# Woh hamsafar tha..



## Slav Defence

Recently, a beautiful song reaches mega hits in both India and Pakistan.People started to make overwhelming comments over the romantic song: "Woh Hamsafar Tha".However, very little people knew about the fact that the song beautiful sung by Quratulain recently (and Abida perveen in past) was originally written by Naseer Turabi.Originally, the ghazal defines the event of partition and the pain through which both East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (Now only Pakistan) was going through.
Please hear and enjoy the song.Please do not spew nonsense here. Any flaimbait, abuse or other hateful nonsense and the poster will be getting banned.This notification is for both the Pakistani and Bangladeshi posters.

*Lyrics with English Translation:*
Tarq-e-taaluqaat pe...
_At our parting of ways,_
Roya na tu, na main
_Neither you cried nor I,_
Lekin yeh kya ke chain se soya na tu, na main
_But then, what's this that neither you nor I slept peacefully_

Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion (fellow traveler)….._
Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_
Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
_He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
_He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_

Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
_With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
_With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
Judai na thi…
_There was no separation_

Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_
Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_

Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
_There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
_There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
_The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
Bewafai na thi…
_He didn't have unfaithfullness_
Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
_The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
Bewafai na thi…
_He didn't have unfaithfullness_

Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
_With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
_With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_

Judai na thi…
_There was no separation_

Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_
Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_

Kaajal daaro
_Put kohl_
kurkura surma Saha na jaaye
_The graininess of the kohl is tough to bear_
Jin Nain mein pee bassay
_In the eyes that hold my beloved_
Dooja kon samaaye
_Who else can be beheld_

Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
_At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
_At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
_And it was that poetry that was never recited_
Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
_And it was that poetry that was never recited_

Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
_With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
_With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
Judai na thi…
_There was no separation_

Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_
Woh humsafar tha....
_He was my companion …_​
Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh in future endeavors.

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## Slav Defence

@Atlas @asad71 @Mage and others...

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## SecularNationalist

Slav Defence said:


> Recently, a beautiful song reaches mega hits in both India and Pakistan.People started to make overwhelming comments over the romantic song


Recently???
Where are you living for the past few years??

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## Slav Defence

SecularNationalist said:


> Recently???
> Where are you living for the past few years??


Those past "few" years are considered "recently" by me.Or else it was sung by Abida Perveen in past and written in 1971 by Naseer Turabi 
Regards

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## VikingRaider

Slav Defence said:


> Recently, a beautiful song reaches mega hits in both India and Pakistan.People started to make overwhelming comments over the romantic song: "Woh Hamsafar Tha".However, very little people knew about the fact that the song beautiful sung by Quratulain recently (and Abida perveen in past) was originally written by Naseer Turabi.Originally, _the ghazal defines the event of partition and the pain through which both East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (Now only Pakistan) was going through._
> Please hear and enjoy the song.Please do not spew nonsense here. Any flaimbait, abuse or other hateful nonsense and the poster will be getting banned.This notification is for both the Pakistani and Bangladeshi posters.
> 
> *Lyrics with English Translation:*
> Tarq-e-taaluqaat pe...
> _At our parting of ways,_
> Roya na tu, na main
> _Neither you cried nor I,_
> Lekin yeh kya ke chain se soya na tu, na main
> _But then, what's this that neither you nor I slept peacefully_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion (fellow traveler)….._
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> 
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Kaajal daaro
> _Put kohl_
> kurkura surma Saha na jaaye
> _The graininess of the kohl is tough to bear_
> Jin Nain mein pee bassay
> _In the eyes that hold my beloved_
> Dooja kon samaaye
> _Who else can be beheld_
> 
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_​
> Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh in future endeavors.


@Slav Defence , thanks a lot brother for English translation of the lyrics . Now I can fully understand the song ! So touchy song . What happened has happened , but if still we ( both Bangladeshi and Pakistani brothers ) can move on and forget everything , then Pakistan and Bangladesh can be the best friendly nation forever . May Bangladesh and Pakistan live forever . Bangladesh Zindabad and Pakistan Zindabad !

Wishing Best of luck and prosperous future for Pakistan and Pakistani brothers and sisters!

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## Slav Defence

Retired Troll said:


> Stockholm Syndrome is legit



*I warned you not to pollute the thread.*



Atlas said:


> @Slav Defence , thanks a lot brother for English translation of the lyrics . Now I can fully understand the song ! So touchy song . What happened has happened , but if still we ( both Bangladeshi and Pakistani brothers ) can move on and forget everything , then Pakistan and Bangladesh can be the best friendly nation forever . May Bangladesh and Pakistan live forever . Bangladesh Zindabad and Pakistan Zindabad !
> 
> Wishing Best of luck and prosperous future for Pakistan and Pakistani brothers and sisters!


This is what I want and I pray for, brother.Young kids don't understand and feed what govt tries to put in their mind.I want Bangladesh and Pakistan to move forward as brotherly nations.I pray to Allah(SWT) for this day to come.
I also want to see prosperous Bangladesh. Bangladesh Zindabad, Pakistan Zindabad!!

Regards

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## M. Sarmad

Slav Defence said:


> Recently, a beautiful song reaches mega hits in both India and Pakistan.People started to make overwhelming comments over the romantic song: "Woh Hamsafar Tha".However, very little people knew about the fact that the song beautiful sung by Quratulain recently (and Abida perveen in past) was originally written by Naseer Turabi.Originally, the ghazal defines the event of partition and the pain through which both East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (Now only Pakistan) was going through.
> Please hear and enjoy the song.Please do not spew nonsense here. Any flaimbait, abuse or other hateful nonsense and the poster will be getting banned.This notification is for both the Pakistani and Bangladeshi posters.
> 
> *Lyrics with English Translation:*
> Tarq-e-taaluqaat pe...
> _At our parting of ways,_
> Roya na tu, na main
> _Neither you cried nor I,_
> Lekin yeh kya ke chain se soya na tu, na main
> _But then, what's this that neither you nor I slept peacefully_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion (fellow traveler)….._
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> 
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Kaajal daaro
> _Put kohl_
> kurkura surma Saha na jaaye
> _The graininess of the kohl is tough to bear_
> Jin Nain mein pee bassay
> _In the eyes that hold my beloved_
> Dooja kon samaaye
> _Who else can be beheld_
> 
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_​
> Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh in future endeavors.

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## Slav Defence

M. Sarmad said:


>






Abida Perveen's version- Original.

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## Destranator

I want to make something very clear to Pakistani brothers and sisters: us Bangladeshis have utmost love and respect for Pakistani people. 

Why do you think we participate in this forum?

Now all the trolling and insults from our side occurs in reaction to repeated attempts to label us in a certain way by some Pakistani members.

Despite all the disagreements, we wish the best for all Pakistanis.

Both Pakistanis and Bangladeshis need to understand that the versions of history BOTH countries uphold are incomplete and biased and that our geopolitical realities and priorities are different.

In Bengali we say "Ak haatey tali baje na" which roughly translates to "It takes two to tango". Both nations have screwed up in different ways since the British colonial era. Let us acknowledge that none of us are saints and quit claiming moral high grounds.

We need to be able to isolate and draw a line between state policy disagreements and interactions at the individual level.

Long live our friendship.

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## HRK

Slav Defence said:


> Recently, a beautiful song reaches mega hits in both India and Pakistan.People started to make overwhelming comments over the romantic song: "Woh Hamsafar Tha".However, very little people knew about the fact that the song beautiful sung by Quratulain recently (and Abida perveen in past) was originally written by Naseer Turabi.Originally, the ghazal defines the event of partition and the pain through which both East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (Now only Pakistan) was going through.
> Please hear and enjoy the song.Please do not spew nonsense here. Any flaimbait, abuse or other hateful nonsense and the poster will be getting banned.This notification is for both the Pakistani and Bangladeshi posters.
> 
> *Lyrics with English Translation:*
> Tarq-e-taaluqaat pe...
> _At our parting of ways,_
> Roya na tu, na main
> _Neither you cried nor I,_
> Lekin yeh kya ke chain se soya na tu, na main
> _But then, what's this that neither you nor I slept peacefully_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion (fellow traveler)….._
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> 
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Kaajal daaro
> _Put kohl_
> kurkura surma Saha na jaaye
> _The graininess of the kohl is tough to bear_
> Jin Nain mein pee bassay
> _In the eyes that hold my beloved_
> Dooja kon samaaye
> _Who else can be beheld_
> 
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With  the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_​
> Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh in future endeavors.


In Naseer Turabi's own voice and the background of this master piece of Urdu poetry

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## Species

Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
Bewafai na thi…

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## HRK

Original Version without deletion and addition





https://www.rekhta.org/ghazals/vo-h...navaaii-na-thii-naseer-turabi-ghazals?lang=ur

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## Slav Defence

HRK said:


> In Naseer Turabi's own voice and the background of this master piece of Urdu poetry


Especially when he said during his interview:"When I heard of it, I got shocked, sat down and started to cry.I, then recited these poem!".Look at the irony today, the song was aired in Pakistan and then India, cherished by India but never conveyed to our true beloved.It was meant for Bangladesh, it was written for Bangladesh but never conveyed.His tears and poem was never aired in Bangladesh.Indians again came between us. 

regards

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## HRK

Slav Defence said:


> Especially when he said during his interview:"When I heard of it, I got shocked, sat down and started to cry.I, then recited these poem!".Look at the irony today, the song was aired in Pakistan and then India, cherished by India but never conveyed to our true beloved.It was meant for Bangladesh, it was written for Bangladesh but never conveyed.His tears and poem was never aired in Bangladesh.Indians again came between us.
> 
> regards


This situation is the true reflection of what Naseer Turabi Shaib said in very first line of first stanza of his ghzal


> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi



and as far as Indians are concerns to an extent we both don't face language barrier, same is the case of India with Bangladesh .... but We (Pakistan and Bangladesh) do have a language problem we do not understand each other

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## Slav Defence

HRK said:


> This situation is the true reflection of what Naseer Turabi Shaib said in very first line of first stanza of his ghzal
> 
> 
> and as far as Indians are concerns to an extent we both don't face language barrier, same is the case of India with Bangladesh .... but We (Pakistan and Bangladesh) do have a language problem we do not understand each other


Still, I believe that if we would have mend our ways then this would never happened.However, we don't realize that this 1971 tragedy has given us strength to stand.When you loose some part of you then you stand up.We become nuclear state, ranked seventh.However, we still love Bangladesh and our ancestors still wipe off their tears every year.The same reason that irritates our gen. when they read in their textbooks.We proudly read 1965 but turn our pages when it comes to 1971 because of immense pain.
Regards

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## maverick1977

Slav Defence said:


> Recently, a beautiful song reaches mega hits in both India and Pakistan.People started to make overwhelming comments over the romantic song: "Woh Hamsafar Tha".However, very little people knew about the fact that the song beautiful sung by Quratulain recently (and Abida perveen in past) was originally written by Naseer Turabi.Originally, the ghazal defines the event of partition and the pain through which both East Pakistan (Now Bangladesh) and West Pakistan (Now only Pakistan) was going through.
> Please hear and enjoy the song.Please do not spew nonsense here. Any flaimbait, abuse or other hateful nonsense and the poster will be getting banned.This notification is for both the Pakistani and Bangladeshi posters.
> 
> *Lyrics with English Translation:*
> Tarq-e-taaluqaat pe...
> _At our parting of ways,_
> Roya na tu, na main
> _Neither you cried nor I,_
> Lekin yeh kya ke chain se soya na tu, na main
> _But then, what's this that neither you nor I slept peacefully_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion (fellow traveler)….._
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> Woh humsafar thaa magar us sey humnawai na thi…
> _He was my companion but with him I didn’t have like mindedness (harmony)_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Adaavatein theen..Taghaaful thaa, Ranjishein theen Magar..
> _There was animosity, Indifference and anguish but,_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> Bicharne walay main sab kuch thaa
> _The one who I was parted with had everything (but)_
> Bewafai na thi…
> _He didn't have unfaithfullness_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> 
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> 
> Kaajal daaro
> _Put kohl_
> kurkura surma Saha na jaaye
> _The graininess of the kohl is tough to bear_
> Jin Nain mein pee bassay
> _In the eyes that hold my beloved_
> Dooja kon samaaye
> _Who else can be beheld_
> 
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Bicharte waqt un ankhon mein thi hamari ghazal
> _At the time of parting those eyes had my poetry_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> Ghazal bhi wo jo kisi ko kabhi sunai na thi
> _And it was that poetry that was never recited_
> 
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka…..
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade_
> Kay dhoop chaaon ka aalam raha
> _With the (hot) sunshine and shade was world was filled_
> Judai na thi…
> _There was no separation_
> 
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_
> Woh humsafar tha....
> _He was my companion …_​
> Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh in future endeavors.




Every year on Dec 16, me and my friends get together to understand what mistakes happened on Dec 16, shedding tears on what was lost, discussing war stories of bravery, discussing how terrorism was spread in name of Pakistan army, raping of women by mostly Indians, the mistakes of Pakistan army by killing of Bengali dissident and then the stab of terrorism sponsoring Indians, political mistakes of rulers, and failed military strategy from West, why China didn’t intervene, the reasons of why we got to this sad point because of discrimination of bengalis and the break up of Pakistan. We read troop movements, company formations and war strategy ... we finish our night with wo humsafar tha... it happened last night too ...such a loss... I was not born at that time, but I carry the pain Pakistan went through
At the end we all vow that our generations should know what they should not do and remember how cunning and opportunist your enemy is... my kids understand ...
Long live my beloved Pakistan, my life and my soul...

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## HRK

Slav Defence said:


> *our ancestors still wipe off their tears every year.*


I personally experience such emotional events many times .... my maternal grand parents stayed there for some time when my grand father was posted there.

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## Slav Defence

maverick1977 said:


> Every year on Dec 16, me and my friends get together to understand what mistakes happened on Dec 16, shedding tears on what was lost, discussing war stories of bravery, discussing how mukhti terrorism was spread in name of Pakistan army, raping of women by mostly Indians and Mukhti, the mistakes of Pakistan army by killing of Bengali dissident and then the stab of terrorism sponsoring Indians, political mistakes of rulers, and failed military strategy from West, why China didn’t intervene, the reasons of why we got to this sad point because of discrimination of bengalis and the break up of Pakistan. We read troop movements, company formations and war strategy ..... we finish our night with wo humsafar tha... it happened last night too ...such a loss... I was not born at that time, but I carry the pain Pakistan went through
> At the end we all wow that our generations should know what they should not do and remember how cunning and opportunist your enemy is... my kids understand ...
> Long live my beloved Pakistan, my life and my soul...


This is what Pakistan should understand and convey.The story does not end here.They are now after the tribal areas and have occupied Kashmir.If we as a nation did not wake up, then I am afraid that they will stab us again though we are well equipped with nuclear technology.
If our times have changed so their method to spread chaos.We should learn and equip ourselves for future.
It is the blessed hand of Allah(SWT) that a nation who has to start from the scratch came up with such high level of defence system(Mashallah).We have seen more than 3 wars in our life: three wars with India, participated in Kashmir war through mujhaideen and gained 1/3 of Kahmir, participiated in war against Russia and helped US to break Russia and now Americans.Our history is far more detailed and glorious.
Regards

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## Slav Defence

Mage said:


> Do you really need this in this thread? @Slav Defence
> 
> Mukti bahini are our heroes. Badmouthing them will only derail the thread.


I accept that our versions differ but not conveying message of well wisher is also not fair  Let us move forward, brother.I will make sure that no one bad mouth your heros 
Regards

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## Mage

Slav Defence said:


> I did not bring any of such.The post was not even written by me.Please quote the person who wrote it.
> 
> Regards


You have the power to edit that post and also delete mine. In the OP you did write not to post nonsense.

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## Slav Defence

Mage said:


> You have the power to edit that post and also delete mine. In the OP you did write not to post nonsense.


I have edited it, done!

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## VikingRaider

Mage said:


> Now you are having him blame the atrocities on the Indians.
> I understand all sides did some atrocities. But if measured you know which side will have blame for vast majority of them?
> You do not need to talk about atrocities here.


@Mage , if you do not mind may I request something ? Can we please compromise sometimes ? Something looks negative is not always negative . So please let's not push it at least in this thread .
Lets try to make this thread wonderful by ignoring some disagreement !

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## Slav Defence

*Please stick to the topic.*Thread reopened, any discussion over differences will not be appreciated.Please share Bengladeshi poetry with English Translation and we will also discuss Pakistani poetry.
On the other hand, let us keep this thread positive.If anyone has to share any differences then please open up new thread.

Here is famous poetry Shikwa written by Allama Iqbal with English translation.Jawab e shikwa is far amazing.The former displays complain to God by the believer and the latter is rsponse from God to the complain.I have only shared the first one.Read and enjoy: 
https://www.studybee.net/shikwa-by-allama-iqbal/

Regards

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## M. Sarmad

The state emblem of Pakistan, in the quartered shield in the centre, still shows jute... 

_vo jo ham meñ tum meñ qarār thā tumheñ yaad ho ki na yaad ho_

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## Avicenna

@Slav Defence

Thank you for this thread bro. Much needed. 

This forum, especially recently seems to be festering with toxic antagonism between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. (With others joining in)

However, I share your sentiments whole heartedly.

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## Slav Defence

Jawab e Shikwa with English translation:
https://www.studybee.net/jawab-e-shikwa-english/

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## MD hosain

Slav Defence said:


> Wishing best of luck to Bangladesh in future endeavors.


Thank you for this. Bangladesh Zindabad!!

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## Night_Fury

Thanks for this thread, it always makes me sad that we got separated. now getting to know the true background of this poem and reading it again for Bangladesh from Pakistan, it makes me even sadder that both these countries got separated (due to whatever the reason). I wish success and the very best of luck to Bangladesh.

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## Michael Corleone

wow! words aren't enough to describe how beautiful this song is!

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Lyrics full of laments, melody full of melancholy...

May be it’s too little and too late for some folks...

Forgive but don’t forget....


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## bluesky

maverick1977 said:


> Every year on Dec 16, me and my friends get together to understand what mistakes happened on Dec 16, shedding tears on what was lost, discussing war stories of bravery, discussing *how terrorism was spread in name of Pakistan army, raping of women by mostly Indians,* the mistakes of Pakistan army by killing of Bengali dissident and then the stab of terrorism sponsoring Indians, political mistakes of rulers, and failed military strategy from West, why China didn’t intervene, the reasons of why we got to this sad point because of discrimination of bengalis and the break up of Pakistan. We read troop movements, company formations and war strategy ... we finish our night with wo humsafar tha... it happened last night too ...such a loss... I was not born at that time, but I carry the pain Pakistan went through
> At the end we all vow that our generations should know what they should not do and remember how cunning and opportunist your enemy is... my kids understand ...
> Long live my beloved Pakistan, my life and my soul...


Bold part: Many things that you said can be accepted, but do not blame the Indians for killing and raping. Indians were not in our land before 16 December. Even their troops took shelter behind our Muktis to get rid of fear. You should accept the blame on yourself because it was PA troops that did all the heinous things in the east. 

Your Pathan tribesmen did similar things in Kashmir in 1948. You should reflect yourself all the misdeeds done by your forefathers and grandfathers in the name of Islam. Anyway, now you are doing almost similar things in your own country and nearby Afghanistan by bombing mosques and bazaars to kill innocent people. You have not changed since 1971. It is the Pakistanis who put Islam in Khatra all the time when you pretend to be its savior.

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## maverick1977

bluesky said:


> Bold part: Many things that you said can be accepted, but do not blame the Indians for killing and raping. Indians were not in our land before 16 December. Even their troops took shelter behind our Muktis to get rid of fear. You should accept the blame on yourself because it was PA troops that did all the heinous things in the east.
> 
> Your Pathan tribesmen did similar things in Kashmir in 1948. You should reflect yourself all the misdeeds done by your forefathers and grandfathers in the name of Islam. Anyway, now you are doing almost similar things in your own country and nearby Afghanistan by bombing mosques and bazaars to kill innocent people. You have not changed since 1971. It is the Pakistanis who put Islam in Khatra all the time when you pretend to be its savior.



It takes a man to accept responsibility and own their mistakes...

what do you expect Mukhti did in name of chaos. They were trained to kill bengalis and to rape Bengali women, who trained them ? Your Indian army and RAW. Indian army was involved in spreading chaos using their stooges and using media to slander pakistan army of the very ill, that they did in Bangladesh.
Pakistani army did one thing, that was to launch and crackdown on Bengali awami league... no rapes and loss of dignity of women, that is done by Indians and their stooges... if Pakistani army was like that then they would’ve done the same in FATA and in Azad Kashmir.. no Sir you are absolutely wrong, Indian amry is raised that way not the Pakistani army,
Islam was not spread through rape as you are raised to believe but through people and saints... how many times was dehli plundered except by nadir shah ... read and read again, instead of polluting your min with false narrative.

Again it does not add up, Pakistani army follows Muhammad PBUH, never harm innocent and religious places... it’s in their doctrine ... just as Muhammad PBUH ordered his armies when they entered Mecca... you don’t know who these men are, they are the best of the best breed.. a comparison that you can’t make with Indian army

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## Slav Defence

*Stick to the topic*

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## Al-zakir

Wallahi, very heart touching song. Faiz Ahmed heart was bleeding when he wrote this song.


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## Cookie Monster

Atlas said:


> @Slav Defence , thanks a lot brother for English translation of the lyrics . Now I can fully understand the song ! So touchy song . What happened has happened , but if still we ( both Bangladeshi and Pakistani brothers ) can move on and forget everything , then Pakistan and Bangladesh can be the best friendly nation forever . May Bangladesh and Pakistan live forever . Bangladesh Zindabad and Pakistan Zindabad !
> 
> Wishing Best of luck and prosperous future for Pakistan and Pakistani brothers and sisters!


It would be nice if Pak/Bangladesh can have friendly relations and move on from the past...and while I have met quite a few Bangladeshi ppl who have moved on from the past and are friendly towards Pakistanis...
...but there are others who just can't let that go and instead of looking to make a better future, they continue to define that future based on the horrible past. Haseena's government has played the biggest role in this. She keeps maligning Pakistan either to use the rhetoric to eliminate her political opponents or at India's behest or whatever other reason. In any case it deteriorates any chance for friendly relations.

On a separate note, regarding this song...though u've read its translation in English...it doesn't do justice to the meaning. If u could understand Urdu...the song would hold a much more deeper meaning. Quite a few Bangladeshi ppl made great contributions to Pak...as far as music industry goes, Runa Laila was also a great asset

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## Shahzaz ud din

Slav Defence said:


> *Please stick to the topic.*Thread reopened, any discussion over differences will not be appreciated.Please share Bengladeshi poetry with English Translation and we will also discuss Pakistani poetry.
> On the other hand, let us keep this thread positive.If anyone has to share any differences then please open up new thread.
> 
> Here is famous poetry Shikwa written by Allama Iqbal with English translation.Jawab e shikwa is far amazing.The former displays complain to God by the believer and the latter is rsponse from God to the complain.I have only shared the first one.Read and enjoy:
> https://www.studybee.net/shikwa-by-allama-iqbal/
> 
> Regards


*Shikwa/Jawab-e-Shikwa, Coke Studio Season 11*

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## Avicenna

Cookie Monster said:


> It would be nice if Pak/Bangladesh can have friendly relations and move on from the past...and while I have met quite a few Bangladeshi ppl who have moved on from the past and are friendly towards Pakistanis...
> ...but there are others who just can't let that go and instead of looking to make a better future, they continue to define that future based on the horrible past. Haseena's government has played the biggest role in this. She keeps maligning Pakistan either to use the rhetoric to eliminate her political opponents or at India's behest or whatever other reason. In any case it deteriorates any chance for friendly relations.
> 
> On a separate note, regarding this song...though u've read its translation in English...it doesn't do justice to the meaning. If u could understand Urdu...the song would hold a much more deeper meaning. Quite a few Bangladeshi ppl made great contributions to Pak...as far as music industry goes, Runa Laila was also a great asset



Totally agree.

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## Skies

Heard this song long time ago and many times.

But did not know it was about East Pakistan at that time!!

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## Nilgiri

Skies said:


> Heard this song long time ago and many times.
> 
> But did not know it was about East Pakistan at that time!!



Good to see you back bud!

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## bluesky



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## Bilal9

Cookie Monster said:


> but there are others who just can't let that go and instead of looking to make a better future, they continue to define that future based on the horrible past. Haseena's government has played the biggest role in this. She keeps maligning Pakistan either to use the rhetoric to eliminate her political opponents or at India's behest or whatever other reason. In any case it deteriorates any chance for friendly relations.



Those who are holding on to 1971 (including Hasina and her stooges) are doing it for motivated reasons (cowtowing to India, differentiating her position from that of Jamatis etc. and overall to keep being in power). 

We have to keep one thing clear, Hasina does not speak for all of Bangladesh, or even most of Bangladesh. her opinion is not the opinion of the majority in Bangladesh.

People here tolerate her only for her economic policies. No one gives two sh*ts about being friendly to Chaiwala's administration or his schemes.

Only India cowtowing stooges (including - I am sorry to say, some fifth columnist Hindus in Bangladesh) have any reason to keep animosity seeded and alive between both countries.

The day when Indians could control the politics and public discourse in Bangladesh is long, long gone. That ship has sailed. Even Hasina has realized this.

Indians keep trying in open, ugly fashion (sending their ministers every other month trying to float hilariously outlandish proposals) - but the sooner they realize it, the better.

Ultimately - the future of Bangladesh and Pakistan will be at least on an even keel as it is with India, mostly through interdependence of the economies. Culturally - it already is. Most Pakistanis know it - with some exceptions.

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## Cookie Monster

Bilal9 said:


> Those who are holding on to 1971 (including Hasina and her stooges) are doing it for motivated reasons (cowtowing to India, differentiating her position from that of Jamatis etc. and overall to keep being in power).


Whatever the reason maybe...bcuz it is the government's official position(motivated by Hasina's own feelings)...it is harming the potential future relations between the two nations.


Bilal9 said:


> We have to keep one thing clear, Hasina does not speak for all of Bangladesh, or even most of Bangladesh. her opinion is not the opinion of the majority in Bangladesh.
> 
> People here tolerate her only for her economic policies. No one gives two sh*ts about being friendly to Chaiwala's administration or his schemes.


Unfortunately it doesn't matter what the public wants...if the government is doing its own thing. The world sees the decisions and policies made by the BD government(or any other country's gov for that matter) and responds accordingly. No country in its response considers the will of the ppl bypassing the government.


Bilal9 said:


> Only India cowtowing stooges (including - I am sorry to say, some fifth columnist Hindus in Bangladesh) have any reason to keep animosity seeded and alive between both countries.
> 
> The day when Indians could control the politics and public discourse in Bangladesh is long, long gone. That ship has sailed. Even Hasina has realized this.


They already do bro. Just recently BD boycotted participating in the SARC summit at India's behest. Bhutan did the same...but I get it...what else can Bhutan do...it is forced to be an Indian stooge...
...but BD isnt...or more like BD has the potential to stand up for itself instead of being pushed around by some regional hegemon(the same way Pak does). Instead BD(due to Hasina) willingly chose to stick it to Pak to please India.

Personally I don't give a crap about SAARC. India with its behavior made it dysfunctional a long time ago. It had become symbolic rather than anything useful. However it's the principal of the matter. It showed Pakistan and Pakistanis that BD is going to side with India...and therefore going forward Pak should treat them accordingly...which just deteriorates the situation further.

And it's not just that one thing...it's a pattern. That above was just one of the major anti Pak thing BD(Hasina) did. Other things include issuing statements against Pak parroting the same thing as India...and accusing Pak of terrorism. All of this builds a profile of sorts that starts guiding the response of other governments. Based on this pattern of behavior, Pak gov will start treating BD either the same as Bhutan(as in no point in having any relations) or same as India(with animosity). It wouldn't matter that the ppl(Bangladeshi) felt different than Hasina.


Bilal9 said:


> Indians keep trying in open, ugly fashion (sending their ministers every other month trying to float hilariously outlandish proposals) - but the sooner they realize it, the better.


Whatever they are trying it's working. In addition to siding with India politically on world stage...BD also gave away some of its water to India in a deal recently struck. It's a consistent pattern of behaviors that have somewhat eroded BD's sovereignty as an independent state as India guides more and more BD's political course.


Bilal9 said:


> Ultimately - the future of Bangladesh and Pakistan will be at least on an even keel as it is with India, mostly through interdependence of the economies. Culturally - it already is. Most Pakistanis know it - with some exceptions.


That's fine however BD chooses to have a relationship with Pak...whether an economical one or diplomatic or any other form...so long as it starts heading in some positive direction. If Britain and France(or France and Germany) chose to continue defining their future based on their hundreds of years of war and animosity...the EU of today would have been worse off. One should look to build a better tomorrow than holding on to the past...BD's government should use that thinking.

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## Pakhtoon yum

Relations with the rogue provinces of afganistan and bangalia shall not be made, since they have a separatist mob occupying said lands..

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## Nilgiri

Cookie Monster said:


> Unfortunately it doesn't matter what the public wants...if the government is doing its own thing.



You really take what this kook has to say seriously? 2 million yearly BD tourists to India (and increasing massively each year) says otherwise:







Kowtowing stooges and 5th columnists indeed  Any basic sense would tell you if that were the case to any actual pragmatic extent, the number would be idling in the levels found in 2010. I mean Why spend the first immediate small increases in disposable income on the grand chaiwalla run enemy? Is the health/medical situation really _that_ bad compared to what BD govt lousily lies about with its numbers? That too all this happening alongside the number of BD ppl shot dead at border each year?

Let's not get onto how much BD people buy from India like the docile suckers they are...or how much Indian TV and culture they are hooked and addicted to. That again has no bearing on the control India has on the BD *psyche* (forget small fry things like "politics" and "public discourse").

But noooooo, obviously there are a whole list of countries in the world where you can rig an election to the tune of 95% seat and 85% vote....and yet still have no massive riots/protests out on the street if there is that much opposition to cooking lady PM (laughably explained away as "economic toleration" LOL).

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## Sine Nomine

Nilgiri said:


> Let's not get onto how much BD people buy from India like the docile suckers they are...or how much Indian TV and culture they are hooked and addicted to. That again has no bearing on the control India has on the BD *psyche* (forget small fry things like "politics" and "public discourse").


+1 for Bharat,for teaching them Urdu/Hindi.

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## Nilgiri

Sine Nomine said:


> +1 for Bharat,for teaching them Urdu/Hindi.



When I order a dish at BD run (always labelled as "Indian" tho) restaurant....I should not be forced to use unnatural number of "o" sounds like a gutka chewer lol. @I S I

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## Bilal9

Cookie Monster said:


> They already do bro. Just recently BD boycotted participating in the SARC summit at India's behest. Bhutan did the same...but I get it...what else can Bhutan do...it is forced to be an Indian stooge...
> ...but BD isnt...or more like BD has the potential to stand up for itself instead of being pushed around by some regional hegemon(the same way Pak does). Instead BD(due to Hasina) willingly chose to stick it to Pak to please India.



Waqt ayega - zaroor ayega. Biding our time - Sabr is a great virtue...

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## I S I

Nilgiri said:


> When I order a dish at BD run (always labelled as "Indian" tho) restaurant....I should not be forced to use unnatural number of "o" sounds like a gutka chewer lol. @I S I

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## ghost250

Sine Nomine said:


> +1 for Bharat,for teaching them Urdu/Hindi.


now for u hindi=urdu??lol...yeah ur hindi masters saved ur sorry asses couple of times and thats what u can do for them ...cheer for ur hindi masters...


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## Sine Nomine

shourov323 said:


> now for u hindi=urdu??lol...yeah ur hindi masters saved ur sorry asses couple of times and thats what u can do for them ...cheer for ur hindi masters...


How did they save mine,when they created a state for you?
On top of that Urdu and Hindi are same in speaking,mutually intelligible.

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## Bilal9

Sine Nomine said:


> How did they save mine,when they created a state for you?
> On top of that Urdu and Hindi are same in speaking,mutually intelligible.



Well, if we are going to be splitting hairs - here's another opinion...don't make the impression that all of 
India speaks or likes Hindi, far from it...

*OPINION: Hindi was created by British to divide, isn't common man's language*
Justice Katju says language of the common man in cities of Hindi belt is Hindustani




By Markandey Katju September 14, 2019 15:14 IST



A pro-Kannada group holding a protest against Hindi Diwas in Bengaluru | Twitter handle of ANI
Today (September 14) is celebrated as _Hindi Diwas_ (Hindi Day).

On this occasion, I wish to express something that may make me very unpopular among many people, but since I believe it is the truth, I will say it. I was never in a popularity contest and have often said things that have made me very unpopular.

The truth is that Hindi is an artificially created language, and is not the common man's language, even in the so-called Hindi-speaking belt of India. The language of the common man in the cities of the Hindi-speaking belt is not Hindi but Hindustani or Khadiboli (in rural areas, there are a large number of different dialects e.g., Avadhi, Brijbhasha, Bhojpuri, Maithili, Maghai, Mewari, Marwari, many of which Hindustani speakers will not even understand).

To explain the difference between Hindi and Hindustani, we may take a simple example. In Hindustani, we say_ Udhar dekhiye_ (look there). But for the same in Hindi, we say _Udhar avlokan keejiye_. Now, the common man will never say _avlokan_, and will always say _dekhiye_.

Up to 1947, Urdu was the language of the educated class of all communities in large parts of India, whether they were Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and other communities, while Hindustani was the language of the uneducated common man (in urban areas).

The British rulers artificially created Hindi through their agents like Bhartendu Harishchandra, as part of their divide-and-rule policy, and propagated the claim that Hindi is the language of Hindus, while Urdu is the language of Muslims (though, as mentioned previously, Urdu was the common language of both Hindus and Muslims among the educated class up to 1947).

To create this artificial language, what the Hindi bigots (who were objectively British agents) did was to hatefully replace Persian or Arabic words, which had entered common usage, by Sanskrit words, which were not in common usage (and so were difficult to understand).

I may give an illustration. Once, when I was a justice of the Allahabad High Court, a lawyer who would always argue in Hindi presented a petition before me titled _Pratibhu Avedan Patra_. Although my mother tongue is Hindustani (since I have lived most of my life in Uttar Pradesh), I could not understand this, so I asked the learned counsel what did the word _Pratibhu_ mean. He replied it meant bail. I said he should have used the word 'bail' or _zamanat,_ which everybody understood, instead of the word _Pratibhu,_ which nobody understood.

Similarly, once while taking a morning walk in the Cantonment area of Allahabad, I saw a board on which it was written _Pravaran Kendra_. I could not understand the meaning, and could only know it when I looked below where it was written in English 'recruitment centre'. If the words _Bharti Daftar_ had been written, there would have been no difficulty in understanding the meaning. But then _Daftar_ is a word of Persian origin, so how could our 'patriots' accept it?

Thousands of such examples can be given, where, after 1947, simple words, which the common man could easily understand, were sought to be hatefully removed since they were of Persian or Arabic origin. These words were replaced by Sanskrit words, which no one understood. In government notifications, often the language used was incomprehensible, as I found in cases before me in the Allahabad High Court. Similarly, many Hindi books are incomprehensible even to an educated person like me since many _klisht _(Sanskritised, and therefore difficult) words are used therein.

It is a mistake to think that a language becomes weaker if it adopts words from a foreign language; in fact, it becomes stronger. For instance, English borrowed words from scores of languages, but thereby it has become stronger, not weaker.

*ALSO READ*

Why I extended 1-month visas of Pakistanis to 5 years: Justice Katju
OPINION: Bonhomie between a Nawab and diwan—an epitome of Hindu-Muslim bond
OPINION: Thinking cow slaughter ban will end communal hatred is silly
OPINION: Modi must guard against China's kiss of death while meeting Xi
Hindustani, which the common man speaks, borrowed from many languages, and thereby became stronger. Once, I paid a certain amount to a rickshaw puller as the fare, and he said _wajib hai _(it is appropriate). Here, an illiterate man used a pure Persian word, which had come into his vocabulary. Why remove it?

These Hindi bigots did great damage to the two great all-India cultural languages: Sanskrit and Urdu. Sanskrit, which was really a great language of free thinkers, (see my online article _Sanskrit as a language of science_) was sought to be turned into an oppressor. And as for Urdu (see my online article _What is Urdu?_), near 'genocide' was committed on this great language, which has given some of the finest poetry in the world.

*Justice Markandey Katju retired from the Supreme Court in 2011.*


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## Shorisrip

Sine Nomine said:


> How did they save mine,when they created a state for you?
> On top of that Urdu and Hindi are same in speaking,mutually intelligible.



I wouldn't be so sure. Your "national language" is Urdu, an import from the Hindi Belt. Of course, this isn't something that is bad. I appreciate the pride of groups like Pashtuns and Sindhis, but its a shame that modern Punjabis (especially Lahoris) cannot utter a word of Punjabi. Punjabi parents thinks Punjabi is a "paindu/gavar" tongue, and instead are teaching Urdu to their kids (basically same thing that happened to West Punjabi origin Khatri partition refugees in Delhi). In Bangladesh, we're proud of our language (as demonstrated in 1952), and our native tongue means a lot to us.

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## Cookie Monster

Shorisrip said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. Your "national language" is Urdu, an import from the Hindi Belt. Of course, this isn't something that is bad. I appreciate the pride of groups like Pashtuns and Sindhis, but its a shame that modern Punjabis (especially Lahoris) cannot utter a word of Punjabi. Punjabi parents thinks Punjabi is a "paindu/gavar" tongue, and instead are teaching Urdu to their kids (basically same thing that happened to West Punjabi origin Khatri partition refugees in Delhi). In Bangladesh, we're proud of our language (as demonstrated in 1952), and our native tongue means a lot to us.


OMG not this useless debate again. Learning another language DOES NOT mean that u r embarrassed of ur own language. A language is a tool...used for communication. Using ur reasoning should I assume that bcuz u r speaking English here...therefore u must think of "Bengali" as a "paindu" tongue?

The real reason u learned English and are speaking it here is bcuz English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world...and the fact that knowledge is just knowledge...the more u know the better. Just like that...if a Punjabi learns and speaks Urdu it doesn't mean he/she is embarrassed of speaking Punjabi. I am from Punjab myself...and I know both Punjabi and Urdu. Just like that there are Pathans who can speak Pashto and Urdu, and so on and so forth in every province of Pakistan. Urdu is taught as an ADDITIONAL language in schools(bcuz it is the national language)...no one is forced to not speak or shun their mother tongue. It's perfectly fine to take pride in ur mother tongue as ur identity...in addition u learn the national language (just like u learned English) as a tool...a means of communication with the rest of ur countrymen. If Urdu was to be removed and each province focused on only the regional languages...it would be hard to create a national uniformity of sorts. How would a teacher who is Sindhi be able to teach Baloch students? How would a Punjabi tourist be able to communicate with anyone in Gilgit? How would a Pathan leader(Imran Khan) address the nation that includes non Pathans(like Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi, Kashmiris, etc.)?

This is why Urdu was also introduced in BD(formerly East Pak). There was no compulsion for Bengali ppl not to speak Bengali. Urdu was supposed to be an additional language for the purpose of creating a commonality in language for the Pakistani ppl(which included Bengalis). U and other Bengalis here point out how u guys resisted and are proud of ur own language(Bengali)...well then using that same reasoning...u shouldn't be speaking English. By doing so u r being a traitor to ur mother tongue...just like how learning/speaking Urdu(in addition to Bengali) was a big no no, why are u guys okay with English?
Could it be that English is considered more prestigious by u bcuz it is the language of goras(White Europeans) whereas poor Urdu is just another regional "paindu" language?

It reminds me of the recent news about how some Indians were making a huge issue going after Justin Trudeau for saying "Diwali Mubarak"...apparently using the word "Mubarak" with its Arabic origins was a big no no. Then a bit later those same hateful creatures were calling their soldiers "shaheed" instead of "killed" and all of a sudden it didnt matter that "shaheed" was also an Arabic origin word.

The point is that one should look at the FUNCTION a language serves instead of hating it just bcuz it originated elsewhere. U and others like u hate a language bcuz it is associated with the ppl u hate...that is pathetic.

@Nilgiri the whole idiotic debate about language has started again

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## Shorisrip

Cookie Monster said:


> OMG not this useless debate again. Learning another language DOES NOT mean that u r embarrassed of ur own language. A language is a tool...used for communication. Using ur reasoning should I assume that bcuz u r speaking English here...therefore u must think of "Bengali" as a "paindu" tongue?
> 
> The real reason u learned English and are speaking it here is bcuz English is one of the most widely spoken languages in the world...and the fact that knowledge is just knowledge...the more u know the better. Just like that...if a Punjabi learns and speaks Urdu it doesn't mean he/she is embarrassed of speaking Punjabi. I am from Punjab myself...and I know both Punjabi and Urdu. Just like that there are Pathans who can speak Pashto and Urdu, and so on and so forth in every province of Pakistan. Urdu is taught as an ADDITIONAL language in schools(bcuz it is the national language)...no one is forced to not speak or shun their mother tongue. It's perfectly fine to take pride in ur mother tongue as ur identity...in addition u learn the national language (just like u learned English) as a tool...a means of communication with the rest of ur countrymen. If Urdu was to be removed and each province focused on only the regional languages...it would be hard to create a national uniformity of sorts. How would a teacher who is Sindhi be able to teach Baloch students? How would a Punjabi tourist be able to communicate with anyone in Gilgit? How would a Pathan leader(Imran Khan) address the nation that includes non Pathans(like Baloch, Sindhi, Punjabi, Kashmiris, etc.)?
> 
> This is why Urdu was also introduced in BD(formerly East Pak). There was no compulsion for Bengali ppl not to speak Bengali. Urdu was supposed to be an additional language for the purpose of creating a commonality in language for the Pakistani ppl(which included Bengalis). U and other Bengalis here point out how u guys resisted and are proud of ur own language(Bengali)...well then using that same reasoning...u shouldn't be speaking English. By doing so u r being a traitor to ur mother tongue...just like how learning/speaking Urdu(in addition to Bengali) was a big no no, why are u guys okay with English?
> Could it be that English is considered more prestigious by u bcuz it is the language of goras whereas poor Urdu is just another regional language...which as u put it a "paindu" langauge?
> 
> @Nilgiri the whole idiotic debate about language has started again



I never said that Urdu being the national language is bad, but you can't criticize Bangladesh for adopting "indian mannerisms" at the same time (which never happened). Also, the 1952 agitation was based on the sole imposition of Urdu, which was also used for government board exams which was discriminatory towards Bengalis (comprising the majority of Pakistan)who did not speak Urdu or have the ability to read/write the script.

I'm not against a lingua franca, but its not my opinion that loads of urban Punjabis never teach their kids Punjabi (that's why you have the 'Punjabi bachao' movement  ). I've never claimed Pashtuns, Sindhis or Baloch don't want to speak their own languages. In Central Punjab, in Lahore or Faisalabad, the situation for Punjabi is grim (its much better in the South and Potohar ofc which I won't deny). Punjabi will survive in the pinds, but will die out in the cities and towns.

Edit: Also I'm not here to argue with you. I will most likely not read your comment.


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## Cookie Monster

Shorisrip said:


> I never said that Urdu being the national language is bad, but you can't criticize Bangladesh for adopting "indian mannerisms" at the same time (which never happened). Also, the 1952 agitation was based on the sole imposition of Urdu, which was also used for government board exams which was discriminatory towards Bengalis (comprising the majority of Pakistan)who did not speak Urdu or have the ability to read/write the script.
> 
> I'm not against a lingua franca, but its not my opinion that loads of urban Punjabis never teach their kids Punjabi (that's why you have the 'Punjabi bachao' movement  ). I've never claimed Pashtuns, Sindhis or Baloch don't want to speak their own languages. In Central Punjab, in Lahore or Faisalabad, the situation for Punjabi is grim (its much better in the South and Potohar ofc which I won't deny). Punjabi will survive in the pinds, but will die out in the cities and towns.


When Urdu was "imposed" on Bengalis it was also "imposed" on Punjabis, Pathans, Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, and Muhajirs alike. Urdu wasn't the mother tongue of a large portion of west Pakistanis(except for those who migrated from India). Urdu itself was the language originally spoken widely in India's UP, Hyderabad, and Dehli among other areas. So the notion that it was the east Pakistanis who had to go through this whole "unfair ordeal" is just BS...a majority of West Pakistanis had to go through the same thing...and they didn't complain bcuz a common language was needed for nation building.

As for Punjabi dying out in big cities...it has less to do with ppl looking down on Punjabi and more to do with clustering of educated(high school or more) population together. If u have gone through high school or further in Pak...the chances are u speak Urdu. If that is the common language that is spoken...it becomes the go to choice for ppl. The same holds true of ALL the major cities in Pak...not just Lahore. I've been to Karachi(Sindh) and Peshawar(KPK) and I spoke Urdu without any difficulty...didn't run into a single person who didn't understand me. The same thing can be observed here in US...ppl from all sorts of places come here and though they may speak Russian, Bulgarian, Chinese, Tagalog, etc...when it comes to daily life communication they all speak English. Not bcuz they are being forced by anyone or they don't take pride in their own language...but bcuz it's easier and practical to have uniformity in language with those around u.

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## Nilgiri

Cookie Monster said:


> @Nilgiri the whole idiotic debate about language has started again


\

It's always the case, lurking behind ready to stronk stronk it up.

Its just better to joke about it now....but I guess many want to have the "last word" (ironically) on this stuff.


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## Cookie Monster

Nilgiri said:


> \
> 
> It's always the case, lurking behind ready to stronk stronk it up.
> 
> Its just better to joke about it now....but I guess many want to have the "last word" (ironically) on this stuff.


It just rubs me the wrong way when ppl attribute "human" like qualities with something that's pure invention(a tool) just so they can hate it. It's like hating Physics or Computer Science...it's complete nonsense and pure madness. A language is no different...it serves a function...which is to facilitate communication and understanding.

Cherry on top is that they reveal rejecting to learn Urdu while speaking in English. It's like an anti vaccer going to a doctor for treatment(implicitly accepting him as the expert in medical field) and reject those same experts when it comes to vaccination...just mind boggling hypocrisy.

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## Sine Nomine

Shorisrip said:


> I wouldn't be so sure. Your "national language" is Urdu, an import from the Hindi Belt. Of course, this isn't something that is bad. I appreciate the pride of groups like Pashtuns and Sindhis, but its a shame that modern Punjabis (especially Lahoris) cannot utter a word of Punjabi. Punjabi parents thinks Punjabi is a "paindu/gavar" tongue, and instead are teaching Urdu to their kids (basically same thing that happened to West Punjabi origin Khatri partition refugees in Delhi). In Bangladesh, we're proud of our language (as demonstrated in 1952), and our native tongue means a lot to us.


You should update knowledge of Geography,Khariboli(Urdu/Hindi) origined around and in Delhi,which was part of Punjab.It isn't imported just has travelled.
I don't know who told you this garbage.Punjabi is still widely spoken language in Pakistan.
You are proud of your lang,where it has got you,i hope you reach on mars soon by just having that pride.


Nilgiri said:


> \
> 
> It's always the case, lurking behind ready to stronk stronk it up.
> 
> Its just better to joke about it now....but I guess many want to have the "last word" (ironically) on this stuff.


Suck and geography,forget always that Khariboli originated in Delhi which was part of Punjab, it was capital of Hindustan pretty much even before origin of them and langauge cycle has been going since ages,they come and die.



Bilal9 said:


> Well, if we are going to be splitting hairs - here's another opinion...don't make the impression that all of
> India speaks or likes Hindi, far from it...
> 
> *OPINION: Hindi was created by British to divide, isn't common man's language*
> Justice Katju says language of the common man in cities of Hindi belt is Hindustani
> 
> 
> 
> 
> By Markandey Katju September 14, 2019 15:14 IST
> 
> 
> 
> A pro-Kannada group holding a protest against Hindi Diwas in Bengaluru | Twitter handle of ANI
> Today (September 14) is celebrated as _Hindi Diwas_ (Hindi Day).
> 
> On this occasion, I wish to express something that may make me very unpopular among many people, but since I believe it is the truth, I will say it. I was never in a popularity contest and have often said things that have made me very unpopular.
> 
> The truth is that Hindi is an artificially created language, and is not the common man's language, even in the so-called Hindi-speaking belt of India. The language of the common man in the cities of the Hindi-speaking belt is not Hindi but Hindustani or Khadiboli (in rural areas, there are a large number of different dialects e.g., Avadhi, Brijbhasha, Bhojpuri, Maithili, Maghai, Mewari, Marwari, many of which Hindustani speakers will not even understand).
> 
> To explain the difference between Hindi and Hindustani, we may take a simple example. In Hindustani, we say_ Udhar dekhiye_ (look there). But for the same in Hindi, we say _Udhar avlokan keejiye_. Now, the common man will never say _avlokan_, and will always say _dekhiye_.
> 
> Up to 1947, Urdu was the language of the educated class of all communities in large parts of India, whether they were Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and other communities, while Hindustani was the language of the uneducated common man (in urban areas).
> 
> The British rulers artificially created Hindi through their agents like Bhartendu Harishchandra, as part of their divide-and-rule policy, and propagated the claim that Hindi is the language of Hindus, while Urdu is the language of Muslims (though, as mentioned previously, Urdu was the common language of both Hindus and Muslims among the educated class up to 1947).
> 
> To create this artificial language, what the Hindi bigots (who were objectively British agents) did was to hatefully replace Persian or Arabic words, which had entered common usage, by Sanskrit words, which were not in common usage (and so were difficult to understand).
> 
> I may give an illustration. Once, when I was a justice of the Allahabad High Court, a lawyer who would always argue in Hindi presented a petition before me titled _Pratibhu Avedan Patra_. Although my mother tongue is Hindustani (since I have lived most of my life in Uttar Pradesh), I could not understand this, so I asked the learned counsel what did the word _Pratibhu_ mean. He replied it meant bail. I said he should have used the word 'bail' or _zamanat,_ which everybody understood, instead of the word _Pratibhu,_ which nobody understood.
> 
> Similarly, once while taking a morning walk in the Cantonment area of Allahabad, I saw a board on which it was written _Pravaran Kendra_. I could not understand the meaning, and could only know it when I looked below where it was written in English 'recruitment centre'. If the words _Bharti Daftar_ had been written, there would have been no difficulty in understanding the meaning. But then _Daftar_ is a word of Persian origin, so how could our 'patriots' accept it?
> 
> Thousands of such examples can be given, where, after 1947, simple words, which the common man could easily understand, were sought to be hatefully removed since they were of Persian or Arabic origin. These words were replaced by Sanskrit words, which no one understood. In government notifications, often the language used was incomprehensible, as I found in cases before me in the Allahabad High Court. Similarly, many Hindi books are incomprehensible even to an educated person like me since many _klisht _(Sanskritised, and therefore difficult) words are used therein.
> 
> It is a mistake to think that a language becomes weaker if it adopts words from a foreign language; in fact, it becomes stronger. For instance, English borrowed words from scores of languages, but thereby it has become stronger, not weaker.
> 
> *ALSO READ*
> 
> Why I extended 1-month visas of Pakistanis to 5 years: Justice Katju
> OPINION: Bonhomie between a Nawab and diwan—an epitome of Hindu-Muslim bond
> OPINION: Thinking cow slaughter ban will end communal hatred is silly
> OPINION: Modi must guard against China's kiss of death while meeting Xi
> Hindustani, which the common man speaks, borrowed from many languages, and thereby became stronger. Once, I paid a certain amount to a rickshaw puller as the fare, and he said _wajib hai _(it is appropriate). Here, an illiterate man used a pure Persian word, which had come into his vocabulary. Why remove it?
> 
> These Hindi bigots did great damage to the two great all-India cultural languages: Sanskrit and Urdu. Sanskrit, which was really a great language of free thinkers, (see my online article _Sanskrit as a language of science_) was sought to be turned into an oppressor. And as for Urdu (see my online article _What is Urdu?_), near 'genocide' was committed on this great language, which has given some of the finest poetry in the world.
> 
> *Justice Markandey Katju retired from the Supreme Court in 2011.*


Bilal Khariboli(Urdu/Hindi)came way before Brits came Amir Khusrow did poetry in Urdu his era was from 1253 to 1325.Brits did promoted it but saying that they just made a languge for sake of dividing Hindustan is plain lie.

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## Slav Defence

Some posters are trying to lebel me as pro xyz nation and are trying to drain my efforts to maintain peace between Bangladeshi and Pakistani people. I have no words to define them and I don't care as well. I have personally neither roots from Bengal nor anywhere even close. However, by studying history and politics has made me realize how much illiterate attitude some people from Pakistan and Bengal has and I am unhappy to admit that some people shall remain illiterate and never learn from past. I leave their matters upon Allah subhanawatala and hope that one day these people will learn.
On the other hand, I really appreciate both Pakistani and Bangladeshi peers of ours to contribute positively. I hope that like us, they are also looking forward towards better relationship in future.
Regards

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