# Guns of Pakistan



## angeldust

I am something of a guns buff. I am fascinated by them. I love watching all the hardware shows on Discovery Science. But as you know, it really difficult owning one in India.

Not so in Pakistan. The Pakistani Constitution apparently guarantees every citizen the right to bear arms. And we all know about the huge black markets of Peshawar and Karachi where everything from an AK to an Uzi is available dirt cheap.

But recently I was watching a documentatry on gun makng in Pakistan, which is an old and flourishing cottage industry. I think it was either BBC or Al Jazeera.

The name of the place featured is somewhere near Peshawar - a place called Darra Adam Khel.

Man, you should see the type of stuff these old phattechd looking bearded babas make there. Nothing like the crude local kattas we see coming out of UP, MP etc. 

These are proper authentic looking automatics with slick actions and even stamped like the originals. Seeing the karigari and the attention to detail, I was stunned and super impressed.

And they do this is jhuggi jhopdis man. With fire kilns. And small brick enclosures for fire testing.

Man this is one thing Pakistan is generations ahead of us. World class!!!!! Hats off.

I would love it if Pakistanis can contribute here with info and photos of these home made guns please. And approximate prices too. Including ammo.

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## angeldust

Just look at some of these photos!

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## Icarus

I bought a Dragunov (Real Russian) during my time in FATA. Set me back PKR 500,000.

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## Kyusuibu Honbu

Icarus said:


> I bought a Dragunov (Real Russian) during my time in FATA. Set me back PKR 500,000.



pics?.............


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## angeldust

Yes man, pics please. Dragunov as in the sniper rifle?






Please don't mind the amateur questions. I am no expert. 

I just love technology and their look and feel.


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## Icarus

angeldust said:


> Yes man, pics please. Dragunov as in the sniper rifle?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't mind the amateur questions. I am no expert.
> 
> I just love technology and their look and feel.



Yes, exactly the same. I had to sell it when I came back because it was too much of a hassle trying to obtain a license for a sniper rifle in Islamabad. 
Right now I own:

1) 2x AMD-65
2) 1x Ceska Brno Shotgun
3) 2x Hatsan Escort Semi Automatic Shotguns
4) 1x Baikal Shotgun (Model written in Russian)
5) 1x Norinco CF-98
6) 1x Taurus PT-92
7) 2x Astra Fircats
8) 1x Remington 1100 Shotgun
Previously Owned:

1) Saiga 12 Shotgun
2) Walther G22
3) AK-104 
4) RPK-74
5) Winchester Defender

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## angeldust

Wow! Man that list without pictures is like the roster list of a Victoria's Secret catwalk. 

But actually what you have listed are all firang guns. Impressive nonetheless but not what really impressed me.

See this is what we make here in the villages in India, variously called katta, ghoda, tamancha, etc. :






This is the variety (country made guns) I was talking about.

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## karan.1970

Icarus said:


> Yes, exactly the same. I had to sell it when I came back because it was too much of a hassle trying to obtain a license for a sniper rifle in Islamabad.
> Right now I own:
> 
> 1) 2x AMD-65
> 2) 1x Ceska Brno Shotgun
> 3) 2x Hatsan Escort Semi Automatic Shotguns
> 4) 1x Baikal Shotgun (Model written in Russian)
> 5) 1x Norinco CF-98
> 6) 1x Taurus PT-92
> 7) 2x Astra Fircats
> 8) 1x Remington 1100 Shotgun
> Previously Owned:
> 
> 1) Saiga 12 Shotgun
> 2) Walther G22
> 3) AK-104
> 4) RPK-74
> 5) Winchester Defender



You have a frikkin armory dude.. Will have to think twice before arguing with you again


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## Icarus

karan.1970 said:


> You have a frikkin armory dude.. Will have to think twice before arguing with you again



I'm a gun buff, what can I say! lol


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## third eye

Icarus said:


> Yes, exactly the same. I had to sell it when I came back because it was too much of a hassle trying to obtain a license for a sniper rifle in Islamabad.
> Right now I own:
> 
> 1) 2x AMD-65
> 2) 1x Ceska Brno Shotgun
> 3) 2x Hatsan Escort Semi Automatic Shotguns
> 4) 1x Baikal Shotgun (Model written in Russian)
> 5) 1x Norinco CF-98
> 6) 1x Taurus PT-92
> 7) 2x Astra Fircats
> 8) 1x Remington 1100 Shotgun
> Previously Owned:
> 
> 1) Saiga 12 Shotgun
> 2) Walther G22
> 3) AK-104
> 4) RPK-74
> 5) Winchester Defender



How many of these are licensed ?

Do you get an arms license for Semi Automatic weapons in Pak ?

What are there prohibited & Non Prohibited bores ?

How many weapons can a person officially keep ?


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## Icarus

angeldust said:


> Wow! Man that list without pictures is like the roster list of a Victoria's Secret catwalk.
> 
> But actually what you have listed are all firang guns. Impressive nonetheless but not what really impressed me.
> 
> See this is what we make here in the villages in India, variously called katta, ghoda, tamancha, etc. :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the variety (country made guns) I was talking about.



I had two Dara made copies of the Soviet TT pistol but one of them had started shooting towards the left and the other's ejector mechanism had developed a fault, so I had them repaired and sold them. PKR 4000 for one and PKR 5000 for the other. 
BTW, Tamancha? That's what we call all pistols in Pushto!



third eye said:


> How many of these are licensed ?
> 
> Do you get an arms license for Semi Automatic weapons in Pak ?
> 
> What are there prohibited & Non Prohibited bores ?
> 
> How many weapons can a person officially keep ?



They are all licensed. Technically a man can own as many weapons as he can afford in Pakistan, it makes for plenty of tax to keep them legal.
Automatic weapons require a license signed by the Prime Minister, it's a lengthy process, takes about a year or more with fairly high rejection rates.
All callibres from .22 to .45 are NPBs. Single action rifles are NPB. PBs are automatic rifles which usually fall within the 7mm callibre range.
BTW add:

1x .303 Jungle Carbine 
1x Norinco Black Star Onix 

To my list of available fire arms, I had almost forgotten them.


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## angeldust

Icarus said:


> BTW, Tamancha? That's what we call all pistols in Pushto!



Mumbai underworld must be having many Pushto recruits then. LOL

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## third eye

Icarus said:


> I had two Dara made copies of the Soviet TT pistol but one of them had started shooting towards the left and the other's ejector mechanism had developed a fault, so I had them repaired and sold them. PKR 4000 for one and PKR 5000 for the other.
> BTW, Tamancha? *That's what we call all pistols in Pushto*!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They are all licensed. Technically a man can own as many weapons as he can afford in Pakistan, it makes for plenty of tax to keep them legal.
> Automatic weapons require a license signed by the Prime Minister, it's a lengthy process, takes about a year or more with fairly high rejection rates.
> .303, 7.62mm, 5.56mm are all forbidden bores.
> 
> BTW add:
> 
> 1x .303 Jungle Carbine
> 1x Norinco Black Star Onix
> 
> To my list of available fire arms, I had almost forgotten them.



Surprising !

Tamancha & Katta as mentioned by angeldust are how country made pistols called all over India or at least in the hindi speaking regions- mumbai included.

Reminds me of the time in Maldives on a project I was surprised to know from a work gang from the middle east that they also called a rope Rassa / Rassi based on how thick it is.

Must be the mix of Persian/ arabic / Hindi / Urdu that has spread over the subcontinent over the centuries.

In my part of the world the fastest thing to get stolen are pipes lying around - more so those that suit the 12 bore cartridges.

How about .38 ? Is it a permitted bore ?


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## Icarus

third eye said:


> Surprising !
> 
> Tamancha & Katta as mentioned by angeldust are how country made pistols called all over India or at least in the hindi speaking regions- mumbai included.
> 
> Reminds me of the time in Maldives on a project I was surprised to know from a work gang from the middle east that they also called a rope Rassa / Rassi based on how thick it is.
> 
> Must be the mix of Persian/ arabic / Hindi / Urdu that has spread over the subcontinent over the centuries.
> 
> In my part of the world the fastest thing to get stolen are pipes lying around - more so those that suit the 12 bore cartridges.
> 
> How about .38 ? Is it a permitted bore ?



Small world isn't it? Makes you wonder. 
As for the .38, yeah it's legal.


Here's another addition to my first list:

1x Walther P38 (Plus 2x original mags)


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## third eye

Icarus said:


> Small world isn't it? Makes you wonder.
> As for the .38, yeah it's legal.
> 
> 
> Here's another addition to my first list:
> 
> 1x Walther P38 (Plus 2x original mags)


 

Err..

What would the percentage of Pakistanis like you - the kind who have minor armories ?

Is it easy to get ammo for these weapons ? Does one have to have it endorsed on the arms license.

Lastly, if I am not being too personal - where does on use these weapons ? Can you carry them in public - the ones without a license ?

I have a good old .22 Rifle, .32 Colt & 12 Bore.

Hardly get an occasion to use it anymore - shikar is banned.

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## Icarus

third eye said:


> Err..
> 
> What would the percentage of Pakistanis like you - the kind who have minor armories ?



KPK= Plenty
Punjab= Few
Sindh= Plenty
Balochistan= Plenty
Gilgit-Baltistan= Few
AJ&K= Few

Almost everyone has one or two weapons. About 20% would have mini-armouries. 



> Is it easy to get ammo for these weapons ? Does one have to have it endorsed on the arms license.



Ammo is easy to come by though it has to be endorsed on the license.



> Lastly, if I am not being too personal - where does on use these weapons ? Can you carry them in public - the ones without a license ?



Range, Skeet Shooting, Occasional Shikar and When on Duty.
Once a month or two, I take all the guns to the range and skeet club, me and friends shoot our ear drums out and then I go home, strip them down and clean each one for next month.



> I have a good old .22 Rifle, .32 Colt & 12 Bore.
> 
> Hardly get an occasion to use it anymore - shikar is banned.



Shikar banned in all states or just where you live?


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## third eye

Icarus said:


> KPK= Plenty
> Punjab= Few
> Sindh= Plenty
> Balochistan= Plenty
> Gilgit-Baltistan= Few
> AJ&K= Few
> 
> Almost everyone has one or two weapons. About 20% would have mini-armouries.
> 
> 
> 
> Ammo is easy to come by though it has to be endorsed on the license.
> 
> 
> 
> Range, Skeet Shooting, Occasional Shikar and When on Duty.
> Once a month or two, I take all the guns to the range and skeet club, me and friends shoot our ear drums out and then I go home, strip them down and clean each one for next month.
> 
> 
> 
> Shikar banned in all states or just where you live?



Interesting.

Shikar is not permitted across & is as good as history.

Sometimes one gets a licence to shoot vermin - wild boar, Blue Bulls depending on the region and administration- that too under tight scrutiny. One even needs a license to fish - officially.

Occasionally one used to get a partridge or rabbit at best. 

Today one can hope to get away if caught after killing a man but there is no hope for someone caught killing wild life or cutting a tree !


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## forcetrip

http://postimage.org/image/3y7zqrcjn/

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## Icarus

third eye said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Shikar is not permitted across & is as good as history.
> 
> Sometimes one gets a licence to shoot vermin - wild boar, Blue Bulls depending on the region and administration- that too under tight scrutiny. One even needs a license to fish - officially.
> 
> Occasionally one used to get a partridge or rabbit at best.
> 
> Today one can hope to get away if caught after killing a man but there is no hope for someone caught killing wild life or cutting a tree !



Here hunting on official reserves is subject to license but private game farms for the wealthy make it easier for people with connections to still enjoy shikar.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Icarus said:


> Yes, exactly the same. I had to sell it when I came back because it was too much of a hassle trying to obtain a license for a sniper rifle in Islamabad.
> 1) 2x AMD-65
> Right now I own:
> 2) 1x Ceska Brno Shotgun
> 3) 2x Hatsan Escort Semi Automatic Shotguns
> 4) 1x Baikal Shotgun (Model written in Russian)
> 5) 1x Norinco CF-98
> 6) 1x Taurus PT-92
> 7) 2x Astra Fircats
> 8) 1x Remington 1100 Shotgun
> Previously Owned:
> 
> *1) Saiga 12 Shotgun
> *2) Walther G22
> *3) AK-104
> *4) RPK-74
> 5) Winchester Defender


 

How much did those cost you?


I have :
2x AMDs
2x AK-47s
2x 222s
1x baikal 12 bore -double barrel USSR made..
2x baikal repeaters
2x M-16s
1x M-4
1x walther
2x T.T russian/norinco
2x S&W handguns
1x beretta
1x british made sniper (dont know its name)
1x makarov
1x Beretta Over and under shotgun
1x PPSH

etc....


Winchester defender... i have one that belonged to my grandfather..

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## krash

third eye said:


> Interesting.
> 
> Shikar is not permitted across & is as good as history.
> 
> Sometimes one gets a licence to shoot vermin - wild boar, Blue Bulls depending on the region and administration- that too under tight scrutiny. One even needs a license to fish - officially.
> 
> Occasionally one used to get a partridge or rabbit at best.
> 
> Today one can hope to get away if caught after killing a man but there is no hope for someone caught killing wild life or cutting a tree !



Don't know much about hunting here but its the same story with fishing here too. The fishing licenses are easy and cheap to get but there are restrictions on them. For example you can't use live and/or organic bait in most of the areas etc. The fisheries department has got men every where now. You'd be sitting alone casting and recasting when you'll notice someone has creeped up on you. He'll be wearing civilian clothing and would seem completely un-alarming. He'll start up a random conversation, smiling, which would sooner or later turn into how he's always been interested in fishing but never got the chance and hence doesn't jack about it. He'll start asking you about it very inconspicuously, will inquire what bait, line and pole is best. Then he'll ask you which of these you use. He'll ask you how many you've caught and if one needs a licence to fish. And the moment you give one wrong answer....BAM.....you're on your way to the local police station. You could be sentenced up to 6 months in prison, fined PKR 50,000 or both.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Forgot the vintage 3.3 bolt action rifles...

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## Icarus

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> How much did those cost you?
> 
> 
> I have :
> 2x AMDs
> 2x AK-47s
> 2x 222s
> 1x baikal 12 bore -double barrel USSR made..
> 2x baikal repeaters
> 2x M-16s
> 1x M-4
> 1x walther
> 2x T.T russian/norinco
> 2x S&W handguns
> 1x beretta
> 1x british made sniper (dont know its name)
> 1x makarov
> 1x Beretta Over and under shotgun
> 1x PPSH
> 
> etc....
> 
> 
> Winchester defender... i have one that belonged to my grandfather..




Rock on! That's the ticket. 

The Saiga set me back 45,000 and the AK-104 cost me PKR 450,000.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Icarus said:


> Rock on! That's the ticket.
> 
> The Saiga set me back 45,000 and the AK-104 cost me PKR 450,000.



A relative of mine got a "darra" made automatic (burst mode) shotgun with drum mag...for 30,000.... i thought saiga must be worth 70-80K....... also sir is the "auto" version of saiga 12 available in Pakistan? Also my father bought a AK-103 for less than 270K...


Saiga 12 auto:
http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...ZQX-d292GZoMEecpQ&sig2=cp2MTPfNOTYjbGQEQrRQLg


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## Icarus

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> A relative of mine got a "darra" made automatic (burst mode) shotgun with drum mag...for 30,000.... i thought saiga must be worth 70-80K....... also sir is the "auto" version of saiga 12 available in Pakistan?
> 
> 
> Saiga 12 auto:
> http://www.google.com.pk/url?sa=t&r...ZQX-d292GZoMEecpQ&sig2=cp2MTPfNOTYjbGQEQrRQLg




There's a semi-auto, the one I had. Can't say for the full auto.


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## forcetrip

My next weapon will definitely be the vepr 12. Not a big shotgun fan.


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## Kompromat

ICARUS. Is HK-416 available in Pakistan yet , if so how much would it cost and where ?

I have 
1X.Beretta 92fs 
1X Beretta 12 gauge semi auto sports/hunting shotgun 
1X Original Russian Ak-74
1X Chinese 222
2X Norinco TT .30

Craving to get my hands on the HK.416

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## Kompromat

As a matter of general knowledge Pakistani civilians own 80 million weapons.

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## forcetrip

Aeronaut said:


> ICARUS. Is HK-416 available in Pakistan yet , if so how much would it cost and where ?
> 
> I have
> 1X.Beretta 92fs
> 1X Beretta 12 gauge semi auto sports/hunting shotgun
> 1X Original Russian Ak-74
> 1X Chinese 222
> 2X Norinco TT .30
> 
> Craving to get my hands on the HK.416



that is probably my first question on this forum back in the day and the answer to that is .. none I have seen so far. Probably a .22 by Umarex is around.


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## John Doe

I feel that the posts above, though very interesting, are not what this thread is about. The OP wants to compare desi weapons. 

If you guys have seen the film "Gangs of Wasseypur" , it shows how the tamancha maker warns against using bicycle frame tubes and asks for truck steering rods for making his guns. Still they keep blowing up!

I feel that the posts above, though very interesting, are not what this thread is about. The OP wants to compare desi weapons. 

If you guys have seen the film "Gangs of Wasseypur" , it shows how the tamancha maker warns against using bicycle frame tubes and asks for truck steering rods for making his guns. Still they keep blowing up!

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## forcetrip

Well in that case I beg everyone's leave. I do not think I am brave enough to operate our local beauties.

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## RiazHaq

Pakistan has a long history of arms manufacturing as a cottage industry. The dusty little town of Darra Adam Khel,only a half-hour drive from Peshawar, reminds visitors of America's Wild West. The craftsmen of this town are manufacturers and suppliers of small arms to the tribal residents of the nation's Federally Administered Tribal Areas who carry weapons as part of their ancient culture. The skilled craftsmen of FATA make revolvers, automatic pistols, shotguns and AK-47 rifles. Until five years ago, the list also had items such as anti-personnel mines, sub-machine guns, small cannons and even rocket launchers. Pakistani government has forced the tribesmen to stop making heavy assault weapons to try and prevent the Taliban and Al Qaeda from getting access to such weapons.

Pakistan Ordnance Factory makes highly sophisticated high-tech guns like POF Eye which is capable of shooting around corners and launching grenades in urban combat. 







Haq's Musings: Pakistan's Defense Industry Going High Tech

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## Thorough Pro

Sorry Pak (Darra) made guns can't match with indian made guns in quality and asthetics......





angeldust said:


> Wow! Man that list without pictures is like the roster list of a Victoria's Secret catwalk.
> 
> But actually what you have listed are all firang guns. Impressive nonetheless but not what really impressed me.
> 
> See this is what we make here in the villages in India, variously called katta, ghoda, tamancha, etc. :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the variety (country made guns) I was talking about.


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## Fazlu

Thorough Pro said:


> Sorry Pak (Darra) made guns can't match with indian made guns in quality and asthetics......


 
In India it is next to impossible for civilians to possess guns.


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## Thorough Pro

Here you go.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/07/2012733533804139.html

http://khyberarms.wetpaint.com/

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## Leader

Icarus said:


> Yes, exactly the same. I had to sell it when I came back because it was too much of a hassle trying to obtain a license for a sniper rifle in Islamabad.
> Right now I own:
> 
> 1) 2x AMD-65
> 2) 1x Ceska Brno Shotgun
> 3) 2x Hatsan Escort Semi Automatic Shotguns
> 4) 1x Baikal Shotgun (Model written in Russian)
> 5) 1x Norinco CF-98
> 6) 1x Taurus PT-92
> 7) 2x Astra Fircats
> 8) 1x Remington 1100 Shotgun
> Previously Owned:
> 
> 1) Saiga 12 Shotgun
> 2) Walther G22
> 3) AK-104
> 4) RPK-74
> 5) Winchester Defender



And I dont even have a water pistol


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## harpoon

Icarus said:


> Yes, exactly the same. I had to sell it when I came back because it was too much of a hassle trying to obtain a license for a sniper rifle in Islamabad.
> Right now I own:
> 
> 1) 2x AMD-65
> 2) 1x Ceska Brno Shotgun
> 3) 2x Hatsan Escort Semi Automatic Shotguns
> 4) 1x Baikal Shotgun (Model written in Russian)
> 5) 1x Norinco CF-98
> 6) 1x Taurus PT-92
> 7) 2x Astra Fircats
> 8) 1x Remington 1100 Shotgun
> Previously Owned:
> 
> 1) Saiga 12 Shotgun
> 2) Walther G22
> 3) AK-104
> 4) RPK-74
> 5) Winchester Defender



There was a discussion in another thread about how superior is Pakistan Police armed when compared to Indian Police. With mini armories like this in possession of Pakistani Civilians, its just logical that Pakistan Police gets armed with atleast an AK 47.



Leader said:


> And I dont even have a water pistol



It seems you are the exception and not rule when it comes to Pakistanis owning guns in this forum.


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## forcetrip

If anyone has any info on local blade makers that would be great. Some nice steel without that import price.

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## angeldust

John Doe said:


> I feel that the posts above, though very interesting, are not what this thread is about. The OP wants to compare desi weapons.
> 
> If you guys have seen the film "Gangs of Wasseypur" , it shows how the tamancha maker warns against using bicycle frame tubes and asks for truck steering rods for making his guns. Still they keep blowing up!



Yeah you are right actually - that;s why I named the thread Guns of Pakistan.

The guns I saw in the documentary looked so original, that I was left wondering at the huge talent and potential there is in such poor iliterate untrained people working in such basic surroundings with such archaic techology and tools (look at the lathes and vices and drills man ..... they are using their hands to grind and polish the surfaces that come out all blued like the originals). Mind boggling.

Any other country in the world, these guys would be highly paid artisans or shp floor managers in huge factories. Take our mechanics for example. The anna who repairs punctures. Or the guy who trues wheel rims and spokes.

Here we pay 50 bucks for a puncture. 80 bucks for a rim out. Spoked ("laced") wheels are high art and cost a bomb to balance abroad. A couple of biker friends from Australia were psyched at how good our guys were and how little we payed them.



RiazHaq said:


> Pakistan has a long history of arms manufacturing as a cottage industry. The dusty little town of Darra Adam Khel,only a half-hour drive from Peshawar, reminds visitors of America's Wild West. The craftsmen of this town are manufacturers and suppliers of small arms to the tribal residents of the nation's Federally Administered Tribal Areas who carry weapons as part of their ancient culture. The skilled craftsmen of FATA make revolvers, automatic pistols, shotguns and AK-47 rifles. Until five years ago, the list also had items such as anti-personnel mines, sub-machine guns, small cannons and even rocket launchers. Pakistani government has forced the tribesmen to stop making heavy assault weapons to try and prevent the Taliban and Al Qaeda from getting access to such weapons.



Thnks man. I was hoping you guys had some photos of the locally made guns. Or the process. I hear they make exact replicas of the ammo too. A package deal!


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## Icarus

Aeronaut said:


> ICARUS. Is HK-416 available in Pakistan yet , if so how much would it cost and where ?
> 
> I have
> 1X.Beretta 92fs
> 1X Beretta 12 gauge semi auto sports/hunting shotgun
> 1X Original Russian Ak-74
> 1X Chinese 222
> 2X Norinco TT .30
> 
> Craving to get my hands on the HK.416




I've got plenty of experience combing the Arms markets of Peshawar, Dir, Malakand and Bajaur. Never saw an HK-416. Seeing as an M-4 will set you back PKR 800,000. I'm guessing you'll get an HK-416 (If you find one) for about PKR 1.5 Million.



Leader said:


> And I dont even have a water pistol



Have 3 of those too......lol



harpoon said:


> There was a discussion in another thread about how superior is Pakistan Police armed when compared to Indian Police. With mini armories like this in possession of Pakistani Civilians, its just logical that Pakistan Police gets armed with atleast an AK 47.
> 
> 
> 
> It seems you are the exception and not rule when it comes to Pakistanis owning guns in this forum.




Although most people have a pistol around them, having such a vast armoury is not everybody's game. Having the amount of firepower that I and Pakistani Nationalist pack is difficult because:

1) You need plenty of licenses for which you need friends in the civil services or you need to be a military man.
2) These arms make for plenty of tax, you need to be wealthy enough to pay thousands per license per annum.
3) You may be asked to justify the reason for those guns, exactly why I had to sell off my Dragunov.



angeldust said:


> Yeah you are right actually - that;s why I named the thread Guns of Pakistan.
> 
> The guns I saw in the documentary looked so original, that I was left wondering at the huge talent and potential there is in such poor iliterate untrained people working in such basic surroundings with such archaic techology and tools (look at the lathes and vices and drills man ..... they are using their hands to grind and polish the surfaces that come out all blued like the originals). Mind boggling.
> 
> Any other country in the world, these guys would be highly paid artisans or shp floor managers in huge factories. Take our mechanics for example. The anna who repairs punctures. Or the guy who trues wheel rims and spokes.
> 
> Here we pay 50 bucks for a puncture. 80 bucks for a rim out. Spoked ("laced") wheels are high art and cost a bomb to balance abroad. A couple of biker friends from Australia were psyched at how good our guys were and how little we payed them.



The point here is that Darra guns are not a special breed of gun like the Indian Katta which is unique in it's making. Darra guns are very detailed clone of other more popular clones. I had a friend who bought a desert eagle from Darra for PKR 5000, he compared it with an original and found that there was absolutely no way you could tell the two apart!

Dara made M-4s:










Ack-Ack Anyone?





Visitors catch the Dara Fever, the chap at your right has never held a pistol before in his life.





Handmade Ammo:





Meticulous Handiwork:

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## angeldust

Icarus said:


> The point here is that Darra guns are not a special breed of gun like the Indian Katta which is unique in it's making. Darra guns are very detailed clone of other more popular clones. I had a friend who bought a desert eagle from Darra for PKR 5000, he compared it with an original and found that there was absolutely no way you could tell the two apart!



Thanks for the photos Icarus (can't find the Thank button on your post) .... amazing! 

That itself is an art. A gun is a pretty complicated thing when compared to a knife, and even the best copies of the Swiss Army Knife (Victorinox) have not yet been able to copy their trademark "click" when you shut it.

Do these also work as good as the originals? From what you said earlier, and forcetrip's reluctance, apparently not.

Darra 9 mm "Killer"

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## harpoon

How about quality? Does Darra guns works at par with the originals.


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## Icarus

angeldust said:


> Thanks for the photos Icarus (can't find the Thank button on your post) .... amazing!
> 
> That itself is an art. A gun is a pretty complicated thing when compared to a knife, and even the best copies of the Swiss Army Knife (Victorinox) have not yet been able to copy their trademark "click" when you shut it.
> 
> Do these also work as good as the originals? From what you said earlier, and forcetrip's reluctance, apparently not.
> 
> Darra 9 mm "Killer"




They work well enough but will have a shorter service life than the originals. However, even my original CZ-100 was shooting two inches south-east after 2 years of active war, so I guess it just has to do with wearing of the gun's mechanism. For PKR 5000 however, the gun is easily replaceable and the repairs are dirt cheap. Imagine PKR 1200 for a new slide on a Dara TT!

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## forcetrip

The amount of FTE's and FTF's are just mind boggling.. They look extremely good .. Some of them you couldn't tell the difference between an original and a local. Once you pop that spring and roam your hand on the parts even a blind guy would point out the right one. But to be honest, they arnt that bad. They work and are reliable according to their price.

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## JonAsad

Aeronaut said:


> As a matter of general knowledge Pakistani civilians own 80 million weapons.


 
that saves us even from the amrikans -


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## Kompromat

An interesting fact is that Pakistani civilians have almost 77 weapons for every Indian soldier.

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## 45'22'

Aeronaut said:


> An interesting fact is that Pakistani civilians have almost 77 weapons for every Indian soldier.


*chalo acha hai ki India Pakistan nahi hai
otherwise the Indian civilians would be having almost 77 weapons for every world soldier*

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## mjnaushad

Aeronaut said:


> An interesting fact is that Pakistani civilians have almost 77 weapons for every Indian soldier.



And i just own 1  9 mm star ...... and haven't used it in 5 years..... Last two shots i fired were 5 years ago when in emergency i wasn't able to find key and I shot the lock (Which didn't work btw and I hurt my foot )

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## AsianLion




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