# Indian General praises Colonel Sher Khan for his bravery



## Sulman Badshah

*Indian General praises Colonel Sher Khan for his bravery*
August 01, 2016, 4:23 pm
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*LAHORE*: Indian Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri on Monday praised Capt Karnail Sher Khan of Pakistan Army who was martyred during Kargil war for his bravery.

Capt Karnail Sher Khan of the Pakistan Army was someone whose bravery was acknowledged by his enemy, the Indian side as well during the Kargil war. 15 years on, Capt Karnail Sher Khan remains a hero.

Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri who led the Indian army during the Kargil war 15 years ago said that Capt Karnail Sher Khan had attacked the Indian forces at the Tiger Hill. It was a surprise for the Indian side but one that led to the death of Khan.

Mohinder Puri accepted that the bravery of Sher Khan and the way he led the operation was exemplary.

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## nadeemkhan110

not just SHER KHAN all of our army jawans are brave and well trained

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## Super Falcon

nadeemkhan110 said:


> not just SHER KHAN all of our army jawans are brave and well trained


Time to use these skills against economy terrorists corrupt politicians india won't harm us but these leeches do

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## Joe Shearer

Sulman Badshah said:


> *Indian General praises Colonel Sher Khan for his bravery*
> August 01, 2016, 4:23 pm
> SHARE :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *INP*
> inShare
> 
> 
> *LAHORE*: Indian Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri on Monday praised Colonel Sher Khan of Pakistan Army who was martyred during Kargil war for his bravery.
> 
> Colonel Sher Khan of the Pakistan Army was someone whose bravery was acknowledged by his enemy, the Indian side as well during the Kargil war. 15 years on, Captain Sher Khan remains a hero.
> 
> Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri who led the Indian army during the Kargil war 15 years ago said that Colonel Sher Khan had attacked the Indian forces at the Tiger Hill. It was a surprise for the Indian side but one that led to the death of Khan.
> 
> Mohinder Puri accepted that the bravery of Sher Khan and the way he led the operation was exemplary.



I would like to point out that Captain Karnail Sher Khan got his award ON THE SPECIFIC REFERENCE MADE BY THE INDIAN ARMY TO THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN THE PAKISTAN ARMY. 

There were no survivors, no one to testify to his gallantry. 

Please look it up. 

At one time I had kept count. There were 8 occasions when Pakistani soldiers got awards based on Indian Army reports to the PA. 

My facts gathering may not be very good, but I do not know of a single instance of the reverse happening.

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## nair

Joe Shearer said:


> My facts gathering may not be very good, but I do not know of a single instance of the reverse happening



That speaks a lot.....

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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> My facts gathering may not be very good, but I do not know of a single instance of the reverse happening.



We won ; they lost ; why do you expect them to commend our soldiers 

And what would their commendation letter look like 

" Major Vikram Batra or Captain Manoj Pandey drove us away from Tololing ./ Tiger Hill"

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## Joe Shearer

nair said:


> That speaks a lot.....



This is one thing on which I tend to get hot under the collar. Except for that bizarre decapitation incident, I don't know of the IA behaving in an unchivalrous or ungenerous way. I really feel bad about this.

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## Delnavaz B

Sulman Badshah said:


> *Indian General praises Colonel Sher Khan for his bravery*
> August 01, 2016, 4:23 pm
> SHARE :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *INP*
> inShare
> 
> 
> *LAHORE*: Indian Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri on Monday praised Colonel Sher Khan of Pakistan Army who was martyred during Kargil war for his bravery.
> 
> Colonel Sher Khan of the Pakistan Army was someone whose bravery was acknowledged by his enemy, the Indian side as well during the Kargil war. 15 years on, Captain Sher Khan remains a hero.
> 
> Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri who led the Indian army during the Kargil war 15 years ago said that Colonel Sher Khan had attacked the Indian forces at the Tiger Hill. It was a surprise for the Indian side but one that led to the death of Khan.
> 
> Mohinder Puri accepted that the bravery of Sher Khan and the way he led the operation was exemplary.


Dear Bro Kindly edit Capt Karnal Sher Khan's name. Karnal his name not the rank anyways nice share.

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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> This is one thing on which I tend to get hot under the collar. Except for that bizarre decapitation incident, I don't know of the IA behaving in an unchivalrous or ungenerous way. I really feel bad about this.



Times have changed ; the bitterness and hatred has only increased


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## Omega007

Joe Shearer said:


> I would like to point out that Captain Karnail Sher Khan got his award ON THE SPECIFIC REFERENCE MADE BY THE INDIAN ARMY TO THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN THE PAKISTAN ARMY.
> 
> There were no survivors, no one to testify to his gallantry.
> 
> Please look it up.
> 
> At one time I had kept count. There were 8 occasions when Pakistani soldiers got awards based on Indian Army reports to the PA.
> 
> My facts gathering may not be very good, but I do not know of a single instance of the reverse happening.



Well tbh, I would be surprised if such a thing ever happens.



Joe Shearer said:


> This is one thing on which I tend to get hot under the collar. Except for that bizarre decapitation incident, I don't know of the IA behaving in an unchivalrous or ungenerous way. I really feel bad about this.


Which decapitation incident sir??


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## Joe Shearer

Omega007 said:


> Well tbh, I would be surprised if such a thing ever happens.
> 
> 
> Which decapitation incident sir??



I'd rather not talk about it on a Pakistani forum. It's embarrassing.

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## Stephen Cohen

Omega007 said:


> Which decapitation incident sir??



Indian Army raid in Pakistani village to avenge Saurabh Kalia AFTER Kargil was over

@Omega007

http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusive-dirty-war-on-loc-preceded-deadly-poonch-ambush-1014081.html

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ars-of-bloodletting-at-loc/article4358199.ece
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Fact is that Man Mohan Singh tied the hands of Indian Army 

That is why Pakistan Army carried out Two cross border raids during his time

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> This is one thing on which I tend to get hot under the collar. Except for that bizarre decapitation incident, I don't know of the IA behaving in an unchivalrous or ungenerous way. I really feel bad about this.



There have been many incidents where soldiers were severly tortured and shot point blank by Indian army...

The incident you are referring to isn't the only one..

Even in previous wars indians troops did that.. Be it shooting PA officer on train (POW transportation) 71 or during shooting and burning soldiers who incidentally got lost and entered Indian territory during peace time.

Or even POWs like Mahfuz Hussain released after over 4 decades .. Broken..



Stephen Cohen said:


> Indian Army raid in Pakistani village to avenge Saurabh Kalia AFTER Kargil was over
> 
> @Omega007
> 
> http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusive-dirty-war-on-loc-preceded-deadly-poonch-ambush-1014081.html
> 
> http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...ars-of-bloodletting-at-loc/article4358199.ece



And killing dozens of villagers in cold blood .. Brave indeed.

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## Stephen Cohen

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> And killing dozens of villagers in cold blood .. Brave indeed.



On the LOC nobody is innocent 

It is Kill or get killed

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Stephen Cohen said:


> On the LOC nobody is innocent
> 
> It is Kill or get killed



Only idiots think that way.

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## Omega007

Joe Shearer said:


> I'd rather not talk about it on a Pakistani forum. It's embarrassing.



I can understand that, but could you please mention the year of that incident??Damn, I can't believe our soldiers could decapitate folks in cold blood!!You sure it wasn't in the heat of a battle, by some Gurkha units or Nagas may be??


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## Stephen Cohen

Omega007 said:


> I can understand that, but could you please mention the year of that incident??Damn, I can't believe our soldiers could decapitate folks in cold blood!!You sure it wasn't in the heat of a battle, by some Gurkha units or Nagas may be??



You did nt read my links



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Only idiots think that way.



You want to wish away and run away from Reality ; be my guest


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## Omega007

Stephen Cohen said:


> You did nt read my links


Ok, am reading em now.


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## Thomas M

Sulman Badshah said:


> *Indian General praises Colonel Sher Khan for his bravery*
> August 01, 2016, 4:23 pm
> SHARE :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *INP*
> inShare
> 
> 
> *LAHORE*: Indian Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri on Monday praised Colonel Sher Khan of Pakistan Army who was martyred during Kargil war for his bravery.
> 
> Colonel Sher Khan of the Pakistan Army was someone whose bravery was acknowledged by his enemy, the Indian side as well during the Kargil war. 15 years on, Captain Sher Khan remains a hero.
> 
> Lieutenant General Mohinder Puri who led the Indian army during the Kargil war 15 years ago said that Colonel Sher Khan had attacked the Indian forces at the Tiger Hill. It was a surprise for the Indian side but one that led to the death of Khan.
> 
> Mohinder Puri accepted that the bravery of Sher Khan and the way he led the operation was exemplary.




Was he a Colonel or Captain ?? He is mentioned as both in this article. Moreover the image in the thread is that of our Ex-Chief General Bikram Singh I guess.

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## Delnavaz B

Thomas M said:


> Was he a Colonel or Captain ?? He is mentioned as both in this article. Moreover the image in the thread is that of our Ex-Chief General Bikram Singh I guess.


He was Captain and his name is Karnial Sher Khan.

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## Bharat Muslim

Stephen Cohen said:


> Times have changed ; the bitterness and hatred has only increased


You have only positive things to say about Indian army. That raises suspicion about how authentic your posts are. Perhaps you are being misled by media?

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## Stephen Cohen

Bharat Muslim said:


> You have only positive things to say about Indian army. That raises suspicion about how authentic your post are. Perhaps you are being misled by media?



What is your problem exactly

@Bharat Muslim 

Go and LIVE ON the LOC for One day and see how difficult the conditions are

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## John Reese

Stephen Cohen said:


> We won ; they lost ; why do you expect them to commend our soldiers
> 
> And what would their commendation letter look like
> 
> " Major Vikram Batra or Captain Manoj Pandey drove us away from Tololing ./ Tiger Hill"



Correction tololing captured by Rajputana rifles 


Khalubar OP is Gurkha regiment


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## Stephen Cohen

John Reese said:


> Correction tololing captured by Rajputana rifles
> 
> 
> Khalubar OP is Gurkha regiment



That was just a Metaphor 

Imagine Pakistan Army written a commendation letter for Major Vikram Batra 
or Captain Manoj Pandey


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## nair

Joe Shearer said:


> This is one thing on which I tend to get hot under the collar. Except for that bizarre *decapitation incident*, I don't know of the IA behaving in an unchivalrous or ungenerous way. I really feel bad about this.



I think it was not only the case few more..... But then as you rightly said, this is not the place to discuss it, and in this game no one is saint

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## Bharat Muslim

Stephen Cohen said:


> What is your problem exactly
> 
> @Bharat Muslim
> 
> Go and LIVE ON the LOC for One day and see how difficult the conditions are


I am getting acquainted with the ways of the world. I feel disillusioned.

For instance you make no mention of the desertion during Kargil war. You make no mention of the rapes committed by Indian soldiers.


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## Stephen Cohen

Bharat Muslim said:


> For instance you make no mention of the desertion during Kargil war. You make no mention of the rapes committed by Indian soldiers.



What desertion by the Indian soldiers ; please elaborate



John Reese said:


> If heard what digendra kumar said
> On his narrative after 11 men
> Ghatak Force attack on Ridge of tololing



Please elaborate


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Stephen Cohen said:


> That was just a Metaphor
> 
> Imagine Pakistan Army written a commendation letter for Major Vikram Batra
> or Captain Manoj Pandey



Captain Karnal Sher Khan wasn't martyred on our side .. He had descended down to Indian base camp chasing your troops.. The only witness of his valour were your own troops..

Captain was very famous for his bravery and valour during the campaign.. 

His body was lifted from Delhi and received at CKL AB..

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## Alphacharlie

Respects to the Warrior & his Values.

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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> There have been many incidents where soldiers were severly tortured and shot point blank by Indian army...
> 
> The incident you are referring to isn't the only one..
> 
> Even in previous wars indians troops did that.. Be it shooting PA officer on train (POW transportation) 71 or during shooting and burning soldiers who incidentally got lost and entered Indian territory during peace time.
> 
> Or even POWs like Mahfuz Hussain released after over 4 decades .. Broken..
> 
> And killing dozens of villagers in cold blood .. Brave indeed.



I would really like to know more facts about these alleged incidents. Not that your word is not good enough, but I would like to hear when and how.

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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> On the LOC nobody is innocent
> 
> It is Kill or get killed



Still think war mongering is not getting the better of your society?? @Joe Shearer


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## Joe Shearer

Omega007 said:


> I can understand that, but could you please mention the year of that incident??Damn, I can't believe our soldiers could decapitate folks in cold blood!!You sure it wasn't in the heat of a battle, by some Gurkha units or Nagas may be??



It wasn't in cold blood. It was a corpse. Bad enough. Please can we drop this bloody thing?

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## Stephen Cohen

Areesh said:


> Still think war mongering is not getting the better of your society?? @Joe Shearer



On LOC there is always a situation of No war No peace

It has always been like that ; why are you so naive

Intermittent firing goes on all the time 


We shoot infiltrators ; we loose our soldiers 

And sometimes things escalate


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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> On LOC there is always a situation of No war No peace
> 
> It has always been like that ; why are you so naive



I am not naive. I just believe that killing villagers is nothing to be proud of. 

Or else I have many incidents from LOC that can make you uncomfortable. and none of them involve villagers from your side.


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## Joe Shearer

Areesh said:


> Still think war mongering is not getting the better of your society?? @Joe Shearer



Emphatically.

Look at the conduct of our soldiers and their leadership.



Areesh said:


> I am not naive. I just believe that killing villagers is nothing to be proud of.



Excuse me? They may have died in cross-border shelling. Are you implying they were deliberately targetted and killed?


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## Stephen Cohen

Areesh said:


> I am not naive. I just believe that killing villagers is nothing to be proud of.



What about killing of our villagers ; who were killed first by Your people
simply because they were Hindus and SIkhs

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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> What about killing of our villagers ; who were killed first by Your people
> simply because they were Hindus and SIkhs



I don't like that either. Killing civilians is nothing to be proud of. Hindus, sikhs, muslims whoever they are



Joe Shearer said:


> Excuse me? They may have died in cross-border shelling. Are you implying they were deliberately targetted and killed?



Yes. There are incidents where Indian troops crossed LOC to kill civilians. Has happened in 90's several times.



Joe Shearer said:


> Emphatically.
> 
> Look at the conduct of our soldiers and their leadership.



Their conduct is poor as well. You yourself was mentioning an incident that you don't want to discuss here.


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## Stephen Cohen

Areesh said:


> I don't like that either. Killing civilians is nothing to be proud of. Hindus, sikhs, muslims whoever they are



You did it first ; we only replied 

You can say that those who did it in India were Non state actors 

But that does nt matter ; Our reply will be given and was given 
by our UNIFORMED soldiers

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> I would really like to know more facts about these alleged incidents. Not that your word is not good enough, but I would like to hear when and how.



Which one .. The beheading incident was actually admitted by a 3 star ranking Indian officer on barkha dutts show.


The soldier who was tortured and shot point blank was a Ranger.,, Pics of his remains were shown to international media and a report was sent to the UN .. (I can post a BBC link from 2002).

http://www.dawn.com/news/44414/pakistan-to-lodge-protest-with-un-soldier

https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-seeks-probe-into-lance-naiks-torture-killing.228732/



The Azad Kashmir Incident was also massively covered .. In ended up with Ilyas Kashmiri and the raid on Indian troops and the notorious incident where they paraded heads of Indian soldiers involved in the Kashmir incident.


The POW was sepoy Maqbool Hussain was released in 2008 -- he was released as a good will gesture when both countries released fishermen.. He had no memory,his tongue was cut,tortured and lost his mental abilities... Remembering only his PA number;







He was captured in 65

https://www.thenewstribe.com/2015/09/06/sepoy-maqbool-hussain-a-symbol-of-bravery-courage/


https://defence.pk/threads/sipahi-maqbool-hussain.230010/



1200 POWs from 71 are still missing -;
http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...a-still-has-1200-Pakistani-POWS-from-1971-war


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## Joe Shearer

Bharat Muslim said:


> You have only positive things to say about Indian army. That raises suspicion about how authentic your posts are. Perhaps you are being misled by media?



Very strange remark.

Why should the normal comment not be positive about the Indian Army?

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## Stephen Cohen

@Areesh 

There is No need to get emotional ;

The way Tension is building up on the LOC ---
--- Hafiz saeed and Hizbul Mujahideen are Rousing passions

we will see a conflict on the LOC very soon


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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> You did it first ; we only replied


Cut me this cr@p kid.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

The raid by Indian forces happened in 2000... Ranjot Massacre;

@Jonah Arthur. 


In February 2000, The Indian Special forces known as "Black Cat" attacked Aazad Kashmir in the area of Lanjoot, they took control of a Pakistani village and spent a whole night there and martyred 14 innocent people. The Indian forces beheaded three Muslim Girls that night because of there sheer hatred for Muslims, and took 2 girls with them the next day when they retreated. In the following 24 hours Indian forces beheaded our 2 Muslim sisters and threw their heads near The check post of Pakistan Army.
Victims included children aged 2 years to 10 years, women aged 20 to 80, Men aged 27 to 95
View attachment 238107
View attachment 238108
View attachment 238107
View attachment 238109

I have other pictures but according to rules and regulations graphic pictures are not allowed.

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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Which one .. The beheading incident was actually admitted by a 3 star ranking Indian officer on barkha dutts show.
> 
> 
> The soldier who was tortured and shot point blank was a Ranger.,, Pics of his remains were shown to international media and a report was sent to the UN .. (I can post a BBC link from 2002).
> 
> http://www.dawn.com/news/44414/pakistan-to-lodge-protest-with-un-soldier
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-seeks-probe-into-lance-naiks-torture-killing.228732/
> 
> 
> 
> The Azad Kashmir Incident was also massively covered .. In ended up with Ilyas Kashmiri and the raid on Indian troops and the notorious incident where they paraded heads of Indian soldiers involved in the Kashmir incident.
> 
> 
> The POW was sepoy Maqbool Hussain was released in 2008 -- he was released as a good will gesture when both countries released fishermen.. He had no memory,his tongue was cut,tortured and lost his mental abilities... Remembering only his PA number;
> 
> View attachment 322422
> 
> 
> He was captured in 65
> 
> https://www.thenewstribe.com/2015/09/06/sepoy-maqbool-hussain-a-symbol-of-bravery-courage/
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/sipahi-maqbool-hussain.230010/
> 
> 
> 
> 1200 POWs from 71 are still missing -;
> http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/s...a-still-has-1200-Pakistani-POWS-from-1971-war




I appreciate your detailed reply.

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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> @Areesh
> 
> There is No need to get emotional ;
> 
> The way Tension is building up on the LOC ---
> --- Hafiz saeed and Hizbul Mujahideen are Rousing passions
> 
> we will see a conflict on the LOC very soon



If you want a conflict. You would get it. It is very simple you know. 

The choice is yours. Not ours.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

*MUZAFFARABAD, Feb 25: In yet another worst incident of cross-border terrorism, Indian commandos sneaked into a southern village of Azad Kashmir, located along the Line of Control, and massacred 14 persons, including women and children, officials confirmed on Friday.

The gory incident occurred at about 12 o'clock on Thursday night in Lanjot village of the Nakyal sector, located barely 150 yards off the Line of Control in the Kotli district. Eleven people died on the spot and five others were critically wounded, three of whom succumbed to their wounds in the hospital, Sheikh Tahir Qayyum, deputy inspector-general of the AJK police, told Dawn here.

The dead, aged from two to 90 years, included six women, three men and five children. Only two men survived.* All the victims, belonging to the Sudhan tribe, were related to each other and had gathered in the house of Mohammad Murtaza to attend a Quran Khwani there.

There was heavy shelling from across the LoC when the Indians carried out the act. The firing was started by the Indians to engage the Pakistan army, whose post is located some 400 metres away from the scene of the incident. Besides, there was loadshedding at that time.

"It is an open act of savagery and terrorism. They (the Indians) crossed the LoC and brutally murdered the innocent and unarmed civilians with guns and bayonets," the DIG said, adding that three of the victims, including a couple, were decapitated and the hands of another man had been chopped off the shoulders by the attackers.

*Those who died on the spot were identified as Mohammad Alam, 90, son of Mir Wali; Mohammad Murtaza, 29, son of Abdul Hameed; Kali Begum, 27, wife of Mohammad Murtaza; Sarwar Begum, 55, wife of Abdul Hameed; Faiza Begum, 30, daughter of Abdul Hameed; Gulzar Begum, 60, widow of Fateh Sher; Khurshid Begum, 30, wife of Niaz Akhtar; Ammad Niaz, 2, son of Niaz Akhtar; Perveen Akhtar, 30, wife of Mohammad Younas; Sehar Younas, 7, daughter of Mohammad Younas; Moulvi Faiz, 60, son of Said Mohammad.

Five others, Mohammad Younas, 40, son of Lal Khan; Mohammad Ishtiaq, 24, son of Mohammad Hussain; Farhad Niaz, 10, son of Niaz Akhtar; Moula Bux, 4, son of Mohammad Younas; Mohammad Ikhlaq, 6, son of Mohammad Hussain; were critically wounded, with deep dagger wounds in their skulls. They were taken to the district headquarters hospital, Kotli. However, Farhad, Moula Bux and Ikhlaq died on way from wounds in the hospital while Ishtiaq was removed to the PIMS in Islamabad.*

Mohammad Younas told local reporters in the DHQ hospital in Kotli that fierce shelling from across the LoC preceded the assault by the Indians. Three shells had landed close to the house they were in, he said and added that the attackers, who numbered about 15 and were in army dress, entered the house shooting all the way. They started slaughtering the inmates with bayonets and guns. I tried to escape but was shot at, said Younas, whose wife and 7-year-old daughter were among the dead.

Kotli deputy commissioner Abu Talib Kazmi told this correspondent that there was no let-up in enemy shelling due to which burials could not be held till afternoon*. The bodies were removed with much difficulty to the Dabsi village where they were laid on charpoys. Funeral prayers were held in that area late afternoon. Moving scenes were witnessed on the occasion with people of all ages crying and cursing the killers.

There was a total shutdown in the Kotli city, Nakyal and Tatta Pani towns on Friday to mourn the tragedy. Thousands of people staged demonstrations after Friday prayers and chanted anti-India slogans. Sources said people were planning to hold demos on Saturday as well. "There is a state of lamentation here. Everybody is remonstrating the barbarism and cowardice of the Indian forces," an old resident of Kotli told Dawn on telephone.*

In Muzaffarabad, a demonstration, led by senior minister Sahibzada Mohammad Ishaq Zafar, was also held. The demonstrators marched through streets of the city and finally stopped at Bank Road where they were addressed by the senior minister and others who condemned the Indian attack. Later, they went to the UN military observers' office and delivered a protest note.

The senior minister announced a two-day mourning in Azad Kashmir with holiday on Saturday. The national flag of AJK would fly at half-mast, he said. *Demonstrations were also held in many other towns of Azad Kashmir, including Rawalakot, Abbaspur and Mirpur. In 1998, 21 people were gunned down by the Indian commandos in the Bandala Seri village of the southern Bhimbher district of Azad Kashmir on the night of April 26.

Also, early this year on Jan 26, three women and an infant were found dead in an isolated house located close to the LoC in the forward Kahuta sector in the Bagh district. The head of the family was missing and the law enforcement agencies believed that the act was carried out by the Indians.*


@Joe Shearer

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## Stephen Cohen

Areesh said:


> If you want a conflict. You would get it. It is very simple you know.
> 
> The choice is yours. Not ours.



You always start it ; we only reply -- but yes we do use disproportionate force
for retaliation

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## Joe Shearer

Areesh said:


> I don't like that either. Killing civilians is nothing to be proud of. Hindus, sikhs, muslims whoever they are
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. There are incidents where Indian troops crossed LOC to kill civilians. Has happened in 90's several times.



I am unaware of any attempt to kill civilians, and about the possible motive for such an act. @DESERT FIGHTER has mentioned an incident, and I would certainly like to gather more details about it; at the moment, I acknowledge his information, without either accepting or denying it.



> Their conduct is poor as well. You yourself was mentioning an incident that you don't want to discuss here.



I don't think so. That was one single, solitary incident. Nobody that I know, no report that I have read, no complaint from Pakistan mentions this. Aggressive action from Pakistan's side has been reported whenever it happened.

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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> You always start it ; we only reply



That's what every fanboy thinks.

It is you who is saying conflict is coming. Not me. We would respond back. And we would respond good.



Joe Shearer said:


> I am unaware of any attempt to kill civilians, and about the possible motive for such an act. @DESERT FIGHTER has mentioned an incident, and I would certainly like to gather more details about it; at the moment, I acknowledge his information, without either accepting or denying it.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. That was one single, solitary incident. Nobody that I know, no report that I have read, no complaint from Pakistan mentions this. Aggressive action from Pakistan's side has been reported whenever it happened.



I can say you are better on propaganda than us. I acknowledge that. Or else you have done a lot of sh!t which we fail to propagate.

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## Joe Shearer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> *MUZAFFARABAD, Feb 25: In yet another worst incident of cross-border terrorism, Indian commandos sneaked into a southern village of Azad Kashmir, located along the Line of Control, and massacred 14 persons, including women and children, officials confirmed on Friday.
> 
> The gory incident occurred at about 12 o'clock on Thursday night in Lanjot village of the Nakyal sector, located barely 150 yards off the Line of Control in the Kotli district. Eleven people died on the spot and five others were critically wounded, three of whom succumbed to their wounds in the hospital, Sheikh Tahir Qayyum, deputy inspector-general of the AJK police, told Dawn here.
> 
> The dead, aged from two to 90 years, included six women, three men and five children. Only two men survived.* All the victims, belonging to the Sudhan tribe, were related to each other and had gathered in the house of Mohammad Murtaza to attend a Quran Khwani there.
> 
> There was heavy shelling from across the LoC when the Indians carried out the act. The firing was started by the Indians to engage the Pakistan army, whose post is located some 400 metres away from the scene of the incident. Besides, there was loadshedding at that time.
> 
> "It is an open act of savagery and terrorism. They (the Indians) crossed the LoC and brutally murdered the innocent and unarmed civilians with guns and bayonets," the DIG said, adding that three of the victims, including a couple, were decapitated and the hands of another man had been chopped off the shoulders by the attackers.
> 
> *Those who died on the spot were identified as Mohammad Alam, 90, son of Mir Wali; Mohammad Murtaza, 29, son of Abdul Hameed; Kali Begum, 27, wife of Mohammad Murtaza; Sarwar Begum, 55, wife of Abdul Hameed; Faiza Begum, 30, daughter of Abdul Hameed; Gulzar Begum, 60, widow of Fateh Sher; Khurshid Begum, 30, wife of Niaz Akhtar; Ammad Niaz, 2, son of Niaz Akhtar; Perveen Akhtar, 30, wife of Mohammad Younas; Sehar Younas, 7, daughter of Mohammad Younas; Moulvi Faiz, 60, son of Said Mohammad.
> 
> Five others, Mohammad Younas, 40, son of Lal Khan; Mohammad Ishtiaq, 24, son of Mohammad Hussain; Farhad Niaz, 10, son of Niaz Akhtar; Moula Bux, 4, son of Mohammad Younas; Mohammad Ikhlaq, 6, son of Mohammad Hussain; were critically wounded, with deep dagger wounds in their skulls. They were taken to the district headquarters hospital, Kotli. However, Farhad, Moula Bux and Ikhlaq died on way from wounds in the hospital while Ishtiaq was removed to the PIMS in Islamabad.*
> 
> Mohammad Younas told local reporters in the DHQ hospital in Kotli that fierce shelling from across the LoC preceded the assault by the Indians. Three shells had landed close to the house they were in, he said and added that the attackers, who numbered about 15 and were in army dress, entered the house shooting all the way. They started slaughtering the inmates with bayonets and guns. I tried to escape but was shot at, said Younas, whose wife and 7-year-old daughter were among the dead.
> 
> Kotli deputy commissioner Abu Talib Kazmi told this correspondent that there was no let-up in enemy shelling due to which burials could not be held till afternoon*. The bodies were removed with much difficulty to the Dabsi village where they were laid on charpoys. Funeral prayers were held in that area late afternoon. Moving scenes were witnessed on the occasion with people of all ages crying and cursing the killers.
> 
> There was a total shutdown in the Kotli city, Nakyal and Tatta Pani towns on Friday to mourn the tragedy. Thousands of people staged demonstrations after Friday prayers and chanted anti-India slogans. Sources said people were planning to hold demos on Saturday as well. "There is a state of lamentation here. Everybody is remonstrating the barbarism and cowardice of the Indian forces," an old resident of Kotli told Dawn on telephone.*
> 
> In Muzaffarabad, a demonstration, led by senior minister Sahibzada Mohammad Ishaq Zafar, was also held. The demonstrators marched through streets of the city and finally stopped at Bank Road where they were addressed by the senior minister and others who condemned the Indian attack. Later, they went to the UN military observers' office and delivered a protest note.
> 
> The senior minister announced a two-day mourning in Azad Kashmir with holiday on Saturday. The national flag of AJK would fly at half-mast, he said. *Demonstrations were also held in many other towns of Azad Kashmir, including Rawalakot, Abbaspur and Mirpur. In 1998, 21 people were gunned down by the Indian commandos in the Bandala Seri village of the southern Bhimbher district of Azad Kashmir on the night of April 26.
> 
> Also, early this year on Jan 26, three women and an infant were found dead in an isolated house located close to the LoC in the forward Kahuta sector in the Bagh district. The head of the family was missing and the law enforcement agencies believed that the act was carried out by the Indians.*
> 
> 
> @Joe Shearer



I note these, @DESERT FIGHTER , without either acknowledging them or denying them, until I have had a chance to investigate further.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> I appreciate your detailed reply.



Some pics from Lanjote Massacre ;

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## Joe Shearer

Areesh said:


> That's what every fanboy thinks.
> 
> It is you who is saying conflict is coming. Not me. We would respond back. And we would respond good.



Your grounds for saying so are poor, and so are your grounds for calling me a fanboy, of all the bloody things.



> I can say you are better on propaganda than us. I acknowledge that. Or else you have done a lot of sh!t which we fail to propagate.



We have a free press, and an active and alert civil society. Do not forget that the beheading incident appeared on Indian news channels, not in Pakistani media. So far from complaining about our duplicity or withholding of information, you should think that for any incident not to be reported it is likely that it never happened. Nobody did a lot of shit which you failed to propagate; it didn't happen in the first place. The absence of evidence is not evidence of occurrence, to rephrase an old legal saw.

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## Hellfire

Stephen Cohen said:


> 1. The Fact is that Man Mohan Singh tied the hands of Indian Army
> 
> 2. That is why Pakistan Army carried out Two cross border raids during his time



Again:

1. Incorrect

2. Incorrect.

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## Crixus

Braves are braves irrespective of nationality , Indian Gen has done what you expect from a soldier towards other soldier .

Same with Lt. Arun Kheterpal and Brig Khawaja Mohammed Naser

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## Areesh

Joe Shearer said:


> Your grounds for saying so are poor, and so are your grounds for calling me a fanboy, of all the bloody things.
> 
> 
> 
> We have a free press, and an active and alert civil society. Do not forget that the beheading incident appeared on Indian news channels, not in Pakistani media. So far from complaining about our duplicity or withholding of information, you should think that for any incident not to be reported it is likely that it never happened. Nobody did a lot of shit which you failed to propagate; it didn't happen in the first place. The absence of evidence is not evidence of occurrence, to rephrase an old legal saw.



I didn't call you a fanboy. Read my post again.

Overwhelming evidence has been given by @DESERT FIGHTER There is nothing more needed to share about such incidents. I say we are poor at propaganda. We are yet to get an Arnab Goswami shouting every night at 9 pm waging war on our neighbors.

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## Joe Shearer

Areesh said:


> If you want a conflict. You would get it. It is very simple you know.
> 
> The choice is yours. Not ours.



Rich, coming from a nation that mounted attacks on ours in 1947, in 1965, in 1966-68, in 1999, and in Mumbai. It is you that have always sought a conflict, when not an open one, a stealthily promoted one. It is a consistent track record, and a pious statement this late in the day is unlikely to recoup your lost reputation.



Areesh said:


> I didn't call you a fanboy. Read my post again.
> 
> Overwhelming evidence has been given by @DESERT FIGHTER There is nothing more needed to share about such incidents. I say we are poor at propaganda. We are yet to get an Arnab Goswami shouting every night at 9 pm waging war on our neighbors.



Arnab Goswami is cordially despised by a large number of Indians. He appeals to the lowest common denominator. I beg to be excluded, along with a significant majority of others.


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## Stephen Cohen

hellfire said:


> Again:
> 
> 1. Incorrect
> 
> 2. Incorrect.



Are you MMS himself or his relative ; you have NO SHAME



Areesh said:


> We are yet to get an Arnab Goswami shouting every night at 9 pm waging war on our neighbors.



You dont need Arnab Goswami ; 

You have got Hafiz saeed and Masood Azhar and 
Sayeed salahuddin


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## Hellfire

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> In February 2000, *The Indian Special forces known as "Black Cat" attacked Aazad Kashmir in the area of Lanjoot,* they took control of a Pakistani village and spent a whole night there and martyred 14 innocent people. The Indian forces beheaded three Muslim Girls that night because of there sheer hatred for Muslims, and took 2 girls with them the next day when they retreated. In the following 24 hours Indian forces beheaded our 2 Muslim sisters and threw their heads near The check post of Pakistan Army.
> .



You lost credibility mate

Black Cats are NSG .... you don't have your facts straightened out

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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> You dont need Arnab Goswami ;
> 
> You have got Hafiz saeed and Masood Azhar and
> Sayeed salahuddin



None of them are editor in chief of a leading TV channel.

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## Stephen Cohen

@hellfire 

In 2013 when that Hemraj Incident happened then your Bloody MMS and AK antony messed
up

In parliament he said that Persons WEARING Pak Army uniforms attacked India

That was like giving a clean chit to Pak Army 

There was an uproar in Parliament and the fools then corrected themselves

But the damage had been done

On NDTV ; Shekhar Gupta said that there is so much anger in the Army
that AK Antony was advised by RAW not to go to Kashmir

You can ask Shekhar Gupta ; You will NOT get a LINK for what I am saying

After that firing went on LOC for several days

But what emboldened the Pak Army was the stupid duo of MMS and AK antony


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## Areesh

Joe Shearer said:


> Rich, coming from a nation that mounted attacks on ours in 1947, in 1965, in 1966-68, in 1999, and in Mumbai. It is you that have always sought a conflict, when not an open one, a stealthily promoted one. It is a consistent track record, and a pious statement this late in the day is unlikely to recoup your lost reputation.



First of all I don't why you are saying all this to me since the fact it is @Stephen Cohen who is saying that a conflict is imminent not me.

Secondly. As I said before. History is something that is always debatable and one can change it and twist it to one's perspective. You think we are aggressors. We share the same feelings for you. So let's not go there with blaming each other on what happened decades ago.




> Arnab Goswami is cordially despised by a large number of Indians. He appeals to the lowest common denominator. I beg to be excluded, along with a significant majority of others




He might appeal to least common denominator. With things going in Indian society this "least common denominator" won't be "least common denominator" anymore.


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## Stephen Cohen

Areesh said:


> None of them are editor in chief of a leading TV channel.



Arnab is NOT a terrorist

He just MOULDS and gives SHAPE to Public opinion

He helps people of India see the reality -- who are foolish to expect peace with Pakistan


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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> Are you MMS himself or his relative ; you have NO SHAME
> 
> 
> 
> You dont need Arnab Goswami ;
> 
> You have got Hafiz saeed and Masood Azhar and
> Sayeed salahuddin



@Stephen Cohen 

Kindly explain that remark.

What does the PM of India have to do with cross-border incidents?
When did the PM order an indifferent attitude or ask for holding back?
When did the PM interfere with the conduct of troops on a live front?
What proof do you have for this, other than your own opinion?
This kind of loose talk is exasperating.


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## Omega007

Joe Shearer said:


> It wasn't in cold blood. It was a corpse. Bad enough. Please can we drop this bloody thing?



Consider it dropped.

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## Stephen Cohen

*Hafiz Saeed's anti-India rally near Wagah border*

http://www.financialexpress.com/vid...iz-saeeds-anti-india-rally-near-wagah-border/


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## Joe Shearer

Areesh said:


> First of all I don't why you are saying all this to me since the fact it is @Stephen Cohen who is saying that a conflict is imminent not me.



I apologise. That c***n happens to be on my ignore list, and I only investigated when it became clear that you were referring to somebody else's posts, which I could not see.



> Secondly. As I said before. History is something that is always debatable and one can change it and twist it to one's perspective. You think we are aggressors. We share the same feelings for you. So let's not go there with blaming each other on what happened decades ago.



As you wish. I have always cited references that were Pakistani or neutral, never or rarely Indian references.



> He might appeal to least common denominator. With things going in Indian society this "least common denominator" won't be "least common denominator" anymore.



I have reason to believe that this is changing.

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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> Kindly explain that remark.
> 
> What does the PM of India have to do with cross-border incidents?
> When did the PM order an indifferent attitude or ask for holding back?
> When did the PM interfere with the conduct of troops on a live front?
> What proof do you have for this, other than your own opinion?
> This kind of loose talk is exasperating.



It looks like you were LIVING in a CAVE in 2013

Dont you remember the endless TV debates and Articles after TWO cross border
raids -- especially the causes which were analysed in detail

What had emboldened Pakistan Army 

Infact Pakistanis USED to TAUNT Indian soldiers that You will have to TAKE Permission
from MMS before opening Fire

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## Joe Shearer

Omega007 said:


> Consider it dropped.



I don't know why I got angry about the lack of acknowledgement of the Indian Army's role in Captain Sher Khan's investiture, and why I allowed myself to be completely hornswoggled by two intelligent operators, who kept up the pressure on completely different issues while ignoring the issue I had raised.

PS: that also answers @Areesh ' point about our propaganda machinery being better than theirs. It shows who is better at issue management.


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## Omega007

Joe Shearer said:


> *I don't know why I got angry* about the lack of acknowledgement of the Indian Army's role in Captain Sher Khan's investiture, and why I allowed myself to be completely hornswoggled by two intelligent operators, who kept up the pressure on completely different issues while ignoring the issue I had raised.


Because to err is only human, sir, nothing to be ashamed of it, could happen to anybody.

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## Hellfire

Stephen Cohen said:


> Are you MMS himself or his relative ; you have NO SHAME



Imbecile enough of your rants and idiocy

Get something straight into that thick head of yours:

1. Under no provision in any statuette or legal order has it ever been said that an officer of Indian Army, as commissioned by the President under the official Gazette Notification as pertinent, is not supposed to respond to any provocation across LC or even for that matter IB.

2. The difference between MMS and present government is the term 'proportional response' and 'escalatory response'.
The former meant that the army should respond only with like calibre weapons as to provocation of PA troops/BG units - for your inability to comprehend, it meant if a rocket was fired we respond with rocket, if a rifle, only with rifle. The latter again reiterates calibrated response to suppress enemy fire as per SOP for ARMY (which has always been with same caliber response until and unless a war), the difference comes now that the Company/Det commander can escalate the caliber on his side if the situation warrants. At no time, was IA prevented from using heavy caliber weapons, the same had to be told to the area commander/GOC incase of Artillery across LC or Brigade Commander in 81 mm mortar across LC.

3. The two raids by Pakistan? On 2 Aug 2011, 03 casualties occurred with a unit near Keran Sector with decapitation of heads of 01 x JCO and 02 x ORs. On 20 Aug 2011, biggest infiltration bid of the time along Kishanganaga river in Bagtore was foiled (Neelam river) where in Lt Navdeep Singh was awarded AC posthumously, on night of 30-31 Aug 2011, on Eid day, PA lost quite a few heads on the same post from where the BAT action was launched .... do you understand?

4. The IA has complete freedom of action to act as and when it needs. Indian Army calibrates its response to the situation. The act of declaring war is a political decision, not army's business. Its job is to ensure no infiltration in the LC region and under the mandate given to it _'to maintain the territorial integrity of the Union of India' _ and includes the mandate to preserve the status quo as directed by all government's including the present, along LC till such a time as a 'political settlement is facilitated'

For the umpteenth time, stop spreading your ignorance of things you DO NOT KNOW AND DON'T EFFING UNDERSTAND!!!

First serve your nation in uniform and then speak



Stephen Cohen said:


> @hellfire
> 
> In 2013 when that Hemraj Incident happened then your Bloody MMS and AK antony messed
> up
> 
> In parliament he said that Persons WEARING Pak Army uniforms attacked India
> 
> That was like giving a clean chit to Pak Army
> 
> There was an uproar in Parliament and the fools then corrected themselves
> 
> But the damage had been done
> 
> On NDTV ; Shekhar Gupta said that there is so much anger in the Army
> that AK Antony was advised by RAW not to go to Kashmir
> 
> You can ask Shekhar Gupta ; You will NOT get a LINK for what I am saying
> 
> After that firing went on LOC for several days
> 
> But what emboldened the Pak Army was the stupid duo of MMS and AK antony




Your idiocy knows no bounds ....

We prepared for limited strike. We were asked to prepare targets across LC. We did exactly that .....

Now shut the eff up

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## Stephen Cohen

hellfire said:


> Imbecile enough of your rants and idiocy
> 
> Get something straight into that thick head of yours:
> 
> 1. Under no provision in any statuette or legal order has it ever been said that an officer of Indian Army, as commissioned by the President under the official Gazette Notification as pertinent, is not supposed to respond to any provocation across LC or even for that matter IB.
> 
> 2. The difference between MMS and present government is the term 'proportional response' and 'escalatory response'.
> The former meant that the army should respond only with like calibre weapons as to provocation of PA troops/BG units - for your inability to comprehend, it meant if a rocket was fired we respond with rocket, if a rifle, only with rifle. The latter again reiterates calibrated response to suppress enemy fire as per SOP for ARMY (which has always been with same caliber response until and unless a war), the difference comes now that the Company/Det commander can escalate the caliber on his side if the situation warrants. At no time, was IA prevented from using heavy caliber weapons, the same had to be told to the area commander/GOC incase of Artillery across LC or Brigade Commander is 81 mm mortar across LC.
> 
> 3. The two raids by Pakistan? On 2 Aug 2011, 03 casualties occurred with a unit near Keran Sector with decapitation of heads of 01 x JCO and 02 x ORs. On 20 Aug 2011, biggest infiltration bid of the time along Kishanganaga river in Bagtore was foiled (Neelam river) where in Lt Navdeep Singh was awarded AC posthumously, on night of 30-31 Aug 2011, on Eid day, PA lost quite a few heads on the same post from where the BAT action was launched .... do you understand?
> 
> 4. The IA has complete freedom of action to act as and when it needs. Indian Army calibrates its response to the situation. The act of declaring war is a political decision, not army's business. Its job is to ensure no infiltration in the LC region and under the mandate given to it _'to maintain the territorial integrity of the Union of India' _ and includes the mandate to preserve the status quo as directed by all government's including the present, along LC till such a time as a 'political settlement is facilitated'
> 
> For the umpteenth time, stop spreading your ignorance of things you DO NOT KNOW AND DON'T EFFING UNDERSTAND!!!



I will never BELIEVE you -- who are you -- an ANONYMOUS supporter of MMS 

During 2013 ; there was endless debates and articles on those events 
and what emboldened Pakistan Army 

Many experts wrote and spoke at that time -- with their NAMES and photos and designations 
They are far more credible than you 

Why has there been NO CEASEFIRE violation for nearly a year now

@hellfire and @Joe Shearer 

You cannot defend the Indefensible 

Both MMS and AK Antony damaged Indian Army's MORALE and Fighting strength 
by APPEASING PAKISTAN


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## Hellfire

Stephen Cohen said:


> I will never BELIEVE you -- who are you -- an ANONYMOUS supporter of MMS
> 
> During 2013 ; there was endless debates and articles on those events
> and what emboldened Pakistan Army
> 
> Many experts wrote and spoke at that time -- with their NAMES and photos and designations
> They are far more credible than you
> 
> Why has there been NO CEASEFIRE violation for nearly a year now



I dont give a rat's a$$ for your believing or not ... 4 PARA conducted the strike Alpha Assault team I just have given you the team and the outfit.

Beyond that you get nothing.

There was no ceasefire violation last year dumba$$ .... they fired across IB in Sambha-Jammu-Kathua ... a boundary recognised by the Pakistanis as international boundary under their stupidity in Karachi agreement.

They realised they made a blunder as IB in erstwhile state of J&K has legitimised the Indian Claim by this act of their's and now they are trying to reverse it and call it "working boundary".

And idiots like you .. not realising the significance of the whole thing call a violation of "INTERNATIONAL BORDER" as 'Ceasefire' violation, thereby giving legitimacy to their attempts at backtracking

I told you earlier also - speak after learning

You know eff all .. and you damage Indian cause by such stupidities as exhibited by you.

And you know what? You think you are so effing intelligent that you will continue to argue without understanding the ramifications and significance of what I am saying above ..

You idiots think that nationalism is your forte .. tell you what? Go serve your nation in J&K and then talk to me

We, as a nation, are doing a tremendous job. We as armed forces are doing a tremendous job ... inspite and despite idiots like you being there - no knowledge and damaging all efforts and sacrifices to ensure diplomatic and moral ascendancy , which today has allowed us to reach a point where no one says a word about Kashmir and does not give a rat's fart for it.

So can your cr@p

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## war&peace

Joe Shearer said:


> This is one thing on which I tend to get hot under the collar. Except for that bizarre decapitation incident, I don't know of the IA behaving in an unchivalrous or ungenerous way. I really feel bad about this.


That decapitation incident was fake. PA will never do that. PA is a professional army. In the battle field, they will kill the enemies with whatever they can and this is a universal truth but once captured and PoW, they will only be treated as per Islamic traditions (Not the Taliban or ISIS version, but following the way of our Holy Prophet (ﷺ)) and international laws. As per Islamic traditions, prisoners of wars are not killed but to be kept in safe custody so there is no question of decapitation and if any such rogue elements did that, they would have been facing court martial and capital punishments.

Also if any Indian soldier performs beyond the call of his duty and shows courage, it should be acknowledged by PA but in the battle field and not against innocent protesters. That will make them only the cowards and terrorists funded by the state as example set by the post WW II proceedings of war crime tribunals that even if following the commands, the soldiers cannot commit crimes against humanity and they are also responsible for it.

For example we know that Gorkhas are very brave people in Indian Army and we have respect for them


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## Stephen Cohen

hellfire said:


> I dont give a rat's a$$ for your believing or not ... 4 PARA conducted the strike Alpha Assault team I just have given you the team and the outfit.
> 
> Beyond that you get nothing.
> 
> There was no ceasefire violation last year dumba$$ .... they fired across IB in Sambha-Jammu-Kathua ... a boundary recognised by the Pakistanis as international boundary under their stupidity in Karachi agreement.
> 
> They realised they made a blunder as IB in erstwhile state of J&K has legitimised the Indian Claim by this act if their and now the try and call it "working boundary".
> 
> And idiots like you .. not realising the significance of the whole thing call a violation of "INTERNATIONAL BORDER" as 'Ceasefire' violation, thereby giving legitimacy to their attempts at backtracking
> 
> I told you earlier also - speak after learning
> 
> You know eff all .. and you damage Indian cause by such stupidities as exhibited by you.
> 
> And you know what? You think you are so effing intelligent that you will continue to argue without understanding the ramifications and significance of what I am saying above ..
> 
> You idiots think that nationalism is your forte .. tell you what? Go serve your nation in J&K and then talk to me
> 
> We, as a nation, are doing a tremendous job. We as armed forces are doing a tremendous job ... inspite and despite idiots like you being there - no knowledge and damaging all efforts and sacrifices to ensure diplomatic and moral ascendancy , which today has allowed us to reach a point where no one says a word about Kashmir and does not give a rat's fart for it.
> 
> So can your cr@p



You might be a soldier but you have definitely
Benefitted from MMS and AK Antony 's rule -- that is why you are defending them
and glorifying them 

You can say anything -- who cares

Write an article with your real name ; photo and designation
and GLORIFY MMS and AK Antony as much as you want

Who is Stopping you

There is FREEDOM of expression in this country

If we have to tolerate Barkha Dutt ; you are still harmless

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## Hellfire

@war&peace I will laugh at anyone who says decapitation is never done by either forces ... sad but its the truth.

Ask the military professionals around

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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> I will never BELIEVE you -- who are you -- an ANONYMOUS supporter of MMS
> 
> During 2013 ; there was endless debates and articles on those events
> and what emboldened Pakistan Army
> 
> Many experts wrote and spoke at that time -- with their NAMES and photos and designations
> They are far more credible than you
> 
> Why has there been NO CEASEFIRE violation for nearly a year now
> 
> @hellfire and @Joe Shearer
> 
> You cannot defend the Indefensible
> 
> Both MMS and AK Antony damaged Indian Army's MORALE and Fighting strength
> by APPEASING PAKISTAN



You are talking rubbish. Your ignorance of ground conditions, and of the circumstances in which the Army does its work, is astonishing; it is odd that you still choose to comment, demonstrating your shallow, superficial factual base.

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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> You are talking rubbish. Your ignorance of ground conditions, and of the circumstances in which the Army does its work, is astonishing; it is odd that you still choose to comment, demonstrating your shallow, superficial factual base.



PLEASE ; you TWO Anonymous experts are NOT the ONLY EXPERTS 
in this COUNTRY


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## war&peace

hellfire said:


> @war&peace I will laugh at anyone who says decapitation is never done by either forces ... sad but its the truth.
> 
> Ask the military professionals around



In the battle field, it is of course a possibility, when the enemies soldiers come very close to each other, they can stab, strangle, stifle and decapitate...I do not deny that. But I'm talking about PoW.

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## Joe Shearer

war&peace said:


> That decapitation incident was fake. PA will never do that. PA is a professional army. In the battle field, they will kill the enemies with whatever they can and this is a universal truth but once captured and PoW, they will only be treated as per Islamic traditions (Not the Taliban or ISIS version, but following the way of our Holy Prophet (ﷺ)) and international laws. As per Islamic traditions, prisoners of wars are not killed but to be kept in safe custody so there is no question of decapitation and if any such rogue elements did that, they would have been facing court martial and capital punishments.
> 
> Also if any Indian soldier performs beyond the call of his duty and shows courage, it should be acknowledged by PA but in the battle field and not against innocent protesters. That will make them only the cowards and terrorists funded by the state as example set by the post WW II proceedings of war crime tribunals that even if following the commands, the soldiers cannot commit crimes against humanity and they are also responsible for it.
> 
> For example we know that Gorkhas are very brave people in Indian Army and we have respect for them



It was allegedly an Indian act (NOT of a POW!)
There was two recorded incidents due to the Pakistan Army. In the first of these, Ilyas Kashmiri displayed the head of an Indian soldier to President Musharraf, and was rewarded for it.


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## Hellfire

Stephen Cohen said:


> You might be a soldier but you have definitely
> Benefitted from MMS and AK Antony 's rule -- that is why you are defending them
> and glorifying them
> 
> You can say anything -- who cares
> 
> Write an article with your real name ; photo and designation
> and GLORIFY MMS and AK Antony as much as you want
> 
> Who is Stopping you
> 
> There is FREEDOM of expression in this country
> 
> If we have to tolerate Barkha Dutt ; you are still harmless




That's your "highly intelligent" post, eh? Check your facts .. stop posting retarded posts like you are doing ... not one Indian who has served will support the above non-sense

read up about missile strike in an attempt to take out Zia in 1982 ...

You have no clue .. go retire and stop insulting people who know what they are talking about and posting your ignorance and your non-sense.

The present govt is no fool either. They could have attacked across the IB, did they? Because something bigger is on...

and people like you are a mere distraction

@Joe Shearer

And I have lost my patience with him and old windus too!

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## Stephen Cohen

@Joe Shearer @hellfire

Today there has been an article called INEPT Antony 

Why dont BOTH of you write a counter article Glorifying Antony and MMS 
using your real names ; photos and designations 



hellfire said:


> That's your "highly intelligent" post, eh? Check your facts .. stop posting retarded posts like you are doing ... not one Indian who has served will support the above non-sense
> 
> read up about missile strike in an attempt to take out Zia in 1982 ...
> 
> You have no clue .. go retire and stop insulting people who know what they are talking about and posting your ignorance and your non-sense.
> 
> The present govt is no fool either. They could have attacked across the IB, did they? Because something bigger is on...
> 
> and people like you are a mere distraction



Please go away ; I dont want talk to people who GLORIFY MMS and AK Antony


----------



## war&peace

Joe Shearer said:


> There was two recorded incidents due to the Pakistan Army. In the first of these, Ilyas Kashmiri displayed the head of an Indian soldier to President Musharraf, and was rewarded for it.


I would need a credible source for it. Because that's abominable and Musharraf being a soldier, I won't expect any such desecration of a fellow enemy soldier...the battle should be taken like sports and sportsmen, on the field soldiers are enemies but off the field you can be the best friends and both Indian and Pakistani cricketers have shown that time and again.


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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> @Joe Shearer @hellfire
> 
> Today there has been an article called INEPT Antony
> 
> Why dont BOTH of you write a counter article Glorifying Antony and MMS
> using your real names ; photos and designations
> 
> 
> 
> Please go away ; I dont want talk to people who GLORIFY MMS and AK Antony



Why don't you soak your head! that will need you to go away, for the greater good of the forum.


----------



## nair

Stephen Cohen said:


> You might be a soldier but you have definitely
> Benefitted from MMS and AK Antony 's rule -- that is why you are defending them
> and glorifying them
> 
> You can say anything -- who cares
> 
> Write an article with your real name ; photo and designation
> and GLORIFY MMS and AK Antony as much as you want
> 
> Who is Stopping you
> 
> There is FREEDOM of expression in this country
> 
> If we have to tolerate Barkha Dutt ; you are still harmless



You are on a defence forum, and the least you can do is respect some one who worked in armed forces......You and i belong to those who are called key board warriors who cannot even fire a 9 mm pistol.....Keep your politial differences away..... MMS and AK may not be as bad as projected to you.....

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## Joe Shearer

war&peace said:


> I would need a credible source for it. Because that's abominable and Musharraf being a soldier, I won't expect any such desecration of a fellow enemy soldier...the battle should be taken like sports and sportsmen, on the field soldiers are enemies but off the field you can be the best friends and both Indian and Pakistani cricketers have shown that time and again.



It is reported by a Pakistani poster in an earlier post. On this thread itself.


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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> Why don't you soak your head! that will need you to go away, for the greater good of the forum



Your Integrity is Towards the FORUM ; NOT the TRUTH 

And that too a Pakistani forum ; 

so what is the surprise that you LOVE MMS and AK Antony


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## nair

Joe Shearer said:


> There was two recorded incidents due to the Pakistan Army. In the first of these, Ilyas Kashmiri displayed the head of an Indian soldier to President Musharraf, and was rewarded for it.



And we all know what happened to Ilyas Kashmiri after that.....

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## Hellfire

Joe Shearer said:


> Why don't you soak your head! that will need you to go away, for the greater good of the forum.




Sir to your earlier post about Pakistan Army forwarding citation for any indian?

The Pakka episode in Fazilka in 1971 wherein SSG took control of one flank of the DCB and the brigade there was tasked to take it, which incidentally we couldn't as the young lieutenant of Pakistan was excellent in his defence?

Incidentally Maj Shabbir Sharief, the elder brother of present COAS of PA lost his life in it.
Maj Narain Singh was only one to reach the defences held by PA in DCB and Beriwala Bridge (Maj Sharief)


His citation was, as legend would have it, written by the young lieutenant of SSG on a piece of paper and left after the war for his bravery .. its a legend which a vet of INA who was resident of Fazilka told me back in 1991 .. so I am missing out on the names and few facts. Cant find any record in Indian official history ... 

Incidentally we could not re-capture the DCB .... lol

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## nair

Stephen Cohen said:


> so what is the surprise that you LOVE MMS and AK Antony



So the way you say i get a feel that it is a crime to love MMS or AK


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## Stephen Cohen

nair said:


> MMS and AK may not be as bad as projected to you.....



They were both DISASTERS along with P Chidambaram and That Italian B****

If India survived it is BECAUSE of the 
INSTITUTIONAL STRENGTH of our Forces and the Civilian Bureaucracy


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## Sneaker

Joe Shearer said:


> I would like to point out that Captain Karnail Sher Khan got his award ON THE SPECIFIC REFERENCE MADE BY THE INDIAN ARMY TO THEIR COUNTERPARTS IN THE PAKISTAN ARMY.
> 
> There were no survivors, no one to testify to his gallantry.
> 
> Please look it up.
> 
> At one time I had kept count. There were 8 occasions when Pakistani soldiers got awards based on Indian Army reports to the PA.
> 
> My facts gathering may not be very good, but I do not know of a single instance of the reverse happening.



I hear that Arun Khetrapal was praised by his opposite after cease fire. But unlike other cases, his galor was also witnessed by own troops...


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## Hellfire

@nair 

I have given up on this kid .. he is right, we survive because of who he mentions .. but are weakened in our cause as a nation by people of this thinking and knowledge.

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## Joe Shearer

hellfire said:


> Sir to your earlier post about Pakistan Army forwarding citation for any indian?
> 
> The Pakka episode in Fazilka in 1971 wherein SSG took control of one flank of the DCB and the brigade there was tasked to take it, which incidentally we couldn't as the young lieutenant of Pakistan was excellent in his defence?
> 
> Incidentally Maj Shabbir Sharief, the elder brother of present COAS of PA lost his life in it.
> Maj Narain Singh was only one to reach the defences held by PA in DCB and Beriwala Bridge (Maj Sharief)
> 
> 
> His citation was, as legend would have it, written by the young lieutenant of SSG on a piece of paper and left after the war for his bravery .. its a legend which a vet of INA who was resident of Fazilka told me back in 1991 .. so I am missing out on the names and few facts. Cant find any record in Indian official history ...
> 
> Incidentally we could not re-capture the DCB .... lol



I'm delighted to read this. It disturbed me when I did my research (oh, some five or six years ago) that it was so one-sided. 

Really appreciate this. 

I was about to write something when caution stayed my hand. We are under observation by peculiar people.

@hellfire , you are bothering the dickens out of me. You said something about my pic on WhatsApp. How the devil did you get hold of my WhatsApp?

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## Hellfire

Sneaker said:


> I hear that Arun Khetrapal was praised by his opposite after cease fire. But unlike other cases, his galor was also witnessed by own troops...




His father was received, by none other than the Commander of the tank that killed his tank and him

An honor from a soldier to another .. 

His father was hosted by the officer - a brigadier rank officer

https://defence.pk/threads/a-touching-tale-of-71-war.38768/

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## Stephen Cohen

nair said:


> So the way you say i get a feel that it is a crime to love MMS or AK



In India NOTHING is a crime

You can call for India's disintegration like Kanhaiya and Umar Khalid and
GET POLICE PROTECTION because there is a threat to your life

You can glorify Terrorists like Barkha Dutt is doing and YET get a PADMA SHRI
and be a Heroine for all Anti nationals

MMS and Antony were just bloody crooks ; incompetent people and 
just indulged in APPEASEMENT of Pakistan

HONOURABLE people

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## nair

Stephen Cohen said:


> They were both DISASTERS along with P Chidambaram and That Italian B****
> 
> If India survived it is BECAUSE of the
> INSTITUTIONAL STRENGTH of our Forces and the Civilian Bureaucracy



There is a half filled cup infront of you....... I leave it to you to decide mate.....



hellfire said:


> @nair
> 
> I have given up on this kid .. he is right, we survive because of who he mentions .. but are weakened in our cause as a nation by people of this thinking and knowledge.



This is what happens when people get blinded by political love or hatred....... Poor guy wont even know what is wrong with him.....

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## Joe Shearer

Sneaker said:


> I hear that Arun Khetrapal was praised by his opposite after cease fire. But unlike other cases, his galor was also witnessed by own troops...



No, it is a romantic, very sad story. His father (also a fauji, retired by then) went to Pakistan after the war. There he was intercepted by a servicing officer of brigadier rank and put up at home. However, that officer never, ever exchanged any words with him until the last day of the visit. It was then that he entered Col. Brigadier Khetrapal's room and abruptly informed him in tones of deeply suppressed emotion that he was the tank commander whose tank fired the shell that had killed the Lieutenant. If I remember correctly, I read the Colonel Brigadier Sahib's personal account.



hellfire said:


> His father was received, by none other than the Commander of the tank that killed his tank and him
> 
> An honor from a soldier to another ..
> 
> His father was hosted by the officer - a brigadier rank officer
> 
> https://defence.pk/threads/a-touching-tale-of-71-war.38768/



Damn! I just repeated the same story without seeing that you had written. Thanks.

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## Hellfire

Joe Shearer said:


> Really appreciate this.
> 
> I was about to write something when caution stayed my hand. We are under observation by peculiar people.
> 
> @hellfire , you are bothering the dickens out of me. You said something about my pic on WhatsApp. How the devil did you get hold of my WhatsApp?




Yes. I agree.

For latter, you leave your number lying around .. bound to be picked up ..lol


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## nair

Stephen Cohen said:


> MMS and Antony were just bloody crooks ; incompetent people and
> just indulged in APPEASEMENT of Pakistan



I dont go to a sakha mate..... nor i go to a congress rally.(i do not know what equivalent they have)......


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## django

Stephen Cohen said:


> We won ; they lost ; why do you expect them to commend our soldiers
> 
> And what would their commendation letter look like
> 
> " Major Vikram Batra or Captain Manoj Pandey drove us away from Tololing ./ Tiger Hill"


you did not win our politicians lost.


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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> They were both DISASTERS along with P Chidambaram and That Italian B****
> 
> If India survived it is BECAUSE of the
> INSTITUTIONAL STRENGTH of our Forces and the Civilian Bureaucracy



The person you are addressing in such rude terms is a member of the forces whose institutional strength you have been extolling. 

What are you part of? The Forces? Or the civilian bureaucracy?

What are your credentials to question his observations on what the Army was and was not allowed to do, sitting well outside any point of military action?


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## Stephen Cohen

nair said:


> There is a half filled cup infront of you....... I leave it to you to decide mate.....



Wrong Analogy mate -- If you want to describe MMS and AK antony

We can say

1 Fish ROTS from the head

Or 2 Wolf in Sheep's clothing


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## nair

Stephen Cohen said:


> Wrong Analogy mate -- If you want to describe MMS and AK antony
> 
> We can say
> 
> 1 Fish ROTS from the head
> 
> Or 2 Wolf in Sheep's clothing



Lol Ask your own leaders ( assuming that ur a BJP supporter) They might have a different opinion....... Any way i do not want this to be a political thread, and the way you post i dont think you cant think beyond political angle..... So kindly do not derail the thread by giving it political angle .........We have a dedicated sticky thread


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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> The person you are addressing in such rude terms is a member of the forces whose institutional strength you have been extolling.
> 
> What are you part of? The Forces? Or the civilian bureaucracy?
> 
> What are your credentials to question his observations on what the Army was and was not allowed to do, sitting well outside any point of military action?



So now you want to bring out more dirty Linen

OK here it is

Over the years CONGRESS party used Promotions in the Military as a TOOL
for making sychopants out of Army officers

The Pyramidical structure and the intense competition led to politicisation of Army promotions

Hence there is NO surprise that people who have GAINED from the UPA GRAVY train
will sing praises of it

In BR (bharat Rakshak ) there was a discussion on How many good MAJOR Generals
who had lost the next promotion
including NDA toppers --all due to POLITICISATION

That damned site is down

If VK SINGH's Birth records can be fabricated ; if PRIME land in Cantonments can be
sold 

if ARMS dealers can decide policy then what is big deal in appointing
your favorite people as LT GENERALS


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## SirHatesALot

@Joe Shearer and @hellfire If its not much trouble could you guys point me where to find any authentic (or at-least close to it) write up on covert operations along the LOC.
Thanking you in advance!


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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> So now you want to bring out more dirty Linen
> 
> OK here it is
> 
> Over the years CONGRESS party used Promotions in the Military as a TOOL
> for making sychopants out of Army officers
> 
> The Pyramidical structure and the intense competition led to politicisation of Army promotions
> 
> Hence there is NO surprise that people who have GAINED from the UPA GRAVY train
> will sing praises of it
> 
> In BR (bharat Rakshak ) there was a discussion on How many good MAJOR Generals
> who had lost the next promotion
> including NDA toppers --all due to POLITICISATION
> 
> That damned site is down
> 
> If VK SINGH's Birth records can be fabricated ; if PRIME land in Cantonments can be
> sold
> 
> if ARMS dealers can decide policy then what is big deal in appointing
> your favorite people as LT GENERALS



Nothing.

Now bugger off.


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## Stephen Cohen

Joe Shearer said:


> Nothing.
> 
> Now bugger off.



SAME TO YOU ; off for my dinner ; This intense discussion has made me hungry


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## Royal Blue007

django said:


> you did not win our politicians lost.


Pak army can't loose, they are not loosers
It's always traitor politicians,
It was politicians too who surrendered in 71 kabaddi war


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## Joe Shearer

SirHatesALot said:


> @Joe Shearer and @hellfire If its not much trouble could you guys point me where to find any authentic (or at-least close to it) write up on covert operations along the LOC.
> Thanking you in advance!



Ha ha ha ha ha....isn't that a contradiction in terms? I mean, something on the lines of 
"The Twitching Tail: Covert Operations Between 1976 and 1988 on the LOC"; or perhaps
"Slide into Danger: My Years as an Ex-filtrator in J&K"

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## Sneaker

Stephen Cohen said:


> So now you want to bring out more dirty Linen
> 
> OK here it is
> 
> Over the years CONGRESS party used Promotions in the Military as a TOOL
> for making sychopants out of Army officers
> 
> The Pyramidical structure and the intense competition led to politicisation of Army promotions
> 
> Hence there is NO surprise that people who have GAINED from the UPA GRAVY train
> will sing praises of it
> 
> In BR (bharat Rakshak ) there was a discussion on How many good MAJOR Generals
> who had lost the next promotion
> including NDA toppers --all due to POLITICISATION
> 
> That damned site is down
> 
> If VK SINGH's Birth records can be fabricated ; if PRIME land in Cantonments can be
> sold
> 
> if ARMS dealers can decide policy then what is big deal in appointing
> your favorite people as LT GENERALS



That is nothing new for congis. Remember Bhindranwalle's trusted lieutenant? he was major general in Indian army, brilliant and instrumental in all 3 wars (1962, 65 and 71) who wasn't promoted because he wasn't a sycophant... he was harassed so much that he quit and became a militant. he was the reason why we had to suffer so much casualties...


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## Dash

Stephen Cohen said:


> I will never BELIEVE you -- who are you -- an ANONYMOUS supporter of MMS
> 
> During 2013 ; there was endless debates and articles on those events
> and what emboldened Pakistan Army
> 
> Many experts wrote and spoke at that time -- with their NAMES and photos and designations
> They are far more credible than you
> 
> Why has there been NO CEASEFIRE violation for nearly a year now
> 
> @hellfire and @Joe Shearer
> 
> You cannot defend the Indefensible
> 
> Both MMS and AK Antony damaged Indian Army's MORALE and Fighting strength
> by APPEASING PAKISTAN



You are somewhat wrong about your description of morale of army here.

Will get back to you.


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## django

Royal Blue007 said:


> *Pak army can't loose, they are not loosers *

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## Mugwop

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Captain Karnal Sher Khan wasn't martyred on our side .. He had descended down to Indian base camp chasing your troops.. The only witness of his valour were your own troops..
> 
> Captain was very famous for his bravery and valour during the campaign..
> 
> His body was lifted from Delhi and received at CKL AB..


After he died his body was being kicked around also by their soldiers but this indian general told them to stop.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Mugwop said:


> After he died his body was being kicked around also by their soldiers but this indian general told them to stop.


Lone injured man killed his body beheaded.. This remains mutilated .. And his head kept by the Indian unit as a "trophy" ... That's indian army and their high morals.

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## Joe Shearer

Stephen Cohen said:


> SAME TO YOU ; off for my dinner ; This intense discussion has made me hungry



INTENSE? You think because you make an idiot of yourself, telling your elders and betters about military matters and you think you know a thing or two in these areas, and you spout off on the subject.



Mugwop said:


> After he died his body was being kicked around also by their soldiers but this indian general told them to stop.



Where did you get that? There was no general present, AFAIK.

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## Dzz

Seriously? It's common courtesy for army personal to pay respect to fallen military soldiers, why does Pakistan media over exaggerate everything.

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## ranjeet

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Lone injured man killed his body beheaded.. This remains mutilated .. And his head kept by the Indian unit as a "trophy" ... That's indian army and their high morals.


Whose head was kept as a trophy?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Joe Shearer said:


> INTENSE? You think because you make an idiot of yourself, telling your elders and betters about military matters and you think you know a thing or two in these areas, and you spout off on the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> Where did you get that? There was no general present, AFAIK.



The same interview. The 3 star agreed..


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## Burhan Wani

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The raid by Indian forces happened in 2000... Ranjot Massacre;
> 
> @Jonah Arthur.
> 
> 
> In February 2000, The Indian Special forces known as "Black Cat" attacked Aazad Kashmir in the area of Lanjoot, they took control of a Pakistani village and spent a whole night there and martyred 14 innocent people. The Indian forces beheaded three Muslim Girls that night because of there sheer hatred for Muslims, and took 2 girls with them the next day when they retreated. In the following 24 hours Indian forces beheaded our 2 Muslim sisters and threw their heads near The check post of Pakistan Army.
> Victims included children aged 2 years to 10 years, women aged 20 to 80, Men aged 27 to 95
> View attachment 238107
> View attachment 238108
> View attachment 238107
> View attachment 238109
> 
> I have other pictures but according to rules and regulations graphic pictures are not allowed.


Yes it is reality but right after this event some volunteers led by Ilyas Kshmiri took revenge and beheaded Indian officers in front of villagers.

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## salarsikander

Joe Shearer said:


> My facts gathering may not be very good, but I do not know of a single instance of the reverse happening.


That is true. But perhaps nothing of that sort has been reciprocated so far that would invoke a clap of applause from the other side of border. The ex COAS of India in his talk show commended Pak army, the 8-pass charlie the name that was given by Indian pilots. You see one cannot remain silent at the courageous and valor act exhibited by the men-in-uniform on the other side of border. We are still waiting for such acts to be reciprocated, that's all what I can say


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## Joe Shearer

salarsikander said:


> That is true. But perhaps nothing of that sort has been reciprocated so far that would invoke a clap of applause from the other side of border. The ex COAS of India in his talk show commended Pak army, the 8-pass charlie the name that was given by Indian pilots. You see one cannot remain silent at the courageous and valor act exhibited by the men-in-uniform on the other side of border. We are still waiting for such acts to be reciprocated, that's all what I can say



I couldn't understand a word of that. Could you be less diplomatic - that has not been your style so far, so why fix what ain't broke? - and translate?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> The same interview. The 3 star agreed..



So far you have been informative. Why not continue? Which interview? What did the three star agree to?


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## salarsikander

Joe Shearer said:


> I couldn't understand a word of that. Could you be less diplomatic - that has not been your style so far, so why fix what ain't broke? - and translate


Forgive me if I was trouble of any sort.

Allow me to explain layman term. The fact that why it wasn't reverse as suggested by you, I believe, because Indians have yet to live up to the true spirit of warriorship unlike their counterparts Pakistanis. The famous name 8-pass charlie was given to pakistani bomber ( unamed) by Indian pilots, Even retired Coas of India appreciates Jinnah. One cannot remain silent without appreciating the acts of valour and courage exhibited by Pakistani. Hence that is why even indian admit


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## BetterPakistan

Oops, indians not gonna like it


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## livingdead

salarsikander said:


> That is true. But perhaps nothing of that sort has been reciprocated so far that would invoke a clap of applause from the other side of border. The ex COAS of India in his talk show commended Pak army, the 8-pass charlie the name that was given by Indian pilots. You see one cannot remain silent at the courageous and valor act exhibited by the men-in-uniform on the other side of border. We are still waiting for such acts to be reciprocated, that's all what I can say


right.. we fought 3.5 wars.. but you guys could not find a single instance of Indian bravery.... reminds me of a Fakir Naik logic.. when asked why no temple/church is allowed in mecca but muslims demand mosque everywhere, he said, we know our religion is true one.. but

As somebody already pointed out, the vanquished dont get to recommend other side, and dead ppl are terrible eyewitness.
I do remember one specific arun khetarpal (of poona horse) being praised for his bravery by PA officers(may be in memoir,dont remember) but not sure if they actually recommended anything.

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## uzbi aka viper

Joe Shearer said:


> Rich, coming from a nation that mounted attacks on ours in 1947, in 1965, in 1966-68, in 1999, and in Mumbai. It is you that have always sought a conflict, when not an open one, a stealthily promoted one. It is a consistent track record, and a pious statement this late in the day is unlikely to recoup your lost reputation.





*sir with due respect and consuming your intellect ..i want to correct you on something and that is ' we did not ever considered Kashmir as an integral part of India so please stop depicting us "aggressors" ... we never attacked India "rather disputed,deception ,hegemony and encroachment of military occupation of India" in 1948 ,1965 and in 1999..so that changes the whole narrative ,for all these years you cant suppress the vendetta of Kashmir people associated them with terrorism or blaming pak for it.*

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## salarsikander

hinduguy said:


> when asked why no temple/church is allowed in mecca but muslims demand mosque everywhere, he said, we know our religion is true one.. but


Hi, 

That is Zakir naik. Secondly, Yes he is right about that. No Non=muslims are allowed in the vicinity of holy mosques. Yet, you are free to build and worship in other areas. Now its Saudi govt law that prevents, otherwise there is nothing in Islam that prevents non-muslims from building their worshipping places


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## livingdead

salarsikander said:


> Hi,
> 
> That is Zakir naik. Secondly, Yes he is right about that. No Non=muslims are allowed in the vicinity of holy mosques. Yet, you are free to build and worship in other areas. Now its Saudi govt law that prevents, otherwise there is nothing in Islam that prevents non-muslims from building their worshipping places


I was talking more about his 'heads its mine.. and tails is not yours' reasoning... of course its saudi govt's decision who am I to object.
if it was other way around(about recommendation) you will be complaining about stingy IA and hindu meanmindedness...


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## Areesh

Stephen Cohen said:


> Arnab is NOT a terrorist
> 
> He just MOULDS and gives SHAPE to Public opinion
> 
> He helps people of India see the reality -- who are foolish to expect peace with Pakistan



Arnab is not a terrorist. I agree with that. He is just a mouthpiece of terrorists and extremists.



John Reese said:


> Crossing LOC was Break of Bilateral agreements and International Norms Set by UN
> 
> *What if We broke indus Water Treaty It will be Mass Drought In Pakistan*



LOC is a temporary ceasefire line whose fate is yet to be decided. It is not an international boundary. Even you have crossed it for cross border operations in 90's.

AS for bold part. Try it.


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## salarsikander

hinduguy said:


> I was talking more about his 'heads its mine.. and tails is not yours' reasoning... of course its saudi govt's decision who am I to object.
> if it was other way around(about recommendation)* you will be complaining about stingy IA and hindu meanmindedness...*



You cannot accuse me of anything that I haven't done !

Again, As I said the vicinity of those sites are holy and sacred. There is nothing stopping your or anyone for that matter in building your places of worship anywhere else.



John Reese said:


> What if We broke indus Water Treaty It will be Mass Drought In Pakistan


Absurdity and trolling. A perfect ingredient for earning myself a good long term ban. 

What if we just nuke the shit out of you guys ?

Ahh then again, in reality none of this would happen you see. So lets discuss something more in terms of practical approach


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## livingdead

salarsikander said:


> You cannot accuse me of anything that I haven't done !
> 
> Again, As I said the vicinity of those sites are holy and sacred. There is nothing stopping your or anyone for that matter in building your places of worship anywhere else.


man.. that was just an example.. (btw the same logic was used by people who broke babri mosque, its a holy site, birth place of Rama so muslims build a mosque elsewhere)...
just forget the example.. my bad.
I am talking about PA now, what would be your reaction if PA made 8 recommendations and IA did none... hypothetically speaking.


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## waz

The thread was about the praise for Sher Khan (ra). Now it has gone off-topic with nonsense such as the Indus river treaty being discussed. Thread closed.

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