# US Deploys F-22's to base near Iran



## Thomas

*US Deploys F-22's to base near Iran
By Justin Fishel
Published April 27, 2012*



US deploys F-22s to base near Iran | Fox News

"The U.S. military has deployed several F-22s, the nation's most advanced fighter jets, to an allied base less than 200 miles from Iran.

The Air Force strongly denies this deployment is meant as a show of force against Iran or that it is in some way related to a potential strike on Iran's nuclear facilities. Rather, it says this is all part of a routine deployment and "security cooperation with regional partners."

The Air Force won't say how many jets were sent or exactly where they are stationed, but privately, U.S. officials have told Fox News the jets are in hangars at the United Arab Emirates' Al Dafra Air Base, a fact first reported by Aviation Week.

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## USAHawk785

Oh yes !


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## Don Jaguar




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## lightoftruth

bad news for iran (nuclear sites).

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## kingofkings

Wow man I was quite skeptical before but seeing this I have to definitely give credit to Iran. Really US Raptor for a country which has been sanctioned and deprived of all the latest tech and still your bring your best !!!!. 

USAF make sure this time nothing gets into the hands of opponents or else it'll loose the tag of world's advanced fighter.

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## USAHawk785

The mullahs in Iran are pissing their pants as we speak.

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## Don Jaguar

USAHawk785 said:


> The mullahs in Iran are pissing their pants as we speak.



This war will be suicidal mistake of US.

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## Lighting_Fighter

I thought they stop manufacturing F-22


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## Roybot

Shytes about to get real? 



Lighting_Fighter said:


> I thought they stop manufacturing F-22



They can still use the 200 odd they already manufactured you know

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## USAHawk785

Don Jaguar said:


> This war will be suicidal mistake of US.



If Iran continues its nuclear ambitions, it will be to the detriment of her immediate strategic interests.


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## Lighting_Fighter

come on america yo're great start the 3rd world war?


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## USAHawk785

There will be no 3rd world war, Iran has been sanctioned by the United Nations to cease nuclear procurement activities, still they have relinquished. If it will not heed international demands, then, it must be contained, if it is necessitated for regional stability.

These F-22s would be capable in committing surgical strikes on any known nuclear sites as well as in effectively neutralizing all known Iranian surface to air systems.


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## SMStealth

USAHawk785 said:


> There will be no 3rd world war, Iran has been sanctioned by the United Nations to cease nuclear procurement activities, still they have relinquished. If it will not heed international demands, then, it must be contained, if it is necessitated for regional stability.
> 
> These F-22s would be capable in *committing surgical strikes on any known nuclear sites* as well as in effectively neutralizing all known Iranian surface to air systems.



But Dude aren't Iran's Nuclear site underground...Won't an aircraft much heavier (read B-2) will be required to do the Job???


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## LeGenD

SuperManouverableStealth said:


> But Dude aren't Iran's Nuclear site underground...Won't an aircraft much heavier (read B-2) will be required to do the Job???


F22 can be used to knock out defensive systems around those sites and conduct other precision strike missions. They will make sure that USA gains complete air superiority over enemy territory before the bombers move in.

Bad news for Iran. What surprises me is that Iranians are underestimating US resolve and making fun of Isreali threats. They should tread carefully.



Don Jaguar said:


> This war will be suicidal mistake of US.


Bro, understand that these are empty threats. This war will be suicidal for Iran instead, as much it hurts to say this.

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## Markus

This is not good.

War is coming and oil prices will now go up. Inflation is already so high in India.

The govt is planning to deregulate diesel prices and with this war coming, food inflation will break all records.

Why cant you MORONS solve this issue over a cup of coffee?

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## USAHawk785

SuperManouverableStealth said:


> But Dude aren't Iran's Nuclear site underground...Won't an aircraft much heavier (read B-2) will be required to do the Job???




Iran has a plethora of nuclear sites that are not located underground, many of them, including the IR-40 site, which is a heavy reactor facility, would be targeted via precision strikes in such an attack. In case of strategic strikes to the enemy's nuclear sites, dozens of these nuclear sites would be destroyed, including any of their surface to air defense shields. 

I would contest that in case of a precision strike, the United States Air Force would coordinate with the Israeli Air Force, which would level the Iranian Air Force that would be considered strategic threats to the operation. 

The presence of the F-22s in the region is a visual manifestation of American force; a simple sign that the United States will not tolerate further ambiguous Iranian leadership colloquy.



LeGenD said:


> F22 can be used to knock out defensive systems around those sites and conduct other precision strike missions. They will make sure that USA gains complete air superiority over enemy territory before the bombers move in.
> 
> Bad news for Iran. What surprises me is that Iranians are underestimating US resolve and making fun of Isreali threats. They should tread carefully.
> 
> 
> Bro, understand that these are empty threats. This war will be suicidal for Iran instead, as much it hurts to say this.



Legend, 

Your response is prudent and wise. Thank you for showing a realistic and level-headed reply. I concur with you, that the use of F-22s will be to eradicate Iranian air defense systems; whence this is done, Iran would be incapable of challenging any strategic air strikes from CBGs in the Arabian Gulf. 

In conjunction with this, Israeli Air Strikes would pulverize any of Iran's tactical armored bases as well as key targets. 

It is to the detriment of any and all of Iran's national interest to defy UN sanctions to cease nuclear ambitions and procurement activities.

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## rohailmalhi

USAHawk785 said:


> There will be no 3rd world war, Iran has been sanctioned by the United Nations to cease nuclear procurement activities, still they have relinquished. If it will not heed international demands, then, it must be contained, if it is necessitated for regional stability.
> 
> These F-22s would be capable in committing surgical strikes on any known nuclear sites as well as in effectively neutralizing all known Iranian surface to air systems.



Just like you have sontained Iraq . Claiming them to have WMD's but what was the result , choas , killings , bombings, and u were very sucessful in destrying the country and starting almost a civil war.

hmmm....... what abt Afghanistan 10 years and still playing hide and seek with Talibans. They still control the larger area of Afghanistan.

Stop being an isreali puppet and try to think with ur brain not with ur knees. 

Fancy planes and there fancy arnament costs money which US of A dont have much plus do u really think u can bomb iran and iran will let go of you so easily.

Stop bringing democrazy everywhere , let people decide what they want.Stop being dad of everyone.


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## USAHawk785

rohailmalhi said:


> Just like you have sontained Iraq . Claiming them to have WMD's but what was the result , choas , killings , bombings, and u were very sucessful in destrying the country and starting almost a civil war.
> 
> hmmm....... what abt Afghanistan 10 years and still playing hide and seek with Talibans. They still control the larger area of Afghanistan.
> 
> Stop being an isreali puppet and try to think with ur brain not with ur knees.
> 
> Fancy planes and there fancy arnament costs money which US of A dont have much plus do u really think u can bomb iran and iran will let go of you so easily.
> 
> Stop bringing democrazy everywhere , let people decide what they want.Stop being dad of everyone.



1. The United States has freed Iraq from a violent dictator, and after a long and ardent training process, Iraq is back on its feet as a democracy, a model for the region. 

2. The expulsion of the Taliban was necessary and mandated for the interest of US global strategy. 

3. The United States sides with Israel on some key issues because there is a shared interest.

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## Awesome

No way a peace loving country like the UAE will part-take in a war.

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## Abii

It's an orgy in here! 
Control your hormones people. Go beat off to an action movie or smtg. 

The collective IQ of this thread is the size of my left ball. 

What exactly is the significance of an F-22 vis-a-vis Iran? The platora of jets parked in the Persian Gulf flew back to base or something? What difference does it make if the Americans have an F-16 or an F-22?

This thread reminds me the "come at me bro" memes. Just a bunch of dorky kids with too much hormones and old men spending their last days acting tough on the cyber space.

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## Peaceful Civilian

Why U.S.A need f22 against Iraqi F14s.....??


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## Abii

USAHawk785 said:


> If Iran continues its nuclear ambitions, it will be to the detriment of her immediate strategic interests.


Isn't that what you said in 1990, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011?

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## Safriz

iran may not have means to shoot down the raptors but they have means of attacking and destroying the runways raptors will use...

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## LeGenD

Safriz said:


> iran may not have means to shoot down the raptors but they have means of attacking and destroying the runways raptors will use...


US military bases are protected by ABM systems and other defensive systems. Key to US strategy is _deception_. Spectators keep guessing what will happen.


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## anon45

Peaceful Civlian said:


> Why U.S.A need f22 against Iraqi F14s.....??



Because this isn't a game. Use the best to end it as quickly as possible.

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## Safriz

LeGenD said:


> US military bases are protected by ABM systems and other defensive systems. Key to US strategy is _deception_. Spectators keep guessing what will happen.


 
and we all know that ABM have low success rate.

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## anon45

Markus said:


> This is not good.
> 
> War is coming and oil prices will now go up. Inflation is already so high in India.
> 
> The govt is planning to deregulate diesel prices and with this war coming, food inflation will break all records.
> 
> Why cant you MORONS solve this issue over a cup of coffee?



Because we've tried for nearly a decade with little to show. The time for talk over coffee is fading.
:edit: though I say this these F-22 aren't likely for an imminent planned attack, there is too much press. Probably psychological move for Iran.


Safriz said:


> and we all know that ABM have low success rate.



low success is better than none, though I think its success rate is understated.


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## westtowel



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## LeGenD

Safriz said:


> and we all know that ABM have low success rate.


The latest US ABM systems are considerably better then PAC 1 and PAC 2. 

PAC 3, Aegis based SM3, and THAAD are excellent systems.


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## Windjammer

Ashes to ashes.......Dust to dust.....

If Iraq & Afghan didn't teach you.....then Iran must. !!!

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## rohailmalhi

USAHawk785 said:


> 1. The United States has freed Iraq from a violent dictator, and after a long and ardent training process, Iraq is back on its feet as a democracy, a model for the region.
> 
> 2. The expulsion of the Taliban was necessary and mandated for the interest of US global strategy.
> 
> 3. The United States sides with Israel on some key issues because there is a shared interest.



Looking at your reply Now i totally believe in the power of media. U are so much brainwashed by ur media .

1- Back on its feet , u destroy that country Just on the bases of fake WMD. as u are now against Iran .

2- Taliban Oh come on its the other way round,They are still in power in Afghanistan.

3- Shared Intrest i feel like they are using u as donkey. Whenever they have issue they get behind ur back .America takes all the damage and u are talking abt shared intrests....... can u plz highlight those intrests which goes only one way. They have hijacked america and u still think its good for u to take side with them.

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## Fazlu

Windjammer said:


> Ashes to ashes.......Dust to dust.....
> 
> If Iraq & Afghan didn't teach you.....then Iran must. !!!



I wonder how many lessons you plan on "teaching them" till you realize you failed right when you set out to seek someone else's demise.

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## USAHawk785

Windjammer said:


> Ashes to ashes.......Dust to dust.....
> 
> If Iraq & Afghan didn't teach you.....then Iran must. !!!



Roses and red, violets are blue,
Better watch what you say because
Uncle Sam is watching You.

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## LeGenD

Windjammer said:


> Ashes to ashes.......Dust to dust.....
> 
> If Iraq & Afghan didn't teach you.....then Iran must. !!!


These nations taught US a lot about urban and counter-insurgency warfare.

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## Windjammer

Fazlu said:


> I wonder how many lessons you plan on "teaching them" *till you realize you failed right when you set out to seek someone else's demise.*



I'll say cheers for the bolded part.


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## USAHawk785

rohailmalhi said:


> Looking at your reply Now i totally believe in the power of media. U are so much brainwashed by ur media .
> 
> 1- Back on its feet , u destroy that country Just on the bases of fake WMD. as u are now against Iran .
> 
> 2- Taliban Oh come on its the other way round,They are still in power in Afghanistan.
> 
> 3- Shared Intrest i feel like they are using u as donkey. Whenever they have issue they get behind ur back .America takes all the damage and u are talking abt shared intrests....... can u plz highlight those intrests which goes only one way. They have hijacked america and u still think its good for u to take side with them.




Despite the questionability of the pretext for the invasion of Iraq, in the end, the deposition of the violent Husseini regime was tantamount and necessary to relegate a sense of democracy for the people in Iraq; in particular, the Shi-a, the Kurdz as well as the Sunni minority. Despite the presence of terrorists in Iraq and their foible attempt to undermine American development, the Iraqi Government is operational and the country is beginning to rebuild itself. 



LeGenD said:


> These nations taught US a lot about urban and counter-insurgency warfare.



In addition, because of our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States Army is a battle-hardened and operationally time tested entity. 

Not bad considering that the Army was involved directly in nation building, something that it was never trained to do, which, however, proved possible. 

Iraq is a success story for us.


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## Safriz

LeGenD said:


> These nations taught US that they suck at urban and counter-insurgency warfare.


 here...corrected your comment

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## rohailmalhi

USAHawk785 said:


> Despite the questionability of the pretext for the invasion of Iraq, in the end, *the deposition of the violent Husseini regime was tantamount and necessary to relegate a sense of democracy for the people in Iraq*; in particular, the Shi-a, the Kurdz as well as the Sunni minority. Despite the presence of terrorists in Iraq and their foible attempt to undermine American development, the Iraqi Government is operational and the country is beginning to rebuild itself.
> 
> 
> 
> In addition, because of our experiences in Iraq and Afghanistan, the United States Army is a battle-hardened and operationally time tested entity.
> 
> Not bad considering that the Army was involved directly in nation building, something that it was never trained to do, which, however, proved possible.
> 
> Iraq is a success story for us.



Really...... DO u need to post gruesome video of US soldier raping and killing Iraqi famalies . Do i need to remind u what attorcities u have done in Iraq. 

Please dont justify anything. I was really not thinking of getting such a childish reply from you.Rather then accepting ur fault u are justifying the choas u bring to that country. 

As far as saddam it was your GOVT who made him dictator on first place.and when u dont need him u invaded a country. Just like u did with afghanistan

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## USAHawk785

Tactical and strategic points were met. in regards to cases of war crimes committed by soldiers, that is unfortunate, and have been handled accordingly. In the end, Iraq is in a better position than it was prior to our intervention. 

Back to topic, as far as I remember, Iraq is not part of the subject matter. 

Regards.


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## Birbal

USAHawk785 said:


> There will be no 3rd world war, Iran has been sanctioned by the United Nations to cease nuclear procurement activities, still they have relinquished. If it will not heed international demands, then, it must be contained, if it is necessitated for regional stability.
> 
> *These F-22s would be capable in committing surgical strikes on any known nuclear sites as well as in effectively neutralizing all known Iranian surface to air systems.*



F-22 can't do **** against ground targets. It's only useful against Iranian F-14s and Mig-29s.


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## USAHawk785

Birbal said:


> F-22 can't do **** against ground targets. It's only useful against Iranian F-14s and Mig-29s.

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## Safriz

USAHawk785 said:


> Tactical and strategic points were met. in regards to cases of war crimes committed by soldiers, that is unfortunate, and have been handled accordingly. In the end, Iraq is in a better position than it was prior to our intervention.
> 
> Back to topic, as far as I remember, Iraq is not part of the subject matter.
> 
> Regards.


 
mate dont start me on iraq...i was thereduring the decade long embargo...and it was horrendous.
women offering sex to us because they needed money...childen dyng in hospitals due to no medicines...
food more expensive than a womans dignity....
USA broken them fown beyond repair at every level...

better keep the thread on topic...and avoid making tall claims you dont know about.

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## USAHawk785

Safriz said:


> mate dont start me on iraq...i was thereduring the decade long embargo...and it was horrendous.
> women offering sex to us because they needed money...childen dyng in hospitals due to no medicines...
> food more expensive than a womans dignity....
> USA broken them fown beyond repair at every level...
> 
> better keep the thread on topic...and avoid making tall claims you dont know about.



I know precisely how it was like in Iraq during the transitional years as I was there 5 years ago. Despite the difficulties in quelling incessant terrorist activities, delegating with both Sunni and Shi'i local leaders, the establishment of a government in that country was observed. The issue of Iraq proves relevance as it's success was part of our strategic interest. I would rather not touch on unnecessary domestic issues that occurred in that country as it has no pertinence in regards to the relevance of tactical strikes. 

Let's stick to the topic and stray from diverting from the subject matter. 

PS. Thank you for sharing your view on the matter tho.

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## Birbal

The F-22 doesn't have its own laser designator, which means it can only hit chosen targets using GPS. Most of the fixed targets in Iran are heavily underground, so those tiny bombs will not be useful against these targets.


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## USAHawk785

Birbal said:


> The F-22 doesn't have its own laser designator, which means it can only hit chosen targets using GPS. Most of the fixed targets in Iran are heavily underground, so those tiny bombs will not be useful against these targets.



F-22s can be equipped with larger bombs that will be capable in targeting and neutralizing key targets. In addition, this system is quite accurate.

Majority of Iran's nuclear facilities are above ground; parachin complex, tehran research reactor, yadz research reactor, lashkar abad reactor, isfahan conversion facility etc. 

We ascribe to the fact that there will be some Iranian sites that will survive the tactical strike; but the overwhelming majority will be neutralized.

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## USAHawk785

The JDAM is a guidance kit that converts existing unguided gravity bombs, or "dumb bombs", into all-weather "smart" munitions. JDAM equipped bombs are guided to their target by an integrated inertial guidance system coupled with a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver for enhanced accuracy, giving them a published range of up to 15 nautical miles


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## LeGenD

Safriz said:


> here...corrected your comment


Your assessment is shortsighted.

1. US does not sucks in Urban warfare. Most famous example in WOT is Battle of Fallujah, which was very intense. 

2. US have taught Pakistani forces a lot about counter-insurgency warfare. In addition, *Operation Neptune Spear* is a famous example of counter-insurgency capability of US and this event occurred deep inside in Pakistan.


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## USAHawk785

A 2,000 lb JDAM strike


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## Abii

USAHawk785 said:


> F-22s can be equipped with larger bombs that will be capable in targeting and neutralizing key targets. In addition, this system is quite accurate.
> 
> Majority of Iran's nuclear facilities are above ground; *parachin complex,* tehran research reactor, yadz research reactor, lashkar abad reactor, isfahan conversion facility etc.
> 
> We ascribe to the fact that there will be some Iranian sites that will survive the tactical strike; but the overwhelming majority will be neutralized.


shows how much you know 

parchin isn't even a nuclear site! It's a military site that inspectors are interested in. Most of the centrifuges in Isfahan have now been transferred to Fordo, which cannot be penetrated by anything currently available on earth, bar nukes (more on this later). Arak is an experimental heavy water reactor. Bushehr and Natanz cannot be touched because they're live (radiation over the entire ME and the subcontinent blah blah). 

Iran already has enough uranium for 4-6 nukes. Iran is also enriching to 20% at Fordo and we all know that it's much easier to go from 20 to 90+ than it's to go from 3.5 to 20. 

Here's info regarding Fordo:



> Leon Panetta, America&#8217;s defence secretary, seems worried. He recently admitted that his own country&#8217;s new bunker-busting bomb, the Massive Ordnance Penetrator (MOP, pictured above being dropped from a B-52), needs an upgrade to take on the deepest Iranian bunkers. But even that may not be enough, thanks to Iran&#8217;s mastery of smart concrete



Bunker-busting: Smart concrete | The Economist



> WASHINGTON: The US military has concluded that its largest conventional bomb is not capable of destroying Iran's most heavily fortified underground facilities suspected to be used for building nuclear weapons, The Wall Street Journal reported late Friday.



US 'bunker-buster' not powerful enough against Iran: Report - The Times of India


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## LeGenD

Damn! Those JDAMS pack lot of punch.

I wonder what MOP can do.

@ Abii

Penetration is one thing. Shockwaves also do damage.

Here is example:







Also, same region can be subjected to repeated strikes until the objective is met.


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## Abii

USAHawk785 said:


> A 2,000 lb JDAM strike


you're a genius aren't you?

Your defense secretary says that the 30,000 pound MOP isn't capable of penetrating Iran's fortified facilities and you come up with this fire cracker?



> WASHINGTONPentagon war planners have concluded that their largest conventional bomb isn't yet capable of destroying Iran's most heavily fortified underground facilities, and are stepping up efforts to make it more powerful, according to U.S. officials briefed on the plan.


Pentagon Seeks Mightier Bomb vs. Iran - WSJ.com



LeGenD said:


> Damn! Those JDAMS pack lot of punch.
> 
> I wonder what MOP can do.


According to the Pentagon, nothing. 



> WASHINGTONPentagon war planners have concluded that their largest conventional bomb isn't yet capable of destroying Iran's most heavily fortified underground facilities, and are stepping up efforts to make it more powerful, according to U.S. officials briefed on the plan.



Pentagon Seeks Mightier Bomb vs. Iran - WSJ.com


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## LeGenD

Abii said:


> According to the Pentagon, nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> Pentagon Seeks Mightier Bomb vs. Iran - WSJ.com


I respect your optimism.

However, Pentagon has history of conducting _deception_; psyops and actual military facts go side-by-side. Make the opponent guessing.


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## Skull and Bones

Abii said:


> shows how much you know
> 
> parchin isn't even a nuclear site! It's a military site that inspectors are interested in. Most of the centrifuges in Isfahan have now been transferred to Fordo, which cannot be penetrated by anything currently available on earth, bar nukes (more on this later). Arak is an experimental heavy water reactor. Bushehr and Natanz cannot be touched because they're live (radiation over the entire ME and the subcontinent blah blah).
> 
> Iran already has enough uranium for 4-6 nukes.* Iran is also enriching to 20% at Fordo* and we all know that it's much easier to go from 20 to 90+ than it's to go from 3.5 to 20.
> 
> Here's info regarding Fordo:
> 
> 
> 
> Bunker-busting: Smart concrete | The Economist
> 
> 
> 
> US 'bunker-buster' not powerful enough against Iran: Report - The Times of India



A firecracker has more energy yield than 20% enriched Uranium.


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## USAHawk785

A 2,000 lb JDAM strike will be more than capable of neutralizing their above ground facilities. An overwhelming majority of Iran's nuclear facilities are above ground eg, arak, ardekan, bushehr nuclear power plant, darkhovin nuclear power plant, fordow enrichment plant, isfahan research facility, natanz enrichment power plant, parachi etc. 

All of these would be cauterized in a tactical surgical strike. 

This , of course, does not take into consideration additional damage that would be incurred when the Israeli Air Force is unleashed.


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## Abii

LeGenD said:


> Damn! Those JDAMS pack lot of punch.
> 
> I wonder what MOP can do.
> 
> @ Abii
> 
> Penetration is one thing. Shockwaves also do damage.
> 
> Here is example:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Also, same region can be subjected to repeated strikes until the objective is met.*



dude, I've spent many hours reading about all this stuff. I know about it all, shockways etc...
Natanz was vulnerable to shockwaves, but not Fordo. Fordo is way too deep and the concrete is smart concrete (scroll up and read The Economist article about smart concrete). 

Another Economist article I read talked about repeated hits on the same spot. They observed that almost every single available MOP has to be hit on the same spot and they would have to spend every MOP on Fordo. All that would buy them a year and the facility would go back online. 

I cancelled my subscription to The Economist, but if you get a chance, it was on the front page of the IRan section last week (on their site).


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## LeGenD

USAHawk785 said:


> A 2,000 lb JDAM strike will be more than capable of neutralizing their above ground facilities. An overwhelming majority of Iran's nuclear facilities are above ground eg, arak, ardekan, bushehr nuclear power plant, darkhovin nuclear power plant, fordow enrichment plant, isfahan research facility, natanz enrichment power plant, parachi etc.
> 
> All of these would be cauterized in a tactical surgical strike.
> 
> This , of course, does not take into consideration additional damage that would be incurred when the Israeli Air Force is unleashed.


What US typically discloses in the press regarding sensitive matters is very limited in details.



Abii said:


> dude, I've spent many hours reading about all this stuff. I know about it all, shockways etc...
> Natanz was vulnerable to shockwaves, but not Fordo. Fordo is way too deep and the concrete is smart concrete (scroll up and read The Economist article about smart concrete).
> 
> Another Economist article I read talked about repeated hits on the same spot. They observed that almost every single available MOP has to be hit on the same spot and they would have to spend every MOP on Fordo. All that would buy them a year and the facility would go back online.
> 
> I cancelled my subscription to The Economist, but if you get a chance, it was on the front page of the IRan section last week (on their site).


Here are some hints for you:

HINT 1: _&#8220;It has great capability now and we are continuing to make it better. It is part of our arsenal and it will be a potential if we need it in that kind of scenario,&#8221; said Lt. Gen. Carlisle at a US defense conference on Thursday._

HINT 2: _The weapon, known as &#8220;the massive ordnance penetrator&#8221;, is capable of smashing through 65 meters of reinforced concrete before detonating its target._ 

Do not assume that they are telling you guys everything and that too in magazines.


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## Abii

USAHawk785 said:


> A 2,000 lb JDAM strike will be more than capable of neutralizing their above ground facilities. An overwhelming majority of Iran's nuclear facilities are above ground eg, arak, ardekan, bushehr nuclear power plant, darkhovin nuclear power plant, fordow enrichment plant, isfahan research facility, natanz enrichment power plant, parachi etc.
> 
> All of these would be cauterized in a tactical surgical strike.
> 
> This , of course, does not take into consideration additional damage that would be incurred when the Israeli Air Force is unleashed.


Do you even know what your govt is trying to destroy? God i'm discussing this with a complete noob. 

1) Bushehr is a light water reactor that is of no value to anybody. 

2) Bushehr is currently live and since not a single live reactor in history has been targetted, we can safely assume that this won't be either. Reason: a massive radioactive cloud that will cover the Persian Gulf Arab nations. 

3) Natanz is underground and increasingly less valuable as the centrifuges are being transferred to Fordo. 

4) Ardekan is a god damn yellow cake production plant so woopdeddooo. The bombs are more valuable. 

5) The experimental reactors are again, nothing anybody's losing sleep over.

6) The only facility that matters is Fordo and even 30K MOPs are useless against it. 

And one more time noob, Parchin is a military site that IAEA inspectors are interested in. It's not even a nuclear site.



LeGenD said:


> I respect your optimism.
> 
> However, Pentagon has history of conducting _deception_; psyops and actual military facts go side-by-side. Make the opponent guessing.



Iran doesn't have to guess. A country that produces concrete with nano particles, claimed to be the strongest on the planet by American and European analysts, doesn't have to guess or have its fingers crossed. 



> Apparently our own defense secretary, Leon Panetta, is worried that American bunker-busters may not be able to penetrate Irans deepest bunkers, *especially considering Irans smart ultra-high performance concrete. The Economist explains how Iranian concrete mixers dope their material with quartz powder and special fibers, which allow the concrete to withstand higher pressure and remain rigid even in shaky conditions*.


Could Iran's Ultra-Tough Concrete Withstand Bunker-Busting Bombs? | Popular Science

Bunker-busting: Smart concrete | The Economist


----------



## BLACKEAGLE

F-22 has 0.001 RCS m2, which means you see it with your bare eyes before it appears on radar. The only feasible detection system capable of detecting it from a relatively considerable range (60km) is OLS:


----------



## LeGenD

Abii said:


> Iran doesn't have to guess.


It has to. Otherwise, it will be repeating the mistakes of Saddam.



Abii said:


> A country that produces concrete with nano particles, claimed to be the strongest on the planet by American and European analysts, doesn't have to guess or have its fingers crossed.
> 
> 
> Could Iran's Ultra-Tough Concrete Withstand Bunker-Busting Bombs? | Popular Science
> 
> Bunker-busting: Smart concrete | The Economist


You need to recheck your own sources;

_Deep bunkers can be tackled in other ways. The DTRA has looked at what is known in the jargon as functional defeat, in other words bombing their entrances shut or destroying their electrical systems with electromagnetic pulses. They are also working on active penetrators&#8212;bombs which can tunnel through hundreds of metres of earth, rock and concrete. Development work is also under way on esoteric devices such as robot snakes, carrying warheads, which can infiltrate via air ducts and cable runs._

This is what I have been talking about for several months here.

Also, much of the information regarding MOP is *classified.* You cannot expect such details to be revealed in magazines and press. I have already hinted upon this:



LeGenD said:


> HINT 1: _&#8220;It has great capability now and we are continuing to make it better. It is part of our arsenal and it will be a potential if we need it in that kind of scenario,&#8221; said Lt. Gen. Carlisle at a US defense conference on Thursday._
> 
> HINT 2: _The weapon, known as &#8220;the massive ordnance penetrator&#8221;, is capable of smashing through 65 meters of reinforced concrete before detonating its target._


----------



## Bilal587

USAHawk785 said:


> The JDAM is a guidance kit that converts existing unguided gravity bombs, or "dumb bombs", into all-weather "smart" munitions. JDAM equipped bombs are guided to their target by an integrated inertial guidance system coupled with a Global Positioning System (GPS) receiver for enhanced accuracy, giving them a published range of up to 15 nautical miles



This guy is very excited abt war. 

Man u r just zionist's slaves nt more than tht, think how u americans destroyed Iraq and Afghanistan incase if it happens with ur nation im sure ur nt tht excited and buried long time ago in some where in the earth.


----------



## Abii

LeGenD said:


> What US typically discloses in the press regarding sensitive matters is very limited in details.
> 
> 
> Here are some hints for you:
> 
> HINT 1: _&#8220;It has great capability now and we are continuing to make it better. It is part of our arsenal and it will be a potential if we need it in that kind of scenario,&#8221; said Lt. Gen. Carlisle at a US defense conference on Thursday._
> 
> HINT 2: _The weapon, known as &#8220;the massive ordnance penetrator&#8221;, is capable of smashing through 65 meters of reinforced concrete before detonating its target._
> 
> Do not assume that they are telling you guys everything and that too in magazines.



Again, I've spent time on this, you haven't and you're refusing to take a time out to educate yourself. 

"reinforced concrete" is regular concrete with metal bars running through it. A mop can go through 60 meters and more of that with ease. 

But it can only go *8 meters* into concrete that is just twice as strong.

UHPC concrete is many times stronger than regular reinforced concrete so even the 8 meters figure is very unlikely. 

FORDO is under 10 meters of UHPC concrete and inside of a mountain. There are also 20 MOPS to go around in total for all of Iran. You do the math.


----------



## Abii

LeGenD said:


> It has to. Otherwise, it will be repeating the mistakes of Saddam.
> 
> 
> You need to recheck your own sources;
> 
> _Deep bunkers can be tackled in other ways. The DTRA has looked at what is known in the jargon as functional defeat, in other words bombing their entrances shut or destroying their electrical systems with electromagnetic pulses. They are also working on active penetrators&#8212;bombs which can tunnel through hundreds of metres of earth, rock and concrete. Development work is also under way on esoteric devices such as robot snakes, carrying warheads, which can infiltrate via air ducts and cable runs._
> 
> This is what I have been talking about for several months here.
> 
> Also, much of the information regarding MOP is *classified.* You cannot expect such details to be revealed in magazines and press. I have already hinted upon this:



"bombing their entrances shut or destroying their electrical systems with electromagnetic pulses" 

this is laughable. I didn't think people took this stuff srsly.


----------



## LeGenD

Abii said:


> Again, I've spent time on this, you haven't and you're refusing to take a time out to educate yourself.


My point is that much of the information regarding MOP is _classified_ and MOP is being _improved_ with passage of time. 

Also, it is extremely stupid to assume that MOP is the only solution devised by US for Iranian targets. We do not know that what else has been developed and is not being revealed.

An _insider_ hint: US have used some extremely powerful 'unknown' bombs in Iraq in 1991 to destroy some important Iraqi underground facilities. Very little in this regard has been disclosed in the press. People have been left guessing.



Abii said:


> "reinforced concrete" is regular concrete with metal bars running through it. A mop can go through 60 meters and more of that with ease.


This is your concept of reinforced concrete?

I wonder what Lt. Gen. Carlisle assumes about reinforced concrete. Notice the uncertainty?

_It is therefore anyones guess (at least, anyone without access to classified information) how the MOP might perform against one of Irans ultra-strong concretes._



Abii said:


> But it can only go *8 meters* into concrete that is just twice as strong.
> 
> UHPC concrete is many times stronger than regular reinforced concrete so even the 8 meters figure is very unlikely.


And we have this hint:

_It has great capability now and we are continuing to make it better. It is part of our arsenal and it will be a potential if we need it in that kind of scenario, said Lt. Gen. Carlisle at a US defense conference on Thursday._



Abii said:


> FORDO is under 10 meters of UHPC concrete and inside of a mountain.


Here is an explanation of how such targets are approached;

1. Earth Penetrating Radar systems are used to scan the mountains for locating the entrances of underground facilities.

2. Once an entrance is identified. Very powerful _guided_ bombs are send right in to them. 

US have tested this approach in Tora Bora region in Afghanistan.

Get the picture?



Abii said:


> There are also 20 MOPS to go around in total for all of Iran. You do the math.


And stockpiles of many other undisclosed and unknown bombs of similar nature. Now you do the math. 



Abii said:


> "bombing their entrances shut or destroying their electrical systems with electromagnetic pulses"
> 
> this is laughable. I didn't think people took this stuff srsly.


This is laughable for you. However, nothing is laughable in the field of science and technology.


----------



## gambit

Birbal said:


> F-22 can't do **** against ground targets.


What make you think we will use only the F-22? 



Birbal said:


> It's only useful against Iranian F-14s and Mig-29s.


Only 'useful'? Try scaring the feces out of the pilots and into self grounding the Iranian Air Force.


----------



## RazPaK

Americans are hell bent on destroying the world.

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## gambit

BLACKEAGLE said:


> F-22 has 0.001 RCS m2, which means you see it with your bare eyes before it appears on radar. The only feasible detection system capable of detecting it from a relatively considerable range (60km) is OLS:


Not if the F-22 is from the rear quadrant.



RazPaK said:


> Americans are hell bent on destroying the world.


Nonsense. If that is true, we would have done it when the Soviets collapsed.


----------



## RazPaK

gambit said:


> Not if the F-22 is from the rear quadrant.
> 
> 
> Nonsense. If that is true, we would have done it when the Soviets collapsed.




Your words hold no weight, defector.


----------



## gambit

Safriz said:


> iran may not have means to shoot down the raptors but they have means of attacking and destroying the runways raptors will use...


You wish. But even if you wish reaaaaallly hard, it would still not come true.



RazPaK said:


> Your words hold no weight, defector.


A lot more than yours.



Don Jaguar said:


> This war will be suicidal mistake of US.


Baghdad Bob...!!! Is that you...???


----------



## illusion8

One deployment by the USA and people are sweating, all the bravado's run out I guess, that's power projection


----------



## LeGenD

gambit said:


> Nonsense. If that is true, we would have done it when the Soviets collapsed.


Problem is that the appetite of US for testing new weapons and concepts in battlefield is insatiable. Wars serve as the best testing grounds for these purposes. 

US have fought highest number of wars then any country in comparison. Sounds like war-centric economy to me.



RazPaK said:


> Your words hold no weight, defector.


----------



## westtowel

1 F 22 = Iran Air Force.


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## zzzz

Would be funny if Iran will capture F-22 next

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## Safriz

The All mighty ... beast of kandhar ....comes to mind 
now its the fried chicken of tehran

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## gambit

LeGenD said:


> Problem is that the appetite of US for testing new weapons and concepts in battlefield is insatiable. Wars serve as the best testing grounds.


Where else can anyone best test their weapons? The Soviets had the Chinese did it for theirs.



LeGenD said:


> US have fought highest number of wars then any country in comparison. Sounds like war-centric economy to me.


Utter nonsense. No economy is military centric, at least not for the capitalist West. Our economy is based upon manufacturing, inventions, innovations, service, all the things alien to most.


----------



## LeGenD

zzzz said:


> Would be funny if Iran will capture F-22 next


Unrealistic assumption.

When an F15 was downed in Libya, US forces approached the scene to rescue the pilots and exterminate its wreakage. Their are many more similar examples.

Drone losses are not so important to US.



gambit said:


> Utter nonsense. No economy is military centric, at least not for the capitalist West. Our economy is based upon manufacturing, inventions, innovations, service, all the things alien to most.


Hint: US military industry


----------



## gambit

LeGenD said:


> Hint: US military industry


Hint: Get a real hint. Less than half of Boeing's revenue are from the DoD. For example.


----------



## Safriz

hint: enforcing dollar as an international currency for mutual trade.


----------



## Haseebullah

Abii said:


> shows how much you know
> 
> parchin isn't even a nuclear site! It's a military site that inspectors are interested in. Most of the centrifuges in Isfahan have now been transferred to Fordo, which cannot be penetrated by anything currently available on earth, bar nukes (more on this later). Arak is an experimental heavy water reactor. Bushehr and Natanz cannot be touched because they're live (radiation over the entire ME and the subcontinent blah blah).
> 
> Iran already has enough uranium for 4-6 nukes. Iran is also enriching to 20% at Fordo and *we all know that it's much easier to go from 20 to 90+ than it's to go from 3.5 to 20.*
> 
> Here's info regarding Fordo:
> 
> 
> 
> Bunker-busting: Smart concrete | The Economist
> 
> 
> 
> US 'bunker-buster' not powerful enough against Iran: Report - The Times of India


 


Skull and Bones said:


> A firecracker has more energy yield than 20% enriched Uranium.


Too excited to read the next part.


----------



## LeGenD

gambit said:


> Hint: Get a real hint. Less than half of Boeing's revenue are from the DoD. For example.


Are you sure that Boeing is the only company?


----------



## gambit

LeGenD said:


> Are you sure that Boeing is the only company?


Are you the others conform to your flawed understanding of economics?


----------



## Safriz

boeing f18?........


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## Luftwaffe

Hi, The question is not how much destruction US would bring to Iran, The question is how much destruction Iran would unleash upon israel. The question is not how something hits Iran from somewhere but the question is at the first dawn of assault barrages of missiles would rain down upon israel how much fear and destruction would it cause. Have you insane people tried to think logically with a bit of sanity in yourselves how much damage would israel take when all bets off, have you thought of a nation going back to stone age IF it uses chemical weapons on israel in such a massive way that the population reduces to 50% of the total population, iran does not poss A Bomb but they do have chemical biological weapons, Think comrades insanity must not prevail. Rest of american idol contestants should go flush out in your yards.

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## BLACKEAGLE

gambit said:


> Not if the F-22 is from the rear quadrant.
> 
> 
> Nonsense. If that is true, we would have done it when the Soviets collapsed.


 
OLS range varies from country to another but I think the one on Eurofighter is the best one along with Russian SU-35. It's the only way to detect F-22. Iran doesn't have such techno. F-22 RCS will increase dramatically when it's hidden silos open but it will be detected and not tracked. F-22 stealth tech is such a miracle.


----------



## LeGenD

gambit said:


> Are you the others conform to your flawed understanding of economics?


No. My grasp of economics is decent, if not on expert level.

I have participated in several economic discussions in this forum. Some have appreciated my efforts.

Military industry of US is an important source for revenue generation for the country but not the only one. US is the largest exporter of military products in the world. US weapons are famous for their performance; thanks to demonstrations in many wars worldwide. With each passing year, US arms sales are breaking previous records. Add to this the voilent history of US in its external affairs and the number of US military bases worldwide (aggressive military and political posture). 

Here is a very interesting read: http://money.cnn.com/2011/02/10/news/international/america_exports_weapons_full.fortune/index.htm

_Unlike most other businesses, arms makers play a central role in U.S. foreign policy, perhaps now more than ever._

Therefore, the speculations about US being a war-centric economy or nation.


----------



## gambit

LeGenD said:


> No. My grasp of economics is decent, if not on expert level.
> 
> I have engaged in several detailed economic discussions in this forum. Some have appreciated my efforts.
> 
> Military industry of US is an important source for revenue generation for the country but not the only one. US is the largest exporter of military products in the world. US weapons are famous for their performance; thanks to demonstrations in many wars worldwide. With each passing year, US arms sales are breaking previous records. Add to this the voilent history of US in external affairs and the number of US military bases worldwide (aggressive military posture). Therefore, the speculations about US being a war-centric economy or nation.
> 
> Here is a very interesting read: America's hottest export: Arms - Feb. 11, 2011


So is it anywhere compared to GDP like the Soviets'?


----------



## LeGenD

gambit said:


> So is it anywhere compared to GDP like the Soviets'?


My friend, Soviets are history now. However, US war-centric posture remains.


----------



## gambit

LeGenD said:


> My friend, Soviets are history now. However, US war-centric posture remains.


OK, so things like the Internet and how it contribute to the economy means nothing. Got it...


----------



## Safriz

back to the topic...
why would USA bring f22 near iran?


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## Mosamania

Safriz said:


> back to the topic...
> why would USA bring f22 near iran?



To take care of the menace once and for all so we can finally have peace and prosperity in the region. And Welcome our American allies I have officially today given up on all those people who call "Ummah" and "Arab brotherhood" and stuff like that. Yes they can all go to hell for all I care. Me Me and only Me that matters and that is the end of that.


----------



## LeGenD

gambit said:


> OK, so things like the Internet and how it contribute to the economy means nothing. Got it...


Of course, US is a resourceful country with many other contributions and means of revenue generation. However, US war-centric posture is a worrisome matter for other states.


----------



## UKBengali

Iranian cruise and ballistic missiles would pretty much destroy the base that the F-22s are based in.


----------



## LeGenD

UKBengali said:


> Iranian cruise and ballistic missiles would pretty much destroy the base that the F-22s are based in.


Hint: US ABM systems

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## Mosamania

UKBengali said:


> Iranian cruise and ballistic missiles would pretty much destroy the base that the F-22s are based in.



Yes it will be a walk in the park for Iran and you are so smart and all those Generals and Advisers are stupid. Iranians are the most powerful thing in ever in all the world and stuff and they are cool and $hit each Iranian solider is carrying a missile on his back with the propellant in attached to his a$$. Isn't that right??

Really some people are just plain down comedic.



LeGenD said:


> Hint: US ABM systems



Thank you. But you are going to have to be more direct than that these people suffer from chronic stupidism otherwise known as Iraniosis.

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## UKBengali

LeGenD said:


> Hint: US ABM systems



Hint: ABMs are useless against cruise missiles and it is debatable how effective they would be against dozens of different types of ballistic missiles that Iran can fire simultaneously at the F-22 base.


----------



## Mosamania

UKBengali said:


> Hint: ABMs are useless against cruise missiles and it is debatable how effective they would be against dozens of different types of ballistic missiles that Iran can fire simultaneously at the F-22 base.



As I said each Iranian soldier apparently is carrying around a missile on his back and all those Western and GCC generals are extremely stupid and only you and Iranians are smart and haven't thought of that. 

Or they know that Iran's missiles are just a load of crab which is I am more inclined to believe is the truth.

I say it again Welcome our American allies my home is yours. From here on out I will stop looking at US and its weapons as a "possible future threat" and rather as friendly forces 

You have shown you are true allies instead of those Ummahians and Arabismians. What was I thinking believing there is any hope coming out of these people. Because at the end of the day you are on your own. And you only have to look out for Number 1.


----------



## jamesbaldwin

I'm sorry, I'm normally pro-US but I am really getting sick of this war-mongering and hypocrasy. It is so blatant what the US is trying to do, why don't they put this much effort into solving the humanitarian crisis in Syria? Why don't they sort out NK and Pakistan with terrible nuclear prolification records? Why do they create illogical wars all over the place instead of going where they should be going. Difference between Iran and NK? One has nukes(NK) but the other has OIL!! Difference between Pakistan and Iran one has nukes and is an actual exporter of terrorism and has a direct hand in killing US soldiers (Pakistan) the other has OIL (Iran). If it's about the oil just say so but don't come up with all the moral justifications that are flawed and only damage the US image further.


I mean Pakistan and NK have nukes TODAY unlike Iran that is 10-15 years away from this (at best) yet IRAN is the biggest threat to the world?!! And then such big noise is made when Iran makes "threatening" postures to West, well if your constantly saying Iran is a threat and you may need to take action against them of course they are going to respond and show they won't invite you into their nation without a fight. US needs to get a grip and the US public need to stop buying whatever crap the Politicansd and ingorant media try to force down their necks.


But you know what they say- "nothing helps an ailing economy quite like a good old war!!"


----------



## LeGenD

UKBengali said:


> Hint: ABMs are useless against cruise missiles and it is debatable how effective they would be against dozens of different types of ballistic missiles that Iran can fire simultaneously at the F-22 base.


Are you sure?

Lockheed Martin · Lockheed Martin PAC-3 Missile Successfully Intercepts Cruise Missile Target During Integrated Flight Test

And PAC-3 has 16 interceptors in single launcher.


----------



## RazPaK

jamesbaldwin said:


> I'm sorry, I'm normally pro-US but I am really getting sick of this war-mongering and hypocrasy. It is so blatant what the US is trying to do, why don't they put this much effort into solving the humanitarian crisis in Syria? Why don't they sort out NK and Pakistan with terrible nuclear prolification records? Why do they create illogical wars all over the place instead of going where they should be going. Difference between Iran and NK? One has nukes(NK) but the other has OIL!! Difference between Pakistan and Iran one has nukes and is an actual exporter of terrorism and has a direct hand in killing US soldiers (Pakistan) the other has OIL (Iran). If it's about the oil just say so but don't come up with all the moral justifications that are flawed and only damage the US image further.




Pakistan?


Stop your bs right there buddy.


First they should sort out Israel, if you want to talk proliferation records.


----------



## Mosamania

LeGenD said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Lockheed Martin · Lockheed Martin PAC-3 Missile Successfully Intercepts Cruise Missile Target During Integrated Flight Test
> 
> And PAC-3 has 16 interceptors in single launcher.



You don't understand man Iranians have thousands upon thousands of Missiles. Each Iranian solider crabs a missile per day. That's how cool they are man.

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## UKBengali

LeGenD said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Lockheed Martin · Lockheed Martin PAC-3 Missile Successfully Intercepts Cruise Missile Target During Integrated Flight Test
> 
> And PAC-3 has 16 interceptors in single launcher.



If F-22s were used against Iran literally hundreds of Iranian cruise missiles and ballistic missiles would target its base at once. I would not really be want to be anywhere near that base at the time. 

A simulated test against a single target under controlled conditions proves very little.


----------



## gambit

A whole lot of 'Baghdad Bobs' bloviating their ignorance.


----------



## anonymus

UKBengali said:


> Hint: ABMs are useless against cruise missiles and it is debatable how effective they would be against dozens of different types of ballistic missiles that Iran can fire simultaneously at the F-22 base.



For record even tunguska could shoot Cruise missiles.Cruise missiles are easier to be shot compared to ballistic missiles.


----------



## LeGenD

UKBengali said:


> If F-22s were used against Iran literally hundreds of Iranian cruise missiles and ballistic missiles would target its base at once. I would not really be want to be anywhere near that base at the time.
> 
> A simulated test against a single target under controlled conditions proves very little.


Simulated test? Any evidence?

PAC-3 is a battle-proven system with 100% success rate in Iraq. And several launchers can be deployed in a region to protect it. Do the math now.


----------



## anonymus

UKBengali said:


> If F-22s were used against Iran literally hundreds of Iranian cruise missiles and ballistic missiles would target its base at once. I would not really be want to be anywhere near that base at the time.
> 
> A simulated test against a single target under controlled conditions proves very little.



How come Iran would be able to launch hundreds of missiles when they will not be able to see F-22 until their bases have been hit.

Do you want Iran to commit suicide????


----------



## UKBengali

anonymus said:


> How come Iran would be able to launch hundreds of missiles when they will not be able to see F-22 until their bases have been hit.
> 
> Do you want Iran to commit suicide????




That is when they will want to destroy the base these F-22s have been launched from.

Commit suicide? It is a proportionate response to US agression.


----------



## zzzz

anonymus said:


> For record even tunguska could shoot Cruise missiles.Cruise missiles are easier to be shot compared to ballistic missiles.



Actually Tunguska is designed to shoot down cruise missles. And contrary to ballistic cruise missles dont fly on predetermined ballistic trajectory.


----------



## anonymus

UKBengali said:


> That is when they will want to destroy the base these F-22s have been launched from.
> 
> Commit suicide? It is a proportionate response to US agression.


 
Either you are a retard or a child?

Do you even know the operational difficulties of simultaneous missile launch that too at a short notice?


----------



## jamesbaldwin

RazPaK said:


> Pakistan?
> 
> 
> Stop your bs right there buddy.
> 
> 
> First they should sort out Israel, if you want to talk proliferation records.



Ever heard :

Abdul Qadeer Khan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This guy pretty much gave the NKs and Iranians nuclear tech to be able to devlop nuke weapons. The world knows this and that is why Pakistan is looked down upon so much in the nuclear community that is why Pakistan can't even dream of getting the same sort of NSG waiver as India- the two nuke programs could not be more stark. Ask any security expert where the biggest threat to global seucirty in form of NBC terrorism.threat comes from and they will all (on the whole) point to Pakistan in a heartbeat. These are FACTS.



And Israel? Who have they exported nuke tech to? 


Do some research. Btw I am studying Global Security and terrorism studies at St Andrews university in Scotland- I know what I am talking about. I've been to many lectures and talks on global security threats and the answer to the biggest threat is pretty unanimous- PAKISTAN.

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## UKBengali

anonymus said:


> Either you are a retard or a child?
> 
> Do you even know the operational difficulties of simultaneous missile launch that too at a short notice?




That may actually apply to yourself.

Please enlighten me on the "operational difficulties"?


----------



## anonymus

zzzz said:


> Actually Tunguska is designed to shoot down cruise missles. And contrary to ballistic cruise missles dont fly on predetermined ballistic trajectory.



true but cruise missiles are lot slower than ballistic missiles thus providing much more reaction time for countermeasures.

If a ballistic missile could not be intercepted,it is a finality that whatever defender do it would not be intercepted but if a cruise missile is detected,it could be intercepted by even anti air artillery.



UKBengali said:


> That may actually apply to yourself.
> 
> Please enlighten me on the "operational difficulties"?



What part of operational difficulty of arming,fuelling and simultaneously launching when your defences are being pounded by aircrafts which are practically invisible on radar did you not understand?


----------



## UKBengali

[QUOTE

What part of operational difficulty of arming,fuelling and simultaneously launching when your defences are being pounded by aircrafts which are practically invisible on radar did you not understand?[/QUOTE]

Troll. Ignored.


----------



## S.U.R.B.

So the US presidential elections are nearing. November is not too far.

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## Hack-Hook

lightoftruth said:


> bad news for iran (nuclear sites).


 
not much of bad news as previously stated F22 can't carry any weapon that is able to scratch the paint of Iran main nuclear sites , for that USA must bring b-52 , B-1 Lancer or B-2


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## Safriz

anonymus said:


> Either you are a retard or a child?
> 
> Do you even know the operational difficulties of simultaneous missile launch that too at a short notice?


 
short notice?
iran is being threatened for how long now?
they must be ready long ago.


----------



## Tija

Damn Again petrol price will rise 

Our 10% cheap petrol gone

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## anon45

Safriz said:


> back to the topic...
> why would USA bring f22 near iran?


 
psy ops, put pressure on Iran, perhaps the White House thinks an Israeli attack on Iran is imminent, in that case more capability in the region never hurts. The media coverage tells me that it isn't for any planned attack though, so probably not.


----------



## Hack-Hook

LeGenD said:


> Simulated test? Any evidence?
> 
> PAC-3 is a battle-proven system with 100% success rate in Iraq. And several launchers can be deployed in a region to protect it. Do the math now.


 
its all the battle history of PAC-3


> Patriot was deployed to Iraq a second time in 2003, this time to provide air and missile defence for the forces conducting Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF). Patriot PAC-3, GEM, and GEM+ missiles both had a very high success rate intercepting Al Samoud-2 and Ababil-100 tactical ballistic missiles.[12] However, no longer-range ballistic missiles were fired during that conflict. The systems were stationed in Kuwait and successfully destroyed a number of hostile surface-to-surface missiles using the new PAC-3 and guidance enhanced missiles. Patriot missile batteries were involved in three friendly fire incidents, resulting in the downing of a Royal Air Force Tornado and the death of both crew members on 23 March 2003. On 24 March 2003, a USAF F-16CJ Fighting Falcon fired a HARM at a Patriot Missile Battery after being locked on. No one was injured but the Patriot Missile Battery was damaged.[28] On 2 April 2003, 2 PAC-3 missiles shot down a USN F/A-18 Hornet killing US Navy Lieutenant Nathan D. White of VFA-195, Carrier Air Wing Five.


by the way that article fail to mention this one


> A similar development, the Al-Fahd or Ababil-100, a solid propellant version of the Al-Samoud,[5] was also used by the Iraqi army during the invasion. The Headquarters of the 2nd Brigade, US 3rd Infantry Division, were struck by a missile of this kind on April 7, while the Brigade's main force was conducting an incursion 15 km north, well inside Baghdad. Three soldiers and two foreign reporters were killed in the blast. Another 14 soldiers were injured, and 22 vehicles destroyed or seriously damaged, most of them Humvees.


and in first Persian war there is reports (based on post war evaluation of videos taken at the time in Israel) that shows in 1991 no target destroyed by the missile and all the Al-Hossein missiles destruction that Attributed to ABM actually were structural failure of those missiles .


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## LeGenD

JEskandari said:


> its all the battle history of PAC-3


No matter what it is, PAC-3 has proven itself in combat situations and is not hype.



JEskandari said:


> and in first Persian war there is reports (based on post war evaluation of videos taken at the time in Israel) that shows in 1991 no target destroyed by the missile and all the Al-Hossein missiles destruction that Attributed to ABM actually were structural failure of those missiles .


PAC 1, used in 1991, was a precursor to ABM capability. 

PAC-3 is cutting-edge technology in comparison.

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## lightoftruth

JEskandari said:


> not much of bad news as previously stated F22 can't carry any weapon that is able to scratch the paint of Iran main nuclear sites , for that USA must bring b-52 , B-1 Lancer or B-2


 i hope their is no war ,but see this 

F-22 Raptor In Action. Weapons Hot!! - YouTube thats a beast out their  it do carry enough bombs to damage alot


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## Thomas

UKBengali said:


> Hint: ABMs are useless against cruise missiles and it is debatable how effective they would be against dozens of different types of ballistic missiles that Iran can fire simultaneously at the F-22 base.




Cruise missiles are very vulnerable to PAC 3, ESSM, SM6. 

Lockheed Martin&#39;s PAC-3 Missile Successfully Intercepts Cruise Missile Target During Integrated Flight Test - MarketWatch


This deployment does not mean war is imminent. But there has been a quiet increase over the months of equipment prepositioning, and force deployment. War will happen eventually if Iran doesn't become completely transparent on its nuclear intentions. This means opening ALL SITES to unfettered IAEA inspections. If it's nuclear ambitions are peaceful then it has nothing to worry about. The F-22's are most likely a shot across the bow of the Iranians to get thier attention ahead of talks due to take place soon. 

If the Iranians are not carefull they will make the same mistake Saddam did. He was deliberatly never completely open about his WMD and reaped the results.


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## Safriz

F-22 raptor isnt combat proven yet.
bombing donkeys and mules in afghanistan or some kalashinkov weilding youths in Iraq proves nothing.

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## SMC

These are probably deployed in some middle eastern country.. I hope someone rigs these planes to blow up upon take off.

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## Mercenary

Guys Relax, the F-22 are on a standard base orientation. 

The majority of F-22 Raptors are stationed in Hawaii and Guam. They are just completing their regularly scheduled global orientation so all ground crews at various US bases around the world can work with these planes and know how to service them should hostilities break out, and for the F-22 Pilots, knowing how to operate in different terrains and environments. Its standard practice.

After UAE, these F-22 will probably fly to Europe and from there back to USA and from there back to Pacific.

Its like US Carrier battle groups who regularly go to different ports.


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## Adir-M

F-22 is the best air superiority fighter jet which usa possess. F22 tactics is "first look first kill" within an hour USAF will destroy all air threat from iran that include air defenses such as s-200 ,buk, hawk missiles redars runways and aircraft which IRAF possess. After the first waves of attack USA will use destroyers with cruise missiles and bomers with bunker buster bombs.


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## Safriz

nothing about raptor has ever been proved in combat.

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## Adir-M

> persians already have around 2 dozen dirty bombs in south of lebanon....do u want another 6 million jews dead?



Seriously, Are you stupid or something?


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## DV RULES

USAHawk785 said:


> There will be no 3rd world war, Iran has been sanctioned by the United Nations to cease nuclear procurement activities, still they have relinquished. If it will not heed international demands, *then, it must be contained, if it is necessitated for regional stability.
> *
> These F-22s would be capable in committing surgical strikes on any known nuclear sites as well as in effectively neutralizing all known Iranian surface to air systems.



This is best example of big BS. Heck that only US responsible for regional stability and all other NPT signatories have damn care about Iran but for formalities came to UN and signed some papers.

Dude, try to think before commenting.

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## Adir-M

> i am not stupid son....they are already enriching uranium.....what makes u think that they wont tie 1kg of enriched uranium with every katyusha rocket they fire into israel from southern lebanon?



First of all i am not your son.

They enrich uranium to 20%. And even if they possess nucler bomb katyusha cant cary nuclear warhead it is not accurate wepon.
Not to mention nucler attack on israel will hurt lebanone
so stop asking *3 years old* questions....


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## Desert Fox

Adir-M said:


> F-22 is the best air superiority fighter jet which usa possess. F22 tactics is "first look first kill" within an hour USAF will destroy all air threat from iran that include air defenses such as s-200 ,buk, hawk missiles redars runways and aircraft which IRAF possess. After the first waves of attack USA will use destroyers with cruise missiles and bomers with bunker buster bombs.




I'm confused, the name of the aircraft is F-22 "Raptor" but the profile of that logo is a Falcon?

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## Amuroray

Adir-M said:


> F-22 is the best air superiority fighter jet which usa possess. F22 tactics is "first look first kill" within an hour USAF will destroy all air threat from iran that include air defenses such as s-200 ,buk, hawk missiles redars runways and aircraft which IRAF possess. After the first waves of attack USA will use destroyers with cruise missiles and bomers with bunker buster bombs.



Sad how happy you are.

The usa will do your job for you.You're pathetic.

The blood of usa soldiers will be on your peoples hands.

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## PteX

Amuroray said:


> Sad how happy you are.
> 
> The usa will do your job for you.You're pathetic.
> 
> The blood of usa soldiers will be on your peoples hands.


Iran threatens and has threatened the US a hundred times, they have already killed American citizens by their acts of terrorism through their proxies all around the world. Do yourself a favor and use that British education system.


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## PteX

how can she slap? said:


> why dont u attack iran first and ask america to join in later.....why do u want americans to attack iran first?.......what has american taxpayer done?....why do you want the american taxpayer and irani taxpayer to become enemies for israeli taxpayer?


It is the American administration that does everything possible to deter an attack on Iran, they prefer to let sanctions work.


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## Haseebullah

jamesbaldwin said:


> I'm sorry, I'm normally pro-US but I am really getting sick of this war-mongering and hypocrasy. It is so blatant what the US is trying to do, why don't they put this much effort into solving the humanitarian crisis in Syria? Why don't they sort out NK and Pakistan with terrible nuclear prolification records? Why do they create illogical wars all over the place instead of going where they should be going. Difference between Iran and NK? One has nukes(NK) but the other has OIL!! Difference between Pakistan and Iran one has nukes and is an actual exporter of terrorism and has a direct hand in killing US soldiers (Pakistan) the other has OIL (Iran). If it's about the oil just say so but don't come up with all the moral justifications that are flawed and only damage the US image further.
> 
> 
> I mean Pakistan and NK have nukes TODAY unlike Iran that is 10-15 years away from this (at best) yet IRAN is the biggest threat to the world?!! And then such big noise is made when Iran makes "threatening" postures to West, well if your constantly saying Iran is a threat and you may need to take action against them of course they are going to respond and show they won't invite you into their nation without a fight. US needs to get a grip and the US public need to stop buying whatever crap the Politicansd and ingorant media try to force down their necks.
> 
> 
> But you know what they say- "nothing helps an ailing economy quite like a good old war!!"


Damn their media is really working up some serious mojo on these adolescent minds.
Exporter of terrorism?Ask the Iraqis and Afghanis,who terrorizes them more the highly projected Al-Qaeda or the red neck soldiers sexually assaulting their women and brutally beating and pissing over corpses of men?You are invading their land and now you are trying to do the same with Pakistan and you don't expect them to retaliate?For me the intruder is the threat and I (the owner of the house) create terror in the intruders heart so yeah that's how i call myself a terrorist.
Nuclear proliferation my arse!We make whatever we want, so much for the Leaders of the *FREE* world!


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## Luftwaffe

You people do not understand, Iran has already made her mind, global coalition air forces does not and would not matter, the plan they would swiftly be implement upon first Raid would be target all US bases in the gulf-afghanistan and Pre to it a large scale ballistic-missile targeted at israel with chemical-biological agents. Pray Tell what plan does US-Coalition has to secure-safe-guard israel, how many missiles would be countered what is the probability and success rate with missiles coming in numbers spreaded over designated coordinates Areas of interest across israel and possibly gulf participating nations. 

Thomas, There were no WMDs in Iraq were there? where are they? so you attack a country based on a feeling that HE-SHE is hiding something from u s of a, obviously you are forgetting Iran is not ill equip unlike iraq and the most organized Armed Forces.

Have your say let me explain hezbollah would fiddle from there side with israel, syrians could possibly take a part, here iranians would use at their disposal all weapons out against israel, what objectives would US achieve when israel is at the receiving end with heavy casualties and infra structure damages, one would go back in stone age but it would take the other along with him. The small arms weapons are three timed the number in afghanistan urban warfare would cost US a complete bankruptcy and a long economic depression.

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## regular

Excellent news! So Alhamdolillah! we gonna get rid of the evil powerzof the world at last.......


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## Thomas

any chemical and biological attack on Isreal or the US and GCC would most likely have a nuclear response. However I doubt Iran will do that since thier allies in the region would be on the recieving end of those same bio/chem missiles.

Syria is to busy with it's own troubles right now. They are not about to divert forces away and give the free syrian army a chance to gain more ground. And Hezbollah saw what happened to thier homes and infrastructure the last time they started somthing. They could try terrorist type actions around the world. But that would turn other countries agianst them. Hezbollah as a whole would find it pretty difficult to mount an invasion of Israel. It takes a lot more then AK's and small Missiles to do that. 

Economicly I have been hearing the same doom and gloom for a long time on these boards and it simply has not happened so far has it. In fact the US economy is gaining steam despite the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the economic turmoil in Europe.

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## azbaroj

USAHawk785 said:


> The mullahs in Iran are pissing their pants as we speak.


It is American soldiers who pissing their pants for their life , they are going to die for Jews , "Mollas" are ready to die for their country . Check your panty , is it dry or wet ?

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## Johny D

Lighting_Fighter said:


> come on america yo're great start the 3rd world war?



yes time to clean up the bad blood...



Peaceful Civlian said:


> Why U.S.A need f22 against Iraqi F14s.....??



to call it d only battle proven FGFA..

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## haviZsultan

Iran has no aircraft that can match the range, speed and raw firepower of the F22. Yet their will to stand up to the US despite constant bullying and the fact that their forces do not even stand a chance against the United States is truly remarkable. 

Its just admirable how the Iranians stand up to bullying. America sucessfully managed to alienate the Iranian people with their policies and they eventually kicked the Americans with all their bases out of the country. It is very close to doing the same with Pakistan. We suffered from the Presler amendment after we faithfully served the americans against our own interests in the 1980's and being victimized all over again when USA is preparing to abandon us like in the past. We suffered $70 billion losses and 40,000 dead because we supported US post 9/11. Guess what we got?

Its time for Pakistan and Iran to sign an alliance. You want policy... thats policy. China can vetoes sanctions by US controlled UN. Master stroke and best policy for Pakistan currently. Threaten to provide nukes to Iran and demand compensation for damages caused in war on terror.

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## Thomas

azbaroj said:


> It is American soldiers who pissing their pants for their life , they are going to die for Jews , "Mollas" are ready to die for their country . Check your panty , is it dry or wet ?



The Mullahs are ready to die and most Iranians can't wait for them to die.


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## S.U.R.B.

Thomas said:


> The Mullahs are ready to die and *most Iranians* can't wait for them to die.


 

So what you are saying is that, you have your fingers right on the pulse of _"most Iranians"_?


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## H.A.W.K

T-50 PAK-FA ,"Enough sleep wake up and get dressed"..

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## Thomas

S.U.R.B. said:


> So what you are saying is that, you have your fingers right on the pulse of _"most Iranians"_?



I have had my fair share of contact with Iranians. Some that have been able to leave and those that still live there. I have not met one yet that doesn't hate the draconian oppression the mullahs and thier proxy the Basij inflict on them.


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## Mosamania

Out of curiosity why use the "Raptor"?? The Velociraptor scientifically is not the same dino shown in Jurassic Park. The Raptor is actually the same height as a chicken and also it is heavily feathered so there is a high chance that it is the Chicken's ancestor so to science geeks such as myself I find the name extremely funny.

I think if they used Petosaur it would have been much more appropriate for it.

Edit: Now that I have done more research on the subject I found out that the term "Raptor" is a general term for Daylight birds of prey and not the dinosaur..... But it would have been cool to name an Aircraft after a dinosaur and if anybody is gonna do it is the Americans.


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## BATMAN

Thomas said:


> I have had my fair share of contact with Iranians. Some that have been able to leave and those that still live there. I have not met one yet that doesn't hate the draconian oppression the mullahs and thier proxy the Basij inflict on them.


 I second that.. I have personally asked hundreds of Iranians about there political affiliations and failed to find a single person who voted for Ahmadi Nejad.
I have witnessed open defiance during election time, every shop, every car and every person was wearing green.
I was actually, surprised on this discovery.
Before, facing the reality i use to believe that Ahmedi Nejad is as much a favorite figure in Iran as it is in Pakistan.

BTW... mig-29 does not stand a chance against F-22 but Iran's retaliation would be target at Arab state.

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## razgriz19

Mosamania said:


> Out of curiosity why use the "Raptor"?? The Velociraptor scientifically is not the same dino shown in Jurassic Park. The Raptor is actually the same height as a chicken and also it is heavily feathered so there is a high chance that it is the Chicken's ancestor so to science geeks such as myself I find the name extremely funny.
> 
> I think if they used Petosaur it would have been much more appropriate for it.
> 
> Edit: Now that I have done more research on the subject I found out that the term "Raptor" is a general term for Daylight birds of prey and not the dinosaur..... But it would have been cool to name an Aircraft after a dinosaur and if anybody is gonna do it is the Americans.



"Raptor" is a bird of Prey!
F-22 is a bird of prey! 
simple as that!

on topic:

they are stationed there to gain air dominance in case of the conflict. but it would be interesting to see if it actually proves its stealth capability and other claimed capabilities...unlike the sentinel UAV!


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## gambit

razgriz19 said:


> they are stationed there to gain air dominance in case of the conflict. but it would be interesting to see if it actually proves its stealth capability and other claimed capabilities...unlike the sentinel UAV!


How about we already proved such 'stealth' capability? Unlike the Chinese and the Iranians, we do not feel the need to crow about these things. The SR-71 and the F-117 came to the public under pressure. U-2 flights over Soviet territories were kept silent by both sides. If we have already trespass Iranian air space without the Iranians knowing about it, have no doubt we will not be talking to reporters about it.



Safriz said:


> F-22 raptor isnt combat proven yet.
> bombing donkeys and mules in afghanistan or some kalashinkov weilding youths in Iraq proves nothing.


We have yet to see flying donkeys and AK wielding youths on flying magic carpets, so yes, the F-22 is not combat proven against these types.

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## Wright

im pretty sure the Iranians have already developed anti stealth raday by now. These are the same people who defeated Alexander the Great and Genghis khan. You think they cant defeat some Americans on F22?


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## BATMAN

Wright said:


> im pretty sure the Iranians have already developed anti stealth raday by now. These are the same people who defeated Alexander the Great and Genghis khan. *You think they cant defeat some Americans on F22?*



That's what we are trying to figure out. how on the earth would they do that?

F-22 vs. ???

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## Wright

BATMAN said:


> That's what we are trying to figure out. how on the earth would they do that?
> 
> F-22 vs. ???



Iranians have lots of mountains, and desert. The landscape is inhospitable. Any army or airforce would quickly get lost and be targeted from all sides by RPG fire and missles. The F22 wouldnt know what hit them.


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## gambit

Wright said:


> Iranians have lots of mountains, and desert. The landscape is inhospitable. Any army or airforce would quickly get lost and be targeted from all sides by RPG fire and missles. The F22 wouldnt know what hit them.


I wonder why does this affect only the F-22 but not the other aircrafts.


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## Rod of God

Peaceful Civlian said:


> Why U.S.A need f22 against Iraqi F14s.....??




Because we can ?


Standard deployment. This means nothing.



Wright said:


> im pretty sure the Iranians have already developed anti stealth raday by now. ...




Yeah, we call it 'binoculars'.



Wright said:


> ...airforce would quickly get lost and be targeted from all sides by RPG fire and missles. The F22 wouldnt know what hit them.




An RPG against an F-22 ? Nice !!

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## Mosamania

Wright said:


> im pretty sure the Iranians have already developed anti stealth raday by now. These are the same people who defeated Alexander the Great and Genghis khan. You think they cant defeat some Americans on F22?



Alexander the Great wasn't defeated by Persia. Mongolians were defeated by Mamlouks not Persians. Your history is screwed mate.

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## Edevelop

So is Iran up for another RQ-170 like situation?

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## Tija

Wright said:


> Iranians have lots of mountains, and desert. The landscape is inhospitable. Any army or airforce would quickly get lost and be targeted from all sides by RPG fire and missles. The F22 wouldnt know what hit them.



Ok at last my confusion solved. why American's not using F-22 in Afghanistan 

They have Binocular, they have Mountain & they have RPG's too. 

Please get at least some knowledge from google before registering here in


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## Mercenary

Could the capture of RQ-170 Drone compromise the F-22 Raptor?

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## nForce

If they fly those jets regularly near Iranian border then the Iranians will eventually come to know how to detect those using radar.
That may ruin the element of surprise when time actually comes to use them.

Its a stealth aircraft,means its hard to detect,but not impossible to detect.


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## anon45

Mercenary said:


> Could the capture of RQ-170 Drone compromise the F-22 Raptor?


 
Evidently the DoD thinks not... and they'd know best.


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## H1ndustaN1

LeGenD said:


> F22 can be used to knock out defensive systems around those sites and conduct other precision strike missions. They will make sure that USA gains complete air superiority over enemy territory before the bombers move in.
> 
> Bad news for Iran. What surprises me is that Iranians are underestimating US resolve and making fun of Isreali threats. They should tread carefully.
> 
> 
> Bro, understand that these are empty threats. This war will be suicidal for Iran instead, as much it hurts to say this.



If Russia intervenes militarily like they said they might do, then Iran stands a chance. Else I doubt they would survive this war.


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## gambit

Mercenary said:


> Could the capture of RQ-170 Drone compromise the F-22 Raptor?


No. Only with 'Iranian physics' is the UAV and an aircraft are the same.


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## Safriz

www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/110302-anti-stealth-radar-bi-static-radar.html


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## gambit

Safriz said:


> www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/110302-anti-stealth-radar-bi-static-radar.html


Not happening.


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## Thomas

H1ndustaN1 said:


> If Russia intervenes militarily like they said they might do, then Iran stands a chance. Else I doubt they would survive this war.




Russia isn't going throw in it's lot with Iran. There really isn't much in it for them to risk their forces on such a large scale. Especially if Iran attacks the GCC countries. Also it takes time and massive transport ability to move the forces that would be needed. Most of Iran&#8217;s infrastructure and military bases would be destroyed by then.

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## Safriz

^^^^ hi thomas...long time no see..
welcome back maty...


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## anonymus

Mosamania said:


> Alexander the Great wasn't defeated by Persia. Mongolians were defeated by Mamlouks not Persians. Your history is screwed mate.





gambit said:


> I wonder why does this affect only the F-22 but not the other aircrafts.



Looks like you both misplaced your funny bone today!

Wright was mocking Iranians.....



Safriz said:


> www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/110302-anti-stealth-radar-bi-static-radar.html



The Algorithms required for bi-static radar are so complex that the day we have a functional bi-static radar,we would also have a metorological model that makes 100% accurate prediction of a year's weather in advance.


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## illusion8

Thomas said:


> Russia isn't going throw in it's lot with Iran. There really isn't much in it for them to risk their forces on such a large scale. Especially if Iran attacks the GCC countries. Also it takes time and massive transport ability to move the forces that would be needed. Most of Iran&#8217;s infrastructure and military bases would be destroyed by then.



how about China and Pakistan?? Pakistan has said it will support Iran in case of war.

http://rt.com/news/pakistan-support-iran-us-attack-593/


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## Tshering22

illusion8 said:


> how about China and Pakistan?? Pakistan has said it will support Iran in case of war.
> 
> Pakistan allies with Iran against US &mdash; RT



How can it do that? Refusing bases to US is not going to be affecting them much because if at all there's any conflict coming, then they'd be already choosing other bases in the region that are not oil-sensitive. Pakistan cannot use its military equipment against US because that will tantamount to a large scale war. Neither can it send the Taliban to fight Americans as the Taliban hate Iranians as much as they hate US. 

So maybe political support in UN and moral support in global opinions is the only way Pakistan supports Iran.

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## NeutralCitizen

illusion8 said:


> how about China and Pakistan?? Pakistan has said it will support Iran in case of war.
> 
> Pakistan allies with Iran against US &mdash; RT


 
The Most they can do is supply weaponry and resources maybe independent manpower but other then that noting, Pakistan is in a crises of it's own while China wouldn't be dumb enough to get it's economy ruined the most they can do is supply enough weapons to kill as many Americans as possible.


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## illusion8

Tshering22 said:


> How can it do that? Refusing bases to US is not going to be affecting them much because if at all there's any conflict coming, then they'd be already choosing other bases in the region that are not oil-sensitive. Pakistan cannot use its military equipment against US because that will tantamount to a large scale war. Neither can it send the Taliban to fight Americans as the Taliban hate Iranians as much as they hate US.
> 
> So maybe political support in UN and moral support in global opinions is the only way Pakistan supports Iran.



There definitely will be covert support to Iran from Pakistan and possibly China as well.


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## NeutralCitizen

illusion8 said:


> There definitely will be covert support to Iran from Pakistan and possibly China as well.



Of course kill as many americans invading iran as possible routes weaponry will get through is Iran Turkmenistan border or the Iranian-Pakistan border or weapons through the caspian sea from Russia. the question is what will india do in case of an invasion of iran ?


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## illusion8

NeutralCitizen said:


> Of course kill as many americans invading iran as possible routes weaponry will get through is Iran Turkmenistan border or the Iranian-Pakistan border or weapons through the caspian sea from Russia. *the question is what will india do in case of an invasion of iran ?*



Will hope that the war actually doesn't happen, All three entities are friends of India.


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## NeutralCitizen

illusion8 said:


> Will hope that the war actually doesn't happen, All three entities are friends of India.



Iran gains a nuclear bomb they will become a regional superpower, I'm currently not aware of Irans delivering capability, but in that scenario the us will invade, India would likely stay neutral and call for peace but other countries will likely send weapons to kill as many americans.





[/IMG]


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## anonymus

NeutralCitizen said:


> Of course kill as many americans invading iran as possible routes weaponry will get through is Iran Turkmenistan border or the Iranian-Pakistan border or weapons through the caspian sea from Russia. the question is what will india do in case of an invasion of iran ?



What makes you think that USA would invade via land.

They may simply carry on a bombing campaign and leave.

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## NeutralCitizen

anonymus said:


> What makes you think that USA would invade via land.
> 
> They may simply carry on a bombing campaign and leave.



Bombing campaign of what the nuclear sites ? they will want to get rid of the leadership entirely because it can rebuild thats one of the flaws of an israeli strike Iran can rebuild ground invasion is needed for complete removal.


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## Markus

Its time for Stuxnet 2.0, you can possibly earn another 6 months !


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## NeutralCitizen

Markus said:


> Its time for Stuxnet 2.0, you can possibly earn another 6 months !




Time Time Time it's either the option of getting rid of Iran Current Regime via Proxies and internal unrests or Invasion.


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## Markus

NeutralCitizen said:


> Time Time Time it's either the option of getting rid of Iran Current Regime via Proxies and internal unrests or Invasion.



I think they just want to disable Iran's nuclear progress, going after leadership will not be possible without sending in ground troops, which we dont know if that will be the case.

At this point, it looks that it might just be an aerial assault.


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## NeutralCitizen

Markus said:


> I think they just want to disable Iran's nuclear progress, going after leadership will not be possible without sending in ground troops, which we dont know if that will be the case.
> 
> At this point, it looks that it might just be an aerial assault.



The problem with this is Iran will rebuild and whats the option bomb again it's going to come to regime removal or allow iran getting the N-Bomb not to mention iran will strike back with it's proxies and strait of hormuz.


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## anonymus

NeutralCitizen said:


> Bombing campaign of what the nuclear sites ? they will want to get rid of the leadership entirely because it can rebuild thats one of the flaws of an israeli strike Iran can rebuild ground invasion is needed for complete removal.



Why is removal of regime a requirement to stop Iran from making a nuke?????

America may simply do Iraq (1991-2003 version) where it destroys nuclear sites and when Iranian reconstruct them,come back and destroy them again.

This would not only be a cheaper but also more politically acceptable (Domestic level) idea.


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## NeutralCitizen

anonymus said:


> Why is removal of regime a requirement to stop Iran from making a nuke?????
> 
> America may simply do Iraq (1991-2003 version) where it destroys nuclear sites and when Iranian reconstruct them,come back and destroy them again.
> 
> This would not only be a cheaper but also more politically acceptable (Domestic level) idea.



Again Iranian proxies and closing the strait of Hormuz Iran is not Iraq, the only option for the west is to get rid of it or accept a nuclear iran.


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## anonymus

NeutralCitizen said:


> Again Iranian proxies and closing the strait of Hormuz Iran is not Iraq, the only option for the west is to get rid of it or accept a nuclear iran.



You are falling for your own propaganda.The firepower of single USN carrier is more than that of entire navies of the world combined.

*IFF* Iran closes down Hormuz strait the blockade would not last 24 hours. Hint: Operation praying mantis.

Ability to use proxies by any nation has gone down significantly with improvements in homeland defence technology and tactics,which is a by-product of 9/11.There has been no suicide attack in Israel since 2008.



NeutralCitizen said:


> Again Iranian proxies and closing the strait of Hormuz Iran is not Iraq, the only option for the west is to get rid of it or accept a nuclear iran.



Operation praying mantis was against Iran only (not Iraq) and was taken up in same circumstances.USN blew whole of Iranian navy out of water with the loss of just one chopper,which crashed into see due to technical defects.

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## NeutralCitizen

anonymus said:


> You are falling for your own propaganda.The firepower of single USN carrier is more than that of entire navies of the world combined.
> 
> *IFF* Iran closes down Hormuz strait the blockade would not last 24 hours. Hint: Operation praying mantis.
> 
> Ability to use proxies by any nation has gone down significantly with improvements in homeland defence technology and tactics,which is a by-product of 9/11.There has been no suicide attack in Israel since 2008.



It's no propaganda Iran will strike on the US Bases and damage as much Oil tankers in the strait the it's going to bleed the US as much as it can, Really Hezbollah ? Islamic Jihad if the US currently launches a Strike it's going to have to strike both Hezbollah and Hamas due to that.


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## anonymus

NeutralCitizen said:


> It's no propaganda Iran will strike on the US Bases and damage as much Oil tankers in the strait the it's going to bleed the US as much as it can, Really Hezbollah ? Islamic Jihad if the US currently launches a Strike it's going to have to strike both Hezbollah and Hamas due to that.



There is an specific metaphor in India to describe this kind of thinking-" Mungeri lal ke hassen sapney".(Don't worry there is no cuss words in it)

No one is saying that Iran would not *try* to hit US Bases and try to close hormuz strait.But you seem to be ignoring some basic facts.

1.US has stealth bombers and fighters.In first wave Iranians would not even know what had hit them.

2.US has immense firepower.They have capacity to sink every vessel Iran has and destroy every vehicle in Iran without boots on ground.

3.US bases are protected by missile defence shield.

4.Iran does not have Infinite supply of missiles.

5.Simultaneous launches of a large number of missiles is operationally impossible when your command and control centre have been taken out.

Regarding hamas and hizbollah,again don't fall for your own propaganda.Israel-Hizbollah clashesh in 2006 were in no way a victory of Hizbollah.

Now Israel has much advanced missile defence.

Also you are forgetting that Israel did not responded to firing of scudsin 1991 gulf war because that would have broken up the Us led coalition.With the current civil war between Shia's and sunnis going on,it would not have to hold back it's hand.

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## SajeevJino

Till Today F22 is not Combat Proven ..If They bombard in Iran Territory It's Proved 

And one more also ...We have a News that Russian Era Radar equipments are installed near to watch the enemy incoming...so it's also time to check Russian Radars that they Capture the Raptors...


USA studied lot of Lessons in Vietnam WAR ..I hope that they don't Repeat their mistakes once again..They have some successful Victories in many war games...They have a good Technical ally Israel Behind It...........

and one advice to Iran....Don't take your planes outside of your Sheds...If you do They are Not responsible for your lives...
because this is not Vietnam baby.....


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## warpig

NeutralCitizen said:


> It's no propaganda Iran will strike on the US Bases and damage as much Oil tankers in the strait the it's going to bleed the US as much as it can, Really Hezbollah ? Islamic Jihad if the US currently launches a Strike it's going to have to strike both Hezbollah and Hamas due to that.


really ? hezbollah? 
hezbollah was only able to defend it self because they where hiding 
and only using ambushes to fight israel ! they cant attack head on !!!
and iran cant close the straight because we dont have enough power to do so !!!
and if you think taking down A rq170 means we can detect stealth bomber your gravely mistaken 
because if that theory is correct the us would have been defeated by any country in the world!

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## Audio

anonymus said:


> You are falling for your own propaganda.The firepower of single USN carrier is more than that of entire navies of the world combined.



Right.....

Also, before y'all get your panties wet-there were F-22's stationed in UAE in 2009.


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## warpig

Audio said:


> Right.....
> 
> Also, before y'all get your panties wet-there were F-22's stationed in UAE in 2009.


yea i dont think f22 being stationed there is the issue 
i really dont like iran regime but wrong is wrong whats
with you guys wanting to attack iran?


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## Hack-Hook

Mosamania said:


> Alexander the Great wasn't defeated by Persia. Mongolians were defeated by Mamlouks not Persians. Your history is screwed mate.


well we certainly stopped Romans and captured their emperor .
by the way mongols were part of the tribe of central asia , we stopped them for hundreds of years and when we could not stop them they become well known to the rest of the world as mongols .


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## Markus

NeutralCitizen said:


> The problem with this is Iran will rebuild and whats the option bomb again it's going to come to regime removal or allow iran getting the N-Bomb not to mention iran will strike back with it's proxies and strait of hormuz.



Ofcourse, they can rebuild.

But if the aerial missions achieve their objectives of causing maximum damage to the facilities, it would push back Iran's nuclear program by a considerable amount of time PLUS sanctions that come into force against Iran this June onwards will also affect Iran's primary source of revenue.


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## Oldman1

warpig said:


> yea i dont think f22 being stationed there is the issue
> i really dont like iran regime but wrong is wrong whats
> with you guys wanting to attack iran?



Whether it be F15s, F16s, or F22s, the Iranians are describing it as plot. Thats how paranoid they are even thought the U.S. has based fighters and carriers for many many years. So why this kind of reaction now?

Iran lawmaker: Fighters in UAE are US-Israeli plot - Yahoo! News

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) &#8212; A prominent Iranian lawmaker says the reported basing of America's most sophisticated stealth jet fighters in the United Arab Emirates is a U.S.-Israel plot to create regional instability.

Kazem Jalali was reacting to media reports of the recent deployment of F-22 Raptors at the UAE's Al Dafra Air Base, which has long hosted U.S. warplanes.

The deployment was first reported in the journal Aviation Week, but U.S. and UAE officials have not publicly commented.

Jalali was quoted by the semiofficial ISNA news agency Sunday.

Tehran and Washington are at odds over Iran's nuclear program. The U.S. and Israel say Iran is seeking nuclear weapons, a charge Tehran denies. The two countries have not ruled out military action against Iranian facilities.


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## Thomas

Oldman1 said:


> Whether it be F15s, F16s, or F22s, the Iranians are describing it as plot. Thats how paranoid they are even thought the U.S. has based fighters and carriers for many many years. So why this kind of reaction now?
> 
> Iran lawmaker: Fighters in UAE are US-Israeli plot - Yahoo! News
> 
> TEHRAN, Iran (AP) &#8212; A prominent Iranian lawmaker says the reported basing of America's most sophisticated stealth jet fighters in the United Arab Emirates is a U.S.-Israel plot to create regional instability.
> 
> Kazem Jalali was reacting to media reports of the recent deployment of F-22 Raptors at the UAE's Al Dafra Air Base, which has long hosted U.S. warplanes.
> 
> The deployment was first reported in the journal Aviation Week, but U.S. and UAE officials have not publicly commented.
> 
> Jalali was quoted by the semiofficial ISNA news agency Sunday.
> 
> Tehran and Washington are at odds over Iran's nuclear program. The U.S. and Israel say Iran is seeking nuclear weapons, a charge Tehran denies. The two countries have not ruled out military action against Iranian facilities.




The F-22's are much more then just advanced fighters being deployed. They are symbols of US technological ability and power that have most major militaries of the world wanting to mimic them. This deployment is meant as a message to the Iranians ahead of the June meeting. I'm sure the Iranian leadership understands this.

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## Malik Alashter

No, war is coming at all.


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## unicorn

Similar sort of thing U.S. did in 2010 but nothing happened back then.We can safely assume that Iran will not be intimidated with any kind of move.

*Report: U.S. positioning 'bunker-busters' for possible Iran strike*



> The United States is transporting 387 "bunker-buster" bombs to its air base on the island of Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean as part of preparations for a possible strike against Iran's nuclear facilities, according to a report in Scotland's Sunday Herald.



http://www.haaretz.com/news/report-u-s-positioning-bunker-busters-for-possible-iran-strike-1.266529


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## Hack-Hook

Thomas said:


> The F-22's are much more then just advanced fighters being deployed. They are symbols of US technological ability and power that have most major militaries of the world wanting to mimic them. This deployment is meant as a message to the Iranians ahead of the June meeting. I'm sure the Iranian leadership understands this.



well if Iran wanted to be worry about something it would be B-2 not F-22


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## Wright

JEskandari said:


> well if Iran wanted to be worry about something it would be B-2 not F-22



F22 is far more advanced in terms of stealth capability. B2 is 20 years old now. 

F22 is much faster and agile as well.


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## AUSTERLITZ

Don Jaguar said:


> This war will be suicidal mistake of US.



Basically if iran nukes up so does sauidis,turkey and egypt get in the race too.A whole much more dangerous middle east.I would never trust saudis would nukes.Anyday wahabi mullahs might take over and they ARE fanatical enough to blow everyone.Anyway if they get nukes they will use it as blackmail when they run out of oil.
I'm afraid War looks very probable now.
The stationing and increasing of the new anti ballistic missile system aegis cruisers and destroyers in the gulf,plus added carrier battle groups.This build up in high end aircraft all look ominous.Especially with them out of iraq and economy slowly recovering out of recession they have more breathing space now.

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## Safriz

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Basically if iran nukes up so does sauidis,turkey and egypt get in the race too.A whole much more dangerous middle east.I would never trust saudis would nukes.Anyday wahabi mullahs might take over and they ARE fanatical enough to blow everyone.Anyway if they get nukes they will use it as blackmail when they run out of oil.
> I'm afraid War looks very probable now.
> The stationing and increasing of the new anti ballistic missile system aegis cruisers and destroyers in the gulf,plus added carrier battle groups.This build up in high end aircraft all look ominous.Especially with them out of iraq and economy slowly recovering out of recession they have more breathing space now.


 
you sound like a right idiot...
wahabis arent animals and have value for life..and have way less blood on their hands than USA.
If the world can trust USA with 10 gigatons of nukes...they can trust anybody with nukes

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## AUSTERLITZ

I don't think wahabbis value life,sry.They are more interested in afterlife.Certainly don't trust them with nukes with their record in financing terror.

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## Birbal

anonymus said:


> You are falling for your own propaganda.The firepower of single USN carrier is more than that of entire navies of the world combined.
> 
> *IFF* Iran closes down Hormuz strait the blockade would not last 24 hours. Hint: Operation praying mantis.



The "blockade" would consist of land based artillery and cruise missiles sinking any ship that tries to run the blockade. The USN carrier won't be able to defend the entire strait of Hormuz against the Iranian army.


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## Birbal

I expect Israel is going to try to pressure the US to attempt a strike on Iran before election day. I pray the US doesn't give in to the pressure, but I fear that we will.


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## Birbal

I never thought I'd praise Brzezinski but I have to right here: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2009/09/18/how-obama-flubbed-his-missile-message.html



> *How aggressive can Obama be in insisting to the Israelis that a military strike might be in America&#8217;s worst interest?*
> We are not exactly impotent little babies. They have to fly over our airspace in Iraq. Are we just going to sit there and watch?
> 
> *What if they fly over anyway?*
> Well, we have to be serious about denying them that right. That means a denial where you aren&#8217;t just saying it. If they fly over, you go up and confront them. They have the choice of turning back or not. No one wishes for this but it could be a Liberty in reverse. [Israeli jet fighters and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty in international waters, off the Sinai Peninsula, during the Six-Day War in 1967. Israel later claimed the ship was the object of friendly fire.]


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## anonymus

Birbal said:


> The "blockade" would consist of land based artillery and cruise missiles sinking any ship that tries to run the blockade. The USN carrier won't be able to defend the entire strait of Hormuz against the Iranian army.



Your reasoning facility seem to be clouded by your hatred for Ameri*KKK*a.

Using Land Based artillery to target a vessel in water body which have three dimension of movement of freedom is a troll Idea.

Had that been even remotely possible countries today would be investing in self propelled guns instead of tank armies.Afterall Artillery has an effective range of 40-70KM while tanks have a puny range if 4-9 Kms.




Cruise missile and laying of mines on other hand are tactics which are in the realm of theoretically possible but practically impossible.

Even after it is assumed that those missile are not obliterated on ground in air strikes,what would the US ships with Aegis missile defence system on-board be doing.

Also length of Strait of Hormuz is 280 Km.Even a third grade navy would be able to defend it but USN would not be able to defend the strait...................Right


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## Screambowl

The US fears that if Iran succeeds in making a nuclear device, this technology will be spread through out the world. So I think. Iran has to prove that they are capable of keeping the technology in safe hands. There is no problem if they build reactors for power generation. But since the US has deployed its most advanced fighter there could be something coming up. 
Best will be a dialog.


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## anti-hero

Why do we need to deploy F-22s against the Iranians??I thought their airforce was obsolete??


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## regular

Birbal said:


> I expect Israel is going to try to pressure the US to attempt a strike on Iran before election day. I pray the US doesn't give in to the pressure, but I fear that we will.


So this means that India involved too alogwith US???......



AUSTERLITZ said:


> I don't think wahabbis value life,sry.They are more interested in afterlife.Certainly don't trust them with nukes with their record in financing terror.


I guess U need to learn something from the history that they are the offshoots of the british MI6.....umm so this means indirectly that MI6 don't value life???.....


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## Audio

It's six Raptors and according to theAviationist.com they are block 30 versions (no ground attack ability). 

Exclusive: What nobody else will tell you about the U.S. F-22 stealth fighters deployed near Iran « The Aviationist

I apologize if this link has already been posted.


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## gambit

anti-hero said:


> Why do we need to deploy F-22s against the Iranians??I thought their airforce was obsolete??


We do not need to. We want to.


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## ejaz007

*Small Number of Pilots Wary of Flying F-22*



A very small number of F-22 pilots have requested to not fly the U.S. Air Forces Raptors following the grounding and unfruitful investigation into the oxygen problems plaguing the stealthy jet, the head of Air Combat Command said April 30.

The service has yet to identify a root cause for 11 unexplained hypoxia-related incidents, and the command has extended its investigation to looking at ground maintainers who have experienced oxygen-related problems in handling the jet, Gen. Mike Hostage said in a wide-ranging media briefing at Joint Base Langley -Eustis, Va.

There is a worry among pilots, Hostage said, but he does not see a reason to stand down. The briefing, in fact, came just days after the Air Force announced that a squadron of F-22s were headed to a deployment in southwest Asia. Officials on April 30 would not say where the F-22s were deployed from, or give additional details about their mission.

The risk is not as low as Id like it, Hostage said of the deployed F-22s.

This nation needs this airplane. I wish I had 10 times as many. Its our best airplane, he added.

The Air Force in May 2011 grounded its entire F-22 fleet for four months due to repeated cases of hypoxia. Maj. Gen. Charles Lyon, the director of operations for ACC, said that the F-22 has flown 12,000 sorties since September with 11 unexplained cases of hypoxia.

Since the grounding was lifted, pilots have taken extra precautions such as wearing a commercial pulse oximeter to measure the amount of oxygen in their blood and added a charcoal air filter to measure the amount of toxins in the air. The filters were recently removed, Lyon said, because analysis of more than 500 revealed no unhealthy amount of toxins post-flight.

ACC has directed all pilots to abort their mission and land the aircraft if they encounter any physiological problems, Hostage said. Since the directive was announced, which began after pilots were cleared to fly following the grounding, there has been an expected increase in incidents.

We fully expect that we are going to have more incidents since we lowered the threshold, Hostage said.

Hostage said the F-22 is back to flying long flights and at high altitude. The Raptors were contained to a lower ceiling immediately after the grounding was lifted.

A large task force, including engineers, doctors, physiologists, analysts and others, is continuing to try to determine a root cause. Lyon said he believes there is a root cause and that the service is narrowing down on it. Either pilots are not getting enough oxygen for some reason or toxins are either not being filtered or the aircraft is creating them, he indicated.

The smoking gun is disassembled in a mosaic in front of us ... at some point were going to have the smoking gun assembled, Lyon said.


Email: beverstine@defensenews.com


&#8216;Small Number&#8217; of Pilots Wary of Flying F-22 | Defense News | defensenews.com


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## AUSTERLITZ

regular said:


> So this means that India involved too alogwith US???......
> 
> 
> I guess U need to learn something from the history that they are the offshoots of the british MI6.....umm so this means indirectly that MI6 don't value life???.....



Typical tendency to blame everything on the west or some conspiracy as always.


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## jai231179

The way I see it, things are really not looking up for Iran at this point. The US is positioning itself to strike soon.


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## junk

Mosamania said:


> *To take care of the menace once and for all* so *we can finally have peace and prosperity in the region.* And Welcome our American allies *I have officially today given up on all those people who call "Ummah" and "Arab brotherhood" and stuff like that. Yes they can all go to hell for all I care.* Me Me and only Me that matters and that is the end of that.



Yes GCC sheikdoms are not just menace to iran but to the whole world 

Yes we can finally have peace & prosperity when terrorist funding sheikdoms are brought to books & their cultish ideology wahabi/salafi which matches the text book definition of zionism is dealt with a final death blow


looks like a squealing rat hiding behind a bull dog & whilst threatening the cat.

GCC sheikdoms have double crossed the humanity

Mosa:- people do not really care what saudi-arabia is or what breed the saudis are, if there were no holy structures in GCC probably your country would be as important to the world as Madagascar is, stop acting important cuz you guys are really not.

*Another gem from mosa*


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## Thomas

Audio said:


> It's six Raptors and according to theAviationist.com they are block 30 versions (no ground attack ability).
> 
> Exclusive: What nobody else will tell you about the U.S. F-22 stealth fighters deployed near Iran « The Aviationist
> 
> I apologize if this link has already been posted.




what they don't mention is the large number of F-15's the F-22's are deployed along side. They are practicing joint operations designed to establish air domination over Iran.


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## SQ8

And I think this was a concept discussed much earlier..
The raptors acting as point men for the F-15's.. providing targeting information and taking out high value assets while the F-15's act as BVR steam rollers.


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## Safriz

so USA is all geared up for yet another war....
that will bring peace

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## H1ndustaN1

BATMAN said:


> I second that.. I have personally asked hundreds of Iranians about there political affiliations and failed to find a single person who voted for Ahmadi Nejad.
> I have witnessed open defiance during election time, every shop, every car and every person was wearing green.
> I was actually, surprised on this discovery.
> Before, facing the reality i use to believe that Ahmedi Nejad is as much a favorite figure in Iran as it is in Pakistan.
> 
> BTW... *mig-29 does not stand a chance against F-22 but Iran's retaliation would be target at Arab state.*



I agree with you on that one. Iran sure doesn't stand a chance against the USA and I'm sure they are well aware of this too. My guess is if they are going down, they will do all they can to take the GCC states and Israel down with them.

Diplomacy is still the best to hope for over there.



junk said:


> Yes GCC sheikdoms are not just menace to iran but to the whole world
> 
> Yes we can finally have peace & prosperity when terrorist funding sheikdoms are brought to books & their cultish ideology wahabi/salafi which matches the text book definition of zionism is dealt with a final death blow
> 
> 
> looks like a squealing rat hiding behind a bull dog & whilst threatening the cat.
> 
> GCC sheikdoms have double crossed the humanity
> 
> Mosa:- people do not really care what saudi-arabia is or what breed the saudis are, if there were no holy structures in GCC probably your country would be as important to the world as Madagascar is, stop acting important cuz you guys are really not.
> 
> *Another gem from mosa*



Not the structures, its all about the oil. The day oil runs out, the GCC will be forgotten like the rest of Africa.


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## Jango

Safriz said:


> so USA is all geared up for yet another war....
> that will bring peace



What???

Are you mad.?

A nobel peace prize award holder would never do such a thing!


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## regular

Thomas said:


> what they don't mention is the large number of F-15's the F-22's are deployed along side. They are practicing joint operations designed to establish air domination over Iran.


Oh! Okay Nice to hear that....let the showdown begin and we see who is how much under water.....let the game begins.....looks like the results would be realli surprising.....


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## AHMED85

So when these Falcon give permission to Fly


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## Ulysses

anti-hero said:


> Why do we need to deploy F-22s against the Iranians??I thought their airforce was obsolete??



We don't need it... 

But just in case anybody eles wants to join and help defend Iran they will meet the F-22s.... which side is Pakistan in?


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## regular

Ulysses said:


> We don't need it...
> 
> But just in case anybody eles wants to join and help defend Iran they will meet the F-22s.... which side is Pakistan in?


Pakistan's ruling elite is alwayz ure lapdog/poodle but the public will alwayz be opposite to it.....So now U can visualize the situation ureself.....
Anywayz Pakistan don't care about F-22's they already have the anti-stealth tech.....


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## gambit

Oscar said:


> And I think this was a concept discussed much earlier..
> The raptors acting as point men for the F-15's.. providing targeting information and taking out high value assets while the F-15's act as BVR steam rollers.


Try this...

What happens when you find of yours explode in flight? The rest of you scatter. That is what a couple of F-22s can do: Disrupt enemy formation. Then as everyone scattered to the ends trying to find who was the shooter, the F-15s will gang up on the individuals and pick them off. You are always most vulnerable when you are running for your lives.


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## regular

gambit said:


> Try this...
> 
> What happens when you find of yours explode in flight? The rest of you scatter. That is what a couple of F-22s can do: Disrupt enemy formation. Then as everyone scattered to the ends trying to find who was the shooter, the F-15s will gang up on the individuals and pick them off. You are always most vulnerable when you are running for your lives.


I wish we ever run for our lives cuz we got a big problem that we never dare to run for our lives but we are always on a run to give our lives.......I don't know why we guyz do like that but thats our way. So its sad that we won't be vulnerable as U thought and it might dissappoint our enemy expecting different in the war scenarios.....


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## Thomas

regular said:


> Pakistan's ruling elite is alwayz ure lapdog/poodle but the public will alwayz be opposite to it.....So now U can visualize the situation ureself.....
> *Anywayz Pakistan don't care about F-22's they already have the anti-stealth tech*.....



I guess that means Pakistan was actually in on the Osama raid since an RQ-170 was circling Abattabod for months?

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## pakdefender

US pilots are refusing to fly the F-22 due to oxygen supply problems.

Some Pilots have lost their lives due to this fault
Family of F22 pilot 'killed by oxygen cut-off' accuses Air Force of cover up after blaming him not $420m plane for crash | Mail Online 

others are being intimidated to continue to fly this thing and remain silent about this problem
Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over F-22 Raptor Jet Concerns - ABC News


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## Johny D

at last F-22 got an onsite work...but its so sad to know that its in gulf...gora kala na ho jaye! ;-)


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