# Indian TATA won the tender of 8,000 buses for Karachi city



## HAIDER

KARACHI, April 18: The arrival of the first consignment of 250 buses, out of the 8,000 promised by the city government authorities, has once again hit a delay. It is expected that the consignment, from India, would now be inducted into the cityâs transport fleet by July 2007.

EDO Transport and Communication Mohammad Athar told PPI on Wednesday that a private company had undertaken to bring in the buses by March this year but the delay was caused as the setting up of CNG stations could not materialise and the incentives offered by the federal government were also yet to be finalised. He said that the Sweden Bus Company had inked a deal with the Tata company of India in respect of the 250 CNG buses to be imported in the initial phase. He stated that in the past, the same company had introduced air-conditioned CNG buses in Karachi, but later it wound up its business due to lack of back-up support and provision of spare parts for their buses. This time, their deal with the Indian company includes complete technical back-up and the provision of an assembling plant to be set up in Pakistan.

The EDO said the city government had given two proposals to the federal steering committee concerned about setting up of the CNG stations on the basis of âbuild, operate and transferâ, or allowing the bus companies to have their own CNG stations at their bus depots.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/04/19/local19.htm

The EDO said the governmentâs policy was to promote public-private partnership in the public transport sector. He blamed lack of responsibility, sincerity and dedication for the failure of the defunct Karachi Transport Corporation (KTC). âWe do not want to create another âwhite elephantâ like the KTC, which had been set up with investment of billions of rupees and had to wind it up after borrowing $1.7 billion from the World Bank for golden handshake offered to its employees,â he said.

Meanwhile, sources said that no new bus had been inducted into the Karachi Public Transport Service (KPTS) since 2001. DCO Fazlur Rehman, Chairman of the KPTS, has not called a meeting of its executive and honorary committees for the past three years, they added.âPPI


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## Adux

Nice going Pakistan!!!!!!


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## BATMAN

Another stupid Pakistani foreign purchase.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Neo

Why doesn't Tata set up a local assembly plant for the 8.000 busses?


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## HAIDER

Basically its good will gesture from Pakistan and plus it was lowest bid in tender. Best CNG buses are produce in Iran. India recently started CNG buses and non in Pakistan and its biggest foreign order in TATA history. Let see how the capture the market and what will happened in after sales service. And when TATA establish plant in Karachi.


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## Neo

After Brasil, Pakistan iss the second largest CNG user, I have no doubt the sceme would be a success.
Considering the size of the order I would have gone for a local assembly to give a boost to our manufacturing industry.
I don't understand our politicians...


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## HAIDER

Real truth behind is, TAta being trying for many years to set up industry in Pakistan to cover middle east and central aisa. Without establishing in Pakistan, whateva India produce, still stuck in local market. And local market has limit to absorb goods,machines and services.


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## Adux

OOOOh lucky Tata's, They were desperate stupid people and Pakistan did favour...

Lets put it this way;

Pakistan made the right business choice. Tata's made profit and Pakistani Transport was happy. You just cant say that can you.

Neo,

8000 buses's is a small number to set up, Air-conditioned buses are different; they are totally factory built unlike the chasis only trucks where you can built the body..


And Haider please go read about TATA's international profile, they even own Daewoo heavy Vehicles of Korea. They are already present in Middle east, Africa, South America and Europe. Pakistan is a big market, if tata's get through it is a good business oppertunity, its a good for pakistani consumers to get cheap, reliable and quality vehicles. But by no means Pakistan is linked to the middle east and Central Asia. They are already their. 

Haider, Afghanistan is filled with TATA and Ashok Leyland Trucks; How did they get there?


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## Interceptor

Neo said:


> After Brasil, Pakistan iss the second largest CNG user, I have no doubt the sceme would be a success.
> Considering the size of the order I would have gone for a local assembly to give a boost to our manufacturing industry.
> I don't understand our politicians...



Yep like Neo said Pakistan has good interest in CNG technology. 

http://www.engineeringpakistan.com/EngPak1/final PDF CNG Buses.pdf

This is pdf shows the types of CNG buses available locally there is mix origin of buses.


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## HAIDER

All donated buses from India for Aganistan are still parked on border and catching rust..
In middle east only TATA buses can be found in Dubai, has nothing in their just loading and unloading labour. Daweoo products sucks anyway, big failure in Pakistan and even US. Only TATA is getting is nissan motors model. Made by Nissan and logo by TATA. Same in Pakistan, whateva we call suzuki or honda..but still origin and parts from Japan.


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## Adux

Parked in which border?Google up bander abbas...Haider, You will get your answer how they get there.
And you have no clue. so read up kid


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## HAIDER

Its matter of logistics and market. Those afgan buses still parked in Pak border, dryport. Every indian good deliver to afganistan through Pakistan. Its matter of commonsense, why India will go all the way to bandar abbas and make delivery to Afganistan. India is basically a land locked country, and it need passage through Pakistan to make fast delivery to Russia and Central europe or even europe. Instead loading goods of ship takes forever. Clearing and forwarding takes ages.

Indian TATA bus








Some Pakistan made buses











CNG Bus


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## HAIDER

25 buses flagged off for Afghanistan
Our Correspondent

Wagah (Amritsar), December 29
A convoy of 25 buses was flagged off from the border joint checkpost here today for war-torn Afghanistan as a New Year gift.

With this, Afghanistan has received 75 buses in three consignments as a goodwill gesture from India.

Twentyfive drivers, three engineers and six transport officials from Afghanistan accompanied the buses on their 1,400-km long journey through Lahore, Peshawar, Jalalabad to the Chaman border between Pakistan and Afghanistan before proceeding on to Kabul.

Mohammed Samim Hamraz, Second Secretary, Embassy of Afghanistan in Pakistan, received the buses from the Pakistan side of the Wagah border. Mr Abdul Hafiz Karmai, president, supplies and procurement, Ministry of Transport, Afghanistan, and his deputy Mr Abdul Khaliq accompanied the buses.

Mr Hamraz said Afghanistan would remain grateful to India for this gesture. About repairs and reconstruction of gurdwaras in Pakistan, he said talks had been held with the SGPC which had assured all support in this connection. &#8220;India and Afghanistan have been allies and shared common ties since time of the Mughals. These would be sustained by Afghani people,&#8221; he added while confirming that Afghani Sikhs have returned to their homeland.

Afghanistan needed at least 1500 buses to create complete transport facilities as rail lines were non-existent there.

The toughest model with left-hand drive, 55 seats, pressure doors and barred windows for rough roads have been provided to the Afghanistan Government.

As many as 425 remaining buses would be delivered to the Afghanistan Government with next consignments, said Mr Nand Kishore Luthra, representative of Telco in Afghanistan.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20021230/punjab1.htm

*what u think now....u ready to deliver 75 buses through Iran to Afganistan...*..? 
*Correction: TATA has bought Daweoo trucking company, not whole Daweoo company.*


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## Bushroda

How convineant for some people to pick up an old 1970s model of a buses to make themselves feel good. 

Here are some models of TATA buses. If anybody doubts TATA logo is clearly visible.



Another one



yet another one



Here is TATA's low-floor BEST buses used as public transport in Mumbai



Tata's low floor buses for Delhi public transport


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## genmirajborgza786

Neo said:


> Why doesn't Tata set up a local assembly plant for the 8.000 busses?





i agree & Pakistan needs settings up plant,s & industries as much as possible it will help Pakistan become more self reliant this is one place where i really dont understand why is P.M shaukat aziz not industrializing the country be it TATA or any other company they can set up plants we can get more industries plus the gain of know how not only in this but many others fields as well will be beneficial to Pakistan only.


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## Interceptor

genmirajborgza786 said:


> i agree & Pakistan needs settings up plant,s & industries as much as possible it will help Pakistan become more self reliant this is one place where i really dont understand why is P.M shaukat aziz not industrializing the country be it TATA or any other company they can set up plants its we can get more industries plus the gain of know how not only in this but many others fields as well will be beneficial to Pakistan only.



They already have that.


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## Awesome

The purchase makes no sense, a goodwill gesture or as you say it, TATA has bought off the Daewoo wing that built busses. Daewoo was an established company within Pakistan. They run a pretty good network within Lahore already and a lot of inter-city routes.


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## HAIDER

Daweoo sold the shares not the ownership of that segment. (above few buses are for Indian airports, not for dehli roads).

*Pak plant assembles Tata Daewoo trucks *Mumbai Jan 19 Tata Motors has entered Pakistan through its 100 per cent South Korean subsidiary, Tata Daewoo Commercial Vehicles Ltd (TDCV). 

A plant for assembling heavy-duty trucks was commissioned in Karachi by Afzal Motors of Pakistan, in technical collaboration with TDCV. 

The Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr Shaukat Aziz, inaugurated the plant on Friday in the presence of senior management of TDCV and Afzal Motors, according to a Tata Motors release. 

The plant, which has a production capacity of 3,000 vehicles a year, will assemble TDCV trucks and buses from Daewoo Bus Company. 

The truck range comprises 4x2 and 6x4 tractor-trailers powered by 300 hp diesel engines that would be an industry first in that country. 

The sourcing of CKD sets of TDCV trucks has already begun. 

In 2005-06, TDCV posted a turnover of Rs 1,584 crore, notching a growth of 34.5 per cent, while net profit was at Rs 58 crore, recording 160 per cent year-on-year increase. 

In 2007-08, TDCV, the second largest truck manufacturer in South Korea, expects to garner 30 per cent market share of the current 1,600-2,000 units sold annually in the heavy commercial vehicles market in Pakistan, the release added. 

Speaking on the occasion, Mr Aziz said that the tie-up between an international manufacturer like TDCV and Afzal Motors would boost the efficiency of the transportation sector of the country.
http://www.blonnet.com/2007/01/20/stories/2007012006070100.htm


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## Awesome

My school busses were Tata. They were horrible  Not as good as the Daewoo busses or the Tata ones posted in this thread.

I hope Tata Daewoo supplies the same busses Daewoo supplied. I used the a coupla times. It's like going on a plane. It's got a hostess too!


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## Bushroda

HAIDER said:


> (above few buses are for Indian airports, not for dehli roads).









Here is the same bus. You can clearly see the Delhi Public Transport Corporation's logo.






If still in doubt, here is the DTC website
http://dtc.nic.in/

Buses for Indian airports carry Airport Authority of India(AAI) logo and not public transport logos. These are the new buses introduced by DTC to replace their old fleet of buses. By 2009, all DTC buses would be replaced by these buses.


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## Bushroda

HAIDER said:


> Daweoo sold the shares not the ownership of that segment.



Tata actually bought over Daewoo Motor's truck manufacturing unit in 2004. Tata holds the control over the management. The company is now referred as Tata Daewoo Commercial vehicle(TDVC).

http://www.tata-daewoo.com/ver3/intro.html


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## Moin91

Asim Aquil said:


> My school busses were Tata. They were horrible  Not as good as the Daewoo busses or the Tata ones posted in this thread.
> 
> I hope Tata Daewoo supplies the same busses Daewoo supplied. I used the a coupla times. It's like going on a plane. It's got a hostess too!



App konsay school main parhtahy thay ?


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## Awesome

A school in Dubai.


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## Contrarian

HAIDER said:


> Daweoo sold the shares not the ownership of that segment. (above few buses are for Indian airports, not for dehli roads).



I live in Delhi. They are run on Delhi roads as well. The low floor, high capacity buses.


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## Skull-Buster

yaar seriously, the Daewoo buses in Pakistan are way better than TATA. heck even the Pindi - Karachi air conditiones local buses are better. but the new buses provided by TATA to delhi transport corporation were good, altho i have been on better buses than them in Karachi.

On a separate note, most of the transport buses on the streets of delhia are not DTC buses but private ones, which are in an awful condition. i seriously think indian govt shud think of replacing those buses with something better.


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## Adux

I am still wondering if there is anything good in India, there seems to a " better everything" in pakistan


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## Skull-Buster

lol...after reading your post i seriously started thinking abt anything better in india, but sorry nothing comes to my mind at the moment.....maybe veggie food....


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## Adux

I am sure you are right, Not even veggie food....lol
Sad


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## Skull-Buster

i never ate veggie food in Pakistan, never HAD to eat it, so cant compare....but chholey baturey in india were quite nice.


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## Adux

Pakistan Zindabad!!!!!!!!


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## Bushroda

Skull-Buster said:


> yaar seriously, the Daewoo buses in Pakistan are way better than TATA. heck even the Pindi - Karachi air conditiones local buses are better.



You are comparing inter-city delux buses with city transport buses. These kinda delux & semi-delux buses operate in India too.

http://www.southdelhitravel.com/manali-hotels.html




Skull-Buster said:


> On a separate note, most of the transport buses on the streets of delhia are not DTC buses but private ones, which are in an awful condition. i seriously think indian govt shud think of replacing those buses with something better.



DTC along with BlueLine Transport Corporation accounts for 97% of bus traffic in Delhi. Moreover, any private operator has to get permit from Delhi's State Transport Authority before it can start the service. State Transport Authority has already issued directive to all the operators to change their buses to low-floor high capacity buses which has been challenged in Supreme court at the moment.

http://www.hindu.com/2007/05/17/stories/2007051711810400.htm

DTC is planning to replace all its buses with low floor high capacity Tata buses by 2010 before the start of Commonwealth games.

http://auto.indiatimes.com/quickies/1950671.cms

http://imageshack.us

http://imageshack.us

http://imageshack.us

http://imageshack.us


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## Contrarian

Skull-Buster said:


> On a separate note, most of the transport buses on the streets of delhia are not DTC buses but private ones, which are in an awful condition. i seriously think indian govt shud think of replacing those buses with something better.



Its mostly DTC buses now, Metro has changed a lot on the transport scene in Delhi.


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## Skull-Buster

malaymishra123 said:


> Its mostly DTC buses now, Metro has changed a lot on the transport scene in Delhi.



yaar i was in delhi last december, and the majority of buses on the streets were the private owned ones (green on top and yellow at the bottom). the new DTC buses have started to come in, they are quite good, but it will take time to replace the old fleet. but slowly buses will be less important in delhi as the metro is spreading to alot of parts of the city.


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## Skull-Buster

Bushroda said:


> You are comparing inter-city delux buses with city transport buses. These kinda delux & semi-delux buses operate in India too.
> 
> [/IMG][/URL]



no i was comparing the air conditioned transport buses of Karachi with the new TATA buses. 

i have been on the deluxe inter city buses in india too, from delhi to amritsar.


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## Bushroda

Skull-Buster said:


> no i was comparing the air conditioned transport buses of Karachi with the new TATA buses.



Thats a different play altogether. Most of public transport buses would be non-AC. DTC is in the process of introducing 25 AC buses in the first phase. This is the model of the Tata's AC bus.

http://imageshack.us


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## HAIDER

Adux zindabad......lolzz
Let's see what TATA send Karachi...


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## Awesome

For god sakes they are busses! One dabba is like the other dabba. It should have ACs in them and the seats should be comfortable, leg room.


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## Bushroda

Even at a conservative rate of Rs.1million per Bus($25000). 8000 buses would cost around over $200 million. Damn good business TATA made


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## Contrarian

Skull-Buster said:


> yaar i was in delhi last december, and the majority of buses on the streets were the private owned ones (green on top and yellow at the bottom). the new DTC buses have started to come in, they are quite good, but it will take time to replace the old fleet. but slowly buses will be less important in delhi as the metro is spreading to alot of parts of the city.



Yeah, the old buses are being phased out, plus in most of the routes that Metro plies, the number of buses operating on that route drops down drastically. Most of the buses on those routes stop generating enough revenue. 

And now the Metro is going to Gurgaon, Noida, etc, etc. Apart from covering almost all of Delhi.
All will be done in time for the Commonwealth Games.


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## Bull

I aint a fan of TATA buses, they are cheap cost wise and quality wise.


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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> For god sakes they are busses! One dabba is like the other dabba. It should have ACs in them and the seats should be comfortable, leg room.



And who will pay for the services? Its for basic transport, meant for jampacking people. Just for taking people from one point to another point. TATA can provide only that. Anything more than that best Indian bet is Ashok Leyland not the TATAs.


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## Shehz

The Pakistani brand of 'Bedford' is British Leyland.
The investor's in Pakistan are permitted to keep their original name.

Back to TATA buses, Rs. 10 Lacs for an airconditioned bus, that's a heck of a deal.
Even the Suzuki car (Maruti) costs more than that.

Hope TATA does a decent job, that'll ensure more TATA's plying in other cities as well.


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## MirBadshah

Shehz,

Suzuki APV costs 10,65000 in Pakistan this buss will be cheaper the Suzuki, but question is thats crude technology decades old and emission level from such technology is quite high, on one side we are converting our transport on CNG and Pakistani manufecturers are producing CNG busses on otherside we are buying TATA, this whole thing dont make much sense, I think there must be a study of enviornmental impect of these busses.

Espacially if the elevated express way project in Karachi is materialise these busses will become a health hazerd, price is secondry thing, government have to make sure that they dont buy substanderd stuff with public funds only because its cheap.


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## Shehz

We are thinking 10 Lacs per bus my friend, and that's why it's Karachi specific only.
Once internal rail network, and metro has been completed, Karachi mayor will either retire the busses, or donate them: evenly distributed throughout urban Sindh.

Mir, it's only a short term plan (untill Hino starts mass production of the CNG buses) to cover the shortfall. After all, Karachi is the 8th largest city on the globe, Karachiites need transportation.


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## BATMAN

> 8000 buses would cost around over $200 million


What is wrong with Mayor of Karachi.
Two years ago, I have seen under the hood of small TATA car, it appeard to me a prototype built in some garage.


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## Shehz

Nothing is wrong, 10 lacs per bus, that's the cheapest price you can get an airconditioned bus for, and it may be buil by TATA, do keep in mind that it's still a Daewoo.

Karachi is a bustling city of over 15 Million increasing nearly at the rate of 5% (10 Mil in 1999).
42% needs public transport, even 8000 buses are not enough.


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## Neo

Add another 5 million to that figure...yes Karachi's population has exceeded the 20 million mark according to the latest report.
Read my post about global urbanisation.


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## BATMAN

Shehz said:


> Nothing is wrong, 10 lacs per bus, that's the cheapest price you can get an airconditioned bus for, and it may be buil by TATA, do keep in mind that it's still a Daewoo.
> 
> Karachi is a bustling city of over 15 Million increasing nearly at the rate of 5% (10 Mil in 1999).
> 42% needs public transport, even 8000 buses are not enough.



No it will have nothing of Daewoo and the point is not the need or the price. Why to strengthen the economy of India.
Indians living out of India always buy from Indian shops, always eat from Indian restaurant they take inssurance from a company which hire Indian, they will only go to Indian barber they even buy air tickets from Indian travell agent and I see it every day all aroud me.
Any way, I believe its better to pay 11 lack rather than buying Indian bus.
Do you know Iran make very good CNG buses.
http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cngmainlb9.jpg
http://www.ikco.com/products/cng.aspx


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## Bushroda

A prepostorous & pureille assumption that Tata's technology is crude & will result in higher higher CO emission level. It is just that '*I believe what I want to believe. So, if I believe that Avalon exists it does for me*'.

Take a dip in reality & see what Tata can do to control carbon emission on your beautiful Pakistani Highways.


> *Tata Motors' City Cat, First Commercial Car to be Powered by Compressed Air*
> 
> Nope, we're not going to Hollywood to check out the latest actress, ahem, "enhancement." Instead, let's take a short trip across the Pacific over to India where Tata Motors has announced that the City Cat, the first commercial car to be powered by compressed air, is nearly ready for production.
> 
> While other vehicles may need gasoline, diesel, or bioethanol, the Tata Motors City Cat gets its grunt from the compressed air it receives from "air stations." Alternatively, you can leave the City Cat plugged in overnight for refueling via a built-in compressor. The kei car-style vehicle won't win any races with a top speed of 68mph, but its 125 mile range is more than adequate for most city dwellers.
> 
> A hybrid version that compresses air as the car runs is also reportedly in the works. No word on pricing.
> 
> http://imageshack.us
> 
> http://imageshack.us


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## Shehz

Compressed Air?
Just wondering what the exhaust will sound like.


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## Awesome

Doesn't Tata simply copy a lot of foreign designs?

I can see the Merc Smart Car up there in those pictures. But unlike this car the Smart Car is FAST... It's barely TWO seats...


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## Bull

Asim Aquil said:


> Doesn't Tata simply copy a lot of foreign designs?



Which model are you referring to. They still doesnt even have one single model that can be called int'l design...they still have those decades old styling.


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## Bull

The Prime Minister of Pakistan, Mr Shaukat Aziz inaugurated the new Truck & Bus assembly plant of Afzal Motors in Karachi on Jan 8th, 2007 in the presence of senior government officials , President of Daewoo Bus Company and President of Tata Daewoo , Mr Kwang ok Chae , along with other senior management members of the company . The Prime Minister expressed happiness on the tie up with a global player like Tata Daewoo and the prospects of technology transfer to boost the efficiency of the tansportation sector in Pakistan.

Speaking on the occasion, President Kwang ok Chae congratulated Afzal Motors for their efforts.

Tata Daewoo , Korea, a 100% subsidiary company of Tata Motors, signed a Technical Assistance Agreement ( TAA ) with Afzal Motors, Pakistan to assemble and sell heavy duty trucks in Pakistan , in December, 2005. 
The plant will be assembling heavy duty Tata Daewoo trucks and buses from Daewoo Bus Company of Korea and has a capacity to produce 3000 vehicles a year. 

Afzal Motors has imported 144 KD sets of truck for assembly and sale in Pakistan , till December 2006. It plans to import 240 KD truck sets for the year 2006- 07 . The number is expected to go up to 400 units in 07-08 , thus meeting the target of 30% market share in the domestic market of Pakistan.


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## Bull




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## Bull




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## Bull




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## Bull




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## Bull




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## Bull




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## Bull




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## Bull

*HISPANO begins to deliver urban buses to Casablanca(Morocco)*

Mumbai, April 11, 2006: Hispano Maghreb, the fully-owned subsidiary of Hispano Carrocera, has begun to deliver urban buses to CasablancaÂ¡Â¯s urban transport operator, MÂ¡Â¯Dina Bus. The company had bagged its largest-ever single contract to supply 800 urban buses to MÂ¡Â¯Dina Bus in July 2005. Tata Motors Limited has a 21% stake in Hispano Carrocera.

The contract is part of a massive renovation project of public transport in Casablanca. During the course of 2006, Hispano will deliver 200 buses, and the remaining numbers will be delivered over a period of three years. The first ten buses were presented to MÂ¡Â¯Dina Bus at a ceremony in Casablanca, in the presence of Mohammed Kabbaj, Wali de Grand Casablanca, and the Mohamed Sajid, President of the Casablanca Urban Community. 

These buses will be HispanoÂ¡Â¯s Habit buses, 12 metres in length, built on Iveco chassis, which Hispano has been using regularly.

Since its establishment in September 2000, Hispano Maghreb, has rapidly become the dominant bodybuilder of luxury buses and coaches in Morocco. The most important transport operators in the country today trust Hispano. Alsa Group in Marrakech and the Ruiz Group in Tangeirs are its best Citybus customers, while CTM Group, Atlas Rider, Satas and Supratours, are loyal customers for luxury tourist coaches.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

HAIDER said:


> Its matter of logistics and market. Those afgan buses still parked in Pak border, dryport. Every indian good deliver to afganistan through Pakistan. Its matter of commonsense, why India will go all the way to bandar abbas and make delivery to Afganistan. India is basically a land locked country, and it need passage through Pakistan to make fast delivery to Russia and Central europe or even europe. Instead loading goods of ship takes forever. Clearing and forwarding takes ages.
> 
> Indian TATA bus
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some Pakistan made buses
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CNG Bus



Hino is a Japanese company.


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## s90

Why import when these buses can be locally made?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

SinoIndusFriendship said:


> Hino is a Japanese company.



Yes, but they have a subsidiary in Pakistan (Hinopak it used to be called, IIRC) and they manufacture/assemble buses/trucks in Pakistan.


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## SinoIndusFriendship

s90 said:


> Why import when these buses can be locally made?



Did somebody get kickbacks? That's the only valid explanation that comes to mind. Bribery/Kickbacks.


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## Coolyo

Idiotic government!

Stop funding the enemy, we are only screwing ourselves over!

Support Pakistan`s industry, not India`s!


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## SQ8

Asim Aquil said:


> Doesn't Tata simply copy a lot of foreign designs?
> 
> I can see the Merc Smart Car up there in those pictures. *But unlike this car the Smart Car is FAST... It's barely TWO seats...*
> 
> 
> Yup.. but you can stick your nose into the City cats exhaust and not end up with CO2 poisoning.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## rhythm_guy

howz this possible r they gonna mad ,,,,how they can do business with enemy countries like pakistan...... Indian Gov should pressuries TAtA to cancel all deals with enemy nations

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Captain03

yea, go ahead and buy buses from the country that's always trying to create hell for u
good job idiots
y not make ur own


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## Machoman

I think those buses are too low not going to work on Pak streets. 2 din may khatam ho jai gee our roads are special roads. They better cancel this order for sure. Unless Tata make buses little high from ground.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

rhythm_guy said:


> howz this possible r they gonna mad ,,,,how they can do business with enemy countries like pakistan...... Indian Gov should pressuries TAtA to cancel all deals with enemy nations




While the post itself is amusing, what I am actually laughing about is that someone with the nick '*peace_maker*' thanked it!

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## boxer_B

rhythm_guy said:


> howz this possible r they gonna mad ,,,,how they can do business with enemy countries like pakistan...... Indian Gov should pressuries TAtA to cancel all deals with enemy nations



Good, you can start with yourself by leaving  

Sorry, no pun intended


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## Tefal

rhythm_guy said:


> howz this possible r they gonna mad ,,,,how they can do business with enemy countries like pakistan...... Indian Gov should pressuries TAtA to cancel all deals with enemy nations



yes i agree with u. tata bastard gone mad doing business with pakistan. indian govt should seize his asset.


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## wtf

Tefal said:


> yes i agree with u. tata bastard gone mad doing business with pakistan. indian govt should seize his asset.



Huh ? 

Tata group existed before Indian government did. They had been doing business with what is now Pakistan for hundreds of years. They have set a standard for ethical business and patriotism through the independence struggle and after that -- I don't think anyone can question their essential morality.

What right does Indian government have to seize assets of companies anyway ? Indira Gandhi is long dead and gone (thank goodness) and the right to property (that she took away from constitution in 1978) will probably be added back to constitution soon. If Indian government does not like anyone trading with Pakistan, they should bring a law that says so.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## wtf

Sir Ratan Tata and Mahatma Gandhi: Rediff.com news

I_n all humility I may say that I have come here also as a friend of the capitalists -- a friend of the Tatas. And here it would be ungrateful on my part, if I do not give you a little anecdote about how my connection with the Tatas began. In South Africa when I was struggling along with the Indians in the attempt to retain our self-respect and to vindicate our status it was Sir Ratan Tata who first came forward with assistance.' _--* Extract from Mahatma Gandhi's speech delivered at Jamshedpur on August 8, 1925.*


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## aimarraul

tata is indian's proud.its hand has already reached into China's industry,chinese govt should take this situation seriously . it is a "military company" like Huawei


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## indiatech

next. CNG, TATA Nano


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## idune

TATA auto and transport products are very low quality and crap. We have seen that in Bangladesh. These TATA products will be shiny but after one year of use you will see there will be nothing left in these buses to operate.

Compare to TATA, Ashok Leyland, another indian company make little better product but not whole lot.

Another word TATA may be lowest bidder but at the end Pakistan have to pay two three times more for its transport. Because, after one or two years TATA bus will be inoperable and Pakistan has to spend money to buy new ones.


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## Jako

idune said:


> TATA auto and transport products are very low quality and crap. We have seen that in Bangladesh. These TATA products will be shiny but after one year of use you will see there will be nothing left in these buses to operate.
> 
> Compare to TATA, Ashok Leyland, another indian company make little better product but not whole lot.
> 
> Another word TATA may be lowest bidder but at the end Pakistan have to pay two three times more for its transport. Because, after one or two years TATA bus will be inoperable and Pakistan has to spend money to buy new ones.



are you a bus driver???.....lolz.......the tata-s are world class vehicle manufacturers,they are known and praised world wide...,...too bad,you have to foul moth them for shear jealousy and blind hatred.........

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## ajpirzada

this thread goes back to 2007. does anyone know wat happened with these buses which were supposed to arrive in july 2007?


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## paritosh

idune said:


> TATA auto and transport products are very low quality and crap. We have seen that in Bangladesh. These TATA products will be shiny but after one year of use you will see there will be nothing left in these buses to operate.
> 
> Compare to TATA, Ashok Leyland, another indian company make little better product but not whole lot.
> 
> Another word TATA may be lowest bidder but at the end Pakistan have to pay two three times more for its transport. Because, after one or two years TATA bus will be inoperable and Pakistan has to spend money to buy new ones.



which TATA product have you driven?
TATA cars sell in Europe...TATA owns jaguar and land rover...one of the biggest car manufacturers...but it's indian so you wont buy it.


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## Choppers

Some TATA buses operating in India.




Tata MarcoPolo released this low-floor bus in India and now it is widely used as public transport in Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore.








Tata 1616 Starbus (Mumbai)



Tata StarBus in Nagpur, Maharashtra.

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## ajpirzada

the gud thing is not how they look but that you guys make them urself.


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## Jako

Umm......india makes them at home and they are tata products......if you threw your post at india,that is


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## ajpirzada

ya it was intended towards india


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## smart_simple

idune said:


> TATA auto and transport products are very low quality and crap. We have seen that in Bangladesh. These TATA products will be shiny but after one year of use you will see there will be nothing left in these buses to operate.
> 
> Compare to TATA, Ashok Leyland, another indian company make little better product but not whole lot.
> 
> Another word TATA may be lowest bidder but at the end Pakistan have to pay two three times more for its transport. Because, after one or two years TATA bus will be inoperable and Pakistan has to spend money to buy new ones.




check UR word man, TATA is one of the leading motor company in the world

tata bus
--------

macropolo
















executive
















police bus

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## idune

Jako said:


> are you a bus driver???.....lolz.......the tata-s are world class vehicle manufacturers,they are known and praised world wide...,...too bad,you have to foul moth them for shear jealousy and blind hatred.........




It is disappointing, after practice writing in this forum for last few months you still can not write full sentence. 

"World class" in indian standard but in the world standard TATA will fare as junk quality. Rather than hype something that is not in quality try to work on it. You may go somewhere some day.


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## Jako

idune said:


> It is disappointing, after practice writing in this forum for last few months you still can not write full sentence.
> 
> "World class" in indian standard but in the world standard TATA will fare as junk quality. Rather than hype something that is not in quality try to work on it. You may go somewhere some day.


read your first sentence......does that make any sense!!?? 
what other buses have you seen except tata or ashok-leyland???.........your blabbering against the tatas sound insane.........the company owns the jaguar-landrover brand and is praised world wide............have you seen anything better than the tatas in bd or south-asia............the authorities of karachi reportedly opened the tender,coz of the low quality buses supplied by the chinese!


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## forcetrip

I like that tata nano .. Looks good .. Hope it sees build soon.

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## Jako

forcetrip said:


> I like that tata nano .. Looks good .. Hope it sees build soon.



i think they took bookings in january or so.......and all were booked in 1 week ........the basic model costs Rs 1.25 lakhs


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## Hasnain2009

Jako said:


> i think they took bookings in january or so.......and all were booked in 1 week ........the basic model costs *Rs 1.25 lakhs*



What is the price of Hyundai Santro and Suzuki Alto in india??


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## Tefal

Suzuki alto is between 2.5 to 3 lacs rupees approx. and Santro from 2.5 to 3.5 lacs depend on trim. Rest u can seee maruti website or hyundai india website.wat is the price in pak?

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## Jako

Hasnain2009 said:


> What is the price of Hyundai Santro and Suzuki Alto in india??



santro xing-3.48 to 4.4 lakhs(depending on variants).....maruti-suzuki alto-2.45 to 3.02 lakhs

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## Jako

Hey tefal santro xing costs >3.5 ,i rechecked buddy.......i was amazed by seeing your post regarding the price!


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## Tefal

Jako said:


> Hey tefal santro xing costs >3.5 ,i rechecked buddy.......i was amazed by seeing your post regarding the price!



thanks for update


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## Hasnain2009

Tefal said:


> Suzuki alto is between 2.5 to 3 lacs rupees approx. and Santro from 2.5 to 3.5 lacs depend on trim. Rest u can seee maruti website or hyundai india website.wat is the price in pak?





Jako said:


> Hey tefal santro xing costs >3.5 ,i rechecked buddy.......i was amazed by seeing your post regarding the price!



Thanks guys!

In pak!


Santro Rs. 869,000

Alto Rs. 637,000

Mehran (CNG) Rs. 525,000


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## Hasnain2009

In India

Honda Civic 1.8 (E) MT RS. 999,900 

In Pakistan

Civic VTi Oriel Manual Transmission Rs. 1,723,500


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## Choppers

> In pak!
> Santro Rs. 869,000
> Alto Rs. 637,000
> Mehran (CNG) Rs. 525,000



Are These Cars Manufactured in Pakistan or from which country they are imported.


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## Jako

Hasnain2009 said:


> In India
> 
> Honda Civic 1.8 (E) MT RS. 999,900
> 
> In Pakistan
> 
> Civic VTi Oriel Manual Transmission Rs. 1,723,500



hi,i think here you must take the value of indian and pakistani currency into account.......the dollar value or the international price of the cars may be equal ,i think


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## Jako

Choppers said:


> Are These Cars Manufactured in Pakistan or from which country they are imported.



yes good point,imported cars do have a higher price than home made ones


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## Hasnain2009

Jako said:


> hi,i think here you must take the value of indian and pakistani currency into account.......the dollar value or the international price of the cars may be equal ,i think




Ok, lets compare price Honda of Civic

1 USD = 47.7 INR

999 900 Indian rupees = 20 944.9053 U.S. dollars

1USD = 80PKR

1 723 500 Pakistan rupees = 21543.75 U.S. dollars


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## Tefal

Hasnain2009 said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> In pak!
> 
> 
> Santro Rs. 869,000
> 
> Alto Rs. 637,000
> 
> Mehran (CNG) Rs. 525,000




Wat is the price for 1 litre of petrol and diesel. I have heard Pak govt has increased the price by 10 rupees . Is that correct???? Than wat is the price now?


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## wtf

Hasnain2009 said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> In pak!
> 
> 
> Santro Rs. 869,000
> 
> Alto Rs. 637,000
> 
> Mehran (CNG) Rs. 525,000



Why so expensive? Indian Rupee is about 1.7 times Pak rupee. 
Converting, 
Santro = 511,000 INR (Car price in India is about 3.5 lakhs)
Alto = 374,000 INR (Costs starting about 2.5 Lakhs)
Mehran = 308,000 INR (Costs 2 Lakhs)

Every car seems 50% more expensive in Pakistan as compared to India. Is there a tax reason ?


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## Jako

Hasnain2009 said:


> Ok, lets compare price Honda of Civic
> 
> 1 USD = 47.7 INR
> 
> 999 900 Indian rupees = 20 944.9053 U.S. dollars
> 
> 1USD = 80PKR
> 
> 1 723 500 Pakistan rupees = 21543.75 U.S. dollars



are the cars manufactured in pak?


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## Hasnain2009

Tefal said:


> Wat is the price for 1 litre of petrol and diesel. I have heard Pak govt has increased the price by 10 rupees . Is that correct???? Than wat is the price now?



For petrol It was PKR 57/litre, i dont know if they have increased prices!




Jako said:


> are the cars manufactured in pak?



Dont know!


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## Tefal

Jako said:


> are the cars manufactured in pak?



I think suzuki and Hyundai is manifactured in Pak not sure of honda or toyota may be some pak friends put some light on this.


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## Hasnain2009

Updated Price List!

Price List - PakWheels

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## Tefal

Hasnain2009 said:


> Updated Price List!
> 
> Price List - PakWheels



Surprise to seee the list . Indian market was closed till 1995 for foriegn car(execpt suzuki which came in 1984). Till 1995 we had only fiat and ambassdor . We don't really know wat is honda,toyota,nissan,hyundai etc . But pakistan has been open since her indepence than also India has more foriegn car manufacturer and models than pakistan.


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## NSG_BlackCats

Tefal said:


> I think suzuki and Hyundai is manifactured in Pak not sure of honda or toyota may be some pak friends put some light on this.



There is no manufacturing plant of Hyundai in Pakistan. I am not sure about Suzuki. Hyundai manufacture it's now very popular i10 and i20 only in India at it's manufacturing hub at chennai. Santro too is manufactured in India.


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## glomex

Tefal said:


> Surprise to seee the list . Indian market was closed till 1995 for foriegn car(execpt suzuki which came in 1984). Till 1995 we had only fiat and ambassdor . We don't really know wat is honda,toyota,nissan,hyundai etc . But pakistan has been open since her indepence than also India has more foriegn car manufacturer and models than pakistan.



Correction 

Maruti Suzuki Began Production in 1983........


Timeline of Indian automobile industry:

1897 First Person to own a car in India - Mr Foster of M/s Crompton Greaves Company, Mumbai
1901 First Indian to own a car in India - Jamsetji Tata
1905 First Woman to drive a car in India - Mrs. Suzanne RD Tata
1905 Fiat Motors
1911 First Taxi in India
1924 Formation of traffic police
1928 Chevrolet Motors
1942 Hindustan Motors
1944 Premier Auto Limited
1945 Tata Motors
1947 Mahindra Motors
1948 Ashok Motors
1948 Standard Motors
1974 Sipani Motors
1981 Maruti Suzuki
1994 Rover Motors
1994 Mercedes Benz
1994 Opel
1995 Ford Motors
1995 Honda SIEL
1995 Reva Electric Car Company
1995 Daewoo Motors
1996 Hyundai Motor Company
1997 Toyota Kirloskar Motors
1997 Fiat Motors (Re-Entry)
1998 San Motors
1998 Mitsubishi Motors
2001 koda Auto
2003 Chevrolet
2005 BMW
2007 Audi
2009 Land rover and jaguar

Automobile industry in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Jako

Nissan too entering india this year with a damn sexy model.....i forgot the model....damn it!


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## Tefal

glomex said:


> Correction
> 
> Maruti Suzuki Began Production in 1983........
> 
> 
> Timeline of Indian automobile industry:
> 
> 1897 First Person to own a car in India - Mr Foster of M/s Crompton Greaves Company, Mumbai
> 1901 First Indian to own a car in India - Jamsetji Tata
> 1905 First Woman to drive a car in India - Mrs. Suzanne RD Tata
> 1905 Fiat Motors
> 1911 First Taxi in India
> 1924 Formation of traffic police
> 1928 Chevrolet Motors
> 1942 Hindustan Motors
> 1944 Premier Auto Limited
> 1945 Tata Motors
> 1947 Mahindra Motors
> 1948 Ashok Motors
> 1948 Standard Motors
> 1974 Sipani Motors
> 1981 Maruti Suzuki
> 1994 Rover Motors
> 1994 Mercedes Benz
> 1994 Opel
> 1995 Ford Motors
> 1995 Honda SIEL
> 1995 Reva Electric Car Company
> 1995 Daewoo Motors
> 1996 Hyundai Motor Company
> 1997 Toyota Kirloskar Motors
> 1997 Fiat Motors (Re-Entry)
> 1998 San Motors
> 1998 Mitsubishi Motors
> 2001 koda Auto
> 2003 Chevrolet
> 2005 BMW
> 2007 Audi
> 2009 Land rover and jaguar
> 
> Automobile industry in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



thanx for update


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## Tefal

Jako said:


> Nissan too entering india this year with a damn sexy model.....i forgot the model....damn it!




nissan is already in india for last 5 years. they got 2 models.

1= X-trail( jeep)
2= luxury car forgot the name hehehee

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Choppers said:


> Are These Cars Manufactured in Pakistan or from which country they are imported.



Yes - I believe all of those cars are manufactured/assembled in Pakistan.

The local content varies though. The government has been pursuing a program to get local auto vendors up to par and supply increasingly more components, but I think that with the smaller size of the industry and other issues, that 'auto parts deletion' program has sort of stagnated at about 40% for the higher end cars (Civic, corrola etc.) and has gone up to 70-80% for the smaller lower end models.

There was an improving trend under Musharraf as car sales skyrocketed, but that will probably be arrested with the current economic slowdown and power and material input bottlenecks.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

This is a somewhat dated article (2001) on local auto manufacturing and deletion levels - the numbers have improved somewhat since then, and I'll try and find more recent figures:



> Deletion Programme
> 
> Pakistan automobile sector is producing / assembling 800cc, 1000cc, 1300cc and 1600 cc cars, Pickup, Trucks, Buses, Jeeps, HI-ACE, Mini Buses/Coaches, Motorcycles, and Tractors, while there is no hope in current scenario to produce a 100 per cent Pakistani car.
> 
> Deletion Programme is going very slow which is badly affecting our local automobile industry. The government should strictly implement this program so that transfer of technology can take place. Apart from Karachi, there is need to hold fairs and exhibition at national and international level. There should be permanent exhibition centres in Lahore, Islamabad, Faisalabad and Gujrannwala.
> 
> The Industry specific deletion programme for Motorcycles and Tractors has been prepared during the year 1998-99 and Central Board of Revenue (CBR) has been asked for its implementation accordingly. The deletion policy has attracted investment in many joint ventures and any technical collaboration for local manufacturing in the country. The varying degree of deletion achievement with technology in tractors 82&#37;, trucks 58%, motorcycles 72% and other motor vehicles 64%.
> 
> Automobile Industry In Pakistan | Economic Review | Find Articles at BNET


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## Choppers

> nissan is already in india for last 5 years. they got 2 models.
> 
> 1= X-trail( jeep)
> 2= luxury car forgot the name hehehee



MODELS OF NISSAN MOTORS CARS

MODEL TYPE
Nissan X-Trail 
Comfort SUV
Elegance

Nissan Teana Premium




AWAITED MODEL OF NISSAN CARS

MODEL TYPE

Nissan GT-R Premium
Nissan Livina SUV
Nissan Infiniti G35	Mid Size Car


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## wtf

Hasnain2009 said:


> For petrol It was PKR 57/litre, i dont know if they have increased prices!
> 
> Dont know!



Petrol is cheaper in Pakistan compared to India by about 50%!!!

The perfect solution to India-Pak trade. India exports buses to Pakistan, Pakistan exports petrol to India.


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## wtf

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> This is a somewhat dated article (2001) on local auto manufacturing and deletion levels - the numbers have improved somewhat since then, and I'll try and find more recent figures:



What Pakistan needs is not local manufacturing, but a larger market. Either Pakistan has to find a larger market or it has to have a much larger middle class.

Pakistan has pretty good ports, so it could potentially manufacture for exports. But now with Sri Lankan peace and established manufacturing bases in South India (again ports in Madras), that may be getting more difficult. I think that in the near future, we'll be seeing at least one Lanka-made car being exported into India-Pakistan. They are lucky to have access to a really big market due to trade access to all South Asian/East Asian countries.

The biggest case of Pakistan missing the bus would have been in the late 80's/ early 90's. If Pakistan had managed to export cars into India (when India had no car industry to speak of), it would have set itself up as the manufacturing hub for South Asia.Once it had set itself up, it would have had volume advantages and blocked other manufacturers from ever starting up. Now it looks like Sri Lanka has a chance to do that.

The easiest would be if Pakistan could make cars and ship to Afghanistan/Iran. But Iran already has pretty strong car industry. Another possibility is to make car for ex-soviet union. They already import most of their cars from Europe.


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## Tefal

wtf said:


> Petrol is cheaper in Pakistan compared to India by about 50%!!!
> 
> The perfect solution to India-Pak trade. India exports buses to Pakistan, Pakistan exports petrol to India.



How??????????? pertrol cost some 40 odd rupees in India?


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## wtf

Tefal said:


> How??????????? pertrol cost some 40 odd rupees in India?



About Rs 49 in Tamilnadu . That works out to Pakistani Rs 83. That's about 50% more than what it costs in Pakistan. 

My comment earlier was not fully serious though. Pakistan does have shipping advantages, but I don't think the 50% advantage is fully due to that. It ought to be mostly due to tax/subsidy differences.


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## Choppers

As far as i know refinaries in pak cannot fulfill local demand and thus import from gulf countries.Indian oil companies wanted to export petrol to pak which Gop is considering as transporation is much cheaper.


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## indiatech

Hundai is manufacturing its Atos (Renamed Santro in india, Amica in uk) only from its Chennai factory in india. The car is known as Atos in most of the international markets.

Gasoline is cheaper in pakistan. We heard in some cities in pakistan , cheap gasoline from Iran is available in the black market. Some even use it to run gensets during power cuts. Is that correct ?


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## praneetbajpaie

It is quite amusing as well as disturbing to see the slanging going on here over a few buses made by TATA. The Indian Bus segment has matured over the years and TATA, Adhok Leyland as well as Eicher Motors and Asia Motor Works are producing world class commercial vehicles. I am sure that the Pakistani Bus manufacturing industry will reach an envious sophistication level over the years if it has not reached already. I would request the members of the board not to trash each other over trivial issues like quality of buses. We Indians and Pakistanis will have to realize that this "Tu Tu Main Main", Mine is better than yours' crap will get our nations nowhere. We need to brainstorm and bring out ideas on how to make our countries developed and bring our countries out of the rut that we find ourselves in. This we owe to our next generations. We should hang our heads in shame that even after 63 years of Independence, India and Pakistan are still considered Third World Countries.
Guys, Please this hatred and slanging has to stop.


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## somebozo

Looks like some MQM agents showing loyality to motherland .. smarties will get the hint..why do we need indian brand name trolling in our economic heart??

We have exported 400 Hino-Pak busses to UAE.
The best CNG bus is made in Turkey, China and Iran.
Bosch licenses many patents from Iran auto industry for its CNG fuel management system.

So again why do we needed these TATA busses?? Shouldnt we be supporting local industry or atleast that of brotherly countries???


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## TATA

why make a 3 year old dead thread alive


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## Karachiite

somebozo said:


> *Looks like some MQM agents showing loyality to motherland*



Thnx for showing your mentality. You do know MQM were the one to set up CNG buses in Karachi? But unwanted refugees in Karachi are destroying the buses.

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## FNFAL

somebozo said:


> Looks like some MQM agents showing loyality to motherland .. smarties will get the hint..why do we need indian brand name trolling in our economic heart??
> 
> We have exported 400 Hino-Pak busses to UAE.
> The best CNG bus is made in Turkey, China and Iran.
> Bosch licenses many patents from Iran auto industry for its CNG fuel management system.
> 
> So again why do we needed these TATA busses?? Shouldnt we be supporting local industry or atleast that of brotherly countries???





any proof that the best buses are made in turkey???Or is it brotherly love again? 
remeber the age old adage ? birds of same feather flock together....
Well in this case common ppl in both countries should share the same transport.

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## somebozo

FNFAL said:


> any proof that the best buses are made in turkey???Or is it brotherly love again?
> remeber the age old adage ? birds of same feather flock together....
> Well in this case common ppl in both countries should share the same transport.



Turkish OTOKAR is as good as mercedes!


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## karan.1970

somebozo said:


> Turkish OTOKAR is as good as mercedes!



Its not just the quality but also the affordability that decides the model and make of the purchase..


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