# 6 things I hate about PAKISTAN



## war&peace

My observations are the same. We need to improve ourselves in these areas if we really want a sustainable tourism industry
I have watched her videos about Pakistan. She is a positive & genuine person. But these are real issues so please keep that in mind or just watch her videos about Pakistan. 







​

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## Dalit

The observations are correct. Cleanliness is supposed to be half our faith, but we lack severely. She is being too soft in my opinion.

The littering people cause in Pakistan is criminal. Both in cities and in other areas. These are basic manners. We lack common sense. People need to be heavily penalized.

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## waz

She's right on many counts. 
Improvement can only come through criticism, reflection and then solutions.

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## PurAzamBaHadaf

Dalit said:


> The observations are correct. Cleanliness is supposed to be half our faith, but we lack severely. She is being too soft in my opinion.
> 
> The littering people cause in Pakistan is criminal. Both in cities and in other areas. These are basic manners. We lack common sense. People need to be heavily penalized.



That comes from education and teaching people about the environment. Unfortunately, that doesn't exist and even educated people don't have manners. I've been to many different countries around the world and everywhere you go, Pakistanis and some South Asians are probably the people who are responsible for most of the litter and garbage.

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## fitpOsitive

war&peace said:


> My observations are the same. We need to improve ourselves in these areas if we really want a sustainable tourism industry
> 
> 
> ​


Yeah, she looks right


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## war&peace

fitpOsitive said:


> Yeah, she looks right


Focus on what she's saying. I didn't say she looks wrong

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## Pakhtoon yum

The oil things in food is a stupid issue for her to bring up but otherwise yeep

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## war&peace

Pakhtoon yum said:


> The oil things in food is a stupid issue for her to bring up but otherwise yeep


Yeah the oil thing, is a bit of exaggeration. She is a vegan and she eats mostly vegetables.

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## YeBeWarned

My wife complain about Karachi ..

1- its Extremely Dirty 
2- Worse Traffic she ever saw and almost 50% of the people not following the traffic rules 
3- Why did they put Allah and Rasool SAW name on walls, where Dogs/Cats are pooping and peeing, and people throw trash .. ( that really embarrass me ) .

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## Pakhtoon yum

war&peace said:


> Yeah the oil thing, is a bit of exaggeration. She is a vegan and she eats mostly vegetables.


That's her own problem



Starlord said:


> My wife complain about Karachi ..
> 
> 1- its Extremely Dirty
> 2- Worse Traffic she ever saw and almost 50% of the people not following the traffic rules
> 3- Why did they put Allah and Rasool SAW name on walls, where Dogs/Cats are pooping and peeing, and people throw trash .. ( that really embarrass me ) .


Tell her the truth then, cause the people are incredibly stupid and dont follow the teachings of Islam.

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## ghazi52

Gilgit City





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=431490540768663






Cleaned after social media backlash.

Photo: Zahid Raley

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## VCheng

ghazi52 said:


> Cleaned after social media backlash.



Cleaned? Now it is still an open sewer rather an an open sewer choked with plastic trash.

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## YeBeWarned

Pakhtoon yum said:


> Tell her the truth then, cause the people are incredibly stupid and dont follow the teachings of Islam.



I did that exact thing .. she was like ohhhhhhhhhhhhh

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Cleaned? Now it is still an open sewer rather an an open sewer choked with plastic trash.


When did you last visit? 

We dont have underground drainage 

We are a nation that can easily forget to build in a drainage system in something like a mega project called metro bus!

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## ghazi52

*Tourism industry: potential, challenges and misplaced focus of govt*
*The government of Pakistan needs to take into account all the problems we are facing today before it invites people from across the world*





https://nation.com.pk/blogger/abuzar-khan-buzdar
*Abuzar Khan Buzdar*

June 17, 2019

Like any other Pakistani who was born in 90s, I was happy, sad, uncertain, hopeful, excited and frightened whenever I thought about, or looked at, Prime Minister Imran Khan’s idea of Naya Pakistan. What will Naya Pakistan be like? Or to put it simply, what will be Naya in Naya Pakistan? Will it change my life, choices I make or decisions I take or what I wear or eat? More specifically, I was more concerned about the charisma Khan carries out and his agenda to make Pakistan _‘a thing of beauty _which must be viewed by everyone with their naked eyes. Being a tour operator, I have been a bit more interested in Khan’s policies concerning tourism and Khan’s fresh thinking and unique plans for its upgradation.

Imran Khan’s government invited English/Western bloggers to promote tourism through creating a soft, tourist-friendly image of the country. A summit, many conferences and meetings had been called in to work out on the idea. The government also changed its visa policy so that those wishing to visit Pakistan shall not face any difficulty on technical grounds. Everyone appreciated these efforts. Tour operators loved it for them it was about to expand business and profit. Pakistan was all set to welcome foreigners and earn money and good name at the same time without spending much. The hope was that the people will come in and help us strengthen our economy.

For someone who has been in the field for many years, the intentions of the government were both encouraging and noble. But, as a matter of fact, what Khan’s team lacked was substantial policy framework which created some serious questions about the future of the plans. There has been no serious, composed and comprehensive policy to address the challenges Pakistan is facing regarding tourism. The disassociation or unnoticed detachment of the policy makers from the ground realities, I fear, may not allow Khan’s idea of Naya Pakistan get transformed into a concrete reality in the field of tourism.

Before mentioning in detail the challenges Pakistan is facing at the moment, I would like to sum up my argument. If Pakistan does not take into account the prevailing challenges at ground, it’ll be difficult to make sustainable progress in the industry. The focus of the government to let the people from western countries come here and explore natural beauty of Pakistan may create more problems than it resolves. If a single tourist gets hurt in our country, the western media along with their Indian counterparts shall not only slam Pakistan but also may create a narrative which will again raise serious questions about the culture of Pakistan.

In my opinion (after repeatedly visiting northern areas of the country) there are certain challenges Pakistan has to deal with on preferential basis:

*Absence of infrastructure*

There is no adequate infrastructure developed by the government which might have been helpful for the tourists. For instance, in many areas there are no roads and at some places roads are in poor condition. Similarly, land sliding blocks all the roads sometimes and there is no effective measure to let the people commute safely. Every other tour operator will let you know that they have experienced some serious and perennial challenges due to the absence of adequate infrastructure.

*Where to stay?*

There are hotels and restaurants but in very limited number. Does the government have any idea that what happens in these areas if tourists are more than expected in number? How will foreign tourists manage to stay in such areas if they decide to come in? Moreover, is there any policy mechanism to have a check over these hotels to fix the prices and fare? If not, is there anything on the cards to address such serious issues?

*Sociological challenges*

This is something we Pakistanis are not comfortable to talk about. There is a misperception about ourselves that we’re extra-caring and hospitable people. Such assertions have some elements of truth but cannot be treated as a final word. Local people in northern areas are generally good but overly protective of their own culture and have some unrestrained economic interests which usually lead to exploitation of the tourists if they are not accompanied by a tour operator. Has government made any effort to make local culture inclusive or tourist-friendly? In my opinion, it is ultimately the responsibility of the government (carried out through district administration) to protect both the locals and the tourists. 

To conclude; the government of Pakistan needs to take into account all the problems we are facing today before it invites people from across the world. If the government does not take into account the problems I have outlined above, the overall romance with tourism may lose its sheen in the coming days if God forbid one bad incident takes place.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Starlord said:


> I did that exact thing .. she was like ohhhhhhhhhhhhh


It's a shame but the clergy is busy eating halwa and talking part in politics.


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## YeBeWarned

Pakhtoon yum said:


> It's a shame but the clergy is busy eating halwa and talking part in politics.



its the Clergy who order their minions to do that , write down Allah and Rasool , or Nara-e-Farooqi etc on the walls under which dogs and cats pee and poo ..

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## Pakhtoon yum

Starlord said:


> its the Clergy who order their minions to do that , write down Allah and Rasool , or Nara-e-Farooqi etc on the walls under which dogs and cats pee and poo ..


Well dogs and cats write to too soo....


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## I.R.A

She is being polite.

Pakistanis are bunch of illiterate, uncivilised, stupid herd of baboons. Deprived of any wisdom and manners. And we seriously need a Pakistan Education Movement instead Pashtun Tahafuz Movement and blah blah.

Ask any Pakistani Muslim and he will lecture you how Gog Magog or Yajooj Majooj are going to destroy ever crop and water reservoir and would bring destruction upon any region they go ........... and then show them the photos of what they did to places and meadows they visited. Plastic bottles, plastic bags, plastic wrappers, plastic everything is left behind in those places ...... I don't know why the sick minds of Pakistanis enjoy this but seriously they have destroyed every place that was opened for them to visit.

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## war&peace

VCheng said:


> Cleaned? Now it is still an open sewer rather an an open sewer choked with plastic trash.


Use spectacles or contact the optician asap.


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## B.K.N

war&peace said:


> we really want a sustainable tourism industry



No one wants this


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## war&peace

Brass Knuckles said:


> No one wants this


Imran Khan wants that...or at least that is his wish and he has said that quite a few times but federal govt cannot intervene in provincial and local govt other than KPK and Punjab. 
Punjab has a lot more of mess in bureaucracy than in the streets due to political appointments by PMLn govt.


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> When did you last visit?
> 
> We dont have underground drainage
> 
> We are a nation that can easily forget to build in a drainage system in something like a mega project called metro bus!



Let us just say that the "aromas" continue to get stronger as the population increases. No photograph can capture that assault on the senses.

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## Arsalan

Brass Knuckles said:


> No one wants this


Why not? Everyone WANTS that. Whether we are working to make that happen is a different story. 



war&peace said:


> My observations are the same. We need to improve ourselves in these areas if we really want a sustainable tourism industry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


She is right about most part! A couple of things that i do not agree with.

However, to me a positive take away is that if the six things a tourist HATES about us include how we cut or salad or put salt on fruit or add oil to our food!! we are actually doing pretty damn good.

@waz

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## war&peace

Arsalan said:


> Why not? Everyone WANTS that. Whether we are working to make that happen is a different story.
> 
> 
> She is right about most part! A couple of things that i do not agree with.
> 
> However, to me a positive take away is that if the six things a tourist HATES about us include how we cut or salad or put salt on fruit or add oil to our food!! we are actually doing pretty damn good.
> 
> @waz


Cutting salad or extra oil is her liking/disliking. This salad thing is a bit exaggeration because in my family [in Pakistan] salad means finely cut or chopped onions, tomatoes, green chilies, cucumber, carrots which are then doused in apple cider vinegar & lemon and then rinsed with water and sprinkled with olive oil and pinch of salt. 

About oil and extra cooking the food, I must say that makes the food unhealthy. Pakistani overcook the food which destroys essential nutrients (mostly vitamins & minerals). 

However, one point she forgot is the lack of nice public toilets. It is really a horrible experience while travelling in Pakistan that often the public toilets lack sanitation... there are no toilet paper and cleanliness is horrible.. People do not flush after using but in many case the flushing system is out of order and no one repairs them for years. 

Installation of waste bins or trash cans in the cities...



Dubious said:


> When did you last visit?
> 
> We dont have underground drainage
> 
> We are a nation that can easily forget to build in a drainage system in something like a mega project called metro bus!


Well this particular sewer can easily be covered with concrete slabs

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## JohnWick

VCheng said:


> Cleaned? Now it is still an open sewer rather an an open sewer choked with plastic trash.


Yeah it should be covered .....


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## VCheng

JohnWick said:


> Yeah it should be covered .....



That will help with the "Phew de Toilette" a lot.

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## Arsalan

war&peace said:


> Cutting salad or extra oil is her liking/disliking. This salad thing is a bit exaggeration because in my family [in Pakistan] salad means finely cut or chopped onions, tomatoes, green chilies, cucumber, carrots which are then doused in apple cider vinegar & lemon and then rinsed with water and sprinkled with olive oil and pinch of salt.
> 
> About oil and extra cooking the food, I must say that makes the food unhealthy. Pakistani overcook the food which destroys essential nutrients (mostly vitamins & minerals).
> 
> However, one point she forgot is the lack of nice public toilets. It is really a horrible experience while travelling in Pakistan that often the public toilets lack sanitation... there are no toilet paper and cleanliness is horrible.. People do not flush after using but in many case the flushing system is out of order and no one repairs them for years.
> 
> Installation of waste bins or trash cans in the cities...
> 
> 
> Well this particular sewer can easily be covered with concrete slabs


Agreed man. Most of the things she mentioned are actually not SOCIAL ISSUES that we should be worried about, they are more like personal likes and dislikes. It is like saying that i hate England because their hot dogs are made from pork! You don't hate a country for such things. There are many REAL issues she could have mentioned but since she have not, i said that "me must be doing really well" . YOU have mentioned one of those things already. There is a long list of SMALL things that need to be improved and things because of which tourists might not like Pakistan.


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## war&peace

Arsalan said:


> Agreed man. Most of the things she mentioned are actually not SOCIAL ISSUES that we should be worried about, they are more like personal likes and dislikes. It is like saying that i hate England because their hot dogs are made from pork! You don't hate a country for such things. There are many REAL issues she could have mentioned but since she have not, i said that "me must be doing really well" . YOU have mentioned one of those things already. There is a long list of SMALL things that need to be improved and things because of which tourists might not like Pakistan.


Toilets, cleanliness, hygiene, corruption / do nambar items are not personal likes or dislikes rather social things..while food we can say is a personal like or dislike but even that is kind of social because it is "practiced" by the majority.
I think you have missed her sincerity. She is presenting her own observations as a tourist and she loves Pakistan and has been more times here than to any other country. She is not taking the line towed by western media or anti-Pakistani libtards who would make false claims about terrorism, intolerance, forced conversions, oppression of minorities as issues which most of the tourists do not find as portrayed by the aforementioned.


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## Arsalan

war&peace said:


> Toilets, cleanliness, hygiene, corruption / do nambar items are not personal likes or dislikes rather social things..while food we can say is a personal like or dislike but even that is kind of social because it is "practiced" by the majority.
> I think you have missed her sincerity. She is presenting her own observations as a tourist and she loves Pakistan and has been more times here than to any other country. She is not taking the line towed by western media or anti-Pakistani libtards who would make false claims about terrorism, intolerance, forced conversions, oppression of minorities as issues which most of the tourists do not find as portrayed by the aforementioned.


Oh no i am not doubting her sincerity (even though i dont know her but that how i am). I am just saying, as i said in the first post here, some of the points are personal likes and dislikes and i wont be too worried if those are the worst things people have to say about us. Also i have mentioned that there are a lot of other things that people might not like us for, some of them include the things you mentioned, public toilets, cleanliness, hygiene, corruption etc etc. I will add lack on discipline on roads, bus stops, even airports. Also people not following the rules/laws. These are the real things i will worry about and want these to be corrected. Saying this from a tourist point of view!


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> Also i have mentioned that there are a lot of other things that people might not like us for, some of them include the things you mentioned, public toilets, cleanliness, hygiene, corruption etc etc. I will add lack on discipline on roads, bus stops, even airports. Also people not following the rules/laws. These are the real things i will worry about and want these to be corrected. Saying this from a tourist point of view!



But there is no need to highlight such shortcomings. Right?

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## Arsalan

VCheng said:


> But there is no need to highlight such shortcomings. Right?


There is, she have, don't you see the thread on this very forum? I though you are posting in that too!  Its not locked, its not deleted. Please recheck


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> There is, she have, don't you see the thread on this very forum? I though you are posting in that too!  Its not locked, its not deleted. Please recheck



Think of the image!


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## Arsalan

VCheng said:


> Think of the image!


mmmmm,, or misconception?


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> mmmmm,, or misconception?



All the problems you mention are really relative. Tourists who are adventuresome visit such places all over the world and kind of know what to expect. Pakistan does not need to be perfect, it just needs to be relatively better than others competing for the same tourist dollars.

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## Arsalan

VCheng said:


> All the problems you mention are really relative. Tourists who are adventuresome visit such places all over the world and kind of know what to expect. Pakistan does not need to be perfect, it just needs to be relatively better than others competing for the same tourist dollars.


Ahh bro, you have touched a topic close to my heart. Will come back with a detailed reply (i hope to) soon.

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## B.K.N

VCheng said:


> All the problems you mention are really relative. Tourists who are adventuresome visit such places all over the world and kind of know what to expect. Pakistan does not need to be perfect, it just needs to be relatively better than others competing for the same tourist dollars.



They do consider these places as human zoo

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## JohnWick

VCheng said:


> That will help with the "Phew de Toilette" a lot.


Indeed ....


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## Crusher

VCheng said:


> All the problems you mention are really relative. *Tourists who are adventuresome visit such places all over the world and kind of know what to expect.* Pakistan does not need to be perfect, it just needs to be relatively better than others competing for the same tourist dollars.



Yes that is the case at least with northern europeans like germans. Their worldview is very different than pakistanis', these foreign tourists know pretty well that they are travelling to 3rd world countries, they don't really want or expect to see a new "germany or german standards" while visiting 3rd world countries in Asia, Africa or Latin America, even the Italy and Spain are also very "exotic" and "chaotic" places for germans yet they travel there frequently for their holidays just to experience sunny beaches and genuine Mediterranean cusine. But there is a deep sense of insecurity and inferiority complex among "kalay angraiz" running the affairs of Pakistani state since the last 7 decades, they think that "foreign tourists" don't visit pakistan because pakistan lacks "first world facilities", that is ridiculous argument. The only thing that matter for european or american tourists is that there is at least a minimum standard of organized travel, food and accommodation. And off course there is no compromise on security whether they are roaming in their own country or a foreign country. These tourists will always choose a "more secure" 3rd world country over a "less secure" 3rd world country if there is a competition between the two.

One thing that I have noticed is that Pakistani government advertises "mountains" of northern pakistan as some kind of unique "tourist attractions" for foreign tourists. Northern European landscape is far more better looking than any mountains anywhere in pakistan including hunza or gilgit etc. Majority of European tourists have no interest to see "mountains" when they visit a foreign country, they are more interested to experience some unique culture and traditions of their destination countries. Warm beaches are far more popular among european/american tourists than sh1tty mountains. "Basant" kite flying festival that we used to have in Lahore and other cities of Pakistan is far better cultural experience for marketing the tourism in Pakistan than the sh1tty mountains that pakistan tourist department is marketing since decades without any success. Even big village cultural and local sports "Melas" in Punjab will attract a lot of foreign tourists if marketed than mountains. For god sake most foreign tourists have no interest in seeing mountains in other countries, they have abundance of them in their own countries.

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## war&peace

VCheng said:


> But there is no need to highlight such shortcomings. Right?


We should take constructive criticism positively if we want to improve. Otherwise, the country will stay like the mess it is right now while rest of the world will progress leaving us behind in the dust. This negative mentality needs to be changed and thankfully such backward and reticent elements are reducing in dwindling in numbers as more and more youth is getting aware through social media.


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## VCheng

Arsalan said:


> Ahh bro, you have touched a topic close to my heart. Will come back with a detailed reply (i hope to) soon.



Tag @Dubious too in your reply, he (  ) is interested in this area too.



Simurgh said:


> Yes that is the case at least with northern europeans like germans. Their worldview is very different than pakistanis', these foreign tourists know pretty well that they are travelling to 3rd world countries, they don't really want or expect to see a new "germany or german standards" while visiting 3rd world countries in Asia, Africa or Latin America, even the Italy and Spain are also very "exotic" and "chaotic" places for germans yet they travel there frequently for their holidays just to experience sunny beaches and genuine Mediterranean cusine. But there is a deep sense of insecurity and inferiority complex among "kalay angraiz" running the affairs of Pakistani state since the last 7 decades, they think that "foreign tourists" don't visit pakistan because pakistan lacks "first world facilities", that is ridiculous argument. The only thing that matter for european or american tourists is that there is at least a minimum standard of organized travel, food and accommodation. And off course there is no compromise on security whether they are roaming in their own country or a foreign country. These tourists will always choose a "more secure" 3rd world country over a "less secure" 3rd world country if there is a competition between the two.
> 
> One thing that I have noticed is that Pakistani government advertises "mountains" of northern pakistan as some kind of unique "tourist attractions" for foreign tourists. Northern European landscape is far more better looking than any mountains anywhere in pakistan including hunza or gilgit etc. Majority of European tourists have no interest to see "mountains" when they visit a foreign country, they are more interested to experience some unique culture and traditions of their destination countries. Warm beaches are far more popular among european/american tourists than sh1tty mountains. "Basant" kite flying festival that we used to have in Lahore and other cities of Pakistan is far better cultural experience for marketing the tourism in Pakistan than the sh1tty mountains that pakistan tourist department is marketing since decades without any success. Even big village cultural and local sports "Melas" in Punjab will attract a lot of foreign tourists if marketed than mountains. For god sake most foreign tourists have no interest in seeing mountains in other countries, they have abundance of them in their own countries.



The problem with marketing beaches is whether the local population can accept what tourists would like to do on said beaches.

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## Crusher

VCheng said:


> [B]The problem with marketing beaches is whether the local population can accept what tourists would like to do on said beaches.[/B]




An isolated island beach south of Pakistan' coastline can be developed for foreign tourists to bypass the "population" sensitivities.


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## HAIDER

dexter said:


> This is a video I have wanted to make for a while now. It's important for me to be open and transparent and tell you the truth about the countries I visit. You all know how much I love Pakistan but there are some things I feel are letting the country down which need to be talked about. All of the points I mentioned are things that Pakistan can improve on with a little bit of conscious effort. So come find out what /I dislike about Pakistan and let me know what you think. I appreciate all of your feedback but please don't be mean.
> Thank you


Do we need to listen what you hate ... lol j/k


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## VCheng

Simurgh said:


> An isolated island beach south of Pakistan' coastline can be developed for foreign tourists to bypass the "population" sensitivities.



Probably. Until a manipulated crowd turns up to burn it down.


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## Crusher

VCheng said:


> Probably. Until a manipulated crowd turns up to burn it down.



How the hell can a manipulated crowd turn up to an isolated island which will be protected with the highest security, in which world do you live?


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## VCheng

Simurgh said:


> How the hell can a manipulated crown turn up to an isolated island which will be protected with the highest security, in which world do you live?



Please do read up on certain incidents in Pakistan's history.


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## 313ghazi

I assumed you were a bloke, mind you i assume everyone on PDF is a man.

I agreed with your complaints, well not the healthy food one, who wants healthy food?! lol

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## war&peace

VCheng said:


> All the problems you mention are really relative. Tourists who are adventuresome visit such places all over the world and kind of know what to expect. Pakistan does not need to be perfect, it just needs to be relatively better than others competing for the same tourist dollars.


Hey, these issues may bug some tourists but these are a lot more important for Pakistanis themselves. Clealiness, hygiene, corruption, public toilets are not just the requirement for tourists rather the local need it more than foreign visitor who will leave the place after a short stay (days, weeks or months).



Simurgh said:


> An isolated island beach south of Pakistan' coastline can be developed for foreign tourists to bypass the "population" sensitivities.


No need for wasting money of developing beeches for tourists and also creating problems for the locals and tourists. Just focus on developing a nature destination ...where both the interests of tourists and local converge and people are friendly towards them. But if tourists start disrespecting the local culture, there will be a backlash. We are an Islamic country and we should always respect this reality.


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## HAIDER

313ghazi said:


> I assumed you were a bloke, mind you i assume everyone on PDF is a man.
> 
> I agreed with your complaints, well not the healthy food one, who wants healthy food?! lol


naaaa . i will listen and discuss later lol .


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## Hiraa

VCheng said:


> Cleaned? Now it is still an open sewer rather an an open sewer choked with plastic trash.


Open sewers are everywhere in pakistan. In 70 years, done nothing to close them.


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## VCheng

Hiraa said:


> Open sewers are everywhere in pakistan. In 70 years, done nothing to close them.



Open sewers are cheaper to construct and easier to maintain, may be that is why they are made in such a way.


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## dexter

313ghazi said:


> I assumed you were a bloke, mind you i assume everyone on PDF is a man.
> 
> I agreed with your complaints, well not the healthy food one, who wants healthy food?! lol



Sorry to disappoint, the description written below is from her video its not my personal opinion. 
I just wanted to share some criticism since 99% threads here are positive ones and it doesn't bother me to acknowledge these facts she pointed out.

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## 313ghazi

dexter said:


> Sorry to disappoint, the description written below is from her video its not my personal opinion.
> I just wanted to share some criticism since 99% threads here are positive ones and it doesn't bother me to acknowledge these facts she pointed out.



acha - false flagging.


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## Hiraa

VCheng said:


> Open sewers are cheaper to construct and easier to maintain, may be that is why they are made in such a way.


Well the smell is hazardous to not only health but also the machinery used in nearby houses.


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## Hiraa

Pollution. No clean air to breathe here.


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## war&peace

313ghazi said:


> acha - false flagging.


@dexter is a good member and genuine person. I have followed him since a long time and I like this posts / thread. He is not a false flagger.

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## VCheng

Hiraa said:


> Well the smell is hazardous to not only health but also the machinery used in nearby houses.



The smell is unpleasant, but only initially. Many people just get used to it for certain areas. Zafar Ali road through posh areas of Lahore is a good example.


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## B.K.N

As if we care for what she thinks


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## Stealth

*Interesting Fact about Pakistan. Pakistan is on No# 3rd in the world where most of the people speak English ... Easy for foreigners to communicate with the locals according to the latest Index. (Russian State Television Reported).

It is extremely hard for the visitors to communicate with locals in Europe (Including Turkey), Middle East (especially) and Asia Pacific regions where majority can't speak in int language.
*

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## 313ghazi

war&peace said:


> @dexter is a good member and genuine person. I have followed him since a long time and I like this posts / thread. He is not a false flagger.



I was joking bro. The video description was by the girl who made it, but I assumed it was Dexters own opinion because of how it was posted. Hence the joking remark false flagging as a girl...lol

No ill intention at all.  Simply making light of my own confusion.

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## war&peace

313ghazi said:


> I was joking bro. The video description was by the girl who made it, but I assumed it was Dexters own opinion because of how it was posted. Hence the joking remark false flagging as a girl...lol
> 
> No ill intention at all.  Simply making light of my own confusion.


OK good, BTW this youtuber is a very positive person. I have followed her as well. She loves Pakistan and tries to portray Pakistan in a positive light but these are very genuine points she raised since my observation and thoughts are same except the salad point. In fact I posted it before so I ask the mods @Arsalan @Dubious to merge them
She is so right about it

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## UzaySan

Stealth said:


> *Interesting Fact about Pakistan. Pakistan is on No# 3rd in the world where most of the people speak English ... Easy for foreigners to communicate with the locals according to the latest Index. (Russian State Television Reported).
> 
> It is extremely hard for the visitors to communicate with locals in Europe (Including Turkey), Middle East (especially) and Asia Pacific regions where majority can't speak in int language.*



Why are you yelling?


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## Hiraa

VCheng said:


> The smell is unpleasant, but only initially. Many people just get used to it for certain areas. Zafar Ali road through posh areas of Lahore is a good example.


Nope. It affects machinery/electronics like AC or washing machines too. I know it because I live near one and lots of complains regarding to the sewer are registered in the community office.


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## Sinnerman108

war&peace said:


> @dexter is a good member and genuine person. I have followed him since a long time and I like this posts / thread. He is not a false flagger.



As seen from the first post, 
it seems @dexter is a woman.

I have been following this set of videos, and seem almost all of them. 
She never tells her name !

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## VCheng

Hiraa said:


> Nope. *It affects machinery/electronics like AC or washing machines too. *I know it because I live near one and lots of complains regarding to the sewer are registered in the community office.



Apart from the smell, how do open sewers it affect ACs or washing machines? Just curious.


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## war&peace

Sinnerman108 said:


> As seen from the first post,
> it seems @dexter is a woman.
> 
> I have been following this set of videos, and seem almost all of them.
> She never tells her name !


As per his profile, he is a man and 25 yrs old..and for me that is more than sufficient info..It does not bother me what is the gender of the member on PDF.

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## dexter

I would like to remain silent on my gender, lets see where it goes


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## VCheng

dexter said:


> I would like to remain silent on my gender, lets see where it goes



Not that there is anything wrong with any choice.

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## Dubious

dexter said:


> This is a video I have wanted to make for a while now. It's important for me to be open and transparent and tell you the truth about the countries I visit. You all know how much I love Pakistan but there are some things I feel are letting the country down which need to be talked about. All of the points I mentioned are things that Pakistan can improve on with a little bit of conscious effort. So come find out what /I dislike about Pakistan and let me know what you think. I appreciate all of your feedback but please don't be mean.
> Thank you


OK she said she hate 6 things WHICH HOLD US BACK (Her words)

So, let me summarize:


*Trash*
Servant culture
*Rattafication education*
*unhygienic *food + food poisoning = charcoal pills?
the amount of oil + complaining abt salad?
Counterfeit
My answer:

*YES this is an issue *
THIS is not holding us BACK (as per her words), we have a large population of poor people who can be exploited...and it is the case with every other country with such a problem! Yes some people are cruel to their "staff" ...but it has very little to do with the servant culture and more to do with bad habits! I mean it is not like UK doesnt have bad people who treat others less?! There is an outline of work ethics which get violated very often! Bad people exist everywhere! So this cant possibly be an issue to raise like poverty/ child abuse or spouse abuse!
*YES this is an issue everyone has pointed out*
Charcoal pills never help with food poisoning (THIS I found was her lack of knowledge and maybe showcasing her ignorance)...My guess is her stomach isnt used to microbes / oily food like many of the First world people...I mean we have international vlogging chefs coming over eating off the streets...who get food poisoned but never complained like her!
Oil was stupid....the amount of oil America uses is also can be complained abt- is it holding America back? And her complain abt the salad was totally stupid! I am sorry but salad is prepared in multiple ways in different countries! Some with Mayo, some with olive oil, some with yoghurt...and raw salad isnt something to laugh abt VERY IMMATURE in my honest opinion!
THAT isnt holding Pakistan back (as she started with this- my analysis of her points is based on this).....We are bordering with China this shouldnt even be a shocker nor something to point out! I mean people from Southeast Asia travel to Thailand to buy counterfeit items! It is a booming market...If some factories can make the same looking brand and sell for cheaper...maybe it is time for LARGE BRANDS who dont pay taxes in USA to sell at a lower price! I am totally against brands which have factories in CHINA/ BD and other countries to sell for as much as they used to when it was built in USA (30 yrs ago)

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## dexter

Dubious said:


> OK she said she hate 6 things WHICH HOLD US BACK (Her words)
> 
> So, let me summarize:
> 
> 
> Trash
> Servant culture
> Rattafication education
> unhygienic food + food poisoning = charcoal pills?
> the amount of oil + complaining abt salad?
> Counterfeit
> My answer:
> 
> YES this is an issue
> THIS is not holding us BACK (as per her words), we have a large population of poor people who can be exploited...and it is the case with every other country with such a problem! Yes some people are cruel to their "staff" ...but it has very little to do with the servant culture and more to do with bad habits! I mean it is not like UK doesnt have bad people who treat others less?! There is an outline of work ethics which get violated very often! Bad people exist everywhere! So this cant possibly be an issue to raise like poverty/ child abuse or spouse abuse!
> YES this is an issue everyone has pointed out
> Charcoal pills never help with food poisoning (THIS I found was her lack of knowledge and maybe showcasing her ignorance)...My guess is her stomach isnt used to microbes / oily food like many of the First world people...I mean we have international vlogging chefs coming over eating off the streets...who get food poisoned but never complained like her!
> Oil was stupid....the amount of oil America uses is also can be complained abt- is it holding America back? And her complain abt the salad was totally stupid! I am sorry but salad is prepared in multiple ways in different countries! Some with Mayo, some with olive oil, some with yoghurt...and raw salad isnt something to laugh abt VERY IMMATURE in my honest opinion!
> THAT isnt holding Pakistan back (as she started with this- my analysis of her points is based on this).....We are bordering with China this shouldnt even be a shocker nor something to point out! I mean people from Southeast Asia travel to Thailand to buy counterfeit items! It is a booming market...If some factories can make the same looking brand and sell for cheaper...maybe it is time for LARGE BRANDS who dont pay taxes in USA to sell at a lower price! I am totally against brands which have factories in CHINA/ BD and other countries to sell for as much as they used to when it was built in USA (30 yrs ago)



Totally agree with you.
I too find half of her points lame.
Specially with point #5, i dont understand whats wrong with these Pakistani goras.

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> there are no toilet paper and cleanliness is horrible


I dont think the common man uses toilet paper and in MOST public toilet on highway / motorway I have seen the Muslim shower (hose) thing ....THAT is our culture and it is good enough coz less than 1% would be tourists who visit those while majority will be our people who will want to use those!



dexter said:


> Totally agree with you.
> I too find half of her points lame.
> Specially with point #5, i dont understand whats wrong with these Pakistani goras.


She claimed she is not Pakistani just some bimbo with charcoal pills to counter food poisoning by microbes 

*PEOPLE leave @dexter 's gender out of the discussion please *

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> I dont think the common man uses toilet paper and in MOST public toilet on highway / motorway I have seen the Muslim shower (hose) thing ....THAT is our culture and it is good enough coz less than 1% would be tourists who visit those while majority will be our people who will want to use those!


As a Muslim I use both...after using the shower + soap (I have bidé in my home & offices), I use toilet paper to dry because here we wear pants with briefs under / inside. But in Pakistan people mostly wear the shalwar which is quite loose and airy so it dries pretty quickly and thus they don't need toilet paper that much but in my family houses in Pakistan, everyone has toilet rolls. But in public toilets, toilet papers is not available which is quite disturbing..so one solution I have is to carry some rolls in the boot/trunk of the vehicle.

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> in my family houses in Pakistan, everyone has toilet rolls. But in public toilets, toilet papers is not available which is quite disturbing..so one solution I have is to carry some rolls in the boot/trunk of the vehicle.


Toilet paper is a luxury in Pakistan to provide it in toilets - where people will take rolls home (yes people have a problem of taking things home) would be a problem! PLUS if you want toilet paper, carry some from home as you suggested but no need to put it as an excuse for our lack of progress (as this youtuber states these are POINTS WHICH HOLD US BACK)

And mind you, MANY public toilets in UK dont have water and some run out of tissue paper, so this isnt even a point! And American public toilets are smelly as well, should I open a vlog to complain?

The public toilet on the Bangkok airport didnt have water nor tissue paper at one time...Now they have a Muslim section where we they have a surau (prayer room) and one of the toilet in *that *section have water!

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## Super Falcon

One we are allpaki done phd in idiotship stupidity


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Toilet paper is a luxury in Pakistan to provide it in toilets - where people will take rolls home (yes people have a problem of taking things home) would be a problem! PLUS if you want toilet paper, carry some from home as you suggested but no need to put it as an excuse for our lack of progress (as this youtuber states these are POINTS WHICH HOLD US BACK)
> 
> And mind you, MANY public toilets in UK dont have water and some run out of tissue paper, so this isnt even a point! And American public toilets are smelly as well, should I open a vlog to complain?
> 
> The public toilet on the Bangkok airport didnt have water nor tissue paper at one time...Now they have a Muslim section where we they have a surau (prayer room) and one of the toilet in *that *section have water!


Most of the airports lack water in the toilets except Muslim countries so definitely that's a problem in the west or outside Muslim world. 

Overall sanitation in public toilets in Pakistan is really bad .it is just disgusting so toilet papers are least of the worries...so yes toilet roll seems to be a luxury (it is a necessity in the west). 

In GCC, Malaysia, Turkey and most of the developed Muslim countries, you find both the water and the paper. Also in Pakistani hotels you find both.


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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> Also in Pakistani hotels you find both.


Hotels you pay for the service...Public toilets mostly are free in Pakistan...those paid ones are reasonably ok...


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Hotels you pay for the service...Public toilets mostly are free in Pakistan...those paid ones are reasonably ok...


Well, I would say we should open special public toilets for tourist in particular tourist areas and those should be paid can be as much as they charge in UK or other western countries like in Sweden, you have to pay 5 kr. which is around PKR 80. Those toilets should have toilet papers, western seats and a shower or bide. And should be cleaned regularly on daily basis. This will be quite profitable business.


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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> you have to pay 5 kr. which is around PKR 80. Those toilets should have toilet papers, western seats and a shower or bide. And should be cleaned regularly on daily basis. This will be quite profitable business.


Knowing my people they will start defecating in public than pay for a toilet! Many dont understand cleanliness coz if they did they wouldnt pollute and throw rubbish! Rs 80 isnt something anyone would pay...maybe Rs 5 -10 (I am talking abt common Pakistani) would be something one would pay...

However, 5 - 10 wont pay for maintainance...You need to change the mentality of people - pose fines for public crap and then when there is no choice put abt Rs 50 for toilets to maintain them! And again, toilet paper isnt in our culture so expecting that is going above and beyond...it is like expecting a bidet in American public toilets!


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Knowing my people they will start defecating in public than pay for a toilet! Many dont understand cleanliness coz if they did they wouldnt pollute and throw rubbish! Rs 80 isnt something anyone would pay...maybe Rs 5 -10 (I am talking abt common Pakistani) would be something one would pay...


I see you don't even bother to read my posts correctly and then you call me harsh. *I clearly mentioned especially for tourists.. *



war&peace said:


> Well, I would say we should open special public toilets for tourist in particular tourist areas and those should be paid can be as much as they charge in UK or other western countries like in Sweden, you have to pay 5 kr. which is around PKR 80.


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> And American public toilets are smelly as well, should I open a vlog to complain?



Absolutely YES!

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> I see you don't even bother to read my posts correctly and then you call me harsh. *I clearly mentioned especially for tourists.. *


I read Mr. smarty pants! But we dont discriminate (nor is this an issue to make one out of)...And for your kind info to have such "achievements" you need to build a narrative first 

SO FAR we have MORE LOCAL TOURISTS than the posh tissue users visiting such places! And for your kind information, it isnt hard to carry a role of tissue with you! Or wipes as some tourists do even when they leave their homes for other destinations!



VCheng said:


> Absolutely YES!


dont troll me! I only visited 2 states it isnt enough to bitch abt nor do I feel *such petty issues* need to be aired as though you are some really professional over accomplished person in the field!


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> I read Mr. smarty pants! But we dont discriminate (nor is this an issue to make one out of)...And for your kind info to have such "achievements" you need to build a narrative first
> 
> SO FAR we have MORE LOCAL TOURISTS than the posh tissue users visiting such places! And for your kind information, it isnt hard to carry a role of tissue with you! Or wipes as some tourists do even when they leave their homes for other destinations!



It is not called discrimination rather facilitating. Do you see the glaring discrepancies in your logic?...just a few posts ago you mentioned that Bangkok airport has a toilet with Muslim shower next to a masjid so a non-Muslim country has built not only a Masjid but also a special toilet for Muslim visitors. Is it a discrimination?
While Pakistan (current govt) is trying to promote our country as a tourist destination but still some people are not ready to provide to basic necessities like good toilets for the tourists by the way PM IK has already said that Pakistan needs better toilets and her point is totally inline with PM's vision about Pakistan. I'm sure, this suggestion will be welcomed by the concerned ministry and I will make it.


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> dont troll me! I only visited 2 states it isnt enough to bitch abt nor do I feel *such petty issues* need to be aired as though you are some really professional over accomplished person in the field!



Not trolling. You have far more travelling experience than most here:

https://theculturetrip.com/north-am...f-americans-have-never-left-their-home-state/

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> facilitating


facilitating ONLY a certain group of people is called discrimination


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> And for your kind information, it isnt hard to carry a role of tissue with you! Or wipes as some tourists do even when they leave their homes for other destinations!



Wet Wipes. Never leave home without it.

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> .just a few posts ago you mentioned that Bangkok airport has a toilet with Muslim shower next to a masjid so a non-Muslim country has built not only a Masjid but also a special toilet for Muslim visitors. Is it a discrimination?


No it is not we didnt demand it...like you are doing so...incredibly enough no other vlogger made such demands!



war&peace said:


> provide to basic necessities like good toilets for the tourists


Better toilets does not always mean must have tissue...Carry your own tissues! 



VCheng said:


> Wet Wipes. Never leave home without it.


Exactly...I travel with some form of tissues mostly wet wipes but I would never demand any toilet let alone in a developing country to provide it for me....So far I have seen British toilets replace tissue with those hand blowers even some Middle eastern countries use the hand blowers which I am not a fan of


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> facilitating ONLY a certain group of people is called discrimination


Ok so what about Bangkok airport Masjid and toilet with shower...?


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Not trolling. You have far more travelling experience than most here:
> 
> https://theculturetrip.com/north-am...f-americans-have-never-left-their-home-state/


I have read that someplace...An American friend of mine was complaining how some people in her kid's class actually thought some of the other states were another country! 



war&peace said:


> Ok so what about Bangkok airport Masjid and toilet with shower...?


They provided it...shower with water not tissue...

Water is the same water you use to shower/ bathe and clean yourself...I dont see people using tissue to wipe themselves and going to work/ class!


And mind you, the Muslim toilet in Bangkok wasnt demanded for.

Nor does it provide tissue just water to wash coz they want tourists from Middle east so did the bare minimum. And the toilet isnt charged but then again Thailand isnt in austerity drive is it?


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Exactly...I travel with some form of tissues mostly wet wipes but I would never demand any toilet let alone in a developing country to provide it for me....So far I have seen British toilets replace tissue with those hand blowers even some Middle eastern countries use the hand blowers which I am not a fan of



The blowers spray fine droplets everywhere. Hand sanitizer works.

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## war&peace

VCheng said:


> Not trolling. You have far more travelling experience than most here:
> 
> https://theculturetrip.com/north-am...f-americans-have-never-left-their-home-state/


That's true...most of Americans have never visited any country outside USA...and even out those who visit...most of them go to Canada only...which is like another state of USA with some different rules and cheaper medical care


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> I have read that someplace...An American friend of mine was complaining how some people in her kid's class actually thought some of the other states were another country!



Technically, they are indeed separate states, a word that can be interchanged with country. The only difference is that they have agreed to unite over certain aspects such as currency and defense.

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> The blowers spray fine droplets everywhere. Hand sanitizer works.


When you study microbiology you just feel like vomiting everywhere! I remember when I learnt it in BSc...dear god I became a germophobe


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> When you study microbiology you just feel like vomiting everywhere! I remember when I learnt it in BSc...dear god I became a germophobe



Remember there are good microbes too. And bad microbes.


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Technically, they are indeed separate states, a word that can be interchanged with country. The only difference is that they have agreed to unite over certain aspects such as currency and defense.


yea but still same country!



VCheng said:


> Remember there are good microbes too. And bad microbes.


Well aware...Loved my Microbio class...but never went further in it coz I found fermentation somewhat boring


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> They provided it...shower with water not tissue...


Still discrimination as per your definition


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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> Still discrimination as per your definition


Not at all...not catering to a specific class ...nor people coz even the non Muslims used it! So it really isnt discriminating if everyone can and do use it!


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> yea but still same country!



Technically, no. They are different States that agreed to be united over currency, defense and foreign policy.



Dubious said:


> Well aware...Loved my Microbio class...but never went further in it coz I found fermentation somewhat boring



Some people find fermentation and its uses fascinating.


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Technically, no. They are different States that agreed to be united over currency, defense and foreign policy.


Well they agreed to be united and that agreement made them 1 country 

even UAE is united Arab Emirates are separate Emirates with an Emir each...but are still united under 1 country same as UK!


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Well they agreed to be united and that agreement made them 1 country
> 
> even UAE is united Arab Emirates are separate Emirates with an Emir each...but are still united under 1 country same as UK!



Isn't UK three different countries now?


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Some people find fermentation and its uses fascinating.


I aint one of them ...couldnt stand the lectures loved the labs though!  
Safe to say I got good grades but refused to take the microbio project and ended up with food tech project which also involved fermentation  the irony!



VCheng said:


> Isn't UK three different countries now?


it is 4 well depends what you call the Irish part...but still no one going to Scotland or Wales claims they went to a different country then again British prob have a different mentality and think whole world is still British 

As oppose to Americans who think their own state is another country

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> I aint one of them ...couldnt stand the lectures loved the labs though!
> Safe to say I got good grades but refused to take the microbio project and ended up with food tech project which also involved fermentation  the irony!
> 
> 
> it is 4 well depends what you call the Irish part...but still no one going to Scotland or Wales claims they went to a different country then again British prob have a different mentality and think whole world is still British
> 
> As oppose to Americans who think their own state is another country



All y'all know Murrikans be dumb!

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> All y'all know Murrikans be dumb!


Different perspective / acceptance rate

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Not at all...not catering to a specific class ...nor people coz even the non Muslims used it! So it really isnt discriminating if everyone can and do use it!


Even Pakistani can use those toilets if they pay the fee ..And it is not for specific group entire world other than Pakistan would love to use clean toilets.


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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> if they pay the fee


there is the discrimination...we already have a VIP culture no need to feed into it!


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> there is the discrimination...we already have a VIP culture no need to feed into it!


Well, it is all over the world... Don't you have 3, 4, 5 hotels? Are they free? or different classes of travel services..economy, business, first? So why not toilets?


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## Crusher

VCheng said:


> Open sewers are cheaper to construct and easier to maintain, may be that is why they are made in such a way.



Most of the indigenous people in Pakistan used to live in villages just 50 years ago, in villages the sewerage system is interesting one, so every village has one of more "ponds" (called Chappar in punjabi language) near the houses, all the sewer lines used to empty in those chappar ponds. This is the only method people knew for centuries so when they shifted to urban areas they didn't know what to do so many of them still relied on that age old system but just channeled sewer lines to nearby wasteland, water stream or river etc.

It was government's duty to implement modern sewerage system in Pakistan at least in urban areas, but government in the past was always selective as only the planned localities were connected to government sewerage system whereas the mushroom "kach abadis" on the outskirts of the city just utilized their age old chappar sewerage system.

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> Well, it is all over the world... Don't you have 3, 4, 5 hotels? Are they free? or different classes of travel services..economy, business, first? So why not toilets?


So you now you want elite toilets just coz you yourself cant adapt? Bravo! We dont need anyone to divide Pakistan...we got Pakistanis doing a fair good of a job!

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> So you now you want elite toilets just coz you yourself cant adapt? Bravo! We dont need anyone to divide Pakistan...we got Pakistanis doing a fair good of a job!


lolzzz this is so regressive... can you justify 3, 4, 5 star hotels..This is not elite culture because anyone who can pay, can use them. Get your definitions right. It is practiced all over the world. Are all people living in same houses?

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## VCheng

Simurgh said:


> Most of the indigenous people in Pakistan used to live in villages just 50 years, in villages the sewerage system is interesting one, so every village has one of more "ponds" (called Chappar in punjabi language) near the houses, all the sewer lines used to empty in those chappar ponds. This is the only method people knew for centuries so when they shifted to urban areas they didn't know what to do so many of them still relied on that age old system but just channeled sewer lines to nearby wasteland, water stream or river etc.
> 
> It was government's duty to implement modern sewerage system in Pakistan at least in urban areas, but government in the past was always selective as only the planned localities were connected to government sewerage system whereas the mushroom "kach abadis" on the outskirts of the city just utilized their age old chappar sewerage system.



A good explanation of why most people are quite accepting of open sewage systems in Pakistan, a fact that many tourists would find notable - if they know about it before visiting.

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## Wa Muhammada

war&peace said:


> My observations are the same. We need to improve ourselves in these areas if we really want a sustainable tourism industry
> I have watched her videos about Pakistan. She is a positive & genuine person. But these are real issues so please keep that in mind or just watch her videos about Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​



What I don’t like....

Corruption at every level in every govt office, from top to bottom, no transparency. Whether you go to get a ‘fard’ from your patwari or buy land... at every step you have to overcome obstacles ($$$).

Legal system ....flimsy cases go on and on for 30-40yrs - WTF!?!

Police - they are thugs in uniform. Not to forget they are inept and inefficient. To get an FIR registered is an achievement!

Roads/highways need regular repair/ maintenance. 

Banks - hardly anyone queues. You’ve got 6 ppl hugging each other in extreme heat with a hand through the counter window - hoping to get served next and the clerk has a face like a slapped arse.

I could go on but I still prefer Pakistan to the UK which is my country of birth.



ghazi52 said:


> Gilgit City
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=431490540768663
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cleaned after social media backlash.
> 
> Photo: Zahid Raley



Yep that’s disgusting—- same story in every canal / river


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## Crusher

VCheng said:


> A good explanation of why most people are quite accepting of open sewage systems in Pakistan, a fact that many tourists would find notable - if they know about it before visiting.



Yes there is a historical background about open sewerage systems in Pakistan, so people are psychologically adapted to this system and all the "smells" associated with it for centuries. We were just not an urban culture, I think before 1947 Pakistan was no less than 85% rural.


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## VCheng

Simurgh said:


> Yes there is a historical background about open sewerage systems in Pakistan, so people are psychologically adapted to this system and all the "smells" associated with it for centuries. We were just not an urban culture, I think before 1947 Pakistan was no less than 85% rural.



The best part is that all the beautiful photos of Pakistan hide this part of the "natural landscape" in Pakistan.



Wa Muhammada said:


> What I don’t like....
> 
> Corruption at every level in every govt office, from top to bottom, no transparency. Whether you go to get a ‘fard’ from your patwari or buy land... at every step you have to overcome obstacles ($$$).
> 
> Legal system ....flimsy cases go on and on for 30-40yrs - WTF!?!
> 
> Police - they are thugs in uniform. Not to forget they are inept and inefficient. To get an FIR registered is an achievement!
> 
> Roads/highways need regular repair/ maintenance.
> 
> Banks - hardly anyone queues. You’ve got 6 ppl hugging each other in extreme heat with a hand through the counter window - hoping to get served next and the clerk has a face like a slapped arse.
> 
> I could go on but I still prefer Pakistan to the UK which is my country of birth.
> 
> 
> 
> Yep that’s disgusting—- same story in every canal / river



That is all Purana Pakistan.

We now have the Naya Pakistan.

==========================================

(And I will never think of mentioning on PDF what many men will be doing with one of their hands in public in a certain part of their anatomy. Constantly.)

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> lolzzz this is so regressive... can you justify 3, 4, 5 star hotels..This is not elite culture because anyone who can pay, can use them. Get your definitions right. It is practiced all over the world. Are all people living in same houses?


Having 3,4,5 star toilet is elite culture! Coz PUBLIC toilet is not the same as a hotel!


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Having 3,4,5 star toilet is elite culture! Coz PUBLIC toilet is not the same as a hotel!


This is not elite culture...or if you call this elite culture then listen...it even existed in Holy Prophet(ﷺ)'s time as well. As expensive horses, camels, expensive and cheap cloth, better quality food etc were available at higher prices and there were poor and rich companions of the Holy Prophet like Abdur Rehman bin Auf and Caliph Usman (may Allah be pleased with them).
So this kind of elite culture has always existed. BTW no body becomes an elite because he or she uses a toilet paper or western style seat. We need to over come our insecurities and complexes.

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## Dubious

war&peace said:


> As expensive horses, camels, expensive and cheap cloth, better quality food etc were available at higher prices and they were poor and rich companions of the Holy Prophet like Abdur Rehman bin Auf and Caliph Usman (may Allah be pleased with them).


So now toilets are a commodity?

Kindly drop the subject and learn to let go!



war&peace said:


> BTW no body becomes an elite because he or she uses a toilet paper or western style seat. We need to over come our insecurities and complexes.


No they become elite when they can demand their own "public" toilet which btw, means is run on public money to clean and maintain! 

Carry a trailer if you are in a need for a 5 star treatment! After all, I am sure elites can afford that!


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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> So now toilets are a commodity?
> 
> Kindly drop the subject and learn to let go!


It is a service and services can also be charged at different rates. 



Dubious said:


> learn to let go!


I think it goes both way right?

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## Crusher

war&peace said:


> This is not elite culture...or if you call this elite culture then listen...it even existed in Holy Prophet(ﷺ)'s time as well. As expensive horses, camels, expensive and cheap cloth, better quality food etc were available at higher prices and they were poor and rich companions of the Holy Prophet like Abdur Rehman bin Auf and Caliph Usman (may Allah be pleased with them).
> So this kind of elite culture has always existed. BTW no body becomes an elite because he or she uses a toilet paper or western style seat. We need to over come our insecurities and complexes.



Mine is a paindu pretty lower middle class family and even we also have constructed a separate commode toilet in our home in addition to the traditional ones. I don't really understand what is "elite" in using toilet papers and commode. If using these things is elitist then even the use of pakistani style sitting toilet is also elitist because just 50 years ago people used to go in open fields to do their stuff, so to avoid "elitism" we should probably go back to our indigenous open field toilet system of the past.

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Carry a trailer if you are in a need for a 5 star treatment! After all, I am sure elites can afford that!


Again, elite  I told you using a toilet paper won't turn you into an elite so kindly drop this elite phobia because it is not. It is just a need for different people. Pakistan has to open up to become a tourist destination.

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## Dubious

Simurgh said:


> Mine is a paindu pretty lower middle class family and even we also have constructed a separate commode toilet in our home in addition to the traditional ones. I don't really understand what is "elite" in using toilet papers and commode. If using these things is elitist then even the use of pakistani style sitting toilet is also elitist because just 50 years ago people used to go in open fields to do their stuff, so to avoid "elitism" we should probably go back to field toilet system.


I dont think you people understand the meaning of public toilets....

Public toilets is for the use of the public...

Some are free and the govt pays for their cleanliness, maintenance and treatment of the sewage! All which cost money! 

Now putting tissue paper = 
1) costly
2) the way many use it in Pakistan - it clogs the toilet = increased maintenance...

Now if you are charging 10-20 Rs ---that does jack shit to the expenses! 

If you are charging 100 -200 Rs = not many would pay and we DO know for a FACT / GROUND REALITIES that people do piss in the open! Unfortunately SOME do! And this SOME might increase to MANY if you start charging high amounts! While charging low wont keep it maintained and will result in a waste of resources to build when it gets clogged every other day! 

EASIEST SOLUTION is carry your own tissue paper! Why burden my country for your comforts!

ELITE culture = *EXTRA* COMFORTS THAT WILL BURDEN MY NATION! 

Having a toilet is a basic need now! Considering long travelling! But NEEDING EXTRAS is not a need in my country and thus falls under elite!


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## war&peace

Simurgh said:


> Mine is a paindu pretty lower middle class family and even we also have constructed a separate commode toilet in our home in addition to the traditional ones. I don't really understand what is "elite" in using toilet papers and commode. If using these things is elitist then event the use of pakistani style sitting toilet is also elitist because just 50 years ago people used to go in open fields to do their stuff, so to avoid "elitism" we should probably go back to field toilet system.


100% agreed bro and very logical answer. Elite culture which we hate is abusing public resources like VIP protocols at the expense of the poor people. Using toilet paper is not elite but a choice and if someone is ready to pay extra for a service then why not? 
After all, we are developing the tourism industry in the country and we want to facilitate the tourists and we can have both types of toilets at the same location...the Pakistani style seat or with western style commode. But some has turned it into an issue of being elite and ego.

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## Crusher

Dubious said:


> S
> *No they become elite when they can demand their own "public" toilet which btw, means is run on public money to clean and maintain! *



In most areas there are no "free" public toilets in Pakistan, all toilets are given on "theka" to some people and those people charge every user of those so-called "public toilets", people are already charged if you don't know about it. If they have facility to get "toilet papers" on those public toilets, many people will happily pay for it without any problem because they already pay some money to use that public toilet anyway in the name of "service" charges.

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## war&peace

Dubious said:


> Some are free and the govt pays for their cleanliness, maintenance and treatment of the sewage! All which cost money!


Your definitions are wrong. Public toilet does not have to be free. and it has not be constructed and operated by the govt and FYI all public toilets are operated by private contractors. Also private people can and do construct public toilets like most of the gas stations in Pakistan have some public toilets constructed & operated by private people

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## Crusher

war&peace said:


> Your definitions are wrong.* Public toilet does not have to be free.* and it has not be constructed and operated by the govt and FYI all public toilets are operated by contractors. Also private people can and do construct public toilets like most of the gas stations in Pakistan have some public toilets constructed & operated by private people



I think dubious doesn't understand the difference between public vs private toilet. Public toilet just means that it is available to anyone, it could be free or you have to pay for it depending on the location and the policy of the owner of that public toilet. Public toilet are not necessarily developed and maintained only by government. Private toilet on the other hand is something like your home toilet which only you use or in an office a toilet which is only reserved to be used by employees in contrast to a public toilet in the same office for general public visitors.

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## war&peace

Simurgh said:


> In most areas there are no "free" public toilets in Pakistan, all toilets are given on "theka" to some people and those people charge every user of those so-called "public toilets", people are already charged if you don't know about it. If they have facility to get "toilet papers" on those public toilets, many people will happily pay for it without any problem because they already pay some money to use that public toilet anyway in the name of "service" charges.


Mate, it is like going by business class. One of my friends in Pakistan told me that when Daewoo started, it was deemed too expensive and people thought no one will use it because they were charging twice or even more than normal buses travel service but according to him, today everyone wants to use Daewoo and it is always full and you have to book it in advance.
Rather it had a positive effect on others as well since they also started to improve to their services.



Simurgh said:


> I think dubious doesn't understand the difference between public vs private toilet. Public toilet just means that it is available to anyone, it could be free or you have to pay for it depending on the location and the policy of the owner of that public toilet. Public toilet are not necessarily developed and maintained only by government. Private toilet on the other hand is something like your home toilet which only you use or in an office a toilet which is only reserved to be used by employees in contrast to a public toilet in the same office for general public visitors.


I have the same feeling and I have tried to explain it in my posts. Anything that is useable by people is public whether it is free or paid and whether it is operated by govt or private individual. As you rightly pointed out, private toilets are inside your home, offices or even ones attached to the rooms / suite in hotels or apartments.

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## war&peace

VCheng said:


> A good explanation of why most people are quite accepting of open sewage systems in Pakistan, a fact that many tourists would find notable - if they know about it before visiting.


This mentality is really regressive and backwards. And this is holding us back from progressing. We spend billions on national scale on health issues only because of the lack of hygiene and sanitation in our lives. People get sick because they breath in polluted air, drink unclean water, eat unhygienically prepared food, getting bitten by mosquitos from the nearby open sewer or pond... but if we want to improve it, some people call it an elite culture which is so illogical.

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## Crusher

war&peace said:


> This mentality is really regressive and backwards. And this is holding us back from progressing. We spend billions on national scale on health issues only because of the lack of hygiene and sanitation in our lives. People get sick because they breath in polluted air, drink unclean water, eat unhygienically prepared food, getting bitten by mosquitos from the nearby open sewer or pond... *but if we want to improve it, some people call it an elite culture which is so illogical.*



I agree with you, this mindset of calling any progressive measure/suggestion as elitism is not going to help us improve our society and infrastructure.

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## war&peace

Simurgh said:


> I agree with you, this mindset of calling any progressive measure/suggestion as elitism is not going to help us improve our society and infrastructure.


I think it is an over reaction to what the VIP culture has done to the nation but still people should be able to draw the line and not swing too much from one extreme to an other. Islam is not against people being rich but it wants circulation of the wealth and discourages the accumulation in the hands of few but if you work hard, do trade and earn a lot of profit from your business while paying all the dues, then there's no harm though it is better to share your wealth with deserving people through charity and gifts.

Similarly, covered sewers are not an elitist thing rather it follows the Islamic principles of sanitation and cleanliness. Are we not using electricity and mobile phones. Even mobile phone used to be an elitist item in the past but now it is just a necessity and everyone has one.

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## Wa Muhammada

VCheng said:


> The best part is that all the beautiful photos of Pakistan hide this part of the "natural landscape" in Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> That is all Purana Pakistan.
> 
> We now have the Naya Pakistan.
> 
> ==========================================
> 
> (And I will never think of mentioning on PDF what many men will be doing with one of their hands in public in a certain part of their anatomy. Constantly.)



Yep that’s true ...weird


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## I.R.A

Dubious said:


> Knowing my people they will start defecating in public than pay for a toilet!



This is not true. Pakistani people won't start defecating in public (it's a small percentage that pee in open) ......... you know too little. Motorways in Pakistan have free well maintained toilets available in all the rest and eating places, as you move north in KPK you will find separate toilet places for men and women at any filling station (obviously nobody during travel needs to visit toilet after every 30 minutes, so some of them at filling stations are clean enough to use when its emergency) ..... move little more up and you will find paid toilets (during tourist season the charges range something from PKR 30 to PKR 40). If you are staying in a reasonable hotel in those areas you will find clean toilets and warm water.

And if you are visiting Cholistan ......... then you should have it in mind, it's a desert come prepared. Toilets are not a problem Plastic pollution is the biggest problem. Similarly it is stupid of people to expect a toilet at Deo Sai.

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## Arsalan

VCheng said:


> Tag @Dubious too in your reply, he (  ) is interested in this area too.
> 
> 
> 
> The problem with marketing beaches is whether the local population can accept what tourists would like to do on said beaches.


Will do.


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## Dubious

I.R.A said:


> Motorways in Pakistan have free well maintained toilets available in all the rest and eating places, as you move north in KPK you will find separate toilet places for men and women at any filling station (obviously nobody during travel needs to visit toilet after every 30 minutes, so some of them at filling stations are clean enough to use when its emergency) ..... move little more up and you will find paid toilets (during tourist season the charges range something from PKR 30 to PKR 40). If you are staying in a reasonable hotel in those areas you will find clean toilets and warm water.


I already covered motorway toilets!

Our member here is asking for tissue paper in the toilet. Suggesting a paid and maintained toilet! 

I have never paid 30-40 PKR for a toilet...So I wouldnt know about these services you claim!

Lastly, we are not talking about hotels..but public toilets!


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## B.K.N

Dubious said:


> I already covered motorway toilets



Wasey motorway pa toilet ki Kya zarorat hai



VCheng said:


> whether the local population can accept what tourists would like to do on said beaches.



Local population would love it


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## Dubious

Brass Knuckles said:


> Wasey motorway pa toilet ki Kya zarorat hai


Now a days some buses have a small toilet too...which not every personal car owner have...so sometimes you need to stop if you are driving say from ISB to Bhawalpur?



Simurgh said:


> In most areas there are no "free" public toilets in Pakistan, all toilets are given on "theka" to some people and those people charge every user of those so-called "public toilets", people are already charged if you don't know about it. If they have facility to get "toilet papers" on those public toilets, many people will happily pay for it without any problem because they already pay some money to use that public toilet anyway in the name of "service" charges.


What is with you people and toilet paper? Carry your own 

2ndly, I have seen more free public toilets than the paid ones!

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## Kabira

Simurgh said:


> Yes that is the case at least with northern europeans like germans. Their worldview is very different than pakistanis', these foreign tourists know pretty well that they are travelling to 3rd world countries, they don't really want or expect to see a new "germany or german standards" while visiting 3rd world countries in Asia, Africa or Latin America, even the Italy and Spain are also very "exotic" and "chaotic" places for germans yet they travel there frequently for their holidays just to experience sunny beaches and genuine Mediterranean cusine. But there is a deep sense of insecurity and inferiority complex among "kalay angraiz" running the affairs of Pakistani state since the last 7 decades, they think that "foreign tourists" don't visit pakistan because pakistan lacks "first world facilities", that is ridiculous argument. The only thing that matter for european or american tourists is that there is at least a minimum standard of organized travel, food and accommodation. And off course there is no compromise on security whether they are roaming in their own country or a foreign country. These tourists will always choose a "more secure" 3rd world country over a "less secure" 3rd world country if there is a competition between the two.
> 
> One thing that I have noticed is that Pakistani government advertises "mountains" of northern pakistan as some kind of unique "tourist attractions" for foreign tourists. Northern European landscape is far more better looking than any mountains anywhere in pakistan including hunza or gilgit etc. Majority of European tourists have no interest to see "mountains" when they visit a foreign country, they are more interested to experience some unique culture and traditions of their destination countries. Warm beaches are far more popular among european/american tourists than sh1tty mountains. "Basant" kite flying festival that we used to have in Lahore and other cities of Pakistan is far better cultural experience for marketing the tourism in Pakistan than the sh1tty mountains that pakistan tourist department is marketing since decades without any success. Even big village cultural and local sports "Melas" in Punjab will attract a lot of foreign tourists if marketed than mountains. For god sake most foreign tourists have no interest in seeing mountains in other countries, they have abundance of them in their own countries.



Spot on, these Pakistanis think just because northen areas are popular locally because of summer heat in south it must be the case for foreigners as well. Resorts along coast line are best bet apart from old cities if Pakistan become secure enough.

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## war&peace

VCheng said:


> The best part is that all the beautiful photos of Pakistan hide this part of the "natural landscape" in Pakistan.


Because they know it is disgusting and world won't appreciate it but still there are members who will fight tooth and nails to defend it. BTW Mohenjo Daro had covered sewer 3500 years ago. So this mediocrity crept in later. Definitely a mile backwards...


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## Path-Finder

war&peace said:


> My observations are the same. We need to improve ourselves in these areas if we really want a sustainable tourism industry
> I have watched her videos about Pakistan. She is a positive & genuine person. But these are real issues so please keep that in mind or just watch her videos about Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​


That is yourself in the video?


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## war&peace

Path-Finder said:


> That is yourself in the video?


I'm a man bro... I think she is a girl.


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## Path-Finder

war&peace said:


> I'm a man bro... I think she is a girl.


ah my bad.


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## war&peace

Path-Finder said:


> ah my bad.


But I know her because I watched her videos about Pakistan. I agree 100% with her.


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## I.R.A

Dubious said:


> Our member here is asking for tissue paper in the toilet. Suggesting a paid and maintained toilet!



I don't know about others but I always carry tissue roll in my car, and when I am travelling with my family we carry wet wipes plus spare something in case anyone feels nausea and vomits.



Dubious said:


> I have never paid 30-40 PKR for a toilet...So I wouldnt know about these services you claim!



Well you would never know, cause its always the father who has to look for toilets and proper places if papu guddi feel like visiting one ....... and I have paid for these services, like there is one in Kiwai. 



Dubious said:


> Lastly, we are not talking about hotels..but public toilets!



Well may be you again wouldn't know how these filling stations, hotels and papu guddi's call of nature are interlinked.

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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> papu guddi



Sir yeh papu guddi Kia hai

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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Sir yeh papu guddi Kia hai



Baita yeh wo makhlooq hy jin k hotay huay ap ka jeena haram aur na hotay huay azab hua hota hy.

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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Baita yeh wo makhlooq hy jin k hotay huay ap ka jeena haram aur na hotay huay azab hua hota hy.



Waisay is makhloq baray pehli dafa suna ha

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## Dubious

I.R.A said:


> I don't know about others but I always carry tissue roll in my car, and when I am travelling with my family we carry wet wipes plus spare something in case anyone feels nausea and vomits.


I think everyone does that....hence my surprise why some member wants tissue in a public toilet 



I.R.A said:


> Well you would never know, cause its always the father who has to look for toilets and proper places if papu guddi feel like visiting one ....... and I have paid for these services, like there is one in Kiwai.


30-40 is bit of a stretch!

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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Waisay is makhloq baray pehli dafa suna ha



Aunty uncle agar hayat hain, ALLAH unhay sehat dy aur umer daraz kary ........ un say ja kay poch lo k wo tumhary bachpan k baray may sachi sachi kya sochtay hain.




Dubious said:


> 30-40 is bit of a stretch!



During tourist season this is what they charge. You won't find many of them, just few.

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## war&peace

Brass Knuckles said:


> Sir yeh papu guddi Kia hai


guddi means car in Punjabi.


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## B.K.N

war&peace said:


> guddi means car in Punjabi.



Doll is called guddi in Punjabi and gurya in Urdu
Aap ko na Urdu aati hai na punjabi





This is called guddi

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## war&peace

Brass Knuckles said:


> Doll is called guddi in Punjabi and gurya in Urdu
> Aap ko na Urdu aati hai na punjabi


Guddi means car...ask anyone
it is in fact who does not know Urdu or Punjabi


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## B.K.N

They are different words are pronounced differently the word you are thinking it is means vehicle not car
Gadi is vehicle and gudi is doll @war&peace



I.R.A said:


> Baita yeh wo makhlooq hy jin k hotay huay ap ka jeena haram aur na hotay huay azab hua hota hy.



Yahan sir @war&peace Punjabi sikha rhay Hain sekhni hai to aa jao

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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Yahan sir @war&peace Punjabi sikha rhay Hain sekhni hai to aa jao



Thank you not interested.


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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Thank you not interested.



Waisay car ko guddi kehtay Hain na


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## war&peace

Brass Knuckles said:


> They are different words are pronounced differently they you are means vehicle not car
> Gadi is vehicle and gudi is doll @war&peace


Guddi is car listen

__
https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffoad-bashir%2Fsets%2Fguddi-tu-magaa-de


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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Waisay car ko guddi kehtay Hain na



Patang ko kehtay hain guddi.


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## Path-Finder

war&peace said:


> Guddi is car listen
> 
> __
> https://soundcloud.com/https%3A%2F%2Fsoundcloud.com%2Ffoad-bashir%2Fsets%2Fguddi-tu-magaa-de


Car is gaddi, even says it in what you posted.

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## B.K.N

war&peace said:


> Guddi is car listen



These are two different words you translated guddi for me to prove I am false flagger right na mano mujhay kya



I.R.A said:


> Patang ko kehtay hain guddi.



Wo to main bhol gya lekin aap ki murad doll thi


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## war&peace

Path-Finder said:


> Car is gaddi, even says it in what you posted.


guddi see . 



Brass Knuckles said:


> These are two different words you translated guddi for me to prove I am false flagger right na mano mujhay kya


no but you're away from your culture sadly..


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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Wo to main bhol gya lekin aap ki murad doll thi



Nai mayri murad mayray leader ki beti Mariam Nawaz thi.

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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Nai mayri murad mayray leader ki beti Mariam Nawaz thi.



Asal baat to ab smjh main ayi app pmln ki support kyon krtay hain



war&peace said:


> no but you're away from your culture sadly..



What culture Pakistan has only one culure 
and that is culture of loot mar


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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Asal baat to ab smjh main ayi app pmln ki support kyon krtay hain



Paida aisay huay thay ya badh may bongia marna seekhi thi?

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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Paida aisay huay thay ya badh may bongia marna seekhi thi?



Kuch paraishi asar hai aur kuch mahol ka


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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Kuch paraishi asar hai aur kuch mahol ka



Acha may smja desi kupio ka qasoor hy yeh sab.


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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Acha may smja desi kupio ka qasoor hy yeh sab.



Mujhay nhi pta Desi Kya hoti hai 
aap mazak main serious hi Gaye bye


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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Mujhay nhi pta Desi Kya hoti hai
> aap mazak main serious hi Gaye bye



Kal tum nay khud he kaha tha bai desi peeta ho aur ajj keh rahay ho mujay nai pata .....

yeh akhri wala jumla bohat zinana kisam ka hy waisay ....


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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Kal tum nay khud he kaha tha bai desi peeta ho aur ajj keh rahay ho mujay nai pata .....



Koi khas shauq nhi par kuch dafa try Kiya tha



I.R.A said:


> yeh akhri wala jumla bohat zinana kisam ka hy waisay ....



Jumla jumla hota hai zanana ho ya mardana

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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Koi khas shauq nhi par kuch dafa try Kiya tha



To yani bongyia marnay ki pukhta adat bachpan say he sath jawan hui hy.




Brass Knuckles said:


> Jumla jumla hota hai zanana ho ya mardana



Na. Andaz e guftagoo ki apni jince hoti hy. Aur yeh mundarja bala jumla b kafi zinana kisam k andaz ka hy.

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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> To yani bongyia marnay ki pukhta adat bachpan say he sath jawan hui hy.


Yeah aadat aap sa lgi hai wo Jo aap jamaima aur reham wali batain kar rhay thay . Wesay mujhay bongi ka mtlab nhi pta ye lafz sirf reporter irshad bhatti sa suna
Ham isay shayed chaglan marna kehta Hain



I.R.A said:


> Na. Andaz e guftagoo ki apni jince hoti hy. Aur yeh mundarja bala jumla b kafi zinana kisam k andaz ka hy.



Jumlon ki koi gender nhi hoti

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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Yeah aadat aap sa lgi hai wo Jo aap jamaima aur reham wali batain kar rhay thay . Wesay mujhay bongi ka mtlab nhi pta ye lafz sirf reporter irshad bhatti sa suna
> Ham isay shayed chaglan marna kehta Hain



I am flattered ....... aik din may ap itnay mutasir ho gay muj say. I think its time for qaum say khitab.

Chawlia marna is another term used for it.



Brass Knuckles said:


> Jumlon ki koi gender nhi hoti



Hoti hy, shero o shairi karnay walay pagal to thay nai.

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## B.K.N

I.R.A said:


> Hoti hy, shero o shairi karnay walay pagal to thay nai.



Phir PTV studio chalay jayen aur khitab karlen
Shair o shairi main na kbhi nhi prhi wesay


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## I.R.A

Brass Knuckles said:


> Phir PTV studio chalay jayen aur khitab karlen
> Shair o shairi main na kbhi nhi prhi wesay



Nai phelay hajam k pass jana ho ga.

Wah shair o shairi nai pari ....... acha kia, waqai pagal hotay hain salay, garam kambal may baith k doosray ko sehra may dorah rahay hotay hain.

Now I would suggest that we stop further derailing this thread.


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## krash

Simurgh said:


> One thing that I have noticed is that Pakistani government advertises "mountains" of northern pakistan as some kind of unique "tourist attractions" for foreign tourists. Northern European landscape is far more better looking than any mountains anywhere in pakistan including hunza or gilgit etc.



Err......no. No it is not. Not by a long shot. That was a ridiculously childish statement. A statement only one who has never visited northern Pakistan could make. Because you see, Europeaners from Northern Europe beg to differ. The sight of a +7000 meter ice-wall is something which does not leave you for the rest of your life, a sight which Europe could only dream to provide. You speak like a man who visits Murree and then claims to be an authority on Pakistani mountains. I'm not trying to be rude, but I really couldn't describe it any better.



Simurgh said:


> Majority of European tourists have no interest to see "mountains" when they visit a foreign country, they are more interested to experience some unique culture and traditions of their destination countries. Warm beaches are far more popular among european/american tourists than sh1tty mountains.



That is another uneducated statement. 

Firstly, "tourists" as a whole are not a uniform entity. Every tourist is a different person with different interests and wants, i.e. Tourism is a multifaceted industry just like any other. Some regions attract tourist through culture, some through gambling, others through beaches, some even through sex. 

Secondly, there are countries whose economies are based around mountain tourism. Nepal is a pretty major example of that, apart from the countries in Western South America. Canada too actually owes a great chunk of its tourism to the Canadian Rockies which sees tourists mostly from Europe and Australia. And, tbh, the Canadian Rockies are Kaghan Lite. The majority of tourists visiting all these countries are from the States or Europe.

Mountain tourism actually makes up a pretty big chunk of the global tourism industry. And when you have mountains unlike anywhere else in the world, it would be stupid not to advertise them. Mountains which still brought tourists during terrorism's peak and without Pakistan marketing them.



Simurgh said:


> "Basant" kite flying festival that we used to have in Lahore and other cities of Pakistan is far better cultural experience for marketing the tourism in Pakistan



Basant was a pretty brilliant tourist lure. Too bad the Pakistani legal thekedars combined possess wisdom equal to a termite.



Simurgh said:


> than the sh1tty mountains that pakistan tourist department is marketing since decades without any success.



Again, ridiculous. Throughout Pakistan's history the only actual tourism success Pakistan has experienced was through our mountains. And we experienced that success without ever marketing them. Till the start of the Soviet Afghan war Northern Pakistan used to attract more tourists than the rest of the country combined. And it wasn't as if we were not marketing our cultural and historical gems either. It was only due to wars and then terrorism that the tourism there took a hit, like the rest of the country. Despite all of that, despite the exponential decrease in numbers, even during those testing times, Northern Pakistan was virtually the only region which was still receiving tourists. And today, guess which region is spearheading the recent revival of tourism in Pakistan?

"sh1tty mountains".....pretty sure you've never seen an actual mountain.



Simurgh said:


> Even big village cultural and local sports "Melas" in Punjab will attract a lot of foreign tourists if marketed than mountains.



No they wouldn't. Please provide any analogous example from anywhere in the world. Apart from the fact that according to the accounts of the tourists who have recently visited Pakistan the landscapes and the hospitality have been the two major factors that have made Pakistan stand out for them. 



Simurgh said:


> For god sake most foreign tourists have no interest in seeing mountains in other countries, they have abundance of them in their own countries.



Lol, no.

There is an abundance of beaches in Europe and North America, why do they all then clamor to the Caribbean, Mexico, the French Riviera, Italy, Spain, Greece, etc.? Heck they even go all the way to Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia and the Maldives.


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## Jasamine

a long way to go but creating awareness is the first step.


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## war&peace

Starlord said:


> My wife complain about Karachi ..
> 
> 1- its Extremely Dirty
> 2- Worse Traffic she ever saw and almost 50% of the people not following the traffic rules
> 3-* Why did they put Allah and Rasool SAW name on walls, where Dogs/Cats are pooping and peeing, and people throw trash *.. ( that really embarrass me ) .


I discussed it with some scholars... Writing Allah and Rasool's name on the walls is a sinful act since the wall has the same status in this regard as the floor / ground. Allah and his prophet's names, Quranic verses etc should not be written directly on the walls. Rather if it is desired to display then put these inside the wall hanging frames.


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