# Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10, 10 times



## lawxx

Vietnam SU - 30 by J - 10 Lock 10 times
News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
According to him: Vietnam June 13 exercises, j-10 in the South Vietnamese Air Force over the lock, "Thang Long" division of a SU-30 four-plane formation in Viet Nam can not find the J-10's case, J -10 with the fire control radar to lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked s-30 at least twice. At the same time, also cut more aircraft formation with the ground command center of the radio communications, and forcibly inserted into the communication channel, and more pilots on the good-neighborly friendly relations with the Chinese started a warm and amicable discussion.

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"Pupu" the contents of the original words:


> &#23601;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#26143;&#26399;&#21069;&#36234;&#20891;&#21319;&#40857;&#24072;&#30340;&#37027;&#20960;&#26550;&#24754;&#20652;&#30340;&#33487;-30&#34987;&#31354;2&#24072;&#30340;&#27516;-10&#22823;&#20081;&#22904;&#37027;&#27425;&#65311;&#19981;&#22909;&#24847;&#24605;&#65292;&#36830;&#32493;&#34987;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#39134;&#26426;&#38145;&#23450;&#21313;&#20960;&#27425;&#65292;&#25630;&#21040;&#20154;&#23478;&#36234;&#21335;&#39134;&#34892;&#21592;&#20960;&#20046;&#20007;&#22833;&#20102;&#20449;&#24515;&#65292;&#25105;&#30475;&#19981;&#20986;&#36825;&#21483;&#21483;&#26495;&#65311;&#21483;&#22905;&#22920;&#30340;&#36234;&#21335;&#24335;&#21483;&#26149;&#36824;&#24046;&#19981;&#22810;&#65281;





> &#22079;&#22079;&#65281;&#19981;&#29992;&#21040;&#22788;&#25171;&#21548;&#65292;&#21435;&#26032;&#21326;&#31038;&#20891;&#20998;&#31038;&#38543;&#20415;&#25214;&#20010;&#24178;&#27963;&#30340;&#38382;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#20182;&#20204;&#30340;&#35760;&#32773;&#21018;&#21018;&#32467;&#26463;&#23545;&#31354;2S&#30340;&#19987;&#35775;&#12290;
> 
> &#32780;&#19988;&#25105;&#36824;&#21487;&#20197;&#25552;&#37266;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#20174;&#24403;&#24180;&#21442;&#21152;&#21033;&#21073;-10&#34892;&#21160;&#65292;&#20877;&#21040;2008&#24180;9&#26376;&#20197;&#21518;&#65292;&#24191;&#31354;&#27599;&#38548;&#19968;&#27573;&#26102;&#38388;&#23601;&#20250;&#32452;&#32455;&#30001;11&#12289;10&#31561;&#20027;&#25112;&#26426;&#22411;&#32452;&#25104;&#30340;&#25112;&#24441;&#24033;&#33322;&#26426;&#32676;&#22312;&#31354;&#20013;&#21152;&#27833;&#26426;&#21644;&#30005;&#23376;&#25112;&#39134;&#26426;&#30340;&#25903;&#25588;&#19979;&#21040;&#35199;&#27801;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#38468;&#36817;&#36716;&#24736;&#65292;&#36234;&#21335;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#20160;&#20040;&#21319;&#40857;&#12289;&#20061;&#40857;&#24072;&#36830;&#20182;&#22920;&#20010;&#24433;&#23376;&#37117;&#19981;&#25954;&#29616;&#65281;
> 
> &#20891;&#20998;&#31038;&#27809;&#20851;&#31995;&#30340;&#65292;&#31354;2&#24072;&#27809;&#20154;&#30340;&#20063;&#19981;&#25171;&#32039;&#65292;&#26377;&#20851;&#31995;&#30340;&#21435;&#25214;&#26412;&#12298;&#24191;&#24030;&#20891;&#21306;&#31354;&#20891;&#21382;&#21490;&#22238;&#30520;&#12299;&#22909;&#22909;&#30475;&#30475;&#12290;





> &#25105;&#36824;&#21487;&#20197;&#21578;&#35785;&#20320;&#20204;&#19968;&#20010;&#25105;&#21018;&#21018;&#24471;&#21040;&#30340;&#28040;&#24687;&#65292;&#36234;&#21335;&#29482;&#29473;&#20204;&#36825;&#27425;&#25214;&#21040;&#20420;&#27494;&#20844;&#21496;&#65292;&#35201;&#27714;&#25552;&#21319;&#20854;&#33487;&#31995;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#21644;&#20420;&#21046;&#38450;&#31354;&#31995;&#32479;&#30340;&#30005;&#23376;&#23545;&#25239;&#33021;&#21147;&#65292;&#20351;&#20043;&#33021;&#22815;&#25239;&#20987;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#30005;&#23376;&#25112;&#65292;&#20420;&#26041;&#32473;&#20182;&#20204;&#24320;&#20986;&#20102;&#19968;&#20010;&#22825;&#25991;&#25968;&#23383;&#65292;&#36234;&#21335;&#20154;&#29616;&#22312;&#21448;&#25171;&#31639;&#21435;&#25214;&#38463;&#19977;&#24110;&#24537;&#20102;&#12290;
> 
> &#36825;&#37324;&#23601;&#35828;&#19968;&#21477;&#65292;&#23601;&#29616;&#22312;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#30005;&#23376;&#25112;&#33021;&#21147;&#21644;&#25112;&#26415;&#25171;&#20987;&#33021;&#21147;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#20420;&#32599;&#26031;&#31354;&#20891;&#33258;&#24049;&#37117;&#36319;&#19981;&#19978;&#65292;&#36824;&#24110;&#20182;&#22920;&#36234;&#21335;&#25630;&#65311;&#65281;&#33267;&#20110;&#38463;&#19977;&#21756;&#65281;
> 
> &#26412;BKC&#34429;&#28982;&#19968;&#30452;&#23815;&#25308;BKC&#65292;&#20294;&#26159;&#22312;&#36825;&#20123;&#20107;&#24773;&#19978;&#65292;&#24819;&#19981;HKC&#37117;&#38590;&#65281;





> &#31354;&#20891;&#32452;&#32455;&#22823;&#26426;&#32676;&#36828;&#36212;&#35199;&#27801;&#21644;&#21335;&#27801;&#24033;&#33322;&#65292;CCTV&#37117;&#19981;&#30693;&#36947;&#25253;&#36807;&#22810;&#23569;&#27425;&#20102;&#65292;&#20063;&#23601;&#20320;&#36825;&#31181;&#20154;&#35270;&#32780;&#19981;&#35265;&#12290;&#33267;&#20110;&#20160;&#20040;&#38548;&#19977;&#24046;&#20116;&#38145;&#23450;&#36234;&#21335;&#20891;&#26426;&#65292;&#20320;&#20498;&#26159;&#25226;&#25105;&#36825;&#35805;&#32473;&#25214;&#20986;&#26469;&#65281;&#33258;&#24049;&#24515;&#24577;&#38452;&#26263;&#65292;&#30475;&#21040;&#28857;&#38451;&#20809;&#33258;&#28982;&#21463;&#19981;&#40479;&#65292;&#36825;&#20063;&#26159;&#20154;&#20043;&#24120;&#24773;&#12290;&#21578;&#35785;&#20320;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#26426;&#32676;&#36807;&#35199;&#27801;&#12289;&#21335;&#27801;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#26159;&#19981;&#21487;&#33021;&#38145;&#23450;&#36234;&#21335;&#20891;&#26426;&#30340;&#65292;&#22240;&#20026;&#20182;&#20204;&#30340;&#39134;&#26426;&#26681;&#26412;&#23601;&#19981;&#25954;&#36807;&#26469;&#65281;
> 
> &#33267;&#20110;&#29992;&#28180;&#33337;&#21644;&#28023;&#30417;&#25910;&#25342;&#36234;&#21335;&#20154;&#65292;&#37027;&#26159;&#26007;&#20105;&#26041;&#24335;&#21644;&#26041;&#27861;&#65281;&#26082;&#28982;&#26085;&#26412;&#20154;&#21487;&#20197;&#29992;&#28023;&#19978;&#20445;&#23433;&#21381;&#26469;&#25318;&#25130;&#25105;&#20204;&#21435;&#38035;&#40060;&#23707;&#30340;&#33337;&#21482;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#20026;&#20160;&#20040;&#19981;&#21487;&#20197;&#21160;&#29992;&#20934;&#20891;&#20107;&#21147;&#37327;&#65311;&#22312;&#21335;&#27801;&#30340;&#20105;&#22842;&#26007;&#20105;&#19978;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#26159;&#24046;&#20102;&#19968;&#27493;&#65292;&#20294;&#37027;&#24182;&#19981;&#34920;&#31034;&#25105;&#20204;&#20170;&#22825;&#23601;&#20250;&#26080;&#21160;&#20110;&#34935;&#12290;&#36824;&#21487;&#20197;&#21578;&#35785;&#20320;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#28023;&#30417;&#21644;&#28180;&#25919;&#20043;&#25152;&#20197;&#25954;&#22312;&#37027;&#37324;&#25307;&#25671;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#22240;&#20026;&#19981;&#36828;&#22788;&#26377;&#25105;&#20204;&#28023;&#20891;&#30340;&#20891;&#33328;&#20445;&#39550;&#25252;&#33322;&#12290;
> 
> &#33267;&#20110;&#31354;2&#24072;&#36817;&#26085;&#38145;&#23450;&#36234;&#20891;&#30340;&#33487;-30&#65292;&#25105;&#25954;&#22312;&#36825;&#37324;&#25918;&#36825;&#20010;&#28040;&#24687;&#20986;&#26469;&#65292;&#27809;&#26377;&#25226;&#25569;&#30340;&#35805;&#25105;&#26159;&#19981;&#20250;&#35828;&#30340;&#65281;



"""Pupu" the last paragraph of the original meaning of words is:the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock.Vietnam combat pilot almost lost confidence. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.,



> &#23601;&#22312;&#36234;&#21335;&#25630;&#28436;&#20064;&#30340;&#37027;&#20960;&#22825;&#65288;&#21069;&#21518;&#33050;&#30340;&#20851;&#31995;&#65289;&#65292;&#31354;&#20108;&#24072;&#30340;&#27516;10&#22312;&#21335;&#28023;&#19978;&#31354;&#36718;&#22904;&#20102;&#36234;&#21335;&#31354;&#20891;&#21319;&#40857;&#24072;&#30340;&#19968;&#20010;SU30&#22235;&#26426;&#32534;&#38431;&#65292;&#22312;&#36234;&#26041;&#26681;&#26412;&#26080;&#27861;&#21457;&#29616;&#30340;&#27516;10&#30340;&#24773;&#20917;&#19979;&#65292;&#29992;&#28779;&#25511;&#38647;&#36798;&#25226;&#20182;&#20204;&#38145;&#23450;&#20102;&#21313;&#20960;&#27425;&#65292;&#27599;&#26550;&#36234;&#26426;&#33267;&#23569;&#34987;&#38145;&#23450;&#20004;&#27425;&#12290;&#19982;&#27492;&#21516;&#26102;&#65292;&#36824;&#20999;&#26029;&#20102;&#36234;&#26426;&#32534;&#38431;&#19982;&#22320;&#38754;&#25351;&#25381;&#20013;&#24515;&#30340;&#26080;&#32447;&#30005;&#36890;&#35759;&#65292;&#24182;&#24378;&#34892;&#25554;&#20837;&#20854;&#36890;&#35759;&#39057;&#36947;&#12289;&#19982;&#36234;&#26426;&#39134;&#34892;&#21592;&#23601;&#20013;&#36234;&#30566;&#37051;&#21451;&#22909;&#20851;&#31995;&#38382;&#39064;&#23637;&#24320;&#20102;&#28909;&#28872;&#32780;&#21644;&#30566;&#30340;&#25506;&#35752;&#12290;
> 
> 
> &#36716;&#36733;&#26412;&#25991;&#26159;&#20986;&#20110;&#20256;&#36882;&#26356;&#22810;&#20449;&#24687;&#20043;&#30446;&#30340;&#65292;&#24182;&#19981;&#24847;&#21619;&#30528;&#36190;&#21516;&#20854;&#35266;&#28857;&#25110;&#35777;&#23454;&#20854;&#25551;&#36848;&#12290;
> 
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> &#20026;&#20102;&#35777;&#23454;&#27492;&#28040;&#24687;&#30340;&#26469;&#28304;&#65292;&#26412;&#20154;&#27983;&#35272;&#20102;&#21253;&#25324;&#20013;&#21326;&#65292;&#32593;&#26131;&#65292;&#39134;&#25196;&#65292;&#36229;&#22823;&#65292;&#32593;&#22825;&#65292;&#32654;&#35328;&#65292;&#22825;&#28079;&#31561;&#31561;&#24456;&#22810;&#35770;&#22363;&#12290;&#29616;&#22312;&#21487;&#20197;&#32943;&#23450;&#36825;&#26159;&#19968;&#26465;&#30495;&#23454;&#28040;&#24687;&#65292;&#20986;&#22788;&#20998;&#21035;&#26469;&#33258;&#20960;&#20010;&#22312;&#20891;&#22363;&#20844;&#35748;&#27604;&#36739;&#26435;&#23041;&#30340;&#22823;&#20332;&#12290;
> 
> 
> &#20854;&#20013;&#36229;&#22823;&#21644;&#39134;&#25196;&#30340;&#21452;&#26009;&#36149;&#23486;PUPU&#22823;&#22823;&#22312;&#19968;&#27425;&#22238;&#22797;&#20013;&#26159;&#36825;&#20040;&#35828;&#30340;
> 
> 
> &#21483;&#26495;&#65311;&#65281;&#20320;&#35828;&#30340;&#33707;&#38750;&#23601;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#26143;&#26399;&#21069;&#36234;&#20891;&#21319;&#40857;&#24072;&#30340;&#37027;&#20960;&#26550;&#24754;&#20652;&#30340;&#33487;-30&#34987;&#31354;2&#24072;&#30340;&#27516;-10&#22823;&#20081;&#22904;&#37027;&#27425;&#65311;&#19981;&#22909;&#24847;&#24605;&#65292;&#36830;&#32493;&#34987;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#39134;&#26426;&#38145;&#23450;&#21313;&#20960;&#27425;&#65292;&#25630;&#21040;&#20154;&#23478;&#36234;&#21335;&#39134;&#34892;&#21592;&#20960;&#20046;&#20007;&#22833;&#20102;&#20449;&#24515;&#65292;&#25105;&#30475;&#19981;&#20986;&#36825;&#21483;&#21483;&#26495;&#65311;&#21483;&#22905;&#22920;&#30340;&#36234;&#21335;&#24335;&#21483;&#26149;&#36824;&#24046;&#19981;&#22810;&#65281;
> 
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> &#32780;&#32593;&#22825;&#36164;&#28145;&#22823;&#22823;&#21271;&#20140;&#32769;&#33457;&#29483;&#26159;&#36825;&#20040;&#35828;&#30340;&#65306;
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> &#21335;&#28023;&#25171;&#19981;&#25171;&#65292;&#20854;&#23454;&#26089;&#23601;&#26126;&#30830;&#20102;&#30340;&#65292;&#35813;&#25171;&#30340;&#26102;&#20505;&#19968;&#28857;&#19981;&#25163;&#36719;&#65292;&#25171;&#23601;&#25171;&#20010;&#24443;&#24213;&#12290;&#20320;&#20204;&#35201;&#35828;&#20102;&#65292;&#20320;&#32769;&#33457;&#29483;&#20309;&#20197;&#22914;&#27492;&#35328;&#35821;&#65292;&#35760;&#24471;&#21435;&#24180;&#26377;&#19977;&#22823;&#33328;&#38431;&#40784;&#32858;&#21335;&#28023;&#19987;&#25171;&#23548;&#24377;&#30340;&#20107;&#19981;&#65292;&#24050;&#32463;&#32473;&#20102;&#32467;&#35770;&#20102;&#12290;&#36825;&#20010;&#23601;&#19981;&#35201;&#20877;&#20105;&#21557;&#19981;&#20241;&#24687;&#21949;&#21834;&#12290;
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> &#38382;&#39064;&#26159;&#65292;&#29616;&#22312;&#20986;&#29616;&#30340;&#36825;&#20010;&#23616;&#21183;&#65292;&#35753;&#20154;&#30475;&#19981;&#36807;&#65292;&#20284;&#26377;&#38750;&#25171;&#19981;&#21487;&#30340;&#21170;&#22836;&#65292;&#20249;&#35745;&#20204;&#20041;&#24868;&#22635;&#33210;&#21727;&#12290;
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> &#22909;&#65292;&#20474;&#26469;&#28436;&#32462;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#21482;&#20379;&#21442;&#32771;&#12290;
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> &#22312;&#21335;&#28023;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#30495;&#30340;&#27809;&#30340;&#25171;&#65292;&#20320;&#25171;&#35841;&#65311;&#21608;&#36793;&#35841;&#37117;&#32463;&#19981;&#20303;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#30340;&#23494;&#38598;&#25171;&#30340;&#25112;&#26415;&#12290;&#30495;&#30340;&#65292;&#30495;&#25214;&#19981;&#20986;&#19968;&#20010;&#26775;&#30528;&#33046;&#23376;&#36319;&#20320;&#25179;&#30340;&#20027;&#12290;&#27809;&#26377;&#28404;&#12290;&#36234;&#21335;&#65311;&#23427;&#25104;&#21527;&#65311;&#33778;&#24459;&#23486;&#65311;&#23427;&#25104;&#21527;&#65311;&#36824;&#26377;&#20854;&#20182;&#65292;&#27809;&#26377;&#23545;&#25163;&#28404;&#12290;
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> &#20320;&#35201;&#38382;&#20102;&#65292;&#37027;&#25171;&#35841;&#65311;&#21644;&#22914;&#20309;&#35299;&#20915;&#36825;&#20010;&#38382;&#39064;&#12289;
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> &#22909;&#65292;&#20474;&#21578;&#35785;&#20320;&#65292;&#32972;&#21518;&#26377;&#36229;&#22312;&#25745;&#30528;&#12290;&#25152;&#20197;&#65292;&#23567;&#22934;&#20204;&#33258;&#28982;&#35201;&#38393;&#12290;&#36825;&#20010;&#38393;&#26089;&#23601;&#26377;&#20102;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#19968;&#30452;&#22312;&#31561;&#65292;&#36825;&#20010;&#31561;&#19981;&#26159;&#31561;&#27494;&#22120;&#65292;&#32780;&#26159;&#31561;&#20320;&#26126;&#30333;&#20102;&#12290;&#21487;&#23427;&#20204;&#38750;&#19981;&#26126;&#30333;&#65292;&#38750;&#35201;&#38393;&#12290;
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> &#22909;&#21150;!
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> &#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#29609;&#28216;&#25103;&#26159;&#19990;&#30028;&#19978;&#29420;&#19968;&#20221;&#65292;&#25171;&#23567;&#23601;&#20250;&#29609;&#12290;&#21335;&#28023;&#22909;&#29609;&#30340;&#29408;&#65292;&#24656;&#24597;&#24555;&#35201;&#29609;&#20102;&#12290;
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> &#27604;&#22914;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#28779;&#20102;&#65292;&#38750;&#35201;&#29609;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#37027;&#21487;&#26159;&#30495;&#29609;&#28404;&#65292;&#19981;&#31649;&#20320;&#22810;&#22823;&#25110;&#22810;&#23567;&#65292;&#29609;&#23601;&#29609;&#21040;&#24213;&#28404;&#12290;&#26576;&#36229;&#19981;&#26159;&#25745;&#33136;&#21527;&#65311;&#22909;&#21834;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#23601;&#25171;&#33136;&#65292;&#19981;&#25171;&#25745;&#30528;&#30340;&#65292;&#21704;&#21704;&#12290;&#24656;&#24597;&#25745;&#33136;&#30340;&#27604;&#35841;&#37117;&#38590;&#21463;&#28404;&#12290;
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> &#25105;&#35828;&#30340;&#24847;&#24605;&#65292;&#20161;&#20041;&#23613;&#33267;&#12290;&#33021;&#20570;&#21040;&#36825;&#19968;&#28857;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#25105;&#23545;&#21335;&#28023;&#26377;&#20805;&#20998;&#30340;&#25226;&#25569;&#65292;&#32473;&#20320;&#26080;&#25968;&#20010;&#26426;&#20250;&#65292;&#20320;&#36824;&#26159;&#19981;&#37266;&#24735;&#12290;&#37027;&#26102;&#65292;&#23601;&#30495;&#30340;&#24320;&#28779;&#20102;&#65292;&#32943;&#23450;&#26159;&#29031;&#20474;&#35828;&#30340;&#65292;&#20843;&#20061;&#19981;&#31163;&#21313;&#65292;&#29609;&#30340;&#38750;&#24120;&#22909;&#12290;&#25745;&#33136;&#30340;&#20027;&#20799;&#26368;&#38590;&#21463;&#65292;&#25171;&#20063;&#19981;&#26159;&#65292;&#19981;&#25171;&#20063;&#19981;&#26159;&#12290;&#21704;&#21704;&#65292;&#20249;&#35745;&#20204;&#21035;&#24613;&#21727;&#12290;
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> &#33322;&#27597;&#30340;&#39064;&#36739;&#22823;&#65292;&#20474;&#24402;&#32435;&#30340;&#35828;&#65306;&#19968;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#36896;&#19981;&#36896;&#33322;&#27597;&#65292;&#36825;&#20010;&#38382;&#39064;&#24050;&#32463;&#19981;&#26159;&#38382;&#39064;&#20102;&#65307;&#20108;&#26159;&#27491;&#22312;&#25913;&#36896;&#30340;&#22312;&#22823;&#36830;&#30340;&#29926;&#33391;&#26684;&#21495;&#65292;&#26159;&#21542;&#20316;&#20026;&#20316;&#25112;&#29992;&#36884;&#65292;&#36825;&#20010;&#38382;&#39064;&#20854;&#23454;&#24050;&#32463;&#26126;&#30830;&#20102;&#65292;&#23427;&#21482;&#26159;&#25105;&#20204;&#20026;&#32487;&#32493;&#24314;&#36896;&#25105;&#20204;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#19996;&#19996;&#65292;&#31215;&#32047;&#32463;&#39564;&#21644;&#35757;&#32451;&#29992;&#12290;&#24517;&#35201;&#26102;&#65292;&#22914;&#25112;&#20105;&#24050;&#36215;&#65292;&#35757;&#32451;&#33328;&#20063;&#21516;&#26679;&#20855;&#22791;&#25112;&#26007;&#24615;&#33021;&#12290;&#19981;&#30693;&#25105;&#30340;&#35805;&#35828;&#30340;&#26126;&#30333;&#19981;&#65292;&#21621;&#21621;&#12290;&#19977;&#26159;&#25105;&#20204;&#26159;&#19981;&#26159;&#27491;&#22312;&#36896;&#25105;&#20204;&#33258;&#24049;&#30340;&#19996;&#19996;&#65292;&#22238;&#31572;&#26159;&#32943;&#23450;&#30340;&#65292;&#20063;&#26159;&#26126;&#30830;&#30340;&#12290;&#28023;&#20891;&#22312;&#31561;&#65292;&#22312;&#31561;&#36825;&#20010;&#26032;&#30340;&#19996;&#19996;&#26089;&#20123;&#20986;&#26469;&#65292;&#20154;&#25165;&#37117;&#24050;&#32463;&#20648;&#22791;&#22909;&#20102;&#12290;&#22235;&#26159;&#20320;&#19981;&#35201;&#21548;&#22806;&#23186;&#35828;&#19977;&#36947;&#22235;&#65292;&#21482;&#35201;&#22362;&#20449;&#25105;&#20204;&#33021;&#22815;&#65292;&#23601;&#34892;&#20102;&#12290;
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> &#36825;&#20010;&#24086;&#23376;&#37324;&#27963;&#25417;&#22823;&#22823;&#22238;&#22797;&#26159;&#36825;&#20040;&#35828;&#30340;&#65306;
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> &#27809;&#37027;&#20040;&#22797;&#26434;&#65292;&#35828;&#30333;&#28857;&#65292;&#23601;&#26159;&#24515;&#24213;&#19981;&#36367;&#23454;&#20102;&#65292;&#33258;&#24049;&#20063;&#25343;&#19981;&#20934;&#20102;&#12290;&#20027;&#21160;&#30340;&#36807;&#26469;&#23547;&#27714;&#27807;&#36890;&#65292;&#20063;&#24819;&#24403;&#38754;&#20146;&#32819;&#21548;&#21548;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#24577;&#24230;&#65292;&#32487;&#32780;&#23547;&#19968;&#20010;&#20445;&#35777;
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> &#34429;&#28982;&#20182;&#20204;&#22269;&#20869;&#26377;&#38459;&#21147;&#65292;&#20294;&#35753;&#20182;&#24443;&#24213;&#35748;&#24578;&#21482;&#26159;&#26102;&#38388;&#38382;&#39064;&#65292;&#33267;&#20110;&#36234;&#21335;&#20154;&#33258;&#24049;&#24590;&#20040;&#35299;&#37322;&#20182;&#20204;&#30495;&#27491;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#21033;&#30410;&#65292;&#37027;&#26159;&#20182;&#20204;&#30340;&#20107;&#65292;&#26159;&#21542;&#25226;&#22269;&#23478;&#24102;&#20837;&#25112;&#20105;&#23601;&#26159;&#31526;&#21512;&#22269;&#23478;&#21033;&#30410;&#65292;&#22240;&#20026;&#25105;&#20204;&#30830;&#23454;&#26159;&#20934;&#22791;&#22909;&#20102;&#65292;&#19981;&#26159;&#25919;&#27835;&#19978;&#30340;&#23039;&#24577;&#65292;&#26159;&#30495;&#30340;&#20934;&#22791;&#22909;&#20102;&#65292;&#21621;&#21621;
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> &#22914;&#36234;&#21335;&#20154;&#33324;&#30340;&#29436;&#23376;&#37326;&#24515;&#65292;&#39556;&#27178;&#36299;&#25160;&#65292;&#19981;&#32473;&#20182;&#28857;&#30171;&#23427;&#26159;&#35748;&#19981;&#28165;&#33258;&#25105;&#30340;&#65292;&#27809;&#26377;&#25945;&#35757;&#20182;&#26159;&#19981;&#20250;&#24605;&#32034;&#30340;
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> &#24076;&#26395;&#23427;&#36825;&#27425;&#30340;&#25112;&#26647;&#20250;&#32500;&#25345;&#20037;&#19968;&#28857;&#65292;&#25152;&#35859;&#25991;&#20154;&#25919;&#27835;&#25110;&#31934;&#33521;&#25919;&#27835;&#23545;&#23567;&#22269;&#19981;&#26159;&#19968;&#33324;&#30340;&#19981;&#36866;&#21512;&#65292;&#22826;&#36807;&#28010;&#28459;&#65292;
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> &#20182;&#20204;&#20891;&#26041;&#24212;&#35813;&#26126;&#30333;
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> &#35797;&#20102;&#21543;&#65311;&#26126;&#30333;&#20102;&#21543;&#65311;&#36824;&#24819;&#35797;&#35797;&#21527;&#65311;&#21621;&#21621;
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> &#36825;&#27425;&#30693;&#36947;&#20102;&#65292;&#20197;&#21069;&#33258;&#35748;&#20026;&#24046;&#36317;&#24456;&#22823;&#65292;&#20294;&#36824;&#19981;&#26159;&#26080;&#35299;&#65292;&#36825;&#27425;&#30475;&#30475;&#65292;&#24046;&#36317;&#19981;&#26159;&#24456;&#22823;&#65292;&#32780;&#26159;&#20113;&#27877;&#30340;&#24046;&#21035;&#65292;&#24076;&#26395;&#32473;&#20182;&#20204;&#35686;&#37266;
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> &#21621;&#21621;&#65292;&#35813;&#25970;&#25171;&#30340;&#25970;&#25171;&#20102;&#65292;&#24456;&#22810;&#37027;&#26159;&#20320;&#30475;&#19981;&#35265;&#30340;
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> &#23427;&#20204;&#24515;&#37324;&#33258;&#24049;&#26126;&#30333;&#65292;&#36825;&#20183;&#35201;&#25171;&#33258;&#24049;&#26159;&#20010;&#20160;&#20040;&#27700;&#24179;&#65292;&#36824;&#24046;&#24471;&#36828;
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> &#36890;&#36807;&#19968;&#20123;&#23454;&#25112;&#21270;&#30340;&#27807;&#36890;&#21578;&#35785;&#23427;&#20204;&#65292;&#19968;&#26080;&#36824;&#25163;&#20043;&#21147;&#26159;&#20010;&#20160;&#20040;&#28363;&#21619;
> 
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> 
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> 
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## Viva_Viet

what the hell happened with those Su 30. Russia's tech is not good enough ?? Oki, VNAF officer is in big trouble now if it true.They've bought the wrong craft. 

btw: I posted the incident in VN forum already, but no one known yet .

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## lawxx

Viva_Viet said:


> what the hell happened with those Su 30. Russia's tech is not good enough ?? Oki, VNAF officer is in big trouble now if it true.They've bought the wrong craft.
> 
> btw: I posted the incident in VN forum already, but no one known yet .


Always better to buy someone else's weapons of their own making weapons, only their weapons in order to develop a strong state.

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## lawxx

Viva_Viet said:


> what the hell happened with those Su 30. Russia's tech is not good enough ?? Oki, VNAF officer is in big trouble now if it true.They've bought the wrong craft.
> 
> btw: I posted the incident in VN forum already, but no one known yet .


It at least shows that SU-30is not good J-10

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## Viva_Viet

lawxx said:


> Always better to buy someone else create their own weapons, only you can develop a strong country.


 
VN never can create a air craft in at least 20 year ahead.So, we've better use S-30 and AAA system as the main coutermeasure system.That our strong point bro


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## lawxx

Viva_Viet said:


> VN never can create a air craft in at least 20 year ahead.So, we've better use S-30 and AAA system as the main coutermeasure system.That our strong point bro


 The amount of your SU-30 is the J-10 fire control radar locked up 10 times. And SU-30 did not find J-10
So as themselves to buy weapons never made &#8203;&#8203;weapons


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## SQ8

I believe the Chinese are using this tete-a-tete as an opportunity to test all their newer gadgets,systems and perhaps tactics operationally.

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## lawxx

"Pupu" the last paragraph of the original meaning of words is: Vietnam SU-30 by the Chinese J-10 after the lock several times. Vietnam to help them improve the Russian electronic warfare capabilities, but Russia out of the astronomical prices, so now in India to help Vietnam improve,


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## lawxx

Santro said:


> I believe the Chinese are using this tete-a-tete as an opportunity to test all their newer gadgets,systems and perhaps tactics operationally.


 
He is for Vietnam to buy Russian SU-30, but the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.

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## Viva_Viet

lawxx said:


> He is for Vietnam to buy Russian SU-30, but the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.


That why, in our defence tactic, they discuss mainly on S-300, Radar and AAA system. You have air superiority, but S-300 and AAA system will be the hardest opponent to you. VNAF is used for some Kamikaze mission only, same as during VN war


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## Zabaniyah

Viva_Viet said:


> what the hell happened with those Su 30. Russia's tech is not good enough ?? Oki, VNAF officer is in big trouble now if it true.They've bought the wrong craft.
> 
> btw: I posted the incident in VN forum already, but no one known yet .



Russian exports are usually the downgraded versions. So, they may not be as good the Russians themselves use. 

You want something more after purchase, they ask for a lot of money. I suppose China already passed that difficult stage. India already produces its own SU-30s. 

My country had to ask Germany to help upgrade its MIG-29 fleet.

S-300 and other Russian SAMs are pretty good though.

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## SQ8

Well..India would most likely offer EW upgrades to the Su-30's.
The reason why the Chinese were successful against the VN Su-30's is their own exp with the aircraft and electronics fit.
If the EW suite of the MKI is transplanted into the VN Su-30's.. the results may not be the same again.

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## rcrmj

lol, the pilot reports saying vietnam Su-30 had been locked on by Chinese J-10 more than 10 times, yet they didnt see any thing on their radar`lol

vn pilots must feel humiliated, they must thought it could not be happening as they believed they bought one of most advanced weapons``

i think vietcon will start to realise modern warfare is way out of their 70's mindset. its called information and electronic centric warfare`

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## lawxx

Santro said:


> Well..India would most likely offer EW upgrades to the Su-30's.
> The reason why the Chinese were successful against the VN Su-30's is their own exp with the aircraft and electronics fit.
> If the EW suite of the MKI is transplanted into the VN Su-30's.. the results may not be the same again.


 
But according to "pupu" saying: Chinese Air Force electronic warfare capabilities and tactical strike capability, that is, the Russian Air Force can not keep up. Not to mention India. India to help the Vietnamese find it completely useless.

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## ramu

The avionics of Su-30 MKI is tailor made for India and to some extent developed by Indians for specific requirements. Hope this exeprience India has with Israel and Russia should be useful to Vietnam


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## Viva_Viet

Zabanya said:


> Russian exports are usually the downgraded versions. So, they may not be as good the Russians themselves use.
> 
> You want something more after purchase, they ask for a lot of money. I suppose China already passed that difficult stage. India already produces its own SU-30s.
> 
> My country had to ask Germany to help upgrade its MIG-29 fleet.
> 
> S-300 and other Russian SAMs are pretty good though.


Yep, we soon seek for S-300 manufacture contract, Air craft is expensive toy , and not a good defence tool also.

btw: some time, it's good for suicide mission, enemy will get shock

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## ramu

lawxx said:


> But according to "pupu" saying: Chinese Air Force electronic warfare capabilities and tactical strike capability, that is, the Russian Air Force can not keep up. Not to mention India. India to help the Vietnamese find it completely useless.


 
It is good that we are underestimated. I like it.

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## Zabaniyah

lawxx said:


> But according to "pupu" saying: Chinese Air Force electronic warfare capabilities and tactical strike capability, that is, the Russian Air Force can not keep up. Not to mention India. India to help the Vietnamese find it completely useless.


 
They can ask India. After all, they are pretty good with all the avionics stuff. The SU-30MKI's avionics and software were all contributed by India during the overall development of the aircraft.

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## Viva_Viet

rcrmj said:


> lol, the pilot reports saying vietnam Su-30 had been locked on by Chinese J-10 more than 10 times, yet they didnt see any thing on their radar`lol
> 
> vn pilots must feel humiliated, they must thought it could not be happening as they believed they bought one of most advanced weapons``
> 
> i think vietcon will start to realise modern warfare is way out of their 70's mindset. its called information and electronic centric warfare`


 
No, he doesn't need to feel humiliated,it's not our strong point , it's expensive and ineffective for small country . Your real opponent is S-300 and AAA system 

btw: We surely use air force for Kamikaze mission , such as shoot dow oil tanker craft or AWACS


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## rcrmj

Santro said:


> Well..India would most likely offer EW upgrades to the Su-30's.
> The reason why the Chinese were successful against the VN Su-30's is their own exp with the aircraft and electronics fit.
> If the EW suite of the MKI is transplanted into the VN Su-30's.. the results may not be the same again.


 
i dont think that will be easy``the chinese J-10s were supported by KJ-2000 or KJ-200 AWACs, so they know vn's Su-30s position even far away from J-10's maxium radar detection range on classic 10m2 RSC signiture targets. 

so J-10 had the advantage and time to maneuvor to most desirable altitude, speed, angle of attack and degree of radar scanning area, so these elements together can help J-10's radars to produce optimum results.

Su-30 and even MKI has similar or a bit longer radar detection range, but that will only achieve when MKI reaches those requirements i listed before, so without AWACs and other AW methodologies, it is unlikely even when the role changes to MKI can produce any better result against J-10 when supported by AWACs`

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## lawxx

Zabanya said:


> They can ask India. After all, they are pretty good with all the avionics stuff. The SU-30MKI's avionics and software were all contributed by India during the overall development of the aircraft.


 
But according to "pupu" argument: Even if India to help Vietnam, that is without any effect.

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## lcloo

J-10 were used against SU-27/J-11 in PLAAF air combat exercises and won hands down, so it is no surprise VAF's SU-27SKUBK and SU-30MK2V were no mach for J-10 since VAF jets are likely having similar avionic and radar as early PLAAF SU-27/J-11.

Unless VAF upgrade to SU-35 radar and avionic suites, they can never match PLAAF. Even with export version of SU-35 electronic suites installed on SU-27 or SU-30MK2V there is still no certainty that VAF can beat the latest J-10B, J-11B and J-15.

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## lawxx

lcloo said:


> J-10 were used against SU-27/J-11 in PLAAF air combat exercises and won hands down, so it is no surprise VAF's SU-27SKUBK and SU-30MK2V were no mach for J-10 since VAF jets are likely having similar avionic and radar as early PLAAF SU-27/J-11.
> 
> Unless VAF upgrade to SU-35 radar and avionic suites, they can never match PLAAF. Even with export version of SU-35 electronic suites installed on SU-27 or SU-30MK2V there is still no certainty that VAF can beat the latest J-10B, J-11B and J-15.


 
But according to "pupu" saying: Chinese Air Force electronic warfare capabilities and tactical strike capability, the Russian Air Force can not keep up

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## Rechoice

I copy and past here for reference of copy J 10:



> The Chinese air force personnel, fighter Su-30MK2 too dependent on supplies from Russia, especially spare parts. In J-11 is a "fake" almost all Su-27 aircraft, although many modern features but still need improvement. Therefore, the J-10 by default become the "darling" of the country's air force.
> 
> J-10 is a lightweight multipurpose fighter an engine that can perform all tasks for air, for land in all weather conditions. The aircraft was designed by aircraft Institute Chengdu (611 Institute) design and manufacturing company Chengdu Aircraft (CAC) production.
> 
> J-10 official military service in China in 2004 with two versions of J10 and J10S (plane two seat trainer). February / 2009, China has announced a version of J-10B is said to have many improvements over the original J-10. There is fruits of cooperation between China and Israel, Pakistan and Russia.
> In the early 1980s, when the planes first generation of Russian and American born (as F-16 and Mig-29), China has decided to design even a generation aircraft for their own based on the programs bearing with numbering 8610. However, when relations between the USSR and China was more intense in consequences of border conflict in 1969. Therefore, the project 8610 was a standstill for years for not getting the help of technology from the Soviet Union. Early in 1990, winning the support of a permanent member of the Security Council United Nations, Israel secretly handed over to China many design technology program designed lightweight fighter, it was destroyed his left, there was the Lavi, including design and aerodynamic shape of the electronic flight control software. Also, to help on the issue of nuclear weapons, Pakistan transferred to China F-16 for dissection study. The relationship between China and Israel did not last long, to March 12/1991, under U.S. pressure, Israel to stop all cooperation and technology transfer to China when the designs of the PW1120 engine and the radar systems have not been transferred. While seemingly difficult to continue to block the project step 8610, the Soviet Union disintegrated. Good luck to China as Russia agreed to provide China's Al-31F engines with the design of radar to China to complete his plane.
> After a crash of a J-10 prototype in 1995, the project was on hold for several years to review the test, the first time J-10 took off on 03/22/1998 . After several successful trial with six test aircraft, J-10 was mass produced and officially produced and combat duty in May 7 / 2004 on the payroll of Air Force Regiment No. 132, 44 Division stationed at air bases Lu Liang, Shanxi Province, China.
> The J-10 is designed as consecutive tail delta wing with a pair of small wings at the front Canard, similar to the Eurofighter Typhoon of the European countries or JAS-39 Gripen of Sweden. This design helps stabilize the plane and less area than the design with the traditional rear wing. Compare J-10 with a number of aircraft of the same design were produced before its JAS-39 Gripen - Sweden and Eurofighter Typhoon. Single air intake for engine designed rectangle located at the bottom of the aircraft belly. This design creates a big gap between the air intakes and body before making the aircraft easy to lose stability when flying at high speed. In the version of J-10B, the manufacturer announced old style gas inlet was removed and replaced by air intakes diffuse type ultrasound (DSI). This design of the J-10 aircraft that are less stable and require flight control software complexity, but in return the aircraft to be maneuvered at great speed high. Inlets of the J-10A located around the front plane a very destabilizing. Type of air intakes must reinforce the body with 6 small metal bar attached to the body. However, the level of binding as well as "easy to loose", especially when planes fly at high speed. J-10B overcomes this drawback by redesigned air intakes under the DSI model.
Click to expand...


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## S-A-B-E-R->

ramu said:


> The avionics of Su-30 MKI is tailor made for India and to some extent developed by Indians for specific requirements. Hope this exeprience India has with Israel and Russia should be useful to Vietnam


 
hence the J10 B my frind


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## Way to go

Viva_Viet said:


> what the hell happened with those Su 30. Russia's tech is not good enough ?? Oki, VNAF officer is in big trouble now if it true.They've bought the wrong craft.
> 
> btw: I posted the incident in VN forum already, but no one known yet .




This is a fake news. I'm 99.9999999999% sure. Don't take it seriously.

lawxx, can you stop spreading rumors?

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## DarK-LorD

Way to go said:


> This is a fake news. I'm 99.9999999999% sure. Don't take it seriously.
> 
> lawxx, can you stop spreading rumors?


yeah,He has already started another BS thread.


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## houshanghai

this is very normal. PLAAF J10 VS PLAAF J11 in the air fighting exercise. 
The result is j10* 13:1* defeat at j11.
j10 defeat j11 videos;

http://static.youku.com/v1.0.0166/v...MTgtai0xMC1mYy0yMC1tcmNhLTI0OS5odG1s&showAd=0


In addition,Vietnam have't awacs , electronic warfare -aircraft and the advanced system of air warfare.so vaf is unable to defeat plaaf.


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## houshanghai

Way to go said:


> This is a fake news. I'm 99.9999999999% sure. Don't take it seriously.
> 
> lawxx, can you stop spreading rumors?


 
this is what pupu said.many big boss confirmed it in cdf too.you can well believe it.this is a real infs.

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## lawxx

Way to go said:


> This is a fake news. I'm 99.9999999999% sure. Don't take it seriously.
> 
> lawxx, can you stop spreading rumors?


 
You can choose not to believe that no one is forcing you.

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## Rechoice

Su-30MK2 can destroy air targets with guided missiles and short-range medium, destroy ground targets and surface water with all the weapons are highly accurate. Su-30MK2 can work independently or team under the border war in many types of weather that can combat by the darkness. Fighters may also be used for flight training techniques and tricks to use weapons to destroy air pilots. Fighter Su-30MK2 is two-seat aircraft, and refueling. 
According to Russian experts, Su-30MK2 variant for Vietnam with many improvements to combat the mixture. With flexibility can dive, spin and fly easily change the angle, Su-30MK2 can do tasks interceptor and air superiority to win. When performing the attack mission, the aircraft can strike targets accurately on the ground, to destroy air defense systems - the enemy's radar. Fighter aircraft are also "punch" beneficial substances in missions on air, capable crushes the targets at sea. Su-30MK2 a more certain framework structure to ensure reliability, capable of taking off with a maximum takeoff weight of up to 38 tons. Comparing the ability of the Su-30MK2 some U.S. fighter radar, engines, capable of carrying weapons. 

Modern electronic systems.
The Su-30MK2 radar work to ensure scouring of air targets, as the basis for the decision to attack targets with short-range missiles, medium-and long-range systems with different controls; scour, catch and bind the target seen with the naked eye in close-range combat of operations. 
In the air-to-ground mode, the Su-30MK2 radar for target detection in various weather conditions, determine the coordinates of the target surface and ground water, provide coordinates to control missile Kh- 31&#1040;, Kh-35E, Kh-59&#1052;&#1050; attack. 

Su-30MK2 cockpit. 
Optical aiming system - including the aircraft's electronic navigation devices and optical systems mounted target designation pilot hat. Optical positioning device is a combination block positioning device infrared observations - tracking and telemetry equipment - laser target designation, is used to detect and track air targets hemisphere in front of and behind the target by radiation, measuring the distance from aircraft to ground targets and airborne laser. 
In addition, it can be used for laser projection on the ground targets, guided missiles for the land with the first self-guided laser active attack. 

Weapons range 
Weapons of Su-30MK2 include automatic 30mm cannon type GSh-301 (150 members), bombs or missiles are located on 12 hardpoints under the wings and body. 
Missile weapons "air to air" include the missile control mid-range R-27 (R-27T1 and R-free 27ET1 equipped with thermal conductivity, R-27R1 and R-27ER1 equipped with self-guided semi-active radar) missiles R-27P1, R-27EP1, short-range missiles R-73E with the first self-guided infrared missile RVV-AE medium-range order leads to the first active radar. 
To destroy ground targets (water), Su-30MK2 use of weapons control and no control.
Arms control is "air for land, or sea" including missile Kh-59ME, Kh-35E, and Kh-59MK, mid-range high-speed missile Kh-31P with passive radar early self-guided, short-range missiles Kh-29T (E) with conduction or self-Kh-29L with the first self-guided laser bombs KAB-500KP Control (KAB-500-OD). 
Weapons do not control, including bombs of 500kg, 250kg and 100kg, fire bombs and rocket called S-8, S-13, S-25-OFM. 

List of weapons of Su-30MK2 
The basic parameters of the Su-30MK2 

Engine: 2xAL-31F 
Length: 21.9 m Height: 6.4 m Wingspan: 14.7 m 
Maximum takeoff weight 34,500 kg 
Loads of weapons: 8.000kg 
Reserve fuel: 9.720kg 
Maximum speed: Mach 2 
Ceiling fact: 17.300m

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## Nav

Viva_Viet said:


> We surely use air force for Kamikaze mission , such as shoot dow oil tanker craft or AWACS


 
i guess your jet fighters are not armed with missiles or rockets. Thats y u r country gona use it like sucide bomber's on unarmed targets.


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## houshanghai

Su-30MK2 is mainly A to G role.china have it too,there are even many chinese results in this plane .j10a is pure air supremacy fighter.vaf su30 are unable to win against plaaf j10.needless to say PLAAF kj2000 awacs. kj200 .y8 EW Aircraft .....


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## Viva_Viet

Nav said:


> i guess your jet fighters are not armed with missiles or rockets. Thats y u r country gona use it like sucide bomber's on unarmed targets.


 
No bro, I explaned already, our SU-30 or Mig 21 Bison team will be equipted with full missiles, try to find the targets like oil tanker craft and AWACS ( normaly out of combat radius range ) shoot them down, and if Su or Mig teams don't have enough gaz to fly back to the base, so just drop the crafts to the sea and pilot jump out with parachute .

btw: the best way of defence for small country in mordern warfare is using S-300, AAA system and making many Fake target that Radar and satellite can not recognize the diffrent. Air forces is uneconomical , only use for shock enemy with Kamikaze when the target is out of combat radius range


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## Zabaniyah

Viva_Viet said:


> No bro, I explaned already, our SU-30 or Mig 21 Bison team will be equipted with full missiles, try to find the targets like oil tanker craft and AWACS ( normaly out of combat radius range ) shoot them down, and if Su or Mig teams don't have enough gaz to fly back to the base, so just drop the crafts to the sea and pilot jump out with parachute .
> 
> btw: the best way of defence for small country in mordern warfare is using S-300, AAA system and making many Fake target that Radar and satellite can not recognize the diffrent. Air forces is uneconomical , only use for shock enemy with Kamikaze when the target is out of combat radius range


 
You are funny

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## lcloo

Rechoice said:


> Su-30MK2 can destroy air targets with guided missiles and short-range medium, destroy ground targets and surface water with all the weapons are highly accurate. Su-30MK2 can work independently or team under the border war in many types of weather that can combat by the darkness. Fighters may also be used for flight training techniques and tricks to use weapons to destroy air pilots. Fighter Su-30MK2 is two-seat aircraft, and refueling.
> According to Russian experts, Su-30MK2 variant for Vietnam with many improvements to combat the mixture. With flexibility can dive, spin and fly easily change the angle, Su-30MK2 can do tasks interceptor and air superiority to win. When performing the attack mission, the aircraft can strike targets accurately on the ground, to destroy air defense systems - the enemy's radar. Fighter aircraft are also "punch" beneficial substances in missions on air, capable crushes the targets at sea. Su-30MK2 a more certain framework structure to ensure reliability, capable of taking off with a maximum takeoff weight of up to 38 tons. Comparing the ability of the Su-30MK2 some U.S. fighter radar, engines, capable of carrying weapons.
> 
> Modern electronic systems.
> The Su-30MK2 radar work to ensure scouring of air targets, as the basis for the decision to attack targets with short-range missiles, medium-and long-range systems with different controls; scour, catch and bind the target seen with the naked eye in close-range combat of operations.
> In the air-to-ground mode, the Su-30MK2 radar for target detection in various weather conditions, determine the coordinates of the target surface and ground water, provide coordinates to control missile Kh- 31&#1040;, Kh-35E, Kh-59&#1052;&#1050; attack.
> 
> Su-30MK2 cockpit.
> Optical aiming system - including the aircraft's electronic navigation devices and optical systems mounted target designation pilot hat. Optical positioning device is a combination block positioning device infrared observations - tracking and telemetry equipment - laser target designation, is used to detect and track air targets hemisphere in front of and behind the target by radiation, measuring the distance from aircraft to ground targets and airborne laser.
> In addition, it can be used for laser projection on the ground targets, guided missiles for the land with the first self-guided laser active attack.
> 
> Weapons range
> Weapons of Su-30MK2 include automatic 30mm cannon type GSh-301 (150 members), bombs or missiles are located on 12 hardpoints under the wings and body.
> Missile weapons "air to air" include the missile control mid-range R-27 (R-27T1 and R-free 27ET1 equipped with thermal conductivity, R-27R1 and R-27ER1 equipped with self-guided semi-active radar) missiles R-27P1, R-27EP1, short-range missiles R-73E with the first self-guided infrared missile RVV-AE medium-range order leads to the first active radar.
> To destroy ground targets (water), Su-30MK2 use of weapons control and no control.
> Arms control is "air for land, or sea" including missile Kh-59ME, Kh-35E, and Kh-59MK, mid-range high-speed missile Kh-31P with passive radar early self-guided, short-range missiles Kh-29T (E) with conduction or self-Kh-29L with the first self-guided laser bombs KAB-500KP Control (KAB-500-OD).
> Weapons do not control, including bombs of 500kg, 250kg and 100kg, fire bombs and rocket called S-8, S-13, S-25-OFM.
> 
> List of weapons of Su-30MK2
> The basic parameters of the Su-30MK2
> 
> Engine: 2xAL-31F
> Length: 21.9 m Height: 6.4 m Wingspan: 14.7 m
> Maximum takeoff weight 34,500 kg
> Loads of weapons: 8.000kg
> Reserve fuel: 9.720kg
> Maximum speed: Mach 2
> Ceiling fact: 17.300m


 
Unfortunately for Vietnam, China also has many SU-30MK2, in fact far more in number than VAF. So the Chinese know everything on SU-30MK2 inside and outside and also its weapons and missiles also. On the other hand, Vietnam doesn't have intel on J-10 and J-11B, so PLAAF has upper hand to explore weakness of SU-30MK2V.

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## Peregrine

That was J-10A. Now just imagine what J-10B would do.No wonder that Pakistan has opted for J-10B to counter Indian MMRCA. So proud of China, China has come a long way in the last few years.


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## Viva_Viet

Zabanya said:


> You are funny


 Hehe, but that's the combat way of VNAF, we did it in Vn war for suicide mission like sunk the Us.war ship with Mig-17 , shot down B-52 with Mig-21 .And now, our AF will do again that funny live shows


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## lawxx

Viva_Viet said:


> Hehe, but that's the combat way of VNAF, we did it in Vn war for suicide mission like sunk the Us.war ship with Mig-17 , shot down B-52 with Mig-21 .And now, our AF will do again that funny live shows


 
Well, I do not want to say anything, I just want to say, Vietnam and China to engage in military confrontation is very foolish. First, you did not military power, second, you have no money. Third, there is no comprehensive industrial base.
Think about my words, stop your stupid comments.

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## below_freezing

I wish the best for Vietnam. Just do not stupidly back China into a corner. Even white bunnies will become maneaters when backed into a corner (this applies to Vietnam too). After all US got its hand bitten off twice.

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## Viva_Viet

lcloo said:


> Unfortunately for Vietnam, *China also has many SU-30MK2*, in fact far more in number than VAF. So the Chinese know everything on SU-30MK2 inside and outside and also its weapons and missiles also. On the other hand, Vietnam doesn't have intel on J-10 and J-11B, so PLAAF has upper hand to explore weakness of SU-30MK2V.





> China also has many SU-30MK2


Yep, that the main reason why we buy Russian weapons, those J-craft quite similar with Su nor Mig -crafts, so, our S-300 and AAA system will find out the way to shoot them down 

China can beat our AF, but very hard to destroy our S-300 and AAA system !


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## rcrmj

Viva_Viet said:


> Hehe, but that's the combat way of VNAF, we did it in Vn war for suicide mission like sunk the Us.war ship with Mig-17 , shot down B-52 with Mig-21 .And now, our AF will do again that funny live shows


 
this is fifth time you post excatly the same Mig-21 shot down one or two B-52 bombers in 70s stuff``lol

thats why people call you funny and simpliton

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## lawxx

China's goal is the United States, bring down the United States, these small countries naturally honest.


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## luckyyy

..................

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## Viva_Viet

lawxx said:


> Well, I do not want to say anything, I just want to say, Vietnam and China to engage in military confrontation is very foolish. First, you did not military power, second, you have no money. Third, there is no comprehensive industrial base.
> Think about my words, stop your stupid comments.


 
1. we have resouces, we can sell them to buy weapon till those resouces run out (still have long time) 

2. You only have air superiority, it doens't means China can defeat Vn, we still have S-300 and AAA system .

3. We don't wanna fight with Mighty China, but we won't let China violate our EEZ.


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## lawxx

rcrmj said:


> this is fifth time you post excatly the same Mig-21 shot down one or two B-52 bombers in 70s stuff``lol
> 
> thats why people call you funny and simpliton


 
, Hi, brother, do not ignore him, and he said is completely useless, he will never understand and comprehend. Direct ignore his presence.


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## Viva_Viet

rcrmj said:


> this is fifth time you post excatly the same Mig-21 shot down one or two B-52 bombers in 70s stuff``lol
> 
> thats why people call you funny and simpliton


Oh man, B-52 still better than your Oil tanker craft and AWACS .If we can shoot B-52 down, there No reason why we can not shoot down the easier targets 


lawxx said:


> , Hi, brother, do not ignore him, and he said is a total cattle on piano.


You can belive or not, up to you bro, no one force you to belive it.


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## Rechoice

lcloo said:


> Unfortunately for Vietnam, China also has many SU-30MK2, in fact far more in number than VAF. So the Chinese know everything on SU-30MK2 inside and outside and also its weapons and missiles also. On the other hand, Vietnam doesn't have intel on J-10 and J-11B, so PLAAF has upper hand to explore weakness of SU-30MK2V.



Talking is easy, Sir.


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## Zabaniyah

Viva_Viet said:


> Yep, that the main reason why we buy Russian weapons, those J-craft quite similar with Su nor Mig -crafts, so, our S-300 and AAA system will find out the way to shoot them down
> 
> China can beat our AF, but very hard to destroy our S-300 and AAA system !


 
The PLAAF already operates almost a hundred SU-30s, bought from Russia.



Rechoice said:


> Talking is easy, Sir.


 
At least he was talking facts. 4 Viet SU-30s vs. PLAAF? hmm....

Forgive my ignorance, but exactly how many SU-30s does Vietnam operate?

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## rcrmj

luckyyy said:


> *i think it was just a trick played by chines pilots to confuss and exploit the inexperience of Vietnamies pilots..*
> 
> see , it just very simple , by increasing the radar power for a very short duration of time , you can surly lock a enemy fighter at long distance but that don't means you win the combat..
> 
> su-30 has a prity good radar and can pick a fighter at a distance beyond 200km ..as the article says veitnamies pilots didnt see any thing on their radar , just means the j-10 was far away from it and just spike it's radar power for few second to confuss the opponent .


 
you need to learn the very basic idea of air combat and how radar works in reality`

your post seems to plot a childish movie`



> increasing radar power


```best line ever`dude radar does not work like this to increase the detection range`

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## rcrmj

Rechoice said:


> Talking is easy, Sir.


 
exactly, you need to inform your country men to stop bull$hiting with kids assumption`this is defence forum, if you felt not very confortable taking about the matters involved, there are lots of good other threads here that you can read to educate your ignorance`

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## Jon Snow

if true, then it shows how important awacs actually are ( there's a reason why they're called force multipliers)....... but personally i dont think the news is true, if the j 10s were really this good and could beat the su 30, j11, su 27 so easily, why would the chinese order so many of these fighters despite the fact that they are far more expensive to maintain...
guess we'll never know the truth.....

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## luckyyy

rcrmj said:


> ```best line ever`dude radar does not work like this to increase the detection range`


 you need more learning ..


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## nomi007

1st of all plz both countries show tolerance than advise to Vietnamese that su-30 is the best but u try to modernize them like indians
to install Israeli avionics and radars
Russian engines are best but avionics are poor,Chinese avionics are best but engines are not efficient

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## Viva_Viet

Zabanya said:


> The PLAAF already operates almost a hundred SU-30s, bought from Russia.
> 
> 
> 
> At least he was talking facts. 4 Viet SU-30s vs. PLAAF? hmm....
> 
> Forgive my ignorance, but exactly how many SU-30s does Vietnam operate?


 
We have about 35-38 Su-30, 32 bought in 2010, 4 just bought this years and ThaiLand worry about our AF already coz Su-30 is used mainly for Attacking purpose 


Jon snow said:


> if true, then it shows how important awacs actually are ( there's a reason why they're called force multipliers)....... but personally i dont think the news is true, if the j 10s were really this good and could beat the su 30, j11, su 27 so easily, why would the chinese order so many of these fighters despite the fact that they are far more expensive to maintain...
> guess we'll never know the truth.....


But it's hard to protect awacs against Jet fighter, what happend if this expensive tool got shot down ??


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## cn_habs

Jon Snow said:


> if true, then it shows how important awacs actually are ( there's a reason why they're called force multipliers)....... but personally i dont think the news is true, if the j 10s were really this good and could beat the su 30, j11, su 27 so easily, why would the chinese order so many of these fighters despite the fact that they are far more expensive to maintain...
> guess we'll never know the truth.....


 
Su-30MKK was bought to be a bomber rather than an air superiority fighter like J-10.


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## Zabaniyah

Viva_Viet said:


> We have about 35-38 Su-30, 32 bought in 2010, 4 just bought this years and ThaiLand worry about our AF already coz Su-30 is used mainly for Attacking purpose



Uh-huh...any sources? When did Thailand get into the discussion? Is Thailand bullying you? Nevertheless, RTAF's F-16s are enough to deal with any threat.


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## Machoman

but Pupu can dance sadla?


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## Viva_Viet

Zabanya said:


> Uh-huh...any sources? When did Thailand get into the discussion? Is Thailand bullying you? Nevertheless, RTAF's F-16s are enough to deal with any threat.


 
Oh,...yeah you're living in ThaiLand now, right ?


> Vietnam has made a new and huge purchase of weapons from its old Russian friends, and it seems more likely to increase regional tension and restart an arms race than to promote peace. The secrecy of the deal is at least equally unfortunate. News of the purchase of submarines and advanced fighter jets leaked out of Europe, and even then authorities in Hanoi simply kept mum. This is the first significant arms purchase within the region since Vietnam joined Asean. Hanoi has a lot of explaining to do.
> 
> Press reports last week from Russia said the major arms purchase totalled some US$2 billion (70 billion baht), and was finalised during a visit to Moscow by Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung. Mr Dung confirmed in an offhand remark at a press conference he had agreed to purchase weapons, but gave no details. Sources in Moscow indicate he made a major buy. *It is worrying because the squadron of SU30 fighter jets he bought is highly advanced compared with other regional air forces*.


Bangkok Post : Rethink this arms buildup


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## lawxx

Jon Snow said:


> if true, then it shows how important awacs actually are ( there's a reason why they're called force multipliers)....... but personally i dont think the news is true, if the j 10s were really this good and could beat the su 30, j11, su 27 so easily, why would the chinese order so many of these fighters despite the fact that they are far more expensive to maintain...
> guess we'll never know the truth.....


 
You see China is now buying it? Since the J-10 official service, the Chinese buy it?

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## lawxx

In short, China's goal is the United States, bring down the United States, you will rely on the no. Meanwhile, the Chinese did to Vietnam as a rival, J-10 lock Vietnam SU-30, just a warning for Vietnam only.


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## SomeGuy

Jon Snow said:


> if true, then it shows how important awacs actually are ( there's a reason why they're called force multipliers)....... but personally i dont think the news is true, if the j 10s were really this good and could beat the su 30, j11, su 27 so easily, why would the chinese order so many of these fighters despite the fact that they are far more expensive to maintain...
> guess we'll never know the truth.....


 
The Chinese have not ordered any more Su-30 for quite a few years now, they have cheaper alternatives like JH-7A or more capable planes like J-11Bs and J-15.

Also, J-10A is newer, it came into service a number of years after China first got Su-30. So J-10 beating older Su-30, J-11A and Su-27 in exercises isn't too suprising.


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## luckyyy

Jon Snow said:


> if true, then it shows how important awacs actually are ( there's a reason why they're called force multipliers)....... but personally i dont think the news is true, if the j 10s were really this good and could beat the su 30, j11, su 27 so easily, why would the chinese order so many of these fighters despite the fact that they are far more expensive to maintain...
> guess we'll never know the truth.....


 
*i think it was just a trick played by chines pilots to confuss and exploit the inexperience of Vietnamies pilots..*

see , it just very simple , by increasing the radar power for a very short duration of time , you can surly lock a enemy fighter at long distance but that don't means you win the combat..

su-30 has a prity good radar and can pick a fighter at a distance beyond 200km ..as the article says veitnamies pilots didnt see any thing on their radar , just means the j-10 was far away from it and just spike it's radar power for few second to confuss the opponent .

they are infect good in such tricks , can even put hollywood moive clip to claim A2A missile success on national TV..

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## Way to go

houshanghai said:


> this is what pupu said.many big boss confirmed it in cdf too.you can well believe it.this is a real infs.


 
"su-30 didnt see j-10"----how did he know that?


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## Nowaday

Viva_Viet said:


> We have about 35-38 Su-30, 32 bought in 2010, 4 just bought this years and ThaiLand worry about our AF already coz Su-30 is used mainly for Attacking purpose
> 
> But it's hard to protect awacs against Jet fighter, what happend if this expensive tool got shot down ??



Viva_Viet, stupid guy. You don't need to answear this question (or others like this). It is a military secret. But you just a civilian, your information is not sure. The problem is that I talk about how you talk. It is not smart. Don't let someone else drive you so easy bro.


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## luckyyy

..............


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## luckyyy

rcrmj said:


> you need to learn the very basic idea of air combat and how radar works in reality`
> 
> 
> ```best line ever`dude radar does not work like this to increase the detection range`



the detection range v/s radar power on the link will help you understand :

Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat

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## AMCA

rcrmj said:


> you need to learn the very basic idea of air combat and how radar works in reality`
> 
> your post seems to plot a childish movie`
> 
> ```best line ever`dude radar does not work like this to increase the detection range`


 
Gentle man, Do you know that Increasing the radiated power will increase the range of the radar well of course if you have the support of Low Probability of Intercept(LPI) you can not only lock it but also save yourself from getting detected...My son it is you now who needs to learn the very basic idea of air combat and how radar works in reality. Get yourself updated with Linear Polarization aswel, might help...

Dont try to be oversmart, no one is perfect, give a break to your air superiority and get off High heals...


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## houshanghai

Way to go said:


> "su-30 didnt see j-10"----how did he know that?


 
you didn't know pupu,We may say that you are &#20891;&#30450;&#12290;

pupu is very reliable man in cdf.no doubt it.&#20182;&#35828;&#30340;&#26159;&#30005;&#23376;&#25112;&#33268;&#30450;&#65292;&#22303;&#40150;&#36825;&#20010;&#26368;&#25343;&#25163;&#20102;&#65292;&#36825;&#26041;&#38754;&#27611;&#23376;&#20063;&#36214;&#19981;&#19978;&#65292;&#36234;&#21335;&#29492;&#23376;&#20080;&#22810;&#23569;&#39134;&#26426;&#20063;&#27809;&#29992;&#65292;&#20307;&#31995;&#26159;&#33258;&#24049;&#30740;&#21046;&#31215;&#32047;&#30340;&#65292;&#26159;&#22312;&#19990;&#30028;&#19978;&#29992;&#38065;&#20080;&#19981;&#21040;&#30340;&#65292;&#29616;&#22312;&#30495;&#27491;&#24418;&#25104;&#31354;&#25112;&#20307;&#31995;&#30340;&#21482;&#26377;md,&#31532;&#20108;&#23601;&#26159;&#22303;&#40150;&#65292;&#27611;&#23376;&#37117;&#25490;&#19981;&#19978;&#12290;

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## AMCA

Not to worry Vietnam, get your aircrafts parked here in India and we will be glad to enhance electronic warfare capability of Su 30's to MKI standards..

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## lawxx

houshanghai said:


> you didn't know pupu,We may say that you are &#20891;&#30450;&#12290;
> 
> pupu is very reliable man in cdf.no doubt it.&#20182;&#35828;&#30340;&#26159;&#30005;&#23376;&#25112;&#33268;&#30450;&#65292;&#22303;&#40150;&#36825;&#20010;&#26368;&#25343;&#25163;&#20102;&#65292;&#36825;&#26041;&#38754;&#27611;&#23376;&#20063;&#36214;&#19981;&#19978;&#65292;&#36234;&#21335;&#29492;&#23376;&#20080;&#22810;&#23569;&#39134;&#26426;&#20063;&#27809;&#29992;&#65292;&#20307;&#31995;&#26159;&#33258;&#24049;&#30740;&#21046;&#31215;&#32047;&#30340;&#65292;&#26159;&#22312;&#19990;&#30028;&#19978;&#29992;&#38065;&#20080;&#19981;&#21040;&#30340;&#65292;&#29616;&#22312;&#30495;&#27491;&#24418;&#25104;&#31354;&#25112;&#20307;&#31995;&#30340;&#21482;&#26377;md,&#31532;&#20108;&#23601;&#26159;&#22303;&#40150;&#65292;&#27611;&#23376;&#37117;&#25490;&#19981;&#19978;&#12290;


 
&#20804;&#24351;&#65292;&#20320;&#25226;&#25105;&#25972;&#29702;&#30340;&#19996;&#35199;&#22823;&#33268;&#32763;&#35793;&#20986;&#26469;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#25105;&#33521;&#25991;&#19981;&#22909;&#65292;&#65292;&#32763;&#35793;&#20986;&#26469;&#32473;&#20182;&#20204;&#30475;&#30475;&#12290;


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## lawxx

AMCA said:


> Not to worry Vietnam, get your aircrafts parked here in India and we will be glad to enhance electronic warfare capability of Su 30's to MKI standards..


 
Useless.Useless. If you think your e-capacity of more than Russia.In addition to the U.S. for help increase.


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## houshanghai

lawxx said:


> &#20804;&#24351;&#65292;&#20320;&#25226;&#25105;&#25972;&#29702;&#30340;&#19996;&#35199;&#22823;&#33268;&#32763;&#35793;&#20986;&#26469;&#19968;&#19979;&#65292;&#25105;&#33521;&#25991;&#19981;&#22909;&#65292;&#65292;&#32763;&#35793;&#20986;&#26469;&#32473;&#20182;&#20204;&#30475;&#30475;&#12290;


 
&#20320;&#35753;&#25105;&#32763;&#35793;&#65292;&#8857;&#65103;&#8857;b&#27735;&#65292;&#25105;&#33521;&#25991;&#20063;&#19981;&#22909;&#65292;&#26368;&#36817;&#25105;&#36824;&#26159;&#19978;pdf&#25165;&#20250;&#28857;&#33521;&#25991;



SU-30MK2V in Vietnam Phan Rang air bases

8531









8532








8533








8534


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## Zabaniyah

Viva_Viet said:


> Oh,...yeah you're living in ThaiLand now, right ?
> Bangkok Post : Rethink this arms buildup


 
Where in the article does it say that Thai generals are 'worried' about Vietnam's purchase of SU-30s? That is just an editorial section anyways. I don't see any reason to worry about Vietnam's military in Thailand's POV.

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## Pakchina

Zabanya said:


> They can ask India. After all, they are pretty good with all the avionics stuff. The SU-30MKI's avionics and software were all contributed by India during the overall development of the aircraft.


 
The Bollywoodaydreamers and No1 Weapons importer have contributed nothing, all avionics and software of the SU-30MKI are Israelis, made by Israel and imported from Israel. If India was so good in manufacturing avionics, it would not have imported all its weapons and technology from the West, while it would have long been able to manufacture its own aircraft, buillet train while in the case of China, despite western technological embargoes it has been able to produce its own bulltet train, constructing the longest world sea bridge, and producing mostly its own weaponry and technology. Even in the case of civil software China will surpass India.

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## AMCA

lawxx said:


> Useless.Useless. If you think your e-capacity of more than Russia.


 
Check the article dude..... The price is high.... and Electronic warfare suit, it wouldnt be hard for me to say that India has been investing into it heavily and The fighter aircrafts India uses are not equipped with any Foreign EW suits but Indian Ones.... And a 4th generation EW suit is in development.... We have Tarang and Mayavi EW systems for Aircraft the best of which can be put to use...


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## lawxx

AMCA said:


> Check the article dude..... The price is high.... and Electronic warfare suit, it wouldnt be hard for me to say that India has been investing into it heavily and The fighter aircrafts India uses are not equipped with any Foreign EW suits but Indian Ones.... And a 4th generation EW suit is in development.... We have Tarang and Mayavi EW systems for Aircraft the best of which can be put to use...


 
Do you think the ability to exceed your e-Russia? So Vietnam is useless to find you.


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## lawxx

I think we should properly interpret the theme of my post content. Since my English is not good, so I can not translate it. Inside a section is on China, Russia, India's electronic capabilities. Clearly Russia and India than in China, however.


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## AMCA

Pakchina said:


> The Bollywoodaydreamers and No1 Weapons importer have contributed nothing, all avionics and software of the SU-30MKI are Israelis, made by Israel and imported from Israel. If India was so good in manufacturing avionics, it would not have imported all its weapons and technology from the West, while it would have long been able to manufacture its own aircraft, buillet train while in the case of China, despite western technological embargoes it has been able to produce its own bulltet train, constructing the longest world sea bridge, and producing mostly its own weaponry and technology. Even in the case of civil software China will surpass India.


 
The world is not ignorant as your country to be blind enough on the happening....watch and get updated 

They took six years to develop from start to MKI. Advanced avionics were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" (a Tamil name for the victorious lance carried by the youthful Lord Karthikeya or Murugan, a son of Parvati and Shiva) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. Indian avionics have been received and acknowledged enthusiastically by the Russian principals.

The following are the components developed by Indian agencies:

* Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
* Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
* Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
* IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
* Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
* Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
* Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
* Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE 

The 32-bit Mission Computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight management, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, Ada language has been adopted for the mission computer's software. The other DARE-developed product, the Tarang Mk2 (Tranquil) radar warning receiver, is manufactured by state-owned BEL at its Bangalore facility.

These avionics equipment have also been certified for their airworthiness in meeting the demanding standards of Russian military aviation. The cumulative value of such indigenous avionic equipment is estimated to exceed Rs. 250 lakhs per aircraft. Since the core avionics were developed by a single agency (DRDO) - they have significant commonality of hardware and software amongst them using a modular approach to design. This obviously results in major cost and time savings in development; it also benefits the user in maintenance and spares inventories.

The DRDO has gone a step further and come out with a new design of the Core Avionics Computer (CAC) which can be used with a single module adaptation across many other aircraft platforms. Thus the CAC which is derived from the computers designed for the Su-30MKI will now be the centre piece of the avionics upgrades for the MiG-27 and Jaguar aircraft as well. The CAC was demonstrated by DRDO at the Aero India exhibition at Yelahanka and attracted a good deal of international attention. Taken together with the systems already developed indigenously for the LCA (such as the Digital Flight Control Computer and HUD), clearly Indian avionics have a significant export potential in the burgeoning global market for avionics modernisation.

The navigation/weapons systems from the various countries were integrated by Ramenskoye RPKB.

HAL will supply components to Irkut for 300 Su-30s meant for export to Malaysia and Algeria apart from those meant for IAF

*To the fact that India has achieved 100% indigenisation of the Su 30 MKI's... here you go with the link*

Weapon and Technology: Indigenisation of Sukhoi fighter 2010

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/32044-total-indigenisation-sukhoi-su-30mki-next-year-hal.html

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## AMCA

lawxx said:


> Do you think the ability to exceed your e-Russia? So Vietnam is useless to find you.


 
Come on, we are not as exp as the Russians who know the best of aviation, India is just an option open to exercise...

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## lawxx

AMCA said:


> Come on, we are not as exp as the Russians who know the best of aviation, India is just an option open to exercise...


 
So we saw a strange phenomenon, Vietnam want to rely on the United States, but the United States to ignore him. Found in Russia, but Russia can not afford him the price, so now found in India. I wonder if India refused to Vietnam, then Vietnam will find what the next country?


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## Viva_Viet

Zabanya said:


> Where in the article does it say that Thai generals are 'worried' about Vietnam's purchase of SU-30s? That is just an editorial section anyways. I don't see any reason to worry about Vietnam's military in Thailand's POV.


 
Maybe I'm wrong when reading this sentence


> It is worrying because the squadron of SU30 fighter jets he bought is highly advanced compared with other regional air forces.



btw: we don't wanna have any conflict with Thailand

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## IFB

AMCA said:


> The world is not ignorant as your country to be blind enough on the happening....watch and get updated
> 
> They took six years to develop from start to MKI. Advanced avionics were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" (a Tamil name for the victorious lance carried by the youthful Lord Karthikeya or Murugan, a son of Parvati and Shiva) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. Indian avionics have been received and acknowledged enthusiastically by the Russian principals.



WOW thats some nice info mate..."Vetrivel" is a tamil word for lord muruga...it is blessed by the great lord himself thats why the sukoi is such a beast .

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## Viva_Viet

lawxx said:


> So we saw a strange phenomenon, Vietnam want to rely on the United States, but the United States to ignore him. Found in Russia, but Russia can not afford him the price, so now found in India. I wonder if India refused to Vietnam, then Vietnam will find what the next country?


 
If it happend, we will seek for our old Boss- France, they can sell Mistral ship to Russia and ignore Nato's worrying, so they can sell their craft to their old member of France Union 

btw: France wanna support Cambodia in Cam-Thai conflict now


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## S10

Viva_Viet said:


> That why, in our defence tactic, they discuss mainly on S-300, Radar and AAA system. You have air superiority, but S-300 and AAA system will be the hardest opponent to you. VNAF is used for some Kamikaze mission only, same as during VN war


Syria followed the same strategy in the Beka Valley air war. Iraqi and Serbia also followed such doctrine. They failed miserably. SAMs and AAA batteries were nearly useless in stopping air operations. Airplanes always have advantages over ground systems, the greatest of all being gravity and mobility.

Runny kamikaze air attack against an opponent with greater situational awareness is nearly impossible, especially when your own sensors are jammed. How will you detect and track targets? How will you guide your plane towards your targets? These are things to think about, since your best fighter jets were jammed easily just two weeks ago.

A more likely scenario is that your radars will be jammed by SEAD opeartions, reducing their effectiveness. The enemy will use stand-off weapons to destroy your assets. In addition, your ground forces movements will be tracked by satellites. When your planes take off, they would be tracked by AWACS, and intercept flights will be directed towards them. Again, they would be jammed without being able to fight back.

Total military superiority is not examplified by a few weapon systems, but your ability to network and intergrate them into combine arms operation.

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## lawxx

Viva_Viet said:


> If it happend, we will seek for our old Boss- France, they can sell Mistral ship to Russia and ignore Nato's worrying, so they can sell their craft to their old member of France Union
> 
> btw: France wanna support Cambodia in Cam-Thai conflict now


 
Oh, you have the French invasion and colonization? Good idea.


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## luckyyy

lawxx said:


> Useless.Useless. If you think your e-capacity of more than Russia.In addition to the U.S. for help increase.


 
during red flag air excercise , the US officer's presentation , he clearly say " SU-30MKI jamming our missiles "


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## AMCA

lawxx said:


> So we saw a strange phenomenon, Vietnam want to rely on the United States, but the United States to ignore him. Found in Russia, but Russia can not afford him the price, so now found in India. I wonder if India refused to Vietnam, then Vietnam will find what the next country?


 
Why on earth would India refuse Vietnam??? Dont use the "If" Clause to your comfort. And if in anyway bound by International pressure on this silly EW suite sale, we would gladly include them in the development of new 4th gen EW suite.

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## lawxx

below_freezing said:


> &#26377;&#26102;&#38388;&#25105;&#21487;&#20197;&#24110;&#20320;&#32763;&#35793;~


 
&#35874;&#35874;&#20102;&#65281;~~~~~~~~~~


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## houshanghai

AMCA said:


> The world is not ignorant as your country to be blind enough on the happening....watch and get updated
> 
> They took six years to develop from start to MKI. Advanced avionics were developed by DRDO under a project code named "Vetrivale" (a Tamil name for the victorious lance carried by the youthful Lord Karthikeya or Murugan, a son of Parvati and Shiva) in close collaboration with the PSUs and the IAF. Indian avionics have been received and acknowledged enthusiastically by the Russian principals.
> 
> The following are the components developed by Indian agencies:
> 
> * Mission Computer cum Display Processor - MC-486 and DP-30MK (Defence Avionics Research Establishment - DARE)
> * Radar Computer - RC1 and RC2 (DARE)
> * Tarang Mk2 Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) + High Accuracy Direction Finding Module (HADF) (DARE
> * IFF-1410A - Identification Friend or Foe (IFF)
> * Integrated Communication suite INCOM 1210A (HAL)
> * Radar Altimeter - RAM-1701 (HAL)
> * Programmable Signal Processor (PSP) - (LRDE)
> * Multi Function Displays (MFD) - Samtel/DARE
> 
> The 32-bit Mission Computer performs mission-oriented computations, flight management, reconfiguration-cum-redundancy management and in-flight systems self-tests. In compliance with MIL-STD-1521 and 2167A standards, Ada language has been adopted for the mission computer's software. The other DARE-developed product, the Tarang Mk2 (Tranquil) radar warning receiver, is manufactured by state-owned BEL at its Bangalore facility.
> 
> These avionics equipment have also been certified for their airworthiness in meeting the demanding standards of Russian military aviation. The cumulative value of such indigenous avionic equipment is estimated to exceed Rs. 250 lakhs per aircraft. Since the core avionics were developed by a single agency (DRDO) - they have significant commonality of hardware and software amongst them using a modular approach to design. This obviously results in major cost and time savings in development; it also benefits the user in maintenance and spares inventories.
> 
> The DRDO has gone a step further and come out with a new design of the Core Avionics Computer (CAC) which can be used with a single module adaptation across many other aircraft platforms. Thus the CAC which is derived from the computers designed for the Su-30MKI will now be the centre piece of the avionics upgrades for the MiG-27 and Jaguar aircraft as well. The CAC was demonstrated by DRDO at the Aero India exhibition at Yelahanka and attracted a good deal of international attention. Taken together with the systems already developed indigenously for the LCA (such as the Digital Flight Control Computer and HUD), clearly Indian avionics have a significant export potential in the burgeoning global market for avionics modernisation.
> 
> The navigation/weapons systems from the various countries were integrated by Ramenskoye RPKB.
> 
> HAL will supply components to Irkut for 300 Su-30s meant for export to Malaysia and Algeria apart from those meant for IAF
> 
> *To the fact that India has achieved 100% indigenisation of the Su 30 MKI's... here you go with the link*
> 
> Weapon and Technology: Indigenisation of Sukhoi fighter 2010
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/32044-total-indigenisation-sukhoi-su-30mki-next-year-hal.html


 

lol indians always take Israel or russian techniques as indians own invention



but..........................

U.S. Pressures Israel to Block IAI AESA Radar Sale to India


http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...s-israel-block-iai-aesa-radar-sale-india.html

Thread: Russia Valuing INS Vikramaditya Aircraft Carrier Deal at USD 2.7 Billion

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-...ya-aircraft-carrier-deal-usd-2-7-billion.html

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## Nowaday

lawxx said:


> So we saw a strange phenomenon, Vietnam want to rely on the United States, but the United States to ignore him. Found in Russia, but Russia can not afford him the price, so now found in India. I wonder if India refused to Vietnam, then Vietnam will find what the next country?



You know the market economy????
Mr. A go to Mr. B to buy his goods. But Mr. B refused to sell.

Mr. A find Mr. C. but he made &#8203;&#8203;the price too high

Mr. A find Mr. D. He agreed. Ok good. And later, what he need to buy from us, we may accept a lower price. 

that's relationship. Of course, the benefits to both

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## AMCA

houshanghai said:


> lol indians always take Israel or russian techniques as indians own invention



Be a man and disprove what I have said, Instead of posting silly articles which do not even closely brush aside what I have stated, or if you are so Irritated to have got your bubble broken, I am glad to fix you a bigger one...

And as for the AESA and AC in your links, We have both being made here in India...


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## AMCA

Nowaday said:


> You know the market economy????
> Mr. A go to Mr. B to buy his goods. But Mr. B refused to sell.
> 
> Mr. A find Mr. C. but he made &#8203;&#8203;the price too high
> 
> Mr. A find Mr. D. He agreed. Ok good. And later, what he should buy from us, we may accept a lower price.
> 
> that's relationship. Of course, the benefits to both


 
Brother, sometimes relationships are beyond business.... We have to take it that way with ourselves...

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## Zabaniyah

Pakchina said:


> The Bollywoodaydreamers and No1 Weapons importer have contributed nothing, all avionics and software of the SU-30MKI are Israelis, made by Israel and imported from Israel. If India was so good in manufacturing avionics, it would not have imported all its weapons and technology from the West, while it would have long been able to manufacture its own aircraft, buillet train while in the case of China, despite western technological embargoes it has been able to produce its own bulltet train, constructing the longest world sea bridge, and producing mostly its own weaponry and technology. Even in the case of civil software China will surpass India.


 
Don't be foolish. As ACMA stated, India has had its contribution in the overall development of the SU-30MKI, mostly in the field of avionics. The SU-30MKI, including its engine are manufactured in India under license. 

For simplicity sake, you can check wikipedia:
Sukhoi Su-30MKI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## houshanghai

AMCA said:


> Be a man and disprove what I have said, Instead of posting silly articles which do not even closely brush aside what I have stated, or if you are so Irritated to have got your bubble broken, I am glad to fix you a bigger one...
> 
> And as for the AESA and AC in your links, We have both being made here in India...


 indians only know to buy weapon from Russia usa French Israel,......


but indians are incapable of building any simple weapon by yourselves

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## AMCA

Zabanya said:


> Don't be foolish. As ACMA stated, India has had its contribution in the overall development of the SU-30MKI, mostly in the field of avionics. The SU-30MKI, including its engine are manufactured in India under license.
> 
> For simplicity sake, you can check wikipedia:
> Sukhoi Su-30MKI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


 
Brother we have reached near 100%indeginization with manufacturing an Aircraft Russia first co developed with a foreign country(MKI) , But India cannot have a choice but to license produce it because its an Indo-Russian Venture built upon a Pure Russian Concept...

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## lawxx

houshanghai said:


> indians only know to buy weapon from Russia usa French Israel,......
> 
> 
> but indians are incapable of building any simple weapon by yourselves


 
So the Indian nations of weapons and equipment is equipment


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## AMCA

houshanghai said:


> indians only know to buy weapon from Russia usa French Israel,......
> 
> 
> but indians are incapable of building any simple weapon by yourselves


 
I am helpless, you have nothing to disprove so I consider it done with you my friend, Adeu... If you want to be constructive, be in a position to stand and argue not in a position to be Puking the same thing again and again.... Just because you are un aware of what we do does not mean the world is blind, Improve on it and we might talk.


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## khurasaan1

okay! Alhamdolillah! nice info by the Pupu......


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## Nowaday

AMCA said:


> Brother, sometimes relationships are beyond business.... We have to take it that way with ourselves...



Agree with you

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## lawxx

AMCA said:


> I am helpless, you have nothing to disprove so I consider it done with you my friend, Adeu... If you want to be constructive, be in a position to stand and argue not in a position to be Puking the same thing again and again.... Just because you are un aware of what we do does not mean the world is blind, Improve on it and we might talk.


 
Do you dare to deny your military equipment is from multiple countries? Sri Lanka can even sell your equipment.


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## houshanghai

AMCA said:


> Brother we have reached near 100%indeginization with manufacturing an Aircraft Russia co developed with a foreign country(MKI) , But India cannot have a choice but to license produce it because its an Indo-Russian Venture built upon a Pure Russian Concept...


 
indians is only buy russian 5 gen fighter

your indians cannot building alone a your own 5 gen fighter like us.

AMCA is just 4.5 gen concept ,it will not become a real 5 gen fighter in the future.


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## AMCA

lawxx said:


> Do you dare to deny your military equipment is from multiple countries? Sri Lanka can even sell your equipment.


 
Come on sir, Point it out to me where I mentioned it... I dare you.... But I would also ask you to mention one aircraft in Indian inventory which has not been Upgraded with Indian Avionics and EW suits... May it be from Mig 21 to Su-30 MKI's.... And I dont need to disagree with you, India does not have a Buy Indian policy, we Issue a tender based on which our procurement is decided, its not a Wonder that Indian Products cannot match up with that of the western and Hence India looses the Business... But that dosent mean India doesnt produce it and Indian military dosent use it... I hope I made myself clear to you...


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## AMCA

houshanghai said:


> indians is only buy russian 5 gen fighter
> 
> your indians cannot building alone a your own 5 gen fighter like us.
> 
> AMCA is just 4.5 gen concept ,it will not become a real 5 gen fighter in the future.


 
Never have I agreed more....Thank you...

---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------




Nowaday said:


> Agree with you


 
You are welcome mate... Most welcome

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## lawxx

AMCA said:


> Come on sir, Point it out to me where I mentioned it... I dare you.... But I would also ask you to mention one aircraft in Indian inventory which has not been Upgraded with Indian Avionics and EW suits... May it be from Mig 21 to Su-30 MKI's.... And I dont need to disagree with you, India does not have a Buy Indian policy, we Issue a tender based on which our procurement is decided, its not a Wonder that Indian Products cannot match up with that of the western and Hence India looses the Business... But that dosent mean India doesnt produce it and Indian military dosent use it... I hope I made myself clear to you...


 Check your previous statements


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## AMCA

lawxx said:


> Check your previous statements


 
show it to me...


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## houshanghai

AMCA said:


> show it to me...


actually
russian cannot be trusted .they only wanted your money.
imo
your indians should team up to develop AMCA with Swedish .


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## rcrmj

luckyyy said:


> the detection range v/s radar power on the link will help you understand :
> 
> Flanker Radars in Beyond Visual Range Air Combat


 
some people they just dont read stuff deeper, start barking only knowing the surface. radar's detection range is determined by serveral factors. you cannot just to increase the power to increase the range`` as it is well known fact that in same category, russian's radar has much higher out-put than americans, however they do not 'look' as far and as accurate as americans. 

for example a classic jet Pulse-doppler radar like AN/APG-66 (early F-16) and early Zhuk used by Su-27, when at working the russian's radar can kill a rabit sized animal within 1 km range!!, however, its detection maximum range on classic 5m2 signiture is less than 90km, and AN/APG-66 has over 100km whereas needs much less power````

each type radar's maximum power output is fixed, in order to increase detecting range its not as easy as you suggested to 'just' 'increase'```because it will simply burn some of the parts, so a re-design of power supply, radio transmiting parts and power protector is needed. india can not even make a 70s standard Pulse-doppler radars, let alone to improve Su-30's radar, its simply telling 'Arabian Nights' stories`

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## lawxx

AMCA said:


> show it to me...


 


> indians only know to buy weapon from Russia usa French Israel,......
> 
> 
> but indians are incapable of building any simple weapon by yourselves
> Original Post By houshanghai
> I am helpless, you have nothing to disprove so I consider it done with you my friend, Adeu... If you want to be constructive, be in a position to stand and argue not in a position to be Puking the same thing again and again.... Just because you are un aware of what we do does not mean the world is blind, Improve on it and we might talk.

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## rcrmj

AMCA said:


> Gentle man, Do you know that Increasing the radiated power will increase the range of the radar well of course if you have the support of Low Probability of Intercept(LPI) you can not only lock it but also save yourself from getting detected...My son it is you now who needs to learn the very basic idea of air combat and how radar works in reality. Get yourself updated with Linear Polarization aswel, might help...
> 
> Dont try to be oversmart, no one is perfect, give a break to your air superiority and get off High heals...


 
no body is on high heals, just the fact vn Su-30s were locked multipul times by J-10s with AWACs support`and I explained how it happened on post 20, it is Luckyyy putting up fairy tales about how to increase range by just increase power output``

you cant just argue with already happened facts``and also basic theory of how radar works

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## April.lyrics

google translate?

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## SBD-3

Santro said:


> Well..India would most likely offer EW upgrades to the Su-30's.
> The reason why the Chinese were successful against the VN Su-30's is their own exp with the aircraft and electronics fit.
> If the EW suite of the MKI is transplanted into the VN Su-30's.. the results may not be the same again.


I was not aware that Indians produce their own EW suits. Mostly I hear about Israeli EW suits rather than Indian ones.

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## saurav

So, now we will have threads based on what someone said..Forum moving in right direction..

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## S10

Viva_Viet said:


> No bro, I explaned already, our SU-30 or Mig 21 Bison team will be equipted with full missiles, try to find the targets like oil tanker craft and AWACS ( normaly out of combat radius range ) shoot them down, and if Su or Mig teams don't have enough gaz to fly back to the base, so just drop the crafts to the sea and pilot jump out with parachute .


Locating targets without proper support from off-board sensors are very difficult, especially when Sout China Sea is such a large area. The incident two weeks ago demonstrated that your planes and ground radar were easily jammed by us. Basically your planes could not obtain any sort of lock. How do you intend to go after AWACS and tankers blind?



> btw: the best way of defence for small country in mordern warfare is using S-300, AAA system and making many Fake target that Radar and satellite can not recognize the diffrent. Air forces is uneconomical , only use for shock enemy with Kamikaze when the target is out of combat radius range


I'm going as far out to say that Vietnam has no shot against China at all in naval or air warfare. The only resistance I expect from you is if we launch a ground operation, which we probably won't.

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## S10

saurav said:


> So, now we will have threads based on what someone said..Forum moving in right direction..


That "someone" occured to be a PLAAF officer in China, who served as liason to Pakistan previously. He was also active with negotiating with Russians when China purchased Su-27/Su-30 from Russia. Basically, since the Chinese military is quite secretive, he's the only few reliable sources available.

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## cn_habs

Zabanya said:


> Don't be foolish. As ACMA stated, India has had its contribution in the overall development of the SU-30MKI, mostly in the field of avionics. The SU-30MKI, including its engine are manufactured in India under license.
> 
> For simplicity sake, you can check wikipedia:
> Sukhoi Su-30MKI - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Saturn AL-31 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Out of curiosity, is every component fullly made or assembled in India? If the former is true, consider me surprised given the progression of LCA.

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## HROBOS

lawxx said:


> You can choose not to believe that no one is forcing you.


 
How many times have carried out the first Vietnamese Su30 interception? (This is a rhetorical question can not answer.)
Or do you think that Vietnamese should report the results of each flight (for a detailed report in writing to the Chinese comrades.)

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## Nav

Viva_Viet said:


> No bro, I explaned already, our SU-30 or Mig 21 Bison team will be equipted with full missiles, try to find the targets like oil tanker craft and AWACS ( normaly out of combat radius range ) shoot them down, and if Su or Mig teams don't have enough gaz to fly back to the base, so just drop the crafts to the sea and pilot jump out with parachute .
> 
> btw: the best way of defence for small country in mordern warfare is using S-300, AAA system and making many Fake target that Radar and satellite can not recognize the diffrent. Air forces is uneconomical , only use for shock enemy with Kamikaze when the target is out of combat radius range


 
very Ambitious , there are also some counter measure's adopted by Pilots to avoid SAM's like S-300... Better u google it


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## raavan

its a nice iphone app. i have it as well....


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## rcrmj

HROBOS said:


> How many times have carried out the first Vietnamese Su30 interception? (This is a rhetorical question can not answer.)
> Or do you think that Vietnamese should report the results of each flight (for a detailed report in writing to the Chinese comrades.)


 
too bad you cant read chinese, the report showes that PLAAF were doing this kind of 'dill' very often in south China sea, especially targeting vn's SU-27/30```and he didnt put other relevant 'execises' in eastern China sea where J-10s locked on japanese fighters`

of course due to the nature of all these incidents, vn will not report it, as it brings more humiliations to its already angrying nv nationalists`

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## below_freezing

Vietnam should stop provocations of China before it is too late. By making Chinese angry, you will increase the pressure of citizens on the government to go to war. And as you see from this article, the government is much less scared of your airforce than the citizens.

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## Nav

Viva_Viet said:


> No bro, I explaned already, our SU-30 or Mig 21 Bison team will be equipted with full missiles, try to find the targets like oil tanker craft and AWACS ( normaly out of combat radius range ) shoot them down, and if Su or Mig teams don't have enough gaz to fly back to the base, so just drop the crafts to the sea and pilot jump out with parachute .
> 
> btw: the best way of defence for small country in mordern warfare is using S-300, AAA system and making many Fake target that Radar and satellite can not recognize the diffrent. Air forces is uneconomical , only use for shock enemy with Kamikaze when the target is out of combat radius range


 
very Ambitious , there are also some counter measure's adopted by Pilots to avoid SAM's like S-300... Better u google it


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## Nav

Viva_Viet said:


> Hehe, but that's the combat way of VNAF, we did it in Vn war for suicide mission like sunk the Us.war ship with Mig-17 , shot down B-52 with Mig-21 .And now, our AF will do again that funny live shows


 
man that was early 70's and now it's Mid 2011. First of all china dnt want to engage in any confrontation, and if china pushed in any war scenario with vietnam china will rain its missiles over VN to wipe out its defensive sites then Airforce and navy will join the party, when everything PLA Will just defend its Border frm 70's VN gurella's.


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## Nav

Viva_Viet said:


> 1. we have resouces, we can sell them to buy weapon till those resouces run out (still have long time)
> 
> 2. You only have air superiority, it doens't means China can defeat Vn, we still have S-300 and AAA system .
> 
> 3. We don't wanna fight with Mighty China, but we won't let China violate our EEZ.


 
Not To Forget cruise and Ballistic Missiles also Massive chinese Artillery. S-300 needs some one to Opreate them does VN have the capability to Opereate it to its full capability?

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## Viva_Viet

below_freezing said:


> Vietnam should stop provocations of China before it is too late. By making Chinese angry, you will increase the pressure of citizens on the government to go to war. And as you see from this article, the government is much less scared of your airforce than the citizens.


There is No reason to angry with VietNam, you kill our men in 1974, 1988 to occupy those islands, but we still respect you. Those islands be long to VN, we have lots of envidence to prove it. We can keep disputing about those islands for hundred years more, but the EEZ is truly belong to VN base on Unclos.China can not violate our EEZ

My Gov. scare of no one, they wanna respect the big country like CHina, that all, and our AF always use for suicide mission, don't think much of it, pls think more about our S-300 and AAA system.

Thanks for your Gov. concerning about citizens, so, it's better to stop violating our EEZ, so every one can live in peace.


Nav said:


> very Ambitious , there are also some counter measure's adopted by Pilots to avoid SAM's like S-300... Better u google it


Yep, J-craft can avoid S-300, but they can not recognize the diffrent between the Fake and the Real targets, and we gonna make lots of Fake target to waste enemy ammunition.


Nav said:


> Not To Forget cruise and Ballistic Missiles also Massive chinese Artillery. S-300 needs some one to Opreate them does VN have the capability to Opereate it to its full capability?


we've sent men to Russia to learn how to use S-300 long time already, we faced with CHina artillery from 1979 to 1988 and know how to defend already, we also have Scud-D Ballistic Missiles , so we can protect our country well against enemy


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## Stargate

Does Vietnam and China have EMP bombs or other variants in their arsenal?


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## Viva_Viet

Stargate said:


> Does Vietnam and China have EMP bombs or other variants in their arsenal?


 
I don't know VN have or not, but we know how to defend against this boom.We make many Faraday cage already.


> The most effective method is to wholly contain the equipment in an electrically conductive enclosure, termed a Faraday cage, which prevents the electromagnetic field from gaining access to the protected equipment. However, most such equipment must communicate with and be fed with power from the outside world, and this can provide entry points via which electrical transients may enter the enclosure and effect damage. While optical fibres address this requirement for transferring data in and out, electrical power feeds remain an ongoing vulnerability


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## SBD-3

This thread is going down the drain, thanks to not needed contributions. I'd not be surprise if PLAAF prefers J-10 over J-11. A reason being that now usually J-10s are being deployed in potentially hostile regions i.e with Japan and in Tibet etc. This shows the confidence of PLAAF in J-10.


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## Nav

Viva_Viet said:


> There is No reason to angry with VietNam, you kill our men in 1974, 1988 to occupy those islands, but we still respect you. Those islands be long to VN, we have lots of envidence to prove it. We can keep disputing about those islands for hundred years more, but the EEZ is truly belong to VN base on Unclos.China can not violate our EEZ
> 
> My Gov. scare of no one, they wanna respect the big country like CHina, that all, and our AF always use for suicide mission, don't think much of it, pls think more about our S-300 and AAA system.
> 
> Thanks for your Gov. concerning about citizens, so, it's better to stop violating our EEZ, so every one can live in peace.
> 
> Yep, J-craft can avoid S-300, but they can not recognize the diffrent between the Fake and the Real targets, and we gonna make lots of Fake target to waste enemy ammunition.
> we've sent men to Russia to learn how to use S-300 long time already, we faced with CHina artillery from 1979 to 1988 and know how to defend already, we also have Scud-D Ballistic Missiles , so we can protect our country well against enemy


 
all right man you defended vietnam successfully.


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## areal

china surely has such bomb, and vn's obsolete experiences cannot stop it.


Viva_Viet said:


> I don't know VN have or not, but we know how to defend against this boom.We make many Faraday cage already.


----------



## Nowaday

areal said:


> china surely has such bomb, and vn's obsolete experiences cannot stop it.



Vietnam has emp bomb or not? No answer, It is a military secret. I just want to say something: Don't underestimate the opponent.


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## somebozo

please post better translation


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## ChineseTiger1986

hasnain0099 said:


> This thread is going down the drain, thanks to not needed contributions. I'd not be surprise if PLAAF prefers J-10 over J-11. A reason being that now usually J-10s are being deployed in potentially hostile regions i.e with Japan and in Tibet etc. This shows the confidence of PLAAF in J-10.


 
It seems that the Chengdu aviation is now the favorite of PLAAF.


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## Zabaniyah

drunken-monke said:


> Dear Forum Mate from our beloved china,
> 
> Even if an Indian sets foot on Moon you will say that Snake Charmers (Indians Astronauts ) went there for Snake charming at Moon if there are Any. (I know there is no life on Moon.) Guys cant you accept that not only china but even India can build something good and export. State of denial makes some people negative about that person/issue/subject.
> 
> Meanwhile I am in Pharmaceutical research, and belive me, Chinese research and product in this arena is termed as worst in regulated market (US and EU)
> regards
> Drunken Monke
> Shrikant Parwate
> RND Wockhardt Aurangabad.


 
What's pharmaceutical industry got to do with defense and aerospace?

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## rcrmj

drunken-monke said:


> Dear Forum Mate from our beloved china,
> 
> Even if an Indian sets foot on Moon you will say that Snake Charmers (Indians Astronauts ) went there for Snake charming at Moon if there are Any. (I know there is no life on Moon.) Guys cant you accept that not only china but even India can build something good and export. State of denial makes some people negative about that person/issue/subject.
> 
> Meanwhile I am in Pharmaceutical research, and belive me, Chinese research and product in this arena is termed as worst in regulated market (US and EU)
> regards
> Drunken Monke
> Shrikant Parwate
> RND Wockhardt Aurangabad.


 
do you know india is world No1 intellectual violator in Pharmaceutial industry (copy, stealing and faking)? maybe you are just some radom guy selling drugs in shops, but self procalimed as 'Pharmaceutical research'`

and about india sets foot on moon```lets leave this for bollyw00d movie producers ok?

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## drunken-monke

rcrmj said:


> do you know india is world No1 intellectual violator in Pharmaceutial industry (copy, stealing and faking)? maybe you are just some radom guy selling drugs in shops, but self procalimed as 'Pharmaceutical research'`
> 
> and about india sets foot on moon```lets leave this for bollyw00d movie producers ok?


 
Dont tell me about the Intellectual Property Rights.. I am from that Industry. What is the strateguy for Invalidating/first to file/Para 4 and many more is a specialized field, and I am not in that department. I am In Formulation and development. About Chinese Bulk drugs, we know very well and their so called DMF grade material, Worst are they in the market. Example is Liuha Huena (I may have miss-spelled the Organization's name). They do not support in Inpurities and working standard. And I dont have to be certified by you for being called as Researcher. You can check my profile on Linken. 
And why i brought Pharma in picture is because, China or US or India can not be a master of each field.

About India setting foot on Moon, well they have sent Unmanned missions "Chandrayan" to moon and next step is Manned mission. I wont say china is behind India, that would be laughable, infact they are far ahead, but it doesn't mean that India haven't got the balls to do these acheivements or they havent done it.

Regards
PS: Just google my Name "Shrikant Parwate" you would find all about me.


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## kingdurgaking

So the news is finally true?.. I guess Vietnam has got a monkey craft from Russia.. They may not have jammers or good radars... i guess thats where India is going to help.. in addition Vietnam uses the same craft like China... so there is no reason to be surprised with the result... as they get trained against it.. Interesting it will be see what India does with Vietnam 30's .. In addition we should also give some LCA's with American support


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## areal

indian or india, always, has courage to think about their beautiful future or make an excellent plan, but not good at doing something right.
for example, according the current plan that indian has declared, india will sent their manned ship to moon before china, which will be quite impossible. i don't mean indian will never finish such a mission, but why do they think they can do something much quick than chinese without any better basis?



drunken-monke said:


> Dont tell me about the Intellectual Property Rights.. I am from that Industry. What is the strateguy for Invalidating/first to file/Para 4 and many more is a specialized field, and I am not in that department. I am In Formulation and development. About Chinese Bulk drugs, we know very well and their so called DMF grade material, Worst are they in the market. Example is Liuha Huena (I may have miss-spelled the Organization's name). They do not support in Inpurities and working standard. And I dont have to be certified by you for being called as Researcher. You can check my profile on Linken.
> And why i brought Pharma in picture is because, China or US or India can not be a master of each field.
> 
> About India setting foot on Moon, well they have sent Unmanned missions "Chandrayan" to moon and next step is Manned mission. I wont say china is behind India, that would be laughable, infact they are far ahead, but it doesn't mean that India haven't got the balls to do these acheivements or they havent done it.
> 
> Regards
> PS: Just google my Name "Shrikant Parwate" you would find all about me.


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## areal

forget about LCA, even indian air force unwilling to use it.
in addition, i don't believe this news, and dislike it at all. it is useless to play such a game. 



kingdurgaking said:


> So the news is finally true?.. I guess Vietnam has got a monkey craft from Russia.. They may not have jammers or good radars... i guess thats where India is going to help.. in addition Vietnam uses the same craft like China... so there is no reason to be surprised with the result... as they get trained against it.. Interesting it will be see what India does with Vietnam 30's .. In addition we should also give some LCA's with American support


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## DARKY

kingdurgaking said:


> So the news is finally true?.. I guess Vietnam has got a monkey craft from Russia.. They may not have jammers or good radars... i guess thats where India is going to help.. in addition Vietnam uses the same craft like China... so there is no reason to be surprised with the result... as they get trained against it.. Interesting it will be see what India does with Vietnam 30's .. In addition we should also give some LCA's with American support


 
You know what I have observing this thread from yesterday........and can't help laughing.........Chinese AWACS are so pathetic that they could not even provide a solid lock on huge flankers.......that to being flown by amateur Vietnamese pilots........such a shame that they broke the lock 9 times.....even without any proper electronics on board......I wonder what would happen if they are armed with IBRIS-E, SAP 518, SAP 14, Mayavi, Elta jammers and Novator which would shoot the Chinese AWACS from 400km......and J-10A would be a feast for even amateur and roorkie Vietnamese pilots flying Su 30MK2.

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## drunken-monke

areal said:


> forget about LCA, even indian air force unwilling to use it.
> in addition, i don't believe this news, and dislike it at all. it is useless to play such a game.


 
Tiil date no LCA has been crashed, unlike our mighty neighbour (truely from heart) where crash landing of their prototype is never reported (Although few have crashed).

IAF settng higher standard for LCA thats why It got delayed. But that doesnt mean that current or Mk2 version of Tejas wont bring down any intruder accross the border. Likewise I also have repsect for JFT.

regards


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## drunken-monke

areal said:


> indian or india, always, has courage to think about their beautiful future or make an excellent plan, but not good at doing something right.
> for example, according the current plan that indian has declared, india will sent their manned ship to moon before china, which will be quite impossible. i don't mean indian will never finish such a mission, but why do they think they can do something much quick than chinese without any better basis?


 
Where did I mentioned that China is incapable of such missions. I clearly mentioned that China is far ahead of India In many aspects but not all.

regards


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## areal

i don't mean what you said, i mean those plans declared by india gov. and some reports from india medias.



drunken-monke said:


> Where did I mentioned that China is incapable of such missions. I clearly mentioned that China is far ahead of India In many aspects but not all.
> 
> regards


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## areal

to maintain secrecy, development or progress of military aircrafts will not be disclosed, or not all disclosed. china need not those bragging media to demonstrate how powerful china is like some other country.
LCA has been disposed, no crash report means nothing, maybe it is not really used even in training.



drunken-monke said:


> Tiil date no LCA has been crashed, unlike our mighty neighbour (truely from heart) where crash landing of their prototype is never reported (Although few have crashed).
> 
> IAF settng higher standard for LCA thats why It got delayed. But that doesnt mean that current or Mk2 version of Tejas wont bring down any intruder accross the border. Likewise I also have repsect for JFT.
> 
> regards


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## Zabaniyah

DARKY said:


> You know what I have observing this thread from yesterday........and can't help laughing.........Chinese AWACS are so pathetic that they could not even provide a solid lock on huge flankers.......that to being flown by amateur Vietnamese pilots........such a shame that they broke the lock 9 times.....even without any proper electronics on board......I wonder what would happen if they are armed with IBRIS-E, SAP 518, SAP 14, Mayavi, Elta jammers and Novator which would shoot the Chinese AWACS from 400km......and J-10A would be a feast for even amateur and roorkie Vietnamese pilots flying Su 30MK2.


 
Didn't understand a thing you said.


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## kingdurgaking

areal said:


> forget about LCA, even indian air force unwilling to use it.
> in addition, i don't believe this news, and dislike it at all. it is useless to play such a game.


 
Who said IAF is not willing to use it.. Have some commensense.. if IAF is not willing why development and testing is still going on?.. why MK-2 is proposed.. As far as Vietnam is consider we have to give them Mk-2 only.. it will have huge payload and great agility and super firepower.. If US says yes to the engine.. India should bridge friendship between vietnam and America...


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## kingdurgaking

areal said:


> to maintain secrecy, development or progress of military aircrafts will not be disclosed, or not all disclosed. china need not those bragging media to demonstrate how powerful china is like some other country.
> LCA has been disposed, no crash report means nothing, maybe it is not really used even in training.


 
Cool dude.. you have got all the inner data... and the reality ... To understand LCA you have to first India.. to understand India you have to understand democracy...

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## kingdurgaking

DARKY said:


> You know what I have observing this thread from yesterday........and can't help laughing.........Chinese AWACS are so pathetic that they could not even provide a solid lock on huge flankers.......that to being flown by amateur Vietnamese pilots........such a shame that they broke the lock 9 times.....even without any proper electronics on board......I wonder what would happen if they are armed with IBRIS-E, SAP 518, SAP 14, Mayavi, Elta jammers and Novator which would shoot the Chinese AWACS from 400km......and J-10A would be a feast for even amateur and roorkie Vietnamese pilots flying Su 30MK2.


 
Su 30MK2 is not an air superiority fighter.. it is a kind of marine bomber.. Further PLAAF taking lock is no big deal because they already posses such a product in there inventory... so they knew what is how... If Vietnam has approached India for help.. things will change dramatically.. We can upgrade there airframe with the necessary Avionics and bring to a standard of MKM and with training it would bloster the vietnam performance.. We should also provide them with Tejas MK-2 if possible.. it is cheaper and has got capacity equal to J-10 ...

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## houshanghai

kingdurgaking said:


> Who said IAF is not willing to use it.. Have some commensense.. if IAF is not willing why development and testing is still going on?.. why MK-2 is proposed.. As far as Vietnam is consider we have to give them Mk-2 only.. it will have huge payload and great agility and super firepower.. If US says yes to the engine.. India should bridge friendship between vietnam and America...


 j10 have been serviced in PLAAF for 10 years olds
however LCA 1 is still a paper plane now.mk-2 is even only a basic concept in Drawing-board .so plz your indians don't talk about your paper plane in this thread.

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## kingdurgaking

self delete... a retard thing done in my life


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## houshanghai

kingdurgaking said:


> You need to upgrade your dictionary on what is paper plane and what is a real fighter... then you will understand what is LCA and its real power


 

I have no desire to discuss your LCA "mirage' trainer in here


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## cn_habs

kingdurgaking said:


> Cool dude.. you have got all the inner data... and the reality ... To understand LCA you have to first India.. to understand India you have to understand democracy...


 
According to UN, there are more citizens in extreme poverty in a country than the entire African continent where millions of kids die in the slums on an annual basis and infants suffer extreme malnutrition. 
*
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the world biggest democracy. *


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## areal

according to indian media, at least, lca has been delivered to indian air force who can bear dozens of crash every year. 


houshanghai said:


> I have no desire to discuss your LCA "mirage' trainer in here


----------



## kingdurgaking

cn_habs said:


> According to UN, there are more citizens in extreme poverty in a country than the entire African continent where millions of kids die in the slums on an annual basis and infants suffer extreme malnutrition.
> *
> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the world biggest democracy. *



Another one here ... who is talking about poverty lol.. you guys cant stop right.. you know LCA will be a headache.. especially when vietnam is armed with it

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## areal

maybe india air force has more headache about lca than pk. 
don't talk to china, china doesn't care any india aircraft plan. all of such plans are actually welcome by chinese, as all of them have been show headache of india air force.


kingdurgaking said:


> Another one here ... who is talking about poverty lol.. you guys cant stop right.. you know LCA will be a headache.. especially when vietnam is armed with it


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## SomeGuy

DARKY said:


> You know what I have observing this thread from yesterday........and can't help laughing.........Chinese AWACS are so pathetic that they could not even provide a solid lock on huge flankers.......that to being flown by amateur Vietnamese pilots........such a shame that they broke the lock 9 times.....even without any proper electronics on board......I wonder what would happen if they are armed with IBRIS-E, SAP 518, SAP 14, Mayavi, Elta jammers and Novator which would shoot the Chinese AWACS from 400km......and J-10A would be a feast for even amateur and roorkie Vietnamese pilots flying Su 30MK2.



How did you come to the conclusion that the Chinese AWACS are pathetic?

AWACS are usually used to detect targets at long range and direct fighters to these targets.
However, it is usually the combination of the missiles guidance system and the fighters fire-control radar that gives a lock.

The Su-30's may have broken the missile lock themselves, or it could have been the case that the J-10 pilots were simply toying with them and playing psychological mind-games. The OP did mention the Su-30 pilots losing much confidence and becoming demoralised.

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## SomeGuy

AMCA said:


> Not to worry Vietnam, get your aircrafts parked here in India and we will be glad to enhance electronic warfare capability of Su 30's to MKI standards..


 
Wouldn't that just give the Chinese an opportunity to probe the EW capabilities of the MKI?


----------



## chineseman

drunken-monke said:


> Tiil date no LCA has been crashed, unlike our mighty neighbour (truely from heart) where crash landing of their prototype is never reported (Although few have crashed).
> 
> IAF settng higher standard for LCA thats why It got delayed. But that doesnt mean that current or Mk2 version of Tejas wont bring down any intruder accross the border. Likewise I also have repsect for JFT.
> 
> regards


 
think about the resources available to you, and think about us, we really design it on our own, and relatively, you indian could gain lot's of techinical supports from many contries. for that, we are really proud of our new fighters. you may say, copy or reverse engineering, and I wanna say is you can do the same, and apart from those, you can still get many extra help. so the situations you and we face are different, even the crash happened, we Chinese ppl don't feel ashamed of it, because we know the road of development was rugged full of ups and downs, but eventually we make it. we are proud of it .


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## rockstarIN

cn_habs said:


> According to UN, there are more citizens in extreme poverty in a country than the entire African continent where millions of kids die in the slums on an annual basis and infants suffer extreme malnutrition.
> *
> Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the world biggest democracy. *



It is good to outside in poverty than inside a golden cage... well, it has to experience..


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## SomeGuy

DARKY said:


> You guys are pathetic........*your pilots attempt 10 times to lock on a flanker sized plane that to with the help of AWACS datalinks and fail 9 times*.......and you come here to give an argument that they were toying........*what do you think kid the pilots out there play some spookie doopy cartoon game....or what*.......*and on top of that such a hilarious claim that Vietnamese pilots were demoralized.....did they call you back there in China that they are demoralized or scared even after evading the lock 9 times*.....heck in real war scenario the J-10 even would loose all AAMs and end up being shot down by a single AAM from the Vietnamese side.........you guys are epic to come out with such lame and funny arguments.



My friend you are jumping to (wrong) conclusions. I'm just going by whatever is in the OP.

The OP doesn't say anything about J-10's failing to get a lock, in fact it says they locked on a dozen times.
Nowhere in the OP does it say that the Su-30's were able to evade the lock.
Why do you try to mock me when I mention psychological mindgames? I mean, what else would you call it when you can lock onto someone at will and they can't even find you?
The OP also says something about Chinese being able to communicate with the vietnamese and having an amicable discussion.

I've highlighted the parts you should pay attention to:



lawxx said:


> Vietnam SU - 30 by J - 10 Lock 10 times
> News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
> According to him: Vietnam June 13 exercises, j-10 in the South Vietnamese Air Force over the lock, "Thang Long" division of a SU-30 four-plane formation in Viet Nam can not find the J-10's case, *J -10 with the fire control radar to lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked s-30 at least twice.* At the same time, also cut more aircraft formation with the ground command center of the radio communications, and *forcibly inserted into the communication channel, and more pilots on the good-neighborly friendly relations with the Chinese started a warm and amicable discussion*.
> 
> Ô½ÄÏÔö¹º20¼ÜËÕ-30MK2Õ½»ú Ê×Åú4¼ÜÒÑ½»¸¶ - µÚ3Ò³ - ¾üÊÂ³©Ì¸ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛÌ³
> 
> "Pupu" the contents of the original words:
> 
> """Pupu" the last paragraph of the original meaning of words is:*the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock.Vietnam combat pilot almost lost confidence*. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.,


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## ChineseTiger1986

Vietnam can't afford to play with these toys, so Su-30MK2 will still become useless for them to put it against China.


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## AMCA

SomeGuy said:


> Wouldn't that just give the Chinese an opportunity to probe the EW capabilities of the MKI?


 
End of the day it all depends on the pilot.....so no chance of a probe


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## AMCA

Broccoli said:


> They can't do that.
> 
> All those electronics come from outside India, you can't sell something what you don't have.


 
Interesting piece of quote, but MKI uses Indian EWS and Avionics.....Refer post#79, the Russians as promised have made us self sufficient in Su-30MKI....


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## kawaraj

Russia made is slowly rotten, also be aware the Russians always make troubles to the buyer to blackmail more money.

Indian friend should know that well.


----------



## AMCA

kawaraj said:


> Russia made is slowly , also be aware the Russians always make troubles to the buyer to blackmail more money.
> 
> Indian friend should know that well.


 
Well, they do not have a cheap labor, thats mainly why we Co produce with them.... And get full TOT... Get there help build facilities here to do the necessary..


----------



## Viva_Viet

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Vietnam can't afford to play with these toys, so Su-30MK2 will still become useless for them to put it against China.


 
Hehe, It's not the real combat, and you Chinese happy so soon.Even we can't afford to play with these toys, but we can use for some impossible mission to shock enemy 

Mig 17, Mig 21 are no match with F-4, but we still could do some thing to USAF

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## areal

the most interesting thing is, though having known it well, india still does shopping in russia.



kawaraj said:


> Russia made is slowly rotten, also be aware the Russians always make troubles to the buyer to blackmail more money.
> 
> Indian friend should know that well.

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## areal

yes, a PLA pilot in vietnam army suit who can operate mig to defeat usa air force, that's vientnam really got and was looking for during the war.


Viva_Viet said:


> Hehe, It's not the real combat, and you Chinese happy so soon.Even we can't afford to play with these toys, but we can use for some impossible mission to shock enemy
> 
> Mig 17, Mig 21 are no match with F-4, but we still could do some thing to USAF

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## areal

i am seeing a good indian who give every care to their russian seller.
why russian didn't ask for even more money for the gift carrier?


AMCA said:


> Well, they do not have a cheap labor, thats mainly why we Co produce with them.... And get full TOT... Get there help build facilities here to do the necessary..


----------



## drunken-monke

areal said:


> i don't mean what you said, i mean those plans declared by india gov. and some reports from india medias.


 
Whatever I will post, You will surely defy it by something or other.. Its worthless to disscuss with this thing. I know I can be quite hard for you to digest that India can do something really good such like this.. \

China cant be a leader in each field, I must repeat again. They are really good but not the best

regards


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## AMCA

areal said:


> the most interesting thing is, though having known it well, india still does shopping in russia.


 
Well.... As if you dont


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## AMCA

areal said:


> i am seeing a good indian who give every care to their russian seller.
> why russian didn't ask for even more money for the gift carrier?


 
Well brother, If you have itching, you are free to scratch, but why scratch my back instead?


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## drunken-monke

areal said:


> i am seeing a good indian who give every care to their russian seller.
> why russian didn't ask for even more money for the gift carrier?


 
I agree that Ruskies charge more latter on.. Moreover if we go further, the official story is that some refurbishment have costed a lot.. Remember guyz in this world nothing is for free.. No country care even if the other is dying.. 

By the way why My chinese friends find even a small pinhole to bash the Indian achievements..

And congrats to all chinese members creating the marvals that china have brought in to reality..


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## drunken-monke

areal said:


> the most interesting thing is, though having known it well, india still does shopping in russia.


 
And all thoese Russian aircraft parts (Engines) which they use in their fighter jets are created out of thin air..

Something advanced magic like thing chinese have developed i guess so!!!


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## rcrmj

drunken-monke said:


> And all thoese Russian aircraft parts (Engines) which they use in their fighter jets are created out of thin air..
> 
> Something advanced magic like thing chinese have developed i guess so!!!


 
upgraded SAAB JAS-39 uses foreign engine, and american AV-8B uses english engine, japanese F-2 uses foreign engine and many many more``but i dont get why such a big deal of chinese having few hunderds russian engine in PLAAF fleet? 

whereas, without foreign design, all the spare parts, radar, weapons, FBWs, engine and avionic there woudnt be the existance of IAF...look at your won inventory now, which one is 100% india? not even the 5.56mm and 5.45mm caliber rounds used for your rifles`

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## DARKY

SomeGuy said:


> My friend you are jumping to (wrong) conclusions. I'm just going by whatever is in the OP.
> 
> The OP doesn't say anything about J-10's failing to get a lock, in fact it says *they locked on a dozen times*.
> Nowhere in the OP does it say that the Su-30's were able to evade the lock.
> Why do you try to mock me when I mention psychological mindgames? I mean, what else would you call it when you can lock onto someone at will and they can't even find you?
> The OP also says something about Chinese being able to communicate with the vietnamese and having an amicable discussion.
> 
> I've highlighted the parts you should pay attention to:



1st we don't lock on any thing which is already locked so you can lock 12 times only if it is broken 11 times......now what I am asking what kind of avionics does J-10 contain that even degraded electronics were able to break the lock a dozen times that to with an amateur Vietnamese pilot............and about the confidence part......a professional doesn't show their moral and emotions on the battle feild.



Jungibaaz said:


> kid this aint a video game, *radar locks are broken and gained.*
> 
> the fact that a *J-10 locked on to it after 10 evasions* is a fail by the Flanker pilot



Try doing that in a battlefield and I'll pary for you..........do you even know what a real combat situation demands......failing the to lock even 3-4 times and would end the game for you.......and what makes it even pathetic is that AWACS datalink was being used.......plus the newbie Vietnamese pilot on a downgraded flanker.


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## drunken-monke

rcrmj said:


> upgraded SAAB JAS-39 uses foreign engine, and american AV-8B uses english engine, japanese F-2 uses foreign engine and many many more``but i dont get why such a big deal of chinese having few hunderds russian engine in PLAAF fleet?
> 
> whereas, without foreign design, all the spare parts, radar, weapons, FBWs, engine and avionic there woudnt be the existance of IAF...look at your won inventory now, which one is 100% india? not even the 5.56mm and 5.45mm caliber rounds used for your rifles`


 
Dude no offence but I was just replying to somthing that my sino friend posted in this very same thread.. And I agree u to a some extent of ur post apart from thoes 5.56mm and 5.45mm caliber rounds thing.. Ur argument is incorrect and flawed... Ordnance factories in India produce a lot of ordanance indeginously.. Example INSAS rifle and their rounds.. This is for your kind information..

regards


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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> 1st we don't lock on any thing which is already locked so you can lock 12 times only if it is broken 11 times......now what I am asking what kind of avionics does J-10 contain that even degraded electronics were able to break the lock a dozen times that to with an amateur Vietnamese pilot............and about the confidence part......a professional doesn't show their moral and emotions on the battle feild.



How do you know the lock was broken ten times.. or it was locked on on ten different occasions??
Reaching demeaning conclusions based on a single sentence??



DARKY said:


> Try doing that in a battlefield and I'll pary for you..........do you even know what a real combat situation demands......failing the to lock even 3-4 times and would end the game for you.......and what makes it even pathetic is that AWACS datalink was being used.......plus the newbie Vietnamese pilot on a downgraded flanker.


 
How do you know that??
Why is using an AWACS datalink pathetic?? I find it innovative, especially in a real combat situation.. to be able to get target data quicker..
the Americans use something called JTIDS.. unless they are pathetic too.. in which case , you can keep your definition of Air combat with yourself.

How do you know the Viet flanker is downgraded vs the Chinese Flanker.. and the pilot was a newbie??
Do you have intel sources or something?? Blog??.. Dr Kopp maybe?? 
You arent opinionated.. you are biased.. and that bias is making some really weird claims here.

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## rcrmj

i guess he has the inside info of that incident`according to the way he talks`!

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## SomeGuy

DARKY said:


> 1st we don't lock on any thing which is already locked so you can lock 12 times only if it is broken 11 times......now what I am asking what kind of avionics does J-10 contain that even degraded electronics were able to break the lock a dozen times that to with an amateur Vietnamese pilot............and about the confidence part......a professional doesn't show their moral and emotions on the battle feild.


 


Santro said:


> How do you know the lock was broken ten times.. or it was locked on on ten different occasions??
> Reaching demeaning conclusions based on a single sentence??



Exactly, the OP mentions that the locks were continuous, so by that you can interpret that it was locked on a dozen different occasions, rather than broken 11 times.



lawxx said:


> "Pupu" the last paragraph of the original meaning of words is:*the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock.Vietnam combat pilot almost lost confidence*. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.


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## Rechoice

SomeGuy said:


> Exactly, the OP mentions that the locks were continuous, so by that you can interpret that it was locked on a dozen different occasions, rather than broken 11 times.



I agree with you. This post on PDF is for joke.


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## houshanghai

VAF haven't any advanced air combat system and multi-agent System

poor VAF only have several su30mkk.

It is impossible to win PLAAF


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## Viva_Viet

houshanghai said:


> VAF haven't any advanced air combat system and multi-agent System
> 
> poor VAF only have several su30mkk.
> 
> It is impossible to win PLAAF


 
Yep, it's impposible for VNAF to win PLAAF coz VN don't have enough money to spend in AF, but VNAF is not your main opponent, S-300, AAA system and fake target are your Biggest obstacle


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## houshanghai

Viva_Viet said:


> Yep, it's impposible for VNAF to win PLAAF coz VN don't have enough money to spend in AF, but VNAF is not your main opponent, S-300, AAA system and fake target are your Biggest obstacle


you spoke N times about your S-300, AAA system and fake target in this thread


you know we have countless j7 uavs . it is very easy to find them .then these aim will be utterly destroyed by intermediate range ballistic missile.


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## Viva_Viet

houshanghai said:


> you spoke N times about your S-300, AAA system and fake target in this thread
> 
> 
> you know we have countless j7 uav . it is very easy to find them .then these aim will be utterly destroyedby intermediate range ballistic missile.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ]


What is this ??it's your Mig 21 ??During Border conflic, you could not recognize the diffrent between the Real and the Fake , now you think this Craft can help you ??


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## houshanghai

Viva_Viet said:


> What is this ??it's your Mig 21 ??During Border conflic, you could not recognize the diffrent between the Real and the Fake , now you think this Craft can help you ??


 
you know we still have EW's means.All your vietnam 's S-300, AAA system will have no function in face of PLAAF

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## luckyyy

DARKY said:


> 1st we don't lock on any thing which is already locked so you can lock 12 times only if it is broken 11 times......now what I am asking what kind of avionics does J-10 contain that even degraded electronics were able to break the lock a dozen times that to with an amateur Vietnamese pilot............and about the confidence part......a professional doesn't show their moral and emotions on the battle feild.
> 
> 
> 
> Try doing that in a battlefield and I'll pary for you..........do you even know what a real combat situation demands......failing the to lock even 3-4 times and would end the game for you.......and what makes it even pathetic is that AWACS datalink was being used.......plus the newbie Vietnamese pilot on a downgraded flanker.


 
first of all the news has no reliability , it was just a message/post by a member on a militry forum ,* by someones own convenience it's proclaimed to be a insider *, funny , isn't it..


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## Viva_Viet

houshanghai said:


> you know we still have EW's means.All your vietnam 's S-300, AAA system will have no function in face of PLAAF


, Oki, now I know why your Gov. ban the foreign website, coz if they don't ban, Chinese will realize that: They're not Powerfull as they think 

Even you craft can avoid S-300 and AAA system, it still can not recognize the diffrent between Fake and Real target, so PLAAF just watse their boom like during border conflic time, and that means: China will waste money for Nothing


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## ptldM3

Pakchina said:


> The Bollywoodaydreamers and No1 Weapons importer have contributed nothing, *all avionics and software of the SU-30MKI are Israelis*, made by Israel and imported from Israel. If India was so good in manufacturing avionics, it would not have imported all its weapons and technology from the West, while it would have long been able to manufacture its own aircraft, buillet train while in the case of China, despite western technological embargoes it has been able to produce its own bulltet train, constructing the longest world sea bridge, and producing mostly its own weaponry and technology. Even in the case of civil software China will surpass India.





Almost none of the avionics are Israeli.






S10 said:


> That "someone" occured to be a PLAAF officer in China, who served as liason to Pakistan previously. He was also active with negotiating with Russians when China purchased Su-27/Su-30 from Russia. Basically, since the Chinese military is quite secretive, he's the only few reliable sources available.






For a country with such tight censorship and internet regulation I find it strange that this supposed PLAAF officer is divulging such information.






ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Vietnam can't afford to play with these toys, so Su-30MK2 will still become useless for them to put it against China.




Utter nonsense.





kawaraj said:


> Russia made is slowly rotten, also be aware the Russians always make troubles to the buyer to blackmail more money.
> 
> Indian friend should know that well.








If I do recall correctly the JF-17's radar was based off of a Zhuk radar.






SomeGuy said:


> How did you come to the conclusion that the Chinese AWACS are pathetic?
> 
> AWACS are usually used to detect targets at long range and direct fighters to these targets.
> However, it is usually the combination of the missiles guidance system and the fighters fire-control radar that gives a lock.
> 
> *The Su-30's may have broken the missile lock themselves*, or it could have been the case that the J-10 pilots were simply toying with them and *playing psychological mind-games*.





The part about the mind games, if true, just demonstrates a level of unprofessionalism and sheer stupidity. Now for the J-10, awacs, and SU-30. The Chinese do operate the same aircraft as the Vietnamese so they know the radars frequency, thus jamming it should not be too difficult, of course this all depending on the Vietnamese.

More interesting is that pupu claimed the SU-30 to be continuously locked but it also states that the SU-30 was locked a dozen times, obviously either the OP translated something incorrectly of pupu got tangled in his own web of lies.

Firstly it would not be difficult for a formation of SU-30's to jam or deceive J-10's even if they lacked decent electronic counter measures (ECM). One of the simplest ways would be to use chaffs, this would confuse the J-10's radar by causing a spike(s), although some radars may recognize these counter measures, so with the advent of chaffs pupu's statement of a continuous lock is starting to look suspicious.

Now let us look at radar resolutions, every radar has a resolution, the higher the better. The article mentioned that the SU-30 flew in formation of four. When a formation of aircraft is flown a high resolution radar should be able to distinguish each aircraft apart from one another, if the formation is too close or the radar has a poor resolution then the radar will not identify each aircraft. Again the article is self contradicting, one hand it is a continuous lock and on the other hand the SU-30 was locked a dozen times. If the SU-30's were locked a dozen times then it is safe to say that they disrupted the J-10's radar from locking. Similarly if the SU-30 was in a tight enough formation than the J-10's radar would have difficulty picking up the individual aircraft, in tern the SU-30's would be able to get closer without being 'locked', from there IR missiles may be used if range permits.


The article also makes it clear that the SU-30's were aware that they were locked, this implies that their radar warning receivers (RWR) alerted them, yet the article claims that the Su-30's were not able to find the J-10's, which is odd considering a radar RWR was probably what alerted the SU-30's and the SU-30's RWR can identify targets. Then of course is the SU-30's own jammers which can employ a number of different jamming techniques. Can the J-10 lock onto the SU-30 and jam its radar? Yes, can the SU-30 disrupt the J-10's ability to lock on? Yes. It's up to the reader to interpret this 'insiders' claim anyway they like.




SomeGuy said:


> The OP did mention the Su-30 pilots losing much confidence and becoming demoralised.




And he know this how? Did the Vietnamese pilots share their inner most deepest thoughts? This is nothing more than propaganda at it finest.

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## S10

ptldM3 said:


> For a country with such tight censorship and internet regulation I find it strange that this supposed PLAAF officer is divulging such information.


Did he reveal any sensitive details? No.

All he did was stated J-10 toyed with Vietnamese Su-30s at will and kept their radars jammed throughout the entire incident. Considering China had operated Su-30 since the mid 1990's, knowing their weaknesses is nothing to be surprised about.


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## ptldM3

S10 said:


> Did he reveal any sensitive details? No.
> 
> All he did was stated J-10 toyed with Vietnamese Su-30s at will and kept their radars jammed throughout the entire incident. Considering China had operated Su-30 since the mid 1990's, knowing their weaknesses is nothing to be surprised about.


 
I never used the word 'sensitive', but if the incident really did happen it is not something you would want to reveal. Word travels fast, the last thing you would want would be politicians and other government officials to see this incident as a provocation that may warrant a response, or a modernization/build up of the military.


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## S10

ptldM3 said:


> I never used the word 'sensitive', but if the incident really did happen it is not something you would want to reveal. Word travels fast, the last thing you would want would be politicians and other government officials to see this incident as a provocation that may warrant a response, or a modernization/build up of the military.


Here is another bit he revealed. It was planned to bring Vietnamese to the negotiating table by letting them know they're outmatched even at their doorsteps. It worked, since Vietnamese defence minister went to negotiate in Bejing the very next week. 

It was no more provocative than Vietnam's live fire drill recently. I wouldn't be too concerned about reprecussions, since no official news reported it. If a sh*t storm does kick up, both sides can simply say internet myth. Vietnam did try to modernize after the incident. Went to Russia almost immediately to improved their countermeasure capability to jamming. When they could not afford the price tag, they asked the Indians for help. 

Actually now that I think about it, he did reveal a little too much.

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## houshanghai

lol bcz this monumental failure of air combat with PLAAF. Your vietnam's great general had been appointed to approach our chiefs of staff maxiaotian and *sue for peace* in BEIJING.

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## DARKY

Santro said:


> How do you know the lock was broken ten times.. or it was locked on on ten different occasions??
> Reaching demeaning conclusions based on *a single sentence*??



The same very sentence is being used idiotically to claim that J-10's superiority over Su 30MK2 by some Chinese boys.......what makes it even funnier is that the same Su 30MK2 is the best available combat plane in the PLAAF.......and on top of that the confidence part.



> How do you know that??
> *Why is using an AWACS datalink pathetic??* I find it innovative, especially in a real combat situation.. to be able to get target data quicker..
> the Americans use something called JTIDS.. unless they are pathetic too.. in which case , you can keep your definition of Air combat with yourself.




Use of AWACS means J-10s had all the time in the world to flank the Su 30MK2 without being noticed.......upto such an extent that they won't be able to disengage the Su 30MK2 from a solid lock.......even high quality data feed of the position of flankers would've been available via powerful AESA radars being used onboard the AWACS.......plus high Intensity ECM to literally jam the electronics on Su 30MK2.......yet they fail to lock 11 times and finally get a good lock on 12th attempt as mentioned by some Chinese boys and ''Papu'' who ever he is.......just wondering the case when the opponent would have AWACS killer AAMs and proper electronic onboard with AWACS support......what would J-10 jockeys would do......I guess Its not hard to understand that with even pea sized brain.



> *How do you know the Viet flanker is downgraded vs the Chinese Flanker*.. and the pilot was a newbie??
> Do you have intel sources or something?? Blog??.. Dr Kopp maybe??
> You arent opinionated.. you are biased.. and that bias is making some really weird claims here.


 
Russians don't sell high quality equipment to 3rd world countries and Its easy to understand why......
......The Su 30Mk2 are new to Vietnamese Airforce and I don't think that they even manage 50-80 hours/annum on them thanks to their economic conditions.......where as a flanker jockey without 1000+ hours on the bird with atleast 150-200 hours/ammun is called a newbie......they aren't F-16......that even lesser training would do.
Source??go through all the posts in this thread and ''Papu'' who ever that guy is....
And again we have Copp for the 3rd time............why don't you read his works on J-10.....and Chinese radar and SAM systems.......or wait I'll personally mail him to write an article on JF-17......


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## DARKY

SomeGuy said:


> Exactly, the OP mentions that the locks were continuous, so by that you can interpret that it was locked on a dozen different occasions, rather than broken 11 times.


 
Whe whole news by this guy PAPU is utter BS.............if english is the language what I read here.....


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## S10

DARKY said:


> The same very sentence is being used idiotically to claim that J-10's superiority over Su 30MK2 by some Chinese boys.......what makes it even funnier is that the same Su 30MK2 is the best available combat plane in the PLAAF.......and on top of that the confidence part.


The original wording is &#8220;&#36830;&#32493;&#8221;&#65292;contineous lock. As far as the claim that Su-30MK2 is the best available in PLAAF, LOL! PLAAF doesn't even operate them and they are certainly NOT the best.



> Use of AWACS means J-10s had all the time in the world to flank the Su 30MK2 without being noticed.......upto such an extent that they won't be able to disengage the Su 30MK2 from a solid lock.......even high quality data feed of the position of flankers would've been available via powerful AESA radars being used onboard the AWACS.......plus high Intensity ECM to literally jam the electronics on Su 30MK2.......yet they fail to lock 11 times and finally get a good lock on 12th attempt as mentioned by some Chinese boys and ''Papu'' who ever he is.......just wondering the case when the opponent would have AWACS killer AAMs and proper electronic onboard with AWACS support......what would J-10 jockeys would do......I guess Its not hard to understand that with even pea sized brain.


First of all, the lock on was contineous. Second, the Vietnamese Su-30s were jammed throughout. I wonder how they're planning to locate our AWACS, let alone shoot it down when they're completely blinded by our electronic countermeasure suites. Pull out their pistols and shoot?



> Russians don't sell high quality equipment to 3rd world countries and Its easy to understand why......
> ......The Su 30Mk2 are new to Vietnamese Airforce and I don't think that they even manage 50-80 hours/annum on them thanks to their economic conditions.......where as a flanker jockey without 1000+ hours on the bird with atleast 150-200 hours/ammun is called a newbie......they aren't F-16......that even lesser training would do.
> Source??go through all the posts in this thread and ''Papu'' who ever that guy is....
> And again we have Copp for the 3rd time............why don't you read his works on J-10.....and Chinese radar and SAM systems.......or wait I'll personally mail him to write an article on JF-17......


The air division that operates Vietnamese Su-30's are the best air division in Vietnamese air force. If they're being outmatched easily, then they're not exactly a challenge to China.

I've already mentioned who pupu is in other threads, so don't feel like explaining it again.


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## DARKY

S10 said:


> The original wording is &#8220;&#36830;&#32493;&#8221;&#65292;*contineous lock*.



So how could they lock 12 times if it was locked continuesly..........does the J-10 use some alien technology that makes then lock an object which is already locked.



> As far as the claim that Su-30MK2 is the best available in PLAAF, LOL! *PLAAF doesn't even operate them* and they are certainly NOT the best.



......are you from China or some false flagger
TemplateLAAF Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
look in the fighter section......and what is the best then a RE copy??



> First of all, the lock on was contineous. Second, the Vietnamese Su-30s were jammed throughout. I wonder how they're planning to locate our AWACS, let alone shoot it down when they're completely blinded by our electronic countermeasure suites. Pull out their pistols and shoot?



There are some thing called Radar Warning Receiver........but who am I explaining 



> The air division that operates Vietnamese Su-30's are the best air division in Vietnamese air force. If they're being outmatched easily, then they're not exactly a challenge to China.
> 
> I've already mentioned who pupu is in other threads, so don't feel like explaining it again.



If they are not a challenge then why were J-10s with AWACS send to monitor them......your superduper Mig 21 copy or UAV would've done the work.......why waste so much oil, money and time......you guys are really epic.....


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## S10

DARKY said:


> So how could they lock 12 times if it was locked continuesly..........does the J-10 use some alien technology that makes then lock an object which is already locked.


Locked 12 times? I don't see that number anywhere in the original text. Did your Indian mind invent that?



> ......are you from China or some false flagger
> TemplateLAAF Aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> look in the fighter section......and what is the best then a RE copy??


Well most Indians are ignorant enough not to know that PLAAF does not operate Su-30s. All Su-30's belong to PLAN, and depending on wikipedia shows that ignorance. The Su-30 used by naval aviation has one role and one role only, maritime strike. They're quite clumbersome in air combat as their frames were reinforced to provide for extra payload.



> There are some thing called Radar Warning Receiver........but who am I explaining


Are you implying Vietnamese can achieve target lock through RWR? That's a first.



> If they are not a challenge then why were J-10s with AWACS send to monitor them......your superduper Mig 21 copy or UAV would've done the work.......why waste so much oil, money and time......you guys are really epic.....


Was Iraqi or Serbian airforce challenges for NATO? Why did NATO waste all that AWACS and EW aircraft on them? But hey, enjoy that Indian mind of yours.

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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> The same very sentence is being used idiotically to claim that J-10's superiority over Su 30MK2 by some Chinese boys.......what makes it even funnier is that the same Su 30MK2 is the best available combat plane in the PLAAF.......and on top of that the confidence part.


 
Perharps it is better.. perhaps it isnt?..
You are shooting tangents.. I just want to know how you can tell about the engagement just by that sentence?




DARKY said:


> Use of AWACS means J-10s had all the time in the world to flank the Su 30MK2 without being noticed.......upto such an extent that they won't be able to disengage the Su 30MK2 from a solid lock.......even high quality data feed of the position of flankers would've been available via powerful AESA radars being used onboard the AWACS.......plus high Intensity ECM to literally jam the electronics on Su 30MK2.......yet they fail to lock 11 times and finally get a good lock on 12th attempt as mentioned by some Chinese boys and ''Papu'' who ever he is.......just wondering the case when the opponent would have AWACS killer AAMs and proper electronic onboard with AWACS support......what would J-10 jockeys would do......I guess Its not hard to understand that with even pea sized brain.



How do you know about the Lock ten times??
How can you tell the engagement.... that a no brainier.. a pea brain could wouldn't have made your statement in the first place.


Russians don't sell high quality equipment to 3rd world countries and Its easy to understand why......
......The Su 30Mk2 are new to Vietnamese Airforce and I don't think that they even manage 50-80 hours/annum on them thanks to their economic conditions.......where as a flanker jockey without 1000+ hours on the bird with atleast 150-200 hours/ammun is called a newbie......they aren't F-16......that even lesser training would do.
Source??go through all the posts in this thread and ''Papu'' who ever that guy is....
And again we have Copp for the 3rd time............why don't you read his works on J-10.....and Chinese radar and SAM systems.......or wait I'll personally mail him to write an article on JF-17......[/QUOTE]

Pupu's posts... or rather their translation as being presented by Chinese members, still gives less indication of flying hours.. that is just Chinese guys adding onto his posts..
On pupu's posts about the incident.. I see NO indication of Vietnamese flying hours.. etc

And yeah please mail Copp about the JF-17.. he'll probably devise a scenario in which they blow F-35's out of the sky with no loss.

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## DARKY

S10 said:


> Locked 12 times? I don't see that number anywhere in the original text. Did your Indian mind invent that?



I don't understand why my Indian mind reads the title of the thread as *''Vietnam SU-30 is J-10 lock 10 times''*.......I guess I need to learn some Chinese english.....



> Well most Indians are ignorant enough not to know that PLAAF does not operate Su-30s. All Su-30's belong to PLAN, and depending on wikipedia shows that ignorance. The Su-30 used by naval aviation has one role and one role only, maritime strike. They're quite clumbersome in air combat as their frames were reinforced to provide for extra payload.



Here again a Chinese source Chinese Military Aircraft - SinoDefence.com
and I can provide scores of such sources.



> Are you implying Vietnamese can achieve target lock through RWR? That's a first.



My answers was on your question about detection part......but somehow the Chinese mind got better of you.



> Was Iraqi or Serbian airforce challenges for NATO? Why did NATO waste all that AWACS and EW aircraft on them? But hey, enjoy that Indian mind of yours.



Ask the Commanders and USAF pilots......they don't live in fantasy world even an unarmed Mig 21 is a challenge for them........do you know any thing about professionalism......I can understand what they teach out there.

I WASTED MY TIME ON SUCH A LAME THREAD WITH LOADS OF LAME ARGUMENTS BEING PRESENTED TO PROVE SOME BS FROM SOME FANBOY'S MIND.....


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## DARKY

Santro said:


> Perharps it is better.. perhaps it isnt?..
> You are shooting tangents.. I just want to know how you can tell about the engagement just by that sentence?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know about the Lock ten times??
> How can you tell the engagement.... that a no brainier.. a pea brain could wouldn't have made your statement in the first place.
> 
> 
> Russians don't sell high quality equipment to 3rd world countries and Its easy to understand why......
> ......The Su 30Mk2 are new to Vietnamese Airforce and I don't think that they even manage 50-80 hours/annum on them thanks to their economic conditions.......where as a flanker jockey without 1000+ hours on the bird with atleast 150-200 hours/ammun is called a newbie......they aren't F-16......that even lesser training would do.
> Source??go through all the posts in this thread and ''Papu'' who ever that guy is....
> And again we have Copp for the 3rd time............why don't you read his works on J-10.....and Chinese radar and SAM systems.......or wait I'll personally mail him to write an article on JF-17......


 


> Pupu's posts... or rather their translation as being presented by Chinese members, still gives less indication of flying hours.. that is just Chinese guys adding onto his posts..
> On pupu's posts about the incident.. I see NO indication of Vietnamese flying hours.. etc
> 
> And yeah please mail Copp about the JF-17.. he'll probably devise a scenario in which they blow F-35's out of the sky with no loss.


 
I guess NOTHING is left to argue on this post..........and it would be a waste of time.......assuming what was the scenario etc with a false or in complete report presented in fanboy style......

And yeah that JF-17 report would really create a havoc here on PDF I guess you won't want spending whole day banning trolls.........(take it as a joke)


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## S10

DARKY said:


> I don't understand why my Indian mind reads the title of the thread as *''Vietnam SU-30 is J-10 lock 10 times''*.......I guess I need to learn some Chinese english.....


A bad translation = the original statement was bad? Can you get any lamer?



> Here again a Chinese source Chinese Military Aircraft - SinoDefence.com
> and I can provide scores of such sources.


Sinodefence lists air weapon systems, thus Su-30 is included into air force section. However, naval aviation and air force are two different branches in China, and the air force (PLAAF) does not operate Su-30. Do you consider USN and USAF to be the same too since USN has F-18s? Is that really hard for Indians to understand?



> My answers was on your question about detection part......but somehow the Chinese mind got better of you.


Considering the 14th institute developed our AWACS with LPI in mind, I doubt that would be too much of a concern. Even if they manage to detect they're being locked, how do they plan to lock down targets being jammed?



> Ask the Commanders and USAF pilots......they don't live in fantasy world even an unarmed Mig 21 is a challenge for them........do you know any thing about professionalism......I can understand what they teach out there.
> 
> I WASTED MY TIME ON SUCH A LAME THREAD WITH LOADS OF LAME ARGUMENTS BEING PRESENTED TO PROVE SOME BS FROM SOME FANBOY'S MIND.....


Iraqis and Serbians put up next to no resistance in the overall scheme of things. Yet, NATO used all the support they had. You utilize whatever assets you have available to widen the advantage gap between you and your enemies. No wonder you lost in 1962 being this ignorant.

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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> I don't understand why my Indian mind reads the title of the thread as *''Vietnam SU-30 is J-10 lock 10 times''*.......I guess I need to learn some Chinese english.....



Or perhaps basic English comprehension..
Next time a title comes up with "Su-30MKI fails".. where the posts talk of the tyre failure rates, would you be as passionate about the thread title?



DARKY said:


> Ask the Commanders and USAF pilots......they don't live in fantasy world even an unarmed Mig 21 is a challenge for them........do you know any thing about professionalism......I can understand what they teach out there.
> 
> I WASTED MY TIME ON SUCH A LAME THREAD WITH LOADS OF LAME ARGUMENTS BEING PRESENTED TO PROVE SOME BS FROM SOME FANBOY'S MIND.....


 
I think you just leave Mil aviation alone.. after all, us poor fanboys cant come close to your 45 yrs experience in the field as an electronics engineering student/ Air force war college grad/ aerospace engineer/ radar and communications expert..
The only thing you lack is humility.. maybe you can find some online sources for that.

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## DARKY

S10 said:


> A bad translation = the original statement was bad? Can you get any lamer?



Wow you made it.......Now why don't you explain the same thing to others of your type.....that they are jumping on BS.



> Sinodefence lists air weapon systems, thus Su-30 is included into air force section. However, naval aviation and air force are two different branches in China, and the air force (PLAAF) does not operate Su-30. Do you consider USN and USAF to be the same too since USN has F-18s? Is that really hard for Indians to understand?



Its written AF....over there even then I take your argument that it is being used by PLAN air wing.....but the jockeys are supposed to be from AF......even then its lot better than J-11s they field as PLAN's decision to buy them in huge numbers clearly points out......and don't bring USN here......they are even stronger than your AF.



> Considering the 14th institute developed our AWACS with LPI in mind, I doubt that would be too much of a concern. Even if they manage to detect they're being locked, how do they plan to lock down targets being jammed?



There are Radars thant can't be jammed easily and there are AAMs that can home on jamming but the question is can Vietnamese afford them economically and technically.



> *Iraqis and Serbians put up next to no resistance* in the overall scheme of things. Yet, NATO used all the support they had. You utilize whatever assets you have available to widen the advantage gap between you and your enemies. *No wonder you lost in 1962 being this ignorant*.


 
I would advice you to read about GW-I......and get a knowledge on how EW planes of USAF & USN were denied operation in early stages and Yank jocks had a hard time bringing the offenders down.

And here again as usual you resort to trolling......


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## Zabaniyah

DARKY said:


> And here again as usual you resort to trolling......



Me thinks you are the one who's trolling

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## DARKY

Santro said:


> Or perhaps basic English comprehension..
> Next time a title comes up with "Su-30MKI fails".. where the posts talk of the tyre failure rates, would you be as passionate about the thread title?



..................... .......I guess mods are smart enough to not let me get into such a situation




> I think you just leave Mil aviation alone.. after all, us poor fanboys cant come close to your 45 yrs experience in the field as an electronics engineering student/ Air force war college grad/ aerospace engineer/ radar and communications expert..
> The only thing you lack is humility.. maybe you can find some online sources for that.


 
Now where does copp comes here........I just said that ''No enemy is weak'' for a professional pilot and I guess PLAAF pilots are taught the same.


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## DARKY

Zabanya said:


> Me thinks you are the one who's trolling


 
Thanks for opening my eyes


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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> Wow you made it.......Now why don't you explain the same thing to others of your type.....that they are jumping on BS.
> 
> 
> 
> Its written AF....over there even then I take your argument that it is being used by PLAN air wing.....but the jockeys are supposed to be from AF......even then its lot better than J-11s they field as PLAN's decision to buy them in huge numbers clearly points out......and don't bring USN here......they are even stronger than your AF.
> 
> 
> 
> There are Radars thant can't be jammed easily and there are AAMs that can home on jamming but the question is can Vietnamese afford them economically and technically.
> 
> 
> 
> I would advice you to read about GW-I......and get a knowledge on how EW planes of USAF & USN were denied operation in early stages and Yank jocks had a hard time bringing the offenders down.
> 
> And here again as usual you resort to trolling......


 
You need to read about GW-I.. 
Denied operation..??
The early offenders in GW-I found themselves being blown to bits by AMRAAM's and even the old AIM-7.
An F-18 being the only victim of the IqAF in A2A.
The other losses being to AAA and IR sams(with the exception of the F-14 lost to an Sa-2 and a tornado to a french roland among two others whilst not escorted by EW aircraft) .. due to the low level profiles being flown...

Heck EW planes like the F-111 were amongst the first into the fight.. allowing aircraft like the F-15E to operate with impunity
Coalition EW was so effective.. that the Iraqi's resorted to motorcycle riders for dispatches.

now if you are refereeing to early warning and not electronic warfare.. suggest you read tom clancy's fighter wing.. on his personal interviews with those that led and fought GW-I, on how effective E-3's and JSTARS was.

Where do you get your light reading ??

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## S10

DARKY said:


> Wow you made it.......Now why don't you explain the same thing to others of your type.....that they are jumping on BS.


Others already know quite well, except you and few others.



> Its written AF....over there even then I take your argument that it is being used by PLAN air wing.....but the jockeys are supposed to be from AF......even then its lot better than J-11s they field as PLAN's decision to buy them in huge numbers clearly points out......and don't bring USN here......they are even stronger than your AF.


Again, you have to show how ignorant you are. J-11s are designed from the beginning for air superiority, therefore the air force operates them. China wanted to enhance its maritime strike capability in the mid 1990's and ordered the Su-30s from Russia. They had a heavier airframe for greater payload, but their air to air capability suffered. They are certainly NOT better than J-11, especially the latest models. Oh and did I mention J-10 massacred Su-30s in recent air exercises? The exchange rate was 5:1.



> There are Radars thant can't be jammed easily and there are AAMs that can home on jamming but the question is can Vietnamese afford them economically and technically.


Sure there are things they can improve to even their odds. China probably wouldn't be able to do the same thing had those been American jets. However against Vietnam, we're more than sufficient.



> I would advice you to read about GW-I......and get a knowledge on how EW planes of USAF & USN were denied operation in early stages and Yank jocks had a hard time bringing the offenders down.
> 
> And here again as usual you resort to trolling......


How many planes did Iraqi and Serbians bring down? Did they have any significant obstacles to NATO operations? They were almost as good as nothing.

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## DARKY

Santro said:


> You need to read about GW-I..
> Denied operation..??
> The early offenders in GW-I found themselves being blown to bits by AMRAAM's and even the old AIM-7.
> An F-18 being the only victim of the IqAF in A2A.
> The other losses being to AAA and IR sams(with the exception of the F-14 lost to an Sa-2 and a tornado to a french roland among two others whilst not escorted by EW aircraft) .. due to the low level profiles being flown...
> 
> Heck EW planes like the F-111 were amongst the first into the fight.. allowing aircraft like the F-15E to operate with impunity
> Coalition EW was so effective.. that the Iraqi's resorted to motorcycle riders for dispatches.
> 
> now if you are refereeing to early warning and not electronic warfare.. suggest you read tom clancy's fighter wing.. on his personal interviews with those that led and fought GW-I, on how effective E-3's and JSTARS was.
> 
> Where do you get your light reading ??


 
There were waves of Iraqi Mig 25 and Mig 23 interceptions that didn't allow USN & USAF.......to use bulky AEW & C planes at closer fronts even F-111 were intercepted and F-15s had to come at rescue.....and about being shot by Aim 7.......there were even incidents of Iraqi planes being maneuvered down to earth by unarmed Yank birds.......which had more to do with poor training and lack of weaponry on part of Iraqi pilots.

Even then I don't see them taking their opponents lightly.


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## Zabaniyah

> The restrictions that Saddam placed on the IQAF were most clearly demonstrated when Iraqi pilots did fly, particularly in air-to-air combat. The IQAF's tactics generally seemed confused, and its pilots displayed poor situational awareness by frequently allowing coalition fighters to close to within a few miles before taking defensive action.48 Iraqi MiG-29 pilots in particular "appeared not to know how to fly,"49 as demonstrated by an early engagement in which a MiG-29 pilot shot down his wingman and then flew his own aircraft into the ground some 30 seconds later. Iraqi MiG-29 pilots reportedly flew with the air-intercept radar button taped down to lock onto the first aircraft detected and continually depressed the trigger to fire their weapons as soon as they acquired a target.50 Apparently, all Iraqi fighter pilots practiced these techniques, for when they managed to lock onto coalition aircraft, they launched their missiles at extreme ranges and missed every time.


Source: Saddam Hussein And Iraqi Air Power


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## DARKY

S10 said:


> Others already know quite well, except you and few others.
> 
> 
> Again, you have to show how ignorant you are. J-11s are designed from the beginning for air superiority, therefore the air force operates them. China wanted to enhance its maritime strike capability in the mid 1990's and ordered the Su-30s from Russia. They had a heavier airframe for greater payload, but their air to air capability suffered. They are certainly NOT better than J-11, especially the latest models. Oh and did I mention J-10 massacred Su-30s in recent air exercises? The exchange rate was 5:1.
> 
> 
> Sure there are things they can improve to even their odds. China probably wouldn't be able to do the same thing had those been American jets. However against Vietnam, we're more than sufficient.
> 
> 
> How many planes did Iraqi and Serbians bring down? Did they have any significant obstacles to NATO operations? They were almost as good as nothing.


 
Su 30MKK's air frame was modified for heavy load carrying.......why didn't they do the same with J-11 which had even better electronics according to you and It would have been a lot cheaper.

Don't tell me about your kill ratios.......I know how flankers are flown in china.

Just in case let me remind you such incidents can force them to buy Su 35BM or pour in american F-16s for Vietnamese airforce......and in such case the whole picture might turn drastically.

Again a for a professional even flying a good sortie is a big concern.......they don't go in battlefield with things in mind that they are no match for us.


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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> There were waves of Iraqi Mig 25 and Mig 23 interceptions that didn't allow USN & USAF.......to use bulky AEW & C planes at closer fronts even F-111 were intercepted and F-15s had to come at rescue.....and about being shot by Aim 7.......there were even incidents of Iraqi planes being maneuvered down to earth by unarmed Yank birds.......which had more to do with poor training and lack of weaponry on part of Iraqi pilots.
> 
> Even then I don't see them taking their opponents lightly.


 
Waves??
Apart from the initial "waves".. most of Iraq's Af fled to Iran.. of which many more were shot down by coalition fighters.
When are the HVAA(or Bulky assets) ever placed on the front lines, if anything, AEW, tankers operate at least a 100 to 150 km out from the FLOT..
The early IqAF interceptors went for the strike fighters.. and even with that they were outmatched.
with F-18''s shooting down interceptors and then continuing the strike run.

What exactly are you on about taking their opponents lightly.. is that even part of the discussion??
I believe the whole topic is revolving on the use of EW assets by the Chinese and their effectiveness. 
Which you seem to think matter not since the poor Vietnamese cant do anything about anyway.
Then it shifted to the J-10 which you (now I am starting to agree with the Chinese here about it being natural) think is crap vs the Su-30.
And now we are on the gulf war whose facts you have done "balatkar" with.. 

What exactly is the argument which you wish to win??

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## peaceful

DARKY said:


> Su 30MKK's air frame was modified for heavy load carrying.......why didn't they do the same with J-11 which had even better electronics according to you and It would have been a lot cheaper.


 
please stop trolling. your quoted text answers your question very well : air to air capability suffered because of such "modified for heavy load carrying".

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## rcrmj

Rechoice said:


> I agree with you. This post on PDF is for joke.


 
just because they showed the true capability and $hity skills of the vietcon's glorious army``its just pathetic`

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## DARKY

Santro said:


> Waves??
> Apart from the initial "waves".. most of Iraq's Af fled to Iran.. of which many more were shot down by coalition fighters.
> When are the HVAA(or Bulky assets) ever placed on the front lines, if anything, AEW, tankers operate at least a 100 to 150 km out from the FLOT..
> The early IqAF interceptors went for the strike fighters.. and even with that they were outmatched.
> with F-18''s shooting down interceptors and then continuing the strike run.
> 
> *What exactly are you on about taking their opponents lightly.. is that even part of the discussion??*
> I believe the whole topic is revolving on the use of EW assets by the Chinese and their effectiveness.
> Which you seem to think matter not since the poor Vietnamese cant do anything about anyway.
> Then it shifted to the J-10 which you (now I am starting to agree with the Chinese here about it being natural) think is crap vs the Su-30.
> And now we are on the gulf war whose facts you have done "balatkar" with..
> 
> What exactly is the argument which you wish to win??


 
My argument were towards the claims made by a Chinese boy about his airforce.......but then you jumped in with Gulf war.......it was he who mentioned about Iraqi and Serb pilots.

The whole topic is just revolving around this false/incomplete news presented in a fanboyish manner.......and on top of that barging about 10/dozen locks being made.......and even claiming that the Vietnamese pilots told Chinese on radio links that they lost their confidence.

I never wanted to bring a Vs debate......vs debates are ann insult to the capabilities of a sophisticated fighter.

And about operating in foward lines I meant using their full coverage area on Iraqi air space and battelzone which they were denied off in early stages of the war.....and American jets had to even indulge in dogfights which might have shown different results if Iraqis had trained their pilots.


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## Nowaday

vietcon, u talked about it as Vietnamese Communists. and u should know bout Tau Cong, it is known as Chinese communists


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## rcrmj

Santro said:


> Waves??
> Apart from the initial "waves".. most of Iraq's Af fled to Iran.. of which many more were shot down by coalition fighters.
> When are the HVAA(or Bulky assets) ever placed on the front lines, if anything, AEW, tankers operate at least a 100 to 150 km out from the FLOT..
> The early IqAF interceptors went for the strike fighters.. and even with that they were outmatched.
> with F-18''s shooting down interceptors and then continuing the strike run.
> 
> What exactly are you on about taking their opponents lightly.. is that even part of the discussion??
> I believe the whole topic is revolving on the use of EW assets by the Chinese and their effectiveness.
> Which you seem to think matter not since the poor Vietnamese cant do anything about anyway.
> Then it shifted to the J-10 which you (now I am starting to agree with the Chinese here about it being natural) think is crap vs the Su-30.
> And now we are on the gulf war whose facts you have done "balatkar" with..
> 
> What exactly is the argument which you wish to win??


 
because his paranoia, some ego thurst india will never accept chinese fighters are much better than their ever dreamed of``they will jump into bashing any opportunity they have to ease their feeling of inferior compleity.

he started trolling by assuming j-10 couldnt have a 'solid' lock (he invented it) on Su-30s, and come to the conclusion chinese AWACs and J-10s are crap`lol```even the chinese section didnt give that much info about the incicdent, but some how he can read the 'un-written' parts``

and he had to change the direction of trolling when got debunked again and again`

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## DARKY

rcrmj said:


> because his paranoia, some ego thurst *india will never accept chinese fighters are much better than their ever dreamed of``they will jump into bashing any opportunity they have to ease their feeling of inferior compleity.*
> 
> he started trolling by assuming j-10 couldnt have a 'solid' lock (he invented it) on Su-30s, and come to the conclusion chinese AWACs and J-10s are crap`lol```even the chinese section didnt give that much info about the incicdent, but some how he can read the 'un-written' parts``
> 
> and he had to change the direction of trolling when got debunked again and again`


 
I can understand your situation........apologies that I spoiled your troll parade here.

And yeah the info given by your chinese section can be seen...


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## Zabaniyah

DARKY said:


> I never wanted to bring a Vs debate......vs debates are ann insult to the capabilities of a sophisticated fighter.



You are...

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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> My argument were towards the claims made by a Chinese boy about his airforce.......but then you jumped in with Gulf war.......it was he who mentioned about Iraqi and Serb pilots.
> 
> The whole topic is just revolving around this false/incomplete news presented in a fanboyish manner.......and on top of that barging about 10/dozen locks being made.......and even claiming that the Vietnamese pilots told Chinese on radio links that they lost their confidence.
> 
> I never wanted to bring a Vs debate......vs debates are ann insult to the capabilities of a sophisticated fighter.
> 
> And about operating in foward lines I meant using their full coverage area on Iraqi air space and battelzone which they were denied off in early stages of the war.....and American jets had to even indulge in dogfights which might have shown different results if Iraqis had trained their pilots.


 
The claims are made by pupu.. whilst an online forum poster..
It was his news on the J-20 two years before we got the picture, it was his news on the J-15 before we saw the shots.
So I would add a level of veracity to his claims.
I need a link to the post saying viet pilots said on the radio to their chinese counterparts in pristine English/Cantonese/mandarin that they lost their confidence.
The only mention is of the way the viet pilots behaved in the air, showing very little aggression after having those encounters.
There were iraqi pilots trained in dogfights.. suggest you read "every man a tiger"..
some did engage US pilots in furballs.. for the most part however, superior weaponry and training prevailed for the coalition.

AEW aircraft follow a racetrack pattern a 100km or so away from the FLOT.. 
ONLY a complete fool would commit his HVAA's into the front.. a time AEW assets moved into Iqaf territory was when the IqAF was fleeing to Iran... awacs followed way behind F-15's and other assets chasing them down.
Red flag exercises have seen HVAA's(tankers) operating 60km behind the main force.. and using zoom climb tactics red force aircraft were able to reach these in early exercises.. 90's onwards.. red force aircraft don't even get close.

You keep deriding Chinese equipment and tactics without an ounce of logic or proof and refuse to accept the contrary.. 
how is that not being extremely biased.. 
You cant accept their argument, you have NOthing to offer in return except poo poohing everything Chinese.. then you on with troll fatwa's??

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## rcrmj

DARKY said:


> I can understand your situation........apologies that I spoiled your troll parade here.
> 
> And yeah the info given by your chinese section can be seen...


 
lol``all my posts are here for everyone to judge, your believe is insignificent``dont u know atm, there are non chinese memebers here arguing with you because they think you are a troller``

so it is very clear who trolls here``and about the chinese section, there has nothing to support your funny conclusion`period

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## DARKY

Santro said:


> The claims are made by pupu.. whilst an online forum poster..
> It was his news on the J-20 two years before we got the picture, it was his news on the J-15 before we saw the shots.
> So I would add a level of veracity to his claims.
> I need a link to the post saying viet pilots said on the radio to their chinese counterparts in pristine English/Cantonese/mandarin that they lost their confidence.
> The only mention is of the way the viet pilots behaved in the air, showing very little aggression after having those encounters.
> There were iraqi pilots trained in dogfights.. suggest you read "every man a tiger"..
> some did engage US pilots in furballs.. for the most part however, superior weaponry and training prevailed for the coalition.
> 
> AEW aircraft follow a racetrack pattern a 100km or so away from the FLOT..
> ONLY a complete fool would commit his HVAA's into the front.. a time AEW assets moved into Iqaf territory was when the IqAF was fleeing to Iran... awacs followed way behind F-15's and other assets chasing them down.
> Red flag exercises have seen HVAA's(tankers) operating 60km behind the main force.. and using zoom climb tactics red force aircraft were able to reach these in early exercises.. 90's onwards.. red force aircraft don't even get close.
> 
> You keep deriding Chinese equipment and tactics without an ounce of logic or proof and refuse to accept the contrary..
> how is that not being extremely biased..
> You cant accept their argument, you have NOthing to offer in return except poo poohing everything Chinese.. then you on with troll fatwa's??


 
Here you are about communications part......... and what Papu is being said to be claiming
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/118638-vietnam-su-30-j-10-lock-10-times-11.html#post1920055

Now about aggressiveness If you are locked a dozen times and don't have any idea of your opponent the best thing a pilot can do is turn back and land on base......only a fool would try to be aggressive out there.

Yes Iraqi pilots were trained but poorly compared to yanks.

Modern AWACS have the luxury to operate beyond 200km from FLOT......

I raised a question about the mindless debate based on wrongly presented facts........I know how capable Chinese and Vietnamese jets are.........although it can be said that why twisting and truing......but sometimes direct way is not understood......If I had said that ''Vietnam SU-30 is J-10 lock 10 times'' is wrong......then the results would've been different......hence I raised a question on the capabilities of their machinery which lost lock 9 times to gain it 10 times.......and here we have people claiming that the report is wrongly presented.......look from broader prospective you'll understand what I did.


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## DARKY

rcrmj said:


> lol``all my posts are here for everyone to judge, your believe is insignificent``dont u know atm, there are non chinese memebers here arguing with you because they think you are a troller``
> 
> so it is very clear who trolls here``and about the chinese section, there has nothing to support your funny conclusion`period


 
You won't understand what went here.......and that's not your fault.


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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> Here you are about communications part......... and what Papu is being said to be claiming
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/118638-vietnam-su-30-j-10-lock-10-times-11.html#post1920055
> 
> Now about aggressiveness If you are locked a dozen times and don't have any idea of your opponent the best thing a pilot can do is turn back and land on base......only a fool would try to be aggressive out there.
> 
> Yes Iraqi pilots were trained but poorly compared to yanks.
> 
> Modern AWACS have the luxury to operate beyond 200km from FLOT......
> 
> I raised a question about the mindless debate based on wrongly presented facts........I know how capable Chinese and Vietnamese jets are.........although it can be said that why twisting and truing......but sometimes direct way is not understood......If I had said that ''Vietnam SU-30 is J-10 lock 10 times'' is wrong......then the results would've been different......hence I raised a question on the capabilities of their machinery which lost lock 9 times to gain it 10 times.......and here we have people claiming that the report is wrongly presented.......look from broader prospective you'll understand what I did.



How did you figure that out from that post??
I mean.. apart from the fact that it is a poor translation.. the only thing it mentions is ten lock on's..
IT DOES NOT SAY LOCK WAS LOST 9 OUT OF TEN TIMES
IT DOES NOT SAY LOCK HAD TO BE DONE TEN TIMES
IT DOES NOT SAY LOCK WAS BY TEN DIFFERENT FIGHTERS.

So how did you reach your conclusion?


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## DARKY

Santro said:


> How did you figure that out from that post??
> I mean.. apart from the fact that it is a poor translation.. the only thing it mentions is ten lock on's..
> IT DOES NOT SAY LOCK WAS LOST 9 OUT OF TEN TIMES



obviously if 10 were gained on a single fighter.



> IT DOES NOT SAY LOCK HAD TO BE DONE TEN TIMES



The title of the post and claims made here does.



> IT DOES NOT SAY LOCK WAS BY TEN DIFFERENT FIGHTERS.



Now we don't have 10 fighter flying for a patrol on roughly 1500km long border 
and there's a rule followed between wing men and they don't engage/lock on a single fighter at the same time. 



> So how did you reach your conclusion?


 
I reached on the conclusion after reading scores of posts made from the Chinese side.


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## kingdurgaking

@Darky ... Logically to see with SU MK2 it is impossible for Vietnams to defend themselves .. Chinese on the other hand have AWACS ... If J-10 took lock 10 times is no big deal because they knew the radar frequency and tactics.. in addition to it MK2 is not air superiority but a strike aircraft while J-10 is a multi role.. which is why there is no big deal in this result.. What vietnam needs to do is get cooperation from India.. upgrade there MK-2 with good avionics with EW... not sure how the upgrade will happen as there MK2 and our MKI are from different entities... if they are able to install all the avionics and upgrade to MKI standard it will be a force to reckon with... In addition we have to provide them with LCA and AEWACS incase DRDO is able to deliever it by 2013 end.. this will help them ....

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## DARKY

@Santro; If you remember we had a similar incident of a Mig 29 locking on a F-16.......and what falcon pilot did was fly back quietly to base and not trying any thing stupid.......we never had 10--12 locks gained or broken.


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## Rechoice

rcrmj said:


> just because they showed the true capability and $hity skills of the vietcon's glorious army``its just pathetic`



You don't know about control system of VAF, maneuver tactic and disciplined, how can pilot to do when they on-air etc... I don't like to disclose something here.
Mr. Pupu has good joke.


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## DARKY

kingdurgaking said:


> @Darky ... Logically to see with SU MK2 it is impossible for Vietnams to defend themselves .. Chinese on the other hand have AWACS ... If J-10 took lock 10 times is no big deal because they knew the radar frequency and tactics.. in addition to it MK2 is not air superiority but a strike aircraft while J-10 is a multi role.. which is why there is no big deal in this result.. What vietnam needs to do is get cooperation from India.. upgrade there MK-2 with good avionics with EW... not sure how the upgrade will happen as there MK2 and our MKI are from different entities... if they are able to install all the avionics and upgrade to MKI standard it will be a force to reckon with... In addition we have to provide them with LCA and AEWACS incase DRDO is able to deliever it by 2013 end.. this will help them ....


 
That's another thing buddy....the question is what is this thread trying to prove......and what purpose it had.


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## peaceful

Rechoice said:


> You don't know about control system of VAF, maneuver tactic and disciplined, how can pilot to do when they on-air etc... I don't like to disclose something here.
> Mr. Pupu has good joke.


 
VAF? what a joke. Dude, your entire "air force" has less than 100 3rd generation fighters, and you call it air force? 

trust me one thing dude: we have more fighters than your missiles -- I mean missiles imported from russia.

---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------




DARKY said:


> That's another thing buddy....the question is what is this thread trying to prove......and what purpose it had.


 
it brings a undeniable truth: 

india & vietnam are just 3rd class nations without decent defence industry.


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## The_Sidewinder

peaceful said:


> VAF? what a joke. Dude, your entire "air force" has less than 100 3rd generation fighters, and you call it air force?
> 
> trust me one thing dude: we have more fighters than your missiles -- I mean missiles imported from russia.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> it brings a undeniable truth:
> 
> india & vietnam are just 3rd class nations without decent defence industry.


 
and your remarks also proves that ur mantellity is that of a 4th grad swiper.


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## DARKY

peaceful said:


> VAF? what a joke. Dude, your entire "air force" has less than 100 3rd generation fighters, and you call it air force?
> 
> trust me one thing dude: we have more fighters than your missiles -- I mean missiles imported from russia.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> it brings a undeniable truth:
> 
> *india & vietnam are just 3rd class nations without decent defence industry*.


 
Nobody said you to open your eyes from an illusive dream feel free to believe/do what makes you feel good.......


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## SQ8

DARKY said:


> @Santro; If you remember we had a similar incident of a Mig 29 locking on a F-16.......and what falcon pilot did was fly back quietly to base and not trying any thing stupid.......we never had 10--12 locks gained or broken.


 
Quite simply because the viper pilot was smart enough to know it was outgunned.
But if on multiple occasions the viper pilot kept running away and coming back.. would that not amount to ten lock ups?

its still all speculation.. but it does not give any negative clue on the PLAAF's tactics and abilities.


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## cn_habs

DARKY is by far the most naive and wannabe expert here who posts based on his "ASSUMPTIONS". Some Indians are more than hilarioius.


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## peaceful

cn_habs said:


> DARKY is by far the most naive and wannabe expert here who posts based on his "ASSUMPTIONS". Some Indians are more than hilarioius.


 
they lost the competition with China for a reason. 

pretty simple to me.


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## rcrmj

Viva_Viet said:


> $hity skills ??pathetic China, your Pilots skill is too bad, that why they need help from AWACs , and what happend if we shoot down this Big lady ??China pilot's skill will be no Match to us


 
lol simpliton, every single air mission carried out by U.S.A air force also supported by AWACs, its called modern information and electronic centric warfare which is unknown to vietcon, and their propaganda is not mature enough to cover that area as well``

guess its difficul for a 8-year-old kid to get throuhg those 'complicated' things`


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## peaceful

rcrmj said:


> lol simpliton, every single air mission carried out by U.S.A air force also supported by AWACs, its called modern information and electronic centric warfare which is unknown to vietcon, and their propaganda is not mature enough to cover that area as well``
> 
> guess its difficul for a 8-year-old kid to get throuhg those 'complicated' things`



by applying that vietnamese guys theory, the vietnamese army should arm with knifves and stickers only.

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## Viva_Viet

rcrmj said:


> lol simpliton, every single air mission carried out by U.S.A air force also supported by AWACs, its called modern information and electronic centric warfare which is unknown to vietcon, and their propaganda is not mature enough to cover that area as well``
> 
> guess its difficul for a 8-year-old kid to get throuhg those 'complicated' things`


So, it's about Air tech superior not about Pilot's Skill superior.\\

@ moderator: VNAF can shoot down B-52, so, no supprise that we will shoot down AEWACS easily, pls don't give an infraction T__T.


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## rcrmj

Viva_Viet said:


> So, it's about Air tech superior not about Pilot's Skill superior.\\
> 
> @ moderator: VNAF can shoot down B-52, so, no supprise that we will shoot down AEWACS easily, pls don't give an infraction T__T.


 
lol, where is the mighty prove of viet's 'super skill' ?? again 40 years ago shot down some B-52s?

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## Way to go

Viva_Viet said:


> @ moderator: pls don't give an infraction T__T.


 
lol..wahahaha

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## Viva_Viet

rcrmj said:


> lol, where is the mighty prove of viet's 'super skill' ?? again 40 years ago shot down some B-52s?


 
Lieutenant General Ph&#7841;m Tuân is retired now, but he already trained lots of new pilots his special skil, and they now can do many Impossible mission like Pham Tuân did


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## Rechoice

peaceful said:


> VAF? what a joke. Dude, your entire "air force" has less than 100 3rd generation fighters, and you call it air force?
> 
> trust me one thing dude: we have more fighters than your missiles -- I mean missiles imported from russia.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> it brings a undeniable truth:
> 
> india & vietnam are just 3rd class nations without decent defence industry.


 
look at Taiwanese Gov, how to do to protect Taiwan from threat of mainland China.


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## Zabaniyah

peaceful said:


> VAF? what a joke. Dude, your entire "air force" has less than 100 3rd generation fighters, and you call it air force?
> 
> trust me one thing dude: we have more fighters than your missiles -- I mean missiles imported from russia.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> it brings a undeniable truth:
> 
> india & vietnam are just 3rd class nations without decent defence industry.


 
Well, the Vietnam People's Air Force are pretty experienced


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## Viva_Viet

Zabanya said:


> Well, the Vietnam People's Air Force are pretty experienced




We only use Air force for ambush and impossible mission, it's only use in the real combat. for some funny action with PLAAF is just a patrol only .But CHinese don't understand that


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## rcrmj

Viva_Viet said:


> Lieutenant General Ph&#7841;m Tuân is retired now, but he already trained lots of new pilots his special skil, and they now can do many Impossible mission like Pham Tuân did


 
i knew it some guy 40 years ago shot down something`` can u do any better?

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Rechoice said:


> Never, Chinese kid.


 
I remember It had been part of China for 1000 years. I am nod going to say that history will not happen again.


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## faithfulguy

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> I remember It had been part of China for 1000 years. I am nod going to say that history will not happen again.


 
I can say that it will not happen again. No other major countries will allow China to invade and occupy Vietnam. But it won't even get to that point because China would not invade Vietnam. Any real conflict would only occur in the South China Sea. China has the advantage vs Vietnam because of the navy.

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

faithfulguy said:


> I can say that it will not happen again. No other major countries will allow China to invade and occupy Vietnam. But it won't even get to that point because China would not invade Vietnam. Any real conflict would only occur in the South China Sea. China has the advantage vs Vietnam because of the navy.


 
Who knows. Human being's history is not longer than 8000 years. Maybe 10000 years later, VN wants to be part China at that time just like what they did before. Nothing is impossible.


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## Viva_Viet

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Who knows. Human being's history is not longer than 8000 years. Maybe 10000 years later, VN wants to be part China at that time just like what they did before. Nothing is impossible.


VN territory belong to VNese, if our leader wanna be apart of CHina, they must have the agreement of All VNese, do you understand what Democracy means ?? 

And the answer from VNese always : No, coz we have 2 specials friends stand shoulder by shoulder with us agagnst any enemy now, and we will have More specials friends if some one plan to invade us.So, we're quite Big and powerfull now, we need No protection , bro

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## Sonyuke_Songpaisan

Viva_Viet said:


> VN territory belong to VNese, if our leader wanna be apart of CHina, they must have the agreement of All VNese, do you understand what Democracy means ??
> 
> And the answer from VNese always : No, coz we have 2 specials friends stand shoulder by shoulder with us agagnst any enemy now, and we will have More specials friends if some one plan to invade us.So, we're quite Big and powerfull now, we need No protection , bro


 
Haha, VNese is teaching Chinese what democracy is. Funny thing.

You need no protection, you need sucks

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## Viva_Viet

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Haha, VNese is teaching Chinese what democracy is. Funny thing.
> 
> You need no protection, you need sucks


Oh, we soon have our own Democracy version, poor Chinese still never dare to dream about it if they don't wanna have one more Tienanmen square


> The Vietnamese government feels compelled to call their system democratic and to hold elections to try to tell the rest of the world that their version of democracy is just different from others,&#8221; Raymond Burghardt, a former U.S. ambassador to Vietnam and now director of seminars at the East-West Center in Honolulu,


Vietnam Completes Voting in Legislative Election - Bloomberg

Us. will accept our Democracy soon.


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## INDIAISM

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Dogs always want the recognition from its masters. So USA will recognize you as a loyal watch dog.


Sir ths statement of urs give us proof of ur mentality....or i can say ur frustation...u should realise tht u r refering to a nation and u should should show respect wen u r refering a nation no matter wether its ur enemy or ur friend...evn we {Indians and Pakistanis} hve alot of problems between us but still we don't use such kind of language for each other's nation..or to b frank from heart we respect each other for wat we achieved since independence.....


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## below_freezing

Viva_Viet said:


> Oh, we soon have our own Democracy version, poor Chinese still never dare to dream about it if they don't wanna have one more Tienanmen square
> Vietnam Completes Voting in Legislative Election - Bloomberg
> 
> Us. will accept our Democracy soon.


 
Saddam Hussein and Hitler also had elections.


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## The_Sidewinder

Sonyuke_Songpaisan said:


> Dogs always want the recognition from its masters. So USA will recognize you as a loyal watch dog.


 
Post reported.

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## pluto

guys, stop personal attack. focus on the news.
is it true?
i believe Su-30 is a good platform, but its electronics for sure obsolete, not as good as J-10. I'm thinking how powerful J-10B is...

wow, think about j-20's debut over south china sea.


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## houshanghai

pluto said:


> guys, stop personal attack. focus on the news.
> is it true?
> i believe Su-30 is a good platform, but its electronics for sure obsolete, not as good as J-10. I'm thinking how powerful J-10B is...
> 
> wow, think about j-20's debut over south china sea.


 
bcz this is pupu said .so 100% true


btw.russian 99m2 have proved what pupu predict is real again


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## kingdurgaking

pluto said:


> guys, stop personal attack. focus on the news.
> is it true?
> i believe Su-30 is a good platform, but its electronics for sure obsolete, not as good as J-10. I'm thinking how powerful J-10B is...
> 
> wow, think about j-20's debut over south china sea.


 
What makes you think electronics are absolute in SU-30.. if Vietnam doesnt have them doesnt mean SU-30 electronics are bad... secondly vietnam MK-2 are maritime strike aircraft.. they dont have features like a multirole aircraft... so what is the big deal in it?.. and if China used AWACS in engagement it is of no big deal.. because awacs does the major part...

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## SQ8

kingdurgaking said:


> What makes you think electronics are absolute in SU-30.. if Vietnam doesnt have them doesnt mean SU-30 electronics are bad... secondly vietnam MK-2 are maritime strike aircraft.. they dont have features like a multirole aircraft... so what is the big deal in it?.. and if China used AWACS in engagement it is of no big deal.. because awacs does the major part...


 
Actually. . the Mk2 series are more advanced than the Mkk's.
and whilst geared for maritime strike, they possess all the wiring and software for multirole ops..
better comm equipment.. and better radar.


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## areal

i don't think it is true, and i am unwilling to believe it. such kind of news is created just for fun and to satisfy those chinese who are tired of china gov.'s peace-keeping announcement.



pluto said:


> guys, stop personal attack. focus on the news.
> is it true?
> i believe Su-30 is a good platform, but its electronics for sure obsolete, not as good as J-10. I'm thinking how powerful J-10B is...
> 
> wow, think about j-20's debut over south china sea.

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## houshanghai

areal said:


> i don't think it is true, and i am unwilling to believe it. such kind of news is created just for fun and to satisfy those chinese who are tired of china gov.'s peace-keeping announcement.


 

Believe it or not, this&#8217;s a fact too


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## peaceful

kingdurgaking said:


> What makes you think electronics are absolute in SU-30.. if Vietnam doesnt have them doesnt mean SU-30 electronics are bad... secondly vietnam MK-2 are maritime strike aircraft.. they dont have features like a multirole aircraft... so what is the big deal in it?.. and if China used AWACS in engagement it is of no big deal.. because awacs does the major part...


 
dude, maybe your are new here and know nothing about russia weapons. now let me tell you something even 8 years kids in China know:

russia is not good at electronics/software stuff, they never developed any real hardcore stuff in their entire history. 

the one fitted on Su-27sk was shockingly bad, when the PLA first had their hands on Su-27sk imported from Russia, they couldn't even believe russia is still using such 60s technologies. 

Now you want to tell me su-30 is significantly better? 

trust me dude: india considered su-35 as a minor upgrade from su-30, now you want me to believe su-30 has any major upgrade from su-27? 

don't be silly.

both are .


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## ptldM3

peaceful said:


> dude, maybe your are new here and know nothing about russia weapons. now let me tell you something even 8 years kids in China know:
> 
> 
> *russia is not good at electronics/software stuff, they never developed any real hardcore stuff in their entire history. *




Where did the first fighter born PESA come from? Or the first HMC? The first data-link that implemented coordinated attacks was also first introduced in Russia, what about a HUD that displayed radar information? All of this was eventually barrowed or copied by other air forces. And please look into the radar of the JF-17, while you're at look at the PL-12's seeker, funny that Russian avionics and technical assistance keeps finding its was into Chinese weapons even though many hear seem to think Russian avionics are trash.






peaceful said:


> the one fitted on Su-27sk was shockingly bad, when the PLA first had their hands on Su-27sk imported from Russia, they couldn't even believe russia is still using such 60s technologies.





Stop talking nonsense, the Chinese knew exactly what they were getting before they even purchased the aircraft. 





peaceful said:


> *Now you want to tell me su-30 is significantly better*?
> 
> trust me dude: india considered su-35 as a minor upgrade from su-30, *now you want me to believe su-30 has any major upgrade from su-27?*
> 
> don't be silly.
> 
> 
> both are .



No one is going to trust you, the SU-27 and SU-30 series aircraft couldn't be more different, different radars, different OLS, different mission computers, different engines, different everything.




Pluto said:


> guys, stop personal attack. focus on the news.
> is it true?
> i believe Su-30 is a good platform, *but its electronics for sure obsolete*, not as good as J-10. I'm thinking how powerful J-10B is...
> 
> wow, think about j-20's debut over south china sea





You are not qualified to make such a statement. Su-30's and old Migs have achieved radar locks many times, if you recall there was a Mig-29 that achieved a radar lock on a Pakistani F-16; moreover, in mock exercises the Mig-29 has achieved radar locks on every aircraft it has encountered, similarly the SU-30 has done the same. Pupu's statement has a number of inconsistencies and question marks as well as bias and a hidden agenda, his stament about Vietnamese pilots being demoralized just proves he stooped to the level of fanboy--if you like go back and read my earlier post regarding his statements.

Moving on during Cope India Indian aircraft were able to jam and achieve radar locks on F-15's, but this does not mean that the F-15's could not hold their ground. The next time around F-15's and SU-30 met the F-15s were able to achieve a much greater kill ratio.

The Chinese know the radar frequency of the SU-30's radar. Since they know the frequency all they have to do is flood that frequency with enough 'noise'. When this is achieved EM energy from the jammed aircraft has problems locating enemy aircraft because of all the clutter or 'noise' in his operating frequency. There is nothing 'high-tech' or amazing about this especially when ECM aircraft and awacs are used--it is essentially brute force. Remember, and aircraft such as the J-10 has a limitation of how much electronic counter measures (ECM) it can carry--an ECM aircraft does not. If the roles were reversed the Vietnamese could have done the very same thing to the J-10.

Further, often when barrage jamming/or radar locks are achieved an aircraft's radar can usually get an indication of where the enemy aircraft are, thanks to the radar warning receiver, although there may be some limitations such as no range bearing. Further, the SU-30's IRST, if range permits, could get a location of aircraft, best of all it is a passive system. So even if an aircraft is jammed it still can obtain a general location, and that is all you need when you can employ IR missiles.

And as said earlier even lo-tech methods of jamming or disrupting radar locks can be used, this means when pupu stated that the J-10's had a continuous lock he likely exaggerated, a simple chaff can severely clutter radars with different frequencies, something that would be difficult to overcome and maintain a continuous lock, than again it was also said that multiple locks were achieved so it seems like he cant keep his story strait.

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## The_Sidewinder

peaceful said:


> dude, maybe your are new here and know nothing about russia weapons. now let me tell you something even 8 years kids in China know:
> 
> .


 
the same can be said in india. Here even a two year kid know that chineese products are 3rd class. Happy now.

Stop trolling.


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## chengdusudise

houshanghai said:


> lol bcz this monumental failure of air combat with PLAAF. Your vietnam's great general had been appointed to approach our chiefs of staff maxiaotian and *sue for peace* in BEIJING.


 

LOL, first these pathetic vietnamese keep on shouting "china aggression"and "we'll fight to last one for our country"!, now their top general suddenly fly to beijing for "peace talk" and "conventional friendship",what's the reason?
when your best fighter , which is considered as your only hope to counter "aggression", can be shoot down easily, what can you do?

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## Rechoice

http://i.imgur.com/xN4BR.jpg

Dr. Pupu should predicted that: They have been shaked hands 10 times

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## INDIAISM

i think the aircraft tht was locked by j10 can be su 27 also....atlast both su27 and su 30 have same airframe


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## tanlixiang28776

INDIAISM said:


> i think the aircraft tht was locked by j10 can be su 27 also....atlast both su27 and su 30 have same airframe


 
They don't have any SU 27s.


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## Zabaniyah

tanlixiang28776 said:


> They don't have any SU 27s.


 
Apparently, they do:




Source: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0f/Sukhoi_Su-27_operators.png

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## hieutd

Poor bragging Chinese . If it is real, plz provide evidence, data, video...May be several months later, USAF F-22 will be lock by their J10 also.


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## houshanghai

hieutd said:


> Poor bragging Chinese . If it is real, plz provide evidence, data, video...May be several months later, USAF F-22 will be lock by their J10 also.


 
All F22 were suspended because of the Oxygen Generation System now

how to lock by our J10 now


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## gambit

houshanghai said:


> All F22 were suspended because of the Oxygen Generation System now
> 
> how to lock by our J10 now


You revealed your ignorance and inexperience. The oxygen generator is a safety issue that will take high priority in peacetime. Heck...Am willing to bet that if Chinese aircrafts and procedures are subjected to US standards, all PLA aviation branches will be grounded.

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## Zabaniyah

houshanghai said:


> All F22 were suspended because of the Oxygen Generation System now
> 
> how to lock by our J10 now


 
They fixed that problem already. 

Sorry to be blunt, but the J-10 is really no match against the F-22.

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## HROBOS

I watched yesterday (this discussion to get to other forums).
You should not disappoint the Chinese comrades, the results of answers to your question (Pls advise me if it is real?).
For those who understand what I wrote.


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## houshanghai

Zabanya said:


> They fixed that problem already.
> 
> Sorry to be blunt, but the J-10 is really no match against the F-22.


 i know it.I was only joking

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## houshanghai

HROBOS said:


> I watched yesterday (this discussion to get to other forums).
> You should not disappoint the Chinese comrades, the results of answers to your question (Pls advise me if it is real?).
> For those who understand what I wrote.


 this is a real infs.... You do not doubt or debate it.
pupu is *NO1* BOSS in chinese denfence forum.His position is just like PDF's *pshamim*

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## HROBOS

houshanghai said:


> this is a real infs.... You do not doubt or debate it.
> pupu is *NO1* BOSS in chinese denfence forum.His position is just like PDF's *pshamim*


 
The Chinese can do any number of self-congratulation. If this happens at the expense of Russia, so this concerns me. What is your problem and you do not like about this situation? I believe that all is fair. So breathe deeply, it is reassuring.


----------



## tanlixiang28776

HROBOS said:


> The Chinese can do any number of self-congratulation. If this happens at the expense of Russia, so this concerns me. What is your problem and you do not like about this situation? I believe that all is fair. So breathe deeply, it is reassuring.


 
Google translator =/= actual understanding of a language.

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## HROBOS

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Google translator =/= actual understanding of a language.


 
I have an indiscreet question. You're an American flag hung for decoration or just a fan of the U.S.? If you prefer to love China from afar, it's your problem. I have no desire to leave their homeland. Therefore, a perfect command of English is not a priority for me in life. If you do not understand my comment - ask clarification. If you do not like my opinion, (this is your problem). This is not fatal - will survive.


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## mhb56

You are not like other russians I have seen here before. Are you some russian intelligence guy sniffing around PDF. I'm simply asking. Your English is strange to me.

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## HROBOS

mhb56 said:


> You are not like other russians I have seen here before. Are you some russian intelligence guy sniffing around PDF. I'm simply asking. Your English is strange to me.


 
Please indicate. What is the peculiarity of my translation?


----------



## hieutd

Division 371 ( Thang Long ) has no Su-30MK2, only Su-22M-4/UM-3K and MiG-21bis/UM. So it must be fake news from boasting Chinese guy Pupu. and other Chinese guy in this forum


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## navp007

Yes its true j10 locked su-30 10 times but missile's was jammed.

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## houshanghai

hieutd said:


> Division 371 ( Thang Long ) has no Su-30MK2, only Su-22M-4/UM-3K and MiG-21bis/UM. So it must be fake news from boasting Chinese guy Pupu. and other Chinese guy in this forum


 
only google translate error

you do not understand Chinese.so I understand you.

The real literally means that "where are the Vietnam trump Division TangLong at this time "

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## rcrmj

navp007 said:


> Yes its true j10 locked su-30 10 times but missile's was jammed.


 
lol where did you get that information the missile was jammed?!?

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## navp007

rcrmj said:


> lol where did you get that information the missile was jammed?!?


 
like most of my pakistani bro's i ll use a word it was classified report


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## S10

navp007 said:


> like most of my pakistani bro's i ll use a word it was classified report


I heard your brain was jammed from a classified report.

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## navp007

S10 said:


> I heard your brain was jammed from a classified report.



lol some thing burning.


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## tanlixiang28776

navp007 said:


> lol some thing burning.


 
Your pants obviously. making statements and then saying their "classified" to cover up the fact that you're making stuff up is quite funny though.

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## Jungibaaz

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Your pants obviously. making statements and then saying their "classified" to cover up the fact that you're making stuff up is quite funny though.


 
Had dealt with this dude long ago too, got banned a while ago, now he's back.

do yourself a favour mate, give up on him and ignore, some folks wont ever change!

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## navp007

Jungibaaz said:


> Had dealt with this dude long ago too, got banned a while ago, now he's back.
> 
> do yourself a favour mate, give up on him and ignore, some folks wont ever change!


 
yeah some folks will never change. for normal post also your MOD will give infraction, every one knows that. even you people talk bad abt india dey wont give you infraction.


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## navp007

tanlixiang28776 said:


> Your pants obviously. making statements and then saying their "classified" to cover up the fact that you're making stuff up is quite funny though.


 
yeah im getting fun for sure.


----------



## Jungibaaz

navp007 said:


> yeah some folks will never change. for normal post also your MOD will give infraction, every one knows that. even you people talk bad abt india dey wont give you infraction.


 
hahaha! mate I remember your flamebait troll post that got you banned.
See the difference between you and other Indian members here who don't get infractions!

If you troll like your doing now, then infraction you should expect.
Don't blame mods for doing the right thing!

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## navp007

Jungibaaz said:


> hahaha! mate I remember your flamebait troll post that got you banned.
> See the difference between you and other Indian members here who don't get infractions!
> 
> If you troll like your doing now, then infraction you should expect.
> Don't blame mods for doing the right thing!


 
bcz of aerospace engnr i lost my temper ok, he use to criticize Indians and India as well. so i use same language. and more over im in hurry don't have time to reply. have flight in few hours to Chicago.


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## Jungibaaz

navp007 said:


> bcz of aerospace engnr i loose my temper ok, he use to criticize Indians and India as well. so i use same language. and more over im in hurry don't have time to reply. have flight in few hours to Chicago.


 
aerospace engineer? really?
You must be a civilian aerospace engineering.

From what I've debated with you, you didn't seem to know much about military aviation.
and... there is no excuse to troll

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## navp007

Jungibaaz said:


> aerospace engineer? really?
> You must be a civilian aerospace engineering.
> 
> From what I've debated with you, you didn't seem to know much about military aviation.
> and... there is no excuse to troll



use glasses,im an electrical engineer ok. and i said because of aerospace engineer i lost my temper ok.


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## navp007

pay attention bro please read carefully.


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## Cambodia Spirit

Viva_Viet said:


> I don't know VN have or not, but we know how to defend against this boom.We make many Faraday cage already.



You have no ability to have and control that thing. Keep your voice down and look at yourself through the mirror to see how is your level.



Nowaday said:


> Vietnam has emp bomb or not? No answer, It is a military secret. I just want to say something: Don't underestimate the opponent.



threatening is the only thing Vietnam can do well, we get used to that for thousand years!!! The Chinese are so humble, if you do the same to the Yank your country will be gone and disappear in World map long time ago.

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## Norboo

Zabanya said:


> Russian exports are usually the downgraded versions. So, they may not be as good the Russians themselves use.


Absolutely correct! All export versions are downgraded. Even the proposed sale of F-35s to Israel by the US of A are not what the US Navy/Air force would get!


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## Zabaniyah

navp007 said:


> use glasses,im an electrical engineer ok. and i said because of aerospace engineer i lost my temper ok.


 
That user 'Aerospace Engineer' is not an aerospace engineer. Don't take him too seriously 



Norboo said:


> Absolutely correct! All export versions are downgraded. Even the proposed sale of F-35s to Israel by the US of A are not what the US Navy/Air force would get!


 
Yes but generally, the US export variants are better than the Russian ones. The Israeli F-16Is are formidable machines. I wouldn't be surprised if the same applied to Israeli F-35s.

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## NiceGuy

Cambodia Spirit said:


> You have no ability to have and control that thing. Keep your voice down and look at yourself through the mirror to see how is your level.
> 
> 
> 
> threatening is the only thing Vietnam can do well, we get used to that for thousand years!!! The Chinese are so humble, if you do the same to the Yank your country will be gone and disappear in World map long time ago.


 
1.Hehe, who knows what VN have?? we have lots of money from CHina's donation in Laos-Cam, Japan-ADB support to buy weapons, so Why must I keep my voice down ??We're living in True independence country, we have the right to raise our voices , bro 

2.Threatening ??threatening at whoms ??we're small country, we make No threatening to any one.


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## tomluter

Pupu? the author or translator of the book _sunset in komsomolsk_? 
He is a pro-Russia in Chinese web. if he said so, it should be reliability. now, I recollect his fun story about N.Korea import J-7e from China happend a few years ago.

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## tomtran

Please stop this BS discussion, bragging Chinese fanbois. This is a totally BS news. Viet's SU-30 are not used for border fighting, ever. If you know Viet's geography, Ninh Thuan airbase is near the South of Vietnam, where SU-30 exercises can be seen taking defense of Spratly. Tell me if China can somehow send its fighters flying over a thousands of kilometers over Viet's sky without detection, and even had to be refueled before they could return. While we all agree that China has been growing rapidly in the last few years, they are still a learner in the making. Stop talk big, do hard work before you can do something for real. Bragging China is the best in this and that, China can defeat US Russia etc in one day or two etc doesn't do good for the world or the average Li in a muck-like third world country.

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## S10

tomtran said:


> Please stop this BS discussion, bragging Chinese fanbois. This is a totally BS news. Viet's SU-30 are not used for border fighting, ever. If you know Viet's geography, Ninh Thuan airbase is near the South of Vietnam, where SU-30 exercises can be seen taking defense of Spratly. Tell me if China can somehow send its fighters flying over a thousands of kilometers over Viet's sky without detection, and even had to be refueled before they could return. While we all agree that China has been growing rapidly in the last few years, they are still a learner in the making. Stop talk big, do hard work before you can do something for real. Bragging China is the best in this and that, China can defeat US Russia etc in one day or two etc doesn't do good for the world or the average Li in a muck-like third world country.


First find where your Su-30 is based, then rant. Four of your Su-30s based near Hanoi was throughly trashed, and your defence minister panicked. Did I mention you went shopping for ECCM equipments from Russians and Indians shortly after? Talk about scared.

By the way, we can prefectly patrol down in South China Sea anytime we want to. That's the advantage of in-flight refueling capability which you don't have.

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## tomtran

S10 said:


> First find where your Su-30 is based, then rant. Four of your Su-30s based near Hanoi was throughly trashed, and your defence minister panicked. Did I mention you went shopping for ECCM equipments from Russians and Indians shortly after? Talk about scared.
> 
> By the way, we can prefectly patrol down in South China Sea anytime we want to. That's the advantage of in-flight refueling capability which you don't have.


 
Perfect, china is the best, good luck bragging, fanbois In Vietnam, we call it "auto erotica". This is my last post in this thread. Bragging about something 100% fake then putting up some fancy scenarios, well, not the work of the Vietnamese people. We are very materialistic people. We don't like neither imaginary scenario nor brag about our capability. We work hard to make up for what we have lost in the last century. We want peace but we are not afraid of fighting. We are good at defending our territory but we refrain from showing off to the world how strong, ruthless we are when we have to fight for our name.

Btw, to many who are bragging about China's military: while I agree that China has made many progress in recent years, you have quiet overestimated the strength of China'a army, even when it comes to the underdog Vietnam. Without using any insulting words, CHina is much like a paper tiger who can roam very quickly but cannot sustain should a conflict spiral out of control. We are talking about a war, not a battle. China can win a battle, but China will lose in the whole war. To win a battle, more concentration of arms and troops can quickly overcome any resistance. But you guys haven't learned the very principles taught in every historical China literature "clement weather, geography, and people". Missing one of those three will utterly result in failure. 1st: When China is much reliant on external resources and demand for export, a minor conflict can result in interruption of its economy and its military funding, ultimately. Remember SCS is the busiest sea lane. 2nd: China doesn't possess any geographical advantage in a conflict in SCS, too far from its shore support, where Vietnam and the Philippines can effectively outflank any maneuver and cut off its logistic supply. Vietnam is only a few hundreds of kms from the islands chain, where fighter jets can suppress any sea intrusion in a matter of half an hour. Shoreline antiship missiles are a bigger threat than high-tech weapons in a jungle-like warfare. 3rd: China has many of its own domestic problems. A war, if goes well as in the best scenario, can help promote unity and patriotism. But if not as planned, disaster is guaranteed, including segmentation and breaking up into small regions. Look at the lesson of the Soviet, now the US getting bogged down in a seemingly relatively easy battle against a rag-tag army. A smart leader would not risk their legend to fight for an uncertain future. So it is up to you, talk smart, or end up bragging about something unreal and have fun with your comrade

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## NiceGuy

S10 said:


> First find where your Su-30 is based, then rant. Four of your Su-30s based near Hanoi was throughly trashed, and your defence minister panicked. Did I mention you went shopping for ECCM equipments from Russians and Indians shortly after? Talk about scared.
> 
> By the way, we can prefectly patrol down in South China Sea anytime we want to. That's the advantage of in-flight refueling capability which you don't have.


 
Oki, you can patrol and guard for Vn oil rig when we drill oil, thanks for your free protection from sky, bro


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## S10

tomtran said:


> Perfect, china is the best, good luck bragging, fanbois In Vietnam, we call it "auto erotica". This is my last post in this thread. Bragging about something 100% fake then putting up some fancy scenarios, well, not the work of the Vietnamese people. We are very materialistic people. We don't like neither imaginary scenario nor brag about our capability. We work hard to make up for what we have lost in the last century. We want peace but we are not afraid of fighting. We are good at defending our territory but we refrain from showing off to the world how strong, ruthless we are when we have to fight for our name.
> 
> Btw, to many who are bragging about China's military: while I agree that China has made many progress in recent years, you have quiet overestimated the strength of China'a army, even when it comes to the underdog Vietnam. Without using any insulting words, CHina is much like a paper tiger who can roam very quickly but cannot sustain should a conflict spiral out of control. We are talking about a war, not a battle. China can win a battle, but China will lose in the whole war. To win a battle, more concentration of arms and troops can quickly overcome any resistance. But you guys haven't learned the very principles taught in every historical China literature "clement weather, geography, and people". Missing one of those three will utterly result in failure. 1st: When China is much reliant on external resources and demand for export, a minor conflict can result in interruption of its economy and its military funding, ultimately. Remember SCS is the busiest sea lane. 2nd: China doesn't possess any geographical advantage in a conflict in SCS, too far from its shore support, where Vietnam and the Philippines can effectively outflank any maneuver and cut off its logistic supply. Vietnam is only a few hundreds of kms from the islands chain, where fighter jets can suppress any sea intrusion in a matter of half an hour. Shoreline antiship missiles are a bigger threat than high-tech weapons in a jungle-like warfare. 3rd: China has many of its own domestic problems. A war, if goes well as in the best scenario, can help promote unity and patriotism. But if not as planned, disaster is guaranteed, including segmentation and breaking up into small regions. Look at the lesson of the Soviet, now the US getting bogged down in a seemingly relatively easy battle against a rag-tag army. A smart leader would not risk their legend to fight for an uncertain future. So it is up to you, talk smart, or end up bragging about something unreal and have fun with your comrade


Your defence minister didn't think it was fake when he ran to Beijing.


NiceGuy said:


> Oki, you can patrol and guard for Vn oil rig when we drill oil, thanks for your free protection from sky, bro


All of your rigs are limited to the coast. When you tried getting into deeper waters, we slash your cables. U MAD?

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## Obambam

S10 said:


> Your defence minister didn't think it was fake when he ran to Beijing.
> 
> *All of your rigs are limited to the coast. When you tried getting into deeper waters, we slash your cables. U MAD?*


 
He is not mad, because he can tell Vietnam to fire deadly unstoppable Yakhont anti ship missles at Chinese carrier and have have them keep replacing their cables. 
The protests back home was actually a nationwide celebration.

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## NiceGuy

> Your defence minister didn't think it was fake when he ran to Beijing.
> 
> All of your rigs are limited to the coast. When you tried getting into deeper waters, we slash your cables. U MAD?





Obambam said:


> He is not mad, because he can tell Vietnam to fire deadly unstoppable Yakhont anti ship missles at Chinese carrier and have have them keep replacing their cables.
> The protests back home was actually a nationwide celebration.


 
At least we have some Guard point inside your Red line.


> Bãi c&#7841;n T&#432; Chính
> 
> C&#7909;m nhà giàn *T&#432; Chính *&#273;&#432;&#7907;c thành l&#7853;p chính th&#7913;c t&#7915; ngày 4 tháng 7 n&#259;m 1989, xây d&#7921;ng trên bãi c&#7841;n* T&#432; Chính (Vanguard Bank)* trên vùng bi&#7875;n Tr&#432;&#7901;ng Sa. C&#7909;m hi&#7879;n t&#7841;i có 3 nhà giàn &#273;ang s&#7917; d&#7909;ng.



VN's guard point in Vanguard Bank(Tu CHinh)

http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/DK1






you can see on the map: Tu CHinh VUng May is inside Red line


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## Obambam

NiceGuy said:


> At least we have some Guard point inside your Red line.
> 
> 
> VN's guard point in Vanguard Bank(Tu CHinh)
> 
> http://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/DK1
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *you can see on the map: Tu CHinh VUng May is inside Red line*


 
Thus it gives us reasons to go inside what you regard is yours and cut your cables.

You can come back for more when Vietnam has a guard point setup on Spratleys or Paracels.

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## zon95

Weirdo! if you want to post disgusting stuff,pls. dont do it in a sticky thread! (This is not a China forum)




lawxx said:


> Vietnam SU - 30 by J - 10 Lock 10 times
> News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
> News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
> According to him: Vietnam June 13 exercises, j-10 in the South Vietnamese Air Force over the lock, "Thang Long" division of a SU-30 four-plane formation in Viet Nam can not find the J-10's case, J -10 with the fire control radar to lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked s-30 at least twice. At the same time, also cut more aircraft formation with the ground command center of the radio communications, and forcibly inserted into the communication channel, and more pilots on the good-neighborly friendly relations with the Chinese started a warm and amicable discussion.
> 
> Ô½ÄÏÔö¹º20¼ÜËÕ-30MK2Õ½»ú Ê×Åú4¼ÜÒÑ½»¸¶ - µÚ3Ò³ - ¾üÊÂ³©Ì¸ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛÌ³
> 
> "Pupu" the contents of the original words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> """Pupu" the last paragraph of the original meaning of words is:the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock.Vietnam combat pilot almost lost confidence. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.,

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## rcrmj

vietminh said:


> Weirdo! if you want to post disgusting stuff,pls. dont do it in a sticky thread! (This is not a China forum)


its fact kido``

and please ask your fella viets to leave disgusting posts out of Chinese forum``you guys made PDF Chinese section vile since May this year!

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## Zabaniyah

vietminh said:


> Weirdo! if you want to post disgusting stuff,pls. dont do it in a sticky thread! (This is not a China forum)



Pupu is said to be a very credible source.

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## vtnsx

I just realized that it's really pointless to have a debate with these chinese. Most of them don't even live in China. Most from Canada or UK and US. I know most of my Chinese friends don't like China. They are afraid that if they go back to China, they can't come back. I know more about you than you know about yourself my China Friends. So stop bragging about your mighty millitary power and start loving your neighbours Vietnam. Congrads to China with their AF techs and J-20. You make your chinese ppl proud. I thought Chinese ppl are smarter than this. If you created your weapons to invade my country's soveirnty and make threats, I will not stand there and let you harm my people. That's the bottom line. It's the basic principle of survival my China friend. You're growing to fast but you never make time to explore your experience. Stop using someone's facts and figures, those aren't your experience.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

vtnsx said:


> I just realized that it's really pointless to have a debate with these chinese. Most of them don't even live in China. Most from Canada or UK and US. I know most of my Chinese friends don't like China. They are afraid that if they go back to China, they can't come back. I know more about you than you know about yourself my China Friends. So stop bragging about your mighty millitary power and start loving your neighbours Vietnam. Congrads to China with their AF techs and J-20. You make your chinese ppl proud. I thought Chinese ppl are smarter than this. If you created your weapons to invade my country's soveirnty and make threats, I will not stand there and let you harm my people. That's the bottom line. It's the basic principle of survival my China friend. You're growing to fast but you never make time to explore your experience. Stop using someone's facts and figures, those aren't your experience.



It's a good self education though...no further comments

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## S10

vtnsx said:


> I just realized that it's really pointless to have a debate with these chinese. Most of them don't even live in China. Most from Canada or UK and US. I know most of my Chinese friends don't like China. They are afraid that if they go back to China, they can't come back. I know more about you than you know about yourself my China Friends. So stop bragging about your mighty millitary power and start loving your neighbours Vietnam. Congrads to China with their AF techs and J-20. You make your chinese ppl proud. I thought Chinese ppl are smarter than this. If you created your weapons to invade my country's soveirnty and make threats, I will not stand there and let you harm my people. That's the bottom line. It's the basic principle of survival my China friend. You're growing to fast but you never make time to explore your experience. Stop using someone's facts and figures, those aren't your experience.


Hmm, another butthurt Viet. Don't have to water the marijuana plants today? I also know about your people more than you know yourselves, from criminological statistics.

How did you like that generalization? You didn't? Don't make them then.

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## Rechoice

S10 said:


> Hmm, another butthurt Viet. Don't have to water the marijuana plants today? I also know about your people more than you know yourselves, from criminological statistics.
> 
> How did you like that generalization? You didn't? Don't make them then.



Do you have been used marijuana planted by Viet ? could you make difference between marijuana and cocaine in mix ? you could know your real identify when you are not Chinese in pure race ? What do Han Chinese look you, up or down when they know about you that you belong to minority Manchuria nation in fact ?


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## vtnsx

S10 said:


> Hmm, another butthurt Viet. Don't have to water the marijuana plants today? I also know about your people more than you know yourselves, from criminological statistics.
> 
> How did you like that generalization? You didn't? Don't make them then.



You don't make any sense. Again, the more you talk without making a point, you are not making any sense. You talk like a 10 years old. Go get some real life experience then come back and talk to me.


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## S10

Rechoice said:


> Do you have been used marijuana planted by Viet ? could you make difference between marijuana and cocaine in mix ? you could know your real identify when you are not Chinese in pure race ? What do Han Chinese look you, up or down when they know about you that you belong to minority Manchuria nation in fact ?


No, I do not use drugs or grow them, unlike most Viets I come across. Perhaps if you people did not operate such a large chunk of the drug business, you wouldn't have such a bad rept in Canada. Once again, you demonstrated yourself to be an idiot by talking about my ethnicity. My birth certificate clearly stateds Han. Furthermore, Manchus are part of the Chinese nation. Viets on the other hand, are just Viets, nothing more.



vtnsx said:


> You don't make any sense. Again, the more you talk without making a point, you are not making any sense. You talk like a 10 years old. Go get some real life experience then come back and talk to me.


That's funny. I am not the one claiming to know more about Chinese than Chinese themselves. You made a retarded generalization and got called on it. By your logic, all Viets are drug growers right?

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## below_freezing

vtnsx said:


> I just realized that it's really pointless to have a debate with these chinese. Most of them don't even live in China. Most from Canada or UK and US. I know most of my Chinese friends don't like China. They are afraid that if they go back to China, they can't come back. I know more about you than you know about yourself my China Friends. So stop bragging about your mighty millitary power and start loving your neighbours Vietnam. Congrads to China with their AF techs and J-20. You make your chinese ppl proud. I thought Chinese ppl are smarter than this. If you created your weapons to invade my country's soveirnty and make threats, I will not stand there and let you harm my people. That's the bottom line. It's the basic principle of survival my China friend. You're growing to fast but you never make time to explore your experience. Stop using someone's facts and figures, those aren't your experience.



yeah, you don't live in Canada or US?  give me a break! if they don't want to go to China, why are your beautiful ladies going from Vietnam to China, sometimes even swimming across the border?

No matter how bad China is, Vietnam will always be worse in every way.

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## Rechoice

S10 said:


> No, I do not use drugs or grow them, unlike most Viets I come across. Perhaps if you people did not operate such a large chunk of the drug business, you wouldn't have such a bad rept in Canada. Once again, you demonstrated yourself to be an idiot by talking about my ethnicity. My birth certificate clearly stateds Han. Furthermore, Manchus are part of the Chinese nation. Viets on the other hand, are just Viets, nothing more.
> 
> 
> That's funny. I am not the one claiming to know more about Chinese than Chinese themselves. You made a retarded generalization and got called on it. By your logic, all Viets are drug growers right?



You demonstrated yourself to be an idiot Manchuria guy by misusing your ethnicity, you aren't Han Chinese. Your birth certicficate is fake document.


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## S10

Rechoice said:


> You demonstrated yourself to be an idiot Manchuria guy by misusing your ethnicity, you aren't Han Chinese. Your birth certicficate is fake document.


Heh, a retarded Viet telling me what ethnicity I am supposed to be? Just last month your fellow retards were telling me I am a Baiyue, and now you're telling me I'm a Manchu? You've seen my birth certificate to know it's fake now? Just when I thought you can't get anymore pathetic.

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## gambit

Rechoice said:


> I coy and past your original post:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-defence/73707-history-china-12.html
> 
> "*I would have done it if I wasn't half Manchu. My father side is Manchu from Heilongjiang and my mother's side is from Hunan.*"
> 
> There is evident for you, mixed kid denied your ethnicity and registered as Han Chinese.


It is quite interesting...



> S10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I would have done it if I wasn't half Manchu.* My father side is Manchu from Heilongjiang and my mother's side is from Hunan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> S10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Only my grandmother was Manchu while the rest of my family is Han.
> 
> ...but *China is a patriachical society in which the son's lineage follows that of his father*. Since my grandfather was Han, so was my father, and so am I. *Being 1/4 Manchu* does not qualify me as one, get it?
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Sounds like the man would rather be 'popular' and ID-ed himself as a Han. The more Han Chinese encountered here, the less his Manchu side exist. On 07-04-2011 01:17 AM he was 1/2 Manchu, then on 08-27-2011 08:49 AM he sheds 1/4. Soon enough he will exorcise his Manchu-ness completely and deny his father ever exist...

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## S10

gambit said:


> It is quite interesting...
> 
> 
> Sounds like the man would rather be 'popular' and ID-ed himself as a Han. The more Han Chinese encountered here, the less his Manchu side exist. On 07-04-2011 01:17 AM he was 1/2 Manchu, then on 08-27-2011 08:49 AM he sheds 1/4. Soon enough he will exorcise his Manchu-ness completely and deny his father ever exist...


Another Viet sticking up for his kind's stupidity? But you do provide a good cheap laugh.

Under the banner system, I can be classified as 1/2 Manchu, since my father's parents were both people of the banners system, known as "Qi (Flag) Ren (People)" in China. My father had a choice to register both Han or Manchu, since my grandfather was from a Han banner. Since my mother is also Han, naturally by bloodline I'm 1/4 Manchu. However under the Manchu banner system, I am half, thus I could register both ways.

Maybe this legal/clan stuff is too much for your smooth brains. Don't hurt yourself in the confusion.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

gambit said:


> It is quite interesting...
> 
> 
> Sounds like the man would rather be 'popular' and ID-ed himself as a Han. The more Han Chinese encountered here, the less his Manchu side exist. On 07-04-2011 01:17 AM he was 1/2 Manchu, then on 08-27-2011 08:49 AM he sheds 1/4. Soon enough he will exorcise his Manchu-ness completely and deny his father ever exist...



Regarless how many percentage of Manchu blood, we're happy to have them in Chinese blood and be part of the collectif: Manchurians were great warriors who extended chinese empire and enlarge our territory...

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## gambit

S10 said:


> Another Viet sticking up for his kind's stupidity? But you do provide a good cheap laugh.
> 
> Under the banner system, I can be classified as 1/2 Manchu, since my father's parents were both people of the banners system, known as "Qi (Flag) Ren (People)" in China. My father had a choice to register both Han or Manchu, since my grandfather was from a Han banner. Since my mother is also Han, naturally by bloodline I'm 1/4 Manchu. However under the Manchu banner system, I am half, thus I could register both ways.
> 
> Maybe this legal/clan stuff is too much for your smooth brains. Don't hurt yourself in the confusion.


What is truly laughable is that you can say that with a straight face. You are not saying anything new to me. I grew up on the US State of Hawaii, specifically the island of Oahu, where Asians of all stripes dominate over other ethnicities. I grew up with Chinese friends, from US borne to Chinese emigres, and all of them were glad they no longer had to deal with the ethnic identification mess you defend. Reading you going about it was like watching a cliche of a con man moving his three cups hiding a pea.


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## gambit

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Regarless how many percentage of Manchu blood, we're happy to have them in Chinese blood and be part of the collectif: Manchurians were great warriors who extended chinese empire and enlarge our territory...


My family was from North Viet Nam and my grandfather is 1/4 Chinese. If I move my eight cups fast enough, that %100 Han Chinese pea will show up somewhere...


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## S10

gambit said:


> What is truly laughable is that you can say that with a straight face. You are not saying anything new to me. I grew up on the US State of Hawaii, specifically the island of Oahu, where Asians of all stripes dominate over other ethnicities. I grew up with Chinese friends, from US borne to Chinese emigres, and all of them were glad they no longer had to deal with the ethnic identification mess you defend. Reading you going about it was like watching a cliche of a con man moving his three cups hiding a pea.


Oh I am sorry that your pea brain cannot handle a statement of fact regarding how an ethnic group classify its members. So let me simplify it down for you so it doesn't strain your brain cells or anything.

3 groups made up Manchurians
- Eight Han banners (grandfather)
- Eight Mongol banners
- Eight Manchu banners (grandmother)

Traditional Manchu banner system: 1/2
Going by actual bloodline: 1/4

That should be easily understood even by an eight years old child. If you still have trouble understanding, immediately consult with your local social agency about your mental disability.



gambit said:


> My family was from North Viet Nam and my grandfather is 1/4 Chinese. If I move my eight cups fast enough, that %100 Han Chinese pea will show up somewhere...


Careful, if you count to ten you might get a stroke from straining your mental limit.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

gambit said:


> My family was from North Viet Nam and my grandfather is 1/4 Chinese. If I move my eight cups fast enough, that %100 Han Chinese pea will show up somewhere...



Don't underestimate the force of collectif, we chinese are "BORG" in starTREK..."*any resistance is futile*"

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## S10

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Don't underestimate the force of collectif, we chinese are "BORG" in starTREK..."*any resistance is futile*"


Do you have trouble understanding the banner system I described? It seems to be way too complex for the Viets here to grasp.

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## gambit

S10 said:


> Oh I am sorry that your pea brain cannot handle a statement of fact regarding how an ethnic group classify its members. So let me simplify it down for you so it doesn't strain your brain cells or anything.
> 
> 3 groups made up Manchurians
> - Eight Han banners (grandfather)
> - Eight Mongol banners
> - Eight Manchu banners (grandmother)
> 
> *Traditional Manchu banner system: 1/2
> Going by actual bloodline: 1/4*
> 
> That should be easily understood even by an eight years old child. If you still have trouble understanding, immediately consult with your local social agency about your mental disability.
> 
> 
> Careful, if you count to ten you might get a stroke from straining your mental limit.


Aaaahhh...I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. What you are essentially saying is that any Chinese call spin himself any ethnic he wants depending on the majority of the current company.


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## S10

gambit said:


> Aaaahhh...I get it now. Thanks for clarifying. What you are essentially saying is that any Chinese call spin himself any ethnic he wants depending on the majority of the current company.


Heh, nice try about twisting the facts. Ever heard of documentation? Here is a surprise for you, you actually have to present proof to register your ethnicity in birth certificates. My family keeps those to preserve our family history, not that you would know anything about tradition being run out of Vietnam by your own kind.

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## vtnsx

S10 said:


> Heh, nice try about twisting the facts. Ever heard of documentation? Here is a surprise for you, you actually have to present proof to register your ethnicity in birth certificates. My family keeps those to preserve our family history, not that you would know anything about tradition being run out of Vietnam by your own kind.


 
Your own kind? LOL Buddy welcome to the 21st Century. Vietnam is a changing place. We welcome all nationalities. Make friends not enemies. I wish one day the Vietnamese governements would move toward democracy. History is history, what's now is now and what's "now" will be history 20 years from now.


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## Beast

Vietnam buys Su-30MKK and Kilo Sub. Everything PRC already has.. In my opinion, Vietnam shall go for western weapons if they really wants to stand a little bit of chance against PLAAF.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Beast said:


> Vietnam buys Su-30MKK and Kilo Sub. Everything PRC already has.. In my opinion, Vietnam shall go for western weapons if they really wants to stand a little bit of chance against PLAAF.



Even if Vietnam has F-22 they won't stand a chance.


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## NiceGuy

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Even if Vietnam has F-22 they won't stand a chance.


China is always Win in fighting by Mouth 

In fact No China's fighter dare to flight during VN_China conflict from 1979-1988.

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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> China is always Win in fighting by Mouth
> 
> In fact No China's fighter dare to flight during VN_China conflict from 1979-1988.



He was right, the raptor is only a killer when the USAF is using it.

While Vietnam doesn't have the entire system to support it, nor you have the money to maintain these expensive raptors.

Today is mostly about the information warfare, only with few fancy weapons aren't going to work against China.

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## Beast

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Even if Vietnam has F-22 they won't stand a chance.



Quite true. PLA is far too strong and powerful. I think Our Ballistic Missile already perfect with high precise CEP is enough to flatten all Vietnam Airbase and military installation.

If USA demonstrated a new modern era of using airpower of dominating a war in Gulf War 1. PLA will open a new chapter of modern military tactics/warfare of using only Ballistic Missile to dominate opponent.

Beidou II (compass ) GPS is operational , couple with Inertial and GPS, our missiles are highly accurate.

SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com

WS-2 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

DongFeng 15 (CSS-6, M-9) Short-Range Ballistic Missile - SinoDefence.com

CJ-10 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_ballistic_missile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-802

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-602

I bet within one hour, the Sino-Vietnam border between 50-100km will be cleared off of any Vietnam forces.

All Vietnam Airbase are suppressed , Vietnam Naval bases will be destoyed , ships will sunk in harbour by C-805 or ASBM....

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## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> Quite true. PLA is far too strong and powerful. I think Our Ballistic Missile already perfect with high precise CEP is enough to flatten all Vietnam Airbase and military installation.
> 
> If USA demonstrated a new modern era of using airpower of dominating a war in Gulf War 1. PLA will open a new chapter of modern military tactics/warfare of using only Ballistic Missile to dominate opponent.
> 
> SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com
> 
> WS-2 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com
> 
> DongFeng 15 (CSS-6, M-9) Short-Range Ballistic Missile - SinoDefence.com
> 
> CJ-10 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com
> 
> I bet within one hour, the Sino-Vietnam border between 50-100km will be cleared off of any Vietnam forces.
> 
> All Vietnam Airbase are suppressed



China has aggressively pursued the military revolution since 1990.

Many people simply don't understand all those individual weapons are absolutely useless against the weapons that all share the common datalink nowadays in the modern battlefield.

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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> He was right, the raptor is only a killer when the USAF is using it.
> 
> While Vietnam doesn't have the entire system to support it, nor you have the money to maintain these expensive raptors.
> 
> Today is mostly about the information warfare, only with few fancy weapons aren't going to work against China.


Hehe, and come to test with our defense system if you have the Guts. don't just keep your cheap copy fighter insie hangar and blah blah. 

China had lots of NATO fighter during VN-China conflict, but she dare not use, bcz her pilot suck

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Hehe, and come to test with our defense system if you have the Guts. don't just keep your cheap copy fighter insie hangar and blah blah.
> 
> China had lots of NATO fighter during VN-China conflict, but she dare not use, bcz her pilot suck



You dont like to talk about current situation is it? Hanging on to 2 decades history does not reflect well on Vietnam Forces....

Now is 2012, PLAAF need not even take off the plane ... Cos our Ballistic Missile is enough to take care of Vietnam.. Look at the link I posted, A huge variant of long range Ballistic Missile and cruise missile to demonstrate the vast level of differents between PLA and Vietnam Forces...

Can you show me what kind of Missile Vietnam have? 

Mr Vietnam.. Be REALISTIC!! Accept your shortcoming..


----------



## punnu83

lawxx said:


> But according to "pupu" argument: Even if India to help Vietnam, that is without any effect.


improve your f***ing english please


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Hehe, and come to test with our defense system if you have the Guts. don't just keep your cheap copy fighter insie hangar and blah blah.
> 
> *China had lots of NATO fighter during VN-China conflict*, but she dare not use, bcz her pilot suck



We never had any NATO fighter in our inventory, except we have bought few jet engines from them.

In 1979 we were only partially mechanized, but today we are fully mechanized with the enhanced information technology in most of the domains.

While today's Vietnam still relies on the foreign and its military modernization still stuck in the era of the 1970-1980s with only partial mechanization, our military modernization simply doesn't belong to the same generation with you guys.

Back in 1979, our conventional weapons definitely belonged to the same generation with you guys, but with poorer quality, since you guys got both weapons from USA and USSR, while we got stuck with the 10 years Cultural Revolution with everything getting rusty.

But today everything is different.

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## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> We never had any NATO fighter in our inventory, except we have bought few jet engines from them.
> 
> In 1979 we were only partially mechanized, but today we are fully mechanized with the enhanced information technology in most of the domains.
> 
> While today's Vietnam still relies on the foreign and its military modernization still stuck in the era of the 1970-1980s with only partial mechanization, our military modernization simply doesn't belong to the same generation with you guys.
> 
> Back in 1979, our conventional weapons definitely belonged to the same generation with you guys, but with poorer quality, since you guys got both weapons from USA and USSR, while we got stuck with the 10 years cultural revolution with everything getting rusty.
> 
> But today everything is different.


Hehe, and show that 'diffrent' to the World, you have a chance to show in China-Phil conflict now. let's see if your pilot skill still suck or not.In 2001, their skill still suck 


> A US EP-3 Aries II spy plane collides with a Chinese fighter jet over the South China Sea. The fighter crashes, *killing the pilot*
> US Military: Spy Plane Crash in China


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Hehe, and show that 'diffrent' to the World, let's see if your pilot skill still suck or not.In 2001, their skill still suck



It show nothing but the greatness of PLAAF. The EP-3 landed in Hainan and we ransack the whole plane and got the best of USA surveillance system.. 

Please show me your list of Vietnam wonder missile, I am waiting... I already show PLA Ballistic and cruise missile list. Where is yours?


SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com

WS-2 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

DongFeng 15 (CSS-6, M-9) Short-Range Ballistic Missile - SinoDefence.com

CJ-10 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-ship_ballistic_missile

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-802

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-602


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> Hehe, and show that 'diffrent' to the World, you have a chance to show in China-Phil conflict now. let's see if your pilot skill still suck or not.In 2001, their skill still suck



This happened in 11 years ago, China's GDP barely reached 1 trillion at that time, but today our GDP is 8-9 trillion and our military technology has improved tremendously.

At least the US of today couldn't do this again in the SCS like they were in 11 years ago.


----------



## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> This happened in 11 years ago, China's GDP barely reached 1 trillion at that time, but today our GDP is 8-9 trillion and our military technology has improved tremendously.
> 
> At least the US of today couldn't do this again in the SCS like they were in 11 years ago.



No need to talk to him(Niceguy), he feels so humilitated after realising his country armed forced shortcoming. He dare not even reply to my post of PLA ballistic and cruise missile list. Always try to evade the topic. 

Niceguy, accept your shortcoming and defeat! 

I AM PROUD OF CHINA!!!!


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> No need to talk to him(Niceguy), he feels so humilitated after realising his country armed forced shortcoming. He dare not even reply to my post of PLA ballistic and cruise missile list. Always try to evade the topic.
> 
> Niceguy, accept your shortcoming and defeat!
> 
> I AM PROUD OF CHINA!!!!



Yeah, he knows that the Iraq of 1990 will be a living example for his country if it goes to war with China.

He is somehow getting frustrated because of this fact.


----------



## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Yeah, he knows that the Iraq of 1990 will be a living example for his country if it goes to war with China.
> 
> He is somehow getting frustrated because of this fact.



We just need need to bump out real facts and data and this little pest will dumbfold and couldn't answer back any real facts or anything... They didn't realise current China is ascend to such powerful status 

They still think current China is still in the Maos era and PLAAF still flying J-6(mig-19) as frontline fighter...

Now PLAAF even regard Su-30MKK2 as inferior. We got something even better.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> We just need need to bump out real facts and data and this little pest will dumbfold and couldn't answer back any real facts or anything... They didn't realise current China is ascend to such powerful status
> 
> They still think current China is still in the Maos era and PLAAF still flying J-6(mig-19) as frontline fighter...
> 
> Now PLAAF even regard Su-30MKK2 as inferior. We got something even better.



Our military modernization does not belong to the same level, they are not even fully mechanized, while we are not only fully mechanized, but now we are heavily using the information warfare.

We can easily shoot down their SU-30MK2 even by using the inferior SU-30MKK.

China is a huge nation, which has all the available resources to ascend its military status into a whole new level, while country Vietnam can only rely on buying the foreign weapons.

They can never build their own entire system like US and China.


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> No need to talk to him(Niceguy), he feels so humilitated after realising his country armed forced shortcoming. He dare not even reply to my post of PLA ballistic and cruise missile list. Always try to evade the topic.
> 
> Niceguy, accept your shortcoming and defeat!
> 
> I AM PROUD OF CHINA!!!!


We're going to take Itu-aba isl, and PLAF can only sit and watch bcz China pilot's skill suck


> Itu Aba Island,* Vietnamese boats opened fire on the provocative Taiwan military fired warning shots*
> Posted about 22 days ago | 0 comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Core Tip: Taiwan&#8217;s &#8220;newsletter&#8221; said the March 22 and 26, the Vietnamese armed patrol boats, twice close to Itu Aba Island, the Taiwan sea patrol boats expelled were the other firing provocative, The Taiwan side then fired warning shots. Taiwan defenders of the Pacific Island state of emergency immediately ready returned fire.
> Itu Aba Island, Vietnamese boats opened fire on the provocative Taiwan military fired warning shots | Inside China


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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> We're going to take Itu-aba isl, and PLAF can only sit and watch



Can you use Missile to threaten me? Please... I want to see you yr list of invincible missile..


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Can you use Missile to threaten me? Please... I want to see you yr list of invincible missile..


Shaddock: nuclear capable plus canti-carrier missile. Only VN-Russia have.
S-300 PMU.
....

Many more stored inside Russia's arsenal.

PLAF and PLAN simply too weak to fight against VN army, that why they only can sit and watch when we rammed China's ship and opened fire at Itu-aba isl of Taiwan


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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Shaddock: nuclear capable plus canti-carrier missile. Only VN-Russia have.
> S-300 PMU.
> ....
> 
> Many more stored inside Russia's arsenal.
> 
> PLAF and PLAN simply too weak to fight against VN army, that why they only can sit and watch when we rammed China's ship and opened fire at Itu-aba isl of Taiwan



You just put a few words and not even a link to prove Vietnam has that missile and want us to believe you??  why not you put Indian Agni V or US trident missile??? 


we have better like S-300 PMU 2 plus domestic HQ-9 anti short range ballistic missile... How many S-300 missile do you have? 2 thousands? if I told you our Ballistic missile with pin point accuracy stockpile is more than 25000. Do you still think you have a chance? 

You look desperate to convince me


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> You just put a few words and not even a link to prove Vietnam has that missile and want us to believe you??  why not you put Indian Agni V or US trident missile???
> 
> 
> we have better like S-300 PMU 2 plus domestic HQ-9 anti short range ballistic missile... How many S-300 missile do you have? 2 thousands? if I told you our Ballistic missile with pin point accuracy stockpile is more than 25000. Do you still think you have a chance?
> 
> You look* desperate to convince me*


Then open your eyes bigger and see how corward PLAN and PLAF are when we rammed China's ship and fired at Itu-aba isl.


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

lawxx said:


> Vietnam SU - 30 by J - 10 Lock 10 times
> News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
> News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news, has revealed a large number of messages.
> According to him: Vietnam June 13 exercises, j-10 in the South Vietnamese Air Force over the lock, "Thang Long" division of a SU-30 four-plane formation in Viet Nam can not find the J-10's case, J -10 with the fire control radar to lock them a dozen times, each frame is locked s-30 at least twice. At the same time, also cut more aircraft formation with the ground command center of the radio communications, and forcibly inserted into the communication channel, and more pilots on the good-neighborly friendly relations with the Chinese started a warm and amicable discussion.
> 
> Ô½ÄÏÔö¹º20¼ÜËÕ-30MK2Õ½»ú Ê×Åú4¼ÜÒÑ½»¸¶ - µÚ3Ò³ - ¾üÊÂ³©Ì¸ - ³¬¼¶´ó±¾Óª¾üÊÂÂÛÌ³
> 
> "Pupu" the contents of the original words:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> """Pupu" the last paragraph of the original meaning of words is:the SU-30 is a continuous J-10 lock.Vietnam combat pilot almost lost confidence. Vietnam to seek Russian help to enhance the SU-30's electronic warfare capability. But Russia out of the astronomical prices, Vietnam can not accept this price, so the Vietnamese now call India for help.,



Real or fake? This is for the researchers of the VPAF.
About Vietnam's Su-30: It is a version Su-30MK2V, with "V" is dedicated to Vietnam.
It is 100% genuine goods from Russia, not imitation or copy.

This is information about it on Wikipedia:



> The Sukhoi Su-30MKK (NATO reporting name: Flanker-G)[1] is a modification of the Su-27 SK manufactured since 1999 by KnAAPO and Shenyang Aircraft Corporation. It is considered an upgraded version of Sukhoi Su-30. It was jointly developed by Russia and China, similar to the Su-30MKI. It is a heavy class, all-weather, long-range strike fighter, comparable to American F-15E. *Su-30MK2 is a further improvement to SU-30MKK with upgraded avionics and maritime strike capabilities*. The MKK and MK2 are currently operated by the People's Republic of China, the Indonesian Air Force, the Vietnam People's Air Force, the Uganda People's Defence Force,[2] and very recently, the Venezuelan Air Force.[3]


----------



## ViXuyen

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> They can never build their own entire system like US and China.


Sure, you know the future so well. That's why our strategy in the long run of countering your aircrafts would be developing anti-aircraft missile system, (we have already developed thermal battery, solid fueled) much more economical and less sophisticated than building the aircraft itself. We have also produced the equivalent of Russia's Kontur weather radar display and signal processor so it will be in a short while before we come up with a military radar/guidance for the anti-aircraft missile. Step by step we're moving toward in self sufficency in countering your air superiority; even if we can't hit you all but hit you hard enough to keep you guys think twice about waging with us

With a terrain like Viet Nam, your tank forces are just sitting ducks for our infantry men armed with RPG-29 (which we produce) to practice their shots. Imagine 1 million of those RPG-29 flying toward your mechanized forces from all over direction and your attack helicopters getting hit by those Igla-S anti-aircraft missiles (which we also produce)

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Then open your eyes bigger and see how corward PLAN and PLAF are when we rammed China's ship and fired at Itu-aba isl.



I can show you we are not coward by sinking yr 2 ships and killed 70 of yr men in and retake 7 island in 1988 spratly island incident.

Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have show you , we got real fang that can strike you while you cannot do anything to us by a list of potent cruise and ballistic missile.

SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com

WS-2 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

DongFeng 15 (CSS-6, M-9) Short-Range Ballistic Missile - SinoDefence.com

CJ-10 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

C-802 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

C-602 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What you are doing here is nothing but more to shame and humilitate Vietnam armed forces.. The hard reality is Vietnam will be easily overrun by PLA in less than a day given that if PLA decide to opt for the ballistic and cruise missile bombardment...

All your key installation will be take out. Your forces can't co-ordinate, no airforce, no navy... Simply just let us walk over you. 

Accept your fate!



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> Real or fake? This is for the researchers of the VPAF.
> About Vietnam's Su-30: It is a version Su-30MK2V, with "V" is dedicated to Vietnam.
> It is 100% genuine goods from Russia, not imitation or copy.
> 
> This is information about it on Wikipedia:



I bet even before it takes off, it will be destroyed..

SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com

WS-2 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

DongFeng 15 (CSS-6, M-9) Short-Range Ballistic Missile - SinoDefence.com

CJ-10 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com

Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

C-802 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

C-602 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You don't realise China is far far too powerful..

So what you think the Su-30Mkk is so special since we also have? We don't bother to even order more becos, the tech inside simply cannot match our surging technology..

Plus, China relationship with Russia has upgraded to strategic level.. We can ask Russia for more info. They will be happily provide all your technical of your version.. Or simply stop any aid to your side when war start..

Russian is very practical people. Who is powerful , he will side who. This is the reality of the real world.

Welcome to the real world, kid!


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> I can show you we are not coward by sinking yr 2 ships and killed 70 of yr men in and retake 7 island in 1988 spratly island incident.


Hehe, when I said: China pilot's skill suck, you guys said: "now is diffrent'. 

But when I prove that: "PLAF still suck now" they only can sit and watch us to ram China's ship and fired at Itu-aba, then you talk about a conflict of more 20 years ago . 20 years ago, your pilot's skill suck, can't compare with VN ace pilots who shot down B-52 bomber by Mig-21 and damage US seven fleet by Mig-17, dude.

--------> Your mind suck too, dude


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Hehe, when I said: China pilot's skill suck, you guys said: "now is diffrent'.
> 
> But when I prove that: "PLAF still suck now" they only can sit and watch us to ram China's ship and fired at Itu-aba, then you talk about a conflict of more 20 years ago . 20 years ago, your pilot's skill suck can't compare with VN ace pilots who shot down B-52 bomber, dude.
> 
> --------> Your mind suck too, dude



I know you can't beat me with facts and reality.. Insult and evade from reality is best what you can do... 

I ask you for list of missile, you can't.

Yr forces simply suck thumb and watch us roll over you.


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> I know you can't beat me with facts and reality.. Insult and evade from reality is best what you can do...
> 
> I ask you for list of missile, you can't.
> 
> Yr forces simply suck thumb and watch us roll over you.


The fact now is: we fired at Itu-aba, we rammed your ship, so what can PLAF with poor skill pilot can do ??

I'm talk about present


----------



## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> The fact now is: we fired at Itu-aba, we rammed your ship, so what can PLAF with poor skill pilot can do ??
> 
> I'm talk about present



You want to talk about useless thing???

The fact is, the boat you fired at is ROC, dont you realise that??? 

THey fired back at you, so what you want? 




> Taiwan&#8217;s &#8220;newsletter&#8221; said the March 22 and 26, the Vietnamese armed patrol boats, twice close to Itu Aba Island, the Taiwan sea patrol boats expelled were the other firing provocative, The Taiwan side then fired warning shots. *Taiwan defenders of the Pacific Island state of emergency immediately ready returned fire.*
> 
> of
> 
> 
> the
> 
> data for: Coast Guard boats.
> 
> Taiwan &#8220;newsletter, said March 22 and 26, the Vietnamese armed patrol boats, twice close to Itu Aba Island, the Taiwan sea patrol boats expelled, was the other side firing provocative, the Taiwan side is then also fired warning shots. Taiwan defenders of the Pacific Island state of emergency immediately ready returned fire.
> 
> 
> 
> It is understood that, from conflict to shake Taiwan, &#8220;Presidential Palace&#8221; and &#8220;National Security&#8221; senior Taiwan &#8220;National Security Council convened an emergency meeting of an inter-ministerial, the defenders may not use of force, but also through the&#8221; diplomatic &#8220;way to Vietnam to express the most serious protest, not only in Taiwan, and Vietnam for the first time the armed forces head-on collision, leaving the fickle nature of the Spratly Islands conflict, warming to the highest point ever.
> However, Taiwan&#8217;s China Times Weekly also mentioned, suddenly facing the Coast Guard officers and men, ready to take the war was like doomsday, the more soldiers looked sluggish, eyes tears straight round and round in the fortifications at a loss .



Can you show how mighty your Vietnam forces going to withstand the bombardment of our cruise missile and Ballistic missile?

I am talkin about current, ok? You dont try to evade, Coward!


----------



## Battle of Bach Dang River

Beast said:


> I bet even before it takes off, it will be destroyed..
> 
> SY-400 Short-Range Ballistic Missile | Military-Today.com
> 
> WS-2 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com
> 
> DongFeng 15 (CSS-6, M-9) Short-Range Ballistic Missile - SinoDefence.com
> 
> CJ-10 (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> A-100 Multiple Launch Rocket System | Military-Today.com
> 
> Anti-ship ballistic missile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> C-802 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> C-602 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 
> You don't realise China is far far too powerful..
> 
> So what you think the Su-30Mkk is so special since we also have? We don't bother to even order more becos, the tech inside simply cannot match our surging technology..
> 
> Plus, China relationship with Russia has upgraded to strategic level.. We can ask Russia for more info. They will be happily provide all your technical of your version.. Or simply stop any aid to your side when war start..
> 
> Russian is very practical people. Who is powerful , he will side who. This is the reality of the real world.
> 
> Welcome to the real world, kid!



You can say what you want, I'm just a little correction: we are owned Su-30MK2V, is not Su-30MKK.
"Su-30MK2 is a further improvement to SU-30MKK with upgraded avionics and maritime strike capabilities"


----------



## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> You want to talk about useless thing???
> 
> The fact is, the boat you fired at is ROC, dont you realise that???
> 
> THey fired back at you, so what you want?


so , China won't protect Itu-aba if we attack it ?? good, this isl soon will come back to VN 

How about our Marine ship ram your surveillance ship ??where is PLAF with their poor skill pilot ?? hidding in hangar and cry ??


> Can you show how mighty your Vietnam forces going to withstand the bombardment of our cruise missile and Ballistic missile?
> 
> I am talkin about current, ok? You dont try to evade, Coward!


Then fire it now if you have the guts, don't just mouth fighting again and again


----------



## DrSomnath999

Oscar said:


> Well..India would most likely offer EW upgrades to the Su-30's.
> The reason why the Chinese were successful against the VN Su-30's is their own exp with the aircraft and electronics fit.
> If the EW suite of the MKI is transplanted into the VN Su-30's.. the results may not be the same again.


by far the best post i had seen from u .

yes the outcome would have been the opposite


----------



## OrionHunter

> *News from: China's large military forum insider "pupu", this person is very well-informed and reliable news*


*Papu!!!* 










Is that the level of credibility of news sources for the Chinese on this forum? This is ridiculous and beyond hilarious!

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## Nefory

Viva_Viet said:


> what the hell happened with those Su 30. Russia's tech is not good enough ?? Oki, VNAF officer is in big trouble now if it true.They've bought the wrong craft.
> 
> btw: I posted the incident in VN forum already, but no one known yet .


 
Greetings, my friend!
I wouldn't say VN bought the wrong crafts. It's the same story for Iraq during first Gulf War and China in early 90's century. They all thought that their military force could be greatly improved as long as they could bring in some new jets and tank and ships. However, modern warfare turn out to be a whole different story.
Su30 are great aircraft, but like all other ordinary 3rd gen plane(or 4th gen according to the more popular russian standard), it has conventional on board radar and minimal EWS etc.. Without additional supports such as AWACS or at least AEW, electronic warfare aircrafts, and and whole digital command network based on efficient data link integrating the entire fighting forces, Su30s or F15s, they are not very much better than a SU15 or Mig21. I might be bullshitting but without proper additional support, Flankers can be easily detected, jammed, and locked.

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## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> so , China won't protect Itu-aba if we attack it ?? good, this isl soon will come back to VN



Go ahead, you will only provide us an excuse to take you out, meanwhile to directly access the control over the Taiping Island from ROC.


----------



## NiceGuy

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> Go ahead, you will only provide us an excuse to take you out, meanwhile to directly access the control over the Taiping Island from ROC.


You have so many excuse already, problem is: your PLAF suck, and your pilot skill suck too. Enjoy happy time in Scarborough and we will attack Itu-aba when China's situation get worse there


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

NiceGuy said:


> You have so many excuse already, problem is: your PLAF suck, and your pilot skill suck too. Enjoy happy time in Scarborough and we will attack Itu-aba when China's situation get worse there



Anyway, good luck of trying to annex a chunk of land from China.


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

I thought PLA tried to annex a chunk of vietnamese land ?Result was well...u won't find PLA bloggers on it.

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## conan008

VN (SVN)always lose......1974 1979 1988.......XXXX and they never remember it.





Sorry to say that


----------



## BoXilai

OrionHunter said:


> *Papu!!!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the level of credibility of news sources for the Chinese on this forum? This is ridiculous and beyond hilarious!



Lol bro 

Although Chinese aircraft locked us 100 times, I don't scare. For me, an Army without ethics, always lying their friends, use their soldiers for actions, parades as advertisements to satisfy themselves --> That Army cannot long exist on the world map! Modern Chinese and their government has forgotten all morals that &#23380;&#23376; (Kong Zi) taught. They will be destroy!

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## conan008

BoXilai said:


> Lol bro
> 
> Although Chinese aircraft locked us 100 times, I don't scare. For me, an Army without ethics, always lying their friends, use their soldiers for actions, parades as advertisements to satisfy themselves --> That Army cannot long exist on the world map! Modern Chinese and their government has forgotten all morals that &#23380;&#23376; (Kong Zi) taught. They will be destroy!



&#20197;&#24503;&#25253;&#24616;&#20309;&#22914;&#65311;&#8217;&#23376;&#26352;&#65306;&#8216;&#20309;&#20197;&#25253;&#24503;&#65311;&#20197;&#30452;&#25253;&#24616;&#65292;&#20197;&#24503;&#25253;&#24503;&#12290;&#8217;&#8221; &#23380;&#23376;said ,For ingratitude like VN , we should destroy it...

and my man done what &#23380;&#23376; taught to us PerFectly Like bomb the mine ,Factory...in 1979...
Sorry to say that..


----------



## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> I thought PLA tried to annex a chunk of vietnamese land ?Result was well...u won't find PLA bloggers on it.



You mean the most recent one?

Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

7 island capture , 2 Vietnam warship sunk. 70 Vietnamese marine killed. 0 PLA casualties...


----------



## AUSTERLITZ

China claims land from all its neighbours japan,russian far east,philipines,vietnam,india.U see all these people dislike them for this bullish aggressive attitude.



Beast said:


> You mean the most recent one?
> 
> Johnson South Reef Skirmish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> 7 island capture , 2 Vietnam warship sunk. 70 Vietnamese marine killed. 0 PLA casualties...



Oh won't you go back to ur invincible PLA land forces invasions?Sinking tiny viet navy with ur huge navy ,right glory.

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> You have so many excuse already, problem is: your PLAF suck, and your pilot skill suck too. Enjoy happy time in Scarborough and we will attack Itu-aba when China's situation get worse there



Please attack it. I hope ROC navy will join in the battle. Even ROC navy prOves far more superior than Vietnam navy...


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## 45'22'

Sooner or later a full scale war of china with any country is unlikely to happen
they are now in their best of economies,i dont think they will endanger it now


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## Beast

AUSTERLITZ said:


> China claims land from all its neighbours japan,russian far east,philipines,vietnam,india.U see all these people dislike them for this bullish aggressive attitude.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh won't you go back to ur invincible PLA land forces invasions?Sinking tiny viet navy with ur huge navy ,right glory.



Don't try to sound we are invaders. But we will rightly take what is ours. Spratly island belongs to China. 1988 skirmish is the first step. India is still occupying Kashmir,right?


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## conan008

AUSTERLITZ said:


> China claims land from all its neighbours japan,russian far east,philipines,vietnam,india.U see all these people dislike them for this bullish aggressive attitude.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh won't you go back to ur invincible PLA land forces invasions?Sinking tiny viet navy with ur huge navy ,right glory.





YOU need to read a lot my friend. Every Rising nation should face such problems If India plans to be a superpower just like US.


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## 45'22'

Beast said:


> Don't try to sound we are invaders. But we will rightly take what is ours. Spratly island belongs to China. 1988 skirmish is the first step. India is still occupying Kashmir,right?


Plz dont bring Kashmir into it


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## AUSTERLITZ

Everything is chinas,not satisfied with devouring tibet and mongolia u want everything u see?
Encirclement is ur destiny.And u have only urselves and ur govt's vindicative policies to blame.


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## conan008

Never mind, my friend. National Rising should scare someone. I mean VN significantly.


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## BoXilai

conan008 said:


> &#20197;&#24503;&#25253;&#24616;&#20309;&#22914;&#65311;&#23376;&#26352;&#65306;&#20309;&#20197;&#25253;&#24503;&#65311;&#20197;&#30452;&#25253;&#24616;&#65292;&#20197;&#24503;&#25253;&#24503;&#12290; &#23380;&#23376;said ,For ingratitude like VN , we should destroy it...
> 
> and my man done what &#23380;&#23376; taught to us PerFectly Like bomb the mine ,Factory...in 1979...
> Sorry to say that..



&#20320;&#20204;&#27809;&#26377;&#24503;. &#27809;&#26377;&#24503;&#19981;&#33021;&#20811;&#26381;&#22825;&#19979;. &#23427;&#26159;&#36947;&#20041;!


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## Beast

45'22' said:


> Plz dont bring Kashmir into it



Then why are you doing here? If you don't want others talk abt Kashmir , pls stop stirring trouble here.



AUSTERLITZ said:


> Everything is chinas,not satisfied with devouring tibet and mongolia u want everything u see?
> Encirclement is ur destiny.And u have only urselves and ur govt's vindicative policies to blame.



Evil India devote Kashmir. Others country hate you and you only has yrself to blame...

Sri lanka, Bangladesh , Pakistan and Nepal forming a circle agaInst bully India and blame it on yrself.


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## 45'22'

well the topic is Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10,10 times ,u can discuss that
and u can discuss kashmir in kashmir section


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## conan008

BoXilai said:


> &#20320;&#20204;&#27809;&#26377;&#24503;. &#27809;&#26377;&#24503;&#19981;&#33021;&#20811;&#26381;&#22825;&#19979;. &#23427;&#26159;&#36947;&#20041;!




US ........that is an example... and trust me , Superpower has the right .


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## Beast

45'22' said:


> well the topic is Vietnam SU-30 locked by J-10,10 times ,u can discuss that
> and u can discuss kashmir in kashmir section



Ate you scared others of exposing India evil deed? Fancy calling others invader where you yrself is in no better position.


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## 45'22'

it results in flame wars,that is the reason
if u want to talk kashmir,u can continue with that
do u think if u will discuss it anything will happen?
kashmir is for internet fanboys,i dont think u are one of them


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Please attack it. I hope ROC navy will join in the battle. Even ROC navy prOves far more superior than Vietnam navy...


We fired already, and where is your coward PLAF ??why don't those poor skill pilots come to shoot our armed ship ?? still hidding in hangar and cry ??


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## conan008

NiceGuy said:


> We fired already, and where is your coward PLAF ??why don't those poor skill pilots come to shoot our armed ship ?? still hidding in hangar and cry ??



Do you mean that plastic toy and Yelling? My little brother , VN should "xiongqi"!!!!!!!!!!!

But i think India is potential that become a superpower in the future. However ,VN , 0% chance,


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## BoXilai

conan008 said:


> US ........that is an example... and trust me , Superpower has the right .



You're wrong! That cannot be calls "overcome the world".


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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> We fired already, and where is your coward PLAF ??why don't those poor skill pilots come to shoot our armed ship ?? still hidding in hangar and cry ??



Fired and then what , get fired back and achieve nothing? You got no guts to do it again?

Our surveillance ship cut off yr oil exploring ship tracking trail and you do nothing besides protest? Cowards, where is yr Vietnam navy going to fire at us?

Vietnam su30 get locks 10 times by PLAAF J-10.. Yr pilot is the worst kind in the world.

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## conan008

BoXilai said:


> You're wrong! That cannot be calls "overcome the world".



This is a real world my friend.


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## BoXilai

conan008 said:


> This is a real world my friend.



With bad and good people mixed. Ok, I understand but if you say that, do you accept that Chinese you choose the way to become a strong dark force and have not ethics? You want to become the most superpower with more crimes than the US?

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## notsuperstitious

So its just a rumor for silly chinese fanboys. Ya we get that all the time from our neighbors too.


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Fired and then what , get fired back and achieve nothing? You got no guts to do it again?


We tested to see if corward PLAF-PLAN do something or not, and they do Nothing but keep hidding and cry


> Our surveillance ship cut off yr oil exploring ship tracking trail and you do nothing besides protest? Cowards, where is yr Vietnam navy going to fire at us?


We rammed your ship badly, and make PLAN cry again 


> Vietnam su30 get locks 10 times by PLAAF J-10.. Yr pilot is the worst kind in the world.


You can lock bcz you have AWACS with radar range is 300km when our su 30's radar is just 200km, but you can't shoot bcz your air to air missile's range is just 100km. 

PLAN still can't do Nothing but lock and...cry bcz those poor skill pilots can't shoot

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> We tested to see if corward PLAF-PLAN do something or not, and they do Nothing but keep hidding and cry
> We rammed your ship badly, and make PLAN cry again
> 
> You can lock bcz you have AWACS with radar range is 300km when our su 30's radar is just 200km, but you can't shoot bcz your air to air missile's range is just 100km.
> 
> PLAN still can't do Nothing but lock and...cry bcz those poor skill pilots can't shoot



We cut off yr exploring ship wire and all you do it weep? No balls to fired at our surveillance ship Your police even stop the anti-china demonstration. 

BLame your government for so useless and make all vietnamese shameful. 

You admit you has no AWACS, so just cry and watch us lock 300 times again on your Su-30, ok? 

You can't even lock on us and still smile like that? So pathetic

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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> We cut off yr exploring ship wire and all you do it weep? No balls to fired at our surveillance ship Your police even stop the anti-china demonstration.
> 
> BLame your government for so useless and make all vietnamese shameful.


Why must we fire to your ship when it's unamred ??we don't kill unarmed men like evil China. Send some warship and jetfighter if you have the guts ...oh i'm sorry those corward still hidding and cry 


> You admit you has no AWACS, so just cry and watch us lock 300 times again on your Su-30, ok?
> 
> You can't even lock on us and still smile like that? So pathetic


Poor Chinese don't know that US used AWACS in VN war already, and US still lost , that's the reason why we don't buy AWACS now bcz it expensive but quite useless .You can detect enemy, but you can't shoot bcz it's out of misslie's range

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## conan008

NiceGuy said:


> Why must we fire to your ship when it's unamred ??we don't kill unarmed men like evil China. Send some warship and jetfighter if you have the guts ...oh i'm sorry those corward still hidding and cry
> 
> Poor Chinese don't know that US used AWACS in VN war already, and US still lost , that's the reason why we don't buy AWACS now bcz it expensive but quite useless .You can detect enemy, but you can't shoot bcz it's out of misslie's range



VN did not defeat US. US is defeated by jungle. And my littlle brother never give thanks to us for uncountable supply from us. It is called ingratitude. Sorry to say that.


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## Battle of Bach Dang River

The Chinese are obsessed to Vietnam Su-30MK2V, which has "maritime strike capabilities".
And the story "Vietnam SU-30 is locked by J-10, 10 times" was created from that obsession....

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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> Why must we fire to your ship when it's unamred ??we don't kill unarmed men like evil China. Send some warship and jetfighter if you have the guts ...oh i'm sorry those corward still hidding and cry
> 
> Poor Chinese don't know that US used AWACS in VN war already, and US still lost , that's the reason why we don't buy AWACS now bcz it expensive but quite useless .You can detect enemy, but you can't shoot bcz it's out of misslie's range



Coward don't even dare to take on surveilance ship and talk big about. Why not you send your warplane to try retake your 7 island in Spratly, No balls?? 

AWACS is useless? Why buy Su-30?  Since it cant even lock on our jet, not even mention about shooting it down..
Just admit you are poor instead of calling AWACS is useless and expensive. We will not laugh at Vietnam as poor little brother. Do you need some loan? If you start crying and begging at us, maybe we can consider some soft loan to you 



Battle of Bach Dang River said:


> The Chinese are obsessed to Vietnam Su-30MK2V, which has "maritime strike capabilities".
> And the story "Vietnam SU-30 is locked by J-10, 10 times" was created from that obsession....



We are not obsessed, it just that you can't accept reality.. 

The military gap between PLA and Vietnam armed forces is so big. Just look at your defense budget comparison alone will do. Its heaven and earth gap.


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> Coward don't even dare to take on surveilance ship and talk big about. Why not you send your warplane to try retake your 7 island in Spratly, No balls??
> .


we have lots of missile, not lots of warship and jetfighter, so we can't take 7 shoals back now. Poor Chinese brag about their Air force when in fact PLAF suck and their pilots skill suck too. only hide in hangar and cry when we rammed China ship and fired at Itu-aba 


> AWACS is useless? Why buy Su-30? Since it cant even lock on our jet, not even mention about shooting it down..
> Just admit you are poor instead of calling AWACS is useless and expensive. We will not laugh at Vietnam as poor little brother. Do you need some loan? If you start crying and begging at us, maybe we can consider some soft loan to you



AWACS is useless and it is proved by VN war, only idiot and inexperience Chinese like you don't know that. we buy Su-30 bcz we know cheap China AWACS can't guide poor skill China pilot to shoot down our Su-30


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## Beast

NiceGuy said:


> we have lots of missile, not lots of warship and jetfighter, so we can't take 7 shoals back now. Poor Chinese brag about their Air force when in fact PLAF suck and their pilots skill suck too. only hide in hangar and cry when we rammed China ship and fired at Itu-aba
> 
> 
> AWACS is useless and it is proved by VN war, only idiot and inexperience Chinese like you don't know that. we buy Su-30 bcz we know cheap China AWACS can't guide poor skill China pilot to shoot down our Su-30



From yr reply, I can sense yr desperation and despair... Poor you, not being born as a Chinese.. Seeing the Chinese getting stronger, having more wealthy and fancy weapon will make anybody red eye,right? 

I will too feel frustrated if I am a vietnamese now, why Vietnam cannot even be as strong and rich like China. 

The only way to get around this is too suffer the sour grape sydromme.. That is to deny and bash all the good times,U can't afford.... Try to act U got lots of missiles and fighter and planes to make itself superior in its dream 

Only a idiot will claim AWACS is redundant in its armed forces.. A poor country like Vietnam, I doubt your pilot even got enough fly time... So only by dreaming about a rich country like CHina with loads of cash with them will spend lesser on their pilots for training..

So everybody will know who's pilot is more lousy.. 

I provide facts which you can't win... That you started this load of rubbish to refute the truth? Pathetic


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## NiceGuy

Beast said:


> From yr reply, I can sense yr desperation and despair... Poor you, not being born as a Chinese.. Seeing the Chinese getting stronger, having more wealthy and fancy weapon will make anybody red eye,right?
> 
> I will too feel frustrated if I am a vietnamese now, why Vietnam cannot even be as strong and rich like China.
> 
> The only way to get around this is too suffer the sour grape sydromme.. That is to deny and bash all the good times,U can't afford.... Try to act U got lots of missiles and fighter and planes to make itself superior in its dream
> 
> Only a idiot will claim AWACS is redundant in its armed forces.. A poor country like Vietnam, I doubt your pilot even got enough fly time... So only by dreaming about a rich country like CHina with loads of cash with them will spend lesser on their pilots for training..
> 
> So everybody will know who's pilot is more lousy..
> 
> I provide facts which you can't win... That you started this load of rubbish to refute the truth? Pathetic


, so you finally have Nothing else to debate , just like your idiot general after losing face in 1979 he tried to brag that: " Mission complete, so China withdraw now !" 

Poor you, Oki, keep bragging, but the Truth still is:
1. VN rammed China's ship , fired at Itu-aba, corward PLAF with those poor skill pilot only can sit and watch.

2. Inexperience and idiot Chinese brag about AWACS , but they simply never see how it work in Real combat. The truth is: AWACS is expensive and useless proved by VN war .


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## S. Martin

lawxx said:


> , Hi, brother, do not ignore him, and he said is completely useless, he will never understand and comprehend. Direct ignore his presence.


Personnel attack is not the spirit of this military forum. Please let him be.


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## BoQ77

Anyone with a little of geography could help to explain how this event happened? in 2011
South Vietnam AF ? J10 ?
fiction novel?


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## XiaoYaoZi

BoQ77 said:


> Anyone with a little of geography could help to explain how this event happened? in 2011
> South Vietnam AF ? J10 ?
> fiction novel?


If you wish, you can think it as fiction of novel. That is your affair.

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## kungfugymnast

BoQ77 said:


> Anyone with a little of geography could help to explain how this event happened? in 2011
> South Vietnam AF ? J10 ?
> fiction novel?



If the j10 is based in china controlled territory of spratlys island, it is possible for j10 to reach there. This is why Spratlys islands are so strategic over South China Sea apart from rich of resources.


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## BoQ77

kungfugymnast said:


> If the j10 is based in china controlled territory of spratlys island, it is possible for j10 to reach there. This is why Spratlys islands are so strategic over South China Sea apart from rich of resources.



The thread talked about an event in 2011 ( I guess from fiction novel in China ). I don't want to derail. The guy at last concluded J-10 better than Su-30 ( in 2011 )


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## kungfugymnast

BoQ77 said:


> The thread talked about an event in 2011 ( I guess from fiction novel in China ). I don't want to derail. The guy at last concluded J-10 better than Su-30 ( in 2011 )



That is like saying the f16 better than f15. But when comes to air to air where both carrying same missiles & guns, it depends on radar strength to assist the missile tracking its target, pilot's skill, early warning avionics capability and in dogfight maneuvering capability.j10 vs su30, both have to depend on luck.

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## BoQ77

kungfugymnast said:


> That is like saying the f16 better than f15. But when comes to air to air where both carrying same missiles & guns, it depends on radar strength to assist the missile tracking its target, pilot's skill, early warning avionics capability and in dogfight maneuvering capability.j10 vs su30, both have to depend on luck.



Story described an exercise that I think have very little chance to happen. so i guess it is like fiction novel
. no one in Vietnam acknowledged this. and nothing afterward support that story.
look at the title of thread pls

look at such a story, we wonder is it real or not, before go into details and make conclusion.
I see no chance a J10 ever had an exercise in South Vietnam with Su 30.
It is a fake report.

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## kungfugymnast

BoQ77 said:


> Story described an exercise that I think have very little chance to happen. so i guess it is like fiction novel
> . no one in Vietnam acknowledged this. and nothing afterward support that story.
> look at the title of thread pls
> 
> look at such a story, we wonder is it real or not, before go into details and make conclusion.
> I see no chance a J10 ever had an exercise in South Vietnam with Su 30.
> It is a fake report.



Never heard of any exercise with vietnam before. Vietnamese Su30. Vietnam su30mk2 is newer variant, it should have TVC and maneuverability should be good at dogfight


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## BoQ77

kungfugymnast said:


> Never heard of any exercise with vietnam before. Vietnamese Su30. Vietnam su30mk2 is newer variant, it should have TVC and maneuverability should be good at dogfight



location of Bien Hoa AB, South of Vietnam







The report come after the news Vietnam order 20 Su-30MK2, 4 first Su-30MK2 delivered.
And the report claimed China J-10 immediately has exercise with formation of 4x Vietnam Su-30MK2 in South Vietnam ? And .... read again the thread title.
Make no sense.

越南增购20架苏-30MK2战机 首批4架已交付_军事频道_凤凰网


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## antonius123

BoQ77 said:


> location of Bien Hoa AB, South of Vietnam
> 
> View attachment 260245
> 
> 
> The report come after the news Vietnam order 20 Su-30MK2, 4 first Su-30MK2 delivered.
> And the report claimed China J-10 immediately has exercise with formation of 4x Vietnam Su-30MK2 in South Vietnam ? And .... read again the thread title.
> Make no sense.
> 
> 越南增购20架苏-30MK2战机 首批4架已交付_军事频道_凤凰网




You are so stubborn or ignorant.

Been explained to you that the su30MK2 was not coming from south but from north.

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## BoQ77

Until now, there's no Su-30 in the Northern of Vietnam
In 2011, only Southern 
2012, more in Middle but always out of J-10 ( A?) range.

I think there's no chance for that fantasy exercise, but I respect the oppose idea, so I want to hear any explanation that make sense.


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