# The Real Iraqi Airforce(Saddam Era and before)



## GHOST RIDER

---------- Post added at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:44 PM ----------

*Mig 29
*















*SU-22*















---------- Post added at 07:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

*SU-25*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig 29*










*Mirage F1*




















*Mi-24*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-29*





*Bell*










---------- Post added at 07:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:49 PM ----------

*Su-22*





*Super Etendard*






*Su-25*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-29*





*Mig-23*





---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 PM ----------

*Hawker Hunter*















*Gloster Meteor *

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage F1*





*Jet Provost*





*L-39*





*Mig-23*





*Mig-17*





*Tu-16*





*An-121*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Venom*










*Mirage F1
*






*Delfin*





*Some old plane*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mi-24*





*Hawker Hunter*















*Mig-21*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-21*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Imran Khan

ego of one man destroy a whole nation .thats what dictators are .

Reactions: Like Like:
8


----------



## nescafe

sadam was a satanist.


----------



## Desert Fox

*Iraqi Mirage F-1EQ pilots prepare for sortie against Iranian targets*





*Captain Mahmoud Hameed Al-'Ani of Iraqi Air Force climing into his Mirage F.1EQ-5*





*Iraqi Air Force Mirage F1EQ Taking off*





*Iraqi Air Force Commemorative Stamp Issued in 1986*





*Iraqi Air Force Commemorative Stamp Issued in 1985*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage F1*















*Mig-23*










*Mi-24*





*Tu-22*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Seafury*




















---------- Post added at 09:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 PM ----------

*Mig-21*










---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:44 PM ----------

*MI-2*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*L-39*





*Bell*





---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 PM ----------

*Mig -29*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## TOPGUN

Thanks for sharing awsome pic's of an old era .


----------



## mitth

Saddam ego very big loss her nation...................


----------



## somebozo

most of that has bitten the dust..those which has not will do soon for sure..


----------



## Desert Fox

*Abandoned Iraqi SU-25*






*Abandoned Iraqi MIG-25*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi Mirage F1 with mid air refulling capability*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*An-12 tail*





*Bell*





*And a very familar helo*





---------- Post added at 10:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

*Mirage F1*










---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------







*Mi-17*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage F1*
























^^^*with laser guided bomb*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*with Harold recon pod*





---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 PM ----------

*Kh-29L air-to-surface missile*





---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:10 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*ATTENTION EVERY BODY
AWSOME PICTURE BELOW*
























































^^^^*Iraqi Mirage F1 on the Tail of an Iranian F-14*

Reactions: Like Like:
7


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi mirage after Exocet launche*





*Su-22*





---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

*Puma helicopter*





*Mi-17*










*Mi-24*





---------- Post added at 10:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

*Mig-29*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Puma*





*F-7*










---------- Post added at 10:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 PM ----------

*as202 Bravo*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi F1 seen through F-16 camera during desert storm*










---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

*Mig-29*





*Mig-23*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## harpoon

I wonder how many of it was shot down during 2 gulf wars and in between them.


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Another rare picture*
*Iraqi Mirage F1 air to air refuling*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Tu-16 BADGER*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mi-8 and Bell*





*Mirage F1*




















*Bell and Wessex*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage f1*











---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------

*Zlin 526 trainers*





---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------

*Su-24*





*Mig-27*





*Mirage F1*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Su-24*





---------- Post added at 12:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi Airforce*





---------- Post added at 12:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 AM ----------

*SU-22*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage F1*






























---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:42 AM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## JonAsad

what was the use of these aircraft when they were to be buried in desert sands when mostly needed-

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage F1*






























*Delivery of first Mirage F1*





---------- Post added at 12:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

*Vampire*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

---------- Post added at 12:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 AM ----------

*Mig-23 with Exocet*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Fury*





*Vampire*





---------- Post added at 12:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 12:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 AM ----------

*From Iran-Iraq War, around early 1982, Iraqi Air Force SU Fighter, as seen from Iranian side during operation "Fath-ul-mobin" around west of Dezful.*





*su-24M firing a Kh-23*





*su-24 with sakhalin refulling pod,,*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Hunter*















---------- Post added at 01:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ----------







---------- Post added at 01:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:01 AM ----------

*Su-24*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-21*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

^^^*King Faisal I greeting an officer of the first batch of Air Force officers returning to Iraq after their course abroad in 1931
*





^^^*Taking over ceremony of Shaiba air base on 2nd may 1955*
















---------- Post added at 01:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:05 AM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Su-25*










*SH-3 Sea King*





*Mig-29 Fulcrum*

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## GHOST RIDER

---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 AM ----------

* Iraqi Air Force F-1*





*No. 1 Squadron, Royal 'Iraq Air Force. The machines are Hawker "Audaxes" (Bristol "Pegasus" engines).*










---------- Post added at 01:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 AM ----------

_hope every body enjoyed........_

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Desert Fox

*Iraqi Air Force MiG-23 ML*






*Iraqi Air Force MiG-23 Flogger*





*Iraqi Air Force MiG-25 RBT FOXBAT*




*
Iraqi Air Force MiG-25 Foxbat*





*Iraqi Air Force MiG-25 RBT FOXBAT*





*Iraqi Air Force Jet Provost T.4*





*Iraqi Air Force Su-22 Fitter*





*Iraqi Air Force Mirage F-1*

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## THE MASK

GHOST RIDER said:


> *ATTENTION EVERY BODY
> AWSOME PICTURE BELOW*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ^^^^*Iraqi Mirage F1 on the Tail of an Iranian F-14*


 
sir,
this is not Mirage F1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

THE MASK said:


> sir,
> this is not Mirage F1



*This is the belly of and Iraqi F1 and compare it with the plane behind the F-14
it look the same*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-29*


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/8131_159387052117_804937117_2709451_899909_n.jpg
* Iraqi Air Force Brigadier General Ali Al-Aaragy enters a 63rd Fighter Squadron F-16 Fighting Falcon
General al Aaragy is a veteran F-1 Mirage fighter pilot for the Saddam Airforce.*


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Roundel*


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Nav

Imran Khan said:


> ego of one man destroy a whole nation .thats what dictators are .


 
once upon a time, sadaam was american puppet in gulf, Us Armed iraq against sevrel countries bt when they realized thy he is no more beneficial for american imperialism, they simply turnd his switches off..

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## GHOST RIDER

---------- Post added at 03:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 PM ----------

*Tu-22*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

*su-7*





---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 03:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

*seen from coilation aircraft gun camera*





---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Old Iraqi air force squadrons*





*Squadron 17
He was stationed in Tikrit, the military airport .. and at the School of Air Force Academy ... and was composed of a number of MiG-21 aircraft *









*Squadron 23 was stationed in Abu Obaidah Air base and it consisted of a number of Mig-23PN aircrafts *









*Squadron-11 Was stationed in Al-Rashid Air base and it consisted of a number of Mig-21MF and Mig-21F previously*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Super Etendard*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Mosamania

Nav said:


> once upon a time, sadaam was american puppet in gulf, Us Armed iraq against sevrel countries bt when they realized thy he is no more beneficial for american imperialism, they simply turnd his switches off..



Saddam wasn't a puppet. But after he entered war with Iran he got every help he could get. The same deal with Iran. Sad to see two countries who were against the same enemy fight each other. One of the CIAs most glorious successes if you ask me. 

The US was helping Iraq to prolong the war as long as possible while Iran was getting help from Arab's enemy Israel to also prolong the war as much as possible. The result millions of Muslims dead.


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Destroyed Iraqi planes*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Old Iraqi Airforce remaining*
*SU-224K*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*F-7*





*Su-22*






*Mi-24*






*Su-7*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-25*






*Su-7*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Sea King*





*Su-20*





---------- Post added at 08:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 AM ----------

*Mig-15*





*Jet Provost*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mi-17*





*Sea King*





*Il-28*





*Aero L-29*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mig-23*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## baqai

Saddam's airforce never did raised any serious fight against USAF right? looking at their hardware they should had been able to give atleast 1% fight? without flaming can we discuss what went wrong? morals?


----------



## silko

baqai said:


> Saddam's airforce never did raised any serious fight against USAF right? looking at their hardware they should had been able to give atleast 1% fight? without flaming can we discuss what went wrong? morals?



not combat ready, bad equiped and bad trained... ?


----------



## baqai

Well i wouldn't say badly equipped considering they did had Mig 29's, Mirage F1's etc with them, training yes maybe and i guess overall morals might be the case. It would had been interesting to see them giving a fight to demonstrate how well soviet and french planes perform against US hardware.


----------



## silko

baqai said:


> Well i wouldn't say badly equipped considering they did had Mig 29's, Mirage F1's etc with them, training yes maybe and i guess overall morals might be the case. It would had been interesting to see them giving a fight to demonstrate how well soviet and french planes perform against US hardware.



now, wich war are you talking about, 91 or 03 ? 

cause i wrote that based on 03.


----------



## baqai

The first gulf war, I wouldn't call 03 a war, By that time US of A and NATO already have broken back bone of Iraq and the so called "war" was nothing more than an excuse to officially step inside their land. Also i am talking about conventional air warfare here, we all know what happened when guerrilla war fare started there.


----------



## IceCold

Damn they have an AWAC and aerial refueling capabilities back then something Pakistan is acquiring just now and look how badly they got thrashed. Heck they couldnt even protect their nuclear installation from Israeli attack. Incompetent losers.


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Inventory of Saddams Iraqi AirForce(according to Roy Braybrook on operation desert storm)*
*-200 MIG-21(Including Chinese F-7)
-50-100 MiG-23MS (some with in-flight refuling capability)
-28 Mig-25 (8 were used for High altitude Reconnaissance)
-48+ MiG-29
-328 Mirage F1
-100 SU-7
-100 Mig-23BN
-60 Su-25
-50 MiG-19
-24 L-39
-50 Gazelle Helicopters
-50 Mi-24 Helicopters
-100 Mi-8
-6 An-12
-18 IL-76
-3 IL-76 modified for AEW role *

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## silko

baqai said:


> The first gulf war, I wouldn't call 03 a war, By that time US of A and NATO already have broken back bone of Iraq and the so called "war" was nothing more than an excuse to officially step inside their land. Also i am talking about conventional air warfare here, we all know what happened when guerrilla war fare started there.



well, they just had a war with Iran for several years, they must have been exhausted. and a lot of planes and army vehicles where probably lost. and they didnt have the best equipped air force at that time, mainly because of sanctions.


----------



## VelocuR

Surprisingly, these Iraq Airforces was very advanced many resources availables than Pakistan currently today. How come they defeated by USA easily during wars? What jets they used during US invasion in 2003?


----------



## TARIQ BN ZIYAAD

they were under almost 13 years sanctions and u think with only these equipment they could face u.s , u.k , france etc

TARIQ


----------



## gambit

baqai said:


> Saddam's airforce never did raised any serious fight against USAF right? looking at their hardware they should had been able to give atleast 1% fight? without flaming can we discuss what went wrong? morals?


You asked a very legitimate question and one that after Desert Storm many air force commanders asked themselves of the air forces under their commands. After all, the Iraqi Air Force was their peer. We are not talking about matching precisely hardware per hardware or exact numbers of pilots. We are talking about the overall status of the Iraqi Air Force in terms of experience, education, training, and hardware as compared to Iraq's neighbors. If *YOU* think the Iraqi Air Force should have given at least %1 of a fight, these commanders probably believed their air forces would have given the USAF much more casualties, part of that belief would be out of sheer national pride. So imagine their shock when the Iraqi Air Force basically crumbled on the *FIRST* day of Desert Storm.

What went wrong? Personally, and you call me bias if you wish and I will not object, it is *NOT* so much what the Iraqi Air Force did wrong as it was the Iraqi Air Force could not do anything else. If 'fortune favor the prepared' as the old saying goes, then there was nothing the Iraqi Air Force could have done because the USAF is the most prepared in the world. In my ten years in the USAF, I have been to several countries working with many foreign air forces and every one of them welcomed US because we bring the best training aids wherever we go. We can play the 'bad guys' all the time if they asked and we will be the best 'Red Force' any air force will find. And when you have that much of experience at playing war games that are just short of live shooting at live targets, when the time comes to shooting live ammo at live targets, it will pay off.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Chogy

GHOST RIDER said:


> *Inventory of Saddams Iraqi AirForce(according to Roy Braybrook on operation desert storm)*
> *-200 MIG-21(Including Chinese F-7)
> -50-100 MiG-23MS (some with in-flight refuling capability)
> -28 Mig-25 (8 were used for High altitude Reconnaissance)
> -48+ MiG-29
> -328 Mirage F1
> -100 SU-7
> -100 Mig-23BN
> -60 Su-25
> -50 MiG-19
> -24 L-39
> -50 Gazelle Helicopters
> -50 Mi-24 Helicopters
> -100 Mi-8
> -6 An-12
> -18 IL-76
> -3 IL-76 modified for AEW role *



I was active duty when 91 kicked off. My old squadron was deployed to KSA, and I knew those men... I knew what they were capable of in their brand-new F-15's. At the end of the 1980's, the USAF was at the absolute peak of its strength. Never before or since had the USAF been as potent in numbers and training. All of this came about because Reagan wanted to spend the Soviets into oblivion... So we had all the jets, parts, and fuel we'd ever have dreamed of for training.

If we could have an imaginary war of the 1990 USAF vs. the 2011 USAF, I'd take the 1990 force, purely based upon numbers and training.

Facing the USAF was a bit of a paper tiger. They had some hardware, but we knew they did not have the training and tactics to match. When the Air War kicked off, I told my wife, "If the Iraqis put up a fight, we'll have new jet aces inside of a week." What happened, as we now know, is that they put up a fight for maybe 3 days, and the losses were extraordinary. Nothing will kill a squadron morale worse than seeing 4 take off, and only one (or none) return. Soon, it became (for the Iraqis) "If we fly, we die." They stood down, then decided to run for Iran. We called them "Taco Bell missions" as in "Run for the border", an old Taco bell restaurant advertisement. The Taco Bell missions were all run, no fight, and while a lot of jets made it to Iran, a lot more were shot down enroute.

So in a nutshell, we had both training AND technology on our side, and the air war was very lopsided. That takes nothing away from the Iraqi pilots. It was out of their hands. Without excellent training, there is little they could have done. Kind of like trying to run a marathon but not training for it. You're going to get smoked by the guy who is in shape.

Reactions: Like Like:
10


----------



## silko

so you where in active duty in the skies above Iraq? 

if so, a fanboy question. DID YOU OR SOMEONE FROM YOUR SQUAD SHOT DOWN A PLANE! 

a stupid question, but why didn't you follow the Iraqi planes even when they went inside the Irani airspace. you did that plenty of times in North-Korea. when the North-Korean jets flew inn to Chinese airspace.


----------



## Chogy

I did not fly in GW1. I had moved on to become an instructor pilot. It was painful not to be with them.

My old squadron - when they deployed, I knew them all and had trained some of them. I am friends with several who did score a victory. My wingman from B-flight shot down 2 Sukhois on a Taco Bell run. They all said "training was harder." Iraqi C & C was gone. No AWACS, no radar. We were able to follow them from the moment they took off.

It all goes to show that an air war is SO much more than the jets... just as important is training, communications, early warning, C & C, etc etc.

---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 PM ----------

As for pursuit into Iran - there were issues with both sovereignty and fuel. There was enough Iraqi SAMS still in existence to make a tanker a fat target, and the tankers could not follow that far, thus the Eagles were at the extremes of their fuel to pursue very far. They all flew with three external fuel tanks, despite the performance penalty.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## silko

Chogy said:


> I did not fly in GW1. I had moved on to become an instructor pilot. It was painful not to be with them.
> 
> My old squadron - when they deployed, I knew them all and had trained some of them. I am friends with several who did score a victory. My wingman from B-flight shot down 2 Sukhois on a Taco Bell run. They all said "training was harder." Iraqi C & C was gone. No AWACS, no radar. We were able to follow them from the moment they took off.
> 
> It all goes to show that an air war is SO much more than the jets... just as important is training, communications, early warning, C & C, etc etc.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 PM ----------
> 
> As for pursuit into Iran - there were issues with both sovereignty and fuel. There was enough Iraqi SAMS still in existence to make a tanker a fat target, and the tankers could not follow that far, thus the Eagles were at the extremes of their fuel to pursue very far. They all flew with three external fuel tanks, despite the performance penalty.



I LOVE YOU

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## longbrained

An airforce not capable of fighting and always depending on foreign aids and pilots is no air force at all. I have more respect for Vietnamese airforce which put up a fight against American air force and despite heavy losses it produced several aces and inflicted heavy losses on US air force downing many fighter jets and even a B-52 bomber. Iraqi air force was only good when Yugoslavian fighter pilots and French and East German instructors/advisors were running it in 1980's. When they were gone after Kuwaiti invasion, it just became a national airline over night. 

And by 2003, sanctions on a country with no industrial base had taken its toll. But the real reasons why there was no fight at all, was because morals were so low that no one wanted to put up their life for Saddam and his sons. And CIA had already bought Iraqi airforce general who just a week before the war had ordered all the aircrafts to be buried under tonnes of sand and gravel in essence destroying them. Second Death of IrAF


----------



## longbrained

Taking out foreign advisers and Soviet and European technologies out of the picture, the real indigenous technological capability of Saddam was nil. So he was just another joke on planet earth who had been propped up by funding of Gulf countries and thriving on French and East German advisers. After he fell out of favor with his masters, this was his real level of technology:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## baqai

Chogy thanks a lot for taking out time and answering in detail, Just wondering in your opinion would PAF/IAF be a walk in the park for USAF too and would missions be Taco Bell or you think PAF/IAF would be able to give a 1% hard time?

Did you ever had a chance of watching one of our boys flying the Viper's, Okay i shall put my flame suit on again but do you think our pilots are really good as we like to claim? I just want your opinion on the level of training and professionalism you might have seen with our Pilots and Crew during your service.


----------



## Chogy

Baqai, I've been out of the loop too long, and I have no current real information. An effective air force combines modern hardware with so many things that are intangible, like the human element, and also stuff that is simply classified.

I don't believe Pakistan has built a paper Air Force. A lot of nations like to put on a show to deter enemies. If I've got $500 million, I could buy 10 F-16's, but have nothing left for spares and training. My enemy might see those jets and be deterred. But if I was smart, I'd buy 6 F-16's and use the remainder to keep them (and the pilots) at peak performance.

A paper Air Force will crumble under any real pressure. A real Air Force will put up a stiff fight, and in that case, it becomes a numbers game. If devoted to defensive operations, the scenario is more favorable. Almost all U.S. air to air losses in Vietnam were bomb-haulers like F-105's and F-100's shot down by defensive fighters. So if the posture is one of defense, a proportionally greater toll can be taken. If jets are sent on bombing and interdiction missions, it swings the other way.

To answer your main question, I don't know... I'm not just trying to be civil, I don't have enough information to form an opinion. But under no circumstances do I think the PAF would be anything like Iraq. The 1991 Iraq was a military and system ready to implode under its own incompetence.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Iraqi_Militaria_IMF/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=3328537


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi pilots in France for Mirage F1 training*

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi Su-22 which fled to Iran
*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Mirage F1 never delivered*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## somebozo

Saddam was an incompetent commander and planner. He wasted all that money into building an impressive numerical superiority but nothing in terms of building the RD capacity needed for actual development of such machines.


----------



## GHOST RIDER



Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi Mi-24 Hind captured by Iran during Iran Iraq war 
shortly after capture*

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## GHOST RIDER

*Iraqi MiG-25 and Pilots*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## blackcobran

nescafe said:


> sadam was a satanist.



what???? are you ok??

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## revojam

Very informative thread


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

If you ask me if Saddam was an impetuous idiot? I would say, yes, he was. But he was a man among men who refused to bow one inch to his enemies. Allah Yerhamoh,


----------



## kollang

BLACKEAGLE said:


> If you ask me if Saddam was an impetuous idiot? I would say, yes, he was. But he was a man among men who refused to bow one inch to his enemies. Allah Yerhamoh,


 
yes....a man...a man who couldnt pity his own people.a man who used chemical weapon agaist civilians... while that satanic mullah in jamaran ordered his soldier not use any chemical weapon and not to hit any civilian target.
but history proved good one is superior to the bad one at the end.
may allah give him and his "supporters" same place in qiamat.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## REHAN NIAZI FALCON

Chogy said:


> I was active duty when 91 kicked off. My old squadron was deployed to KSA, and I knew those men... I knew what they were capable of in their brand-new F-15's. At the end of the 1980's, the USAF was at the absolute peak of its strength. Never before or since had the USAF been as potent in numbers and training. All of this came about because Reagan wanted to spend the Soviets into oblivion... So we had all the jets, parts, and fuel we'd ever have dreamed of for training.
> 
> If we could have an imaginary war of the 1990 USAF vs. the 2011 USAF, I'd take the 1990 force, purely based upon numbers and training.
> 
> Facing the USAF was a bit of a paper tiger. They had some hardware, but we knew they did not have the training and tactics to match. When the Air War kicked off, I told my wife, "If the Iraqis put up a fight, we'll have new jet aces inside of a week." What happened, as we now know, is that they put up a fight for maybe 3 days, and the losses were extraordinary. Nothing will kill a squadron morale worse than seeing 4 take off, and only one (or none) return. Soon, it became (for the Iraqis) "If we fly, we die." They stood down, then decided to run for Iran. We called them "Taco Bell missions" as in "Run for the border", an old Taco bell restaurant advertisement. The Taco Bell missions were all run, no fight, and while a lot of jets made it to Iran, a lot more were shot down enroute.
> 
> So in a nutshell, we had both training AND technology on our side, and the air war was very lopsided. That takes nothing away from the Iraqi pilots. It was out of their hands. Without excellent training, there is little they could have done. Kind of like trying to run a marathon but not training for it. You're going to get smoked by the guy who is in shape.


 well said sir ..............


----------



## doublemaster

How can i forgive him? 

One of my family member who never returned from Kuawait because of him. He was supposed to come back one day and we were all waiting for him. But suddam attacked city. His mother died waiting for him. 

Only thing good i can say about him is. He died bravely.


----------



## INDIC

Iran-Iraq war costs him a lot and attacking Kuwait took away everything from him. He failed to take right decision.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## IceCold

These dictators first like to play in the hands of their foreign masters and latter have a very shameful and a disgrace end. They never try to win the hearts and mind of their own people, while they love to lick foreign boots, back home they like to rule with an iron fist and make it their birth right to rule without giving people freedom to choose. Saddam met his faith and so did Gaddafi of Libya.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## killerx

new iraqi air force is at what state right now


----------



## Doritos11



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Doritos11

MIG 29





SU 25








MIG 23





*Tupolev Tu-22 bomber*


----------



## f1000n

Adnan 2 AWACS (Iraqi modified IL-76)

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------

