same super duper fencer was so easily turned into artificial rain.

But hey,i guess its tradition for Russian jets in the ME areea to be downed from the sky when encountering their Western counterparts.

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## BLACKEAGLE



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## cabatli_53

Syrian M-17






Syrian Mig-23






Russian Drone downed







It is time to put an actual Russian red star just below our f-16 cockpit first time in NATO !

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## Hurshid Celebi

Turkey shoots down Russian warplane on Syria border: Vladimir Putin warns of 'serious consequences' - latest - Telegraph


*Turkish official says Ankara believes two pilots are alive despite reports*

*David Cameron has urged Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish Prime Minister, to speak to Russia to ensure that there is a "clear understanding" of what has happened, Steven Swinford reports.

During a 10 minute phone Mr Davutoglu explained that the Russian jet had violated its airpace and "consequently it had taken action".

The Prime Minister's Official Spokesman added that Britain "respects Turkey's right to protect its airspace".
*


----------



## ArsalanKhan21

cnleio said:


>



The emperor has no clothes or balls !!

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## Imran Khan

pakistanis are poll dancing for what ? you guys are always one sided. stay neutral .
both are our friends turkey and russia . the objective is to bomb terrorists not to fight each other this matter will be solved soon .

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## Rangila

*Turkey provides no proof Russian Su-24 violated its airspace*
According to Peskov, Turkey has provided no evidence to prove that the Russian Su-24 bomber violated its airspace.

He said once Turkey had provided no proof Russia relied on its data that the warplane had not violated Turkey’s airspace.

When asked whether Ankara had offered any official proof of its claims that the Russian warplane had violated its airspace, he answered in the negative.

"We rely on data from out defense specialists who know all the parameters of the downed plane’s flight," Peskov said. "These data show that the plane was flying in Syria’s airspace and was shot down over Syria."


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## Osiris

Rasengan said:


> The real power in Pakistan is maintained by the Military and not the Prime Minister of Pakistan. Russia's declaration of war on Turkey will galvanize a large percentage of the Muslim world in defending Turkey and Pakistan will be included.



People talk here as if Pakistan is some big time military superpower, that would shift the balance of war?

What does Pakistan have to offer, that Turkey already doesn't posses or can't get from NATO?

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## EnggineerShahjehan

Imran Khan said:


> *i wish both GOVs solve this issue on table and work together for bomb terrorists *


Which terrorists ! PKK (that is supported by russia, china and iran against turkey) or Turkmens ( that is supported by turkey against all these)



Osiris said:


> People talk here as if Pakistan is some big time military superpower, that would shift the balance of war?
> 
> What does Pakistan have to offer, that Turkey already doesn't posses or can't get from NATO?


Pakistan is not a super military power but still it can be useful to break countries just like in old days in case of USSR.

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## Rangila

*Russians second-biggest visitors by nationality to Turkey*

To put the previous posts in context, a sharp reduction in Russian tourists visiting Turkey could have a big impact. Recent figures from the Turkish authorities suggest Russians are the second biggest visitors by nationality.







Russian Market

russian_market

Top 10 countries whose residents provided the most visits to Turkey (2012 est.)

2:57 p.m. - 24 November 2015

*Russia tour operator suspends sale of package holidays to Turkey*




BBC Monitoring

Posted at15:11


Natali Tours, one of Russia's largest tour operators, has suspended the sale of package holidays to Turkey, news website Gazeta.rureports [in Russian]. 

According to a press release from the company, the decision is based on President Vladimir Putin's decree of 8 November announcing measures aimed at "ensuring the safety of Russian citizens".


----------



## Manticore

cabatli_53 said:


> Syrian M-17
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Syrian Mig-23
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Drone downed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is time to put an actual Russian red star just below our f-16 cockpit first time in NATO !







something like this? paf f16s

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## oproh

*Breaking News: *Erdogan currently having a seizure in fear of russian bombs being dropped on his beloved turkey.

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## ArsalanKhan21

EnggineerShahjehan said:


> Pakistan is not a super military power but still it can be useful to break countries just like in old days in case of USSR.



We will give full moral support. Friends stand with friends when crunch comes. That is the time when you can distinguish friends from acquaintances.

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## Rangila

This is grisly:

*Both of the pilots were retrieved dead'*

Syrian Turkmen brigade deputy commander Alpaslan Celik tells Reuters:

Both of the pilots were retrieved dead. _Our comrades opened fire into the air and they died in the air."_

*Turkmen forces shot dead pilots as they parachuted'*

The deputy commander of a Turkmen brigade in Syria says his forces shot dead two pilots of the downed Russian jet as they descended with parachutes, says Reuters.


----------



## Rukarl

RIP 

https://cdn.l iveleak.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2015/Nov/24/********-dot-com-b72_1448380442-CUlmlagVEAMDH-y_1448380325.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd39e4e4cd3df583c&ec_rate=230


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## anon45

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> The emperor has no clothes or balls !!



Or its just a colonel focusing on his mission who in fact is not a spokesman for NATO. He is leaving it to the higher-ups to make that decision.


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## Rangila

*Putin in TV address: 'Today's tragic events will have significant consequences'*

Mr Putin said: "We will analyse everything in detail and today's tragic events will have significant consequences including for relations between Russia and Turkey." 










He said the aircraft was inside Syrian airspace - 4km from the Turkish border - when it was hit, news agencies report.


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## -SINAN-

SiCiSi said:


> Turks are over reactive and easy to read. WE know they will go into a rage and start acting silly so we can plan for it.
> 
> Its like playing with a cat with a laser pointer. We can make them do exactly what we want.
> 
> Now we close down Syria airspace and give the Kurds ample room to expand.
> 
> Easy.


Mate you repeating this non-sense argument over and over again to come back from the humiliation you just received.

Close Syrian airspace or close the airspace of Zimbabwe...what's it up to us ? Turkish planes are not operating in Syrian airspace. 

If you try to close the Syrian airspace, you are going to have problem with US not Turkey.

I'm telling you for the hundred time, we are not using Syrian airspace, We didn't even trespassed it for a second since 2012.

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## Rangila

*Oil prices rise amid heightened tensions in Middle East*

Oil prices have risen following news that Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syria-Turkey border and a weaker US dollar provided incentive for investors to buy more oil. 

"News of a military jet crashing in Syria is a reminder that there is still substantial risk in the Middle East," Bjarne Schieldrop, the Olso-based chief commodities analyst at SEB bank told Reuters news agency.


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## Serpentine

cabatli_53 said:


> It is time to put an actual Russian red star just below our f-16 cockpit first time in NATO !



Shooting down a ground attack jet with no proper air warfare capability from behind and during peace time is nothing to brag about, it would be something significant if you could have shot down a Su-30 in an air warfare or something like that. 

You can use a 10 year old kid in an F-16 to lock on a Su-24 and shoot, well done, mission accomplished.

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## Osiris

EnggineerShahjehan said:


> Pakistan is not a super military power but still it can be useful to break countries just like in old days in case of USSR.



I think Pakistanis need to get over their misgivings, that they broke up any country much less the Soviet union.

It was the way Soviet handled their economics that broke their country.

It was CIA which funded and supplied the weapons, Afghan Jihadis who fought against Soviet forces. Pakistanis were just the middlemen used by American to transfer Israeli (captured by Israelis in their war against Arabs) and American weapons to Afghans.

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## Hurshid Celebi

*Spanish MP Jose Manuel Garcia Margallo Breaking NEWS*

" It is acceptable that Turkey downed Russian Jet after airspace violations and 10 warnings monitored from allied pilots in the area. Russia has to join anti ISIL alliance and not fight the anti ESAD alliance "!

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## oproh

RIP to the Russian martyrs. God is with you Russia in bombing the terrorists and their rebel buddies.

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## cabatli_53

Such incidents will directly change the power projection of Turkish industry... The new targets should be;

-Nuclear Tech is a must for Turkey.
-Long range land attack cruise missiles ! (Already have an ongoing project with a range of 1000km range but The schedule should be accelerated)
-Ballistic Missiles !
-Domestic Low-Medium and Long range SAM missiles (Already have but The schedule should be accelerated )

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## Rangila

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CUmDHiMWsAAye4I.mp4


----------



## bongbang

oproh said:


> And this is according to a bangladeshi suffering from extreme poverty.



He is not Bangladeshi, he is Bangistani. No identity just like IS. We are right now cleaning their masters in our country so he must be mad.

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## xenon54 out

Sinan said:


> Mate you repeating this non-sense argument over and over again to come back from the humiliation you just received.
> 
> Close Syrian airspace or close the airspace of Zimbabwe...what's it up to us ? Turkish planes are not operating in Syrian airspace.
> 
> If you try to close the Syrian airspace, you are going to have problem with US not Turkey.
> 
> I'm telling you for the hundred time, we are not using Syrian airspace, We didn't even trespassed it for a second since 2012.


Bro he thinks thats their revenge, even thought they are the ones violating our airspace despite warnings over months or even years.
Leave them their ''revenge'' its a feel good post of him like all the other Russia fanboys you see here, they thought none can touch Russia, its a big hurt for their their ego that no US or UK downed a Russian plane but ''just'' Turkey.

Thats the only reason why some here are acting like racist angry pubescent teenies.

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## In arduis fidelis

Turkey of today reminds me of Pakistan of 80's:
-Conflicts in neighbouring countries-Check
-Directly or in directly supporting insurgents in that country-Check
-Russian intervention-Check
-Downing of Russian jets-Check
-Being frontline state in a US led coalition-Check
-Islamic radicalisation creeping into society-Check
-Millions of refugees flooding in-Check

Expecting a different fate then that of Pakistan will be like living in fools paradise.

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## -SINAN-

For Turkish posters.





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=919239041446162





"Look Putin, this piece is yours"
"Honorless Russians, what do you think your are doing in the homeland of Turks".

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## Oublious

Saurabh jindals said:


> Here is nothing personal. I can understand your mental condition currently but typing here anything will not going to change your destiny. Your destiny already written now .... Just wait for your turn and chant aluaakhbur as many times as you can
> No offence Intended




then don't quote dumb link...


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## The-king

cabatli_53 said:


> Such incidents will directly change the power projection of Turkish industry... The new targets should be;
> 
> -Nuclear Tech is a must for Turkey.
> -Long range land attack cruise missiles ! (Already have an ongoing project with a range of 1000km range but The schedule should be accelerated)
> -Ballistic Missiles !
> -Domestic Low-Medium and Long range SAM missiles (Already have but The schedule should be accelerated )


Ballistic missile and nuclear tech  just ask from borther will be gift pack to you..no need to worry for these...

*We are Turkey







*

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## The Sandman

Dafuq is wrong wid ppl on this thread they're literally praying for WW3

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## Rangila

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/CUmDHiMWsAAye4I.mp4


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## cabatli_53

Serpentine said:


> Shooting down a ground attack jet with no proper air warfare capability from behind and during peace time is nothing to brag about, it would be something significant if you could have shot down a Su-30 in an air warfare or something like that.
> 
> You can use a 10 year old kid in an F-16 to lock on a Su-24 and shoot, well done, mission accomplished.




Dude, Such childlike statements from a Mod doesn't make any sense ! Since everything in your country purely depends on propaganda, You can easily talk about such 10 years old child stories regarding a serious military incident but I think It is possible only in your Qhaher fighter driven by an 10 years old child, locking an Su-24 toy in his/her playground.

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## ArsalanKhan21

oproh said:


> RIP to the Russian martyrs. God is with you Russia in bombing the terrorists and their rebel buddies.



Don't worry your turn is coming when China liberates the Chinese islands currently under illegal Phillippinian occupation.

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## Rasengan

Osiris said:


> People talk here as if Pakistan is some big time military superpower, that would shift the balance of war?
> 
> What does Pakistan have to offer, that Turkey already doesn't posses or can't get from NATO?



Instead of writing gibberish nonsense from your rear end, read the context of my post carefully. Pakistan can play a major role in the Middle East, by diffusing the existing tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia who have escalated the conflict beyond its boundaries. Russia's declaration of war against Turkey will galvanize mass Muslim support and Pakistan will support its existence against Russia. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has no control over foreign policy, therefore the decision to defend Turkey will rest in the hands of the Army. Pakistan can never be considered a military superpower, however we did contribute to the collapse of the Soviet Union whose power was far greater than the current political set up of Russia. In addition, Pakistan has effectively become the real victor in Afghanistan because the Haqqani network is running the show and the Americans want us to negotiate peace-talks, which means our influenced has increased and not waned in Afghanistan and Central Asia. Turkey can receive support from NATO, however under no circumstances shall Pakistani's watch Turkish cities being bombed by Russian fighter jets.

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## The-king

Saurabh jindals said:


> You Donkey Russians have the best Ballistic Missile cover in the world and your cheap technology cant break it


@Manticore

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## Gibbs

Rafay Jamil said:


> Turkey of today reminds me of Pakistan of 80's:
> -Conflicts in neighbouring countries-Check
> -Directly or in directly supporting insurgents in that country-Check
> -Russian intervention-Check
> -Downing of Russian jets-Check
> -Being frontline state in a US led coalition-Check
> -Islamic radicalisation creeping into society-Check
> -Millions of refugees flooding in-Check
> 
> Expecting a different fate then that of Pakistan will be like living in fools paradise.



Erdogan would be the Zia Ul Haq of Turkey

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## Rangila

UPDATE: #ISIS has billions of dollars from selling oil, going from Syria to Turkey - Putin Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices — RT News


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## The-king

Check my Turk brothers how biased these Indians are......

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## Serpentine

cabatli_53 said:


> Dude, Such childlike statements from a Mod doesn't make any sense ! Since everything in your country purely depends on propaganda, You can easily talk about such 10 years old child stories regarding a serious military incident but I think It is possible only in your* Qhaher fighter driven by an 10 years old child, locking an Su-24 toy in his/her playground.*



And here we see whose comment is childish.

Good, you can celebrate over this super duper victory, shooting down a ground attack jet out of nowhere during peacetime, indeed the world is amazed at this spectacular and unparalleled victory in the history of air warfare.

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## A1Kaid

Rafay Jamil said:


> Turkey of today reminds me of Pakistan of 80's:
> -Conflicts in neighbouring countries-Check
> -Directly or in directly supporting insurgents in that country-Check
> -Russian intervention-Check
> -Downing of Russian jets-Check
> -Being frontline state in a US led coalition-Check
> -Islamic radicalisation creeping into society-Check
> -Millions of refugees flooding in-Check
> 
> Expecting a different fate then that of Pakistan will be like living in fools paradise.



That is a striking comparison. However, I will say one fundamental difference is Turkey is constitutionally a secular republic. The military leadership in Turkey is also very pro-secular. Turkish society is largely secular as well contrary to Pakistani society and Pakistani military. So they won't be as receptive to radical Islamic militarism. However, I do think Turkey will suffer something as to what extent is debatable. 

Another major difference is the Turkish economy is a trillion dollar economy and growing, Pakistan in the 1980's wasn't economically vibrant. So secularism and economic success in Turkey will allow Turkey to steer away from radical Islamic militarism. Turkey is also a member of NATO unlike Pakistan.

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## Rasengan

oproh said:


> And we Filipinos will migrate in your country and all of us will be one big happy family.



Who will become the alpha of this fantastic union

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## anatolia

Rangila said:


> UPDATE: #ISIS has billions of dollars from selling oil, going from Syria to Turkey - Putin Putin: Downing of Russian jet over Syria stab in the back by terrorist accomplices — RT News


yes sure turkey needs few trucks of oil.stop cheap propaganda.

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## Husnainshah

Rasengan said:


> Instead of writing gibberish nonsense from your rear end, read the context of my post carefully. Pakistan can play a major role in the Middle East, by diffusing the existing tensions between Iran and Saudi Arabia who have escalated the conflict beyond its boundaries. Russia's declaration of war against Turkey will galvanize mass Muslim support and Pakistan will support its existence against Russia. Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has no control over foreign policy, therefore the decision to defend Turkey will rest in the hands of the Army. Pakistan can never be considered a military superpower, however we did contribute to the collapse of the Soviet Union whose power was far greater than the current political set up of Russia. In addition, Pakistan has effectively become the real victor in Afghanistan because the Haqqani network is running the show and the Americans want us to negotiate peace-talks, which means our influenced has increased and not waned in Afghanistan and Central Asia. Turkey can receive support from NATO, however under no circumstances shall Pakistani's watch Turkish cities being bombed by Russian fighter jets.



I think you're exaggerating Pakistan's importance. To begin with, Pakistan already has a lot to deal with with regards to Afghanistan, Zarb-E-Azb, India. Secondly, You must understand China will veto any significant action against Russia on Pakistan's part. And by allying with Turkey, expect more action on Pak-Iran border. Pakistan simply can't afford it.

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## Pindi Boy

Saurabh jindals said:


> Here is nothing personal. I can understand your mental condition currently but typing here anything will not going to change your destiny. Your destiny already written now .... Just wait for your turn and chant aluaakhbur as many times as you can
> No offence Intended


@Slav Defence isn't this post off topic this guy is bringing religion here

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## JonAsad

Serpentine said:


> And here we see whose comment is childish.
> 
> Good, you can celebrate over this super duper victory, shooting down a ground attack jet out of nowhere during peacetime, indeed the world is amazed at this spectacular and unparalleled victory in the history of air warfare.


Come one who are you trying to fool-
Turkey shooting down a ground attack jet may not be a big achievement - but the dynamics change completely if that ground attack jet was russian- like Iranians some how grew the balls to shoot an amrikan Cessna plane - now that would be an Iranian achievement - deserving a national holiday-

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## Malik Alashter

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> We will give full moral support. Friends stand with friends when crunch comes. That is the time when you can distinguish friends from acquaintances.


Hey isn't your beloved jf-17 powered by Russian's engine imagine they stop delivering spare parts and engine to the coming planes.

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## abp94

Russians have pretty much ruled out military action so far. As for economic sanctions, those would hurt Russia more than Turkey

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## pher

Rangila said:


> *Moscow warns Ankara of "inevitable consequences" for attack on Su-24*
> 
> *TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Moscow warns Ankara of "inevitable consequences" for attack on Su-24 *


This is the spirit we are looking for. Hope it translate into action sooner than later.

China just delivered russia $15billion to show our support in the name of oil import pre-payment. We would like to share more burden with russia by all means if neccessary.

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## Peaceful Civilian

flamer84 said:


> According to Russian media,a few months ago ,one of these Fencers completely disabled the electronics on a US Arleigh Burke Aegis equipped cruiser.It makes you wonder why today the same super duper fencer was so easily turned into artificial rain.
> 
> But hey,i guess its tradition for Russian jets in the ME areea to be downed from the sky when encountering their Western counterparts.


Russian jets are no match with western & U.S.A . Balloon is burst many times.

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## abp94

People overestimate Russian power

To attack Turkey, it would require considerable amount of armed forces that Russia can not spare. They have a very poor economy, and while Putin has so far tried to show that he's very aggressive, he dares not attack Turkey and test NATO. A long war isn't something Russia can afford either

Turkey has played it well. They warned the jets, attacked it and downed it. Covered their backs and gave Russia something to think about.

In an aerial battle over Turkey or Syria, I'd back Turkey with their proximity to destroy Russia. Distance is a huge factor

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## Ragnarok connection

Rafay Jamil said:


> Turkey of today reminds me of Pakistan of 80's:
> -Conflicts in neighbouring countries-Check
> -Directly or in directly supporting insurgents in that country-Check
> -Russian intervention-Check
> -Downing of Russian jets-Check
> -Being frontline state in a US led coalition-Check
> -Islamic radicalisation creeping into society-Check
> -Millions of refugees flooding in-Check
> 
> Expecting a different fate then that of Pakistan will be like living in fools paradise.


Well said; these vassals of US need to set their priorities right; blindly following masters orders will be counter-productive.



JonAsad said:


> Hindus have some genetic technical faults in their brain- they some how manage to bring out their hatred for Islam on any occasion -
> Now say ram ram hari karishna whatever muslims gona eat you alive-


Lovely stuff bro, keep up the hate.

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## abp94

Ragnarok connection said:


> Well said; these vassals of US need to set their priorities right; blindly following masters orders will be counter-productive.


Vassals is a strong word. Turkey and US have the same strategic objectives.

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## cabatli_53

Serpentine said:


> And here we see whose comment is childish.
> 
> Good, you can celebrate over this super duper victory, shooting down a ground attack jet out of nowhere during peacetime, indeed the world is amazed at this spectacular and unparalleled victory in the history of air warfare.



Dude, Russian missiles are navigating all over your cities, While you are not even aware of what is going on but Coming here to judge the respectability of shotting down a Russian bomber something like a small thing to do. If I were you, I would have judged my own country in order to have ballz enough to do such an action/capability against USA instead of talking about 10 years old child stories...

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## ArsalanKhan21

Malik Alashter said:


> Hey isn't your beloved jf-17 powered by Russian's engine imagine they stop delivering spare parts and engine to the coming planes.



Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and stand with your friends. We have been supporting Turkey since World War I even when Pakistan was under British colonial rule. There is lot of difference between Pakistanis and the sectarian minded Iranians and Iraqis.

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## Oublious

Why are the persian but hurted, we downed a russian fighter? Look the comments, no fukin logic i mean. The message is clear to russia. Don't use are airspace for your interest, our airspace is not who you can jump in fuk like syrian airspace ore persian.

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## abp94

Oublious said:


> Why are the persian but hurted, we downed a russian fighter? Look the comments, no fukin logic i mean. The message is clear to russia. Don't use are airspace for your interest, our airspace is not who you can jump in fuk like syrian airspace ore persian.


Turkish power is hard to stomach for Iran. 

Lowers morale of their forces to see Turkey dare to take on Russia

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## PDF

What is wrong with the people. Turkey is a strong nation and have adequate military power to defend itself. The situation is still not fully clear. Russia is a strong country and have a strong military but a jet down is not something to have war for. 
Nevertheless, Pakistan and its people (most of them)are supporting you fully.
Everybody chill out.

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## ArsalanKhan21

JonAsad said:


> Hindus have some genetic technical faults in their brain- they some how manage to bring out their hatred for Islam on any occasion -
> Now say ram ram hari karishna whatever muslims gona eat you and your cow alive anyhow-



Are you nuts ? Avoid religious hatred !

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## Serpentine

JonAsad said:


> Come one who are you trying to fool-
> Turkey shooting nd down an ground attack jet may not be a big achievement - but the dynamics change completely if that ground attack jet was russian- like Iranians some how grew the balls to shoot an amrikan Cessna plane - now that would be an Iranian achievement - deserving a national holiday-



We don't need to shoot down an American Cessna, we bring down their most advanced UAV and they ask it back, only receive a middle finger in response, yes something like that deserves a celebration. 

There is a thin line between stupidity and courage, and certainly there is nothing to celebrate about shooting down a Su-24 which is on a ground attack mission, especially when you claim it has only violated your airspace for 17 seconds. Airspace violations happens so regularly in the world. 

Turkey violated Iran's airspace in 90s dozens of times, I can already imagine what would some Pakistani members' reaction be if Iran shot down a Turkish jet for violating our airspace for 17 seconds. Hypocrisy at its best.

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## PakEye

*Putin calls plane's downing by Turkey 'stab in the back'*


----------



## majid mehmood

*RUSSIA WILL FINISH COOPERATION WITH TURKEY IN ARMED FORCES OPERATION
RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTER*


----------



## ArsalanKhan21

abp94 said:


> Turkish power is hard to stomach for Iran.



Iran and Saudia Arabia are now basically sectarian nations.


----------



## JonAsad

Ragnarok connection said:


> Lovely stuff bro, keep up the hate.


You find this stuff lovely? - shame on you -

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## abp94

Serpentine said:


> We don't need to shoot down an American Cessna, we bring down their most advanced UAV and they ask it back, only receive a middle finger in response, yes something like that deserves a celebration.
> 
> There is a thin line between stupidity and courage, and certainly there is nothing to celebrate about shooting down a Su-24 which is on a ground attack mission, especially when you claim it has only violated your airspace for 17 seconds. Airspace violations happens so regularly in the world.
> 
> Turkey violated Iran's airspace in 90s dozens of times, I can already imagine what would some Pakistani members' reaction be if Iran shot down a Turkish jet for violating our airspace for 17 seconds. Hypocrisy at its best.


It was warned twice. It didn't respond. Turkey have sent a message, and it's a powerful one. From the initial response, it seems Russia isn't going to do much, so it's well thought out as well

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## monitor

Pentagon backs #Turkey’s version of events, blames ‘incursion’ of Russian jetwww.washingtontimes.… via @washtimes
#BREAKING Pentagon spox confirms Turkey warned Russian pilots repeatedly before shootdown, pilots did not respond
3 hours ago - Twitter

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## The-king

eyeswideshut said:


> What ?  you are saying to give technology bartered from china/north korea to turkey to fight russia. Where do you think china initially got that the technology from ? Bigdaddy of missile/nuke technology is still Russia.
> 
> And so many ppl agreed with you ?


@Manticore


----------



## PakEye

11:22 PM, 24.11.2014
Too Bussey Thade

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 244 (Users: 75, Guests: 167)

monitor ,
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farok84 ,
Korrupter ,
The Silent One ,
Gibbs ,
PATHAN786KING


Source: Turkey shoots down "Russian Jet" near border | Page 75


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## Hurshid Celebi

1. RUSSIA attacked Georgia

2. RUSSIA occupied KRIMEA

3. RUSSIA occupied Ukraine DONBAS

4. Russi threatens the Baltic Republics

5. Russia wants occupy parts of Syria to become neighbour of Türkiye

And build BASES at warm sea.


PUTIN dreams he is STALIN

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## JonAsad

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Are you nuts ? Avoid religious hatred !


You must be dumb or blind - its not religious hatred its a fact - deal with it-


----------



## proka89

In my opinion Turkey scored own goal with this. This was clearly inappropriate reaction, because we all know that there was no threat for Turkish territory or citizens by this or any other Russian aircraft. The plane was flying through maybe 2-4 km of Turkish airspace and was shot down over Syria. For example Turkish jets violate Greek airspace on regular basis, and all reaction they get are Greek planes to escort them until they leave. And we had similar situations all over the Europe and world, so there was absolutely no need to shoot this plane down. As far as i see the whole world is more or less surprised with this, because there is nothing Turkey can gain from this situation.

I respect Turkey as a country, and i see some forum members from Turkey seeing this as some kind of victory for Turkey. Claiming how they showed teeth to Russia... But what are results of that muscle-flexing? Does anyone here think that Russia will now stop the bombing of the Turkmen villages? If anything they will do everything in their power to retaliate to people who killed their pilots. But this time they will make sure to prevent something like this from happening again. More of Turkmens in Syria will die, and does anyone here believe that Turkey will try to prevent Russian retaliation with force?

We can already see that NATO is washing hands, and will not support this, they will not openly condemn Turkey, but it's plain to all that this is a clear clusterfuck. Not to mention that this is coming after US and Russia signed agreement to prevent things like this from happening. When France and Russia are strengthening their cooperation and other countries are preparing to also join their forces in effort to destroy radical islamists in Syria. So some people are right to ask, on which side Turkey is in this conflict. It's not a secret that ISIS is selling oil through Turkey, that their supplies routes are leading across Syria-Turkey border.... So we have Turkey claiming that they are fighting ISIS, but in reality we have Turkey shooting down Russian plane, for reasons which are ridiculous in such situation.

And there are always economical consequences. Turkey has a strong economic ties with Russia. And this is one of the reasons why Ankara could often lead more independent policy than some other US allies. Value of Lira is already falling after this. Russia is already warning their citizens not to go to Turkey, which will cause damage to tourism. Russia could decide to suspend visa free travel, which will divert most of Russian tourists to other countries. And this can make damage to many other existing or planned business deals.

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## sherin616

The-king said:


> Check my Turk brothers how biased these Indians are......


Ya they stood with us in 1971
Now indians heart is with Russians

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## farhan_9909

Malik Alashter said:


> Hey isn't your beloved jf-17 powered by Russian's engine imagine they stop delivering spare parts and engine to the coming planes.



We want close relations with Russia,we also want to expand defence ties with Russia but we can scarify all this for a loyal friend like turkey..

But as i said earlier,Russia won't escalate it further

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## monitor

US operations in Syria and Iraq are continuing "as planned," Army Col. Steve Warren said Tuesday, hours after Turkey reportedly shot down a Russian warplane.

"This is an incident between the Russian and the Turkish governments. It is not an issue that involves the combined joint task force or Operation Inherent Resolve," Warren said at a Pentagon briefing from Baghdad, using the name for the US military operation against the Islamic State group, which is also known as ISIS or ISIL.

"Our combat operations against ISIL continue as planned, and we are striking in both Iraq and Syria," added Warren, a spokesman for the US-led military campaign against the group.

Warren later reaffirmed that the US was not involved in the downing of the plane.

"This is Turkey and Russia. This is their incident," he said. "Our focus is on ISIL. The US military's feeling is our mission is to fight ISIL in Syria and Iraq … That's what we're focusing on."

He clarified that forces the US had trained and partnered with in Syria were not in the area where the Russian plane was downed.

Warren also called out Russia for hitting moderate rebels in Syria under the guise of fighting ISIS in the country. Some experts have said Russia's main goal in Syria is to prop up the regime of President Bashar Assad, who has killed thousands of civilians as he struggles to maintain power amid a four-year-long civil war.

Warren said most of Russia's strikes had been of "a direct benefit to the Assad regime, and it's the Assad regime that's the problem here," adding that Assad had "brought suffering and misery to the Syrian people and has led to the growth of ISIL itself."

"We've seen the Russians already strike forces that are moderate Syrian opposition forces," he added. "We've seen them do this, and it flies directly in the face of what they said they would do."

Experts argue that Assad's atrocities help ISIS recruit. Showing the violence of the regime can help radicalize people while also convincing them that they need ISIS for protection from the regime.

In comments made after the Russian jet was destroyed, Russian President Vladimir Putin affirmed his claims that Russia is fighting ISIS in Syria and said Turkey downing the jet was "linked to a stab in the back delivered to us by accomplices of terrorists."

"We established a long time ago that large quantities of oil and oil products from territory captured by Islamic State have been arriving on Turkish territory," he continued, saying that was how ISIS had been funding itself.

"And now we get stabbed in our back and our planes, which are fighting terrorism, are struck. This despite the fact that we signed an agreement with our American partners to warn each other about air-to-air incidents and Turkey ... announced it was allegedly fighting against terrorism as part of the US coalition."

*SEE ALSO: Putin: Turkey's downing of a Russian warplane 'a stab in the back' by 'accomplices of terrorists'*


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## madmusti

@proka89 

What about the "Turkmens" ?

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## KediKesenFare3

We Turks are the politically most fractious nation of the Middle East and perhaps even the world. We argue, fight and insult each other again and again with no merci. But as soon as a threat from the outside brings our fatherland in danger, we will react as a team, close our ranks and stand side by side regardless of our political ideology. This makes us unique in the Middle East. One thing we have in common with our Pakistani bros and sis. Look at our histories! 


Our secret of success is easy to divine: It is the spirit of Canakkale, which lives on in every single citizen of Turkey.

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## JonAsad

Serpentine said:


> We don't need to shoot down an American Cessna, we bring down their most advanced UAV and they ask it back, only receive a middle finger in response, yes something like that deserves a celebration.
> 
> There is a thin line between stupidity and courage, and certainly there is nothing to celebrate about shooting down a Su-24 which is on a ground attack mission, especially when you claim it has only violated your airspace for 17 seconds. Airspace violations happens so regularly in the world.
> 
> Turkey violated Iran's airspace in 90s dozens of times, I can already imagine what would some Pakistani members' reaction be if Iran shot down a Turkish jet for violating our airspace for 17 seconds. Hypocrisy at its best.


Let me ask you why you brought down the american UAV? - let me guess it violated your airspace - same rules apply to Turkey - now thats what i call hypocrisy - 
And i believe the - 10 radio warnings from Turkey to Russians were also in span of those 17 seconds- damn the turks speak fast and their missile fly even faster-

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## BordoEnes

A tip for Russian pilots for next time

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## proka89

madmusti said:


> @proka89
> 
> What about the "Turkmens" ?



Nothing. This sure as hell won't stop Russia to continue their actions with even more force than before.

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## Hurshid Celebi

BuddhaPalm said:


> Russia says one pilot, rescuer killed in downing of fighter jet - agencies
> 
> Russia confirms even rescuers were killed by Turkey. Very likely the SS-27 Satan will strike Ankara within days if not hours.



Confirmed Russian CSAR were engaged by FSA


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## Rasengan

Husnainshah said:


> I think you're exaggerating Pakistan's importance. To begin with, Pakistan already has a lot to deal with with regards to Afghanistan, Zarb-E-Azb, India. Secondly, You must understand China will veto any significant action against Russia on Pakistan's part. And by allying with Turkey, expect more action on Pak-Iran border. Pakistan simply can't afford it.



My articulation is very conservative and please elucidate with precise analysis why my opinion on the importance of Pakistan is exaggerated? The objectives of Operation Zarb-E-Azb is nearly achieved and terrorism related incidences in the country has reduced to 70% and next year the statistical figure will be much lower, because most of the attacks occurred during the period of January to March in 2015. The destiny of Afghanistan will be shaped by Pakistan and this is accepted by America, since the negotiation of peace talks with the Taliban will go through us. China is an important ally and we respect their opinion, however they do not control Pakistan and have no authority to tell us what to do. The economic corridor is vital, however in the long term it benefits China as much as Pakistan. Pakistan is not afraid of Iranian aggression, because the Iranian foreign minister was groveling in Islamabad convincing our military not to intervene in Yemen. My question of supports relates to a full out war between Russia and Turkey and not a small skirmish.

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## Serpentine

cabatli_53 said:


> Dude, Russian missiles are navigating all over your cities, While you are not even aware of what is going on but Coming here to judge the respectability of shotting down a Russian bomber something like a small thing to do. If I were you, I would have judged my own country in order to have ballz enough to do such an action/capability against USA instead of talking about 10 years old child stories...



Show me *ONE SINGLE *incident in which U.S jets have violated our air space and we didn't respond despite having the capability. You should work better on your counter arguments.  On the other hand, we have shot down their drones who had violated our airspace and captured few intact, including their most advanced drone, and gave them the middle finger when they asked for it.

About Russian missiles or planes going from Iran's air space, it's because *we allow it. *If you want to bring up that example, is it appropriate if I say Turkey is playing U.S's bitch by giving Incirilik air base to U.S? American jets navigating 'all over your country'? See? A lame argument is easily debunked.

Iran's jets escorting escorting Russian bomber in Iran's airspace. *They go because we allow it, *nothing hard to understand.

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## ArsalanKhan21

Pakistan stands with Turkey.

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## -SINAN-

Rangila said:


> *Russians second-biggest visitors by nationality to Turkey*
> 
> To put the previous posts in context, a sharp reduction in Russian tourists visiting Turkey could have a big impact. Recent figures from the Turkish authorities suggest Russians are the second biggest visitors by nationality.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Russian Market
> 
> russian_market
> 
> Top 10 countries whose residents provided the most visits to Turkey (2012 est.)
> 
> 2:57 p.m. - 24 November 2015
> 
> *Russia tour operator suspends sale of package holidays to Turkey*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBC Monitoring
> 
> Posted at15:11
> 
> 
> Natali Tours, one of Russia's largest tour operators, has suspended the sale of package holidays to Turkey, news website Gazeta.rureports [in Russian].
> 
> According to a press release from the company, the decision is based on President Vladimir Putin's decree of 8 November announcing measures aimed at "ensuring the safety of Russian citizens".



Tourism season is already over.  They will forget that we shot their aircraft in 6 months.

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## Malik Alashter

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and stand with your friends. We have been supporting Turkey since World War I even when Pakistan was under British colonial rule. There is lot of difference between Pakistanis and the sectarian minded Iranians and Iraqis.


Your stand with Turks based on sectarianism.

Defeating isis and alqaeda suppose to be our goal all of us not stand with it.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Serpentine said:


> Show me *ONE SINGLE *incident in which U.S jets have violated our air space and we didn't respond despite having the capability. You should work better on your counter arguments.  On the other hand, we have shot down their drones who had violated our airspace and captured few intact, including their most advanced drone, and gave them the middle finger when they asked for it.
> 
> About Russian missiles or planes going from Iran's air space, it's because *we allow it. *If you want to bring up that example, is it appropriate if I say Turkey is playing U.S's bitch by giving Incirilik air base to U.S? American jets navigating 'all over your country'? See? A lame argument is easily debunked.
> 
> Iran's jets escorting escorting Russian bomber in Iran's airspace. *They go because we allow it, *nothing hard to understand.



With borrowed planes from Iraq, did you already paid for them ?


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## EnggineerShahjehan

Osiris said:


> I think Pakistanis need to get over their misgivings, that they broke up any country much less the Soviet union.
> 
> It was the way Soviet handled their economics that broke their country.
> 
> It was CIA which funded and supplied the weapons, Afghan Jihadis who fought against Soviet forces. Pakistanis were just the middlemen used by American to transfer Israeli (captured by Israelis in their war against Arabs) and American weapons to Afghans.


U r underetimating role of Pakistan in that proxy war

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## Peaceful Civilian

One more success written in the line of f16s.

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## Jlaw

iajdani said:


> LMAOF... I dont know about Russia but I dont think Turkey could even handle Greece...
> Don't make yourself a joke... Turkey is a strong modern and decent nation but not a economic or military super power.


True. Turkey sneak attack another NATO member Greece in 1974 and managed only to secure half the small island

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## ArsalanKhan21

Malik Alashter said:


> Your stand with Turks based on sectarianism



Really !!!! Saudia Arabia and United Arab Emirates offered Pakistan atleast $10 billion plus expenses for sending troops to Yemen to fight the Houthis. But Pakistan flatly refused since we will never fight a sectarian war. While Iran, Iraq and Syria coalition is basically a sectarian alliance.

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## T-123456

JonAsad said:


> 10 radio warnings from Turkey to Russians were also in span of those ''17 seconds''(*5 minutes*)- damn the turks speak fast and their missile fly even faster-


I corrected it for you.

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## jamahir

KediKesenFare said:


> We Turks are the politically most fractious nation of the Middle East and perhaps even the world. We argue, fight and insult each other again and again with no merci. But as soon as a threat from the outside brings our fatherland in danger, we will react as a team, close our ranks and stand side by side regardless of our political ideology. This makes us unique in the Middle East. One thing we have in common with our Pakistani bros and sis. Look at our histories!
> 
> 
> Our secret of success is easy to divine: It is the spirit of Canakkale, which lives on in every single citizen of Turkey.



admirable... but then how do you explain the recent ankara bombing in which 100+ were killed and 400+ were injured ( this was a peace rally )??

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## Hurshid Celebi

Jlaw said:


> True. Turkey sneak attack another NATO member Greece in 1974 and managed only to secure half the small island



Turkey wanted not to occupy only prevent a genocide,

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## Serpentine

JonAsad said:


> Let me ask you why you brought down the american UAV? - let me guess it violated your airspace - same rules apply to Turkey - now thats what i call hypocrisy -
> And i believe the - 10 radio warnings from Turkey to Russians were also in span of those 17 seconds- damn the turks speak fast and their missile fly even faster-



And I should explain that there is a huge difference between bringing down a UAV and shooting manned aircraft and having is pilots killed for violating your air space for 17 seconds, and most importantly, when you are not in the state of war with the target's country of origin?

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## Oublious

Serpentine said:


> Show me *ONE SINGLE *incident in which U.S jets have violated our air space and we didn't respond despite having the capability. You should work better on your counter arguments.  On the other hand, we have shot down their drones who had violated our airspace and captured few intact, including their most advanced drone, and gave them the middle finger when they asked for it.
> 
> About Russian missiles or planes going from Iran's air space, it's because *we allow it. *If you want to bring up that example, is it appropriate if I say Turkey is playing U.S's bitch by giving Incirilik air base to U.S? American jets navigating 'all over your country'? See? A lame argument is easily debunked.
> 
> Iran's jets escorting escorting Russian bomber in Iran's airspace. *They go because we allow it, *nothing hard to understand.



A mullah picture, like always no fuking good picture...

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## T-123456

Well said,this is what defines us Turks.



KediKesenFare said:


> *We Turks are the politically most fractious nation of the Middle East and perhaps even the world. We argue, fight and insult each other again and again with no merci. But as soon as a threat from the outside brings our fatherland in danger, we will react as a team, close our ranks and stand side by side regardless of our political ideology.*

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## BordoEnes

Jlaw said:


> True. Turkey sneak attack another NATO member Greece in 1974 and managed only to secure half the small island



Cyprus is Greece? 

We only wanted the Turkish part of the island.

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## Ind4Ever

.


Dino said:


> dude turkey is a nato country. with 50 nuclear weapons stashed in incirlik air base. lay off the crack pipe


 LOL 50 nukes. Dude do even aware for Russians capability? Now add Chinese. Anyways China will be keep out of the conflict for some times (if war breaks out and if US intervened in SCS.) Even US will stay away from. The Russian Turkey conflict. . . Make no mistake Russia will hit back. But when and where is the issue. Turkey don't care about consequences but you think Russia will care? 

US and Nato are no fools to go for war with Russia. The war was very much averted at any cost even in cold war era. We yet to enter that era. 

But I get a very bad feelings like Russia and China already made up their mind for war and it not just today but it's been going on for a very long time. If you see China's move in SCS and Russia's move with Syrian or Ukraine conflict till recently it's more provoking. US and Nato should had smelled it and imposed sanctions to restrict Russia's plan to add more teeth to it claws. 

Lol you talk about Turkey with nukes? Very funny.


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## Jlaw

BordoEnes said:


> Cyprus is Greece?
> 
> We only wanted the Turkish part of the island.


It was under Greece administration. But the point is, an ally attacking another ally. How can the world trust Turkey?

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## Malik Alashter

farhan_9909 said:


> We want close relations with Russia,we also want to expand defence ties with Russia but we can scarify all this for a loyal friend like turkey..
> 
> But as i said earlier,Russia won't escalate it further


Bro I like Turkey the same way you do but I dislike erdogan who playing a dirty game for his interest this guy will end up getting the whole region in a sectarian war. 

on the other hand I have nothing to do with Russia except it is a friend to my country but russian's helping defeating takfirees the same one who killing destabilizing your Pakistan.

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## jamahir

*the erdogan supporters on pdf are like the saffron brigade from india... they are everywhere and post rubbish.*

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## Gazprom

> LOL 50 nukes. Dude do even aware for Russians capability? Now add Chinese. Anyways China will be keep out of the conflict for some times (if war breaks out and if US intervened in SCS.) Even US will stay away from. The Russian Turkey conflict. . . Make no mistake Russia will hit back. But when and where is the issue. Turkey don't care about consequences but you think Russia will care?
> 
> US and Nato are no fools to go for war with Russia. The war was very much averted at any cost even in cold war era. We yet to enter that era.
> 
> But I get a very bad feelings like Russia and China already made up their mind for war and it not just today but it's been going on for a very long time. If you see China's move in SCS and Russia's move with Syrian or Ukraine conflict till recently it's more provoking. US and Nato should had smelled it and imposed sanctions to restrict Russia's plan to add more teeth to it claws.
> 
> Lol you talk about Turkey with nukes? Very funny.



And these are free fall nuclear gravity bombs on F-16. Not even ballistic missiles.


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## BordoEnes

Jlaw said:


> It was under Greece administration. But the point is, an ally attacking another ally. How can the world trust Turkey?



No it wasnt. Educate yourself.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Jlaw said:


> It was under Greece administration. But the point is, an ally attacking another ally. How can the world trust Turkey?



Turkey is guarantee power there. There was coup military withdrawal of legitimate president and Cypriots massacred Turks, Turks intervened as guarantee power

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## Shotgunner51

Video: Obama Urges Turkey and Russia to Talk, Not Escalate

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## Husnainshah

A1Kaid said:


> The military leadership in Turkey is also very pro-secular. Turkish society is largely secular



...yet. India and Turkey are fast catching with Pakistan on extremism.



Rasengan said:


> My articulation is very conservative and please elucidate with precise analysis why my opinion on the importance of Pakistan is exaggerated? The objectives of Operation Zarb-E-Azb is nearly achieved and terrorism related incidences in the country has reduced to 70% and next year the statistical figure will be much lower, because most of the attacks occurred during the period of January to March in 2015. The destiny of Afghanistan will be shaped by Pakistan and this is accepted by America, since the negotiation of peace talks with the Taliban will go through us. China is an important ally and we respect their opinion, however they do not control Pakistan and have no authority to tell us what to do. The economic corridor is vital, however in the long term it benefits China as much as Pakistan. Pakistan is not afraid of Iranian aggression, because the Iranian foreign minister was groveling in Islamabad convincing our military not to intervene in Yemen. My question of supports relates to a full out war between Russia and Turkey and not a small skirmish.



Well, with what limited information I've access to, that's as precise as I could be. You see, Pakistan's already spent close to 2 Billion Dollars on Zarb-E-Azb and still has a significant number of personnel dedicated to the on-going operation. And will remain so for a while. Now we're talking a struggling economy with hostile borders along with commitments in Middle East and Balochistan to extent; you do some guessing. Like I said, I don't have access to much information but I doubt China is spending Billions without any assurance with regards to peace and stability. Also you are greatly underestimating Iran's influence within Pakistan and it's border capabilities. Don't expect India to remain silent either.


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## T-123456

jamahir said:


> *the erdogan supporters on pdf are like the saffron brigade from india... they are everywhere and post rubbish.*


Could you name a few,i would also like to know them?


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## ArsalanKhan21

Jlaw said:


> It was under Greece administration. But the point is, an ally attacking another ally. How can the world trust Turkey?



You dont know the history nor the issues !! Cyprus was not part of Greece although the 75% of the population is Greek. British occupied the island from Ottoman Turks. The independence agreement gives Britian, Turkey and Greece right to send troops to Cyprus to forestall any civil war. Cypriot Turks were facing genocide by Greek Cypriot army and it was totally justified under the Cyprus independence agreement.

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## Hurshid Celebi

In PDF almost all Turks are united despite to their contrary opinions and religious tendencies. This makes us TÜRK

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## Ind4Ever

I have another doubts too. Some where all nations had smelled that war is upon US. It's been a very long time and lots of financial crisis everywhere. Only War can solve many countries financial problem. The only time people fall in line than protesting for medical insurance or jobs shortages. 

If you see the recent developments in defence sector's purchase of arms have increased in many folds. Changes defence policies. My country too have taken breathe taking weapon purchase lately. Like S400 Sam system. Which I see it as very interesting purchase. India have tilted towards Russians once again with butt loads of money that too from pro US government BJP. Something is going on than you and me know. I think we have entered the stage for global conflict. No way two countries will fight it out alone in today's weapons advancement.


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## lonelyman

pher said:


> This is the spirit we are looking for. Hope it translate into action sooner than later.
> 
> China just delivered russia $15billion to show our support in the name of oil import pre-payment. We would like to share more burden with russia by all means if neccessary.



I say China donate 1 trillion dollars to Russians to fight terrorists.

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## Ind4Ever

I S I said:


> Idiots are those who thinks that Turkey can't defend it self. Seems like dumb Fs forgot how much Pakistan humiliated F..kin Soviet Union in Afghanistan & Pakistan is still in one piece today.
> 
> 
> We're with you Turkish brothers & sisters.
> 
> Fu*k Russia & USA



How Pakistan is still in one piece please explain


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## Oublious

Hurshid Celebi said:


> In PDF almost all Turks are united despite to their contrary opinions and religious tendencies. This makes us TÜRK




Like a boss.

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## ArsalanKhan21

Ind4Ever said:


> I have another doubts too. Some where all nations had smelled that war is upon US. It's been a very long time and lots of financial crisis everywhere



It is a high stakes poker game and the guns are left at the door. Some punches are flying but no real fight on the horizon.

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## JonAsad

Ind4Ever said:


> How Pakistan is still in one piece please explain


Pakistan still is in one piece - which world you living indian?

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## lonelyman

Oublious said:


> Like a boss.



ISIS terrorists.

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## JonAsad

Ind4Ever said:


> Did Pakistan declared war on Russia or soviets?


Should we?


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## Hurshid Celebi

lonelyman said:


> ISIS terrorists.


Turkish Police Special Forces, are you insane or Russkie ?

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## NL_Turk

Isn't this getting a bit blown up a bit too much? 

I think for the coming week, maybe 2, there will be some accusations, threats etc. 

But after a short while people will forget this and it will be business as usual again.

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## Hyperion

Stop misrepresenting facts.... and don't mix apples with oranges...... different times, completely different scenarios. Although I don't agree with what happened today AT ALL, however, what remains true is that it was Russia baited Turkey, and unfortunately, Turkey fell for it, hook, line and sinker!



Jlaw said:


> True. Turkey sneak attack another NATO member Greece in 1974 and managed only to secure half the small island

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## Soldier 99

Ind4Ever said:


> How Pakistan is still in one piece please explain



Pick your glasses and watch Pakistani map. We are united and courageous people. Our turks brothers are also brave and courageous, not like you people. We know how to defend! Never ever understimate us! We look straight into the eyes of death, nothing can make us afraid.

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## madmusti

Jlaw said:


> It was under Greece administration. But the point is, an ally attacking another ally. How can the world trust Turkey?



What are you talking ? There are enough Proofs that Greeks has started too Kill Turkish People of their ethnic Racism !








BTW Kingdom of Cyprus was founded too by an Racist :

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## Hurshid Celebi

NL_Turk said:


> Isn't this getting a bit blown up a bit too much?
> 
> I think for the coming week, maybe 2, there will be some accusations, threats etc.
> 
> But after a short while people will forget this and it will be business as usual again.





It will escalate. Our boots will be on the ground they are already

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## Jlaw

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> You dont know the history nor the issues !! Cyprus was not part of Greece although the 75% of the population is Greek. British occupied the island from Ottoman Turks. The independence agreement gives Britian, Turkey and Greece right to send troops to Cyprus to forestall any civil war. Cypriot Turks were facing genocide by Greek Cypriot army and it was totally justified under the Cyprus independence agreement.



All we know is this:

n 1983 the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) declared independence, although Turkey is the only country that recognizes it.  ] The international community considers the TRNC's territory as Turkish-occupied territory of the Republic of Cyprus.[38] *The occupation is viewed as illegal under international law, amounting to illegal occupation of European Union territory since Cyprus became its member.*

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## Soldier 99

Ind4Ever said:


> Did Pakistan declared war on Russia or soviets?



Russian won't try AGAIN! Lolz

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## Malik Alashter

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> While Iran, Iraq and Syria coalition is basically a sectarian alliance.


That's just lame if we are sectarian we would send all the sunnis to turkey or jordan.

Man our troops bieng around one city for months because there are civilians in it.

we fight in syria because don't want a takfiree state next door.

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## alaungphaya

NL_Turk said:


> Isn't this getting a bit blown up a bit too much?
> 
> I think for the coming week, maybe 2, there will be some accusations, threats etc.
> 
> But after a short while people will forget this and it will be business as usual again.



A Russian fighter/bomber was shot down by a NATO country. That's a big deal.

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## Jlaw

madmusti said:


> What are you talking ? There are enough Proofs that Greeks has started too Kill Turkish People of their ethnic Racism !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW Kingdom of Cyprus was founded too by an Racist :



There was a military coup but nothing about genocide.

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## Ind4Ever

Soldier 99 said:


> Pick your glasses and watch Pakistani map. We are united and courageous people. Our turks brothers are also brave and courageous, not like you people. We know how to defend! Never ever understimate us! We look straight into the eyes of death, nothing can make us afraid.



Brother no hard feelings. I just QUOTED historical event. . . 

Russia warns of serious consequences. Calls Turkey sponsors of ISIS and says Turkey shot Russia aircraft Su24 when it was in Syrian skies and claims to have proof.... 
On topic :



Russia-Insider
*Vladimir Putin has warned Turkey there will be ‘serious consequences’, after the Turkish airforce downed a Russian jet this morning.*

According to _The Independent_ the Russian President repeated his military’s claim the Su-24 plane was operating inside Syrian airspace, although the Turkish armed forces claim it had crossed into Turkey.

*Mr Putin told a press conference:*

Today’s loss is a stab in the back by the accomplices of terrorists. Our pilots and our plane never threatened Turkey in any way – this was an obvious fact. They were conducting an operation to fight Isis.

Today’s tragic event will have serious consequences for Russian-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey not only as a close neighbour but as a friendly state.

I don’t know in whose interests today’s incident is but it’s not in our interest.

Mr Putin also implied that Turkey were supporting ISIS, by giving militants indirect protection.




Andalou
Francois Hollande is due to meet Barack Obama today to discuss the possibly of a wider coalition of nations fighting against Islamic State. President Hollande was going to urge the U.S to include Russia in the alliance, but that looks increasingly unlikely now.

And the ‘serious consequences for Russian-Turkish relations’ seems to be under way already. Reports say the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, has just now cancelled a visit to Turkey tomorrow, and advised Russians not to visit the country because of ‘terror threats’.

On top of that, one of the largest travel agencies in Russia has announced it will be stopping package tours to Turkey from tomorrow – according to_The Independent_, around 4.5 million Russians visited Turkey in the last year. That’s 12 per cent of all tourists who came to the country, a figure second only to Germany.

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## Shotgunner51

Turkey Summons Ambassadors From UNSC Member-Countries Over Su-24 Incident

*Turkey Summons Ambassadors From UNSC Member-Countries Over Su-24 Incident*

*Ambassadors from five United Nations Security Council member-countries were summoned Tuesday at Turkey's request.*

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Turkish Foreign Ministry summoned on Tuesday ambassadors from five United Nations Security Council member-countries over the downing of a Russian combat plane on the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkey's Anadolu news agency reported.

According to the agency, the ambassadors from Russia, UK, the United State, China and France will be given information on circumstances surrounding the shooting down of a Su-24 attack aircraft, which allegedly violated the Turkish airspace during a mission against Islamic State militants in Syria.

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## flamer84



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## ArsalanKhan21

Jlaw said:


> All we know is this:
> In 1983 the ..........



Read the following page

London and Zurich Agreements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The *London and Zurich Agreements* for the constitution of Cyprus started with an agreement on the 19 February 1959 in Lancaster House in London, between Turkey, Greece, the United Kingdom and Cypriot community leaders (Archbishop Makarios III for Greek Cypriots and Dr. Fazıl Küçük for Turkish Cypriots). On that basis, a constitution was drafted and agreed together with two further Treaties of Alliance and Guarantee in Zurich on 11 February 1959.

Article Four of the Treaty of Guarantee provides, "In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of _re-establishing the state of affairs (i.e. bi-communal consociational state) established by the present Treaty_."[3]


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## jamahir

Oublious said:


> Like a boss.





Hurshid Celebi said:


> In PDF almost all Turks are united despite to their contrary opinions and religious tendencies. This makes us TÜRK



here are two ^^^


T-123456 said:


> Could you name a few,i would also like to know them?



...and there was that atatwolf.

and there is the jamaati brigade from bangladesh - monitor, luffy 500 and al-zakir.

and the entire saudi and israeli membership.

and there is possibly zarvan.

just some l list... you can also judge from posts in this thread.


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## fox 2

Jlaw said:


> True. Turkey sneak attack another NATO member Greece in 1974 and managed only to secure half the small island





Jlaw said:


> It was under Greece administration. But the point is, an ally attacking another ally. How can the world trust Turkey?


We have Turks over there you idiots. We went there to secure and isolate them from murderers and nobody can't said anything.
This is how we done.

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## Stalwart

This makes the situation worst. By reading all comments its pretty obvious how divided and anti-peace people have become! Can't seem to agree to common terms.

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## Ind4Ever

alaungphaya said:


> A Russian fighter/bomber was shot down by a NATO country. That's a big deal.



Of course it's a very big deal. Big enough for full blown strikes from Russia. Why they won't retaliate? 

If Russia don't retaliate now against Turkey it will 

1)be a huge blow to putin political carrier 
2)This will weaken Russian stands at global stage for sure. 
3)Insecurity with in Russian allies too. 

So make no mistake. Save your bragging for time being. We will know the result practically..


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## -SINAN-

alaungphaya said:


> A Russian fighter/bomber was shot down by a NATO country. That's a big deal.


A Russian fighter/bomber plane made an incursion into a NATO country's airspace. That's a big deal too.

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## Jlaw

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Read the following page
> 
> London and Zurich Agreements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> The *London and Zurich Agreements* for the constitution of Cyprus started with an agreement on the 19 February 1959 in Lancaster House in London, between Turkey, Greece, the United Kingdom and Cypriot community leaders (Archbishop Makarios III for Greek Cypriots and Dr. Fazıl Küçük for Turkish Cypriots). On that basis, a constitution was drafted and agreed together with two further Treaties of Alliance and Guarantee in Zurich on 11 February 1959.
> 
> Article Four of the Treaty of Guarantee provides, "In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of _re-establishing the state of affairs (i.e. bi-communal consociational state) established by the present Treaty_."[3]


The breakaway Turk controlled state is only recognize by Turkey.

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## Ind4Ever

Stalwart said:


> This makes the situation worst. By reading all comments its pretty obvious how divided and anti-peace people have become! Can't seem to agree to common terms.



OH... What are you even taking about. A country shot down an enemy country's aircraft in a aim to kill the pilots.? And you think peace will prevail  

Wonder why people have become so dumbass 



Stalwart said:


> This makes the situation worst. By reading all comments its pretty obvious how divided and anti-peace people have become! Can't seem to agree to common terms.



OH... What are you even taking about. A country shot down an enemy country's aircraft in a aim to kill the pilots.? And you think peace will prevail  

Wonder why people have become so dumbass


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## lonelyman

flamer84 said:


>



BS, without american daddy, Turks will be crushed like a bug in one second by the big bad bear.

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## Hurshid Celebi

NATO GENERAL SECRETARY STOLTENBERG :

" Turkey said the truth, Russians were warned before often and today 10 times from the INTERCEPTING F-16"!

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## ArsalanKhan21

Jlaw said:


> The breakaway Turk controlled state is only recognize by Turkey.



The Turkish army arrival in Cyprus is nonetheless legal under the independence agreement.


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## Juicer

Hurshid Celebi said:


> In PDF almost all Turks are united despite to their contrary opinions and religious tendencies. This makes us TÜRK



when you support a stupid and unnecessary action and all of you support it , then it will makes you fools ... you still have your tribal mentality ...

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## JonAsad

jamahir said:


> here are two ^^^
> 
> 
> ...and there was that insufferable fool, atatwolf.
> 
> and there is the jamaati brigade from bangladesh - monitor, luffy 500 and al-zakir.
> 
> and the entire saudi membership.
> 
> and there is possibly zarvan.
> 
> just some l list... you can also judge from posts in this thread.


You should stick to the naked girls thread-

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## proka89

*According to Turkey's letter to the United Nation's Security Council regarding its shooting down of a Russian bomber, the Turkish military did not know the nationality of the plane.*

Read more: Turkey Claims No Knowledge Jet Shot Down Near Syrian Border Was Russian

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## ArsalanKhan21

Juicer said:


> when you support a stupid and unnecessary action and all of you support it , then it will makes you fools ... you still have your tribal mentality ...



While the Iranians have the sectarian mentality displayed in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen !

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## alaungphaya

Ind4Ever said:


> So make no mistake. Save your bragging for time being. We will know the result practically..



What?


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## Hurshid Celebi

Russian occupied UKRAINE

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## Rasengan

Husnainshah said:


> .
> Well, with what limited information I've access to, that's as precise as I could be. You see, Pakistan's already spent close to 2 Billion Dollars on Zarb-E-Azb and still has a significant number of personnel dedicated to the on-going operation. And will remain so for a while. Now we're talking a struggling economy with hostile borders along with commitments in Middle East and Balochistan to extent; you do some guessing. Like I said, I don't have access to much information but I doubt China is spending Billions without any assurance with regards to peace and stability. Also you are greatly underestimating Iran's influence within Pakistan and it's border capabilities. Don't expect India to remain silent either.



Pakistan's economy will cease to struggle in the future, since the current projects signed under the economic corridor will almost double Pakistan's electricity output by 2020. Western China needs to develop economically and a strong prosperous Pakistan is important for this outcome to succeed, because historically the central government of China faced internal problems from the outer regions of its empire. Eastern China has become too crowded and manufacturing is a saturated industry, where factories need to relocate to new unused areas. Therefore, the future national security of the CCP Government is linked in its relationship with Islamabad and vice versa, specifically in Western China. Obviously their opinion matters because of our unique relationship, however for obvious reasons the Chinese members are arguing with Turkish members on this thread because of the Uighur issue. I can also advocate the same counter-argument, by stating the assumption that you are underestimating Pakistan's capability in responding to Iranian aggression, because we can also move chess pieces in the board to harm their interests, which they can also try to reciprocate back. I agree with the notion that Pakistani military personnel will be preoccupied with the on-going operation near the Afghan border and this is very expensive, however things are improving drastically.


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## bobo6661

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russian occupied UKRAINE



yee but thats not supporting terrorist ...

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## Ind4Ever

Shotgunner51 said:


> Turkey Summons Ambassadors From UNSC Member-Countries Over Su-24 Incident
> 
> *Turkey Summons Ambassadors From UNSC Member-Countries Over Su-24 Incident*
> 
> *Ambassadors from five United Nations Security Council member-countries were summoned Tuesday at Turkey's request.*
> 
> MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Turkish Foreign Ministry summoned on Tuesday ambassadors from five United Nations Security Council member-countries over the downing of a Russian combat plane on the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkey's Anadolu news agency reported.
> 
> According to the agency, the ambassadors from Russia, UK, the United State, China and France will be given information on circumstances surrounding the shooting down of a Su-24 attack aircraft, which allegedly violated the Turkish airspace during a mission against Islamic State militants in Syria.


LOL 
Run run run. No place to hide from this big Bear hung . FIRST NATO and US said it's between Turkey and Russia to sort out the solution lol. 

Now UN... An organization which will do what? Sanctions . Russia is no fool to respond so lightly with just few fighters and fighter bombers in Syria. Lesson will be in such a way no NATO will ever do the same mistake again. An simple logic.

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## jamahir

JonAsad said:


> You should stick to the naked girls thread-



what is your objection to my post??

edit : there are no naked or half-naked female pictures posted on pdf... a different percentage maybe.

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## Juicer

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> While the Iranians have the sectarian mentality displayed in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and Yemen !



Iranian members of this site have different views in everything , we are not acting like horde and we don't support every action of our government just because we are IRANIAN ... 

but yeah , majority of Iranian hate Takfeeri and Salafi terrorists although some of member really don't like Assad and Iran policy in Syria ....
that why we have different ways of thinking about everything ....

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## -SINAN-

NATO's response to the incident.

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## flamer84

lonelyman said:


> BS, without american daddy, Turks will be crushed like a bug in one second by the big bad bear.



It is what it is but in the end the Russians were warned before.Over the years they violated Finland ,the Baltics,Romania,Sweden,Bulgarian,Turkish airspace.Sometimes the arogant bastards turn off their transponders which endanger civilian airliners and all you see in forums is the Russian strong crew cheering in actions.

Today someone said enough! Hope Russia learns something from this.

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## Jlaw

madmusti said:


> The News Agencies even from the Western Countries say something different but i don´t care about the mind of an Chinese that even don´t what really happened.
> 
> You just don´t even informed yourself and talking trash, for your brainless actions i will advice you immediately to read the News from 1974 !



Turkey is NATO alliance. Why would western news outlet say untrue stuff about Turkey unless it is true?

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## jamahir

flamer84 said:


>



but don't you hate muslims, regardless of whether they are progressive or nato-affiliated??

or does your hate for russia triumph over hate for muslims??

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## Ind4Ever

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russian occupied UKRAINE



LOL now Ukraine is already a done deal... No one will save from Russia if war breaks with nato. . That's the line NATO won't cross even in this recent event

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## Trotsky

nationality is officially cleared and declare by both countries: the downer and the downed


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## Hurshid Celebi

Drunken Russkies downed a civilian aircraft from Malaysia

MH17 Malaysia plane crash: What we know - BBC News

and before from KOREA

What Happened When USSR Shot Down Korean Air 007 - Business Insider

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## Jlaw

proka89 said:


> *According to Turkey's letter to the United Nation's Security Council regarding its shooting down of a Russian bomber, the Turkish military did not know the nationality of the plane.*
> 
> Read more: Turkey Claims No Knowledge Jet Shot Down Near Syrian Border Was Russian


You know that is BS. Talking about grasping for straws. Sure took them a while to come up with that excuse.

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## JonAsad

jamahir said:


> what is your objection to my post??


Massive generalization of pdf members as a self declared expert - the most you could be is a therki swami - -


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## ArsalanKhan21

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Drunken Russkies downed a civilian aircraft from Malaysia
> 
> MH17 Malaysia plane crash: What we know - BBC News
> 
> and before from KOREA
> 
> What Happened When USSR Shot Down Korean Air 007 - Business Insider



The Russians also destroyed a Korean passenger jet killing 269 passengers.

Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## alaungphaya

NATO has no choice but to maintain a united front for the world's media. What are they going to do? Publicly chastise a member state? Behind the scenes, though, Obama will be fuming and Erdogan will get a deserved dressing down.

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## Trotsky

Kamil_baku said:


> For those who has no idea about Turkish army capabilities... Russia simply cannot do anything about that. Two days ago, Russia started to bomb Turkish origin Turkmen people in Syria and captured their strategic location(it was taken back by Turkmen forces two days later), i think, this was the reason angered Turkey and wanted to warn Russia this way. The region is getting more danger...


agreed to this point

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## flamer84

bobo6661 said:


> yee but thats not supporting terrorist ...




Wonder if the Russian stronkians will photoshop Putin riding a falling Su-24 now like they do with bears

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## Declein

Although I'm not the one to support Russia, by far...but..

What happened today was a totally uncalled for and incredible reckless act from Erdogan and the Turkish air force. You simply do not act like that.

Now for the bad:Turkey just handed Russia a golden opportunity to mess with them in any way, shape or form they deem appropriate, short of a direct attack on Turkey itself. Opportunity which will be followed.
You have to be delusional to the extreme, white padded room extreme, to believe that Turkey deterred Russia in any way today.

A masive fck up

R.I.P to the pilots

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## flamer84

jamahir said:


> don't you hate muslims, regardless of whether they are progressive or nato-affiliated??
> 
> or does your hate for russia triumph over hate for muslims??




Hate for Russia numero uno

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## NL_Turk

flamer84 said:


> It is what it is but in the end the Russians were warned before.Over the years they violated Finland ,the Baltics,Romania,Sweden,Bulgarian,Turkish airspace.Sometimes the arogant bastards turn off their transponders which endanger civilian airliners and all you see in forums is the Russian strong crew cheering in actions.
> 
> Today someone said enough! Hope Russia learns something from this.



You bring up an interesting point. 

Whenever Russians violated any other countries airspace, internet forums were filled with so many people wanting to shoot the jets down. 
But now that someone actually did it, the Russians are now suddenly the victims and the good guy. 
Damn hypocrisy.

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## ArsalanKhan21

alaungphaya said:


> NATO has no choice but to maintain a united front for the world's media. What are they going to do? Publicly chastise a member state? Behind the scenes, though, Obama will be fuming and Erdogan will get a deserved dressing down.



If NATO shows weakness now the Russians will get green light in Ukraine and the Baltic states. There will be more Russian agression and blackmail in Eastern Europe.

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## anon45

Ind4Ever said:


> LOL
> Run run run. No place to hide from this big Bear hung . FIRST NATO and US said it's between Turkey and Russia to sort out the solution lol.
> 
> Now UN... An organization which will do what? Sanctions . Russia is no fool to respond so lightly with just few fighters and fighter bombers in Syria. Lesson will be in such a way no NATO will ever do the same mistake again. An simple logic.



NATO stands by its members

*Statement by the NATO Secretary General after the extraordinary NAC meeting*

24 Nov. 2015
|
Press Release (2015) 169
Issued on 24 Nov. 2015
|
Last updated: 24 Nov. 2015 20:00


The North Atlantic Council has just held a meeting, an extraordinary meeting. And we have been updated by the Turkish Ambassador on the recent events. I have also spoken to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.






Turkey informed Allies about the downing of a Russian Air Force plane violating Turkish airspace.

*I have previously expressed my concerns about the implications of the military actions of the Russian Federation close to NATO’s borders.*

This highlights the importance of having and respecting arrangements to avoid such incidents in the future.

*As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO Ally, Turkey.*

We will continue to follow the developments on the South-Eastern borders of NATO very closely. 

I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and I call for calm and de-escalation.

Diplomacy and de-escalation are important to resolve this situation.

Now I’m ready to take your questions.

*Q (CNN): *The Russians are saying the plane was shot down over Syrian territory and never went into Turkish territory. Are you convinced that it was shot down indeed over Turkish airspace and that Turkish airspace was indeed violate?

*Secretary General: *The Allied assessments we have got from several Allies during the day are consistent with information we have been provided with from Turkey. So the information we have from other Allies is consistent with what we have got from Turkey.

*Q (Kurdish media): *Mr Stoltenberg, how could be the situation and your position if tension between Russia and Turkey raised? You said that you are continue looking at developments. How could be your position if tensions continue to rise between Russia and Turkey? Thank you.

*Secretary General: *I’ve think I’ve expressed very clearly that we are calling for calm and de-escalation. This is a serious situation. This is a situation which calls on that we all are prudent and that we all contribute to de-escalating the situation.

And that’s also the reason why I welcome further contacts between Moscow and Ankara. There has been contacts and we would welcome even more contacts. To partly to solve this concrete incident, but also to continue to work on the development and also the strengthening of mechanisms to avoid these kinds of situation in the future.

Actually, inside the Alliance we are discussing how we can develop better and improved measures for transparency, for predictability, and for risk reduction. Because we have to avoid this kind of incidents. We have to avoid that situations, incidents, accidents spiral out of control.

And therefore this is a serious situation, but I think that the new security environment we are facing along NATO borders just underlines the importance of focusing more on predictability, transparency, and different measures to reduce risks.

*Q (WSJ): *What does this say about the ability for Allies to work together with Russia in Syria? Are the tactics just too different? Are the targets just too different?

*Secretary General: *The common enemy should be ISIL. And I would welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. And it is important that all of us, also Russia, is guided by the overarching goal of defeating ISIL.

*What we have seen is that most of the attacks by Russia so far has been targeted towards targets in parts of Syria where ISIL is not present. *So we welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. Our common enemy is ISIL, and therefore I would also welcome all efforts to strengthen the fight against SIIL.

*Q (Reuters): *Wondered if you had any contacts with the Russians or planned any contacts with the Russians over this incident?

*Secretary General: *There has been contacts between Ankara and Moscow, Turkey and Russia but so far there has been no direct contact between NATO and Russia. But we have been in contact with Turkey, a NATO ally, which has directly been in contact with Russian authorities.

*Q (unknown): *Do you have any more clarity as to how the plane was actually shot down because that’s disputed, whether it be surface to surface or surface to air or ground to air missile?

*Secretary General: *I will be careful going too much into specifics and too much into details but what I can confirm is that the assessments we have from allies are consistent with what Turkey briefed us about earlier today.


NATO - News: Statement by the NATO Secretary General after the extraordinary NAC meeting , 24-Nov.-2015

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## Hurshid Celebi

Russia wants top open a corridor and warned Poland not to block the building of a highway from RUSSIA to Kalinograd in the Baltics.


----------



## pkd

Russia sends guided missile cruiser Moskva equipped with air defense system off Syria coast 




http://on.rt.com/6xhd

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## -SINAN-

anon45 said:


> ATO stands by its members
> 
> NATO - News: Statement by the North Atlantic Council on incursions into Turkey’s airspace by Russian aircraft, 05-Oct.-2015


Did you checked the date ?

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## lionheartsalahudin

well there is a reason Americans and Europeans esocrted the tu-95s out of or near their airspace and not shoot them down its not bcuz they think their military forces dont stand a chance aginst russian military its just the 7000 nukes in russian arsenal which could level the playing field ,turks brothers and all messed up big time ,even if it had crossed over and enetered back into syrian airspace it should have only be shot down in tukish airspace and not in syria ,rmember the soviet shoot down of a south korean passeneger airliner the jets were scrambled once it enetered the soviet airspace but when they got closer the airliner left the airspace then again when it enetered into soviet airspace it was shot down soviets thought it was a american spy plane camouflaged as a airliner,anyhow hope turkey has a thousand nukes to keep russia from attacking it or violating its airspace again good luck on asking nato allies to lend turks their nukes so they may also face the nuclear holucast that follows ,russia or not ,putin is too much of a egomaniac to play hard ball with if anyone can push the nuclear button he can and russians knowing how mad they are in love with him might approve it even at the cost of their own destruction thats the what happens when u have too much vodka in ur blood stream

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## Soldier 99

Declein said:


> Although I'm not the one to support Russia, by far...but..
> 
> What happened today was a totally uncalled for and incredible reckless act from Erdogan and the Turkish air force. You simply do not act like that.
> 
> Now for the bad:Turkey just handed Russia a golden opportunity to mess with them in any way, shape or form they deem appropriate, short of a direct attack on Turkey itself. Opportunity which will be followed.
> You have to be delusional to the extreme, white padded room extreme, to believe that Turkey deterred Russia in any way today.R.I.P to the pilots



Okay! So if someone enters your territory uninvited, don't leave when intimidated, then in such situation the forces people know just one solution: Action! Thats what they are meant for. And yes, Russians will also do the same if you go there that way.
When its matter of Our Home, Our Land and Our people, we don't Wait!

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## anon45

Sinan said:


> Did you checked the date ?


edited it, my bad, newer statement is essentially the same though

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## -SINAN-

*Statement by the NATO Secretary General after the extraordinary NAC meeting*

The North Atlantic Council has just held a meeting, an extraordinary meeting. And we have been updated by the Turkish Ambassador on the recent events. I have also spoken to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.





Turkey informed Allies about the downing of a Russian Air Force plane violating Turkish airspace.

I have previously expressed my concerns about the implications of the military actions of the Russian Federation close to NATO’s borders.

This highlights the importance of having and respecting arrangements to avoid such incidents in the future.

As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO Ally, Turkey.

We will continue to follow the developments on the South-Eastern borders of NATO very closely. 

I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and I call for calm and de-escalation.

Diplomacy and de-escalation are important to resolve this situation.

Now I’m ready to take your questions.

Q (CNN): The Russians are saying the plane was shot down over Syrian territory and never went into Turkish territory. Are you convinced that it was shot down indeed over Turkish airspace and that Turkish airspace was indeed violate?

Secretary General: *TheAllied assessments we have got from several Allies during the day are consistent with information we have been provided with from Turkey. So the information we have from other Allies is consistent with what we have got from Turkey.*

Q (Kurdish media): Mr Stoltenberg, how could be the situation and your position if tension between Russia and Turkey raised? You said that you are continue looking at developments. How could be your position if tensions continue to rise between Russia and Turkey? Thank you.

Secretary General: I’ve think I’ve expressed very clearly that we are calling for calm and de-escalation. This is a serious situation. This is a situation which calls on that we all are prudent and that we all contribute to de-escalating the situation.

And that’s also the reason why I welcome further contacts between Moscow and Ankara. There has been contacts and we would welcome even more contacts. To partly to solve this concrete incident, but also to continue to work on the development and also the strengthening of mechanisms to avoid these kinds of situation in the future.

Actually, inside the Alliance we are discussing how we can develop better and improved measures for transparency, for predictability, and for risk reduction. Because we have to avoid this kind of incidents. We have to avoid that situations, incidents, accidents spiral out of control.

And therefore this is a serious situation, but I think that the new security environment we are facing along NATO borders just underlines the importance of focusing more on predictability, transparency, and different measures to reduce risks.

Q (WSJ): What does this say about the ability for Allies to work together with Russia in Syria? Are the tactics just too different? Are the targets just too different?

Secretary General: The common enemy should be ISIL. And I would welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. And it is important that all of us, also Russia, is guided by the overarching goal of defeating ISIL.

What we have seen is that most of the attacks by Russia so far has been targeted towards targets in parts of Syria where ISIL is not present. So we welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. Our common enemy is ISIL, and therefore I would also welcome all efforts to strengthen the fight against SIIL.

Q (Reuters): Wondered if you had any contacts with the Russians or planned any contacts with the Russians over this incident?

Secretary General: There has been contacts between Ankara and Moscow, Turkey and Russia but so far there has been no direct contact between NATO and Russia. But we have been in contact with Turkey, a NATO ally, which has directly been in contact with Russian authorities.

Q (unknown): Do you have any more clarity as to how the plane was actually shot down because that’s disputed, whether it be surface to surface or surface to air or ground to air missile?

Secretary General: I will be careful going too much into specifics and too much into details but what I can confirm is that the assessments we have from allies are consistent with what Turkey briefed us about earlier today.

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## Declein

Soldier 99 said:


> Okay! So if someone enters your territory uninvited, don't leave when intimidated, then in such situation the forces people know just one solution: Action! Thats what they are meant for. And yes, Russians will also do the same if you go there that way.
> When its matter of Our Home, Our Land and Our people, we don't Wait!



No - *brief *airspace/maritime violations are not meet with deadly force between countries not at war.
If that were the case we would have perpetual wars

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## Gasoline

simple Brain said:


> damn it tasted like blood, no wonder it was from Saudi Arabia....



Like blood, huh? Are you sure you tasted it by your mouth or you put it somewhere else. lol 
Take care kid.

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## lionheartsalahudin

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> The Russians also destroyed a Korean passenger jet killing 269 passengers.
> 
> Korean Air Lines Flight 007 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 well so did americans though soviets had a reason to think it was a american spy plane which was also flying on the same flying path and actually intersected each others flying path but what reason did americans have Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## -SINAN-

Declein said:


> No - *brief *airspace/maritime violations are not meet with deadly force between countries not at war.
> If that were the case we would have perpetual wars


We daily violate Greek airspace and they violate ours. Do we shot at each other, no ?

Syrian border is different. We changed our RoE and declared it to the world in *2012.* Russian's played with fire and burnt themselves. Simple as that.

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## Ind4Ever

anon45 said:


> NATO stands by its members
> 
> *Statement by the NATO Secretary General after the extraordinary NAC meeting*
> 
> 24 Nov. 2015
> |
> Press Release (2015) 169
> Issued on 24 Nov. 2015
> |
> Last updated: 24 Nov. 2015 20:00
> 
> 
> The North Atlantic Council has just held a meeting, an extraordinary meeting. And we have been updated by the Turkish Ambassador on the recent events. I have also spoken to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey informed Allies about the downing of a Russian Air Force plane violating Turkish airspace.
> 
> *I have previously expressed my concerns about the implications of the military actions of the Russian Federation close to NATO’s borders.*
> 
> This highlights the importance of having and respecting arrangements to avoid such incidents in the future.
> 
> *As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO Ally, Turkey.*
> 
> We will continue to follow the developments on the South-Eastern borders of NATO very closely.
> 
> I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and I call for calm and de-escalation.
> 
> Diplomacy and de-escalation are important to resolve this situation.
> 
> Now I’m ready to take your questions.
> 
> *Q (CNN): *The Russians are saying the plane was shot down over Syrian territory and never went into Turkish territory. Are you convinced that it was shot down indeed over Turkish airspace and that Turkish airspace was indeed violate?
> 
> *Secretary General: *The Allied assessments we have got from several Allies during the day are consistent with information we have been provided with from Turkey. So the information we have from other Allies is consistent with what we have got from Turkey.
> 
> *Q (Kurdish media): *Mr Stoltenberg, how could be the situation and your position if tension between Russia and Turkey raised? You said that you are continue looking at developments. How could be your position if tensions continue to rise between Russia and Turkey? Thank you.
> 
> *Secretary General: *I’ve think I’ve expressed very clearly that we are calling for calm and de-escalation. This is a serious situation. This is a situation which calls on that we all are prudent and that we all contribute to de-escalating the situation.
> 
> And that’s also the reason why I welcome further contacts between Moscow and Ankara. There has been contacts and we would welcome even more contacts. To partly to solve this concrete incident, but also to continue to work on the development and also the strengthening of mechanisms to avoid these kinds of situation in the future.
> 
> Actually, inside the Alliance we are discussing how we can develop better and improved measures for transparency, for predictability, and for risk reduction. Because we have to avoid this kind of incidents. We have to avoid that situations, incidents, accidents spiral out of control.
> 
> And therefore this is a serious situation, but I think that the new security environment we are facing along NATO borders just underlines the importance of focusing more on predictability, transparency, and different measures to reduce risks.
> 
> *Q (WSJ): *What does this say about the ability for Allies to work together with Russia in Syria? Are the tactics just too different? Are the targets just too different?
> 
> *Secretary General: *The common enemy should be ISIL. And I would welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. And it is important that all of us, also Russia, is guided by the overarching goal of defeating ISIL.
> 
> *What we have seen is that most of the attacks by Russia so far has been targeted towards targets in parts of Syria where ISIL is not present. *So we welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. Our common enemy is ISIL, and therefore I would also welcome all efforts to strengthen the fight against SIIL.
> 
> *Q (Reuters): *Wondered if you had any contacts with the Russians or planned any contacts with the Russians over this incident?
> 
> *Secretary General: *There has been contacts between Ankara and Moscow, Turkey and Russia but so far there has been no direct contact between NATO and Russia. But we have been in contact with Turkey, a NATO ally, which has directly been in contact with Russian authorities.
> 
> *Q (unknown): *Do you have any more clarity as to how the plane was actually shot down because that’s disputed, whether it be surface to surface or surface to air or ground to air missile?
> 
> *Secretary General: *I will be careful going too much into specifics and too much into details but what I can confirm is that the assessments we have from allies are consistent with what Turkey briefed us about earlier today.
> 
> 
> NATO - News: Statement by the NATO Secretary General after the extraordinary NAC meeting , 24-Nov.-2015


 
Brother do they even have any options? Now this comes after Russia confirms one pilot dead!!! What US said? Please post their answer. It's really impossible to stop Russian massive retaliation. This is no joke one Russian dead in Syrian air space. That's what Russia claims and to have proof. Russia said jet was 1-2 km away from Turkish skies. So how could anyone not retaliate? Turkey is facing direct war from Russia. Russia won't shy away to use nukes like West. If it goes to that level it's gonna be our end of the world. US won't do a thing. Almost send supports to Turkey and after some huge loss imposed on Turkey and with Ukraine been the sacrificial goat war will come to an end with some new arrangements like lifting sanctions. Am more concerned and not so far from region of imminent conflict.


----------



## Declein

Sinan said:


> We daily violate Greek airspace and they violate ours. Do we shot at each other no ?
> 
> Syrian border is different. We changed our RoE and declared it to the world. Russian's played with fire and burnt themselves. Simple as that.



And what did you gain Sinan?


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## Kamil_baku

kollang said:


> Good for Syria
> Good for Iran
> Bad for Turkey
> And Russia is a loser if she doesnt respond properly.no one should expect Russia to escalate an all out war though.I guess Turks should stay away from Syrian airspace for quite some times.
> 
> R.I.P to the fallen pilot anyway.


Turkey actually plan to have no fly zone with the USA for that area very soon... you all will see it.. write it down!

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## Trotsky

Declein said:


> Although I'm not the one to support Russia, by far...but..
> 
> What happened today was a totally uncalled for and incredible reckless act from Erdogan and the Turkish air force. You simply do not act like that.
> 
> Now for the bad:Turkey just handed Russia a golden opportunity to mess with them in any way, shape or form they deem appropriate, short of a direct attack on Turkey itself. Opportunity which will be followed.
> You have to be delusional to the extreme, white padded room extreme, to believe that Turkey deterred Russia in any way today.
> 
> A masive fck up
> 
> R.I.P to the pilots


direct intervention in turkey from russia or any extreme response from russia to turkey is ruled out but russia may increase its support to the kurdish people especially pkk and ypg


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## pher

Shotgunner51 said:


> Turkey Summons Ambassadors From UNSC Member-Countries Over Su-24 Incident
> 
> *Turkey Summons Ambassadors From UNSC Member-Countries Over Su-24 Incident*
> 
> *Ambassadors from five United Nations Security Council member-countries were summoned Tuesday at Turkey's request.*
> 
> MOSCOW (Sputnik) — The Turkish Foreign Ministry summoned on Tuesday ambassadors from five United Nations Security Council member-countries over the downing of a Russian combat plane on the Turkish-Syrian border, Turkey's Anadolu news agency reported.
> 
> According to the agency, the ambassadors from Russia, UK, the United State, China and France will be given information on circumstances surrounding the shooting down of a Su-24 attack aircraft, which allegedly violated the Turkish airspace during a mission against Islamic State militants in Syria.


what it called china for? a waste of time.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Thats the same Spanish MP said and confirmed.


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## azzo

This is not about downing the jet but how the Russians are reacting to it. Cowardly. Just like Iran when it got it civilian airliner destroyed by a US ship.

The Axis of meek cowardly weaklings.

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## xunzi

If it happens in border area especially in Syria, Turkey will get *** whoop by Russia.

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## Hakan

Declein said:


> And what did you gain Sinan?


Protection of borders which is the protection of our honor. Honor has no price in Turkey and is more important than anything else.

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## Juicer

NL_Turk said:


> You bring up an interesting point.
> 
> Whenever Russians violated any other countries airspace, internet forums were filled with so many people wanting to shoot the jets down.
> But now that someone actually did it, the Russians are now suddenly the victims and the good guy.
> Damn hypocrisy.



you know by doing this , Russia can establish no fly zone in north of Syria for Turkey fighters !? and then Kurds will have free run in north of Syria and strengthen their position .... 

the Sultan didn't think about consequences .... 

_*anyway a question from turkish member : in Islamic era , some ruler were called Sultan and some others were called Malek .... do you the difference between Malek and Sultan !? *_

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## JonAsad

Declein said:


> And what did you gain Sinan?


Turkey will never be russian bitxh- 
Nor the ruskies will ever try again-

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## Trotsky

Kamil_baku said:


> Turkey actually plan to have no fly zone with the USA for that area very soon... you all will see it.. write it down!


both hostile camps may try their best to capture the area


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## -SINAN-

Declein said:


> And what did you gain Sinan?


Do we have to gain something from protecting ourselves ?

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## Hakan

NL_Turk said:


> You bring up an interesting point.
> 
> Whenever Russians violated any other countries airspace, internet forums were filled with so many people wanting to shoot the jets down.
> But now that someone actually did it, the Russians are now suddenly the victims and the good guy.
> Damn hypocrisy.


Whats even funnier is that if they violate our air space and we do nothing they laugh calling Turkey weak but when we react they cry like babies playing the blame game.

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## PurpleButcher

Sinan said:


> We daily violate Greek airspace and they violate ours. Do we shot at each other, no ?
> 
> Syrian border is different. We changed our RoE and declared it to the world in *2012.* Russian's played with fire and burnt themselves. Simple as that.



Brother but the problem is in this game of fire, Russians can act like dragons.

You could have just sent a picture of locked SU-24 as a message, or escorted the aircraft etc. TuAF acted heavy handedly and that too for a violation of mere 17 seconds :O .


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## mike2000 is back

cirr said:


> A wave of land attack cruise missiles could be on their way to Turkey any time soon。
> 
> Be prepared to defend yourself，for the US will only sit back and talk its support for Turkey。



You are wrong. Any attack on Turkey by Russia will be considered an attack on NATO itself. Russia/Putin himself knows that Attacking/Invading Turkey means declaring war with NATO. For many reasons i cant begin to mention here, Russia wont obviously retaliate directly against Turkey since it knows attacking Turkey will oblige NATO to intervene as well since Turkey is a full NATO member country,plus Turkey will be fighting on home soil, so it has a huge advantage even without NATO intervening. Russia won't obviously want to waste it's scarce resources in Syria by fighting a large/powerful nation like Turkey. So unlike what some fanboys here wish, there wont be any war/retaliation from Russia, but there will be a lot of radical rhetoric and diplomatic posturing, but NO WAR.

After a week at most, everybody will forget about this news and life will continue as if nothing ever happened lol

However i do admit that TAF was too aggressive in this case, since it could have just escorted Russian fighter jet out of its borders/territory as many nations all over the world do. Anyway, what is done is done, we just need to sort out the current situation, learn from it and move on.

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## -SINAN-

PurpleButcher said:


> Brother but the problem is in this game of fire, Russians can act like dragons.
> 
> You could have just sent a picture of locked SU-24 as a message, or escorted the aircraft etc. TuAF acted heavy handedly and that too for a violation of mere 17 seconds :O .


*Rules of Engagement*...how many times do i have to repeat until you guys understand it.

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## Hakan

PurpleButcher said:


> Brother but the problem is in this game of fire, Russians can act like dragons.
> 
> You could have just sent a picture of locked SU-24 as a message, or escorted the aircraft etc. TuAF acted heavy handedly and that too for a violation of mere 17 seconds :O .


If confirmed this was not the first Russian planes breached into the Turkish airspace. *On Oct. 3 and 4 a Russian Air Force Su-30SM and Su-24 aircraft violated Ankara’s sovereign airspace in the Hatay region.* NATO said that the Russian combat planes entered Turkish airspace despite Turkish authorities’ “clear, timely and repeated warnings.” In that case, TuAF F-16s in QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) were scrambled to identify the intruder, after which the Russian planes departed Turkish airspace. Nevertheless, as if violating the airspace of a NATO member was not enough, the Russian Su-30SM maintained a radar lock on one or both the F-16s for a full 5 minutes and 40 seconds. According the Russians, the violation was due to a “navigation error.” Following the incident Ankara said it would shot down any aircraft violating their sovereign airspace as done in the past with the Syrian Mig-23 and Mi-17. 

The Aviationist » Updated: Turkey has just shot down a Russian Sukhoi Su-24 near the border with Syria

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## T-123456

jamahir said:


> here are two ^^^
> 
> 
> ...and there was that atatwolf.
> 
> and there is the jamaati brigade from bangladesh - monitor, luffy 500 and al-zakir.
> 
> and the entire saudi membership.
> 
> and there is possibly zarvan.
> 
> just some l list... you can also judge from posts in this thread.


Atatwolf is not,the rest,i dont know.


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## Trotsky

Declein said:


> And what did you gain Sinan?


turkey is playing a vicious role in the region


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## Ind4Ever

Sinan said:


> *Statement by the NATO Secretary General after the extraordinary NAC meeting*
> 
> The North Atlantic Council has just held a meeting, an extraordinary meeting. And we have been updated by the Turkish Ambassador on the recent events. I have also spoken to Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey informed Allies about the downing of a Russian Air Force plane violating Turkish airspace.
> 
> I have previously expressed my concerns about the implications of the military actions of the Russian Federation close to NATO’s borders.
> 
> This highlights the importance of having and respecting arrangements to avoid such incidents in the future.
> 
> As we have repeatedly made clear, we stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO Ally, Turkey.
> 
> We will continue to follow the developments on the South-Eastern borders of NATO very closely.
> 
> I look forward to further contacts between Ankara and Moscow and I call for calm and de-escalation.
> 
> Diplomacy and de-escalation are important to resolve this situation.
> 
> Now I’m ready to take your questions.
> 
> Q (CNN): The Russians are saying the plane was shot down over Syrian territory and never went into Turkish territory. Are you convinced that it was shot down indeed over Turkish airspace and that Turkish airspace was indeed violate?
> 
> Secretary General: *TheAllied assessments we have got from several Allies during the day are consistent with information we have been provided with from Turkey. So the information we have from other Allies is consistent with what we have got from Turkey.*
> 
> Q (Kurdish media): Mr Stoltenberg, how could be the situation and your position if tension between Russia and Turkey raised? You said that you are continue looking at developments. How could be your position if tensions continue to rise between Russia and Turkey? Thank you.
> 
> Secretary General: I’ve think I’ve expressed very clearly that we are calling for calm and de-escalation. This is a serious situation. This is a situation which calls on that we all are prudent and that we all contribute to de-escalating the situation.
> 
> And that’s also the reason why I welcome further contacts between Moscow and Ankara. There has been contacts and we would welcome even more contacts. To partly to solve this concrete incident, but also to continue to work on the development and also the strengthening of mechanisms to avoid these kinds of situation in the future.
> 
> Actually, inside the Alliance we are discussing how we can develop better and improved measures for transparency, for predictability, and for risk reduction. Because we have to avoid this kind of incidents. We have to avoid that situations, incidents, accidents spiral out of control.
> 
> And therefore this is a serious situation, but I think that the new security environment we are facing along NATO borders just underlines the importance of focusing more on predictability, transparency, and different measures to reduce risks.
> 
> Q (WSJ): What does this say about the ability for Allies to work together with Russia in Syria? Are the tactics just too different? Are the targets just too different?
> 
> Secretary General: The common enemy should be ISIL. And I would welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. And it is important that all of us, also Russia, is guided by the overarching goal of defeating ISIL.
> 
> What we have seen is that most of the attacks by Russia so far has been targeted towards targets in parts of Syria where ISIL is not present. So we welcome all efforts to fight ISIL. Our common enemy is ISIL, and therefore I would also welcome all efforts to strengthen the fight against SIIL.
> 
> Q (Reuters): Wondered if you had any contacts with the Russians or planned any contacts with the Russians over this incident?
> 
> Secretary General: There has been contacts between Ankara and Moscow, Turkey and Russia but so far there has been no direct contact between NATO and Russia. But we have been in contact with Turkey, a NATO ally, which has directly been in contact with Russian authorities.
> 
> Q (unknown): Do you have any more clarity as to how the plane was actually shot down because that’s disputed, whether it be surface to surface or surface to air or ground to air missile?
> 
> Secretary General: I will be careful going too much into specifics and too much into details but what I can confirm is that the assessments we have from allies are consistent with what Turkey briefed us about earlier today.



NATO already been so aggressive in pursuing Ukraine and Russian neighborhood with missile defence. Russia won't back down without many times of blood shed in Turkey even offer to lift financial sanctions not gonna help



Soldier 99 said:


> Okay! So if someone enters your territory uninvited, don't leave when intimidated, then in such situation the forces people know just one solution: Action! Thats what they are meant for. And yes, Russians will also do the same if you go there that way.
> When its matter of Our Home, Our Land and Our people, we don't Wait!


 Who decide who intruded or otherwise? That's the problem.


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## Sugarcane

That's cool.... Russia shouldn't violate the airspace. But Turkey could have handled it better way i.e. escorted them out, as US+Europeans will not stand by them and all NATO treaties will convert in to lip services when the time come.


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## Hurshid Celebi

pkd said:


> Russia sends guided missile cruiser Moskva equipped with air defense system off Syria coast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://on.rt.com/6xhd




*PART of Turkish Submarine Fleet..*....................

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## NL_Turk

Juicer said:


> you know by doing this , Russia can establish no fly zone in north of Syria for Turkey fighters !? and then Kurds will have free run in north of Syria and strengthen their position ....
> 
> the Sultan didn't think about consequences ....
> 
> _*anyway a question from turkish member : in Islamic era , some ruler were called Sultan and some others were called Malek .... do you the difference between Malek and Sultan !? *_



I don't think the ypg would be very willing to trade in western support for Russia. 
Besides, the Kurds are no friends of Assad, their goal is an independent/autonomous rojava. 
I would find it very hard to believe that Puting would give them that by slapping assad in the face all because a Russian pilot ignored multiple warnings from Turkey.

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## Declein

Hakan said:


> Protection of borders which is the protection of our honor. Honor has no price in Turkey and is more important than anything else.





Sinan said:


> Do we have to gain something from protecting ourselves ?



Pragmatically, the Turkmen villages, or whatever is left of them, will be hit even harder. A no fly zone (enforced by Russia) is probable over the area (hampering any attempt for you to intervene there). Support will also be increased for the Kurdish fighters. You also put NATO in a awkward spot.

I see you point is of pride, and sympathize, but Russia was spending itself In Syria nicely.There really wasn't any pragmatic reason for escalating things


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## Hakan

A lot of B.S accounts with Pakistani flags trying to derail Turkey-Pakistan friendship.

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## Schutz

It was probably overdue that someone shot a Russian aircraft down though as they are always pushing it but shooting down an aircraft of a country your not at war with is ridiculous and of the utmost stupidity, they are constantly flying in or near other nations airspace and locking weapons onto the home nations aircraft so they may have pushed it too far, thought they were untouchable which really they should have been as its not a reason to kill people. Hope Russia start flooding the Kurds with weapons now as im getting less tolerant of Turkey and the obviousness of their preference for the likes of ISIS over having a stable Kurdish government.

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## Trotsky

flamer84 said:


> Hate for Russia numero uno


it is stupidity to hate russia

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## Soldier 99

Declein said:


> No - *brief *airspace/maritime violations are not meet with deadly force between countries not at war.
> If that were the case we would have perpetual wars



Turkey has cleared she didn't know the nationality of that jet.
Plus why there is need to violate the rules? If someone breaks the rule, he is culprit, not the one who punish him. SIMPLE!
World should support whats right and show respect for borders especially when its about sensitive areas!

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## Hakan

Declein said:


> Pragmatically, the Turkmen villages, or whatever is left of them, will be hit even harder. A no fly zone (enforced by Russia) is probable over the area (hampering any attempt for you to intervene there). Support will also be increased for the Kurdish fighters. You also put NATO in a awkward spot.
> 
> I see you point is of pride, and sympathize, but Russia was spending itself In Syria nicely.There really wasn't any pragmatic reason for escalating things


You are blaming Turkey for the escalation when Russia is responsible for it. They know the Turkish Military's rules of engagement. Why did they test it several times? Its like walking into an electric fence on someone elses property then blaming the guy for putting up an electric fence because you got shocked.

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## illusion8

Ind4Ever said:


> NATO already been so aggressive in pursuing Ukraine and Russian neighborhood with missile defence. Russia won't back down without many times of blood shed in Turkey even offer to lift financial sanctions not gonna help
> 
> 
> Who decide who intruded or otherwise? That's the problem.



Don't be an idiot and talk of bloodshed in a situation that does not concern you..and I suspect you have no idea of..

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## Stalwart

Ind4Ever said:


> OH... What are you even taking about. A country shot down an enemy country's aircraft in a aim to kill the pilots.? And you think peace will prevail
> 
> Wonder why people have become so dumbass



This thread has no significance in terms of what is going on. So keep arguing. Good luck


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## flamer84

Trotsky said:


> it is stupidity to hate russia




We'll talk about that when your country has 20% of its territory ripped by them or millions of your people genocided.Not to mention communism,and all the elites purged.

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## Hurshid Celebi

*We shelled before Syrian and Russian artillery post, when they shelled TÜRKMEN MOUNTAIN and hit also TURKISH territory. Russia was warned many times.*

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## thrilainmanila

Serpentine said:


> Show me *ONE SINGLE *incident in which U.S jets have violated our air space and we didn't respond despite having the capability. You should work better on your counter arguments.  On the other hand, we have shot down their drones who had violated our airspace and captured few intact, including their most advanced drone, and gave them the middle finger when they asked for it.
> 
> About Russian missiles or planes going from Iran's air space, it's because *we allow it. *If you want to bring up that example, is it appropriate if I say Turkey is playing U.S's bitch by giving Incirilik air base to U.S? American jets navigating 'all over your country'? See? A lame argument is easily debunked.
> 
> Iran's jets escorting escorting Russian bomber in Iran's airspace. *They go because we allow it, *nothing hard to understand.


if you're not careful your F-14s will get shot down and there wont be a single thing you'll be able to do about it.

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## -SINAN-

Declein said:


> Pragmatically, the Turkmen villages, or whatever is left of them, will be hit even harder. *A no fly zone (enforced by Russia) is probable over the area (hampering any attempt for you to intervene there).* Support will also be increased for the Kurdish fighters. You also put NATO in a awkward spot.
> 
> I see you point is of pride, but Russia was spending itself In Syria nicely there really wasn't any pragmatic reason for escalating things



Oh god, i got sick of replying the same retarded arguments over and over again...i'm out of this thread.

For all who can't digest that Turkey downed Russian aircraft....

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## Trotsky

NL_Turk said:


> You bring up an interesting point.
> 
> Whenever Russians violated any other countries airspace, internet forums were filled with so many people wanting to shoot the jets down.
> But now that someone actually did it, the Russians are now suddenly the victims and the good guy.
> Damn hypocrisy.





flamer84 said:


> We'll talk about that when your country has 20% of its territory ripped by them or millions of your people genocided.Not to mention communism,and all the elites purged.


hahahaha brother i am not a real trotsky but a fake and i like this personality. communism is an other thing totally different from the bureacratic socialism or stalinistic totalitarian purges



flamer84 said:


> We'll talk about that when your country has 20% of its territory ripped by them or millions of your people genocided.Not to mention communism,and all the elites purged.


may be your question is different from the point i picked. so requested for clear sentences


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## Ind4Ever

*Breaking News : Worst case scenario!!!! Terror rebels funded by US and Turkey in Syria have shot down Russian Helicopter which was on search mission to find its missing pilot. Worst is it was shot by American supplied missiles. *

Shame if Russia don't retaliate??? 


Double Blow : Syrian Rebels Destroy Russian Rescue Helicopter With US-Supplied Anti-Tank Missile |

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## PurpleButcher

Sinan said:


> *Rules of Engagement*...how many times do i have to repeat until you guys understand it.



Brother, my dear turk brother, please try to understand your rules of engagement will mean zilch when you will be at the receiving end of Russian retaliation. They might not attack now but Putin has been pushed into such a corner by your AAM that he has to do damage to Turkey to show strength inside Russia.

Had it been a fiji's jet , yes you can hold your ROE dear but why to stir Putin's Russia? 

What can Turkey do if Russia rains down missiles on Pro Turkey rebels?
What can Turkey do if Russia heavily arms KURDS for a greater Kurdistan?

The Russians have now too many options to retaliate. My point is why did you guys put yourself in this mess in the first place because of a few seconds of violations (lets say even repeated violations)?

PS:- I wish Turkey to grow further economically and militarily without getting itself bogged down in regional mess like Pakistan got entangled in the 80's.

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## Ind4Ever

Stalwart said:


> This thread has no significance in terms of what is going on. So keep arguing. Good luck


Dude you seriously belive if you and me sing a song of happiness and friendship on defence forum that too world famous PDF then Russia and Turkey kiss each other? You sound like a kid. Go join for PS3 PC game forum


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## Soldier 99

If its not a big issue for Russia to consistently violate airspace rules then why is she reacting this way now and crying like a baby? Show the same casual style now! If you expect others to ignore your faults then you also do the same now. big deal?

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## Trotsky

Soldier 99 said:


> Turkey has cleared she didn't know the nationality of that jet.
> Plus why there is need to violate the rules? If someone breaks the rule, he is culprit, not the one who punish him. SIMPLE!
> World should support whats right and show respect for borders especially when its about sensitive areas!


has the isis respected any rule,law or border? have turkey, america,west and middle east monachies respect any other soveriegnty?


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## thrilainmanila

cabatli_53 said:


> Such incidents will directly change the power projection of Turkish industry... The new targets should be;
> 
> -Nuclear Tech is a must for Turkey.
> -Long range land attack cruise missiles ! (Already have an ongoing project with a range of 1000km range but The schedule should be accelerated)
> -Ballistic Missiles !
> -Domestic Low-Medium and Long range SAM missiles (Already have but The schedule should be accelerated )


getting nukes is a seriously bad idea.


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## Ind4Ever

Double Blow : Syrian Rebels Destroy Russian Rescue Helicopter With US-Supplied Anti-Tank Missile |


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## flamer84

Ind4Ever said:


> *Breaking News : Worst case scenario!!!! Terror rebels funded by US and Turkey in Syria have shot down Russian Helicopter which was on search mission to find its missing pilot. Worst is it was shot by American supplied missiles. *
> 
> Shame if Russia don't retaliate???
> 
> 
> Double Blow : Syrian Rebels Destroy Russian Rescue Helicopter With US-Supplied Anti-Tank Missile |




A month ago when i've said the Russians might become actors in beheading videos if they get involved in Syria many posters laughed at the statement.What did you expect ? Safe zones so they can freely operate their helicopters ?

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## scherz

Now its clear that Turkey supports ISIS and other islamic movements. NATO should kick turkey out since it behaves too agressive and improvident and against NATO. Typical turkish behavior. Its a big security issue.

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## Trotsky

Soldier 99 said:


> If its not a big issue for Russia to consistently violate airspace rules then why is she reacting this way now and crying like a baby? Show the same casual style now! If you expect others to ignore your faults then you also do the same now. big deal?


has the isis respected any rule,law or border? have turkey, america,west and middle east monachies respect any other soveriegnty?

Source: Turkey shoots down "Russian Jet" near border | Page 85



scherz said:


> Now its clear that Turkey supports ISIS and other islamic movements.


yes that is just right

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## Soldier 99

PurpleButcher said:


> Brother, my dear turk brother, please try to understand your rules of engagement will mean zilch when you will be at the receiving end of Russian retaliation. They might not attack now but Putin has been pushed into such a corner by your AAM that he has to do damage to Turkey to show strength inside Russia.
> 
> Had it been a fiji's jet , yes you can hold your ROE dear but why to stir Putin's Russia?
> 
> What can Turkey do if Russia rains down missiles on Pro Turkey rebels?
> What can Turkey do if Russia heavily arms KURDS for a greater Kurdistan?
> 
> The Russians have now too many options to retaliate. My point is why did you guys put yourself in this mess in the first place because of a few seconds of violations (lets say even repeated violations)?
> 
> PS:- I wish Turkey to grow further economically and militarily without getting itself bogged down in regional mess like Pakistan got entangled in the 80's.



Brother! Why are you thinking that way? We are Here and we don't fear Any Putin's father! Courage runs in the blood of Turks and Pakistanis! I appreciate this courageous move of turks! They simply repeated their Great forefathers history!

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## mike2000 is back

aakash_2410 said:


> As much as I disagree with literally everything Putin stands for, I'd love to see Russia teach these terrorist sympathising Turks a lesson.
> 
> Bear in mind these are the same people who were booing Paris victims last week and now they wanna invoke the 'NATO' card.
> 
> @mike2000 is back @FrenchPilot @flamer84



Well, to be honest i don't really agree with you. Geo politics has nothing much to do with how some fringe elements of a country's population feels towards another. If that was the case then we wont be allies with Turkey, neither will Turkey be part of NATO, Saudi Arabia will never be one of our main allies in the region, The U.S will never be allies with many gulf/Muslim countries etc etc. So a fringe of the public feelings has nothing to with Geo-politics or how big powers go about their business/interests. Its all about how each country interests matches. Turkey is a major ally for major western powers like U.S , U.K, Germany and France and it also plays a crucial role for NATO/western powers in the region and has acted as a bulwark against Russia in the black sea/region for decades. So some minor fringe of Turkish population is insignificant when you look at the big picture Geo politically.

So even if Russia was to attack/invade Turkey(which we all know wont happen), It would be not be a matter of obligation but a duty or responsibility of the NATO to protect Turkey in case of an offensive from Russia.
Turkey is a staunch ally of the West(regardless of the little issues we might sometimes have with them) and an important member of NATO and protecting it from any kind of foreign attack is of paramount importance to NATO as it acts as a stabilising force in the troubled Middle East and is a front for the US/U.K/France and Germany and its allies to protect their interests in the Middle East.

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## NL_Turk

PurpleButcher said:


> Brother, my dear turk brother, please try to understand your rules of engagement will mean zilch when you will be at the receiving end of Russian retaliation. They might not attack now but Putin has been pushed into such a corner by your AAM that he has to do damage to Turkey to show strength inside Russia.
> 
> Had it been a fiji's jet , yes you can hold your ROE dear but why to stir Putin's Russia?
> 
> What can Turkey do if Russia rains down missiles on Pro Turkey rebels?
> What can Turkey do if Russia heavily arms KURDS for a greater Kurdistan?
> 
> The Russians have now too many options to retaliate. My point is why did you guys put yourself in this mess in the first place because of a few seconds of violations (lets say even repeated violations)?
> 
> PS:- I wish Turkey to grow further economically and militarily without getting itself bogged down in regional mess like Pakistan got entangled in the 80's.



If all or a majority of Turkish Kurds wanted an independant state you would have a point. 
But in reality Turkish Kurds simply just want recognition as a minority which I also support. 
If Armenians, Jewish Turks & Greeks are recognised as a minority then why not also Kurds? 

The pkk only have a couple thousand members at most which nothing compared to millions of Turkish Kurds. 

So Russia arming Kurds to carve up Turkey is not a possibility.

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## fox 2

scherz said:


> Now its clear that Turkey supports ISIS and other islamic movements.

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## Hakan

*Back in October:*

*



*

*



*

*TODAY*

*



*

*



*

@SiCiSi
*



*

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## Ind4Ever

Ind4Ever said:


> Double Blow : Syrian Rebels Destroy Russian Rescue Helicopter With US-Supplied Anti-Tank Missile |



Russia Must retaliate with full force!!! 

It's more like fight for existence!!! Game over Turkey


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## Slav Defence

usama fiaz said:


> @Slav Defence isn't this post off topic this guy is bringing religion here



*Hit report button.*


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## Ind4Ever

scherz said:


> Now its clear that Turkey supports ISIS and other islamic movements. NATO should kick turkey out since it behaves too agressive and improvident and against NATO. Typical turkish behavior. Its a big security issue.



No doubt US NATO Saudi Turkey Qatar are the creator of ISIS and that too armed with full force in Syria to throw out Asad regime. More and more evidence. So it's quite Natural for NATO to go for war

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## Malik Alashter

mike2000 is back said:


> You are wrong. Any attack on Turkey by Russia will be considered an attack on NATO itself.


Well that's so scary but what will happen then more than blaming turkey of shooting the plane on the Syrian space sir this is Russia not the tiny uk with all due respect.

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## NL_Turk

Ind4Ever said:


> Russia Must retaliate with full force!!!
> 
> It's more like fight for existence!!! Game over Turkey



You think this incident will lead to an existential war for Russia? 
How old are you? 12?

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## truthseeker2010

Hakan said:


> A lot of B.S accounts with Pakistani flags trying to derail Turkey-Pakistan friendship.



sir whats your take on this?, how the events will unfold in next few months?, because currently the situation is very fluid, both sides are in war of words, but once the dust settles how will it go ahead, because this surely will not go down easily with the russians. No matter what both sides do to make sure these type of things does not repeat again.


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## mikkix

Looks like it will be F-16 D vs SU 35 scenario.
An entertaining theatre has to began now. Lets see who will win.

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## truthseeker2010

NL_Turk said:


> You think this incident will lead to an existential war for Russia?
> How old are you? 12?



never mind, a typical indian keyboard warrior.

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## Timur

Hmm remember the first russian air violations and Turkish American response..

So he(Putin ) was warned and warned again..

But I don't belive that Turkey did this alone without American permission.. They always want to have American permission..

I really would love to see how all other ppl wich did not come to an orgasm would have a orgasm when their beloved airspace would be threatened..

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## BordoEnes

Hakan said:


> *Back in October:*
> 
> *
> View attachment 274524
> *
> 
> *
> View attachment 274523
> *
> 
> *TODAY*
> 
> *
> View attachment 274526
> *
> 
> *
> View attachment 274527
> *
> 
> @SiCiSi
> *
> View attachment 274525
> *



The world is full with hypocrite sack of shitts. When we dont do anything and respond passivly toward Russian aggresion we are called "weak" and "cowardly", but the moment we get serious and we respond with proper force we are called "ISIS supporters" and "aggresive". 

It doesnt mather, people now know that we aint some push over country. That should get the message across nicely.

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## Ind4Ever

NL_Turk said:


> You think this incident will lead to an existential war for Russia?
> How old are you? 12?


Dude it's more intense for Russia than Turkey. It's more like testing Russians will and power in 21st century. If Russia backs down it will loss lots of control among global community. Helicopters which was rescue mission was shot by rebels armed by US missiles. Turkey killed one Russian pilot. You think it's celebration time for Russians in general. Think

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## scherz

zenmastera said:


>



typical reaction from turk people. no exception how old they are.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Ind4Ever said:


> *Breaking News : Worst case scenario!!!! Terror rebels funded by US and Turkey in Syria have shot down Russian Helicopter which was on search mission to find its missing pilot. Worst is it was shot by American supplied missiles. *
> 
> Shame if Russia don't retaliate???
> 
> 
> Double Blow : Syrian Rebels Destroy Russian Rescue Helicopter With US-Supplied Anti-Tank Missile |



It was shot by an US-supllied Anti Tank missile from FSA allies !

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## Basel

Situation is rapidly changing in terms of Turkey - Russia relations.

One Dead as Russian Mi-8 Helicopter Attacked During Rescue Mission in Syria

Russia Deploys Maritime Air Defense After Jet Shot Down Over Syria

Edit.

Russo-Syrian Forces Close to Cutting Off ISIL's Supply Routes From Turkey


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## alaungphaya

What is the cruising speed of a Fencer? What's is its top speed on full afterburn? What part of Turkey did it violate and how big is that part?


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## Soldier 99

Trotsky said:


> has the isis respected any rule,law or border? have turkey, america,west and middle east monachies respect any other soveriegnty?
> 
> Source: Turkey shoots down "Russian Jet" near border | Page 85
> 
> 
> yes that is just right



What you want to state bro? We should make a law to break all laws? Whats wrong is Wrong!!! Every state does what it feel important if someone violates its border rules and every state has RIGHT to do so.



Ind4Ever said:


> Russia Must retaliate with full force!!!
> 
> It's more like fight for existence!!! Game over Turkey



Yeahhhhhh like you people do shelling at working borders and in territores of Pakistan and then cry before the world that Pakistan is violating border laws. Now advising the same to Russia that DO wroNG and then start CRYING that she has beaten me. Stop this hypocrisy and wake up!

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## Ind4Ever

Russi


Basel said:


> Situation is rapidly changing in terms of Turkey - Russia relations.
> 
> One Dead as Russian Mi-8 Helicopter Attacked During Rescue Mission in Syria
> 
> Russia Deploys Maritime Air Defense After Jet Shot Down Over Syria


Russia Must have to retaliate. Or they will loss face more over Its a huge test for PUTIN leadership who faces lots of popularity crisis among Russians. Think what you will do in PUTIN position? With power you have? 

It's very easy to predict. US will back down French will back down Turkey Saudi Qatar will face serious problem for sponsoring terrorism

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## NL_Turk



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## mike2000 is back

Malik Alashter said:


> Well that's so scary but what will happen then more than blaming turkey of shooting the plane on the Syrian space sir this is Russia not the tiny uk with all due respect.



What can Russia do? Invade Turkey on its own home soil? lol Moreover the Tiny U.K you mentioned has almost 3 times Russia's GDP(according to latest IMF/World bank figures for 2015),is far more productive than Russia, has far more influence globally than Russia, and even more global military reach than Russia. 
However, if you mean by landscape/natural resources then yes we are tiny compared to Russia who is the world's biggest country by far and has huge natural resources. Funny thing is if any major western power like U.K,France, Germany were given Russia's vast land and resources, then we will be a hyper power today.

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## Ind4Ever

Soldier 99 said:


> What you want to state bro? We should make a law to break all laws? Whats wrong is Wrong!!! Every state does what it feel important if someone violates its border rules and every state has RIGHT to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeahhhhhh like you people do shelling at working borders and in territores of Pakistan and then cry before the world that Pakistan is violating border laws. Now advising the same to Russia that DO wroNG and then start CRYING that she has beaten me. Stop this hypocrisy and wake up!



Sorry it's not a good idea to bring in off topic. It's more serious than your childish war mongering and hate... SU


----------



## PurpleButcher

Soldier 99 said:


> Brother! Why are you thinking that way? We are Here and we don't fear Any Putin's father! Courage runs in the blood of Turks and Pakistanis! *I appreciate this courageous move of turks*! They simply repeated their Great forefathers history!



Brother in my opinion its indeed a courageous but at the same time rash and short sighted move. In the bigger picture, another Muslim country has just pissed off a semi super power (in military terms) for a reason that could have been easily ignored.

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## Dino

Malik Alashter said:


> Bro I like Turkey the same way you do but I dislike erdogan who playing a dirty game for his interest this guy will end up getting the whole region in a sectarian war.
> 
> on the other hand I have nothing to do with Russia except it is a friend to my country but russian's helping defeating takfirees the same one who killing destabilizing your Pakistan.



dude, you dumb jordanian shouldnt even bring up erdogan. unlike your playstation king who likes to play dumb and frolicks with war criminals like sissi and allows bashar to kill arabs, erdogan does not take kindly to genocidal maniacs.


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## Basel

Ind4Ever said:


> Russi
> 
> Russia Must have to retaliate. Or they will loss face more over Its a huge test for PUTIN leadership who faces lots of popularity crisis among Russians. Think what you will do in PUTIN position? With power you have?
> 
> It's very easy to predict. US will back down French will back down Turkey Saudi Qatar will face serious problem for sponsoring terrorism



Russians have to take very calculated move, if they want to retaliate.

One move they can try is to lure TuAF into Syrian airspace then they can go for shooting spree from sea, ground and air against them.


----------



## farhan_9909

Ind4Ever said:


> Russi
> 
> Russia Must have to retaliate. Or they will loss face more over Its a huge test for PUTIN leadership who faces lots of popularity crisis among Russians. Think what you will do in PUTIN position? With power you have?
> 
> It's very easy to predict. US will back down French will back down *Turkey Saudi Qatar will face serious problem for sponsoring terrorism*



So the combination of Turkey-Qatar-KSA armed forces are nothing against russia?for conventional front?Russia is also bankrupt,so apart from airstrikes,they can't even deploy soldiers.

stop talking like a fool

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## Soldier 99

Ind4Ever said:


> Sorry it's not a good idea to bring in off topic. It's more serious than your childish war mongering and hate... SU



and its way more serious for peace of world that you keep your war mongering and outrageous ideas upto you. Its better to preach "justice and respect for law" than to suggest "retaliations" esp when you are at fault.


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## bobo6661

farhan_9909 said:


> So the combination of Turkey-Qatar-KSA armed forces are nothing against russia?for conventional front?Russia is also bankrupt,so apart from airstrikes,they can't even deploy soldiers.
> 
> stop talking like a fool



nah china is sponsoring them now


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## notorious_eagle

Basel said:


> Russians have to take very calculated move, if they want to retaliate.
> 
> One move they can try is to lure TuAF into Syrian airspace then they can go for shooting spree from sea, ground and air against them.



I doubt it if they will react militarily. I even doubt if the Turks will adopt aggressive posture, i am quite sure the message would have been relayed to the TUAF to avoid any engagement or aggressive posturing. Turkey hasn't gained anything out of this engagement, they are panicking and this is why they are summoning Foreign Envoys to explain their side of the story. 

I would actually argue, this was a miscalculation by Turkey. They have given a carte blance to the Russians to increase their deployment, target the ethnic Turkmen Milita with impunity and most importantly they might have just given a new friend to the PKK. Things could have been better if the pilots had survived, but they didn't and this mess will get even more uglier. Turkey has not gained anything out of this encounter, in fact it might have just given the PKK a new buddy.

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## matmat26

This forum is full of Indian and Chinese children. Arası..bl 10 to 16 years old bla bla ..

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## alaungphaya

notorious_eagle said:


> I doubt it if they will react militarily. I even doubt if the Turks will adopt aggressive posture, i am quite sure the message would have been relayed to the TUAF to avoid any engagement or aggressive posturing. Turkey hasn't gained anything out of this engagement, they are panicking and this is why they are summoning Foreign Envoys to explain their side of the story.
> 
> I would actually argue, this was a miscalculation by Turkey. They have given a carte blance to the Russians to increase their deployment, target the ethnic Turkmen Milita with impunity and most importantly they might have just given a new friend to the PKK. Things could have been better if the pilots had survived, but they didn't and this mess will get even more uglier. Turkey has not gained anything out of this encounter, in fact it might have just given the PKK a new buddy.



Absolutely. Behind the scenes, I'm sure Erdogan is getting a lecture from his NATO buddies. It's telling that the story quickly broke that it was the PM Devotglu or what not who made the executive decision.

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## Basel

notorious_eagle said:


> I doubt it if they will react militarily. I even doubt if the Turks will adopt aggressive posture, i am quite sure the message would have been relayed to the TUAF to avoid any engagement or aggressive posturing. Turkey hasn't gained anything out of this engagement, they are panicking and this is why they are summoning Foreign Envoys to explain their side of the story.
> 
> I would actually argue, this was a miscalculation by Turkey. They have given a carte blance to the Russians to increase their deployment, target the ethnic Turkmen Milita with impunity and most importantly they might have just given a new friend to the PKK. Things could have been better if the pilots had survived, but they didn't and this mess will get even more uglier. Turkey has not gained anything out of this encounter, in fact it might have just given the PKK a new buddy.



Not just survival of pilots, but rescue helicopter is destroyed too by rebels, a video was shown by news channel in which TOW missile was used to destroy landed helicopter.


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## waz

I'm currently going through this whole thread. There have been numerous complaints about the language and rhetoric used. If you have done something wrong, then prepare yourself for a ban.

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## nik141993




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## madooxno9

one thing i am sure about : Russians are no more going for holidays to turkey. What will happen to turkish men there


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## waz

balixd said:


> what has really shocked me is the War mongering on this thread ----



What do you expect bro. Welcome to the world of defence forums, with many mall soldiers who think a war is like a game of team death match on Call of Duty.

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## anon45

Ind4Ever said:


> Brother do they even have any options? Now this comes after Russia confirms one pilot dead!!! *What US said? Please post their answer. *It's really impossible to stop Russian massive retaliation. This is no joke one Russian dead in Syrian air space. That's what Russia claims and to have proof. Russia said jet was 1-2 km away from Turkish skies. So how could anyone not retaliate? Turkey is facing direct war from Russia. Russia won't shy away to use nukes like West. If it goes to that level it's gonna be our end of the world. US won't do a thing. Almost send supports to Turkey and after some huge loss imposed on Turkey and with Ukraine been the sacrificial goat war will come to an end with some new arrangements like lifting sanctions. Am more concerned and not so far from region of imminent conflict.



ok

*Obama: Turkey has the right to defend itself and its airspace*



By Kevin Liptak, CNN White House Producer



Updated 2:06 PM ET, Tue November 24, 2015













[paste:font size="5"]

Obama, Hollande pledge solidarity to fight ISIS 00:52
*Story highlights[/paste:font]*



*

Hollande has said greater cooperation between the United States and Russia is required in battling ISIS

The White House signaled Monday that it already believes U.S. contributions to the anti-ISIS effort are sufficient
*
*Washington (CNN)Turkey's downing of a Russian fighter plane shouldn't lead to further wartime escalation in the region, President Barack Obama insisted at a press conference Tuesday.*

*But he maintained that Turkey had a right to defend its airspace and charged that Russian air activity near the Turkey-Syria border has contributed to the crisis.

"This points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations," Obama said. "They are operating very close to a Turkish border, and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries."*

*Turkey said Tuesday it shot down the Russian plane with a missile strike after repeated warnings to the plane that it had flown over its territory.*

*Saying he expected to speak with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan in the coming days to discuss the incident, Obama urged Russia and Turkey to communicate about the details of the operation in order to decrease the chance of escalation.*

*The downing of the Russian plane complicated Hollande's visit to the White House, where he pressed Obama for greater global cooperation on battling ISIS, including with Moscow. Obama appeared resistant to forming any new alliances in battling ISIS, saying he'd already convened more than 60 nations in a bid to curb the group's territorial gains in Iraq and Syria.*

*Hollande has openly called for a greater international effort to push back ISIS, whose killing spree in Paris two weeks ago was the worst terror attack on French soil in more than half a century.*

*READ: Putin calls plane's downing by Turkey 'stab in the back'*

*He said Tuesday greater cooperation between the United States and Russia is required in battling ISIS, though persistent U.S. skepticism about Putin's intentions in Syria have until now prevented any significant military coordination between the two countries.*

*"We want to gather all countries," Hollande said. "We do not want to exclude anyone."*

*But he also said Russia must pledge to target ISIS terrorists instead of moderate Syrian forces opposed to the government of Bashar al-Assad, a requirement Obama also insisted upon during Tuesday's press conference.*

*"Russia right now is a coalition of two -- Iran and Russia -- supporting Assad," Obama said.*

*"Russia's the outlier," he added, noting that strikes against moderate opposition fighters "bolster the Assad regime."*

*Obama also cited the incident with Turkey as a reason for Russia to turn its focus to fighting only ISIS in Syria, saying that "some of those conflicts or potential for escalation are less likely to occur" if it narrowed its sights.*

*He said the encounter "underscores the importance of our moving the political track along as quickly as possible" when it comes to resolving the Syrian civil war, which ISIS has exploited to seize territory.*

*After the press conference, Vice President Joe Biden told reporters gathered in the East Room that he believed "Putin is coming to the realization that Assad should transition out."*

*Without any major new commitments to announce alongside Hollande, Obama instead touted a new intelligence sharing agreement announced last week that has helped France target ISIS sites in Raqqa, Syria. And hecalled on Europe to do more to stop the flow of foreign fighters, share passenger lists and exchange information across borders.*

*READ: Obama and Hollande meet: What a différence in U.S.-French relations*

*Calling ISIS a "scourge" that "must be defeated," Obama said the U.S. stood with France after the brutal massacre in Paris.*

*"We'll deliver justice to these terrorists and those who sent them," Obama said. ISIS "cannot be tolerated. It must be destroyed. And we must do it together."*

*Hollande's visit to Washington comes amid a spate of jet-set diplomacy for the French leader. He'll meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel Wednesday. He met in Paris with British Prime Minister David Cameron Monday.*

*Obama, who returned from a week-long foreign swing on Monday, made clear in the aftermath of the Paris attacks he wasn't considering a change in strategy, saying instead he was planning to intensify the U.S.-led coalition's air campaign in Iraq and Syria.*

*In his first press conference after the attacks, in Antalya, Turkey, Obama argued testily that alternative plans from Republicans ignored realities on the ground, saying that his own interactions with wounded troops instilled a wariness toward war.*

*After coming under intense criticism for his response to the attacks, Obama turned up his rhetoric on ISIS Sunday, saying during a press conference in Malaysia that his efforts to stamp out the group would succeed.*

*But he nonetheless departed Asia insisting the strategy he's utilized against ISIS is working -- and that other options, like sending in ground troops, aren't being considered.*

*The White House signaled Monday that it already believes U.S. contributions to the anti-ISIS effort are sufficient.*

*"The United States is certainly pulling more than our own weight when it comes to the contribution behind this coalition," White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said. "That's something that we're glad to do. That is in line with the long tradition of American leadership. It certainly is a tradition that this president believes in."*


Obama: Turkey has the right to defend itself - CNNPolitics.com

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## Hurshid Celebi

Russian Government Spokesman PETKOV official :

Peskov: Putin Türkiye'yi tehdit etmedi - Dünya Haberleri

"President Putin didn't want to threaten Turkey in anyway, it is misunderstanding !!


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## Jaanbaz

Putin met his match. Erdogan and Putin both one man show screwing their country.

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## Husky

Any information about what kind of missile Turkey used?


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## Zain Ul Abideen Trimzy

‪#‎Russia‬ announces plan of action after ‪#‎Turkey‬ shot down their bomber jet.

Three steps as announced by top brass:

1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets.

2.Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger.

3.Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended.
source Pakistan affairs facebook page

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## Malik Alashter

mike2000 is back said:


> Invade Turkey


Who talk about invading is that all what come to your mind how about deploying AD system near the borders of turkey and hunting any Turkish plane getting any closer.

How about sending their cruise misslis through Turkey what they can do ( Turks )
how about targetting the Turkish land with some cruise missiles in retaliation what you can do.

BTW today I read here the bbc blame turkey for shooting down the Russian plane inside Syria.



mike2000 is back said:


> 3 times Russia's GDP



Well, GDP ain't every thing the Russians rich enough to make thousands of military hardware to overwhelm the nato at any time take for example the eurofighter costing at least 3-4 times more than the most expensive Russian fighter do you think the su-30 or even the mig 29smt is good enough to cause you head ache now we are not talikng about their land forces or the worst their ability to make big numbers of cruise missiles.

I really shocked with their ability to dispatch hundreds of these missiles on terrorist alone.

But the most important question why should you stand with Turkey against Russia that fight extremism while turkey support them!! don't you think what happen in france should make you think twice before you make any move

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## SiCiSi

Zain Ul Abideen Trimzy said:


> ‪#‎Russia‬ announces plan of action after ‪#‎Turkey‬ shot down their bomber jet.
> 
> Three steps as announced by top brass:
> 
> 1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets.
> 
> 2.Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger.
> 
> 3.Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended.
> source Pakistan affairs facebook page



My connections in the SVR are hearing chatter that some might be called back from less important assignments. Something is about to happen.

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## Hack-Hook

mike2000 is back said:


> What can Russia do? Invade Turkey on its own home soil? lol Moreover the Tiny U.K you mentioned has almost 3 times Russia's GDP(according to latest IMF/World bank figures for 2015),is far more productive than Russia, has far more influence globally than Russia, and even more global military reach than Russia.
> However, if you mean by landscape/natural resources then yes we are tiny compared to Russia who is the world's biggest country by far and has huge natural resources. Funny thing is if any major western power like U.K,France, Germany were given Russia's vast land and resources, then we will be a hyper power today.


What did we do when Israel killed some of our fighters when they were fighting ISIS in Syria and then they claimed they didn't knew their nationality ?


----------



## Malik Alashter

waz said:


> I'm currently going through this whole thread. There have been numerous complaints about the language and rhetoric used. If you have done something wrong, then prepare yourself for a ban.


Loool, that's a very self confidence and cold blood warning so do you think @waz I have to prepaire my stuff to leave or I'm still clean. ha ha ha ha ha that was funny waz thanks bro.

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## bobo6661

SiCiSi said:


> My connections in the SVR are hearing chatter that some might be called back from less important assignments. Something is about to happen.



And what will they achieve?


----------



## Basel

SiCiSi said:


> My connections in the SVR are hearing chatter that some might be called back from less important assignments. Something is about to happen.



What type of "some" is about to happened? Please enlighten us.

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## Soldier 99

madooxno9 said:


> one thing i am sure about : Russians are no more going for holidays to turkey. What will happen to turkish men there



No such thing is going to happen. Tourists, anywhere in world, usually don't calculate political affairs for vacations' spot.

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## Hurshid Celebi

S


bobo6661 said:


> And what will they achieve?



*Supporting TERRORISTS against TURKEY, possible weapon deliveries and logistics for bomb attacks in Turkey*


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## SiCiSi

bobo6661 said:


> And what will they achieve?



Any objectives they are given.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Basel said:


> What type of "some" is about to happened? Please enlighten us.


Read my post


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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> S
> 
> 
> *Supporting TERRORISTS against TURKEY, possible weapon deliveries and logistics for bomb attacks in Turkey*



Too easy. 

The SVR can however, easily arrange a few hundred Ebola cases anywhere in the world. That is way more fun than mere explosions.

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## waz

Malik Alashter said:


> Loool, that's a very self confidence and cold blood warning so do you think @waz I have to prepaire my stuff to leave or I'm still clean. ha ha ha ha ha that was funny waz thanks bro.



Well I'm getting there. I'm currently at page 13 bro.

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## bobo6661

SiCiSi said:


> Any objectives they are given.


First a stupid post then a stupid answer ... I mean what will russia achieve with a reaction like this ... make your ego grow and should we get ready for nuclear winter?



SiCiSi said:


> Too easy.
> 
> The SVR can however, easily arrange a few hundred Ebola cases anywhere in the world. That is way more fun than mere explosions.


omg ... what a moron ...

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## Zain Ul Abideen Trimzy

SiCiSi said:


> Too easy.
> 
> The SVR can however, easily arrange a few hundred Ebola cases anywhere in the world. That is way more fun than mere explosions.


whats SVR didnt knew this Abbre before :/


----------



## xenon54 out

waz said:


> Well I'm getting there. I'm currently at page 13 bro.


According to my observation 80% of well known trolls should be eliminated when you reach 60. page.

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## SiCiSi

bobo6661 said:


> First a stupid post then a stupid answer ... I mean what will russia achieve with a reaction like this ... make your ego grow and should get ready for nuclear winter?



You asked, what they will do. I told you. Now if your brain is incapable of handling a simple answer, thats not my fault.

As for nuclear winter. Nuclear war is coming. Its a question of when, not if.

We are well prepared for it. What about Poland?



Zain Ul Abideen Trimzy said:


> whats SVR didnt knew this Abbre before :/



Its a really nice Range Rover.

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## bobo6661

SiCiSi said:


> We are well prepared for it. What about Poland?



yee i know you are

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## SiCiSi

bobo6661 said:


> yee i know you are[/IMG]



What an amazing rebuttal. You are very smart.

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## Malik Alashter

waz said:


> Well I'm getting there. I'm currently at page 13 bro.


Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha well We will meet at the pages 80 and up any way I rally liked your attitude thanks for replying.

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## alaungphaya

SiCiSi said:


> As for nuclear winter. Nuclear war is coming. Its a question of when, not if.
> 
> We are well prepared for it.



How do you prepare for a nuclear war?


----------



## Zain Ul Abideen Trimzy

SiCiSi said:


> You asked, what they will do. I told you. Now if your brain is incapable of handling a simple answer, thats not my fault.
> 
> As for nuclear winter. Nuclear war is coming. Its a question of when, not if.
> 
> We are well prepared for it. What about Poland?
> 
> 
> 
> Its a really nice Range Rover.


and svr agents are comming back from turkey cuz man hunt may be fast  ?


----------



## Soldier 99

@waz kindly don't ban me , i am new na so still learning forum rules


----------



## Hurshid Celebi

Voice recorder, TURKISH PILOT warns Russian SU-24

Rus uçağı böyle uyarıldı videosunu izle | Sabah TV

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## FlyCheatter

...russian defence ministry claims: no violation turk airspace at any time, to the contrary turkish f-16 crossed border shot down su-24 :

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## Hurshid Celebi

Dutch KLM Pilot ;

" we listened to the warnings on international emergency frequency!

Hollandalı pilot: Türkiye'nin düşürülen uçağa yaptığı ikazları duyduk - Güncel Haberler


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## dadeechi




----------



## SiCiSi

alaungphaya said:


> How do you prepare for a nuclear war?



Population dispersal.
Underground bunkers.
Food storage/water safety programs.
Enough weapons and equipment in different locations to survive following bio/chemical weapons attakcs / nuclear fallout.

Most importantly, Developing enough nuclear weapons to make sure that your enemy wont be left standing as well.

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## FlyCheatter

Lt.Gen. Sergei Rudskoy : the place of the su-24 fall is controlled by one of the most radical part of terrorists, also including majority of russian citizens (form caucases obviously) taking place in the "party"


----------



## Hurshid Celebi

FlyCheatter said:


> ...russian defence ministry claims: no violation turk airspace at any time, to the contrary turkish f-16 crossed border shot down su-24 :




*Legendary SU-24 which paralyzed a TICONDEROGA cruiser and Russian AD in Syria ?
Don't make me laugh !*



FlyCheatter said:


> Lt.Gen. Sergei Rudskoy : the place of the su-24 fall is controlled by one of the most radical part of terrorists, also including majority of russian citizens (form caucases obviously) taking place in the "party"



Yes Chechnian Warriors together with FSA against ESAD and Iran Forces !


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

iajdani said:


> And those ME descended into an uneducated poor barbaric place when Turkmen controlling the trade route to the East and earning free money. What better did you do?


This is what is fed to you. Yes, the Ottoman empire was behind Europe technologically, but they defended ME till the end of World War 1 which took away one third of our male population. As far as I know, you fell to 200 british + 2800 south india native mercenaries under the command of a drunkard clerk of the East India Company while the 70,000 forces stood still. Recently, I heard that your military officers were slaughtered like cocks and their wives and daughters were gang raped while your 4 feet tall lady officers were weeping. Don't expect this from us. We produced the likes Kutubuddin Aybek to conquer Hindistan and Sultan Alparslan to conquer Byzantine. Don't forget Bengal was conquered by 17 horsemen led by a Turk. Rise and fall are in our DNA as planned by the Best Planner of all.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Population dispersal.
> Underground bunkers.
> Food storage/water safety programs.
> Enough weapons and equipment in different locations to survive following bio/chemical weapons attakcs / nuclear fallout.
> 
> Most importantly, Developing enough nuclear weapons to make sure that your enemy wont be left standing as well.



Did you forget ?
*Chernobyl disaster*


----------



## FlyCheatter

dadeechi said:


> View attachment 274537


..."stab in the back by *terror assosiated/supporters *" to be more exect ...
Путин расценил крушение Су-24 как удар в спину от пособников терроризма - Новости Политики - Новости Mail.Ru

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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Did you forget ?
> *Chernobyl disaster*



And?

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## KTOOOOM

SiCiSi said:


> Population dispersal.
> Underground bunkers.
> Food storage/water safety programs.
> Enough weapons and equipment in different locations to survive following bio/chemical weapons attakcs / nuclear fallout.
> 
> Most importantly, Developing enough nuclear weapons to make sure that your enemy wont be left standing as well.


lol what about radiation oh russian food and water even russian air is anti radiation.Underground bunkers lol
if there is a nuke war both countries will be doomed it is a fact.except for countries with hot climate will fare well than others.


----------



## bobo6661

FlyCheatter said:


> ...russian defence ministry claims: no violation turk airspace at any time, to the contrary turkish f-16 crossed border shot down su-24 :


i will corect:"they"
atlest russians updated the map ... they are not in ukraine anymore



like_a_boss said:


> #*BREAKING*: *Russia*'s MoD releases satellite picture which proves Russian Su-24 was in #*Syria* airspace, not #*Turkey*
> *
> 
> *

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> And?



Do you want to live in caves under the earth and cannibalize yourselves ?

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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Do you want to live in caves under the earth and cannibalize yourselves ?



Nobody wants nuclear war but the Elite of the world and what they want will happen.

The only thing smart people can do is prepare for it.

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## matmat26

Turkish submarines opens to the Black Sea.

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## Exocet

Grey Wolf will destroy drunk bear.

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## SiCiSi

KTOOOOM said:


> lol what about radiation oh russian food and water even russian air is anti radiation.Underground bunkers lol
> if there is a nuke war both countries will be doomed it is a fact.except for countries with hot climate will fare well than others.



Food saved underground will be free from radiation.

Doesn't matter though, if nuclear war does happen, Middle east, Europe and parts of Asia will be finished as they are not prepared. USA will fare better as they are prepared and their elite will be safe. Africa will see mass migration from the survivors.

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## Mrc

I think de escalation from here on is in every ones interest....

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## FlyCheatter

> atlest they updated the map


...woff, who the fcuk are those - "they", .. somany fucktards in the world

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## Hurshid Celebi

Russian Ministry of Defence threatened with "Moskva based attack missiles against Türkiye"!

I hope they will not dare that. Otherwise " they will even not feel what happened to their Warship"!


----------



## RescueRanger

I don't think people fully appreciate the magnitude of the issue at hand.

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## matmat26

The Russians did not fight alone us in history. German, English, Polish, you are attacked in cooperation with Austria and France. You Millets understands the beating. We fought 10 times. You confuse us with others ..!

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## bobo6661

ok ok your to stupid i will correct it "russians"


----------



## Ind4Ever

Basel said:


> Russians have to take very calculated move, if they want to retaliate.
> 
> One move they can try is to lure TuAF into Syrian airspace then they can go for shooting spree from sea, ground and air against them.



Hope Turkey Qatar and Saudis spare poor Russians. 

I really want to know. Do even know what Russia stands for in terms of military capabilities?


----------



## Oublious

jamahir said:


> here are two ^^^
> 
> 
> ...and there was that atatwolf.
> 
> and there is the jamaati brigade from bangladesh - monitor, luffy 500 and al-zakir.
> 
> and the entire saudi membership.
> 
> and there is possibly zarvan.
> 
> just some l list... you can also judge from posts in this thread.



Every Turk in PDF our one put that in your dumb qaddafi brain. In the end all of you will end like qaddafi with ak47 barrel in your a$$.

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## madmusti

MEKO´s are Ready  



































What are some *Udaloy´s or Sovremennyy´s *against those Beauties of Engineering*.
*


----------



## matmat26



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## FlyCheatter

bobo6661 said:


> ok ok your to stupid i will correct it "russians"


...well, idiot, me just say, that you'r eating all the shyte someone post on the thread and than say ... "they", "russians" "posted pictures" ... you'r so badly fcuckup in the head, really .
...Just everyone should stop putting some rubbish logos from social networks and moreover make "long going dissisions" upon they. They as me posted pic originated by MIL.ru, nothing else shown by them to the metter (just to clarify for confused, not the peace of shyte from poland who I belive just doesn't worth wasting me time talking to) ...

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## Ind4Ever

Soldier 99 said:


> and its way more serious for peace of world that you keep your war mongering and outrageous ideas upto you. Its better to preach "justice and respect for law" than to suggest "retaliations" esp when you are at fault.



Will me saying "Stop it" Shake hands... Will solve the problem? This issue is very serious than you think. I don't think Russia will keep mum after this much of an escalation by Turks. Going to NATO or US or UN peacekeeping can't stop Russians. As we speak full blown preparedness of Russian armed forces will be in full swing. 

Many here are talking about Russia as if it's another Arab country. 

Reality Russia Vs US German French UK And other super powers. Don't you think the reason behind this gang members against one country? . 
One Russia can tear rip apart whole EU! Grow up please. Keep your ideology out while understanding the seriousness. 

One thing is sure in general Russians Chinese Indians Iranians will support each other. Pakistanis Turks US Always will hate Russians. Intresting when establishment goes against people's will.

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## KTOOOOM

Ind4Ever said:


> Hope Turkey Qatar and Saudis spare poor Russians.
> 
> I really want to know. Do even know what Russia stands for in terms of military capabilities?


junk equipment which military facts and history prove that.
drunk underpaid pilots is the norm i mean a MacDonald employer in USA get paid more than a Russian pilot shocking right.

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## pakdefender

Egging on either side to escalate is in nobody's interest ... better sense should prevail and de-escalation should be done asap

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## FlyCheatter

... well, 


KTOOOOM said:


> junk equipment which military facts and history prove that.
> drunk underpaid pilots is the norm i mean a MacDonald employer in USA get paid more than a Russian pilot shocking right.


...self satisfacting by trying to humiliate others are "the usual great kinda thing", keep on with dat, boy...

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## ultron

Russia builds jets. Shoot 1 down. Build 10 more. Germany lost because of attrition. Bring it on.

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## FlyCheatter

...either way, as me said above, Russins cannot do nothing much for the matter, .. for now.. futher down the line .. we see what happens

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## Hurshid Celebi

*We are ready.

GÜR class

Weapons:
Missiles: Harpoon SSM
Torpedoes: Tigerfish Mk 24 Mod 2; STN Atlas DM2A4 14 Harpoons & Torpedoes;
8 – 533mm bow tubes

Sensors:
Radars: Surface search
Sonars: CSU-83 passive and active search and attack; TAS-3 towed array





*

TCG Gediz with her new SMART-S MK2 3D radar.






Mk 13 Mod 4 launcher, 4 x Harpoon SSM; 36 x Standart SM-1MR SAM;
Mk41 Mod 2 launcher, 32 Raytheon RIM-162 ESSM 
Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk or 1 x AB 212 ASW







Guns: 1 x 76mm, 2 x 12,7mm
Missiles:
8 x Harpoon SSM;
Mk-144 Guided Missile Launcher: 21 x RAM SAM
Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk

*Sensors:*
Radars: SMART-S Mk2 3D air/surface search; Sting fire control; ALPER navigation
Sonars: Search/attack
Other: ASELFLIR 300D, ARES-2N ESM system







*Weapons:*
Torpedoes: 2 x Mk 46/Mk 54
Missiles: ?

*Sensors:*
Radar: Ocean Master
Other: MAD, FLIR, LLTV

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## ultron

Hurshid Celebi said:


> *We are ready.
> 
> GÜR class
> 
> Weapons:
> Missiles: Harpoon SSM
> Torpedoes: Tigerfish Mk 24 Mod 2; STN Atlas DM2A4 14 Harpoons & Torpedoes;
> 8 – 533mm bow tubes
> 
> Sensors:
> Radars: Surface search
> Sonars: CSU-83 passive and active search and attack; TAS-3 towed array
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> TCG Gediz with her new SMART-S MK2 3D radar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mk 13 Mod 4 launcher, 4 x Harpoon SSM; 36 x Standart SM-1MR SAM;
> Mk41 Mod 2 launcher, 32 Raytheon RIM-162 ESSM
> Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
> Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk or 1 x AB 212 ASW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guns: 1 x 76mm, 2 x 12,7mm
> Missiles:
> 8 x Harpoon SSM;
> Mk-144 Guided Missile Launcher: 21 x RAM SAM
> Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
> Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk
> 
> *Sensors:*
> Radars: SMART-S Mk2 3D air/surface search; Sting fire control; ALPER navigation
> Sonars: Search/attack
> Other: ASELFLIR 300D, ARES-2N ESM system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Weapons:*
> Torpedoes: 2 x Mk 46/Mk 54
> Missiles: ?
> 
> *Sensors:*
> Radar: Ocean Master
> Other: MAD, FLIR, LLTV




If a shooting war. It's all about industry. Turkey has no industry and will be crushed. You know how Japan lost to the US.

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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> If a shooting war. It's all about industry. Turkey has no industry and will be crushed. You know how Japan lost to the US.



After Hiroshima and Nagasaki, otherwise there was a PATT


----------



## ultron

Hurshid Celebi said:


> After Hiroshima and Nagasaki, otherwise there was a PATT




Japan's Pacific fleet was destroyed because for every ship Japan built, the US built 10.

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## FlyCheatter

ultron said:


> If a shooting war. It's all about industry. Turkey has no industry and will be crushed. You know how Japan lost to the US.


...well, turkish boys here gone overexited and showing they "suppa boats " in the black sea, and even metioning "radiotherapy" as they gotten some (american actually) nuck bombs on their territory (who will let them use it as they wish , me recon)... questin is = so what, i.e are the boys threating nuking russing city with those ... one word - fcukctards...

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## Mrc

Situation shud b de escalated from here onwards

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## Hurshid Celebi

I am so scared now and bye, its boring here


----------



## BordoEnes

FlyCheatter said:


> ...either way, as me said above, Russins cannot do nothing much for the matter, .. for now.. futher down the line .. we see what happens



No doubt Russia will have a response, but that most likely will not be militairily.

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## matmat26

The Qasem Soleimani, Iranian agents killed in Aleppo.

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## mike2000 is back

anon45 said:


> ok
> 
> *Obama: Turkey has the right to defend itself and its airspace*
> 
> 
> 
> By Kevin Liptak, CNN White House Producer
> 
> 
> 
> Updated 2:06 PM ET, Tue November 24, 2015
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [paste:font size="5"]
> 
> Obama, Hollande pledge solidarity to fight ISIS 00:52
> *Story highlights[/paste:font]*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Hollande has said greater cooperation between the United States and Russia is required in battling ISIS
> 
> The White House signaled Monday that it already believes U.S. contributions to the anti-ISIS effort are sufficient
> *
> *Washington (CNN)Turkey's downing of a Russian fighter plane shouldn't lead to further wartime escalation in the region, President Barack Obama insisted at a press conference Tuesday.*
> 
> *But he maintained that Turkey had a right to defend its airspace and charged that Russian air activity near the Turkey-Syria border has contributed to the crisis.
> 
> "This points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations," Obama said. "They are operating very close to a Turkish border, and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries."*
> 
> *Turkey said Tuesday it shot down the Russian plane with a missile strike after repeated warnings to the plane that it had flown over its territory.*
> 
> *Saying he expected to speak with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan in the coming days to discuss the incident, Obama urged Russia and Turkey to communicate about the details of the operation in order to decrease the chance of escalation.*
> 
> *The downing of the Russian plane complicated Hollande's visit to the White House, where he pressed Obama for greater global cooperation on battling ISIS, including with Moscow. Obama appeared resistant to forming any new alliances in battling ISIS, saying he'd already convened more than 60 nations in a bid to curb the group's territorial gains in Iraq and Syria.*
> 
> *Hollande has openly called for a greater international effort to push back ISIS, whose killing spree in Paris two weeks ago was the worst terror attack on French soil in more than half a century.*
> 
> *READ: Putin calls plane's downing by Turkey 'stab in the back'*
> 
> *He said Tuesday greater cooperation between the United States and Russia is required in battling ISIS, though persistent U.S. skepticism about Putin's intentions in Syria have until now prevented any significant military coordination between the two countries.*
> 
> *"We want to gather all countries," Hollande said. "We do not want to exclude anyone."*
> 
> *But he also said Russia must pledge to target ISIS terrorists instead of moderate Syrian forces opposed to the government of Bashar al-Assad, a requirement Obama also insisted upon during Tuesday's press conference.*
> 
> *"Russia right now is a coalition of two -- Iran and Russia -- supporting Assad," Obama said.*
> 
> *"Russia's the outlier," he added, noting that strikes against moderate opposition fighters "bolster the Assad regime."*
> 
> *Obama also cited the incident with Turkey as a reason for Russia to turn its focus to fighting only ISIS in Syria, saying that "some of those conflicts or potential for escalation are less likely to occur" if it narrowed its sights.*
> 
> *He said the encounter "underscores the importance of our moving the political track along as quickly as possible" when it comes to resolving the Syrian civil war, which ISIS has exploited to seize territory.*
> 
> *After the press conference, Vice President Joe Biden told reporters gathered in the East Room that he believed "Putin is coming to the realization that Assad should transition out."*
> 
> *Without any major new commitments to announce alongside Hollande, Obama instead touted a new intelligence sharing agreement announced last week that has helped France target ISIS sites in Raqqa, Syria. And hecalled on Europe to do more to stop the flow of foreign fighters, share passenger lists and exchange information across borders.*
> 
> *READ: Obama and Hollande meet: What a différence in U.S.-French relations*
> 
> *Calling ISIS a "scourge" that "must be defeated," Obama said the U.S. stood with France after the brutal massacre in Paris.*
> 
> *"We'll deliver justice to these terrorists and those who sent them," Obama said. ISIS "cannot be tolerated. It must be destroyed. And we must do it together."*
> 
> *Hollande's visit to Washington comes amid a spate of jet-set diplomacy for the French leader. He'll meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel Wednesday. He met in Paris with British Prime Minister David Cameron Monday.*
> 
> *Obama, who returned from a week-long foreign swing on Monday, made clear in the aftermath of the Paris attacks he wasn't considering a change in strategy, saying instead he was planning to intensify the U.S.-led coalition's air campaign in Iraq and Syria.*
> 
> *In his first press conference after the attacks, in Antalya, Turkey, Obama argued testily that alternative plans from Republicans ignored realities on the ground, saying that his own interactions with wounded troops instilled a wariness toward war.*
> 
> *After coming under intense criticism for his response to the attacks, Obama turned up his rhetoric on ISIS Sunday, saying during a press conference in Malaysia that his efforts to stamp out the group would succeed.*
> 
> *But he nonetheless departed Asia insisting the strategy he's utilized against ISIS is working -- and that other options, like sending in ground troops, aren't being considered.*
> 
> *The White House signaled Monday that it already believes U.S. contributions to the anti-ISIS effort are sufficient.*
> 
> *"The United States is certainly pulling more than our own weight when it comes to the contribution behind this coalition," White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said. "That's something that we're glad to do. That is in line with the long tradition of American leadership. It certainly is a tradition that this president believes in."*
> 
> 
> Obama: Turkey has the right to defend itself - CNNPolitics.com





24 November 2015 at 4:18pm
*David Cameron urges direct talks between Russia and Turkey*
The British Prime Minister has "strongly encouraged" Russia and Turkey to talk directly to each other to avoid escalation, following the shooting down of a Russian warplane that was reportedly in Turkish airspace earlier.

Speaking to reporters, a spokeswoman for David Cameron said that he had spoken to the Turkish Prime Minister.

The prime minister strongly encouraged Prime Minister Davutoglu to make sure that there was direct communication between the Turks and the Russians on this.

– NUMBER 10 SPOKESWOMAN

Cameron urges direct talks between Russia and Turkey - ITV News 


I think the two countries(along with the main western powers France,U.K, and U.S) should sit down and talk things out. So next time there is no misunderstanding like this one. Russia should stop violating Turkey's airspace and focus on ISIS while western powers should also increase strikes/response against ISIS which is a threat to every nation.

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## Oublious

Tuaf have published the radio talk against the russian fighter. The begin of the video is not the radio talk.

Rus uçağı böyle uyarıldı - GÜNCEL Haberleri


----------



## KTOOOOM

ultron said:


> Japan's Pacific fleet was destroyed because for every ship Japan built, the US built 10.


are you comparing USA to Russia.

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## lonelyman

Turks have show their true colors, Turkey is ISIS.

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## Nilgiri

usama fiaz said:


> Bro an indian also suggest to drop afew hundered megaton nukes on turkey to kill 200 million peoples ignoring that the total population of turkey is 80 million



Well hes a moron troll as well.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Some evidence :






ANNOUNCE OF TuAF Pilot






SMULATION

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## Oublious

lonelyman said:


> Turks have show their true colors, Turkey is ISIS.




we are good with that propaganda machine....

Some Ukraine people made a beautiful video. Thanks for that...

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## dadeechi

*What's interesting is that neither France nor Germany are interested in getting involved in a war with Russia but countries like Turkey are getting desperate to get NATO involved in a war with Russia.*

*This act has permanently closed Turkey's planned SCO membership.*

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## Kamil_baku

Serpentine said:


> We don't need to shoot down an American Cessna, we bring down their most advanced UAV and they ask it back, only receive a middle finger in response, yes something like that deserves a celebration.
> 
> There is a thin line between stupidity and courage, and certainly there is nothing to celebrate about shooting down a Su-24 which is on a ground attack mission, especially when you claim it has only violated your airspace for 17 seconds. Airspace violations happens so regularly in the world.
> 
> Turkey violated Iran's airspace in 90s dozens of times, I can already imagine what would some Pakistani members' reaction be if Iran shot down a Turkish jet for violating our airspace for 17 seconds. Hypocrisy at its best.


dude, in 2001, Iran said Azeri oil is Iranian territory and sent its jets to fly over Azerbaijan and navy ships, saying that there would fire if Azeri side dont back up... Turkey sent its 10 F16 to fly over the capitol city, Baku. That was the last time we have seen or heard of Iran passing the borders. Seems like Iranian diplomats knows Turkey better than Putin does...

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## matmat26

lonelyman said:


> Turks have show their true colors, Turkey is ISIS.




Yess... Im ISISS... Come ON! 

Shitty chinese child ..

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## T-123456

dadeechi said:


> *What's interesting is that neither France nor Germany is interested in getting involved in a war with Russia but countries like Turkey are getting desperate to get NATO involved in a war with Russia.*
> 
> *This act has permanently closed Turkey's planned SCO membership.*


And when did we apply for membership?

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## Meengla

I don't think shooting down a Russia plane was a good move by Turkey. I mean we Pakistanis care for Turkey probably more than any other country but when Turkey started its policy against Assad we--at least chunk of us, including me--thought that that was not the right move. And I believe Turkey's situation is MUCH WORSE than what it was before 2011-12. *This forum is a witness to how Pakistanis--who are very pro Turkey--have all too often, like me, disapproved Turkish policies in Syria. Our fears are proving right. *

Back to topic. Look at the area where the plane was shot down. Plenty of chance for human error on either part. But was shooting necessary? And that too of a *Russian *plane? Was the Russian plane at all a threat to Turkey in a very narrow war zone area like this place? Perhaps, behind the scene, Uncle Sam has told Turkey to 'escalate'--but beware of Uncle Sam's promises!! Did Turkey have to 'own up' the shooting down? Could they not have kept mum for a while, allowing Russia a 'face saving' by getting away with the 'ground' fire theory? 

Sounds to me like Turkish planners have majorly miscalcuated since 2011 and today's incident was just one more.

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## Nilgiri

Mrc said:


> Can any one comment on fact that sending an un escorted bomber near turkish airspace without fighter cover was plain stupid or what?



In a way I bet the Russians wanted this to happen, so now they dont face any major opposition for deploying S-300 systems to take on any Turkish air intrusions.

It was a calculated move by the Russians, and Turks seem to have fallen for it.

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## mike2000 is back

Hurshid Celebi said:


> *We are ready.
> 
> GÜR class
> 
> Weapons:
> Missiles: Harpoon SSM
> Torpedoes: Tigerfish Mk 24 Mod 2; STN Atlas DM2A4 14 Harpoons & Torpedoes;
> 8 – 533mm bow tubes
> 
> Sensors:
> Radars: Surface search
> Sonars: CSU-83 passive and active search and attack; TAS-3 towed array
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> TCG Gediz with her new SMART-S MK2 3D radar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mk 13 Mod 4 launcher, 4 x Harpoon SSM; 36 x Standart SM-1MR SAM;
> Mk41 Mod 2 launcher, 32 Raytheon RIM-162 ESSM
> Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
> Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk or 1 x AB 212 ASW
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Guns: 1 x 76mm, 2 x 12,7mm
> Missiles:
> 8 x Harpoon SSM;
> Mk-144 Guided Missile Launcher: 21 x RAM SAM
> Torpedoes: 2 x 324 mm Mk 32 triple launcher for Mk 46 Mod 5; anti-submarine torpedoes.
> Helicopters: 1 x S-70-B2 Seahawk
> 
> *Sensors:*
> Radars: SMART-S Mk2 3D air/surface search; Sting fire control; ALPER navigation
> Sonars: Search/attack
> Other: ASELFLIR 300D, ARES-2N ESM system
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Weapons:*
> Torpedoes: 2 x Mk 46/Mk 54
> Missiles: ?
> 
> *Sensors:*
> Radar: Ocean Master
> Other: MAD, FLIR, LLTV



To be honest, the situation should be de-escalated and both countries should avoid making rash decisions. Serves no real purpose.

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## Hurshid Celebi

@Meengla 

Bro. How should TuAF know whether it was Syrian or Russian SU-24, there was 2 SU-24 one reacted and stopped violation !
What should be bombed there ? The next ISIL post is 200 km away !
It was a threat against TÜRKMEN's we are responsible for them. We can not allow hundred thousands to cross Turkish boarder as refugees. 
EU said secure your boarders and not US.

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## Nilgiri

oproh said:


> I expect that in the coming hours erdogan will realize how his beloved country is on the verge of being brought back to stone age era, that's why he will cry on his knees while humbly asking for forgiveness from Putin.



still waiting.....


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## A.M.

Not a smart move on Turkey's part. And sad to say that Turkey's leadership has been on the wrong end of decision making in this affair a few times.

Cooler heads should have prevailed today but I'm not sure why anyone would expect sane decision making from a leader such as Erdogan.

Turkey isn't prepared to go to war with Russia and neither is NATO. Just an idiotic decision all around.

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## Kamil_baku

proka89 said:


> *According to Turkey's letter to the United Nation's Security Council regarding its shooting down of a Russian bomber, the Turkish military did not know the nationality of the plane.*
> 
> Read more: Turkey Claims No Knowledge Jet Shot Down Near Syrian Border Was Russian


Turkey got one of the best 3D radar there... Of course, by knowing the type of Jet, you can know that only Russians got it... It is called politics dude.. grow up fast please..

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## anatolia

FlyCheatter said:


> ...either way, as me said above, Russins cannot do nothing much for the matter, .. for now.. futher down the line .. we see what happens


idont understand where is southern turkey with russian border? what would you feel if our f16s came ukrain and entered russian land from ukrain...you should behave responsible

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## Nilgiri

Malik Alashter said:


> God I left this thread 8 hours ago with just 4 pages look now almost 70 page!!! too many loosers and bored people around.

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## Irfan Baloch

Archdemon said:


> Nothing dramatic will happen, unlike Turks which are hotheaded Russians are calculated and rational, in war you have casualties, this minor incident is, well it is minor, business as usual for Russians.


the scumbags shot at the pilots and killed one of them and shouted Alan snackbar and all the jihadi BS while celebrating on the corpse of the dead pilot
must be a proud day for NATO for giving a celebration to the scum it vowed to fight after French tragedy

I wonder what is the fate of the corpse and the captured pilot? both might be sold to ISIS so that it can desecrate them to further antagonise the Russians

do note though that FSA trades with ISIS. and ISIS sells oil to you know who

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## T-123456

Meengla said:


> I don't think shooting down a Russia plane was a good move by Turkey. I mean we Pakistanis care for Turkey probably more than any other country but when Turkey started its policy against Assad we--at least chunk of us, including me--thought that that was not the right move. And I believe Turkey's situation is MUCH WORSE than what it was before 2011-12. *This forum is a witness to how Pakistanis--who are very pro Turkey--have all too often, like me, disapproved Turkish policies in Syria. Our fears are proving right. *
> 
> Back to topic. Look at the area where the plane was shot down. Plenty of chance for human error on either part. But was shooting necessary? And that too of a *Russian *plane? Was the Russian plane at all a threat to Turkey in a very narrow war zone area like this place? Perhaps, behind the scene, Uncle Sam has told Turkey to 'escalate'--but beware of Uncle Sam's promises!! Did Turkey have to 'own up' the shooting down? Could they not have kept mum for a while, allowing Russia a 'face saving' by getting away with the 'ground' fire theory?
> 
> Sounds to me like Turkish planners have majorly miscalcuated since 2011 and today's incident was just one more.


No Uncle Sam,he had nothing to do with it,why were those Russian fighters in that area you think,to bomb ISIS where there is no ISIS,doesnt that sound strange?
They were bombing Turkmen positions to help Assad.
This Russian ISIS campaign is just a farce to cover up the real goal,weaken the opposition to Assad.


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## Meengla

Hurshid Celebi said:


> @Meengla
> 
> Bro. How should TuAF know whether it was Syrian or Russian SU-24, there was 2 SU-24 one reacted and stopped violation !
> What should be bombed there ? The next ISIL post is 200 km away !
> *It was a threat against TÜRKMEN's we are responsible for them*. We can not allow hundred thousands to cross Turkish boarder as refugees.
> EU said secure your boarders and not US.



Bolded part.
The Turkmen's are part of Syria. A country which is still a SOVEREIGN country as far as the UNO is concerned with Assad as its leader. Only Assad has the right to 'ask' for 'help'. Except those who has invited the rest are invaders/aggressors.

Turkish leadership screwed up so majorly that from 'Zero problem' neighborhood to 'All problem' neighborhood in barely 4 years. That requires some creative self-destruction.

Anyway, I stand by what I said above in my post. Your true friends are those who would criticize you. And so, with pain, I say that your leadership has majorly screwed up!!!

PS. Read John Bolton's article in today's NY Times. Essentially, he is calling for your a truly free Kurdistan. That's your American friends!

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## Mrc

turkey had an important point to make and they made it....
russians sending fighters with escorts will make an important point from russian point of view

now its time for both sides to cool down....
any further escalation is not in eirther's interest

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## T-123456

Irfan Baloch said:


> the scumbags shot at the pilots and killed one of them and shouted Alan snackbar and all the jihadi BS while celebrating on the corpse of the dead pilot
> must be a proud day for NATO for giving a celebration to the scum it vowed to fight after French tragedy
> 
> I wonder what is the fate of the corpse and the captured pilot? both might be sold to ISIS so that it can desecrate them to further antagonise the Russians
> 
> do note though that FSA trades with ISIS. and ISIS sells oil to you know who


These scumbags were ''relatives'' of the Turkmens from the village where 600 were killed by Russian bombs,just a couple of days ago.
Do you think they would care if anyone would say that its against all rules?
Btw,some of them were shouting ''dont shoot,we need prisoners''.
The pilots will probably be handed over to Turkiye.

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## Oublious

Irfan Baloch said:


> the scumbags shot at the pilots and killed one of them and shouted Alan snackbar and all the jihadi BS while celebrating on the corpse of the dead pilot
> must be a proud day for NATO for giving a celebration to the scum it vowed to fight after French tragedy
> 
> I wonder what is the fate of the corpse and the captured pilot? both might be sold to ISIS so that it can desecrate them to further antagonise the Russians
> 
> do note though that FSA trades with ISIS. and ISIS sells oil to you know who




Your pilots have bomb a lot of inicent people dead, wher is your so called humanity?


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## cnleio

Just right now what Russia can do in Syria:

1. Send S-300/400 systems to Syria
2. Gift Tanks / ATGMs /MANPADS to Kurds
3. Send more fighters into Syria airbase
4. Send ships in Black Sea
5. Call for a UNSC anti-terrorism emergency session between U.S/Russia/Britain/France/China
6. Announce to deploy Tactical Nukes in Syria
7. Tu-95 & Tu-160 regularly carrying nuke bombs flying around Turkey national boundaries.
8. *After finish above, clean terrorists / rebels in Syria as soon as they can.*

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## dadeechi

T-123456 said:


> And when did we apply for membership?




Read below news links

*Turkey officially applied to the SCO for “dialogue partnership status" in March 2011, which was approved at the Council of Heads of State Summit in Beijing a few months later. Now, Turkey is waiting for the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the SCO and Turkey as the third “dialogue partner,” following Belarus and Sri Lanka.*

Turkey Renews Plea to Join Shanghai Cooperation Organization | The Diplomat

China welcomes Turkish bid for SCO membership | European Dialogue

*Turkey Renews Plea to Join Shanghai Cooperation Organization *
Turkish PM Erdogan has once again said that Turkey wants to join the SCO. This is just part of Turkey’s larger pivot to Asia.





By Zachary Keck for The Diplomat
December 01, 2013
Facebook209
Google+17
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*12* Comments
During a trip to Russia in November, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan once again said that Ankara would abandon its quest to join the European Union if it was offered full membership in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization.
According to Turkish newspapers, Erdogan made the comments during a press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin. The impetus for Erdogan’s remarks was Putin’s response to a question about Ukraine recently pulling out of talks over an EU trade pact.
“We will ask Turkey what we can do. Turkey has great experience in EU talks,” Putin said sarcastically, referring to Ankara’s long and checkered history of seeking EU membership.
Without skipping a beat, Erdogan responded: “You are right. Fifty years of experience is not easy. Allow us into the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and save us from this trouble.”
Given the context the comment was made in, it might be easy to dismiss the comment as a lighthearted joke. However, this is not the first time that Erdogan has said Turkey would gladly forgo EU membership if it was invited to join the SCO as a full member.
Indeed, Erdogan made waves in January of this year when he stated, that “If we get into the SCO, we will say good-bye to the European Union. The Shanghai Five [former name of the SCO] is better — much more powerful. Pakistan wants in. India wants in as well. If the SCO wants us, all of us will become members of this organization.”
He added, “The Shanghai Five is better and more powerful, and we have common values with them.”
This followed comments he made in the summer of last year when, again speaking with Putin, Erdogan said Ankara would like to join the SCO. Shortly after making these initial comments, his office wrote them off as a joke. However, he has now repeated it no less than three times.
The SCO is an international organization created in 2001 by China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russia, Tajikistan, and Uzbekistan. It was born out of the Shanghai Five group, which consisted of the same nations minus Uzbekistan.
Alongside these permanent members, the SCO also has an increasing number of dialogue partners and observers. Last year, Turkey joined the SCO as a dialogue partner during a summit in Beijing. Belarus and Sri Lanka are also dialogue partners while Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Iran and Mongolia enjoy observer status at the SCO.
The SCO mainly focuses on common security challenges like anti-terrorism and separation movements. For a number of years now, China has also sought to strengthen economic cooperation within the SCO. These moves have generally been resisted by Russia, which is steadily losing influence to Beijing in Central Asia and already belongs to the economically oriented Eurasian Economic Community with all five Central Asian nations (Uzbekistan is currently suspended from the group).
Consistent with the Shanghai part of its name, China is generally seen as a more enthusiastic backer of the SCO. That Erdogan has generally directed his pleas to join the SCO toward Putin likely reflects the Turkish prime minister’s sentiment that Moscow is the main obstacle to Ankara gaining entry into the SCO. In fact, whereas Turkey and China have some basis of cooperation in Central Asia, Ankara and Moscow has historically competed for influence in the region. Furthermore, although Turkey does suffer from the same kind of separatist movements that the SCO preoccupies itself with, Ankara is most likely seeking to advance its economic interests by joining the SCO.
Whatever the reasons behind Erdogan’s SCO bid, it is just one of a number of recent examples that suggest Turkey is embarking on its own Asian pivot of sorts. As previously reported, Turkey—which is a NATO member—recently announced that it will purchase an air and missile defense system from a Chinese defense company that is under U.S. sanctions. Similarly, Sino-Turkish bilateral trade has grown from US$1.4 billion in 2000 to over US$24 billion last year.
Turkey has also been expanding its relationship with other Asian powers. For example, a Japanese firm won a bid to construct the Marmaray tunnel, one of Erdogan’s most prized projects. Japanese PM Shinzo Abe visited Turkey in October to attend to the official opening of the tunnel. Abe also visited Ankara back in May when he and Erdogan officially upgraded bilateral ties to a strategic partnership. While in Turkey this spring, Abe also concluded a US$22 billion deal in which a Japanese and French firm will jointly build Turkey a second nuclear plant.
Relations between Turkey and South Korea have also been growing steadily. In fact, in March of last year, the two sides signed a free trade agreement. When the agreement came into effect this year, South Korea became the first Asian nation to have a free trade agreement with Turkey. They are already examining ways to expand the FTA by including services and investment.
Australia hopes to be the second country in Asia to conclude an FTA with Turkey.



China welcomes Turkish bid for SCO membership | European Dialogue


*China welcomes Turkish bid for SCO membership*
By Sman Erol




Turkey's aspirations for membership in the Russian and Chinese-led Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) might materialize as the organization moves towards admitting new members, the Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs said in a special talk with Today's Zaman.
“The SCO is working on improving the administrative and financial basis for new members. The member states of the SCO will meet and make a decision together on the applications proposed by states that are interested in joining,” said a senior Chinese official on Friday.
In addition, he said the SCO observes the principle of openness and values the partnership with observer countries, including Turkey as a dialogue partner, adding that “the SCO is mapping out detailed cooperative measures.”
_*> Turkey Map*_
The Chinese government's statement came after Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan announced in a TV interview last week that Turkey might seek membership in the SCO, given the stalled negotiations with the European Union that Turkey has struggled for 40 years to join.
"I recently said to [Russian President Vladimir] Putin: ‘Take us into the Shanghai Five. Take us and we will say goodbye to the EU.' What's the point of stalling?” Erdoğan said, referring to the SCO by its previous name.
There has been no official statement on the issue from the Russian government.
Acknowledging for the first time in public Erdoğan's comment that “the SCO is much better than the EU,” which led to a wide range of debate and discussion, Chinese analysts say Ankara's decision to move toward the SCO matches the actual development and power of Turkey in the region. That is, Turkey can choose to go for the SCO or for the EU.
“Since the EU has not accepted Turkey, Turkey can search for a new way. Strengthening the relationship with the SCO will help Turkey to realize its strategic goal for 2023,” Professor Wang Lincong, director of the international relations division of the Institute of West Asian and African Studies and secretary-general of the Gulf Research Center, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS), said in an interview with Today's Zaman.
In 2023 Turkey will mark the 100th anniversary of the establishment of the Turkish Republic. It is also a critical date that Turks have set to achieve their strategic mission for a competitive economy, a proactive foreign policy and becoming a regional energy hub, all of which will affect Turkey's role in the world.
According to Lincong, the EU has shown by its treatment of Turkey's bid for membership that it still cannot get beyond its narrow, exclusive and inward-looking characteristics and does not realize the importance of the acceptance of Turkey.
“Given the deep financial crisis in Europe, the members of the EU should know that they need Turkey much more; it is a chance for the development of the EU,” Lincong said.
Commenting on the importance Turkey attaches to the SCO with its recent announcement, Lincong said that for the past 10 years, Turkey has become more open and pays more attention to the East under its policy of balanced diplomacy, adding, “Turkey's eastward-oriented strategy has created broad prospects for the development of the country.”
The SCO is an intergovernmental security organization composed of six member countries: China, Russia, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan, and which some say also has a strategic goal of ending the global hegemony of the US, Turkey's NATO ally.
*Turkey officially applied to the SCO for “dialogue partnership status" in March 2011, which was approved at the Council of Heads of State Summit in Beijing a few months later. Now, Turkey is waiting for the signing of a memorandum of understanding between the SCO and Turkey as the third “dialogue partner,” following Belarus and Sri Lanka.*

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## AKINCI

Meengla said:


> Bolded part.
> The Turkmen's are part of Syria. A country which is still a SOVEREIGN country as far as the UNO is concerned with Assad as its leader.


If so Russians are part of Ukraine who are living in Crimea and East Ukraine.

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## T-123456

Oublious said:


> Your pilots have bomb a lot of inicent people dead, wher is your so called humanity?


O Pakistanli,Rus degil.


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## thesameguy

I hope and wish the arrogant cocky Turkish *** gets spanked so bad by Russia that Turks remember it for eternity. 
USA,Britain. JAPAN,and all, just shadow Russian planes and escort them out of their airspace. 
Why ex-retired, consumed Ex ottomon superpower thought they will do something nobody has done for the last 50 years and getaway with it?

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## ultron

AKINCI said:


> If so Russians are part of Ukraine who are living in Crimea and East Ukraine.




Turkey never dares to fight Russia.

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## Oublious

T-123456 said:


> O Pakistanli,Rus degil.




ruslardan daha rus, mal mal yaziyor.

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## Nilgiri

waz said:


> Well I'm getting there. I'm currently at page 13 bro.



Bro, this stuff is like a full time job for you haha. I don't envy your role here, but at same time much kudos to you (and the other mods) for spending this amount of time to make this forum a balanced, open environment for all.

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## Oublious

T-123456 said:


> Sen onun dedigini anlamadin,o zan ediyorki vuranlar Isid.
> Su iletiyi sil,bosver sen,kufur etmeyelim.




d;


This is enough for tonight, maybe we will see another fighter will be shot down by Tuaf tommorow.

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## Meengla

AKINCI said:


> If so Russians are part of Ukraine who are living in Crimea and East Ukraine.



Are you really trying to draw an analogy between Russia-Ukraine and Turkey-Syrian-Turkmen? If so then let's spell it out: Wherever there is an 'Turk' being killed is like a Turkish citizen being killed?!

You don't even know how little 'punch' Turkey without the NATO umbrella. You are being setup for country-level bodybag and your leadership is on a path to fill a mass grave with those bodybags. 

I am pretty sure there are plenty of rational minded Turks who know the folly of anti-Assad policies. Your nationalism shouldn't blind you to those follies. Learn from us Pakistanis! Not only we CARE for you but we also have our own experience from the 80's--about how we too were made to 'feel important'. To be put on a 'pedestal'. You are already, visibly on a path of that kind of destruction. I hate to say that.

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## Hiptullha

ultron said:


> Turkey never dares to fight Russia.



They've already bitchslapped Russia.

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## Hurshid Celebi

T-123456 said:


> Sen onun dedigini anlamadin,o zan ediyorki vuranlar Isid.
> Su iletiyi sil,bosver sen,kufur etmeyelim.



He is only misinformed.
We will see tomorrow Russian Pilots they are just now transferred to Turkey.


----------



## Abingdonboy

RT are reporting the RuAF plane didn't enter Turkish airspace at all but I doubt that. However the reality appears to be the plane entered Turkish airspace for a mere 17 seconds so I have no idea how this fits with the offcial Turkish line that they gave 10 warnings (that the US seems to back up somehow. I guess the TuAF could have been giving warnings to the Russians whilst they were still inside Syrian airspace but that then becomes meaningless. 

I simply can't understand the motivations of the Turks in all this, even IF the Russians entered your airspace, so what? It has happened before and was bound to happen with them operating so close to the border. In the past it has been a diplomatic incident and officals have been called by both sides, why esclate this to a full scale international incident? This is sheer lunacy and the autocrat Ergodan needs to be reigned in- he is starting to beleive too much of his own hype. 

No side is clean in any of this but Turkey has been playing a dangerous game by buying ISIS's cheap oil (effectively propping them up) and has left itself dangerously isolated within NATO, a few years ago Turkey was a beacon for success and stability in the region but now it has allowed itself to descend into the filth and is in a downward spiral. Frankly, as a citizen of a NATO member I would like Turkey's membership to be reviewed entirely, they are acting way beyond reason and are likely counting on the backing of NATO to act as a detterent to Russia- without NATO Turkey would never have had the gusto to carry this out. I don't want the risk of WW3 to exsist simply because Turkey is acting recklessly counting on article 5 to save the day. 

I doubt there will be an overt military response by Russia to this incident but Putin will make Turkey pay and it won't be pretty.

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## cnleio

azzo said:


> Simply Qatar.


The pipeline through Iran ? Iraq(ISIS) ? Syria(ISIS) ? Russian still in Syria, who can building the hundreds km pipeline project in the War-Zone ? Maybe need ISIS to support it ...

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## Hakan

Turkey gave warnings to the plane saying to immediately divert its course southbound. This is before entering Turkish territory. Hence they were able to give 10 warnings.

Exact statement by Turkish Airforce:

The unknown air traffic position to humaynim 020 Radial 26 Miles.. This is Turkish Air Force speaking on guard you are aproaching Turkish Air Space change your heading south immediately)"

Türkiye Rus uçağını böyle uyardı! - Milliyet

Another issue resolved

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## RTE34

Hi everybody,

This is my first message to Pakistan Defence Forum.

I salute you all with the best salute of salute of Allah.

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## Meengla

Abingdonboy said:


> No side is clean in any of this but Turkey has been playing a dangerous game by buying ISIS's cheap oil (effectively propping them up) and has left itself dangerously isolated within NATO, a few years ago Turkey was a beacon for success and stability in the region but now it has allowed itself to descend into the filth and is in a downward spiral.


Over all a good post.
The quoted part: Yes, exactly what I meant above: Turkey shooting down a Russian plan on such a narrow margin of error--I mean look at that territory!!-- is a telltale sign that Turkey is either explicitly 'encouraged' by Uncle Sam or has self encouraged to this destructive path.
*Why could they have not allowed the face-saving Russian claim that it was the ground fire by the terrorists? Why rush to 'claim' an incident like this? As someone above said, despite the 70-year old Cold War, shooting down a Russian plane AND owning it was not very frequent. So why 'own' something like this?!!*

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## proka89

Kamil_baku said:


> Turkey got one of the best 3D radar there... Of course, by knowing the type of Jet, you can know that only Russians got it... It is called politics dude.. grow up fast please..



I only shared a link. None of that was written by me. So i do not understand what's a point of your comment?

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## ultron

Since the plane fell in Syrian territory 4 km from the Turkish border, it is highly unlikely the plane went into Turkish air space in the first place.

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## Hurshid Celebi

@T-123456 

Bunlar mal - mental insane

Chronology of events from German newspaper :

Kampf-Jet-Abschuss an syrisch-türkischer Grenze: Putin attackiert Türkei - Politik Ausland - Bild.de

*März 2014:* Ein syrischer Kampfjet wird von der türkischen Luftwaffe in der *nordwesttürkischen Provinz Kocaeli abgeschossen*. Damaskus protestiert gegen die „türkische Aggression”



ultron said:


> Since the plane fell in Syrian territory 4 km from the Turkish border, it is highly unlikely the plane went into Turkish air space in the first place.



Falling from 1800 feet , imagine the curve; they also tried to escape from the AMRAAM.
Absolute normal.

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## fox 2



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## terry5

Do I care ? Not even in the slightest .
Well done Turkey as we say in Pakistan great shot yaar.
I hope more of these commie baby killers are shot down .
Russia's just an antiquated old rust bucket and that commie bare chested short bald midget took one heck of a slap from the Turks today lol .

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## T-123456

Hurshid Celebi said:


> @T-123456
> 
> Bunlar mal - mental insane
> 
> Chronology of events from German newspaper :
> 
> Kampf-Jet-Abschuss an syrisch-türkischer Grenze: Putin attackiert Türkei -
> Politik Ausland -
> Bild.de
> 
> *März 2014:* Ein syrischer Kampfjet wird von der türkischen Luftwaffe in der *nordwesttürkischen Provinz Kocaeli abgeschossen*. Damaskus protestiert gegen die „türkische Aggression”
> 
> 
> 
> Falling from 1800 feet , imagine the curve; they also tried to escape from the AMRAAM.
> Absolute normal.


Dont worry about it,its something we can only laugh about.

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## alarabi

now Russia is embarrassed that it can do nothing as a reaction, Turkey has NATO and all the surrounding countries too except some retardate countries. I can see that Drunk Dumb Russians are still hangover and can't think of any strong reaction after they got humiliated.

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## RTE34

Dear Friends,

Of course I woudn't like to have my first message about the russian jets which can't fly or breaching Turkish air space. But if you decide to do something in middle east without consent of Turkey, you have to venture not to fly or get down with your jets.

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## Schutz

Abingdonboy said:


> RT are reporting the RuAF plane didn't enter Turkish airspace at all but I doubt that. However the reality appears to be the plane entered Turkish airspace for a mere 17 seconds so I have no idea how this fits with the offcial Turkish line that they gave 10 warnings (that the US seems to back up somehow. I guess the TuAF could have been giving warnings to the Russians whilst they were still inside Syrian airspace but that then becomes meaningless.
> 
> I simply can't understand the motivations of the Turks in all this, even IF the Russians entered your airspace, so what? It has happened before and was bound to happen with them operating so close to the border. In the past it has been a diplomatic incident and officals have been called by both sides, why esclate this to a full scale international incident? This is sheer lunacy and the autocrat Ergodan needs to be reigned in- he is starting to beleive too much of his own hype.
> 
> No side is clean in any of this but Turkey has been playing a dangerous game by buying ISIS's cheap oil (effectively propping them up) and has left itself dangerously isolated within NATO, a few years ago Turkey was a beacon for success and stability in the region but now it has allowed itself to descend into the filth and is in a downward spiral. Frankly, as a citizen of a NATO member I would like Turkey's membership to be reviewed entirely, they are acting way beyond reason and are likely counting on the backing of NATO to act as a detterent to Russia- without NATO Turkey would never have had the gusto to carry this out. I don't want the risk of WW3 to exsist simply because Turkey is acting recklessly counting on article 5 to save the day.
> 
> I doubt there will be an overt military response by Russia to this incident but Putin will make Turkey pay and it won't be pretty.


They give warnings on approach, if they did not pay heed to them by the time they entered their airspace then it shows that they were pushing it a bit.

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## NL_Turk

Meengla said:


> Over all a good post.
> The quoted part: Yes, exactly what I meant above: Turkey shooting down a Russian plan on such a narrow margin of error--I mean look at that territory!!-- is a telltale sign that Turkey is either explicitly 'encouraged' by Uncle Sam or has self encouraged to this destructive path.
> *Why could they have not allowed the face-saving Russian claim that it was the ground fire by the terrorists? Why rush to 'claim' an incident like this? As someone above said, despite the 70-year old Cold War, shooting down a Russian plane AND owning it was not very frequent. So why 'own' something like this?!!*



Because of balls, that's why.

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## anatolia

Abingdonboy said:


> RT are reporting the RuAF plane didn't enter Turkish airspace at all but I doubt that. However the reality appears to be the plane entered Turkish airspace for a mere 17 seconds so I have no idea how this fits with the offcial Turkish line that they gave 10 warnings (that the US seems to back up somehow. I guess the TuAF could have been giving warnings to the Russians whilst they were still inside Syrian airspace but that then becomes meaningless.
> 
> I simply can't understand the motivations of the Turks in all this, even IF the Russians entered your airspace, so what? It has happened before and was bound to happen with them operating so close to the border. In the past it has been a diplomatic incident and officals have been called by both sides, why esclate this to a full scale international incident? This is sheer lunacy and the autocrat Ergodan needs to be reigned in- he is starting to beleive too much of his own hype.
> 
> No side is clean in any of this but Turkey has been playing a dangerous game by buying ISIS's cheap oil (effectively propping them up) and has left itself dangerously isolated within NATO, a few years ago Turkey was a beacon for success and stability in the region but now it has allowed itself to descend into the filth and is in a downward spiral. Frankly, as a citizen of a NATO member I would like Turkey's membership to be reviewed entirely, they are acting way beyond reason and are likely counting on the backing of NATO to act as a detterent to Russia- without NATO Turkey would never have had the gusto to carry this out. I don't want the risk of WW3 to exsist simply because Turkey is acting recklessly counting on article 5 to save the day.
> 
> I doubt there will be an overt military response by Russia to this incident but Putin will make Turkey pay and it won't be pretty.


tuaf started warning them 30 miles away something.

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## Hurshid Celebi

You need reasons ? That's reaon, we warned Russia !

Who are the Turkmen in Syria? - BBC News

The *Turkmen are ethnic Turks *who have lived in the region of Syria, Iraq and Iran since the 11th Century.
They are mainly concentrated in the north, in the Turkmen Mountain area in Latakia close to the Turkish border, as well as in Aleppo, Idlib, Homs, Tartus and the Damascus region.
There are no reliable population figures, but they are estimated to number between *1.5 and 3.5 million*.
Under the Assad regimes in Syria, the Turkmen were banned from publishing or writing in Turkish. The government did not recognise them or other ethnic groups as minorities, preferring to stress the unity of the Arab nation.

and TÜRKMEN fight against ISIL

*Pro-Kurdish Brigade*
A further unit - the Sultan Selim Brigade - is a pro-Kurdish group reportedly composed mainly of Turkmen from near Kobane.
Its fighters have long sided with the Kurdish-led People's Protection Units (YPG) and joined the US-backed Kurdish-led opposition coalition called the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) on 10 October.
*The pro-Kurdish Turkmen fighters also took part in earlier YPG-led offensives against IS.*


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## matmat26

Assad gang of Russian aircraft and killed on November 23, this little girl and her family also bombed Turkish civilians in Bayir .

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## RTE34

Is there any Russian in here? I want to ask something.


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## thesameguy

ترکی نے اڑتا تیر گانڈ میں لے لیا.


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## Meengla

NL_Turk said:


> Because of balls, that's why.



I am honestly starting to think that Pakistani leadership has been far more effective in making Pakistan work since 1947 then Turkish leadership! I mean Pakistan was a country where, literally, thorns from trees were used as paperclip in 1947 and still managed to preserve itself against some mighty external threats and great games.

But Turkey! You have been an American bulwark against communism and now against 'Putinism', not to mention you hold some kind of major strategic card because of the recent refugee crisis--and yet you guys are going down and WILL CONTINUE to go down. 

Use brains, not balls. Kardesh!

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## Nilgiri

Abingdonboy said:


> I doubt there will be an overt military response by Russia to this incident but Putin will make Turkey pay and it won't be pretty.



It is clear with the S-300 movements appearing in the news that Putin had planned something like this to happen.

This gives about a weeks time for Russian forces to easily redeploy with minimal worldwide objections since Russia now has a clear aegis of "we need air defense in the border area for our combat planes" to use.

Its a drop in a bucket (the Su-24 on the sacrificial altar) for a much larger vat of strategic buffer for the Russians to bring under their overall objectives.

Turkey will soon be unable to penetrate or even approach Syrian airspace.

They can escalate by deploying wild weasels, but seeing how this latest effort of theirs has failed to arouse NATOs sympathies on any major level (and if it was some attempt to invoke article V of the charter as some are speculating, it has spectacularly backfired I would say).....I doubt the Turks would do that.

Basically in the name of "honour", they have closed off many options available to them. But then again some Turkish member said honour matters above all else, so there you have it.

Russians on the other hand are long term veterans in these sort of tactics....and they have the resources (long and short term) to do so. Just sit back and watch as the Russians now shore up their presence in the Syrian border areas and probably launch a massive combined offensive up to the Turkish border (to wipe out all Turkish backed proxies)....under the protection afforded to them by S-300 and ship based anti-air.....while Turkey watches on helplessly.

Russians are too smart to retaliate against Turkey itself. They will however put whatever sanctions they can on Turkey and take firm action against pro-Turkey groups in Syria....and probably back the Kurds (Both PKK and Peshmerga) heavily.

Lets wait and see.

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## Hurshid Celebi

*Human Rights Watch :*

KENNETH ROTH : Russia massacred from September 2015 until now 403 civilian, between them 97 child's !


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## jaunty

A major screw up by Turkey. Sultan Erdogan is on a mission to take Turkey down.

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## matmat26

Russia wants to raise by falling oil prices and the threat of Turkey. Objectives of this completely ..

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## Hurshid Celebi

Area bombed from Russians, only brown area is ISIL area

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## Pakistani patriot

Hakan said:


> A lot of B.S accounts with Pakistani flags trying to derail Turkey-Pakistan friendship.



This is what i've been noticing. Loads and loads of new fake id accounts are posting crap .

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## lionheartsalahudin

well turk brothers ,in the 80's soviet afghan war pakistan did shoot down russian soviet jets intruding into pakistan i beleive 8 of them so no worries there no nuclear attack on us not by their prodigies on our eastern border(india) either ,the only thing russians did do i suppose was help support the Baluch liberation army with kgb and indian raw which in the long run we did suppress but did cost us our prosperity in the long term as well ,so the max the russians might do is supply kurds to show down turkey ,and turkey unwillingly might have provided kurds a valuable ally unlike americans willing to regain kurd territory in turkey given that kurds are way more stronger then baluchistans rebels a autonomus state with virtually its own army that is dangerous for turkey ,
PAKISTANI brothers lets not forget on 16th of december on APS school incident turkey's flags were flying half mast ,no arab flag on offical bldgs made such a huge gesture so no matter what our turk brothers did we might think it was right or wrong we will stand by them in case of war always

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## batmannow

alarabi said:


> now Russia is embarrassed that it can do nothing as a reaction, Turkey has NATO and all the surrounding countries too except some retardate countries. I can see that Drunk Dumb Russians are still hangover and can't think of any strong reaction after they got humiliated.


Russia will come back hard , Its been more then 60 years of world war planing , which every Russian kid grownup learning ?
If some one thinks that NATO can stop Russia then they should look at Georgia , Ukraine good examples there ?lolz
Its scripted move from Turkey , which is just sent by NATO & USA to fight their war against a new , modern , well experienced Russian army ?
Turkey has no match of Russia in conventional or nuclear weaponry , statistics are just there to think about ?
But now , USIS well get fresh air , & support which they thought , was gone from them ?
With sending turkey at war with Russia , its can be said safely , half of the turkey would be destroyed & the remaining will be under USIS ,s nationalist chapter soon ?
NATO will wait , till Russia get tired destroying turkey , then when it will be done , they will negociate with Russia , to settle down with NWO ?
In the mean time , another muslim country will be destroyed by the US & EU NATO allies , for the implementation of their NWO , state of Israel will expand & will share the region with USIS & KSA in future ?

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## Nilgiri

*Three steps as announced by Russian top brass:*


Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
================

Basically its bad news for Turkey strategically....in return for a fleeting tactical "flashpan"

From what I've heard Russia is no longer interested in setting up an emergency hotline with Turkey now. They are going to start a major ground campaign quite soon it looks like, once they have finished their redeployments....anything that registers as an enemy aircraft is going to be shot down if its in Syrian airspace or approaching it.....in tit for tat fashion.

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger — RT News

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## ultron

Turkey keeps making enemies with its neighbors. Iran, Iraq, Syria, Russia, Greece, Armenia. The list goes on.

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## batmannow

matmat26 said:


> Assad gang of Russian aircraft and killed on November 23, this little girl and her family also bombed Turkish civilians in Bayir .


Usis gang of ksa ,turkey ,Israel US +EU killed more then them , & are the most hated terrorists in the world ?
USIS is the danger to the world , Asad govt is defending itself from the proxy army created by NATO & its allies like KSA ,TURKEY , ISRAEL ?



Nilgiri said:


> *Three steps as announced by Russian top brass:*
> 
> 
> Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
> Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
> Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
> ================
> 
> Basically its bad news for Turkey strategically....in return for a fleeting tactical "flashpan"
> 
> From what I've heard Russia is no longer interested in setting up an emergency hotline with Turkey now. They are going to start a major ground campaign quite soon it looks like, once they have finished their redeployments....anything that registers as an enemy aircraft is going to be shot down if its in Syrian airspace or approaching it.....in tit for tat fashion.
> 
> Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger — RT News


Very , clever & long term oriented move by Putin , & it shows he is ready to clean the ISIS mess any how & any way ?
THATs good , I like it .



lionheartsalahudin said:


> well turk brothers ,in the 80's soviet afghan war pakistan did shoot down russian soviet jets intruding into pakistan i beleive 8 of them so no worries there no nuclear attack on us not by their prodigies on our eastern border(india) either ,the only thing russians did do i suppose was help support the Baluch liberation army with kgb and indian raw which in the long run we did suppress but did cost us our prosperity in the long term as well ,so the max the russians might do is supply kurds to show down turkey ,and turkey unwillingly might have provided kurds a valuable ally unlike americans willing to regain kurd territory in turkey given that kurds are way more stronger then baluchistans rebels a autonomus state with virtually its own army that is dangerous for turkey ,
> PAKISTANI brothers lets not forget on 16th of december on APS school incident turkey's flags were flying half mast ,no arab flag on offical bldgs made such a huge gesture so no matter what our turk brothers did we might think it was right or wrong we will stand by them in case of war always


Doesn't matters ,, whatever they done , to whom ?
They are the supporters of ISIS , along with US +EU+ KSA +ISRAEL ?
They all are greedy bunch , wanted to take Asad same way they did , with Saddam & QADDAFI , they got iriked & been push to save the proxy by CIA ?
so basicly Russia is on the right side of the history , turkey isn't .

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## M.AsfandYar

RTE34 said:


> Hi everybody,
> 
> This is my first message to Pakistan Defence Forum.
> 
> I salute you all with the best salute of salute of Allah.


What a day to join

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## Hurshid Celebi

Nilgiri said:


> Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
> Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
> Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
> ================



3. Russia will stop the hotline with Turkey in Syrian operations;
that will raise the risk that other " Bandits" will be shot.

2. If Moskva DDG targets Turkish territory, it will be destroyed

1. Raises the risk that Russia looses complete control about pilots

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## Meengla

Meengla said:


> I am honestly starting to think that Pakistani leadership has been far more effective in making Pakistan work since 1947 then Turkish leadership! I mean Pakistan was a country where, literally, thorns from trees were used as paperclip in 1947 and still managed to preserve itself against some mighty external threats and great games.



I hate to quote myself--in this case, to illustrate what I am saying, I am quoting an Indian from another forum:

"Pakistan played it's game better during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan than Turkey is playing in Syria. Pakistan always had proxies like Hekmatyar and others to do their bidding and they were the ones manning the stingers bringing down the Helos in Chahrasiyab. 

Zia was a more consummate player of realpolitik than Erdogan will ever be."

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## xunzi

Nilgiri said:


> *Three steps as announced by Russian top brass:*
> 
> 
> Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets
> Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger
> Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended
> ================
> 
> Basically its bad news for Turkey strategically....in return for a fleeting tactical "flashpan"
> 
> From what I've heard Russia is no longer interested in setting up an emergency hotline with Turkey now. They are going to start a major ground campaign quite soon it looks like, once they have finished their redeployments....anything that registers as an enemy aircraft is going to be shot down if its in Syrian airspace or approaching it.....in tit for tat fashion.
> 
> Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger — RT News


Finally! This is why I admire Russia!

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## Hurshid Celebi

xunzi said:


> Finally! This is why I admire Russia!



Really ?

Soviet Union and Chinese armed forces clash - Mar 02, 1969 - HISTORY.com

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## cnleio

xunzi said:


> Finally! This is why I admire Russia!


Russia ships in the Mediterranean is few ... better solution is deploy S-300/400 and announce tactical nuclear weapons into Syria airbase.

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## batmannow

Meengla said:


> I hate to quote myself--in this case, to illustrate what I am saying, I am quoting an Indian from another forum:
> 
> "Pakistan played it's game better during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan than Turkey is playing in Syria. Pakistan always had proxies like Hekmatyar and others to do their bidding and they were the ones manning the stingers bringing down the Helos in Chahrasiyab.
> 
> Zia was a more consummate player of realpolitik than Erdogan will ever be."


No we are together on that topic , ashes to ashes ,back to back ! Lolz
lock n load , let's the show begain ! Bro !

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## lionheartsalahudin

Meengla said:


> I hate to quote myself--in this case, to illustrate what I am saying, I am quoting an Indian from another forum:
> 
> "Pakistan played it's game better during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan than Turkey is playing in Syria. Pakistan always had proxies like Hekmatyar and others to do their bidding and they were the ones manning the stingers bringing down the Helos in Chahrasiyab.
> 
> Zia was a more consummate player of realpolitik than Erdogan will ever be."


maybe bcuz erdagon is a politician not a general ,maybe if a turk general would have been in power he would have a proper strategy ,but again erdagon like zia might be feeding a snake ultimately came back to haunt us in the shape of tehreek e taliban pakistan ,though one thing is for sure now pakistanis deeply distrust wahabi sect of islam in all shapes and forms and anyone who supports them ,thats the reason maybe we are so irritated by turkeys decision to use FSA wahabi extremists as we are seeing the history we lived through repeating itself in syria ,really hope the fsa does'nt turn into tehreek taliban pakistan for turkey

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## cnleio

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Really ?
> 
> Soviet Union and Chinese armed forces clash - Mar 02, 1969 - HISTORY.com


LOL ... even Sino-U.S were best friends in Cold War, and then ? Before that, both ever fought in Korea War and then ?

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## Hurshid Celebi

cnleio said:


> announce tactical nuclear weapons into Syria airbase.



Are you insane ? You want Nuke the world ? T
Turkey would react with tactical nukes too .


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## cnleio

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Are you insane ? You want Nuke the world ? T
> Turkey would react with tactical nukes too .


Sure, to get U.S & NATO support first ... maybe u think Russian worse than ISIS, but just see how ppl in West will see ISIS and Russia.

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## batmannow

lionheartsalahudin said:


> maybe bcuz erdagon is a politician not a general ,maybe if a turk general would have been in power he would have a proper strategy ,but again erdagon like zia might be feeding a snake ultimately came back to haunt us in the shape of tehreek e taliban pakistan ,though one thing is for sure now pakistanis deeply distrust wahabi sect of islam in all shapes and forms and anyone who supports them ,thats the reason maybe we are so irritated by turkeys decision to use FSA wahabi extremists as we are seeing the history we lived through repeating itself in syria ,really hope the fsa does'nt turn into tehreek taliban pakistan for turkey


Ultimately USIS will capture half of turkey then they will realise , that their NATO friends stabbed their backs ?

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## xunzi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Really ?
> 
> Soviet Union and Chinese armed forces clash - Mar 02, 1969 - HISTORY.com


That was the past, a misunderstood as you will. Part of history of any country. You are clearly in the wrong here. Russia might intrude you, but you have to remember due to geographic of earth, airplane can easily cross over another country territory as part of innocent passage. And since Russia aircraft clearly pose no threat to your country and the aircraft clearly flight out of your territory where your aircraft CHASED to make a kill in another country territory. You clearly set a DANGEROUS precedent now for everybody as it is OKAY to make a kill if any foreign aircraft cross over another country by 1 inches.

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## monitor

it was a Turkish citizen that shot at the 2 Russian pilots

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## Nilgiri

Hurshid Celebi said:


> 3. Russia will stop the hotline with Turkey in Syrian operations;
> that will raise the risk that other " Bandits" will be shot.
> 
> 2. If Moskva DDG targets Turkish territory, it will be destroyed
> 
> 1. Raises the risk that Russia looses complete control about pilots



Turkey is not going to escalate to that level and hope that NATO is going to come to their aid.

Just like the chinese trolls calling for immediate prompt nuking of Turkey, this is almost as absurd.

Turkey must know its limitations in dealing with a power the size of Russia. 

The DDG will not target turkish territory. It will provide air defense over Syria and whatever ADZ they project into Turkey, probably with different ROE for both.

We will have to wait and see which of the two sides is the more mature one. I am neutral and will watch.

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Are you insane ? You want Nuke the world ? T
> Turkey would react with tactical nukes too .


Does turkey has any tactical nucks ?lolzz

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## anatolia

idont understand why is so many chinese indian and persian here  did they hurt too?

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## Beast

KAL-EL said:


> Yes... Russia has a vast nuclear arsenal. So how much of that arsenal do you think should be used against Turkey?



If some madman takes over Russia, they may drop all on Turkey 

The problem is if Erdogan goes mad, he has no nuke to used.



anatolia said:


> idont understand why is so many chinese indian and persian here  did they hurt too?


Yes, supporter of terrorist group like East Turkestan shall be destroyed without mercy.

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## anatolia

Beast said:


> If some madman takes over Russia, they may drop all on Turkey
> 
> The problem is if Erdogan goes mad, he has no nuke to used.
> 
> 
> Yes, supporter of terrorist group like East Turkestan shall be destroyed without mercy.


it is new chinese way to kill innocent people ..call people terrorist nd you have a right to kill them? 1.3 billion chinese vs 20 million uygur people? woww

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## Nilgiri

Beast said:


> If some madman takes over Russia, they may drop all on Turkey
> 
> The problem is if Erdogan goes mad, he has no nuke to used.



Nuking any NATO member means Russia gets nuked by NATO and the world ends.

Your hypothetical scenarios are laughable at best.

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## cnleio

anatolia said:


> idont understand why is so many chinese indian and persian here  did they hurt too?


One thing maybe u r mistake ... ISIS much worse than Russia, if u don't catch that whatever U.S or NATO won't help Turkey ... I believe Russian can use this to get more supports from West and East.

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## NL_Turk

Beast said:


> If some madman takes over Russia, they may drop all on Turkey
> 
> The problem is if Erdogan goes mad, he has no nuke to used.
> 
> 
> Yes, supporter of terrorist group like East Turkestan shall be destroyed without mercy.



Hehe, just like you guys took back Taiwan?

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## dadeechi

anatolia said:


> idont understand why is so many chinese indian and persian here  did they hurt too?



Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan and India are part of SCO.

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## koolio

This is a very serious incident, While Turkey has every right to protect its borders, The Russian bear is very angry, Turkey has to brace itself from the fallout, In the long run severe consequences are going to be felt.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Nilgiri said:


> Turkey is not going to escalate to that level and hope that NATO is going to come to their aid.
> 
> Just like the chinese trolls calling for immediate prompt nuking of Turkey, this is almost as absurd.
> 
> Turkey must know its limitations in dealing with a power the size of Russia.
> 
> The DDG will not target turkish territory. It will provide air defense over Syria and whatever ADZ they project into Turkey, probably with different ROE for both.
> 
> We will have to wait and see which of the two sides is the more mature one. I am neutral and will watch.



Yes, I think Russia understood the warning and the next days will be deescalating.

ROE changed 2012 when a Turkish F-4 was shot down with AAM from Latakia AB.
Ticonderoga DDGs provide also air defense in Black Sea and Mediterranean too in the case of ballistic missile attacks.
One last sentence, it is not acceptable that Russia follow STALIN occupying Krimea and Ukraine territory,
trying to expand globally. Next step could be in the Baltics.

*Putin : " It was my nightmare when SU collapsed"! *

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## anatolia

dadeechi said:


> Russia, China, Iran, Pakistan and India are part of SCO.


okey very good


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## Hurshid Celebi

batmannow said:


> Does turkey has any tactical nucks ?lolzz



Yes. 203mm Howitzer Nukes and a lot of free fall bombs.


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## anatolia

cnleio said:


> One thing maybe u r mistake ... ISIS much worse than Russia, if u don't catch that whatever U.S or NATO won't help Turkey ... I believe Russian can use this to get more supports from West and East.


? there is no isis where fighter downed. isis is next iraq border.and it is turkmen area.russia is not bombing isis .

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## Nilgiri

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Yes, I think Russia understood the warning and the next days will be deescalating.



Let us see. There is probably a flurry of back channel diplomacy going on right now.



Hurshid Celebi said:


> ROE changed 2012 when a Turkish F-4 was shot down with AAM from Latakia AB.
> Ticonderoga DDGs provide also air defense in Black Sea and Mediterranean too in the case of ballistic missile attacks.



Turks have their rights to their ROEs...not disputing that at all. But now situation has altered with Russia....Turks must be wise about that. ROEs from both sides must be clearly defined and followed, this incident has really highlighted that.

Russia will probably act tough for a few weeks for its own image purposes, but behind the scenes I am sure they are already in touch with Turkey about resolving this....so that their objectives can be met in an appropriate time frame.

Russia certainly does not want to be stuck there like USSR was in Afghanistan.

Especially given the logistics to Syria are even more fragile now and Russian economy is not in the best of shape.



Hurshid Celebi said:


> One last sentence, it is not acceptable that Russia follow STALIN occupying Krimea and Ukraine territory,
> trying to expand globally. Next step could be in the Baltics.



Thats a different topic.

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Yes. 203mm Howitzer Nukes and a lot of free fall bombs.


Wow !it can destroy whole Russia in seconds ?lolz

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## anatolia

batmannow said:


> Wow !it can destroy whole Russia in seconds ?lolz


we say in turkish .fly is small but disturb you alot..

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## notorious_eagle

Hurshid Celebi said:


> @Meengla



You can consider me a well wisher of Turkey, as a Pakistani and a visitor of Turkey twice, i have nothing but love for my fellow Turkish brethren. But being objective, i cannot help but state that this was not a wise move from the Turkish Government. 



Hurshid Celebi said:


> Bro. How should TuAF know whether it was Syrian or Russian SU-24, there was 2 SU-24 one reacted and stopped violation !
> What should be bombed there ? The next ISIL post is 200 km away !



First of all, Turkey has a very potent AD Network, thus TUAF knew exactly whether it was a SAAF or RUAF SU24. Second, it does not matter whether the SU24 was bombing ISIL or another target. The fact is, the SU24 posed no threat to Turkey's Sovereignty whatsoever. Shooting down an opposing Airplane is the last option one exercises unless the a Nation is at war with the Opposing One. Turkish Jets could have escorted the SU24 out of its Airspace, deployed chaffs/flares to warn it or fly close to it aggressively. It appears Turkey did not exercise any of this, and simply decided to shoot down the plane. 



Hurshid Celebi said:


> It was a threat against TÜRKMEN's we are responsible for them. We can not allow hundred thousands to cross Turkish boarder as refugees.



Well than, with all due respect you have just signed their death warrant. After the shooting down of this plane, Russia will act with impunity and will want revenge for the death of their pilot. You can be damn sure that Russia will want its pound of flesh, i am willing to bet that an offensive will be launched and this time with the support of Russian Ground Troops. Overall, not a wise decision by Turkey.

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## lonelyman

anatolia said:


> it is new chinese way to kill innocent people ..call people terrorist nd you have a right to kill them? 1.3 billion chinese vs 20 million uygur people? woww



Your whole country support ISIS, buying their oil, provide weapons and coverage, medical service and free passage, hitting innocent Kurds, attacking ISIS's enemies etc etc, and you are lecturing Chinese about terrorists?

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## batmannow

anatolia said:


> we say in turkish .fly is small but disturb you alot..


Sure it will reach Moscow very soon ! Good luck ?lolzz

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## Hurshid Celebi

@Nilgiri 

Deescalation

Last ans second official announcement from Russian Government spokesman PESKOV to ITAR TASS :

"President Putin didn't mean in any way military actions against Turkey "!

Devlet Sözcüsü Peskov, Putin'in Türkiye'ye askeri tehdit yöneltmediğini söyledi | Dünya Haberleri


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## anatolia

lonelyman said:


> Your whole country support ISIS, buying their oil, provide weapons and coverage, medical service and free passage, hitting innocent Kurds, etc etc, and you are lecturing Chinese about terrorists?


yea yea rright right turkey need few of isis oil trucks pkk using chinese made arm by the way.could you plz send me some proofe? becouse many france us uk russia has drone on syria .did any of those country captured isis selling oil to turkey? plz iam waiting your proof


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## notorious_eagle

Abingdonboy said:


> RT are reporting the RuAF plane didn't enter Turkish airspace at all but I doubt that. However the reality appears to be the plane entered Turkish airspace for a mere 17 seconds so I have no idea how this fits with the offcial Turkish line that they gave 10 warnings (that the US seems to back up somehow. I guess the TuAF could have been giving warnings to the Russians whilst they were still inside Syrian airspace but that then becomes meaningless.
> 
> I simply can't understand the motivations of the Turks in all this, even IF the Russians entered your airspace, so what? It has happened before and was bound to happen with them operating so close to the border. In the past it has been a diplomatic incident and officals have been called by both sides, why esclate this to a full scale international incident? This is sheer lunacy and the autocrat Ergodan needs to be reigned in- he is starting to beleive too much of his own hype.
> 
> No side is clean in any of this but Turkey has been playing a dangerous game by buying ISIS's cheap oil (effectively propping them up) and has left itself dangerously isolated within NATO, a few years ago Turkey was a beacon for success and stability in the region but now it has allowed itself to descend into the filth and is in a downward spiral. Frankly, as a citizen of a NATO member I would like Turkey's membership to be reviewed entirely, they are acting way beyond reason and are likely counting on the backing of NATO to act as a detterent to Russia- without NATO Turkey would never have had the gusto to carry this out. I don't want the risk of WW3 to exsist simply because Turkey is acting recklessly counting on article 5 to save the day.
> 
> *I doubt there will be an overt military response by Russia to this incident but Putin will make Turkey pay and it won't be pretty.*



There will not be a military response for sure, but i am willing to bet top dollar that there will be a Ground Offensive in this Area and it will largely be lead by Russian Ground Troops and Spetsnaz acting as Storm Troopers. This will be the perfect excuse for Russia to increase its military deployment, and introduce additional S400's to the Region. 

Oh and Russian tourists brought revenues worth $4 billion to Turkey in 2014. I guess that will disappear.

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## NL_Turk

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Yes. 203mm Howitzer Nukes and a lot of free fall bombs.



Aren't those freefall B61 bombs already upgraded to some kind of guided bomb?

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## anatolia

batmannow said:


> Sure it will reach Moscow very soon ! Good luck ?lolzz


bro life is short any way. faster better you know it

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## batmannow

notorious_eagle said:


> You can consider me a well wisher of Turkey, as a Pakistani and a visitor of Turkey twice, i have nothing but love for my fellow Turkish brethren. But being objective, i cannot help but state that this was not a wise move from the Turkish Government.
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, Turkey has a very potent AD Network, thus TUAF knew exactly whether it was a SAAF or RUAF SU24. Second, it does not matter whether the SU24 was bombing ISIL or another target. The fact is, the SU24 posed no threat to Turkey's Sovereignty whatsoever. Shooting down an opposing Airplane is the last option one exercises unless the a Nation is at war with the Opposing One. Turkish Jets could have escorted the SU24 out of its Airspace, deployed chaffs/flares to warn it or fly close to it aggressively. It appears Turkey did not exercise any of this, and simply decided to shoot down the plane.
> 
> 
> 
> Well than, with all due respect you have just signed their death warrant. After the shooting down of this plane, Russia will act with impunity and will want revenge for the death of their pilot. You can be damn sure that Russia will want its pound of flesh, i am willing to bet that an offensive will be launched and this time with the support of Russian Ground Troops. Overall, not a wise decision by Turkey.



Love or hate not matters sir 
As you stated in your post , turkeys has become the toy of NATO ,which will use it as long it can , if not they will just throw that ?
Turkey was the main logestical , supplier of USIS against Assad govt , & been fooled by USA now , they are going to pay the price ,Putin will make sure that , Turkish military abilities would be cut down to its size , how he is going to that ,needed to be seen .

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## Hurshid Celebi

notorious_eagle said:


> Well than, with all due respect you have just signed their death warrant. After the shooting down of this plane, Russia will act with impunity and will want revenge for the death of their pilot. You can be damn sure that Russia will want its pound of flesh, i am willing to bet that an offensive will be launched and this time with the support of Russian Ground Troops. Overall, not a wise decision by Turkey.



You know that USA delivers them TOW and now also Stingers.
Do you know the mountains region ? same as in Afghanistan plus jungle.
If they dare carpet bombing, we will see


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## Nilgiri

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Deescalation
> 
> Last ans second official announcement from Russian Government spokesman PESKOV to ITAR TASS :
> 
> "President Putin didn't mean in any way military actions against Turkey "!
> 
> Devlet Sözcüsü Peskov, Putin'in Türkiye'ye askeri tehdit yöneltmediğini söyledi | Dünya Haberleri



Bro, Turkey would have to do something way more punishing and serious than shoot a Su-24 down to get Russia to attack Turkish nation itself.

In that sense there was never any "escalation" to begin with from Russia. Putin will say some words, their govt will make some legislations, maybe some sanctions imposed....but thats about it.

What will be escalated as @notorious_eagle and I have pointed out is the Russian action against pro-Turkey Islamist groups and affiliates operating within Syria right now. They will ensure that TuAF cannot support these groups (like they have done before) by providing the air cover to their forces via their DDG and S-300.

FSA is basically going to be made non-existent quite soon I feel....then Russia can properly deal with ISIS since after FSA is dealt with, there is no more "undecided" potentially hostile areas they got to fly over to reach ISIS....and can thus plan their logistics more efficiently and logically.

In the process they are going to up their support to PKK and Peshmerga as well. That is a definite reality.

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## batmannow

anatolia said:


> bro life is short any way. faster better you know it


And Russia is no short my friend ,its too huge even for Hitler ?lolzz

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## anatolia

batmannow said:


> And Russia is no short my friend ,its too huge even for Hitler ?lolzz


what is your point for me? iam not interested in russia.it is fff cold mann. i was there few years ago


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## RickHunter

Turkey trained many terrorists and sent them to China, we flamed them up. One day we will flame İstanbul up.

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## batmannow

anatolia said:


> what is your point for me? iam not interested in russia.it is fff cold mann. i was there few years ago


The point is turkey has no weapon system to attack the Russian fedretion & wipe it out any way .
But Russia has ?

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## Hurshid Celebi

NL_Turk said:


> Aren't those freefall B61 bombs already upgraded to some kind of guided bomb?



Yes. 
Also 203 mm nuke shells, stored from US in the 70s against massive Warsaw Pact tank attacks and handed over from US to Turkey in the 90 s, like the B 61 s.

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## anatolia

RickHunter said:


> Turkey trained many terrorists and sent them to China, we flamed them up. One day we will flame İstanbul up.


you said turkish buying isis oil.iasked proof for that. could you please stayintopick?

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## Hurshid Celebi

batmannow said:


> The point is turkey has no weapon system to attack the Russian fedretion any way .



Try to attack, the you will see.


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## anatolia

RickHunter said:


> Turkey trained many terrorists and sent them to China, we flamed them up. One day we will flame İstanbul up.


china is nice country with hard working people if you asked my view about chinese people.idont talk about bullshits

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Yes.
> Also 203 mm nuke shells, stored from US in the 70s against massive Warsaw Pact tank attacks and handed over from US to Turkey in the 90 s, like the B 61 s.


So they can hit Russia deep down , how much range they have 2000 kms ?
& there is no safety code from USA on.it ?
& will USA permits their use by turkey ?lolzz

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## Hurshid Celebi

I was also in China in Shenzhen and enjoyed hospitality and nice persons.

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## anatolia

batmannow said:


> The point is turkey has no weapon system to attack the Russian fedretion & wipe it out any way .
> But Russia has ?


we would see your claim in syria..you should not underestimate turkey.

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## Hurshid Celebi

batmannow said:


> So they can hit Russia deep down , how much range they have 2000 kms ?



Stop your naive war propaganda its not a TV game. I will not answer that brainless arguments.
In worse case we can target all Black Sea regions of Russia that should be enough.


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## SiCiSi

News is the turkmen militia will be wiped out in the coming days. Men, women, children are all fair targets.

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## batmannow

anatolia said:


> we would see your claim in syria..you should not underestimate turkey.


No one is underestimating turkey , we just want you to not underestimat super Russia ?

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## anatolia

SiCiSi said:


> News is the turkmen militia will be wiped out in the coming days. Men, women, children are all fair targets.


 the great kingdom russia aganist few turkmen guy .what a shame for russia

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## SiCiSi

monitor said:


> it was a Turkish citizen that shot at the 2 Russian pilots



Ex mayor? Easy target.

How to Deal With Hostage Takers: Soviet Lessons | Chronicles Magazine

"[T]he KGB kidnapped a man they knew to be a close relative of a prominent Hezbollah leader. They then castrated him and sent the severed organs to the Hezbollah official, before dispatching the unfortunate kinsman with a bullet in the brain.

In addition to presenting him with this grisly proof of their seriousness, the KGB operatives also advised the Hezbollah leader that they knew the indentities of other close relatives of his, and that he could expect more such packages if the three Soviet diplomats were not freed immediately.

Soon thereafter, the surviving three hostages were dropped off by the Soviet embassy "

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## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> News is the turkmen militia will be wiped out in the coming days. Men, women, children are all fair targets.


That's the logestical armed mafia created in support of USIS , for their swift supplies inside deep of sirya , against Assad govt ?

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## ultron

reports of SAA airborne soldiers found the second pilot and escorted him back to Latakia air base

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> News is the turkmen militia will be wiped out in the coming days. Men, women, children are all fair targets.


Fact is that Turkey confirmed, that they are under Turkish protection. We will see

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Stop your naive war propaganda its not a TV game. I will not answer that brainless arguments.
> In worse case we can target all Black Sea regions of Russia that should be enough.


Sorry ,
I.can understand that's its you , in your love of turkey basicly denying the naked facts ?

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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> reports of SAA airborne found the second pilot and escorted him back to Latakia air base



Good news


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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Fact is that Turkey confirmed, that they are under Turkish protection. We will see



They are in Syria, they are valid targets.

Also, air space over Syria has been closed to your air force.

Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger — RT News

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## alaungphaya

Hurshid Celebi said:


> In worse case we can target all Black Sea regions of Russia that should be enough.



Enough for what? You are talking about nuclear conflict. Russia can wipe the whole of Turkey off the map with a fraction of its nuclear arsenal. If you're talking non-conventional warfare, it's a non-contest.

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## monitor

*MURAT YETKİN >The most serious tension between Turkey and Russia*

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The Russian Su-24 plane downed by Turkish F-16s on the morning of Nov. 24 near the Syrian border was the first Russian (or Soviet) war plane hit and downed by a NATO country since the organization was founded in 1949, after World War II. 

Despite strong objection by Moscow, Ankarasays the Russian jet (whose flag could not be identified at that time) was “intercepted” by Turkish jets after being warned “10 times in 5 minutes” before 9:24 a.m. local time. The Turkish military issued a map to the press showing the flight path of two Su-24 fighter-bombers entering Turkish air space after a statement by the Russian Defense Ministry revealed the downed plane was under theRussian flag (not Syrian, since Syria has Su-24s as well) and it did not violate Turkish air space; “We can prove that they did not,” the statement said. 

Then the Turkish Foreign Ministry presented in writing their proof of a violation to the embassies of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council, including Russia, also calling NATO for an emergency meeting. Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu said - after announcing his new cabinet - that every country has the right to defend its borders.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov cancelled his Nov. 25 trip to Turkey after consulting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, who accused Turkey of “stabbingRussia in the back.” Lavrov suggested Russians should not go to Turkey, which could affect the Turkish tourism sector badly. Yet Gazprom said they would continue to pump natural gas to Turkey, providing almost half of Turkey’s electricity production.

But tourism and energy are not the major worries for the time being. This is perhaps the first military engagement between Turkey andRussia since World War I. If Turkey were not a member of NATO, Russia would never allow this incident to go unanswered immediately at a time when Moscow has been flexing its muscles to show its return to the Middle East and the Mediterranean via Syria, where it has its only military base in the entire region. When Russia was firing cruise missiles from war ships on the Caspian Sea and from the Mediterranean via its giant bombardier, the Tu-160, during an 8,000-mile flight taking off from its northern bases to the positions of the Islamic State of Iraq and Levant (ISIL) in Syria, the shooting down of its war plane in support of the Bashar al-Assad regime is like a scar in the face. 

Turkish sources point out they had warnedRussian numerous times regarding border violations of Russian war planes since the beginning of the Russian air force’s operations from their bases in Syria on Sept. 30, with the latest warning coming on Nov. 21. Saturday night, during a telephone call to Lavrov, Turkish Foreign Minister Feridun Sinirlioğlu said attacks on Syrian Turkmens were causing border violations and could cause another wave of migration from Syria into Turkey. Also on Nov. 21, Sinirlioğlu had called U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry on the same matter. Ankara takes the incident as proof Russian jets were not only hitting ISIL targets but more the opponents of al-Assad, like the Turkmen militia; the Su-24s were downed as they were flying over the zone where the rebel Turkmens were under attack.

The stance of U.S. President Barack Obama will be of high importance regarding the next stages of the most serious tension between Turkey and Russia in years. Turkey and U.S. were in the planning stages of a joint air operation against ISIL in Syria and Iraq, with the possibility of the involvement of combined joint special forces operations. The U.S. had come to terms with Russia over informing each other of flights in Syrian air space before this incident. Now, with Russian planes and cruise missiles flying around, the entire Syria crisis outlook might have changed.
November/25/2015

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Fact is that Turkey confirmed, that they are under Turkish protection. We will see


Sure they cross over , but then USIS ?
Without logistical support from turkey , they will b sitting ducks to Russia ?

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## lonelyman

Hurshid Celebi said:


> I was also in China in Shenzhen and enjoyed hospitality and nice persons.





anatolia said:


> china is nice country with hard working people if you asked my view about chinese people.idont talk about bullshits



Good to know decent reasonable Turks exist. We welcome any friends and try to get along with everybody...

But why your government support Uighur terrorists and give Turkey passports to them? Most of Chinese are really really pissed off about this. Beforehand we like Turkey, appreciate its history and culture and its people, like its efforts to build a modern Muslim society, more and more Chinese tourists likes to travel to Turkey.

But your support of Uighurs terrorists completed changed this, most Chinese don't harbor any ill will to Turkey, but after your government constant meddling in our internal affairs, I wouldn't say it is same as before.

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## Mrc

Killing of downed pilot was sad and should not have happened...
This is the problem with these loose militant groups.... no discipline....

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## SiCiSi

anatolia said:


> the great kingdom russia aganist few turkmen guy .what a shame for russia



Youre right. We should let them go.

Just kidding. We will bomb their villages off the map.

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## ultron

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Good news




Bad news for Turkey. Turkey's act of aggression for shooting down a Russian jet over Syrian territory will be confirmed by the second pilot.

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## anatolia

SiCiSi said:


> Youre right. We should let them go.
> 
> Just kidding. We will bomb their villages off the map.


thats gonna make russia bigger for sure Russia is not this..this is nor yours or our war..

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## koolio

The whole game in Syria is not about ISIS or ISIL, its about getting rid of President Assad, Turkey is not happy with Russia bombing pro Nato rebels that are seeking to overthrow Assad's regime, on the other side of the spectrum Nato is bombing pro Russia rebels who are siding with Assad, This whole ISIS thing seems very fishy.

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## NL_Turk

lonelyman said:


> Good to know decent reasonable Turks exist. We welcome any friends and try to get along with everybody...
> 
> But why your government support Uighur terrorists and give Turkey passports to them? Most of Chinese are really really pissed off about this. Beforehand we like Turkey, appreciate its history and culture and its people, like its efforts to build a modern Muslim society, more and more Chinese tourists likes to travel to Turkey.
> 
> But your support of Uighurs terrorists completed changed this, most Chinese don't harbor any ill will to Turkey, but after your government constant meddling in our internal affairs, I wouldn't say it is same as before.



Giving passports to Uyghur refugees is one thing, supportinh salafi bastards is a whole other thing. 

I highly doubt that Erdogan is crazy enough to do that. Even if he was, he doesn't have the money for such operations. 
I like the Uyghurs and Chinese both, but hate that Uyghur are ruined with these jihadi bullshit. 
I think the main culprit in this, as always, is Saudi-Arabia.

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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> Bad news for Turkey. Turkey's act of aggression for shooting down a Russian jet over Syrian territory will be confirmed by the second pilot.



All military experts today said in Western media, that it was Russia who tried to test Turkey's awareness and provoked that
incident; after many many warnings.
Even their CSAR Helos were already in the air before the SU-24 was downed.

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## SiCiSi

anatolia said:


> thats gonna make russia bigger for sure Russia is not this..this is nor yours or our war..



Yeah we dont really care. Turkmen will be punished. They will understand when they hold pieces of their children and women in their arms. Then get bombed again.

This is what happens when you dont understand the balance of power.

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## KTOOOOM

NL_Turk said:


> Giving passports to Uyghur refugees is one thing, supportinh salafi bastards is a whole other thing.
> 
> I highly doubt that Erdogan is crazy enough to do that. Even if he was, he doesn't have the money for such operations.
> I like the Uyghurs and Chinese both, but hate that Uyghur are ruined with these jihadi bullshit.
> I think the main culprit in this, as always, is Saudi-Arabia.


the amount of Russian butthurt here lol


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## Hurshid Celebi

NL_Turk said:


> I like the Uyghurs and Chinese both, but hate that Uyghur are ruined with these jihadi bullshit.
> I think the main culprit in this, as always, is Saudi-Arabia.



Exactly.

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## batmannow

koolio said:


> The whole game in Syria is not about ISIS or ISIL, its about getting rid of President Assad, Turkey is not happy with Russia bombing pro Nato rebels that are seeking to overthrow Assad's regime, on the other side of the spectrum Nato is bombing pro Russia rebels who are siding with Assad, This whole ISIS thing seems very fishy.


& now Russia will stop any of french /NATO war planes inside sirya & will do whatever it likes ?
Saving USIS is getting too expensive day by day ?
But CIA is just happy to enlarge the whole conflict , if it can't control ?

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## AKINCI

ultron said:


> Turkey never dares to fight Russia.


History of the Russo-Turkish wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Are you sure?


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## KTOOOOM

SiCiSi said:


> Yeah we dont really care. Turkmen will be punished. They will understand when they hold pieces of their children and women in their arms. Then get bombed again.
> 
> This is what happens when you dont understand the balance of power.


stronk russia

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## SiCiSi

KTOOOOM said:


> stronk russia


Very original. Tell it again.

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## batmannow

NL_Turk said:


> Giving passports to Uyghur refugees is one thing, supportinh salafi bastards is a whole other thing.
> 
> I highly doubt that Erdogan is crazy enough to do that. Even if he was, he doesn't have the money for such operations.
> I like the Uyghurs and Chinese both, but hate that Uyghur are ruined with these jihadi bullshit.
> I think the main culprit in this, as always, is Saudi-Arabia.


Main culprit is Israel along with Saudis +turkey & USA +EU problem is they have invested too much , to just get down ?

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## anatolia

SiCiSi said:


> Yeah we dont really care. Turkmen will be punished. They will understand when they hold pieces of their children and women in their arms. Then get bombed again.
> 
> This is what happens when you dont understand the balance of power.


we will see

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## batmannow

AKINCI said:


> History of the Russo-Turkish wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Are you sure?


We are talking about 2015 ?lolzz

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## KTOOOOM

SiCiSi said:


> Very original. Tell it again.


don't BS again you will get owned and your country will change its name again like in Afghanistan

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## lionheartsalahudin

well 17 seconds is a impressive response time ,in june 2013 we responded to indians two su-30 intrusion 2 minutes 5 miles violation later,we should work together with turks to get our airdefense that efficient ,never mind abotabad our doors are always open for uncle sam he is our uncle who brings us goodies afterall


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## SiCiSi

anatolia said:


> we will see



Yep. It wouldve been smarter to get your assets OUT of syria before this little stunt. But you guys have been getting too close to the arabs and the power of critical thinking is starting to leave you.

Look for the news in a couple of days.

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## lonelyman

NL_Turk said:


> Giving passports to Uyghur refugees is one thing, supportinh salafi bastards is a whole other thing.
> 
> I highly doubt that Erdogan is crazy enough to do that. Even if he was, he doesn't have the money for such operations.
> I like the Uyghurs and Chinese both, but hate that Uyghur are ruined with these jihadi bullshit.
> I think the main culprit in this, as always, is Saudi-Arabia.



I like Uighurs too, but lots of them get radicalized. You know the full body cover Burka is never a traditional cloth of Uighurs, they like to dance and enjoy music.... But things are different now, you can see lots of them smuggled out and using Turkey passport to join the ISIS..

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## batmannow

KTOOOOM said:


> don't BS again you will get owned and your country will change its name again like in Afghanistan


Friend don't jump from the top of your horse , no one of these NATO perks will ever support you against Russia , they will sell half of turkey to USIS & you will be fighting with your own peoples just like in Iraq & Libya ?

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## fox 2

17 second case is bullshit. We warned russians before 45 km out from our borders. And they come 1 km near we still keep warning. ''This Turkish Air force guard change your route'' And they are keep coming. They are violated our airspace 4km one time and we still warned them. But again one plane violated the border 4km and our pilot fired the missile. Missile catched russian plane inside of Syria because our fighters shot him from 60-70 km away.

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## azzo

Russia losing two planes in a matter of hours ROFL, what a superpower.

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## Hurshid Celebi

lonelyman said:


> But things are different now, you can see lots of them smuggled out and using Turkey passport to join the ISIS..



Sad to hear that they join terrorists

@lonelyman


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## batmannow

lonelyman said:


> I like Uighurs too, but lots of them get radicalized. You know the full body cover Burka is never a traditional cloth of Uighurs, they like to dance and enjoy music.... But things are different now, you can see lots of them smuggled out and using Turkey passport to join the ISIS..


Or they are the 50% of ISIS force fighting in sirya , for the dream of Turkish president who wants to become a king of new usmanian caliphate ?lolzz

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## Hurshid Celebi

zenmastera said:


> 60-70 km


Almost BVR range, wow AMRAAM is the most widely used BVR missile

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## azzo

It's normal for Muslims to own Russians, Afghans turned the USSR into the timid-no longer believes in communism- poor man's version of U.S.
Let this be a warning to you Russia, or we will turn your country to the Chechnyan Islamic Republic.

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## anatolia

SiCiSi said:


> Yep. I wouldve been smarter to get your assets OUT of syria before this little stunt. But you guys have been getting too close to the arabs and the power of critical thinking is starting to leave you.
> 
> Look for the news in a couple of days.


maybe same apply for russian too..paka paka iam done

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Sad to hear that they join terrorists
> 
> @lonelyman


Because every one of their turkish big brothers imported them for that ?



azzo said:


> It's normal for Muslims to own Russians, Afghans turned the USSR into the timid-no longer believes in communism- poor man's version of U.S.
> Let this be a warning to you Russia, or we will turn your country to the Chechnyan Islamic Republic.


First make your self a true turkish Islamic state ?
& kill your dreams to become part of EU ?

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## Hurshid Celebi

batmannow said:


> Because every one of their turkish big brothers imported them for that ?



I know for sure that you are a false flagger. But go on with your Ruskie propaganda.

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## NL_Turk

lonelyman said:


> I like Uighurs too, but lots of them get radicalized. You know the full body cover Burka is never a traditional cloth of Uighurs, they like to dance and enjoy music.... But things are different now, you can see lots of them smuggled out and using Turkey passport to join the ISIS..



Yeah, I saw the pictures, it's a shame. Turks/Uyghurs should stay away from those medieval things. 
But I also saw some news about discovery of gas deposits in the Xingjian region. 
Hopefully that and the new silkroad will bring some economic rise to offset all the jihadi funded terrorist factories.

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## lonelyman

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Sad to hear that they join terrorists
> 
> @lonelyman



Sadly it's a common threat, US, UK, France, lots of radicals choose to join ISIS too.

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## Hurshid Celebi

lonelyman said:


> Sadly it's a common threat, US, UK, France, lots of radicals choose to join ISIS too.



It seems to be a social phenomenon and brain wash


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## SiCiSi

batmannow said:


> First make your self a true turkish Islamic state ?
> & kill your dreams to become part of EU ?



I love how these idiots think shooting down one plane makes them special. Like we cant just burn their entire existence in a few minutes. 

Its like a really small dog which is barking loudly. You cant help but laugh.

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> I know for sure that you are a false flagger. But go on with your Ruskie propaganda.


Me false flagger with that much of my posts ?
I'm not with Russia ,I'm not against turkey , I'm against ISIS which is created jointly by ,KSA ,TURKEY & its best friend ISRAEL ?
Yes the same ISIS which is killing innocent none Muslims & more Muslims , to let my good religion been targeted as terrorism in the world ?
I'm against anyone supporting ISIS? That's it ?
Be it Pakistan ,or Turkey or Russia ?
Who ever supports Isis , I'm against it .



SiCiSi said:


> I love how these idiots think shooting down one plane makes them special. Like we cant just burn their entire existence in a few minutes.
> 
> Its like a really small dog which is barking loudly. You cant help but laugh.


Sorry
I won't go to insult anyone , but I'm against ISIS which is surly CIA s creation & turkey is saving it for NATO , & its crazy dreams to be part of EU ?
Reality is NATO wanted Turkey to act like that , & drive Russia into turkey for a wasted prapoganda that , Russia is going to invade Saudi Arabia , in that cover CIA will topple Assad govt , & will give powers to ISIS even half if Turkey , & then seal a deal between Israel & Isis ?

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## KTOOOOM

SiCiSi said:


> I love how these idiots think shooting down one plane makes them special. Like we cant just burn their entire existence in a few minutes.
> 
> Its like a really small dog which is barking loudly. You cant help but laugh.


lol afghans without a country with only ak and man pads ended your empire and drove it to a sewer and still could not recover from it till this day.

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## UniverseWatcher

done on purpose by Turkey, the jet was shot 4 km away from turkish territory, turkey is making the situation worse, turkey is already been funding terrorist from the beginning to get rid of the government nothing new...some how they have to protect there "assets" one way or another they are losing ground and money in Syria....interesting isn't it

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## NL_Turk

SiCiSi said:


> I love how these idiots think shooting down one plane makes them special. Like we cant just burn their entire existence in a few minutes.
> 
> Its like a really small dog which is barking loudly. You cant help but laugh.



Haha, remember how that small country Georgia without any alliance stood up against the mighty bear in 2008?
And you think Turkey will be a walk in the park? lol

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## SiCiSi

NL_Turk said:


> Haha, remember how that small country Georgia without any alliance stood up against the mighty bear in 2008?
> And you think Turkey will be a walk in the park? lol



We used nuclear weapons against Georgia? 

News to me.



DjSmg said:


> done on purpose by Turkey, the jet was shot 4 km away from turkish territory, turkey is making the situation worse, turkey is already been funding terrorist from the beginning to get rid of the government nothing new...some how they have to protect there "assets" one way or another they are losing ground and money in Syria....interesting isn't it


The Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline will forever remain a dream. They cant seem to accept that fact.

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## Kyle Sun

Dino said:


> you mad bro.
> 
> turkey has been in nato since more than half a century. stop crying.


Turk was the first Muslim country which started bilateral diplomatic relationship with Israel when your so called Muslim brothers were fighting Israel. 

And now you are proud of your nato membership .

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> We used nuclear weapons against Georgia



Nukes, nukes , nukes any other arguments ?

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## Malik Alashter

anatolia said:


> the great kingdom russia aganist few turkmen guy .what a shame for russia


They are not Iraqi shiite where you can kill them and get away with it this is Russia if you forgot it's one the strongest nation actually it's second to the US.

So they have the power the will to kill their enemy they are not Iraqis cornered and every bastard punch since they are shiite Kuffar want to rule their country and manage their resources.

you are the one that pushed the Russians to slaughter the turkman!!!. 

Not all the nation have the patience, shiite have, now we will see the consequence of downing a Russian plane.

I pray for peace in that region, unfortunately the people their afflicted with bad regimes and nut leaders who make their decisions without thinking about the consequences.

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Nukes, nukes , nukes any other arguments ?



*Would Turkey Act Without US Permission? – Daniel McAdams*
2448
220
03:48 25.11.2015(updated 05:03 25.11.2015)
*
The shooting down of a Russian bomber by Turkish aircraft shocked the Kremlin. But in an interview with Sputnik, Daniel McAdams, executive director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity, describes what effect the incident will have on the world stage.

Speaking to Sputnik, Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute gives his impressions of the downing of a Russian bomber over Syria.





*
Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace
*

"This is very serious," he said.

In part, Turkey’s attack on a Russian plane targeting the self-proclaimed Islamic State terrorist group has highlighted Ankara’s own role of fomenting those radical groups.

"…Turkey has allowed itself to become a super-hotbed for ISIS and other jihadists to go back and forth from Syria into Turkey. We have pretty good evidence that ISIS and other extremists have been resupplied infinitely, possibly with weapons from Libya, another great US success story – and they have been striking inside Syria with that," McAdams said.

"So, certainly if you want criminal activity, Turkey is an accomplice to the crime at the very least."

McAdams also his own thoughts on why the Turkish government would risk such provocative action.

"One question is would [Turkish President] Erdogan do this without US permission, without US support…" he asks. "Even if this Russian jet wandered into Syrian airspace…how is it that the Turkish F-16s scrambled, met their target and [took] out their target in a matter of seconds, and how is it that the Russian plane crashed in Syria itself?"




*
'17 Seconds': No One’s Buying Turkey’s Version of Su-24 Story
*

In light of the strong reaction from the Kremlin, McAdams also sees NATO backing away from potential conflict.

"I find it interesting that the NATO General Jens Stoltenberg all of a sudden toned his rhetoric down about 12 notches. I think he realizes that things have just gotten real," he said. "He’s clearly eager to not make this a Russia-NATO conflict, because the implications for that are tremendous."

The downing of the bomber will also likely end any further discussion of implementing a "safe zone" along the Turkey-Syria border.

"The US and Turks have been trying to set this up for a long time. I think that is over."

The reports of so-called “moderate” rebel groups shooting at the pilots as they drifted in parachutes toward the ground – an act which many would consider a war crime – also highlight the problems of Western strategies in supporting those groups.




*
Russia Deploys Maritime Air Defense After Jet Shot Down Over Syria
*

"…The whole idea that these people are moderates is insane," McAdams said. "Just this week, the US was considering inviting al-Qaeda’s affiliate Ahrar ash-Sham to attend the talks, as well. So, 14 years after al-Qaeda attacked the US on 9/11, the US is talking about bringing an al-Qaeda affiliate in as a moderate opposition in Syria."

Given Turkey’s place in NATO, many have already predicted that one of the most significant effects of the incident may be the thaw in relations between Russia and the West – a relationship that was showing signs of warming following the terrorist attacks in Paris and the bombing of Metrojet flight 9268.

But as McAdams points out, the United States had remained resistant to cooperation with Russia even before Tuesday’s events.

"…The US is definitely in a bind because Russia was seen as the only effective force that was fighting ISIS. The US had a year and had very, very little effect on ISIS, and yet after a month everyone in the world has seen the damage that Russia did."
*


Read more: Would Turkey Act Without US Permission? – Daniel McAdams

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## jung41

Now what are the options with Russians???


----------



## Beast

batmannow said:


> *Would Turkey Act Without US Permission? – Daniel McAdams*
> 2448
> 220
> 03:48 25.11.2015(updated 05:03 25.11.2015)
> *
> The shooting down of a Russian bomber by Turkish aircraft shocked the Kremlin. But in an interview with Sputnik, Daniel McAdams, executive director of the Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity, describes what effect the incident will have on the world stage.
> 
> Speaking to Sputnik, Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute gives his impressions of the downing of a Russian bomber over Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace
> *
> 
> "This is very serious," he said.
> 
> In part, Turkey’s attack on a Russian plane targeting the self-proclaimed Islamic State terrorist group has highlighted Ankara’s own role of fomenting those radical groups.
> 
> "…Turkey has allowed itself to become a super-hotbed for ISIS and other jihadists to go back and forth from Syria into Turkey. We have pretty good evidence that ISIS and other extremists have been resupplied infinitely, possibly with weapons from Libya, another great US success story – and they have been striking inside Syria with that," McAdams said.
> 
> "So, certainly if you want criminal activity, Turkey is an accomplice to the crime at the very least."
> 
> McAdams also his own thoughts on why the Turkish government would risk such provocative action.
> 
> "One question is would [Turkish President] Erdogan do this without US permission, without US support…" he asks. "Even if this Russian jet wandered into Syrian airspace…how is it that the Turkish F-16s scrambled, met their target and [took] out their target in a matter of seconds, and how is it that the Russian plane crashed in Syria itself?"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> '17 Seconds': No One’s Buying Turkey’s Version of Su-24 Story
> *
> 
> In light of the strong reaction from the Kremlin, McAdams also sees NATO backing away from potential conflict.
> 
> "I find it interesting that the NATO General Jens Stoltenberg all of a sudden toned his rhetoric down about 12 notches. I think he realizes that things have just gotten real," he said. "He’s clearly eager to not make this a Russia-NATO conflict, because the implications for that are tremendous."
> 
> The downing of the bomber will also likely end any further discussion of implementing a "safe zone" along the Turkey-Syria border.
> 
> "The US and Turks have been trying to set this up for a long time. I think that is over."
> 
> The reports of so-called “moderate” rebel groups shooting at the pilots as they drifted in parachutes toward the ground – an act which many would consider a war crime – also highlight the problems of Western strategies in supporting those groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Russia Deploys Maritime Air Defense After Jet Shot Down Over Syria
> *
> 
> "…The whole idea that these people are moderates is insane," McAdams said. "Just this week, the US was considering inviting al-Qaeda’s affiliate Ahrar ash-Sham to attend the talks, as well. So, 14 years after al-Qaeda attacked the US on 9/11, the US is talking about bringing an al-Qaeda affiliate in as a moderate opposition in Syria."
> 
> Given Turkey’s place in NATO, many have already predicted that one of the most significant effects of the incident may be the thaw in relations between Russia and the West – a relationship that was showing signs of warming following the terrorist attacks in Paris and the bombing of Metrojet flight 9268.
> 
> But as McAdams points out, the United States had remained resistant to cooperation with Russia even before Tuesday’s events.
> 
> "…The US is definitely in a bind because Russia was seen as the only effective force that was fighting ISIS. The US had a year and had very, very little effect on ISIS, and yet after a month everyone in the world has seen the damage that Russia did."
> *
> 
> 
> Read more: Would Turkey Act Without US Permission? – Daniel McAdams


US is smart. THey give Turkey false hope and when thing screw up. They will claim its your business. The turkish are naive.

It happen in Georgia, it happen in Ukraine and now it happen to Turkey.

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## dadeechi

batmannow said:


> Main culprit is Israel along with Saudis +turkey & USA +EU problem is they have invested too much , to just get down ?



Not EU. They are very eager to get of NATO and in future would be open to include Russia in EU too.

One in Three EU Citizens Wants EU Army to Replace NATO Reliance

One in Three EU Citizens Wants EU Army to Replace NATO Reliance

Every third person in the United Kingdom, France and Germany believes the European Union should have its own army instead of relying on the US-led NATO military bloc, a poll conducted by ICM Research exclusively for Sputnik revealed on Tuesday

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## ultron

Russia deploy Smerch to Latakia city to shell rebels in Latakia province. I doubt Turkey would dare to attack Russian artillery and start a war with Russia.

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## Husky

Does anybody know what kind of missile turkey used?


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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Nukes, nukes , nukes any other arguments ?



Biological weapons, Chemical weapons, Novichok agents. 

Also. Nukes.

You should stick to swinging from American penis. By yourself, you are nothing.

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## Hurshid Celebi

batmannow said:


> Speaking to Sputnik, Daniel McAdams of the Ron Paul Institute



What a serious Institute , *two containers* and a good website. Look in Google Street View !

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## SiCiSi

Beast said:


> Would Turkey Act Without US Permission.?



NATO members cannot go to the bathroom before asking their American masters first, let alone an EU wannabe like turkey.

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## NL_Turk

SiCiSi said:


> We used nuclear weapons against Georgia?
> 
> News to me.
> 
> 
> The Qatar-Turkey gas pipeline will forever remain a dream. They cant seem to accept that fact.



The point is that your nukes are irrelevant. 
Your struggled with Georgia, you struggled with Ukraine despite all the Russians there and bordering it, you couldn't keep Chechnya under control without bribing Kadyrov and giving him de-facto independence. 
What I'm saying is that you are nowhere near as powerfull as you think you are.

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## anatolia

Malik Alashter said:


> They are not Iraqi shiite where you can kill them and get away with it this is Russia if you forgot it's one the strongest nation actually it's second to the US.
> 
> So they have the power the will to kill their enemy they are not Iraqis cornered and every bastard punch since they are shiite Kuffar want to rule their country and manage their resources.
> 
> you are the one that pushed the Russians to slaughter the turkman!!!.
> 
> Not all the nation have the patience, shiite have, now we will see the consequence of downing a Russian plane.
> 
> I pray for peace in that region, unfortunately the people their afflicted with bad regimes and nut leaders who make their decisions without thinking about the consequences.


iraqi shitas we killed?

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## ultron

Husky said:


> Does anybody know what kind of missile turkey used?




AIM-9 I heard


----------



## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Biological weapons, Chemical weapons, Novichok agents.
> 
> Also. Nukes.



Why are you crying like a baby and bark like a hurt dog ? Did the AMRAAM is still somewhere in you ?

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## The-king

Husky said:


> Does anybody know what kind of missile turkey used?


AA120c

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## SiCiSi

NL_Turk said:


> The point is that your nukes are irrelevant.
> Your struggled with Georgia, you struggled with Ukraine despite all the Russians there and bordering it, you couldn't keep Chechnya under control without bribing Kadyrov and giving him de-facto independence.
> What I'm saying is that you are nowhere near as powerfull as you think you are.



If you think our nuclear weapons are irrelevant, you were born in or after the 80s and know nothing about military matters.

Go read something about our nuclear doctrine and come back.



Hurshid Celebi said:


> Why are you crying like a baby and bark like a hurt dog ? Did the AMRAAM is still somewhere in you ?



What a well thought out reply. How long did it take you to come up with that?

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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> AIM-9 I heard



Wrong AMRAAM - aim 120

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## Frosty

ultron said:


> AIM-9 I heard



General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin stocks are going up.

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## NL_Turk

SiCiSi said:


> If you think our nuclear weapons are irrelevant, you were born in or after the 80s and know nothing about military matters.
> 
> Go read something about our nuclear doctrine and come back.



I think you are the one who needs to read up. 
By your logic Russia should have won each battle and war that they have fought right? 
Yet reality is very different from your fantasy world. 

We are not talking about war on Russian soil so why would anyone have to fear Russian nukes?

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## 帅的一匹

SiCiSi said:


> Biological weapons, Chemical weapons, Novichok agents.
> 
> Also. Nukes.
> 
> You should stick to swinging from American penis. By yourself, you are nothing.


China stand firmly with Russian people this time.

isil shall eradicated from this planet no matter their orgins>

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## Frosty

SiCiSi said:


> If you think our nuclear weapons are irrelevant, you were born in or after the 80s and know nothing about military matters.
> 
> Go read something about our nuclear doctrine and come back.
> 
> 
> 
> What a well thought out reply. How long did it take you to come up with that?





SiCiSi said:


> If you think our nuclear weapons are irrelevant, you were born in or after the 80s and know nothing about military matters.
> 
> Go read something about our nuclear doctrine and come back.
> 
> 
> 
> What a well thought out reply. How long did it take you to come up with that?



Wishing the use of Nukes upon Turkey and the Turkish people doesn't make you any different from ISIS

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Go read something about our nuclear doctrine and come back.



Don't worry, I am always up to date

PISM Report: Nuclear-Backed “Little Green Men:” Nuclear Messaging in the Ukraine Crisis

An unprecedented amount of nuclear-related signals originating from the Kremlin, including statements, bomber flights, and exercises, demonstrates that during the Ukraine crisis Russia has deliberately sent nuclear messages to NATO. Russia’s nuclear muscle-flexing has been an integral part of Moscow’s approach to conflict, backing up the credibility and effectiveness of its hybrid warfare campaign.

NATO has responded in a very restrained manner and rightly avoided engaging in tit-for-tat nuclear messaging with Russia. At the same time, however, the Ukraine crisis has exposed NATO’s communication gaps and corresponding challenges to the effectiveness of NATO’s nuclear deterrence and assurance. To adapt to the new nuclear landscape in Europe, the NATO Allies should consider rebalancing their thinking towards nuclear deterrence, a re-examination of their nuclear crisis-management tools and exercises, refreshing declaratory policy and re-designing their nuclear communication strategy.


----------



## SiCiSi

NL_Turk said:


> By your logic Russia should have won each battle and war that they have fought right? ?



Again, you are very confused. Or maybe just new to talking about military matters hence your lack of understanding of the basics of conflict. So let me educate you.

The nature of every conflict is different. Therefore the parameters laid out for the use of nuclear and biological/chemical weapons is different.

If we were to go to war with Turkey, we will immediately use nuclear weapons as we know that you have a semi decent military in close proximity to us which will need to be neutralized immediately. Also the fact that you have no second strike capability so we can nuke you, then mop up the rest using things like Ebola/Plague/VX.

Georgia, Afg, Checnya etc. were totally different theaters where the threat they presented to us was much lower hence not requiring our bigger weapons.

Hopefully now you understand something about Russia military and nuclear doctrine.



Frosty said:


> Wishing the use of Nukes upon Turkey and the Turkish people doesn't make you any different from ISIS


QOTW right here. You sir, are a genius.

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## 帅的一匹

Frosty said:


> General Dynamics and Lockheed Martin stocks are going up.


What is Saudi mainstay view toward this event?

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## The-king

*Turkey has right to defend its airspace: Obama*
Washington: Turkey has the right to defend its territory and its airspace, US PresidentBarack Obama today said as he discouraged escalation of tension between Russia and Turkey after Turkish forces shot down a Russian fighter jet on its border with Syria.
"We are still getting the details of what happened. And I expect to be in communications, potentially directly, with (Turkish) President sometime over the next several days," Obama told a crowded joint news conference with the French President Francois Hollande.

"Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace. I think it's very important right now for us to make sure that both the Russians and the Turks are talking to each other, find out exactly what happened and take measures to discourage any kind of escalation," Obama said.

Obama said this points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations in the sense that they are operating very close to a Turkish border and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries.

"And if Russia is directing its energies towards Daesh and ISIL, some of those conflicts or potentials for mistakes or escalation are less likely to occur.

"This underscores the importance of us making sure that we move this political track forward as quickly as possible. Like President Hollande, our view from the start has been that Russia is welcome to be part of this broad-based coalition that we have set up," Obama said.

Responding to a question, Obama said he does not have all the information yet.

"So I do not want to comment on the specifics. We will be gathering all that information. We expect the Turks to provide information. I'm sure the Russians will have some information. We will be able to confirm what happened in part through our own intelligence and our own tracking of that border area," he said.

"As Francois (Hollande) indicated, my top priority is going to be to ensure that this does not escalate. And, hopefully, this is a moment in which all parties can step back and make a determination as to how their interests are best served," Obama said.

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## SiCiSi

The-king said:


> *Turkey has right to defend its airspace: Obama*
> Washington: Turkey has the right to defend its territory and its airspace, US PresidentBarack Obama today said as he discouraged escalation of tension between Russia and Turkey after Turkish forces shot down a Russian fighter jet on its border with Syria.
> "We are still getting the details of what happened. And I expect to be in communications, potentially directly, with (Turkish) President sometime over the next several days," Obama told a crowded joint news conference with the French President Francois Hollande.
> 
> "Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace. I think it's very important right now for us to make sure that both the Russians and the Turks are talking to each other, find out exactly what happened and take measures to discourage any kind of escalation," Obama said.
> 
> Obama said this points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations in the sense that they are operating very close to a Turkish border and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries.
> 
> "And if Russia is directing its energies towards Daesh and ISIL, some of those conflicts or potentials for mistakes or escalation are less likely to occur.
> 
> "This underscores the importance of us making sure that we move this political track forward as quickly as possible. Like President Hollande, our view from the start has been that Russia is welcome to be part of this broad-based coalition that we have set up," Obama said.
> 
> Responding to a question, Obama said he does not have all the information yet.
> 
> "So I do not want to comment on the specifics. We will be gathering all that information. We expect the Turks to provide information. I'm sure the Russians will have some information. We will be able to confirm what happened in part through our own intelligence and our own tracking of that border area," he said.
> 
> "As Francois (Hollande) indicated, my top priority is going to be to ensure that this does not escalate. And, hopefully, this is a moment in which all parties can step back and make a determination as to how their interests are best served," Obama said.



But Syria doesnt have the right to defend itself from terrorists. 

American logic.

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## 帅的一匹

Russia has non first use of nuke policy like China, means it can strike all of a sudden.

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## The-king

SiCiSi said:


> But Syria doesnt have the right to defend itself from terrorists.
> 
> American logic.


Yes they have Bushar has to go.

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## KTOOOOM

Malik Alashter said:


> They are not Iraqi shiite where you can kill them and get away with it this is Russia if you forgot it's one the strongest nation actually it's second to the US.
> 
> So they have the power the will to kill their enemy they are not Iraqis cornered and every bastard punch since they are shiite Kuffar want to rule their country and manage their resources.
> 
> you are the one that pushed the Russians to slaughter the turkman!!!.
> 
> Not all the nation have the patience, shiite have, now we will see the consequence of downing a Russian plane.
> 
> I pray for peace in that region, unfortunately the people their afflicted with bad regimes and nut leaders who make their decisions without thinking about the consequences.


why are you butthurt big mama does not look stronk no more.

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## Hakan

If Turkey feels threatened it can shut down the Turkish straits thus ending Putin's play time in Syria. This is why Russia will not do anything serious. Even if Russia reacts it works out for Turkey because we can close the straits thus finishing off Assad as Russian troops get no resupply and Assad gets no resupply.

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## SiCiSi

The-king said:


> Yes they have Bushar has to go.



Yeah the UN recognized government of Syria has to go to make way to terrorists. Makes sense. 

Also, Bashar* Atleast learn to spell

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## Beast

The-king said:


> *Turkey has right to defend its airspace: Obama*
> Washington: Turkey has the right to defend its territory and its airspace, US PresidentBarack Obama today said as he discouraged escalation of tension between Russia and Turkey after Turkish forces shot down a Russian fighter jet on its border with Syria.
> "We are still getting the details of what happened. And I expect to be in communications, potentially directly, with (Turkish) President sometime over the next several days," Obama told a crowded joint news conference with the French President Francois Hollande.
> 
> "Turkey, like every country, has a right to defend its territory and its airspace. I think it's very important right now for us to make sure that both the Russians and the Turks are talking to each other, find out exactly what happened and take measures to discourage any kind of escalation," Obama said.
> 
> Obama said this points to an ongoing problem with the Russian operations in the sense that they are operating very close to a Turkish border and they are going after moderate opposition that are supported by not only Turkey but a wide range of countries.
> 
> "And if Russia is directing its energies towards Daesh and ISIL, some of those conflicts or potentials for mistakes or escalation are less likely to occur.
> 
> "This underscores the importance of us making sure that we move this political track forward as quickly as possible. Like President Hollande, our view from the start has been that Russia is welcome to be part of this broad-based coalition that we have set up," Obama said.
> 
> Responding to a question, Obama said he does not have all the information yet.
> 
> "So I do not want to comment on the specifics. We will be gathering all that information. We expect the Turks to provide information. I'm sure the Russians will have some information. We will be able to confirm what happened in part through our own intelligence and our own tracking of that border area," he said.
> 
> "As Francois (Hollande) indicated, my top priority is going to be to ensure that this does not escalate. And, hopefully, this is a moment in which all parties can step back and make a determination as to how their interests are best served," Obama said.


Turkey has right to defend yourself but when things screw up. It is your own responsibility to defend yourself and not rely on others  From Uncle Sam

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Also the fact that you have no second strike capability so we can nuke you, then mop up the rest using things like Ebola/Plague/VX.



Are you a maniac, psychopath ? *Warcrime against the GLOBE*. Do you believe your own propaganda, ?


----------



## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Are you a maniac, psychopath ? *Warcrime against the GLOBE*. Do you believe your own propaganda, ?


Do you think we care?

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## Jason Zhao

Sinan said:


> Russian plane violated Turkish airspace for 5 minutes despite 10 warnings. Shot down by 2 F-16s.
> 
> Edit: One of the pilots captured by Turkmen forces in Syria, they are looking for the second pilot.


Why the news said the time is only 17 seconds for 10 times warning??
This way is really not good, you can arrange the plane to push Russia leave but not shoot them down, at least Russia's duty is for ISIS, you shoot them down then you can not get consensus, and it will be wrong on politics purpose.

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## 帅的一匹

The-king said:


> Yes they have Bushar has to go.


why Bashar must leave mr brother? look at the mess in Iraq when Sadam died, and the hell in Syria when Kadaffi died.

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## SiCiSi

wanglaokan said:


> why Bashar must leave mr brother? look at the mess in Iraq when Sadam died, and the hell in Syria when Kadaffi died.



He must leave because their American masters said so.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Do you think we care?



*Russian propagandist is obvious drunk and full of hate against the whole world ! 
Is he a MARSIAN ?*


----------



## ultron

Cruiser Moskva is positioned off the Syrian coast. All of Latakia and the western part of Idlib are within air coverage of S-300F.

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## Frosty

BRUSSELS, Safar 12, 1437, November 24, 2015, SPA -- NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg offered support for Ankara on Tuesday after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border and rejected any suggestion that the incident happened outside of Turkey's borders, Reuters reported.

Asked if there was any possibility that the plane was actually shot down inside Syria, Stoltenberg said: 'The allied assessments that we have are consistent with the information we have from Turkey,' he told a news conference.

*'We stand in solidarity with Turkey and support the territorial integrity of our NATO ally,' Stoltenberg said.*
*--SPA*
saudi Press agency

*22:08 LOCAL TIME 19:08 GMT *


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## Beast

Jason Zhao said:


> Why the news said the time is only 17 seconds for 10 times warning??
> This way is really not good, you can arrange the plane to push Russia leave but not shoot them down, at least Russia's duty is for ISIS, you shoot them down then you can not get consensus, and it will be wrong on politics purpose.



The Turkey will brother any Turkish for the sake of protecting. They dont care whether they are moderate or ISIS. Just like the Uyghur terrorist in China who slash and killed innocent children and woman, they also wanted to protect by setting up East Turkestan organisation in turkey and give political shelter to any Uyghur. While they claim double standard by enforcing their rights on Kurds.

Karma is coming for the Turkish.

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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> *Russian propagandist is obvious drunk and full of hate against the whole world !
> Is he a MARSIAN ?*



Its spelled Martian.

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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> Cruiser Moskva is positioned off the Syrian coast. All of Latakia and part of Idlib are within air coverage of S-300F.



Are you not tired of making Russian propaganda ?
Hakan wrote before, we will close the straits and finish ?


----------



## The-king

wanglaokan said:


> why Bashar must leave mr brother? look at the mess in Iraq when Sadam died, and the hell in Syria when Kadaffi died.


But Bashar is doing something different my friend he is killing own citizen denying their basic rights.

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## SiCiSi

ultron said:


> Cruiser Moskva is positioned off the Syrian coast. All of Latakia and the western part of Idlib are within air coverage of S-300F.


Moskva has orders to shoot down any threat to our Aircraft without warning. As soon as a threat is detected, missiles will be dispatched to eliminate it.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Its spelled Martian.



From MARS


----------



## 帅的一匹

SiCiSi said:


> He must leave because their American masters said so.


only China and Russia join hands could make sure there is justice. I think tactical nukes might be applied if Russia has war with Turkey.

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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> From MARS


Martian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

lol

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## The-king

SiCiSi said:


> Moskva has orders to shoot down any threat to our Aircraft without warning. As soon as a threat is detected, missiles will be dispatched to eliminate it.


Wait for the NATO and US their weapons are quite advance as compared to Russia,

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## Jason Zhao

C130 said:


> Turkey has it's own plans
> 
> thinking that Turkey is a pawn of the U.S


THEN ALL THE WORD WILL THINK US AND TURKEY ARE SUPPORTING ISIS.... THIS IS NOT A CORRECT WAY

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## ultron

The-king said:


> Wait for the NATO and US their weapons are quite advance as compared to Russia,




They don't dare to fight Russia.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> Moskva has orders to shoot down any threat to our Aircraft without warning. As soon as a threat is detected, missiles will be dispatched to eliminate it.



And its neck will break with one hit of a MK-48


----------



## SiCiSi

wanglaokan said:


> only China and Russia join hands could make sure there is justice. I think tactical nukes might be applied if Russia has war with Turkey.



They will be as Turkey is considered a significant military force. What the world seems to forget is, with us, nuclear weapons are always an option.

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## rcrmj

I guess the ISIS are celebrating over this event under basement now```the world is coming close to a hope of forming an alliance to eradicate ISIS terror```and now that hope diminishes after the stupidity of Erdogan```

escorting Su-24 out of Turkey's aerospace is 100 times smarter than shooting them down! It is very much contemplated

so now who are still believing Turkey is not a terror supporter? Financially, politically, culturally, they are the official sponsors of terrorists

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## KTOOOOM

wanglaokan said:


> What is Saudi mainstay view toward this event?


only news report
but if Russia reacted military they will taste the Saudi falcon claws on the fish eating bear.
not that turkey need Saudi support they are more than capable to shy up the caniform.


----------



## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> And its neck will break with one hit of a MK-48



Do you really want to see what the double flash of a nuclear bomb looks like? Because that will be our reply. 

Total nuclear annihilation.

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## 帅的一匹

i think the only reason why CHINA doesnt deploy fighter to bomb ISIL is because we have to care Saudi feeling, while we will provide help if Russia need for example in the way of 15 billions of Gas advance payment.

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## Gazprom

Hakan said:


> If Turkey feels threatened it can shut down the Turkish straits thus ending Putin's play time in Syria. This is why Russia will not do anything serious. Even if Russia reacts it works out for Turkey because we can close the straits thus finishing off Assad as Russian troops get no resupply and Assad gets no resupply.



And Russia can mine the straits via submarines. So ? Russian resupply is primariliy via iran-iraq aviation route via an-124


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## rcrmj

Hurshid Celebi said:


> And its neck will break with one hit of a MK-48


lol, dont talk about sub war to Russia, they are the master, Turkey is nobody even with all the fancy weapons bought and supplied by US daddy and EU countries

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## SiCiSi

rcrmj said:


> I guess the ISIS are celebrating over this event under basement now```the world is coming close to a hope of forming an alliance to eradicate ISIS terror```and now that hope diminishes after the stupidity of Erdogan```
> 
> escorting Su-24 out of Turkey's aerospace is 100 times smarter than shooting them down! It is very much contemplated
> 
> so now who are still believing Turkey is not a terror supporter? Financially, politically, culturally, they are the official sponsors of terrorists



Everyone knows that.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> They will be as Turkey is considered a significant military force



You obviously fear classic warfare. cause you will have never a chance. Coward nuke threat


----------



## Jason Zhao

SiCiSi said:


> NATO members cannot go to the bathroom before asking their American masters first, let alone an EU wannabe like turkey.


What do you think Russia will do please? Chinese all think Turkey is crazy...

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## Hurshid Celebi

rcrmj said:


> Russia, they are the master



Russia is master of all. Russia rules the world. Oh man slogans.., slogans...


----------



## SiCiSi

The-king said:


> Wait for the NATO and US their weapons are quite advance as compared to Russia,



The definition of Nut Swinger. 

Stop sitting on America's lap calling them daddy and develop something yourself.

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## salarsikander

Nilgiri said:


> It is clear with the S-300 movements appearing in the news that Putin had planned something like this to happen.
> 
> This gives about a weeks time for Russian forces to easily redeploy with minimal worldwide objections since Russia now has a clear aegis of "we need air defense in the border area for our combat planes" to use.
> 
> Its a drop in a bucket (the Su-24 on the sacrificial altar) for a much larger vat of strategic buffer for the Russians to bring under their overall objectives.
> 
> Turkey will soon be unable to penetrate or even approach Syrian airspace.
> 
> They can escalate by deploying wild weasels, but seeing how this latest effort of theirs has failed to arouse NATOs sympathies on any major level (and if it was some attempt to invoke article V of the charter as some are speculating, it has spectacularly backfired I would say).....I doubt the Turks would do that.
> 
> Basically in the name of "honour", they have closed off many options available to them. But then again some Turkish member said honour matters above all else, so there you have it.
> 
> Russians on the other hand are long term veterans in these sort of tactics....and they have the resources (long and short term) to do so. Just sit back and watch as the Russians now shore up their presence in the Syrian border areas and probably launch a massive combined offensive up to the Turkish border (to wipe out all Turkish backed proxies)....under the protection afforded to them by S-300 and ship based anti-air.....while Turkey watches on helplessly.
> 
> Russians are too smart to retaliate against Turkey itself. They will however put whatever sanctions they can on Turkey and take firm action against pro-Turkey groups in Syria....and probably back the Kurds (Both PKK and Peshmerga) heavily.
> 
> Lets wait and see.


Hi,

That's one way to put it sir.

Great analysis

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## rcrmj

SiCiSi said:


> Everyone knows that.


including the Turks, and they did that on purpose, all the people who have consciousness know that!

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## Hurshid Celebi

Jason Zhao said:


> What do you think Russia will do please? Chinese all think Turkey is crazy...



In long term they will try to revenge military. Now they will support terror organizations against Turkey.


----------



## KTOOOOM

SiCiSi said:


> They will be as Turkey is considered a significant military force. What the world seems to forget is, with us, nuclear weapons are always an option.


news flash every one can get nukes.
news flash you are not the only one with nukes.
news flash nukes is a deterrent against nuke.

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## SiCiSi

Jason Zhao said:


> What do you think Russia will do please? Chinese all think Turkey is crazy...



We have closed down air space through our guided missile cruiser with orders to shoot without warning.

Now we will completely eliminate the Turkmen militia. Then the moderate/extreme rebels like FSA, ISIS, XYZ.

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## Gazprom

Hurshid Celebi said:


> You obviously fear classic warfare. cause you will have never a chance. Coward nuke threat



It would be attack on command and control via hypersonic weapons and strategic aviation .Followed by mass bombardment after the first phase is accomplished. The first phase has potential for use of low yield nuclear weapons targetting underground command and control facilities,airfields, Logistical centers,munition depots .Then the standard ops can be following after the first phase is accomplished.


----------



## SiCiSi

KTOOOOM said:


> news flash every one can get nukes.
> news flash you are not the only one with nukes.
> news flash nukes is a deterrent against nuke.


"news flash every one can get nukes."

lol

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## Jason Zhao

Now I understand why IS IS can be strong, why ISIS can not be eliminated, just because of you, you, you can you....

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## KTOOOOM

SiCiSi said:


> "news flash every one can get nukes."
> 
> lol


news flash 
*How to Buy Nukes on the Black Market - YouTube*


----------



## Jason Zhao

Hurshid Celebi said:


> In long term they will try to revenge military. Now they will support terror organizations against Turkey.


I do not think Russia will support Terror against Turkey, I think it is better to go to fight with ISIS, and Russia and Turkey's problem should be solved later. as now this most important is ISIS

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## SiCiSi

Nilgiri said:


> It is clear with the S-300 movements appearing in the news that Putin had planned something like this to happen.
> 
> This gives about a weeks time for Russian forces to easily redeploy with minimal worldwide objections since Russia now has a clear aegis of "we need air defense in the border area for our combat planes" to use.
> 
> Its a drop in a bucket (the Su-24 on the sacrificial altar) for a much larger vat of strategic buffer for the Russians to bring under their overall objectives.
> 
> Turkey will soon be unable to penetrate or even approach Syrian airspace.
> 
> They can escalate by deploying wild weasels, but seeing how this latest effort of theirs has failed to arouse NATOs sympathies on any major level (and if it was some attempt to invoke article V of the charter as some are speculating, it has spectacularly backfired I would say).....I doubt the Turks would do that.
> 
> Basically in the name of "honour", they have closed off many options available to them. But then again some Turkish member said honour matters above all else, so there you have it.
> 
> Russians on the other hand are long term veterans in these sort of tactics....and they have the resources (long and short term) to do so. Just sit back and watch as the Russians now shore up their presence in the Syrian border areas and probably launch a massive combined offensive up to the Turkish border (to wipe out all Turkish backed proxies)....under the protection afforded to them by S-300 and ship based anti-air.....while Turkey watches on helplessly.
> 
> Russians are too smart to retaliate against Turkey itself. They will however put whatever sanctions they can on Turkey and take firm action against pro-Turkey groups in Syria....and probably back the Kurds (Both PKK and Peshmerga) heavily.
> 
> Lets wait and see.



What an extremely well thought out reply. Better than I could say it.

"Russians on the other hand are long term veterans in these sort of tactics"

This is what people dont understand. Look at the turks here, they are super excited over something they dont even understand the long term consequences of like its their first rodeo.

We on the other hand have been playing these games for decades.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> We have closed down air space through our guided missile cruiser with orders to shoot without warning.



We closed airspace long before and warned all of new ROE, now we reacted as you know.
I am waiting to see that Moskva shots down an allied Force Plane,
from USA, JORDAN, France, GB oh man keep factual


----------



## gangsta_rap

howls of the wolf in the cold winter....


----------



## Jason Zhao

SiCiSi said:


> We have closed down air space through our guided missile cruiser with orders to shoot without warning.
> 
> Now we will completely eliminate the Turkmen militia. Then the moderate/extreme rebels like FSA, ISIS, XYZ.


I agree, Turkey and Russia's problem can be sloved later, Terrorist should be first, then Russia can win this war. 
Chinese support Russia.

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## illusion8

Gazprom said:


> It would be attack on command and control via hypersonic weapons and strategic aviation .Followed by mass bombardment after the first phase is accomplished. The first phase has potential for use of low yield nuclear weapons targetting underground command and control facilities,airfields, Logistical centers,munition depots .Then the standard ops can be following after the first phase is accomplished.



Nothing of that sort is going to happen...unless Russian mainland is critically threatened. 

Though logically...Turkey can expect some consequences. It just painted itself a bullseye.

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## 帅的一匹

rcrmj said:


> I guess the ISIS are celebrating over this event under basement now```the world is coming close to a hope of forming an alliance to eradicate ISIS terror```and now that hope diminishes after the stupidity of Erdogan```
> 
> escorting Su-24 out of Turkey's aerospace is 100 times smarter than shooting them down! It is very much contemplated
> 
> so now who are still believing Turkey is not a terror supporter? Financially, politically, culturally, they are the official sponsors of terrorists


you forget Erdogan is a religious fanatic? his daughter is bigbfan of ISIL. they only remember ISIL is sunni, while forget their brutal killing. when you take devil as brother, you are fcked up.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Jason Zhao said:


> I agree, Turkey and Russia's problem can be sloved later, Terrorist should be first, then Russia can win this war.
> Chinese support Russia.



Jason, Russia doesn't fight IS. Look in my former post. I published a map which targets they bomb. They want to keep ASAD the mass murder as Head of Government and build military bases in Syria , navy , airforce and land forces as a revenge of NATOs enlargement


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## Ice Cube

Asad is much better than islamist terrorist rebels.


----------



## 帅的一匹

in turkey's mind, Turkmen terrorists shalll not be punished and shall be protected.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

1. Firstly Turkey is with in their rights to protect their Airspace but there is a peaceful manner to
work with countries to reduce error

2. Seems like great Error , human error in communication between Turkey and Russia should not happen did the pilots understand each other's message in air for warning etc (Same language). Russians and Turkish pilots do not speak each other's language

3. Mr Putin had instructed the Russian crew to work closely with regional players , and Turkey should have
also taken a step back and tried to work it out


Again quite tragic as both nations are quite peaceful nations in last 20-25 years. Russia and Turkey have never threatened each other before that I recall as incident as this before

I am quite saddened by these events and loss of life


I sincerely hope that thru dialog and discussion the military heads of both nation can sit down to investigate the tragic events in Air space intrusion and understand how these accidents can be limited in future


When flying a plane at Mach 2 , it is so easy to cross the international border or territory as you don't see big line on ground that says you are now in Turkey or you left Syria

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## Hurshid Celebi

illusion8 said:


> Nothing of that sort is going to happen



 Exactly.


----------



## 帅的一匹

in turkey's mind, Turkmen terrorists shalll not be punished and shall be protected.

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## Jason Zhao

Beast said:


> The Turkey will brother any Turkish for the sake of protecting. They dont care whether they are moderate or ISIS. Just like the Uyghur terrorist in China who slash and killed innocent children and woman, they also wanted to protect by setting up East Turkestan organisation in turkey and give political shelter to any Uyghur. While they claim double standard by enforcing their rights on Kurds.
> 
> Karma is coming for the Turkish.


That's why it is so complex, all the guys has their own mind, thats why Terrorist can be grown up


----------



## ultron

Turkey buys illegal oil from ISIS. Turkey will be punished for its crimes.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Ice Cube said:


> Asad is much better than islamist terrorist rebels.



A mass murder who killed more than 250.000 thousand own Syrian citizens. What a logic ?


----------



## ultron

Hurshid Celebi said:


> A mass murder who killed more than 250.000 thousand own Syrian citizens. What a logic ?




It's none of your business what* Syria*'s president does to *Syrian* people.

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## 帅的一匹

Hurshid Celebi said:


> A mass murder who killed more than 250.000 thousand own Syrian citizens. What a logic ?


dont tell me you never kill Kurds

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## Ice Cube

Hurshid Celebi said:


> A mass murder who killed more than 250.000 thousand own Syrian citizens. What a logic ?


saudi, turkey, qatar, jordan, US and west's interference in Syria is fueling the terror and chaos, the govt has every right to use force to oust these terrorists who live within the civilian populations.

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## Jason Zhao

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Jason, Russia doesn't fight IS. Look in my former post. I published a map which targets they bomb. They want to keep ASAD the mass murder as Head of Government and build military bases in Syria , navy , airforce and land forces as a revenge of NATOs enlargement


This is too complex, as We worry about terrorist, as China also has Terrorist, we do not want all the peace country go ot the war, To all of you should find a correct way to solve this problem, this is war, you can not show all of us the proof first, then you can do the next action, if Russia was really wrong, they should agree it, if not, Turkey have to stand out and clear this to the world.

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## Ice Cube

ultron said:


> It's none of your business what* Syria*'s president does to *Syrian* people.


they are all one ummah


----------



## 帅的一匹

ultron said:


> It's none of your business what* Syria*'s president does to *Syrian* people.


human right beyond soverighty, American logic. Asad is shiah, they take him as heresy.

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## Kyle Sun

I guess RU will swallow the bitter fruit which is made by themselves aIthough I hate Turks.

Just focus on bombing the ISIS or so called Turkmen , why the hell fly into Turk land ???/

It's stupid and reckless. Now Putin has pushed himself into a dead corner .

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## ultron

wanglaokan said:


> Asad is shiah, they take him as heresy.




Technically, Alawites are pagans.

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## 帅的一匹

they wont speak a simple word if Asad is sunni.

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## ultron

Kyle Sun said:


> why the hell fly into Turk land ???/




Bullshit.



wanglaokan said:


> they wont speak a simple word if Asad is sunni.




Gaddafi got killed. He was Sunni. Mubarak got killed. He was Sunni. Saddam got killed. He was Sunni.


----------



## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> Turkey buys illegal oil from ISIS. Turkey will be punished for its crimes.



Evidence ? 
But Kurdish Crude Oil was bought against all Protest of Bagdat Central Government from US -and Israeli companies.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Kyle Sun said:


> I guess RU will swallow the bitter fruit which is made by themselves aIthough I hate Turks.
> 
> Just focus on bombing the ISIS or so called Turkmen , why the hell fly into Turk land ???/
> 
> It's stupid and reckless. Now Putin has pushed himself into a dead corner .


get a life anywhere you falseflagger.

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## ultron

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Evidence ?
> But Kurdish Crude Oil was bought against all Protest of Bagdat Central Government from US -and Israeli companies.




Russia bombed thousands of oil trucks. ISIS has no port. So where the hell are they selling oil? Ye. Turkey. Turkey never bombed ISIS when they were in Kobani either.

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## Kyle Sun

KAL-EL said:


> The mature rational folks here know there will be no nuking anyone. Many of the belligerent nuke comments come from the usual PDF keyboard warriors.


We all know about that . Just for fun or troll.
It's only you who take that kind of comments so seriously.

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## Jason Zhao

Kyle Sun said:


> I guess RU will swallow the bitter fruit which is made by themselves aIthough I hate Turks.
> 
> Just focus on bombing the ISIS or so called Turkmen , why the hell fly into Turk land ???/
> 
> It's stupid and reckless. Now Putin has pushed himself into a dead corner .





Kyle Sun said:


> I guess RU will swallow the bitter fruit which is made by themselves aIthough I hate Turks.
> 
> Just focus on bombing the ISIS or so called Turkmen , why the hell fly into Turk land ???/
> 
> It's stupid and reckless. Now Putin has pushed himself into a dead corner .


you are really crazy!!!

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## 帅的一匹

ultron said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaddafi got killed. He was Sunni. Mubarak got killed. He was Sunni. Saddam got killed. He was Sunni.


I mean Turkey and GULF cuntries, USA wont care you are Sunni or Shiah.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Kyle Sun said:


> I hate Turks



Why ? I love most Chinese and visited your country and was not offended.


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## Malik Alashter

KTOOOOM said:


> why are you butthurt big mama does not look stronk no more.


So what big mama is?.

Second I'm not but-hurt at all all this has nothing to do with me.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Can someone elaborate what is a "Turkman" rebel????
That people keep referring to

What is Turkman Rebel doing in Syria and how does that impacts Syrian - Russian relations


Turkman Rebel
PKK
ISIS
Syrian Rebel
US sponsored rebel
Shia Rebel
Kurd Rebel
Saudi Sponsored Rebel


Whose else should be there on the list


----------



## ultron

wanglaokan said:


> I mean Turkey and GULF cuntries, USA wont care you are Sunni or Shiah.




Turkey and Gulf don't care about Sunni and Shia. If Gulf is really hardcore Muslim they would not buy from kaffar countries like the US.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Can someone elaborate what is a "Turkman" rebel????
> That people keep referring to
> 
> What is Turkman Rebel doing in Syria and how does that impacts Syrian - Russian relations




There is a small Turkman minority in Syria, less than 1%, mainly in northern Latakia province.

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## Kyle Sun

wanglaokan said:


> get a life anywhere you falseflagger.


Easy ! Easy ! Man !

I just post what I think.


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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> Turkey never bombed ISIS when they were in Kobani either.



Turkey allowed 1000 Peshmerga to pass via Turkey to free Kobane.
Your "enemies" the TÜRKMEN militia fighted at that time together with the KURDS.

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## Nilgiri

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Can someone elaborate what is a "Turkman" rebel????
> That people keep referring to
> 
> What is Turkman Rebel doing in Syria and how does that impacts Syrian - Russian relations
> 
> 
> Turkman Rebel
> PKK
> ISIS
> Syrian Rebel
> US sponsored rebel
> 
> 
> Whose else should be there on the list



Who are the Turkmen in Syria? - BBC News


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## Jason Zhao

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Why ? I love most Chinese and visited your country and was not offended.


But frankly, I heared of many Turk do not like Chinese。。。。Anyway every country has this kind of thing.

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## flamer84

SiCiSi said:


> Do you really want to see what the double flash of a nuclear bomb looks like? Because that will be our reply.
> 
> Total nuclear annihilation.




Now,now Russkie zip that nuclear dick of yours.We all know it's impotent in these situations.

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## Hurshid Celebi

ultron said:


> There is a small Turkman minority in Syria, less than 1%, mainly in northern Latakia province



*Turkmen are estimated to number between 1.5 and 3.5 million.

A further unit - the Sultan Selim Brigade - is a pro-Kurdish group reportedly composed mainly of Turkmen from near Kobane.

Its fighters have long sided with the Kurdish-led People's Protection Units (YPG) and joined the US-backed Kurdish-led opposition coalition called the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) on 10 October.

The pro-Kurdish Turkmen fighters also took part in earlier YPG-led offensives against IS.

Who are the Turkmen in Syria? - BBC News*


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## Kyle Sun

Jason Zhao said:


> you are really crazy!!!



So I gonna ask one simple question .

Why RU fly over Turk Space ?? What's the point for such behavior ?

If Ru really wants to kick the *** of Turks , be ready at least.


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## Hurshid Celebi

Jason Zhao said:


> But frankly, I heared of many Turk do not like Chinese



Ultra right wing, that's right.


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## Jason Zhao

Kyle Sun said:


> So I gonna ask one simple question .
> 
> Why RU fly over Turk Space ?? What's the point for such behavior ?
> 
> If Ru really wants to kick the *** of Turks , be ready at least.


So, please tell me where they should please? Which rote is better please? you tell me


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## Kyle Sun

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Why ? I love most Chinese and visited your country and was not offended.


Your country supports the Uyghur terrorists in XinJiang .

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## Jason Zhao

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Ultra right wing, that's right.


Because of Chinese pepole think China Terrorist most has the relationship with Turky, that's why some of Chinese hate Turky. I think you should know Our Xijjiang, also last terrible things happened, Our Chinese people never seen it before....

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## Kyle Sun

Jason Zhao said:


> So, please tell me where they should please? Which rote is better please? you tell me



Ru has deployed many jets in Syria. And their targets are all in Syria .

Is that convictive enough ?


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## Jason Zhao

Kyle Sun said:


> Ru has deployed many jets in Syria. And their targets are all in Syria .
> 
> Is that convictive enough ?


Some Plane should fly from Russia to Syria, they have to find which way is best to them, they also need to consider the cost, that's not easy to say you can not go to Turky. This is a extreme mind.

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## The-king

SiCiSi said:


> The definition of Nut Swinger.
> 
> Stop sitting on America's lap calling them daddy and develop something yourself.


Shut up....

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## M.AsfandYar

SiCiSi said:


> I love how these idiots think shooting down one plane makes them special. Like we cant just burn their entire existence in a few minutes.
> 
> Its like a really small dog which is barking loudly. You cant help but laugh.


Can, will, should blah blah blah .
None of these words matter. U shouldn't make claims about things u have no control over. This is above you dear. Find something else to waste ur time over.

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## The-king

ultron said:


> They don't dare to fight Russia.


Russia can't dare to fight with righteous Turks.

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## Kyle Sun

Jason Zhao said:


> Some Plane should fly from Russia to Syria, they have to find which way is best to them, they also need to consider the cost, that's not easy to say you can not go to Turky. This is a extreme mind.



Come on ! Are you telling me Su24 can fly to Turk from RU ???

Do you even know how long is the operational radius of Su24 ?


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## mahatir

Russia will simply rapidly increase the rate of its carpet bombing campaign to annihilate the remaining Sunnis and Turkmen in Syria and arm PKK to the teeth .

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## Hurshid Celebi

Jason Zhao said:


> I think you should know Our Xijjiang, also last terrible things happened, Our Chinese people never seen it before....



I know your sensibility. But be sure our President visited short time before in JULY 2015 China and it was very friendly.

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## The-king



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## I <3 PAK ARMY

All of its happening is world war 3

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## Hurshid Celebi

I <3 PAK ARMY said:


> All of its happening is world war 3



Yes.


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## The-king

I <3 PAK ARMY said:


> All of its happening is world war 3


No i can write with blood nothing going to happen just verbal chit chat and little skirmishes

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## Ice Cube

I <3 PAK ARMY said:


> All of its happening is world war 3


sure feels like it


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## The-king



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## rashid.sarwar

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=547724138711293

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## PatriotLover

The-king said:


>




Please stop what you are doing. It is embarassing.

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## The-king

*Russia After Jet down*







PatriotLover said:


> Please stop what you are doing. It is embarassing.


What is embarrassing ? you false flogger.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I think in these times its best to hope Turkey and Russia can sit down sort the issue of air violation , via communication

Normally shooting down a plane which is mostly a ground based plane , perhaps not even carrying air to air , was perhaps a little bit too much

Flying 1-2 Km into territory or close to it , can happen naturally at Mach 2 flights , and just shows perhaps lack of communication between Turkish - Russian pilots

I still don't understand how the two pilots understood each other's calls if they both speak different language

If Turkish pilot gave out warning in Turkish or English , the Russian speaking pilot may not have even understood the call

Some of the Chinese counter part are stating China-Turkey do not have good relations what is the truth behind that statement which is showing up in this thread?

I think not long ago Turkey was purchasing Chinese SAMs

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## The-king

rashid.sarwar said:


> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=547724138711293


Change u r flags


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## Gazprom

illusion8 said:


> Nothing of that sort is going to happen...unless Russian mainland is critically threatened.
> 
> Though logically...Turkey can expect some consequences. It just painted itself a bullseye.



That remains to be seen.


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## rcrmj

Hurshid Celebi said:


> A mass murder who killed more than 250.000 thousand own Syrian citizens. What a logic ?


you lot killed way more than that innocent people, you are the least to talk about genocide and mass killing, fact

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

mahatir said:


> Russia will simply rapidly increase the rate of its carpet bombing campaign to annihilate the remaining Sunnis and Turkmen in Syria and arm PKK to the teeth .


They did many things in Afghanistan. The result, I suppose, you can remember. As for history, Russia invaded the Ottoman Empire during WW1 resulting in Bolshevik revolution. Let's see what the FATE has stored for us this time. However, I can say this much - the ultimate gainer will be China and Turkey. Off course the LORD knows the best. Note: this is nothing new for us. For the last thousand years we have seen much more extreme ups and downs. By HIS grace, we're still here.



mahatir said:


> Russia will simply rapidly increase the rate of its carpet bombing campaign to annihilate the remaining Sunnis and Turkmen in Syria and arm PKK to the teeth .


They did many things in Afghanistan. The result, I suppose, you can remember. As for history, Russia invaded the Ottoman Empire during WW1 resulting in Bolshevik revolution. Let's see what the FATE has stored for us this time. However, I can say this much - the ultimate gainer will be China and Turkey. Off course the LORD knows the best. Note: this is nothing new for us. For the last thousand years we have seen much more extreme ups and downs. By HIS grace, we're still here.

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## rashid.sarwar

Leaked Ankara UN letter claims Su-24's ‘air space violation’ lasted 17 seconds — RT News


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## rcrmj

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russia is master of all. Russia rules the world. Oh man slogans.., slogans...


ask your american daddy's opinion about Russia's under water fleet```you lot are too amateur to understand modern high tech warfare,

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## rashid.sarwar

The-king said:


> Change u r flags


Why...


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## Hurshid Celebi

Good morning


rashid.sarwar said:


> Leaked Ankara UN letter claims Su-24's ‘air space violation’ lasted 17 seconds — RT News



It is no leak I posted it here from Turkish Newspaper SABAH !


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## PatriotLover

The-king said:


> Change u r flags



So anyone with a different view point is a false flagger. Look, Turkey does not need our help, it has more than enough to handle Russia, plus NATO will give direct support.

We have our own problems which we must solve.

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## Hurshid Celebi

rcrmj said:


> you lot are too amateur to understand modern high tech warfare,



You are the same Ruskie with new identity, same words same claims, good morning ARMENIA


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## The-king

PatriotLover said:


> So anyone with a different view point is a false flagger. Look, Turkey does not need our help, it has more than enough to handle Russia, plus NATO will give direct support.
> 
> We have our own problems which we must solve.


SHUT UP don't quote me

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## A2Z

Tipu7 said:


> Let's hope we will see F16 vs Su30 action too.........


Do you even realize what you are wishing for? Such a confrontation would bring Russia and Turkey face to face which is not good for anyone.


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## The-king

rashid.sarwar said:


> Leaked Ankara UN letter claims Su-24's ‘air space violation’ lasted 17 seconds — RT News


Want to test our BVR you have any problem


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Im a staunch and firm supporter and backer of Turkish great nation and their Armed Forces. But on this i must take a moral position. Russia is fighting ISIS - if NATO is serious about fighting ISIS (it isnt, it's supporting ISIS) then they would let the Russians do their job. Syrian govt. authorized them to be in Syrian airspace. 

Proper protocol is to make radio contact and/or intercept the SU-24s and escort them out if they intrude Turkish air space despite warnings to desist. Shooting down the aircraft was a huge escalation and not necessary (my opinion). The poor pilot of that aircraft was hit by small arms fire by FSA/ISIS terrorists supported by Obama govt Qatar etc and others (France even). IS this right? Do these terrorists care a damn about Geneva Conventions? Russia has my support when it comes to anti ISIS operations and saving Syria from destruction. Russia and Turkiye need to quickly sit down and un-do the flames before they become on a direct confrontation course which would only help to serve ISIS (Daish). **** that. Dont lose focus from the mission! 

Obama and USA - stop supporting ISIS!

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## rcrmj

Hurshid Celebi said:


> You are the same Ruskie with new identity, same words same claims, good morning ARMENIA


lol```very smart and convincing, just like your Erdogan, bold but stupid

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Erdogan and Assad used to be great buddies lol, its too bad Erdogan got involved in Syrias problem. It was a mistake now Turkiye has to deal with millions of refugees and other mess. PKK and Kurdish forces are taking advantage of situation and vested interests in the region - they are fighting Turkiye too and making problems. What a mess! Anyways - as long as Daish ("ISIS") is targeted - whoever targets them has my 100% blessing and prayers. **** DAISH

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## rashid.sarwar

The-king said:


> Want to test our BVR you have any problem


Then if we test our BRV then you shouldn't have any problem


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Im a staunch and firm supporter and backer of Turkish great nation and their Armed Forces. But on this i must take a moral position. Russia is fighting ISIS - if NATO is serious about fighting ISIS (it isnt, it's supporting ISIS) then they would let the Russians do their job. Syrian govt. authorized them to be in Syrian airspace.
> 
> Proper protocol is to make radio contact and/or intercept the SU-24s and escort them out if they intrude Turkish air space despite warnings to desist. Shooting down the aircraft was a huge escalation and not necessary (my opinion). The poor pilot of that aircraft was hit by small arms fire by FSA/ISIS terrorists supported by Obama govt Qatar etc and others (France even). IS this right? Do these terrorists care a damn about Geneva Conventions? Russia has my support when it comes to anti ISIS operations and saving Syria from destruction. Russia and Turkiye need to quickly sit down and un-do the flames before they become on a direct confrontation course which would only help to serve ISIS (Daish). **** that. Dont lose focus from the mission!
> 
> Obama and USA - stop supporting ISIS!



A well observed post 100% agree , while Turkey was 100% correct (By the book) , however protocol was not followed for safety like 10-17 second warning for a pilot that does not speak English or Turkish , is not enough time for a pilot to react that they are in wrong territory

A regrettable accident and unnecessary loss of life

I don't think great danger was posed to Turkish Air space by the ground operation based Sukhoi plane

And merely , escorting the plane out would have been reasonable response to protect Turkish airspace and no escalation


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## Tipu7

A2Z said:


> Do you even realize what you are wishing for? Such a confrontation would bring Russia and Turkey face to face which is not good for anyone.


If senior people here can wish for Nuclear strike on Turkey, then why can't I wish for a little dog fight???


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## mahatir

HAKIKAT said:


> They did many things in Afghanistan. The result, I suppose, you can remember. As for history, Russia invaded the Ottoman Empire during WW1 resulting in Bolshevik revolution. Let's see what the FATE has stored for us this time. However, I can say this much - the ultimate gainer will be China and Turkey. Off course the LORD knows the best. Note: this is nothing new for us. For the last thousand years we have seen much more extreme ups and downs. By HIS grace, we're still here.
> 
> 
> They did many things in Afghanistan. The result, I suppose, you can remember. As for history, Russia invaded the Ottoman Empire during WW1 resulting in Bolshevik revolution. Let's see what the FATE has stored for us this time. However, I can say this much - the ultimate gainer will be China and Turkey. Off course the LORD knows the best. Note: this is nothing new for us. For the last thousand years we have seen much more extreme ups and downs. By HIS grace, we're still here.



Even if you did not shot the plane down this was the Russian plan from the begining . The Russians are modern day Nazis , killing and exterminating others is part of their culture . Unfortunate that such savages exist in our world .

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## T-123456

ultron said:


> It's none of your business what* Syria*'s president does to *Syrian* people.


*It is our business* when 2 million flee to our country,its none of your business.

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## mahatir

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Erdogan and Assad used to be great buddies lol, its too bad Erdogan got involved in Syrias problem. It was a mistake now Turkiye has to deal with millions of refugees and other mess. PKK and Kurdish forces are taking advantage of situation and vested interests in the region - they are fighting Turkiye too and making problems. What a mess! Anyways - as long as Daish ("ISIS") is targeted - whoever targets them has my 100% blessing and prayers. **** DAISH



Killing Turkmen peasants has nothing to do with fighting isil dont fall for the Russian propaganda .

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## The-king

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> A well observed post 100% agree , while Turkey was 100% correct , however protocol was not followed for safety like 10-17 second warning for a pilot that does not speak English or Turkish , is not enough time for a pilot to react that they are in wrong territory
> 
> A regrettable accident and unnecessary loss of life
> 
> I don't think great danger was posed to Turkish Air space by the ground operation based Sukhoi plane


What if they repeatedly ignore warnings on daily basis, what you suppose to do? Many time Turkish President protest their violations and i am happy they are not like us just issue statements even we not dare to shoot down unarmed drone. What is our stance when the come deep inside for the raid.

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## Hurshid Celebi

Now it is confirmed the Russian Pilot "was able to understand Turkish" his name was AHMADOV;
one was already killed when the aircraft exploded in the air. His body will be treated with honor and delivered to Russia.



AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> pilot that does not speak English or Turkish , is not enough time for a pilot to react that they are in wrong territory

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## Abu Zolfiqar

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> A well observed post 100% agree , while Turkey was 100% correct , however protocol was not followed for safety like 10-17 second warning for a pilot that does not speak English or Turkish , is not enough time for a pilot to react that they are in wrong territory
> 
> A regrettable accident and unnecessary loss of life



as per news - it entered Turkish territory for 30 seconds before it was shot down. TuAF already had 2 F-16s deployed to intercept the SU-24. There were 10 ground warnings before the aircrafts took off (I guess they left Incirlik Air Base). They can paint the aircraft and give threatening warnings to 'GTFO' of Turkish airspace but shooting down the aircraft was in my view a bit extreme. Pilot was just following orders. 

ISIS and FSA dont follow Geneva Conventions.,...those animals machine gunned one of the pilots as he was helplessly floating to earth on parachute with no way to shoot back. That's some coward azz behaviour. The other pilot who knows who has him and will probably behead him like savages if he's alive. And then this happened when they tried to find and extract him

Russia Loses Attack Jet And Helicopter In Syria In One Day: Here's What We Know


Russia's Putin will be understandably PISSED OFF and this just takes away attention from what should be the mission....to stop this DAISH madness at any cost

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Again , 10-17 second is very little time to check your own radar confirm you position and take evasive action

This was not really necessary

If Ground warnings were made , 4-5, and then planes engaged , then we really have to ask , why there was lack of communication between Turkish and Russian counter parts to contact the Sukhoi pilot and ask why he was not responding to calls from Turkish side and retreating to Syria

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## Jason Zhao

Kyle Sun said:


> Come on ! Are you telling me Su24 can fly to Turk from RU ???
> 
> Do you even know how long is the operational radius of Su24 ?


You must see only 17 seconds in Turkey, then shoot down on Syria


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## Abu Zolfiqar

mahatir said:


> Killing Turkmen peasants has nothing to do with fighting isil dont fall for the Russian propaganda .



Im not, trust me. I'm looking at it very neutrally. I know that Russia is also fighting other proxies like FSA (which indeed do also have moderates not just hardliners -but the hardliners are scary enough - they are not nation-builders all they know is shooting stuff and blowing up statues and old cultural places and saying "Allahu Akbar" before doing destructive things that are not benefiting Syria



T-123456 said:


> *It is our business* when 2 million flee to our country,its none of your business.



The costs on Turkiye have been huge indeed.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Can someone elaborate what is a "Turkman" rebel????
> That people keep referring to
> 
> What is Turkman Rebel doing in Syria and how does that impacts Syrian - Russian relations
> 
> 
> Turkman Rebel
> PKK
> ISIS
> Syrian Rebel
> US sponsored rebel
> Shia Rebel
> Kurd Rebel
> Saudi Sponsored Rebel
> 
> 
> Whose else should be there on the list


Dear friend, when you don't have strong governments all the alphabet soup organizations, video-game states etc. spring up resulting in total anarchy and loss of innocent people's lives and property. Hence, Kuran-I-Kerim lashes out extreme punishments to the anarchists. Now that all have started, InshaAllah, it'll end up in a strong unionist government like the Ottoman state that we had before because people from different races will demand that. Stable sates like Turkey and Pakistan will have a very positive role to play. Some people from Pakistan in this forum, I find, are quite skeptical about Pakistan. I just want to remind them history repeats itself. Doesn't your land produced the likes of Sultan Alemgir before, or Kaid-I-Azam in the recent past? Already a positive wind of change is blowing. Please remember in every sincere action of a believer a thousand "berakets" are bestowed. We are under the protection of an All Knowing, All Seeing, All Hearing LORD. With salam and dua..

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## Kyle Sun

Jason Zhao said:


> You must see only 17 seconds in Turkey, then shoot down on Syria


It does not matter how long this time is. 

Will you allow me to stay in your bedroom for 17s without your permission ?

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## KAL-EL

Kyle Sun said:


> We all know about that . Just for fun or troll.
> It's only you who take that kind of comments so seriously.



Actually, quite a few people besides myself here have made similar type comments. and just for the record, it's not about "taking that kind of comments so seriously" It's about maintaining some amount of sanity and common sense.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

HAKIKAT said:


> Dear friend, when you don't have strong governments all the alphabet soup organizations, video-game states etc. spring up resulting in total anarchy and loss of innocent people's lives and property. Hence, Kuran-I-Kerim lashes out extreme punishments to the anarchists. Now that all have started, InshaAllah, it'll end up in a strong unionist government like the Ottoman state that we had before because people from different races will demand that. Stable sates like Turkey and Pakistan will have a very positive role to play. Some people from Pakistan in this forum, I find, are quite skeptical about Pakistan. I just want to remind them history repeats itself. Doesn't your land produced the likes of Sultan Alemgir before, or Kaid-I-Azam in the recent past? Already a positive wind of change is blowing. Please remember in every sincere action of a believer a thousand "berakets" are bestowed. We are under the protection of an All Knowing, All Seeing, All Hearing LORD. With salam and dua..



This is true. But dont make the same mistakes we made


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## Hurshid Celebi

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> as per news - it entered Turkish territory for 30 seconds before it was shot down. TuAF already had 2 F-16s deployed to intercept the SU-24. There were 10 ground warnings before the aircrafts took off



It happened many times. It was a test from Russia how far they could go;

remember our test when 2012 a Turkish F-4 E was shot down in International Waters from a Russian missile located at TARTUS PORT

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## Kyle Sun

KAL-EL said:


> Actually, quite a few people besides myself here have made similar type comments. and just for the record, it's not about "taking that kind of comments so seriously" It's about maintaining some amount of sanity and common sense.


As you mentioned , it's common sense. No one likes the doomsday including those guys who use nuke as their pet phrase. 
Just pet phrase.

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## Nilgiri

Kyle Sun said:


> As you mentioned , it's common sense. No one likes the doomsday including those guys who use nuke as their pet phrase.
> Just pet phrase.



Many of them also got banned. Serious or not, you dont throw words like that around so cheaply, and expect everyone to ignore you and take it as some big joke. 

People like that have to live through a war to understand its reality.

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## noksss

So the Americans cant tolerate the way Russians are fighting ISIS as their strategic assets(terrorist) are being wiped . Americans have the history of hiding behind someone else @ss to fight their enemy they used Pakistan against Russia in 90's and now turkey . I sincerely hope putin provokes Americans the same way how they are doing it to others

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## The-king

noksss said:


> So the Americans cant tolerate the way Russians are fighting ISIS as their strategic assets(terrorist) are being wiped . Americans have the history of hiding behind someone else @ss to fight their enemy they used Pakistan against Russia in 90's and now turkey . I sincerely hope putin provokes Americans the same way how they are doing it to others

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## Ulysses

What's more concerning is that Putin has not much to loose and we have lots to loose if a conventional war occurs.

Russian GDP equals to Texas alone and it's just 1 state.

In the other hand Putin must realize that Turkey is no push over...

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## 帅的一匹

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> I think in these times its best to hope Turkey and Russia can sit down sort the issue of air violation , via communication
> 
> Normally shooting down a plane which is mostly a ground based plane , perhaps not even carrying air to air , was perhaps a little bit too much
> 
> Flying 1-2 Km into territory or close to it , can happen naturally at Mach 2 flights , and just shows perhaps lack of communication between Turkish - Russian pilots
> 
> I still don't understand how the two pilots understood each other's calls if they both speak different language
> 
> If Turkish pilot gave out warning in Turkish or English , the Russian speaking pilot may not have even understood the call
> 
> Some of the Chinese counter part are stating China-Turkey do not have good relations what is the truth behind that statement which is showing up in this thread?
> 
> I think not long ago Turkey was purchasing Chinese SAMs


they cancel and restore the deal forth and back several times, i think they want buy it but they cant due to NATO pressure. Glitch held because Turkey support Turkic Uyghers terrorists in Xingjiang.

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## Hakan

Gazprom said:


> And Russia can mine the straits via submarines. So ? Russian resupply is primariliy via iran-iraq aviation route via an-124


Check yoruk isik account on twitter, you will see all of the pictures of Russian military supply ships passing through the Turkish straits enroute to Syria.

Yörük Işık (@YorukIsik) | Twitter

They can't mine the straits

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## Holmes2

Turkey will soon have to pay the price for this.


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## ebrahym

mean no disrespect to anyone but turkey is being used like a disposible front line soldier exactly like pakistan was used in afghan war ......... they are trying to be all NATO and EU infact they are a part of MIDEAST ..... i think they should think about Russian as they ruskies always had a friendly attitude towards them ..... just my opinion ..... turks know whats best for their country

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## The-king

*Breaking news another sad development one Russian soldier died while in rescuing the downed jet.*
@Hakan

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## pher

lonelyman said:


> Good to know decent reasonable Turks exist. We welcome any friends and try to get along with everybody...
> 
> But why your government support Uighur terrorists and give Turkey passports to them? Most of Chinese are really really pissed off about this. Beforehand we like Turkey, appreciate its history and culture and its people, like its efforts to build a modern Muslim society, more and more Chinese tourists likes to travel to Turkey.
> 
> But your support of Uighurs terrorists completed changed this, most Chinese don't harbor any ill will to Turkey, but after your government constant meddling in our internal affairs, I wouldn't say it is same as before.


Don't be naive to fall into this kind of sweet talk. most of chinese have a very negtive opinion about them, even most people in that area. and this will not change.

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## The-king

The-king said:


> *Breaking news another sad development one Russian soldier died while in rescuing the downed jet.*
> @Hakan


A Russian soldier has been killed whilst taking part in an operation to recover two pilots who were shot down by the Turkish air force near the border with Syria, the Russian military has said.

A soldier on the rescue operation to recover the crewmen also died, it is claimed by Russia's Military General Staff.

The fate of the two pilots from the SU-24 attack aircraft seems uncertain, however.

Turkish authorities say both are still alive despite earlier claims the pair were shot and killed by Turkmen rebels as they descended via parachute.


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## 帅的一匹

The-king said:


> *Breaking news another sad development one Russian soldier died while in rescuing the downed jet.*
> @Hakan


they used Tow anti tank missile destroyed the Mi8 sent to rescue the pilots.

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## Arron Bert

Turkey has only option of going with Chinese now as NATO and now Russia is getting against it. Regionally, many ethnic groups are rising in Turkey.


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## The-king

wanglaokan said:


> they used Dow anti tank missile destroyed the Mi8 sent to rescue the pilots.


DOW or TOW ?


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## jammersat

Turkey can say bye bye to the EU dream

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## 帅的一匹

The-king said:


> DOW or TOW ?


tow, typo.

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## Nilgiri

Patience guys, give some time for Russia to respond. Once they have established the fate/security of their pilots, lots of heads are going to be rolling. They are still reorganising and redeploying right now.

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## 帅的一匹

Arron Bert said:


> Turkey has only option of going with Chinese now as NATO and now Russia is getting against it. Regionally, many ethnic groups are rising in Turkey.


please dont bring in China, w'd lots of issue to deal with.



jammersat said:


> Turkey can say bye bye to the EU dream


HOW CAN MUSLIM AND CRUSADERS FORM MILITIA ALLIANCE, I DONT UNDERSTAND.

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## jammersat

wanglaokan said:


> , I DONT UNDERSTAND.



me neither

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## MadDog

If the intrusion took place, Turkey has every right to defend its airspace. Same thing happened in 1980’s when Soviet aircraft entered Pak airspace and PAF F-16’s shot down 8 of the intruders.

However, I believe Turkey should not be part of any conflict. A few years ago, a map was released in a predicted scenario in a US Naval Academy. It predicted redrawing of the Middle East map. They wanted to divide Iraq among Shias, Sunni and Kurds..and it happened..with ISIS retaining Sunni areas, govt in Shia areas, and Kurds in their autonomous region. It predicted breakup of western regions of Pak, which couldn’t happen as Pakistan’s military and civilian institutions proved too powerful and stable for that too happen. They also predicted breakup of Kurdish region from Turkey on which Turkey protested back then, when the map was published. I believe all of this is to entrap Turkey, Turkey should learn from our experience. We fought on behalf of western powers in Afghanistan, look what we had to go through. Now we are out of that quagmire, after sacrificing a lot of resources and human lives. It took almost 3 decades.


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## victor07

It is already exactly known that Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down over the territory of Syria by a Turkish fighter. Turkish fighter at that time was also over the territory of Syria. The crew of the Su-24 did not expect the attack and was not warned. One of the pilots was killed after ejection in the air from the ground by mujahideen. The second pilot was rescued, with the support of the Syrian army.
Turks after the attack behaved like cowardly jackals. Instead of a direct dialogue with Russia, rushed to hide behind the NATO. Thus Turkey from supporting terrorists in Syria, without declaring war, moved to direct combat provocations against Russia on the side of the terrorists.
Current Russian military action against Turkey:
All contacts with Turkey on military lines will be discontinued.
All targets that represent a potential danger for the Russian forces over Syria will be downed. The corresponding order was given cruiser Moskva. В Генштабе рассказали об ответных мерах на сбитый Турцией Су-24
Economic measures are being addressed.
I think it would be right to arm Kurds with modern air defense weapons.
Turkey is certainly more to lose from this provocation, than gain. And the benefits from this provocation are only to United States.
Video from the side of Syrian Army of downed aircraft and rescue mission.

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## A2Z

Tipu7 said:


> If senior people here can wish for Nuclear strike on Turkey, then why can't I wish for a little dog fight???


Well we can wish for whatever we want but one thing is for sure whether its a dogfight or a nuclear strike, innocent muslims will lose their lives.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

MadDog said:


> If the intrusion took place, Turkey has every right to defend its airspace. Same thing happened in 1980’s when Soviet aircraft entered Pak airspace and PAF F-16’s shot down 8 of the intruders.
> 
> However, I believe Turkey should not be part of any conflict. A few years ago, a map was released in a predicted scenario in a US Naval Academy. It predicted redrawing of the Middle East map. They wanted to divide Iraq among Shias, Sunni and Kurds..and it happened..with ISIS retaining Sunni areas, govt in Shia areas, and Kurds in their autonomous region. It predicted breakup of western regions of Pak, which couldn’t happen as Pakistan’s military and civilian institutions proved too powerful and stable for that too happen. They also predicted breakup of Kurdish region from Turkey on which Turkey protested back then, when the map was published. I believe all of this is to entrap Turkey, Turkey should learn from our experience. We fought on behalf of western powers in Afghanistan, look what we had to go through. Now we are out of that quagmire, after sacrificing a lot of resources and human lives. It took almost 3 decades.


Don't worry brother. The world powers are being redrawn. Lots of upheavals are expected just like birth pain. However, for the believers this is the darkest period before the dawn. As for Russia, they invaded the Ottoman Empire resulting in the Bolshevik Revolution. Afghan invasion broke up the USSR. There's something funny about the Russians. They break down unexpectedly, so is their equipment. Extreme stubbornness seldom helps. Moreover, the Mafia type governments are perfect recipe for disasters. We saw it with the Czars and USSR. Whoever depended on them turned out to be a looser. This is the turn for the Iraninans and Syrians.

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## noksss

The-king said:


>

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## Mucahit

*Audio of the Turkish Air force warnings to the Russian aircraft.*

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## Nilgiri

Turkey better watch out


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## 帅的一匹

NOW THE FINAL ATTEMPT AIMED TO FORM AN ANTI- ISIL ALLIANCE HAD FAILED, CREDIT TO TURKEY.

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## azzo

It's useless to treat the symptoms without curing the disease. Assad and Mullah terrorists are the main reasons for ISIS' existence, they must be wiped off the map before firing a single bullet at ISIS terrorists.

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## haviZsultan

This war is going south. The America camp and Russia camp may clash...


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## BDforever

azzo said:


> It's useless to treat the symptoms without curing the disease. Assad and Mullah terrorists are the main reasons for ISIS' existence, they must be wiped off the map before firing a single bullet at ISIS terrorists.


after Assad defeated, deal should be made between ISIS and Arab-West coalition right ?


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Nilgiri said:


> Turkey better watch out


We have already seen this movie in Afghanistan. The last time Russia attacked TurkeyBolshevik revolution occurred. Another Mafia is ruling Russia now.

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## brahmastra

it seems turks got offended by Russian bombing on ISIS oil tankers and refineries.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BDforever said:


> after Assad defeated, deal should be made between ISIS and Arab-West coalition right ?


Rise and fall are in our DNA. The Ottoman Empire fell after WW1, now it's time to rise again. BD folks should know it very well for Bengal was conquered by 17 (yes, only seventeen) horsemen led by a Turk. Kutubuddin Aybek, a Turk, set 7 centuries of Turkic rule of Hindistan. This is how Allah u Azimusshan has programmed us..

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## Nilgiri

HAKIKAT said:


> The Ottoman Empire fell after WW1, now it's time to rise again.



You are going to be in for a very rude, somber shock. Just watch the next few weeks and months as Russia selectively and comprehensively eradicates Turkmen forces in Syria.

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## TopCat

HAKIKAT said:


> Rise and fall are in our DNA. The Ottoman Empire fell after WW1, now it's time to rise again. BD folks should know it very well for Bengal was conquered by 17 (yes, only seventeen) horsemen led by a Turk. Kutubuddin Aybek, a Turk, set 7 centuries of Turkic rule of Hindistan. This is how Allah u Azimusshan has programmed us..



Unfortunately those brave men never returned to Turkey and their descendant still roam in Hindustan. Do you want us to send them back to you in the form of ISIS or Al-Nusra with a suicide belt..

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## Sipahi

Between May 1986 and November 1988, PAF F-16s have shot down at least eight intruders from Afghanistan. The first three of these (one Su-22, one probable Su-22, and one An-26) were shot down by two pilots from No. 9 Squadron. Pilots of No. 14 Squadron destroyed the remaining five intruders (two Su-22s, two MiG-23s, and one Su-25).

I don't think Russia is going to invade Turkey for that !!!!


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Nilgiri said:


> You are going to be in for a very rude, somber shock. Just watch the next few weeks and months as Russia selectively and comprehensively eradicates Turkmen forces in Syria.


As far as I know Russian warplanes are called flying coffins or weadow makers in India so much so that you have fighter to pilot ratio of 0.8. Your defense analysts are also very critical of Russian equipment. Men fight with their faith not equipment. World history is full of such examples. You may call it Karma..



iajdani said:


> Unfortunately those brave men never returned to Turkey and their descendant still roam in Hindustan. Do you want us to send them back to you in the form of ISIS or Al-Nusra with a suicide belt..


You never built any empire. You won't understand this. It's not a matter of ridicule.

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## BDforever

HAKIKAT said:


> Rise and fall are in our DNA. The Ottoman Empire fell after WW1, now it's time to rise again. BD folks should know it very well for Bengal was conquered by 17 (yes, only seventeen) horsemen led by a Turk. Kutubuddin Aybek, a Turk, set 7 centuries of Turkic rule of Hindistan. This is how Allah u Azimusshan has programmed us..


oye careful about giving history lesson. The man who conquered Bengal was *Ikhtiyar ad-Din Muhammad bin Bakhtiyar Khilji. *and for your more info.
1. half of Bengal was actually jungle.
2. Almost all Bengal peoples were agricultural and business people, not warmongers like Turks that time

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## Nilgiri

HAKIKAT said:


> As far as I know Russian warplanes are called flying coffins or weadow makers in India so much so that you have fighter to pilot ratio of 0.8.



One particular model yes, as it was nearing the end of its service life after having logged more hours per plane than it should have.

Nothing to do with it being Russian....since plenty of other Russian a/c today are operating very well within the doctrine of the IAF (check up on Su-30 MKI)



HAKIKAT said:


> Your defense analysts are also very critical of Russian equipment.



Various analysts are critical of all equipment from whichever country. There are pros and cons for every decision. The Indian-Russian defence ties are still extremely strong today.



HAKIKAT said:


> Men fight with their faith not equipment.



Lets see if that faith comes in handy for the rag tag Turkmens in the next few weeks.



HAKIKAT said:


> World history is full of such examples. You may call it Karma..



The Ottoman empire will never return....and Turkey will be comprehensively defeated and destroyed if it attempts it.

Stay secular and stay in Anatolia....and play your games with the Kurds and hate story with the Greeks and Armenians. Beyond that you have no geopolitical leverage....definitely none to take on Russia 1 on 1....much less re-conquer the former Ottoman lands.

Turkey if its smart, will use what Russia does in Syria over the coming months as a learning experience as to what strategy entails....and why tactical skirmishes may sometimes be set up with that strategy in mind. If Turkey refuses to learn that and decides to escalate or respond immaturely, Turkey is going to be facing a lot of trouble in short order.

You are not getting Karma on anyone because of the Ottoman breakup....not without destroying Turkey itself. Let bygones be bygones, be content with what you have, play your cards wisely... and look to the future rationally and pragmatically....rather than drawing blindly on faith.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

mshahid said:


> Between May 1986 and November 1988, PAF F-16s have shot down at least eight intruders from Afghanistan. The first three of these (one Su-22, one probable Su-22, and one An-26) were shot down by two pilots from No. 9 Squadron. Pilots of No. 14 Squadron destroyed the remaining five intruders (two Su-22s, two MiG-23s, and one Su-25).
> 
> I don't think Russia is going to invade Turkey for that !!!!


The last time they invaded Bolshevik Revolution ocurred.

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## TopCat

HAKIKAT said:


> You never built any empire. You won't understand this. It's not a matter of ridicule.



Indian Empire itself was 1/3 of the entire World of that time.. Did we need any more? Now stop flattering yourself only because we admire Muslim armies of those days which actually is of ours..

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Nilgiri said:


> One particular model yes, as it was nearing the end of its service life after having logged more hours per plane than it should have.
> 
> Nothing to do with it being Russian....since plenty of other Russian a/c today are operating very well within the doctrine of the IAF (check up on Su-30 MKI)
> 
> 
> 
> Various analysts are critical of all equipment from whichever country. There are pros and cons for every decision. The Indian-Russian defence ties are still extremely strong today.
> 
> 
> 
> Lets see if that faith comes in handy for the rag tag Turkmens in the next few weeks.
> 
> 
> 
> The Ottoman empire will never return....and Turkey will be comprehensively defeated and destroyed if it attempts it.
> 
> Stay secular and stay in Anatolia....and play your games with the Kurds and hate story with the Greeks and Armenians. Beyond that you have no geopolitical leverage....definitely none to take on Russia 1 on 1....much less re-conquer the former Ottoman lands.
> 
> Turkey if its smart, will use what Russia does in Syria over the coming months as a learning experience as to what strategy entails....and why tactical skirmishes may sometimes be set up with that strategy in mind. If Turkey refuses to learn that and decides to escalate or respond immaturely, Turkey is going to be facing a lot of trouble in short order.
> 
> You are not getting Karma on anyone because of the Ottoman breakup....not without destroying Turkey itself. Let bygones be bygones, be content with what you have, play your cards wisely... and look to the future rationally and pragmatically....rather than drawing blindly on faith.


Let's wait and see. A man of faith destroyed 5 of your aircrafts in 40 seconds, and a rag tag faith based force of "dudes in bedsheets" defeated USSR. So, don't say faith doesn't work. It works but most of the people don't want to understand it.

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> What a serious Institute , *two containers* and a good website. Look in Google Street View !


It not matters to exepress their views on the news that must have a million dollar state & a stalitle like CNN to produce lies for the govt mistakes ?
With internet getting bigger & stronger many news web sites just need a container a normal site studio to be on air , & up load it on youtuebe ?
Just like stupid ISIS terrorists using it ?

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## Nilgiri

HAKIKAT said:


> A man of faith destroyed 5 of your aircrafts in 40 seconds,



And that same man's country got broken up in the end....with 90,000 of his fellow faithful surrendering in less than 2 weeks of war.

Faith works both ways you see. Both sides have it. The one that prevails is the one that is better prepared, led, managed and equipped....and able to harness ground realities better.

Thats why Ottoman empire will never exist again.....something true of empires in general. Modern day world is too different now.


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## cirr

cnleio said:


> Im sure China would provide funds support to Russia, but only when fire into Russian lands China will send military force with Russia together. Don't forget we have SCO.



China


victor07 said:


> It is already exactly known that Russian Su-24 bomber was shot down over the territory of Syria by a Turkish fighter. Turkish fighter at that time was also over the territory of Syria. The crew of the Su-24 did not expect the attack and was not warned. One of the pilots was killed after ejection in the air from the ground by mujahideen. The second pilot was rescued, with the support of the Syrian army.
> Turks after the attack behaved like cowardly jackals. Instead of a direct dialogue with Russia, rushed to hide behind the NATO. Thus Turkey from supporting terrorists in Syria, without declaring war, moved to direct combat provocations against Russia on the side of the terrorists.
> Current Russian military action against Turkey:
> All contacts with Turkey on military lines will be discontinued.
> All targets that represent a potential danger for the Russian forces over Syria will be downed. The corresponding order was given cruiser Moskva. В Генштабе рассказали об ответных мерах на сбитый Турцией Су-24
> Economic measures are being addressed.
> I think it would be right to arm Kurds with modern air defense weapons.
> Turkey is certainly more to lose from this provocation, than gain. And the benefits from this provocation are only to United States.
> Video from the side of Syrian Army of downed aircraft and rescue mission.



I say BOMB the crap out of all the terrorists groups that Turkey support covertly and covetly。

Arm all the groups，especially the Kurds，that Turkey brutely oppresses。

China should write a blank cheque for Russia。

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## batmannow

azzo said:


> It's useless to treat the symptoms without curing the disease. Assad and Mullah terrorists are the main reasons for ISIS' existence, they must be wiped off the map before firing a single bullet at ISIS terrorists.


Wow , sure cause its Assad forces which went to bomb & on a terrorist attacks in Paris or all over the world ?
Is ISIS is the name of asaad govt ?
Or you are a sympathetic to ISIS ?

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BDforever said:


> oye careful about giving history lesson. The man who conquered Bengal was *Ikhtiyar ad-Din Muhammad bin Bakhtiyar Khilji. *and for your more info.
> 
> 1. half of Bengal was actually jungle.
> 2. Almost all Bengal peoples were agricultural and business people, not warmongers like Turks that time


He was a Turk general in the Army of Kutubuddin Aybek. Please do Google search. We are the Empire builders. It's as per the Divine Plan. It's not in our hands. Good to be agricultural and business people, but how is it like falling to 200 British + 2800 native Indian soldiers under the command of a drunk clerk of the East India Company while 70 thousand forces stood still? Not a shred of honor? According to your historians, if everybody picked up a stone, the British would have been long gone!! This is beyond me. Maybe we Turks are too naive!! We have lost many wars but not in this fashion!!


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## tugberksamur

Why someone does not understand Turkish Air Force started to warn Russian plane from 30 miles until entering the border? 17 seconds do not matter. They are warning you "Do not enter my borders" and you keep entering.


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## TopCat

HAKIKAT said:


> He was a Turk general in the Army of Kutubuddin Aybek. Please do Google search. We are the Empire builders. It's as per the Divine Plan. It's not in our hands. Good to be agricultural and business people, but how is it like falling to 200 British + 2800 native Indian soldiers under the command of a drunk clerk of the East India Company while 70 thousand forces stood still? Not a shred of honor? According to your historians,* if everybody picked up a stone, the British would have been long gone!! *This is beyond me. Maybe we Turks are too naive!! We have lost many wars but not in this fashion!!



Ya right!!! 
There were great battle faught against them even after the first set back and many Turkik and Afhgan and Persian soldiers participated along with locals and we got defeated left and right.. It was the era of Europe's renaissance along with industrial revolution. Time was not right for anybody.
India itself was a great empire starting from Indonesia to Afghanistan in various span of time. You are just not aware of the history.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Nilgiri said:


> And that same man's country got broken up in the end....with 90,000 of his fellow faithful surrendering in less than 2 weeks of war.
> 
> Faith works both ways you see. Both sides have it. The one that prevails is the one that is better prepared, led, managed and equipped....and able to harness ground realities better.
> 
> Thats why Ottoman empire will never exist again.....something true of empires in general. Modern day world is too different now.


History repeats itself in a sinusoidal fashion. Our turn will come no matter what level of opposition is put forth. As for Russia, Bolshevik Revolution ocurred last time it poked us. Let's see what stored in the fate this time.


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## BDforever

HAKIKAT said:


> He was a Turk general in the Army of Kutubuddin Aybek. Please do Google search. We are the Empire builders. It's as per the Divine Plan. It's not in our hands. Good to be agricultural and business people, but how is it like falling to 200 British + 2800 native Indian soldiers under the command of a drunk clerk of the East India Company while 70 thousand forces stood still? Not a shred of honor? According to your historians, if everybody picked up a stone, the British would have been long gone!! This is beyond me. Maybe we Turks are too naive!! We have lost many wars but not in this fashion!!


It is called warmongers, always liked killing and slathering, that is why when turks conquered area and nothing to do then turned against each other to establish own agenda with blood of own people.

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## I S I

Ind4Ever said:


> How Pakistan is still in one piece please explain


I'm talking about during & after we faced Soviet Union & not only pissed them off but also humiliated them. Yes, they revenged by killing Zia Ul Haq in plane crash but thats about it.


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## azzo

batmannow said:


> Wow , sure cause its Assad forces which went to bomb & on a terrorist attacks in Paris or all over the world ?
> Is ISIS is the name of asaad govt ?
> Or you are a sympathetic to ISIS ?


Assad is a dictator who mercilessly bombed his own people, which made them desperate, especially impressionable young men who were taken advantage of to join questionable organizations like ISIS. 

And no I'm not a sympathizer, also Lolthailand? ladyboy much?


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## PatriotLover

I think China should not support Russia in this case. Turkey was defending air space. China would do the same too. Plus Turkey is our ally. We will defend Turkey.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

iajdani said:


> Ya right!!!
> There were great battle faught against them even after the first set back and many Turkik and Afhgan and Persian soldiers participated along with locals and we got defeated left and right.. It was the era of Europe's renaissance along with industrial revolution. Time was not right for anybody.
> India itself was a great empire starting from Indonesia to Afghanistan in various span of time. You are just not aware of the history.


Were Indians ever united against the British like the Afghans? British repeatedly attacked them but they were repealed by home made weapons and stones. When Tipu Sultan was batterred did other folks went to his rescue? Indians were paid soldiers in the British Army. When Sepoy Mutiny started, did Sikhs and Gurkhas joined the independence movement? As far as I know only 14 thousand (4K military + 10k civil) officers ruled over 100s of millions in India for over hundred years. How is it possible?

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## batmannow

[


azzo said:


> Assad is a dictator who mercilessly bombed his own people, which made them desperate, especially impressionable young men who were taken advantage of to join questionable organizations like ISIS.
> 
> And no I'm not a sympathizer, also Lolthailand? ladyboy much?


Dictator is not attacking Paris , dictator isn't invading any country ?
Its the filth ISIS created by turkey ,ksa ,Israel USA +EU is the one invading countries after countries & going to overthrow Assad who is 100 % more modern & human then the rest of Arab dictators like KSA ?
WHY TURKEY NOT TELL KSA TO STOP ITS DICTATORSHIP ?

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## TopCat

HAKIKAT said:


> Were Indians ever united against the British like the Afghans? British repeatedly attacked them but they were repealed by home made weapons and stones. When Tipu Sultan was batterred did other folks went to his rescue? Indians were paid soldiers in the British Army. When Sepoy Mutiny started, did Sikhs and Gurkhas joined the independence movement? As far as I know only 14 thousand (4K military + 10k civil) officers ruled over 100s of millions in India for over hundred years. How is it possible?



I told you India itself was an empire which has many nation and faction. Not everybody was united all the time like any other empire. Thats how an empire crumble.
And how british ruled?? Well, how USA rule over Arabian peninsula? Make a kingdom and give it to a king and collect the tributary. In return give protection to the kings. British had a whole bunch of kings all over India who had their small army. They directly administer only the important economic hubs of India.


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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> I think China should not support Russia in this case. Turkey was defending air space. China would do the same too. Plus Turkey is our ally. We will defend Turkey.


Turkey is defending ISIS terrorists & their supply routes ?

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## I S I

So much Warmongering in one thread.


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## BDforever

HAKIKAT said:


> Were Indians ever united against the British like the Afghans? British repeatedly attacked them but they were repealed by home made weapons and stones. When Tipu Sultan was batterred did other folks went to his rescue? Indians were paid soldiers in the British Army. When Sepoy Mutiny started, did Sikhs and Gurkhas joined the independence movement? As far as I know only 14 thousand (4K military + 10k civil) officers ruled over 100s of millions in India for over hundred years. How is it possible?


1. Indian continent was ruled by Multiple Kings in different area, Keep in mind Indian continent has a huge number of different ethnic people, even in small Country like Bangladesh, there are more than Ten local languages. 
2. Britain conquered Indian sub continent with divide and rule policy, means made alliance with one ethnic group to conqure other ethnic group.
3. And no, there were not 100s of million Indian subcontinent people, The population you see is post ww2 era. learn fact


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## GURU DUTT

now the time has come and looks like turkey needlessly provoked the russian bear ..... bad times ahead for turkey-ISIS

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## kollang

tugberksamur said:


> Why someone does not understand Turkish Air Force started to warn Russian plane from 30 miles until entering the border? 17 seconds do not matter. They are warning you "Do not enter my borders" and you keep entering.


What do you mean? There are lots of targets within 30 miles of Turkish borders and Russians dont cease to bomb them at all.

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## Nilgiri

iajdani said:


> I told you India itself was an empire which has many nation and faction. Not everybody was united all the time like any other empire. Thats how an empire crumble.
> And how british ruled?? Well, how USA rule over Arabian peninsula? Make a kingdom and give it to a king and collect the tributary. In return give protection to the kings. British had a whole bunch of kings all over India who had their small army. They directly administer only the important economic hubs of India.





BDforever said:


> 1. Indian continent was ruled by Multiple Kings in different area, Keep in mind Indian continent has a huge number of different ethnic people, even in small Country like Bangladesh, there are more than Ten local languages.
> 2. Britain conquered Indian sub continent with divide and rule policy, means made alliance with one ethnic group to conqure other ethnic group.
> 3. And no, there were not 100s of million Indian subcontinent people, The population you see is post ww2 era. learn fact



You guys are wasting time with this individual. He has it in his head that Turks are some big warrior elite of the world, that will reclaim the Ottoman empire "very soon".

Just sit back and watch the next few weeks and months and relish how humiliated/frustrated he is going to be.

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## Ind4Ever

I S I said:


> I'm talking about during & after we faced Soviet Union & not only pissed them off but also humiliated them. Yes, they revenged by killing Zia Ul Haq in plane crash but thats about it.


You did nothing than sending weapons from US and training terrorists. Afghanistan was defended by high patriotic Afghans. Are you saying if you have declared war on Russia you still be in one piece?


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BDforever said:


> It is called warmongers, always liked killing and slathering, that is why when turks conquered area and nothing to do then turned against each other to establish own agenda with blood of own people.


7 centuries of rule in Hindistan with its golden periods - how could they do it? 7 centuries of rule in Eurasia and ME saved the Muslims and Jews from the Crusadrs, orthodox from Catholics - do you think every nation can do it? We were not like European colonists, we tried our best to provide security to the local population and get assimilated. Our fighting skills and motivations did the job. If you don't have it unfortunately you get enslaved. Compare with the current situation and its visible like daylight.


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## BDforever

HAKIKAT said:


> 7 centuries of rule in Hindistan with its golden periods - how could they do it? 7 centuries of rule in Eurasia and ME saved the Muslims and Jews from the Crusadrs, orthodox from Catholics - do you think every nation can do it? We were not like European colonists, we tried our best to provide security to the local population and get assimilated. Our fighting skills and motivations did the job. If you don't have it unfortunately you get enslaved. Compare with the current situation and its visible like daylight.


 what if i tell you that the people are referring to as great turks are basically descendant of mongolians including your ottoman empire

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## Paksanity

I find it really funny that Indian members are trying to compare themselves with Turks. An unbiased review of history shows how good Turks are in the battlefield. There was a reason Turks held prestigious military positions in Mughal and other Muslim empires. Turk contingent was the most hard hitting and disciplined part of Muslim rulers of India. I happened to read a candid article by an Indian author who tried to find out why indigenous forces of Marathas lost battles against Mughals again and again despite enjoying many times more soldiers. Recent rhetoric aside, he comes to the conclusion of discipline of Turk soldiers and their enviable ability to execute complex military maneuvers in the heat of battle. Rajput soldiers would take high amount of drugs and opium before battle to make them feel invincible and carry on fighting with injuries. But it also made them confused, undisciplined and unable to carry out commands of their generals although a ferocious individual fighters. On the other hand, Turks laid emphasis on discipline and efficient training. Turk soldiers were strictly kept away from alcohol and drugs prior to battle and engaged in series of training to understand battle signaling through drum beats and flags. On the battlefield Turks were able to hold their formations, move according to changing battlefield situation and change their posturing quickly should the general see an opportunity. Time and again, small Turkish contingents routed Indian crowds of intoxicated soldiers. I really find it funny that someone can poke fun at them like that. I haven't even touched the ability of Turk architects and engineers who designed and built grand buildings.

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## The Eagle

GURU DUTT said:


> now the time has come and looks like turkey needlessly provoked the russian bear ..... bad times ahead for turkey-ISIS





Nilgiri said:


> You guys are wasting time with this individual. He has it in his head that Turks are some big warrior elite of the world, that will reclaim the Ottoman empire "very soon".
> 
> Just sit back and watch the next few weeks and months and relish how humiliated/frustrated he is going to be.


Nothing much to say but never forget that today u dance on some1 else floor tomorrow u have to dance even forcibly either u can say it Karma. I never being fortunately seen any Indian show maturity or being little up from the low level thinking. U r never relevant to any else business but still u rant.


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Nilgiri said:


> You guys are wasting time with this individual. He has it in his head that Turks are some big warrior elite of the world, that will reclaim the Ottoman empire "very soon".
> 
> Just sit back and watch the next few weeks and months and relish how humiliated/frustrated he is going to be.


We are Muslims and we have the patience of thousand years. Time and space aren't important to us. It's the sublimity of the objective. Winning and losing are distant secondaries to us. Primary objective is to gain the pleasure of our LORD through faith and good work. We know that nobody can undo the Divine Plan.

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## Mirzah

Go Turkey, shoot the trespassers down 
nobody can violate sovereign air space of Turkey 
God bless Turks and Turkmens

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## Serpentine

*Breaking*: Second Russian pilot was found safe, transferred to Russian base in Latakia. Reportedly retrieved by SAA commando team.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BDforever said:


> what if i tell you that the people are referring to as great turks are basically descendant of mongolians including your ottoman empire


Turks and Mongols are originally 2 different races. Mongols ravaged the Muslim lands. Later some of them converted to Islam and mixed with Turks.

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## F117

Missing Russian jet pilot 'picked up by Syrian army' - BBC News

Syrian Army rescue the missing pilot. Good thing Turks or their proxies didn't get to him first.

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## tugberksamur

kollang said:


> What do you mean? There are lots of targets within 30 miles of Turkish borders and Russians dont cease to bomb them at all.



No there are not.Can you explain an air target except NATO around 30 miles? Bombing does not matter.We explained "Engagement Rules" before. If you cross the border you will be shot down. They knew it but they thought they would do whatever they want.


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## Akasa

For all Chinese members who are hell-bent on "nuking" Turkey: please keep in mind that what Turkey did is not so different from what China had almost done when US jets violated Beijing's ADIZ in the East China Sea.

Please don't spout the very double stands that you claim to hate.

That is all.

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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> For all Chinese members who are hell bent on "nuking" Turkey: please keep in mind that what Turkey did is not so different from what China had almost done when US jets violated Beijing's ADIZ in the East China Sea.
> 
> Please don't spout the very double stands that you claim to hate.
> 
> That is all.


No aircraft shot down in east China sea. But in this scenario. Some foolish idiot pull the trigger and dig its own grave.

When China tell Abe that even firing tracer rounds is an act of war. Abe drop any idea of firing.

But mad Erdogan is digging grave for all Turkish.

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## I S I

Ind4Ever said:


> You did nothing than sending weapons from US and training terrorists. Afghanistan was defended by high patriotic Afghans. Are you saying if you have declared war on Russia you still be in one piece?


out of countless humiliations soviet union faced by Pakistan. This is one of them.

4 August 1988 – An Su-25 strike jet was shot down by a Pakistani F-16, pilot Alexander Rutskoy safely ejects.
List of Soviet aircraft losses during the Soviet–Afghan War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


LOL now go & cry me a ganga.


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## Akasa

Beast said:


> No aircraft shot down in east China sea. But in this scenario. Some foolish idiot pull the trigger and dig its own grave.



No, but the circumstances under which the two incidents precipitated are similar. Unfortunately, this time, misunderstanding prevailed.


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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> No, but the circumstances under which the two incidents precipitated are similar. Unfortunately, this time, misunderstanding prevailed.


It is not similar. Shooting down another country airplane is an act of war unless the fighter flies 50km into other territories and drop bomb. Turkish aggression in shooting down Russia airplane so near its border is foolish.

Even Abe or even Obama are not dumb enough like Erdogan.

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## Ice Cube

Russia to deploy S 400


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669441758846164992

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## Akasa

Beast said:


> It is not similar. Shooting down another country airplane is an act of war unless the fighter flies 50km into other territories and drop bomb. Turkish aggression in shooting down Russia airplane so near its border is foolish.
> 
> Even Abe or even Obama are not dumb enough like Erdogan.



I don't think you get this. If a nation's jet crosses into another's territory , then the defending nation has a legal right to act via force. Whether the response is "aggressive" or not does not shift such parameters.


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## Immanuel

Kamil_baku said:


> Dude, calling Nato is called politics... They dont control a convenience store, they basically control a country and would use its abilities to show internal kurdish population that Turkey is not next to ISIS and basically all around world news. We learned it from westerners, we play with the rules of game...
> We got the balls to down Russian plane, now lets see if they have those to attack back. Probably, everybody knows here the answer...



Well you bitches over there are the reason ISIS is well entrenched, firing at an air to ground bomber show no balls actually, how about trying to take a shot at the Su-27s flying next time. Wait till the S-400 comes online in Syria, your aircraft can't enter Syrian airspace no more  You bitches just locked yourself out. We all know your F-16 were trying saving the Turkmen in Syria. As for game, the KGB wrote the book, I see more 'terror attacks' in Turkey. Lots of goodies heading towards PKK. Turkey is about to be turned into the most unstable partner of NATO.

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## PatriotLover

Beast said:


> It is not similar. Shooting down another country airplane is an act of war unless the fighter flies 50km into other territories and drop bomb. Turkish aggression in shooting down Russia airplane so near its border is foolish.
> 
> Even Abe or even Obama are not dumb enough like Erdogan.



This is a very different senario. Sadly China will not have our support in this case. People of Pakistan stands with Turkey. If needed even militarily.


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## -SINAN-

SinoSoldier said:


> For all Chinese members who are hell-bent on "nuking" Turkey: please keep in mind that what Turkey did is not so different from what China had almost done when US jets violated Beijing's ADIZ in the East China Sea.
> 
> Please don't spout the very double stands that you claim to hate.
> 
> That is all.



Mate, we told this for hundred times...brief incursions can occur in these flights where aircraft flying near the speed of sound. 

That was the same case when Syria downed our jet in 2012.
June 2012 interception of Turkish aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After that, we changed our rules of engagement in *Syrian Border. ** Since 2012 we are downing every jet that tresspasses into airrspace.

Turkey downs Syrian jet near border 'for airspace violation' — RT News*
Turkey downs Syrian helicopter, claims it violated airspace — RT News

Last month Russian Jets twice violated Turkish airspace.
Nato condemns Russia over violations of Turkey's airspace | World news | The Guardian

Russian fighters, Syrian fighters, Syrian/Russian defense systems locked numerous times on Turkish jets(while our jets were flying inside of the Turkish airspace).
Syrian Jets, SAMs Lock onto Turkish F-16s: Report | Defense Tech
Russia in Syria: Russian radar locks on to Turkish fighter jets as Moscow steps up air strikes against opposition targets | Middle East | News | The Independent

I want Chinese posters to think. What would you do if US harasses you over and over again despite your protests and warnings ? Would you just accept that your sovereignty being violated every now and then ? I don't think so.

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## Serpentine

To cool things down a bit:

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## haman10

PatriotLover said:


> I think China should not support Russia in this case. Turkey was defending air space. China would do the same too. Plus Turkey is our ally. We will defend Turkey.


Well , officials in Beijing just shyte their pants .

I would think twice before saying things like that mate . Don't forget what will happen to Pakistan without china

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## cirr

Russia should deploy a few S-400 batteries and be prepared to shoot down any Turkish jets that dare come within airspace above the Syrian-Turkish borders。

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## nickname

Now its Russian time to take revenge for brave son of mother Russia.

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## PatriotLover

haman10 said:


> Well , officials in Beijing just shyte their pants .
> 
> I would think twice before saying things like that mate . Don't forget what will happen to Pakistan without china



Our relationship with China is same, no change. I just want to inform our Chinese brothers that in this case, we support Turkey, militarily if needed against Russia. Just for this case we cannot support Chinese demands.

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## Madali

Why doesn't Turkey have the balls to come out and say, "We support ISIS and no one has the right to bomb them?" instead of always being sneaky about it?

They should learn a thing or two from Iran. When we support Hezbollah, we are direct and honest about it, and we don't care if the west calls them a terrorist group.

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## GURU DUTT

nickname said:


> Now its Russian time to take revenge for brave son of mother Russia.


looks more like USA, Russia, France , England once again coming together after WW2 to kill the common enemy

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## tugberksamur

cirr said:


> Russia should deploy a few S-400 batteries and be prepared to shoot down any Turkish jets that dare come within airspace above the Syrian-Turkish borders。


Let's watch how HARM hit them


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## GURU DUTT

Madali said:


> *Why doesn't Turkey have the balls to come out and say, "We support ISIS and no one has the right to bomb them?" instead of always being sneaky about it*?
> 
> They should learn a thing or two from Iran. When we support Hezbollah, we are direct and honest about it, and we don't care if the west calls them a terrorist group.


every body is not Iran


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## haman10

T-123456 said:


> *It is our business* when 2 million flee to our country,its none of your business.


You made it your business when you started supporting terrorists and ISIS in Syria. 
So damn straight, this all mess is indeed your business. 

A repulsive and dirty one too

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## jammersat

Although iran doesn't call them Hezbollah anymore , for reasons you better know , instead together with Hamas they call them the "resistance"


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## Perpendicular

RUS to deploy S-400 AD system at Hmeimim (Syria) a/base


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## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> I don't think you get this. If a nation's jet crosses into another's territory , then the defending nation has a legal right to act via force. Whether the response is "aggressive" or not does not shift such parameters.



What makes you so sure that the Russian plane crossed into Turkish airpace?

By the words of the Turks? 

Does it mean that all the Turkish jets that have made Syrian airpace its own backyard deserve shotdown by the Syrians or the Russians who are in the process of stationing batteries of S-400 in Syria?

I guess the US uprooted their Patriot missiles delpoyed in Turkey for a good reason.

I also see that China CANCELLED the HQ missile deal with Turkey for a very good and valid reason.

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## TopCat

cirr said:


> What makes you so sure that the Russian plane crossed into Turkish airpace?
> 
> By the words of the Turks?
> 
> Does it mean that all the Turkish jets that have made Syrian airpace its own backyard deserve shotdown by the Syrians or the Russians who are in the process of stationing batteries of S-400 in Syria?
> 
> *I guess the US uprooted their Patriot missiles delpoyed in Turkey for a good reason.*
> 
> I also see that China CANCELLED the HQ missile deal with Turkey for a very good and valid reason.



Ya I wondered why NATO immediately withdrew patriot as soon as Russians joined the fray.

Or is it NATO which does not want Russia to have an opportunity to test its EW system and Iskander missile against it?


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## 帅的一匹

PatriotLover said:


> Our relationship with China is same, no change. I just want to inform our Chinese brothers that in this case, we support Turkey, militarily if needed against Russia. Just for this case we cannot support Chinese demands.


Pakistan government won't field itself against Russia for Turkey who is now friendly to PAkistan, it provide RD93 engine to JF17. But if you will, you can fight for turkey as an individual.

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## batmannow

SinoSoldier said:


> For all Chinese members who are hell-bent on "nuking" Turkey: please keep in mind that what Turkey did is not so different from what China had almost done when US jets violated Beijing's ADIZ in the East China Sea.
> 
> Please don't spout the very double stands that you claim to hate.
> 
> That is all.


China wasn't saving any supply routes of terrorists like ISIS ?
Turkey is !

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## 500

Radar diagram released by Turkey:







"Radar" diagram released by Russia:






Some kid drew with red marker on map  Not also sharp turn in the end. They needed it to explain fall trajectory but it does not make any sense.

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## BDforever

HAKIKAT said:


> Turks and Mongols are originally 2 different races. Mongols ravaged the Muslim lands. Later some of them converted to Islam and mixed with Turks.


probably i know your history than you do LOL. The first Sultan's father of ottoman empire was from mongolia. go check yourself

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## haman10



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## TopCat

500 said:


> Radar diagram released by Turkey:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Radar" diagram released by Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some kid drew with red marker on map  Not also sharp turn in the end. They needed it to explain fall trajectory but it does not make any sense.



Both diagram is fake.. Just see the American released video where both aircraft entered each others airspace. F-16 shoot from within Syrian airspace.


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## 帅的一匹

PatriotLover said:


> This is a very different senario. Sadly China will not have our support in this case. People of Pakistan stands with Turkey. If needed even militarily.


No matter right or wrong you stand with Turkey? It makes me feel weird.

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## cirr



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## batmannow

haman10 said:


> Well , officials in Beijing just shyte their pants .
> 
> I would think twice before saying things like that mate . Don't forget what will happen to Pakistan without china


Pakistan will not do anything , except few statements cause its not in any position to drag itself into , stupid proxy battle grounds .
No it won't , just few months back when KSA was hell bent on Pakistan to send it troops against yeman , Pakistan bravely said no , we don't go at war against any Muslim state ?
Here case is the same , sirya +RUSSIA+IRAN vs ISIS+TURKEY+KSA +ISRAEL +USA +EU ?
NO Pakistan has its own full plate of problems , take care yourself bro ?lolzz

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## Madali

I doubt Russia will do much here. Turkey risked the event to come out as the hero to all the Islamists, and i think their plan will work in the short term, because I don't see how Russia can escalate it. I don't think they will even be willing to cut the gas to Turkey.

However, Russia is the one that has been learning hard lessons recently. If we ignore the fanboys here, reality is more complex. Russia needs to realize that it needs to have better allies. Since the breakup of USSR, it thought it would be accepted by Europe & USA, therefore, it never really made much effort to be considered as a reliable ally to the Asians.

But since the last decade, it seems to realize that Europe & USA don't consider them as part of their club, and without allies, Russia will remain at risk. It needs to have stronger alliances with China, with Syria, with Iran, with Pakistan, to be able to create an Asian alliance. At the moment, no Asian country will be willing to put itself at risk to defend Russia's right.

Hopefully, Putin will consider this for the future of the country, but we don't see much hope yet. Putin did nothing to help their ally in Libya, and they came to Syria's support 4 years too late, and they have been backstabbing Iran regarding nuclear files constantly. It has never also stood strong with China to better support North Korea.

Let's see if this incident will teach the Russians a lesson to the great importance of alliances.

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> Russia should deploy a few S-400 batteries and be prepared to shoot down any Turkish jets that dare come within airspace above the Syrian-Turkish borders。


Those F16 are sitting ducks if they enter Syria air space.

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## azzo

haman10 said:


> View attachment 274647


lol delusions.

In the real world, Turkey shoot down Russian jets, while Russia just stand there and watch.

You keep yourself amused with crap like this, Russia is dirt poor to engage in a meaningful conflict with a anyone significant.

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## batmannow

wanglaokan said:


> No matter right or wrong you stand with Turkey? It makes me feel weird.


He is just a emotional kid , nothing like that in our military think tanks , so never mind let them find their heaven , on PDF ?lolzz

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## 帅的一匹

batmannow said:


> Pakistan will not do anything , except few statements cause its not in any position to drag itself into , stupid proxy battle grounds .
> No it won't , just few months back when KSA was hell bent on Pakistan to send it troops against yeman , Pakistan bravely said no , we don't go at war against any Muslim state ?
> Here case is the same , sirya +RUSSIA+IRAN vs ISIS+TURKEY+KSA +ISRAEL +USA +EU ?
> NO Pakistan has its own full plate of problems , take care yourself bro ?lolzz


Pakistan won't drag itself into trouble while India is in the doorway.

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## Azeri440

iajdani said:


> Both diagram is fake.. Just see the American released video where both aircraft entered each others airspace. F-16 shoot from within Syrian airspace.



can you post the "video"

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## batmannow

azzo said:


> lol delusions.
> 
> In the real world, Turkey shoot down Russian jets, while Russia just stand there and watch.
> 
> You keep yourself amused with crap like this, Russia is dirt poor to engage in a meaningful conflict with a anyone significant.


Time will tell you fast , how half to Turkey been made turkeys by Russia ?
By downing a jet , turkey hadn't won any world war 3 , it has just started it , so wait. For putins master stroke , its coming & you will feel it.

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## 帅的一匹

batmannow said:


> He is just a emotional kid , nothing like that in our military think tanks , so never mind let them find their heaven , on PDF ?lolzz


its non of Chinese or Pakistan problem, turkey and Russia will solve this problem by their own. Always thanks the anti terrorists support our Pakistan brother provide. I don't like the talking of nuking Turkey by Russia,it's ridiculous.

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## batmannow

wanglaokan said:


> Pakistan won't drag itself into trouble while India is in the doorway.


Not only that , we have bitter experiences of that proxy war situations in Afghanistan ?
We are with free world , with China & with the innocnets killed by ISIS ?
For us RUSSIA is doing a fine job by bombing these stupid terrorists , & anyone saving ISIS ,be it Turkey , be USA , or anyone else we are against all of them .

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## Madali

However, I do think Russia should send a missile into a Turkey village near the border, then claim it was a mistake, and apologize. Turkey will also a learn a lesson there, by knowing that NATO won't suddenly get involved just because one missile went into Turkey lands. This way Russia would get its "revenge" and nothing would be escalated.

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## 帅的一匹

batmannow said:


> Not only that , we have bitter experiences of that proxy war situations in Afghanistan ?
> We are with free world , with China & with the innocnets killed by ISIS ?


We are always brother. China won't interfere if PAF extend help to Turkey. Actually you won't for sure. China don't have much problem with Tutkey except they provide shield for Uygher seperatism said.

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## haman10

azzo said:


> lol delusions.
> 
> In the real world, Turkey shoot down Russian jets, while Russia just stand there and watch.
> 
> You keep yourself amused with crap like this, Russia is dirt poor to engage in a meaningful conflict with a anyone significant.


Comes from a saudi jihadi ?

Trash talking the Russians huh ? Come back when you produced a screw without "foreign assistance " .

Russia can bend turkey over and Turkey can bend saudia over .

The fact that none of them do so doesn't mean they can't. 

Go play video games appropriate for your age now .

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## takeiteasy

Lattakian province

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## 帅的一匹

I don't like Chinese saying what Pakstan can do without China! Brothers don't say that. Actually Paksianis are the most sincere and whole hearted friend and brothers of China. We can't afford to loose.

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## tugberksamur

takeiteasy said:


> Lattakian province


So?


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## batmannow

Madali said:


> However, I do think Russia should send a missile into a Turkey village near the border, then claim it was a mistake, and apologize. Turkey will also a learn a lesson there, by knowing that NATO won't suddenly get involved just because one missile went into Turkey lands. This way Russia would get its "revenge" and nothing would be escalated.


My friend , Putins mind is a working super military computer , he will throw a compact punch , yo knockout turkeys little fighting spirit out of town soon .
But it won't let , its growing standing against terrorism fall down for stupid reasons ?
But I'm expecting some thing in this night .

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## azzo

batmannow said:


> Time will tell you fast , how half to Turkey been made turkeys by Russia ?
> By downing a jet , turkey hadn't won any world war 3 , it has just started it , so wait. For putins master stroke , its coming & you will feel it.


Dude I can't understand half of what you're saying, for God sake go learn some coherent English.


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## batmannow

wanglaokan said:


> We are always brother. China won't interfere if PAF extend help to Turkey. Actually you won't for sure. China don't have much problem with Tutkey except they provide shield for Uygher seperatism said.


Oh no not a chance , PAF is not into any equation & is not needed , turkeys needs to ask its NATO allies to bring the dam kebabs for them ?



azzo said:


> Dude I can't understand half of what you're saying, for God sake go learn some coherent English.


Hope fully u , won't reply me again ?
Let others understand it , turks are not understanding it , that they been used , & will recevive the punch from Russia soon .

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## azzo

haman10 said:


> Comes from a saudi jihadi ?
> 
> Trash talking the Russians huh ? *Come back when you produced a screw without "foreign assistance " *.
> 
> Russia can bend turkey over and Turkey can bend saudia over .
> 
> The fact that none of them do so doesn't mean they can't.
> 
> Go play video games appropriate for your age now .


And Saudi can bend Mullahstan AKA Iran over.

And please with the foreign assistant, all your toys are refurbished 1950's U.S.-great satan- jets.

Oh wait I forgot.

Your also made this.Truly the pride of the Shites.

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## farhan_9909

Madali said:


> I doubt Russia will do much here. Turkey risked the event to come out as the hero to all the Islamists, and i think their plan will work in the short term, because I don't see how Russia can escalate it. I don't think they will even be willing to cut the gas to Turkey.
> 
> However, Russia is the one that has been learning hard lessons recently. If we ignore the fanboys here, reality is more complex. Russia needs to realize that it needs to have better allies. Since the breakup of USSR, it thought it would be accepted by Europe & USA, therefore, it never really made much effort to be considered as a reliable ally to the Asians.
> 
> But since the last decade, it seems to realize that Europe & USA don't consider them as part of their club, and without allies, Russia will remain at risk. It needs to have stronger alliances with China, with Syria, with Iran, with Pakistan, to be able to create an Asian alliance. At the moment, no Asian country will be willing to put itself at risk to defend Russia's right.
> 
> Hopefully, Putin will consider this for the future of the country, but we don't see much hope yet. Putin did nothing to help their ally in Libya, and they came to Syria's support 4 years too late, and they have been backstabbing Iran regarding nuclear files constantly. It has never also stood strong with China to better support North Korea.
> 
> Let's see if this incident will teach the Russians a lesson to the great importance of alliances.



Most sensible reply by iranian so far.

I can't believe that iranian are rejoicing this event as dooms day for turkey.

Hell not even indians and Pakistani hate each other this much as much iranian hate is on display for turkey in this thread.

this really makes me sad

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## Serpentine

Getting interesting:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669467057235304452
Erdogan says Turkey does not want escalation with Russia | Alwasat English

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## Shotgunner51

PatriotLover said:


> Our relationship with China is same, no change. I just want to inform our Chinese brothers that in this case, we support Turkey, militarily if needed against Russia. Just for this case we cannot support Chinese demands.



Pakistani bros, I understand the tie between Pakistan and Turkey, be it Muslim or other cultural reasons. From China's perspective, one nation involved is a strategic partner on global geopolitics, while the other is a nation supporting separatist movement (ETIM), which did fire the first shot, so naturally China will be inclined to support the former aka Russia.

China and Pakistan are allies, friends, neither one is directly involved in this incident, so let's agree to disagree on this subject. Pakistani choices are understandable, and respected by China.

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## Serpentine

Double face of Erdogan:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669471506364108800

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## batmannow

Shotgunner51 said:


> Pakistani bros, I understand the tie between Pakistan and Turkey, be it Muslim or other reasons. From China's perspective, one nation involved is a strategic partner on global geopolitics, while the other is a nation supporting separatist movement (ETIM), which did fire the first shot, so naturally China will be inclined to support the former aka Russia.
> 
> China and Pakistan are allies, friends, neither one is directly involved in this incident, so let's agree to disagree on this subject. Pakistani choices are understandable, and respected by China.


Just remember Pakistan & China are all weather friends , be it any bloody weather , we will stand side by side .



Serpentine said:


> Double face of Erdogan:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669471506364108800


I guss , he was told that NATO will support turkey by just giving statements nothing else ?
That's was the long shot , Turkey tried to play down ,to get more financial & emotional support from NATO , which is in no mood to support ISIS this time .

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## fox 2

iajdani said:


> Both diagram is fake.. Just see the American released video where both aircraft entered each others airspace. F-16 shoot from within Syrian airspace.


Stop saying that. Our F-16 fired the missile from 60 km inside of our borders. Just shut up.


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## MertKaan

I say again that Turkey shoot down russian jet but Iranian and Chinese azz BURNING . WHY?????

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## AUz

Turks are a big player in the region with a formidable military. 

Turkish advance jets piloted by NATO-standard pilots would shoot any Russian asset near their borders, if given orders.

Russians can't directly attack Turkey because it'd be a suicide (attacking the biggest European power in NATO)..

I guess Russians will 'punish' Turkey by attacking Turkey's allies in Syria.

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## kollang

tugberksamur said:


> No there are not.Can you explain an air target except NATO around 30 miles? Bombing does not matter.We explained "Engagement Rules" before. If you cross the border you will be shot down. They knew it but they thought they would do whatever they want.


WTF? You share a long border with IS and other terrorist groups and they are rooted deep inside of Turkey.they are all potential targets of Russian AF and they will keep bombing them in future.deal with it.

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## Abingdonboy

Now it seems a joint Russian-Syrian CSAR mission rescued the second pilot, where is all this talk of the Turkish army treating them like guests to hand over to the Russians now?



AUz said:


> Russians can't directly attack Turkey because it'd be a suicide *(attacking the biggest European power in NATO).*.


By what measure? Militarily that would be France or Econmically it would be Germany.



Serpentine said:


> Double face of Erdogan:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669471506364108800


Now this is interesting. What game is Erdogan playing? I think he has massively overplayed his hand and tried too hard to be smart. His administration has massively messed up here and there is going to be a lot of bowing and apoligetic gestures from their side in the coming days, nothing about this has gone to his plan.

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## -SINAN-

Serpentine said:


> Getting interesting:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669467057235304452
> Erdogan says Turkey does not want escalation with Russia | Alwasat English



What would you expect him to say ? "Fvck Russia" ? We import huge amount of Natural Gas from Russia, Russian Tourists, Turkish firms is in major construction business in Russia. They are building our first Nuclear Plant and educating our nuclear scientists. Although EU and US imposed sanctions on Russia, we didn't made a move with them.

We have absolutely no problems with Russia. However Russia should learn to respect the sovereignty of Turkey.



Serpentine said:


> Double face of Erdogan:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669471506364108800



This was said after 2012 when Syrians downed our jet. What Erdoğan says is applied in all of the borders of Turkey, except Syrian border. RoE in Syrian border changed in 2012 and we are replying every intruder with the same manner.

There is no hypocrisy in that. 

Hypocrisy is in the Iranian users whom backed Syria when they downed our jet. Now you are backing Syria and Russia when we down their aircraft in a similar fashion as they did to ours.

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## scherz

MertKaan said:


> I say again that Turkey shoot down russian jet but Iranian and Chinese azz BURNING . WHY?????



Like NATO gives its solidarity to Turkey which supports Terrorist Groups like the Turkmen Militia, FSA and ISIS, some members gives its solidarity to Russia which bombing those Terrorists.





These are the Turkmen Guys killing one of the pilots.

Is the guy on the left Erdogan himself?

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## proka89

*McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake' *



> The former Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force said that Turkey shooting down a Russian plane was a "very bad mistake and showed poor judgment."
> 
> Lt. Gen. Tom McInerney said on "Real Story" that a radar tracking map shows the plane crossing the very tip of Turkey, which he estimated lasted for 20-40 seconds, and on a trajectory back toward Syria.
> 
> McInerney said that while he was a NORAD commander in Alaska they would never have done anything like this.
> 
> "This airplane was not making any maneuvers to attack the territory," McInerney said. "It was probably pressing the limits, that's fair. But you don't shoot 'em down just because of that."
> 
> Turkey maintains that it issued 10 warnings in a five-minute span to the Russian aircraft.



McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake' | Fox News Insider

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## RoadRunner401

*Russia deploys missile cruiser off Syria coast, ordered to destroy any target posing danger *

Moscow plans to suspend military cooperation with Ankara after the downing of a Russian bomber by Turkish air forces, Russian General Staff representatives said on Tuesday. Further measures to beef up Russian air base security in Syria will also be taken.
*
Three steps as announced by top brass:*
1. Each and every strike groups’ operation is to be carried out under the guise of fighter jets

2. Air defense to be boosted with the deployment of Moskva guided missile cruiser off Latakia coast with an aim to destroy any target that may pose danger

3. Military contacts with Turkey to be suspended


Sergey Rudskoy, a top official with the Russian General Staff, condemned the attack on the Russian bomber in Syrian airspace by a Turkish fighter jet as “_a severe violation of international law_”. He stressed that the Su-24 was downed over the Syrian territory. The crash site was four kilometers away from the Turkish border, he said.

Rudskoy said the Russian warplane did not violate Turkish airspace. Additionally, according to the Hmeymim airfield radar, it was the Turkish fighter jet that actually entered Syrian airspace as it attacked the Russian bomber.

The Turkish fighter jet made no attempts to contact Russian pilots before attacking the bomber, Rudskoy added.

“_We assume the strike was carried out with a close range missile with an infra-red seeker,_” Rudskoy said. “_The Turkish jet made no attempts to communicate or establish visual contact with our crew that our equipment would have registered. The Su-24 was hit by a missile over Syria’s territory_.”

Russia now plans to implement new measures aimed at strengthening the security of the country’s air base in Syria and in particular to bolster air defense.

Russian guided missile cruiser Moskva, equipped with the ‘Fort’ air defense system, similar to the S-300, will be deployed off Latakia province's coast.

"_We warn that every target posing a potential threat will be destroyed,”_ lieutenant general Sergey Rudskoy said during the briefing.








The Moskva (‘Moscow’) missile cruise is a flagship vessel of the Russian Black Sea fleet and is one of the fleet’s two biggest ships. The cruiser was stationed in Sevastopol but left in summer 2015 after being deployed to the Mediterranean Sea where it joined Russia’s standing naval force in the Mediterranean.

Since September 30, the Moskva cruiser acts as a covering force for the Russian air forces in Syria while deployed in the eastern Mediterranean.

“_All military contacts with Turkey will be suspended_,” Rudskoy added.

Turkey claims that it downed the Russian bomber in Turkish airspace after the plane was given 10 warnings in the space of five minutes as it approached the country’s territory.

_"Nobody should doubt that we made our best efforts to avoid this latest incident. But everyone should respect the right of Turkey to defend its borders,"_ Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said in a speech in Ankara.

_"The data we have is very clear. There were two planes approaching our border, we warned them as they were getting too close,"_ another senior Turkish official told Reuters.

_"Our findings show clearly that Turkish air space was violated multiple times. And they violated it knowingly."_

US President Barack Obama and his French counterpart Francois Hollande urged Russia and Turkey away from further escalation during a meeting in Washington, while NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg voiced the alliance’s support for Turkey.

A US military spokesman also said that the incident involves only Turkey and Russia and does not affect the US-led campaign in Syria, which will continue _“as planned”._

_Russia's president Vladimir Putin on Wednesday accused Turkey's leadership of deliberately supporting Islamification in its country and said Russia was sending its S-400 missile system to Syria to defend its airbase._

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## AUz

Abingdonboy said:


> By what measure? Militarily that would be France or Econmically it would be Germany.



Numbers.

Turkey has the largest NATO military in Europe (second largest in entire NATO only surpassed by the U.S).

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## Abingdonboy

zenmastera said:


> Stop saying that. Our F-16 fired the missile from 60 km inside of our borders. Just shut up.


Which is totally against established protocols- No visual identification was made and no visual warnings issued.

Russia and Turkey are not at war, what reason did the TuAF have to shoot down a Russian plane from 60km away for entering into their territory for 17 seconds? This is just getting more and more absurd. This is not how a mature nation or proffesional military behaves- 17 seconds???

The more one looks at it the more one comes to the conclusion this was about Turkey's dislike for the fact that Russia was cutting off their ISIS oil supply and targetting the "moderate" terrorists close to the Turkish border. Turkey's blatant duplicity in this entire ISIS campaign has not gone unnoticed by the rest of the world (especially NATO) so don't expect NATO to come to Turkey's defence- Turkey has left itself isolated in this matter and is entirely on the wrong side of history, ISIS supporters aren't going to be permitted by either Russia or NATO.


+ I have to say, on the global stage Turkey has set itself back decades by its actions. There was already growing discontent for the level of duplicty Turkey was exhibiting in the anti-ISIS efforts but to have escalated what should have been a non-incident to such a level has exhibited to the world that Turkey has completly gone off the deep end, it is no longer the sole beacon for hope in that region. Forget about EU membership and any other multi-lateral sweetners.



AUz said:


> [QUOTE="Abingdonboy, post: 7921887, member: 28303"
> By what measure? Militarily that would be France or Econmically it would be Germany.
> 
> 
> 
> Numbers.
> 
> Turkey has the largest NATO military in Europe (second largest in entire NATO only surpassed by the U.S).


Numbers aren't everything. The most capable military in NATO after the US is France and by some margin.

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## soundHound

So it begins, Russia to send S400 in Syria..

Russia to deploy S-400 missile system at Syria airbase | Business Standard Mobile Website

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## Abingdonboy

proka89 said:


> *McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake' *
> 
> 
> 
> McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake' | Fox News Insider


Can any members from Turkey respond to this? This is the former commander of NORAD speaking, his entire purpose for a long time was making these kinds of decsions (especially post 9/11) and is well versed in interception protocols and threat analysis. Who exactly gave the authority for the TuAF to shoot? This is the most pressing question that has remained unanswered, it doesn't matter if the plane was in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds, 40 seconds or 10 minuets. Who exactly deemed the threat to Turkey credible enough that it required the use of lethal force? 

Please don't parrot this "we protected our sovereignty" line- it is entirely BS. Your own radar trace shows the plane was on a course to EXIT your airspace and was NEVER flying inwards into Turkish territory. The fact that the Russian plane was engaged whilst at when BVR makes it that bit more unpalatable. 

What the TuAF did was entirely outside of NATO and all professional military interception guidlines and there needs to be some accountability. If it was the President then he needs to be made to answer what his agenda is, I find it hard to beleive a NATO member with supposedely world-class pilots would be so foolish.

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## AUz

Abingdonboy said:


> Numbers aren't everything. The most capable military in NATO after the US is France and by some margin.



Yes, we all know


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## Serpentine

Sinan said:


> Hypocrisy is in the Iranian users whom backed Syria when they downed our jet. Now you are backing Syria and Russia when we down their aircraft in a similar fashion as they did to ours.



Syria is in quasi state of war with Turkey, but Russia is not. Turkey is transferring armed people to Syria to overthrow its gov, no country in the world tolerates that, so you can't complain about Syria downing your jet.

But Russia has good relations with you (or had) and Erdogan tried to play the smartass role. Now we will see who stands to lose more from this, Turkey or Russia. I'll ask your opinion about this in few weeks.

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## RoadRunner401

Abingdonboy said:


> Which is totally against established protocols- No visual identification was made and no visual warnings issued.
> 
> Russia and Turkey are not at war, what reason did the TuAF have to shoot down a Russian plane from 60km away for entering into their territory for 17 seconds? This is just getting more and more absurd. This is not how a mature nation or proffesional military behaves- 17 seconds???
> 
> The more one looks at it the more one comes to the conclusion this was about Turkey's dislike for the fact that Russia was cutting off their ISIS oil supply and targetting the "moderate" terrorists close to the Turkish border. Turkey's blatant duplicity in this entire ISIS campaign has not gone unnoticed by the rest of the world (especially NATO) so don't expect NATO to come to Turkey's defence- Turkey has left itself isolated in this matter and is entirely on the wrong side of history, ISIS supporters aren't going to be permitted by either Russia or NATO.
> 
> 
> + I have to say, on the global stage Turkey has set itself back decades by its actions. There was already growing discontent for the level of duplicty Turkey was exhibiting in the anti-ISIS efforts but to have escalated what should have been a non-incident to such a level has exhibited to the world that Turkey has completly gone off the deep end, it is no longer the sole beacon for hope in that region. Forget about EU membership and any other multi-lateral sweetners.
> 
> 
> Numbers aren't everything. The most capable military in NATO after the US is France and by some margin.



ISIS supply line run through Turkey. Plus they are buying Oil From ISIS not to mention↓
↓↓↓↓

The Assad regime, supported by Hezbollah and Iranian forces and Russia by the air and sea, continues to attack the Bayirbucak region, close to Turkish border, inhabited by Turkmen.

The intensification of the attacks in the last period shows that Russia aims to give more power to President Bashar al-Assad before sitting at the negotiation table with the opposition forces, in accordance with the conclusion of the Vienna talks last week.

Russia has also been attacking the Bayirbucak Turkmen region since Sept. 30, when it began an air ‘counterterrorism’ campaign in Syria.

Russia, known for 'coordinating' fighting in the region between regime forces and Turkmen units, intervenes in the situation by attacking Turkmen Mountain with missiles from warships in the Mediterranean.

Regime forces, supported by Russia’s air campaign, are staging a ground operation in the region.

The attacks began in the southeastern Gimam village while, for the last five days, Russian jets have intensively bombed Acisu, Firinlik and Red Mountain (Kizildag) regions in Bayirbucak.

Hezbollah and Iranian forces, fighting actively in the region for about two years, also support the operation.

According to local sources, Gimam, Hill 45, Zuveyk village, Acisu intersection and the Red Mountain hill region have passed into the control of Assad regime forces.
Turkmen Mountain

The head of Turkmen Parliament in Syria, Abdurrahman Mustafa, says that various motivations lay behind Russia’s rising attacks against Turkmen Mountain.

He said that in the short run, Russia’s aim is to give military superiority to the Assad regime, and to sit down as powerful as possible at the negotiation table.

“The Turkmen Mountain is a buffer zone in the coastal region,” Mustafa said, adding that it is a region that has remained between Antakya and “Latakia, which is Assad’s castle”.

He said that in the case of the Assad regime taking control of Turkmen Mountain it could then pose a threat to Turkey.

Mustafa said that Assad aims to include the strategic region of Turkmen Mountain inside the borders of the Nusrayi state.

Mustafa, speaking also about a possible Kurdish zone, said that the “fall of the Turkmen Mountain will provide an opportunity for Kurds to come to the Mediterranean shore”.

Mustafa said that the protection of the Turkmen presence in Bayirbucak region would also be an obstacle for the Kurdish zone.

*Strategic importance of Bayirbucak*

The Red Mountain, about five kilometers [just over three miles] from the Turkish border, has the strategic importance of being the highest peak in the region.

If the regime forces obtain full control of Red Mountain, they can attack 10 villages located in the region, with artillery.

Acisu region is another target of the regime forces. Acisu, the Red Mountain and Hill 45 in the south, have vital importance for the Syrian regime.

In the southern line, after the Gimam village, the Assad regime has taken control of Zuveyk village. By advancing in the Burcu’l Kasab region, the Assad regime forces can break up the connection between Turkmen Mountain and Cebel Ekrad, and besiege the Turkmen Mountain.

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## -SINAN-

Abingdonboy said:


> Can any members from Turkey respond to this? This is the former commander of NORAD speaking, his entire purpose for a long time was making these kinds of decsions (especially post 9/11) and is well versed in interception protocols and threat analysis. Who exactly gave the authority for the TuAF to shoot? This is the most pressing question that has remained unanswered, it doesn't matter if the plane was in Turkish airspace for 17 seconds, 40 seconds or 10 minuets. Who exactly deemed the threat to Turkey credible enough that it required the use of lethal force?
> 
> Please don't parrot this "we protected our sovereignty" line- it is entirely BS. Your own radar trace shows the plane was on a course to EXIT your airspace and was NEVER flying inwards into Turkish territory. The fact that the Russian plane was engaged whilst at when BVR makes it that bit more unpalatable.
> 
> What the TuAF did was entirely outside of NATO and all professional military interception guidlines and there needs to be some accountability. If it was the President then he needs to be made to answer what his agenda is, I find it hard to beleive a NATO member with supposedely world-class pilots would be so foolish.



If you are unable to understand after 1855 posts....i don't think, you can understand.

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## haviZsultan

Has there been any proof that the plane was downed in Turkish territory or Syrian territory? Both countries are claiming different things.


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## Abingdonboy

RoadRunner401 said:


> The Assad regime, supported by Hezbollah and Iranian forces and Russia by the air and sea, continues to attack the Bayirbucak region, close to Turkish border, inhabited by Turkmen.
> 
> The intensification of the attacks in the last period shows that Russia aims to give more power to President Bashar al-Assad before sitting at the negotiation table with the opposition forces, in accordance with the conclusion of the Vienna talks last week.


So Erdogan has scored an own goal here of monumental proportions through his own stupidity. I am honestly not sure if Erdogan had a plan that was absurdely ill-conceived or his "hard" posture entirely unfounded and counter-productive?


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## -SINAN-

Serpentine said:


> Syria is in quasi state of war with Turkey, but Russia is not. Turkey is transferring armed people to Syria to overthrow its gov, no country in the world tolerates that, so you can't complain about Syria downing your jet.


Turkey at that time only raised concerns....support for FSA only came through after they shoot our aircraft out of nowhere.



Serpentine said:


> But Russia has good relations with you (or had) and Erdogan tried to play the smartass role. Now we will see who stands to lose more from this, Turkey or Russia. I'll ask your opinion about this in few weeks.


Mate, blaming Erdoğan, PM, goverment of Turkey, opposition of Turkey, US, NATO....it's meaningless. As they are not giving permission to pilots, to shot or not.

*I'm saying again. Rules of Engagement changed in Syrian border in 2012.* And we declared it to whole world. Knowing our RoE Russians should stay away from our borders. They violated and they got shot. If tomorrow, they violate again , they will be shot again. Simple as that.

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## RoadRunner401

haviZsultan said:


> Has there been any proof that the plane was downed in Turkish territory or Syrian territory? Both countries are claiming different things.



Well according to Turks, they warned the pilot 10 times in 17 seconds.

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## monitor

Thing seems turning to worst from bad. Russia now threaten to attack anything and going to deploy guided missile cruiser near lstakia to shoot down anything threaten fighter escorting bomber.


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## Abingdonboy

Sinan said:


> Mate, blaming Erdoğan, PM, goverment of Turkey, opposition of Turkey, US, NATO....it's meaningless. As they are not giving permission to pilots, to shot or not.


So who is giving such authority?


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## Hakan

takeiteasy said:


> Lattakian province


#1 that's not even latakia that's around Ayn Al-Arab.

#2 
At Syrian border, therefore according kindergarten level logic Turkey supports PYD. 










Let's see you admit you that you posted disinformation. 


-------------

The cruiser moskova was already being deployed to the Mediterranean before this event. The only new thing is S-400.



RoadRunner401 said:


> Well according to Turks, they warned the pilot 10 times in 17 seconds.


Prior to entering Turkish airspace even.

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## haviZsultan

RoadRunner401 said:


> Well according to Turks, they warned the pilot 10 times in 17 seconds.


If he was in Turkish territory how was one of the pilots found in Syria. I mean no offence to turkish brothers but there are always multiple views to any problem.


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## -SINAN-

Abingdonboy said:


> So who is giving such authority?


_*Rules of Engagement*_ (*ROE*) are rules or directives to military forces (including individuals) that define the circumstances, conditions, degree, and manner in which the use of force, or actions which might be construed as provocative, may be applied.[1] They provide authorization for and/or limits on, among other things, the use of force and the employment of certain specific capabilities.

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## Hakan

monitor said:


> Thing seems turning to worst from bad. Russia now threaten to attack anything and going to deploy guided missile cruiser near lstakia to shoot down anything threaten fighter escorting bomber.


They can't attack anything without an extremely good reason. If they attack Turkey their Syria op is finished. The Turkish straits are closed to Russian war ships.

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## -SINAN-

This is supposed to be a defense forum.... yet people keep talking like 5th graders......

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## RoadRunner401

Sinan said:


> Turkey at that time only raised concerns....support for FSA only came through after they shoot our aircraft out of nowhere.
> 
> 
> Mate, blaming Erdoğan, PM, goverment of Turkey, opposition of Turkey, US, NATO....it's meaningless. As they are not giving permission to pilots, to shot or not.
> 
> *I'm saying again. Rules of Engagement changed in Syrian border in 2012.* And we declared it to whole world. Knowing our RoE Russians should stay away from our borders. They violated and they got shot. If tomorrow, they violate again , they will be shot again. Simple as that.



Around a dozen Turkmen militias have formed, some directly supported by the Turkish government. It is one of these, Alwiya al-Ashar, that is reportedly killed one of Russia's downed pilots.




They have been fighting alongside other rebel groups, including the al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra and more moderate brigades, in Latakia province which runs to the sea along the Turkish border in the north-west.

In recent days, thousands of civilians have fled over the border, saying they feared Russian bombing raids in support of regime forces in the area. Another 5,000 arrived at a refugee camp at Arfali, on the Syrian side of the border.

According to the governor of the Turkish province of Hatay, Ercan Topaca, 28 civilians arrived injured and one died in hospital.

The clash that led to the downing of the Russian jet today may be connected to that fighting.

Alwiya al-Ashar is linked to a Turkish and CIA-backed logistics supply programme that funnels a near-constant stream of small arms, ammunition, and cash for salaries to rebel groups across northern Syria.


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## Hakan

haviZsultan said:


> If he was in Turkish territory how was one of the pilots found in Syria. I mean no offence to turkish brothers but there are always multiple views to any problem.


Did you see the map? He was in a slice of Turkish territory, after he got shot the plane was still flying or crashing thus he landed in Syria.

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## -------

Sinan said:


> This is supposed to be a defense forum.... yet people keep talking like 5th graders......



What you expect from Putinbots ?

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## -SINAN-

haviZsultan said:


> If he was in Turkish territory how was one of the pilots found in Syria. I mean no offence to turkish brothers but there are always multiple views to any problem.


And TT knows nothing about linear momentum....and he even took his time to radar signature map, which has been posted many times in this thread....

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## Hakan

RoadRunner401 said:


> Around a dozen Turkmen militias have formed, some directly supported by the Turkish government. It is one of these, Alwiya al-Ashar, that is reportedly killed one of Russia's downed pilots.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They have been fighting alongside other rebel groups, including the al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat al-Nusra and more moderate brigades, in Latakia province which runs to the sea along the Turkish border in the north-west.
> 
> In recent days, thousands of civilians have fled over the border, saying they feared Russian bombing raids in support of regime forces in the area. Another 5,000 arrived at a refugee camp at Arfali, on the Syrian side of the border.
> 
> According to the governor of the Turkish province of Hatay, Ercan Topaca, 28 civilians arrived injured and one died in hospital.
> 
> The clash that led to the downing of the Russian jet today may be connected to that fighting.
> 
> Alwiya al-Ashar is linked to a Turkish and CIA-backed logistics supply programme that funnels a near-constant stream of small arms, ammunition, and cash for salaries to rebel groups across northern Syria.


Downing 1 airplane doesn't make a difference. Air Force commanders and pilots may have been pissed by Russian bombing of Turkmens so they didn't miss the chance to shoot down a Russian jet as pay back.

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## -SINAN-

Combat-Master said:


> What you expect from Putinbots ?


Not only them...also Pakistani "Think Tanks"..... other elite users...this is just comedy. I mean if you don't know anything on the subject, just don't claim things...at least you won't look stupid that way.

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## Abingdonboy

Sinan said:


> _*Rules of Engagement*_ (*ROE*) are rules or directives to military forces (including individuals) that define the circumstances, conditions, degree, and manner in which the use of force, or actions which might be construed as provocative, may be applied.[1] They provide authorization for and/or limits on, among other things, the use of force and the employment of certain specific capabilities.


I understand what ROE are, so what are the ROEs for the TuAF along the border with Syria? I sincerely doubt shoot-down authority is at the discretion of the induvidual pilots.

For example, in the UK when a RAF QRA intercepts a plane the PM or a senior cabinet offical will be in the loop should the plane fail to respond to warnings and should the threat perception be such that the order to shoot needs to be made by the aforementioned civlian officals. Turkey is a democracy is it not? Should the power to shoot down any planes during peace time not come from the civilian government?

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## haviZsultan

Hakan said:


> Did you see the map? He was in a slice of Turkish territory, after he got shot the plane was still flying or crashing thus he landed in Syria.


I see. Russians have a different view I see. No offense meant but what use is being in the US camp? Look what they did to Pakistan and we were their foremost allies.

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## tugberksamur

kollang said:


> WTF? You share a long border with IS and other terrorist groups and they are rooted deep inside of Turkey.they are all potential targets of Russian AF and they will keep bombing them in future.deal with it.


Russian route was over 100 km from ISIS targets.They were bombing Turkmens who are in FSA. FSA is fighting against Assad forces and ISIS and this absolutely shows Russians' purpose.

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## Abingdonboy

Hakan said:


> Downing 1 airplane doesn't make a difference. Air Force commanders and pilots may have been pissed by Russian bombing of Turkmens so they didn't miss the chance to shoot down a Russian jet as pay back.


You don't engage a foriegn aircraft and risk a major international incident for "pay back"- that would be entirely improper and unprofessional. IF this is what has happened then Turkey needs to be removed from NATO, we can't have ourselves be at risk or liable for the mistakes of a few cowboys in the TuAF. I'm not having article 5 imposed for such pettiness.

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## Hakan

haviZsultan said:


> I see. Russians have a different view I see. No offense meant but what use is being in the US camp? Look what they did to Pakistan and we were their foremost allies.


Turkey can't be in the Russian camp we clash in too many areas: Syria, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Balkans. They are orthodox Christian so automatically they hate us and are friends with all other orthodox who also hate us.

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## RoadRunner401

Sinan said:


> Not only them...also Pakistani "Think Tanks"..... other elite users...this is just comedy. I mean if you don't know anything on the subject, just don't claim things...at least you won't look stupid that way.



Well, this might be opportunity to set them all straight by sharing your point of view on the subject.


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## BordoEnes

scherz said:


> Like NATO gives its solidarity to Turkey which supports Terrorist Groups like the Turkmen Militia, FSA and ISIS, some members gives its solidarity to Russia which bombing those Terrorists.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These are the Turkmen Guys killing one of the pilots.
> 
> Is the guy on the left Erdogan himself?



You mean the same NATO members you accuse of supporting rebels and ISIS aswell? You people really dont know what the actual **** you are talking about, you're an eyesour. It cant be more obvious that you people have double standards. Russia got their arze handed to them, now piss off.

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## pher

PatriotLover said:


> Our relationship with China is same, no change. I just want to inform our Chinese brothers that in this case, we support Turkey, militarily if needed against Russia. Just for this case we cannot support Chinese demands.


does any chinese demand you? we all know you have your muslim brotherhood with turks, we don't mind. you do yours, we do ours, fair enough?

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## Hakan

Abingdonboy said:


> You don't engage a foriegn aircraft and risk a major international incident for "pay back"- that would be entirely improper and unprofessional. IF this is what has happened then Turkey needs to be removed from NATO, we can't have ourselves be at risk or liable for the mistakes of a few cowboys in the TuAF. I'm not having article 5 imposed for such pettiness.


Ok ok Turkish leaders are dumb and have no experience. Russia fan boys on forums know better, they have access to all of the Intel available to Sultan Erdogan and his grand vizier davutoglu. Turkey supports Isis, kills Kurds, and Armenian genocide. Russia will nuke Turkey. Kick out of NATO.

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## -SINAN-

RoadRunner401 said:


> Well, this might be opportunity to set them all straight by sharing your point of view on the subject.


I did that already, for several times.... i'm gonna open a new thread. And explain the whole situation.

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## Hakan

Notice how Iranians, Chinese, and Russia fan boys haven't even been accusing U.S or Europe of supporting ISIS for at least one year now. They focus all attention on Turkey. They must be planning something....

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## Vergennes

Abingdonboy said:


> You don't engage a foriegn aircraft and risk a major international incident for "pay back"- that would be entirely improper and unprofessional. IF this is what has happened then Turkey needs to be removed from NATO, we can't have ourselves be at risk or liable for the mistakes of a few cowboys in the TuAF. I'm not having article 5 imposed for such pettiness.



Turkey downed this plane and literally rushed to NATO instead of explaining this incident with Russia,as if they downed one of their jet.
We almost created an alliance with Russia to battle ISIS and someone had to topple our projects...

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## pher

batmannow said:


> Pakistan will not do anything , except few statements cause its not in any position to drag itself into , stupid proxy battle grounds .
> No it won't , just few months back when KSA was hell bent on Pakistan to send it troops against yeman , Pakistan bravely said no , we don't go at war against any Muslim state ?
> Here case is the same , sirya +RUSSIA+IRAN vs ISIS+TURKEY+KSA +ISRAEL +USA +EU ?
> NO Pakistan has its own full plate of problems , take care yourself bro ?lolzz


you forget to add china to the left side of the equation, it is not fair. while we are relatively silent right now, we just buy our time. it will be on more than 5 years we will take the showdown with US, the rest of its pawn will begin to suffer.

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## tugberksamur

Abingdonboy said:


> You don't engage a foriegn aircraft and risk a major international incident for "pay back"- that would be entirely improper and unprofessional. IF this is what has happened then Turkey needs to be removed from NATO, we can't have ourselves be at risk or liable for the mistakes of a few cowboys in the TuAF. I'm not having article 5 imposed for such pettiness.


It seems you dont get Turkish ROE in Syrian borders. Turkey changed ROE completely after Syria shot down a turkish f-4 from Russian base. Russia was harrassing Turkey by locking radars on F-16s and crossing borders with their UAV.Turkey said this will not tolerated no more and did not.

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## Abingdonboy

Hakan said:


> Ok ok Turkish leaders are dumb and have no experience. Russia fan boys on forums know better, they have access to all of the Intel available to Sultan Erdogan and his grand vizier davutoglu. Turkey supports Isis, kills Kurds, and Armenian genocide. Russia will nuke Turkey. Kick out of NATO.


1) I'm not a Russian "fan boy"
2) I made no reference to Erdogan
3) I made no reference to or call for Turkey to be nuked- that would be absurd


I am talking about logic and established norms. No proffesional military would shoot down a foreign plane and risk such an international incident for "payback" as you put it. If this is the case then some very hard questions need to be asked of the Turkish military.



tugberksamur said:


> It seems you dont get Turkish ROE in Syrian borders. Turkey changed ROE completely after Syria shot down a turkish f-4 from Russian base. Russia was harrassing Turkey by locking radars on F-16s and crossing borders with their UAV.Turkey said this will not tolerate no more and did not.


Then explain the ROE to me! I am openly saying I don't get Turkish ROE and have been asking for over 100 pages for someone to provide me with the answer. Who exactly has the authority to shoot down a foriegn aircraft along the Turkish-Syrian border?

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## Kamil_baku

Beast said:


> No aircraft shot down in east China sea. But in this scenario. Some foolish idiot pull the trigger and dig its own grave.
> 
> When China tell Abe that even firing tracer rounds is an act of war. Abe drop any idea of firing.
> 
> But mad Erdogan is digging grave for all Turkish.


its called balls! You should zoom in on you to see what im mean..
sometims, i feel sorry for you... )

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## Immanuel

Well with the S-400 being deployed in Syria, in a matter of a week the entire air space will be under lock down pretty much to everybody other than Russia. Pantsir-S-1 will be placed closer to borders to prevent low level intrusions. Next time TUAF F-16s enter Syria, they'll be toast. The Turkmen camps will be slaughtered by week's end.

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## Abingdonboy

FrenchPilot said:


> Turkey downed this plane and literally rushed to NATO instead of explaining this incident with Russia,as if they downed one of their jet.
> We almost created an alliance with Russia to battle ISIS and someone had to topple our projects...


I never really scrutinused Turkey's actions in the anti-ISIS program, I suppose I naively assumed that as a NATO member who likes to project itself as moderate,democratic and law abiding that they were on "our" side and doing the "right" thing. It seems nothing could be further from the truth.

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## surya kiran

Serpentine said:


> Syria is in quasi state of war with Turkey, but Russia is not. Turkey is transferring armed people to Syria to overthrow its gov, no country in the world tolerates that, so you can't complain about Syria downing your jet.
> 
> But Russia has good relations with you (or had) and Erdogan tried to play the smartass role. Now we will see who stands to lose more from this, Turkey or Russia. I'll ask your opinion about this in few weeks.



The Turks on this forum, seem to be on a ego boost trip. They downed a Russian plane. Yes, it lead to the TuAF being grounded. Any Turkish plane flying close to the border of Syria will now be shot down if Russian planes are in the air. With the deployment of the S400 and the Moskva, the TuAF is as good as grounded. And if they try going after the Moskva or the S400, its good bye Turkey! No NATO will be able to save them. 

And it will not be the Russian forces. For now, I think, PKK will see increased arms flow into them. France is not coming in to help. Neither will the US. The Israelis will watch the show while Erdogan goes down.

They buy gas from Russia and wanted to buy from Iran. They can say good bye to this. Which means the Arabs will now have a stranglehold on Turkey.

These guys really need to get their heads checked. What were these idiots thinking????

To the Iranians on this forum. There are laid down rules of engagement. You increase air patrols and escort the opponent out. You do not fire missiles on a fighter which is not attacking your citizens. And Turkmen are not Turkish citizens? They are Syrian citizens.

The last time I saw Putin this mad led to Georgia and then to Ukraine. This time is going to be the same. Except with proxies. Turkey just sped up the creation of a Kurdish state. All Hail Turkey.

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## pher

MertKaan said:


> I say again that Turkey shoot down russian jet but Iranian and Chinese azz BURNING . WHY?????


you should ask the same questions to your pakistan brothers why they shout so much to support you?

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## Kamil_baku

Madali said:


> Why doesn't Turkey have the balls to come out and say, "We support ISIS and no one has the right to bomb them?" instead of always being sneaky about it?
> 
> They should learn a thing or two from Iran. When we support Hezbollah, we are direct and honest about it, and we don't care if the west calls them a terrorist group.


Turkey is very direct that they support FSA, and they showed the level of their support yesterday... 
dont come here to Troll.. you better feel shamed for making sectarian war..

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## damm1t

This thread with the all bullsh*t it includes is a good example why i have been keeping away for a while. Get a pc and internet connection here we go you are a pro-level expert on any single sh*t you dont have an idea about. I'm really tired of dealing with advanced idiocy. I'm out of this.

P.S: Russians, chinese, iranians, syrians and their ball lickers are free to send more figters into Turkish airspace to test things out.

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## pher

AUz said:


> Turks are a big player in the region with a formidable military.
> 
> Turkish advance jets piloted by NATO-standard pilots would shoot any Russian asset near their borders, if given orders.
> 
> Russians can't directly attack Turkey because it'd be a suicide (attacking the biggest European power in NATO)..
> 
> I guess Russians will 'punish' Turkey by attacking Turkey's allies in Syria.


suicide? sould like a god from your mentality. let me tell you, china and russia could easily handle those nato clowns, if you don't believe, you can try.

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## surya kiran

Kamil_baku said:


> its called balls! You should zoom in on you to see what im mean..
> sometims, i feel sorry for you... )



I never thought I would say this. But @Beast is right. Believe me, the Chinese are way more powerful than your armed forces. But, they do not go into a shooting match. They use their brains, unlike the Turks here who seem to be using their balls. You do not show your balls to your opponent and then give a reason to cut it off. You just did that.

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## -------

pher said:


> suicide? sould like a god from your mentality. let me tell you, china and russia could easily handle those nato clowns, if you don't believe, you can try.



China would be partitioned like a pomegranate.


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## fox 2

Russia need to understand this. You can't came from 1000 mile away and acting like a mafia of the region. This is our region. You need to work with us. If you don't like us you can go to hell.

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## tugberksamur

Abingdonboy said:


> 1) I'm not a Russian "fan boy"
> 2) I made no reference to Erdogan
> 3) I made no reference to or call for Turkey to be nuked- that would be absurd
> 
> 
> I am talking about logic and established norms. No proffesional military would shoot down a foreign plane and risk such an international incident for "payback" as you put it. If this is the case then some very hard questions need to be asked of the Turkish military.
> 
> 
> Then explain the ROE to me! I am openly saying I don't get Turkish ROE and have been asking for over 100 pages for someone to provide me with the answer. Who exactly has the authority to shoot down a foriegn aircraft along the Turkish-Syrian border?



If you search instead of asking, you will see

"Every military element approaching Turkey from the Syrian border and representing a security risk and danger will be assessed as a military threat and will be treated as a military target"


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## asena_great

Kamil_baku said:


> its called balls! You should zoom in on you to see what im mean..
> sometims, i feel sorry for you... )

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## pher

Combat-Master said:


> China would be partitioned like a pomegranate.


you could pray for that happen, really hard. by your flag, I know the reason why turks did to you.

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## Abingdonboy

tugberksamur said:


> If you search instead of asking, you will see
> 
> "Every military element approaching Turkey from the Syrian border and representing a security risk and danger will be assessed as a military threat and will be treated as a military target"



Shooting down a plane/using lethal force is the very LAST option and should only be used when there is a clear and present danger posed by the opposing aircraft to your national security.

You don't shoot down every aircraft that happens to stumble into your airspace and that too for a mere 17 seconds. The flight path it took (as shown by the Turkish military themselves) makes it clear that the Russian plane at no time was heading for the interior of Turkey and thus presented an almost negligable threat. Shooting from 60km away with zero warning (no, 5 minuets of radio warnings are not sufficent nor are they the only warnings prescribed by NATO) at a plane entering your airspace for seconds is entirely improper and, frankly, stupid.

Until now no Russian plane has bombed Turkish territory, there is simply no precedent of Russian aircraft posing a threat to Turkey as such the penalty for entering Turkish airspace in such a irrelevant manner should not be execution.

If Turkey wants to be treated like a mature country it should act like one and the fact that they have the ability to call on NATO for help means it is my problem or any citizen of a NATO country. You can act like clowns but don't do so when hiding behind the NATO sheild.

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## -SINAN-

FrenchPilot said:


> Turkey downed this plane and literally rushed to NATO instead of explaining this incident with Russia,as if they downed one of their jet.
> We almost created an alliance with Russia to battle ISIS and someone had to topple our projects...



Who is holding you down ? Go fight ISIS on your own ? And no, Russia is not bombing ISIS but FSA.

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## scherz

damm1t said:


> This thread with the all bullsh*t it includes is a good example why i have been keeping away for a while. Get a pc and internet connection here we go you are a pro-level expert on any single sh*t you dont have an idea about. I'm really tired of dealing with advanced idiocy. I'm out of this.
> 
> P.S: Russians, chinese, iranians, syrians and their ball lickers are free to send more figters into Turkish airspace to test things out.



Dont be arrogant. Russia only need half day to wipe out all turkish airbases and air defence systems. Thats fact.
Know where your place is.
Dont act like a male teenager with too much testosteron. This is the real world in bigger dimension not in your street.

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## -SINAN-

surya kiran said:


> Yes, it lead to the TuAF being grounded. Any Turkish plane flying close to the border of Syria will now be shot down if Russian planes are in the air.


Turkey raised it's F-16 patrol aircrafts in Syrian border to 18 from 16.... Keep on dreaming Putin fanboy.

18 F-16 birden uçtu - Milliyet.com.tr

*To readers of this thread. Most of the Indian posters are doing nothing but lying in this thread.*

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## Vergennes

Sinan said:


> Who is holding you down ? Go fight ISIS on your own ? And no, Russia is not bombing ISIS but FSA.



That's what we are already doing,but we have to work with the Russians,and everyone who is serious about wiping them out should join them. C'mon,FSA or whatever is dead since long time ago,our leaders sadly want to show us there are still "moderate" fighters,but it's all BS.
And BTW,if we had ISIS guys on the other side of the border,we would have wiped them out instead of sending our tanks to the border,watching what they are doing and waiting something to happen. 
If only Turkey was that strict toward ISIS guys than Russian aircrafts.


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## AUz

pher said:


> suicide? sould like a god from your mentality. let me tell you, china and russia could easily handle those nato clowns, if you don't believe, you can try.



Stop being a stupid *** and stop giving china a bad name. Senior Chinese members who have been visiting this forums are smart and insightful...but few new young one's are acting like indians and making a joke outa themselves.

NATO means West under the leadership of United States.

No military alliance, as of today, can face United States.

EVEN IF Russia, Europe, and China join hands----United States will still decimate them in conventional war.

Russians aren't stupid to attack mainland Turkey. Period.

Lets move on...

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## pher

scherz said:


> Dont be arrogant. Russia only need half day to wipe out all turkish airbases and air defence systems. Thats fact.
> Know where your place is.
> Dont act like a male teenager with too much testosteron. This is the real world in bigger dimension not in your street.


I don't think that is arrogant, which at least had some stuff to back up. I would call it ignorant. those turks shout like north korean here. at least north korea has china back up so US couldn't do nothing. who will stand up for turks? those nato ally christian whites? don't make me laugh.

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## asena_great

@FrenchPilot Russia bombing FSA so they could show isis is the only opposition to assad and force the world to close their eyes on the genocide he committed so they could keep their bloody handed murderer on power

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## pher

AUz said:


> Stop being a stupid *** and stop giving china a bad name. Senior Chinese members who have been visiting this forums are smart and insightful...but few new young one's are acting like indians and making a joke outa themselves.
> 
> NATO means West under the leadership of United States.
> 
> No military alliance, as of today, can face United States.
> 
> EVEN IF Russia, Europe, and China join hands----United States will still decimate them in conventional war.
> 
> Russians aren't stupid to attack mainland Turkey. Period.
> 
> Lets move on...


save your US worship mentality to somewhere else, we don't buy it. simple is that.
we already know what US capable of in korea war. we and russia also drew a red line for US on north korea and iran, US buy it, simple is that.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Putin tried to Play bully in Ukraine and Syria. And got smacked by Turkey and NATO grinning behind the curtains.
The irrelevant postings of chinese and Indian fanboys will not Change the fact that russia already abondoned the western/russian partnership to be the new bogeyman in eurasia.
Putin is a political pawn. he has absolutely Zero powerprojection capability. It is just funny. Maybe his chinese "allies" should help him out now. Otherwise Putin is becoming more pathetic every day from now on.
Maybe it would be wise for China to abondone russia completly and focuse on western/China partnership.
bye bye russia..

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## Sanchez

I read that Russians rescued one of the pilots to safety and heavily bombed the Turkmen rebels, can anyone confirm this?

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## tugberksamur

Abingdonboy said:


> Shooting down a plane/using lethal forceu is the very LAST option and should only be used when there is a clear and present danger posed by the opposing aircraft to your national security.
> 
> You don't shoot down every aircraft that happens to stumble into your airspace and that too for a mere 17 seconds. The flight path it took (as shown by the Turkish military themselves) makes it clear that the Russian plane at no time was heading for the interior of Turkey and thus presented an almost negligable threat. Shooting from 60km away with zero warning (no, 5 minuets of radio warnings are not sufficent nor are they the only warnings prescribed by NATO) at a plane entering your airspace for seconds is entirely improper and, frankly, stupid.
> 
> Until now no Russian plane has bombed Turkish territory, there is simply no precedent of Russian aircraft posing a threat to Turkey as such the penalty for entering Turkish airspace in such a irrelevant manner should not be execution.
> 
> If Turkey wants to be treated like a mature country it should act like one and the fact that they have the ability to call on NATO for help means it is my problem or any citizen of a NATO country. You can act like clowns but don't do so when hiding behind the NATO sheild.


You dont want to understand. According to ROE we would shoot.We warned them 10 times in 5 mins.They did not listen. Stop blaming Turkey and ask although turkish warnings why russians entered borders?

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## Sanchez

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Putin tried to Play bully in Ukraine and Syria. And got smacked by Turkey and NATO grinning behind the curtains.
> The irrelevant postings of chinese and Indian fanboys will not Change the fact that russia already abondoned the western/russian partnership to be the new bogeyman in eurasia.
> Putin is a political pawn. he has absolutely Zero powerprojection capability. It is just funny. Maybe his chinese "allies" should help him out now. Otherwise Putin is becoming more pathetic every day from now on.
> Maybe it would be wise for China to abondone russia completly and focuse on western/China partnership.
> bye bye russia..



Jewish? You think any of posters here would care about what you say? Your israel is one of the backhands of isis.

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## pher

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Putin tried to Play bully in Ukraine and Syria. And got smacked by Turkey and NATO grinning behind the curtains.
> The irrelevant postings of chinese and Indian fanboys will not Change the fact that russia already abondoned the western/russian partnership to be the new bogeyman in eurasia.
> Putin is a political pawn. he has absolutely Zero powerprojection capability. It is just funny. Maybe *his chinese "allies"* should help him out now. Otherwise Putin is becoming more pathetic every day from now on.
> Maybe it would be wise for China to abondone russia completly and focuse on western/China partnership.
> bye bye russia..


actully we did. we just handed over russia $15billions in the name of pre-payments oil import last week, and we will be happy to help more if neccesary.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER



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## -SINAN-

FrenchPilot said:


> That's what we are already doing,but we have to work with the Russians,and everyone who is serious about wiping them out should join them.


No, you don't have to work with Russia. You need to work with US. Do US working with Russia ? No ?



FrenchPilot said:


> C'mon,FSA or whatever is dead since long time ago,our leaders sadly want to show us there are still "moderate" fighters,but it's all BS.


There is FSA , SAA, Hezbollah, Russia, YPG and ISIS. You are fed by your media, not doing your own research. There is the Syrian Civil War thread. There you can learn more about the issue.




FrenchPilot said:


> And BTW,if we had ISIS guys on the other side of the border,we would have wiped them out instead of sending our tanks to the border,watching what they are doing and waiting something to happen.
> If only Turkey was that strict toward ISIS guys than Russian aircrafts.



And if my aunt had an mustache, she would be my uncle. You guys are all talk and no action.

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## cnleio

Russia annouced to deploy S-400 in Syria ... frist step as same as i thought, keep going

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## russiarussia

Yeah, one of 2 Russian pilots shuts down by Turkey rescued, and back to airbase in Syria. And his health is out of danger.



Sanchez said:


> I read that Russians rescued one of the pilots to safety and heavily bombed the Turkmen rebels, can anyone confirm this?

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## Aslan

Abingdonboy said:


> Which is totally against established protocols- No visual identification was made and no visual warnings issued.
> 
> Russia and Turkey are not at war, what reason did the TuAF have to shoot down a Russian plane from 60km away for entering into their territory for 17 seconds? This is just getting more and more absurd. This is not how a mature nation or proffesional military behaves- 17 seconds???
> 
> The more one looks at it the more one comes to the conclusion this was about Turkey's dislike for the fact that Russia was cutting off their ISIS oil supply and targetting the "moderate" terrorists close to the Turkish border. Turkey's blatant duplicity in this entire ISIS campaign has not gone unnoticed by the rest of the world (especially NATO) so don't expect NATO to come to Turkey's defence- Turkey has left itself isolated in this matter and is entirely on the wrong side of history, ISIS supporters aren't going to be permitted by either Russia or NATO.
> 
> 
> + I have to say, on the global stage Turkey has set itself back decades by its actions. There was already growing discontent for the level of duplicty Turkey was exhibiting in the anti-ISIS efforts but to have escalated what should have been a non-incident to such a level has exhibited to the world that Turkey has completly gone off the deep end, it is no longer the sole beacon for hope in that region. Forget about EU membership and any other multi-lateral sweetners.
> 
> 
> Numbers aren't everything. The most capable military in NATO after the US is France and by some margin.


Don't lecture others on protocol when ur own airforce shot down a navy transporter not even a bomber an un armed plane flying within pakistan. So yes protocols.

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## pher

cnleio said:


> Russia annouced to deploy S-400 in Syria ... frist step as same as i thought, keep going
> 
> View attachment 274697
> View attachment 274698


good, and it will crash any turks plane even 1 centmeter over syrian border.

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## RoadRunner401

*Russia bombards Syrian rebels near site of downed Russian jet*

YAYLADAGI, Turkey (Reuters) - Russian forces launched a heavy bombardment against insurgent-held areas in Syria's Latakia province on Wednesday, near where a Russian warplane had been shot down by Turkey the day before, rebels and a monitoring group said.

At least 12 air strikes hit Latakia's northern countryside as pro-government forces clashed with fighters from al Qaeda's Nusra Front and Turkmen insurgents in the Jabal Akrad and Jabal Turkman areas, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.

A Turkmen commander said missiles fired from Russian warships in the Mediterranean were also hitting the area, as well as heavy artillery shelling.

Hassan Haj Ali, the head of Liwa Suqour al-Jabal, a rebel group operating in western Syria, also said there were fierce battles in the area, with Russian aircraft supporting pro-government forces.

Turkey on Tuesday shot down a Russian warplane that it said had entered Turkish airspace, something denied by Moscow.

It crashed in the Jabal Turkman area, the Observatory said.

A Turkish military source said Turkish troops on the border were on alert on Wednesday after the bombardment began.

Russia began intervening in the Syrian civil war on Sept. 30 in support of President Bashar al-Assad, whose forces are fighting insurgents backed by regional powers including Turkey.

The Russian air raids, launched ostensibly to target Islamic State, have mostly hit other, foreign-backed rebel groups, the United States says.

There have been strikes for several weeks in Latakia province, whose capital of the same name is Assad's coastal stronghold, but the Observatory said Wednesday's bombardments were particularly heavy.

Russia bombards Syrian rebels near site of downed Russian jet - Yahoo News Canada

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## cnleio

russiarussia said:


> Yeah, one of 2 Russian pilots shuts down by Turkey rescued, and back to airbase in Syria. And his health is out of danger.


The pilot died, but the navigator is rescured by Russian rescue team after one night in 2015.11.25 ... u should read latest news, Mr Putin said to award 'The Russian Hero medal' to ur men.



> The second pilot from the Russian SU-24 jet shot down by a Turkish fighter is alive and has been rescued by Russian forces in an overnight special operation, the defence minister has said.
> 
> "The operation was successful. The pilot is already at our base. He is alive and well," said Sergei Shoigu, the Russian defence minister, in comments carried by the TASS news agency.
> 
> "I want to thank all our guys, who worked at great risk throughout the night," he said.
> 
> "I have informed the commander in chief [Vladimir Putin] about the success of the operation. He asked me to pass on his personal thanks to everyone involved in this mission."
> 
> Source: Russian pilot rescued overnight by special forces

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## MertKaan

pher said:


> you should ask the same questions to your pakistan brothers why they shout so much to support you?


you know answer that _PAKISTANIS AND TURKS ARE BROTHERS_

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## jhungary

Wondering why mods allow such a derailing here. All the nuke talk, bomb the shit out of anyone. People behind the perfect protection of keyboard do love other killing each others.

@waz @Slav Defence maybe it's time to close this thread for clean up?

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## russiarussia

cnleio said:


> The pilot died, but the navigator is rescured by Russian rescue team after one night in 2015.11.25 ... u should read latest news, Mr Putin said to award The Russian Hero medal to ur men.



I read it, but i couldnt find the right words cuz im not good at english.

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## batmannow

pher said:


> you forget to add china to the left side of the equation, it is not fair. while we are relatively silent right now, we just buy our time. it will be on more than 5 years we will take the showdown with US, the rest of its pawn will begin to suffer.


Its better for China , to be the silent warrior as they are , yes sure in coming future China will play big , & I wish them best .



Hakan said:


> Notice how Iranians, Chinese, and Russia fan boys haven't even been accusing U.S or Europe of supporting ISIS for at least one year now. They focus all attention on Turkey. They must be planning something....


Turkey is where all the support logestics are been sent to ISIS, & it needs to realise that its wrong ?

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## Ankit Kumar

Aslan said:


> Don't lecture s on protocol when ur own airforce shot down a navy transporter not even a bomber an un armed plane flying within pakistan. So yes protocols.



It was a ASW aircraft which could very well spy. 
And the pakis took India from ICJ to UN. Spent millions. But every time the result was favourable to us. This is enough to prove that the aircraft was flying deep inside Indian territory and tried to escape when our interceptors tried to land them down. 

The case was taken to UN and ICJ, and we didn't require to pay a single penny to them.


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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

pher said:


> actully we did. we just handed over russia $15billions in the name of pre-payments oil import last week, and we will be happy to help more if neccesary.



Than you are realy stupid to help warcriminal like Putin who invaded Ukraine with Russian terrorists and started to attack moderate syrian rebels who did fight for democrasy in Syria.

Please be also carefull, rothshild Family made you and they can easily brake you apart again.


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## pher

MertKaan said:


> you know answer that _PAKISTANIS AND TURKS ARE BROTHERS_


you have yours, we have ours. is it hard to understand?

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## manlion

HAKIKAT said:


> 7 We were not like European colonists, we tried our best to provide security to the local population and get assimilated. Our fighting skills and motivations did the job. If you don't have it unfortunately you get enslaved. Compare with the current situation and its visible like daylight.



did Turks security extend to the 2 million Armenians who were living under the Ottoman Empire from 1915 - 1923 ?

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## SiCiSi

RoadRunner401 said:


> *Russia bombards Syrian rebels near site of downed Russian jet*
> 
> YAYLADAGI, Turkey (Reuters) - Russian forces launched a heavy bombardment against insurgent-held areas in Syria's Latakia province on Wednesday, near where a Russian warplane had been shot down by Turkey the day before, rebels and a monitoring group said.
> 
> At least 12 air strikes hit Latakia's northern countryside as pro-government forces clashed with fighters from al Qaeda's Nusra Front and Turkmen insurgents in the Jabal Akrad and Jabal Turkman areas, the British-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said.
> 
> A Turkmen commander said missiles fired from Russian warships in the Mediterranean were also hitting the area, as well as heavy artillery shelling.
> 
> Hassan Haj Ali, the head of Liwa Suqour al-Jabal, a rebel group operating in western Syria, also said there were fierce battles in the area, with Russian aircraft supporting pro-government forces.
> 
> Turkey on Tuesday shot down a Russian warplane that it said had entered Turkish airspace, something denied by Moscow.
> 
> It crashed in the Jabal Turkman area, the Observatory said.
> 
> A Turkish military source said Turkish troops on the border were on alert on Wednesday after the bombardment began.
> 
> Russia began intervening in the Syrian civil war on Sept. 30 in support of President Bashar al-Assad, whose forces are fighting insurgents backed by regional powers including Turkey.
> 
> The Russian air raids, launched ostensibly to target Islamic State, have mostly hit other, foreign-backed rebel groups, the United States says.
> 
> There have been strikes for several weeks in Latakia province, whose capital of the same name is Assad's coastal stronghold, but the Observatory said Wednesday's bombardments were particularly heavy.
> 
> Russia bombards Syrian rebels near site of downed Russian jet - Yahoo News Canada



The Turkmen signed their own death warrant.

This is what happens when you act without thinking about the consequences. Now all of them and their families have to die.

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## pher

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Than you are realy stupid to help warcriminal like Putin who invaded Ukraine with Russian terrorists and started to attack moderate syrian rebels who did fight for democrasy in Syria.
> 
> Please be also carefull, rothshild Family made you and they can easily brake you apart again.


haha, keep those joking story for yourself. we are doer, not talker.

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## Sanchez

SiCiSi said:


> The Turkmen signed their own death warrant.
> 
> This is what happens when you act without thinking about the consequences. Now all of them and their families have to die.



Go Russia! Kill all those rats who shot at the parachuting pilot!

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## Slav Defence

jhungary said:


> Wondering why mods allow such a derailing here. All the nuke talk, bomb the shit out of anyone. People behind the perfect protection of keyboard do love other killing each others.
> 
> @waz @Slav Defence maybe it's time to close this thread for clean up?


Been deleting posts and handing out negative ratings for sometime.Also,we have issued warnings and banned few.


regards

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Than you are realy stupid to help warcriminal like Putin who invaded Ukraine with Russian terrorists and started to attack moderate syrian rebels who did fight for democrasy in Syria.
> 
> Please be also carefull, rothshild Family made you and they can easily brake you apart again.


Democracy sht , what gains Iraq or Libya or even Afghanistan got after being pushed into stupid dividing formula called democracy from NATO & its stupid allies ?
Oh , from alqaeda to ISIS ,that's what is the gift of so called democracy ?
Iraq & Libya were far better under their dictatorships , then this Holocausted democracy ?

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## Kamil_baku

surya kiran said:


> I never thought I would say this. But @Beast is right. Believe me, the Chinese are way more powerful than your armed forces. But, they do not go into a shooting match. They use their brains, unlike the Turks here who seem to be using their balls. You do not show your balls to your opponent and then give a reason to cut it off. You just did that.


If we say things, we mean it! Turkish people are well-known for owning their words! 
Chine announce ADIZ and the next day US B52 fly over the areas .this is what i call barking  from Chinese side and you call it being smart? 
First of all, set your limits and simple announce it! It is not a Poker table to bluff. Probably, thats why US doesnt take Chine serious... They were building artificial islands and call it CHinese sea. What happened when US plane flied over and later sent the navy ship to 12 mile close?

Our honor means more than anything for us. Turkey said, Turkey did! Having balls means we got enough power to go into war against any country for our honor. But, seems like not all nations are like us. Thats the result that no answer from Russia...

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## as1mz

It would seem that the Russian Foreign Minister has denied the possibility of a war with Turkey.

No War with Turkey over Downing of Su-24 | Today in Pakistan

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## cnleio

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


>


*The Russia is the member of Top5 in UNSC and defeated NAZI Germany* ... How China become the BOSS of Russia ? Russia and China r the members of SCO and have the same interests, obviously we support them, they support us, it's just a win-win partnership.

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## jhungary

Slav Defence said:


> Been deleting posts and handing out negative ratings for sometime.Also,we have issued warnings and banned few.
> 
> 
> regards



probably need to close the thread and clean up, otherwise for every post you delete and lodge an infraction, 5 similar post would be posted by then...

Don't get me wrong, It was funny to see how people with absolutely no relation to the incident keep acting like an arse and advocating violent. But that also have a boundary

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## RayOfLight

*Downed in 17 seconds? Where Turkey’s story of Su-24 violating airspace just doesn’t add up — RT News*
*Flawed rules of engagement*
So far the incident seems to boil down to Turkey either violating its rules of engagement or having an extremely aggressive approach to foreign warplanes. The use of force is justified in defending national borders, but usually a clear and imminent threat is required to resort to such drastic measures.

Russia and Turkey are (or at least were) friendly nations and the Turkish military would be justified in expecting that any unidentified plane approaching Turkey from Syria could be Russian. In mere minutes it decided that the “unidentified” warplanes posed a threat to Turkey and responded with lethal force. Over a 17-second violation, according to Turkey.

Considering the short timeframe, the decision to fire that missile was likely taken even before the alleged violation took place.

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## Kyle Sun

SiCiSi said:


> The Turkmen signed their own death warrant.
> 
> This is what happens when you act without thinking about the consequences. Now all of them and their families have to die.



I believe Turk pilots will not like to patrol the border anymore.

Some one will shot down them by accident.

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## batmannow

jhungary said:


> probably need to close the thread and clean up, otherwise for every post you delete and lodge an infraction, 5 similar post would be posted by then...
> 
> Don't get me wrong, It was funny to see how people with absolutely no relation to the incident keep acting like an arse and advocating violent. But that also have a boundary


Nice dictation !


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## pher

Kamil_baku said:


> If we say things, we mean it! Turkish people are well-known for owning their words!
> Chine announce ADIZ and the next day US B52 fly over the areas .this is what i call barking  from Chinese side and you call it being smart?
> First of all, set your limits and simple announce it! It is not a Poker table to bluff. Probably, thats why US doesnt take Chine serious... They were building artificial islands and call it CHinese sea. What happened when US plane flied over and later sent the navy ship to 12 mile close?
> 
> Our honor means more than anything for us. Turkey said, Turkey did! Having balls means we got enough power to go into war against any country for our honor. But, seems like not all nations are like us. Thats the result that no answer from Russia...


wow, even US will feel embarssing to be bragged such by its pawn. remember, US airlines were first batch to obey our rules of ADIZ, and US' junk navy ship was running like a jumpy rabbit in the sea after being chasing off by our boat, it is actually a humiliation for a bragged super power US.

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## A.Muqeet khan

Arsalan said:


> Its so disgusting to see significant number of posters cheering this incident. If anyone thinks that it will be fun to watch this whole saga blown into an all out war, i have yet to come across a fool bigger than him. Any all out war between the forces of this magnitude will mean end of world as we know today.
> Let us just wait and pray things get handled sensible and things remain under control as any sane man would want to.
> 
> *Cut the childish cheering and jeering, nothing good comes out of war and from a war of this potential magnitude, nothing (either good or bad) will come out at all. *



and nothing will happen if we cheer or not. our cheering does not impact the political decisions so it doesn't matter what we do. We can throw tantrums all day long and Olivia Wilde will not kiss jennifer lopez , these are fu****g countries you are talking about.


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## faisal6309



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## SiCiSi

This is also why I miss our direct dealings with the Americans.

They have tact, style, panache, critical thinking and problem solving skills and a think a 100 times before acting. They know how to plan and execute decisions that have benefits decades from now. They know how to play this game.

The turks and arabs just go into rage mode and get over excited after sitting on American lap for too long. We can see what they will do before they know themselves and its so boring.

This is why the Americans and Russians secretly respect each other. We are two of a kind.No one else in the world plays geo politics better.



manlion said:


> did Turks security extend to the 2 million Armenians who were living under the Ottoman Empire from 1915 - 1923 ?


Beautiful reply.

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## PatriotLover

Can somebody confirm what I hear:

*TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY*


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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> Can somebody confirm what I hear:
> 
> *TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY*


They can do whatever they want , but it won't bring any good to their terrorist proxies ISIS in sirya , there Russia will fry them in cold , I'm sure about it .

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## notorious_eagle

PatriotLover said:


> Can somebody confirm what I hear:
> 
> *TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY*



Would not be surprised if they did

@Abingdonboy 

Didn't i tell you, the Russians will mercilessly attack the Turksmen Militia. So far they have carried out heavy aerial bombardments and cruise missile strikes. I am willing to bet this will be followed up by another Ground Offensive to exploit the weakened defenses of the Militas. The Turkish Planners miscalculated here, instead of scaring off Russia they have largely given the Russians a blank cheque to bombard as they please. The deployment of S-400 is a gamer changer IMO, as it shields the SAAF from any threat from the Air.

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## Sanchez

PatriotLover said:


> Can somebody confirm what I hear:
> 
> *TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY*



Did Erdogan not send out forces to rprotect his turkic relatives?

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## fox 2

PatriotLover said:


> Can somebody confirm what I hear:
> 
> *TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY*


Bullshit.


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## Oublious

Chinese fanboys on tour ahahahah....

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## Gazprom

PatriotLover said:


> Can somebody confirm what I hear:
> 
> *TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY*



Yes its true. Russia has stepped up strikes five fold.


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## pher

Sanchez said:


> Did Erdogan not send out forces to rprotect his turkic relatives?


I bet he couldn't dare to do it even lend him 10 balls.

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## PatriotLover

MULTIPLE EXPLOSIONS IN ANKARA!!!

Fears of multiple explosions in Ankara, police on alert, reports of injuries & panic — RT News

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## -SINAN-

PatriotLover said:


> TURKEY JUST RAISED THEIR ALERT TO FULL ALERT ON THE SYRIAN BORDER IN RESPONSE TO FEROCITY OF RUSSIAN BORDER STRIKES - TURKISH DEF MINISTRY



Not as a response to "Ferocity of Russian border strikes" but due to statement of the Russian leader. They increased patrolling aircraft in the Syrian border 18 from 16. Also deployed tanks and artillery near the border. If Russians tries to do something stupid again.

Turkmens also defeated Assad and Iranian forces in Turkmen mountain and regained control of the mountain. Seems like these guys are going to insist to learn it from the hard way.

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## M.AsfandYar

pher said:


> I bet he couldn't dare to do it even lend him 10 balls.


But he did dare now didnt he?

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## monitor

Hakan said:


> They can't attack anything without an extremely good reason. If they attack Turkey their Syria op is finished. The Turkish straits are closed to Russian war ships.


If they wants to enter Turkish strait forcefully can you defend yourself withoout NATO support?

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## scherz

‘Turkish jets gave us no warning before shooting’ – rescued pilot of downed Russian Su-24 — RT News

*‘Turkish jets gave us no warning before shooting’ – rescued pilot of downed Russian Su-24*

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## tugberksamur

RayOfLight said:


> Considering the short timeframe, the decision to fire that missile was likely taken even before the alleged violation took place.


You are wrong.Here is radar picture from turkey M(HH036180) shows when missile fired, M(HH037203) inside green box shows when missile hit

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## ultron

The surviving pilot says they did not fly over Turkey. The surviving pilot says they were attacked without warning.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669524838407651328

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669524798146375680

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## Siavash

Next Thanksgiving I will definitely have live Turkey!I will give it 10 warnings in Farsi to run and then butcher it! I promise!

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## slng

turks just give out free balls to ruskie. bad and bold step

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## scherz



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## Aslan

Ankit Kumar said:


> It was a ASW aircraft which could very well spy.
> And the pakis took India from ICJ to UN. Spent millions. But every time the result was favourable to us. This is enough to prove that the aircraft was flying deep inside Indian territory and tried to escape when our interceptors tried to land them down.
> 
> The case was taken to UN and ICJ, and we didn't require to pay a single penny to them.


First of all its pakistanis so kindly be civil. 

Secondly I was not talking about what happened latter. My reply was to the point. And if u have it in u to justify what ur country did with a plane that u considered what ever. Then u don't have the right to criticize turkey for what they did.

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## madmusti

So as you all make Critic on Turkey where was you all guys when they have dawned our F4 Phantom ?

June 2012 interception of Turkish aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia





They had use this System and it was Russians who are used them, neither it was never officially but Syrians was not capable during that time to use this System.

So it´s ok when turkish Jet is dawned but when a russian jet get´s dawned it is terrible ? 

You are all have preconceptions against Turkey & turkish People, neither was one of you in Turkey or take really part in a Discussion about the Syrian Conflict.

You are just sitting behind your Monitor and trying to be a Keyboard hero for ? 

Just coming with Arguments from the rumors of the stupid Media Agencies that has some might over some of you here, your are in my eyes very poor.

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## BordoEnes

AFP Photo
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Moscow was not planning on going to war against Turkey after Ankara's downing of a Russian fighter jet. 

"We do not plan to go to war with Turkey, our attitude toward the Turkish people has not changed," Lavrov told reporters after speaking with his Turkish counterpart, but warned that Moscow would "seriously re-evaluate" its ties with Ankara.

Lavrov also backed a proposal by French leader Francois Hollande to close off the Syria-Turkey border to prevent the flow of terroristscrossing the frontier. 

"I think this is a good proposal and that tomorrow President Hollande will talk to us in greater detail about it. We would be ready to seriously consider the necessary measures for this," Lavrov told journalists ahead of Hollande's visit to Moscow Thursday. 

On Tuesday, Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane for violating its airspace, despite the fact that it has warned the jet 10 times within a five-minute period.

Two Russian pilots parachuted to the ground after the shooting down, and according to Russian military spokesman General Sergei Rudskoi, one had been killed by fire from the ground while Shoigu said the other had been freed by Russian and Syrian special forces and is now at a Russian airbase.


Russia not planning to wage war against Turkey, Russian For. Minister says - Daily Sabah

Told you all, Russia aint gonna do jack shitt. Some people are really overestimating Russia's capabilities here.



slng said:


> turks just give out free balls to ruskie. bad and bold step



Maybe, but this can go both ways remember that. If Russia dares to retaliate it would simply play into Turkey's hands.

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## scherz

madmusti said:


> So as you all make Critic on Turkey where was you all guys when they have dawned our F4 Phantom ?
> 
> June 2012 interception of Turkish aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> your are in my eyes very poor.


Wiki:
*At this point, the aircraft violated Syrian airspace, and flew around for five minutes within its airspace.* A Turkish radar base controlling the flight warned the RF-4E to change its course immediately and leave that airspace. At 11:47, it left Syrian airspace and took course towards north in direction Hatay ascending to FL030. During its violation and shortly after, the aircraft received no warning or admonishment at all from Syrian military authorities. The pilots changed their course once again into Mediterranean Sea in order to proceed with their mission of radar testing. At 11:50, the pilots asked the Turkish radar base for assistance on route information in order not to cause any other airspace violation. The aircraft was flying in international airspace visible on radar screen until 12:02

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## PatriotLover

BordoEnes said:


> Told you all, Russia aint gonna do jack shitt. Some people are really overestimating Russia's capabilities here.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but this can go both ways remember that. If Russia dares to retaliate it would simply play into Turkey's hands.



I agree, thats why I think we will make the correct decision by siding with Turkey rather than Russia or China in this case. Long term we will find favour in NATO thru Turkey.

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## matmat26



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## haman10

BordoEnes said:


> AFP Photo
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Moscow was not planning on going to war against Turkey after Ankara's downing of a Russian fighter jet.
> 
> "We do not plan to go to war with Turkey, our attitude toward the Turkish people has not changed," Lavrov told reporters after speaking with his Turkish counterpart, but warned that Moscow would "seriously re-evaluate" its ties with Ankara.
> 
> Lavrov also backed a proposal by French leader Francois Hollande to close off the Syria-Turkey border to prevent the flow of terroristscrossing the frontier.
> 
> "I think this is a good proposal and that tomorrow President Hollande will talk to us in greater detail about it. We would be ready to seriously consider the necessary measures for this," Lavrov told journalists ahead of Hollande's visit to Moscow Thursday.
> 
> On Tuesday, Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane for violating its airspace, despite the fact that it has warned the jet 10 times within a five-minute period.
> 
> Two Russian pilots parachuted to the ground after the shooting down, and according to Russian military spokesman General Sergei Rudskoi, one had been killed by fire from the ground while Shoigu said the other had been freed by Russian and Syrian special forces and is now at a Russian airbase.
> 
> 
> Russia not planning to wage war against Turkey, Russian For. Minister says - Daily Sabah
> 
> Told you all, Russia aint gonna do jack shitt. Some people are really overestimating Russia's capabilities here.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but this can go both ways remember that. If Russia dares to retaliate it would simply play into Turkey's hands.


Well putin called you guys a rabid dog just a couple of hours ago .....

And asked US to close the dog's mouth .

He also said that revenge is what turkey will receive. 

Donno man . Hope you're right

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## PatriotLover

matmat26 said:


>



I would love to see some of those weapons in Pakistani hands.


----------



## damm1t

scherz said:


> Dont be arrogant. Russia only need half day to wipe out all turkish airbases and air defence systems. Thats fact.
> Know where your place is.
> Dont act like a male teenager with too much testosteron. This is the real world in bigger dimension not in your street.



I am not talking about a total war but I make things clear for you, according to new RoE announced in 2012, every military asset heading to Turkish soil and airspace will be treated as enemy/military target. Again saying, if the message is not delivered, russians can test it out.

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## PatriotLover

damm1t said:


> I am not talking about a total war but I make things clear for you, according to new RoE announced in 2012, every military asset heading to Turkish soil and airspace will be treated as enemy/military target. Again saying, if the message is not delivered, russians can test it out.



Turkey has shown the world that it has courage and this is what matters!

We respect people with courage. I have spoken with many Pakistani and all of them support Turkey! Keep on showing the world what being Muslim means! Proud of you all!



haman10 said:


> Well putin called you guys a rabid dog just a couple of hours ago .....
> 
> And asked US to close the dog's mouth .
> 
> He also said that revenge is what turkey will receive.
> 
> Donno man . Hope you're right



Putin can only talk, Turkey actually pulled the trigger!

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## damm1t

scherz said:


> Wiki:
> *At this point, the aircraft violated Syrian airspace, and flew around for five minutes within its airspace.* A Turkish radar base controlling the flight warned the RF-4E to change its course immediately and leave that airspace. At 11:47, it left Syrian airspace and took course towards north in direction Hatay ascending to FL030. During its violation and shortly after, the aircraft received no warning or admonishment at all from Syrian military authorities. The pilots changed their course once again into Mediterranean Sea in order to proceed with their mission of radar testing. At 11:50, the pilots asked the Turkish radar base for assistance on route information in order not to cause any other airspace violation. The aircraft was flying in international airspace visible on radar screen until 12:02



1- Our jet hit without warning,
2- Jet hit in international airspace.
3- Jet was armless.
4- Jet was no threat for nobody and it had a test mission.

on the other hand,

1- Russian jet had been warned many times,
2- It was shot in Turkish airspace,
3- Jet was armed and dangerous.
4- It was a threat and bombing Turkmens 300 km from ISIS away.

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## Hypersonicmissiles

BordoEnes said:


> AFP Photo
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Moscow was not planning on going to war against Turkey after Ankara's downing of a Russian fighter jet.
> 
> "We do not plan to go to war with Turkey, our attitude toward the Turkish people has not changed," Lavrov told reporters after speaking with his Turkish counterpart, but warned that Moscow would "seriously re-evaluate" its ties with Ankara.
> 
> Lavrov also backed a proposal by French leader Francois Hollande to close off the Syria-Turkey border to prevent the flow of terroristscrossing the frontier.
> 
> "I think this is a good proposal and that tomorrow President Hollande will talk to us in greater detail about it. We would be ready to seriously consider the necessary measures for this," Lavrov told journalists ahead of Hollande's visit to Moscow Thursday.
> 
> On Tuesday, Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane for violating its airspace, despite the fact that it has warned the jet 10 times within a five-minute period.
> 
> Two Russian pilots parachuted to the ground after the shooting down, and according to Russian military spokesman General Sergei Rudskoi, one had been killed by fire from the ground while Shoigu said the other had been freed by Russian and Syrian special forces and is now at a Russian airbase.
> 
> 
> Russia not planning to wage war against Turkey, Russian For. Minister says - Daily Sabah
> 
> Told you all, Russia aint gonna do jack shitt. Some people are really overestimating Russia's capabilities here.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but this can go both ways remember that. If Russia dares to retaliate it would simply play into Turkey's hands.



Russia is going to kill all your Turkmen and the S-400 will make sure the job gets done without problems.

Let's see if Turkey can follow through again to shoot down Russian jets while they give a quick transfer to hell for your Turkmen.



PatriotLover said:


> I agree, thats why I think we will make the correct decision by siding with Turkey rather than Russia or China in this case. Long term we will find favour in NATO thru Turkey.



Pakistan don't even have a proper military without China. You got nukes because of China.

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## matmat26

Russia, Muslims bombed civilians in Aleppo.




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=837258436391665

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Prepare for big pain Turks.

@all take your popcorn. LOL


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## Ankit Kumar

Aslan said:


> First of all its pakistanis so kindly be civil.
> 
> Secondly I was not talking about what happened latter. My reply was to the point. And if u have it in u to justify what ur country did with a plane that u considered what ever. Then u don't have the right to criticize turkey for what they did.



On the naming issue. My apologies, it was my ignorance of the insulting word. 

And here's why Turkeys case cannot be applied to India's case. 

1. The incident happened just after 1 month of 1999 Kargil war Between India and Pakistan, so the tensions were definitely too high. 

Has there been a recent war between Turkey and Russia? 

( Also after that incident. Many more violations took place but we handled them with extra care. )

2. The aircraft , in India's case was on a mission which openly went against India. I.e, Surveillance of our Radar installations. And this has also been admitted by Pakistan Information Minister that the aircraft was on a surveillance mission. 

Was the Su24 going against Turkeys Interest? (I don't think so, untill Turkey supports ISIS) 

3.As per as agreement signed between Pakistan and India, in case of a military aircraft flying in near radius of10km of disputed areas ,if intercepted can be forced to land by escorting . 

But the Pakistani aircraft made abrupt maneuvers to dash back into its airspace and resulting a missile shot in WVR. 

NOW , in this case, the aircraft was shot from BVR, without giving proper warnigs, without trying to escort them out. 
Is the case similar by any means?

@Abingdonboy Sir do you think 2 incidents are comparable?


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## PatriotLover

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Pakistan don't even have a proper military without China. You got nukes because of China.



Please, that is not true. Our scientists have been developing nuke for a long time. We also have NATO technology in our military. But for the Chinese weapons, we will always be thankful to you.

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## Siavash

PatriotLover said:


> Turkey has shown the world that it has courage and this is what matters!
> 
> We respect people with courage. I have spoken with many Pakistani and all of them support Turkey! Keep on showing the world what being Muslim means! Proud of you all!
> 
> 
> 
> Putin can only talk, Turkey actually pulled the trigger!


There is a distinction between courage and barbarism! Those without culture and understanding of religion may not distinguish it but the world does. If it was not because of NATO, Turkey would not have the courage! As for the Muslim world it is right now a Cluster Fukc! Nothing to be proud of!

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## Hurshid Celebi

matmat26 said:


>



Nice Sabra's to Syria. Leopards are already in KILIS. Seems we prepare to kick the Russkies in their a..ss


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## Abdullah S.

SiCiSi said:


> Yeah we dont really care. Turkmen will be punished. They will understand when they hold pieces of their children and women in their arms. Then get bombed again.
> 
> This is what happens when you dont understand the balance of power.


Try to spare the women and children mate. It not their fault.


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## Beast

matmat26 said:


> Russia, Muslims bombed civilians in Aleppo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=837258436391665


Turkey shall send your mighty altay tank and army into syria to support your turkmen brothers. 



Hurshid Celebi said:


> Nice Sabra's to Syria. Leopards are already in KILIS. Seems we prepare to kick the Russkies in their a..ss


Very good. Invade syria and attack the Russian/syria/Iranian guards

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## PatriotLover

Siavash said:


> There is a distinction between courage and barbarism! Those without culture and understanding of religion may not distinguish it but the world does. If it was not because of NATO, Turkey would not have the courage! As for the Muslim world it is right now a Cluster Fukc! Nothing to be proud of!


You cannot calls the Turks, people without culture. 

What I am proud of is that Turkey showed the all mighty Russia, that they should not provoke them. After shooting down the SU24, now they increase the F16 patrols! Whole world has respect for people who stand up for themselves.

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## Beast

PatriotLover said:


> You cannot calls the Turks, people without culture.
> 
> What I am proud of is that Turkey showed the all mighty Russia, that they should not provoke them. After shooting down the SU24, now they increase the F16 patrols! Whole world has respect for people who stand up for themselves.


YOu see how american fan the Turkish into action. They will watch one side with popcorns how wolf and bear fight

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## matmat26

This war is a war of Muslims. China 10 Muslims were burned alive yesterday. Russia Aleppo and killing Muslims in Crimea.

Killing the Crimean Tatars.

They say in Islam and with Islam ..

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## Hurshid Celebi

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Prepare for big pain Turks.
> 
> @all take your popcorn. LOL


Russkies will get a strong kick a..ss. Remember my words and write it down. Are you naive ? Turkey planned long before all options including Nuclear Deterrence. Thank you Pakistan our long lasting cooperation and brotherhood makes Russkies paralyzed.

Now they can try to destroy the globe with Nukes or bilogical chaos. Those poor drunken types.

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## Siavash

PatriotLover said:


> You cannot calls the Turks, people without culture.
> 
> What I am proud of is that Turkey showed the all mighty Russia, that they should not provoke them. After shooting down the SU24, now they increase the F16 patrols! Whole world has respect for people who stand up for themselves.


 Seems you don't comprehend very well. You said Pakistanis that you talked to support Turkeys action. Basically the text was referring to those who support this action including the Pakistani's who do! I don't argue with idiots this is my last reply to you! Just couldn't resist answering this one!

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## PatriotLover

Beast said:


> YOu see how american fan the Turkish into action. They will watch one side with popcorns how wolf and bear fight



Russia just said there will be no military consequences for Turkey. THEY SURRENDERED. Very weak!



matmat26 said:


> This war is a war of Muslims. China 10 Muslims were burned alive yesterday. Russia Aleppo and killing Muslims in Crimea.
> 
> Killing the Crimean Tatars.
> 
> They say in Islam and with Islam ..



We know this sad incident. I have never heard of anyone using flamethrowers to kill other humans. I think this is one reason, why many Pakistanis are moving over to support Turkey.

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## monitor




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## Juicer

scherz said:


> ‘Turkish jets gave us no warning before shooting’ – rescued pilot of downed Russian Su-24 — RT News
> 
> *‘Turkish jets gave us no warning before shooting’ – rescued pilot of downed Russian Su-24*



so , that why they didn't use any Chef and Fillers !?


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## batmannow

BordoEnes said:


> AFP Photo
> Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said Wednesday that Moscow was not planning on going to war against Turkey after Ankara's downing of a Russian fighter jet.
> 
> "We do not plan to go to war with Turkey, our attitude toward the Turkish people has not changed," Lavrov told reporters after speaking with his Turkish counterpart, but warned that Moscow would "seriously re-evaluate" its ties with Ankara.
> 
> Lavrov also backed a proposal by French leader Francois Hollande to close off the Syria-Turkey border to prevent the flow of terroristscrossing the frontier.
> 
> "I think this is a good proposal and that tomorrow President Hollande will talk to us in greater detail about it. We would be ready to seriously consider the necessary measures for this," Lavrov told journalists ahead of Hollande's visit to Moscow Thursday.
> 
> On Tuesday, Turkey shot down a Russian Su-24 warplane for violating its airspace, despite the fact that it has warned the jet 10 times within a five-minute period.
> 
> Two Russian pilots parachuted to the ground after the shooting down, and according to Russian military spokesman General Sergei Rudskoi, one had been killed by fire from the ground while Shoigu said the other had been freed by Russian and Syrian special forces and is now at a Russian airbase.
> 
> 
> Russia not planning to wage war against Turkey, Russian For. Minister says - Daily Sabah
> 
> Told you all, Russia aint gonna do jack shitt. Some people are really overestimating Russia's capabilities here.
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe, but this can go both ways remember that. If Russia dares to retaliate it would simply play into Turkey's hands.


They got what the needed , which is total air suspension from , allied air forces thanks to turkeys emotional jumping in ?
Rest in peace , all of proxies in sirya !
& that's good for world peace against terrorists of all kinds ?

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

China and Russia will gang bang turkey now.



Hurshid Celebi said:


> Russkies will get a strong kick a..ss. Remember my words and write it down. Are you naive ? Turkey planned long before all options including Nuclear Deterrence. Thank you Pakistan our long lasting cooperation and brotherhood makes Russkies paralyzed.
> 
> Now they can try to destroy the globe with Nukes or bilogical chaos. Those poor drunken types.



You are the naiv one. This is no joke, no staged war like sakarya.

This is your extinction.


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## damm1t

I am afraid we are trying to deal with 15 years old kids.. what a waste of time..

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## scherz

damm1t said:


> 1- Our jet hit without warning,
> 2- Jet hit in international airspace.
> 3- Jet was armless.
> 4- Jet was no threat for nobody and it had a test mission.
> 
> on the other hand,
> 
> 1- Russian jet had been warned many times,
> 2- It was shot in Turkish airspace,
> 3- Jet was armed and dangerous.
> 4- It was a threat and bombing Turkmens 300 km from ISIS away.



1- Our jet hit without warning, - sorry that pilot died.
2- Jet hit in international airspace. In Syria.
3- Jet was armless.(How could they know=???)
4- Jet was no threat for nobody and it had a test mission. (How could they know?? Why test in others space?!

Turkey is supporting terrorists if you see bombing Turkmen Terrorists as a threat against turkish interrests.

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## batmannow

monitor said:


>


All of that posted data , can't do anything in case of Georgia whole NATO was just looking at Russia taking out Georgia ?

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## PatriotLover

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Thank you Pakistan our long lasting cooperation and brotherhood makes Russkies paralyzed.
> 
> Now they can try to destroy the globe with Nukes or bilogical chaos. Those poor drunken types.



Dont worry my friend, we already showed the Russians onces who is boss, we have experience with humiliating them. 

Turkey is our ally, our brother. We stand together in this fight.



batmannow said:


> All of that posted data , can't do anything in case of Georgia whole NATO was just looking at Russia taking out Georgia ?



Georgia is not NATO.

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## madmusti

@scherz ach komm hör auf deine Lügen zu vebreiteten du selbsternannter Experte, der wie es wohl aussieht, sehr leicht von den Medien beinflusst ist.


BTW Guys the know-how for T-LORAMIDS is coming :

Moscow to deploy S-400 defense missile system to Khmeimim airbase in Syria — RT News

NATO want to know which capabilities this System have. <----------- For the Ones with conspiracy theory.

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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> Turkey has shown the world that it has courage and this is what matters!
> 
> We respect people with courage. I have spoken with many Pakistani and all of them support Turkey! Keep on showing the world what being Muslim means! Proud of you all!
> 
> 
> 
> Putin can only talk, Turkey actually pulled the trigger!


Don't speak on behalf of all Pakistanis cause massive majority of Pakistanis , don't like terrorists of any kind , be it alqeada or ISIS which Turkey is trying to support now ?

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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> Dont worry my friend, we already showed the Russians onces who is boss, we have experience with humiliating them.
> 
> Turkey is our ally, our brother. We stand together in this fight.
> 
> 
> 
> Georgia is not NATO.


Sure NATO is not NATO too against Russia it all kids ?

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## Aslan

Ankit Kumar said:


> On the naming issue. My apologies, it was my ignorance of the insulting word.
> 
> And here's why Turkeys case cannot be applied to India's case.
> 
> 1. The incident happened just after 1 month of 1999 Kargil war Between India and Pakistan, so the tensions were definitely too high.
> 
> Has there been a recent war between Turkey and Russia?
> 
> ( Also after that incident. Many more violations took place but we handled them with extra care. )
> 
> 2. The aircraft , in India's case was on a mission which openly went against India. I.e, Surveillance of our Radar installations. And this has also been admitted by Pakistan Information Minister that the aircraft was on a surveillance mission.
> 
> Was the Su24 going against Turkeys Interest? (I don't think so, untill Turkey supports ISIS)
> 
> 3.As per as agreement signed between Pakistan and India, in case of a military aircraft flying in near radius of10km of disputed areas ,if intercepted can be forced to land by escorting .
> 
> But the Pakistani aircraft made abrupt maneuvers to dash back into its airspace and resulting a missile shot in WVR.
> 
> NOW , in this case, the aircraft was shot from BVR, without giving proper warnigs, without trying to escort them out.
> Is the case similar by any means?
> 
> @Abingdonboy Sir do you think 2 incidents are comparable?


The Turkish Syrian border is way more complicated the pakistan india border. 
The Syrian air def shot down a Turkish plane in 2012 and since then there had been clear instructions to shoot down any intruders from that border. The Russians didn't help themselves when they had a lock on the turks a month or so ago for more then 5 minutes. And they were told by the turks that it will not be tolerated again. And then one side blinked. 

I would lay the blame on the Russians too for acting irrationally.

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## damm1t

scherz said:


> 1- Our jet hit without warning, - sorry that pilot died.
> 2- Jet hit in international airspace. In Syria.
> 3- Jet was armless.(How could they know=???)
> 4- Jet was no threat for nobody and it had a test mission. (How could they know?? Why test in others space?!



Seriously? I'm out.


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## scherz

madmusti said:


> @scherz ach komm hör auf deine Lügen zu vebreiteten du selbsternannter Experte, der wie es wohl aussieht, sehr leicht von den Medien beinflusst ist.



HAHA schau dir mal deine türkische Mitmenschen an. Wenigstens glaube ich nicht bedingungslos an einem Buch.


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## farag

Most turks don't know they are the pawn in NATO not a real member, the boots on the ground for the western masters

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## PatriotLover

batmannow said:


> Don't speak on behalf of all Pakistanis cause massive majority of Pakistanis , don't like terrorists of any kind , be it alqeada or ISIS which Turkey is trying to support now ?



What terrorist, are you calling the Turkish airforce terrorists? Russia violated multiple times thier airforce! It was intended to humiliate, but they did not know what the Turks are made of.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

farag said:


> Most turks don't know they are the pawn in NATO not a real member, the boots on the ground for the western masters



What is a real NATO member? Please enlighten us with your mind-diarhea..


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## Azeri440

batmannow said:


> All of that posted data , can't do anything in case of Georgia whole NATO was just looking at Russia taking out Georgia ?



you mean that tiny country with 3 million population that didn't have anything to do with NATO? since they were never even in NATO

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## T-123456

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> ISIS and FSA dont follow Geneva Conventions.,...those animals machine gunned one of the pilots as he was helplessly floating to earth on parachute with no way to shoot back. That's some coward azz behaviour.


Bombing a Turkmen village where more then 600 died(women and children included) is following Geneva conventions?
Are you ok,ever heard of double standards?
What would you if you were one of them?


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## matmat26

Muslim terrorists are killing the paste per title. NOW AWAKENING time ..


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## surya kiran

Sinan said:


> Turkey raised it's F-16 patrol aircrafts in Syrian border to 18 from 16.... Keep on dreaming Putin fanboy.
> 
> 18 F-16 birden uçtu - Milliyet.com.tr
> 
> *To readers of this thread. Most of the Indian posters are doing nothing but lying in this thread.*



If somebody gives you an opinion, the person becomes a fanboy. No wonder you are in this mess, with this kind of logic.

Your country buddy. If the S400 goes live in Syria and Russian planes are in the air, no number of air combat patrols is going to help you. Even if you increase them to 50. If that S400 goes up, you will need to deal with an opponent , who is not looking to attack the ground rebels in Syria, but also TuAF in the air. That is a whole different level of aggression. The only way you will be able to do CAP without threats is to take out the S400. And that is going to take this to an all new level. 

Best way out, is to talk to the Russians and ensure this never happens again. Those S400s are beasts.

Now, coming to the economic aspects. You chaps depend on Russia for more than 50% f your gas requirements. What were you guys thinking? Do you realise what the economic implications of this are?

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## pher

monitor said:


>


you imply nato christian whites will fight die for turks? what weed are you smoking?

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

surya kiran said:


> If somebody gives you an opinion, the person becomes a fanboy. No wonder you are in this mess, with this kind of logic.
> 
> Your country buddy. If the S400 goes live in Syria and Russian planes are in the air, no number of air combat patrols is going to help you. Even if you increase them to 50. If that S400 goes up, you will need to deal with an opponent , who is not looking to attack the ground rebels in Syria, but also TuAF in the air. That is a whole different level of aggression. The only way you will be able to do CAP without threats is to take out the S400. And that is going to take this to an all new level.
> 
> Best way out, is to talk to the Russians and ensure this never happens again. Those S400s are beasts.



You don't seem to understand that Turks have green light from NATO to escalate this.


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## ultron

Russians burn Turkey flag

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## scherz

pher said:


> you imply nato christian whites will fight die for turks? what weed are you smoking?



White people are doing lots of stupid stuff recently. Wont surprise me...

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## BordoEnes

haman10 said:


> Well putin called you guys a rabid dog just a couple of hours ago .....
> 
> And asked US to close the dog's mouth .
> 
> He also said that revenge is what turkey will receive.
> 
> Donno man . Hope you're right



People are to much chest beating and are screaming empty threats. The fundemental reality of the situation is that Turkey still is a NATO member and that any retaliation involving military is completely out of the picture for Russia. Russia will most likely be looking for economical retalitation but even that is iffy, especcialy the energy sector. Russia already invested 3 Billion USD in Turkey to build a nuclear reactor and most of its trade involves around natural gas. If they cut the natural gas, it would cripple Turkey... in the short term. On the long term if would damage Russia's international image by Hurting innocent Turkish civilians and would ultimately lead Turkey to find alternatives, which there plentyfull of in the region such as Iran, Turkmenistan and Azerbadijan(just gonna cost some extra bucks ofcourse).

My guess it that they will arm the PKK terrorists and the Kurdish militants in Syria, but that really would hardly be a retaliation.

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## F117

Calling them Turkmen is hiding the truth, these are actually Turkish citizens, ex army, members of fascists organizations like the Grey Wolves, or Salafists. Real Turkmen have nothing to do with Turkey's proxy war against Russia.

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## xenon54 out

dadeechi said:


> This act has permanently closed Turkey's planned SCO *membership.*


Good, a SCO membership would reverse any progress regarding democracy in Turkey anyway.

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## Siavash

Ich dachte es ist nicht wahr aber, Herr Sigmar hat wirklich gesagt, dass:
Nach Flugzeugabschuss: Für Gabriel ist Türkei ein "unkalkulierbares" Risiko - DIE WELT

*The incalculable risk in the region is Ankara not Moscow!*

This is how NATO would be divided. At the end, people in the European Union would see Russia as someone fighting ISIS and Turkey as a country defending it and can not back Turkey in this. Specially that the memories of Ottoman atrocities is still alive and the Muslim nature of Turkey departs them further. This makes the division that sets back US policies in the region. Turkey didn't do herself any favor!

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## BordoEnes

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Russia is going to kill all your Turkmen and the S-400 will make sure the job gets done without problems.
> 
> Let's see if Turkey can follow through again to shoot down Russian jets while they give a quick transfer to hell for your Turkmen.
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan don't even have a proper military without China. You got nukes because of China.



You think some S-400 battaries are going to make a difference? In case you didnt notice the geographical location of Turkey and Syria, they are our neighbours. What good is a couple fighters jets, anti-air defence systems and some ground troops gonna do against the might of the entire Turkish army. Use your fvking brain for once.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

T-123456 said:


> Bombing a Turkmen village where more then 600 died(women and children included) is following Geneva conventions?
> Are you ok,ever heard of double standards?
> What would you if you were one of them?



Assad's forces have not been angels either but 2 wrongs dont make a right......if i were one of them i wouldnt machine gun a pilot who ejected and cant even defend himself at all, that is the most cowardly act ever and goes to show that all rebel groups (not just ISIS) play dirty as well (PKK and YPG too, they are opportunists)


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## PatriotLover

xenon54 said:


> Good, a SCO membership would reverse any progress regarding democracy in Turkey anyway.



SCO is not very significant in the world right now. And with India in it, it is another disfunctional organisation with no future.

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## F117

Siavash said:


> Ich dachte es ist nicht wahr aber, Herr Sigmar hat wirklich gesagt, dass:
> Nach Flugzeugabschuss: Für Gabriel ist Türkei ein "unkalkulierbares" Risiko - DIE WELT
> 
> *The incalculable risk in the region is Ankara not Moscow!*
> 
> This is how NATO would be divided. At the end, people in the European Union would see Russia as someone fighting ISIS and Turkey as a country defending it and can not back Turkey in this. Specially that the memories of Ottoman atrocities is still alive and the Muslim nature of Turkey departs them further. This makes the division that sets back US policies in the region. Turkey didn't do herself any favor!


Also, in the coming years right wing parties will come to power in Europe, due to various reasons, and most of them are pro Russia. Examples are PVV, UKIP, Front National, etc. This is bad news for Erdogan.

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## Juicer

Turkey shot down a Russian fighter and first thing they said was " We are in NATO " ... 

this is not act of power , this is act of cowardice ...

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## Hypersonicmissiles

BordoEnes said:


> You think some S-400 battaries are going to make a difference? In case you didnt notice the geographical location of Turkey and Syria, they are our neighbours. What good is a couple fighters jets, anti-air defence systems and some group troops gonna do against the *might of the entire Turkish army.* Use your fvking brain for once.



*LOL*

That's not an army, those are jihadis pretending to be an army.

S-400 WILL take out your ENTIRE air force.

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## xenon54 out

PatriotLover said:


> SCO is not very significant in the world right now. And with India in it, it is another disfunctional organisation with no future.


Even if it was, why should we enter a organisation which most of its members are oppressive states? We need to go forward not backwards.


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## Hypersonicmissiles

Juicer said:


> Turkey shot down a Russian fighter and first thing they said was " We are in NATO " ...
> 
> this is not act of power , *this is act of cowardice* ...



They are Turks, what else did you expect from them.

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## xenon54 out

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> *LOL*
> 
> That's not an army, those are jihadis pretending to be an army.
> 
> S-400 WILL take out your ENTIRE air force.


Waz, take care of this guy, he is insulting Turkish Army.


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## PatriotLover

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> They are Turks, what else did you expect from them.



They are cowards? They are the first military to destroy a Russian fighter aircraft for a long long time. Other than Pakistan which also destroyed a few.

Cowards are people who use flamethrowers.

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## pher

xenon54 said:


> Even if it was, why should we enter a organisation which most of its members are oppressive states? We need to go forward not backwards.


nobody asked you to, it is you beg to join after being insulted by west. now seems nobody treat you well.

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## Hypersonicmissiles

xenon54 said:


> Waz, take care of this guy, he is insulting Turkish Army.



LOL you don't have a problem insulting every other race especially Russians and Chinese.

But when we respond in kind, you Turks are the first to run away.

You have no idea how despised Turkey is in China. Chinese social media is 100% supporting Russia.

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## Azeri440

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> *LOL*
> 
> That's not an army, those are jihadis pretending to be an army.
> 
> S-400 WILL take out your ENTIRE air force.



Russian base in Syria is within the range of GPS guided artillery rockets , keep thinking S-400 is some invincible system 
it's still located near the border with Turkey and can be easily wiped out by regular artillery.

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## xenon54 out

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> LOL you don't have a problem insulting every other race especially Russians and Chinese.
> 
> But when we respond in kind, you Turks are the first to run away.


Show me one insult from me or shut up.



Hypersonicmissiles said:


> You have no idea how despised Turkey is in China. Chinese social media is 100% supporting Russia.


And who cares?

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## Hypersonicmissiles

PatriotLover said:


> They are cowards? They are the first military to destroy a Russian fighter aircraft!
> 
> Cowards are people who use flamethrowers.



Nah, China deals with terrorists exactly how they should be.
In fact, I think the CPC is way too kind to these terrorists.
When terrorists attack China, not a single muslim country ever give condolences including Pakistan.

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## BordoEnes

Russian retaliation will consist of these possible scenario's(And i am 100% that one of them will be correct atleast):

They will actively try to hunt down the person who killed the Russian pilots(Alparslan Celik) and so the public thirst for revenge will be settled.
Economical sanction. Turkey relies heavely on Russian natural gas(About half of Turkey's natural gas is Russian). This will also has repercussions on the Russians however.
They will intensify the bombing of the Turkmen and other FSA positions.
They will (in)directly support Turkish terrorist enemies such as PKK, DHKP-C, YPG and etc.
False flag operations in Turkey targeting either military facilities or civilians.
They are just gonna make empty threaths for domestic consumption(IOW, safe face)
They are gonna impose useless restrictions in Turkey, also for domestic consumption

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## pher

Azeri440 said:


> Russian base in Syria is within the range of GPS guided artillery rockets , keep thinking S-400 is some invincible system
> it's still located near the border with Turkey and can be easily wiped out by regular artillery.


then prepare to enjoy the showing of russia cruise missles, and if russian run out of its stock, china will be happy to lend some to them.

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## Hypersonicmissiles

Azeri440 said:


> Russian base in Syria is within the range of GPS guided artillery rockets , keep thinking S-400 is some invincible system
> it's still located near the border with Turkey and can be easily wiped out by regular artillery.



Russian air force will make sure the S-400 remains as invincible as ever and ready to wipe out the entire Turkish air force with its outdated F-16s LOL

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

@Hypersonicmissiles 

Is a weak female with phallus phantasy.

Dont take her serious. Chinese politicians fear Turkish Army reaching Uighurs and east turkestan.


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## xenon54 out

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> I care, I'm passionately anti-Turkish.


And who cares?

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## Hypersonicmissiles

pher said:


> then prepare to enjoy the showing of russia cruise missles, and if russian run out of its stock, china will be happy to lend some to them.



Maybe Turkey will catapult jihadi suicide bombers towards the S-400 LOL

Their military is too weak for a confrontation with mother Russia.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

BordoEnes said:


> Russian retaliation will consist of these possible scenario's(And i am 100% that one of them will be correct atleast):
> 
> They will actively try to hunt down the person who killed the Russian pilots(Alparslan Celik) and so the public thirst for revenge will be settled.
> Economical sanction. Turkey relies heavely on Russian natural gas(About half of Turkey's natural gas is Russian). This will also has repercussions on the Russians however.
> They will intensify the bombing of the Turkmen and other FSA positions.
> They will (in)directly support Turkish terrorist enemies such as PKK, DHKP-C, YPG and etc.
> False flag operations in Turkey targeting either military facilities or civilians.
> They are just gonna make empty threaths for domestic consumption(IOW, safe face)
> They are gonna impose useless restrictions in Turkey, also for domestic consumption



Alparslan Çelik is russias worst nightmare.


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## Hypersonicmissiles

xenon54 said:


> And who cares?



I do. I hope Russia kills every Turkmen terrorist near the border.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Chinese females hate turkish dick with passion in bed.

LOL


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## scherz

This thread is going total ridiculous. Makes no more sense to discuss here. Only trolls left here. Should close this...

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## Hypersonicmissiles

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Chinese females hate turkish dick with passion in bed.
> 
> LOL



It's so easy to wind you Turks up LOL

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## matmat26

Imam Hussein's martyrdom in Karbala alone leave descendants of the sender is trying to cut a single press of a lion today with the help of Moscow infidels


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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> What terrorist, are you calling the Turkish airforce terrorists? Russia violated multiple times thier airforce! It was intended to humiliate, but they did not know what the Turks are made of.


Isis are the terrorists which , turkey+ Israel + nato created & now wants to save from Russian + siryan forces ?
The boder areas of Turkey , with sirya been used to supply arms & ammo to ISIS terrorists fighting a terrorist war against lawfully siryan govt ?
Its just like TTp to Pakistan , & consider it , what if our F-16 was bombing the supply routes of TTp near afghan border & afghan air force hit our F- 16s ?
Soon , russia will close all the supply routes of the ISIS terrorists , & there supporters like KSA ,ISRAEL , & TURKEY won't be able to help them .
Russia is doing a great favour to kill these ISIS SOB s , who are terrorising world in the name of islam ?



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Chinese females hate turkish dick with passion in bed.
> 
> LOL


Watch your language !



matmat26 said:


> Imam Hussein's martyrdom in Karbala alone leave descendants of the sender is trying to cut a single press of a lion today with the help of Moscow infidels


Wow from where that comes ?
Or are you trying to tell us , ISIS is a gift of immam Hussein ?

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## PatriotLover

batmannow said:


> Isis are the terrorists which , turkey+ Israel + nato created & now wants to save from Russian + siryan forces ?
> The boder areas of Turkey , with sirya been used to supply arms & ammo to ISIS terrorists fighting a terrorist war against lawfully siryan govt ?
> Its just like TTp to Pakistan , & consider it , what if our F-16 was bombing the supply routes of TTp near afghan border & afghan air force hit our F- 16s ?
> Soon , russia will close all the supply routes of the ISIS terrorists , & there supporters like KSA ,ISRAEL , & TURKEY won't be able to help them .
> Russia is doing a great favour to kill these ISIS SOB s , who are terrorising world in the name of islam ?



I do not deny ISIS is terrorist, i would love it, if Russia bombed ISIS. Sadly Russia is not bombing ISIS but killing innocent civilians. See the video posted above. Moreover they harassed the Turkish AF and paid the price.


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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @Hypersonicmissiles
> 
> Is a weak female with phallus phantasy.
> 
> Dont take her serious. Chinese politicians fear Turkish Army reaching Uighurs and east turkestan.


Sure its about to visit mars too ?
My friend , you think Turkish army is sent by God ?
What happens why , still grecce holds Cyprus ,why great Turkish army couldn't take it back ?

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## Hypersonicmissiles

PatriotLover said:


> I do not deny ISIS is terrorist, i would love it, if Russia bombed ISIS. Sadly Russia is not bombing ISIS but killing innocent civilians. See the video posted above. Moreover they harassed the Turkish AF and paid the price.



Russia should continue to kill these 'innocent civilians', the whole world supports it.

They are 'innocent civilians' to terrorist sympathisers, but terrorists to the rest of the world.

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## matmat26

[QUOTE = "post GTM900: 7923294, üyesi: 166803"]. Ha ha Türkler artık kendi pantolonunu indirmesi af için yalvarıyor Rus güçlerinin önünde mastürbasyon olacak [/ QUOTE]


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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> I do not deny ISIS is terrorist, i would love it, if Russia bombed ISIS. Sadly Russia is not bombing ISIS but killing innocent civilians. See the video posted above. Moreover they harassed the Turkish AF and paid the price.


Sorry ,
Russians are doing great job , they are hitting all the terrorists , mostly ISIS ?
what you think Russia is in the favour of ISIS , the CIA made , ksa , israel ,Turkey & NATO supported killing mafia ?
Are you serious ?
Russia is just there because our big Muslim brothers are helping anti-islam forces to take out invade , another Islamic country just like Iraq & Libya ?
Why turkey ,NATO ,SAUDIS ,Americans are so much against Russia ?
Cause they know Russia will take ISIS out in a blink ,& their million dollar investment will go down into gutters ?

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## PatriotLover

GTM900 said:


> Ha ha Turks will now drop their pants and masturbate in front of Russian forces begging for forgiveness.



Get lost....



Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Russia should continue to kill these 'innocent civilians', the whole world supports it.
> 
> They are 'innocent civilians' to terrorist sympathisers, but terrorists to the rest of the world.



What are you talking about, there is enough pictures and videos of dead children and women online who were killed by Russian bombing. Are you calling them terrorists?

This reply to @batmannow also


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## pher

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Chinese females hate turkish dick with passion in bed.
> 
> LOL


this is open insulting, what are you going to do mod?

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## Hurshid Celebi

scherz said:


> HAHA schau dir mal deine türkische Mitmenschen an. Wenigstens glaube ich nicht bedingungslos an einem Buch.



@scherz 

Nik'in gibi "karikatürsün" yürü enseni trasini görelim. Write in English so that all can understand it Kommie



monitor said:


>



Quality counts not quantity


----------



## PatriotLover

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Who cares.




Exactly, you all dont care about the dead children and women who are dead because of Russia? Sadly, if you continue like this, China may lose Pakistan in the long run as an ally.

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## rockstar08

Its so stupid to see some Chinese and Iranian's are jumping like monkey's over this incident .. not even Russians are not that shouting for war as much as some Chinese and Iranian's ..
The world is already a shitty place and people here are chanting for another war between two nations .. 
Russians on the first place should never be crossing into Turkish Air space , and Turks should have shows some patience .. this kind of Incidents happen all over the world .. 
but in the End , neither Russia nor Turkey is stupid enough to Escalate the situation so ISIS can take advantage .. both countries are responsible nation and know how to deal with these situations ..

There wont be any War , as Russian FM has said in his statement today ..


@waz bro , kindly clean this thread ..and you might need to ban few members

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## farhan_9909

GTM900 said:


> Ha ha Turks will now drop their pants and masturbate in front of Russian forces begging for forgiveness.



Dear,they are not indians.They don't believe in give up concept

for more detail,please read my earlier posts about give up concept

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## PatriotLover

rockstar08 said:


> Its so stupid to see some Chinese and Iranian's are jumping like monkey's over this incident .. not even Russians are not that shouting for war as much as some Chinese and Iranian's ..
> 
> 
> 
> @waz bro , kindly clean this thread ..and you might need to ban few members



Today I lost faith in Pak-China friendship.

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## batmannow

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Russia should continue to kill these 'innocent civilians', the whole world supports it.
> 
> They are 'innocent civilians' to terrorist sympathisers, but terrorists to the rest of the world.


Russia is not America bombing hospitals in Afghanistan ?
Russia is more systematic & more clear to get marked terrorist targets so not many civilian casualties be found .
Russia has not have any stupid crusading military plans like , west .

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## SiCiSi

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Russian air force will make sure the S-400 remains as invincible as ever and ready to wipe out the entire Turkish air force with its outdated F-16s LOL



These people prove that they are beyond stupid. I mean, they dont even realize there is a nuclear submarine with 120 nuclear warheads near Syria and through their little stunt, they will be our first target in the event of an all out war.

They can fly American made planes? 

We can wipe out their entire history, culture, hopes and aspirations within minutes.

Some people really dont understand where the balance of power lies. I guess riding American penis for too long does that.

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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> Today I lost faith in Pak-China friendship.


Because they are not supporting the ISIS terrorits supporters ?

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## matmat26

Russian jets taking phosphorus and cluster bombs Aleppo Muslim civilians.


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## PatriotLover

batmannow said:


> Because they are not supporting the ISIS terrorits supporters ?



Again...I think we all agree ISIS is bad. I am talking about the innocent women children who are dying due to Russian bombings. And they claim there are no civilians there. They are carpet bombing there.

Are you claiming those little children who died are ISIS killers?

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## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> These people prove that they are beyond stupid. I mean, they dont even realize there is a nuclear submarine with 120 nuclear warheads near Syria and through their little stunt, they will be our first target in the event of an all out war.
> 
> They can fly American made planes?
> 
> We can wipe out their entire history, culture, hopes and aspirations within minutes.
> 
> Some people really dont understand where the balance of power lies. I guess riding American penis for too long does that.


Sorry ,
Friend that's they want , a emotional response ?
Putin is the best of leadership in modern age , because he don't get emotional & keeps his clam in all situations .
Russia needs to concertrete more on finding ,destroying ISIS & all other terrorits who are waging a CIA funded war on sirya .

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## SiCiSi

PatriotLover said:


> Today I lost faith in Pak-China friendship.


There is no pak china friendship. China needs easy access to a port in the Indian ocean so they feed you bits and pieces. They also need to keep India in check so they allowed you to have nuclear weapons. 

This is not about you. this is a game of world powers. Russia , USA and China. You are just a pawn.

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## PatriotLover

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Pakistan has no where to go.
> India despise you.
> Russia don't like you.
> US abandoned you.
> 
> You only got China.




We have gone thru it alone before, we can do it again. Sorry we cannot justify little children and women being slaughtered.


----------



## pkd

Recording of warnings Turkish air force gave to Russian jet

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...MEA-pilot-recalls-downing-of-Russian-jet.html


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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> Again...I think we all agree ISIS is bad. I am talking about the innocent women children who are dying due to Russian bombings. And they claim there are no civilians there. They are carpet bombing there.
> 
> Are you claiming those little children who died are ISIS killers?


Where you live ?
How many of the reffuges been ran away from sirya until now ?
Most of them are out of the bombing zones ?
& left were the ones who are affiliated with terrorist of all kind waging a CIA funded , Israeli, turkey ,Saudis +NATO supported war on sirya .

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## PatriotLover

SiCiSi said:


> There is no pak china friendship. China needs easy access to a port in the Indian ocean so they feed you bits and pieces. They also need to keep India in check so they allowed you to have nuclear weapons.
> 
> This is not about you. this is a game of world powers. Russia , USA and China. You are just a pawn.



I think you forgot the games we played with you in Afghanistan.

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## SiCiSi

batmannow said:


> Sorry ,
> Friend that's they want , a emotional response ?
> Putin is the best of leadership in modern age , because he don't get emotional & keeps his clam in all situations .
> Russia needs to concertrete more on finding ,destroying ISIS & all other terrorits who are waging a CIA funded war on sirya .



Yep, and thats why we are showing restraint. Turks cant do anything except small actions like yesterday that wont have an effect on the end game. We will continue to bomb their ISIS assets and the Kurds will keep getting stronger. 

In the event of an open war however, they just painted a bright red bulls eye on their heads which says drop nuclear bombs here.

Also, I love how they act like nuclear weapons will never be used and they are some how safe. During the Cuban missile crisis. Russian subs were armed with nuclear torpedoes and the sub commanders had total command over using them without asking anyone.

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## batmannow

pkd said:


> Recording of warnings Turkish air force gave to Russian jet
> 
> http://english.alarabiya.net/en/New...MEA-pilot-recalls-downing-of-Russian-jet.html


Sure I can recored , one too ?lolzz

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## SiCiSi

PatriotLover said:


> I think you forgot the games we played with you in Afghanistan.



Again, you didnt play anything. The Americans said jump, you said how high. The Americans said sit, and you sat down obediently. Then the Americans threw you out like a prostitute. 

Also we still killed millions of Afghan civilians. What did you do about it? Nothing.

So please dont think you matter in the world. Your entire country and existence will be a speck in history while Russia and USA will always be remembered as the greatest players of the geo politics game.

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## rockstar08

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Pakistan has no where to go.
> India despise you.
> Russia don't like you.
> US abandoned you.
> 
> You only got China.



relax  
A Chinese should not jump so high 
China and Pakistan enjoy the relationship of Brotherhood , not a master servant ...


----------



## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> Yep, and thats why we are showing restraint. Turks cant do anything except small actions like yesterday that wont have an effect on the end game. We will continue to bomb their ISIS assets and the Kurds will keep getting stronger.
> 
> In the event of an open war however, they just painted a bright red bulls eye on their heads which says drop nuclear bombs here.
> 
> Also, I love how they act like nuclear weapons will never be used and they are some how safe. During the Cuban missile crisis. Russian subs were armed with nuclear torpedoes and the sub commanders had total command over using them without asking anyone.


That's right approach ,, you need to be clam & more on the job , which is eliminating all kinds of NATO & its allies back terrorist s their supply dumps , their supply routes .
Just do that ,no need to be into stupid emotional arguments ?

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## PatriotLover

SiCiSi said:


> Also we still killed millions of Afghan civilians. What did you do about it? Nothing.
> 
> So please dont think you matter in the world. Your entire country and existence will be a speck in history while Russia and USA will always be remembered as the greatest players of the geo politics game.



You feel very proud of killing 'millions' of civilians? Congratulations!!!! You are a hero!

Your economy is already a speck. Your ruble is already rubble. You cannot touch Turkey because you will loose 25 billion USD of export money lol.



rockstar08 said:


> relax
> A Chinese should not jump so high
> China and Pakistan enjoy the relationship of Brotherhood , not a master servant ...



I dont think he represents any Chinese. He is just a kid.


----------



## SiCiSi

batmannow said:


> That's right approach ,, you need to be clam & more on the job , which is eliminating all kinds of NATO & its allies back terrorist s their supply dumps , their supply routes .
> Just do that ,no need to be into stupid emotional arguments ?



Yep, we have done this thousands of time before. No one plays this game better than us. 

The Qatar-Turkey pipeline will always be a dream.

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## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> Again, you didnt play anything. The Americans said jump, you said how high. The Americans said sit, and you sat down obediently. Then the Americans threw you out like a prostitute.
> 
> Also we still killed millions of Afghan civilians. What did you do about it? Nothing.
> 
> So please dont think you matter in the world. Your entire country and existence will be a speck in history while Russia and USA will always be remembered as the greatest players of the geo politics game.


Hold your horses friend , don't let Pakistan into that kind of sht ?
We are progressing as friends let that way be our way ,not Russia nor america can dictate the whole world , just be realistic , do the jobs for humanity what you are doing in sirya , is highly appreciated in Pakistan , cause we have suffered from worst of it ?
So don't need to challenge whole world , you are getting wrong here ?

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## Rangila

The pilot who survived says no warning was received.


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## SiCiSi

batmannow said:


> Hold your horses friend , don't let Pakistan into that kind of sht ?
> We are progressing as friends let that way be our way ,not Russia nor america can dictate the whole world , just be realistic , do the jobs for humanity what you are doing in sirya , is highly appreciated in Pakistan , cause we have suffered from worst of it ?
> So don't need to challenge whole world , you are getting wrong here ?


Unfortunately we see Pakistan as an Arab slave state. They have no power to think for themselves.

If they did, they would have the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline open by now to get cheap gas from Iran and reduce dependency on the gulf.

So unless you guys can stand up on your own feet and think for yourself, we have no respect for you.

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## cabatli_53




----------



## Oublious

Rangila said:


> The pilot who survived says no warning was received.



ahahahah

We have published the warning....

It was sent by a open channel, so every body have received.

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## PatriotLover

SiCiSi said:


> Unfortunately we see Pakistan as an Arab slave state. They have no power to think for themselves.
> 
> If they did, they would have the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline open by now to get cheap gas from Iran and reduce dependency on the gulf.
> 
> So unless you guys can stand up on your own feet and think for yourself, we have no respect for you.



Too much vodka causes psychosis.

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## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> Yep, we have done this thousands of time before. No one plays this game better than us.
> 
> The Qatar-Turkey pipeline will always be a dream.


Friend I don't care about the dam pipe lines , we as humans need RUSSIA as a force , which can deny the elite of west & their NWO .
We need Russia to be the leader saving countries like sirya & Iraq & Afghanistan ?
We don't need Rambo , to lead us ?
So pls , don't get into emotional trap , do your good work & find more allies not enemies .

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## PatriotLover

Oublious said:


> ahahahah
> 
> We have published the warning....
> 
> It was sent by a open channel, so every body have received.




I think even a KLM pilot said they heard it.

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## SiCiSi

PatriotLover said:


> Too much vodka causes psychosis.


I know you are experts at hiding from the truth.

How about you mention actual facts instead of a child like response next time.

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## Hurshid Celebi

SiCiSi said:


> I know you are experts at hiding from the truth.
> 
> How about you mention actual facts instead of a child like response next time.



Your and batmannow s job is professinal and paid trolling


----------



## PatriotLover

SiCiSi said:


> I know you are experts at hiding from the truth.
> 
> How about you mention actual facts instead of a child like response next time.



You are ranting like crazy and you want me to answer seriously?

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## SiCiSi

PatriotLover said:


> You are ranting like crazy and you want me to answer seriously?



Facts are crazy? 

Great logic. Tell it again.

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## Rangila



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## haman10

matmat26 said:


> *Imam Hussein's martyrdom* in Karbala alone leave descendants of the sender is trying to cut a single press of a lion today with the help of Moscow infidels


WTF are u even saying ?

huh ? are u suffering from some sort of borderline personality disorder ?


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## Hurshid Celebi

@SiCiSi 

My last warning to you. Türkiye is well prepared and we will knock you out. 
Your nuclear and terrorist biological threats are idiocy. 

We can and will react *with the same nuclear *weapons. Who are you ? Poor Russians ?

Give Diplomacy a chance or you will see real Power of Türkiye.

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## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> Unfortunately we see Pakistan as an Arab slave state. They have no power to think for themselves.
> 
> If they did, they would have the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline open by now to get cheap gas from Iran and reduce dependency on the gulf.
> 
> So unless you guys can stand up on your own feet and think for yourself, we have no respect for you.


Friend I think , you doesn't have sufficient knowledge about Pakistan .
We have denied SAUDIS our troops they wanted to crush yeman ?
Try to Google it , if we were what you think then we would have gone into that ?
No we didn't !
About Iran -pakistan gas pipe line , it will happen , I'm 100% sure about it ,even though yes we were pressured by Arabs but still we are working in it , we didn't stopped it ?
So ,pls don't be rude , you need allies , we need friends altogather , we need to bring a suaitable equation against that stupid wild wild west theory .

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## haman10

Hurshid Celebi said:


> @SiCiSi
> 
> My last warning to you. Türkiye is well prepared and we will knock you out.
> Your nuclear and terrorist biological threats are idiocy.
> 
> We can and will react *with the same nuclear *weapons. Who are you ? Poor Russians ?
> 
> Give Diplomacy a chance or you will see real Power of Türkiye.


seriously mate , you're embarrassing yourself and your countrymen . my friendly advice : take a step back and let other turk members handle the talk . 

@waz bro i think this thread needs your attention .

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

LOL internet maybe pro russia but Real world politicians are all Pro Turkey.

Internet is for the dumb sheep.

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## batmannow

Hurshid Celebi said:


> Your and batmannow s job is professinal and paid trolling


Friend ,
If we are against your POV , that not make us ,what you think ?
Isis is killing turks too ,then why you are hell bound to support it ?
Just ,clear your mess & be united to kill ISIS ?
Why you are getting angry if your govt supports ISIS & supplies it through your lands ?
I don't have any personal grudge against turkey , & I like Turkey , but that not means that we should accept its support to ISIS ?

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## Juicer

PatriotLover said:


> They are cowards? They are the first military to destroy a Russian fighter aircraft for a long long time. Other than Pakistan which also destroyed a few.
> 
> Cowards are people who use flamethrowers.



shooting down a clueless bomber and then hiding behind NATO is not act of courage ....

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> LOL internet maybe pro russia but Real world politicians are all Pro Turkey.
> 
> Internet is for the dumb sheep.


That's what sometime back Saddam & qadafi ever thought for themselves ?

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## rockstar08

monitor said:


> If they wants to enter Turkish strait forcefully can you defend yourself withoout NATO support?



Dude people are underestimating both parties here .. The Turks and Russians both are one badA$$ battle hard forces .. but the Advantage Turks will have as its their homeland .. Honestly speaking despite the Russian Might and other Techs , they cant Win against the Turks ... nor Turks can defeat the Russians ..

so its better if they de-escalate the situations and work together to hit ISIS

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## surya kiran

PatriotLover said:


> I think even a KLM pilot said they heard it.



Couple of questions...

1. Was it broadcast on FM radio?
2. What was a KLM fellow doing on military frequency?

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## Juicer

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> LOL internet maybe pro russia but Real world politicians are all Pro Turkey.
> 
> Internet is for the dumb sheep.



guess what , you are one of these dumb sheep !!!

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## Hurshid Celebi

batmannow said:


> hen why you are hell bound to support it



Evidence

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## PatriotLover

*Russian Market &#8207;@russian_market · 5 min.
#BREAKING TURKEY ARMY DEPLOYS TANKS, ARMORED CARS ON SYRIA BORDER: AA

Also reports thats the whole Turkish second army is on the move!*


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## SiCiSi

batmannow said:


> Friend I think , you doesn't have sufficient knowledge about Pakistan .
> We have denied SAUDIS our troops they wanted to crush yeman ?
> Try to Google it , if we were what you think then we would have gone into that ?
> No we didn't !
> About Iran -pakistan gas pipe line , it will happen , I'm 100% sure about it ,even though yes we were pressured by Arabs but still we are working in it , we didn't stopped it ?
> So ,pls don't be rude , you need allies , we need friends altogather , we need to bring a suaitable equation against that stupid wild wild west theory .



I stating facts. Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline can stretch all the way to India and China and make all four countries unbeatable economic powerhouses. But Pakistan chose to go the slave route and their citizens still do not have light in their houses. 

Which is a shame as Pakistan is in a idea location to be an economic power as the gateway to central Asia and has a huge population which can be a great workforce. Together with Iran, India and China, they can form an economic group that rivals the west. But the Saudis hold you back.

As for yemen, im sure the Pakistanis said that just for show and sent some advisers covertly to SA. They simply cannot say no to their arab masters.

And just to make things clear, We dont have a problem with Pakistan. some people choose to live as free men and some choose to be slaves. Its their choice. We dont care.

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## Rangila

Foxnews:

The former Vice Chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force said that Turkey shooting down a Russian plane was a "very bad mistake and showed poor judgment."

"This airplane was not making any maneuvers to attack the territory," McInerney said. "It was probably pressing the limits, that's fair. But you don't shoot 'em down just because of that."

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## ultron

the surviving pilot gives interview

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

batmannow said:


> That's what sometime back Saddam & qadafi ever thought for themselves ?



You arr full of chit, chinese troll.

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## SiCiSi

surya kiran said:


> Couple of questions...
> 
> 1. Was it broadcast on FM radio?
> 2. What was a KLM fellow doing on military frequency?



1. lol,
2. Getting paid euros for false statements.

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## Hurshid Celebi

surya kiran said:


> 1. Was it broadcast on FM radio?
> 2. What was a KLM fellow doing on military frequency?



It is open emergency frequency for all airmen

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## SiCiSi

Hurshid Celebi said:


> @SiCiSi
> 
> My last warning to you. Türkiye is well prepared and we will knock you out.
> Your nuclear and terrorist biological threats are idiocy.
> 
> We can and will react *with the same nuclear *weapons. Who are you ? Poor Russians ?
> 
> Give Diplomacy a chance or you will see real Power of Türkiye.



haha

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Juicer said:


> guess what , you are one of these dumb sheep !!!



Nope.


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## Hakan

*NO WONDER HE DIDN'T HEAR ANY WARNING !!!!!! TRANSPONDERS WERE MOST LIKELY OFF. NO COMMUNICATION AS USUAL.*

*Separate incidents, in all incidents Russian Transponders were off and they didn't communicate with Air Traffic Control:

Ireland incident:
*
The IAA said its air traffic controllers were notified by British counterparts that they needed to *take action to ensure the safety of commercial aircraft, because yet again the Russian bombers had entered our area of airspace control with their transponders turned off. *

If transponders are turned on, they notify air traffic controllers of the type of aircraft, their height, location, and other information.

The IAA statement confirmed *“the Russian military aircraft did not have their transponders switched on at the time”* and, at the request of British counterparts, they took action to ensure that “one aircraft’s departure from Dublin was delayed”, as it could have flown into the path of the bear bombers which were by that time in British-controlled airspace.

Passenger planes dodged Russian bombers | Irish Examiner

------

*Baltic incident:*

Two Russian Tu-22 supersonic bombers escorted by two Su-27 multirole fighters were spotted at around 5:30am local time, according to the Swedish Armed Forces.

*The Russian planes had their transponders, which make it easier for aircraft to be located, switched off, it added.*

Swedish jets track 4 Russian planes over Baltic Sea — RT News

RUSSIA DARK WAR PLANES
Russia's 'Dark' Warplanes Are Spooking Europe - Bloomberg Business
-------

“In the last year, Russia’s air activity close to Nato borders has increased in quantity and complexity,” an alliance official said. *“Russian aircraft often fly without their transponders switched on, without filing flights plans and without communicating with air traffic authorities.”*

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/214bf25e-36ca-11e5-b05b-b01debd57852.html

*In Syria again no transponders:*

A U.S. official told CNN Thursday that *Russian fighter jets turned off their transponders as they flew into Syria* in an apparent attempt to avoid detection. The official said the fighters flew very close to a transport plane that had its transponder on and functioning.

Russian fighter jets enter Syria with transponders off - CNNPolitics.com

-------

Army Col. Steve Warren, the top military spokesman in Baghdad, c*onfirmed the Turk’s version of events in saying they repeatedly warned the two Russian SU-24 pilots to back off.*

Pentagon backs Turkey's version of events, blames 'incursion' of Russian jet - Washington Times

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Russian soviet kit has malfunctioning radio equipment.

Russian junk

LOL

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## -SINAN-

PatriotLover said:


> MULTIPLE EXPLOSIONS IN ANKARA!!!
> 
> Fears of multiple explosions in Ankara, police on alert, reports of injuries & panic — RT News



Fake news of Russian media;

Photos are from 2012.
"Э+ЄNA" Ένωση Αγανακτισμένων Αποφασισμένων Ελλήνων: Φωτογραφίες μετά την έκρηξη στην Άγκυρα

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## Erhabi

SiCiSi said:


> I stating facts. Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline can stretch all the way to India and China and make all four countries unbeatable economic powerhouses. But Pakistan chose to go the slave route and their citizens still do not have light in their houses.
> 
> Which is a shame as Pakistan is in a idea location to be an economic power as the gateway to central Asia and has a huge population which can be a great workforce. Together with Iran, India and China, they can form an economic group that rivals the west.
> 
> As for yemen, im sure the Pakistanis said that just for show and sent some advisers covertly to SA. They simply cannot say no to their arab masters.
> 
> And just to make things clear, We dont have a problem with Pakistan. some people choose to live as free men and some choose to be slaves. Its their choice. We dont care.



We are not slaves of anyone. Mind your language Cyka. Turks are our brothers and will continue to be until the end of the world. Iran and Russia can only our economic friends and nothing more thn that. Majority of Pakistanis support Syrian rebels because Assad is a mad dog and shud be put down but Russia just for the sake of diverting international attention from Ukraine, is supporting an oppressor. You will see more bloodshed this is just the beginning.

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## PatriotLover

Michael Horowitz &#8207;@michaelh992 3m3 minutes ago Turkish tanks continue to be sent to the the border with #Syria as tensions with #Russia



Malik Abdullah said:


> We are not slaves of anyone. Mind your language Cyka. Turks are our brothers and will continue to be until the end of the world. Iran and Russia can only our economic friends and nothing more thn that. Majority of Pakistanis support Syrian rebels because Assad is a mad dog and shud be put down but Russians just for the sake of diverting international attention from Ukraine jumped into Syrian hell. You will see more bloodshed this is just the beginning.



Leave it bro, today the Chinese, Russians and Indians are dancing together.

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## batmannow

SiCiSi said:


> I stating facts. Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline can stretch all the way to India and China and make all four countries unbeatable economic powerhouses. But Pakistan chose to go the slave route and their citizens still do not have light in their houses.
> 
> Which is a shame as Pakistan is in a idea location to be an economic power as the gateway to central Asia and has a huge population which can be a great workforce. Together with Iran, India and China, they can form an economic group that rivals the west. But the Saudis hold you back.
> 
> As for yemen, im sure the Pakistanis said that just for show and sent some advisers covertly to SA. They simply cannot say no to their arab masters.
> 
> And just to make things clear, We dont have a problem with Pakistan. some people choose to live as free men and some choose to be slaves. Its their choice. We dont care.


Sorry ,
Friend Russia is also not a heaven on earth ?
Russia isn't is the richest country of the world & nor its population is happy as it wants ?
Don't want to point it out ,why still many Russian hookers an be found in the streets of major cites of the , rich world ?

Don't bring conspiracy theories here ,bring facts. 
Bring a fact where Pakistan army has sent its advisors ?
We are ready to share pipe line , with all of our friends but , India is our enemy just like USA for you , sorry we can't trust them ?
So its enough for us ,to get gas pipe line from Iran & let it go into China , which is the most trusted friend of ours .
No one is perfect , not us nor you ,but we have a common enemy , who is trying to capture all of the world one by one ?
We need to stop it & its terrorist tool ?
That's what we can agree upon & make this world a better place for all ?

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## Irfan Baloch

T-123456 said:


> These scumbags were ''relatives'' of the Turkmens from the village where 600 were killed by Russian bombs,just a couple of days ago.
> *Do you think they would care if anyone would say that its against all rules?*
> Btw,some of them were shouting ''dont shoot,we need prisoners''.
> The pilots will probably be handed over to Turkiye.


yes the tables can turn 
it is below dignity to shoot at the downed pilot, rough up a captive or desecrate the corpses.
shooting at parachutes is considered the lowest of lowest act. and puts these scumbags in the league of the Daesh scumbags what burnt the Jordanian pilot alive.

I will have the same word for anyone who does it to Israeli or Turkish or Saudi pilot... I dont change my view.

remember this .. my dear friend. our support and sympathy is with Turkey and will remain so but as real friends we have an obligation to speak our minds. neither you nor we are pure and innocents and infallible. 

there was the bombing in Turkey recently and then there is the PKK issue and some countries are using that against Turkey.. we all live in glasshouses .... we know it because we suffered the same fate when we were clapped and cheered by same two friends .....------ from comfortable distance ---- in the 80s... as the fate has it... there is another country with crescent and star but with red background instead of green... who happens to have same two ..."friends/ allies"... is already starting to suffer terrorism and has millions of refugees on its door steps and scumbags and religious degenerates from far corners of the world who make videos of lynching, cannibalising, burning and beheading as normality.

Turkey's military/ political leadership took a view and made a decision to shoot down the plan.. but what followed later was disgusting. the truth about this incident about right and wrong is subjective and depends who you ask the question.

All I know is that the scumbags that blew up people in Turkey, France and elsewhere are laughing their heads off because of this incident.

you guys see blood and start hyper ventilating when we Pakistanis give our own example.. we would have done the same had people warned us back in the 80s.. we had a full hard on and had the hallal dollars and American weapons at our disposal and nothing could touch us. you think the same about your self I pray that you turn out better than us... 
but Life my dear is a Biatch....


enjoy the "victory" while it lasts.

good luck

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## SiCiSi

Malik Abdullah said:


> We are not slaves of anyone.



Sure. Thats why your people sit in the dark while your arab 'brother' is the largest oil producer in the world.

Please dont embarrass yourself. You dont even know what this war is about.

But here, educate yourself.

Syria intervention plans fuelled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concerns | Nafeez Ahmed | Environment | The Guardian

Migrant Crisis & Syria War Fueled By Competing Gas Pipelines

Competing Gas Pipelines Are Fueling The Syrian War & Migrant Crisis | Zero Hedge

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## tesla

where is worship to putin ,yesterday they were threatening to turkiye with nukes especially chinese lol

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## SiCiSi

batmannow said:


> We are ready to share pipe line , with all of our friends but , India is our enemy just like USA for you , sorry we can't trust them ?
> ?



I have a question I never really understood. 

Do you consider yourself closer to arabs in culture or to India?



tesla said:


> where is worship to putin ,yesterday they were threatening to turkiye with nukes especially chinese lol


Syrian Turkmen run for their lives

Russia launches air strikes in Syria's Latakia province after Turkey downed jet | Daily Mail Online

Were killing their women and children from the air.

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## Erhabi

PatriotLover said:


> Michael Horowitz &#8207;@michaelh992 3m3 minutes ago Turkish tanks continue to be sent to the the border with #Syria as tensions with #Russia
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it bro, today the Chinese, Russians and Indians are dancing together.



Russian and Indian dancing makes sense but I think some Chinese members here who are even talking crap against Pakistan are not the true representatives of China. Chinese are very sensible and peace loving people. Dont change ur opinion about them because of some stupid kids.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Chinese fanboys disapeared as they wittnessed the impotency of put-in his azz.

LOL

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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> Michael Horowitz &#8207;@michaelh992 3m3 minutes ago Turkish tanks continue to be sent to the the border with #Syria as tensions with #Russia
> 
> 
> 
> Leave it bro, today the Chinese, Russians and Indians are dancing together.


Stop patronising others ,specially our Chinese friends because , Russia is bombing the right terrorirs ?
I think you are some kind of Saudi sympathizer , or a exermist sunni cult member who , thinks that ISIS are the sunni god sent angels fighting the war against dajaal ?
No its not that ,, its simple ISIS are terrorist be it Sunnis or shite they are just terrorists , turkeys has done wrong downing Russian jet was too stupid , cause it has exposed its support to ISIS terrorists ?


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## xenon54 out

Hypersonicmissiles said:


> Pakistan has no where to go.
> India despise you.
> Russia don't like you.
> US abandoned you.
> 
> You only got China.


Arrogance at its best.


----------



## Irfan Baloch

Malik Abdullah said:


> Russian and Indian dancing makes sense but I think some Chinese members here who are even talking crap against Pakistan are not the true representatives of China. Chinese are very sensible and peace loving people. Dont change ur opinion about them because of some stupid kids.


false flaggers .. why should Chinese care ?

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## Oublious

batmannow said:


> Stop patronising others ,specially our Chinese friends because , Russia is bombing the right terrorirs ?
> I think you are some kind of Saudi sympathizer , or a exermist sunni cult member who , thinks that ISIS are the sunni god sent angels fighting the war against dajaal ?
> No its not that ,, its simple ISIS are terrorist be it Sunnis or shite they are just terrorists , turkeys has done wrong downing Russian jet was too stupid , cause it has exposed its support to ISIS terrorists ?




We are not the country let fly drone above us, we put it down you get it?


----------



## PatriotLover

Malik Abdullah said:


> Russian and Indian dancing makes sense but I think some Chinese members here who are even talking crap against Pakistan are not the true representatives of China. Chinese are very sensible and peace loving people. Dont change ur opinion about them because of some stupid kids.



Yes I understand, plus its temporary.

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## batmannow

Malik Abdullah said:


> We are not slaves of anyone. Mind your language Cyka. Turks are our brothers and will continue to be until the end of the world. Iran and Russia can only our economic friends and nothing more thn that. Majority of Pakistanis support Syrian rebels because Assad is a mad dog and shud be put down but Russia just for the sake of diverting international attention from Ukraine, is supporting an oppressor. You will see more bloodshed this is just the beginning.


Majority of Pakistanis is against ISIS terrorists who been created by CIA , still if we go on a referendum , no one will support USA ?
Whatever govt is in sirya , its their own ,planted democracies like Pakistan ,Iraq , Afghanistan , Egypt are much worse then any dictatorship ?will you support any militant group fight against Saudi dictatorship ?

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## PatriotLover

batmannow said:


> Stop patronising others ,specially our Chinese friends because , Russia is bombing the right terrorirs ?
> I think you are some kind of Saudi sympathizer , or a exermist sunni cult member who , thinks that ISIS are the sunni god sent angels fighting the war against dajaal ?
> No its not that ,, its simple ISIS are terrorist be it Sunnis or shite they are just terrorists , turkeys has done wrong downing Russian jet was too stupid , cause it has exposed its support to ISIS terrorists ?



I told you 100 times, kill ISIS, i would love that but Russia is killing little children and women.

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## batmannow

Oublious said:


> We are not the country let fly drone above us, we put it down you get it?


Sure that's nice ,& we are not a country where Gorbachev's born either ?


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## batmannow

PatriotLover said:


> I told you 100 times, kill ISIS, i would love that but Russia is killing little children and women.


That's what Russians are doing , they are killing ISIS & cutting its supporters & their supplies ?
Turkey is the only land linked supporter of them , so its natural for Russians to watch the bordering areas of the sirya & turkey ?
That's what that fighter jet was doing there , which was shot by turkey , to send more supplies to ISIS ?
its a iron fact .
Get it , & don't put our friendship with China at stake for this conflict ?



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Russia is a lying piece of chit. They don't fight ISIS.


& you are ?lolz
That's why Paris terrorist attackers been found in Turkey , they were just going back to their homes in sirya ?

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

batmannow said:


> That's what Russians are doing , they are killing ISIS & cutting its supporters & their supplies ?
> Turkey is the only land linked supporter of them , so its natural for Russians to watch the bordering areas of the sirya & turkey ?
> That's what that fighter jet was doing there , which was shot by turkey , to send more supplies to ISIS ?
> its a iron fact .
> Get it , & don't put our friendship with China at stake for this conflict ?



Turkey had border clashes with ISIS terrorists. Where severel turkish soldiers were killed.

Liar liar, russian pants on fire!

LOL

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## scherz



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## Erhabi

batmannow said:


> Majority of Pakistanis is against ISIS terrorists who been created by CIA , still if we go on a referendum , no one will support USA ?
> Whatever govt is in sirya , its their own ,planted democracies like Pakistan ,Iraq , Afghanistan , Egypt are much worse then any dictatorship ?will you support any militant group fight against Saudi dictatorship ?



Sir i have been following this conflict since the beginning when Assad started to kill protesters like a psychopath. Their Army broke into two because of his brutality. In the beginning it was only FSA and thn suddenly ISIS came and ruined everything!. ISIS actually gave boost to Assad\s regime. More countries jumped in support him totally ignoring those 200000 Syrians he killed! I have seen torture videos. I recommend you watch them too. Assad's army is no way better thn ISIS and both Assad and ISIS shud be eliminated. I have met many Syrians here and I always ask them who do they support and I have yet to meet a Syrian who supports Assad!. Please try to understand the situation from the other side too. Assad is totally wrong here.


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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Serbians sold FAMAS rifles to ISIS terrorists for money.

Liar liar slavic pants on fire!

Haha


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## madmusti

ultron said:


> the surviving pilot gives interview



Why he is not showing his Face ? Already one of the Pilots was dead the other one get captured firstly by the Turkmens.

Where is the Proof that this Guy is the Pilot from SU-24 ?

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## Irfan Baloch

Oublious said:


> We are not the country let fly drone above us, we put it down you get it?


oh ho....
this "taunt" missed its target by miles...
those American drones are hitting terrorists... so we dont loose any sleep over them. only the Islamist parties and their apologists bitch about the drone strikes.. they have degraded the enemy and have killed 2 top TTP leaders..

so there is a difference. but if someone else tries to copy American drones then he gets shot down.. @Windjammer can let you know how we shot down an Israeli made Indian drone.

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## madmusti



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## A1Kaid

This action was not in Turkey's best interest.

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## -SINAN-

SiCiSi said:


> Unfortunately we see Pakistan as an Arab slave state. They have no power to think for themselves.
> 
> If they did, they would have the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline open by now to get cheap gas from Iran and reduce dependency on the gulf.
> 
> So unless you guys can stand up on your own feet and think for yourself, we have no respect for you.


Yeah, you are super duper uber country, yet Turkey downs your jet and you can do nothing about it.

Keep dreaming about your glorious country.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

That pilot is the pilot of russian SAR helicopter .

Both SU 24 pilots are dead.

Idiotic thirdworlder putin fanboys.


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## SiCiSi

Sinan said:


> Yeah, you are super duper uber country, yet Turkey downs your jet and you can do nothing about it.
> 
> Keep dreaming about your glorious country.



Russia launches air strikes in Syria's Latakia province after Turkey downed jet | Daily Mail Online

Syrian Turkmen run for their lives

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## cabatli_53

Russia just made too much noise in this region. Thanks to their politic powers, They suppose themselves to intervene such games, even If they have such limited troops and capabilities in Syria but A Turkish slap make them realize where they are and What they are doing around our borders. I really wonder Where were those super-duper Russian electronic warfare antennas that was claimed to blind all Turkish fighters in recent weeks ? I supposed that such bad lies are just being spread by Iranian Mullahs.

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## Oublious

Irfan Baloch said:


> oh ho....
> this "taunt" missed its target by miles...
> those American drones are hitting terrorists... so we dont loose any sleep over them. only the Islamist parties and their apologists bitch about the drone strikes.. they have degraded the enemy and have killed 2 top TTP leaders..
> 
> so there is a difference. but if someone else tries to copy American drones then he gets shot down.. @Windjammer can let you know how we shot down an Israeli made Indian drone.



So for your own political views you let harass your own people and airspace. You are so low, You are like that bitch who was thanking bush for invading iraq. You shot indian drone but let the americans do ther job, big achievement.

Pakistan is doomed with morons like you.

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## Mahmoud_EGY

Sinan said:


> Yeah, you are super duper uber country, yet Turkey downs your jet and you can do nothing about it.
> 
> Keep dreaming about your glorious country.


and where is your reaction to isreal many years ago with the attack on the turkish ship and killing of civilians dont worry russians will get their revenge it is just a matter of time


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## Windjammer

Irfan Baloch said:


> oh ho....
> this "taunt" missed its target by miles...
> those American drones are hitting terrorists... so we dont loose any sleep over them. only the Islamist parties and their apologists bitch about the drone strikes.. they have degraded the enemy and have killed 2 top TTP leaders..
> 
> so there is a difference. but if someone else tries to copy American drones then he gets shot down.. @Windjammer can let you know how we shot down an Israeli made Indian drone.


With pleasure sir, not just Israeli made drones in Indian service but a whole bunch of Israeli aircraft as well, if the images are not good enough then we can post the full details.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Oublious said:


> So for your own political views you let harass your own people and airspace. You are so low, You are like that bitch who was thanking bush for invading iraq. You shot indian drone but let the americans do ther job, big achievement.
> 
> Pakistan is doomed with morons like you.



Why do you attack Pakistan? It is not your bussiness what they do.

You Turks have very low IQ. It is a shame.



Mahmoud_EGY said:


> and where is your reaction to isreal many years ago with the attack on the turkish ship and killing of civilians dont worry russians will get their revenge it is just a matter of time



Netanjahu apologized openly. It was a misunderstanding. Israel also did pay some compensation.

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## cabatli_53

The number of fighters patrolling in Syrian border is increased to 18...

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## Irfan Baloch

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Why do you attack Pakistan? It is not your bussiness what they do.
> 
> You Turks have very low IQ. It is a shame.
> 
> 
> 
> Netanjahu apologized openly. It was a misunderstanding. Israel also did pay some compensation.


please.. no need to go down the insults route. sometimes people have lack of vocabulary and difficulty in expressing themselves. he is suffering from that issue

lets keep the debate within the civilised manner



Oublious said:


> So for your own political views you let harass your own people and airspace. You are so low, You are like that bitch who was thanking bush for invading iraq. You shot indian drone but let the americans do ther job, big achievement.
> 
> Pakistan is doomed with morons like you.


maybe @cabatli_53 or @Hakan can communicate better with you
you seem like beyond communicating.

this is the problem where people with limited or no knowledge and lack of basic social skills ... come online and embarrass themselves and their fellow countrymen.
what is the point to educate you about your lack of comprehension when you are using swear words.
may god help you

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

With russian Airpower they will be shot down in no time.

You attacked a careless russian unit from behind.

Next time they will roast you like a Turkey

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## -SINAN-

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> and where is your reaction to isreal many years ago with the attack on the turkish ship and


What's that up to you* ex-vilayet ?



*





Mahmoud_EGY said:


> killing of civilians dont worry russians will get their revenge it is just a matter of time


Not worried a bit, son.

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## Irfan Baloch

cabatli_53 said:


> Russia just made too much noise in this region. Thanks to their politic powers, They suppose themselves to intervene such games, even If they have such limited troops and capabilities in Syria but A Turkish slap make them realize where they are and What they are doing around our borders. I really wonder Where were those super-duper Russian electronic warfare antennas that was claimed to blind all Turkish fighters in recent weeks ? I supposed that such bad lies are just being spread by Iranian Mullahs.


lol nice picture but the aeroplane looks like our good old F-16


----------



## cabatli_53



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## Juicer

Mahmoud_EGY said:


> and where is your reaction to isreal many years ago with the attack on the turkish ship and killing of civilians dont worry russians will get their revenge it is just a matter of time



they knew against Israel , NATO wouldn't support them ...

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## cabatli_53



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## -SINAN-

SiCiSi said:


> Russia launches air strikes in Syria's Latakia province after Turkey downed jet | Daily Mail Online
> 
> Syrian Turkmen run for their lives



We downed your jet, not some Turkmen militia on Syria. 

Also,

Turkmen fighters recapture strategic point on Mount Turkmen

You airforce sucks anyways.......

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## Gazprom

cabatli_53 said:


> Russia just made too much noise in this region. Thanks to their politic powers, They suppose themselves to intervene such games, even If they have such limited troops and capabilities in Syria but A Turkish slap make them realize where they are and What they are doing around our borders. I really wonder Where were those super-duper Russian electronic warfare antennas that was claimed to blind all Turkish fighters in recent weeks ? I supposed that such bad lies are just being spread by Iranian Mullahs.



Electronic warfare is much effective against Radar guided BVR missiles ,not Within visual range heat seekers like how Turkey used .


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## SiCiSi

Sinan said:


> We downed your jet, not some Turkmen militia on Syria.
> 
> Also,
> 
> Turkmen fighters recapture strategic point on Mount Turkmen
> 
> You airforce sucks anyways.......



Source yenisafak.com

Right.

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## Windjammer

Oublious said:


> So for your own political views you let harass your own people and airspace. You are so low, You are like that bitch who was thanking bush for invading iraq. You shot indian drone but let the americans do ther job, big achievement.
> 
> Pakistan is doomed with morons like you.


Recently US has deployed six F-15 Eagles in Turkey, do we assume that Turkey is unable to defend it'self......or is this just through mutual understanding and co-operation.


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## A.M.

cabatli_53 said:


>


Really brother? Really?

Turkey* only* had the guts to take this step because it is a member of NATO and somewhat protected by its provisions. That's it.

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## madmusti



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## SiCiSi

A.M. said:


> Really brother? Really?
> 
> Turkey* only* had the guts to take this step because it is a member of NATO and somewhat protected by its provisions. That's it.



These people get very brave when riding on American penis. 

Unfortunately for them, uncle sam will throw them out in the rain for a new prostitute whenever he feels like.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Slowly i start to fear for Russians instead of Turks. Seems Turks got the taste of russky blood.

LOL


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## -SINAN-

SiCiSi said:


> Source yenisafak.com
> 
> Right.


Turkmen Forces Wrest Town In N. Syria From Regime Control

Turkmen commander in Turkey, briefing journalists... 
Türkmenler Kaybettikleri Bölgeleri Geri Aldı | İzlesene.com

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## krakatoa

other pakistanis having hard time choosing side as well like myself in this conflict ?

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## SiCiSi

Sinan said:


> Turkmen Forces Wrest Town In N. Syria From Regime Control
> 
> Turkmen commander in Turkey, briefing journalists...
> Türkmenler Kaybettikleri Bölgeleri Geri Aldı | İzlesene.com



Meanwhile his people are getting bombed back to the stone age.

amazing brave turkish warrior

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## cabatli_53

Sinan said:


> Turkmen Forces Wrest Town In N. Syria From Regime Control
> 
> Turkmen commander in Turkey, briefing journalists...
> Türkmenler Kaybettikleri Bölgeleri Geri Aldı | İzlesene.com




We should supply some Stinger missiles to Turkmens bro. There are many Russian copter navigating around the region...

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## fox 2

Gazprom said:


> Electronic warfare is much effective against Radar guided BVR missiles ,not Within visual range heat seekers like how Turkey used .


Do you know what is AMRAAM ????
Did you check the Turkish radar track ???

So let's make easy for you. Our plane fired the missile 60-70 km away from the Russian jet. So use your brain little bit.

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## Oublious

Next move...






Every shit of Ruskies are in our reach... Look to that missile, stealth cruise missiles...

From sea, ground and air....

Poorsian can join with the ruskies...

s400 latikiya nor problem... we give them what they need.

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## SiCiSi

jaydee said:


> The discussions have gone haywire.



Its bringing the real face of your ISIS supporting turkish brothers out. If you want to hide from it, fine.

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## cabatli_53

Firtina howitzers are moved to border where Turkmens are fighting against Ruski junks !






Tens of new upgraded SAbra tanks are moved to Syrian border Where Turkmens are fighting against Ruski junks !

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## Gazprom

zenmastera said:


> Do you know what is AMRAAM ????
> Did you check the Turkish radar track ???
> 
> So let's make easy for you. Our plane fired the missile 60-70 km away from the Russian jet. So use your brain little bit.



Yesterday I read it was a heat seeker that Turkey probably used on another forum. I will update myself and get back.


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## Oublious

Special delivery for ther cruise ships...

Harpoon ASM block II.

This baby can't be jammed, when fired it wil hit you...

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





Ne sandin, AMRAAM.

What did you think, AMRAAM...

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## cabatli_53

Turkish Army is one of the most advanced forces of this region in terms of Electronic warfare units. No need to mention our Air Force having a vast of experience to neutralize S-300 batteries thanks to Electronic warfare and Test range exercise area.

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## Oublious

We are waiting...






Our slam-er wil make suffer the ruskies...













Look to the video, Slam-er and popeye cruise missiles in action...






Som missile attack ahahaah...

assad and ruskies will taste our cruise missiles if they are going on with dreams...

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## EagleEyes

Love seeing the Turks have no fear of mother Russia.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

OMG Turks went full Retard now.LOL

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## Hyperion

Perplexing indeed! 



WebMaster said:


> Love seeing the Turks have no fear of mother Russia.


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## Gibbs

WebMaster said:


> Love seeing the Turks have no fear of mother Russia.



As predicted the Russians have imposed a no fly zone around Latakia and most of the Turkish/ Syrian border area's.. And they're bombing the hell out of Turkmen or what ever they call themselves who shot and killed the Airman screaming Allahu Akbar, Which amounts to a war crime

Feel sorry for Turkish people who might have to suffer long term consequences for the utter moronic stupidity of their leadership and pity those posters here who post these chest thumping comments and degrading pics taunting the Russians.. After shooting down a bomber against universally accepted protocol, On very brittle reasons of trespassing their territory for 17 seconds.. This was a preemptive strike.. This is not how a responsible global player acts.. Rather how unstable dictatorships do.. They have no idea what they unleashed here

Go and check any mainstream news paper or news site from the West and other NATO nations.. Vast majority have no sympathy whatsoever for this Turkish adventurism or for what ever awaits them.. Token support from NATO spokesperson or political leadership is just a facade for the media

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## fox 2

Russia need to understand something. You can't play without us in here. 
1 month ago did you violated our airspace 2 time ? Yes. 
Did you lock our plane for 5 minutes (5 mins too much for dogfight. we save and work on that radar stream BTW ) yes. 
Did you say we are very soryy its GPS error ? Yes.
So why the hell doing this again ?
Answer is simple. They think nobody do nothing to us. They even flight their nuclear loaded planes in anywhere alone.
C'mon russia. You are just a player. Not mafia, or police of the world..


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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Gibbs said:


> As predicted the Russians have imposed a no fly zone around Latakia and most of the Turkish/ Syrian border area's.. And they're bombing the hell out of Turkmen or what ever they call themselves who shot and killed the Airman, Which amounts to a war crime
> 
> Feel sorry for Turkish people who might have to suffer long term consequences for the utter moronic stupidity of their leadership and pity those posters here who post these chest thumping comments and degrading pics taunting the Russians.. After shooting down a bomber against universally accepted protocol, On very brittle reasons of trespassing their territory for 17 seconds.. This was a preemptive strike.. This is not how a responsible global player acts.. Rather how unstable dictatorships do.. They have no idea what they unleashed here
> 
> Go and check any mainstream news paper or news site from the West and other NATO nations.. Vast majority have no sympathy whatsoever for this Turkish adventurism or for what ever awaits them.. Token support from NATO spokesperson or political leadership is just a facade for the media



The same Russian Pilot bombed the entire Region since days until he was knocked out of heaven.

I think last time it was considered a warcrime to bomb civilian living Areas and villages?

please pardon me if that has changed!

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## SALMAN F

Full Moon said:


> It is amazing how Iranian members are all in one side trying to find the lost justice for Russia .


It's amazing how you troll in every thread and try to find lost justice for erDOGan


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## Gibbs

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> The same Russian Pilot bombed the entire Region since days until he was knocked out of heaven.
> 
> I think last time it was considered a warcrime to bomb civilian living Areas and villages?
> 
> please pardon me if that has changed!



Collateral damage in a war zone is completely a different ball game to deliberate targeting of an identified unarmed legitimate combatant

If you cant differentiate the two i'm afraid you're not fit to argue any point in a defense forum

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Gibbs said:


> Collateral damage in a war zone is completely a different ball game to deliberate targeting of an identified unarmed legitimate combatant
> 
> If you cant differentiate the two i'm afraid you're not fit to argue any point in a defense forum



Unarmed? Are you serious?

Every russian Pilot has a Pistole with him.


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## batmannow

Gibbs said:


> As predicted the Russians have imposed a no fly zone around Latakia and most of the Turkish/ Syrian border area's.. And they're bombing the hell out of Turkmen or what ever they call themselves who shot and killed the Airman screaming Allahu Akbar, Which amounts to a war crime
> 
> Feel sorry for Turkish people who might have to suffer long term consequences for the utter moronic stupidity of their leadership and pity those posters here who post these chest thumping comments and degrading pics taunting the Russians.. After shooting down a bomber against universally accepted protocol, On very brittle reasons of trespassing their territory for 17 seconds.. This was a preemptive strike.. This is not how a responsible global player acts.. Rather how unstable dictatorships do.. They have no idea what they unleashed here
> 
> Go and check any mainstream news paper or news site from the West and other NATO nations.. Vast majority have no sympathy whatsoever for this Turkish adventurism or for what ever awaits them.. Token support from NATO spokesperson or political leadership is just a facade for the media







here it is NATO & its leaders telling turkey to not provoke Russia , so lessons yo be learnt for turkey , don't try extra mile , cause even that won't take you to the victory stand ?
Turkey has just given Russians total control over siyan skies & lands , after few weeks , nothing called ISIS, FSA or AL-NUSRA will ever be found in sirya , which will bring asaad back into full control then , Russia will play with turkey all guns loaded ?
Till that time these NATO thugs , will be smiling on the destruction of the Turkish military might by the hands of Russia ?
for them , its beast against a monster , for NATO they are happy if anyone of them fails , or any one of them wins , they will be on both sides , but surly they dont want any confrontation against Russia at this time .
Yes you have rightly pointed it out in your post , its just turkey standing by its own ?

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## Gibbs

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Unarmed? Are you serious?
> 
> Every russian Pilot has a Pistole with him.



Again you dont seem to understand conventions and rules of war.. He was shot and killed while parachuting down for safety, Not at combat.. Again it seems futile to make sense here.. Going by the rest of your posts it seems you're on a mission of trolling

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> The same Russian Pilot bombed the entire Region since days until he was knocked out of heaven.
> 
> I think last time it was considered a warcrime to bomb civilian living Areas and villages?
> 
> please pardon me if that has changed!


There is no more civilian areas , in sirya its all terrorist held areas or govt controlled areas that's it ?

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## Gibbs

batmannow said:


> here it is NATO & its leaders telling turkey to not provoke Russia , so lessons yo be learnt for turkey , don't try extra mile , cause even that won't take you to the victory stand ?
> Turkey has just given Russians total control over siyan skies & lands , after few weeks , nothing called ISIS, FSA or AL-NUSRA will ever be found in sirya , which will bring asaad back into full control then , Russia will play with turkey all guns loaded ?
> Till that time these NATO thugs , will be smiling on the destruction of the Turkish military might by the hands of Russia ?
> for them , its beast against a monster , for NATO they are happy if anyone of them fails , or any one of them wins , they will be on both sides , but surly they dont want any confrontation against Russia at this time .
> Yes you have rightly pointed it out in your post , its just turkey standing by its own ?



NATO is not foolish enough to go to war against Russia just because Erdogan had a brain fart believing way too much of his own bull shyt

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Gibbs said:


> Again you dont seem to understand conventions and rules of war.. He was shot and killed while parachuting down for safety, Not at combat.. Again it seems futile to make sense here.. Going by the rest of your posts it seems you're on a mission of trolling



Oh please. you search for a reason to cowardly stay out off world war three.

Russian Pilot bombing turkmens and later getting kiled from the same turkmens. this is not a warcrime and has nothing to do with geneva convention. pure nonsense of yours.

if you have Zero conribution stay out of this turkish russian pissing contest. don´t bleek our fun here!

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## batmannow

Gibbs said:


> NATO is not foolish enough to go to war against Russia just because Erdogan had a brain fart believing way too much of his own bull shyt


Actually , they can't shought at erdogan , cause it will expose them too , in front of their own domestic public , which is getting angrier on their hidden support to ISIS & other terrorist organisations in order to get rid of Asad govt ?
If these NATO members can shought on erdogan , they would have done loudly ,, cause because of his misadventure , the BEAR is after them all in open ?



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Turkey had border clashes with ISIS terrorists. Where severel turkish soldiers were killed.
> 
> Liar liar, russian pants on fire!
> 
> LOL


When , where ,why ?
Oh then the planners of the Paris terrorist attack been caught from turkey ?lolzz
Liar ,liar you are a wrost liar !

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## Hurshid Celebi

*BREAKING NEWS : !!!!!*

Government Spokesman Mr. Celik just now in TV :

Our military forces have now free permission to engage all suspicious hostile elements
on land , air and sea !

We will never surrender our Türk ethnicity "Türkmen" to evil bastards !

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Russians do not even understand the Turks. Look at them. they will start full scale war when russia is not stoping their provocations.

ok i am out! pray to god or Allah or Buddha! this is serious chit now!

Putin prepare for FULL SCALE WAR with a Country the same economic size as yours. and full NATO western Technology Support.

ouch!

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Oh please. you search for a reason to cowardly stay out off world war three.
> 
> Russian Pilot bombing turkmens and later getting kiled from the same turkmens. this is not a warcrime and has nothing to do with geneva convention. pure nonsense of yours.
> 
> if you have Zero conribution stay out of this turkish russian pissing contest. don´t bleek our fun here!


Whatever these turkmens are ?
Oh terrorists supported by turkey to send logistics to ISIS near to the war front between govt & terrorist ?
If you think these turkmens are real & legit freedom fighters , then be aware , sooner or later you have fight , with Kurdish liberation army too , hope you won't call them terrorists then ?



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> Russians do not even understand the Turks. Look at them. they will start full scale war when russia is not stoping their provocations.
> 
> ok i am out! pray to god or Allah or Buddha! this is serious chit now!
> 
> Putin prepare for FULL SCALE WAR with a Country the same economic seize as yours. and full NATO western Technology Support.
> 
> ouch!


NATO isn't supporting a idiot ,s war , which will send them to dark ages ?
Its turkey begging EU to take it as its me member , because of their , wealth ,wisdom , & tolerance ?
Turkey lacks each of it , for now & its has brought them the problem , ISIS at their own gates ?
No they don't support turkey ,instead they want Russia to destroy half of Turkey , so they can start new prapoganda war on Russia to declare it later the new NAZIs of modern times .



Hurshid Celebi said:


> *BREAKING NEWS : !!!!!*
> 
> Government Spokesman Mr. Celik just now in TV :
> 
> Our military forces have now free permission to engage all suspicious hostile elements
> on land , air and sea !
> 
> We will never surrender our Türk ethnicity "Türkmen" to evil bastards !


Its no one taking your sovereignty , its you conspiring against another country , its govt ,its peoples ?
In general against whole world , in support of ISIS ?

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## cabatli_53

Gibbs said:


> As predicted the Russians have imposed a no fly zone around Latakia and most of the Turkish/ Syrian border area's.. And they're bombing the hell out of Turkmen or what ever they call themselves who shot and killed the Airman screaming Allahu Akbar, Which amounts to a war crime



Turks attack the enemy with "Allah" word and celebrate victory with saying "Allah-u Akbar". Check your "war crime" ccomprehension one more time !

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

@batmannow

you are so funny

look what NATO USA COMMANDER IN CHIEF GEN. RAY ODIERNO IS DOING HERE. He is signing turkish General with PURPLE HEART, highest medail of US ARMED FORCES.

















chinese, Indian fanboys in full denial mode now.

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## PurpleButcher

Few observations from a neutral perspective

1> Russia considers every anti Assad force as a legitimate target whether Turkey or anyone else likes it or not.

2> Turkey considers Turkmen forces or whatever thier name is as a moral responsibility to protect

3> Turkey should either declare openly that it will provide physical support to the Turkmen inside Syria come what may or it should stop the support altogether.

4> This middle ground and ambiguous posture has not only hurt the Turk Russian moral equation in favor of Russians but also without open declaration of support for the Turkmen, have landed them in the immediate aftermath of Russian aggressive reaction which will be a big blow to Turkey in the bigger scheme of things.

5> As far as 17 seconds violation is concerned, yes it is indeed a violation of Turk sovereignty but in 2012 this is what Erdogan said

"A short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack," he told Parliament at the time.

Read more: Erdogan in 2012: Brief Airspace Violations Can't Be Pretext for Attack

6> Turkey dealt the matter with a heavy handed approach most probably because they were irked by the factor that Russians will targeting Turkmen and USA had given the green signal.

7> Putin, will one way or the other harm Turkey in the longer run.

Conclusion:- 
1> ISIS will be laughing

2> Turkey has thoroughly got itself bogged down in regional wars like the Pakistan of 80's

3> Putin will hammer anti assad and pro Turk forces more hard and Turkey will only be able to witness the massacre from its borders.

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## Gibbs

cabatli_53 said:


> Check your "war crime" ccomprehension one more time !



I do not need checking my comprehension skills but it's you who needs to learn basic conventions of law but more importantly morality.. Killing identified combatant in a non combat situation is a bloody war crime.. Which exactly what your brethren did

Read the Geneva Convention of 1949 (Article 3).. If you can manage to

The First convention was originally signed by 12 nations which occurred in 1882. The second convention extended the protection of the first convention to wounded combatants at sea and shipwrecked sailors.

This includes pilots of crashed combat air crafts now

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## BordoEnes

WebMaster said:


> Love seeing the Turks have no fear of mother Russia.



Never! 

Though that noble quality is present in Iranians aswell.


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## RescueRanger

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @batmannow
> 
> you are so funny
> 
> look what NATO USA COMMANDER IN CHIEF GEN. RAY ODIERNO IS DOING HERE. He is signing turkish General with PURPLE HEART, highest medail of US ARMED FORCES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chinese, Indian fanboys in full denial mode now.



*Highest medal for US forces is the Congressional Medal of Honor! *


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## madmusti




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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

@RescueRanger 

nope

This is what Hulusi Akar got from Uncle Sam. It is highest decoration in peace times. Legion of Merit.

Don´t worry Hulusi Akar will also receive Medal of Honor in WW3.

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## AUz

pher said:


> save your US worship mentality to somewhere else, we don't buy it. simple is that.
> we already know what US capable of in korea war. we and russia also drew a red line for US on north korea and iran, US buy it, simple is that.



Nobody is worshipping anything.

U.S' conventional military superiority is unquestioned in entire world. Stop acting like an indian.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

may i ask what Putin got for his Intervention in syria?

the golden banana from AL ASSAD THE MONSTER. HAHAHAHA

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## RescueRanger

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> nope
> 
> This is what Hulusi Akar got from Uncle Sam. It is highest decoration in peace times. Legion of Merit.
> 
> Don´t worry Hulusi Akar will also receive Medal of Honor in WW3.



Umm, you said he received a purple heart first. Make up your mind please! 

And Medal of Honor is only awarded to US service personnel as per USC 6421. Please learn about medals and military order of decoration before committing on defence forums.

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @batmannow
> 
> you are so funny
> 
> look what NATO USA COMMANDER IN CHIEF GEN. RAY ODIERNO IS DOING HERE. He is signing turkish General with PURPLE HEART, highest medail of US ARMED FORCES.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> chinese, Indian fanboys in full denial mode now.













Purple heart doesn't means to attack Russia ?

its just another way to say , take it & get lost .
that's what you wanted , but we dont wana see you again ?lolzz

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## RescueRanger

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> oh man please don´t be jelous. HULUSI AKAR got LEGION OF MERIT from Uncle sam.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> while your favorite dictator Putin got a golden banana from butcher Al Assad for his achievements in syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DON´T BE JELOUS BEYOTCH



Jealous of what you Blyat? I am a Pakistani, Turks are our allies. Or did that fact escape that tiny pea brain of yours? Also the reason I rebutted you is because you contradicted yourself, also you cited the incorrect military decoration. You first claimed He received a Purple Heart which is a military combat decoration and not a peacetime decoration, secondly you don't know your arm from your elbow when it comes to military decoration.

Please don't embarrass yourself any further. Goofball!

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @RescueRanger
> 
> nope
> 
> This is what Hulusi Akar got from Uncle Sam. It is highest decoration in peace times. Legion of Merit.
> 
> Don´t worry Hulusi Akar will also receive Medal of Honor in WW3.


Wow now its changed to purple heart ?
No wonder you will bring , some Nazi medal next time , which can be called ,Hitler drak arrow ?
A german scale to measure the Turkish bravery ?lolzz

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## batmannow

RescueRanger said:


> Jealous of what you Blyat? I am a Pakistani, Turks are our allies. Or did that fact escape that tiny pea brain of yours? Also the reason I rebutted you is because you contradicted yourself, also you cited the incorrect military decoration. You first claimed He received a Purple Heart which is a military combat decoration and not a peacetime decoration, secondly you don't know your arm from your elbow when it comes to military decoration.
> 
> Please don't embarrass yourself any further. Goofball!


Oh he is riding this tricycle , here since this news broke down , he is just trying hard to prove himself the erdogan fan boy , who is just pissssd off on Russians killing their proxy ?lolzz



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> are you jelous?
> 
> the only Award you get is a ticket from traffic Police.
> 
> HAHAHA


No I'm not , I can give you a award ,if you like of being the most funniest poster of this thread ?lolzz
Seriously !

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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @@batmannow
> 
> i scratch soimething like you every day from the sole of my shoes
> 
> please get lost you retarded subhuman


I can give you a triple sht heart , the biggest award you deserve ?
Hope you can , use that shoe to zipp yourself , so we can be happy , that once a while you did a massive favour mistakenly on humanity ?

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## Trotsky

mike2000 is back said:


> Well, to be honest i don't really agree with you. Geo politics has nothing much to do with how some fringe elements of a country's population feels towards another. If that was the case then we wont be allies with Turkey, neither will Turkey be part of NATO, Saudi Arabia will never be one of our main allies in the region, The U.S will never be allies with many gulf/Muslim countries etc etc. So a fringe of the public feelings has nothing to with Geo-politics or how big powers go about their business/interests. Its all about how each country interests matches. Turkey is a major ally for major western powers like U.S , U.K, Germany and France and it also plays a crucial role for NATO/western powers in the region and has acted as a bulwark against Russia in the black sea/region for decades. So some minor fringe of Turkish population is insignificant when you look at the big picture Geo politically.
> 
> So even if Russia was to attack/invade Turkey(which we all know wont happen), It would be not be a matter of obligation but a duty or responsibility of the NATO to protect Turkey in case of an offensive from Russia.
> Turkey is a staunch ally of the West(regardless of the little issues we might sometimes have with them) and an important member of NATO and protecting it from any kind of foreign attack is of paramount importance to NATO as it acts as a stabilising force in the troubled Middle East and is a front for the US/U.K/France and Germany and its allies to protect their interests in the Middle East.


welll said and agreed


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## matmat26

Rus SU-24 uçağının GPS sistemi ...

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## Some1LikeU

You know nothing Jhon Snow 












result:






Turkey just backing Turkmens to defend themselves against ISIL DAES PKK-YPG ESED
we have same blood-religion with them..
distance is 0 km to us...

We are doing the same that russia did in crimea (helping not invade)
So if you have problem back off from ukraine or shut up...




how u protect ur S/300/400 batteries ?
Come on be logical, nothing will happen may be just economical...

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## Trotsky

Soldier 99 said:


> Brother! Why are you thinking that way? We are Here and we don't fear Any Putin's father! Courage runs in the blood of Turks and Pakistanis! I appreciate this courageous move of turks! They simply repeated their Great forefathers history!


analysis may be true but feelings above said are a stupidity because yesterday our leadership called the west and america the elder brother as they are ahle kitab. more that saudi arabia,iraq,iran or any other muslim country never supported pakistan on any of its external issues like kashmir. the US supporting the isis in the middle east and in afganistan and pakistan which is against isis or da'ish in pakistan so rationality demands a support to russia.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

wow look at this chit.

Russians use telephone as Navigation device.

they are crap and also their armies are crap. they will not understand what hit them in WW3

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## Trotsky

analysis may be true but feelings above said are a stupidity because yesterday our leadership called the west and america the elder brother as they are ahle kitab. more that saudi arabia,iraq,iran or any other muslim country never supported pakistan on any of its external issues like kashmir. the US supporting the isis in the middle east and in afganistan and pakistan which is against isis or da'ish in pakistan so rationality demands a support to russia.



NL_Turk said:


> If all or a majority of Turkish Kurds wanted an independant state you would have a point.
> But in reality Turkish Kurds simply just want recognition as a minority which I also support.
> If Armenians, Jewish Turks & Greeks are recognised as a minority then why not also Kurds?
> 
> The pkk only have a couple thousand members at most which nothing compared to millions of Turkish Kurds.
> 
> So Russia arming Kurds to carve up Turkey is not a possibility.


certainly possible


----------



## azzo

BordoEnes said:


> Never!
> 
> Though that noble quality is present in Iranians aswell.


Lolol Iranian are under the Russian boot and the only thing they can dk is squirm. Noble qualities my ***.

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## madmusti



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## manlion

PatriotLover said:


> What terrorist, are you calling the Turkish airforce terrorists? Russia violated multiple times thier airforce! It was intended to humiliate, but they did not know what the Turks are made of.



Forget Syria - Turkey's violation into Greek Airspace

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## matmat26




----------



## Serpentine

If you want to learn how to back off nice and slow, learn it from Erdogan


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669619294297264129

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## RescueRanger

Praying for calm and sense to prevail.

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## farag

So far several hundred turkmans and about 10 Turkish truck drivers killed. Keep counting....

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## 帅的一匹

PatriotLover said:


> I agree, thats why I think we will make the correct decision by siding with Turkey rather than Russia or China in this case. Long term we will find favour in NATO thru Turkey.


Abandon China and favor NATO? Are you serious kid?

This is a tragedy, I hope both side could calm down. This is get fling big.

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## UniverseWatcher

WebMaster said:


> Love seeing the Turks have no fear of mother Russia.


Love seeing the Turks supporting terrorist with no fear from God

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## fallstuff

Turkey actively supports ISIS. This is a fact.

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## RescueRanger

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> wow look at this chit.
> 
> Russians use telephone as Navigation device.
> 
> they are crap and also their armies are crap. they will not understand what hit them in WW3



What are you even doing on a a defence forum?

That is not a telephone, it is a Garmin GPSMAP 62c. Please google it and stop posting nonsense!

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## Oublious

fallstuff said:


> Turkey actively supports ISIS. This is a fact.




We are not bangladeash, don't compare us with yourselfs.


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## RescueRanger

Oublious said:


> We are not bangladeash, don't compare us with yourselfs.


Ignore him.

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## damm1t

fallstuff said:


> Turkey actively supports ISIS. This is a fact.



maybe you can show something to back your claim.

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## Some1LikeU

fallstuff said:


> Turkey actively supports ISIS. This is a fact.



You and who thinks like you are the biggest IDIOT. Cause ISIS attackina somewhere in the region, and then leaving it to the kurd groups, kurds are swepping the turkmen and arabs from the region this is unaceptable for the Turkey in other word ethnicity changing, now how u think Turkey helps backs ISIL? and DO U have proof or are you lying/trolling!

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## Osmanovic

@Turks. Don't listen to all of the nonsense these Chinese, Iranians, and some "Muslims" are saying. Turkey is in the right. It stood up to a large world power after having its air space violated multiple times. The Pakistani brothers downed many Russian jets in the cold war and nothing happened to them. Nothing significant will happen to Turkey either. The bully Putin was shown his place. This Turkish action was honorable and has delighted people from the Baltics all the way to the Mediterranean. Bosnian brothers are with Turkish brothers as always. 

Here there is little serious discussion even if the moderators are trying to clean up, I am reading an American Forum lately to get my information. Everyone is respectful and several Turks are there and some Americans from PDF too. They have good analysis on this topic.

Turkey Downs Russian SU-24 near Syria | The American Military Forum

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## fallstuff

Oublious said:


> We are not bangladeash, don't compare us with yourselfs.



You are actively aiding a vicious group of murderers while risking a fight with Russia. As far as Nato {which is essentially the U.S  } is concerned you are just cannon fodders. You need to read the fine line of Nato agreement before shooting another missile at a Russian plane. 

Incident at Pristina airport - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## fox 2

Serpentine said:


> If you want to learn how to back off nice and slow, learn it from Erdogan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669619294297264129


Firstly i am not a Erdogan guy. I hate him.

After the plane down Erdogan said no one can enter airspace , so there is no back off.
And Erdoğan said ''Aidiyeti belirsiz uçak'' like we declared on official report. It means ''unknown nationality''.
1 month ago when russia did the same thing we announced in same way.
So stop acting like a child.

BTW it's not the same thing that ''Not russian'' or ''unkown nationality'' It's soo different and Erdogan didnt say we didnt know its russian.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

krakatoa said:


> other pakistanis having hard time choosing side as well like myself in this conflict ?


Don't worry brother!!! Pray for us from the sidelines!! It appears to be a sort of limited end-game for resolving the current situation. In our analysis, gainers from this will be China and Turkey - both positives for Pakistan. Hold your base tightly and finish your lofty agendas. We are used to seeing extreme ups and downs. Just for solace from history - Russia had Bolshevik revolution when it attacked the Ottoman Empire and the USSR broke down when it occupied Afghanistan. Along with Russia, there will be some more losers too! It is evident that the SCRIPT has already been written and the folks are just playing their roles!!

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## fox 2

RescueRanger said:


> What are you even doing on a a defence forum?
> 
> That is not a telephone, it is a Garmin GPSMAP 62c. Please google it and stop posting nonsense!


1 month ago russian said ''it's navigation error sorry''. So it's normal what he saying.


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## damm1t

manlion said:


> Forget Syria - Turkey's violation into Greek Airspace


According to Greeks everything fly over Aegean sea is an airspace violation as they sea it a greek lake, however this is a disputed issue between Greece and Turkey.

*The threat of extending Greek territorial waters beyond their present width of 6 miles ( Greece extended her territorial waters from 3 miles to 6 miles in 1936, Turkey followed suit in 1964), the remilitarization of the Eastern Aegean Islands placed under demilitarized status by virtue of the very agreements ceding them to Greece, a 10 mile "national air space" over territorial waters of 6, abuse of the FIR service responsibility as if it confers sovereignty (request of flight plans from state aircraft and allegations of "violations of" Athens FIR) can be counted among the issues which are the real underlying causes of the Turco-Greek conflict in the Aegean.*

You can read more here;
Background Note on Aegean Disputes / Rep. of Turkey Ministry of Foreign Affairs

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## RescueRanger

zenmastera said:


> 1 month ago russian said ''it's navigation error sorry''. So it's normal what he saying.



I find that hard to believe as Syria would have shared detailed military maps with them of the region, besides the Garmin can be pre-loaded with maps of any country in the world. I have used on in Pak, Asia and even as far as Kenya.


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## Some1LikeU

Facts of Russian air space violations for 2015:

March 4 2015: 2 Russian bombers violate Irish airspace. 
July 9 2015: Russian plane violates Finnish air space 
October 3rd and 4th 2015: Two Russian Jets entered Turkish airspace and one of the planes locked its radar onto a Turkish F-16 for almost 6 minutes. The U.S and NATO condemned this violation and Turkey threatened to respond next time. 
October 7 2015: A Russian plane violates Estonian air space. 
October 19th 2015: A Russian made drone was downed by a Turkish F-16 after it violated Turkish airspace. The drone landed in Turkey. Russia said that it didn't belong to them. 
November 20th 2015: Turkey summoned a Russian envoy over the bombing of Syrian Turkmens by the Russian air force. Turkey warned of serious consequences. 
November 24th 2015: 2 Russian jets approaching the Turkish border were warned to head south by the Turkish Air Force as they were approaching Turkish Airspace. They were warned 10 times before entering Turkish Air Space. This was confirmed by the U.S military and by a recording released by the Turkish military. 
November 24th 2015: 1 of the intruding Russian jets was downed while it was in Turkish airspace and crashed into Syria.

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## RescueRanger

HAKIKAT said:


> Don't worry brother!!! Pray for us from the sidelines!! It appears to be a sort of limited end-game for resolving the current situation. In our analysis, gainers from this will be China and Turkey - both positives for Pakistan. Hold your base tightly and finish your lofty agendas. We are used to seeing extreme ups and downs. Just for solace from history - Russia had Bolshevik revolution when it attacked the Ottoman Empire and the USSR broke down when it occupied Afghanistan. Along with Russia, there will be some more losers too! It is evident that the SCRIPT has already been written and the folks are just playing their roles!!



Turkey is in the right and will be perfectly fine. Nothing to worry about Ankara, Allah (SWT) is with you, our prayers are with you. Russia will not attack Turkey, Turkey has proved the point it was trying to make. It has done what any self respecting nation would do. 

Protected it's territory and honour. I remember when our nation joined the coalition in the GWOT and there were many nay sayers who condemned Pakistan and false prophets who foresaw doom and gloom for us. Yet here we are 14 years later, still one nation under one flag. 

God bless Turkey and our Turkish brothers and sisters! Ameen.

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## fallstuff

Some1LikeU said:


> You and who thinks like you are the biggest IDIOT. Cause ISIS attackina somewhere in the region, and then leaving it to the kurd groups, kurds are swepping the turkmen and arabs from the region this is unaceptable for the Turkey in other word ethnicity changing, now how u think Turkey helps backs ISIL? and DO U have proof or are you lying/trolling!




Columns of ISIS Oil trucks have no problem getting in and of Turkey.

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## VCheng

RescueRanger said:


> Turkey is in the right and will be perfectly fine. Nothing to worry about Ankara, Allah (SWT) is with you, our prayers are with you. Russia will not attack Turkey, Turkey has proved the point it was trying to make. It has done what any self respecting nation would do.
> 
> Protected it's territory and honour. I remember when our nation joined the coalition in the GWOT and there were many nay sayers who condemned Pakistan and false prophets who foresaw doom and gloom for us. Yet here we are 14 years later, still one nation under one flag.
> 
> God bless Turkey and our Turkish brothers and sisters! Ameen.



Russia has already said it will not go to war with Turkey over this incident. After all, $40 billion in annual bilateral trade means something for both sides as an incentive to keep going.

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## fox 2

Some1LikeU said:


> Facts of Russian air space violations for 2015:
> 
> March 4 2015: 2 Russian bombers violate Irish airspace.
> July 9 2015: Russian plane violates Finnish air space
> *October 3rd and 4th 2015: Two Russian Jets entered Turkish airspace and one of the planes locked its radar onto a Turkish F-16 for almost 6 minutes. The U.S and NATO condemned this violation and Turkey threatened to respond next time. *
> October 7 2015: A Russian plane violates Estonian air space.
> October 19th 2015: A Russian made drone was downed by a Turkish F-16 after it violated Turkish airspace. The drone landed in Turkey. Russia said that it didn't belong to them.
> November 20th 2015: Turkey summoned a Russian envoy over the bombing of Syrian Turkmens by the Russian air force. Turkey warned of serious consequences.
> November 24th 2015: 2 Russian jets approaching the Turkish border were warned to head south by the Turkish Air Force as they were approaching Turkish Airspace. They were warned 10 times before entering Turkish Air Space. This was confirmed by the U.S military and by a recording released by the Turkish military.
> November 24th 2015: 1 of the intruding Russian jets was downed while it was in Turkish airspace and crashed into Syria.


That's a great success of our pilot. Staying in cold blood mode and keep recording of Russian radar stream while his wing mans waiting in sharp. That's a great think about our EW toys. I don't remember what type of plane but that type of plane will never can shot a Turkish jet definitely.


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## damm1t

Serpentine said:


> If you want to learn how to back off nice and slow, learn it from Erdogan



I dont know where you get this news from but Erdoğan doesn't sound that way on TV. At the very beginning of incident TSK announced on their website that plane's nationality is unknown which means it really doesn't matter where it's from, if you violate our airspace we shot you down.

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## okan tekis

please some one cloce this threat

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## fallstuff

*NATO survived Cold War, but downed Russian jet provides biggest threat*


Washington (CNN)The cool, calm, clear thinking that kept the NATO alliance intact as it weathered the Cold War with the Soviet Union has been shattered. 

Decades of careful diplomacy and nail-biting inaction during the potentially world-annihilating nuclear arms race of the 1950s, 60s and 70s appears to have been sacrificed in a few brief seconds by Turkey.

During the Cuban missile crisis of 1962, the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, the deployment of nuclear weapons in western Europe in the 1980s and many other causes of strife, NATO did not take on the Soviet Union or Russia directly and Moscow did not attack any NATO country.
That all changed when Turkish air force jets shot down a Russian bomber Tuesday -- the first time a NATO country has taken such action since 1952. 

Putin calls jet's downing 'stab in the back'; Turkey says warning ignored

Any chance of a quick end to the war in Syria seems to have gone up in smoke. 

Russian President Vladimir Putin has been trying to undermine the unity of NATO for years. Whether it's been Russian planes flying in Baltic airspace, aging bombers buzzing the coast of Britain, the destabilization of Ukraine and the annexation of Crimea, he has needled NATO, testing its resolve and probing for division. The downing of Russia's fighter plane may help Putin reach his goal of destabilizing and dividing NATO.

Five things to know about downed fighter


And that's why -- at first analysis -- this looks like a disaster, beyond the loss of life of one pilot and a would-be rescuer.

It may also be a gain for Putin.

For all those years he has was trying to undermine NATO unity, Erdogan's hasty move has handed it to him on a plate.

We may learn what led up to the strike, but the deed is done.

NATO and Putin: Downed Russian bomber is big threat - CNN.com


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## happycanuck

Turkey just opened the doors for Russia. What follows this action by Turkey will not be good for their nation. Let us wait for reaction by Russian. They will take their time and sometime around May 2016 will be a game changer for the Arab peninsula s well. One of the country to come under their radar will be totally devastated which is not being named by any one in the main stream media.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Irfan Baloch said:


> yes the tables can turn
> it is below dignity to shoot at the downed pilot, rough up a captive or desecrate the corpses.
> shooting at parachutes is considered the lowest of lowest act. and puts these scumbags in the league of the Daesh scumbags what burnt the Jordanian pilot alive.
> 
> I will have the same word for anyone who does it to Israeli or Turkish or Saudi pilot... I dont change my view.
> 
> remember this .. my dear friend. our support and sympathy is with Turkey and will remain so but as real friends we have an obligation to speak our minds. neither you nor we are pure and innocents and infallible.
> 
> there was the bombing in Turkey recently and then there is the PKK issue and some countries are using that against Turkey.. we all live in glasshouses .... we know it because we suffered the same fate when we were clapped and cheered by same two friends .....------ from comfortable distance ---- in the 80s... as the fate has it... there is another country with crescent and star but with red background instead of green... who happens to have same two ..."friends/ allies"... is already starting to suffer terrorism and has millions of refugees on its door steps and scumbags and religious degenerates from far corners of the world who make videos of lynching, cannibalising, burning and beheading as normality.
> 
> Turkey's military/ political leadership took a view and made a decision to shoot down the plan.. but what followed later was disgusting. the truth about this incident about right and wrong is subjective and depends who you ask the question.
> 
> All I know is that the scumbags that blew up people in Turkey, France and elsewhere are laughing their heads off because of this incident.
> 
> you guys see blood and start hyper ventilating when we Pakistanis give our own example.. we would have done the same had people warned us back in the 80s.. we had a full hard on and had the hallal dollars and American weapons at our disposal and nothing could touch us. you think the same about your self I pray that you turn out better than us...
> but Life my dear is a Biatch....
> 
> 
> enjoy the "victory" while it lasts.
> 
> good luck


 I respect your principled stand, although I disagree with some of your points. Hopefully, an end-game has started. Absence of a strong and just government has resulted in all these chaos and anarchy, which I believe will end with a better future for all of us.

As for the picture of a soldier with humungous moustache, is he from Baluch regiment? I used to know a Bangladeshi neighbor's father who was a Pakistan Army officer from Baluch regiment and fought in 1965 war against India. I heard some amazing stories regarding how they defended Lahore with a very few soldiers against over-whelming Indian attacks.

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## XenoEnsi-14

OMG! 150 pages over a fighter jet.?! THE WORLD IS ENDIIIIIIIING!!!!

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## Mrc

Russians are being sucked deeper and deeper into a civil war with no end in sight....
This can be afghanistan 2.0.

They need to disengage and cool down

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## fox 2

XenoEnsi-14 said:


> OMG! 150 pages over a fighter jet.?! THE WORLD IS ENDIIIIIIIING!!!!


Yeah. Russians and his backs (iranianssss chiniseee) nuked us 15160565 times for our self defence.
Russians thinks they are the mafia of the world but suddenly they are shocked. 
It's a simple case, but their *** burnin like a hell.

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## Jason Zhao

Russia will not fire to Turkey, this is correct way, now Turkey should take out the proof to show this event, today I checked the news, Turkey said they did not know it is Russia's plane.... it is so crazy excuse....

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## fox 2

Jason Zhao said:


> Russia will not fire to Turkey, this is correct way, now Turkey should take out the proof to show this event, today I checked the news, Turkey said they did not know it is Russia's plane.... it is so crazy excuse....


That's a lie. We always announced ''unkown nationality''. 1 months ago Russia violated our space and we said again like this way. We downed their UAV and we announced same way.
Media says like '' Turks said we don't know it was a Russian jet''. Simply bullshit.
So there is huge difference of saying that.. And we will not gonna make excuse or apologize are you crazy ? Why we should ??????

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## Jason Zhao

zenmastera said:


> Yeah. Russians and his backs (iranianssss chiniseee) nuked us 15160565 times for our self defence.
> Russians thinks they are the mafia of the world but suddenly they are shocked.
> It's a simple case, but their *** burnin like a hell.


If this oppion shows it is from Turkey, we never doubting the backs of ISIS, I think now the important thing is how to explain to the people who die in Paris and USA. 

We also want to see the USA how to thank the little brother Turkey against the ISIS.

And you said Russia are bombing your family, and today you said you do not know that is Russia's plane. so crazy, it seems like a kid who made mistake and embrassed to hiding his faults....

Chinese stand by Russia not means we accept them to your airspace, but just us the normal people can see this way is wrong, why your country team do not know that?

You do not do action against the ISIS, finnaly USA and FRANCE is crying, then next maybe UK.

this is what you do for your brother??? This is the gift you send to your brother??

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## KAL-EL

Nilgiri said:


> Many of them also got banned. Serious or not, you dont throw words like that around so cheaply, and expect everyone to ignore you and take it as some big joke.
> 
> People like that have to live through a war to understand its reality.



I was going to make a similar type reply to him, but you summed it up quite well enough for me.

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## Jason Zhao

zenmastera said:


> That's a lie. We always announced ''unkown nationality''. 1 months ago Russia violated our space and we said again like this way. We downed their UAV and we announced same way.
> Media says like '' Turks said we don't know it was a Russian jet''. Simply bullshit.
> So there is huge difference of saying that.. And we will not gonna make excuse or apologize are you crazy ? Why we should ??????


now all the world saw Russia's plane was shoot down when they fight with ISIS, we are not crazy, we just know they are doing the justice war, but you said so much, but you has no any proof to show the people killed is your family. who will belive?? just like you said Russia is lying, but how to let us trust you are not lying??

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## KingWest

Jason Zhao said:


> now all the world saw Russia's plane was shoot down when they fight with ISIS, we are not crazy, we just know they are doing the justice war, but you said so much, but you has no any proof to show the people killed is your family. who will belive?? just like you said Russia is lying, but how to let us trust you are not lying??


In reality, all of the world knows that Russia wasnt even bombing ISIS. All the world knows this, except you.

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## Azeri440

manlion said:


> Forget Syria - Turkey's violation into Greek Airspace



don't talk about something you don't know about , Turkey AND Greece violate each others borders
these violations go decades back, Syria is the country that escalated the situation when they shot down a Turkish F-4
in response Turkey shoots down anything that comes from Syria and crosses even a single meter inside Turkish territory.

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## fox 2

Jason Zhao said:


> now all the world saw Russia's plane was shoot down when they fight with ISIS, we are not crazy, we just know they are doing the justice war, but you said so much, but you has no any proof to show the people killed is your family. who will belive?? just like you said Russia is lying, but how to let us trust you are not lying??


*Obama, Hollande call on Russia to focus on Islamic State in Syria - UPI.com

Obama, in a joint news conference with French President Francois Hollande, said there is no plot to exclude Russia from the broad-base coalition to take out the IS, but Moscow has been "focused on propping [Syrian President Bashar al-Assad] rather than focusing on ISIL."

Obama said Turkey "has the right to defend its territory and its airspace," adding Russia's targeting of moderate opposition groups does nothing to quell the spread of the IS. He said Russia should focus its airstrikes on the terrorist group so mistakes are "less likely to occur."*

They are not our families. They ethnically Turks. We love them because of this. 
They are muslims, yes. BUT DEFINITELY not ISIS. 
You gonna believe what you want to belive anyway. No worth the argue with you. Russia bombing over there for Esad and his further moves. ISIS is in the 250 km east.
And this is how you hook up Putin. With ISIS of course. Are they not bombed the ISIS ? Hell yes, they bombed,
BUT THEY ARE NOT ISIS. THIS IS STRATEGICAL MOVE.

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## Azeri440

Serpentine said:


> If you want to learn how to back off nice and slow, learn it from Erdogan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669619294297264129



right , good way to twist words 

Turkish Air Force at the beginning said , the nationality of the aircraft is unknown.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

manlion said:


> did Turks security extend to the 2 million Armenians who were living under the Ottoman Empire from 1915 - 1923 ?


That definitely is the saddest part of the Ottoman history. Sultan Abdul Hamid was deposed in 1908 by CUP coup, which practically ended the dynasty along with our good destiny. CUP was lead by Turk looking foreign agents who made blunders after blunders to lead the Empire to the total destruction. In my opinion, if 1908 coup hadn't happened Armenians wouldn't have suffered for some terrorists who were supported by our enemies. How could the Ottoman dynasty be so unjust to Armenians who were called Sadik Millet (Trustworthy nation), and given high positions in the government? In etiquettes and language, they were almost indistinguishable from the Turks. That coup finished us all in the Ottoman Empire. Look at the ME now!!

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## Jason Zhao

Alright, I do not know who we should trust, you said you are right, Russia said they are right, we only want to see who are really to fight against ISIS.

As Western is the target of ISIS now.


zenmastera said:


> They are not our families. They ethnically Turks. We love them because of this.
> They are muslims, yes. BUT DEFINITELY not ISIS.
> You gonna believe what you want to belive anyway. No worth the argue with you. Russia bombing over there for Esad and his further moves. ISIS is in the 250 km east.
> And this is how you hook up Putin. With ISIS of course. Are they not bombed the ISIS ? Hell yes, they bombed,
> BUT THEY ARE NOT ISIS. THIS IS STRATEGICAL MOVE.



OK, I have to say, we do not want to everything to be complex, ISIS should be finished, if Turkey also think so, you should take the action out, NATO should stand out to show us the true action. do not use their own people to be the victim to win the politics purpose.

To Chinese, LOL, Obama is not clear during these months. Baisc mind is different from Western and Eastern, nothing to argue anyhing. 

But only one point is same, we do all against the Terrorists! This has no any doubts.



KingWest said:


> In reality, all of the world knows that Russia wasnt even bombing ISIS. All the world knows this, except you.


If western are really fight with ISIS, why they were more strong? Then Russian comes, they were weak? how to explain it now?

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## Rangila

Anybody who thinks there wont be ramification, consequences or repercussion on this (Russia-Turkey) imbroglio is living in a la la land.

Minister: Poland Wants NATO-Russia Deal Scrapped

Poland's new right-wing Foreign Minister Witold Waszczykowski insisted in an interview published Wednesday that_ the deal must go because it causes "inequality" between new and older NATO members._

Air Force commander: Russian S-400 missiles 'complicate' Syria airstrikes

_Brown said that the U.S.-led coalition and Russia have a memorandum of understanding that spells out how aircraft from both sides should interact._

_“We have pretty good connectivity with the Russians,” Brown said. “With our MOU, there are things that are in there that talk about … how we’re not going to show hostile acts or hostile intent from the coalition toward the Russians or from the Russians toward the coalition.”_


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## KingWest

Jason Zhao said:


> If western are really fight with ISIS, why they were more strong? Then Russian comes, they were weak? how to explain it now?








Those planes where bombing Turkmen people in Syria. The same Turkmen who are actually fighting ISIS

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## Hiptullha

@Jason Zhao 

If Russia was concerned about ISIS and extremists, they would get rid of Assad who cooperated with Al Qaeda during the Iraq war and released extremists from prison during the civil war.


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## Rangila

5 Turkish Weapons of War Russia Should Fear | The National Interest Blog


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

BDforever said:


> probably i know your history than you do LOL. The first Sultan's father of ottoman empire was from mongolia. go check yourself


Ottoman Empire's founder is Osman Gazi, Son of Ertugrul Gazi, are Oghuz Turks. Osmann settled in the Selcuk Empire coming from Turkmenistan and had a small emirate loyal to the Empire. How come you even don't spend a few minutes and get to conclusions? Your membership designation says "General". Are you like that 4 feet BD general who couldn't do anything when his own officers were slaughtered like chicken, and their wives and daughters got raped by their own soldiers? And, you're making fun of the Ottomans!!?! Ignorance definitely is a bliss. Anyway, I shouldn't spend any more time with you for you're not worthy of that, and my BOOK has instructed to me show Sabr-I-Jemil (glorious patience) in front of Jahils like you.

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## Jason Zhao

KingWest said:


> Those planes where bombing Turkmen people in Syria. The same Turkmen who are actually fighting ISIS


The most important is they solving way is wrong, if really russian bombing the wrong people, you should speak out and show the proof to the UN， not shoot them directly, as ISIS is difficult to find out, they are not regular army, it is diffcult to clear them out, in the WAR 2, American also bombed their own people, shoud they also shoot their own plane down?

We must dare to say own faults, the world people will understand it and forgive it.
If Russian really bombed wrong people, also we all will suggest them take the action to win your country forgiving.

And now, this way only can let world people confused, if we need to go on fight against ISIS. 

We see Russia has politics in SYria, if all the parties do this kind of way in Syria, I think most country has no harmfull factors there will not help against terrorists.

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## manlion

Azeri440 said:


> don't talk about something you don't know about ,* Turkey AND Greece violate each others borders*
> these violations go decades back, Syria is the country that escalated the situation when they shot down a Turkish F-4
> in response Turkey shoots down anything that comes from Syria and crosses even a single meter inside Turkish territory.



In the Dogfights of chasing each other's jets, Turkish violates Greek airspace on a daily basis. Whereas Greek fighter jets crossing into Turkish airspace, is mostly due to technical reasons - to maneuver in half circle into Turkey FIR in order to return to Greece..

Turkey is one of the biggest global violators of airspace, in addition to Greek air space, Turkey regularly violates Cyprus air space

.

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## 500

Jason Zhao said:


> If western are really fight with ISIS, why they were more strong? Then Russian comes, they were weak? how to explain it now?


Because u know nothing.

Thanks to US help ISIS lost towns like Ayn al Arab, Sarrin, Tal Abyad, Al Hawl, Ayn Issa, Tal Barak and hundreds villages.






On the other hand Russia gained nothing so far, except few villages. Even those villages were captured thanks to swarms of Iranian mercenaries rather than Russia.

In Iraq gains are even much bigger thanks to US.

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## Jason Zhao

Hiptullha said:


> @Jason Zhao
> 
> If Russia was concerned about ISIS and extremists, they would get rid of Assad who cooperated with Al Qaeda during the Iraq war and released extremists from prison during the civil war.



To Chinese people, we have long years of this kind of story, The power from other countries to effect their own countrol of goverment.
it is a very very saffering thing.

Chinese are confused, Assad is also doing the war against ISIS even the antigoverment armforce, this is correct, why you will support Assad must leave before ISIS work ?? Altough I see before his power killed his own people. But ISIS should be first. 

A legal goverment is being, it is good for socirty to be stable, even it just for a moment, but at least it has a contorl and concentraded power there, it will be easy the gather all the power together to defeat the ISIS.

To the normal people, ISIS is the biggest menace at this moment. why not let ASSAD thing to be later please?

In China has a word, Menace from outside and inside, outside should be first. I think you should understand it.

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## 500

Jason Zhao said:


> To Chinese people, we have long years of this kind of story, The power from other countries to effect their own countrol of goverment.
> it is a very very saffering thing.
> 
> Chinese are confused, Assad is also doing the war against ISIS even the antigoverment armforce, this is correct, why you will support Assad must leave before ISIS work ?? Altough I see before his power killed his own people. But ISIS should be first.
> 
> A legal goverment is being, it is good for socirty to be stable, even it just for a moment, but at least it has a contorl and concentraded power there, it will be easy the gather all the power together to defeat the ISIS.
> 
> To the normal people, ISIS is the biggest menace at this moment. why not let ASSAD thing to be later please?
> 
> In China has a word, Menace from outside and inside, outside should be first. I think you should understand it.


ISIS grew thanks to Assad. Assad was deliberately bombing towns of opposition and sparing towns of ISIS. You can see devastating destruction in Daraya, Jobar, Homs, Aleppo, Douma, Zabadani meanwhile Raqqa, Al Bab, Manbij have controlled by ISIS have very little damage. Assad also gave to ISIS many bases full of weapons (17th division, 93brigade, 121 brigade, Tabka airbase) virtually without fight. In same time Russia encouraged thousands of Chechens to join ISIS. 

Thats how ISIS grew in Syria. Once Assad is gone there will be no reason for people to stay in ISIS.


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## T-123456

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Assad's forces have not been angels either but 2 wrongs dont make a right......if i were one of them i wouldnt machine gun a pilot who ejected and cant even defend himself at all, that is the most cowardly act ever and goes to show that all rebel groups (not just ISIS) play dirty as well (PKK and YPG too, they are opportunists)


I know what you meant but think of the situation,just a couple of days ago,their sisters,mothers,sons,daughters etc died of bombs dropped by these pilots,some of the Turkmens even shouted,''dont shoot'',despite what had happened before.


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## Hiptullha

Jason Zhao said:


> To the normal people, ISIS is the biggest menace at this moment. why not let ASSAD thing to be later please?



As long as there's Assad, there will always be an ISIS around. There were Islamists rebelling in the state under Assad's father and there are Islamists rebelling against Assad right now (partly due to his actions). What makes you think there won't be Islamists rebelling against Assad in the next 10 years if this mess is sorted out?



> A legal goverment is being, it is good for socirty to be stable, even it just for a moment, but at least it has a contorl and concentraded power there, it will be easy the gather all the power together to defeat the ISIS.


We cannot associate the government of a megalomaniac which cooperated with former Nazi torturers in creating death camps for his own people with stability.


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## T-123456

Irfan Baloch said:


> *it is below dignity to shoot at the downed pilot,* rough up a captive or desecrate the corpses.
> *shooting at parachutes is considered the lowest of lowest act*. and puts these scumbags in the league of the Daesh scumbags what burnt the Jordanian pilot alive.


You are right about that but,there is a big but,
These Turkmens are not professional soldiers,they were normal citizens forced to go to war by circumstances.
And dont forget the bombing of a Turkmen village a couple days(or a week ago) ago.
How would they know the code of conduct in such a situation,you know,i know,how many us know or would act accordingly,even those of us on active duty,in such a situation?
Lets be realistic.
Btw,what victory?
It was just a warning.


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## thesolar65

Obama : Mr. Putin, what would you like for this year's thanks giving?

Putin : "Turkey"!!

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## Jason Zhao

500 said:


> Because u know nothing.
> 
> Thanks to US help ISIS lost towns like Ayn al Arab, Sarrin, Tal Abyad, Al Hawl, Ayn Issa, Tal Barak and hundreds villages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand Russia gained nothing so far, except few villages. Even those villages were captured thanks to swarms of Iranian mercenaries rather than Russia.
> 
> In Iraq gains are even much bigger thanks to US.





500 said:


> ISIS grew thanks to Assad. Assad was deliberately bombing towns of opposition and sparing towns of ISIS. You can see devastating destruction in Daraya, Jobar, Homs, Aleppo, Douma, Zabadani meanwhile Raqqa, Al Bab, Manbij have controlled by ISIS have very little damage. Assad also gave to ISIS many bases full of weapons (17th division, 93brigade, 121 brigade, Tabka airbase) virtually without fight. In same time Russia encouraged thousands of Chechens to join ISIS.
> 
> Thats how ISIS grew in Syria. Once Assad is gone there will be no reason for people to stay in ISIS.


it sounds like the people stay in ISIS is against Assad only, it is not agreed, as they do the wrong way, 
The way in China maybe not suit for SYria, just like Jiangjieshi and Maozedong, Jiangjieshi also killed so many people, but Maozedong also fight with them but Maozedong never accept their army to kill the citizen also do not accept their army to do the terror action, then Japanese came, Maozedong request work together to fight against the Japanese, then next solve the problem between Jiangjieshi and Maozedong, this is a strategy. 

I do not mean this way will suit for Syria, but maybe can offer one method, communication between parties first, which is fisrt menace, which should be finished first, I think this is also need us to be considered.



Hiptullha said:


> As long as there's Assad, there will always be an ISIS around. There were Islamists rebelling in the state under Assad's father and there are Islamists rebelling against Assad right now (partly due to his actions). What makes you think there won't be Islamists rebelling against Assad in the next 10 years if this mess is sorted out?
> 
> 
> We cannot associate the government of a megalomaniac which cooperated with former Nazi torturers in creating death camps for his own people with stability.


I do not know how to say now, maybe you are right, condition is different, our mind is different maybe, maybe I do not know there situation more clearly.
Anyway we wish they can find better way to solve it asap. Peace, all need the peace, the people is to hard...

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## 帅的一匹

Now Middle East is in completely chaos, China shall stay away with it. I think Turkey shall respect our sovereignty in Xingjiang and stop supporting Uygher seperatist and terrorists in our country. If you like them so much, you shall stop feeding them with the ideology of Turkistan empire. China has its limitation for toleration, mark my words. Why Chinese act so fiercely against Turkey in this thread,you shall be very clear than us. Compared to Kurds, those Uyghers are living in paradise. If you continue to take your own course to the end, then China turkey relationship is gonna be ruined. If we don't support Kurds, you don't interfere ours. Uygher population had increased from 1 million before 1950s to 12 millions nowadays, they are better if living with China.

As a leader, Erdogan is not mature at all.



T-123456 said:


> You are right about that but,there is a big but,
> These Turkmens are not professional soldiers,they were normal citizens forced to go to war by circumstances.
> And dont forget the bombing of a Turkmen village a couple days(or a week ago) ago.
> How would they know the code of conduct in such a situation,you know,i know,how many us know or would act accordingly,even those of us on active duty,in such a situation?
> Lets be realistic.
> Btw,what victory?
> It was just a warning.


Why Turkey can't retreat those Turkmen into Turkey border if you love them so much.

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## Rangila

Audio to shoot down Russian fighter jet released | IndiaTrendingNow.Com

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## ptldM3

Sinan said:


> Russian jet didn't respond to the warnings, and keep violating the Turkish airspace (for 5 minutes)




Based off of the Turkish radar image and flight path that is a lie. The area in question that the SU-24 flew over was 3 km. If the aircraft violated Turkish airspace it was no more then 17 seconds.

As for Turkey crying about airspace violations they regularly violate Greek airspace, Syrian airspace, and Iraqi airspace. Now with SU-30sm escorts and the s-400 any hostile Turkish aircraft can be shot down deep inside Turkey.

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## pher

AUz said:


> Nobody is worshipping anything.
> 
> U.S' conventional military superiority is unquestioned in entire world. Stop acting like an indian.


even US dare not to brag like that in front of China, save this joke for yourself. nobody care your opinion.



wanglaokan said:


> Abandon China and favor NATO? Are you serious kid?
> 
> This is a tragedy, I hope both side could calm down. This is get fling big.


let them be. they will always side with their muslim brother. we know that and not surprise at all.

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## Ice Cube

Russian and Syrian SF return after the rescue mission

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## batmannow

Malik Abdullah said:


> Sir i have been following this conflict since the beginning when Assad started to kill protesters like a psychopath. Their Army broke into two because of his brutality. In the beginning it was only FSA and thn suddenly ISIS came and ruined everything!. ISIS actually gave boost to Assad\s regime. More countries jumped in support him totally ignoring those 200000 Syrians he killed! I have seen torture videos. I recommend you watch them too. Assad's army is no way better thn ISIS and both Assad and ISIS shud be eliminated. I have met many Syrians here and I always ask them who do they support and I have yet to meet a Syrian who supports Assad!. Please try to understand the situation from the other side too. Assad is totally wrong here.


There was nothing such as asaad brutly killing the protestors , it was all conspirated against him , it was all stagged just like Saddam & then qadafi ?
His few generals went greedy , went into contact with CIA & some western intllegence agents , first they planned what you are calling the protest , then they killed few of them made a video & then come out of siryan army with few of troops with them ?
But large number of the siryan army remained with Assad that's why still siryan army exists ?another of examples of the conspirated or planned prapoganda was th use of chemical attack against civilians , again still it was western intelligence planned or stagged ?
My question is , if Asad was so brutal & his army broken away from him vastly , then who th hell are fighting now against ISIS,FSA AL NUSARA FRONT ?angels from skies ?
My dear, you might be following the news from.the beginung which mostly ,are the prapoganda of the west ,nothing more & nothing less .
If that's was true , Asad govt should have gone long time ago .
& do you think peoples getting political asylum will say to you that , Assad govt is good ?
How these peoples even reach there ?
ISIS was lunched by CIA +mosaad supported by USA ,KSA ,TURKEY , EU , because FSA for them was not fighting Asad forces , they were just eating the funds from the west , so ISIS been lunched to push every one else fighting against Asad govt .
ISIS brings fresh foots on the ground , & created a brutal preasure on every one including Asad army themselves , but it all worked against the intersts of west , when ISIS made it picnic & party YouTube uploading war ?
Tons of youth , from west started joining them , & eeventully west was attacked by few stupids , in paris thinking that they are doing the best of deeds for islam ?
Russia & it intell is working with Asad , long time ago , they common intersts , & Russia is not ready to give sirya to west like Iraq & Libya ?



Serpentine said:


> If you want to learn how to back off nice and slow, learn it from Erdogan
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669619294297264129


Sorry its to late , what you think Russia will take this joke & this joker serious ?
He can say whatever , but the action was done ,nothing can clear this mess by words .



wanglaokan said:


> Now Middle East is in completely chaos, China shall stay away with it. I think Turkey shall respect our sovereignty in Xingjiang and stop supporting Uygher seperatist and terrorists in our country. If you like them so much, you shall stop feeding them with the ideology of Turkistan empire. China has its limitation for toleration, mark my words. Why Chinese act so fiercely against Turkey in this thread,you shall be very clear than us. Compared to Kurds, those Uyghers are living in paradise. If you continue to take your own course to the end, then China turkey relationship is gonna be ruined. If we don't support Kurds, you don't interfere ours. Uygher population had increased from 1 million before 1950s to 12 millions nowadays, they are better if living with China.
> 
> As a leader, Erdogan is not mature at all.
> 
> 
> Why Turkey can't retreat those Turkmen into Turkey border if you love them so much.


Uygheris been used as a tool ,, by CIA which turkey presented to them , to get more funding from China ?
Talk to their leadership , 
Just give them more religoius opennes in china , treat them good , they will revolt against this of their use against turkey & CIA .



500 said:


> Because u know nothing.
> 
> Thanks to US help ISIS lost towns like Ayn al Arab, Sarrin, Tal Abyad, Al Hawl, Ayn Issa, Tal Barak and hundreds villages.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On the other hand Russia gained nothing so far, except few villages. Even those villages were captured thanks to swarms of Iranian mercenaries rather than Russia.
> 
> In Iraq gains are even much bigger thanks to US.


Pls explore more about it !

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## Juicer

manlion said:


> In the Dogfights of chasing each other's jets, Turkish violates Greek airspace on a daily basis. Whereas Greek fighter jets crossing into Turkish airspace, is mostly due to technical reasons - to maneuver in half circle into Turkey FIR in order to return to Greece..
> 
> Turkey is one of the biggest global violators of airspace, in addition to Greek air space, Turkey regularly violates Cyprus air space
> 
> .



don't you know !?
if they gain power , they will repeat what Ottoman and ISIS did , attacking other and committing systematic genocide ( something that they are pro in it and their only rival is Britain and USA ) and making sex slaves ....


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## The Sandman

Guys really didn't mean to offend anyone or derail the thread but i just couldn't resist from sharing it here

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## batmannow

Why Russia wants to raid the oil tankers conveys from ISIS to turkey & why turkey is iriked , because if the cheap oil , which gives every one the profits they needs , ISIS,FSA , the Turkmen Mafia , Turkish govt ?








Former NATO supreme commander genrl wissley Clark , telling turkey is supporting ISIS & is the direct beneficiary of the illegal cheap oil from ISIS ?

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## oproh

Putin bombed ergogan's jihadi brothers near turkish border

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## batmannow

oproh said:


> Putin bombed ergogan's jihadi brothers near turkish border


Its not Turkish friends also , Turkey was conspirated by NATO to support ISIS & other terrorist groups , whose last target is turkey itself ?


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## tugberksamur

madmusti said:


>


 Proof of this
From mirror website : 
A civilian pilot who was in the sky when the missile was fired claims he heard the Turkish Air Force’s warnings to the Russian fighter jet.

The pilot, who was flying a Middle East Airlines flight from Beirut’s Rafic Hariri International Airport to a Gulf country at about 9am (Lebanese time), verified the recording released to media - and says there were many similar incidents in the past.
He told Al-Arabiya: “I confirm the authenticity of their recording, I heard these exact same warnings over and over again and the part I recorded on my phone was actually towards the end when I felt the matter was getting serious.

"I heard similar warnings two or three times a week, on every flight I took for the past month.
“What was different this time is that the Turkish officer was shouting and seemed tense, while the warnings were much calmer in previous times… this is why I knew something was going to happen,” he added.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

batmannow said:


> Its not Turkish friends also , Turkey was conspirated by NATO to support ISIS & other terrorist groups , whose last target is turkey itself ?



why should NATO target it´s own member?

Pentagon trying to Lure Russia and China, maybe India too into Syria to bleed them dry.

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## 500

ptldM3 said:


> Based off of the Turkish radar image and flight path that is a lie. The area in question that the SU-24 flew over was 3 km. If the aircraft violated Turkish airspace it was no more then 17 seconds.


TuAF warned Su-24 BEFORE crossing the border.



> Now with SU-30sm escorts and the s-400 any hostile Turkish aircraft can be shot down deep inside Turkey.


Su-30 carry ancient passive missiles, better not try with AMRAAM equipped F-16. Also shooting down Turkish jets means goodbye to Bosporus and fast fall of Giraffe regime (or what remained of that regime).


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## damm1t

ptldM3 said:


> Based off of the Turkish radar image and flight path that is a lie. The area in question that the SU-24 flew over was 3 km. If the aircraft violated Turkish airspace it was no more then 17 seconds.



According to new RoE announced in 2012, every military assets heading to Turkish airspace will be treated as enemy targets starting from 15-30 miles to Turkish airspace. Russian jet has been warned many times started from 30 miles away to Turkish airspace. When it entered we shot it down. Before this incident Russia violated our airspace and got warned, military delegations discussed about issue, Russians guaranteed this will not gonna happen again but it happened. Doesn't matter 10 seconds or 10 minutes. Unless you don't respect other countries' soveregnity useless to whimper later.



ptldM3 said:


> As for Turkey crying about airspace violations they regularly violate Greek airspace, Syrian airspace, and Iraqi airspace. Now with SU-30sm escorts and the s-400 any hostile Turkish aircraft can be shot down deep inside Turkey.



We don't violate Greek airspace, we just don't recognise their self-declared airspace. This is more complicated for you. And about violating airspaces Russia is hi-level criminal.

NATO: Russia is a noncompliant airspace violator (POLL)

Btw, S-xxx are within the range, so better not to try violate others airspace again.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

@wanglaokan

don´t run away now. The Party has just started. anybody awaits your crapy chinese Bombers to shoot them down now. LOL


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## ptldM3

damm1t said:


> According to new RoE announced in 2012, every military assets heading to Turkish airspace will be treated as enemy targets starting from 15-30 miles to Turkish airspace. Russian jet has been warned many times started from 30 miles away to Turkish airspace. When it entered we shot it down. Before this incident Russia violated our airspace and got warned, military delegations discussed about issue, Russians guaranteed this will not gonna happen again but it happened. Doesn't matter 10 seconds or 10 minutes. Unless you don't respect other countries' soveregnity useless to whimper later.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't violate Greek airspace, we just don't recognise their self-declared airspace. This is more complicated for you. And about violating airspaces Russia is hi-level criminal.
> 
> NATO: Russia is a noncompliant airspace violator (POLL)
> 
> Btw, S-xxx are within the range, so better not to try violate others airspace again.




You use excuses, Turkey has violated Greek airspace thousands of times, they have violated Syrian airspace many times and Iraqi airspace and payed for it (F-4 shoot down, F-16 shot down). They are one of the worst violators when it comes to respecting airspace and now they are crying. As for Turkish foolish behavior of treating all aircraft as enemy targets within 30 miles of its airspace. Does this mean that Turkey owns the airspace around Georgia, Syria, Iraq, ect? Of course not, the, today Russian aircraft bombarded a Turkish "aid convoy" near the Turkish border and Turkey did nothing. Now with fighter escort the Turks will do nothing.

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## drunken-monke

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> why should NATO target it´s own member?
> 
> Pentagon trying to Lure Russia and China, maybe *India* too into Syria to bleed them dry.



Seriously??

We fight for our own.. there is nothing for India to involved.. Is there any??


----------



## Aslan

PatriotLover said:


> Get lost....
> 
> 
> 
> What are you talking about, there is enough pictures and videos of dead children and women online who were killed by Russian bombing. Are you calling them terrorists?
> 
> This reply to @batmannow also


Why do u think we can't post those pics anymore.

How else can the truth be supresed


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## surya kiran

batmannow said:


> Its not Turkish friends also , Turkey was conspirated by NATO to support ISIS & other terrorist groups , whose last target is turkey itself ?



This is Afghanistan all over again. And damn, it is going to get dirty. Pull out all investments from Turkey and dump it in Pakistan. And I am not kidding here.



500 said:


> Su-30 carry ancient passive missiles, better not try with AMRAAM equipped F-16. Also shooting down Turkish jets means goodbye to Bosporus and fast fall of Giraffe regime (or what remained of that regime).



What better way to test missiles than somebody else using them in a real war.

Btw, you chaps supplying any stuff to either side?


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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

Israel will realy backstab Putin when time arrives LOL

russians are a threat for Zion. they Need to be destroyed.


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## ANMDT

ptldM3 said:


> Based off of the Turkish radar image and flight path that is a lie. The area in question that the SU-24 flew over was 3 km. If the aircraft violated Turkish airspace it was no more then 17 seconds.
> 
> As for Turkey crying about airspace violations they regularly violate Greek airspace, Syrian airspace, and Iraqi airspace. Now with SU-30sm escorts and the s-400 any hostile Turkish aircraft can be shot down deep inside Turkey.


Iraqi Airspace violation of such you call is based on the agreement made with saddam regime, There is no violation or the new governments didnt as for a revise as well . Also we have right to hot-track the terrorists into iraq based on this agreement.

Syrian airspace ? Even we hit IS targets witout passing border.

Remember because of what the engagement rules are tightened, syrian shot down turkish fighter with no warning while off to international border ( But claimed to be extended on syrian side) "without warning " because they couldnt show any proof of warning a record or whatever. Even in 1st speech the Assad told he has no "information" on what happened probably some soldiers pampered by Russia in those times ,did it. , 
Come on everyone knows how Russian think themselves as " full of prestige" , even Turkey had meetings several times with them and indicated this point of airspace violation multiple times, and now one Douchebag pilot ignores the calls on emergency frequency which is even heard by passenger planes then Turkey is accused of shooting down? . Who gives Russian pilots to do Shortcuts over turkey ? Are their pilot disabled on turning around ? We should questionaire on the rather than just trolling by accusations on Turkey.

Neither S-400 nor a fighter plane can thouch a flying bird in the Turkish airspace as we are not intended on passing border, so everything is fine. Just a few weeks ago the same happened, and you trolls were moving around " ehehhee Turkey is scared of Russia and just warned the fighter cant do any else" now you saw we can do the things and pain the a$$ should be so deep till you cant relieve it. 

The plane is warned since 30 miles as their direction was "toward " turkish airspace , 10 miles and 5 miles the warnings got more frequent reaching up to 10 in total, It was realized that they are not changing the direction eventhough it got sure they are passing the border and they are hit. Also they didnt identify themselves and we dont IFF system would give them a neutral sign, so should we know its a russian plane by visual contact? be realistic. Eventhough it doesnt matter whether its russian or syrian. The planes were already got the call but they were trolls as you to pass by Turkey's airspace, and crying like a kid once they are hit 

Anyway just in hours we could release the radar flight path , it took russia to do a day and more and they came with a MS paint work shows F-16 TuAF had a sharp turn is about 100g  And weirdly Russian plane has flied as normally. They are aware of this fact and its so sad you fools are believing their lies.

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## ptldM3

500 said:


> TuAF warned Su-24 BEFORE crossing the border.




Yea, because you were the radar operator right? The rescued pilot/navigator said he flew in the area many times before and he visually knew where the Syrian, Turkish border was, he said no warning were given, no visual identifications were given, ect. The Turkish voice recorder, was pathetic and proved nothing. I could not even understand what was said because of the piss poor English and static.






500 said:


> Su-30 carry ancient passive missiles, better not try with AMRAAM equipped F-16. Also shooting down Turkish jets means goodbye to Bosporus and fast fall of Giraffe regime (or what remained of that regime).





Another idiot comment by 500. SU-30s cary R-77's which are newer then the AIM-120s "AMRAAM" but lets even say the missile were some ancient 1960s missiles--they would still have the capability to down F-16s. The point of the story is the Russians now have SU-30s to escort bombers as well as the S-400 both are capable of destroying F-16s deep inside Turkey. The SU-30SM is a brand new aircraft, they are much more capable then the aging Turkish F-16s.

Russia bombed a Turkish convoy on the border Turkey did nothing just like they did nothing when SU-30 had a radar lock on F-16s several weeks ago.

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## ANMDT

Jason Zhao said:


> it is so crazy excuse


Who says russia is untouchable are they God? 
Doesnt matter we know or not, the King of the world even didnt condescend to identify themselves so its a hit, proofs are everywhere .

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## Ceylal

tugberksamur said:


> Proof of this
> From mirror website :
> A civilian pilot who was in the sky when the missile was fired claims he heard the Turkish Air Force’s warnings to the Russian fighter jet.
> 
> The pilot, who was flying a Middle East Airlines flight from Beirut’s Rafic Hariri International Airport to a Gulf country at about 9am (Lebanese time), verified the recording released to media - and says there were many similar incidents in the past.
> He told Al-Arabiya: “I confirm the authenticity of their recording, I heard these exact same warnings over and over again and the part I recorded on my phone was actually towards the end when I felt the matter was getting serious.
> 
> "I heard similar warnings two or three times a week, on every flight I took for the past month.
> “What was different this time is that the Turkish officer was shouting and seemed tense, while the warnings were much calmer in previous times… this is why I knew something was going to happen,” he added.


The Turkish Gov is flip flopping between their own version , going from warning to not knowing it was a Russian aircraft. The reason behind the downing of the aircraft is , that the Russian have destroyed all Ergodan's son truck fleed that were hauling ISIS oil to Turkey..There is no other reason but that...The Russian plane wasn't a threat to Turkey proper but it was a threat to Turkey's double dealing and closeness to ISIS, otherwise, the Russian would not have send a bomber in a hostile sky with a proper escort.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

maybe the russian garbage exploded itself?

*LOL*


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## damm1t

I will answer one by one.



ptldM3 said:


> You use excuses, Turkey has violated Greek airspace thousands of times, they have violated Syrian airspace many times and Iraqi airspace and payed for it



First educate yourself on this.

*The threat of extending Greek territorial waters beyond their present width of 6 miles ( Greece extended her territorial waters from 3 miles to 6 miles in 1936, Turkey followed suit in 1964), the remilitarization of the Eastern Aegean Islands placed under demilitarized status by virtue of the very agreements ceding them to Greece, a 10 mile "national air space" over territorial waters of 6, abuse of the FIR service responsibility as if it confers sovereignty (request of flight plans from state aircraft and allegations of "violations of" Athens FIR) can be counted among the issues which are the real underlying causes of the Turco-Greek conflict in the Aegean.*

Background Note on Aegean Disputes / Rep. of Turkey Ministry of Foreign Affairs



ptldM3 said:


> (F-4 shoot down, F-16 shot down).



Which F-16 ?



ptldM3 said:


> They are one of the worst violators when it comes to respecting airspace and now they are crying.



http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/bully-baltics-kremlin’s-provocations
Despite NATO Warnings, Russia Has A History Of Violating Airspace In Turkey, Baltics

In 2014, Russian military planes violated Estonian airspace 7 times, Latvian airspace more than 180 times and approached Lithuanian airspace more than 150 times.
Graphic show show Russian violations and provocations only in 2015.









ptldM3 said:


> As for Turkish foolish behavior of treating all aircraft as enemy targets within 30 miles of its airspace . Does this mean that Turkey owns the airspace around Georgia, Syria, Iraq, ect?



Since you have problems to understand what you read i make things clear for you. If a military asset heading towards Turkish airspace, TuAF alarms as it's an enemy move and warns the target. If it doesnt change the course its treated as enemy target. We don't own the 30 mile airspace of others, it's just expanded alarm distance according to new rules of engagement.



ptldM3 said:


> Of course not, the, today Russian aircraft bombarded a Turkish "aid convoy" near the Turkish border and Turkey did nothing. Now with fighter escort the Turks will do nothing.



So you are proud of bombing aid trucks and civillians? ISIS doesn't present in this area you and I know it. Putin is being watchdog of Assad to keep FSA away. Turkmens fight within FSA and Turkey support them clearly. Russia is not bombing ISIS all they do is trying to save Assad's ***.

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## kollang

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> maybe the russian garbage exploded itself?
> 
> *LOL*


@mods 

With -15 negative ratings and only 40 thanks per 120 posts, dont you think you have to ban this racist a@@hole?

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## 500

ptldM3 said:


> Yea, because you were the radar operator right? The rescued pilot/navigator said he flew in the area many times before and he visually knew where the Syrian, Turkish border was, he said no warning were given, no visual identifications were given, ect. The Turkish voice recorder, was pathetic and proved nothing. I could not even understand what was said because of the piss poor English and static.


Thats standard procedure used by Turkey and it is confirmed by released record.



> Another idiot comment by 500. SU-30s cary R-77's which are newer then the AIM-120s "AMRAAM"


Yes sure:







> but lets even say the missile were some ancient 1960s missiles--they would still have the capability to down F-16s.


I would not advice to.



> The point of the story is the Russians now have SU-30s to escort bombers as well as the S-400 both are capable of destroying F-16s deep inside Turkey. The SU-30SM is a brand new aircraft, they are much more capable then the aging Turkish F-16s.


Su-30 is just Su-27 mod, same era with F-16. What matters is equipment. AMRAAM >>> R-27.



> Russia bombed a Turkish convoy on the border Turkey did nothing just like they did nothing when SU-30 had a radar lock on F-16s several weeks ago.


U can lock radars, but if u shoot down Turkish F-16 say goodbye to Bosporus.


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## ptldM3

isoo said:


> Syrian airspace ? Even we hit IS targets witout passing border.







Yea sure you do. It's know that thousands of terrorists have crossed from Turkey and Turkey is the primary funder of ISIS buy buying their cheap oil.






isoo said:


> Remember because of what the engagement rules are tightened, syrian shot down turkish fighter with no warning while off to international border ( But claimed to be extended on syrian side) "without warning " because they couldnt show any proof of warning a record or whatever. Even in 1st speech the Assad told he has no "information" on what happened probably some soldiers pampered by Russia in those times ,did it. ,







And Urdigan, or whatever his name is, stated that there was no reason for the shoot down of the F-4 if it was in Syrian airspace only briefly. What a hypocrite--nothing new here coming from one of the worst violators of airspace in the region.






isoo said:


> Come on everyone knows how Russian think themselves as " full of prestige" , even Turkey had meetings several times with them and indicated this point of airspace violation multiple times, and now one Douchebag pilot ignores the calls on emergency frequency which is even heard by passenger planes then Turkey is accused of shooting down? . Who gives Russian pilots to do Shortcuts over turkey ? Are their pilot disabled on turning around ? We should questionaire on the rather than just trolling by accusations on Turkey.







You cry about Russia's supposed incursion into Turkish airspace which only lasted seconds (if it even happened) yet Turkey has violated Greek airspace more then 1400 times in 2014, not to mention it regularly violates Syrian airspace. 






isoo said:


> *Neither S-400 nor a fighter plane can thouch a flying bird in the Turkish airspace as we are not intended on passing border*, so everything is fine. Just a few weeks ago the same happened, and you trolls were moving around " ehehhee Turkey is scared of Russia and just warned the fighter cant do any else" now you saw we can do the things and pain the a$$ should be so deep till you cant relieve it.





Russia could have easily retaliated by sending cruise missiles and fighters into Turkey, but cooler heads prevailed. The problem is that by doing so Russia will face most of NATO because as you know Turkey is a cowardly country that hides behind NATO, just like it ran for "consultation" to NATO after the attack and then made statements that it did not know the aircraft was Russian.

Russia will not hesitate to shoot down Turkish aircraft if they feel they could be a treat. After Turkey protested and threatened Russia that Turkmen were being bombed by Russia, what does Russia do? They bomb a Turkish "aid convoy" on the border in retaliation for the downed bomber. Russia is looking to bait Turkish fighters and so far the Turks are backing down because they know Russia will not hesitate to shoot down Turkish fighters.

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## Rangila

*TASS: Russian Politics & Diplomacy - Harm from attack on Su-24 hard to heal, Moscow wants sensible explanations — Kremlin
*
It was too serious an incident with very grave, unavoidable consequences, Kremlin spokesman underlines

*TASS: World - Turkey makes big mistake by downing Russian jet — Iranian parliament speaker*

The US president’s support of this action is an even bigger mistake that further intensifies the conflicts in the region, speaker of Iran’s Majlis (parliament) Ali Larijani point out

S-400 Triumf in Syria: Russia Gives 'Stark Warning' to Turkey | Indian Defence News

"It was an aerial ambush, which means that it was a planned operation. It was authorized," he noted, adding that those behind the downing had several goals in mind.


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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

@kollang 

worry about your mullamulla Regime in WW3. You will be NO.1 target practice of Israel Missile Forces.

than we will see who is going to be wiped off the map?!


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## Arsalan

A.Muqeet khan said:


> and nothing will happen if we cheer or not. our cheering does not impact the political decisions so it doesn't matter what we do. We can throw tantrums all day long and Olivia Wilde will not kiss jennifer lopez , these are fu****g countries you are talking about.


It do show the maturity of oneself and even the general thinking attitude as a group. To say the least, the cheering crowd should be ashamed. It is lives and people we are talking about.
It is just like saying that we should sing a song a funeral as our mourning wont bring back the dead. Let us all have some sense!


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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

chinese and iranian fanboys here chear the deaths of turkmen women and children by russian bombs, so the rest of world can also chear the death of russky wannabes getting burned azz by NATO power.

LOOOOOOL


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## Leviza

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @kollang
> 
> worry about your mullamulla Regime in WW3. You will be NO.1 target practice of Israel Missile Forces.
> 
> than we will see who is going to be wiped off the map?!



Engagement of illegal state shows the nature of event here ... Turkey is being used by USA and illegal state here that is why Turkey went straight back to NATO ... 

I respect Turkey as a Pakistani but want them to learn from what Iraq/Pakistan and other nations had done wrong and being used by USA but Pakistan came back with full force ... and NATO want give the same opportunity to Turkey ... 

I stand with Turkey but on the same side i want my friend to know that when USA and illegal state playing games in your Backyard , your actions/steps needs to be very calculated ... 

Taking down one fighter is not the issue here, Pakistan could have done it too, but managing the diplomatic pressure afterwards is totally a different game ..

NATO and general public will simply get and ask questions whose side turkey is .. if turkey is concerned about turkman but they are on other side of the border then be very careful as they do not come under NATO ...

USA playing games by keeping turkey on front ... against russia as they do not want to be direct with russia ..Obama statement is the reflection of it ...



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> chinese and iranian fanboys here chear the deaths of turkmen women and children by russian bombs, so the rest of world can also chear the death of russky wannabes getting burned azz by NATO power.
> 
> LOOOOOOL


from when you are concerned about the turkman and killing innocent civil public in gaza ? shame on you

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## ptldM3

500 said:


> Thats standard procedure used by Turkey and it is confirmed by released record.





We have a short audio that proves nothing. Governments lie a lot, so it would not surprise me if it was fake. Suppose it was real, I could not even understand what was being said in that audio because the person's English and the static/backround noise was so terrible. 

In any case i find it ironic that you would even come into this conversation about standard procedures and such. Israel just like Turkey are the biggest violators when it comes to illegally entering foreign airspace.







500 said:


> Yes sure:







Both missiles are very capable and have evolved over the years just like aircraft themselves evolve. Those missiles are very capable of shooting down any aircraft. The SU-30SM still uses the R-77 even if you found some pictures of T-73s.





500 said:


> I would not advice to.
> 
> 
> Su-30 is just Su-27 mod, same era with F-16. What matters is equipment. AMRAAM >>> R-27.







What a childish comment. Then the F-16 blk 60 is just an F-16 blk15 mod right? The SU-30SM has nothing in common to the SU-27 besides basic airframe and even then the SU-30's airframe is modified and has a weapons system operator. Radar, ECM, engines, ect are all different.


The SU-30SM just entered service recently, the F-16 blk52 is getting old. Even older SU-30s are superior to F-16blk 52s according to one US airmen. As for your "AMRAAM", the oldest model in almost 25 years old. I could also claim R-77>>>AIM-120.







500 said:


> U can lock radars, but if u shoot down Turkish F-16 say goodbye to Bosporus.







Ignorant comment. If SU-30s can achieve radar lock then they can shoot down any aircraft. Recently there was reports that an SU-30 had radar lock for 5 minutes on an F-16 (5 minutes is an eternity). The F-16 could not break the lock by maneuvers nor could it break the lock by jamming. As for Russia possibly shooting down Turkish F-16s in the future. Turkey has had aircraft shot down by the Greeks and Syrians, not much was done about it.

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## kollang

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @kollang
> 
> worry about your mullamulla Regime in WW3. You will be NO.1 target practice of Israel Missile Forces.
> 
> than we will see who is going to be wiped off the map?!


Iran is here to stay, for 4000 years almost.however your fake tiny country is already loosing its existence to bunch of bared @@s Palestinians.dont really want to mention our balistic missile arsenal that will wipe you off before your nuclear balisitic missile takes to the sky.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

@Leviza

Israel helped you Pakistanis. don´t be so ungratefull and jelous.


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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> why should NATO target it´s own member?
> 
> Pentagon trying to Lure Russia and China, maybe India too into Syria to bleed them dry.


Why not ?
If it can bring the whole conflict on to them , & they are about to exposed they won't take second it to blame turkey , which also a Muslim state ?
You think , NATO is loyal to turkey ?
No they don't , if they can get rid of sirya,s Asad govt , then the next target will be turkey ?
They don't need any Muslim state in EU ?
Wakeup ,turkey !

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## tugberksamur

Ceylal said:


> The Turkish Gov is flip flopping between their own version , going from warning to not knowing it was a Russian aircraft. The reason behind the downing of the aircraft is , that the Russian have destroyed all Ergodan's son truck fleed that were hauling ISIS oil to Turkey..There is no other reason but that...The Russian plane wasn't a threat to Turkey proper but it was a threat to Turkey's double dealing and closeness to ISIS, otherwise, the Russian would not have send a bomber in a hostile sky with a proper escort.


You are missing something.The explanation of Goverment and army at the beginning was about an unknown plane.Oh there is nothing about oil tankers. Those planes were bombing turkmens more and more than ISIS.Russia bombed 2-3 times ISIS then continued its real purpose for helping Assad forces.And yes those planes were threat for turkey according to ROE and even 1 month ago, russians entered turkish border and locked radar on our f16s.Turkey said this will not tolerated.Then they entered with UAV and we shot it down.Stop having bias and being ignorant.As you see in the map, Russia is not here for ISIS.


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## batmannow

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @Leviza
> 
> Israel helped you Pakistanis. don´t be so ungratefull and jelous.


We also helped them , that's why we don't have dam Israeli embsy in our country ?
Its turkey the best friend of Israel ?

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

batmannow said:


> We also helped them , that's why we don't have dam Israeli embsy in our country ?
> Its turkey the best friend of Israel ?



YES turky is best pet of ISRAEL. now STFU idiotic third worlder.

ehühehehe

kemalism it what Counts and Turkey has a huge Military potencial to use for Zion Agenda. now shh.. and piss off you are spoiling all our secret plans.

HAHAHA


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## Leviza

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @Leviza
> 
> Israel helped you Pakistanis. don´t be so ungratefull and jelous.


are you using 2 Ids ? joined yesterday ???

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## United

Proud Turkish F-16 pilot. The one who shot down the Russian SU-24

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## batmannow

tugberksamur said:


> You are missing something.The explanation of Goverment and army at the beginning was about an unknown plane.Oh there is nothing about oil tankers. Those planes were bombing turkmens more and more than ISIS.Russia bombed 2-3 times ISIS then continued its real purpose for helping Assad forces.And yes those planes were threat for turkey according to ROE and even 1 month ago, russians entered turkish border and locked radar on our f16s.Turkey said this will not tolerated.Then they entered with UAV and we shot it down.Stop having bias and being ignorant.


Sure the Russians were bombing the armed Turkmen maltia , which is basicly been established to support ISIS terrorists , the arms & ammunition were sent & escorted by these Turkmen to ISIS terrorists on the front lines & they been paid from the oil money which Isis sells to turkey ?
So its the basic substance , on which this terrorists organisation is running on ?
Any army , fighting in anywhere will cut the enemies supply lines , so does the Turkmen maltia is a logical target to any opposing army against ISIS , but that's the reason which hurts turkey most & that's what turkey wants to achive by downing Russian jet , its simply telling Russians that we won't stop our support to ISIS ?



NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> YES turky is best pet of ISRAEL. now STFU idiotic third worlder.
> 
> ehühehehe
> 
> kemalism it what Counts and Turkey has a huge Military potencial to use for Zion Agenda. now shh.. and piss off you are spoiling all our secret plans.
> 
> HAHAHA


Oh really , shall I say shalom , stupid Rabbi ?lolzz

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER

United said:


> Proud Turkish F-16 pilot. The one who shot down the Russian SU-24



RUSSIANs will kill this guy sooner or later.

mark my words dumb turks. you Play with fire!

HAHA


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## tugberksamur

batmannow said:


> Sure the Russians were bombing the armed Turkmen maltia , which is basicly been established to support ISIS terrorists , the arms & ammunition were sent & escorted by these Turkmen to ISIS terrorists on the front lines & they been paid from the oil money which Isis sells to turkey ?
> So its the basic substance , on which this terrorists organisation is running on ?
> Any army , fighting in anywhere will cut the enemies supply lines , so does the Turkmen maltia is a logical target to any opposing army against ISIS , but that's the reason which hurts turkey most & that's what turkey wants to achive by downing Russian jet , its simply telling Russians that we won't stop our support to ISIS ?
> 
> 
> Oh really , shall I say shalom , stupid Rabbi ?lolzz


Troll please, you even do not know turkmens are part of fsa which fights against ISIS


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## tesla

rusia public had wanted war with with turkiye  we want see russian land forces in Anatolia and Syria

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## BLACKEAGLE



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## faisal6309

NUCLEAR_WINTER said:


> @Leviza
> 
> Israel helped you Pakistanis. don´t be so ungratefull and jelous.


I would love to know how.

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## ANMDT

ptldM3 said:


> retaliated by sending cruise missiles and fighters into Turkey,


Fools like you would do that, not the sane people


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## 500

ptldM3 said:


> We have a short audio that proves nothing. Governments lie a lot, so it would not surprise me if it was fake. Suppose it was real, I could not even understand what was being said in that audio because the person's English and the static/backround noise was so terrible.


I heard well even from my mobile speaker.



> In any case i find it ironic that you would even come into this conversation about standard procedures and such. Israel just like Turkey are the biggest violators when it comes to illegally entering foreign airspace.


Assadists set these rules when shot down the F-4.



> Both missiles are very capable and have evolved over the years just like aircraft themselves evolve. Those missiles are very capable of shooting down any aircraft. The SU-30SM still uses the R-77 even if you found some pictures of T-73s.


Find me pics of R-77 in Latakia.



> What a childish comment. Then the F-16 blk 60 is just an F-16 blk15 mod right?


Of course it is.



> The SU-30SM has nothing in common to the SU-27 besides basic airframe and even then the SU-30's airframe is modified and has a weapons system operator. Radar, ECM, engines, ect are all different.
> 
> The SU-30SM just entered service recently, the F-16 blk52 is getting old. Even older SU-30s are superior to F-16blk 52s according to one US airmen.


Su-30SM is similar level to F-16 block 52. But Turks have AMRAAMs and Su-30 does not have R-77.

Anywayz this talk is useless, Russia cant shot Turkish warplanes coz that means goodbye to Bosporus.

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## batmannow

tugberksamur said:


> Troll please, you even do not know turkmens are part of fsa which fights against ISIS


& you don't know that's just a stupid prapoganda , by allied terrorists , against one common enemy called Asad govt ?

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## A.Muqeet khan

I don't think anyone with an ounce of sense was expecting a world war, which is what would happen if Russia invaded a NATO country like Turkey. The whole NATO pact hinges on collective defense of each other's territory. While it is arguable whether NATO would defend a Turkish plane downed in Syria, there is no question that NATO would be obliged to defend an invasion of Turkey.



The significant and major escalation that I see for now (and more may come in the future, it's only a bit over 24 hours since the shooting), consists of two things:


The Russians' stated intention of bringing in S-400 batteries into Syria and the relocation of the Russian missile destroyer off the Latakia coast.


The Russians' stated intention of providing a fighter escort for each bomber in Syria from now on.

Let's get the second one over quickly since it's simple. With planes from Syria, Russia and NATO now flying over Syria, it increases the risk of bad stuff happening. Someone could get trigger happy, someone could get nervous. A plane has now been downed and every pilot flying over this region will be nervous from now on.

And now the real big problem, namely the S-400. With a 400 km range, this covers almost all of Syrian airspace, a good third of Turkey, all of Lebanon, parts of Jordan and Iraq, and northern Israel. While we can argue about the exact capabilities of the S-400, pretty much everyone acknowledges that it could make it very very dangerous for the air forces of all those countries if it was used against them.

In fact, Israel has been bargaining hard with Russia to keep the S-400 out of Syria. Not so much because Israel cares about Syria, but because an S-400 battery in Syria covers all of Lebanese airspace, which Israel considers its own. If there was an S-400 battery in the wrong hands, it would be a serious danger to Israeli warplanes over Lebanon.

This incident has given Russia a solid excuse to bring in the S-400. While it will be in Russian hands and not Syrian hands, it creates a bunch of problems down the line. Russia could easily train Syrian military on its use, working side by side with them. Russia could hand it over to the Syrians if and when it leaves, or simply if it's angry at the west. It could deliberately "lose" the equipment to some friendly rebels, since there are so many in the area.

This has raised the stakes in Syria. What can Israel do? Bomb Russian planes or ships carrying the S-400 to Syria? That would be a shitshow. Put pressure on the US to get tougher with Russia? That's escalation too, and gives the Russians more excuse to dig in.

I see nothing good has come from this. Losing a plane and a couple of pilots isn't a huge loss for Russia. It hasn't produced the outcome the Turks hoped for, which was to prevent Russia from bombing Turkmen at the border. In fact, Russia doubled down on those bombings since their plane was shot down, and I doubt many Turkmen villages will survive the bombings to come.

Meanwhile, it has given Russia excuse to bring in sophisticated weapons into Syria, some of which were the subject of intense debate as late as last week. Now the debate is irrelevant, because Russia can justly claim it needs to bring them in to protect its assets.

So while I can understand Turkey's anger at the violation of their air space, I think their response is only going to make things worse for Turkey, worse for Syria, worse for NATO objectives in Syria, worse for NATO's "good rebels" in Syria. And it's made the situation more fragile, bringing the trigger closer.

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## ptldM3

500 said:


> I heard well even from my mobile speaker.






Your're full of it, i am inclined to beleive you havn't even listed to the audio because it is indistinguishable. I was reading an article and native English speakers commented that they did not understand what was being said in the audio, one person said they had to listen to it 3 times.





500 said:


> Assadists set these rules when shot down F-4.





Assadists? Come up with something original. As for setting rules, Turkish aircraft can expect to be blown out of the sky next time they violate Syrian airspace. Hopefully the Greeks will shoot down another Turkish F-16. It's very obvious why Turkey shot the aircraft down. Turkey is the one that buys cheap ISIS oil and just days before the shoot down Russia destroyed 525 ISIS fuel trucks as well as oil refineries, this had Turkey in a rage threatening Russia, not to mention Russia has been pounding other Turkish creations such as the FSA.


As for the "rules of engagement". *Turkey breached UN charter by downing the aircraft. Those are not my words but the words of a retired US Air Force Major General.* He also called the murder of the Russian pilot a war crime (which it is under the Geneva convention). But of course those "moderates" seem to get away with anything including what appears to be either desecrating the dead pilots corpse by beating him or beating him to death while he was injured. His face was bruised, cut and swollen.



http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...kish-shootdown






500 said:


> Find me pics of R-77 in Latakia.





I don't need to find anything, the R-77 is a common air-to-air missile in the Russian Air Force. The R-73 is just as lethal to an F-16 as an R-77, in fact the R-73 has some advantages over the R-77. At first people were claiming that Russia was only using 'dumb bombs' until pictures appeared of laser and satellite guided bombs, many people including experts were also unaware that Russian cruise missiles fired in Syria had such long ranges. Point is you having a few pictures or not having a few pictures proves nothing.








500 said:


> Of course it is.






You are hopeless.






500 said:


> *Su-30SM is similar level to F-16 block 52*. But Turks have AMRAAMs and Su-30 does not have R-77.







Firstly 


Secondly no, it's not. *The F-16 Block 52 dates back to 1991*. Every year computers/microprocessors are superseding each other. My smart phone has more computing power than any full size computer from the 1990s. The F-16 is outclassed by the SU-30 in almost every way. Some F-16 Block 52 have some upgrades but many block 52s are very much dated. Many F-16s are using 1980s computers, the SU-30SM, on the other hand is basically fresh from the factory.

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## BordoEnes

Erdogan response to Putin's barking:
1. We dont buy oil from Daesh, give proof or stfu
2. We will keep shooting down your fighters jets if you violate our airspace

Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan'dan Putin'e petrol yanıtı

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## madmusti

5 Turkish Weapons of War Russia Should Fear | The National Interest Blog


Our F4 Phantom Pilots ejected and was alive until we come they was dead, How ?


----------



## farag

>



While russia is killing your turkmans and turkish truck drivers, have fun drawing cartoons.



madmusti said:


> 5 Turkish Weapons of War Russia Should Fear | The National Interest Blog
> 
> 
> Our F4 Phantom Pilots ejected and was alive until we come they was dead, How ?



So ada class frigate or the old german subs are sources of fear now

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## Ceylal

tugberksamur said:


> You are missing something.The explanation of Goverment and army at the beginning was about an unknown plane.Oh there is nothing about oil tankers. Those planes were bombing turkmens more and more than ISIS.Russia bombed 2-3 times ISIS then continued its real purpose for helping Assad forces.And yes those planes were threat for turkey according to ROE and even 1 month ago, russians entered turkish border and locked radar on our f16s.Turkey said this will not tolerated.Then they entered with UAV and we shot it down.*Stop having bias and being ignorant*.As you see in the map, Russia is not here for ISIS.


I understand your position and the position of Turkey , , but the facts show otherwise, even NATO are not willing to come openly and support the case presented by Turkey. From all the indications, Russians didn't see Turkey as a threat to their aircraft , otherwise they would have had their bomber escorted, like they are doing now. I am in the believe that the Russian will get even and will reply in kind to Turkey's action.

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## NUCLEAR_WINTER




----------



## UniverseWatcher

*Turkish newspaper editor in court for 'espionage' after revealing weapon convoy to Syrian militants*

A Turkish prosecutor asked a court to imprison the editor-in-chief of Cumhuriyet newspaper pending trial for espionage and treason. In May, the outlet published photos of weapons it said were then transferred to Syria by Turkey’s intelligence agency. 
Besides the editor, Can Dündar, the prosecution said it is seeking the same pre-trial restrictions for Cumhuriyet’s representative in Ankara, Erdem Gül.

Dündar arrived at an Istanbul court on Thursday, saying that he and his colleague “came here to defend journalism.”

“We came here to defend the right of the public to obtain the news and their right to know if their government is feeding them lies. We came here to show and to prove that governments cannot engage in illegal activity and defend this,” Dündar was cited by Today’s Zaman.

The articles, published on Cumhuriyet's front page in May, claimed that Turkey’s National Intelligence Organization (MİT) is smuggling weapons in trucks into Syria and was caught doing so twice in 2014. The trucks were allegedly stopped and searched by police, with photos and videos of their contents obtained by Cumhuriyet.

The arms were reportedly delivered to extremist groups fighting against the Syrian government of President Bashar Assad, whom Ankara wants ousted from power.

The Turkish authorities denied the allegations, saying that the trucks were carrying aid to Syrian ethnic Turkmen tribespeople and labeled their interception an act of “treason” and “espionage.”


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## tugberksamur

ptldM3 said:


> Your're full of it, i am inclined to beleive you havn't even listed to the audio because it is indistinguishable. I was reading an article and native English speakers commented that they did not understand what was being said in the audio, one person said they had to listen to it 3 times.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Assadists? Come up with something original. As for setting rules, Turkish aircraft can expect to be blown out of the sky next time they violate Syrian airspace. Hopefully the Greeks will shoot down another Turkish F-16. It's very obvious why Turkey shot the aircraft down. Turkey is the one that buys cheap ISIS oil and just days before the shoot down Russia destroyed 525 ISIS fuel trucks as well as oil refineries, this had Turkey in a rage threatening Russia, not to mention Russia has been pounding other Turkish creations such as the FSA.
> 
> 
> As for the "rules of engagement". *Turkey breached UN charter by downing the aircraft. Those are not my words but the words of a retired US Air Force Major General.* He also called the murder of the Russian pilot a war crime (which it is under the Geneva convention). But of course those "moderates" seem to get away with anything including what appears to be either desecrating the dead pilots corpse by beating him or beating him to death while he was injured. His face was bruised, cut
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't need to find anything, the R-77 is a common air-to-air missile in the Russian Air Force. The R-73 is just as lethal to an F-16 as an R-77, in fact the R-73 has some advantages over the R-77. At first people were claiming that Russia was only using 'dumb bombs' until pictures appeared of laser and satellite guided bombs, many people including experts were also unaware that Russian cruise missiles fired in Syria had such long ranges. Point is you having a few pictures or not having a few pictures proves nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are hopeless.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly
> 
> 
> Secondly no, it's not. *The F-16 Block 52 dates back to 1991*. Every year computers/microprocessors are superseding each other. My smart phone has more computing power than any full size computer from the 1990s. The F-16 is outclassed by the SU-30 in almost every way. Some F-16 Block 52 have some upgrades but many block 52s are very much dated. Many F-16s are using 1980s computers, the SU-30SM, on the other hand is basically fresh from the factory.


You have an understanding problem u got nothing from over 100 pages...

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## 500

ptldM3 said:


> Your're full of it, i am inclined to beleive you havn't even listed to the audio because it is indistinguishable. I was reading an article and native English speakers commented that they did not understand what was being said in the audio, one person said they had to listen to it 3 times.


Thats their problem.



> Assadists? Come up with something original. As for setting rules, Turkish aircraft can expect to be blown out of the sky next time they violate Syrian airspace. Hopefully the Greeks will shoot down another Turkish F-16. It's very obvious why Turkey shot the aircraft down. Turkey is the one that buys cheap ISIS oil and just days before the shoot down Russia destroyed 525 ISIS fuel trucks as well as oil refineries, this had Turkey in a rage threatening Russia, not to mention Russia has been pounding other Turkish creations such as the FSA.


In 2012 Assadists shot down Turkish F-4 which very briefly (if at all) passed over Syrian territorial waters. So THEY set these rules, now they pay.



> As for the "rules of engagement". *Turkey breached UN charter by downing the aircraft. Those are not my words but the words of a retired US Air Force Major General.* He also called the murder of the Russian pilot a war crime (which it is under the Geneva convention). But of course those "moderates" seem to get away with anything including what appears to be either desecrating the dead pilots corpse by beating him or beating him to death while he was injured. His face was bruised, cut and swollen.
> 
> http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blo...kish-shootdown


These are thousands of retired generals in US. Who cares. I repeat its Assadists themselves who set these rules.



> I don't need to find anything


You cant, because there are not R-77 on Su-30 in Latakia.



> , the R-77 is a common air-to-air missile in the Russian Air Force.


No its not.



> Secondly no, it's not. *The F-16 Block 52 dates back to 1991*. Every year computers/microprocessors are superseding each other. My smart phone has more computing power than any full size computer from the 1990s. The F-16 is outclassed by the SU-30 in almost every way. Some F-16 Block 52 have some upgrades but many block 52s are very much dated. Many F-16s are using 1980s computers, the SU-30SM, on the other hand is basically fresh from the factory.


Russia still cant copy LANTIRN from 1980-es. So I was optimistic when compared Su-30 to F-16 block-52.

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## fox 2

@ptldM3 You listened just a AUDIO TAPE who have some parasites. I listened shorter and clear version that our guy speaking very well english with clear voice. Even Netharland official and passanger planes said we heard it. NATO USA said we heard it. So nobody take care of your stupid lies like talking the other pilot. Of course he will say '' oo we don't do nothing, we heard nothing''.

Yeah anyway it's my father who crossed border two times and apologized last month !!!!!!!!!!


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## Beidou2020

BordoEnes said:


> Erdogan response to Putin's barking:
> 1. We dont buy oil from Daesh, give proof or stfu
> 2. We will keep shooting down your fighters jets if you violate our airspace
> 
> Cumhurbaşkanı Erdoğan'dan Putin'e petrol yanıtı



1. Why is Erdogan not protecting the Turkmen?
2. S-400 will take care of the Turkish Air Force.

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## fox 2

Beidou2020 said:


> 1. Why is Erdogan not protecting the Turkmen?
> 2. S-400 will take care of the Turkish Air Force.


1.How can Erdoğan protect Turkmens ? To invade Syria ? I know what you think, it's not about Russia. We didn't enter Syria to protect Turkmens before. We just supporting them to stay overthere..
2. Even when we bombing the ISIL positions (with 100 km guided bombs) with USA coalition we didnt enter Syria airspace because of our problems.
So we are not entering the Syria air space already. We just entering Iraq airspace 25-30 km to bomb PKK.
So S-400 can't touch our planes in our airspace or Iraq . If it touched, that system will be destroyed immediately before we heard the news don't worry. We speaking the system even in our artillery range

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## 500

Beidou2020 said:


> 2. S-400 will take care of the Turkish Air Force.


S-400 is in Syria since several weeks at least:








__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/665260286228623360
Russian MoD lied as usual they are not there:

Russia Denies Rumors of S-400 Air Defense Systems' Deployment in Syria

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## Kamil_baku

Siavash said:


> Next Thanksgiving I will definitely have live Turkey!I will give it 10 warnings in Farsi to run and then butcher it! I promise!


You farsi members here are nothing more than air baloon.. shame on you guys that you use the word promise for any shit.. Learn something from Turks. we promised and we downed the plane...keep barking kids, we are busy with actions..

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## xenon54 out

Kamil_baku said:


> You farsi members here are nothing more than air baloon.. shame on you guys that you use the word promise for any shit.. Learn something from Turks. we promised and we downed the plane...keep barking kids, we are busy with actions..


Kedi ulasamadigi cigere mundar dermis.

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## Naifov

farag said:


> While russia is killing your turkmans and turkish truck drivers, have fun drawing cartoons.
> 
> 
> 
> So ada class frigate or the old german subs are sources of fear now



The Russian are also killing civilians in Syria, but hey, why would you care, Sisi also did it in Rabia gainst his own people.

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## xenon54 out

Naifov said:


> The Russian are also killing civilians in Syria, but hey, why would you care, Sisi also did it in Rabia gainst his own people.


There is an unspoken rule in PDF, every eastern country claiming to be fighting isis is angel and if you diasagree then you are terrorist supporter.

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## anon45

500 said:


> S-400 is in Syria since several weeks at least:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/665260286228623360
> Russian MoD lied as usual they are not there:
> 
> Russia Denies Rumors of S-400 Air Defense Systems' Deployment in Syria



Actually very likely given past Russian actions. You can't ever take what they say at face value. Remember Crimea.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Siavash said:


> Next Thanksgiving I will definitely have live Turkey!I will give it 10 warnings in Farsi to run and then butcher it! I promise!



Aren't you afraid of that Turkey? Don't you remember what did it do to you?

Battle of Chaldiran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was so humiliating, more humiliating than the way a turkey eats a poor worm.



farag said:


> While russia is killing your turkmans and turkish truck drivers, have fun drawing cartoons.


Why you guys always feel to be compelled to suck up to somebody? If you don't want to support your Arab brothers, then it's fine but don't suck up to their enemies and call yourself an Arab nationalist. It's disgusting and pathetic.

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## Kamil_baku

If i could send this video to Putins personal email, probably his plane wouldnt be downed by Turkey... my bad! 
Turkish Army In Action - Türk Silahlı Kuvvetleri - Aksiyon - YouTube

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## farhan_9909

As i said earlier,nothing will happen but one thing Turkey has proved that they won't compromise their sovereignty even if they have to engage a far more powerful adversary.

I can only dream of something of this standard our leaders could do.

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## madmusti

@farag 

Old but far ahead is that German Subs & Ships in Class of Technology & Quality.


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## fox 2

Russia acting like a child. We only communicate in diplomatic ways but they are starting a proxy war against us.
They completely shocked.
These are for the reputation i understand. Can't blame them. 

BTW hey iranians your mothers crying and protesting of thousands deads in Syria.You can't saving the Baas regime even with your fighters. 
Pity mullahs.

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## ptldM3

zenmastera said:


> * Russia acting like a child.* We only communicate in diplomatic ways but they are starting a proxy war against us.
> They completely shocked.
> These are for the reputation i understand. Can't blame them.
> 
> BTW hey iranians your mothers crying and protesting of thousands deads in Syria.You can't saving the Baas regime even with your fighters.
> Pity mullahs.




It's actually Turkey that is acting like a child, they breached UN charter and could have started ww3 because a Russian aircraft supposedly flew 1.3 miles into Turkey by accident, made no hostile actions and was on its way out of Turkish airspace. Russia has shown a lot of restrain to Turkey's aggressive and reckless behavior. Mind you Turkey has violated Syrian and Greek airspace thousands of times and they are complaining about this incident.

After the downing Turkey did not even contact Russia but ran to NATO for "consultation" (cowards). They now claim they did not know the aircraft was even Russia (are they that dumb and negligent?). Furthermore, visual contact was never even made with the aircraft, which is standard procedure.

Now Russia is hitting Turkey with sanctions and embargoes that will cost billions in trade. Turkey can say goodbye to ever conducting incursions into Syria again. Turkish aircraft will be shot down without warning either from air or ground. Now Russia placed surface to air missiles that can shoot down Turkish aircraft deep inside Turkey. On top of that Russia only intensified its bombing campaign targeting turkmen fighters on the border. Moreover, Russia is considering arming Kurds to fight Turkey.

Lets see:

Turkey breached UN charter when they downed the aircraft.

2 Russian servicemen were killed one was murder by "moderate" pigs which committed a war crime under the Geneva convention thanks to Turkey.

Turkey gets hit with sanctions which will cost billions.

Turkey did not even inform Russia after the downing but ran to NATO for "consultation".

Turkey claims it did not even know it shot down a Russian aircraft (morons).

Turkey never established visual contact with the aircraft.

The rescued navigator says the aircraft never entered Turkish airspace and no contact or warning was given.


The one acting like a child is Turkey. Turkey has payed a high price for their reckless move and now Turkey is trying to play nice with their diplomatic BS. I don't think they expected this kind of blow back.

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## Oublious

500 said:


> S-400 is in Syria since several weeks at least:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/665260286228623360
> Russian MoD lied as usual they are not there:
> 
> Russia Denies Rumors of S-400 Air Defense Systems' Deployment in Syria




In other words it doesn't matter, they fly again wie shoot again.


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## ptldM3

Oublious said:


> In other words it doesn't matter, they fly again wie shoot again.




Those bombers will be escorted by modern fighters. The S-400 can blow any Turkish aircraft out of the sky at a range of 250 miles, lets say Turkey does shoot down another fighter, that fighter will be attacked by SU-30s and Russia air defense systems. Even if Turkish aircraft flee they have no where to hide a mach 2 F-16 can not outrun a mach 14 missile with a range of 250 miles.

Russia can hit Turkish fighters on the ground and in the air without ever coming near Turkey.

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## Oublious

ptldM3 said:


> It's actually Turkey that is acting like a child, they breached UN charter and could have started ww3 because a Russian aircraft supposedly flew 1.3 miles into Turkey by accident, made no hostile actions and was on its way out of Turkish airspace. Russia has shown a lot of restrain to Turkey's aggressive and reckless behavior. Mind you Turkey has violated Syrian and Greek airspace thousands of times and they are complaining about this incident.
> 
> After the downing Turkey did not even contact Russia but ran to NATO for "consultation" (cowards). They now claim they did not know the aircraft was even Russia (are they that dumb and negligent?). Furthermore, visual contact was never even made with the aircraft, which is standard procedure.
> 
> Now Russia is hitting Turkey with sanctions and embargoes that will cost billions in trade. Turkey can say goodbye to ever conducting incursions into Syria again. Turkish aircraft will be shot down without warning either from air or ground. Now Russia placed surface to air missiles that can shoot down Turkish aircraft deep inside Turkey. On top of that Russia only intensified its bombing campaign targeting turkmen fighters on the border. Moreover, Russia is considering arming Kurds to fight Turkey.
> 
> Lets see:
> 
> Turkey breached UN charter when they downed the aircraft.
> 
> 2 Russian servicemen were killed one was murder by "moderate" pigs which committed a war crime under the Geneva convention thanks to Turkey.
> 
> Turkey gets hit with sanctions which will cost billions.
> 
> Turkey did not even inform Russia after the downing but ran to NATO for "consultation".
> 
> Turkey claims it did not even know it shot down a Russian aircraft (morons).
> 
> Turkey never established visual contact with the aircraft.
> 
> The rescued navigator says the aircraft never entered Turkish airspace and no contact or warning was given.
> 
> 
> The one acting like a child is Turkey. Turkey has payed a high price for their reckless move and now Turkey is trying to play nice with their diplomatic BS. I don't think they expected this kind of blow back.




You are paying the big prices and not us. You will feel the pressure in the end. Nobody is buying your gas in the end.



ptldM3 said:


> Those bombers will be escorted by modern fighters. The S-400 can blow any Turkish aircraft out of the sky at a range of 250 miles, lets say Turkey does shoot down another fighter, that fighter will be attacked by SU-30s and Russia air defense systems. Even if Turkish aircraft flee they have no where to hide a mach 2 F-16 can not outrun a mach 14 missile with a range of 250 miles.



The 250 miles range is never proven, and we have enough power to hit your sams with different weapons. We will sent you a swarm of drone, like IAI harpy. We have EW weapons and Harm missile. Your sam is in our reach of Cruise missiles and Artillery rockets so i don't now why you brought expensive toy to syria.

And for your modern escort fighters, we have enough SAM systems for you. Come to the border and you will burn your a$$.

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## ptldM3

Oublious said:


> You are paying the big prices and not us. You will feel the pressure in the end. Nobody is buying your gas in the end.




Plenty of countries are buying Russian gas, in fact *China signed a contract with Russia worth 400 billion dollars* over 30 years. Turkey and Russia did 30 billion dollars in trade last year not to mention millions of Russians vacation in Turkey bringing in large revenue for Turkey. You can kiss most of that goodbye, your economy will shrink considerably.





Oublious said:


> The 250 miles range is never proven,




Yea right? The Chinese which are buying the S-400 must be doing so without having access to this data right? And the manufacture must be lying right?






Oublious said:


> and we have enough power to hit your sams with different weapons. We will sent you a swarm of drone, like IAI harpy. We have EW weapons and Harm missile. Your sam is in our reach of Cruise missiles and Artillery rockets so i don't now why you brought expensive toy to syria.





Russia has multiple types of air defenses around Latakia. Those drones will be shot down either from air, land or sea, and no Turkish "artillery" can reach Latakia.

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## victor07

500 said:


> S-400 is in Syria since several weeks at least:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/665260286228623360
> Russian MoD lied as usual they are not there:
> 
> Russia Denies Rumors of S-400 Air Defense Systems' Deployment in Syria



Where do you see here S-300 or S-400. Compare the length of the pipe and the length of the vehicle. If you are sure that it is some different base, proof please. In another case this photo proves only that Israel has a great harvest of high quality marijuana.

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## Oublious

ptldM3 said:


> Plenty of countries are buying Russian gas, in fact *China signed a contract with Russia worth 400 billion dollars* over 30 years. Turkey and Russia did 30 billion dollars in trade last year not to mention millions of Russians vacation in Turkey bringing in large revenue for Turkey. You can kiss most of that goodbye, your economy will shrink considerably.




You don't get it, Europe don't buy from you. Now will Turkey do the same, the amount of gas what china is buying is not the same us Europe and Turkey. 400 billion over 30 years ahahaha, we buy that in 10 years, we are buying 25 billion cubic meters in 1 year. That is billions boy, so you can have you china partner.

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## TurAr

lol

Watching these braindead Ivans desperately trying to save face is priceless... I like how they think they can cripple Turkish Airforce by placing some missiles within the range of Turkish artillery and by sending a ship onto our lap...

As always, Russia played with fire but this time it got burned. Hopefully, next time it won't confuse Turkey with Ukraine or Georgia for its own sake. Because Turkey wouldn't mind humiliating it once again.

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## ptldM3

Oublious said:


> You don't get it, Europe don't buy from you. Now will Turkey do the same, the amount of gas what china is buying is not the same us Europe and Turkey. 400 billion over 30 years ahahaha, we buy that in 10 years, we are buying 25 billion cubic meters in 1 year. That is billions boy, so you can have you china partner.




No you don't get it--Europe does buy from Russia and there is no other alternatives. And we are talking about selling not buying. I am talking about exporting and not importing, Turkey spends money by importing Russia makes money from exporting.

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## Oublious

So look to the picture and wake up. You put that SAM ther we will smash that thing in pieces with every weapon in our inventory.

From ground, sea and air so this won't change a thing.


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## ptldM3

TurAr said:


> lol
> 
> Watching these braindead Ivans desperately trying to save face is priceless... I like how they think they can cripple Turkish Airforce by placing some missiles within the range of Turkish artillery and by sending a ship onto our lap...
> 
> As always, Russia played with fire but this time it got burned. Hopefully, next time it won't confuse Turkey with Ukraine or Georgia for its own sake. Because Turkey wouldn't mind humiliating it once again.




There is no artillery that is in range of the S-400, so it you that is braindead. And good luck trying to attack the base in Latakia. Russia has cruise missiles it can launch from Russia and hit targets anywhere in Turkey. Turkey has no defense other then hiding behind NATO. Even leaving nukes aside Turkey is nowhere close militarily to Russia.

Russian air defenses can shoot down virtually any aircraft in Turkish airspace. Yet Turkey can not touch a single Russian aircraft within Russian airspace. Russia can hit any target in Turkey with cruise missile launched from air land or sea almost anywhere in the world.



The turks do a lot of chest thumping by when Syria and Greece shot down Turkish aircraft to moods were different.

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## -------

ptldM3 said:


> Those bombers will be escorted by modern fighters. The S-400 can blow any Turkish aircraft out of the sky at a range of 250 miles, lets say Turkey does shoot down another fighter, that fighter will be attacked by SU-30s and Russia air defense systems. Even if Turkish aircraft flee they have no where to hide a mach 2 F-16 can not outrun a mach 14 missile with a range of 250 miles.
> 
> Russia can hit Turkish fighters on the ground and in the air without ever coming near Turkey.



Whoa there Paper Tiger. Shoot down any Turkish aircraft in Turkish territory and you'll have to clean up any mess that follows, with so many hostile neighbors russia is surrounded by one would think twice huh? or perhaps not..

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## TurAr

ptldM3 said:


> There is no artillery that is in range of the S-400. And good luck trying to attack the base in Latakia. Russia has cruise missiles it can launch from Russia and hit targets anywhere in Turkey. Turkey has no defense other then hiding behind NATO. Even leaving nukes aside Turkey is nowhere close militarily to Russia.



The mental masturbation of the sad Ivan continues I see  Might help with the burn, I don't blame you but you might not want to get that far from the realities bud. 

According to Russian's delusions, Turkey just shot down your plane and killed one of your pilots for no apparent reason and all you did was whining like the little bitches you are. How pathetic is that?

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## Oublious

The rebels have attacked Russian airbase in latakia. Deads and wounded people.

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## libertad

Oublious said:


> You don't get it, Europe don't buy from you. Now will Turkey do the same, the amount of gas what china is buying is not the same us Europe and Turkey. 400 billion over 30 years ahahaha, we buy that in 10 years, we are buying 25 billion cubic meters in 1 year. That is billions boy, so you can have you china partner.



You don't know what you're talking about Europe is still Russia #1 gas customer.


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## NL_Turk

ptldM3 said:


> No you don't get it--Europe does buy from Russia and there is no other alternatives. And we are talking about selling not buying. I am talking about exporting and not importing, Turkey spends money by importing Russia makes money from exporting.



Correct, so a Russian embargo on Turkey would hurt Russia more than it would Turkey.
You do understand that right?

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## cnleio

Russian S-400 already reached in Syria ... maybe more later


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## pher

Those turks just talk big here to overcome their fear. they can celebrate one day, but will suffer at least 10 years. the kurds leader just visited moscow today, I believe they will get their weapon from russia and money from china.


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## ptldM3

TurAr said:


> The mental masturbation of the sad Ivan continues I see  Might help with the burn, I don't blame you but you might not want to get that far from the realities bud.
> 
> *According to Russian's delusions, Turkey just shot down your plane and killed one of your pilots for no apparent reason and all you did was whining like the little bitches you are. How pathetic is that?*





Remind everyone who the bitch hiding behind NATO is. And while you are at it don't forget how both Syria and Greece downed Turkish jets. Russia just bombed a Turkish convoy on the border and Turkey sat quietly after all those threats. The Turks are now toning their rhetoric and claiming they didn't even know it was a Russian aircraft.

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## TurAr

ptldM3 said:


> Remind everyone who the bitch hiding behind NATO is. And while you are at it don't forget how both Syria and Greece downed Turkish jets.



Wait a minute. Wasn't Turkey the aggressor here? I mean, Russians seem to be pretty sure about that, which means the article 5 cannot be invoked by Turkey in case of a Russian retaliation which then means Turkey is all alone. Yet we can't see the mighty Russian bear. Where is it? Seems it is busy whining and barking when it got the spare time from humiliating itself further by bombing aid convoys in Syria.

Refresh my memory about the Greece downing Turkish jet will you? As for the Syria, it is still paying for that mistake. More than a dozen Syrian aircraft has been downed by Turkey including 3 jets and 1 helicopter since that day. The funny thing is, one of that jets happen to belong Russia

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## fox 2

I can't believe it how everbody got shocked. Angry bears and robotic nation is crazy right now.

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## waz

SiCiSi said:


> We dont need to do anything. Turkey is on its way to become another Pakistan on its own. Thats what you get when you sleep with jihadis.



Pakistan is doing very well at the moment dear chap. Attacks have been bought down to negligible levels. Don't drag Pakistan into all this because you're upset your plane was shot down.....

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## Oublious

ptldM3 said:


> Plenty of countries are buying Russian gas, in fact *China signed a contract with Russia worth 400 billion dollars* over 30 years. Turkey and Russia did 30 billion dollars in trade last year not to mention millions of Russians vacation in Turkey bringing in large revenue for Turkey. You can kiss most of that goodbye, your economy will shrink considerably..


 

You are talking about last year, Give that 10 years and you have 300 billions. You are the big loser and you have bad economy at the moment. 




.


> Yea right? The Chinese which are buying the S-400 must be doing so without having access to this data right? And the manufacture must be lying right?



Did you saw the test, it is more propaganda. Because china is buying doesn't mean that is good like the specifications.





> Russia has multiple types of air defenses around Latakia. Those drones will be shot down either from air, land or sea, and no Turkish "artillery" can reach Latakia.



Those drone are made for destroying sams.

Harpy Air Defense Suppression System


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## ACE OF THE AIR

TurAr said:


> Wait a minute. Wasn't Turkey the aggressor here? I mean, Russians seem to be pretty sure about that, which means the article 5 cannot be invoked by Turkey in case of a Russian retaliation which then means Turkey is all alone. Yet we can't see the mighty Russian bear. Where is it? Seems it is busy whining and barking when it got the spare time from humiliating itself further by bombing aid convoys in Syria.
> 
> Refresh my memory about the Greece downing Turkish jet will you? As for the Syria, it is still paying for that mistake. More than a dozen Syrian aircraft has been downed by Turkey including 3 jets and 1 helicopter since that day. The funny thing is, one of that jets happen to belong Russia



One must no jump the gun...If I remember correctly NATO TREATY has a specific article regarding conflict between member states where other NATO member would not take side so that the Treaty is not compromised. This the reason during the war between Turkey and Greece NATO did not enter.

Again now when the issue is between an ex-super power and Turkey NATO is trying to calm its member states in not jumping the gun because this might lead to WW III which they are no prepared at present due to various reasons. 

In the past few days there have been for and against arguments on who is correct and who is not, but one must realise what an all out conflict could attain. There were options for both Turkey as well as Russia for not provoking the other but what happened has happened now How to solve this should be the priority. 

Turkey was shot at from the Syrian side in the past, Turkey also lost F4 Phantom. Syrian aircraft were also shot down. Turkey did not enter the war for one reason it was not being backed by the NATO Members because they did not have the necessary backing from UN or their own Parliaments. 

Turkey became desperate after the bombings that happened in Ankara but this was also not enough to get NATO interested. Has any one thought why?. But today when France was attacked NATO is getting involved where as Turkey has to stay behind because of the shooting down or Russian aircraft.

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## ptldM3

TurAr said:


> Wait a minute. Wasn't Turkey the aggressor here? I mean, Russians seem to be pretty sure about that, which means the article 5 cannot be invoked by Turkey in case of a Russian retaliation which then means Turkey is all alone. Yet we can't see the mighty Russian bear. Where is it? Seems it is busy whining and barking when it got the spare time from humiliating itself further by bombing aid convoys in Syria.




NATO will always side with Turkey no matter how aggressive Turkey is. I personally would have shot down a Turkish aircraft in retaliation but that is me. Russia does not want or need a full blown war.

As for your chest thumping Turkey has threatened Russia not to bomb Turkmen and Russia in turn bombs "aid" trucks coming from Turkey and Turkey doesn't lift a finger. Its easy to shoot down a bomber that cant defend itself but when SU-30s and S-400s are deployed the Turks tone down the rhetoric and do nothing when Russia hits Turkish "aid" trucks. Russia is patiently waiting and baiting Turkey in order to shoot down Turkish aircraft.







TurAr said:


> *Refresh my memory about the Greece downing Turkish jet will you?* As for the Syria, it is still paying for that mistake. More than a dozen Syrian aircraft has been downed by Turkey including 3 jets and 1 helicopter since that day. The funny thing is, one of that jets happen to belong Russia





Okay borat.



Deadly 1996 Aegean clash is confirmed - F-16.net


*A former Turkish naval commander confirmed on Monday that a Greek warplane had shot down a Turkish F-16 fighter in the Aegean in 1996. The incident, which cost the life of one of the two Turkish pilots, Captain Nail Erdogan, was attributed to an accident at a time of heightened tension.*


----------



## Malik Alashter

zenmastera said:


> starting a proxy war against us.


Well that what you did against Iraqis and Syrian so now you need to drink from the same medicine that you fed the others.



zenmastera said:


> They completely shocked.


The only one I see really shocked is you the funny is that one of you want to show putin a turkish war game as that would scare him!!!! is that really how you think? no wonder turkey is declining, alas now the easiest way to fix it is that erdogan make apology to the Russians next step give apology to the Iraqis and Syrian and pull your hand from those countries cooperate with them to defeat extremism and let us good neighbors back as before and let's make business for the good of our people.

Turkey can be a vital country to the middle east in the middle east if the the turkish people change this islamist sick erdogan this guy will bring turkey down if he stays longer.


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## fox 2

ptldM3 said:


> NATO will always side with Turkey no matter how aggressive Turkey is. I personally would have shot down a Turkish aircraft in retaliation but that is me. Russia does not want or need a full blown war.
> 
> As for your chest thumping Turkey has threatened Russia not to bomb Turkmen and Russia in turn bombs "aid" trucks coming from Turkey and Turkey doesn't lift a finger. Its easy to shoot down a bomber that cant defend itself but when SU-30s and S-400s are deployed the Turks tone down the rhetoric and do nothing when Russia hits Turkish "aid" trucks. Russia is patiently waiting and baiting Turkey in order to shoot down Turkish aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay borat.
> 
> 
> 
> Deadly 1996 Aegean clash is confirmed - F-16.net
> 
> 
> *A former Turkish naval commander confirmed on Monday that a Greek warplane had shot down a Turkish F-16 fighter in the Aegean in 1996. The incident, which cost the life of one of the two Turkish pilots, Captain Nail Erdogan, was attributed to an accident at a time of heightened tension.*



We also shot greek plane after that and violated greek space with 86 fighter but no plane came to welcome us.
Greeks can't did anything and NATO fix the case after that.
I am %10000000 of sure of this story.


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## ptldM3

Oublious said:


> You are talking about last year, Give that 10 years and you have 300 billions. You are the big loser and you have bad economy at the moment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Did you saw the test, it is more propaganda. Because china is buying doesn't mean that is good like the specifications.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Those drone are made for destroying sams.
> 
> Harpy Air Defense Suppression System




I rarely argue with kids, go back to the sand box. You have no argument, you are claiming the S-400 is propaganda and that Russia can not prove it can perform what it is advertised to perform. Do you realize how dumb you sound? And that Harpy RC toy will get blown out of the sky long before it can ever reach any concentration of even decent SAMs let alone of the the best if the the world.

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## farag

While Turks are typing comments here, their turkman brethren are getting slaughtered.
I don't even mention the economic sanctions, just a few days back they were happy that ISIS bombed the russian plane in egypt and brought them extra tourists, remeber?

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## fox 2

Malik Alashter said:


> Well that what you did against Iraqis and Syrian so now you need to drink from the same medicine that you fed the others.
> 
> The only one I see really shocked is you the funny is that one of you want to show putin a turkish war game as that would scare him!!!! is that really how you think? no wonder turkey is declining, alas now the easiest way to fix it is that erdogan make apology to the Russians next step give apology to the Iraqis and Syrian and pull your hand from those countries cooperate with them to defeat extremism and let us good neighbors back as before and let's make business for the good of our people.
> 
> Turkey can be a vital country to the middle east in the middle east if the the turkish people change this islamist sick erdogan this guy will bring turkey down if he stays longer.


You are making nonsense talk. This is our region. Even if whole word will nuke us we will be rule again. No matter what our actions. Russia tried Turkey and got response. Thats it.

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## farag

zenmastera said:


> 1.How can Erdoğan protect Turkmens ? To invade Syria ? I know what you think, it's not about Russia. We didn't enter Syria to protect Turkmens before. We just supporting them to stay overthere..
> 2. Even when we bombing the ISIL positions (with 100 km guided bombs) with USA coalition we didnt enter Syria airspace because of our problems.
> So we are not entering the Syria air space already. We just entering Iraq airspace 25-30 km to bomb PKK.
> So S-400 can't touch our planes in our airspace or Iraq . If it touched, that system will be destroyed immediately before we heard the news don't worry. We speaking the system even in our artillery range




You enter iraq airspace quite often. Next time you may lose a fighter.

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## fox 2

farag said:


> While Turks are typing comments here, their turkman brethren are getting slaughtered.
> I don't even mention the economic sanctions, just a few days back they were happy that ISIS bombed the russian plane in egypt and brought them extra tourists, remeber?


Turkmens getting slaughtered over 4 years. It's not about Russia. If we want to make big think we can invade Syria in 4 years. 
We are paying 25 billion to Russia. Russia paying 5 billion include tourist. Yeah tottaly fuckin 5 billion ??



farag said:


> You enter iraq airspace quite often. Next time you may lose a fighter.


Can you explain why ?


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## tugberksamur

ptldM3 said:


> There is no artillery that is in range of the S-400, so it you that is braindead. And good luck trying to attack the base in Latakia. Russia has cruise missiles it can launch from Russia and hit targets anywhere in Turkey. Turkey has no defense other then hiding behind NATO. Even leaving nukes aside Turkey is nowhere close militarily to Russia.
> 
> Russian air defenses can shoot down virtually any aircraft in Turkish airspace. Yet Turkey can not touch a single Russian aircraft within Russian airspace. Russia can hit any target in Turkey with cruise missile launched from air land or sea almost anywhere in the world.
> 
> 
> 
> The turks do a lot of chest thumping by when Syria and Greece shot down Turkish aircraft to moods were different.



T-300E Kasırga: 
Range: 65-100 km

TOROS 230:
Range:25-100 km

TOROS 260
Range:25-160 km

J600T Yıldırım:
Range:
Yıldırım I : 150 km
Yıldırım II : 300 km
Yıldırım III : 900 km

MGM-140:
Range: 300 km

Does it enough to disappear your S-400s from world without any air vehicles?


----------



## farag

zenmastera said:


> You are making nonsense talk. This is our region. Even if whole word will nuke us we will be rule again. No matter what our actions. Russia try Turkey and got response. Thats it.



This is your region now, true
But a combined russia and US force will eventually replace it with kurds.
Like you took over the greek land

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## Oublious

farag said:


> You enter iraq airspace quite often. Next time you may lose a fighter.



Ther is no Iraq dumb and dumber, northside is for Kurds, south side is for little iran and middle is for KSA.


----------



## farag

zenmastera said:


> Turkmens getting slaughtered over 4 years. It's not about Russia. If we want to make big think we can invade Syria in 4 years.
> We are paying 25 billion to Russia. Russia paying 5 billion include tourist. Yeah tottaly fuckin 5 billion ??
> 
> 
> Can you explain why ?



Turkman death just escalated. In the last three days.

And expect to lose a fighter in iraqi airspace, consider it violation of international rules, you don't have permission to be there. It just needs a bit of cooperation between Russia and one iraqi group

Last but not the least, Turkey is a pawn member in NATO.
They recruit you to Korea but don't expect western blood to be spilled for you

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## waz

F117 said:


> Nobody cares what a pakistani has to say.



But you still bothered to reply to him. The irony here is simply mind-boggling.


----------



## fox 2

farag said:


> This is your region now, true
> But a combined russia and US force will eventually replace it with kurds.
> Like you took over the greek land


LOL. You are unsuccessful troll.


----------



## TurAr

ptldM3 said:


> As for your chest thumping Turkey has threatened Russia not to bomb Turkmen and Russia in turn bombs "aid" trucks coming from Turkey and Turkey doesn't lift a finger. Its easy to shoot down a bomber that cant defend itself but when SU-30s and S-400s are deployed the Turks tone down the rhetoric and do nothing when Russia hits Turkish "aid" trucks. Russia is patiently waiting and baiting Turkey in order to shoot down Turkish aircraft.



As it was made very clear at the highest level by the Turkish President today: if a Russian aircraft does the same thing again in the future, the result would be the same. But I disagree with him. The result would be slightly different. The pilots would again slowly descent to their deaths if they survive the initial blow, sure. But this time, Russia would also lose its missile batteries along with its ship if they dare challenging the Turkish jets protecting the sovereignty of the motherland.
Then Putin must do a lot more than bombing aid trucks and keeping tomatoes out of their diet to appease young Ivans such as yourself.

Russia played with fire and got burned. Simple as that. Just suck it up bro. It will be easier, you'll see.

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## fox 2

farag said:


> Turkman death just escalated. In the last three days.
> 
> And expect to lose a fighter in iraqi airspace, consider it violation of international rules, you don't have permission to be there. It just needs a bit of cooperation between Russia and one iraqi group
> 
> Last but not the least, Turkey is a pawn member in NATO.
> They recruit you to Korea but don't expect western blood to be spilled for you


Why your a$$ burnin ?


----------



## Malik Alashter

farag said:


> You enter iraq airspace quite often. Next time you may lose a fighter.


Unfortunately bro with this kind of government in Iraq we wont be able to hit the erdogan forces soon other wise we have the money the men to do so but our scum still busy with stealing the nation wealth as hard as they could.

But this situation will be changed next time of election the iraqis will dumb them to the trash can.


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## farag

tugberksamur said:


> T-300E Kasırga:
> Range: 65-100 km
> 
> TOROS 230:
> Range:25-100 km
> 
> TOROS 260
> Range:25-160 km
> 
> J600T Yıldırım:
> Range:
> Yıldırım I : 150 km
> Yıldırım II : 300 km
> Yıldırım III : 900 km
> 
> MGM-140:
> Range: 300 km
> 
> Does it enough to disappear your S-400s from world without any air vehicles?




Can you show me a picture of your imaginary yildrim III?
What happened to the Anka?


----------



## Malik Alashter

zenmastera said:


> This is our region. Even if whole word will nuke us we will be rule again.


First of all save your butt of being smacked frequently then think how to prosper after you prosper like france for example then think about how can you keep your country together.

Rule who, you little mouse while all those around you are cats ready to eat you.


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## proka89



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## Malik Alashter

Oublious said:


> Ther is no Iraq dumb and dumber, northside is for Kurds, south side is for little iran and middle is for KSA.


You still in the state hope the whole of the country is under the iraqi forces from the south to the north we just keep the kurds manage their territory because we promise them that before so when the time comes we will take it back and that's a promise.

Saudis has no rule in the center of the country you dump the center n the hands of our kids stepping on the head of the takfirees at there who dared to step in.

now the south is the kingdom of Imam alsistani who rule all the shiite from there and that's including Iran.

If this Imam say two words there will be no isis nothing believe or not we fight isis slowly just to keep the civilians save. you as barbarian you can't believe that there is a muslim nation care about civilians and sacrifice it's soldiers for them!!! see that's the difference between us you target civilians we save them.

I was secular but now I'm adhered to my Islam since it is the real human rights supporter not fake one.


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## xenon54 out

proka89 said:


>


There comes the first conspiracy theory in, get your popcorns.
Ok we admit we forced the Russian plane into Turkish territory.

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## anatolia

farag said:


> This is your region now, true
> But a combined russia and US force will eventually replace it with kurds.
> Like you took over the greek land


are you still barking here ? go do whatever you can.

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## tugberksamur

farag said:


> Can you show me a picture of your imaginary yildrim III?
> What happened to the Anka?


There is no picture of Yıldırım III because they keep it secret.We just know Yıldırım III is in inventory and Yıldırım IV (1500 km) was tested succesfully last year.About Anka, It's completed(Anka-A) but army wanted B model and armed model (Anka-S). Therefore they are testing it with Cirit missile first one will be ready in 2017 they say.

Edit: Typing mistake 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669961061433413632

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/669973528242864128

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## Oublious

Malik Alashter said:


> You still in the state hope the whole of the country is under the iraqi forces from the south to the north we just keep the kurds manage their territory because we promise them that before so when the time comes we will take it back and that's a promise.
> 
> Saudis has no rule in the center of the country you dump the center n the hands of our kids stepping on the head of the takfirees at there who dared to step in.
> 
> now the south is the kingdom of Imam alsistani who rule all the shiite from there and that's including Iran.
> 
> If this Imam say two words there will be no isis nothing believe or not we fight isis slowly just to keep the civilians save. you as barbarian you can't believe that there is a muslim nation care about civilians and sacrifice it's soldiers for them!!! see that's the difference between us you target civilians we save them.
> 
> I was secular but now I'm adhered to my Islam since it is the real human rights supporter not fake one.




Ahahaha, pleas shut the fuk up. When i wrote that iraqi goverment was a secterian, you are the one who was deny it. And now your are the biggest secterian of PDF. I have archived your post ahahaha...

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## BLACKEAGLE

farag said:


> Can you show me a picture of your imaginary yildrim III?
> What happened to the Anka?


They keep being one of the G20, their military is one of the top 10 and most importantly they have home-make most of their military hardware. So, Farag, what are you good at? Saying "ya beh" day and night to strangers to please them so you can get some money to send home to keep economy rolling? Look at the mirror honey, and make sure you clean it first.

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## Irfan Baloch

HAKIKAT said:


> I respect your principled stand, although I disagree with some of your points. Hopefully, an end-game has started. Absence of a strong and just government has resulted in all these chaos and anarchy, which I believe will end with a better future for all of us.
> 
> As for the picture of a soldier with humungous moustache, is he from Baluch regiment? I used to know a Bangladeshi neighbor's father who was a Pakistan Army officer from Baluch regiment and fought in 1965 war against India. I heard some amazing stories regarding how they defended Lahore with a very few soldiers against over-whelming Indian attacks.


yes the picture is of the guards of Baluch regiment. 
I pray the end game doesnt hurt Turkey 
I pray that those responsible for destroying Syria, Iraq and Libya and conspiring against Turkey meet their fate and pay for their deeds in our lifetime



T-123456 said:


> You are right about that but,there is a big but,
> These Turkmens are not professional soldiers,they were normal citizens forced to go to war by circumstances.
> And dont forget the bombing of a Turkmen village a couple days(or a week ago) ago.
> How would they know the code of conduct in such a situation,you know,i know,how many us know or would act accordingly,even those of us on active duty,in such a situation?
> Lets be realistic.
> Btw,what victory?
> It was just a warning.


god bless turkey and save it from harm and I pray it doesn't face the fate we Pakistani faced.

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## Malik Alashter

Oublious said:


> Ahahaha, pleas shut the fuk up. When i wrote that iraqi goverment was a secterian, you are the one who was deny it. And now your are the biggest secterian of PDF. I have archived your post ahahaha...


Where is my sectarian part of my comment.

Plus watch your mouth don't let the sh!t come out of it it suppose to come from your but not the other way.


----------



## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Irfan Baloch said:


> yes the picture is of the guards of Baluch regiment.
> I pray the end game doesnt hurt Turkey
> I pray that those responsible for destroying Syria, Iraq and Libya and conspiring against Turkey meet their fate and pay for their deeds in our lifetime
> 
> 
> god bless turkey and save it from harm and I pray it doesn't face the fate we Pakistani faced.


Amin..


----------



## Blue Marlin

Irfan Baloch said:


> god bless turkey and save it from harm and I pray it doesn't face the fate we Pakistani faced.


i agree with what you say but when turkey is taking part in malicious actvities then dont you think that there are taking steps to being an unstable country. also if you look deeper in to the problem, which is, IS now dont you hink that if turkey stoped buying oil from IS dont you think that this will contribute toward choking them? also its worth pointing out here the revinue is worth about $50 million per day and then sold on to europe. this is indeed a "stab in the back" as far as im concernd the turkish government is no differant to IS.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/56d7e97e-35de-11e5-b05b-b01debd57852.html


----------



## Ceylal

* Erdogan'son in the company with two Daesh chieftains*






A small photograph that speaks volumes about the policy pursued by Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

showing the son of Turkish President, Bilal, in good company with two Daesh chieftains oil exporters.

*Russia locks the Syrian air space.





 https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1681514285424654




*

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## NL_Turk

Ceylal said:


> * Erdogan'son in the company with two Daesh chieftains*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small photograph that speaks volumes about the policy pursued by Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
> 
> showing the son of Turkish President, Bilal, in good company with two Daesh chieftains oil exporters.
> 
> *Russia locks the Syrian air space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1681514285424654
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



They are kebab shop owners. lol

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## KTOOOOM

Malik Alashter said:


> You still in the state hope the whole of the country is under the iraqi forces from the south to the north we just keep the kurds manage their territory because we promise them that before so when the time comes we will take it back and that's a promise.
> 
> Saudis has no rule in the center of the country you dump the center n the hands of our kids stepping on the head of the takfirees at there who dared to step in.
> 
> now the south is the kingdom of Imam alsistani who rule all the shiite from there and that's including Iran.
> 
> If this Imam say two words there will be no isis nothing believe or not we fight isis slowly just to keep the civilians save. you as barbarian you can't believe that there is a muslim nation care about civilians and sacrifice it's soldiers for them!!! see that's the difference between us you target civilians we save them.
> 
> I was secular but now I'm adhered to my Islam since it is the real human rights supporter not fake one.


dude stop you are the joke of century your army of 50 000 ran away from 5000 and 90% of your country fell to daiesh so you brought the irani to fight for you and they got owned real hard until your baba USA came to save your butt.
you cant change history boy. a coward is still a coward we still remember when you throw out your military clothes and burned your ids in the early 2000 and we know which part of you country who kept fighting till the end.

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## fox 2

Ceylal said:


> * Erdogan'son in the company with two Daesh chieftains*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small photograph that speaks volumes about the policy pursued by Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
> 
> showing the son of Turkish President, Bilal, in good company with two Daesh chieftains oil exporters.
> 
> *Russia locks the Syrian air space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1681514285424654
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *


 
They not ISIS. They got pic with lot of famous guy .

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## IronEagle

@Ceylal
*
Erdogan'son in the company with two Daesh chieftains*






A small photograph that speaks volumes about the policy pursued by Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

showing the son of Turkish President, Bilal, in good company with two Daesh chieftains oil exporters.

*-----------------------*

LMAO those guys are just kebab shop owner from very popular restaurant in Istanbul they were interviewed today i saw on news basically they were shocked and invited those who labelled them as deas to come their restaurant and have a nice kebab instead


It's unbelievable how many false news come out everyday and how easy people fall for these fake news without questioning it


----------



## matmat26

ISIS, sell Iraqi oil on Bashar al-Assad. Kirsan Ilyumzhinov through those who are Russian citizens and Nicos Nicolaou. These are Russian citizens. Assad does not sell oil to any Muslim country. All Muslim countries want to go Assad .. ISIS, not war with Assad's army. ISIS-Assad and the Syrian democratic movement by attacking the power .. if Assad Oil money is giving Iran and Russia. This money then goes to ISIS's pocket. ISIS founder is former Iraqi Baath regime. Saddam's former soldiers directing. Assad is the Baath regime. Assad and ISIS same. ISIS France was to attack the causes of Belarus to Syria. Because he wants to save. Because ISIS is not hitting the Russian Democratic Forces in Syria. Russia bombed areas where none ISIS. There Democratic Forces. ISIS has bombardment to come to Russia Mediterranean. The target was FRANCE. Because the domain would have to be large. To be heard by everyone. To view supported by the West. See a map of where the bombs by Russia.


See the description of the US Treasury Department. Embargo and person names. .

Treasury Sanctions Networks Providing Support to the Government of Syria, Including For Facilitating Syrian Government Oil Purchases from ISIL


Putin is trying to deceive anyone.

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## IronEagle

@farag 

Are you Egyptian?


----------



## American Pakistani

I pray that no harm happens to Turkeye. Pakistan stand with Turk brothers in this time.

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## KingWest

Blue Marlin said:


> i agree with what you say but when turkey is taking part in malicious actvities then dont you think that there are taking steps to being an unstable country. also if you look deeper in to the problem, which is, IS now dont you hink that if turkey stoped buying oil from IS dont you think that this will contribute toward choking them? also its worth pointing out here the revinue is worth about $50 million per day and then sold on to europe. this is indeed a "stab in the back" as far as im concernd the turkish government is no differant to IS.
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/56d7e97e-35de-11e5-b05b-b01debd57852.html


If IS gets most of their revenue by selling oil, than why dont Russia/US/FRANCE bomb those oil raffinaderies?


----------



## Ceylal

NL_Turk said:


> They are kebab shop owners. lol


of course they are...selling kebabs


----------



## lionheartsalahudin

well turkish brothers the american nukes in storgae with u ,u don't have the codes for ,but hey let me say on behalf of pakistan any time u need nukes u would probably get them at a small price from pakistan heck we might even thow in a few shaheen missiles ,we can have a understanding just like with the saudis on nukes u invest in our nuclear programme and when the time comes we slip u what u need win win hey! 
russian s-400 and moskova s-300 is more of a intimidation nothing more russians will not mess with turkey unless tuaf shows up on top of latakia airfeild then they will be asking for it,only people that will suffer in the bears retaliation will probably be the turkmens in syria ,but i think that was a excuse to begin with from turks to score points with local tukey turks so turkey won't care look pakistani pakhtoons don't care who bombs pakhtoons in afghanistan for their bad deeds .

anyhow russia needed an excuse to get some anti air missiles in their and turkey provided that excuse ,now russians will have more bargaining power in the end when every one of the player sits arnd the table to negotiate russia might get a lease on the tartus naval base and russia would probably exile asad back to russia and every one gets a win yay!

Source: Russia deploys advanced S-400 air-defence missile system in Syria | Page 3


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## SiCiSi

waz said:


> Pakistan is doing very well at the moment dear chap. Attacks have been bought down to negligible levels. Don't drag Pakistan into all this because you're upset your plane was shot down.....



I dont have time for dragging anyone into anything. Im telling you the truth and if you dont like it. Too bad.

Attacks in your country have been brought down because your PM is a billionaire and with residences and businesses in the middle east. He stopped construction of the Iran-pak pipeline as ordered by the arabs.

Mark my words if you want, the attacks in pakistan will resume as soon as you have a leader who decides to go ahead with that pipeline. Arabs want pakistanis weak and dependent on gulf oil. They will do everything in their power to make sure that state of dependence remains. You cannot do anything about it even if you wanted.

As for pakistan doing well, you still cant provide electricity to your people despite the largest oil producer in the world being your primary 'muslim brother' and still need foreign aid to eat. 

Doing very well indeed.



Irfan Baloch said:


> I pray the end game doesnt hurt Turkey



Unfortunately, god cant save turkey now. 

The thing about us is we never get angry. We have been playing this game with the Americans for decades and we know how to keep cool under pressure rather than start shaking uncontrollably and get over-excited like arabs/turks. Most importantly, we enjoy being under pressure while they fear it.

Due to our lack of anger and immediate action, the turks are thinking we just saw our fighter go down and accepted it. Or maybe forgot about it.

But Russians never forget and sure as hell never forgive. We plan for revenge 10-20 even 50 years from now. And that revenge absolutely ruins our enemy from within and makes them wish they got a short and sweet end instead.

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## Siavash

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Aren't you afraid of that Turkey? Don't you remember what did it do to you?
> 
> Battle of Chaldiran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It was so humiliating, more humiliating than the way a turkey eats a poor worm.
> 
> 
> Why you guys always feel to be compelled to suck up to somebody? If you don't want to support your Arab brothers, then it's fine but don't suck up to their enemies and call yourself an Arab nationalist. It's disgusting and pathetic.


So you are accepting both Turkey's have resemblences! Do you realize how pathetic is your reply?


----------



## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Kyle Sun said:


> It does not matter how long this time is.
> 
> Will you allow me to stay in your bedroom for 17s without your permission ?





SiCiSi said:


> I dont have time for dragging anyone into anything. Im telling you the truth and if you dont like it. Too bad.
> 
> Attacks in your country have been brought down because your PM is a billionaire and with residences and businesses in the middle east. He stopped construction of the Iran-pak pipeline as ordered by the arabs.
> 
> Mark my words if you want, the attacks in pakistan will resume as soon as you have a leader who decides to go ahead with that pipeline. Arabs want pakistanis weak and dependent on gulf oil. They will do everything in their power to make sure that state of dependence remains. You cannot do anything about it even if you wanted.
> 
> As for pakistan doing well, you still cant provide electricity to your people despite the largest oil producer in the world being your primary 'muslim brother' and still need foreign aid to eat.
> 
> Doing very well indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately, god cant save turkey now.
> 
> The thing about us is we never get angry. We have been playing this game with the Americans for decades and we know how to keep cool under pressure rather than start shaking uncontrollably and get over-excited like arabs/turks. Most importantly, we enjoy being under pressure while they fear it.
> 
> Due to our lack of anger and immediate action, the turks are thinking we just saw our fighter go down and accepted it. Or maybe forgot about it.
> 
> But Russians never forget and sure as hell never forgive. We plan for revenge 10-20 even 50 years from now. And that revenge absolutely ruins our enemy from within and makes them wish they got a short and sweet end instead.




Russia and Putin's anger is understandable , and you said about our leadership is 100%

Turkey was trying to protect its airspace however a normal warning is enough , not necessarily shoot down the plane

While Pakistan- Turkey relations are brotherly , I also feel pain for the loss that Russia suffered due to accident in air

It was political move as immediately after Ukraine also announced they will shoot down any airplane from Russia

I was quite saddened by the loss of pilot life in the incident , it would have been better if Turkey and Russia had cooperated closely


----------



## Jason Zhao

isoo said:


> Who says russia is untouchable are they God?
> Doesnt matter we know or not, the King of the world even didnt condescend to identify themselves so its a hit, proofs are everywhere .


You must understand what we really need nowardays, the way? every country is touchable, USA, RUSSIA, UK, CHINA, INDIA, all you can touch, but this is really what you want? All are in peach, harding for econormy, why not calm down to talk please? Russia killed your friends, you can tell UN, UN come out to solve it, why UN is being, it is not a toy. 

Calm down, sit together, have a nice communication, all of you are strong country, fighting is not good to the world...

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## Siavash

Kamil_baku said:


> You farsi members here are nothing more than air baloon.. shame on you guys that you use the word promise for any shit.. Learn something from Turks. we promised and we downed the plane...keep barking kids, we are busy with actions..


I also promised to butcher one after warning him in Farsi and I will do that! We are both good at our promises but one is not savage and one is proud to be one!


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

So what is Iran's stance on the Russian - Turk , power struggle in region.


----------



## Azeri440

Ceylal said:


> * Erdogan'son in the company with two Daesh chieftains*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A small photograph that speaks volumes about the policy pursued by Recep Tayyip Erdogan.
> 
> showing the son of Turkish President, Bilal, in good company with two Daesh chieftains oil exporters.
> 
> *Russia locks the Syrian air space.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1681514285424654
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *



it certainly speaks volume regarding your stupidity 
they own a pretty famous restaurant in Turkey , and here is even a thread on reddit about it 

RT uses Bilal Erdogan's photo with a kebab restaurant's bearded owner as "a proof of Turkey's support to ISIS" (x-post from /r/Turkey) : europe

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## cnleio



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## T-123456

@Irfan Baloch ,i know you have a different view on this case but what a normaly anti-Turkiye English news paper wrote about it is quite interesting.

*The Russians had it coming to them*
* Now the Turks have shot down a Russian warplane, Mr Putin might finally understand that if you play with fire, you end up getting burned *

Until Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet over its border with Syria on Tuesday, Vladimir Putin seemed to have convinced himself that Nato countries were just not serious about confronting Russia’s increasingly belligerent military conduct.

The Russian president recently made this view known when close aides warned him of Britain’s views on Russia. They told him that, when Britain outlined its National Security Strategy as part of the 2015 defence review, it would argue that, after Islamic State (Isil), Russia posed the greatest threat to global peace. But rather than being alarmed that his country was being cast in the same mould as the barbaric followers of Isil, Mr Putin simply shrugged. “Don’t worry,” he reassured his aides. “The British aren’t serious.”

And, given the impotent response by Britain and its Nato allies to Moscow’s various acts of aggression over the past decade, who could blame the Russian leader for his nonchalance? Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine, the Baltics, Syria: the roll call of Mr Putin’s unwelcome meddling in the affairs of other nations does not make happy reading for Western leaders. And yet, until yesterday, Nato had done precious little to persuade Mr Putin to rethink his cavalier attitude towards other nations’ borders.

Nato turned a blind eye when, in retaliation for Georgia’s attempts to join the Nato alliance in 2008, Moscow helped itself to the former Georgian territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Last year’s illegal annexation of Crimea is now a _fait accompli_ so far as Russia is concerned, while Nato’s response to the Kremlin’s continued sabre-rattling in eastern Ukraine and the Baltics has been to conduct a few war games and bolster its air patrols.

So when Mr Putin embarked on his Syrian adventure earlier in the autumn, he had little reason to heed Nato’s blunt warnings of the serious consequences Russia might face if its warplanes continued to violate the airspace of Turkey, one of the alliance’s more volatile members.

Mr Putin’s belief that he could conduct Russia’s dealings in Syria with arrogant disregard for other regional concerns resulted in yesterday’s disaster. But as the world knows only too well from bitter experience, fundamental misunderstandings of this kind are how world wars get started.

Mr Putin continues to insist that Russia’s military intervention in support of the Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad is aimed at destroying Isil, even though his critics claim the reality is that the Russians are concentrating their firepower on bombing Syrian opposition groups, many of which have Turkish backing. The Turks, who harbour their own desire to remove Assad, have been angered by Russia’s intervention, particularly as it has led to Russian warplanes violating Turkish air space when they bomb rebel positions in northern Syria.

Last month these careless Russian antics prompted the US and its Nato allies to issue a blunt warning that the alliance would respond militarily if Moscow continued with what Nato leaders called “unacceptable violations of Turkish air space". This time around, Mr Putin should have taken Nato’s warnings at face value, particularly as the Turks were itching to teach the Russians a lesson. He didn’t, and now he must deal with the consequences of a Turkish F-16 shooting down a Russian Sukhoi SU-24 while on a bombing raid against Turkmen positions close to the Turkish border. If Mr Putin wants to play with fire, then he needs to learn he will end up getting burned.

The challenge now, for Nato as well as for Russia, is to prevent tensions between Moscow and Ankara from spiralling out of control. Turkey’s relations with Russia are already strained following Moscow’s Syrian intervention, with the Turkish president Tayyip Erdogan warning that Turkey could cut its lucrative energy ties with Russia. The Turks would certainly resist any attempt by Russia to launch retaliatory action against the Turkmen, who yesterday claimed they had shot dead the two Russian pilots as they attempted to parachute to safety, although this was later denied by Turkish officials.

Turkey funds a number of Turkmen militias in northern Syria that are fighting to overthrow the Assad regime. It is unlikely the Turks would tolerate Russian attacks on their ethnic allies, which could easily lead to direct military confrontation between Russia and Turkey, with all the implications that would have for the Nato alliance, which would then be obliged to defend Turkey’s borders.

Mr Putin has badly misread Turkey’s determination to defend its interests and, by so doing, has further complicated the tangled web of alliances that underpin the Syrian conflict. He has also made life more difficult for David Cameron, who will tomorrow tell the Commons about his own plans for Britain to participate in the air war against Isil. Like Mr Putin, Mr Cameron says he wants to launch air strikes against Isil in Syria. But, after yesterday, Mr Cameron can be in no doubt that, however he views Mr Putin’s role in the conflict, it will most certainly not be that of an ally.
The Russians had it coming to them - Telegraph

For me,it looks like this was planned by NATO to send a message to Putin.

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## Beidou2020

TurAr said:


> lol
> 
> Watching these braindead Ivans desperately trying to save face is priceless... I like how they think they can cripple Turkish Airforce by placing some missiles within the range of Turkish artillery and by sending a ship onto our lap...
> 
> As always, Russia played with fire but this time it got burned. Hopefully, next time it won't confuse Turkey with Ukraine or Georgia for its own sake. Because Turkey wouldn't mind humiliating it once again.



The only humiliation that's occurred is time after time Russia giving military defeat after military defeat to the Turks century after century.

S-400 can wipe out your ENTIRE Air Force. A bunch of old and outdated F-16 stand no chance against Su-27 and Mig-29 let alone Su-30 and Su-35. Russian cruise missiles will destroy all your SAMs and command and control centres.

You didn't like Russia bombing your grey wolves on the Turkish border and you did a sneak against Russian bombers and ran away to NATO.

Russia in response bombed the living crap out of the grey wolves and Turkey hasn't done jack since to stop Russia.

You can't even protect your own people from getting bombed to shreds by the Russian Air Force because you no longer can't do a sneak attack and you don't have enough courage to go head to head against Russia.

Watch and witness your Turkmen grey wolves get wiped out by the Russian Air Force.

You took one Russian life, Russia just took thousands of Turk lives in return. How's that working out for ya?

Don't mess with Russia!



T-123456 said:


> @Irfan Baloch ,i know you have a different view on this case but what a normaly anti-Turkiye English news paper wrote about it is quite interesting.
> 
> *The Russians had it coming to them*
> * Now the Turks have shot down a Russian warplane, Mr Putin might finally understand that if you play with fire, you end up getting burned *
> 
> Until Turkey shot down a Russian fighter jet over its border with Syria on Tuesday, Vladimir Putin seemed to have convinced himself that Nato countries were just not serious about confronting Russia’s increasingly belligerent military conduct.
> 
> The Russian president recently made this view known when close aides warned him of Britain’s views on Russia. They told him that, when Britain outlined its National Security Strategy as part of the 2015 defence review, it would argue that, after Islamic State (Isil), Russia posed the greatest threat to global peace. But rather than being alarmed that his country was being cast in the same mould as the barbaric followers of Isil, Mr Putin simply shrugged. “Don’t worry,” he reassured his aides. “The British aren’t serious.”
> 
> And, given the impotent response by Britain and its Nato allies to Moscow’s various acts of aggression over the past decade, who could blame the Russian leader for his nonchalance? Georgia, Crimea, eastern Ukraine, the Baltics, Syria: the roll call of Mr Putin’s unwelcome meddling in the affairs of other nations does not make happy reading for Western leaders. And yet, until yesterday, Nato had done precious little to persuade Mr Putin to rethink his cavalier attitude towards other nations’ borders.
> 
> Nato turned a blind eye when, in retaliation for Georgia’s attempts to join the Nato alliance in 2008, Moscow helped itself to the former Georgian territories of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Last year’s illegal annexation of Crimea is now a _fait accompli_ so far as Russia is concerned, while Nato’s response to the Kremlin’s continued sabre-rattling in eastern Ukraine and the Baltics has been to conduct a few war games and bolster its air patrols.
> 
> So when Mr Putin embarked on his Syrian adventure earlier in the autumn, he had little reason to heed Nato’s blunt warnings of the serious consequences Russia might face if its warplanes continued to violate the airspace of Turkey, one of the alliance’s more volatile members.
> 
> Mr Putin’s belief that he could conduct Russia’s dealings in Syria with arrogant disregard for other regional concerns resulted in yesterday’s disaster. But as the world knows only too well from bitter experience, fundamental misunderstandings of this kind are how world wars get started.
> 
> Mr Putin continues to insist that Russia’s military intervention in support of the Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad is aimed at destroying Isil, even though his critics claim the reality is that the Russians are concentrating their firepower on bombing Syrian opposition groups, many of which have Turkish backing. The Turks, who harbour their own desire to remove Assad, have been angered by Russia’s intervention, particularly as it has led to Russian warplanes violating Turkish air space when they bomb rebel positions in northern Syria.
> 
> Last month these careless Russian antics prompted the US and its Nato allies to issue a blunt warning that the alliance would respond militarily if Moscow continued with what Nato leaders called “unacceptable violations of Turkish air space". This time around, Mr Putin should have taken Nato’s warnings at face value, particularly as the Turks were itching to teach the Russians a lesson. He didn’t, and now he must deal with the consequences of a Turkish F-16 shooting down a Russian Sukhoi SU-24 while on a bombing raid against Turkmen positions close to the Turkish border. If Mr Putin wants to play with fire, then he needs to learn he will end up getting burned.
> 
> The challenge now, for Nato as well as for Russia, is to prevent tensions between Moscow and Ankara from spiralling out of control. Turkey’s relations with Russia are already strained following Moscow’s Syrian intervention, with the Turkish president Tayyip Erdogan warning that Turkey could cut its lucrative energy ties with Russia. The Turks would certainly resist any attempt by Russia to launch retaliatory action against the Turkmen, who yesterday claimed they had shot dead the two Russian pilots as they attempted to parachute to safety, although this was later denied by Turkish officials.
> 
> Turkey funds a number of Turkmen militias in northern Syria that are fighting to overthrow the Assad regime. It is unlikely the Turks would tolerate Russian attacks on their ethnic allies, which could easily lead to direct military confrontation between Russia and Turkey, with all the implications that would have for the Nato alliance, which would then be obliged to defend Turkey’s borders.
> 
> Mr Putin has badly misread Turkey’s determination to defend its interests and, by so doing, has further complicated the tangled web of alliances that underpin the Syrian conflict. He has also made life more difficult for David Cameron, who will tomorrow tell the Commons about his own plans for Britain to participate in the air war against Isil. Like Mr Putin, Mr Cameron says he wants to launch air strikes against Isil in Syria. But, after yesterday, Mr Cameron can be in no doubt that, however he views Mr Putin’s role in the conflict, it will most certainly not be that of an ally.
> The Russians had it coming to them - Telegraph
> 
> For me,it looks like this was planned by NATO to send a message to Putin.



Only one getting burnt are Turkish and Western ambitions to topple Assad.

Russia now deployed the world best SAM S-400 to Syria which now pretty much cover all of Syria and Russia has wiped out the Turkmen grey wolves. Turkey's ambitions of topping Assad has been eliminated.

Assad will stay in power and Russia will make sure of it. As a bonus, Russia gets to increase its military influence in Syria and the Middle East.

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## Malik Alashter

KTOOOOM said:


> dude stop you are the joke of century your army of 50 000 ran away from 5000 and 90% of your country fell to daiesh so you brought the irani to fight for you and they got owned real hard until your baba USA came to save your butt.
> you cant change history boy. a coward is still a coward we still remember when you throw out your military clothes and burned your ids in the early 2000 and we know which part of you country who kept fighting till the end.


Look who talk?.

Arn't you guys running your butt every day from the hخuthiss who have nothing more than ak and some old konkurs you with all your fancy air force all you could do killing kids and women attacking hospitals and market while give your fat a$$ to the wind hopefully it help you with a push.

If there is a joke is you and your allies with all the budget all you got is your butt been smashed.


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## ptldM3

The Turks hear are hilarious. Acting big and tough then running to NATO for "consultation" after the downing of the bomber ,then claiming they did not know the aircraft was Russian (idiots). Turkey has cried about violations by Russian aircraft but Turkey itself is one of the worst violators of air incursions and they payed for it before by having the Greeks and Syrians shoot down Turkish aircraft. @T-123456 the Turks had it coming as well from the Syrians and Greeks and soon when the Turks screw up again like they did with the Greeks and Syrian they will be downed.

The Turks have threatened Russia to not bomb "turkmen" yet the day after the shoot down Russia not only bombed Turkmen but Turkish "aid" trucks on the border as well as the FSA. Turkey did nothing. Russia is trying to bait Turkish aircraft into a confrontation so they can shoot down Turkish fighters without much political blowback. When SU-30s lock onto Turkish F-16s for 5 minutes it just shows that those crusty F-16 can be downed anytime. @Beidou2020 the Turks are now barking while Russia is calmly calling their bluff and baiting them in.

Militarily Russia can wipe the floor with Turkey if they so chose to but the consequences would be the start of ww3. The Turks don't understand that Russia can hit any part of Turkey with cruise missiles and ICBMs launched from Russian territory or from naval vessels or submarines, while at the same time being able to shoot down virtually almost any Turkish aircraft in or outside of Turkey due to the air defense network that now covers much of Turkey.

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## Beidou2020

ptldM3 said:


> The Turks hear are hilarious. Acting big and tough then running to NATO for "consultation" after the downing the bomber ,then claiming they did not know the aircraft was Russian (idiots). Turkey has cried about violations by Russian aircraft but Turkey itself is one of the worst violators of air incursions and they payed for it before by having the Greeks and Syrians shoot down Turkish aircraft. @T-123456 the Turks had it coming as well from the Syrians and Greeks and soon when the Turks screw up again like they did with the Greeks and Syrian they will be downed.
> 
> The Turks have threatened Russia to not bomb "turkmen" yet the day after the shoot down Russia not only bombed Turkmen but Turkish "aid" trucks on the border as well as the FSA. Turkey did nothing. Russia is trying to bait Turkish aircraft into a confrontation so they can shoot down Turkish fighters without much political blowback. When SU-30s lock onto Turkish F-16s for 5 minutes it just shows that those crusty F-16 can be downed anytime. @Beidou2020 the Turks are now barking while Russia is calmly calling their bluff and baiting them it.
> 
> Militarily Russia can wipe the floor with Turkey if they so chose to but the consequences would be the start of ww3. The Turks don't understand that Russia can hit any part of Turkey with cruise and ICBMs launched from Russian territory or from naval vessels or submarines, while at the same time being able to shoot down virtually almost any Turkish aircraft in or outside of Turkey due to the air defense network that now covers much of Turkey.



What the Turks did is cowardly. Sneak attacked a Russian bomber taking out Turkmen terrorists and quickly ran away to hide behind NATO's skirt. They haven't done anything since to protect their Turkmen people.

Russia sent the Moskva cruiser and S-400 and said any attack on Russian military will face a retaliation.

Turkey thought by downing a Russian bomber that Russia would be scared to bomb the Turkmen in the future.

To bait the Turks even more, Russia absolutely pummelled the Turkmen and destroyed all the aid trucks that carry weapons from Turkey to Suria and Turkey couldn't do a damn thing to stop it.

Russia fully exposed Turkish cowardice. Now Russia has increased its military presence in Syria and made sure pro-Russian Assad will stay in power.

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## Kyle Sun

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Russia and Putin's anger is understandable , and you said about our leadership is 100%
> 
> Turkey was trying to protect its airspace however a normal warning is enough , not necessarily shoot down the plane
> 
> While Pakistan- Turkey relations are brotherly , I also feel pain for the loss that Russia suffered due to accident in air
> 
> It was political move as immediately after Ukraine also announced they will shoot down any airplane from Russia
> 
> I was quite saddened by the loss of pilot life in the incident , it would have been better if Turkey and Russia had cooperated closely


What i mean is RU should not provoke turkey by violating airspace.

It does not make sense . completely meaningless and reckless move .

it did not make any benefit but an perfect excuse for turkey to shoot you when you were bombing oil tankers of turkey.

What RU needs to do is keep bombing ISIS and those oil smugglers

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## ptldM3

Beidou2020 said:


> What the Turks did is cowardly. Sneak attacked a Russian bomber taking out Turkmen terrorists and quickly ran away to hide behind NATO's skirt. They haven't done anything since to protect their Turkmen people.
> 
> Russia sent the Moskva cruiser and S-400 and said any attack on Russian military will face a retaliation.
> 
> Turkey thought by downing a Russian bomber that Russia would be scared to bomb the Turkmen in the future.
> 
> To bait the Turks even more, Russia absolutely pummelled the Turkmen and destroyed all the aid trucks that carry weapons from Turkey to Suria and Turkey couldn't do a damn thing to stop it.
> 
> Russia fully exposed Turkish cowardice. Now Russia has increased its military presence in Syria and made sure pro-Russian Assad will stay in power.





Iraqi is now accusing the Turks of violating their airspace (check my thread on that). The Turks took it from the Greeks and the Syrians after after they violated their airspace. Hopefully the Iraqi air force starts shooting down the Turkish intruders along with Russia once Turkey violates Syrian airspace.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

I am just wondering since , Pakistan's passenger jets sometimes go thru turkey does that mean any danger to Pakistan Airline planes flying around turkey I am just saying

The anti air missiles are quite unforgiving to any plane passenger or military

Hope this does not escalates to a next level

But Turkey is right to protect its airspace and so is Russia to clear out any / all rebels


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## TurAr

SiCiSi said:


> Unfortunately, god cant save turkey now.
> 
> *The thing about us is we never get angry.* We have been playing this game with the Americans for decades and we know how to keep cool under pressure rather than start shaking uncontrollably and get over-excited like arabs/turks. Most importantly, we enjoy being under pressure while they fear it.
> 
> Due to our lack of anger and immediate action, the turks are thinking we just saw our fighter go down and accepted it. Or maybe forgot about it.
> 
> But Russians never forget and sure as hell never forgive. We plan for revenge 10-20 even 50 years from now. And that revenge absolutely ruins our enemy from within and makes them wish they got a short and sweet end instead.




lol

Are you for real? The highest Russian officials have made the most retarded accusations possible against Turkey out of pure rage. Russia did the most pathetic thing like hitting aid trucks which is now apparently being denied by Russian military officials. A rage which is the result of Russia's incompetence in finding a suitable answer against Turkey to ease the butt pain of young Ivans such as yourself. Which resulted in knee-jerk emotional, thus, dumb declarations by the Russian leadership despite Turkey's cold headed efforts to de-escalate.

As if it isn't the Russian President and PM who were acting like over-emotional teenage girls who were recently dumped by their BFs. "Due to our lack of anger" he says 

Bratan, it is Turkey you are talking about. Not Ukraine or Georgia. It already cost you a jet and a helicopter along with their pilots. I mean, I'm not saying you shouldn't take revenge, but you gotta do a lot more than not having our tomatoes into your pale vitaminless bodies or hitting aid trucks and then denying it  Pathetic.

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## LeGenD

farhan_9909 said:


> Nuclear umbrella doesn't matter.They will back off as was the case with Ukraine.
> 
> Time to develop independent nuclear program.
> 
> I can't believe that a regional power like Turkey don't have nukes


Turkey is a member of NATO and its situation is different from that of Ukraine.



Vyom said:


> Oh yes. if SU-24 was = SU 30 then there was no need to make Su 30 in the first place, isn't it ?
> 
> and Su30 is an sir superiority fighter not a bomber like Su 24. SU 24s are not supposed to operate in Contested air space SU 30 are supposed to fight in a Contested airspace very different aircraft. It was dumb of Russia to not to have any Air Superiority Aircraft in the area.
> 
> about reading Wikipedia, read roles of aircraft too..


In a modern battle, situation awareness makes considerably difference. Under the right circumstances, any Jet Fighter can be defeated.

NATO members have excellent surveillance apparatus at their disposal.



wanglaokan said:


> Turkey is far from called strong, you don't have nuke, you don't even have a proper Sam system.


Turkey maintains a stockpile of nuclear weapons. Furthermore, Turkey can request deployment of long-range SAM systems from other NATO partners if the situation demands it.

These are the perks of being a NATO member. Don't be naive.



BLACKEAGLE said:


> Syrian regime strongly condemns Turkish violation of it's country's _*sovereignty*_...






EnggineerShahjehan said:


> Pakistan is not a super military power but still it can be useful to break countries just like in old days in case of USSR.


We didn't break USSR.



Rafay Jamil said:


> Turkey of today reminds me of Pakistan of 80's:
> -Conflicts in neighbouring countries-Check
> -Directly or in directly supporting insurgents in that country-Check
> -Russian intervention-Check
> -Downing of Russian jets-Check
> -Being frontline state in a US led coalition-Check
> -Islamic radicalisation creeping into society-Check
> -Millions of refugees flooding in-Check
> 
> Expecting a different fate then that of Pakistan will be like living in fools paradise.


The dynamics of relationship between Turkey and US are different from the relationship between Pakistan and US.

Turkey had no choice but to get involved in the Syrian mess due to massive refugee crises.



Ind4Ever said:


> Of course it's a very big deal. Big enough for full blown strikes from Russia. Why they won't retaliate?
> 
> If Russia don't retaliate now against Turkey it will
> 
> 1)be a huge blow to putin political carrier
> 2)This will weaken Russian stands at global stage for sure.
> 3)Insecurity with in Russian allies too.
> 
> So make no mistake. Save your bragging for time being. We will know the result practically..


You think that Russians do not think about the consequences of their actions? Contrary to the popular belief, they are not irrational either.

Incidents can fuel anger but at the end of the day, a leader should think rationally.

Whatever Russia may plan to do, it will be a calculative move. However, expecting Russia to (directly) exchange blows with Turkey on a single incident is bit too much. Russians should understand that they cannot have their way in the entire world.

If Turkey have drawn a red line, Russia should respect it. No need to escalate the issue.



azzo said:


> It's normal for Muslims to own Russians, Afghans turned the USSR into the timid-no longer believes in communism- poor man's version of U.S.
> Let this be a warning to you Russia, or we will turn your country to the Chechnyan Islamic Republic.


Don't be naive.

Russians overwhelmed Chechyna and annexed it not long ago. Now, before you tout that Chechnya was nothing, read about the *first* Russo-Chechen conflict.

Afghanistan was transformed in to an allied front against communist forces with billions of dollars of aid (funding, weapons and training) provided to so-called Mujahideen factions. This war was no longer fair afterwards because Mujahideen factions would seek refuge in Pakistani territory to recover and replenish their ranks. It was like an endless wave of resistance. On top of this, Red Army was lacking in quality and cost of military operations was increasing in each passing year. USSR was not economically doing well during this era and decided to call it off.



KTOOOOM said:


> lol afghans without a country with only ak and man pads ended your empire and drove it to a sewer and still could not recover from it till this day.


Hint: Boris Yeltsin

Contrary to the popular belief, Afghan war had no effect on the integrity of USSR.



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Im a staunch and firm supporter and backer of Turkish great nation and their Armed Forces. But on this i must take a moral position. Russia is fighting ISIS - if NATO is serious about fighting ISIS (it isnt, it's supporting ISIS) then they would let the Russians do their job. Syrian govt. authorized them to be in Syrian airspace.
> 
> Proper protocol is to make radio contact and/or intercept the SU-24s and escort them out if they intrude Turkish air space despite warnings to desist. Shooting down the aircraft was a huge escalation and not necessary (my opinion). The poor pilot of that aircraft was hit by small arms fire by FSA/ISIS terrorists supported by Obama govt Qatar etc and others (France even). IS this right? Do these terrorists care a damn about Geneva Conventions? Russia has my support when it comes to anti ISIS operations and saving Syria from destruction. Russia and Turkiye need to quickly sit down and un-do the flames before they become on a direct confrontation course which would only help to serve ISIS (Daish). **** that. Dont lose focus from the mission!
> 
> Obama and USA - stop supporting ISIS!


US and Turkey are not supporting ISIS; they support FSA and Turkmen.

Turkmen is the second largest ethnic group in Syria.







Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait support ISIS in clandestine manner and US and Turkey are silent about it. Its a fair game as long as ISIS is challenging Syrian regime.

Why destroy enemy of an enemy? This is the logic at works.

In all honesty, its a big mess.



SiCiSi said:


> Unfortunately we see Pakistan as an Arab slave state. They have no power to think for themselves.
> 
> If they did, they would have the Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline open by now to get cheap gas from Iran and reduce dependency on the gulf.
> 
> So unless you guys can stand up on your own feet and think for yourself, we have no respect for you.


Pakistan, under the right leadership (i.e. COAS Raheel Sharif), refused to support Arabs in the conflict in Yemen and wants to improve relationship with Russia. Pakistan should not have enmity with Russia.

I believe that Pakistan have learned a valuable lesson from its past experiences; Pakistan should look after its own interests.

Unfortunately, Pakistani politicians are not so mature yet. Politicians such as Imran Khan are rare and they do not get enough support.



Malik Abdullah said:


> We are not slaves of anyone. Mind your language Cyka. Turks are our brothers and will continue to be until the end of the world. Iran and Russia can only our economic friends and nothing more thn that. Majority of Pakistanis support Syrian rebels because Assad is a mad dog and shud be put down but Russia just for the sake of diverting international attention from Ukraine, is supporting an oppressor. You will see more bloodshed this is just the beginning.


I am sorry but Pakistan have nothing to do with this matter. Pakistan should look after its own interests.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

LeGenD said:


> Turkey is a member of NATO and its situation is different from that of Ukraine.
> 
> 
> In a modern battle, situation awareness makes considerably difference. Under the right circumstances, any Jet Fighter can be defeated.
> 
> NATO members have excellent surveillance apparatus at their disposal.
> 
> 
> Turkey maintains a stockpile of nuclear weapons. Furthermore, Turkey can request deployment of long-range SAM systems from other NATO partners if the situation demands it.
> 
> These are the perks of being a NATO member. Don't be naive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We didn't break USSR.
> 
> 
> The dynamics of relationship between Turkey and US are different from the relationship between Pakistan and US.
> 
> Turkey had no choice but to get involved in the Syrian mess due to massive refugee crises.
> 
> 
> You think that Russians do not think about the consequences of their actions? Contrary to the popular belief, they are not irrational either.
> 
> Incidents can fuel anger but at the end of the day, a leader should think rationally.
> 
> Whatever Russia may plan to do, it will be a calculative move. However, expecting Russia to (directly) exchange blows with Turkey on a single incident is bit too much. Russians should understand that they cannot have their way in the entire world.
> 
> If Turkey have drawn a red line, Russia should respect it. No need to escalate the issue.
> 
> 
> Don't be naive.
> 
> Russians overwhelmed Chechyna and annexed it not long ago. Now, before you tout that Chechnya was nothing, read about the *first* Russo-Chechen conflict.
> 
> Afghanistan was transformed in to an allied front against communist forces with billions of dollars of aid (funding, weapons and training) provided to so-called Mujahideen factions. This war was no longer fair afterwards because Mujahideen factions would seek refuge in Pakistani territory to recover and replenish their ranks. It was like an endless wave of resistance. On top of this, Red Army was lacking in quality and cost of military operations was increasing in each passing year. USSR was not economically doing well during this era and decided to call it off.
> 
> 
> Hint: Boris Yeltsin
> 
> Contrary to the popular belief, Afghan war had no effect on the integrity of USSR.
> 
> 
> US and Turkey are not supporting ISIS; they support FSA and Turkmen.
> 
> Turkmen is the second largest ethnic group in Syria.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Kuwait support ISIS in clandestine manner and US and Turkey are silent about it. Its a fair game as long as ISIS is challenging Syrian regime.
> 
> Why destroy enemy of an enemy? This is the logic at works.
> 
> In all honesty, its a big mess.
> 
> 
> Pakistan, under the right leadership (i.e. COAS Raheel Sharif), refused to support Arabs in the conflict in Yemen and wants to improve relationship with Russia. Pakistan should not have enmity with Russia.
> 
> I believe that Pakistan have learned a valuable lesson from its past experiences; Pakistan should look after its own interests.
> 
> Unfortunately, Pakistani politicians are not so mature yet. Politicians such as Imran Khan are rare and they do not get enough support.
> 
> 
> I am sorry but Pakistan have nothing to do with this matter. Pakistan should look after its own interests.



I never suggested Turkiye is supporting ISIS and I'm aware about Turkmen community of Syria (yes Turkiye is actively backing them)..

the real reason for this conflict is about Assad and pipeline politics and weakening Iran/Hezbollah. That's all this is about. 

from the Turkish perspective ISIS is a threat - but they perceive PKK to be an even bigger threat which in the historical context is understandable.


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## batmannow

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I never suggested Turkiye is supporting ISIS and I'm aware about Turkmen community of Syria (yes Turkiye is actively backing them)..
> 
> the real reason for this conflict is about Assad and pipeline politics and weakening Iran/Hezbollah. That's all this is about.
> 
> from the Turkish perspective ISIS is a threat - but they perceive PKK to be an even bigger threat which in the historical context is understandable.


For Turkey ISIS is their pet terrorists , ISIS can't go nose to nose with turkey , cause it the only source which is buying their illegal oil shipments ?
Thats why , from Iraq to sirya ISIS has the policy to rattle PKK or any kind of Kurdish rebellion ?
Thousands of Kurdish peoples heads been chopped off , by ISIS since they took the power ?
Turkey has no idea , how fast this world has changed after Paris attacks , even though being a vocal partner in crimes with USA & its NATO & non NATO allies like Israel & ksa , turkey still think that west is still interested in getting rid of Assad govt in sirya , while west already established that getting rid of Asad govt means handing over more land & power to ISIS , that's why they have dumped , this whole conspirated mission , cause lot of their super EU allies are not with them on sirya , they are with Russia this time ?
Many of them are more interested to flat the siryan lands with airel bombing & that's it .

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## Gibbs

Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet - BBC News

Looks like the rhetoric from Erdogan and his goons is softening after a good telling off from his NATO masters.. Thats the reality

Chest thumping is good for the ignorant masses but it's never too late to realize the epic shit he got himself and the country in to..

" However, he told France 24 television: "If we had known it was a Russian plane, maybe we would have warned it differently"

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## Beidou2020

Gibbs said:


> Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet - BBC News
> 
> Looks like the rhetoric from Erdogan and his goons is softening after a good telling off from his NATO masters.. Thats the reality
> 
> Chest thumping is good for the ignorant masses but it's never too late to realize the epic shit he got himself and the country in to..
> 
> " However, he told France 24 television: "If we had known it was a Russian plane, maybe we would have warned it differently"



Too late.

Russia won't give a damn and will continue to bomb the crap out of Turkmen and 'aid' trucks.

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## pher

Gibbs said:


> Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet - BBC News
> 
> Looks like the rhetoric from Erdogan and his goons is softening after a good telling off from his NATO masters.. Thats the reality
> 
> Chest thumping is good for the ignorant masses but it's never too late to realize the epic shit he got himself and the country in to..
> 
> " However, he told France 24 television: "If we had known it was a Russian plane, maybe we would have warned it differently"


This is a total shamless lie from turkey. despicable!!!

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## Gibbs

Beidou2020 said:


> Too late.
> 
> Russia won't give a damn and will continue to bomb the crap out of Turkmen and 'aid' trucks.



No they wont.. Russians will make them pay today or sometime in the future.. My point was to show the futile chest thumping here by some Turkish posters, Way over playing their importance and capabilities.. Shooting down a bomber with combat air craft and killing in cold blood an identified combatant in a non conflict situation is not something to crow about, How to defuse the situation after mind boggling stupidity would be

Without retorting to simply disgusting posting pics of desecrating dead service men, Silly chest beating, Accusing neutrals of being anti Turkish, They need to understand the utter stupid action taken by their leadership for very brittle reasons of territorial integrity.. Stupid actions that the general public of Turkey will have to pay for with disastrous consequences



pher said:


> This is a total shamless lie from turkey. despicable!!!



Futile attempt at damage control.. It's too late

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## TurAr

Gibbs said:


> Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet - BBC News
> 
> Looks like the rhetoric from Erdogan and his goons is softening after a good telling off from his NATO masters.. Thats the reality
> 
> Chest thumping is good for the ignorant masses but it's never too late to realize the epic shit he got himself and the country in to..
> 
> " However, he told France 24 television: "If we had known it was a Russian plane, maybe we would have warned it differently"



Turkey's rhetoric has always been the same since the very beginning of the incident. Cold headed and calm. While Russians are still in rage to say the least. Though it's normal. They played with fire, and they got shit on all over their 50 years of arrogance.

We have informed the world through UN and our alies through NATO as we should have. We also have informed Russian officials about the whys and hows of the incident as well. As a result we enjoy the world's support while Putin is too busy with trying to save face by making retarded declarations about Turkey and escalating the situation despite pretty much every country that matters in the World accepted Turkey's version as the truth.

Btw, I doubt Erdogan said that since yesterday he said: the result would be the same if a Russian jet to violate Turkish airspace once again.

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## russiarussia

Russia will give the answer inside Syria to the Turkish government.

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## pher

Gibbs said:


> No they wont.. Russians will make them pay today or sometime in the future.. My point was to show the futile chest thumping here by some Turkish posters, Way over playing their importance and capabilities
> 
> Without retorting to simply disgusting posting pics of desecrating dead service men, Silly chest beating, Accusing neutrals of being anti Turkish, They need to understand the utter stupid action taken by their leadership for very brittle reasons of territorial integrity.. Stupid actions that the general public of Turkey will have to pay for with disastrous consequences
> 
> 
> 
> Futile attempt at damage control.. It's too late


turks brag without limits on this forum as if they were world no1 power.

In reality, just 15 minutes after russian jet down, they rushed to cry before Nato for help, then immediately paying visits to P5. what a coward!!! besides, this kind of damage is already beyond their ability to control, they must pay heavy price.

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## Gibbs

TurAr said:


> Turkey's rhetoric has always been the same since the very beginning of the incident. Cold headed and calm. While Russians are still in rage to say the least. Though it's normal. They played with fire, and they got shit on all over their 50 years of arrogance.
> 
> We have informed the world through UN and our alies through NATO as we should have. We also have informed Russian officials about the whys and hows of the incident as well. As a result we enjoy the world's support while Putin is too busy with trying to save face by making retarded declarations about Turkey and escalating the situation despite pretty much every country that matters in the World accepted Turkey's version as the truth.
> 
> Btw, I doubt Erdogan said that since yesterday he said: the result would be the same if a Russian jet to violate Turkish airspace once again.



It's from the BBC and quoted off the French Television.. You can stay in denial

Like i said all the chest beating in the press and in online forums will die down when the euphoria ends and the reality sets in.. Looks like atleast for the Turkish authorities including Erdogan it has started to seep through, Just 48 hours after.. Over jingoistic Turkish posters on online forums will take while longer

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## ptldM3

TurAr said:


> lol
> 
> Are you for real? The highest *Russian officials have made the most retarded accusations possible against Turkey out of pure rage. *






Russian intelligence which is arguably one of the best in the world has accused Turkey of supporting ISIS. Brush it off all you want but then retired *NATO Supreme Allied Commander general Wesley Clark accused Turkey of supporting ISIS*.* Iraq accused* Turkey of supporting ISIS, *Egypt has accused* Turkey of supporting ISIS, *Iran has accused Turkey* of supporting ISIS.* Syria has accused* Turkey of supporting ISIS. *Kurdish commanders have accused Turkey* of supporting ISIS.



You have high level Russians, American, Egyptians, Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian, government officials saying the same thing. Must be a giant conspiracy. Everyone is lying, the thousands of violent Jihadist terrorists must have magically teleported into Syria. The hundreds of fuel trucks (525+ destroyed by Russia) (100+ destroyed by the US and allies) must have been transporting and selling oil to the martians. 






TurAr said:


> Russia did the most pathetic thing like hitting aid trucks which is now apparently being denied by Russian military officials.







Yes, yes...."aid trucks" we all know what "aid" it was and for who. Borat is pissed.







TurAr said:


> *A rage which is the result of Russia's incompetence in finding a suitable answer against Turkey* to ease the butt pain of young Ivans such as yourself. Which resulted in knee-jerk emotional, thus, dumb declarations by the Russian leadership despite *Turkey's cold headed efforts to de-escalate.*







If anyone is incompetent it is Turkey, Turkey was lucky Russia did not start bombarding them. Turkey decides to shoot down a aircraft in which they claim that they did not know the nationality of (idiots). Instead of making visual contact and escorting the aircraft (which is standard procedure) they decide to shoot it down even though it was supposedly in Turkish airspace of mere seconds and posed no threat. 

In the mean time* Iraq has accused of Turkish aircraft of again violating its airspace*, along with Greece, Cyprus , Syria, ect. Turkey feels that they can violate anyone's airspace with impunity but then start pouting when their airspace is violated. It's just a matter of time before the Turkey violates Syrian airspace and when they do Russia will down Turkish jets. Iraqi needs to also send Turkey a message by shooting Turkish intruders down. By then Turkey will have set a world record for so many countries shoot down Turkish aircraft for border violations.








TurAr said:


> Bratan, it is Turkey you are talking about. Not Ukraine or Georgia. It already cost you a jet and a helicopter along with their pilots. I mean, I'm not saying you shouldn't take revenge, *but you gotta do a lot more than not having our tomatoes into your pale vitaminless bodies or hitting aid trucks and then denying it*  Pathetic.







Russia is bombarding the hell out of "turkmen", FSA dirtbags and Turkish trucks right on Turkey's border and Turkey is doing nothing after it warned and threatened Russia to not bomb turkmen. What is Turkey going to do about it? Now with SU-30s escorting bombers and S-400s able to shoot down Turkish aircraft deep inside its territory, the Turks are sitting back and spreading their butt cheeks like they have been doing for decades. I think Turkey needs to run back to NATO for "consultation" and then keep repeating they did not know who they shot down.


The cherry on the cake is that Turkey is going to lose billions and have their economy shrink do to sanctions. Russia will continue destroying the FSA and bombing turkmen, and building up the airbase in Latakia which recently had S-400 delivered which covers much of Turkish airspace.

Due to Turkey's irrational and hot headed move they:

Lost a partner.
Got sanctions imposed.
Forced Russia to move air defense systems right on the Turkish border.
And intensified Russia's resolve to take out the FSA.

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## Immanuel

ahaha Turkey is turning out to be the Pakistan of that area, pretty much everybody hates them 

Some of posts from the Turk members are just too hilarious. Pussies ran to NATO quicker that a rabbit gets fucked. Already the 1st battery of the S-400 is deployed, heard a whole regiment will be online by mid next week.

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## ptldM3

Gibbs said:


> No they wont.. Russians will make them pay today or sometime in the future.. My point was to show the futile chest thumping here by some Turkish posters, Way over playing their importance and capabilities..* Shooting down a bomber with combat air craft and killing in cold blood an identified combatant in a non conflict situation is not something to crow about*, How to defuse the situation after mind boggling stupidity would be
> 
> Without retorting to simply disgusting posting pics of desecrating dead service men, Silly chest beating, Accusing neutrals of being anti Turkish, They need to understand the utter stupid action taken by their leadership for very brittle reasons of territorial integrity.. Stupid actions that the general public of Turkey will have to pay for with disastrous consequences
> 
> 
> 
> Futile attempt at damage control.. It's too late





These are the same people that booed the victims of the Paris attacks and shouted Allah Akbar, what were you expecting? What is disturbing is that shooting downed airmen in a parachute is a war crime by the Geneva Convention and the world is quiet. Even more disturbing is that the body was desecrated by being stripped and by the looks of the pilots face which was cut, swollen and bloody i would say its possible they beat him to death or desecrated him further.

I recall someone said that a US official praised the terrorists for "defending their country" ironic that now war crimes are praised and foreign jihadist now call Syria their country.

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## pher

Immanuel said:


> ahaha Turkey is turning out to be the Pakistan of that area, pretty much everybody hates them
> 
> Some of posts from the Turk members are just too hilarious. Pussies ran to NATO quicker that a rabbit gets fucked. Already the 1st battery of the S-400 is deployed, heard a whole regiment will be online by mid next week.


quite right, this thread has become a platform for the world to condemn turkey for its barbaric action.

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## TurAr

ptldM3 said:


> Russian intelligence which is arguably one of the best in the world has accused Turkey of supporting ISIS. Brush it off all you want but then retired *NATO Supreme Allied Commander general Wesley Clark accused Turkey of supporting ISIS*.* Iraq accused* Turkey of supporting ISIS, *Egypt has accused* Turkey of supporting ISIS, *Iran has accused Turkey* of supporting ISIS.* Syria has accused* Turkey of supporting ISIS. *Kurdish commanders have accused Turkey* of supporting ISIS.
> 
> 
> 
> You have high level Russians, American, Egyptians, Iraqi, Iranian, Syrian, government officials saying the same thing. Must be a giant conspiracy. Everyone is lying, the thousands of violent Jihadist terrorists must have magically teleported into Syria. The hundreds of fuel trucks (525+ destroyed by Russia) (100+ destroyed by the US and allies) must have been transporting and selling oil to the martians.



If Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Syria and Russia said that and the Kurdish "commanders" approved, then it must be true huh?  What a joke.

The whole fucking World said what Turkey did was within its rights and you deny it. But you come to me with what the dictators of some shitholes said about Turkey...



ptldM3 said:


> If anyone is incompetent it is Turkey, Turkey was lucky Russia did not start bombarding them. Turkey decides to shoot down a aircraft in which they claim that they did not know the nationality of (idiots). Instead of making visual contact and escorting the aircraft (which is standard procedure) they decide to shoot it down even though it was supposedly in Turkish airspace of mere seconds and posed no threat.
> 
> In the mean time* Iraq has accused of Turkish aircraft of again violating its airspace*, along with Greece, Cyprus , Syria, ect. Turkey feels that they can violate anyone's airspace with impunity but then start pouting when their airspace is violated. It's just a matter of time before the Turkey violates Syrian airspace and when they do Russia will down Turkish jets. Iraqi needs to also send Turkey a message by shooting Turkish intruders down. By then Turkey will have set a world record for so many countries shoot down Turkish aircraft for border violations.



Nobody but the handicapped bear would dare bombing Turkish allies right next to Turkish border by ignoring all the previous warnings of Turkey, and Turkey's rules of engagement along the border with Syria. So I'm sure we knew to whom that jet belonged to. Saying "unknown nationality" is just a political move to basically say "it isn't personal". But I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand. That's why you are cheering for Putin's retarded actions while I'm confident about my country's smart diplomacy.



ptldM3 said:


> Russia is bombarding the hell out of "turkmen", FSA dirtbags and Turkish trucks right on Turkey's border and Turkey is doing nothing after it warned and threatened Russia to not bomb turkmen. What is Turkey going to do about it? Now with SU-30s escorting bombers and S-400s able to shoot down Turkish aircraft deep inside its territory, the Turks are sitting back and spreading their butt cheeks like they have been doing for decades. I think Turkey needs to run back to NATO for "consultation" and then keep repeating they did not know who they shot down.
> 
> 
> The cherry on the cake is that Turkey is going to lose billions and have their economy shrink do to sanctions. Russia will continue destroying the FSA and bombing turkmen, and building up the airbase in Latakia which recently had S-400 delivered which covers much of Turkish airspace.
> 
> Due to Turkey's irrational and hot headed move they:
> 
> Lost a partner.
> Got sanctions imposed.
> Forced Russia to move air defense systems right on the Turkish border.
> And intensified Russia's resolve to take out the FSA.



Turkmens along with the other rebels under the name of FSA are being bombed almost daily for the past couple of years. Nothing new here. Turkey is welcoming those who had enough.

As I said before, if a Russian jet to violate Turkish airspace once again you would not only end up with a downed jet but also with destroyed SAMs and possibly with a sunken ship. 

Do you really think Russia is in a position to impose sanctions on a country like Turkey while Russian economy itself suffering and crumbling under the sanctions?

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## GURU DUTT

TurAr said:


> If Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Syria and Russia said that and the Kurdish "commanders" approved, then it must be true huh?  What a joke.
> 
> The whole fucking World said what Turkey did was within its rights and you deny it. But you come to me with what the dictators of some shitholes said about Turkey...
> 
> 
> 
> Nobody but the handicapped bear would dare bombing Turkish allies right next to Turkish border by ignoring all the previous warnings of Turkey, and Turkey's rules of engagement along the border with Syria. So I'm sure we knew to whom that jet belonged to. Saying "unknown nationality" is just a political move to basically say "it isn't personal". But I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand. That's why you are cheering for Putin's retarded actions while I'm confident about my country's smart diplomacy.
> 
> 
> 
> Turkmens along with the other rebels under the name of FSA are being bombed almost daily for the past couple of years. Nothing new here. Turkey is welcoming those who had enough.
> 
> As I said before, if a Russian jet to violate Turkish airspace once again you would not only end up with a downed jet but also with destroyed SAMs and possibly with a sunken ship.
> 
> Do you really think Russia is in a position to impose sanctions on a country like Turkey while Russian economy itself suffering and crumbling under the sanctions?


what you said you might thing its right but the hard fact is its the russia turkey took for granted they are not french , germans or americans or british who think twice for human rights or fare play when they go in no one comes in between and those who come for time bieng just might win a battle here or there but russians are much more resilient to small losses but there problem is they never forgive and turkey made a huge mistake to shoot down russian jet to save FSA fighters and there illeagel oil convoys now get ready for what happned to germans once and afghans later who still are paying for the war that ened almost 3 decades back


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## 500

2008. Russia supported Ossetian separatists shoot down Russian Su-25 and murder the pilot. Russia still fully supports them.

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## TurAr

GURU DUTT said:


> what you said you might thing its right but the hard fact is its the russia turkey took for granted they are not french , germans or americans or british who think twice for human rights or fare play when they go in no one comes in between and those who come for time bieng just might win a battle here or there but russians are much more resilient to small losses but there problem is they never forgive and turkey made a huge mistake to shoot down russian jet to save FSA fighters and there illeagel oil convoys now get ready for what happned to germans once and afghans later who still are paying for the war that ened almost 3 decades back



Are you really holding Turkey in the same basket with Georgia and Ukraine? Do you even have the slightest idea what an offense on a country like Turkey would cost for Russia? The 'losses' wouldn't be small I assure you. Putin knows it, that's why we haven't seen anything and we won't as long as Turkey continues to play it smart.

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## GURU DUTT

TurAr said:


> Are you really holding Turkey in the same basket with Georgia and Ukraine? Do you even have the slightest idea what an offense on a country like Turkey would cost for Russia? The 'losses' wouldn't be small I assure you. Putin knows it, that's why we haven't seen anything and we won't as long as Turkey continues to play it smart.


well you still think you can take on france , israel , iraq ,iran, syria and russia & USA at the same time ?

do you think british or the NATO will help turkey in event of a war with russia ?

do you think kurds & yezdies will forget what turkish help to FSA, ISIS & ISIL brought them ? 

do you think russia will just make empty boasting and go away after firing a few shots in the air to scare your airforce in helping FSA/ISIS & ISIL ?

do you really think russia will go for a full blown offensive ?

well if you think that all above mentioned then all i can say is good luck turkey

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## United



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## ptldM3

TurAr said:


> If Iraq, Egypt, Iran, Syria and Russia said that and the Kurdish "commanders" approved, then it must be true huh?  What a joke.
> 
> The whole fucking World said what Turkey did was within its rights and you deny it. But you come to me with what the dictators of some shitholes said about Turkey...







This is the typical way a Turk argues. Just deny facts. General Westly Clark former NATO allied command leader stated Turkey supports ISIS. Russia made the same statement, so did, Iraq, Egypt, Syria, ect. I know this is hard to swallow.


As for the "whole world" saying what Turkey did was right, prove that. I did not know the US and possibly a few NATO doormats constitutes as the "whole fucking world". There are countries that have condemned Turkey and many are neutral. Reading English boards or comments in English articles 99% of people condemn Turkey as reckless, accuse Turkey of violating airspace of its neighbors regularly (that is true), and call Turkey a terrorist supporter. Most people around the world are disgusted by Turkey.






TurAr said:


> Nobody but the handicapped bear would dare bombing Turkish allies right next to Turkish border by ignoring all the previous warnings of Turkey, and Turkey's rules of engagement along the border with Syria. So I'm sure we knew to whom that jet belonged to. Saying "unknown nationality" is just a political move to basically say "it isn't personal". But I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand. That's why you are cheering for Putin's retarded actions while I'm confident about my country's smart diplomacy.







Turkey claimed the aircraft was of unknown nationality because it shit itself, just like it shit itself when it ran for "consultation" and just like it shit itself after Russia bombarded Turkish fighters on the border after all those threats Turkey issued. Russia is itching for the moment Turkey slips up so they can start roasting Borats.






TurAr said:


> As I said before, if a Russian jet to violate Turkish airspace once again you would not only end up with a downed jet but also with destroyed SAMs and possibly with a sunken ship.







 what are you going to destroy the S-400 with? It has a range of 250 miles. It can destroy Turkish jets and cruise missiles over Turkish territory. The funny thing is Russia can bombard Turkey from Russian territory with cruise missiles and conventional ICBMs while at the same time having the ability to shoot down Turkish aircraft due to S-400 coverage yet Turkey does not have these capabilities. You are day dreaming and overestimating what Turkey can and can't do.

Turkey has old aircraft, old diesel subs, no ICBMs, short range cruise missiles, no strategic bombers, ect.





TurAr said:


> Do you really think Russia is in a position to impose sanctions on a country like Turkey while Russian economy itself suffering and crumbling under the sanctions?






Yes they are in a position to impose sanctions since Russia and Turkey have annual trade of at least 30 billion. Not counting the billions of dollars Russian vacationers infuse into the Turkish economy and all the billionaires and millionaires that do business in Turkey.

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## flamer84

ptldM3 said:


> These are the same people that booed the victims of the Paris attacks and shouted Allah Akbar, what were you expecting? What is disturbing is that shooting downed airmen in a parachute is a war crime by the Geneva Convention and the world is quiet. Even more disturbing is that the body was desecrated by being stripped and by the looks of the pilots face which was cut, swollen and bloody i would say its possible they beat him to death or desecrated him further.
> 
> I recall someone said that a US official praised the terrorists for "defending their country" ironic that now war crimes are praised and foreign jihadist now call Syria their country.





Your hypocrisy is disgusting.,utterly disgusting.But than again,it's the Russian way.

1.Russia is helping the terrorists in Donbass against the LEGITIMATE goverment of Ukraine.If Assad is legitimate the elected Ukrainian goverment is more than that.
2.Russian separatist terrorist supported by Russia have broken every Geneva Convention rule out there from desecrating the bodies of Ukrainian soldiers to humiliating them publicly and torturing them.
3.Russian backed terrorists have downed a civilian airliner killing ALL passengers.
4.If Russia has the right to help Russians in Ukr,so does Turkey for Turkmens.

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## Kyle Sun

TurAr said:


> Are you really holding Turkey in the same basket with Georgia and Ukraine? Do you even have the slightest idea what an offense on a country like Turkey would cost for Russia? The 'losses' wouldn't be small I assure you. Putin knows it, that's why we haven't seen anything and we won't as long as Turkey continues to play it smart.


Your gov rushed to the P5 and NATO.
it reminds me my poodles dog which will hide behind me and keeps barking when she gets into trouble .
Without NATO, you will not bark so loudly

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## cirr

Turkey is henceforth known by the world as a country that not only harbours terrorists but also fights alongside the terrorists。

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## tugberksamur

Russia deployed s-400s on november 13?


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## Adıvar

Russia is an agressive state costantly harrasing its neighbours. Violation of Turkish Air Space is not their first. They did it to some European countries before too.

I hope Russia got his lesson this time and no more again it will do such things.

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## ptldM3

Adıvar said:


> Russia is an agressive state costantly harrasing its neighbours. Violation of Turkish Air Space is not their first. They did it to some European countries before too.
> 
> I hope Russia got his lesson this time and no more again it will do such things.




Iraq just accused Turkey of violating its airspace. Turkey has regularly violated Syrian, Cyprus, and Greek airspace. The Syrians and Greeks shot down Turkish warplanes hopefully Turkey violates Syrian airspace and gets a taste of its own medicine again.

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## senses

Turks, Chinese, Indians and Russians on a single thread, won't be surprised to see 200th page soon.

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## mpk1988

Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet - BBC News

Backtrack.. Before it gets worse and you screw yourself.

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## Paksanity

Dear funny Indian members,

Find the courage to condemn this as well with same vigor.

Israel shoots down Syrian plane over Golan - Al Jazeera English

And the wreckage of Syrian aircraft fell on Syrian side. Also this Syrian aircraft technically did not even violate Israeli airspace as under UN Golan is an occupied territory belonging to Syria. Not let us see you bashing Israel, shall we?

International law is clear and equal for all nation states. You violate anyone's airspace, they have the right to shoot. Whether they shoot or don't is entirely a different debate. It is their decision. What is important is their right to defend their airspace and Türkiye just chose to exercise its right in this instance.

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## TurAr

Turkish Russian relationships are way too important for the both country to be sacrificed for the personal shows of Putin or anyone else. Putin must come back to his senses before its too late and he shouldn't leave Turkey's attempts to de-escalate the situation unanswered.



Kyle Sun said:


> Your gov rushed to the P5 and NATO.
> it reminds me my poodles dog which will hide behind me and barks when she gets into trouble .
> Without NATO, you will not bark so loudly



Turkey shot down a Russian jet out of the blue sky for no apparent reason according to Russia. I don't see how you can correlate it with an ingredient in Chinese cuisine..?

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## tugberksamur

ptldM3 said:


> Iraq just accused Turkey of violating its airspace. Turkey has regularly violated Syrian, Cyprus, and Greek airspace. The Syrians and Greeks shot down Turkish warplanes hopefully Turkey violates Syrian airspace and gets a taste of its own medicine again.


 Tricky russian troll is trying to manipulate. Please do not reply this guy till now.

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## Kamil_baku

Gibbs said:


> Turkey 'will work' to calm tension over downed Russian jet - BBC News
> 
> Looks like the rhetoric from Erdogan and his goons is softening after a good telling off from his NATO masters.. Thats the reality
> 
> Chest thumping is good for the ignorant masses but it's never too late to realize the epic shit he got himself and the country in to..
> 
> " However, he told France 24 television: "If we had known it was a Russian plane, maybe we would have warned it differently"


Erdogan said no apology and if it happened, i would down it again! 
Why do you take some words that all politicians start with? be a man!


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## 帅的一匹

sooner or later Turkey has to apologize otherwise those Turkmen will be vaporized by RUSAF.


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## Kyle Sun

TurAr said:


> Turkish Russian relationships are way too important for the both country to be sacrificed for the personal shows of Putin or anyone else. Putin must come back to his senses before its too late and he shouldn't leave Turkey's attempts to de-escalate the situation unanswered.
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey shot down a Russian jet out of the blue sky for no apparent reason according to Russia. I don't see how you can correlate it with an ingredient in Chinese cuisine..?



just tell me why your.pm rushed to the nato and p5. your pm should be the champ of.100m run .

even ukriane did not do that.


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## Kamil_baku

Kyle Sun said:


> just tell me why your.pm rushed to the nato and p5. your pm should be the champ of.100m run .
> 
> even ukriane did not do that.


it is part of the rule in NATO. if any such action happened, All Nato members should be informed... Turkey didnt ask any help.. But i am sure, as a troll like you, you will ask the same question again and again..


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## Saurabh jindals

Everyone refresh his mood
Erdogan’s Twisted Logic: S-400 Must Not Shoot Down Turkish Jets Over Syria |


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## Frosty

I think what should be addressed here is the fact RuAF did in fact violate the Turkish airspace regardless of how many minutes or seconds the Russian jet stayed there, which is a clear violation of international law (*The Russians violated the Turkish airspace* *plenty of times prior to that as Turkey did summon the Russian ambassador and told him the continuance of their airspace violation is not acceptable and will be dealt with if i did not stop*) Turkey 'cannot endure' Russian violation of airspace, president says | World news | The Guardian

*^Tuesday 6 October 2015

*
It is in fact a normal procedure when foreign aircraft violate territorial airspace to be warned and shot at.


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## Dash

ptldM3 said:


> Iraq just accused Turkey of violating its airspace. Turkey has regularly violated Syrian, Cyprus, and Greek airspace. The Syrians and Greeks shot down Turkish warplanes hopefully Turkey violates Syrian airspace and gets a taste of its own medicine again.



I have a feeling that IRAQ is going to shutdown TuAF planes next time they enter Iraq. Thats the plan being hatched.



Frosty said:


> I think what should be addressed here is the fact RuAF did in fact violate the Turkish airspace regardless of how many minutes or seconds the Russian jet stayed there, which is a clear violation of international law (*The Russians violated the Turkish airspace* *plenty of times prior to that as Turkey did summon the Russian ambassador and told him the continuance violation of their airspace is not acceptable and will be dealt with if i did not stop*) Turkey 'cannot endure' Russian violation of airspace, president says | World news | The Guardian
> 
> *^Tuesday 6 October 2015
> 
> *
> It is in fact a normal procedure when foreign aircraft violate territorial airspace to be warned and shot at.



They violated so much that in 17 second Turky was able to give 21 warnings. Heck you cant get passed to more than 2 warning during that time.

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## mpk1988

Saurabh jindals said:


> Everyone refresh his mood
> Erdogan’s Twisted Logic: S-400 Must Not Shoot Down Turkish Jets Over Syria |



This idiot will spell doom for his innocent countrymen.

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## Frosty

Dash said:


> I have a feeling that IRAQ is going to shutdown TuAF planes next time they enter Iraq. Thats the plan being hatched.
> 
> 
> 
> They violated so much that in 17 second Turky was able to give 21 warnings. Heck you cant get passed to more than 2 warning during that time.



A warning is issued to a Jet *approaching* territorial airspace to go back or else. Doesn't matter how many seconds it stayed there.

Turkish pilot issued the following warning to the Russian jet "'*You are approaching Turkish airspace*'"

You can go back and and check the recording Turkey has published.

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## GURU DUTT

Dash said:


> I have a feeling that IRAQ is going to shutdown TuAF planes next time they enter Iraq. Thats the plan being hatched.
> 
> 
> 
> They violated so much that in 17 second Turky was able to give 21 warnings. Heck you cant get passed to more than 2 warning during that time.


well what turkey as a nation is about to find owt the wrong way is what its like to bully someone who is more agressive and bigger and ruthless than all those combined on whose support you bullied the weak 



Frosty said:


> I think what should be addressed here is the fact RuAF did in fact violate the Turkish airspace regardless of how many minutes or seconds the Russian jet stayed there, which is a clear violation of international law (*The Russians violated the Turkish airspace* *plenty of times prior to that as Turkey did summon the Russian ambassador and told him the continuance of their airspace violation is not acceptable and will be dealt with if i did not stop*) Turkey 'cannot endure' Russian violation of airspace, president says | World news | The Guardian
> 
> *^Tuesday 6 October 2015
> 
> *
> It is in fact a normal procedure when foreign aircraft violate territorial airspace to be warned and shot at.


trust me sirji the time to give such explanations has expired for turkey and now they will know the hard way who actually is the boss in that area as niether the UK/USA nor the NATO is going to rescue turkey as they themselfs have been on recieving end from those turkey always supported


----------



## Frosty

GURU DUTT said:


> well what turkey as a nation is about to find owt the wrong way is what its like to bully someone who is more agressive and bigger and ruthless than all those combined on whose support you bullied the weak
> 
> 
> trust me sirji the time to give such explanations has expired for turkey and now they will know the hard way who actually is the boss in that area as niether the UK/USA nor the NATO is going to rescue turkey as they themselfs have been on recieving end from those turkey always supported



Respectfully, There is no one boss in the world we live in. There are international laws that must be respected. Germany once was considered "a boss" if not a Titan and was brought down by several allied countries that was considered less advanced.

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## GURU DUTT

Frosty said:


> Respectfully, There is no one boss in the world we live in. There are international laws that must be respected. Germany once was considered "a boss" if not a Titan and was brought down by several allied countries that was considered less advanced.


well there are no rules when you take on someone like russia when you are so close to it and those who can help you are so far and also when you had an habit of using your assets against them (here i mean NATO Nations)covertly or overtly which one day were you only defnce against the likes of russia ....... and if turkey thinks they can get away with it without paying dearly for it then all i can say is good luck turkey


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## Dash

Frosty said:


> A warning is issued to a Jet *approaching* territorial airspace to go back or else. Doesn't matter how many seconds it stayed there.
> 
> Turkish pilot issued the following warning to the Russian jet "'*You are approaching Turkish airspace*'"
> 
> You can go back and and check the recording Turkey has published.



oh, we have a Turkey supporter here...no problem Sir. I dont want to debate about it here anymore. I am convinced as much as the rest of the world. The articles in favor of Russian claims outweigh at least 50 times than the Turkey theory, including articles in teh west, the so called ally of Turkey. You can go check US radar data and do your analysis. Heck even the Americans are confused.

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## ptldM3

tugberksamur said:


> Tricky russian troll is trying to manipulate. Please do not reply this guy till now.




Another Turk that is in denial. Complain about your airspace being violated, then go and violate the airspace of every country in the region.



Here Borat:

Turkey violates Iraqi airspace while attacking Kurdish region ...


Who is the troll? Also remind everyone why Syria shot down a Turkish F-4 and why Greece shot down a Turkish F-16. Turkey wants it both ways, complain about its airspace being violated yet violate Greek airspace (over 1400 incidents last year). And it goes beyond violations Turkey is violates Syrian and Iraqi airspace and bombs targets.

The Turkish president went from making threats to Russia to now wanting to meet Putin and claiming Turkey would have acted differently if they knew the aircraft was Russian. The sanctions Russia has imposed on Turkey will bite hard. Additionally Turkish actions have forced Russia to deploy S-400s and other air defenses which now have coverage over much of Turkey.

Turkey screwed itself.

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## GURU DUTT

ptldM3 said:


> Another Turk that is in denial. Complain about your airspace being violated, then go and violate the airspace of every country in the region.
> 
> 
> 
> Here Borat:
> 
> Turkey violates Iraqi airspace while attacking Kurdish region ...
> 
> 
> Who is the troll? Also remind everyone why Syria shot down a Turkish F-4 and why Greece shot down a Turkish F-16. Turkey wants it both ways, complain about its airspace being violated yet violate Greek airspace (over 1400 incidents last year). And it goes beyond violations Turkey is violates Syrian and Iraqi airspace and bombs targets.
> 
> The Turkish president went from making threats to Russia to now wanting to meet Putin and claiming Turkey would have acted differently if they knew the aircraft was Russian. The sanctions Russia has imposed on Turkey will bite hard. Additionally Turkish actions have forced Russia to deploy S-400s and other air defenses which now have coverage over much of Turkey.
> 
> Turkey screwed itself.


thing is its one matter to talk about might with those weaker than you and its another matter when some one many times mightier gets going to engage you in your game when you provoked him..... and now turkey gonna find it the wrong way


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## Frosty

Dash said:


> oh, we have a Turkey supporter here...no problem Sir. I dont want to debate about it here anymore. I am convinced as much as the rest of the world. The articles in favor of Russian claims outweigh at least 50 times than the Turkey theory, including articles in teh west, the so called ally of Turkey. You can go check US radar data and do your analysis. Heck even the Americans are confused.



That's a presumption. Where did I write "I'm a Turkey Supporter" on here? I don't even subscribe to the word Supporter to my own Country as it suggests blindly approving every decision it has taken.

I'm here to talk facts not to count how many articles are with or against what party. There is no logic to that. Fact is crystal clear to me, to NATO and even to the Russians themselves. Which is why Turkey refused appolgising and why NATO approved of Turkeys right to defend its airspace and why Russia has settled with increasing the bombing of FSA. 
.

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## Blue Marlin

KingWest said:


> If IS gets most of their revenue by selling oil, than why dont Russia/US/FRANCE bomb those oil raffinaderies?


your question is the answer. oil, money


----------



## Dash

Frosty said:


> That's a presumption. Where did I write "I'm a Turkey Supporter" on here? I don't even subscribe to the word Supporter to my own Country as it suggests blindly approving every decision it has taken.
> 
> I'm here to talk facts not to count how many articles are with or against what party. There is no logic to that. Fact is crystal clear to me, to NATO and even to the Russians themselves. Which is why Turkey refused appolgising and why NATO approved of Turkeys right to defend its airspace and why Russia has settled with increasing the bombing of FSA.
> .



Sometimes we cant take facts at face value, especially when the situation is clumy, hence demands further scrutiny, which is a fact in itself.

Let me counter you your own arguments.



> You - Fact is crystal clear to me, to NATO and even to the Russians themselves



Its not clear to NATO itself. link here

Quoting him-


> _The United States believes that the Russian jet shot down by Turkey on Tuesday was hit inside Syrian airspace after a brief incursion into Turkish airspace, a U.S. official told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.
> The official said that assessment was based on detection of the heat signature of the jet._



Although he admits the fighter has been crossed into Turkey bu his statements are convoluted and can have double meaning. And its a fact that NATO will overtly support Turkey.

Here is former Turkish General himself here
Quoting him -


> _former head of the Turkish General Staff's Intelligence Department Hakki Pekin condemned Turkey's decision to shoot down a Russian Su-24 bomber, describing it as a "big mistake."_





> You - Turkeys right to defend its airspace



This is just routine like I said above. Trust me if the days comes and it just might if Turkey had to shoot down a NATO ally plane. You will see all this going out of the window. You and me and all know what NATO is and what you "have" to say when one of your ally is hit.

Tell me why Cameron and Hollande are so talking to US to set up a joint command centre with Russia if they see Russia as an adversary while Russia settles with bombing FSA according to you. FSA is NATO right?



GURU DUTT said:


> well what turkey as a nation is about to find owt the wrong way is what its like to bully someone who is more agressive and bigger and ruthless than all those combined on whose support you bullied the weak



They have to and they will but at a time of their choosing.

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## Ceylal

Azeri440 said:


> it certainly speaks volume *regarding your stupidity*



they own a pretty famous restaurant in Turkey , and here is even a thread on reddit about it.
You are azerbaijani, you were born stupid.




[/QUOTE]

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## Kyle Sun

Kamil_baku said:


> it is part of the rule in NATO. if any such action happened, All Nato members should be informed... Turkey didnt ask any help.. But i am sure, as a troll like you, you will ask the same question again and again..


Inform all nato members and P5 ? you sure it's nato rule ?


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## cnleio

Russian official confirmed S-400 now deployed in Syria

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## Ceylal

Frosty said:


> A warning is issued to a Jet *approaching* territorial airspace to go back or else. *Doesn't matter how many seconds it stayed there.*


Bullshit! They are procedures that all the countries observe. The Russian plane was ambushed and the action of the Turks are deliberate, planned and executed for reasons that only the Turcs know the answer




> Turkish pilot issued the following warning to the Russian jet "'*You are approaching Turkish airspace*'"


Normally what should have tacken place:
A visual contact with the pilot of the offending contact , by flying against it and order him to leave by a gesture or a wing signal to order him to land
If the aircraft doesn't replies, the turkish pilot should have fired tracers in each side of the offending plane to notify its pilot that he received authorisation to use deadly force...



> You can go back and and check the recording Turkey has published.


Inaudible, probably fake and debunked by the surviving pilot..


----------



## Azeri440

Ceylal said:


> they own a pretty famous restaurant in Turkey , and here is even a thread on reddit about it.
> You are azerbaijani, you were born stupid.
> View attachment 275322


[/QUOTE]

you got facts in your face , yet you continue with your ignorance 

you come from a sh*thole called Algeria , save me the trouble of owning you even more on here


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## Rangila

'Erdogan's Family Trace in Su-24 Downing': Revenge for Ruining Oil Deals?

Russia Suspends Visa-Free Regime With Turkey - Lavrov

German MP to Ankara: Exit NATO and Forget About EU Membership

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## Ceylal

Dash said:


> They violated so much that in 17 second Turky was able to give 21 warnings. Heck you cant get passed to more than 2 warning during that time.


Turcs are scrambling to cover their @sses after they received a lukewarm reply from their NATO bodies. Due to the proximity of the Turkish border to the airfield from which the SU24 took off and the geography of the area, encroachment of the Turkish border is hard to avoid, but last few seconds. The Russians plane have not shown any hostile postures toward Turkey, it was just hitting targets that were protected by Turcs.


you got facts in your face , yet you continue with your ignorance[/quote]
Like I told you, you were born stupid ....
Putin has just closed Bilal business for good










> you come from a sh*thole called Algeria , save me the trouble of owning you even more on here


Tell that to the Azarbaijanis who preferred to throw themselves from five story building when they were told their contract is to expire and they have to return to their wonderland.

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## [TR]AHMET

Finally i found this map that i had been looking for to show where Russia has been bombing none stop for the last 10 days.. So i ask once again, what does bombing Turkmen Mountain have to do with the war against ISIL? They should stop the hypocricy!

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## mpk1988

Many points to consider here:

Did Russia violate Turkish Airspace?:
If so, was this conveyed earlier? 
Russia claims their movements were conveyed to their American counterparts. If so, it was highly foolish of Turkey to down the jet. 
Were Turkish warnings given in due time: Conflicting claim by both sides
Turkey says that if they knew it was a Russian jet then the response would've been different and the warning also. Is this simply feigning innocence or actual ignorance about the jet?

If no, then Russia will exact revenge and the back-tracking by Turkey might not be enough.

Finally, questions regarding Turkey violating airspace of Iraq, Syria and Greece come up which can be used to question Turkey's actions.


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## KingWest

Blue Marlin said:


> your question is the answer. oil, money


Then how can you only blame Turkey, when the whole world is actually to blame for buying this dirty oil?


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## cnleio

Thanksgiving

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## Blue Marlin

KingWest said:


> Then how can you only blame Turkey, when the whole world is actually to blame for buying this dirty oil?


who is IS selling oil to, turkey or to europe? turkey can easily cut them of and stop the supply of money, but they choose to give them money in return for oil.
my perception of turkey has now changed to being negative.

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## T-123456

ptldM3 said:


> @T-123456 the Turks had it coming as well from the Syrians and Greeks and soon when the Turks screw up again like they did with the Greeks and Syrian they will be downed.


What Syrians,the whole world knows that downing the F-4 was Russia's work?
Dont worry about the Greeks,they are to busy with their own problems.
Lets see what the future brings.



cnleio said:


> Thanksgiving
> View attachment 275345


The only platform(PDF) where you are *allowed* to have an opinion huh?







Blue Marlin said:


> who is IS selling oil to, turkey or to europe? turkey can easily cut them of and stop the supply of money, but they choose to give them money in return for oil.
> my perception of turkey has now changed to being negative.


When was it positive,all i see from you is like what the dwarf army does,only anti Turkiye?


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## Rangila

Erdogan's Twisted Logic: S-400 Must Not Shoot Down Turkish Jets Over Syria

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## Blue Marlin

T-123456 said:


> What Syrians,the whole world knows that downing the F-4 was Russia's work?
> Dont worry about the Greeks,they are to busy with their own problems.
> Lets see what the future brings.
> 
> 
> The only platform(PDF) where you are *allowed* to have an opinion huh?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When was it positive,all i see from you is like the dwarf army does,only anti Turkiye?


firstly is positive when your profiting from something? secondly i wasnt anti turkey. but now you can say i sort of am anti turkey. im man enough to admit it. but its worth noting i hate the turkish government not the turkish people. turkey is a good country but too bad the government has to ruin it.

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## T-123456

Blue Marlin said:


> firstly is positive when your profiting from something? secondly im wasnt anti turkey. but now you can say i sort of am anti turkey. im man enough to admit it. but its worth noting i hate the turkish government not the turkish people. turkey is a good country but too bad the government has to ruin it.


As long as you are honest about it,it is to be respected.


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## Nadezhda

Russia should be grateful to Turkey !
BECAUSE:
With this downing:
1. A pretext gave to the Russia’s hands to create a no fly zone in Syria, which was aimed by NATO previously. 
2.S400 missile systems moved to Syria without getting reaction by any country. 
3.It gained legitimacy to Russia for its all actions which is planning in Syria in the near future. 
4. Russia became a victim country; this will open up new opportunities in the region.


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## batmannow

Turkey 'temporarily' suspends Syria air strikes after Russia spat - World - DAWN.COM


I well come this wise move of Turkish govt , it will cool down the much heated atmosphere in the region , & will give a boost to the action against terrorists within sirya , who are not any friends to anyone .


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## FullSerivce

The Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS U.S. Air Force plane flew up on November 24 from Prevez's air base in Greece. The second E-3A of the Air Force of Saudi Arabia flew up from air base of Riyadh. Both planes carried out one general task — determination of exact location of the VKS planes of Russia. They also chose "victim".

The American E-3A had to define a mode of behavior of RLS of steering of the Su-24M2 plane weapon, check, whether there is it in a condition of search or already executed capture and accompanies the purpose, developing data for firing. It is known that AWACS can steer actions of aircraft in fight and transfer BREO and PNK of planes information for conducting combat operations.

That is, to determine how helpless our plane ?

It turns out that, yes . As you know, the Su- 24M2 was returning from a mission , and his NCP worked in the " navigation" in conjunction with GLONASS , he walked to the base and is not ready to take action . E-3 all the time passed details of the Su- 24M2 pair patrol Turkish F-16CJ. This aircraft is specially produced for Turkey. Its feature is the presence of the computer , run the new radar AN / APG- 68 and fulfill the role of co-pilot , navigator.

But this information is not enough to enter the high-speed target. I used something else?

Indeed, output precision fighter F-16CJ further provides ground-based US Patriot air defense, stationed in Turkey, or rather their multifunctional radar AN / MPQ-53. Patriot air defense system can work with the E-3 electronic reconnaissance satellites and MENTOR, it is possible that the satellite constellation was more SC "GEOSTAT."
The flight path F-16CJ talking about precision output to the target by the method of triangulation: a pair of E-3A radar plus the Patriot air defense system plus RER MENTOR geostationary satellites, and possibly the SC "GEOSTAT."
At the same time the E- 3 was allowed to indicate where our aircraft in the air is determined by its train , speed, status of weapons control , radar air defense system Patriot conjunction with the satellite signals intelligence MENTOR provide telemetry Movement Su- 24M2 to the ground - that is, gave an accurate forecast sector appearance of our the aircraft relative to the mountainous terrain 

It turns out that Turkish fighter exactly know where our plane waiting in ambush ?

Of course. A pair of F-16CJ went to the area of start-up and at a distance of 4-6 kilometers, almost at point blank range ( ! ) Let the missile "air -to-air » AIM-9X Sidewinder in the rear hemisphere Russian bomber . This radar AN / APG- 68 fighter jet launched a rocket operates on a " target illumination " : Turn at start-up and shut off after the rocket firm grip and hit the target

I did our pilots the ability to save the plane?

No. Chance to avoid defeat at the Su-24M2 crew were zero.
Against missiles AIM-9X with a new matrix infrared seeker, the imaging target in the infrared range, and insensitive to heat trap, the Su-24M2 is no counter systems. His means of countering: BKO "Carpathians", the station warning radar illumination ACT-15C teplopelengator LO-82 to detect missile launches, the station posing jamming SPS-161, the device release chaff and false thermal purposes AMS-50 - can not confront new missile AIM-9X.

And if there was support for the fighters ?

Now it will be. Of course, the tragedy could have been prevented pair of Su- 30cm , have adopted BKO " Hibiny - In ." But no one was waiting to strike back against an ally , especially warning about the details of the operation of our partner.

ou mean the " American partners " , most of those who belong to the "Patriots " and " AWACS " , as well as satellites , possibly involved in the operation?

Yes, with a high degree of probability. No Turkey 's own capacity for such meticulous and very precise work . And do not forget the second the E-3 , assigned to the Air Force KSA . The whole scenario quite fleeting , the score went to second.

Is everything went so smoothly?

The Turks still make a mistake, because of the provocation which is not entirely successful. F-16CJ took to defeat late in 2 minutes, when the Su-24M2 has already left the station 68 km disputed territory in northern Syria (its flight it took 1.5 minutes maximum). Team "defeat» F-16CJ not canceled, so the missile launch was carried out a little further calculation point. This is confirmed by the fact that shooting the fall of the Su-24M2 was planned as from the territory of Syria, and with Turkey, but "Syrian" pictures in more detail. It seems that it saved and our navigator. He was able to go to the "Zelenka" and wait for the search party there.

sorry for google.translate


----------



## -SINAN-

WebMaster said:


> Love seeing the Turks have no fear of mother Russia.


My only fear is; our boys won't be getting laid with the Russian wifes this summer.

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## Some1LikeU

Now I undertand well why the chineese in favour of their husband Putin's side and angry to us... Hey its finished boyz!..

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Ceylal said:


> Turcs are scrambling to cover their @sses after they received a lukewarm reply from their NATO bodies. Due to the proximity of the Turkish border to the airfield from which the SU24 took off and the geography of the area, encroachment of the Turkish border is hard to avoid, but last few seconds. The Russians plane have not shown any hostile postures toward Turkey, it was just hitting targets that were protected by Turcs.
> 
> 
> 
> you got facts in your face , yet you continue with your ignorance


Like I told you, you were born stupid ....
Putin has just closed Bilal business for good
View attachment 275339





Tell that to the Azarbaijanis who preferred to throw themselves from five story building when they were told their contract is to expire and they have to return to their wonderland.[/QUOTE]

As far as i know this is Afganistan not Syria....Taliban militants had attacked a huge convoy of Pakistani oil tankers when they were supplying US forces fuel on the route of Afganistan.......


----------



## Gazprom

FullSerivce said:


> The Boeing E-3 Sentry AWACS U.S. Air Force plane flew up on November 24 from Prevez's air base in Greece. The second E-3A of the Air Force of Saudi Arabia flew up from air base of Riyadh. Both planes carried out one general task — determination of exact location of the VKS planes of Russia. They also chose "victim".
> 
> The American E-3A had to define a mode of behavior of RLS of steering of the Su-24M2 plane weapon, check, whether there is it in a condition of search or already executed capture and accompanies the purpose, developing data for firing. It is known that AWACS can steer actions of aircraft in fight and transfer BREO and PNK of planes information for conducting combat operations.
> 
> That is, to determine how helpless our plane ?
> 
> It turns out that, yes . As you know, the Su- 24M2 was returning from a mission , and his NCP worked in the " navigation" in conjunction with GLONASS , he walked to the base and is not ready to take action . E-3 all the time passed details of the Su- 24M2 pair patrol Turkish F-16CJ. This aircraft is specially produced for Turkey. Its feature is the presence of the computer , run the new radar AN / APG- 68 and fulfill the role of co-pilot , navigator.
> 
> But this information is not enough to enter the high-speed target. I used something else?
> 
> Indeed, output precision fighter F-16CJ further provides ground-based US Patriot air defense, stationed in Turkey, or rather their multifunctional radar AN / MPQ-53. Patriot air defense system can work with the E-3 electronic reconnaissance satellites and MENTOR, it is possible that the satellite constellation was more SC "GEOSTAT."
> The flight path F-16CJ talking about precision output to the target by the method of triangulation: a pair of E-3A radar plus the Patriot air defense system plus RER MENTOR geostationary satellites, and possibly the SC "GEOSTAT."
> At the same time the E- 3 was allowed to indicate where our aircraft in the air is determined by its train , speed, status of weapons control , radar air defense system Patriot conjunction with the satellite signals intelligence MENTOR provide telemetry Movement Su- 24M2 to the ground - that is, gave an accurate forecast sector appearance of our the aircraft relative to the mountainous terrain
> 
> It turns out that Turkish fighter exactly know where our plane waiting in ambush ?
> 
> Of course. A pair of F-16CJ went to the area of start-up and at a distance of 4-6 kilometers, almost at point blank range ( ! ) Let the missile "air -to-air » AIM-9X Sidewinder in the rear hemisphere Russian bomber . This radar AN / APG- 68 fighter jet launched a rocket operates on a " target illumination " : Turn at start-up and shut off after the rocket firm grip and hit the target
> 
> I did our pilots the ability to save the plane?
> 
> No. Chance to avoid defeat at the Su-24M2 crew were zero.
> Against missiles AIM-9X with a new matrix infrared seeker, the imaging target in the infrared range, and insensitive to heat trap, the Su-24M2 is no counter systems. His means of countering: BKO "Carpathians", the station warning radar illumination ACT-15C teplopelengator LO-82 to detect missile launches, the station posing jamming SPS-161, the device release chaff and false thermal purposes AMS-50 - can not confront new missile AIM-9X.
> 
> And if there was support for the fighters ?
> 
> Now it will be. Of course, the tragedy could have been prevented pair of Su- 30cm , have adopted BKO " Hibiny - In ." But no one was waiting to strike back against an ally , especially warning about the details of the operation of our partner.
> 
> ou mean the " American partners " , most of those who belong to the "Patriots " and " AWACS " , as well as satellites , possibly involved in the operation?
> 
> Yes, with a high degree of probability. No Turkey 's own capacity for such meticulous and very precise work . And do not forget the second the E-3 , assigned to the Air Force KSA . The whole scenario quite fleeting , the score went to second.
> 
> Is everything went so smoothly?
> 
> The Turks still make a mistake, because of the provocation which is not entirely successful. F-16CJ took to defeat late in 2 minutes, when the Su-24M2 has already left the station 68 km disputed territory in northern Syria (its flight it took 1.5 minutes maximum). Team "defeat» F-16CJ not canceled, so the missile launch was carried out a little further calculation point. This is confirmed by the fact that shooting the fall of the Su-24M2 was planned as from the territory of Syria, and with Turkey, but "Syrian" pictures in more detail. It seems that it saved and our navigator. He was able to go to the "Zelenka" and wait for the search party there.
> 
> sorry for google.translate



Link?


----------



## 500

500 said:


> Radar diagram released by Turkey:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Radar" diagram released by Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some kid drew with red marker on map  Not also sharp turn in the end. They needed it to explain fall trajectory but it does not make any sense.


Probably Russian MoD read my message. They made a new version closer to Turkish without stupid sharp turns.

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## xenon54 out

Ceylal said:


> Turcs are scrambling to cover their @sses after they received a lukewarm reply from their NATO bodies. Due to the proximity of the Turkish border to the airfield from which the SU24 took off and the geography of the area, encroachment of the Turkish border is hard to avoid, but last few seconds. The Russians plane have not shown any hostile postures toward Turkey, it was just hitting targets that were protected by Turcs.


Is that how you support your claims?
With pictures that are from a completely differend incident in a completely different country happened 4 years ago?

In Pakistan, militants set tanker truck convoy ablaze; US strike said to kill 4 - The Boston Globe








500 said:


> Probably Russian MoD read my message. They made a new version closer to Turkish without stupid sharp turns.


Gotta love how Russians hide the radar track but publish maps made with paint, smells guilty.

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## KingWest

Blue Marlin said:


> who is IS selling oil to, turkey or to europe? turkey can easily cut them of and stop the supply of money, but they choose to give them money in return for oil.
> my perception of turkey has now changed to being negative.


Even Belgium apperantly buys oil from IS, even Assad buys oil from ISIS. If thats that big of a problem, why dont the americans etc dont just bomb the oil raffinaderies? Your perception of Turkey turns negativ because it doesnt act while no one acts.


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## Hussein

KingWest said:


> Even Belgium apperantly buys oil from IS, even Assad buys oil from ISIS. If thats that big of a problem, why dont the americans etc dont just bomb the oil raffinaderies? Your perception of Turkey turns negativ because it doesnt act while no one acts.


Turkey is the main buyer . nothing to compare with any European country
(i didn't hear about Belgium anyway)


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## Gibbs

Kamil_baku said:


> Erdogan said no apology and if it happened, i would down it again!
> Why do you take some words that all politicians start with? be a man!



Dude .. You're asking for me to be a man ? Take a look at your own posts, Childish chest beatings, Silly caricatures and offensive pics of dead tortured servicemen, Massive delusions of grandeur 

And pls stop quoting me

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## Adıvar

500 said:


> stupid sharp turns.


 May it be because of scale of the map ?


Hussein said:


> Turkey is the main buyer . nothing to compare with any European country
> (i didn't hear about Belgium anyway)



I am tired of reading some westerners claim Turkey buys ISIS oil with no legal evidence.

The fact is;

1. *U.S. Says Syria Is Buying Oil From ISIS
*
2*. European Countries Buying Oil from Islamic State Terrorists, Says EU Ambassador 
*
3. *Turns out that Russians are in oil trade with ISIS*

To a certain extent, i can understand The West making black propaganda against Turkey which is mostly muslim and their historical enemy. But, i have difficulties to understand some muslims or some easterners being whiter than whites...

(Forum did not allow me to give links because i am new. Anyway, you can easliy find them by Googleing.

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## waz

SiCiSi said:


> I dont have time for dragging anyone into anything. Im telling you the truth and if you dont like it. Too bad.
> 
> Attacks in your country have been brought down because your PM is a billionaire and with residences and businesses in the middle east. He stopped construction of the Iran-pak pipeline as ordered by the arabs.
> 
> Mark my words if you want, the attacks in pakistan will resume as soon as you have a leader who decides to go ahead with that pipeline. Arabs want pakistanis weak and dependent on gulf oil. They will do everything in their power to make sure that state of dependence remains. You cannot do anything about it even if you wanted.
> 
> As for pakistan doing well, you still cant provide electricity to your people despite the largest oil producer in the world being your primary 'muslim brother' and still need foreign aid to eat.
> 
> Doing very well indeed.



If you were telling the truth you wouldn't have to proclaim it. 
The attacks have been bought down due to the actions of the armed forces. Not because Nawaz is keeping them away due to his investments in the Middle East. The groups in question have their focus on the Khurasan region, and have no interest in the Middle East. I'm for the pipeline as well. 
As for providing electricity to the people, Pakistan is working on it, and no one needs foreign aid to eat. 
By the way, that was ever so classy of you to add the insult at the end, but do carry on. I'm sure it will be a useful learning experience to those amongst us who advocate friendship with you.

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## proka89




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## fox 2

Russians playing the stupid kid. They are now saying Turkish radars and 2 F-16 tracked Russians planes over 105 mins.
And thay say this is ambush !!!!!!!! My god. 
We are tracking the bird over Israel. Of course we gonna track our borders. And our planes patrolling the borders 7/24.

They got peoples but in diplomatic ways they are really f4cked up.


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## lionheartsalahudin

waz said:


> If you were telling the truth you wouldn't have to proclaim it.
> The attacks have been bought down due to the actions of the armed forces. Not because Nawaz is keeping them away due to his investments in the Middle East. The groups in question have their focus on the Khurasan region, and have no interest in the Middle East. I'm for the pipeline as well.
> As for providing electricity to the people, Pakistan is working on it, and no one needs foreign aid to eat.
> By the way, that was ever so classy of you to add the insult at the end, but do carry on. I'm sure it will be a useful learning experience to those amongst us who advocate friendship with you.


i think if we feared arab backlash and cut back on our fundings we would never have rejected to send force sinto yemen unanimaously in parliament so iranian pipe line if it is stalled has nothing to do with we fearing arab's wrath on us through proxy extremist scums ,yes pakistan has problems but those are due to mismanagement not due to lack of resources ,our cotton is best in the world but we don't have electricity to run textile mills to cash in on the final clothe,our mangoes and mandrins are the most sweet arnd the world but all of the agriculture produce face a bottle neck due to missmanagement we could have a agriculture economy well enough to rival california,brazil or australia if all the factors of production are there plus willing competent administrators,and that is only one side of the economy agricultural haven't mentioned the potential in trade routes,industry and minning ,tourism etc so pakistan does'nt hae to be worried abt cash from any one only thing we need to worry abt is getting our act together probably education

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## Yellow-place

Erdoğan is not a cartoon tiger like Putin, you will learn this. This was just an intro, just a slap, but if you go with this mind you will have a stick on your head and then you will only cry again in forums...


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## FlyCheatter

Downed in 17 seconds? Where Turkey’s story of Su-24 violating airspace just doesn’t add up — RT News


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## Ceylal

xenon54 said:


> Is that how you support your claims?


You need to watch the news. Obama distanced himself,followed the DoD and NATO thru statements. 
Not to mention statements that came out the Turkish government, between thinking it was an Israeli, US or Syrien and they didn't know it was Russian...The attack was deliberate...and your allies know it..


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## FlyCheatter

https://www.rt.com/news/323369-turkey-downed-russian-jet/video/ (02:30)


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## Ceylal

Yellow-place said:


> Erdoğan is not a cartoon tiger like Putin, you will learn this. This was just an intro, just a slap, but if you go with this mind you will have a stick on your head and then you will only cry again in forums...


He is a bouffon [jester]for the Muslim brotherhood that dreams to have him as the supreme leader..but to Russia


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## madmusti

@Ceylal


Shame on you !







I mean how you get the Star & Crescent on your Flag ? 

Give the Weapons that you got 55 Years ago !!!

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## DontShootMeBro

Ceylal said:


> Turcs are scrambling to cover their @sses after they received a lukewarm reply from their NATO bodies. Due to the proximity of the Turkish border to the airfield from which the SU24 took off and the geography of the area, encroachment of the Turkish border is hard to avoid, but last few seconds. The Russians plane have not shown any hostile postures toward Turkey, it was just hitting targets that were protected by Turcs.
> 
> \Tell that to the Azarbaijanis who preferred to throw themselves from five story building when they were told their contract is to expire and they have to return to their wonderland.



Don't get your knickers in a bunch, hold your horses there hero. 

I thought Algeria and Turkey were friends, allies and Muslim brothers? What happened?



[TR]AHMET said:


> Finally i found this map that i had been looking for to show where Russia has been bombing none stop for the last 10 days.. So i ask once again, what does bombing Turkmen Mountain have to do with the war against ISIL? They should stop the hypocricy!




QFT.


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## Beidou2020

Turkish members were all over the forum jumping for joy after downing the Russian jets and killing a defenceless pilot.

Turkish members and its fanboys are nowhere to be found now after seeing Russia's response of bombing the Turkmen (Turkey powerless to stop it), bombing the trucks that carry weapons to Syria on the border, deploying the S-400, deploying the Moskva missile cruiser and Putin promising anymore attacks on Russia will see a swift retaliation.

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## Ceylal

DontShootMeBro said:


> Don't get your knickers in a bunch, hold your horses there hero.
> 
> I thought Algeria and Turkey were friends, allies and Muslim brothers? What happened?


I am representing myself here just like most of the PDF's contributing to this subject, and maybe Algerian poll.
Algerian government has a spokesman. Beside it has never been at least for me, Muslim vs other religion , it is mainly about right and wrong...The Russian plane wasn't a threat to Turkey, otherwise the Russians would have sent it with an escort.

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## DontShootMeBro

Ceylal said:


> I am representing myself here just like most of the PDF's contributing to this subject.Algerian government has a spokesman. Beside it has never been at least for me, Muslim vs other religion , it is mainly about right and wrong...The Russian plane wasn't a threat to Turkey, otherwise the Russians would have sent it with an escort.



Russians have been bombing Turkmen's and the shooting of Russian jet was in way to deter from further bombings from happenings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out. 

Besides, Russia has no place to be in Syria. The real axis of evil are Asad-Russia-Iran chain.

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## fox 2

How Russia got caught by his own hands about Su-24 ?


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## Beidou2020

DontShootMeBro said:


> Russians have been bombing Turkmen's and the shooting of Russian jet was in way to deter from further bombings from happenings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.
> 
> Besides, Russia has no place to be in Syria. The real axis of evil are Asad-Russia-Iran chain.



And how did that deterrence work out for ya?


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## Ceylal

DontShootMeBro said:


> Russians have been bombing Turkmen's and the shooting of Russian jet was in way to deter from further bombings from happenings. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out.


That and to cover ISIS oil traffic to Turkey.I think the later cause was detrimental in order for Erdogan to hide the other side of his posture against the Islamic State.



> Besides, Russia has no place to be in Syria. The real axis of evil are Asad-Russia-Iran chain.


Syria is an ally to Russia and it is the Syrian government that asked for Russian help. Russian didn't come uninvited as the US, GCC and NATO

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## DontShootMeBro

Beidou2020 said:


> And how did that deterrence work out for ya?



Doesnt change the fact that Chinese have the smallest penises in the world. 

Are you trying to compensate for something little Chinese man?


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## Beidou2020

DontShootMeBro said:


> Doesnt change the fact that Chinese have the smallest penises in the world.
> 
> Are you trying to compensate for something little Chinese man?



Turkey has been utterly humiliated by Russia bombing the Turkmen out of existence. Your Turkmen people are getting exterminated in brutal and barbaric fashion by the Russian military.

Turkey is powerless to stop it. Absolutely powerless.

How does it feel to be helpless when your own people are getting bombed and dying in the thousands with each passing hour?

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## FlyCheatter

...said many time, Syria is - intenationaly recognized county (or isn't it) with one legitimate force who officially asked Russia in to assist fighting illegal internation "comunity" torrorising the country. Therefore, Russin is only legitimate force in the region due to int law...
..Saying that i.e only Syria should protect it's aircpace (not Russia) from invasions ... well ... say to pooosey erdogan who, just after ambushing returning to base su-24 the first thing did is ran to NATO to suckk cucks in there for they helping him/cover ..
.. then all the rubbish about turkmen - .. yeah -yeah, "_bad Assad just came to kill nice civilian turkmen just for fun"_ (must be), - reality is that there are just terrorist from all over the World (and particularly 1-2000 terrorist from Russian/Caucases) torrorising the nation/country of Syria (could have seen the "civilian turkmen" who were killing and torturing the body of Russian pilot - hi is/was member of 'Grey Wolfs' the internal turkey terrorist groups and son of Head of some small city in turkey) .. so please tell more about "civilian farmers turkmen who just for nothing slottered by bad Russians and Assad"... than the main reason to opperate in the north on Syria - to lock the border with turky, the country with spreads terror to Syrian territory / supply, funding, healing bastards, trades ISIS oil, stollen arts and so on ...

Source: Erdogan's Twisted Logic: S-400 Must Not Shoot Down Turkish Jets Over Syria Read more: http://sputni | Page 4

... so fcuck off...

Downed in 17 seconds? Where Turkey’s story of Su-24 violating airspace just doesn’t add up — RT News

p.s Turkey arrests two journalists on terrorism charges

Source: Why is there a sudden fond of Russia all over the world. | Page 2



> PRESS RELEASE
> 
> FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
> Contact: Ken Grubbs, 202.225.0145
> November 25, 2015
> 
> Rohrabacher Statement on Turkey’s Clash with Russia
> 
> WASHINGTON – Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, and Emerging Threats, on Saturday issued the following statement concerning Turkey’s shooting down of a Russian jet fighter on the Turkey-Syria border:
> 
> It is imperative that American decision-makers admit to themselves and begin basing their decisions on the hard fact that Islamic terrorism poses the primary threat to our safety and the peace of the world.
> 
> Our president seems incapable of uttering the phrase Islamic terrorism, much less of overseeing a policy that will defeat this evil. His incoherence is ever more evident as events in Syria unfold.
> 
> Not radical Islam, but the Russians have been portrayed to us as the villains in this chapter of history. Yet our government demonstrates a lack of will, incompetence, or both, in confronting the most monstrous of the radical Islamic marauders now spilling vast quantities of innocent blood in the Middle East -- as well as in Africa and France.
> 
> When Russia courageously stepped into the breach we should have been applauding its willingness to confront ISIS. Instead, we continue to denigrate Russians as if they were still the Soviet Union and Putin, not Islamic terrorists, our most vicious enemy.
> 
> So now we see the travesty of a harsh condemnation of the Russians for introducing air strikes against terrorists who will murder Americans if they get the chance.
> 
> Yes, Russia does this to protect Syria’s authoritarian Assad regime, which has close ties to Moscow. So what?
> 
> Assad, like Iraq’s Saddam Hussein, is no threat to the United States or the Western world. If Assad is forced out of power he will eventually be replaced by an Islamic terrorist committed to raining down mayhem on Western countries.
> 
> Today we witness the spectacle of American decision- makers, in and out of the Obama administration, joining forces with a Turkish regime that grows more supportive of the radical Islamist movement. There is ample evidence of President Erdogan’s complicity in ISIS’s murderous rampage through Syria and Iraq.
> 
> Yet, we hold our public rebukes for the Russians, who are battling those terrorists. A Russian plane on an anti-terrorist mission did violate Turkish airspace, just as Turkish planes have strayed into Greek airspace hundreds of times over the last year. This overflight was no threat to Turkey. Still, it was shot down, as was a Russian helicopter on the way to rescue the downed Russian pilot.
> 
> Why do Americans feel compelled to kick Russia in the teeth? Russia’s military is attacking an enemy that would do us harm. Why ignore the hostile pro-terrorist maneuvering of Turkish strongman Erdogan?
> 
> President Obama is wrong. American politicians who try to sound tough at Russia’s expense in this case are not watching out for the long-term interests of the United States by undermining those fighting our primary enemy, Islamic terrorists.
> 
> Russia should be applauded. Instead, it is being castigated for doing what our government is unwilling to do to confront the terrorist offensive now butchering innocent human beings from Africa, to the Middle East, to the streets of Paris.
> 
> If being in NATO means protecting Erdogan in this situation, either he shouldn’t be in NATO or we shouldn’t.

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## Kamil_baku

Gibbs said:


> Dude .. You're asking for me to be a man ? Take a look at your own posts, Childish chest beatings, Silly caricatures and offensive pics of dead tortured servicemen, Massive delusions of grandeur
> 
> And pls stop quoting me


then stop trolling and spread wrong information dickhead!

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

FlyCheatter said:


> ...said many time, Syria is - intenationaly recognized county (or isn't it) with one legitimate force who officially asked Russia in to assist fighting illegal internation "comunity" torrorising the country. Therefore, Russin is only legitimate force in the region due to int law...
> ..Saying that i.e only Syria should protect it's aircpace (not Russia) from invasions ... well ... say to pooosey erdogan who, just after ambushing returning to base su-24 the first thing did is ran to NATO to suckk cucks in there for they helping him/cover ..
> .. then all the rubbish about turkmen - .. yeah -yeah, "_bad Assad just came to kill nice civilian turkmen just for fun"_ (must be), - reality is that there are just terrorist from all over the World (and particularly 1-2000 terrorist from Russian/Caucases) torrorising the nation/country of Syria (could have seen the "civilian turkmen" who were killing and torturing the body of Russian pilot - hi is/was member of 'Grey Wolfs' the internal turkey terrorist groups and son of Head of some small city in turkey) .. so please tell more about "civilian farmers turkmen who just for nothing slottered by bad Russians and Assad"... than the main reason to opperate in the north on Syria - to lock the border with turky, the country with spreads terror to Syrian territory / supply, funding, healing bastards, trades ISIS oil, stollen arts and so on ...
> 
> Source: Erdogan's Twisted Logic: S-400 Must Not Shoot Down Turkish Jets Over Syria Read more: http://sputni | Page 4
> 
> ... so fcuck off...
> 
> Downed in 17 seconds? Where Turkey’s story of Su-24 violating airspace just doesn’t add up — RT News
> 
> p.s Turkey arrests two journalists on terrorism charges
> 
> Source: Why is there a sudden fond of Russia all over the world. | Page 2



RUssian police arbitrarily took 24 Turkish bussinesmen into custody in a commercial fair in Moscow and they will be kept in detention for 10 days...
Your country has no laws and rules... act like a mafia state...

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## Random111

> The crew of the Russian Sukhoi Su-24M 'Fencer' strike aircraft downed by Turkey on 23 November may not have been able to hear radio warnings issued by the Turkish Air Force, Russian sources tell _IHS Jane's_ .
> 
> Turkish authorities have stated that the aircraft was warned 10 times within a five-minute period. However, the surviving crewmember told Russian media on 25 November that he and the aircraft commander, who was shot from the ground while parachuting, did not receive the signal.
> 
> Russian specialists familiar with the R-862 model VHF radio installed on the Su-24M say it requires an optional add-on receiver module in order to receive emergency channel transmissions in the ultra-high frequency (UHF) and very high frequency (VHF) bands.



Russian Su-24M communications equipment blamed for shootdown | IHS Jane's 360


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## DontShootMeBro

Russia is in a massive decline at the moment with a collapsing economy which has shrunk %4 of GDP in Q3 2015 and the following quarters are predicted to be the same. 

It also has a shrinking population that will become extinct in the next century. 

In 15-20 years time Turkey will surpass Russia population wise, have x10 better economy and x10 better indigenous military equipment.

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## Beast

DontShootMeBro said:


> Russia is in a massive decline at the moment with a collapsing economy which has shrunk %4 of GDP in Q3 2015 and the following quarters are predicted to be the same.
> 
> It also has a shrinking population that will become extinct in the next century.
> 
> In 15-20 years time Turkey will surpass Russia population wise, have x10 better economy and x10 better indigenous military equipment.



You forget who is the backer of Russia?

Just like many predict collapse of Egypt economy but many forget they have Saudi finance to back them. Until now, Egypt are on military buying spree with Rafale, Mistral LHD and many weapons.

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## Gibbs

Kamil_baku said:


> then stop trolling and spread wrong information dickhead!



Lol.. Any sensible neutral can see who posts hysterical childish rants.. What a pooftah 

Again stop quoting me kid

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## TurAr

*5 OCTOBER 2015*: Syria conflict: Nato warns Russia on air strikes - BBC News

*Syria conflict: Nato warns Russia on air strikes*

Nato has urged Russia to end air strikes "on the Syrian opposition and civilians", days after Moscow began raids to support Syria's government.

Moscow says it is targeting Islamic State and other Islamist positions, but US-led allies and Turkey say government opponents are targeted.

*Turkish F-16 fighter jets were scrambled after a Russian plane entered Turkey's air space on Saturday.*

Russia said the violation was for just a few seconds and due to poor weather.

*Saturday's interception took place near Yayladagi in the southern Hatay region, Turkey says. The foreign ministry in Ankara said it had summoned the Russian ambassador to issue a "strong protest".*

*Turkish jets patrolling the border were also "harassed" by an unidentified plane on Sunday, Turkey said.*

*A statement by Nato's 28 members, that include Turkey, warned of "the extreme danger of such irresponsible behaviour" and urged Russia "to cease and desist".*

*US Secretary of State John Kerry said Turkey would have been within its rights to shoot the jets down.

"The Turkish Armed Forces are clearly instructed," Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu told Turkish TV. "Even if it is a flying bird, it will be intercepted."*

But he played down the possibility of a "Turkey-Russia crisis", saying that channels between the two countries remained open.

(...)

*Analysis - Jonathan Marcus, BBC Defence & Diplomatic Correspondent*
The Russian incursion into Turkish air space has set alarm bells ringing in Nato with Alliance ambassadors describing it as "irresponsible behaviour".

The US Secretary of State John Kerry has also expressed his concern, noting that this is "precisely the kind of thing" Washington warned about in pressing Russia for talks to avoid mid-air incidents.

Turkish jets shot down a Syrian Mig-fighter in March of last year. Another Syrian aircraft, possibly a helicopter, was shot down last May.

Nato has called on Russia to "take all necessary measures" to ensure that such violations do not take place in the future. American sources claim that, far from being an accident, the Russian pilots knew exactly what they were doing.

As the Russian air campaign moves into a higher gear, this episode illustrates some of the wider dangers involved.

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## Hussein

Adıvar said:


> May it be because of scale of the map ?
> 
> 
> I am tired of reading some westerners claim Turkey buys ISIS oil with no legal evidence.
> 
> The fact is;
> 
> 1. *U.S. Says Syria Is Buying Oil From ISIS
> *
> 2*. European Countries Buying Oil from Islamic State Terrorists, Says EU Ambassador
> *
> 3. *Turns out that Russians are in oil trade with ISIS*
> 
> To a certain extent, i can understand The West making black propaganda against Turkey which is mostly muslim and their historical enemy. But, i have difficulties to understand some muslims or some easterners being whiter than whites...
> 
> (Forum did not allow me to give links because i am new. Anyway, you can easliy find them by Googleing.


as i say most of the oil going to your country

it could be some go somewhere else but still your country is the main buyer
even in your articles this is about very small quantities in Europe and not something governments can clearly manage

there is no propaganda there. NYT is the best newspaper ever in the world. very professional.

it is not like press tv or your Erdogan cheat newspapers or al arabiya wahhabi newspaper

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## EnggineerShahjehan

LeGenD said:


> We didn't break USSR.


We played a major role, yes there were other players mainly US and Saudi funding's and support, but u can not deny Pakistani contribution in that .


----------



## Tiqiu

DontShootMeBro said:


> Doesnt change the fact that Chinese have the smallest penises in the world.
> 
> Are you trying to compensate for something little Chinese man?



Indeed the goats know the size of Turks' very well,no wonder you are nicknamed goat-pumping Turks. However I do know the size of your brain, which was spoken clearly and loudly on TV by your PM: "There's not a 180 degree difference between our Islam and ISIS's, there's a 360 degree difference". My suggestion to the Turks: go back to school and finish at least y5 maths subject.

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## Some1LikeU

In 1983 South Korean passenger plane Downey by Russia 269 person dead cause of its border Violations.Pls somebody explain why didn't Russian warned them 10 times although its a civilian plane? Which county can do such a terrible thing?
- Ding Dong.
Answer is Russia....
Sake of remember to S.Korean who dead in plane...

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## Perpendicular

Recent Russian airstrikes near Turkish border.


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## SecularNationalist

DontShootMeBro said:


> Besides, Russia has no place to be in Syria. The real axis of evil are Asad-Russia-Iran chain.


So who really deserve to be in syria?The ISIS?


----------



## Nadezhda

_Turkey-Russia jet downing: Erdogan 'saddened' over plane: BBC News_

Recep Tayyip Erdogan said he wished the incident had not happened and hoped it would not happen again.

He has so far refused to apologise to Russia, accusing Moscow of "playing with fire" in its Syria operations.

The president's remarks came as Turkey warned its citizens against non-essential travel to Russia.

*Analysis: Mark Lowen, BBC News, Istanbul*
He mentioned the "s" word - but not the one Vladimir Putin wanted.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan's expression of "sadness" is an olive branch. But President Putin says he expects a "sorry" from his Turkish counterpart, refusing to answer the phone to Mr Erdogan until it's uttered.

Both strongmen leaders are trying a difficult balancing act - pleasing their nationalist supporters at home while trying not to destroy a vital bilateral relationship.

Moscow says it will re-impose visa restrictions on Turks from January. Ankara has warned against "all but essential travel" for its citizens to Russia. There is talk of wider economic sanctions and tough rhetoric - President Putin calling Turkey an "accomplice of terror", President Erdogan saying Russia should not "play with fire".

But the two countries depend on each other economically - Russia is Turkey's second-largest trading partner - and they need to unite to defeat Islamic State. So it's still likely they'll avoid this escalating out of control. Expect more inching forward in the days ahead, if not the full-blown apology that both sides want.

_Mr Erdogan has asked for a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, but Mr Putin wants an apology from Turkey before he will agree to talks._

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## Tiqiu

The Wall Street Journal: U.S.Urges Turkey to Seal the Boarder

I say Mr.Putin is playing a big fire. Can't help to ask what about those seblings


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## Nadezhda

Signs of desperation, this is Turkey's difficult choice - close the borders and still be a member of NATO, but lose profits, or keep the borders open, risk it for a neo ottoman empire, and see if you take it all or lose it all .



Tiqiu said:


> The Wall Street Journal: U.S.Urges Turkey to Seal the Boarder
> 
> I say Mr.Putin is playing a big fire. Can't help to ask what about those seblings


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## damm1t

- " Benim uçağımı kimse... "
- " Sen sus ulan ayı! "

Its really disgusting to see russians, chinese and indians at a gay party at the same time... licking each other.. ugh

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## proka89

The fans of basketball team Red Star Belgrade pay their respects to the deceased Russian pilot Sergej Rumjancev.



Embedded media from this media site is no longer available

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## pher

damm1t said:


> - " Benim uçağımı kimse... "
> - " Sen sus ulan ayı! "
> 
> Its really disgusting to see russians, chinese and indians at a gay party at the same time... licking each other.. ugh


how gay will be like this???

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## damm1t

pher said:


> how gay will be like this???
> 
> View attachment 275553



Look like this,,

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## Wvatha

Anybody remember *Korean Air Lines Flight 007 *in 1983 ? Do a little search.

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## FullSerivce

DontShootMeBro said:


> Russia is in a massive decline at the moment with a collapsing economy which has shrunk %4 of GDP in Q3 2015 and the following quarters are predicted to be the same.
> 
> It also has a shrinking population that will become extinct in the next century.
> 
> In 15-20 years time Turkey will surpass Russia population wise, have x10 better economy and x10 better indigenous military equipment.



Turkey is so often at war with Russia , and not won a single war . Turks nothing else to do but hope that sometime in the future, Russian die themselves ..

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## Jaanbaz

Immanuel said:


> ahaha Turkey is turning out to be the Pakistan of that area, pretty much everybody hates them



Go lynch people over eating beef retard. Stop bringing Pakistan in everything, stop your obsession with us. Its like a dog which keeps following you, you try to shoo it away but It doesn't stop, from time to time it only stops to sniff his own ***.

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## Juicer

Turks just did as USA told them to do .... just like Saddam and his crazy war against Iran and Kuwait .... now , USA is enjoying tension between Russia and Turkey ....

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## madmusti




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## patientlion212

I believe that what hurts Putin the most is that Erdogan is a MUSLIM . they r afraid of the rise of islam in Turkey .


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## damm1t

patientlion212 said:


> I believe that what hurts Putin the most is that Erdogan is a MUSLIM . they r afraid of the rise of islam in Turkey .



What rises in Turkey none of Putin's bizniz.. He should focus on Russia's economy..



Juicer said:


> Turks just did as USA told them to do .... just like Saddam and his crazy war against Iran and Kuwait .... now , USA is enjoying tension between Russia and Turkey ....



Would you stop this USA obsession please, did USA tell Russia to violate our airspace?

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## DontShootMeBro

SecularNationalist said:


> So who really deserve to be in syria?The ISIS?



Russia is using ISIS as a pretext to bomb Sunni Syrians and Turkmens within Syria.

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## madmusti




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## DontShootMeBro

End of the day, Turkey takes the burden with 2.5 Million Refugees on its soil that costs tax payers $billions


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## farhan_9909

Interesting Read.We shot down USSR Su 25 1988

*Shooting Down the First Soviet Su-25 - August 4, 1988*

One of the most lethal weapons used by the Soviet Union in Afghanistan was their latest fighter bomber, the SU-25.

*During one of its night engagements with the Pakistani F-16 inside Pakistan, the SU-25 was shot down and its Russian pilot who ejected was taken POW. The Pilot of the SU-25, Colonel Rudskoi Alexander Vladimirovich, was also the Inspector of SU-25s deployed in Afghanistan. *

He was eventually handed over to the Russian authorities on 16 August 1988. *This officer rose to the position of Vice President of Russia in 1991. *

Squadron Leader Athar Bukhari of No 14 Squadron was the pilot of the F-16 while this night interception was conducted on radar by Squadron Leader Taufiq Raja

Shooting Down the First Soviet Su-25 - August 4, 1988 - History of PIA - Forum


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## ArsalanKhan21

Again and again Putin has proved to be better strategist. Erdogan was first fooled by 2009 Turkey-Armenia and now by Putin planned Russian fighter incusion of Turkey. Just shows to prove that Turks are no match for the master strategist Putin !

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## damm1t

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Again and again Putin has proved to be better strategist. Erdogan was first fooled by 2009 Turkey-Armenia and now by Putin planned Russian fighter incusion of Turkey. Just shows to prove that Turks are no match for the master strategist Putin !



Hell yeah let's hail the great rasPUTIN







Probably this great strategist didn't calculate it will cost minimum couple of dozens of billions dollars to russian economy which is already in pain... Anyway he knows the best..

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## DontShootMeBro

ArsalanKhan21 said:


> Again and again Putin has proved to be better strategist. Erdogan was first fooled by 2009 Turkey-Armenia and now by Putin planned Russian fighter incusion of Turkey. Just shows to prove that Turks are no match for the master strategist Putin !



The great strategist Putin is the cause of its economy going down the drain, as more sanctions to follow soon which will see the Russian economy winding back greater than it is now. 

*Russian GDP dropped by a more dramatic 4.6% in the second quarter.*

*The Russian economy took another slide in the third quarter, slipping by 4.1% *

*Russia’s Economic Stagnation*

*"They (Russia) are now the 15th-largest economy in the world, and they rank somewhere behind Spain," White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest told reporters.*

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## madmusti



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## cabatli_53

Koral ED/ET system are agreed to be sent to Syrian border to absorb Russian radar signatures to prepare a surprise counter electronic attack to Russian SAM batteries When It is needed !






Firtina Howitzers directed its gun to Russian troop positions in border, is waiting order to drop the shells on Russian troops !

An image from Today !





It is the first time Turkish Modern tanks are proceeding to directly Syrian border for future surprises !

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## damm1t

cabatli_53 said:


> Koral ED/ET system are agreed to be sent to Syrian border to absorb Russian radar signatures to prepare a surprise counter electronic attack to Russian SAM batteries When It is needed !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firtina Howitzers directed its gun to Russian troop positions in border, is waiting order to drop the shells on Russian troops !
> 
> An image from Today !
> 
> 
> Modern tanks are proceeding to directly Syrian border for future surprises !



Damn.. now some russian ( or chinese, indian, iranian ) will come to threat us with nukes.. they are the "real men" with nukes after all...

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## FullMetalJacket

damm1t said:


> Damn.. now some russian ( or chinese, indian, iranian ) will come to threat us with nukes.. they are the "real men" with nukes after all...


 
No, that's only what the pakistanis do.


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## cabatli_53

damm1t said:


> Damn.. now some russian ( or chinese, indian, iranian ) will come to threat us with nukes.. they are the "real men" with nukes after all...




They can nuke their own holes freely but Launching a nuclear warhead to another country requires a huge huge ballz cause It is considered as a crime against humanity. Only children talk such way in forums !

Actually, It is no need to do much things because Such stresses will cause Russian economy to collapse in a few years ! Sanctions gave them serious damage but They can't put their superpower dreams away to care about their economy...

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## madmusti

This enough for the S-400  even the "splash" will finish the job !

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## cabatli_53

madmusti said:


> This enough for the S-400  even the "splash" will finish the job !




Bro, It is the reason Army opened the production facility of Firtina + Poyraz vehicles to press officials (yesterday) to give a correct message to hostile countries !

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## NL_Turk

cabatli_53 said:


> Koral ED/ET system are agreed to be sent to Syrian border to absorb Russian radar signatures to prepare a surprise counter electronic attack to Russian SAM batteries When It is needed !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Firtina Howitzers directed its gun to Russian troop positions in border, is waiting order to drop the shells on Russian troops !
> 
> An image from Today !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is the first time Turkish Modern tanks are proceeding to directly Syrian border for future surprises !



Could the KORAL system in theory render the s400/300 batteries ineffective or would it make it just more difficult? 

Also, if I'm not wrong, the s300 or s400 have never been actually battle proven so how much of a big threat are they with Turkish counter measures? 

Putin trolls seem to not get enough of chest thumping about the s400 arrival as if they've already won a battle. 
Would be glorious if TSK suddenly managed to disable them like putting out a candle.

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## cabatli_53

NL_Turk said:


> Could the KORAL system in theory render the s400/300 batteries ineffective or would it make it just more difficult?
> 
> Also, if I'm not wrong, the s300 or s400 have never been actually battle proven so how much of a big threat are they with Turkish counter measures?
> 
> Putin trolls seem to not get enough of chest thumping about the s400 arrival as if they've already won a battle.
> Would be glorious if TSK suddenly managed to disable them like putting out a candle.




Bro, EW systems make monitoring/tracking/intercept missions difficult, sometimes impossible for radar systems. There are several methods to do such missions. Everything commence with absorbing a hostile radar electromagnetic waves to generate a methods to counter attack. Once the signals received, Rest is about the capabilities of developed system and Turkey is the rare nation which has a vast of capabilities to reveal many different variant of own sensors and suits for all naval, land and aerial platforms. Koral is the land based one. Two aerial equivalent is under development phase ! Until Aerial jammer projects called "Hava-SOJ" and "Multi-Int" completed, Turkey's AWACS called "Baris Kartali" is going to do such missions..

















Those systems will be more than enough to open a safe corridor to AirForce strategic assets to carry out their bombing missions whenever they wants. If we consider Turkey's strategic cruise missile capabilities, Stationing batteries hundreds km away from our borders will cause a serious headache to anybody.







but I think It is really correct time to introduce some ballistic missiles which has a range over 1500km in our arsenal. I hope Army will also agree on such propaganda actions ! No one takes you serious If you keep showing a 200km range missile which was produced in 1997, While a country like Russia poses an open threat to us !


Last years, Turkey has revealed a few image to introduce nuclear arsenal which was given by NATO. Later, Turkey's Aselsan has charged to develop Weapons Storage and Security System (WS3) worth 80 million TL for nuclear bombs as well.










Bombalar ABD’den, güvenlik Türkiye’den

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## Beidou2020

cabatli_53 said:


> They can nuke their own holes freely but Launching a nuclear warhead to another country requires a huge huge ballz cause It is considered as a crime against humanity. Only children talk such way in forums !
> 
> Actually, It is no need to do much things because Such stresses will cause Russian economy to collapse in a few years ! Sanctions gave them serious damage but They can't put their superpower dreams away to care about their economy...



Russia has been vaporising your Turkmen brothers out of existence and you haven't been able to do a damn thing to stop it. Turkey is utterly powerless.

Russia is now not only wiping the entire Turkmens off the map, Russia is bombing the trucks that send all the weapons to Syria from Turkey.

Turkey doesn't have the guts to touch Russsia anymore. You wanna know why?
Your Air Force is petrified of doing anything because the S-400 and the Russian fighters will wipe your entire Air Force out of existence. Putin also said Russia also has electronic warfare units in place.

Your pipe dream of toppling Assad has vanished.

To make it worse your economy will suffer as you lose Russian tourists (big contributor to Turkish economy) and access to the Russian market. There are analysts in China that are saying China should stop doing business with Turkey due to its role in sponsoring terrorism. Your economy will go down the drain within the next few months. Just watch.

Russia is also shutting down the biggest industry in Turkey.....the terrorism industry.

Turkey is all talk, no action. Your entire country is being embarrassed by Russia and exposing Turkey is too cowardly to stop Russia bombing the Turkmens out of existence.

You decided to mess with mother Russia, now enjoy the payback

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## Azeri440

.


Beidou2020 said:


> Russia has been vaporising your Turkmen brothers out of existence and you haven't been able to do a damn thing to stop it. Turkey is utterly powerless.
> 
> Russia is now not only wiping the entire Turkmens off the map, Russia is bombing the trucks that send all the weapons to Syria from Turkey.
> 
> Turkey doesn't have the guts to touch Russsia anymore. You wanna know why?
> Your Air Force is petrified of doing anything because the S-400 and the Russian fighters will wipe your entire Air Force out of existence. Putin also said Russia also has electronic warfare units in place.
> 
> Your pipe dream of toppling Assad has vanished.
> 
> To make it worse your economy will suffer as you lose Russian tourists (big contributor to Turkish economy) and access to the Russian market. There are analysts in China that are saying China should stop doing business with Turkey due to its role in sponsoring terrorism. Your economy will go down the drain within the next few months. Just watch.
> 
> Russia is also shutting down the biggest industry in Turkey.....the terrorism industry.
> 
> Turkey is all talk, no talk. Your entire country is being embarrassed by Russia and exposing Turkey is too cowardly to stop it.



Lol , how would Russian base in Syria wipe out Turkish Air Force?

even if let's say in your wild imagination they take down 10 Turkish fighters , Turkey can easily bomb the entire base out of existence with simple T-155 Firtina 

Lol Russian tourists don't run the Turkish economy , Russians make up 3 mil out of 40+ million visitors in Turkey 
Russian tourism companies that profited from getting cheap deals for their people are the ones that will be suffering 
Turkey will barely feel the impact.

Russian "economic sanctions" are a joke , they list of sanctions includes f*cking tomatoes.

at the end of the day Russian exports a lot more to Turkey than Turkey does to Russia , so your saying of Turkish economy suffering does not make sense when you look at the numbers

Turkey has a $20 bil deal for Nuclear Plants with Russia , now that contract will go to someone else 
Turkey wanted to build a gas pipeline to Turkey , to further export it's gas to Europe, that dream also died
now Turkey is focusing on TANAP and TAP and is working with Azerbaijan to even speed up the project.

at the end of the day Turkey took down a Russian plane and Russia has been the one with all talk 


oh and Russian economy is already suffering with European sanctions.

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## Beidou2020

Azeri440 said:


> .
> 
> 
> Lol , how would Russian base in Syria wipe out Turkish Air Force?
> 
> even if let's say in your wild imagination they take down 10 Turkish fighters , Turkey can easily bomb the entire base out of existence with simple T-155 Firtina
> 
> Lol Russian tourists don't run the Turkish economy , Russians make up 3 mil out of 40+ million visitors in Turkey
> Russian tourism companies that profited from getting cheap deals for their people are the ones that will be suffering
> Turkey will barely feel the impact.
> 
> Russian "economic sanctions" are a joke , they list of sanctions includes f*cking tomatoes.
> 
> at the end of the day Russian exports a lot more to Turkey than Turkey does to Russia , so your saying of Turkish economy suffering does not make sense when you look at the numbers
> 
> Turkey has a $20 bil deal for Nuclear Plants with Russia , now that contract will go to someone else
> Turkey wanted to build a gas pipeline to Turkey , to further export it's gas to Europe, that dream also died
> now Turkey is focusing on TANAP and TAP and is working with Azerbaijan to even speed up the project.
> 
> at the end of the day Turkey took down a Russian plane and Russia has been the one with all talk
> 
> 
> oh and Russian economy is already suffering with European sanctions.



S-400 can wipe out your ENTIRE Air Force. That's why Turkey has been utterly powerless to touch Russia. Turkey has been watching and witnessing Russia exterminate the Turkmens.
Why can't you stop it?

If Turkey managed to grow some balls and attack Russian base, Russian strategic bombers will take out everything that threatens the Russian base and S-400 with cruise missiles. Turkey will also have to deal with Russian electronic warfare units which are one of the worlds best.

Sanctions are being applied from today, let's see the impact. The direct and indirect impact of the sanctions will be seen from now. Your tourism industry is finished as the whole world has now seen how dangerous Turkey is. Many Westerners are already saying Turkey is a dangerous country to travel from the last few weeks. Russian tourism is the least of your worries. Russia can team up with China to sanction Turkey because of Turkey's sponsoring of Uighur terrorists. Turkey is despised in China and China can restrict business with Turkey which will do further damage to Turkey both directly and indirectly. China can use the nuclear economic option of saying anyone doing business with Turkey won't be doing business in China. Guess which country the world prefers to trade and invest between China and Turkey? 

Turkey is an expendable country for Russia, China and NATO. All Turkey provides are an endless supply of terrorists.

Terrorism industry is the biggest industry in the Turkish economy. Without it, Turkey will suffer greatly and that's why it's mad at Russia for taking away its main source of revenue for the Turkish economy.

At the end of the day, Turkey took 1 Russian life. Russia has wiped out an entire race of Turkmen, bombing all trucks from Turkey into Syria and made sure Assad stays in power. Put that in your pipe and smoke it

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## anatolia

Beidou2020 said:


> S-400 can wipe out your ENTIRE Air Force. That's why Turkey has been utterly powerless to touch Russia. Turkey has been watching and witnessing Russia exterminate the Turkmens.
> Why can't you stop it?
> 
> If Turkey managed to grow some balls and attack Russian base, Russian strategic bombers will take out everything that threatens the Russian base and S-400 with cruise missiles. Turkey will also have to deal with Russian electronic warfare units which are one of the worlds best.
> 
> Sanctions are being applied from today, let's see the impact. The direct and indirect impact of the sanctions will be seen from now. Russia can team up with China to sanction Turkey because of Turkey's sponsoring of Uighur terrorists. Turkey is despised in China and China can restrict business with Turkey which will do further damage to Turkey both directly and indirectly. China can use the nuclear economic option of saying anyone doing business with Turkey won't be doing business in China. Guess which country the world prefers to trade and invest between China and Turkey?
> 
> Turkey is an expendable country for Russia, China and NATO. All Turkey provides are an endless supply of terrorists.
> 
> Terrorism industry is the biggest industry in the Turkish economy. Without it, Turkey will suffer greatly and that's why it's mad at Russia for taking away its main source of revenue for the Turkish economy.
> 
> At the end of the day, Turkey took 1 Russian life. Russia has wiped out an entire race of Turkmen. Put that in your pipe and smoke it


poor little kid do not waste peoples time

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## Beidou2020

anatolia said:


> poor little kid do not waste peoples time



Don't waste Russia's time by threatening it for bombing Turkmen but Turkey can't do a damn thing to stop.

Why can't Turkey protect its own people?


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## Oublious

Beidou2020 said:


> S-400 can wipe out your ENTIRE Air Force. That's why Turkey has been utterly powerless to touch Russia. Turkey has been watching and witnessing Russia exterminate the Turkmens.
> Why can't you stop it?
> 
> If Turkey managed to grow some balls and attack Russian base, Russian strategic bombers will take out everything that threatens the Russian base and S-400 with cruise missiles. Turkey will also have to deal with Russian electronic warfare units which are one of the worlds best.
> 
> Sanctions are being applied from today, let's see the impact. The direct and indirect impact of the sanctions will be seen from now. Russia can team up with China to sanction Turkey because of Turkey's sponsoring of Uighur terrorists. Turkey is despised in China and China can restrict business with Turkey which will do further damage to Turkey both directly and indirectly. China can use the nuclear economic option of saying anyone doing business with Turkey won't be doing business in China. Guess which country the world prefers to trade and invest between China and Turkey?
> 
> Turkey is an expendable country for Russia, China and NATO. All Turkey provides are an endless supply of terrorists.
> 
> Terrorism industry is the biggest industry in the Turkish economy. Without it, Turkey will suffer greatly and that's why it's mad at Russia for taking away its main source of revenue for the Turkish economy.
> 
> At the end of the day, Turkey took 1 Russian life. Russia has wiped out an entire race of Turkmen, bombing all trucks from Turkey into Syria and made sure Assad stays in power. Put that in your pipe and smoke it


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## Beidou2020

Oublious said:


>


 
Turk, stop embarrassing yourself in front of Russia. You don't even have the balls to protect your own Turkmen people. Turkey is not only weak, it's also cowardly.

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## Azeri440

Beidou2020 said:


> S-400 can wipe out your ENTIRE Air Force. That's why Turkey has been utterly powerless to touch Russia. Turkey has been watching and witnessing Russia exterminate the Turkmens.
> Why can't you stop it?
> 
> If Turkey managed to grow some balls and attack Russian base, Russian strategic bombers will take out everything that threatens the Russian base and S-400 with cruise missiles. Turkey will also have to deal with Russian electronic warfare units which are one of the worlds best.
> 
> Sanctions are being applied from today, let's see the impact. The direct and indirect impact of the sanctions will be seen from now. Your tourism industry is finished as the whole world has now seen how dangerous Turkey is. Many Westerners are already saying Turkey is a dangerous country to travel from the last few weeks. Russian tourism is the least of your worries. Russia can team up with China to sanction Turkey because of Turkey's sponsoring of Uighur terrorists. Turkey is despised in China and China can restrict business with Turkey which will do further damage to Turkey both directly and indirectly. China can use the nuclear economic option of saying anyone doing business with Turkey won't be doing business in China. Guess which country the world prefers to trade and invest between China and Turkey?
> 
> Turkey is an expendable country for Russia, China and NATO. All Turkey provides are an endless supply of terrorists.
> 
> Terrorism industry is the biggest industry in the Turkish economy. Without it, Turkey will suffer greatly and that's why it's mad at Russia for taking away its main source of revenue for the Turkish economy.
> 
> At the end of the day, Turkey took 1 Russian life. Russia has wiped out an entire race of Turkmen, bombing all trucks from Turkey into Syria and made sure Assad stays in power. Put that in your pipe and smoke it



LOL , stop what? Turkmens haven't lost an inch of land since the beginning of Syrian Civil War , government forces are so incompetent that they can't even manage to take some land from Turkmens and Turkmens don't even have any ATGMs or proper hardware

Russia bombing Turkish aid supplies just shows how THEY can't do anything to Turkey.

S-400 can't wipe out Turkish Air Force , you probably think S-400 has a range of 400km for any target
and I already said that Russian base is within artillery range of Turkey.

the rest of your stupidity does not even make sense , you try to make yourself sound like you are the president of China , making your useless opinion as something that would happen in the future.

LOL , Turkish tourism industry is finished? how about you come back in a year and we'll see how tourism industry is doing ok?

and like I said pretty sure Turkmens are still alive and kicking.

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## Oublious

Beidou2020 said:


> Turk, stop embarrassing yourself in front of Russia. You don't even have the balls to protect your own Turkmen people. Turkey is not only weak, it's also cowardly.




You cheap iphone makers don't have the balls against americans, they fly above your island.Only thing you do is wafwaf...

like now, waf waf waf...

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/704e7a1e-ff6d-11e4-84b2-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3sqFEDzGY

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## anatolia

Beidou2020 said:


> Don't waste Russia's time by threatening it for bombing Turkmen but Turkey can't do a damn thing to stop.
> 
> Why can't Turkey protect its own people?


you must be very bored be chinese instead ofbeing russian puppy around..

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## Azeri440

Oublious said:


> You cheap *iphone makers* don't have the balls against americans, they fly above your island.Only thing you do is wafwaf...
> 
> like now, waf waf waf...
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/704e7a1e-ff6d-11e4-84b2-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3sqFEDzGY


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## T-123456

Beidou2020 said:


> Turk, stop embarrassing yourself in front of Russia. You don't even have the balls to protect your own Turkmen people. Turkey is not only weak, it's also cowardly.


And where are your balls when a US destroyer visits,acts like it owns the place, and look at the name, South *CHINA* Sea???
The troll army,talks alot but actions,no way,i guess the peeking duck is a reality huh?



Oublious said:


> You cheap iphone makers don't have the balls against americans, they fly above your island.Only thing you do is wafwaf...
> 
> like now, waf waf waf...
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/704e7a1e-ff6d-11e4-84b2-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3sqFEDzGY


Do you know a pekinees?





Origin- China
LIfe span-12-15 years
Mass: 3.2 – 6.4 kg (Adult)
Higher classification: Dog
Temperament: Good-natured(must be a mistake), Stubborn, Aggressive, Intelligent, Affectionate, Opinionated.
You expect this one to act or do something about anything?
Its a dwarf doggy!

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## shaheenmissile

So now Erdogan is a Hero for Turks?

Wasnt he portrayed as "Sultan" and Nazi and what not by Turkish people...not long ago?


----------



## Beidou2020

Azeri440 said:


> LOL , stop what? Turkmens haven't lost an inch of land since the beginning of Syrian Civil War , government forces are so incompetent that they can't even manage to take some land from Turkmens and Turkmens don't even have any ATGMs or proper hardware
> 
> Russia bombing Turkish aid supplies just shows how THEY can't do anything to Turkey.
> 
> S-400 can't wipe out Turkish Air Force , you probably think S-400 has a range of 400km for any target
> and I already said that Russian base is within artillery range of Turkey.
> 
> the rest of your stupidity does not even make sense , you try to make yourself sound like you are the president of China , making your useless opinion as something that would happen in the future.
> 
> LOL , Turkish tourism industry is finished? how about you come back in a year and we'll see how tourism industry is doing ok?
> 
> and like I said pretty sure Turkmens are still alive and kicking.



Stop the Turkmen running like rats as Russian bombs are squashing the remaining Turkmen like bugs. Russia has been annihilating the Turkmen areas for days now.

Why do you think Turkey sneak attacked a Russian bomber? Because Turkey didn't like Russia killing its Turkmen and thought it could deter Russian from further bombing. 
You know what Russia did? Russia increased its bombing of Turkmen.

Turkmen are the main weapons smugglers to ISIS. That's why Russia has been killing those Turkmen terrorists and bombing the trucks. Russia is cutting the supply lines and barbarically butchering the Turkmen terrorists that are the middlemen.

Your Air Force is too cowardly to do ANYTHING to Russian bombers doing its job on the Turkmen since the S-400 was deployed and Moskva missile cruiser was deployed and Russia said another attack will see a swift retaliation. 

Turkey hasn't lifted a finger at Russia.

LOL what an absolute noob you are. Your artillery will be wiped out by Russian cruise missiles if Turkey ever managed to get some courage to attack Russia. Russian strategic bombers won't need the base in Syria to destroy Ankara.

Tourism is all about safety. It's not even the number of tourists, it's the spending of the tourists. Once you lose the big spending tourists, Turkish economy will suffer big time. Turkish tourism already declined this year. Turkey's reputation has been damaged greatly in the eyes of the international community due to its role in supporting ISIS. Turkey is not only disliked but unsafe due to ISIS attacks in Paris. Turkey is now linked to ISIS.

The Turkmen that are alive are running like rats scared of Russian bombs as Russia is clearing that area. Just give a couple more weeks, there won't be any Turkmen left and Syrian army will take control of the area 



Oublious said:


> You cheap iphone makers don't have the balls against americans, they fly above your island.Only thing you do is wafwaf...
> 
> like now, waf waf waf...
> 
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/704e7a1e-ff6d-11e4-84b2-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3sqFEDzGY



I'd much rather be an iPhone worker earning a proper living than being terrorist workers like Turks are doing.

America hasn't bombed any Chinese.

Russia has been bombing an entire race of Turkmen and all you could do is sit there and watch.


----------



## T-123456

shaheenmissile said:


> So now Erdogan is a Hero for Turks?
> 
> Wasnt he portrayed as "Sultan" and Nazi and what not by Turkish people...not long ago?


He is not a hero for me,he is an idiot but,when it concerns my country or countrymen,things change and there is no need for heros.
We are Turks,you dont come to our region and act like you own the place,if you try,we will show you your place,it doesnt matter who you are,get it?

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## Beidou2020

T-123456 said:


> And where are your balls when a US destroyer visits,acts like it owns the place, and look at the name, South *CHINA* Sea???
> The troll army,talks alot but actions,no way,i guess the peeking duck is a reality huh?
> 
> 
> Do you know a pekinees?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Origin- China
> LIfe span-12-15 years
> Mass: 3.2 – 6.4 kg (Adult)
> Higher classification: Dog
> Temperament: Good-natured(must be a mistake), Stubborn, Aggressive, Intelligent, Affectionate, Opinionated.
> You expect this one to act or do something about anything?
> Its a dwarf doggy!



Don't worry about China mate. Chinese are not the ones getting bombed. You should worry about your Turkmen getting bombed and your military being utterly helpless to stop it.


----------



## Oublious

Beidou2020 said:


> Stop the Turkmen running like rats as Russian bombs are squashing the remaining Turkmen like bugs. Russia has been annihilating the Turkmen areas for days now.
> 
> Why do you think Turkey sneak attacked a Russian bomber? Because Turkey didn't like Russia killing its Turkmen and thought it could deter Russian from further bombing.
> You know what Russia did? Russia increased its bombing of Turkmen.
> 
> Turkmen are the main weapons smugglers to ISIS. That's why Russia has been killing those Turkmen terrorists and bombing the trucks. Russia is cutting the supply lines and barbarically butchering the Turkmen terrorists that are the middlemen.
> 
> Your Air Force is too cowardly to do ANYTHING to Russian bombers doing its job on the Turkmen since the S-400 was deployed and Moskva missile cruiser was deployed and Russia said another attack will see a swift retaliation.
> 
> Turkey hasn't lifted a finger at Russia.
> 
> LOL what an absolute noob you are. Your artillery will be wiped out by Russian cruise missiles if Turkey ever managed to get some courage to attack Russia. Russian strategic bombers won't need the base in Syria to destroy Ankara.
> 
> Tourism is all about safety. It's not even the number of tourists, it's the spending of the tourists. Once you lose the big spending tourists, Turkish economy will suffer big time. Turkish tourism already declined this year. Turkey's reputation has been damaged greatly in the eyes of the international community due to its role in supporting ISIS. Turkey is not only disliked but unsafe due to ISIS attacks in Paris. Turkey is now linked to ISIS.
> 
> The Turkmen that are alive are running like rats scared of Russian bombs as Russia is clearing that area. Just give a couple more weeks, there won't be any Turkmen left and Syrian army will take control of the area
> 
> 
> 
> I'd much rather be an iPhone worker earning a proper living than being terrorist workers like Turks are doing.
> 
> America hasn't bombed any Chinese.
> 
> Russia has been bombing an entire race of Turkmen and all you could do is sit there and watch.





If we go to war with russians you will be but hurted, we only shooted plane and you actling like bitch. If we go in war with russia you would go crazy.

Americans have put finger in you *** and you asking for more like now. I get tired with making you funny. 

o.c....


----------



## Beidou2020

T-123456 said:


> He is not a hero for me,he is an idiot but,when it concerns my country or countrymen,things change and there is no need for heros.
> We are Turks,you dont come to our region and act like you own the place,if you try,we will show you your place,it doesnt matter who you are,get it?



Nope, I don't get it.

Russia has come to your place and are killing your people.

Turkey is not doing anything to show Russia its place. When is Turkey going to protect its people?



Oublious said:


> If we go to war with russians you will be but hurted, we only shooted plane and you actling like bitch. If we go in war with russia you would go crazy.
> 
> Americans have put finger in you *** and you asking for more like now. I get tired with making you funny.
> 
> o.c....



What?

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## Azeri440

Beidou2020 said:


> Stop the Turkmen running like rats as Russian bombs are squashing the remaining Turkmen like bugs. Russia has been annihilating the Turkmen areas for days now.
> 
> Why do you think Turkey sneak attacked a Russian bomber? Because Turkey didn't like Russia killing its Turkmen and thought it could deter Russian from further bombing.
> You know what Russia did? Russia increased its bombing of Turkmen.
> 
> Turkmen are the main weapons smugglers to ISIS. That's why Russia has been killing those Turkmen terrorists and bombing the trucks. Russia is cutting the supply lines and barbarically butchering the Turkmen terrorists that are the middlemen.
> 
> Your Air Force is too cowardly to do ANYTHING to Russian bombers doing its job on the Turkmen since the S-400 was deployed and Moskva missile cruiser was deployed and Russia said another attack will see a swift retaliation.
> 
> Turkey hasn't lifted a finger at Russia.
> 
> LOL what an absolute noob you are. Your artillery will be wiped out by Russian cruise missiles if Turkey ever managed to get some courage to attack Russia. Russian strategic bombers won't need the base in Syria to destroy Ankara.
> 
> Tourism is all about safety. It's not even the number of tourists, it's the spending of the tourists. Once you lose the big spending tourists, Turkish economy will suffer big time. Turkish tourism already declined this year. Turkey's reputation has been damaged greatly in the eyes of the international community due to its role in supporting ISIS. Turkey is not only disliked but unsafe due to ISIS attacks in Paris. Turkey is now linked to ISIS.
> 
> The Turkmen that are alive are running like rats scared of Russian bombs as Russia is clearing that area. Just give a couple more weeks, there won't be any Turkmen left and Syrian army will take control of the area




is that so? somehow Turkmens still manage to gain more land 

Turkmen regain control of most of Kizildag peak | Middle East | Worldbulletin News

Turkmen are smugglers to ISIS? LOL you should tell them that since they actively fight against ISIS.

you said S-400 can wipe out Turkish Air Force , I said no they can't since the S-400 is within the range of Turkish artillery , then you call me a noob and say Russian cruise missiles will wipe them out

how brain dead are you?

I said come back in a year and we'll see how Turkish tourism industry is doing 

Lol yes couple weeks , the government forces can barely gain any land throughout whole Syria even with Russian air support.

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## Beidou2020

Azeri440 said:


> is that so? somehow Turkmens still manage to gain more land
> 
> Turkmen regain control of most of Kizildag peak | Middle East | Worldbulletin News
> 
> Turkmen are smugglers to ISIS? LOL you should tell them that since they actively fight against ISIS.
> 
> you said S-400 can wipe out Turkish Air Force , I said no they can't since the S-400 is within the range of Turkish artillery , then you call me a noob and say Russian cruise missiles will wipe them out
> 
> how brain dead are you?
> 
> I said come back in a year and we'll see how Turkish tourism industry is doing
> 
> Lol yes couple weeks , the government forces can barely gain any land throughout whole Syria even with Russian air support.



The number of Turkmen are shrinking with each passing day and here you are saying gaining more land LOL. Delusional. Your emotions are blinding you mate.

You really are brain dead if you think attacking a Russian military base will mean Russia won't do anything. Ankara will get showered with missiles from air, ship and submarines.

Turkish military is an ant compared to the Russian military. Turkish artillery to defeat Russia LOL. You Turks are not a very bright bunch are ya. No wonder Turkey has lost nearly every single war with Russia over the centuries.

Syrian army has been retaking land from rebels and ISIS ever since Russian bombing started.

2-3 weeks, that's all I give the Turkmen before they become an extinct. I mean, Turkey has abandoned your people. They've got no chance.

We told you don't mess with mother Russia.

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## T-123456

Beidou2020 said:


> Don't worry about China mate. Chinese are not the ones getting bombed. You should worry about your Turkmen getting bombed and your military being utterly helpless to stop it.


Im not and will never be your mate,*on this forum*,im the *enemy of China* and *i support all of your enemies.*
When im your enemy,*99% of Turks are your enemy,*maybe *you get it* this time*???*
We dont recognize you as a country,take a look at my avatar and see what you are.
See,what you chinese trolls dont get is that *you dont count on the world stage*,just a fact.
Take a look at you ''friends'',Russia(sanctioned by the west,almost broke),Iran(sanctioned and also almost broke),Pakistan(although our ally but not doing well),no serious country is your ally and the dream of money buying everything is a pipedream,dream on.
Your peak is over,from now on your economy is going downwards(look at your stock exchange).
Your super duper weapon systems are just mediocar,and only for countries that cant buy the real stuff(western)
Turkiye buying your FD-2000 was never going to happen,we already were working with Boeing(together with Havelsan Turkiye) since 2005 on an indigenous system,now that its almost ready,we decided to cancel the deal(strange huh?).
Here on this forum,you can get away with anything,only on this forum,you can insult us or accuse us or whatever,but it doesnt mean that you are or will ever be respected by others then your ''allies''(Iranis,Pakistanis).
So,troll,just troll away here,but never try it somewhere else(you wouldnt dare,you need to have balls for that).


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## Beidou2020

T-123456 said:


> Im not and will never be your mate,*on this forum*,im the *enemy of China* and *i support all of your enemies.*
> When im your enemy,*99% of Turks are your enemy,*maybe *you get it* this time*???*
> We dont recognize you as a country,take a look at my avatar and see what you are.
> See,what you chinese trolls dont get is that *you dont count on the world stage*,just a fact.
> Take a look at you ''friends'',Russia(sanctioned by the west,almost broke),Iran(sanctioned and also almost broke),Pakistan(although our ally but not doing well),no serious country is your ally and the dream of money buying everything is a pipedream,dream on.
> Your peak is over,from now on your economy is going downwards(look at your stock exchange).
> Your super duper weapon systems are just mediocar,and only for countries that cant buy the real stuff(western)
> Turkiye buying your FD-2000 was never going to happen,we already were working with Boeing(together with Havelsan Turkiye) since 2005 on an indigenous system,now that its almost ready,we decided to cancel the deal(strange huh?).
> Here on this forum,you can get away with anything,only on this forum,you can insult us or accuse us or whatever,but it doesnt mean that you are or will ever be respected by others then your ''allies''(Iranis,Pakistanis).
> So,troll,just troll away here,but never try it somewhere else(you wouldnt dare,you need to have balls for that).



Getting emotional aren't we? Was it something I said? 

Turkey is being exposed as a gutless country up against mother Russia. 

Getting all emotional against me won't save your Turkmen. Go cry to your dictator and tell him to grow a pair and shoot down the Russian jets bombing the Turkmen.

Come on mate.

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## T-123456

Beidou2020 said:


> Getting emotional aren't we? Was it something I said?
> 
> Turkey is being exposed as a gutless country up against mother Russia.
> 
> Getting all emotional against me won't save your Turkmen. Go cry to your dictator and tell him to grow a pair and shoot down the Russian jets bombing the Turkmen.
> 
> Come on mate.


Again,im not your mate and im the last person on this forum to get emotional,im a realist and a rational person,so forget emotions.
Look at what you are doing,dont be so soft,man up and keep your attitude,dont come with dumb excuses like "go cry to your dictator''.i dont like chickens,looks like you have just become one.
''Crying about Turkmen'' is just something you can use for a couple of days,then what?
Better not qoute me anymore,you are not a worthy enemy,always the same blah blah.


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## Tiqiu

If these Uyghur Turkistan Islamic Party thugs haven't been neutralized by the Russian, I guess China will soon join Russian to finish the job. All the Turks can do is crying to your Sugar Daddy, USA this, USA that.

https://cdn.********.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2015/Nov/27/********-dot-com-8b7_1448675212-B6bGARgCYAA-_DT_1448675345.png.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd39e4a42d2d136b7&ec_rate=230 

https://cdn.********.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2015/Nov/27/********-dot-com-d97_1448670254-CPvbsjUUcAA2z5D_1448674711.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd39e4a42d2d136b7&ec_rate=230 
https://cdn.********.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2015/Nov/27/********-dot-com-23c_1448676683-4675763_1448676738.png.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd39e4a42d2d136b7&ec_rate=230 
https://cdn.********.com/80281E/ll_a_s/2015/Nov/27/********-dot-com-06c_1448676780-4728122_orig_1448676835.png.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bdd39e4a42d2d136b7&ec_rate=230


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## Beidou2020

T-123456 said:


> Again,im not your mate and im the last person on this forum to get emotional,im a realist and a rational person,so forget emotions.
> Look at what you are doing,dont be so soft,man up and keep your attitude,dont come with dumb excuses like "go cry to your dictator''.i dont like chickens,looks like you have just become one.
> ''Crying about Turkmen'' is just something you can use for a couple of days,then what?
> Better not qoute me anymore,you are not a worthy enemy,always the same blah blah.



Mate, Russia is ending Turkey's pipe dreams in Syria. Don't get mad at me. 

What is Turkey going to do now?

Russia is bombing your weapons and oil trucks crossing the border AND killing off the Turkmen.

What's the strategy of Turkey now? How are you going to stop Russia and protect your people?



Tiqiu said:


> If these Uyghur Turkistan Islamic Party thugs haven't been neutralized by the Russian, I guess China will soon join Russian to finish the job. All the Turks can do is crying to your Sugar Daddy, USA this, USA that.



China should ban all business with Turkey and list major Turkish companies as sponsoring terrorism.

Any foreign company that does business with those banned Turkish companies will also be banned from the massive Chinese market. Watch those foreign companies cut ties with Turkey to preserve the access to the vast Chinese market.

Squeeze them economically. 

At the same time, supply weapons to Kurds and Syrian army.

Russia will continue to exterminate those Turkmen terrorists and cut off supplies lines of weapons and oil trade. Syrian army will take control of those areas after Russia has cleaned up the area.

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## type93

Beidou2020 said:


> Mate, Russia is ending Turkey's pipe dreams in Syria. Don't get mad at me.
> 
> What is Turkey going to do now?
> 
> Russia is bombing your weapons and oil trucks crossing the border AND killing off the Turkmen.
> 
> What's the strategy of Turkey now? How are you going to stop Russia and protect your people?


the turk can go to their gay bahcesi thread and complain about it

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## Providence

Azeri440 said:


> .
> 
> 
> Lol , how would Russian base in Syria wipe out Turkish Air Force?
> 
> even if let's say in your wild imagination they take down 10 Turkish fighters , Turkey can easily bomb the entire base out of existence with simple T-155 Firtina
> 
> Lol Russian tourists don't run the Turkish economy , Russians make up 3 mil out of 40+ million visitors in Turkey
> Russian tourism companies that profited from getting cheap deals for their people are the ones that will be suffering
> Turkey will barely feel the impact.
> 
> Russian "economic sanctions" are a joke , they list of sanctions includes f*cking tomatoes.
> 
> at the end of the day Russian exports a lot more to Turkey than Turkey does to Russia , so your saying of Turkish economy suffering does not make sense when you look at the numbers
> 
> Turkey has a $20 bil deal for Nuclear Plants with Russia , now that contract will go to someone else
> Turkey wanted to build a gas pipeline to Turkey , to further export it's gas to Europe, that dream also died
> now Turkey is focusing on TANAP and TAP and is working with Azerbaijan to even speed up the project.
> 
> at the end of the day Turkey took down a Russian plane and Russia has been the one with all talk
> 
> 
> oh and Russian economy is already suffering with European sanctions.



I must warn you here .. EVERY SINGLE CHINESE member here except the title holders are brain dead idiots ! 

Don't indulge with them.

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## SecularNationalist

DontShootMeBro said:


> Russia is using ISIS as a pretext to bomb Sunni Syrians and Turkmens within Syria.


ISIS is american and saudi creation.Russia is doing this world a great favor by cleaning that mess.Come on man we all hate daesh so support russia.

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## Tiqiu

Only idiots are calling every of other people idiots.
I can't help but indulge myself by thinking for peabrain like you. Will U.S. still be existing when the population of black and amegos becomes majority?

Yesterday Erdogan again asked to meet Putin at Paris and said he felt sad about the incident.
今日热门视频汇总2015.11.29_新浪新闻视频_新浪网

Man up Erdogan,dont back flip like your sugar daddy O8

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## PatriotLover

SecularNationalist said:


> ISIS is american and saudi creation.Russia is doing this world a great favor by cleaning that mess.Come on man we all hate daesh so support russia.



Why are you falling for false information being spread on this forum by few members? Russia is not bombing ISIS much. Russia is bombing anti Asad forces! Mainly Sunni groups who are against dictatorial Asad, who was a minority in his country opressing the majority.

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## type93

Tiqiu said:


> Only idiots are calling every of other people idiots.
> I can't help but indulge myself by thinking for peabrain like you. Will U.S. still be existing when the population of black and amegos becomes majority?
> 
> Yesterday Erdogan again asked to meet Putin at Paris and said he felt sad about the incident.
> 今日热门视频汇总2015.11.29_新浪新闻视频_新浪网
> 
> Man up Erdogan,dont back flip like your sugar daddy O8


Erdogan is the only side trying to reach out as turkey is the guilty party

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## damm1t

Tiqiu said:


> Only idiots are calling every of other people idiots.
> I can't help but indulge myself by thinking for peabrain like you. Will U.S. still be existing when the population of black and amegos becomes majority?
> 
> Yesterday Erdogan again asked to meet Putin at Paris and said he felt sad about the incident.
> 今日热门视频汇总2015.11.29_新浪新闻视频_新浪网
> 
> Man up Erdogan,dont back flip like your sugar daddy O8



Real men resolve issues face to face, Putin becoming pussy like abandoned girlfriend... Erdoğan will never apologize, probably he will warn Putin over Turkmen issue if Putin shouldn't keep running to face Erdoğan.


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## pher

This is russian way of saying hello to turk's kin turkmans, halariou!!!

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## type93

pher said:


> This is russian way of saying hellow to turk's kin turkmans, halariou!!!
> 
> 
> View attachment 275694
> 
> 
> View attachment 275696


Like a Christmas tree from hell

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## PatriotLover

Tiqiu said:


> Only idiots are calling every of other people idiots.
> I can't help but indulge myself by thinking for peabrain like you. Will U.S. still be existing when the population of black and amegos becomes majority?
> 
> Yesterday Erdogan again asked to meet Putin at Paris and said he felt sad about the incident.
> 今日热门视频汇总2015.11.29_新浪新闻视频_新浪网
> 
> Man up Erdogan,dont back flip like your sugar daddy O8




Lol, Syrian army is already complaining that Turkey is firing at them. Dont worry, have patience. Turkey has already put Russia in its place.

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## pher

type93 said:


> Like a Christmas tree from hell


no, it should be from heaven, and the destination is hell.



PatriotLover said:


> Lol, Syrian army is already complaining that Turkey is firing at them. Dont worry, have patience. Turkey has already put Russia in its place.


Dn't worry, Syrian army just get a lot of arms and logistics from China, they will fight back toward turkey soon. our supply will be limitless.

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## damm1t

pher said:


> This is russian way of saying hellow to turk's kin turkmans, halariou!!!
> View attachment 275694



Phosphoring the civillians ? That's a war crime.. But what do you expect from inhumans and their inhuman dog eater supporters..



pher said:


> Dn't worry, Syrian army just get a lot of arms and logistics from China, they will fight back toward turkey soon. our supply will be limitless.


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## type93

damm1t said:


> Phosphoring the civillians ? That's a war crime.. But what do you expect from inhumans and their inhuman dog eater supporters..


So is firing at a parachuting pilot. You point is moot

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## Beidou2020

PatriotLover said:


> Lol, Syrian army is already complaining that Turkey is firing at them. Dont worry, have patience. Turkey has already put Russia in its place.



Russia has exterminated the entire Turkmen race which has smuggled weapons to ISIS from Turkey.

Russia has destroyed all weapons and oil trucks crossing the border.

Syrian army has retaken many areas from terrorists control.

Be patient, this war is about to end. Assad will stay in power and Russian influence in Syria will increase to make sure terrorists are kept out.

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## Tiqiu

Don't worry my iron brother, we Chinese are full of patience and strategy. If you notice the pace with with China is building its military capability then you should know that China is well preparing for the next fight, with aim to only one country you know who.

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## Beidou2020

type93 said:


> So is firing at a parachuting pilot. You point is moot



No need to justify to terrorist sympathisers.

Let Russia exterminate both Turkmen terrorists and ISIS terrorists. 

Russia has now bombed the rebel and terrorist strongholds and the supply lines of oil and weapons have been cut. The terrorists are now only surviving with the resources they currently have. Turkey knows their pipe dream is about to end and their desperation is showing.

In 2-3 weeks, this war will be over and a victory for Assad.

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## xenon54 out

Man those Chinese here nuking left and right as if the had something to compensate , hopefully their country is not full of those exsamples.

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## PatriotLover

Beidou2020 said:


> Russia has exterminated the entire Turkmen race which has smuggled weapons to ISIS from Turkey.
> 
> Russia has destroyed all weapons and oil trucks crossing the border.
> 
> Syrian army has retaken many areas from terrorists control.
> 
> Be patient, this war is about to end. Assad will stay in power and Russian influence in Syria will increase to make sure terrorists are kept out.



Look no one wants ISIS. But Turkey has the right to protect its people who are being bombed by Russia, and even these people are fighting ISIS. But Russia attacks them because they also fight Asad. 

Chinese on our forum should stop abusing Turkish peope. They are people with honor. And they can easily fight Russia. They destroy Russian plane. Russia can do NOTHING AGAINST TURKEY! All they do is attack civilians in revenge. Weak.


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## Beidou2020

xenon54 said:


> Man those Chinese here nuking left and right as if the had something to compensate , hopefully their country is not full of those exsamples.



Don't worry, 1.4 billion Chinese are starting to realise that Turkey is the enemy.

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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> Don't worry, 1.4 billion Chinese are starting to realise that Turkey is the enemy.


Like we give a shit...

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## Hyperion

Don't confuse your Pakistaniat with that little Wahabi keera on rampage in your head. There is no such thing as Sunni, Shia etc etc, just Pakistan and Pakistani's. If you are worried about Sunni's dying on Mars, you should join Force-Ummah-Extreme, and the way to joining it does not lie in Islamabad.

On topic: Start using your brains and think why would Russia hate one Muslim sect over the other? They are just out there looking for their own national interests. It would be great if you start doing the same. Read "national interests", not "ummah interests".



PatriotLover said:


> Why are you falling for false information being spread on this forum by few members? Russia is not bombing ISIS much. Russia is bombing anti Asad forces! Mainly Sunni groups who are against dictatorial Asad, who was a minority in his country opressing the majority.


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## Beidou2020

PatriotLover said:


> Look no one wants ISIS. But Turkey has the right to protect its people who are being bombed by Russia, and even these people are fighting ISIS. But Russia attacks them because they also fight Asad.
> 
> Chinese on our forum should stop abusing Turkish peope. They are people with honor. And they can easily fight Russia. They destroy Russian plane. Russia can do NOTHING AGAINST TURKEY! All they do is attack civilians in revenge. Weak.



Turkey sneak attacked a Russian bomber taking out Turkmen and ran away to hide behind NATO's skirt.

Russia said next attack on Russian jets will get a retaliation. Turkey hasn't touched mother Russia since.

Can't do any more sneak attacks, so Turkey can only helplessly watch Russia exterminate the Turkmens and guarantee victory for Assad.

Turkey should stop supporting Uighur terrorists that kills Chinese.



xenon54 said:


> Like we give a shit...



LOL you're the one that hoped China is not full of anti-Turkish people.

I said 1.4 billion Chinese are starting to become anti-Turkish due to Uighur terrorism support by Turkey.

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## Azeri440

Beidou2020 said:


> No need to justify to terrorist sympathisers.
> 
> Let Russia exterminate both Turkmen terrorists and ISIS terrorists.
> 
> Russia has now bombed the rebel and terrorist strongholds and the supply lines of oil and weapons have been cut. The terrorists are now only surviving with the resources they currently have. Turkey knows their pipe dream is about to end and their desperation is showing.
> 
> In 2-3 weeks, this war will be over and a victory for Assad.



Lol ok , let's come back to this thread in 3 weeks and look at the "victory" , deal?

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## Tiqiu

Beidou2020 said:


> Don't worry, 1.4 billion Chinese are starting to realise that Turkey is the enemy.



The most China can take away from this incident is that Turkey was fully exposed in front of every Chinese eye as the supporter of the Uyghur Turkistan Islamic Party fighters, who smuggled using Turkey passports form China via countries like Thailand. When comes to Uyghur terrorist issue, all Chinese are backing the government, and no country can stand in the way.

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## Beidou2020

Azeri440 said:


> Lol ok , let's come back to this thread in 3 weeks and look at the "victory" , deal?



I don't do deals with terrorists or terrorist sympathisers

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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> LOL you're the one that hoped China is not full of anti-Turkish people.


I hoped what? Nonono, you got me wrong i hoped China is not full of retards like you otherwise i dont give a shit about what you guys think. 



Beidou2020 said:


> I said 1.4 billion Chinese are starting to become anti-Turkish due to Uighur terrorism support by Turkey.


Listen chap, your premature rants sound like a barking dog... a retarded barking dog...

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## Azeri440

xenon54 said:


> I hoped what? Nonono, you got me wrong i hoped China is not full of retards like you otherwise i dont give a shit about what you guys think.



he probably doesn't even live in China , most of these western bashing morons also live in the west.

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## Beidou2020

Azeri440 said:


> he probably doesn't even live in China , most of these western bashing morons also live in the west.



Most of the terrorists and terrorist sympathisers live in the Middle East.

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## TurAr

Russia and Chinese members in a nutshell:









Beidou2020 said:


> Turkey sneak attacked a Russian bomber taking out Turkmen and ran away to hide behind NATO's skirt.
> 
> Russia said next attack on Russian jets will get a retaliation. *Turkey hasn't touched mother Russia since.*
> 
> Can't do any more sneak attacks, so Turkey can only helplessly watch Russia exterminate the Turkmens and guarantee victory for Assad.
> 
> Turkey should stop supporting Uighur terrorists that kills Chinese.




Why would Turkey touch anyone without provokation? If your mother violates the border, she will be manhandled in front of the whole World once again. And the best part is she won't be able to do a sht other than detaining random Turkish students and businessman in Russia as a "revenge". lol how pathetic is that? Is Russia really that uncapable and pathetic that it can't even properly react to an "unprovoked sneak attack" from another nation?

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## Azeri440

Beidou2020 said:


> Most of the terrorists and terrorist sympathisers live in the Middle East.


and?


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## xenon54 out

Azeri440 said:


> he probably doesn't even live in China , most of these western bashing morons also live in the west.


Not gonna assume all Chinese are like that, its a big country after all but there are enough of his sort in PDF and they are doing a very bad job in representing their nation
Who do they think they are impressing with their cheap rhetoric? Only impressing thing is the amount of stupidity in their posts.

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## Beidou2020

TurAr said:


> Russia and Chinese members in a nutshell:



Looks like Turks and ISIS 




TurAr said:


> Why would Turkey touch anyone without provokation? If your mother violates the border, she will be manhandled in front of the whole World once again. And the best part is she won't be able to do a sht other than detaining random Turkish students and businessman in Russia as a "revenge". lol how pathetic is that? Is Russia really that uncapable and pathetic that it can't even properly react to an "unprovoked sneak attack" from another nation?



Exterminating an entire race of Turkmen is sufficient punishment for the death of 1 Russian. Ensuring victory for Assad is the cherry on top.

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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> Looks like Turks and ISIS


This woman looks more Chinese than Turk. 



Beidou2020 said:


> Exterminating an entire race of Turkmen is sufficient punishment for the death of 1 Russian. Ensuring victory for Assad is the cherry on top.


Killing defenseless people as ''revenge'', wow what a superpower.

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## DontShootMeBro

PatriotLover said:


> Why are you falling for false information being spread on this forum by few members? Russia is not bombing ISIS much. Russia is bombing anti Asad forces! Mainly Sunni groups who are against dictatorial Asad, who was a minority in his country opressing the majority.


It is a breath of fresh air to see at least one Pakistani bro who uses some common sense and sees the realities within Syria for exactly what they are.

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## Beidou2020

xenon54 said:


> This woman looks more Chinese than Turk.
> 
> 
> Killing defenseless people as ''revenge'', wow what a superpower.



Turkey, being a superpower, must do something to protect your people.
Why aren't you?


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## Azeri440

xenon54 said:


> Not gonna assume all Chinese are like that, its a big country after all but there are enough of his sort in PDF and they are doing a very bad job in representing their nation
> Who do they think they are impressing with their cheap rhetoric? Only impressing thing is the amount of stupidity in their posts.



there are good Chinese posters but these ones just spam the topics with their stupidity

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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> Turkey, being a superpower, must do something to protect your people.
> Why aren't you?


We do, by shooting down bombers crossing our border, even if its from a suped duper power aka big bear Russia.



Azeri440 said:


> there are good Chinese posters but these ones just spam the topics with their stupidity


Yes there are but too less, their voice goes down among the 50 cent army.

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## TopCat

Turkey is cornered after bears roar..


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## Beidou2020

xenon54 said:


> We do, by shooting down bombers crossing our border, even if its from a suped duper power aka big bear Russia.
> 
> 
> Yes there are but too less, their voice goes down among the 50 cent army.



But I'm still waiting for Turkey to protect its own people from getting wiped out by shooting down more Russian bombers.

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## TopCat

xenon54 said:


> We do, by shooting down bombers crossing our border, even if its from a suped duper power aka big bear Russia.
> .


That's just shows how a kid Turkey turned into under US and West hegemony... 



Beidou2020 said:


> But I'm still waiting for Turkey to protect its own people from getting wiped out by shooting down more Russian bombers.



Edrogan already bent over.. No more shooting down I suppose.

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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> But I'm still waiting for Turkey to protect its own people from getting wiped out by shooting down more Russian bombers.


Your waiting will have an end when they cross the border again.



iajdani said:


> That's just shows how a kid Turkey turned to under US and West hegemony...
> 
> 
> 
> Edrogan already bent over.. No more shooting down I suppose.


Maybe we should take an exsample of the grown up fully developed Bangladesh?


----------



## Beidou2020

iajdani said:


> That's just shows how a kid Turkey turned under US and West hegemony...
> 
> 
> 
> Edrogan already bent over.. No more shooting down I suppose.



Really disappointing by Turkey. Erdogan already begging like a dog for meetings with Putin.

Turkey is showing its cowardly nature by being to scared to protect the Turkmen.

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## DontShootMeBro

iajdani said:


> That's just shows how a kid Turkey turned to under US and West hegemony...
> 
> 
> 
> Edrogan already bent over.. No more shooting down I suppose.


This is rich coming from some one from an extremely developed and advanced country on all fronts such as Bangladesh


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## Beidou2020

xenon54 said:


> Your waiting will have an end when they cross the border again.
> 
> 
> Maybe we should take an exsample of the grown up fully developed Bangladesh?



So you're gonna let your Turkmen just die with no punishment for Russia? WOW.

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## DontShootMeBro

Beidou2020 said:


> Really disappointing by Turkey. Erdogan already begging like a dog for meetings with Putin.
> 
> Turkey is showing its cowardly nature by being to scared to protect the Turkmen.


This is really getting out of hand. Your rhetoric is becoming an annoying repetitive verbal diarrhea

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## PatriotLover

TO TURKISH MEMBERS:

I have seen reports and tweets that Turkish army us moving everything from Western borders to Syrian borders, also there is report that Turkish army may enter Syria to protect people. Is there any such indication in Turkish TV or news?


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## TopCat

DontShootMeBro said:


> This is rich coming from some one from an extremely developed and advanced country on all fronts such as Bangladesh



Sorry Bangladesh is not rich nor developed and never will try to shoot down an American or Russian planes. We dont want to be like a joke what you yourself became.

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## xenon54 out

Beidou2020 said:


> So you're gonna let your Turkmen just die with no punishment for Russia? WOW.


Dont expect chest thumping from me, thats for people like you who need to compensate.

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## TurAr

iajdani said:


> Sorry Bangladesh is not rich nor developed and never will try to shoot down an American or Russian planes. We dont want to be like a joke what you yourself became.



Is being rich and developed and able to protect your borders from violators considered as a joke in Bangladesh? No wonder why it is a hopeless shthole where people chase and kill each other with machetes in mud covered streets over their religions.

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## xenon54 out

PatriotLover said:


> TO TURKISH MEMBERS:
> 
> I have seen reports and tweets that Turkish army us moving everything from Western borders to Syrian borders, also there is report that Turkish army may enter Syria to protect people. Is there any such indication in Turkish TV or news?


*Report says Turkey’s anti-DAESH military planning under way*
*trtworld-nid-11002-fid-37159.jpg*





AA
Photo by
Members of Syrian opposition group linked to Damascus Front (Shamiyya Front) launch attacks against Daesh terrorists in Herbal village, north of Aleppo, Syria on October 30, 2015.

Turkish media reports claim Turkey will launch ground force operation in mid-December against DAESH strongholds in northern Syria under closer coordination with US-led coalition forces
Nov 12, 2015 15:32 GMT
Turkish media reports have claimed that Turkey will launch an extensive ground operation against DAESH strongholds in northern Syria in mid-December, under close coordination with the US-led coalition forces in order to establish a “refugee zone” in the region. 

Media accounts have said Turkey’s move has particularly been driven by recent DAESH pressure on Marea which is just 20 kilometres (12 miles) away from Turkey’s southern border across its Kilis province.

Syrian Observatory for Human Rights stated in late August that DAESH had taken over several villages including Harjalah in the area between Marea and Azez and “encircled” the opposition-held district of Marea, citing a DAESH announcement.

DAESH is already controlling a zone from Jarablus to Marea along the Turkish border. The group reportedly continued attacking the area between Azaz and Mare, situated in northwestern Syria - controlled by other opposition groups.






The Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga forces have launched an operation to liberate the northern Iraqi town of Sinjar from DAESH terrorists with the support of air strikes carried out by the US-led coalition on Thursday.

The Peshmerga successfully took control of a strategic road that connects Sinjar with Raqqa, DAESH's proclaimed capital in Syria, according to the head of Foreign Relations Hemin Hawrami, at the Kurdistan Democratic Party, led by Kurdistan Regional Government President Massoud Barzani.

Ankara takes into account that DAESH groups - are under pressure in northern Syria from Kurdish YPG militias of the PYD - have currently been pushed by the Peshmerga forces in northern Iraq, reinforced by US-led coalition air strikes, could be stuck in an area around Jarablus.

Therefore, Turkey has been planning to move into this territory with a 10,700-strong military force, including its special forces at a depth of 46 kilometres to secure a “refugee zone” for civilians in the areas between Azaz and Jarablus by clearing DAESH from the region, the reports claimed.

The mentioned military units will stand by at seven different regions in the Kilis province along its Syria border expecting the “go” order, the reports added.

However, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said that "A ground force is something which we have to talk [about] together," in an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Nov. 9, signaling that Turkey will coordinate its ground operation against DAESH with the allies.

"There's a need of an integrated strategy including air campaign and ground troops. But Turkey alone cannot take all this burden. If there is a coalition and a very well designed integrated strategy, Turkey is ready to take part in all senses," he emphasised. 

Turkish warplanes hit in late October the DAESH targets which are located in an area around the Harjalah village between Marea and Azez where Turkey and US-led coalition forces have long argued that they are aiming to establish an “ISIS [DAESH]-free zone” following the Incirlik deal between the allies.

Turkey reached a comprehensive agreement with the US government on July 23 to allow its Incirlik Air Base to be used by the US-led coalition forces for air strikes against DAESH, to execute a joint action plan for northern Syrian issues.


Now Turkey, which is hosting the 10th G20 Leaders’ Summit this weekend, will share its “refugee zone” plan with world leaders, aiming to address the growing refugee crisis, according to the media reports.

The proposed refugee zone in northwestern Syria will take over five million refugees for at least ten years, having six grand refugee camps, 11 logistics bases, and 17 safety terminals, according to the Turkish plan.

The country will reportedly seek political and economic support of countries participating in the upcoming G20 summit for the plan.

Syrian refugees escaping the violence in their country fled Syria in large numbers following the escalation of the Syrian Civil War in 2012. One of their most preferred destinations was neighbouring Turkey, which hosts the most Syrian refugees in the world according to registration records of the United Nations.

Turkey is also a transit point for refugees aiming to reach European countries from Syria because of its geography bridging the Middle East and Europe.

Turkey has spent more than $8 billion of its own resources on the refugees whose number in the country has exceeded 2.2 million people.

Source:
TRTWorld and agencies


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## Tiqiu

Don't know other countries but in Australia, Most turk-born immigrants are dole bludgers, who don't ,mostly can't find jobs and are relying on social security payments. Most of them live in the Sydney suburb of Auburn, search the house price of this suburb then you know who are the stupid ones.

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## Mirzah

Erdogan vs Putin 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1087823477915993

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## TopCat

TurAr said:


> Is being rich and developed and able to protect your borders from violators considered as a joke in Bangladesh? No wonder why it is a hopeless shthole where people chase and kill each other with machetes in mud covered streets over their religions.



Border violation is a routine thing between neighbor. Even arch enemy like India/Pakistan, or USA/Russia tolerates each other. You had shot down a plane which in extreme case could entered your border for mere 10 seconds. By the law of physics a pilot could not make his mind, lock the radar and shoot the plane in 10 seconds. You either fired the missile before it entered your border or after it left. It is obvious that the the shooting down is premeditated and an ambush.

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## Kesang

Feel bad for pilot but I am pretty sure that he also killed tens of turkman civilians while targeting rebels. I can understand why did Turkey shot it down but it would be better if they just escort the sukhoi out from her airspace.


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## Nadezhda

Russian President Vladimir Putin called Expired HAS sanctions contre for Turkey, Including a Ban On Some goods and Prohibiting extensions of labor contracts for Turks working in Russia.

The mandate published on the Kremlin's website Saturday Follows the downing of Turkey this week by a Russian warplane.

This order comes shortly after-également Turkey's president Told That supporters he was "truly Saddened" Wished and the incident HAD not occured

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## Paksanity

[copied from my post in another thread]

Demanding an apology from Turkey is turning international law upside down. Let us first determine the legitimacy of Turkish actions. It all boils down to two things.

1. Did Russian aircraft violate Turkish airspace?
2. If they did, does international law allow shooting down of such aircraft?

First one can be resolved by bringing up evidence from both side. There will be number of parties observing this area so I'm sure there is no shortage of evidence. Any third party like ICJ can review such evidence. From what is available on Internet, it seems they did violate airspace and it was not the first time they did. Any dispute can be taken to international foras like UN or international court of justice. Apparently Russia is not keen on that for obvious reasons.

As far the second question, well yes, an aircraft can be shot down on violation of airspace after due warning. Will it be shot down is a different matter and involves number of factors like diplomatic fall outs, political fall outs, strength of nations and all that stuff. What however remains clear is that Turkey has the legitimate right to use lethal force against violating aircraft. How much violation is a violation? Any amount of violation is a violation and extends the same right. Airspace has the same sanctity as that of land and territorial waters and gives the same rights as that of violation of sovereignty.

Few Pakistani members have taken a weird line on this matter. We more than other nations should be well aware as to how this game of intimidation and coercion works. How narrative is built against a an entire nation branding it a terrorist supporter. How powerful neighbours want you to submit and tow their line. When some Pakistani disagrees with Turkish actions, he should well be ready to accept violation of Pakistani airspace from larger neighbours and even stronger foreign players. If we do not accept Turkish rights to raise concerns on Turkmen massacre at the hands of a brutal government and its foreign allies, we also loose the right to object to Kashmiri's killed at the hands of Indian troops. If it is fine for you support actions of Bashar al Asad then please support killing of Muslims in Gujrat at the hands of Modi as well. Support violation of Pakistan airspace by IAF and US. Also accept that Afghan and Russian aircraft that we shot down in 80s actually were victim of our aggression no matter they were violating our airspace. And if tomorrow India lands its forces in Afghanistan and starts bombing the crap out of Pashtun civillians calling them ISIS and then moving onto FATA, bomb our territory by just calling them terrorists and US a supporter of terrorism then we should, well cheer them, right? And on that day Turkish will watch and remain silent rather cheer Indian strikes on Kashmiris and FATA and I will ask you how you feel!

Nobody is asking you to send troops or something but by now we should have enough wisdom to know how media and diplomats launch an assault on a country and malign its image worldwide. Pakistanis more than anyone else should be able to understand how a Web is being built around Turkey, which somehow chose to rise from economic downfall and started to become more assertive. It's not about Erdogan or a party. It's about a nation who has just, very slightly shown signs of not taking dictation. It's them today, it might very well be us tomorrow. Think before making in opinion. How would we react if India starts violating our airspace in AJK on same pretext? Now let's replace India with Israel. Suppose Israeli F-15s are deployed in India and they are bombing the hell out of Kashmiris and our Kashmiris are watching the massacre just across the LOC. Now two Israeli jets cross into Pakistan while bombing. What would be your reaction? Replace us with Turkey now and I would say they have shown restraint!

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## Azeri440

iajdani said:


> Border violation is a routine thing between neighbor. Even arch enemy like India/Pakistan, or USA/Russia tolerates each other. You had shot down a plane which in extreme case could entered your border for mere 10 seconds. By the law of physics a pilot could not make his mind, lock the radar and shoot the plane in 10 seconds. You either fired the missile before it entered your border or after it left. It is obvious that the the shooting down is premeditated and an ambush.



or you know , track it and when it reached the border , fire the missile

how simple minded can you be



iajdani said:


> Sorry Bangladesh is not rich nor developed and never will try to shoot down an American or Russian planes. We dont want to be like a joke what you yourself became.



LOL , does Bangladesh even have an air force


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## PatriotLover

Paksanity said:


> Few Pakistani members have taken a weird line on this matter. We more than other nations should be well aware as to how this game of intimidation and coercion works. How narrative is built against a an entire nation branding it a terrorist supporter. How powerful neighbours want you to submit and tow their line. When some Pakistani disagrees with Turkish actions, he should well be ready to accept violation of Pakistani airspace from larger neighbours and even stronger foreign players. If we do not accept Turkish rights to raise concerns on Turkmen massacre at the hands of a brutal government and its foreign allies, we also loose the right to object to Kashmiri's killed at the hands of Indian troops. If it is fine for you support actions of Bashar al Asad then please support killing of Muslims in Gujrat at the hands of Modi as well. Support violation of Pakistan airspace by IAF and US. Also accept that Afghan and Russian aircraft that we shot down in 80s actually were victim of our aggression no matter they were violating our airspace. And if tomorrow India lands its forces in Afghanistan and starts bombing the crap out of Pashtun civillians calling them ISIS and then moving onto FATA, bomb our territory by just calling them terrorists and US a supporter of terrorism then we should, well cheer them, right? And on that day Turkish will watch and remain silent rather cheer Indian strikes on Kashmiris and FATA and I will ask you how you feel!
> 
> Nobody is asking you to send troops or something but by now we should have enough wisdom to know how media and diplomats launch an assault on a country and malign its image worldwide. Pakistanis more than anyone else should be able to understand how a Web is being built around Turkey, which somehow chose to rise from economic downfall and started to become more assertive. It's not about Erdogan or a party. It's about a nation who has just, very slightly shown signs of not taking dictation. It's them today, it might very well be us tomorrow. Think before making in opinion. How would we react if India starts violating our airspace in AJK on same pretext? Now let's replace India with Israel. Suppose Israeli F-15s are deployed in India and they are bombing the hell out of Kashmiris and our Kashmiris are watching the massacre just across the LOC. Now two Israeli jets cross into Pakistan while bombing. What would be your reaction? Replace us with Turkey now and I would say they have shown restraint!



Very well said. I find it very surprising that fellow Pakistanis are supporting Russia. And in the false beleif that Russia is mostly hitting ISIS which is not true.

I think it may be because of Chinese influence we are being forced to support Russia and against fellow muslims. It has happened in the past, I hope it does not repeat, if needed we must stand independant and support who we wish and not be influenced.

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## TopCat

Azeri440 said:


> or you know , track it and when it reached the border , fire the missile
> 
> how simple minded can you be



Ambush??



> LOL , does Bangladesh even have an air force


Why? You want to ambush our fighter too?



PatriotLover said:


> Very well said. I find it very surprising that fellow Pakistanis are supporting Russia. And in the false beleif that Russia is mostly hitting ISIS which is not true.
> 
> I think it may be because of Chinese influence we are being forced to support Russia and against fellow muslims. It has happened in the past, I hope it does not repeat, if needed we must stand independant and support who we wish and not be influenced.



The reason most people support Russia is because of USA hegemony in the region. Turkey is just a pawn.

Israel is the one who is disappointed most which proves that what Russia is doing is the best for the region.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

As mafia state Russia police arbitrarily arrest Turkish bussinesmen and put them into jail, raid on dormitories and takes Turkish students into custody and dont protect our embassy againist fanatic attacks in Moscow, 
No a single Russian citizen hurted or harassed in Turkey..Russians have properties in Turkey didnt sell a single house till now....
Now Russian tour agencies seeking to alternate the ways of sending tourists to Turkey through Kazakhistan, Azarbaijan and Belarus agencies...other Most of Russian Business companies will apply the same methods as well....


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## Azeri440

iajdani said:


> Ambush??



Ambush? are you really this messed up in the head? 

even the Airline pilot from Lebanon confirmed Turkey gave 10 warnings to the aircraft with no response 
but yes "ambush"


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## Nadezhda

Pokoysya s mirom!


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## TopCat

Azeri440 said:


> Ambush? are you really this messed up in the head?
> 
> even the Airline pilot from Lebanon confirmed Turkey gave 10 warnings to the aircraft with no response
> but yes "ambush"
> 
> 
> View attachment 275745



I heard you were warning it while it is 58 KM inside Syrian airspace.. WHY?


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## Azeri440

iajdani said:


> I heard you were warning it while it is 58 KM inside Syrian airspace.. WHY?



it's called standard precaution in accordance with NATO , 58 km is a small distance for an aircraft 
anyway, the warnings debunk your claim on ambush

Turkey did everything with accordance to international regulations, and all the information provided by Turkey was confirmed by NATO and civilian witnesses. 

any other questions?

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## TopCat

Azeri440 said:


> it's called standard precaution in accordance with NATO , 58 km is a small distance for an aircraft
> anyway, the warnings debunk your claim on ambush
> 
> Turkey did everything with accordance to international regulations, and all the information provided by Turkey was confirmed by NATO and civilian witnesses.
> 
> any other questions?



hahahahah....

It is the standard precaution if a fighter approaches from international airspace to NATO air space, not bugging your neighbor who are within their own airspace. You guys should start sending your officers to school again.

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## Azeri440

iajdani said:


> hahahahah....
> 
> It is the standard precaution if a fighter approaches from international airspace to NATO air space, not bugging your neighbor who are within their own airspace. You guys should start sending your officers to school again.



do you even know anything about air traffic control? they don't wait until last minute to make contact with a plane even if the aircraft is within it's own borders

I already said 58kms is a very small distance for an aircraft , if the aircraft is heading directly towards your border , you establish contact and warn the aircraft.


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## TopCat

Azeri440 said:


> do you even know anything about air traffic control? they don't wait until last minute to make contact with a plane even if the aircraft is within it's own borders
> 
> I already said 58kms is a very small distance for an aircraft ,* if the aircraft is heading directly towards your border* , you establish contact and warn the aircraft.



Its Syrian airspace.. and their aircraft will patrol their border and to do that they have to head towards Turkish border... You think they should head towards the center of earth?

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## United

BREAKING: Erdogan warns Russia "To not play with fire"

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## damm1t

iajdani said:


> Its Syrian airspace.. and their aircraft will patrol their border and to do that they have to head towards Turkish border... You think they should head towards the center of earth?



Yep they can fly there but it shouldn't enter to our airspace after 10 warnings... Thats stupid..


----------



## United



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## Madali

damm1t said:


> Damn.. now some russian ( or chinese, indian, iranian ) will come to threat us with nukes.. they are the "real men" with nukes after all...



We don't threaten anyone with nukes, because we don't have nukes.

Plus, even if we did have nukes and if we did nuke Turkey, where the hell will all our Iranians go for vacation??


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## damm1t

Madali said:


> We don't threaten anyone with nukes, because we don't have nukes.



No dude some people love to do that with russians' nukes... What they say is like going to bed with someone else's d*ck.



Madali said:


> Plus, even if we did have nukes and if we did nuke Turkey, where the hell will all our Iranians go for vacation??



Don't worry you couldn't even if you had..

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## Madali

damm1t said:


> No dude some people love to do that with russians' nukes... What they say is like going to bed with someone else's d*ck.
> 
> Don't worry you couldn't even if you had..



We wouldn't want to. We have no military conflicts with Turkey. There is a lot of political disagreements, but trade & tourism between our countries is good. No Iranian official has ever, even indirectly, talked about picking a fight with Turkey.


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## cabatli_53

Brothers, Let some Chinese and Russian kids talk whatever they want. Russian incapable forces in Syria can't do anything against Turkey militarily except bombing civilians as a response so The keyboard warriors need to discharge their hatred in such platforms. Actually, they also know that They can only nuke their own holes If the subject is a country like Turkiye.

If you pay attention to Russian pilot speeches saved from Turkish strike, He said He is not even aware of radar tracking, radio regulations Turkey applied and missile strike warnings. Their positioning system are also generating false positions. Can you imagine the level of those Ruski forces capabilities against Turkish Forces ? In bombing footages Russian Forces revealed, It is clear that They can't hit ground target preciously. They strike 3-4 times to same target for perfect destruction.











Such an incapable forces in Syria can never pose a serious threat to any NATO forces If you compare their training+fighters capabilities one by one with NATO's fully upgraded systems. If you consider heavy trained TurAF pilots carrying out thousands times of precious strike to Syria+Iraq with %100 success rates, Russian activities in Syria seems a joke to us !

Turkey's Firtina howitzers thanks to Aselsan developed FCS are able to deliver the shells more precision than Russian aircrafts dropping guided bombs !

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## Madali

xenon54 said:


> *Report says Turkey’s anti-DAESH military planning under way*
> *trtworld-nid-11002-fid-37159.jpg*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AA
> Photo by
> Members of Syrian opposition group linked to Damascus Front (Shamiyya Front) launch attacks against Daesh terrorists in Herbal village, north of Aleppo, Syria on October 30, 2015.
> 
> Turkish media reports claim Turkey will launch ground force operation in mid-December against DAESH strongholds in northern Syria under closer coordination with US-led coalition forces
> Nov 12, 2015 15:32 GMT
> Turkish media reports have claimed that Turkey will launch an extensive ground operation against DAESH strongholds in northern Syria in mid-December, under close coordination with the US-led coalition forces in order to establish a “refugee zone” in the region.
> 
> Media accounts have said Turkey’s move has particularly been driven by recent DAESH pressure on Marea which is just 20 kilometres (12 miles) away from Turkey’s southern border across its Kilis province.
> 
> Syrian Observatory for Human Rights stated in late August that DAESH had taken over several villages including Harjalah in the area between Marea and Azez and “encircled” the opposition-held district of Marea, citing a DAESH announcement.
> 
> DAESH is already controlling a zone from Jarablus to Marea along the Turkish border. The group reportedly continued attacking the area between Azaz and Mare, situated in northwestern Syria - controlled by other opposition groups.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga forces have launched an operation to liberate the northern Iraqi town of Sinjar from DAESH terrorists with the support of air strikes carried out by the US-led coalition on Thursday.
> 
> The Peshmerga successfully took control of a strategic road that connects Sinjar with Raqqa, DAESH's proclaimed capital in Syria, according to the head of Foreign Relations Hemin Hawrami, at the Kurdistan Democratic Party, led by Kurdistan Regional Government President Massoud Barzani.
> 
> Ankara takes into account that DAESH groups - are under pressure in northern Syria from Kurdish YPG militias of the PYD - have currently been pushed by the Peshmerga forces in northern Iraq, reinforced by US-led coalition air strikes, could be stuck in an area around Jarablus.
> 
> Therefore, Turkey has been planning to move into this territory with a 10,700-strong military force, including its special forces at a depth of 46 kilometres to secure a “refugee zone” for civilians in the areas between Azaz and Jarablus by clearing DAESH from the region, the reports claimed.
> 
> The mentioned military units will stand by at seven different regions in the Kilis province along its Syria border expecting the “go” order, the reports added.
> 
> However, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said that "A ground force is something which we have to talk [about] together," in an interview with CNN’s Christiane Amanpour on Nov. 9, signaling that Turkey will coordinate its ground operation against DAESH with the allies.
> 
> "There's a need of an integrated strategy including air campaign and ground troops. But Turkey alone cannot take all this burden. If there is a coalition and a very well designed integrated strategy, Turkey is ready to take part in all senses," he emphasised.
> 
> Turkish warplanes hit in late October the DAESH targets which are located in an area around the Harjalah village between Marea and Azez where Turkey and US-led coalition forces have long argued that they are aiming to establish an “ISIS [DAESH]-free zone” following the Incirlik deal between the allies.
> 
> Turkey reached a comprehensive agreement with the US government on July 23 to allow its Incirlik Air Base to be used by the US-led coalition forces for air strikes against DAESH, to execute a joint action plan for northern Syrian issues.
> 
> 
> Now Turkey, which is hosting the 10th G20 Leaders’ Summit this weekend, will share its “refugee zone” plan with world leaders, aiming to address the growing refugee crisis, according to the media reports.
> 
> The proposed refugee zone in northwestern Syria will take over five million refugees for at least ten years, having six grand refugee camps, 11 logistics bases, and 17 safety terminals, according to the Turkish plan.
> 
> The country will reportedly seek political and economic support of countries participating in the upcoming G20 summit for the plan.
> 
> Syrian refugees escaping the violence in their country fled Syria in large numbers following the escalation of the Syrian Civil War in 2012. One of their most preferred destinations was neighbouring Turkey, which hosts the most Syrian refugees in the world according to registration records of the United Nations.
> 
> Turkey is also a transit point for refugees aiming to reach European countries from Syria because of its geography bridging the Middle East and Europe.
> 
> Turkey has spent more than $8 billion of its own resources on the refugees whose number in the country has exceeded 2.2 million people.
> 
> Source:
> TRTWorld and agencies



That can't possibly be true. If the Turks send ground troops, and they actively fight with Daesh, then there will be a blowback towards Ankara. And then they'll also be fighting against the Kurds in Syria, right? Or are they going to ignore Daesh and fight against the Kurds? But then that would mean USA's investments going down the drain, what do the Americans do then?

And what if objectives clash directly with Syrian/Russian/Iranian/Iraqi objectives with the Turks directions? What if ground troops are accidently or "accidently" killed by the former?

Seems like a clusterfuck. I doubt it will be happen. But if you asked me two weeks ago if Turkey would shoot down a Russian plane, I would have said NO, so what the shit do I know?


----------



## xenon54 out

Madali said:


> That can't possibly be true. If the Turks send ground troops, and they actively fight with Daesh, then there will be a blowback towards Ankara. And then they'll also be fighting against the Kurds in Syria, right? Or are they going to ignore Daesh and fight against the Kurds? But then that would mean USA's investments going down the drain, what do the Americans do then?
> 
> And what if objectives clash directly with Syrian/Russian/Iranian/Iraqi objectives with the Turks directions? What if ground troops are accidently or "accidently" killed by the former?
> 
> Seems like a clusterfuck. I doubt it will be happen. But if you asked me two weeks ago if Turkey would shoot down a Russian plane, I would have said NO, so what the shit do I know?


I also see the possibility as low but if US and Turkey go in there then im pretty sure no Russian,Iranian or Syrian plane or troops will come close to the ground troops.

U.S., Turkey working to finish shutting northern Syria border: Kerry| Reuters


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## cabatli_53

If the subject is about our national interests, No one can frighten Turkish nation. Our national poem starts with "Korkma" means "never afraid". We always feel pure confident to ourselves cause of our ancestors actions against arrogant forces and We know own capabilities, How we will react against anybody who wants some actions. If We keep our silence on some incidents, It is about believing the benefits of friendship, not about inability so Don't push the limits more !

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## Madali

xenon54 said:


> I also see the possibility as low but if US and Turkey go in there then im pretty sure no Russian,Iranian or Syrian plane or troops will come close to the ground troops.
> 
> U.S., Turkey working to finish shutting northern Syria border: Kerry| Reuters



But it sounds like it would be weird. Would the Turkish ground troop with the US air force support the Kurds? Or fight them? I don't think Turkish ground troops would be willing to die for the Kurds, and I don't think US air force would help Turks fight the Kurds? So what happens if the objectives clash?

And I'm not saying the Russian/Syrian/Iranian are going to directly attack the Turks, but it would mean possibility of accidental incidents.


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## xenon54 out

Madali said:


> But it sounds like it would be weird. Would the Turkish ground troop with the US air force support the Kurds? Or fight them? I don't think Turkish ground troops would be willing to die for the Kurds, and I don't think US air force would help Turks fight the Kurds? So what happens if the objectives clash?
> 
> And I'm not saying the Russian/Syrian/Iranian are going to directly attack the Turks, but it would mean possibility of accidental incidents.


It isnt even mentioned that Turks will set a foot on Syria, the talk is about FSA trained by US that get aerial support by US and Turkish jets.


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## cabatli_53

BTW, Turkey will be the first country who is going to store EM pulses of S-400 system to generate a counter electronic attack method thanks to Aselsan developed Koral ED/ET system. Once We captured S-400 sources, Most probably, USA and other NATO forces will also benefit...






vs

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## Madali

xenon54 said:


> It isnt even mentioned that Turks will set a foot on Syria, the talk is about FSA trained by US that get aerial support by US and Turkish jets.



I was going by your first link which said,
_"Turkish media reports have claimed that *Turkey will launch an extensive ground operation* against DAESH strongholds in northern Syria in mid-December, under close coordination with the US-led coalition forces in order to establish a “refugee zone” in the region"_


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## faithfulguy

Thanks to PDF for keeping me informed. I was away on a cruise and away from the world for a week and this crap happened.


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## xenon54 out

Madali said:


> I was going by your first link which said,
> _"Turkish media reports have claimed that *Turkey will launch an extensive ground operation* against DAESH strongholds in northern Syria in mid-December, under close coordination with the US-led coalition forces in order to establish a “refugee zone” in the region"_


As said its claim and i think the possibility is low, when its comes to an operation inside Syria then its being talked about FSA mostly.

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## cabatli_53

Russia worries about a likely decision of Turkish officials to close strait passage of Russian war and supply ships and call it as doomsday scenario !

"Boğazların kapatılması kıyamet senaryosu olur" | Yağmur Haber

Sinking Ruski ships passing Turkish straits are just a matter of decision at a likely crises !










Ukraine prepared a nice celebration video for Turkish Army !






Turkey responds to Ukraine with a nice video !






Poroschenko ließ sich in Abu Dhabi vor dem Stand des türkischen Raketenbauers Roketsan blicken. Laut Quellen zeigte er dabei Interesse an einer gemeinsamen Entwicklung von Flugabwehrsystemen.

Waffenmesse in Abu Dhabi: Poroschenko im Kaufrausch / Sputnik Deutschland - Nachrichten, Meinung, Radio

Waffenmesse in Abu Dhabi: Poroschenko im Kaufrausch

"Не могу назвать точный круг вопросов, который обсуждался Порошенко и нашим советом директоров, но это был визит вежливости. Порошенко выразил желание укреплять сотрудничество с нашей компанией и Турцией в целом. Мы показывали ему свою продукцию, но никаких контрактов подписано не было", — сказал представитель Roketsan.

Источникhttp://becthik.info/2843-roketsan-otricaet-zaklyuchenie-kontrakta-s-poroshenko-na-idex-2015.html © BECTHIK Юго-Востока


According to source, Ukraine wants to jointly develop SAM missiles with Turkey but It is not told Which SAM missile project Ukraine wants to join in. There are two ongoing SAM missile project called Hisar-A low and Hisar-O medium altitude Roketsan is developing at present. Roketsan/Aselsan is also developing a new and more capable domestic long range missile system called Hisar-U and It is predicted that What Ukrainian officials mentioned as joint project, is joining development of domestic Hisar-U missiles under a cooperation with Ukraine.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



*Russia warns Ukraine against sale of missile technology *

Russia has warned Ukraine against selling long-range ballistic missile technology to third countries, amid media claims that officials from a Ukrainian company had visited Turkey for talks about a possible sale.

In a statement released on Monday, the Russian Foreign Ministry said that the Ukrainian administration, considered illegitimate by Moscow, should take its international responsibilities to prevent the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction seriously. The statement cited reports in Russian media alleging that representatives from the Ukrainian company Yuzhmash have held talks with foreign clients on the sale of technologies involved in the production of RS-20 Voyevoda (SS-18 Satan) ballistic missiles, according to Russian news agency RIA Novosti.






The ministry did not name any foreign clients but some reports in the Russian media claimed that Ukraine is trying to sell the missile technology to Turkey. The Turkish daily Hürriyet quoted claims on a Russian social media website that a Ukrainian delegation visited Turkey on April 5 to discuss a possible sale. A Ukrainian delegation has also visited China, according to Russian reports cited by Hürriyet.

Russia warns Ukraine against sale of missile technology

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## pher

cabatli_53 said:


> Russia worries about a likely decision of Turkish officials to close strait passage of Russian war and supply ships and call it as doomsday scenario !
> 
> "Boğazların kapatılması kıyamet senaryosu olur" | Yağmur Haber
> 
> Sinking Ruski ships passing Turkish straits are just a matter of decision at a likely crises !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine prepared a nice celebration video for Turkish Army !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey responds to Ukraine with a nice video !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poroschenko ließ sich in Abu Dhabi vor dem Stand des türkischen Raketenbauers Roketsan blicken. Laut Quellen zeigte er dabei Interesse an einer gemeinsamen Entwicklung von Flugabwehrsystemen.
> 
> Waffenmesse in Abu Dhabi: Poroschenko im Kaufrausch / Sputnik Deutschland - Nachrichten, Meinung, Radio
> 
> Waffenmesse in Abu Dhabi: Poroschenko im Kaufrausch
> 
> "Не могу назвать точный круг вопросов, который обсуждался Порошенко и нашим советом директоров, но это был визит вежливости. Порошенко выразил желание укреплять сотрудничество с нашей компанией и Турцией в целом. Мы показывали ему свою продукцию, но никаких контрактов подписано не было", — сказал представитель Roketsan.
> 
> Источникhttp://becthik.info/2843-roketsan-otricaet-zaklyuchenie-kontrakta-s-poroshenko-na-idex-2015.html © BECTHIK Юго-Востока
> 
> 
> According to source, Ukraine wants to jointly develop SAM missiles with Turkey but It is not told Which SAM missile project Ukraine wants to join in. There are two ongoing SAM missile project called Hisar-A low and Hisar-O medium altitude Roketsan is developing at present. Roketsan/Aselsan is also developing a new and more capable domestic long range missile system called Hisar-U and It is predicted that What Ukrainian officials mentioned as joint project, is joining development of domestic Hisar-U missiles under a cooperation with Ukraine.


excellent, no better excuse for russian to claim back *Constantinople*. I dare any christian white nato countries will come to die for turks.

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## cabatli_53

pher said:


> excellent, no better excuses for russian to claim back constantinople. I dare if any christian white nato countries will come to die for turks.



Don't you have anything different than such stupid imaginations to talk ?

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## pher

cabatli_53 said:


> Don't you have anything different than such stupid imaginations to talk ?


No, we quite enjoy turks suffer, no matter what.

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## cabatli_53

pher said:


> No, we quite enjoy turks suffer, no matter what.




The people who has a simple brain ability, aware of Who is suffering ! No matter what !

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## Beidou2020

cabatli_53 said:


> Don't you have anything different than such stupid imaginations to talk ?



Kid, all you got are imaginations.

If Turkey is so tough, why aren't you fighting the Russians?

They are exterminating your Turkmen like worthless dogs and all you got are "we could do this" "we could do that"

DO SOMETHING!

Turkey doesn't have the guts to get into a war with Russia. Turks are famous for its cowardice.

1 Russian died from a Turkish sneak attack when Russian bombers were bombing your Turkmen.
What did Russia do in return?
They have exterminated an ENTIRE race of Turkmen.
An entire race wiped out for the death of 1 Russian life.

Russia has proved that Turkish blood is cheaper than seawater.

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## cabatli_53

Beidou2020 said:


> Kid, all you got are imaginations.
> 
> If Turkey is so tough, why aren't you fighting the Russians?
> 
> They are exterminating your Turkmen like worthless dogs and all you got are "we could do this" "we could do that"
> 
> DO SOMETHING!
> 
> Turkey doesn't have the guts to get into a war with Russia. Turks are famous for its cowardice.
> 
> 1 Russian died from a Turkish sneak attack when Russian bombers were bombing your Turkmen.
> What did Russia do in return?
> They have exterminated an ENTIRE race of Turkmen.
> An entire race wiped out for the death of 1 Russian life.
> 
> Russia has proved that Turkish blood is cheaper than seawater.



Yea yea whatever you say ! Feeding the trolls like you ! Niet !


----------



## Kyle Sun

damm1t said:


> Phosphoring the civillians ? That's a war crime.. But what do you expect from inhumans and their inhuman dog eater supporters..


war crime ?
How about killing a ejected pilot in parachute like a bird?

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## PERSIANEMPIRE

cabatli_53 said:


> Yea yea whatever you say ! Feeding the trolls like you ! Niet !


He is right, Turks are dying on the Syrian-Turkish border and dozens of your trucks got bombed. Why you not respond ?

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## damm1t

Kyle Sun said:


> war crime ?
> How about killing a ejected pilot in parachute like a bird?



Did Turkey kill him?
And what about shot the passenger airliner? just sayin..


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## PERSIANEMPIRE

cabatli_53 said:


> If the subject is about our national interests, No one can frighten Turkish nation. Our national poem starts with "Korkma" means "never afraid". We always feel pure confident to ourselves cause of our ancestors actions against arrogant forces and We know own capabilities, How we will react against anybody who wants some actions. If We keep our silence on some incidents, It is about believing the benefits of friendship, not about inability so Don't push the limits more !


And all of this happens behind NATO's skirt ?

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## damm1t

PERSIANEMPIRE said:


> He is right, Turks are dying on the Syrian-Turkish border and dozens of your trucks got bombed. Why you not respond ?



Bombing aid trucks shows how men are Russians... pathetic


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## PERSIANEMPIRE

damm1t said:


> Bombing aid trucks shows how men are Russians... pathetic


arm smuggling trucks disguised as ''aid'', yes.

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## Kyle Sun

damm1t said:


> Did Turkey kill him?
> And what about shot the passenger airliner? just sayin..


well , turkey did not shoot him but your so called reletives did and they are sending the body to you. You say nothing about that.

airliner?
RU has proven their innocence.

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## ptldM3

cabatli_53 said:


> Brothers, Let some Chinese and Russian kids talk whatever they want. Russian incapable forces in Syria can't do anything against Turkey militarily except bombing civilians as a response so The keyboard warriors need to discharge their hatred in such platforms. Actually, they also know that They can only nuke their own holes If the subject is a country like Turkiye.






You have to be kidding? Russia can do nothing? Russia can bombard Turkey with hundreds of cruise missiles that would be out of reach from Turkey, and Turkey's defense would be what?

Remember your F-4 that was blown out of the sky by Syria? It was done so by a modern Pantsir system, the same systems that are in and around Latakia. Your fanboy fantasies are just that. There is no need to even mention the S-400 system, everyone knows it can destroy aircraft from 250 miles out, well before those aircraft can launch any weapons and before you go...'but but but...we can track its signal and have a counter'. The S-400 is a frequency hoping radar, it has EW counters including the frequency hoping with make it difficult if not impossible to jam or decipher. Its is also probably in training mode.


And should i even mention how your F-16s were under radar lock for 5 minutes and 40 seconds?  Clearly even your F-16s have no counter measures to disrupt a radar lock from an SU-30, you were being toyed with. So yes Russia is very capable. For whatever reason if Russia decided to use military force against Turkey your military would be reduced to a fraction of its current size in just a matter of days. Unless you think that Turkey can magically dodge and destroy hundreds of cruise missiles as well as somehow avoid air defense systems and aircraft that have proven they can destroys Turkish aircraft.

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## damm1t

Kyle Sun said:


> well , turkey did not shoot him but your so called reletives did and they are sending the body to you. You say nothing about that.
> 
> airliner?
> RU has proven their innocence.



From your own post, just replace Turkey with russia...
well ,* russia* did not shoot him but* their* so called reletives did ...
So we are innocent too

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## fox 2

ptldM3 said:


> *And should i even mention how your F-16s were under radar lock for 5 minutes and 40 seconds?  Clearly even your F-16s have no counter measures to disrupt a radar lock from an SU-30, you were being toyed with. *


Actually this is our success. You have no idea 
BTW i didn't know that was a SU-30. That's better of course. Thanks for this amazing ELINT-SIGINT.


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## ptldM3

zenmastera said:


> Actually this is our success. You have no idea
> BTW i didn't know that was a SU-30. That's better of course. Thanks for this amazing ELINT.





Yes of course, now you know all of the SU-30s secrets  By that token Russia knows the secrets of every aircraft in the world including the F-22. Radars can also be switched on to 'training mode' as to not give anything away.

Face reality, your F-16s were hopeless to break the radar lock which is what all pilots are trained to do. You Turks are talking big, making big claims that Russia can not defeat Turkey, that the Russian military is pathetic, ect. Well military analysts think differently. You Turks were not so bold and cocky when Syria downed your F-4...now were you? Again there is a reason why Turkey announced it would stay out of Syrian airspace because they know Russia can down Turkish aircraft with ease.

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## fox 2

ptldM3 said:


> Yes of course, now you know all of the SU-30s secrets  By that token Russia knows the secrets of every aircraft in the world including the F-22. Radars can also be switched on to 'training mode' as to not give anything away.
> 
> Face reality, your F-16s were hopeless to break the radar lock which is what all pilots are trained to do. You Turks are talking big, making big claims that Russia can not defeat Turkey, that the Russian military is pathetic, ect. Well military analysts think differently. You Turks were not so bold and cocky when Syria downed your F-4...now were you? Again there is a reason why Turkey announced it would stay out of Syrian airspace because they know Russia can down Turkish aircraft with ease.


Hahaha literally full of lies.
I know you realize radar case when i said, SU-30 will never shot a Turkish plane 
After F-4 we did not cry like you and shot downed 1 plane and 1 heli plus a bear 
Turkey announced ? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?????????? Maaaaan stop reading bullshits. You are living in the dreams.


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## ptldM3

zenmastera said:


> Hahaha literally full of lies.
> I know you realize radar case when i said, SU-30 will never shot a Turkish plane
> After F-4 we did not cry like you and shot downed 1 plane and 1 heli plus a bear
> Turkey announced ? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat ?????????? Maaaaan stop reading bullshits. You are living in the dreams.






Learn English, then come back and talk like an adult but until then go play in your sandbox.

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## fox 2

ptldM3 said:


> Learn English, then come back and talk like an adult but until then go play in your sandbox.


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## Oksoko

ptldM3 said:


> Russia can bombard Turkey with hundreds of cruise missiles that would be out of reach from Turkey, and Turkey's defense would be what?
> /QUOTE]



We have a idiom in Turkiye.We say "*Barking dog cannot bite anyone but be careful with the one that which keeps its silence*"

Try to be like us. Do not watch too many movies as my suggestion...

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## MadDog

cabatli_53 said:


> BTW, Turkey will be the first country who is going to store EM pulses of S-400 system to generate a counter electronic attack method thanks to Aselsan developed Koral ED/ET system. Once We captured S-400 sources, Most probably, USA and other NATO forces will also benefit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vs



If Turkey uses it with success then Pakistan should also buy it from Turkey since India might be buying S-400 from Russia !!!

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## Lord ZeN

MadDog said:


> If Turkey uses it with success then Pakistan should also buy it from Turkey since India might be buying S-400 from Russia !!!


I don't EM attacks are going to effective against S-400 . Beside I don't think either Turkey or the Russians wants to escalate it any further. So we would never know.


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## Some1LikeU

Beidou2020 said:


> Turk, stop embarrassing yourself in front of Russia. You don't even have the balls to protect your own Turkmen people. Turkey is not only weak, it's also cowardly.


Ask Turks to your frandfather if he still alive, we are a lot but a ''covard'' NEVER and EVER.. may be chineese do you like to architec that u build GREAT WALL dude...?

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## T-123456

Providence said:


> I must warn you here .. EVERY SINGLE CHINESE member here except the title holders are brain dead idiots !
> 
> Don't indulge with them.


Why except the title holders,i have only met one Chinese member who actually uses his brain and he is not a title holder?

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## BLACKEAGLE

For me, Turkish-made products are choice #1.

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## Kyle Sun

damm1t said:


> From your own post, just replace Turkey with russia...
> well ,* russia* did not shoot him but* their* so called reletives did ...
> So we are innocent too


do not play fool here.


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## Adıvar

Russia seems recently lost its mind especially after Turkey shot down its jet which violated Turkish air zone and refused to leave.

They arrest Turkish students, businessmen/women in Russia. They are bombing civilians, markets in Syria. This is not manly, not honest.

I would like Russia to fight Turkish Army by military means, if can dare, face to face. NOT like cowards killing child, women.

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## HAIDER

In this whole scenario, EU comes out winner and Turkish lost. Now EU decided to give Turkey around 3.7 billion Euros to uplift its economy Turkish govt will take care of Syrian refugees, also Turkey will be responsible for the movement of Syrian refugees. In other words, no more refugees are welcome in EU. Plus, talks will resume to add Turkey in EU, as usual. Exactly, Pak-Afghan war pattern.

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## pher

Adıvar said:


> Russia seems recently lost its mind especially after Turkey shot down its jet which violated Turkish air zone and refused to leave.
> 
> They arrest Turkish students, businessmen/women in Russia. They are bombing civilians, markets in Syria. This is not manly, not honest.
> 
> I would like Russia to fight Turkish Army by military means, if can dare, face to face. NOT like cowards killing child, women.


you want russia invade turkey? not the time yet. if you people have balls, you should cross border to protect you kin in syria, russians are there.

Empty brag leads you people nowhere, now your carppy F16 even dare not to fly near your own border. Russia's SAM just deployed 50km away from turk border, welcome to try.

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## Aslan

cabatli_53 said:


> BTW, Turkey will be the first country who is going to store EM pulses of S-400 system to generate a counter electronic attack method thanks to Aselsan developed Koral ED/ET system. Once We captured S-400 sources, Most probably, USA and other NATO forces will also benefit...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> vs



If that happens then it can benefit Pakistan as well.

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## jammersat

i think the turkish jet was radar locked


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## victor07

cabatli_53 said:


> BTW, Turkey will be the first country who is going to store EM pulses of S-400 system to generate a counter electronic attack method thanks to Aselsan developed Koral ED/ET system. Once We captured S-400 sources, Most probably, USA and other NATO forces will also benefit...
> 
> 
> 
> Aslan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If that happens then it can benefit Pakistan as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Judging from the dimensions of KORAL's antenna system, it is designed to jam airborne c and x band radars. So it is useless against surveillance radar of s-400, since it works in the decimeter s band. This system is also useless against target aiming radar of s-400 as it is evident that the source of jamming signal from the terrain misses the sector of the aiming radar beam. This system can be useful only against homing heads of s-400 missiles, but again, if the source of jamming signal get into the sector of the missile homing head beam. Оnly airborne jammers are effective against ground air defense systems. However, one should consider the limited power of the air jammers and thus a relatively small range.
Click to expand...


Judging from the dimensions of KORAL's antenna system, it is designed to jam airborne c and x band radars. So it is useless against surveillance radar of s-400, since it works in the decimeter s band. This system is also useless against target aiming radar of s-400 as it is evident that the source of jamming signal from the terrain misses the sector of the aiming radar beam. This system can be useful only against homing heads of s-400 missiles, but again, if the source of jamming signal get into the sector of the missile homing head beam. Оnly airborne jammers are effective against ground air defense systems. However, one should consider the limited power of the air jammers and thus a relatively small range.


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## Tiqiu

Turkey has been dreaming of joining EU since 1987. They will have to keep dreaming maybe for another 30 years given what currently normal folks in EU thinking of them.

Read all 960+ comments at today’s UK dailymail website re:EU leaders agree Turkey 2.1 billion help tackle migrant crisis tighten security borders, then you know I am right.

After going through all comments myself, I can say that fewer than 10 posters are pro-turkey. I highlighted few comments which gained more likes for you to judge. I can’t help but put some Turk posters comments at beginning because their stupidity resembles some Turks at PDF here. 


*One Turk’s rants and look what he got in return:*


*Omar Habibi, fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
Your women are ours!! Mwahahahaha.

ThinkFirst2014 , Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
Bend over and shove it, troll.

Jct279, devon, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
I can assure we are not. We like clean healthy respectable men who work not vile dirty creepy fat men
who stink of spices and look us up and down in slimey manners and believe they can touch us where
and when ever they want*


*
Omar Habibi,Merkel fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago*
* Europa women love our kebab!

ThinkFirst2014, Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
Go take a bath, you filthy pig.

Intraining22, Offshore, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
Not as much as your goats love it*

* RealisticOAP, London, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
This 'Omar Habibi ' ... If you were a turkey ... there will be an endless queue of us waiting to carve you!*


*Another Turk dreamer:*


*Phil Uranus, mesopotamia, United States, 8 hours ago
When will the EU welcome Turkey as a member? 

Richie Cartmann, Limassol, Cyprus, 8 hours ago
never ever

Crossx77, Leicester, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
It will never happen in a million years, they would have to change everything about the way of life to be
able to join which they would never do!*


*Yet another Turk is still in his wet dream that China and Russia can be fooled into its trick in the future:*


*Maple for Sanders, SpringfieldMA, United States, 2 hours ago
Global energy hub, 2025 silk road, friendly and tolerant people, beautiful place, good transport links, rising 
up the table in education and healthcare. It's a no-brainer!! Welcome to the a EU,.Turkey!!*



*The most rated socalled anti-Turk comments:*


*Glassowlass12, Glasgow, United Kingdom, 11 hours ago,1865 likes/32 dislikes
And this money will go to Isis , totally crazy!!!*

*
dannyboy, cork, Ireland, 9 hours ago, 1344 likes/11 dislikes
turkey should have been boycotted instead of being rewarded for their blackmail of europe, allowing boats 
to sail from their territory causing the deaths of many and making it look like europes fault , what is merkel 
thinking ? giving visa free travel to the turks, she is crazy, get ready for health tourism on a massive scale *


*Hemingway5952, Newcadtle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,948 likes/8 dislikes
You simply cannot trust Turkey why oh why do you never listen!*


*Crying out loud, London, 11 hours ago,855 likes/15 dislikes
Turkey will fund ISIS!*


*Walkers Manchester, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,781 likes/6 dislikes
They really got no idea what they are doing , massive mistake .*


*pops, gravesend, 9 hours ago, 682 likes/7 dislikes
Are they out of their tiny minds Turkey can not be trusted never could be and never will be*


*David J P, London, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 612 Likes/ 9 Dislikes
Nice compensation for the loss of the oil revenue (alleged) now that Russia has cut off supplies from ISIL*


*Yorkshirelad123, Huddersfield, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,319 likes ,2 dislikes
Why are the governments of the EU riding roughshod over the will of the people? We don't want Turkey in
the EU or NATO and we certainly don't want to give them any money.*


*Ew1234, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 265 likes, 3 dislikes
What a joke you silly woman, that money is going straight to ISIS you FOOL.*

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## Hassan Al-Somal

TurAr said:


> Turkish Russian relationships are way too important for the both country to be sacrificed for the personal shows of Putin or anyone else. Putin must come back to his senses before its too late and he shouldn't leave Turkey's attempts to de-escalate the situation unanswered.
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey shot down a Russian jet out of the blue sky for no apparent reason according to Russia. I don't see how you can correlate it with an ingredient in Chinese cuisine..?


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

cabatli_53 said:


> Russia worries about a likely decision of Turkish officials to close strait passage of Russian war and supply ships and call it as doomsday scenario !
> 
> "Boğazların kapatılması kıyamet senaryosu olur" | Yağmur Haber
> 
> Sinking Ruski ships passing Turkish straits are just a matter of decision at a likely crises !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine prepared a nice celebration video for Turkish Army !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey responds to Ukraine with a nice video !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Poroschenko ließ sich in Abu Dhabi vor dem Stand des türkischen Raketenbauers Roketsan blicken. Laut Quellen zeigte er dabei Interesse an einer gemeinsamen Entwicklung von Flugabwehrsystemen.
> 
> Waffenmesse in Abu Dhabi: Poroschenko im Kaufrausch / Sputnik Deutschland - Nachrichten, Meinung, Radio
> 
> Waffenmesse in Abu Dhabi: Poroschenko im Kaufrausch
> 
> "Не могу назвать точный круг вопросов, который обсуждался Порошенко и нашим советом директоров, но это был визит вежливости. Порошенко выразил желание укреплять сотрудничество с нашей компанией и Турцией в целом. Мы показывали ему свою продукцию, но никаких контрактов подписано не было", — сказал представитель Roketsan.
> 
> Источникhttp://becthik.info/2843-roketsan-otricaet-zaklyuchenie-kontrakta-s-poroshenko-na-idex-2015.html © BECTHIK Юго-Востока
> 
> 
> According to source, Ukraine wants to jointly develop SAM missiles with Turkey but It is not told Which SAM missile project Ukraine wants to join in. There are two ongoing SAM missile project called Hisar-A low and Hisar-O medium altitude Roketsan is developing at present. Roketsan/Aselsan is also developing a new and more capable domestic long range missile system called Hisar-U and It is predicted that What Ukrainian officials mentioned as joint project, is joining development of domestic Hisar-U missiles under a cooperation with Ukraine.
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> *Russia warns Ukraine against sale of missile technology *
> 
> Russia has warned Ukraine against selling long-range ballistic missile technology to third countries, amid media claims that officials from a Ukrainian company had visited Turkey for talks about a possible sale.
> 
> In a statement released on Monday, the Russian Foreign Ministry said that the Ukrainian administration, considered illegitimate by Moscow, should take its international responsibilities to prevent the non-proliferation of weapons of mass destruction seriously. The statement cited reports in Russian media alleging that representatives from the Ukrainian company Yuzhmash have held talks with foreign clients on the sale of technologies involved in the production of RS-20 Voyevoda (SS-18 Satan) ballistic missiles, according to Russian news agency RIA Novosti.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The ministry did not name any foreign clients but some reports in the Russian media claimed that Ukraine is trying to sell the missile technology to Turkey. The Turkish daily Hürriyet quoted claims on a Russian social media website that a Ukrainian delegation visited Turkey on April 5 to discuss a possible sale. A Ukrainian delegation has also visited China, according to Russian reports cited by Hürriyet.
> 
> Russia warns Ukraine against sale of missile technology



Just some sensationalist article, today's China has several brands of ICBM which are more advanced than the SS-18.

Why would we need to put our relationship with Russia on a stake just for some 1960s Soviet technology?


----------



## Adıvar

pher said:


> you want russia invade turkey? not the time yet. if you people have balls, you should cross border to protect you kin in syria, russians are there.
> 
> Empty brag leads you people nowhere, now your carppy F16 even dare not to fly near your own border. Russia's SAM just deployed 50km away from turk border, welcome to try.


Yes, i want Russia to make a mistake like attacking us so that we can smush them and enslave their women for our harems. 

In Syria, what they do is just cowardly bombing civilians. Turkmens seem so far strong enough to fight Syrian "army". They do not need our help.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Azeri440 said:


> he probably doesn't even live in China , most of these western bashing morons also live in the west.



Beidou was born as an American, but he is now probably living in China with his Chinese wife.

He has the right to give his own opinion about his country.

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## Dungeness

Tiqiu said:


> Turkey has been dreaming of joining EU since 1987. They will have to keep dreaming maybe for another 30 years given what currently normal folks in EU thinking of them.
> 
> Read all 960+ comments at today’s UK dailymail website re:EU leaders agree Turkey 2.1 billion help tackle migrant crisis tighten security borders, then you know I am right.
> 
> After going through all comments myself, I can say that fewer than 10 posters are pro-turkey. I highlighted few comments which gained more likes for you to judge. I can’t help but put some Turk posters comments at beginning because their stupidity resembles some Turks at PDF here.
> 
> 
> *One Turk’s rants and look what he got in return:*
> 
> 
> *Omar Habibi, fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
> Your women are ours!! Mwahahahaha.
> 
> ThinkFirst2014 , Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
> Bend over and shove it, troll.
> 
> Jct279, devon, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> I can assure we are not. We like clean healthy respectable men who work not vile dirty creepy fat men
> who stink of spices and look us up and down in slimey manners and believe they can touch us where
> and when ever they want*
> 
> 
> *
> Omar Habibi,Merkel fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
> Europa women love our kebab!
> 
> ThinkFirst2014, Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
> Go take a bath, you filthy pig.
> 
> Intraining22, Offshore, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> Not as much as your goats love it*
> 
> * RealisticOAP, London, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> This 'Omar Habibi ' ... If you were a turkey ... there will be an endless queue of us waiting to carve you!*
> 
> 
> *Another Turk dreamer:*
> 
> 
> *Phil Uranus, mesopotamia, United States, 8 hours ago
> When will the EU welcome Turkey as a member?
> 
> Richie Cartmann, Limassol, Cyprus, 8 hours ago
> never ever
> 
> Crossx77, Leicester, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
> It will never happen in a million years, they would have to change everything about the way of life to be
> able to join which they would never do!*
> 
> 
> *Yet another Turk is still in his wet dream that China and Russia can be fooled into its trick in the future:*
> 
> 
> *Maple for Sanders, SpringfieldMA, United States, 2 hours ago
> Global energy hub, 2025 silk road, friendly and tolerant people, beautiful place, good transport links, rising
> up the table in education and healthcare. It's a no-brainer!! Welcome to the a EU,.Turkey!!*
> 
> 
> 
> *The most rated socalled anti-Turk comments:*
> 
> 
> *Glassowlass12, Glasgow, United Kingdom, 11 hours ago,1865 likes/32 dislikes
> And this money will go to Isis , totally crazy!!!*
> 
> *
> dannyboy, cork, Ireland, 9 hours ago, 1344 likes/11 dislikes
> turkey should have been boycotted instead of being rewarded for their blackmail of europe, allowing boats
> to sail from their territory causing the deaths of many and making it look like europes fault , what is merkel
> thinking ? giving visa free travel to the turks, she is crazy, get ready for health tourism on a massive scale *
> 
> 
> *Hemingway5952, Newcadtle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,948 likes/8 dislikes
> You simply cannot trust Turkey why oh why do you never listen!*
> 
> 
> *Crying out loud, London, 11 hours ago,855 likes/15 dislikes
> Turkey will fund ISIS!*
> 
> 
> *Walkers Manchester, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,781 likes/6 dislikes
> They really got no idea what they are doing , massive mistake .*
> 
> 
> *pops, gravesend, 9 hours ago, 682 likes/7 dislikes
> Are they out of their tiny minds Turkey can not be trusted never could be and never will be*
> 
> 
> *David J P, London, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 612 Likes/ 9 Dislikes
> Nice compensation for the loss of the oil revenue (alleged) now that Russia has cut off supplies from ISIL*
> 
> 
> *Yorkshirelad123, Huddersfield, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,319 likes ,2 dislikes
> Why are the governments of the EU riding roughshod over the will of the people? We don't want Turkey in
> the EU or NATO and we certainly don't want to give them any money.*
> 
> 
> *Ew1234, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 265 likes, 3 dislikes
> What a joke you silly woman, that money is going straight to ISIS you FOOL.*



My cousin's family went on a self guided tour to Turkey with a few friends earlier this year, and everyone of them had bad experience with Turkey taxi drivers. Those dishonest taxi drivers were just very good at swapping Lira bills. Turkey is more like a developing country than China.

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## pher

Tiqiu said:


> Turkey has been dreaming of joining EU since 1987. They will have to keep dreaming maybe for another 30 years given what currently normal folks in EU thinking of them.
> 
> Read all 960+ comments at today’s UK dailymail website re:EU leaders agree Turkey 2.1 billion help tackle migrant crisis tighten security borders, then you know I am right.
> 
> After going through all comments myself, I can say that fewer than 10 posters are pro-turkey. I highlighted few comments which gained more likes for you to judge. I can’t help but put some Turk posters comments at beginning because their stupidity resembles some Turks at PDF here.
> 
> 
> *One Turk’s rants and look what he got in return:*
> 
> 
> *Omar Habibi, fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
> Your women are ours!! Mwahahahaha.
> 
> ThinkFirst2014 , Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
> Bend over and shove it, troll.
> 
> Jct279, devon, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> I can assure we are not. We like clean healthy respectable men who work not vile dirty creepy fat men
> who stink of spices and look us up and down in slimey manners and believe they can touch us where
> and when ever they want*
> 
> 
> *
> Omar Habibi,Merkel fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
> Europa women love our kebab!
> 
> ThinkFirst2014, Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
> Go take a bath, you filthy pig.
> 
> Intraining22, Offshore, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> Not as much as your goats love it*
> 
> * RealisticOAP, London, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> This 'Omar Habibi ' ... If you were a turkey ... there will be an endless queue of us waiting to carve you!*
> 
> 
> *Another Turk dreamer:*
> 
> 
> *Phil Uranus, mesopotamia, United States, 8 hours ago
> When will the EU welcome Turkey as a member?
> 
> Richie Cartmann, Limassol, Cyprus, 8 hours ago
> never ever
> 
> Crossx77, Leicester, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
> It will never happen in a million years, they would have to change everything about the way of life to be
> able to join which they would never do!*
> 
> 
> *Yet another Turk is still in his wet dream that China and Russia can be fooled into its trick in the future:*
> 
> 
> *Maple for Sanders, SpringfieldMA, United States, 2 hours ago
> Global energy hub, 2025 silk road, friendly and tolerant people, beautiful place, good transport links, rising
> up the table in education and healthcare. It's a no-brainer!! Welcome to the a EU,.Turkey!!*
> 
> 
> 
> *The most rated socalled anti-Turk comments:*
> 
> 
> *Glassowlass12, Glasgow, United Kingdom, 11 hours ago,1865 likes/32 dislikes
> And this money will go to Isis , totally crazy!!!*
> 
> *
> dannyboy, cork, Ireland, 9 hours ago, 1344 likes/11 dislikes
> turkey should have been boycotted instead of being rewarded for their blackmail of europe, allowing boats
> to sail from their territory causing the deaths of many and making it look like europes fault , what is merkel
> thinking ? giving visa free travel to the turks, she is crazy, get ready for health tourism on a massive scale *
> 
> 
> *Hemingway5952, Newcadtle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,948 likes/8 dislikes
> You simply cannot trust Turkey why oh why do you never listen!*
> 
> 
> *Crying out loud, London, 11 hours ago,855 likes/15 dislikes
> Turkey will fund ISIS!*
> 
> 
> *Walkers Manchester, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,781 likes/6 dislikes
> They really got no idea what they are doing , massive mistake .*
> 
> 
> *pops, gravesend, 9 hours ago, 682 likes/7 dislikes
> Are they out of their tiny minds Turkey can not be trusted never could be and never will be*
> 
> 
> *David J P, London, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 612 Likes/ 9 Dislikes
> Nice compensation for the loss of the oil revenue (alleged) now that Russia has cut off supplies from ISIL*
> 
> 
> *Yorkshirelad123, Huddersfield, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,319 likes ,2 dislikes
> Why are the governments of the EU riding roughshod over the will of the people? We don't want Turkey in
> the EU or NATO and we certainly don't want to give them any money.*
> 
> 
> *Ew1234, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 265 likes, 3 dislikes
> What a joke you silly woman, that money is going straight to ISIS you FOOL.*


wow, just like what happened on this forum, pretty much everybody hate them, yet those turks still keep useless bragging.

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## Jamaal Yelmaaz

Adıvar said:


> Russia seems recently lost its mind especially after Turkey shot down its jet which violated Turkish air zone and refused to leave.
> 
> They arrest Turkish students, businessmen/women in Russia. They are bombing civilians, markets in Syria. This is not manly, not honest.
> 
> I would like Russia to fight Turkish Army by military means, if can dare, face to face. NOT like cowards killing child, women.


Thats why Russia called as mafia state...Russian army doesnt distinguish between civilians and military targets ...i 100 civil people could be killed if an enemy soldiers would be killed...Russian mlitiray logic work like that....this why they are bombing humanitarian and living facilities, sources...

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## Tiqiu

pher said:


> wow, just like what happened on this forum, pretty much everybody hate them, yet those turks still keep useless bragging.


What amazed me is that people from US,UK,Australia etc,which are supposed pro-turkey, dislike them. The most they were saying is that you can not trust Turks.

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## rcrmj

Adıvar said:


> Yes, i want Russia to make a mistake like attacking us so that we can smush them and enslave their women for our harems.
> 
> In Syria, what they do is just cowardly bombing civilians. Turkmens seem so far strong enough to fight Syrian "army". They do not need our help.


Russian are killing filthy terrorists, thats a fact, it is a known fact that Turkey is the main sponsor of terrorists``the West placed a blind eye on this fact because they want to use your immaturity to serve their own purposes```but that will back fire them, as terrorists have no alliance to any religions, politics and races, but only terror and their barbaric mindset

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## Nadezhda

Jamaal Yelmaaz said:


> Thats why Russia called as mafia state...Russian army doesnt distinguish between civilians and military targets ...i 100 civil people could be killed if an enemy soldiers would be killed...Russian mlitiray logic work like that....this why they are *bombing humanitarian and living facilities, sources*...



Yes, it's been reported widely in Media that in disguise of Humanitarian Aid; Turkey is supplying Weapons to it's Partners in crime aka Good Terrorists. People been arrested in Turkey for Exposing her support to terrorists in Syria.

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## Tiqiu

Dungeness said:


> My cousin's family went on a self guided tour to Turkey with a few friends earlier this year, and everyone of them had bad experience with Turkey taxi drivers. Those dishonest taxi drivers were just very good at swapping Lira bills. Turkey is more like a developing country than China.


Many years ago I had a lot of trips to many cities in India,Indonesia,Philippines etc,my experience with local cabbies was fine, they avoided using meter and negotiated a fixed price.locals told me they might have inflated the fares, but I did not feel cheated in a way that your relatives did.


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## dy1022

Everyone dislike turks these days, but in here these turks still feeling good and called others stupid!

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## Adıvar

Dungeness said:


> My cousin's family went on a self guided tour to Turkey with a few friends earlier this year, and everyone of them had bad experience with Turkey taxi drivers. Those dishonest taxi drivers were just very good at swapping Lira bills. Turkey is more like a developing country than China.


I stayed in China for quite a time. Believe me, taxi drivers are all same everywhere. 

Should i speak about the bad things i have experienced in there? 
And should i generalize from some bad people to The Chinese people ? No. 
Dont let the western propaganda blind you.

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## Tiqiu

Adıvar said:


> I stayed in China for quite a time. Believe me, taxi drivers are all same everywhere.
> 
> Should i speak about the bad things i have experienced in there?
> And should i generalize from some bad people to The Chinese people ? No.
> Dont let the western propaganda blind you.


You had a point that bad thing can happen everywhere.

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## Adıvar

dy1022 said:


> Everyone dislike turks these days, but in here these turks still feeling good and called others stupid!



The hatred of westerners towards us is not new. It started 1000 years ago when we smushed Rome Empire and enslaved their women. 

I met two Europeans in another forum who seemed to hate us Turks very much. I asked them "why". They said they were afraid that Turks would some day in future invade Europe once again..!

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## tesla

bastards are bombing civilians in idlip. come and fight like a man. cowards

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## Tiqiu

Adıvar said:


> The hatred of westerners towards us is not new. It started 1000 years ago when we smushed Rome Empire and enslaved their women.
> 
> I met two Europeans in another forum who seemed to hate us Turks very much. I asked them "why". They said they were afraid that Turks would some day in future invade Europe once again..!


This also true. But why are your people still fancying of getting accepted into EU?

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## Adıvar

Tiqiu said:


> You had a point that bad thing can happen everywhere.



Yes.

Unfortunately, Easterners seem to believe western propaganda easily.. In fact, westerners are against everything none-white. Blacks, Muslims, Chinese, Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, Native Americans.. The white crimes committed over others are beyond imagination but they are good at covering them.



Tiqiu said:


> This also true. But why are your people still fancying of getting accepted into EU?


As i see, most Turkish people do not care about EU membership. The recent meeting held by Turkey and EU was barely news here. EU is a sick union. Just look at Greece.

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## Tiqiu

Adıvar said:


> Yes.
> 
> Unfortunately, Easterners seem to believe western propaganda easily.. In fact, westerners are against everything none-white. Blacks, Muslims, Chinese, Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, Native Americans.. The white crimes committed over others are beyond imagination but they are good at covering them.
> 
> 
> As i see, most Turkish people do not care about EU membership. The recent meeting held by Turkey and EU was barely news here. EU is a sick union. Just look at Greece.


Just met a Greek guy who is from the region of Spartacus. He told me the Greeks hate the German most. And more likely UK will get exit from EU. Thus it is a sick union indeed.

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## pher

to chinese,there is an artical about turk army fighting story on sina, which make me laugh all the way to hurt the belly, otherwise I will translate its essence into English.

*深度：土耳其空军真的很强大 曾经空袭干掉自己3艘舰*

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## Some1LikeU

Chineese Trolls everywhere... Thé s400 settled there 12 days ago the Russian fighter downey day and it was activated, according to putin's plan su24 was violating Turkish airspace and turkish airforces shoot su24 at final Russians was downing 2 Turkish f16s. But they got a surprise KORAL EW system surprise them that su24 s pilot could t se aa missile. S400 s could t fired. Plan was failed.And now Thats why putin getting very angry. He couldnt get a good s400 promotion...

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## ChineseTiger1986

Adıvar said:


> Yes.
> Unfortunately, *Easterners seem to believe western propaganda easily*.. In fact, westerners are against everything none-white. Blacks, Muslims, Chinese, Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, Native Americans.. The white crimes committed over others are beyond imagination but they are good at covering them.



Most Chinese members here don't buy the western propaganda, but they just hope that Turkey can stop funding our separatism, and stop conspiring with the West on the Xinjiang issue.

China is always trying hard to befriend with Turkey. Despite Turkey has funded a lot of separatists in Xinjiang, yet China hasn't funded a single Kurdish separatist in Turkey.

The Uighurs are Chinese, and why they should become independent just because they spoke a Turkic language? There are also many Turkic-speaking people in Russia, so they should all become independent?

You accuse that the Chinese members are easily buying the western propaganda, yet why is Turkey propagating the same propaganda as the western media that China is oppressing the Uighurs? China is only cracking down the separatists/terrorists.

You can check the modern entertainment in China, the Uighur celebrities are treating with more respect than the black celebrities in America.

China has a long history of live along side and assimilate the Turkic people. We assimilate them, not conducting the genocide policy like the white men against the Native Americans. When an Amerindian guy said that he wanted to be a good Amerindian guy and converted into Christianity, but the white men told him that only a dead Amerindian is a good Amerindian.

China has offered the Uighur people a lot of choice; they can either keep their own custom or to assimilate into the modern Chinese culture. Many young Uighurs working in the urban areas choose to do so because they could get closer to the inner circle of the Chinese society.

Compare to others, China is absolutely angelic.

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## tesla

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Chinese members here don't buy the western propaganda, but they just hope that Turkey can stop funding our separatism, and stop conspiring with the West on the Xinjiang issue.
> 
> China is always trying hard to befriend with Turkey. Despite Turkey has funded a lot of separatists in Xinjiang, yet China hasn't funded a single Kurdish separatist in Turkey.
> 
> The Uighurs are Chinese, and why they should become independent just because they spoke a Turkic language? There are also many Turkic-speaking people in Russia, so they should all become independent?
> 
> You accuse that the Chinese members are easily buying the western propaganda, yet why is Turkey propagating the same propaganda as the western media that China is oppressing the Uighurs? China is only cracking down the separatists/terrorists.
> 
> You can check the modern entertainment in China, the Uighur celebrities are treating with more respect than the black celebrities in America.
> 
> China has a long history of live along side and assimilate the Turkic people. We assimilate them, not conducting the genocide policy like the white men against the Native Americans. When an Amerindian guy said that he wanted to be a good Amerindian guy and converted into Christianity, but the white men told him that only a dead Amerindian is a good Amerindian.
> 
> China has offered the Uighur people a lot of choice; they can either keep their own custom or to assimilate into the modern Chinese culture. Many young Uighurs working in the urban areas choose to do so because they could get closer to the inner circle of the Chinese society.
> 
> Compare to others, China is absolutely angelic.


explotation,assimilation,ban prayers on uyghurs. etc yes china is angel *with dirty faces *


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## ChineseTiger1986

tesla said:


> explotation,assimilation,ban prayers on uyghurs. etc yes china is angel *with dirty faces *



The peaceful assimilation is billion times better than the genocidal policy.

Many young Uighurs can earn more job opportunities by assimilating into the modern Chinese society, they are willing to do that.

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## Adıvar

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Chinese members here don't buy the western propaganda, but they just hope that Turkey can stop funding our separatism, and stop conspiring with the West on the Xinjiang issue.
> 
> China is always trying hard to befriend with Turkey. Despite Turkey has funded a lot of separatists in Xinjiang, yet China hasn't funded a single Kurdish separatist in Turkey.
> 
> The Uighurs are Chinese, and why they should become independent just because they spoke a Turkic language? There are also many Turkic-speaking people in Russia, so they should all become independent?
> 
> You accuse that the Chinese members are easily buying the western propaganda, yet why is Turkey propagating the same propaganda as the western media that China is oppressing the Uighurs? China is only cracking down the separatists/terrorists.
> 
> You can check the modern entertainment in China, the Uighur celebrities are treating with more respect than the black celebrities in America.
> 
> China has a long history of live along side and assimilate the Turkic people. We assimilate them, not conducting the genocide policy like the white men against the Native Americans. When an Amerindian guy said that he wanted to be a good Amerindian guy and converted into Christianity, but the white men told him that only a dead Amerindian is a good Amerindian.
> 
> China has offered the Uighur people a lot of choice; they can either keep their own custom or to assimilate into the modern Chinese culture. Many young Uighurs working in the urban areas choose to do so because they could get closer to the inner circle of the Chinese society.
> 
> Compare to others, China is absolutely angelic.


I happened to know a Chinese Lady in SZ whose fiance was a soldier serving in Xinjian. She seemed to love him much but did not want to go there, marry and live in there because, she said, conditions were terrible. So, no need to say more.

I said Easterners buy western BS easily because it is the perception of Chinese people that the west is somehow are superior, which i witnessed many times. They would not question the white.
.
I remember Turkish President said Uighurs during his trip to China some time ago, to integrate into society, not seeking for seperate. So I dont think Turkish state supports any terrorism in China because it is irrational to think about such ideas while not being able to help even to the Turkmens who live a few kilometers to the Turkish border.

I also remember Turkey would buy some military equipments from China if not restrained by NATO. 

Real life differs from internet forums...

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## xenon54 out

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Most Chinese members here don't buy the western propaganda, but they just hope that Turkey can stop funding our separatism, and stop conspiring with the West on the Xinjiang issue.
> 
> China is always trying hard to befriend with Turkey. Despite Turkey has funded a lot of separatists in Xinjiang, yet China hasn't funded a single Kurdish separatist in Turkey.
> 
> The Uighurs are Chinese, and why they should become independent just because they spoke a Turkic language? There are also many Turkic-speaking people in Russia, so they should all become independent?
> 
> You accuse that the Chinese members are easily buying the western propaganda, yet why is Turkey propagating the same propaganda as the western media that China is oppressing the Uighurs? China is only cracking down the separatists/terrorists.
> 
> You can check the modern entertainment in China, the Uighur celebrities are treating with more respect than the black celebrities in America.
> 
> China has a long history of live along side and assimilate the Turkic people. We assimilate them, not conducting the genocide policy like the white men against the Native Americans. When an Amerindian guy said that he wanted to be a good Amerindian guy and converted into Christianity, but the white men told him that only a dead Amerindian is a good Amerindian.
> 
> China has offered the Uighur people a lot of choice; they can either keep their own custom or to assimilate into the modern Chinese culture. Many young Uighurs working in the urban areas choose to do so because they could get closer to the inner circle of the Chinese society.
> 
> Compare to others, China is absolutely angelic.


The ''Turkey funding separatism in China'' is your argument to legitimize your hate against Turkey yet you cant proove your claim, it would be a logistical nightmare for Turkey to support separatism in Chinas remote areas without Chinese goverment pereventing it.

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## ChineseTiger1986

Adıvar said:


> I happened to know a Chinese Lady in SZ whose fiance was a soldier serving in Xinjian. She seemed to love him much but did not want to go there, marry and live in there because, she said, conditions were terrible. So, no need to say more.
> 
> I said Easterners buy western BS easily because it is the perception of Chinese people that the west is somehow are superior, which i witnessed many times. They would not question the white.
> .
> I remember Turkish President said Uighurs during his trip to China some time ago, to integrate into society, not seeking for seperate. So I dont think Turkish state supports any terrorism in China because it is irrational to think about such ideas while not being able to help even to the Turkmens who live a few kilometers to the Turkish border.
> 
> I also remember Turkey would buy some military equipments from China if not restrained by NATO.
> 
> Real life differs from internet forums...



The Chinese people don't perceive the whites as superior, but instead I saw a lot of Turkish people who desperately try to convince the white people that they are also whites.

Many Turkish members are constantly making the racial slurs against the Chinese such slanty eyes, chinky face, etc.

But remember, these racial slurs were invented by the white men against the East Asians whom your ancestors also belonged to.

Your ancestors have banged a lot of white women, and now you guys are becoming whiter, but in the eyes of the westerners, you people are still mongrels, and they still view you as some Mongol savages from the steppe.

China is willing to befriend, but Turkey has done too many things that hurt China.

Just look at Assad, he was once your friend as well, but just look the way you people treat him, since he hasn't done anything harmful to you guys.



xenon54 said:


> The ''Turkey funding separatism in China'' is your argument to legitimize your hate against Turkey yet you cant proove your claim, *it would be a logistical nightmare for Turkey to support separatism in Chinas remote areas without Chinese goverment pereventing it.*



You should think what would happen if the Chinese government is starting to sponsor the Kurdistan movement.

China has tons of cash and can fund a lot of rebels in Turkey.

Russia is heavily sanctioned by the West, but with China's support from behind, they can still fund this war in Syria.

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## Adıvar

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Chinese people don't perceive the whites as superior, but instead I saw a lot of Turkish people who desperately try to convince the white people that they are also whites.
> 
> Many Turkish members are constantly making the racial slurs against the Chinese such slanty eyes, chinky face, etc.
> 
> But remember, these racial slurs were invented by the white men against the East Asians whom your ancestors also belonged to.
> 
> Your ancestors has banged a lot of white women, and now you guys are becoming whiter, but in the eyes of the westerners, you people are still mongrels, and they still view you as some Mongol savages from the steppe.
> 
> China is willing to befriend, but Turkey has done too many things that hurt China.
> 
> Just look at Assad, he was once your friend as well, but just look the way you people treat him, since he hasn't done anything harmful to you guys.
> 
> 
> 
> You should think what would happen if the Chinese government is starting to sponsor the Kurdistan movement.
> 
> China has tons of cash and can fund a lot of rebels in Turkey.
> 
> Russia is heavily sanctioned by the West, but with China's support from behind, they can still fund this war in Syria.




The so-called k*rdistan is already supported by the western colonial powers. This is no secret.

If i say " f*ck being white, f*ck the white" would i be breaking the forum rules ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

Adıvar said:


> The so-called k*rdistan is already supported by the western colonial powers. This is no secret.
> 
> If i say " f*ck being white, f*ck the white" would i be breaking the forum rules ?



China's policy is consistent, we are against our domestic separatism, we also won't support other people's domestic separatism.

China is 100% against the double standard policy.

Just because of our consistent policy, you can't just exploit us as our weakness.

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## xenon54 out

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> You should think what would happen if the Chinese government is starting to sponsor the Kurdistan movement.
> 
> China has tons of cash and can fund a lot of rebels in Turkey.
> 
> Russia is heavily sanctioned by the West, but with China's support from behind, they can still fund this war in Syria.


No need to think since Turkey doestn support violance in China.

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## damm1t

Man.. these little dudes are real waste of flesh and bone, let's hope not all of them have same mind set or the world will be doomed sooner or later.


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## matmat26



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## Hack-Hook

Tiqiu said:


> Turkey has been dreaming of joining EU since 1987. They will have to keep dreaming maybe for another 30 years given what currently normal folks in EU thinking of them.
> 
> Read all 960+ comments at today’s UK dailymail website re:EU leaders agree Turkey 2.1 billion help tackle migrant crisis tighten security borders, then you know I am right.
> 
> After going through all comments myself, I can say that fewer than 10 posters are pro-turkey. I highlighted few comments which gained more likes for you to judge. I can’t help but put some Turk posters comments at beginning because their stupidity resembles some Turks at PDF here.
> 
> 
> *One Turk’s rants and look what he got in return:*
> 
> 
> *Omar Habibi, fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
> Your women are ours!! Mwahahahaha.
> 
> ThinkFirst2014 , Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
> Bend over and shove it, troll.
> 
> Jct279, devon, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> I can assure we are not. We like clean healthy respectable men who work not vile dirty creepy fat men
> who stink of spices and look us up and down in slimey manners and believe they can touch us where
> and when ever they want*
> 
> 
> *
> Omar Habibi,Merkel fan Europa is ours, Germany, 3 hours ago
> Europa women love our kebab!
> 
> ThinkFirst2014, Philadelphia, United States, 3 hours ago
> Go take a bath, you filthy pig.
> 
> Intraining22, Offshore, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> Not as much as your goats love it*
> 
> * RealisticOAP, London, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago
> This 'Omar Habibi ' ... If you were a turkey ... there will be an endless queue of us waiting to carve you!*
> 
> 
> *Another Turk dreamer:*
> 
> 
> *Phil Uranus, mesopotamia, United States, 8 hours ago
> When will the EU welcome Turkey as a member?
> 
> Richie Cartmann, Limassol, Cyprus, 8 hours ago
> never ever
> 
> Crossx77, Leicester, United Kingdom, 6 hours ago
> It will never happen in a million years, they would have to change everything about the way of life to be
> able to join which they would never do!*
> 
> 
> *Yet another Turk is still in his wet dream that China and Russia can be fooled into its trick in the future:*
> 
> 
> *Maple for Sanders, SpringfieldMA, United States, 2 hours ago
> Global energy hub, 2025 silk road, friendly and tolerant people, beautiful place, good transport links, rising
> up the table in education and healthcare. It's a no-brainer!! Welcome to the a EU,.Turkey!!*
> 
> 
> 
> *The most rated socalled anti-Turk comments:*
> 
> 
> *Glassowlass12, Glasgow, United Kingdom, 11 hours ago,1865 likes/32 dislikes
> And this money will go to Isis , totally crazy!!!*
> 
> *
> dannyboy, cork, Ireland, 9 hours ago, 1344 likes/11 dislikes
> turkey should have been boycotted instead of being rewarded for their blackmail of europe, allowing boats
> to sail from their territory causing the deaths of many and making it look like europes fault , what is merkel
> thinking ? giving visa free travel to the turks, she is crazy, get ready for health tourism on a massive scale *
> 
> 
> *Hemingway5952, Newcadtle upon Tyne, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,948 likes/8 dislikes
> You simply cannot trust Turkey why oh why do you never listen!*
> 
> 
> *Crying out loud, London, 11 hours ago,855 likes/15 dislikes
> Turkey will fund ISIS!*
> 
> 
> *Walkers Manchester, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,781 likes/6 dislikes
> They really got no idea what they are doing , massive mistake .*
> 
> 
> *pops, gravesend, 9 hours ago, 682 likes/7 dislikes
> Are they out of their tiny minds Turkey can not be trusted never could be and never will be*
> 
> 
> *David J P, London, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 612 Likes/ 9 Dislikes
> Nice compensation for the loss of the oil revenue (alleged) now that Russia has cut off supplies from ISIL*
> 
> 
> *Yorkshirelad123, Huddersfield, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago,319 likes ,2 dislikes
> Why are the governments of the EU riding roughshod over the will of the people? We don't want Turkey in
> the EU or NATO and we certainly don't want to give them any money.*
> 
> 
> *Ew1234, Manchester, United Kingdom, 9 hours ago, 265 likes, 3 dislikes
> What a joke you silly woman, that money is going straight to ISIS you FOOL.*


I'll say the site is in dire need of serious moderation . maybe then the comment reduce to about 50.


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## cabatli_53

Russian economy does its best.


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## Sanchez

cabatli_53 said:


> Russian economy does its best.



Russia looks much better than Turkey anyways...


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## cabatli_53

Sanchez said:


> Russia looks much better than Turkey anyways...



Indeed !


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## cabatli_53

2 Russian AirCraft Has Downed Near Turkey in today !

It is suspected that Turkey's Koral electronic attack system has been activated near borderline !






Suriye sınırında Rusya'ya ait iki uçaktan haber alınamıyor - Dünya Haberleri

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## fox 2

Sanchez said:


> Russia looks much better than Turkey anyways...


Yeah, with largest land and largest energy reserve.


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## cabatli_53



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## FullSerivce

Turkey Offline defeated Russia  left to do the same thing in a real war


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## cabatli_53

NATO agrees to strengthen Turkey's defence against Russia

NATO allies seek to strengthen Turkey's defenses | Reuters


THAAD's are coming ?


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## Malik Alashter

cabatli_53 said:


> 2 Russian AirCraft Has Downed Near Turkey in today !
> 
> It is suspected that Turkey's Koral electronic attack system has been activated near borderline !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Suriye sınırında Rusya'ya ait iki uçaktan haber alınamıyor - Dünya Haberleri


What this thing exactly do?.


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## cabatli_53

Malik Alashter said:


> What this thing exactly do?.

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## Malik Alashter

cabatli_53 said:


>


So in general it is a jamming system? Ok this one is good to jam radar of a fighter but how is that going to down a plane?.


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## Falcon29

Malik Alashter said:


> So in general it is a jamming system? Ok this one is good to jam radar of a fighter but how is that going to down a plane?.



It's to jam missile defense system I believe....


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## Malik Alashter

Falcon29 said:


> It's to jam missile defense system I believe....


I don't think so. to jam such system you have to be in line site with the radar itself I think this system use is to jam the fighter radar or the rwr.


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## Falcon29

Malik Alashter said:


> I don't think so. to jam such system you have to be in line site with the radar itself I think this system use is to jam the fighter radar or the rwr.



I am not familiar with military tech, it is rather complicating how it is done so I can't explain that to you.


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## Azadkashmir

it was planned to get turkey out of nato?


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## cabatli_53

It seems NATO activated Article-5 passsively !

-Spain PAC-3 batteries will remain in Turkey
-NATO discuss deploying more advanced aerial protection system to Turkey.
-USA jets in Incirlik will remain there and the numbers will be increased.
-Britain agreed to send unknown number of fighters to Turkey.
-Germany agreed to send warship to Turkey's Mediterranean coast.
-Denmark agreed to send warship to Turkey's Mediterranean coast.

It is expected contribution of other NATO partners to break Russian military deployment in region...


While Ruski economy sinks, Their military activities are systematically increasing at other regions so Time approaches to hunt more Ruskies...

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## T-123456

cabatli_53 said:


> It seems NATO activated Article-5 passsively !
> 
> -Spain PAC-3 batteries will remain in Turkey
> -NATO discuss deploying more advanced aerial protection system to Turkey.
> -USA jets in Incirlik will remain there and the numbers will be increased.
> *-Britain agreed to send unknown number of fighters to Turkey.
> -Germany agreed to send warship to Turkey's Mediterranean coast.*
> -Denmark agreed to send warship to Turkey's Mediterranean coast.
> 
> It is expected contribution of other NATO partners to break Russian military deployment in region...
> 
> 
> Time approaches to hunt more Ruskies in this region !


Werent they sending these to fight ISIS,instead of ''helping'' Turkiye?


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## cabatli_53

T-123456 said:


> Werent they sending these to fight ISIS,instead of ''helping'' Turkiye?




NATO spokesman directly mentioned Russia bro, not ISIS. He underlined Russian naval activities in Mediterranean so Such desicions are received as a response to their actions in region...

NATO Genel Sekreteri'den önemli açıklamalar - Milliyet Haber

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## bosanski vojnik

Azadkashmir said:


> it was planned to get turkey out of nato?



I think it was a plan by the hidden elite to get Muslim countries into a conflict with Russia.

Turkey is making a big mistake fighting against Russia at the behest of the West (Europeans & Americans). Not long ago these very same countries who are now cheering on Turkey did not even want to hear about them joining the EU or fighting against the kurdish teror groups. They can join the EU and lick the wests boots all day long but a Turk will always be a Turk in their eyes. I am not saying that Russia is entirely clean either but the aircraft shooting down was obviously pre-planned by NATO high command with sinister geo-political intent.


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## Oublious

Malik Alashter said:


> So in general it is a jamming system? Ok this one is good to jam radar of a fighter but how is that going to down a plane?.



You can't put a fighter down, it is blinding a radar and other communication systems. So a fighter would not be able to shoot and cordinate his filight. That goes for cruise missiles and smart bombs. Everything what use radar etc.

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## Azadkashmir

bosanski vojnik said:


> I think it was a plan by the hidden elite to get Muslim countries into a conflict with Russia.
> 
> Turkey is making a big mistake fighting against Russia at the behest of the West (Europeans & Americans). Not long ago these very same countries who are now cheering on Turkey did not even want to hear about them joining the EU or fighting against the kurdish teror groups. They can join the EU and lick the wests boots all day long but a Turk will always be a Turk in their eyes. I am not saying that Russia is entirely clean either but the aircraft shooting down was obviously pre-planned by NATO high command with sinister geo-political intent.




i agree that what i said before here on forum.


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## cnleio



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## DontShootMeBro

Chinagook.

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## Tiqiu

T90 tanks with Shtora -1 countermeasure suite were deployed in Syria.















Vs

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## bsruzm

How is it going trolls? 

*''Putin, citing national security, signs Turkey sanctions decree''*


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## Reashot Xigwin

bsruzm said:


> How is it going trolls?
> 
> *''Putin, citing national security, signs Turkey sanctions decree''*
> View attachment 276489




Seriously though **** these Rusky. You Turks got my support.

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## Kahraman99

No sane person can accuse Turkey of aggresive behavior when preventing russian warcriminals from bombing civilians through turkish airspace.

In den haag helpers of russkies will be charged as warcriminals.

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## 500

Russian ship passing Bosporus. WTF? Bunch of clowns.

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## Cyberian

The World has now listened to ten days of Russian barking, where is World War 3?


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## xenon54 out

500 said:


> Russian ship passing Bosporus. WTF? Bunch of clowns.


Is that the famous S-400 on its way to Syria?


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