# Attack on PNS Mehran Base - PAF Faisal Base



## wisegoof

Updated at: 2319 PST, Sunday, May 22, 2011
KARACHI: Terrorists have launched an armed attack on PNS Mehran, a heavily guarded facility of Pakistan Navy, located along Sharea Faisal, Federal Interior Minister Rehman Malik said on Sunday.

TV images showed smoke billowing from PNS Mehran where terrorists have blown up a four-engine plane of Pakistan Navy by firing a rocket.

Five injured in the incident have so far been shifted to a local hospital.

Earlier, four blasts were reported from the area near PAF base Faisal.

Ambulances and fire tenders were seen rushing toward the base following the powerful blasts that were heard across a wide radius.

Gunshots fired from sophisticated weapons were also heard following the blasts.

--------------------------
P3 C orion plane was hit by blast at PNS Mehran. (according to GEO)


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## ANG

Hi, a P-3C Orion has been destroyed in the terrorist attack.


/***************************************/
Four dead in PNS Mehran attack: news agency

Four dead in PNS Mehran attack:

KARACHI: Four people were killed in an armed attack Sunday by terrorists on PNS Mehran, a heavily guarded base of Pakistan Navy, located along Sharea Faisal, according to a foreign news agency. 

TV images showed flames rising in the air from PNS Mehran where terrorists blew up a US made P-3C Orion plane of Pakistan Navy.

Five injured in the incident were shifted to a local hospital.

Additional personnel of security forces were also seen moving inside PNS Mehran.

Electricity of the entire area has also been shut down.

Earlier, four blasts were reported from the area near PAF base Faisal.

Ambulances and fire tenders were seen rushing toward the base following the powerful blasts that were heard across a wide radius.

Gunshots fired from sophisticated weapons were also heard following the blasts.

It is pertinent to mention here that in the previous weeks three buses of Pakistan Navy had been attacked by terrorists in the metropolitan city of Karachi.


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## mautkimaut

Didnt access net the entire day.and this is the first thing I came across when came online.So any group claimed responsibility?


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## S.M.R

KARACHI: Four people were killed in an armed attack Sunday by terrorists on PNS Mehran, a heavily guarded base of Pakistan Navy, located along Sharea Faisal, according to a foreign news agency. 

TV images showed flames rising in the air from PNS Mehran where terrorists blew up a US made four-engine P-3C Orion plane of Pakistan Navy.

Five injured in the incident were shifted to a local hospital.


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## Evil Flare

where is old thread ??

got deleted ?


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## alibaz

*Four people have been killed as unknown assailants attacked Pakistan Naval Station Mehran.*

According to sources, around 10 terrorists stormed into the PNS Mehran building. They exploded 5 bombs and opened indiscriminate firing. Pakistan Naval commandoes have started backlash against the attackers.

Law enforcement agencies and rescue teams have arrived at the scene and state of emergency has been declared in all Karachi hospitals.

It is pertinent to mention here that the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf is staging a sit-in in Karachi at Netty Jetty Bridge. A large number of PTI workers along with PTI Chief Imran Khan are participating in the sit-in against the US drone attacks in the tribal areas of Pakistan.

Dunya News: Pakistan:-Karachi: Four killed as terrorists attack PNS Mehran


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## DelhiDareDevil

anyone got a picture of how the pns mehran originally looks like?


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## alibaz

Some channels are airing news about killing of some four foreigners. Any news, confirmation?


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## Spring Onion

where is the old thread 
what the hell is wrong with admins here??

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## T-Faz

Aamir Zia said:


> where is old thread ??
> 
> got deleted ?


 
I cant find the old thread, it doesn't exist anymore.

Hmmm, very odd.

It just vanished without any trace what so ever.


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## praveen007

where is the old thread.
Is it got deleted
admin please answer this question.
Why i am not able to access the old thread


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## Spring Onion

alibaz said:


> Some channels are airing news about killing of some four foreigners. Any news, confirmation?


 
not confirmed by Chinese engineers might had been killed by these terrorists


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## Ajaxpaul

why was the old thread taken off? closed for moderation?? What??


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## muse

T-Faz

Are you now sort of kind of following what I have been trying to say to you about who and what??


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## jha

Yes..Old thread got deleted perhaps..


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## Geronimo2011

where did the big thread about this go??


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## Elmo

Jana said:


> where is the old thread
> what the hell is wrong with admins here??


 
You might want to watch out for your language.

I don't know where it is. Trying to find it. Be patient.


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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> I cant find the old thread, it doesn't exist anymore.
> 
> Hmmm, very odd.
> 
> It just vanished without any trace what so ever.


 zia cant delete it from his grave.

and server is US OF A


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## DESERT FIGHTER

the old thread was closed by some mod........ same old notify the moderator message.


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## waz

The terrorists have now taken hostages. Six of them have been killed and one has been captured.


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## Evil Flare

12:09am
American teams were working on the plane which came under attack.
P3C Orion is the name of the plane. It is a four-engine turboprop anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft.
Twitter response:
beenasarwar @thekarachikid Easy to blame govt, when its the security establishment that needs to change paradigm, & strategy.
sharmeenochinoy Just spoke 2 ppl on sharae Faisal still blocked- ppl being advised to go thru alternate routes #karachiattacks
Razarumi Vulnerabilities of Pakistani security agencies being exploited by terrorists. What a shame! #Pakistan v@ShabbirShah
12:05am
Ahmed Jung reporting for Express 24/7 a hunt for terrorists is on going inside the base. Fire fighters have managed to get the fire under control.
A specific plane inside the base may have been a target.


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## Mr.Ryu

US personals were in P-3 when the attack took place may be its targeted against them or just a coincidence But where is old thread


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## S.M.R

I was just there, passed though PNS Mehran, one side road was blocked for traffic. Smoke cloud seen, lots of Army Commandos, Navy Marines, Rangers, Police, Ambulances were there. and Off course Media vehicles.


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## Evil Flare

American teams were working on the plane which came under attack.



See .... someone from inside is involved ..

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## Roby

American teams were working on the plane which came under attack.


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## T-Faz

Jana said:


> zia cant delete it from his grave.
> 
> and server is US OF A


 
Zia ke bache to kar sakte hain na.

US & A were very close partners of his.


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## Leader

waz said:


> The terrorists have now taken hostages. Six of them have been killed and one has been captured.


 
what ? hostages? ???? who ?


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## Evil Flare

12:18am
Sources say that the initial target of the terrorists was the P3C Orion plane. The plane has reportedly been destroyed.
AFP updates  Its a terrorist attack. More than 10 terrorists are inside. They have attacked a navy air station located in a Pakistan Air Force base, said provincial home ministry official Sharfuddin Memon.
One of the four aircraft inside the premises has been damaged, he added.


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## Najam Khan

They attack the maintenance portion of the base, where US were working.


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## Dance

According to BBC one of the people killed was apparently a US serviceman


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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> Zia ke bache to kar sakte hain na.
> 
> US & A were very close partners of his.


 wo thread kaisay delete kar saktay hain yara.
*
come on that thread had alot of information minute details . *


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## Jackdaws

Have there been any civilians deaths? I hope not.


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## SSGPA1

Thank God I didn't send my email to mods  Sometimes I think like Zaid Hamid, conspiracies galore haha


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## junaid_mt




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## Hammy007

confirm CIA is involved, they are trained, well informed and maybe they have good techs with them, maybe american cammandos are involed in it


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## Evil Flare

Admin should investigate the matter about vanishing of thread .. also look into moving to another server .


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## junaid_mt

Updated at: 2356 PST, Sunday, May 22, 2011
Four dead in PNS Mehran attack: news agency KARACHI: Four people were killed in an armed attack Sunday by terrorists on PNS Mehran, a heavily guarded base of Pakistan Navy, located along Sharea Faisal, according to a foreign news agency.

TV images showed flames rising in the air from PNS Mehran where terrorists blew up a US made four-engine P-3C Orion plane of Pakistan Navy.

Five injured in the incident were shifted to a local hospital.

Additional personnel of security forces were also seen moving inside PNS Mehran.

Electricity of the entire area has also been shut down.

Earlier, four blasts were reported from the area near PAF base Faisal.

Ambulances and fire tenders were seen rushing toward the base following the powerful blasts that were heard across a wide radius.

Gunshots fired from sophisticated weapons were also heard following the blasts.

It is pertinent to mention here that in the previous weeks three buses of Pakistan Navy had been attacked by terrorists in the metropolitan city of Karachi.

Four dead in PNS Mehran attack: news agency - GEO.tv


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## Evil Flare

Hammy007 said:


> confirm CIA is involved, they are trained, well informed and maybe they have good techs with them, maybe american cammandos are involed in it


 

prove it first .... We have a habit of blaming everything on others to hide our own incompetency

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## Patriot

According to News - 3 P3C are gone.


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## Hammy007

Aamir Zia said:


> prove it first .... We have a habit of blaming everything on others to hide our own incompetency


 
then how can ill trained taliban militants take professionals hostages??, they have killed 3 marines and only one terrorist is dead


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## Evil Flare

when such a sensitive places are not safe then what about poor population ?

---------- Post added at 12:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------




Hammy007 said:


> then how can ill trained taliban militants take professionals hostages??, they have killed 3 marines and only one terrorist is dead


 
they don't do this first time .. you can check their records if you want to ? remember attack on GHQ ?


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## S-A-B-E-R->

another blast guys


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## T-Faz

Forget the old thread, its gone.

I do not know what happened, the webmaster will have to clarify the matter.

Please carry on here.


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## Evil Flare

Hammy007 said:


> then how can ill trained taliban militants take professionals hostages??, they have killed 3 marines and only one terrorist is dead


 
We need a complete re haul of our intelligence agencies


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## farhan_9909

omg 3 p3c.


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## T-Faz

The foreigners are possibly American servicemen.

They could be a part of the technical team.

Another bomb goes off.


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## Dance

Apparently another blast was heard?


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## Hammy007

there are hundreds of rangers present outside, woow!!!


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## majesticpankaj

Hammy007 said:


> then how can ill trained taliban militants take professionals hostages??, they have killed 3 marines and only one terrorist is dead


 
they won't put in danger their commandos for that.......... u need to see the objectives of the attack rather than speculating about it


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## DelhiDareDevil

Patriot said:


> According to News - 3 P3C are gone.


 
What? dissappered?

It can be repaired.


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## T-Faz

Hammy007 said:


> i think elmo has deleted the thread


 
If she did, I can still see the thread.

But its nowhere to be found.


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## Hammy007

farhan_9909 said:


> omg 3 p3c.


 
werent other planes present except these planes??


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## S.M.R

4 foreigners are dead, PN.


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## Dance

Rehman Malik on his way to Karachi


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## jha

Patriot said:


> According to News - 3 P3C are gone.


 
THREE....? ... PN has ~10 ORIONs...


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## Hammy007

T-Faz said:


> If she did, I can still see the thread.
> 
> But it nowhere to be found.


 
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

---------- Post added at 08:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:34 PM ----------




Dance said:


> Rehman Malik on his way to Karachi


 
ooohh please no!!, karachi is a good place, not a place for rehman guy


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## CallsignAlzaeem

Punishment for not doing an operation in North Waziristan.China announced a naval base at Gwadar today in the morning and now we have got the reply from you know who.


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## Evil Flare

Hammy007 said:


> there are hundreds of rangers present outside, woow!!!


 
Clarify this

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## Meengla

Today's Dawn.com has a Wiki Leak ticker about how a few Gulf Arab states' rich people sponsor 'charity' and certain a brand of Islam (Deobandi/Wahabbi). It is said in that report that southern Punjab (Bahalpur etc) have madrassahs were there is some kind of tiered system to recruit young people for various causes. One of the causes is for sacrifice for Islam. The going rate is Rs. 500,000 to be paid to the parents of the young deads; that's less than $20k PPP adjusted. No much for any foreign or local agencies to pay.
And that has been happening in broad day light. And happening in the heartland of Pakistan.
Any investigative journalist can get to the bottom of this and prove it as truth or lies.
Blame foreigners all we want but it is our own tolerance of the jihadi factories which makes it possible for such attacks like in Karachi. I am pretty sure foreign agencies don't recruit agents from their own countries to do suicide bombings on routine.
Pakistan really needs to make peace with India. That is the bottom line if we want Pakistan to survive. Even 500 more free JF-17 will be destroyed if there is internal support/tolerance for these religious fundamentalist. 

*I can understand that Pakistani security agencies are truly over-stretched. They can't open all the fronts at the same time. They are indeed giving great sacrifices. But the Parliament of Pakistan is not over-stretched and the Parliament needs to radically redirect changes in foreign policy.*

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## Patriot

3 PC3 Orion gone, along with some helicopters according to Media.


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## Hammy007

osama death and this terrorism doesnt make sense


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## Patriot

Its the usual, start with CIA, RAW, Mossad, then foreigners, then Uzbesk, then Pashtun TTP members and then finally you find out they were the local Urban dwelling chaps from Punjab or Sind. Height of cluelessness and incompetence.

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## majesticpankaj

muse said:


> These so called armed forces cannot protect themselves, you really think they will protect you or your property? Failure after epic failure, how come?? Could it be that the problem is that all branches of the armed forces have been penetrated by islamists and their sympathizers??
> 
> Well, that is a truth the armed forces of Pakistan know but do not want you or the international media to know -- otherwise it's goodbye nuclear weapons


 
Sir, i think it is basically the failure of intelligence not the failure of security forces..terrorist will alway have the upper hand because element of surprise..


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## S.M.R

woooohoooo.....6 terrorists are dead, due to Commandos Operation.

Bravo


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## SQ8

the orions are a very strategic target..
the TTP and their likes usually like and prefer to hit soft targets..
this is a step beyond what they do..
what good does denial of maratime surveillance do to the TTP?
the orion is a threat for ..lets say an attack via the sea by small infiltration craft..
or a deterrent againt a SSBN.. or maybe a SSGN along the coast..

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## Hammy007

Aamir Zia said:


> Clarify this


 
intense of operation, havent seen so much personell in a anti terror op, these are just rangers, others like marines, police etc etc


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## Evil Flare

12:28am
Terrorists used rockets in the attack confirm reports.
Firing is continuing inside the base sporadically, says Tribune reporter Faraz Khan. However, he says there has been no new blasts as reported elsewhere in the media.
Army commandos are on the spot.
Twitter response:
AdilNajam Situation ongoing. Coordinated attacks already being called Mumbai-style some suspect there may be hostages
needroos Respect to all security personnel, military, rangers, police, ambulance and firefighters facing the ongoing #Karachi attack


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## Ahmad

Aamir Zia said:


> where is old thread ??
> 
> got deleted ?


 
Hope your family is OK, you mentioned something about them i the old thread, but PDF went down and i cant see it anymore.


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## Peregrine

How did the terrorists enter the airbase? its definitely a security lapse


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## Hammy007

Patriot said:


> Its the usual, start with CIA, RAW, Mossad, then foreigners, then Uzbesk, then Pashtun TTP members and then finally you find out they were the local Urban dwelling chaps from Punjab or Sind. Height of cluelessness and incompetence.


 
where r u living dude, media usually declares them to be talibans


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## Dance

Aamir Zia said:


> needroos Respect to all security personnel, military, rangers, police, ambulance and firefighters facing the ongoing #Karachi attack


 
So true! Pray for their safety


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## S.M.R

Peregrine said:


> How did the terrorists enter the airbase? its definitely a security lapse


 
They entered from the PAF museum Side.


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## Evil Flare

Ahmad said:


> Hope your family is OK, you mentioned something about them i the old thread, but PDF went down and i cant see it anymore.


 
Yes my sister & her husband with their 2 kids were there & left on 10 PM

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## Hammy007

this is nothing like mumbai attacks, are you kidding


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## Dance

Dawn reporting operation over


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## Peregrine

Terrorists used rockets in the attack confirm reports.Firing is continuing inside the base sporadically, says Tribune reporter


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## Areesh

Dance said:


> Rehman Malik on his way to Karachi


 
Fcuk him. 

Why is he coming to Karachi???


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## American Pakistani

ANY VIDEOS WILL BE APPRICIATED PLEASE.

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## VelocuR

What kind of security of Pakistan is, next probably attack is F-16s, JF-17s, etc !!

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## Dance

Areesh said:


> Fcuk him.
> 
> Why is he coming to Karachi???


 
To give out stupid statements and try to cover up the fact that his government is useless and retarded


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## Bail_Gadi_Driver

media houses are saying that ... how terrorist knew that time when people will be upgrading P-3 ORION ....and at the same time they launched their attack.... wow.....inside job......someone is leaking the armed force news to these f**king terrorist .....and amercians were working ....on that plan....


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## kingkobra

Peregrine said:


> Terrorists used rockets in the attack confirm reports.Firing is continuing inside the base sporadically, says Tribune reporter


 
rocket launchers?
i dont think its easy to take them in from outside..


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## kugga

why Talibans are against P3C Orions ?? 

I can't understand the reason behind this attack if I assume that these terrorists were taliban... Taliban mostly target areas of army or populated areas.. Navy has nothing to do with taliban they why they are attacking it ??

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## Evil Flare

Peregrine said:


> Terrorists used rockets in the attack confirm reports.Firing is continuing inside the base sporadically, says Tribune reporter


 
How can they bring fcuking Rockets inside this safe locations ...


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## Bail_Gadi_Driver

> ANY VIDEOS WILL BE APPRICIATED PLEASE.



NDTV 24x7: Live TV - Watch Live TV Free - Free Live TV on NDTV


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## Areesh

Dance said:


> To give out stupid statements and try to cover up the fact that his government is useless and retarded


 
I simply hate this guy. Pathetic. Wonder when Pakistan can get rid of him and hussain haqqani???


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## Evil Flare




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## American Pakistani

Areesh said:


> Fcuk him.
> 
> Why is he coming to Karachi???


 
Karachi walon k zakhmon per mazeed namak chiraknay.

BTW Is the operation over or not.


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## kugga

I got the news that these terrorists went into the base through PAF museum. PAF museum is open for civilians and it is attached to the base


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## Hammy007

Bail_Gadi_Driver said:


> media houses are saying that ... how terrorist knew that time when people will be upgrading P-3 ORION ....and at the same time they launched their attack.... wow.....inside job......someone is leaking the armed force news to these f**king terrorist .....and amercians were working ....on that plan....


 
maybe those americans leaked the info, americans can be killed in american embassy


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## desiman

RaptorRX707 said:


> What kind of security of Pakistan is, next probably attack is F-16s, JF-17s, etc !!


 
*can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*

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## lionheart1

Dance said:


> To give out stupid statements and try to cover up the fact that his government is useless and retarded


 
according to you politician should protect air bases .. then what is the job of the armed forces


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## T-Faz

This is a major security failure, once again the security forces and our intelligence services have been put in a spot where they were incapable of handling the situation. Unfortunately all our capabilities are focused towards our neighbor for conventional warfare, until and unless we realize that the enemy is within, we will continue to see such attacks and destruction.

There is a serious requirement for cleansing the cities of these terrorists, Madrassa's, religious parties and their outlets have to be either closed down or monitored. The Arab funding of these terrorists and their religious backing has become a truly menacing problem that will kill this nation if no one deals with this problem.

PA clearly did not learn from the earlier attacks on the GHQ and other military installments.

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## cheekybird

what the hell is going on in our country.


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## CallsignAlzaeem

RaptorRX707 said:


> What kind of security of Pakistan is, next probably attack is F-16s, JF-17s, etc !!


 
I request all the terrorists,Please we are already bankcrupt and trying to survive on Block 15 and thunder,Hath hola rakhyo.


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## RAZA SAHI

this is BIG. what concerns me the most is the logistical support provided to these bastards. this is clearly an intelligence failure.


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## *Awan*

This terror attack is beyond the capacity of ttp.
revenge of obl is just cover.this type of attack can't be carry out with out very sophisticated planning and inside info.so we should kick all american out of Pak.
How the hell ttp come to know that fc people are going home after completion of their traning (referring to shab qadar)
first there is killing of saudi consulate member and now orions are get destroyed.
people we want revenge.why an israeli ambassador not get killed in india.

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## FreekiN

I think it's an Al Qaeda attack. I dont think TTP has ever done anything of this calibre.


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## Peregrine

News Update. Terrorists entered from the back of the base, say sources. They had information regarding what aircrafts were inside. The attack was well planned.


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## S.M.R

RaptorRX707 said:


> What kind of security of Pakistan is, next probably attack is F-16s, JF-17s, etc !!


 
Yes, security lapse is there, but where fighter jets are being kept is very high secure Area. Be noted, they have attacked the Navy area.


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## Areesh

lionheart1 said:


> according to you politician should protect air bases .. then what is the job of the armed forces


 
That mofo is not only a politician. He is also an interior minister. If we shouldn't blame him than who else.


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## Dance

Areesh said:


> I simply hate this guy. Pathetic. Wonder when Pakistan can get rid of him and hussain haqqani???


 
When people in Pakistan finally stand up for themselves. Whats going to happen is that people will condemn the attack, try to blame one another, and then forget about it until something like this happens again. Until Pakistanis ask people like rehman malik to resign and stand up and say enough is enough the cycle will keep going on and on.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
Did the terrorists fly away with the P3's? 

No? So I don't think the security of the Nuclear assets is a concern. At most a terrorist attack could only replicate what has happened at GHQ and this base - some hostages and/or deaths, with the terrorists eliminated at the end.

These are suicide missions for the most part for these people.

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## WAQAS119

desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
Ah...! legendary *Desiman* is back with his obsession of Pakistan. A member, who rarely posts on threads related to India but is present on Pakistan related threads --- Really a perfect example of obsession.

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## kugga

T-Faz said:


> This is a major security failure, once again the security forces and our intelligence services have been put in a spot where they were incapable of handling the situation. Unfortunately all our capabilities are focused towards our neighbor for conventional warfare, until and unless we realize that the enemy is within, we will continue to see such attacks and destruction.
> 
> There is a serious requirement for cleansing the cities of these terrorists, *Madrassa's, religious parties and their outlets have to be either closed down or monitored*. The Arab funding of these terrorists and their religious backing has become a truly menacing problem that will kill this nation if no one deals with this problem.
> 
> PA clearly did not learn from the earlier attacks on the GHQ and other military installments.


 
genious boy just think before you write.. not all your assumptions and media's assumptions are always true madrassas and Religious parties are there before terrorism was there and before even paskitan was there... They are not the cause to find the cause monitor the money transfers and strict the rules for buying arms.

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## Evil Flare

12:45am

Terrorists entered from the back of the base, say sources. They had information regarding what aircrafts were inside. The attack was well planned.
Earlier reports that Americans were present when terrorists targeted P3C Orion plane have been refuted by a US Embassy spokesman.

Twitter response:
husainhaqqani R prayers & support for victims of todays tragedy at PNS Mehran. R resolve 2 defeat terrorists must endure
mirza9 If there was no inside help on getting militants inside, they had to be given intel on the plane,location and maintenance schedule. #karachi
cyalm Id rather have the delusional Rapture folks than the delusional folks here who cant see the enemy within


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## T-Faz

Peregrine said:


> News Update. Terrorists entered from the back of the base, say sources. They had information regarding what aircrafts were inside. The attack was well planned.


 
Of course they did, apparently they knew when the hangers will be open and where the exact location of these aircrafts.

We all know that there are terrorist sympathizers in the military and we know they help the terrorists.

Its all very clear, we must focus on these people because they will kill us and this nation.

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## Evil Flare

Fcuking strange .. even Indian media is covering the incident & CNN & BBC don't . even after 2 hours . or they were told in advance not to ?

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## CallsignAlzaeem

Now a golden opportunity for international media and india to question the security of Pakistan,s nuclear assets,I bet this is going to be the next big argument.

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## Ajaxpaul

Hammy007 said:


> maybe those americans leaked the info, americans can be killed in american embassy


 
What type of statement is this ?...i know its a sensitive time. But Please, it makes a lunatic impression.

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## Peregrine

News Update. Fire has spread to three locations confirms Ahmed Jung reporting for Express 24/7. Fire is still visible where the terrorists first attacked.Special forces including Army personnel and CID police have arrived to fight the terrorists inside the base.Earlier reports that Americans were present when terrorists targeted P3C Orion plane have been refuted by a US Embassy spokesman.

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## Dance

desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
It was a matter of time before some indian opened their mouth and tried to score cheap points, a matter of time.


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## pakdefender

just heard on ARY , one injured terrorist has been captured alive

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## S.M.R

What the hell intelligence agencies were doing, after GHQ attacks, it is similar type of Attack, that Terrorists were in Security forces Uniform. They should have at least made a security plan to counter such kind of attack.

First time is called Security Failure, for onwards it is called BLUNDER.


Side News: Zardari has taken 'Sakht' wala notice.

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## RAZA SAHI

so far it's been an intelligence failure & a security failure, I pray it's not an operational failure. I hope the special forces would clear this place as soon as possible & as effectively as possible, I am praying for the guys involved in the clear out operation.


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## Devil Soul

GEO is reporting that 6 terrorists have been killed 4 arrested

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## Hammy007

CallsignAlzaeem said:


> Now a golden opportunity for international media and india to question the security of Pakistan,s nuclear assets,I bet this is going to be the next big argument.


 
if the cia knows better than even the raw about india, then how can you say your nukes are safe from cia???


----------



## ramu

Nomi965 said:


> This terror attack is beyond the capacity of ttp.
> revenge of obl is just cover.this type of attack can't be carry out with out very sophisticated planning and inside info.so we should kick all american out of Pak.
> How the hell ttp come to know that fc people are going home after completion of their traning (referring to shab qadar)
> first there is killing of saudi consulate member and now orions are get destroyed.
> people we want revenge.*why an israeli ambassador not get killed in india.*



Not called for ... Why bring Israel or India instead of bringing up the incompetence of the security establishment in letting this happen?

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## VelocuR

kugga said:


> I got the news that these terrorists went into the base through PAF museum. PAF museum is open for civilians and it is attached to the base











desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
What's your concern? Sorry I can't hear you.....Do you have any history attack on nuclear establishments which is very high security? Again, I feel it is not guarantee the safety, high chance ww3.


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## desiman

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Did the terrorists fly away with the P3's?
> 
> No? So I don't think the security of the Nuclear assets is a concern. At most a terrorist attack could only replicate what has happened at GHQ and this base - some hostages and/or deaths, with the terrorists eliminated at the end.
> 
> These are suicide missions for the most part for these people.


 

cant really buy that argument, an attach of such a nature on a nuclear base can be disastrous, the same blast that took out the Orion plane could easily take out the cooling measures in nuclear plant causing severe fallout or even a big blast. Insiders were involved in this attack for sure, passing inside info to the terrorist, who can guarantee that such info about nuclear establishments is not passed onto terror outfits ? Pakistan has to answer some serious questions, its obvious now that nothing is safe in the country.

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## Evil Flare

Dance said:


> It was a matter of time before some indian opened their mouth and tried to score cheap points, a matter of time.


 
He is rite considering the pathetic condition of our intelligence agencies .

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## Patriot

Nobody gives a $hit what you think desiman.Get the f@uk outta here.

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## ramu

CallsignAlzaeem said:


> Now a golden opportunity for international media and india to question the security of Pakistan,s nuclear assets,I bet this is going to be the next big argument.


 
hand on heart ....
Do you think Pakistan's weapons are safe ?


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## Areesh

Dance said:


> When people in Pakistan finally stand up for themselves. Whats going to happen is that people will condemn the attack, try to blame one another, and then forget about it until something like this happens again. Until Pakistanis ask people like rehman malik to resign and stand up and say enough is enough the cycle will keep going on and on.


 
Well Pakistanis have consider it as their fate and thus tolerate all this sh!t. They are confused. The seculars will keep blaming every person with the beard for all this mess and the religious guys and maulivis will keep blaming America for this. The fact is if we get out of this blaming cr@p and start working to sort out the blunders that are responsible for such attacks we can avoid such attacks.

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## Ahmad

Nomi965 said:


> This terror attack is beyond the capacity of ttp.
> revenge of obl is just cover.this type of attack can't be carry out with out very sophisticated planning and inside info.so we should kick all american out of Pak.
> How the hell ttp come to know that fc people are going home after completion of their traning (referring to shab qadar)
> first there is killing of saudi consulate member and now orions are get destroyed.
> people we want revenge.why an israeli ambassador not get killed in india.


 
Sweet dreams buddy. Denial wont help you.

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## lionheart1

WAQAS119 said:


> Ah...! legendary *Desiman* is back with his obsession of Pakistan. A member, who rarely posts on threads related to India but is present on Pakistan related threads --- Really a perfect example of obsession.


 
if you cant answer him logically .... indulge in personal attack....... see your police chief instead of controlling the situation .... he his giving interview to NDTV(indian news channel)

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## Hammy007

desiman said:


> cant really buy that argument, an attach of such a nature on a nuclear base can be disastrous, the same blast that took out the Orion plane could easily take out the cooling measures in nuclear plant causing severe fallout or even a big blast. Insiders were involved in this attack for sure, passing inside info to the terrorist, who can guarantee that such info about nuclear establishments is not passed onto terror outfits ? Pakistan has to answer some serious questions, its obvious now that nothing is safe in the country.


 
:facepalm:.............


----------



## desiman

WAQAS119 said:


> Ah...! legendary *Desiman* is back with his obsession of Pakistan. A member, who rarely posts on threads related to India but is present on Pakistan related threads --- Really a perfect example of obsession.


 
I think you need to worry about Pakistan and not a member on a forum. really get your priorities straight, if you cant answer a question dont get personal, it shows that you have nothing to say that blurt out insults.

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## Areesh

Aamir Zia said:


> He is rite considering the pathetic condition of our intelligence agencies .


 
He is talking cr@p. Stop supporting him.


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## VelocuR

*4 terrorists arrested bring to jail.

Let's start this: harsh interrogation !*

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## T-Faz

kugga said:


> genious boy just think before you write.. not all your assumptions and media's assumptions are always true madrassas and Religious parties are there before terrorism was there and before even paskitan was there... They are not the cause to find the cause monitor the money transfers and strict the rules for buying arms.


 
You should think what you write.

These terrorists F@ckers were not there until these religious parties got a lot of power to create militants.

Before the 80's there used to be only a few hundred madrassa's and only a small amount during the creation of Pakistan.

Now there are thousands of Madrassa's where people like these terrorists are brainwashed with Arab funding.

Its all out there in the open but you would never admit to it.

Even in 53 the army had to launch an attack against these 'religious' parties.

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## Nothing

Nomi965 said:


> This terror attack is beyond the capacity of ttp.
> revenge of obl is just cover.this type of attack can't be carry out with out very sophisticated planning and inside info.so we should kick all american out of Pak.
> How the hell ttp come to know that fc people are going home after completion of their traning (referring to shab qadar)
> first there is killing of saudi consulate member and now orions are get destroyed.
> people we want revenge.why an israeli ambassador not get killed in india.


 
are you on weeds ? 

We do secure our assets most of times... pls concentrate on whats going on in Karachi..
RIP to brave security personals. keep politicians away from it.. they will create more mess in area .. as they attract more press and crowd..


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## Water Car Engineer

What the hell is happening in Pakistan? Bad year for you guys..


----------



## Evil Flare

12:50am
Fire has spread to three locations confirms Ahmed Jung reporting for Express 24/7. Fire is still visible where the terrorists first attacked.
Special forces including Army personnel and CID police have arrived to fight the terrorists inside the base.
Earlier reports that Americans were present when terrorists targeted P3C Orion plane have been refuted by a US Embassy spokesman.


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## Ahmad

FreekiN said:


> I think it's an Al Qaeda attack. I dont think TTP has ever done anything of this calibre.


 
they are all bloody the same thing with diffenret names.

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## Evil Flare

Seven explosions and gunfire were heard inside the PAF Museum on Shahrah-e-Faisal Road in Karachi. Towering flames arose from inside the PNS Mehran compound. Eight to 15 terrorists entered the compound suggest initial reports.


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## desiman

Patriot said:


> Nobody gives a $hit what you think desiman.Get the f@uk outta here.


 
post reported, personal attack for no reason, hope such things are taken care of here.


----------



## pak-marine

pakdefender said:


> just heard on ARY , one injured terrorist has been captured alive


 
awsome news , hope he is getting drilled by security forces


----------



## Dance

Aamir Zia said:


> He is rite considering the pathetic condition of our intelligence agencies .


 
He's a well known troller and all he does he spout BS against Pakistan. And looking at some of the replies, I'm not the only one who thinks that


----------



## razgriz19

SSG captured two MOTHERFU****S!!!!

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## desiman

Aamir Zia said:


> He is rite considering the pathetic condition of our intelligence agencies .


 
good to see some logic prevailing here. thanks


----------



## Meengla

@Kugga,
Yes, the madrassah's were always there. Going back hundreds of years in the sub-continent. But, as I posted above, now you can see that a lot of money is flowing into Pakistan to 'hire' suicide bombers.
Whoever did this attack is willing to sacrifice himself. They are suicide bombers. Whether some foreign agency or not is secondary. The most important point is to dig down deeper and see how the foreign or local moneys make it possible to hire these suicide bombers. To quote Musharraf, after the last assassination attempt on him, 'a suicide bomber is like a guided missile. Almost impossible to stop that once one is willing to take his life'.
*Shame on the entire Pakistani society to at least not shut down these jihadi factories. They may 'serve' a purpose against India but then they are for hire and can be used by others to do the same to us. To quote Nietzsche: 'He who fights the devil should see he does not become one. And when you look into an abyss the abyss also looks onto you'.*

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## pakdefender

Capturing alive as many of these bastards is vital at this stage


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## Devil Soul

Thread title needs to be changed from PAF base to PNS


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## S.M.R

desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
Shut the fcuk up. Our nukes are safe. If these attacks would have been in India, your media would be shouting that "Pakistanis have attacked our base".

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## Evil Flare

Areesh said:


> He is talking cr@p. Stop supporting him.


 
then what should i do .. admitted it .. we fail on all sides , Corrupt Politicians , look at the condition of army , agencies always fail ..


----------



## majesticpankaj

Nomi965 said:


> This terror attack is beyond the capacity of ttp.
> revenge of obl is just cover.this type of attack can't be carry out with out very sophisticated planning and inside info.so we should kick all american out of Pak.
> How the hell ttp come to know that fc people are going home after completion of their traning (referring to shab qadar)
> first there is killing of saudi consulate member and now orions are get destroyed.
> people we want revenge.*why an israeli ambassador not get killed in india*.



what is that ?...i didn't get it


----------



## Ganga

Now this is serious.How on earth did they manage to enter a high security facility?This points to a disturbing possibility that there might have been terrorist sympathizers inside the base who facilitated easy access.First the army HQ and now this .Something is seriously wrong somewhere.I just read an article where it was mentioned that some airmen in the PAF have been radicalized so much that they are refusing to shave their beards off even when the senior officers are telling them to do so.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
Yeah they can........... now dig a really deep hole in ur backyard and prepare for a nuke strike frm the taliban.


----------



## Hammy007

one and only


----------



## WAQAS119

Thi is what I posted few days ago, and now both of the examples are active to the sh1t here...!



> WAQAS119 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I am surprised..! Where are those hypocrites that are found mostly on Pakistani threads (mostly such threads) giving us lessons on democracy and liberalism such as *ramu, desiman* and others. This thread is a true example of double face of those obsessed people. I am surely bookmarking it for future reference.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/109639-india-bans-controversial-book-3.html#post1770704
Click to expand...


----------



## Hammy007

one more big explosion heard


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## cheekybird

FreekiN said:


> I think it's an Al Qaeda attack. I dont think TTP has ever done anything of this calibre.


 
attacks of such calibre r pulled off by al-qaeda,as they did in 9/11 .....get my point.dear think beyond al-qaeda


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## FreekiN

You can't just carry a nuke out of a compound....

Access codes... Red card.... allocated trigger...

even with inside help, you'd get nowhere near actually being able to use the thing.

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## desiman

WAQAS119 said:


> Thi is what I posted few days ago, and now both of the examples are active to the sh1t here...!


 
dude i dont live here, I comment on issues that interest me, if you want me to comment on something please shoot me an email. No need to get personal, i did not address you directly.

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## Omar1984

Meengla said:


> @Kugga,
> Yes, the madrassah's were always there. Going back hundreds of years in the sub-continent. But, as I posted above, now you can see that a lot of money is flowing into Pakistan to 'hire' suicide bombers.
> Whoever did this attack is willing to sacrifice himself. They are suicide bombers. Whether some foreign agency or not is secondary. The most important point is to dig down deeper and see how the foreign or local moneys make it possible to hire these suicide bombers. To quote Musharraf, after the last assassination attempt on him, 'a suicide bomber is like a guided missile. Almost impossible to stop that once one is willing to take his life'.
> *Shame on the entire Pakistani society to at least not shut down these jihadi factories. They may 'serve' a purpose against India but then they are for hire and can be used by others to do the same to us. To quote Nietzsche: 'He who fights the devil should see he does not become one. And when you look into an abyss the abyss also looks onto you'.*


 
*And shame on the entire Pakistani society to not shut down the largest network of the most powerful intelligence agency in the world (CIA) inside Pakistan that has conflicting interests with Pakistan in the region.*

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## Devil Soul

Navy just confirmed that P3C Orion is destroyed ...


----------



## RAZA SAHI

What the hell intelligence agencies were doing, after GHQ attacks, it is similar type of Attack, that Terrorists were in Security forces Uniform. They should have at least made a security plan to counter such kind of attack.
@innocentboy

agreed,
someone must have done recce for them, someone would also have provided them with shelter or a place to stay in KARACHI. how could this be missed by the intel services. one thing which has been good so far, is that the decision to clear the place was taken early


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## WAQAS119

desiman said:


> post reported, personal attack for no reason, hope such things are taken care of here.


 
Someone said "Obsession has no limit".


----------



## Ganga

innocentboy said:


> Shut the fcuk up. Our nukes are safe. If these attacks would have been in India, your media would be shouting that "Pakistanis have attacked our base".


 
There is no need of getting so sentimental.What desiman asked is actually very pertinent.If the terrorists can enter a high security military installation , they can easily improvise and target places of higher value.

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## Hammy007

cheekybird said:


> attacks of such calibre r pulled off by al-qaeda,as they did in 9/11 .....get my point.dear think beyond al-qaeda


 
why alquaeda only attack pakistan??


----------



## Patriot

These bloody mother@fuckers have done what Indians could never have done.

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## desiman

WAQAS119 said:


> Someone said "Obsession has no limit".


 
lol most Pakistanis here are more obsessed in getting me than really worrying about Pakistan, w.e. dude im out, take care of your country, you live there I dont.


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## Devil Soul

8th blast @ pns ,


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## majesticpankaj

Patriot said:


> These bloody mother@fuckers have done what Indians could never have done.


 
why we need to ??? I suggest keep ur discussion civil..


----------



## Peregrine

News Update.Tribune reporter Faraz Khan reports another blast in the PAF compound.
Pakistan Navy Spokesman confirms there are no casualties and only two people have been injured so far. He has confirmed that the Pc3 Orion aircraft was attacked.Navy depot and a godown was attacked as well, say initial reports.Firing is continuing inside the PAF base.The fire in the compound has died down substantially.DG PR Navy Irfanul Haq also confirms two injuries in the attack.


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## Patriot

RMS AZAM on PAkdef.info 
*Another P-3C Orion just went up in a ball fire*
Can be seen on Dawn TV as well showing the flames.


----------



## kingkobra

FreekiN said:


> You can't just carry a nuke out of a compound....
> 
> Access codes... Red card.... allocated trigger...
> 
> even with inside help, you'd get nowhere near actually being able to use the thing.


 
question is not about stealing those nukes..even a single blast inside nuclear plant can cause huge damage


----------



## Areesh

desiman said:


> lol most Pakistanis here are more obsessed in getting me than really worrying about Pakistan, w.e. dude im out, take care of your country, you live there I dont.


 
Thanks for deciding not to post more cr@p. We respect you for this.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

desiman said:


> cant really buy that argument, an attach of such a nature on a nuclear base can be disastrous, the same blast that took out the Orion plane could easily take out the cooling measures in nuclear plant causing severe fallout or even a big blast. Insiders were involved in this attack for sure, passing inside info to the terrorist, who can guarantee that such info about nuclear establishments is not passed onto terror outfits ? Pakistan has to answer some serious questions, its obvious now that nothing is safe in the country.



Such a blast cannot take out the entire cooling mechanism of an NPP, since the cooling mechanism is not constructed in the form of a thin metal sheeted aircraft with jet fuel in it parked in the open. In addition, most NPP's have redundancy in their safety mechanisms so it would require a massive bombing (more along the lines of a jumbo jet being flown into a reactor or a fighter jet bombing it) to destroy all safety mechanisms and induce a meltdown.

Your analogy is absurd.

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## Omar1984

Aamir Zia said:


> 12:45am
> 
> Terrorists entered from the back of the base, say sources. They had information regarding what aircrafts were inside. The attack was well planned.
> Earlier reports that Americans were present when terrorists targeted P3C Orion plane have been refuted by a US Embassy spokesman.


 
Its a shame that the military bases in the country are not well-protected like it is in other powerful countries. PAF museum and the entire area should not be open to the public, especially not in Pakistan, a country so famous these days and not for good reasons.

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## ramu

WAQAS119 said:


> Thi is what I posted few days ago, and now both of the examples are active to the sh1t here...!


 
Thanks for honouring me. 

Dawn says the security was tight but 15 - 18 terrorists are calling the shots. The terrorists came and have destroyed 3 aircrafts completely. The aircrafts had full fuel in them helping the fire.

PNS Mehran is highly secured. Several operational aircrafts are parked in the campus. The terrorists are armed and dangerous. P3C, Elvis, Sea king and other aircrafts in harms way.



The anchor claims that the terrorists were sitting behind bushes near the runway inside PNS Mehran.


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## Devil Soul

around 1K security personnel r inside the base & SSG is leading


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## majesticpankaj

Ganga said:


> There is no need of getting so sentimental.What desiman asked is actually very pertinent.If the terrorists can enter a high security military installation , they can easily improvise and target places of higher value.


 
bro... they didn't get the point.. a attack of this caliber on the military base cannot be done without any mole... so there is growing concern that anyone from inside may help the terrorists to get the weapons..


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## Ahmad

Is it over or still going on?


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## mirage 5000

Pakistan's security is now on mercy of terrorists .ISI army navy totally failed .as a whole . i have 0.01% trust on these forces now.

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## S.M.R

Ganga said:


> There is no need of getting so sentimental.What desiman asked is actually very pertinent.If the terrorists can enter a high security military installation , they can easily improvise and target places of higher value.


 
I got his statement in the first instance, there is no need for a translator.


----------



## salmakh84

Another blast heard from PNS Mehran (Karsaz). 5 Foreigners hostage 1 American, 4 PAF Men Killed. 3 Planes destroyed #karachiblast #pakistan (Salma Khan (salmakh84) on Twitter)


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## razgriz19

all of you guyz are stupid..........
desiman is just trying to piss u guyz off!
so stop replying....
and dont bring any other country or religion!


----------



## ares

Hammy007 said:


> why alquaeda only attack pakistan??


 
Well one of the reason could be.. Pakistan has proved to be terrorist safe haven and at the same time an American ally (at least on paper)..so they don't have to go very far to get themselves noticed.


----------



## Evil Flare

12:58am
Tribune reporter Faraz Khan reports another blast in the PAF compound.
Pakistan Navy Spokesman confirms there are no casualties and only two people have been injured so far. He has confirmed that the Pc3 Orion aircraft was attacked.
Navy depot and a godown was attacked as well, say initial reports.
Firing is continuing inside the PAF base.
The fire in the compound has died down substantially.
DG PR Navy Irfanul Haq also confirms two injuries in the attac


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

4 terrorists killed........ 2 arrested.

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## Geronimo2011

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Such a blast cannot take out the entire cooling mechanism of an NPP, since the cooling mechanism is not constructed in the form of a thin metal sheeted aircraft with jet fuel in it parked in the open. In addition, most NPP's have redundancy in their safety mechanisms so it would require a massive bombing (more along the lines of a jumbo jet being flown into a reactor or a fighter jet bombing it) to destroy all safety mechanisms and induce a meltdown.
> 
> Your analogy is absurd.


 
So your logic is that 10-15 terrorists armed with guns and explosives cant do any significant damage inside a nuclear plant.. Ok.. point taken.. :facepalm:


----------



## cheekybird

Hammy007 said:


> why alquaeda only attack pakistan??


 
im not al-qaeda spokeperson dude


----------



## American Pakistani

OMG another blast,....................What's happening.


FAILED SECURITY.
FAILED PASHA & ZARDARI MUST RESIGN IF HE IS NOT BEGHAIRAT.


----------



## WAQAS119

desiman said:


> lol most Pakistanis here are more obsessed in getting me than really worrying about Pakistan, w.e. dude im out, take care of your country, you live there I dont.


 
Are you going to surf any other Pakistan related thread?


----------



## Hammy007

ares said:


> Well one of the reason could be.. Pakistan has proved to be terrorist safe haven and at the same time an American ally (at least on paper)..so they don't have to go very far to get themselves noticed.


 
so a terrorist attack a terrorist safe heaven


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## cheekybird

any videos....


----------



## Hammy007

cheekybird said:


> im not al-qaeda spokeperson dude


 
so stop being one


----------



## ramu

FreekiN said:


> You can't just carry a nuke out of a compound....
> 
> Access codes... Red card.... allocated trigger...
> 
> even with inside help, you'd get nowhere near actually being able to use the thing.


 
Have you heard of the term "dirty" bomb. It is not sophisticated but even a sub kilo ton explosion can flatten several kilo meters.


----------



## T-Faz

The costs of this attack will be monumental, I am livid that once more the terrorists who have internal support have hurt this nation and this will be pushed aside once again.

This country will be left with nothing if it does not change its ideology and challenge these religious monsters who want to destroy it.

All those years of training, hard work and sacrifices, it took the terrorists was a few hours to destroy it all.

Another day this nation must put its head down in shame.

If we do not correct ourselves now, this nation will die.

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## Dance

Areesh said:


> Well Pakistanis have consider it as their fate and thus tolerate all this sh!t. They are confused. The seculars will keep blaming every person with the beard for all this mess and the religious guys and maulivis will keep blaming America for this. The fact is if we get out of this blaming cr@p and start working to sort out the blunders that are responsible for such attacks we can avoid such attacks.


 
Exactly, its time for Pakistanis to get on the same page and defeat these terrorist mofos once and for all. The thing that needs to be changed is at the top ( president, military chief, etc) when the top tier is useless and corrupt then we can't expect the botton tier to be okay ( the people of Pakistan)


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## Devil Soul

1 Naval officer, 1 solider embraced shahadit & 2 r injured


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## Safriz

massive failure if pakistan intelligence and security agencies..I am more than sure this and many other incidents are inside job...
Did somebody hear about that pushtoon politician of Pakistan caught crossing into Indian border? and then coming up with loads of bull , saying that he was on a personal visit,and wanted to go to some shrine....
I think his name is BIllor..or Biloor..But highly suspicious trip..
Most pushtoons don't go to shrines and he is not a religious man who will travel all the way to India for a shrine visit..and with such secrecy..then a car with 5 military stars crosses borders into india..and gets caught..upon investigation from indian border forces..the said car's driver claims that he has been sent to pick up Mr.Biloor..


----------



## FreekiN

4 KILLED 2 CAPTURED BY SSG FORCES

ONE MORE SHOT BUT STILL SHOOTING

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## desiman

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Such a blast cannot take out the entire cooling mechanism of an NPP, since the cooling mechanism is not constructed in the form of a thin metal sheeted aircraft with jet fuel in it parked in the open. In addition, most NPP's have redundancy in their safety mechanisms so it would require a massive bombing (more along the lines of a jumbo jet being flown into a reactor or a fighter jet bombing it) to destroy all safety mechanisms and induce a meltdown.
> 
> Your analogy is absurd.


 
sry im not a expert on nuclear establishments, but I am just raising the questions that im sure Pakistan will have to answer in the coming weeks. While such a meltdown has a small chance, even a similar attack on a nuclear facility will spark worldwide panic in regards to Pakistani nukes regardless of their nature. You dont have to induce a meltdown to induce panic into the world, that will be a good enough excuse for the US as well. Pakistan will be walking a tightrope in the coming weeks/months.


----------



## cheekybird

Hammy007 said:


> so stop being one


 
i never said anything of that sort so plz back off!


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## Hammy007

operation is stopped now


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

T-Faz said:


> Of course they did, apparently they knew when the hangers will be open and where the exact location of these aircrafts.
> 
> We all know that there are terrorist sympathizers in the military and we know they help the terrorists.
> 
> Its all very clear, we must focus on these people because they will kill us and this nation.


It doesn't take a lot of active sympathizers in the military to organize an attack like this. In terms of the layout of the base and the locations of the hangars storing the P3's, all it takes is google earth and one former or active technician at the base to describe the layout and locations of various aircraft housed there.

Lets not build mountains out of molehills in terms of the kind of information required to plan such an attack. Infiltration into the base to execute the attack is a bigger question.

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## Omar1984

T-Faz said:


> The costs of this attack will be monumental, I am livid that once more the terrorists who have internal support have hurt this nation and this will once more be pushed aside.
> 
> *This country will be left with nothing if it does not change its ideology and challenge these religious monsters who want to destroy it.*
> 
> All those years of training, hard work and sacrifices, all it took the terrorists was a few hours to destroy it all.
> 
> Another day this nation must put its head down in shame.
> 
> If we do not correct ourselves now, this nation will die.


 
Its a little more complicated than that. Why are terrorists obsessed about Pakistan Navy? Pakistan can't trust anyone these days, not even countries that say we are friends and allies.

There needs to be more security in Pakistan.


----------



## Patriot

Dawn News says that atleast six personal for armed forces has been killed in the attack .God Bless their souls.


----------



## kugga

looks like the ground is getting ready for attack on Pakistan.. 

May Allah bless us all


----------



## pak4ever

According to Sama TV 

"Operation is stopped now"


----------



## Peregrine

News Update. CID police and Army personnel were inside for an hour, however, CID officials are exiting says Ahmed Jung reporting for Express 24/7.As yet, only fire brigades have been let inside.The identities of the alleged four dead in the attack have not been confirmed.


----------



## Evil Flare

1:10am
CID police and Army personnel were inside for an hour, however, CID officials are exiting says Ahmed Jung reporting for Express 24/7.
As yet, only fire brigades have been let inside.
The identities of the alleged four dead in the attack have not been confirmed.


----------



## Areesh

What Pakistan needs a change in it's external and internal policy. We need a change in our external policy. Enough with supporting drone attacks behind and condemning it in front of the public. All the agreements with USA should be made public. The external policy should be base on only one thing and that is the defense of Pakistan.

Their should be a change in internal policy also. Set up a separate department for the internal security just like USA made after 9-11. Make CID etc etc more professional. Make them more proactive. Their should be more collaboration among all intelligence agencies and the budget for the agencies responsible for internal security should be increased. We need a proper national security council which will look into such issues.


----------



## cheekybird

kugga said:


> looks like the ground is getting ready for attack on Pakistan..
> 
> May Allah bless us all


 
thats da 1st thing that came to my mind


----------



## S.M.R

FreekiN said:


> 4 KILLED 2 CAPTURED BY SSG FORCES
> 
> ONE MORE SHOT BUT STILL SHOOTING


 
*THEY SHOULD PUT GREEN CHILLIS WATER IN HIS AR$E TO FIND OUT HIS REAL CONNECTIONS.*


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

desiman said:


> sry im not a expert on nuclear establishments, but I am just raising the questions that im sure Pakistan will have to answer in the coming weeks. While such a meltdown has a small chance, even a similar attack on a nuclear facility will spark worldwide panic in regards to Pakistani nukes regardless of their nature. You dont have to induce a meltdown to induce panic into the world, that will be a good enough excuse for the US as well. Pakistan will be walking a tightrope in the coming weeks/months.


 
Raising unjustified hysteria over the safety of nuclear infrastructure is a different argument than the one you were initially making about the actual possibility of Pakistan's nuclear assets being unsafe.

Those are two different issues - one is related to propaganda against Pakistan's nuclear assets, and the other deals with the actual safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets. On the latter issue, there is no cause for concern as explained already.

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## AsianLion

American fleet of P3C Orion bought by Pakistan was specifically taken out. Cowardly attack. Blue prints similar to Sri Lankan team attack in Lahore.


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## arsalabbasi

*Sadly another attack on Pak Defence.*

Pakistan Navy Ship PC III Orion Plane Destroyed by Terrorist in Karachi | Pakistani Urdu Newspaper Columns, Articles, Editorials,Top Stories, Corruption Scandals from Pakistan







*It looks like it is the pre-plan game to continue the pressure building at Pakistan to show the world that Pak can't secure its army assets. Now more attacks are possible at military Assets. As a result American Commandos will take control of Sargodha Airbase as well as all atomic places under a sudden operation like Abbot Abad.*


----------



## Patriot

Another blast just heard.Watched it live on Dawn TV.


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## ares

Another blast and more firing!!


----------



## Devil Soul

firing started again after a blast


----------



## Peregrine

What a loss for Pakistan navy.

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## salmakh84

5 Foreigners killed: Sources

Operation still going on


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ramu said:


> Have you heard of the term "dirty" bomb. It is not sophisticated but even a sub kilo ton explosion can flatten several kilo meters.


 
A dirty bomb is nothing like a SubKT explosion.

A dirty bomb uses conventional explosives to disperse radioactive material over a small location - it is not a nuclear explosion. The explosive impact of a 'dirty bomb' is limited to the explosive impact of the conventional explosives used to disperse the radioactive material.

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## ramu

Dawn : Another explosion and more firing.


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## T-Faz

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> It doesn't take a lot of active sympathizers in the military to organize an attack like this. In terms of the layout of the base and the locations of the hangars storing the P3's, all it takes is google earth and one former or active technician at the base to describe the layout and locations of various aircraft housed there.
> 
> Lets not build mountains out of molehills in terms of the kind of information required to plan such an attack. Infiltration into the base to execute the attack is a bigger question.


 
Its not as simple as planning the attack through the use of Google Maps, if you know the area, you will find out that access to these particular hangers can be quite tricky as there are a number of obtrusion in place.

There is clear internal support that allows this to occur, the base that was attacked today is always secure and under constant surveillance. However there are certain times that the security is a little lax but one cannot know that information as it is always kept secret.

We have incurred 100's of millions of dollars in damage today, I am sure that it cannot be so simple to execute this without any internal support.

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## WAQAS119

desiman said:


> sry im not a expert on nuclear establishments, but I am just raising the questions that im sure Pakistan will have to answer in the coming weeks. While such a meltdown has a small chance, even a similar attack on a nuclear facility will spark worldwide panic in regards to Pakistani nukes regardless of their nature. You dont have to induce a meltdown to induce panic into the world, that will be a good enough excuse for the US as well. Pakistan will be walking a tightrope in the coming weeks/months.


 
I think you are employed to raise questions on Pakistan togather with hushing out all question on India...! Amazing.


----------



## FreekiN

NORTH WAZIRISTAN - THE FINAL BATTLE

THIS IS THE CALLING.


----------



## mirage 5000

American Pakistani said:


> OMG another blast,....................What's happening.
> 
> 
> FAILED SECURITY.
> FAILED PASHA & ZARDARI MUST RESIGN IF HE IS NOT BEGHAIRAT.



still you have any Doubt????????????


----------



## Devil Soul

innocentboy said:


> *THEY SHOULD PUT GREEN CHILLIS WATER IN HIS AR$E TO FIND OUT HIS REAL CONNECTIONS.*


 
why jus green chilly??? fill that chilly with salt & Vinegar


----------



## Hammy007

FreekiN said:


> NORTH WAZIRISTAN - THE FINAL BATTLE
> 
> THIS IS THE CALLING.


 
ask your american buddies like raymiond davis to fight there, he likes to kill too


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

6 Navy sailors martyred.... Another blast heard.

10-12 bastards..........armed with rocket launchers....

3 hangers on fire.......... Some sources say 3 aircrafts destroyed.


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## Ganga

Apparently some 20 guys attacked.People here are saying that 4 have been killed and two arrested.So that leaves us with another 14 of them who are still alive.Are there ships stationed there?Some people in another forum are saying that a ship has also been destroyed.


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## Areesh

FreekiN said:


> NORTH WAZIRISTAN - THE FINAL BATTLE
> 
> THIS IS THE CALLING.


 
No this is no the calling. The calling is that we should now start working for Pakistan after years of service to foreign powers like USA.

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## WAQAS119

FreekiN said:


> NORTH WAZIRISTAN - THE FINAL BATTLE
> 
> THIS IS THE CALLING.


 
Who is calling for it? Americans?

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## Omar1984

FreekiN said:


> NORTH WAZIRISTAN - THE FINAL BATTLE
> 
> THIS IS THE CALLING.


 
Then be prepared for routine bomb blasts in Lahore and other modern cities in Pakistan like when army started the South Waziristan and Swat operations.

May Allah save Pakistan. Ameen.


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## arsalabbasi

Sadly another attack on Pak Defence.

Pakistan Navy Ship PC III Orion Plane Destroyed by Terrorist in Karachi | Pakistani Urdu Newspaper Columns, Articles, Editorials,Top Stories, Corruption Scandals from Pakistan








It looks like it is the pre-plan game to continue the pressure building at Pakistan to show the world that Pak can't secure its army assets. Now more attacks are possible at military Assets. As a result American Commandos will take control of Sargodha Airbase as well as all atomic places under a sudden operation like Abbot Abad.

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## shining eyes

9 Terrorist killed and 4 arrested in PNS mehran Attack : Sources

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## pakdefender

A question that somes to mind is why target the navy I mean why are these people targeting anti-submarine aircrafts?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Geronimo2011 said:


> So your logic is that 10-15 terrorists armed with guns and explosives cant do any significant damage inside a nuclear plant.. Ok.. point taken.. :facepalm:


 
No they can't - unless allowed free reign of the Nuclear Plant for several hours in order to plant explosives at all necessary locations and then successfully detonate them.

In an attack like this, they would only be able to cause some damage to equipment and infrastructure before being killed. They simply would not have the time or free reign to do what is necessary - this isn't a Hollywood movie.

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## Evil Flare

1:15am
A 10th explosion has been reported on the PAF base by Tribune reporter Faraz Khan.
President Asif Ali Zardari has condemned the attack.
Twitter response:
fispahani RT @Ali_Abbas_Zaidi: I repeat: This comes directly from victims. Blood needed in PNS Rahat
OmarWaraich PNS Mehran received two P-3C Orions from the US in June 2010:U.S. Central Command | Pakistan navy inducts two U.S.-provided maritime patrol planes


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## Ahmad

salmakh84 said:


> 5 Foreigners killed: Sources
> 
> Operation still going on


 
operation or terrorist attack? hell, it has lasted for a few hours now.


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## Devil Soul

All air bases located @ Karachi are sealed off....


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## Evil Flare

Ten explosions and gunfire heard inside the PAF Museum on Shahrah-e-Faisal Road in Karachi. Towering flames arose from inside the PNS Mehran compound. Eight to 15 terrorists entered the compound suggest initial reports.


----------



## rickshaw driver

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Such a blast cannot take out the entire cooling mechanism of an NPP, since the cooling mechanism is not constructed in the form of a thin metal sheeted aircraft with jet fuel in it parked in the open. In addition, most NPP's have redundancy in their safety mechanisms so it would require a massive bombing (more along the lines of a jumbo jet being flown into a reactor or a fighter jet bombing it) to destroy all safety mechanisms and induce a meltdown.
> 
> Your analogy is absurd.



ban him instead of giving him explanations.....its indians like him who make people say bad things about gandhi


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## salmakh84

Ahmad said:


> operation or terrorist attack? hell, it has lasted for a few hours now.


 
If you look at it from Army's point of view: Operation by Pak Army against terrorist
If you look at it from Mujahideens point of view: Fidayee Hamla against Allies of America.
If you look at it from India's point of view: Oh yeah!
If you look at it from America's point of view: Hmmm, Pakistan should do MORE.


----------



## FreekiN

Omar1984 said:


> Then be prepared for routine bomb blasts in Lahore and other modern cities in Pakistan like when army started the South Waziristan and Swat operations.
> 
> May Allah save Pakistan. Ameen.


 
They are already routine. *If you do not cut off the cancer, it will spread and devour you. *

North waziristan will either make them or *BREAK* them. 

Enough is enough. Killing the cancer is the only cure. Imran Khan's slow as fcuk plans will never assemble and in the meantime they will have enough time to regroup and get stronger.


----------



## Geronimo2011

AsianUnion said:


> American fleet of P3C Orion bought by Pakistan was specifically taken out. Cowardly attack. Blue prints similar to Sri Lankan team attack in Lahore.


 
and to the LeT attack in Mumbai .. :|


----------



## Dance

Aamir Zia said:


> President Asif Ali Zardari has condemned the attack.


 
Thats all he's going to do. Say some empty words and then go back to looting while Pakistan burns.

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## Devil Soul

flares r being used to identify the location of these A$$ holes


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## salmakh84

Again, people who say its a cowardly attack, please look at the facts. Right or wrong, the "terrorists" did a daddy of an operation, and are willing to get captured/die etc



salmakh84 said:


> If you look at it from Army's point of view: Operation by Pak Army against terrorist
> If you look at it from Mujahideens point of view: Fidayee Hamla against Allies of America.
> If you look at it from India's point of view: Oh yeah!
> If you look at it from America's point of view: Hmmm, Pakistan should do MORE.


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## KALKI

rickshaw driver said:


> ban him instead of giving him explanations.....its indians like him who make people say bad things about gandhi


 
There comes the false flagger for fulfilling his agenda.


----------



## ramu

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> No they can't - unless allowed free reign of the Nuclear Plant for several hours in order to plant explosives at all necessary locations and then successfully detonate them.
> 
> In an attack like this, they would only be able to cause some damage to equipment and infrastructure before being killed. They simply would not have the time or free reign to do what is necessary - this isn't a Hollywood movie.


 
Sorry , not many can buy this logic. Flooding water in Japan caused enough trouble. Think what well informed and armed men can do.

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## somebozo

why dont we take the few millions out of our nuke program and put it into enforcement of internal security?


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## American Pakistani

Still operation going on, a unit of PakArmy 1 FrontierForce & SSG's are called. Also PAF personnal are there.


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## Hammy007

no ispr announcement or formal declarations and explanations right now??


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## FreekiN

Omar1984 said:


> Then be prepared for routine bomb blasts in Lahore and other modern cities in Pakistan like when army started the South Waziristan and Swat operations.
> 
> May Allah save Pakistan. Ameen.


 
They are already routine. *If you do not cut off the cancer, it will spread and devour you. *

North waziristan will either make them or *BREAK* them. 

Enough is enough. Killing the cancer is the only cure. Imran Khan's slow as fcuk plans will never assemble and in the meantime they will have enough time to regroup and get stronger.

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## Roby

Fire inside has been controlled to some extent. Explosions inside actually rocket attacks


----------



## arsalabbasi

Yes, still no clearance from army commandos.


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## desiman

ramu said:


> Sorry , not many can buy this logic. Flooding water in Japan caused enough trouble. Think what well informed and armed men can do.


 
nice point.

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## Evil Flare

1:24am
Director General PR, Pakistan Navy, Irfanul Haq has confirmed two injuries  one sailor and one officer, both of whom are in critical condition. No foreigner has been killed in the attack, he says. Haq also confirms damage to one Pc3 Orion aircraft.
Another Navy source say the terrorists stormed the base with rockets, attack the Pc3 Orion and then snuck in further during the fire caused by the plane. The fire also spread to two other planes in the hangar.

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## DelhiDareDevil

wow my whole family is watching this on news and we feel sorry for Pakistan and what is hapenning to them

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## Roby

The last blast was a fuel tanker exploding #KarachiAttacks


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## Peregrine

News Update.Director General PR, Pakistan Navy, Irfanul Haq has confirmed two injuries  one sailor and one officer, both of whom are in critical condition. No foreigner has been killed in the attack, he says. Haq also confirms damage to one Pc3 Orion aircraft.Another Navy source say the terrorists stormed the base with rockets, attack the Pc3 Orion and then snuck in further during the fire caused by the plane. The fire also spread to two other planes in the hangar.


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## RazorMC

Too well-planned and coordinated to be a mere terror attack. Must have some sort of assistance.


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## Ganga

One thing is for sure that those who attacked today were not ordinary terrorists.It appears to me that they entered the base with a set of objectives. Such kind of attacks are generally carried out by special forces of a particular country to destroy the war machines of the enemy.I think for the first time in history we are seeing such an attack being carried out by a terror group.


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## pakdefender

The choice of targeting the P3 aircraft seems suspicious, especially when these aircraft are not being used against the terrorists and terrorists usually attack to inflict more casualties rather than spend time on blowing up anti-submarine aircrafts!

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## S.M.R

Geronimo2011 said:


> and to the LeT attack in Mumbai .. :|


 
Yes, attackers are similar, however its not gonna last for more than few hours. Although the number is 14 as compared to 10, but on the one side Pakistani Commandos are doing operation. Further, our media is responsible Media, it does not start shouting like Indian Media. Take a chill Pill.


----------



## Meengla

My understanding is that North Waziristan has Pakistani-allied Talibans who are being used to serve Pakistan's interests in the post-America Afghanistan. They are the 'moderate' Talibans Musharraf tried to push for even as early as late 2001. So these people have not much of an interest in targeting the very hands which feed and protect them.
Now who could do such an attack? I don't know.
But, when there are suicide bombers for hire in a country then anyone one with cash can exploit them: RAW, CIA, AlQaida, TTP... Just show the money!

The real question we should be asking are about the various jihadi factories operating inside Pakistan. And they exist in the heartland places like southern Punjab. Some of them are 'useful' against India. But then some of them can be useful FOR India. Whoever shows the money...


----------



## Omar1984

FreekiN said:


> They are already routine. *If you do not cut off the cancer, it will spread and devour you. *
> 
> North waziristan will either make them or BREAK them.


 
Our enemy within Pakistan are TTP, who only targets Pakistan and Pakistanis and were formed just a few years ago, after U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. The vast majority of people in North Waziristan are not harming Pakistan and Pakistanis, so why create more enemies within Pakistan that can make it a living nightmare for Pakistan.

TTP has weakened over the years, dont bring other people into the hands of TTP to make it stronger.

Pakistan should think about only its own startegic interests.

America and Pakistan sharing mutual interests is all B.S. America wants a stronger India and a weaker Pakistan and China. America would much rather have India as the next big power than China. And the breakup and turmoil of Pakistan would suit America's interests as it would stop Pakistan from being an energy corrider for China. 

Why on earth would Taliban want to destroy the Pakistani navy who are active on the warm waters of the Arabian Sea and are no where near FATA.

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## Ahmad

Ganga said:


> One thing is for sure that those who attacked today were not ordinary terrorists.It appears to me that they entered the base with a set of objectives. Such kind of attacks are generally carried out by special forces of a particular country to destroy the war machines of the enemy.I think for the first time in history we are seeing such an attack being carried out by a terror group.


 
Man, if you decide to give your life for a cause(whatever sh!t might it be), you can do anything that the highly trained forces wont be able to do.

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## pak-marine

start operating from karachi . lot of this Talibani & Aq pigs hiding within the city and move up to quetta as well as north waziristan

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## RazorMC

pakdefender said:


> The choice of targeting the P3 aircraft seems suspicious, especially when these aircraft are not being used against the terrorists and terrorists usually attack to inflict more casualties rather than spend time on blowing up anti-submarine aircrafts!


 
Cutting off our anti-sub capabilities.
We should perhaps keep our eyes peeled for a pattern.


----------



## ares

Ganga said:


> One thing is for sure that those who attacked today were not ordinary terrorists.It appears to me that they entered the base with a set of objectives. Such kind of attacks are generally carried out by special forces of a particular country to destroy the war machines of the enemy.I think for the first time in history we are seeing such an attack being carried out by a terror group.


 
This is not the first time.. a few years ago LTTE used similar tactics to destroy Sri lankan airplanes and radars at Colombo airbase.


----------



## relativiti

i'm shocked is all i can say.
P3C orion damaged/destroyed?? WTF!! since when did terrorists targeted gadgets?? considerable loss to pakistan.....pakistan seriously needs to put its house in order. otherwise only god knows whats next..... RIP to the dead. massive intel failure by ISI and army.


----------



## Cent4

KARACHI: Four people were killed in an armed attack Sunday by terrorists on PNS Mehran, a heavily guarded base of Pakistan Navy, located along Sharea Faisal, according to a foreign news agency.

TV images showed flames rising in the air from PNS Mehran where terrorists blew up a US made four-engine P-3C Orion plane of Pakistan Navy.

Five injured in the incident were shifted to a local hospital.

Additional personnel of security forces were also seen moving inside PNS Mehran.

Electricity of the entire area has also been shut down.

Earlier, four blasts were reported from the area near PAF base Faisal.

Ambulances and fire tenders were seen rushing toward the base following the powerful blasts that were heard across a wide radius.

Gunshots fired from sophisticated weapons were also heard following the blasts.

It is pertinent to mention here that in the previous weeks three buses of Pakistan Navy had been attacked by terrorists in the metropolitan city of Karachi.

Four dead in PNS Mehran attack: news agency - GEO.tv


----------



## unicorn

Such improvised attack cannot be done without foreign assistance and the amount of intel these guys have regarding the plane stationed there is just unbelievable.Looks like with their rockets they have come with clear intentions to destroy our military asset.


----------



## Cent4

KARACHI: Three blasts are reported to have occurred near PAF base Faisal located along Sharea Faisal, Geo News reported.

Ambulances were seen rushing toward the base following the powerful blasts that were heard across a wide radius.

Smoke can be seen billowing from the base.

3 blasts reported near PAF base Faisal - GEO.tv


----------



## Hammy007

relativiti said:


> i'm shocked is all i can say.
> P3C orion damaged/destroyed?? WTF!! since when did terrorists targeted gadgets?? considerable loss to pakistan.....pakistan seriously needs to put its house in order. otherwise only god knows whats next..... RIP to the dead. *massive intel failure by ISI and army.*


 
yes we also know about fish boat mumbai attacks, massive failure


----------



## somebozo

Why do I have a feeling that these attacks were bank rolled by CIA since totally unconcerned assets were targetted which damaged the NAVY monitoring ability to an extent?

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## DelhiDareDevil

WAQAS119 said:


> Indians are busy in cashing the moment.



stop trolling

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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> Its not as simple as planning the attack through the use of Google Maps, if you know the area, you will find out that access to these particular hangers can be quite tricky as there are a number of obtrusion in place.
> 
> There is clear internal support that allows this to occur, the base that was attacked today is always secure and under constant surveillance. However there are certain times that the security is a little lax but one cannot know that information as it is always kept secret.
> 
> We have incurred 100's of millions of dollars in damage today, I am sure that it cannot be so simple to execute this without any internal support.


 
*sadly the other thread vanished. so i have to repeat and agree with your statement about internal support *

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## Dance

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Hope indians dont get happy like some paks were when mumbai attacked happened.
> 
> These attacks happen a lot in pak



Can you stfu? You guys dont know when to stop now do you?

Why isnt this idiot banned?


----------



## salmakh84

hahaha. i m listening to some SAMAA TV in the net.. so funny analysis.. idiots talking about operation and "night vision" and saying its night, otherwise all "terrorists" would have been killed in minutes like SriLankan team attack.... lolsss. WHO HIRES these bozo's??


----------



## Devil Soul



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## Hammy007

DelhiDareDevil said:


> these terrorist are better fighters then pak army.


 
post reported, you are just trolling and trolling in stupid manner


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## Spring Onion

DelhiDareDevil said:


> these terrorist are better fighters then pak army.


 
Yes just like they are better than indian wana be blue water navy so stop your bharati trolling


----------



## Cent4

KARACHI: Pakistan Naval Shipping (PNS) Mehran Base, a heavily guarded facility of Pakistan Navy located along Shahrah-e-Faisal, has come under a terrorist attack, Federal Interior Minister Abdul Rehman Malik said on Sunday.

He said terrorists have launched an armed attack on PNS Mehran while the security forces and army personnel are retaliating terrorists, he said.

The minister said that the attack has been countered to a large extent and the security forces have placed strict cordon around the area.

A big fire is still raging at the site, which the firefighters are trying to douse.

Following the attack, PM Yousuf Raza Gilani phoned Interior Minister and inquired about the situation.

Geo News correspondent said that reportedly 10 terrorists have attacked on PNS Mehran with hand grenades while the gunshots are still being heard from inside.


hell with terorist
RIP to innocent and soldiers


----------



## CallsignAlzaeem

In my opinion they were being instructed from an inside source,They knew when and where to attack the P-3C Orion.

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## Ahmad

somebozo said:


> Why do I have a feeling that these attacks were bank rolled by CIA since totally unconcerned assets were targetted which damaged the NAVY monitoring ability to an extent?


 
Feeling doesnst count here, unless you got something to prove your point.

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## Evil Flare

I am not a guy who believe conspiracy but i am disturbed that even after 3 hours CNN did not cover this news .. usually they do in few minutes .


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## Devil Soul



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## praveen

can any pakistanis confirm if there is any oil refinery in the vicinity.I think thats the target


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## T-Faz

Jana said:


> *sadly the other thread vanished. so i have to repeat and agree with your statement about internal support *


 
Even a retired Air Commodore is stating this on TV.

He also says that plant was planted by us.

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## DelhiDareDevil

Should be thankful these terrorists didnt attack a civillian place like a shopping centre, these skilled terrorists would of killed many.


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## Pioneerfirst

Omar1984 said:


> Our enemy within Pakistan are TTP, who only targets Pakistan and Pakistanis and were formed just a few years ago, after U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. The vast majority of people in North Waziristan are not harming Pakistan and Pakistanis, so why create more enemies within Pakistan that can make it a living nightmare for Pakistan.
> 
> TTP has weakened over the years, dont bring other people into the hands of TTP to make it stronger.
> 
> Pakistan should think about only its own startegic interests.
> 
> America and Pakistan sharing mutual interests is all B.S. America wants a stronger India and a weaker Pakistan and China. America would much rather have India as the next big power than China. And the breakup and turmoil of Pakistan would suit America's interests as it would stop Pakistan from being an energy corrider for China.
> 
> Why on earth would Taliban want to destroy the Pakistani navy who are active on the warm waters of the Arabian Sea and are no where near FATA.



Totally agreed but our nation is not understanding.they always talk about USA but not against TTP,the real enemy of Pakistan


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## IBRIS

I just heard they blew up a C-130 in the hanger.


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## ares

unicorn said:


> Such improvised attack cannot be done without foreign assistance and the amount of intel these guys have regarding the plane stationed there is just unbelievable.Looks like with their rockets they have come with clear intentions to destroy our military asset.


 
Why foreign assistance is necessary..you are ignoring the fact ..that such can easily be carried out if your security agencies have moles/terrorist sympathizers in them..who could have handed them layout plans etc..given them access to the secure facility.


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## Roby

Terrorists have placed numerous timer & remote controlled explosives on important asserts inside PNS Mehran # TWITTER


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## VelocuR

*Oh not again nighttime attacking. It is very easy job at night than morning. *


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## Hammy007

majesticpankaj said:


> ya.. we admit that it was a massive failure... but it is a different thing to attack innocent and armless people than attacking a well guarded naval base..when u have the premonition of more attack after OBL"S episode


 
americans are working against pakistan, same thing is not true for india, americans have large money and resoursec to carry out these missions


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## Cent4

KARACHI: *Security forces killed six attackers, who assaulted PNS Mehran, and detained four other attackers, unconfirmed sources said.
*
According to the sources, two P-C3 Orion aircrafts have completely destroyed while seven bomb explosions have been reported.

According to spokesman of Pakistan Navy one aircraft was attacked. Two officials were martyred while two others received injuries.


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## praveen

karachites prey to allah that those morons do not go near natural gas or naptha tanks


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## Devil Soul

at least 4-5 hrs r required to clear the whole area


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## Pak SSG

Pakistan Get Ready for WAR! Its time to defend our MOTHERLAND PAKISTAN! NOW OR NEVER!


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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> Even a retired Air Commodore is stating this on TV.
> 
> He also says that plant was planted by us.


 
i commented on old thread . sources are saying help from internal extremists.


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## Peregrine

News Update. Ahmed Jung reports that oil tankers exploding due to the fire are the likely cause for the recent blasts on the base.Emergency services are confirming at least one death in the attack.It is expected the search operation will continue till daylight as the base is kilometres long.


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## WAQAS119

Ahmad said:


> Feeling doesnst count here, unless you got something to prove your point.


 
Amazing! Do you think that this fourth generation war leaves any prove? This is a totally new world with new techniques.


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## Spring Onion



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## Cent4

KARACHI: Security forces killed six attackers, who assaulted PNS Mehran, and detained four other attackers, unconfirmed sources said.

According to the sources, two P-C3 Orion aircrafts have completely destroyed while seven bomb explosions have been reported.

According to spokesman of Pakistan Navy one aircraft was attacked. Two officials were martyred while two others received injuries.


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## ramu

Other vital assets in this base


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## T-Faz

Some foreigners are being held as hostages by the terrorists.


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## naveenp

Pak SSG said:


> Pakistan Get Ready for WAR! Its time to defend our MOTHERLAND PAKISTAN! NOW OR NEVER!


 
war with whom bro, very sad news ohh god y terrorist do things like dis.


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## Cent4

IBRIS said:


> I just heard they blew up a C-130 in the hanger.


 

No I think that was P-3C orion.


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## Evil Flare

1:38pm
Ahmed Jung reports that oil tankers exploding due to the fire are the likely cause for the recent blasts on the base.
Emergency services are confirming at least one death in the attack.
It is expected the search operation will continue till daylight as the base is kilometres long.


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## pakdefender

Questions will definitely be asked about what sort of internal help these people had, where they stayed, who gave them shelter but the immediate need is to capture alive as many of these terrorists to extract information from them, this is vital
These people are without any doubt REAL enemies of Pakistan, they have targeted those assets of ours that are purely meant to counter Indian navy, I would feel proud to personally exterminate them [ after interrogation ]


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## relativiti

Hammy007 said:


> yes we also know about fish boat mumbai attacks, massive failure


 
don't drag mumbai into it, we know it was an even bigger failure.
anyway on topic not for the intention to troll but i'd like to link some things
if the terrorists attacked the P3C aircraft then i guess they might have previous intel about it from an inside source.i believe the source may be like someone who hates everything american even the tech and out of anger he may be associated in logistics providing to the terrorists team...radicalisation and brewing anger at work


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## Spring Onion

Two naval personnel martyred


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## Devil Soul

Express NEWS is reporting that these idiots used sewerage pipeline as a cover to enter the base


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## VelocuR

Jana said:


> i commented on old thread . sources are saying help from internal extremists.


 
who was plan planted by? PN navy staffers or US tipping to extremists?


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## Pioneerfirst

Peregrine said:


> You got that right, but the so-called patriotic Pakistani's will disagree with you as they have pledged their unconditional support for Army & ISI. For people like them it's a sin beyond redemption's to point fingers at Army or ISI


 
The forces which cant defend their own assets Can protect Pakistan???
Another failure and now USA will say about nukes safety the whole GHARAT BRIGADE will stood up against.

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## majesticpankaj

Hammy007 said:


> americans are working against pakistan, same thing is not true for india, americans have large money and resoursec to carry out these missions


 
what is ur point?? US is doing it ??


----------



## temujin

Aamir Zia said:


> I am not a guy who believe conspiracy but i am disturbed that even after 3 hours CNN did not cover this news .. usually they do in few minutes .



Nothing in the British media either..I agree its highly peculiar but I suspect there is a bit of 'Pakistan fatigue' involved..


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## Cent4

KARACHI: *Militants specifically targeted 'P-3C Orion plane* in PNS Mehran near PAF Faisal base located along Sharea Faisal, sources said.

Emergency declared in all hospitals in Karachi following these multiple blasts.


MODS please move this thread to navy section..


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## Hammy007

innalilhe wa inna ilaihe rajiun

2 navy personels martyred


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## FreekiN

Omar1984 said:


> Our enemy within Pakistan are TTP, who only targets Pakistan and Pakistanis and were formed just a few years ago, after U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. *The vast majority of people in North Waziristan are not harming Pakistan and Pakistanis*, so why create more enemies within Pakistan that can make it a living nightmare for Pakistan.



WHAT are you talking about? People? TTP, Haqqani Network, Al Qaeda? Not our enemies. Blowing up childrens schools is a good thing? This extremist ideology, no matter whos it is, Afghan or Pakistani Talibani, CANNOT be allowed to spread. 



> TTP has weakened over the years, dont bring other people into the hands of TTP to make it stronger.



That totally explains the rise in suicide bombers, doesn't it?




> America and Pakistan sharing mutual interests is all B.S. America wants a stronger India and a weaker Pakistan and China. America would much rather have India as the next big power than China. And the breakup and turmoil of Pakistan would suit America's interests as it would stop Pakistan from being an energy corrider for China.



So america is funding these fundies? 9/11 was an inside job too, right?



> Why on earth would Taliban want to destroy the Pakistani navy who are active on the warm waters of the Arabian Sea and are no where near FATA.



Why on Earth would they want to bomb minority shrines and musjids? Why would they want to help the Afghan Taliban by bombing Nato Tankers?

You proved nothing. Good job.

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## Spring Onion

RaptorRX707 said:


> who was plan planted by? PN navy staffers or US tipping to extremists?


 
more than outsiders' involvement i am more concerned over internal involvement

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## pakdefender

ramu said:


> Other vital assets in this base


 
do you have any proof that these helis are located there ?


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## Cheetah786

Pakistan: 'Militants' attack Karachi naval air base

Militants have attacked a Pakistani air base in Karachi, the country's largest city, police say.

Explosions and gunshots were heard as the attackers fought with troops at the Mehran naval aviation base. There are reports of casualties.

Eyewitnesses say black smoke is billowing from the base.

Militants in Pakistan have vowed to avenge the killing of Osama Bin Laden by US special forces on 2 May, and have carried out several attacks since then.

"It's a terrorist attack. More than 10 terrorists are inside," provincial home ministry official Sharfuddin Memon told AFP news agency.

"One of the four aircraft inside the premises has been damaged," he added.


Its time for Pakistani military to grow some once this is over advertise these peace of s.h.i.t.s pictures on air and in newspapers find out about there relatives and any jack a.s.s mullah they where involve with destroy there properties and kill the remaining Relatives that's the only way it will stop.


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## arsalabbasi

*a brave lieutenant and a fireman died. Army Sources Reporting at news channel.*


----------



## Cent4

*Militants specifically targeted 'P-3C Orion plane* in PNS Mehran near PAF Faisal base located along Sharea Faisal, sources said.

Emergency declared in all hospitals in Karachi following these multiple blasts.


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## ramu

pakdefender said:


> do you have any proof that these helis are located there ?


 
Check this thread : http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...-sh-60b-sea-hawk-paf-base-faisal-karachi.html


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## naveenp

is there any civilians hurted in this attack


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## VelocuR

It seem Pakistan will become thinner and thinner after very strong in thick. 

Routine attack on GH, Navy, army, people. What can we do cover up the loss of 3 PC Orion ??


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## praveen

fuel tankers on fire iam hearing


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## Pioneerfirst

Pak SSG said:


> Pakistan Get Ready for WAR! Its time to defend our MOTHERLAND PAKISTAN! NOW OR NEVER!


 
YA WAR WITH TERRORIST AND TALIBAN


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

T-Faz said:


> Its not as simple as planning the attack through the use of Google Maps, if you know the area, you will find out that access to these particular hangers can be quite tricky as there are a number of obtrusion in place.
> 
> There is clear internal support that allows this to occur, the base that was attacked today is always secure and under constant surveillance. However there are certain times that the security is a little lax but one cannot know that information as it is always kept secret.
> 
> We have incurred 100\'s of millions of dollars in damage today, I am sure that it cannot be so simple to execute this without any internal support.


The \'obtrusions\' and security mechanisms in place that were obviously breached is a cause for concern, and that is what I stated in my earlier post.

However, understanding the layout of the base and the locations of the P3\'s is not something that requires some deep and pervasive presence of extremist sympathisers in the military - one or two active or former technicians or other personnel with access to the base would be able to provide that information.

The actual execution of the attack, if it involved security personnel at the base allowing \'safe ingress\' to the attackers, is yet to be investigated and determined.

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## Evil Flare

1:50am
Terrorists used a sewerage line behind the PNS Mehran to enter the base, unconfirmed reports suggest. Rangers have been deployed at the entrance of the line.
Law enforcement agencies from many towns have been called in to surround the entire base to ensure the terrorists do not escape, confirms Express 24/7 reporter Ahmed Jung.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

A navy sailor and officer martyred.


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## Spring Onion

*The terrorists are reported to be using 3Gs *


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## razgriz19

inteligence agencies CANT predict everything!!!!!!!!!!
people see stuff happening everyday, but no one cares to report!
WHEN THEY DONT HAVE ANY LEAD THEN HOW THE HELL U EXPECT THEM TO KNOW!!??!?
they DONT have that many agents or informers for every city!

anywayy if u people have some common sense left then u would understand...


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## Evil Flare

RaptorRX707 said:


> It seem Pakistan will become thinner and thinner after very strong in thick.
> 
> Routine attack on GH, Navy, army, people. What can we do cover up the loss of 3 PC Orion ??


 
Lives are more important than any aircraft

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## Meengla

Well, even if ONE American was there on assignment at the base near the attack place then we can pretty much rule out CIA doing it. Americans may do false flag but not kill their own because 'truth' eventually comes out and there are severe consequences then.


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## razgriz19

Jana said:


> *The terrorists are reported to be using 3Gs *


 
service rifles??????


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## Stealth

Technically it is not possible ... 

like GHQ attack, Naval base attack... It's very high security area like Mehran Base. Half of the boundary of this base have no fence nor full security. A small bridge called (Malir nadi bridge) i think also passing through very near from this base. Might be possible terrorist use that way for such operation.


Technically its not possible. In my opinion these are not terrorist. It is pure special force style group who are conducting such attacks since last many years on high secure location like GHQ, Naval Base and others. From past 2 months many attacks on Naval buses, Naval officers. This is very very serious situation our security and agency are completely failed to stop such attacks. Such attacks not possible without help from INSIDE Base or compound etc. Such attacks need very very authentic information that how ... which route... which place.. which target.. pure information always possible from INSIDE base. Kind of events not possible by normal terrorist whom just go for single objective. This is a proper group (like sort of well equipped (armed) team along with very well information providers) with latest guns and weapons.. gadgets and military equipment.

Pakistan suffer just because of this WOT. We have to options now... its very very serious.. 

1, First declare its out war and we dont need any fund from US and via use UN tel the world that its our war now.. we dont need any kind of American or any international help. We will finish these groups etc our self... So that world will understand its Pakistan War and Pakistan will do it his self without any help. Nor anyone provide fund. So that we will either deal talk with these groups like American talk with Taliban and control the situation

OR

2, Immediately exit WOT, again same Talk with Taliban (when Americans are doing same thing with taliban) why not we ? It's for our interest we will talk with these groups IF THEY ARE REALLY Exsits because i still have faith on this ... these TTP etc groups are nothing only funded organizations by our enemies from Afghanistan side. The real terrorist based is Afghanitan where Americans, NATO along with Indians are helping funding these peoples. Simply we dont have such things before 9/11. 

It's very important to change WOT policy!

Still this is not possible (NAVAL BASE ATTACK) without Inside authentic information providers help... its very massive security in front ... 4 - 5 major checkpoint.... normal common sense person always have similiar question.

What are agencies doing ? 
Where is Pakistan security
Why not we take action against our Military generals because of whom today PAkistan and poeple of this nation suffering alot because of their decisions

Many Many question!

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## Cheetah786

Security forces killed six attackers, who assaulted PNS Mehran, and detained four other attackers, unconfirmed sources said.

According to the sources, two P-C3 Orion aircrafts have completely destroyed while seven bomb explosions have been reported.

According to spokesman of Pakistan Navy one aircraft was attacked. Two officials were martyred while two others received injuries.

House of saud should be paying for new p3 Orion as its there pets that have destroyed Pakistan property

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## Donatello

RaptorRX707 said:


> It seem Pakistan will become thinner and thinner after very strong in thick.
> 
> Routine attack on GH, Navy, army, people. What can we do cover up the loss of 3 PC Orion ??


 


I hope it is not 3....i heard 1 Orion is completely destroyed as it's fuel tank burst and caught fire. The other one is damaged due to heat and fire. Let see......


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## wakapdf

My main concern is that in the aftermath (or during since its still going on). Some retards are coming in and taking detailed pictures of these extremely viable areas. This is a big concern and should be stopped immediately.


----------



## ares

Dawn news is reporting that a lot Karchites have come out in swarms outside the base are enjoying the chaos as if late night matinee show is going on .. making videos of the incident ..police are unable to push them back.


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## shehbazi2001

P-3C Orion is a maritime surveillance aircraft and its targeting may be part of a larger plan.

As a security measure, the maritime surveillance should be increased because the targeting of P-3C Orion may be a precursor to a maritime intrusion.

On the other hand, may be the it is part of a deception plan to make Pakistanis concentrate on the maritime surveillance and then use another method of intrusion.

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## Evil Flare

so they enter via sewerage lines ..


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## T-Faz

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> The \'obtrusions\' and security mechanisms in place that were obviously breached is a cause for concern, and that is what I stated in my earlier post.
> 
> However, understanding the layout of the base and the locations of the P3\'s is not something that requires some deep and pervasive presence of extremist sympathisers in the military - one or two active or former technicians or other personnel with access to the base would be able to provide that information.
> 
> The actual execution of the attack, if it involved security personnel at the base allowing \'safe ingress\' to the attackers, is yet to be investigated and determined.


 
Well our very own security officials are stating that there is internal support which allowed this to happen.

You just can't walk in here from any place with rocket launchers and machine guns.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

ramu said:


> Sorry , not many can buy this logic. Flooding water in Japan caused enough trouble. Think what well informed and armed men can do.


 
Flooding water in the form of a tsunami and an earthquake - 10 to 12 men with grenades and assault rifles (being actively countered by security forces as in the case of the GHQ and base attack) can\'t replicate that kind of destructive force.

What are you smoking?


----------



## President Camacho

T-Faz said:


> Some foreigners are being held as hostages by the terrorists.


 
Is that true? Where did you get that?


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

T-Faz said:


> Well our very own security officials are stating that there is internal support which allowed this to happen.
> 
> You just can't walk in here from any place with rocket launchers and machine guns.



Same lapses happened in Mumbai attacks too. 

But learning from this is what should matter now.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

I say........ evac the whole FATA (civilians) and napalm these talibastards.

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## Devil Soul

No foreigner was/is present @ base .. as per Navy spoke person CMDR Salman


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## VelocuR

Aamir Zia said:


> Lives are more important than any aircraft


 
yaar, speaking of Pakistan security in asset, what can we do cover up the loss just case in war??


----------



## mikkix

PLZ dont use it for beginning of operation Waziristan.... 
Common PAK army not again....


----------



## FreekiN

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> I say........ evac the whole FATA (civilians) and napalm these talibastards.


 
They tried that with Swat, the terrorists can blend in and look like a civilian and move out.


----------



## Stealth

FreekiN said:


> WHAT are you talking about? People? TTP, Haqqani Network, Al Qaeda? Not our enemies. Blowing up childrens schools is a good thing? This extremist ideology, no matter whos it is, Afghan or Pakistani Talibani, CANNOT be allowed to spread.
> 
> That totally explains the rise in suicide bombers, doesn't it?
> 
> So america is funding these fundies? 9/11 was an inside job too, right?
> 
> Why on Earth would they want to bomb minority shrines and musjids? Why would they want to help the Afghan Taliban by bombing Nato Tankers?
> 
> You proved nothing. Good job.


 
You also proved nothing just.. YES YES BBC CNN is best... i believe what they show .. what they tell.... Pakistan is terrorist! 

You also proved nothing expect BS!


----------



## praveen

news streaming that all the orions are lost.They are also saying its a mass attack carried by 20-30 people


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## T-Faz

Patanjali said:


> Is that true? Where did you get that?


 
Well now they are clarifying that there were no foreigners who were present.

But I would like to think otherwise for obvious reasons.


----------



## Devil Soul

loo jee sun loo..... jus saw a news ticker @ express news that Rehman Malik's Ministry of interior did issued a warning of possible attack .... lol


----------



## Evil Flare

RaptorRX707 said:


> yaar, speaking of Pakistan security in asset, what can we do cover up the loss just case in war??


 
Koi War nahi honee ... Internal problems solve karo bus

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## DelhiDareDevil

Devil Soul said:


> No foreigner was/is present @ base .. as per Navy spoke person CMDR Salman


 
Wasnt the motive of the attack to kill the americans in the base?


----------



## VelocuR

No, CIA is not involving this matter (1 US serviceman died or more). It was something else for revenge.


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## DelhiDareDevil

What was the motive of the attack then? (previous message)


----------



## Hammy007

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Wasnt the motive of the attack to kill the americans in the base?


 
motive was to be killed by americans


----------



## Devil Soul

the name of shaheed are LT Yasser & Fireman Khalel ....


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## Dance

Devil Soul said:


> the name of shaheed are LT Yasser & Fireman Khalel ....


 
So sad. May they R.I.P


----------



## VelocuR

Sewerage pipeline, terrorists seem to know the direction to the Pakistan Navy. Heck!

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## American Pakistani

More Pak ARmy forces came around 10 jeeps.


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## wmdisinfo

pc3 orion aircrafts 2 destroyed because pakistan upgaraded them to fire cruise missiles and anti ship missiles which a a really great threat to us aircraft carriers

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## President Camacho

T-Faz said:


> Well now they are clarifying that there were no foreigners who were present.
> 
> But I would like to think otherwise for obvious reasons.


 
What obvious reasons? I mean, is it not good that foreigners didn't get caught into this?


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## Hammy007

the whole hard work of PTI to end their dharna in splendour had been damaged by this


----------



## razgriz19

they are saying runway is clear, so why cant they airborne all the other aircrafts and take them to JINNAH TERMINAL!??


----------



## cheekybird

Devil Soul said:


> the name of shaheed are LT Yasser & Fireman Khalel ....



RIP to the shaheeds


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## Devil Soul

the terrorists r holed up inside a building along with hostages including foreigners... geo sources


----------



## mikkix

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Wasnt the motive of the attack to kill the americans in the base?


 
The motive is simple like hey pakistan go ahead with waziristan operation otherwise we are making your peoples mind that pakistan is safe heaven for terrorist..
End Result: pakistan army starts operation in waziristan...

CIA and ISI playing their game and we are the baits


----------



## Donatello

praveen said:


> news streaming that all the orions are lost.They are also saying its a mass attack carried by 20-30 people


 
I would think that was Indian spiced up media.....there are 8 orions with Navy maybe more......if all of them are lost, you better be kidding me.


----------



## S.M.R

Hammy007 said:


> the whole hard work of PTI to end their dharna in splendour had been damaged by this


 
It is a clear message that NO dharna can stop Nato Supplies.


----------



## RedVision

*Pakistani security forces and intelligence agencies completely failed to stop terrorism, Very soon the terrorists's next target will be pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Pakistan will soon be disarmed of its neuclear weapons.*

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## RAZA SAHI

loo jee sun loo..... jus saw a news ticker @ express news that Rehman Malik's Ministry of interior did issued a warning of possible attack .... lol
@devil soul

IF you read the on line version of jang news today you ll find that just before the first news of attack on pns mehran there is news of the intelligence report issued by the authorities of a feared attack on military installations in karachi. that was military installations in KARACHI specifically.


----------



## American Pakistani

According to Dunya News, the new forces are called for final search operation.

One compound is still need to be clear.


----------



## Devil Soul

firing have stopped ..................


----------



## praveen

i thought pakistan had only 3 orions .hostage crisis with americans and turks


----------



## Hammy007

mikkix said:


> The motive is simple like hey pakistan go ahead with waziristan operation otherwise we are making your peoples mind that pakistan is safe heaven for terrorist..
> End Result: pakistan army starts operation in waziristan...
> 
> CIA and ISI playing their game and we are the baits


 
and isi and ispr will never tell the facts about this terrorist attack, will keep pakistanis guessing


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## S.M.R

WTF??? ARY: No terrorist has been caught yet.


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## Hammy007

RedVision said:


> *Pakistani security forces and intelligence agencies completely failed to stop terrorism, Very soon the terrorists's next target will be pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Pakistan will soon be disarmed of its neuclear weapons.*


 
pakistan is not a kid that americans can snatch away the nuclear tech from us


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## Evil Flare

KARACHI: More than 10 militants late Sunday attacked one of Pakistans main military bases, used by the navy and air force in Karachi.
Ten explosions and gunfire heard inside the PAF Museum on Shahrah-e-Faisal Road in Karachi. Towering flames arose from inside the PNS Mehran compound. Eight to 15 terrorists entered the compound suggest initial reports.
2:05am
The fires on the PAF base have been completely extinguished, confirms Express 24/7 reporter Ahmed Jung.
Shah Faisal number 5 area sewerage line was used to enter PNS Mehran, say sources on-ground.
They were equipped with sophisticated weapons, navy spokesman Commodore Irfanul Haq told Reuters.
Interior Minister Rehman Malik said the militants had attacked from the rear of the base. We have been able to confine them to one building and an operation is underway either to kill or capture them.
The Karachi attack evoked memories of an assault on Pakistans Army headquarters in the town of Rawalpindi in 2009, and revived concerns that even the most well-guarded installations in the country remain vulnerable.


----------



## Dance

Navy spokesman Cmdr Salman says no hostages -- foreign or local. He says 15 to 20 terrorists who are in 'morcha' and trading fire with NSSG


----------



## jha

Night vision goggles discovered from the terrorists who attacked PNS Mehran. Now this is a serious find! #KarachiAttacks.


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## AAtish

RIP to the naval shaheeds.. Inna Lillah-e-wa Inna Elaih-e-rajeoon..

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## Evil Flare

If they are confined to 1 place then security forces should try to Catch them alive .. can sleeping gas can be used ? something like that


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## President Camacho

RedVision said:


> *Pakistani security forces and intelligence agencies completely failed to stop terrorism, Very soon the terrorists's next target will be pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Pakistan will soon be disarmed of its neuclear weapons.*


 
Sounds more like a wish than a prediction... Are you really from Karachi?


----------



## Hammy007

jha said:


> Night vision goggles discovered from the terrorists who attacked PNS Mehran. Now this is a serious find! #KarachiAttacks.


 
wow wow wow, just wow, this is not taliban now!!!


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## Ganga

As i gather there were some American technicians working on the jets when the attacks took place although there are conflicting reports regarding the same.I guess this strike were carried out primarily too kill American citizens and destroy American made weapon systems.I think there is a direct link between this and the Osama operation.


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## S.M.R

RedVision said:


> *Pakistani security forces and intelligence agencies completely failed to stop terrorism, Very soon the terrorists's next target will be pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Pakistan will soon be disarmed of its neuclear weapons.*


Lolz. It is part of great game man. When they will do this, they will be supporting their stance by such events. Pakistan is only Muslim Nuclear State. Every chooora can have Nukes, but No muslim country can have it, let it be Pakistan or Iran or whatever.


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## jha

For KARACHITES..

O negative blood needed at PNS Rahat - RETWEET #Pakistan #karachi #Karachiattacks

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## Evil Flare

Taliban did now accept the responsibility yet .


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## Pioneerfirst

innocentboy said:


> It is a clear message that NO dharna can stop Nato Supplies.


 
PTI dharna has nothing to do with the attack,dharna has even nothing to do witheven NATO supplies.Its motive is political.
Y we people believe in conspiracy theories.These terrorist are in our line.They have such power in Karachi so imagine about their power in Waziristan??

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## Cheetah786

Police told not to enter all electricty to the area cut SSG in compound all terrorist in one building circled By SSG


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## Meengla

Cheetah786 said:


> I hope Americans fly nuclear tipped hell fire missiles in that area 1 or 2 at a time isnt enough every hell fire should kill 100000 to million


 
And what if the terrorists came from southern Punjab?!

Though it is almost impossible that some brainwashed youth could do such a powerful attack but the ingredients are there in broad-day light.
If there is even an iota of truth in this particular Wiki leak then we, as a nation, should hang our heads in shame. 

Here, read this:
Saudi Arabia, UAE financing extremism in south Punjab | Newspaper | DAWN.COM



> Families first approached by ostensibly charitable organisations would later be introduced to a local Deobandi or Ahl-i-Hadith maulana who would offer to educate the children at his madrassah and find them employment in the service of Islam. Martyrdom was also often discussed, with a final cash payment to the parents. Local sources claim that the current average rate is approximately Rs 500,000 (approximately USD 6,500) per son, the cable states.


----------



## shining eyes

TURKISH AND FRENCH TERRORISTS????????? ARY SAID


----------



## arsalabbasi

Terrorists entered from the waste water Channel.


----------



## Hammy007

Ganga said:


> As i gather there were some American technicians working on the jets when the attacks took place although there are conflicting reports regarding the same.I guess this strike were carried out primarily too kill American citizens and destroy American made weapon systems.I think there is a direct link between this and the Osama operation.


 
no foreigners were inside a/c to news


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

T-Faz said:


> Well our very own security officials are stating that there is internal support which allowed this to happen.
> 
> You just can\'t walk in here from any place with rocket launchers and machine guns.


 
Our own security officials are also speculating when the details are not known.


----------



## razgriz19

jha said:


> Night vision goggles discovered from the terrorists who attacked PNS Mehran. Now this is a serious find! #KarachiAttacks.


 
you can buy them from a pathan in peshawar for few bucks...


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## Cheetah786

Good news they want to catch them alive 

4 foreigners dead

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## Pioneerfirst

Aamir Zia said:


> Taliban did now accept the responsibility yet .


 
DO you believe them???


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## President Camacho

jha said:


> *For KARACHITES..
> 
> O negative blood needed at PNS Rahat - RETWEET #Pakistan #karachi #Karachiattacks*


 
^^^Greater need of the hour, than our blind opinions.


----------



## jha

shining eyes said:


> TURKISH AND FRENCH TERRORISTS????????? ARY SAID



This just keeps getting Crazier and Crazier.. French and Turkish Terrorists ..?


----------



## praveen

might be hostages


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## sarthak

How do we know that the militants were specifically targetting the P-3C Orion? Couldn't it be that they entered the base, and burnt it just because they saw it ?


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## AAtish

Cheetah786 said:


> Good news they want to catch them alive


 
They should at least catch a couple of them alive so that the whole network can be traced out.. i think these people won't know a lot, but whatever we can extract out of them will help in further steps..


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## SSGPA1

RedVision said:


> Pakistani security forces and intelligence agencies completely failed to stop terrorism, Very soon the terrorists's next target will be pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Pakistan will soon be disarmed of its neuclear weapons.[/SIZE]



Our armed forces and intelligence forces have played a huge role in safeguarding Pakistanis and Pakistani assets. We are in a war and look at our opponents the CIA, RAW, Afghans and their tools such as the TTP.

Also consider the resources we have whih are limited in all aspects. There are a 180 million Pakistanis with around 2.5 million Afghans who look like us and some of them, play a big role in these attacks.

Soon Nawaz Sharif will claim that the ISI must be under the civilian control as per the American agenda. This is a ploy to malign the armed forces so lets not play into our enemies' hands and stand behind Pakistan armed forces.

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## razgriz19

sarthak said:


> How do we know that the militants were specifically targetting the P-3C Orion? Couldn't it be that they entered the base, and burnt it just because they saw it ?


 
probably, but people like to speculate u kno..


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## SMC

Bharati and American supported terrorists working on American and bharati plans. I hope they get caught alive and have their d*cks chopped off during interrogation t reveal their true handlers.


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## Hammy007

god, firing started again!!!!!!!!!!

how they moved so much ammo inside


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## VelocuR

15-20 terrorists are foreigners? any confirm..?


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## S.M.R

Firing started again....


----------



## Evil Flare

2:15am
Confirmed reports that Lieutenant Yasir and a fireman, Khalilur Rehman have been killed in the line of duty.


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## S.M.R

RaptorRX707 said:


> 15-20 terrorists are foreigners? any confirm..?


 
ARY: They seem foreigners and have night vision goggles.

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## praveen

inside help they say


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## Hammy007

only 2 personal were injured and both of them got shahadat

that is some great heroics from those martyred men

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## RedVision

Patanjali said:


> Sounds more like a wish than a prediction... Are you really from Karachi?


 
*Patanjali, its my prediction, i can see the impending danger very well, nothing is safe at the moment in pakistan, soon the terrorits will target Pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Anti-Pakistan militant groups will intensify terrorist attacks in pakistan in the coming days. Anything can happen in the next [few] days.*


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## praveen

the 4 foreigners might be american service men


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## Evil Flare

2:24am
An official speaking on condition of anonymity says at least 4-5 terrorists have been shot dead, but the aim of the operation is to catch the militants alive.
Fire has erupted again as fire fighters paused efforts due to an on going gun battle.
Heavy gunfire is ongoing at PNS Mehran, confirms Express 24/7 reporter Ahmed Jung.

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## aks18

talibans have nothing to do with these eletronic warfare planes their main target was Pc3 so most probably benefit goes to the indian side their agency is most probably involved in it using the talibans against Pak army now just like americans did against russia.


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## RazorMC

I guess that the attacks are intended to demoralize the military more than anything else and to stop attacking the terrorists.

GEO NEWS: Firing continuing sporadically.

Note: CNN and BBC have no reports about this yet.

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## Hammy007

Aamir Zia said:


> 2:24am
> An official speaking on condition of anonymity says at least 4-5 terrorists have been shot dead, but the aim of the operation is to catch the militants alive.
> Fire has erupted again as fire fighters paused efforts due to an on going gun battle.
> Heavy gunfire is ongoing at PNS Mehran, confirms Express 24/7 reporter Ahmed Jung.


 
inshallah they will be caught alive


----------



## shining eyes

which 4 foreigners? the US ambassador has confirmed the absense of any american in base

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## DelhiDareDevil

aks18 said:


> talibans have nothing to do with these eletronic warfare planes their main target was Pc3 so most probably benefit goes to the *indian side *their agency is most probably involved in it using the talibans against Pak army now just like americans did against russia.



Show evidence? Or stop spreading lies.


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## Pioneerfirst

SMC said:


> Bharati and American supported terrorists working on American and bharati plans. I hope they get caught alive and have their d*cks chopped off during interrogation t reveal their true handlers.



*We blame others so much that people have left to belive us.*If the terrorist were indian or US supported then still they are Pakistanis and we have given them so soft targets so talk about our wonselves.

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## Devil Soul

more troops enter base


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## Cheetah786

no_koadsheding_plz said:


> bjhai shab dosra lafzo ma ya kaho ka pashtuno ko khatam karo...
> dont post such an immature and flaming comments,,


 
I stand by my comments


----------



## HAIDER

From last report four bodies of terrorist recovered 
Out which one was turkish second one french all these terrorist were extremely well equipped having most latest night vision gadgets and other stuff.

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## Hutchroy

RedVision said:


> *Patanjali, its my prediction, i can see the impending danger very well, nothing is safe at the moment in pakistan, soon the terrorits will target Pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Anti-Pakistan militant groups will intensify terrorist attacks in pakistan in the coming days. Anything can happen in the next [few] days.*


 
There may well be an attack on India in the next few days and there is a remote possibility that it could be on the USA or UK.


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## no_koadsheding_plz

it may be the 9/11 of pakistan just to portray to the world its sincerity in wot by showing its direct effect on itself,, i definitly see it this way,,


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## SSGPA1

shining eyes said:


> which 4 foreigners? the US ambassador has confirmed the absense of any american in base


 
Great sense of humour


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## Cheetah786

Cheetah786 said:


> I stand by my comments


 
Do you really think pushtoons will be safe in karachi now think again guranteed there will be operations in all areas of pushtoons


----------



## baqai

just learned new "facts" from Dawn News ... P3C Orion is capable of landing on our PN Ships and its a "fighter plane" bought from China


----------



## aks18

HAIDER said:


> From last report four bodies of terrorist recovered
> Out which one was turkish second one french all these terrorist were extremely well equipped having most l*atest night vision gadgets* and other stuff.


 
so there must be involvement of sum foreign agency like RAW n CIA ,,,


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## VelocuR

HAIDER said:


> From last report four bodies of terrorist recovered
> Out which one was turkish second one french all these terrorist were extremely well equipped having most latest night vision gadgets and other stuff.


 
why turkish or french terrorists?


----------



## razgriz19

RazorMC said:


> I guess that the attacks are intended to demoralize the military more than anything else and to stop attacking the terrorists.
> 
> GEO NEWS: Firing continuing sporadically.
> 
> Note: CNN and BBC have no reports about this yet.


 
why the f*** do you care!?
they'll report it whenever they want!
its not like their reporting will help our soldiers to catch the terrorists alive!


----------



## RazorMC

Guess the military is going to face a lot more criticism after this and the international community will start questioning the security of Pakistan's nuclear arsenal.
We'll have to wait a bit for a clearer picture.


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## desioptimist

no_koadsheding_plz said:


> it may be the 9/11 of pakistan just to portray to the world its sincerity in wot by showing its direct effect on itself,, i definitly see it this way,,


 
No country kills its own people to show off others that it is a victim. Why do you make absurd theories when there is daily bomb blast by TTP?

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## VelocuR

baqai said:


> just learned new "facts" from Dawn News ... P3C Orion is capable of landing on our PN Ships and its a "fighter plane" bought from China


 
Dawn doens't know about military. Landing on PN Ships and fighter plane bought....Lol.


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## roadrunner

I dont know anything about the incident but attacking a naval base and destroying military aircraft is much too complicated a task for RPG toting men.


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## S.M.R

ramu said:


> And you were the one advising Indians not to jump to conclusions during the Mumbai attacks. What a hypocrite.



Yes, we always do the same, Just tune on any of our News Channel, no one is shouting for India's involvement unlike your media, who reached on conclusion that Pakistanis are involved in the operation, right after the first bullet was fired.

this is called hypocrisy.


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## Hammy007

armored vehicle has been deployed to rescue the injured rangers


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## no_koadsheding_plz

Cheetah786 said:


> I stand by my comments



then u are a racist,,,
let it be clear to u that south waziristan is totaly free and un inhibitdced for the passt couple of years and the only human beings there are pak army,,,, and still the talibans are roaring free ,, y? how they operate so effectively when their nervous centre is in the controle of a pak army?

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## Dance

RaptorRX707 said:


> why turkish or french terrorists?


 
Thats what I'm wondering, if they are foreigners then they are usually chechens, afghans, uzbecks,etc


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## AAtish

RedVision said:


> *Patanjali, its my prediction, i can see the impending danger very well, nothing is safe at the moment in pakistan, soon the terrorits will target Pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Anti-Pakistan militant groups will intensify terrorist attacks in pakistan in the coming days. Anything can happen in the next [few] days.*


 
You have repeated this message 19 times and thats total number of your posts...

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## razgriz19

RaptorRX707 said:


> why turkish or french terrorists?


 
when al-qaeda or any other organization recruit people, they dont look at the nationalities!!
infact they recruit people from every where to show that they have support around the world!


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## SSGPA1

Pioneerfirst said:


> *We blame others so much that people have left to belive us.*If the terrorist were indian or US supported then still they are Pakistanis and we have given them so soft targets so talk about our wonselves.



I don't think anyone has any sympathy towards those traitors and they deserve the death penalty but we need to also highlight those provide them with financial and tactical means.


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## Pioneerfirst

no_koadsheding_plz said:


> it may be the 9/11 of pakistan just to portray to the world its sincerity in wot by showing its direct effect on itself,, i definitly see it this way,,



*Here Everyday is 9/11 for us and will be* untill unless we as a nation stop supporting terroist morally.

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## HAIDER

RaptorRX707 said:


> SSG fail the battle with these terrorists, now more troop deployed to the base, how sad!


 
Its all collateral damage. That's why SSG working on very slow pace. Plus facility carries very expense equipment..


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## roadrunner

why are some people comparing the to Mumbai? It's nothing like it. Mumbai was an unsecure city, a naval base is not (not to mention Kasab is fluent in Marathi).

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## President Camacho

RedVision said:


> Patanjali, its my prediction, i can see the impending danger very well, nothing is safe at the moment in pakistan, soon the terrorits will target Pakistan's neuclear weapons facilities in Kahuta. Anti-Pakistan militant groups will intensify terrorist attacks in pakistan in the coming days. Anything can happen in the next [few] days.


 
Ya know, the best you did was "Anything can happen in the nest few days". That's about it.

Attack on Pakistan's nuclear assets - the terrorists won't do that. They are no fools. Attack on key cities would rather be more economic and more resulting than trying to attack the nuclear installations. Resources spent on one failing attack on any nuclear installation, could well be used for 10 successful attacks in major cities in Pakistan. Which one do you think they would prefer?


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## RazorMC

razgriz19 said:


> why the f*** do you care!?
> they'll report it whenever they want!
> its not like their reporting will help our soldiers to catch the terrorists alive!


 
I mentioned that fact as something to be noted. No need for you to get abusive.
Don't like the post then don't read it. Nobody is forcing you to.


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## aks18

DelhiDareDevil said:


> I will be really worried if the terrorist can enter Pakistan nuke facilities after reading RedVision message.
> 
> What do Indians and amercians here recommend?


 


terrorists cant attack nuke areas unless your agencies provide them informations about the nuke assets of pakistan


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## RazorMC

Commodore Irfan ul-Haq: SSG and Navy Marines have encircled the terrorists and protecting the assets successfully. Fire almost under control

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## Dance

razgriz19 said:


> they are not sleeping, they are testing YOU to see how long you'll troll!
> 
> JUST DONT REPLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
The fact that he has been trolling since the beginning of the thread and now its page 32 and yet the mods still havent done anything even after he's been reported. Maybe you don't mind that when indians come on here and make light of a serious situation but I do


----------



## Meengla

Well, the ease and the willingness with which the entire Pakistani leadership distanced itself from the OBL raid made a distinct impression that Pakistanis were afraid of the blowback effect. I mean, okay, it may have been an all American operation but why not try to make some noises/claims about that? Why just sit still--and most of them just sat until they realize that 'Pakistan' itself was now being targeted too much--when you can score some brownie/PR points? I think the fear of reprisals was great. Pakistanis know that disturbing just one hornets' nest like Lal Masjid caused so much death and destruction. And here it was OBL--the Hitler-equivalent of the 21st century.
I still don't know who attacked the PAF base today. However somehow it is still connected to the recent escalations since OBL death.
May be the Wiki leaks of year 2015 show us what happened today.

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## DelhiDareDevil

aks18 said:


> terrorists cant attack nuke areas unless your agencies provide them informations about the nuke assets of pakistan



Just that because a lot of media speculation on what Obama said and on here too.

Some people are very sensative on this thread.


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## Cheetah786

no_koadsheding_plz said:


> then u are a racist,,,
> let it be clear to u that south waziristan is totaly free and un inhibitdced for the passt couple of years and the only human beings there are pak army,,,, and still the talibans are roaring free ,, y? how they operate so effectively when their nervous centre is in the controle of a pak army?





no_koadsheding_plz said:


> it may be the 9/11 of pakistan just to portray to the world its sincerity in wot by showing its direct effect on itself,, i definitly see it this way,,



There is no body living in south waziristan other then Pak army yeah and every body walking around is taliban only let me guess you are a terrorist sympathizer.


----------



## DV RULES

RaptorRX707 said:


> SSG fail the battle with these terrorists, now more troop deployed to the base, how sad!


 
Raptor

If you couldn't understand how SSG works then there is no need to speculate, more troops deployed to give back up & covering rest of area to not let any terrorist out from operation. 

Take a single doze of aspirin and take rest.

This is time for hard brains but not frightened and disappointed.


----------



## Hammy007

i dont get why there is so intensive activity???, are these terrorists so strong??, 4-5 hours and still no escape


----------



## ramu

SMC said:


> That's not the same as what you said. You were talking about not jumping to conclusions about Pakistan, which only could've happened just after 26/11, when I wasn't active.
> 
> But there is evience against both RAW and CIA - namely Raymond Davis.


 
Sorry, Raymond Davis and RAW are related just like Hillary Clinton and Hu Jintao. Please stop embarrassing yourself. This is my last reply to you as I dont want to digress from the topic at hand.


----------



## Spring Onion

HAIDER said:


> Its all collateral damage. That's why SSG working on very slow pace. Plus facility carries very expense equipment..


 
*SSG is doing wonderful job *


----------



## roadrunner

aks18 said:


> after killing two pakistani raymond davis was talking in urdu with local he was also expert of pashto language with locally dressed no one can say raymond is a american or sum foreigner they are playing great game against pakistan and our leaders are also part of it.


 
A lot of people will disagree with me. 

But the solution to Pakistan's problem currently is to model itself on the old Soviet Union with a Big Brother type security service asking for papers of everyone. 

It's not a solution I'd apply to many other countries but Pakistan is in an important geostrategic region and a playground for the superpowers (as is Afghanistan).

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## SMC

Seems like an attempt mostly by CIA to show Pakistan's nukes as unsafe. Other statements have came out recently. Pakistan needs to be on red alert. They will be attempting to steal Pakistan's nukes very soon.

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## aks18

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Just that because a lot of media speculation on what Obama said and on here too.
> 
> Some people are very sensative on this thread.


 
i can see how much u indians are worried about our nukes one of indian was saying OMG is there nukes in naval base  now ur fuked up media will surely bash pakistan upon this attacked backed by ur agencies that pakistan cant handle nukes so american should attack pakistan


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## S.M.R

Pioneerfirst said:


> *Here Everyday is 9/11 for us and will be* untill unless we as a nation stop supporting terroist morally.


 
and Others STOP supporting terrorists financially.

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## DelhiDareDevil

Hammy007 said:


> i dont get why there is so intensive activity???, are these terrorists so strong??, 4-5 hours and still no escape


 
Mumbai attacks lasted 4-5 days.

So this shows they can go on for a long time.


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## Spring Onion

Meengla said:


> Well, the ease and the willingness with which the entire Pakistani leadership distanced itself from the OBL raid made a distinct impression that Pakistanis were afraid of the blowback effect. I mean, okay, it may have been an all American operation but why not try to make some noises/claims about that? Why just sit still--and most of them just sat until they realize that 'Pakistan' itself was now being targeted too much--when you can score some brownie/PR points? I think the fear of reprisals was great. Pakistanis know that disturbing just one hornets' nest like Lal Masjid caused so much death and destruction. And here it was OBL--the Hitler-equivalent of the 21st century.
> I still don't know who attacked the PAF base today. However somehow it is still connected to the recent escalations since OBL death.
> May be the Wiki leaks of year 2015 show us what happened today.


 
The episode had disturbed many and you are right on spot


----------



## S-2

A pakistani friend of mine has pointed out how the attacks on the naval buses, Saudi diplomat and now the air base have-all in Karachi, point to a concerted effort to either attack legitimate targets of an insurgency, avoid civilian casualties or both.

I thought the implications of such a possible shift in target selection very interesting. Clearly this was a sophisticated penetration. It'll be interesting should the actual means come to public knowledge.

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## Dance

DelhiDareDevil said:


> How was I trolling, you were using abusive language, while other Pakistanis responded properly. Maybe you are having a tough time.
> 
> Peace man.


 
I don't want to waste the time and go back to look up the stupid comments you made regarding the Pakistan army and the death of innocent Pakistani because you aren't worth it. 

Trollers will be trollers, asking you to stop trolling and respect the topic would be asking too much because you are low


----------



## Hammy007

this cant be talibans, cant be alquaeda, these men are becked from strong people who have good knowledge, and they have a very strong training


----------



## ramu

*Pakistan: Militants attack Karachi naval air base*
Source : BBC News - Pakistan: Militants attack Karachi naval air base

Gunmen have attacked a military base in the Pakistani city of Karachi, killing at least two soldiers, officials say.

Big explosions were heard as the men stormed parts of the Mehran naval aviation base. They are said to be holding hostages, including foreigners.

Officials say it is a terror attack, and commandos are fighting back.

No group has claimed the raid, but the Pakistani Taliban have vowed to avenge the killing of Osama Bin Laden by US special forces on 2 May.

They have carried out several attacks since then.

On Sunday between 15 and 20 militants stormed three hangars housing aircraft at the Mehran base, according to officials.


Interior Minister Rehman Malik said: "We have been able to confine them to one building and an operation is underway either to kill or capture them."

Irfan ul Haq, a spokesman for the Pakistani navy, told AFP news agency: "One of our officers and one Navy personnel have been martyred."

Fires have erupted, with smoke billowing above the base.

A number of planes are said to have been damaged.


----------



## RazorMC

Commodore Irfan ul-Haq on GEO NEWS: Not a security lapse. Will investigate in the coming time. Care being taken to protect assets and troops. No comments yet on number or killed/captured terrorists. They used rockets to attack. No foreigner present, even as hostages. No hostages. No building under terrorist control.

Navy has full control of area.


----------



## Safriz

CIA has to be involved in such a precision attack........They have the habit of destroying the military hardware they gave to a foreign country..after their purpose has been served..
Remember ojhri camp?

This time it may well be to demonstrate that our military cant protect themselves and we need American troops in Pakistan..

No i dont have proof,i am speculating same as anybody else...

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## SMC

ramu said:


> Sorry, Raymond Davis and RAW are related just like Hillary Clinton and Hu Jintao. Please stop embarrassing yourself. This is my last reply to you as I dont want to digress from the topic at hand.


 

Embarrassing myself? LOL. Ok, if that makes you feel better.
A terrorist live on TV admitted bharat provides money and targets. More importantly, from horse's mouth itself - Qari Ziaur Rehman admitted to getting help fron ANA.

But the thing is that you're accusing me of being a hypocrite, but do the same yourself. i.e. accuse Pakistan without evidence and then go on things like this.


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## Evil Flare




----------



## DelhiDareDevil

Dance said:


> I don't want to waste the time and go back to look up the stupid comments you made regarding the Pakistan army and the death of innocent Pakistani because you aren't worth it.
> 
> Trollers will be trollers, asking you to stop trolling and respect the topic would be asking too much because you are low



Peace man, calm down a bit.

Just because you dont agree with a person, doesnt mean you have the right to call someone a troll, when I broke no rules. Read message 467, is he a trolling talking about nukes like I did? lol hypocrite.

You are just jealous mate. Have a good day, dont want to derail the topic any further with you.


----------



## Cheetah786

Hammy007 said:


> i dont get why there is so intensive activity???, are these terrorists so strong??, 4-5 hours and still no escape


 
As i said before SSGs under order not to kill them catch them alive so they are following orders that's not called fail people spreading rumors police is been told not to enter area all injured will be transported in bullet proof vehicles no ambulances allowed to go in.


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## Bratva

Is it SSGN or SSGA taking part in operation?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

S-2 said:


> A pakistani friend of mine has pointed out how the attacks on the naval buses, Saudi diplomat and now the air base have-all in Karachi, point to a concerted effort to either attack legitimate targets of an insurgency, avoid civilian casualties or both.
> 
> I thought the implications of such a possible shift in target selection very interesting. Clearly this was a sophisticated penetration. It'll be interesting should the actual means come to public knowledge.


 
I am not sure how you can call this a 'shift' in target selection, given the number of previous attacks on GHQ, ISI offices, police stations, FC compounds, police academies and training centers, ISI buses, PAF buses, PN buses, over the last few years.

Your 'Pakistani friend' has a selective memory.

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## SMC

Aamir Zia said:


>


 
Great news, 4 arrested. Should really try to get everything about RAW and CIA from them as possible.


----------



## Evil Flare



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## Meengla

roadrunner said:


> A lot of people will disagree with me.
> 
> But the solution to Pakistan's problem currently is to model itself on the old Soviet Union with a Big Brother type security service asking for papers of everyone.


 
I agree with you!
I have said that, with so many unemployed people, there should be informers all over Pakistan reporting to security agencies. I can see some abuse. But these are desperate situations and they require desperate measures.
Screw this political correctness. Screw this 'Aadha Teteer, Aadha Bateir' like security setup. And certainly screw these jihadi madarsahs. They need to be exposed in the media, round the clock.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*Stick to the topic please.
*

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## DV RULES

Simply i can say that this attack was probably outsider work.


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## aks18

desioptimist said:


> Thats because it was a hotel not a security installation. They wanted to protect the heritage structure and the civilians struck there.


 
no that was just a drama nothing more than it thats why it lasts 4 to 5 days .


----------



## Pioneerfirst

SMC said:


> That's not the same as what you said. You were talking about not jumping to conclusions about Pakistan, which only could've happened just after 26/11, when I wasn't active.
> 
> *But there is evience against both RAW and CIA* - namely Raymond Davis.



Our parliment with the consent of Army and ISI can pass a resolution only condeming and talking forged US strike in Abotaba.no mention of terrorist using our land, but we can not show proof to our nation,that is what our courage.We always hide facts


----------



## HAIDER

S-2 said:


> A pakistani friend of mine has pointed out how the attacks on the naval buses, Saudi diplomat and now the air base have-all in Karachi, point to a concerted effort to either attack legitimate targets of an insurgency, avoid civilian casualties or both.
> 
> I thought the implications of such a possible shift in target selection very interesting. Clearly this was a sophisticated penetration. It'll be interesting should the actual means come to public knowledge.


 Sir, if you follow the pattern of entry in the premises and type of gadget they were carry and plus identified terrorist from foreign land. Its hallmark of Alkaida,,,these are not some ragtag local guys.....
But question remain same ,,why no terrorist attack in Arab land why always Pakistan ?..
Pakistan judiciary system doesn't allow the agencies to deal with Lead and they been free when witness don't come forward for the safety of their life.

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## AAtish

4 shaheed.. commodore Irfan ul Huq on Geo News

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## roadrunner

RazorMC said:


> Commodore Irfan ul-Haq on GEO NEWS: Not a security lapse. Will investigate in the coming time. Care being taken to protect assets and troops. No comments yet on number or killed/captured terrorists. They used rockets to attack. No foreigner present, even as hostages. No hostages. No building under terrorist control.
> 
> Navy has full control of area.


 
If people can get missiles and bombs into a military area there's a security lapse.

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## SpArK

SMC said:


> Great news, 4 arrested. Should really try to get everything about RAW and CIA from them as possible.


 
Are you the new military , intelligence analyst in town.

@ topic the orions destroyed were the ones inducted in june last year

Pakistan Navy Inducts Two U.S.-Provided Maritime Patrol Aircraft (06/01/2010) - U.S. Embassy Islamabad, Pakistan

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## RazorMC

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I am not sure how you can call this a 'shift' in target selection, given the number of previous attacks on GHQ, ISI offices, police stations, FC compounds, police academies and training centers, ISI buses, PAF buses, PN buses, over the last few years.
> 
> Your 'Pakistani friend' has a selective memory.


 
I guess he was referring to the focus now turning to Karachi for the time being.


----------



## ramu

SMC said:


> Great news, 4 arrested. Should really try to get everything about RAW and CIA from them as possible.


 
Premature. You are so confident. I am sure you will get a confession from a fox that it is a lion. We are ALL waiting.


----------



## S.M.R

SMC said:


> Seems like an attempt mostly by CIA to show Pakistan's nukes as unsafe. Other statements have came out recently. Pakistan needs to be on red alert. They will be attempting to steal Pakistan's nukes very soon.


 
Well I agree with you 100%. There are reports that RD was part of the game, as his duty was to deliver Uranium to the terrorists, thereafter whistles were to be blown that Nukes are not safe. But RD drama was nicely ended by ISI. Now they are coming with these kind of attacks, to achieve the ultimate objective i.e. disarming Pakistan from nuclear weapons.

Now call me conspiracy theorist.

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## MilSpec

DV RULES said:


> Simply i can say that this attack was probably outsider work.


 
no inquiry ,,, no investigation... straight verdict....


----------



## Manticore

guys , which helis/planes and how many have been affected by now---


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## desioptimist

aks18 said:


> no that was just a drama nothing more than it thats why it lasts 4 to 5 days .


 
No wonder many people here think even this was stage managed by your own institutions, but I would think that as absurd.
What next? TTP is a regiment of PA?


----------



## mikkix

It cant be done without the help of Insiders...


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

Capturing the terrorists alive can be a bad thing, as the terrorist can hold hostages in future as a bargaining chip to get the captured terrorists back.

Thats one reason why US navy seals killed a unarmed Osama Bin Laden.


----------



## Hammy007

there r no helis taking part in ops??


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## Evil Flare

2:52am
A few minutes back massive gunfire forced media personnel to lie down on the ground, reports Ahmed Jung. Fire is still erupting from the spot.
The gun battle has lasted 5 hours.
The Shah Faisal colony drain line leads to a small wall, which allows entrance into the base, says Jung. This was the likely route the terrorists took.


----------



## roadrunner

Meengla said:


> I agree with you!
> I have said that, with so many unemployed people, there should be informers all over Pakistan reporting to security agencies. I can see some abuse. But these are desperate situations and they require desperate measures.
> Screw this political correctness. Screw this 'Aadha Teteer, Aadha Bateir' like security setup. And certainly screw these jihadi madarsahs. They need to be exposed in the media, round the clock.


 
I wasn't thinking of informers reporting on unusual activities. 

Pakistan's problem is partly that. But partly the foreigners that enter and cause mayhem. 

The KGB would roam around the Soviet Union asking people for their papers. If they could not show they were Soviet then they could be arrested. That's what Pakistan needs also. It's a security problem. 

Informers would also be needed. 

Pakistan's security is not bad but it's not good enough for the current geopolitical theatre. It needs to be a bit more ruthless like the Soviets.

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## SMC

innocentboy said:


> Well I agree with you 100%. There are reports that RD was part of the game, as his duty was to deliver Uranium to the terrorists, thereafter whistles were to be blown that Nukes are not safe. But RD drama was nicely ended by ISI. Now they are coming with these kind of attacks, to achieve the ultimate objective i.e. disarming Pakistan from nuclear weapons.
> 
> Now call me conspiracy theorist.



Yes, providing nuclear material to terrorists. Also, a month or so before OBL 'was killed', there was a threat by Al Qaeda that in case OBL gets killed, there will be a nuclear strike on some western city. And boom, magically he dies.

It's so obvious you can see it coming. The day is not far. Pakistan is at war with the US.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

RazorMC said:


> I guess he was referring to the focus now turning to Karachi.


 
That could also be coincidental with the increased operations in the Tribal areas and the resulting population shift to Karachi and elsewhere, that also allowed extremists/terrorists to move there and plot new attacks.

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## IFB

RIP to the dead.

CNN has finally woken up and covering the event.


----------



## DV RULES

sandy_3126 said:


> no inquiry ,,, no investigation... straight verdict....


 
*I said probably * 
Use some sense while making reply.


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## DelhiDareDevil

DV RULES said:


> *I said probably *
> *Use some sense *while making reply.


 
Well probably means more then 50% chance. So same thing applies to you.


----------



## AAtish

innocentboy said:


> Well I agree with you 100%. There are reports that RD was part of the game, as his duty was to deliver Uranium to the terrorists, thereafter whistles were to be blown that Nukes are not safe. But RD drama was nicely ended by ISI. Now they are coming with these kind of attacks, to achieve the ultimate objective i.e. disarming Pakistan from nuclear weapons.
> 
> Now call me conspiracy theorist.


 
Conspiracy theorist.. Happy now?

well i agree to you, that is why there was OBL drama, and then a streak of terrorist activities, attacks on Rangers, Police, PA.. and now PN.. means even the security agencies are vulnerable.. so its time to take nuclear capability away from such country..

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## Evil Flare

IFB said:


> RIP to the dead.
> 
> CNN has finally woken up and covering the event.


 
Website shows nothing ... After 4 hours still no news on website .. might they'll know in advance ?


----------



## FreekiN

Is it over???


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## DelhiDareDevil

We need to wait 3-4 days after incident is over to get full story and evidence on this.


----------



## Dance

Aamir Zia said:


> Website shows nothing ... After 4 hours still no news on website .. might they'll know in advance ?


 
I find it interesting that they haven't reported this considering they usually report something negative about Pakistan almost daily

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## Hammy007

DV RULES said:


> *I said probably *
> Use some sense while making reply.


 
he is probably worried that indian connection miht be discovered


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## S.M.R

Commandos are now for arrest rather than killing. PNS Mehran under total control, Terrorist are be confined into limited area. Bravo


----------



## no_koadsheding_plz

Cheetah786 said:


> There is no body living in south waziristan other then Pak army yeah and every body walking around is taliban only let me guess you are a terrorist sympathizer.


 if telling someone that there is difference between a terroirist group living somewhere and that particular area is a you definitiomn of terrorist sympathizer then i fall in ur definition,, otherwise u are brainwashed into believing what the hypocrites feed into ur mind,, 

revisit ur statement ,, let me tell u that there are 7 tribal agencies that make fata,, so u want to nuke them all? hmmm? and in your opinion that will clean all terrorists?


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## HAIDER

Wonder when Pakistani govt knows Alkaida is running like mad dog and on top wikileak publish reports and making Pak forces life more miserable , why they don't take extreme measure for the safety of such installation.


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## ramu

Estimates of assets in the Naval base is set at $ 5 to 8 Billion.  A Pakistani ex-naval officer being interviewed.


----------



## RazorMC

GEO NEWS UPDATE: 6 terrorists killed - 4 arrested - 4 Navy officials martyred and 9 injured.

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## AAtish

Aamir Zia said:


> Website shows nothing ... After 4 hours still no news on website .. might they'll know in advance ?


 
There are waiting before releasing the news. incase they make a mistake like 9/11 when they released the news of building 7 getting destroyed even before it did..


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## Cheetah786

More then 15 terrorist but not confirmed so the don't no how many in the building terrorist are heavily armed so this fight can go on.

4 Navy personals confirmed Martyed 9 injured


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## Dance

HAIDER said:


> Wonder when Pakistani govt knows Alkaida is running like mad dog and on top wikileak publish reports and making Pak forces life more miserable , why they don't take extreme measure for the safety of such installation.


 
Pakistan government does not care about Pakistan. They're more interested in putting American aid money in their bank accounts.


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## Spring Onion

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Capturing the terrorists alive can be a bad thing, as the terrorist can hold hostages in future as a bargaining chip to get the captured terrorists back.
> 
> Thats one reason why US navy seals killed a unarmed Osama Bin Laden.


  so why you captured kasab alive ??

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## DV RULES

Hammy007 said:


> he is probably worried that indian connection miht be discovered


 
As theory i can't ignore this point.

Is there any latest update from there?


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## Pioneerfirst

innocentboy said:


> Well I agree with you 100%. There are reports that RD was part of the game, as his duty was to deliver Uranium to the terrorists, thereafter whistles were to be blown that Nukes are not safe. But RD drama was nicely ended by ISI. Now they are coming with these kind of attacks, to achieve the ultimate objective i.e. disarming Pakistan from nuclear weapons.
> 
> Now call me conspiracy theorist.



Nukes are not a AK-47 that it can be stolen.

Nukes are stored in the forms of parts most important is fissile material.These parts are joined to get a operateable weapon.All the parts are stored at different locations .Even if someone gets the part they cant not make weapon out of it. 

But this time is not of talking nukes.We have lost more useful item i-e PC3 orions worth of hundreds of millions.
We should talk about one point agenda i-e Taliban are our enemies.


----------



## IFB

Aamir Zia said:


> Website shows nothing ... After 4 hours still no news on website .. *might they'll know in advance *?


 
The bolded part i dont understand.

They were showing it on CNN for 5 mins then they turned to yemen for some reason....may be they are gathering info as we speak wait a few more hours to see .


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## somebozo

For some reason this rings some bells and whistles about RD case...most likely he was evaluating targets of key value to shame Pakistani security from with in and looks like Zardari made a good middle man commision in executing the RD staged "blood money" deal.



> ISLAMABAD: Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Lt-Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha told the joint parliamentary session that CIA contractor and killer of two Pakistanis Raymond Davis was handed over to the US on orders of President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani, a PML-N MP quoted the chief spymaster as saying.


----------



## SpArK

24.87122, 67.11050 - Google Maps

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## desioptimist

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Cause India has strenghten India-Pak border.
> 
> However the problem is internal in Pakistan and is a different case.


 
Capturing them live can give info regarding the support network. But security of the commandos is also important they need to take the call.


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## Evil Flare

Confirmed .. only 1 plane is damaged nothing else .


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## IFB

Here they updated the site
CNN) -- At least 10 militants attacked a naval air station in the coastal city of Karachi late Sunday, leading to several explosions and an hourslong firefight with Pakistani forces that killed two naval officials, Pakistani officials and witnesses said.

The attackers and Pakistani forces -- which included marines and commandos -- continued to exchange fire into Monday morning on the grounds of the Mehran base, Pakistani navy spokesman Irfan Ul Haq told CNN.

In addition to the two naval officials killed, two others were injured in the attack, Haq said.

Amjad Bashir, a witness talking from outside the facility, said as of 1 a.m. Monday he had heard at least six explosions over the previous two hours. Rounds of gunfire rang out regularly, large plumes of smoke rose from part of the base, and a military aircraft was on fire, according to Bashir.

The damaged plane is a P-3C Orion, according to Haq. Supplied by the U.S. government, the P-3C Orion is a "four-engine, turbo-prop, anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft," according to the U.S. Navy's website.

Ten to 15 suspected terrorists carried hand grenades, automatic weapons and rockets when they launched their assault late Sunday, Haq said.

The nation's military personnel responded with what Pakistani Interior Minister Rehman Malik called a "major operation" at the naval base, which is about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from Karachi's main airport.

According to the Pakistani navy's website, the Mehran base "is efficiently supporting day and night operational activities of all (naval aviation) squadrons." A host of courses are also offered on its grounds, from helicopter and air navigation instruction to sea survival.

Karachi itself, which is considered the main commercial hub of Pakistan, has seen a drastic increase in political, ethnic and religious violence in recent months.

Just over three weeks ago, three people were killed and at least 20 others were injured when a hand grenade exploded at a gambling club in the southern Pakistani city.

The grenade was tossed into the club by one of two unidentified people riding past the facility on a motorbike, according to Javed Baloch, a senior police official in Karachi.

The Taliban were behind an April 28 roadside bombing on a main road through Karachi that left at least five dead and 10 injured, according to Ihsan Ullah Ihsan, a spokesman for the group.

Two days earlier, three were killed and more than 30 wounded when remote-controlled bombs detonated near two buses carrying Pakistani navy officials. 

Official: 2 killed after militants attack Pakistani naval air station - CNN.com


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## SSGPA1

Any furtehr news about the attack? I am surfing but there are conflicting reports from all over the place.


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## Evil Flare

desioptimist said:


> Capturing them live can give info regarding the support network. But security of the commandos is also important they need to take the call.


 
do security forces have sleeping gas ?


----------



## AAtish

There is nothing confirmed about any of the terrorist being foreigner.. but this has been confirmed that they are highly trained physically, technically and technologically.. Babar saleem, Dunya News..


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## Gin ka Pakistan

The navel Chief and head of security should resign ASAP. They failed to protect the base which was suppose to protect to the nation by some stone age people. 
But wait how cane stone age people can do a attack like this? Is it revenge of Mombay attack and why navy ? 

Navy has nothing to do with WOT ? its deep 

Next time some from Pakistan will day our Assets are save , who gana believe them.


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## SparklingCrescent

a pretty serious attack I must say, Im guessing SSGN, and other security officials were never trained for such moments, and we never learn from the past either... sigh.... Anyways, tomorrow unfortunately no one will ever know the other side of the story (other than the Army's "heroic" version of it) and no one will know whose behind such damn killings.

God help Pakistan..


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## Safriz

I am worried that with current rate of terrorist attack..pretty soon they are gona run out of high value targets.....


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## American Eagle

There are some who still don't understand that terrorism and their murderous acts have to be wiped out. You cannot coddle pathologically brainwashed in the name of an extreme man made version of Islam or otherwise expect that all of sudden one day they will go away and behave themselves. These folks are brainwashed, particularly from the Wahabbist madrassahs of more recent years, but in some cases kidnapping of whole families is being done to force a young child or teenager to be a suicide bomber...with their family held as ransom, but not necessarily then released, either.

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## Meengla

roadrunner said:


> I wasn't thinking of informers reporting on unusual activities.
> 
> Pakistan's problem is partly that. But partly the foreigners that enter and cause mayhem.
> 
> The KGB would roam around the Soviet Union asking people for their papers. If they could not show they were Soviet then they could be arrested. That's what Pakistan needs also. It's a security problem.


 
[I think since the PAF base attack is an obvious security breach so this discussion is pertinent.]

Yes, what you say is needed but, IMHO, it is NOT sufficient. Lets face it: Police, rangers, ISI, military, FC etc are over-stretched as it is. During my last visit to Karachi in November 2009 I was told that the Rangers deployed at various points in the city were so terrified for their own safety that any approaching vehicles aroused their fears. The recent attack against the 'Chechens' where women/kids were killed was probably a manifestation of the security agencies' fatigue, paranoia, and jitterness.
Pakistan badly NEEDS a vast setup of informers who get rewarded for every successful 'tip'. Bypass the courts for such information. Military sets up 'cells' to go through these. Right now, most 'suspicious' or 'odd' activities seen by neighborhood folks are just shrugged off. Look at what even OBL neighbors said: They just thought it was 'odd' house but then shrugged off. What if some neighbors saw these terrorists who attacked the base today and just shrugged off? Hey, it is the job of the ISI. So why should I care?
I know there will be some abuse. Some revenge. But still better than what is happening right now. And I don't feel good about such Draconian steps. But they are necessary.


----------



## S.M.R

Pioneerfirst said:


> *Nukes are not a AK-47 that it can be stolen.*
> 
> Nukes are stored in the forms of parts most important is fissile material.These parts are joined to get a operateable weapon.All the parts are stored at different locations .Even if someone gets the part they cant not make weapon out of it.
> 
> But this time is not of talking nukes.We have lost more useful item i-e PC3 orions worth of hundreds of millions.
> We should talk about one point agenda i-e Taliban are our enemies.


 
Can you get Uncle Sam understand that? Well thanks for telling me about the Nukes.

Now one point agenda: that Taliban is our enemies. Why??? what damage we have given to Talibans? can you tell me?
Talibans (were born in Afghanistan) dont have the capacity to attack US, therefore in return they are targeting Pakistan being the sucker of US.
There cant be one point agenda, as you just looking at the finished form of product ignoring the components of that product.

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## bandit

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Flooding water in the form of a tsunami and an earthquake - 10 to 12 men with grenades and assault rifles (being actively countered by security forces as in the case of the GHQ and base attack) can\'t replicate that kind of destructive force.
> 
> What are you smoking?


 
He is not smoking anything....his point is valid....you are just desperately trying to prove your point.

The force of the earthquake and tsunami was not the reason for the fukushima meltdown. The loss of power subsequent to the earthquake was. How is it not feasible for jihadis to cut the power off with rockets and bombs for a couple of hours ensuring its meltdown?

Stop trying to defnd the indefensible here, this is real now.


----------



## Evil Flare

3:15am
Five people have been killed in the attack  four Navy personnel and one Rangers personnel.
Interior Minister Rehman Malik has arrived in Karachi.


RIP Brave soldiers ... Inshallah we will wipe these extremist & their ideology


----------



## AAtish

American Eagle said:


> There are some who still don't understand that terrorism and their murderous acts have to be wiped out. You cannot coddle pathologically brainwashed in the name of an extreme man made version of Islam or otherwise expect that all of sudden one day they will go away and behave themselves. These folks are brainwashed, particularly from the Wahabbist madrassahs of more recent years, but in some cases kidnapping of whole families is being done to force a young child or teenager to be a suicide bomber...with their family held as ransom, but not necessarily then released, either.


 
Please do not comment on something which you do not understand.. go drink you beer and have a Big Mac.. we'll deal with our problems ourself.. thanks

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## aks18

American Eagle said:


> There are some who still don't understand that terrorism and their murderous acts have to be wiped out. You cannot coddle pathologically brainwashed in the name of an extreme man made version of Islam or otherwise expect that all of sudden one day they will go away and behave themselves. These folks are brainwashed, particularly from the Wahabbist madrassahs of more recent years, but in some cases kidnapping of whole families is being done to force a young child or teenager to be a suicide bomber...with their family held as ransom, but not necessarily then released, either.



one thing i dont understand before 2001 there was not such item call terrorism the day you americans entered in this region we are facing such things a lot :S


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## Donatello

American Eagle said:


> There are some who still don't understand that terrorism and their murderous acts have to be wiped out. You cannot coddle pathologically brainwashed in the name of an extreme man made version of Islam or otherwise expect that all of sudden one day they will go away and behave themselves. These folks are brainwashed, particularly from the Wahabbist madrassahs of more recent years, but in some cases kidnapping of whole families is being done to force a young child or teenager to be a suicide bomber...with their family held as ransom, but not necessarily then released, either.




and how do you know so much? did you visit any of the wahabist madressahs? Do you even know what Wahabi, Sunni, Shiite and Sufi mean? other than Fox news bullshyt.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

The navel Chief , Air Chief and head of security should resign ASAP. They failed to protect the base which was suppose to protect the nation by some stone age people. 
But wait how can stone age people can do a attack like this? Is it revenge of Mombay attack and why navy ? 

Navy has nothing to do with WOT ? its deep , is it inside job ? 

Next time some from Pakistan will say our Assets are save , who gana believe them.

So many questions 
1. Is it Arabs , taking Osama revenge?
2. Is it stone age people of Afghanistan Pakistan boarder
3. Is it RAW and Afghan combine attack , with blessing of CIA
4. Or is it Inside job , rebalians in ISI


----------



## pakdefender

American Eagle said:


> There are some who still don't understand that terrorism and their murderous acts have to be wiped out. You cannot coddle pathologically brainwashed in the name of an extreme man made version of Islam or otherwise expect that all of sudden one day they will go away and behave themselves. These folks are brainwashed, particularly from the Wahabbist madrassahs of more recent years, but in some cases kidnapping of whole families is being done to force a young child or teenager to be a suicide bomber...with their family held as ransom, but not necessarily then released, either.



you people are part of the problem and not the solution

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## Hammy007

it is possible that cia guys sent some guys to capture some info, destroy some valuables, transmit them and then be killed


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## aks18

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> The navel Chief , Air Chief and head of security should resign ASAP. They failed to protect the base which was suppose to protect the nation by some stone age people.
> But wait how can stone age people can do a attack like this? Is it revenge of Mombay attack and why navy ?
> 
> Navy has nothing to do with WOT ? its deep , is it inside job ?
> 
> Next time some from Pakistan will day our Assets are save , who gana believe them.
> 
> So many questions
> 1. Is it Arabs , taking Osama revenge?
> 2. Is it stone age people of Afghanistan Pakistan boarder
> *3. Is it RAW and Afghan combine attack , with blessing of CIA*
> 4. Or is it Inside job , rebalians in ISI


 

the equipment they are using can only be provided by them.

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## Hammy007

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> The navel Chief , Air Chief and head of security should resign ASAP. They failed to protect the base which was suppose to protect the nation by some stone age people.
> But wait how can stone age people can do a attack like this? Is it revenge of Mombay attack and why navy ?
> 
> Navy has nothing to do with WOT ? its deep , is it inside job ?
> 
> Next time some from Pakistan will day our Assets are save , who gana believe them.
> 
> So many questions
> 1. Is it Arabs , taking Osama revenge?
> 2. Is it stone age people of Afghanistan Pakistan boarder
> 3. Is it RAW and Afghan combine attack , with blessing of CIA
> 4.* Or is it Inside job , rebalians in ISI*


 
it might very much be possible because for the first time military is trying to capture them alive


----------



## desiman

Hammy007 said:


> it is possible that cia guys sent some guys to capture some info, destroy some valuables, transmit them and then be killed


 
wow just wow


----------



## Hammy007

American Eagle said:


> There are some who still don't understand that terrorism and their murderous acts have to be wiped out. You cannot coddle pathologically brainwashed in the name of an extreme man made version of Islam or otherwise expect that all of sudden one day they will go away and behave themselves. These folks are brainwashed, particularly from the Wahabbist madrassahs of more recent years, but in some cases kidnapping of whole families is being done to force a young child or teenager to be a suicide bomber...with their family held as ransom, but not necessarily then released, either.


 
here you go

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-fo...u-lectures-obama-oval-office.html#post1775565


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Hammy007 said:


> it is possible that cia guys sent some guys to capture some info, destroy some valuables, transmit them and then be killed


 
Any Thing can be possible , with Gen Zia US ambassador was killed too.


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## Dance

Col.Waheed Ahmer of SSG incharge of the operation in #PNS #Mehran. They have 2 terrorists in custody now

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## HAIDER

Well, media report say 4 arrested ..


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## AAtish

PN - Comdr. Irfan ul Huq.. No details can be given about terrorist deaths.. operation is still going on.. nothing can be said yet.. (geo news, 5 min ago)


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## Evil Flare

*End of live updates*
3:15am
Navy spokesman confirms five people have been killed in the attack  four Navy personnel and one Rangers personnel.
Interior Minister Rehman Malik has arrived in Karachi.


WHY ??


----------



## pakdefender

the only offical detail given out is that first and foremost the buildings and assets inside the base have been secured , they are being tight lipped about any other details


----------



## SMC

Time to exterminate each CIA operative one by one. ISI knows at least about some of them. These guys are probably on CIA payroll as well.


----------



## Donatello

Some PN guy, i don't know, maybe retired, was giving interview on geo tv that such lapses of security happened in US, Bagram airbase, bla bla....like WTF. Someone should have shot that f***in retard.


----------



## AAtish

Aamir Zia said:


> *End of live updates*
> 3:15am
> Navy spokesman confirms five people have been killed in the attack  four Navy personnel and one Rangers personnel.
> Interior Minister Rehman Malik has arrived in Karachi.
> 
> 
> WHY ??


 
He would give his statement in a moment..

"Pak Navy should know that we are keeping a very keen eye on them, so they should not do this and that.. " ..

that fcuker.. If killing someone was allowed, i would have happily killed him..


----------



## Donatello

AAtish said:


> He would give his statement in a moment..
> 
> "Pak Navy should know that we are keeping a very keen eye on them, so they should not do this and that.. " ..
> 
> that fcuker.. If killing someone was allowed, i would have happily killed him..


 

.......or maybe the entire PPP entourage.


----------



## SSGPA1

Aamir Zia said:


> *End of live updates*
> 3:15am
> Navy spokesman confirms five people have been killed in the attack  four Navy personnel and one Rangers personnel.
> Interior Minister Rehman Malik has arrived in Karachi.
> 
> 
> WHY ??


 
A couple years ago, the US tried to put him incharge of the ISI and I believe that this is another attempt. Only this time they are trying to socailize the idea first by sending him instead of the defence minister. 

Nawaz and Zardari are working together to put ISI under civilian control at the behest of the US and Malik is spear heading that effort.

Lets wait and see response from the concerned quarters


----------



## roadrunner

penumbra said:


> Some PN guy, i don't know, maybe retired, was giving interview on geo tv that such lapses of security happened in US, Bagram airbase, bla bla....like WTF. Someone should have shot that f***in retard.


 
It would normally be impossible to get anywhere near a military base. But rockets and military planes were blown up by alleged Al Q cavemen. 

The question is whether the security was good enough and these were well connected attackers, or whether anyone can sneak into Pakistan's military bases. 

If the second then that's a security lapse, if the first they need to find out who is doing it and why.


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## Dance

Someone posted this on twitter and it's pretty true unfortunately:

Life in Pakistan, circa 2011: go to bed to bad news. Wake up to bad news.. Repeat.

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## S.M.R

roadrunner said:


> It would normally be impossible to get anywhere near a military base. But rockets and military planes were blown up by alleged Al Q cavemen.
> 
> The question is whether the security was good enough and these were well connected attackers, or *whether anyone can sneak *into Pakistan's military bases.
> 
> If the second then that's a security lapse, if the first they need to find out who is doing it and why.


 
Well, It is not ANYONE, they are well trained as well as well equipped, SSG of army is facing retaliation from the people who might are trained as good as SSG.


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## Super Falcon

well well well no gurantee of safeness in pakistan now our security misreably failled our armed forces have failed to save us now one place in pak we thought were safe now it is also been attacked this is failure of armed forces 

when navy was attacked repetedly what security was doing what ISI was doing they are sleeping this is a fact

when US helicopter came and passed entire pakistan from afghan border to karachi sea port and took ladin to carrier well all radar inside pakistan was taken off yes our forces were involved in it how stupid people are if i get air chief i will slap straight on his face yes if radars were not able to detect in afghan mountains yes this can happen when army man was near and operation of 40 mon was happenong in abbotabad is entir kakul academy was sleeping yes and when plaing areas on entire punjab and sindh been paseed by helicopter still our radars cant detect it i want to slap on our armed forces they have failed they have no right to take sallaries they are useless we dont have any probleum friends our armed forces is itslef is liar and probleum for us


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## FreekiN

yaar mein to tukh gyaa hoon istra ki khabrein suun suun ke. 

im taking a break. this is some depressing sh.t.

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## SSGPA1

Here are some factsconfirmed so far :

1. 10 or 15 terrorists entered the base. (not clear how)
2. Army and navy commandos are fighting the attackers and also guarding assets inside the base.
3. Four navy personnel were killed and 9 were injured.
4. Two P-3C Orion were targeted in the attack - one severly damaged.
5. No hostages so far.


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## zer0

This country needs to be run by the military. It can not survive under civilian rule, the sad fact is that all of our people become greedy and lose any self control they might have when given power and money. This is not the pakistan that Qaid-e-Azam dreamed of. TOTAL Opposite. 
I wish this country had a reboot button, wouldnt that be great.


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## SSGPA1

Super Falcon said:


> well well well no gurantee of safeness in pakistan now our security misreably failled our armed forces have failed to save us now one place in pak we thought were safe now it is also been attacked this is failure of armed forces
> 
> when navy was attacked repetedly what security was doing what ISI was doing they are sleeping this is a fact
> 
> when US helicopter came and passed entire pakistan from afghan border to karachi sea port and took ladin to carrier well all radar inside pakistan was taken off yes our forces were involved in it how stupid people are if i get air chief i will slap straight on his face yes if radars were not able to detect in afghan mountains yes this can happen when army man was near and operation of 40 mon was happenong in abbotabad is entir kakul academy was sleeping yes and when plaing areas on entire punjab and sindh been paseed by helicopter still our radars cant detect it i want to slap on our armed forces they have failed they have no right to take sallaries they are useless we dont have any probleum friends our armed forces is itslef is liar and probleum for us



This is exactly what our enemies want us to believe so please stand behind the armed forces. This crappy situation will not continue for long insha-Allah change is near.


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## S.M.R

One building is in control of terrorists. RM.


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## DV RULES

Super Falcon said:


> well well well no gurantee of safeness in pakistan now our security misreably failled our armed forces have failed to save us now one place in pak we thought were safe now it is also been attacked this is failure of armed forces
> 
> when navy was attacked repetedly what security was doing what ISI was doing they are sleeping this is a fact
> 
> when US helicopter came and passed entire pakistan from afghan border to karachi sea port and took ladin to carrier well all radar inside pakistan was taken off yes our forces were involved in it how stupid people are if i get air chief i will slap straight on his face yes if radars were not able to detect in afghan mountains yes this can happen when army man was near and operation of 40 mon was happenong in abbotabad is entir kakul academy was sleeping yes and when plaing areas on entire punjab and sindh been paseed by helicopter still our radars cant detect it i want to slap on our armed forces they have failed they have no right to take sallaries they are useless we dont have any probleum friends our armed forces is itslef is liar and probleum for us


 
Ok, we know that. Tell us please what should be change if PA is liar and what solution you can propose in this situation?


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## American Pakistani

extract every drop of information from these b*st*rds, who send them/fund them, what is their nationality etc etc.

Later Fire Pasha from his office, he is pure failure, whoever extend his service was #1 idiot.


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## Dance

So the operation is still going on?


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## zer0

We need Musharaf!!!! Only leader with balls. For fcuk sakes, benazir had more balls than most of past leaders. our leaders should be hanged in public for fcuking up the country, all their assets ceased.

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## Super Falcon

the situation is this send all those officers home who came under a privilage of army govt what kiyan is doing nothing infact he is blackmailling govt govt is a dummy if they are not liars how can radars cannot detect helis when they passed entire pakistan man and infront of you home of army operation was happening what army did nothing man we have probleum with army why they cannot stop this bloodshed for last ten years why they are silent if they know which groups are doing it why they dont go at their hom and fight man our army is sold out already you see they have better lifes than a common pakistani why army never be like it they take all bad things on them and save their nations both financially and saving the nation what they have done till now nothing man they are useless what is the use of that force which cannot save their nation and what enemies you are talking about why not army take the names of that people or country man for last ten years terrorist only attacking pak no attacks in afghanistan why do you have any answers becoz our army is not sincere with country


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## Geronimo2011

SMC said:


> Time to exterminate each CIA operative one by one. ISI knows at least about some of them. These guys are probably on CIA payroll as well.


 
Dude.. ISI doesnt even know who is entering your air bases.. Forget the CIA identities. I remember one of the think tanks making a statement on this forum about how CIA can not even find the way to their cars in the parking lot without ISI help. 2 Days later CIA showed the middle finger to all such claims by knocking of OBL in Abbotabad. Get off the high horse (that only exists in your imagination ) and recognize the real enemy..

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## Super Falcon

russia only had one attack after 2003 sir yes in 2003 in russia also got attackes but after that terrorist never came back why do you have answer i have terrorist never died but russia made full proof security and more than this the put their secret agents on 24 7 job and been sincere with country and you see result


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## Evil Flare

Honest Abdul said:


> *Final tally...*
> 3 P3C Orions
> 1 Atlantique
> 1 Z9EC


 
prove it ...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Aamir Zia said:


> prove it ...


 
Leave him..... hes a ex banned troll...... look at his username......... and guess it.


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## Porus

zer0 said:


> This country needs to be run by the military. It can not survive under civilian rule, the sad fact is that all of our people become greedy and lose any self control they might have when given power and money. This is not the pakistan that Qaid-e-Azam dreamed of. TOTAL Opposite.
> I wish this country had a reboot button, wouldnt that be great.



Surprise, surprise! The military is running this country, directly or indirectly, since its inception and there is no evidence that suggests that it was Jinnah's dream that this country would be run by its miltary.


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

bandit said:


> He is not smoking anything....his point is valid....you are just desperately trying to prove your point.
> 
> The force of the earthquake and tsunami was not the reason for the fukushima meltdown. The loss of power subsequent to the earthquake was. How is it not feasible for jihadis to cut the power off with rockets and bombs for a couple of hours ensuring its meltdown?
> 
> Stop trying to defnd the indefensible here, this is real now.


 
How is it not feasible for 'power' to be cut by downing transmission lines?

Doesn't need an attack on a nuclear plant to do that.

There are back-up generators in place, and for terrorists to be able to take out main and backup power sources would require a prolonged and largely uninterrupted presence inside a nuclear power plant or facility, which is not possible, as can be see with the GHQ and PN Base attacks.

I am not defending the indefensible, you lot are coming up with rubbish to justify your nonsensical arguments about the lack of safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets.

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## Super Falcon

well atlantiques were retired sir you check ur info


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Super Falcon said:


> russia only had one attack after 2003 sir yes in 2003 in russia also got attackes but after that terrorist never came back why do you have answer i have terrorist never died but russia made full proof security and more than this the put their secret agents on 24 7 job and been sincere with country and you see result


 
I am sure you are also aware of atrocities committed by Russian security forces in Chechnya and elsewhere, and the methods used to quell the rebellions and terrorism.

Do you really want Pakistan to replicate that?


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## bandit

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> How is it not feasible for 'power' to be cut by downing transmission lines?
> 
> Doesn't need an attack on a nuclear plant to do that.




There are back-up generators in place, and for terrorists to be able to take out main and backup power sources would require a prolonged and largely uninterrupted presence inside a nuclear power plant or facility, which is not possible, as can be see with the GHQ and PN Base attacks.

You answer your logic with the red part....backup is in place.



> I am not defending the indefensible, you lot are coming up with rubbish to justify your nonsensical arguments about the lack of safety of Pakistan's nuclear assets.


 
What makes you think terrorists cannot take out a backup generator and lines with rocket launchers? 

Do you not see the rubbish and non-sensical arguments you are trying to make here?


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## Super Falcon

The P-3 Orion land-based maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare aircraft is operational in the airforces of ten countries. More than 700 P-3 aircraft have been built by Lockheed Martin.

The 227 aircraft in the US Navy fleet have been reduced to 170 and will be further reduced to 130 by 2010. The P-3 will then be phased out following the introduction of the P-6 Multi-mission Maritime Aircraft (MMA) from 2013.


"The P-3 Orion is a land-based maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare aircraft."
The aircraft is also in service with Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Chile, Greece, Iran, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, South Korea, Spain and Thailand.

It carries the United States Navy designation P-3, the Canadian Forces designations CP-140 Aurora and CP-140A Arcturus, and the Spanish Air Force designation P.3.

The P-3A was first operational in the United States Navy in 1962. The P-3C first entered service in 1969 and has been continuously upgraded and updated with new avionics systems and mission equipment.

P-3C UPGRADE PROGRAMMES

In 1975 an improved navigation system, expanded computer memory, and tactical displays were provided under the Update I programme. In 1976 the Update II programme provided an infrared detection system and sonobuoy reference system and the aircraft were fitted with the Harpoon missile. The P-3C aircraft to the Upgrade III standard, delivered in 1984, were equipped with advanced anti-submarine warfare avionics including the IBM Proteus AN/UYS-1 acoustic processor.

Update IV programme improvements, mainly directed towards the provision of advanced signal processing capabilities, were implemented during the 1990s to meet the threat of new-generation fast, quiet and deep diving submarines. The aircraft are equipped with Raytheon AN/APS-137(V) multi-mission surveillance radar.

International upgrade programmes include 18 aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force upgraded to AP-3C standard. The upgrade includes the installation of an Elta Electronics EL/M-2022(V)3 maritime surveillance radar and a FLIR Systems Star SAFIRE II thermal imager. Deliveries concluded in March 2005.

Eight aircraft upgraded for the Royal Netherlands Navy have been sold to the German Navy. The upgrade included new Electronic Support Measures (ESM), radar and acoustic sensors, new data management system and new communications suite. EADS CASA is upgrading nine aircraft of the Brazilian Air Force. This upgrade includes Thales integrated cockpit avionics and the EADS CASA FITS mission system.

New Zealand has selected L-3 Communications to upgrade six P-3K aircraft with new mission systems. The upgrade will also include new communications and navigation equipment.

"The P-3A was first operational in the United States Navy in 1962."
Pakistan has purchased seven upgraded ex-US Navy P-3C aircraft and ordered the upgrade of two Pakistan Navy aircraft. The upgrade includes Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR/SAR), Electronic Support Measures (ESM) and communication systems. The first was delivered in January 2007.

Kawasaki Heavy Industries Ltd, based in Kobe, Japan, manufactures the P-3C aircraft in Japan under licensed agreement. Kawasaki is the prime contractor to the Japan Maritime Self-Defence Force (JMSDF) for the supply of up to 110 P-3C aircraft. Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries (IHI), based in Tokyo, manufactures the engines.

CREW STATIONS

The aircraft is flown by a crew of ten on missions up to 14 hours long. The flight deck accommodates the pilot, the co-pilot and the flight engineer.

The main cabin is configured as a mission operations room for the tactical coordinator, the navigator and communications operator, two operators for the acoustic sensor suite, the electromagnetic sensors systems operator (responsible for the operation of the radar, electronic support measures, infrared detection system and magnetic anomaly detectors), the ordnance crew member and the flight technician. Circular protruding windows in the main cabin give the crew a 180° view.

ANTI-SUBMARINE WARFARE SYSTEMS

The P-3C's anti-submarine warfare systems include the AN/ARR-78(V) sonobuoy receiving system supplied by Hazeltine Corporation of New York, the AN/ARR-72 sonobuoy receiver supplied by Fighting Electronics Inc of New York for the operation and management of buoys, two AQA-7 directional acoustic frequency analysis and recording sonobuoy indicators, and a AQH-4 (V) sonar tape recorder.

The sensor suite also includes an ASQ-81 magnetic anomaly detector and an ASA-65 magnetic compensator. Sonobuoys are launched from within the main cabin and from the external hardpoints.

The airborne electronic surveillance receiver, ALQ-78(V) is carried on a pylon under the wing fairing. The system is supplied by Lockheed Martin based in New York and has also been manufactured under licence by Mitsubishi in Japan.

The ALQ-78(V) automatically operates in search mode, its target primarily being submarine radars. When a submarine radar signal is detected the system is switched to direction finding mode and the received signals are characterised.

"The P-3C Orion maritime patrol aircraft can carry weapons in the bomb bay and on ten underwing pylons."
WEAPONS

The aircraft can carry weapons in the bomb bay and on ten underwing pylons. The bomb bay is in the underside of the fuselage forward of the wing. It is capable of carrying a 2,000lb mine such as the mk25, mk39, mk55 or mk56. Alternative ordnance includes 1,000lb mines, depth bombs, torpedoes, or nuclear depth bombs. The underwing pylons can carry 2,000lb mines, torpedoes, rockets, rocket pods and 500lb mines.

The US Navy P-3C aircraft are equipped to carry the Harpoon AGM-84 anti-ship and stand-off land attack missile. During the late 1990s the US Navy P-3C Orions armed with the Harpoon were deployed in Yugoslavia. US Navy P-3Cs are also being upgraded with the WESCAM 20 multi-sensor system, which includes thermal imager and CCD sensors.

In February 2004, the Boeing SLAM-ER standoff land attack missile completed integration on the US Navy P-3C Orion. 59 aircraft are to be modified to carry the missile by the end of 2004.

ENGINES

The aircraft is equipped with four Allison T56-A-14 turboprop engines rated at 3,661kW. Each engine drives a four-blade constant-speed propeller, type 54H60-77 supplied by Hamilton Standard. There are five fuel tanks, one in the fuselage and four integral wing tanks with a total fuel capacity of 34,800l.



Expand Image
The P-3C Orion is the US Navy's maritime patrol and anti-submarine warfare aircraft.


Expand Image
US Navy P-3Cs are armed with the Harpoon anti-ship and stand-off land attack missile.


Expand Image
The latest aircraft are equipped with Raytheon AN/APS-137(V) multi-mission surveillance radar.


Expand Image
The P-3C is capable of maritime patrol missions up to 14 hours long.


Expand Image
The ASW equipment includes AN/AAR-78(V) sonobuoys, AN/ASQ-81 magnetic anomaly detectors and AN/ASA-65 magnetic compensator.


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## zer0

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I am sure you are also aware of atrocities committed by Russian security forces in Chechnya and elsewhere, and the methods used to quell the rebellions and terrorism.
> 
> Do you really want Pakistan to replicate that?


 
With all the happening right now, YES. I would love to see pakistan replicate that. 
Not long ago china cleaned up the country by shooting all drugies on sight. Something similar needs to happen here.


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## Evil Flare




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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

bandit said:


> There are back-up generators in place, and for terrorists to be able to take out main and backup power sources would require a prolonged and largely uninterrupted presence inside a nuclear power plant or facility, which is not possible, as can be see with the GHQ and PN Base attacks.
> 
> You answer your logic with the red part....backup is in place.


How does my post answer my own question?

Are the backup power sources located at the same point as the main power source? How far apart? What security measures? How many perimeters have to be crossed before all power sources can be cut off? If one source is attacked, that tips off everyone that an attack is underway which means the other sources will be almost impossible to get to.

You have offered nothing in terms of how terrorists would address the logistical and security challenges in almost simultaneously destroying all power sources in a plant and causing a meltdown. 

Assuming terrorists breach the outermost perimeter of a NPP, then what?



What makes you think terrorists cannot take out a backup generator and lines with rocket launchers? 

Do you not see the rubbish and non-sensical arguments you are trying to make here?[/QUOTE]


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

zer0 said:


> With all the happening right now, YES. I would love to see pakistan replicate that.
> Not long ago china cleaned up the country by shooting all drugies on sight. Something similar needs to happen here.


 
And who is going to take care of the 'drama' that is then put on, such as the one related to the five Chechen terrorists gunned down by the FC in Quetta?

Or the 'Asma Jahangir's and our 'moral politicians' ranting and raving about the 'missing persons' and 'soldiers committing extra judicial killings'?


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## deckingraj

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> I am sure you are also aware of atrocities committed by Russian security forces in Chechnya and elsewhere, and the methods used to quell the rebellions and terrorism.
> 
> Do you really want Pakistan to replicate that?



Agno - I believe the real trouble is

- Pakistan kept saying that she is not indulged in nuclear proliferation...Guess what AQ Khan was right there...
- Pakistan kept saying that her soil will not be allowed to use against any country for terrorism. Guess what - Non state actors are right there....
- Pakistan kept saying OBL is not in Pakistan..Guess what he was right under the nose of garrison town
- Pakistan always says - nukes are safe - and now we are witnessing an attack on Naval Base....

If someone is getting concerned then you cannot rebuff them by saying what are you smoking...The concerns are genuine...On the periphery it simply looks that the current attack has inside support..what actually happened probably we will never know because it is very hard to believe what Pak establishment says(both military and civilian)....It can very well be a nuclear installation...Anyways - Pakistan needs to get a grip on the situation and that too fast...


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Porus said:


> Surprise, surprise! The military is running this country, directly or indirectly, since its inception and there is no evidence that suggests that it was Jinnah's dream that this country would be run by its miltary.


 
If the military really had that much influence over the current government, Hussain Haqqani would not be ambassador to the US, Ahmed Mukhtar would not be Defence Minister, Zardari would not be President, and thousands of visas would not have been issued to American personnel without proper vetting.


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## zer0

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> And who is going to take care of the 'drama' that is then put on, such as the one related to the five Chechen terrorists gunned down by the FC in Quetta?
> 
> Or the 'Asma Jahangir's and our 'moral politicians' ranting and raving about the 'missing persons' and 'soldiers committing extra judicial killings'?



Same way the all the current drama is being taken care of, infact world will praise it. To them all bearded people are terrorist. and i dont blame them, thats the image that have become associated with the word terrorist.


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## deckingraj

zer0 said:


> Same way the all the current drama is being taken care of, infact world will praise it. To them all bearded people are terrorist. and i dont blame them, thats the image that have become associated with the word terrorist.


 
Collateral damage is very dangerous...As long as u can ensure that don't happen i don't think anyone would care...


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## Super Falcon




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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

deckingraj said:


> - Pakistan always says - nukes are safe - and now we are witnessing an attack on Naval Base....


 
Point being that even this attack on a naval base resulted in minimal damage - the terrorists did no 'fly off' with a P3 or chopper.

Hypothetically, if such an attack did take place at a nuclear facility, the result would be the same - a few security personnel might be martyred, minor damage here and there, potential hostage situation, and eventually all terrorists killed.

There is simply nothing to suggest that an attack on a nuclear installation would result in a meltdown or any strategic assets being compromised. The amount of manpower and explosive material required to do that is something that is simply impossible for any terrorist organization to put together.


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## roadrunner

RaptorRX707 said:


> This event remind me the bombing at Russia's Domodedovo airport in Jan 2011, where security is failed. This prove Russia will collapse? Answer is no.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *A bomb attack at Moscow's Domodedovo airport has killed at least 35 people and injured more than 100 - many of them critically*
> 
> 
> Similar to this event, the real question problem of this is known securities officers tip off to known terrorists to complete missions. Russia/KGB questioning who is behind this plan same as Pakistan Navy questioning.


 
it's nothing like domodedovo. That's a civilian airport this is a military one. 

military ones are guarded much more tightly than civilian ones.


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## Hammy007

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Point being that even this attack on a naval base resulted in minimal damage - the terrorists did no 'fly off' with a P3 or chopper.
> 
> Hypothetically, if such an attack did take place at a nuclear facility, the result would be the same - a few security personnel might be martyred, minor damage here and there, potential hostage situation, and eventually all terrorists killed.
> 
> There is simply nothing to suggest that an attack on a nuclear installation would result in a meltdown or any strategic assets being compromised. The amount of manpower and explosive material required to do that is something that is simply impossible for any terrorist organization to put together.


 
wht i dont understand is, why you dont ban these trolls??


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## American Pakistani

I just hear that total explosions # reach to 22..........What the hell, they say 2 explosions occurd jst now & heavy firing.


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## Spring Onion

Now big operation started


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## American Pakistani

I thought operation was over.


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## DV RULES

RaptorRX707 said:


> Heavy firing more than 6 hours, this prove all SSG, Army, ISI failure at the nighttime.

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## American Pakistani

Very heavy firing Samaa News showing live.


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## Spring Onion

American Pakistani said:


> I thought operation was over.


 
No they took hostages

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## American Pakistani

Salute to our great Army mans fighting, they are real steel heart mans fighting for nation.


Sad our top elite is sooo shameless.


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## Hammy007

any live footages and these damn channels insert their water mark


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## Hulk

Very different kind of attack. Are they after navy because of weak security. It seems the idea of attack was to hurt military badly. 2 P3 if lost are quit a bit.
Let's see how things unfolds, I thought terror is on a decline but they are bouncing back. The wrong.policy of PA and ISI has put both people and country at risk.
It is never a good idea to have non state actors have significant capability within country. There is no way you can selectively take this capability back.


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## Hammy007

still nothing on cnn, bbc


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## Super Falcon

our entire armed forces are shamless man they dont deserve to be soldiers i think pakistan should hire millitary of whore atleast we can stop these terrorists but not with these bhagoras like kiyani and qamar suleman who think they are clever


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## Dance

its been almost 6 and a half hours since this whole thing started!

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## Hammy007

indianrabbit said:


> Very different kind of attack. Are they after navy because of weak security. It seems the idea of attack was to hurt military badly. 2 P3 if lost are quit a bit.
> Let's see how things unfolds, I thought terror is on a decline but they are bouncing back. The wrong.policy of PA and ISI has put both people and country at risk.
> It is never a good idea to have non state actors have significant capability within country. There is no way you can selectively take this capability back.


 
this time terrorists are caught live, so expect something new


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## American Eagle

You are mistaken. The terrorist attack on the Karachi Naval Base has been on CNN, FOX, NBC, CBS and ABC TV national news all day long today. It is still Sunday, May 22 herein the Eastern zone of the USA.


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## Hulk

Guys nuke not safe is bit too much. The fact is propaganda will be created about nukes and rightly so, people are trying to corner Pakistan. Honestly Pakistan is new Afghanistan in terms of experiments.


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## Hammy007

no they are not, their webpage doesnt contain the story


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## bandit

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> How does my post answer my own question?
> 
> Are the backup power sources located at the same point as the main power source? How far apart? What security measures? How many perimeters have to be crossed before all power sources can be cut off? If one source is attacked, that tips off everyone that an attack is underway which means the other sources will be almost impossible to get to.
> 
> You have offered nothing in terms of how terrorists would address the logistical and security challenges in almost simultaneously destroying all power sources in a plant and causing a meltdown.
> 
> Assuming terrorists breach the outermost perimeter of a NPP, then what?
> ?


[/QUOTE]

Are you trying to to get me to formulate a whole plan for an attack on a nuclear facilty for you? Are you too simple minded not to see the similarities of todays attack on a "highly secure" installation and a NPP? You started out by saying that an attack cannot destroy a NPP unless its like a Japan earthquake....now you move on to saying they cannot destroy power lines...they cannot find generators....when they managed to find and destroy a P3 Orion in the middle of a night at a PN base....you are just desperately trying to hold on to your position which is not feasible.

I dont have to give you a plan to attack a power plant, I do not need to know it....the guys who will need to know it have sufficiently demaonstrated that they know how to....or the agencies responsible are sufficiently inept to let it happen. 

That buddy, is the real issue....not my knowledge of backups and their location.


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## Dance

indianrabbit said:


> Guys nuke not safe is bit too much. *The fact is propaganda will be created about nukes and rightly so,* people are trying to corner Pakistan. Honestly Pakistan is new Afghanistan in terms of experiments.


 
And I'm sure india and its third class media will the front runners of the propoganda


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## Super Falcon

Agar in kameeni army man thori bhi sharam rahy hai tu uthan aur sachai se sacha dushman kay sath ankhoon man anhkheen dal ka ladeen jesa awam na inka sath dia tha 65 ki war man inki jeet hue thi ajj wam insa tang hai isi liya yeh kutto ki mout mar rahy hai inho na awam ka sath pechla 20 sallo man khela hai awam ka pesa lutwaya hai musharaf ko hi dekho app inho na sheroon ki aham jagaon pa kanza kia hua hai apna lia ghar free medical army ki cars jin man hamara peso ka petrol dalta hai aj yeh sab hamara kis kam ka nahe yahan tak ka inka underwear aur banyan bhi apka aur mere pesa se kharedi hue hai infact agar hamarai army na ho tu ajj kisi pakistani ko bhar jana ki zaroorat hi na hoty apna mulk ma reh kar hum job kar sakty tha awam ka pas ilaj ke pesa nahe hai aur yeh mehnga se mehnga ilaj free man karwata hai army na police ko bhi daba ka rakha hai kisi army wala ko thora masla hota hai woh poori army ko apni jageer samjh ka police stations pa hamla kar deta hai law bhi koi cheez hai hamara muklk ajj jin maslo man hai woh inhi ki waja se hai


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## DV RULES

RaptorRX707 said:


> yaar come on what do you see in big pictures ?? Will you hit the wall if there is another next targets will be bigger than this navy??


 
Raptor

You misunderstand me, your permanent criticism on PA & ISI totally illogical, we are in state of war and people has to stand in support of PA. Never loose your patience & hope for good.


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## deckingraj

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Point being that even this attack on a naval base resulted in minimal damage - the terrorists did no 'fly off' with a P3 or chopper.
> 
> Hypothetically, if such an attack did take place at a nuclear facility, the result would be the same - a few security personnel might be martyred, minor damage here and there, potential hostage situation, and eventually all terrorists killed.
> 
> There is simply nothing to suggest that an attack on a nuclear installation would result in a meltdown or any strategic assets being compromised. The amount of manpower and explosive material required to do that is something that is simply impossible for any terrorist organization to put together.


 
I hear you and believe me have lot of sympathy for ordinary Pakistani.....However such attacks suggests that terrorist are becoming daring and powerful....whereas we would expect the exact opposite after PA launched the offensive against them....Yes there is nothing which shows they will take over nukes blah blah....but concerns are valid....because all we have is Pak's assurances which unfortunately have failed in the past....Such attacks makes you more and more nervous...


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## American Eagle

Yes they are, I just looked up on the Internet the BBC World News, first story on front page, Pak Navy Base attacked by native terrorists. Ditto the on line breaking news, as has been the case all day long today, Sunday, all major US TV news outlets.

Why in the world would you deny literal, factual news coverage???


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## RAZA SAHI

i think the strategy was to make terrorist mentally & physically tired, meanwhile also secure the assets present at the base. remember that these are very important & expensive assets to have. it's been seven hours since terrorist got in to the base, imagine the stress on their mind.


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## deckingraj

Hammy007 said:


> wht i dont understand is, why you dont ban these trolls??


 
I challenge you to show me where i was trolling......if u have any constructive thing to add then you are welcome otherwise better read/ignore...


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## Dance

Apparently rehman malik is saying theres a hostage situation going on?


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## deckingraj

RAZA SAHI said:


> i think the strategy was to make terrorist mentally & physically tired, meanwhile also secure the assets present at the base. remember that these are very important & expensive assets to have. it's been seven hours since terrorist got in to the base, imagine the stress on their mind.


 
You are absolutely right...Also keep in mind that they are there to die...When a person is prepared to die he/she is very dangerous....You want to save your assets and moreover don't want to have any more casualty.....Better wait then loose any more men and keep cornering the terrorists....

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## roadrunner

RaptorRX707 said:


> I mentioned before, it is either Palestine or second Afghanistan. Soon, we will throw stones or rocks just like them.


 
I dont think Pakistan will become the new Afghanistan or Palestine. 

But a minority of people weren't supported by the foreign powers as much as they are now. 

Afghanistan and Pakistan are playgrounds. Really i think all foreigners should just leave Pakistan and Afghanistan, let them grow and stop holding them back. 

It's foreign meddling and Pakistan is too important for China's and Russia's future success.

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## iPhone

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Point being that even this attack on a naval base resulted in minimal damage - the terrorists did no 'fly off' with a P3 or chopper.
> 
> Hypothetically, if such an attack did take place at a nuclear facility, the result would be the same - a few security personnel might be martyred, minor damage here and there, potential hostage situation, and eventually all terrorists killed.
> 
> There is simply nothing to suggest that an attack on a nuclear installation would result in a meltdown or any strategic assets being compromised. The amount of manpower and explosive material required to do that is something that is simply impossible for any terrorist organization to put together.



Not to mention that in order to pull off an operation of that sort the terrorists would need the technical know-how like being familiar with what they want to steal, uranium or the bomb itself. Who here thinks that terrorist would have that kind of training.

When US talks about securing Pak nuclear facilities that seems plausable cuz of their training and the nuclear know-how. But a terrorist organization, that too ttp based is just out of reality.

They could if they had the special military training if they were to get it from, say India, I don't want to accuse them just being hypothetical, then plausible, but without them even knowing what nuclear material looks like, suggesting they infiltrate and steal nukes is just plain ignorant.


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## RAZA SAHI

We should NOT be very surprised the navy outcome today, we all very angry at the failure of OBL raid, yaad hai na!



6 hours ongoing battle!

@RaptorRX707 


BEING A PAKISTANI YOUR FRUSTRATION IS UNDERSTANDABLE.
BUT WILL U PREFER THIS OPERATION DONE IN HASTE RESULTING IN MORE CASUALITIES.
THE THING TO REMEMBER HERE IS THAT THESE MORONS ARE NOT ACTIVE, THEY ARE BOGGED DOWN, HOLED UP IN A ROOM OR COMPOUND.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Talibastards have taken hostages............


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## Dance

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Talibastards have taken hostages............


 
Do you know how many?


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## Meengla

Well, the failure of Pakistan remains not only in tracking these militants. There are too many of them. Even going by Musharraf's '1%' estimate for the entire population--and that was made in the better days.
The failure is because of Pakistan's un-winnable proxy wars against India--and India is backed by America. Pakistan may not really 'like' the Haqqani group etc but will keep them because they may not be as bad as a complete Indian-favoring govt. in Afghanistan. Pakistan may not like Jamaat e Dawa etc but they can tie down Indian troops in Kashmir....
The result of these policies are that the religious zeal to make these 'non-state-actors' work for Pakistan can also make them work against Pakistan. When you can have a suicide bomber--perhaps the most lethal and effective weapon inside any state--for less than $7,000 for hire then others, with deeper pockets, are going to come in and use them as well.
There is no 'victory' for Pakistan. All these BS about Gwadar, China, JF 17, a Taliban led govt. in Afghanistan, bleeding India etc, even in their best projected scenarios, are going to give too little back, if they ever reach their potentials.
Pakistan needs a radical re-alignment and that starts from a radical look at Pakistan's India policy with cold, rationale approach.

[ Mods: My post is relevant to this topic.]

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dance said:


> Do you know how many?


 
I think 6........ as per media reports.

It will be over in half an hour or so.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

They r tryin to take them alive.


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## Hammy007

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> They r tryin to take them alive.



mark my words none will be taken alive, and responsibility will be on taliban


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## Super Falcon

even if they take them alive no use becoz army will not bring truth to nation ISI will underground or kill them


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## deckingraj

Meengla said:


> Well, the failure of Pakistan remains not only in tracking these militants. There are too many of them. Even going by Musharraf's '1%' estimate for the entire population--and that was made in the better days.
> The failure is because of Pakistan's un-winnable proxy wars against India--and India is backed by America. Pakistan may not really 'like' the Haqqani group etc but will keep them because they may not be as bad as a complete Indian-favoring govt. in Afghanistan. Pakistan may not like Jamaat e Dawa etc but they can tie down Indian troops in Kashmir....
> The result of these policies are that the religious zeal to make these 'non-state-actors' work for Pakistan can also make them work against Pakistan. When you can have a suicide bomber--perhaps the most lethal and effective weapon inside any state--for less than $7,000 for hire then others, with deeper pockets, are going to come in and use them as well.
> There is no 'victory' for Pakistan. All these BS about Gwadar, China, JF 17, a Taliban led govt. in Afghanistan, bleeding India etc, even in their best projected scenarios, are going to give too little back, if they ever reach their potentials.
> *Pakistan needs a radical re-alignment and that starts from a radical look at Pakistan's India policy with cold, rationale approach*.
> 
> [ Mods: My post is relevant to this topic.]



I cannot agree more on the bold part...An ordinary Pakistani need to ask what is better for their future - A 6 decade old enemy or perhaps an ordinary neighbor with just about good relations....Anyhow this can be discussed later...for now as we should pray is - no more casualty and logical conclusion of the operation


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## zer0

Meengla said:


> Well, the failure of Pakistan remains not only in tracking these militants. There are too many of them. Even going by Musharraf's '1%' estimate for the entire population--and that was made in the better days.
> The failure is because of Pakistan's un-winnable proxy wars against India--and India is backed by America. Pakistan may not really 'like' the Haqqani group etc but will keep them because they may not be as bad as a complete Indian-favoring govt. in Afghanistan. Pakistan may not like Jamaat e Dawa etc but they can tie down Indian troops in Kashmir....
> The result of these policies are that the religious zeal to make these 'non-state-actors' work for Pakistan can also make them work against Pakistan. When you can have a suicide bomber--perhaps the most lethal and effective weapon inside any state--for less than $7,000 for hire then others, with deeper pockets, are going to come in and use them as well.
> There is no 'victory' for Pakistan. All these BS about Gwadar, China, JF 17, a Taliban led govt. in Afghanistan, bleeding India etc, even in their best projected scenarios, are going to give too little back, if they ever reach their potentials.
> Pakistan needs a radical re-alignment and that starts from a radical look at Pakistan's India policy with cold, rationale approach.
> 
> [ Mods: My post is relevant to this topic.]


 
I agree, Pakistan is wasting too much money on "trying" to advance its military, if they invest that money in public and education maybe they wont be in this . The only cure for like this is education.

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## Gin ka Pakistan

I hope one of them will be catch alive.

All Bases should be taken away from civilians area or take civilians away from Bases. All terrorist use near by neighborhoods to group and stage a attach. Even Osama was living near the army base. 

No important Assets base should have civil houses to live near by and hopefully the Army Generals in business of property will not sell the land to civil use in future near the army bases as its a security risk to the nation defense. .


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## muse

Truth is that the armed forces are riddled with Islamists and these individuals see the sabotage of Pakistani assets as a religious duty - of course the Indian, Israeli and US will be the focus of official and officially sponsored rumor mills -- but if you care about truth, the reality is that the armed forces itself is now untenable -- if these people cannot protect themselves, can they protect nuclear triggers? can they protect nuclear material? DO we really want to risk finding out answers to these??


The Islamists terrorists know full well that this is the way to put Pakistan under greater pressure and the Pakistan armed forces still are more concerned with politics instead of killing this Islamist monster.

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## RAZA SAHI

They r tryin to take them alive.

@Pakistani Nationalist 


THAT SHOULD BE THE STRATEGY, INFORMATION TAKEN FROM THEM WOULD BE GREAT, REALLY GREAT. IT WON'T BE OF ANY USE TO AUTHORITIES OR PAKISTAN IF THEY ARE KILLED. IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERD AN OPPERTUNITY. MAXIMUM EFFORT SHOULD BE MADE TO GET THEM ALIVE, INFORMATION TAKEN FROM THESE GUYS WOULD REVEAL A LOT ABOUT THE LOGISTICS SUPPORT, THEIR HANDLERS & TRAINERS, MOST OF ALL THE MINDS WHO PLANNED SUCH AN AUDICIOUS ATTACK ON SUCH A HIGH VALUE TARGET.


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## Dance

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> .
> All Bases should be taken away from civilians area or take civilians away from Bases. All terrorist use near by neighborhoods to group and stage a attach. Even Osama was living near the army base.
> 
> .


 
Exactly, these bases should be moved away from being in the middle of a city to somewhere where it is not that populated. The fact that these bases/GHQ are in populated ares is a big security risk as we can see!


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## roadrunner

Meengla said:


> Well, the failure of Pakistan remains not only in tracking these militants. There are too many of them. Even going by Musharraf's '1%' estimate for the entire population--and that was made in the better days.
> The failure is because of Pakistan's un-winnable proxy wars against India--and India is backed by America. Pakistan may not really 'like' the Haqqani group etc but will keep them because they may not be as bad as a complete Indian-favoring govt. in Afghanistan. Pakistan may not like Jamaat e Dawa etc but they can tie down Indian troops in Kashmir....
> The result of these policies are that the religious zeal to make these 'non-state-actors' work for Pakistan can also make them work against Pakistan. When you can have a suicide bomber--perhaps the most lethal and effective weapon inside any state--for less than $7,000 for hire then others, with deeper pockets, are going to come in and use them as well.
> There is no 'victory' for Pakistan. All these BS about Gwadar, China, JF 17, a Taliban led govt. in Afghanistan, bleeding India etc, even in their best projected scenarios, are going to give too little back, if they ever reach their potentials.
> Pakistan needs a radical re-alignment and that starts from a radical look at Pakistan's India policy with cold, rationale approach.
> 
> [ Mods: My post is relevant to this topic.]


 
lol, no. India is totally irrelevant in all this. 

It is Pakistan's pro-China policies that are problematic for it, not its anti-India ones. Noone cares about Pakistan being anti-India.


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## VCheng

Nevermind OBL's choice of accommodation, if warplanes are not safe on the flight apron, then what is??!! :O

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## razgriz19

two terrorists were captured alive by SSG while they were trying to run away...
they were taken to an unknown location


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## roadrunner

razgriz19 said:


> two terrorists were captured alive by SSG while they were trying to run away...
> they were taken to an unknown location


 
no doubts subject to the fog of war


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## SSGPA1

razgriz19 said:


> two terrorists were captured alive by SSG while they were trying to run away...
> they were taken to an unknown location


 
source of your infor pls?


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## notorious_eagle

Every security agency in Pakistan needs to come out with a hammer and strike these terrorist bast****. I honestly dont know what our security agencies are doing, how long are the people of Pakistan going to suffer. I am a huge supporter of the military and applaud them for keeping India at bay, but this problem of internal terrorism has gone on for way to long. Hit them with an iron hammer, take no prisoners. Make an example out of their leaders by publicly hanging them, instill fear in their hearts.


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## muse

RAZA SAHI said:


> They r tryin to take them alive.
> 
> @Pakistani Nationalist
> 
> 
> THAT SHOULD BE THE STRATEGY, INFORMATION TAKEN FROM THEM WOULD BE GREAT, REALLY GREAT. IT WON'T BE OF ANY USE TO AUTHORITIES OR PAKISTAN IF THEY ARE KILLED. IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERD AN OPPERTUNITY. MAXIMUM EFFORT SHOULD BE MADE TO GET THEM ALIVE, INFORMATION TAKEN FROM THESE GUYS WOULD REVEAL A LOT ABOUT THE LOGISTICS SUPPORT, THEIR HANDLERS & TRAINERS, MOST OF ALL THE MINDS WHO PLANNED SUCH AN AUDICIOUS ATTACK ON SUCH A HIGH VALUE TARGET.


 

I love it, the focus seems not on the failure of the armed forces to do their job but on who has penetrated the incompetent zeros that are the Pakistan armed forces -- failure after failure after failure and the Pakistan armed forces seem to want to live off the narrative that a bunch of terrorists are more resourceful and better trained, better motivated and better led than the Pakistan armed forces -- these Pakistan Armed Forces have not really left Pakistanis with any self respect -- just when you think they can't failure you any further, the Pakistan armed forces come through -- I', really ashamed of these armed forces.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

I have a feeling that these people have the backing of India... and probably not TTP... but lets wait and see... 

Simple reason... They have struck not only people, but military hardware also... 

Karachi is the hotbed of pro Indian scum... I m not surprised... 

Anyone knows if the initial reports about Americans being killed in the attack is true??

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## President Camacho

Hammy007 said:


> mark my words none will be taken alive, and responsibility will be on taliban


 
I heard two already captured alive, in injured state.


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## razgriz19

SSGPA1 said:


> source of your infor pls?


 
heard it on news..
if i find any link i'll definetly post it


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## Manticore

why doesnt the army make a department which studies different pak installations and tries to penetrate it-- in this way providing info on how to upgrade the security 

i think brain drain has radically happened in the army as compared to other pak fields-- intelligent people are leaving pakistan -- mostly those who cant find any other jobs end up in the army nowadays---- combine this inherent incompetancy with corrupt politicians and youve got my pakistan in these grave circumstances

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## Gin ka Pakistan

muse said:


> Truth is that the armed forces are riddled with Islamists and these individuals see the sabotage of Pakistani assets as a religious duty - of course the Indian, Israeli and US will be the focus of official and officially sponsored rumor mills -- but if you care about truth, the reality is that the armed forces itself is now untenable -- if these people cannot protect themselves, can they protect nuclear triggers? can they protect nuclear material? DO we really want to risk finding out answers to these??
> 
> 
> The Islamists terrorists know full well that this is the way to put Pakistan under greater pressure and the Pakistan armed forces still are more concerned with politics instead of killing this Islamist monster.


 
I think they are sandwiched between two forces 

The Islamic militant are like fire they can keep your enemy away and burn your hands too.

The last thing which stops India and USA for starting cold start is that after weakening Pakistan Army how the civil government will control these militants if they take the sting away from the Army, as after the cold start and taking out many targets they will leave Pakistan with weak Army and strong civil government like the one after 71 war. 
But on the other hand controlling Islamic militant is becoming impossible for Army too as they want hard line Islam in Pakistan and see army as hurdle in their way. Many of them are in Pak Army many at low ranks. General Musharraf did remove many from the service and many face court Marshall in his time.


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## muse

All too easy to get you guys into the "India" mindset -- you guys are perfect cows for the islamist enemy

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## Manticore

these terorist a****** should be sentenced publically ---- isi should capture anyone who even sheds a tear for them upon pubic preseqution and sentence him as a traitor


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## Hulk

Super Falcon said:


> even if they take them alive no use becoz army will not bring truth to nation ISI will underground or kill them


 may I know why?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

1 section of the building cleared by SSN-SSG.


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## Manticore

only the enlightened , moderate and litterate people [granted they are honest] have done something for pakistan take quadeazam as an example---- 

these islamists even opposed learning for muslims in the the school made by sir syed ahmed khan in the 1880s -- that alone dragged muslims 2 generations behind

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## Super Falcon

infact our army is corrupt too in international market they are sold their dignity to forigners what left in pakista soon you see pakistan out of this world's map if our military do not change their policies aesa marna se tu acha hi hai ka pakistan khattam ho jaye bikna se tu acha hai hamra fauj hi hamari dushman hai yaroo tum logo na abhi tak nahe samjha ajj tak yeh drone attacks ko sirf khatta hai stop drones inka kam khana nahe hai inka kam hai action karna kiyani na poori gauj ko beech dia hai jeesa mushy beech gaya tha abb iski lottery lagi hai bhayoon army ka kia matlub hota hai bateen karna ya kuch karka dikhana yeh kiyani sirf bateen hi banata aya hai 4 saal se kuch kia nahe hai kisi na bhana inka pass croro hain yeh fail ho gya a radar fail ho gaya yeh ho gaya pakistan ki military academy ka agee 40 min operation ka yeh kuch na kar saka yeh duniya man phala action tha kisi bhi military academy ka samna agar chudiya bhi marti hai uska girna se phele army wahan hoty hai lakin 40 min kakul ki poori army so rahy thi ab tu duniya ko pata chal chuka hai army has been sold already

---------- Post added at 07:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 AM ----------

becoz this was an induction ceremony of P 3 and now after death


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## Hammy007

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I have a feeling that these people have the backing of India... and probably not TTP... but lets wait and see...
> 
> Simple reason... They have struck not only people, but military hardware also...
> 
> Karachi is the hotbed of pro Indian scum... I m not surprised...
> 
> Anyone knows if the initial reports about Americans being killed in the attack is true??


 
yeah and karachi is also hotbed of most literate people


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## DESERT FIGHTER

PN comodore says tht there are no hostages............ On tv i just saw more SSG guys entering the building.

The Marines,SSG and SSN combined effort.


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## Super Falcon

Antony bhai ISI aur Armu khud mulk ko lee bech chuka hain app ulta chor ko rakh wali ka liya kha rahy ho inho na ajj tak kia kiya hai koi aik cheez app bataye jo inho na awam ki amonage ke mutabiq ki ho kuch nahe jab apki itni badi academy ka samna itna kuch ho gaya aur app soye rahy yahan sab baat khattam ho jaty hai aur jo na samjha woh pagal hai duniya ke kamzoor tareen mulk bhutan ki bhi academy ka samna agar phataka chalta hai tu usay agg lagna se phala unki porri army ajatai hai 40 min tak apki army na kia kya itni firings hue jab woh chala gaye tu bad man kachra saaf karna agaye


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## RAZA SAHI

I love it, the focus seems not on the failure of the armed forces to do their job but on who has penetrated the incompetent zeros that are the Pakistan armed forces -- failure after failure after failure and the Pakistan armed forces seem to want to live off the narrative that a bunch of terrorists are more resourceful and better trained, better motivated and better led than the Pakistan armed forces -- these Pakistan Armed Forces have not really left Pakistanis with any self respect -- just when you think they can't failure you any further, the Pakistan armed forces come through -- I', really ashamed of these armed forces.

@MUSE


I am as critical of the army's as you are, but i ll wait for the operation to end let the dust settle & then give my view. Don't u think it would be much better if SSG could capture few of them alive. atleast there ll be some media scrutiny & hopefully truth would come out or atleast half of it.


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## Dharmachakra

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I have a feeling that these people have the backing of India... and probably not TTP... but lets wait and see...
> 
> Simple reason... They have struck not only people, but military hardware also...
> 
> Karachi is the hotbed of pro Indian scum... I m not surprised...
> 
> Anyone knows if the initial reports about Americans being killed in the attack is true??


 
Exactly....
Its a RAW and Mossad sketch.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Super Falcon said:


> infact our army is corrupt too in international market they are sold their dignity to forigners what left in pakista soon you see pakistan out of this world's map if our military do not change their policies aesa marna se tu acha hi hai ka pakistan khattam ho jaye bikna se tu acha hai hamra fauj hi hamari dushman hai yaroo tum logo na abhi tak nahe samjha ajj tak yeh drone attacks ko sirf khatta hai stop drones inka kam khana nahe hai inka kam hai action karna kiyani na poori gauj ko beech dia hai jeesa mushy beech gaya tha abb iski lottery lagi hai bhayoon army ka kia matlub hota hai bateen karna ya kuch karka dikhana yeh kiyani sirf bateen hi banata aya hai 4 saal se kuch kia nahe hai kisi na bhana inka pass croro hain yeh fail ho gya a radar fail ho gaya yeh ho gaya pakistan ki military academy ka agee 40 min operation ka yeh kuch na kar saka yeh duniya man phala action tha kisi bhi military academy ka samna agar chudiya bhi marti hai uska girna se phele army wahan hoty hai lakin 40 min kakul ki poori army so rahy thi ab tu duniya ko pata chal chuka hai army has been sold already
> 
> ---------- Post added at 07:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 AM ----------
> 
> becoz this was an induction ceremony of P 3 and now after death


 
This corruption is like a cancer as deadly as this extremism.


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## Leader

two taken down...


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## DESERT FIGHTER

3 blasts heard......smoke seen.


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## Dance

I guess security forces have entered the building!


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## Gin ka Pakistan

I hope the will catch the ring leader live.


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## Leader

zarar special forces entering.......


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## Cheetah786

I hope they can get the hostages Before these scums of the earth can hurt our guests at the base


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dance said:


> I guess security forces have entered the building!


 
Cleared half of it.


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## Pak_Sher

Even if it takes a little longer we should try to take them alive, so we can find their contacts and infrastructure.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Pak_Sher said:


> Even if it takes a little longer we should try to take them alive, so we can find their contacts and infrastructure.


 
Those bastards are there not to get caught........... they r prepared to die rather than being arrested.


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## Dance

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Cleared half of it.


 
Good. Then hopefully this should end very soon.


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## Leader

Pak_Sher said:


> Even if it takes a little longer we should try to take them alive, so we can find their contacts and infrastructure.


 
what if they have known faces? you and I both dont wanna see them neither alive nor dead !


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## Srinivas

RaptorRX707 said:


> We should *NOT* be very surprised the navy outcome today, we all very angry at the failure of OBL raid, yaad hai na!
> 
> 
> 
> 6 hours ongoing battle!



These operations do take long time to make the damage and risk as minimum as possible on the pakistani armed forces. May be there is hostage situation inside.


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## Super Falcon

you see what type of 5 star hotel they are living in

nation dont have water to wash and bath but these bastered have fresh water for washing their clothes in middle of sea

nation dont have Electricity they have 24/7 electricity

nation live in slums they live in centrally airconditioned ship man what type of law makes them better than common citien of pak

they take salaries, they takes 5 star living standards on duty,they take free medicals, they take every thing for free but still they cannot fulfill their duties if you are true lover for nation please see video and judge how better life they are living man im sad to see nation poor sir


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## jha

How many hostages..? Firings still on ..?


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## acetophenol

mar god bless the souls of the dead.


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## Cheetah786

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Those bastards are there not to get caught........... they r prepared to die rather than being arrested.


 
if they were prepared to die they wouldn't have taken hostages


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## Dance

According to the Washington Post TTP losers have now accepted responsibility for all this


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## Super Falcon

every single pakistani deserve this and who is getting who use not to get it for nation's sake


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## deckingraj

Super Falcon said:


> you see what type of 5 star hotel they are living in
> 
> nation dont have water to wash and bath but these bastered have fresh water for washing their clothes in middle of sea
> 
> nation dont have Electricity they have 24/7 electricity
> 
> nation live in slums they live in centrally airconditioned ship man what type of law makes them better than common citien of pak
> 
> they take salaries, they takes 5 star living standards on duty,they take free medicals, they take every thing for free but still they cannot fulfill their duties if you are true lover for nation please see video and judge how better life they are living man im sad to see nation poor sir


 

Dude, i can understand your frustration but don't insult the uniform...All this mess is not the fault of ground troops...if you want to abuse, abuse the inept leaders(both Army and civilian)...why malign the real heroes(yes dedicating your lives for country is no joke - when people are busy abusing and giving lectures there are some real heroes who are risking their lives to get those scum bags)??

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## justanobserver

Too many conflicting reports.....

Did they take hostages?
Were the militants of foreign origin?
Were they captured alive (some) or killed ?


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## Evil Flare

hey super falcon ... enough of your nonsense .. stick to topic or goto hell .


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## Super Falcon

True soldier is that who dont want to take luxuries which its nation also dont have

what is the meaning of soldier who fight for the rights of the nation but our soldiers are living a luxorious lifes sir


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## Evil Flare

All conflicting reports .. 

any live channel link ?


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## Dance

deckingraj said:


> Dude, i can understand your frustration but don't insult the uniform...All this mess is not the fault of ground troops...if you want to abuse, abuse the inept leaders(both Army and civilian)...why malign the real heroes(yes dedicating your lives for country is no joke - when people are busy abusing and giving lectures there are some real heroes who are risking their lives to get those scum bags)??



Thank you. One of the most sensible posts so far


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## kugga

Super Falcon said:


> you see what type of 5 star hotel they are living in
> 
> nation dont have water to wash and bath but these bastered have fresh water for washing their clothes in middle of sea
> 
> nation dont have Electricity they have 24/7 electricity
> 
> nation live in slums they live in centrally airconditioned ship man what type of law makes them better than common citien of pak
> 
> they take salaries, they takes 5 star living standards on duty,they take free medicals, they take every thing for free but still they cannot fulfill their duties if you are true lover for nation please see video and judge how better life they are living man im sad to see nation poor sir


 
I used to think the same buddy but beleive it's not the case.. It's just their organization has grown strong that's why that provides better facilities like any other good organization.. even wapda and railway employees once were at a very high standard... but still I think armed forces does not live 5 star living standards they have tough duties and they pay for every facility you mentioned above (if they have any such facility)


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## 53fd

Serves as a good lesson for the Pakistan security establishment to deal with these issues, & work on measures to enhance internal security. This should be a better wakeup call than the ones in which regular citizens are killed. No need to put this on India or blame them when they don't have anything to do with this. There are some terrorist sympathizers infiltrated inside Pakistan's security establishments & they need to be rooted out.

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## Gin ka Pakistan

Cheetah786 said:


> if they were prepared to die they wouldn't have taken hostages


 
bargaining chips .


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## TOPGUN

Super Falcon stop this BS at once yaar the nation is facing this crazy and hard moment while you are going off topic with your own personal thoughts stick to the topic show some respect to the men that have lost their lives and pray that we catch these bastards or kill them and send them right to hell this is a time for the country to come together even us the ones that live abroad so help us GOD ....

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Super Falcon said:


> True soldier is that who dont want to take luxuries which its nation also dont have
> 
> what is the meaning of soldier who fight for the rights of the nation but our soldiers are living a luxorious lifes sir


 
Yeah I hope u know u get 18 $ Allowance after losing a limb and wait for more than a year to get an artificial limb....... in the war being fought........ I also hope u know tht the 5-6 martyrs belong to Navy and rangers.......... While the 4000 soldiers who lost their lives are also frm Pakistan Army............

I feel pitty for u.

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## Evil Flare

any live feed links ?


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## Super Falcon

welll in futre you see more coming becoz our army and ISI keeping its eyes close and sleep well

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## Cheetah786

Aamir Zia said:


> All conflicting reports ..
> 
> any live channel link ?


 
Live links are all speculating no one is allowed inside the base i am not sure but some are saying they are holding Chinese Military personals as hostage

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## Super Falcon

im not saying anything about common soldier im saying about top brass of armed forces are sold sir


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## Leader

Dance said:


> According to the Washington Post TTP losers have now accepted responsibility for all this


 


as soon as sehar came, the talibs woke up, turned on their radio, heard it happening and then made a phone call to Washington post...

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## Dance

Leader said:


> as soon as sehar came, the talibs woke up, turned on their radio, heard it happening and then made a phone call to Washington post...


 
Don't blame me, I'm just sharing what I read from various news papers


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## kugga

Leader said:


> as soon as sehar came, the talibs woke up, turned on their radio, heard it happening and then made a phone call to Washington post...


 
even a child can understand this cannot be done by TTP... they are not of that calliber... they can just kill civilians doing such an operation is not possible for them... I mean they are not capable of this..


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## Cheetah786

Dance said:


> Don't blame me, I'm just sharing what I read from various news papers


 
He is making fun of News paper not blaming you

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## muse

They are not sleeping, they are the creators and trainer fo these islamist enemies -- reality is that the Pakistan armed forces is riddled with Islamists -- and if the Pakistani armed forces can't protect themselves and assets worth millions of dollars, What makes you think they will protect you or your property?

But this is exactly what the plan is, to place Pakistan under greater pressure - the rest of the world will rightly argue, "hey, these zseros can't protect a
aircraft on a tarmac, how safe are nuclear triggers and nuclear material? DO we really want to test their capability or should we go ahaead and just prevent the possibility of threat once and for all?" 

This in turn will force Pakistan to make a choice, a choice in which it will concede to the terrorists and then the rest of the world will have arrived at yet another, maybe final, make or break moment with Pakistan --

This is a sad truth about Pakistan, there are some here who think you can't handle the truth but then again they actually are on the side of the ideology of the terrorists -- just keep asking yourself, how is it that the more you don't ask question, how you don't hold the Pakistan armed forces accountable, the more you get failure after failure, after failure.

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## deckingraj

kugga said:


> even a child can understand this cannot be done by TTP... they are not of that calliber... they can just kill civilians doing such an operation is not possible for them... I mean they are not capable of this..


That would be a big mistake - "Never underestimate the enemy".....Before 9/11 OBL was termed as cave man....Imagine if they(TTP) have survived the onslaught from the mighty PA they are anything but feeble force...


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## Gin ka Pakistan

kugga said:


> even a child can understand this cannot be done by TTP... they are not of that calliber... they can just kill civilians doing such an operation is not possible for them... I mean they are not capable of this..


 
Its a inside job , GHQ was a inside job. Is there a splinter group in the Army?

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## iPhone

The buildings will be cleared and terrorists killed and captured, no doubt. They just came to cause damage and raise questions about Pakistan's nuclear security.
And I would say they succeed very well. 
Now ttp is claiming responsibility with such impunity and audacity. And I would say this, to Pakistan's military, from this point the name of ttp organization and their members must be wiped off from the face of this planet. Make an example out of these bastards for the other likes of them.


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## monitor

11 soldier died in the attack our Chanel report .


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## kugga

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Its a inside job , GHQ was a inside job. Is there a splinter group in the Army?


 
GHQ job was easy but this is not buddy... nyways I don't want to idulge in the same debate again.... you carry on your views but it doesn't seem to me like a TTP attack...


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## deckingraj

kugga said:


> GHQ job was easy but this is not buddy... nyways I don't want to idulge in the same debate again.... you carry on your views but it doesn't seem to me like a TTP attack...


 
Would you mind sharing a bit more on this angle???


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## justanobserver

From the BBC 

Pakistan: Militants attack Karachi naval air base



> The well-armed attackers set off explosives and have been fighting gunbattles with navy personnel at the Mehran naval aviation base.
> 
> The gunmen are now holding *hostages*, including *Chinese* *military** personnel*.


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## Super Falcon

welll if army thinks that they are with nation than bring true to nation bring these holes live and let nation now who are our enemy if the cannot do this i will never ever consider our army is our friend why they close their mouths on abbotabad operation if they are right


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## kugga

deckingraj said:


> Would you mind sharing a bit more on this angle???


 
No I don't think this is the right time....

Although I don't think it was done by TTP, I still wanna see TTP crushed for ever as they have killed a lot of our men, women and children.... and removing them will definitley stop all this claim bullshit


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## Gin ka Pakistan

justanobserver said:


> From the BBC
> 
> Pakistan: Militants attack Karachi naval air base


 
If Chinese were target then some super power is not happy with PM visit to China


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## Leader

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> If Chinese were target then some super power is not happy with PM visit to China


 
yes possible, Chinese next to american aircraft looking at it... maybe I dont know what technology P3 had.


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## muse

iPhone said:


> The buildings will be cleared and terrorists killed and captured, no doubt. They just came to cause damage and raise questions about Pakistan's nuclear security.
> And I would say they succeed very well.
> Now ttp is claiming responsibility with such impunity and audacity. And I would say this, to Pakistan's military, from this point the name of ttp organization and their members must be wiped off from the face of this planet. Make an example out of these bastards for the other likes of them.


 


Great points I agree completely -- but let me ask a couple of questions:

If the Fauj doesnot eradicate the TTP what would it mean?? If Imran Khan, who interestingly provided a diversion to the penetration, shold be successful in calling for a make nice with the Tatib - what would it mean ?? What will it take to awaken you that we are in great danger and that this danger is the recklessness of Islamists sympathizers in the armed forces and intelligence services?


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## Dance

Its started! Reuters has just published an article about how "safe" Pakistani nukes are

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## Leader

muse said:


> Great points I agree completely -- but let me ask a couple of questions:
> 
> If the Fauj doesnot eradicate the TTP what would it mean?? If Imran Khan, who interestingly provided a diversion to the penetration, shold be successful in calling for a make nice with the Tatib - what would it mean ?? What will it take to awaken you that we are in great danger and that this danger is the recklessness of Islamists sympathizers in the armed forces and intelligence services?


 
its fascists who brought this upon us


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## President Camacho

Aamir Zia said:


> any live feed links ?


 
Watch Dawn News Live TV from Pakistan.


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## American Pakistani

Taliban claims reponsibility. Aljazeera


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## deckingraj

Dance said:


> Its started! Reuters has just published an article about how "safe" Pakistani nukes are


 
As discussed with Agno, all these are genuine concerns....People are going to raise these questions especially when you find OBL right under the nose of Army and then such Audacious attacks on Naval Base.....Even if one gets convinced that GOP is not directly involved, people are not ready to listen that terrorist don't have sympathizers well inside the Army


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## Super Falcon

whatt happened about operation


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## muse

Just ask yourself how it is that Pakistan's security goes from bad to worse - I mean if the Pakistan armed forces are really competent, why is it that we have failure after failure - and notice no resignations, no public inquiries, just plain no information, all in the name of security, of course, a security that our experience tell us does not exist for us.

If you continue to think that it's high ranking officers who are at fault, you will be wrong, operations like these cannot be conducted if not the information of low level types -- and there is in reality a civil war within the Pakistan armed forces, a good number are persuaded that this Pakistan must die and a new, more Islamic one created.

Don't believe a word I am telling you, trust your own experience, trust you own ability to reason -- How can these things be going on without the help of those in the inside? Do they really provide training to target a base like Faisal/Mehran, in the Waziristan/FATA ?? Because, look, if you can say that yes, they do provide such training, then you must explain how it is that the Pakistan armed forces have refused to clear up Waziristan/FATA ?? 

Please trust me that you will not be told the truth of the situation - officially created and officially circulated rumors and conspiracies will hint at the Indian, the American, the Israeli, the Martian ---- an inside job, friends, to force Pakistan into a choice that will in turn force it to be seen as genuinely dangerous and then squeezed from all sides, with our Islamist enemy picking up the pieces.

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## Dance

According to ReutersPakistan, Pakistan Taliban spokesman name is Ehsanullah Ehsan has said: "It was the revenge of martyrdom of Osama bin Laden. It was the proof that we are still united and powerful"

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## jha

Pakistan security forces have gained controll on terrorists now. One last position under fight. PNS Mehran #KarachiAttacks


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## anon45

I'm seeing news from Dawn and BBC that there are Chinese military personnel as hostages!?

Terrorists attack Navy airbase in Karachi, destroy three aircraft | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

BBC News - Pakistan: Militants attack Karachi naval air base


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## Manticore

these 14 odd terrorists have better training, weapons, planning than our elite commandos

does our leadership have the capacity of foresight and learning from these mistakes?

May Allah keep our troops in His protection


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## Manticore

our helis start hovering in the morning--- dont they have any night time capability?


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## Dance

Its been about almost over 9 hours now


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## muse

10 - 12 militants sneaked in from 3 different directions -- would you say that's a security failure?? Of course we can't blame the armed forces, we may only offer praise and worship at their alter - but do you think from 3 different directions suggests a inside job??? Hainji?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

ANTIBODY said:


> our helis start hovering in the morning--- dont they have any night time capability?


 
They do........ i saw one of them land in the compound of PNS Mehran.


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## Manticore

^^ means that secuirity was lax at not 1 , but 3 places


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## muse

ANTIBODY said:


> these 14 odd terrorists have better training, weapons, planning than our elite commandos
> 
> does our leadership have the capacity of foresight and learning from these mistakes?
> 
> May Allah keep our troops in His protection



What an interesting idea -- what do you suppose this means? Where are the billions these armed forces extract from the Pakistani state? Of course we don't mean to question the armed forces, humari auqaat.... we just wondered what it takes if not dollars to make a capable effective fighting force


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## Dance

11 injured evacuated to PNS Shifa

Ranger jawans, despite being wounded aren't leaving and are continuing the fight.

last military reinforcements entered 6:05am pak time, so no more troops are needed. Estimated time to wrap up op is within 1-2hours.

unconfirmed: 3 navy sub-lieutenants, and 1 full Lt. martyred 

Please pray for the soldiers!


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## Manticore

the longer it takes, and the more media coverage it gets--- the more difficult it would be to rekindle the faith in the army


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## Lankan Ranger

*The base has been considered not penetrable. 

Without an inside Informer.....*


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## DESERT FIGHTER

RaptorRX707 said:


> Right, new record now is 9 hours more ongoing fighting.....compared to Obama raid only 40 minutes. What are the strength of SSG, Army, ISI and helicopter rovering around, how they are useful?


 
Osama raid didnt have a house with a billion rooms spread over 14-16 Km areas,hostages and innocent people and hell alot of expensive jets and machines.

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## farhan_9909

kiyani and pasha need to resign today

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## justanobserver

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Osama raid didnt have a house with a billion rooms spread over 14-16 Km areas, hostages and innocent people and hell alot of expensive jets and machines.


 
It's a military base FFS !


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## muse

ANTIBODY said:


> the longer it takes, and the more media coverage it gets--- the more difficult it would be to rekindle the faith in the army


 
Think Mumbai -- the whole point was to take as much time and media attention as possible -- think about how the Indian responded with regard to the security reorganization -- now if you don't see a security reorganization in Pakistan, what might you conclude the relationship between security organization and the Islamist terrorists


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## razgriz19

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Osama raid didnt have a house with a billion rooms spread over 14-16 Km areas,hostages and innocent people and hell alot of expensive jets and machines.


 
thank you!
ppl just dont use common sense nowadays!


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## farhan_9909

since the day kiyani and pasha are the cheif of PA and ISI

we are only watching failure of PA and ISI>

throw them both out


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## Dance

farhan_9909 said:


> kiyani and pasha need to resign today



So should Zardari and Gilani


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## Lankan Ranger




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## muse

And remember that Kiyani was ISI chief in the days in which Musharraf was made to fail -- anyways, it's water under the bridge --- Why: The whole point of the operation was to make the case that the Pakistanis are incompetent and a danger to their own country and the world -- my own take is that the operation is hugely successful -- who did this? You know I think it's the islamist elements of the armed forces itself - How: inside job

Will there be a public investigation? Perhaps if you can point to another previous public inquiry that involved the Pakistan armed forces 

Will Pakistan ever be free of this oppressive armed forces? Not anytime soon, brush up on your Arabic and the minutiae of how to indentify the enemies of Islam, yes, Shi'ah, of course, but lets not over look the Ahmadi and others... and the horrible Hindu, as well, yeah, that's always good.

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## Lankan Ranger

*Pakistan Taliban claim responsibility for Karachi attack
*
Pakistan Taliban claim responsibility for Karachi attack - The Times of India

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## Dance

Brig. leading the Rangers team inside PNS Mehran injured.

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## President Camacho

muse said:


> And remember that Kiyani was ISI chief in the days in which Musharraf was made to fail -- anyways, it's water under the bridge --- Why: The whole point of the operation was to make the case that the Pakistanis are incompetent and a danger to their own country and the world -- my own take is that the operation is hugely successful -- who did this? You know I think it's the islamist elements of the armed forces itself - How: inside job
> 
> Will there be a public investigation? Perhaps if you can point to another previous public inquiry that involved the Pakistan armed forces
> 
> Will Pakistan ever be free of this oppressive armed forces? Not anytime soon, brush up on your Arabic and the minutiae of how to indentify the enemies of Islam, yes, Shi'ah, of course, but lets not over look the Ahmadi and others... and *the horrible Hindu*, as well, yeah, that's always good.


 
For the extremists you are talking about, as long as Shia and Ahmadi are there, Hindus can feel completely safe... or so it seems in the recent times.


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## muse

More or later they will run out of Muslims as enemies and it's always useful to have a foreign, alien, enemy - anyway watch how ISRP will play this and please watch how Kiyani and Pasha will play this - because, it's just my take, but you will see these events influence the investigations into the OBL in Abbottabad thing.


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## sid426

RaptorRX707 said:


> More more troop trucks coming on the way, maybe little helpful.


 

Is the guy in the first pic sporting a scooter helmet?

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## sid426

On topic:-

Its a very sad incident. Violence should be shunned at all costs.

When will people learn that violence is the not a solution to any problem?


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## Dhruv V Singh

sid426 said:


> Is the guy in the first pic sporting a scooter helmet?


 
There is another one on the first pick up .

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## zer0

muse said:


> And remember that Kiyani was ISI chief in the days in which Musharraf was made to fail -- anyways, it's water under the bridge --- Why: The whole point of the operation was to make the case that the Pakistanis are incompetent and a danger to their own country and the world -- my own take is that the operation is hugely successful -- who did this? You know I think it's the islamist elements of the armed forces itself - How: inside job
> 
> Will there be a public investigation? Perhaps if you can point to another previous public inquiry that involved the Pakistan armed forces
> 
> Will Pakistan ever be free of this oppressive armed forces? Not anytime soon, brush up on your Arabic and the minutiae of how to indentify the enemies of Islam, yes, Shi'ah, of course, but lets not over look the Ahmadi and others... and the horrible Hindu, as well, yeah, that's always good.


 
WOW dude wow... soo much hate towards everyone. And the worst part is your singling out sects of Islam. It is thinking like this that made Pakistan the hole it is today. One must look past other person's religion and recognize him/her as a fellow human being, who the hell cares what religion they are, religion is their personal belief and opinion, one should not enforce it on others. 



> * enemies of Islam, yes, Shi'ah, of course, but lets not over look the Ahmadi and others... and the horrible Hindu, *


*
... your kidding right? Shi'ah Muslims are always the victim of bombings, and yes some of them do react violently to that, but thats a different story. And as for the Ahmedi MUSLIMS, are you really kidding me? name one incident where they were the trouble makers? in all the news they are the victims, their mosques are being attacked. Mosque is a mosque no matter who it belongs to. And what do you have against Hindus? it the oldest religion in the world today, LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before Islam. You should learn more about all them... enlighten yourself... dont hate others...

I dont know what kind of messed up islam your studying but its not Muhammad's Islam, i'm sure people here would agree with me.*

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## ramu

This base is Pakistan's largest chopper base. The assets of the defence forces may be secured by now.


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## sid426

I remember very vividly once AB Vajpayee said- 'Terrorism is a double edged sword'.

History tells us exactly the same. The one who nurtures terrorism gets owned by it too.

Eg:-

1) Indira Gandhi.
2) Rajiv Gandhi
3) United States
4) Pakistan.

Sad..

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## Dance

zer0 said:


> WOW dude wow... soo much hate towards everyone. And the worst part is your singling out sects of Islam. It is thinking like this that made Pakistan the hole it is today. One must look past other person's religion and recognize him/her as a fellow human being, who the hell cares what religion they are, religion is their personal belief and opinion, one should not enforce it on others.
> 
> 
> ... your kidding right? Shi'ah Muslims are always the victim of bombings, and yes some of them do react violently to that, but thats a different story. And as for the Ahmedi MUSLIMS, are you really kidding me? name one incident where they were the trouble makers? in all the news they are the victims, their mosques are being attacked. Mosque is a mosque no matter who it belongs to. And what do you have against Hindus? it the oldest religion in the world today, LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG before Islam. You should learn more about all them... enlighten yourself... dont hate others...
> 
> I dont know what kind of messed up islam your studying but its not Muhammad's Islam, i'm sure people here would agree with me.


 
He was being sarcastic...


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## TruthSeeker

Well, after the Raymond Davis affair, Kiyani kicked out a bunch of USA special forces trainers saying "We are mostly all trained up now. We don't need as much training assistance from the Americans as before." Oh, Well. Why is it so hard to find out who is really behind such events? Aren't there any crackerjack investigative reporters in the Pakistani media? Aren't there any whistleblowers in the PA who want to tell the real story? I just don't believe the real story is incompetence.

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## muse

> WOW dude wow... soo much hate towards everyone. And the worst part is your singling out sects of Islam. It is thinking like this that made Pakistan the hole it is today. One must look past other person's religion and recognize him/her as a fellow human being, who the hell cares what religion they are, religion is their personal belief and opinion, one should not enforce it on others


 
Irony and Sarcasm - do try and follow along



> your kidding right?



Duih!


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## zer0

Dance said:


> He was being sarcastic...


 
I lack the ability to comprehend sarcasm. But still there are people out there and even perhaps in this forum who think the way he described "sarcastically" 
and if he really was being sarcastic then my sincere apologies.


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## sid426

Any latest updates?


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## TruthSeeker

zer0 said:


> I lack the ability to comprehend sarcasm. But still there are people out there and even perhaps in this forum who think the way he described "sarcastically"
> and if he really was being sarcastic then my sincere apologies.


 
Obviously you are new to this Forum. muse's sarcasm is occasionally very dry and subtle. Really, sarcasm is against the rules, but the mods cut the old timers some slack in this regard.

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## muse

> I lack the ability to comprehend sarcasm.



And why should that be a problem for the rest of us? No rent collecting allowed


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## harpoon

RaptorRX707 said:


> There must be someone named Mr. Qadri (who assassinating Salman Taseer) giving tip off to Terrorists inside Navy base and instructions.



Well as long as rose petals are showered on the likes of Qadri, there will be more to take his place...people who puts their religion above the security of their country.

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## sid426

harpoon said:


> Well as long as rose petals are showered on the likes of Qadri, there will be more to take his place...people who puts their religion above the security of their country.


 
What Jinnah wanted his state to be, and what it has become..


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## Dance

I highly doubt this was a OBL revenge. This sort of highly skilled attack takes months of planning

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## Gin ka Pakistan

I think least best officers are given security branch and only VIP is given layered security . This P3 were as important to defense as a General why can't they have layered security,
The best should be sent to security branch not the lowest score job . 

Put APCs around assets , its war on Pakistan by its enemy who want to destroy its eye on the sea.


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## sid426

There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.

Wonder if its not a sort of revenge taken by the indian intelligence agencies.

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## Zarvan

Man how the hell these bastards managed to enter the base and than create havoc their where were the Guard or Cameras man they have destroyed a plane at least which cost around 3000000000 this is a security lapse


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## Zarvan

sid426 said:


> There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.
> 
> Wonder if its not a sort of revenge taken by the indian intelligence agencies.


 
If it is than wait for our answer it will be rally very hard


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## Dhruv V Singh

So whats the situation ? Is the operation over now?

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------




sid426 said:


> There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.
> 
> Wonder if its not a sort of revenge taken by the indian intelligence agencies.


 
You wish India had the balls to pull off something like that.


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## muse

> enemy who want to destroy its eye on the sea.



Really, I don't know about that - I think the mission was/is of a more strategic vision -- the aircraft are just equipment, but the hit delivered to the credibility of the state and the armed forces, the hit the population has to take -- they hit the Navy buses, you know that had to be inside job and now this, especially since the ministry of the interior had apparently warned of a imminent attack but seemingly either incompetence or political bad blood between the uniformed and civilian politicians has prevented the internalization of this warning.


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## muse

> There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.



Certainly the detailed training to have three separate attacks, the intensity of it, the determination to make it a fight to the death -- but an Indian operation, Pleeez --


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## StingRoy

sid426 said:


> There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.


 
I would rather speculate that this attack has stark similarities in terms of operation and modalities and a possibility of being carried out by the same group that was responsible for the 26/11 attack.


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## farhan_9909

ANy terrorist dead as of yet??


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## Ajaxpaul

What is the situation regarding Hostages?? Is there such a scenario itself??


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## Zarvan

farhan_9909 said:


> ANy terrorist dead as of yet??


 
6 dead and some are left


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## MiloMayor

Just came back home after a long trip and saw the news. I really feel sorry for you guys. Hopefully your commandos will be able to take control the situation at the earliest and capture some of them alive. A cowardly act by cowards should not affect the moral of your armed forces and their fight against these terrorist. Get rid of all these parasites. This is the time you should support your armed forces morally.May God bless Pakistan.


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## sid426

Dhruv V Singh said:


> So whats the situation ? Is the operation over now?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You wish India had the balls to pull off something like that.



I hope so, Our Intelligence agencies are no saints.


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## Brotherhood

*9 killed, several airplanes destroyed in air force base attack in Pakistan - People's Daily Online* 08:20, May 23, 2011 






Fire and smokes erupt from a Pakistan's military air base after an attack by militants in southern Pakistan's Karachi on May 23, 2011. Four foreigners reportedly killed in a terrorist attack at a Pakistan Air Force base in Karachi late Sunday night. (Xinhua /Arshad)

*At least nine people including three troops and six militants were killed in a terrorist attack on a Pakistan air force base in the country's southern port city of Karachi late Sunday night*, local Urdu TV channel ARY reported.

Besides,* several military airplanes including imported U.S. made P.3.C Orion aircraft were reportedly destroyed in the attack.*

*Earlier news reports said that four foreigners were killed in the attack and they were believed to be U.S. engineers working at the air force base, but a spokesman for the U.S. embassy here denied the report, saying no U.S. nationals were killed in the attack.*

The terror attack occurred at about 10:30 p.m. local time Sunday night when three explosions were first heard inside the air force base, followed by heavy gunfire.

*The government troops immediately cordoned off the area shortly after the blasts, media people, even rescue teams and ambulances were not allowed to enter the area, no one knows what exactly is going on inside the air force bas*e, said a witness.

Pakistani Interior Minister Rehman Malik later told a local media that a Pakistan air force base in Karachi is under terrorist attack.

*Local media reports said that an estimated 10 to 15 terrorists were involved in the attack and they were armed with automatic weapons, rockets and handgrenades.*

*Up till now, nine explosions have been heard inside the air force base.*

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gillani has ordered Interior Minister Rehman Malik to watch over the situation. Navy forces, rangers and other armed forces have been dispatched to the air force base and helicopters are hovering over the air force base to monitor the situation there, according to local media reports.

News reports said that* the terrorists are targeting at the airplanes dwelling in the hangars at the air force base. At least two airplanes have been destroyed completely and several others have caught fire during the gunfire.*

*Pakistan Taliban (TTP) has reportedly said they are responsible for the air force base attack.*

Following the killing of al-Qaida chief Osama bin Laden by the U.S. special task force in Pakistan's northwestern city of Abbottabad early this month, *both Pakistan Taliban and al-Qaida have vowed to avenge the death of bin Laden by threatening to launch attacks not only in Pakistan, but also in the United States as well as in the other parts of the world.*

On May 13, Pakistan Taliban launched two suicide bomb attacks on an armed border police training center in the country's northwestern city of Charsadda, killing 98 people and injuring over 140 others.* This is the first major attack launched by Pakistan Taliban following the killing of Osama bin Laden.*

Source: Xinhua


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## MJaa

so far as per media 6 killed 4 captured

one part of building has also been cleared where they are now hiding


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## muse

Do we have a firm number for the attackers? - media says 10-12 -- if there were ten, then this would be over given 6 dead and 4 in custody -- and if 12, then just 2 persons are holding off SSG, SSW and SSGN? -- I think the number may be wrong and the possibility of pre-positioning of weapons should not be discounted - again, the inside job


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## d14gtc

I sincerely hope that now pakistan will think again who is thier Enemy No.1.

Terrorirism is creating hell around the globe.... "Fighting together will only make living worth".


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## lkozhi

Why this base what is the significance


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## sid426

muse said:


> Certainly the detailed training to have three separate attacks, the intensity of it, the determination to make it a fight to the death -- but an Indian operation, Pleeez --


 
Well, I sincerely hope that the Pakistani intelligence agencies do not think the way you do. Indian intelligence agencies are no mug and getting full support from the Afghani consulates. Besides, Karachi is a major political base for MQM, and its supposed to be financed by the Indian intelligence agencies.

You never know...


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## HellzHere

If american in the base is killed....TTP and Pakistan be ready to face more US anger..


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## Dance

According to reutersPakistan: Attackers in #karachiattacks can "survive for three days": PakTalib spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan


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## farhan_9909

ISI a top agency 

my 
they are not even in the top 50 now


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## Dance

About 200 SSG Commandos, rangers as back up for the operation. No foreigners on base-official sources. Snipers on towers


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## farhan_9909

Now i totally agree

Our No.1 enemies are our own people not india or even USA

better to go for mid term election and kick kiyani and pasha very sooon


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## sid426

rash2k2 said:


> What he meant to say was that its seems so similar that same person could have planned it .



Brother leave it, even in this hour of crisis these people are thinking of hitting us hard.

Sad...

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## deckingraj

sid426 said:


> Well, I sincerely hope that the Pakistani intelligence agencies do not think the way you do. Indian intelligence agencies are no mug and getting full support from the Afghani consulates. Besides, Karachi is a major political base for MQM, and its supposed to be financed by the Indian intelligence agencies.
> 
> You never know...



There is already so much going on in Pakistan...The whole world intelligence has their eyes on Pakistan....It would be foolish to interfere there and face the wrath of International community....All the good reputation we have garnered over the years will be lost...and all this for an operation which has virtually no strategic significance for us??? are you serious buddy!!!


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## HellzHere

Zarvan said:


> If it is than wait for our answer it will be rally very hard


What will you do?


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## Chinese-Dragon

sid426 said:


> Brother leave it, even in this hour of crisis these people are thinking of hitting us hard.
> 
> Sad...


 
You're the one who said this:



sid426 said:


> There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.
> 
> Wonder if its not a sort of revenge taken by the indian intelligence agencies.


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## Zarvan

farhan_9909 said:


> ISI a top agency
> 
> my
> they are not even in the top 50 now


 
man its not an easy job they are still in top 5 agencies the war they are fighting is the most difficult one


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## jha

sid426 said:


> There are a lot of similarities in this attack and the one happened in Mumbai on 26/11.
> 
> Wonder if its not a sort of revenge taken by the indian intelligence agencies.


 
Thanks for this..Just what was required for an all open Troll Fest..


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## Zarvan

HellzHere said:


> What will you do?


 
when the time will come you will know the whole world will know


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## Areesh

I have said it before and I will say it again. Get the fu*k out of this nonsensical WOT. This WOT is destroying our society. Thanks to this WOT our economy is destroyed. Our society is deeply divided. Their is confusion and panic among all the Pakistanis. With Pakistan being part of this WOT BS I don't see such attacks being stopped even in the future. This WOT is a complete loss for Pakistan. For God's sake get the hell out of this war or else it will definitely undo the state of Pakistan. GHQ, ISI, Parliament is anybody listening to what is happening with our Pakistan.

Huh.... We are destroying our country just because some Saudi allegedly rammed airliners into a skyscraper about ten years ago. Like seriously. WTF!!!

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## Dance

30 frontier constabulary just came through in trucks


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## barryusa

Zarvan said:


> If it is than wait for our answer it will be rally very hard


 
The attack on Mumbai was at a civilian hotel and the targets were unarmed civilians. This is an attack on a military installation and the targets were apparently military assets. Not sure where there is any similarity.


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## HellzHere

Zarvan said:


> when the time will come you will know the whole world will know


According to you India is sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan...right? RAW is also supporting...what have you done?


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## farhan_9909

Geo said

the terrorist are very trained

seems like they are trained by someone superior


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## sid426

Chinese-Dragon said:


> You're the one who said this:



Mine was a mere speculation. Seeing such scenes its obvious that 26/11 comes into mind.


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## HellzHere

Areesh said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again. Get the fu*k out of this nonsensical WOT. This WOT is destroying our society. Thanks to this WOT our economy is destroyed. Our society is deeply divided. Their is confusion and panic among all the Pakistanis. With Pakistan being part of this WOT BS I don't see such attacks being stopped even in the future. This WOT is a complete loss for Pakistan. For God's sake get the hell out of this war or else it will definitely undo the state of Pakistan. GHQ, ISI, Parliament is anybody listening to what is happening with our Pakistan.
> 
> Huh.... We are destroying our country just because some Saudi allegedly rammed airliners into a skyscraper about ten years. Like seriously. WTF!!!


 Stop WOT...soon Pakistan will be taken over by Islamic extremists then..


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## Zarvan

HellzHere said:


> According to you India is sponsoring terrorism in Pakistan...right? RAW is also supporting...what have you done?


 
what we have done we know what you have done your agencies know but now what we will do with you will be really for you to know because you will be no more INSHALLAH


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## farhan_9909

Shaheed Leutienant Yasir Abbas

Died in the current incident


Ina Lillah-e-Wa Ina Ilayehay Rajoon.


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## Areesh

HellzHere said:


> Stop WOT...soon Pakistan will be taken over by Islamic extremists then..


 
Don't stop WOT their won't be any Pakistan then.


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## HellzHere

Zarvan said:


> what we have done we know what you have done your agencies know but now what we will do with you will be really for you to know because you will be no more INSHALLAH


  Go fight your extremists first..think of our end later 

---------- Post added at 09:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:38 AM ----------




Zarvan said:


> what we have done we know what you have done your agencies know but now what we will do with you will be really for you to know because you will be no more INSHALLAH


The world has already said it to Pakistan...the threat is from within your country.....but yes as you are...obsessed with India.

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## farhan_9909

rash2k2 said:


> Anz country better than pakistan in training terrorists? That will be news of the century .


 
Yeah

you got the news of the century.


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## sid426

If Pakistan gets out of WoT, The yanks will come hard after it.

Remember what Armitage said:-'We will bomb you to stone ages'.

Unfortunately, Pakistan is stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea.


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## StingRoy

Areesh said:


> Don't stop WOT their won't be any Pakistan then.


 
It is a catch 22 situation Areesh... and hope Pakistani people realize and pick the better option. If you withdraw from the WoT, it will eat Pakistan from inside, if you continue on WoT ... there is still some hope.


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## HellzHere

Areesh said:


> Don't stop WOT their won't be any Pakistan then.


Don't you think if you stop pressing these extremists they will soon take over Pakistan??? They have a huge militant support for their uprising...stop WoT and Pakistan might turn to pre US invasion Afghanistan...controlled by extremists.


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## Dance

Areesh said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again. Get the fu*k out of this nonsensical WOT. This WOT is destroying our society. Thanks to this WOT our economy is destroyed. Our society is deeply divided. Their is confusion and panic among all the Pakistanis. With Pakistan being part of this WOT BS I don't see such attacks being stopped even in the future. This WOT is a complete loss for Pakistan. For God's sake get the hell out of this war or else it will definitely undo the state of Pakistan. GHQ, ISI, Parliament is anybody listening to what is happening with our Pakistan.
> 
> Huh.... We are destroying our country just because some Saudi allegedly rammed airliners into a skyscraper about ten years ago. Like seriously. WTF!!!



This may have not started off as being Pakistans war, but after today its clear that Pakistan is in war. This attack is way worse than the one on GHQ and even if we pull out the situation is not going to change significantly. Until we face this monster head on and get rid of it, things will remain the same.


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## deckingraj

Areesh said:


> Don't stop WOT their won't be any Pakistan then.


 
You want to stop WOT, go ahead do it...but do it on your terms...not because you are not able to control terrorists...bcoz even if you stop they will not....You had understanding with them and even agreed to Sharia law in some pockets of Pakistan...guess what they took over banur....so please think from all those angles.....


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## baker

first of all RIP to the victims........

it is completely strange kind of attack... terrorists targeting naval base.......  pak need to clean all the terrorist sympathisers inside armed forces....


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## Kompromat

Some "traitor" was involved in this operation , there is NO WAY someone can get in and do whatever they want to do without any help from inside.


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## jahangeer yousaf

so this is the first hammer to create a hyper that pakistan cannot save its nukes .............. and it will keep coming until they try to capture our nukes ..... may ALLAH bless pakistan


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## Areesh

Dance said:


> This may have not started off as being Pakistans war, but after today its clear that Pakistan is in war. This attack is way worse than the one on GHQ and even if we pull out the situation is not going to change significantly. Until we face this monster head on and get rid of it, things will remain the same.


 
This is still not Pakistan's war. At least huge population of Pakistan doesn't consider it to be Pakistan's war. And in my view they are justified. It is not Pakistan's war. It was showed down our throats by a phone call from Washington and our commando president submitted to it. It isn't our war when Americans dictating Pakistani establishment over it. It isn't our war when Americans bombing our people. This isn't our war. If this is war then it should be Pakistani people who should decide how we will fight this war not America. Unfortunately right now it is America who is deciding how Pakistan will fight "it's own" war. This isn't our war.


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## Patriot

Areesh said:


> This is still not Pakistan's war. At least huge population of Pakistan doesn't consider it to be Pakistan's war.


 And That my friend is the reason we get attacked regularly - If our population keep having sympathy for these scums then it does not matter how high our security is we will get attacked - The reason why US Has not been attacked after 9/11 it is because the population does not support extremists.

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## waq

After the destruction of the orions what should we assume of our anti submarine capability??????


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## sid426

Rest in Peace the departed soul.

Bhagwaan unki aatma ko shaanti de.


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## deckingraj

jahangeer yousaf said:


> so this is the first hammer to create a hyper that pakistan cannot save its nukes .............. and it will keep coming until they try to capture our nukes ..... may ALLAH bless pakistan


 
and why should people not say that...whosoever did it, they manage to attack your Naval Base....supposedly well Guarded, no???


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## Zarvan

whats the situation now GUYS?


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## deckingraj

waq said:


> After the destruction of the orions what should we assume of our anti submarine capability??????


 
What??? How many Orion's Pak got??? I am assuming only one got destroyed...right???


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## Zarvan

Is operation over if not how long it can take???????????????????


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## Dance

Areesh said:


> This is still not Pakistan's war. At least huge population of Pakistan doesn't consider it to be Pakistan's war. And in my view they are justified. It is not Pakistan's war. It was showed down our throats by a phone call from Washington and our commando president submitted to it. It isn't our war when Americans dictating Pakistani establishment over it. It isn't our war when Americans bombing our people. This isn't our war. If this is war then it should be Pakistani people who should decide how we will fight this war not America. Unfortunately right now it is America who is deciding how Pakistan will fight "it's own" war. This isn't our war.



You're right in that it wasn't our war to begin with but what about after today? We've have been consistently attacked and 35,000 people have died. We have to fight this war whether we like it or not because it has affected us so greatly. We should fight this war not because America wants us to or for American interests but rather for Pakistan/Pakistani interests. If we don't take proper action against these people then more people are going to die and Pakistan will be fast on its way on becoming another Afghanistan/Sudan/etc. This may not be like the convential wars we've been through with india but we're still in war state

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## d14gtc

Zarvan said:


> what we have done we know what you have done your agencies know but now what we will do with you will be really for you to know because you will be no more INSHALLAH


 
An here all the problem lies............ "your own house is in mess but still plannin to bullet the neighbour house"

Pak has nukes n arms but only ammo wont solve your purpose what if you wnt sustane a war a single day...... Yeah you got me right ?

Dnt take me wrong but ------ At every front pakistan bearing problems....your first priority must be to sustane every single day without any incident.... Earlier US now China - Think why you always need a supporting hand to backup your situation.


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## Areesh

deckingraj said:


> You want to stop WOT, go ahead do it...but do it on your terms...not because you are not able to control terrorists...bcoz even if you stop they will not....You had understanding with them and even agreed to Sharia law in some pockets of Pakistan...guess what they took over banur....so please think from all those angles.....


 
Obviously if we back out of this war we would definitely end it on our terms. You know what is the problem right now. When ever we ask TTP terrorists that why they are attacking Pakistan their first answer is we are fighting war against America and it's "agents". The thing is our military and our state is considered as the agents by these guys. We have to get rid of this label. If they continue their activities even after that their would be more consensus among Pakistani nation against these people. Right now not only Pakistani nation is divided but also I can see rift in the military. This incident can't be possible without inside help. This is the worst part of this stupid WOT. Just because of this war after society I feel a divide in the military too. This might be the worst fruit we can get of this pathetic war.


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## Riz

WTF is going on, what are our security forces & spy agencies are doing, Number of our jawan has been killed & under hostage several warplane has been destroyed by those morons but not a single of them has been killed or captured yet, a big question on the credibility of our forces & spy agencies, what the Fcuk is going on, it has been getting daily routine now, after every mishap we heard beefing from ISPR that fool prof security has been arranged for all the intensive areas, where are these fool proof arrangements, i am worried some day some one will be able to fly away F-16 with fully loaded armament...............


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## Mav3rick

Aeronaut said:


> Some "traitor" was involved in this operation , there is NO WAY someone can get in and do whatever they want to do without any help from inside.


 
Help and intel was provided along with training, weapons and equipment. This much is certain. All we need to determine is whether all that came from within or from a place very far away. My bet is on the place that is very far away as TTP is trained, recruited, armed and guided by ......... CIA. Ofcourse CIA is not the lone ranger in this game, RAW and MOSSAD, very likely, play their part too.

The next logical step is an attack on some important European city, probably with a dirty bomb which would provide a final opportunity to the US to prove that Pakistani Nuclear material is not secure enough. It will also ensure renewed European support and involvement in the war of terror against Muslims. God knows what will happen in the next 5-10 years but the state of the world today sure brings to memory some of the end of world prophecies defined in all 3 religions (Islam, Christianity & Judaism).


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## Zarvan

Dance said:


> You're right in that it wasn't our war to begin with but what about after today? We've have been consistently attacked and 35,000 people have died. We have to fight this war whether we like it or not because it has affected us so greatly. We should fight this war not because America wants us to or for American interests but rather for Pakistan/Pakistani interests. If we don't take proper action against these people then more people are going to die and Pakistan will be fast on its way on becoming another Afghanistan/Sudan/etc. This may not be like the convential wars we've been through with india but we're still in war state


 
Sir as long as Americas name will remain attached to this war till that day we will still keep getting hit but our own people we have to first end all cooperation with America than talk to Tribes and than make them our allies and than take on these bastards


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## muse

> first end all cooperation with America than talk to Tribes and than make them our allies



Exactly the choice this operation is designed to force Pakistani politics into -- and now look at the prescription - first make the enemy an ally --- and then go after.... who ??

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## Dance

Zarvan said:


> Sir as long as Americas name will remain attached to this war till that day we will still keep getting hit but our own people we have to first end all cooperation with America than talk to Tribes and than make them our allies and than take on these bastards


 
Madam* I personally think that even if America withdraws or we end our cooperation with them they will still keep attacking us, which is why we need to finish them off.The tribes in FATA are mostly our allies, they have have born the brunt of the taliban the most out of everyone in Pakistan.

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## Areesh

Dance said:


> You're right in that it wasn't our war to begin with but what about after today? We've have been consistently attacked and 35,000 people have died. We have to fight this war whether we like it or not because it has affected us so greatly. We should fight this war not because America wants us to or for American interests but rather for Pakistan/Pakistani interests. If we don't take proper action against these people then more people are going to die and Pakistan will be fast on its way on becoming another Afghanistan/Sudan/etc. This may not be like the convential wars we've been through with india but we're still in war state


 
Nope. Pakistan isn't going to become sudan if we get out of this war but if we remain part of this war we will definitely be sudan or somalia or afghanistan(if Pakistan exist). a common Pakistani doesn't agree with the ideology of TTP but they also don't like America's invasion of Pakistani territory. It is because of Pakistani establishment's continuous slavery to America that is increasing support for these terrorists. If we minus America from this equation I don't think their would be any Pakistani who would support these guys. We have to get out of this stupid war. It is leading us to a total disaster.


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## Mav3rick

muse said:


> Exactly the choice this operation is designed to force Pakistani politics into -- and now look at the prescription - first make the enemy an ally --- and then go after.... who ??


 
Probably to go after terrorists. Ofcourse my definition of a 'terrorist' is extremely different to that of the US.


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## Areesh

muse said:


> Exactly the choice this operation is designed to force Pakistani politics into -- and now look at the prescription - first make the enemy an ally --- and then go after.... who ??


 
So you want to say Pakistan's tribes are Pakistan's enemies??? Bravo Think Tank!!!!


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## ambivalence

As a spectator who is seeing this tragedy unfold on his TV screen i would like to offer my condolences to People of Pakistan and the brave who have fallen thus far. its truly a sad day for Pakistan and its people. Having said that, i feel its high time that the Army and the Intelligence chiefs of the country should be sacked as they have failed to deliver time and time again. Furthermore, the Pakistan Army should launch an internal investigation to see if any of its personal were involved in tipping the terrorists off. Secondly, i feel that the Pakistanis need to rid themselves of the mentality that they are fighting an American proxy war as it is quite evident from this attack that Pakistan is fighting a battle for its survival. The Pakistani's should find the people responsible and deal with them accordingly. Its make or break time for Pakistan and its people as now is the time to decide the future they want for themselves and their country.

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## Dance

Its been 11 hours now. Does any one know if this operation is even close to being done?


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## muse

> So you want to say Pakistan's tribes are Pakistan's enemies??? Bravo Think Tank!!!!



Unless of course Baitullah and Hakimullah are ethnic Russians, yes, Pakistan's enemies are from within the tribals - Hakimullah, a Mehsud or a brahmin??

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## Areesh

Patriot said:


> And That my friend is the reason we get attacked regularly - If our population keep having sympathy for these scums then it does not matter how high our security is we will get attacked - The reason why US Has not been attacked after 9/11 it is because the population does not support extremists.


 
Their president wasn't call and forced to join someone else war. You made a wrong analogy dear.


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## farhan_9909

one terrorist shot down itself


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## Areesh

muse said:


> Unless of course Baitullah and Hakimullah are ethnic Russians, yes, Pakistan's enemies are from within the tribals - Hakimullah, a Mehsud or a brahmin??


 
And their are many punjabi and urdu speakers also who are associated with these groups. What we should do now. Kill all tribals, punjabis and urdu speakers.


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## Dance

Areesh said:


> Nope. Pakistan isn't going to become sudan if we get out of this war but if we remain part of this war we will definitely be sudan or somalia or afghanistan(if Pakistan exist). a common Pakistani doesn't agree with the ideology of TTP but they also don't like America's invasion of Pakistani territory. It is because of Pakistani establishment's continuous slavery to America that is increasing support for these terrorists. If we minus America from this equation I don't think their would be any Pakistani who would support these guys. We have to get out of this stupid war. It is leading us to a total disaster.


 
Okay lets say Pakistan stops cooperation with America. What about the TTP and their bombings, what happens if they doesn't stop after we say we will not cooperate with America? What are we going to do? I'm against Pakistan fighting for American interests but Pakistan isn't even fighting for its own interests


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## sid426

Only if Pakistan works in desisting terrorism of all forms only than it can boast of having a peaceful,multi cultural society.

One who uses violence to make his claims is a terrorist and all the 'strategic assets' of PA should be disbanded and disarmed.


Resist Violence, condemn it instead of using it for short sighted gains.


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## All-Green

desiman said:


> *can Pakistan really guarantee the safety of its nuclear establishments now as well ?*


 
Yes it can, as much as anyone else can anyways.
What absolute guarantee is there for any other country?
Lots of weapons grade material is not accounted for after USSR was split up as well...certainly there are no guarantees.
Even USA has had few incidents where nuclear weapons were not really secure and the crew did not even know that nukes were being transported!
U.S. nuclear weapons security--a "silly" notion | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

and there have been information leaks as well.
Nuclear weapons agency chief quits over lapses | Reuters

Many countries went nuclear (India, Pakistan, Israel) and got parts from here and there despite a ban on such transfers, there were indeed people sitting in the developed world who were willing to sell something...so what if the terrorists are the buyers in future?
There are no guarantees in this world.

Nuclear security protocol is very different.
Usually the shoot first and ask questions later kind of security.

There are other strategies in place as well.
Nukes are supposed to be stored in areas which are physically much more isolated and far from populations centers.
Unknown faces are treated as suspicious whether in uniform or not.
Different components are not supposed to be at one place
Authorization codes are complex and known to few people in parts and not as a whole.
There are a lot of different SOPs particular to Pakistan which i am certainly not aware of but certainly there is a significant planning done in this regards since the threat could have been from any organization.

As opposed to this, many of the cantonments and bases in Pakistan are not isolated and this is indeed a problem which makes it difficult to simplify the security.
As the cities have grown, the residential/industrial areas have surrounded the cantonments which were once far off from the main cities.
It makes it impossible to implement the shoot first strategy at the perimeter boundary as a civilian will be stopped and questioned first, instead of being killed in cold blood!
...Giving him an advantage if he is actually a terrorist.

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## Zarvan

muse said:


> Exactly the choice this operation is designed to force Pakistani politics into -- and now look at the prescription - first make the enemy an ally --- and then go after.... who ??


 
all right than keep on fighting them for next 100 years at least because I assure you that they have a great stamina of fighting you for next 100 years because Patahan always remains a Patahan


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## Dance

One reporter on twitter who is on site is saying: 'It's been quiet for the past 40 minutes. Possible security forces are clearing the area. Haven't heard gunfire/explosions."


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## Zarvan

Dance said:


> Madam* I personally think that even if America withdraws or we end our cooperation with them they will still keep attacking us, which is why we need to finish them off.The tribes in FATA are mostly our allies, they have have born the brunt of the taliban the most out of everyone in Pakistan.


 
sir they will not attack you than whole world knows and than you can take help of MULLAH OMAR in exposing this TTP and this will help you a lot a lot and second think I am a male not madam


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## Areesh

Dance said:


> Okay lets say Pakistan stops cooperation with America. What about the TTP and their bombings, what happens if they doesn't stop after we say we will not cooperate with America? What are we going to do? I'm against Pakistan fighting for American interests but Pakistan isn't even fighting for its own interests


 
You know Dance. After Pakistan ends cooperation with USA on WOT TTP won't have any reason for these bombings. Even today when they claimed responsibility of these attacks they said we conducted these attacks because of Pakistan's slavery to USA. They say we are fighting against America and it's "agents". They consider us the agents. They consider our military to be mercenaries. We have to remove this label from our forehead. Even after that if they continue their activities their would be more consensus among the Pakistanis against them.


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## farhan_9909

terrorists has security offricers entry cards

seems like inside job

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## IndianTiger

Two P-3C Orion planes, supplied by
U.S, destroyed in
attack. Reports:
Pakistan Taliban claim
responsibility for
Karachi attack


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## sid426

any new updates?


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## Roby

may the dead RIP


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## Dance

Areesh said:


> You know Dance. After Pakistan ends cooperation with USA on WOT TTP won't have any reason for these bombings. Even today when they claimed responsibility of these attacks they said we conducted these attacks because of Pakistan's slavery to USA. They say we are fighting against America and it's "agents". They consider us the agents. They consider our military to be mercenaries. We have to remove this label from our forehead. Even after that if they continue their activities their would be more consensus among the Pakistanis against them.


 
But are these TTP scums to be trusted? They have no trouble in killing innocent people around Pakistan and remember the the whole Swat fiasco? Should we trust them enough that they won't harm us if we stop cooperating with America? With the Swat deal they didn't keep their promise, why would they keep any other promises? There should be a strict consenus against the TTP and if there are any Pakistanis STILL supporting them then they are the lowest of the low.


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## Kompromat

posted before.


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## muse

Poor Pakistanis, the between their duplicitous politicians, incompetent and scheming soldiers, murderous religious scholars, their tribal teenage suicide bombers, their gang members that surpass the number of police -- it's enough to drive them into DENIAL - yes that river in Egypt through which all that Pakistan knows flows through:

Are all tribals our enemies? Are all Muslims, Are all Wahabis, Are all Deobandis? All urdu speakers?? and what of those Pounjab de putr??

These questions are not particularly cleaver but they are designed to ensure Pakistanis remain confused, that they never articulate clearly who the enemy is -- well, lets break that chain, the enemy is the Islamist ideology powered by dollars from Saudi Arabia, in pursuit of their war against all other kinds of Muslims - In Pakistan, this means killing the state, country and Nation that Mohammad Ali Jinnah, Quaid E Aazaam created and to replace it with a Islamist hell hole

But wait - does that mean we have to kill all our enemies, be theuy tribals, Urdu speakers, Pounjabis, Wahabis or whatever?? Hell yes!!, That's exactly what it means.

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## Riz

New alert on ARY, 7 Security personal & 4 Terrorist has been killed so for.............


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## Dance

According to reports: Pakistan Navy has so far lost 6 sailors, 1 Rangers guy. Terrorists were using heavy machine guns, RPGs, Hand Grenades and 4 terrorists killed, 3 have killed themselves, 4 arrested.


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## djmanj

sid426 said:


> Is the guy in the first pic sporting a scooter helmet?


 
Looks like a cooking pan.


I wonder how terrorists can get into a naval base so daringly? Lets see how long it takes for the commandos to clear the threat. For every second longer the terrorists are inside the base more embarrassing it is for the military establishment. Its been over 12 hours since the initial attack.


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## Zarvan

Dance said:


> But are these TTP scums to be trusted? They have no trouble in killing innocent people around Pakistan and remember the the whole Swat fiasco? Should we trust them enough that they won't harm us if we stop cooperating with America? With the Swat deal they didn't keep their promise, why would they keep any other promises? There should be a strict consenus against the TTP and if there are any Pakistanis STILL supporting them then they are the lowest of the low.


 
First you end the reason for them to attack us than when America will leave you can take help of Mullah Omar because Mullah Omar is against attacks in Pakistan and they use his name wrongly in attacking Pakistan but when Mullah Omar will expose him they will lose all the support which they have


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## Kompromat

One of the dead terrorists is a foreigner


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## DarK-LorD

ARE the foreigners taken hostage Americans?


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## ambivalence

*After Pakistan ends cooperation with USA on WOT TTP won't have any reason for these bombings. Even today when they claimed responsibility of these attacks they said we conducted these attacks because of Pakistan's slavery to USA.*

Do you really believe that? They are your sworn enemies, who consider you to be the infidels (even though you share the same faith, their version is a twisted one) and kill your people by the hundreds and you are ready to negotiate?its a naive notion if you ask me. in other words, you are expecting the terrorists to think rationally? well good luck with that. As i said in a Previous post, Pakistanis need to rid themselves of the mentality that they are fighting an American proxy war. The terrorists are not on your doorstep any more, they has broken through your defenses and its now wreaking havoc in your major cities. So you can keep calling them your people and cutting them some slack time and time again but extremism is eating your society from the inside like a termite. its your choice to let the whole charade carry on, or muster the courage to do something about them. they later would serve your purpose better. ( personal view, open to debate.)

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## Markus

Is fighting still going on?


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## DarK-LorD

Well are the PA using Air support in the form of Cobra Gunship?


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## huzihaidao12

ambivalence said:


> *After Pakistan ends cooperation with USA on WOT TTP won't have any reason for these bombings. Even today when they claimed responsibility of these attacks they said we conducted these attacks because of Pakistan's slavery to USA.*
> 
> Do you really believe that? They are your sworn enemies, who consider you to be the infidels (even though you share the same faith, their version is a twisted one) and kill your people by the hundreds and you are ready to negotiate?its a naive notion if you ask me. in other words, you are expecting the terrorists to think rationally? well good luck with that. As i said in a Previous post, Pakistanis need to rid themselves of the mentality that they are fighting an American proxy war. The terrorists are not on your doorstep any more, they has broken through your defenses and its now wreaking havoc in your major cities. So you can keep calling them your people and cutting them some slack time and time again but extremism is eating your society from the inside like a termite. its your choice to let the whole charade carry on, or muster the courage to do something about them. they later would serve your purpose better. ( personal view, open to debate.)


 
Regardless of extremist action, but this action more like a well-trained military action, it is very clearly targeted, the purpose is clear to the military bases and importantmilitary resources (PC3), do you really think that extremism can have Such action?

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## farhan_9909

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Well are the PA using Air support in the form of Cobra Gunship?


 
they are in one of the building

they cant bomb the whole building


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## Markus

How many Orions remain with Pakistan Navy now?


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## Areesh

Dance said:


> But are these TTP scums to be trusted? They have no trouble in killing innocent people around Pakistan and remember the the whole Swat fiasco? Should we trust them enough that they won't harm us if we stop cooperating with America? With the Swat deal they didn't keep their promise, why would they keep any other promises? There should be a strict consenus against the TTP and if there are any Pakistanis STILL supporting them then they are the lowest of the low.


 

Nobody is trusting them. Nobody is giving them the charge of FATA. We are just siding us away from America's war to make it our own war. And as you give the example of Swat if they continue their activities against the State of Pakistan, it would be more easy to fight against them just like it was against Swati taliban when continued their activities after the nifaz e shariat. The major reason behind the success of that operation was because their was consensus among the Pakistani people. Right now being an American slave we definitely can't build that consensus even I know this thing looks stupid. 

Dance just for one second think. If the advantages of this WOT are greater than the disadvantages then please continue with the war. BUT if the disadvantages are greater than the advantages I think we should quit this BS. Think yourself.


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## farhan_9909

Markus said:


> Is fighting still going on?


 
no..no fire no blast from the last 1 hour

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## Patriot

Four terrorists arrested and three blew themselves up.


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## huzihaidao12

More like a special operations than the general acts of terror.

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## Indianflanker

Terrorist Destroyed 2 P3c orien Aircraft of Pak Navy...

Whether these 2 were latest one...


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## kingkobra

huzihaidao12 said:


> Regardless of extremist action, but this action is more like a well-trained military action, which targeted a very strong, do you really think that extremism can have such action?


 
sir you are underestimating capabilities of terrorists...they always know that they are not going to be alive after they attack...so they are prepared at many different levels than other soldiers..

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## muse

Dance said:


> According to reports: Pakistan Navy has so far lost 6 sailors, 1 Rangers guy. Terrorists were using heavy machine guns, RPGs, Hand Grenades and 4 terrorists killed, 3 have killed themselves, 4 arrested.


 

Pre-positioned -- inside job, with the help and cooperation of low level Pakistani soldiers, airmen and sailors -- Now this cannot be hidden from the world, that the real reason Pakistan does not make progress against terrorism, and Islamist extremism, is because a good portion of it's forces are suffer from the contagion of Islamism - so small acts of sabotage are now common and of course large operations like this are also considered - the blame will go on "foreigners", Indians and Mossad and Martians -- but the world will now know exactly where the rot is and so will the people of Pakistan --

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## Geronimo2011

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Point being that even this attack on a naval base resulted in minimal damage - the terrorists did no 'fly off' with a P3 or chopper.
> 
> Hypothetically, if such an attack did take place at a nuclear facility, the result would be the same - a few security personnel might be martyred, minor damage here and there, potential hostage situation, and eventually all terrorists killed.
> 
> There is simply nothing to suggest that an attack on a nuclear installation would result in a meltdown or any strategic assets being compromised. The amount of manpower and explosive material required to do that is something that is simply impossible for any terrorist organization to put together.


 
Hypothetically, if a group of 20 terrorists capture a building with a few nuclear warheads.. What will it take in your opinion for them to detonate one of them right there??


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## huzihaidao12

If they are terrorists, then they must have received a good military training, it seems like a special operations training. without outside help, what terrorist organizations can provide such military operations?


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## RescueRanger

Blunder after Blunder... Bravo!

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## Ajaxpaul

It is not only the question of entering the base, also with such huge amount of ammo to fight armed forces for 11 hours straight!! and that too in a military base. These terrorist are taking the game 1 level higher each time. What gives them this motivation?? Pakistan has to attack that motive first.


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## muse

Terrorist organizations that have the assistance of elements of the state


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## S10

kingkobra said:


> sir you are underestimating capabilities of terrorists...they always know that they are not going to be alive after they attack...so they are prepared at many different levels than other soldiers..


True, most of the Mumbai attackers had no intention of being taken alive. Still, to fight passed trained guards at a secured military installation is not something rag-tag band of militants can do. You need some major planning and preparation for that. Most importantly, intelligence on target which may be provided by turncoats.


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## huzihaidao12

kingkobra said:


> sir you are underestimating capabilities of terrorists...they always know that they are not going to be alive after they attack...so they are prepared at many different levels than other soldiers..


 
No, this is a special operations as the in-depth internal, not to detonate a bomb at the door. Some things do not like.


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## Patriot

Nothing short of a massive operation in NW will solve this problem.


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## @rrows

operation completed 4 terrorists killed and 4 arrested. Geo news


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## huzihaidao12

S10 said:


> True, most of the Mumbai attackers had no intention of being taken alive. Still, to fight passed trained guards at a secured military installation is not something rag-tag band of militants can do. You need some major planning and preparation for that. Most importantly, intelligence on target which may be provided by turncoats.



Mumbai is a city unguarded, which is military bases, Indian police's equipment is old, India's reaction is slow. This is a completely different and this military action.


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## President Camacho

Areesh said:


> You know Dance. *After Pakistan ends cooperation with USA on WOT TTP won't have any reason for these bombings. Even today when they claimed responsibility of these attacks they said we conducted these attacks because of Pakistan's slavery to USA. They say we are fighting against America and it's "agents". They consider us the agents.* They consider our military to be mercenaries. We have to remove this label from our forehead. Even after that if they continue their activities their would be more consensus among the Pakistanis against them.


 
So... some illiterate crazies call you Amrikan agents and what not... and to prove those crazies that you are not an Amrikan agent in their eyes, *you are ready to change your foreign policy, and let them decide who be your allies and who not.* So who is the bigger crazy here?

What is the guarantee that they will not attack you in future and call you slaves of an atheist China? Will you change your allies and foreign policies again to please them? 

By saying all that you said above, you are only proving that you want them to decide what should your foreign policies be. 

If I take your views seriously and look deeper into it, it becomes even more horrifying: They call you slaves of America. Okay, but why? *Because Pakistan is not run on their version of Sharia.* 

So, are you ready to get the US and yourself out of this WoT which is keeping them from installing their Sharia all over Pakistan? Because US going back, and you retreating, will give them their well earned rightly deserved motivation to go further and ask for more and more. You ready to feed them?

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## farhan_9909

personaly i think if they knew tat where the nukes are(probably our armed forces personals who are qadri type will tell them)

they can even get hand on nukes

the battle has reachd its final stage


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## muse

Patriot said:


> Nothing short of a massive operation in NW will solve this problem.


 

You sure that's where the head of this beast is? I just wanted to point out that KSM and OBL both arrested from towns with a heavy military contingent - coincidence?? Others have been arrested from the homes of Jamaatis - Coincidence??


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## ambivalence

huzihaidao12 said:


> Regardless of extremist action, but this action more like a well-trained military action, it is very clearly targeted, the purpose is clear to the military bases and importantmilitary resources (PC3), do you really think that extremism can have Such action?



well the terrorists have held their ground against the coalition forces and the Pakistani army so its safe to say that the aren't your regular rag tag guerrilla fighters. They are battle hardened individuals and have the ability to plan and execute an elaborate attack. Insider help cannot be ruled out but to say they were trained by the CIA or any other spy agency for that matter is utter speculation.


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## Indianflanker

There is report some insider were involved...


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## jha

S10 said:


> True, most of the Mumbai attackers had no intention of being taken alive. Still, to fight passed trained guards at a secured military installation is not something rag-tag band of militants can do. You need some major planning and preparation for that. Most importantly, intelligence on target which may be provided by turncoats.



They were armed to teeth...Heavy Machine Guns , RPGs , High Caliber Rifles , Hand Grenades to keep fighting for more than 12 hours in such a secured location...? Can any outsider facilitate this..? This must be an Insider job and that too at higher level..


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## Markus

This event will bring in increased American scrutiny on Pakistan's military assets especially its nukes.

If the terrorists can attack a naval base, attacking a nuke installation is not impossible.

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## Indianflanker

Latest news Mulla Umar is Dead... ( report from Afgan TV )


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## Areesh

Patanjali said:


> So... some illiterate crazies call you Amrikan agents and what not... and to prove those crazies that you are not an Amrikan agent in their eyes, you are ready to change your foreign policy, and let them decide who be your allies and who not. So who is the bigger crazy here?


 
It is not about proving someone it is about making WOT our war which it isn't right now. With America bombing Pakistani territory I don't think their can be any consensus about this war. The bigger craziness is that we are fighting a war for last 10 years with a huge population confused about that war. This is craziness.


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## SSGPA1

Allah-o-Akbar ... killed 3 arrested 4 and have moved on to the next building ... excellent work by the SSG ... next step - conduct full inquiry and details must be made available to the people of Pakistan ... An action must be taken against external and internal enemies.

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## Omar1984

This event clearly exposes the fact that Pakistani navy is incompetant and needs the help of a trusted close powerful ally to help protects their mutual strategic intersts with that trusted close powerful ally.

The Pakistan navy can not even protect its own base, what will happen when India or U.S. invades the coast in Balochistan.

All Pakistanis should welcome a Chinese naval base after this event.

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## huzihaidao12

It is possible, if you say a terrorist organization to provide personnel, but such an operation has exceeded their ability, who trained them, who give them orders?


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## jha

Firing has started again it seems..


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## Che Guevara

Firing has stared again


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## huzihaidao12

Markus said:


> This event will bring in increased American scrutiny on Pakistan's military assets especially its nukes.
> 
> If the terrorists can attack a naval base, attacking a nuke installation is not impossible.


 
Yes, it is possible for the true purpose behind, but no evidence.


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## Zarvan

Omar1984 said:


> This event clearly exposes the fact that Pakistani navy is incompetant and needs the help of a trusted close powerful ally to help protects their mutual strategic intersts with that trusted close powerful ally.
> 
> The Pakistan navy can not even protect its own base, what will happen when India or U.S. invades the coast in Balochistan.
> 
> All Pakistanis should welcome a Chinese naval base after this event.


 
Should I remind you than even GHQ got attacked and Terrorists even took some hostages


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## jha

huzihaidao12 said:


> It is possible, if you say a terrorist organization to provide personnel, but such an operation has exceeded their ability, who trained them, who give them orders?


 

They do have excellent trainers with them..Retired officers must have trained them.
If they can manage to get someone to do such intensive Rece for them then Training is a cakewalk..


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## Matterhorn

NW Operation requires forces for sustainability and a subsequent holding of cleared area. Not possible right now. Yes Americans keep harping on this NW operation. They need to block the border from across if they feel this zone is used to disrupt them in Afghanistan/


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## Roby

Indianflanker said:


> Latest news Mulla Umar is Dead... ( report from Afgan TV )



what ?? .


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## Dance

Areesh said:


> Nobody is trusting them. Nobody is giving them the charge of FATA. We are just siding us away from America's war to make it our own war. And as you give the example of Swat if they continue their activities against the State of Pakistan, it would be more easy to fight against them just like it was against Swati taliban when continued their activities after the nifaz e shariat. The major reason behind the success of that operation was because their was consensus among the Pakistani people. Right now being an American slave we definitely can't build that consensus even I know this thing looks stupid.
> 
> Dance just for one second think. If the advantages of this WOT are greater than the disadvantages then please continue with the war. BUT if the disadvantages are greater than the advantages I think we should quit this BS. Think yourself.


 
I am thinking and after todays disaster I'm even more convinced that Pakistan is fighting for its survival. The Americans will leave soon and Pakistan will have to deal with the mess after they leave. I'm not saying that we should fight the WOT for American interests or that we should be American slaves but rather for our own. Whether we like it or not, we are heavily involved in this war and because we are we need to use it to get rid of hostile elements that threaten Pakistan.

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## muse

TV coverage must never have been allowed -- now as long as there is coverage and the terrorists know it, they will be more ferocious - they need the coverage and the security needs to clamp down on this.


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## MumbaiIndians

USA and Europe are just trying to keep alive their dying influence in the region -

1. If USA and NATO wants, it can finish off this Taliban business very quickly. But they won't.
2. Pakistan is not allowing US investments into its economy the way americans want it. This will allow USA to take control of Pakistan in more comprehensive way. This is a major contention between US and Pakistan, OBL is only a smaller drama and irrelevant here.
3. USA wants to cut off Pakistan from India and sabotage SAARC economic block. SAARC currency will single handedly over-shadow Euro as single biggest currency block in just 10 years, if you look at market size of SAARC.
4. Keeping TTP alive helps in accomplishing 2 and 3.
5. After the Civilian Govt. (zardari) came to power, 2 and 3 are becoming more difficult because Civilian politicos of Pakistan are in favour of good economic relations with India.
6. The recent OBL episode took place due to event 5. Otherwise, there was no hurry to do 5. OBL episode is convincing me that, USA will attempt something more desperate in coming months to take control in the region.

Now, some obervations:

1. Let it be clear, that an unstable Pakistan in hands of Jihadis is bad for India and China both. But it fully achieves USA+British European agendas for region. 
2. There might be some temptations in China to let this unstable situation carry on for few more years or a decade, to slow down regional growth. It will help China push up its own profile in Asia. 
3. China has no stakes in SAARC or rupee block. In fact, it will only hurt China(renmibi) as competitor. Same is true with Dollar and Euro. Noone likes a new competitor.
4. Saudis have no role in this region and never had in history. Those who think they have, are fooling themself and only helping outside agendas. Saudis have sold out their own state to west, why they will fight for you? The recent attack on Saudi diplomat was showing this frustration of a segment in Pakistan who believed in that idea. Its a wake up sign.

Points 3,3 above are very important. That's the reason China, USA and Europe all have common objective here. They will keep region boiling forever and break it if possible.

*I think the end-game here is, India and Pakistan should join hands to finish off this western funded terrorism mess(started with Saudi+USA funded Jehad war on Soviets) and form an economic union. Lets bring peace and prosperity for our brothers. Its time to complete what was left in 1947.*


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## Che Guevara

huge blast and firing is going on


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## Kompromat




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## S10

huzihaidao12 said:


> Mumbai is a city unguarded, which is military bases, Indian police's equipment is old, India's reaction is slow. This is a completely different and this military action.


After the initial chaos, India dispatched MARCOS and Black Cats to deal with terrorists. It still took special forces more than 12 hours of fighting to bring the situation under control. Clearly, terrorists in Mumbai were not some two bit rag-tags.

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## huzihaidao12

jha said:


> They do have excellent trainers with them..Retired officers must have trained them.
> If they can manage to get someone to do such intensive Rece for them then Training is a cakewalk..


 
You look at past history, when terrorism can penetrate inside a military base in a storm? All just limited to suicide bombings at the door. when such acts of terrorism directed against military resources (PC3), more personal injury is not a better choice?


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## Dance

muse said:


> Pre-positioned -- inside job, with the help and cooperation of low level Pakistani soldiers, airmen and sailors -- Now this cannot be hidden from the world, that the real reason Pakistan does not make progress against terrorism, and Islamist extremism, is because a good portion of it's forces are suffer from the contagion of Islamism - so small acts of sabotage are now common and of course large operations like this are also considered - the blame will go on "foreigners", Indians and Mossad and Martians -- but the world will now know exactly where the rot is and so will the people of Pakistan --


 
There is a strong possibility that there was help from ex-army men and what not and that should be exposed and investigated.

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## muse

India Pakistan and China -- for Pakistan, we like and want to travel the three of us, Pakistan, India and CHINA -- between us with Bangla and Myanamar and Afghanistan and all the other central Asian Stans -- Now that's a vision, that's bijnis

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## Dhruv V Singh

S10 said:


> After the initial chaos, India dispatched MARCOS and Black Cats to deal with terrorists. It still took special forces more than 12 hours of fighting to bring the situation under control. Clearly, terrorists in Mumbai were not some two bit rag-tags.


 
It was a massive hostage crisis in Mumbai. If there were no hostages, SFs would have finished those asswipes in couple of hours.


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## President Camacho

Areesh said:


> It is not about proving someone it is about making WOT our war which it isn't right now. With America bombing Pakistani territory I don't think their can be any consensus about this war. The bigger craziness is that we are fighting a war for last 10 years with a huge population confused about that war. This is craziness.


 
Oh Areesh, you are so innocent. This WoT is 100 times more important for Pakistan than it is for the US. I would strongly suggest you to read articles on this modern jihad that give you a holistic idea as to why all this bombing in that particular area is going on. I can't write a lot here, but just a hint - It is directly related to a three way tug of war between Afghans, Baloch and the Army (ISI). And the Army is clearly winning... so far.


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## Ajaxpaul

Omar1984 said:


> This event clearly exposes the fact that Pakistani navy is incompetant and needs the help of a trusted close powerful ally to help protects their mutual strategic intersts with that trusted close powerful ally.
> 
> The Pakistan navy can not even protect its own base, what will happen when India or U.S. invades the coast in Balochistan.
> 
> All Pakistanis should welcome a Chinese naval base after this event.


 
I have never seen such a defeated post from any pakistani member before. Do you think If you give a base to china, all your problems are vanished??


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## Che Guevara

S10 said:


> After the initial chaos, India dispatched MARCOS and Black Cats to deal with terrorists. It still took special forces more than 12 hours of fighting to bring the situation under control. Clearly, terrorists in Mumbai were not some two bit rag-tags.


 
dude their are hundreds of hostage, that was the different operation..


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## huzihaidao12

S10 said:


> After the initial chaos, India dispatched MARCOS and Black Cats to deal with terrorists. It still took special forces more than 12 hours of fighting to bring the situation under control. Clearly, terrorists in Mumbai were not some two bit rag-tags.


 
That is in urban area, all of the search and apprehension of civilians, there are some major restrictions on special forces.


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## Dance

Heavy gunfire exchanged with small explosions for a few minutes, has died down again. #karachiattacks


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## muse

> There is a strong possibility that there was help from ex-army men and what not and that should be exposed and investigated.


Dance

It should be but it won't be -- because if it is then the Fauj will have no choice it will have ot drop this ambiguity business - it will have to dismantle Jihadi organizations, it will have to tell the Saudis to stick it -- can they do all this and still be the Fauj?? If you see our threads on the land forces board we argue that the FAuj needs RECONSTRUCTION - the way it is, it's a liability


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## Markus

Situation worsening in Pakistan day by day.

The new Al Qaida chief (What's his name? - I think it was something like Aqeel or Abdeel or something like that) has already vowed to retaliate for OBL's death.

Is this attack just the beginning?


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## Dhruv V Singh

Dance said:


> Heavy gunfire exchanged with small explosions for a few minutes, has died down again. #karachiattacks


 
Sounds like it was the final assault by the SSG commandos.


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## Ajaxpaul

S10 said:


> After the initial chaos, India dispatched MARCOS and Black Cats to deal with terrorists. It still took special forces more than 12 hours of fighting to bring the situation under control. Clearly, terrorists in Mumbai were not some two bit rag-tags.


 
You can compare mumbai with moscow theatre incident. It was very difficult with hostages involved, collateral damage is almost assured. It was not easy, ask the russians.


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## DarK-LorD

It's Abib or something.It is said he has come into Afghanistan.TOLO news telling that Mullah Omar has been Shot dead.


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## muse

Saif al Adel


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## Dance

Markus said:


> Situation worsening in Pakistan day by day.


 
Its not "worsening" day by day in Pakistan. The situation has been like this for the past 4/5 years. Some months you'll see an upsurge in violence and some months it won't be too bad.

---------- Post added at 01:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:55 AM ----------




Dhruv V Singh said:


> Sounds like it was the final assault by the SSG commandos.


 
Lets hope so


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## Omar1984

ajaxpaul said:


> I have never seen such a defeated post from any pakistani member before. Do you think If you give a base to china, all your problems are vanished??


 
I am just being realistic here. If the Pakistani navy can not protect its base in the former capital of Pakistan and the largest city of Pakistan, then how can Pakistani navy protect Pakistan from invading armies of Indians or Americans in the coast of Balochistan and Sindh?


China is the only country that Pakistan shares all strategic interests in the region with and is the most powerful country in Asia. China has spent billions of dollars in projects and its investments and interests in Pakistan that it wants to protect. Pakistan needs a Chinese naval base in Pakistan more than China needs it. This event have clearly shown that. No other power, except China, can be trusted with Pakistan's strategic interests.


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## sid426

*Mullah Omar killed in Pakistan*

---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------

Taleban leader killed in Pakistan - report - World - NZ Herald News


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## Kompromat




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## IceCold

muse said:


> Pre-positioned -- inside job, with the help and cooperation of low level Pakistani soldiers, airmen and sailors -- Now this cannot be hidden from the world, that the real reason Pakistan does not make progress against terrorism, and Islamist extremism, is because a good portion of it's forces are suffer from the contagion of Islamism - so small acts of sabotage are now common and of course large operations like this are also considered - the blame will go on "foreigners", Indians and Mossad and Martians -- but the world will now know exactly where the rot is and so will the people of Pakistan --


 You Sir are making a bold accusation here, may i ask on what basis are those made on? Yes Pakistan is facing attacks on daily basis, but to say we have made no progress is a bit over stretch even for your standards...don't you agree?


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## Dance

muse said:


> Dance
> 
> It should be but it won't be -- because if it is then the Fauj will have no choice it will have ot drop this ambiguity business - it will have to dismantle Jihadi organizations, it will have to tell the Saudis to stick it -- can they do all this and still be the Fauj?? If you see our threads on the land forces board we argue that the FAuj needs RECONSTRUCTION - the way it is, it's a liability


 
The problem with Pakistan is that it doesnt have a strong or component government. If it did then we wouldn't have issues of the army not being in civillian control and being able to run free. The government is SUPPOSED to keep tabs on the army and control them, but with this retarded government we know that is not the case. Until we can get a goverment who will prevent institutions like the army getting too strong or even taking an interest in Pakistan, situations like this will keep occuring.


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## huzihaidao12

Dance said:


> There is a strong possibility that there was help from ex-army men and what not and that should be exposed and investigated.


 
With or without prior military help, just acts of terrorism, they will not go directly to the military resources, they undermine military resources, what they can get?


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## President Camacho

sid426 said:


> *Mullah Omar killed in Pakistan*
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------
> 
> Taleban leader killed in Pakistan - report - World - NZ Herald News


 
OBL and Mullah Omar both killed in the span of 3 weeks?

Seems like the hard drives collected at OBL's residence had too much information


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## S-2

For those here claiming Pakistan's issues lie with a government and military whom are puppets of America, allow me to disabuse yourselves of that notion.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Your government and military have walked a fine line to keep a pipeline of money and material open during this war. Is it a war in which you'd be involved were that pipeline not open? Yes.

You became involved the day the Afghan taliban government stepped into your lands and set up their temporary abode among your tribal citizens, assuring their infection.

Now you've made war, to be sure. Both your citizens and soldiers have died fighting against Pakistanis. Not once, though, has your government or army done our bidding and made war upon the Afghan taliban upon your lands.

Congratulations...I suppose. Neither your army nor government have proved puppets of America no matter how corrupt or feckless they may seem to you. Trust we find them as you do. Whatever ends they serve those are not ours.

In holding out hope that these men will one day prove useful in Afghanistan you've imported the source of your own demise. In the process, your vaunted and precious sovereignty was rendered null and void long before the first PREDATOR appeared in your skies. Meanwhile men like Nek Mohammad, Baitullah & Hakimullah Mehsud, Mullah Faizullah, Hafiz Gul Bahadur, and Maulvi Nazir and their minions have learned closely the lessons imparted by the afghan taliban.

You've been at war, you are at war and you shall remain at war regardless of America's presence or money in your region.

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## mirage 5000

sid426 said:


> *Mullah Omar killed in Pakistan*
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 AM ----------
> 
> Taleban leader killed in Pakistan - report - World - NZ Herald News


 
let him die i don"t care i am crying for my P3-C planes


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## Dance

They are saying the operation is in the end stages now.

Media saying 3 more terrorists have been killed


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## muse

IceCold said:


> You Sir are making a bold accusation here, may i ask on what basis are those made on? Yes Pakistan is facing attacks on daily basis, but to say we have made no progress is a bit over stretch even for your standards...don't you agree?



I disagree strongly - perhaps you will point to progress, which of course the continued attacks will counter -- may I suggest that your talents in the practice of denial are best exercised elsewhere, perhaps where reality is in conflict with experience -


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## forcetrip

A military base is not guarded by 1000's of troops, there might be 1000's of troops at some but this one does not need that many troops. Bases like these are well guarded to deter spies and other sensitive information from leaking, for example checking credentials and no photography allowed and so forth. The guards if taken by surprise do not stand a chance against a platoon with a coordinated strategy. The loss of two aircraft's is a huge blow. The only positive out of this scenario would be to catch their commander and a few others to cross check the story.

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## HellzHere

Another terrorist leader found and killed in Pakistan


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## ANG

Hi, this image says it all. Pakistan needs to realize the threat to it comes from within, from fundamentalists and corruption, and not externally.

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## sid426

HellzHere said:


> Another terrorist leader found and killed in Pakistan



The question remains the same...who killed Mullah Omar..The Yanks or.....??


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## harpoon

ajaxpaul said:


> You can compare mumbai with moscow theatre incident. It was very difficult with hostages involved, collateral damage is almost assured. It was not easy, ask the russians.


 
Atleast Russians had only one building with all the hostages kept inside the big hall. They had specific knowledge about the terrorists and the weapons they carried, through the video released by the Chechens. Also Russians had one thing that Indians lacked-TIME. Russians prepared for the attack, eventhen they had collateral damage.

In Mumbai notonly we had no time to respond but also the targets were spread across the city in different buildings. Even the no: of terrorists were a mystery until the last moments. Inspite all this shortcomings our security agencies did a great job. Thats why Mumbai attack and its response are being used as a template by many foreign governments to train their security forces.


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## Omar1984

forcetrip said:


> *A military base is not guarded by 1000's of troops,* there might be 1000's of troops at some but this one does not need that many troops. Bases like these are well guarded to deter spies and other sensitive information from leaking, for example checking credentials and n photography allowed and so forth. The guards if taken by surprise do not stand a chance against a platoon with a coordinated strategy. The loss of two aircraft's is a huge blow. The only positive out of this scenario would be to catch their commander and a few others to cross check the story.


 
Well maybe for a country like Switzerland, a miltary base does not need to be guarded by 1000's of troops but we are talking about Pakistan, a country with thousands of internal and external enemies.


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## Dance

HellzHere said:


> Another terrorist leader found and killed in Pakistan


 
NOT confirmed. Only some random afghan news has claimed that no reliable sources have


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## huzihaidao12

forcetrip said:


> A military base is not guarded by 1000's of troops, there might be 1000's of troops at some but this one does not need that many troops. Bases like these are well guarded to deter spies and other sensitive information from leaking, for example checking credentials and no photography allowed and so forth. The guards if taken by surprise do not stand a chance against a platoon with a coordinated strategy. The loss of two aircraft's is a huge blow. The only positive out of this scenario would be to catch their commander and a few others to cross check the story.


 
Even as you say, but the military base is a military base, especially naval base in Karachi, which is close to India, its preparedness far more than the general military bases. And we all know, what is the situation now? they did not alert? That is Impossible, sir.

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## Kompromat




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## Omar1984

ANG said:


> Hi, this image says it all. Pakistan needs to realize the threat to it comes from within, from fundamentalists and corruption, and not externally.


 
Threat comes from both internally and externally. To completely turn a blind eye on external threats would be naive and dangerous for a country like Pakistan.


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## muse

harpoon said:


> In Mumbai notonly we had no time to respond but also the targets were spread across the city in different buildings. Even the no: of terrorists were a mystery until the last moments. Inspite all this shortcomings our security agencies did a great job. Thats why Mumbai attack and its response are being used as a template by many foreign governments to train their security forces.


 
The Indian did a terrible job - their security forces were a disaster, the worst part of it was to treat the attack like a show - the terrorists disrupted an entire city, killed without fear and ultimately succeeded in their mission.

Anyway, lets keep our focus - if Pakistanis are prone to seeking succor in denial, our Indian friends seek it in empty triumphalism - both are unsatisfactory responses to a bitter reality

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## Ajaxpaul

Omar1984 said:


> I am just being realistic here. If the Pakistani navy can not protect its base in the former capital of Pakistan and the largest city of Pakistan, then how can Pakistani navy protect Pakistan from invading armies of Indians or Americans in the coast of Balochistan and Sindh?
> 
> 
> China is the only country that Pakistan shares all strategic interests in the region with and is the most powerful country in Asia. China has spent billions of dollars in projects and its investments and interests in Pakistan that it wants to protect. Pakistan needs a Chinese naval base in Pakistan more than China needs it. This event have clearly shown that. No other power, except China, can be trusted with Pakistan's strategic interests.


 
Have you seen the plight of Japan after they gave land to their allies. Japan cannot do anything without US approval. Do you want pakistan to be like that. You might argue that china will never do things like that. After they have set up a base in pakistan,the game will be played between China, India, US and Russia. Pakistan will suffer as china will not be able to withdraw to protect its strategic interests.

This is the reason why India did not allow even Russia to have a base here in our land.

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## Abu Basit

*The Nation: A CIA-RAW-Mossad Pseudo-Taliban Countergang*

*One way to provide the provocation needed to justify a US-Indian attack on Pakistan would be through an increase in terrorist actions attributable to the so-called Taliban.* According to the mainstream Pakistani media, the CIA, the Israeli Mossad, and the Indian RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) have created their own version of the Taliban in the form of a terrorist countergang which they control and direct.

* According to one account, Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives have infiltrated the Taliban and Al-Qaeda networks, and have created their own Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) force in order to destabilize Pakistan*. The former Punjab Regional Commander of the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI), retired Brigadier General Aslam Ghuman, commented: During my visit to the US, I learned that the Israeli spy agency Mossad, in connivance with Indian agency RAW, under the direct supervision of CIA, planned to destabilize Pakistan at any cost.12 Was this countergang responsible for last weeks double bombing in Waziristan, which killed 80 paramilitary police?


According to the same account, Russian intelligence disclosed that CIA contractor Raymond Davis and his network had provided Al-Qaeda operatives with chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, so that US installations may be targeted and Pakistan be blamed. Davis, a JSOC veteran himself, was arrested for the murder of two ISI agents, but then released by the Pakistani government after a suspicious hue and cry by the State Department.

US, Pakistan Near Open War; Chinese Ultimatum Warns Washington Against Attack « TARPLEY.net

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## muse

the comedy relief - just in time

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## Nothing

Abu Basit said:


> *The Nation: A CIA-RAW-Mossad Pseudo-Taliban Countergang*
> 
> *One way to provide the provocation needed to justify a US-Indian attack on Pakistan would be through an increase in terrorist actions attributable to the so-called Taliban.* According to the mainstream Pakistani media, the CIA, the Israeli Mossad, and the Indian RAW (Research and Analysis Wing) have created their own version of the Taliban in the form of a terrorist countergang which they control and direct.
> 
> * According to one account, Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) operatives have infiltrated the Taliban and Al-Qaeda networks, and have created their own Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) force in order to destabilize Pakistan*. The former Punjab Regional Commander of the Pakistani Inter-Service Intelligence (ISI), retired Brigadier General Aslam Ghuman, commented: During my visit to the US, I learned that the Israeli spy agency Mossad, in connivance with Indian agency RAW, under the direct supervision of CIA, planned to destabilize Pakistan at any cost.12 Was this countergang responsible for last weeks double bombing in Waziristan, which killed 80 paramilitary police?
> 
> 
> According to the same account, Russian intelligence disclosed that CIA contractor Raymond Davis and his network had provided Al-Qaeda operatives with chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, so that US installations may be targeted and Pakistan be blamed. Davis, a JSOC veteran himself, was arrested for the murder of two ISI agents, but then released by the Pakistani government after a suspicious hue and cry by the State Department.
> 
> US, Pakistan Near Open War; Chinese Ultimatum Warns Washington Against Attack « TARPLEY.net


 
Go post this in jokes section ... here people are doing some serious discussion...


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## huzihaidao12

ajaxpaul said:


> Have you seen the plight of Japan after they gave land to their allies. Japan cannot do anything without US approval. Do you want pakistan to be like that. You might argue that china will never do things like that. After they have set up a base in pakistan,the game will be played between China, India, US and Russia. Pakistan will suffer as china will not be able to withdraw to protect its strategic interests.
> 
> This is the reason why India did not allow even Russia to have a base here in our land.


 
China is only by the management authority, but also time restrictions. and the relationship between China and Pakistan is based on the basis of mutual respect and mutual interests, China is not the United States.

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## Ajaxpaul

harpoon said:


> Atleast Russians had only one building with all the hostages kept inside the big hall. They had specific knowledge about the terrorists and the weapons they carried, through the video released by the Chechens. Also Russians had one thing that Indians lacked-TIME. Russians prepared for the attack, eventhen they had collateral damage.
> 
> In Mumbai notonly we had no time to respond but also the targets were spread across the city in different buildings. Even the no: of terrorists were a mystery until the last moments. Inspite all this shortcomings our security agencies did a great job. Thats why Mumbai attack and its response are being used as a template by many foreign governments to train their security forces.


 
Doesn't it sound pathetic ?---no time, not prepared, do not have plans of building, have to take approval.....why should ordinary people pay with their blood? dont they have right to live ?


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## kingkobra

muse said:


> The Indian did a terrible job - their security forces were a disaster, the worst part of it was to treat the attack like a show - the terrorists disrupted an entire city, killed without fear and ultimately succeeded in their mission.
> 
> Anyway, lets keep our focus - if Pakistanis are prone to seeking succor in denial, our Indian friends seek it in empty triumphalism - both are unsatisfactory responses to a bitter reality


 
it happned because of our police force was not prepared for such attacks...weapons they use were almost useless...they never had training to deal with such attacks...now after those attacks Home ministry of Maharashtra has taken serious measures to modernize and train its forces..

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## Stealth

everyone knows that India Isreal and American (America controlled by pro Anti Pakistani). They are destablizing Pakistan since last 10 years. Not only them our Military generals and Govts helping these terrorist organization who are working on the name of culture (so called consulates) near Pak Afghan Border.

Right now first step should be PAF should take massive ground attack inside afghanistan and put blame on to the afghanistan that.. All these terrorist organizations funded from Afghanistan into Pakistan ... on each and every attack PAF should take strike inside afghanistan simple! and put pressure on Afghanistan that all these terrorist organizations like Mossad RAW CIA are working under US umbrella in Afghanistan because of that Pakistan is suffering!...

Now play the game properly!

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## President Camacho

harpoon said:


> Thats why Mumbai attack and its response are being used as a template by many foreign governments to train their security forces.


 
The template of only the incident, and not the pathetic and slow counter-strategy displayed by the Indian security forces. 


10 men come, and manage to kill 176... they did a century man! Indians love to say how they have continuously been attacked by terrorists... then where was the preparedness? Why do you say it was a surprise attack? Utter failure by our intel agancies, and subsequently by our security forces, and then by our media, and finally by our ministers who didn't mind becoming a tour guide at the hotel for movie producers.

Whenever you think Indians managed it well, first thing to come to your mind should be the number - 176 !!!

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## huzihaidao12

This is a special operations than terrorism. My personal point of view.

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## Stealth

Nothing said:


> Go post this in jokes section ... here people are doing some serious discussion...


 
Dont need put news into joke section we already have US affair and Indian Military section (two section of full jokes) enough for single forum!

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## muse

> now after those attacks Home ministry of Maharashtra has taken serious measures to modernize and train its forces.



Well, in this case we have SSGN I should imagine -- but note that non-soldiers have managed to keep these Pakistani troops on the back foot -- and lest see if there will be any kind of reform in Pakistan -- my take on it is that there will not be - After all, we are perfect, why we need criticism and reform and retraining?


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## jha

> According to the same account, Russian intelligence disclosed that CIA contractor Raymond Davis and his network had provided Al-Qaeda operatives with chemical, nuclear and biological weapons, so that US installations may be targeted and Pakistan be blamed.



So, Now this Paper has comments from Russian Intelligence also...Why not Irani intelligence or, even better Cuban Intelligence ..?

Conspiracy theories have started flying.. Pretty soon RAW will be credited with this along with Mossad and CIA..


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## ambivalence

Webster Tarpley is a world renowned conspiracy theorist. he likes to make wild assumptions without backing them up with facts. The notion that the US is gearing up for a war against Pakistan is utter nonsense. The US cannot afford another war, the hawks in the pentagon just like to create an illusion of probable war to instill fear in the opposing party to do their bidding.


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## Markus

huzihaidao12 said:


> This is a special operations than terrorism. My personal point of view.


 
You mean the attackers are trained by special ops or the ppl who are attacking are special ops themselves ???


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## Saifullah Sani

four terrorist are caught alive geo news


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## Ajaxpaul

huzihaidao12 said:


> *China is only by the management authority, but also time restrictions.* and the relationship between China and Pakistan is based on the basis of mutual respect and mutual interests, China is not the United States.



I did not get the bold part. 

We all know China is not the US. when US occupied japan, they told the same story of mutual respect and mutual interests.


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## Black Widow

Stealth said:


> everyone knows that India Isreal and American (America controlled by pro Anti Pakistani). They are destablizing Pakistan since last 10 years. Not only them our Military generals and Govts helping these terrorist organization who are working on the name of culture (so called consulates) near Pak Afghan Border.
> 
> Right now first step should be PAF should take massive ground attack inside afghanistan and put blame on to the afghanistan that.. All these terrorist organizations funded from Afghanistan into Pakistan ... on each and every attack PAF should take strike inside afghanistan simple! and put pressure on Afghanistan that all these terrorist organizations like Mossad RAW CIA are working under US umbrella in Afghanistan because of that Pakistan is suffering!...
> 
> Now play the game properly!


 

hmmm... don't you derailing the thread???


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## forcetrip

Omar1984 said:


> Well maybe for a country like Switzerland, a miltary base does not need to be guarded by 1000's of troops but we are talking about Pakistan, a country with thousands of internal and external enemies.



Well what can I say to that, we cannot live peacefully with other people like Switzerland so we should double our budget deficit I guess.


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## RescueRanger

Taliban Spokesperson Qari Yousaf reported on Afghan Islamic Press channel as saying Mullah Omar is not dead, alive and well. - more on this as it comes.

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## Stealth

Black Widow said:


> hmmm... don't you derailing the thread???


 
dont you guys derailling this whole forum ?


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## ramu

Stealth said:


> everyone knows that India Isreal and American (America controlled by pro Anti Pakistani). They are destablizing Pakistan since last 10 years. Not only them our Military generals and Govts helping these terrorist organization who are working on the name of culture (so called consulates) near Pak Afghan Border.
> 
> Right now first step should be PAF should take massive ground attack inside afghanistan and put blame on to the afghanistan that.. All these terrorist organizations funded from Afghanistan into Pakistan ... on each and every attack PAF should take strike inside afghanistan simple! and put pressure on Afghanistan that all these terrorist organizations like Mossad RAW CIA are working under US umbrella in Afghanistan because of that Pakistan is suffering!...
> 
> Now play the game properly!


 
I will tell you what will happen if some nut takes your advice seriously.

Any attack on Afghanistan will be repulsed by state of the art aircrafts parked in Afghanistan that belong to USA. Naval operations will begin and a few fighters will climb from a warship somewhere in the Arabian sea. 

Pakistan modernisation of radars and aircrafts will turn to naught as the airbases will be bombarded time and time till Pakistan does not apologise unconditionally for their act. Make no mistake.

This is an internal security problem and resolve by fixing the issue within. People inside Pakistan have created a Frankenstein and it is now going ballistic and out of control.


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## huzihaidao12

ajaxpaul said:


> I did not get the bold part.
> 
> We all know China is not the US. when US occupied japan, they told the same story of mutual respect and mutual interests.


 
Chinese occupation to Pakistan? China and Pakistan had a war? We have traditional friendly relations over the past several decades.


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## RescueRanger

2 PC-3 Orion destroyed, according to initial reports the two damaged are "un salvageable".


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## barryusa

Patanjali said:


> The template of only the incident, and not the pathetic and slow counter-strategy displayed by the Indian security forces.
> 
> 
> 10 men come, and manage to kill 176... they did a century man! Indians love to say how they have continuously been attacked by terrorists... then where was the preparedness? Why do you say it was a surprise attack? Utter failure by our intel agancies, and subsequently by our security forces, and then by our media, and finally by our ministers who didn't mind becoming a tour guide at the hotel for movie producers.
> 
> Whenever you think Indians managed it well, first thing to come to your mind should be the number - 176 !!!




The 'non-state' elements from Pakistan attacked unarmed civilians (including women and children) -- an offense against humanity.

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## Omar1984

ajaxpaul said:


> Have you seen the plight of Japan after they gave land to their allies. Japan cannot do anything without US approval. Do you want pakistan to be like that. You might argue that china will never do things like that. After they have set up a base in pakistan,the game will be played between China, India, US and Russia. Pakistan will suffer as china will not be able to withdraw to protect its strategic interests.
> 
> This is the reason why India did not allow even Russia to have a base here in our land.



I rarely say anything good about India, but India has done a good job protecting its strategic interests. The same can not be said about Pakistan.

I have lost all hope for Pakistani military after this event. I always thought that the Pakistani military was strong, but its not and we need help. The only country that can be trusted is China to help the Pakistani military.

We have the same interests as China in the region, so even if China dictates to Pakistan then it'll benefit Pakistan in the long run. Russia and China have no conficts. Maybe U.S./India and China do, but honestly what strategic interests does Pakistan share with the U.S. and India. Pakistan would much rather have China as the winner. China would never want the breakup and turmoil of Pakistan because Pakistan would serve as an energy corridor for China, and all the oil from Middle East would travel from Gwadar to China (so China needs a stable strong Pakistan). The breakup and turmoil of Pakistan would suit both the U.S. and India because it would stop China from getting the oil from the Middle East through Gwadar into China.

Pakistani navy needs to be very strong considering the very important geo-strategic location Pakistan is located in. The Pakistani navy doesn't stand a chance against any navy if it cant even defeat 15 terrorists. The Chinese naval base in Balochistan and Sindh would be more beneficial to Pakistan than China.


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## Markus

RescueRanger said:


> 2 PC-3 Orion destroyed, according to initial reports the two damaged are "un salvageable".


 
Hmmm.... this attack has proved very costly for Pakistan.


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## huzihaidao12

RescueRanger said:


> Taliban Spokesperson Qari Yousaf reported on Afghan Islamic Press channel as saying Mullah Omar is not dead, alive and well. - more on this as it comes.


 
They are tools, tools will be used by the owner, more important is who is their master?


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## muse

> This is a special operations than terrorism. My personal point of view.



You know that I respect your thinking - but if this is a special operations case, what was Mumbai -- in fact there is one particular organization that comes to mind - this organization has had in the past, very close ties to a intelligence service in Pakistan, - the service says that things have changed and they may have, but training has become more sophisticated -- this is not new, think back to last year when a group attacked the GHQ of the Pakistan army - and of course the group in question has also staged spectacular attacks in captive kashmir against Indian army headquarters -- infiltration and then holding the base itself hostage with maximum enemy killed, is their specialty.

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## Dance

Militants have been killed but cannot confirm how many killed/arrested. Resistance from militants has decreased. Rangers official says operation is nearing completion and that's is "personal opinion" says 30-45 minutes more


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## Rao Sahab

terrorost are entered from seuvrage sides


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## President Camacho

Some guy on Dawn is saying the Navy people had become so lax, they had even turned one building into a marriage hall. 

He wants the Navy Chief to resign.


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## Stealth

ramu said:


> I will tell you what will happen if some nut takes your advice seriously.
> 
> Any attack on Afghanistan will be repulsed by state of the aircrafts parked in Afghanistan that belong to USA. Naval operations will begin and a few fighters will climb from a warship somewhere in the Arabian sea.
> 
> Pakistan modernisation of radars and aircrafts will turn to naught as the airbases will be bombarded time and time till Pakistan does not apologise unconditionally for their act. Make no mistake.
> 
> This is an internal security problem and resolve by fixing the issue within. People inside Pakistan have created a Frankenstein and it is now going ballistic and out of control.


 

PAF already take action (bombing) yestrday INSIDE Afghanistan.


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## kingkobra

muse said:


> Well, in this case we have SSGN I should imagine -- but note that non-soldiers have managed to keep these Pakistani troops on the back foot -- and lest see if there will be any kind of reform in Pakistan -- my take on it is that there will not be - After all, we are perfect, why we need criticism and reform and retraining?


 
one should not blame their soldiers for this...terrorists always have advantage...they are ready to blow themselves which will harm hostages..this tells a lot about why such operations take a long time...


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## huzihaidao12

muse said:


> You know that I respect your thinking - but if this is a special operations case, what was Mumbai -- in fact there is one particular organization that comes to mind - this organization has had in the past, very close ties to a intelligence service in Pakistan, - the service says that things have changed and they may have, but training has become more sophisticated -- this is not new, think back to last year when a group attacked the GHQ of the Pakistan army - and of course the group in question has also staged spectacular attacks in captive kashmir against Indian army headquarters -- infiltration and then holding the base itself hostage with maximum enemy killed, is their specialty.


 
muse, some things are not so simple, Mumbai is recognized as a terrorist action, but it has a character as all terrorist actions, his actions against civilians. It seems very different this time.

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## Saifullah Sani

what about Indian blue print of surgical strike


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## Markus

Saifullah Sani said:


> what about Indian blue print of surgical strike


 
Leave India out of this. They are no way involved in whats happening at your naval base.


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## Stealth

This is technically not possible. Terrorist are not capable to do such event. It's pure Special operation style squad. It's pure Inside job (101% authentic information providers) who help them. Providing massive Ammo.. military hardware, Guns and gadgets, Latest Tech etc. It's pure operation. The performance of Pakistan agencies are big big Question Mark. All Chief's of ARMY, AIRFORCE, NAVY and ISI should resign and directly send to the court. All forces are failed to stop such attacks. 

We immediately RE-CONSIDER WOT policy.


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## jha

Saifullah Sani said:


> what about Indian blue print of surgical strike


 
I was just waiting for this...
What was the outcome of this Surgical strike ..? 2 P-3c destroyed..?


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## All-Green

Zarvan said:


> sir they will not attack you than whole world knows and than you can take help of MULLAH OMAR in exposing this TTP and this will help you a lot a lot and second think I am a male not madam


 


Areesh said:


> You know Dance. After Pakistan ends cooperation with USA on WOT TTP won't have any reason for these bombings. Even today when they claimed responsibility of these attacks they said we conducted these attacks because of Pakistan's slavery to USA. They say we are fighting against America and it's "agents". They consider us the agents. They consider our military to be mercenaries. We have to remove this label from our forehead. Even after that if they continue their activities their would be more consensus among the Pakistanis against them.


 


Zarvan said:


> First you end the reason for them to attack us than when America will leave you can take help of Mullah Omar because Mullah Omar is against attacks in Pakistan and they use his name wrongly in attacking Pakistan but when Mullah Omar will expose him they will lose all the support which they have




TTP can give any reason for their attacks but once they attack Pakistanis via terrorism, they are terrorists and should be dealt accordingly.
Honestly think deep and ponder over the likes of TTP.
Can they ever give you respite?
Will they ever lay down their arms?
They are young men who are paid in lots of cash thanks to their outlaw lifestyle, will they ever welcome the rule of law?

I say let us part ways with USA but not to please TTP...only because we do not see eye to eye with USA.
If you want to be sovereign then declare that no more US Aid and dictation.
However if you are doing this just to please the rabid dog called TTP, then you are so wrong on so many levels.
We should understand that TTP is not here to fight USA.
TTP is mostly sitting within the boundaries of Pakistan and murdering Pakistanis at leisure because we are such bad Muslims when compared to the narcotic smuggling, kidnapping, butchering, suicide bombing and gang raping TTP.

Today it is our support of USA which irks the noble TTP and you suggest that we stop being allies with USA to counter TTP which shall lay down arms when we grow balls and say no to USA.
Please think about it.
What prompted TTP to capture, bomb, maim, kill and rape their way through Swat?
It was their Islam which enabled them to do it and not USA.
They cried Shariat and Islam and fools that we are, we thought ... it is about Shariat and what the locals want...certainly all the locals were happy?
When media interviewed them, they said...Shariat rocks!
Shariat is so good that we are all feeling safe and secure.
Hell, it is so good that in the biggest ladies market in Swat...the entrance of women was prohibited and the shopkeepers were singing praises of Talibaniat!
We were such morons that we did not ask ourselves, why the hell would a shopkeeper see his business drown in the acid pool of some twisted terrorist Shariat and yet sing praises of the system and the enforcers.
Now was the Swat episode for USA... i do not think so!
It was their cry for Islam...Not our Islam but their Islam which to them is the true Islam...since it makes wonderful business sense! 
for them, that is.
This here is the problem, you cannot half accept the scums called TTP.
When we make the mistake of giving them any legitimacy in their Islamic demands...it bites us hard.
They are 100% terrorists and need to be killed on sight and when captured need to be tried in terrorist courts.
Those clerics who support them need to be tried in courts as well.

The great hero Sufi Muhammad tried to negotiate between us and them and to what avail?
Despite getting every damn thing they wanted...they still did not lay down arms and said we want more!
This is the problem, they are all rascals.
Sufi Muhammad took thousands of young boys to face USA in Afghanistan but returned with only his relatives and his own worthless hide.
All the innocent boys killed because they thought they were doing Jihad while all they were doing was adding some new experience to the resume of an Islamist cleric who wanted to gain more power and legitimacy...at the cost of other lives and certainly not his own!!!
What about the cleric in Lal masjid...got so many people killed and yet walks proudly today raising slogans in favor of TTP ...this man who donned a burqa and ran while trapping his own brother, students and the army men to fight and kill each other...this scum is a revered Islamic cleric who has still quite a following.
Our weakness in tolerating such people is clogging our windpipe.

Mullah Omar is not in charge of TTP and i think has lost any influence he had in controlling any group.
TTP has usurped his authority and has shown even other former allies of the "Good Taliban" that it is more beneficial and makes more business sense to rule over the poor people of Pakistan and collect "Zakat Money" from them...rather than engage the superpower of the world in a fight which is nothing short of a meat grinder.
TTP is behind kidnappings for ransom and the great Islamic thing is that they ask the prisoner to pray and read the Holy Quran while he is in their illegal captivity...to collect money which they shall ofcourse use for Jihad and furthering the most noble goal of enforcing the Shariat on the lucky people of Pakistan, who have no say in the matter i guess.

Mullah Omar's hold over the TTP is non existent.
The Taliban loyal to Omar warned TTP over Col Imam's capture so what does TTP do?
Hakimullah Mehsud calmly shows his face to the camera in the video of Col Imam's cold blooded butchery!!!
This is the respect TTP have for the Mullah Omar...and despite this absolutely extreme insult to Omar....what have any of the other Taliban or Islamic groups done to TTP?
Nothing at all!

All they are after is power over people and money...to think for even one moment that these people can be won over is folly.
To think that they have anything to do with locals and are representing their sentiments is criminal.
To this day many in Swat are surprised that the rest of Pakistan ignored their plight for so long...the reason this happened was not USA.
It was because the terrorists are clever enough to use the bogey of Islam...and we the Pakistanis are dumb enough to buy it again and again.

Whether you are of any sect and whether you want a true Islamic system or democracy or communism or whatever other system...
*Know one thing for a fact.
The TTP will never ever allow any system or law other than their own, nor accept it as a just system.*

A) If we implement anything other than an Islamic system...it shall be an Un-Islamic system and they shall declare Jihad against it.

B) If on the other hand we do implement an Islamic system based on Islamic law and interpretation...that shall be called a Fitna and conspiracy against the true Islam which only the TTP is qualified to be the judge of.

Either way, TTP will not compromise on their glorious and most noble principles...be sure of that my friends!

Their system is not Islamic (but quite the opposite) but they call it Islamic and the many clerics would rather support their Islam rather than ours...this can be gauged by the way the clerics supported Swat occupancy!
In Swat, you were beaten for keeping a clean shave or a short beard.
You were beaten for having a radio in your car.
You were killed for arguing with Taliban over religious interpretation.
Many Imam's of Mosque were killed over trivial arguments on religion.
A school teacher and his father were killed because he did not bare his ankles and argued that it was as per his interpretation of Islam and Taliban be damned...BTW this was a respected former Mujahid and yet he was killed like an animal.
Any logical mind can see that it was never about Shariat or Islam...it was about gaining power by terrorizing the locals into becoming as submissive as sheep...to gain absolute power over others and rule.

If some fool today thinks that if today we implement truly Islamic system, the TTP shall accept it...he cannot be more wrong.
While the TTP is anti west in its propaganda, an Islamic system based on true values of Islam is not less of a poison for them since it is not the Islam but the illegal and absolute powers they enjoy that is their goal.
*Under any system there is no tolerance for outlaws...therefore rest assured TTP will not submit to even the most ideal system (Islamic or not) because they are certainly not going to welcome any law...other than their own ofcourse.
*
For any Pakistani wishing his country a most transparent and fair system...TTP is enemy number one.
Think deep and please analyze all that i have said.
Say bye bye to USA if they do not respect your sovereignty but never ever associate the TTP with anything other than terrorism and do not delude yourselves that they can be talked to.
Clean up these psychos and let us make Pakistan tolerant, fair, stable and peaceful as envisioned by our forefathers...
*No matter what system/future you or any Pakistani desires out of good intentions for this country...there is no place for TTP in it and it shall jeopardize all efforts to implement any system unless ofcourse it is eliminated first.*

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## Emran

1-PLAN HI YEHI HAI K POORI DUNIYA KO YEH DEKHAYA JAYE K PAKISTAN K HAR CITY N HAR JAGA AL-QAIDA TALIBAN HAIN

2-IS TARHAA AMERICA KO JUSTIFICATION MIL JAYE GI K WOH PAKISTAN MA APNA BLOODY OPERATION KAR SAKAY

3- PAKISTAN K AWAM MA MAYOOSI PHELA DI JAYE..AUR UNKO YEH YAQEEN DILA DIYA JAYE K SIRF AMERICA HI UNKY ENEMEIES KHATAM KAR SAKTA HAI

4-ANOTHER PLAN IS K PAKISTAN ARMED FORCES PE BAAR BAAR HAMLA KAR K UNKO KAMZOR KARNAY KI NAKAAM KOSHISH KI JAYE

5- AWAM K DILO N DEMAGH MA YEH BAAT BETHA DI JAYE K APP KI ARMED FORCES APP KI HIFAZAT NAHI KAR SAKTI

6-AWAM KO ARMED FORCES SE NAFRAT KARNAY PER MAJBOOR KIYA JAYE

7- SUB SE IMPORTANT YEH K UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS SEARCHING A WAY TO DECLARE K PAKISTAN APNAY ATOMIC TANSEEBAT KI HIFAZAT NAHI KARSAKTA...INDIRECTLY HAMARY ATOMIC ASSETS PER QABA KARNA AUR UNHY DESTROY KARNA IS THE AIM OF CIA, AND OTHER ENEMIES OF PAKISTAN.....


INSHALLAH PAKISTAN WILL SURVIVE AND STAY ON THE WORLD MAP AS STRONG AND PROSPEROUS MUSLIM COUNTRY TILL THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT AMEEN

DEATH TO CIA, AND OTHER ENEMIES OF PAKISTAN


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## huzihaidao12

muse, other comments I agree with you, Pakistan need to determine cut off something, but like I said, do not cover all the things by a piece of cloth, the cloth name is terrorism. Cloth below what? This Is the key, there may be other things.

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## Zarvan

Operation all-most over Forces just clearing the area hope not much equipment is damaged other than two orion planes


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## Black Widow

Saifullah Sani said:


> what about Indian blue print of surgical strike


 


Please tell us...


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## Dance

12 navy personnel and one rangers soldier were shaheed


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## muse

huzihaidao12 said:


> muse, some things are not so simple, Mumbai is recognized as a terrorist action, but it has a character as all terrorist actions, his actions against civilians. It seems very different this time.


 

I do aghree that the character of this operation is very different but in one sense it's very similar -- it's the strategic quality of the thinking behind it -- in Mumbai, the opportunity for a peaceful normal relations was subverted -- in this case, the point is not the aircraft destroyed, though, this attack has effective destroyed the Navy's recon and anti-sub capability - but really what it has highlighted is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are very very unsafe - you know that Pakistani nuclear weapons are dispersed in various military facilities - if a major facility can be so effectively attacked, well this time the world dodged a bullet , does the world really want to take another chance?

Now coming to the training, yes, I very much agree about the quality of the training and I point you to the training offered by the so called 333 brigade or Laskar e Zil , the commander of this unit was associated with that other organization I highlighted in the previous post.

But I remain open to persuasive arguments.

I will also make the point that this operation required a great deal of inside help, with multiple igress and prepositioning of weapons

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## Ajaxpaul

Omar1984 said:


> I rarely say anything good about India, but India has done a good job protecting its strategic interests. The same can not be said about Pakistan.
> 
> I have lost all hope for Pakistani military after this event. I always thought that the Pakistani military was strong, but its not and we need help. The only country that can be trusted is China to help the Pakistani military.
> 
> We have the same interests as China in the region, so even if China dictates to Pakistan then it'll benefit Pakistan in the long run. Russia and China have no conficts. Maybe U.S./India and China do, but honestly what strategic interests does Pakistan share with the U.S. and India. Pakistan would much rather have China as the winner. China would never want the breakup and turmoil of Pakistan because Pakistan would serve as an energy corridor for China, and all the oil from Middle East would travel from Gwadar to China (so China needs a stable strong Pakistan). The breakup and turmoil of Pakistan would suit both the U.S. and India because it would stop China from getting the oil from the Middle East through Gwadar into China.
> 
> Pakistani navy needs to be very strong considering the very important geo-strategic location Pakistan is located in. The Pakistani navy doesn't stand a chance against any navy if it cant even defeat 15 terrorists. The Chinese naval base in Balochistan and Sindh would be more beneficial to Pakistan than China.


 
Common bro, now you are talking with a master slave mentality. Why do you always think India wants to break up pakistan. In your opinion out of 1.21 billion people how many think about breaking pakistan?? We may have fought 4 wars, but thats nothing compared to what other countries have done. 

All we keep requesting to pak is to stop supporting terrorism...is that a bad thing to do ?. It can benefit all surrounding regions . 

We are not in a position to strike pakistan and even our PM clarified. We just want to expand our income and for that we need peace from our western side.

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## DarK-LorD

Reminds me of the attack on Bandaranaike Airport attack in Sri Lanka.


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## Rao Sahab

a search operation is on in base


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## Zarvan

All-Green said:


> TTP can give any reason for their attacks but once they attack Pakistanis via terrorism, they are terrorists and should be dealt accordingly.
> Honestly think deep and ponder over the likes of TTP.
> Can they ever give you respite?
> Will they ever lay down their arms?
> They are young men who are paid in lots of cash thanks to their outlaw lifestyle, will they ever welcome the rule of law?
> 
> I say let us part ways with USA but not to please TTP...only because we do not see eye to eye with USA.
> If you want to be sovereign then declare that no more US Aid and dictation.
> However if you are doing this just to please the rabid dog called TTP, then you are so wrong on so many levels.
> We should understand that TTP is not here to fight USA.
> TTP is mostly sitting within the boundaries of Pakistan and murdering Pakistanis at leisure because we are such bad Muslims when compared to the narcotic smuggling, kidnapping, butchering, suicide bombing and gang raping TTP.
> 
> Today it is our support of USA which irks the noble TTP and you suggest that we stop being allies with USA to counter TTP which shall lay down arms when we grow balls and say no to USA.
> Please think about it.
> What prompted TTP to capture, bomb, maim, kill and rape their way through Swat?
> It was their Islam which enabled them to do it and not USA.
> They cried Shariat and Islam and fools that we are, we thought ... it is about Shariat and what the locals want...certainly all the locals were happy?
> When media interviewed them, they said...Shariat rocks!
> Shariat is so good that we are all feeling safe and secure.
> Hell, it is so good that in the biggest ladies market in Swat...the entrance of women was prohibited and the shopkeepers were singing praises of Talibaniat!
> We were such morons that we did not ask ourselves, why the hell would a shopkeeper see his business drown in the acid pool of some twisted terrorist Shariat and yet sing praises of the system and the enforcers.
> Now was the Swat episode for USA... i do not think so!
> It was their cry for Islam...Not our Islam but their Islam which to them is the true Islam...since it makes wonderful business sense!
> for them, that is.
> This here is the problem, you cannot half accept the scums called TTP.
> When we make the mistake of giving them any legitimacy in their Islamic demands...it bites us hard.
> They are 100% terrorists and need to be killed on sight and when captured need to be tried in terrorist courts.
> Those clerics who support them need to be tried in courts as well.
> 
> The great hero Sufi Muhammad tried to negotiate between us and them and to what avail?
> Despite getting every damn thing they wanted...they still did not lay down arms and said we want more!
> This is the problem, they are all rascals.
> Sufi Muhammad took thousands of young boys to face USA in Afghanistan but returned with only his relatives and his own worthless hide.
> All the innocent boys killed because they thought they were doing Jihad while all they were doing was adding some new experience to the resume of an Islamist cleric who wanted to gain more power and legitimacy...at the cost of other lives and certainly not his own!!!
> What about the cleric in Lal masjid...got so many people killed and yet walks proudly today raising slogans in favor of TTP ...this man who donned a burqa and ran while trapping his own brother, students and the army men to fight and kill each other...this scum is a revered Islamic cleric who has still quite a following.
> Our weakness in tolerating such people is clogging our windpipe.
> 
> Mullah Omar is not in charge of TTP and i think has lost any influence he had in controlling any group.
> TTP has usurped his authority and has shown even other former allies of the "Good Taliban" that it is more beneficial and makes more business sense to rule over the poor people of Pakistan and collect "Zakat Money" from them...rather than engage the superpower of the world in a fight which is nothing short of a meat grinder.
> TTP is behind kidnappings for ransom and the great Islamic thing is that they ask the prisoner to pray and read the Holy Quran while he is in their illegal captivity...to collect money which they shall ofcourse use for Jihad and furthering the most noble goal of enforcing the Shariat on the lucky people of Pakistan, who have no say in the matter i guess.
> 
> Mullah Omar's hold over the TTP is non existent.
> The Taliban loyal to Omar warned TTP over Col Imam's capture so what does TTP do?
> Hakimullah Mehsud calmly shows his face to the camera in the video of Col Imam's cold blooded butchery!!!
> This is the respect TTP have for the Mullah Omar...and despite this absolutely extreme insult to Omar....what have any of the other Taliban or Islamic groups done to TTP?
> Nothing at all!
> 
> All they are after is power over people and money...to think for even one moment that these people can be won over is folly.
> To think that they have anything to do with locals and are representing their sentiments is criminal.
> To this day many in Swat are surprised that the rest of Pakistan ignored their plight for so long...the reason this happened was not USA.
> It was because the terrorists are clever enough to use the bogey of Islam...and we the Pakistanis are dumb enough to buy it again and again.
> 
> Whether you are of any sect and whether you want a true Islamic system or democracy or communism or whatever other system...
> *Know one thing for a fact.
> The TTP will never ever allow any other system nor accept it.*
> 
> A) If we implement anything other than an Islamic system...it shall be an Un-Islamic system and they shall declare Jihad against it.
> 
> B) If on the other hand we do implement an Islamic system based on Islamic law and interpretation...that shall be called a Fitna and conspiracy against the true Islam which only the TTP is qualified to be the judge of.
> 
> Either way, TTP will not compromise on their glorious and most noble principles...be sure of that my friends!
> 
> Their system is not Islamic (but quite the opposite) but they call it Islamic and the many clerics would rather support their Islam rather than ours...this can be gauged by the way the clerics supported Swat occupancy!
> In Swat, you were beaten for keeping a clean shave or a short beard.
> You were beaten for having a radio in your car.
> You were killed for arguing with Taliban over religious interpretation.
> Many Imam's of Mosque were killed over trivial arguments on religion.
> A school teacher and his father were killed because he did not bare his ankles and argued that it was as per his interpretation of Islam and Taliban be damned...BTW this was a respected former Mujahid and yet he was killed like an animal.
> Any logical mind can see that it was never about Shariat or Islam...it was about gaining power by terrorizing the locals into becoming as submissive as sheep...to gain absolute power over others and rule.
> 
> If some fool today thinks that if today we implement truly Islamic system, the TTP shall accept it...he cannot be more wrong.
> While the TTP is anti west in its propaganda, an Islamic system based on true values of Islam is not less of a poison for them since it is not the Islam but the illegal and absolute powers they enjoy that is their goal.
> Under *any system* there is no tolerance for outlaws...therefore rest assured TTP will not submit to even the most ideal system (Islamic or not) because they are certainly not going to welcome any law...other than their own ofcourse.
> 
> For any Pakistani wishing his country a most transparent and fair system...TTP is enemy number one.
> Think deep and please analyze all that i have said.
> Say bye bye to USA if they do not respect your sovereignty but never ever associate the TTP with anything other than terrorism and do not delude yourselves that they can be talked to.
> Clean up these psychos and let us make Pakistan tolerant, fair, stable and peaceful as envisioned by our forefathers...
> No matter what system/future you or any Pakistani desires out of good intentions for this country...there is no place for TTP in it and it shall jeopardize all efforts to implement any system unless ofcourse it is eliminated first.


 
Man when Mullah Omar will be with you than nobody in TTP will listen to what Hakeemullah has to say because only they will listen to MULLAH OMAR so TTP will have no reason left other wise you will keep getting hit


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## Pioneerfirst

Zarvan said:


> Operation all-most over Forces just clearing the area hope not much equipment is damaged other than two orion planes


2 PC3 orions is a huge loss they worth 800 million dollar and US will not deliver such equipment again to Pakistan.


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## IceCold

muse said:


> I disagree strongly - perhaps you will point to progress, which of course the continued attacks will counter -- may I suggest that your talents in the practice of denial are best exercised elsewhere, perhaps where reality is in conflict with experience -


 
Perhaps sir you forgot that most of the AQ leader ship was taken out or arrested by Pakistan and its armed forces. As for me being in denial no sir i can assure you I am not. I am not somebody who would close his eyes and believe everything is ok and whatever happens bad, happens because of the US and India. We are equally to be blamed. My question was very specific to which you simply did not reply. I am not the one making accusations here. Its easy for us to sit comfortable at our homes and criticize, while some of it is genuine, Yours may i add is misplaced.


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## Saifullah Sani

Black Widow said:


> Please tell us...


wait for reply


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## ambivalence

Stealth said:


> This is technically not possible. Terrorist are not capable to do such event. It's pure Special operation style squad. It's pure Inside job (101% authentic information providers) who help them. Providing massive Ammo.. military hardware, Guns and gadgets, Latest Tech etc. It's pure operation. The performance of Pakistan agencies are big big Question Mark. All Chief's ARMY, AIRFORCE, NAVY and ISI resign immediately. All forces are damn failed to stop such attacks.
> 
> We immediately RE-CONSIDER WOT policy.



what would happen if you guys reconsider the WOT policy? lets assume that Pakistan withdraws from the WOT, the extremists would portray it as a victory over the mighty Pakistan army which would probably lead to even more people believing in their cause. Bulk of the pakistani population is illiterate and it wouldn't take much to win them over to the dark side. Free nations dont back out from challenges, they meet them head on. Its the terrorist's goal to make you think this way. If you back out today, you'd be jeopardizing your future.


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## Stealth

*People Of Pakistan... TV journalist.... and Media ASKED GOVT and COURT ... that ALL THESE TERRORIST AND OSAMA BIN LADIN SON who is under Pakistan Army and those who arrested should come on Media and our TV journalist (Talat Hussain, Kashif etc) take some serious interview of all these terrorist LIVE ON TV so that people of this Nation knows what is reality!*

No one care and even trust on any statement come from Govt or Military side. FC issue recently already big evidence of Wrong information!


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## RescueRanger

These guys were Good. They took out the fire fighting station in the airbase prior to purging the fuel bladders and storage tanks and attacking the aircraft, it is impossible to fathom that they did not have inside help on this one. Sorry but this is hard to swallow. So many innocent jawan's dead, HEADS should ROLL!

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## huzihaidao12

muse said:


> I do aghree that the character of this operation is very different but in one sense it's very similar -- it's the strategic quality of the thinking behind it -- in Mumbai, the opportunity for a peaceful normal relations was subverted -- in this case, the point is not the aircraft destroyed, though, this attack has effective destroyed the Navy's recon and anti-sub capability - but really what it has highlighted is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are very very unsafe - you know that Pakistani nuclear weapons are dispersed in various military facilities - if a major facility can be so effectively attacked, well this time the world dodged a bullet , does the world really want to take another chance?
> 
> Now coming to the training, yes, I very much agree about the quality of the training and I point you to the training offered by the so called 333 brigade or Laskar e Zil , the commander of this unit was associated with that other organization I highlighted in the previous post.
> 
> But I remain open to persuasive arguments.
> 
> I will also make the point that this operation required a great deal of inside help, with multiple igress and prepositioning of weapons


 
Think about it, if anyone needs an excuse, as you said, they will create an excuse for their own actions?


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## mirage 5000

Pioneerfirst said:


> 2 PC3 orions is a huge loss they worth 800 million dollar and US will deliver such equipment again to Pakistan.


 
dude come down please .they are just 65million after all we get used and upgrade them .


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## Riz

self delet............


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## Dance

RescueRanger said:


> These guys were Good. They took out the fire fighting station in the airbase prior to purging the fuel bladders and storage tanks and attacking the aircraft, it is impossible to fathom that they did not have inside help on this one. Sorry but this is hard to swallow. So many innocent jawan's dead, HEADS should ROLL!


 
It wouldn't be too surprising if that inside help was some ex-army man. Pasha should no doubt resign after this


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## Riz

PN Security forces Death toll to 12 According to the Sama news ................


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## jha

Now they are claiming 40 terrorists ..

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:14 PM ----------

Watch Aaj News Live &#8211; High Quality Streaming


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## Stealth

our Innocent Jawan's Died because of ***** B**** policies of Pakistan Generals and GovT since last 10 years! WHY!!!!!!!


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## huzihaidao12

Sir, you are too naive, if anyone needs a reason, they will create their own, such as this time, then, you see, Pakistan is unsafe. Yes, no evidence. But the theory is possible.


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## forcetrip

muse said:


> I do aghree that the character of this operation is very different but in one sense it's very similar -- it's the strategic quality of the thinking behind it -- in Mumbai, the opportunity for a peaceful normal relations was subverted -- in this case, the point is not the aircraft destroyed, though, this attack has effective destroyed the Navy's recon and anti-sub capability - but really what it has highlighted is that Pakistan's nuclear weapons are very very unsafe - you know that Pakistani nuclear weapons are dispersed in various military facilities - if a major facility can be so effectively attacked, well this time the world dodged a bullet , does the world really want to take another chance?
> 
> Now coming to the training, yes, I very much agree about the quality of the training and I point you to the training offered by the so called 333 brigade or Laskar e Zil , the commander of this unit was associated with that other organization I highlighted in the previous post.
> 
> But I remain open to persuasive arguments.
> 
> I will also make the point that this operation required a great deal of inside help, with multiple igress and prepositioning of weapons


 
You cannot compare a Nuke Installation and launch site to a PNS Base with a PAF Museum open for the public right besides it. The Base should have been guarded better no doubt, but not to the scale you are trying to portray. Try to find a Nuke site and roam around within 15km of it. You will see how secure it is.


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## ambivalence

it would be a huge disgrace if the higher ups in the Pakistani Military don't resign after this. Failure is not an option if your going through the most sensitive phase in your history. If they cant do their job, the should step down and let someone else do it.

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## Rao Sahab

afghan tv is retarted


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## Chinese-Dragon

My Pakistani brothers, I am very sorry for your loss.

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## huzihaidao12

ambivalence said:


> what would happen if you guys reconsider the WOT policy? lets assume that Pakistan withdraws from the WOT, the extremists would portray it as a victory over the mighty Pakistan army which would probably lead to even more people believing in their cause. Bulk of the pakistani population is illiterate and it wouldn't take much to win them over to the dark side. Free nations dont back out from challenges, they meet them head on. Its the terrorist's goal to make you think this way. If you back out today, you'd be jeopardizing your future.


 
It is Pakistan's problem, but I do not think it is a reason to cover everything. do not have to use it so cheap.


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## Royan

forcetrip said:


> You cannot compare a Nuke Installation and launch site to a PNS Base with a PAF Museum open for the public right besides it. The Base should have been guarded better no doubt, but not to the scale you are trying to portray. Try to find a Nuke site and roam around within 15km of it. You will see how secure it is.


 
Finding it won't be a problem If the have insider help,this is what muse is hinting at!!


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## Black Widow

whats the current status, is it over, Is Pakistani commandos took control over naval base???


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## All-Green

Zarvan said:


> Man when Mullah Omar will be with you than nobody in TTP will listen to what Hakeemullah has to say because only they will listen to MULLAH OMAR so TTP will have no reason left other wise you will keep getting hit


 
Read my post again and maybe you realize what i am saying.

Mullah Omar is not superman and TTP is stronger than Omar's Taliban and has already won over many of his former allies.
Omar declared Col Imam as someone like his father...how come Hakimullah and TTP is still untouched by Omar and his former/current allies?

You need to think and not give into emotions and associate Omar with miracles!
The beast that is the TTP is not likely to submit to Omar or anyone else.

The Islamic system implemented by Afghan Taliban was in no way reflection of true Islamic values and reeked of bias against other sects and women.
Not to mention the very stupid laws regarding beards etc.
All in all, i do not accept their Islamic interpretation...however it is indeed quite common with that perpetrated by the TTP.

Who is to say the Afghan Taliban will change their ways and learn from their previous ignorance in the name of Islam?
I think there is no chance here as well.

We do not have the luxury of counting on middle men...be it Sufi Muhammad or Omar.
As far as one can deduce logically, these middle men are more at odds with us than the TTP.

Once again, do think deep and beyond individuals!
Focus on the narratives used by the organizations and their actions!

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## macnurv

ambivalence said:


> what would happen if you guys reconsider the WOT policy? lets assume that Pakistan withdraws from the WOT, the extremists would portray it as a victory over the mighty Pakistan army which would probably lead to even more people believing in their cause. Bulk of the pakistani population is illiterate and it wouldn't take much to win them over to the dark side. Free nations dont back out from challenges, they meet them head on. Its the terrorist's goal to make you think this way. If you back out today, you'd be jeopardizing your future.


 
Perception is reality and much of Pakistan populace is against the so called WOT. To most of Pakistanis it seems as our Army and Government is fighting the US war. TTP are the enemy but they are clearly getting both logistical as well as financial support from other countries. 
Pakistan needs to distance itself from US war and only then we can achieve any victory. As far as your comment about much of the Pakistani population being illiterate, only one part is true. Most of Pakistanis have seen the true face of TTP but are still confused if OBL was a hero or a villain and we can thank the religious party retards for that.

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## huzihaidao12

huzihaidao12 said:


> Sir, you are too naive, if anyone needs a reason, they will create their own, such as this time, then, you see, Pakistan is unsafe. Yes, no evidence. But the theory is possible.



You see,what is this?




ambivalence said:


> it would be a huge disgrace if the higher ups in the Pakistani Military don't resign after this. Failure is not an option if your going through the most sensitive phase in your history. If they cant do their job, the should step down and let someone else do it.


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## Dance

Black Widow said:


> whats the current status, is it over, Is Pakistani commandos took control over naval base???


 
Apparently the operation is in it's last stages, most if not all the terrorists have been killed. Firing has decreased


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## Obambam

Time for some recap. I think the story is unraveling and playing out very well:






the further the story, we now have constant attacks made against Pakistan. There has been attack on military training facility, naval base and talks about nuclear facilities and Obama threatening similar raids on terrorist leaders etc. Something tells me that this is a plot of some kind.

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## Rao Sahab

salute to all maytreds

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## mirage 5000

now do some more dirty job for get 6 P3-Cs as we have agreement of 6 more .


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## Obambam

God bless the brave souls of Pakistan. Hopefully China and Russia can assist Pakistan and do something about the recent rise of terrorist activities.

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## huzihaidao12

We can not get the facts, but we can make a fact?

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## Chinese-Dragon

Obambam said:


> God bless the brave souls of Pakistan. Hopefully China and Russia can assist Pakistan and do something about the recent rise of terrorist activities.


 
Agreed buddy.

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## GUNS-N- ROSES

i read this interesting article by B RAMAN, i thought to shre it with all members.

Why terrorists targeted the Pak naval base - Rediff.com News


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## Mansanpk2009

The loopholes or in fact manholes in our security system are now completely visible to our nation. The confidence building of our nation was not achieved seriously after Osama's episode but another blow now hits us badly! how can we justify that we would be able to protect our nukes??? We have to remember that a full scale war with any of our enemy hidden or visible is yet to be started! We are already loosing trillions and suffocating to a disastrous failure. May Allah protect us because only Allah can do that but ground realities are not healthy enough for us to expect any miracle from our current security set up.


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## Saifullah Sani



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## DV RULES

zer0 said:


> I agree, Pakistan is wasting too much money on "trying" to advance its military, if they invest that money in public and education maybe they wont be in this . The only cure for like this is education.


 

When we shall come out from dream world? 

Education, no doubt should be improved but without proper security how you will face countries which got blind in military power?

Pakistan doesn't wast money spending on military but wast money not to spend in purchasing technology which is need of time.


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## T90TankGuy

the operation is still on . though what surprises me is how people are able to take the time off to post replies , that to on a Monday . don't you guys have work? i am not able to follow this forum on my laptop as i am in office i need to do it on my phone . man its a pain . 
i think this attack also proves that the real threat to Pakistan is not from India but from within . guys seriously we do not want to invade you guys but we are keeping our guard up and modernizing . you guys too need to keep your guard up but stop thinking India wants to destroy you . and see the problems created by these bast**** of the taliban .


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## Abu Basit

Nothing said:


> Go post this in jokes section ... here people are doing some serious discussion...


 
Who let you out of this cage?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/


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## sid426

Don't look for any help from China and Russia. Already foreign influence in your country has created alot of trouble.

Its time for introspection for the Pakistani people and its establishment. They should shun the use of violence to gain strategic depth in Afghanistan and fuel insurgencies in India.

Terrorism is a double edged sword. Same people who were considered assets by the Pakistani Army are creating havoc in your own country.

Violence begets violence, revenge begets revenge.

The world is moving on, India is moving on, and you are left behind to fight a war for someone else.

Please think about it. Think about the Pakistan you want to leave for your future generations.


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## Rao Sahab

this is the biggest question for pakistan intelligence how they entered what is the sequrity of an important navel base


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## GUNS-N- ROSES

The Faisal Base of the Pakistan Air Force located about 10 kilometres from the Karachi international airport is what the PAF calls a joint user airfield. It is used by the PAF and the air arms of the Pakistan army and navy as well as by the VVIP squadron. All air surveillance movements over the sea -- whether by the PAF or by the army or by the PN -- are controlled from this base.

Since 1975, the operating base of the Naval Air Arm, called PNS Mehran, is located inside this airfield. All senior officers of the Naval Air Arm operate from PNS Mehran. 


The Naval Air Arm at PNS Mehran is headed by Commander Naval Aviation (COMNAV). Under him there are four Heads of Department designated as Commander Air (Cdr Air), Commander Air Engineering Department (Cdr AED), Commanding Officer MEHRAN (CO MEH) and Officer Commanding Naval Aviation Training School (OC NATS).

The squadrons of the Naval Air Arm are stationed in PNS Mehran. These are the P3C Orion Squadron (28 Sqn), the Atlantic Squadron (29 Sqn), the Fokker Squadron (27 Sqn), the Seaking Squadron (111 Sqn) and the Alouette Squadron (333 Sqn). 

While the Naval Air Arm was raised primarily to provide maritime surveillance capability against India, it has been playing, in addition, a counter-terrorism role since the US started its Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan in October, 2001. 

This counter-terrorism role consists of air surveillance to prevent any sea-borne intrusions of Al Qaeda and to detect any terrorist plans for attacks on ships bringing supplies for the NATO forces in Afghanistan. The supplies are landed in the Karachi port and then moved by trucks to Afghanistan.

While the Pakistani army and air force have no operational role to play in the US-led military operations in the Afghan territory against Al Qaeda and the Neo Taliban, the Pakistani navy is a member of the US-led international naval force which patrols the seas to the west of Pakistan to prevent any hostile activity which could hamper the operations in Afghan territory. 


The Combined Task Force 150, established at the beginning of Operation Enduring Freedom in 2001, comprises naval forces from France, Germany, Italy, Pakistan, the United Kingdom and the United States. 


The task force conducts maritime security operations in the Gulf of Aden, the Gulf of Oman, the Arabian Sea, the Red Sea, and the Indian Ocean. The leadership of the Task Force is rotated amongst the participating navies. A Pakistani naval officer has been commanding it off and on when the turn of the Pakistan navy comes.

On November 16, 2004, the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency announced that it had accepted Pakistan's request to buy seven P-3C Orion aircraft with T-56 turboprop engines, communications equipment, training devices, medical services, support and test equipment, engineering technical services, supply support, operation and maintenance training, documentation, spare/repair parts, publications, personnel training, training equipment, contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related support elements. The estimated cost would be $970 million.



The DSCA announcement added: "The command-and-control capabilities of these aircraft will improve Pakistan's ability to restrict the littoral movement of terrorists along Pakistan's southern border and ensure Pakistan's overall ability to maintain integrity of their borders." 
"Pakistan intends to use the proposed purchase to develop a long needed fleet of maritime and border surveillance aircraft. The addition of these aircraft will provide Pakistan with search, surveillance, and control capability in support of maritime interdiction operations and increase their ability to support the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom Operations; anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare capabilities; and a control capability over land against transnational terrorists and narcotics smugglers. The modernization will enhance the capabilities of the Pakistani Navy and support its regional influence and meet its legitimate self-defense needs. Pakistan is capable of absorbing and maintaining these additional aircraft in its inventory."

The first two of these aircraft were delivered in April 2010 and officially inducted into the Naval Air Arm at a function held at PNS Mehran on June 2, 2010. Some more of the remaining five have since been inducted, but their number is not known. These planes are generally kept in hangars belonging to the Naval Air Arm and operate from the joint user airfield.

The active role played by the Pakistani Navy in support of the NATO operations in Afghanistan has attracted the anger of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan. 

On March 4, 2008, two unidentified suicide bombers, operating in tandem, attacked the prestigious Naval War College located in a high security area of Lahore. They were both on motor-cycles. 


One of them rammed his motor-cycle against the security gate at the rear of the building breaking it open. The other drove through this opening into the parking area and blew himself up. 


Their target was the naval institution and not any particular individual or individuals inside. They wanted to demonstrate their ability to penetrate the campus and cause damage. Six persons were killed -- one of them a naval officer, three members of the security guards at the gate and the two suicide bombers.



On December 2, 2009, an alert official of the Pakistani naval intelligence in plain clothes and a naval security guard in uniform deployed outside the building of the Pakistan Navy Headquarters in Islamabad prevented what could have been a major terrorist strike against the Naval Headquarters by an unidentified suicide bomber. 


Spotting a suspicious-looking individual outside the NHQ, they stopped him and searched him. He turned out to be a suicide bomber wearing a concealed suicide vest. 


However, they could not prevent him from activating the explosive device in the vest. One person was killed on the spot and another succumbed to his injuries later.

Two Pakistani naval personnel -- a commissioned officer of the rank of sub-lieutenant and a sailor -- were among four persons killed in two separate but coordinated explosions in Karachi on April 26, 2011. The explosions targeted two buses of the Pakistan Navy which were transporting naval personnel to their places of work. According to available indications, the improvised explosive devices, which struck the buses, had been planted along routes normally taken by the buses and activated through mobile telephones.

According to the 'Daily Times' of Lahore (April 27,2011), the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, as the Pakistani Taliban is known, claimed the responsibility for the blasts, and threatened more attacks on security forces. The claim was made in a telephone call to a foreign news agency by a person who identified himself as Ehsanullah Ehsan, a spokesman of the Taliban. 

He reportedly said: "Security forces will be targeted in the future as well, because they are killing their own people in Waziristan and elsewhere at the behest of the United States."



Since the raid by the Pakistani military commandos into the Lal Masjid in Islamabad in July, 2007, there has been a number of retaliatory attacks by the TTP against the army, the air force, the Special Services Group, the Inter-Services Intelligence, the para-military forces and the police. 


It is, however, believed that the attacks on the navy were connected to its role in providing maritime support to the NATO forces in Afghanistan. The navy had no role to play in the Lal Masjid raid.


The Pakistani authorities have been apprehending a surge in these attacks on the security forces, including the navy, in retaliation for the raid by US naval commandos into the residence of Osama bin Laden at Abbottabad on May 2, in which OBL was killed.


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## Bang Galore

muse said:


> *The Indian did a terrible job - their security forces were a disaster, the worst part of it was to treat the attack like a show - the terrorists disrupted an entire city, killed without fear and ultimately succeeded in their mission.*
> 
> Anyway, lets keep our focus - if Pakistanis are prone to seeking succor in denial, our Indian friends seek it in empty triumphalism - both are unsatisfactory responses to a bitter reality


 

True but the mistake was acknowledged, some heads rolled & an attempt has been made to rectify shortcomings. Pakistan does not even acknowledge that there is a problem, instead an attempt is made to exonerate the attackers by blaming the government's policies (in this case - the WoT) and burying the head in the sand. Pakistan cannot win a war when it chooses to identify everyone else but the perpetrators of such attacks as the enemy.

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## Saifullah Sani

jbgt90 said:


> the operation is still on . though what surprises me is how people are able to take the time off to post replies , that to on a Monday . don't you guys have work? i am not able to follow this forum on my laptop as i am in office i need to do it on my phone . man its a pain .
> i think this attack also proves that the real threat to Pakistan is not from India but from within . guys seriously we do not want to invade you guys but we are keeping our guard up and modernizing . you guys too need to keep your guard up but stop thinking India wants to destroy you . and see the problems created by these bast**** of the taliban .


hope all Indians think like you


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## sid426

Saifullah Sani said:


> hope all Indians think like you


 
almost all of the indians think like him. :smile:


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## Dance

Naval chief is supposed to arrive soon. Operation pretty much over


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## sur

Obambam said:


> God bless the brave souls of Pakistan. Hopefully China and Russia can assist Pakistan and do something about the recent rise of terrorist activities.


 


Chinese-Dragon said:


> My Pakistani brothers, I am very sorry for your loss.


 
*To Chinese friends,*

Trust us,, all what is going-on is to hurt Pakistan to "kill-many-birds-with-one-stone".

Americans in collaboration with indians & others want to damage Pakistan to secure israel, to hinder Chinese prosperity by damaging their business-route thru Pakistan... Americans have taken indians onboard by showing them wet-dreams of success against her enemy Pakistan... Americans r playing great-game & unfortunatelly quite well so far,,, Americans control ppl in our Govt. & have them make policies that result in financial collapse,,, inTurn poverty & illetracy increases & it becomes easier for them to buy goones from locals... Patsies are hired from local ppl & are used to carry such activities inside Pak, including attacks on *Chisese-friends* working in Pakistan...

Trust us,,, it's ONLY a matter of time when CIA would fail in her *EVIL-plans * against Pak & China & will leave looking for another soft-target-muslim-country to keep privately-owned weapon factories running while securing israel... india will then run for her life with her tail b/w her legs...

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## Nothing

^^ I think so my one liner hurts you.
Even above post should go to joke section.
BTW I have freedom to move from one thread to another ... don't you know that 

Lets go back to topic...
What is current status ... ? did special groups flushed the rats out of base ?


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## AstanoshKhan

Isn't it rather odd, that in such daring attacks, American personnel come out unscathed? Pakistani Media report that American engineers were working at the base on a newly delivered US aircraft. Could they have rigged the place with explosives in a false flag operation and provide the perfect pretext to pursue Pak's nuclear assets on the grounds that the country cannot safely guard it's strategic assets? I heard Talat hussein say on ARY that it was impossible for the Terrorists to know exactly where p3's were without Ariel reconnaissance.

I think the Govt. and Army should come open and declare that Pakistan is in a state of War and declare who the really enemy is and make the whole nation united against. Kub tak Govt aor Army hamaray saaath Aaankh Macholi kelti Rahegi...

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## Ajaxpaul

Saifullah Sani said:


> hope all Indians think like you


 
90 % of indians think like him only, maybe 10% think the other way. Man 10% means 120 million people. Thats a huge number so i think less than 10% think ill of pakistan


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## Rao Sahab

pakistan has agreement of 6 orion planesc from usa


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## khurasaan1

Another CIA cum Mosaad 's dirty game....

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## JonAsad

p3c orions were they insured?-


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## Abu Basit

*Mumbai-Style Attack On PNS Mehran: Pakistani Militarys Multiple Enemies*

Posted by Ahmed Quraishi on May 23rd, 2011

This is not the first Mumbai-style attack in Pakistan. Pakistani military is not an easy target for bandits based on the Afghan border. The sophisticated attacks inside Pakistan after 2005 reveal formal training and superior equipment for fighting and communication. Pakistani military is under attack by several powers in the region since 2002.

*

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan*What happened at a Pakistan Navy aviation base in the past few hours is something that could normally result from an attack by one country on another. An enemy would have to come from across international borders to destroy P-3C Orion surveillance aircrafts parked at a high-security navy aviation base. And not any enemy would do. This enemy would have to possess quality military and intelligence skills to execute such a hit. Up to 15 terrorists can sneak into a maximum-security navy base but cannot simultaneously hold themselves up against commandos from the police, navy marines and the army while still finding time to attack and destroy two major assets in the arsenal of Pakistan Navy.

What is unfathomable is how a ragtag army of bandits, supposedly based in barren mountains on the Afghan border, could have pulled off such a feat against one of the top seven militaries of the world.

Mumbai-Style Attack On PNS Mehran: Pakistani Military

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## huzihaidao12

AstanoshKhan said:


> Isn't it rather odd, that in such daring attacks, American personnel come out unscathed? Pakistani Media report that American engineers were working at the base on a newly delivered US aircraft. Could they have rigged the place with explosives in a false flag operation and provide the perfect pretext to pursue Pak's nuclear assets on the grounds that the country cannot safely guard it's strategic assets? I heard Talat hussein say on ARY that it was impossible for the Terrorists to know exactly where p3's were without Ariel reconnaissance.
> 
> I think the Govt. and Army should come open and declare that Pakistan is in a state of War and declare who the really enemy is and make the whole nation united against. Kub tak Govt aor Army hamaray saaath Aaankh Macholi kelti Rahegi...


 
There are the Americans? Good, at least it is a good source for information, in theory.


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## Obambam

ajaxpaul said:


> 90 % of indians think like him only, maybe 10% think the other way. Man 10% means 120 million people. Thats a huge number so i think less than 10% think ill of pakistan


 
They must be the Muslim population in India then so it makes sense


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## Ajaxpaul

sur said:


> *To Chinese friends,*
> 
> Trust us,, all what is going-on is to hurt Pakistan to "kill-many-birds-with-one-stone".
> 
> Americans in collaboration with indians & others want to damage Pakistan to secure israel, to hinder Chinese prosperity by damaging their business-route thru Pakistan... Americans have taken indians onboard by showing them wet-dreams of success against her enemy Pakistan... Americans r playing great-game & unfortunatelly quite well so far,,, Americans control ppl in our Govt. & have them make policies that result in financial collapse,,, inTurn poverty & illetracy increases & it becomes easier for them to buy goones from locals... Patsies are hired from local ppl & are used to carry such activities inside Pak, including attacks on *Chisese-friends* working in Pakistan...
> 
> Trust us,,, it's ONLY a matter of time when CIA would fail in her *EVIL-plans * against Pak & China & will leave looking for another soft-target-muslim-country to keep privately-owned weapon factories running while securing israel... india will then run for her life with her tail b/w her legs...


 
I dont know why i find this funny. Complaining to china and pointing fingers at India and CIA. I hope now the Chinese will take a stick and beat our open palm for our mischiefs.


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## humanfirst

khurasaan1 said:


> Another CIA cum Mosaad 's dirty game....


 
No it is your own pakistani muslim brothers doing all this.Not cia or mossad.


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## Devil Soul

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:16 PM ----------

Attackers In Pakistan Naval Base Assault Can Survive For Days: Taliban
MIRANSHAH, Pakistan, May 23 (Reuters) - A spokesman for the Pakistani Taliban said that the team of militants they sent into Karachi's PNS Mehran naval base Sunday night had enough supplies to survive a three-day siege.

"They have enough ammunition and food and they can fight and survive for three days," Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters.

He said up to 22 militants were assigned to launch the attack. Accounts are unclear, but up to five militants may have been killed by Pakistani troops. The remaining are holed up in a building on the base exchanging fire with commandos.

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## PLAYIN

Obambam said:


> God bless the brave souls of Pakistan. Hopefully China and Russia can assist Pakistan and do something about the recent rise of terrorist activities.


 
buddy why just Russia and china, India and afghanistan would like too clean up the terrorism mess within pakistan.
very much Depressed
god help pakistan.


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## AstanoshKhan

Lt.Yasir Has reportedly embraced Shahadat in ensuing battle at PNS Mehran. He received 3 Bullets and fought bravely, May ALLAH accept him and protect Pakistan.

and here is his profile...

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php...564044&sk=info

INA LILLAHI WA INA ILEHI RAJIOON

Taken from Siasat.pk

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## IceCold

Indians telling us about self introspection...........really guys.
Why don't you guys for once mind your fcking own God damn business.

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## Devil Soul



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## Obambam

PLAYIN said:


> buddy why just Russia and china, India and afghanistan would like too clean up the terrorism mess within pakistan.
> very much Depressed
> god help pakistan.


 
Frankly speaking. Pakistan isn't in the best of terms with India right now. Having India on board will result in little progress. It's like how India would rather solve it's internal issues without the help of Pakistan's military.

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## barryusa

Abu Basit said:


> *Mumbai-Style Attack On PNS Mehran: Pakistani Militarys Multiple Enemies*
> 
> Posted by Ahmed Quraishi on May 23rd, 2011
> 
> This is not the first Mumbai-style attack in Pakistan. Pakistani military is not an easy target for bandits based on the Afghan border. The sophisticated attacks inside Pakistan after 2005 reveal formal training and superior equipment for fighting and communication. Pakistani military is under attack by several powers in the region since 2002.
> 
> *
> *


*

Again, Indian commandos were at a civilian hotel where Pakistanis had killed innoncents and where Pakistanis were holding civlians hostage. Surely, the length of time to control the situation stemmed from a desire to limit further bloodshed among civlians.

PNS Mehran is an attack on a military facility against military assets. 

These comparisons to Mumbai are both odious and disingenous!*

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## Chinese-Dragon

IceCold said:


> Indians telling us about self introspection...........really guys.
> Why don't you guys for once mind your fcking own God damn business.


 
I agree 100%. 

But they will never stop poking their nose into other people's affairs and whining.


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## Stealth

There is no relation between Terrorist Destroy Planes.. i dont think Mari-time aircraft will hurt any terrorist organization.. 

So who will destroy MILITARY ASSETS ??? definitely enemy who concerned over Military hardware of Pakistan.... *QUESTION!*


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## sur

*Mubhar Luqmaan on Duniya TV just said that; NDTV did a program 1 hr before this attack on Orion-planes in Pakistan & talked about it's pros/cons & india NOT having this plane... According to him it's very suspecious & that indian media was signalled that it's time to start reporting on upcoming attack in Pakistan... media was little too early,,, just like BBC was little too early to report collapse of WTC-7 even before it fell...*

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## huzihaidao12

barryusa said:


> Again, Indian commandos were at a civilian hotel where Pakistanis had killed innoncents and where Pakistanis were holding civlians hostage. Surely, the length of time to control the situation stemmed from a desire to limit further bloodshed among civlians.
> 
> PNS Mehran is an attack on a military facility against military assets.
> 
> These comparisons to Mumbai are both odious and disingenous!


 
A new member of the United States again? You pick a good time, sir.


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## Rao Sahab

barryusa said:


> Again, Indian commandos were at a civilian hotel where Pakistanis had killed innoncents and where Pakistanis were holding civlians hostage. Surely, the length of time to control the situation stemmed from a desire to limit further bloodshed among civlians.
> 
> PNS Mehran is an attack on a military facility against military assets.
> 
> These comparisons to Mumbai are both odious and disingenous!


 
u are killing me


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## Dance

Rehman Malik here, which probably means the operation has been completed, he'll be speaking to the press after he's briefed


Here's a pic of him arriving in his swanky BMW 
Lockerz.com .:. Shaheryar Mirza's Photos - Rehman Malik just arrived at the #pnsmehran base #karachiattacks conclusion soon, he will come back for press


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## Rao Sahab

4 terrorist blast them selfs

---------- Post added at 12:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

4 were arrested

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## Obambam

Lets hope they can squeeze something out of those 4 that are arrested and hope they don't die from suspicious and premature deaths.


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## AstanoshKhan

We stand by our Armed Forces.

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## Chinese-Dragon

rash2k2 said:


> SO Mr China what the * are you doing here . Its internal matter of Pakistan and you also have no business here .Or CCP bosses have asked you that pakistan is also one of province of China?


 
Learn to read Indian, I came here to give my support to Pakistan.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> My Pakistani brothers, I am very sorry for your loss.

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## Dance

Operation has ended

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## Ahmad

Stealth said:


> There is no relation between Terrorist Destroy Planes.. i dont think Mari-time aircraft will hurt any terrorist organization..
> 
> So who will destroy MILITARY ASSETS ??? definitely enemy who concerned over Military hardware of Pakistan.... *QUESTION!*


 
These types of damages is to the interests of Taliban as well, it is a fight between 2 sides, and both of them try to bring all sort of damages to each other in everything.

By the way, i think the Talibn have accepted responsibility.


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## Obambam

rash2k2 said:


> SO Mr China what the * are you doing here . Its internal matter of Pakistan and you also have no business here .Or *CCP bosses have asked you that pakistan is also one of province of China?*


 
We are for the good of Pakistan. We are not here to poke fun for starters, as your words have once again proven readers to be correct:


> CCP bosses have asked you that pakistan is also one of province of China?


 Words from Indian mouths about Pakistan-China are often laced with venom.

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## barryusa

huzihaidao12 said:


> A new member of the United States again? You pick a good time, sir.


 
You bet. We've given your country nearly $20 billion from our Treasury and we find that our most wanted criminal is enjoying the good life near your military academy!

I just had to find a forum where Pakistanis would feign shock and surprise. Now I find that Pakistanis compare an attack by terrorists (a Pakistani is being tried in the US in connection with that slaughter) on civilians to an attack on a military base!

I had to see it to believe it!

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## Rao Sahab

operation were completed

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## Bratva

Whole Operation is conducted by SSG/N, naval marines and rangers. 11 naval officials and 1 ranger died during operation.

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## Riz

Reportedly 4 instead of 2 PC3 Orian plans had been damaged or destroyed in this operation


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## Huda

AstanoshKhan said:


> We stand by our Armed Forces.


 
Bus Allah humhari Armed forces ko hadayat de


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## President Camacho

riz1978 said:


> Reportedly 4 instead of 2 PC3 Orian plans had been damaged or destroyed in this operation


 
But 4 is all P3C that Pakistan has... though I read somewhere they were all parked at PNS Mehran.


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## All-Green

humanfirst said:


> No it is your own pakistani muslim brothers doing all this.Not cia or mossad.


 
Well, this particular tragedy needs to be investigated and only then will the truth come out...even then it can be disputed.
I am a strong opponent of TTP and all like them since they are 100% enemies of Pakistan and terrorists in nature, however not everything can be within their capability and truth of the matter should always be sought in order to prevent similar tragedies.


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## Comet

WHAT THE F**K IS GOING ON... this is getting too much now. How can this happen? If the army(navy, airforce) is not safe itself how can it protect the nation. Some bloody must be spanked now. Time to find and F**K the bastards behind the scenes.

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## muse

IceCold said:


> Perhaps sir you forgot that most of the AQ leader ship was taken out or arrested by Pakistan and its armed forces. As for me being in denial no sir i can assure you I am not. I am not somebody who would close his eyes and believe everything is ok and whatever happens bad, happens because of the US and India. We are equally to be blamed. My question was very specific to which you simply did not reply. I am not the one making accusations here. Its easy for us to sit comfortable at our homes and criticize, while some of it is genuine, Yours may i add is misplaced.


 

Icecold - please do take a read at what Rescue Ranger has to say about the inside help -- Easy to criticize, no, not really, because our criticism is justified, however, we do not invite or insist that everyone must agree - you don't find it persuasive, that's fine - I think it's important that we be open to each other so we can consider each others perspectives -- read what Rescue ranger has to say about what they first did, read about the multiple entry points, read about the quantity of the munitions and weapons (pre-position) . The purpose of the criticism is to refine ourselves to make ourselves better, if you can't handle the criticism, well, I realize you think it's misplaced, perhas we may continue to blame other for our shortcomings, it seems to work for us, you think?


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## footmarks

AstanoshKhan said:


> Lt.Yasir Has reportedly embraced Shahadat in ensuing battle at PNS Mehran. He received 3 Bullets and fought bravely, May ALLAH accept him and protect Pakistan.
> 
> and here is his profile...
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/profile.php...564044&sk=info
> 
> INA LILLAHI WA INA ILEHI RAJIOON
> 
> Taken from Siasat.pk


 
My salute to him . Its the brave heroes like him who make their countrymen proud & filled with gratitude.

And its people like him that are the unsurpassable obstacles between terrorists & humanity.


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## Obambam

mafiya said:


> Whole Operation is conducted by SSG/N, naval marines and rangers. 11 naval officials and 1 ranger died during operation.


 
My thoughts and prayers are with the brave ones and their families. RIP and God Bless Pakistan.

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## Avatar

sur said:


> *Mubhar Luqmaan on Duniya TV just said that; NDTV did a program 1 hr before this attack on Orion-planes in Pakistan & talked about it's pros/cons & india NOT having this plane... According to him it's very suspecious & that indian media was signalled that it's time to start reporting on upcoming attack in Pakistan... media was little too early,,, just like BBC was little too early to report collapse of WTC-7 even before it fell...*



I surfed through every Indian news channel during the attack, and only star news was reporting it. There is no mention of it even on Times of India front page.


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## ramu

ajaxpaul said:


> I dont know why i find this funny. Complaining to china and pointing fingers at India and CIA. I hope now the Chinese will take a stick and beat our open palm for our mischiefs.


 
Pakistan for some reason finds itself in a subordinate role. It always expects somebody else to do its dirty job. 

In my native tongue, there is a saying that roughly translates to :
If you need to go to heaven, you should perform good deeds and you should die a honourable death. Someone else dying for you will not make you attain a place in heaven.

Pakistan should take this as an attack on Pakistan and take firm action to get rid of this menace for its own good.


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## Rao Sahab

Patanjali said:


> But 4 is all P3C that Pakistan has... though I read somewhere they were all parked at PNS Mehran.
> 
> pakistan has only 2 P3C left one is crashed in sea and one destroy by terrorist


----------



## Rao Sahab

rash2k2 said:


> hmm . dont worry I will come to support you people when xinxiang will burn by same religious fanatics that your province pakistan is harbouring now.


 
then would india is a biggest province of russia


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## Chinese-Dragon

rash2k2 said:


> hmm . dont worry I will come to support you people when xinxiang will burn by same religious fanatics that your province pakistan is harbouring now.


 
Go troll somewhere else Indian.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Geronimo2011

kugga said:


> even a child can understand this cannot be done by TTP... they are not of that calliber... they can just kill civilians doing such an operation is not possible for them... I mean they are not capable of this..


 
Err.. Why not?? Didnt their sister organization LeT do a Mumbai 26/11??

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## Devil Soul

all arrested terrorists must be


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## Omar1984

sur said:


> *Mubhar Luqmaan on Duniya TV just said that; NDTV did a program 1 hr before this attack on Orion-planes in Pakistan & talked about it's pros/cons & india NOT having this plane... According to him it's very suspecious & that indian media was signalled that it's time to start reporting on upcoming attack in Pakistan... media was little too early,,, just like BBC was little too early to report collapse of WTC-7 even before it fell...*


 
What is so special about these Orion aircrafts? Can Pakistan buy a similar aircraft from China?

I am sorry, my knowledge about aircrafts is not so good.

Its interesting that the terrorists were so determined to get rid of these Orion aircrafts. What so special about these Orion aircrafts.


----------



## Rao Sahab

Geronimo2011 said:


> Err.. Why not?? Didnt their sister organization LeT do a Mumbai 26/11??



omg.....u r hotels are captured by sisters organization u just captured by female lol


----------



## Devil Soul

*Pakistan naval base siege close to an end*
By Faisal Aziz  7 mins ago
KARACHI (Reuters)  Troops battled Taliban gunmen holed up in Pakistan's naval air force headquarters on Monday after the most audacious attack in the unstable, nuclear-armed country since the killing of Osama bin Laden.
Blasts rang out and helicopters hovered above the PNS Mehran base in the city of Karachi, nearly 12 hours after more than 20 Pakistani Taliban militants stormed the building with guns and grenades, blowing up at least one aircraft.
However, security officials and a senior minister said the operation appeared to be coming to an end.
"A major area has been cleared," Interior Minister Rehman Malik told reporters. "The sweeping process is continuing."
The assault casts fresh doubt on the Pakistan military's ability to protect its bases following an attack on the army headquarters in the city of Rawalpindi in 2009, and is a further embarrassment following the surprise raid by U.S. special forces on bin Laden's hideout north of Islamabad on May 2.
The Pakistan Taliban, which is allied with al Qaeda, said the attack was to avenge the al Qaeda leader's killing.
"It was the revenge of martyrdom of Osama bin Laden. It was the proof that we are still united and powerful," Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location.
Sporadic bouts of heavy gunfire erupted from the base as security forces battled to end the siege. Twelve military personnel were killed and 14 wounded in the assault that started at 10.30 p.m. on Sunday (1:30 p.m. EDT), a navy spokesman said.
"The operation is still on but resistance from militants has reduced significantly," spokesman Mohammad Yasir told Reuters. A security source said at least three militants had been killed.
GUNS, ROCKET-PROPELLED GRENADES
One security official said the militants had taken over a building in the base. Another official, contacted inside the base, denied reports that hostages had been taken, but added: "There is a chance that some terrorists have suicide belts or jackets."
The base is 15 miles from the Masroor Air Base, Pakistan's largest and a possible depot for nuclear weapons.
"They were carrying guns, rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and hand grenades. They hit the aircraft with an RPG," Navy spokesman Commander Salman Ali said of the militants.
A spokesman said one P-3C Orion, a maritime patrol aircraft supplied by the United States, had been destroyed and another aircraft had been damaged.
Media reports said the attackers had made their way in through a sewer pipe but that was not confirmed.
TALIBAN DENIES MULLAH OMAR KILLED
Pakistan has faced a wave of assaults over the last few years, many of them claimed by the Pakistani Taliban.
Others have been blamed on al Qaeda-linked militant groups once nurtured by the Pakistani military and which have since slipped out of control.
The Taliban have stepped up attacks since bin Laden's death, killing almost 80 people in a suicide bombing on a paramilitary academy and an assault on a U.S. consular vehicle in Peshawar.
The group also claimed responsibility for a botched plot to bomb New York's Times Square last year.
The TTP is led by Hakimullah Mehsud, whose fighters regularly clash with the army in the northwest, also widely believed to be a base for Afghan militants.
On Monday, an Afghan television station reported Taliban leader Mullah Omar had been killed in Pakistan, but the group denied it, saying he was safe and in Afghanistan.
Washington sees nuclear-armed Pakistan as a key, if difficult, ally essential to its attempts to root out militant forces in neighbouring Afghanistan.
Pakistan, however, sees militant groups as leverage in Afghanistan, and the discovery that bin Laden was living in the town of Abbottabad has revived suspicions that militants may be receiving help from within the security establishment.
Pakistan says its senior leadership did not know bin Laden's whereabouts, but his presence -- and his killing -- has strained already fragile ties United States and deeply embarrassed Pakistan's military.
The military, for its part, has come under intense pressure for allowing five U.S. helicopters to penetrate Pakistan's airspace and kill the al Qaeda leader.
Many U.S. lawmakers are questioning whether to cut the billions of dollars of aid Pakistan receives to help root out militants.
On Monday, the Pakistani rupee fell to a record low against the U.S. dollar, partly because of concerns that growing tensions with the West could choke off much needed foreign aid.
(Additional reporting by Chris Allbritton, Zeeshan Haider and Kamran Haider; Writing by Miral Fahmy; Editing by John Chalmers)


----------



## Devil Soul

salute to the brave men who are fighting with these a holes


----------



## JonAsad

All the strategic P3C Orions were parked at the same location- all close to each other- Biggest Planning Blunder-


and we should have pair of attack helicopters with night vision capability scattered at every important military installation/base for rapid deployment in such scenarios-


----------



## barryusa

pakis said:


> omg.....u r hotels are captured by sisters organization u just captured by female lol


 
Sort of what happened to Pakistan in the winter of 1971? How many of your troops surrendered that day?


----------



## redrj

rash2k2 said:


> How many times you hear news of Indian premier running to Russin to get support whenver we have any problem with any of major world power. India is a not a client state of any country . If that was the case Americans would have attacked abottabad from Indian side not form Afghanistan side. No country keeps on bombing in our territory and so we dont need any godfather to voice moral support for us .  wake up and accept the facts they way it is and get out of conspiracy theory mentality.


 
Well said.....


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## Devil Soul




----------



## Kompromat

Firing has started again.


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## Rafael

barryusa said:


> Sort of what happened to Pakistan in the winter of 1971? How many of your troops surrendered that day?


 
No but sort of what happened to your pussies*** in pearl harbour. I liked the way they cried and begged for their lives. I really enjoy that moment still. Now go and fu*k your mama you bloody ignorant yank! *tards are on the loose here...


----------



## JonAsad

wow so many new indian **** holes registering just to derail this thread- where are the moderators when we need one-


----------



## Omar1984

Aeronaut said:


> Firing has started again.


 
Pathetic. Just give all Pakistani military bases to China. Pakistani military are just too incompetent to do anything right.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Ahmad

Aeronaut said:


> Firing has started again.


 
we heard that it was over?


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## Major Sam

is the operation is ended or still these is some resistance remains from terrorists? whats the actual report? can any body tell


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## Windjammer

Patanjali said:


> But 4 is all P3C that Pakistan has... though I read somewhere they were all parked at PNS Mehran.


 
The PN has around a dozen P3C Orions in it's inventory, two from the original order while an other ten were subsequently supplied by the US.


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## Ahmad

Perhpas memebers living in Karachi could give us more details.


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## barryusa

raheel1 said:


> No but sort of what happened to your pussies*** in pearl harbour. I liked the way they cried and begged for their lives. I really enjoy that moment still. Now go and fu*k your mama you bloody ignorant yank! *tards are on the loose here...


 
I think Pearl Harbor was avenged shortly thereafter.

You have no problem taking tax money ($20 billion since 9/11 and military hadrdware) from a bunch of ********?

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## DarK-LorD

Omar1984 said:


> Pathetic. Just give all Pakistani military bases to China. Pakistani military are just too incompetent to do anything right.


 
PA is not incompetent,it's just taken by Surprise.


----------



## ambivalence

raheel1 said:


> No but sort of what happened to your pussies*** in pearl harbour. I liked the way they cried and begged for their lives. I really enjoy that moment still. Now go and fu*k your mama you bloody ignorant yank! *tards are on the loose here...



uncalled for. keep it civil. besides, it doesn't take a genius to spot a troll.


----------



## Pioneerfirst

Devil Soul said:


> salute to the brave men who are fighting with these a holes


 
The whole Pakistan has become a soft target and number of militants has too increased to many folds.Our intellegence agencies are tired they are following many different threats at a time.At this time we need to get united against Taliban.


----------



## JonAsad

So what are the causality reports on both sides-


----------



## newdelhinsa

rash2k2 said:


> hmm . dont worry I will come to support you people when xinxiang will burn by same religious fanatics that your province pakistan is harbouring now.


 
There is no need to mention any thing here on this thread mate. Chinese are here to flame Pakistanis against Indians and trust me many sane Pakistanis know this very well. Let them do what they are doing. Every thing has a consequence and at the end of the day the truth will prevail (&#2360;&#2340;&#2381;&#2351;&#2350;&#2375;&#2357; &#2332;&#2351;&#2340;&#2375;, remember!). Its none of Indian poster's business to comment on every Pakistani thread. 
They are a clever breed and will find the way out of this mess the way they want. 

Regards


----------



## DarK-LorD

raheel1 said:


> No but sort of what happened to your pussies*** in pearl harbour. I liked the way they cried and begged for their lives. I really enjoy that moment still. Now go and fu*k your mama you bloody ignorant yank! *tards are on the loose here...



Don't talk to Americans like that.


----------



## Rafael

barryusa said:


> I think Pearl Harbor was avenged shortly thereafter.
> 
> You have no problem taking tax money ($20 billion since 9/11 and military hadrdware) from a bunch of ********?


 
Nobody takes your *ing money, you spend it for your own good. Go shove it up your as* somwhere!

---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------




SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Don't talk to Americans like that.


 
And who are you exactly?


----------



## ambivalence

barryusa said:


> I think Pearl Harbor was avenged shortly thereafter.
> 
> You have no problem taking tax money ($20 billion since 9/11 and military hadrdware) from a bunch of ********?



Animals like you make me sick. Are you on a mission to make America look bad? quit your trolling u miserable excuse for a human.

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## Guest01

Omar1984 said:


> Pathetic. Just give all Pakistani military bases to China. Pakistani military are just too incompetant to do anything right.


I think that your idea is good. Though it will be adverse for India but in the interest of the region you have a point. I think that pakistani people should vote to arrange a sort of lease agreement like hong kong for 99 years to give pakistan to china. Then when everything is okay they can request china to return pakistan and then everything will be okay. Otherwise it is really sad to see the loss of lives and the degeneration of a proud nation.


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## Windjammer

Relax guys, the SSG have the scum bags in a corner and are trying to take them alive, hence the delay in completing the operation.


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## Leader

Glorious Resolve said:


> So what are the causality reports on both sides-


 
14 on navy side and ranger's side, and 4 on intruders side


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## muse

In the next attack - we should see a even more complex attack --- notice what Pakistani troops ride to the fight in - thin skin - it would be a damn shame if troops on the way to the fight were targeted by small IED or even one or two individuals taking a couple of shots along the route - an Afghan style rolling ambush - yes, that would be a shame especially in a urban environment

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## jahangeer yousaf

ambivalence said:


> Animals like you make me sick. Are you on a mission to make America look bad? quit your trolling u miserable excuse for a human.


 
it has nothing to do with mission ..... and we do need to make america look bad ..... it is ugly since it was discovered

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## TechMan

I think it's time we realize who our real enemy is. If we take a look at who benefits most from this incident then it will be clear that our real enemy are USA-India-Israel. And that TTP is definitely created/funded by CIA/Raw/Mosad.

Let's see:

1. It is on record that there are hundreds of CIA contractors, Black Water agents and other staff working in Pakistan but I don't remember TTP ever attacked them. I wonder why? I mean if there enemy number 1 is USA and they attack Pakistan because they say Pakistan is supporting USA in WOT then why they have never attacked primary target!? Some of those Blackwater and CIA personnels are already known and their location is also somewhat known as we read in newspaper from time to time but why no attack on them by TTP in all these years?
And if I remember correctly they have killed some Chinese civilians too but not US civilians!?

2. Was PC-3 Orion being used for surveillance against TTP? Who gets most benefit from there destruction?

3. USA has been saying all along that Pakistan nukes are in danger. So an attack on Naval base with aircrafts destroyed, they will use it as an excuse to spew more venom against Pakistan. Isn't it so convenient that the TTP is there to help USA's stance by attacking a military base?

4. You have to understand that Pakistan is in great danger. People say that our nukes are pretty safe, there are codes and protocol to follow bla bla bla and they can't be stolen or used without permission. Well people also used to say that a military base is a high security zone where terrorists can't do anything but look what happened? Do you see where it is going? They are upping the stakes one step at a time.
First it was just civilians, then army personnels, suicide bombings, attack on forces buses and caravans, attack on GHQ and now attack on naval base with 2,3 aircrafts destroyed!

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## great

For all those who criticized Indian security forces for slow progress on Mumbai attacks, what would you be calling this? Mumbai attacks were carried out on civilian establishments. Our military has to be careful to avoid hostage situations. Also there were multiple locations which were attacked. But here a key military installation is attacked and your military is still fighting albeit slowly.

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## DarK-LorD

raheel1 said:


> Nobody takes your *ing money, you spend it for your own good. Go shove it up your as* somwhere!
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> And who are you exactly?



I am going to US for a week.


----------



## ashant

I hope all of Pakistan's neighbors show solidarity and support in her hour of need. For us Indians, it is time to bury past issues, at least for the time being. Cynical comments, sarcasm and finger pointing by outsiders have no place during such terrible times. India-Pak hostilities can resume later..

But for this moment, RIP to the brave martyrs of PA and PN. Hope that all the terrorists are sent to their rightful destination in hell.

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## Leader

raheel1 said:


> And who are you exactly?


 
America's fluffy...

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## Black Widow

Omar1984 said:


> Pathetic. Just give all Pakistani military bases to China. Pakistani military are just too incompetent to do anything right.


 

And what that will change??? don't you feel ashamed by thinking to give up your military asset to some other country???? Pakistani military is not incompetent , its just they (Terrorists) take them by surprise.. 

I don't know why pakistani members are not replying tough to this moronic idea...


----------



## muse

great said:


> For all those who criticized Indian security forces for slow progress on Mumbai attacks, what would you be calling this? Mumbai attacks were carried out on civilian establishments. Our military has to be careful to avoid hostage situations. Also there were multiple locations which were attacked. But here a key military installation is attacked and your military is still fighting albeit slowly.



I would call it what it is - treachery and incompetence


----------



## Abu Basit

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Go troll somewhere else Indian.



my suggestion to the forum management is to lock the indians in the section called "indian defence".


----------



## redrj

Glorious Resolve said:


> wow so many new indian **** holes registering just to derail this thread- where are the moderators when we need one-


 
Unfortunately Some ******** don't know abt freedom of expression


----------



## DarK-LorD

Abu Basit said:


> my suggestion to the forum management is to lock the indians in the section called "indian defence".



We constitute the majority of traffic here.


----------



## Avatar

TechMan said:


> I think it's time we realize who our real enemy is. If we take a look at who benefits most from this incident then it will be clear that* our real enemy are USA-India-Israel.* And that TTP is definitely created/funded by CIA/Raw/Mosad.

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## Last Hope

Glorious Resolve said:


> wow so many new indian **** holes registering just to derail this thread- where are the moderators when we need one-


 
We need more than one. I just talked to T-Faz yesterday about registeration of Bhartis.
Make me the mod, and ill turn half this thread pink and block IPs of trolls plus no more registeration from India.

On topic:
Where are APCs? Send in few Al-Khalids to, cause of their armour and automatic machine guns.
I never heard any SSG presense. Plus, the AAJ reportes they are foreign and maybe BLACKWATER.

And MashAllah, they attack near Nukes, so that we are stripped from it. What the hell are the army reserves doing? 
Mobilize the 260,000 personnel to sensitive locations *now* or else expect this from USA. Terrorists terrorising Pakistan to label us as a terrorist Nation.


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## Ahmad

Abu Basit said:


> my suggestion to the forum management is to lock the indians in the section called "indian defence".


 
i am sure admins wont kill the forum following your advice. let everybody talk about everything they want.

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## mjnaushad

Why would TTP attack a naval base.... Whats their interest in fighting the Navy..... Specially targeting P3 Orions....


----------



## President Camacho

I really hope it was not the one displayed on PDF...






It's too beautiful to be destroyed


----------



## DarK-LorD

Last Hope said:


> We need more than one. I just talked to T-Faz yesterday about registeration of Bhartis.
> Make me the mod, and ill turn half this thread pink and block IPs of trolls plus no more registeration from India.
> 
> On topic:
> Where are APCs? Send in few Al-Khalids to, cause of their armour and automatic machine guns.
> I never heard any SSG presense. Plus, the AAJ reportes they are foreign and maybe BLACKWATER.
> 
> And MashAllah, they attack near Nukes, so that we are stripped from it. What the hell are the army reserves doing?
> Mobilize the 260,000 personnel to sensitive locations *now* or else expect this from USA. Terrorists terrorising Pakistan to label us as a terrorist Nation.



U want to cause internet traffic loss to PDF.


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## Devil Soul

Rehman Malik will be briefing the media shortly ....


----------



## Huda

Last Hope said:


> We need more than one. I just talked to T-Faz yesterday about registeration of Bhartis.
> *Make me the mod*, and ill turn half this thread pink and block IPs of trolls plus no more registeration from India.


  

aur ye Indians ko ban krne ka kaam (pink) JAna subse acha kr sakti hai


----------



## Rafael

rash2k2 said:


> I was fun hearing p****es calling others as p****es . Lol man leave him else he will bite you to death.


 
Looks like some pimps are trying to make their masters happy. Blody *ing hindu.. Piss drinker


----------



## Che Guevara

PNS Mehran operation over


----------



## muse

mjnaushad said:


> Why would TTP attack a naval base.... Whats their interest in fighting the Navy..... Specially targeting P3 Orions....



Theirinterest is in creating an impression that Pakistan cannot safe guard it's nuclear stockpile - to raise the level of concern in the world, and by dong so, create even more of a divergence between Pakistan and the world, to isolate Pakistan further, to weaken it before they move in for the kill

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## Devil Soul

the main operation is over... search operation is underway


----------



## Safriz

Last Hope said:


> We need more than one. I just talked to T-Faz yesterday about registeration of Bhartis.
> Make me the mod, and ill turn half this thread pink and block IPs of trolls plus no more registeration from India.
> 
> On topic:
> Where are APCs? Send in few Al-Khalids to, cause of their armour and automatic machine guns.
> I never heard any SSG presense. Plus, the AAJ reportes they are foreign and maybe BLACKWATER.
> 
> And MashAllah, *they attack near Nukes*, so that we are stripped from it. What the hell are the army reserves doing?
> Mobilize the 260,000 personnel to sensitive locations *now* or else expect this from USA. Terrorists terrorising Pakistan to label us as a terrorist Nation.



The airbase attacked last night is very near to built up areas and too risky to keep nuclear weapons in there....


----------



## Markus

2 P3-C's damaged at naval base.

Whats the damage at the airbase ?


----------



## Patriot

LOL Here comes RAW-Mossad-CIA theory again with blackwater in the mix.Yes foreign countries are supporting this scum and it is your favorite arbi countries like SA/UAE.

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## jahangeer yousaf

Casino said:


> PNS Mehran operation over


 
when where did you get the news?


----------



## Avatar

raheel1 said:


> Looks like some pimps are trying to make their masters happy. Blody *ing hindu.. Piss drinker


 
Wow. Somebody really needs to vent their frustration.


----------



## AstanoshKhan

I am switching channels to see if BBC, Fox or CNN will show what's going on in Karachi but there has been no update. I wonder what would have happened if it was India? We have no representatives anywhere and there is no one to defend us. Why isn't our media playing an important role to show our verdict to international media? Where is our democratic government?


----------



## salmakh84

Haha. This is a typical TALIBAN type attack. A bunch of fidayees (or terrorist as you may call them) have attacked non civilian (army/navy etc) installation and are fighting to their death.

Its very brave of them! When you (pakistan) starts an operation against the mujahids and help americans in killing them in afghanistan/pakistan, you should be prepared for retaliation

Latest news: Siege still going on. 14 pakistani men confirmed dead. 4 "terrorists" reportedly blow themselves up and 4 captured (not confirmed by official forces)


----------



## Ahmad

mjnaushad said:


> Why would TTP attack a naval base.... Whats their interest in fighting the Navy..... Specially targeting P3 Orions....


 
they simply want to bring damages to PA, no matter what the damage is. I am sure they will get something out of it, in terms of moral boost and also bringing damage to pakistan base/equipment/etc which will need money to bring it back to its original conditin.


----------



## DarK-LorD

raheel1 said:


> Looks like some pimps are trying to make their masters happy. Blody *ing hindu.. Piss drinker



Lol is the last word the only slang you know?You can continue,I can understand your condition now.


----------



## ambivalence

redrj said:


> Unfortunately Some ******** don't know abt freedom of expression



Theres a difference between freedom of expression and just blabbering on like a baboon. its their house, thus their rules, you don't like it, press ALT+F4. good day.


----------



## Pioneerfirst

mjnaushad said:


> Why would TTP attack a naval base.... Whats their interest in fighting the Navy..... Specially targeting P3 Orions....



They will harm anything they find related to Pakistan Forces.They have killed innocent women and children so attacking air craft is not surprise at all.
They want to cut Pakistan from international community.Then they will have the same situation as Afghanistan.


----------



## Rafael

Avatar said:


> Wow. Somebody really needs to vent their frustration.


 
Wow somebody really needs to get a life.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Black Widow

TechMan said:


> I think it's time we realize who our real enemy is. If we take a look at who benefits most from this incident then it will be clear that our real enemy are USA-India-Israel. And that TTP is definitely created/funded by CIA/Raw/Mosad.
> 
> Let's see:
> 
> 1. It is on record that there are hundreds of CIA contractors, Black Water agents and other staff working in Pakistan but I don't remember TTP ever attacked them. I wonder why? I mean if there enemy number 1 is USA and they attack Pakistan because they say Pakistan is supporting USA in WOT then why they have never attacked primary target!? Some of those Blackwater and CIA personnels are already known and their location is also somewhat known as we read in newspaper from time to time but why no attack on them by TTP in all these years?
> And if I remember correctly they have killed some Chinese civilians too but not US civilians!?
> 
> 2. Was PC-3 Orion being used for surveillance against TTP? Who gets most benefit from there destruction?
> 
> 3. USA has been saying all along that Pakistan nukes are in danger. So an attack on Naval base with aircrafts destroyed, they will use it as an excuse to spew more venom against Pakistan. Isn't it so convenient that the TTP is there to help USA's stance by attacking a military base?
> 
> 4. You have to understand that Pakistan is in great danger. People say that our nukes are pretty safe, there are codes and protocol to follow bla bla bla and they can't be stolen or used without permission. Well people also used to say that a military base is a high security zone where terrorists can't do anything but look what happened? Do you see where it is going? They are upping the stakes one step at a time.
> First it was just civilians, then army personnels, suicide bombings, attack on forces buses and caravans, attack on GHQ and now attack on naval base with 2,3 aircrafts destroyed!


 
 Do Hell with conspiracy theories...


----------



## King123

Weather you Reply in *Bold *or _Italic _or _*Bold italic *_- Meaning Remain Same

LeT was behind Mumbai 26/11. ( No Need to find Reason from Delhi, Watch Court Case in Washington)

Let is whose sister organization, You must be aware. If One part harms with + in INDIA then Its Security Breach and when 2nd Part harms inside, then ?


Talking about NDTV ??? I am watching NDTV for last many hours Non-Stop. They are showing Live Telecast of Express 24x7. All Pakistani Media coming on NDTV. and who is Speaking on NDTV ?? All Pakistani Politicians, Army men, Journalist of Pakistan. (100% Speakers are from Pakistan) you should watch Express 24x7 to know what they are saying themselves to know more about NDTV.. 

India's Biggest threat is AQ, Taliban, LeT and not Pakistani people. Everyone should Unite to Fight Against Terrorism. A Peaceful Earth is good for everyone. 

Few Chinese People are posting Craps just for sake of Posting. I really doubt Its real Chinese  view, Last year i was in HongKong for 8 months and I met many many Chinese people and Today i have more Chinese Friends than any Pakistani friend here. In real world, I Never found a Single Chinese person anywhere in world who even said any evil things about India. Chinese People are really good and focus only their life rather than useless war. Chinese people really Like India and So Indian. Forgot about War between these 2 countries, Both will be Very Good Friend in Next few years. This Forum should be considered as Posting 5 Personal Views of Chinese and not Reality of Billion of Chinese People 

My personal View is that there will be No War among India, China, Pakistan, even U.S. or Europe or Russia at least in 10 Years. All Politicians of Pakistan and India is Just *USING WAR WORDS* to Hide its inefficiency. War will only be played on Forums not in Reality ;-)

I Hope Pakistani will able to fight and End this Terrorism soon. And All 4 Should be Hanged till Death after revealing Their Locations of all TTE or AQ or whatever is.


Consider me as Neutral Person. I am never biased.


----------



## Huda

Patriot said:


> LOL Here comes RAW-Mossad-CIA theory again with blackwater in the mix.


 
like newton's law har situation aur har syllabus may parhna hai


----------



## Pfpilot

Always overshadowed by the Air Force, the Navy wanted to prove it can outshine the air force in sheer incompetence...god help this nation, because most Pakistanis are too busy blaming every foreign force imaginable...instead of accepting the war is now very much for the very existence of the Pakistan we know and love...root out the extremist elements or things will only get worse...their ability to wage war is ever increasing while our armed forces crumble under the pressure of fighting all over the nation...the terrorists have endless impressionable youth to pick from.
We made this mess by supporting these elements and now they are completely out of hand...we must take responsibility and go after them, and not in the half hearted manner seen so far.


----------



## Rafael

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Lol is the last word the only slang you know?You can continue,I can understand your condition now.


 
what what? you're not making sense. Perhaps too much vodka, no?


----------



## Last Hope

Reports saying BLACKWATER maybe a part of this..


----------



## Devil Soul

Naval Chief will be talking to media shortly


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## ejaz007

great said:


> For all those who criticized Indian security forces for slow progress on Mumbai attacks, what would you be calling this? Mumbai attacks were carried out on civilian establishments. Our military has to be careful to avoid hostage situations. Also there were multiple locations which were attacked. But here a key military installation is attacked and your military is still fighting albeit slowly.


 
The two situations can not be compared. It took your elite commandos three days to clear the terrorists and a number of hostages were killed with reports suggesting that some died of commandos firing. Israel protested strongly the way situation was handled. There were three buildings mainly involved where action too place.

In our case the base contains military assets that need to be saved and therefore the action is slow also the area is approximately 10 kilometers in size and securing such a area takes time. It is still day one.


----------



## Patriot

salmakh84 said:


> Haha. This is a typical TALIBAN type attack. A bunch of fidayees (or terrorist as you may call them) have attacked non civilian (army/navy etc) installation and are fighting to their death.
> 
> Its very brave of them! When you (pakistan) starts an operation against the mujahids and help americans in killing them in afghanistan/pakistan, you should be prepared for retaliation
> 
> Latest news: Siege still going on. 14 pakistani men confirmed dead. 4 "terrorists" reportedly blow themselves up and 4 captured (not confirmed by official forces)


 Don't worry - One day scums like you will be captured and torched to hell and then killed.You will of course get a danda up your a$$ in due time.I do hope moderators take the time to report your IP to concerned authorities.Although i don't think that would be of much use as your intentions appear suicidal and you may blow yourself up one day.

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## Guest01

raheel1 said:


> Looks like some pimps are trying to make their masters happy. Blody *ing hindu.. Piss drinker


 You are not thinking right. I am sad for your situation. Let us hope that there are no more planes burnt and no more lives lost in this terrorist incident. Pakistani forces lives should not be lost anymore. We can talk about the bad things in india and the religion and the drinking habits later. Once again, sorry for your situation and sympathies are with you.


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## Patriot

This site is infested by Jihadi scums.


----------



## DarK-LorD

raheel1 said:


> what what? you're not making sense. Perhaps too much vodka, no?



No,I don't like Strong ones.I drink Beer mostly.


----------



## JonAsad

muse said:


> In the next attack - we should see a even more complex attack --- notice what Pakistani troops ride to the fight in - thin skin - it would be a damn shame if troops on the way to the fight were targeted by small IED or even one or two individuals taking a couple of shots along the route - an Afghan style rolling ambush - yes, that would be a shame especially in a urban environment


 
Thanks for giving them the brilliant idea think tank- are you one of them Islamistss?-


----------



## muse

Patriot said:


> LOL Here comes RAW-Mossad-CIA theory again with blackwater in the mix.


 

These people have zero credibility, every luney weird, and conspiratorial story is what they clutch to like a drowning man clutching at straws - but they are the propaganda brigade of the Islamist enemy, their job is to confuse, to obfuscate .


----------



## ejaz007

*A suspect outside PNS Mehran held *
Updated at: 1047 PST, Monday, May 23, 2011


KARACHI: A suspect from outside the PNS Mehran was taken into custody by the authorities this morning here, Geo News reported.

Sources said that one person named Majid was held from outside PNS Mehran, who was viewing through a telescope the operation underway in the PNS Mehran.

The police arresting the suspect shifted him to some unknown place. 

A suspect outside PNS Mehran held - GEO.tv


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## jha

great said:


> For all those who criticized Indian security forces for slow progress on Mumbai attacks, what would you be calling this? Mumbai attacks were carried out on civilian establishments. Our military has to be careful to avoid hostage situations. Also there were multiple locations which were attacked. But here a key military installation is attacked and your military is still fighting albeit slowly.



Indian Security Force response was also Pathetic.. Infact whole establishment's attack was pathetic including Media..
10 intruders killed 176 civilians..Many lives could have been saved if the forces were properly equipped and the terrorists would have been killed...


----------



## DarK-LorD

Last Hope said:


> Reports saying BLACKWATER maybe a part of this..



Yah,The Sewage drains have Blackwater,the pipes might leaked in an explosion.


----------



## Devil Soul




----------



## muse

Glorious Resolve said:


> Thanks for giving them the brilliant idea think tank- are you one of them Islamistss?-



Curious that you would think that the army should not take care - after all do you not care if this army learns?

And does the Islamist enemy need my help? Really?


----------



## Devil Soul

ejaz007 said:


> *A suspect outside PNS Mehran held *
> Updated at: 1047 PST, Monday, May 23, 2011
> 
> 
> KARACHI: A suspect from outside the PNS Mehran was taken into custody by the authorities this morning here, Geo News reported.
> 
> Sources said that one person named Majid was held from outside PNS Mehran, who was viewing through a telescope the operation underway in the PNS Mehran.
> 
> The police arresting the suspect shifted him to some unknown place.
> 
> A suspect outside PNS Mehran held - GEO.tv


----------



## Hammy007

great said:


> For all those who criticized Indian security forces for slow progress on Mumbai attacks, what would you be calling this? Mumbai attacks were carried out on civilian establishments. Our military has to be careful to avoid hostage situations. Also there were multiple locations which were attacked. But here a key military installation is attacked and your military is still fighting albeit slowly.


 
the terrorists didnt come through the fishing boat from the sea, please dont in anyway compare it to mumbai attacks, these terrorists were professional well trained and they knew well about this military area


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## mjnaushad

But the question remains..... Why would they do such a big ops to destroy P3s..... ??? It really sound fishy .... We all know P3 are no threat to taliban....


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## Pioneerfirst

raheel1 said:


> Looks like some pimps are trying to make their masters happy. Blody *ing hindu.. Piss drinker


 

Many Pakistani are too talking irelevant,

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## JonAsad

Patriot said:


> LOL Here comes RAW-Mossad-CIA theory again with blackwater in the mix.Yes foreign countries are supporting this scum and it is your favorite arbi countries like SA/UAE.


 
If all depends upon word of mouths- then let me say- no its not some arbi country- they are from some nangi countries like USA- Norway


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## Pfpilot

Well the jihadi element on this forum is increasing much like the ever increasing portion of the Pakistani population...we can only ignore it for so long...these elements exist and their sympathy towards these terrorists allows the sort of people who broke into PNS Mehran to carry on their preparations in the open and have no worry about being caught.

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## desioptimist

It is over, BBC says so. Not sure what local channels are saying. Can anybody post that?


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## Last Hope

Hammy007 said:


> the terrorists didnt come through the fishing boat from the sea


I guess the terrorists from that side are too scared to encounter our forces..or are too poor to buy a fishing boat.


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## AstanoshKhan

Last Hope said:


> Reports saying BLACKWATER maybe a part of this..


 
Very interesting, yes it was being said on Aaj news by someone they were interviewing, that the Pakistani navy is now deaf and blind due to the loss of these 2 aircraft in terms of resisting electronic warfare and enemy submarines (as they have lost the ability to detect them early) where he said that RAW could be behind it. I didn't catch his name but he was on only a few minutes ago.

A very big loss indeed. it looks like their trying to soften up Pakistan's defenses or rather destroying it before the actual overt invasion... why our own media is mum on the whole situation? and for the diversion, they come up with the news of Mullah Omar's death.

Allah SWT knows best


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## kingkobra

jha said:


> Indian Security Force response was also Pathetic.. Infact whole establishment's attack was pathetic including Media..
> 10 intruders killed 176 civilians..Many lives could have been saved if the forces were properly equipped and the terrorists would have been killed...


 
we never had such attack before 21/11..and we all know about our police force equipments....i hope we have learned good lesson about handling such situations now...


----------



## ramu

Hammy007 said:


> the terrorists didnt come through the fishing boat from the sea, please dont in anyway compare it to mumbai attacks, these terrorists were professional well trained and they knew well about this military area


 
does it really matter ? High time Pakistan realise that its defence forces need a overhaul.


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## Omar1984

Devil Soul said:


>



He looks like he's from the Makrani tribe in Balochistan Province.

Is BLA also involved in this attack?


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## Ahmad

There are so many conspiracy theorists here and there in real world, if one they something really happens and their words might be true, nobody will believe them because of their past conspiracy theories. it is like the story of shepherd and the wolf.


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## Hammy007

if 5 are dead and 7 captured, what happened to 9-10 terrorists???, as told there were 20-22 terrorists

did they escape??


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## Devil Soul




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## Peregrine

*A humble request to all the brainiacs around here please remove your thinking caps and quit posting your subjective theories about security in Pakistan and let the average users follow up the news*


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## Hammy007

Ahmad said:


> There are so many conspiracy theorists here and there in real world, if one they something really happens and their words might be true, nobody will believe them because of their past conspiracy theories. it is like the story of shepherd and the wolf.


 
the terrorists are foreigners and seem most probably afghans


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## desioptimist

Last Hope said:


> I guess the terrorists from that side are too scared to encounter our forces..or are too poor to buy a fishing boat.


 
Pakistani terrorists did not come on their own. They got adequate support from ISI. And it is difficult to defend the whole coast compared to military installations.


----------



## DarK-LorD

Omar1984 said:


> He looks like he's from the Makrani tribe in Balochistan Province.
> 
> Is BLA also involved in this attack?



Let's put a rest to conspiracy theory.
Several News channel reporting that ops are over.


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## Devil Soul

Omar1984 said:


> He looks like he's from the Makrani tribe in Balochistan Province.
> 
> Is BLA also involved in this attack?


 
may be logistics support


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## Pioneerfirst

What about the earlier 3:00 am news about the terrorist being french and turkish, equipted with night vision goggles.


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## mastaan

This is very very unfortunate... No one should lose sons of their soil (Read, soldiers) to these lunatics... RIP to the brave soldiers, who died defending their country against these lunatics... 

Who do they think will support them in Pakistan, if all they are doing is destroying national assets of Pakistan... 

I hope some will rise above the conpiracy theories and really demand the government to introspect that if their Military bases are not secure, then what will happen to civilian population? and how will the confidence come back? With what right will they go back to civilians to beg for their vote again? IMHO I do think that it is high time of a fresh leadership face in Pakistan... A new fresh guy, with fresh perspective and a new outlook to take Pakistan to her potential glory in an inclusive way...


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## Riz

jha said:


> Indian Security Force response was also Pathetic.. Infact whole establishment's attack was pathetic including Media..
> 10 intruders killed 176 civilians..Many lives could have been saved if the forces were properly equipped and the terrorists would have been killed...


 
Mombai attack was different as the intruder was came in private uniforms, the problem here was that the terrorist was in full army uniform that will make hard for the security forces find the enemy thats why these type of operations took time..........


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## salmakh84

Operation over: Media sources

From a comment on my facebook page: Allah says "To not take Jews and Christians as Auliya (Patrons and allies) and whososver does is AMONGST THEM...". Imam Ibn taimiyya said "if you find me in the ranks of enemy then KILL ME".. Pakistan should not be your God Mr. Haider Ali because you are giving precedence to Indians and Israelis to do the same. If Pakistan goes against the Deen of Allah following US, India or Israel, then Pakistan must be taught a lesson to prevent any harm coming from it. Mere existence of Pakistan on earth is not a guarantee for implementation of Islam. Pakistan is tool promised to promote and implement Islam, it has no intrinsic value of itself. If it becomes part of Kufr war then it is to be fought in similar manner as Israel and US.

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## Skull and Bones

What's the price of new P-3C Orion?


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## Leader

Devil Soul said:


> may be logistics support


 
views are getting stupider by every new post...


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## Hammy007

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Let's put a rest to conspiracy theory.
> Several News channel reporting that ops are over.


 
he is talking about facts you dumbhead

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## JonAsad

muse said:


> *Curious that you would think that the army should not take care* - *after all do you not care if this army learns?*
> 
> And does the Islamist enemy need my help? Really?


 
Curious- did you read what i wrote or you assumed that by looking at the flag?- 

If you have something you think can help the army pass it to some relevant guy on the forum instead of putting that in open- thats what i ment- but the flag seemed to obvious for the conclusions isn't it?


----------



## Pioneerfirst

Last Hope said:


> Reports saying BLACKWATER maybe a part of this..



These are our own people sucking our blood.
Even if blackwater is involved wat about our intellegence and security failure.


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## jha

kingkobra said:


> we never had such attack before 21/11..and we all know about our police force equipments....i hope we have learned good lesson about handling such situations now...


 
Yes.. Agree.. But that does not mean we should keep shielding the incompetency of our Bureaucracy..And should not call others incompetent especially in a time like this.. I am not pleased to say but some Indians here also disappoint me..


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## Ahmad

Hammy007 said:


> the terrorists are foreigners and seem most probably afghans


 
i wont be surprised by the way. our terrorists and yours have always collaborated with each other for 15 years now.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

The timing of this attack does raise some eyebrows.. Just in the past day or so Defence Minister requested Chinese assistance to build a Naval Port @ Gwadar.

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## Omar1984

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Let's put a rest to conspiracy theory.
> Several News channel reporting that ops are over.


 
Not a conspiracy theory.


*The banned Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan and Baloch separatists had claimed the responsibility of the attacks.*

Terrorists attack Navy airbase in Karachi, destroy three aircraft | Newspaper | DAWN.COM


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## Abu Basit

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> We constitute the majority of traffic here.



that's why we have too much pollution here.


----------



## muse

> If Pakistan goes against the Deen of Allah following US, India or Israel, then Pakistan must be taught a lesson to prevent any harm coming from it. Mere existence of Pakistan on earth is not a guarantee for implementation of Islam. Pakistan is tool promised to promote and implement Islam, it has no intrinsic value of itself. If it becomes part of Kufr war then it is to be fought in similar manner as Israel and US.



Priceless, absolutely priceless -- this Pakistan must be killed so a more islamic one can be crated -- but some Pakistanis still refuse to understand

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## jha

riz1978 said:


> Mombai attack was different as the intruder was came in private uniforms, the problem here was that the terrorist was in full army uniform that will make hard for the security forces find the enemy thats why these type of operations took time..........


 
Yes..Only Similarity is that the terrorists caught the intelligence agencies sleeping.. I have deepest sympathy to the affected one as i for one know how it feels..


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## Hammy007

Ahmad said:


> i wont be surprised by the way. our terrorists and yours have always collaborated with each other for 15 years now.


 
im talking about the thing that it maybe from the tajik, uzbek northern alliance of afghanistan

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## Leader

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The timing of this attack does raise some eyebrows.. Just in the past day or so Defence Minister requested Chinese assistance to build a Naval Port @ Gwadar.


 
good point... I think the real story has not come yet, not even in bits and pieces, Kamran khan said we know nothing by now, whats happening...


----------



## President Camacho

Omar1984 said:


> Not a conspiracy theory.
> 
> 
> *The banned Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan and Baloch separatists had claimed the responsibility of the attacks.*
> 
> Terrorists attack Navy airbase in Karachi, destroy three aircraft | Newspaper | DAWN.COM


 
Collectively?


----------



## Ahmad

Hammy007 said:


> im talking about the thing that it maybe from the tajik, uzbek northern alliance of afghanistan


 
They dont do suicide bombing, the case of uzbek terrorists from uzbekistan is different from the above mentioned.

btw, the ttp have been their number one enemy, so they wont join their forces with them.


----------



## Leader

muse said:


> Priceless, absolutely priceless -- this Pakistan must be killed so a more islamic one can be crated -- but some Pakistanis still refuse to understand


 
it would be better than fascist scum bags taking over... no ?


----------



## Pioneerfirst

salmakh84 said:


> Operation over: Media sources
> 
> From a comment on my facebook page: Allah says "To not take Jews and Christians as Auliya (Patrons and allies) and whososver does is AMONGST THEM...". Imam Ibn taimiyya said "if you find me in the ranks of enemy then KILL ME".. Pakistan should not be your God Mr. Haider Ali because you are giving precedence to Indians and Israelis to do the same. If Pakistan goes against the Deen of Allah following US, India or Israel, then Pakistan must be taught a lesson to prevent any harm coming from it. Mere existence of Pakistan on earth is not a guarantee for implementation of Islam. Pakistan is tool promised to promote and implement Islam, it has no intrinsic value of itself. If it becomes part of Kufr war then it is to be fought in similar manner as Israel and US.


 
Rightnow Taliban are doing work for enemies of Pakistan so we should kill all of them without thinking and anyone supporting them should have the samw results.

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## Hammy007

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The timing of this attack does raise some eyebrows.. Just in the past day or so Defence Minister requested Chinese assistance to build a Naval Port @ Gwadar.


 
even more so, talibans dont seem to gain much from these naval attacks


----------



## kingkobra

jha said:


> Yes.. Agree.. But that does not mean we should keep shielding the incompetency of our Bureaucracy..And should not call others incompetent especially in a time like this.. I am not pleased to say but some Indians here also disappoint me..


 
yes they disappoint me too but i know that there are pakistani members who understand that immaturity does not belong to particular nationality...


----------



## Omar1984

Patanjali said:


> Collectively?


 
Yes. TTP and BLA have a common enemy and that is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


----------



## Hammy007

Ahmad said:


> They dont do suicide bombing, the case of uzbek terrorists from uzbekistan is different from the above mentioned.


 
exactly....................


----------



## third eye

salmakh84 said:


> Operation over: Media sources
> 
> From a comment on my facebook page: Allah says "To not take Jews and Christians as Auliya (Patrons and allies) and whososver does is AMONGST THEM...". Imam Ibn taimiyya said "if you find me in the ranks of enemy then KILL ME".. Pakistan should not be your God Mr. Haider Ali because you are giving precedence to Indians and Israelis to do the same. If Pakistan goes against the Deen of Allah following US, India or Israel, then Pakistan must be taught a lesson to prevent any harm coming from it. Mere existence of Pakistan on earth is not a guarantee for implementation of Islam. Pakistan is tool promised to promote and implement Islam, it has no intrinsic value of itself. If it becomes part of Kufr war then it is to be fought in similar manner as Israel and US.


 
What logic 

Here a nation is almost tearing itself apart and persons are suggesting of teaching it a lesson !


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## Last Hope

I hope the ones caught are grilled and toasted until they accept tha Bharti men are behind the attack.

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## Kompromat

If they have initiated this attack during the night it means that they have night vision equipment - there is no other way they could have had this level of success in this attack.


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## Ahmad

Hammy007 said:


> exactly....................


 
but in this attack there have been suicide bombers if i am not mistaken?


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## Leader

third eye said:


> What logic
> 
> Here a nation is almost tearing itself apart and persons are suggesting of teaching it a lesson !


 
how exactly is it tearing apart, bhartiyay ?


----------



## President Camacho

salmakh84 said:


> Operation over: Media sources
> 
> From a comment on my facebook page: Allah says "To not take Jews and Christians as Auliya (Patrons and allies) and whososver does is AMONGST THEM...". Imam Ibn taimiyya said "if you find me in the ranks of enemy then KILL ME".. Pakistan should not be your God Mr. Haider Ali because you are giving precedence to Indians and Israelis to do the same. If Pakistan goes against the Deen of Allah following US, India or Israel, then Pakistan must be taught a lesson to prevent any harm coming from it. Mere existence of Pakistan on earth is not a guarantee for implementation of Islam. Pakistan is tool promised to promote and implement Islam, it has no intrinsic value of itself. If it becomes part of Kufr war then it is to be fought in similar manner as Israel and US.


 
Are you really in the US? 

I better start calling you DG - Danger Girl !!!


----------



## Hammy007

Ahmad said:


> but in this attack there have been suicide bombers if i am not mistaken?


 
they have nt done suicide attacks, most of them have been caught


----------



## muse

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The timing of this attack does raise some eyebrows.. Just in the past day or so Defence Minister requested Chinese assistance to build a Naval Port @ Gwadar.


 

This a very curious statement, especially coming from you -- are you suggesting that a operation this complex can just be thrown together in a couple of days, or even a couple of weeks??

Really curious coming from you


----------



## mjnaushad

Aeronaut said:


> If they have initiated this attack during the night it means that they have night vision equipment - there is no other way they could have had this level of success in this attack.


 
No man.... Its the TTP with one AK47.... Came all the way from waziristan .... Just to destroy our P3..... P3 was the biggest threat to TTP as P3 can detect TTP Submarines and can be used against TTPs electronic warfare....

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## IFB

I am sick of some of the comments made by members on both sides....this is not the thread to get even....this is a tragic event for the nation of pakistan and its soldiers have laid down their lives fighting these scumbags so let them RIP.

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## desioptimist

Last Hope said:


> I hope the ones caught are grilled and toasted until they accept tha Bharti men are behind the attack.


 
Even if it is not true, they should be tortured to tell what you want to hear?


----------



## Pioneerfirst

muse said:


> Priceless, absolutely priceless -- this Pakistan must be killed so a more islamic one can be crated -- but some Pakistanis still refuse to understand



We Pakistanis love our country and it is fully islamic.It is better than many*.If islam is to implemented then start it from ur home*,street then to city.You will not be stopped by anyone.
I do not Know why some people bring Islam every where.All going here rightnow is Islamic???
Have you any Islamic leader???
U may find Sunni,Shia,Bralvi,Dubandi each of them calling other as Kafir.

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## Last Hope

desioptimist said:


> Even if it is not true, they should be tortured to tell what you want to hear?


Yeap just like your side does.


----------



## Nav

great lost for Pakistan, pakistan Navy iz more week now,


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## Hammy007

mjnaushad said:


> No man.... Its the TTP with one AK47.... Came all the way from waziristan .... Just to destroy our P3..... P3 was the biggest threat to TTP as P3 can detect TTP Submarines and can be used against TTPs electronic warfare....


 
and how much stupid of rehman malik to propagate american propaganda to claim all these were talibans when the operation was still going on


----------



## koushik

The terrorists first tried to possibly take over the Orions and it was armed but when they failed they blew it up.they even killed a few secuirity personnel.Pakistan should seriously think about somethng about Garuds.


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## Dhruv V Singh

I would rather have these terrorists attack military bases than blow up innocent civilians

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## Ahmad

*Pakistani militants hit Karachi naval base in Bin Laden revenge attackPakistani Taliban claims responsibility as insurgents kill at least 12 people and destroy aircraft including US-made spy plane*

Pakistani militants hit Karachi naval base in Bin Laden revenge attack | World news | guardian.co.uk


----------



## S.M.R

ejaz007 said:


> *A suspect outside PNS Mehran held *
> Updated at: 1047 PST, Monday, May 23, 2011
> 
> 
> KARACHI: A suspect from outside the PNS Mehran was taken into custody by the authorities this morning here, Geo News reported.
> 
> Sources said that one person named Majid was held from outside PNS Mehran, who was viewing through a telescope the operation underway in the PNS Mehran.
> 
> The police arresting the suspect shifted him to some unknown place.
> 
> A suspect outside PNS Mehran held - GEO.tv


 
Aaaaaah, It would have been really appreciating, if the same was done before attacks.0

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## Pioneerfirst

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> The timing of this attack does raise some eyebrows.. Just in the past day or so Defence Minister requested Chinese assistance to build a Naval Port @ Gwadar.


 
Do you think terrorist carried out attacks in oneday notice??? e.g equipment arrangement,know how of the area,finances,practices etc


----------



## Spring Onion

redrj said:


> Unfortunately Some ******** don't know abt freedom of expression


 
You and many like you from India just registered today and yesterday to spread waste/trash and stinking happiness over attacks in Pakistan.

so go and keep freedom of expression in your country and start dancing in same way over killing of indians just like you are doing here.


we all must report people like you

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## mjnaushad

Hammy007 said:


> and how much stupid of rehman malik to propagate american propaganda to claim all these were talibans when the operation was still going on


 
Its not RM's fault.... He must be missing his pink tie.


----------



## Hindustani

innocentboy said:


> Yes, attackers are similar, however its not gonna last for more than few hours. Although the number is 14 as compared to 10, but on the one side Pakistani Commandos are doing operation. Further, our media is responsible Media, it does not start shouting like Indian Media. Take a chill Pill.


 
Of course is media is reliable. That's why they made up the whole "US apologizes to pakistan for drone strikes" BS 

And not to mention the infamous *FAKE Wikileaks * report.


----------



## Moorkh

pakdefender said:


> The choice of targeting the P3 aircraft seems suspicious, especially when these aircraft are not being used against the terrorists and terrorists usually attack to inflict more casualties rather than spend time on blowing up anti-submarine aircrafts!


 
maybe it was a smart move. the orions are probably the costliest things the PN has which can be taken out with one RPG. the PAF and army bases are too well guarded for them. so the terrorists struck the PN where it would hurt the most.

Atleast loss of human life was minimal.


----------



## Omar1984

mjnaushad said:


> No man.... Its the TTP with one AK47.... Came all the way from waziristan .... Just to destroy our P3..... P3 was the biggest threat to TTP as P3 can detect TTP Submarines and can be used against TTPs electronic warfare....


 
Its interesting to note that the Orion P3 was the main target. Waziristan is no where near the sea. Why would TTP be threatened by the Navy and specifically the Orion P3 aircraft.


----------



## Devil Soul

Rangers & Police is leaving the Naval base .....


----------



## Moorkh

Omar1984 said:


> Our enemy within Pakistan are TTP, who only targets Pakistan and Pakistanis and were formed just a few years ago, after U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. The vast majority of people in North Waziristan are not harming Pakistan and Pakistanis, so why create more enemies within Pakistan that can make it a living nightmare for Pakistan.
> 
> TTP has weakened over the years, dont bring other people into the hands of TTP to make it stronger.
> 
> Pakistan should think about only its own startegic interests.
> 
> America and Pakistan sharing mutual interests is all B.S. America wants a stronger India and a weaker Pakistan and China. America would much rather have India as the next big power than China. And the breakup and turmoil of Pakistan would suit America's interests as it would stop Pakistan from being an energy corrider for China.
> 
> *Why on earth would Taliban want to destroy the Pakistani navy who are active on the warm waters of the Arabian Sea and are no where near FATA.*


 
Why do you think the taliban will differentiate between one arm of the GoP from another

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## sid426

Jana said:


> You and many like you from India just registered today and yesterday to spread waste/trash and stinking happiness over attacks in Pakistan.
> 
> so go and keep freedom of expression in your country and start dancing in same way over killing of indians just like you are doing here.
> 
> 
> we all must report people like you


 
Ma'am it would be better if instead of wasting energy in India bashing, the Pakistanis should try to put their house in order.

We feel for you because we have gone through such an attack on 26/11.

We feel sorry for the martyrs and sincerely hope this Frankenstein monster should be destroyed as soon as possible.

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## Ahmad

KARACHI: Taliban militants assaulted the headquarters of Pakistans naval air force, battling on Monday security forces in the most brazen attack in the country since the killing of Osama bin Laden, killing 13 people, injuring 16 others and blowing up at least two military aircraft.

The dead include 11 navy officials and one Ranger, DawnNews reported.

Blasts rang out and helicopters hovered above the PNS Mehran base near Shahrah-e-Faisal almost 14 hours *after more than 20 Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) militants stormed the heavily guarded building with guns and grenades, blowing up at least two aircraft and casting doubt on the militarys ability to protect its installations*.

The Pakistan Taliban, which is allied with al Qaeda, said the attack was to avenge the al Qaeda leaders killing on May 2.

Bin Laden was shot dead by US special forces in a secret operation that Pakistan says breached its sovereignty.
*
It was the revenge of martyrdom of Osama bin Laden. It was the proof that we are still united and powerful, Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location.*

Trucks carrying military and paramilitary rangers streamed into the base in the southern city of Karachi in the morning, as security forces tried to end the siege.

Eight military men were killed in the assault that started at 10.30 pm on Sunday local time, a navy spokesman said.

A senior security official, who declined to be identified, said the militants had taken over a building in the base.

Another official stationed in the base said the militants had not taken any hostages, but added: *There is a chance that some terrorists have suicide belts or jackets.*

Sixteen military men were wounded in the attack, some reports said that at least three militants had been killed while trying to flee but nothing has been confirmed so far.

The base is 15 miles from the Masroor Air Base, Pakistans largest and a possible depot for nuclear weapons.

They were carrying guns, rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and hand grenades. They hit the aircraft with an RPG, Navy spokesman Commander Salman Ali said of the militants.

A spokesman said two P-3C Orion, maritime patrol aircraft, had been destroyed and that intermittent gunfire was continuing.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said earlier that the militants had attacked from the rear of the base. We have been able to confine them to one building and an operation is underway either to kill or capture them, he said.

Media reports said the attackers had made their way in through a sewer pipe but that was not confirmed. The militarys goal was to capture as many of the attackers alive as possible, television reported.

The attack evoked memories of an assault on Pakistans army headquarters in the city of Rawalpindi in 2009, and is a further embarrassment for the military, widely seen as the only properly functioning institution in Pakistan, in the wake of bin Ladens killing.

The military has come under intense pressure from the United States and its own people for failing to know that bin Laden had been living in a garrison town, north of the capital and near a top military academy, for years, and also for allowing five US helicopters to penetrate Pakistans airspace and kill him.

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/23/loud-explosion-heard-near-paf-museum.html


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## JonAsad

i dont think this attack is related to Chinese port@gawader news- such attacks cannot be initiated on such short notices- stashes of weapons ammunitions etc takes time to gather- they were practicing/ preparing maybe for months- its just a mere coincidence- the news and the attack-

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Lt. Syed Yasir Abbas died in this operation. His father is a Colonel (Retd.) and is marriage was due after 4 months. .


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## Pioneerfirst

Ahmad said:


> *Pakistani militants hit Karachi naval base in Bin Laden revenge attackPakistani Taliban claims responsibility as insurgents kill at least 12 people and destroy aircraft including US-made spy plane*
> 
> Pakistani militants hit Karachi naval base in Bin Laden revenge attack | World news | guardian.co.uk[/QUOTE
> 
> *I said it at 1:00 AM last night but some of our country men believe in conspiracy theory.Our people make everything related to US,India and Anti Islam.
> Now people who support terrorist morally should not forget it and join the hands with rest of the nation.*

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## great

ejaz007 said:


> The two situations can not be compared. It took your elite commandos three days to clear the terrorists and a number of hostages were killed *with reports suggesting that some died of commandos firing.* Israel protested strongly the way situation was handled. There were three buildings mainly involved where action too place.
> 
> In our case the base contains military assets that need to be saved and therefore the action is slow also the area is approximately 10 kilometers in size and securing such a area takes time. It is still day one.


 
Buddy it was entire Mumbai. Not some 10 kilometers. Indian commandos were worried that there could be hostages to undertake a major assault. And a big face palm for the bold part.

PS: Would you consider your civilians to be major assets than some military toys. What is wrong with you?


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## JonAsad

Last Hope said:


> I hope the ones caught are grilled and toasted until they accept tha Bharti men are behind the attack.


 
Lol- just like 26/11


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## Spring Onion

IFB said:


> I am sick of some of the comments made by members on both sides....this is not the thread to get even....this is a tragic event for the nation of pakistan and its soldiers have laid down their lives fighting these scumbags so let them RIP.


 
We are really sick of some Indians who register just the day any such incident and specially this one and they start such stupid BS.


when mumbai happened the mods banned many Pakistanis and warned that since indians are in high emotions so no offensive comments should be posted and here we see the bharatis are spreading BS and gleeing.

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## muse

SO why not block registration on the day some even t takes place?l

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## All-Green

Hammy007 said:


> even more so, talibans dont seem to gain much from these naval attacks


 
As opposed to gaining so much sympathy and respect by blowing up Pakistani men, women, children in shrines, mosques, markets and other public places?

The strategic implications of targeting a naval base can hold true in case of Taliban also since they want the military to be humiliated and want to isolate and polarize various segments of society even further.

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## Hammy007

Jana said:


> We are really sick of some Indians who register just the day any such incident and specially this one and they start such stupid BS.
> 
> 
> when mumbai happened the mods banned many Pakistanis and warned that since indians are in high emotions so no offensive comments should be posted and here we see the bharatis are spreading BS and gleeing.


 
look in indian forums, they are actually celebrating laughing as they sent the terrorists and they got their target


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## Abu Zolfiqar

I look forward to what these dirty scum reveal after we hook them up to a few high output car batteries....no such attacj can take place without outside support. Now it appears ttp a so called "islamist" terror group and bla an ethnocentric terrorist group which is known to receive material and other support from a certain nearby enemy nation. It really is time to take the gloves off and fight the way fights are supposed to be fought

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## Windjammer

Last night some witnesses were quoted as claiming that the attackers were of foreign appearance, there were reports in the media that a French and a Turkish nationals were captured equipped with NVG. The likes of TTP lay claims to anything and everything. This attack is not what meets the eye since the PN has little or no role in the so called WOT.
Salute to the brave warriors for laying down their lives in the line of duty.

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## wakapdf

Why hasnt anyone come out in the public and blame India for carrying out the attacks like they did for the mumbai attacks


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## mautkimaut

good idea..
There are many losers who came to make fun at Pakistan.

BTW RIP all the martyrs


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## Ajaxpaul

I think this attack was not about Killing for revenge...It was an attack for *Showing* Pak military what terrorists can do to them in their own backyard. A sensational attack always lower the morale of the armed forces as it gets highlighted in Media. Crush Them, show them that this attack only motivates the army ,navy and airforce to finish these terrorists off from the face of the earth.


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## Spring Onion

Moorkh said:


> maybe it was a smart move. the orions are probably the costliest things the PN has which can be taken out with one RPG. the PAF and army bases are too well guarded for them. so the terrorists struck the PN where it would hurt the most.
> 
> Atleast loss of human life was minimal.


 

Yes it was a smart move by terrorists and some most sophisticated highly informed and trained minds were behind this move because TTP 's uneducated rats do not know about what is P-3 C Orion and why it was important for Pakistan Navy. * neither Pak Navy was going to attack Taliban sailing their submarines in Mountains. *


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## great

jha said:


> Indian Security Force response was also Pathetic.. Infact whole establishment's attack was pathetic including Media..
> 10 intruders killed 176 civilians..Many lives could have been saved if the forces were properly equipped and the terrorists would have been killed...


 
Buddy give me a gun and a crowded place I can kill 176 people. Imagine a country like US couldn't save their civilians from a plane attack..a freaking plane attack. Its not so easy to stop them because we know nothing about them. It was in a hotel with suspected hostages. What would you want our military to do, to blast their way in and further kill our own civilians? I agree we were caught napping and its the only reason. There was an intelligence failure but I wouldn't agree our military failed.


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## Hammy007

All-Green said:


> As opposed to gaining so much sympathy and respect by blowing up Pakistani men, women, children in shrines, mosques, markets and other public places?
> 
> The strategic implications of targeting a naval base can hold true in case of Taliban also since they want the military to be humiliated and want to isolate and polarize various segments of society even further.


 
to attack a naval base and strategically destroy those planes, i dont think so, if you follow the news, the men were highly knowledgable and knew which planes to target, they probably have shaved beards, they were well trained and highly equiped, like night vision and latest automatic weapons


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## S.M.R

Hindustani said:


> Of course is media is reliable. That's why they made up the whole "US apologizes to pakistan for drone strikes" BS
> 
> And not to mention the infamous *FAKE Wikileaks * report.


 
Yeah very realiable media. Which by hook or by crook establishes every link to Pakistan, like see this video, which says Jalalabad is in Pakistan.


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## ares

mjnaushad said:


> But the question remains..... Why would they do such a big ops to destroy P3s..... ??? It really sound fishy .... We all know P3 are no threat to taliban....


 
To gain attention..kill a few people in FATA as they do every other day..hardly any body notices(even Pakistanis on this forum do not bother to comment anymore)..do something like this..where even though human losses are minimal..it creates world wide headlines.


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## Pioneerfirst

wakapdf said:


> Why hasnt anyone come out in the public and blame India for carrying out the attacks like they did for the mumbai attacks


 
Our people haven taken responsibility so why blame others???

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## Spring Onion

Hammy007 said:


> look in indian forums, they are actually celebrating laughing as they sent the terrorists and they got their target


 
The animals do celebrate killing of human.

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## mjnaushad

Geo just reported that no one was captured alive.... The last terrorist was caught by a ranger but he blew himself up.....The operation was slow because the priority was to capture them alive....Geo reported also said after destroying the P3 the terrorist knew where to go and they headed towards the block where *chinese* engineers are.....


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## Last Hope

I made this one for the memory of P-3C.

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## JonAsad

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> I look forward to what these dirty scum reveal after we hook them up to a few high output car batteries....no such attacj can take place without outside support. Now it appears ttp a so called "islamist" terror group and bla an ethnocentric terrorist group which is known to receive material and other support from a certain nearby enemy nation. It really is time to take the gloves off and fight the way fights are supposed to be fought


 
I hope this time they completely seal the hospital where they'll keep the injured terrorists- i dont want any Lahore incident to repeat here-

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## Nalwa

Windjammer said:


> Last night some witnesses were quoted as claiming that the attackers were of foreign appearance, there were reports in the media that a French and a Turkish nationals were captured equipped with NVG. The likes of TTP lay claims to anything and everything. This attack is not what meets the eye since the PN has little or no role in the so called WOT.
> Salute to the brave warriors for laying down their lives in the line of duty.


 
Ahh. More conspiracy theories. At least wait for the operation to be over and subsequent investigation to be completed before quoting eye-witness statements.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Hammy007 said:


> look in indian forums, they are actually celebrating laughing as they sent the terrorists and they got their target


 Its only natural that these bharti twits would do that...too bad we allow them to infest this forum. Some zapping and swatting would be in order

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## Major Sam

DUNYA NEWS: AT LAST OPERATION WAS OVER, NOW JUST SEARCH OPERATION IS GOING ON, 4 SUSPECT PERSONS ARE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY OUTSIDE FROM PNS MEHRAN................................

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## Omar1984

How many more Orion P-3C aircrafts does Pakistan have left.

According to wikipedia, only these countries in red have this valuable aircraft:


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## MumbaiIndians

S-2 said:


> For those here claiming Pakistan's issues lie with a government and military whom are puppets of America, allow me to disabuse yourselves of that notion.
> 
> Nothing could be further from the truth.
> 
> Your government and military have walked a fine line to keep a pipeline of money and material open during this war. Is it a war in which you'd be involved were that pipeline not open? Yes.
> 
> You became involved the day the Afghan taliban government stepped into your lands and set up their temporary abode among your tribal citizens, assuring their infection.
> 
> Now you've made war, to be sure. Both your citizens and soldiers have died fighting against Pakistanis. Not once, though, has your government or army done our bidding and made war upon the Afghan taliban upon your lands.
> 
> Congratulations...I suppose. Neither your army nor government have proved puppets of America no matter how corrupt or feckless they may seem to you. Trust we find them as you do. Whatever ends they serve those are not ours.
> 
> In holding out hope that these men will one day prove useful in Afghanistan you've imported the source of your own demise. In the process, your vaunted and precious sovereignty was rendered null and void long before the first PREDATOR appeared in your skies. Meanwhile men like Nek Mohammad, Baitullah & Hakimullah Mehsud, Mullah Faizullah, Hafiz Gul Bahadur, and Maulvi Nazir and their minions have learned closely the lessons imparted by the afghan taliban.
> 
> You've been at war, you are at war and you shall remain at war regardless of America's presence or money in your region.


 
It was USA+Saudi who planted Jehad philosophy in the region(for fight against Soviets). Don't blame Pakistan for it. Also, try to be humble when in debate. This arrogance doesn't suit you.


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## sid426

Jana said:


> The animals do celebrate killing of human.


 

Exactly, people who celebrate killing of innocents are animals. There were so many animals on this particular forum when Mumbai was targeted.


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## Spring Onion

muse said:


> SO why not block registration on the day some even t takes place?l


 
Yes that is a better option because those who come from both sides just to post trash and they very well know they will be banned but their aim is to have little fun and run back to their holes.


here its one sided affair where we see influx of bharatis getting into forum in case of such attacks and start gleeing


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## mautkimaut

innocentboy said:


> Yeah very realiable media. Which by hook or by crook establishes every link to Pakistan, like see this video, which says Jalalabad is in Pakistan.


 
jalalabad pakistan - Google Maps

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## Black Widow

wakapdf said:


> Why hasnt anyone come out in the public and blame India for carrying out the attacks like they did for the mumbai attacks


 


because we didn't do it... Bcoz every one knows who is doing it, Coz they (TTP) took the responsibility... Coz you are not in mood to use your mind...


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## JonAsad

Pioneerfirst said:


> Our people haven taken responsibility so why blame others???


 
Do you consider- that after the death of OBL- even for a gas cylinder explosion TTP or Al-Qaida will be happy to take credit for it?- Just to show that without OBL- they are still capable effective and terrorists?-

After all this is another angle - So no need for conclusions yet-


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## Omar1984

mjnaushad said:


> Geo just reported that no one was captured alive.... The last terrorist was caught by a ranger but he blew himself up.....The operation was slow because the priority was to capture them alive....Geo reported also said after destroying the P3 the terrorist knew where to go and they headed towards the block where *chinese* engineers are.....


 
I dont trust Geo. Dunya news reported some terrorists were caught alive.

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## wakapdf

I personally think now either India or US would tactically insert their seals using their submarines. We lost a great asset in this attack and are now vulnerable. I think something big is coming


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## pakdefender

Too early to say but latest developments about Gawader cannot be overlooked in connection with this incident


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## fawwaxs



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## Hindustani

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Its only natural that these bharti twits would do that...too bad we allow them to infest this forum. Some zapping and swatting would be in order


 
Lol calm down Abu, can't blame a whole nationality.

You people ain't angels either. Let's just leave it as that.

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## muse

> 4 SUSPECT PERSONS ARE TAKEN INTO CUSTODY OUTSIDE FROM PNS MEHRAN..



Can somebody please translate this -- the 4 persons in custody were picked up from outside of the base? is that what the statement means? -- Were they attackers?


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## sid426

wakapdf said:


> I personally think now either India or US would tactically insert their seals using their submarines. We lost a great asset in this attack and are now vulnerable. I think something big is coming


 
Don't worry, India is not a war mongering nation. We lay more emphasis on economic growth and development. We know that a war with Pakistan would lead to mayhem in both the nations. There are some issues which can be settled peacefully.

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## fawwaxs

Talking to Express 24/7, retired Air Commodore Jamal Hussain said security officials will not announce that operation is complete till they are absolutely certain the compound is secure.

Even if they suspect that one militant is at large, they will not announce that it is over, he said.

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## wakapdf

Yes we can blame a whole nationality like those idiots did after mumbai attacks


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## Chinese-Dragon

Hammy007 said:


> look in indian forums, they are actually celebrating laughing as they sent the terrorists and they got their target


 
Typical Indians.


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## S.M.R

Nalwa said:


> Ahh. More conspiracy theories. At least wait for the operation to be over and subsequent investigation to be completed before quoting eye-witness statements.


 
I hope you must have this during the mumbai attacks.

To you eye witnesses are conspiracy theorists? The man in your avatar looks like Sikh. is it a conspiracy theory as well?


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## Windjammer

Nalwa said:


> Ahh. More conspiracy theories. At least wait for the operation to be over and subsequent investigation to be completed before quoting eye-witness statements.


 
Yea, we should have a few teachers marching around with twelve years old shouting ant-India slogans much like what we witnessed while the firefight was still taking place in the Taj.


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## All-Green

Hammy007 said:


> to attack a naval base and strategically destroy those planes, i dont think so, if you follow the news, the men were highly knowledgable and knew which planes to target, they probably have shaved beards, they were well trained and highly equiped, like night vision and latest automatic weapons


 
Oh my good friend you are missing my point.

Investigate the ones you catch and apprehend the entire ring, but when TTP always boasts of such actions and has given recruits for such actions...then do not talk about what they have to gain from such high profile attacks.

They gain many dollars one way or another since it furthers their agenda to destabilize Pakistan while gaining more credibility for themselves as holy avengers smiting the sinful Pakistan which is not Islamic enough to survive.
I am just saying that whether TTP is an independent organization or acting as terror consultants inc. to some other organization...such attacks help increase their market value and enhances their brand, if you can call it that.

BTW, GHQ attack had TTP recruits in it and was also very well planned.
Brains behind the operation can be someone else but there is no denial that TTP is not actively involved in high profile attacks.


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## Omar1984

wakapdf said:


> I personally think now either India or US would tactically insert their seals using their submarines. We lost a great asset in this attack and are now vulnerable. I think something big is coming


 
According to Dawn news, 3 Orion aircrafts were blown up by terrorists. Pakistan originally had 4 Orion aircrafts.


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## Areesh

mjnaushad said:


> Geo just reported that no one was captured alive.... The last terrorist was caught by a ranger but he blew himself up.....The operation was slow because the priority was to capture them alive....Geo reported also said after destroying the P3 the terrorist knew where to go and they headed towards the block where *chinese* engineers are.....


 
No one captured alive.... Fu*k. Hamari investigation to shoru ho kar khatam hogayi.


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## Spring Onion

Pioneerfirst said:


> Our people haven taken responsibility so why blame others???


 
even if our people dont take responsibility its simply our own failure. blame your enemy for what??? its part of all enemies' strategy to damage the opponent but what is our strategy to counter that damage ??? NONE. we have no planned strategy for time being. saying security across country has been put red alert after every such incident is just a hogwash and pathetic

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## Peregrine

I am glad that the Erieye's were not stationed in Karachi.


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## JonAsad

fawwaxs said:


>


 
  Kill those MOFO

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## Areesh

I am expecting the same mitti pao attitude after this incident too. No proper investigation, no culprits, no persecutions.


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## sid426

My hunch is that there is definitely an Indian hand in this operation.

Though I am not a firm believer in their work ethics and competency level.

but somehow, everything points to India like:-

1) Attack on Orions. Only India benefits from it.

2) Dawn reports that Baloch insurgents and TTP have jointly claimed responsibility.

3) Karachi- A place where MQM has a stronghold.

4) Similarity with 26/11.

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## Spring Onion

muse said:


> Can somebody please translate this -- the 4 persons in custody were picked up from outside of the base? is that what the statement means? -- Were they attackers?


* 
Sir probably kaghazi typical police karwaee wherein they arrest every shabby looking person as suspect but you wont see they had ever picked up a well suited person sitting in BMw. *


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## salmakh84

Geo reports say ALL "terrorist" dead. 4 suspects captured from outside the base.

--

I don't understand why we have to drag india in this debate? Its a war between the Taliban and American Allies (aka Pakistan). Both sides killing each other... where does India come in? Yeah, the might get happy or take advantage of the situation, but ITS OUR DOING. We as Pakistani's should wake up and say bye bye to america and bye bye to afghanistan. be independant!


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## fatman17

this terrorist attack could not have taken place without 'insider' help. just like the GHQ attack, retired or serving NCO's/soldiers who had jahadist feelings have helped the terrorists in their planning and operation. the attack took place late on sunday night when there is 'mimimum' security (i dont know why but on week-ends the armed forces completely shut-down). there is very little traffic and the control-tower is also shut down. its high time that the peace-time SOPs are changed.

i am wondering if heads are going to roll on this one - from the base commander all the way to the top!!! - at least US$200m worth of equipment has been lost, not to mention the 'loss' of lives of the soldiers.

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## Hindustani

KARACHI: Pakistans navy says it appears to have regained control of a base that had been attacked and occupied by militants for more than 15 hours.

Spokesman Salman Ali said Monday commandos were still searching the sprawling facility in Karachi but that apparently there is no more militant resistance.

He says the navy would not release details on militant casualties until the base had been fully searched.

Taliban militants assaulted the headquarters of Pakistans naval air force, battling on Monday security forces in the most brazen attack in the country since the killing of Osama bin Laden, killing 13 people, injuring 16 others and blowing up at least two military aircraft.

The dead include 11 navy officials and one Ranger, DawnNews reported.

Blasts rang out and helicopters hovered above the PNS Mehran base near Shahrah-e-Faisal almost 14 hours after more than 20 Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) militants stormed the heavily guarded building with guns and grenades, blowing up at least two aircraft and casting doubt on the militarys ability to protect its installations.

The Pakistan Taliban, which is allied with al Qaeda, said the attack was to avenge the al Qaeda leaders killing on May 2.

Bin Laden was shot dead by US special forces in a secret operation that Pakistan says breached its sovereignty.

It was the revenge of martyrdom of Osama bin Laden. It was the proof that we are still united and powerful, Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location.

Trucks carrying military and paramilitary rangers streamed into the base in the southern city of Karachi in the morning, as security forces tried to end the siege.

A senior security official, who declined to be identified, said the militants had taken over a building in the base.

Another official stationed in the base said the militants had not taken any hostages, but added: There is a chance that some terrorists have suicide belts or jackets.

Sixteen military men were wounded in the attack, some reports said that at least three militants had been killed while trying to flee but nothing has been confirmed so far.

The base is 15 miles from the Masroor Air Base, Pakistans largest and a possible depot for nuclear weapons.

They were carrying guns, rocket-propelled grenades (RPG) and hand grenades. They hit the aircraft with an RPG, Navy spokesman Commander Salman Ali said of the militants.

A spokesman said two P-3C Orion, maritime patrol aircraft, had been destroyed and that intermittent gunfire was continuing.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said earlier that the militants had attacked from the rear of the base. We have been able to confine them to one building and an operation is underway either to kill or capture them, he said.

Media reports said the attackers had made their way in through a sewer pipe but that was not confirmed. The militarys goal was to capture as many of the attackers alive as possible, television reported.

The attack evoked memories of an assault on Pakistans army headquarters in the city of Rawalpindi in 2009, and is a further embarrassment for the military, widely seen as the only properly functioning institution in Pakistan, in the wake of bin Ladens killing.

The military has come under intense pressure from the United States and its own people for failing to know that bin Laden had been living in a garrison town, north of the capital and near a top military academy, for years, and also for allowing five US helicopters to penetrate Pakistans airspace and kill him.

Wave Of Bombings 

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani condemned the attack.

Such a cowardly act of terror could not deter the commitment of the government and people of Pakistan to fight terrorism, Gilani said in statement.

Pakistan has faced a wave of assaults over the last few years, many of them claimed by the Pakistani Taliban.

Others have been blamed on al Qaeda-linked militant groups once nurtured by the Pakistani military and which have since slipped out of control.

The Taliban have stepped up attacks since bin Ladens death, killing almost 80 people in a suicide bombing on a paramilitary academy and an assault on a US consular vehicle in Peshawar.

The TTP is led by Hakimullah Mehsud, whose fighters regularly clash with the army in the northwest. The group also claimed responsibility for a botched plot to bomb New Yorks Times Square last year.

The discovery that bin Laden was living in Abbottabad, has revived suspicions that militants may be receiving help from some people within the security establishment.

Washington sees Pakistan as a key, if difficult, ally essential to its attempts to root out militant forces in neighbouring Afghanistan.

We condemn the attack and our sympathies are with the families of those injured or killed, the White House said in a statement.

On April 28, suspected militants detonated a roadside bomb in Karachi, killing four members of the navy, the third attack on the navy in a week.


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## ambivalence

MumbaiIndians said:


> It was USA+Saudi who planted Jehad philosophy in the region(for fight against Soviets). Don't blame Pakistan for it. Also, try to be humble when in debate. This arrogance doesn't suit you.


 
i'm sorry but saying you guys had no hand in planting the jehadi bug in the people's mind is utter BS. True the US came to you as a way to give the Soviet Union "their Vietnam" but you guys could've said NO. instead, u chose to take what us Americans were offering. i'm not denying that the US was a party to all this, but just stating the fact that your then government headed by Zia ul Haq weighed the pros and the cons and decided to radicalize your country. it takes two to tango.

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## fawwaxs

13 killed, 16 injured,two P-3C Orion's and a maritime patrol aircraft destroyed 1 minute ago via Twitter for iPhone


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## Leader

I am going to list the places where I should not be, in the up coming days...


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## Spring Onion

sid426 said:


> My hunch is that there is definitely an Indian hand in this operation.
> 
> Though I am not a firm believer in their work ethics and competency level.
> 
> but somehow, everything points to India like:-
> 
> 1) Attack on Orions. Only India benefits from it.
> 
> 2) Dawn reports that Baloch insurgents and TTP have jointly claimed responsibility.
> 
> 3) Karachi- A place where MQM has a stronghold.
> 
> 4) Similarity with 26/11.


 
Even if the above all is true still the onus is on us. the aircraft we bought by spending a huge amount and were important enough that India was worried over its inclusion in Pakistan Navy. what we had done to avoid such massive well planned attacked ???


this is which is more concerning specially if the above is all true then it means our internal elements had joined hands with our enemy .

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## cheekybird

ambivalence said:


> i'm sorry but saying you guys had no hand in planting the jehadi bug in the people's mind is utter BS. True the US came to you as a way to give the Soviet Union "their Vietnam" but you guys could've said NO. instead, u chose to take what us Americans were offering. i'm not denying that the US was a party to all this, but just stating the fact that your then government headed by Zia ul Haq weighed the pros and the cons and decided to radicalize your country. it takes two to tango.


 
perfect timing for u to join pdf....huh

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## muse

A total of 4 P3 have been destroyed -- a loss of approximately $$200 million - How about those SSGN, great huh? I hope more and more Pakistanis are waking up from their stupor - Pakistan have a bloated and weak force structure, and in fact this force is more of a show force, because we can barely pay for their use - anyhow, now wait for the Op/Ed pieces praising the great job Kiyani, Pasha and the gang are doing and how this is not the right time for questions, and investigations


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## Hammy007

why geo is reporting that none of terrorists are alive while its claimed 7 are captured???

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## Pioneerfirst

Glorious Resolve said:


> Do you consider- that after the death of OBL- even for a gas cylinder explosion TTP or Al-Qaida will be happy to take credit for it?- Just to show that without OBL- they are still capable effective and terrorists?-
> 
> After all this is another angle - So no need for conclusions yet-


 
So why they take the responsibility.They did not take responsibility of Benazir killing?
This is same as still people dont belive that Al-Qaida did 9/11 stuff and claim the responsibility but many of our people denied.Proving Osama(their hero) as lier.
we should accept that safe havens of terrorism exist in our country,they may have some foreign support but 95% is done by our people.The sooner we accept it will be better for us.This thinking has stopped us making a national terror policy for last 10 yrs and terrorist have got so much strength to carry out sucg attacks.

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## Royan

fawwaxs said:


> 13 killed, 16 injured,*two P-3C Orion's and a maritime patrol aircraf*t destroyed 1 minute ago via Twitter for iPhone


 
Isn't P3c a Maritime patrol aircraft ??or was there other maritime patrol aircraft stationed there???


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## Hindustani

ambivalence said:


> i'm sorry but saying you guys had no hand in planting the jehadi bug in the people's mind is utter BS. True the US came to you as a way to give the Soviet Union "their Vietnam" but you guys could've said NO. instead, u chose to take what us Americans were offering. i'm not denying that the US was a party to all this, but just stating the fact that your then government headed by Zia ul Haq weighed the pros and the cons and decided to radicalize your country. it takes two to tango.


 
Dude he's an Indian. Zia was in pakistan..


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## Royan

muse said:


> *A total of 4 P3 have been destroyed* -- a loss of approximately $$200 million - How about those SSGN, great huh? I hope more and more Pakistanis are waking up from their stupor - Pakistan have a bloated and weak force structure, and in fact this force is more of a show force, because we can barely pay for their use - anyhow, now wait for the Op/Ed pieces praising the great job Kiyani, Pasha and the gang are doing and how this is not the right time for questions, and investigations


 
Muse link???


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## my name is arya

now what pakistan is waiting for while there own sankes are biting them 

hate and anger will destroy and nothing will comeout 

all pakistan memeber should think why they are playing in hand of army and isi 

pakistan as an nation should be storng not as an army power


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## AAtish

whether TTP did it or anyone else, thats not the issue..

The issue is, are we going to stay ignorant as always that Pakistan IS IN WAR? and when it is WAR, it doesn't matter who the opponent is, anyone raising arms against the country shall be taken out, INSIDER or OUTSIDER.. 

Political Parties need to throw down THEIR flags and raise PAKISTANI flag for once.. If they don't do it then i would prefer giving control back to Military, at least in their control, Pakistanis were living peacefully..

Kill every one who even "talks" against PAKISTAN!!!!! simple as that!!!.. If you are not a Patriot, You either need to get the fcuk out or get killed, two options.. thats it!!!!

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## ambivalence

cheekybird said:


> perfect timing for u to join pdf....huh



i actually joined a couple of weeks ago. I have some crude knowledge about aircrafts and wanted to be a part of the discussion. My last reply was in response to someone else's comment. if you feel i crossed my limits and fabricated facts, feel free to report it. i by no means meant any disrespect.


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## ramu

muse said:


> A total of* 4 P3 have been destroyed* -- a loss of approximately $$200 million - How about those SSGN, great huh? I hope more and more Pakistanis are waking up from their stupor - Pakistan have a bloated and weak force structure, and in fact this force is more of a show force, because we can barely pay for their use - anyhow, now wait for the Op/Ed pieces praising the great job Kiyani, Pasha and the gang are doing and how this is not the right time for questions, and investigations


 
link please


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## my name is arya

pakistan should follow the path of allah 

peace love brotherhood if they really want to save there nation future they have to understand policitan and army is just playing with them 

is there not a single leader who can lead a nation

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## Bang Galore

Hammy007 said:


> look in indian forums, they are actually celebrating laughing as they sent the terrorists and they got their target


 
Schadenfreude is an emotion that will always be present in such situations especially when many Indians feel that they have been the victims of Pakistani terrorists for so long & see such acts as deserved comeuppance for those who trained those terrorists. It is a bit like seeings dogs that have been trained to bite neighbours go rabid & start biting their masters. In some,the feeling of seeing karma catch up with the "terrorist masters" is tempered by the realisation that no matter how much the comeuppance was deserved ( in our view), there is nothing good that will come from having a rabid dog around. Today that rabid dog is focused on you, if not dealt with, at some point in the future that rabid dog or its offspring's will turn their attention elsewhere & we will be seen as a juicy target.

Believe me when I say that I & a most Indians would like nothing more than to see the scourge of terrorism being wiped out from our region. There however, must be a realisation that there are no useful rabid dogs; only those that haven't yet turned on you. The nature of such beasts is that they can never be your friends. The faster that realisation hits home, the better for Pakistan & indeed for everyone else including India.

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## Hammy007

the big question is how many have been captured alive?????????????????????????????????????


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## IceCold

sid426 said:


> Ma'am it would be better if instead of wasting energy in India bashing, the Pakistanis should try to put their house in order.
> 
> *We feel for you because we have gone through such an attack on 26/11.
> 
> We feel sorry for the martyrs and sincerely hope this Frankenstein monster should be destroyed as soon as possible*.



Shedding crocodile tears are we..........thanks but no thanks......save it.


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## S.M.R

ambivalence said:


> *i actually joined a couple of weeks ago*. I have some crude knowledge about aircrafts and wanted to be a part of the discussion. My last reply was in response to someone else's comment. if you feel i crossed my limits and fabricated facts, feel free to report it. i by no means meant any disrespect.


 
really, but your profile says you joined couple of YEARS ago. Join Date 05-17-2011.


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## wakapdf

@Bang Galore lets see how you react when karma catches up to you. You havent seen the wrath of our grey hounds yet


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## Leader

Hammy007 said:


> the big question is how many have been captured alive?????????????????????????????????????


 
the biggest answer is you wont get to know......................


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## bc040400065




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## wakapdf

@ambivalence so is trolling


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## Areesh

Well whatever. A great victory for the enemies of Pakistan and another failure for our military, intelligence and govt. The WOT costs us another 200million$. Huh. IS someone watching all this. Is their anybody in this country of 180 million that what the hell is going in here. Or are we bound to doom now. At least Kayani, pasha, zardari, gillani etc etc tell us that we do have a chance in future or is total destruction waiting us.


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## muse

Royan and Ramu

(Law Firm?)

From preivious posts 2 ships were reported completely destroyed and 2 unsalvageable and so I concluded total of 4 p3 destroyed


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## Porus

Hammy007 said:


> look in indian forums, they are actually celebrating laughing* as they sent the terrorists and they got their target*


 

Baseless allegations unless one or two "kasabs" have been captured alive and are tried in a court. Did you get my point?


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## ashant

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Typical Indians.


 
No, this behavior is not typical of Indians. This behavior is typical of all arm chair internet warriors, irrespective of their nationality. Quit painting everyone with the same brush. Don't be blind to the Indians who posted sane comments and condemned the attacks.

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## ambivalence

wakapdf said:


> @ambivalence so is trolling



where did i troll? can u quote the specific part where i was trying to troll?


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## Leader

Areesh said:


> Well whatever. A great victory for the enemies of Pakistan and another failure for our military, intelligence and govt. The WOT costs us another 200million$. Huh. IS someone watching all this. Is their anybody in this country of 180 million that what the hell is going in here. Or are we bound to doom now. At least Kayani, pasha, zardari, gillani etc etc tell us that we do have a chance in future or is total destruction waiting us.


 
if top brass had allowed the truth out after the previous attacks (I would include Ojhri camp incident), then things might have been different...

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## AAtish

armageddon2012 said:


> This attack is nothing but a staged drama by pakistan's army and the ISI to divert the world's attention from pakistan as terror heaven to presenting itself as a victim of terror and to get more aid.
> 
> This will also divert the attention of local pakistanis from army's failure in responding to the violation of its airspace by american forces(killing of OBL incident).
> 
> It was already said that pakistan's army can take any step to divert the attention from its recent setbacks.
> 
> This incident is not at all unexpected!!P


 
And you don't accept 9/11, 7/7, and 26/11 to be inside job.. amazing!!!!


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## JonAsad

Pioneerfirst said:


> So why they take the responsibility.They did not take responsibility of Benazir killing?
> This is same as still people dont belive that Al-Qaida did 9/11 stuff and claim the responsibility but many of our people denied.Proving Osama(their hero) as lier.
> we should accept that safe havens of terrorism exist in our country,they may have some foreign support but 95% is done by our people.The sooner we accept it will be better for us.This thinking has stopped us making a national terror policy for last 10 yrs and terrorist have got so much strength to carry out sucg attacks.


 
Like i said in my previous post- POST OBL DEATH- 



> that after the death of OBL



why you just took my post as another denial one- and clearly ignored what i was reiterating-


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## King123

Jana said:


> Yes that is a better option because those who come from both sides just to post trash and they very well know they will be banned but their aim is to have little fun and run back to their holes.
> 
> 
> here its one sided affair where we see influx of bharatis getting into forum in case of such attacks and start gleeing



================================================================================================

*Why Not Make this as Pakistani Forum and Remove All Indian Defense Section and all Members with Indian Flags?? There are 1,000's of Indian Forum and many Pakistan Forum dedicated specially for their country ??.

I thought this is International Forum to Get Update on New Defense Systems across Globe as it interest me, So I track sometime (only Defense). I am mostly a silent member and hardly post anything and it looks Hatred most of the time. I see 50% Indian Members banned when I read posts and compare with 10% Pakistan and other countries members Post. It can easily be checked.

Dear Jana, I always see you posting hate comments. If you have and other Pakistani members having problem with Indians sorry Bharti. Delete Indian Sections and Remove Indians Members Completely. Make a Rule only Pakistani + BD + Chinese + whatever you wish can be a member. Then You can post anything you want (right or wrong hardly matters) and Make this Forum as one of 10,000 Forum biased on 1 side View. Who is Stopping ?? One 1 side , saying International Forum and other side bashing Bharti ?? I Understand Pain and i deeply condemn this attack. But Its Should be Both Side. Right ?? By the way, your Post is again same. I saw what was 100's of post by respected pak members During/Post 26/11. Its Like Say anything you want its Fine, But what if Bharti Speaks Evil. Its Bad for this forum. Sorry to Say. I am neither Anti Pakistani not totally biased towards India without any reason. *

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## muse

Friends:

What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?


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## salmakh84

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?


 
IT HAS ALREADY BEEN REPORTED THAT NO ATTACKER IS ALIVE. All captured were suspects from outside the base (either looking suspicious or had binoculars etc)


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## Windjammer

ARY reporting as five terrorists killed and seven captured alive.


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## Pioneerfirst

armageddon2012 said:


> This attack is nothing but a staged drama by pakistan's army and the ISI to divert the world's attention from pakistan as terror heaven to presenting itself as a victim of terror and to get more aid.
> 
> This will also divert the attention of local pakistanis from army's failure in responding to the violation of its airspace by american forces(killing of OBL incident).
> 
> It was already said that pakistan's army can take any step to divert the attention from its recent setbacks.
> 
> This incident is not at all unexpected!!P


 
Do you expect any force to kill its own part,suffer loss of 300 million $,damage its own image,prove itself incompetent to protect its own assets.
Now you are talking about conspiracy theory as many Pakistanis too here


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## AAtish

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?


 
wait for coup-de-tat then..


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## armageddon2012

Hammy007 said:


> yes we would destroy our own million dollar planes not one but 4 of them



Well a few hundered million dollar worth planes destroyed, but pakistan will get billions of dollars as aid in turn by potraying itself as a victim of terror through this incident. 
Understanding this point is no rocket science.


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## StormShadow

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?


Partly unsuccessful. Coz the operation was launched to get them alive.


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## JonAsad

my name is arya said:


> you have a strong point


 

If you can sacrifice your 200 or so mumbians in mumbai drama- then why not-


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## Major Sam

YOU ARE BLOODY SUCKERS, CANT DO ANYTHING.... just supporting terrorists bec thay are hurting paksitan.. tahst your real face, just stop ur bULLSHIT!!


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## Peregrine

Hammy007 said:


> the big question is how many have been captured alive?????????????????????????????????????



There is mudslinging contest going on in here and nobody will pay any heed towards your question. It's quite obvious that the admin is foot-dragging which is why the members are engaged in mindless bickering. Lets pray and hope that they do have some terrorists in custody.


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## pakdefender

Navy Spokesperson has said that 5 terrorists killed and a number of them have been captured, also news coming in that the troops that went into the base to take out the terrorists came out of the base chanting victory slogans so it seems that things have been brought under control

As far as letting too much information into the public domain is concerned thats not going to happen anytime soon

Also intel agencies are saying that there are clear indications that foreign hands were involved in this terrorists act.


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## xTra

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?



So we will never know, who were behind all this.

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## muse

See, something very curious is going on - one can understand inaccurate reports immediately after the incident, but this has been going on for a long while, they have had a chance to come up with good numbers and yet we don't have good numbers -- I am concerned that we may never know the truth of this incident and I suspect that in this lack of transparency in the name of the security establishment, we may never come to know the role of traitors and rogues


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## ambivalence

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?



This by no means is and inside job as many here are implying. why would the Pakistani navy drop the hammer on their own feet? p-3C Orion costs a lot of money and according to media reports, u guys lost 4 of them. however, nothing can be determined at this point as everyone is just speculating without having access to facts. the terrorists weren't planning to be taken alive (the suicide jackets) so the Pakistani intelligence agencies will have to resort to alternative investigation methods to find out the true culprits. Sad day for the Pakistani nation, my deepest condolences.

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## pakdefender

Sources are saying that 5 terrorists killed 7 captured


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## armageddon2012

King123 said:


> ================================================================================================
> 
> *Why Not Make this as Pakistani Forum and Remove All Indian Defense Section and all Members with Indian Flags?? There are 1,000's of Indian Forum and many Pakistan Forum dedicated specially for their country ??.
> 
> I thought this is International Forum to Get Update on New Defense Systems across Globe as it interest me, So I track sometime (only Defense). I am mostly a silent member and hardly post anything and it looks Hatred most of the time. I see 50% Indian Members banned when I read posts and compare with 10% Pakistan and other countries members Post. It can easily be checked.
> 
> Dear Jana, I always see you posting hate comments. If you have and other Pakistani members having problem with Indians sorry Bharti. Delete Indian Sections and Remove Indians Members Completely. Make a Rule only Pakistani + BD + Chinese + whatever you wish can be a member. Then You can post anything you want (right or wrong hardly matters) and Make this Forum as one of 10,000 Forum biased on 1 side View. Who is Stopping ?? One 1 side , saying International Forum and other side bashing Bharti ?? I Understand Pain and i deeply condemn this attack. But Its Should be Both Side. Right ?? By the way, your Post is again same. I saw what was 100's of post by respected pak members During/Post 26/11. Its Like Say anything you want its Fine, But what if Bharti Speaks Evil. Its Bad for this forum. Sorry to Say. I am neither Anti Pakistani not totally biased towards India without any reason. *


 
Dear friend,
Jana is one good example of how bad journalism could be. What else can you expect from a biased, india obcessed journalist who blindly hates india and spreads fictious conspiracy theory against india.


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## sid426

Jana said:


> Even if the above all is true still the onus is on us. the aircraft we bought by spending a huge amount and were important enough that India was worried over its inclusion in Pakistan Navy. what we had done to avoid such massive well planned attacked ???
> 
> 
> this is which is more concerning specially if the above is all true then it means our internal elements had joined hands with our enemy .




Ma'am, I agree with you. And i must say Pakistan has to clean its own house without any interference from the outside world. Leave aside US, leave aside China. Get the house in order, roast these terrorist dogs in the oven. clean it up totally, and start again. 

Pakistan HAS the potential to make it big, look at the whole world. Every nation is developing. But here Pakistan is stuck in a mess fighting America's war. What have you got in return. Just a few dollars, death and havoc.

Peace...May peace prevail...


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## Spring Onion

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?


 
Sir i sense what you are implying but keeping in view the massively huge area of the base and important equipment there the fight is going on and quiet possible that terrorists might be killed and no survivor BUT In that case atleast I would expect issuance of faces, information, identity, nationality of the killed terrorists so that truth is out. (BUT all this should be done after thorough investigation and not in haste for media showdown because it will alert the groupies of these terrorists providing a chance for them to hide.)

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## armageddon2012

AAtish said:


> And you don't accept 9/11, 7/7, and 26/11 to be inside job.. amazing!!!!


 
NO need to be upset mate, i am responding in the same manner a pakistani would have if this attack was on indian soil. We learnt this art of rebutting from paksitanis after mumbai blasts. Please stop crying.

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## Last Hope

What I personally feel is, seriously, we are soon gonna be in a allout war.
Pakistan Navy is weakest of all military of Pakistan, hence a route formed.

ISI, PAF and PN under attacks. Aid being cut down.

Seems like a pre-war preparation.
And seems like the ISI found it out, hence news about 50 JF-17 comming out.

Ya Allah, save this Pakistan today. Only you are our Last Hope now.

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## F86 Saber

Pakistan is doomed if we Pakistani's dont wake up. I dont know the exact percentage but there are people who support these f@&&king terrorists, give them refuge in their homes and protect them. We should realize that although it is widly known that pakistan army and govt. Had no idea about the us raid on osama still they are targeting us for their revenge because lets face it, they dont have the ability to target US


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## Comet

they captured terrorists before too but the terrorists attached and killed their own people. I hope this time the captured and kept safe.


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## muse

Well, the inside job is not institutional, it's individuals - and it's rather generally understood that islamists have infiltrated the ranks of airmen, technicians and such in the armed forces - so it's these individuals who may have enabled the entry from three different locations of at least three teams of attackers, in additon, these attackers were transported and staged, their weapons and munitions pre-positioned unless they carried all that weight - theu knew exactly where the ship were parked, knew where then fuel farm bladders were, knew how to operate them, were said to have access badges.

You may be right but I think the facts as we know them now, support the position I am persuaded by.

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## armageddon2012

muse said:


> Friends:
> 
> What will you make of events if it is reported that there are no survivors among the attackers?


 
That this attack will be blamed on india, simple.


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## ambivalence

armageddon2012 said:


> NO need to be upset mate, i am responding in the same manner a pakistani would have if this attack was on indian soil. We learnt this from paksitanis after mumbai blasts. Please stop crying.


 
this is just moronic rhetoric on your part. hate for the sake of hating. Human lives were lost. show some freakin respect.


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## Spring Onion

armageddon2012 said:


> NO need to be upset mate, i am responding in the same manner* a pakistani would have if this attack was on indian soil. *We learnt this art of rebutting from paksitanis after mumbai blasts. Please stop crying.


 
A big difference between behaving and WOULD HAVE as the latter is a future tense which has yet to happen.

anyway you Indians can enjoy and we must remember this and should not feel sorry for you when same happened in your country.

till them you can jump up and down but please dont cry next time on this forum


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## Major Sam

LOLXXXXX. we are not like u, tahst the difference, we was'nt celebrate and we will dont want to be like u. GOT IT


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## Comet

Why is media (dawn) continuously using the words "Halak" and "JanBahaq" instead of "Shaheed"?


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## Spring Onion

muse said:


> Well, the inside job is not institutional, it's individuals - and it's rather generally understood that islamists have infiltrated the ranks of airmen, technicians and such in the armed forces - so it's these individuals who may have enabled the entry from three different locations of at least three teams of attackers, in additon, these attackers were transported and staged, their weapons and munitions pre-positioned unless they carried all that weight - theu knew exactly where the ship were parked, knew where then fuel farm bladders were, knew how to operate them, were said to have access badges.
> 
> You may be right but I think the facts as we know them now, support the position I am persuaded by.


 
their leader was hanged in Musharraf attack case so we guess the gang must still be surviving somewhere within need to pick them announce hanging


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## Major Sam

no, they are suspected persons, doing monitoring operation by commandoes one of them caught while using telescope.


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## Spring Onion

umairp said:


> Why is media (dawn) continuously using the words "Halak" and "JanBahaq" instead of "Shaheed"?


 
umair leave these small issues. that isnt worth to discuss neither a word make any difference unless its derogatory


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## Spring Onion

umairp said:


> they captured terrorists before too but the terrorists attached and killed their own people. I hope this time the captured and kept safe.


 
many were freed by our courts. they went back and joined their colleague terrorists again and started attacking. thanks to all that hue and cry of missing persons. many of these missing persons are involved in dangerous terror acts and groups but our NGOs and some morons still beat the drum


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## my name is arya

Glorious Resolve said:


> If you can sacrifice your 200 or so mumbians in mumbai drama- then why not-


 
dear the smae lne you guys were saying after 26/11 

what wrong if your own snakes are becoming dangerous for you 

just try to see the fact pakistani army and ISI are just misuing pakistan as a nation 

tell me why first usa used pakistan now you are in hands pf china why 

dont you thik a common pakistan should be more important then pakistan army 

what you want pakistan as an army power or a stong happy pakistan as an nation 

tell me


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## muse

LATEST UPDATE
unfortunately it looks like the "fix" is in - Pakistanis may never know the truth

Operation to regain control of PNS Mehran over
Updated 2 minutes ago

KARACHI: An operation to regain control of Pakistan Naval airbase, PNS Mehran, assaulted by militants has been completed after almost 16 hours of fighting with up to 20 assailants holed up in a building, a security official said.

"T_he operation is over. The main building has been cleared,_" the official said. "_For precaution, we are continuing search around for any more terrorists but the main operation is over._"

*Bodies of three militants have been recovered from the building. Reports about security forces arrested some militants could not be confirmed.*

Gunmen armed with rockets and explosives stormed base,* destroying two US-made two P-3C Orion aircraft* surveillance aircraft and killing 12 security personnel.

Earlier, Geo News correspondent reported from the vicinity of the base that four militants blew themselves up.

Correspondent Tariq Abul Hassan also said that the arrested terrorists camouflaged themselves with dark dresses and fake cards have been recovered from them.

According to official spokesman, 11 navy and one Rangers personnel embraced martyrdom taking the toll to 12.

The operation against militants who attacked PNS Mehran started at 10.30 pm on Sunday.

The assault was the fourth on the navy in Karachi in a month. On April 28, four naval personnel and a passing motorcyclist were killed in a bombing, two days after four other people were killed in two navy bus bombings.


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## ambivalence

muse said:


> Well, the inside job is not institutional, it's individuals - and it's rather generally understood that islamists have infiltrated the ranks of airmen, technicians and such in the armed forces - so it's these individuals who may have enabled the entry from three different locations of at least three teams of attackers, in additon, these attackers were transported and staged, their weapons and munitions pre-positioned unless they carried all that weight - theu knew exactly where the ship were parked, knew where then fuel farm bladders were, knew how to operate them, were said to have access badges.You may be right but I think the facts as we know them now, support the position I am persuaded by.


 
well then according to your logic the Pakistani armed forces have certain personal who would harm their own country? if true than this whole security lapse issue would be the last thing on your list of priorities as then, you'll have a major problem on your hands. militants infiltrating the country's most powerful institution is a cause of grave concern.

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## Comet

Jana said:


> umair leave these small issues. that isnt worth to discuss neither a word make any difference unless its derogatory


 
The anchor was talking on phone to a politician and the guy corrected the guy twice but still..... No one has any code of conduct these days.


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## Nalwa

innocentboy said:


> I hope you must have this during the mumbai attacks.
> 
> To you eye witnesses are conspiracy theorists? The man in your avatar looks like Sikh. is it a conspiracy theory as well?


 
Paranoia and fear often give rise to conspiracy theories. And these "eye-witness" accounts of attackers being 'foreign looking' also tie into the fact that Pakistan finds it hard to believe that these terrorist acts could be perpetrated by its own.

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## my name is arya

is there not a single leader who can stand up against pakistan army and isi and lead pakistan common pepole


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## Nalwa

Windjammer said:


> Yea, we should have a few teachers marching around with twelve years old shouting ant-India slogans much like what we witnessed while the firefight was still taking place in the Taj.


 
Naah. Blame everybody else but your own selves for the mess that you're into. That's be totally like what you're used to doing.


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## muse

Jana said:


> their leader was hanged in Musharraf attack case so we guess the gang must still be surviving somewhere within need to pick them announce hanging


 


Also Jana, there have been reports of the sabotage of F16 aircraft by airmen -- in my earlier posts I had suggested that the reason we will not have "survivors" is that the Pakistan armed forces are like their nation, divided over islamism - and they don't want the world to know this, because it will rob them of credibility, if the world becomes convinced that the Pakistan armed forces are themselves at the root of the rot, kiss a whole lot of things goodbye -- but now thew world knows and more importantly the people of Pakistan, know

And because it is a civil war, as well as an insurgency, and a religious war, some of the players (usually found dead after an operation) will have interesting backgrounds


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## Hammy007

Nalwa said:


> Paranoia and fear often give rise to conspiracy theories. And these "eye-witness" accounts of attackers being 'foreign looking' also tie into the fact that Pakistan finds it hard to believe that these terrorist acts could be perpetrated by its own.


 
there have been reports and sources saying those were foreigners, were of white complexion, this is not called conspiracy thoery, maybe you indian paranoia has led you to believe all facts are conpiraciy theories when coming from pakistan if it doesnt suit the indian mind

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## ambivalence

my name is arya said:


> is there not a single leader who can stand up against pakistan army and isi and lead pakistan common pepole


 
Dude, every intelligence agency in the world in neck deep in some sick sh!t. if you think only the ISI is involved in umbrella operations, i have a bridge in newyork i want you to buy. The purpose of every spy agency is to safeguard its parent country's interests so your statement is inherently flawed. Even though i am an American, i have no problems listing numerous operations where the CIA played dirty to achieve its goals. So basically the statement u made is inherently illogical.

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## ashant

armageddon2012 said:


> NO need to be upset mate, i am responding in the same manner a pakistani would have if this attack was on indian soil. We learnt this art of rebutting from paksitanis after mumbai blasts. Please stop crying.


 
Two wrongs don't make a right. You might get couple of seconds of pleasure out of misfortune of others, but it's vile and demented. All said and done, Pakistan is our neighbor. They may be adversaries, but their soldiers have died for no fault of their own. If we expect that others stand by us when our innocents are killed, we should learn to behave when misfortune falls on others. 

Terrorists attack and kill innocent people. The only response to such terrorists is condemnation and the least the victims of terrorist attacks deserve is commiserations from all quarters. There is no honor in petty finger pointing, point scoring and ugly expressions of schadenfreude. People who do this should be treated like the scum they are.

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## Devil Soul

LT Yasir(Shaheed) was going to get married after 4 months


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## Avatar

What exactly were Chinese engineers doing there in the first place, among the American planes ?


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## Hammy007

Last Hope said:


> What I personally feel is, seriously, we are soon gonna be in a allout war.
> Pakistan Navy is weakest of all military of Pakistan, hence a route formed.
> 
> ISI, PAF and PN under attacks. Aid being cut down.
> 
> Seems like a pre-war preparation.
> And seems like the ISI found it out, hence news about 50 JF-17 comming out.
> 
> Ya Allah, save this Pakistan today. Only you are our Last Hope now.


 
how is the fact that navy is the weakest branch got to do with the security of a naval base???


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## Black Widow

BBC is saying that these terrorists had captured some foreign ppl, Are they safe?? any news bout them?? BBC is saying that they were chinese, is it true?

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## Hammy007

Avatar said:


> What exactly were Chinese engineers doing there in the first place, among the American planes ?


 
the research and development part of navy is situated there


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## my name is arya

ambivalence said:


> Dude, every intelligence agency in the world in neck deep in some sick sh!t. if you think only the ISI is involved in umbrella operations, i have a bridge in newyork i want you to buy. The purpose of every spy agency is to safeguard its parent country's interests so your statement is inherently flawed. Even though i am an American, i have no problems listing numerous operations where the CIA played dirty to achieve its goals. So basically the statement u made is inherently illogical.


 
i accept your poing but fact is that ISI and pak army is now out of controll 

tell me who is hte most important in any country well in my point of veiw any common pepole should be the most important and pakistan has to understand that point 

its time when pakistan has to clean there inside dirt


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## Dhruv V Singh

An army commando at a checkpoint is seen, while others check vehicles as they are on alert following the attack.  Photo by AP

Racial profiling anyone? Or should i say facial hair profiling. Notice how the mullah looking man is pulled over for "random security check".


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## Dr. Strangelove

my name is arya said:


> is there not a single leader who can stand up against pakistan army and isi and lead pakistan common pepole


 
yes there is one mr nasar of pml n


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

fatman17 said:


> this terrorist attack could not have taken place without 'insider' help. just like the GHQ attack, retired or serving NCO's/soldiers who had jahadist feelings have helped the terrorists in their planning and operation. the attack took place late on sunday night when there is 'mimimum' security (i dont know why but on week-ends the armed forces completely shut-down). there is very little traffic and the control-tower is also shut down. its high time that the peace-time SOPs are changed.
> 
> i am wondering if heads are going to roll on this one - from the base commander all the way to the top!!! - at least US$200m worth of equipment has been lost, not to mention the 'loss' of lives of the soldiers.


 
Sir if you have any influence at all please take the message to those in charge of investigating this attack...

Check out all the foreigners that were based on PAF Mehran in recent times (perhaps going back up to six months)...

If you are looking for insiders... these people should be the first to be investigated...

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## Windjammer

Nalwa said:


> Naah. Blame everybody else but your own selves for the mess that you're into. That's be totally like what you're used to doing.


 
Let me beat you with your own stick, every time an incident occurs, all the scum bag start making gloating claims but unlike your set up, the GOP seldom starts pointing fingers. It doesn't need an historian to work out that PN has no role in the WOT.


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## Devil Soul

---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------

they r saying we have captured 5 terrorist & they r injured ..... still not confirmed


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## Juice

raheel1 said:


> No but sort of what happened to your pussies*** in pearl harbour. I liked the way they cried and begged for their lives. I really enjoy that moment still. Now go and fu*k your mama you bloody ignorant yank! *tards are on the loose here...


 
We got our pound of flesh.

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## Comet

Gawadar to be given to China... Chinese attacked in a Naval base. (just a thought)


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## Ahmad

Devil Soul said:


> ---------- Post added at 03:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------
> 
> they r saying we have captured 5 terrorist & they r injured ..... still not confirmed


 
There are too many conflicting reports about this, nobody knows what the actual situation is.


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## StormShadow

Juice said:


> We got our pound of flesh.


Do u really feel his post was worth replying?


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## T-Faz

Many Pakistanis in denial mode again blaming RAW, CIA, Zionist Aliens and whatever that comes to their confused mind. To this day, not one attack has been succesfully linked to any foreign entity. It's our very own Muslim strategic assets who attacked us because in their view, Pakistan is not Islamic enough.

Harkat-ul-Islam is probably behind this, our Arab brothers give them a lot of money and they are very well trained. Their aim is probably to show that they can still attack military installments. 

Our forces have shown their incompetence again and until we do not realise that these terrorists are the enemy, this will continue.

How shameful?

There are just too many terrorist sympathizers in our forces.

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## Spring Onion

ejaz007 said:


> *A suspect outside PNS Mehran held *
> Updated at: 1047 PST, Monday, May 23, 2011
> 
> 
> KARACHI: A suspect from outside the PNS Mehran was taken into custody by the authorities this morning here, Geo News reported.
> 
> Sources said that one person named Majid was held from outside PNS Mehran, who was viewing through a telescope the operation underway in the PNS Mehran.
> 
> The police arresting the suspect shifted him to some unknown place.
> 
> A suspect outside PNS Mehran held - GEO.tv


 
*late morning i.e 3am , 4 am the entire outside area of the base was filled with people curiousely looking at what was going on so supposedly this chap might be just an onlooker *


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## muse

our Islamist crew is becoming desperate, instead o focusing on the airmen, sailors and the security and guard contingent, they are pointing fingers at all manner of foreigners - - This operation could not be possible without help from the inside, just like the Bus attacks

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## Skull and Bones

Jana said:


> *late morning i.e 3am , 4 am the entire outside area of the base was filled with people curiousely looking at what was going on so supposedly this chap might be just an onlooker *


 
But not everyone had a telescope in hand.


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## Dhruv V Singh

Jana said:


> *late morning i.e 3am , 4 am the entire outside area of the base was filled with people curiousely looking at what was going on so supposedly this chap might be just an onlooker *


 
His photo was posted couple of pages back, didn't look like he could afford a telescope? Unless of course telescopes are cheap in Pakistan.


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## rideto_live

RIP to the dead , also i think Indian should maintain slence and not give nasihat at this point of time. Dont need to do what some might have done during 26/11, we dont have to be like that.

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## Spring Onion

umairp said:


> Gawadar to be given to China... Chinese attacked in a Naval base. (just a thought)


 
its high time we hand over Gwadar to China completely as the next war is coming our way over Gwadar and it will be joined all of our foreign enemies and so-called allies in WoT.


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## Devil Soul




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## Juice

AAtish said:


> whether TTP did it or anyone else, thats not the issue..
> 
> The issue is, are we going to stay ignorant as always that Pakistan IS IN WAR? and when it is WAR, it doesn't matter who the opponent is, anyone raising arms against the country shall be taken out, INSIDER or OUTSIDER..
> 
> Political Parties need to throw down THEIR flags and raise PAKISTANI flag for once.. If they don't do it then i would prefer giving control back to Military, at least in their control, Pakistanis were living peacefully..
> 
> Kill every one who even "talks" against PAKISTAN!!!!! simple as that!!!.. If you are not a Patriot, You either need to get the fcuk out or get killed, two options.. thats it!!!!


 
I agree with you. If you live in a country..and do not support it or work against it...be shown the door or worse. How is London BTW?


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## ambivalence

my name is arya said:


> i accept your poing but fact is that ISI and pak army is now out of controll
> 
> tell me who is hte most important in any country well in my point of veiw any common pepole should be the most important and pakistan has to understand that point
> 
> its time when pakistan has to clean there inside dirt



why would the spy agency throw its very own people under the bus? doesnt make sense. there might be some truth to the statement that there might be so elements within the ISI who support the militants but to portray the whole organization as a rogue institution is just wrong. there are black sheep in every society, heck we had pollard who supplied classified information to israel, this doesnt mean that the whole institution was bad.

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## Developereo

Bang Galore said:


> There however, must be a realisation that there are no useful rabid dogs; only those that haven't yet turned on you. The nature of such beasts is that they can never be your friends. The faster that realisation hits home, the better for Pakistan & indeed for everyone else including India.


 
That's the point that the Pakistani establishment doesn't seem to understand. All governments use 'unconventional' means to achieve their goals, but when you are not able to control your assets -- or, worse still, your enemies start using your own assets against you -- then it's time to ditch those assets. India learned that lesson when the LTTE started getting active in Tamil Nadu; the Saudis got wise after the Khobar Towers bombing; but Pakistan still hasn't accepted this reality.

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## StormShadow

Jana said:


> its high time we hand over Gwadar to China completely as the next war is coming our way over Gwadar and it will be joined all of our foreign enemies and so-called allies in WoT.


NO...your armed forces are there to protect your installations. Why depend on China or any other country. And mind you...once China is attacked by the terrorists your relation with them would weaken. All Pakistan needs to do is to weed out terrorist sympathizers from the armed forces and everything will fall in line.


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## Skull and Bones

Jana said:


> its high time we hand over Gwadar to China completely as the next war is coming our way over Gwadar and it will be joined all of our foreign enemies and so-called allies in WoT.


 
Given all these chaos, will Gwadar be economically feasible for China? just a thought.


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## Areesh

T-Faz said:


> Many Pakistanis in denial mode again blaming RAW, CIA, Zionist Aliens and whatever that comes to their confused mind. To this day, not one attack has been succesfully linked to any foreign entity. It's our very own Muslim strategic assets who attacked us because in their view, Pakistan is not Islamic enough.
> 
> Harkat-ul-Islam is probably behind this, our Arab brothers give them a lot of money and they are very well trained. Their aim is probably to show that they can still attack military installments.
> 
> Our forces have shown their incompetence again and until we do not realise that these terrorists are the enemy, this will continue.
> 
> How shameful?
> 
> There are just too many terrorist sympathizers in our forces.


 
And even bigger fact is that these muslim strategic assets have joined hands with secular nationalists of BLA. All Americans came out of the base unharmed while terrorists just after destroying the aircrafts went for the building where the chinese men were living. Still no foreign hand. OK. I agree with you.


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## MumbaiIndians

Edited............................................


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## Riz

here is My P3  Orian


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## T-Faz

This Pasha and Kiyani need to go.

What kind of unprofessional army has PA become, why aren't their replacements for these men who have utterly failed?

Tell them to go play golf so we can get some formidable men to lead us in this war.

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## T-Faz

Areesh said:


> And even bigger fact is that these muslim strategic assets have joined hands with secular nationalists of BLA. All Americans came out of the base unharmed while terrorists just after destroying the aircrafts went for the building where the chinese men were living. Still no foreign hand. OK. I agree with you.


 
Charsi, BLA is supported by foreign entities but it is not capable of anything noteworthy, all it does is kill innocents in non secure areas of Balochistan.

Rather than speculating, bring some proof.

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## roadrunner

MumbaiIndians said:


> USA and Europe are just trying to keep alive their dying influence in the region -
> 
> 1. If USA and NATO wants, it can finish off this Taliban business very quickly. But they won't.
> 2. Pakistan is not allowing US investments into its economy the way americans want it. This will allow USA to take control of Pakistan in more comprehensive way. This is a major contention between US and Pakistan, OBL is only a smaller drama and irrelevant here.
> 3. USA wants to cut off Pakistan from India and sabotage SAARC economic block. SAARC currency will single handedly over-shadow Euro as single biggest currency block in just 10 years, if you look at market size of SAARC.
> 4. Keeping TTP alive helps in accomplishing 2 and 3.
> 5. After the Civilian Govt. (zardari) came to power, 2 and 3 are becoming more difficult because Civilian politicos of Pakistan are in favour of good economic relations with India.
> 6. The recent OBL episode took place due to event 5. Otherwise, there was no hurry to do 5. OBL episode is convincing me that, USA will attempt something more desperate in coming months to take control in the region.
> 
> Now, some obervations:
> 
> 1. Let it be clear, that an unstable Pakistan in hands of Jihadis is bad for India and China both. But it fully achieves USA+British European agendas for region.
> 2. There might be some temptations in China to let this unstable situation carry on for few more years or a decade, to slow down regional growth. It will help China push up its own profile in Asia.
> 3. China has no stakes in SAARC or rupee block. In fact, it will only hurt China(renmibi) as competitor. Same is true with Dollar and Euro. Noone likes a new competitor.
> 4. Saudis have no role in this region and never had in history. Those who think they have, are fooling themself and only helping outside agendas. Saudis have sold out their own state to west, why they will fight for you? The recent attack on Saudi diplomat was showing this frustration of a segment in Pakistan who believed in that idea. Its a wake up sign.
> 
> Points 3,3 above are very important. That's the reason China, USA and Europe all have common objective here. They will keep region boiling forever and break it if possible.
> 
> *I think the end-game here is, India and Pakistan should join hands to finish off this western funded terrorism mess(started with Saudi+USA funded Jehad war on Soviets) and form an economic union. Lets bring peace and prosperity for our brothers. Its time to complete what was left in 1947.*


 
I dont think you can say China, USA, and Europe have a common plan to break the region. 

China needs the region stable and Pakstan as an ally for pipelines and export ports. 

USA would not like China to have such freedom. Their interests arent the same. This fault line gives rise to the Great Game which is usually played in Afghanistan but Pakistan also is part of the playground that everyone uses.


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## Hammy007

still no briefing on RM part, this god damn charsi


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## Spring Onion

Dhruv V Singh said:


> His photo was posted couple of pages back, didn't look like he could afford a telescope? Unless of course telescopes are cheap in Pakistan.


 
you can find cheap here in markets not a big issue

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## salmakh84

so, when will this thread end?


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## muse

T-Faz said:


> This Pasha and Kiyani need to go.
> 
> What kind of unprofessional army has PA become, why aren't their replacements for these men who have utterly failed?
> 
> Tell them to go play golf so we can get some formidable men to lead us in this war.




These two are this governments only guarantee that their government will not end up like all others - The army really has become a liability, it merely sucks the wealth out of Pakistan and gives us failure after failure after failure -- it may be time to think if we don't need a very large and effective national police force and a small army, but one that fights and kills the enemies of Pakistan for a living, as opposed to ruling over us.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

T-Faz said:


> This Pasha and Kiyani need to go.
> 
> What kind of unprofessional army has PA become, why aren't their replacements for these men who have utterly failed?
> 
> Tell them to go play golf so we can get some formidable men to lead us in this war.



And who is going to appoint 'formidable replacements'? Zardari, Gillani or perhaps Nawaz? They will choose the most pliant they can find, not the most competent, and typically these 'pliant' types that our political leadership chooses end up being the corrupt ones that overthrow the Govt. - Zia, Musharraf etc.

The changes needed in the security establishment go beyond just the military command, they are required in everything from civilian law enforcement and intelligence to improved intelligence capabilities at the ISI, and not least, improved governance by the 'elected leadership'.

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## Awesome

T-Faz said:


> This Pasha and Kiyani need to go.
> 
> What kind of unprofessional army has PA become, why aren't their replacements for these men who have utterly failed?
> 
> Tell them to go play golf so we can get some formidable men to lead us in this war.


 
I think General Khalid Wynne, the current CJCSC should be promoted to COAS. He is also 58 years old and can probably get an extension till he turns 62.

He was supposed to be COAS when Kayani got a few more years through an extension.


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## fatman17

T-Faz said:


> This Pasha and Kiyani need to go.
> 
> What kind of unprofessional army has PA become, why aren't their replacements for these men who have utterly failed?
> 
> Tell them to go play golf so we can get some formidable men to lead us in this war.



all the formidable men are 'superseded' when the time comes to select 'professionals' for the top jobs!

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## Ahmad

salmakh84 said:


> so, when will this thread end?


 
maybe in a few days time. once there is more important news, this thread will die.


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## Spring Onion

StormShadow said:


> NO...your armed forces are there to protect your installations. Why depend on China or any other country. And mind you...once China is attacked by the terrorists your relation with them would weaken. All Pakistan needs to do is to weed out terrorist sympathizers from the armed forces and everything will fall in line.


 
Its not depending on someone its cashing in the best option and best option is give China a base in Pakistan.

many countries including your India has bases in foreign countries.

anyway i still support immediate base for China in Pakistan


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

muse said:


> These two are this governments only guarantee that their government will not end up like all others -


 
But I thought you wanted the Army to stay out of politics? So why complain about Pasha and Kayani doing exactly that, and not being a threat to the civilian government?

You are utterly confused and really have no idea of what you want.


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## muse

Zardari, Nawaz or any other civilian actually have the right to rule Pakistan - Pakistan belongs to us, civilians, not the Fauj - Agnostic seems to have made a career arguing that Pakistan belongs to the Army and we should all be happy to be the army's serfs -


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## origin eagle

our naval defence has got much much weak
but how did these terrorists got access to such things without entering you must have your service id card
and wear a uniform


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## Areesh

T-Faz said:


> Charsi, BLA is supported by foreign entities but it is not capable of anything noteworthy, all it does is kill innocents in non secure areas of Balochistan.
> 
> Rather than speculating, bring some proof.


 
Thanks for name calling and abusing. Making racists and idiots a moderator is always a dumb thing to do. Unfortunately defence.pk has committed this mistake. 



> The banned Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan and Baloch separatists had claimed the responsibility of the attacks.



Naval Base Attacks


Anyways since all evil comes from Arabs and Zia and Maulivs we shouldn't accuse BLA of this incident even if they claim responsibility.

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## fatman17

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> And who is going to appoint 'formidable replacements'? Zardari, Gillani or perhaps Nawaz? They will choose the most pliant they can find, not the most competent, and typically these 'pliant' types that our political leadership chooses end up being the corrupt ones that overthrow the Govt. - Zia, Musharraf etc.
> 
> The changes needed in the security establishment go beyond just the military command, they are required in everything from civilian law enforcement and intelligence to improved intelligence capabilities at the ISI, and not least, improved governance by the 'elected leadership'.



bhutto chose zia over 5 senior officers and nawaz picked musharraf over 6 senior generals and the rest is history as they say - zia destroyed 'professionalism' in the army and musharraf, we are reaping the seeds he sowed........

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## Peregrine

According to Geo news the terrorists were not more than 5 in numbers.


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## Developereo

Areesh said:


> And even bigger fact is that these muslim strategic assets have joined hands with secular nationalists of BLA. All Americans came out of the base unharmed while terrorists just after destroying the aircrafts went for the building where the chinese men were living. Still no foreign hand. OK. I agree with you.


 
The blame lies on both foreign and domestic agents. The foot soldiers for terrorism are local brainwashed jihadis, but the funding comes from external and domestic agencies. However, since we can't really control CIA, Mossad, RAW, Arabs, etc. the only thing we can do is to eliminate the jihdai scourge from our society, so our enemies cannot find willing recruits already within Pakistan.

If our people put Pakistan first, and being Muslim as a private matter, then troublemakers -- foreign or domestic -- cannot exploit the 'true Muslim' card to promote terrorism.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

muse said:


> Zardari, Nawaz or any other civilian actually have the right to rule Pakistan - Pakistan belongs to us, civilians, not the Fauj - Agnostic seems to have made a career arguing that Pakistan belongs to the Army and we should all be happy to be the army's serfs -


 
Oh right, I am the one arguing we should be 'serfs of the military' when right here you were complaining about the current military leadership not being a threat to the civilian government:

"These two are this governments only guarantee that their government will not end up like all others "

Sir, you are confused and and have no clue as to what you want, hence the repeated distortions of others positions and obfuscation.

My position has always been that we need to hold the elected leadership accountable, and if they say they have no control over certain policies, openly question those that the politicians claim have control. So far our government has not stated anything of the sort openly.

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## muse

fatman17 said:


> all the formidable men are 'superseded' when the time comes to select 'professionals' for the top jobs!


 

Because all governments have ti be looking over their shoulder to ensure the army is not scheming against the government of the Republic -- It's very sad that it is not understood on this forum and among people who should know better, that army must return to the barracks in a complete manner, and that thgis is necessary for it's survival in it's present form


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## Hammy007

we dont know from where geo is getting intel, by all other channels 5 have been arrested


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## Ahmad

Peregrine said:


> According to Geo news the terrorists were not more than 5 in numbers.


 
too many conflicting reports about the whole thing.


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## T-Faz

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> And who is going to appoint 'formidable replacements'? Zardari, Gillani or perhaps Nawaz? They will choose the most pliant they can find, not the most competent, and typically these 'pliant' types that our political leadership chooses end up being the corrupt ones that overthrow the Govt. - Zia, Musharraf etc.
> 
> The changes needed in the security establishment go beyond just the military command, they are required in everything from civilian law enforcement and intelligence to improved intelligence capabilities at the ISI, and not least, improved governance by the 'elected leadership'.


 
Based on Merit and professional successes, not on the orders of our pathetic civilian government.

I would prefer to see Gen. Tariq Khan lead the army while Maj Gen. Asfandyar Ali Khan is made DG ISI.

Both are the right kind of men required for this current predicament.


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## T-Faz

Asim Aquil said:


> I think General Khalid Wynne, the current CJCSC should be promoted to COAS. He is also 58 years old and can probably get an extension till he turns 62.
> 
> He was supposed to be COAS when Kayani got a few more years through an extension.


 
But the problem with General Wynne is that he more politically inclined and has links with the PPP government.

Someone who has actually been a part of our operations in FATA should be in charge of this army.

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------




fatman17 said:


> all the formidable men are 'superseded' when the time comes to select 'professionals' for the top jobs!


 
I know but this is time to change this political tradition.

Get the right leader in place and the whole institution will revert back to its glory days.


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## roadrunner

Jana said:


> Its not depending on someone its cashing in the best option and best option is give China a base in Pakistan.
> 
> many countries including your India has bases in foreign countries.
> 
> anyway i still support immediate base for China in Pakistan


 
What must be coincidental is that a couple of days before there were reports Pakistan wanted to China to build a naval base at Gwadar. 

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/pak-wants-china-to-build-naval-base-at-gwadar-13529.html 

And a couple of days later, this one gets attacked.

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## StormShadow

Jana said:


> Its not depending on someone its cashing in the best option and best option is give China a base in Pakistan.
> 
> many countries including your India has bases in foreign countries.
> 
> anyway i still support immediate base for China in Pakistan


I dont say having a base is not a good thing. But now is not the right time IMO. You have given a base to US, UAE and now China? NATO base also is so near. Pakistan will become a battleground for the proxies of all these major players oncea base is given.


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## Spring Onion

muse said:


> Zardari, Nawaz or any other civilian actually have the right to rule Pakistan - Pakistan belongs to us, civilians, not the Fauj - Agnostic seems to have made a career arguing that Pakistan belongs to the Army and we should all be happy to be the army's serfs -


 
and Agno can claim the same about you sir by saying you made career by supporting corrupt politicians and bashing army 


lets not malign the jawans and officers of Army who are sacrificing their lives, just because few idiots are committing mistakes

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## roadrunner

Developereo said:


> The blame lies on both foreign and domestic agents. The foot soldiers for terrorism are local brainwashed jihadis, but the funding comes from external and domestic agencies. However, since we can't really control CIA, Mossad, RAW, Arabs, etc. the only thing we can do is to eliminate the jihdai scourge from our society, so our enemies cannot find willing recruits already within Pakistan.
> 
> If our people put Pakistan first, and being Muslim as a private matter, then troublemakers -- foreign or domestic -- cannot exploit the 'true Muslim' card to promote terrorism.



A case for a communist state. Someone had to say it.

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## Bratva

muse said:


> Zardari, Nawaz or any other civilian actually have the right to rule Pakistan - Pakistan belongs to us, civilians, not the Fauj - Agnostic seems to have made a career arguing that Pakistan belongs to the Army and we should all be happy to be the army's serfs -




Easy to criticize army while sitting in some western country. Empty words and concerns, at least army is doing something, fighting terrorists, no matter how much they fail each time. they again rise up and live to fight another day. What you do, you woke up every day and live to criticize army another day?

What will happen If Pasha and Kiyani changed? The old policies will still be followed, the budget constraints will remain there, the intelligence failures will still occur. What will actually happen if we change Kiyani and Pasha?

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## roadrunner

StormShadow said:


> I dont say having a base is not a good thing. But now is not the right time IMO. You have given a base to US, UAE and now China? NATO base also is so near. Pakistan will become a battleground for the proxies of all these major players oncea base is given.


 
True. But now is the right time to shift all the bases in China's camp.

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## T-Faz

Areesh said:


> Thanks for name calling and abusing. Making racists and idiots a moderator is always a dumb thing to do. Unfortunately defence.pk has committed this mistake.
> 
> Naval Base Attacks
> 
> Anyways since all evil comes from Arabs and Zia and Maulivs we shouldn't accuse BLA of this incident even if they claim responsibility.


 
What name calling?

Its an apt observation, without any proof or information, you seem to be linking this attack to entities that might not be involved in this attack.

Btw Baloch separatists are not exactly BLA, they are more likely to be Jundullah, another group which was previously supported by our security establishment. We are still accused of supporting them to this day and they have launched attacks in Karachi previously. 

But you can keep believing anything you want, its the BLA with Zionist alien Hinjews who carried out this attack.


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## fatman17

muse said:


> Because all governments have ti be looking over their shoulder to ensure the army is not scheming against the government of the Republic -- It's very sad that it is not understood on this forum and among people who should know better, that army must return to the barracks in a complete manner, and that thgis is necessary for it's survival in it's present form



i beg to differ my friend - bhutto, nawaz, BB are 'parnoid' to the hilt. they have never tried to understand how the army works/operates. because of this 'weakness', they have time and again given space not only to the military but to the establishment to 'undermine' their authority - in nawaz's case, he wanted to run the army like it was a branch of his steel business, he wanted to interfere in the day-to-day affairs of the military. it dosnt work that way, while bhutto and BB were not as 'stupid' as NS, but their self-inflicted paranoia let them down the wrong road.

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## Awesome

fatman17 said:


> all the formidable men are 'superseded' when the time comes to select 'professionals' for the top jobs!



The Superseding of generals for COAS is acceptable to a limit. Musharraf's appointment was odd, Kayani's wasn't.

Anyway as things stand General Kayani and Zardari seem hand in glove as well. Right now the question is being raised on whether or not can he defend Pakistan.


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## muse

Hammy007 said:


> we dont know from where geo is getting intel, by all other channels 5 have been arrested


 
But what does that mean - arrested were or are attackers or not - were they arrested inside the base?

I'm really concerned that we simply will not have a investigation into this - and once again, like the Lahore attacks, the Navy Bus attack and a host of other attacks, never know the truth of how the enemy is - how the armed forces are situated, the depth and breadth of Islamist infiltration -- This operation has been a huge success, all over the world the story is if the base can be attacked, how safe are the nuclear materials, triggers, components.

I realize this is not how it is or will be seen in Pakistan and this is a reflection of the insularity Pakistan seek escape in, but I hope there are people who realize we need a different kind of army, one that fights Pakistan's enemies, not Pakistan's civilian governments.

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## Spring Onion

*Base has been cleared and now under control of Navy *


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## Leader

mafiya said:


> Easy to criticize army while sitting in some western country. Empty words and concerns, at least army is doing something, fighting terrorists, no matter how much they fail each time. they again rise up and live to fight another day. What you do, you woke up every day and live to criticize army another day?
> 
> *What will happen If Pasha and Kiyani changed? The old policies will still be followed, the budget constraints will remain there, the intelligence failures will still occur. What will actually happen if we change Kiyani and Pasha?*


 
should we then not grant them a life time service option ?


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## sivadreams

If P3C is destroyed... I have question here? where is the nearest runway to land P3C...

I have my own doubts on this news...?


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## Mujahid

Wreckage of P-3C Orion aircrafts seen at the base after an assault by Khariji TTP militants. 23 May 2011






Soldiers take position during the operation against the Takfiri militants of TTP to regain control of the base. 23 May 2011






Soldiers arrive at PNS Mehran naval base to regain control after attack by Khariji TTP militants. 23 May 2011






Soldiers take position during the operation against the Takfiri militants of TTP to regain control of the base. 23 May 2011






Soldiers gather at PNS Mehran naval base during an operation against militants. 23 May 2011


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## Spring Onion

StormShadow said:


> I dont say having a base is not a good thing. But now is not the right time IMO. You have given a base to US, UAE and now China? NATO base also is so near. Pakistan will become a battleground for the proxies of all these major players oncea base is given.


 
Pakistan is already a battlefield for our enemies. the next target is Balochistan for sure and its HIGH TIME base should be given to CHINA in Gwadar


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## Spring Onion

sivadreams said:


> If P3C is destroyed... I have question here? where is the nearest runway to land P3C...
> 
> I have my own doubts on this news...?


 

learn to read google map you wont have an issue then.


btw what kind of doubt you have?


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## Riz

Jana said:


> *Base has been cleared and now under control of Navy *



Any briefing by ISPR ?


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## Bratva

T-Faz said:


> What name calling?
> 
> Its an apt observation, without any proof or information, you seem to be linking this attack to entities that might not be involved in this attack.
> 
> Btw Baloch separatists are not exactly BLA, they are more likely to be Jundullah, another group which was previously supported by our security establishment. We are still accused of supporting them to this day and they have launched attacks in Karachi previously.
> 
> But you can keep believing anything you want, its the BLA with Zionist alien Hinjews who carried out this attack.



T-Faz,are you following the news regularly? did you read the news, when navy buses were attacked, Azad Baloch of BLA specifically accepted the responsibility beside the TTP. what made you think that BLA is not again involved in it as DAWN has reported Baloch separatists claimed responsibility again


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## sivadreams

Jana said:


> learn to read google map you wont have an issue then.
> 
> 
> btw what kind of doubt you have?


 
Thanks Jana, Can you help me locating the runway here in Google Map. I am novice you see.


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## Evil Flare

3:40 pm
The Pakistan navy has issued an official statement that the operation to kill or capture terrorists who had taken over the compound is over.
Spokesperson added that all the naval assets at PNS Mehran have been secured.

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## Juice

Just wanted to point out that as the story develops the facts seem to change and are very liquid...I noticed a lot of members of this forum took that to mean Osama wasn't killed when this happened not to long ago. Just shows that you must wait for some time for the facts to present themselves.


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## Leader

Aamir Zia said:


> 3:40 pm
> The Pakistan navy has issued an official statement that the operation to kill or capture terrorists who had taken over the compound is over.
> Spokesperson added that all the naval assets at PNS Mehran have been secured.


 
anyone captured alive? will the bodies be shown to media?


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## T-Faz

mafiya said:


> T-Faz,are you following the news regularly? did you read the news, when navy buses were attacked, Azad Baloch of BLA specifically accepted the responsibility beside the TTP. what made you think that BLA is not again involved in it as DAWN has reported Baloch separatists claimed responsibility again


 
Yes, BLA, that low level and unprofessional scapegoat for all our miseries.

This BLA is a weak and disorganized entity that can never achieve the kind of success these Jihadi's have.

Its goal is separate from the terrorists but our establishment is hell bent on making it a villain.

Baloch Separatist groups are aplenty and the only one which is capable of such an attack is Jundullah.

BLA is simply not strong enough to carry out this attack, they are just used as a scapegoat to divert attention.


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## Devil Soul




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## Awesome

If you can get into PAF bases by the simple means of "Dewaarein Phalaangna"... Something went horribly wrong.

Our Army's leaders need to end their lavish lifestyles and get to business... It needs to fix itself from the top to the bottom. If terrorists can get in, the the US can get in and blow up our nukes as well.

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## footmarks

A pakistani naval base, where there were US engineers, and Chinese too, was attacked by (suspected) BLA/Afgan supported TTP. Saudi terrorist (OBL) was hiding in Pakistan. Arab money is funding terror organisation based inside Pakistan. US has military presence, Chinese have military presence, so has NATO.... What a mess you have created of your country. 

Please for your own sake, its time to tell *everyone* of the above to get the hell out of your country. Our politicians are equally corrupt, our intel agencies are equally inefficient. But atleast we have not given every other country a free pass to be inside India and play their dirty game at their will. 

Pakistani can take care of their country on their own.

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## sivadreams

sivadreams said:


> Thanks Jana, Can you help me locating the runway here in Google Map. I am novice you see.


 





here it is I found it. Sorry there was many more Naval bases in Karachi! This one is close to the runway. PAF base Faisal is within the limits of PNS. How come no immediate support from the Air Wing?


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## Areesh

mafiya said:


> T-Faz,are you following the news regularly? did you read the news, when navy buses were attacked, Azad Baloch of BLA specifically accepted the responsibility beside the TTP. what made you think that BLA is not again involved in it as DAWN has reported Baloch separatists claimed responsibility again


 
Sir jee according to our Mr moderator we shouldn't accuse BLA of this attack even if it claims since all evils are because of maulvis or arabs or zia etc etc.

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## Safriz

only Mehran base was attacked...why the threads title says mehran-faisal base? its misleading


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## Awesome

PNS Mehran - Google Maps

Are these the Orions? There were 4 of them?


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## T-Faz

Areesh said:


> Sir jee according to our Mr moderator we shouldn't accuse BLA of this attack even if it claims since all evils are because of maulvis or arabs or zia etc etc.


 
I know its difficult for the likes of you to understand things but BLA does not have any support mechanisms in Karachi to be able to carry out such attacks.

Lets blame the Amreeki agents, Hinjews, Zionists and whatever that comes to mind.

Even if our very own Pakistani's were the attackers, they must be called a foreigner.

What a joke?

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## sivadreams

sivadreams said:


> here it is I found it. Sorry there was many more Naval bases in Karachi! This one is close to the runway. PAF base Faisal is within the limits of PNS. How come no immediate support from the Air Wing?


 


safriz said:


> only Mehran base was attacked...why the threads title says mehran-faisal base? its misleading


 
Look at the map you will get an idea. Even I too was mislead and had a hard look at Google Maps to get things clarified.


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## Awesome

safriz said:


> only Mehran base was attacked...why the threads title says mehran-faisal base? its misleading


 
The two are joined to the hip. Probably same base that serves PN from the air.


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## muse

from News.inn



Terrorists Attack PNS Mehran karachi chief of pakistan navy staff
Local, World | Big Yaad | May 23, 2011 at 6:36 am

Terrorists Attack PNS Mehran karachi chief of pakistan navy staff: Karachi: heavily armed terrorists mounted brazen attack on the Pakistani Navy installation near the Sharae Faisal on Sunday, killing at least four people, officials said, the fourth attack on a heavily guarded naval facility in the last four weeks.

*Head of Public Relations Pakistan Navy Irfanul Haq said the simultaneous terrorist attacks mounted at the base of the front door, which is also called Faisal Gate, the door of the museum or the back door, and another hand weakness Shah Faisal Colony.

He said they fired several rockets on arrival at the base, one of which struck a guard house an aircraft P3C Orion maritime surveillance caught fire. He said no other aircraft were damaged, but other sources, at least three P3C Orion-had been damaged. Besides the P3C aircraft, there was also Fokker, Defender and helicopters on the base.*

*However, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said the militants had attacked from the rear base.
*
We were able to limit them to a building and an operation that will kill or capture them.

*According to the spokesman Navy Commander Salman commands, Navy and Marines were to take action against terrorists. He said the exterior fence was manned by the Rangers.

Haq has confirmed four wounded in the attack and identified two of the deceased as a firefighter and Lieutenant Khalilur Rehman Yasir.

Commander Ali Salman said: An exchange of gunfire with the terrorists continues. His shot is blurred and we have launched a search operation.

This is a terrorist attack. More than 10 terrorists are inside. They attacked a place in the air and naval base located on a Pakistan Air Force, said the housing ministry official Sharfuddin Memon Sindh.

Witnesses said some of the terrorists came three black vehicles.

It was reported that some foreigners, probably from America, was the target of the attack, but Navy spokesman has denied these reports. Smoke and flames were seen rising from less than five seats, one of them was near a fuel tank.

AFP photographer said he had heard up to 10 explosions and bursts of gunfire periodically.

army commandos in the five or six trucks were seen entering the base, while several vehicles Rangers also reached the top spot.
*
The police have learned not to enter the base.

Officials said that terrorists had taken hostage and were engaged in a fierce gunbattle with security forces.

They added that between 15 and 20 of the assailants were inside the base, and had attacked three housing hangar.

Al-Qaeda led by Taliban militants who have vowed to avenge the killing of their leader Osama bin Laden, the U.S. special forces have conducted several attacks after his death on May 2.

The latest attack evoked memories of an assault on the Pakistani army headquarters in Rawalpindi in 2009 and revived concerns that even the best institutions remained in the country remain vulnerable to the militants.

The attack occurred about four weeks after two bombs hit buses carrying members of the Navy, killing four people and wounding 56.

He did not have direct responsibility requires the latest attack, however.

At the same time Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani immediately sent to Karachi for Interior Minister to coordinate security efforts for the implementation of civil and military officials, his office said in a statement.

President Asif Ali Zardari also condemned the terrorist attack in the PNS Mehran in Karachi.

He said that these cowardly acts will not deter the country from terrorism.

The confrontation between the terrorists and commands the Navy has maintained the submission of this report.

six terrorists to death during arrest and 4

Lieutenant Yasir Khalil Naik nad death PNS Mehran, Executive Director, the republication of the Navy

Pakistans navy chief of staff of the terrorist attack inside the PNS Mehren and commando operations are still

September explosions and gunfire were heard inside the PAF Museum on Shahrah-e-Faisal Road in Karachi. Towering flames arises within the PNS Mehran complex. Eight to 15 terrorists came initial reports suggest the compound.

Ten explosions and gunfire were heard inside the PAF Museum, Shahrah-e-Faisal Road in Karachi. Towering flames emerged from inside the complex PNS Mehran. Eight to 15 terrorists in the compound indicates the first reports.

01:15

A tenth explosion was reported on the basis of PAF Tribune reporter Faraz Khan.

President Asif Ali Zardari condemned the attack.

1:10

CID police personnel and the army has come for an hour, but CID officers exciting, said Ahmed reports for Jung Express 24 / 7

However, only the fire is left inside.

The identity of four people suspected in the attack has not been confirmed.

12:58am

Tribune reporter composed Faraz Khan reports second explosion PAF.

Pakistan, the Navy spokesman confirmed no casualties and only two people were wounded so far. He confirmed that the PC3 Orion aircraft was attacked.

Naval depot, godown and attacked well, that is, the initial investigation.

Shooting continues on the inside of the PAF base.

compost pile has faded considerably.

DG PR Marine Irfanul Haq also confirmed two wounded in the attack.

00:50

The fire has spread to three locations to strengthen the reporting of Ahmed Jung Express 24 / 7 The fire is still visible when the terrorists attacked first.

Special forces, including army personnel and police arrived at CID fight against terrorists in the database.

Previous reports that Americans were present when the terrorists attacked P3C Orion have been refuted by a spokesman for the U.S. Embassy.

Twelve and forty-nine

The terrorists entered the back of the base, the sources said. Was no information about which devices were inside. The attack was well planned.

Karachi: Pakistani militants stormed the most important military bases in the countrys largest city late Sunday, start the explosions and gunbattles three weeks after the killing of the United States by Osama bin Laden. According DawnNews attackers may still be 10-12 in the base as reported at least six dead in the middle of a terrorist attack.

At least 10 people were injured in explosions and gunfire rang out at the sprawling base used by the Air Force and the sea in Karachi, where the local government has confirmed that the fund was less than the terrorist attack.

An AFP reporter saw dozens of soldiers and armed reinforcements enter the base command, where flames and smoke could be seen rising in the night sky. An AFP photographer heard seven explosions and periodic bursts of gunfire.

There was no immediate claim of responsibility, but Pakistani military has long been at the forefront of suicide gun and bomb attacks blamed on the countrys largest faction of the Taliban and other al-Qaeda militant groups .

The Taliban have threatened on several occasions recently the governments objectives and West Pakistan to avenge the killing of Bin Laden by the U.S. Navy SEALs Abbottabad garrison city near the capital Islamabad on May 02

Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has condemned Sundays attack, and ordered his interior minister to Karachi to coordinate security actions by the civil and military, his office said in a statement.

Commander Salman Ali, spokesman for the Pakistan Navy, told AFP that security forces have been battling the gunmen.

Exchange of fire with terrorists continues. The recovery is decreasing, and we have launched a search operation, he said.

This is a terrorist attack. More than 10 terrorists are inside. They attacked a place in the air and naval base located on a Pakistan Air Force, said the home ministry official Sharfuddin Memon the southern province of Sindh.

One of the four planes on the premises was damaged, he said, adding that at least 10 people were injured.

I have no information whether they are abusers or navy personnel. In October 2009, Taliban militants besieged the headquarters of the army in the garrison city of Rawalpindi in two days, killing 22 people and raised serious questions about why it took so long the army to suppress aggression.

Karachi, Pakistans financial capital, the port used for NATO supplies to ship about 130,000 US-led foreign troops fighting the Taliban in neighboring Afghanistan, have recently seen a spike in attacks by the army.

On 28 April, four members of the Navy and a passing motorcyclist killed in a bomb attack two days after four were killed in the bombing of the bus of the navy.

Last week, the Saudi diplomat was killed in hail of bullets on the way to work their consulate in the city, a few days after assailants threw grenades at a diplomat.

Pakistan apparently powerful security establishment has been humiliated by the discovery and the killing of al-Qaeda terrorist Manager unilateral U.S. Navy SEAL raid that shocked the conservative ally of Washington reports.

In a BBC interview Sunday, U.S. President, Barack Obama, said he was ready to order a mission similar to the one that killed bin Laden if another high-value target has been discovered in Pakistan or any other country.

We are very respectful of the sovereignty of Pakistan, but we can not allow someone who is actively planning to kill our people or people of our allies, we can not allow this type of planning is active materialize without us take some action, he added.

Earlier Sunday, thousands marched in Karachi to demand an immediate end to U.S. missile strikes in tribal area in northwestern Pakistan bordering Afghanistan, and urge that blocking NATO supplies across the country.

The activists of the Tehreek-e-Insaf (Movement for Justice) led by former cricket hero Imran Khan held two days a sit-in outside the Arabian Sea port, urging the government to end its cooperation with Washington its war against terrorism. - AFP


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## Developereo

At the risk of offending both *muse* and *AgnosticMuslim*, I would say that both are right, but not acknowledging the other half.

The civilian governments have been criminally inept, not to mention corrupt, and they won't get many takers for passing the buck on to the army for the country's problems.

Also, the security establishment top brass have to be held accountable for this infiltration of jihadi mindset within their ranks. The army and ISI, of all institutions, should be a model of professionalism and patriotism. They are here to defend Pakistan, not Islam, and if there is even a hint of a doubt about someone's total commitment, they don't belong in these institutions.

As for the army's budget, the solution is not to cut their budget but to increase revenues (tax reform) and fix the economy.

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## Safriz

Asim Aquil said:


> If you can get into PAF bases by the simple means of "Dewaarein Phalaangna"... Something went horribly wrong.
> 
> Our Army's leaders need to end their lavish lifestyles and get to business... It needs to fix itself from the top to the bottom. If terrorists can get in, the the US can get in and blow up our nukes as well.



that was true 20 years ago when we regularly sneaked in and out of Masroor airforce base without ever being caught...
If its still the same,its a shame..

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## Devil Soul

Lt Yasir(Shaheed) was leading the Rapid Action Force & was 1st @ site with his team......


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## Awesome

Four terrorists arrested!


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## T-Faz

Pakistan should do what Israel does to terrorists, they find them and ruthlessly kill them.

There is no other way apart from finding these people where ever they are and they must be punished for their actions against Pakistan.

Create a special group, their role must be to find and eliminate these terrorists, strike fear in the heart of these Islamist scum and only then will we get any war in this war.

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## Ajaxpaul

Jana said:


> Pakistan is already a battlefield for our enemies. the next target is Balochistan for sure and its HIGH TIME base should be given to CHINA in Gwadar


 
suppose gwadar is given to china, then what ? taliban wont attack? maybe not that base , what about other parts of pakistan? solution to the extremists lies with pakistan only, not with other countries. Next time a blast happens, you will repeat the same thing.

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## niaz

There have been too many such incidents to comment and repeat what has already been said. It is sad that two PC-3 Orions have been completely destroyed. However even worse is the loss of Navy & Rangers personnel? Planes can be replaced albeit with huge loss of money but human life is irreplaceable. You will see that after a few days all the noise will die down and there will be life until there is another such incident with another loss of life. 

TTP have claimed but many naïve Pakistanis would still blame Blackwater, RAW and Zionist agents. To my simple mind, who was really behind this incident is far less important. Most worrisome is the fact that despite security warning and open declaration by TTP & Al Qaeda that they are going to take revenge on Pakistan; how did so many terrorists manage to penetrate inside a high security target and destroyed extremely valuable naval assets? 

This is not the first time. TTP have done it at Army GHQ and attached many services installations such as Naval War College, training establishments and so on. Our services dont appear to follow once bitten twice shy rule; they are willing to accept losses again and again!

Dont you think this sends an ominous signal to rest of the world? It is implied that our armed forces are incapable of defending their own high value target? I am starting to wonder if our nuclear assets are really safe. Would you blame the West if they worry about nukes falling into the wrong hands?

Please dont think from the seat your pants and say that it is impossible. If you asked PN day before yesterday that your Orions could be destroyed, reply would have been the same. No security in Pakistan is fool proof. Reason being that a section of Pakistan society longer loves Pakistan. These people love Salafin, Takfiris, TTP and Al Qaeda more!!! Some do it out of hate of the US and Pakistan be dammed.

Mufti Mahmoud, chief of the JUI said after the fall of Dacca We were never party to the Sin of creating Pakistan. Munawwar Hassan of JI can also claim the same; JI leadership had dubbed the Quaid as Kaffir e Azam. This sentiment lingers on to this day. Naïve politicians such as Imran Khan have also joined this bandwagon. Pray tell me, why Dharna for stopping US drones? Does GOP have any control over it? Can Pakistan really stop it? TTP are local, by attacking Pak Armed Services TTP attack Pakistan State! Why not Dharna against TTP? Followers of TI can act as informers and help reduce the risk of terrorist attacks a little. Even if one innocent life is saved thru this, all the effort would worth it.

Suicide bombers, attackers of services installations etc., did not fall from the sky. These are home grown; somebody provides them with arms and facilitates their movements. Most important, the attackers had exact knowledge of when and where the assets are and they succeeded in entering a high security installation. If you tell me that these did not have inside help, you would be insulting my intelligence. 

IMO there is no doubt that there is an element inside the security services that facilitated this attack. This means that Americans were quite correct in the assumption that had they informed ISI, there was a good chance that Osama would have been spirited away

This is abut time when we have to be cruel to be kind. We must acknowledge the fact that there are bad apples within the armed services. Need of the hour is a massive screening of each and every member of the security and armed services to ensure that no one in any sensitive position has any links with extremist religious parties such as JI, JUI or any of the Jihadist organizations. All the bad apples must be rooted out. Unless s this is started with immediate effect, such attacks will continue.

It hurts my national pride but I am no longer against drone attacks. Even if one half of the people killed in drone attacks are innocent, at least the other half are terrorists who were potential attackers of Pakistan. We are in a state of WAR and it is a small price to pay compared to the national disgrace of being unable to stop having our own Naval based successfully attacked by the TTP. Pakistan appears to be incapable of stopping these savages and if some are eliminated thru drone attacks, so much the better.

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## Porus

Asim Aquil said:


> If you can get into PAF bases by the simple means of "Dewaarein Phalaangna"... Something went horribly wrong.
> 
> Our Army's leaders need to end their lavish lifestyles and get to business... It needs to fix itself from the top to the bottom. If terrorists can get in, the the US can get in and blow up our nukes as well.



hehe...our army thought that only their jawans knew how to jump over high walls like those of PM house, a huge mistake 

Joking aside, such a defective security and for such an important air base simply shows how incompetent our armed forces are.


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## Bratva

Developereo said:


> At the risk of offending both *muse* and *AgnosticMuslim*, I would say that both are right, but not acknowledging the other half.
> 
> The civilian governments have been criminally inept, not to mention corrupt, and they won't get many takers for passing the buck on to the army for the country's problems.
> 
> Also, the security establishment top brass have to be held accountable for this infiltration of jihadi mindset within their ranks. The army and ISI, of all institutions, should be a model of professionalism and patriotism. They are here to defend Pakistan, not Islam, and if there is even a hint of a doubt about someone's total commitment, they don't belong in these institutions.
> 
> As for the army's budget, the solution is not to cut their budget but to increase revenues (tax reform) and fix the economy.


 

There is a very simple fact that the secular guys can't swallow , why they forget Islam and Pakistan are synonyms for common masses. if a person in army having Islamic mindset then what is his mistake? He is the defender of a Islamic country afterall. So how can you make the army secular when your are hiring Muslims having firm believes ?

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## Nalwa

Windjammer said:


> Let me beat you with your own stick, every time an incident occurs, all the scum bag start making gloating claims but unlike your set up, the GOP seldom starts pointing fingers. It doesn't need an historian to work out that PN has no role in the WOT.


 
And if you'd have thought deep enough you'd have figured out the reason for the difference. We are able to show proofs or actually capture people that expose these links. Perhaps GoP realizes that these attacks are more an in-house job rather than a foreign hand.

And do you think terrorists like these care if PN wasnt involved in WoT? To them a military installation is a foreign collaborator and as much guilty as the GHQ. If they had the sense to distinguish and make such informed decisions, they wouldnt have chosen such a path, would they?


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## roadrunner

niaz said:


> It hurts my national pride but I am no longer against drone attacks. Even if one half of the people killed in drone attacks are innocent, at least the other half are terrorists who were potential attackers of Pakistan. *We are in a state of WAR and it is a small price to pay compared *to the national disgrace of being unable to stop having our own Naval based successfully attacked by the TTP. Pakistan appears to be incapable of stopping these savages and if some are eliminated thru drone attacks, so much the better.


 
..soo.. Pack your bags and head for Waziristan or wherever the next most likely location of a drone strike is and repeat the same mantra of it being a small price to pay. 

I think that your tune will change fairly quickly.

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## muse

> The civilian governments have been criminally inept, not to mention corrupt, and they won't get many takers for passing the buck on to the army for the country's problems.



First I'm never offended to be mentioned along with Agnostic

Now to bidness -- see, NO one, disagrees that these civilians are semi-literate nits -- but they are the freaking legal govt -- the army doe snot have ot like it - they have their own problems to fix and events suggest that don't do that well at all

Just turned on BBC - first question, can't protect a base how can they protect nukes

And this is exactly what the attack is supposed to generate -- and to force Pakistan into choices that will be see as confirmation that Pakistan doesn't get it and is reckless, dangerous, and has to be isolated.


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## Leader

niaz said:


> There have been too many such incidents to comment and repeat what has already been said. It is sad that two PC-3 Orions have been completely destroyed. However even worse is the loss of Navy & Rangers personnel? Planes can be replaced albeit with huge loss of money but human life is irreplaceable. You will see that after a few days all the noise will die down and there will be life until there is another such incident with another loss of life.
> 
> TTP have claimed but many naïve Pakistanis would still blame Blackwater, RAW and Zionist agents. To my simple mind, who was really behind this incident is far less important. Most worrisome is the fact that despite security warning and open declaration by TTP & Al Qaeda that they are going to take revenge on Pakistan; how did so many terrorists manage to penetrate inside a high security target and destroyed extremely valuable naval assets?
> 
> This is not the first time. TTP have done it at Army GHQ and attached many services installations such as Naval War College, training establishments and so on. Our services dont appear to follow once bitten twice shy rule; they are willing to accept losses again and again!
> 
> Dont you think this sends an ominous signal to rest of the world? It is implied that our armed forces are incapable of defending their own high value target? I am starting to wonder if our nuclear assets are really safe. Would you blame the West if they worry about nukes falling into the wrong hands?
> 
> Please dont think from the seat your pants and say that it is impossible. If you asked PN day before yesterday that your Orions could be destroyed, reply would have been the same. No security in Pakistan is fool proof. Reason being that a section of Pakistan society longer loves Pakistan. These people love Salafin, Takfiris, TTP and Al Qaeda more!!! Some do it out of hate of the US and Pakistan be dammed.
> 
> Mufti Mahmoud, chief of the JUI said after the fall of Dacca We were never party to the Sin of creating Pakistan. Munawwar Hassan of JI can also claim the same; JI leadership had dubbed the Quaid as Kaffir e Azam. This sentiment lingers on to this day. Naïve politicians such as Imran Khan have also joined this bandwagon. Pray tell me, why Dharna for stopping US drones? Does GOP have any control over it? Can Pakistan really stop it? TTP are local, by attacking Pak Armed Services TTP attack Pakistan State! Why not Dharna against TTP? Followers of TI can act as informers and help reduce the risk of terrorist attacks a little. Even if one innocent life is saved thru this, all the effort would worth it.
> 
> Suicide bombers, attackers of services installations etc., did not fall from the sky. These are home grown; somebody provides them with arms and facilitates their movements. Most important, the attackers had exact knowledge of when and where the assets are and they succeeded in entering a high security installation. If you tell me that these did not have inside help, you would be insulting my intelligence.
> 
> IMO there is no doubt that there is an element inside the security services that facilitated this attack. This means that Americans were quite correct in the assumption that had they informed ISI, there was a good chance that Osama would have been spirited away
> 
> This is abut time when we have to be cruel to be kind. We must acknowledge the fact that there are bad apples within the armed services. Need of the hour is a massive screening of each and every member of the security and armed services to ensure that no one in any sensitive position has any links with extremist religious parties such as JI, JUI or any of the Jihadist organizations. All the bad apples must be rooted out. Unless s this is started with immediate effect, such attacks will continue.
> 
> It hurts my national pride but I am no longer against drone attacks. Even if one half of the people killed in drone attacks are innocent, at least the other half are terrorists who were potential attackers of Pakistan. We are in a state of WAR and it is a small price to pay compared to the national disgrace of being unable to stop having our own Naval based successfully attacked by the TTP. Pakistan appears to be incapable of stopping these savages and if some are eliminated thru drone attacks, so much the better.


 
I dont know if IK is naive but iam sure you are stupid and well versed in hating...


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## Comet

Asim Aquil said:


> PNS Mehran - Google Maps
> 
> Are these the Orions? There were 4 of them?


 
So any one can get a good look at our bases... No wonder we are insecure.... Can any thing be done about these Google Images?


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## DelhiDareDevil

Is it really true some people are protesting against India involvement in the attack?


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## muse

mafiya said:


> There is a very simple fact that the secular guys can't swallow , why they forget Islam and Pakistan are synonyms for common masses. if a person in army having Ismaic mindset then what is his mistake? He is the defender of a Islamic country afterall. So how can you make the army secular when your are hiring Muslims having firm believes ?


 
Mafiya, you raise a excellent point but how is it that the Pakistan armed forces and the Pakistan state is not Muslim, however, people who reject Pakistan are Muslim?? Please explain, it will be instructive for these "seculars"


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## Developereo

T-Faz said:


> Pakistan should do what Israel does to terrorists, they find them and ruthlessly kill them.
> 
> There is no other way apart from finding these people where ever they are and they must be punished for their actions against Pakistan.
> 
> Create a special group, their role must be to find and eliminate these terrorists, strike fear in the heart of these Islamist scum and only then will we get any war in this war.


 
We can go one better. We can turn our greatest liability into an asset in this fight.

Since the indoctrination and training camps for these terrorists are within Pakistan, we can cut them off at the root. We have less control over the money coming in, but we can make at least sure the only terrorists we have to worry about are foreign ones and that they don't find sanctuary amongst our people/


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## Evil Flare




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## T-Faz

mafiya said:


> There is a very simple fact that the secular guys can't swallow , why they forget Islam and Pakistan are synonyms for common masses. if a person in army having Ismaic mindset then what is his mistake? He is the defender of a Islamic country afterall. So how can you make the army secular when your are hiring Muslims having firm believes ?


 
Your thinking is the root cause of all our problems.

This army belongs to *Pakistan*, it is supposed to defend *Pakistan*, it is supposed to fight for *Pakistan*.

Pakistan foots its bill, not Islam, Pakistan hosts this army, not Islam, Pakistan makes up this army, not Islam.

This army used to be a staunchly secular entity until it become an Islamist one and look how we suffer today.

Islam has a defender in Allah, it does not need an army to defend or fight for its honor.

There is a difference between being a Muslim and being an Extremist.

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## Windjammer

According to Rehman Malak, despite American denials, there were six US personal at the Air Base as well as eleven Chinese Nationals, however, during the fire fight, all seventeen were safely evacuated by the Rangers.


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## Evil Flare




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## Ajaxpaul

umairp said:


> So any one can get a good look at our bases... No wonder we are insecure.... Can any thing be done about these Google Images?


 
No only US bases in mainland US is blocked. Dont know about china though..


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## muse

Developereo said:


> We can go one better. We can turn our greatest liability into an asset in this fight.
> 
> Since the indoctrination and training camps for these terrorists are within Pakistan, we can cut them off at the root. We have less control over the money coming in, but we can make at least sure the only terrorists we have to worry about are foreign ones and that they don't find sanctuary amongst our people/



So what do you make of the decision to not do this? Anyway you look at this, to be honest to yourself, you run into a contradiction that really has just one explanation


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## Devil Soul

Rehman is saying that all terrorists r killed no one is arrested


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## Major Sam

My question: i'll appreciate the appropriate answer

Yesterday the pak. Navy was attackd. 
Taliban aceptd the responsibilty.
A month ago our air force was under threat . As pak. Army remaind underattack for last few years. 

Do u think its only taliban activities. 
There is no other force in world who want to attack our forces.

If its only taliban then whois financing them. Giving them the latest ammuniation. 
Why they r attacking pakistan. There is no need of sharia in india ,libya, syria, nd other 57 muslim countries. Why other muslim country dont suport pak. 
Many more question. But i got no answer for them.
Do u have the answers?


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## T-Faz

Windjammer said:


> According to Rehman Malak, despite American denials, there were six US personal at the Air Base as well as eleven Chinese Nationals, however, during the fire fight, all seventeen were safely evacuated by the Rangers.


 
Out goes the Amreeki agent theory and of the RAW involvement too because India would never back an attack on US and Chinese nationals through proxy.

If by any chance their involvement is revealed, the two powers of the world will pounce on them so India is out of the question too.

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## aks18

ajaxpaul said:


> suppose gwadar is given to china, then what ? taliban wont attack? maybe not that base , what about other parts of pakistan? solution to the extremists lies with pakistan only, not with other countries. Next time a blast happens, you will repeat the same thing.


 
than there will be more attacks by talibans if we hand over gawadar to chinese indians will increase the funding will provide them more high tech weapons n equipments.


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## Markus

Why are Pakistanis pointing fingers at India alone?
Even US will benefit if China does not get access to Gwadar.

Increased Chinese presence in Indian Ocean and Arabian Sea can also pose a problem to Diego Garcia.


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## T-Faz

Devil Soul said:


> Rehman is saying that all terrorists r killed no one is arrested


 
2 ran away, they are probably in the local religious-political party offices celebrating.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Asim Aquil said:


> If you can get into PAF bases by the simple means of "Dewaarein Phalaangna"... Something went horribly wrong.
> 
> Our Army's leaders need to end their lavish lifestyles and get to business... It needs to fix itself from the top to the bottom. If terrorists can get in, the the US can get in and blow up our nukes as well.


 
I could be wrong, but the sheer size of most large airbases (runway's, hangars, other infrastructure) means that they typically have simple fencing around the perimeter, and would require a lot of manpower to physically guard the entire perimeter. 

The size issue could be offset with CCTV coverage and spotlights around the entire perimeter, but that too would require considerable expense to put up, given the number of installations that need to be covered.


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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> Out goes the Amreeki agent theory and of the RAW involvement too because India would never back an attack on US and Chinese nationals through proxy.
> 
> If by any chance their involvement is revealed, the two powers of the world will pounce on them so India is out of the question too.


 

how many such attacks talibans have done in afghanistan on US bases ??


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## Devil Soul

As per RM 3 confirmed killed, 1 might b under debri & 2 r suspected(not confirmed) to have escaped


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## muse

Ran away?? Please say you are kidding -- Got in without a problem and out without a problem -- Don't we have a great army and armed forces, how competent they are at blackmailing civilians governments


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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> 2 ran away, they are probably in the local religious-political party offices celebrating.


 
yeah may be in Dar Ul Terror , your location is clearly showing how much you love your country by defaming its name.


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## Developereo

T-Faz said:


> Your thinking is the root cause of all our problems.
> 
> This army belongs to *Pakistan*, it is supposed to defend *Pakistan*, it is supposed to fight for *Pakistan*.
> 
> Pakistan foots its bill, not Islam, Pakistan hosts this army, not Islam, Pakistan makes up this army, not Islam.
> 
> This army used to be a staunchly secular entity until it become an Islamist one and look how we suffer today.
> 
> Islam has a defender in Allah, it does not need an army to defend or fight for its honor.
> 
> There is a difference between being a Muslim and being an Extremist.


 
I really wish people who consider themselves Muslim first and Pakistani second would show up at a Saudi -- or any foreign Muslim country -- airport without a visa. They will quickly get a reality check about this ummah nonsense.

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## S.M.R

umairp said:


> So any one can get a good look at our bases... No wonder we are insecure.... Can any thing be done about these Google Images?


 
These are just google images, to which any person can have access. Can you imagine the images that US special forces would have taken using satellites.


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## T-Faz

aks18 said:


> how many such attacks talibans have done in afghanistan on US bases ??


 
A number of the perviously but know NATO has learned from their mistakes.

Even though the taliban are still capable of attacking high security targets like the military hospital recently.


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## cheekybird

T-Faz said:


> 2 ran away, they are probably in the local religious-political party offices celebrating.


 
or maybe picked up and taken to da us embassy


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## muse

aks18 said:


> how many such attacks talibans have done in afghanistan on US bases ??


 

With the exception of the Jordanian double agent, none, that all killed before they even got close to the bases


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## Rocky25

usama waqas said:


> My question: i'll appreciate the appropriate answer
> 
> Yesterday the pak. Navy was attackd.
> Taliban aceptd the responsibilty.
> A month ago our air force was under threat . As pak. Army remaind underattack for last few years.
> 
> Do u think its only taliban activities.
> There is no other force in world who want to attack our forces.
> 
> If its only taliban then whois financing them. Giving them the latest ammuniation.
> Why they r attacking pakistan. There is no need of sharia in india ,libya, syria, nd other 57 muslim countries. Why other muslim country dont suport pak.
> Many more question. But i got no answer for them.
> Do u have the answers?


 
First of all, Let the dead soldiers soul RIP, I am not sure if the foolish Indian politicians have the guts to aid these courageous Taliban who takes on Army and Navy Head offices.... I have great regard for these Taliban who attacks the armed base with great courage. Not like the cowardly LeT terrorists who killed the unarmed in Mumbai... If they have guts they should have attacked Indian Army in Kargil.


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## Devil Soul

sharp featured fair colored guys.... young 20-22 .. suicide bomber around 25.. they were in black trouser & shirt ...


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## T-Faz

aks18 said:


> yeah may be in Dar Ul Terror , your location is clearly showing how much you love your country by defaming its name.


 
Dar-ul-Terror is the correct term as the place in infested with Jihadi's.

I cant run away from the truth, can I?

Being a patriot does not mean that I should be oblivious to realities.

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## Areesh

T-Faz said:


> I know its difficult for the likes of you to understand things but BLA does not have any support mechanisms in Karachi to be able to carry out such attacks.
> 
> Lets blame the Amreeki agents, Hinjews, Zionists and whatever that comes to mind.
> 
> Even if our very own Pakistani's were the attackers, they must be called a foreigner.
> 
> What a joke?


 
No support mechanism??? Karachi has a lot of Baloch population. And then their is Liyari and it's gangs who are also baloch by the way. Anyways since you aren't willing to accept the claim of BLA itself who am I to challenge you. Keep it up Mr Mod.

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## Major Sam

m agree with you ,


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## Devil Soul

Malik is saying that they were dressed like characters from star war movie .....


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## T-Faz

muse said:


> Ran away?? Please say you are kidding -- Got in without a problem and out without a problem -- Don't we have a great army and armed forces, how competent they are at blackmailing civilians governments


 
Only 4 have been killed, 2 supposedly ran away, dont know about the others.

I dont know if I should laugh or if I should cry.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Developereo said:


> At the risk of offending both *muse* and *AgnosticMuslim*, I would say that both are right, but not acknowledging the other half.
> 
> The civilian governments have been criminally inept, not to mention corrupt, and they won't get many takers for passing the buck on to the army for the country's problems.
> 
> Also, the security establishment top brass have to be held accountable for this infiltration of jihadi mindset within their ranks. The army and ISI, of all institutions, should be a model of professionalism and patriotism. They are here to defend Pakistan, not Islam, and if there is even a hint of a doubt about someone's total commitment, they don't belong in these institutions.
> 
> As for the army's budget, the solution is not to cut their budget but to increase revenues (tax reform) and fix the economy.


 
We are talking about a million plus personnel in the Armed forces of Pakistan (regular and reserves combined), not to mention the civilian staff employed in various departments. Extremists don't go around with banners proclaiming they are 'terrorist sympathizers'. To monitor all these personnel for 'extremist tendencies' would require a huge amount of resources. The more obvious ones are probably already being picked out and monitored, but those are not always the ones that are the risk.

Pakistan has put in place a pretty comprehensive personnel monitoring program for its nuclear program, but that covers a much smaller number of people - tens of thousands vs million plus. There are limits to what the Military alone can accomplish.


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## T-Faz

cheekybird said:


> or maybe picked up and taken to da us embassy


 
Well you keep believing that sweetheart.

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## Ajaxpaul

cheekybird said:


> or maybe picked up and taken to da us embassy


 
Yes that could be true, considering american policy towards terrorism, they could be taken to US for trail for terrorism against US nationals in the base.


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## Developereo

muse said:


> So what do you make of the decision to not do this? Anyway you look at this, to be honest to yourself, you run into a contradiction that really has just one explanation


 
Well, clearly, the security establishment thinks the jihadi card is still viable after American withdrawal and are saving them for later use. However, as we all acknowledge, a weapon that you cannot control any more and, worse, is used against yourself is no longer a reliable weapon.

Army needs to come up with plan B for Afghanistan and Kashmir cause this one is past its use-by date.


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## Mujahid




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## T-Faz

Developereo said:


> I really wish people who consider themselves Muslim first and Pakistani second would show up at a Saudi -- or any foreign Muslim country -- airport without a visa. They will quickly get a reality check about this ummah nonsense.


 
This mentality is the reason why we are losing this war.

Kuwait recently banned a number of Muslims country from traveling, they have even stopped travel and tourism.

Also the wikileaks release yesterday pointing to Arab funding.

Its all very clear, they just do not want to look at the facts.

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## monitor

i heard four terrorist capture and another six blow them up to avoid capture and most serious is some inside element help them carried this though i amd not confirm .


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## Ajaxpaul

2 of them ran away?? WTH? could be a media joke!!


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## SpArK

*Insiders Helped Militants Plot Naval Base Attack: Experts​*

Terming the Taliban attack on the Mehran naval air base as a "big security lapse", Pakistani defense and political analysts today said that "*insiders"* were facilitating the militants in their deadly agenda and asked the government and military to wake up to this.

The daring attack by the armed militants, who used rockets, grenades and heavy ammunition, has raised serious doubt over the military's ability to protect its key installations.

"It is a worrying thing this attack and is nothing but a serious security lapse on part of the navy," Air Vice Marshal (Retd) Shahzad Chaudhary, a defence analyst said.

He pointed out that the PNS Mehran was one of Pakistan's most important naval airbases with the latest equipment and aircrafts and for militants to attack it so easily and brazenly showed big loops in the security.

*"Just last month two bomb attacks were carried out on Naval buses in the city in which innocent people were killed and the naval installations should have been on high alert,"* after that, he said.

Another defence analyst, Ikram Saigal noted that after the killing of al-Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden on May 2 in Abbottabad by US forces, the Taliban had vowed to carry out revenge attacks.

"Despite that, for this incident to take place is a clear failure of security and intelligence and the government needs to really look deep down to prevent such attacks again," he said.

As security forces continued to battle 15-20 Taliban militants who struck to take control of the base housing naval maritime reconnaissance aircraft and naval missiles, Nasim Zehra, a political and current affairs expert, said the attack only highlighted the need for the government and military to accept there were insiders who were facilitating the terrorists in their actions.

*"It is not possible for these terrorists to have so much creditable information about the presence of the aircrafts on the base without inside help.
*

*"The fact that these militants have managed to hold off the security forces for the last 13 hours shows they came well drilled and prepared for the operation,"* Zehra said.

She said that it was time for the nation and armed forces to recognize they were fighting against a well organized enemy which is clearly getting inside help.

*"They are rogue elements apparently helping these militants."*

Kamran Khan, a well known political analyst said the attack had shaken the confidence of the Pakistan people.

*"It is time we stopped blaming others for our problems and seriously looked within our own to root out these terrorists.
*
"It is not possible that such an attack can be carried out with so much precision without help from insiders.

"We have to accept that Pakistan is now the hotbed of many Jihadi outfits and our intelligence and security agencies need to recognise this fact first," he said.

Some television channels also reported that the militants had taken hostages in their attack but Rehman Malik declined to confirm or deny this.

Malik said the clean-up operation was taking time because the security forces had to ensure the Naval installations were not further harmed and to capture as many attackers alive as possible.

The attack evoked memories of an assault on Pakistan's army headquarters in the city of Rawalpindi in 2009, and is a further embarrassment for the military, widely seen as the only properly functioning institution in Pakistan, in the wake of bin Laden's killing.

The military has come under intense pressure from the United States and its own people for failing to know that bin Laden had been living in a garrison town, north of the capital and near a top military academy, for years, and also for allowing five US helicopters to penetrate Pakistan's airspace and kill him.

As expected, the Prime Minister, Yousuf Raza Gilani condemned the attack and said he had spoken to the heads of the armed forces and told them to take decisive action against the terrorists who were enemies of the country.

"Such a cowardly act of terror could not deter the commitment of the government and people of Pakistan to fight terrorism," Gilani said in statement.

Admiral Noman Bashir, the head of Pakistan Navy said, it was too early to say whether it was a security lapse but the first priority now was to protect the installations and end the operation successfully.

The Taliban have stepped up attacks since bin Laden's death, killing almost 80 people in a suicide bombing on a paramilitary academy and an assault on a US consular vehicle in Peshawar.
FILED ON: MAY 23

news.outlookindia.com | Insiders Helped Militants Plot Naval Base Attack: Experts

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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> Dar-ul-Terror is the correct term as the place in infested with Jihadi's.
> 
> I cant run away from the truth, can I?
> 
> Being a patriot does not mean that I should be oblivious to realities.


 
these jihaid's were heros of you and your budy america before 1990s, now instead of doing something good for country you are just defaming image of pakistan more.. tell me attacking on few areas in a country makes whole country a place of terror ??? come on man you got a great platform you should bring up the positive side of pakistan instead of spreading disappointment.

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## majesticpankaj

This is the article i have found... hopefully it will provide some insights...

Why terrorists targeted the Pak naval base

B Raman 

Senior analyst B Raman explains the real motive behind the daring terrorist strike on a Pakistan military base in Karachi.



The Faisal Base of the Pakistan Air Force located about 10 kilometres from the Karachi international airport is what the PAF calls a joint user airfield. It is used by the PAF and the air arms of the Pakistan army and navy as well as by the VVIP squadron. All air surveillance movements over the sea -- whether by the PAF or by the army or by the PN -- are controlled from this base.

Since 1975, the operating base of the Naval Air Arm, called PNS Mehran, is located inside this airfield. All senior officers of the Naval Air Arm operate from PNS Mehran. 


The Naval Air Arm at PNS Mehran is headed by Commander Naval Aviation (COMNAV). Under him there are four Heads of Department designated as Commander Air (Cdr Air), Commander Air Engineering Department (Cdr AED), Commanding Officer MEHRAN (CO MEH) and Officer Commanding Naval Aviation Training School (OC NATS).

The squadrons of the Naval Air Arm are stationed in PNS Mehran. These are the P3C Orion Squadron (28 Sqn), the Atlantic Squadron (29 Sqn), the Fokker Squadron (27 Sqn), the Seaking Squadron (111 Sqn) and the Alouette Squadron (333 Sqn). 

While the Naval Air Arm was raised primarily to provide maritime surveillance capability against India, it has been playing, in addition, a counter-terrorism role since the US started its Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan in October, 2001. 

This counter-terrorism role consists of air surveillance to prevent any sea-borne intrusions of Al Qaeda and to detect any terrorist plans for attacks on ships bringing supplies for the NATO forces in Afghanistan. The supplies are landed in the Karachi port and then moved by trucks to Afghanistan.

While the Pakistani army and air force have no operational role to play in the US-led military operations in the Afghan territory against Al Qaeda and the Neo Taliban, the Pakistani navy is a member of the US-led international naval force which patrols the seas to the west of Pakistan to prevent any hostile activity which could hamper the operations in Afghan territory. 


The Combined Task Force 150, established at the beginning of Operation Enduring Freedom in 2001, comprises naval forces from France, Germany, Italy, Pakistan, the United Kingdom and the United States. 


The task force conducts maritime security operations in the Gulf of Aden, the Gulf of Oman, the Arabian Sea, the Red Sea, and the Indian Ocean. The leadership of the Task Force is rotated amongst the participating navies. A Pakistani naval officer has been commanding it off and on when the turn of the Pakistan navy comes.

On November 16, 2004, the US Defence Security Cooperation Agency announced that it had accepted Pakistan's request to buy seven P-3C Orion aircraft with T-56 turboprop engines, communications equipment, training devices, medical services, support and test equipment, engineering technical services, supply support, operation and maintenance training, documentation, spare/repair parts, publications, personnel training, training equipment, contractor technical and logistics personnel services, and other related support elements. The estimated cost would be $970 million.



The DSCA announcement added: "The command-and-control capabilities of these aircraft will improve Pakistan's ability to restrict the littoral movement of terrorists along Pakistan's southern border and ensure Pakistan's overall ability to maintain integrity of their borders." 
"Pakistan intends to use the proposed purchase to develop a long needed fleet of maritime and border surveillance aircraft. The addition of these aircraft will provide Pakistan with search, surveillance, and control capability in support of maritime interdiction operations and increase their ability to support the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom Operations; anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare capabilities; and a control capability over land against transnational terrorists and narcotics smugglers. The modernization will enhance the capabilities of the Pakistani Navy and support its regional influence and meet its legitimate self-defense needs. Pakistan is capable of absorbing and maintaining these additional aircraft in its inventory."

The first two of these aircraft were delivered in April 2010 and officially inducted into the Naval Air Arm at a function held at PNS Mehran on June 2, 2010. Some more of the remaining five have since been inducted, but their number is not known. These planes are generally kept in hangars belonging to the Naval Air Arm and operate from the joint user airfield.


The active role played by the Pakistani Navy in support of the NATO operations in Afghanistan has attracted the anger of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan. 

On March 4, 2008, two unidentified suicide bombers, operating in tandem, attacked the prestigious Naval War College located in a high security area of Lahore. They were both on motor-cycles. 


One of them rammed his motor-cycle against the security gate at the rear of the building breaking it open. The other drove through this opening into the parking area and blew himself up. 


Their target was the naval institution and not any particular individual or individuals inside. They wanted to demonstrate their ability to penetrate the campus and cause damage. Six persons were killed -- one of them a naval officer, three members of the security guards at the gate and the two suicide bombers.



On December 2, 2009, an alert official of the Pakistani naval intelligence in plain clothes and a naval security guard in uniform deployed outside the building of the Pakistan Navy Headquarters in Islamabad prevented what could have been a major terrorist strike against the Naval Headquarters by an unidentified suicide bomber. 


Spotting a suspicious-looking individual outside the NHQ, they stopped him and searched him. He turned out to be a suicide bomber wearing a concealed suicide vest. 


However, they could not prevent him from activating the explosive device in the vest. One person was killed on the spot and another succumbed to his injuries later.

Two Pakistani naval personnel -- a commissioned officer of the rank of sub-lieutenant and a sailor -- were among four persons killed in two separate but coordinated explosions in Karachi on April 26, 2011. The explosions targeted two buses of the Pakistan Navy which were transporting naval personnel to their places of work. According to available indications, the improvised explosive devices, which struck the buses, had been planted along routes normally taken by the buses and activated through mobile telephones.


According to the 'Daily Times' of Lahore (April 27,2011), the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan, as the Pakistani Taliban is known, claimed the responsibility for the blasts, and threatened more attacks on security forces. The claim was made in a telephone call to a foreign news agency by a person who identified himself as Ehsanullah Ehsan, a spokesman of the Taliban. 

He reportedly said: "Security forces will be targeted in the future as well, because they are killing their own people in Waziristan and elsewhere at the behest of the United States."



Since the raid by the Pakistani military commandos into the Lal Masjid in Islamabad in July, 2007, there has been a number of retaliatory attacks by the TTP against the army, the air force, the Special Services Group, the Inter-Services Intelligence, the para-military forces and the police. 


It is, however, believed that the attacks on the navy were connected to its role in providing maritime support to the NATO forces in Afghanistan. The navy had no role to play in the Lal Masjid raid.


The Pakistani authorities have been apprehending a surge in these attacks on the security forces, including the navy, in retaliation for the raid by US naval commandos into the residence of Osama bin Laden at Abbottabad on May 2, in which OBL was killed.


At around 10 pm on the night of May 22, an unidentified group of about 15 terrorists armed with explosives, rocket-propelled grenade launchers and assault weapons was reported to have managed to infiltrate into the PNS Mehran base through a side of the Faisal PAF base where a PAF museum is located and engaged in a fire fight with naval and other security personnel after destroying at least one -- according to some other reports two -- PC 3 aircraft kept in the hangars. The fire-fight was still going on at 3 am on the morning of May 23 when last reports came in.



It has been reported that the survivors among the attackers have taken some hostages and taken shelter inside a building in the base. According to unconfirmed reports, among the hostages are one or more Chinese military personnel working in the base. 
It has been further reported that some Americans and Turks were also working in the base. It is not known whether any of them has been taken hostage. At least 11 naval personnel are reported to have died in the fire fight so far. 

The daring attack and the inability of the navy to prevent it are likely to add to the feelings of humiliation in the Pakistani Armed Forces which have been prevalent since the Abbottabad raid. 


To deflect anger over the security failure at PNS Mehran, attempts could be made to divert suspicion against India. Extra vigilance and extra security would be required along our coast in general and in the Mumbai area in particular. 


Instructions should be issued to all concerned to avoid any statements and comments which could aggravate the paranoia of the Pakistani Armed Forces and to refrain from exhibiting any sense of glee over the discomfiture of the PAF.


http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-why-terrorists-targeted-pak-naval-base/20110523.htm

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## muse

Developereo said:


> Well, clearly, the security establishment thinks the jihadi card is still viable after American withdrawal and are saving them for later use. However, as we all acknowledge, a weapon that you cannot control any more and, worse, is used against yourself is no longer a reliable weapon.
> 
> Army needs to come up with plan B for Afghanistan and Kashmir cause this one is past its use-by date.


 

This was a point I was making to someone when I suggested that it's an insult to the intelligence of Pakistanis what we win Afghanistan and kashmir by losing Pakistan. And just a reminder, these were army projects, again, failures and yet these can't shoot straight gang imagine they have the right to tell the legitimate government how to run it's affairs


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## Cheetah786

KARACHI: A spokesman for Pakistans Navy said Monday that the PNS Mehran base in Karachi was back under control, 17 hours after militants attacked with guns, bombs and rockets.

In an ongoing operation at one of Pakistans main military bases, security forces are engaged in a battle against militants who stormed the base late Sunday night. At least 12 security officials have been killed in the operation that continues on Monday morning.

More than 10 terrorists late Sunday attacked the PNS Mehran base on Shahrah-e-Faisal Road, Karachi. At least 13 people, including Navy and Rangers personnel died in the attack.

Towering flames arose from inside the PNS Mehran compound throughout the night.

End of live updates

3:50 pm

Pakistan Navy official said several terrorists have been arrested but did not confirm the number. The arrested terrorists have been shifted to an unknown location.

3:40 pm

The Pakistan navy has issued an official statement that the operation to kill or capture terrorists who had taken over the compound is over.

Spokesperson added that all the naval assets at PNS Mehran have been secured.

Navy says PNS base under control after attack &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## Windjammer

T-Faz said:


> Out goes the Amreeki agent theory and of the RAW involvement too because India would never back an attack on US and Chinese nationals through proxy.
> 
> If by any chance their involvement is revealed, the two powers of the world will pounce on them so India is out of the question too.


 Albeit season is ripe for the conspiracy theories but I wouldn't hold it as a trump card my dear.
Zia's plane crash comes to mind with the US Ambassador and a General being part of the party.


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## Bratva

muse said:


> Mafiya, you raise a excellent point but how is it that the Pakistan armed forces and the Pakistan state is not Muslim, however, people who reject Pakistan are Muslim?? Please explain, it will be instructive for these "seculars"


 
Muse it's not the phenomena of today, one side is brandished "Kafir" and other side is brandished "Hard core Pious muslims". let's go back to history shall we, The first seed of this very phenomena were sowed during the era Fourth Caliph Hazrat Ali(RA). the "Khawarji" Phenomena. Which up to date continues.

Now since we always talk about penetration in the lower ranks. the personnels of these lower ranks are from middle or below middle class living in the areas where there is a mosque who is spewing Anti Americanism. So in the longer run, they are prone to negative exposure of ideologies, hence corrupting their minds and thinking themselves as the defenders of islam, who should cleanse the elements in army who are secular and working against Islam.

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

> "It is not possible for these terrorists to have so much creditable information about the presence of the aircrafts on the base without inside help.


Yet many here were able to figure it out through google images ....

Its an airbase, what else would be based there?

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## Haseebullah

Ran away.

What is this.?I thought they cordoned off the whole base.How can they run.This is insane.If this is true than it's shame for PN.

P.S:Stop bringing PA into this thread;they are not co-related.


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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> This mentality is the reason why we are losing this war.
> 
> Kuwait recently banned a number of Muslims country from traveling, they have even stopped travel and tourism.
> 
> Also the wikileaks release yesterday pointing to Arab funding.
> 
> Its all very clear, they just do not want to look at the facts.


 

reason of banning from kuwait is majorly the problem with the illiterate people who loves money and for money they do smuggling of drugs to kuwait ,


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## Rocky25

aks18 said:


> these jihaid's were heros of you and your budy america before 1990s, now instead of doing something good for country you are just defaming image of pakistan more.. tell me attacking on few areas in a country makes whole country a place of terror ??? come on man you got a great platform you should bring up the positive side of pakistan instead of spreading disappointment.


 
 So you consider the Jihad's as your hero's? Wow..... few areas cannot be Army and Navy head offices. So if tomorrow if he comes into your house and kill your sibling... Will you be the same.... What if one of the died solider is your relative.... Still Jihadi's are your heroes?


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## niaz

roadrunner said:


> ..soo.. Pack your bags and head for Waziristan or wherever the next most likely location of a drone strike is and repeat the same mantra of it being a small price to pay.
> 
> I think that your tune will change fairly quickly.


 
Even in the best times these peoiple thought the Pakistanis were fair game for looting and killing. I have been to tribal areas in the 1970's. 

There was a board as soon as you enter the area which said " You are entering tribal area on your own risk". I had one armed guard provided by the Esso Reseller Agent. Even then I was referred to as Punjabi and no one even claimed that they were Pakistanis. This has not changed to this day. They only want Pakistan to save them from drone attacks and for smuggling, not when it comes to paying taxes and for electricity. 

To Imran Khan lover: yes I am stupid but I am not a friend of enemies of Pakistan. Yes I also hate any one who attacks Pakistan and her people. Something that your leader appears unable to bring himself to do.

You also want to save enemies of Pakistan from US drones? Please go ahead and sit on the Kala Pull till kingdon come. I would pray for your success.

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## T-Faz

aks18 said:


> these jihaid's were heros of you and your budy america before 1990s, now instead of doing something good for country you are just defaming image of pakistan more.. tell me attacking on few areas in a country makes whole country a place of terror ??? come on man you got a great platform you should bring up the positive side of pakistan instead of spreading disappointment.


 
US&A is not a buddy, I have not even been to US&A in my life.

How can US&A be our ally when it supported these Jihadi's at the expense of our nation, to make matters worse, it absconded and left us with all the mess.

The only thing that has defamed this country is your Jihadi policy, your intolerant mindset and subsequent laws, the violent ideology that seeped through into Pakistan.

I continually try and show a positive image of Pakistan to others, in fact my lecturer at a foreign University gave a lecture on Pakistan to clear misconceptions. I also engage people where ever I can and try to dispel any wrong impressions.

We have been continually trying our best to bring a positive change and show the Pakistan that is tolerant, peaceful and very hospitable.

What does not help is the violent, intolerant and hate filled majority which is hell bent on destroying a country.

Its not me who who is damaging this country.

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## Developereo

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> We are talking about a million plus personnel in the Armed forces of Pakistan (regular and reserves combined), not to mention the civilian staff employed in various departments. Extremists don't go around with banners proclaiming they are 'terrorist sympathizers'. To monitor all these personnel for 'extremist tendencies' would require a huge amount of resources. The more obvious ones are probably already being picked out and monitored, but those are not always the ones that are the risk.
> 
> Pakistan has put in place a pretty comprehensive personnel monitoring program for its nuclear program, but that covers a much smaller number of people - tens of thousands vs million plus. There are limits to what the Military alone can accomplish.


 
Well, that's a fair point and I also understand that morale would plummet if everybody was always paranoid about being investigated by their coworkers. It's a tough situation.


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## omer85

the only way forward is separation of state and religion. in simple words follow the turkey model if we have to survive and develop.

the ones who consider themselves muslim first rather than Pakistani's should be kicked out. cleanse the FATA region, even if some 100,000 innocent have to die in a go. its better than some 100+ dying every day.

army needs to be ruthless. no need to arrest and trial, simply kill on the spot policy should be implemented.

islamic parites like jamat-e-islami, jamiat-e-ulma islam etc should be banned, and anyone affiliated with them be persecuted.

Republic of Pakistan is a way forward. islamic republic of Pakistan was a failed experiment.

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## DV RULES

roadrunner said:


> True. But now is the right time to shift all the bases in China's camp.


 
No, i don't think this is good idea, require as we can bear and not to let situation then on level where USA exists in our mind.


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## Rocky25

aks18 said:


> off fuk off u shiiity indian i am not talking about those fking jihadis heros who are being funded by ur fking agencies.


 
Mind your words...... I am capable of more than you! If you are not talking about the Jihadi's then who you are calling as hero's? India has nothing to do with it.... Even if Indian agencies are capable of doing this.... I am happy for my countries agencies as they never killed the unarmed civilians like you guys.... 

Bark as much as you can.... But it is a yet another black mark in Pakistani history.


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## aks18

niaz said:


> Even in the best times these peoiple thought the Pakistanis were fair game for looting and killing. I have been to tribal areas in the 1970's.
> 
> There was a board as soon as you enter the area which said " You are entering tribal area on your own risk". I had one armed guard provided by the Esso Reseller Agent. Even then I was referred to as Punjabi and no one even claimed that they were Pakistanis. This has not changed to this day. They only want Pakistan to save them from drone attacks and for smuggling, not when it comes to paying taxes and for electricity.
> 
> To Imran Khan lover: yes I am stupid but I am not a friend of enemies of Pakistan. Yes I also hate any one who attacks Pakistan and her people. Something that your leader appears unable to bring himself to do.
> 
> You also want to save enemies of Pakistan from US drones? Please go ahead and sit on the Kala Pull till kingdon come. I would pray for your success.


 

when there will be a drone strike to your neighboring house for the killing of a wanted terrorist and that strike took many peoples around your home than i will ask you was that strike justified ???

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## Devil Soul

aks18 said:


> reason of banning from kuwait is majorly the problem with the illiterate people who loves money and for money they do smuggling of drugs to kuwait ,


  hmmmmmmmmm


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## Rocky25

omer85 said:


> the only war forward is separation of state and religion. in simple words follow the turkey model if we have to survive and develop.
> 
> the ones who consider themselves muslim first rather than Pakistani's should be kicked out. cleanse the FATA region, even if some 100,000 innocent have to die in a go. its better than some 100+ dying every day.
> 
> army needs to be ruthless. no need to arrest and trial, simply kill on the spot policy should be implemented.
> 
> islamic parites like jamat-e-islami, jamiat-e-ulma islam etc should be banned, and anyone affiliated with them be persecuted.
> 
> Republic of Pakistan is a way forward. islamic republic of Pakistan was a failed experiment.


 
What about LeT, JuD? They are good if it helps Pakistani State policy?


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## S.M.R

Rocky25 said:


> Mind your words...... I am capable of more than you! If you are not talking about the Jihadi's then who you are calling as hero's? India has nothing to do with it.... Even if Indian agencies are capable of doing this.... I am happy for my countries agencies as they never killed the unarmed civilians like you guys....
> 
> Bark as much as you can.... But it is a yet another black mark in Pakistani history.


 
Read his post again and your reply as well. You will come to know reason for his said reply.


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## T-Faz

aks18 said:


> reason of banning from kuwait is majorly the problem with the illiterate people who loves money and for money they do smuggling of drugs to kuwait ,


 
Really, so they cut off everything even tourism and trade because a few Pakistani's are smugglers.

There is a very high number of Arabs who do a lot of negative things, should be cut off contact with all of them.

Its does not work like that.

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## Rocky25

innocentboy said:


> Read his post again and your reply as well. You will come to know reason for his said reply.


 
I read it.... Why is he reminding that Taliban was once a hero? And also I read his 'fu**ing', 'Shi**y Indian' posts as well.


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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> US&A is not a buddy, I have not even been to US&A in my life.
> 
> How can US&A be our ally when it supported these Jihadi's at the expense of our nation, to make matters worse, it absconded and left us with all the mess.
> 
> The only thing that has defamed this country is your Jihadi policy, your intolerant mindset and subsequent laws, the violent ideology that seeped through into Pakistan.
> 
> I continually try and show a positive image of Pakistan to others, in fact my lecturer at a foreign University gave a lecture on Pakistan to clear misconceptions. I also engage people where ever I can and try to dispel any wrong impressions.
> 
> We have been continually trying our best to bring a positive change and show the Pakistan that is tolerant, peaceful and very hospitable.
> 
> What does not help is the violent, intolerant and hate filled majority which is hell bent on destroying a country.
> 
> Its not me who who is damaging this country.


 
yeah yeah i am watching how much you do for finishing misconception regarding pakistan , internet is best source to do so and you are defaming here openly i dont know why admin have made you MOD :S lol @ jihadi policy there was nothing like bomb attacks before the 2001 suddenly everything started and created huge mess all around pakistan ,,, problem is with our fking leaders who cant do anything for this country fking looters .


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## bc040400065

This is what is left


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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> Really, so they cut off everything even tourism and trade because a few Pakistani's are smugglers.
> 
> There is a very high number of Arabs who do a lot of negative things, should be cut off contact with all of them.
> 
> Its does not work like that.


 

when world can tag you as terrorist on the bases of few fkin terrorists why cant kuwaiti govt can ban pakistanis on few bad peoples ???we have business in kuwait from last 40 years and ban is not recent from last 1.5 years there is ban on pakistanis for getting any kind of visa its nothing new its just because of the fking policies of our govt and foreign department of our govt.


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## T-Faz

aks18 said:


> yeah yeah i am watching how much you do for finishing misconception regarding pakistan , internet is best source to do so and you are defaming here openly i dont know why admin have made you MOD :S lol @ jihadi policy there was nothing like bomb attacks before the 2001 suddenly everything started and created huge mess all around pakistan ,,, problem is with our fking leaders who cant do anything for this country fking looters .


 
Really, there were no bomb attacks in Pakistan before, are you sure?

in 1987, the year I was born, more than 3000 people died in car bombings.

You clearly do not know much, these Jihadi's fought in Malakand division against the state in the Mid 90's.

They were killing Shia's by a handful and you seem to be completely aware of all this.

Your logic is clearly deranged.


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## monitor




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## T-Faz

aks18 said:


> when world can tag you as terrorist on the bases of few fkin terrorists why cant kuwaiti govt can ban pakistanis on few bad peoples ???we have business in kuwait from last 40 years and ban is not recent from last 1.5 years there is ban on pakistanis for getting any kind of visa its nothing new its just because of the fking policies of our govt and foreign department of our govt.


 
So its ok if the Kuwaitis do it but if your masters, the Americans do it then its wrong.

Why are you sticking up for the cowards of Kuwait, is your allegiance with Pakistan or them.

These Kuwaitis fund terror in our country and those cowards have the audacity to ban us.


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## All-Green

muse said:


> Zardari, Nawaz or any other civilian actually have the right to rule Pakistan - Pakistan belongs to us, civilians, not the Fauj - Agnostic seems to have made a career arguing that Pakistan belongs to the Army and we should all be happy to be the army's serfs -



Muse,

Why can the civilian leadership not exert its influence?
You think they cannot do it if they are sincere?
You think no one will support a sincere leadership?

The issue is lack of sincerity and shyness in face of adversity, the issue is personal corruption which can be easily exposed and used against these rightful rulers of Pakistan who think of the consequences and instead focus on making their tenure count in terms of personal gains.

It is the ideal time for a civilian leader to exert influence, but he shall have to win the nation over via some brave steps and personal sacrifices.
Pity no one is yet up for it.


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## DV RULES

mafiya said:


> T-Faz,are you following the news regularly? did you read the news, when navy buses were attacked, Azad Baloch of BLA specifically accepted the responsibility beside the TTP. what made you think that BLA is not again involved in it as DAWN has reported Baloch separatists claimed responsibility again


 
What similarity that the day when GOP announced that China will take hold of Gawadar port, CM Balochistan showed concerns over this. More over as it cleared that India involved to disrupt any China's move in Balochistan with supporting BLA.

Isn't picture clear?


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## huzihaidao12

barryusa said:


> You bet. We've given your country nearly $20 billion from our Treasury and we find that our most wanted criminal is enjoying the good life near your military academy!
> 
> I just had to find a forum where Pakistanis would feign shock and surprise. Now I find that Pakistanis compare an attack by terrorists (a Pakistani is being tried in the US in connection with that slaughter) on civilians to an attack on a military base!
> 
> I had to see it to believe it!


 
What is wrong? I am a Chinese, to remind you. As for the other, I did not say anything, just said, suddenly there are some new American members here. It is a fact. As to your reason, unless you show evidence. Otherwise, I do not believe, you can say anything you want.


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## mughaljee

In same month, 
1- Attack on Nevy Bus,
2- Another Attack on Bus,
3- Another Attack on Nevy, ?
what is this, 
*Noman Bashir sahib were on honey moon ?*


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## muse

> It is the ideal time for a civilian leader to exert influence, but he shall have to win the nation over via some brave steps and personal sacrifices.
> Pity no one is yet up for it.



Maybe the Pakistan armed forces will show these civilians how it's done - they may lead by example

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## Huda

*At least 11 navy and two rangers personnel were killed, while 14 security officials were wounded, he said, adding that it was unclear how many militant casualties there were.*

*Authorities sent in several dozen navy and police commandos to battle the attackers, who responded with gunfire and grenades. At least two P-3C Orions, maritime surveillance aircraft given to Pakistan by the US, were destroyed, he said.

The United States handed over two Orions to the Pakistan Navy at a ceremony at the base in June 2010 attended by 250 Pakistani and American officials. By late 2012, Pakistan would have eight of the planes.*



Meanwhile, the naval chief, Noman Bashir, has called a high level meeting to discuss the situation.


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## Awesome

niaz said:


> There have been too many such incidents to comment and repeat what has already been said. It is sad that two PC-3 Orions have been completely destroyed. However even worse is the loss of Navy & Rangers personnel? Planes can be replaced albeit with huge loss of money but human life is irreplaceable. You will see that after a few days all the noise will die down and there will be life until there is another such incident with another loss of life.
> 
> TTP have claimed but many naïve Pakistanis would still blame Blackwater, RAW and Zionist agents. To my simple mind, who was really behind this incident is far less important. Most worrisome is the fact that despite security warning and open declaration by TTP & Al Qaeda that they are going to take revenge on Pakistan; how did so many terrorists manage to penetrate inside a high security target and destroyed extremely valuable naval assets?
> 
> This is not the first time. TTP have done it at Army GHQ and attached many services installations such as Naval War College, training establishments and so on. Our services dont appear to follow once bitten twice shy rule; they are willing to accept losses again and again!
> 
> Dont you think this sends an ominous signal to rest of the world? It is implied that our armed forces are incapable of defending their own high value target? I am starting to wonder if our nuclear assets are really safe. Would you blame the West if they worry about nukes falling into the wrong hands?
> 
> Please dont think from the seat your pants and say that it is impossible. If you asked PN day before yesterday that your Orions could be destroyed, reply would have been the same. No security in Pakistan is fool proof. Reason being that a section of Pakistan society longer loves Pakistan. These people love Salafin, Takfiris, TTP and Al Qaeda more!!! Some do it out of hate of the US and Pakistan be dammed.
> 
> Mufti Mahmoud, chief of the JUI said after the fall of Dacca We were never party to the Sin of creating Pakistan. Munawwar Hassan of JI can also claim the same; JI leadership had dubbed the Quaid as Kaffir e Azam. This sentiment lingers on to this day. Naïve politicians such as Imran Khan have also joined this bandwagon. Pray tell me, why Dharna for stopping US drones? Does GOP have any control over it? Can Pakistan really stop it? TTP are local, by attacking Pak Armed Services TTP attack Pakistan State! Why not Dharna against TTP? Followers of TI can act as informers and help reduce the risk of terrorist attacks a little. Even if one innocent life is saved thru this, all the effort would worth it.
> 
> Suicide bombers, attackers of services installations etc., did not fall from the sky. These are home grown; somebody provides them with arms and facilitates their movements. Most important, the attackers had exact knowledge of when and where the assets are and they succeeded in entering a high security installation. If you tell me that these did not have inside help, you would be insulting my intelligence.
> 
> IMO there is no doubt that there is an element inside the security services that facilitated this attack. This means that Americans were quite correct in the assumption that had they informed ISI, there was a good chance that Osama would have been spirited away
> 
> This is abut time when we have to be cruel to be kind. We must acknowledge the fact that there are bad apples within the armed services. Need of the hour is a massive screening of each and every member of the security and armed services to ensure that no one in any sensitive position has any links with extremist religious parties such as JI, JUI or any of the Jihadist organizations. All the bad apples must be rooted out. Unless s this is started with immediate effect, such attacks will continue.
> 
> It hurts my national pride but I am no longer against drone attacks. Even if one half of the people killed in drone attacks are innocent, at least the other half are terrorists who were potential attackers of Pakistan. We are in a state of WAR and it is a small price to pay compared to the national disgrace of being unable to stop having our own Naval based successfully attacked by the TTP. Pakistan appears to be incapable of stopping these savages and if some are eliminated thru drone attacks, so much the better.


 
Agreed with 90% of your content - but disagree with allowing drone attacks. The fundamental problem of Pakistan is that there is no justice. Aap mere khandaan walon ko maaro ge, saying "Chal yaar koi nahi, Mullah Omar ko bhi toh maara na"... You think I would be satisfied with that answer?

If the Government is incapable of arresting and bringing the terrorists under a judicial process then that's the government's fault why should half the people die because of Pakistan's government's incompetence?

This is injustice and when you don't give justice, the only recourse is terrorism.

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## aks18

T-Faz said:


> So its ok if the Kuwaitis do it but if your masters, the Americans do it then its wrong.
> 
> Why are you sticking up for the cowards of Kuwait, is your allegiance with Pakistan or them.
> 
> These Kuwaitis fund terror in our country and those cowards have the audacity to ban us.


 

who were the master minds of jihadis ???? when did i said its ok if kuwait bans visa on pakistanis ???? i said its just because of your fking leaders you are getting such gifts from all over the world , pakistan's foreign relation department is busy in licking USA's A$$ and the govt just want to complete its 5 years :S


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## DarK-LorD

Hammy007 said:


> he is talking about facts you dumbhead



Well dumbhead Taliban claimed responsibility,it's even there in Wiki.


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## DelhiDareDevil

Is the Pakistan media blaming India by any chance?

Heard in this thread, people are protesting against India being involved.


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## aks18

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Is the Pakistan media blaming India by any chance?
> 
> Heard in this thread, people are protesting against India being involved.


 
i think you need a kick on ur A$$ now


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## muse

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Is the Pakistan media blaming India by any chance?
> 
> Heard in this thread, people are protesting against India being involved.



Sorry, no, not yet, but take a number and get back in line - I'm sure it'll come around.


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## Developereo

DV RULES said:


> What similarity that the day when GOP announced that China will take hold of Gawadar port, CM Balochistan showed concerns over this. More over as it cleared that India involved to disrupt any China's move in Balochistan with supporting BLA.
> 
> Isn't picture clear?


 
I agree that India/US/Israel/etc. benefit from creating trouble within Pakistan but, since we can't control India/US/Israel/etc., we should make sure the Baluchistan population is treated fairly and have no reason to support BLA and other separatist movements.


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## DV RULES

niaz said:


> It hurts my national pride *but I am no longer against drone attacks.* Even if one half of the people killed in drone attacks are innocent, at least the other half are terrorists who were potential attackers of Pakistan. We are in a state of WAR and it is a small price to pay compared to the national disgrace of being unable to stop having our own Naval based successfully attacked by the TTP. Pakistan appears to be incapable of stopping these savages and if some are eliminated thru drone attacks, so much the better.


 

This is what they wanted from Pakistanis.


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## DarK-LorD

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Is the Pakistan media blaming India by any chance?
> 
> Heard in this thread, people are protesting against India being involved.


 
No nobody in Pakistan is claiming that,if somebody is thinking that they need to go for a mental checkup.

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## wakapdf



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## pakdefender

niaz said:


> * Even in the best times these peoiple thought the Pakistanis were fair game for looting and killing. I have been to tribal areas in the 1970's.
> 
> There was a board as soon as you enter the area which said " You are entering tribal area on your own risk". I had one armed guard provided by the Esso Reseller Agent. Even then I was referred to as Punjabi and no one even claimed that they were Pakistanis. This has not changed to this day. They only want Pakistan to save them from drone attacks and for smuggling, not when it comes to paying taxes and for electricity. *
> 
> To Imran Khan lover: yes I am stupid but I am not a friend of enemies of Pakistan. Yes I also hate any one who attacks Pakistan and her people. Something that your leader appears unable to bring himself to do.
> 
> You also want to save enemies of Pakistan from US drones? Please go ahead and sit on the Kala Pull till kingdon come. I would pray for your success.


 
I agree with the above, there is a need to raise questions and encourage debate at the National level about the past, present and future status of FATA within Pakistan.


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## DarK-LorD

wakapdf said:


>



I love this guy.


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## Huda




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## JonAsad

Developereo said:


> I really wish people who consider themselves Muslim first and Pakistani second would show up at a Saudi -- or any foreign Muslim country -- airport without a visa. They will quickly get a reality check about this ummah nonsense.


 
Be a Pakistani First and show up at any country of the world without a visa- You will be treated the same-


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## aks18

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> No nobody in Pakistan is claiming that,if somebody is thinking that they need to go for a mental checkup.


 
yes as indians are our best budies they havent did any thing wrong against pakistan so we need to have mental check up ,, indians are soo innocent how can they support a terrorist group against pakistan ?? right ?


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## Guest01

roadrunner said:


> True. But now is the right time to shift all the bases in China's camp.


Why is there this keenness to lend your territory for foreign governments? Have you not seen the result of doing that since zia's time?

What is this affliction that raises the vassal state tendencies when there is a tough situation in pakistan. That, i am not able to comprehend. To have allies and friends is good and mature. But why the fascination to rent out one' defence and policies? Recently gilgit baltistan and now this keenness for gwadar and anyway the us and uae etc. bases.


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> No nobody in Pakistan is claiming that,if somebody is thinking that they need to go for a mental checkup.


 
wmd said teachers in Pakistan are protesting against India involvment.

I was just asking as its natural to blame ur enemy.


----------



## RazorMC

All-Green said:


> Why can the civilian leadership not exert its influence?


 
The reason is all too clear; greed.
Greed makes them corrupt and fearful of an exposure. These are ideal candidates for anyone seeking to blackmail them into following orders. We as individuals would not trust them then how can the military ?

If we had an honest leader who thinks of Pakistan and not personal gains, someone who shows integrity and wisdom in decision-making and possessing a clear vision for the future, then why wouldn't the military estabilishment accept his leadership ?

Looking at the current state of government and an absolute lack of concern for the people combined with a complete absence of governing prowess, it is safe to say that no-one in their right minds would call this a government, rather a _*Ghunda Raj*_

These people have no real street-power, just a handful of paid _karkuns_ to incite the mob and chant various slogans


----------



## Guest01

Jana said:


> Pakistan is already a battlefield for our enemies. the next target is Balochistan for sure and its HIGH TIME base should be given to CHINA in Gwadar


 If it is the BLA that you are worried about and if that is the reason of giving gwadar to china then help me understand that how will china claim legitimacy over the local BLA when pakistan cannot?


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## aks18

Guest01 said:


> If it is the BLA that you are worried about and if that is the reason of giving gwadar to china then help me understand that how will china claim legitimacy over the local BLA when pakistan cannot?


 
BLA is the same militant group which is being funded by RAW ???


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## DelhiDareDevil

aks18 said:


> BLA is the same militant group which is being funded by RAW ???


 
says who????????????


----------



## wakapdf

Why are Indians commenting in this thread???? and instead of giving sane arguments they are just trolling. Why is this being allowed by the mods??


----------



## Developereo

Glorious Resolve said:


> Be a Pakistani First and show up at any country of the world without a visa- You will be treated the same-


 
My point was that this ummah mentality is not shared by other Muslim countries. If they put Islam before nationality, they would welcome all Muslims regardless of their nationality. The fact that they don't means that Pakistani who think like that are living in fantasy land.


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## RazorMC

There is something I hadn't thought about: Why are thre so many residential buildings near a military base ??
Wouldn't it be better to have declared the area around bases as a '*No-Entry Zone*' and prevent any construction and unauthorized access ??

Just heard that two of the terrorists have escaped via the point of entry !!


----------



## DarK-LorD

DelhiDareDevil said:


> wmd said teachers in Pakistan are protesting against India involvment.
> 
> I was just asking as its natural to blame ur enemy.



Buddy I didn't write the last line directed at You,I was telling that If any Pakistani thinks that Ind is involved,they are very very wrong.Even there NSA accepted India never supported any terrorists.Even the World's most powerful man acc.that Pakistani's are too obsessed with India.


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## Stealth

T-Faz said:


> Your thinking is the root cause of all our problems.
> 
> This army belongs to *Pakistan*, it is supposed to defend *Pakistan*, it is supposed to fight for *Pakistan*.
> 
> Pakistan foots its bill, not Islam, Pakistan hosts this army, not Islam, Pakistan makes up this army, not Islam.
> 
> This army used to be a staunchly secular entity until it become an Islamist one and look how we suffer today.
> 
> Islam has a defender in Allah, it does not need an army to defend or fight for its honor.
> 
> There is a difference between being a Muslim and being an Extremist.


 
So never call SHAHEED when any soldier died! because Shaheed is whom who died for Islam "defend Islam against kufar"

Secondly why Commando and Military calling "ALLAH HU ALLAH HU ... ALLAH HU AKBAR" (in exercise) ????? better to call PAKISTAN. .. PAKISTAN ... PAKISTAN rather thn ALLAH - HU!


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## aks18

Developereo said:


> My point was that this ummah mentality is not shared by other Muslim countries. If they put Islam before nationality, they would welcome all Muslims regardless of their nationality. The fact that they don't means that Pakistani who think like that are living in fantasy land.


 

decisions of govt doesnt means local people hates pakistan


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## aks18

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Buddy I didn't write the last line directed at You,I was telling that If any Pakistani thinks that Ind is involved,they are very very wrong.Even there NSA accepted India never supported any terrorists.Even the World's most powerful man acc.that Pakistani's are too obsessed with India.


 
who is hel is NSA now ???


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## muse

Developereo said:


> I really wish people who consider themselves Muslim first and Pakistani second would show up at a Saudi -- or any foreign Muslim country -- airport without a visa. They will quickly get a reality check about this ummah nonsense.


 

These people don't have anything else, their entire life and identity is about their struggle -- all very revolutionary, even somewhat Franz Fannon - So I'm at the Dubai airport, at a shabby terminal, and I buy a sandwich and realize this guy looking at my sandwich - it was some 8 or 10 Pakistanis - Deportees -- they seemed hungry, so I bought them all lunch and we spoke some, they were all Pashtuns, and to a man expressed hatred of Pakistan - nothing goes unpunished -- 

I agree with the idea that their existence is the proof of state failure - I really do - on the other hand, like any man or woman, they want what they think is best for them - and they are convinced that the material world does not and will not hold much for them - I've argued that our focus should be on achievement in the material world -- that's what the hate for Pakistan was about, they were headed to failureistan, to hopelessistan, to a look in the eyes of their loved ones in which they were objects of pity.


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## DelhiDareDevil

how much did pakistan pay for PC orions or were they free?


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## DarK-LorD

aks18 said:


> who is hel is NSA now ???



NSA-National Security Adviser.Mentioned above is Ur former NSA Mr.Durrani.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

muse said:


> our Islamist crew is becoming desperate, instead o focusing on the airmen, sailors and the security and guard contingent, they are pointing fingers at all manner of foreigners - - This operation could not be possible without help from the inside, just like the Bus attacks


 
Your islamist friends are not your friends at all my dear... Dont be under any confusion on this point... 

Why do you think foreigners are angels and could nt possibly be behind these attacks?? is it coz they are white and the Islamists are brown?

Be a little sensible muse... If you have to investigate then everything and everyone should be investigated... and stop painting everyone with the same brush... The Islamists at least on this forum that I can see have consistently condemned all terrorist attacks against Pak Army... true they dont consider Pakistan as Islamic at all and dont approve of the American sponsored WOT... but your all high attitude on this issue is quite delusional considering the Secularists that are running this country including the Civilian as well as the Army elites have made themselves a laughing stock of the world... what is it? a group of less than twenty people destroyed millions of dollars worth our hardware? If the Secularists cannot provide security to our country perhaps it is high time that they take a back seat and let us the Islamists run the show... now smoke that in your pipe for a change...

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## aks18

DelhiDareDevil said:


> how much did pakistan pay for PC orions or were they free?


 
i think u really need a KIck n ur A$$ now or i should give this trophy including tendulkar in ur A$$


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Stealth said:


> So never call SHAHEED when any soldier died! because Shaheed is whom who died for Islam "defend Islam against kufar"
> 
> Secondly why Commando and Military calling "ALLAH HU ALLAH HU ... ALLAH HU AKBAR" (in exercise) ????? better to call PAKISTAN. .. PAKISTAN ... PAKISTAN rather thn ALLAH - HU!


 
Save your breath Stealth... He has no answer to questions such as these... Have nt you realized that yet?


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## JonAsad

DV RULES said:


> This is what they wanted from Pakistanis.


 
Like him- most of the people in Army and Civilian government- already have made up their minds- Thats why there no stopping drone attacks-

next thing on Ameriki agenda is to make them believe that military operations inside Pakistan just like they did in Abbotabad is also for their benefit- and the cookie is half baked already-

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## aks18

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> NSA-National Security Adviser.Mentioned above is Ur former NSA Mr.Durrani.


 
who believes on these A$$ Holes ???


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## cheekybird

DelhiDareDevil said:


> how much did pakistan pay for PC orions or were they free?


 
would love to know what u smoked today


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## DarK-LorD

cheekybird said:


> would love to know what u smoked today



Hey Chick Why don't U answer his proper question properly.


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## DelhiDareDevil

aks18 said:


> i think u really need a KIck n ur A$$ now or i should give this trophy including tendulkar in ur A$$



Calm down, me geting into a personal attack with you, will lead to me getting banned.

Rather not waste my time with you and tell me if Pakistan destroyed aircraft were given free or paid for?


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## Hammy007

i dont understand what sort of taliban 'jehadi islamic' terrorists as our members niaz t-faz are claming, makes a tatto on his body, wears western cloths and keeps 1 inch small beard???

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## manojb

DelhiDareDevil said:


> how much did pakistan pay for PC orions or were they free?


At least $40 million a piece. $80 million plus other unseen damage total well above $100 million. THe way they attacked GHQ and army training college i saw this coming long back. Google maps can only give you ariel view. There are always weak spots in the periphery of any secure base. Only insider knows it!! Couple of days back there was thread about radicals in PAF airmen. THis proves it.Many PDF members rebuffed that claim saying wikileaks+NDTV are spreading propaganda. 
The cable quotes AVM Chaudhry as saying, You cant imagine what a hard time we have trying to get to trim their beards.

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## T-Faz

Stealth said:


> So never call SHAHEED when any soldier died! because Shaheed is whom who died for Islam "defend Islam against kufar"



Am I calling them shaheed, have I ever called them shaheed.

Ous soldiers are fighting Muslims too, they are not fighting any Kuffar, the terrorists call themselves Shaheed too.

Words and such titles are for temporary elevation of the sacrifices and are used by all sides.

This Kufar you speak of is exactly what the terrorists accuse this state of.



> Secondly why Commando and Military calling "ALLAH HU ALLAH HU ... ALLAH HU AKBAR" (in exercise) ????? better to call PAKISTAN. .. PAKISTAN ... PAKISTAN rather thn ALLAH - HU!



Yes, the question is why?

They are fighting for Pakistan, not Islam.

Such things negate the image of Islam and add a violent aspect to it.

This is Pakistani defence, not Islamic defence.


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## mirage 5000

today its proved Pakistani security is worse then Somalia Uganda at least no one dare to bomb Ugandan SU-30 on there base .shame left for Pakistan .


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## DV RULES

muse said:


> First I'm never offended to be mentioned along with Agnostic
> 
> Now to bidness -- see, NO one, disagrees that these civilians are semi-literate nits -- but they are the freaking legal govt -- the army doe snot have ot like it - they have their own problems to fix and events suggest that don't do that well at all
> 
> *Just turned on BBC - first question, can't protect a base how can they protect nukes
> *
> And this is exactly what the attack is supposed to generate -- and to force Pakistan into choices that will be see as confirmation that Pakistan doesn't get it and is reckless, dangerous, and has to be isolated.


 
Have you got something positive from BBC? 
We all know to what direction western media & their political bosses fixed attention. On 9/11 in USA, firing at US military base, 26/11 in India, Blasts in Atomic research center in India 2010 and many other nuclear security threats in India during 2010, tell me any one of western media pointed their guns toward Nuclear security of their countries?

So why you are taking too much serious these chronic propaganda against our country? 

Ok, naval base attacked by terrorist, so now need to thoroughly revise security and fix supporting elements with possible retaliation but not to let any body come on and open mouth against Nukes and national sovereignty.


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## DelhiDareDevil

manojb said:


> *At least $40 million a piece. $80 million plus other unseen damage total well above $100 million*. THe way they attacked GHQ and army training college i saw this coming long back. Google maps can only give you ariel view. There are always weak spots in the periphery of any secure base. Only insider knows it!! Couple of days back there was thread about radicals in PAF airmen. THis proves it.Many PDF members rebuffed that claim saying wikileaks+NDTV are spreading propaganda.
> The cable quotes AVM Chaudhry as saying, You cant imagine what a hard time we have trying to get to trim their beards.


 
That is some serious monetary damage. As well as lifes lost indeed. RIP.


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## Ajaxpaul

DelhiDareDevil said:


> how much did pakistan pay for PC orions or were they free?


 
Does it matter in any ways now??

Its like asking the dead mans parents, how much the coffins cost. I have seen only Indian politicians ask this type of questions.


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## JonAsad

Developereo said:


> My point was that this ummah mentality is not shared by other Muslim countries. If they put Islam before nationality, they would welcome all Muslims regardless of their nationality. The fact that they don't means that Pakistani who think like that are living in fantasy land.


 
The example you gave in your previous post would have been appropriate if Ummah has already been established- till now its a concept- I have seen Egypt- Syrian- Jordanians- Saudis- Emiraties talking in favor of Ummah aswell- The problem is people who think otherwise are in power- and reiteration of Ummah is the alternate if they are able to get rid of the corrupt monarchies ruling them- Democracy isn't-


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Asim Aquil said:


> Agreed with 90% of your content - but disagree with allowing drone attacks. The fundamental problem of Pakistan is that there is no justice. Aap mere khandaan walon ko maaro ge, saying "Chal yaar koi nahi, Mullah Omar ko bhi toh maara na"... You think I would be satisfied with that answer?
> 
> If the Government is incapable of arresting and bringing the terrorists under a judicial process then that's the government's fault why should half the people die because of Pakistan's government's incompetence?
> 
> This is injustice and when you don't give justice, the only recourse is terrorism.


 
Perhaps people like Niaz were never against drone attacks in the first place... Why should he care if other people's children are killed in such attacks? 

I fully agree with you Asim... this terrorism menace wont go away unless Drone strikes are stopped and some justice is given to the oppressed in our society... It is a laughable matter that the Extremist Secularists of our country want more of the same bloodshed on both sides... It also goes to show how utterly disconnected they are from reality and they have no capability to bring the current madness to a resolution... Ah well what does it matter if an innocent man dies in these drone strikes... its exactly the same mentality of the Takfiri terrorist who think the same about their terrorist attacks... 

I see absolutely no difference between these two groups... The extremist secularists and the takfiri kharijites...


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## Hammy007

this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths


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## muse

DV RULES said:


> H
> So why you are taking too much serious these chronic propaganda against our country?
> Ok, naval base attacked by terrorist, so now need to thoroughly revise security and fix supporting elements with possible retaliation but not to let any body come on and open mouth against Nukes and national sovereignty.


 

Please be reasonable - Being in denial or behaving in a stubborn manner is not going to help us out --- We are sure to be screwed again by the security apparatus because we shall never find out the truth of these events.


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## mirage 5000

Hammy007 said:


>


 
*lanat hai is kuty per or ke parents per jinhoon ne aysy janwer ko janam diya* .

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## footmarks

The problem lies in the fact that, either the average pakistani population has surrendered to these atrocities and accepted it as their fate (iI dont believe that) or they are very confused in regards to who is their actual enemy. Pakistan need a mass movement to show the corrupt leaders & bureocrats that they are walking on a thin line & should not test their patience. The way we in India did while supporting Anna hazare's movement against corruption. Every one from a 100+ yrs old freedom fighter to teenage students joined in. 1000 of people from all walks of life rallied against corruption & Govt have to succumb to the pressure.

True, Pakistan right now dont have any leader to follow, but even if there exist one, you will not recognize. because, you have so many conflicting ideologies. Some moderate pakistani think the problem lies within, some think it is outside hand. Some think fundamentalist & religious parties are good, some think they are doing more harm than doing good. Some support US attacks, some prefer Chinese involvement. Some feel terrorism is state sponsored & should be rooted out & some sympatesize with them. 

Democracy may have many shortcomings, but its beauty lies in the fact that time & again when politicians & bureocrats have crossed the limits, people have shown them their true "Aukaat".

I sincerely hope that Pakistani citizens will stand up together & demand answers from their leaders this time.

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## Guest01

aks18 said:


> BLA is the same militant group which is being funded by RAW ???


Irrespective of any speculation about the origin and the reasons for BLA existence, please help me understand that how does giving gwadar to china help if pakistan themselves are presumed unable to control the soverignity of it?


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## sid426

Hammy007 said:


> this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths



Well, I dunno, but he looks like an indian..I am just speculating...


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## xTra

Hammy007 said:


> this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths



How you get they are Tatoos, looks like bullet wound.

Don't know whether looks like Pakistani or Afghani and but am sure he looks like South Asian.


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## Hammy007

sid426 said:


> Well, I dunno, but he looks like an indian..I am just speculating...


 
, maybe after he used an extraordinary amount of fair and lovely


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## DarK-LorD

Hammy007 said:


> this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths



Looks Special Forces operatives.As you know New Qaeda chief is an ex Commando from Egypt,So Taliban might have access to some SF like training.That's why they were able to hold on for 15hrs.


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## xTra

sid426 said:


> Well, I dunno, but he looks like an indian..I am just speculating...



Do you think Indians & Pakistanis look different..


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## Ajaxpaul

sid426 said:


> Well, I dunno, but he looks like an indian..I am just speculating...


 
Yes brilliant analysis. looks like you are without a brain but....I am just speculating!!

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## Hammy007

xTra said:


> How you get they are Tatoos, looks like bullet wound.
> 
> Don't know whether looks like Pakistani or Afghani and but am sure he looks like South Asian.


 
the tv channel is reporting it, if it was a bullet wound it must be size of bullet hole


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## DV RULES

T-Faz said:


> *Dar-ul-Terror* is the correct term as the place in infested with Jihadi's.
> 
> I cant run away from the truth, can I?
> 
> Being a patriot does not mean that I should be oblivious to realities.


 
But you have to make a minor change;

Dar-ul-Terror by US, EU.

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## Riz

mirage 5000 said:


> *lanat hai is kuty per or ke parents per jinhoon ne aysy janwer ko janam diya* .


 
Please do not insult his parents, no one wants to bury his son with his own hands...........


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## JonAsad

Hammy007 said:


> this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths


 
It looked like a tank rolled over him- so flat- are those tattos or fatal bullet wounds-

I think shooting at his hands allowed the security forces to stop him from blowing himself up- Is it so?-


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## Hammy007

xTra said:


> Do you think Indians & Pakistanis look different..


 
most of them, yes, south indians dont even look like north indians


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## Developereo

Glorious Resolve said:


> I have seen Egypt- Syrian- Jordanians- Saudis- Emiraties talking in favor of Ummah aswell-


 
That's not ummah, that's pan-Arab nationalism.

The day they consider Persians, Turks, Malaysians, Africans and us south Asians as their equals, let's talk then.

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## JonAsad

mirage 5000 said:


> *lanat hai is kuty per or ke parents per jinhoon ne aysy janwer ko janam diya* .


 
Shakal say thora sa Dhoni lag reha hai -


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## Hammy007

Glorious Resolve said:


> It looked like a tank rolled over him- so flat- are those tattos or fatal bullet wounds-
> 
> I think shooting at his hands allowed the security forces to stop him from blowing himself up- Is it so?-


 
my point is, they dont look like talibans at all


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## DarK-LorD

Hammy007 said:


> this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths



Those are bullet wounds.Who told Muslims don't have tattoos my neighbor is Muslim & has a Man U tatoo.I will post his pic tomorrow.


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## Hammy007

talibans said they sent 22 men!!!!!

but reports say they were 4-7

talibans have got statistics wrong


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## sid426

xTra said:


> Do you think Indians & Pakistanis look different..



Sorry, May be i should have said south asian.


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## DarK-LorD

Glorious Resolve said:


> Shakal say thora sa Dhoni lag reha hai -



Lol By your comments looks like you have low IQ.


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## Hammy007

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Those are bullet wounds.Who told Muslims don't have tattoos my neighbor is Muslim & has a Man U tatoo.I will post his pic tomorrow.


 
talibans have long beards, they dont wear western cloths and they follow islam and shariah which doesnt allow to have tattos, your friend must not be a taliban

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

omer85 said:


> the only way forward is separation of state and religion. in simple words follow the turkey model if we have to survive and develop.


 
That can only be accomplished through social change a change in the mindset of most Pakistanis in support of seperation of religion from the State, and then having those Pakistanis go out and vote for political leaders willing to enforce that change through constitutional amendments, legislation and institutional reform.

Easier to say than do, especially when the largest 'liberal' party in Pakistan, the PPP, has not stood up against extremism and intolerance even when its own leadership has been targetted. Not to mention that this party has rock bottom approval ratings in any case, and is a poor choice to champion any sort of 'social reform'.

First we need political leadership that delivers on governance and security, then and only then can such a leadership push through the kind of change being referred to, and not invite a massive backlash.


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## farhan_9909

they are wearing clothes like soldiers

they dont have beard

seems like they are not from TTP
TTP talibans look like this


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## Hammy007

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> That can only be accomplished through social change a change in the mindset of most Pakistanis in support of seperation of religion from the State, and then having those Pakistanis go out and vote for political leaders willing to enforce that change through constitutional amendments, legislation and institutional reform.
> 
> Easier to say than do, especially when the largest 'liberal' party in Pakistan, the PPP, has not stood up against extremism and intolerance even when its own leadership has been targetted. Not to mention that this party has rock bottom approval ratings in any case, and is a poor choice to champion any sort of 'social reform'.
> 
> First we need political leadership that delivers on governance and security, then and only then can such a leadership push through the kind of change being referred to, and not invite a massive backlash.


 
liberals like musharraf brought this into pakistan, and liberals are tearing the country away

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## Hammy007

farhan_9909 said:


> they are wearing clothes like soldiers
> 
> they dont have beard
> 
> seems like they are not from TTP
> TTP talibans look like this


 
there was one retired brigadier giving an interview, he said these men the most modern weapons, and they had a perfect planning, they knew about the compund very well, it cant be simply just talibans


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## farhan_9909

Hammy007 said:


> there was one retired brigadier giving an interview, he said these men the most modern weapons, and they had a perfect planning, they knew about the compund very well, it cant be simply just talibans


 
and the stupid TTP has already taken the responsibilit

its been 6-7 years we are fighting with enemy in our own country and ISI still dont know who are they

are they only TTP or someone else too


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## T-Faz

DV RULES said:


> But you have to make a minor change;
> 
> Dar-ul-Terror by US, EU.


 
So our own did not work hand in hand with them


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## nomi007

we must to leave USA as soon as possible
this is not the war of the people of Pakistan
but our corrupt leaders says this is our war
just due to dollar this is our war
they are killing our innocents people because we are supporting USA


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Hammy007 said:


> talibans have long beards, they dont wear western cloths and they follow islam and shariah which doesnt allow to have tattos, your friend must not be a taliban


 
Actually this is what I was thinking when the Indians started blaming LeT for Mumbai operations...


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## Developereo

muse said:


> These people don't have anything else, their entire life and identity is about their struggle -- all very revolutionary, even somewhat Franz Fannon - So I'm at the Dubai airport, at a shabby terminal, and I buy a sandwich and realize this guy looking at my sandwich - it was some 8 or 10 Pakistanis - Deportees -- they seemed hungry, so I bought them all lunch and we spoke some, they were all Pashtuns, and to a man expressed hatred of Pakistan - nothing goes unpunished --
> 
> I agree with the idea that their existence is the proof of state failure - I really do - on the other hand, like any man or woman, they want what they think is best for them - and they are convinced that the material world does not and will not hold much for them - I've argued that our focus should be on achievement in the material world -- that's what the hate for Pakistan was about, they were headed to failureistan, to hopelessistan, to a look in the eyes of their loved ones in which they were objects of pity.


 
Yes, it's painful to watch poor Pakistani laborers being humiliated at Middle Eastern airports. Even Indians and Filipinos are not treated this badly.
Once again, its a function of Pakistan's economic and diplomatic clout, which is essentially nonexistent.

As for the second part, yes, Islam provides consolation against poverty by downplaying the materialistic aspects and emphasizing the afterlife, but this has been abused in Pakistan to excuse the State's failure in meeting the basic needs of its citizens. They have almost made a virtue out of being poor and uneducated.

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## Geronimo2011

Leaving aside the whole India Pak traditional rivalry.. Isnt the similarity of modus operandi between this and Mumbai uncanny??


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## Avatar

Hammy007 said:


> there was one retired brigadier giving an interview, he said these men the most modern weapons, and they had a perfect planning, they knew about the compund very well, it cant be simply just talibans


 
Why underestimate the Taliban ? It is only natural that after years of resistance they will only get better. You can download the best military training books for free on the internet. Even the Naxals built anti Helicopter weapons learning from books.


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## Juice

Hammy007 said:


> this jehadi terrorists have 2 tattos on his bodies and he doesnt even look a pakistan even n afghani, he is wearing western cloths


 
look like bullet holes...but if that's the tatoos they want...


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## DarK-LorD

T-Faz said:


> So our own did not work hand in hand with them



There's always Espionage.Possible that Taliban paid 1 million US$ to some insider to get intel.


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## S.M.R

Hammy007 said:


> my point is, they dont look like talibans at all


 


Hammy007 said:


> talibans said they sent 22 men!!!!!
> 
> but reports say they were 4-7
> 
> talibans have got statistics wrong


 
Well, I am always surprised to the Claims by TTP accepting the responsibility of every event, who verifies these statements? How do these Mother Fcukers call from an UNKNOWN place. Our fcuking media just ON AIR a blank call, as it is in race that who plays the news FIRST. I guarantee it that if someone from indian terrorists group would have called and claimed its responsibility, they must have asked "Who are you and how do we believe you, prove your identity first". However, their response is in total contrast why the claimant calls himself from TTP.

Well one thing is much clear that we are in state of WAR. We are facing gorilla war that can be termed as proxy war from our enemies.

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## Hammy007

let see the post martem report if they were taliban or not


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

Hammy007 said:


> liberals like musharraf brought this into pakistan, and liberals are tearing the country away


 
This is not simply about liberals or conservatives, rather the extremes on both sides that denigrate and vilify the other. If people want to make a case for separation of religion and State and convince Pakistanis to support it, then they should be allowed to do so and we should respect that position, even while arguing with civility against it if we disagree.

The same goes for the liberals, while they have every right to make their case for the direction they think the country should go in, they should do so rspectful of the conservative sections of society that support the role of religion in the State, while arguing against that position with civility.

Some argue that liberals are a significant minority in Pakistan and therefore should not be held to the same standard and their transgressions (in terms of uncivil discourse and denigration of conservatives) should be tolerated to a degree. I disagree - the liberals need to be held to the same standards as conservatives. Both should be condemned when they cross the line.

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## Dharmachakra

And now where is this heading to?
They are done with the GHQ and now Naval Air base, both of which are heavily guarded military zones.
Is thier next target Nuclear complexes? If yes, that would be a disaster in the making. We should burn these terrorists alive.


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## DelhiDareDevil

Developereo said:


> *Yes, it's painful to watch poor Pakistani laborers being humiliated at Middle Eastern airports. Even Indians and Filipinos are not treated this badly.
> *Once again, its a function of Pakistan's economic and diplomatic clout, which is essentially nonexistent.
> 
> As for the second part, yes, Islam provides consolation against poverty by downplaying the materialistic aspects and emphasizing the afterlife, but this has been abused in Pakistan to excuse the State's failure in meeting the basic needs of its citizens. They have almost made a virtue out of being poor and uneducated.



Yet Indians are targetted here as they worst enemy and nemesis, and much combine with China to take India out.

The earlier most people recognise this, the better social security for Pakistan in the future.


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## barryusa

Geronimo2011 said:


> Leaving aside the whole India Pak traditional rivalry.. Isnt the similarity of modus operandi between this and Mumbai uncanny??


 
Hardly. In Mumbai, Pakistanis attacked unarmed civilians at various public venues. The aim was to both slaughter civilians and strike fear into those wanting to business with and in India. The Indian first responders were local law enforcement.

In Karachi, Pakistanis attacked a well fortified military installation and targeted military assets. Looks like they were aiming at the aircraft. The Pakistani first responders were military police and commandos.

The disparity between an attack on Indian civilians (a hallmark of the so-called 'non-state' actors in Pakistan) and an attack on a military base cannot be more apparent.

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## jha

Channels reporting here that Taliban has confirmed they had sent 22 persons.. 5 Killed + 7 Grabbed... Where are the rest 10 ...?


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## DelhiDareDevil

Paks, dont you think India is keeping a high percentage of Pakistan reources on India and India border, it is affecting they ability to combat the terrorist more efficiently?


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## Hammy007

innocentboy said:


> Well, I am always surprised to the Claims by TTP accepting the responsibility of every event, who verifies these statements? How do these Mother Fcukers call from an UNKNOWN place. Our fcuking media just ON AIR a blank call, as it is in race that who plays the news FIRST. I guarantee it that if someone from indian terrorists group would have called and claimed its responsibility, they must have asked "Who are you and how do we believe you, prove your identity first". However, their response is in total contrast why the claimant calls himself from TTP.
> 
> Well one thing is much clear that we are in state of WAR. We are facing gorilla war that can be termed as proxy war from our enemies.


 
people will never know these terrorists, they will still remain a mistery, i dont know how always taliban excepts the responsibility be it a high profile gunned attack or be it suicide bomb, i dont understand, talibans are so illeterate and dumb to make suicide bombs, or they are so intelligent that they can penetrate high security areas and fight for 14 hours


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## Spring Onion

Hammy007 said:


> talibans said they sent 22 men!!!!!
> 
> but reports say they were 4-7
> 
> talibans have got statistics wrong :




they even claimed that attack in US city which turned out to be firing by own US lunatic soldier so lets ignore their claims and focus on who are behind this who have are planners and who are financiers .

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## Hammy007

jha said:


> Channels reporting here that Taliban has confirmed they had sent 22 persons.. 5 Killed + 7 Grabbed... Where are the rest 10 ...?


 
this is according to talibans, there were only 4-6, 4 killed and 2 escaped

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## DarK-LorD

Jana said:


> they even claimed that attack in US city which turned out to be firing by own US lunatic soldier so lets ignore their claims and focus on who are behind this who have are planners and who are financiers .



Madam You seriously believe someone other than TTP is involved in this.


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## Dharmachakra

barryusa said:


> Hardly. In Mumbai, Pakistanis attacked unarmed civilians at various public venues. The aim was to both slaughter civilians and strike fear into those wanting to business with and in India. The Indian first responders were local law enforcement.
> 
> In Karachi, Pakistanis attacked a well fortified military installation and targeted military assets. Looks like they were aiming at the aircraft. The Pakistani first responders were military police and commandos.
> 
> The disparity between an attack on Indian civilians (a hallmark of the so-called 'non-state' actors in Pakistan) and an attack on a military base cannot be more apparent.


 
Well Said.

I dont want to put salt on the wound. But I still remember that after mumbai attacks many pak netizens made fun that India a wanna be super power cant even take out 10 armed terrorists killing innocent civilians in the middle of the road on a broad day light.
Well that was a normal busy day with not even a traffic constable on the road or patrolling the streets. 
Now wots up with Pakistan military might? 
some odd 12 armed men entering into heavily fortified naval base and taking down C-130 while killing highly trained special forces and other armed personals?

Moral of the story: Mud slinging and making fun-off is much easy than guarding our own lands.

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## S.M.R

Jana said:


> they even claimed that attack in US city which turned out to be firing by own US lunatic soldier so lets ignore their claims and focus on who are behind this who have are planners and who are financiers .


 
This is exactly what I think. We need to understand our largest enemy and they way it is trying to turn our mind that our largest enemy is none but our inside people TTP, and to some extent they are successful in doing so. (Recent Nawaz Sharif Statement about our biggest enemy).


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## Spring Onion

Guest01 said:


> If it is the BLA that you are worried about and if that is the reason of giving gwadar to china then help me understand that how will china claim legitimacy over the local BLA when pakistan cannot?


 
 the BLA terrorists are as much ball less as their backers and financiers so NO i am not worrying Bull Shitt A. 

China must be given bases in Pakistan. we must start with Gwadar and station Chinese at other places too.

The big game is going to start in future


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## S.M.R

Hammy007 said:


> this is according to talibans, there were only 4-6, 4 killed and 2 escaped


 
So it is confirmed that TTP is not behind this.


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## Spring Onion

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Madam You seriously believe someone other than TTP is involved in this.


 *
YES i do believe many people are involved make it a racket of many rats including our own people (TTP and groupies) and outsiders too. *


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## S.M.R

Jana said:


> the BLA terrorists are as much ball less as their backers and financiers so NO i am not worrying Bull Shitt A.
> 
> *China must be given bases in Pakistan. we must start with Gwadar and station Chinese at other places too.*
> 
> The big game is going to start in future



And that is gonna be real pain in their Ar$e, the US wants the Gwadar base and if we give it to China then we may lead to get out of US pressure.


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## MumbaiIndians

Edited................................................


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## Hammy007

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> This is not simply about liberals or conservatives, rather the extremes on both sides that denigrate and vilify the other. If people want to make a case for separation of religion and State and convince Pakistanis to support it, then they should be allowed to do so and we should respect that position, even while arguing with civility against it if we disagree.
> 
> The same goes for the liberals, while they have every right to make their case for the direction they think the country should go in, they should do so rspectful of the conservative sections of society that support the role of religion in the State, while arguing against that position with civility.
> 
> Some argue that liberals are a significant minority in Pakistan and therefore should not be held to the same standard and their transgressions (in terms of uncivil discourse and denigration of conservatives) should be tolerated to a degree. I disagree - the liberals need to be held to the same standards as conservatives. Both should be condemned when they cross the line.


 
you are considering the talibans which dont contitute pakistan by making you case against conservatives and that to declare this country not an islamic republic

while there have been more then a decade of musharrafs enlightenment and the same enlightened NRO government which are trying to discriminate the conservative people and opening calling terrorists to these people, if the majority conservatives want islam as religion in politics then majority is the rule every where


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## Geronimo2011

Jana said:


> the BLA terrorists are as much ball less as their backers and financiers so NO i am not worrying Bull Shitt A.
> 
> China must be given bases in Pakistan. we must start with Gwadar and station Chinese at other places too.
> 
> The big game is going to start in future


 
So you plan to give up sovereignty to gain security (probably) ??? Why do you need Chinese to prevent these attacks. ?? What will they do that Pakistani military cant ??


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## Spring Onion

innocentboy said:


> And that is gonna be real pain in their Ar$e, the US wants the Gwadar base and if we give it to China then we may lead to get out of US pressure.


 

we must change, overhaul our entire foreign policy. its strategically important for us to hand over Gwadar to China and give some bases in Pakistan too.

its never too late for it

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## Dharmachakra

Jana said:


> the BLA terrorists are as much ball less as their backers and financiers so NO i am not worrying Bull Shitt A.
> 
> China must be given bases in Pakistan. we must start with Gwadar and station Chinese at other places too.
> 
> The big game is going to start in future


 
Doesnt this spill the muddy water into china too? Giving these scumbag terrorists a chance to venture into china? 

Once they succed in a couple of hi-profile strikes on chinese mainland, that will be all..... 

They china itslef will flooded with terrorism and rise of revolutionists, and what not?

Probably chinese if really smart, they will one do the money help but not dare to end-up getting struck in such a mess.


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## barryusa

Dharmachakra said:


> Well Said.
> 
> I dont want to put salt on the wound. But I still remember that after mumbai attacks many pak netizens made fun that India a wanna be super power cant even take out 10 armed terrorists killing innocent civilians in the middle of the road on a broad day light.


 
Have the 'non-state' actors from Pakistan ever attacked an Indian military base or Indian military assets?


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## Spring Onion

Geronimo2011 said:


> So you plan to give up sovereignty to gain security (probably) ??? Why do you need Chinese to prevent these attacks. ?? What will they do that Pakistani military cant ??


 
*Those countries which have given Indian bases, have they gave up their sovereignty ???
*


and last but not the least its NON of BHARATI business in the first place.


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## salmakh84

4 Killed, 2 escaped! - Rehman Malik
6 American and 11 Chinese engineers were at the base. - (SO, American allies, what do you say now? When will you stop $$$$$$$ and this proxy war?)






10 soldiers died, 15 injured.


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## Hammy007

one question is rehman milk declared without information that talibans, alquaeda are involved, when the operation was at its peak, after ops, he again startedcrying against imran khan and his dharna

i dont understand what agenda rehamn milk was carrying??


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## DarK-LorD

Jana said:


> the BLA terrorists are as much ball less as their backers and financiers so NO i am not worrying Bull Shitt A.
> 
> China must be given bases in Pakistan. we must start with Gwadar and station Chinese at other places too.
> 
> The big game is going to start in future


 
PA is not allowing large nos of NATO soldiers,Why on earth will they allow PLA troops.


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## Spring Onion

Dharmachakra said:


> Doesnt this spill the muddy water into china too? Giving these scumbag terrorists a chance to venture into china?
> 
> Once they succed in a couple of hi-profile strikes on chinese mainland, that will be all.....
> 
> They china itslef will flooded with terrorism and rise of revolutionists, and what not?
> 
> Probably chinese if really smart, they will one do the money help but not dare to end-up getting struck in such a mess.


 
bwahahahahahahahahahahahahaha oh man an Indian getting worried for CHina lolzz


nevermind its non of your business ask Chinese not to have base in Pakistan they will decide.

as a Pakistani i want many bases for China in Pakistan

---------- Post added at 06:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------




SR-71 BlackBird said:


> PA is not allowing large nos of NATO soldiers,Why on earth will they allow PLA troops.


 
NATO and PLA two different groups.

NATO Is invader PLA Is our friend. NATO Is imposed on us while PLA will be invited.


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## Geronimo2011

Jana said:


> *Those countries which have given Indian bases, have they gave up their sovereignty ???
> *
> 
> 
> and last but not the least its NON of BHARATI business in the first place.


 
Ma'am if we go by whether its Bharti Business or not, by that logic 90% of your posts are not your business.. Now that aside, its the intent of the grant of bases that i am referring to . You are talking about giving bases to Chinese as a remedy to the terror attacks.. Not a business transaction.. Hence my question... And finally, how will chinese bases solve the problem. They dont have any specific tools at their disposal that Pak military doesnt.


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## secularbuster

Geronimo2011 said:


> So you plan to give up sovereignty to gain security (probably) ??? Why do you need Chinese to prevent these attacks. ?? What will they do that Pakistani military cant ??


 
Why do you need the friendship of Russia and uncle sam? Pakistan needs China's friendship for the same reason and you cannot wish it into oblivion even if you try with all your zeal.


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## S.M.R

Hammy007 said:


> one question is rehman milk declared without information that talibans, alquaeda are involved, when the operation was at its peak, after ops, he again startedcrying against imran khan and his dharna
> 
> i dont understand what agenda rehamn milk was carrying??


 One point $ agenda.


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## Spring Onion

Hammy007 said:


> one question is rehman milk declared without information that talibans, alquaeda are involved, when the operation was at its peak, after ops, he again startedcrying against imran khan and his dharna
> 
> i dont understand what agenda rehamn milk was carrying??


 

*Yes i noticed late 4am when he arrived at the scene wearing that dulha mian jacket shining silver colour and was spitting venom against Imran Khan . *


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## Hammy007

also look at the ary propaganda, they are not letting speak those people at all who think americans are involved


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## Geronimo2011

Jana said:


> NATO and PLA two different groups.
> 
> NATO Is invader PLA Is our friend. NATO Is imposed on us while PLA will be invited.


 
You seem to have forgotten the times of Gen Zia when America was a dear friend  ..


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## roadrunner

Why are Indians mentioning China so much? 

Pakistanis aren't going to start believeing China is up to blowing up things in Pakistan, if that's what you're thinking is  

Just stick to India.. I dont know why so many of you are commenting ont his.


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## 1 ummah

o such an attack was accpected after osama drama!! step 2!! now pakistan wud be labbled under terrorists attack,so nato wud move here and will protect pak nukes an then control them and the biggest hurdle in their way will cease! and they will conquer the world!!

hahaha yes this is wat they plan *BUT ALLAH PLANS TOO AND ALLAH IS THE BEST PLANNER!!*


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## humanfirst

Jana said:


> they even claimed that attack in US city which turned out to be firing by own US lunatic soldier so lets ignore their claims and focus on who are behind this who have are planners and who are financiers .


 
ttp didn't claim that.They claimed attack in cia station which was rubbished by many but it later turned out that ttp was behind it.Same goes for times square bomb plot.Anyway ttp could not do it alone-some insiders must have been helping them with planning.


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## Haseebullah

Dharmachakra said:


> Well Said.
> 
> I dont want to put salt on the wound. But I still remember that after mumbai attacks many pak netizens made fun that India a wanna be super power cant even take out 10 armed terrorists killing innocent civilians in the middle of the road on a broad day light.
> Well that was a normal busy day with not even a traffic constable on the road or patrolling the streets.
> Now wots up with Pakistan military might?
> some odd 12 armed men entering into heavily fortified naval base and taking down* C-130* while killing highly trained special forces and other armed personals?
> 
> Moral of the story: Mud slinging and making fun-off is much easy than guarding our own lands.


 
Woah!They were P3C Orions


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## Hammy007

step by step america is getting ready to attacks on pakistan nuclear sites


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## Spring Onion

Geronimo2011 said:


> Ma'am if we go by whether its Bharti Business or not, by that logic 90% of your posts are not your business.. Now that aside, its the intent of the grant of bases that i am referring to . You are talking about giving bases to Chinese as a remedy to the terror attacks.. Not a business transaction.. Hence my question... And finally, how will chinese bases solve the problem. They dont have any specific tools at their disposal that Pak military doesnt.


 
90% of my posts are regarding your bharati propaganda against my country Pakistan.

whether Pakistan gives China base or not that is PURELY our own business and none of Bharati aka Indian business period.


2. when a country gets a base in foreign land or give base to any other country in their land then its surely is NOT for solving their problems but for strategic interests and our strategic interests is best served by handing over Gwadar to China and give China bases in our country.


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## Spring Onion

roadrunner said:


> Why are Indians mentioning China so much?
> 
> Pakistanis aren't going to start believeing China is up to blowing up things in Pakistan, if that's what you're thinking is
> 
> Just stick to India.. I dont know why so many of you are commenting ont his.


* 

Because i am calling for giving China a base in Pakistan and just the mere thought of this is making bharatis uneasy *


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## Spring Onion

humanfirst said:


> ttp didn't claim that.They claimed attack in cia station which was rubbished by many but it later turned out that ttp was behind it.Same goes for times square bomb plot.Anyway ttp could not do it alone-some insiders must have been helping them with planning.


 
NO that is separate incident. i am talking about firing incident in US military facility in US city


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## S.M.R

1 ummah said:


> o such an attack was accpected after osama drama!! step 2!! now pakistan wud be labbled under terrorists attack,so nato wud move here and will protect pak nukes an then control them and the biggest hurdle in their way will cease! and they will conquer the world!!
> 
> hahaha yes this is wat they plan *BUT ALLAH PLANS TOO AND ALLAH IS THE BEST PLANNER!!*


 
There is no doubt in that (bold part). But Allah has sent you in the world, with a brain, and shown you both the paths, now its up to you which path to choose. He is not planning for us rather, he wants us to plan ourselves. He will talk to us on day of judgement.

Now to the topic. Well I too much agree with you that its a part of great game, as the ONLY nuke country (with Muslims majority) is their main target.

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## S.M.R

humanfirst said:


> ttp didn't claim that.They claimed attack in cia station which was rubbished by many but it later turned out that ttp was behind it.Same goes for times square bomb plot.*Anyway ttp could not do it alone-some insiders must have been helping them with planning*.


 
So you agree with insiders help for an incident.


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## American Eagle

Immature outside of Pakistan comments of what are most likely youths who tend to repeat the baloney that blames India for Pakistan's woes are a waste of space on this site. India is the leading democracy and economy in Asia. China is the leading economy over India but certainly not a democracy.

Fake use of religion by terrorists, and the misuse of religion under prior Pakistani Presidents, both the late Mr. Bhutto and General Zia, were all a huge mistake.

It will take a strong effort but Pakistan still has one thing going for it...a largely free press and media. IF the media/press in Pakistan can stop priting and talking trash and false rumors and limit themselves to documented news facts with accompanying photos and film clips then the same media/press could lead the effort to help lead Pakistan to being a secular state, with freedom of religion for all.

A particularly stumbling block will be religious parties in the current Pakistani Parliament.

Perhaps a re-read and consideration of returning to the 1950 Pakistan Constitution might be a good starting point?

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## Spring Onion

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Ignore India but do ever think how BLA would be thinking? No, because you are too India centric like Obama said.


 
BLA is a terrorist organisation backed by our enemies so we dont care much what BLA will be thinking.


we will take on BLA more vigorously thats it


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## SMC

Pakistan needs to get ready for a war with US. No matter how unlikely a victory is, the war is inevitable and we need to do the best we can to prepare for it. I want each Pakistani citizen who owns firearms to get ready to shoot American terrorist soldiers like how they'd shoot an Indian one in the cities and where ever they see them. Time to get ready for yankee hunting.


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## Luftwaffe

Ban all jamatis/parties associated (shia/sunni and others)
Outs anyone out of Federal and Provincial Assemblies who are associated to jamatis so called islamic parties, Islam has been politicized this should end, shariat has been wrongly been interpreted here by islamic parties the core value or essence of shariat is to have a good clean governance with assured protection to the state and the people apart from fulfilling needs of the state which can be done by any elected party in power.
A law must be passed there is no need to take it as a bill to make it a law with consultations with islamic parties No Need, a straight notice should be issued that due to security reasons all islamic parties are to be banned for the next decade.

Regarding this operation, either PN has arrested couple of terrorists and lieing about it or couple of them really ran away. It is strange how they could have run away from the same area they entered does this mean security failed time and again. Why were choppers not flying? 

And remember MMA was ruling party in KPK during Musharraf's era and all these terrorists were being groomed stationed and happily created their safe havens, under the noses.

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## T-Faz

American Eagle said:


> Immature outside of Pakistan comments of what are most likely youths which tend to repeat the baloney that blames India for Pakistan's woes are a waste of space on this site. India is the leading democracy and economy in Asia. China is the leading economy over India but certainly not a democracy.
> 
> Fake use of religion by terrorists, and the misuse of religion under prior Pakistani Presidents, both the late Mr. Bhutto and General Zia, were all a huge mistake.
> 
> It will take a strong effort but Pakistan still has one thing going for it...a largely free press and media. IF the media/press in Pakistan can stop priting and talking trash and false rumors and limit themselves to documented news facts with accompanying photos and film clips then the same media/press could lead the effort to help lead Pakistan to being a secular state, with freedom of religion for all.
> 
> A particularly stumbling block will be religious parties in the current Pakistani Parliament.
> 
> Perhaps a re-read and consideration of returning to the 1950 Pakistan Constitution might be a good starting point?


 
I agree with you completely, our constitution is one that supports and encourages the use of religion for political/personal goals.

The problems are internal, the support is internal and until we overlook this fact, we will be stuck in this rut.

The only way forward is to be clear and root out this extremism, intolerance in our nation.


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## Hammy007

American Eagle said:


> Immature outside of Pakistan comments of what are most likely youths who tend to repeat the baloney that blames India for Pakistan's woes are a waste of space on this site. *India is the leading democracy and economy in Asia*. China is the leading economy over India but certainly not a democracy.
> 
> Fake use of religion by terrorists, and the misuse of religion under prior Pakistani Presidents, both the late Mr. Bhutto and General Zia, were all a huge mistake.
> 
> It will take a strong effort but Pakistan still has one thing going for it...a largely free press and media. IF the media/press in Pakistan can stop priting and talking trash and false rumors and limit themselves to documented news facts with accompanying photos and film clips then the same media/press could lead the effort to help lead Pakistan to being a secular state, with freedom of religion for all.
> 
> A particularly stumbling block will be religious parties in the current Pakistani Parliament.
> 
> Perhaps a re-read and consideration of returning to the 1950 Pakistan Constitution might be a good starting point?


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## Leader

T-Faz said:


> I agree with you completely, our constitution is one that supports and encourages the use of religion for political/personal goals.
> 
> The problems are internal, the support is internal and until we overlook this fact, we will be stuck in this rut.
> 
> The only way forward is to be clear and root out this extremism, intolerance in our nation.


 
when fascists will stop hating the other segment of the society...when the islamists will stop hating the liberal fascists segment of the society, and get out of the war of america, things will normalize, no need to shake the base.


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## Tshering22

Woah! Whatever was refuted on this forum is all happening! Earlier, the prospect of terror strikes against army basis was impossible; in GHQ it happened; the prospect of US striking against targets inside Pakistan was refuted; it just happened 2 weeks back. Now Navy base and military planes have been attacked! This leaves very little to imagination as to what can be next target (heavens forbid).

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## forcetrip

SMC said:


> Pakistan needs to get ready for a war with US. No matter how unlikely a victory is, the war is inevitable and we need to do the best we can to prepare for it. I want each Pakistani citizen who owns firearms to get ready to shoot American terrorist soldiers like how they'd shoot an Indian one in the cities and where ever they see them. Time to get ready for yankee hunting.


 
Are you going to write encouraging words of wisdom while we are fighting on the streets? We sure could use you here for this "yankee hunting". Consider this my formal invitation to you by the people of Pakistan.

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## Luftwaffe

raptor shall we start with Federal/Provincial assemblies.


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## Leader

RaptorRX707 said:


> How about to start Holocaust to shoot thousands terrorists and sympathizer scums within Pakistan inside....


 
if you can kill 150 million...most welcome....


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## razgriz19

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Looks Special Forces operatives.As you know New Qaeda chief is an ex Commando from Egypt,So Taliban might have access to some SF like training.That's why they were able to hold on for 15hrs.


 
could be true, but two main reasons why the operation took so long were that our security forces waited for the morning to come, second, the building they were hiding in had expensive hardware and so the SSgs were taken slow. a navy spokesperson said it.
and another thing was that the building it self was biggg!


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## SMC

forcetrip said:


> Are you going to write encouraging words of wisdom while we are fighting on the streets? We sure could use you here for this "yankee hunting". Consider this my formal invitation to you by the people of Pakistan.


 
If US attacks Pakistan I will come back to Pakistan ASAP.


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## Hammy007

American Eagle said:


> *Balochistan involes only native separatists*, same problem India and other nations with mixed ethnic groupings face in SW Asia, and of course the violent Taliban as backed and funded by al Qaida.
> 
> The GOP has long needed to clearly, publicly, over and over, focus what it is doing to be fair with jobs, resources, roads, schools, housing, you name it, for all of Balochistan.
> 
> Ethnic separatism coupled with religious zealotry is like pouring gas on a fire!


 


if alqaeda fund the talibans who arms the talibans except the americans in the region??


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## Abu Basit

American Eagle said:


> It will take a strong effort but Pakistan still has one thing going for it...a largely free press and media. IF the media/press in Pakistan can stop priting and talking trash and false rumors and limit themselves to documented news facts with accompanying photos and film clips then *the same media/press could lead the effort to help lead Pakistan to being a secular state, with freedom of religion for all.*
> 
> A particularly stumbling block will be religious parties in the current Pakistani Parliament.
> 
> *Perhaps a re-read and consideration of returning to the 1950 Pakistan Constitution might be a good starting point?*



What a wishful thinking- The constitution of Pakistan will remain as it is where the sovereignty belongs to GOD and no the humans. 

The problem is the dog which has fallen in the well, just changing water will not pure the well unless the dog is taken out. In our case, it's the Americans who should be thrown out of Pakistan as soon as possible.

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## Cheetah786

RaptorRX707 said:


> How about to start Holocaust to shoot thousands terrorists and sympathizer scums within Pakistan inside....


 
In west when some animals become a problem for Humans Governments issue license to hunt them benefit Revenue generation plus animals problem solved since Mostly FATA area is inhabited by Animals Pakistan Government should start issuing Kill visas Most terrorist sympathizer will tell me i am wrong am i am i isn't Talibans taking Money from Arabs to kill Pakistanis.


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## Windjammer

The Thread has turned on it's head.

Let's pay a tribute to the Navy Boys


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## SEAL

This attack is very well planned and impossible without external help TTP is on CIA-RAW payroll i hope someone will take revenge of this attack. 

Whats the replacement of P3C aircrafts?

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## Xeric

Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?

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## Abu Basit

Cheetah786 said:


> In west when some animals become a problem for Humans Governments issue license to hunt them benefit Revenue generation plus animals problem solved since Mostly FATA area is inhabited by Animals Pakistan Government should start issuing Kill visas Most terrorist sympathizer will tell me i am wrong am i am i isn't Talibans taking Money from Arabs to kill Pakistanis.



actually it's the sold out ruling elite and American slaves who should be taken out ...........


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## VelocuR

Xeric said:


> Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?


 

INDIA, so that means we start to blame INDIA?? Superb done by Terrorists plan.

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## DelhiDareDevil

fox said:


> This attack is very well planned and impossible without external help TTP is on CIA-RAW payroll i hope someone will take revenge of this attack.
> 
> Whats the replacement of P3C aircrafts?



You got 6 more coming in.


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## mastaan

fox said:


> This attack is very well planned and impossible without external help TTP is on CIA-RAW payroll i hope someone will take revenge of this attack.
> 
> Whats the replacement of P3C aircrafts?



You know what's sad... even now it's a conspiracy theory about a CIA/RAW angle to it... I am honestly worried about two things (not as an Indian, but as a fellow human being)...
1. Young lives of brave soldiers were lost today... And yet, there is no worry about how to help keep these young men alive...as they are always ready to make the ultimate sacrifice... Where is the concern for lack of security and governance
2. even if it was an external hand.. TTP and it's cohorts are still very much in Pakistan and even if your rambling was to be true (which I truly contest), these external parties could not have done anything without internal help... So, why don't you even address the issue of the 'internal element' and simply running to point fingers at almost everyone else?


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## Spring Onion

Xeric said:


> Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?


 
P-3 C orion surely is not used in mountains against militants ))))))) so you can understand who might had been benefited by damaging Pakistani naval defence


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## Leader

RaptorRX707 said:


> There are too many bearded mullah society, I don't mean to hate them, myself is moderate Muslim and respect other people. TTP, JUI, armed forces elements, ISI elements. Whatever they put symapthizer first, Pakistan second. What can we do better for Pakistan?


 
so on one hand you dont want to look bad by admitting that you hate those who are getting in your way, and on other you are pointing out... if a society cannot cooperate within it self, how will it survive against the external invasion? and tell you the truth the with external factor being minimized, 80% of our problems will be solved....and you wont feel the hate that you are feeling towards the other segment of the society.... be brave, dont lose hope, its not the end of the world...


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## Cheetah786

fox said:


> This attack is very well planned and impossible without external help TTP is on CIA-RAW payroll i hope someone will take revenge of this attack.
> 
> Whats the replacement of P3C aircrafts?


 
Americans CIA don't have to go through this much trouble to take out a plane they supplied to you they can simply refuse to sell you one every body with eyes can read the news Most support for these terrorist is coming from Arab states Not India as far as Revenge is concerned i think Americans did kill few more of the terrorist.

MIRAMSHAH: A US drone strike on Monday destroyed a vehicle in Pakistans Taliban and al-Qaeda-linked stronghold of North Waziristan on the Afghan border, killing seven militants, officials said.

The attack took place on the outskirts of Mir Ali, some 30 kilometres east of Miramshah, the main town of the district where US officials want Pakistan to launch an offensive against networks fighting in Afghanistan.

A US drone fired two missiles which hit a vehicle. At least seven militants have been killed, one security official in Peshawar told AFP.

Another intelligence official in Miranshah said two drones fired four missiles, hitting a van and killing at least seven militants.

I do not know whether there was a high-value target. We received reports that those killed in the van were all foreigners, he said.

Mondays attack was the eighth to be reported in Pakistans tribal areas near the Afghan border since US commandos killed Saudi-born terror mastermind Osama bin Laden in a secret raid in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad on May 2.


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## Dharmachakra

Xeric said:


> Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?


 
What if Orion destruction is part of the collatoral damage? like attention diversionary tactics? 
If India really want to destroy them, they got 120+ Bisons armed with BVRAMs.( lets not forget the history  )


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## Spring Onion

fox said:


> Whats the replacement of P3C aircrafts?


 
4 more will be given to Pakistan but when these will be that is point and above all will these be upgraded or will take time


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## Dr. Strangelove

1 ummah said:


> m so damn serioussss!!


 
REALY SO LET JUST KILL THOSE FOOLS


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## MumbaiIndians

Xeric said:


> Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?


 
Which country(ies) are scared of Pakistan-India coming closer? (Pakistan PM Gilani sitting with MMS during Cricket match, seems to have unsettled many in both sides of region).

*Both sides = east/west.

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## newdelhinsa

Xeric said:


> Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?


 
no one. 
These planes could have caused trouble to India in case of war but India is not at war with Pakistan. 
The planes were parked in open and were juicy targets, might have been in the line of fire. Not a rocket science to understand.
They had plenty of time if these planes were sole target to burn the third one and many others.


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## Xeric

razgriz19 said:


> my friend SSg arrived there early, but they said that there might be other people inside with terrorists, and they also might have explosive material which they could use to blow the civilians and themself up. thats why they waited till the morning, i kno its not an excuse but ur counting those hours in ur "10-11hour long operation"


 
Dont pay much heed to such posts. The main reason for a delayed operation was to remain bery bery cautious as regards to the conduct of the ops, so that 1) No more naval assets (the planes and gadgets etc)are damaged, because unplanned ops can result into the terrorists blowing themselves up/indiscriminate firing 2) To be certain if any hostages were taken, a hostage/no hostage scenario can define the difference between a successful or a failed operation.


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## Spring Onion

Dharmachakra said:


> What if Orion destruction is part of the collatoral damage? like attention diversionary tactics?
> If India really want to destroy them, they got 120+ Bisons armed with BVRAMs.( lets not forget the history  )


 
Only Indians can think and afford to inflict such things on theirself to blame other later just like saffron brigade did in Malagaon whereas* we cant afford to destroy our best line of defence viz a viz Sea on which we spent a HUGE money*


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## Ajaxpaul

razgriz19 said:


> my friend SSg arrived there early, but they said that there might be other people inside with terrorists, and they also might have explosive material which they could use to blow the civilians and themself up. thats why they waited till the morning, i kno its not an excuse but ur counting those hours in ur "10-11hour long operation"


 
I never said SSG came late. I was merely pointing out the wastage of crucial time....but there is no point arguing when everything is finished. RIP to the fallen soldiers.


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## Dharmachakra

fox said:


> This attack is very well planned and impossible without external help TTP is on CIA-RAW payroll i hope someone will take revenge of this attack.



This attack might be a part of a revenge attack. And this chain of revenge attacks will lead to? 
No man island?


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## Spring Onion

ajaxpaul said:


> I never said SSG came late. I was merely pointing out the wastage of crucial time....but there is no point arguing when everything is finished. RIP to the fallen soldiers.


 
NO they did not wast. they were taking utmost care keeping in view the vital installations and foreigners inside the base.


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## nForce

Cheetah786 said:


> Americans CIA don't have to go through this much trouble to take out a plane they supplied to you they can simply refuse to sell you one every body with eyes can read the news Most support for these terrorist is coming from Arab states Not India as far as Revenge is concerned i think Americans did kill few more of the terrorist.
> 
> MIRAMSHAH: A US drone strike on Monday destroyed a vehicle in Pakistans Taliban and al-Qaeda-linked stronghold of North Waziristan on the Afghan border, killing seven militants, officials said.
> 
> The attack took place on the outskirts of Mir Ali, some 30 kilometres east of Miramshah, the main town of the district where US officials want Pakistan to launch an offensive against networks fighting in Afghanistan.
> 
> A US drone fired two missiles which hit a vehicle. At least seven militants have been killed, one security official in Peshawar told AFP.
> 
> Another intelligence official in Miranshah said two drones fired four missiles, hitting a van and killing at least seven militants.
> 
> I do not know whether there was a high-value target. We received reports that those killed in the van were all foreigners, he said.
> 
> Mondays attack was the eighth to be reported in Pakistans tribal areas near the Afghan border since US commandos killed Saudi-born terror mastermind Osama bin Laden in a secret raid in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad on May 2.


 
this is one of the immediate effects of the attack on the Pak-naval base.Now,a significant number of Pakistanis will support the drone attacks which were gaining unpopularity among the common masses.


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## deckingraj

Jana said:


> P-3 C orion surely is not used in mountains against militants ))))))) so you can understand who might had been benefited by damaging Pakistani naval defence


 
You are right....why not being a little candid here....Obviously it is India...India will benefit the most by destroying the Naval assets...Anyways PN is too much for us and now by destroying the Orion's we can easily defeat them....In fact warships from India are already on the move 

When educated folks talks such nonsense what can be said about the ordinary person...For heaven sake look inside....

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## Safriz

the dead terrorist
body looks western.


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## omer85

attack on PNS mehran, destruction of two aircraft and death of navy/rangers men is NOT the sad part in this whole episode as it is part of collateral damage during the war our country is facing. however the sad part is the shouting from all the corners that *"attackers were not muslims/pakistanis, this is the job of CIA/RAW/MOSSAD"*.

how much more lives are needed to be lost before we wakeup ? how much more of our society needs to be devided before we come out denial ?

i am sure the esteemed Pakistani members of this forum are well educated and devout muslims, who would visit mosques regularly (mean every friday). and ofourse they must be obvious of the sermons being delivered there 

wasnt mumtaz qadri glorified accross the country, with sermons praising him in friday prayers ?
how many times have we heard the local mullah giving fatwas against shia/ahmedi/hindu/jew/christian?

green turban is the path to heaven, black turban is the way to glory/ white turban makes you true muslim/ oh kill the guy wearing red turban ....

and it was CIA who arranged for fatiha for osama in National assembly ? was it RAW that arranged for funeral prayer of osama infront of lahore high court being offered by lawyers ?

i could carry on for days and would not run out of examples of insanity in our society. but it would not be enough for the taliban/extremeism appologists.

even if we accept that the whole world is hell bent in destroying us and taking out our nukes,* should we think for a moment that it is us, our very own socity which presented them with this oppurtunity ????*

we would blame politicians and army for the present failures, but would forget that those people in government and army are part of us. they are from us and they are among us. so this makes us any different from them ? 

we live in Pakistan. whatever we have today is because of Pakistan. its not because we are muslims or punjabi/pathan/baluch/sindhi/kashmiri...

religion and democracy without education is the recipe of disaster. and we are cooking it from last 64 years.

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## Dr. Strangelove

LETS GO BACK TO THE THREAD 
WHAT IS THERE REAL TARGET THOSE PLANES OR FORIGNERS OR SOME ONE ELS????????


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## Spring Onion

DelhiDareDevil said:


> Jana has totally derailed the thread in last 2-3 pages, to India and China topic, instead of Karachi attack.


 
You are dragging India into this thread . i am on topic totally after Osama operation this attack on our Naval base and damaging our naval defence is all going to culminate at Balochistan the propaganda for which is already started by our enemies . We must be prepared for the future war in our province against the bigger powers along with local terrorists


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## nForce

safriz said:


> the dead terrorist
> body looks western.


 
can i get any link?


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## MumbaiIndians

Jana said:


> P-3 C orion surely is not used in mountains against militants ))))))) so you can understand who might had been benefited by damaging Pakistani naval defence


 
You are asking a recorded question. Its time to see bigger picture, my friend. The era of Pakistan-India rivalry has passed.

People are still missing why USA is angry over Pakistan. Its not because of OBL. Revisit cricket match and listen what Afridi said, after match.


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## Abu Basit

T-Faz said:


> I agree with you completely, our constitution is one that supports and encourages the use of religion for political/personal goals.
> 
> The problems are internal, the support is internal and until we overlook this fact, we will be stuck in this rut.
> 
> The only way forward is to be clear and root out this extremism, intolerance in our nation.



Some insane solutions are being given in this thread by seculars- I think, lets wake up and come back to the real world. This is the reality of "America" and it's sympathizers in Pakistan:

Only 11pc Pakistanis like US: survey


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## Spring Onion

wasm95 said:


> LETS GO BACK TO THE THREAD
> WHAT IS THERE REAL TARGET THOSE PLANES OR FORIGNERS OR SOME ONE ELS????????


 
*apparently the Pakistani Navy and its installations. they according to planned strategy destroyed the air-crafts . *


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## Xeric

Dharmachakra said:


> *What if Orion destruction is part of the collatoral damage*? like attention diversionary tactics?
> If India really want to destroy them, they got 120+ Bisons armed with BVRAMs.( lets not forget the history  )


 
Hmm...so you mean in order to save one's arse, one should just chop both his cheeks off, right?

As for the latter part, i'll refrain to comment as it would attract trolls, only that in order to destroy the Orions with your 120 plus Bisons you guys need to accept the destruction of a few dozen other air crafts of yours (as this would only happen in an event of war), this way (the terrorism way) one dont need to put 'their' men into harms way and yet achieve the goal - that's the basic essence of (state sponsored) terrorism. _Kabhi, kabhi kitabain perh laini chaiye..acha hota hai.._


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## Leader

Abu Basit said:


> Some insane solutions are being given in this thread by seculars- I think, lets wake up and come back to the real world. This is the reality of "America" and it's sympathizers in Pakistan:
> 
> Only 11pc Pakistanis like US: survey


 
had they been just secular, it would be acceptable, they are missionary school trained fascists...

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## mastaan

Jana said:


> Only Indians can think and afford to inflict such things on theirself to blame other later just like saffron brigade did in Malagaon whereas* we cant afford to destroy our best line of defence viz a viz Sea on which we spent a HUGE money*


 
I didn't quiet understand the meaning of your post... I mean it...

What I deduced is: Indians do such damage internally and then blame others... and Pakistan doesn't do it itself cuz you can't afford it and thats why blaming Indians for this? 

But, here is the problem... You did not destroy it, terrorists did. I don't even know by what logic are you already inferring that India has some part in it, when the operation just got over a couple of hours back and there is no news pointing in that direction... and instead of lamenting on the fact that these guys are literally running amock and your government has not been able to do anything about it (before or after it), you are blaming someone else (be it CIA or RAW or dunno who else)... I don't get it!


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## VelocuR

Luftwaffe said:


> raptor shall we start with Federal/Provincial assemblies.


 


Leader said:


> so on one hand you dont want to look bad by admitting that you hate those who are getting in your way, and on other you are pointing out... if a society cannot cooperate within it self, how will it survive against the external invasion? and tell you the truth the with external factor being minimized, 80% of our problems will be solved....and you wont feel the hate that you are feeling towards the other segment of the society.... be brave, dont lose hope, its not the end of the world...


 
Good point, how will 80% (accurate) will be solved problem? Pakistanis are divided, confused, and corrupt these days. They continue to believe it is CIA, RAW, Mossads, Alien, blaming others instead ourselves. It is serious insulting of our intelligence and mentalities, Pakistanis must look themselves including me and you, who support terrorists elements inside ? maybe millions... If US decide to get out of this situations, there will STILL more attack from ourselves, not outsiders. 

After OBL raid, Navy base attack, next F-16s/JFT attack, and then nuclear attack, I feel sorry I have no hope for the future of Pakistan. All we say cheap word is Pakistan Zindabad!


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## DarK-LorD

safriz said:


> the dead terrorist
> body looks western.



He looks like a Pashtun.


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## Spring Onion

safriz said:


> the dead terrorist
> body looks western.


 
post the pic


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## Xeric

MumbaiIndians said:


> Which country(ies) are scared of Pakistan-India coming closer? (Pakistan PM Gilani sitting with MMS during Cricket match, seems to have unsettled many in both sides of region).
> 
> *Both sides = east/west.


 Thankfully someone out of you guys can also think with is (upper) brains. That's what i wanted to hear.

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## Spring Onion

mastaan said:


> I didn't quiet understand the meaning of your post... I mean it...
> 
> What I deduced is: Indians do such damage internally and then blame others... and Pakistan doesn't do it itself cuz you can't afford it and thats why blaming Indians for this?
> 
> But, here is the problem... You did not destroy it, terrorists did. I don't even know by what logic are you already inferring that India has some part in it, when the operation just got over a couple of hours back and there is no news pointing in that direction... and instead of lamenting on the fact that these guys are literally running amock and your government has not been able to do anything about it (before or after it), you are blaming someone else (be it CIA or RAW or dunno who else)... I don't get it!


 
that was in reply to an idiotic blame by an Indian that Pakistan navy destroy it, itself to get attention.

2. i am not blaming India you should open your eyes and read carefully.


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## hembo

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> Point being that even this attack on a naval base resulted in minimal damage - the terrorists did no 'fly off' with a P3 or chopper.
> 
> Hypothetically, if such an attack did take place at a nuclear facility, the result would be the same - a few security personnel might be martyred, minor damage here and there, potential hostage situation, and eventually all terrorists killed.
> 
> There is simply nothing to suggest that an attack on a nuclear installation would result in a meltdown or any strategic assets being compromised. The amount of manpower and explosive material required to do that is something that is simply impossible for any terrorist organization to put together.


 
Is 10-12 hrs by strong group of 20-30 Scumbags sufficient to screw up Cooling system (including back up generator) etc and trigger a catastrophe? Even at this highly fortified naval base, it took about 12 hours to clear these morons?

Specially with valuable tips from Mumtaz Qadri type insider religious bigots, it appears to have some possibility. One has to ascertain the possibility to be doubly certain, the Pakistanis and all who can get affected by such possibility (*however remote it may be*) rather then summarily dismissing it as I-know-it-all.

Even if the nuclear assets are guarded extremely professionally, in the wake of repeated internal security failures, there is no harm in questioning oneself again and again and re re re -visit all the so called sound security measures in place.


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## my name is arya

bad dream is over 

thread is closed lets talks something new


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## VelocuR

*I now support DRONES ATTACK against militants scums terrorists sympathizers foreginers! *


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## Safriz

nForce said:


> can i get any link?


 
page 111 of this thread.


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

RaptorRX707 said:


> *I now support DRONES ATTACK against militants scums terrorists sympathizers foreginers! *


 
You changed your mind again?

I support Imran Khan views here.


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## mjnaushad




----------



## nForce

RaptorRX707 said:


> *I now support DRONES ATTACK against militants scums terrorists sympathizers foreginers! *


 
an immediate fallout...as I said before....


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## Safriz

hembo said:


> Is 10-12 hrs by strong group of 20-30 Scumbags sufficient to screw up Cooling system (including back up generator) etc and trigger a catastrophe? Even at this highly fortified naval base, it took about 12 hours to clear these morons?
> 
> Specially with valuable tips from Mumtaz Qadri type insider religious bigots, it appears to have some possibility. One has to ascertain the possibility to be doubly certain, the Pakistanis and all who can get affected by such possibility (*however remote it may be*) rather then summarily dismissing it as I-know-it-all.
> 
> Even if the nuclear assets are guarded extremely professionally, in the wake of repeated internal security failures, there is no harm in questioning oneself again and again and re re re -visit all the so called sound security measures in place.


 
the operation was prolonges to catch terrorists alive. they could have killed the terroriss within the first few hours but navy cheif insisted on catching the terrorists alive. which was done


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## DarK-LorD

If indeed they are Westerners they are likely from Germany as large no.s of German Muslims have fled Germany to join TTP,Qaeda etc.


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## Trisonics

One can point fingers at as many countries as one wants but one cannot deny this is yet another security failure and a huge embarrassment of PAK's military. It may be time to change the direction of that finger inward.

By laying blame on India, US etc you are only further embarrassing yourself over your Military's inept capabilities.


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## mjnaushad

safriz said:


> the operation was prolonges to catch terrorists alive. they could have killed the terroriss within the first few hours but navy cheif insisted on catching the terrorists alive. which was done


 
Was anyone captured Alive.... ??? I didn't read any such confirm news...


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## mastaan

Few question... Since I am still in office and current news are not accessible here... Has any initial breakthrough been made? Any statements from PN on who they suspect did this? What are the kinds of Capital losses will these 3 planes amount to? Any statements from US?


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## Spring Onion

mjnaushad said:


>


 
any other video ???


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## MumbaiIndians

Jana,

Coincidently, Pakistan having nuclear bombs is in Indian interests now.

Pakistan without Nukes, will invite INSTANT invasion from NATO and they will break it up into 3-4 states. There goes dreams of SAARC economic block into ashes!! Dollar happy, Euro happy and China happy!

See the big picture.


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## Safriz

now that some terrorists have been arrested alive. lets see what the investigation reveals. the dead terrorist with tatoos and all doesnt look pakistani. looks western.


----------



## Bratva

*Four of the six militants who were involved in the armed raid on Pakistans Naval air base have been eliminated in the retaliatory operation by the security forces while two managed to escape, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said here Monday.*

He put the number of martyred armed forces personnel at 10 and the injured at 15. 

Talking to media men here at Chief Minister House after his visit to the PNS Mehran at Sharea Faisal, the Interior Minister said the martyred troops would be awarded Sitara-e-Shujaat posthumously.

"The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) have claimed responsibility for the attack," Rehman Malik said.

He said two terrorists were killed by the security forces in clashes, another blew himself up in one of the buildings while body of the fourth is said to be in the debris. "They were wearing black shirts and trousers."

He said two naval surveillance planes P3C Orion were destroyed by the terrorists who were equipped with rocket propelled grenades (RPGs), LMGs and hand grenades.

Malik said other planes were towed away by Navy personnel assisted by Rangers out of the terrorists' firing range.

*He said 17 foreigners including 11 Chinese and 6 Americans were rescued by the Naval commandoes. The foreigners were there to give training to naval personnel about Orion planes.
*

Interior Minister said two other suspected terrorists were stated to be seen running away by the eye-witnesses at the base and added that the terrorists sneaked into the base from the back side by scaling the walls with the help of ladders.

"Two ladders and cutters were also found from the spot," he said.

The Minister said that the terrorists were between 22 to 25 years of age with fair and sharp complexion.

*He said the security personnel who achieved martyrdom included one officer Lt. Yasser Abbas, 3 firemen, 3 SSGN personnel, 1 sailor and 2 personnel of Pakistan Rangers.
*

The attack started at 10. 30 pm Sunday night and clashes continued till the operation was completed by personnel of Navy and Rangers by 3.30 pm on Monday.

Four of 6 militants killed in Naval operation: Rehman


----------



## DelhiDareDevil

WebMaster said:


> The terrorist looks like Indian trained Afghani pashtun.


 
How did you come to this conclusion, that they were Indian trained?


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## Safriz

i know there is a massive turk population in germany. but not sure turks are into terrorism. looks more related to .CIA


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## Spring Onion

mastaan said:


> Few question... Since I am still in office and current news are not accessible here... Has any initial breakthrough been made? Any statements from PN on who they suspect did this? What are the kinds of Capital losses will these 3 planes amount to? Any statements from US?


 
PN and Govt of Pakistan dont give statements about who is was involved unless investigation is done.

US has issued no such statement but i guess some small condemnation one


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## DarK-LorD

MumbaiIndians said:


> Jana,
> 
> Coincidently, Pakistan having nuclear bombs is in Indian interests now.
> 
> Pakistan without Nukes, will invite INSTANT invasion from NATO and they will break it up into 3-4 states. There goes dreams of SAARC economic block into ashes!! Dollar happy, Euro happy and China happy!
> 
> See the big picture.



Some Pakistanis might think Chinese govt.wants Pakistan to be prosperous,but the reality is they are doing this to fulfill their own needs.

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## S.M.R

1 ummah said:


> YES U R ABSOLUTELY RIGHT bro..but i m unable to understand wen will this ummah wake?? y r we tolerating all this?? y cant we pull zardar out n beat him hard...ahh jo anjam in agents ka hona chahiyae sialkot k lrko ka q huwa!


 
I would have agreed to your statement if you use the word "Pakistanis" instead of Ummah.

By going with your thinking, they consider the Pakistan as 'Ummah', whereas there is a few number of people who want Pakistan as Islamic State. Majority consist of liberal open minded who just take religion as "thing to be followed not to be imposed on others". While those few have penetrated in our society with the aim of imposing their thought on other keeping in mind whatever they are doing is for Islam and if they die they will be 'shaheed'.

Sialkot incident is irrelevant here; as per intelligence agencies reports both brothers were robbers.

What do we need to realize that What this so called TTP has the enmity with Pakistan and its security forces? They are just puppets of planners whose main agenda is destruction of Pakistan, declaring Pakistan as safe heaven for terrorists and a nation consisting of extremists.


----------



## mjnaushad

Trisonics said:


> One can point fingers at as many countries as one wants but one cannot deny this is yet another security failure and a huge embarrassment of PAK's military. It may be time to change the direction of that finger inward.
> 
> By laying blame on India, US etc you are only further embarrassing yourself over your Military's inept capabilities.


 
Yup another failure and we should start looking inside because these people are inside us .... But saying our enemies are not involved in supporting these groups would be total mistake.... India have history of supporting terrorism in Pakistan.... So if you are implying that India is some angel which wont take advantage of it and want me to believe this than you are living in lalaland. 

And i still cant digest the thing that why would they choose a hard target in Karachi and go specially for the P3s ... If they wanted such action they got 1000s of Army target from Peshawar to Lahore to Islamabad.


----------



## Safriz

mjnaushad said:


> Was anyone captured Alive.... ??? I didn't read any such confirm news...


 
the navy cheif 's press conference was transmitted live on ARY. He said he instructed SSG to capture them alive. and thats why operation was prolonges. said 4 were arrested alive.


----------



## Dr. Strangelove

safriz said:


> the navy cheif 's press conference was transmitted live on ARY. He said he instructed SSG to capture them alive. and thats why operation was prolonges. said 4 were arrested alive.


 
4 ARE KILLED NOT ARRESTED ALIVE


----------



## mjnaushad

safriz said:


> the navy cheif 's press conference was transmitted live on ARY. He said he instructed SSG to capture them alive. and thats why operation was prolonges. said 4 were arrested alive.


 
Yup... i read about 4 as well but the source was "security sources".... no names were given.... If they got some alive it will be huge success and will help in bringing down the whole network....


----------



## Bratva

*According to Rehman Malik out of 6, 4 were killed, two escaped, He didn't mention if any terrorist was captured alive. Media reports, No terrorist capture inside from the base. 4 suspects arrested from outside the base*


----------



## Dharmachakra

Xeric said:


> So you agree that india sponsors terrorism as part of it's state policy? That's courageous of you.


 
Why hesitate to call a spade as a spade.
Who is not doing it? US,EU,Russia,Iran, Israel,Saudi, UAE,China,Pakistan,........ everyone ofcourse. But we only entered the game lately.
And how terrorism started? it didnt just came out from no where. A desperate pakistan who is trying to grab that peice of kashmir back sponsored it. And US did the same with Pak help in Afghan.
Untill 2008 we have been taking hits every next month. If we do nothing, people both at domestic and international level will call as the thrid type.
Do what you gotta do and where you gotta do. You showed the way and now we will lead you.

When we talked peace, you showed middle finger with terrorism...... and now.....


----------



## Leader

WebMaster said:


> The terrorist looks like Indian trained Afghani pashtun.


 
how would you know they are indian trained and also pashtuns?
and secondly, rehman malik gave this picture....

and why on earth he would be having white joggers ????


----------



## S.M.R

RaptorRX707 said:


> I follow up news, it is clealry SSG is also incompetent and failure like ISI, Army, GHQ. A breakthrough 13 hours battles Pakistan never fought before in front of terrorists!


 
It seems that to you, it is time as measure of failure or success. They operation took so long just bcaz they were trying to capture those bsaterds alive. I still doubt the statement that 'no one captured alive'.


----------



## Mercenary

Abu Basit said:


> Some insane solutions are being given in this thread by seculars- I think, lets wake up and come back to the real world. This is the reality of "America" and it's sympathizers in Pakistan:
> 
> Only 11pc Pakistanis like US: survey



What would be the result if the question was, How Many Pakistanis Like US Visas?

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## Xeric

In order to achieve such a 'talent' (and master it) you people would be required to have a few hundred suicide blasts, a few hundred physical/armed assaults and a few more hostage rescue situation back in india, so are you ready?


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## Bratva

Naval Chief was addressing a press conference here after all the terrorists were eliminated in retaliatory operation by Pakistans armed forces to regain complete control of PNS Mehran. 

He said two destroyed aircrafts P-3C Orion were worth $40 million. Terrorists stormed PNS Mehran from Eastern corner and were well-trained sharpshooters. 

After securing entry into naval base, two of them got onto a tower while as many remaining hid themselves behind bushes, he revealed adding, they subsequently fired six rockets.

Nauman dismissed rumors of security breach. This attack could not be termed as security lapse, he stated.

Navy commandos reached the base three minutes after armed assault, he added. He said that Lieutenant Yasir led the retaliatory operation and was martyred in the process.

After the first assault, the terrorists were not allowed to continue attack any further, he added.

*To a question, Admiral Nauman Bashir said that terrorists succeeded to flee the base after assault*.

Militants targeted Navy, not aircrafts: Naval Chief


----------



## S.M.R

Xeric said:


> Just thinking out loud; which country is benefited the most by the destruction of Pakistani Orions..?


 
General Xeric's post is nail in the head.


----------



## Trisonics

mjnaushad said:


> Yup another failure and we should start looking inside because these people are inside us .... But saying our enemies are not involved in supporting these groups would be total mistake.... India have history of supporting terrorism in Pakistan.... So if you are implying that India is some angel which wont take advantage of it and want me to believe this than you are living in lalaland.
> 
> And i still cant digest the thing that why would they choose a hard target in Karachi and go specially for the P3s ... If they wanted such action they got 1000s of Army target from Peshawar to Lahore to Islamabad.


 
I don't think the P3s were the objects of destruction. If one may make sense of previous attacks that have happened including the attack on the navy bus, this looks like an escalation, a test of their own capabilities for something bigger.. maybe? 
or its simply a revenge attack for PAK cooperating with the US. Lets not forget that the PAK military has been under constant attack and the pattern suggests their attempts are getting bolder including the one attack when many cadets were killed.

However, the biggest question still remains. How can one easily enter such places of high security????


----------



## Spring Onion

Leader said:


> and secondly, rehman malik gave this picture....


 
Why he is releasing picture/s? its not his job. he interior minister


----------



## Hammy007

mjnaushad said:


> Yup... i read about 4 as well but the source was "security sources".... no names were given.... If they got some alive it will be huge success and will help in bringing down the whole network....


 
why would they lie about the captured, none were captured, thats the fact


----------



## mjnaushad

Trisonics said:


> I don't think the P3s were the objects of destruction. If one may make sense of previous attacks that have happened including the attack on the navy bus, this looks like an escalation, a test of their own capabilities for something bigger.. maybe?
> or its simply a revenge attack for PAK cooperating with the US. Lets not forget that the PAK military has been under constant attack and the pattern suggests their attempts are getting bolder including the one attack when many cadets were killed.
> 
> However, the biggest question still remains. How can one easily enter such places of high security????


 
P3 were not the target thats why they pushed towards P3 .... Targeted them... And then tried to goto where Chinese officials were.....


How they came is told by RM....


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## Hammy007

rehman malik is the camera man and the media


----------



## Dharmachakra

innocentboy said:


> General Xeric's post is nail in the head.


 
so your Navy chief got it wrong eh? 
*Militants targeted Navy, not aircrafts: Naval Chief*


----------



## Leader

mjnaushad said:


> Because the black one were little expensive......
> 
> 
> We've seen them in joggers before haven't we.... Manawan, FIA, GHQ....


 
comeon the only place where they were having white joggers was when they attacked on Sri lankan team.

rest you know we saw no one in Manawan, FIA, or GHQ. (as far as I remember)


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## Leader

Jana said:


> Why he is releasing picture/s? its not his job. he interior minister


 
he took it from his blackberry !


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## DarK-LorD

Leader said:


> comeon the only place where they were having white joggers was when they attacked on Sri lankan team.
> 
> rest you know we saw no one in Manawan, FIA, or GHQ. (as far as I remember)



Well then issue solved,its TTP as they claimed the attack on Sri Lankan Cricketers.


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## Devil Soul




----------



## S.M.R

deckingraj said:


> You are right....why not being a little candid here....Obviously it is India...India will benefit the most by destroying the Naval assets...*Anyways PN is too much for us and now by destroying the Orion's we can easily defeat them.*...In fact warships from India are already on the move
> 
> When educated folks talks such nonsense what can be said about the ordinary person...For heaven sake look inside....


 
Well, your above cause can be correct, if we are in face to face war. But during proxy attacks, killing of just one soldier is great achievement.


----------



## Ajaxpaul

Jana said:


> Why he is releasing picture/s? its not his job. he interior minister


 
Please let him do atleast that


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## MumbaiIndians

Orions were attacked to spoil whatever Gilani and MMS planned in Mohali.

Attack on Orions was to save Dollar, Euro, Renmibi from a competitor SAARC currency.


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## Xeric

Dharmachakra said:


> Why hesitate to call a spade as a spade.
> Who is not doing it? US,EU,Russia,Iran, Israel,Saudi, UAE,China,Pakistan,........ everyone ofcourse. But we only entered the game lately.
> And how terrorism started? it didnt just came out from no where. A desperate pakistan who is trying to grab that peice of kashmir back sponsored it. And US did the same with Pak help in Afghan.
> Untill 2008 we have been taking hits every next month. If we do nothing, people both at domestic and international level will call as the thrid type.
> Do what you gotta do and where you gotta do. You showed the way and now we will lead you.
> 
> When we talked peace, you showed middle finger with terrorism...... and now.....


 
Err....

One, only if you PM has the same shyt to say this to the international community.

Two, Pakistan have extended moral support to Kashmiris since the very beginning, even though we dont accept the blame of supporting the Kashmiri freedom fighters materially but even if we go by the indian definition, Pakistan started assisting Kashmiris in the 80s, but guess what, india had already done her bit of state sponsored terrorism in Bangladesh ('71) and Sri Lanka (Tamils) well before that, so the credit, for giving legitimacy to state terrorism, goes to you. Congrats!


----------



## S.M.R

Dharmachakra said:


> so your Navy chief got it wrong eh?
> *Militants targeted Navy, not aircrafts: Naval Chief*


 
Childish.
Whenever fighter jets goes into another country, and destroy say their any establishment, so will they that it is not attack on country, it is just attack on buildings.


----------



## American Pakistani

Any Loser caught alive???


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## Safriz

mjnaushad said:


> Yup... i read about 4 as well but the source was "security sources".... no names were given.... If they got some alive it will be huge success and will help in bringing down the whole network....


 something is fishy here...i heard the admiral live on news and he was saying that he prolonged the operation to catch them alive and that the terrorists were 12 or smething in number..Now they have changed and say they were only four and all killed..

Its not a time to joke but somehow i remember Gabbar singh..

"Kitnay aadmee thay"

"Sardaar chaar"

"Aur tumm kitnay thay"

"Sardaay poorey navy aur airforce"

"Phir bhee 16 ghantay lagaa diyey ..doo jahaaz jalwaa diyey aur 12 aadmee marwaa diyeey?"

Thats pethatic

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## Safriz

Just saw on the news..They are shifting the dead bodies of terrorists in civilian ambulances to civilian hospitals aka jinnah medical..
Such a high value "evidence" is not being dealt with navy themselves and not being sent to Karsaaz or PNS shifaa for forensic analysis?

Explain this.... i am baffled...


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## American Pakistani

Solomon2 said:


> What good would that do? A terrorist caught by the military would be turned over to the ISI which would seek to turn him into their trained poodle, is that not so? Yet outright execution without due process damages society in the long run. Something new is needed.


 
No, if caught alive, ISI can interrogate them. Who send them, who planned it etc etc.


----------



## MumbaiIndians

safriz said:


> Just saw on the news..They are shifting the dead bodies of terrorists in civilian ambulances to civilian hospitals aka jinnah medical..
> Such a high value "evidence" is not being dealt with navy themselves and not being sent to Karsaaz or PNS shifaa for forensic analysis?
> 
> Explain this.... i am baffled...



Its a good sign. It shows due processes are being followed. Civilian rule is back.


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## muse

Jana said:


> PN and Govt of Pakistan dont give statements about who is was involved unless investigation is done.
> 
> US has issued no such statement but i guess some small condemnation one




Hmm - investigation - a public inquiry? Ok, Ok, there's going to NO public inquiry and we will get some white washed sorry excuse for an investigation - either way we will never know the truth - only the a handful in the armed forces will know the full truth


----------



## MilSpec

mjnaushad said:


> Yup another failure and we should start looking inside because these people are inside us .... But saying our enemies are not involved in supporting these groups would be total mistake.... India have history of supporting terrorism in Pakistan.... So if you are implying that India is some angel which wont take advantage of it and want me to believe this than you are living in lalaland.
> 
> And i still cant digest the thing that why would they choose a hard target in Karachi and go specially for the P3s ... If they wanted such action they got 1000s of Army target from Peshawar to Lahore to Islamabad.



That is the root cause of all your miseries... Looking for an invisible enemy... All RAW literally has to do is nothing .. because your establishment would spend all its resources looking for Indian Agents that dont exist and in the meanwhile your own Mujah-hidin are raining bullets on your own establishment... 

P.S. Wasn't there a thread recently claiming ISI as No.1 Spy agency?


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## Patriot

Not sure if posted before - Picture of a pig released


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## Safriz

MumbaiIndians said:


> Its a good sign. It shows due processes are being followed. Civilian rule is back.



No its not good...the dead bodies can be easily vanished from those civilian hospitals...


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## MumbaiIndians

*&#8216;They were dressed like Star Wars characters&#8217;, said Rehman Malik.*

Smart way to convey the message. 

http://tribune.com.pk/story/174308/all-terrorists-killed-in-nayy-base-operation-rehman-malik/

A clear signal towards CIA.


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## T-Faz

> He said they were dressed in black clothes *&#8220;like they do in movies&#8221;*.
> *&#8216;They were dressed like Star Wars characters,&#8217;* said Malik.



All terrorists killed in Navy base operation: Rehman Malik &#8211; The Express Tribune

I dont know if I should laugh of if I should cry, our forces, our ministers and our people.

God help us.

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## Dharmachakra

innocentboy said:


> Childish.
> Whenever fighter jets goes into another country, and destroy say their any establishment, so will they that it is not attack on country, it is just attack on buildings.


 
You got it wrong. My strong belief is that the destruction of A/C is just collatoral. Their main objectives might be killing naval people and those yanks living in thier doorms at the base.


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## alibaz

Patriot said:


> Not sure if posted before - Picture of a pig released



Doesn't he look like Mr Raymond Davis


----------



## Safriz

T-Faz said:


> All terrorists killed in Navy base operation: Rehman Malik &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> I dont know if I should laugh of if I should cry, our forces, our ministers and our people.
> 
> God help us.



wait for the Navy cheif's statement..His ststement was different from Rahman malik's..
Even Rahman malik was using the word "Shaayad" while giving statement..he was not sure about the stats he was giving..
Navy has yet to release an official statement...


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## MumbaiIndians

T-Faz said:


> All terrorists killed in Navy base operation: Rehman Malik  The Express Tribune
> 
> I dont know if I should laugh of if I should cry, our forces, our ministers and our people.
> 
> God help us.


 
Nope. your leaders are not that fool, as you assume them to be. 

These are subtle messages. He can't say openly, "CIA did it." He is smart. Read between lines.

Remember what Afridi said in press conference after match? "sabko pata hai, teesra desh hai jo dosti nahi hone dega hum dono desho me". 

US Ambassador in Pakistan will be worried now, after reading what he said.

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## ramu

I think catching at least one terrorist alive would have given a treasure of information to the security forces. All I want to say is that the operation on the face of it looks welll done but after taking this long, I would have expected atleast one terrorist captured alive.

Pakistan forces could have done better.


----------



## Porus

omer85 said:


> the only way forward is separation of state and religion. in simple words follow the turkey model if we have to survive and develop.
> *the ones who consider themselves muslim first rather than Pakistani's should be kicked ou. cleanse the FATA region, even if some 100,000 innocent have to die in a go. its better than some 100+ dying every day.*
> army needs to be ruthless. no need to arrest and trial, simply kill on the spot policy should be implemented.
> islamic parites like jamat-e-islami, jamiat-e-ulma islam etc should be banned, and anyone affiliated with them be persecuted.
> Republic of Pakistan is a way forward. islamic republic of Pakistan was a failed experiment.




Why do I have a feeling that most of the Pakistanis normally remain into a condition of deep slumber of denial and woke up to reality for a short period of time when such incidents happen. 

How many people will remain in Pakistan if you will kick out all those who consider themselves Muslims first? 
How can you separate religion from the state affairs in a country likek Pakistan if day in and day out people are indoctrinated with the "ideology of Pakistan"?

Do you know what ist he ideology of Pakistan whose biggest proponent is none other than the army itself?

How can you ban those Islamic parties that work hand in glove with the army which is calling shots in Pakistan since its inception in 1947 and which is even now not ready to give up its good jihadi bad jihadi policy?


----------



## Xeric

Solomon2 said:


> Yet Pakistan is such a mess that these attackers could themselves have been controlled by the ISI in its quest (as Benazir Bhutto alleged) to *dominate Pakistan* and


 
ISI is powerful enough to 'dominate' Pakistan without implementation of terrorism, unfortunately it has been 'dominating' Pakistan since its inception without executing terrorism, so only a thickhead like you can accuse ISI of something like this, no one would hit upon it own support base to further one's hold over the same support base, heck (as alleged by many) even the Jews attacked the Americans on 9/11 and NOT the Israelis!



> expand terror abroad.


Areyou stupid or what? 

You want to imply that in order to 'expand terrorism abroad' and while doing so the ISI becoming capable of influencing the polices world wide, it (the ISI) should start hitting it's own people through terrorists controlled by the organization itself..voila...!! As if the conjecture that the Americans planned the 9/11 themselves was not absurd enough!! BTW, atleast this conjecture did have some grounds because even if this was true, it atleast supports the belief that the Americans wanted to dictate the world its policies through an act like 9/11, Pakistan on the other hand cant even influence Afghanistan for fcuks sake!! What a @#$! ...!!

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## Safriz

Two hors ago Navy cheif's press conference was transmitted live on news channels..Did somebody hear that?
I am sure he mentioned some terrorists caught alive....and that he himself instructed to prolong the operation so that SSG can have them alive...

Why do you think in the picture of the dead terrorist..he was shot in the hand? instead of being shot in the forehead if they just wanted to kill them all and finish this..


----------



## ramu

Porus said:


> Why do I have a feeling that most of the Pakistanis normally remain into a condition of deep slumber of denial and woke up to reality for a short period of time when such incidents happen.
> 
> How many people will remain in Pakistan if you will kick out all those who consider themselves Muslims first?
> How can you separate religion from the state affairs in a country likek Pakistan if day in and day out people are indoctrinated with the "ideology of Pakistan"?
> 
> Do you know what ist he ideology of Pakistan whose biggest proponent is none other than the army itself?
> 
> How can you ban those Islamic parties that work hand in glove with the army which is calling shots in Pakistan since its inception in 1947 and which is even now not ready to give up its good jihadi bad jihadi policy?


 
The answer is conscious effort to transform the society by moving away from Madrasas, refining the education system and severely punishing people involved in indoctrination.

Nothing is easy, but the sooner Pakistan makes a strong resolve to change the status quo, the better it is.


----------



## DarK-LorD

No offense to Pakistan Govt.I couldn't control my laughter When a a Very senior & respected Official told they were dressed like Star Wars Character.


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## SSGPA1

Has the navy issued a statement yet? 

Malik is an a** no one believe he says ... I would wait till PN or the ISPR issue a statement about the number of terrorists involved.

Hats off to those who fought and embraced shahadat for Pakistan, may Allah accept their shahdats and bless their souls, ameen.


----------



## T-Faz

RaptorRX707 said:


> What was ISI's mission in attacking Pakistan? the purpose?


 
Read what I wrote, some members, not the entire institution.

We have a lot of rogue members in this outfit, especially the one which deals with militants and helped create them.

Even members of the PA admit to this fact.

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## MumbaiIndians

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> No offense to Pakistan Govt.I couldn't control my laughter When a a Very senior & respected Official told they were dressed like Star Wars Character.


 
It was deliberate.

Its a message to american diplomats, "we are watching you. we know you have hands in this".

One is not naive to say such things after terror attack. Its a deliberately given message. I don't doubt his sincerity.

And, after meeting crooks like John Kerry, one learns to say things with humor and pass the message.


----------



## Safriz

Rahman malik didnt know what he was saying..We have to wait until tomorrow when Primeminister meets the top brass and Navy cheif gives a statement...
Many things are suspicious....
The number of terrorists initially reported was much more than whats being reported now...
Navy cheif's statement was different from what Interior minister said.
Now the dead bodies of terrorists is being transported in civilian ambulances to non secure civil hospitals,from where whoever wants can disappear the important evidence...


----------



## Xeric

T-Faz said:


> Some members (ex and current) from ISI have indeed helped terrorists in attacking Pakistan and its security establishment.
> 
> So he isn't exactly making this up.


 
Just like the Trade Center Attack, Mumbai Attack and so on and so forth, right?

Though the above mentioned actions did bring some 'benefits' to the countries (reportedly) sponsoring them, so what exactly the same would yield for Pakistan, it's military and it's intelligence agency? Fair question, right?


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## ramu

RaptorRX707 said:


> What was ISI's mission in attacking Pakistan? the purpose?


 
I think such doubts should never arise. Pakistan should have full faith in its intelligence agency.

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## Safriz

SSGPA1 said:


> Has the navy issued a statement yet?
> 
> Malik is an a** no one believe he says ... I would wait till PN or the ISPR issue a statement about the number of terrorists involved.
> 
> Hats off to those who fought and embraced shahadat for Pakistan, may Allah accept their shahdats and bless their souls, ameen.


 
same here..Ramman malik's statemet was not reliable..He was visibly confused and over and over again used the word "Shaayadd"..means "May be"..
He said "May be they were 4"
"may be 2 ran away"

Things like that...
I rather wait for ISPR statement..


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## TOPGUN

Any pic's of the cowards dead? and i can't belive that 2 bastards have escaped...


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## ramu

TOPGUN said:


> Any pic's of the cowards dead? and i can't belive that 2 bastards have escaped...


 
Oh God ! Is this true ? I thought it was a joke.


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## Dharmachakra

Damn it............

Now it got it after put my little brain on stress test that why destroyed the A/C.

Because they were gifted by US a way back to perform survielance on Talibans. Now that OSAMA met his 72 ,his bunch of scums has nothing to do, hence going on a blasting spree of those all given by US under WOT.


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## T-Faz

Xeric said:


> Just like the Trade Center Attack, Mumbai Attack and so on and so forth, right?
> 
> Though the above mentioned actions did bring some 'benefits' to the countries (reportedly) sponsoring them, so what exactly the same would yield for Pakistan, it's military and it's intelligence agency? Fair question, right?


 
Read what I wrote, *some members* within this institute sympathize with the terrorists and they would like to see the terrorists succeed.

They too want Pakistan to become an Islamic state and this fact has been alluded to by Musharraf himself.

You probably know about the two different ISI's which are active, one more western friendly while the other being more Islamic.


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## Comet

HOW on EARTH can someone escape after an incident like that? Did they just beamed in and out of the base? Why aren't all the routes to the base covered? This is seriously DISTURBING !!!

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## MumbaiIndians

Xeric said:


> Though the above mentioned actions did bring some 'benefits' to the countries (reportedly) sponsoring them, so what exactly the same would yield for Pakistan, it's military and it's intelligence agency? Fair question, right?


 
Some insiders may have helped. But real question here is, Why they chose Orion? 

*In other words, why TTP would make it look like India attacked?* If India indeed did this, then are Indians so fool to choose targets like orion, which moves pointer of suspicion onto them? 

There is only one country who has direct access to TTP on western border, as well as enough influence. NATO.


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## desiman

wow some terrorist even escaped, what happened to the great ssg now ? Another embarrassment for Pakistan.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Lieutenant Syed Yaser Abbas led the rapid response squad against terrorist intrustion into PNS Mehran (PN Airbase) on the night of 22nd May, 2011. He heard the gunshots and led his jawans from the front. He received 3 bullets fighting the enemy and lost breath at PNS Rahat few minutes later. 

We had many mutual friends; he hailed also from my native Kurram Agency.










Like all the other fallen martyrs of our motherland, his bravery, courage, personality and sacrifice makes entire Pakistan proud. 


Our resolve to fight these terrorist scum and uproot them. Hopefulyl we will also uncover clues as to who exactly is providing material and other support to the enemies of our nation. Inshallah.

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## AAtish

I don't think that anyone can escape from base..

I'll wait for ISPR's report, ARM is mentally retarded person..


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## Gin ka Pakistan

At the time Pakistan is a victim still the Indian and western media is hammering Pakistan. 
1. Pakistan can only survive if it seal the Afghan boarder completely 
2. Send Afghans back to Afghanistan, There no reason for 3 million Afghans to live in Pakistan , It was Zai's mistake not to keep Afghans in camps like Iran did and now Iran has send all Afghans back. 
3. Stop middle east money to finance the religious schools 

Russia and China should ask India why they want US to have strong control in their backyard. After Afghanistan US will take central Asia by putting its puppet there and is it OK with Russia and China? 
Why India? Why are you disabling the region and in this fight of elephants (US, China, Russia) Pakistan will be crushed but do you want to live with an another Afghanistan on your boarder.


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## Major Sam

can any body verify about this statement as Naval chief said that some terrorists are caught alive? is there any reality in this news?


----------



## iPhone

How were these planes worth? Somebody on tv was saying each one costs 204 million usd but NAVY originally stated 30 million. Unless they were used and older versions.


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

desiman said:


> wow some terrorist even escaped, what happened to the great ssg now ? Another embarrassment for Pakistan.


 
Make fun of Pakistan as much as you like but three SSG gave their live in the operation please show some respect.


----------



## Safriz

umairp said:


> HOW on EARTH can someone escape after an incident like that? Did they just beamed in and out of the base? Why aren't all the routes to the base covered? This is seriously DISTURBING !!!


 
ISPR has yet to release a statement..What you are mentioning was interior minister's statement and thats not credible..


----------



## Safriz

usama waqas said:


> can any body verify about this statement as Naval chief said that some terrorists are caught alive? is there any reality in this news?


 
i heard that in an ARY news live broadcast..But apparently nobody on this forum listened to the Navy cheif's news conference..


----------



## Solomon2

Xeric said:


> ...only a thickhead like you can accuse ISI of something like this


I'm repeating B. Bhutto's claim, so that puts me in good company.



> ...no one would hit upon it own support base to further one's hold over the same support base...Areyou stupid or what?


Uh-huh.



> You want to imply that in order to 'expand terrorism abroad' and while doing so the ISI becoming capable of influencing the polices world wide, it (the ISI) should start hitting it's own people through terrorists controlled by the organization itself..voila...!! As if the conjecture that the Americans planned the 9/11 themselves was not absurd enough!!


America's government is accountable to the electorate through its president, courts, and legislature. It isn't easy for a small, secretive group to hide wrongdoing from so many people, not on a large scale, anyway. Officers of the ISI, on the other hand, is scarcely accountable to any one - and the daughter organizations established by "retired" members have even less oversight.


----------



## deckingraj

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Make fun of Pakistan as much as you like but three SSG gave their live in the operation please show some respect.


 
I don't think he is making fun of the braves who sacrificed their lives for saving the pride of nation...However if terrorists manage to escape then this is very serious...very very serious....Imagine - 4-6 terrorists attack a Naval Base, keep fighting for 16 hours, destroy Naval assets, kill commandos and then finally 2 of them manage to escape....what does it say about the security apparatus??? Right now i am hoping this news that couple of them escaped is false....


----------



## deckingraj

safriz said:


> ISPR has yet to release a statement..What you are mentioning was interior minister's statement and thats not credible..


 
Its amazing that you don't find your own Home minster credible(rightly so) and yet that scum is leading the office...


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

deckingraj said:


> I don't think he is making fun of the braves who sacrificed their lives for saving the pride of nation...However if terrorists manage to escape then this is very serious...very very serious....Imagine - 4-6 terrorists attack a Naval Base, keep fighting for 16 hours, destroy Naval assets, kill commandos and then finally 2 of them manage to escape....what does it say about the security apparatus??? Right now i am hoping this news that couple of them escaped is false....


 
I think Pakistani military know how to fight the wars not policing and securing bases , its some thing new to them. best brains are at boards in tanks not in bases securing it. The time has change , the enmey is behind the lines not at the boarder. 
Talk with India and come with a peace plan to builds trust with India so to move the army to western boarder where the enemy is.


----------



## VCheng

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Lieutenant Syed Yaser Abbas led the rapid response squad against terrorist intrustion into PNS Mehran (PN Airbase) on the night of 22nd May, 2011. He heard the gunshots and led his jawans from the front. He received 3 bullets fighting the enemy and lost breath at PNS Rahat few minutes later.
> 
> We had many mutual friends; he hailed also from my native Kurram Agency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all the other fallen martyrs of our motherland, his bravery, courage, personality and sacrifice makes entire Pakistan proud.
> 
> 
> Our resolve to fight these terrorist scum and uproot them. Hopefulyl we will also uncover clues as to who exactly is providing material and other support to the enemies of our nation. Inshallah.



I salute and honor the fallen soldier.


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## iPhone

This mofo r.malik comes and causes so much confusion. 2 ran off, 5 were dressed like storm troopers from star wars, attack happened cuz army was busy providing security to Imran khan and his anti drone protests. This joker needs to go.


----------



## Safriz

deckingraj said:


> Its amazing that you don't find your own Home minster credible(rightly so) and yet that scum is leading the office...


 
Dude if you heard his statement live broadcast .. He looked confused and as if wanting to look cool and knowledgeable but knew nothing..I assume you know hindi..if not urdu..The minister was using the word "Shaayad" again and again..that means he was not sure about what he was saying....

UPDATE:
Navy cheif said the terrorists were* very well trained*..

Not your normal angry mullah


----------



## Porus

deckingraj said:


> Its amazing that you don't find your own Home minster credible(rightly so) and yet that scum is leading the office...


 
He is not a scum, just another minister with shortcomings but his main sin is that he represents the civilian government which the military janta and their lackey detest like pest.


----------



## Zeeshan360

safriz said:


> ISPR has yet to release a statement..What you are mentioning was interior minister's statement and thats not credible..


 
What are u saying ???
Minister's statements are official , they dont go on saying what they like .
They represent whole country


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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> All terrorists killed in Navy base operation: Rehman Malik &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> I dont know if I should laugh of if I should cry, our forces, our ministers and our people.
> 
> God help us.


 

Please do laugh at your democratic interior juga minister rehman malik.


----------



## deckingraj

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> I think Pakistani military know how to fight the wars not policing and securing bases , its some thing new to them. best brains are at boards in tanks not in bases securing it. The time has change , the enmey is behind the lines not at the boarder.


 
Correct me if i am wrong but groups like SSG(Pak), NSG(India) are raised only for such operations...So i am not sure about the preparation part...but yeah in our case the capabilities were foudn wanting...i am sure SSG would have faced the same...However now i am hearing that 2 of those pigs manage to run away...this is definitely very disturbing...



> Talk with India and come with a peace plan to builds trust with India so to move the army to western boarder where the enemy is.


I have said many times that peace with India is very important for Pakistan...India atm can live with Status Quo, however for Pakistan this is not true any more...Please make the most of MMS...Even in current establishment many are of the views that talking with Pak is not going to bring any good...we all know BJP is far more anti-pak so if there is best time for Pak to make a move than it is right now!!!!


----------



## Abingdonboy

safriz said:


> Dude if you heard his statement live broadcast .. He looked confused and as if wanting to look cool and knowledgeable but knew nothing..I assume you know hindi..if not urdu..The minister was using the word "Shaayad" again and again..that means he was not sure about what he was saying....
> 
> UPDATE:
> Navy cheif said the terrorists were* very well trained*..
> 
> Not your normal angry mullah


 
As well trained as 26/11 attackers?

this morning a BBC reporter in Pakistan said that previous attacks had been carried out by some ex Pak military members. Could explain training and their extensive knowledge? if so this is VERY worrying- people sent to fight these terrorists ending up joining their fight?!


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## Spring Onion

deckingraj said:


> Its amazing that you don't find your own Home minster credible(rightly so) and yet that scum is leading the office...


 
Dear many scums in India are also leading the office. its the subcontinental democracy so nevermind

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## deckingraj

Porus said:


> He is not a scum, just another minister with shortcomings but his main sin is that he represents the civilian government which the military janta and their lackey detest like pest.


 
I salute your patience here...Buddy he is your home minister and is accountable for all the mess....In my view he is surely a scum because he has the nerve to continue on a post where he is not able to deliver any good....Two big slaps in just 2 weeks span(i am ignoring all those bombs killing innocents) and yet he is on the post!!!!!


----------



## ejaz007

One of the terrorist who attacked PNS MEhran:


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## Spring Onion

Patriot said:


> Not sure if posted before - Picture of a pig released


 
the rat needs to be traced. where are pictures of other rats ??

this was issued by Rehman Malik. wonder why he is issuing pictures its not his job


----------



## deckingraj

Jana said:


> Dear many scums in India are also leading the office. its the subcontinental democracy so nevermind


 
No Jana....we should mind it....these people need to go because they have made the mockery of their post....we had a similar home minister which finally had to go after mumbai....i am not sure what will be enough for Pakistani's...i am afraid they are getting into "indifferent" mode no matter what happens...


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## RAZA SAHI

THIS THREAD HAS ONCE AGAIN PROVED THAT WE PAKISTANIS ARE PEOPLE OF EXTREMES, BE IT THE RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALISTS OR THE LIBERAL GOONS. ALSO THIS THREAD IS BECOMING ANOTHER INDIA VS PAKISTAN THREAD.

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## Xeric

Solomon2 said:


> I'm repeating B. Bhutto's claim, so that puts me in good company.


Hmm...please quote the instance.

Even if she did, well it would be like Nawaz claiming Pakistan death toll amounting to 3000 during Kargil. What surprises me is your hypocrisy when you on one side claim our leaders (read politicians and military-men) of being naive, stupid, liars and corrupt, but at the same time you start quoting them as if they were Bernard Shaw!



> Uh-huh.


Hunn ki hoya..?!



> America's government is accountable to the electorate through its president, courts, and legislature. It isn't easy for a small, secretive group to hide wrongdoing from so many people, not on a large scale, anyway. Officers of the ISI, on the other hand, is scarcely accountable to any one - and the daughter organizations established by "retired" members have even less oversight.


 
^^Hmm...

Accountable like no one asked any questions when the same CIA caused the invasion of Iraq on the (false) pretext of WMDs and your troops bloodied their hands with the blood of millions of iraqis.

Also, no one still ask them when they play a dirt game and have brought terrorism to every fcuking nook and corner of this world. Thankyou American for making this world dangerous than ever! Didnt understand? Hint: Everybody hates you and it is because if this that they would feel like killing you guys. No dont quote me the 'liberties' and 'freedom' that these people are jealous of!

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## ramu

IMHO, Rehman Malik has done a great job in the last one day. He was the first to land in Karachi and sent a strong message to Pakistani people as to why these people need to be dealt with a stern hand. He no doubt is influencing public opinion against the terrorists.

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## Gin ka Pakistan

deckingraj said:


> Correct me if i am wrong but groups like SSG(Pak), NSG(India) are raised only for such operations...So i am not sure about the preparation part...but yeah in our case the capabilities were foudn wanting...i am sure SSG would have faced the same...However now i am hearing that 2 of those pigs manage to run away...this is definitely very disturbing...


 
A lot of time was wasted while the SSG came to action , enemies objective was completed so they had planned the escape and archived the objective in KIOS time. While SSG main objective was to secure the Chines and US trainers they escape. 

Pakistan might have high tech plans to fight a war but to secure a base , no body cared in the past.


----------



## Spring Onion

deckingraj said:


> No Jana....we should mind it....these people need to go because they have made the mockery of their post....we had a similar home minister which finally had to go after mumbai....i am not sure what will be enough for Pakistani's...i am afraid they are getting into "indifferent" mode no matter what happens...


 
 these should but i was just amused over your surprise and use of word scum when same scums are ruling in your country too so what was so surprising ?


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

Jana said:


> the rat needs to be traced. where are pictures of other rats ??
> 
> this was issued by Rehman Malik. wonder why he is issuing pictures its not his job


 
Look like a Afghan , send all Afghans back to Afghanistan , like Iran did.

His build is like a solider , not fat extremist


----------



## deckingraj

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> A lot of time was wasted while the SSG came to action , enemies objective was completed so they had planned the escape and archived the objective in KIOS time. While SSG main objective was to secure the Chines and US trainers they escape.
> 
> Pakistan might have high tech plans to fight a war but to secure a base , no body cared in the past.



May be you are right...who knows we have same shortcomings in India...but as an outsider it is very hard to believe that some terrorists can attack a Naval Base, destroy assets and then run away....disgusting!!!


----------



## Spring Onion

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Look like a Afghan


 
it doesnt make any difference if he is a latin even what is more concerning is why and how they succeed in reaching there


----------



## Spring Onion

Xeric said:


> Hmm...please quote the instance.
> 
> Even if she did, well it would be like Nawaz claiming Pakistan death toll amounting to 3000 during Kargil. What surprises me is your hypocrisy when you on one side claim our leaders (read politicians and military-men) of being naive, stupid, liars and corrupt, but at the same time you start quoting them as if they were Bernard Shaw!



Yara she even said Osama was killed by Omar sheikh so are these zionists gonna believe that too or just one sided blind propaganda eye they have ?


----------



## deckingraj

Jana said:


> these should but i was just amused over your surprise and use of word scum when same scums are ruling in your country too so what was so surprising ?


 
Jana, my surprise is that here in India we at-least force them to resign....There is lot of bashing and finally something happens....Let me give you examples

- After mumbai, home minister had to go
- Chief minister of Maharashtra had to go
- So much mud-slinging on CWG but finally people involved had to go
- So many scams but finally telecom minister is in Jail

In short we atleast change them...this guy has failed the nation(Pak) so many times and yet he is on the same post....this is surprising...

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## Cent4

KARACHI: Two suicide jackets were recovered from a compound of PNS Mehran base, which came under terrorist attack on late Sunday, sources told Geo News.

Sources said that two explosives-laden vests were recovered during a search operation of the naval base&#8217;s compound after armed offensive against terrorists concluded.

Also, three dead bodies of terrorists were seized from the compound. Terrorists were holed up in that compound for many hours, sources said.

No civilian or armed forces&#8217; personnel were taken under hostage, sources revealed.

Federal Interior Minister A. Rehman Malik and Pakistan Navy officials supervised the sweeping process of compound.


----------



## Xeric

T-Faz said:


> Read what I wrote, some members, not the entire institution.
> 
> We have a lot of rogue members in this outfit, especially the one which deals with militants and helped create them.
> 
> Even members of the PA admit to this fact.


 


T-Faz said:


> Read what I wrote, *some members* within this institute sympathize with the terrorists and they would like to see the terrorists succeed.
> 
> They too want Pakistan to become an Islamic state and this fact has been alluded to by Musharraf himself.
> 
> You probably know about the two different ISI's which are active, one more western friendly while the other being more Islamic.


 There's a hell lota difference in saying what you have implied above and then condoning to what Solomon has ranted. May be next time you should see to it.

Anywaz, the 'rogue' elements inside the ISI (even if they are there) are not that powerful that they can execute attacks on such a massive scale without getting noticed. Also, when they know that some of these terrorists would be caught alive. Though i am sure they must have planned accordingly and made sure that even if caught, they (the executioners) dont know nothing that could lead them to their handlers. Moreover (though all of the following is alleged), tipping off OBL before an impending attack by the SEALS, not taking actions against the likes of Haqqani Group and playing a double game with the yanks etc etc is one thing and actually masterminding an attack like this one is totally another. And i am sure you know this.


----------



## a. hussain

DelhiDareDevil said:


> That is some serious monetary damage. As well as lifes lost indeed. RIP.


 
The cost of each plane is over 200 million USD. Although it is not appropriate to say at this stage but alas the pakistani nation is suffering due to its corrupt, selfish, dishonest & incapable politicians + self centered, corrupt, coward, self-opinioned armed forces top brass. We can only pray that Allah guide us in this time of turmoil and disturbance.

Thanks


----------



## Mav3rick

Porus said:


> He is not a scum, just another minister with shortcomings but his main sin is that he represents the civilian government which the military janta and their lackey detest like pest.


 
I don't really know much about RM as a human but as an interior minister he has been found wanting, time and again.


----------



## deckingraj

a. hussain said:


> The cost of each plane is over 200 million USD. Although it is not appropriate to say at this stage but alas the pakistani nation is suffering due to its corrupt, selfish, dishonest & incapable politicians + self centered, corrupt, coward, self-opinioned armed forces top brass. We can only pray that Allah guide us in this time of turmoil and disturbance.
> 
> Thanks


 Allah help those who help themselves....It is you Pakistani elites that have to raise the standards....Pakistan is blessed with a comparatively fair media(comparing it with other sections) so use it...In today's world of communication nothing is impossible....One Anna Hazare in India forced govt. to do something they were not doing from past 42 years...i am sure many Hazare's are there in Pak too....


----------



## Fireurimagination

Some heads should roll, attack after attack and blunder after blunder, it's like Pakistan's intelligence agencies and networks are non-existant

Pakistan has to fight this terrorism menace and people who support them on many levels and sacrifices will have to be made, there are surely elements within Pakistani establishment or Army/ISI who support these terrorists

Let's hope the country unites and roots out this evil once and for all without exceptions like good Taliban, bad Taliban, our strategic assets (LeT, Jaish) etc


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## Xeric

^^ i didnt even (completely) go through what you have written. The piece had already made big news in the past, but to no avail. So guess what, keep on flattering yourself.


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

Extremist have a big build but this guy is fit like a Afghan solider


----------



## Dhruv V Singh

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> *Extremist have a big build* but this guy is fit like a Afghan solider


 
Seriously? Where did you take the stereotyping101 classes?


----------



## RAZA SAHI

Please do laugh at your democratic interior juga minister rehman malik. 

@Jana

you are a very senior member of this forum, why JANA are you so critical of the interior minister & not of the army. The interior minister isn't responsible for the ARMY. he is in charge of the civillian security apparatus and as i can remember the CCPO of KARACHI had informed of an attack on milltary installations & some other sensitive places in a press conference to the media. the interior minister does not organize the security of the MILITARY BASES, the guards & the security personnel present at those bases don't come under his command, yet the forces under his command were there at the base within minutes, although they were barred from going inside the base. REHMAN MALIK was also the only high official who took the trouble to go to karachi, & was present at the place while the operation was going on. whereas the MILITARY leadership was mostly asleep, i still haven't heard of any statement by the GREAT ASHFAQ PERVAIZ KIYANI, nor there has been any defenitive statement by the ISPR.

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## Xeric

Jana said:


> Yara she even said Osama was killed by Omar sheikh so are these zionists gonna believe that too or just one sided blind propaganda eye they have ?


 
i think that's what i have tried reiterating in my post # 2001

They would believe and quote one thing from the same guy and blatantly term the same guy a liar if he/she said something that didnt suit their agenda. Hypocrisy at its best!

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## iPhone

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Lieutenant Syed Yaser Abbas led the rapid response squad against terrorist intrustion into PNS Mehran (PN Airbase) on the night of 22nd May, 2011. He heard the gunshots and led his jawans from the front. He reiceived 3 bullets fighting the enemy and lost breath at PNS Rahat few minutes later.
> 
> We had many mutual friends; he hailed also from my native Kurram Agency.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Like all the other fallen martyrs of our motherland, his bravery, courage, personality and sacrifice makes entire Pakistan proud.
> 
> 
> Our resolve to fight these terrorist scum and uproot them. Hopefulyl we will also uncover clues as to who exactly is providing material and other support to the enemies of our nation. Inshallah.



Look at this, such a sad day. I saw his family on tv and its heartbreaking. But what's even more heartbreaking is that more than likely his sacrifice and thousands others like him who've died at the hands of terrorists, they're sacrifices will go in vain. 
I'm not interested in what motives and what security lapses and inside job or not, I want to know will Pak govt and Pak army avenge the deaths of the martyred? Will they bring their killers to justice? More than likely, no. That's what's really heart breaking.

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## Spring Onion

deckingraj said:


> Jana, my surprise is that here in India we at-least force them to resign....There is lot of bashing and finally something happens....Let me give you examples
> 
> - After mumbai, home minister had to go
> - Chief minister of Maharashtra had to go
> - So much mud-slinging on CWG but finally people involved had to go
> - So many scams but finally telecom minister is in Jail
> 
> In short we atleast change them...this guy has failed the nation(Pak) so many times and yet he is on the same post....this is surprising...


 

our situation very different the country cant afford to have abrupt fresh elections at this time. and resigning is going to do no good as another will replace him just like in your country.

we need an entire overhaul of the system

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## a. hussain

safriz said:


> Rahman malik didnt know what he was saying..We have to wait until tomorrow when Primeminister meets the top brass and Navy cheif gives a statement...
> Many things are suspicious....
> The number of terrorists initially reported was much more than whats being reported now...
> Navy cheif's statement was different from what Interior minister said.
> Now the dead bodies of terrorists is being transported in civilian ambulances to non secure civil hospitals,from where whoever wants can disappear the important evidence...


 
TV channels have informed that 4 terrorists were killed and 2 got away. Isn't it a joke that despite so tight security (as was claimed) during the operation where Navy Marines, Navy Commandos, Rangers, Police etc were involved in large nos. the terrorists still manage to escape does it not show the competency & performance of our defenders who have really disgarced the whole nation besides heavy financial & human losses at the hands of the small band of terrorists. Its really shameful. The height is that PN chief is not accepting that there was security lapse? Its really a joke. No responsible official has the decency/ courage to step down and accept that where the weaknesses are and can we expect any timely strict actions to be taken against all responsible parties. We can only pray.

Thanks


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

Nadra needs to complete full info about Afghans living in Pakistan.


----------



## deckingraj

Jana said:


> our situation very different the country cant afford to have abrupt fresh elections at this time. and resigning is going to do no good as another will replace him just like in your country.
> 
> we need an entire overhaul of the system


 
I am in agreement with you but only partially....I agree that fresh elections cannot happen but if you don't put the minister accountable nothing will change...You need a different strategy because whatever is being followed right now is not working...and when i am talking about accountability i am not only referring to home minister...i am very much talking about ISI, Army.....each institution role is to protect Pakistan and her interests...As of now they failed miserably...Perhaps it is time for a new Army Chief - who will bring fresh ideas to the table...may be a new ISI chief can bring in change or may be a new home minister....The message is simple - either do the job or vanish into thin air....


----------



## Porus

deckingraj said:


> I salute your patience here...Buddy he is your home minister and is accountable for all the mess....In my view he is surely a scum because he has the nerve to continue on a post where he is not able to deliver any good....Two big slaps in just 2 weeks span(i am ignoring all those bombs killing innocents) and yet he is on the post!!!!!


 
You didn't get my point. Every incompetent minister, military general or police officer has to resign and this is the norm in every democratic country. But this is not the only reason why army lovers hate him. They simply hate the whole civilian government and relish in being kicked in their by the shining military boots after every ten years for the next ten years.


----------



## ramu

Jana said:


> our situation very different the country cant afford to have abrupt fresh elections at this time. and resigning is going to do no good as another will replace him just like in your country.
> 
> we need an entire overhaul of the system


 
Don't have elections but kick the incompetent and appoint some one in his/her place. Surely the house of representatives in a democracy are more than a handful given the number of constituencies in Pakistan.


----------



## deckingraj

Porus said:


> You didn't get my point. Every incompetent minister, military general or police officer has to resign and this is the norm in every democratic country. But this is not the only reason why army lovers hate him. They simply hate the whole civilian government and relish in being kicked by the military boots after every ten years for the next ten years.


 
No disagreement there.....Civilian rule is hard in the periphery but in the long run for Pakistan...Military brings in short-term stability and that's why an ordinary Pakistani has more faith in Army than civilian leadership...However high time for some accountability


----------



## Spring Onion

RAZA SAHI said:


> Please do laugh at your democratic interior juga minister rehman malik.
> 
> @Jana
> 
> you are a very senior member of this forum, why JANA are you so critical of the interior minister & not of the army. The interior minister isn't responsible for the ARMY. he is in charge of the civillian security apparatus and as i can remember the CCPO of KARACHI had informed of an attack on milltary installations & some other sensitive places in a press conference to the media. the interior minister does not organize the security of the MILITARY BASES, the guards & the security personnel present at those bases don't come under his command, yet the forces under his command were there at the base within minutes, although they were barred from going inside the base. REHMAN MALIK was also the only high official who took the trouble to go to karachi, & was present at the place while the operation was going on. whereas the MILITARY leadership was mostly asleep, i still haven't heard of any statement by the GREAT ASHFAQ PERVAIZ KIYANI, nor there has been any defenitive statement by the ISPR.


 

1. seems you are late so coudnt read the entire thread so nevermind.

2. i am critical of him because he is a tainted person who had damaged Pakistan many times. he is the person who owned a British spying company shafaf and you never know working against Pakistan.

3. he came to Karachi in the morning at 4am with flashy chamkeeli waistcoat speaking shitt 

4. Army is composed of thousands of jawans and officers are alike who are braving harsh circumstances and even working in areas which is responsibility of civilian govt,


5. yes if you want then do criticise kiyani and pasha and MI people they are as much responsible as RM


----------



## Spring Onion

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Nadra needs to complete full info about Afghans living in Pakistan.


 
NADRA is full of black sheep. there had been 70,000 computerised fake CNICs issued to Afghanistanis by NADRA.

now take a pic. many get passports fly to other countries too

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## A1Kaid

Pakistanis are asking: Why do they hate us? They hate what we see right here in this chamber a democratically elected government. Their leaders are self-appointed. They hate our freedoms our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other.


Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists!



Sincerely, A1Kaid, Ministry of Intelligence


----------



## khurasaan1

SMC said:


> Pakistan needs to get ready for a war with US. No matter how unlikely a victory is, the war is inevitable and we need to do the best we can to prepare for it. I want each Pakistani citizen who owns firearms to get ready to shoot American terrorist soldiers like how they'd shoot an Indian one in the cities and where ever they see them. Time to get ready for yankee hunting.


 
This is tru bro! cuz this looks inevitable within next 6 months at most I guess....I guess our armed forces failed us against US/NATO maybe then Awaam gotta fight for their survival then....


----------



## A1Kaid

The terrorist hate us because of our civil liberties and our freedoms because of our flourishing democracy which poses a threat to their dark ideology of hatred.

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## Windjammer

British Army General commenting on BBC,

"Pakistan is well capable of taking and giving hard knocks".

I guess it says it all.


----------



## RAZA SAHI

1. seems you are late so coudnt read the entire thread so nevermind.
@JANA
you may have a point as this is a very long thread.
2. i am critical of him because he is a tainted person who had damaged Pakistan many times. he is the person who owned a British spying company shafaf and you never know working against Pakistan.

yes he is, but who isn't.i am a regular news reader and try to be in touch with the current affairs as much as i can, i don't know of any such thing. 


3. he came to Karachi in the morning at 4am with flashy chamkeeli waistcoat speaking shitt 

he might have come with a flashy chamkeeli waistcoat speaking shitt, but atleast he took the trouble to come to karachi, and he was probably the only one.

4. Army is composed of thousands of jawans and officers are alike who are braving harsh circumstances and even working in areas which is responsibility of civilian govt,


yes i know, and i support & appreciate their services. and there wasn't any thing in my post which suggested any thing of this sort.

5. yes if you want then do criticise kiyani and pasha and MI people they are as much responsible as RM 

yes i do want to criticise them, and i hold the MILITARY ESTABLISHMENT responsible for this shamefull & disgusting episode, i hope that they be removed from the office before the fail us on an even bigger stage. but i don't blame RM for this sad event. I ll blame him when i am sure that the responsibility lies with him.


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## T-Faz

Xeric said:


> There's a hell lota difference in saying what you have implied above and then condoning to what Solomon has ranted. May be next time you should see to it.


 
What I have implied is what Solomon means but he has a penchant for exaggeration.

Its not the entire institution that is acting against the state but rogue elements within it.



> Anywaz, the 'rogue' elements inside the ISI (even if they are there) are not that powerful that they can execute attacks on such a massive scale without getting noticed. Also, when they know that some of these terrorists would be caught alive. Though i am sure they must have planned accordingly and made sure that even if caught, they (the executioners) dont know nothing that could lead them to their handlers. Moreover (though all of the following is alleged), tipping off OBL before an impending attack by the SEALS, not taking actions against the likes of Haqqani Group and playing a double game with the yanks etc etc is one thing and actually masterminding an attack like this one is totally another. And i am sure you know this.


 
There is internal support for terrorists in a number of this nations institutes, on a number of occasion, terrorist sympathizers have helped facilitate terrorists before or after their attacks.

A lot of what has happened in Pakistan in terms of terrorist activities is impossible without some inside help.


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## DarK-LorD

The terrorists look like they are from Chechnya,Dagestan. Remember 5 days back few Chechens were killed.


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## CENTCOM

This is the latest in the long list of Taliban crimes against the sovereign nation of Pakistan. Did we not just witness the murder of over 90 Frontier Corps Cadets? Taliban have been wreaking havoc on the innocent people of Pakistan and Afghanistan for over a decade. Have we not witnessed them attacking people from all walks of life in their attempt to instill fear and destabilize the nation. Have we not witnessed them attack schools, shopping centers and even mosques and shrines? And now we see them attacking the largest naval base in Pakistan. How can these Taliban terrorists who keep attacking Pakistanis and Pakistani Assets ever be friends of this great nation? They are nothing but insurgents hell bent on destroying the peace loving nation of Pakistan. 

Pakistanis who have any soft corners for these murderers should realize that they are the real enemy who will not stop until they achieve the goal of revenge against Pakistan; and for whom? A terrorist who killed more Muslims then non-Muslims and who was not even a Pakistani. We have said before and we say again that peace in the region can only be achieved when the Taliban & Al-Qaeda terrorists along with their leadership is destroyed. It is time for the Pakistanis who support these terrorists to realize that they are the true enemy and until they are destroyed these attacks will not stop! We have the resolve along with Pakistani forces to focus on and to destroy Taliban and Al-Qaeda enemy and make this world a better and more peaceful place for our future generations.

CDR Bill Speaks
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

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## Safriz

Abingdonboy said:


> As well trained as 26/11 attackers?
> 
> this morning a BBC reporter in Pakistan said that previous attacks had been carried out by some ex Pak military members. Could explain training and their extensive knowledge? if so this is VERY worrying- people sent to fight these terrorists ending up joining their fight?!


 
and i say aliens from mars done it. 
At this stage everybody is speculating and there is no proof. some theries have circumstancial evidence. such as the picture of tatooed dead terorist who doesnt look anything like a relivious fighter. more like a caucasian.


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## T-Faz

CENTCOM said:


> Pakistanis who have any soft corners for these murderers should realize that they are the real enemy who will not stop until they achieve the goal of revenge against Pakistan; and for whom? A terrorist who killed more Muslims then non-Muslims and who was not even a Pakistani. *We have said before and we say again that peace in the region can only be achieved when the Taliban & Al-Qaeda terrorists along with their leadership is destroyed.* It is time for the Pakistanis who support these terrorists to realize that they are the true enemy and until they are destroyed these attacks will not stop! We have the resolve along with Pakistani forces to focus on and to destroy Taliban and Al-Qaeda enemy and make this world a better and more peaceful place for our future generations.
> 
> CDR Bill Speaks
> DET-United States Central Command
> U.S. Central Command


 
I agree with you but who is going to deal with the financial hub for all terrorists, this country called Saudi Arabia has been funding and promoting its violent ideology for a very long time leading to this global predicament.

Perhaps USA can use its clout to exterminate the ideological and financial source of terrorism that stems from Middle Eastern nations especially Saudi Arabia.


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## JonAsad

No CCTV footage?--


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## T-Faz

Glorious Resolve said:


> No CCTV footage?--


 
CCTV ho te to footage hota na.

There were no CCTV's apparently in some parts of the base.

I don't even know if there are any at all.


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## JonAsad

T-Faz said:


> CCTV ho te to footage hota na.
> 
> There were no CCTV's apparently in some parts of the base.
> 
> I don't even know if there are any at all.


 
i thought the expensive strategic assets have 24 hour surveillance to prevent espionage?- incompetency at its best-

First they park all 4 P3C Orion next to each other on one location- Next they didn't have enough security protocols to guard them- They should have learned from pearl harbor-


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## Solomon2

T-Faz said:


> Perhaps USA can use its clout to exterminate the ideological and financial source of terrorism that stems from Middle Eastern nations especially Saudi Arabia.


The money may be Saudi but the will is Pakistani. That is what has to change.


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## Musafar

So now our shiny toys which army has kissed USA's backside for years to acquire have gone up in smoke...how much more are we going to be subdued by USA and when will we realise that our partnership in one side, we take all their punches and they take the glory whilst our ISI and PA chief find it hard to show their corrupt faces!!


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## gaurish

T-Faz said:


> CCTV ho te to footage hota na.
> 
> There were no CCTV's apparently in some parts of the base.
> 
> I don't even know if there are any at all.



I saw cctv cameras fitted on the poles inside the walls of the base which is ment to keep surviallance ... I saw it on some Indian news channel which was taking feed from some pakistani news channel.. i think geo tv..


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## Musafar

Has anyone resigned over this disaster?

What next? Militants storming SSG base?

One word: unbelievable.


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## T-Faz

Glorious Resolve said:


> i thought the expensive strategic assets have 24 hour surveillance to prevent espionage?- incompetency at its best-
> 
> First they park all 4 P3C Orion next to each other on one location- Next they didn't have enough security protocols to guard them- They should have learned from pearl harbor-


 
Kuch aise hi halat hain.

Firstly, these bases have been here for years but they were built at a time when there were no civilian inhabitants around.

So the logical thing to do would be to relocate because you do not put your aircrafts, heli's and what not in the middle of the city.

Secondly, there should be a lot of security around the base but that was missing too.

Thirdly, there were no visible emergency plans in place, the terrorists first set fire to the fire brigades.

---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------




Solomon2 said:


> The money may be Saudi but the will is Pakistani. That is what has to change.


 
No money, no will.

You know what your country has to do.


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## manojb

those who prayed for osamas death, will they celebrate his reveng??


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## JonAsad

T-Faz said:


> Kuch aise hi halat hain.
> 
> Firstly, these bases have been here for years but they were built at a time when there were no civilian inhabitants around.
> 
> *So the logical thing to do would be to relocate* because you do not put your aircrafts, heli's and what not in the middle of the city.
> 
> Secondly, there should be a lot of security around the base but that was missing too.
> 
> Thirdly, there were no visible emergency plans in place, the terrorists first set fire to the fire brigades.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> No money, no will.
> 
> You know what your country has to do.


 
Thats the best option left for Pakistan to safeguard at least its military repute- Set up bases away from population and just shot any unauthorized breach- Lay mine fields- its a shame that it has come to this in our own territory-

---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------




manojb said:


> those who prayed for osamas death, will they celebrate his reveng??


 
exactly what are you asking?- Be clear-


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## Safriz

Those who know the training regime of Pakistan SSG will be surprised that why it took them12 lives and 14 hours to take down handful of terrorists who were mildly armed.
any ideas?


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## RAZA SAHI

British Army General commenting on BBC,

"Pakistan is well capable of taking and giving hard knocks".

I guess it says it all.
@windjammer

well this might be the case, but we have just witnessed a very disgraceful & pathetic knock of the security services incompetence.


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## gaurish

Glorious Resolve said:


> Thats the best option left for Pakistan to safeguard at least its military repute- Set up bases away from population and just shot any unauthorized breach- Lay mine fields- its a shame that it has come to this in our own territory-
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> exactly what are you asking?- Be clear-


 
Millitary is there to protect the citizens of their respective countries ... and you are saying that they should protect themselves only


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## Peregrine

I don't get it, if alqaeeda is seeking vengeance then why not attack the American lackey's; Zardari and Kiyani, who are the decision makers. Why are they targeting the innocents? It's hard to digest the notion that this attack didn't have any foreign interests.


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## iPhone

T-Faz said:


> Kuch aise hi halat hain.
> 
> Firstly, these bases have been here for years but they were built at a time when there were no civilian inhabitants around.
> 
> So the logical thing to do would be to relocate because you do not put your aircrafts, heli's and what not in the middle of the city.
> 
> Secondly, there should be a lot of security around the base but that was missing too.
> 
> Thirdly, there were no visible emergency plans in place, the terrorists first set fire to the fire brigades.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 06:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------
> 
> 
> .



forget all cctv and security, this place has/had wedding halls in there. there was a museum open to public. access inside was as easy as can be. this was no meticuliously planned operation from the terrorists side, they walked in easily just short of a physical invitation and roamed about looking for expensive assets to destroy.

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## rickshaw driver

*i have a noob question...was this airplane insured or something like this by lockheed?*

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## gaurish

Peregrine said:


> I don't get it, if alqaeeda is seeking vengeance then why not attack the American lackey's; Zardari and Kiyani, who are the decision makers. Why are they targeting the innocents? It's hard to digest the notion that this attack didn't have any foreign interests.


 
Thats why they are called senseless terrorists coz they attack weak and poor who nothing to do with anything


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## RAZA SAHI

I agree with you but who is going to deal with the financial hub for all terrorists, this country called Saudi Arabia has been funding and promoting its violent ideology for a very long time leading to this global predicament.

Perhaps USA can use its clout to exterminate the ideological and financial source of terrorism that stems from Middle Eastern nations especially Saudi Arabia.
@t faz

i agree with ur view but i think it ll be better if we counter there ideology, reason is it's more dangerous than there money & funding for these entities.


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## desioptimist

gaurish said:


> Millitary is there to protect the citizens of their respective countries ... and you are saying that they should protect themselves only


 
Many of Indian installations have civilians living and moving around it. Worst still people are encroaching on defence areas. I guess similar disaster waiting to happen in India.


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## Hammy007

ill keep repeating talibans are not as well trained as these terrorists were, they were highly well trained, had army gorilla like training, 6-7 men combatted the hundreds of army personel including the naval commandos, ssg and rangers, they completely knew the area or say much better then naval commandos themselves, two of them also escaped, who trained them, where they came from and which ethnicity they were is a big question mark, this is massive attack

it highly possible that nato and americans may have trained them for this special op


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## Dhruv V Singh

RAZA SAHI said:


> British Army General commenting on BBC,
> 
> "Pakistan is well capable of taking and giving hard knocks".
> 
> I guess it says it all.
> @windjammer
> 
> well this might be the case, but we have just witnessed a very disgraceful & pathetic knock of the security services incompetence.


 
Just use the "reply with quote" option mate. Easier to read.


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## mastaan

rickshaw driver said:


> *i have a noob question...was this airplane insured or something like this by lockheed?*


 
Change your flags... Will you please?

But to answer your question, in normal asset transactions, most asset transactions backed by a replacement warranty always has a 'Force Majeaure' clause, which exludes any natural calamities, political and military uncertainities and Terror Strikes as the condition that make the replacement warranties null and void... No one used the 'terror strike' as a clause before 9/11 and after that it has been accepted as an acceptable norm globally... So, in normal course, the answer is 'not covered'


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## khanz

iPhone said:


> forget all cctv and security, this place has/had wedding halls in there. there was a museum open to public. access inside was as easy as can be. this was no meticuliously planned operation from the terrorists side, they walked in easily just short of a physical invitation and roamed about looking for expensive assets to destroy.


 
very true wtf is up with pakistani security didn't they learn from the GHQ attack ? this naval base was pretty much open to the public through the museum anyone can come in they made such an important place such an easy target .


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## Safriz

Hammy007 said:


> ill keep repeating talibans are not as well trained as these terrorists were, they were highly well trained, had army gorilla like training, 6-7 men combatted the hundreds of army personel including the naval commandos, ssg and rangers, they completely knew the area or say much better then naval commandos themselves, two of them also escaped, who trained them, where they came from and which ethnicity they were is a big question mark, this is massive attack


 
yaar nobody escaped. why not wait for an ISPR statement or try dig out this evenings press conference frlm navy cheif. he mentioned terrorists caught alive.


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## JonAsad

gaurish said:


> Millitary is there to protect the citizens of their respective countries ... and you are saying that they should protect themselves only


 
Military is there to protect the citizens of their respective countries against external threats- To protect the citizens Law enforcement agencies are there-
btw i was talking about moving the military specific strategic assets along with its support equipments not required for civil defense out of the cities- and reinforce some freakin revised/ improved peacetime standard operating procedures to safeguard them-


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## Rafi

If not for the bravery of young Lt Syed Yasir and other hero's this could have been much worse, we have to hit the takfiri hard, and show them the meaning of terror, enough is enough, we have to wipe these turds out.

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## Hammy007

safriz said:


> yaar nobody escaped. why not wait for an ISPR statement or try dig out this evenings press conference frlm navy cheif. he mentioned terrorists caught alive.


 
no one has been caught alive why you think if they caught them alive would have been lying about it??


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## JonAsad

RAZA SAHI said:


> I agree with you but who is going to deal with the financial hub for all terrorists, this country called Saudi Arabia has been funding and promoting its violent ideology for a very long time leading to this global predicament.
> 
> Perhaps USA can use its clout to exterminate the ideological and financial source of terrorism that stems from Middle Eastern nations especially Saudi Arabia.
> @t faz
> 
> i agree with ur view but i think it ll be better if we counter there ideology, reason is it's more dangerous than there money & funding for these entities.


 
whats up with these specific UK bread and fed Pakistanis and Saudi Arabia? Are you constantly brain washed or some thing?-

Speculating that a whole country including its government is supporting terrorism inside Pakistan requires solid evidence/ proofs- Do you have any?- Personal hate/ or Words of mouth doesn't count in here-


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## RAZA SAHI

IF I AM NOT WRONG, THE VERY PURPOSE OF THE {SSW} IS TO PROTECT THE AIR FORCE BASES & IT'S ASSETS. WEREN'T THERE ANY {SSW} EMPLOYED AT PNS MEHRAN OR PAF FAISAL, IF THEY WERE THEN DID THEY JUST FAIL TO PROTECT THE BASE AND ASSETS PRESENT AT THE BASE.


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## Rafi

The takfir have to be destroyed they are the true enemies of Islam, you cannot negotiate with them or deal with them, like india or another nation state, they are totally delusional and brain washed individuals that have to be put down like rabid dogs. Nuff said.


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## Rafi

RAZA SAHI said:


> IF I AM NOT WRONG, THE VERY PURPOSE OF THE {SSW} IS TO PROTECT THE AIR FORCE BASES & IT'S ASSETS. WEREN'T THERE ANY {SSW} EMPLOYED AT PNS MEHRAN OR PAF FAISAL, IF THEY WERE THEN DID THEY JUST FAIL TO PROTECT THE BASE AND ASSETS PRESENT AT THE BASE.


 
My friend special forces are used for offensive special operations and not glorified security guards.


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## Hammy007

Rafi said:


> The takfir have to be destroyed they are the true enemies of Islam, you cannot negotiate with them or deal with them, like india or another nation state, they are totally delusional and brain washed individuals that have to be put down like rabid dogs. Nuff said.


 
why are you talking in riddles, who are these takfiris?? please speak loud...


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## Rafi

Hammy007 said:


> why are you talking in riddles, who are these takfiris?? please speak loud...


 
The takfiri are the ones who's ideology allows mass murder of innocent people, they failed in Algeria and other places and Inshallah they will fail in Pakistan.

---------- Post added at 11:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------




DelhiDareDevil said:


> People here are acting like China is Pakistan savier and guardian angel, and going over the top with Chinese love.
> 
> (Fact is China just wants a port in Pakistan to get access to whole of asia without paying tariffs.)


 
India is our eternal enemy for sure

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## Hammy007

Rafi said:


> The takfiri are the ones who's ideology allows mass murder of innocent people, they failed in Algeria and other places and Inshallah they will fail in Pakistan.


 
why are you continuing the rehman malik propaganda, why dont you say about the name of the people you think are takfiris and are mass mirdering, as i can see only americans are also mass murdering the pakistani people through drone attacks


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## JonAsad

RAZA SAHI said:


> IF I AM NOT WRONG, THE VERY PURPOSE OF THE {SSW} IS TO PROTECT THE AIR FORCE BASES & IT'S ASSETS. WEREN'T THERE ANY {SSW} EMPLOYED AT PNS MEHRAN OR PAF FAISAL, IF THEY WERE THEN DID THEY JUST FAIL TO PROTECT THE BASE AND ASSETS PRESENT AT THE BASE.


 
You know sundays- and booz-
unfortunately for these talibs fridays are week ends- so they are working on sundays-

---------- Post added at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 PM ----------




Rafi said:


> India is our eternal enemy for sure


 
I second that-


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## RazorMC

Glorious Resolve said:


> whats up with these specific UK bread and fed Pakistanis and Saudi Arabia? Are you constantly brain washed or some thing?-
> 
> Speculating that a whole country including its government is supporting terrorism inside Pakistan requires solid evidence/ proofs- Do you have any?- Personal hate/ or Words of mouth doesn't count in here-


 
True, it may not the whole country but there are individuals who are willing to send some money their way. That is a huge problem.
What we have to do is talk directly. The military needs to understand that it's about time we learned the whole truth. That is the least we deserve. Approach everyone supporting these acitivites in any way and tell them it's enough. If they agree to stop then that's good. But if not then we have no choice but to hit them hard.

Any sovereign country involved should be dealt with too. No exception.

Initiate a Civil Defense program and make it compulsory for every Pakistani male and optional for females. Let's see how these self-destructing scumbags like it when they are the ones being hit day and night.


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## JonAsad

RazorMC said:


> True*, it may not the whole country but there are individuals who are willing to send some money their way. That is a huge problem.*
> What we have to do is talk directly. The military needs to understand that it's about time we learned the whole truth. That is the least we deserve. Approach everyone supporting these acitivites in any way and tell them it's enough. If they agree to stop then that's good. But if not then we have no choice but to hit them hard.
> 
> Any sovereign country involved should be dealt with too. No exception.
> 
> Initiate a Civil Defense program and make it compulsory for every Pakistani male and optional for females. Let's see how these self-destructing scumbags like it when they are the ones being hit day and night.


 
Even i agree on that- but then again what makes them call it the biggest threat for Pakistan's existence- while there are many more- including our beloved neighbors on both sides- left right- or east west- who aswell support terrorism inside Pakistan--


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## khanz

enough is enough every military base in pakistan should boost security now all foreigners should be banned from coming within a certain radius of sensitive sites,there should miles of barb wire fencing,buffer zones,sniper towers,sniffer dogs ,metal detectors,x-ray machines and multiple security gates and all staff should report any unknown person on the site anyone coming in without strict proof of clearance and a cavity search should be shot.Sorry to say israelis have the right idea in this respect.


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## RAZA SAHI

whats up with these specific UK bread and fed Pakistanis and Saudi Arabia? Are you constantly brain washed or some thing?-

Speculating that a whole country including its government is supporting terrorism inside Pakistan requires solid evidence/ proofs- Do you have any?- Personal hate/ or Words of mouth doesn't count in here-


FIRST OF ALL LET ME TELL YOU THAT I AM NOT A BRITISH BORN & BRITISH FED, CONSTANTLY BRAIN WASHED PAKISTANI. YOU ARE A MILLION MILES AWAY FROM REALITY. I AM A VILLAGE BORN PURE WHO WAS RAISED IN A VERY TRADITIONAL RURAL PUNJABI FAMILY, AND TRUST ME I AM VERY PROUD OF THAT. I THINK MY USER NAME SHOULD'VE GIVEN U A LOT OF CLUES.

SECOND I AM NOT SPECULATING, IT'S A REALITY.HAVE U EVER WONDERED WHERE DOES THESE MASSIVE MADRASSAS OF A SPECIFIC SECT GET THEIR FUNDING FROM, I HAVE SEEN THESE MADRASSAS VERY CLOSELY. THE IDEOLOGY THAT IS PREACHED IN THESE MADRASSAS IS SAUDI IMPORTED, AND WILL ULTIMATELY SERVE THE SAUDI INTEREST OR THE ARAB INTEREST. HOW IS THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT NOT COMPLICIT IN THIS CRIME, THE COUNTRY WHICH WE CONSIDER OUR STRATEGIC ALLY, AND A CLOSE FRIEND DOES'NT STOP THE FUNDING OF THESE TERRORIST ENTITIES.


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## farhan_9909

ramu said:


> From 1947 till date, that is one thing that is common among Pakistanis. Look what it has done to your country. Shun violence and proxies and Pakistan will stand on its own feet.


 
my friend
let me telly ou that blasts started in pakistan only 5-7 years back

before that pakistan was better than india in all aspects except in movies area.

in an article i read that pak per capita more than 2 times to that of indian per capita in 1980's

so we were better than you for decades now it doesnt mean that we are left behind than you.
we will catch you as soon as the USA leaves afghanistan

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## ramu

farhan_9909 said:


> my friend
> let me telly ou that blasts started in pakistan only 5-7 years back
> 
> before that pakistan was better than india in all aspects except in movies area.
> 
> in an article i read that pak per capita more than 2 times to that of indian per capita in 1980's
> 
> so we were better than you for decades now it doesnt mean that we are left behind than you.
> we will catch you as soon as the USA leaves afghanistan


 
All the best and I will be happy to live next a prosperous and vibrant Pakistan.


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## desioptimist

RAZA SAHI said:


> whats up with these specific UK bread and fed Pakistanis and Saudi Arabia? Are you constantly brain washed or some thing?-
> 
> Speculating that a whole country including its government is supporting terrorism inside Pakistan requires solid evidence/ proofs- Do you have any?- Personal hate/ or Words of mouth doesn't count in here-
> 
> 
> FIRST OF ALL LET ME TELL YOU THAT I AM NOT A BRITISH BORN & BRITISH FED, CONSTANTLY BRAIN WASHED PAKISTANI. YOU ARE A MILLION MILES AWAY FROM REALITY. I AM A VILLAGE BORN PURE WHO WAS RAISED IN A VERY TRADITIONAL RURAL PUNJABI FAMILY, AND TRUST ME I AM VERY PROUD OF THAT. I THINK MY USER NAME SHOULD'VE GIVEN U A LOT OF CLUES.
> 
> SECOND I AM NOT SPECULATING, IT'S A REALITY.HAVE U EVER WONDERED WHERE DOES THESE MASSIVE MADRASSAS OF A SPECIFIC SECT GET THEIR FUNDING FROM, I HAVE SEEN THESE MADRASSAS VERY CLOSELY. THE IDEOLOGY THAT IS PREACHED IN THESE MADRASSAS IS SAUDI IMPORTED, AND WILL ULTIMATELY SERVE THE SAUDI INTEREST OR THE ARAB INTEREST. HOW IS THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT NOT COMPLICIT IN THIS CRIME, THE COUNTRY WHICH WE CONSIDER OUR STRATEGIC ALLY, AND A CLOSE FRIEND DOES'NT STOP THE FUNDING OF THESE TERRORIST ENTITIES.


 Raza sahi, such soudi funded education institutions are in UK too. Recently there was a program about that in BBC where undecover reporters got the material that is used to brainwash children.
Hope you know that already, dont send your children to such religious schools in UK.


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## Xeric

Lt.Yasir who embraced Shahadat during Operation Against Terrorist At PAF Base And PNS Mehran

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## StrikeForce

Pakistani militants hit Karachi naval base in Bin Laden revenge attack
Pakistani Taliban claims responsibility as insurgents kill at least 12 people and destroy aircraft including US-made spy plane

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Declan Walsh in Islamabad
guardian.co.uk, Monday 23 May 2011 06.13 BST
Article history

Pakistani Taliban says it carried out deadly attack in response to killing of Osama bin Laden Link to this video
Pakistani commandos continued to battle with heavily armed militants at a naval airbase in Karachi on Monday after 10 hours of fighting triggered by a Taliban assault to avenge the death of Osama bin Laden.

Blasts were heard after dawn local time as the military stepped up its counterattack on insurgents inside the PNS Mehran base, just off one of the city's busiest roads.

Up to 20 insurgents attacked the base from several sides late on Sunday, killing at least 12 people and blowing up aircraft including a US-manufactured surveillance plane.

Television images showed flames andthick smoke billowing from the base as aircraft caught fire, while bursts of gunfire and explosions rang out across the city.

A Pakistani Taliban spokesman claimed responsibility. "It was the revenge of martyrdom of Osama bin Laden. It was the proof that we are still united and powerful," Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters by telephone from an undisclosed location.

The daring assault was a fresh embarrassment for the Pakistani military, three weeks after US Navy Seals travelling on five helicopters breached the country's air defences to carry out the raid that killed Bin Laden.

The Taliban have not attacked such a sensitive facility since the February 2009 assault on army headquarters in Rawalpindi.

The interior minister, Rehman Malik, said the militants attacked from the rear of the base at around 10.30 on Sunday night. They headed immediately for the aircraft hangars, where they destroyed two planes and a helicopter including an US Orion P-3C maritime surveillance plane, which Pakistan had received last year. A jet fuel tanker also exploded.

"They were carrying guns, rocket-propelled grenades [RPG] and hand grenades. They hit the aircraft with an RPG," a navy spokesman, Commander Salman Ali, said.

Pakistani Special Services Group (SSG) commandos were sent to the base, supported by helicopters, triggering intense exchanges of gunfire that rang out across the city. Fighting continued through the night with a fresh round of explosions in the early morning - eight in the space of 30 minutes - as commandos reportedly flung grenades as they tried to storm a hangar where the Taliban were holed up.

At least 12 people were killed including 11 naval personnel and one paramilitary ranger. Up to five militants are thought to have been killed. There were unconfirmed reports that a foreigner, possibly a Chinese national, had been taken hostage. The US embassy said no Americans were present.

"We have been able to confine them to one building and an operation is under way either to kill or capture them," said Malik.

Pakistan's prime minister, Yusuf Raza Gilani, condemned the attack as a "cowardly act of terror".

Ehsanullah said the attackers had plentiful stocks of ammunition and food. "They can fight and survive for three days," he said.

Meanwhile, the Afghan Taliban denied unsourced reports that its leader Mullah Omar had been killed in Pakistan, saying he was alive and in Afghanistan. Spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid told news agencies that the reports were "absolutely wrong. We completely deny these rumours. He is inside Afghanistan and he is busy directing military operations with his commanders," he said.

Afghan news channel Tolo quoted an anonymous Afghan intelligence official as saying that Omar had been killed while being moved from Quetta to North Waziristan with the help of former Pakistani intelligence chief General Hamid Gul.

Gul denied the report, telling the Associated Press he had never met Omar. "This is propaganda, sheer deception, disinformation," Gul said.


----------



## isis

Is this a joke what the was the Navy doing,

We cant protect our bases now.

Does any1 know how much those 2 Assets cost, We just got them last year, those planes brought a strategic advantage to our military.

And a few ppl can just destroy them, what is this FAKE military or PRETEND military.

Military was the only institute which I though had some merit, U know I think seriously we shd get on our knees and beg China to take over our military protection.

BECAUSE APPARENTLY OUR MILITARY CANT PROTECT IT SELF !!!!


----------



## StrikeForce

23 May 2011 Last updated at 16:57 GMT Share this pageEmailPrint
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Pakistan: Troops end attack on Karachi naval air base



BBC's Aleem Maqbool says the attack was "very coordinated, sophisticated"
Continue reading the main story
Taliban Conflict

Preparing Nato's exit
Can the insurgents be defeated? Watch
Battle for loyalty
Who are the Taliban?
Pakistani troops have ended a siege by militants who attacked a naval air force base in Karachi, killing at least 16 people - including 10 soldiers.

The attackers managed to hold hostage several foreigners at the base, but officials say they were later rescued.

The Pakistan Taliban says Sunday's raid was to avenge Osama Bin Laden's killing by US special forces in the Pakistani town of Abbottabad on 2 May.

Many attacks have been carried out since then.

"It was the revenge of martyrdom of Osama Bin Laden. It was the proof that we are still united and powerful," Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters news agency.

Continue reading the main story
At the scene


Syed Shoaib Hasan
BBC News, Karachi
Clouds of black smoke billowed over the Mehran airbase when I arrived about half an hour after the attack began.

Ambulances, with sirens wailing, stood outside the gate of the compound, which was sealed soon after the attack began. They were joined by dozens of TV satellite trucks and journalists.

Initially, there was intermittent gunfire. However, 15 minutes after I arrived there was an exchange of fire that lasted for several minutes.

We had to lie on the ground as bullets and shrapnel whizzed over our heads.

After successfully freeing hostages captured by the gunmen, security forces swept through the complex to mop up any remaining resistance.

They were backed by gunship helicopters - which kept a constant vigil over the air base.

It took more than 15 hours for dozens of security forces to take control of the base.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said 10 soldiers had died and 15 were wounded in the attack.

Two attackers were also killed and a third blew himself up. Another is believed to be buried under debris and two more are thought to have escaped.

An unexploded suicide jacket and live grenades were found, the minister added.

There were 17 foreigners at the site, including 11 Chinese aviation trainers, but all are safe, Mr Malik said. He added that all of them were later rescued uninjured.

The attack is similar to a raid in October 2009 in which Taliban militants laid siege to the army headquarters in the garrison town of Rawalpindi, killing dozens.

The BBC's Aleem Maqbool in Islamabad says the Karachi incident will revive fears about the security of Pakistan's nuclear installations.

It is also another major blow to falling morale of the military after the raid on Bin Laden, correspondents say.

Aircraft burned
On Sunday evening at 2230 (1730 GMT), militants stormed three hangars housing aircraft at the Mehran naval aviation base, according to officials.

Mr Malik said they cut through barbed wire at a place on the perimeter where they could not be detected by security cameras, and they were wearing black.

However, eyewitnesses say the attackers were dressed as naval officials and were aware of the security protocol at the base and carried themselves like soldiers.

Their first targets were aircraft parked on the tarmac and equipment in nearby hangers, says the BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan at the scene.

The militants used rocket-propelled grenades to damage and destroy several warplanes, witnesses said. These included the Pakistan navy's premier anti-submarine and marine surveillance aircraft - the US-made P-3C Orion.

At least two of these multi-million dollar planes were set ablaze.


The gunmen then opened indiscriminate fire, killing several naval personnel as they carried their raid into the heart of the base.

Subsequently, navy commandos and marines launched a counter-assault. Dozens of heavily armed army reinforcements also arrived to provide cover, backed by gunship helicopters.

Some of the militants were killed, officials say.

It took the security forces more than 15 hours to secure the base.

Officials say that troops were now combing the base for any remaining militants but they have to be careful because of military aircraft on the site.

"Because of the presence of several assets on the base, the operation is being carried out in a cautious, smart way," Irfan ul Haq told the Associated Press news agency.

"That's why it's taking so long."

On Friday, the Taliban bombed a US consulate convoy in Peshawar, killing one Pakistani.

Other attacks by Pakistani militants this month include a raid on a security post that killed two police in the north-west and a twin suicide bombing at a paramilitary police training centre.


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## DelhiDareDevil

isis said:


> Is this a joke what the was the Navy doing,
> 
> We cant protect our bases now.
> 
> Does any1 know how much those 2 Assets cost, We just got them last year, those planes brought a strategic advantage to our military.
> 
> And a few ppl can just destroy them, what is this FAKE military or PRETEND military.
> 
> Military was the only institute which I though had some merit, U know I think seriously we shd get on our knees and beg China to take over our military protection.
> 
> BECAUSE APPARENTLY OUR MILITARY CANT PROTECT IT SELF !!!!



Human life cost more then planes dude.


----------



## ares

*There were only 4 attackers involved in the attack ..all the news of more than 20 assailants being involved are mere exaggerations.*


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## Dhruv V Singh

I am amazed that neither the President or Prime minister has given any statement yet? or have they?


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## StrikeForce

An attack on Naval base is on one side & Will this give high morale to Pakistan Taliban to take over nuke facilities in Pakistan? What will be the corrective action by Pakistan against such threats in future?


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## StrikeForce

*Pakistani interior minister on navy air base attack in Karachi
English.news.cn 2011-05-24 00:21:48	
by Misbah Saba Malik
*
ISLAMABAD, May 23 (Xinhua) -- Ten security personnel were killed and 15 others injured in the fight against the terrorist attack on a navy air base in Karachi, said the Pakistani Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Monday.

Talking to the media at the Chief Minister House of Sindh province after a visit to the attacked PNS Mehran navy air base, the minister said that four of the six militants involved in the attack were also killed while the other two managed to escape.

Two naval surveillance planes P3C Orion were destroyed by the terrorists who were equipped with rocket propelled grenades, light machine guns and hand grenades, said the minister.

He said that 17 foreigners who were there to give training to naval personnel were rescued by the navy commandos.

"The Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) have claimed responsibility for the attack," said the minister.

According to the minister, the attack started at 10:30 p.m. local time Sunday night and the clashes between the terrorists and the armed forces continued till 3:30 p.m. local time on Monday.

He said two terrorists were killed by the security forces in clashes, another blew himself up in one of the buildings while the body of the fourth is said to be in the debris. "They were wearing black shirts and trousers," said the minister.

The Interior Minister said two other suspected terrorists were stated to be seen running away by eyewitnesses at the base and added that the terrorists sneaked into the base from the back side by scaling the walls with the help of ladders.

"Two ladders and cutters were also found from the spot," he said, adding that the terrorists were between 22 to 25 years of age with fair and sharp complexion.

Rehman Malik said that the President and the Prime Minister were in constant touch with him during the operation and added that an investigation team led by Pakistan Navy will be established whose report will be made public.

He said all terrorist activities were being planned in Waziristan and al-Qaida and TTP were destroying the assets of the country at the behest of other forces that wanted to destabilize Pakistan.

The minister appealed to all political parties in the country to get united against common enemy and protect the homeland.

Editor: Mu Xuequan




Source: *Pakistani interior minister on navy air base attack in Karachi*


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## Leader

isis said:


> Is this a joke what the was the Navy doing,
> 
> We cant protect our bases now.
> 
> Does any1 know how much those 2 Assets cost, We just got them last year, those planes brought a strategic advantage to our military.
> 
> And a few ppl can just destroy them, what is this FAKE military or PRETEND military.
> 
> Military was the only institute which I though had some merit, U know I think seriously we shd get on our knees and beg China to take over our military protection.
> 
> BECAUSE APPARENTLY OUR MILITARY CANT PROTECT IT SELF !!!!


 
dont worry dude, the Country requires some more blood, we are just moving our relations in the international scenario, and its gonna hurt someone...and in that process, its going to stop us from making that shift... we ACTUALLY have realized what we ought to do... and its obvious that it has a price that we would need to pay...

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## Safriz

isis said:


> Is this a joke what the was the Navy doing,
> 
> We cant protect our bases now.
> 
> Does any1 know how much those 2 Assets cost, We just got them last year, those planes brought a strategic advantage to our military.
> 
> And a few ppl can just destroy them, what is this FAKE military or PRETEND military.
> 
> Military was the only institute which I though had some merit, U know I think seriously we shd get on our knees and beg China to take over our military protection.
> 
> BECAUSE APPARENTLY OUR MILITARY CANT PROTECT IT SELF !!!!


 
all is not lost. they may have learnt their lesson and security can be improved


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## DV RULES

ARY reported that a foreign hand surely involved in attack over PNS Mehran where only India kept pain from p3c orion air crafts. 

ARY News :: ????? ??? ????: ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ????? 

Unit cost is 36 million US $.


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## Leader

DV RULES said:


> ARY reported that a foreign hand surely involved in attack over PNS Mehran where only India kept pain from p3c orion air crafts.
> 
> ARY News :: ????? ??? ????: ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????
> 
> Unit cost is 36 million US $.


 
also look at what America has stated...it seems they are threatening us from dire consequences of making the shift towards the emerging world power... your take ?


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## Rafi

What is apparent that india is also the enemy of Pakistan, it's race, religion and land, these takfiri scum will be wiped out, the gloves will come off now, but I will encourage my fellow Pakistani's to also realize that in terms of hatred for us - the indian's are as big an enemy as the takfiri.


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## Rafi

Dedicated to our Hero's


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## a. hussain

safriz said:


> all is not lost. they may have learnt their lesson and security can be improved


 
Brother are you still dreaming. If our armed forces and agencies had taken serious note of any of the earlier mishaps/ disasters than we would not have been facing this situation. Bhai they are not even accepting that there was any security breach & your are imagining that they will learn something is all crap. They will forget this thing within this week and just lip service will be done, nothing else is expected from their side as they are all useless/ incapable.

Thanks


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## Peregrine

So is it true that only one Orion has been destroyed, one damaged & the third one is safe & 7 more will be coming from US?


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## Rafi

Dedicated to Lt Syed Yasir Abbas and other Hero's

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## Leader

Peregrine said:


> So is it true that only one Orion has been destroyed, one damaged & the third one is safe & 7 more will be coming from US?


 
Yes I have heard the same, the problem is now what USA will ask us to do against those 7 new Orions?


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## majesticpankaj

Pakistan needs to win this war at any cost.... WOT is as much as pakistani's war as american's war... somebody should think if americans leaves without getting rid of this scums and in future they will again try to target US or Europe.. they they will come back to afganistan and there will be a collateral damage of unimaginable magnitude.. so better kill the bastards.. and make the pakistan a more stable and prosperous place..


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Areesh said:


> I am expecting the same mitti pao attitude after this incident too. No proper investigation, no culprits, no persecutions.


 
why do you think these attacks are still going on?

it's a nameless faceless enemy that hits and then runs away...I think the people need to also go into police mode and report ANY suspicious person. And the authorities need to get their act together.


media is going all gung-ho now. As could be expected of them, they are talking about ''Pakistanis angry over bin laden raid'' (they dont talk about sovereignty, just talk about Pakistanis being angry)....they talk about the nukes. They say this and say that -- massive psy-ops are being played on Pakistan. And our incompetent government --which doesnt even issue a single statement or address to the nation -- seems almost complicit in this because of their lack of courage to say or do anything effective


suffice to say, Pakistan is caught between rock and a hard place....we are indeed at war for our survival and for the soul of Pakistan which on one end is being assailed by these terrorist scum and on the other hand by shameless, spineless civilian officials in government who are willing to fake their credentials, take bribes, and even sell their own mothers to the devil...and this comes especially at a time where certain ''allies'' are ending up to be as troublesome as our enemies such as the one to the east

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## Rafi

When Pakistan has sons like Lt Yasir Abbas - india or the takfiri cannot defeat us.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Rafi said:


> When Pakistan has sons like Lt Yasir Abbas - india or the takfiri cannot defeat us.


 
Hey buddy, what does takfiri mean?


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## Rafi

The takfiri and india also are our eternal enemies - we have to realize that the indian establishment's Raison d'être is the destruction of everything we hold dear, there can never be anything better than a cold peace with them, once all outstanding issues are resolved.


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## Rafi

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Hey buddy, what does takfiri mean?


 
CD brother - takfiri are the ones who believe they are right in killing other Muslims - because they are not "Muslim" enough - they were the ones responsible for the killing fields in Algeria all through the 90's


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## Chinese-Dragon

Rafi said:


> CD brother - takfiri are the ones who believe they are right in killing other Muslims - because they are not "Muslim" enough - they were the ones responsible for the killing fields in Algeria all through the 90's


 
Thanks for the explanation brother.

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## desioptimist

Can I ask Indians here to be a bit more sensitive. I know you feel like beating your chest saying We did it, and nothing will make you happy than pakistani govt saying so, but that is not the truth. We will only know once there is a preliminary investigation at least.

Also please dont call it stage managed, we did not like when same was said about mumbai.

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## Canadian

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> why do you think these attacks are still going on?
> 
> it's a nameless faceless enemy that hits and then runs away...I think the people need to also go into police mode and report ANY suspicious person. And the authorities need to get their act together.
> 
> 
> What kind of suspicious activity? People have a right to privacy which should not be violated because of baseless suspicion.


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## Dance

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> And our incompetent government --which doesnt even issue a single statement or address to the nation -- seems almost complicit in this because of their lack of courage to say or do anything.



Well we know the government of Pakistan is useless and that they could decrease suicide attacks or even stop them of they made an effort. But why don't the people of Pakistan come out and say/do something? People could organize mass protests to have the government resign or hold early elections, but the problem is that when the people of Pakistan don't care enough to stand up and fight for their country then nothing will ever change in Pakistan. People in Pakistan are only willing to go on talkshows or post their frustrations online but not actually wiling to do anything productive

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## Peregrine

*What is wrong with you people? Don't you have anything better to do in your lives other than squabbling like monkeys. *

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## mikkix

Rafi said:


> CD brother - takfiri are the ones who believe they are right in killing other Muslims - because they are not "Muslim" enough - they were the ones responsible for the killing fields in Algeria all through the 90's


 
Common bro, The word takfiri is a bullshit,,,,
Its all strategic and political game is going on with the name of every thing so why not takfiri..
We invented this word to make only ourselves convince.


----------



## RayBan

Dance said:


> Well we know the government of Pakistan is useless and that they could decrease suicide attacks or even stop them of they made an effort. But why don't the people of Pakistan come out and say/do something? People could organize mass protests to have the government resign or hold early elections, but the problem is that when the people of Pakistan don't care enough to stand up and fight for their country then nothing will ever change in Pakistan. People in Pakistan are only willing to go on talkshows or post their frustrations online but not actually wiling to do anything productive


 
you said all this and very rightly said too, but what exactly have YOU tried to do for your country ? CHAT on defence forum and grow awareness????


----------



## mikkix

Chinese-Dragon said:


> Thanks for the explanation brother.


 
There is no such word called takfiri in Islam..
its our own creation...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Leader said:


> also look at what America has stated...it seems they are threatening us from dire consequences of making the shift towards the emerging world power... your take ?


 
Laugh at me all you want... but this whole bloody operation has America and India written all over it...

I am particularly impressed by the Indians... I dont believe that Mumbai had Pakistani involvement (Indian members feel free to PM me if you can send some proof) but this attack is in my mind definitely by the Indians with the blessings of America... 

I think its time that Pakistan Army starts preparing itself for air strikes inside India as a retaliation for this attack on our country...

and yes... Get as many American POWs as you can from Afghanistan before striking India...


----------



## Spring Onion

desioptimist said:


> Her seductive expressions do not match the tempo/lyric of the song, but nice post. Thanks.


 
she cant match her mother . Noor Jehan when sung that song war was going on and she used to record 34 hours at studio despite war


----------



## Dance

RayBan said:


> you said all this and very rightly said too, but what exactly have YOU tried to do for your country ? CHAT on defence forum and grow awareness????


. Maybe you have sight problems or else you would have noticed that I don't live in Pakistan. If you can tell me how to bring about a change in Pakistan without actually living there or only staying there for short periods of time then please tell me


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## Spring Onion

Xeric said:


> Lt.Yasir who embraced Shahadat during Operation Against Terrorist At PAF Base And PNS Mehran


 
*Salute to brave soldiers, police and rangers*

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## iampak

What happened is past ? .... 
What lesson did we learn ? 
where is accountability ?
What is the way forward?
Do we have plan to improve ?

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## Burger Boy

How did they manage to attack the aircrafts? Does this base have proper hangars? or are the planes parked outdoors.


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## Dance

iampak said:


> What happened is past ? ....
> What lesson did we learn ?
> where is accountability ?
> What is the way forward?
> Do we have plan to improve ?


 
Nope. Nothing will be done to prevent similar attacks, government/security forces will condemn the attacks, people will go on talkshows to discuss who could have done it, and people will forget about it. Then if God forbid another attack happens again, the same cycle will continue.

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## Vinod2070

The escape of two militants is what is most surprising.

These guys have got pretty daring one must say. Also the escape of two shows they were not suicide attackers but highly motivated and trained.

Conspiracy theorists abound in Pakistan but its yet another wake up call for Pakistan. Good to see many of them recognizing it.


----------



## Spring Onion

d1rty Minded said:


> How did they manage to attack the aircrafts? Does this base have proper hangars? or are the planes parked outdoors.


 
They have hangers but looking at these parked outside it was to hit. even people could see them from their rooftops


----------



## Peregrine

d1rty Minded said:


> How did they manage to attack the aircrafts? Does this base have proper hangars? or are the planes parked outdoors.


 
It does have hangers, but they were parked in the open. They used rockets to destroy them, but according to some news only one has been destroyed while the other was damaged.


----------



## MastanKhan

Canadian said:


> Abu Zolfiqar said:
> 
> 
> 
> why do you think these attacks are still going on?
> 
> it's a nameless faceless enemy that hits and then runs away...I think the people need to also go into police mode and report ANY suspicious person. And the authorities need to get their act together.
> 
> 
> What kind of suspicious activity? People have a right to privacy which should not be violated because of baseless suspicion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Canadian----So, accordingly---next time some body is molesting your family---the viewers should walk away---so as not to disturb the privacy of the criminals----. Indeed you do have a wonderful thought----.
> 
> Have you ever seen those signs in your neighbourhood-----" NEIGHBOURHOOD WATCH "----.
> 
> Canadian---why do some pakistani teens take stupidity to the next level--.
Click to expand...


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## Hammy007

has the post mortem report of terrorists been released???, when will it be released?


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## a. hussain

Govt must need to immediately investigate & take immediate action after such efforts i.e. Thoroughly screen-out each and every personnel at the bases, Used Traffic cameras within the city which KMC was using for traffic monitoring earlier which may provide some details/ leads, search localities strictly where peoples from a particular region are normally residing etc. Being a layman if I can think of some steps to grab the culprits why our govt & agencies can't?????


----------



## aks18

Vinod2070 said:


> The escape of two militants is what is most surprising.
> 
> These guys have got pretty daring one must say. Also the escape of two shows they were not suicide attackers but highly motivated and trained.
> 
> Conspiracy theorists abound in Pakistan but its yet another wake up call for Pakistan. Good to see many of them recognizing it.


 

yes they were equipped with night googles and it can only be provided by sum foreign agencies most probably CIA and RAW.


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## Nothing

aks18 said:


> yes they were equipped with night googles and it can only be provided by sum foreign agencies most probably CIA and RAW.


 
night vision equippement - Google Search

Here you .. to buy any of them you don't need RAW or CIA support.. what you need is credit card


----------



## RayBan

aks18 said:


> yes they were equipped with night googles and it can only be provided by sum foreign agencies most probably CIA and RAW.


 
exactly RAW and CIA have second hand military equipment shops in dera gazi khan, wana purchase some? ill recommend you some discount


----------



## Vinod2070

Nothing said:


> night vision equippement - Google Search
> 
> Here you .. to buy any of them you don't need RAW or CIA support.. what you need is credit card


 
These guys got lots of funding from their masters in the gulf. Money is the least of the problems for them.


----------



## Spring Onion

Hammy007 said:


> has the post mortem report of terrorists been released???, when will it be released?


 
No not yet . the bodies have been handed over to police .


----------



## Safriz

Nothing said:


> night vision equippement - Google Search
> 
> Here you .. to buy any of them you don't need RAW or CIA support.. what you need is credit card


 
these night visions are for fishing. bird watching. fox hunting and other hobby activities. military grade used for precision attacks are expensi e and not available to public.


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## MastanKhan

d1rty Minded said:


> How did they manage to attack the aircrafts? Does this base have proper hangars? or are the planes parked outdoors.


 
Hi,

How did they manage to attack the airplanes----. Take a look at the burnt out fuselage of the aircraft----the hangar is right close to the boundary wall----and right next to the boundary wall---on thwe slope of the hill there are apt housing----the first thing the attackers did was jumped in and attacked the target of oppurtunity----the plane was right next to the boundary wall----.

Is their a limit to stupidity----. Another crow feather added to the failures of pak millitary-------. It is amazing---gets to be unbelievable.

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## Safriz

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> How did they manage to attack the airplanes----. Take a look at the burnt out fuselage of the aircraft----the hangar is right close to the boundary wall----and right next to the boundary wall---on thwe slope of the hill there are apt housing----the first thing the attackers did was jumped in and attacked the target of oppurtunity----the plane was right next to the boundary wall----.
> 
> Is their a limit to stupidity----. Another crow feather added to the failures of pak millitary-------. It is amazing---gets to be unbelievable.


 
agreed on that. it was monumental stupidity on part of navy to stationsuchhigh value defence asset next to a civilian population where even gangs have access to rocket launchrs.

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## Spring Onion

Mercenary said:


> Well these guys were agitated by the death of bin laden. They just need an excuse to become agitated. Drone strikes have done devastating damage. 2008 and 2009, Pakistan suffered heavily in daily attacks, in 2010 and 2011, the attacks are down, believe it or not, all due to drone strikes.


 
we are paying for US WoT.

we must have stopped and formulated a clear foreign policy unfortunately we dint.

now its time to sit down and think over it by all quarters including Politicians, forces and media too

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## Super Falcon

we have examples like Israel and Russia who also suffered these or worst than these type pf attacks. but their top Military and govt leadership always have one goal just capture one of them and you get all your answers and work from there and you see how much succesful they are man but our entire army cannot take 4 man it is big shame to our army why they did not put tier gas so they can capture them alive as one exteremist killed himself inside compound why not snipe them from far why kept 18 hours long mission this is a shame to entire nation sir bellieve me we are nothing but crap but at same hand i must praise those who lost their lifes im saying our army infastructre has been exposed we are no where at the standards of even USA rangers are better than our SSG


Meaning of SSG is kill or to be killed and our SSG wasted alot of time alot of time 4 man hold entire army for 18 hours is shame to pakistan army

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## Nothing

safriz said:


> these night visions are for fishing. bird watching. fox hunting and other hobby activities. military grade used for precision attacks are expensi e and not available to public.


 
Don't want to debate with you .. but my point is, people with advance night vision instruments means they are funded by CIA-RAW.. wow ... is there no other way in world to get them? ... can't they steel it from PA or some one in PA provides them ..common if you make the point that it is by CIA-RAW.. first establish link between TTP and CIA .. neither your government nor ISI/PA is pointing in that direction .. 
.. if you want to keep mind in closet for future use .. you can go with some stupid newspaper or bloggers who believes that each TTP member is on payroll of CIA..


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## Spring Onion

Super Falcon said:


> Meaning of SSG is kill or to be killed and our SSG wasted alot of time alot of time 4 man hold entire army for 18 hours is shame to pakistan army


 
You dont know the dynamics of operation so better keep quiet and dont post such things.


they had done a great job and saved other equipment from damage. they laid down their lives for the nation.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> How did they manage to attack the airplanes----. Take a look at the burnt out fuselage of the aircraft----the hangar is right close to the boundary wall----and right next to the boundary wall---on thwe slope of the hill there are apt housing----the first thing the attackers did was jumped in and attacked the target of oppurtunity----the plane was right next to the boundary wall----.
> 
> Is their a limit to stupidity----. Another crow feather added to the failures of pak millitary-------. It is amazing---gets to be unbelievable.


 
Every base in Pakistan is surrender by civil housings or they are on GT road , Its time to make new bases outside big cities and GHQ in Islamabad.

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## 53fd

Don't know why this is getting such attention from the international media... yes, Pakistan needs to root out the anti-state elements infiltrated in its agencies, but there are 'moles' & double agents out there in every agency. The Taliban is attacking the NATO forces mercilessly in Afghanistan, & is infiltrated much deeper in the Afghan Forces & agencies, & the situation in Pakistan is not half as bad as that in Afghanistan (although it is pretty bad).


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## Hammy007

Mercenary said:


> Well these guys were agitated by the death of bin laden. They just need an excuse to become agitated. Drone strikes have done devastating damage. 2008 and 2009, Pakistan suffered heavily in daily attacks, in 2010 and 2011, the attacks are down, believe it or not, all due to drone strikes.


 
the attacks were down when pakistan army stopped the swat operation, go to those areas see the youtube videos, its the common pakistanis who are dying daily, what sort of the ignorance you are living in??


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## 53fd

While the situation in Pakistan is grave, it is not critical the way it is in Afghanistan. Yet, it is Pakistan that is under the spotlight in the international media.


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## mirage 5000

Mercenary said:


> Well these guys were agitated by the death of bin laden. They just need an excuse to become agitated. Drone strikes have done devastating damage. 2008 and 2009, Pakistan suffered heavily in daily attacks, in 2010 and 2011, the attacks are down, believe it or not, all due to drone strikes.


 
SO AS PER YOU if drones are effective give us we will do this job . you know nation is angry because drone carry us flag not pakistani .and damn damn we cant make a drone ? last 3 years and no male UAV shame.


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## Safriz

Jana said:


> You dont know the dynamics of operation so better keep quiet and dont post such things.
> 
> 
> they had done a great job and saved other equipment from damage. they laid down their lives for the nation.


 
did you listen the PN cheifs news conference . he was saying that.he instructed SSG to capture the terrorists alive and thats why it took them so long.


----------



## macnurv

Jana said:


> You dont know the dynamics of operation so better keep quiet and dont post such things.
> 
> 
> they had done a great job and saved other equipment from damage. they laid down their lives for the nation.


 
Completely agree to that. No one should have any doubts regarding the bravery, valour and commitment of not only SSGN troopers but that of Rangers, Police Commandos and any one who was confronting them. What we should question is the competence of both military and political leadership which keeps on exposing our men to such hazards.


----------



## Gin ka Pakistan

safriz said:


> did you listen the PN cheifs news conference . he was saying that.he instructed SSG to capture the terrorists alive and thats why it took them so long.


 
So it could be possible that three SSG die doing that and the pig blow it self.


----------



## Spring Onion

aks18 said:


> yes we have nuke depot on GT road near gujranwala jihadis can lift those nukes easily.


 
Indians and US should contact these "jehadis" for taking out our nukes lolzzzzzz if they are so powerful

---------- Post added at 02:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 AM ----------




Gin ka Pakistan said:


> So it could be possible that three SSG die doing that and the pig blow it self.


 
yes two rats blown themselves while two were killed by the commandos


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## Hammy007

Khari Baat &#8211; 23 May 2011 | Pakistan Politics


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## macnurv

I still fail to understand why the Chief of Naval Staff chose to do a press conference when he himself had no facts or figures, nor complete operational details regarding the operation. He clearly showed his complete incompetence by saying he has been trying for the last 3 years to move the Base away from civilian areas. If your so powerless please resign.
His statements not only made any sense but were seeping with words of some one who is incapable of leading. He went further and stated he does not consider this as a "Security Breach/Lapse" if not this then may god have mercy upon us. I am having night mares about what Dear Admiral actually calls a Lapse. For gods sake enough with this incompetence, how many Yasir Abbas mothers of this nation have to sacrifice before we actually learn. We have already sacrificed 35,000.


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## Porus

Almost ten personnel of the armed forces martyred in the operatin against terrorists but only Lieutenant Yasir Abbas is getting the whole attention. What about the other nine shaheeds? Why are they not getting any attention of the media?

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## Hammy007

i dunno why these members namely muse, t-faz, niaz and mercenary are talking bullshitt like they are coming from intelligence background, by yelling islamic islamist, secular secular, by displaying their egos

people dont understand the attack was a big game and has no simple conclusion


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## Spring Onion

Porus said:


> Almost ten personnel of the armed forces martyred in the operatin against terrorists but only Lieutenant Yasir Abbas is getting the whole attention. What about the other nine shaheeds? Why are they not getting any attention of the media?


 
Seems you are watching selectively. please go and brows all channels they are now reaching out to families of all those martyred including the police officer and shuhada from Rangers as well.

their sacrifices are being highlighted and they are being saluted.

May Allah shower His mercy on Pakistan.


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## aks18

Hammy007 said:


> i dunno why these members namely muse, t-faz, niaz and mercenary are talking bullshitt like they are coming from intelligence background, by yelling islamic islamist, secular secular, by displaying their egos
> 
> people dont understand the attack was a big game and has no simple conclusion


 

because they think they are the only genius left in pakistan.


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## A1Kaid

Hammy007 said:


> i dunno why these members namely muse, t-faz, niaz and mercenary are talking bullshitt like they are coming from intelligence background, by yelling islamic islamist, secular secular, by displaying their egos
> 
> people dont understand the attack was a big game and has no simple conclusion


 

It's their routine, it's standard protocol. In order to peddle their political interest they have to malign what they oppose at opportunistic times. Don't be surprised. I'm not saying they are wrong nor am I saying they are right. Let's leave it at that.


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## mirage 5000

just one question what Pakistani nation has to do after this attack?


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## Spring Onion

mirage 5000 said:


> just one question what Pakistani nation has to do after this attack?


 
Get united . come on roads and stage peaceful protest against apathy of our govt our generals and political parties. 

Forced the govt to have a clear policy

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## aks18

Jana said:


> Get united . come on roads and stage peaceful protest against apathy of our govt our generals and political parties.
> 
> Forced the govt to have a clear policy


 

inshort support Imran khan


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## Spring Onion

A1Kaid said:


> It's because they are the true Guardians of Muhammad Ali Jinnah's (*rahmatullah ale*h ) Pakistan.


 
i corrected the bracketed thing

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## Spring Onion

aks18 said:


> inshort support Imran khan


 
 well NO. *just support Pakistan *

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## Spring Onion

Tshering22 said:


> This is something I agree with you very strongly, Jana.


 
Thats how politics is in subcontinent including BD too.

we are faced with familycracies


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## Safriz

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> So it could be possible that three SSG die doing that and the pig blow it self.


 
think for yourself. there were no hostages. just terrorists in a building or a confined area. if SSG just wanted to kill them.they had done it without loss or minimal loss of life. 12 service men died and it went on for 14 hours. the SSG were tryjng to do something other than just killing the terrorists.


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## RayBan

Jana said:


> Get united . come on roads and stage peaceful protest against apathy of our govt our generals and political parties.
> 
> Forced the govt to have a clear policy


 
the same can't be done by Pakistanis staying abroad? please explain this to DANCE.


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## Varad

Really sad incident. RIP to the dead.


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## Spring Onion

RayBan said:


> the same can't be done by Pakistanis staying abroad? please explain this to DANCE.


 
Well everyone has a role to play either you are sitting abroad or here. those sitting abroad can help in correcting misconception about our country that will be greater help and support than what we can do here in Pakistan


----------



## mirage 5000

Jana said:


> Get united . come on roads and stage peaceful protest against apathy of our govt our generals and political parties.
> 
> Forced the govt to have a clear policy


 
wrong idea pakistanis cant protest peacefully .next?


----------



## T-Faz

Jana said:


> well NO. *just support Pakistan *


 
Best post of the Month.

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## Spring Onion

mirage 5000 said:


> wrong idea pakistanis cant protest peacefully .next?


 
They can very well. we have seen that during Imran Khan dharna in Peshawar where all shades of politics were together. the issue is that of some vested elements that enter and try to sabotage the peaceful protest.


----------



## aks18

mirage 5000 said:


> wrong idea pakistanis cant protest peacefully .next?


 
wat wrong happend up til now in any PTI's rally or protest ?


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Madam You seriously believe someone other than TTP is involved in this.


 
The TTP wants the world to believe that they are some sort of unified group with a central command and control that plots all this.

The reality is that, like AQ, they function as a loose amalgamation of various gangs, Taliban factions and other extremist organizations across Pakistan and Afghanistan. These various groups may or may not cooperate in recruitment, training, attacks etc. They largely have independent leadership, with some loose acknowledgement of a 'central leader'. 

The TTP may or may not have known that this attack was being planned, and may or may not have provided some level of support for the attack in the form of material, training, men, funds etc.

Could be an AQ organized and led attack, with TTP taking credit since AQ does not have a major presence in the public sphere in Pakistan - AQ is basically using TTP (and some other organizations) to advance its agenda in Pakistan.


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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> Best post of the Month.


 
 can post against you now ?

one of your mods has some issues


----------



## Spring Onion

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> The TTP wants the world to believe that they are some sort of unified group with a central command and control that plots all this.
> 
> The reality is that, like AQ, they function as a loose amalgamation of various gangs, Taliban factions and other extremist organizations across Pakistan and Afghanistan. These various groups may or may not cooperate in recruitment, training, attacks etc. They largely have independent leadership, with some loose acknowledgement of a 'central leader'.
> 
> The TTP may or may not have known that this attack was being planned, and may or may not have provided some level of support for the attack in the form of material, training, men, funds etc.
> 
> Could be an AQ organized and led attack, with TTP taking credit since AQ does not have a major presence in the public sphere in Pakistan - AQ is basically using TTP (and some other organizations) to advance its agenda in Pakistan.


 
Agno TTP has been weakened so badly they dont have leadership. Baitullah, Hakimullah, Muslim Khan all have been reduced to dust so now this groups is just clinging to bigger terror groups .

here in Peshawar we joke about them that in morning when they wake up and someone tells them that there was an attack, they immediately claim it.


*My gut feeling is this attack might have close link with Lashkar-e-Jhangvi people*


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## no_koadsheding_plz

from various news Militants targeted Navy, not aircrafts: Naval Chief



> KARACHI: The chief of Pakistan Navy Admiral Nauman Bashir, rejecting the impression that terrorists wanted to cause material damage to Navy, has said that terrorists targeted the Naval forces, Geo News reported Sunday.
> 
> Naval Chief was addressing a press conference here after completion of retaliatory operation by Pakistans armed forces to regain complete control of PNS Mehran.
> 
> He said two destroyed aircrafts P-3C Orion were worth $40 million. Terrorists stormed PNS Mehran from Eastern side and were well experienced sharpshooters.
> 
> After entering into naval base, two of the militants mounted atop a tower while as many hid themselves behind the bushes, he revealed, adding that they later fired six rockets.
> 
> Nauman dismissed rumors of security breach. This attack could not be termed as security lapse, he stated.
> 
> Navy commandos reached the base three minutes after armed assault, he added. He said that Lieutenant Yasir led the retaliatory operation and was martyred in the process.
> 
> After the first assault, the terrorists were completely restrained from carrying out more attack, he added.
> 
> To a question, Admiral Nauman Bashir said that terrorists escaped through the same route from which they entered the Naval facility. I remained in constant touch with President, Prime Minister and other top security personnel, he informed.
> 
> He expressed the confidence that the investigation would uncover the militants involved in the assault.





> P-3C Orion plane was a target: sources
> http://old.thenews.com.pk/updates_pics/5-23-2011_15945_l.jpg
> KARACHI: Militants specifically targeted 'P-3C Orion plane' in PNS Mehran near PAF Faisal base located along Sharea Faisal, sources said.
> 
> Emergency declared in all hospitals in Karachi following these multiple blasts.


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## Hammy007

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> The TTP wants the world to believe that they are some sort of unified group with a central command and control that plots all this.
> 
> The reality is that, like AQ, they function as a loose amalgamation of various gangs, Taliban factions and other extremist organizations across Pakistan and Afghanistan. These various groups may or may not cooperate in recruitment, training, attacks etc. They largely have independent leadership, with some loose acknowledgement of a 'central leader'.
> 
> The TTP may or may not have known that this attack was being planned, and may or may not have provided some level of support for the attack in the form of material, training, men, funds etc.
> 
> Could be an AQ organized and led attack, with TTP taking credit since AQ does not have a major presence in the public sphere in Pakistan - AQ is basically using TTP (and some other organizations) to advance its agenda in Pakistan.


 
look agno the biggest question is if taliban revenged the osama killings, why they didnt kill people esp army guys and attacked a multi million dollar plane if it was taliban and alquaeda, second who provided advanced weapons and training to them??


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## VCheng

Jana said:


> Well everyone has a role to play either you are sitting abroad or here. those sitting abroad can help in correcting misconception about our country that will be greater help and support than what we can do here in Pakistan



Yes, but it takes me months and years to build up trust and understanding and communication, and one horrific event after event in Pakistan lands me back to square one! 

No, in fact, even worse.

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## T-Faz

Jana said:


> can post against you now ?
> 
> one of your mods has some issues


 


Fight like a cornered tiger.


----------



## Spring Onion

VCheng said:


> Yes, but it takes me months and years to build up trust and understanding and communication, and one horrific event after event in Pakistan lands me back to square one!
> 
> No, in fact, even worse.


 
then be sure they are not thinking rationally. if they are ready to ruin that communication of years with an individual then it means they have only one coloured glasses


----------



## Musafar

Just watched a very embarrasing piece on this whole episode on UK news.


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## Evil Flare

mirage 5000 said:


> just one question what Pakistani nation has to do after this attack?


 
We should order the evacuation of N Waziristan ( 2 week time ) .. all peoples leaving from there shall be checked & then Carpet Bomb the whole area ...


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## Spring Onion

T-Faz said:


> Fight like a cornered tiger.


 
 am a female the cornered one is always a male


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## VCheng

Jana said:


> then be sure they are not thinking rationally. if they are ready to ruin that communication of years with an individual then it means they have only one coloured glasses



JanaJee, it is not as simple as that. Even if the other party biased, it is to our advantage to keep making the effort to at least make them appreciate our point of view, and one simply cannot walk away from engagement. It has to be a continuous process, but the deluge of bad news makes it very very hard.


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## Spring Onion

VCheng said:


> JanaJee, it is not as simple as that. Even if the other party biased, it is to our advantage to keep making the effort to at least make them appreciate our point of view, and one simply cannot walk away from engagement. It has to be a continuous process, but the deluge of bad news makes it very very hard.


 
yara main nay wahi tau kaha ha keep making efforts and send me some sunnyplast

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## VCheng

Jana said:


> yara main nay wahi tau kaha ha keep making efforts and send me some sunnyplast



LOL! Jee Janab, will do!


----------



## Dance

Has the the PM or president made any statements regarding this attack or have they just condemned it?


----------



## azfar

Admiral Nauman Bashir "this is not a security lapse"

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## Hammy007

Musafar said:


> Just watched a very embarrasing piece on this whole episode on UK news.


 
predictable..............


----------



## AAtish

VCheng said:


> Yes, but it takes me months and years to build up trust and understanding and communication, and one horrific event after event in Pakistan lands me back to square one!
> 
> No, in fact, even worse.


 
Don't give up mate, i face it every day, i'm a lecturer and have to face hundreds of students every week, and believe me, every one asks, all i need to do is start from pre-Soviet war and then come to recent events, the reasons for it, the pre-1998 Pakistan and then post-1998, and they all understand.

Not only students, even other of my acquaintences including many Britishers ultimately understands, all you need to do is let them know the ground facts.. You know, most of them don't even know that we have big cities in Pakistan except Islamabad, Lahore and Karachi, and Peshawar cuz all they see is mountainous area where "supposedly" Taliban or "terrorists" are hidden..

Anyways, its OUR country and we have to keep working for it.. no matter how long it takes.. at least i would NEVER give up..

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## Spring Onion

Dance said:


> Has the the PM or president made any statements regarding this attack or have they just condemned it?


 
aik haklata ha aur dosray ki teri naak mujhye bilkul pasand nai so dafa karo what they are going to say except the redundant phrase "quomi salamti pe hamla bardashat nai kiaye jay ga"


my foot


----------



## VelocuR

Dance said:


> Has the the PM or president made any statements regarding this attack or have they just condemned it?


 


> President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Gilani strongly condemned the terrorist attack. Mr Gilani said such &#8220;cowardly acts of terror could not deter the commitment of the government and people of Pakistan to fight terrorism&#8221;.



"Cowardly acts of terrors"

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

safriz said:


> Such a high value "evidence" is not being dealt with navy themselves and not being sent to Karsaaz or PNS shifaa for forensic analysis?
> 
> Explain this.... i am baffled...


 
Why would the Navy or Army have a 'forensic analysis' team or institute?

Its not their job to conduct forensic investigations, it is the job of the civilian institutions. IIRC, a lot of US funding has supposedly gone into setting up a state of the art forensic institute in Pakistan (on the civilian side) and related training of personnel.


----------



## Dance

Jana said:


> aik haklata ha aur dosray ka teri naak mujhye bilkul pasand nai so dafa karo what they are going to say except the redundant phrase "quomi salamti pe hamla bardashat nai kiaye jay ga"
> 
> 
> my foot



True. My bad in thinking that they would start acting like a responsible government who cares for Pakistan


----------



## AAtish

Jana said:


> *aik haklata ha aur dosray ka teri naak *mujhye bilkul pasand nai so dafa karo what they are going to say except the redundant phrase "quomi salamti pe hamla bardashat nai kiaye jay ga"
> 
> 
> my foot


 
LOL.. quote of the day


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## Dance

Geo is saying 8 helicopters were flying from muzaffarabad towards Islamabad and it seems like search operation


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## mirage 5000

Aamir Zia said:


> We should order the evacuation of N Waziristan ( 2 week time ) .. all peoples leaving from there shall be checked & then Carpet Bomb the whole area ...


 
i am agree if we nuke fata even but please for god sake Pakistani forces now stop these attacks we as a nation cant see more .please mercy on us . my heart is bleeding my ayes are full of tears since last day i cant go my work .

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## Spring Onion

Dance said:


> Geo is saying 8 helicopters were flying from muzaffarabad towards Islamabad and it seems like search operation


 
 search operation in Islamabad? and why they need to fly helis from Muzafarabad? they have at Dhamyal base


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## sohail.ishaque

We know that these are terrorists,.. but they are being played in the hands of some other peoples.. Pakistan need to take care of TTK(the paid workers), CIA agents(The management team), and some Pakistani politicans who are just worried about their own political duknadari....


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## VelocuR

A successful terrorists on Navy Attack, Media paid attention on Pakistan.


----------



## T-Faz

mirage 5000 said:


> she males are sleeping with customers


 
Huuh, what kind of weird stuff are you into?

Tauba.


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## lkozhi

terrorists escaped through the same route from which they entered the Naval facility


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## mirage 5000

Dance said:


> Geo is saying 8 helicopters were flying from muzaffarabad towards Islamabad and it seems like search operation


 
last time when i see 8 holes fly rafiq taror resign same day . i still remember that day as today


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## Donatello

They weren't worth 40 million but way more......because PN if buys more now, since some of them already on order in US, it will cost Pakistani tax payers 300 million or more. F*** Admiral. By god if i was in his place, i would take my naval gun and shoot myself.

Shameless bastards.

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## Dance

Jana said:


> search operation in Islamabad? and why they need to fly helis from Muzafarabad? they have at Dhamyal base


I have no idea...I just read it on geo. People are reporting they saw helicopters flying pretty low over Islamabad


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## pakdefender

Dance said:


> Geo is saying 8 helicopters were flying from muzaffarabad towards Islamabad and it seems like search operation



TTP has claimed responsibility of this attack, they were behind the GHQ attack, they were behind the parade lane mosque attack, and they were also behind the murder of FC cadets.

TTP and its support network in all forms have to be eliminated at all costs and if that means country wide searches and arrests (extra judicial killings even) then we should put all our resources into doing the needful.

We know where TTP is operating from, their nerve centre is waziristan so obviously we have to hit the nerve centre however these rats have a support network in the country and that needs to be targeted also.

It&#8217;s all very obvious so why are we fooling ourselves.

americans , indians and others enemies will use these forces against us since that&#8217;s what enemies do!

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## Hammy007

mirage 5000 said:


> last time when i see 8 holes fly rafiq taror resign same day . i still remember that day as today


 
8 holes


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## pakdefender

They claim in the open after any terrorist attack that they were behind it so why we are not able to see the obvious, we have to carpet bomb that place, no ifs and buts


----------



## Stumper

Dance said:


> Well we know the government of Pakistan is useless and that they could decrease suicide attacks or even stop them of they made an effort. But why don't the people of Pakistan come out and say/do something? People could organize mass protests to have the government resign or hold early elections, but the problem is that when the people of Pakistan don't care enough to stand up and fight for their country then nothing will ever change in Pakistan. People in Pakistan are only willing to go on talkshows or post their frustrations online but not actually wiling to do anything productive


Good point ..... Can i answer you?

People, that common men, wont come out on Street. Does he have any incentive to do so? 

As it stands today, he is more bothered about his livelihood, about the power cuts, the worry of reaching home safely at the end of day. BE gratefull that people have the courage to atleast go on talk show and Speak. They atleast care enough to protest online. The extremists have made it difficult for the commoners to attend such rallies without fear of getting blown by a suicide bomb.

So should we say , a average pakistani does not care any more ... Has he grown indifferent? .. or is it that he actually agrees with the ideologies of this extremists? .... We dont know. What we do know, is his capability to continue to bear the hardships while the elite and rulers continue to plunder the nation, year after year. No questions asked. No revolt on the street.

Your education has trained them to call this Government officials as Hukmuran -- Rulers, instead of Elected Representatives. YOur Education has trained them to accept things -- "Sab Chalta Hai". Dont challenge things -- "Kya fark padta hai" (Yes, its almost the same grouse i have with my country). So, why and how , will this crowd of middle class people bring about a change ? .... Are they even capable of even doing this critical thinking?



I have long held view, for Pakistan to grow, it has to make this Fundamental changes in its Education System. Easily said then done, but i see no way you can win this battle against intolerance/extremism using guns. This bombings, guns, might give your sparodic wins -- But unless you induce that love for life, tolerance in your masses -- You are just fighting a loosing battle.

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## AAtish

8 Cobra Helis were on a training mission to train new pilots on how to take action in Night and hit the targets if required.. they flew from Rawalpindi to Muzzaffarabad and came back.. (Duniya news, right now)


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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

*300 deleted posts later ....

Stick to the topic please - this is not about Kashmir, China bases, Wakhan corridor or genocide of the people of FATA.*


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## pakdefender

these talibums dont have an airforce so we should make high altitude blimps and develop his resoultion cameras for these and permananetly station these over FATA airspace , in these blimps we should have a single high explosive 'dive bomb' that can be dropped if a target is spotted if we flood FATA airspace with 10,000 of these armed blimps , not a single taliturd will be able escape.


----------



## AAtish

AgNoStIc MuSliM said:


> *300 deleted posts later ....
> 
> Stick to the topic please - this is not about Kashmir, China bases, Wakhan corridor or genocide of the people of FATA.*


 
Difficult! isn't it mate?..  Well done to all the Moderators, Kudos for you hard work (appreciation well deserved)..


----------



## RAZA SAHI

did you listen the PN cheifs news conference . he was saying that.he instructed SSG to capture the terrorists alive and thats why it took them so long.


in one of my earliest posts when the operation had just started, I had said that it's been an intelligence failure and a security failure so far. I hope it's not an operational failure.
I had expected the SSG's to capture at least one of them, so the authorities could extract any valuable information from them, which could lead to the planning of this operation. 
I can swallow the fact that none of the attackers could be caught alive, but to hear that 2 of them ran away, 2 of them blew themselvs up and 10 of the troops involved in the clear out operation lost their lives makes me sick .


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## AAtish

RAZA SAHI said:


> did you listen the PN cheifs news conference . he was saying that.he instructed SSG to capture the terrorists alive and thats why it took them so long.
> 
> 
> in one of my earliest posts when the operation had just started, I had said that it's been an intelligence failure and a security failure so far. I hope it's not an operational failure.
> I had expected the SSG's to capture at least one of them, so the authorities could extract any valuable information from them, which could lead to the planning of this operation.
> I can swallow the fact that none of the attackers could be caught alive, but to hear that 2 of them ran away, 2 of them blew themselvs up and 10 of the troops involved in the clear out operation lost their lives makes me sick .


 
I can't, for the life of it, believe that they didn't captured anyone alive.. Its just not possible, if they had to kill them they could have done it in couple of hours.. btw, even if they caught few alive, do you think they are gonna accept it openly to make their job difficult? they are going to investigate them thoroughly and then take action accordingly..

Just my two cents..


----------



## Omar1984

Rehman Mailk said that Taliban are behind this attack. What makes no sense is why Taliban would be so determined to get rid of these Orion P3 aircrafcts that is used as an anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft.

Does Taliban have a submarine? NO
Does Taliban have an aircraft? NO

Indian military would be the most beneficial, if Pakistani navy lost its anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft.


----------



## Burger Boy

It's very unfortunate that this event occurred 
but I can't help but wonder if the POF Eye was used in the operation to get the hostages back. This event would've been the perfect time to use it.


----------



## Porus

AAtish said:


> I can't, for the life of it, believe that they didn't captured anyone alive.. Its just not possible, if they had to kill them they could have done it in couple of hours.. btw, even if they caught few alive, do you think they are gonna accept it openly to make their job difficult? they are going to investigate them thoroughly and then take action accordingly..
> 
> Just my two cents..



hehe...a truth that is difficult to digest. The inocmpetent armed forces have been unable to capture a single "kasab" alive, four have been killed and two run away when right in the middle of this operation the generals took a break to play a 9-hole in the nearest Golf course. Now keep weaving your usual conspiracy theories.


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## AAtish

Omar1984 said:


> Rehman Mailk said that Taliban are behind this attack. What makes no sense is why Taliban would be so determined to get rid of these Orion P3 aircrafcts that is used as an anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft.
> 
> Does Taliban have a submarine? NO
> Does Taliban have an aircraft? NO
> 
> Indian military would be the most beneficial, if Pakistany navy lost its anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircraft.


 
Thats the most probable scenario.. that also clarifies why "no terrorist was captured alive".. they are going to be investigated and then used at a useful time..


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## pakdefender

pakdefender said:


> these talibums dont have an airforce so we should make high altitude blimps and develop his resoultion cameras for these and permananetly station these over FATA airspace , in these blimps we should have a single high explosive 'dive bomb' that can be dropped if a target is spotted if we flood FATA airspace with 10,000 of these armed blimps , not a single taliturd will be able escape.



To add further:

The US military is already using surveillance blimps in Afghanistan, I sure we can put together a low cost surveillance + dive bomb combination

here is the US surveillance blimp

U.S. Military Adds Surveillance Blimps to War on Terror Arsenal | The Blaze

http://www.ravenaerostar.com/aerostat.htm


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## Conqueror

Few heads must role and one of them should be that of Prime Minister and other that of Khabees Interior Minister Malik!

When it was OBL - Nation was given "Teeka" that he was terrorist who America came and killed plus we have soft agreements with America thus sovernity is not "that much" violated. 

What the holy $hit this time.. ? Navel Chief MUST Resign! Nation deserves to have better and more compitent people on the most important chairs. 

Mr. Noman Bashir.. please spare this nation and Resign!


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## RAZA SAHI

We should order the evacuation of N Waziristan ( 2 week time ) .. all peoples leaving from there shall be checked & then Carpet Bomb the whole area ...
Original Post By Aamir Zia

ooh great, what a lovely idea. I think after finishing with N WAZIRISTAN, we should do the same with S WAZIRISTAN, and then the whole FATA, then the whole of KHYBER PUKHTOONKHAWA, then what, perhaps the SOUTH PUNJAB, then the rest of PUNJAB, then we should head towards BALOUCHISTAN, then we should take care of the troubles in KARACHI with the same method applied, then just to make sure there ar'nt any terrorist left in the NORTHERN AREAS & KASHMIR we should go ahead with this very successful & highly effective method then, once we have achieved this great achievment just to make sure that there still ar'nt any left we should go ahead with it, and nuke the SINDH aswell.
but plz make sure that YOU get out of the place called PAKISTAN, becoz HUMANITY NEEDS A GENIOUS LIKE YOU.
I HOPE YOU WILL REALISE THAT THIS IS NOT A FANBOY FORUM.
THANK YOU,


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## RAZA SAHI

I can't, for the life of it, believe that they didn't captured anyone alive.. Its just not possible, if they had to kill them they could have done it in couple of hours.. btw, even if they caught few alive, do you think they are gonna accept it openly to make their job difficult? they are going to investigate them thoroughly and then take action accordingly..

Just my two cents..


PERHAPS, may be .
but I don't see it that way. why would the army let go off of such a HUGE PR OPPERTUNITY. I can;t buy this.


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## Safriz

daily Dawn says 20 terrorists attacked the base. The Nation website says atleast 4 of the terrorists were taken into custody. ?????


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## Abingdonboy

Is it just me or does it stink of an inside job the way these SCUM were able to sneak into the base then some sneak off and NONE are captured DESPITE security forces DIRECTLY being told to capture some alive and thus why the op took so long which possibly cost more lives.


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## Porus

AAtish said:


> If we need "kasab" we'll have it weather it is "caught" or not.. besides, as i said before, even if they caught someone, they are not going to display it to the world for obvious reasons, thats military you are talking about, not PPP government who has RM as one of its Minister..



Ok, just for the sake of argument I accept that one or two terrorists might have been captured alive by the armed forces but because of some unknown reasons (I don't know what obvious reasons you have in your mind) they are hiding their glorious achievement. What would they do if the captured terrorists accept that RAW trained them and sent them over to create this havoc right in the middle of Karachi and they also manage to gather some vital evidences from the terrorist that are enough to prove the rest of the world the involvement of RAW in this terrorism? 

Now tell me why would they deny it if they have captured few terrorists alive?


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## Spring Onion

Dance said:


> I have no idea...I just read it on geo. People are reporting they saw helicopters flying pretty low over Islamabad


 
Ok got it . it was night time exercise  they went to Muzaffarabad take part in the exercise and came back within stipulated time


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## Spring Onion

Porus said:


> I know the lovers of army and jihadis hate Najam Sethi but everybody else should watch his today's progrmm, "aapad ki baat".


 
A nawaz sharif sympathizer who is alleged to have soft corner for militants so thank you we dont wana listen to him


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## pakdefender

If anyone was caught alive it seems they will not disclose it ,

if none was caught alive then they still have the four dead bodies so they can try to get some info like finger prints , DNA , facial recognition etc , they should check them for circumcision also , this might seem funny but it can tell something about background.


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## Patriot

Porus said:


> Ok, just for the sake of argument I accept that one or two terrorists might have been captured alive by the armed forces but because of some unknown reasons (I don't know what obvious reasons you have in your mind) they are hiding their glorious achievement. What would they do if the captured terrorists accept that RAW trained them and sent them over to create this havoc right in the middle of Karachi and they also manage to gather some vital evidences from the terrorist that are enough to prove the rest of the world the involvement of RAW in this terrorism?
> 
> Now tell me why would they deny it if they have captured few terrorists alive?


 They may have done that to avoid all the legal issues and conduct the interrogation with free hand if you know what i mean.By the way why are you acting like a self styled a$$hole.Your posts show arrogance and you seem to think everyone is inferior except you and Najam Sethi.Would you be kind enough to tell us why do you have such a huge stick up your @rse?

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## Musafar

Pakistan has dug a big hole for itself, what kind of moron sells itself at the expense of it's own indigenous people? 

History has shown that all those states ( like Iraq under Saddam) that did the dirty work for u.s will eventually be doubl-crossed.

All I can envisage is more brazen attacks and more embrassment.

We shot ourselves in the foot.


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## Last Hope

After Kayani, Pasha and Qamar showed how capable they are in managing their assignments, the Naval cheif did that too! Please leave us alone, you may be happy but your putting life of a whole NATION and its freedom on line! Please leave us alone


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## Last Hope

Anyways, I made this one for the memory of USD $6 cr+ asset:


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## pakdefender

Musafar said:


> Pakistan has dug a big hole for itself, what kind of moron sells itself at the expense of it's own indigenous people?
> 
> History has shown that all those states ( like Iraq under Saddam) that did the dirty work for u.s will eventually be doubl-crossed.
> 
> All I can envisage is more brazen attacks and more embrassment.
> 
> We shot ourselves in the foot.


 
Pakistan did what it had to do to safeguard itself but there are some haramis who never cared about Pakistan's well being rather these selfish bastards were concerned about their own little 'daidh eent ki alag masjid' and these haramkhors are primarily responsible for the situation that has arisen.

But as Muslims we believe that what God does is for the best , if this has exposed our weakness and exposed treacherous rats within us then this has been a real eye opener and wake up call for those who want to take forward the dream of Iqbal and the struggle of Jinnah

Pakistan will Insha Allah come out victorious and on top of it enemies otherwise it'll be lights out time for a long long time to come!

These threat that there will more of this to come should be dealt with carpet bombing of that entire place where these plans are being hatched!

DEATH TO THE ENEMIES OF PAKISTN!

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## Omar1984

Does Pakistani navy have other anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircrafts similar to the P-3C Orion aircrafts?

Pakistan needs anti-submarine and maritime surveillance aircrafts.


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## AAtish

RAZA SAHI said:


> PERHAPS, may be .
> but I don't see it that way. why would the army let go off of such a HUGE PR OPPERTUNITY. I can;t buy this.


 
Its Army my friend, they care more about protection of country as compared to PR, and forget about these few talking here and there, the general public still supports PA, PAF and PN.. They know that its the corrupt government which is sackless..

Lets wait till the ball rolls a bit further..

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## Hulk



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## AAtish

Porus said:


> Ok, just for the sake of argument I accept that one or two terrorists might have been captured alive by the armed forces but because of some unknown reasons (I don't know what obvious reasons you have in your mind) they are hiding their glorious achievement. What would they do if the captured terrorists accept that RAW trained them and sent them over to create this havoc right in the middle of Karachi and they also manage to gather some vital evidences from the terrorist that are enough to prove the rest of the world the involvement of RAW in this terrorism?
> 
> Now tell me why would they deny it if they have captured few terrorists alive?


 
First of all, i never mentioned RAW, you brought it up yourself, so either you are an Indian or pro-Indian who just wants to clear RAW.. anyways, the glorious achievement is there, they took the terrorists out, they finished the operation in 16 hours, not like 4 days (considering you brought RAW in it)..

Secondly, i don't know if you were following the news, there were 18 consecutive firing incidents on site, that means at least 18 terrorists.. lets take 3/4 out of them, even then there were 14/15 terrorists, 2 ran away (official report by RM), 4 dead (official report by RM), what happened to rest of the 8/9?

Anyways, lets move on, if they have captured anyone, it would be helpful to excrete information from them, investigating them and taking care of any such further possible attack.. if they declare the captured, first of all your Government will "sell" them out, if not, there might be attacks to get them free..

If they declare the captured terrorists, our (madar pidar azad) media will try to find where they went and what is happening with them, it would be difficult to keep them hidden for investigation.. 

For obvious reasons, right?


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## RAZA SAHI

They may have done that to avoid all the legal issues and conduct the interrogation with free hand if you know what i mean.
@Patriot

do you really think that the security forces care about the legal issues when it comes to the terrorists. Even if they were nervy of the legal issues, the public sentiment would be such that any one objecting on the security services conduct would be considered a traitor. let me tell you the army is increasingly holding more & more terrorists under it's custody, and for that i don't blame the army. The jujjes in civil courts are more afraid of there
personal security & their family's security, which i think to an extent is a legitimate concern although not a moral one.


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## Hulk




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## Pfpilot

So wait, if we fought a war with India and they found their way to PNS Mehran, would that still be considered a mistake...their goal would be exactly the same and theyd be hard pressed to pull it off this efficiently.
There has to come a time when our military accepts our short comings and works on fixing them, instead of blaming everyone in sight. This is a massive failure and not a one time situation, our military has been found wanting on a number of occasions in the recent past.

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## pakdefender

RAZA SAHI said:


> They may have done that to avoid all the legal issues and conduct the interrogation with free hand if you know what i mean.
> @Patriot
> 
> do you really think that the security forces care about the legal issues when it comes to the terrorists. Even if they were nervy of the legal issues, the public sentiment would be such that any one objecting on the security services conduct would be considered a traitor. let me tell you the army is increasingly holding more & more terrorists under it's custody, and for that i don't blame the army. The jujjes in civil courts are more afraid of there
> personal security & their family's security, which i think to an extent is a legitimate concern although not a moral one.


 

Let me summarize something for people like you, have a look at these:

The following is Nek Muhammad, he can be called the first of the militants that started fighting the Pakistani state, journalists like Rahim Ullah Yousafzai wrote articles in praise for this man as a dare devil as an outlaw and what not, basically romanticized his armed struggle against Pakistan, so who was he and where was he from ? I think we know the answer






The following is Abdullah Mehsud [ fellow on the left ] , the one legged militant that the Americans captured in Afghanistan and taken to Guantanamo and later released. After his release he came to Pakistan and started attacks against Pakistan , the security forces finally caught up with him he blew himself up and that was his end , during his reign of terror there were many articles written ( by the usual journalist ) about how the one legged mehsud dodged the army and what not , so who was he and where did he come from , I think we know the answer






The following is Baitullah Mehsud [ fellow on the right ] , during his reign of terror attacks on Pakistan continued and beheading videos and what not were released , so who was he and where did he come from , I think we know the answer






The following is Mullah Fazluaah , he corrupted Swat and basically did baghawat against the state in the name of Shariah , twice the military had to fight to clear Swat from this animals gang , so who was he and where did he come from , I think we know the answer







The following is (Gahir)Muslim Khan , he was mullah fazluaalh chief henchman and among other things there was a voice intercept in which he is doing some bakwas about killing the children of military officers , so who was he and where did he come from , I think we know the answer






And finally who are these two rats:






Yeh koun log haain ? Do we recognize them ? Do we know where all these people are from ? Is not the pattern of their violent acts clear by now ?

Besides the above there are many others whose names would just fill up the entire page

Bhai yeh tu woh log hain ju Public kay samany hain the military has cpatured a lot many more and by now we KNOW who these people are where they are some from! 

We are lying to ourselves for God knows what reason

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## Hulk

Well people are over critical of Navy. It is not possible to defend every attack neither it is possible to secure everything. Once you allow common man to have weapons you are playing with fire.
You trained LeT to attack military installation in India and they cross trained TTP.

Someone should ask why you need to keep a mad dog to attack others, that too for so long.


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## Machoman

If I m the president of pakistan right now I will order to throw nuke on these bastard taliban. Itna zada nuksaan kardiya. Paisa inka baap bharay ga? I gurantee you guys next target will be nuke facilities in pakistan. Just to show world that we are not capable of handling anything.


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## roadrunner

US and India. India is too impotent to do anything on its own. It always will be.


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## President Camacho

Machoman said:


> If I m the president of pakistan right now I will order to throw nuke on these bastard taliban. Itna zada nuksaan kardiya. Paisa inka baap bharay ga? I gurantee you guys next target will be nuke facilities in pakistan. *Just to show world that we are not capable of handling anything.*


 
Then don't let them show. Rather take it as an opportunity to show the world how well you can protect your nukes from any such attacks!


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## Safriz

Machoman said:


> If I m the president of pakistan right now I will order to throw nuke on these bastard taliban. Itna zada nuksaan kardiya. Paisa inka baap bharay ga? I gurantee you guys next target will be nuke facilities in pakistan. Just to show world that we are not capable of handling anything.


 
because nobody is yet sure if it were TTP or somebody else. ISPR hasnt said anything yet.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad

Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad - GEO.tv

Its seem like that Army is tiring to find some one. I think soon many snakes will be found and capture. Army is angry to revenge.


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## Safriz

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad
> 
> Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad - GEO.tv
> 
> Its seem like that Army is tiring to find some one. I think soon many snakes will be found and capture. Army is angry to revenge.


 
terrorists were arrested alive and info is being extracted. whatever the ignorant interior minister said.matters not.
the nation and dawn simultaneously reported 20 attackers and atleast 4 of them taken alive.
we will hear some different news pretty soon.


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## Dhruv V Singh

Dead terrorist look like Kashmiri to me.


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## TOPGUN

safriz said:


> terrorists were arrested alive and info is being extracted. whatever the ignorant interior minister said.matters not.
> the nation and dawn simultaneously reported 20 attackers and atleast 4 of them taken alive.
> we will hear some different news pretty soon.


 
How many have been captured alive?


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## Pak_Sher

Dhruv V Singh said:


> Dead terrorist look like Kashmiri to me.


 
Look's like Rahul Gandhi to me?

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## Pak_Sher

I think it is time to squash the snake's head in NWA. That is where these thugs are based.


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## MilSpec

I condemn this attack on PAF base.. perpetrators should be bought to justice. Were there any terrorist killed or captured?


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## humanfirst

roadrunner said:


> US and India. India is too impotent to do anything on its own. It always will be.


 
Its funny it is mainly pashtuns like you who are eager to blame india and US.Is it because of the fear that there might be some pakistani pashtun behind this attack too?-just like 99% of other suicide attacks in pakistan..btw your pashtun brothers in ttp have already claimed it-so you are late.No wonder you think organising suicide attack is an act of potency..

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## Safriz

sandy_3126 said:


> I condemn this attack on PAF base.. perpetrators should be bought to justice. Were there any terrorist killed or captured?


 
looks like you commented without reading any part of this thread.


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## roadrunner

no no, ethnicity of attackers dont bother me. I was responding to someone's deleted post. 

I only place blame where there's evidence that it should go there.


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## Leader

Pak_Sher said:


> Look's like Rahul Gandhi to me?


 
nailed it...


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## desiman

roadrunner said:


> US and India. India is too impotent to do anything on its own. It always will be.


 
sorry keep your impotency to yourself, India makes its own decisions and sticks with it unlike Pakistan. We dont need to do anything to our enemies when they are already destroying themselves.

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## humanfirst

pakdefender said:


> Yeh koun log haain ? Do we recognize them ? Do we know where all these people are from ? Is not the pattern of their violent acts clear by now ?


 
They all,all those mehsuds and mullahs you mentioned,are pashtuns from nwfp.Not indians or americans.There lies the root of the problems.


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## roadrunner

desiman said:


> sorry keep your impotency to yourself, India makes its own decisions and sticks with it unlike Pakistan. We dont need to do anything to our enemies when they are already destroying themselves.


 
India doesnt make its own decisions. All we ever hear is India says xyz and noone believes them. Then USA says xyz because India is regarded as irrelevant or illegitimate.

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## roadrunner

humanfirst said:


> They all,all those mehsuds and mullahs you mentioned,are pashtuns from nwfp.Not indians or americans.There lies the root of the problems.



The point he's making is how did they get access to a military facility. People don't usually walk into these places and get to fire rockets at million dollar hardware.


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## ares

roadrunner said:


> The point he's making is how did they get access to a military facility. People don't usually walk into these places and get to fire rockets at million dollar hardware.


 
You might want look deeper into your security forces deployed on the base for terrorist sympathizers..who might provided have detailed layout the facility..CCTV blind spots etc ..after all people from your own forces have been found to be involved in other terrorist attack in Pakistan previosly.


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## Dhruv V Singh

What I don't understand is, why is everyone speculating that these terrorists weren't Pakistani cause they had pale skin and sharp features. I thought pale skins and chiseled jaw bones is what Pakistanis were all about?


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## ramu

roadrunner said:


> India doesnt make its own decisions. All we ever* hear *is India says xyz and noone believes them. Then USA says xyz because India is regarded as irrelevant or illegitimate.


 
start hearing from better and more neutral sources.


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## macnurv

*PNS Mehran attack: Police kept out*

As soon as news of an attack at the naval base spread, a posse of civilian law-enforcement agencies, including the police, Crime Investigation Department, Special Investigation Unit, Special Protection Group, Anti-Extremism Cell, Counter-Terrorism Unit, reached the spot. But the navy personnel did not let them in.
This is not good, fumed Anti-Extremism Cell chief SSP Chaudhry Aslam Khan. What can we do now? They are not providing us access.
No need to stay here. We are going back.
Angry officers were turned away from the gates of the PAF Museum, PNS Mehran and PAF Faisal through which army trucks whizzed past.
Many officers just hung back, too cagey to risk being embarrassed by rejection.
Leave it, yaar, said a CID official. Yahan par kharey ho kar apni beizzati karwaien kya? He grabbed Aslams arm and steered him away too.
Later, some police officials also entered but according to reports all of them had to stay at the guardroom.
The vehicles of intelligence officials went through as did about three ambulances and fire engines. It seemed as if the entire citys ambulances had reached the spot but all of them were turned away.
Even Karachi polices Special Investigation Unit SSP Raja Umer Khattab, in his silver SUV, was denied entry. However, a convoy of the Rangers wing commander was immediately let in.
Sindh Police Crime Investigation Departments senior officials SSP Omer Shahid and SSP Chaudhry Aslam in their black SUV managed to reach just the parking lot of the museum, but returned when the Navy Marines began engaging the militants in a fierce gun battle. One or two journalists too sneaked in with the convoy of some of these police officers, but they, too, returned, in one case with bruises on their arms, minutes later. The convoys of Pakistan Army and Rangers, however, continued pouring into the base unhindered till early morning.
_Published in The Express Tribune, May 24th, 2011._
source


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## roadrunner

ares said:


> You might want look deeper into your security forces deployed on the base for terrorist sympathizers..who might provided have detailed layout the facility..CCTV blind spots etc ..after all people from your own forces have been found to be involved in other terrorist attack in Pakistan previosly.


 
noone knows. perhaps an investigation might point some fingers


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## Bang Galore

roadrunner said:


> India doesnt make its own decisions. All we ever hear is India says xyz and noone believes them. Then USA says xyz because India is regarded as irrelevant or illegitimate.


 
Err...okay! However you guys are the ones saying _abc_ when the rest of the world joins India in saying _xyz_ and you are arguing that India is the one which is irrelevant??


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## roadrunner

the whole world doesnt say xyz. it's just you think the whole world is India and some media outlets.


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## MumbaiIndians

roadrunner said:


> India doesnt make its own decisions. All we ever hear is India says xyz and noone believes them. Then USA says xyz because India is regarded as irrelevant or illegitimate.


 
Obama's speechwriter copies a lot of his stuff from Mahatma Gandhi's books.


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## Geronimo2011

Pak_Sher said:


> Look's like Rahul Gandhi to me?


 
Actually looks like a younger avatar of Mr Jinnah.. No?


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## Safriz

Geronimo2011 said:


> Actually looks like a younger avatar of Mr Jinnah.. No?


 
er. . . . . no.


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## Safriz

a very detailed tbread abkut the incident exists. why create new threads?


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## MumbaiIndians

USA and Europe are just trying to keep alive their dying influence in the region -

1. If USA and NATO wants, it can finish off this Taliban business very quickly. But they won't.
2. Pakistan is not allowing US investments into its economy the way americans want it. This will allow USA to take control of Pakistan in more comprehensive way. This is a major contention between US and Pakistan, OBL is only a smaller drama and irrelevant here.
3. USA wants to cut off Pakistan from India and sabotage SAARC economic block. SAARC currency will single handedly over-shadow Euro as single biggest currency block in just 10 years, if you look at market size of SAARC.
4. Keeping TTP alive helps in accomplishing 2 and 3.
5. After the Civilian Govt. (zardari) came to power, 2 and 3 are becoming more difficult because Civilian politicos of Pakistan are in favour of good economic relations with India.
6. The recent OBL episode took place due to event 5. Otherwise, there was no hurry to do 5. OBL episode is convincing me that, USA will attempt something more desperate in coming months to take control in the region.

Now, some obervations:

1. Let it be clear, that an unstable Pakistan in hands of Jihadis is bad for India and China both. But it fully achieves USA+British European agendas for region. 
2. There might be some temptations in China to let this unstable situation carry on for few more years or a decade, to slow down regional growth. It will help China push up its own profile in Asia. 
3. China has no stakes in SAARC or rupee block. In fact, it will only hurt China(renmibi) as competitor. Same is true with Dollar and Euro. Noone likes a new competitor.
4. Saudis have no role in this region and never had in history. Those who think they have, are fooling themself and only helping outside agendas. Saudis have sold out their own state to west, why they will fight for you? The recent attack on Saudi diplomat was showing this frustration of a segment in Pakistan who believed in that idea. Its a wake up sign.

Points 3,3 above are very important. That's the reason China, USA and Europe all have common objective here. They will keep region boiling forever and break it if possible.

*I think the end-game here is, India and Pakistan should join hands to finish off this western funded terrorism mess(started with Saudi+USA funded Jehad war on Soviets) and form an economic union. Lets bring peace and prosperity for our brothers. Its time to complete what was left in 1947.*

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## Zarvan

Man this is shameful man why were the post along with the wall empty and second thing is how many PC 3 Orions did we have and I just read the news that Pakistan is going to ask for two PC 3 Orions


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## Pak_Sher

ramu said:


> start hearing from better and more neutral sources.


 
Rahul Gandhi: Wasn't you dad killed by an xtremist hindu suicide bomber?


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## daanish

No body noticed (sorry if someone did ... but i didn't read all the pages)...that the attack came just after Prime Minister asked China build a naval base at gawadar.... I think this was the trailer for china that if they build base in pakistan, there would be attacks on it as well !!!


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## HAIDER

Interesting part of stupid Admiral of Pak navy...while during his press conference he keeps on repeating how well trained terrorist were....an angry reporter stood up and ask when you going to send your soldier to terrorist to get better training ....
This Admiral need to be fired right away...not accepting his responsibility.
According to report 1100 registered guard suppose to be on duty on PNS Mehran. When attack start only Navel guard and LT Yasir were their to stop the attack...................what a shame, literally no security.


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## MumbaiIndians

roadrunner said:


> the whole world doesnt say xyz. *it's just you think the whole world is India* and some media outlets.


 
Noone has claimed that here. It seems you are obsessed with India.


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## Pak_Sher

Why are we fighting them in Lahore, Rawalpindi, Peshawar and Karachi, lets take the fight to them, evacuate the NWA,SWA one final time, let women, elderly and children out and the level the place. Its time to clean the swamp. If we still need to keep some snakes, lets remove their venom for now and put them in cages.

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## Safriz

HAIDER said:


> Interesting part of stupid Admiral of Pak navy...while during his press conference he keeps on repeating how well trained terrorist were....an angry reporter stood up and ask when you going to send your soldier to terrorist to get better training ....
> This Admiral need to be fired right away...not accepting his responsibility.
> According to report 1100 registered guard suppose to be on duty on PNS Mehran. When attack start only Navel guard and LT Yasir were their to stop the attack...................what a shame, literally no security.


 
both mr admiral and lnterior minister made weird comments in their press conferences.


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## MumbaiIndians

HAIDER said:


> Interesting part of *stupid Admiral of Pak navy...while during his press conference he keeps on repeating how well trained terrorist were....an angry reporter stood up and ask when you going to send your soldier to terrorist to get better training .*...
> This Admiral need to be fired right away...not accepting his responsibility.
> According to report 1100 registered guard suppose to be on duty on PNS Mehran. When attack start only Navel guard and LT Yasir were their to stop the attack...................what a shame, literally no security.



Typical american pakistani always critical about his native country. Indian americans are same, cynical and critical of everything in their native country.

*There is nothing wrong in what Pak-Navy Admiral said.* He just said that terrorists were well trained. What he seems to suggest is, probably terrorists have attended some official armed course/training and are not random goons who lack such sophisticated training. The stupid reporter obviously hasn't taken basic training in journalism and missed his point. Or, maybe that reporter came there to watch some movie type response with lot of unrealistic blabbering and tall claims like american army spokesman do.

Indian media is same. Full of idiots.


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## Stealth

*Shame!!

Admirl Nouman Bashir said in press

"Terrorist are very well trained and very well equiped" Damn someone asking him idiot when u will send Pakistan Navy commando - to - terrorist because terrorist will train our soldiers as well because by your logic they are well trained ???" slap by journalist yesturday to Nauman Bashir!

What a full bunch of Idiots sitting in Army Navy aur Airforce .... 

No resignation no court marshal nothing in GHQ attack (Army)
No resignation no court marshal nothing in OBL Raid (Airforce)
No resignation no court marshal nothing in PNS Mehran Base attach (Navy)

and more thn 150 other attacks on ISI, FIA and other security locations...


MILITARY Bohat sar pe char gaye hey in ke *** inko batana parayge kay tum ghar kay rakwalay ho THATS IT NOTHING ELSE MORE!*

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## MumbaiIndians

Stealth said:


> *Shame!!
> 
> Admirl Nouman Bashir said in press
> 
> "Terrorist are very well trained and very well equiped" Damn someone asking him idiot when u will send Pakistan Navy commando - to - terrorist because terrorist will train our soldiers as well because by your logic they are well trained ???" slap by journalist yesturday to Nauman Bashir!
> 
> What a full bunch of Idiots sitting in Army Navy aur Airforce ....
> 
> No resignation no court marshal nothing in GHQ attack (Army)
> No resignation no court marshal nothing in OBL Raid (Airforce)
> No resignation no court marshal nothing in PNS Mehran Base attach (Navy)
> 
> and more thn 150 other attacks on ISI, FIA and other security locations...
> 
> 
> MILITARY Bohat sar pe char gaye hey in ke *** inko batana parayge kay tum ghar kay rakwalay ho THATS IT NOTHING ELSE MORE!*


 
So, what wrong Admiral said? Should he speak lies now to appease moron journalists?


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## Ganguly

roadrunner said:


> US and India. India is too impotent to do anything on its own. It always will be.


 
Few untrained, uneducated Talibans can royally screw your so called "protected" area. Imagine what would have happened if India or US wanted to indulge or support these terrorist activities within Pakistan. Please try to be practical and stop the blame game.


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## Kompromat

Some really good points.


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## roadrunner

Ganguly said:


> Few untrained, uneducated Talibans can royally screw your so called "protected" area.


 
with support?


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## Leader

daanish said:


> No body noticed (sorry if someone did ... but i didn't read all the pages)...that the attack came just after Prime Minister asked China build a naval base at gawadar.... I think this was the trailer for china that if they build base in pakistan, there would be attacks on it as well !!!


 
exactly, and look at the press release by america. its clearly a warning...


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## Stealth

MumbaiIndians said:


> So, what wrong Admiral said? Should he speak lies now to appease moron journalists?



He Must accept failure and give resignation rather thn giving b**** non sense statements" he is Pakistan Navy spokemen and Chief not Terrorist Chief!

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## Abu Basit

*PNS Mehran: Its A War On Pakistan, Why Military Leadership Is Quiet?*
*
Posted by Shireen M. Mazari on May 23rd, 2011*

For Pakistan, the writing on the wall is clear. We are in a two-front war: One directly with the US and the other an unconventional war where nonstate actors are being trained by powerful external powers to undermine the military and intelligence organizations from within for the final external assault. But our civil and military leadership seems oblivious to these increasingly overt signals.


*SHIREEN M. MAZARI | Monday | 23 May 2011 | EXCLUSIVE
PakNationalists.com | Home Of Pakistani Nationalists Online | A Meeting Point Of Pakistani Nationalists*

*ISLAMABAD, Pakistan*That Pakistan is facing a two-front war since 9/11 should have been apparent to at least the intelligence and military leadership. After all, the evidence was there from the moment General Musharraf surrendered the country to the Unites States.

There was the publication of the article by a retired US military intelligence officer Ralph Peters in the US Armed Forces Journal titled Blood Borders which envisaged the partitioning of Pakistan and Iran. There was the commencement of US demands to do more on the Pakistani state, especially its military, and there was the invasion of hordes of American private security contractors and special operativesmost without going through the proper visa clearance process, especially after the coming to power of the Zardari-Gilani combine courtesy the NRO brokered by the US and Pakistans military leadership.

Unfortunately, the Pakistani state, especially its military and intelligence leadership miscalculated gravely when they fell in the US trap of a military-centric approach to dealing with terrorism and extremism. The results have been disastrous for the Pakistani state and nation. The US effectively, under international law, declared war on Pakistans people with the drone attacks, and the military and intelligence set up neglected to calculate the costs of the US short-term lures of tactical weapons and a few downgraded F-16s. Apart from other fallouts, Pakistan suddenly found itself the victim of suicide bombings, internally displaced people and the Pakistani Taliban whose increasing funding and sophisticated arms should have raised alarm bells.

Additionally the economic costs have now also run into billions and we are today facing a war ravaged nation deeply polarized and totally unable to feel secure in their own territory despite a huge military and intelligence network.

The attack on Mehran Base in Karachi has made it clear that the policy of destroying Pakistans military and intelligence set up is being operationalised but the question for us Pakistanis is why our intelligence and military leadership is going along with this scheme of things  or at least why it is unable to develop a viable counter response to this policy.

Some of us had been pointing to the dangers of having US forces embedded within the Pakistan military far before the WikiLeaks made this public. That the May 2nd incident was a major security and intelligence lapse cannot be denied although the cover up has come in the form of the stealth technology pretext. But how can one explain the complete CIA covert set up in Abbottabad?

The incident certainly created a disconnect between the military leadership and the younger officers and soldiers and the lack of accountability of the former has done little to restore this equilibrium. As if to ensure that such an eventuality does not come to pass the attack on the Mehran base has taken place. To suggest that it was not a security and intelligence failure is to hide ones head in the sand. Yes, as usual our soldiers fought bravely and many were martyred but why should they have been exposed to this danger in the first place? It is time some responsibility was accepted and the leadership made accountable.

How long will we continue to place our soldiers and young officers in these lethal situations created by leadership lapses?

What is equally disturbing is to discover that four to six terrorists held the whole base hostage for over sixteen hours and at the end of the operation it was given out that two terrorists may have escaped while four were killed. In comparison eleven of our soldiers were martyred, including our commandos. The terrorists were trained and carrying sophisticated weapons including RPGs. Who has been training these people and where are the money and arms coming from? If they are the Pakistani Taliban, who is behind them? Why did the government not make public the weapons makes and origins?

A larger question is how the details of the base and the location of the targets reached the attackers? These terrorists were not targeting the base in a random fashion. They knew where to go to get to their target: the P-3C Orion surveillance planes especially suited for anti-submarine warfare.

Linked to this is the question of why target these planes? Who would benefit from their destruction? The non-state terrorist actors are supposed to be located within Pakistan and Afghanistan; but it is the US and India which could target Pakistan by sea  and both have been threatening to attack Pakistan post-May 2. The US has its bases in Oman and Bahrain while India has a vast blue water navy.

The question that arises then is whether this was a probe attack to check out our defenses?

Just as the May 2 incident exposed our faulty intelligence and military preparedness, this incident has done the same on yet another front. That a few well-trained terrorists can hold up a whole naval base despite inputs from the Rangers and the Army does not bode well for Pakistans military preparedness.

The writing on the wall is clear for Pakistan. It is in a two-front war: One directly with the US and the other an unconventional war where nonstate actors are being trained by powerful external powers to undermine the military and intelligence organizations from within for the final external assault. But our civil and military leadership seems oblivious to these increasingly overt signals. Or are they totally mesmerized by US lures?

Our nuclear assets are not under threat militarily for reasons I have already explained at length in an earlier write up. But a security and military environment is being created where a diplomatic and political campaign to take control of the nuclear assets can reach fruition. This is a well thought out strategy that the US has been operationalizing since 9/11 when it gained military and intelligence access into Pakistan and saw how easy it was to seduce the Pakistani military and subsequently the civilian leadership.

While not denying the extremist militancy and terrorism within Pakistan, we need to realize that the targeting of military installations and intelligence vulnerabilities is the handiwork of trained and well-armed operatives who of necessity have strong external backers. Of course we need to counter the extremist threat but to let this bogey blind us to the two-front war being waged against our very existence as a nation and state post-9/11would be to play right into the hands of our very real, very skilled and very powerful external enemies.

Unfortunately, that is what our civil and military leadership is falling prey to so far. In the process the critical cohesiveness and morale of our military and intelligence institutions, the strongest institutions in the country, is being threatened. It is time to arrest this leadership decay through accountability of those responsible. We have already lost over 35 000 Pakistani lives. How many more martyrs can we afford as a result of fatal leadership lapses?

Dr. Mazari is an adviser on defense policy to a political party and the former director of Islamabad Institute For Strategic Studies. She wrote this comment for PakNationalists.com Reach her at callstr[at]hotmail.com

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## MumbaiIndians

Leader said:


> exactly, and look at the press release by america. its clearly a warning...


 
Can you tell me what US and Chinese engineers were doing together on that base?


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## SEAL

Ganguly said:


> Few untrained, uneducated Talibans can royally screw your so called "protected" area. Imagine what would have happened if India or US wanted to indulge or support these terrorist activities within Pakistan. Please try to be practical and stop the blame game.


 
Untrained and uneducated people can't do such attack without external help you better save your logics if tomorrow something like this happen in India.

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## macnurv

This thread can be merged with the existing attack thread if the moderators feel like.


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## Leader

MumbaiIndians said:


> Can you tell me what US and Chinese engineers were doing together on that base?


 
maybe they were not engineers, maybe a high level meeting was going on to plan another bombay attacks ? didnt your media figure it out ?


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## MumbaiIndians

Stealth said:


> He Must accept failure and give resignation rather thn giving b**** non sense statements" he is Pakistan Navy spokemen and Chief not Terrorist Chief!


 
I think you are angry and just need someone to quash your anger on.

I find nothing wrong in what Pak-navy Admiral said. Even NSG chief said same thing about terrorists after 26/11. He is just telling about background of attackers. Nothing wrong in it.


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## macnurv

Dr. Mazari have hit the nail on its head. She is right to raise all those important questions, but unfortunately the Military Brass is not ready to acknowledge its mistake and incompetence rather chose to stay quite which is actually doing more harm then good.

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## Chinese-Dragon

MumbaiIndians said:


> Can you tell me what US and Chinese engineers were doing together on that base?


 
That isn't really any of India's business, don't you think?


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## Indian-Devil

Islamist militants have stormed one of Pakistan's largest military bases, attacking a US supplied surveillance aircraft, in a move that will cause further embarrassment for the country just weeks after the death of Osama bin Laden.

Four people including a Pakistani navy officer and a fire fighter were believed to have been killed after up to 15 militants entered the high-security Mehran naval station in the southern city of Karachi. The attack late on Sunday is believed to be the most serious attack against the military since October 2009.

According to navy spokesman Irfan ul Haq, the fighters split up into smaller groups to set off the explosions before hiding in the sprawling security facility.

A P-3C Orion, a maritime surveillance aircraft recently given to Pakistan by America, was destroyed, a second navy spokesman, Salman Ali, said.

One report said a team of US technicians were working on the aircraft at the time of the strike, but US Embassy spokesman Alberto Rodriguez said no Americans were on the base.

The attack began with at least three loud explosions heard by people who live around the base, according to one report. while the Associated Press reported there were at least six other explosions and sporadic firing.

Several dozen navy and police commandos sent in to battle the militants were met with gunfire and grenades from the militants, said Ali.

The coordinated strike rocked Pakistan's largest city just under three weeks after the death of terrorist leader Osama bin Laden in a US raid on the northwestern garrison city of Abbottabad. Extremists allied with al-Qaida have vowed to avenge his death.

The killing of bin Laden triggered a strong backlash in the country against Washington, trying to support Pakistan in its fight against militants, as well as rare domestic criticism against the armed forces for failing to detect or prevent the operation.

Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani condemned the attack, saying such a "cowardly act of terror could not deter the commitment of the government and people of Pakistan to fight terrorism."

Sunday's raid appeared to be most serious against the military since October 2009, when militants attacked the army headquarters near the capital, Islamabad.

The country's security forces, following heavy US prodding, have launched several operations against militants in their heartland close to the border with Afghanistan over the last three years. But extremists have struck back against police and army targets around Pakistan.

No group has claimed responsibility for the attack.

However the Pakistani Taliban, an al-Qaida allied network which has previously launched attacks in Karachi, has pledged to retaliate for the death bin Laden, and has claimed responsibility for several bloody attacks since then.

The US gave two Orions to the Pakistan navy at a ceremony at the base in June 2010 attended by 250 Pakistan and US officials, according to the US Central Command website.

It said by late 2012 the Pakistan would have eight of the planes


Pakistan military base attacked by Islamist militants | World news | guardian.co.uk


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## All-Green

mafiya said:


> Naval Chief was addressing a press conference here after all the terrorists were eliminated in retaliatory operation by Pakistans armed forces to regain complete control of PNS Mehran.
> 
> He said two destroyed aircrafts P-3C Orion were worth $40 million. Terrorists stormed PNS Mehran from Eastern corner and were well-trained sharpshooters.
> 
> After securing entry into naval base, two of them got onto a tower while as many remaining hid themselves behind bushes, he revealed adding, they subsequently fired six rockets.
> 
> *Nauman dismissed rumors of security breach. This attack could not be termed as security lapse, he stated.*
> 
> Navy commandos reached the base three minutes after armed assault, he added. He said that Lieutenant Yasir led the retaliatory operation and was martyred in the process.
> 
> After the first assault, the terrorists were not allowed to continue attack any further, he added.
> 
> *To a question, Admiral Nauman Bashir said that terrorists succeeded to flee the base after assault*.
> 
> Militants targeted Navy, not aircrafts: Naval Chief


 
I wonder what else is a security breach in the good admiral's dictionary?
Absolutely unacceptable that our High Command is still content with its head buried in the sand.

I guess they are reflecting the same mentality as of the people who are saying that suicide bombings cannot be done by "our people" since no Muslim can do this...for god's sake wake up and let us take on this rabid dog!
The failure to segregate between "our people" and "not our people" shall ofcourse have dire consequences for us as we are witnessing today.

We should investigate the tragedy as a security breach so that we get to the depth of the matter!

To say that it was not a security breach is quite a strange comment at this stage.
In all aspects it was a failure and a security breach!
The admiral should have instead promised that we shall hold a thorough investigation and if there is any evidence of treachery then the perpetrators and all supporters shall be severely dealt with as per military law.
Either way, Pakistan should take this opportunity to launch an operation against the groups responsible, whatever form of support they have provided in this attack on Pakistan...
And i mean "whatever form of support"...

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## Stealth

MumbaiIndians said:


> I think you are angry and just need someone to quash your anger on.
> 
> I find nothing wrong in what Pak-navy Admiral said. Even NSG chief said same thing about terrorists after 26/11. He is just telling about background of attackers. Nothing wrong in it.



I think u did not understand the meaning of attack on some hotel or attack on MILITARY BASE! and engage military IN military base more thn 14 hours!


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## Safriz

we are forgetting the human element of mr Admiral. He was visibly embarrased and one man one being grilled by a hoard of hostile journalists. No wonder his commrnts were incoberant and nln professional. 
I dont think he will be sitting on his back side doing nothing. All the security and intelligence must be in motion and they will comr up with something.


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## macnurv

MumbaiIndians said:


> I think you are angry and just need someone to quash your anger on.
> 
> I find nothing wrong in what Pak-navy Admiral said. Even NSG chief said same thing about terrorists after 26/11. He is just telling about background of attackers. Nothing wrong in it.


 
NO. The Admiral knew nothing what he was talking about. While I listened to that moron speak I felt as if he is cheif of Taliban Navy praising the ferocity and tenacity of his troopers. He failed to not only acknowledge his incompetence instead made those taliban terrorists look like ten feet men, further demoralizing the security forces. He just failed to see his own force failure and choose to blame terrorist training. The journalist was right to question him as to when he will sending his men for training there.
There is no doubt now he is incompetent of extreme proportions. If it would have been any other place then Pakistan his bum would have been on his way home already but thankfully we live in MoronISTAN.

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## Stealth

The Game is On!!!

No submarine conduct in NAVY since last many years
After Zardari Govt Cancelled 214 German subs Deal
Many Attacks on NAVY from past few months
26/11 Mumbai India and international media soo much blame on Pakistan NAvy even that was biggest failure fo so called blue water navy (India)
2 More very very important mari-time P3 Orion destroy

remember PAKISTAN NAVY is not power full Navy already!

TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT TERRORISM! *THIS IS WAR AGAINST PAKISTAN* THIS IS WAR!

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## MumbaiIndians

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That isn't really any of India's business, don't you think?


 
What would you say, if India started building an airbase in Taiwan? Think before you speak.


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## iPhone

Pak_Sher said:


> Why are we fighting them in Lahore, Rawalpindi, Peshawar and Karachi, lets take the fight to them, evacuate the NWA,SWA one final time, let women, elderly and children out and the level the place. Its time to clean the swamp. If we still need to keep some snakes, lets remove their venom for now and put them in cages.



Unfortunately bro, it seems the upper echelons of our military have become not only incompetent but gutless too. As brave and as fearless the young mid to low ranking officers are, their sacrifices are for all to see, jumping in the midst of a fire fight without questions asked. The top level have become so greedy and corrupt due to money. 

They don't have the will, the class, the character anymore. They don't know how fight a war let alone win one. Otherwise what ttp has done in these four years and openly owns up to their crime, we had a honest guy up there, ttp would be a distant memory by now and other people would shudder even think about forming a terrorist group.

These money grabing lot, you think any thing will happen after this incident, no man. They're scared. They've locked their doors from inside, eyes blindfolded and eard plugged. I just hope some mid-level guys decide the enough is enough attitude and throw these sorry lot of generals out from their golf cources and a/c rooms.

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## President Camacho

Chinese-Dragon said:


> That isn't really any of India's business, don't you think?


 
When more than half of the posts are alleging India's hand in this attack, then by default it becomes India's business.

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## MumbaiIndians

macnurv said:


> NO. The Admiral knew nothing what he was talking about. While I listened to that moron speak I felt as if he is cheif of Taliban Navy praising the ferocity and tenacity of his troopers. He failed to not only acknowledge his incompetence instead made those taliban terrorists look like ten feet men, further demoralizing the security forces. He just failed to see his own force failure and choose to blame terrorist training. The journalist was right to question him as to when he will sending his men for training there.
> There is no doubt now he is incompetent of extreme proportions. If it would have been any other place then Pakistan his bum would have been on his way home already but thankfully we live in MoronISTAN.



Nope. I find nothing wrong in what Pak-Navy admiral said. He is just doing his duty, i.e. briefing media about profile of attackers. There is nothing wrong with it. 

There is no point in shooting the messenger. The question of 'security breach' is different.


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## Chinese-Dragon

MumbaiIndians said:


> What would you say, if India started building an airbase in Taiwan? Think before you speak.


 
Taiwan does not consider itself an independent country. The Taiwanese government (KMT) follows the "One-China" policy.

India recognizes the One-China policy as well, as does pretty much every major country on Earth.

Pakistan on the other hand, is an independent country, it's internal affairs are its own business.


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## President Camacho

Stealth said:


> The Game is On!!!
> 
> No submarine conduct in NAVY since last many years
> After Zardari Govt Cancelled 214 German subs Deal
> Many Attacks on NAVY from past few months
> 26/11 Mumbai India and international media soo much blame on Pakistan NAvy even that was biggest failure fo so called blue water navy (India)
> 2 More very very important mari-time P3 Orion destroy
> 
> remember PAKISTAN NAVY is not power full Navy already!
> 
> TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT TERRORISM! *THIS IS WAR AGAINST PAKISTAN* THIS IS WAR!


 
When rest of the 7 P3C Orions come to Pakistan, they will more than serve all the air surveillance needs of Pakistani Navy.

In the meantime, India won't be so foolish as to start a war with Pakistan. Pakistan can always successfully drag the war to land where India does not enjoy as big a lead as it does in case of the Navies.


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## HAIDER

On top Imran Khan is doing his "dharna" another security breach and doing duwa of his favorite uncle OBL. Before i had some respect for this guy but he is literally stupid who never condemn taliban on attacking innocent civilian. You guys might notice after PNS Mehran attack he is totally out of screen, not on tv for the last two days....


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## Abu Basit

Stealth said:


> The Game is On!!!
> 
> No submarine conduct in NAVY since last many years
> After Zardari Govt Cancelled 214 German subs Deal
> Many Attacks on NAVY from past few months
> 26/11 Mumbai India and international media soo much blame on Pakistan NAvy even that was biggest failure fo so called blue water navy (India)
> 2 More very very important mari-time P3 Orion destroy
> 
> remember PAKISTAN NAVY is not power full Navy already!
> 
> TRY TO UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT TERRORISM! *THIS IS WAR AGAINST PAKISTAN* THIS IS WAR!


 
11% will not understand otherwise the whole Pakistani nation knows this.


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## Abu Basit

HAIDER said:


> On top Imran Khan is doing his "dharna" another security breach and doing duwa of his favorite uncle OBL. Before i had some respect for this guy but he is literally stupid who never condemn taliban on attacking innocent civilian. You guys might notice after PNS Mehran attack he is totally out of screen, not on tv for the last two days....


 
obviously someone with American flag will not like anyone raising voice against American terrorism in Pakistan.

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## Mav3rick

CENTCOM said:


> This is the latest in the long list of Taliban crimes against the sovereign nation of Pakistan. Did we not just witness the murder of over 90 Frontier Corps Cadets? Taliban have been wreaking havoc on the innocent people of Pakistan and Afghanistan for over a decade. Have we not witnessed them attacking people from all walks of life in their attempt to instill fear and destabilize the nation. Have we not witnessed them attack schools, shopping centers and even mosques and shrines? And now we see them attacking the largest naval base in Pakistan. How can these Taliban terrorists who keep attacking Pakistanis and Pakistani Assets ever be friends of this great nation? They are nothing but insurgents hell bent on destroying the peace loving nation of Pakistan.
> 
> Pakistanis who have any soft corners for these murderers should realize that they are the real enemy who will not stop until they achieve the goal of revenge against Pakistan; and for whom? A terrorist who killed more Muslims then non-Muslims and who was not even a Pakistani. We have said before and we say again that peace in the region can only be achieved when the Taliban & Al-Qaeda terrorists along with their leadership is destroyed. It is time for the Pakistanis who support these terrorists to realize that they are the true enemy and until they are destroyed these attacks will not stop! We have the resolve along with Pakistani forces to focus on and to destroy Taliban and Al-Qaeda enemy and make this world a better and more peaceful place for our future generations.
> 
> CDR Bill Speaks
> DET-United States Central Command
> U.S. Central Command


 
How I wish somebody could forward my msg to the speaker:

Sir, Pakistan is fully aware of who her enemies are, both domestic and foreign. Talibaan were never our enemies, neither are they our enemies today. If you understand the talibaan ideology you will know for a fact that they promote education of men and women alike which destroys your first pathetic lie that they blow up schools. Talibaan never blew any place of worship/hospital or shopping markets when they were in power in Afghanistan which exposes your other lies.

However, schools are being blown up, people slaughtered, women punished barbarically, targeted and random bombings of military installations, places of worship and busy markets killing innocents. But these are being carried out by mercenaries that are hired to pose as Talibaan and to blame every crime against humanity on Talibaan. TTP, mainly responsible for almost 90% of the bombings in Pakistan, are bred, trained, armed and provided intel by some of our closest enemies and some of our closest 'friends'. These TTP mercenaries, mostly illiterate young men/women who are swayed easily by lure of heaven or money for their family, are being used by external anti Pakistan elements. Even our agencies are well aware of it.

Why a full on confrontation is not forthcoming, even yet, is beyond me. The only thing that I can think is that the US$ to our top military and political hierarchy is more powerful then the pride and nation of Pakistan. This is why we desperately need the military to cleanse itself from within and then to cleanse the judiciary, bureaucracy, establishment and political system. We most desperately need a military and political establishment that thinks about Pakistan above everything else. We most desperately need to set out our alliances where our interests belong and to weed out the criminals that call themselves our allies and friends!


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## waraich66

Mav3rick said:


> How I wish somebody could forward my msg to the speaker:
> 
> Sir, Pakistan is fully aware of who her enemies are, both domestic and foreign. Talibaan were never our enemies, neither are they our enemies today. If you understand the talibaan ideology you will know for a fact that they promote education of men and women alike which destroys your first pathetic lie that they blow up schools. Talibaan never blew any place of worship/hospital or shopping markets when they were in power in Afghanistan which exposes your other lies.
> 
> However, schools are being blown up, people slaughtered, women punished barbarically, targeted and random bombings of military installations, places of worship and busy markets killing innocents. But these are being carried out by mercenaries that are hired to pose as Talibaan and to blame every crime against humanity on Talibaan. TTP, mainly responsible for almost 90% of the bombings in Pakistan, are bred, trained, armed and provided intel by some of our closest enemies and some of our closest 'friends'. These TTP mercenaries, mostly illiterate young men/women who are swayed easily by lure of heaven or money for their family, are being used by external anti Pakistan elements. Even our agencies are well aware of it.
> 
> Why a full on confrontation is not forthcoming, even yet, is beyond me. The only thing that I can think is that the US$ to our top military and political hierarchy is more powerful then the pride and nation of Pakistan. This is why we desperately need the military to cleanse itself from within and then to cleanse the judiciary, bureaucracy, establishment and political system. We most desperately need a military and political establishment that thinks about Pakistan above everything else. We most desperately need to set out our alliances where our interests belong and to weed out the criminals that call themselves our allies and friends!



How can Pakistan be protected from its enemy and friends of enemy?


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## Mav3rick

Muhammad Yahya said:


> How can Pakistan be protected from its enemy and friends of enemy?


 
Do you mean to tell me that the last paragraph of my post does not provide an answer to the question you raised?


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## sab

safriz said:


> something is fishy here...i heard the admiral live on news and he was saying that he prolonged the operation to catch them alive and that the terrorists were 12 or smething in number..Now they have changed and say they were only four and all killed..
> 
> Its not a time to joke but somehow i remember Gabbar singh..
> 
> "Kitnay aadmee thay"
> 
> "Sardaar chaar"
> 
> "Aur tumm kitnay thay"
> 
> "Sardaay poorey navy aur airforce"
> 
> "Phir bhee 16 ghantay lagaa diyey ..doo jahaaz jalwaa diyey aur 12 aadmee marwaa diyeey?"
> 
> Thats pethatic



I feel very sad reading your post. You just cant compare the casualty lists like this. The terrorists were armed for that particular operation and I believe these guys are trained enough to hold on best of the troops in world for several hours. The priority of the commandos were to save the rest of the air-crafts and they dared their lives for that. Only after securing the aircrafts they went for full offensive. Today's Bengali news paper in Kolkata says that the soldiers literally pushed away the aircrafts by hands under heavy firing from the terrorists. Plese dont say anything that insults their sacrifice.


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## waraich66

Mav3rick said:


> Do you mean to tell me that the last paragraph of my post does not provide an answer to the question you raised?



You have identified problem but not provided practical solution.You know ex military dictator involved Pakistan in WOT and present government is bound to obey the agreement signed by them.

What you expect from NRO Government or Present Military leadership ?

Peace in Pakistan can only be restored when NRO government sagged by mid term election or revolution like Egypt , Tunisia and true leadership took control of government .


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## Black Widow

According to BBC, there were 11 Chinese , 6 American were there during raid... 15 innocent died, all foreigners are safe.


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## blackcobran

Where is our ISI MI IB ARE the sleeping on american pillows ???What the hell is with these guyz they know usa & all other badboys are chasing PAKISTAN very badly but still THe bases are not save this makes a big question on our intelligence however its one of worlds most fastest intelligence frim.Wake up guyz R.A.W C.I.A MOSSAD BLACKWATER ARE CHASING US.THING WE NEED NOW very badly is the that"UNITY"


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## fatman17

*Was raid on Pakistani base an inside job?*

Assault in Karachi is one of several attacks in recent years linked to Islamists working within Pakistan's military

Declan Walsh guardian.co.uk, Monday 23 May 2011


The loss of two Orion P-3C aircraft, valued at $36m (£22.3m) each, is a deep blow to Pakistan's military. But the greater worry is how the Islamist fighters who destroyed them accessed the airfield in the first place.

Everything about the assault on Monday, from the methodical tactics to the targeting of sensitive aircraft suggests the attackers used inside information. "It looks like an inside job. That should be the biggest worry for the military &#8211; and for all of us," said security analyst Imtiaz Gul.

The spectre of Islamist infiltration has haunted the army for decades. After surviving an assassination bid in 2003 &#8211; one orchestrated by air force officers &#8211; General Pervez Musharraf purged the superior ranks of known Islamists.

Extremists are still sprinkled within the lower ranks, however, and have been suspected of involvement in several atrocities, such as the 2007 suicide attack on a commando base and the spectacular assault in 2009 on army headquarters in Rawalpindi. Air force officers were arrested for a separate plot against Musharraf in 2006. perpetrators of some attacks have fled to Waziristan, where they find shelter among jihadi groups that allegedly enjoy covert army support.

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## Safriz

sab said:


> I feel very sad reading your post. You just cant compare the casualty lists like this. The terrorists were armed for that particular operation and I believe these guys are trained enough to hold on best of the troops in world for several hours. The priority of the commandos were to save the rest of the air-crafts and they dared their lives for that. Only after securing the aircrafts they went for full offensive. Today's Bengali news paper in Kolkata says that the soldiers literally pushed away the aircrafts by hands under heavy firing from the terrorists. Plese dont say anything that insults their sacrifice.



No the media is firing baseless stats from their hips..
they were not four they were 20..and the commandos were trying to catch them alive in which they partially succeeded.

Latest Pakistani News, Breaking News, PNS Mehran Karachi under attack
this news says 20 attacked and atleast one arrested

Operation at PNS Base in Karachi comes to an end | Metropolitan | DAWN.COM
this website says 20 attacked , 6 killed but says nothing about the other 14...in a previous report on this well known website they were saying 4 arrested but that page is now removed.

Four militants arrested in Karachi attack - Hindustan Times
says four arrested

http://www.thefrontierpost.com/?p=17713
says ten or fifteen terrorists attacked the base.

the figure of just 4 terrorists taking over the airbase was from delusional interior minister and nobody else.
all the above reports and many more are conflicting about how many terrorists attcked the base and how many were killed or arrested...but yesterday #pn cheif did mention some arrests during his press conference..


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## Najam Khan

fatman17 said:


> *Was raid on Pakistani base an inside job?*
> 
> 
> Everything about the assault on Monday, from the methodical tactics to the targeting of sensitive aircraft suggests the attackers used inside information. "It looks like an inside job. That should be the biggest worry for the military &#8211; and for all of us," said security analyst Imtiaz Gul.
> 
> The spectre of Islamist infiltration has haunted the army for decades. After surviving an assassination bid in 2003 &#8211; one orchestrated by air force officers &#8211; General Pervez Musharraf purged the superior ranks of known Islamists.


 
Apart from the inside information, our Military should get some lesson from previous similar attacks...there were always some option left open.

In Baidian and Munawa Police training school attacks (2009), the walls were too short to climb...without proper sniper towers in the academy it was easy target.
In GHQ, apart from other factors a reason of their entry was that the guards left their position while responding to a bomb attack at TM chowk gate...which was just a diversion for the uniformed terrorists to enter from the army museum side.

In parade lane attack, their was enough security at both gates of the colony...some of the walls were even secure...but the terrorists used ladder to climb them, where no watch tower was placed....now things have changed, if one visit these places, they really don't look like previous ones...a 'fort' could be the right word for them!

In recent attack on navy, initial reports claimed that they entered from PAF museum, later clamined korangi sewerage...and final claimed that they used ladders to enter....which ever is true, its nothing new for them...they have done similar task in pasts as explained above.

We should learn something from past, instead of waiting for an incident to happen!


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## roadrunner

fatman17 said:


> *Was raid on Pakistani base an inside job?*
> 
> Assault in Karachi is one of several attacks in recent years linked to Islamists working within Pakistan's military
> 
> Declan Walsh guardian.co.uk, Monday 23 May 2011
> 
> 
> The loss of two Orion P-3C aircraft, valued at $36m (£22.3m) each, is a deep blow to Pakistan's military. But the greater worry is how the Islamist fighters who destroyed them accessed the airfield in the first place.
> 
> Everything about the assault on Monday, from the methodical tactics to the targeting of sensitive aircraft suggests the attackers used inside information. "It looks like an inside job. That should be the biggest worry for the military &#8211; and for all of us," said security analyst Imtiaz Gul.
> 
> The spectre of Islamist infiltration has haunted the army for decades. After surviving an assassination bid in 2003 &#8211; one orchestrated by air force officers &#8211; General Pervez Musharraf purged the superior ranks of known Islamists.
> 
> Extremists are still sprinkled within the lower ranks, however, and have been suspected of involvement in several atrocities, such as the 2007 suicide attack on a commando base and the spectacular assault in 2009 on army headquarters in Rawalpindi. Air force officers were arrested for a separate plot against Musharraf in 2006. perpetrators of some attacks have fled to Waziristan, where they find shelter among jihadi groups that allegedly enjoy covert army support.


 
I think that's far fetched. Orions are sea warfare aircraft. Why target them? 

It's unlikely anyone in Pakistan owns a submarine.


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## Najam Khan

roadrunner said:


> I think that's far fetched. Orions are sea warfare aircraft. Why target them?
> 
> It's unlikely anyone in Pakistan owns a submarine.


 
Yes well pointed....every body knows whats the role of this a/c....and who will get advantage from it.


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## DarK-LorD

Any other Aircraft other than the 2 Orion's damaged?


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## Najam Khan

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Any other Aircraft other than the 2 Orion's damaged?


 
How much more you want to hear?


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## fatman17

roadrunner said:


> I think that's far fetched. Orions are sea warfare aircraft. Why target them?
> 
> It's unlikely anyone in Pakistan owns a submarine.



its the symbolism - US made!!!

---------- Post added at 11:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 AM ----------




SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Any other Aircraft other than the 2 Orion's damaged?



u mean completely destroyed!


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## fatman17

NAjAM Khan said:


> Apart from the inside information, our Military should get some lesson from previous similar attacks...there were always some option left open.
> 
> In Baidian and Munawa Police training school attacks (2009), the walls were too short to climb...without proper sniper towers in the academy it was easy target.
> In GHQ, apart from other factors a reason of their entry was that the guards left their position while responding to a bomb attack at TM chowk gate...which was just a diversion for the uniformed terrorists to enter from the army museum side.
> 
> In parade lane attack, their was enough security at both gates of the colony...some of the walls were even secure...but the terrorists used ladder to climb them, where no watch tower was placed....now things have changed, if one visit these places, they really don't look like previous ones...a 'fort' could be the right word for them!
> 
> In recent attack on navy, initial reports claimed that they entered from PAF museum, later clamined korangi sewerage...and final claimed that they used ladders to enter....which ever is true, its nothing new for them...they have done similar task in pasts as explained above.
> 
> We should learn something from past, instead of waiting for an incident to happen!



what is required is war-time SOPs not peace-time, normal security measures.

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## roadrunner

The BLA arent going to target Orions unless they're planning on swimming in from the Arabian Sea.


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## ramu

roadrunner said:


> The BLA arent going to target Orions unless they're planning on swimming in from the Arabian Sea.


 
Who knows if the target was really P3C Orions or any aircrafts on their way. We tend to assign too much credit to bugs that just need to be squashed. If atleast one terrorist was caught alive, he would sing and we would know who was behind it.


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## F86 Saber

He was the only son of his parents and his father a Retd. Lt. Coln. himself says that if he had another son he would not have hesitated a moment to sacrifice him for our country. I know how important an only son is to his parents being one myself, there are no words to describe their grief. But instead of cursing the Govt. and the Army, this guy who just lost the most important thing in his life for the country is willing to sacrifice more. This is the definition of a soldier. 
The keyboard warriors who constantly bad mouth the army for not doing its job properly should realize that it takes a lot more effort and courage to actually face lethal bullets coming at you than type a few lines in bad English and post on a forum. 
To save Pakistan, a Mustafa Kamal Ataturk type action is required, otherwise we are doomed.

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## roadrunner

ramu said:


> Who knows if the target was really P3C Orions or any aircrafts on their way. We tend to assign too much credit to bugs that just need to be squashed. If atleast one terrorist was caught alive, he would sing and we would know who was behind it.


 
When people pick targets with careful planning, they usually will plan whether to attack a naval base or a land base. Don't be so naive.


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## Najam Khan

fatman17 said:


> what is required is war-time SOPs not peace-time, normal security measures.


 
Yes definitely...but why is that these 'war time SOPs' are seen after each incident....why wait for people to point out fingers!

Last night in Mehr Bhkari's program 'Cross fire' AM Shahid Latif said the same thing, we have not implemented enough preventive measures since 9/11.


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## fatman17

P-3C-II.75 Orion


Pakistan Naval Aviation

Delivered; 7
Current; 4
Lost; 3
On Order; 3

- In service from 1997

- Note: The acquisition of the original batch of 3 Orions was approved in 1988, with deliveries to the USN's training unit (VP-30 at Jacksonville, FL) taking place in late 1990. Although Pakistan Navy crews commenced training on the aircraft in February 1991, by mid-year the supply of the Orions was subject to an arms embargo & the aircraft were not delivered to Pakistan until December 1996 & January 1997, respectively. Folowing the Orion's official induction into service on 22nd January 1999, an attrition loss occurred on 29th October 1999 & the type was grounded shortly after. The 2 surviving aircraft were placed into storage for a number of years, but overhauled by OGMA, at Mehran, in 2006/2007 & returned to service. A further 7 refurbished ex-US Navy examples are now being supplied, following the lifting of the aforementioned embargo. The first 2 of these were delivered to Pakistan in January & March 2007, respectively, with the third & fourth examples handed-over in the USA during January 2010. Following a spell of time spent crew training at NAS Jacksonville, Florida, these were then flown to Mehran, Pakistan at the end of May 2010, where they were officially accepted into service at a formal ceremony on 1st June 2010. A terrorist attack by militants at PNS Mehran on 22nd May 2011 resulted in the destruction of 2 Orions on the ground & 12 fatalities amongst personnel at the base.

- Located at 28 Squadron


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## johnny boy

I THINK AFTER THIS ATTACK PAKISTAN ATLEAST DECLARES THESE BASTARDS INCL LET AND HIZB...AS TERRORISTS AND NOT FREEDOM FIGHTERS...ANY DEGREE OF SCUM REMAINING IN PAKSITAN IS SUICIDIAL AND DETRIMENTAL FOR PAKISTAN AND ITS ECONOMY AS A WHOLE.


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## Najam Khan

Some pictures from this incident.


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## monitor

thats mean you have only 1 operational orion at this moment .


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## Najam Khan

NSSG COmmando


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## Najam Khan

A soldier poses with the victory sign outside a major Pakistani naval air base following an attack by militants in Karachi on May 23, 2011. Pakistan on May 23 regained control of a naval base in the country's biggest city, 17 hours after heavily armed Taliban gunmen attacked, destroying two US-made surveillance planes and killing 10 personnel. It was the worst assault on a military base since the army headquarters was besieged in October 2009, piling further embarrassment on the armed forces three weeks after Osama bin Laden was found living under their noses.





Pakistani soldiers arrive for an operation against militants at a major Pakistani naval air base following an attack by militants in Karachi on May 23, 2011. Taliban gunmen armed with rockets and explosives stormed a major naval air base in the heart of Pakistan's biggest city, destroying two US-made surveillance aircraft and killing 12 personnel. I


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## monitor

Pakistans paradox
May 24,2011

By CHRIS ALLBRITTON

An attack on a Pakistani naval air force base on Sunday night heaped further humiliation on a military already stunned by the killing of Osama Bin Laden on its territory, and raised further doubts about Pakistans ability to confront militancy.


The brazen assault on the headquarters of the naval air wing in Karachi fueled fears about the Talebans growing capacity to stage attacks and the militarys shrinking ability to control extremists  both inside and outside its own ranks.

Its a complicated situation, a paradox, said Kamran Bokhari, Middle East and South Asia director for global intelligence firm STRATFOR.

On the one hand, youve got elements within the security establishment that are helping the militants and at the same time, the militants are attacking that same security establishment. Pakistans military has been on the back foot since US special forces killed Al-Qaeda leader Bin Laden on May 2, unable to explain either why they had been unable to catch the worlds most wanted man themselves nor why the Americans could launch a raid deep into their territory undetected.

The Pakistani Taleban, however, are on a roll. Their spokesmen promised to sow chaos and avenge the killing of Bin Laden. Sundays spectacular attack in Karachi shows that they are making good on their promises.

The attacks are likely to further deepen the United States concerns and suspicions about Pakistan as a reliable partner in its war against militancy, with no clear answer to the question of whether the Pakistan military is incompetent in fighting militants or complicit with them. STRATFORs Bokhari said it was obvious that Sundays attackers had inside help, suggesting that elements of the military, at least, are turning against the state as it comes under unprecedented pressure to roll up the militant networks. It is not possible for people with no familiarity with the military establishment to be able to carry out such an attack. Like in Rawalpindi, the militants had inside facilitators who provided access, he said.

In October 2009, a similarly small raiding party of Pakistani Taleban attacked the Armys General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, taking 42 people hostage, including several senior and junior officers. By the end of the day-long ordeal, nine gunmen, 11 soldiers and three hostages were dead.

As far back as 2006, the Pakistani military had to deal with extremist sympathizers in its ranks, with a leaked US State Department cable revealing monthly reports of acts of petty sabotage to Pakistans fleet of F-16s in an attempt to keep them from being deployed in support of operations in Pakistans tribal badlands to the northwest. And the biggest question of complicity or sympathy with militants is the case of Bin Laden, who lived for years in the shadow of the Pakistan Military Academy in Abbottabad. Suspicions abound that he had help from a network of sympathizers who may have been either retired or serving military officers.

Pakistans powerful military intelligence agency has long cultivated ties with the Haqqani network, the violent faction based in North Waziristan, in its lawless tribal belt, that Washington blames for fueling the insurgency across the border in eastern Afghanistan.

This attack must be a wake up call for the government, particularly the military, who apparently has indulged in little cost benefit analysis about its relations with the Haqqani network, said Imtiaz Gul, the author of The Most Dangerous Place a book on Pakistans lawless frontiers.

Gul says the Pakistani military believes that Haqqani network doesnt touch us, therefore, we dont touch them. However, he said, the Haqqani network harbors militants attacking the state.

If the government and military find incriminating evidence that connects the attacks with militants hiding in North Waziristan  where the United States has been demanding an offensive against the Haqqanis  I hope they will swiftly move to neutralize those elements, he said. Thats unlikely, Bokhari says. He expects an intensification in offensives, but not in North Waziristan, because the military dont want to make more enemies than they already have, and dont want to be seen as doing the USs bidding. As for the civilian government, it looks like it is missing yet another opportunity to take advantage of the weakened position of the military.

Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani has called an emergency meeting of the Defense Committee, but theres little sense of urgency. The meeting is on Wednesday, fully two days after the showdown in Karachi. The civilians missed a similar opportunity after the Bin Laden raid to bring the military, which controls foreign policy and national security, to heel.
Courtesy: Arab News


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## Najam Khan




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## Geronimo2011

roadrunner said:


> I think that's far fetched. Orions are sea warfare aircraft. Why target them?
> 
> *It's unlikely anyone in Pakistan owns a submarine.*


 
But there are enough within Pakistan (and probably Pakistan army) who want to see the current govt and military leadership humiliated.. What better way than take out some of the prized assets of that military.. btw, an Orion is much more expensive than a F 16 or any other air asset, with probably the exception of the AEWs


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## ramu

roadrunner said:


> When people pick targets with careful planning, they usually will plan whether to attack a naval base or a land base. Don't be so naive.


 
OK smart one... You know what the intent of the terrorists were... they wanted to take out the aircrafts but let me ask you, given this is a defence base and is one of the most gaurded and fortified one, why did Pakistan army take so long and why could they not catch atleast one alive ? Why ?

The number of terrorists were less than 5 is what is claimed as against initial reportes of 10-15-20-25. Are 5 so difficult to handle in a Pakistani Military base ?

Why were they not neutralised earlier or taken one alive ?


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## roadrunner

Geronimo2011 said:


> But there are enough within Pakistan (and probably Pakistan army) who want to see the current govt and military leadership humiliated.. What better way than take out some of the prized assets of that military.. btw, an Orion is much more expensive than a F 16 or any other air asset, with probably the exception of the AEWs



If people are after prestige then Masroor Airbase would be it. Or Kahuta. 

But humiliation is unlikely to figure because they'd be accepting that the airforce bases are too difficult to attack.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> OK smart one... You know what the intent of the terrorists were... they wanted to take out the aircrafts but let me ask you, given this is a defence base and is one of the most gaurded and fortified one, why did Pakistan army take so long and why could they not catch atleast one alive ? Why ?
> 
> The number of terrorists were less than 5 is what is claimed as against initial reportes of 10-15-20-25. Are 5 so difficult to handle in a Pakistani Military base ?
> 
> Why were they not neutralised earlier or taken one alive ?


 

OO helloo!! They were not 5. They were about 11 to 12. . Unlike Mumbai attacks; these terrorists committed suicide by shooting themselves, when they knew they were short of ammo. .


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## roadrunner

ramu said:


> OK smart one... You know what the intent of the terrorists were... they wanted to take out the aircrafts but let me ask you, given this is a defence base and is one of the most gaurded and fortified one, why did Pakistan army take so long and why could they not catch atleast one alive ? Why ?
> 
> The number of terrorists were less than 5 is what is claimed as against initial reportes of 10-15-20-25. Are 5 so difficult to handle in a Pakistani Military base ?
> 
> Why were they not neutralised earlier or taken one alive ?



There's no rush.


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> OO helloo!! They were not 5. They were about 11 to 12. . Unlike Mumbai attacks; these terrorists committed suicide by shooting themselves, when they knew they were short of ammo. .


 
How many were killed , How many escaped ?


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> How many were killed , How many escaped ?


 
according to my knowledge; 2 of them committed suicide, 2 escaped and rest of them were killed by Security Forces. .


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## Najam Khan

ramu said:


> How many were killed , How many escaped ?


 
4 killed, 2 escaped. Thats Rehamn Malik's count. (no comment)


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

NAjAM Khan said:


> 4 killed, 2 escaped. Thats Rehamn Malik's count. (no comment)


 

Rehman Malik is the world's biggest j@cK @$$


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> according to my knowledge; 2 of them committed suicide, *2 escaped *and rest of them were killed by Security Forces. .


 
That still makes it 6. 2 + 2 + rest (2 according to Rehman Malik) = 6 So how is it 11 or 12. And you are not even sure it is 11 or 12.


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## Najam Khan

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> Rehman Malik is the world's biggest j@cK @$$


 
Yes, moments after the incident he starts claiming it Al Qaeda's work. Even by mid of next day he was saying same crap...the question is simple what is his source.. dead terrorists? i he knows its coming...where the F was his law enforcement agencies?


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> That still makes it 6. 2 + 2 + rest (2 according to Rehman Malik) = 6 So how is it 11 or 12. And you are not even sure it is 11 or 12.


 

our stupid interior minister issued the stupid statement that they were 6 (without confirming). But they were 12, as mentioned by all tv channels. .


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## monitor

how many of them were is not concern , more important is how could they entered the secured zone ?


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

NAjAM Khan said:


> Yes, moments after the incident he starts claiming it Al Qaeda's work. Even by mid of next day he was saying same crap...the question is simple what is his source.. dead terrorists? i he knows its coming...where the F was his law enforcement agencies?


 

you can estimate his knowledge on issues by the incident in which an Air Blue aircraft crashed in Islamabad. Malik in his first statement said that some people have survived in that aircraft but later no one was alive. .


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## JonAsad

The numbers were more than 6 terrorists- Most probably the rest of them managed to escape- and the face saving exercise is on-


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> our stupid interior minister issued the stupid statement that they were 6 (without confirming). But they were 12, as mentioned by all tv channels. .


 
Media channels will claim whatever. In the Mumbai incident they exaggerated the numbers, so media is not a reliable source. Any other person who holds a position of responsibility either in the civilian Government or is from the armed forces has given a statement with numbers?

P.S : I just cannot believe 2 escaped after such an audacious attack. How can they escape if all the gates are sealed after the initial assault ? How on earth do the terrorists know ways of dodging the forces in their own den? It clearly smacks of incompetence of the Pakistani forces atleast in this instance.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

monitor said:


> how many of them were is not concern , more important is how could they entered the secured zone ?


 

that investigation is being carried out. According to some sources there was a sewerage system which they used to enter and the same was used to escape by 2 terrorists. I hope instead of remaining stubborn our forces learn something from this. .


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## I M Sikander

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> our stupid interior minister issued the stupid statement that they were 6 (without confirming). But they were 12, as mentioned by all tv channels. .


 
TV channels were not even allowed to enter the base, how would they know the exact number. TV persons were doig just speculations, and this is what they always do to earn ratings


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## LeGenD

Mav3rick said:


> How I wish somebody could forward my msg to the speaker:
> 
> Sir, Pakistan is fully aware of who her enemies are, both domestic and foreign. Talibaan were never our enemies, neither are they our enemies today.


What is TTP then? You are only affirming that many Pakistani are still in denial mode.

This is TTP agenda:



> TTP ideology reinforces the points laid out in the initial moves announced by the organization upon its formation in December 2007, namely:
> 
> 1. Enforce sharia.
> 2. Unite against coalition forces in Afghanistan.
> 3. Perform defensive jihad against the Pakistani Army.


Source: http://www.diis.dk/graphics/Publications/Reports2010/RP2010-12-Tehrik-e-Taliban_web.pdf

From US state department:



> TTP is a Pakistan-based terrorist organization that has claimed responsibility for numerous terrorist acts against Pakistani and U.S. interests. Hakimullah Mehsud has been the leader of TTP since August 2009 and Wali Ur Rehman is the TTP Emir in South Waziristan. Rehman has participated in cross-border attacks in Afghanistan against U.S. and NATO personnel, as well as attacks against Pakistani security forces.


Source: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/ps/2010/09/146545.htm

For additional information: http://www.nctc.gov/site/groups/ttp.html



Mav3rick said:


> If you understand the talibaan ideology you will know for a fact that they promote education of men and women alike which destroys your first pathetic lie that they blow up schools.


Really?

Mullah Umar also banned women from working and education under his rule.



Mav3rick said:


> Talibaan never blew any place of worship/hospital or shopping markets when they were in power in Afghanistan which exposes your other lies.


Really?

After 1,700 years, Buddhas fall to Taliban dynamite - Telegraph

They did not needed to blow things apart in Afghanistan when they were controlling majority of its land but they still did.



Mav3rick said:


> However, schools are being blown up, people slaughtered, women punished barbarically, targeted and random bombings of military installations, places of worship and busy markets killing innocents. But these are being carried out by mercenaries that are hired to pose as Talibaan and to blame every crime against humanity on Talibaan. TTP, mainly responsible for almost 90% of the bombings in Pakistan, are bred, trained, armed and provided intel by some of our closest enemies and some of our closest 'friends'. These TTP mercenaries, mostly illiterate young men/women who are swayed easily by lure of heaven or money for their family, are being used by external anti Pakistan elements. Even our agencies are well aware of it.


Regarding blowing up of schools in Pakistan: learn from history.

And fundings for groups like these also come from some of our so-called arab friends comfortably residing in Middle East:

WikiLeaks cables portray Saudi Arabia as a cash machine for terrorists | World news | The Guardian



Mav3rick said:


> Why a full on confrontation is not forthcoming, even yet, is beyond me.


Because of lack of understanding of ground realities (at civilian level), and will to do more in our OWN war on terror (at administration level).



Mav3rick said:


> The only thing that I can think is that the US$ to our top military and political hierarchy is more powerful then the pride and nation of Pakistan.


Pakistan is doing very poorly economically. Our nation is dependent on US AID (no matter how much you deny this). Pride and honor comes with self-sufficiency and our country is seriously lacking in this case. 



Mav3rick said:


> This is why we desperately need the military to cleanse itself from within and then to cleanse the judiciary, bureaucracy, establishment and political system. We most desperately need a military and political establishment that thinks about Pakistan above everything else. We most desperately need to set out our alliances where our interests belong and to weed out the criminals that call themselves our allies and friends!


Sure. However, these changes will take time to implement and would only occur when this nation will manage to put itself in order and do some soul-searching.

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## jupiter2007

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> our stupid interior minister issued the stupid statement that they were 6 (without confirming). But they were 12, as mentioned by all tv channels. .


 
There were 12 terrorist, one shot himself, 3 terrorist exploded themselves, 2 escaped, 4 were captured and taken to unknown location for interrogation.


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## DarK-LorD

Pakistan may acquire Harbin SH-5as replacement though US may offer additional P-3C's.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> Media channels will claim whatever. In the Mumbai incident they exaggerated the numbers, so media is not a reliable source. Any other person who holds a position of responsibility either in the civilian Government or is from the armed forces has given a statement with numbers?



The claim of 12 terrorists was given by security forces. I think probably by Chief of Naval Staff.




ramu said:


> P.S : I just cannot believe 2 escaped after such an audacious attack. How can they escape if all the gates are sealed after the initial assault ? How on earth do the terrorists know ways of dodging the forces in their own den? It clearly smacks of incompetence of the Pakistani forces atleast in this instance.


 

Its not incompetence; its a stubborn behavior that our armed forces don't learn from their mistakes. .


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## Bang Galore

fatman17 said:


> *Was raid on Pakistani base an inside job?*
> 
> Assault in Karachi is one of several attacks in recent years linked to Islamists working within Pakistan's military
> 
> Declan Walsh guardian.co.uk, Monday 23 May 2011
> 
> 
> The loss of two Orion P-3C aircraft, valued at $36m (£22.3m) each, is a deep blow to Pakistan's military. But the greater worry is how the Islamist fighters who destroyed them accessed the airfield in the first place.
> 
> Everything about the assault on Monday, from the methodical tactics to the targeting of sensitive aircraft suggests the attackers used inside information. "It looks like an inside job. That should be the biggest worry for the military  and for all of us," said security analyst Imtiaz Gul.
> 
> The spectre of Islamist infiltration has haunted the army for decades. After surviving an assassination bid in 2003  one orchestrated by air force officers  General Pervez Musharraf purged the superior ranks of known Islamists.
> 
> Extremists are still sprinkled within the lower ranks, however, and have been suspected of involvement in several atrocities, such as the 2007 suicide attack on a commando base and the spectacular assault in 2009 on army headquarters in Rawalpindi. Air force officers were arrested for a separate plot against Musharraf in 2006. perpetrators of some attacks have fled to Waziristan, where they find shelter among jihadi groups that allegedly enjoy covert army support.


 
Something that Rehman Malik said suggest some inside involvement. He said that the attackers entered an area which was a blind spot of the cctv's, if I remember correctly he said about a 30 degree angle where the view of two cameras intersected was a blind spot & that the attackers had carefully planned their entry there. Pretty hard to assume that someone from the attackers just happened to choose that spot randomly to start the attack.



NAjAM Khan said:


>


 
*Javed Miandad ??*


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Ranasikander said:


> TV channels were not even allowed to enter the base, how would they know the exact number. TV persons were doig just speculations, and this is what they always do to earn ratings


 

the number 12 was given by security forces!!


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## I M Sikander

SSG and navy commandos performance have been pathetic in all terrorists attack. They failed every time with high casualty rate. 
During GHQ attack= 6 commandoes were killed in operation and it took 26 hrs to end the operation
In Lal Masjid= 12 SSg persons were killed
PNS Mehran= Just 2 terrorists killed, 2 blew them selves up, 2 got away (16 hrs to clear up)

What the hell is going on, SSG, navy and AF commandos reputation is at stack with every new operation they conduct


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> The claim of 12 terrorists was given by security forces. I think probably by Chief of Naval Staff.



I cannot find any source for this. Can you provide it please. Nowhere has the Navy Chief said about number of people. He spoke like they were from a different planet and his staff was incapable of handling them. He really cut a sorry figure. I am not sure how he became the Navy Chief !!!



SANABIL MIRZA said:


> Its not incompetence; its a stubborn behavior that our armed forces don't learn from their mistakes. .


 
That is incompetence.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Bang Galore said:


> Something that Rehman Malik said suggest some inside involvement. He said that the attackers entered an area which was a blind spot of the cctv's, if I remember correctly he said about a 30 degree angle where the view of two cameras intersected was a blind spot & that the attackers had carefully planned their entry there. Pretty hard to assume that someone from the attackers just happened to choose that spot randomly to start the attack.



Even if they had some inside help. That level of operations cannot be carried out by just TTP. They had a proper Spec Ops training and and support of an Intelligence Agency.




Bang Galore said:


> *Javed Miandad ??*


 

No he looks like him. There is his name on his left. . .


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## Xeric

For those who are imploring about the possibility of an inside job; They first need to understand the difference between an "inside job" and that "someone from the inside assisting or providing info that may be useful to the terrorists". Just because some airmen assisted when the terrorists attacked Musharraf in a suicide attack or just because Dr Usman (a former nursing in the Army) helped planned the GHQ attack would NOT automatically mean that these acts were an inside job, for sake of crying out loud!!


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## I M Sikander

Yah thats true but all are either dead or escaped, no one caught alive like Ajmal Qasab


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## monitor

Ranasikander said:


> SSG and navy commandos performance have been pathetic in all terrorists attack. They failed every time with high casualty rate.
> During GHQ attack= 6 commandoes were killed in operation and it took 26 hrs to end the operation
> In Lal Masjid= 12 SSg persons were killed
> PNS Mehran= Just 2 terrorists killed, 2 blew them selves up, 2 got away (16 hrs to clear up)
> 
> What the hell is going on, SSG, navy and AF commandos reputation is at stack with every new operation they conduct




GHQ don't know 
in lal masjid there were civilian so they took time 
and in mehran they wanted to capture them alive 
but the end result unfortunately Pakistan needs to rethink its quality and professionalism of their arm forces urgently.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> I cannot find any source for this. Can you provide it please. Nowhere has the Navy Chief said about number of people. He spoke like they were from a different planet and his staff was incapable of handling them. He really cut a sorry figure. I am not sure how he became the Navy Chief !!!


 

Not exactly the Naval Chief. But Security Forces. I am trying to find the link in Tribune. . I'll post it when I get it.


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## ramu

Xeric said:


> For those who are imploring about the possibility of an inside job; They first need to understand the difference between an "inside job" and that "someone from the inside assisting or providing info that may be useful to the terrorists". *Just* because some airmen assisted when the terrorists attacked Musharraf in a suicide attack or *just* because Dr Usman (a former nursing in the Army) helped planned the GHQ attack would NOT automatically mean that these acts were an inside job, for sake of crying out loud!!


 

1. inside job
2. someone from the inside assisting or providing info that may be useful to the terrorists
=> Question : #2 knowing the intention of the terrorists ?

Also focus on your usage of "Just"
Seriously, what are you thinking? Attacking a military base is as bad as helping someone else do it and is nothing short of an act of war/ treachery!


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## Tiger Awan

Ranasikander said:


> SSG and navy commandos performance have been pathetic in all terrorists attack. They failed every time with high casualty rate.
> During GHQ attack= 6 commandoes were killed in operation and it took 26 hrs to end the operation
> In Lal Masjid= 12 SSg persons were killed
> PNS Mehran= Just 2 terrorists killed, 2 blew them selves up, 2 got away (16 hrs to clear up)
> 
> What the hell is going on, SSG, navy and AF commandos reputation is at stack with every new operation they conduct



dont know about other but in GHQ they were called very late. Blame goes to those who were already there. and those who were guarding the area


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## I M Sikander

It matters not, whether called late or early. Once SSG was called, then it becomes their assignment and this is what SSG persons are trained and paid for.


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## Najam Khan

Ranasikander said:


> SSG and navy commandos performance have been pathetic in all terrorists attack. They failed every time with high casualty rate.
> During GHQ attack= 6 commandoes were killed in operation and it took 26 hrs to end the operation
> In Lal Masjid= 12 SSg persons were killed
> PNS Mehran= Just 2 terrorists killed, 2 blew them selves up, 2 got away (16 hrs to clear up)
> 
> What the hell is going on, SSG, navy and AF commandos reputation is at stack with every new operation they conduct



Its not about time, its about lives that are at stake and the objectives of operation.....you can't compare different op on basis of time, each op is different from other.


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## roadrunner

even if it was an inside job it doesnt narrow it down. All nationalities had access to the base. 

They should allow only Pakistani personnel inside the areas where there's hardware.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Ranasikander said:


> SSG and navy commandos performance have been pathetic in all terrorists attack. They failed every time with high casualty rate.
> During GHQ attack= 6 commandoes were killed in operation and it took 26 hrs to end the operation
> In Lal Masjid= 12 SSg persons were killed
> PNS Mehran= Just 2 terrorists killed, 2 blew them selves up, 2 got away (16 hrs to clear up)
> 
> What the hell is going on, SSG, navy and AF commandos reputation is at stack with every new operation they conduct


 

you say this because you have in mind that they were just marksman. Whereas they were professionally trained for Spec Ops and had ground advantage. . .


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## Xeric

i would request you not to over load you common sense and in that...



ramu said:


> 1. inside job



Inside job is something contrived by the establishment (the govt, military, int agencies etc) with tacit approval from the highest authority.


> 2. someone from the inside assisting or providing info that may be useful to the terrorists


This is mere treachery or _gaddari_. This doesnt not have any support from the establishment, it's just some bastard going bad and he decides 'at his own' that he should help the terrorists because 'he' believes that what the govt/military/leaders are doing is wrong or for that matter either if he has some issues with the policies of the state or that he has been bribed/pressurized/black mailed.

So, both of these are quite distinct in nature and there's no need to mix them up.


> => Question : #2 knowing the intention of the terrorists ?


Ofcourse the guy may know the intentions of the terrorist and it's that's why he would be categorized as a gaddar. Even if he didnt know, he is a culprit and thus handled accordingly.



> Also focus on your usage of "Just"


The 'just' was used to emphasize upon the fact that those acts were not state sponsored. Was it that difficult?


> Seriously, what are you thinking? Attacking a military base is as bad as helping someone else do it and is nothing short of an act of war/ treachery!


 
And who is disagreeing to that...han..?

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Ranasikander said:


> It matters not, whether called late or early. Once SSG was called, then it becomes their assignment and this is what SSG persons are trained and *paid for.*


 
don't use this word again. They are'nt paid in millions for this. You can't buy their lives. . .


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## ramu

Funny that you have to show the distinction. In the court of law the punishment will be life imprisonment vs hang till death. Does it matter ?


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## S.M.R

ramu said:


> OK smart one... You know what the intent of the terrorists were... they wanted to take out the aircrafts but let me ask you, given this is a defence base and is one of the most gaurded and fortified one,* why did Pakistan army take so long and why could they not catch atleast one alive ? Why ?*
> 
> The number of terrorists were less than 5 is *what is claimed as against initial reportes of 10-15-20-25*. Are 5 so difficult to handle in a Pakistani Military base ?
> 
> Why were they not neutralised earlier or taken one alive ?


 
The first priority of Army was to secure the Assets, and they remained successful in that, as the plane they fired was the first one, they could not fire other planes, thats why it took long.

Initial reports were based on TTP claims that 'they have sent 22 people' for attack. It is becoming habitual of TTP that they take responsibility of every Fart, which I sincerely doubt about their capability.

If you trust on initial reports then there were initial reports as well that 4 of the terrorists have been captured alive.


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> you say this because you have in mind that they were just marksman. Whereas they were professionally trained for Spec Ops and had ground advantage. . .


 
I am waiting for your link ...????


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> I am waiting for your link ...????


 

and i am trying my best to find it on internet. Its in Tribune actually. .


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## F86 Saber

According to this article, the Naval Chief has said in a press conference that there were total 5-7 terrorists, the first thing they did after crossing the wall war firing RPG's at the Orions. When In response the watch towers started firing at them, two of them jumped the wall and ran away while remaining returned fire. The response team arrived in less than 3 minutes which stopped the terrorists from destroying more aircrafts, the terrorists than ran and hid in the buildings. Three terrorists were shot dead while a fourth blew himself up and none were captures alive.

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## ramu

F86 Saber said:


> According to this article, the Naval Chief has said in a press conference that there were total 5-7 terrorists, the first thing they did after crossing the wall war firing RPG's at the Orions. When In response the watch towers started firing at them, two of them jumped the wall and ran away while remaining returned fire. The response team arrived in less than 3 minutes which stopped the terrorists from destroying more aircrafts, the terrorists than ran and hid in the buildings. Three terrorists were shot dead while a fourth blew himself up and none were captures alive.


 
Again the theory of 10 -11 terrorists falls flat.


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## majesticpankaj

the people are questioning the capabilities of TTP...but aren't they the one in colloboration with AQ, Haqqani and other terrorist organisations are giving tough time to nato in afganistan...??? they are very much capable.. we have seen in the past attacks on various millitary installations ... 

I think the attacked was preplanned with the insider help... u cannot bring that much of arsenal near to millitary bases and see the opportunity that u have P3C orion there to attack.. it may be mere coincidence that they have found the orions there or it is a inside job beacuse without intel they could not know that the orions are there or not...


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## Xeric

ramu said:


> Funny that you have to show the distinction. In the court of law the punishment will be life imprisonment vs hang till death. Does it matter ?


 
^^ Yeah it matters.

And inside job would require that entire establishment of the country to be hanged by their balls, on the other hand, some gaddar _alone _would have to face the gallows. Also, a state sponsored act (i.e. an inside job) has a different connotation in world affairs and in the international community, imagine, it is finally revealed that 9/11 was orchestrated by Bush himself or Mumbai by RAW (just giving an example, no need to go gung ho on this), so in this case the US invasion of Afg and the indian itch to attack Pakistan both stands void, the consequence, well i am sure you are sane enough to understand the remainder.

So see, they both are different, or else there would have been the same punishment for man-slaughter and a first degree murder, no?

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## DarK-LorD

Are the terrorists involved in the Attacks Mercenaries?


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## harpoon

NAjAM Khan said:


>


 
Did he just rolled off the bed , put on his beret and came to fight terrorists armed to the teeth. Where is his uniform, bullet proof jacket and webbing. I saw in news many of your Ranger soldiers walking around wearing T-Shirts with name RANGER stamped on the back. Is this not their drill uniform. Why are they wearing this in a combat zone. Their SOP kind of sucks.

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> Again the theory of 10 -11 terrorists falls flat.


 

what can you do when your Interior minister has committed a blunder. There has been a lot of criticism on him, because he showed pic of a dead terrorist on his blackberry. . IDIOT!


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## ramu

SR-71 BlackBird said:


> Are the terrorists involved in the Attacks Mercenaries?


 
The correct answer for now is "no idea". 


And it will take time to get Idea ...


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> what can you do when your Interior minister has committed a blunder. There has been a lot of criticism on him, because he showed pic of a dead terrorist on his blackberry. . IDIOT!


 
BTW, I have the same phone. He wanted to show some proof that they were indeed killed.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> Again the theory of 10 -11 terrorists falls flat.


 
LO G. Here is the link: Four dead in PNS Mehran attack: news agency ~ Breaking News

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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> BTW, I have the same phone. He wanted to show some proof that they were indeed killed.


 

oo hoo. I have no problem with the phone. But there was no need to show these pics in public. Everyone knew there was a terrorist attack and will be taken down sooner or later. .

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## Xeric

harpoon said:


> Did he just rolled off the bed , put on his beret and came to fight terrorists armed to the teeth. Where is the bullet proof jacket and webbing. I saw in news many of your Ranger soldiers walking around wearing T-Shirts with name RANGER stamped on the back. Is this not their drill uniform. Why are they wearing this in a combat zone. Their SOP kind of sucks.


 
No need to behave like a nun here.

The guy is probably the one guarding the outer periphery of the naval base, not the one who were actually fighting out the terrorists in a CQB environment. The guys (SSG N, elites etc) always wear BPJs when going inside the hot zone, if you must have seen the news clips regarding the attack you must have seen that there was an hell lot of uniforms outside the base for something like an outer cordon. i know every soldier should be wearing a BPJ, but the question is can we (or for that matter you military) afford them? Please, take some time out and check how many soldier from your regular Army are in possession of BPJs, and here you are 'worried' about a para-military soldier.

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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> LO G. Here is the link: Four dead in PNS Mehran attack: news agency ~ Breaking News


 
According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum. 

Does this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good ...


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## Najam Khan

harpoon said:


> Did he just rolled off the bed , put on his beret and came to fight terrorists armed to the teeth. Where is his uniform, bullet proof jacket and webbing. I saw in news many of your Ranger soldiers walking around wearing T-Shirts with name RANGER stamped on the back. Is this not their drill uniform. Why are they wearing this in a combat zone. Their SOP kind of sucks.


 
You don't need to worry...these soldier came as a back up, most of the single 't shirt' soldiers were stationed either at gates or around the perimeter.
Those who took part in the fight were properly geared.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum.
> 
> Does this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good ...


 

I think 6-8 were killed. 2 escaped and rest blew them up. .


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## JonAsad

ramu said:


> According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum.
> 
> Does *this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good *...


 
Exactly--- Bang


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## harpoon

*No need to behave like a nun here.

The guy is probably the one guarding the outer periphery of the naval base, not the one who were actually fighting out the terrorists in a CQB environment. The guys (SSG N, elites etc) always wear BPJs when going inside the hot zone, if you must have seen the news clips regarding the attack you must have seen that there was an hell lot of uniforms outside the base for something like an outer cordon. i know every soldier should be wearing a BPJ, but the question is can we (or for that matter you military) afford them? Please, take some time out and check how many soldier from your regular Army are in possession of BPJs, and here you are 'worried' about a para-military soldier.*

This still didn't answer why they are wearing T-Shirts to work or is that it is the Pakistani tradition.


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## Najam Khan

*aey arz-e-Pak teri hurmat pe kat mary hum
hai khoon teri ragun mein ab tak rawan humara.*

A brave soldier.

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## iPhone

ramu said:


> OK smart one... You know what the intent of the terrorists were... they wanted to take out the aircrafts but let me ask you, given this is a defence base and is one of the most gaurded and fortified one, why did Pakistan army take so long and why could they not catch atleast one alive ? Why e ?


The whole ball game changes when these rats are wearing suicide vest. Chances of capturing them alive are as minimal as can be. What do you do? You corner them they blow themselves up, you shoot their limbs, they detonate, you get close to them, they press the trigger even quicker to take you out as well.
I don't know why Indian members ask such questions, either they're enjoying it, or seeking attention but honestly its really not worth answering some of you guys questions let alone getting into a debate.


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## ramu

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> I think 6-8 were killed. 2 escaped and rest blew them up. .


 
Not really. 4 were killed that is what every source says. Also your source is a blog.


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## ramu

iPhone said:


> The whole ball game changes when these rats are wearing suicide vest. Chances of capturing them alive are as minimal as can be. What do you do? You corner them they blow themselves up, you shoot their limbs, they detonate, you get close to them, they press the trigger even quicker to take you out as well.
> I don't know why Indian members ask such questions, either they're enjoying it, or seeking attention but honestly its really not worth answering some of you guys questions let alone getting into a debate.


 
Sorry dude ... I had no idea they were wearing suicide vests. Missed that bit.


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

ramu said:


> Not really. 4 were killed that is what every source says. Also your source is a blog.


 

Well, then 4 were killed, 2 escaped and rest blew them up. . Because only 2 of them escaped. .


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

So 

The question I have is...

where are the resignations and dismissals?? 

Oh wait... some of them are looking for extensions actually... Why not... Let the world know that we reward incompetency... after all we reward treacherous treason why not stupidity and moronity also?? 

Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi... 

For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks... 

and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war... 

Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...


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## MumbaiIndians

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> what can you do when your Interior minister has committed a blunder. There has been a lot of criticism on him, because he showed pic of a dead terrorist on his blackberry. . IDIOT!


 
So, what is wrong with that?


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## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> So
> 
> The question I have is...
> 
> where are the resignations and dismissals??
> 
> Oh wait... some of them are looking for extensions actually... Why not... Let the world know that we reward incompetency... after all we reward treacherous treason why not stupidity and moronity also??
> 
> Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...
> 
> For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...
> 
> and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...
> 
> Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...


 

you think they are going to resign now when Navy needs more P-3 Orions. .


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## Hindustani

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> So
> 
> The question I have is...
> 
> where are the resignations and dismissals??
> 
> Oh wait... some of them are looking for extensions actually... Why not... Let the world know that we reward incompetency... after all we reward treacherous treason why not stupidity and moronity also??
> 
> Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...
> 
> For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...
> 
> and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...
> *
> Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...*


 

Nope I actually condemn what happened. And may the innocent lives RIP.. Both India and pakistan face a common threat that needs to be exterminated. However with increasing funds (from a suspected source) it only gives little hope to finally eradicate parasites such as these.


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## All-Green

I guess it is uncharacteristic of me but the way i see it...we need to sacrifice some people even if not guilty of personal failure but failure due to treachery of others.
Just to set an example that if it happens on your watch...it is indeed a failure. In case that we believe the claims that there was no inside hand, then it is even more critical to punish the entire chain of command which was handling security&#8230;right to the top commander.
This accountability and shame should start from the base commander himself. He may be a good guy but does not matter anymore.

After all, there is a limit to how much we should tolerate in way of brazen attacks amidst military facilities where the terrorists have a lot of know how where and when to strike and have ample munitions stored conveniently to carry on fighting for many many hours.
Surely the boot needs to be given to certain people and a very clear message needs to be sent to the generals, officers and soldiers...nothing shall go unpunished and it shall start from top.
The soldiers look upto their officers who look upto their generals.
The respect needs to be earned and can be lost when such things happen and no heads are rolled.

The command is supposed to own its mistakes and not disown its failure by singing praises of training and advanced tactics used by the terrorists.
We are at war here after all; we are supposed to be facing a determined enemy.
Instead of analyzing our own mistakes we make the enemy seem 10 times stronger and demoralize the soldiers and the nation who give too much respect to these rabid dogs.

The admiral is not alone in this attitude and that is what worries me.
Is the admiral not following suite here because he has seen other failures which went unpunished?

Sure there were indeed investigations and punishments on a lower level but certainly there has been no senior commander who has yet been sacrificed to ensure that the attitude becomes much more unforgiving towards such negligence.
Would a few high level court martials/resignations over GHQ or Abbottabad not have at least created an environment where there is no shyness in promising punishment for those whose negligence or support resulted in a disaster?

Till heads are not rolling, we shall not see the leaders openly embracing the truth in front of the nation.
I think Military leadership has to set an example of accountability after these series of breaches in our defense. We all need a clear policy defined by our leadership based on ground realities which they should share with us. With civilian and military leadership both defending their decisions and stances we shall not have any strategy shift.
I hope the military uses these breaches to highlight and rectify not only its own shortfalls but also highlight the many reasons why this is happening, to the civilian leadership&#8230;Please, throw the ball in the court of civilian leadership and ask them why there is no accountability of support network while military is sent to fight the terrorists. Do raise the question that if on one hand our provincial ministers meet the outlawed and banned outfits which have actually joined up with TTP&#8230;how we can achieve clarity about who is the enemy?
Why should we expect that there shall be no split within nation or military if the leadership has not qualified the enemy?
I hope the military leadership realizes that it can indeed save Pakistan but it shall have to start by setting its own house in order and using these measures to drive the political leadership into a corner by demanding a clear cut national policy drafted by civilian leadership which the military and ISI have to follow regarding this phenomena.
Let us ask the civilian leadership to deliver by using this principled approach.
TTP is only strong because we are shy to admit that it has some supporters which walk free...
TTP is only strong because they are sitting on the drug and major smuggling routes and have absorbed all the criminal syndicates to give rise to an uber terrorist mafia which is earning a lot of black money and is also a mercenary force for hire...

TTP can be eliminated but for that we need an approach where all the organs of this mafia are targeted.

*Clean up the military wing of militants and terrorists via military actions.*
I disagree with Imran Khan here despite always supporting him as a good guy.
He said the same right after Buner operation was launched...yet had we sent him to negotiate with the TTP he would have been butchered by them as well. In this he is not yet completely aware of the power these people hold via twisting Islam.
You need to realize what TTP stands for
To mix them with our own people and look for dialogue is the mistake that has killed thousands of Pakistanis and given rise to their credibility.
We should realize that when you talk with TTP and appoint clerics like Sufi Muhammad as middle men, they are usually able to associate more with each other than with Pakistan and us poor Pakistanis...this is evident when Fazlullah was talked to by Sufi Muhammad and despite Pakistani state bending over...the rascals of TTP instead gloated and demanded more and more....they are power hungry monsters who feed on a twisted religious mentality...they can never ever welcome any stability, development and peace which brings mental growth and maturity.
The clerics are mostly sympathetic to TTP ideology and are certainly not bothered with Pakistan as much as their own power base in the name of Islam...they have a business case with or without Pakistan since by twisting the peoples thoughts their hold over the people is strong.
Actually a destabilized Pakistan suits them since the more chaos there is, the less education and lesser the prospects of a normal life for youngsters....a most fertile ground for hate based propaganda to take root in young minds in the name of religion.
To say that no military action is required is indeed folly and i think this is where Imran Khan is wrong.
However to say that military action alone is the solution is not something i am saying.
The only approach is to use military where the militants are well entrenched and then bring in law enforcement and enforce the law instead of socializing with those elements who are political players since they have influence on the terrorists to some extent...
sorry but this is not something i can call as a strategic dialogue...we do this from the wrong perspective and count on these quasi terrorist sympathizers to negotiate some truce.
This is how we delegated our authority to TTP...
This is the lesson that the martyrdom of many Pakistanis in Swat taught us...never trust the clerics and the Mullahs to help stabilize Pakistan.
They opposed its creation and are not much bothered about it.
There is no dialogue with TTP as it is a criminal/terrorist franchise and any law shall be most unwelcome news for it.

How much more can we tolerate outlaws?

*Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings*
This should include targeting the sectarian killing schools of religious thought which have a strong base in Punjab and still have strong political ties with PML-N...this can be done by law enforcement agencies....honestly!
However when law minister of Punjab socializes with lashker e Jhangvi, i am sure it is not about lacking capability but lacking intent due to other motivations!
Prosecution of the ones in charge of hate filled lashkars is absolutely necessary to eliminate the violence and the atmosphere in which young minds are brainwashed by clerics and taught about heavenly merits of hating other sects due to their flawed Islam ...certainly a most twisted ideology but only condemned in carefully guarded words...never in action.

*Create an atmosphere where hate spewing people are held accountable*
We should try all those in courts who create unrest by promoting hate and violence in the name of religion, sect, creed, ethnicity etc.
Tolerating such goons is what has caused our society to degenerate to this level, we need to take such things deadly serious.

Our civilian and military leadership needs to own their mistakes and set examples.
If they fail to do so then we should come in the streets...but not under a counter ideology where we want a different system...certainly not now when all such counter ideologies are owned by dodgy characters which are being supported by different hands to gain leverage.
We first need to work towards a more aware society which accepts the flaws instead of just giving into conspiracy theories in order to jump into the arms of any particular camp.
Be patient my friends...we can have any system we want and certainly laws can be modified but our problem is not the system but selective implementation of laws!
Why should we cry Islamic system and then see TTP hijacking it?
Let us cry for justice, accountability and education.
These are the things that all the enemies of Pakistan are shy of and all the well wishers of Pakistan want.
Let us first get some values back in our country and improve our social awareness.

Do understand that today we need to implement a system...there are many things which are right in the current system but due to lack of implementation they are rendered useless.
Let us work with the system we have and first use our strength to change the corrupt and inefficient faces and replace them with the clean ones who have seen that any major vice is punished by a socially aware Pakistani nation.

If you say that in Islamic system the rulers are supposed to be good men then please analyze what you are saying...Pakistani constitution is not un-Islamic and even in our constitution one cannot hold office if one is of bad repute even...then is it fault of our system that corruption is rampant?
Sure we can improve the system and introduce new laws in tune with developing realities!
Sure, it may well be that a true Islamic system is indeed something that can bring great dividends for Pakistan.
But is the current scenario due to a failure of system or a failure of system implementation?

Can the any system including an Islamic system not fail if implemented wrongly?
Yes it can, remember Taliban and how they derailed and focused their energies on some really pathetic things like mandatory beards etc.?
Remember how their Islam did not tolerate others (Hazara Shias) Islam? 
Do we really want to give these people legitimacy?
Why not clean all the crazies and denounce them so that after 10-20 years the people learn to segregate between the khariji terrorist ideology of a twisted Islam and truly Islamic values which are indeed worthy of working towards and implementing.
Let us also acknowledge the complete set of problems.

The current dilemma we face internally is because people have hijacked Pakistan and its identity in the name of their brand of Islam which is more like the Islam of Kharijis than of any sane person...however this is the sad truth.
Whether my Pakistani brothers want democracy or a modern Islamic system (unlike the stupid and barbaric version of any Taliban)...they need to see this Khariji ideology for what it is...the number one enemy of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
If you implement democracy then the holier than thou clerics and militants will say it is Un-Islamic; on the other hand if you implement the best Islamic system they will still brand it as a conspiracy against the true Islam and a sham.

We gave them Sharia laws in Swat and after few days when the Sharia courts started announcing punishments for the Taliban who had captured property of others or were harassing others, the Taliban suddenly wanted more and were not satisfied with the Sharia...
Of course why would they be satisfied with any Law which holds them accountable like ordinary men?

My Pakistani brothers and sisters...please stop being influenced by different sects and camps which only end up dividing us and harming Pakistan.
We have to stop harping the tune of others and need to realize that our collective goal is to get a Pakistan where people are held accountable and there is justice and fair play...which lead to true strength.
This needs not just education but a collective conscience which we need to build ourselves.
A social awareness by virtue of which our people are conscious enough to not let anyone harm Pakistan whether in name of Islam, liberalism, ethnicity or any other basis.

We need to focus on the lofty values which are indeed the foundation of any good system...justice, accountability, law and order!
When you have a society where there are at least some values that are good...you can build it further and tailor it more towards your finer needs.

However today, let us come together and draw a line where anyone who is harming Pakistan and wants to promote violence and intolerance is branded as our enemy instead of being honored with a cult following.
Let us unite on some primary things and help bring stability back to the motherland.
When the dust settles and we achieve normalcy, let us work peacefully towards whatever direction we want Pakistan to take.
Let us unify in promoting some values which we all want and let us back it up with our voices and presence in the streets if the leadership fails us.
Let us be much more vocal and active in denouncing all the flaws and errors made so that the rulers and leaders are checked and an environment conducive for positive changes is created.
Let us love Pakistan and protect it from all enemies whether internal or external.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Hindustani said:


> Nope I actually condemn what happened. And may the innocent lives RIP.. Both India and pakistan face a common threat that needs to be exterminated. However with increasing funds (from a suspected source) it only gives little hope to finally eradicate parasites such as these.


 
I respect your condemnation... But the common threat of India and Pakistan unfortunately are each other...


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## iPhone

ramu said:


> Sorry dude ... I had no idea they were wearing suicide vests. Missed that bit.


 
Common bro, this is how they operate. They come on suicide mission not to be captured alive. I don't mean to be rude but you've posted on so many pages of this thread, this bit of info was clear from the very start that they're wearing suicide vests, just as they were during GHQ attack, this is part of their gear now.


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## VelocuR

Terrorist (win) vs Pakistan's institution=GHQ attack, ISI offices, Army, Navy Attack, Mall attack, vice versa


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## Hindustani

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I respect your condemnation... But the common threat of India and Pakistan unfortunately are each other...


 

Yeah I agree. However at times like this, it's better to put differences aside.. may better sense prevail in both countries in the future..


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## fatman17

@All-Green
*Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings*

here is the problem with this - all terrorists/militants captured so far are mostly 'released' due to 'lack of evidence' - what is required is something more than this - its called 'extreme prejudice'!

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## Riz

NAjAM Khan said:


> *aey arz-e-Pak teri hurmat pe kat mary hum
> hai khoon teri ragun mein ab tak rawan humara.*
> 
> A brave soldier.


 
Salute to you with my wet eyes Sir, May Allah rest his soul in peace........................
* Ae watan tu nen pukara to lahu khol utha.Tere Bety tere Janbaz Chaly aaty hen......*


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## SQ8

harpoon said:


> *
> 
> This still didn't answer why they are wearing T-Shirts to work or is that it is the Pakistani tradition.*


*

Yes, we are really poor.. our folks dont wear three piece dinner suits to work in 42 C heat.. 
casual is us.. 

Somehow i get the feeling he still feels better than the guy with the ironed , starched uniform seen on paramilitary forces to our east.



Sort of reply you deserve anyway..*

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## Spring Onion

Santro said:


> Yes, we are really poor.. our folks dont wear three piece dinner suits to work in 42 C heat..
> casual is us..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sort of reply you deserve anyway..


 
You dint get what he was implying. so the only answer he deserves is a pink colour


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## MumbaiIndians

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...
> 
> For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...
> 
> and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...
> 
> Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...


 
From here, *I can see that Pakistanis abroad have no interests in well-being of Pakistan or its people. They are more worried about 'pride'.*

If you had so much interests and future of Pakistan in your minds, you would never push Pakistan into anti-India mode. Its a big shame that you guys are like those Indian americans who keep whining about non-action of Indian Government after 26/11 terror attack but they shut their mouth when someone asks, "when you are coming back to India and work here for home company?".

Seriously, its time for you *non-resident Pakistanis* to stop this sillyness of forwarding foreign agendas of creating tensions in region. The same advice which I give to *Indian american fools*.

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## fatman17

Xeric said:


> For those who are imploring about the possibility of an inside job; They first need to understand the *difference between an "inside job" and that "someone from the inside assisting or providing info that may be useful to the terrorists".* Just because some airmen assisted when the terrorists attacked Musharraf in a suicide attack or just because Dr Usman (a former nursing in the Army) helped planned the GHQ attack would NOT automatically mean that these acts were an inside job, for sake of crying out loud!!



'inside job' is short for what u r suggesting - no one is suggesting complicity of the High Command in this act!


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## Hindustani

*Contradictions emerge in accounts of Pakistan raid​*
By MOHAMMAD FAROOQ and CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Mohammad Farooq And Chris Brummitt, Associated Press  1 hr 1 min ago
KARACHI, Pakistan  Pakistani police say up to 12 militants were involved in the 18-hour attack on a naval base in Pakistan's largest city.

Tuesday's police account contradicts those by the government and the navy, which earlier said there were six assailants. The discrepancy adds to the questions surrounding Sunday's brazen raid by Islamist militants on the base in the port city of Karachi.

The Taliban said the attack was to avenge Osama bin Laden's killing.

The police account is part of an initial case report into the assault. Such reports are a formal step in any police investigation in Pakistan.

Local police chief Shahrukh Khan says the report was written after consultation with a navy officer.

The navy declined to comment.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP)  Pakistani commandos recaptured a major naval base from Taliban attackers after a bloody and humiliating 18-hour standoff that raised questions about militant infiltration in the security services and the safety of the volatile country's nuclear warheads.

The unusually brazen assault, which the Taliban said was to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, was a reminder that the Pakistanis are catching blame from both sides in the aftermath of the May 2 raid by U.S. commandos.

While Americans have accused elements in the Pakistani security services of having sheltered bin Laden in the military town of Abbottabad, the Taliban and al-Qaida fault the army for its level of cooperation with the Americans. It was the third purported revenge strike in Pakistan since bin Laden's death.

After initially estimating that 15 insurgents were involved in the attack that began late Sunday in the country's commercial capital, Karachi, officials said just six heavily armed, black-clad assailants penetrated into the heart of the Naval Station Mehran after cutting through wire in a quiet section of its eastern perimeter.

The militants destroyed two U.S.-supplied surveillance aircraft and killed at least five navy officers, two paramilitary rangers and three firefighters. Six Americans and 11 Chinese aviation engineers escaped unharmed, authorities said.

Four attackers were killed  one apparently blew himself up  but two managed to escape, said Pakistan Navy chief Nauman Bashir.

After blowing up the aircraft, causing huge fires that lit up the night sky and sent black smoke above the city of 18 million people, the insurgents inside the base managed to evade death or capture into Monday by splitting up and firing on marines and commandos sent to catch them.

Toward early afternoon, the militants were holed up in an office building as navy helicopters flew over the base, and snipers were seen on a runway control tower. A final crack of automatic weapon fire rang out, and the navy soon declared victory.

"Thanks be to God, the base is cleared and the operation is over," said navy spokesman Irfan ul Haq.

Commandos leaving the complex flashed victory signs to reporters.

The base, the home of the Pakistan Navy's air arm, is part of the much larger Faisal air base, and is surrounded by residential and commercial areas. It is about six miles (10 kilometers) from the city's international airport. 

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said the attackers were aged between 20 and 25 and the plot was hatched in the Waziristan area close to Afghanistan, from where most of the attackers inside Pakistan  and many in Afghanistan  are believed to train and get shelter. 

He showed a picture he took with his cell phone of a dead fighter lying bloodied on the grass. He said the attackers were dressed in black  presumably to avoid detection at night  and looked "like the Star Wars characters." 

That the attackers managed to infiltrate so deep into the high-security base led to speculation they may have had inside information or assistance. The base is surrounded by barbed-wire topped walls and dotted with sentry points and cameras. 

The military is Pakistan's most powerful institution, but it too has been infected by the anti-Americanism and Islamism coursing through the country over the last 10 years, especially in its lower ranks. The unilateral U.S. raid against bin Laden exacerbated this anger among many soldiers, who saw it as a violation of sovereignty as well as a sign that Pakistani authorities could not be trusted. 

The Pakistani Taliban, an al-Qaida-allied group blamed for hundreds of attacks since 2007, claimed responsibility for the assault on the naval base. 

"Sheik Osama bin Laden was a very valuable person and even if we kill thousands of enemies it will not be sufficient revenge," said spokesman Ahsanullah Ahsan in a phone call to reporters. "We also want to harm the military, which is secular and supportive to the Americans but unable to protect either the land or people of Pakistan or Islam." 

Al-Qaida and Taliban militants seek to replace Pakistan's secular, American-backed leaders with hardline Islamist rule. 

Although Pakistan is battling some insurgents in the northwest close to the Afghan border, it has also been accused of fatally hampering that fight by tolerating others it believes serves its interests in Afghanistan and India. That has fueled suspicion that members of the security services helped shelter bin Laden, who was previously assumed to be living in caves near the Afghan border. 

Malik and Bashir hinted that the militants in Sunday's attack had help from abroad, presumably a reference to India, the country's traditional enemy. Such accusations are often heard after high-profile militant attacks, but no evidence is presented. 

The charges  repeated by retired generals on talk shows  reflect sentiment in Pakistan over the nature of the enemy. Many prefer to believe conspiracy theories holding India, America and Israel as the country's biggest threat  not fellow Pakistani Muslims who claim responsibility for the strikes. 

For those who think this way, the American raid on bin Laden and the militant raid on the base can be conflated. 

"After the Osama bin Laden death and now this attack, you see the enemies are after our national assets," Malik said. "They had rocket launchers which no ordinary terrorists can have," he said. "That means they are being energized from somewhere." 

In October 2009, militants besieged army headquarters in Rawalpindi close to the capital for 22 hours. At least one former member of the security forces, an army nurse, took part in that attack. 

"We know that the Pakistan security establishment has been penetrated by jihadists," said Kamran Bokhari, an analyst with STRATFOR, a private security think tank in Austin, Texas. "There is ample evidence to show this. Are there such people inside the nuclear establishment? One can never rule out the possibility." 

Pakistan does not reveal where it keeps its nuclear weapons. The Mehran base is 15 miles from Masroor air base, the country's biggest, and a rumored home to some nuclear weapons. 

Still, Kamran and other experts said nuclear facilities are much better protected than regular military bases, even the army headquarters in Rawalpindi. And that attacking a naval facility is vastly easier than sending militants into a base and expecting them to get out with nuclear material. 

"For Pakistan, the nukes are the most prized possession of the country. It is going to take much more than 15 to 20 men to get them," Kamran said. 

___ 



Contradictions emerge in accounts of Pakistan raid - Yahoo! News


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## desioptimist

Santro said:


> Yes, we are really poor.. our folks dont wear three piece dinner suits to work in 42 C heat..
> casual is us..
> 
> Somehow i get the feeling he still feels better than the guy with the ironed , starched uniform seen on paramilitary forces to our east.
> 
> Sort of reply you deserve anyway..



It is not about poverty. If you are carrying heavy weapons, you are dealing with similarly armed opponents, should not you be better protected?
Nothing wrong with T shirt though. They look sexy.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

All-Green said:


> I guess it is uncharacteristic of me but the way i see it...we need to sacrifice some people even if not guilty of personal failure but failure due to treachery of others.
> Just to set an example that if it happens on your watch...it is indeed a failure. In case that we believe the claims that there was no inside hand, then it is even more critical to punish the entire chain of command which was handling security&#8230;right to the top commander.
> This accountability and shame should start from the base commander himself. He may be a good guy but does not matter anymore.
> 
> After all, there is a limit to how much we should tolerate in way of brazen attacks amidst military facilities where the terrorists have a lot of know how where and when to strike and have ample munitions stored conveniently to carry on fighting for many many hours.
> Surely the boot needs to be given to certain people and a very clear message needs to be sent to the generals, officers and soldiers...nothing shall go unpunished and it shall start from top.
> The soldiers look upto their officers who look upto their generals.
> The respect needs to be earned and can be lost when such things happen and no heads are rolled.
> 
> The command is supposed to own its mistakes and not disown its failure by singing praises of training and advanced tactics used by the terrorists.
> We are at war here after all; we are supposed to be facing a determined enemy.
> Instead of analyzing our own mistakes we make the enemy seem 10 times stronger and demoralize the soldiers and the nation who give too much respect to these rabid dogs.
> 
> The admiral is not alone in this attitude and that is what worries me.
> Is the admiral not following suite here because he has seen other failures which went unpunished?
> 
> Sure there were indeed investigations and punishments on a lower level but certainly there has been no senior commander who has yet been sacrificed to ensure that the attitude becomes much more unforgiving towards such negligence.
> Would a few high level court martials/resignations over GHQ or Abbottabad not have at least created an environment where there is no shyness in promising punishment for those whose negligence or support resulted in a disaster?
> 
> Till heads are not rolling, we shall not see the leaders openly embracing the truth in front of the nation.
> I think Military leadership has to set an example of accountability after these series of breaches in our defense. We all need a clear policy defined by our leadership based on ground realities which they should share with us. With civilian and military leadership both defending their decisions and stances we shall not have any strategy shift.
> I hope the military uses these breaches to highlight not only its own shortfalls but also the many reasons why this is happening&#8230;throw the ball in the court of civilian leadership and ask them why there is no accountability of support network while military is sent to fight the terrorists. Do raise the question that if on one hand our provincial ministers meet the outlawed and banned outfits which have actually joined up with TTP&#8230;how we can achieve clarity about who is the enemy?
> Why should we expect that there shall be no split within nation or military if the leadership has not qualified the enemy?
> I hope the military leadership realizes that it can indeed save Pakistan but it shall have to start by setting its own house in order and using these measures to drive the political leadership into a corner by demanding a clear cut national policy which the military and ISI have to follow regarding this phenomena.
> TTP is only strong because we are shy to admit that it has some supporters which walk free...
> TTP is only strong because they are sitting on the drug and major smuggling routes and have absorbed all the criminal syndicates to give rise to an uber terrorist mafia which is earning a lot of black money and is also a mercenary force for hire...
> 
> TTP can be eliminated but for that we need an approach where all the organs of this mafia are targeted.
> 
> *Clean up the military front via military actions.*
> I disagree with Imran Khan here despite always supporting him as a good guy.
> He said the same right after Buner operation was launched...yet had we sent him to negotiate with the TTP he would have been butchered by them as well. In this he is not yet completely aware of the power these people hold via twisting Islam.
> You need to realize what TTP stands for
> To mix them with our own people and look for dialogue is the mistake that has killed thousands of Pakistanis and given rise to their credibility.
> We should realize that when you talk with TTP and appoint clerics like Sufi Muhammad as middle men, they are usually able to associate more with each other than with Pakistan and us poor Pakistanis...this is evident when Fazlullah was talked to by Sufi Muhammad and despite Pakistani state bending over...the rascals of TTP instead gloated and demanded more and more....they are power hungry monsters who feed on a twisted religious mentality...they can never ever welcome any stability, development and peace which brings mental growth and maturity.
> The clerics are mostly sympathetic to TTP ideology and are certainly not bothered with Pakistan as much as their own power base in the name of Islam...they have a business case with or without Pakistan since by twisting the peoples thoughts their hold over the people is strong.
> Actually a destabilized Pakistan suits them since the more chaos there is, the less education and lesser the prospects of a normal life for youngsters....a most fertile ground for hate based propaganda to take root in young minds in the name of religion.
> To say that no military action is required is indeed folly and i think this is where Imran Khan is wrong.
> However to say that military action alone is the solution is not something i am saying.
> The only approach is to use military where the militants are well entrenched and then bring in law enforcement and enforce the law instead of socializing with those elements who are political players since they have influence on the terrorists to some extent...
> sorry but this is not something i can call as a strategic dialogue...we do this from the wrong perspective and count on these quasi terrorist sympathizers to negotiate some truce.
> This is how we delegated our authority to TTP...
> This is the lesson that the martyrdom of many Pakistanis in Swat taught us...never trust the clerics and the Mullahs to help stabilize Pakistan.
> They opposed its creation and are not much bothered about it.
> There is no dialogue with TTP as it is a criminal/terrorist franchise and any law shall be most unwelcome news for it.
> 
> How much more can we tolerate outlaws?
> 
> *Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings*
> This should include targeting the sectarian killing schools of religious thought which have a strong base in Punjab and still have strong political ties with PML-N...this can be done by law enforcement agencies....honestly!
> However when law minister of Punjab socializes with lashker e Jhangvi, i am sure it is not about lacking capability but lacking intent due to other motivations!
> Prosecution of the ones in charge of hate filled lashkars is absolutely necessary to eliminate the violence and the atmosphere in which young minds are brainwashed by clerics and taught about heavenly merits of hating other sects due to their flawed Islam ...certainly a most twisted ideology but only condemned in carefully guarded words...never in action.
> 
> *Create an atmosphere where hate spewing people are held accountable*
> We should try all those in courts who create unrest by promoting hate and violence in the name of religion, sect, creed, ethnicity etc.
> Tolerating such goons is what has caused our society to degenerate to this level, we need to take such things deadly serious.
> 
> Our civilian and military leadership needs to own their mistakes and set examples.
> If they fail to do so then we should come in the streets...but not under a counter ideology where we want a different system...certainly not now when all such counter ideologies are owned by dodgy characters which are being supported by different hands to gain leverage.
> We first need to work towards a more aware society which accepts the flaws instead of just giving into conspiracy theories in order to jump into the arms of any particular camp.
> Be patient my friends...we can have any system we want and certainly laws can be modified but our problem is not the system but selective implementation of laws!
> Why should we cry Islamic system and then see TTP hijacking it?
> Let us cry for justice, accountability and education.
> These are the things that all the enemies of Pakistan are shy of and all the well wishers of Pakistan want.
> Let us first get some values back in our country and improve our social awareness.
> 
> Do understand that today we need to implement a system...there are many things which are right in the current system but due to lack of implementation they are rendered useless.
> Let us work with the system we have and first use our strength to change the corrupt and inefficient faces and replace them with the clean ones who have seen that any major vice is punished by a socially aware Pakistani nation.
> 
> If you say that in Islamic system the rulers are supposed to be good men then please analyze what you are saying...Pakistani constitution is not un-Islamic and even in our constitution one cannot hold office if one is of bad repute even...then is it fault of our system that corruption is rampant?
> Sure we can improve the system and introduce new laws in tune with developing realities!
> Sure, it may well be that a true Islamic system is indeed something that can bring great dividends for Pakistan.
> But is the current scenario due to a failure of system or a failure of system implementation?
> 
> Can the any system including an Islamic system not fail if implemented wrongly?
> Yes it can, remember Taliban and how they derailed and focused their energies on some really pathetic things like mandatory beards etc.?
> Remember how their Islam did not tolerate others (Hazara Shias) Islam?
> Do we really want to give these people legitimacy?
> Why not clean all the crazies and denounce them so that after 10-20 years the people learn to segregate between the khariji terrorist ideology of a twisted Islam and truly Islamic values which are indeed worthy of working towards and implementing.
> Let us also acknowledge the complete set of problems.
> 
> The current dilemma we face internally is because people have hijacked Pakistan and its identity in the name of their brand of Islam which is more like the Islam of Kharijis than of any sane person...however this is the sad truth.
> Whether my Pakistani brothers want democracy or a modern Islamic system (unlike the stupid and barbaric version of any Taliban)...they need to see this Khariji ideology for what it is...the number one enemy of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
> If you implement democracy then the holier than thou clerics and militants will say it is Un-Islamic; on the other hand if you implement the best Islamic system they will still brand it as a conspiracy against the true Islam and a sham.
> 
> We gave them Sharia laws in Swat and after few days when the Sharia courts started announcing punishments for the Taliban who had captured property of others or were harassing others, the Taliban suddenly wanted more and were not satisfied with the Sharia...
> Of course why would they be satisfied with any Law which holds them accountable like ordinary men?
> 
> My Pakistani brothers and sisters...please stop being influenced by different sects and camps which only end up dividing us and harming Pakistan.
> We have to stop harping the tune of others and need to realize that our collective goal is to get a Pakistan where people are held accountable and there is justice and fair play...which lead to true strength.
> This needs not just education but a collective conscience which we need to build ourselves.
> A social awareness by virtue of which our people are conscious enough to not let anyone harm Pakistan whether in name of Islam, liberalism, ethnicity or any other basis.
> 
> We need to focus on the lofty values which are indeed the foundation of any good system...justice, accountability, law and order!
> When you have a society where there are at least some values that are good...you can build it further and tailor it more towards your finer needs.
> 
> However today, let us come together and draw a line where anyone who is harming Pakistan and wants to promote violence and intolerance is branded as our enemy instead of being honored with a cult following.
> Let us unite on some primary things and help bring stability back to the motherland.
> When the dust settles and we achieve normalcy, let us work peacefully towards whatever direction we want Pakistan to take.
> Let us unify in promoting some values which we all want and let us back it up with our voices and presence in the streets if the leadership fails us.
> Let us be much more vocal and active in denouncing all the flaws and errors made so that the rulers and leaders are checked and an environment conducive for positive changes is created.
> Let us love Pakistan and protect it from all enemies whether internal or external.


 
Sir Jee all of this is fine... but there is no way on earth and the heavens that the current establishment both civilian and military will deliver justice to this nation... so we can pray till Qiyamat it is not going to change anything... Hard times give rise to emotions and emotions without thinking can be very dangerous and self harming... What we need is to take the time to check out a full plan of economics and political reform (mind you outside the box... if you try to sort out the system by remaining inside the system, you ll stay stuck)... We are fast running out of options... The reason why our enemies are becoming so strong is because we are showing our countrymen that we have no conscience left inside us... If you really want people to come together and cover your back, then you need to start with some justice at home... How about grabbing Musharaf and hanging him till death for the crime of NRO/ allowing America bases inside Pakistan??... putting an end to drone strikes?? getting rid of all these corrupt political parties and politicians??... showing secularism and secularists for what they actually are??... a big bad and epic failure in context of our country... Unless you have a radically different approach to do things from now on, well no one is happy in the Pakistan of today, except maybe Ghaddari/Gillani... and I dont see it changing otherwise... 

All of you will be called upon to give sacrifices... be ready is all I can say...


----------



## LEGENDARY WARRIOR

MumbaiIndians said:


> From here, I can see that Pakistanis abroad have no interests in well-being of Pakistan or its people. They are more worried about 'pride'.
> 
> If you had so much interests and future of Pakistan in your minds, you would never push Pakistan into anti-India mode. Its a big shame that you guys are like those Indian americans who keep whining about non-action of Indian Government after 26/11 terror attack but they shut their mouth when someone asks, "when you are coming back to India and work here for home company?".
> 
> Seriously, its time for you non-resident Pakistanis to stop this sillyness of forwarding foreign agendas of creating tensions in region. The same advice which I give to Indian american fools.


 

for once please keep india out of this. Where did india come in this?? You have nuts head. .


----------



## desioptimist

Hindustani said:


> *Contradictions emerge in accounts of Pakistan raid​*
> [/url]


 
Fog of war?


----------



## niaz

All-Green said:


> I guess it is uncharacteristic of me but the way i see it...we need to sacrifice some people even if not guilty of personal failure but failure due to treachery of others.
> Just to set an example that if it happens on your watch...it is indeed a failure. In case that we believe the claims that there was no inside hand, then it is even more critical to punish the entire chain of command which was handling security&#8230;right to the top commander.
> This accountability and shame should start from the base commander himself. He may be a good guy but does not matter anymore.
> 
> After all, there is a limit to how much we should tolerate in way of brazen attacks amidst military facilities where the terrorists have a lot of know how where and when to strike and have ample munitions stored conveniently to carry on fighting for many many hours.
> Surely the boot needs to be given to certain people and a very clear message needs to be sent to the generals, officers and soldiers...nothing shall go unpunished and it shall start from top.
> The soldiers look upto their officers who look upto their generals.
> The respect needs to be earned and can be lost when such things happen and no heads are rolled.
> 
> The command is supposed to own its mistakes and not disown its failure by singing praises of training and advanced tactics used by the terrorists.
> We are at war here after all; we are supposed to be facing a determined enemy.
> Instead of analyzing our own mistakes we make the enemy seem 10 times stronger and demoralize the soldiers and the nation who give too much respect to these rabid dogs.
> 
> The admiral is not alone in this attitude and that is what worries me.
> Is the admiral not following suite here because he has seen other failures which went unpunished?
> 
> Sure there were indeed investigations and punishments on a lower level but certainly there has been no senior commander who has yet been sacrificed to ensure that the attitude becomes much more unforgiving towards such negligence.
> Would a few high level court martials/resignations over GHQ or Abbottabad not have at least created an environment where there is no shyness in promising punishment for those whose negligence or support resulted in a disaster?
> 
> Till heads are not rolling, we shall not see the leaders openly embracing the truth in front of the nation.
> I think Military leadership has to set an example of accountability after these series of breaches in our defense. We all need a clear policy defined by our leadership based on ground realities which they should share with us. With civilian and military leadership both defending their decisions and stances we shall not have any strategy shift.
> I hope the military uses these breaches to highlight not only its own shortfalls but also the many reasons why this is happening&#8230;throw the ball in the court of civilian leadership and ask them why there is no accountability of support network while military is sent to fight the terrorists. Do raise the question that if on one hand our provincial ministers meet the outlawed and banned outfits which have actually joined up with TTP&#8230;how we can achieve clarity about who is the enemy?
> Why should we expect that there shall be no split within nation or military if the leadership has not qualified the enemy?
> I hope the military leadership realizes that it can indeed save Pakistan but it shall have to start by setting its own house in order and using these measures to drive the political leadership into a corner by demanding a clear cut national policy which the military and ISI have to follow regarding this phenomena.
> TTP is only strong because we are shy to admit that it has some supporters which walk free...
> TTP is only strong because they are sitting on the drug and major smuggling routes and have absorbed all the criminal syndicates to give rise to an uber terrorist mafia which is earning a lot of black money and is also a mercenary force for hire...
> 
> TTP can be eliminated but for that we need an approach where all the organs of this mafia are targeted.
> 
> *Clean up the military front via military actions.*
> I disagree with Imran Khan here despite always supporting him as a good guy.
> He said the same right after Buner operation was launched...yet had we sent him to negotiate with the TTP he would have been butchered by them as well. In this he is not yet completely aware of the power these people hold via twisting Islam.
> You need to realize what TTP stands for
> To mix them with our own people and look for dialogue is the mistake that has killed thousands of Pakistanis and given rise to their credibility.
> We should realize that when you talk with TTP and appoint clerics like Sufi Muhammad as middle men, they are usually able to associate more with each other than with Pakistan and us poor Pakistanis...this is evident when Fazlullah was talked to by Sufi Muhammad and despite Pakistani state bending over...the rascals of TTP instead gloated and demanded more and more....they are power hungry monsters who feed on a twisted religious mentality...they can never ever welcome any stability, development and peace which brings mental growth and maturity.
> The clerics are mostly sympathetic to TTP ideology and are certainly not bothered with Pakistan as much as their own power base in the name of Islam...they have a business case with or without Pakistan since by twisting the peoples thoughts their hold over the people is strong.
> Actually a destabilized Pakistan suits them since the more chaos there is, the less education and lesser the prospects of a normal life for youngsters....a most fertile ground for hate based propaganda to take root in young minds in the name of religion.
> To say that no military action is required is indeed folly and i think this is where Imran Khan is wrong.
> However to say that military action alone is the solution is not something i am saying.
> The only approach is to use military where the militants are well entrenched and then bring in law enforcement and enforce the law instead of socializing with those elements who are political players since they have influence on the terrorists to some extent...
> sorry but this is not something i can call as a strategic dialogue...we do this from the wrong perspective and count on these quasi terrorist sympathizers to negotiate some truce.
> This is how we delegated our authority to TTP...
> This is the lesson that the martyrdom of many Pakistanis in Swat taught us...never trust the clerics and the Mullahs to help stabilize Pakistan.
> They opposed its creation and are not much bothered about it.
> There is no dialogue with TTP as it is a criminal/terrorist franchise and any law shall be most unwelcome news for it.
> 
> How much more can we tolerate outlaws?
> 
> *Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings*
> This should include targeting the sectarian killing schools of religious thought which have a strong base in Punjab and still have strong political ties with PML-N...this can be done by law enforcement agencies....honestly!
> However when law minister of Punjab socializes with lashker e Jhangvi, i am sure it is not about lacking capability but lacking intent due to other motivations!
> Prosecution of the ones in charge of hate filled lashkars is absolutely necessary to eliminate the violence and the atmosphere in which young minds are brainwashed by clerics and taught about heavenly merits of hating other sects due to their flawed Islam ...certainly a most twisted ideology but only condemned in carefully guarded words...never in action.
> 
> *Create an atmosphere where hate spewing people are held accountable*
> We should try all those in courts who create unrest by promoting hate and violence in the name of religion, sect, creed, ethnicity etc.
> Tolerating such goons is what has caused our society to degenerate to this level, we need to take such things deadly serious.
> 
> Our civilian and military leadership needs to own their mistakes and set examples.
> If they fail to do so then we should come in the streets...but not under a counter ideology where we want a different system...certainly not now when all such counter ideologies are owned by dodgy characters which are being supported by different hands to gain leverage.
> We first need to work towards a more aware society which accepts the flaws instead of just giving into conspiracy theories in order to jump into the arms of any particular camp.
> Be patient my friends...we can have any system we want and certainly laws can be modified but our problem is not the system but selective implementation of laws!
> Why should we cry Islamic system and then see TTP hijacking it?
> Let us cry for justice, accountability and education.
> These are the things that all the enemies of Pakistan are shy of and all the well wishers of Pakistan want.
> Let us first get some values back in our country and improve our social awareness.
> 
> Do understand that today we need to implement a system...there are many things which are right in the current system but due to lack of implementation they are rendered useless.
> Let us work with the system we have and first use our strength to change the corrupt and inefficient faces and replace them with the clean ones who have seen that any major vice is punished by a socially aware Pakistani nation.
> 
> If you say that in Islamic system the rulers are supposed to be good men then please analyze what you are saying...Pakistani constitution is not un-Islamic and even in our constitution one cannot hold office if one is of bad repute even...then is it fault of our system that corruption is rampant?
> Sure we can improve the system and introduce new laws in tune with developing realities!
> Sure, it may well be that a true Islamic system is indeed something that can bring great dividends for Pakistan.
> But is the current scenario due to a failure of system or a failure of system implementation?
> 
> Can the any system including an Islamic system not fail if implemented wrongly?
> Yes it can, remember Taliban and how they derailed and focused their energies on some really pathetic things like mandatory beards etc.?
> Remember how their Islam did not tolerate others (Hazara Shias) Islam?
> Do we really want to give these people legitimacy?
> Why not clean all the crazies and denounce them so that after 10-20 years the people learn to segregate between the khariji terrorist ideology of a twisted Islam and truly Islamic values which are indeed worthy of working towards and implementing.
> Let us also acknowledge the complete set of problems.
> 
> The current dilemma we face internally is because people have hijacked Pakistan and its identity in the name of their brand of Islam which is more like the Islam of Kharijis than of any sane person...however this is the sad truth.
> Whether my Pakistani brothers want democracy or a modern Islamic system (unlike the stupid and barbaric version of any Taliban)...they need to see this Khariji ideology for what it is...the number one enemy of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
> If you implement democracy then the holier than thou clerics and militants will say it is Un-Islamic; on the other hand if you implement the best Islamic system they will still brand it as a conspiracy against the true Islam and a sham.
> 
> We gave them Sharia laws in Swat and after few days when the Sharia courts started announcing punishments for the Taliban who had captured property of others or were harassing others, the Taliban suddenly wanted more and were not satisfied with the Sharia...
> Of course why would they be satisfied with any Law which holds them accountable like ordinary men?
> 
> My Pakistani brothers and sisters...please stop being influenced by different sects and camps which only end up dividing us and harming Pakistan.
> We have to stop harping the tune of others and need to realize that our collective goal is to get a Pakistan where people are held accountable and there is justice and fair play...which lead to true strength.
> This needs not just education but a collective conscience which we need to build ourselves.
> A social awareness by virtue of which our people are conscious enough to not let anyone harm Pakistan whether in name of Islam, liberalism, ethnicity or any other basis.
> 
> We need to focus on the lofty values which are indeed the foundation of any good system...justice, accountability, law and order!
> When you have a society where there are at least some values that are good...you can build it further and tailor it more towards your finer needs.
> 
> However today, let us come together and draw a line where anyone who is harming Pakistan and wants to promote violence and intolerance is branded as our enemy instead of being honored with a cult following.
> Let us unite on some primary things and help bring stability back to the motherland.
> When the dust settles and we achieve normalcy, let us work peacefully towards whatever direction we want Pakistan to take.
> Let us unify in promoting some values which we all want and let us back it up with our voices and presence in the streets if the leadership fails us.
> Let us be much more vocal and active in denouncing all the flaws and errors made so that the rulers and leaders are checked and an environment conducive for positive changes is created.
> Let us love Pakistan and protect it from all enemies whether internal or external.



Totally agree. However there is a section of Pak society including politicians, media men, MNA's, members of the armed forces and also some members of this forum to whom Pakistan comes a distant second. This group will go to any length towards achieving their goal of establishing a dark age Islamic Emirate in Pakistan. How are you going to convince these naive people to stop providing support and help to the terrorists. 

For them the terrorists are doing Allah's work. None of the things you mention takes them to heaven whereas helping the terrorists does.

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## VelocuR

When will Pakistan Army including 180 million population WAR against North and South Wazirisktan ???


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## Roybot

Has there been any statements issued by the President or the Prime minister?


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## Pioneerfirst

ramu said:


> According to military officials and intelligence about 10-12 terrorists laced with sophisticated weapons and grenades entered PNS Mehran PAF Museum.
> 
> Does this mean 6-8 terrorists escaped? not good ...



The number of terrorist is still not clear,The type of resistant and firing was not a work of 6 people.
Can six people carry this huge amount of weapons and jump 10' wall?
After it was disclosed,always preferance is to cordon off the area,but still they escapped????
There may have been some terrorist captured and is being kept secret.As Pakistan did after arresting some Al-Qaida and Taliban figures and disclosed after weeks when investigation was finished.


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## Hindustani

desioptimist said:


> Fog of war?


 
Perhaps.. let's wait and see..


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## MumbaiIndians

It is in US+European interests to keep Pakistan boiling and worsen the regional security situation.

It helps their own industries. India buying more heavy and bigger weapons in hurry.

China is also happy. Throw a few JF-17 and makes India spend even more on security.

ISI+Pak-Army is also happy, free weapons, free money. But losers are people of this region.


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## SQ8

desioptimist said:


> It is not about poverty. If you are carrying heavy weapons, you are dealing with similarly armed opponents, should not you be better protected?
> Nothing wrong with T shirt though. They look sexy.


 
When you already have other numerous highly trained forces equipped with the necessary equipment.. and it will be them taking on the terrorists .. and this guy is only doing the third tier perimeter watch.. 
you still want to equip him with 100000 lac worth of equipment??


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## Sky_123

RaptorRX707 said:


> When will Pakistan Army including 180 million population WAR against North and South Wazirisktan ???


 
Now Army+Rangers+Police should start operation against all Jehadies terrorists and clear Pak from these elements.


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## T-Faz

niaz said:


> Totally agree. However there is a section of Pak society including politicians, media men, MNA's, members of the armed forces and also some members of this column to whom Pakistan comes a distant second. *This group will go to any length towards achieving their goal of establishing a dark age Islamic Emirate in Pakistan. How are you going to convince these naive people to stop providing support and help to these terrorists. *
> 
> For them the terrorists are doing Allah's work. None of the things you mention takes them to heaven whereas helping the terrorists does.


 
This is the problem when religion and state are fused together and as this religion is not only found within this nation, the foreign variations can influence and perverse the teachings of religion.

Initially the country has to limit the influence of religion and religious parties to put an end to this madness. Look at the harm that has been caused by all this and to this day a lot of people openly support the terrorists because they are apparently doing gods work.

When you have entire generations who grew up with violent variations of religion, this had to occur but now is the time to take harsh action against the perpetrators.

Its Pakistan first and Pakistan alone, any one who disagrees should be removed or held out of important positions.

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## Hammy007

niaz said:


> Totally agree. However there is a section of Pak society including politicians, media men, MNA's, members of the armed forces and also some members of this column to whom Pakistan comes a distant second. This group will go to any length towards achieving their goal of establishing a dark age Islamic Emirate in Pakistan. How are you going to convince these naive people to stop providing support and help to these terrorists.
> 
> For them the terrorists are doing Allah's work. None of the things you mention takes them to heaven whereas helping the terrorists does.


 
with guy as intelligent as you,, i hope zardari makes you his personal advisor, or i must say obama makes you his personal advisor, so that you can shower your divine wisdom, any crime scene will no need any investigators, detectives and the medical team responsible to post mortem the bodies, the defence analysts as within 2 seconds you can tell who is responsible and what should be done

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## Xeric

@AG

For this to happen we first have to establish that there was indeed a serious security lapse on the part of those who commanded the Naval Base. i am not ruling out the possibility of a sleeping security guard/sentry/CCTV room NCO etc, but then primarily it is because of the paucity of resources. i would not divulge more into this as talking about the security arrangements we have in place in our cantts/bases would not be a bright thing to do. Only that, i may like to have the entire fence around the cantt electrified, but i may not be able to do that, i may want to shift the entire base (for instance the GHQ) to a more defendable and 'out of reach' place, but i may not be able to do that, i may like to employed a battalion plus for the round the clock out cordon of a military installation but then i may not have enough troops for the purpose, i may like to have three check posts ahead of my main check post so that if some bugger wants to blow himself up, he can do it at the first check post thus limiting the quantum of damage, but then either i may not have enough resources at my disposal for the purpose or that the sheer lack of space, crowdiness of the area and the installation being amidst a huge city or because my initiative may bother the lazy civilian traffic around the base etc may bar me from and so on and so forth.

But then you are also correct in saying that unless a few at the top are not slaughtered via court martials and sacking (this includes both the military and civilians), things might to start rolling in the right direction (the direction that ask us to be very very very careful regarding the security of our military installations).

i agree that there's a need of a hard awakening among our leadership, suicide attacks and armed assaults have failed to do that, so may be a few court martials, resignations and sackings might get the job done.

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## Hammy007

Sky_123 said:


> Now Army+Rangers+Police should start operation against all Jehadies terrorists and clear Pak from these elements.


 
if you are so willing, go there and be the first one to sacrifice your lives and your family lives and stop lecturing others thanks


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## S.M.R

harpoon said:


> Did he just rolled off the bed , put on his beret and came to fight terrorists armed to the teeth. Where is his uniform, bullet proof jacket and webbing. I saw in news many of your Ranger soldiers walking around wearing T-Shirts with name RANGER stamped on the back. Is this not their drill uniform. Why are they wearing this in a combat zone. Their SOP kind of sucks.


 
They are not the operational force. These rangers keep doing flag March on Karachi Roads. All rangers vehicles came to the site when they heard firing / blasts.


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## MumbaiIndians

Hammy007 said:


> with guy as intelligent as you,, i hope zardari makes you his personal advisor, or *i must say obama makes you his personal advisor*, so that you can shower your divine wisdom, any crime scene will no need any investigators, detectives and the medical team responsible to post mortem the bodies, the defence analysts as within 2 seconds you can tell who is responsible and what should be done


 
American president doesn't care about people in South Asia. He works for American interests.

Come out of your lala-land.


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## S.M.R

*RANG LAYAY GA SHAHEEDON KA LAHOOOO*

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## T-Faz

MumbaiIndians said:


> American president doesn't care about pople in South Asia. He works for American interests.
> 
> Come out of your lala-land.


 
He has some very prominent advisors for the Pakistan, Afghanistan region including the Iranian born Vali Nasr, prominent journalist Ahmed Rashid and a number of others.

The Americans appoint the best of the best for advisory roles by region and our region is of very high importance.

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## MumbaiIndians

T-Faz said:


> He has some very prominent advisors for the Pakistan, Afghanistan region including the Iranian born Vali Nasr, prominent journalist Ahmed Rashid and a number of others.
> 
> The *Americans appoint the best of the best for advisory roles by region and our region is of very high importance*.


 
America is paying those advisors to secure American interests. 

Its for you to decide, whether you need a counsel or you can stand on our own?


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## T-Faz

MumbaiIndians said:


> America is paying those advisors to secure American interests.
> 
> *Its for you to decide, whether you need a counsel or you can stand on our own?*


 
To secure American interests, they cannot abandon Pakistan.

A Pakistan run by Islamists will be the worst nightmare for this world, these advisors help formulate their future strategy in regards to this region especially Pakistan.

Their approach is very positive though.

FT.com / Comment / Opinion - America must hug Pakistan ever closer



> *The Munir report has been "singled out as the most celebrated 'modernist' expression of backlash against Islamic activism," writes Vali Nasr, an expert on Islam and politics, in 1994's Vanguard of the Islamic Revolution. The report was the last attempt to extricate Islam from Pakistan's politics, writes Nasr, who served as senior advisor to the U.S. special representative to Afghanistan and Pakistan from 2009-2011. But without an alternative source of national cohesion, Islam continues to be used by successive governments as a tool to hold the state together.*



Islam and Politics in Pakistan - Council on Foreign Relations



> *Recently I gave a lecture on Pakistan and Afghanistan to an audience of many hundreds in Chicago. There were some sixty or seventy Pakistani Americans among them. As I walked into the hall, something strange started to happen.*



Cry, the Beloved Country


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## Arjun27

Hammy007 said:


> most of them, yes, south indians dont even look like north indians


 yes bro south indian, east indian and northeast indian al of them hav no or very little similarities wit north nd west Indians.


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## T-Faz

MumbaiIndians said:


> They won't abandon Pakistan. *They will buy it*.


 
They tried, it didn't work.

There are a number of different groups in Pakistan with varying goals, you cannot buy them all, some are not for sale.

The politicians and the army leadership might be but you cannot buy what id not up sale.

If what you say is true, then there will not be a problem now.


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## aks18

xTra said:


> Welcome to the well of conspiracy.


 
everything is conspiracy against you indians . you are the only angels left in this world.


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## ARCHON

Hakimullah mahsud, Omar khalid ,Waliur Rehman Mehsud and Faqir Mohammed are on Indian payroll????? LOL..


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## xTra

aks18 said:


> everything is conspiracy against you indians . you are the only angels left in this world.


No one is angel in this world, but do you still believe India was behind this attack.

I thought it was work of Taliban (Good or Bad whatever you call them.)


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## ARCHON

xTra said:


> No one is angel in this world, but do you still believe India was behind this attack.
> 
> I thought it was work of Taliban (Good or Bad whatever you call them.)


 

They are on Indian payroll. they get their salary from that bank in wasiristhan.


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## MumbaiIndians

aks18 said:


> the attack on the Pc3 orions are only in interest of india they funded used taliban and destroyed out 50% capability of navy by destroying the air crafts talibans have nothing to do with these air crafts cz no air craft was used against them why they didnt attacked on fighter jets who are fu**ing their in operation why not helis used against them.


 
That's a short-sighted analysis and typical Zaid-hamid type of religion infected commentary.

Its in western+european(NATO) interests to keep region boiling, so that India buys more arms.

Attack on orions, will push Pak towards China. More weapons, nukes from China. India will follow suit - more MICA missiles from europe.


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## aks18

xTra said:


> No one is angel in this world, but do you still believe India was behind this attack.
> 
> I thought it was work of Taliban (Good or Bad whatever you call them.)


 

i still believe indians are behind these attacks supporting talibans by their agencies , destroying pc3 orian were the interest of indians not in talibans interest if talibans wanted army to stop operation against them why they didnt attacked other air bases which got the helis and jets who bomb them in operations ?


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## ARCHON

aks18 said:


> i still believe indians are behind these attacks supporting talibans by their agencies , destroying pc3 orian were the interest of indians not in talibans interest if talibans wanted army to stop operation against them why they didnt attacked other air bases which got the helis and jets who bomb them in operations ?


 

Ask them instead... why should India attack some planes with no weapons like orion.???

You better write some fiction novel... it would be brilliant.


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## aks18

ARCHON said:


> Ask them instead... why should India attack some planes with no weapons like orion.???
> 
> You better write some fiction novel... it would be brilliant.


 

lol plane with no weapon planes are destroyed where to use weapons now ?? in Ak47 riffles ??? by destroying these planes 50% of our naval capability is downed . navy have nothing to do against operation against talibans.


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## alphamale

aks18 said:


> i still believe indians are behind these attacks supporting talibans by their agencies , destroying pc3 orian were the interest of indians not in talibans interest if talibans wanted army to stop operation against them why they didnt attacked other air bases which got the helis and jets who bomb them in operations ?


 
ppl like u in pakistan are the reason why pakistan is falling deep in the troubles. ppl like u always point fingers at others but do not realize that the real problem is in ur home itself . it is ur own ppl who are brainwashed by some so called religious leaders to kill their own countrymen.


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## ARCHON

aks18 said:


> lol plane with no weapon planes are destroyed where to use weapons now ?? in Ak47 riffles ??? by destroying these planes 50% of our naval capability is downed . navy have nothing to do against operation against talibans.


 
orion is a surveilance plane. 

Its hard to accept some loonies came and made quite a show, hence you are looking towards all other options to hide your shame.Everyone knows that. 
So blame India, CIA , Mossad and usual players.


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## alphamale

aks18 said:


> lol plane with no weapon planes are destroyed where to use weapons now ?? in Ak47 riffles ??? by destroying these planes 50% of our naval capability is downed . navy have nothing to do against operation against talibans.


 
even common ppl of pakistan has nothing to do with operation against taliban then why these talibans are killing them. any answer?????????


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## Markus

Orion, though primarily a surveillance plane, can be armed with missiles as well as carry a nuclear payload.


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## aks18

alphamale said:


> ppl like u in pakistan are the reason why pakistan is falling deep in the troubles. ppl like u always point fingers at others but do not realize that the real problem is in ur home itself . it is ur own ppl who are brainwashed by some so called religious leaders to kill their own countrymen.


 

without any foreign help talibans cant attack and most probably you indians are the main problem in this region the day you entered afghanistan pakistan is under huge mess.


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## aks18

alphamale said:


> even common ppl of pakistan has nothing to do with operation against taliban then why these talibans are killing them. any answer?????????


 
pakistan army is made by common pakistanis terrorists want common pakistani to not support pakistan army in operation and dnt even join pak army ,,, all the interest is of india in it .


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## aks18

ARCHON said:


> orion is a surveilance plane.
> 
> Its hard to accept some loonies came and made quite a show, hence you are looking towards all other options to hide your shame.Everyone knows that.
> So blame India, CIA , Mossad and usual players.





just like u ppl cry against pakistan always ?


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## ARCHON

aks18 said:


> without any foreign help talibans cant attack and most probably you indians are the main problem in this region the day you entered afghanistan pakistan is under huge mess.


 
The entire Taliban heads of the present taliban were trained by ur agency along with CIA during afghan days.These guys only knows to fight .
It doesnt matter against whom. Now their enemy is Pakistan and US.India has nothing to do with any of these dramas.Deal with it.


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## ARCHON

aks18 said:


> just like u ppl cry against pakistan always ?


 
We didnt have any attack for quite some time, quite a few years infact. 

We have fortified our borders and any pigs entering will be blasted from earth for sure


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## S.M.R

alphamale said:


> ppl like u in pakistan are the reason why pakistan is falling deep in the troubles. ppl like u always point fingers at others but do not realize that the real problem is in ur home itself . it is ur own ppl who are brainwashed by some so called religious leaders to kill their own countrymen.



so you believe that TTP has done that. As TTP claimed the responsibility. Why dont you believe TTP when they say TTP says Osama alive - GEO.tv


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## aks18

ARCHON said:


> The entire Taliban heads of the present taliban were trained by ur agency along with CIA during afghan days.These guys only knows to fight .
> It doesnt matter against whom. Now their enemy is Pakistan and US.India has nothing to do with any of these dramas.Deal with it.


 

yes thats why ur fkng media is creating propaganda against our nuclear assets now if you have nothing to do with pakistan than stay out of it.


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## ARCHON

aks18 said:


> yes thats why ur fkng media is creating propaganda against our nuclear assets now if you have nothing to do with pakistan than stay out of it.


 
Just our media? look around reports are from around the* world*.


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## alphamale

aks18 said:


> without any foreign help talibans cant attack and most probably you indians are the main problem in this region the day you entered afghanistan pakistan is under huge mess.


 
how can u be that sure ??????? are u a insider???? & most importantly the seeds of the mess in pakistan were sown when taliban was created by both U.S & pakistan way back in 80's.


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## aks18

innocentboy said:


> so you believe that TTP has done that. As TTP claimed the responsibility. Why dont you believe TTP when they say TTP says Osama alive - GEO.tv


 
even these indian says our govt offical durani said india is not supporting terrorists in pakistan ,, if the same person will say that india is supporting terrorists in pakistan these indians will not believe on it than they will ask for sum neutral source ,, every one is pakistan believes now our leaders are sold into hands of our enemies .


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## KALKI

aks18 said:


> i still believe indians are behind these attacks supporting talibans by their agencies , destroying pc3 orian were the interest of indians not in talibans interest if talibans wanted army to stop operation against them why they didnt attacked other air bases which got the helis and jets who bomb them in operations ?


 
I don't understand. When you can procure these P-3C's and F-16's etc. in the name of targetting the terrorists in the war on terror, why can't these same terrorists destroy the planes?

These planes were meant for the War on Terror against the terrorists, right?

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## DelhiDareDevil

Like they say:

"If you grow snakes in your backyard, then you will eventually be bitten by a snake"

But applied to talibans


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## aks18

alphamale said:


> how can u be that sure ??????? are u a insider???? & most importantly the seeds of the mess in pakistan were sown when taliban was created by both U.S & pakistan way back in 80's.


 
yes in 1980 US funded talibans and pakistan also trained them means some powers were backing taliban thats why they damaged Russia in afghanistan ,, now its the same taliban backing by sum other powers most probably india and america to create instability in region so that u can unarm pakistan by attacking on pakistan ,,,, destroyed PC3 orions planes were only usefull against navals targets and against a well established navy .


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## alphamale

innocentboy said:


> so you believe that TTP has done that. As TTP claimed the responsibility. Why dont you believe TTP when they say TTP says Osama alive - GEO.tv


 
whether TTP or anyone else. my point was that ppl of pakistan do not look at real problem or better say don't want to look. firstly reclaim faith of ur own countrymen & then blame others.


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## ARCHON

aks18 said:


> yes in 1980 US funded talibans and pakistan also trained them means some powers were backing taliban thats why they damaged Russia in afghanistan ,, now its the same taliban backing by sum other powers most probably india and america to create instability in region so that u can unarm pakistan by attacking on pakistan ,,,, destroyed PC3 orions planes were only usefull against navals targets and against a well established navy .


 
Ohh after they left your camp, the qued behind other sponsers and India started paying them?

These are citisens from your own region. 

*If India can reach them regularly and can make them on their payroll and give instructions while your military cant even trace them, you better leave your country ASAP.*


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## aks18

iRobot said:


> I don't understand. When you can procure these P-3C's and F-16's etc. in the name of targetting the terrorists in the war on terror, why can't these same terrorists destroy the planes?
> 
> *These planes were meant for the War on Terror against the terrorists*, right?


 

f16s and pc3 were projects are way before the 911 happend ,,, pc3 were targeted which is used for monitoring the arabian sea..


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## S.M.R

aks18 said:


> even these indian says our govt offical durani said india is not supporting terrorists in pakistan ,, if the same person will say that india is supporting terrorists in pakistan these indians will not believe on it than they will ask for sum neutral source ,, every one is pakistan believes now our leaders are sold into hands of our enemies .


 
Selective picking for own whiste blowing.


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## aks18

ARCHON said:


> Ohh after they left your camp, the qued behind other sponsers and India started paying them?
> 
> These are citisens from your own region.
> 
> *If India can reach them regularly and can make them on their payroll and give instructions while your military cant even trace them, you better leave your country ASAP.*


 

so did u left ur country after the mumbai attacks ??


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## ARCHON

alphamale said:


> so u admit that it was the same snake u grown with the help of U.S & now it is biting u both. it was ur fault now u have to deal with it why accusing the third party?? & as far as ur repeated ranting that india was involved & blah blah blah then i can't help u bcoz u have made up ur mind that only & only india is involved in this attack. really can't help u


 
Yes according to him they just changed the recruitment company like in IT.. new job with benefits, more money . 

When they attack Pakistan they cry CIA, RAW. When they attack US they keep silent.


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## S.M.R

alphamale said:


> whether TTP or anyone else. my point was that ppl of pakistan do not look at real problem or better say don't want to look. firstly reclaim faith of ur own countrymen & then blame others.


 
Previously we used to think that these are own people, we need to look into it. But the recent attacks, the way they attacked, forced us to look for things other than emerged in ourselves. Now we can realize which country is most benefited from destruction of Pakistan. You stop training / aiding these bsaterd son of yours, we will not blame you anymore.


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## Paan Singh

pakistani media is ranting about india israel usa .............thats all....
they still are in doubts


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## ARCHON

innocentboy said:


> Previously we used to think that these are own people, we need to look into it. But the recent attacks, the way they attacked, forced us to look for things other than emerged in ourselves. Now we can realize which country is most benefited from destruction of Pakistan. You stop training / aiding these bsaterd son of yours, we will not blame you anymore.


 
What more training they need apart from what they got from you.. every day we hear news of drones strikes from Nato in the region.. are they attacking Indian training centres... 

We have no business with them.. we are not even geographically anywhere near to these scums to give any training .. if training is given in afghanistan will US or NATO allow it , to give training to militants which kill americans??

LOL .. seriously funny guys on internet.
For laughter this site is brilliant.


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## ARCHON

alphamale said:


> @ indian members- plz do not argue with this *aks18* guy. he has nothing to say apart from saying that india is involved. talking facts to him is like


 
Yes.. every second post he repeats India's name as if just woke up from a nightmare.


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## faisaljaffery

They have attacked the major capability of PN which were PC3 Orion Aircrafts used for air to ground / water surviliance.


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## S.M.R

ARCHON said:


> Ohh after they left your camp, the qued behind other sponsers and India started paying them?
> 
> These are citisens from your own region.
> 
> *If India can reach them regularly and can make them on their payroll and give instructions while your military cant even trace them, you better leave your country ASAP.*


 
No they didnt left our camp, rather they are living peacefully in their homes. The TTP is your financed organization in reality. They using the name of militants of soviet, which hardly exist. TTP gets aid from afghanistan where their mother organization 'Taliban' is feeding from the so called consulates established by Indians. Their prime objective is destruction of Pakistan which remains the prime objective of indians since 1947.

On a side note, why India got interested in Afghanistan after entrance of US there?


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## Ahmad

*Contradictions emerge in accounts of naval base raid*

*KARACHI: A police account released Tuesday on the brazen, 18-hour Taliban assault on a Pakistani naval base says there were twice as many attackers as the number claimed by the government and navy, adding to the questions surrounding the deadly incident.*

The attack Sunday in Karachi humiliated Pakistan&#8217;s powerful military establishment and raised concerns about extremist infiltration of security services as well as the safety of the country&#8217;s nuclear warheads. The Pakistani Taliban said they staged the raid to avenge the May 2 killing of Osama bin Laden.

The militants destroyed two US-supplied surveillance aircraft and killed 10 people on the base.

On Monday, after commandos had retaken control of Naval Station Mehran, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said up to six assailants were involved, four of whom were killed and two of whom apparently fled. Although they had earlier estimated the number of militants at between 10 and 15, naval officials also revised their estimate to six attackers.

But police said Tuesday in the &#8220;first information report&#8221; that between 10 to 12 attackers were involved. Local police chief Shahrukh Khan said the report was written after consultation with a navy officer. Such a report is a formal part of opening an investigation into the attack.

A navy spokesman said he was looking into the discrepancy.

Many analysts were surprised that just six attackers could occupy part of the base for such a long time against a force of hundreds of commandos and navy marines. Pakistan security agencies are known to sometimes not give full accounts of terrorism incidents, and often hold suspects for months without informing the public.

The fact that the attackers managed to infiltrate so deep into the high-security base led to speculation they may have had inside information or assistance.


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## Roybot

Did the photos of dead terrorists get released? Apart from the one taken by Rehman Mallik?

Something seems fishy here, could it mean that they were able to kill one terrorist and the rest escaped?


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## ARCHON

innocentboy said:


> No they didnt left our camp, rather they are living peacefully in their homes. The TTP is your financed organization in reality. They using the name of militants of soviet, which hardly exist. TTP gets aid from afghanistan where their mother organization 'Taliban' is feeding from the so called consulates established by Indians. Their prime objective is destruction of Pakistan which remains the prime objective of indians since 1947.
> 
> On a side note, why India got interested in Afghanistan after entrance of US there?


 
Just check the TTP ranks and even the recent videos after OBL.. Dont think they are living peacefully at homes. 
They warned the US in Afghanistan and wants revenge for US led OBL death.

By that logic its *a war between US and INDIA sponsored terrorists* in norther areas...

New story. brilliant.

We had relations before with Afghanistan , they are also in our neighbourhood. Dont you have relations with Bangladesh , srilanka, uganda etc etc .

Its upto countries to choose to have relations.


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## iPhone

roy_gourav said:


> Did the photos of dead terrorists get released? Apart from the one taken by Rehman Mallik?
> 
> Something seems fishy here, could it mean that they were able to kill one terrorist and the rest escaped?


Yep, the rest escaped.


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## DelhiDareDevil

Juice said:


> How many times do people need to be told that the Taliban did not exist in the 80's?


 
They were still being trained up and were low in numbers.


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## Roybot

iPhone said:


> Yep, the rest escaped.


 
You are being sarcastic probably, but the way Rehman Mallik was addressing the media it sounded very vague. He said he saw three dead bodies, and said the fourth is "probably under the debris of a building", and the other 2 "probably escaped". No one seems to be sure. Releasing the photos might clear things up.


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## Juice

aks18 said:


> so what was the name of group you made in afghanistan against russia ?


 
They became the various warring factions that the Taliban fought...including the Northern Alliance


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## RAZA SAHI

I wonder what else is a security breach in the good admiral's dictionary?
Absolutely unacceptable that our High Command is still content with its head buried in the sand.

I guess they are reflecting the same mentality as of the people who are saying that suicide bombings cannot be done by "our people" since no Muslim can do this...for god's sake wake up and let us take on this rabid dog!
The failure to segregate between "our people" and "not our people" shall ofcourse have dire consequences for us as we are witnessing today.

We should investigate the tragedy as a security breach so that we get to the depth of the matter!

To say that it was not a security breach is quite a strange comment at this stage.
In all aspects it was a failure and a security breach!
The admiral should have instead promised that we shall hold a thorough investigation and if there is any evidence of treachery then the perpetrators and all supporters shall be severely dealt with as per military law.
Either way, Pakistan should take this opportunity to launch an operation against the groups responsible, whatever form of support they have provided in this attack on Pakistan...
And i mean "whatever form of support"... 
@All-Green

agreed 100%.


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## DelhiDareDevil

Good work Elmo.


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## xTra

Has government issued any Official Statement on this attack.

All the news are contradictory.

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## All-Green

Xeric said:


> @AG
> 
> For this to happen we first have to establish that there was indeed a serious security lapse on the part of those who commanded the Naval Base. i am not ruling out the possibility of a sleeping security guard/sentry/CCTV room NCO etc, but then primarily it is because of the paucity of resources. i would not divulge more into this as talking about the security arrangements we have in place in our cantts/bases would not be a bright thing to do. Only that, i may like to have the entire fence around the cantt electrified, but i may not be able to do that, i may want to shift the entire base (for instance the GHQ) to a more defendable and 'out of reach' place, but i may not be able to do that, i may like to employed a battalion plus for the round the clock out cordon of a military installation but then i may not have enough troops for the purpose, i may like to have three check posts ahead of my main check post so that if some bugger wants to blow himself up, he can do it at the first check post thus limiting the quantum of damage, but then either i may not have enough resources at my disposal for the purpose or that the sheer lack of space, crowdiness of the area and the installation being amidst a huge city or because my initiative may bother the lazy civilian traffic around the base etc may bar me from and so on and so forth.
> 
> But then you are also correct in saying that unless a few at the top are not slaughtered via court martials and sacking (this includes both the military and civilians), things might to start rolling in the right direction (the direction that ask us to be very very very careful regarding the security of our military installations).
> 
> i agree that there's a need of a hard awakening among our leadership, suicide attacks and armed assaults have failed to do that, so may be a few court martials, resignations and sackings might get the job done.


 
Xeric,

I agree with you and really do sympathize with my military brothers.
The brothers who are daily putting their life on the line to honor their uniform and country despite facing many shortages and inadequacies... yet are let down by nation and leadership in this dark time.
But there is a reason for this let down, right or wrong.

The nation always loved the army and that is why it is so bitter because it feels exposed and let down in these strange times.
The nation is confused and divided since it has been fed so much nonsense over the years, it is difficult to see the truth and that scares the people even more.
To make the nation aware we need leadership to come clean and if the civilian leadership is not setting an example, i would want my army to sacrifice once more for the sake of the nation.

I know that there are already many critics in the ranks who want their leadership to be more clear in its stance.

Let there be some scapegoats who bear the burden of the failure and in its wake let there be a most thorough and dramatic investigation by the high command and agencies which reveal the hundreds of names and places responsible for breeding extremism and intolerance...where the innocent minds are twisted to become hate factories.
Let there be a crackdown on the illegal weapons in possession of these organizations and individuals, just to send a strong message that this is no longer your playing ground.
Let us implement a security blanket where it is not easy for these lashkars to wield AK-47s and stash weapons by the hundreds.

We both agree that military is spread thin and despite the military budget debates...there are shortages because the task is huge and extremely unconventional.
So why not push the non military solution in front of the government?
Even if it means acknowledging strategic mistakes of the past.

Let us pass the list of all these extremist organizations and leaders to the provinces and the interior ministry...let us see how the matter is handled by the civilian leadership.
Let the ISI brief the honorable parliament that we are indeed putting our house in order but here are some actions we want to be taken in order to dismantle the militant networks which are supporting the TTP.
*And for starters, it would not be bad if the Law minister of Punjab stops socializing with terrorists!!!*
Let us expose the PML-N's connections to the extremists so that by the time next elections come, nation is aware of the truth and chooses wisely.
Let us see how the government prosecutes the laskhars.
Let us see who hesitates and supports the terrorists against the military and government.
Let us try to expose the enemies of the state via a much more honest and well thought out approach.

Let there be a clear cut military requirement from the government that these Lashkars need to be eliminated for our sake...
We cannot mingle with and tolerate gun wielding crazies and hope to remain a sane and violence-free society.
The military needs to do all in its power to facilitate this decision making since without military support and backing, it is impossible to take action against such militant factions.
The military of Pakistan has always played a role beyond that of a military and not all of it was negative...it is once more needed for military to help us out of a mess which is not just military in nature.

Let us deal with an iron fist against the support structure of terrorism, instead of sending our boys to a meat grinder all the time, without gaining much in terms of a result!
It is still not too late for us to redefine our strategy.

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## S.M.R

ARCHON said:


> Just check the TTP ranks and even the recent videos after OBL.. Dont think they are living peacefully at homes.
> They warned the US in Afghanistan and wants revenge for US led OBL death.
> 
> By that logic its *a war between US and INDIA sponsored terrorists* in norther areas...
> 
> New story. brilliant.
> 
> We had relations before with Afghanistan , they are also in our neighbourhood. Dont you have relations with Bangladesh , srilanka, uganda etc etc .
> 
> Its upto countries to choose to have relations.


 
Read my post again, as I read the same again thinking that I might have not communicated what i intended to.

Dost, those who were fed by US during soviet war might not exist. TTP has no long history, it is an organization using the name of Militants fighting during soviet War era. Now where this TTP is getting funds and weapon from? Enough evidences have been found during operation Rah e Nijaat / Rah e Raast that the TTP is fully sponsored by Indian from Afghanistan. So Indian connection cannot be ignored in the recent attacks in Pakistan.
Remember the statement of William Burn (US Diplomat) who said that India is training terrorists in Afghanistan and sending them to Pakistan, which was censored by Indian Media.


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## indian dream

Were Pakistan army insiders involved in Karachi attack? - World - DNA


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## Paan Singh

without inside help,attack cant be done........
instead of this,every body ranting about india-israel and usa..
even in ghq attack,insiders were involved,so here is also.


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## All-Green

Prism said:


> without inside help,attack cant be done........
> instead of this,every body ranting about india-israel and usa..
> even in ghq attack,insiders were involved,so here is also.


 
While we are suspecting a failure it can be lack of planning, negligence or an inside hand or all of them.
It also does not rule out the possibility that the operatives were also working for someone other than TTP.

So kindly do not declare with 100% confidence that it is just inside hand, just like those who say with 100% confidence that it is an outside hand.

However, it changes little in context of what needs to be done regarding TTP and direct/indirect support structure.

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## architect_cobb

innocentboy said:


> Read my post again, as I read the same again thinking that I might have not communicated what i intended to.
> 
> Dost, those who were fed by US during soviet war might not exist. TTP has no long history, it is an organization using the name of Militants fighting during soviet War era. Now where this TTP is getting funds and weapon from? Enough evidences have been found during operation Rah e Nijaat / Rah e Raast that the TTP is fully sponsored by Indian from Afghanistan. So Indian connection cannot be ignored in the recent attacks in Pakistan.
> Remember the statement of William Burn (US Diplomat) who said that India is training terrorists in Afghanistan and sending them to Pakistan, which was censored by Indian Media.



Shame on terrorist and taliban sympathizers!!!!

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## footmarks

All-Green said:


> While we are suspecting a failure it can be lack of planning, negligence or an inside hand or all of them.
> It also does not rule out the possibility that the operatives were also working for someone other than TTP.
> 
> So kindly do not declare with 100% confidence that it is just inside hand, just like those who say with 100% confidence that it is an outside hand.


 
Be alarmed, because IF there is an Indian hand in these attacks, this will mean that there are India sympathisers/supporters inside Pakistan Navy..


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## Hulk

Well we hardly come to know the truth in such cases. Speculations and hunch is what replaces truth.


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## EjazR

Apparently the Pakistani Navy used surveliance aircrafts against the Taliban and Navy SSG played major roles in operations like Rah-i-Najat and Rah-i-Raast.

So the claim that Navy did not fight the Taliban is incorrect.

*Before Attack, Pakistan's Navy Boasted of Role in Fight Against Taliban - NYTimes.com*

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## All-Green

footmarks said:


> Be alarmed, because IF there is an Indian hand in these attacks, this will mean that there are India sympathisers/supporters inside Pakistan Navy..


 
Not necessarily that it is a job of many inside supporters but if there is a traitor then he can be sold to anyone and would really not bother about who is paying whom.

Also it can be intelligence sharing by a more advanced organization which guides and trains the recruits from TTP in a mutually beneficial operation targeted against Pakistan.

Still, i strongly feel that TTP is the next Blackwater of the modern world.
A mercenary organization for hire!

We can speculate all we like but it does not rule out any party in this particular episode...
However it also does not change the fact that Pakistan needs to act against all the groups in league with Terrorists via a more refined and uniform approach.


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## footmarks

All-Green said:


> Not necessarily that it is a job of many inside supporters but if there is a traitor then he can be sold to anyone and would really not bother about who is paying whom.
> 
> Also it can be intelligence sharing by a more advanced organization which guides and trains the recruits from TTP in a mutually beneficial operation targeted against Pakistan.
> 
> Still, i strongly feel that TTP is the next Blackwater of the modern world.
> A mercenary organization for hire!
> 
> We can speculate all we like but it does not rule out any party in this particular episode...
> However it also does not change the fact that Pakistan needs to act against all the groups in league with Terrorists via a more refined and uniform approach.


 
I agree that all "possibilities" should be considered while investigating the matter. Ane one of those possibilities is that TTP is a home grown organisation of pakistan and it IS capable of conducting such brazen attacks on their own. Dont strike out that possibility. It might be just one of many possibilities, but its probability of being true is quite high.


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## noksss

Generally why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists in this case 6 terrorists fought with 200 commandos for 16 hours 

out of that 10 commandos and 4 terroists are dead in Mumbai it took 60 hours to kill 10 terrorists with the loss of 2 commandos 

are the terrorists outsmarting the SSG and NSG . Any experts here can answer why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists


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## T-Faz

*How did six Taliban hold off 100 security forces for 16 hours?*​
KARACHI: A Pakistani Navy commando was the first to detect Taliban militants attacking a naval aviation base in the city of Karachi on Sunday night. He was dead within seconds.

The small group of militants, as few as six, who attacked the PNS Mehran naval aviation base in Karachi gave its defenders no time.

*&#8220;You cannot imagine how quick they were,&#8221; said a Pakistani security official who asked not to be named. &#8220;When they entered, one of the Navy commandos saw them and tried to react.&#8221;*

He never got the chance.

*&#8220;It was a single shot in the darkness which took his arm off,&#8221; the official said. &#8220;You can imagine how good they were.&#8221;*

The commando died on the spot.

It was about 10.30pm (1730 GMT) when he died, and the violence didn&#8217;t end until 16 hours later on Monday afternoon.

*The al Qaeda-inspired militants bent on avenging Osama bin Laden&#8217;s death at the hands of US special forces on May 2 killed 10 Pakistani troops and wounded 20.*

*It took about 100 commandos, rangers and marines to kill four militants and recapture the base, further humiliating the military. Two militants are believed to have escaped.*

In just three weeks, the military has been accused of incompetence in failing to stop the US raid that killed bin Laden and complicity in hiding him.
The attack calls into question the military&#8217;s ability to secure the country&#8217;s borders and nuclear weapons.

Many questions

*How did the militants get into one the country&#8217;s most heavily guarded bases and hold off commandos and soldiers for so long?

Some security officials said it must have been an inside job because of the obstacles to entering. The attackers probably travelled along a dirt lane running beside cinder block shacks at the rear of the base.

In order to get in, they had to cross a long, thick sewage path, elude guards in towers, set up a ladder, scale a 12-foot wall, and cut through barbed wire.

The security official said the assailants were dressed in black with night-vision goggles and armed with Russian hand grenades, rocket launchers, assault rifles and suicide vests.*

They fired rocket-propelled grenades at aircraft and fuel tanks, sending huge flames into the sky.

Within a short time, a rapid reaction force from the base tried to engage the raiders, but they retreated to a main building at the sprawling base where they would hole up for the rest of the siege.

Who were these militants?

*The security official said the militants looked foreign, with fair complexions, perhaps Chechens or Uzbeks. Foreign militants tied to al Qaeda&#8217;s international network are known to train in Pakistan&#8217;s unruly tribal areas along the Afghan border. Many of them are allied with the Pakistani Taliban.

Protecting their assets

By 2.30am on Monday, the initial fighting had ebbed. As jet fuel burnt around them, both militants and the military were looking for a plan. Commanders didn&#8217;t want to launch a full-scale assault because they feared further damaging aircraft and infrastructure. Fires had already claimed hangars and damaged other aircraft.*

*&#8220;If we had tried to kill them quickly they might have blown themselves up near our assets and caused more damage. We did finally manage to push them away from our assets,&#8221; said an intelligence official.*

The militants&#8217; plan was kill, and be killed.

Pakistan officials say the main operation to retake the base was over by 9.30am, followed by a search and clear operation lasting until the afternoon. There was scattered gunfire and occasional explosions throughout the day.

*&#8220;Clearly there was a (security) breach,&#8221; said another security official. &#8220;In my personal view there had to be some help from the inside &#8211; to brief the militants about the area, and location.&#8221;*

&#8220;Our forces should have done better. But at the end of the day, if there are suicide bombers who have already decided to die, I don&#8217;t think you can stop them,&#8221; said Shabbir Hussain, a car dealer who lives behind the base.

The civilian government has called a defence committee meeting for Wednesday, two days after the assault, showing a surprising lack of urgency. The military has remained silent. But Pakistanis are more anxious than ever.

How did six Taliban hold off 100 security forces for 16 hours? &#8211; The Express Tribune

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## ramu

noksss said:


> Generally why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists in this case 6 terrorists fought with 200 commandos for 16 hours
> 
> out of that 10 commandos and 4 terroists are dead in Mumbai it took 60 hours to kill 10 terrorists with the loss of 2 commandos
> 
> are the terrorists outsmarting the SSG and NSG . Any experts here can answer why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists


 
Can't compare apples and oranges.


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## T-Faz

noksss said:


> are the terrorists outsmarting the SSG and NSG . Any experts here can answer why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists


 
The terrorists have been trained by Pakistani commando's and other experts from nations like US, China etc. Our SSG developed a very specific and ardent routine for certain militants in the 80's who were capable of attacking deep within Soviet territory.



> *October 1984: CIA Director Secretly Visits Afghan Training Camps; Urges Spread of Violence into Soviet Union*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CIA Director William Casey makes a secret visit to Pakistan to plan a strategy to defeat Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Casey is flown to secret training camps near the Afghan border where he watches trainees fire weapons and make bombs. According to the Washington Post: &#8220;During the visit, Casey startled his Pakistani hosts by proposing that they take the Afghan war into enemy territory&#8212;into the Soviet Union itself. Casey wanted to ship subversive propaganda through Afghanistan to the Soviet Union&#8217;s predominantly Muslim southern republics.&#8221; The Pakistanis agree to the plan and soon the CIA begins sending subversive literature and thousands of Korans to Soviet republics such as Uzbekistan. Mohammad Yousaf, a Pakistani general who attends the meeting, will later say that Casey said, &#8220;We can do a lot of damage to the Soviet Union.&#8221; [WASHINGTON POST, 7/19/1992] This will eventually evolve into CIA and ISI sponsored Afghan attacks inside the Soviet Union (see 1984-March 1985 and 1985-1987).

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## KALKI

T-Faz said:


> *How did six Taliban hold off 100 security forces for 16 hours?*​


 
On Pakistani news channel debates people are saying there were 4 terrorists out which 2 escaped and 2 were killed.


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## T-Faz

iRobot said:


> On Pakistani news channel debates people are saying there were 4 terrorists out which 2 escaped and 2 were killed.


 
They reported close to twenty initially, they all came in 5 black cars.

Later they changed the story to just 6 terrorists which is very odd.

I would not go with the official version.

Why would 6 people use five cars, did the terrorists not attack various locations.

There is something very deep and sinister that is being hidden from the public.

The worst thing could be that those men are our very own soldiers who attacked our strategic assets.

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## 53fd

People are also forgetting that they had about 17 foreigners hostage, so the commandos needed to tackle the situation with the utmost care.


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## KALKI

T-Faz said:


> They reported close to twenty initially, they all came in 5 black cars.
> 
> Later they changed the story to just 6 terrorists which is very odd.
> 
> I would not go with the official version.
> 
> Why would 6 people use five cars, did the terrorists not attack various locations.
> 
> There is something very deep and sinister that is being hidden from the public.
> 
> The worst thing could be that those men are our very own soldiers who attacked our strategic assets.


 
Well, I agree that in such matters no govt. tell the 100% truth to the public. The point is, though, that there are people smart enough and professional enough in this world be them in the US govt. or in other international organisations who would eventually decipher what actually happened and how it happened. That's when pressure on Pakistan will rise to its supreme.


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## xTra

What is preventing the government from Disclosing their identity or may be releasing some photographs.


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## macnurv

*Contradictions emerge in accounts of naval base raid*

KARACHI: A police account released Tuesday on the brazen, 18-hour Taliban assault on a Pakistani naval base says there were twice as many attackers as the number claimed by the government and navy, adding to the questions surrounding the deadly incident.

The attack Sunday in Karachi humiliated Pakistans powerful military establishment and raised concerns about extremist infiltration of security services as well as the safety of the countrys nuclear warheads. The Pakistani Taliban said they staged the raid to avenge the May 2 killing of Osama bin Laden.

The militants destroyed two US-supplied surveillance aircraft and killed 10 people on the base.

On Monday, after commandos had retaken control of Naval Station Mehran, Interior Minister Rehman Malik said up to six assailants were involved, four of whom were killed and two of whom apparently fled. Although they had earlier estimated the number of militants at between 10 and 15, naval officials also revised their estimate to six attackers.

But police said Tuesday in the first information report that between 10 to 12 attackers were involved. Local police chief Shahrukh Khan said the report was written after consultation with a navy officer. Such a report is a formal part of opening an investigation into the attack.

A navy spokesman said he was looking into the discrepancy.

Many analysts were surprised that just six attackers could occupy part of the base for such a long time against a force of hundreds of commandos and navy marines. Pakistan security agencies are known to sometimes not give full accounts of terrorism incidents, and often hold suspects for months without informing the public.

The fact that the attackers managed to infiltrate so deep into the high-security base led to speculation they may have had inside information or assistance.

source


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## T-Faz

bilalhaider said:


> People are also forgetting that they had about 17 foreigners hostage, so the commandos needed to tackle the situation with the utmost care.


 
The Chinese and American engineers were able to get out of harms way and they were evacuated early on in the mission by the army.

It was more to do with making sure that other assets are not damaged by the terrorists.

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## xTra

T-Faz said:


> They reported close to twenty initially, they all came in 5 black cars.
> 
> Later they changed the story to just 6 terrorists which is very odd.
> 
> I would not go with the official version.
> 
> Why would 6 people use five cars, did the terrorists not attack various locations.
> 
> There is something very deep and sinister that is being hidden from the public.
> 
> *The worst thing could be that those men are our very own soldiers who attacked our strategic assets*.



I fear the bolded part may be true.


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## muse

Exactly -- we the ordinary people will never get the truth -- BTW, look at the Statement of Hillary Clinton and the US offer to "help" Pakistan - read "help" Pakistan "secure" strategic assets -- This idiot army has failed on a scale the people of Pakistan are yet to realize

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## pakdefender

The appearance of the militants seems to suggest they could be central Asian. They had Russian made night visions goggles so they might be Chechens and this attack could be linked to the killing of the Chechen family a few days back. Just a guess based on the appearance of the militants and the Russian made nvg.

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## Cent4

I simply can not understand the logic of people who agree that 2 terrorist ran away.
I personaly think 3-4 died and all others were captured and were taken away for interogation.
we didnt hear any thing from navy chief regarding terrorist escaping.
for the sake of argument if our forces were incompetent they could have said anything like all died and wouldnt have shown the pics of those dead.
I dont know why ARM said 2 escaped, one reason could be they didnt want to go through the proper channel like take them to court and bla bla we know how efficent our courts are.
other reason could be someone (TTP or any one else who did it) might take hostages like they did before ( FC Personal ) and ask for an exchange.

P.S 
I dont know if someone here has seen people shootnig pigs and wolfs in sugarcane fields.


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## ramu

bilalhaider said:


> People are also forgetting that they had about 17 foreigners hostage, so the commandos needed to tackle the situation with the utmost care.


 
None of the foreigners were held hostage. They were evacuated soon after action started.


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## KALKI

xTra said:


> What is preventing the government from Disclosing their identity or may be releasing some photographs.


 
Rehman Malik showed the photograph *AND HIS 'LATEST' BLACKBERRY*


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## Rafi

We need to fight this war, with not just physical force, economics and education will have to play a part, and with young men like Lt Syed Yasir Abbas and others willing to fight and die for this great country, I have no doubts in my mind that we will ultimately prevail. 






May the Almighty Bless the Martyrs.

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## Luftwaffe

Gentlemen its a party for PPP...They get to sell the remaining men to xyz nation for a good sum just as RD case was closed. Assume what you people want reports are haunting these men are not eastern in the reports later which has been changed and declared these are from known group such a lie.


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## xTra

aliabid said:


> I simply can not understand the logic of people who agree that 2 terrorist ran away.
> *I personaly think 3-4 died and all others were captured and were taken away for interogation.*



Taken away for interrogation to a undisclosed Location, which wll never be disclosed.

Chapter closed, let us wait for another attack.

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## iPhone

xTra said:


> I fear the bolded part may be true.



I thought thou shall not believe in conspiracy theories. But I guess it's all good business when door is swinging your way.


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## macnurv

pakdefender said:


> The appearance of the militants seems to suggest they could be central Asian. They had Russian made night visions goggles so they might be Chechens and this attack could be linked to the killing of the Chechen family a few days back. Just a guess based on the appearance of the militants and the Russian made nvg.


 
Again this assault required months of planning, it is not as if they just woke up one day and chose their target randomly. It took months of planning to execute this assault. So far Navys response only added more to confusion about the attack and attacker's. We simply can not regard this as a revenge attack. The ulterior motives of the enemy were quite evident, render Pakistan Navy both blind and deaf. The target were Orion's, and now the incompetent cheif of Navy is only making things worse. In his latest incident of shooting his mouth he declared its not the failure on navy's part rather that of PAF, since the terrorists entered through PAF section of the base. I wonder if the admiral himself understands the implications of his statement.

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## Cent4

xTra said:


> Taken away for interrogation to a undisclosed Location, which wll never be disclosed.
> 
> Chapter closed, let us wait for another attack.


 
yeah taken away for good. why on earth someone want to know about the place where they are taken.

attacks might be a joke for you but people die.

and in next attack me or you can also be victims. one should think waht he is wishing for.


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## macnurv

aliabid said:


> I simply can not understand the logic of people who agree that 2 terrorist ran away.
> I personaly think 3-4 died and all others were captured and were taken away for interogation.
> we didnt hear any thing from navy chief regarding terrorist escaping.
> for the sake of argument if our forces were incompetent they could have said anything like all died and wouldnt have shown the pics of those dead.
> I dont know why ARM said 2 escaped, one reason could be they didnt want to go through the proper channel like take them to court and bla bla we know how efficent our courts are.
> other reason could be someone (TTP or any one else who did it) might take hostages like they did before ( FC Personal ) and ask for an exchange.
> 
> P.S
> I dont know if someone here has seen people shootnig pigs and wolfs in sugarcane fields.


 
If that is the case then some one should go and inform those geniuses that your actions are not helping the situation. Your only further demoralizing the forces and people of Pakistan. Rather then come out straight, accept your short falls and learn from mistakes. 
I am not ready to believe that this was work of single six men team, there has to be at least two other teams which is evident as forces for engaged at several points points across the base simultaneously. And may be those killed were actually providing cover for their escaping comrades.


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## KALKI

aliabid said:


> yeah taken away for good. why on earth someone want to know about the place where they are taken.
> 
> attacks might be a joke for you but people die.
> 
> and in next attack me or you can also be victims. one should think waht he is wishing for.


 
There is a difference between wishing for something and warning for something.


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## muse

> I simply can not understand the logic of people who agree that 2 terrorist ran away.




Please elaborate -- and consider, if their entry was undetected, should we not be open to the suggestion that their exit was similarly meticulously planned and may have allowed for multiple options ?

Please also keep your attention to the kinds of "stories" which you may be reading in the papers and also the TV -- from the admittedly few stories I have read, I think we are being fed "facts" which will help establish enough ambiguity to allow for "officially released" conspiracy stories, which will help obscure the truth to such a degree, that like much else in Pakistan, will come to be seen as more of a cartoon or caricature.

I would also like to bring to your attention, another related aspect - namely, the political battle between the civilian government and the armed forces - notice that the armed forces have not called for any kind of review, in fact it's incredible that they have done or said nothing that might suggest that a review of policies and procedures is in effect --- notice that the Civilian government has been made to take up the slack and has to call a meeting to review the security situation --- It seems Kiyani has decided to play the "spoiled child" and has decided to leave Pakistani people to fend for themselves unless, the army it's get way in it's continuing war against the legitimate government of Pakistan ---- Think that's sobering? Just look at what's going on with this army -- even with this mess, no claim of responsibility for the failure to prevent the breach, no offer of resignations by any of the security bosses

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## niaz

Hammy007 said:


> with guy as intelligent as you,, i hope zardari makes you his personal advisor, or i must say obama makes you his personal advisor, so that you can shower your divine wisdom, any crime scene will no need any investigators, detectives and the medical team responsible to post mortem the bodies, the defence analysts as within 2 seconds you can tell who is responsible and what should be done




Honourable Sir,

I would rather remain stupid than join the ranks those who have a soft spot for killers of innocent Pakistanis and destroyers of Pakistani State's assets. Those who cant stomach criticism of these terrorists and reply with sarcasm are even worse.

Your opinion is nevertheless highly valued and I would keep it in mind when I meet Obama next.

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## S.M.R

architect_cobb said:


> Shame on terrorist and taliban sympathizers!!!!


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## S.M.R

noksss said:


> Generally why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists in this case 6 terrorists fought with 200 commandos for 16 hours
> 
> out of that 10 commandos and 4 terroists are dead in Mumbai it took 60 hours to kill 10 terrorists with the loss of 2 commandos
> 
> are the terrorists outsmarting the SSG and NSG . Any experts here can answer why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists


 
If your intention is not trolling, then you can spare some time to read the previous pages, the answer is there.


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## iPhone

T-Faz said:


> *How did six Taliban hold off 100 security forces for 16 hours?*​
> 
> *It took about 100 commandos, rangers and marines to kill four militants and recapture the base, further humiliating the military. Two militants are believed to have escaped.*
> 
> 
> [


wrong, 100 commandos and rangers and marines doesn't mean they all went straight at 4 militants. It was a very large buildings and they didn't know all the locations of where the militants might be hiding. They must have made small units of 3-5 SSG and looked and searched on every floor and room. 



> The security official said the militants looked foreign, with fair complexions, perhaps Chechens or Uzbeks. Foreign militants tied to al Qaeda&#8217;s international network are known to train in Pakistan&#8217;s unruly tribal areas along the Afghan border. Many of them are allied with the Pakistani Taliban.



and somebody was suggesting here they could be our soldiers. Conspiracy theories abound.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> This is the problem when religion and state are fused together and as this religion is not only found within this nation, the foreign variations can influence and perverse the teachings of religion.
> 
> Initially the country has to limit the influence of religion and religious parties to put an end to this madness. Look at the harm that has been caused by all this and to this day a lot of people openly support the terrorists because they are apparently doing gods work.
> 
> When you have entire generations who grew up with violent variations of religion, this had to occur but now is the time to take harsh action against the perpetrators.
> 
> Its Pakistan first and Pakistan alone, any one who disagrees should be removed or held out of important positions.


 
This is rubbish analysis as usual T Faz... In reality why we are in such a mess is because the secularists are trying to control Islam by harsh measures... This is now being used by anti state forces... our enemies are telling those who have been wronged all their lives by these secularist elements that Islam teaches retribution and revenge... 

The harder you go against the militant Islamists, the greater you ll cause bloodshed now... Its time for restrain instead of further aggression... This event has actually opened my eyes... I m now beginning to see some terrible terrible consequences for Pak Army... The boldness with which our enemies are now talking about striking Pak Army is frightening... and as long as this Secularist nonsense continues within our military, well you are digging your own graves... 

anyway this is nt really directed at you... the ones who are being addressed here by me know who they are...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

niaz said:


> Honourable Sir,
> 
> I would rather remain stupid than join the ranks those who have a soft spot for killers of innocent Pakistanis and destroyers of Pakistani State's assets. Those who can&#8217;t stomach criticism of these terrorists and reply with sarcasm are even worse.
> 
> Your opinion is nevertheless highly valued and I would keep it in mind when I meet Obama next.


 
Make up your mind... Do you support drone strikes or not?

If you do... well you are supporting killing of many innocent people... 

Oh and I met Obama yesterday... He had the same stupid smile he always has... the fool


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## S.M.R

T-Faz said:


> *How did six Taliban hold off 100 security forces for 16 hours?*​


 
Well I sincerely doubt the number declared by R.malik.

on the other hand, yes it took long, as they came with the intension of destroying our assets. They were able to enter as the first retaliation they faced was from a commando and shot him dead, and then they were able to fire one of our aircrafts. After that our commandos handled them in a way that they could not fire rest of the planes / assets.

Why the pictures of rest of the dead bodies are not released?


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## muse

> Generally why its taking much time to kill a small number of terrorists in this case 6 terrorists fought with 200 commandos for 16 hours



Perhaps because there were more terrorists than the authorities now say there were -- This operation was long in the planning, the operators (terrorists) apparently better trained than what the Pakistanis claim are their best, the SSG, SSGN (and this should be sobering tot the ordinary Pakistanis)

Look, what is different today from the first hours of this attack?? what is different in what we thought this event is about??

Allow me to say, that for most people, absolutely nothing is different, they know this attack was long planned, well executed and achieved it objective of making the world reconsider the degree to which the Pakistani armed forces can be trusted to safe guard nuclear materials 

Yet for whom has the story changed??

Certainly the authorities - they have only partially figured out how to use the "facts" -- the one thing they have figured out is that there were just 6 terrorists, 2 of whom escaped - so there was never any threat to any "strategic assets or components thereof"

Now everything (facts) that does not fit this, will have to be "cleansed".


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## Last Hope

*ISLAMABAD: Identification records of the dead terrorists involved in the attack on PNS Mehran base in Karachi could not be found, DawnNews reported on Tuesday.*

SP Investigation Niaz Ahmed Khoso said that the police had earlier sent the terrorists fingerprints to NADRA, however NADRA officials said that they could not find any record of the fingerprints in their databases.

Regarding identification through DNA testing, Khoso said that DNA samples had already been dispatched to Islamabad. However, NADRA databases do not have the capability of identification through DNA samples, footprints or eye-scans.

_Khoso further added that judging from their physical appearances, the attackers did not seem to be locals._


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## architect_cobb

innocentboy said:


> Well I do agree with you, thats why they are using TTP.



Yes they are using TTP which is getting education in Pakistani madrassas, recruitment from southern punjab and FATA, right under our eyes. So shut those madrassas and freeze their assets. THEY wouldn't have anybody to use.


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## air marshal




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## air marshal



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## pakdefender

Checking for circumcision is not odd , the Germans used the same method to id the jews [ since jews also do circumcision ] at that time the Germans were technically miles ahead of the rest yet the most basic check for doing an id of the jews was to pull down their pants


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## S.M.R

architect_cobb said:


> Yes they are using TTP which is getting education in Pakistani madrassas, recruitment from southern punjab and FATA, right under our eyes. So shut those madrassas and freeze their assets. THEY wouldn't have anybody to use.


 
No man, thats not the problem, the problem is the arms and ammunition which they get from the afghanistan. If our Pak Afghan is secured then at least half of the problems will die their own death, as unarmed people in madrassas cannot do anything.
We need to kill the causes first.

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## Safriz

worry not. pakistan is the phoenix nation. always rises from ashes.

then goes up in flames.

rises again. goin on like this for ages. pakistan is still there and will remain.

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## Cent4

iRobot said:


> There is a difference between wishing for something and warning for something.


 
and what INFO do you have about this warning


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## alimobin memon

Guys destroying p3c Orion is actually to destroy our surveillance capability 
so that USA could easily penetrate our defence and they knew p3c orion are a important for pakistan navy so US planned so that in near future we can easily destroy pak navy ship which are old !!


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## Cent4

muse said:


> Please elaborate -- and consider, if their entry was undetected, should we not be open to the suggestion that their exit was similarly meticulously planned and may have allowed for multiple options ?
> 
> Please also keep your attention to the kinds of "stories" which you may be reading in the papers and also the TV -- from the admittedly few stories I have read, I think we are being fed "facts" which will help establish enough ambiguity to allow for "officially released" conspiracy stories, which will help obscure the truth to such a degree, that like much else in Pakistan, will come to be seen as more of a cartoon or caricature.
> 
> I would also like to bring to your attention, another related aspect - namely, the political battle between the civilian government and the armed forces - notice that the armed forces have not called for any kind of review, in fact it's incredible that they have done or said nothing that might suggest that a review of policies and procedures is in effect --- notice that the Civilian government has been made to take up the slack and has to call a meeting to review the security situation --- It seems Kiyani has decided to play the "spoiled child" and has decided to leave Pakistani people to fend for themselves unless, the army it's get way in it's continuing war against the legitimate government of Pakistan ---- Think that's sobering? Just look at what's going on with this army -- even with this mess, no claim of responsibility for the failure to prevent the breach, no offer of resignations by any of the security bosses


 
I do agree with you upto some extent 
See when the op started there were only handfull officers at the base but when ended there were close to 1000

when I say that i dont agree with terorrist escaping is because they say "MAY BE" we *saw* 2 terorrist running
if they saw them running that mean it was definately not night time ( if they had saw them at night the distance would have been short and they would have taken them down) and if there was natural light ( ie what we see before sunrise ) they would have cordoned off the area and would have killed or captured them.
and when our honourable and mos respected ARM ( lol ) say there were only 6 I could not disagree more.

but again we are discusing the non issues here.
what we should be discussing on ( what ARM should have told us ) is how many security personals were there and how many should have been.
when we are at state of war why didnt we took the necessary measures that we should have taken. 
I am not related to miltary in any sense. but trust me when this thing was happening only one thing came into my mind 
why the heck there is no F****** snipper with night vision at the tower
we need to adapt different measure in these difficult times. we need to use our common sense we need to identify worst case scenarios and should have counter to them.
we need to be proactive not reactive.

And about civil miltary clash I have some thoughts which might be called a conspiracy theory.

And the naval chief did call for a review I think

My heart bleeds when people here on this forum says it was an inside job by our force's rouge or islamist factors.
I am not saying it was not. may be or may be not.

But again we should use the thing in our heads thats called brain.

Army was demoralised after OBL op. we know for a fact that our govt want ISI under civil govt control they want that army should not be interfering in govt matters ( remember when the floods came there was talk of change of govt with the help of army ). fine these measures should taken and I agree with them.

what I am trying to say is that it may be possible that someone in govt have stage all this to put more presssure on Forces.if they can use all sort of unimaginable tactics to win the election why cant they do this.
Why ARM went straight to karachi he was not going to define a plan to take down terrorist ? tell me which camp did he vist during flood and after how long? Instead he went straight there release the picture and said only 4 came and 2 ran away.

there are so many possibilities It could be RAW or CIA job or it colud be a pure terrorist attack but we are never gona know the truth trust me.

And I am against all this resigning thingi. someone should prove that someone is incompetant or negligent that person should be sacked.


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## MumbaiIndians

EjazR said:


> Apparently the Pakistani Navy used surveliance aircrafts against the Taliban and Navy SSG played major roles in operations like Rah-i-Najat and Rah-i-Raast.
> 
> So the claim that Navy did not fight the Taliban is incorrect.
> 
> *Before Attack, Pakistan's Navy Boasted of Role in Fight Against Taliban - NYTimes.com*


 
+1.

People are still living in denial and just blaming outsiders. If you look closely, terrorists were trained inside Pakistan. Only difference is, before they were attacking India(and people were happy), now they are attacking Pakistan(now people are unhappy).


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## alimobin memon

how to delete the thread i have made it twice plz tell


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## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> This is rubbish analysis as usual T Faz... In reality why we are in such a mess is because the secularists are trying to control Islam by harsh measures... This is now being used by anti state forces... our enemies are telling those who have been wronged all their lives by these secularist elements that Islam teaches retribution and revenge...



Your post is inane as usual, there are no 'secularist' leaders in this nation as you like to put it, a secular leader would advocate separation of state and religion. Zardari, Sharif, Gilani, Chaudhary brothers, Imran et al are not secular leaders, they are just following the old mantra of keeping state and religion together. Was Gen Zia a secularist, I think not, was Sharif a secularist, not really, did Musharraf do anything to promote secularism, nothing.

Your affiliation means that you are unable to comprehend things properly and blame it all on some non-existent 'seculars' while all along its the Islamists who have maligned and hurt Islam.

There is no anti-state force apart from the Islamists who opposed Pakistan throughout and want to establish a regressive Islamic state at war with others. 



> The harder you go against the militant Islamists, the greater you ll cause bloodshed now... Its time for restrain instead of further aggression... This event has actually opened my eyes... I m now beginning to see some terrible terrible consequences for Pak Army... The boldness with which our enemies are now talking about striking Pak Army is frightening... and as long as this Secularist nonsense continues within our military, well you are digging your own graves...



The militants have killed 35,000 people.

Do you even understand how much that is, do you even know what the people have been through. We even tried to bring peace through dialog but these people rebuked us. Now it is time to deal with them in the harshest manner possible, there are many Islamists in the military who facilitate such attacks, their ideology and them need to be dealt with.

There is no secularist nonsense in this scenario as there are no seculars involved, its all to do with Islamists who want to impose themselves on us and on this state.

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## Emmie

What concerns me more is that the same Raga is being harped by the officials over again instead of coming up with some viable modus operandi.


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## Ajaxpaul

alimobin memon said:


> Guys destroying p3c Orion is actually to destroy our surveillance capability
> so that USA could easily penetrate our defence and they knew p3c orion are a important for pakistan navy so US planned so that in *near future we can easily destroy pak navy ship which are old !!*


 
Why do Pakistan want to destroy their own ships??

If you mean US....why do they want to destroy their own toys??

Please go through this thread first.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...ran-base-paf-faisal-base-161.html#post1782161


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## somebozo

It is fascinating that the janglee terrorist who know crack about aircraft came to mount a precise attack against survelliance aircrafts and were wise enough in tactics as well well versed with directions inside the base. Some forgien agency is at work here and mullahs are know to sell religion for dollars. Throughout the history the mullahs have not done anything good other than mutilating religion for money.


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## Emmie

Two PC 3 orion will no more serve PN, a welcome news for east.


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## gaurish

Emmie said:


> Two PC 3 orion will no more serve PN, a welcome news for east.


 
even if they were standing they were not of a concern for the east... 2 planes dont make the difference ... u are talking as if the half of air force is destroyed


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## Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

It is an Old Story US Kills its useless agents it destroys its own toys without Mercy . The Question is how much ready we are to make them realize , We are not unarmed,we got hands,we got more toys,some really use full one ,we got minds,we can do anything,
WE SHALL RISE​


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## Ahmad Abdullah Ravian

somebozo said:


> It is fascinating that the janglee terrorist who know crack about aircraft came to mount a precise attack against survelliance aircrafts and were wise enough in tactics as well well versed with directions inside the base. Some forgien agency is at work here and mullahs are know to sell religion for dollars. Throughout the history the mullahs have not done anything good other than mutilating religion for money.


Please specify your term "*Mulahs*",otherwise its too Rude Sir


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## Hammy007

im sick of this shitt, why bring ideology debate like these guys muse, t-faz, niaz, and why not discuss the actull facts sorrounding the stories and debate, whats the problem with these people???????????????

i hate when people always cry mullah mullah, islamist islamic terrorists, jemati, jehadi, tafkiri, secular republic of pakistan, pakistan must follow turkey, 72 virgins in heaven blah blah

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## Emmie

gaurish said:


> even if they were standing they were not of a concern for the east... 2 planes dont make the difference ... u are talking as if the half of air force is destroyed


Well, please go through Indian media reports pertaining PN P3C Orion, there's a definite concern for east.
BTW P3C Orion serves PN not PAF.


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## majesticpankaj

Emmie said:


> Well, please go through Indian media reports pertaining PN P3C Orion, there's a definite concern for east.


 

I agree with u... It is a huge loss to PN... any loss of PN is IN gain

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## Xeric

ARCHON said:


> Ask them instead... why should India attack some planes with no weapons like orion.???
> 
> You better write some fiction novel... it would be brilliant.


 


aks18 said:


> lol plane with no weapon planes are destroyed where to use weapons now ?? in Ak47 riffles ??? by destroying these planes 50% of our naval capability is downed . navy have nothing to do against operation against talibans.


 


ARCHON said:


> orion is a surveilance plane.
> 
> Its hard to accept some loonies came and made quite a show, hence you are looking towards all other options to hide your shame.Everyone knows that.
> So blame India, CIA , Mossad and usual players.


 
*Armament*

Guns: None

Hardpoints: 4× under-wing, 4× under-wingroot pylon stations and an internal bomb bay with a capacity of 20,000 lb (9,100 kg) and provisions to carry combinations of:

Rockets: None
Missiles: Air-to-surface missile: AGM-65 Maverick, AGM-84 Harpoon, Standoff Land Attack Missile
Bombs: Depth charges

Lockheed P-3 Orion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Mansanpk2009

Hammy007 said:


> im sick of this shitt, why bring ideology debate like these guys muse, t-faz, niaz, and why not discuss the actull facts sorrounding the stories and debate, whats the problem with these people???????????????
> 
> i hate when people always cry mullah mullah, islamist islamic terrorists, jemati, jehadi, tafkiri, secular republic of pakistan, pakistan must follow turkey, 72 virgins in heaven blah blah


 
It is hard to believe that our Naval Chief could be acting so childishly by blaming Airforce for the security lapse?


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## niaz

Just heard on ARY that there were 10 to 12 terrorists. There were some facilitators who got this group inside the base. Target was the 2 PC-3&#8217;s. The ones who died were the section assigned to hold off the PN Commandos to give the &#8216;plane destroyers&#8217; time to get away. 

Also indication are 2 or 3 may have been arrested but officially denied. Apparently one of the people involved in helping these terrorist (apparently a member of Lashkar Jhangvi- splinter group of SSP) has already been arrested based on the info provided by those arrested. Pray tell me aren&#8217;t those who carried out this attack and those who helped these elements enemies of Pakistan?

Problem remains that enemies of Pakistan have found help thru followers of fundamentalist Islam in all strata of the Pakistan polity. This is evident from the fact that even some members of this august forum come out in support of these element without realizing that they are indirectly helping enemies of the State thru their misguided loyalties. 

Al Qaeda, TTP, Takfiris and Salafin are not there for the propagation of true Islam. These groups including main stream parties such as JUI & JI are here to grab political power. Only difference is that JUI & JI take the election route whereas all others use the brute force and terrorism to achieve their end. Naïve Muslims think that when they support extremist groups they are helping Islam; instead in their ignorance they are supporting out and out murderers.

I was against US drones until attack on PNS Mehran. Since then I am convinced that Takfiris, Salafin and Khilafat loving section of Pakistan society will never let the cancer of extremism be eliminated by Pakistani forces. Now I am of the opinion that only way is to stop the growth of this malignant ulcer on the face of Pakistan and Islam is thru US drone attacks. 

Finally it is impossible not to bring ideology in this discussion. One party want a progressive and peaceful Pakistan, the other a Saudi Arabian or Afghan style Taliban state. 

I for one don&#8217;t want Pakistan to be a secular state; at the same time I wouldn&#8217;t want Pakistan to be a Sunni Wahhabi theocratic state either. I crave for the Pakistan as she was from 1947 until advent of the bigot Zia. We were Muslims then and are Muslims now. If we are misguided, we will answer to the Almighty on the day of judgement. We don&#8217;t want a Saudi origin Al Qaeda group or Sufi Mohammad to whip us to be good Muslims nor do we want a dark age Khilafat headed by an ignorant mullah as &#8216;Amirul Momeneen&#8217; to choke us to death.

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## architect_cobb

Hammy007 said:


> im sick of this shitt, why bring ideology debate like these guys muse, t-faz, niaz, and why not discuss the actull facts sorrounding the stories and debate, whats the problem with these people???????????????
> 
> i hate when people always cry mullah mullah, islamist islamic terrorists, jemati, jehadi, tafkiri, secular republic of pakistan, pakistan must follow turkey, 72 virgins in heaven blah blah



Actual facts surrounding the event??? Wanna discuss that. OK here they are four extremists broke into a Naval base after they had committed similar attacks on GHQ, ISI offices, and have killed 35000 Pakistanis. Some of them were suicide bombers. Driven by a hate ideology taught in some Madrassas. 

Wait a sec did I say? suicide bombers, madrassas, extremists? WELL THE THING IS THAT THESE ARE THE FACTS DUDE!!!!

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## MumbaiIndians

Hammy007 said:


> im sick of this shitt, why bring ideology debate like these guys muse, t-faz, niaz, and why not discuss the actull facts sorrounding the stories and debate, whats the problem with these people???????????????
> 
> i hate when people always cry mullah mullah, islamist islamic terrorists, jemati, jehadi, tafkiri, secular republic of pakistan, pakistan must follow turkey, 72 virgins in heaven blah blah


 
That's because you are still living in denial mode. Wake up.


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## Mr.Ryu

At least now Pakistan must crack down on terrorism and others using their resource, It may be old but its need of the hour cant pakistan see its eatting them alive from inside. Those done this attack on MEHRAN must be booked and no legal aid to be given. It's more serious than 26/11 where we had terror against ordinary citizen in railway station and hospital but here we have terror against ARMY NAVY AND AIR FORCE strong holds and even they managed to kill some precious brave hearts


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## Xeric

All-Green said:


> Xeric,
> 
> I agree with you and really do sympathize with my military brothers.
> The brothers who are daily putting their life on the line to honor their uniform and country despite facing many shortages and inadequacies... yet are let down by nation and leadership in this dark time.
> But there is a reason for this let down, right or wrong.
> 
> The nation always loved the army and that is why it is so bitter because it feels exposed and let down in these strange times.
> The nation is confused and divided since it has been fed so much nonsense over the years, it is difficult to see the truth and that scares the people even more.
> To make the nation aware we need leadership to come clean and if the civilian leadership is not setting an example, i would want my army to sacrifice once more for the sake of the nation.
> 
> I know that there are already many critics in the ranks who want their leadership to be more clear in its stance.
> 
> Let there be some scapegoats who bear the burden of the failure and in its wake let there be a most thorough and dramatic investigation by the high command and agencies which reveal the hundreds of names and places responsible for breeding extremism and intolerance...where the innocent minds are twisted to become hate factories.
> Let there be a crackdown on the illegal weapons in possession of these organizations and individuals, just to send a strong message that this is no longer your playing ground.
> Let us implement a security blanket where it is not easy for these lashkars to wield AK-47s and stash weapons by the hundreds.
> 
> We both agree that military is spread thin and despite the military budget debates...there are shortages because the task is huge and extremely unconventional.
> So why not push the non military solution in front of the government?
> Even if it means acknowledging strategic mistakes of the past.
> 
> *Let us pass the list of all these extremist organizations and leaders to the provinces and the interior ministry...let us see how the matter is handled by the civilian leadership.
> Let the ISI brief the honorable parliament that we are indeed putting our house in order but here are some actions we want to be taken in order to dismantle the militant networks which are supporting the TTP.
> And for starters, it would not be bad if the Law minister of Punjab stops socializing with terrorists!!!
> Let us expose the PML-N's connections to the extremists so that by the time next elections come, nation is aware of the truth and chooses wisely.
> Let us see how the government prosecutes the laskhars.
> Let us see who hesitates and supports the terrorists against the military and government.
> Let us try to expose the enemies of the state via a much more honest and well thought out approach.
> 
> Let there be a clear cut military requirement from the government that these Lashkars need to be eliminated for our sake...
> We cannot mingle with and tolerate gun wielding crazies and hope to remain a sane and violence-free society.*
> The military needs to do all in its power to facilitate this decision making since without military support and backing, it is impossible to take action against such militant factions.
> The military of Pakistan has always played a role beyond that of a military and not all of it was negative...it is once more needed for military to help us out of a mess which is not just military in nature.
> 
> Let us deal with an iron fist against the support structure of terrorism, instead of sending our boys to a meat grinder all the time, without gaining much in terms of a result!
> It is still not too late for us to redefine our strategy.


 
In addition to what you have said (the highlighted part) i for one would like to add that we should start kicking out those who like to say namaz-e-janaza for the likes of Osama, those who call terrorists dying in FATA Shaheeds, those who call the like of Qadri Ghazis, who call killed in Lal Masjid Shaheeds, those who still want to talk with this bastards, those who want the military to show restraint while dealing with these thugs etc etc.

For what you have suggested in this post and the previous one to happen we must have a common stance as a Nation. Unfortunately after spending years in this war, after sacrificing so much and after being insulted and damaged so much we still have people among us who wants to sing laurels for these terrorists, still we have people among us who questions the military when it asks for more funds, still we have people who are more worried about the none-availability of CNG than worrying about that mashkook guy who rented a big house next to us. We need to correct this first.

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## T-Faz

Hammy007 said:


> im sick of this shitt, why bring ideology debate like these guys muse, t-faz, niaz, and why not discuss the actull facts sorrounding the stories and debate, whats the problem with these people???????????????
> 
> i hate when people always cry mullah mullah, islamist islamic terrorists, jemati, jehadi, tafkiri, secular republic of pakistan, pakistan must follow turkey, 72 virgins in heaven blah blah



Kya karoon yaar?

Everytime I turn on the TV there is something going on in Pakistan.

Everytime I read the news on my phone, something is happening in Pakistan.

At work, at study, at party, in the strip club, you check the news and something is occuring in Pakistan.

So I have to say it here, that its the ideology at fault.

If I start talking to strangers about all this, they will send me to a mental institute.


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## KALKI

T-Faz said:


> Kya karoon yaar?
> 
> Everytime I turn on the TV there is something going on in Pakistan.
> 
> Everytime I read the news on my phone, something is happening in Pakistan.
> 
> At work, at study, at party, in the strip club, you check the news and something is occuring in Pakistan.
> 
> So I have to say it here, that its the ideology at fault.
> 
> If I start talking to strangers about all this, they will send me to a mental institute.


 
Read a tweet: In Pakistan, go to bed with bad news, wake up with bad news.

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## AsianLion

"Hamara aik shaheed tumharay 100 murdaar sai behtar hai". A message to our enemies : "Its in the hands of God to forgive you or punish you, But to fix your appointment with Him is our duty".


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## justanobserver

T-Faz said:


> At work, at study, at party, *in the strip club*, you check the news and something is occuring in Pakistan.


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## Hammy007

niaz said:


> Just heard on ARY that there were 10 to 12 terrorists. There were some facilitators who got this group inside the base. Target was the 2 PC-3s. The ones who died were the section assigned to hold off the PN Commandos to give the plane destroyers time to get away.
> 
> Also indication are 2 or 3 may have been arrested but officially denied. Apparently one of the people involved in helping these terrorist (apparently a member of Lashkar Jhangvi- splinter group of SSP) has already been arrested based on the info provided by those arrested. Pray tell me arent those who carried out this attack and those who helped these elements enemies of Pakistan?
> 
> Problem remains that enemies of Pakistan have found help thru followers of fundamentalist Islam in all strata of the Pakistan polity. This is evident from the fact that even some members of this august forum come out in support of these element without realizing that they are indirectly helping enemies of the State thru their misguided loyalties.
> 
> Al Qaeda, TTP, Takfiris and Salafin are not there for the propagation of true Islam. These groups including main stream parties such as JUI & JI are here to grab political power. Only difference is that JUI & JI take the election route whereas all others use the brute force and terrorism to achieve their end. Naïve Muslims think that when they support extremist groups they are helping Islam; instead in their ignorance they are supporting out and out murderers.
> 
> I was against US drones until attack on PNS Mehran. Since then I am convinced that Takfiris, Salafin and Khilafat loving section of Pakistan society will never let the cancer of extremism be eliminated by Pakistani forces. Now I am of the opinion that only way is to stop the growth of this malignant ulcer on the face of Pakistan and Islam is thru US drone attacks.
> 
> Finally it is impossible not to bring ideology in this discussion. One party want a progressive and peaceful Pakistan, the other a Saudi Arabian or Afghan style Taliban state.
> 
> I for one dont want Pakistan to be a secular state; at the same time I wouldnt want Pakistan to be a Sunni Wahhabi theocratic state either. I crave for the Pakistan as she was from 1947 until advent of the bigot Zia. We were Muslims then and are Muslims now. If we are misguided, we will answer to the Almighty on the day of judgement. We dont want a Saudi origin Al Qaeda group or Sufi Mohammad to whip us to be good Muslims nor do we want a dark age Khilafat headed by an ignorant mullah as Amirul Momeneen to choke us to death.


 
ok now ask your govt, how they know its lashkar e jhangvi, the talibans have already accepted the responsibility, now go and do some home work over it


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## MumbaiIndians

AsianUnion said:


> "Hamara aik shaheed tumharay 100 murdaar sai behtar hai". A message to our enemies : "Its in the hands of God to forgive you or punish you, But to fix your appointment with Him is our duty".


 
"Forgiving a terrorist is left to God, but fixing their appointment with him, is our responsibility" - Indian Army.


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## MumbaiIndians

T-Faz said:


> At work, at study, at party, *in the strip club*, you check the news and something is occuring in Pakistan.
> 
> So *I have to say it here, that its the ideology at fault.*


 
There are strip clubs in Pakistan?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Niaz Sahib, yes indeed LeJ & SSP are sworn enemies of Pakistan and will/should be treated thusly.

quite sad when we have certain bloody civilian politicians (of a certain political party(s)) whose constitutents are either members or sympathisers of these groups

if i'm not mistaken, they are also fully or at least partly responsible for the sectarian violence in Karachi & other cities as well


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## unicorn

MumbaiIndians said:


> There are strip clubs in Pakistan?



It was a mistake by T-Faz that is in telling something to an excessive degree.Would you please stop trolling if you have nothing important to say.


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## Irfan Baloch

are therre any pictures posted of the dead terrorists?


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## TruthSeeker

niaz said:


> I was against US drones until attack on PNS Mehran. Since then I am convinced that Takfiris, Salafin and Khilafat loving section of Pakistan society will never let the cancer of extremism be eliminated by Pakistani forces. Now I am of the opinion that only way is to stop the growth of this malignant ulcer on the face of Pakistan and Islam is thru US drone attacks.


 
The great irony of the opposition to the drone strikes on the basis of collateral damage is that drone strikes produce the least collateral damage of any method of getting at the leaders of the terrorists. Sending in Pakistani ground forces puts those soldiers at tremendous risk of life and limb AND causes the dislocation of huge groups of the civilian population. Air strikes or artillery strikes obliterate everything within 300 meters of a legitimate target. The PA should publicly embrace the drone strikes. The PA should sit their own liaison staff members right down beside the American drone operators and take both credit for the good strikes, and some blame for the small amount of collateral damage that inevitably occurs. BUT, a precursor to this is the giving up of the "good" Taliban .......


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## unicorn

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Niaz Sahib, yes indeed LeJ & SSP are sworn enemies of Pakistan and will/should be treated thusly.
> 
> quite sad when we have certain bloody civilian politicians (of a certain political party(s)) whose constitutents are either members or sympathisers of these groups
> 
> if i'm not mistaken, they are also fully or at least partly responsible for the sectarian violence in Karachi & other cities as well



Jab ghar main larai ho to koi bhi bahar wala aap ko apna hathiar bana sakta hai.It is very unfortunate for us that outsiders are exploiting our weaknesses very well.But a true ghar wala whose intentions are true in confrontation with other ghar walas will never ever play in the hands of the outsiders. *So first thing first*.It is up to us now to identify first who is playing in the hands of outsiders than the internal despute will be handled other wise the ghar will not stand a chance.

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## a. hussain

Guys, was just watching 'Capital Talk' and noted an interesting point raised by participants with Hamid Mir that ' Why Pakistan's border with Afghanistan is not fenced and why US objects whenever Pakistan wants to fence it? According to Ansar Abbasi & others it is becasue terrorists are pushed by US & cronies thru it. This is a valid observation and Govt & Armed Forces should immedately take serious actions in this regard for the good of the country and then start a thorough screening process throughout the country, although it is very difficult and time consuming but we must start proper reactive corrective actions to counter & tackle the enemies of the state.

Thanks


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## unicorn

TruthSeeker said:


> The great irony of the opposition to the drone strikes on the basis of collateral damage is that drone strikes produce the least collateral damage of any method of getting at the leaders of the terrorists. Sending in Pakistani ground forces puts those soldiers at tremendous risk of life and limb AND causes the dislocation of huge groups of the civilian population. Air strikes or artillery strikes obliterate everything within 300 meters of a legitimate target. The PA should publicly embrace the drone strikes. The PA should sit their own liaison staff members right down beside the American drone operators and take both credit for the good strikes, and some blame for the small amount of collateral damage that inevitably occurs. BUT, a precursor to this is the giving up of the "good" Taliban .......



In terms of physical collateral damage *Yes* you are right it will damage the least but in the terms of Psychologically and in this war as we all know which is not just a physical confrontation but more of a mind we should not use this kind of approach.


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## T-Faz

Last Hope said:


> *ISLAMABAD: Identification records of the dead terrorists involved in the attack on PNS Mehran base in Karachi could not be found, DawnNews reported on Tuesday.*
> 
> SP Investigation Niaz Ahmed Khoso said that the police had earlier sent the terrorists fingerprints to NADRA, however NADRA officials said that they could not find any record of the fingerprints in their databases.
> 
> Regarding identification through DNA testing, Khoso said that DNA samples had already been dispatched to Islamabad. However, NADRA databases do not have the capability of identification through DNA samples, footprints or eye-scans.
> 
> _Khoso further added that judging from their physical appearances, the attackers did not seem to be locals._


 
The ones who were killed are nationals from Central Asia, most likely Uzbeks and one of them is reported to be an Afghani too.

However the ones that got away were Pakistani's.

The terrorists who were killed did not harm the aircraft's, their responsibility was just to keep the commandos away while the terrorists inside can cause their damage.

Similarly their was internal support for the terrorists as they knew all the blind spots and how to enter the base.

All in all a well planned attack with support from amongst the ranks. 

Its definitely some Al Qaeda linked Jihadi group.

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## Pride

What worries me about Pakistan is that conflict with in? People have different ideologies and its own way to see the things in a "Unique" POV. Many people openly support Jihadi/Terrorists and once they are blown by such kind of people they suddenly ignore the problems they have created and without a proper introspection they start crying foul against USA, India, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc.

This is not happening from yesterday, This is started 2005 onwards, What you people are doing? sheltering criminals of the world like Osama, Dawood, Hafiz saeed and then expecting support/respect from all the world ??? Jamaat and Madarsa openly teaching hatred against other religions but you people are silent, History is murdered by teachers but still you are silent, Your PM is selling your country but No action?? Who is responsible, its you educted folks in Pak? Why you never had "Jasmin Revolution" while you people are suffering? We Indians simply gave a demo to our governement on corruption and things are on track.. Why dont you try..its your country go ahead save it from your people first..

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## Hammy007

Pride said:


> What worries me about Pakistan is that conflict with in? People have different ideologies and its own way to see the things in a "Unique" POV. Many people openly support Jihadi/Terrorists and once they are blown by such kind of people they suddenly ignore the problems they have created and without a proper introspection they start crying foul against USA, India, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan etc.
> 
> This is not happening from yesterday, This is started 2005 onwards, What you people are doing? sheltering criminals of the world like Osama, Dawood, Hafiz saeed and then expecting support/respect from all the world ??? Jamaat and Madarsa openly teaching hatred against other religions but you people are silent, History is murdered by teachers but still you are silent, Your PM is selling your country but No action?? Who is responsible, its you educted folks in Pak? Why you never had "Jasmin Revolution" while you people are suffering? We Indians simply gave a demo to our governement on corruption and things are on track.. Why dont you try..its your country go ahead save it from your people first..


 
more indians support terrorism then pakistanis ever will, pakistanis didnt blew an indian bus/train inside pakistan, but indians did this with samjhota express

you dont have proves about pakistan's involvement in mumbai attacks

the list of most wanted which india provided to pakistan was a fake

india didnt do terrorism inside pakistan??? many indian terrorists was arrested in 1990s and before that, indians shot pakistani naval plane inside pakistan killing many people and lied the plane was inside indian border

musharraf has declared many indians are responsible for terrorism in balochistan

the incompetent pakistani government has not arrested a single terrorist alive and has not investigated the terrorists attacks, so even the pakistani government hasnt proved who were the actual terrorists, so the theory that the terrorists were from inside can just be speculated, it can never be proved without investigation

the chechens were brutally killed while they were declared terrorists, but after investigation they were prove innocents, the *FACTS* came they were asked money from the pakistani officials, bribe, but when they failed to give the money, they were ordered ti kill as terrorists

there has been no investigation of any sort, so no one can say who were behind the terrorism


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## Xeric

PNS Mehran: Govt Should Ban Google Maps for Sensitive Locations - CSS Forums

PNS Mehran: Govt Should Ban Google Maps for Sensitive Locations

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## Pride

Hammy007 said:


> more indians support terrorism then pakistanis ever will, pakistanis didnt blew an indian bus/train inside pakistan, but indians did this with samjhota express
> 
> you dont have proves about pakistan's involvement in mumbai attacks
> 
> the list of most wanted which india provided to pakistan was a fake
> 
> india didnt do terrorism inside pakistan??? many indian terrorists was arrested in 1990s and before that, indians shot pakistani naval plane inside pakistan killing many people and lied the plane was inside indian border
> 
> musharraf has declared many indians are responsible for terrorism in balochistan
> 
> the incompetent pakistani government has not arrested a single terrorist alive and has not investigated the terrorists attacks, so even the pakistani government hasnt proved who were the actual terrorists, so the theory that the terrorists were from inside can just be speculated, it can never be proved without investigation


 
You are the one I was talking about... Do an introspection and comeback..


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## air marshal



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## AsianLion

"Hamara aik shaheed tumharay 100 murdaar sai behtar hai". 

A message to our enemies : "Its in the hands of God to forgive you or punish you, But to fix your appointment with Him is our duty".


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## Luftwaffe

There is some BS information coming from certain members, refrain from posting lies..

I am extremely disappointed with Govt. It is so wrong to suggest to award Nishan-e-Haidar to one person and leave out rest. Thousands of soldiers died in Waziristan/Sawat and all over Pakistan and they're not even awarded anything while mr. yassir is possibly might get nishan-e-haidar, many generals and colonels, majors, captains have sacrificed their lives this is so wrong this is really turning into a sindh card and "shia favored" to award nishan-e-haidar to certain people of certain sect and leave out the rest.


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## Hammy007

Pride said:


> You are the one I was talking about... Do an introspection and comeback..


 
osama is not killed in pakistan, americans have already lowered their credibility by producing fake pictures and fake videos, these videos are even without the audio

hafiz saaed has been proven innocents through pakistani courts, so you have provided null proof that he is terrorist, you dont have any prove at all, go and find some credible proves

as you indians say that to root out terrorists is your indian duty, why hasnt the terrorist indian colonel responsible for samjhota express not been tried and convicted??

why babu bajrangi and lalit modi who have been proved guilty for gujrat muslim massacre and who have confessed on tape been tried and convicted??

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## Porus

T-Faz said:


> The ones who were killed are nationals from Central Asia, most likely Uzbeks and one of them is reported to be an Afghani too.
> 
> However the ones that got away were Pakistani's.
> 
> The terrorists who were killed did not harm the aircraft's, their responsibility was just to keep the commandos away while the terrorists inside can cause their damage.
> 
> Similarly their was internal support for the terrorists as they knew all the blind spots and how to enter the base.
> 
> All in all a well planned attack with support from amongst the ranks.
> 
> Its definitely some Al Qaeda linked Jihadi group.



How did they found out that those who managed to escape were Pakistanis? And as far as I know Uzbeks normally have broad and flat faces although according to Rehman Malik the terrorists who were killed had sharp features.

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## VelocuR

*Pakistan media ridicules military after attack*

ISLAMABAD (Reuters) &#8211; *Pakistan's military was ridiculed and accused of complicity in the media on Tuesday after a small group of militants laid siege to a naval air base, holding out for 16 hours against about 100 commandos and rangers.*

As few as six militants infiltrated the PNS Mehran naval base in Karachi, the headquarters of Pakistan's naval air wing, on Sunday night, killing 10 security forces and wounding 20.

"Our mujahideen who conducted this operation were equipped with faith as well as with sophisticated weapons and that's why they fought with hundreds of security forces and inflicted heavy losses on them," Pakistan Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan told Reuters from an undisclosed location.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said on Monday three militants were killed in the gun battle while the body of a fourth was believed to be buried under the rubble of a collapsed wall. Two suspects were believed to have fled the scene, he added.

Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani travelled to the base on Tuesday to pay tribute to the security forcers who died.

Gilani particularly praised Lieutenant Yasir Abbas, the young Navy officer who died leading a counter-attack against the militants and who has been embraced as a national hero.

"We are proud of our these brave men," Gilani said.

Pakistan's military has been on the back foot since U.S. special forces killed al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden on May 2, unable to explain either why they had been unable to catch the world's most wanted man themselves or why the Americans could launch a raid deep into their territory undetected.

Two P-3C Orion aircraft from the United States -- crucial assets for Pakistan's anti-submarine and maritime surveillance capability -- were destroyed in Monday's raid, and the Pakistan military's reputation as a defender of the country and of Islam was left in tatters.

Reaction to the raid from the generally pro-military Pakistani media was harsh.
*
"Political rhetoric and a Cabinet Defense Committee meeting are not going to solve this one," read an editorial in the English-language daily, The News. "This is an epic failure exposing an existential threat that will need epic leadership to countervail."

An editorial in the Urdu-language Jang, one of nuclear-armed Pakistan's biggest and most pro-military newspapers, said the attacks illustrated "a weakness of security measures."*
*
"In very polite words, it can be called worrisome negligence."*
*
Others went beyond incompetence and suggested that the attackers had help from within the military.*

"Did the Taliban raiders have information inside the naval base?" wrote Dawn, another English-language daily. "Such a possibility cannot be ruled out, because the involvement of serving personnel in several previous attacks has been well-established."

In October 2009, a similarly small raiding party attacked the Army's General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, taking 42 people hostage, including several officers. By the end of the day-long ordeal, nine gunmen, 11 soldiers and three hostages were dead.

Later investigations found several low-ranking soldiers and officers were involved in helping the attackers.

Ehsan declined to confirm whether the militants had help in the military.

"Our 'local friends' from Karachi helped us in yesterday's operation but I would not say whether we had friends on the base or not," Ehsan said.

Amir Rana, director of the Pakistan Institute of Peace Studies and author of a book on jihadi groups in Pakistan, doubts the Taliban was directly involved, but more likely worked through other, Punjab-based groups affiliated with al Qaeda.

"There are militant groups which have training and capabilities for these kind of attacks and they also are in direct contact with al Qaeda," he said.

He thought groups attached to Ilyas Kashmiri, who reportedly commands the "313 Brigade," al Qaeda's operational arm, more likely staged the raid, given its sophistication.

He identified three groups active in Karachi -- Jundullah, Arshad Wahid group and Harkat-ul-Mujahideen-Al-Alami, which he said could also have been be involved.

The military launched operations against the Pakistan Taliban in South Waziristan in 2009, scattering the leadership and racking up some victories.

Last year was relatively quiet, but the Pakistan Taliban appears to have built up its connections, giving militants a new strike capacity in Pakistan's economic hub.

(Additional reporting by Saud Mehsud, Augustine Anthony, Zeeshain Haider, Mubashir Bukhari and Kamran Haider; Editing by Nick Macfie)

-----------------------------
I am pleased our Media blast our Army, SSG, Navy for their incompetences and failure. How pathetic! 



> This story sure gives me warm fuzzy feelings about how well the Pakistan military guards their nuclear weapons.


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## Areesh

Luftwaffe said:


> There is some BS information coming from certain members, refrain from posting lies..
> 
> I am extremely disappointed with Govt. It is so wrong to suggest to award Nishan-e-Haidar to one person and leave out rest. Thousands of soldiers died in Waziristan/Sawat and all over Pakistan and they're not even awarded anything while mr. yassir is possibly might get nishan-e-haidar, many generals and colonels, majors, captains have sacrificed their lives this is so wrong this is really turning into a sindh card and "shia favored" to award nishan-e-haidar to certain people of certain sect and leave out the rest.


 
I agree with your post. Very true.


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## T-Faz

Porus said:


> How did they found out that those who managed to escape were Pakistanis? And as far as I know Uzbeks normally have broad and flat faces although according to Rehman Malik the terrorists who were killed had sharp features.


 
By reading reports, articles and first hand accounts.


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## Pride

Hammy007 said:


> osama is not killed in pakistan, americans have already lowered their credibility by producing fake pictures and fake videos, these videos are even without the audio
> 
> hafiz saaed has been proven innocents through pakistani courts, so you have provided null proof that he is terrorist, you dont have any prove at all, go and find some credible proves
> 
> as you indians say that to root out terrorists is your indian duty, why hasnt the terrorist indian colonel responsible for samjhota express not been tried and convicted??
> 
> why babu bajrangi and lalit modi who have been proved guilty for gujrat muslim massacre and who have confessed on tape been tried and convicted??


 
I can go ahead and give reply to each and every statement to you on above as well as earlier points but profit?? are we discussing India here?? No.. What we are discussing here is the reason and introspection from neighbours which in turn will save you.. and not only discussion but to go ahead, take a step and change the course of bomb explosion to save your fellow countrymen.. Discussion about India and comparison we can do later


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## a. hussain

Brother don't give comments which further divides the nation. I myself believe that our govts & armed forces have always shown too much discrimination when awarding to people belonging to some specific regions despite the fact there were other nationals/ soldiers who also sacrificed their lives for the country but let-it-go. The most imp thing is that what Allah is keeping for that person is far far better than any worldy medals/ recognitions. This is my opinion.

Thanks


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## Hammy007

Porus said:


> How did they found out that those who managed to escape were Pakistanis? And as far as I know Uzbeks normally have broad and flat faces although according to Rehman Malik the terrorists who were killed had sharp features.


 
they can never find who where even the terrorists, there will not be a slight investigation because uncle sam has said that, they even havent found who killed benazir, this zerdari rejected international team to investigate her murder


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> Your post is inane as usual, there are no 'secularist' leaders in this nation as you like to put it, a secular leader would advocate separation of state and religion. Zardari, Sharif, Gilani, Chaudhary brothers, Imran et al are not secular leaders, they are just following the old mantra of keeping state and religion together. Was Gen Zia a secularist, I think not, was Sharif a secularist, not really, did Musharraf do anything to promote secularism, nothing.
> 
> Your affiliation means that you are unable to comprehend things properly and blame it all on some non-existent 'seculars' while all along its the Islamists who have maligned and hurt Islam.
> 
> There is no anti-state force apart from the Islamists who opposed Pakistan throughout and want to establish a regressive Islamic state at war with others.
> 
> 
> 
> The militants have killed 35,000 people.
> 
> Do you even understand how much that is, do you even know what the people have been through. We even tried to bring peace through dialog but these people rebuked us. Now it is time to deal with them in the harshest manner possible, there are many Islamists in the military who facilitate such attacks, their ideology and them need to be dealt with.
> 
> There is no secularist nonsense in this scenario as there are no seculars involved, its all to do with Islamists who want to impose themselves on us and on this state.


 
well since you dont even understand secularism, I dont think I should respond to your post... 

if Zardari and Musharaf are Islamists according to you, then the only thing I can do is laugh... haha

and yes... be my guest... let us continue the aggression against these "Islamists" and cause further bloodshed in the country, humiliation for our nation and our army... 

and yeah... it must be some 'Army" people who helped this operation... what rubbish yaar... You think our own Army is attacking itself now? 

The only support the "extremist" element in our army has ever given to what is now the Kharaji problem for us... is Anti India and Anti America moral support... these very "extremist" elements that you are accusing of treason have tried to bring the militants onboard and utilize their energies against our enemy in the east instead of against our own people... Its a different matter that it did nt work because our stupid Uncle Musharaf allowed the Americans to kill our own people using drone attacks...

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## unicorn

Xeric said:


> PNS Mehran: Govt Should Ban Google Maps for Sensitive Locations - CSS Forums
> 
> PNS Mehran: Govt Should Ban Google Maps for Sensitive Locations



Sir I think this move will not help.anyone can e mail the images from outside.We should look at what the American forces strategy are in Afghanistan.There are no updated images of Afghanistan(sensitive locations) since (2004 2005).Besides the western media openly gives the updated images of our nuclear facilities from time to time.Can we enforce or restrict this on the international level.


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## Slides

Luftwaffe said:


> There is some BS information coming from certain members, refrain from posting lies..
> 
> I am extremely disappointed with Govt. It is so wrong to suggest to award Nishan-e-Haidar to one person and leave out rest. Thousands of soldiers died in Waziristan/Sawat and all over Pakistan and they're not even awarded anything while mr. yassir is possibly might get nishan-e-haidar, many generals and colonels, majors, captains have sacrificed their lives this is so wrong this is really turning into a sindh card and "shia favored" to award nishan-e-haidar to certain people of certain sect and leave out the rest.


 
Sindh card? He was from Lahore you idiot. And how do you know he's shia or sunni or whatever?


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## Hammy007

Pride said:


> I can go ahead and give reply to each and every statement to you on above as well as earlier points but profit?? are we discussing India here?? No.. What we are discussing here is the reason and introspection from neighbours which in turn will save you.. and not only discussion but to go ahead, take a step and change the course of bomb explosion to save your fellow countrymen.. Discussion about India and comparison we can do later


 
i didnt ask you and your buddies to troll here, we are discussing a terrorist attack which can occur both from internal elements and external elements, you said some thing to support your opinion of terrorist being pakistani and you started to troll then, i started to discuss the foreign elements possible for this attack, those who are killed are total foreigners, they are not pakistanis, my question is if it was an inside job how come those terrorists were foreigners, they could have been pakistanis

now we all know indians are in afghanistan, they are supporting terrorism in balochistan which our presidents have cleary declared and that they have the proves..

do you understand now what i mean


----------



## Abu Zolfiqar

sect or place of birth or any of that trivial crap does not matter here at all....so leave it out

he is a Pakistani, and a shaheed. Just like the others who died serving the country honourably and with conviction


and for whatever its worth mentioning, he hailed from Kurram Agency (FATA)


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## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> well since you dont even understand secularism, I dont think I should respond to your post...
> 
> if Zardari and Musharaf are Islamists according to you, then the only thing I can is laugh... haha



Very odd argument, you call me a secularist and then say that I don't even understand secularism.

Similarly, I have never stated that Zardari and Musharraf are Islamists, I said that they are not secularists as you claim them to be. They keep religion and state together when a secular leader would strive to separate it.



> and yes... be my guest... let us continue the aggression against these "Islamists" and cause further bloodshed in the country, humiliation for our nation and our army...
> 
> you are a true patriot...


 
Aggression?

They have killed 35,000 Pakistani's, should we sing love songs to them?

Do you think they will stop bombing and killing Pakistani's if we back away.

The only humiliation is that we cannot defeat these terrorists, the whole world is laughing at us for our incompetency, our complicity and our double game.

You are not thinking logically, there is no secularist involved in this, its Islamists all the way.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Hammy007 said:


> im sick of this shitt, why bring ideology debate like these guys muse, t-faz, niaz, and why not discuss the actull facts sorrounding the stories and debate, whats the problem with these people???????????????
> 
> i hate when people always cry mullah mullah, islamist islamic terrorists, jemati, jehadi, tafkiri, secular republic of pakistan, pakistan must follow turkey, 72 virgins in heaven blah blah


 
Sadly its the favorite pastime of some of our dear members here... You forgot another favorite mantra of theirs... Zia Zia Zia...


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## Watani

Hammy007 said:


> now we all know indians are in afghanistan, they are supporting terrorism in balochistan which our presidents have cleary declared and that they have the proves..


Which proves? And where are they?


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## F-16_Falcon

Watched navy chief's press conference on geo. i could not believe we have such people as navy chief! first to last he was praising the four attackers and no talk how it was done and who is responsible for the security breach. 

lanat hai 


Pakistan to ask US for two more Orion planes
Pakistan to ask US for two more Orion planes

this is shameful


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## Luftwaffe

slides, you don't know the depth of sindh card, and sects card. Yes we respect mr. yassir for what he has done but there were thousand of other soldiers who've done the same and more. And mr. yassir is from the shia sect, I did not complain why he is shia i simply said there is politics being played here as well. And mind your language.


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## macnurv

T-Faz said:


> The ones who were killed are nationals from Central Asia, most likely Uzbeks and one of them is reported to be an Afghani too.
> 
> However the ones that got away were Pakistani's.
> 
> The terrorists who were killed did not harm the aircraft's, their responsibility was just to keep the commandos away while the terrorists inside can cause their damage.
> 
> Similarly their was internal support for the terrorists as they knew all the blind spots and how to enter the base.
> 
> All in all a well planned attack with support from amongst the ranks.
> 
> Its definitely some Al Qaeda linked Jihadi group.


 
We don't even know who they were. Our brilliant Interior Minister Rehman Bawa did told us they were dressed as characters from StarWars, apparently he was referring them as "Darth Vaders". He did informed us they had fair skin with sharp features, which was really helpful and once again Rehman Bawa resolved a very huge mystery. 

The FIR lodged by the police actually talks about more then dozen attackers, which is being denied by the Navy sources. I find it impossible that just one team of 6 men was able to cause so much havoc. There were other groups as well and it does seem that the ones killed actually stayed back so that the rest of teams can escape. If this is found to be true then this is a very serious issue, it have exposed the incompetency of Pakistani Security forces.
So far the Navy's cooperation with Police not only on PNS attack but previous ones is non existent. Navy is just not ready to acknowledge its short comings which is quite evident from the almost arrogant and shameless attitude of Navy Chief since the attack.


----------



## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> Very odd argument, you call me a secularist and then say that I don't even understand secularism.
> 
> Similarly, I have never stated that Zardari and Musharraf are Islamists, I said that they are not secularists as you claim them to be. They keep religion and state together when a secular leader would strive to separate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression?
> 
> They have killed 35,000 Pakistani's, should we sing love songs to them?
> 
> Do you think they will stop bombing and killing Pakistani's if we back away.
> 
> The only humiliation is that we cannot defeat these terrorists, the whole world is laughing at us for our incompetency, our complicity and our double game.
> 
> You are not thinking logically, there is no secularist involved in this, its Islamists all the way.


 
Nahi Bhai meray... Zardari and Musharaf are secularists... they never implemented anything from Islam in Pakistan... anyway... I edited my previous post there... the first post was written in a hurry... 

If they have killed 35 000 people, we have also killed many innocent people by allowing drone strikes against our own people... we do not have the moral high ground here...


----------



## Hammy007

T-Faz said:


> Very odd argument, you call me a secularist and then say that I don't even understand secularism.
> 
> Similarly, I have never stated that Zardari and Musharraf are Islamists, I said that they are not secularists as you claim them to be. They keep religion and state together when a secular leader would strive to separate it.
> 
> 
> 
> Aggression?
> 
> They have killed 35,000 Pakistani's, should we sing love songs to them?
> 
> Do you think they will stop bombing and killing Pakistani's if we back away.
> 
> The only humiliation is that we cannot defeat these terrorists, the whole world is laughing at us for our incompetency, our complicity and our double game.
> 
> You are not thinking logically, there is no secularist involved in this, its Islamists all the way.


 
actually i agree with him this time, you are muslim but you dont understand islam, you declare 'muslim' terrorists, but the religion islam doesnt make one terrorist, it denounce terrorism

secularism is a believe which doesnt always allow to restrict the religion, just the politics and religion is not involved, secularism allows freedom of practicing religion, if some communities are conservative, secularism doesnt allow govts to impose their liberal believes on those societies

secularism doesnt allow to exterminate the ideology of some people

secondly the statistics of 35,000 pakistanis being killed also involves drone attacks, more pakistanis have been killed through drone attacks then the internal attacks, but you seem to demand the drone attacks, you logic has been very flawed, and this muhmmad dude is right this time

lastly musharraf was a staunch secularist, as is the current PPP govt, and both sold the country to their western masters, so next time one would insure those secularists dont even come to power because all secularists are western sell out


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## macnurv

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Sadly its the favorite pastime of some of our dear members here... You forgot another favorite mantra of theirs... Zia Zia Zia...


 
Yes no one should say a word against Shaheed-e-Zalallat, Zia Ul Haq.


----------



## Watani

F-16_Falcon said:


> You Afghans are the main reason of all issues in Karachi and entire Pakistan.


Oh ye shameless us, for creating tensions like MQM-ANP, Shia-Sunni, Mohajer-Pashtun, Baloch-Punjabi, TTP-Pak government, etcetera etcetera. Even bigger shame is that we never realised we are capable of so much.....

We got a beautiful saying in Pashtu for ignorants, me kawa pe cha tse dar ba shi pe tah.

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## FNFAL

what an eventful year for pakistan..action packed to say the least...the raymond davis case, drone attack fiasco,the Osama killing, the suicide bombing at the para mil centre and now this.
But then this was expected.... you never keep a snake as a pet...

The next 6 months would be both interesting and decisive for pakistan


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## mxpctlk

Don't know much about the terrorists who briefly took over the navy base, or the details of how they managed it. As for them destroying the Pakistani surveillance aircraft - why wouldn't they? Why would they even need a reason? It was there. 

As for what foreign power might be behind such acts -look at who would benefit. Certainly not the US. What's one more or less P-3?

Maybe the terrorists if the P-3 was being used to hunt them down / provide for Pakistani security.

Maybe the Chinese, who will do what they can to promote their agenda of increasing their influence while diminishing that of the U.S. 

If China can fan the flames of Pakistani nationalism, point to an internal terrorist threat and lay blame somehow on the U.S., while offering "friendship" and financial incentives -- why not? 

Odds are, a combination of interests designed to anger people and embarass the Pakistani military.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Lt. Yassir Abbas SHAHEED was to be married in four months. He was the only brother of three sisters.

He died defending the country. Nothing --material or immaterial can ever win you this honour. 






















Let us HONOUR and NEVER FORGET the supreme sacrifices made by the service men. They require the nation to stand behind them and support them whole-heartedly.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

niaz said:


> Just heard on ARY that there were 10 to 12 terrorists. There were some facilitators who got this group inside the base. Target was the 2 PC-3&#8217;s. The ones who died were the section assigned to hold off the PN Commandos to give the &#8216;plane destroyers&#8217; time to get away.
> 
> Also indication are 2 or 3 may have been arrested but officially denied. Apparently one of the people involved in helping these terrorist (apparently a member of Lashkar Jhangvi- splinter group of SSP) has already been arrested based on the info provided by those arrested. Pray tell me aren&#8217;t those who carried out this attack and those who helped these elements enemies of Pakistan?
> 
> Problem remains that enemies of Pakistan have found help thru followers of fundamentalist Islam in all strata of the Pakistan polity. This is evident from the fact that even some members of this august forum come out in support of these element without realizing that they are indirectly helping enemies of the State thru their misguided loyalties.
> 
> Al Qaeda, TTP, Takfiris and Salafin are not there for the propagation of true Islam. These groups including main stream parties such as JUI & JI are here to grab political power. Only difference is that JUI & JI take the election route whereas all others use the brute force and terrorism to achieve their end. Naïve Muslims think that when they support extremist groups they are helping Islam; instead in their ignorance they are supporting out and out murderers.
> 
> I was against US drones until attack on PNS Mehran. Since then I am convinced that Takfiris, Salafin and Khilafat loving section of Pakistan society will never let the cancer of extremism be eliminated by Pakistani forces. Now I am of the opinion that only way is to stop the growth of this malignant ulcer on the face of Pakistan and Islam is thru US drone attacks.
> 
> Finally it is impossible not to bring ideology in this discussion. One party want a progressive and peaceful Pakistan, the other a Saudi Arabian or Afghan style Taliban state.
> 
> I for one don&#8217;t want Pakistan to be a secular state; at the same time I wouldn&#8217;t want Pakistan to be a Sunni Wahhabi theocratic state either. I crave for the Pakistan as she was from 1947 until advent of the bigot Zia. We were Muslims then and are Muslims now. If we are misguided, we will answer to the Almighty on the day of judgement. We don&#8217;t want a Saudi origin Al Qaeda group or Sufi Mohammad to whip us to be good Muslims nor do we want a dark age Khilafat headed by an ignorant mullah as &#8216;Amirul Momeneen&#8217; to choke us to death.


 
Well i ll only respond to your war mongering here... becoming the devil's advocate so to speak...

The only way to finish off the anti Islamic Secularist scum section of Pakistan (such as yourself... since you mention the Khilafat lovers to be legitimate targets of these drone attacks) is to keep striking them thru terrorist attacks and weaken them on all fronts... 

The following part is my own... 

We certainly want the light of Khilafat and we want Pakistan to come out of its current darkness... Like it or not... one way or the other it will happen... I can promise you all that... if you dont see it happening within four and a half years time from now inshaAllah, you come back and make fun of me...


----------



## AsianLion

Luftwaffe said:


> There is some BS information coming from certain members, refrain from posting lies..
> 
> I am extremely disappointed with Govt. It is so wrong to suggest to award Nishan-e-Haidar to one person and leave out rest. Thousands of soldiers died in Waziristan/Sawat and all over Pakistan and they're not even awarded anything while mr. yassir is possibly might get nishan-e-haidar, many generals and colonels, majors, captains have sacrificed their lives this is so wrong this is really turning into a sindh card and "shia favored" to award nishan-e-haidar to certain people of certain sect and leave out the rest.



Besides, I donot think Nishan-e-Haider should be be given for Terrorism. Sitar-e-Bisaalat is ok! no ?

This is total Bullshit my PM Gillani & PPP.


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## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Nahi Bhai meray... Zardari and Musharaf are secularists... they never implemented anything from Islam in Pakistan... anyway... I edited my previous post there... the first post was written in a hurry...



Musharraf said this:



> Pakistan was meant to be an Islamic republic and is certainly not a secular state.



BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Pakistan 'not meant to be secular'

How is he secular then?

Zardari is not a secular leader either, his daddy and him were part of the Zia gov, they never voted against any Islamic legislature.

Zardari has not repealed any Islamic law.



> If they have killed 35 000 people, we have also killed many innocent people by allowing drone strikes against our own people... we do not have the moral high ground here...


 
I am against drone strikes too but I believe the only way to stop them is to eradicate the militants.

Its not like I approved the drone strikes, its not like I am killing anyone.

It was the MMA Provincial gov under Gen. Mush which allowed this, the same Gen. Mush you call a secularist.

Why would a secular leader put hardliners in power?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Lt. Yassir Abbas SHAHEED was to be married in four months. He was the only brother of three sisters.
> 
> He died defending the country. Nothing --material or immaterial can ever win you this honour.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Let us HONOUR and NEVER FORGET the supreme sacrifices made by the service men. They require the nation to stand behind them and support them whole-heartedly.


 
Inalilahe wa ina ilahe rajioon


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## FNFAL

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> If they have killed 35 000 people, we have also killed many innocent people by allowing drone strikes against our own people... we do not have the moral high ground here...



oh god!!! Dont tell me that you value the blood of your brethen so cheaply so as to compare the figures in killings adn even try to offer justification ...god help pakistan


----------



## khurasaan1

mxpctlk said:


> Don't know much about the terrorists who briefly took over the navy base, or the details of how they managed it. As for them destroying the Pakistani surveillance aircraft - why wouldn't they? Why would they even need a reason? It was there.
> 
> As for what foreign power might be behind such acts -look at who would benefit. Certainly not the US. What's one more or less P-3?
> 
> Maybe the terrorists if the P-3 was being used to hunt them down / provide for Pakistani security.
> 
> Maybe the Chinese, who will do what they can to promote their agenda of increasing their influence while diminishing that of the U.S. If China can fan the flames of Pakistani nationalism, point to an internal terrorist threat and lay blame somehow on the U.S., while offering "friendship" and financial incentives -- why not?
> 
> Odds are, a combination of interests designed to anger people and embarass the Pakistani military.


 
Oh Yes! Ur right .....Raymond Davis was working for China too then.....umm.......and blaming everything on poor CIA....


----------



## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> Musharraf said this:
> 
> 
> 
> BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Pakistan 'not meant to be secular'
> 
> How is he secular then?
> 
> Zardari is not a secular leader either, his daddy and him were part of the Zia gov, they never voted against any Islamic legislature.
> 
> Zardari has not repealed any Islamic law.
> 
> 
> 
> I am against drone strikes too but I believe the only way to stop them is to eradicate the militants.
> 
> Its not like I approved the drone strikes, its not like I am killing anyone.
> 
> It was the MMA Provincial gov under Gen. Mush which allowed this, the same Gen. Mush you call a secularist.
> 
> Why would a secular leader put hardliners in power?


 
Said this??

What does saying has to do with anything... He said a lot of things... does nt make him an Islamist either my friend... 

You seem very confused about this subject... Secularism my dear is the separation of state from religion... Musharaf did everything in his power to keep religion and state separate as it is the case today... calling something Islamic does nt make it Islamic.. how many times do I have to tell you this??

As long as our country adopts Capitalism in its economics, Democracy in its legislation, allows feudalism, nationalism and all sorts of these cancer ISMS... how can you consider Pakistan as "Islamic"

You think Taliban were following Islam by denying women the obligation of getting educated?? Get some perspective here yaar... You think Saudi Arabia is Islamic by banning women from driving?? I can give you a million examples such as these... if you want to take the word of Musharaf or Zardari on these issues well then they are both angels and the best gift of God that Allah blessed us with in Pakistan... after Molana Fazool Ur Rahman... what does statements have anything to do with anything?? Dont you see the reality on the ground?

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## Patriot

These P3's were provided by US - Do you really think they would be afraid of them?Looking at our navy's size i doubt it could survive onslaught of any fleet of US Navy.You people should write novels.


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## khurasaan1

somebozo said:


> It is fascinating that the janglee terrorist who know crack about aircraft came to mount a precise attack against survelliance aircrafts and were wise enough in tactics as well well versed with directions inside the base. Some forgien agency is at work here and mullahs are know to sell religion for dollars. Throughout the history the mullahs have not done anything good other than mutilating religion for money.


 
I guess u dont know about the history of Mullahs....thay have been created and implanted on us by British MI6 when they ruled us for last 150 years....


----------



## Nothing

> now we all know indians are in afghanistan, they are supporting terrorism in balochistan which our presidents have cleary declared and that they have the proves..


Original Post By Hammy007




Do you trust your president .... Even he took advise from USA before selection of your PM and told USA to droned your motherland as much as possible..


----------



## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

As for the MMA... Musharaf used them to stay in power... I think MMA and groups such as them are even worst than groups that do not identify with Islam such as PPP or PML... because the other parties dont use the name of Islam for their dirty games in politics... 

and as far as saying is concerned... MMA has always said they are against drone strikes...


----------



## Watani

Nothing said:


> Do you trust your president .... Even he took advise from USA before selection of your PM and told USA to droned your motherland as much as possible..


Whom is this question pointed to?


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## Luftwaffe

Any Photographs of soldiers as well? 

Many Many civilians have died losing their whole family in terrorist attacks with daughters and sons getting married the next day. Please honor all of those Pakistanis.


----------



## T-Faz

Hammy007 said:


> actually i agree with him this time, you are muslim but you dont understand islam, you declare 'muslim' terrorists, but the religion islam doesnt make one terrorist, it denounce terrorism



Mera bhai, I am not calling them Muslim, they say they are Muslims themselves and who am I to declare them Non-Muslims.

The terrorists say they are Muslims, I did not say it.



> secularism is a believe which doesnt always allow to restrict the religion, just the politics and religion is not involved, secularism allows freedom of practicing religion, if some communities are conservative, secularism doesnt allow govts to impose their liberal believes on those societies
> 
> secularism doesnt allow to exterminate the ideology of some people



True, in secular system you can follow your religion openly and any way you like. The only limitation is that the state will remain neutral in the matter of religion, the good thing about a secular system is that you can even implement Islamic provisions for Muslim, if they like to live under them



> secondly the statistics of 35,000 pakistanis being killed also involves drone attacks, more pakistanis have been killed through drone attacks then the internal attacks, but you seem to demand the drone attacks, you logic has been very flawed, and this muhmmad dude is right this time



No, more have died in terrorist attacks but many have died in drone strikes too and the Gov should have never allowed them.

We should have gone after the terrorist themselves, I am against the drone strikes and the only way to stop them is for our own selves to launch covert attacks against the militants.



> lastly musharraf was a staunch secularist, as is the current PPP govt, and both sold the country to their western masters, so next time one would insure those secularists dont even come to power because all secularists are western sell out


 
No, he was not, read this:

BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | Pakistan 'not meant to be secular'

PPP was the first government to make Islam the state religion, it defined what a Muslim was, it brought in laws banning Alchohol gambling etc.

How can it be secular?

PPP is not a secular party: Mehdi Hasan | BottomNews


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

FNFAL said:


> oh god!!! Dont tell me that you value the blood of your brethen so cheaply so as to compare the figures in killings adn even try to offer justification ...god help pakistan


 
speak when spoken to Indian... the one I m talking to understood what I was saying here... Drone strikes are one of the fundamental reasons why militants are gaining support against Pak Army... its as black and white as anything can ever become...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

anyway guys... i think we are deviating slightly from the topic... we can continue our discussion on secularism/islam some other time... back to topic...


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T Faz... Nimaz tak he agar Islam ko rakha to phir Islamic Economic system ka kya karo gay??

ok back to topic... 

folks... Uncle Hameed Gul has written that this operation was backed by the US... I can proudly say that I said this much before he did...

This operation has India and America written all over it...


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## Nothing

Watani said:


> Which proves? And where are they?


 


Watani said:


> Whom is this question pointed to?


 
To "Hammy007"... not you friend


----------



## Hammy007

Watani said:


> Which proves? And where are they?


 
ask your hamid kerzai who said that indians are supporting balochi eparatists, also ask the bramdakh bughti ho spends lots of his time in afghanistan


----------



## Watani

Hammy007 said:


> ask your hamid kerzai who said that indians are supporting balochi eparatists, also ask the bramdakh bughti ho spends lots of his time in afghanistan


I am not in touch with Karzai nor Bugti, but since you are then you tell me. Which proves and where are those?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Watani said:


> Which proves? And where are they?


 
gulftoday.ae | Karzai admits Brahamdagh presence

US embassy cables: Karzai admits to sheltering Baloch nationalists | World news | guardian.co.uk

Ur govt is in bed with the indians and is supporting known terrorists.

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## AsianLion

Lieutenant Syed Yaser Abbas Shaheed-Saviour of PNS Mehran « MAIN JHOOT BOLTA HUN (I&#039;M A LIAR)

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## F-16_Falcon

Patriot said:


> These P3's were provided by US - Do you really think they would be afraid of them?Looking at our navy's size i doubt it could survive onslaught of any fleet of US Navy.You people should write novels.


 
But those P3C were our best anti submarine aircrafts. they would have serious threats against any external aggressions.


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## Watani

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Ur govt is in bed with the indians and is supporting known terrorists.


I asked for proves of how Afghanistan is supporting terrorism in Pakistan? In which terror activities operated by Bugti (IF any was operated) had support of the Afghan government? Oh and by the way, his destination seems to be Switzerland nowadays.

Now tell me, in whose bed was Osama caught?

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## F-16_Falcon

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Ur govt is in bed with the indians and is supporting known terrorists.



+1. You said something true.


----------



## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> T Faz... Nimaz tak he agar Islam ko rakha to phir Islamic Economic system ka kya karo gay??
> 
> ok back to topic...
> 
> folks... Uncle Hameed Gul has written that this operation was backed by the US... I can proudly say that I said this much before he did...
> 
> This operation has India and America written all over it...


 
Islamic economic system to secular country mein bhi implement ho sakta hai.

As for Uncle Hameed Gul, don't listen to him, he is one of the fathers (baap) of all the problems we face today.

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## Hammy007

T-Faz said:


> Islamic economic system to secular country mein bhi implement ho sakta hai.
> 
> As for Uncle Hameed Gul, don't listen to him, he is one of the fathers (baap) of all the problems we face today.


 
even your musharraf said that the afghan policy during soviet attack was the need of time and was right, just look up musharraf videos couple of days ago


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## Hammy007

Watani said:


> I asked for proves of how Afghanistan is supporting terrorism in Pakistan? In which terror activities operated by Bugti (IF any was operated) had support of the Afghan government? Oh and by the way, his destination seems to be Switzerland nowadays.
> 
> Now tell me, in whose bed was Osama caught?


 
what?? do you have a pea sized brain, indians are supporting the terror, so why are afghanis not stopping the sourse of terror from their territory, your kerzai sells out for few dollars, when he was in pakistan he was loyal to pakistan as long as he ate pakistani food and breathed pakistani air, but then he became loyal to america and he barks on american dictation

his cousin is a drug smuggler, what laws he are following you must know that from experience..


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## Watani

^ Even Pak government once was loyal to American Dollars, till the date your government was benefiting. What happened now? Speaking of selling, how much did it cost Davis to buy the innocent dead bodies? And it's you who says your government got 'proves' of Indian terrorism through Afghanistan, so, where is it? And why hasn't it been presented to the world yet?

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## T-Faz

Hammy007 said:


> even your musharraf said that the afghan policy during soviet attack was the need of time and was right, just look up musharraf videos couple of days ago


 
My Musharraf, what has he got to do with me?

That policy of joining the Americans for the great Jihad was a shortsighted policy to further certain interests that backfired.

As for Gen. Mush, he stated this:



> *We poisoned Pakistani civil society for 10 years when we fought the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 1980s. It was jihad and we brought in militants from all over the world, with the West and Pakistan together in the lead role. After the withdrawal of the Soviet troops, the West left Pakistan with 25,000 mujahedeen and al-Qaida fighters, without any plan for rehabilitation or resettlement.* While you were mostly concerned with the reunification of Germany, we had to cope with this. Now you expect Pakistan to pull out a magic wand and make all of this suddenly disappear? That is not doable -- this will take time.



SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf: 'Pakistan is Always Seen as the Rogue' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International


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## S.M.R

Porus said:


> *How did they found out that those who managed to escape were Pakistanis?* And as far as I know Uzbeks normally have broad and flat faces although according to Rehman Malik the terrorists who were killed had sharp features.


 
Becuase we have a mindset that there cannot be foreign involvement, as whatever is being done is planned by a buddu mullah in some maddrassa. That buddu is such a technically strong that he manufactures night vision goggles, automatic rifles, ammo etc within that maddressa, without any help. When someone talks about their capabilities, he is said to be living in state of denial.

Our enemies are continuously feeding these terrorists, they attack in a professional manner, be it attack on sri lankan team, GHQ, pns mehran, qadiyani worship places etc., Abc comes out form hole and accepts the responsibility, and investigation comes to an end before it is started. And statement by govt. Officials ' ttp has done this' we need more drone attacks.

We found massive evidences of indian involvemnt that included indian ammo, at least a badduh mullah cannot grow that ammo in garden of maddressa.

I am not a mullah. I am a clean shave person who wear tie with two piece suit. And of the opinion that maddressa should be banned; any mullah delivering hate speech should be fcuked till death.


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## Hammy007

T-Faz said:


> My Musharraf, what has he got to do with me?
> 
> That policy of joining the Americans for the great Jihad was a shortsighted policy to further certain interests that backfired.
> 
> As for Gen. Mush, he stated this:
> 
> 
> 
> SPIEGEL Interview with Pervez Musharraf: 'Pakistan is Always Seen as the Rogue' - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International


 
ok ill try to find out the video and then post here, everybody knows musharraf is a big hypocrite, according to guardian, he made pacts with americans to let them attack on our soil

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## Alperen

INA LILLAHI WA INA ILEHI RAJIOON

Our prayers with you my brothers


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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> gulftoday.ae | Karzai admits Brahamdagh presence
> 
> US embassy cables: Karzai admits to sheltering Baloch nationalists | World news | guardian.co.uk
> 
> Ur govt is in bed with the indians and is supporting known terrorists.


 
There is a big difference between giving somebody asylum and letting him set up training camps.Karzai in the links you provided clearly stated he was not interested in keeping them, they were allowed since they asked for asylum. He avoided contact with Bugti for the sake of good relations with Pakistan, perhaps you should read the whole thing not what benifits the position you hold.
Do you want me to send you the links of terrorists getting training in NW and then conducting terrorist attacks in Kabul? Fromt the start till the end! The Afghan gov has asked for proofs of us supporting BLA, which your gov hasnt provided while you can find proofs to our claims even on internet!

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## Abu Zolfiqar

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## FNFAL

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> speak when spoken to Indian... the one I m talking to understood what I was saying here... Drone strikes are one of the fundamental reasons why militants are gaining support against Pak Army... its as black and white as anything can ever become...


 
i need no permission from you to keep my view point on this forum, specially when you dare to bring up such nonsensical comparisons.

its a circle, drone attacks are not that the US wants to splatter the blood of civvy`s...they are there because your incompetent govt along with its army cannot deal with terrorism without cutting deals with the terrorist.this leads to needless loss of civvys..hence the rage

This circle has to broken at one point. Pakistan is not in a position to ask US to stop it attacks..Easier would be if you folks could actually get down to the task of eradicating terrorism once and for all .This would save yopu from these *moments* of humiliation in the intl arena

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## Abingdonboy

innocentboy said:


> Becuase we have a mindset that there cannot be foreign involvement, as whatever is being done is planned by a buddu mullah in some maddrassa. That buddu is such a technically strong that he manufactures night vision goggles, automatic rifles, ammo etc within that maddressa, without any help. When someone talks about their capabilities, he is said to be living in state of denial.
> 
> Our enemies are continuously feeding these terrorists, they attack in a professional manner, be it attack on sri lankan team, GHQ, pns mehran, qadiyani worship places etc., Abc comes out form hole and accepts the responsibility, and investigation comes to an end before it is started. And statement by govt. Officials ' ttp has done this' we need more drone attacks.
> 
> We found massive evidences of *indian involvemnt that included indian ammo, at least a badduh mullah cannot grow that ammo in garden of maddressa.*
> 
> I am not a mullah. I am a clean shave person who wear tie with two piece suit. And of the opinion that maddressa should be banned; any mullah delivering hate speech should be fcuked till death.


 
Not single shred of evidence to back up immature claims. If there was a SINGLE piece of evidence similar to the facts India presented after Mumbai then your Govt would be shouting from the rooftops as such. But there is none and instead it is just BS conspiracy theories- Pakistan's second biggest export.


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## T-Faz

Hammy007 said:


> ok ill try to find out the video and then post here, everybody knows musharraf is a big hypocrite, according to guardian, he made pacts with americans to let them attack on our soil


 
Musharraf denied that:

Musharraf denies &#8216;US secret deal&#8217; reports &#8211; The Express Tribune

He also sued them:

Musharraf


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> There is a big difference between giving somebody asylum and letting him set up training camps.Karzai in the links you provided clearly stated he was not interested in keeping them, they were allowed since they asked for asylum. He avoided contact with Bugti for the sake of good relations with Pakistan, perhaps you should read the whole thing not what benifits the position you hold.
> Do you want me to send you the links of terrorists getting training in NW and then conducting terrorist attacks in Kabul? Fromt the start till the end! The Afghan gov has asked for proofs of us supporting BLA, which your gov hasnt provided while you can find proofs to our claims even on internet!


 
is that the proper thing to do?

knowing that he has the blood of Pakistanis on his hands, do you provide ''asylum'' to people who are fleeing from justice


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## FNFAL

innocentboy said:


> B
> 
> We found massive evidences of indian involvemnt that included indian ammo, at least a badduh mullah cannot grow that ammo in garden of maddressa.
> .


 
link to you evidence???


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## S.M.R

Luftwaffe said:


> There is some BS information coming from certain members, refrain from posting lies..
> 
> I am extremely disappointed with Govt. It is so wrong to suggest to award Nishan-e-Haidar to one person and leave out rest. Thousands of soldiers died in Waziristan/Sawat and all over Pakistan and they're not even awarded anything while mr. yassir is possibly might get nishan-e-haidar, many generals and colonels, majors, captains have sacrificed their lives this is so wrong this is really turning into a sindh card and "shia favored" to award nishan-e-haidar to certain people of certain sect and leave out the rest.


What non sense, are you out of ur mind? Sindh card, shia favored what rubbish.

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## omer85

it is disgusting to hear and read again and again that there must be or there is foreign involvement in all the terror acts in Pakistan. while not a single person is talking about what is our own role in all of this ? countries like india cannot harm Pakistan, unless we present then with an oppurtunity. ofcourse USA is a different ball game altogether.

and for those who are uttering BS about Nishan-e-haider for Lt. Yasir Shaheed, you guys should be ashamed on calling yourselves Pakistanis. you are worst than taliban or indians. so according to you a "sunni muslim" fighting indians can only be awarded the Nisha-e-haider ? so what if the guy was shia ? 

*he had only one identity for which he died, and guess what was that ??? Pakistani *
you see this is the mindset which is mainly responsible for our current situation.

lastly a question for ummah and khilafat fundos, hey guys whos sharia would be implemented in Pakistan ? shia ? sunni ? wahabi ? deobandi ? ahl e hadith ? barelvi ? 
here is an advice, eid ul fitr is coming soon  try celebrating Eid on a single day all over Pakistan.

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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> is that the proper thing to do?
> 
> knowing that he has the blood of Pakistanis on his hands, do you provide ''asylum'' to people who are fleeing from justice


Was is it the right thing? From the afghan POV karzai had to give him asylum under Nanawatai, you being a pashtun yourself perhaps understand that.under international law karzai only provided him political asylum for a short period of time which he is enjoying in switzerland now not any support or safe havens.If Karzai had other plans he could have easily accepted what Bugti was asking him, provided him safe haven in Afghanistan and created hell for Pakistan in Balochistan.This cable is a good proof that Karzai is in no mood to stir up terrorism in other countries, he has enough on his plate.

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## Hammy007

omer85 said:


> it is disgusting to hear and read again and again that there must be or there is foreign involvement in all the terror acts in Pakistan. while not a single person is talking about what is our own role in all of this ? countries like india cannot harm Pakistan, unless we present then with an oppurtunity. ofcourse USA is a different ball game altogether.
> 
> and for those who are uttering BS about Nishan-e-haider for Lt. Yasir Shaheed, you guys should be ashamed on calling yourselves Pakistanis. you are worst than taliban or indians. so according to you a "sunni muslim" fighting indians can only be awarded the Nisha-e-haider ? so what if the guy was shia ?
> 
> *he had only one identity for which he died, and guess what was that ??? Pakistani *you see this is the mindset which is mainly responsible for our current situation.
> 
> lastly a question for ummah and khilafat fundos, hey guys whos sharia would be implemented in Pakistan ? shia ? sunni ? wahabi ? deobandi ? ahl e hadith ? barelvi ?
> here is an advice, eid ul fitr is coming soon  try celebrating Eid on a single day all over Pakistan.


 
mods please check his ip, his ip is not indian, thanks

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 PM ----------

t-faz, list what mush said after 1:21

YouTube - &#x202a;11th Hour with Pervaiz Musharraf - 23rd May 2011 -4&#x202c;&rlm;


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## T-Faz

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Was is it the right thing? *From the afghan POV karzai had to give him asylum under Nanawatai*, you being a pashtun yourself perhaps understand that.under international law karzai only provided him political asylum for a short period of time which he is enjoying in switzerland now not any support or safe havens.If Karzai had other plans he could have easily accepted what Bugti was asking him, provided him safe haven in Afghanistan and created hell for Pakistan in Balochistan.This cable is a good proof that Karzai is in no mood to stir up terrorism in other countries, he has enough on his plate.


 
Amazing, if we go by your logic, then it's perfectly fine for Pakistan to provide refuge to all senior Taliban and Al Qaeda members.

You should not complain about any foreign interference or support then because according to our POV, we had to give them asylum under Nanawate.

Thank God, some of us have been able to shed these medieval practices and customs.

Nanawatai, what a joke?

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## Hammy007

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Was is it the right thing? From the afghan POV karzai had to give him asylum under Nanawatai, you being a pashtun yourself perhaps understand that.under international law karzai only provided him political asylum for a short period of time which he is enjoying in switzerland now not any support or safe havens.If Karzai had other plans he could have easily accepted what Bugti was asking him, provided him safe haven in Afghanistan and created hell for Pakistan in Balochistan.This cable is a good proof that Karzai is in no mood to stir up terrorism in other countries, he has enough on his plate.


 
you are giving asylum tp the terrorist and now making excuses that its a pashtun thing, what nonsense buddy???

bramdagh is a terrorist according to pakistan

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## T-Faz

Hammy007 said:


> t-faz, list what mush said after 1:21
> 
> YouTube - &#x202a;11th Hour with Pervaiz Musharraf - 23rd May 2011 -4&#x202c;&rlm;


 
Musharraf says things according to the gallery he is playing to.

That is the reason why he was made COAS, he is a cunning politician.

When did I refute what he is saying here?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

omer85 said:


> it is disgusting to hear and read again and again that there must be or there is foreign involvement in all the terror acts in Pakistan. while not a single person is talking about what is our own role in all of this ? countries like india cannot harm Pakistan, unless we present then with an oppurtunity. ofcourse USA is a different ball game altogether.
> 
> and for those who are uttering BS about Nishan-e-haider for Lt. Yasir Shaheed, you guys should be ashamed on calling yourselves Pakistanis. you are worst than taliban or indians. so according to you a "sunni muslim" fighting indians can only be awarded the Nisha-e-haider ? so what if the guy was shia ?
> 
> *he had only one identity for which he died, and guess what was that ??? Pakistani *
> you see this is the mindset which is mainly responsible for our current situation.
> 
> lastly a question for ummah and khilafat fundos, hey guys whos sharia would be implemented in Pakistan ? shia ? sunni ? wahabi ? deobandi ? ahl e hadith ? barelvi ?
> here is an advice, eid ul fitr is coming soon  try celebrating Eid on a single day all over Pakistan.


 
What are u talkin abt? who bring sect issues here? nobdy said anythin sunni muslim? hell we live in the 2nd largest shia country which has had several shia head of states and army?




Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Was is it the right thing?* From the afghan POV karzai had to give him asylum under Nanawatai*, you being a pashtun yourself perhaps understand that.under international law karzai only provided him political asylum for a short period of time which he is enjoying in switzerland now not any support or safe havens.If Karzai had other plans he could have easily accepted what Bugti was asking him, provided him safe haven in Afghanistan and created hell for Pakistan in Balochistan.This cable is a good proof that Karzai is in no mood to stir up terrorism in other countries, he has enough on his plate.


 
Listen dude the guy is a terrorist(Black listed by UN)...... If u can give him asylum than what if we give nanawatai (pashtunwali isnt being practised in afghanistan anyways) how will u feel? u are protecting our enemy who is using ur land and indian money to use against our people!


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## omer85

why dont you ask me yourself ? 

i DO NOT need any certificates to prove that i am a Pakistani. got it ?
now i do understand why bengalis hated us and why baloch are against us. it is a sweet phenomenon in our culture that if you do not like what the other person says, label him indian, or if you are some qadri, than simply shoot him . right ?

what made u think that i am an indian ? i support nishan-e-haidar for Lt. Yasir, so i am in indian ? or i am fedup with religous and ethnic divisions in Pakistan so i am an indian ? or perhaps i ask for finding the faults within so i must be indian ???

get some air mate


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## Roby

FNFAL said:


> link to you evidence???



Zaid Hamid videos? There are plenty out there.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> There is a big difference between giving somebody asylum and letting him set up training camps.



Brother im frm baluchistan and i know whats happenin........ These bastards are gettin $$ frm ur pal indians and shelter frm karzai........ They dont have any place to train and get arms in Pakistan........Everybdy in quetta knows tht.



> Karzai in the links you provided clearly stated he was not interested in keeping them, they were allowed since they asked for asylum. He avoided cont
> act with Bugti for the sake of good relations with Pakistan, perhaps you should read the whole thing not what benifits the position you hold.



He couldnt protect bugti coz he was a big target and due to his important character in tht episode.

(I wish he wouldnt have been killed).




> Do you want me to send you the links of terrorists getting training in NW and then conducting terrorist attacks in Kabul?



Are u so naive tht u think terrorists dont have training camps in afghanistan? Hell taliban is a org tht was born in kandahar and as of right now they have shadow governors all over afghanistan.

We also know how NATO and ANA abandons its posts during an operation on our side to let important talib leaders to escape...I.e=Fazlullah,hakeem ullal etc.

Just over a week ago around 600-1000 talibastards attacked an FC post on Pak-Afgh border ........And guess what? they came frm afghan side!!



> Fromt the start till the end! The Afghan gov has asked for proofs of us supporting BLA, which your gov hasnt provided while you can find proofs to our claims even on internet!



Its not a god damn secret when arrested BLA dogs bark abt being sheltered in an indian embassy and gettin training inside afghanistan??? and the truck loads of weapons and med equipment of indian origin seized coming frm afghanistan?

By turning a blind eye towards indian activities and sheltering BLA leadership .... ur not helping us are u?

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## Abu Zolfiqar




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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

T-Faz said:


> Amazing, if we go by your logic, then it's perfectly fine for Pakistan to provide refuge to all senior Taliban and Al Qaeda members.
> 
> You should not complain about any foreign interference or support then because according to our POV, we had to give them asylum under Nanawate.
> 
> Thank God, some of us have been able to shed these medieval practices and customs.
> 
> Nanawatai, what a joke?


 
I have no issues with you keeping the zoo animals with you! as long as they are not active,creating trouble for us and are on a leash.
As far as the custom is concerned i think its an equivalent of the modern political asylum which has been practiced by Pashtuns and Baloch people for thousands of years, i don't see what is so negative that you find about it?Perhaps you should read more about it...


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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

Hammy007 said:


> you are giving asylum tp the terrorist and now making excuses that its a pashtun thing, what nonsense buddy???
> 
> bramdagh is a terrorist according to pakistan


Do you know anything about Political Asylum? It happens all over the world.It has recently happend in Brazil where an Italian ex-left wing activist has been branded as a terrorist by the Italians and are demanding his return while Brazil has simply denied it since he has political asylum! Political Asylum given to him for a short period of time by Karzai is what you claim to be the evidence for Karzai's supposed support of BLA which is absloutely not the case, perhaps you should raise the issue with switzerland now regarding him and see what answer you get.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Was is it the right thing? From the afghan POV karzai had to give him asylum under Nanawatai, you being a pashtun yourself perhaps understand that.under international law karzai only provided him political asylum for a short period of time which he is enjoying in switzerland now not any support or safe havens.If Karzai had other plans he could have easily accepted what Bugti was asking him, provided him safe haven in Afghanistan and created hell for Pakistan in Balochistan.This cable is a good proof that Karzai is in no mood to stir up terrorism in other countries, he has enough on his plate.


 
because of the fact that too many people have abused Pakhtun culture of hospitality (even to enemies) i am ''revisiting'' some aspects of it and losing faith in some of them


i dont believe in harboring anybody who poses a risk to my country -- forget village. And I blame terrorists for the reason why i am FORCED to revisit this sub-cultural policy

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## Watani

Fair enough if Pak government asks for 'terrorists to be handed over to them and fair enough if the asylum seeker keeps troubling Pak regions because of which his surrender is compulsory. No country should be giving refuge to terrorists, BUT if the 'alleged terrorist' isn't practising any terror and in fact leaves the entire continent, then doesn't that mean that along with his departure from the region even his capability of interference vanishes? If Pak government, Iranian government, or whatever government gives refuge to Afghan terrorists (IF they do) then as long as those terrorists indeed seek asylum only and create no more trouble in Afghanistan, then there is no need for them to be handed over to the Afghan government.

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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Listen dude the guy is a terrorist(Black listed by UN)...... If u can give him asylum than what if we give nanawatai (pashtunwali isnt being practised in afghanistan anyways) how will u feel? u are protecting our enemy who is using ur land and indian money to use against our people!


 
Lets forget Pashtunwali if its creating the confusion here, Pashtunwali is not the formal law of the country but it is what Pashtuns and Balochs practice.
Karzai gave him political asylum, he was given *protection NOT support*, is it too difficult to understand? What do you think is stopping your foreign office from raising the issue with Switzerland now?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Do you know anything about Political Asylum? It happens all over the world.It has recently happend in Brazil where an Italian ex-left wing activist has been branded as a terrorist by the Italians and are demanding his return while Brazil has simply denied it since he has political asylum! Political Asylum given to him for a short period of time by Karzai is what you claim to be the evidence for Karzai's supposed support of BLA which is absloutely not the case, perhaps you should raise the issue with switzerland now regarding him and see what answer you get.


 
Political asylum to a politician is different than a terrorist........The example u gave is useless and not viable.......... brahamdog is a UN black listed terrorist accused of a number of murders,kidnapping,anti state activities,hate crimes and watnot!


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## T-Faz

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> I have no issues with you keeping the zoo animals with you! as long as they are not active,creating trouble for us and are on a leash.
> As far as the custom is concerned i think its an equivalent of the modern political asylum which has been practiced by Pashtuns and Baloch people for thousands of years, i don't see what is so negative that you find about it?Perhaps you should read more about it...


 
These Zoo animals should be ten feet under, I have no association with them, neither do I want them in this country.

As for these customs, they are a product of a bygone are and they do not belong in the modern era, morality should be a better guide.

I belong to the same ethnicity partially but I do not believe in such customs which have been used for other reasons in todays world.


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## pakdefender

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Was is it the right thing? From the afghan POV karzai had to give him asylum under Nanawatai, you being a pashtun yourself perhaps understand that.under international law karzai only provided him political asylum for a short period of time which he is enjoying in switzerland now not any support or safe havens.If Karzai had other plans he could have easily accepted what Bugti was asking him, provided him safe haven in Afghanistan and created hell for Pakistan in Balochistan.This cable is a good proof that Karzai is in no mood to stir up terrorism in other countries, he has enough on his plate.


 
So it seems that its easy for any outlaw/murderer/ terrorist/robber to get this type of asylum in afghanistan , Osama bin Laden was also given this type of 'political asylum' based on Nanawatai ( or whatever ) , isnt it ?


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## Watani

^ Osama? Dunno, ask your government.

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## pakdefender

Watani said:


> ^ Osama? Dunno, ask your government.



It&#8217;s a known fact that OBL was given shelter in Afghanistan under this same primitive law , you guys should go and bluff somewhere else

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## Watani

^ It's also proven to the world where he was hiding all those year and where he got killed. Now where you gonna bluff?

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Lets forget Pashtunwali if its creating the confusion here, Pashtunwali is not the formal law of the country but it is what Pashtuns and Balochs practice.
> Karzai gave him political asylum, he was given *protection NOT support*, is it too difficult to understand? What do you think is stopping your foreign office from raising the issue with Switzerland now?


 
You talk of pashtunwali yet in pashtunwali u dnt lie and openly admit of keeping the person whose in ur protection...... U guys urself dont honour pashtunwali............ 

And yes indians are helpin BLA under the nose of afghan govt which is shelterin them and giving an open hand to the indians.


Abt brahamdog goin to switzerland:
Brahamdagh may not get asylum in Switzerland | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Political asylum to a politician is different than a terrorist........The example u gave is useless and not viable.......... brahamdog is a UN black listed terrorist accused of a number of murders,kidnapping,anti state activities,hate crimes and watnot!


 
Brazil holds runaway Italian terrorist of 1970s | World news | The Guardian
There are hundreds of other cases where political asylum has been given to people which are branded as terrorists by their enemy. The discussion started because your fellow countrymen explicitly accuse us of supporting the BLA which has been soundly refuted with evidence YOU provided in the form of wikileak cables.
Its all in the past, the guy has already moved to Switzerland so perhaps you should be discussing this now with the swiss gov not us.Afghan gov has no appetite of supporting insurgents in other countries we already have enough to take care of.

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## Watani

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> And yes indians are helpin BLA under the nose of afghan govt which is shelterin them and giving an open hand to the indians.


No proves = no point of talking. And don't rely on Pak sources only, international sources exists as well you know.

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## pakdefender

Watani said:


> ^ It's also proven to the world where he was hiding all those year and where he got killed. Now where you gonna bluff?


 
if he was indeed there , he was living in run down shack and totally irrelevant and in hiding which means he was no 'guest' unlike when he was in Afghanistan where he was centre stages running camps in the open and enjoying nanawatni or whatever

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Watani said:


> No proves = no point of talking. And don't rely on Pak sources only, international sources exists as well you know.


 
Im frm baluchistan...... a baluch ...... i know whats happenin myself..... GoP wont complain all the god damn time just for fun would it?


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## Watani

^ I don't care where you are from, even I can claim I am from Afghanistan and I know who is supporting terrorists in my country. Sources, SOLID sources, matter much more than your ethnic and personal knowledge/experience.

PakDefender, irrelevant? How and why? Whether hiding or roaming round freely, one thing is sure either the Pak government, Pak army, Pak intelligence services, or ANY Pak association WAS aware of his presence and that also while his men follow his orders in countries like Afghanistan and Iraq. Don't kid yourself by looking for differences because you ain't kidding me.

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## pakdefender

The only job of the afghan ministry of borders and tribal affairs is to create unrest in Pakistan's border areas, this ministry is directly funded by Indians and many of its reps make regular visits to India
12 Afghan govt spokespersons in India - Yahoo! News


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## Watani

^ Where does it say they visit India to cause unrest in Pakistan? Do you guys even know what the word 'prove' means? It doesn't mean providing Lala-sources.

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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

pakdefender said:


> if he was indeed there , he was living in *run down shack* and totally *irrelevant* and in hiding which means he was no 'guest' unlike when he was in Afghanistan where he was centre stages running camps in the open and enjoying


 
 You mean the mansion? What sources of yours say he was irrelevant? last time i checked the US is saying it was his C&C center, leading AQ from strategic down to tactical level! Bramdagh couldn't fart without Karzai's permission while OBL used to make his fav videos for Al-Jazeera meters away from your PMA! 


> nanawatni or whatever


Stop making a clown out of yourself, there are pashtuns among the pakistani forum members too

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## pakdefender

Watani said:


> ^ Where does it say they visit India to cause unrest in Pakistan? Do you guys even know what the word 'prove' means? It doesn't mean providing Lala-sources.


 
You guys do cheap things in tribal areas like issuing id cards to them or encouraging them to cross over the border then you complain that there is free movement of militants across the border .. LOL munafiq


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## Porus

Indians are helping them, Afghans are helping those and Iranians are supporting these and Pakistanis are suppressing every minority and when completely corenered they look outwards for the assistance that is necessary for their survival. Instead of pointing fingers to every neighbouring country we Pakistanis first need to bring our house in order and should stop oppresing minorities as we did to Bengalis and as we are doing to Balochs.

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## Hammy007

watani, you said you are not harbouring a terrorist, but your terrorist shameless army just crossed the border, fired upon pakistanis in jured them, violated our borders and it proves your entire mentality and activities are part of terrorism

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## AAtish

Watani said:


> ^ Where does it say they visit India to cause unrest in Pakistan? Do you guys even know what the word 'prove' means? It doesn't mean providing Lala-sources.


 
Funny, those guys who started jumping up and down when "word" from US was given.. where was your sense of "proof" then?

Just a question..


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## great

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Brazil holds runaway Italian terrorist of 1970s | World news | The Guardian
> There are hundreds of other cases where political asylum has been given to people which are branded as terrorists by their enemy. The discussion started because your fellow countrymen explicitly accuse us of supporting the BLA which has been soundly refuted with evidence YOU provided in the form of wikileak cables.
> Its all in the past, the guy has already moved to Switzerland so perhaps you should be discussing this now with the swiss gov not us.Afghan gov has no appetite of supporting insurgents in other countries we already have enough to take care of.


 
Come on there are easier examples. Dawood, chota shakeel, Maulana massod Azhar. These are all most wanted terrorists by India but they are making merry in Pakistan. They killed scores in India. You shouldn't have to explain to them. They should understand.

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## great

Hammy007 said:


> watani, you said you are not harbouring a terrorist, but your terrorist shameless army just crossed the border, fired upon pakistanis in jured them, violated our borders and it proves your entire mentality and activities are part of terrorism


 
Hypocrite much? You don't have moral right to even question.

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## pakdefender

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Lets forget Pashtunwali if its creating the confusion here, Pashtunwali is not the formal law of the country but it is what Pashtuns and Balochs practice.
> Karzai gave him political asylum, he was given *protection NOT support*, is it too difficult to understand? What do you think is stopping your foreign office from raising the issue with Switzerland now?



All this terrorist bullshit is about pashtunwali after all and the sooner it comes out in the open the better it is

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## Watani

^ Cool the anger, don't let the frustration of not being able to find proves to confirm your idiocy get to you.



pakdefender said:


> You guys do cheap things in tribal areas like issuing id cards to them or encouraging them to cross over the border then you complain that there is free movement of militants across the border .. LOL munafiq


In other words, you got NO proves? Cheers, speaking of munafiqeen.....



Hammy007 said:


> watani, you said you are not harbouring a terrorist, but your terrorist shameless army just crossed the border, fired upon pakistanis in jured them, violated our borders and it proves your entire mentality and activities are part of terrorism


Which terrorists are you talking about? The one which Pak sources claimed fired at Pak army but which accident never got confirmed by either Pak nor Afghan government? Ah, right.



AAtish said:


> Funny, those guys who started jumping up and down when "word" from US was given.. where was your sense of "proof" then?


Be clear, what are you talking about?

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## pakdefender

this guy went to his grave with his wet dreams ...







and so will all those who still have his wet dream take it to their graves

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## Watani

^ Which 'wet' dreams? And since you got nothing to say anymore (as usual) you went back thirty years in history? Pathetic creature, get a hobby!

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## Truth Teller

Porus said:


> Indians are helping them, Afghans are helping those and Iranians are supporting these and Pakistanis are suppressing every minority and when completely corenered they look outwards for the assistance that is necessary for their survival. Instead of pointing fingers to every neighbouring country we Pakistanis first need to bring our house in order and should stop oppresing minorities as we did to Bengalis and as we are doing to Balochs.



So next time we Pakistanis should not defend our country because it may offend Pakistani Pashtuns when we speak the cold hard truth about their Afghan brothers?


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## Watani

^ Which truth? Fairy-tales and Lala-sources?

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## Hammy007

^ yes nothing got confirmed, every thing is conspiracy to malign afghans, afghans are innocents, they act according to international laws 

what ever you tell them they will keep denying at it


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## Watani

^ Yes indeed nothing got confirmed, everything is a conspiracy to malign Pak government, Pak government is 'very' innocent. They act according to international laws. 

Whatever they are being told they will keep denying it. 

No no no, I am not being a copy-cat! I used a different smiley.

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## pakdefender

Watani said:


> ^ Cool the anger, don't let the frustration of not being able to find proves to confirm your idiocy get to you.
> 
> 
> In other words, you got NO proves? Cheers, speaking of munafiqeen.....
> 
> 
> Which terrorists are you talking about? The one which Pak sources claimed fired at Pak army but which accident never got confirmed by either Pak nor Afghan government? Ah, right.
> 
> 
> Be clear, what are you talking about?


 
Bugti's presence and Balach Marri's presence is enough proof that you guys shelter anti-Pakistan elements and historical precedence about the involvement of Indians is there , check out old documents from the US national archives which mention how Mehr Chand Khanna , the former minister of NWFP during British rule , set up the UPF ( United Paktunishtan Front ) in Delhi.


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## iPhone

Watani said:


> ^ It's also proven to the world where he was hiding all those year and where he got killed. Now where you gonna bluff?


Ok so you wanna play dirty, how did Osama get into Pakistan? From Afghanistan where he got your political asylum and formed the most dreaded terrorist organization and planned the worst terrorist attack sitting in your country.

Your argument for giving" just" shelter to terrorists as long as they don't stir **** up is moot as proven by osamas episode. Terrorist don't just sit in their so called nanawati asylum and not do anything, the moment they get a safe house some where, they begin planning.

And don't tell us you kept bugati on a leash with state resources like yours, not to be harsh. Instead of condemning karzais move for sheltering bugati, a known terrorist, here you are justifying his act and the pashtoon practice and your afghani and Indian crowd supporting you, pathetic.


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## Watani

^ Even I could ask you, how did Osama get into Afghanistan in first place? Through Pakistan along with the Taliban, which was only recognized by Saudi and Pak government? See, conspiracies are very easy. And how is Afghanistan Bugti's safe-heaven now and which operations did he operate through Afghanistan? A simple question none of you could answer, nor can. For my part Bugti should have been handed over to Pak government a long time ago but since he wasn't, now go and deal with Swiss government. Keep the 'pathetic' slang to yourself, I could prove otherwise.

PakDefender, No mood for stories again. Now I will only get back to you if you provide me with SOLID sources, SOLID sources of Afghans SUPPORTING terrorists inside Pakistan. I repeat, SUPPORTING, not giving refuge for a while and then make them leave. And this goes for every other story-teller, *sources first and arguments followed.*

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## Hammy007

Watani said:


> ^ Yes indeed nothing got confirmed, everything is a conspiracy to malign Pak government, Pak government is 'very' innocent. They act according to international laws.
> 
> Whatever they are being told they will keep denying it.
> 
> No no no, I am not being a copy-cat! I used a different smiley.


 
well you can copy us, its like husband is happy his wife copies him, we also enjoy when you get teased from us and nag like a talkative wife, you know what i mean

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## pakdefender

Watani said:


> ^ Which 'wet' dreams? And since you got nothing to say anymore (as usual) you went back thirty years in history? Pathetic creature, get a hobby!


 
I pitty your condition, your country is under occupation but your eyes are fixed on mine.
The political opportunists of the past in Kabul saw the Soviet invasion as an opportunity to create turmoil in Pakistan&#8217;s tribal areas in order to fulfill their wet dream about Pakhtunistan.
Today also the political opportunists in Kabaul see the US occupation of Afghanistan as an opportunity to create trouble in Pakistan for the same purpose.

History is great teacher; those who don&#8217;t learn from it are bound to make the same mistakes as the one before them.


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## Watani

^ Your condition isn't much great either and yet your eyes don't move over from Afghan-Indo issues, no? Soviet was invited, they didn't invade and it was this very same Daud Khan who later decided to keep USSR at a distance which caused enmity amongst many in the government. And anti-Daud Khan camps were funded way before USSR's entrance in Afghanistan, inform yourself. And it's this very same forum which claims today's Afghan government is Tajik controlled and most trouble-makers in Pak regions are NA, but as far as I know Tajiks never were interested in Pakhtunkhwa, Pashtunistan, or Pashtun-whatever so keep your nonsense in your pocket please and don't go back to history to justify your point. If you got nothing to say or no prove regarding situation then just give up, you don't HAVE TO apply salt to your wounds.

Hammy-kiddy, same goes to you. Take some rest because seriously you can't be taken.

I am done here, unless some sources about CURRENT situation is provided.

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## pakdefender

Watani said:


> ^ Your condition isn't much great either and yet your eyes don't move over from Afghan-Indo issues, no? Soviet was invited, they didn't invade and it was this very same Daud Khan who later decided to keep USSR at a distance which caused enmity amongst many in the government. And anti-Daud Khan camps were funded way before USSR's entrance in Afghanistan, inform yourself. And it's this very same forum which claims today's Afghan government is Tajik controlled and most trouble-makers in Pak regions are NA, but as far as I know Tajiks never were interested in Pakhtunkhwa, Pashtunistan, or Pashtun-whatever so keep your nonsense in your pocket please and don't go back to history to justify your point. If you got nothing to say or no prove regarding situation then just give up, you don't HAVE TO apply salt to your wounds.
> 
> Hammy-kiddy, same goes to you. Take some rest because seriously you can't be taken.
> 
> I am done here, unless some sources about CURRENT situation is provided.


 
Daud Khan tried to pull off a smart one on the Soviets and he got disposed off
Today Karzai is also trying to pull off similar moves on the Americans and he'll end the same as the ones whose bones he dug out to chew on

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## Hulk

Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad 

Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad
MUZAFFARABAD: Eight mysterious helicopters were seen roaming about in the skies of Muzaffarabad at around 1:15am, Geo News reported.

The copters including seven small and a large remained in the skies for several minutes and returned after inspecting the mountains in Dolai area of AJK capital. 

The roaming of these helicopters has created panic among the people of the area.

Military officials have claimed that these helicopters were of Pakistan and that these were on night mission.

Mysterious helicopters seen roaming in Muzaffarabad

Are they searching for the attackers?


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## Water Car Engineer

The terrorists used ladders to get inside the base..


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## iPhone

Watani said:


> ^ Even I could ask you, how did Osama get into Afghanistan in first place? Through Pakistan along with the Taliban, which was only recognized by Saudi and Pak government? See, conspiracies are very easy. ]


you're the one resorting to conspiracies here. osama was first in Afghnistan where he got a warm reception from the taliban over there and under there rule and support he launched 9/11. that's your shelter. fine you wanna keep on sheltering terrorists from Pakistan or anywhere in the world under your pushtoon customs, you have a pathetic way of justifying it, it's your call.

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## iPhone

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> You mean the *mansion?* What sources of yours say he was irrelevant? last time i checked the US is saying it was his C&C center, leading AQ from strategic down to tactical level! Bramdagh couldn't fart without Karzai's permission while OBL used to make his fav videos for Al-Jazeera meters away from your PMA!



mansion? that shitty slum of a house is considered a mansion? I didn't know Afghans standards of real estate have dropped that much. Even your occupiers are calling it a **** hole now.
What resources your country possess to control a dreaded terrorist? bugati was providing just as much intel to BLA from sitting inside Afghanistan and they were carrying out attacks against PA and innocent civilians.
It's unbelievable you guys would support sheltering a terrorist in your country. OBL or Haqqanis or Mullah Omar or dixie diasy, all of us Pakistanis here and Pak gov't we denounce these terrorist character and in no way support their presence in Pakistan. 
But you guys are just at another level. Not only you admit to providing them shelter, you thump your chests publically doing so. wah kiya baat hai.


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## 53fd

Watani said:


> ^ Your condition isn't much great either and yet your eyes don't move over from Afghan-Indo issues, no? Soviet was invited, they didn't invade and it was this very same Daud Khan who later decided to keep USSR at a distance which caused enmity amongst many in the government. And anti-Daud Khan camps were funded way before USSR's entrance in Afghanistan, inform yourself. And it's this very same forum which claims today's Afghan government is Tajik controlled and most trouble-makers in Pak regions are NA, but as far as I know Tajiks never were interested in Pakhtunkhwa, Pashtunistan, or Pashtun-whatever so keep your nonsense in your pocket please and don't go back to history to justify your point. If you got nothing to say or no prove regarding situation then just give up, you don't HAVE TO apply salt to your wounds.
> 
> Hammy-kiddy, same goes to you. Take some rest because seriously you can't be taken.
> 
> I am done here, unless some sources about CURRENT situation is provided.


 
Next time you talk crap about Pakistan, remember Pakistan is still holding 4 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan today that don't want to go back to Afghanistan, while there are 0 Pakistani refugees inside Afghanistan. Afghan leaders are corrupt to the core: the guards aided 500 terrorists to escape from a Kandahar prison, their puppet president gets the support of landlords, the president's family members are drug lords, foreigners running Afghanistan & ruthlessly killing their innocent Afghan civilians; just a pathetic country made up of pathetic, shameless leaders. That's why Afghanistan has been a war-torn country in its entire history, & will forever be the most under-developed country in the world.

There are no drug lords in Pakistan, Pakistan has a proper judiciary & system in place. The Pakistani president, no matter how corrupt he is, was elected democratically. You don't even have a government. Despite the US spending over $300 billion to improve the poppy ridden ANA and other law enforcement forces, you have fallen back than gone forward. You start cross border firing on our troops as well, in addition to your guards letting 500 terrorists escape, & shooting 8 US troops at an airport. And to add to the mix, we have to take in 4 million of your Afghan refugees in our country. We've been in far worse situations in our past (1971), these events are a walk in the park, & Pakistan & Pakistanis has always managed to overcome hardships & adversities, & that's the difference between Afghanistan & Pakistan.

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## Hammy007

i like watani guy infact...... infact its a pleasure for us that you drop by sometimes and discover our long lasting marital bonds  there is even no divorce in it, saath jiye ge saath mare ge


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Dedicated to my brethern:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...QeftpTHDg&usg=AFQjCNGMhjDv6SP6ckKjqmNxDe1__Gw

WE SHALL OVERCOME.


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## AAtish

Watani said:


> Be clear, what are you talking about?


 
Oh i was talking about OBL's killing in Abbottabad.. did you implemented your 'proof' logic on there also?.. NO.. your government just started jumping up and down.. No one has any proof up until now, and you are referring to it as a developed FACT.. am i not right?


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## Porus

Truth Teller said:


> So next time we Pakistanis should not defend our country because it may offend Pakistani Pashtuns when we speak the cold hard truth about their Afghan brothers?



The brutal Pakistan army has been killing Balochs since decades, actually their massacre had started right after the creation of Pakistan. Even today army sabotages every reconciliation effort that the civilian government starts in Balochistan. The demand of Balochs is justified, they should be allowed to run their own province and the natural resources buried in their mountains belong to them.

Bugti was killed but Altaf the terrorist whose hands are red with the blood of innocent Pashtuns and Sindhis is military establishment's biggest buddy.


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## Hammy007

watani whats your name??

i would like to dedicate a song for you






ps: im the male one

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## iPhone

Porus said:


> The brutal Pakistan army has been killing Balochs since decades, actually their massacre had started right after the creation of Pakistan. Even today army sabotages every reconciliation effort that the civilian government starts in Balochistan. The demand of Balochs is justified, they should be allowed to run their own province and the natural resources buried in their mountains belong to them.



where in karachi are posting form.........porus? somebody check his IP.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Porus said:


> The brutal Pakistan army has been killing Balochs since decades, actually their massacre had started right after the creation of Pakistan. Even today army sabotages every reconciliation effort that the civilian government starts in Balochistan. The demand of Balochs is justified, they should be allowed to run their own province and the natural resources buried in their mountains belong to them.
> 
> Bugti was killed but Altaf the terrorist whose hands are red with the blood of innocent Pashtuns and Sindhis is military establishment's biggest buddy.


 
Army hates altaf... false flagger.

Also its baluch not balouchi or balochs...balouchi is our language.

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## Ahmad Shah Abdali

Watani said:


> ^ Your condition isn't much great either and yet your eyes don't move over from Afghan-Indo issues, no? Soviet was invited, they didn't invade and it was this very same Daud Khan who later decided to keep USSR at a distance which caused enmity amongst many in the government. And anti-Daud Khan camps were funded way before USSR's entrance in Afghanistan, inform yourself. And it's this very same forum which claims today's Afghan government is Tajik controlled and most trouble-makers in Pak regions are NA, but as far as I know Tajiks never were interested in Pakhtunkhwa, Pashtunistan, or Pashtun-whatever so keep your nonsense in your pocket please and don't go back to history to justify your point. If you got nothing to say or no prove regarding situation then just give up, you don't HAVE TO apply salt to your wounds.
> 
> Hammy-kiddy, same goes to you. Take some rest because seriously you can't be taken.
> 
> I am done here, unless some sources about CURRENT situation is provided.


 
Very well said my brother! Some guys here are masters of going off topic when they know they have no chance of winning a debate reasoning in a logical way, i mean look at what they are talking about now 
There is no point discussing what has already been discussed, the links PN provided proved only that Karzai could have given hell to pakistan in balochistan had he wanted to but he did not do so by refusing Nawab Bugtis request for talks.The other Bugti is not our prb anymore he is residing in Switzerland, its between pak and switzerland.

@Iphone you have been answered check older posts, we don't give a rats a$$ who you give asylum to be it Haqqani, Mullah Omar or Santa Claus as long as you put a leash on them.
@Bilal Do you honestly expect us to read your mental masturbation? Your are not even worth a reply! Stop wasting bandwidth for heaven's sake! and the same goes for PD

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## Peshwa

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Army hates altaf... false flagger.
> 
> *Also its baluch not balouchi...balouchi is our language*.


 
He hasnt spelt it as "Balouchi"...

Nevertheless the sh!tshow to follow show should be entertaining..


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## Peshwa

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> *Political asylum to a politician is different than a terrorist........*The example u gave is useless and not viable.......... brahamdog is a UN black listed terrorist accused of a number of murders,kidnapping,anti state activities,hate crimes and watnot!


 
LOL...So assuming Haqqani is under "Political assylum" eh? We already know that Osama was the guest of honor in Pakistan....

Oh wait...you're right, I take it back The Taliban was a "political" organization and Mullah Omar was the President of the Afghanistan recognized by the UN right?

Now start flip-flopping on your comments....Im very eager to see you wiggle your way out...

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## pakdefender

Peshwa said:


> LOL...So assuming Haqqani is under "Political assylum" eh? We already know that Osama was the guest of honor in Pakistan....
> 
> Oh wait...you're right, I take it back The Taliban was a "political" organization and Mullah Omar was the President of the Afghanistan recognized by the UN right?
> 
> Now start flip-flopping on your comments....Im very eager to see you wiggle your way out...


 
moron where in his post do you see any mention of Haqqni and Mullah Omer ?


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## manojb

P3C-Orion video 
[video]http://www.********.com/view?i=f0e_1306203975[/video]


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## pakdefender

Ahmad Shah Abdali said:


> Very well said my brother! Some guys here are masters of going off topic when they know they have no chance of winning a debate reasoning in a logical way, i mean look at what they are talking about now
> There is no point discussing what has already been discussed, the links PN provided proved only that Karzai could have given hell to pakistan in balochistan had he wanted to but he did not do so by refusing Nawab Bugtis request for talks.The other Bugti is not our prb anymore he is residing in Switzerland, its between pak and switzerland.
> 
> @Iphone you have been answered check older posts, we don't give a rats a$$ who you give asylum to be it Haqqani, Mullah Omar or Santa Claus as long as you put a leash on them.
> @Bilal Do you honestly expect us to read your mental masturbation? Your are not even worth a reply! Stop wasting bandwidth for heaven's sake! and the same goes for PD



Brahamdagh was given shelter by you guys, our intel found out his location and put it squarely before your american backers and kharzoi himself, they had no option but to pack him off to switzerland it has nothing to do with the goodness of kharzoi towards Pakistan.
And I can tell you that balls all that floppy eared president of yours can do anything to Pakistan , he cant even go to the toilet without asking permission from his American patrons!


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## Pak_Sher

pakdefender said:


> Brahamdagh was given shelter by you guys, our intel found out his location and put it squarely before your american backers and kharzoi himself, they had no option but to pack him off to switzerland it has nothing to do with the goodness of kharzoi towards Pakistan.
> And I can tell you that balls all that floppy eared president of yours can do anything to Pakistan , *he cant even go to the toilet without asking permission from his American patrons!*



That is not true, he is allowed to go to the toilet whenever he wants, just the whole Presidential Palace is bugged including the toilets and the ISAF hear everything, I mean everything from morning until night, everything. I thought Gen. Petraus is the President of Afghanistan?

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## muse

Is this the Watani thread or the PNS Mehran thread? -- get a grip people.



In the early hours of the attack, we informed you that there was for sure inside help, we also informed you that the so called "deep state" will not allow the people of Pakistan to know the truth of this event - the rest of the world by now knows that the Pakistan armed forces are a a shadow of what they once were and that it is today riddled with Islamists, more shockingly, some of Pakistan armed forces personnel have taken and have imparted instruction weapons, training, Tactics and Procedure to Islamist terrorists. We also highlighted the political dimension, the effort by the armed forces high ups, particularly Kiyani and his supporters, to allow these events to isolate the government, unfortunately, it's the armed forces that are being isolated, an eventuality that only serves to bring into sharp focus that if the armed forces will not own reform, they will be made to own it.

*Mystery surrounds number of Naval base attackers*

KARACHI: Mystery surrounded the number of attackers who had besieged the navy&#8217;s airbase in Karachi as Interior Minister Rehman Malik, Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir and police gave different figures.

A police official claimed that there were twice as many attackers as the number claimed by the government and navy. An FIR of the attack at PNS Mehran, where police was not allowed to enter during the gunbattle against terrorists, was lodged with the Shahrah-e-Faisal Police Station on Tuesday. The FIR number 447/11 was registered under sections 302, 324, 427, 353, 121/34 of the Pakistan Penal Code, 3/4 of the Explosives Act and 7 Anti-Terrorism Act on the complaint of Lieutenant Irfan against 12 unidentified terrorists.

Eight of the terrorists nominated in the FIR are invisible in the whole episode, as reportedly, investigators had, after great difficulty, found the body of the forth terrorist who had blown himself up. In his statement, Lt Irfan said that terrorists were carrying rocket launchers, Kalashnikovs and other deadly weapons. He pointed out that the terrorists, who carried such a huge cache of weapons, had entered the PNS Mehran by climbing the back wall into the base with the help of ladders and cutters. The FIR states that 10 security personnel were martyred while four terrorists were killed during the attack. Security personnel recovered two live suicide jackets, 10 hand grenades, 1 rocket launcher and 4 Kalashnikovs that belonged to the attackers, it added. In Monday&#8217;s news conference, Interior Minister Rehman Malik had said that there were some four to six terrorists and two of them managed to flee from the airbase. But navy officials increased the number of terrorists a day after Malik&#8217;s media briefing. A navy spokesman said he was looking into the discrepancy. atif raza


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## humanfirst

By not taking action against bugti,afghan govt was just returning the favour for pakistan allowing haqqanis to stay in north wazeeristan.bugti is now in switzerland where as haqqanis are still in pakistan-occasionally crossing border and attacking nato/ana and returning to safe heaven.


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## Pak_Sher

I do not believe a word that Rehman Malik and his team say. Though I recommend Rehman Malik for the Guiness Book of World Records for lying with a straight face,


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## muse

Pak_Sher said:


> I do not believe a word that Rehman Malik and his team say. Though I recommend Rehman Malik for the Guiness Book of World Records for lying with a straight face,


 
No doubt, we already know we have been lied to -- For the life of me, I cannot understand why -- these people simply cannot exist without lying to the public - Readers are aware that we have been calling for the armed forces to focus on their key mission, on their core competencies, proficiency ensuring that Pakistan's enemies come to harm, and not politics - unfortunately some reactionary elements cannot even begin to consider that people who cannot even secure themselves or even arrange an election should not have the right to tell civilians legitimately elected to their positions, how to govern the country ---- but friends, these calls are growing louder, it is in the best interest of armed forces to get back to their original role, to once and for all understand that they are supposed to protect the government, not threaten and blackmail it:


EDITORIAL: *Back to the barracks*

The attack on PNS Mehran in Karachi has shaken the people of Pakistan. *When the country&#8217;s most powerful institution, the armed forces, is not safe from such a brutal attack, how can the common man feel safe? Unfortunately, the armed forces do not seem to be ready to take stock of the deteriorating security situation. It was with incredulity that we heard Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir assert that the 16-hour long attack on our naval airbase was not due to any security breach. If losing 10 soldiers, two Orion aircraft and being under siege for 16 hours does not constitute a security failure, then our guardians must share their &#8216;wisdom&#8217; with the rest of the nation and let us know what they consider &#8216;failure&#8217;.* Admiral Bashir&#8217;s response is typical of all high officials in this land of the pure. T*hey never accept their mistakes. But this culture of impunity, particularly where the armed forces are concerned, must be changed. Instead of opaque and unaccountable impunity, all investigations should be transparent and no one should be above the law. Heads must roll and the terrorists who got away should be found and prosecuted. Interestingly, while Interior Minister Rehman Malik claimed that two terrorists managed to escape from the naval base, according to an FIR registered under the Explosives and Terrorism Act in Shahrah-e-Faisal Police Station, six to eight terrorists escaped.*

It is still not clear why it took almost 16 hours to clear the naval airbase when a possible hostage situation has been denied. Granted that a frontal assault in the presence of sophisticated aircraft, fuel and ammunition in the base might have meant more destruction, but *there remain unanswered questions about how the terrorists managed to enter the base so easily. Or is this an indication of how &#8216;watchful&#8217; our security agencies really are? This is not just a security breach but also an intelligence failure of the highest order. We lost our soldiers, we lost millions of dollars worth of aircraft and we also lost our trust in the hitherto unquestioned competence of our armed forces. All this is a result of the decline in professionalism in the military.*

*Pakistan&#8217;s military is busy meddling in politics, keeping tabs on civilians and making money. Instead of wasting time on things that are not central to their concerns, the military should go back to the barracks in letter and spirit. The defence budget being given to them is not to keep snooping on the citizens of Pakistan or entertaining terrorists; it is given to them so that they can guarantee that our lives are safe and we are protected both from internal and external threats. This distraction of the armed forces has led to the institution&#8217;s deterioration. And this is telling in the struggle against terrorism. The terrorists are involved in asymmetrical warfare, which is not easy to combat. For that we need a highly professional force. Pakistan has suffered immense damage because of the military&#8217;s decline in professionalism. In these trying times when the terrorists make it seem so easy to attack any place at will, we need our soldiers to concentrate on the fight against the scourge of terrorism. It is time the military confines itself to the tasks assigned to it, as they are crucial for the country&#8217;s future.*

On another note,* the WikiLeaks exposé about the involvement of Saudi Arabia and the UAE in financially supporting Deobandi and Ahl-e-Hadith madrassas in south Punjab should serve as a wake-up call. Nearly $ 100 million is given to such madrassas annually, &#8220;ostensibly with the direct support of those governments&#8221;. We should not tolerate this even if we consider the two Arab states our &#8216;friends&#8217;. With friends like these, who needs enemies? These petro-dollars are feeding the &#8216;production factories&#8217; of terrorists and extremists. This must come to an end once and for all.*


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## muse

Dedicated to Defense.pk member, a gentle soul, a worthy conscience, Rabzon:

And Friends, below is another editorial from a leading paper - I encourage you to read both the editorials above and below and see for yourself if the TT group has served you, has it provided you with the information yesterday, that the papers are publishing today:


*Misinterpreting the PNS Mehran attack*
By Editorial
Published: May 25, 2011



*The spin doctors have done their much-too-familiar routine. The only conclusion the common man can draw is to believe that India and America and possibly Israel have attacked our navy and destroyed the two Orions meant only to detect Indian submarines. What was the method followed by the TV channels? Ring up just any retired officer from one of the three arms of the military, call him a &#8216;defence analyst&#8217; and let him unload bile on the nation.*

*The &#8216;it&#8217;s-not-our-war&#8217; chorus was hardly punctured by realism, except that the family of the martyred navy aviation officer, Yasir Abbas, pleaded that al Qaeda and the Taliban be recognised as engaged in a war against Pakistan. One channel has the pavlovian reflex of calling the great orator Zaid Hamid every time there is a terrorist incident to hear that the Mumbai attack was done by India itself and that the Taliban and al Qaeda are working for India.* *Then there is a naval officer in Tehreek-e-Insaf who doesn&#8217;t stop rebuking the army for still being linked to the US when, in fact, the US was after our nukes*.

If it was speculation everybody indulged in, *why couldn&#8217;t anyone build a convincing scenario about the objectives of the al Qaeda-Taliban combine behind this attack? The entire world knows that the Taliban are aligned with al Qaeda. The Americans have killed some Taliban and al Qaeda leaders we couldn&#8217;t, but are still guilty in our eyes for &#8216;funding them and using them&#8217; against our valiant army. Al Qaeda has accepted that Osama was killed by the Americans but one TV anchor hasn&#8217;t stopped building the scenario that he was not killed in Abbottabad, just like the conspiracy theory which says that 9/11 never happened the way the Americans say it happened*.

*The phalanx of retired military officers is bent upon reliving its fantasy that the Americans betrayed Pakistan from day one and are once against destroying Pakistan in league with India and Israel. Somehow, the question &#8216;whom does this all benefit?&#8217; has become the catechism of all our spurious analysts. If the terrorists destroyed the Orions, who will gain from this? No one other than India. After that the nation is supposed to take up arms against India because the latter must be involved in the attack on the base. No one asks why would the Americans risk the lives of six of their own citizens [the trainers who were on the base when it was attacked] in the process?

After the world has silently acknowledged al Qaeda&#8217;s ability to train its terrorists to the highest point of expertise in land and sea assaults, we still think that because the terrorists were &#8216;highly trained&#8217; they must have been prepared by India or America. It is no use telling our conspiracy theorists that the Taliban have, in fact, owned up to the attack and are targeting the navy because it is a part of the armed forces. It is no use reminding the &#8216;defence experts&#8217; that terrorists have successfully targeted our ISI officers and attacked the agencies buses, killed our SSG commandos while they were in their mess, attacked our GHQ, our FC trainees, our police personnel, and our political leaders. The refrain still is that we do not recognise who our enemy truly is, meaning it is not the Taliban or al Qaeda.
*
*Why did the navy ignore the attacks carried out on its buses in April? Why was it not possible for its security experts to anticipate that it was an escalating situation and that the next attack would be on a more important target? This is a pattern observed in all terrorist attacks. Why can&#8217;t al Qaeda take revenge by destroying the American-made Orions in PNS Mehran? Why would India &#8212; a friend of the US &#8212; bribe the Taliban to attack PNS Mehran, putting American trainers at risk? Why can&#8217;t we consider the possibility that perhaps the escalating attack on the navy is a prelude to an al Qaeda sea operation? Why do we forget that it developed this expertise before it learned higher forms of terrorism?

We should recognise that we need help globally to fight terrorism made invincible by sympathy within us for its Islamic credentials. Those whom we call our enemies understand our collective psychosis and are still willing to help, albeit with the thought that a heavily infected Pakistan can ruin the world.*

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## MastanKhan

MumbaiIndians said:


> *I think the end-game here is, India and Pakistan should join hands to finish off this western funded terrorism mess(started with Saudi+USA funded Jehad war on Soviets) and form an economic union. Lets bring peace and prosperity for our brothers. Its time to complete what was left in 1947.*


 


Sir,

This can only happen if india takes the HIGH ROAD----and not let mumbai type of attacks stop the progress of peace.

Britain did it----they had the IRA launching mortars at 10 downing street and the british were sitting in the peace talks with the irsh----you know why----they had a 1000 years of history behind them to make them understand that by reacting----the terrorists win.

India has not reached that stage of understanding yet---the day it does----it will find ways to make peace with pakistan regardless of what the hurdles are.

India is not ready and mature enough to let it happen-----. It is feeling too strong----and too important to take that final step.

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## MiloMayor

muse said:


> Dedicated to Defense.pk member, a gentle soul, a worthy conscience, Rabzon:
> 
> And Friends, below is another editorial from a leading paper - I encourage you to read both the editorials above and below and see for yourself if the TT group has served you, has it provided you with the information yesterday, that the papers are publishing today:
> 
> 
> *Misinterpreting the PNS Mehran attack*
> By Editorial
> Published: May 25, 2011
> 
> 
> 
> *The spin doctors have done their much-too-familiar routine. The only conclusion the common man can draw is to believe that India and America and possibly Israel have attacked our navy and destroyed the two Orions meant only to detect Indian submarines. What was the method followed by the TV channels? Ring up just any retired officer from one of the three arms of the military, call him a &#8216;defence analyst&#8217; and let him unload bile on the nation.*
> 
> *The &#8216;it&#8217;s-not-our-war&#8217; chorus was hardly punctured by realism, except that the family of the martyred navy aviation officer, Yasir Abbas, pleaded that al Qaeda and the Taliban be recognised as engaged in a war against Pakistan. One channel has the pavlovian reflex of calling the great orator Zaid Hamid every time there is a terrorist incident to hear that the Mumbai attack was done by India itself and that the Taliban and al Qaeda are working for India.* *Then there is a naval officer in Tehreek-e-Insaf who doesn&#8217;t stop rebuking the army for still being linked to the US when, in fact, the US was after our nukes*.
> 
> If it was speculation everybody indulged in, *why couldn&#8217;t anyone build a convincing scenario about the objectives of the al Qaeda-Taliban combine behind this attack? The entire world knows that the Taliban are aligned with al Qaeda. The Americans have killed some Taliban and al Qaeda leaders we couldn&#8217;t, but are still guilty in our eyes for &#8216;funding them and using them&#8217; against our valiant army. Al Qaeda has accepted that Osama was killed by the Americans but one TV anchor hasn&#8217;t stopped building the scenario that he was not killed in Abbottabad, just like the conspiracy theory which says that 9/11 never happened the way the Americans say it happened*.
> 
> *The phalanx of retired military officers is bent upon reliving its fantasy that the Americans betrayed Pakistan from day one and are once against destroying Pakistan in league with India and Israel. Somehow, the question &#8216;whom does this all benefit?&#8217; has become the catechism of all our spurious analysts. If the terrorists destroyed the Orions, who will gain from this? No one other than India. After that the nation is supposed to take up arms against India because the latter must be involved in the attack on the base. No one asks why would the Americans risk the lives of six of their own citizens [the trainers who were on the base when it was attacked] in the process?
> 
> After the world has silently acknowledged al Qaeda&#8217;s ability to train its terrorists to the highest point of expertise in land and sea assaults, we still think that because the terrorists were &#8216;highly trained&#8217; they must have been prepared by India or America. It is no use telling our conspiracy theorists that the Taliban have, in fact, owned up to the attack and are targeting the navy because it is a part of the armed forces. It is no use reminding the &#8216;defence experts&#8217; that terrorists have successfully targeted our ISI officers and attacked the agencies buses, killed our SSG commandos while they were in their mess, attacked our GHQ, our FC trainees, our police personnel, and our political leaders. The refrain still is that we do not recognise who our enemy truly is, meaning it is not the Taliban or al Qaeda.
> *
> *Why did the navy ignore the attacks carried out on its buses in April? Why was it not possible for its security experts to anticipate that it was an escalating situation and that the next attack would be on a more important target? This is a pattern observed in all terrorist attacks. Why can&#8217;t al Qaeda take revenge by destroying the American-made Orions in PNS Mehran? Why would India &#8212; a friend of the US &#8212; bribe the Taliban to attack PNS Mehran, putting American trainers at risk? Why can&#8217;t we consider the possibility that perhaps the escalating attack on the navy is a prelude to an al Qaeda sea operation? Why do we forget that it developed this expertise before it learned higher forms of terrorism?
> 
> We should recognise that we need help globally to fight terrorism made invincible by sympathy within us for its Islamic credentials. Those whom we call our enemies understand our collective psychosis and are still willing to help, albeit with the thought that a heavily infected Pakistan can ruin the world.*


 
Can't be said in a better way

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## S-2

*"Dedicated to Defense.pk member, a gentle soul, a worthy conscience, Rabzon:"*

Some would call him a liberal fascist. An unconscionable slur. Even in the face of unwarranted personal attacks, though, he remained above the fray.

He has a beautiful soul and is a great friend to Pakistan.

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## Dharmachakra

Sorry , was unable to follow a thread with 174 pages. Can someone put some brief info on how many terrorists involved, how many got killed and how many taken custody.
Also take some pain to put the number of forces that took the pain of taking down these scums and how long it took.


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## Rig Vedic

muse said:


> *Mystery surrounds number of Naval base attackers*



This may have something to do with the Chinese hostages which were freed. Was there any assurance of a safe-passage and/or prisoner release?

China Admits Its Technicians Were Held in Pakistan Base Attack


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## muse

In keeping with the idea that this smells of white wash and over all Armed Forces white wash, read below how the police were treated - they, the Navy, and the Air Force allowed the terrorists in but kept the police out -- stranger than fiction?? read on:

*PNS Mehran attack: Police kept out*
Published: May 24, 2011



KARACHI: As soon as news of an attack at the naval base spread, a posse of civilian law-enforcement agencies, including the police, Crime Investigation Department, Special Investigation Unit, Special Protection Group, Anti-Extremism Cell, Counter-Terrorism Unit, reached the spot. But the navy personnel did not let them in.

&#8220;_This is not good,_&#8220; fumed Anti-Extremism Cell chief SSP Chaudhry Aslam Khan. &#8220;_What can we do now? They are not providing us access.
No need to stay here. We are going back._&#8220;

*Angry officers were turned away from the gates of the PAF Museum, PNS Mehran and PAF Faisal through which army trucks whizzed past.
Many officers just hung back, too cagey to risk being embarrassed by rejection.
*
&#8220;_Leave it, yaar,_&#8220; said a CID official. &#8220;_Yahan par kharey ho kar apni beizzati karwaien kya?_&#8220; He grabbed Aslam&#8217;s arm and steered him away too.

*Later, some police officials also entered but according to reports all of them had to stay at the guardroom.
*
The vehicles of intelligence officials went through as did about three ambulances and fire engines. It seemed as if the entire city&#8217;s ambulances had reached the spot but all of them were turned away.

*Even Karachi police&#8217;s Special Investigation Unit SSP Raja Umer Khattab,* in his silver SUV, *was denied entry. However, a convoy of the Ranger&#8217;s wing commander was immediately let in.*

*Sindh Police Crime Investigation Department&#8217;s senior officials SSP Omer Shahid and SSP Chaudhry Aslam* in their black SUV managed to reach just the parking lot of the museum, but *returned when the Navy Marines began engaging the militants in a fierce gun battle. One or two journalists too sneaked in with the convoy of some of these police officers, but they, too, returned, in one case with bruises on their arms, minutes later. The convoys of Pakistan Army and Rangers, however, continued pouring into the base unhindered till early morning*.


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## muse

S-2 said:


> *"Dedicated to Defense.pk member, a gentle soul, a worthy conscience, Rabzon:"*
> 
> Some would call him a liberal fascist. An unconscionable slur. Even in the face of unwarranted personal attacks, though, he remained above the fray.
> 
> He has a beautiful soul and is a great friend to Pakistan.


 

Can't disagree with that -- it seems the disease of Pakistan has infected those who run this forum -- no apology offered for the great personal attack on this kind individual, no apology offered by abuses hurled at him by a member of this forum's "moderation" team, it's admin team.

Really rather shabby -- but lets see whether decency still exists with the admin and moderation team.

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## Dharmachakra

> The &#8216;it&#8217;s-not-our-war&#8217; chorus was hardly punctured by realism, except that the family of the martyred navy aviation officer, Yasir Abbas, pleaded that al Qaeda and the Taliban be recognised as engaged in a war against Pakistan. *One channel has the pavlovian reflex of calling the great orator Zaid Hamid every time there is a terrorist incident to hear that the Mumbai attack was done by India itself and that the Taliban and al Qaeda are working for India.* Then there is a naval officer in Tehreek-e-Insaf who doesn&#8217;t stop rebuking the army for still being linked to the US when, in fact, the US was after our nukes.


I hope I am not offending the Paks here. This Ziad Hamid guy is a mental manstrubator. The one who takes his words seriously is a just making a fool of himself. Dont encourage him. 
I agree India and Pak are enemies and pak took it as a oath....
"India is my enemy, hence all indians are my enemies. Whenever you see an indian hit him on his face if you dont have a gun handy."
But letting this Ziad hamid like guys on TV to spoil the citizens will only make the worst things much more worse.


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## muse

Well OK - but your point would be better made if you were to choose to use a spell check -- 


But anyways, Adm Bashir insists that the fact that terrorists could infiltrate his base and destroy his aircraft and kill his soldiers and sailors, does not mean there was a security breach -- and so who do you think is going to investigate this attack on the naval station ?? -- Yeah, the same guy who think there's nothing to investigate, after all there was no breach to begin with -- The armed forces continue to hold the government hostage, blackmailed -- your armed forces, your money First Kiyani, then Pasha, then Rao now Bashir - See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil :


*Navy Chief to conduct investigations into PNS Mehran attack: Gilani*
By Express / PPI
Published: May 24, 2011

KARACHI: Prime Minister Yousaf Raza *Gilani has charged Naval chief of staff Admiral Nauman Bashir to conduct the initial investigation of the terrorist attack on PNS Mehran in Karachi on May 22-23.*

Talking to the media in Karachi, the prime minister praised the gallantry and valour of security forces and noted that the sacrifices of security personnel killed in the terrorists attack will not be forgotten.

Earlier, the Prime Minister visited PNS Mehran where the Naval Chief briefed him on the operation against the terrorists.

Gilani then visited PNS Shifa and PNS Rahat, where the injured soldiers are being treated.

He was also accompanied by the Sindh Chief Minister Qaim Ali Shah.

PPI adds

Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani has directed to revisit, improve and upgrade security at all defense installations.

&#8220;_There is need to upgrade security measures keeping in view intentions of terrorists,_&#8221; he said during visit to PNS Mehran Naval Air Base Tuesday. &#8220;_Whatever possible action is required should be taken and government will extend all support,_&#8221; he stated.

Gilani noted that joint action by Navy, Rangers and Police personnel demonstrated that all security forces are united to eliminate terrorists.

Chief of Naval Staff Admiral Noman Bashir briefed on operational response by Naval commandos against the terrorists. He thanked Rangers and Police personnel for extending support to Navy and said this had re-affirmed commitment and determination on their part to deal hidden enemies of the country with iron hands.

The Commander of Response Operation briefed the Prime Minister on prevalent security arrangements and details of operation to wipe out terrorists. The object of operation was to protect lives of other officials and defence assets.

Lieutenant Yaser Abbas did not hesitate to sacrifice his life in line of duty. He said two terrorists who escaped from Naval base were actually facilitators who brought-in equipment and ammunition for their accomplices.


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## Stealth

*Slap on Pakistan's all security organizations "AS USUAL"*


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## muse

Friends:

In a earlier post, we highlighted the think skinned vehicles Pakistani soldiers are transported in and how it's a matter of time that terrorists, in order to maximize casualties will target these vehicles -- but at the PNS Mehran attack, something similar and yet different happened, it reflects the deep and meticulous planning the terrorist did and of course it brings into focus the inside information and cooperation they must have had -- read below:

*Foreigners were attacked during evacuation*
By S. Raza Hassan | From the Newspaper
(4 hours ago) Today


KARACHI: *The bullet-proof vehicles pressed into service to evacuate foreigners from the Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Mehran base immediately after Sunday night&#8217;s armed assault were attacked by the raiders who appeared to be aware of the emergency evacuation plan, security sources told Dawn on Tuesday.*

*It was because of the bullet-proof vehicles that the foreigners &#8212; six Americans and 11 Chinese &#8212; were safely evacuated, said the sources. They added that the vehicles had been hit by bullets, but were not damaged.*

The sources also said that *American contractors were working on a project to upgrade P-3C Orion aircraft.*

It was not before dawn that security forces launched a final assault on the raiders and eliminated them.

Until sunrise, a portion of the base was in control of the assailants, the sources said.

*Ten security personnel were killed and 15 others injured in the 16-hour operation launched to regain control of the base.

Two attackers were hunted down in bushes as they apparently made a run or attempted to hide, the sources said.*

*Two others blew themselves up when security personnel surrounded a building they were in, the sources said, adding that the structure was damaged in the blasts.*

The officer-in-charge had earlier tried to negotiate with them, demanding that they lay down their weapons. But their reply was: &#8220;_We know what you are going to do with us once we surrender.&#8221;_ Subsequently, they blew themselves up, the sources said.

*The officer who attempted to negotiate with the attackers said that the two spoke Urdu clearly and from their accent they appeared to be locals.*

As explained by Interior Minister *Rehman Malik, the raiders took advantage of a blind spot that was not covered by security cameras at the rear boundary wall of the base along a storm-water drain.

They entered the base by cutting the barbed wire and using a ladder to scale the wall.
*
*It was during a search after the operation that security personnel found the cutter and the ladder at the place.

The militants covered an approximate distance of one and a half kilometres from the wall up to the hangar where two P-3C Orion aircraft were parked and attacked the planes with rocket-propelled grenades.
*
*They then moved on and occupied two nearby buildings where they took positions. The militants also took control of &#8220;Tower No.8&#8221;.
After taking up the positions, they kept firing at the security personnel who tried to move towards them or the aircraft.

Perhaps the first casualties were of the naval firemen who were rushing towards the blazing aircraft to douse the fire.

Inside sources said there was so much confusion that security personnel kept trying to use the same road leading to the hangars ahead of which the raiders had taken positions, instead of using an alternative road running along the rear wall that also led to the place.

It was for this reason that most casualties among security personnel took place in one particular area of the base, the sources said.*


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## Roybot

> The bullet-proof vehicles pressed into service to evacuate foreigners from the Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Mehran base immediately after Sunday night&#8217;s armed assault were attacked *by the raiders who appeared to be aware of the emergency evacuation plan,* security sources told Dawn on Tuesday.



That is quite alarming. How does one know about emergency evacuation plan without inside information?


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## Stealth

Musa i respect your posts but 

No one trust on any kind of information provided by Military/Security and Govt and mark my word "In any kind of major conflict with military by some one directly.... this nation NEVER EVER support ANY SECURITY organization of Pakistan" 

mark my word

"Because of Army and govt policies from last 60 years and lie lie.... and everytime lie.... in every event lie.. in every attack in every case military ISPR Govt all security organizations always provide false fake information to the media and to the people today... 99.999.999% people of this nation have NO TRUST not a 0.1% trust on this military and govt.

Our forces chief's and govt statements in every case " ham jhang jari rkaheengay ham terrorist ko nakaam kardengay BULSHITSS statements by BULLSHIT people aur jhoot pe jhoot pe jhoot" 

guess what... a young a very young guy ... (it's not preception its reality) a young guy said to me "I never ever expect any kind of good thing from our military... i dont know why people of this nation giving money to the govt and govt spends $$$ on the military budget... our army chief's said to us everytime ... terrorist are well trained terrorist are very well equiped what a non sense idiotic statements by our military forces chief's when 16 20 30 hours of engagement where is our so called super duper SSG NAVY commando blaa blaa ??? they are not well trained enough ? they are doing excersizes they are getting very good training and a so called terrorist who just trained for very small event and trained for 1 single strike is far far more capable more well trained as compare to any country official Army Navy .. .. i am not atleast capable to understand this non-sense"
....

Extremely Bad!

It is not possible (reality) that 2 guys engaged massive security trained commando's and other special forces groups uptop 16 hours. Or we can say special forces are not well trained or capabel enough to counter 2 or 4 or even 20 terrorist. According to the Liar-Malik terrorist used water pipe line something like that... tu hamnay is awaam nay karna hey secure yaan security hakomat nay karna hey base ko secure man such a idiot statement by liar-malik as usual. Agreed its pure inside job, inside means might be Americans might be any other national who was inside base working with navy provide such information. Anyway what ever it is, the performance of our agency and security is extremely bad not even capable to secure base. The problem is not a single resignation not a single investigation nor any report.


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## muse

roy_gourav said:


> That is quite alarming. How does one know about emergency evacuation plan without inside information?


 

100 percent inside job -- you know there is also a story that there are no records of these individuals in the national database -- now well you may not know this but there have been multiple cases of individuals added and deleted from the national database, as a matter of fact for as little as US$200.00 you can ensure that a particular individual is added or deleted.

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## desiman

roadrunner said:


> India doesnt make its own decisions. All we ever hear is India says xyz and noone believes them. Then USA says xyz because India is regarded as irrelevant or illegitimate.


 
you are making no sense, India has stuck to all its decisions and never moved away from even one no matter who the opponent is. I wonder how you can talk about India's strength's when Pakistan cannot even make a decision, let alone stand by one. If you say decisions taken by India are irrelevant then by those standards Pakistan stopped making decisions in 1947.

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## Dharmachakra

roy_gourav said:


> That is quite alarming. How does one know about emergency evacuation plan without inside information?


 
Hence its an INSIDE JOB? Someone for sure in PAK armed forces is trying to become a billionaire on a foreign land.


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## muse

Stealth said:


> Musa i respect your posts but
> 
> No one trust on any kind of information provided by Military/Security and Govt and mark my word "In any kind of major conflict with military by some one directly.... this nation NEVER EVER support ANY SECURITY organization of Pakistan"
> 
> mark my word
> 
> "Because of Army and govt policies from last 60 years and lie lie.... and everytime lie.... in every event lie.. in every attack in every case military ISPR Govt all security organizations always provide false fake information to the media and to the people today... 99.999.999% people of this nation have NO TRUST not a 0.1% trust on this military and govt.
> 
> Our forces chief's and govt statements in every case " ham jhang jari rkaheengay ham terrorist ko nakaam kardengay BULSHITSS statements by BULLSHIT people aur jhoot pe jhoot pe jhoot"
> 
> guess what... a young a very young guy ... (it's not preception its reality) a young guy said to me "I never ever expect any kind of good thing from our military... i dont know why people of this nation giving money to the govt and govt spends $$$ on the military budget... our army chief's said to us everytime ... terrorist are well trained terrorist are very well equiped what a non sense idiotic statements by our military forces chief's when 16 20 30 hours of engagement where is our so called super duper SSG NAVY commando blaa blaa ??? they are not well trained enough ? they are doing excersizes they are getting very good training and a so called terrorist who just trained for very small event and trained for 1 single strike is far far more capable more well trained as compare to any country official Army Navy .. .. i am not atleast capable to understand this non-sense"
> ....
> 
> Extremely Bad!


 


Stealth, this realization has come to me late but it has come strongly - I understand now, I get it - and while I am a supporter of the Pakistan armed forces, I cannot be a supporter of armed forces that is sympathetic towards her enemy, an armed forces permeated by Islamist ideology and worse of all, an incompetent armed forces.

We have tried to explain that people who have see that the armed forces cannot even organize an election, will not accept that the armed forces dictate to the government what policies it will have to follow or else -- these armed forces have been so busy trying to rule Pakistan, they don't know how to fight, they don't know who the enemy is -- and unfortunately, they will not come to their senses by themselves, they have to be forced to come to their senses -- but if you imagine that the present government will do that, don't bet on it. The present government is subject to blackmail by just about all players, including the armed forces, so they are not going to seek any kind of independent inquiry, after all, their behinds are on the line as well.

So it may be a while and many many more failures on behalf of the armed forces, before we see the realization that these armed forces, as they are presently organized, are part of the problem, not part of the solution.

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## rideto_live

self delete


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## Roybot

muse said:


> 100 percent inside job -- you know there is also a story that there are no records of these individuals in the national database -- now well you may not know this but there have been multiple cases of individuals added and deleted from the national database, as a matter of fact for as little as US$200.00 you can ensure that a particular individual is added or deleted.


 
There were reports that, the terrorists were speaking Urdu and some other foreign language. So they were probably not Pakistanis, but since they were speaking Urdu, they could very well be the Central Asian terrorists who come for training in FATA.



> Military formation: One injured sailor told an official that the attackers "moved and dressed like us". The militants moved in tactical military formation and spoke in military parlance. *They spoke between themselves in Urdu, as well as a foreign language.*



BBC News - &#039;New kind of militant&#039; behind Pakistan Karachi attack


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## mshoaib61



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## Stealth

muse said:


> Stealth, this realization has come to me late but it has come strongly - I understand now, I get it - and while I am a supporter of the Pakistan armed forces, I cannot be a supporter of armed forces that is sympathetic towards her enemy, an armed forces permeated by Islamist ideology and worse of all, an incompetent armed forces.
> 
> We have tried to explain that people who have see that the armed forces cannot even organize an election, will not accept that the armed forces dictate to the government what policies it will have to follow or else -- these armed forces have been so busy trying to rule Pakistan, they don't know how to fight, they don't know who the enemy is -- and unfortunately, they will not come to their senses by themselves, they have to be forced to come to their senses -- but if you imagine that the present government will do that, don't bet on it. The present government is subject to blackmail by just about all players, including the armed forces, so they are not going to seek any kind of independent inquiry, after all, their behinds are on the line as well.
> 
> So it may be a while and many many more failures on behalf of the armed forces, before we see the realization that these armed forces, as they are presently organized, are part of the problem, not part of the solution.


 
Agreed with you. but country like Pakistan where army is rulling since ages any civilian govt (on paper) cant do anything without military approval. Seriously not only innocent civilian our innocent soldiers are dying for nothing man nothing. I am very much very much pro-Pak-Military and hundred times more pro-ISI person before 2 years. I never fully blame our forces the problem is top brass. How they will elect how will elect who was elect by whom. We don't know. We have state with in state called Military. 

IMO we have only one major problem. Implementation of Law, there was no resignation no court marshal from last many years. Why ? Big question mark on that. Can any one have any information what our TERRORIST COURT did from past 10 years ? any single investigation report ? GHQ attack report ? any ISI FIA HQ attacks report ? "No". Problem is our head of state never accept any kind of responsibility because they know, no one dare to hit them!

Rule of Law is the most major problem of this nation. Look at India, India economy is very good it is different discussion why India economy is going better and for what purpose and from whom support, But Indian courts are working very good even before 1990s. 

The problem is "RULE OF LAW".

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## Mav3rick

T-Faz said:


> To secure American interests, they cannot abandon Pakistan.
> 
> A Pakistan run by Islamists will be the worst nightmare for this world, these advisors help formulate their future strategy in regards to this region especially Pakistan.
> 
> Their approach is very positive though.
> 
> FT.com / Comment / Opinion - America must hug Pakistan ever closer
> 
> 
> 
> Islam and Politics in Pakistan - Council on Foreign Relations
> 
> 
> 
> Cry, the Beloved Country


 
Can you explain the term 'Islamists' in your post?


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## fatman17

more reasons why the militants had 'inside help / info'.

1- if the govt. spokesperson is to be believed, how did the militants know of the 'blind spots' of the surveillance cameras (only someone who monitors such details would know!?)
2- 'urdu speaking' 2 militants were speaking clear urdu - this shows that the LeT or Punjabi militant group was involved in this attack!? - TTP has deep links with punjabi militant groups.
3- from the point of entry, the militants took a 'bee-line towards the P3c's, which were 1-1/2 km away. they knew exactly where to go.


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## Mav3rick

fatman17 said:


> more reasons why the militants had 'inside help / info'.
> 
> 1- if the govt. spokesperson is to be believed, how did the militants know of the 'blind spots' of the surveillance cameras (only someone who monitors such details would know!?)
> 2- 'urdu speaking' 2 militants were speaking clear urdu - this shows that the LeT or Punjabi militant group was involved in this attack!? - TTP has deep links with punjabi militant groups.
> 3- from the point of entry, the militants took a 'bee-line towards the P3c's, which were 1-1/2 km away. they knew exactly where to go.




1- Blind spots, surveillance strategies etc. can all be determined by the spy satellites. Did you know that the P3C Orion Aircraft could identify the markings and colour of a ship under a fresh coat of paint to disguise it? What if the terrorists had this kind of intel provided by some one who has access to the latest spy satellites? Or how about the American technicians that were operating/training on the base? They had detailed information on the maintenance cycles of the PC3 Aircraft as well as visual and most likely electronic surveillance of the base from inside.
2 - Point 2 is very weak as I personally know Afghans, Indians and even Bengali that can speak fluent urdu like many of the Pakistani's. And these are civlians......just imagine what a month long course would do to make their accent feel just like home grown. Have you ever heard the American operatives speak Pushto? It's as if the language is their mother tongue!
3- Point 1.


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## Roybot

Whats the story behind those gory photos posted. Are those the terrorists?


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## I M Sikander

SANABIL MIRZA said:


> don't use this word again. They are'nt paid in millions for this. You can't buy their lives. . .


 
what do u mean i should not this word "Paid for". They are getting Plots and privileges that worth millions of Rupees. Just look at the 40 Million Rs. BMW the PN chief came in for press conference. His 17 crore Rs. 800 two yard plots, if they can't do their job what they are paid for, they should be held accountable. 
Pakistani soldiers and arm forces are doing nothing out of this world. Evey solider and army persons of all countries do this job and even sacrifice their lives, we honor them , but we can't afford to turn a deaf ear to their blunders.


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## fatman17

*Yasir laid to rest with military honours * 

Our Correspondent
Wednesday, May 25, 2011 
LAHORE

FUNERAL prayers for Lieutenant Yasir Abbas, who was martyred in Pakistan Naval Services (PNS) Mehran Base attack in Karachi on May 22, was offered in the provincial metropolis here on Tuesday.

Lt Yasir Abbas was laid to rest in Askari-10 graveyard. The funeral prayer was led by Allama Syed Zahid Hussain Naqvi and Punjab Governor Latif Khosa, Punjab Assembly Deputy Speaker Rana Mashood, DG Rangers Punjab Gen Muhammad Nawaz, Commander Central Punjab Air Admiral Bashir Ahmed, Station Commander Lahore Commodore Akbar Naqi, Deputy Director Rangers (Pb) Wali Muhammad, former DG Rangers (Pb) Major Gen Muhammad Yaqub, Corps Commander Lahore, Commander Navy as well as senior officers from the armed forces and large number of people attended the funeral prayer. Touchy scenes were witnessed when the body of Yasir, wrapped in the national flag and flowers, reached the site of the funeral prayer. A large number of people from all walks of life and Yasir&#8217;s family and friends lauded his valour and selfless ambition to defend the country and its assets. 

Yasir got commission in Pakistan Navy in 2005 and was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant in 2009. 

He was the only brother of three sisters and the family was planning his marriage in the near future. Talking to the media, Yasir&#8217;s family members said that he had increased the respect of the nation by sacrificing his life.

Qul for the martyr will be held on Wednesday at 4pm in B-Block Mosque in Askari-10. Meanwhile, Pak Rangers soldier Muhammad Khalil, who also embraced martyrdom at PNS Mehran, was laid to rest at his ancestral graveyard in village Theatre Wali, Narowal, with military honour. Funeral prayers for Navy firefighter Javed Akhtar were offered in Danishabad area in the suburbs of Peshawar.


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## fatman17

Mav3rick said:


> 1- Blind spots, surveillance strategies etc. can all be determined by the spy satellites. Did you know that the P3C Orion Aircraft could identify the markings and colour of a ship under a fresh coat of paint to disguise it? What if the terrorists had this kind of intel provided by some one who has access to the latest spy satellites? Or how about the American technicians that were operating/training on the base? They had detailed information on the maintenance cycles of the PC3 Aircraft as well as visual and most likely electronic surveillance of the base from inside.
> 2 - Point 2 is very weak as I personally know Afghans, Indians and even Bengali that can speak fluent urdu like many of the Pakistani's. And these are civlians......just imagine what a month long course would do to make their accent feel just like home grown. Have you ever heard the American operatives speak Pushto? It's as if the language is their mother tongue!
> 3- Point 1.



watching too many 'bourne' movies are ya! - accept the fact that the armed forces have a 'jahadi' problem which needs to be eliminated asap!

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## SMC

BBC News - &#039;New kind of militant&#039; behind Pakistan Karachi attack



> Some key details:
> 
> A number of officials listed to me their observations, which reinforced the conviction that they were being confronted with a totally different kind of militant, possibly hitherto unseen:
> 
> Military formation: One injured sailor told an official that the attackers "moved and dressed like us". *The militants moved in tactical military formation and spoke in military parlance. *They spoke between themselves in Urdu, as well as a foreign language.
> 
> Clothing and equipment: The militants wore combat fatigues, according to officials - and had night vision goggles, carrying rocket propelled grenades [RPGs]. *"It takes months of training for ease with the goggles, and years to be expert," one official told me*.
> 
> Tactics and a plan: One witness said that even though the militants had clear sight of them, "*they ignored us... Instead, they just aimed RPGs at the two Orions [planes] parked on the tarmac." They were clearly under instructions to destroy military hardware. They also changed tactics easily and broke away in groups, which clearly had different aims.
> *
> 
> Crack shots: "They were excellent shots - as good as any we have," said one security official involved in the operation. They used their night vision goggles to maximum effect, witnesses say - and that was an advantage they had until the SSG-N team arrived at the scene. When the gun battle began, one security official said, it was clear that these men could "hold their own" in a firefight. The fact that they had M16 carbines and sniper rifles also set them apart.
> Officials says all of this is in strong contrast to the Taliban, who adopt an equally brutal but more chaotic mode of attack. "Their best weapon is the suicide bomber - they are notoriously poor shots," one official told me.
> 
> "They were the exception to every rule of Pakistan militant tactics."
> 
> *"They were also not about killing people," one official said. "It was clear they were interested in the destruction of equipment*, a much more 'military' aim."



We definitely have some inside involvement, however those people are just a few moles who can't act independently. It's a worrying sign but more importantly, it definitely looks like these guys were supported by CIA or RAW considering their equipment, training, what they were attacking, etc. As mentioned before, this is leading up to an attempt to de-nuclearize Pakistan. Very soon this plan will be put into action.

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## I M Sikander

muse said:


> *Navy Chief to conduct investigations into PNS Mehran attack: Gilani*
> By Express / PPI
> Published: May 24, 2011
> 
> KARACHI: Prime Minister Yousaf Raza *Gilani has charged Naval chief of staff Admiral Nauman Bashir to conduct the initial investigation of the terrorist attack on PNS Mehran in Karachi on May 22-23.*
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani has directed to revisit, improve and upgrade security at all defense installations.




So the one who is supposed to be sacked right after the PNS attack is going to head the investigation himself. What a joke,

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## Geronimo2011

SMC said:


> BBC News - &#039;New kind of militant&#039; behind Pakistan Karachi attack
> 
> 
> 
> We definitely have some inside involvement, however those people are just a few moles who can't act independently. It's a worrying sign but more importantly, it definitely looks like these guys were supported by CIA or RAW considering their equipment, training, what they were attacking, etc. As mentioned before, this is leading up to an attempt to de-nuclearize Pakistan. Very soon this plan will be put into action.


 
For all you know they were actually disgrutled/bought Pakistan Army or even special forces men. And hence the training and capability. THat would also explain how the initial tally of 22 became 6 later on. May be the 16 SSG (or similar special forces) men (or their bodies) were whisked away from the scene to avoid public embarrassment..

We also have a precedent of the same. If I remember right, the dreaded terrorist Ilyass Kasmiri is also an ex SSG man.. May be he has been building up a team within SSG for such activities..


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## President Camacho

> One witness said that even though the militants had clear sight of them, "they ignored us... Instead, they just aimed RPGs at the two Orions [planes] parked on the tarmac." They were clearly under instructions to destroy military hardware. They also changed tactics easily and broke away in groups, which clearly had different aims.
> 
> But one of the attackers in particular caught the attention of those who were watching and bearing the brunt of the attack. "A small young man with a light beard who later dropped his M16 for two Uzi submachine guns. He was particularly deadly - *he killed one soldier with a single shot at over 600 yards.*"



Sounds like a record.

It is very difficult to aim wearing night vision goggles. And if not that, then it was all happening deep into the night. 

Such talent is not easy to be found. One can either find those with motivation, or those with skills. Both the qualities in the same person is never an easy find. I am not alleging or naming any entity here, but just saying... both these qualities, motivation as well as skills, can be found more easily in Israelis than any other ethnicity.

Before retorting to my comment please understand that it may be an imitation of the Israelis, and that the facts and figures of this operation in no way point particularly at Israel.

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## MastanKhan

S-2 said:


> *"Dedicated to Defense.pk member, a gentle soul, a worthy conscience, Rabzon:"*
> 
> Some would call him a liberal fascist. An unconscionable slur. Even in the face of unwarranted personal attacks, though, he remained above the fray.
> 
> He has a beautiful soul and is a great friend to Pakistan.


 
S2,

Welcome to the board----been a longtime.

We are in the process of watching the begining of the end game.

My assessment of Kiyani was not favourable from day one----I deemed him to be a very poor leader of men right from the begining. Quiet men---men who don't talk much are either hiding their incompetence by not speaking---or hiding their deceit by not talking much. When you compare him to generals like Schawrzkopf, Tommy Franks, Mcrystal, Collin Powell, Gen Musharraf---you can feel and see the difference right away----all these were leaders of men who could talk and express themselves in front of a public forum very convincingly---all these were also men of action. You saw something in them that was predictable---like regular people.

With Kiyani there is too much unpredictability in the air----.

Okay---now---looking at the reaction---or I would say, non reaction---a timely non reaction by pak millitary and pak politicians---I believe that pakistani public can start wrapping up whatever is left of the country----BEND OVER AND KISS THEIR HINNIES GOODBYE---GOOD BYE TO PAKISTAN AS IT EXISTED. Today the country's leadership and the public is as lost as the king and the muslim army of Baghdad during the mongol invasion and siege of the nations capitol---baghdad. 

The mongol armies were advancing throughtout the kindgom of baghdad ----and the muslims were arguing the grammatical intricacies of Qura'an---whether it is grammatically male or was it a female----if they were not not arguing about that then they were arguing about the direction of ka'aba----if it was 2* to the right or 2* to the left.

My men----you all have read those historical facts about your muslim heritage---the geart defeats that your ancestors had and what they were doing during those defeats----isn't it so interesting and fascination to see yourself live through those times in reality----isn't it truly amazing that now you are doing the same thing that your fore fathers did 700 years---800 years---900 years or a 1000 years ago. So, tell me now---what do you feel when you are living and passing through this time warp---I would like to know the truth from some of you---.


Doesn't this amaze you that you and I are going to be a part of the history from 500 years from now---for doing nothing against this terror---and our coming children---if there are any alive would be reading the same stuff about us---the we made the same mistakes that others made centuries ago----would that leave us any room for shame and dis-honor.

Well---congratulations to you all----you are going to be an integral part of the history---so pucker up and ----our coming generations will condemn us and use selective words against our integrity---they will not forgive us for bringing shame to them---as we didnot forgive our fore fathers for bringing humiliation to us!


But if you want some salvation-----then here is a suggestion-----.



Pakistan chose to be at these cross roads that it is on today out of sheer ignorance, arrogance, lack of knowledge in understanding the mindset of the terrorists and the fundamentalists---mostly those who were nationless, or kicked out their countries.

With as much enthusiaism as pakistan wants to stick its head in the sand, the taliban want to pull it out of the muck with an equal amount of zeal, excitement and candor. Whereas the pakistanis want to hide their faces from facing the truth that is looking them right in the eyes, the taliban keep bringing the mirror right in front of them---.

The pakistanis are fooling themselves into believing that, no, it is not the taliban---it is not the muslims who are doing this----the taliban keep on harping that yes it is them who are doing these acts of terror---yes they are the so called muslims who are doing it to the pakistanis---their brethren in belief and faith.

It has been long overdue, but today's actions have brought daylight to the issue in a newer and different manner. The taliban have gone on an all out assault on the integrity of pakistan and its very existence.

To counter that--- pakistan needs to do something equally radical. It is an absolute neccessity and it is imperative that pakistan install a homeland seurity department and and install an anti terror CZAR to oversee this department.

The anti terror czar would have the same authority as indian General Brar had during the blue star operation. There would also be a sort of emergency enforced in the country----there would be a seperate wing incharge of dealing with security and anti terror activities. that same organization would also be in charge of the anti terrorist courts---which will prosecute and pass judgements at an expedited pace and the executions of the culprits will be carried out on a fast track basis.

The initial 30---90 days would be a massive cleanup operation wherein the anti terrorist forces will strike at any and every religious organization with any links to taliban, al qaeda or any other fanatic group. Their leadership will be taken out and neutralized in a similiar manner as it would have been taken out under the rule of any muslim KHALIFA.

The reason I am talking about the Khalifa / Khilafat is due to the fact that the pakistanis want Khialafat, but they don't have any clue as to what the Caliphs did to the insurgents or they have conveniently forgotten. The pakistanis praise that period in that islamic history as a great period of law and order.


Our history tells us that most of our Caliphs were ruthless against any insurrection, insurgency, religious fanaticism and religious hegemony.

The rules of engagement will be similiar to what the great khalifas of islam enforced aganist any insurrection and any terrorist anctivities against the state.

As a matter of fact, it would be in the benefit of the state to call up on a previuos example of isurrection and terrorist activity in the past history of the islamic states, find similiarities and act accordingly in an expedited and fastrack manner and show the people how it was crushed by the state, just to give legitimacy to its actions.

Islamic history, british history or the history of any nation breathing on the face of this earth----each and every free nation had its fair share of terrorists and insurgents who wanted to force their agendas on the state. They stretched the patience of the state thin in each and every state and nation---only the successful nations with built in character of strength, courage, vitality and perseverence to survive fought of these ruthless killers and murderers.

Pakistan had the choice and options open to it to nip it in the bud and kill the monster right at its infancy---you innocent fools---only fooling yourself into a make-belief----you nurtured it and it grew up into a monster and it is ready to consume you, devouver you and destroy you. It is high time that you take a stand to protect your integrity and honor and do something to stand up as a proud and free nation. Otherwise you will be slaughtered into a piecemeal---either in groups or one by one.

There is no escaping the jaws of the monster that we have created---only way possible is to show it the jaws of the state.

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## Paan Singh

i saw many pakistanis making fun of mumbai attacks that indian nsg took this number of hours to retake the control and how attackers came through sea via pakistan after having powerful navy.......
now i m convinced that those ppl got the answer that how security laps occurs..

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## fatman17

....in talking to a former Navy officer (who had to take early retirement for medical reasons), 4 militants have been captured alive (and that is the reason there is ambiguity in the FIR on the number of militants) - now it seems they have a problem of disclosure of this info - my guess is that they have 'captured' one of the ''handlers / insider', most probably a 'airman'.

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## iPhone

fatman17 said:


> ....in talking to a former Navy officer (who had to take early retirement for medical reasons), 4 militants have been captured alive (and that is the reason there is ambiguity in the FIR on the number of militants) - now it seems they have a problem of disclosure of this info - my guess is that they have 'captured' one of the ''handlers / insider', most probably a 'airman'.


Boom, there you go. I was kind of expecting that.

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## MastanKhan

fatman17 said:


> ....in talking to a former Navy officer (who had to take early retirement for medical reasons), 4 militants have been captured alive (and that is the reason there is ambiguity in the FIR on the number of militants) - now it seems they have a problem of disclosure of this info - my guess is that they have 'captured' one of the ''handlers / insider', most probably a 'airman'.


 
Hi,

For that reason alone, I want to have the prime minister announce a state of emergency rule in pakistan----emergency anti terriorist courts need to be setup as fast as possible to take charge of the situations.


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## iPhone

Mastankhan sir, nice words. In my view, and its just that, this ttp taliban s*** would have been taken care of in its entirety during these last few operations against them under gen. Kiyani. What's making this task nearly impossible is presence of US in the region. US presence gives legitimacy to taliban movement due to anti-US sentiments in Pak. Same people then see Pak army's action against taliban illegitimate, and also Pak army as US hired. So you can make the best anti-terror dept in Pakistan, it won't be much effective until and unless they see a legitimate reason. 

If US leave tomorrow, taliban would loose their reason to fight along with theirlegitimacy among people, Pak forces can and will finish them off in matters of months.

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## Dharmachakra

Prism said:


> i saw many pakistanis making fun of mumbai attacks that indian nsg took this number of hours to retake the control and how attackers came through sea via pakistan after having powerful navy.......
> now i m convinced that those ppl got the answer that how security laps occurs..


 
I asked the same question many pages back. Apparently got no answer. Which itself is an answer.

It like making fun of US for 9/11 attacks.They are the most advanced military power,yet they have to become the victim on their own soil.


Again,reiterating:Never make fun of anyone. Oneday you will endup in the same mess or even much worse. Especially to pakistanis.,Because they are the ones who made much fun of 26/11 when 170 + civilians have been randomly taken down by some brainwashed morons.


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## MastanKhan

iphone,

Well----what is more terrible---the emergency law or the taliban law----. I would take the emergency law anytime of the day. Under that law----anybody talking against the state----instigating against the state---trying to cause unrest, would be deemed the enemy of the state.

Which means that people like Imran Khan and his cohorts could be subject to capital punishment----all these hosts on the tv channels, and their interviewees, destroying the integrioty of the state and glorifying the taliban---they would be charged with anti state activity---charged in anti terrorist courst on war footings and executed on fast track basis.

But the problem is Gilani---does he have the ballz to be the man---or Zardari---does he have the cojones to take charge----.

Iphone---us's presence has nothing to do with what we neeed to do for our sakes----. We could have done it 9 1/2 years ago or the slopes of hindu kush---if we had any vision of what was to come.


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## Nalwa

MastanKhan said:


> Sir,
> 
> This can only happen if india takes the HIGH ROAD----and not let mumbai type of attacks stop the progress of peace.
> 
> Britain did it----they had the IRA launching mortars at 10 downing street and the british were sitting in the peace talks with the irsh----you know why----they had a 1000 years of history behind them to make them understand that by reacting----the terrorists win.
> 
> India has not reached that stage of understanding yet---the day it does----it will find ways to make peace with pakistan regardless of what the hurdles are.
> 
> India is not ready and mature enough to let it happen-----. It is feeling too strong----and too important to take that final step.


 
MK, Indian leadership is either too vary of domestic pressure from hardliners or has been burnt so many times in its attempt at peace overtures that it doesnt want to take any more risk. The strategy is to rather wait and watch Pakistan burn itself in its self inflicted fire than go over and help. This approach also runs the risk of India catching some of the cross-border flames.


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## Roybot

iPhone said:


> If US leave tomorrow, taliban would loose their reason to fight along with theirlegitimacy among people, Pak forces can and will finish them off in matters of months.



Apologies for butting in, but that might be the solution for Pakistan's problem, but its not the solution to the worlds problem. If US leaves , Taliban will move back into Afghanistan and its back to square 1.

Pakistan needs to buckle down and get rid of this ideology of "jihad" and "strategic assets". Thats the only permanent solution, anything else will just be a temp fix.

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## toxic_pus

Prism said:


> i saw many pakistanis making fun of mumbai attacks that indian nsg took this number of hours to retake the control and how attackers came through sea via pakistan after having powerful navy.......
> now i m convinced that those ppl got the answer that how security laps occurs..


There is a lesson for us all - never make fun of someone's misfortune. That Karma has a way of sneaking up from behind and bite you in your azz.


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## Dharmachakra

roy_gourav said:


> Apologies for butting in, but that might be the solution for Pakistan's problem, but its not the solution to the worlds problem. If US leaves , Taliban will move back into Afghanistan and its back to square 1.
> 
> Pakistan needs to buckle down and get rid of this ideology of "jihad" and "strategic assets". Thats the only permanent solution, anything else will just be a temp fix.


 
Untill those top honchos using this Jihad as a weapon against India change thier mind, nothing is gonna happen. And i will bet 200 grand on that.
When we are ready to get two steps down, others should also be considerate. There is no point of rattling in closed chambers and public forums. 
Actions should speak.

Put Kashmir Aside, I bet there is not problem for the improvement of Indo-Pak ties. If these two countries progress together, then there is no point of unvoncentional warfare aka terrorism( Read LET ).

The chairs at the dictating table has certainly changed the positions. Long ago ISI used to be a commander of all these organisations(Psuedo).Not all these terrorists are dictating their own terms. Sadly a common man is suffering.

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## F86 Saber

Sir Mastan Khan for once i totally agree with you........but......how many out of 180 million Pakistanis can interpret the message you have given in sophisticated English. And the ones who can, how many out of them agree with u? As an example you can take a poll on this forum where i believe 100% represent the educated class of Pakistan about whether they agree with the Lal Masjid operation and you will get at least 30 to 40% who will say the army and Musharaf were at fault. Now if 30 to 40% of the educated who are less than 10% of total population of Pakistan do not stand behind the army for a very small scale action against extremism imagine what will the result of such an action taken on a large scale? How many from within the army will refuse to take part in it? Not to mention that the rulers of Punjab are open sympathizers of extremists. Like i said in another thread, we are brainwashed beyond redemption and will only survive this through a Ataturk type action


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## noksss

muse said:


> Perhaps because there were more terrorists than the authorities now say there were -- This operation was long in the planning, the operators (terrorists) apparently better trained than what the Pakistanis claim are their best, the SSG, SSGN (and this should be sobering tot the ordinary Pakistanis)
> 
> Look, what is different today from the first hours of this attack?? what is different in what we thought this event is about??
> 
> Allow me to say, that for most people, absolutely nothing is different, they know this attack was long planned, well executed and achieved it objective of making the world reconsider the degree to which the Pakistani armed forces can be trusted to safe guard nuclear materials
> 
> Yet for whom has the story changed??
> 
> Certainly the authorities - they have only partially figured out how to use the "facts" -- the one thing they have figured out is that there were just 6 terrorists, 2 of whom escaped - so there was never any threat to any "strategic assets or components thereof"
> 
> Now everything (facts) that does not fit this, will have to be "cleansed".



Fine buddy i am just intrested in knowing one simple question . it took 16 hours to kill small number of terrorists 
incase of mumbai also it took 60 hours for killing 10 terrorists so im just wondering will these be the same time the Commandos in other country take


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## waraich66

No one resigned or suspended for this incident , what is going on ---

Why Kiyani is silent ?

Only speak in favor of US drones attacks and US Military aid.

Is he COAS of PA ?

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## Paan Singh

home minister shud quit...btw who is home minister ??


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## MastanKhan

F86 Saber said:


> Sir Mastan Khan for once i totally agree with you........but......how many out of 180 million Pakistanis can interpret the message you have given in sophisticated English. And the ones who can, how many out of them agree with u? As an example you can take a poll on this forum where i believe 100% represent the educated class of Pakistan about whether they agree with the Lal Masjid operation and you will get at least 30 to 40% who will say the army and Musharaf were at fault. Now if 30 to 40% of the educated who are less than 10% of total population of Pakistan do not stand behind the army for a very small scale action against extremism imagine what will the result of such an action taken on a large scale? How many from within the army will refuse to take part in it? Not to mention that the rulers of Punjab are open sympathizers of extremists. Like i said in another thread, we are brainwashed beyond redemption and will only survive this through a Ataturk type action


 

Hi,

Well sir----that is where marketing and salemanship comes in---like in Lal Masjid case----it was theeasiest of the things by the govt to do---only if they knew----. First of all---right from day one of operation when millitary was stationed around the compound----they should have put a clamp on the news----a clamp on the cell phone and land line phones.

The state does not REASON with the public---the public has to reason with the state---the integrity of the state supercedes the integrity of the person who wants to stand in the way of the state----. Public negotiations hurt the cause of the state----when every tom dick and harry started to get involved with the maulvi in the lal masjid---the cause and the position of the state became a lost cause---and the maulvi's position got strength day by day.

The publics reaction to the the lal masjid was also due to the fact that Musharraf was very weak in providing justice to the victims of all kinds of crimes----he was actually extremely callous in that regards----.

That alone led to his downfall---like it led to the down falls of hundreds of civilizations before him----it is the law of nature--the promise of GOD----you don't provide justice to HIS weak and poor---you just kiss your rule/authority goodbye----and be forever condemned to live in indignity in this life and in the annals of history---.

If Musharraf would have proceeded with some executions of criminals before the millitary action or after the millitary action----like the rapists of Mukhtar Mai or other gang rapsists and karo kari killers----he would have changed the mindset of the public---plus bringing up the examples of the great muslim Caliphs to what they did to insurrection would have played well as well----.

But the real tragedy for pakistan was and is----that when it needed the SSG Musharraf to be the man he claimed to be---pakistan found out that he was a chicken at heart---he didnot have the courage to provide justice to the weak and the underlings------.

It is a tragedy to have such a leader of men and pakistan---and add a double tragedcy to that---prime minster Gilani has no ballz either to be the leader as well---.

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## SQ8

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> ...---like the rapists of Mukhtar Mai or other gang rapsists and karo kari killers----he would have changed the mindset of the public---plus bringing up the examples of the great muslim Caliphs to what they did to insurrection would have played well as well----.
> 
> But the real tragedy for pakistan was and is----that when it needed the SSG Musharraf to be the man he claimed to be---pakistan found out that he was a chicken at heart---he didnot have the courage to provide justice to the weak and the underlings------.
> -.



Couldn't have said it better.


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## muse

Friends

NYT is reporting that Chinese engineers confirm that they were being held hostage -- and it's possible, not saying that's probably what happened, just saying that it's possible, that this complication, if the news is true, could have been a consideration and that's why these people were able to hold off the forces for as long as they did -- 

Here's what I really think:

1. That there were 2 to 3 times the number of attackers the govt. says there were
2. That they had inside help on multiple levels - it will be "leaked" after the investigation that some "low level" types or civilian employees had provided information
3. That this was very complex operation - and I can't believe there were not multiple dry runs that went unnoticed?
4. There were terrorists within the residential area adjacent to the base and that the rescued engineers vehicle was fired upon form this area.


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## Abu Basit

MastanKhan said:


> To counter that--- pakistan needs to do something equally radical. It is an absolute neccessity and it is imperative that pakistan install a homeland seurity department and and install an anti terror CZAR to oversee this department.
> 
> The anti terror czar would have the same authority as indian General Brar had during the blue star operation. There would also be a sort of emergency enforced in the country----there would be a seperate wing incharge of dealing with security and anti terror activities. that same organization would also be in charge of the anti terrorist courts---which will prosecute and pass judgements at an expedited pace and the executions of the culprits will be carried out on a fast track basis.
> 
> The initial 30---90 days would be a massive cleanup operation wherein the anti terrorist forces will strike at any and every religious organization with any links to taliban, al qaeda or any other fanatic group. Their leadership will be taken out and neutralized in a similiar manner as it would have been taken out under the rule of any muslim KHALIFA.
> 
> The reason I am talking about the Khalifa / Khilafat is due to the fact that the pakistanis want Khialafat, but they don't have any clue as to what the Caliphs did to the insurgents or they have conveniently forgotten. The pakistanis praise that period in that islamic history as a great period of law and order.
> 
> 
> Our history tells us that most of our Caliphs were ruthless against any insurrection, insurgency, religious fanaticism and religious hegemony.
> 
> The rules of engagement will be similiar to what the great khalifas of islam enforced aganist any insurrection and any terrorist anctivities against the state.



and where does the American terrorists fit in your Khilafat model- what will the Caliph do to terrorists like Raymond Davis;

a) behead the useless American terrorist
b) have a cup of tea with the terrorist

I would also like to know, how your proposed model of Khilafat will deal with liberal fascists, american boot lickers and most importantly, will your Khilafat model enforce Islamic laws in the state.

Now lets see if you are really sincere or just using the name of Khilafat to propagate Americanized agenda.

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## muse

Islamist terrorists seems to have much support on this forum - I wonder why this is? Is it because they have seen that their ideas are tolerated by certain members of the admin? -- Well, what would you call it when our esteemed member *Rabzon* has been treated in the way he was - After all if the the shabby and indecent and unfair treatment of *Rabzon* was authorized, or not authorized, perhaps the owners or administration will come clean with their own membership - It seems much like the Republic, this forum too is unwilling to respect it's forum members and what the admin itself say are their values.

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## fatman17

PNS Mehran Base Commander has been 'suspended' pending inquiry!? - well its a start in the right direction - next shd be Commander Karachi, then the CNS himself.

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## Abu Basit

muse said:


> Islamist terrorists seems to have much support on this forum - I wonder why this is? Is it because they have seen that their ideas are tolerated by certain members of the admin? -- Well, what would you call it when our esteemed member *Rabzon* has been treated in the way he was - After all if the the shabby and indecent and unfair treatment of *Rabzon* was authorized, or not authorized, perhaps the owners or administration will come clean with their own membership - It seems much like the Republic, this forum too is unwilling to respect it's forum members and what the admin itself say are their values.



looks like the liberal fascists are out of gas-plz stop complaining like a child and counter the arguments with arguments.

kill all in fata, ban on religious parties, shoot the bearded ones etc., etc., these are the words we keep hearing here and goes on to show who is the extremist.

for liberal fascists- anyone speaking against American terrorism or drone attacks is an extremist. Plz wake up and hear what the streets of Pakistan is saying.......

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## SQ8

muse said:


> Islamist terrorists seems to have much support on this forum - I wonder why this is? Is it because they have seen that their ideas are tolerated by certain members of the admin? -- Well, what would you call it when our esteemed member *Rabzon* has been treated in the way he was - After all if the the shabby and indecent and unfair treatment of *Rabzon* was authorized, or not authorized, perhaps the owners or administration will come clean with their own membership - It seems much like the Republic, this forum too is unwilling to respect it's forum members and what the admin itself say are their values.


 
The idea is to tolerate the terrorists, the odd antagonistic or cynical Indian, The Questioning American and the uber secularist.
Ill admit it hasnt worked out well lately ...
especially with the badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists here.. whom I consider more deadly than the uber secularists, the "anti-Pakistan" elements-that-shall-not-be-named and others.
Those characters I know and can make a distinction with, they stand separate.. these guys are being brainwashed to become the "aasteen ka saanp" for this country.. and the religion.

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## muse

Come on they have nothing to do with Pakistan - to them it's an "unclean" creation -- The Paradox of tolerance -- Are we really going to tolerate ourselves out of existence??


The idea is to tolerate the terrorists?? Really? This is most telling -- whose idea is it?

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## iPhone

MastanKhan said:


> iphone,
> 
> Well----what is more terrible---the emergency law or the taliban law----. I would take the emergency law anytime of the day. Under that law----anybody talking against the state----instigating against the state---trying to cause unrest, would be deemed the enemy of the state.
> 
> Which means that people like Imran Khan and his cohorts could be subject to capital punishment----all these hosts on the tv channels, and their interviewees, destroying the integrioty of the state and glorifying the taliban---they would be charged with anti state activity---charged in anti terrorist courst on war footings and executed on fast track basis.
> 
> But the problem is Gilani---does he have the ballz to be the man---or Zardari---does he have the cojones to take charge----.
> 
> Iphone---us's presence has nothing to do with what we neeed to do for our sakes----. We could have done it 9 1/2 years ago or the slopes of hindu kush---if we had any vision of what was to come.



Sir, what would enforcing of emergency do if nothing but to further push the country into chaos. We already saw a glimpse of it during musharrafs last year.

I would reiterate my point made above that people see the govt in its entirety and armed forces to some extent as US hired. Now we take their civil rights away and those feelings are cemented. Govt all of a sudden would become illegitimate in peoples eyes and they'd start a rebellion.

You agree that in this day and age of social networking its virtually impossible to cut off people from one another. Having watched the Arab uprising unfold before their eyes the entire civil society would be out in full force to overthrow the "opressive" govt. Army would be called to quell the rebellion.

At that point forget about taking on taliban, the govt would be busy trying to save its own skin and the people and the army duking out on the streets, that is if they choose to obey their orders, otherwise another marshal law in the making.

So much for going to drastic measures to fix things. Sir, with all due respect to your age and wisdom and life experience, I just do not see how an emergency rule can help Pakistan in this situation. Or maybe I'm just not seeing what you are seeing. Maybe our generation just lacks the more hands on and more blunt approach to solving problem that your generation possess.

But I would say this, stay the course that has been adapted in the past three years. Pakistan is at a tipping point and anymore drastic moves and this bucket would spill. Let this govt complete its 1 1/2 years left. Keep nibing and pushing and shoving at the militants. There will be lots of damages along the way and lots of nasty surprises but stay the course. There isn't much, in my view, we can do about completely eradicating terrorists, for as long as US forces are in the region militants have legitimacy to fight. In time even if US decides to stay for good, talibs won't be as strong as they are now. Whatever the sources that are supporting them will begin to withdraw their hand. Taliban can be and will be finished but it will take quiet some time with US forces staying in the region, more quickly if they leave now. Pakistan army has a huge score to settle with them.

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## President Camacho

Santro said:


> The idea is to tolerate the terrorists, the odd antagonistic or cynical Indian, The Questioning American and the uber secularist.
> Ill admit it hasnt worked out well lately ...
> especially with the badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists here.. whom I consider more deadly than the uber secularists, the "anti-Pakistan" elements-that-shall-not-be-named and others.
> Those characters I know and can make a distinction with, they stand separate.. these guys are being brainwashed to become the "aasteen ka saanp" for this country.. and the religion.


 
I thought it was all about freedom of expression.

But you know, the majority is not the extremist one. If you allow them (the pro-extremists) to be here, then it will more than harm, serve your cause. People get to see what they are talking, and then people not only criticize them, but also get more and more skillful at recognizing them. Well, you gotta admit, they (the pro-extremists) are pretty good at posing as protectors of Islam.

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## muse

Patanjali said:


> I thought it was all about freedom of expression.
> 
> But you know, the majority is not the extremist one. If you allow them (the pro-extremists) to be here, then it will more than harm, serve your cause. People get to see what they are talking, and then people not only criticize them, but also get more and more skillful at recognizing them. Well, you gotta admit, they (the pro-extremists) are pretty good at posing as protectors of Islam.


 

The only people who think these terrorist supporters are good at defending Islam are people who conflate Islam and Terrorism, in other words people who like these terrorist supporters know next to nothing about Islam.

Freedom of Expression -- is that an absolute freedom?? 

If it isn't and it obviously isn't, we are therefore left to choose, to define our parameters of responsibility -- The ranks of terrorist supporting Islamist, and are there any other kind, grow on the forum, because the forum, offer them a venue, a voice, a stage, from which to project the most harmful and vile notions, a defaming of an an entire religious faith and all thinking that they are being "tolerant" - but tolerant of whom? Why is it that the sensibilities of these islamists are what we should be concerned with instead of our sensibilities?

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## Emran

We can't afford direct confrontation with USA??? DO we??? Now we have to fight and end this WOT>>This is our own war now??? Do you guyx really want a war with USA??? Can we afford direct confrontation with USA????


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## Porus

MastanKhan said:


> The reason I am talking about the Khalifa / Khilafat is due to the fact that the Pakistanis want Khialafat, but they don't have any clue as to what the Caliphs did to the insurgents or they have conveniently forgotten. The Pakistanis praise that period in that islamic history as a great period of law and order.
> 
> 
> Our history tells us that most of our Caliphs were ruthless against any insurrection, insurgency, religious fanaticism and religious hegemony.


 
Ironically some dellusional Pakistanis yearn for Khilafat but never in our history we were ever ruled by any Khalifa (apart from Sindh). And why is there a tendency among Pakistanis to talk about the historical events took place in places like Iraq or Syria in a way as if we were directly involved in them. When the Mongol invaded Baghdad we Muslims were doing this and when we Muslims ruled over Spain for 800 years. 

We are unable to acheive anything worthy in any field but we have assumed that just being a Muslim it is our Allah's given right to own every achievement accomplished by other nations (Persians, Turks or Arabs) just because we are the follower of the same religion.


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## monitor

PNS Attack: Four Terrorists Mock Govt Might For 16 Hours 

Posted: 23 May 2011 11:53 PM PDT

KARACHI: A fighting force of over 1,500 personnel comprising naval and military commandos and Rangers regained control of naval air base, PNS Mehran, 16 hours after a band of four heavily-armed Taliban militants attacked the base, destroying two US-made surveillance planes and killing 10 military personnel.
Those killed included eight naval and two Rangers officials while 15 troops received serious injuries. The martyred included naval officer Lieutenant Yasser Abbas, three firemen, three SSG personnel, one sailor and two personnel of the Pakistan Rangers.
This was the most brazen assault on a military base since the GHQ was besieged in October 2009 and has caused more embarrassment for the armed forces three weeks after al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was found and killed near the military academy in Abbottabad in a unilateral action by US crack troops.
After a visit to the PNS Mehran air base on Sharea Faisal on Monday, Interior Minister Rehman Malik told a press conference at the Chief Minister&#8217;s House that around six heavily-armed terrorists attacked the air base at around 10:30pm on Sunday. How he reached the tally of six is not clear because only two bodies of terrorists were recovered with one said to have blown himself up and another accomplice who may have been buried under the debris of the destroyed structure.
The terrorists were between 22 and 25 years of age with fair complexion. They used ladders to climb into the air base under the cover of night, triggering a gunfight and a series of explosions.
The interior minister said two terrorists were killed when Navy commandos immediately reacted, one blew himself up and another&#8217;s body was believed to be under the debris. He said two other suspected terrorists were seen running away He said two naval surveillance planes, P3C Orion, were destroyed by the terrorists equipped with rocket-propelled grenades, LMGs and hand grenades.
Malik said two suicide jackets were found on the dead terrorists while only the head of the suicide bomber was recovered. The attackers sported small beards and wore foreign clothes, not the Pakistani Shalwar-Kameez, he said.
Malik said 17 foreigners, 11 Chinese and six Americans, were rescued by the naval commandos. The foreigners were there to train the naval personnel about Orion planes and other aircraft, he said.
The interior minister stated that the Taliban had already claimed responsibility for the attack, which was aimed at weakening the country as well as its defence and armed forces. Malik, flanked by Chief Minister Sindh Syed Qaim Ali Shah, clarified that no terrorist was arrested and all were killed. He claimed that a number of leads/evidences had been found, which would be investigated to ascertain the identity and motives of the attackers.
He said a joint investigation team had been formed to investigate the incident and it would be assessed if there was a security lapse. However, he said the navy commandos immediately responded, which prevented further destruction. Malik admitted that they had limited intelligence and limited forces to provide adequate security for every place.
In response to a question by a foreign journalist, he said Pakistan saw a 9/11 type of attack almost everyday. Pakistan had been fighting the war against the terrorists for 10 years for itself, but sometimes it fought the war for the world also, he said. Malik regretted that the country was not getting the kind of support it needed from its friends abroad, and as a result the prime minister had cut the development budget to divert the scarce resources to defence.
Without naming anyone, Malik lashed out at politicians and religious leaders who did not consider the Taliban and al-Qaeda enemies of Pakistan. He said these elements were giving the impression that they supported the Taliban and al-Qaeda despite the fact that al-Qaeda or Taliban had claimed all major attacks on the country.
He said that instead of playing politics, we should stand united to save Pakistan which the Taliban were are bent on destabilising. Malik recalled that when the government had launched an operation against the militants in Malakand, certain leaders had claimed that Taliban were &#8216;good people.&#8217; And sometimes, he said, these elements even raised their hands in the National Assembly to offer Fateha for militants.
Answering a question about the presence of marriage halls inside the base, Malik said it had been decided that public access to such places would be reduced in the future. He disclosed that the venue of Monday&#8217;s briefing from the PNS Mehran base was changed to the CM House because there were reports/information that suicide bombers might attack the place. He said terrorists committed guerilla action and could attack any place, even the CM House.
Replying to a question about whether Mulla Omar had been killed, the interior minister said the question should be asked from Nato. He said there were rumours of Mulla Omar&#8217;s death in a Nato attack but the Taliban had denied it.
Malik said that the president and prime minister remained in constant touch with him during the operation to retake the naval base. He said all terrorist activities were being planned in Waziristan and al-Qaeda and the TTP were destroying the assets of the country at the behest of forces that wanted to destabilise Pakistan.
Malik said that a joint investigation team, led by a high-ranking Pakistan Navy official, would probe the PNS Mehran attack. Officials from the Rangers, FIA, police and other law enforcement agencies would be members of the team.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Patriot said:


> These P3's were provided by US - Do you really think they would be afraid of them?Looking at our navy's size i doubt it could survive onslaught of any fleet of US Navy.You people should write novels.


 
They are not afraid of these P3s... they are worried about Pakistan as a whole, their strategy very clearly involves weakening Pakistan.. to defang an ally before they leave Afghanistan so to speak... I think the people in the Pak Military are fully aware of this policy... This was obvious when they pushed the Taliban into Pakistan in 2001/2002


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## T-Faz

Mav3rick said:


> Can you explain the term 'Islamists' in your post?


 
Those who use Islam for political purposes and to a lesser extent personal gains.

It negates the image of Islam and is counter productive.


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## monitor

little off topic this thread already viewed 97000+ times and 2657 reply in 178 pages and 423 deleted post !!!


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## JonAsad

Muhammad Yahya said:


> No one resigned or suspended for this incident , what is going on ---
> 
> Why Kiyani is silent ?
> 
> Only speak in favor of US drones attacks and US Military aid.
> 
> Is he COAS of PA ?


 
I think Base Commander is suspended-

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## Emran

can someone answer my quetsion..I felt ignored


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## ghamai

hmm from attacks in Pakistan, to interference of India, to history of Afghanistan, to personal attacks, to frustration, where the hell is this thread heading to ? if there's no evidence against the accused ones then for earth's sake just stop replyin' ur not forced to reply . I get tired of just reading all these repeatative replies by the same people every time, dont u guys get tired of typin' the same nonsense over 'n over again ?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> Islamic economic system to secular country mein bhi implement ho sakta hai.
> 
> As for Uncle Hameed Gul, don't listen to him, he is one of the fathers (baap) of all the problems we face today.


 
I can agree that his support of some dodgy people/organizations has been wrong... but he is human and I would nt ascribe malice to him... I ascribe malice to Musharaf though... 

If you want Islamic economics in Pakistan then for the love of God, you are NOT a secularist... You are a threat to all anti Islamic forces on earth... Its in the economics where the front line of the clash of ideologies lie T Faz... Trust me... You are no friend to the secularists if you even allow the idea that an Islamic model of economics could be started in Pakistan... 

I think I have a good idea now where you are coming from... You oppose bigotry and intolerance in the name of Islam... and I hope you understand that most of the Islamists on this forum think the same actually... We should not confine ourselves within narrow stereotypes... I give this advice to everyone actually... 

I do have a problem with people who associate Islam with the dark ages however... 

I also have a problem with people who think drone strikes should continue... because this is nothing but treason against Pakistan itself... All is not lost and we can still come out of this mess... but the status quo has to change... we need to sort out these problems on our own terms... Americans are more than happy to fire hell fire randomly and create further problems for us than solving them... 

We also urgently need to get rid of the commanding top brass of Pakistan... not only are the incompetent, they also seem to be on the payroll of the Americans... Let there be new people promoted and new policies devised... enough of the corrupted rotten malfunctioning present... on towards new hope and plans...


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## ghamai

'n can the Indian memebers plz stick their nose into their own matters only ?? e-freaks


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## JonAsad

btw what happened to *Rabzon*?-


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## Bangalorean

ghamai said:


> 'n can the Indian memebers plz stick their nose into their own matters only ?? e-freaks


 
You should have thought of that when Pakistani members began screaming about RAW and India almost as soon as the thread started.

If you don't want Indian members commenting here, advise your countrymen to ditch the rotten conspiracy theories and stop bringing India's name in.


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## Guest01

Abu Basit said:


> looks like the liberal fascists are out of gas-plz stop complaining like a child and counter the arguments with arguments.
> 
> kill all in fata, ban on religious parties, shoot the bearded ones etc., etc., these are the words we keep hearing here and goes on to show who is the extremist.
> 
> for liberal fascists- anyone speaking against American terrorism or drone attacks is an extremist. Plz wake up and hear what the streets of Pakistan is saying.......



Hmm... this is strange. The moment Muse goes on to talk the same language that you anyway have been propagating with greater zeal and fanatiscm, albiet to a differnt purpose, you start complaining that they are running out gas.

And I have not read any of the members advocating a kill all in FATA or whatever else that you seem to be claiming. That is not their narrative. What gets lost in a discussion between an accomodating individual and a demanding individual is the actual matter of the discussion. Because the demanding individual will continue to demand no matter what the accomodating individual yields and the objectives are in a continual phase of shifts. That is the case with the religiously fanatical Islamists on this forum. However, you have to understand that it will always be the meek that will inherit the earth.

Just look at Afghanistan. The taliban were the strong and the Islamic and Jehadi and martian and what not. They were the instrument of the strategic rule and success of the great pakistani army. They were the pride of Paksitan!!

But what you will like to call the relatively meek and ball-less or whatever in actuality now rule Afghanistan. Irrespective of how much the mullah and the military try, even in Pakistan, it will be the average liberal thinking society that will inherit it. In present form or another. But in everypart of what is Pakistan today, you will see the liberals prevailing. Because that is the only way to life. Accomodation and co-habitation. The rest are all supposedly glamourous aberrations.


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## AAtish

roy_gourav said:


> Apologies for butting in, but that might be the solution for Pakistan's problem, but its not the solution to the worlds problem. If US leaves , Taliban will move back into Afghanistan and its back to square 1.
> 
> Pakistan needs to buckle down and get rid of this ideology of "jihad" and "strategic assets". Thats the only permanent solution, anything else will just be a temp fix.


 
Apologies .. but are we in a condition to think about Worlds problems? Did world thought about our problems ever? Being a Pakistan I would say Pakistan should publically announce that all those who move out of Pakistan in any direction will be allowed to go, without any attack from Pakistan army.

Fence the borders on Afghanistan side and get the hell out of this War on Terror. World should own what they started and what they bread three decades ago, it was never Pakistans war when it was against Soviets and it is not Pakistans war now so why should we suffer? Period!!

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Guest01 said:


> Hmm... this is strange. The moment Muse goes on to talk the same language that you anyway have been propagating with greater zeal and fanatiscm, albiet to a differnt purpose, you start complaining that they are running out gas.
> 
> And I have not read any of the members advocating a kill all in FATA or whatever else that you seem to be claiming. That is not their narrative. What gets lost in a discussion between an accomodating individual and a demanding individual is the actual matter of the discussion. Because the demanding individual will continue to demand no matter what the accomodating individual yields and the objectives are in a continual phase of shifts. That is the case with the religiously fanatical Islamists on this forum. However, you have to understand that it will always be the meek that will inherit the earth.
> 
> Just look at Afghanistan. The taliban were the strong and the Islamic and Jehadi and martian and what not. They were the instrument of the strategic rule and success of the great pakistani army. They were the pride of Paksitan!!
> 
> But what you will like to call the relatively meek and ball-less or whatever in actuality now rule Afghanistan. Irrespective of how much the mullah and the military try, even in Pakistan, it will be the average liberal thinking society that will inherit it. In present form or another. But in everypart of what is Pakistan today, you will see the liberals prevailing. Because that is the only way to life. Accomodation and co-habitation. The rest are all supposedly glamourous aberrations.


 
You need to read more carefully then... Not only have the liberal fascists attacked Islam here by linking it to dark ages but they are also calling for more drone strikes... 

As I said... the extremes of these two ideas... terrorism in the name of Islam and fascism in the name of liberalism are actually opposite sides of the same coin...

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Porus said:


> The brutal Pakistan army has been killing Balochs since decades, actually their massacre had started right after the creation of Pakistan. Even today army sabotages every reconciliation effort that the civilian government starts in Balochistan. The demand of Balochs is justified, they should be allowed to run their own province and the natural resources buried in their mountains belong to them.
> 
> Bugti was killed but Altaf the terrorist whose hands are red with the blood of innocent Pashtuns and Sindhis is military establishment's biggest buddy.


 
I can agree with the part that Baluchs should administer their own land and the resources should be provided to the local areas (before cough cough ermmm for example PUNJAB... cough cough) BUT any talk of separating from the rest of Pakistan and I give you my personal declaration of war over it (if you know what I mean)...

I dont think that the Army has just been randomly killing Balochis either... but yes, there is need to put a full stop to hostilities on various fronts... BLA is not a new phenomenon... the only reason why they have gotten support recently is because people are not getting justice in Pakistan...


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## Guest01

ghamai said:


> 'n can the Indian memebers plz stick their nose into their own matters only ?? e-freaks


 
Err.... what happened at Mehran is very much to the concerns of the Indians. The whole inside support act at such a sensitive installation actually exposes the whole region to a risk. India certainly does not want some non-state insiders either helping the Islamists with a dirty weapon or even worse, launching one at India themselves. This deliberate or clearly incompetent loss of control of the Pakistani forces (any which way, it is equally damaging for the region) does not let it be just a pakistani matter anymore.

This is an all bets off scenario, so please be less touchy about our interest and kindly accomodate.


----------



## Guest01

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> You need to read more carefully then... Not only have the liberal fascists attacked Islam here by linking it to dark ages but they are also calling for more drone strikes...
> 
> As I said... the extremes of these two ideas... terrorism in the name of Islam and fascism in the name of liberalism are actually opposite sides of the same coin...


 
I do not agree with your assertion. The reference to the old ages is anyway perfunctory since that is the basic narrative of the Islamists. Where else did the whole idea of Sharia or the Salafism arise from? By drawing a reference to those very ages and then highlighting the foolishness of chasing windmills in the present day environment actually takes the gas out of the whole Islamist argument. It is a very fair reference to show that the Islamists have no agenda of success.

If they are calling for more drone strikes then what do you really find wrong with it. The drone strikes are clearly with Pakistan's consent (no matter how much Kiyanai lies for this or how much Pasha feigns a fret) and in the safety of Pakistan. Why should the safety of the nation be held hostage to that of the terrorists who like to talk only with gun and suicide attacks on civilians and still claiming that they will go and get 72 up there? You need to think about that. 

Regarding your other part of the post, there is nothing such a fascist liberal so relax, the mint is still sane.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

fatman17 said:


> more reasons why the militants had 'inside help / info'.
> 
> 1- if the govt. spokesperson is to be believed, how did the militants know of the 'blind spots' of the surveillance cameras (only someone who monitors such details would know!?)
> 2- 'urdu speaking' 2 militants were speaking clear urdu - this shows that the LeT or Punjabi militant group was involved in this attack!? - TTP has deep links with punjabi militant groups.
> 3- from the point of entry, the militants took a 'bee-line towards the P3c's, which were 1-1/2 km away. they knew exactly where to go.


 
Sir... that is nt very surprising actually... There is a term for it... Its called "the Network of Raymond Davisis in Pakistan"


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Guest01 said:


> I do not agree with your assertion. The reference to the old ages is anyway perfunctory since that is the basic narrative of the Islamists. Where else did the whole idea of Sharia or the Salafism arise from? By drawing a reference to those very ages and then highlighting the foolishness of chasing windmills in the present day environment actually takes the gas out of the whole Islamist argument. It is a very fair reference to show that the Islamists have no agenda of success.
> 
> If they are calling for more drone strikes then what do you really find wrong with it. The drone strikes are clearly with Pakistan's consent (no matter how much Kiyanai lies for this or how much Pasha feigns a fret) and in the safety of Pakistan. Why should the safety of the nation be held hostage to that of the terrorists who like to talk only with gun and suicide attacks on civilians and still claiming that they will go and get 72 up there? You need to think about that.
> 
> Regarding your other part of the post, there is nothing such a fascist liberal so relax, the mint is still sane.


 
Dear Guest01 (were you recently banned from here?)

Since you have nt read anything on Islam (obviously) I dont think I ll waste my time with you...

As for plans and agendas... i have personally quoted numerous books and blueprints for the future on the forum... Pakistan can be a superpower if people were to study our material carefully and implement it... Now that does nt go well with some people in New Delhi and Washington D.C does it?


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## Roybot

AAtish said:


> Apologies .. but are we in a condition to think about World&#8217;s problems? Did world thought about our problems ever? Being a Pakistan I would say Pakistan should publically announce that all those who move out of Pakistan in any direction will be allowed to go, without any attack from Pakistan army.



Yes Pakistan is. All America has done is flushed out all the terrorists from Afghanistan and they have crossed the border in Pakistan. Its upto Pakistan, as to what it wants to do with these terrorists. And if you are going to tell me that Pakistan, the country which has one of the largest armies in the world doesn't have enough resources to pulverize these rag tag militia men, then its hard to buy. Why do you think America has to resort to drone attacks?



> Fence the borders on Afghanistan side and get the hell out of this War on Terror. World should own what they started and what they bread three decades ago, it was never Pakistan&#8217;s war when it was against Soviets and it is not Pakistan&#8217;s war now&#8230; so why should we suffer? &#8230;Period!!



Thats actually a good idea, but would Pakistan take the responsibility next time a terrorist trained on its soils attacks some country? And America is partly to be blamed for the mess created in Afghanistan during the cold war, but Pakistan participated willingly. It wasn't forced to take part unlike this time. Pakistan itself was worried about the Soviet presence, and on top of that Pakistan gained a "bachelor pad" in the form of Afghanistan, where it did all its dirty works far away from home. Now the fruits of all those dirty deeds have walked into Pakistan, cause they don't have anywhere to go.


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## MilSpec

Nearly 90% of the posts on this page have nothing to do with the attack on PNS mehran.... 

I have read everything from war on pakistan / Indian agents to US Spies on the thread... 

How about coming up with what exactly happened there...? how to avoid ground breach by terrorists at any strategic installations?


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## AAtish

Santro said:


> The idea is to tolerate the terrorists, the odd antagonistic or cynical Indian, The Questioning American and the uber secularist.
> Ill admit it hasnt worked out well lately ...
> especially with the badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists here.. whom I consider more deadly than the uber secularists, the "anti-Pakistan" elements-that-shall-not-be-named and others.
> Those characters I know and can make a distinction with, they stand separate.. these guys are being brainwashed to become the "aasteen ka saanp" for this country.. and the religion.


 
Problem lies with equal opportunity, when I started on this forum, I came here for CWC and then got stuck with the forum as it provides wider platform to discuss. 

I have noticed since, that the forum has been deteriorating slowly; there are couple of actions that I can suggest.

- There is a need to check and prohibit clones from same IP. Internet Café can contact management of forum, and seek permission to be allowed to have multiple connections.

- If the connecting IP is from outside Pakistan, default flag of that country should automatically be selected for location flag and should not be allowed to change.

Other than this, I totally agree with your *badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists* and *badd-lagam hyper half baked uber secularists*.

Pakistan was never meant to be for any of these, and should be cleansed of them!!


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

MastanKhan said:


> S2,
> 
> Welcome to the board----been a longtime.
> 
> We are in the process of watching the begining of the end game.
> 
> My assessment of Kiyani was not favourable from day one----I deemed him to be a very poor leader of men right from the begining. Quiet men---men who don't talk much are either hiding their incompetence by not speaking---or hiding their deceit by not talking much. When you compare him to generals like Schawrzkopf, Tommy Franks, Mcrystal, Collin Powell, Gen Musharraf---you can feel and see the difference right away----all these were leaders of men who could talk and express themselves in front of a public forum very convincingly---all these were also men of action. You saw something in them that was predictable---like regular people.
> 
> With Kiyani there is too much deceit in the air----.
> 
> Okay---now---looking at the reaction---or I would say, non reaction---a timely non reaction by pak millitary and pak politicians---I believe that pakistani public can start wrapping up whatever is left of the country----. Today the country's leadership and the public is as lost as the king and the muslim army of Baghdad during the mongol invasion and siege of the nations capitol---baghdad.
> 
> The mongol armies were advancing throughtout the kindgom of baghdad ----and the muslims were arguing the grammatical intricacies of Qura'an---whether it is grammatiocvally male or is it a female----if they were not not arguing about that then they were arguing about the direction of ka'aba----if it was 2* to the right or 2* to the left.
> 
> My children----you all have read those historical facts about your muslim heritage---the geart defeats that your ancestors had and what they were doing during those defeats----isn't it so interesting and fascination to see yourself live through those times in reality----isn't it truly amazing that now you are doing the same thing that your fore fathers did 700 years---800 years---900 years or a 1000 years ago. So, tell me now---what do you feel when you are living and passing through this time warp---I would like to know the truth from some of you---.
> 
> 
> Doesn't this amaze you that you and I are gouing to be a part of the history from 500 years from now---and our fore children---if there are any alive would be treading the same stuff about us---repeating the same mistakes that others made centuries ago.
> 
> Well---congratulations to you all----you are going to be an integral part of the history---so pucker up and -----!
> 
> 
> But if you want some salvation-----then here is a suggestion-----
> 
> 
> 
> Pakistan chose to be at these cross roads that it is on today out of sheer ignorance, arrogance, lack of knowledge in understanding the mindset of the terrorists and the fundamentalists---mostly those who were nationless, or kicked out their countries.
> 
> With as much enthusiaism as pakistan wants to stick its head in the sand, the taliban want to pull it out of the muck with an equal amount of zeal, excitement and candor. Whereas the pakistanis want to hide their faces from facing the truth that is looking them right in the eyes, the taliban keep bringing the mirror right in front of them.
> 
> The pakistanis are fooling themselves into believing that, no, it is not the taliban---it is not the muslims who are doing this----the taliban keep on harping that yes it is them who are doing these acts of terror---yes they are the so called muslims who are doing it to the pakistanis---their brethren in belief and faith.
> 
> It has been long overdue, but today's actions have brought daylight to the issue in a newer and different manner. The taliban have gone on an all out assault on the integrity of pakistan and its very existence.
> 
> To counter that--- pakistan needs to do something equally radical. It is an absolute neccessity and it is imperative that pakistan install a homeland seurity department and and install an anti terror CZAR to oversee this department.
> 
> The anti terror czar would have the same authority as indian General Brar had during the blue star operation. There would also be a sort of emergency enforced in the country----there would be a seperate wing incharge of dealing with security and anti terror activities. that same organization would also be in charge of the anti terrorist courts---which will prosecute and pass judgements at an expedited pace and the executions of the culprits will be carried out on a fast track basis.
> 
> The initial 30---90 days would be a massive cleanup operation wherein the anti terrorist forces will strike at any and every religious organization with any links to taliban, al qaeda or any other fanatic group. Their leadership will be taken out and neutralized in a similiar manner as it would have been taken out under the rule of any muslim KHALIFA.
> 
> The reason I am talking about the Khalifa / Khilafat is due to the fact that the pakistanis want Khialafat, but they don't have any clue as to what the Caliphs did to the insurgents or they have conveniently forgotten. The pakistanis praise that period in that islamic history as a great period of law and order.
> 
> 
> Our history tells us that most of our Caliphs were ruthless against any insurrection, insurgency, religious fanaticism and religious hegemony.
> 
> The rules of engagement will be similiar to what the great khalifas of islam enforced aganist any insurrection and any terrorist anctivities against the state.
> 
> As a matter of fact, it would be in the benefit of the state to call up on a previuos example of isurrection and terrorist activity in the past history of the islamic states, find similiarities and act accordingly in an expedited and fastrack manner and show the people how it was crushed by the state, just to give legitimacy to its actions.
> 
> Islamic history, british history or the history of any nation breathing on the face of this earth----each and every free nation had its fair share of terrorists and insurgents who wanted to force their agendas on the state. They stretched the patience of the state thin in each and every state and nation---only the successful nations with built in character of strength, courage, vitality and perseverence to survive fought of these ruthless killers and murderers.
> 
> Pakistan had the choice and options open to it to nip it in the bud and kill the monster right at its infancy---you innocent fools---only fooling yourself into a make-belief----you nurtured it and it grew up into a monster and it is ready to consume you, devouver you and destroy you. It is high time that you take a stand to protect your integrity and honor and do something to stand up as a proud and free nation. Otherwise you will be slaughtered into a piecemeal---either in groups or one by one.
> 
> There is no escaping the jaws of the monster that we have created---only way possible is to show it the jaws of the state.


 
I can agree with most of what you are saying... however I should remind you that Imam Ali managed to convince 2000 Kharajis thru dialogue... We have never had any serious attempt towards dialogue (while guess what our enemies ARE engaging with them in dialogue)... and the reason why we cant talk to them to seek a way out is because we are guilty of war crimes too... There can be no talks as long as we allow drone strikes... once they are stopped, people who have been wronged can be convinced to come to table and discuss with us.... 

Don't count on a peace deal with Taliban - CNN.com

btw... I am getting some info that we have possibly lost some of our assets within the Afghan Taliban and they are now considering the Pakistani establishment as a legit target for attack... including both Army and Gov... 

this is what happens when you have no justice... ultimately the few friends we have, we will lose them all... and someone is worried about the Caliphate isolating Pakistan from the rest of the world... as if we are not isolated already... what a joke (this one is nt directed at you Mastan)


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## Guest01

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Dear Guest01 (were you recently banned from here?)
> 
> Since you have nt read anything on Islam (obviously) I dont think I ll waste my time with you...
> 
> As for plans and agendas... i have personally quoted numerous books and blueprints for the future on the forum... Pakistan can be a superpower if people were to study our material carefully and implement it... Now that does nt go well with some people in New Delhi and Washington D.C does it?


 
Don't you get the point? One does not need to read the history of Islam because this is not an theological discussion. The very fact that the Islamist narrative identifies a nation as a vestige of a religion is what is leading Pakistan to all this mess. Have you not even realized that? I wonder how else were you really diffferentiating between the Islamists and the Liberals all this while!! Good luck with your books and blueprints for super duper wooper hooper power. 

And re the banning part, why do you ask. Did you ask for it?

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

iPhone said:


> Mastankhan sir, nice words. In my view, and its just that, this ttp taliban s*** would have been taken care of in its entirety during these last few operations against them under gen. Kiyani. What's making this task nearly impossible is presence of US in the region. US presence gives legitimacy to taliban movement due to anti-US sentiments in Pak. Same people then see Pak army's action against taliban illegitimate, and also Pak army as US hired. So you can make the best anti-terror dept in Pakistan, it won't be much effective until and unless they see a legitimate reason.
> 
> If US leave tomorrow, taliban would loose their reason to fight along with theirlegitimacy among people, Pak forces can and will finish them off in matters of months.


 
Sensible man... thumbs up to you!!!


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## AAtish

roy_gourav said:


> Yes Pakistan is. All America has done is flushed out all the terrorists from Afghanistan and they have crossed the border in Pakistan. Its upto Pakistan, as to what it wants to do with these terrorists. And if you are going to tell me that Pakistan, the country which has one of the largest armies in the world doesn't have enough resources to pulverize these rag tag militia men, then its hard to buy. Why do you think America has to resort to drone attacks?



Thats what i am suggesting too, flush out all the terrorists from Pakistan, let them go where ever they want and then let the other governments deal with them. Our neighbours on all sides have very strong armies so they can take care of them easily. War on Terror is whole world's war, let some other countries bear "collateral" damage too, Pakistan can help by doing precision attacks to pulverize terrorists.



roy_gourav said:


> Thats actually a good idea, but would Pakistan take the responsibility next time a terrorist trained on its soils attacks some country? And America is partly to be blamed for the mess created in Afghanistan during the cold war, but Pakistan participated willingly. It wasn't forced to take part unlike this time. Pakistan itself was worried about the Soviet presence, and on top of that Pakistan gained a "bachelor pad" in the form of Afghanistan, where it did all its dirty works far away from home. Now the fruits of all those dirty deeds have walked into Pakistan, cause they don't have anywhere to go.


 
Terrorists were never trained on Pakistan's soil, they wouldn't want to come in a country where they have Army to deal with, in contrast to Pakistan, Afghanistan was the target for their training camps, everybody knows it, even your beloved LeT had training camps in Afghanistan and you know about them, don't you?

Pakistan didn't went in Soviet war willingly either, it was forced to join, like they have done it now.

Let me give you an information:

- Soviet war started in 1979, General Zia-ul-Huq became president in 1977, over throwing ZAB who was trying to create Islamic Bank.
- WoT started in 2001, General Prevaiz Musharraf became president in 1999, over throwing NS who did the Nuclear blasts.

2 year difference both times.. Coincidence? I highly doubt that.

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## niaz

Found an interesting article in the Daily News of today. One may or may not agree with the writer's views, it provides some food for thought.


Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran 
Mosharraf Zaidi
Wednesday, May 25, 2011 

A frank discussion about the inept, corrupt and callous political leadership in this country has its place. It just doesnt have any place in this country right now. The PNS Mehran attack, along with the attack in Charsadda, and the two-pronged living nightmare of Osama Bin Laden residing in Pakistan, and the US invasion to kill him are just the most recent series of attacks that demonstrate that the primary public policy challenge in Pakistan today is national security.

There is little doubt that civilian governance is diseased. Corruption within the PPP government, a vision-impaired and DMG subservient PML N government in Punjab, a mediocre-acy in KP and Balochistan, and a patronage free-for-all between the MQM and the PPP in Sindh are all likely true.

Yet the corruption of the civilian governments in this country is not costing Pakistan the kind of blood and treasure that is being consumed by the current war on the people of Pakistan. Nor is the incompetence and stupidity of elected governments responsible for how this country has come to occupy the most uncomfortable title of the worlds most dangerous country.

Corrupt, visionless, amoral and inept civilian politicians are certainly contributors to the insecurity of ordinary life in Pakistan, and the insecurity that Pakistan inspires around the world. But they are passengers on this train. They can only be assigned tertiary responsibility for the environment that has allowed for events like the PNS Mehran attack to occur. The primary (and secondary) responsibility for Pakistans utter failure to counter and defeat the threats to its national security lies with the national security infrastructure of Pakistan  specifically, the Pakistan Army, the Pakistan Air Force, the Pakistan Navy and all associated and subservient organisations, including the Directorate for Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).

This national security infrastructure or the Pakistan military has enjoyed overwhelming dominance in the three most important aspects of the nations affairs for the duration of Pakistans 63 year existence. First, it has enjoyed the uncontested ability to officially define right and wrong, good and bad, of what constitutes the national interest. Second, it has enjoyed the nearly uncontested right to determine Pakistans closest friends, and Pakistans staunchest enemies. Finally, and most importantly, it has enjoyed the largest share of Pakistans wealth  both financial flows and claims to land, with almost no accountability to anyone (save the recent rigour with which US authorities determine which of the armys claims it deems worthy of payment, and which it does not). Each of these three aspects represent the most dire crises in the project to create and sustain a Pakistan consistent with the vision of its founders, with the values of its citizens (Muslim and non Muslim) and with the stature of the worlds sixth most populous nation.

Lets look at the first aspect. To the great and abiding detriment of this countrys people, the military has used its power to determine the national interest largely to promote and sustain a regressive, incomprehensibly rigid and retrograde version of Islam across the social, political and economic spectrum. If you want to get a taste of what the militarys pursuit of such an Islam has produced, look no further than the Chicago trial of Tahawwur Rana. The key witness in that case is a drug-dealing, double agent named David Headley. The fact that a shady criminal like Headley may enjoy greater credibility than the ministry of information, the Pakistan foreign office and its embassies, and the ISPR should tell us all we need to know about the value of the militarys cynical use of Islam to promote and sustain Islamist groups to pursue Pakistans national security and foreign policy objectives.

The use of Islam of course, also flows from the second aspect, which is the militarys decision to respond to Indian hostility and contempt for Pakistan, with its own brand of antagonism and aggression. This failed approach, manifest in multiple military embarrassments, including the 1971 surrender and vivisection of the Pakistani homeland, and the enduringly feckless Kargil disaster of 1998, has brought Pakistan nothing but humiliation.

The militarys insistence on an India-centric national project has allowed for a massive gulf between Islamabad and both Kabul and Tehran, Pakistans two most important neighbours. The military has pursued a policy of leasing out its services and this countrys society to far-away countries, including China, Saudi Arabia, and most cynically the United States. Worst of all, it has done so with an abiding dishonesty  stirring up anti US sentiment at will. The Americans arent stupid. Washington DC doesnt trust Pakistan at either the strategic or the tactical level. This is what happens when inorganic strategic relations are pursued for short-term fiscal and tactical gain, rather than long-term vision. Meanwhile, all the advantages that Pakistan enjoyed against India  its smaller size and ability to be nimbler, its decidedly more monolithic society (more so than Indias certainly), and its unique geostrategic and geopolitical position  have been wasted.

The final aspect, the uncontested access to money and land, is possibly the most damaging. While the rest of the developing world, including Bangladesh, the supposedly dysfunctional Siamese twin that was surgically separated from us in 1971, educate their children, and cultivate their industries  Pakistan has been bankrupting itself to buy shiny toys for the handsome boys. Steaming heaps of these toys, like the P3C Orions that could not resist a few RPGs, are proof that national security does not get built on the back of military hardware. The nuclear programme seems not to have dulled, but in fact have whetted military appetite for hardware that is too sophisticated to maintain without foreign assistance.

While Pakistan burns, it also begs for hand outs in Moscow, Beijing, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi, and once again, most cynically, in Washington DC. Meanwhile, India competes with China for global influence, gives grants to Afghanistan and loans to Bangladesh (and blocks EU trade concessions to Pakistan at will). The economic vice that Pakistan finds itself in is both a product of ineffective national security policy, but also a source of national insecurity. The military has been the pilot that has guided us to this deserted fiscal island. No matter how many depraved Dominique Strauss-Kahns this country convinces to give it loans, there are no rescue missions on the way. Pakistan is going to have to swim back to safety and civilisation by itself.

How does that process begin? The Pakistani military has a poor track record in strategic thinking, relationship management and in long-term resource planning. The military not only needs to begin to alter the balance of power on major decision-making, it must also urgently begin to induct civilian expertise on issues where it clearly has no real comparative advantage.

Even more immediate however is the need for the military to divorce itself from all kinds of politics. There can be no apologia for the kinds of speeches made by leaders of groups like the LeT or JuD, much less the actions they advocate. Whether religious zealots do the bidding of the military or mainstream politicians, it is wrong. It skews discourse and introduces unpredictable schisms into state and society. We may not know enough about PNS Mehran to say it was an inside job, but we know more than enough about Pakistan. The damage being done to this country is, without question, an inside job. It can only be fixed from within. Of Pakistanis, by Pakistanis, and for Pakistanis.



The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. Mosharraf Zaidi


Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran

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## indushek

I feel really sorry for this unending violence in Pakistan and pay my respects to those fallen in line of duty for the country.


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## AAtish

niaz said:


> Found an interesting article in the Daily News of today. One may or may not agree with the writer's views, it provides some food for thought.
> 
> 
> Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran
> Mosharraf Zaidi
> Wednesday, May 25, 2011
> 
> A frank discussion about the inept, corrupt and callous political leadership in this country has its place. It just doesn&#8217;t have any place in this country right now. The PNS Mehran attack, along with the attack in Charsadda, and the two-pronged living nightmare of Osama Bin Laden residing in Pakistan, and the US invasion to kill him are just the most recent series of attacks that demonstrate that the primary public policy challenge in Pakistan today is national security.
> 
> There is little doubt that civilian governance is diseased. Corruption within the PPP government, a vision-impaired and DMG subservient PML N government in Punjab, a mediocre-acy in KP and Balochistan, and a patronage free-for-all between the MQM and the PPP in Sindh are all likely true.
> 
> Yet the corruption of the civilian governments in this country is not costing Pakistan the kind of blood and treasure that is being consumed by the current war on the people of Pakistan. Nor is the incompetence and stupidity of elected governments responsible for how this country has come to occupy the most uncomfortable title of the world&#8217;s most dangerous country.
> 
> Corrupt, visionless, amoral and inept civilian politicians are certainly contributors to the insecurity of ordinary life in Pakistan, and the insecurity that Pakistan inspires around the world. But they are passengers on this train. They can only be assigned tertiary responsibility for the environment that has allowed for events like the PNS Mehran attack to occur. The primary (and secondary) responsibility for Pakistan&#8217;s utter failure to counter and defeat the threats to its national security lies with the national security infrastructure of Pakistan &#8211; specifically, the Pakistan Army, the Pakistan Air Force, the Pakistan Navy and all associated and subservient organisations, including the Directorate for Inter Services Intelligence (ISI).
> 
> This national security infrastructure or the Pakistan military has enjoyed overwhelming dominance in the three most important aspects of the nation&#8217;s affairs for the duration of Pakistan&#8217;s 63 year existence. First, it has enjoyed the uncontested ability to officially define right and wrong, good and bad, of what constitutes the national interest. Second, it has enjoyed the nearly uncontested right to determine Pakistan&#8217;s closest friends, and Pakistan&#8217;s staunchest enemies. Finally, and most importantly, it has enjoyed the largest share of Pakistan&#8217;s wealth &#8211; both financial flows and claims to land, with almost no accountability to anyone (save the recent rigour with which US authorities determine which of the army&#8217;s claims it deems worthy of payment, and which it does not). Each of these three aspects represent the most dire crises in the project to create and sustain a Pakistan consistent with the vision of its founders, with the values of its citizens (Muslim and non Muslim) and with the stature of the world&#8217;s sixth most populous nation.
> 
> Let&#8217;s look at the first aspect. To the great and abiding detriment of this country&#8217;s people, the military has used its power to determine the &#8220;national interest&#8221; largely to promote and sustain a regressive, incomprehensibly rigid and retrograde version of Islam across the social, political and economic spectrum. If you want to get a taste of what the military&#8217;s pursuit of such an Islam has produced, look no further than the Chicago trial of Tahawwur Rana. The key witness in that case is a drug-dealing, double agent named David Headley. The fact that a shady criminal like Headley may enjoy greater credibility than the ministry of information, the Pakistan foreign office and its embassies, and the ISPR should tell us all we need to know about the value of the military&#8217;s cynical use of Islam to promote and sustain Islamist groups to pursue Pakistan&#8217;s national security and foreign policy objectives.
> 
> The use of Islam of course, also flows from the second aspect, which is the military&#8217;s decision to respond to Indian hostility and contempt for Pakistan, with its own brand of antagonism and aggression. This failed approach, manifest in multiple military embarrassments, including the 1971 surrender and vivisection of the Pakistani homeland, and the enduringly feckless Kargil disaster of 1998, has brought Pakistan nothing but humiliation.
> 
> The military&#8217;s insistence on an India-centric national project has allowed for a massive gulf between Islamabad and both Kabul and Tehran, Pakistan&#8217;s two most important neighbours. The military has pursued a policy of leasing out its services and this country&#8217;s society to far-away countries, including China, Saudi Arabia, and most cynically the United States. Worst of all, it has done so with an abiding dishonesty &#8211; stirring up anti US sentiment at will. The Americans aren&#8217;t stupid. Washington DC doesn&#8217;t trust Pakistan at either the strategic or the tactical level. This is what happens when inorganic &#8220;strategic&#8221; relations are pursued for short-term fiscal and tactical gain, rather than long-term vision. Meanwhile, all the advantages that Pakistan enjoyed against India &#8211; its smaller size and ability to be nimbler, its decidedly more monolithic society (more so than India&#8217;s certainly), and its unique geostrategic and geopolitical position &#8211; have been wasted.
> 
> The final aspect, the uncontested access to money and land, is possibly the most damaging. While the rest of the developing world, including Bangladesh, the supposedly dysfunctional Siamese twin that was &#8220;surgically&#8221; separated from us in 1971, educate their children, and cultivate their industries &#8211; Pakistan has been bankrupting itself to buy shiny toys for the handsome boys. Steaming heaps of these toys, like the P3C Orions that could not resist a few RPGs, are proof that national security does not get built on the back of military hardware. The nuclear programme seems not to have dulled, but in fact have whetted military appetite for hardware that is too sophisticated to maintain without foreign assistance.
> 
> While Pakistan burns, it also begs for hand outs in Moscow, Beijing, Riyadh, Abu Dhabi, and once again, most cynically, in Washington DC. Meanwhile, India competes with China for global influence, gives grants to Afghanistan and loans to Bangladesh (and blocks EU trade concessions to Pakistan at will). The economic vice that Pakistan finds itself in is both a product of ineffective national security policy, but also a source of national insecurity. The military has been the pilot that has guided us to this deserted fiscal island. No matter how many depraved Dominique Strauss-Kahns this country convinces to give it loans, there are no rescue missions on the way. Pakistan is going to have to swim back to safety and civilisation by itself.
> 
> How does that process begin? The Pakistani military has a poor track record in strategic thinking, relationship management and in long-term resource planning. The military not only needs to begin to alter the balance of power on major decision-making, it must also urgently begin to induct civilian expertise on issues where it clearly has no real comparative advantage.
> 
> Even more immediate however is the need for the military to divorce itself from all kinds of politics. There can be no apologia for the kinds of speeches made by leaders of groups like the LeT or JuD, much less the actions they advocate. Whether religious zealots do the bidding of the military or mainstream politicians, it is wrong. It skews discourse and introduces unpredictable schisms into state and society. We may not know enough about PNS Mehran to say it was an inside job, but we know more than enough about Pakistan. The damage being done to this country is, without question, an inside job. It can only be fixed from within. Of Pakistanis, by Pakistanis, and for Pakistanis.
> 
> 
> 
> The writer advises governments, donors and NGOs on public policy. Mosharraf Zaidi
> 
> 
> Fixing responsibility for PNS Mehran


 
Mostly a good representation of problems of Pakistan, but for those who can read in-between the lines, there are contradictions in the article itself.. e.g.



> The key witness in that case is a drug-dealing, double agent named David Headley. The fact that a shady criminal like Headley may enjoy greater credibility than the ministry of information, the Pakistan foreign office and its embassies, and the ISPR should tell us all we need to know about the value of the military&#8217;s cynical use of Islam to promote and sustain Islamist groups to pursue Pakistan&#8217;s national security and foreign policy objectives.



Proves that, the global community is willing to listen to a drug dealer and value it more than a sovereign country shows weakness on the Political side of rulers, a side where foreign ministry hadn't had a clue of what to do and doesn't know how to tackle. On the other hand, FO is without any FM in recent times when country is going through tough times and is suppose to have the "strongest" FM right now.

It is all good to pinpoint deficiencies in PA, PAF and PN along with ISI, IB and MI, but one needs to remember that "face" of a government is political government itself, they are suppose to be "leading" the country, if they cannot, then hand over the control to Military and then the public can ask them by themselves.

If the democratic government wishes to continue with democracy then they have to take stand and fight for the right of Pakistani citizen inside and outside. President is CIC, so any order given by him is going to be taken "as it is" by all forces, if the higher ups of forces deny it, he can order the juniors to over throw them, as the highest authority in command, everyone will listen to him. (in perfect conditions)

Otherwise, i am afraid to say, within few more months, you'll see a blood bath on the streets when civilians take matters in their own hands, Civil war or as they call it "revolution" it seems will be eminent.

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## AAtish

Porus said:


> Ironically some dellusional Pakistanis yearn for Khilafat but never in our history we were ever ruled by any Khalifa (apart from Sindh). And why is there a tendency among Pakistanis to talk about the historical events took place in places like Iraq or Syria in a way as if we were directly involved in them. When the Mongol invaded Baghdad we Muslims were doing this and when we Muslims ruled over Spain for 800 years.
> 
> We are unable to acheive anything worthy in any field but we have assumed that just being a Muslim it is our Allah's given right to own every achievement accomplished by other nations (Persians, Turks or Arabs) just because we are the follower of the same religion.


 
I guess you being a "Muslim" forgot there is no "nationality" in Islam. 

By Islam's definition, we are ONE nation, otherwise, Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was an Arab, so should we not accept Islam??

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## Stealth IFV

I think Pakistan must distinguish between terrorism and overt acts of war. This wasn't a civilian target by any means, so it can't be terrorists who did this...right? Someone help me out. 

Also, very curious that the TTP can just out and out claim responsibility for any attack, without much proof or cross examination by authorities. As far as God knows, Pakistan could be at war with Mozambique. You must identify your targets better.

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## T-Faz

AAtish said:


> I guess you being a "Muslim" forgot there is no "nationality" in Islam.
> 
> By Islam's definition, we are ONE nation, otherwise, Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was an Arab, so should we not accept Islam??


 
There is no Nationality in Islam, does that mean as a Muslim I can land in some Muslim country without any passport and dwell there as long as I like.

Recently Kuwait stopped visas, travel, tourism and trade with five Muslim nation including Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.

What does that mean?

Are they Muslim and we are not, or are we Muslim and they are not?

We all follow Islam so why do we need to get Visa's to travel to their countries and vice versa.

The times of the Prophet (SAW) were different, then all the Muslim were under one rule and one government.

Now Muslims can be found all over the world and Islam teaches us to be faithful to the country we live in.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Abu Basit said:


> and where does the American terrorists fit in your Khilafat model- what will the Caliph do to terrorists like Raymond Davis;
> 
> a) behead the useless American terrorist
> b) have a cup of tea with the terrorist
> 
> I would also like to know, how your proposed model of Khilafat will deal with liberal fascists, american boot lickers and most importantly, will your Khilafat model enforce Islamic laws in the state.
> 
> Now lets see if you are really sincere or just using the name of Khilafat to propagate Americanized agenda.


 
You have to give it to him... at least he is not associating the Caliphate with dark ages... LOL

Many thanks Mastan for finally supporting the Caliphate... I salute you sir... 

---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 PM ----------

and you Americans... stop blocking me from posting on this forum... I know what you are trying to do... back off...

Webmaster, Mods... please move this server out of America... many thanks


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## Stealth IFV

Even the Arabs have abandoned the Caliphate idea. In fact many millions of Muslims helped the West bring the Ottomans to their knees finally, to the betterment of Turkey and many Arabs. It took the West of the backs off the Turks, you can't present yourself as such prime targets for dismantlement. It's akin to the Vatican city going out on heroic conquests. It's not logical and will meet to much fierce resistance.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Santro said:


> The idea is to tolerate the terrorists, the odd antagonistic or cynical Indian, The Questioning American and the uber secularist.
> Ill admit it hasnt worked out well lately ...
> especially with the badd-lagam hyper half baked Islamic revolutionists here.. whom I consider more deadly than the uber secularists, the "anti-Pakistan" elements-that-shall-not-be-named and others.
> Those characters I know and can make a distinction with, they stand separate.. these guys are being brainwashed to become the "aasteen ka saanp" for this country.. and the religion.


 
The problem is all those people who keep their hyper inflated egos above the very sanctity of Islam, our dear Prophet Muhammad saw and this Pakistan the majority of whose people desire Islam...


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## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> The problem is all those people who keep their hyper inflated egos above the very sanctity of Islam, our dear Prophet Muhammad saw and this *Pakistan the majority of whose people desire Islam*...


 
If they want Islam then give them Islam, run in the elections and get the people to vote for you, if they want Islam they will vote for you.

If you want to bring it by force, do it, bring it via force, if the people want Islam, they will support you.

Just end the damn thing already as things are getting worse by the minute.

This way I can finally decide if this country for me or not.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Porus said:


> Ironically some dellusional Pakistanis yearn for Khilafat but never in our history we were ever ruled by any Khalifa (apart from Sindh). And why is there a tendency among Pakistanis to talk about the historical events took place in places like Iraq or Syria in a way as if we were directly involved in them. When the Mongol invaded Baghdad we Muslims were doing this and when we Muslims ruled over Spain for 800 years.
> 
> We are unable to acheive anything worthy in any field but we have assumed that just being a Muslim it is our Allah's given right to own every achievement accomplished by other nations (Persians, Turks or Arabs) just because we are the follower of the same religion.


 
I ll let this pass... thank your handle for that... Porus... lol


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## P. CHidambaram

SO any updates on Mehran attack? Which SP forces commando unit of pakistan army were the attackers from?


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## P. CHidambaram

Food for thought for all conspiRapists here: WHy is American Media so silent?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> If they want Islam then give them Islam, run in the elections and get the people to vote for you, if they want Islam they will vote for you.
> 
> If you want to bring it by force, do it, bring it via force, if the people want Islam, they will support you.
> 
> Just end the damn thing already as things are getting worse by the minute.
> 
> This way I can finally decide if this country for me or not.


 
T Faz my dear... Have nt you read my comments here before... We cannot take the route of violence because in our understanding the merciful Prophet saw did not take that route... Its not the method for bringing change... 

This change will come when the influentials in our military start listening to us and agree to support our agenda... As far as my limited information goes, we have a lot of support in our armed forces for this cause... There are a few hurdles remaining... We eagerly await the good news God willing...

and this country is not only for you but for everyone who can bring talent to this land and contribute to the good of the society... Its none of my business what exactly your beliefs are... You are a brother to me regardless of where you come from and what language you speak... even regardless of what religion you adhere to... however the lead has to be with Muslims as Islam is in the majority in our lands... simple

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## Guest01

And also keen to know if Gen. Kiyani has made another honor and respect speech somewhere explaining the Mehran situation? Please someone also help to highlight if there is any more videos that Pasha is threatening to release of Nisar or other politicians from his laptop? What is the Army's take on the Mehran meharbaani?


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## MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n

LieuTenanT  Syed Yasir abbas ShaheeD is the extreamly brave , gallant and courageous soldier who has selflessly sacrificed his soul for PakisTan and for the honour of our Pakistan navy , and then embrassed shahaadat by fighting boldly against those mulk-dushman dehshat gard ...  

maa shaaa ALLAH


This PakisTani brave boy just not only saved the sensitive defence assets of PakisTan , worth millions of dollars but he himself also did not let those terorrists getting succeed in destroying the other valuable assets present at our P.n. 's naval air-base ...  

we solute our brother Lieutenant Syed Yasir abbas shaheed and his brave family ...  

PakisTan solutes you ; PakisTan Loves you , shaheed brother ... 

Beyond any shadow of any doubt , LieuTenanT Syed Yasir abbas shaheed shall always be remembered as one of the True symbols of patriotism for PaksiTan ... 


inshaaa ALLAH


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## Rafael

P. CHidambaram said:


> SO any updates on Mehran attack? Which SP forces commando unit of pakistan army were the attackers from?


 
Stupid Chidambaram has got nothing else to do except for trolling.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> There is no Nationality in Islam, does that mean as a Muslim I can land in some Muslim country without any passport and dwell there as long as I like.
> 
> Recently Kuwait stopped visas, travel, tourism and trade with five Muslim nation including Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.
> 
> What does that mean?
> 
> Are they Muslim and we are not, or are we Muslim and they are not?
> 
> We all follow Islam so why do we need to get Visa's to travel to their countries and vice versa.
> 
> The times of the Prophet (SAW) were different, then all the Muslim were under one rule and one government.
> 
> Now Muslims can be found all over the world and Islam teaches us to be faithful to the country we live in.


 
Exactly!!!

I hate it when I have to get visas for visiting Muslim countries... Its pointless... I should be free to move from Morocco down to Indonesia... 

Just one of the benefits of the Caliphate... no visas required!!!

---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

Heres a brilliant quote from one of the best military minds of our history...

*"If you want to destablize and destroy a country, all you have to do is create enmity between its people and their army". *SALAHUDIN AYUBI


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## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> T Faz my dear... Have nt you read my comments here before... We cannot take the route of violence because in our understanding the merciful Prophet saw did not take that route... Its not the method for bringing change...
> 
> This change will come when the influentials in our military start listening to us and agree to support our agenda... As far as my limited information goes, we have a lot of support in our armed forces for this cause... There are a few hurdles remaining... We eagerly await the good news God willing...
> 
> and this country is not only for you but for everyone who can bring talent to this land and contribute to the good of the society... Its none of my business what exactly your beliefs are... You are a brother to me regardless of where you come from and what language you speak... even regardless of what religion you adhere to... however the lead has to be with Muslims as Islam is in the majority in our lands... simple


 
I wouldn't put too much work into influencing this military if I were you, their record in supporting and helping who they liked has been abysmal. Similarly, they change their ideology so often that the army turns against their very own creation. 

You will know that people come and go from here without leaving any proper legacy, its all divided and tarnished amongst the ranks.


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## P. CHidambaram

WIth due respect you people have mislead the thread to a point of no return.


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## Guest01

P. CHidambaram said:


> WIth due respect you people have mislead the thread to a point of no return.


 
That is generally what happens when there is some sort of expectation of accountability from the army in Pakistan. The discussions always get derailed till the next OBL or Mehran or till the next qwestion arises.


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## AAtish

T-Faz said:


> There is no Nationality in Islam, does that mean as a Muslim I can land in some Muslim country without any passport and dwell there as long as I like.
> 
> Recently Kuwait stopped visas, travel, tourism and trade with five Muslim nation including Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan.
> 
> What does that mean?
> 
> Are they Muslim and we are not, or are we Muslim and they are not?
> 
> We all follow Islam so why do we need to get Visa's to travel to their countries and vice versa.
> 
> The times of the Prophet (SAW) were different, then all the Muslim were under one rule and one government.
> 
> Now Muslims can be found all over the world and Islam teaches us to be faithful to the country we live in.


 
You obviously missed the point T-Faz..

I was responding to a post related to history of Muslims, not the recent times..

Can you tell me if there is "original" Islamic constitution implemented anywhere in the world? including many Pakistan's beloved Saudi Arabia? Nope!!

What i wrote was not referring to current bunch of so-called Muslim countries, but that does not, in any way, void the claim of Global Islamic Brotherhood..

To answer your question, yes, in a perfect Islamically ruled country, you don't need a visa to go, being a Muslim will be more than enough to get you entry, visa, or in broader sense, checking would be undertaken if you are a non-Muslim. Obviously, your reason to travel to a Muslim country will be analyzed and assessed.

Hope i cleared my point..


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## Stealth IFV

How many commando raids does it take a Pakistani to declare a state of emergency?

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## Porus

AAtish said:


> I guess you being a "Muslim" forgot there is no "nationality" in Islam.
> 
> By Islam's definition, we are ONE nation, otherwise, Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) was an Arab, so should we not accept Islam??



I respect your own religious views but the reality is quite opposite and bitter. No other book has damaged the minds of the gullible Pakistanis more than Muttala e Pakistan and no other writer has fooled them more than Naseem Hajjazi.


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> I wouldn't put too much work into influencing this military if I were you, their record in supporting and helping who they liked has been abysmal. Similarly, they change their ideology so often that the army turns against their very own creation.
> 
> You will know that people come and go from here without leaving any proper legacy, its all divided and tarnished amongst the ranks.


 
TFaz... remember that in times of the Prophet the eventual supporters of Islam, the Ansar of Madina... before they agreed to support Muslims... they were also very divided and were infighting amongst themselves a lot of time... had no legacy and were silly morons... but they made history by supporting the Prophet with their swords... Its funny actually when you say this... because I often laugh at the silly behavior of our Armed forces... I think, are these the people who will shake the very Throne of Allah swt?? (the prophet saw said this about one of the Ansari when he passed away... that his death shook the Throne of Allah... subhanAllah) but yeah... This is how I see my Army... Even though I m not happy with it I have defended it in as many ways as I could... even warned some enemies I came across that they should not underestimate the Pakistan Army... this fine horse only requires a fine jockey now... there is no stopping us inshaAllah... 

and IF Pak Army fails us... well lets not go there for now...


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## Guest01

Stealth IFV said:


> How many commando raids does it take a Pakistani to declare a state of emergency?


 
Umm..... I can only make a guess. 

How about n+1. 

with N being the number of times there are drone attacks or any other raids. But one thing you got to hand it to them. Irrespective of what is happening, their army has broken the back of militancy and also honor and respect are more important than prosperity in any of the N situations that are mentioned as the variable above.

If you do not think that my answer is plausible, then you could also ask the Chinese.


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## AAtish

Porus said:


> I respect your own religious views but the reality is quite opposite and bitter. No other book has damaged the minds of the gullible Pakistanis more than Muttala e Pakistan and no other writer has fooled them more than Naseem Hajjazi.


 
And your post proves you have read non of them.. you just heard names.. or if you have read them, you don't believe them.. either way, thankfully your kind is not even a drop in the sea of Pakistani population..

BTW, Mutalia-e-Pakistan or Naseem Hijazi's books are not religious books, just for correction..

now don't troll..


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## Stealth IFV

Guest01 said:


> Umm..... I can only make a guess.
> 
> How about n+1.
> 
> with N being the number of times there are drone attacks or any other raids. But one thing you got to hand it to them. Irrespective of what is happening, their army has broken the back of militancy and also honor and respect are more important than prosperity in any of the N situations that are mentioned as the variable above.
> 
> If you do not think that my answer is plausible, then you could also ask the Chinese.


 
That's a fair analysis I guess, but I don't think the back of militancy has been broken. If anything, the ant-hill has been disturbed.


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## Porus

AAtish said:


> And your post proves you have read non of them.. you just heard names.. or if you have read them, you don't believe them.. either way, thankfully your kind is not even a drop in the sea of Pakistani population..
> 
> *BTW, Mutalia-e-Pakistan or Naseem Hijazi's books are not religious books, just for correction..*
> 
> now don't troll..



You seriously need to improve your reading comprehension.


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## AAtish

Porus said:


> You seriously need to improve your reading comprehension.


 
You seriously need to clarify yourself on what the word "religious" means..


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## Porus

AAtish said:


> You seriously need to clarify yourself on what the word "religious" means..


 
Did I anywhere say that these are religious books?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

although we are quite off topic here... I came across another brilliant quote and would like to post it here considering we self blame ourselves sometime when we supported the Mujahideen in Afghanistan against the Soviets...

Heres what they said about them... Oh the Irony!!!!

To watch the courageous Afghan freedom fighters battle modern arsenals with simple hand-held weapons is an inspiration to those who love freedom."

&#8212; U.S. President Ronald Reagan, March 21, 1983

....

and I just made this one up... just to cheer you all up a little...

Some people have called me a terrorist many times... I dont believe in talk such as this... I m a nice person with happy feelings all of the time...


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## P. CHidambaram

Analysis From BR



> Have been reading a lot of theories on this attack.
> 
> What struck me as peculiar is that for a standoff which was supposed to have gone on for so long the number of people going off on a date with their 72s seems suspiciously small. Surely there were a lot of people at the base given its sprawling nature and the fact that they seem to even have a marriage reception hall inside? Must be a lot of civvis as well a fauji types there.
> 
> Instead it seems the sole objective seemed to have been those two planes.
> 
> With my CT hat on, I wonder was this a Khan operation because the Chinnis were doing something that was unacceptable with Khan toys? I mean this could be as much a warning to the condom as well as the new condom user, sort of drawing the line on the sand? Could possibly explain the low key US reaction. The low key being the signal to the folks who need to know who is the big daddy?
> 
> Any takers of this line of thought?



ANd also please note the stunning silence of US media on this whole issue. they seemed to be too much reporting torpedo instead of this attack.


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## Stealth IFV

What happened here?


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## Zeeshan360

[/COLOR]


Porus said:


> Did I anywhere say that these are religious books?


 
Even I thot u were speaking abt religious books


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## Porus

Zeeshan360 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> Even I thot u were speaking abt religious books



Yeah, but you were wrong just like him.


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## Porus

And even if these books cannot be labelled as religious, they have been used more successfuly by the establishment to inculcate innocent minds with hate against non Muslims (which is the essence of the ideology of Pakistan) and the concept of the division of this world between Muslim Ummah and Kafirs.


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## Rafi

Our indian enemies can gloat but, we know they are our eternal enemy alongside the takfiri - in fact they are allies of one another in their mission to cause us hurt, but remember this our enemies we will exact a heavy toll for our glorious dead. 

*Life&#8217;s No Life When Honor&#8217;s Left;
Man&#8217;s A Man When Honor&#8217;s Kept.

Nation&#8217;s Honor And Nation&#8217;s Fame;
On Life They Have A Prior Claim.

With Thoughts Of These I Do Remain;
Unvexed With Cares Of Loss Or Gain.*


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## Guest01

P. CHidambaram said:


> Analysis From BR
> 
> 
> 
> ANd also please note the stunning silence of US media on this whole issue. they seemed to be too much reporting torpedo instead of this attack.


 
Surely there is another angle to this standoff (?) because if it was an objective to burn the orions as it seems, then the job was done with the quick insertion and slight pain within the first hour or so. The shock and awe anyway would have kept things busy and before the Lt. arrived with his guys, the raid team could have already taken off from the reservation. Further, considering the conspicuous silence from US, it is clear that there is more to the story. 

If the Jihad Fighters decided to stay back it means that there was more to the event then the burning of the aircrafts. Jungle mein aag lagi to woh to jalta hai jo hota hai, aur woh bhi jalta hai jo nahin hota hai. How about checking the bounce on the following:

There could have been some toys abroad the orions or on the base (which would have need the orion burning as the necessary diversion) which the supreme fighters were after. The toys heist would/could have anyway made it necessary to burn the planes and then the Lt. who arrived on the scene anyway could have put some cold water on the plans and delayed the mission which could have made it essential for some of them to stake it out for the 72 date while the others could have taken off with the merchandise. There have been some noises to this effect in the Indian establishment and add to that the US silence + also no honor and respect speech from General Kiyani yet may mean that situation is fluid and facts and inventories are being assessed.


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## Safriz

ARY news showing latest video footage around Faisal Airbase,and they identified quite a few security lapses..Still no security forces around the site and still just about anybody can enter the base during low tide and many gaps in the boundary walls still exist... When will they wake up?


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## Rafi

safriz said:


> ARY news showing latest video footage around Faisal Airbase,and they identified quite a few security lapses..Still no security forces around the site and still just about anybody can enter the base during low tide and many gaps in the boundary walls still exist... When will they wake up?


 
Safriz the Orions and other aircraft are no longer in the base, and have been moved to more secure areas.


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## monitor

which are the more secured based ? the terrorist even hit GHQ earlier . i think some think radical change is necessary to secure the military installation . today we are discussing attack by terrorist who may have had help from out side force yet the navy had failed to secured their asset. what will happens when any direct attack comes from a professional force ?


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## Peshwa

pakdefender said:


> moron where in his post do you see any mention of Haqqni and Mullah Omer ?


 
HAHAHAHA....Love it!

I dont even need to personally attack you....You're your own worst enemy when it comes to PDS (Public Display of Stupidity)

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## monitor

Pakistan removes base commander after Taliban attack

By Hasan Mansoor (AFP) &#8211; 

KARACHI &#8212; Pakistan on Wednesday removed the commander of a naval air base that took 17 hours to quell a deeply embarrassing Taliban attack that killed 10 security personnel and destroyed two US-made aircraft.

Although a navy spokesman insisted the transfer was pre-planned and unconnected to the gun, grenade and rocket assault, Pakistan's military is under increasing domestic pressure to be held accountable over security lapses.

The US killing of Osama bin Laden near the country's top military academy humiliated the armed forces -- for the perceived violation of sovereignty and over allegations they were either incompetent or complicit with Al-Qaeda.

"Commodore Khalid Pervez is taking over as the base commander and his predecessor Raja Tahir will be assigned new responsibilities," Commander Salman Ali, a navy spokesman, told AFP. He did not say what new job the outgoing commander will hold.
"It is a routine and scheduled transfer. The base commander was scheduled to be replaced, even if there was no attack on the facility," he said.

The assault was the worst on a military base since the army headquarters was besieged in October 2009, and piled further embarrassment on the armed forces three weeks after US Navy SEALs found bin Laden living under their noses.

The siege has forced authorities to consider relocating the navy's main air base in Karachi away from its current populated area, near the international airport, and fanned debate about the safety of the country's nuclear weapons.

Karachi is Pakistan's financial capital and the assault was the fourth on the navy after three bombings in late April killed nine people.

The city, which is used by NATO to ship supplies to Afghanistan, has also suffered scores of killings linked to ethnic and political tensions between migrant Pashtuns from the northwest and the local Urdu-speaking majority.

After the attack took an entire night and most of the day to repel, Admiral Noman Bashir, the chief of naval staff, conceded that relocation was possible.

Before the attack, Pakistan's Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar, who went to China last week, said Islamabad has asked Beijing for help in building a naval base at its deep-sea port of Gwadar, on the Arabian Sea west of Karachi.

"When the Mehran base was established 36 years ago it was far from the population. But now it is surrounded by civilian populations on all sides, thus the security risks have multiplied," said Commander Ali.

He said it would be impossible to relocate each of the more than a dozen navy bases in Karachi, but that serious thought was going into Mehran, the only navy air base in the sprawling city of 16 million.

"Relocation is a highly technical and cumbersome task. It is not a matter of days. The authorities are thinking about all possibilities and requirements before shifting Mehran elsewhere," said Ali.

He insisted that other installations in the port city were "safe and satisfactorily secure."
The New York Times said that a mere 24 kilometres (15 miles) from Mehran, Pakistan was believed to keep a large depot for nuclear weapons that can be delivered from the air.

On Tuesday, NATO secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he was confident Pakistan's nuclear weapons were safe, but admitted it was a matter of concern, when pressed by a journalist the day after the Karachi attack.

Copyright © 2011 AFP. All rights reserved.


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## Rafi

The US has intimated that it is willing to provide 2 additional P3C Orions with upgrades as replacement for the ones lost.


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## monitor

Good news then for Pakistan .


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## mjnaushad

Rafi said:


> The US has intimated that it is willing to provide 2 additional P3C Orions with upgrades as replacement for the ones lost.


 
Now people will say that it was done by ISI to get new ACs.....


And it will not be counted as conspiracy theory.

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## Rafi

mjnaushad said:


> Now people will say that it was done by ISI to get new ACs.....
> 
> 
> And it will not be counted as conspiracy theory.


 
I cannot be held responsible for conspiracy theories.


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## Roybot

Is US replacing it for free?


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## Rafi

roy_gourav said:


> Is US replacing it for free?


 
Yes - according to my sources.


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## Roybot

Rafi said:


> Yes - according to my sources.


 
Thats not too bad then. Who needs an insurance cover, when you have America as an "ally".


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## Che Guevara

*Pakistan removes base commander after Taliban attack*

KARACHI &#8212; Pakistan on Wednesday removed the commander of a naval air base that took 17 hours to quell a deeply embarrassing Taliban attack that killed 10 security personnel and destroyed two US-made aircraft.
Although a navy spokesman insisted the transfer was pre-planned and unconnected to the gun, grenade and rocket assault, Pakistan's military is under increasing domestic pressure to be held accountable over security lapses.
The US killing of Osama bin Laden near the country's top military academy humiliated the armed forces -- for the perceived violation of sovereignty and over allegations they were either incompetent or complicit with Al-Qaeda.
"Commodore Khalid Pervez is taking over as the base commander and his predecessor Raja Tahir will be assigned new responsibilities," Commander Salman Ali, a navy spokesman, told AFP. He did not say what new job the outgoing commander will hold.
"It is a routine and scheduled transfer. The base commander was scheduled to be replaced, even if there was no attack on the facility," he said.
The assault was the worst on a military base since the army headquarters was besieged in October 2009, and piled further embarrassment on the armed forces three weeks after US Navy SEALs found bin Laden living under their noses.
The siege has forced authorities to consider relocating the navy's main air base in Karachi away from its current populated area, near the international airport, and fanned debate about the safety of the country's nuclear weapons.
Karachi is Pakistan's financial capital and the assault was the fourth on the navy after three bombings in late April killed nine people.
The city, which is used by NATO to ship supplies to Afghanistan, has also suffered scores of killings linked to ethnic and political tensions between migrant Pashtuns from the northwest and the local Urdu-speaking majority.
After the attack took an entire night and most of the day to repel, Admiral Noman Bashir, the chief of naval staff, conceded that relocation was possible.
Before the attack, Pakistan's Defence Minister Ahmad Mukhtar, who went to China last week, said Islamabad has asked Beijing for help in building a naval base at its deep-sea port of Gwadar, on the Arabian Sea west of Karachi.
"When the Mehran base was established 36 years ago it was far from the population. But now it is surrounded by civilian populations on all sides, thus the security risks have multiplied," said Commander Ali.
He said it would be impossible to relocate each of the more than a dozen navy bases in Karachi, but that serious thought was going into Mehran, the only navy air base in the sprawling city of 16 million.
"Relocation is a highly technical and cumbersome task. It is not a matter of days. The authorities are thinking about all possibilities and requirements before shifting Mehran elsewhere," said Ali.
He insisted that other installations in the port city were "safe and satisfactorily secure."
The New York Times said that a mere 24 kilometres (15 miles) from Mehran, Pakistan was believed to keep a large depot for nuclear weapons that can be delivered from the air.
On Tuesday, NATO secretary general Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he was confident Pakistan's nuclear weapons were safe, but admitted it was a matter of concern, when pressed by a journalist the day after the Karachi attack.

AFP: Pakistan removes base commander after Taliban attack


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## MastanKhan

Abu Basit said:


> and where does the American terrorists fit in your Khilafat model- what will the Caliph do to terrorists like Raymond Davis;
> 
> a) behead the useless American terrorist
> b) have a cup of tea with the terrorist
> 
> I would also like to know, how your proposed model of Khilafat will deal with liberal fascists, american boot lickers and most importantly, will your Khilafat model enforce Islamic laws in the state.
> 
> Now lets see if you are really sincere or just using the name of Khilafat to propagate Americanized agenda.


 
Hi,

It would basically start at one step at a time---just like the building blocks---you put a brick at a time and then you leave the work at nightfor it to rest and settle and go to the next step---that is how it will work.

Now as for Raymond Davis---here is what will happen----. Pakistanis will get some kind of education in small segements---like small ads on tv----if you donot want to use the gun----donot hold it in and display it under ordinary circumstances---if you are riding your bicycle/motorcycle---a gun in your hand means a threat to someone----with whomsoever you lock your eyes with. It will be added in the ad---if you play with man toys---please learn to accept the consequences.

And if you are a regular highway robber---the police will also follow through and see who in your family is involved and prosecute them as well---for aiding and abetting a criminal.

The model is one step at a time---so as things progress---so will the model. 

In your side---how do you deal with arab lickers----I mean to say about 90 % of pakistani population licks the hinny and feet of the arabs----should I deal with them first or should I leave it for later!


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## MastanKhan

Rafi said:


> Our indian enemies can gloat but, we know they are our eternal enemy alongside the takfiri - in fact they are allies of one another in their mission to cause us hurt, but remember this our enemies we will exact a heavy toll for our glorious dead.
> 
> *Life&#8217;s No Life When Honor&#8217;s Left;
> Man&#8217;s A Man When Honor&#8217;s Kept.
> 
> Nation&#8217;s Honor And Nation&#8217;s Fame;
> On Life They Have A Prior Claim.
> 
> With Thoughts Of These I Do Remain;
> Unvexed With Cares Of Loss Or Gain.*


 
Hi,

"THOSE WHO RUN AWAY

LIVE TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY"

Following in the steps of Prophet Mohammad


Sir,

Thank you for your comments---but not all situation fit the scene that you want to create and not all situations fit the scene that I want to create----you know what happens to the trees that cannot bend against the strong wind.

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## F86 Saber

Before we enforce the "Rule of Islam" in the state of Pakistan, I as a "Liberal Fascist" having minimal knowledge of Islam would like to know what are the correct rules of Islam? The Wahabi defined rules? The Bralvi defined rules? the Sunni defined rules? the Shia defined rules? the Deobandi defined rules? Which one is correct? Because if put one Mullah each from these sects in one room you'll get to see something worst than "Jerry Springer Show", and i am an eye witness of such an event.

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## Watani

iPhone said:


> you're the one resorting to conspiracies here. osama was first in Afghnistan where he got a warm reception from the taliban over there and under there rule and support he launched 9/11.


Really? Then why didn't he send the Taliban to attack the TT instead??



iPhone said:


> fine you wanna keep on sheltering terrorists from Pakistan or anywhere in the world under your pushtoon customs, you have a pathetic way of justifying it, it's your call.


Don't make me start on sheltering terrorists worldwide, you will be surprised about which place was the first country Tajikistani, Uzbekistani, Chechen and other 'international' Taliban fled to right after US invasion.



bilalhaider said:


> bablabla


Like ASA said you aren't even worth any reply any more but since I had decided I will debate in a lower tone with you after our discussion while ago (which didn't go too well) I will only advice you to come back to your normal self and don't spoil your health with the ongoing anger and frustration.



AAtish said:


> Oh i was talking about OBL's killing in Abbottabad.. did you implemented your 'proof' logic on there also?.. NO.. your government just started jumping up and down.. No one has any proof up until now, and you are referring to it as a developed FACT.. am i not right?


Isn't that what the world is already doing, inquiry about facts?? After all the points that arise after his 'death' quiet alot of it confirms his death, though even I am waiting for an official statement about his actual death. Leaving aside the fact Bhutto mentioning his death years ago.



Hammy007 said:


> watani whats your name??
> i would like to dedicate a song for you


Next time before dedicating any song to anyone make sure what the lyrics say, because right now you come across like a homo. No joke.



muse said:


> Is this the Watani thread or the PNS Mehran thread? -- get a grip people.


Allow them, if they don't burst out their pathetic-ness on someone they will burst out within.

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## Stealth IFV

> "It is a routine and scheduled transfer. The base commander was scheduled to be replaced, even if there was no attack on the facility," he said.



Ouch, that has to hurt for a Pakistani to hear at this stage. I believe the more incompetence felt in the streets, the more possible Civil War becomes. We the global public whose neighbours, sons and daughters have died in Afghanistan on a wild fuckin goose hunt deserve to know wtf is going on.

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## amna

watani,

are you farsiwan? why don't you support your pashtoon brothers?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Peshwa said:


> LOL...So assuming Haqqani is under "Political assylum" eh? We already know that Osama was the guest of honor in Pakistan....
> 
> Oh wait...you're right, I take it back The Taliban was a "political" organization and Mullah Omar was the President of the Afghanistan recognized by the UN right?
> 
> Now start flip-flopping on your comments....Im very eager to see you wiggle your way out...


 
My ignorant friend instead of stickin to ur name and postin like a false peshwa...... Read something and enlighten urself.


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## deckingraj

roy_gourav said:


> Thats not too bad then. Who needs an insurance cover, when you have America as an "ally".


 
There ain't any free lunches buddy....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

amna said:


> watani,
> 
> are you farsiwan? why don't you support your pashtoon brothers?


 
This has got nothin to do with the topic.....


P.S=Help pashtons at what?


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## Hammy007

amna said:


> watani,
> 
> are you farsiwan? why don't you support your pashtoon brothers?


 
if he curse at pashtuns, he is certainly a north alliance shia, but afghans hate pakistan in general


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## Abu Zolfiqar

uhhhh you dont have to be Shiia to be a NA supporter...

stop this Shiia-Sunni talk. It's not good, at all. 

how would you feel if i told you that as a MUSLIM (born to Shiia Muslim parents), i would still shake hand with taleb before shaking hands with NA militiaman?

not that i care for either of them; both are not necessarily friends, though one is very clear on its enmity with Pakistan

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## Abu Zolfiqar

STOP ILLEGAL LAND ENCROACHMENTS

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## MastanKhan

F86 Saber said:


> Before we enforce the "Rule of Islam" in the state of Pakistan, I as a "Liberal Fascist" having minimal knowledge of Islam would like to know what are the correct rules of Islam? The Wahabi defined rules? The Bralvi defined rules? the Sunni defined rules? the Shia defined rules? the Deobandi defined rules? Which one is correct? Because if put one Mullah each from these sects in one room you'll get to see something worst than "Jerry Springer Show", and i am an eye witness of such an event.


 
Hi,

There are no correct laws of islam persay----they are the general laws that we have lived by for centuries----justice and peace for the weak and the poor-----the mullahs don't form the laws----now some laws may have been enhanced. The laws are simple---they need to set a precedent----they need to set a standard of justice---they need to have severe punishments for serious crimes---the punishments need to be examplary---regardless of who they are----general punishments are the same for regardless of what sects and religion you are----the state doesnot discriminate in handing out capitol punishment on the basis of religion----now property disputes maybe be settled on the religious basis.

In setting up a system that is in disarray---you have to start against the major crimes first----which are robbery at gun point---murder---terrorist threats and attacks---in a state of emergency----any statements given out to spread discontent against the state or malice against the govt---acting aganist the interests of the state's welfare etc are pretty much coming in that category. Bribery---using bad material shoddy workmanship all come under the category of damaging the state and state image---. Gang rapes--molestations--child molestations and trafficking---drugs are in the same category.

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## fatman17

*ANALYSIS: PAKISTAN MARITIME SURVEILLANCE SUFFERS SETBACK*

As Western defence officials have said, the halving of Pakistan Navy's P-3C fleet will seriously undermine its maritime capabilities.

The navy's primary concern is the prospect of an Indian Navy blockade of its naval bases or the commercial harbour at Port Qasim in Karachi. To prevent such an eventuality, the navy has been using its P-3Cs for airborne maritime patrol in littoral and deep-water environments and has also demonstrated the aircraft's anti-ship missile capabilities through live firings of Exocet 39 and Harpoon missiles. 

Pakistan will now also be less able to monitor its waters to prevent militants from launching seaborne attacks on India - a vulnerability for which Pakistan was heavily criticised for in the wake of the 2008 Mumbai attack. 

The loss of the Orions is especially painful because the navy has historically been the most neglected and smallest of the armed services and has only recently benefited from a series of new procurement programmes. Major acquisitions - highlighted by the ongoing delivery of eight new P-3Cs from the United States and four new Zulfiqar-class (F-22P) frigates from China - are intended to bolster the navy's confidence as well as its reputation. The attack on PNS Mehran has thus dealt the navy a serious psychological setback as well as a physical one.

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## muse

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> There are no correct rules of islam persay----they are the general rules that we have lived by for centuries----justice and peace for the weak and the poor-----the mullahs don't form the rules----now some rules may have been enhanced. The rules are simple---they need to set a precedent----they need to set a standard of justice---they need to have severe punishments for serious crimes---the punishments need to be examplary---regardless of who they are----general punishments are the same for regardless of what sects and religion you are----the state doesnot discriminate in handing out capitol punishment on the basis of religion----now property disputes maybe be settled on the religious basis.
> 
> In setting up a system that is in disarray---you have to start against the major crimes first----which are robbery at gun point---murder---terrorist threats and attacks---in a state of emergency----any statements given out to spread discontent against the state or malice against the govt---acting aganist the interests of the state's welfare etc are pretty much coming in that category. Bribery---using bad material shoddy workmanship all come under the category of damaging the state and stae image---. Gang rapes--molestations--child molestations and trafficking---drugs are in the same category.


 
Today, no one, not even Muslims, will agree that Islam stands for Justice, or for Peace -- really, Muslims have lost this to Islamists - Santro has made a great point in the "Ummah Yearnings" thread on the current affairs board, that while Islamists are not Muslims, they use Quran and concepts and idioms of Islam and have more or less transformed what we though was Islam --- Islam is no more associated with Justice, with Peace, it is associated with niggardly pursuits such inequality before the law, the most sadistic of punishments to go with the most repressive of laws, with the contraction of conscience, with the violent pursuit of political and social causes - and of course with terrorism, as a given. 

So of course it is regrettable, but it is what it is.


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## JonAsad

How many well trained indian terrorists- can now sneak into Pakistan via Submarine undetected?-


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## Paan Singh

Glorious Resolve said:


> How many well trained indian terrorists- can now sneak into Pakistan via Submarine undetected?-


 
even i went to karachi by cycle yesterday ,leave the terrorist


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## JonAsad

Prism said:


> even i went to karachi by cycle yesterday ,leave the terrorist


 
With avatar like this- you are welcome again-

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## F86 Saber

MastanKhan said:


> Hi,
> 
> There are no correct rules of islam persay----they are the general rules that we have lived by for centuries----justice and peace for the weak and the poor-----the mullahs don't form the rules----now some rules may have been enhanced. The rules are simple---they need to set a precedent----they need to set a standard of justice---they need to have severe punishments for serious crimes---the punishments need to be examplary---regardless of who they are----general punishments are the same for regardless of what sects and religion you are----the state doesnot discriminate in handing out capitol punishment on the basis of religion----now property disputes maybe be settled on the religious basis.
> 
> In setting up a system that is in disarray---you have to start against the major crimes first----which are robbery at gun point---murder---terrorist threats and attacks---in a state of emergency----any statements given out to spread discontent against the state or malice against the govt---acting aganist the interests of the state's welfare etc are pretty much coming in that category. Bribery---using bad material shoddy workmanship all come under the category of damaging the state and stae image---. Gang rapes--molestations--child molestations and trafficking---drugs are in the same category.


 
These general rules you have mentioned are not associated to Islam only, these are general rules of humanity preached by every religion, then why do you want to implement them in the name of Islam?? Why do you want a Caliph to enforce them when just a strict administrator would do? Bringing the name of Islam into this will only give the Mullah another opportunity to use his tainted vision and limited knowledge to de track any efforts to deal with criminals as you mentioned above. 

I totally agree with what muse has said and it reiterates my point, to be good Muslims we need to be Muslims first and to be Muslims we need to be humans first. These so called "Good Muslims" killing thousands of innocents cannot even be termed as humans, the bad Muslims who believe in peace are at least human.

A current "Nizam-e-Khilafat" under the current Mullah will only mean implementation of punishments like "Beheading of people not carrying beards and not wearing shalwar above their ankles" and "Sangsar" of "Women not wearing a burkha". This is not Islam only.

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## F86 Saber

Prism said:


> even i went to karachi by cycle yesterday ,leave the terrorist


 
I'm curious, did you bring your own "Cycle" or did you borrow a "Cycle" from one of your friends? In any case, hope the Karachiites treated your "Cycle" well.....


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## Aamir Hussain

With my little bit of experience with the armed forces, living in the vicinity of the PAF base, and some inside info. I can with confidence tell you that there were more than 6 terrs. The amount of firing was extremely severe in the initial stages -- the number of fire positions firing at the SSG uints were more than ten!!! It is highly improbable that there were escapees as the blocking force consisted of SSG's interlaced with regular Army Units just before dawn.

As per my knowledge and also reported in some sections of the press, atleast some persons have been taken into custody from the base on Monday and were flown to an undisclosed location. I am guessing here that there is window of opportuntiy of not more than six to eight days for the interrogation team before the Terr. Launchers realize that some of their cahoots have been taken into custody and a rapid dispersal from back up safe houses come into play. If all goes well we will start seeing arrests (I would presume some of them would be from Navy and Airforce lower ranks) in commnig days.

As far as Fatman17's assesment on loss of detection capability for sea intrusion by terr. into India -- that, I am afraid, in the near future, is the biggest headache for both the countries. India should be as concerned as we are with what is happening here.

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## RescueRanger

P. CHidambaram said:


> Food for thought for all conspiRapists here: WHy is American Media so silent?



Perhaps this will wet your appetite: 



> Containing Pakistan is not feasible and attempting to do so isn`t desirable. Pakistan simply has too many asymmetric retaliatory options, said Dr Christian C. Fair, a faculty member at the Georgetown University.

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## Aamir Hussain

RescueRanger said:


> Perhaps this will wet your appetite:


 
It does not mean that Dr. Fair's assesment is the official policy of USG. On the contrary they are trying to avoid an implosion and a containment fiasco.

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## MilSpec

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> STOP ILLEGAL LAND ENCROACHMENTS


 
self delete


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## greatf

Mr. Xeric you mentioned very clearly some of bad people in our society who being civillian are offering namaz-e-janaza and other things to creat sympathy with so called Jihadis and Shaheeds. How about those who are serving in Military Institutions and still have strong potential towards them..??? army being an institution is our Pride Honor and when somebody hit out pride and honor we have the right to say (whether u like it or not) So question is not that how many enemies we are fighting with.. WE ARE ONLY FIGHTING WITH ONE ENEMY (OURSELVES) Hm mein jo shidat pasand mojood hain unka ilaj kaisay karna hai whether civilians or military personnel...
SSG Naval Commando was arrested in januray 2011 he was from the Mehsood Family...during investigation he told authorities about the plan of PNS Mehran Attack... Kia keya Gaya.. ab tak..? Nothing...
So we must leave criticizing others, As we are no more superiors we have been challanged in the same way as other civilian institutions had....


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## F86 Saber

Aamir Hussain said:


> With my little bit of experience with the armed forces, living in the vicinity of the PAF base, and some inside info. I can with confidence tell you that there were more than 6 terrs. The amount of firing was extremely severe in the initial stages -- the number of fire positions firing at the SSG uints were more than ten!!! It is highly improbable that there were escapees as the blocking force consisted of SSG's interlaced with regular Army Units just before dawn.
> 
> As per my knowledge and also reported in some sections of the press, atleast some persons have been taken into custody from the base on Monday and were flown to an undisclosed location. I am guessing here that there is window of opportuntiy of not more than six to eight days for the interrogation team before the Terr. Launchers realize that some of their cahoots have been taken into custody and a rapid dispersal from back up safe houses come into play. If all goes well we will start seeing arrests (I would presume some of them would be from Navy and Airforce lower ranks) in commnig days.
> 
> As far as Fatman17's assesment on loss of detection capability for sea intrusion by terr. into India -- that, I am afraid, in the near future, is the biggest headache for both the countries. India should be as concerned as we are with what is happening here.


 
Sir don't count on arrests because if you can have access to the information that some terrorists were arrested then the moles who are already within would definitely know and would be long gone. Another possibility is that the terrorists might not even know the identity of the moles because their job was only to provide detailed information about the security setup of the base, i don't think anyone from the inside would have helped them physically during the attack. Unless the captured are actually from the services they will be useless in identifying the moles, but if they are, we will never hear the real story.


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## fatman17

Aamir Hussain said:


> With my little bit of experience with the armed forces, living in the vicinity of the PAF base, and some inside info. I can with confidence tell you that there were more than 6 terrs. The amount of firing was extremely severe in the initial stages -- the number of fire positions firing at the SSG uints were more than ten!!! It is highly improbable that there were escapees as the blocking force consisted of SSG's interlaced with regular Army Units just before dawn.
> 
> As per my knowledge and also reported in some sections of the press, atleast some persons have been taken into custody from the base on Monday and were flown to an undisclosed location. I am guessing here that there is window of opportuntiy of not more than six to eight days for the interrogation team before the Terr. Launchers realize that some of their cahoots have been taken into custody and a rapid dispersal from back up safe houses come into play. If all goes well we will start seeing arrests (I would presume some of them would be from Navy and Airforce lower ranks) in commnig days.
> 
> As far as Fatman17's assesment on loss of detection capability for sea intrusion by terr. into India -- that, I am afraid, in the near future, is the biggest headache for both the countries. India should be as concerned as we are with what is happening here.



fully agreed!


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## Bang Galore

*Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack*

_*Umar Cheema
Thursday, May 26, 2011*_

ISLAMABAD: A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud&#8217;s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.

He had also warned that oil depots and power grid stations were also on the hit list of the militants. An official privy to the details said the marine commando who was picked up following his involvement in suspicious activities, had informed about the plan of attack on PNS Mehran. He also predicted attacks on other naval installations.

No serious measures were taken to avert attack on this naval base. Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Directorate of Public Relations offered no comment when contacted for its version.According to the official source, the arrested individual belongs to South Waziristan agency and is of Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, and Hakimullah Mehsud who have rocked Pakistan through bombing and attacks on strategically important posts.

Incidentally, the PNS Mehran attack has also been claimed by TTP to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda founder.

Besides attack on the PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was also available on the impending attack on GHQ six months before it was carried out but the army sat over the info.

The negligence on part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged the militants who have named the intelligence agencies as &#8220;sheep&#8221;. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as &#8216;goats&#8217; by the militants, according to the communication record obtained through a USB flash drive and deciphered by the experts. The flash drive was recovered from the driver of an explosive-laden truck intercepted in Dera Ghazi Khan in April 2009, exactly six months before the GHQ attack.

The flash drive carried instructions for TTP affiliates in Punjab and elsewhere. While it advised the militants in Southern Punjab to go into hiding amid reports of possible crackdown, the flash drive also contained a blue print of attack on GHQ. It used the coded language of &#8216;sheep&#8217; and &#8216;goats&#8217;. Upon deciphering these code words, it was found out that intelligence sleuths were dubbed as sheep and the armed forces personnel as goats. 

Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack

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## ARCHON

> A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud&#8217;s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.



Oh boy.... they have recruits from mehsud's tribe and was arrested... dear o dear....


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## Last Hope

*Russian-made walkie-talkies found near PNS Mehran runway​*
KARACHI: Investigative authorities have found a walkie-talkie set from the eastern side of the runway at PNS Mehran air base. The set was allegedly used by the terrorists during the attack that took place at the PNS Mehran earlier this week, DawnNews reported on Thursday.

According to sources, during a recent search of the bushes surrounding the eastern end of the runway, the walkie-talkie set &#8211; which is of a Russian make &#8211; was found near the location from where the terrorists had entered the base. The walkie-talkie has been sent to the laboratories for forensic evidence.

Meanwhile, fresh samples of the attackers&#8217; fingerprints have been dispatched to NADRA a second time for identification. The investigation officer has said that the NADRA database contains about 70 to 80 million fingerprint records, while the report might take up to three to four days.

Russian-made walkie-talkies found near PNS Mehran runway | Pakistan | DAWN.COM
_(First result showed no record in the NADRA database)_


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## T-Faz

Navy officers suspect inside job in PNS Mehran &#8211; The Express Tribune

*KARACHI: Officials from Pakistan Navy suspect the May 22 naval airbase attack would not have been possible without inside help.*

They, however, deny that the change in command at the PNS Mehran has anything to do with the attack and termed the transfer orders a &#8216;routine&#8217; matter.

*Inside job*

When the attackers cut the barbed wire on the perimeter wall at the end of the Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s (PAF) Faisal base which is adjacent to the PNS Mehran, they had two options.

Instead of the naval base, they could have gone after the assets and personnel of the air force, but they chose not to, even though there were at least four American-made C-130 cargo planes on the PAF side.

*&#8220;The attackers knew that the navy&#8217;s prized assets such as the Orion aircraft and the Chinese and American personnel were present on our base and they came specifically after them,&#8221; a senior navy officer said, admitting that no one on the outside could have known about it.

He said the attackers knew the base &#8220;inside out&#8221; and were well aware of the points where they would have &#8220;an advantage over the security forces&#8221; who would engage them.*

He pointed out that three of the Special Service Group commandos, who were sent in to subdue the attackers, saying this was &#8220;no easy feat&#8221;.

The navy officials suspects the reconnaissance prior to the attack was carried out not only by someone taking visual footage of the base from the nearby Karsaz bridge, but also by someone from inside the sprawling base where, more than 500 personnel are deployed at any given time.

However, they denied that the attackers were provided weapons by some insider and insisted that the terrorists were equipped with their own Russian-made machine guns, grenades and rocket launchers.

&#8220;They are definitely some people suspected of involvement from within, but we&#8217;re still investigating exactly who was behind it,&#8221; he said.

&#8220;From a janitor to an officer at the base, everyone is a suspect at this point,&#8221; he said.

*He said that previously there have been cases when clerics of local mosques at naval premises were found to be involved in &#8216;anti-state&#8217; activities.*

While the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan have claimed responsibility for the attack, navy officials say that they are not ruling out the possibility of a &#8220;foreign country&#8217;s intelligence agency&#8217;s involvement in the incident&#8221;.

Rear-Admiral Tehseenullah Khan, who was the former director-general of the Maritime Security Agency, has been appointed as the head of the team probing the case.

*Uzbek attackers?*

Navy officials insist the attackers were &#8220;not Pakistanis, but foreigners&#8221;.

&#8220;When I saw the body, I immediately knew that the young man was (an) Uzbek,&#8221; a navy official said. He provided no forensic evidence to support his assertion.

However, doctors who conducted the autopsy on the bodies of the four terrorists contradicted the navy&#8217;s asertion and said they looked like &#8220;any other young Pakistani men&#8221; from northern areas.

Interestingly, the autopsy report says the terrorists were &#8220;Muslim males between the ages of 22 and 26&#8221;. When asked how they determined the religious leanings of the terrorists, the doctor said the autopsy revealed they were circumcised.

Meanwhile, security agencies on Wednesday took a new set of samples for DNA testing from the bodies of the four terrorists being kept at an Edhi morgue.

*Change of command*

Base commander Raja Tahir has been replaced by Commodore Khalid Pervez. Although the announcement of the change in command of the PNS Mehran has been made only two days after the attack, Pakistan Navy officials insist it is nothing out of the ordinary.

&#8220;There&#8217;s no truth that Tahir is being replaced as punishment since his replacement orders had been issued four months age and Commodore Pervez has been on the base for more than a week,&#8221; a navy official said.

A navy official says that even though they were being blamed for a massive security lapse, the fact is that the breach occurred on the side of the wall that comes under the air force&#8217;s jurisdiction.

&#8220;They have their own cameras and watchtowers there and failed to spot the attackers. So why blame us,&#8221; the official said. He added that there was no question about heads being rolled for the incident.

*Rehman Malik*

Navy officials are extremely upset with Rehman Malik&#8217;s statement that some attackers might have escaped the base and say their chief, Admiral Noman Bashir, had no alternative but to agree with the federal minister&#8217;s statement.

They also say it was peculiar that Malik came on air at 10:43pm on Sunday, claiming that around 10 to 15 attackers had not only infiltrated the PNS Mehran base, but also taken control.

&#8220;The attack began at 10:37pm. How could he claim to know all that when even we at the control room did not know the exact position,&#8221; they added. A navy officer admitted it was a mistake on their part for lodging an FIR which said there were more than 10 attackers.

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## T-Faz

> He said that previously there have been cases when *clerics of local mosques at naval premises were found to be involved in &#8216;anti-state&#8217; activities.*



One of the biggest problems faced by this nation, these bloody Mullah bastards.

They were against the idea of Pakistan then, they are against it now.

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## Last Hope

Well T-fazzy, not the Navy as a whole could be involved, but few Naval personnel just like pre 71'.
According to some Defence Analysts, the same thing has started to go once again. Search for the thread _'1971 War - The Untold Story - EXPOSING Propanganda and the telling the truth'_ on the forum. It might make things clear why is it happening and the timings.

Regards.


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## T-Faz

Last Hope said:


> Well T-fazzy, not the Navy as a whole could be involved, but few Naval personnel just like pre 71'.
> According to some Defence Analysts, the same thing has started to go once again. Search for the thread _'1971 War - The Untold Story - EXPOSING Propanganda and the telling the truth'_ on the forum. It might make things clear why is it happening and the timings.
> 
> Regards.


 
Of course, we all agree that the terrorists have internal support.

Its not the entire institute but members within its ranks who support the terrorists.


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## muse

A chain of failures have led us here - but prime among them has to be the failure of the Pakistani armed forces -- it is their own who have trained and gotten trained, to destroy Jinnah's Pakistan and to replace it with something more arab --- but why have the armed forces been so lax in tackling this problem?? Well, friends, it was not always thought of as a "problem" for Pakistan 


*Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack*

Umar Cheema
Thursday, May 26, 2011

ISLAMABAD: A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud&#8217;s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.

He had also warned that oil depots and power grid stations were also on the hit list of the militants. An official privy to the details said the marine commando who was picked up following his involvement in suspicious activities, had informed about the plan of attack on PNS Mehran. He also predicted attacks on other naval installations.

No serious measures were taken to avert attack on this naval base. Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Directorate of Public Relations offered no comment when contacted for its version.According to the official source, the arrested individual belongs to South Waziristan agency and is of Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, and Hakimullah Mehsud who have rocked Pakistan through bombing and attacks on strategically important posts.

Incidentally, the PNS Mehran attack has also been claimed by TTP to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda founder.

Besides attack on the PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was also available on the impending attack on GHQ six months before it was carried out but the army sat over the info.

The negligence on part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged the militants who have named the intelligence agencies as &#8220;sheep&#8221;. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as &#8216;goats&#8217; by the militants, according to the communication record obtained through a USB flash drive and deciphered by the experts. The flash drive was recovered from the driver of an explosive-laden truck intercepted in Dera Ghazi Khan in April 2009, exactly six months before the GHQ attack.

The flash drive carried instructions for TTP affiliates in Punjab and elsewhere. While it advised the militants in Southern Punjab to go into hiding amid reports of possible crackdown, the flash drive also contained a blue print of attack on GHQ. It used the coded language of &#8216;sheep&#8217; and &#8216;goats&#8217;. Upon deciphering these code words, it was found out that intelligence sleuths were dubbed as sheep and the armed forces personnel as goats.


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## IceCold

T-Faz said:


> One of the biggest problems faced by this nation, these bloody Mullah bastards.
> 
> They were against the idea of Pakistan then, they are against it now.


 
Thats one side of the problem, there are many others for which we seem oblivious. For starters instead of owning up to the security lapse, navy is busy pointing fingers on the air force. Night goggles just don't fall out of the sky. Definitely some one provided them. These are all problems and we would have to address them simultaneously if we want to survive. Blaming the Mullahs alone won't help.


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## mastaan

T-Faz said:


> One of the biggest problems faced by this nation, these bloody Mullah bastards.
> 
> They were against the idea of Pakistan then, they are against it now.


 
No mean intentions... i'd like to know more... Do public really support these extremist mullahs? if not, then why is GoP not reigning them in... We also face a similar problem, but in the last 2 years, government has started getting tough (albiet a lot still needs to be done) on terror of any color, but from what i read on internet, the soft corner towards these guys stays...

And, if you could direct me a source to read more about your second line... I was astonished to read something like as it sort of sounded like contrary to my belief... i thought these guys would have fukly supported the idea of a separate nation for Muslims...


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## muse

> Do public really support these extremist mullahs?



Is that the right question?? Since when did these people ever have large scale support ? The important thing is that the army support them - and of course everybody else is scared - even in the armed forces, people have to be or appear to be supportive, there's a career to consider


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## T-Faz

IceCold said:


> Thats one side of the problem, there are many others for which we seem oblivious. For starters instead of owning up to the security lapse, navy is busy pointing fingers on the air force. Night goggles just don't fall out of the sky. Definitely some one provided them. These are all problems and we would have to address them simultaneously if we want to survive. Blaming the Mullahs alone won't help.


 
The security lapse occurred because of our incompetencies and the lack of effective security protocols in place.

Thus the blame game starts and the PN is pointing towards PAF which might be justifiable.

As for Night Goggles, they can be bought in any black market and are readily available.

These problems can be addressed by the nation and we have the capability to do so but not the resolve.

The biggest problem that we have is the spread of extremism amidst our country, this cancer is growing at an exceedingly high rate and needs to stopped, this is the main problem.


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## T-Faz

mastaan said:


> No mean intentions... i'd like to know more... Do public really support these extremist mullahs? if not, then why is GoP not reigning them in... We also face a similar problem, but in the last 2 years, government has started getting tough (albiet a lot still needs to be done) on terror of any color, but from what i read on internet, the soft corner towards these guys stays...



They have substantial support amongst many in this nation and the Gov is scared of facing them because of religion.



> And, if you could direct me a source to read more about your second line... I was astonished to read something like as it sort of sounded like contrary to my belief... i thought these guys would have fukly supported the idea of a separate nation for Muslims...


 
Its well known that the religious clergy of British India opposed Pakistan bitterly, they labelled Pakistan 'NaPakistan' and Jinnah 'Kafir-e-Azam'.

Here is a good article covering the opposition.



> *At the time when Jinnah was spearheading the movement for Pakistan, the religious right, and more specifically the Majlis-i-Ahrar and the Jamaat-e-Islami founder Maulana Maududi, were vociferous opponents of the concept of Pakistan. On March 3, 1940, the working committee of the Majlis-i-Ahrar met in Delhi and reportedly passed a resolution disapproving the Pakistan plan and in some subsequent speeches, the Ahrar leaders reportedly dubbed Pakistan as &#8216;palidistan&#8217;. Maulana Mazhar Ali Azhar, an Ahrar leader, appealed to the people not to be misled by the slogans for Pakistan and, on other occasions, even referred to Jinnah as Kafir-i-Azam.
> 
> Maulana Maududi was also hand in hand with the Ahrar in opposing Jinnah&#8217;s Pakistan. Maududi is reported to have stated that &#8220;Pakistan is a fool&#8217;s paradise and an infidel state of Muslims&#8221; and that &#8220;the Muslim migrants are deserters and cowards, who fought a national battle, but when the time came to pay the price, they took the path of escape&#8221;. The Maulana, as well as the Ahrar, felt that Jinnah&#8217;s idea of Pakistan was a territorial anomaly which went against the Islamic principle of universal brotherhood and, therefore, was against the injunctions of Islam.*



Jinnah and the religious right &#8211; The Express Tribune

Here is another good post which outlines the opposition with references.

Chagatai Khan: Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami & Deobandis had Opposed Pakistan's Creation.


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## fatman17

fatman17 said:


> *ANALYSIS: PAKISTAN MARITIME SURVEILLANCE SUFFERS SETBACK*
> 
> As Western defence officials have said, the halving of Pakistan Navy's P-3C fleet will seriously undermine its maritime capabilities.
> 
> The navy's primary concern is the prospect of an Indian Navy blockade of its naval bases or the commercial harbour at Port Qasim in Karachi. To prevent such an eventuality, the navy has been using its P-3Cs for airborne maritime patrol in littoral and deep-water environments and has also demonstrated the aircraft's anti-ship missile capabilities through live firings of Exocet 39 and Harpoon missiles.
> 
> Pakistan will now also be less able to monitor its waters to prevent militants from launching seaborne attacks on India - a vulnerability for which Pakistan was heavily criticised for in the wake of the 2008 Mumbai attack.
> 
> The loss of the Orions is especially painful because the navy has historically been the most neglected and smallest of the armed services and has only recently benefited from a series of new procurement programmes. Major acquisitions - highlighted by the ongoing delivery of eight new P-3Cs from the United States and four new Zulfiqar-class (F-22P) frigates from China - are intended to bolster the navy's confidence as well as its reputation. The attack on PNS Mehran has thus dealt the navy a serious psychological setback as well as a physical one.



*PN Blinded until December 2012.*

LAHORE: The Pakistan Navy stands partially blinded till December this year after the destruction of two Orions (P-3C) at the PNS Mehran base in Karachi on Sunday night, The News has learnt. 

Sources in the Pakistan Navy revealed the defenders of seas capability to counter any threat from the sea had virtually come down to around 20 percent for the time being with three old Orions stationed in the US for routine repairs, check-up and upgrade. The Navy now has one Orion, a Fokker (upgraded with the required gadget for surveillance) and a Gulfstream jet (upgraded for the purpose). These three stations are not enough to guard the maritime frontiers of the country. The first of the three Orions sent for maintenance is expected to return in December this year. The second and the third Orion are expected to resume service in June and December next year. 

With its 120 nautical-mile (222.24 km) radar and diverse detect and destroy capability, this $36 million aircraft is considered the backbone of Pakistan Navy. Apart from diverse surveillance capability, this aircraft has a broader envelope with the prowess to search and destroy all sea targets in its combat radius (18 hours non-stop flight with an onboard radar, which can detect the target at 360 degrees up to 222.24 kms) with its payload of depth chargers, Harpoon Missiles and Mak-46 torpedoes. In addition to this, these aircraft also assist in indirect or alternate attacks from other sea and air platforms with the help of its sophisticated target detection capability, which helps in searching and locking multiple targets in the sea as well as in the air.

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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> Of course, we all agree that the terrorists have internal support.
> 
> Its not the entire institute but members within its ranks who support the terrorists.



I m more than convinced that there was inside help for this operation... however it is nt our own people in the lower ranks at least... giving that information... and its definitely not the Chinese either...

You have some big fish to hunt for this... Someone who remains undetected and can be a high ranking officer... and the Americans... they must be checked at all cost and stopped from roaming around our bases and GHQ as if it is some meena bazar...


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## mastaan

muse said:


> Is that the right question?? Since when did these people ever have large scale support ? The important thing is that the army support them - and of course everybody else is scared - even in the armed forces, people have to be or appear to be supportive, there's a career to consider


 
But then that makes it a spiral, which has a way to come in, but no way to get out... How can this dangerous link be broken ever? If young men, who join to serve their country get pushed in this direction to overtly/covertly support them, then they will naturally get conditioned to act that way in future... Someday the Political class has to take it in their hands, ruffle some feathers and try to straighten it out and it has to be the public who pushes them... 

Not that it is a lot better on this side of the border, but on some things, you do see public pressure on the government to act or risk losing the next elections and that forces them to act... I mean you have ministers gettin arrested for 'corruption' and that is a first here (not that they never did it in the past) and all that because the politician is scared of that 1 vote from every individual and luckily, this time it is not because of religion or region... It is about national interest and return in investment of the tax-payer... One joker is always scared that the public will vote in the other one if he doesn't 'show' some resolve... I am sure, the same tools are available to you too...

You may say this is not my concern, which will be true... But as a fellow internet junkie, i just want to understand that just how can these politicians and military class get away untouched even after allowing such disasters to happen at such senstive places?


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## T-Faz

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> I m more than convinced that there was inside help for this operation... however it is nt our own people giving that information... and its definitely not the Chinese either...


 
It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.

The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.

It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.

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## mastaan

T-Faz said:


> They have substantial support amongst many in this nation and the Gov is scared of facing them because of religion.
> 
> 
> 
> Its well known that the religious clergy of British India opposed Pakistan bitterly, they labelled Pakistan 'NaPakistan' and Jinnah 'Kafir-e-Azam'.
> 
> Here is a good article covering the opposition.
> 
> 
> 
> Jinnah and the religious right &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> Here is another good post which outlines the opposition with references.
> 
> Chagatai Khan: Mawdudi, Jamat-e-Islami & Deobandis had Opposed Pakistan's Creation.


 
Thanks for the help and patience... There is not 'Thanks' tab in this post, else I would have marked it there... I will read up and get back if I need to understand some more... cheers!


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## Comet

I think this is the first time ever in Pakistani Armed forces when one department has accused other for incompetency so openly and officially. I see decline in discipline.

BTW, I don't buy any thing coming out of Navy Chief's mouth.


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## Comet

T-Faz said:


> It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.
> 
> The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.
> 
> It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.


 
you do have proof of "extremists within the ranks" part, right?


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

T-Faz said:


> It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.
> 
> The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.
> 
> It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.


 
Well then these extremists or whatever you call them have to be found and punished... 

and more importantly... our entire conduct around the WOT has to change... the implications of such a thing are very very bad... This is today, what tomorrow? Open rebellion? ...and shame on those who attack their own people in the name of Islam... whatever happened to restrain, patience, being just even when others wrong you?? Is nt that the teachings of Islam?

and in all of this the fools have weakened Pakistan and strengthened our enemies.... 

I would still not let go of the Americans so easily... I would go after those who are monitoring the Americans as well... 

and if our military does not learn from this experience then they should fear the day when ordinary people start celebrating events like this to see their own Army humiliated... This will happen I warn you all until we separate ourselves from the parasite called America...


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## T-Faz

umairp said:


> you do have proof of "extremists within the ranks" part, right?


 


> &#8220;Security agencies have been suggesting such measures from time to time in the past in view of the growing terrorism. *It has happened in the past that junior officials of the Pakistan Air Force got one-year-long leave on the pretext of accompanying the preaching groups, but when they were later arrested, it transpired that they had in fact been training with different militant groups,&#8221;* a senior security officer told The News on condition of anonymity.



Tableeghi Jamaats to be banned from Cantts, defence areas



> *&#8220;They are definitely some people suspected of involvement from within*, but we&#8217;re still investigating exactly who was behind it,&#8221; he said.
> 
> &#8220;From a janitor to an officer at the base, everyone is a suspect at this point,&#8221; he said.
> 
> *He said that previously there have been cases when clerics of local mosques at naval premises were found to be involved in &#8216;anti-state&#8217; activities.*



Navy officers suspect inside job in PNS Mehran &#8211; The Express Tribune



> *Deputy Chief of Air Staff for Operations Air Vice Marshal Khalid Chaudhry as saying that the airmen, most of whom came from rural villages, were being radicalised by extremist clerics.
> 
> The cable quotes Chaudhry as saying, &#8220;You can&#8217;t imagine what a hard time we have trying to get them to trim their beards.&#8221;*



US fears:

Keep living in denial.


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## hembo

*Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack *
Umar Cheema
Thursday, May 26, 2011 

ISLAMABAD: A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud&#8217;s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.

He had also warned that oil depots and power grid stations were also on the hit list of the militants. An official privy to the details said the marine commando who was picked up following his involvement in suspicious activities, had informed about the plan of attack on PNS Mehran. He also predicted attacks on other naval installations. 

No serious measures were taken to avert attack on this naval base. Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Directorate of Public Relations offered no comment when contacted for its version.According to the official source, the arrested individual belongs to South Waziristan agency and is of Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, and Hakimullah Mehsud who have rocked Pakistan through bombing and attacks on strategically important posts. 

Incidentally, the PNS Mehran attack has also been claimed by TTP to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda founder. 

Besides attack on the PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was also available on the impending attack on GHQ six months before it was carried out but the army sat over the info. 

The negligence on part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged the militants who have named the intelligence agencies as &#8220;sheep&#8221;. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as &#8216;goats&#8217; by the militants, according to the communication record obtained through a USB flash drive and deciphered by the experts. The flash drive was recovered from the driver of an explosive-laden truck intercepted in Dera Ghazi Khan in April 2009, exactly six months before the GHQ attack.

The flash drive carried instructions for TTP affiliates in Punjab and elsewhere. While it advised the militants in Southern Punjab to go into hiding amid reports of possible crackdown, the flash drive also contained a blue print of attack on GHQ. It used the coded language of &#8216;sheep&#8217; and &#8216;goats&#8217;. Upon deciphering these code words, it was found out that intelligence sleuths were dubbed as sheep and the armed forces personnel as goats.


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## nwmalik

it is time when instead of defence of our assets we should go on the offensive. Targets should be identified and taken out.
In the last 10 years we donot seem to have done much offensive action


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## Markus

nwmalik said:


> it is time when instead of defence of our assets we should go on the offensive. *Targets should be identified and taken out.*
> In the last 10 years we donot seem to have done much offensive action


 
On your West OR on your East ?


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## Comet

T-Faz said:


> Tableeghi Jamaats to be banned from Cantts, defence areas
> 
> 
> 
> Navy officers suspect inside job in PNS Mehran &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> 
> 
> US fears:
> 
> Keep living in denial.


 
That is your proof?


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## T-Faz

umairp said:


> That is your proof?


 
No, the tooth fairy told me that it was the Zionist Hinjews trained by aliens from outer space.

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## DV RULES

fatman17 said:


> *PN Blinded until December 2012.*
> 
> LAHORE: The Pakistan Navy stands partially blinded till December this year after the destruction of two Orions (P-3C) at the PNS Mehran base in Karachi on Sunday night, The News has learnt.
> 
> Sources in the Pakistan Navy revealed the defenders of seas&#8217; capability to counter any threat from the sea had virtually come down to around 20 percent for the time being with three old Orions stationed in the US for routine repairs, check-up and upgrade. The Navy now has one Orion, a Fokker (upgraded with the required gadget for surveillance) and a Gulfstream jet (upgraded for the purpose). These three stations are not enough to guard the maritime frontiers of the country. The first of the three Orions sent for maintenance is expected to return in December this year. The second and the third Orion are expected to resume service in June and December next year.
> 
> With its 120 nautical-mile (222.24 km) radar and diverse detect and destroy capability, this $36 million aircraft is considered the backbone of Pakistan Navy. Apart from diverse surveillance capability, this aircraft has a broader envelope with the prowess to search and destroy all sea targets in its combat radius (18 hours non-stop flight with an onboard radar, which can detect the target at 360 degrees up to 222.24 kms) with its payload of depth chargers, Harpoon Missiles and Mak-46 torpedoes. In addition to this, these aircraft also assist in indirect or alternate attacks from other sea and air platforms with the help of its sophisticated target detection capability, which helps in searching and locking multiple targets in the sea as well as in the air.


 
Fatman17

What you think Pakistan can get 3 or required P-3c on emergency bases till December 2012 from countries using P-3C? While Japan has more than 80 P-3C. Or Pakistan can lease them from USA on urgent bases?


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## DV RULES

T-Faz said:


> It wasn't the Americans as you are trying to hint here, there is no point in speculating and blaming others without any proof what so ever.
> 
> The Americans and other foreigners are kept under constant surveillance.
> 
> It was the extremists within the ranks who did it, that should be clear to all and one.


 
In simple you want treatment of patient
but we need to kill disease.


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## Devil Soul

Attackers were in contact with commander
Updated 45 minutes ago
KARACHI: The PNS Mehran attackers who stormed the naval air base Sunday night were in contact with their commander via high-tech wireless system, Geo News correspondent Afzal Nadeem Dogar reported.

An inquiry committee, headed by Rear Admiral Tehsinullah Khan, was investigating the terrorist attack. It included representatives from Pakistan Air Force, police, naval intelligence and Rangers.

*After reports of some inside help, scope of the probe has been widened and all personnel of Pakistan Navy deployed at the base have been included in the investigations.*
Attackers were in contact with commander

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## T-Faz

Devil Soul said:


> Attackers were in contact with commander
> 
> Updated 45 minutes ago
> 
> KARACHI: The PNS Mehran attackers who stormed the naval air base Sunday night were in contact with their commander via high-tech wireless system, Geo News correspondent Afzal Nadeem Dogar reported.
> 
> An inquiry committee, headed by Rear Admiral Tehsinullah Khan, was investigating the terrorist attack. It included representatives from Pakistan Air Force, police, naval intelligence and Rangers.
> 
> *After reports of some inside help, scope of the probe has been widened and all personnel of Pakistan Navy deployed at the base have been included in the investigations.*
> 
> Attackers were in contact with commander


 
Here we go, inside job all the way.

Now where are all those theorists with their outwardly claims.

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## monitor

Devil Soul said:


> Attackers were in contact with commander
> Updated 45 minutes ago
> KARACHI: The PNS Mehran attackers who stormed the naval air base Sunday night were in contact with their commander via high-tech wireless system, Geo News correspondent Afzal Nadeem Dogar reported.
> 
> An inquiry committee, headed by Rear Admiral Tehsinullah Khan, was investigating the terrorist attack. It included representatives from Pakistan Air Force, police, naval intelligence and Rangers.
> 
> *After reports of some inside help, scope of the probe has been widened and all personnel of Pakistan Navy deployed at the base have been included in the investigations.*
> Attackers were in contact with commander


 
so what the benefit they expect by helping this terrorist ? it will be little cruel but yet should we consider that they thought by allowing it the attention from the bin laden demise in Pakistan will fade away and the world will realized that Pakistan it self is in the target of extremist, not a breeding ground for extremism ?


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## DV RULES

T-Faz said:


> Here we go, inside job all the way.
> 
> Now where are those theorists with their outwardly claims.


 

T-FAZ

Look, at this moment it is obvious for you that without inside help this couldn't be possible..... yes? Ok, in an another news at was written that maps of location were found (no specification that they were electronic, satellite imagery maps, hybrid, plan or etc) from terrorists so we have now two theories,
1. Inside map or detail provider.
2. Satellite based maps. 

So someone provided whole setup with complete details and someone supported them from extrimists and there is someone who stands behind these extremists so why so quickly jumped over conclusion?
Why P-3 ORION are attacked?
Why they want to attack Chinese or Americans there?
If we assume that they were extremists then according to plannings they usually adopt, why they concentrated on hangers rather than attack in museum (at that moment there were lot of visitors in museum)?
So these are facts which forced to think that this attack was a very very sophisticated act against strategic installations in mask of TTP or AL-Q.
We are not blaming without any prove but we must not to ignore all these points & end face of this rope has to be taken out from bag.
So more surprising facts will be came along investigation is continued.


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## Aamir Hussain

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Well then these extremists or whatever you call them have to be found and punished...
> 
> and more importantly... our entire conduct around the WOT has to change... the implications of such a thing are very very bad... This is today, what tomorrow? Open rebellion? ...and shame on those who attack their own people in the name of Islam... whatever happened to restrain, patience, being just even when others wrong you?? Is nt that the teachings of Islam?
> 
> and in all of this the fools have weakened Pakistan and strengthened our enemies....
> 
> I would still not let go of the Americans so easily... I would go after those who are monitoring the Americans as well...
> 
> and if our military does not learn from this experience then they should fear the day when ordinary people start celebrating events like this to see their own Army humiliated... This will happen I warn you all until we separate ourselves from the parasite called America...


 
MBQ:

And who will monitor those who are monitoring the Americans???? When in doubt check the motive. Who benefits from this --- certainly not the Americans (we would like to wish otherwise). They already are beyond the P3C stage with their Nuclear capable Hunter killer subs and electronic counter measures developed to counter such type of patrol aircrafts. 

BTW I sense a change in your stance these days after the Mehran incident or am I mistaken?


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## hembo

Guys, how credible is this piece:



hembo said:


> *Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack *
> Umar Cheema
> Thursday, May 26, 2011
> 
> ISLAMABAD: A navy commando of Hakimulah Mehsud&#8217;s tribe posted at the PNS Mehran, who was arrested in January this year for his links with the Taliban and al-Qaeda affiliates, had then disclosed about the impending attack on the naval base.
> 
> He had also warned that oil depots and power grid stations were also on the hit list of the militants. An official privy to the details said the marine commando who was picked up following his involvement in suspicious activities, had informed about the plan of attack on PNS Mehran. He also predicted attacks on other naval installations.
> 
> No serious measures were taken to avert attack on this naval base. Pakistan Navy&#8217;s Directorate of Public Relations offered no comment when contacted for its version.According to the official source, the arrested individual belongs to South Waziristan agency and is of Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain, and Hakimullah Mehsud who have rocked Pakistan through bombing and attacks on strategically important posts.
> 
> Incidentally, the PNS Mehran attack has also been claimed by TTP to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, the al-Qaeda founder.
> 
> Besides attack on the PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was also available on the impending attack on GHQ six months before it was carried out but the army sat over the info.
> 
> The negligence on part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged the militants who have named the intelligence agencies as &#8220;sheep&#8221;. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as &#8216;goats&#8217; by the militants, according to the communication record obtained through a USB flash drive and deciphered by the experts. The flash drive was recovered from the driver of an explosive-laden truck intercepted in Dera Ghazi Khan in April 2009, exactly six months before the GHQ attack.
> 
> The flash drive carried instructions for TTP affiliates in Punjab and elsewhere. While it advised the militants in Southern Punjab to go into hiding amid reports of possible crackdown, the flash drive also contained a blue print of attack on GHQ. It used the coded language of &#8216;sheep&#8217; and &#8216;goats&#8217;. Upon deciphering these code words, it was found out that intelligence sleuths were dubbed as sheep and the armed forces personnel as goats.


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## iPhone

T-Faz said:


> Here we go, inside job all the way.
> 
> Now where are all those theorists with their outwardly claims.



I don't think its anything to be happy about. The way you just jumped out of your seat in celebration. Show some maturity, moderator. This isn't a competition between team anti army vs. pro army. This is about Pakistan.

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## Comet

T-Faz said:


> No, the tooth fairy told me that it was the Zionist Hinjews trained by aliens from outer space.


 
ok.

On a serious note: I need to know the the involvement of Extremists (from within) in the Mehran Base attack.


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## T-Faz

iPhone said:


> I don't think its anything to be happy about. The way you just jumped out of your seat in celebration. Show some maturity, moderator. This isn't a competition between team anti army vs. pro army. This is about Pakistan.


 
How did you see me jump put of my seat.

Is it about Pakistan?

Because when people are trying to blame everyone under the sun apart from the menace that lurks within, I get a feeling that people are not serious about tackling this problem.

I am not happy, I want it to end and the first step is to recognize the problem

Its not about competition, its about getting it right for the nation to succeed.

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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

The only real goal it wold appear would be to reduce Pakistan's water surveillance and allow 4-5 terrorist to reach india again 

Terrorist are now aiming at Army/Navy/Airforce to take advantage of the Geronimo mission and its fall out and some how try to get Pakistan into war


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## RAZA SAHI

Yeh koun log haain ? Do we recognize them ? Do we know where all these people are from ? Is not the pattern of their violent acts clear by now ?

Besides the above there are many others whose names would just fill up the entire page

Bhai yeh tu woh log hain ju Public kay samany hain the military has cpatured a lot many more and by now we KNOW who these people are where they are some from! 

We are lying to ourselves for God knows what reason 
@PAKDEFENDER

do you think lying to ourselvs is going to help us. upon seeing a cat the pigeon closes his eyes, but it never helps.
if the judjes is in civil courts are not competent or are not willing to prosecute these scums out of fear or whatever.then the parliament should pass a resolution or through an execuitive order the responsibility to hold & prosecute these sickos should be given to the army, that to me is the most appropriate & civilized thing to do. getting rid of these scums through extra judicial ways is an easy option & may appaeal to some people, but this only goes to romanticise the whole thing, where a terrorist is turned into an outlaw. the media does it's bit by showing this scum as a victim of the state.
above all i believe that the state should always hold the moral high ground.


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## Chogy

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> *The only real goal* it wold appear would be to reduce Pakistan's water surveillance and allow 4-5 terrorist to reach india again
> 
> Terrorist are now aiming at Army/Navy/Airforce to take advantage of the Geronimo mission and its fall out and some how try to get Pakistan into war



Disagree... one of the goals with any operation of this sort is to force a sense of vulnerability. "We can hit you anywhere, any time." * The symbolism of such an attack far outweighs the material benefits.*

9-11 was 100% symbolic. Did the terrorists think the U.S. would grind to a halt? That we'd cease to exist? Of course not.

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## Roybot

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> The only real goal it wold appear would be to reduce Pakistan's water surveillance and allow 4-5 terrorist to reach india again
> 
> Terrorist are now aiming at Army/Navy/Airforce to take advantage of the Geronimo mission and its fall out and some how try to get Pakistan into war



Yeah cause India is banking on Pakistani surveillance eh?


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## humanfirst

Terrorists must have realised that attacking targets of high value-like p3C orions are more effective in their struggle than killing random people-which anyone with a gun can do.I think that was the motive for targeting orions-which was the most valuable thing in that air base.btw why is govt not releasing cctv footages?


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## Mav3rick

fatman17 said:


> watching too many 'bourne' movies are ya! - accept the fact that the armed forces have a 'jahadi' problem which needs to be eliminated asap!


 
So that was your intelligent response to my post? Charming!


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## Mav3rick

humanfirst said:


> Terrorists must have realised that attacking targets of high value-like p3C orions are more effective in their struggle than killing random people-which anyone with a gun can do.I think that was the motive for targeting orions-which was the most valuable thing in that air base.btw why is govt not releasing cctv footages?


 
Terrorists would consider attack helicopters more of a threat then PC3 Orions, I believe they never bothered to destroy any helicopters parked close to the PC3 Orions. They were after specific targets.


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## Hammy007

if it was an inside help, it would have been possible due to money rather than religious reasons


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## Mav3rick

T-Faz said:


> Those who use Islam for political purposes and to a lesser extent personal gains.
> 
> It negates the image of Islam and is counter productive.


 
Well, then what do you call people who use Christianity/Judaism etc. for political or personal gains?


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## Hammy007

there are some serious questions to be answered

why they attacked the plane and not people

how they brought so much ammo esp high teh ammo with them

why uzbeks attacked the base

where they did get their training

if it was an inside job, why he leaked out info, and who was he working for??

why would any sane taliban cover a long distance to target some navy planes, when those talibs can attack military bases in KP
were the americans the insiders who helped the outsiders

why would a military guy just want the destruction of pakistan security just for 'jihad' reasons, i dont see any sanity at all

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## Tiki Tam Tam

> why would a military guy just want the destruction of pakistan security just for 'jihad' reasons, i dont see any sanity at all



Same reason as 

Junior Army, PAF officers involved in Assisination Bid
Says accused will soon be tried in military court;
Rules out involvement of senior officials

By Fahd Hussain, GEO News
Link


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Mav3rick said:


> Terrorists would consider attack helicopters more of a threat then PC3 Orions, I believe they never bothered to destroy any helicopters parked close to the PC3 Orions. They were after specific targets.



AH were there?



> Five terrorists were arrested Moment by moment development of Mehran Operation
> 
> KARACHI: Five terrorists were arrested during the operation against them at PNS Mehran Naval Aviation Base and due to very reason the case was registered against 12 persons. Apprehended terrorists were shifted to Islamabad after the completion of operation, where three of them are under treatment at a military hospital.
> 
> This was revealed by highly reliable sources to Online. *The source said that when the terrorists entered PNS Mehran from the check post No.9 located between PAF Air Base and Naval Air Base, it was empty so they managed to enter the base.*
> 
> Soon after their entrance, the terrorists had a clash with Rapid Response Force of Pak Navy, but the terrorist either killed the naval personnel or forced them to escape in first three minutes. *The sources said that during the first 45 minutes, the terrorists destroyed P3C Orion aircrafts, whereas Naval Marine reached there within 50 minutes.*
> 
> The sources said that within f*ew minutes of attack, police and rangers reached there but the naval personnel did not allow them to go beyond the guardroom. After six hours of the attack, 1 Frontier Force also reached the base from Malir Cantt Karachi but their offer was also rejected by the navy.*
> 
> *After that the intelligence officials told the high command that situation has become out of control for the naval commandos then the Special Commandos of Pak Army Al-Zarar company reached Karachi through special plane from Islamabad and entered PNA Mehran at 6.10 am in the morning via PAF base however naval commandos held the charge of operation in their hands.
> *
> 
> The sources said that at 11:30 am in the morning the Naval Commandos gave the signal of completing the operation and h*igh-ups of Navy reached there to inspect the wreckage of ruined aircraft, but at that time the terrorists which were hiding in jungle behind the hanger opened firing due to which three people were killed and several injured.*
> 
> The sources claimed that firing was carried out on the naval commandos form 17 different points which was continued till 3:30 at night, *which showed that the number of terrorists were more than the statement of Federal Interior Minister and even written in the police report.
> *
> 
> After 3:30 in the night, attack was again taken place from two points by the two terrorists who were hiding in the jungle behind the naval complex. At last they detonated themselves by explosive material.
> 
> When this scribe tried to contact spokesman of Pak Navy Sulman Ali , his cellular phone was off. When contacted to his office, they told for speaking to Sulman. They also told that his mobile is off due to the reason that he was busy in some meeting.
> 
> ONLINE - International News Network


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## T-Faz

Mav3rick said:


> Well, then what do you call people who use Christianity/Judaism etc. for political or personal gains?


 
Political Christianity was the reason why Europe fell into the dark ages, there might not be a term for it but its outcome is surely remembered as nothing less than abject negation to the society, thankfully its not as popular as it once was.

As for political Judaism, it too causes great challenges and problems for the Jews, I am sure you know that the Hasidic Jews are always yapping on about their religion much to the displeasure of others. But they too do not have a lot of power over anything and things are still better.


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## jha

*Here you go..The real story comes out..*..Worth Reading ..

*Al-Qaeda had warned of Pakistan strike *



> *Al-Qaeda carried out the brazen attack on PNS Mehran naval air station in Karachi on May 22 after talks failed between the navy and al-Qaeda over the release of naval officials arrested on suspicion of al-Qaeda links, an Asia Times Online investigation reveals. *





> An official statement placed the number of militants at six, with four killed and two escaping. Unofficial sources, though, claim there were 10 militants with six getting free. Asia Times Online contacts confirm that the attackers were from Ilyas Kashmiri's 313 Brigade, the operational arm of al-Qaeda.
> 
> Three attacks on navy buses in which at least nine people were killed last month were warning shots for navy officials to accept al-Qaeda's demands over the detained suspects.





> *The deeper underlying motive, though, was a reaction to massive internal crackdowns on al-Qaeda affiliates within the navy. *


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## jha




----------



## jha

> He said his assailant not only limited to tribal areas and Pakistan are spread across the world. *He said that now Pakistan Taliban have become so strong that even if the U.S. left Afghanistan, they still operating in Pakistan and Pakistan will continue fighting until Islamic law enforcement will continue.*



?BBC Urdu? - ????????? - ?&#8217;?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?????????? ???? ????? ??&#8216;?


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## Hammy007

jha said:


> *Here you go..The real story comes out..*..Worth Reading ..
> 
> *Al-Qaeda had warned of Pakistan strike *


 
but wasnt it osama retaliatory attack as lamied by taliban


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## Hulk

neutral link please


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## jha

Hammy007 said:


> but wasnt it osama retaliatory attack as lamied by taliban


 
Yes sir..Something similar..Just have a go at the piece and the real story will unfold..


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## mirage 5000

DEAR PAKISTAN WAKE UP . its time we attack on FATA as its our enemy country and capture it . 90% attacks come from there and its 5%of Pakistan .its really very very serious that we lose 95% for this 5% of lawless jungle. the day when we agree to make them Pakistani was wore day in our history . they are living in 600BC not in 2011 . if i have power i will cut this censer in one day and allow us to send B-52 bombers to wipe them from earth. look Pakistan lose 35000 men women child's for these brainless bastards. 

as example if doctor say to me cut your hand or you will die i will cut my hand same time. tribes are cancer .they dont respect Pakistan Pakistani law Pakistani constitution Pakistani police army navy air force. wake up Pakistan tribes was our nuke but now they are nuke of USA INDIA AFGHANS against Pakistan . fence border mine border close all supply and good to Afghanistan and fata if you want save Pakistan. may god bless Pakistan and save from enemy inside and outside .


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## Hammy007

jha said:


> Yes sir..Something similar..Just have a go at the piece and the real story will unfold..


 
NO sir, i had gone through the article, explain to be how does the death of osama connect the arrest of some imaginative arrested naval alquaeda people jailed in pns mehran??, btw i didnt know that pns mehran which is located in the heart if the city very close to civilians was used as a jail centre for the criminals?? 

my second question is, dont you think its a rambo type story just to release some alquaeda terrorists they planned all of this, i mean where did the osama security go??, he must have been the top priority for the alquaedians, ohh i know, pakistani army was protecting him

well i am really very confused here sir..

also the contact of the terrorists with the commander of pns mehran doesnt match well with your asia news story either


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## Aamir Hussain

T-Faz said:


> Navy officers suspect inside job in PNS Mehran &#8211; The Express Tribune
> 
> *KARACHI: Officials from Pakistan Navy suspect the May 22 naval airbase attack would not have been possible without inside help.*
> 
> They, however, deny that the change in command at the PNS Mehran has anything to do with the attack and termed the transfer orders a &#8216;routine&#8217; matter.
> 
> *Inside job*
> 
> When the attackers cut the barbed wire on the perimeter wall at the end of the Pakistan Air Force&#8217;s (PAF) Faisal base which is adjacent to the PNS Mehran, they had two options.
> 
> Instead of the naval base, they could have gone after the assets and personnel of the air force, but they chose not to, even though there were at least four American-made C-130 cargo planes on the PAF side.
> 
> *&#8220;The attackers knew that the navy&#8217;s prized assets such as the Orion aircraft and the Chinese and American personnel were present on our base and they came specifically after them,&#8221; a senior navy officer said, admitting that no one on the outside could have known about it.
> 
> He said the attackers knew the base &#8220;inside out&#8221; and were well aware of the points where they would have &#8220;an advantage over the security forces&#8221; who would engage them.*
> 
> He pointed out that three of the Special Service Group commandos, who were sent in to subdue the attackers, saying this was &#8220;no easy feat&#8221;.
> 
> The navy officials suspects the reconnaissance prior to the attack was carried out not only by someone taking visual footage of the base from the nearby Karsaz bridge, but also by someone from inside the sprawling base where, more than 500 personnel are deployed at any given time.
> 
> However, they denied that the attackers were provided weapons by some insider and insisted that the terrorists were equipped with their own Russian-made machine guns, grenades and rocket launchers.
> 
> &#8220;They are definitely some people suspected of involvement from within, but we&#8217;re still investigating exactly who was behind it,&#8221; he said.
> 
> &#8220;From a janitor to an officer at the base, everyone is a suspect at this point,&#8221; he said.
> 
> *He said that previously there have been cases when clerics of local mosques at naval premises were found to be involved in &#8216;anti-state&#8217; activities.*
> 
> While the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan have claimed responsibility for the attack, navy officials say that they are not ruling out the possibility of a &#8220;foreign country&#8217;s intelligence agency&#8217;s involvement in the incident&#8221;.
> 
> Rear-Admiral Tehseenullah Khan, who was the former director-general of the Maritime Security Agency, has been appointed as the head of the team probing the case.
> 
> *Uzbek attackers?*
> 
> Navy officials insist the attackers were &#8220;not Pakistanis, but foreigners&#8221;.
> 
> &#8220;When I saw the body, I immediately knew that the young man was (an) Uzbek,&#8221; a navy official said. He provided no forensic evidence to support his assertion.
> 
> However, doctors who conducted the autopsy on the bodies of the four terrorists contradicted the navy&#8217;s asertion and said they looked like &#8220;any other young Pakistani men&#8221; from northern areas.
> 
> Interestingly, the autopsy report says the terrorists were &#8220;Muslim males between the ages of 22 and 26&#8221;. When asked how they determined the religious leanings of the terrorists, the doctor said the autopsy revealed they were circumcised.
> 
> Meanwhile, security agencies on Wednesday took a new set of samples for DNA testing from the bodies of the four terrorists being kept at an Edhi morgue.
> 
> *Change of command*
> 
> Base commander Raja Tahir has been replaced by Commodore Khalid Pervez. Although the announcement of the change in command of the PNS Mehran has been made only two days after the attack, Pakistan Navy officials insist it is nothing out of the ordinary.
> 
> &#8220;There&#8217;s no truth that Tahir is being replaced as punishment since his replacement orders had been issued four months age and Commodore Pervez has been on the base for more than a week,&#8221; a navy official said.
> 
> A navy official says that even though they were being blamed for a massive security lapse, the fact is that the breach occurred on the side of the wall that comes under the air force&#8217;s jurisdiction.
> 
> &#8220;They have their own cameras and watchtowers there and failed to spot the attackers. So why blame us,&#8221; the official said. He added that there was no question about heads being rolled for the incident.
> 
> *Rehman Malik*
> 
> Navy officials are extremely upset with Rehman Malik&#8217;s statement that some attackers might have escaped the base and say their chief, Admiral Noman Bashir, had no alternative but to agree with the federal minister&#8217;s statement.
> 
> They also say it was peculiar that Malik came on air at 10:43pm on Sunday, claiming that around 10 to 15 attackers had not only infiltrated the PNS Mehran base, but also taken control.
> 
> &#8220;The attack began at 10:37pm. How could he claim to know all that when even we at the control room did not know the exact position,&#8221; they added. A navy officer admitted it was a mistake on their part for lodging an FIR which said there were more than 10 attackers.


 
There were six C-130's there at the time of the attack including the PM's Airbus for routine check. The attackers just had to cross the runway near gate 9 to get at them but they did not and also id not touch any of the other a/c parked on the taramac which were sitting ducks and coul have been easily targeted during the 16 hour seige. 

This indicates a possible attempt at a seaborne escape of Highl Level Cadre of AL-Qadea or an attempt to launch a seaborne raid into India along the lines of Mumbai. 

The psychological advantage gained from such an operation (the Mehran Rai) would have magnified if the PM plane would have been hit as well. 

But then again these are my "Theories."


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## indushek

Aamir Hussain said:


> There were six C-130's there at the time of the attack including the PM's Airbus for routine check. The attackers just had to cross the runway near gate 9 to get at them but they did not and also id not touch any of the other a/c parked on the taramac which were sitting ducks and coul have been easily targeted during the 16 hour seige.
> 
> This indicates a possible attempt at a seaborne escape of Highl Level Cadre of AL-Qadea or an attempt to launch a seaborne raid into India along the lines of Mumbai.
> 
> The psychological advantage gained from such an operation (the Mehran Rai) would have magnified if the PM plane would have been hit as well.
> 
> But then again these are my "Theories."


 
Very probable sir but am unable to contemplate one thing here, if so they should also be knowing that these a/c will be replaced eventually and India will increase its maritime patrol further than what it is now as the think tanks on our end would have noticed this wouldn't they?? Then the only thing that remains is a psychological advantage that they got out of this saying we can strike anywhere anything. Am i wrong here please let me know.


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## Aamir Hussain

mirage 5000 said:


> DEAR PAKISTAN WAKE UP . its time we attack on FATA as its our enemy country and capture it . 90% attacks come from there and its 5%of Pakistan .its really very very serious that we lose 95% for this 5% of lawless jungle. the day when we agree to make them Pakistani was wore day in our history . they are living in 600BC not in 2011 . if i have power i will cut this censer in one day and allow us to send B-52 bombers to wipe them from earth. look Pakistan lose 35000 men women child's for these brainless bastards.
> 
> as example if doctor say to me cut your hand or you will die i will cut my hand same time. tribes are cancer .they dont respect Pakistan Pakistani law Pakistani constitution Pakistani police army navy air force. wake up Pakistan tribes was our nuke but now they are nuke of USA INDIA AFGHANS against Pakistan . fence border mine border close all supply and good to Afghanistan and fata if you want save Pakistan. may god bless Pakistan and save from enemy inside and outside .


 
You are sadly mistaken my friend -- it is not just FATA now -- we have been sitting on our arses too long --- now the problem is no longer confined to FATA but has spilled over to Southern Punjab (My sources in intellegence agencies have told me a number of times that the SP elements in Taliban are more die hard fanatics as compared to the FATA cadre -- and in some instances, the FATA cadre was afraid of the SP groups residing amongst them) and urban Pakistan. 

The need of the hour is to shut down their fundings first, from within Pakistan ( You will be surprised how vast and deep this funding network is in the Urban Areas) and from our Arab "Bretheren." Wrap up their urban training bases, sancturies, support centers (BTW the local police and CID has this info. even before the ISI). Than launch an all out assualt on suspected trainnig and C3 sites in FATA. But before we do that, enact Anti Terror laws so that these fanatics are not relased on bail or kept in jails where they can be sprung out any time soon.

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## greatf

Mr. Xeric you mentioned very clearly some of bad people in our society who being civillian are offering namaz-e-janaza and other things to creat sympathy with so called Jihadis and Shaheeds. How about those who are serving in Military Institutions and still have strong potential towards them..??? army being an institution is our Pride Honor and when somebody hit out pride and honor we have the right to say (whether u like it or not) So question is not that how many enemies we are fighting with.. WE ARE ONLY FIGHTING WITH ONE ENEMY (OURSELVES) Hm mein jo shidat pasand mojood hain unka ilaj kaisay karna hai whether civilians or military personnel...
SSG Naval Commando was arrested in januray 2011 he was from the Mehsood Family...during investigation he told authorities about the plan of PNS Mehran Attack... Kia keya Gaya.. ab tak..? Nothing...
So we must leave criticizing others, As we are no more superiors we have been challanged in the same way as other civilian institutions had....


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## Aamir Hussain

indushek said:


> Very probable sir but am unable to contemplate one thing here, if so they should also be knowing that these a/c will be replaced eventually and India will increase its maritime patrol further than what it is now as the think tanks on our end would have noticed this wouldn't they?? Then the only thing that remains is a psychological advantage that they got out of this saying we can strike anywhere anything. Am i wrong here please let me know.


 
If my "Theory" is correct than there is a time lag between replacement planes available to Pakistan and probable readiness timelines for such a raid. 

Mind you, India might be happy with all of this, overtly but if there is any sense prevailing on the other side of the border, they would be deeply worried on these and other developments in Pakistan that can affect them directly. 

Why I am say what I am saying -- the purpose of any guerrilla type of war or insurgency is not to fight pitched battle with regular army troops but to relentlessly downgrade the will to put up resistance by escalating the targets list from front line units to military families, rear areas, key political or religious figures, and sensational symbolic hits like GHQ, PNS Mehran etc


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## @nline

*Its an India, Israel & USA join attack.
Because these 3 countries fully supporting Taliban against &#8364;&#8364;&#8364;, £££, $$$ just to destabilize Pakistan as much as they can.*


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## Aamir Hussain

The helos at the PN base are not ground attack helos but primarily dedicated to ASW and Surface attack (Seakings -- four of them were there at the time). However, there were two to three utility helos of Army Aviation across the runway from PN Mehran.


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## Zeeshan360

@nline said:


> *Its an India, Israel & USA join attack.
> Because these 3 countries fully supporting Taliban against , £££, $$$ just to destabilize Pakistan as much as they can.*


 
What is u r Army and ISI doing ??
Spending that $$$ ??


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## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

Aamir Hussain said:


> You are sadly mistaken my friend -- it is not just FATA now -- we have been sitting on our arses too long --- now the problem is no longer confined to FATA but has spilled over to Southern Punjab (My sources in intellegence agencies have told me a number of times that the SP elements in Taliban are more die hard fanatics as compared to the FATA cadre -- and in some instances, the FATA cadre was afraid of the SP groups residing amongst them) and urban Pakistan.
> 
> The need of the hour is to shut down their fundings first, from within Pakistan ( You will be surprised how vast and deep this funding network is in the Urban Areas) and from our Arab "Bretheren." Wrap up their urban training bases, sancturies, support centers (BTW the local police and CID has this info. even before the ISI). Than launch an all out assualt on suspected trainnig and C3 sites in FATA. But before we do that, enact Anti Terror laws so that these fanatics are not relased on bail or kept in jails where they can be sprung out any time soon.


 
Aamir I think some of this funding (actually not some but substantial perhaps) is coming from our western border...


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## Dr. Strangelove

Zeeshan360 said:


> What is u r Army and ISI doing ??
> Spending that $$$ ??


our army and isi is doing there best but some people in our country cant understand it


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## Hammy007

ok, funding is coming from within pakistan, but where are the trainings coming from and why chose uzbeks??


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## ARCHON

Hammy007 said:


> ok, funding is coming from within pakistan, but where are the trainings coming from and *why chose uzbeks*??


 
They give discounts.


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## a. hussain

wasm95 said:


> our army and isi is doing there best but some people in our country cant understand it


 

Brother, if I may humbly enquire what are our agencies & armed forces doing ...... since independence?
Please grow up and look around yourself with open eyes because with eyes closed you may dream only [Which presently majority of us are doing- Such a pity]

If our forces were doing something then Pakistan would not be in such a mess and our size & shape of the map would not have shrunk since independence. Try to find the facts and not the fabricated tales of valor and sincerity news.

Thanks


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## S.M.R

Geo Breaking News:

One Suspect has been arrested from Faisalabad. His Name is Qari Qaiser, and associated with one of banned organization.


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## humanfirst

innocentboy said:


> Geo Breaking News:
> 
> One Suspect has been arrested from Faisalabad. His Name is Qari Qaiser, and associated with one of banned organization.


 
Which banned organisation?


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## President Camacho

innocentboy said:


> Geo Breaking News:
> 
> One Suspect has been arrested from Faisalabad. His Name is Qari Qaiser, and associated with one of banned organization.


 
Time to check his shoe for the footprints !!!


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## justanobserver

Patanjali said:


> Time to check his shoe for the footprints !!!


 
They should check if he's circumsized or not ! He could be a Bharti agent !


----------



## Aamir Hussain

Muhammad-Bin-Qasim said:


> Aamir I think some of this funding (actually not some but substantial perhaps) is coming from our western border...


 
MBQ:

Are you talking about Iran?


----------



## S.M.R

humanfirst said:


> Which banned organisation?


 
Not LeT, at least.


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## Hammy007

here we go again blame game on some banned organisation, where the hell the banned pakistani organisation supply the uzbeks???


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## President Camacho

justanobserver said:


> They should check if he's circumsized or not ! He could be a Bharti agent !


 
Not needed, they already found the Indian footprints, only gotta find the shoe that matches.


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## S.M.R

R. Malik says Certain Countries are involved in terrorism in Pakistan.

He doenst have balls to name those countries.


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## xTra

Well anyone need a ball of steel to name Amrika.


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## T-Faz

*PNS Mehran attack: Suspect arrested in Faisalabad​*
FAISALABAD: Security forces on Friday arrested a suspect from Faisalabad who is believed to be involved in the PNS Mehran attack in Karachi.

*Express 24/7 correspondent Ejaz Hussain reported that the suspect, known as Qari Qaiser, was living in the Satiana area of Faisalabad and originally hailed from Dera Ghazi Khan. The suspect was reported to be running a Madrassah in DG Khan.*

Qaiser was traced with the help of a cell-phone that was being used by the terrorists.

Up to six militants, armed with rocket-propelled grenades, explosives and automatic rifles, had attacked the navy airbase in Karachi on May 22.

They managed to destroy two P-3C Orion aircraft, costing an estimated $36 million, which had only been delivered by the United States a year ago.

The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) had claimed the attack on the base, calling it revenge for the killing of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden.


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## Devil Soul

Express NEWS is saying that 4 people are arrested from Karachi & r being just questioned.. its no formal arrest ...


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## Tiki Tam Tam

> *Al-Qaeda had warned of Pakistan strike
> By Syed Saleem Shahzad *
> 
> 
> SLAMABAD - Al-Qaeda carried out the brazen attack on PNS Mehran naval air station in Karachi on May 22 after talks failed between the navy and al-Qaeda over the release of naval officials arrested on suspicion of al-Qaeda links, an Asia Times Online investigation reveals.
> 
> Pakistani security forces battled for 15 hours to clear the naval base after it had been stormed by a handful of well-armed militants.
> 
> At least 10 people were killed and two United States-made P3-C
> 
> 
> Orion surveillance and anti-submarine aircraft worth US$36 million each were destroyed before some of the attackers escaped through a cordon of thousands of armed forces.
> 
> An official statement placed the number of militants at six, with four killed and two escaping. Unofficial sources, though, claim there were 10 militants with six getting free. Asia Times Online contacts confirm that the attackers were from Ilyas Kashmiri's 313 Brigade, the operational arm of al-Qaeda.
> 
> Three attacks on navy buses in which at least nine people were killed last month were warning shots for navy officials to accept al-Qaeda's demands over the detained suspects.
> 
> The May 2 killing in Pakistan of Osama bin Laden spurred al-Qaeda groups into developing a consensus for the attack in Karachi, in part as revenge for the death of their leader and also to deal a blow to Pakistan's surveillance capacity against the Indian navy.
> 
> The deeper underlying motive, though, was a reaction to massive internal crackdowns on al-Qaeda affiliates within the navy.
> 
> Volcano of militancy'
> Several weeks ago, naval intelligence traced an al-Qaeda cell operating inside several navy bases in Karachi, the country's largest city and key port.
> 
> "Islamic sentiments are common in the armed forces," a senior navy official told Asia Times Online on the condition of anonymity as he is not authorized to speak to the media.
> 
> "We never felt threatened by that. All armed forces around the world, whether American, British or Indian, take some inspiration from religion to motivate their cadre against the enemy. Pakistan came into existence on the two-nation theory that Hindus and Muslims are two separate nations and therefore no one can separate Islam and Islamic sentiment from the armed forces of Pakistan," the official said.
> 
> "Nonetheless, we observed an uneasy grouping on different naval bases in Karachi. While nobody can obstruct armed forces personnel for rendering religious rituals or studying Islam, the grouping [we observed] was against the discipline of the armed forces. That was the beginning of an intelligence operation in the navy to check for unscrupulous activities."
> 
> The official explained the grouping was against the leadership of the armed forces and opposed to its nexus with the United States against Islamic militancy. When some messages were intercepted hinting at attacks on visiting American officials, intelligence had good reason to take action and after careful evaluation at least 10 people - mostly from the lower cadre - were arrested in a series of operations.
> 
> "That was the beginning of huge trouble," the official said.
> 
> Those arrested were held in a naval intelligence office behind the chief minister's residence in Karachi, but before proper interrogation could begin, the in-charge of the investigation received direct threats from militants who made it clear they knew where the men were being detained.
> 
> The detainees were promptly moved to a safer location, but the threats continued. Officials involved in the case believe the militants feared interrogation would lead to the arrest of more of their loyalists in the navy. The militants therefore made it clear that if those detained were not released, naval installations would be attacked.
> 
> It was clear the militants were receiving good inside information as they always knew where the suspects were being detained, indicating sizeable al-Qaeda infiltration within the navy's ranks. A senior-level naval conference was called at which an intelligence official insisted that the matter be handled with great care, otherwise the consequences could be disastrous. Everybody present agreed, and it was decided to open a line of communication with al-Qaeda.
> 
> Abdul Samad Mansoori, a former student union activist and now part of 313 brigade, who originally hailed from Karachi but now lives in the North Waziristan tribal area was approached and talks begun. Al-Qaeda demanded the immediate release of the officials without further interrogation. This was rejected.
> 
> The detainees were allowed to speak to their families and were well treated, but officials were desperate to interrogate them fully to get an idea of the strength of al-Qaeda's penetration. The militants were told that once interrogation was completed, the men would be discharged from the service and freed.
> 
> Al-Qaeda rejected these terms and expressed its displeasure with the attacks on the navy buses in April.
> 
> These incidents pointed to more than the one al-Qaeda cell intelligence had tracked in the navy. The fear now was that if the problem was not addressed, North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) supply lines could face a new threat. NATO convoys are routinely attacked once they begin the journey from Karachi to Afghanistan; now they could be at risk in Karachi port. Americans who often visit naval facilities in the city would also be in danger.
> 
> Therefore, another crackdown was conducted and more people were arrested. Those seized had different ethnic backgrounds. One naval commando came from South Waziristan's Mehsud tribe and was believed to have received direct instructions from Hakeemullah Mehsud, the chief of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (Pakistan Taliban). Others were from Punjab province and Karachi, the capital of Sindh province.
> 
> After Bin Laden was killed by American Navy Seals in Abbottabad, 60 kilometers north of Islamabad, militants decided the time was ripe for major action.
> 
> Within a week, insiders at PNS Mehran provided maps, pictures of different exit and entry routes taken in daylight and at night, the location of hangers and details of likely reaction from external security forces.
> 
> As a result, the militants were able to enter the heavily guarded facility where one group targeted the aircraft, a second group took on the first strike force and a third finally escaped with the others providing covering fire. Those who stayed behind were killed.
> 
> Next: Recruitment and training of militants
> 
> Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief and author of Inside al-Qaeda and the Taliban: Beyond Bin Laden and 9/11 published by Pluto Press, UK. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com



Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan


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## Tehmasib

[/IMG]


T-Faz said:


> Out goes the Amreeki agent theory and of the RAW involvement too because India would never back an attack on US and Chinese nationals through proxy.
> 
> If by any chance their involvement is revealed, the two powers of the world will pounce on them so India is out of the question too.

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## Tehmasib

On May 23, this year, six terrorists who were equipped with heavy weapons attacked Pakistan Navy&#8217;s airbase, PNS Mehran in Karachi. They also destroyed two P-3C Orion aircraft, detonating explosives at the naval base. Afterwards, an intense gunfight broke out between the attackers and the security forces including naval commandos. But after 16 hours, the PNS Mehran base was cleared from the terrorists. Spokesman Navy said that 10 security personnel were martyred in the operation, while four terrorists were killed, and two escaped. It is mentionable that unlike the past wars, being fought between two sovereign state actors, in the present era, non-state actors employ lethal weapons such as suicide attacks, bomb blasts, targeted killings and similar other tactics of guerilla warfare which can be more harmful in damaging the interest of a target-country. As part of the new warfare, these tactics are being employed by the foreign elements inside Pakistan. 

In this connection, Pakistan has become special target of the new warfare being waged by external powers such as the US, India and Israel through their secret agencies like CIA, RAW and Mossad which have also availed the services of foreigners and some Pakistani nationals in order to conduct subversive acts in Pakistan. In this regard, although terrorist events such as suicide attacks, bomb blasts and targeted killings have been conducted by these foreign elements intermittently in the last 10 years, yet such incidents have accelerated in the two years. In this respect, more than 30 people had been killed when an explosive loaded car exploded near the main gate of a sensitive agency in Faisalabad. According to reports, the occupants of the vehicle parked it near a barrier erected in front of the main gate of the office and left it. On March 9 this year, more than 35 people were killed when a suicide bomber blew himself up at funeral prayers in Peshawar. 

As regards Karachi, in the past few months, a fresh wave of violence sparked by the killings of several political activists has swept the city with the terror-events of targeted killings, burning of vehicles and firings between two groups. Especially, on April 28, 2011, a blast had hit a bus carrying Pakistani navy officials in Karachi, killing five people, while that blast occurred two days after two other navy buses were attacked in the city, killing four people. Similar wave of terrorism continues in other form in Balochistan, particularly targeting the Punjabis. If we witness the previous terrorist attacks, we can easily analyse that our foreign enemies have been applying various tactics of subversion inside Pakistan. In this context, in the past, massive explosion destroyed the Pearl Continental hotel in Peshawar, killing, more than 15 persons in a suicide attack. Sources said that the gunman, sitting in one car, first started firing at the security persons and then exploded their first vehicle to give a safe-passage to other truck which was carrying 500 kilograms of explosives and stormed into the heavily secured hotel.

It is notable that on October 15, 2009, at least 16 people including 12 personnel of the security forces had been martyred in foiling three separate terrorist attacks by killing 9 terrorists at FIA Building, Manawan Police Training Centre and Bedian Elite Police Training Centre in Lahore. Four days before that event, nine militants targeted the General Headquarters (GHQ) in Rawalpindi where in a successful operation of 18-hour, Pak army foiled a major tragedy by rescuing 39 hostages and killing eight terrorists. In the event, 12 soldiers, a Brigadier and a Lt. Colonel had also been martyred. In a similar type of terror-attack which had targeted the bus of Sri Lankan cricket team in Lahore on March 3, 2009 had killed 8 persons in wake of a continuous gunfire by the militants. Pakistani officials confirmed that &#8220;grenades and rocket launchers had been recovered&#8221; which were of foreign origin. Afterwards, official inquiry disclosed that RAW was behind that terror incident.

However, besides other previous suicide attacks, conducted in the Marriot Hotel at Islamabad, Rescue 15 building at Lahore which also damaged other buildings of the Lahore Capital City Police Office (CCPO) and Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) which was the main target, but could not be hit due to heavy firing by the security guards on the terrorists who came along with the vehicle and arms&#8212;were some of the other events of the same war against Pakistan. Nevertheless, the terror-incidents, especially at Naval Base in Karachi, at GHQ in Rawalpindi and in Lahore at FIA Building, Manawan Police Training Centre and Bedian Elite Police Training Centre which had involved gun battles between the terrorists and the security forces along with pattern of subversive acts through suicide attacks and bomb blasts which have also been intensified in the past few days&#8212;clearly show that secret CIA, RAW and Mossad have been waging a new style war against Pakistan, which also includes tactics of guerilla warfare&#8212;through their well-trained insurgents who could conduct attacks in major cities despite Pakistan&#8217;s successful military operations against the militants and the death of the renowned militant commanders.

While, a perennial wave of these attacks clearly proves that foreign intelligence agencies have modified their tactics of subversion in Pakistan. Apart from direct suicide events, militants, armed with hand grenades, machine guns and other latest weapons also come to help the explosive-laden vehicles so as to penetrate the security at the target points and to clear the way for the blast. Sometimes, exchange of fire takes place between the saboteurs and the security guards, and sometimes, purpose is directly to kill the security personnel. In this regard, in most of the terror-tragedies, huge quantity of explosives is also being used. Another technique of the foreign-trained terrorists is that they camouflage themselves by wearing the uniform of Pakistani security forces so as to deceive the security guards and to get inside the targeted point for conducting their assigned task. In 2009, U.N.&#8217;s World Food Program in Islamabad was attacked by a suicide bomber who was wearing an official uniform. Again, the militants who attacked the GHQ were also wearing army uniforms.

Notably, on January 27, 2011, in Lahore, an American national, David Raymond shot dead two Pakistani youths, while a third was crushed by the driver of a Parado jeep, who was called by him for help. David and persons, sitting in the jeep were also carrying weapons. Police arrested David Raymond and registered a case, while loaded weapons, a GPS satellite tracking device, photographs of Pakistan&#8217;s defence installations including tribal areas were also discovered from him. Pakistan&#8217;s sources and some American media indicated that David Raymond including his companions were agents of the American CIA and were on an anti-Pakistan mission. In fact, he is part of the illegal activities of the Blackwater whose employees entered Pakistan in the guise of diplomats.

It is of particular attention that a few days before the arrest of David, Pakistani security officials foiled an attempt by the Indian intelligence agency to enact a fake encounter for implicating Pakistan in incidents of cross border terrorism. The plan was unearthed when a suspect, working for the Indian RAW was apprehended at Sialkot border area, while attempting to cross over to India through the border security fence. Entrance points on the fence are locked and controlled by the Indian Border Security Force (BSF). The suspect has confessed to work as an Indian spy who was tasked to recruit agents from Pakistan to work for Indian intelligence. On March 2 this year, the cold-blooded murder of the Pakistan&#8217;s Federal Minister for Minorities Affairs, Shahbaz Bhatti distorted the image of the country abroad. It is another tactic of the foreign elements who wanted to show that religious minorities are not safe in Pakistan.

Particularly in the last three years, a number of times, arms and guns were also captured from Americans traveling in vehicles in various cities of Pakistan, camouflaged with dark mirrors. In fact, in the past 12 months, Pakistan&#8217;s security forces and ISI have broken the backbone of the suicide bombers by arresting most of their commanders and insurgents, while thwarting a number of suicide missions through pre-arrests. But RAW, CIA and Mossad have succeeded in training the new culprits who are regularly being sent to Pakistan with a view to destablising our country. Now, this fact is known to everyone that Pakistan is the only nuclear country in the Islamic world. Hence, US, Israel and India are in collusion to weaken it by creating lawlessness for achieving their secret strategic interests. For this purpose, they are waging a new style guerrilla warfare against Pakistan. Without any doubt these foreign elements are behind the Naval Base attack in Karachi.


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## roadrunner

why wouldnt india use proxies to attack chinese nationals?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

T-Faz said:


> Out goes the Amreeki agent theory and of the RAW involvement too because *India would never back an attack on US and Chinese nationals through proxy*.


 
are you serious??? why wouldnt they? Doesnt it suit their interests 100% 

they want Pakistan isolated, and Chinese defence cooperation with Pakistan causes them much discomfort and upset stomach problems.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## notsuperstitious

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> are you serious??? why wouldnt they? Doesnt it suit their interests 100%
> 
> they want Pakistan isolated, and Chinese defence cooperation with Pakistan causes them much discomfort and upset stomach problems.


 
Because China and America are NOT dumb, they will find out eventually.

That will only work against us.

Also, terrorists attacking Chinese in Pakistan is NOT going to deter China at all, thats some seriously immature way of thinking you are crediting us with, so much adventurism, smells Pakistani.

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## Roybot

Security forces arrest close aide of GHQ attack mastermind | Pakistan | DAWN.COM



> KARACHI: Security authorities have arrested Ahmed Shahzad, a close aide of Aqeel Ahmed, alias Dr Usman, the mastermind of the terrorist attack on Pakistan Army&#8217;s General Headquarters, DawnNews reported.
> 
> *Sources said that intelligence agencies arrested Shahzad from the Karachi airport while he was attempting to flee from the country. Shahzad was found in military police uniform.*


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> are you serious??? why wouldnt they? Doesnt it suit their interests 100%
> 
> they want Pakistan isolated, and Chinese defence cooperation with Pakistan causes them much discomfort and upset stomach problems.



Are you of the opinion that India requires to take on the Chinese through proxies and that too, on Pakistani soil?

I am a little confused as to why Chinese should cause anyone discomfort and upset stomachs. They are human beings and not Chinese food!

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## Abu Zolfiqar

fateh71 said:


> Because China and America are NOT dumb, they will find out eventually.
> 
> That will only work against us.



well according to your media, they are already.....indians often accuse them of support the Chairman Maoists in the northeast --though so far it appears to be a local tribal indigenous movement




> Also, terrorists attacking Chinese in Pakistan is NOT going to deter China at all, thats some seriously immature way of thinking you are crediting us with, so much adventurism, smells Pakistani.



i have no proof....i'm just saying that india would have an interest in something like this attack to take place. I personally do believe there was some degree of indian involvement, but it's my own assesment. I don't trust the indians. So let's leave it at that

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## TOPGUN

Just as the whole nation all of us and all of us Pakistani's aborad were sad and upset about this sage which took place in PNS Mehran... my father was deeply upset and sad to be wathching the news as to what was going on ... as being a ex PN capt he said to me in these words > I belive its an inside job it had to be i have been to PNS Mehran a few times in my time of service and no doubt the walls and barb wire needed to be more better but on a over all thought he said trust me it is just not that easy to come in to the base without some sort assistance from someone inside its really a shame he said and said even when PN does look in to the issue and finds that it perhaps was a inside job it most likely won't leek out to futher make the navy look worse then it already looks in front of the nation its only logical .

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## huzihaidao12

Should not Indian, not the Indian way, although there are motives, but not enough direct and strong, even the ability I have doubts, you need deep intelligence, I do not think India can touch such a deep intelligence.


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## Roybot

nevermind


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## T-Faz

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> are you serious??? why wouldnt they? Doesnt it suit their interests 100%
> 
> they want Pakistan isolated, and Chinese defence cooperation with Pakistan causes them much discomfort and upset stomach problems.


 
I am very serious and you must be realistic in your assessment too.

The Indians do not have the capability, the links and the audacity to go attack a Pakistani base where Chinese and Americans are based.

Any such move could easily be linked back to them based on the groups being utilized and the use of weaponry.

Its not a simple matter, getting Uzbeks, Afghans to collaborate with the locals who are affiliated with Harkat-ul-Islam, TTP and LEJ. 

The mission was to kill the Chinese and Americans and also damage the naval assets there.

It won't help us to blame India when it clearly is not them and everything points towards our Jihadi assets.

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## huzihaidao12

Yes, I know that the Indian intelligence agencies have activities in Pakistan, but, according to available information. Do not underestimate the intelligence capabilities needed for the special operations, which requires a very deep intelligence, is very familiar with Pakistan, around the base, the base of internal and timing. India has not the ability.


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## huzihaidao12

Terrorists also do not have this ability, I am the first to rule out those terrorist, if not get external support, any terrorist can not.


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## humanfirst

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> they want Pakistan isolated, and Chinese defence cooperation with Pakistan causes them much discomfort and upset stomach problems.


 
India or U.S attacking china through proxies in pakistani soil will only enhance the cooparation between china and pakistan,instead of isolating pakistan.


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## T-Faz

Lets be honest here, no nation in the world would want to approve an attack by proxy on Americans and Chinese.

This would have so many repercussions that it would be unbelievable.

The anti-state elements that are found within Pak's institutes have greatly increased since the inception of Pakistan. These Jihadi elements have sworn their allegiance to their religion over the state and they will hurt the nation as and when the see fit.

The internal elements probably pick targets based upon their orders, this was probably scouted some time ago and a plan hatched. The local clerics are helpful in getting the message across to the groups who are capable of attacking, the groups then bring in the people according to skill and the plan is worked upon.

Their training is aided by ex or serving members of our armed forces, the logistical routes are also prepared for weaponry to arrive and the plan is implemented once the time has come, the terrorists take shelter in local Madrassa's before launching their attack.

The cancer of Jihadi extremism has seeped so deep into the nation that it is the biggest threat to this state.

Lets see if our establishment wants to tackle it.

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## Irfan Baloch

fateh71 said:


> Because China and America are NOT dumb, they will find out eventually.
> 
> That will only work against us.
> 
> Also, terrorists attacking Chinese in Pakistan is NOT going to deter China at all, thats some seriously immature way of thinking you are crediting us with, so much adventurism, smells Pakistani.


 
if I look at your statement in Isolation then I agree but sadly I have very bad experience and I tell you why.
see my sir name?
think Balochistan and then think BLA
ring any bells?

this is a terrorist organisation your country supports something that fugitive bramdagh Bughti so proudly announces in his speeches and interviews&#8230;The BLA & company has a policy of kidnapping and killing foreign workers and have killed many Chinese.

another case in point is IRA. which was supported by Americans although they claim to be bosom buddies of the British. And they knew it that British intelligence knew who was funding IRA. I can quote many more but that will be taking the debate off topic. Point is, the whole idea and premise of covert operations is never to be found out and use the ambiguity, confusion and lack of evidence to deny any knowledge of such thing. Both Americans and Chinese have their stakes in this issue anyway and 
WE WILL FIND OUT the culprits. 

I hope its not the Indians, I really do because that will really mess up a lot of things. Our peace process is like 1 step forward and 5 steps backwards.

So&#8230;.
This all happens my friend, the . state policies are not that simple for us mere mortals to understand what they say and what they do are two different things all together.

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## sab

T-Faz said:


> Lets be honest here, no nation in the world would want to approve an attack by proxy on Americans and Chinese.
> 
> This would have so many repercussions that it would be unbelievable.
> 
> The anti-state elements that are found within Pak's institutes have greatly increased since the inception of Pakistan. These Jihadi elements have sworn their allegiance to their religion over the state and they will hurt the nation as and when the see fit.
> 
> The internal elements probably pick targets based upon their orders, this was probably scouted some time ago and a plan hatched. The local clerics are helpful in getting the message across to the groups who are capable of attacking, the groups then bring in the people according to skill and the plan is worked upon.
> 
> Their training is aided by ex or serving members of our armed forces, the logistical routes are also prepared for weaponry to arrive and the plan is implemented once the time has come, the terrorists take shelter in local Madrassa's before launching their attack.
> 
> The cancer of Jihadi extremism has seeped so deep into the nation that it is the biggest threat to this state.
> 
> Lets see if our establishment wants to tackle it.



It is nice to see atleast some people are trying to counter the Jihadi propaganda machines which are infesting PDF, nowadays. Thanks for your neutrality which most of us lack.

The Jihadis have a motive that is Pakistan should wage war against America-Israel-India. When Pakistan government is not doing that they are bent upon capturing powerin Pakistan. They have their own way to reach their goal, that is threat. If any reason, there is more problems in the region, say a foreign invasion, you must be sure these Jihadis will try their best to capture Pakistan claiming they are the sole defender of the nations. It is a fqact, some Pakistani members have acknowledged too, that there are supporters of these terrorists in PDF too who are busy in distract the attention of the people from the root cause of the problem.


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## huzihaidao12

First, a number of points. 

1, all the analysis is based on the existing Pakistan news. 

2, all of our analysis is subjective, everyone has their own methods, my method is exclusion 

3, to determine suspicious targets, the United States, India, Israel, terrorists. I did not put China on the table, because the Indians always imagined too much, not worth to a serious. 

4, if it is joint action, it is pointless to discuss, we assume that he is not a joint action, we are talking about a single action, at least, only one party dominates. 


Then implemented to the exclusion for those who suspect object. 


First, forget Israel, they already have enough trouble, do not give yourself an additional big trouble. 


Second, the terrorists do not have this ability, I have already explained, from a military accomplishment, intelligence, and equipment, have not had this ability. Even there is a careful plan. Dive base, designated attack target P3C, destroying targets, trying to kidnap Chinese people as hostages, in order to spread the attention of security guards to create opportunities for escape, and finally succeeded in escaping. This line is so clear, religious fanaticism of the terrorists do not have this ability, and even I think they do not have the will. If there is no less of Israel possible objects, my first rule out the terrorists. 

Then, the suspect in India and the United States. We first have a look to India.


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## Irfan Baloch

T-Faz said:


> Lets be honest here, no nation in the world would want to approve an attack by proxy on Americans and Chinese.
> 
> This would have so many repercussions that it would be unbelievable.
> 
> The anti-state elements that are found within Pak's institutes have greatly increased since the inception of Pakistan. These Jihadi elements have sworn their allegiance to their religion over the state and they will hurt the nation as and when the see fit.
> 
> The internal elements probably pick targets based upon their orders, this was probably scouted some time ago and a plan hatched. The local clerics are helpful in getting the message across to the groups who are capable of attacking, the groups then bring in the people according to skill and the plan is worked upon.
> 
> Their training is aided by ex or serving members of our armed forces, the logistical routes are also prepared for weaponry to arrive and the plan is implemented once the time has come, the terrorists take shelter in local Madrassa's before launching their attack.
> 
> The cancer of Jihadi extremism has seeped so deep into the nation that it is the biggest threat to this state.
> 
> Lets see if our establishment wants to tackle it.


 
far fetched but still one angle and I wont dissmiss anything untill proven otherwise
the Methodology is too differrnt to any high profile terrorist attack which had a TTP/ AL Qaeda signature , the only resemblance is attack on Sri Lanken team

in both cases the core assailants differed the journey to meet up with 72 virgins and escaped.


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## T-Faz

Irfan Baloch said:


> far fetched but still one angle and I wont dissmiss anything untill proven otherwise
> the Methodology is too differrnt to any high profile terrorist attack which had a TTP/ AL Qaeda signature , the only resemblance is attack on Sri Lanken team
> 
> in both cases the core assailants differed the journey to meet up with 72 virgins and escaped.


 
What else do you want for proof?

They have picked up a cleric from Faisalabad, Dr Usman's brother has also been apprehended.

The Tableeghi Jamaat has been banned from entering Cantts and Defence areas.

Naval officers have pointed towards internal help.

Its a Jihadi mission all the way and the people involved are all from Jihadi groups, local and asiatic.


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## Hammy007

the attack wouldnt have been without inside help

the attack was carried out not by militants but by professional army trained people


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## Tiki Tam Tam

It is not the issue of someone contesting the jihadi terrorists' ideology.

It is a question of survival.

It is time for common Pakistanis to take stock and 'rework' Pakistan and save it from the daily mayhem that it is suffering.

Why should the common Pakistani suffer not only by being killed and why should they be a butt of ridicule?

I am being serious.

The world is advising and commenting on Pakistan in most derogatory terms.

What has the common Pakistan done to deserve this?

Are the Pakistanis any less than anyone in the world?

Have they no right to live with honour and safety?

Who are these terrorists to hold Pakistan at ransom on their interpretation of religion?


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## sab

huzihaidao12 said:


> First, a number of points.
> 
> 1, all the analysis is based on the existing Pakistan news.
> 
> 2, all of our analysis is subjective, everyone has their own methods, my method is exclusion
> 
> 3, to determine suspicious targets, the United States, India, Israel, terrorists. I did not put China on the table, because the Indians always imagined too much, not worth to a serious.
> 
> 4, if it is joint action, it is pointless to discuss, we assume that he is not a joint action, we are talking about a single action, at least, only one party dominates.
> 
> 
> Then implemented to the exclusion for those who suspect object.
> 
> 
> First, forget Israel, they already have enough trouble, do not give yourself an additional big trouble.
> 
> 
> Second, the terrorists do not have this ability, I have already explained, from a military accomplishment, intelligence, and equipment, have not had this ability. Even here there is a careful plan to sneak into to determine the target to complete the goal to try to spread Chinese hostages kidnapped Note to escape, and finally succeeded in escaping. This line is so clear, religious fanaticism of the terrorists do not have this ability, and even I think they do not have the will. If there is no more possible target of Israel, my first rule out the terrorists.
> 
> Then, the suspect in India and the United States. We first have a look to India.



Terrorists dont have the capability? I dont think you keep track of events. The attackers needed training similar to special force of a country, and they can easily have that. Weapons, no problem at all. Inside information- There may be people in PN rank who have sympathy to the cause of Jihad. Pointing fingers to US , India or any other country is just divertinf people's attention.

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## Paan Singh

huzihaidao12 said:


> First, a number of points.
> 
> 1, all the analysis is based on the existing Pakistan news.
> 
> 2, all of our analysis is subjective, everyone has their own methods, my method is exclusion
> 
> 3, to determine suspicious targets, the United States, India, Israel, terrorists. I did not put China on the table, because the Indians always imagined too much, not worth to a serious.
> 
> 4, if it is joint action, it is pointless to discuss, we assume that he is not a joint action, we are talking about a single action, at least, only one party dominates.
> 
> 
> Then implemented to the exclusion for those who suspect object.
> 
> 
> First, forget Israel, they already have enough trouble, do not give yourself an additional big trouble.
> 
> 
> Second, the terrorists do not have this ability, I have already explained, from a military accomplishment, intelligence and equipment, those terrorists have not had this ability. Even here there is a careful plan to sneak into to determine the target to complete the goal to try to spread Chinese hostages kidnapped Note to escape, and finally succeeded in escaping. This line is so clear, religious fanaticism of the terrorists do not have this ability, and even I think they do not have the will. If there is no more possible target of Israel, my first rule out the terrorists.
> 
> Then, the suspect in India and the United States. We first have a look to India.


 
we are already affected from terrorism.......and some internal issues..we were also attacked by same style in mumbai..
btw i can also say..

1)china could gain a lot from this attack..not only in closeness to pakistan but also making pakistan more reliable on it.
2)I can also say,the usa is behind this..
3)May be ISI behind it,to divert the attention of the abbotabad operation from the world and from their ppl..

btw..


> , the suspect in India and the United States. We first have a look to India



this shows that u have india phobia..


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## huzihaidao12

Prism said:


> we are already affected from terrorism.......and some internal issues..we were also attacked by same style in mumbai..
> btw i can also say..
> 
> 1)china could gain a lot from this attack..not only in closeness to pakistan but also making pakistan more reliable on it.
> 2)I can also say,the usa is behind this..
> 3)May be ISI behind it,to divert the attention of the abbotabad operation from the world and from their ppl..
> 
> btw..
> 
> 
> this shows that u have india phobia..


 
Give me some time, OK? do not compare Mumbai and this action, you'd better understand why.


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## AAtish

fateh71 said:


> Because China and America are NOT dumb, they will find out eventually.
> 
> That will only work against us.
> 
> Also, terrorists attacking Chinese in Pakistan is NOT going to deter China at all, *thats some seriously immature way of thinking you are crediting us with*, so much adventurism, smells Pakistani.


 
And the list of "wanted terrorists" was an Intelligent way of thinking right?


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## Paan Singh

huzihaidao12 said:


> Give me some time, OK? *do not compare Mumbai and this action, you'd better understand why*.


 
justify reason!!!!i dont know .........

i want to know ur point and understanding here.


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## T-Faz

The training methods employed by the Jihadi are the classic *Black Stork* tactics which were utilized during the 80's against the soviets.

During those days, the mujahideen used to enter Soviet bases or circle batallions and amongst them used to be a few Black Storks who caused great damage to the soviets.

The training program employed then for some militants seems to be in effect again now.


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## notsuperstitious

Irfan Baloch said:


> if I look at your statement in Isolation then I agree but sadly I have very bad experience and I tell you why.
> see my sir name?
> think Balochistan and then think BLA
> ring any bells?
> 
> this is a terrorist organisation your country supports something that fugitive bramdagh Bughti so proudly announces in his speeches and interviews&#8230;The BLA & company has a policy of kidnapping and killing foreign workers and have killed many Chinese.
> 
> This all happens my friend, the . state policies are not that simple for us mere mortals to understand what they say and what they do are two different things all together.


 
Sir,

For the sake of argument, even if we assume that India supports BLA, that does not mean we ask them to attack Chinese engineers.

Just like how China protected JUD three times in UN right before the Mumbai attacks, that does not mean China wanted JUD to attack and kill Indian and American and Israeli citizens. Those reasons and grounds were different.

However, if the Chinese were the targets of the attack, that would be different. Also, if the Chinese and Americans were target, then India has to be insane, something I don't think is the case.



AAtish said:


> And the list of "wanted terrorists" was an Intelligent way of thinking right?


 
Yes Sir, another paperwork error by some incompetent bureaucrat lead to this covert attack being sanctioned aginst Chinese and American technicians, preceded by two attacks against Navy buses.

LOL, you are just frustrated because you KNOW your army will never tell you the truth. I sympathise with you.


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## AAtish

fateh71 said:


> Sir,
> 
> For the sake of argument, even if we assume that India supports BLA, that does not mean we ask them to attack Chinese engineers.
> 
> Just like how China protected JUD three times in UN right before the Mumbai attacks, that does not mean China wanted JUD to attack and kill Indian and American and Israeli citizens. Those reasons and grounds were different.
> 
> However, if the Chinese were the targets of the attack, that would be different. Also, if the Chinese and Americans were target, then India has to be insane, something I don't think is the case.


 
Any why wouldn't you think that "Mumbai Attack" was internal job?

- American public opinion goes against Pakistan
- Israel's blabbering about Pakistan is justified
- Indians get "pity" from all over the world
- Pakistan gets bad name in Global community..

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## AAtish

fateh71 said:


> Sir,
> 
> *Yes Sir, another paperwork error by some incompetent bureaucrat lead to this covert attack being sanctioned aginst Chinese and American technicians, preceded by two attacks against Navy buses.
> *
> LOL, you are just frustrated because you KNOW your army will never tell you the truth. I sympathise with you.


 
Ha ha ha.. and you call this intelligent response? 

Well i know one thing, as long as the roots of all this mess are taken out and branches shredded into pieces, i don't mind who ever it is.. At the end, it is OUR country, and for us Pakistanis, our country comes first..

You might have noticed that not even ONE person is saying anything in support of attackers or traitors (if it is an inside job, which i highly doubt)


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## Areesh

T-Faz said:


> What else do you want for proof?
> 
> *They have picked up a cleric from Faisalabad, Dr Usman's brother has also been apprehended.*
> 
> The Tableeghi Jamaat has been banned from entering Cantts and Defence areas.
> 
> Naval officers have pointed towards internal help.
> 
> Its a Jihadi mission all the way and the people involved are all from Jihadi groups, local and asiatic.


 
By the way Usman's brother wasn't arrested because of this incident but because of GHQ attack. He was absconding after GHQ attack. I like your love to defend Bharat but at least don't manipulate facts. I have also heard that he was arrested a week ago(before this PNS Mehran incident happened). Some other member can confirm this.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

AAtish said:


> Ha ha ha.. and you call this intelligent response?
> 
> Well i know one thing, as long as the roots of all this mess are taken out and branches shredded into pieces, i don't mind who ever it is.. At the end, it is OUR country, and for us Pakistanis, our country comes first..
> 
> You might have noticed that not even ONE person is saying anything in support of attackers or traitors (if it is an inside job, which i highly doubt)



One could say a logical response.

None are praising the terrorist but none are also not keen that there be an inquiry.

How many more attacks so that people are agitated enough to take the roots out as you say?


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## k7x

First of all on what basis forign hand is suspected in this .. 

if a person decides to die with arms he will cause maximum damage as he does not have to fear for wonds or life.. 

So 6 die hard terrorist are always dangerous than 100s of armed commando .

Many points that sopesticated weapons could be given by Inida or America or Isrel.. 

search in Google, nato supply attack and looting, you get every thing from hummer to M series rifles right in Pakistan. Night vision is also available in ebay  and in the Nato Supplies too...


If you ignore them today,Future is a ? , I am sorry i am watching my neighborer getting into trouble knowingly  .


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## T-Faz

Areesh said:


> By the way Usman's brother wasn't arrested because of this incident but because of GHQ attack. He was absconding after GHQ attack. I like your love to defend Bharat but at least don't manipulate facts. I have also heard that he was arrested a week ago(before this PNS Mehran incident happened). Some other member can confirm this.


 
Did I say Dr Usmans brother has been picked up for this incident or are you just assuming that I did as I mentioned it in that line?

I was merely trying to make Irfan realize that the Jihadi's have a working network in Pakistan.

Dont try and get smart here, the reality is that these jihadi's have a lot of connections and support, Dr Usmans brother was never caught until recently in a armed forces unifrom none the less. 

I know you want to keep your Jihadi's clean here but the reality is that its them all the way.

Did you even read my post in which I was replying to Irfan, it was a general brief on how terrorists work.


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## TOPGUN

Who is this guy they caught from Karachi airport?


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## huzihaidao12

First, a number of points. 

1, all the analysis is based on the existing Pakistan news. 

2, all of our analysis is subjective, everyone has their own methods, my method is exclusion 

3, to determine suspicious targets, the United States, India, Israel, terrorists. I did not put China on the table, because the Indians always imagined too much, not worth to a serious. 

4, if it is joint action, it is pointless to discuss, we assume that he is not a joint action, we are talking about a single action, at least, only one party dominates. 


Then implemented to the exclusion for those who suspect object. 


First, forget Israel, they already have enough trouble, do not give yourself an additional big trouble. 


Second, the terrorists do not have this ability, I have already explained, from a military accomplishment, intelligence, and equipment, have not had this ability. Even there is a careful plan. Dive base, designated attack target P3C, destroying targets, trying to kidnap Chinese people as hostages, in order to spread the attention of security guards to create opportunities for escape, and finally succeeded in escaping. This line is so clear, religious fanaticism of the terrorists do not have this ability, and even I think they do not have the will. If there is no less of Israel possible objects, my first rule out the terrorists. 

Then, the suspect in India and the United States. We first have a look to India. 




Intelligence capabilities


Like I said, do not underestimate the intelligence capabilities needed, in theory, only three countries to meet this capacity, Pakistan, the United States, China, the only three countries have the opportunity to get all the information. India is not in the list.


United States and China have long cooperation with Pakistan.


United States has a large intelligence network coverage Pakistan , and even legitimate intelligence activities.


Although China also has the ability, in theory, because we have long time cooperation and Pakistan, especially military cooperation, including within the naval base. But I know that the Chinese activities are limited because the security in Pakistan, all activities are protected by Pakistan military, not free. Therefore, China's intelligence capabilities are very limited in their own persons, so that there is a doubt over whether China has enough intelligence capabilities. But if only the internal base of Karachi, China should have the ability.


As stated above, Pakistan own has the ability, the United States have sufficient capacity, China has a doubt whether there is enough information. But India do not have the intelligence capability.



Insiders

However, if coupled with internal staff? It complicated, although not zero possible, but I think that is the smallest possible insider selling that information to India. Pakistan's military may have sympathy for the terrorists, Pakistan's military have pro-American personnel , but who heard of pro-India? just for the money? This is not a drama, the risk is too high compared income.


If the Pakistani army collusion with terrorists, insiders, it is possible, because of religious reasons, religious faith, without considering the consequences, even if there is risk.


The United States? Possible, if the promise of money and protection, you know the position of Pakistan is soft to the U.S for some reason, even if they are found, if the United States to intense pressure to Pakistan, then what happens? May not have any penalty or only a small penalty, and then You can enjoy the money to leave Pakistan. It is very possible , in psychological motivation, the risk does not look so great, this may be a temptation even for the rebellion.


However, selling to India, there is no religious reason, just because of money, then the punishment is death by treason, this is not drama, I do not think there is enough to attract those people who have a decent life .



Motivation 


Although we all know that India has a motive, or even look directly and strongly, but in fact, it is not enough to direct and strong. 


Before the event, India has a loud declaration of Pakistan as a surprise, therefore, it is a strong motivation? Not, if the Indian government really has the secret operation, first, that there will be no loud declarations, Second, the India object should be some terrorists gathering place or training camps, military bases, it is not India's target range. 


Attacks on military bases, or India would like to start a war? I think it is impossible, 


First, there is a sound reason why the Indian media to advocate in a surprise attack on Pakistan as attack against Osama bin Laden, this is a test for all aspects. Need to see reaction especially China and then decide whether to act. His actions do not come so fast, just a few days (three days?). 


Second, India should have been the Chinese response. Attack in Pakistan is equivalent to attack China, the expressed to the United States? United States has no desire and ability to start a war, psychological warfare and the game is now the choice. If war is a choices to United States, Hillary would not be so rushed to Pakistan. Therefore, China's statement is not directed against the United States, but against India. This statement is so strong and serious. I personally think that India should have abandoned the action, at least still considering . And, if it is attacked India, Pakistan and China knows it, Pakistan has worried the United States, but certainly will respond to Indian attacks. It is certain, Pakistan is soft on the United States, but do not really soft on India. Indeed, since China has already declared security commitments to Pakistan, if this is the India action, China will not do nothing. the fact is that both China and Pakistan know that this action is irrelevant and India. Therefore, both countries without any reaction to India. even without any sound, because India is strong enough? No, just because China and Pakistan know the truth. 


Even, as the time too coincidental, the target is too coincidental (for anti-submarine capabilities), all it seems, India is the sinner, but because of too much coincidence, and I personally think this is one stone two birds, first of all to blame India, or at least divert attention For the real prisoners. Second, because the weakening of Pakistan's defense capability at sea, which forms a good practice for India, which is a temptation to India, though, some people think this is a India based on the prisoners, but I personally think that this means Some people encourage India to take a hit on Pakistan. just my personal point of view. I also hope that India will not do anything silly to go into some games.




So, I ruled out of India as a possibility, of course, need to focus on more news. However, at least now from publicly available information to see, India will be excluded, then only one goal, the United States, anyone that surprised?


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## Hammy007

my question to all members is, if the connection between the cia and karachi attacks is found, will the govt admit it

a big NO!!!,

the rehman malik even before the end of operation declared talibans and alquaeda as the responsible ones

the raymond davis terrorist was let free by his same government and army, and it appeared in news for ages how davis was VVVIP treated even in the jail with tv air conditioner etc

in the end how these militant got commando training from themselves, they can only get from pak army or nato/american forces, so can any sane guy ignore this fact during this investigation, NO, before the investigation ends they will have to answer how these miitats got these night visions and training


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## Paan Singh

huzihaidao12 said:


> Intelligence capabilities
> 
> 
> Like I said, do not underestimate the intelligence capabilities needed, in theory, only three countries to meet this capacity, Pakistan, the United States, China, the only three countries have the opportunity to get all the information. India is not in the list.
> 
> 
> United States and China have long cooperation with Pakistan.
> 
> 
> Coverage of the United States has a large intelligence network, and even legitimate intelligence activities.
> 
> 
> Although China also has the ability, in theory, because we have long time cooperation and Pakistan, especially military cooperation, including within the naval base. But I know that the Chinese activities are limited because the security in Pakistan, all activities are protected by Pakistan military, not free. Therefore, China's intelligence capabilities are very limited in their own persons, so that there is a doubt over whether China has enough intelligence capabilities. But if only the internal base of Karachi, China should have the ability.
> 
> 
> As stated above, Pakistan own has the ability, the United States have sufficient capacity, China has a doubt whether there is enough information. But India do not have the intelligence capability.
> 
> 
> 
> Insiders
> 
> However, if coupled with internal staff? It complicated, although not zero possible, but I think that is the smallest possible insider selling that information to India. Pakistan's military may have sympathy for the terrorists, Pakistan's military have pro-American personnel , but who heard of pro-India? just for the money? This is not a drama, the risk is too high compared income.
> 
> 
> If the Pakistani army collusion with terrorists, insiders, it is possible, because of religious reasons, religious faith, without considering the consequences, even if there is risk.
> 
> 
> The United States? Possible, if the promise of money and protection, you know the position of Pakistan is, soft to the U.S for some reason, even if they are found, if the United States to intense pressure to Pakistan, then what happens? May not have any penalty or only a small penalty, and then You can enjoy the money to leave Pakistan. It is very possible , in psychological motivation, the risk does not look so great, this may be a temptation even for the rebellion.
> 
> 
> However, selling to India, there is no religious reason, just because of money, then the punishment is death by treason, this is not drama, I do not think there is enough to attract those people who have a decent life .
> 
> 
> 
> Motivation
> 
> Although we all know that India has a motive, or even look directly and strongly, but in fact, it is not enough to direct and strong.


 
you are desperately bringing indian hand.
how can india be??just for the sake of two aircraft,which were supposed to be used against india??
your entire point is two aircraft and against whom they were believed to be used??
world is too big and i think u can look all scenarios..
btw,i can more prove chinese hand behind it..just like ur conspiracy theoriesP

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## Hammy007

YouTube - &#x202a;ThePakistanNews&#39;s Channel&#x202c;&rlm;


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## huzihaidao12

Start at the U.S.. As I said, the United States did not afford another war, so psychological warfare and play a game to become the option , of course, anyone surprised? 

Although we do not get any U.S. documents, but the aim is not difficult to guess, it is that few points. 

1, make the fact that Pakistan is not a safe enough place. This attack is a direct challenge to the Pakistan army, you see, it clearly shows that even the Pakistani army is not enough to protect themselves, so, it is reasonable for a problem Pakistani army how to protect the security of nuclear weapons? Yes, the U.S. can not afford a war such as Afghanistan and Iraq, but a surprise attack is possible. And not a zero chance of war, war always means great opportunities and risks, who knows some people how to calculate, is not no possibility for the war. 

2, the psychological warfare. The broad scope is for all Pakistanis, create chaos and undermine the confidence, then use the chaos to do something. But more importantly, it directed against the Pakistani military, no matter how Pakistan members blame the army, in fact, the Pakistan military is the strongest force for the protection of the interests of Pakistan, know it. the United Statesto take this opportunity to exert greater pressure on the Pakistani army by the Pakistanis themselves. Then maybe give better chance to force the Pakistani army is more cooperation and the United States, even if Pakistan do not want and do not meet interests. 

3, to encourage India to attack Pakistan, manufacture chaos in South Asia, if there is really a war between Pakistan and India, China also will get involved, it is too good for U.S. interests. 

All I have to say is that Pakistan should be united and strong, I have said and muse, the best way is to maintain confidence in the mist. This is the darkest moment, also is the latest time from the dawn. As an ordinary Chinese, it was all my blessings.


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## Areesh

T-Faz said:


> Did I say Dr Usmans brother has been picked up for this incident or are you just assuming that I did as I mentioned it in that line?


 
Well you were definitely referring to this incident when you mentioned Dr Usman's brother or else it can only be considered as a continuation of weird posts coming from your confused mind. 



> I know you want to keep your Jihadi's clean here but the reality is that its them all the way.



I don't want to represent anyone clean here buddy unlike you. I want to hang everyone involved in this incident. Even if he lives in some consulate of some fcuking country in Afghanistan or he is a maulvi or whatever. I just want punishment for everyone. Not a hogwash like we usually witness after every incident by the "*secular*" establishment of Pakistan.

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## T-Faz

Areesh said:


> Well you were definitely referring to this incident when you mentioned Dr Usman's brother or else it can only be considered as a continuation of weird posts coming from your confused mind.



Watch your post, I was briefing Irfan on how these attacks occur and he said it was a far fetched idea, I replied to him telling him of recent developments and how it was a Jihadi mission, how exactly is that confused. Seems like you are getting confused with all your vented up frustrations.



> I don't want to represent anyone clean here buddy unlike you. I want to hang everyone involved in this incident. Even if he lives in some consulate of some fcuking country in Afghanistan or he is a maulvi or whatever. I just want punishment for everyone. Not a hogwash like we usually witness after every incident by the "*secular*" establishment of Pakistan.


 
Your first sentence does not make sense, there is also no country in Afghanistan as it is a country itself. 

As for this supposed secular establishment, oddly enough, Pakistan is still an Islamic republic with Blasphemy laws and all these other odd religious laws.

Now what kind of 'secular' establishment would continue to run an Islamic Republic.

Confused much?


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## Areesh

T-Faz said:


> Watch your post, I was briefing Irfan on how these attacks occur and he said it was a far fetched idea, I replied to him telling him of recent developments and how it was a Jihadi mission, how exactly is that confused. Seems like you are getting confused with all your vented up frustrations.


 
So you were just trying to proof this incident to be jihadi incident by mentioning arrest of Usman's brother who was involved in some other incident. Bravo!!! Thumbs up for you.



> Your first sentence does not make sense, there is also no country in Afghanistan as it is a country itself.



I said consulates of some fcuking country in Afghanistan. Got it???



> Now what kind of 'secular' establishment would continue to run an Islamic Republic.



Musharraf wasn't a Maulvi. Nor does Kayani, Pasha, Noman Bashir, Rao, Zardari. None of them are maulvis. But still they have done a great job in making Pakistan a laughing stock. They are as secular as some guy whining about Arabs all the time. Anyways as I said I want extreme punishment for anyone who was involved in this incident. Not arresting some guy with a beard and then closing the case which is the modus operandi of Pakistan establishment.


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## asad71

*Hopes dancing on bald men&#8217;s hair The Mehran fiasco! * 

By Ejaz Haider
Published: May 25, 2011

The writer was a Ford Scholar at the Programme in Arms Control, Disarmament and International Security at UIUC (1997) and a visiting fellow at the Brookings Institution&#8217;s Foreign Policy Studies Programme
The Chief of Naval Staff (CNS) Admiral Noman Bashir says the Pakistan Navy (PN) is on high alert and the PNS Mehran attack was not owed to a security lapse. He is right. It is possible, too, that Huckleberry Finn commanded the Corps D&#8217;Armée.
We are also told naval commandos reached the spot in three minutes. I am deeply impressed. They killed four out of possibly six attackers, two managing to extricate through a base, let&#8217;s not forget, which was highly secure before the intrusion and which, after the attack, had been further secured. [NB: this is where Interior Minister Rehman Malik&#8217;s statement about the attackers being Star Wars characters begins to make sense.]
I have a thought. If I were to choose someone to command an air defence (AD) battalion, I would opt for Admiral Bashir. Here&#8217;s why. His basic strategy would be to tell his gunners and SAM operators to try and shoot down the attack aircraft in a sortie. He will claim success after his battalion has shot down ten of the 14 aircraft, while the four managed to complete their mission.
Admiral Bashir, through his illustrious career, seems to have missed out on one basic principle of sound defence &#8212; mission denial. Corollary: I was bullshitting when I said I would put him in command of an AD battalion. I would not. I am not interested in shooting down enemy aircraft; my primary aim is to deny them their mission. The attackers carried the day because they accomplished their mission. And they did so because Aunts Agatha and Dahlia are commanding the PN and PNS Mehran respectively, thank you.
Ah! But I got one thing wrong. There indeed was no security lapse because that would presuppose security. So, perhaps the CNS is right. If the perimeter of the base is not secure; if those responsible for security have not even worked out likely approaches and secured them; if watchtowers are not being manned; if there is no system for alarms setting off if someone tampers with the concertina wires running over the walls of the base; if there are no searchlights; if there are no trip wires; if there is no concept of layered defence; if there is no local defence around the assets; if the assets have been positioned against all standard operating procedures, as one aviation enthusiast pointed out to me, without Hessian or sand bars when in the open, and are closely packed, then there was no lapse. It was a monumental screw up.
The attackers, on the other hand, were prepared, were highly trained, had reconnoitred the area, had the elements of surprise and speed on their side, knew their dedicated target, had worked out distances, the time it would take them to get from one to the other point, and knew they could take out the planes before they got cordoned off and into a firefight. They had planned it to a tee.
Which is why, by the time they got into a firefight with the naval and SSG commandos, they had already accomplished their mission, inflicting a loss of $72 million on the PN and Pakistan, upgrade costs of the P-3C Orion excluded. But more than that, they had deprived the PN of its primary force-multiplier platform. If I have to put together a commando platoon, I will most definitely hire these guys.
Now to the reasons. Fact 1: Naval aviation, as one senior Pakistan Air Force officer tells me, is lower down the pecking order within the service. Fact 2: the PN is the last in the pecking order within the military, getting according to some estimates, Rs1 for every Rs40 that go to the army. Go to the GHQ and then visit the Naval HQ. Or better still, visit the Air HQ and then go to the Naval HQ. You will see the difference. And it is not just the difference of infrastructure; the difference runs through everything, including human resource. It is the difference you see between the rich and the poor side of a family.
The PN is a badly neglected service. It is badly neglected because the army and also the air force manage to upstage the PN on all counts. This is not the space to write about the World War II concepts of warfare that dominate thinking here because the army dominates not just the military but also the country, but it must be noted that the PNS Mehran disaster is not without solid reasons. With peanuts one can only get monkeys.
Nor should the army and air force sit easy, though. There is now a clear pattern to this audacity and while they may be slightly better prepared, the enemy is no pushover. The terrorists are not just trying to create a media spectacle, though that is highly welcome from their perspective. There is a bigger motive in attacking the military and through that highlighting its inability to defend its assets.
The strategy fits in with another narrative: If bases and high-value assets are not secure, is there a guarantee that an attack like this cannot be mounted on Pakistan&#8217;s nuclear assets, and successfully? That question has been reverberating through the security circles for some years. It will now be revived again. Add to this the possibility of insider-outsider collusion that can make possible the breach of even high security and the narrative sticks out like a wart on a bald head.
Can something be done? Yes and no. Yes, if we are prepared to rise from our slumber and get our act together. No, if we continue with our inertia. Action requires that we develop a better-coordinated counter-terrorism strategy; improve intelligence; revamp our forces (the current configuration is unsuited to this war); develop speedier response mechanisms and prepare a list of all those places that have been, can and will be targeted. This requires getting into the mind of the adversary. This is the operational side.
On the political side, the state has to dominate the narrative which it has failed to do so far. Karachi should help clarify doubts in people&#8217;s minds. That is the harder part. It is moot to ask if Pakistan is prepared for that. As I was writing these lines a friend sent me a poem by E E Cummings, &#8220;as freedom is a breakfast food&#8221;. One line reads &#8220;or hopes dance best on bald men&#8217;s hair&#8221;. Need I say more?
Published in The Express Tribune, May 25th, 2011.


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## T-Faz

Areesh said:


> So you were just trying to proof this incident to be jihadi incident by mentioning arrest of Usman's brother who was involved in some other incident. Bravo!!! Thumbs up for you.



Some other incident, aren't they all related to the same groups of men, wasn't Ahmed Shahzad caught in an Army uniform.

There is a link between his arrest in Karachi to these attacks as the same organization was involved in both attacks.



> I said consulates of some fcuking country in Afghanistan. Got it???



Watch you damn language, I know the likes are not taught any manners but make sure you speak properly. Otherwise I know how to treat a dog the way it needs to be treated, Got it???

You incoherent posts sound deranged and do not make any sense, what does it mean consulates of some countries, the terrorists are attacking here with their masterminds and blabbering on.



> Musharraf wasn't a Maulvi. Nor does Kayani, Pasha, Noman Bashir, Rao, Zardari. None of them are maulvis. But still they have done a great job in making Pakistan a laughing stock. They are as secular as some guy whining about Arabs all the time. Anyways as I said I want extreme punishment for anyone who was involved in this incident. Not arresting some guy with a beard and then closing the case which is the modus operandi of Pakistan establishment.


 
Pakistan was made a laughing stock with this jihadi policy, these 7th century laws about women and what not.

These people you mentioned work in tandem with clerics and they have become secular all of a sudden. 

I am not some frustrated confused soul typing nonsense all over the place.

Get a grip, you come across as pathetic.

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## roadrunner

so... noone knows who the plotters are yet.. that's the bottomline.


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## roadrunner

fateh71 said:


> Because China and America are NOT dumb, they will find out eventually.
> 
> That will only work against us.



By this logic, any attack by Pakistan on India through proxy would be stupid because India will eventually blame Pakistan. 

It works both ways. 

That's why they work through proxy. because it is difficult to find definite information through proxy.

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## happycanuck

I have been following different posts, but yours is the only that makes some sense while others are more or less engaged in venting their hatred against each other. Any way it is their own life and time being wasted. 
We as citizens on this planet are here for doing some thing meaningful and good for the humanity rather than engage ourself in speculation and rumor mongring. We want both the countries to live in peace just the way rest of the nations live. Citizens of Nation of Pakistan have lot to look forward to a better peaceful and progressive country. First and foremost is the peace pact with your neighbours on east and west borders. Get out of the web of USA and China. Put your focus towards economic development and independent foreign policy. It can be started by demanding accountability and transparencey in day to day affairs of the nation. I hope all off our Pakistani, Chinies, Indian and Afgahnistan brothers and sisters get my message.

Wishing you all peace with in your hearts and mind.


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## Stealth IFV

happycanuck said:


> I have been following different posts, but yours is the only that makes some sense while others are more or less engaged in venting their hatred against each other. Any way it is their own life and time being wasted.
> We as citizens on this planet are here for doing some thing meaningful and good for the humanity rather than engage ourself in speculation and rumor mongring. We want both the countries to live in peace just the way rest of the nations live. Citizens of Nation of Pakistan have lot to look forward to a better peaceful and progressive country. First and foremost is the peace pact with your neighbours on east and west borders. *Get out of the web of USA and China.* Put your focus towards economic development and independent foreign policy. It can be started by demanding accountability and transparencey in day to day affairs of the nation. I hope all off our Pakistani, Chinies, Indian and Afgahnistan brothers and sisters get my message.
> 
> Wishing you all peace with in your hearts and mind.


 
You can't dictate to others what to do in their foreign policy, alliances etc. are up to them. There's no way you're Canadian. Not giving a f*** is a hallmark of ours. We prefer everyone comes closer together, Pakistan brings the West close to China. That will create dialogue. Then you will have true peace. If only they would put that to better use. Plus, your post is in the wrong thread.


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## roadrunner

correction Stealth IVF.. if anyone is not Canadian you'd be the highest on the list as an Indian with Canadian flags.

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## roadrunner

happycanuck said:


> I have been following different posts, but yours is the only that makes some sense while others are more or less engaged in venting their hatred against each other. Any way it is their own life and time being wasted.
> We as citizens on this planet are here for doing some thing meaningful and good for the humanity rather than engage ourself in speculation and rumor mongring. We want both the countries to live in peace just the way rest of the nations live. Citizens of Nation of Pakistan have lot to look forward to a better peaceful and progressive country. First and foremost is the peace pact with your neighbours on east and west borders. Get out of the web of USA and China. Put your focus towards economic development and independent foreign policy. It can be started by demanding accountability and transparencey in day to day affairs of the nation. I hope all off our Pakistani, Chinies, Indian and Afgahnistan brothers and sisters get my message.
> 
> Wishing you all peace with in your hearts and mind.


 
Would be nice to think so. but Afghanistan and Pakistan are where all the games are played.

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## SMC

Stealth IFV said:


> You can't dictate to others what to do in their foreign policy, alliances etc. are up to them. There's no way you're Canadian. Not giving a f*** is a hallmark of ours. We prefer everyone comes closer together, Pakistan brings the West close to China. That will create dialogue. Then you will have true peace. If only they would put that to better use. Plus, your post is in the wrong thread.


 


roadrunner said:


> correction Stealth IVF.. if anyone is not Canadian you'd be the highest on the list as an Indian with Canadian flags.



He's either an Indian with Canadian flag or belongs to tea party of Canada. Either way his opinion as far as war in Afghanistan is concerned is accept by a small minority of Canadians.


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## AAtish

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> One could say a logical response.
> 
> None are praising the terrorist but none are also not keen that there be an inquiry.
> 
> How many more attacks so that people are agitated enough to take the roots out as you say?


 
Well the military inquiry is going on, and there will be court martial if there are inside hands involved, for the outsiders, they will be "picked" and taken to "undisclosed" places for interrogation..

I don't mind it as the political government is "for sale", and i don't want military to be interrogated by government as long as we don't have "dependable" politicians.. Military and Judiciary are the only departments working in Pakistan anyways..


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## AAtish

happycanuck said:


> I have been following different posts, but yours is the only that makes some sense while others are more or less engaged in venting their hatred against each other. Any way it is their own life and time being wasted.
> We as citizens on this planet are here for doing some thing meaningful and good for the humanity rather than engage ourself in speculation and rumor mongring. We want both the countries to live in peace just the way rest of the nations live. Citizens of Nation of Pakistan have lot to look forward to a better peaceful and progressive country. First and foremost is the peace pact with your neighbours on east and west borders. Get out of the web of USA and China. Put your focus towards economic development and independent foreign policy. It can be started by demanding accountability and transparencey in day to day affairs of the nation. I hope all off our Pakistani, Chinies, Indian and Afgahnistan brothers and sisters get my message.
> 
> Wishing you all peace with in your hearts and mind.


 
Pakistan can have peace in its west but no way there is going to peace with east, there are too many issues, biggest being the (never ever existent) "Akhand Bharat".. thats the base of all problems, has been, Is, and will be.. and Until that mentality is not changed, our east is our enemy.. from our side, until Kashmir issue is sorted, no question of a peace with them..

read the history if you want to learn more..


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## notsuperstitious

AAtish said:


> Any why wouldn't you think that "Mumbai Attack" was internal job?
> 
> - American public opinion goes against Pakistan
> - Israel's blabbering about Pakistan is justified
> - Indians get "pity" from all over the world
> - Pakistan gets bad name in Global community..


 
Sure, the possibility can not be ruled out.

But the investigation has lead us to other conclusions. Ajmal Kasab, Headley, Rana, the telephone calls...

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## indushek

Aamir Hussain said:


> If my "Theory" is correct than there is a time lag between replacement planes available to Pakistan and probable readiness timelines for such a raid.
> 
> Mind you, India might be happy with all of this, overtly but if there is any sense prevailing on the other side of the border, they would be deeply worried on these and other developments in Pakistan that can affect them directly.
> 
> Why I am say what I am saying -- the purpose of any guerrilla type of war or insurgency is not to fight pitched battle with regular army troops but to relentlessly downgrade the will to put up resistance by escalating the targets list from front line units to military families, rear areas, key political or religious figures, and sensational symbolic hits like GHQ, PNS Mehran etc


 
If so the logical follow through would be an attack either on Pakistani or Indian side via the sea route wouldn't it?? So what are the installations so worthy that the Orions had to be taken out??


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## Juice

SMC said:


> He's either an Indian with Canadian flag or belongs to tea party of Canada. Either way his opinion as far as war in Afghanistan is concerned is accept by a small minority of Canadians.


 
I know lots of Canadians. Most white, one Indian. The vast majority of them support WoT, even tho some think Americans take the Canadian contribution lightly.


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## newdelhinsa

*Arrested marine commando had warned Pak of imminent attack
*

A Pakistani marine commando posted at the PNS Mehran naval airbase, which was attacked by terrorists on Sunday, had been arrested in January for his links with Taliban [ Images ] and Al Qaeda [ Images ] affiliates. The marine commando had warned authorities about an impending attack in Pakistan. 

The commando belongs to south Waziristan agency, The News daily quoted its sources as saying. Besides disclosing details about the impending attack on the naval airbase, the marine commando had warned that oil depots and power grid stations were on the hit list of terrorists. 

The commando had warned the authorities of attacks on naval installations, said an unnamed official privy to the details. However, no measures were taken to avert the attacks, the report said. The Pakistan Navy's directorate of public relations offered no comment on the matter. 

The arrested commando is a member of the Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain and Hakimullah Mehsud, who have carried out a wave of bombings and suicide attacks across Pakistan. 

The banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility for the attack on PNS Mehran, saying it was carried out to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden [ Images ] in a United States raid on May 2. Besides the attack on PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was available of an attack on the army's general headquarters, six months before it was carried out in October 2009, but the army "sat over the information", The News reported. 

The "negligence on the part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged militants who have named the intelligence agencies as sheep", the report said. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as "goats" by the militants, according to communication records obtained from a flash drive, the report said


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## AAtish

fateh71 said:


> Sure, the possibility can not be ruled out.
> 
> But the investigation has lead us to other conclusions. Ajmal Kasab, Headley, Rana, the telephone calls...


 
IF you are so sure, why not let Pakistan investigate with those people? besides, Headley and Rana are not worthy witnesses, their honesty is highly questionable, secondly, that case is still in process, so nothing could be said until a ruling.. 

Any confirmed fact?


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## Hammy007

newdelhinsa said:


> *Arrested marine commando had warned Pak of imminent attack
> *
> 
> A Pakistani marine commando posted at the PNS Mehran naval airbase, which was attacked by terrorists on Sunday, had been arrested in January for his links with Taliban [ Images ] and Al Qaeda [ Images ] affiliates. The marine commando had warned authorities about an impending attack in Pakistan.
> 
> The commando belongs to south Waziristan agency, The News daily quoted its sources as saying. Besides disclosing details about the impending attack on the naval airbase, the marine commando had warned that oil depots and power grid stations were on the hit list of terrorists.
> 
> The commando had warned the authorities of attacks on naval installations, said an unnamed official privy to the details. However, no measures were taken to avert the attacks, the report said. The Pakistan Navy's directorate of public relations offered no comment on the matter.
> 
> The arrested commando is a member of the Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain and Hakimullah Mehsud, who have carried out a wave of bombings and suicide attacks across Pakistan.
> 
> The banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility for the attack on PNS Mehran, saying it was carried out to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden [ Images ] in a United States raid on May 2. Besides the attack on PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was available of an attack on the army's general headquarters, six months before it was carried out in October 2009, but the army "sat over the information", The News reported.
> 
> The "negligence on the part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged militants who have named the intelligence agencies as sheep", the report said. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as "goats" by the militants, according to communication records obtained from a flash drive, the report said


 
pakistani source please thanks, marines dont take part in NW operations, its not there duty


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## Hammy007

newdelhinsa said:


> *Arrested marine commando had warned Pak of imminent attack
> *
> 
> A Pakistani marine commando posted at the PNS Mehran naval airbase, which was attacked by terrorists on Sunday, had been arrested in January for his links with Taliban [ Images ] and Al Qaeda [ Images ] affiliates. The marine commando had warned authorities about an impending attack in Pakistan.
> 
> The commando belongs to south Waziristan agency, The News daily quoted its sources as saying. Besides disclosing details about the impending attack on the naval airbase, the marine commando had warned that oil depots and power grid stations were on the hit list of terrorists.
> 
> The commando had warned the authorities of attacks on naval installations, said an unnamed official privy to the details. However, no measures were taken to avert the attacks, the report said. The Pakistan Navy's directorate of public relations offered no comment on the matter.
> 
> The arrested commando is a member of the Mehsud tribe, which has produced Taliban leaders like Baitullah Mehsud, Qari Hussain and Hakimullah Mehsud, who have carried out a wave of bombings and suicide attacks across Pakistan.
> 
> The banned Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility for the attack on PNS Mehran, saying it was carried out to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden [ Images ] in a United States raid on May 2. Besides the attack on PNS Mehran, credible intelligence was available of an attack on the army's general headquarters, six months before it was carried out in October 2009, but the army "sat over the information", The News reported.
> 
> The "negligence on the part of the intelligence community and security czars has encouraged militants who have named the intelligence agencies as sheep", the report said. Other personnel of the armed services are dubbed as "goats" by the militants, according to communication records obtained from a flash drive, the report said


 
pakistani source please thanks, marines dont take part in NW operations, its not there duty


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Hammy007 said:


> pakistani source please thanks, marines dont take part in NW operations, its not there duty


 
It says hes SSN and belongs frm NW.


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## Roybot

Hammy007 said:


> pakistani source please thanks, marines dont take part in NW operations, its not there duty



Arrested Pak Navy commando had warned of PNS Mehran attack back in January | Pakistan News | Onepakistan.com

Arrested helper of militants had warned of PNS Mehran attack


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## humanfirst

roadrunner said:


> By this logic, any attack by Pakistan on India through proxy would be stupid because India will eventually blame Pakistan.


 
Dude that theory works for nations and people who plan based on worldly gains,not for those folks who just wanna spank enemies and go to heaven for 72 virgins..For example we can not even imagine some chinese coming to india and killing random people,because they know it is counterproductive to their nation.But in the case of pakistan,there had always been many ajmal kasabs(even in establishment)who gladly do any irrational thing for the sake of some stupid ideology.


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## Aamir Hussain

indushek said:


> If so the logical follow through would be an attack either on Pakistani or Indian side via the sea route wouldn't it?? So what are the installations so worthy that the Orions had to be taken out??


 
The importance of the P3C is all about detection on route to a possible target and not about any possible installation. I just do not see the connection between P3C and an "Installation."


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## notsuperstitious

AAtish said:


> IF you are so sure, why not let Pakistan investigate with those people? besides, Headley and Rana are not worthy witnesses, their honesty is highly questionable, secondly, that case is still in process, so nothing could be said until a ruling..
> 
> Any confirmed fact?


 
LOL, so you are saying if Pakistan is involved in Mumbai attacks, why not let Pakistan investigate it? LOL

Buddy, I'm not a shrink and this is no place to fix your state of denial. I know the type, they believe in flying angels but won't believe a flying plane hit WTC.


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## AAtish

fateh71 said:


> LOL, so you are saying if Pakistan is involved in Mumbai attacks, why not let Pakistan investigate it? LOL
> 
> Buddy, I'm not a shrink and this is no place to fix your state of denial. I know the type, they believe in flying angels but won't believe a flying plane hit WTC.


 
You sure are not a shrink but you do need to see one.. i'll suggest on ASAP basis..

Its a "person" you caught (apparently) from Pakistan who (apparently) committed a crime in India (apparently), so why not let Pakistan Investigate the matter?? Why should we take your "word of mouth" on as-it-is basis?? You ain't no USA now are you? 

Until then.. cya.. Adios..


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## TalibanSwatter

WASHINGTON POST

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan &#8212; Embarrassed by the Osama bin Laden raid and by a series of insurgent attacks on high-security sites, top Pakistani military officials are increasingly concerned that their ranks are penetrated by Islamists who are aiding militants in a campaign against the state.

Those worries have grown especially acute since the killing of bin Laden less than a mile from a prestigious military academy. This week&#8217;s naval base infiltration by heavily armed insurgents in Karachi &#8212; an attack widely believed to have required inside help &#8212; has only deepened fears, military officials said.

Pakistan&#8217;s army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, who like the civilian government has publicly expressed anger over the secret U.S. raid, was so shaken by the discovery of bin Laden that he told U.S. officials in a recent meeting that his first priority was &#8220;bringing our house in order,&#8221; according to a senior Pakistani intelligence official, citing personal conversations with Kayani.

&#8220;We are under attack, and the attackers are getting highly confidential information about their targets,&#8221; said the official, who, like others, would speak only on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive matter.

Pakistan&#8217;s top military brass claimed to have purged the ranks of Islamists shortly after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Since then, the nation&#8217;s top officials have made repeated public assurances that the armed forces are committed to the fight against extremists and that Pakistan&#8217;s extensive nuclear arsenal is in safe hands.

But U.S. officials have remained unconvinced, and they have repeatedly pressed for a more rigorous campaign by Pakistan to remove elements of the military and intelligence services that are believed to cooperate with militant groups.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, on a previously unannounced visit to Islamabad on Friday, emphasized U.S. demands for greater cooperation in the war against al-Qaeda, the Taliban and other violent Islamist organizations that have taken root in Pakistan. Standing beside Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Clinton said the United States would be looking &#8220;to the government of Pakistan to take decisive steps in the days ahead.&#8221;

It is unclear how authentically committed Kayani and other top military leaders are to cleansing their ranks. U.S. officials and Pakistani analysts say support by the nation&#8217;s top military spy agency for insurgent groups, particularly those that attack in India and Afghanistan, is de facto security policy in Pakistan, not a matter of a few rogue elements.

But Kayani is under profound pressure, both from a domestic population fed up with the constant insurgent attacks and from critics in the U.S. government, who view the bin Laden hideout as the strongest evidence yet that Pakistan is playing a double game.


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## AstanoshKhan

^^^ lol at the above news.
*
SHAHEED AMJAD RAZZAQ (Navy Commando) Martyred in PNS Karachi*

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## Mav3rick

T-Faz said:


> Political Christianity was the reason why Europe fell into the dark ages, there might not be a term for it but its outcome is surely remembered as nothing less than abject negation to the society, thankfully its not as popular as it once was.
> 
> As for political Judaism, it too causes great challenges and problems for the Jews, I am sure you know that the Hasidic Jews are always yapping on about their religion much to the displeasure of others. But they too do not have a lot of power over anything and things are still better.


 
I would not dispute the involvement of politics in Christianity throughout Europe especially during the Tudor dynasty, neither would I dispute the fact that political Judaism is a problem as well as a solution for Jews........*but why are they never mentioned as Christianists or Judiasts or something like that? Why are they always either called terrorists or offenders yet any human with a hint of Islam is called an Islamist!*

Why is a nun respected for covering her body and a Muslim women with hijaab condemned and labelled an extremist? Why is a Jew respected for growing his beard and a Muslim punished for the same? Why is it condemned even to think of speaking about the many ambiguities of the so called holocaust whereas everybody is encouraged to blame Islam and all Muslims for 9/11 and at the same time it is blasphemy to challenge the Official version of 9/11?? Why are there so many ambiguities and different set of rules for different religions and nationalities?

And finally why are non Muslims, or people who pose as Muslims but blame Islam and 'alleged' terrorists for every ill in the world made moderators on the defence forum of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?

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## roadrunner

humanfirst said:


> Dude that theory works for nations and people who plan based on worldly gains,not for those folks who just wanna spank enemies and go to heaven for 72 virgins..For example we can not even imagine some chinese coming to india and killing random people,because they know it is counterproductive to their nation.But in the case of pakistan,there had always been many ajmal kasabs(even in establishment)who gladly do any irrational thing for the sake of some stupid ideology.



If the establishment of Pakistan has some Ajmal Kasabs, why can't the establishment of India have some Colonel Purohits or Bal Thackerays?


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## roadrunner

Mav3rick said:


> I would not dispute the involvement of politics in Christianity throughout Europe especially during the Tudor dynasty, neither would I dispute the fact that political Judaism is a problem as well as a solution for Jews........*but why are they never mentioned as Christianists or Judiasts or something like that? Why are they always either called terrorists or offenders yet any human with a hint of Islam is called an Islamist!*
> 
> Why is a nun respected for covering her body and a Muslim women with hijaab condemned and labelled an extremist? Why is a Jew respected for growing his beard and a Muslim punished for the same? Why is it condemned even to think of speaking about the many ambiguities of the so called holocaust whereas everybody is encouraged to blame Islam and all Muslims for 9/11 and at the same time it is blasphemy to challenge the Official version of 9/11?? Why are there so many ambiguities and different set of rules for different religions and nationalities?


 
propaganda naturally.


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## Bratva

> Intelligence agencies, in raids in Korangi and Shah Faisal Colony, have arrested seven suspects alleged to be members of al-Qaeda for their involvement in the PNS Mehran attack case. Five of the held are of foreign origin. Moreover, arms have also been recovered from their possession.
> 
> *The seven suspects were identified as Hamza Abul Qasim, Javed bin Ziyad bin Tariq, Tahir bin Saleem and Ghansham* besides others, who were immediately moved to an undisclosed location for interrogation. It was also disclosed that the police had taken into custody the car which was under the use of terrorists. Further probe is underway.
> 
> Seven al-Qaeda suspects held in Karachi






> *In another newspaper, the names of suspects were Hamza Abul Qasim, Javed bin Ziyad bin Tariq, Tahir bin Saleem and Ghansham a.k.a Lakshmi, George A.k.a Jhonny
> 
> Nawaiwaqt-Newspaper*





> *In Express News, they claim citing official 7 terrorists were captured during assault and 3 were captured2 days later from Shah faisal colony.
> 
> Daily Express News Story*



these are the highlights of today newspaper, All the major Urdu newspaper, have headings that 2-3 Foreign Hostile agencies are suspected to be involved in this attack


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## Mav3rick

fateh71 said:


> LOL, so you are saying if Pakistan is involved in Mumbai attacks, why not let Pakistan investigate it? LOL
> 
> Buddy, I'm not a shrink and this is no place to fix your state of denial. I know the type, they believe in flying angels but won't believe a flying plane hit WTC.


 
He said if some Pakistani elements are involved then Pakistan should have the authority to investigate, not only to ascertain and confirm involvement of Pakistanis but also to ensure any future attacks are prevented beforehand. India will not allow Pakistan to interrogate Kassab because of some seriously fishy allegations. Besides, is it not a fact that Kassab's statements have changed repeatedly?


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## humanfirst

roadrunner said:


> If the establishment of Pakistan has some Ajmal Kasabs, why can't the establishment of India have some Colonel Purohits or Bal Thackerays?


 
Pakistan have behaved irrationally and embarrassed itself many times doesn't mean india will do so too,even if there is nothing stopping it from doing so.
anyway lets stop speculation and get back to topic..Has anyone been arrested?


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## humanfirst

Mav3rick said:


> said if some Pakistani elements are involved then Pakistan should have the authority to investigate,


 
Not when india suspect those pakistanis were getting isi help.This suspecion is cemented by the fact that pak establishment lied for months(more than enough time for a govt/intelligence agency to confirm a mans identity)that ajmal kasab was not a pakistani-and their lies got torn apart by geo tv which confirmed pakistani identity of ajmal kasab.We have voice samples of terrorists' handlers and why is pakistan not allowing us to match them with those alleged by kasab to be his handlers?..trying to save someone?So no..no pakistani access to kasab for now.


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## roadrunner

humanfirst said:


> Pakistan have behaved irrationally and embarrassed itself many times doesn't mean india will do so too,even if there is nothing stopping it from doing so.
> anyway lets stop speculation and get back to topic..Has anyone been arrested?


 
really? so colonel purohit who was part of the indian establishment did not act irrationally when he tried to blow up trains and claim pakistan had done it?

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## S.M.R

roadrunner said:


> really? so colonel purohit who was part of the indian establishment did not act irrationally when he tried to blow up trains and claim pakistan had done it?


 
Whatever he did was done in his personal capacity

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## KALKI

Every terrorist attack is condemnable but let me be frank and say that this particular attack resulting in the destruction of some of the most important and India-specific assets of PN goes in our favour. The loss of life is always sad but the loss of property in this particular attack is welcome from India's perspective. 

I'm just being frank.


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## humanfirst

roadrunner said:


> really? so colonel purohit who was part of the indian establishment did not act irrationally when he tried to blow up trains and claim pakistan had done it?


 
He was acting irrationally as a person-but indian govt acted rationally by uncovering and publicising his act,humiliating him and putting him behind bars..And compare this to pakistan who purposefully lied about kasab not being pakistani in order to protect his handlers(only to be embarrassed when geo tv traced his family in pakistan).That is an example how rational states behave and how irrational ones behave.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Mav3rick said:


> And finally why are non Muslims, or people who pose as Muslims but blame Islam and 'alleged' terrorists for every ill in the world made moderators on the defence forum of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?



Interesting issue.

Any suggestions?

What is 'posing as Muslim'?

I think it is because the major terrorist attacks the world over, including what is happening in Pakistan, to include innocent Muslims being subjected to bomb attacks, surface Muslims as the source of the attacks.

That is possible the reason.

It does not mean that all Muslims are at fault!

That is where the world goes wrong, but then they are worried and even scared!!

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## Safriz

well yes. this forum has become anti islam lately. not something expected from a pakistani forum.


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## Stealth IFV

roadrunner said:


> correction Stealth IVF.. if anyone is not Canadian you'd be the highest on the list as an Indian with Canadian flags.


 
Whoever doesn't agree with your right wing popular domestic myths, and biased views about the world around you, is an Indian. What an incredibly myopic and anger filled world you guys live in, seriously. You are more Indian than I could ever genetically hope to strive for. I'm proud of my country and English-French heritage. And as my American brother stated earlier, *the majority of Canadians SUPPORT their troops and mission in Afghanistan, but what we don't support is a lack of action on ISAF's part in holding your leaders accountable for harbouring Osama and Haqqani. *We don't support the two-faced American political establishment that gives you billions in weapons, only to have insurgents come across your border and kill our soldiers. No matter what happens, you guys are still in between the cross-hairs and *every move your military and political establishment makes is carefully being watched*, carefully analyzed and there will be befitting answers for everything, judging by all the cases being lodged in the world against your terror supporting intelligence agency, not only in the US but interestingly enough, in Canada as well. Our agencies are starting to catch up, and finding out what you busy beavers have been up to in the past 2 decades. We have a lot of information now on how a terrorist is made, and how terror-centric policies become entrenched in a nation's strategic and diplomatic agenda thanks to ISI operatives getting caught up in criminal courts.

Now let's talk about something constructive, like why are your soldiers and agents suspected of collaborating against your nation, and how does that not give the world the right and prerogative to safeguard your nuclear weapons from being used on innocent people, and foreign nations?


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## Stealth IFV

What guarantees are the Pakistanis giving ISAF and your own constituents that there are absolutely, positively, no rogue elements within your security organizations? Absolutely none. If there are signs pointing to mutiny when such attacks happen, then surely you can understand our point of view in Afghanistan about the Taliban that have a free pass to cross over your border, attack, and retreat back into friendly territory. This is why drone attacks are happening. This is why your border posts are occasionally strafed by ISAF. This is why Navy Seals have to conduct anti-terror operations hundreds of miles inside your border. This is why terrorists have intimate knowledge of your military bases. Until you have answers for these phenomena, stop retorting with "durr hurr you is Indian". I can assure you that the massive global military presence stationed across the border is not Indian, and not happy.


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## Stealth IFV

safriz said:


> well yes. this forum has become anti islam lately. not something expected from a pakistani forum.


 
From what I've been reading, it's anti-extremist in some influential corners (which is why I keep coming back) and this has many of you frothing at the mouth.


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## roadrunner

Stealth IFV said:


> Whoever doesn't agree with your right wing popular domestic myths, and biased views about the world around you, is an Indian. What an incredibly myopic and anger filled world you guys live in, seriously. You are more Indian than I could ever genetically hope to strive for. I'm proud of my country and English-French heritage. And as my American brother stated earlier, *the majority of Canadians SUPPORT their troops and mission in Afghanistan, but what we don't support is a lack of action on ISAF's part in holding your leaders accountable for harbouring Osama and Haqqani. *We don't support the two-faced American political establishment that gives you billions in weapons, only to have insurgents come across your border and kill our soldiers. No matter what happens, you guys are still in between the cross-hairs and *every move your military and political establishment makes is carefully being watched*, carefully analyzed and there will be befitting answers for everything, judging by all the cases being lodged in the world against your terror supporting intelligence agency, not only in the US but interestingly enough, in Canada as well. Our agencies are starting to catch up, and finding out what you busy beavers have been up to in the past 2 decades. We have a lot of information now on how a terrorist is made, and how terror-centric policies become entrenched in a nation's strategic and diplomatic agenda thanks to ISI operatives getting caught up in criminal courts.
> 
> Now let's talk about something constructive, like why are your soldiers and agents suspected of collaborating against your nation, and how does that not give the world the right and prerogative to safeguard your nuclear weapons from being used on innocent people, and foreign nations?


 
this is fairly constructive as you appear in a fair amount of denial. 

since you dont know my genetics and i don't know yours, you can't say how indian i am or not. but we have your internet posts to go on to go on, i'd say with quite a degree of certainty that your of indian heritage, and not "english-french", or whatever other internet fantasy you concoct up. 

now go and prepare another long winded statement to counter the likely denial you're living in


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## Stealth IFV

roadrunner said:


> this is fairly constructive as you appear in a fair amount of denial.
> 
> since you dont know my genetics and i don't know yours, you can't say how indian i am or not. but we have your internet posts to go on to go on, i'd say with quite a degree of certainty that your of indian heritage, and not "english-french", or whatever other internet fantasy you concoct up.
> 
> now go and prepare another long winded statement to counter the likely denial you're living in


 Welcome to my ignore list, all you are worried about is genealogy and not what your security establishment is doing to your sovereignty. Call me what you want, whatever makes you the happiest, Canadians have big hearts. We know how badly Pakistanis are suffering these days.

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## roadrunner

i'm not interested in calling you anything. i barely read much of what you post. i'm just pointing out the obvious humiliation you feel.


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## Stealth IFV

roadrunner said:


> i'm not interested in calling you anything. i barely read much of what you post. i'm just pointing out the obvious humiliation you feel.


 
Yeah, I'm very humiliated. That's why you're hiding your flags, right? Now run along.


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## Respect4Respect01

The walkie talkies used by the terrorist are used by the NATO forces in Afghanistan.



According to the ongoing investigations in the attack on the Pakistan Naval Base Mehran in Karachi, the terrorists were using the LXT 303 walkie talkies made by an American company.


Dunya News received exclusive pictures of the walkie talkies used by the terrorists in the attack.


According to the investigation officer, there walkie talkies are specifically made to be used in military operations. The terrorist had at least three walkie talkie sets which were set one channel through which they were contacting each other.


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## Srinivas

respect4respect01 said:


> The walkie talkies used by the terrorist are used by the NATO forces in Afghanistan.
> 
> 
> 
> According to the ongoing investigations in the attack on the Pakistan Naval Base Mehran in Karachi, the terrorists were using the LXT 303 walkie talkies made by an American company.
> 
> 
> Dunya News received exclusive pictures of the walkie talkies used by the terrorists in the attack.
> 
> 
> According to the investigation officer, there walkie talkies are specifically made to be used in military operations. The terrorist had at least three walkie talkie sets which were set one channel through which they were contacting each other.


 
In afganistan on may 22 6 nato helicopters were destroyed in an airforce base by taliban terrorists.


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## Respect4Respect01

sukhoi_30MKI said:


> In afganistan on may 22 6 nato helicopters were destroyed in an airforce base by taliban terrorists.


 
ok? what are u trying to say lol?


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## Obambam

respect4respect01 said:


> ok? what are u trying to say lol?


 
You have to read it backwards to understand it. I think it says:

Taliban Terrorists destroyed 6 NATO roflcopters in an airforce base on May 22 in Afghanistan.


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## Respect4Respect01

Obambam said:


> You have to read it backwards to understand it. I think it says:
> 
> Taliban Terrorists destroyed 6 NATO roflcopters in an airforce base on May 22 in Afghanistan.


 
i understand , but what is the point of what he just said?

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## Obambam

respect4respect01 said:


> i understand , but what is the point of what he just said?


 
Not sure buddy. Probably somewhere along the lines of they hate NATO so much it is wrong to suggest any form of cooperation between them. Or they stole the walkie talkies from NATO after the attack on the airforce base in Afghanistan? I would love to see him clarify his post himself.

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## nForce

how did the militants get NATO equipments?? Same way they got the Stingers or the same way they got this American Humvee??

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## mughaljee

His point was, 
after destroying the Heli Cop, the took the walkie talkies and now used agains PNS.

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## S.M.R

T-Faz said:


> *PNS Mehran attack: Suspect arrested in Faisalabad​*
> FAISALABAD: Security forces on Friday arrested a suspect from Faisalabad who is believed to be involved in the PNS Mehran attack in Karachi.
> 
> *Express 24/7 correspondent Ejaz Hussain reported that the suspect, known as Qari Qaiser, was living in the Satiana area of Faisalabad and originally hailed from Dera Ghazi Khan. The suspect was reported to be running a Madrassah in DG Khan.*
> 
> Qaiser was traced with the help of a cell-phone that was being used by the terrorists.
> 
> Up to six militants, armed with rocket-propelled grenades, explosives and automatic rifles, had attacked the navy airbase in Karachi on May 22.
> 
> They managed to destroy two P-3C Orion aircraft, costing an estimated $36 million, which had only been delivered by the United States a year ago.
> 
> The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) had claimed the attack on the base, calling it revenge for the killing of al Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden.


 
Very *sad news* for the Pakistani Islamist Phobics, That Qari Qaiser has been released by authorities after interrogation.

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## hembo

*PNS Mehran: 'Air force action could have saved navy assets'*
By Adil Jawad
Published: May 29, 2011

KARACHI: 
Had the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) engaged the attackers from the start, the damage to navy assets and the loss of lives could have been avoided, observed the board of inquiry established to investigate the PNS Mehran attack.


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## hembo

*Access To Airbase: Probe team may quiz foreigners*
By Faraz Khan
Published: May 29, 2011

KARACHI: 
The inquiry committee formed to probe the terrorist attack on the PNS Mehran airbase may question the foreigners, who were present at the base when the terrorists entered, sources said.

So far, they said, the police have not been provided access to the naval base and there have been reports that a coordinator, in this regard, would be arranged. DG PR Irfanul Haq, meanwhile, denied the report while talking to The Express Tribune.

The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Museum on the other hand, has been closed for general public for an indefinite period, sources said. Quoting PAF spokesperson Nadeem Khan, sources told The Express Tribune that the museum has been closed for civilians as the intelligence agencies&#8217; personnel are visiting the museum to conduct an inquiry into the PNS Mehran attack. The PAF spokesman, when contacted, was unavailable for comment as his cell phone was switched off.


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## hembo

*Pakistan Navy braces for a &#8216;wave of attacks&#8217; *
By Salman Siddiqui
Published: May 29, 2011

KARACHI: 
Six days after the deadly PNS Mehran gun and bomb attack, investigators *have made headway by determining the group behind *the attack as a result of which the security agencies are cracking down on suspects throughout the country.

Forensic reports about the nature of explosives and weapons have been submitted to the investigation committee headed by Rear Admiral Tehseenullah Khan.

But amid these developments, the Pakistan Navy remains in a state of high alert as the threat of a new &#8220;wave of attacks&#8221; looms large, senior officials within the force tell The Express Tribune.

Al Qaeda involved

A senior navy official said *it was true that al Qaeda&#8217;s Ilyas Kashmiri group was involved in the attacks*. Security agencies have arrested a number of people throughout the country, including some in* Karachi and Faisalabad from this international terrorist organisation.*

One of them, *Qari Qaiser, is said to have taken orders directly from Kashmiri.* The official says that the truth is that there are many cells within the Ilyas Kashmiri group. Those who were arrested formed just the tip of the iceberg.

He said that the investigations have determined *that al Qaeda militants had indeed managed to infiltrate the ranks of the navy and not only gained sympathisers, but also recruits*. &#8220;We are *still figuring out how many of these militants were in contact with our [navy] people*,&#8221; he said.

The official said that although it was an unfortunate fact that people within their ranks have been found to be linked with extremists, &#8220;the navy too is a part of Pakistani society where extremism is breeding so it was just a matter of time when something like this would happen.&#8221;

*This is not the first time that the navy has arrested extremists within its ranks.* Last year, in March, *around five people from the Pakistan Navy were nabbed and found to be associated with anti-state militant groups*. They were caught before they could stage an attack and remain incarcerated, reportedly in Adiala jail, to this day.

The navy official confirmed last year&#8217;s arrest, *which included junior commissioned officers and sons of officers of navy personnel*. He insisted, however, that it remains to be seen whether last year&#8217;s arrest played a hand in the PNS Mehran case. &#8220;We&#8217;re also looking into possible collusion of these militants with a foreign intelligence agency,&#8221; he added.

The senior navy official said that since the attacks and arrests, the threat to the force had in fact increased manifold. A &#8220;wave of attacks&#8221; could hit not only the navy but also the airforce, army and security installations in the coming days.

Police access

When DIG East Tahir Naveed was asked whether police has been given access to the suspects caught by the agencies, he declined to comment specifically on the issue, saying that the investigation was still on-going. However, he said there was no truth in the reports that police was having a hard time gaining access to not only the suspects caught but also navy personnel who were present at the base at the time of attack. &#8220;We are gathering witness accounts from those present at the base and the people who suffered injuries in the attack unhindered,&#8221; he said.

Forensics

The Federal Investigation Agency&#8217;s mandate has been limited to establishing the forensics aspects of the case, which includes ballistics. When FIA Director Sindh Moazzam Jah was asked whether it was true that the attackers had used M16 rifles, Uzi submachine guns, Russian grenades and rocket launchers, he said, &#8220;This is privileged information and can only be disclosed to the chairman of the probe committee since it can help with tracking down other terrorists connected to the attackers&#8221;. Sources say that the FIA has already submitted its report to the committee.

Bodies in the morgue

The remains of the four PNS Mehran terrorists are still being kept at the Edhi centre&#8217;s morgue. Edhi&#8217;s Anwar Kazmi says that usually they kept unclaimed bodies for three days and buried them in an unmarked grave if no relatives come forward. &#8220;But in this case, we will keep the remains until the authorities tell us to and will dispose them only when we get a letter from the navy and police that we can go ahead and bury them,&#8221; he said.

Published in The Express Tribune, May 29th, 2011.


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## 1 ummah

http://http://ejang.jang.com.pk/5-25-2011/Karachi/pic.asp?picname=1015.gif


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## arthurborges

Tiki Tam Tam,

Your full list of candidates is China, India, Israel, USA and "terrorists".

Given that anti-submarine assets were the target, I would begin by eliminating anyone who had no submarines with a deployed set of sea-to-land missiles.

That leaves India, Israel and the USA.

The next thing to do is to check which has how many submarines in the Indian Ocean right now.


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## khurasaan1

Irfan Baloch said:


> if I look at your statement in Isolation then I agree but sadly I have very bad experience and I tell you why.
> see my sir name?
> think Balochistan and then think BLA
> ring any bells?
> 
> this is a terrorist organisation your country supports something that fugitive bramdagh Bughti so proudly announces in his speeches and interviews&#8230;The BLA & company has a policy of kidnapping and killing foreign workers and have killed many Chinese.
> 
> another case in point is IRA. which was supported by Americans although they claim to be bosom buddies of the British. And they knew it that British intelligence knew who was funding IRA. I can quote many more but that will be taking the debate off topic. Point is, the whole idea and premise of covert operations is never to be found out and use the ambiguity, confusion and lack of evidence to deny any knowledge of such thing. Both Americans and Chinese have their stakes in this issue anyway and
> WE WILL FIND OUT the culprits.
> 
> I hope its not the Indians, I really do because that will really mess up a lot of things. Our peace process is like 1 step forward and 5 steps backwards.
> 
> So&#8230;.
> This all happens my friend, the . state policies are not that simple for us mere mortals to understand what they say and what they do are two different things all together.


 
Yes ure right about the CIA, MI6 and Mosaad role in it .... to destroy on destabilize CHINA....using terrorists....


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## khurasaan1

arthurborges said:


> Tiki Tam Tam,
> 
> Your full list of candidates is China, India, Israel, USA and "terrorists".
> 
> Given that anti-submarine assets were the target, I would begin by eliminating anyone who had no submarines with a deployed set of sea-to-land missiles.
> 
> That leaves India, Israel and the USA.The next thing to do is to check which has how many submarines in the Indian Ocean right now.


 
Yes! very true bro!....

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## Hammy007

innocentboy said:


> Very *sad news* for the Pakistani Islamist Phobics, That Qari Qaiser has been released by authorities after interrogation.


 
this shows, that government is just working with americans to target any people who are related to madressahs or mosques, any religious figure is considered a terrorist, while the real terrorists who caught have been arrested during the attacks will never ever be caught red handed

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## Hammy007

*the investigation ka allah hafiz??????????

the typical government rant of taliban, alquaeda

i think govt and army has already found who are the terrorists, and now they are now protecting their identities*

what now about government rant, pakistan should be united against terrorism, who are the terrorist batao hamain ab saalon, the government takes bribes from terrorists, first stop taking bribe and hen take action aginst real terrorism
*
the government and rehman malik has no guts to name the american and indian terrorists, raymond davis was let free by this same SOB who always rants abt TTP and alquaeda*

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## laiqs@mi

nahhh !!!!!
where these politicians will hide after any coup or Inqalaab in pakistan... they'll run to US of a and other eu contries.... so they are protecting there name and they dont want them to be public.. because public of pakistan hates america very much....


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## arthurborges

huzihaidao12 said:


> First, forget Israel (as a possible player in the attack), they already have enough trouble, do not give yourself an additional big trouble.



This is an assumption.

Israel would consider Pakistan a potential proliferator of nuclear weapons to its immediate enemies and therefore a threat.


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## S.M.R

*FAISALABAD: A suspect, who had been arrested from Faisalabad in connection with the PNS Mehran base attack, has been released after initial investigation.*
Qari Qaiser, 30, hailing from Dera Ghazi Khan, had been picked up in Faisalabad on Friday by intelligence agencies investigating the PNS Mehran base attack. He had been traced via phone calls made to his number from cell phones recovered off the four attackers who were killed while attacking the naval base in Karachi.
Qaiser, who runs a madrassah in Satiana, near Faisalabad, had been taken to an undisclosed location by intelligence agents where he was interrogated about phone calls that he had received.
Qari Qaiser said that he was released on Sunday after unknown men gave him Rs300 for the bus fare home.


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## Respect4Respect01

mughaljee said:


> His point was,
> after destroying the Heli Cop, the took the walkie talkies and now used agains PNS.


 
if he think little more harder, they might be given by NATO itself

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## Solomon2

RAZA SAHI said:


> THE IDEOLOGY THAT IS PREACHED IN THESE MADRASSAS IS SAUDI IMPORTED, AND WILL ULTIMATELY SERVE THE SAUDI INTEREST OR THE ARAB INTEREST. HOW IS THE SAUDI GOVERNMENT NOT COMPLICIT IN THIS CRIME, THE COUNTRY WHICH WE CONSIDER OUR STRATEGIC ALLY, AND A CLOSE FRIEND DOES'NT STOP THE FUNDING OF THESE TERRORIST ENTITIES.


I don't know. What I have heard is that in some ways Saudis consider that _they_ control Pakistan, for when Saudi and Pakistani diplomats are in the same room with Americans the Saudis may enter upon a condescending discussion of domestic Pakistani affairs while the Pakistanis look embarrassed and say nothing.


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## llvllrPaki

Hammy007 said:


> there are some serious questions to be answered
> 
> why they attacked the plane and not people
> 
> how they brought so much ammo esp high teh ammo with them
> 
> why uzbeks attacked the base
> 
> where they did get their training
> 
> if it was an inside job, why he leaked out info, and who was he working for??
> 
> why would any sane taliban cover a long distance to target some navy planes, when those talibs can attack military bases in KP
> were the americans the insiders who helped the outsiders
> 
> why would a military guy just want the destruction of pakistan security just for 'jihad' reasons, i dont see any sanity at all


 
thats what im thinking ,


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## Vassnti

nForce said:


> how did the militants get NATO equipments?? Same way they got the Stingers or the same way they got this American Humvee??


 


> Pakistani reporters in the area said the militants unloaded the Humvees from shipping containers on the backs of the trucks and drove off in them, after decorating them with flags and banners of the banned umbrella organisation Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, which is led by Baitullah Mehsud. Mehsud is closely allied to Osama bin Laden and the Taliban leader Mullah Omar.
> 
> The reporters said the hijackings had taken place "in clear view of (Pakistani) paramilitary personnel" deployed at the nearby Jamrud Fort, who "did not take any action".



Its easy you just drive them off the truck.

US embarrassed as Taliban steal Humvees | The Australian


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## happycanuck

Stealth IFV said:


> You can't dictate to others what to do in their foreign policy, alliances etc. are up to them. There's no way you're Canadian. Not giving a f*** is a hallmark of ours. We prefer everyone comes closer together, Pakistan brings the West close to China. That will create dialogue. Then you will have true peace. If only they would put that to better use. Plus, your post is in the wrong thread.



Thanks foinforming me that I am in the wrong thread. SInce I am a rookie in the forum scene may be you can give me pointers on how to post in the right thread.

I have no reason to mislead any one about my nationality. I have to prove it to the Canadian Border Forces only. When responding to my post try to use non abusive language. Let us all behave as civilised grown up individuals.

My only intention was to draw attention of the forumrites towards many other issues facing the humanity in the world as a whole and South East Asia in particular.


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## mshoaib61



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## Abu Basit

*PNS Mehran Base Attack: Terrorist were using walkie talkies of NATO forces*

*Submitted 19 hrs 21 mins ago *

The walkie talkies used by the terrorist are used by the NATO forces in Afghanistan.

According to the ongoing investigations in the attack on the Pakistan Naval Base Mehran in Karachi, the terrorists were using the LXT 303 walkie talkies made by an American company, Media Reports say.

According to the investigation officer, there walkie talkies were specifically made to be used in military operations. The terrorist had at least three walkie talkie sets which were set one channel through which they were contacting each other, Media Reports added.

PNS Mehran Base Attack: Terrorist were using walkie talkies of NATO forces | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


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## MZUBAIR

mshoaib61 said:


>


 
I think its enough to open up eyes


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## indushek

Aamir Hussain said:


> The importance of the P3C is all about detection on route to a possible target and not about any possible installation. I just do not see the connection between P3C and an "Installation."


 
Yes sir i get the detection part, the reason i said installation was because may be some target close to sea like a nuclear reactor or another base or something else was in my mind. Now what could be the possible target according to you sir??


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## Oldman1

Abu Basit said:


> *PNS Mehran Base Attack: Terrorist were using walkie talkies of NATO forces*
> 
> *Submitted 19 hrs 21 mins ago *
> 
> The walkie talkies used by the terrorist are used by the NATO forces in Afghanistan.
> 
> According to the ongoing investigations in the attack on the Pakistan Naval Base Mehran in Karachi, the terrorists were using the LXT 303 walkie talkies made by an American company, Media Reports say.
> 
> According to the investigation officer, there walkie talkies were specifically made to be used in military operations. The terrorist had at least three walkie talkie sets which were set one channel through which they were contacting each other, Media Reports added.
> 
> PNS Mehran Base Attack: Terrorist were using walkie talkies of NATO forces | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


 

Holy crap that mean it was really terrorists. After all we see lots of Taliban carrying M16s and wear American uniforms.


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## MUHARIB

The News Tribe » PNS Mehran attack: Former SSG commando arrested in Lahore

Sorry if its been already posted!!


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## Vinod2070

MUHARIB said:


> The News Tribe » PNS Mehran attack: Former SSG commando arrested in Lahore
> 
> Sorry if its been already posted!!


 


> The sources said that former commando *Kamran Ahmed Malik and his brother Zaman Malik *were arrested and shifted to an undisclosed location on Friday on the charges of allegedly abetting terrorists who launched audacious attack on Pakistan Naval Station Mehran , killing 10 officials and destroying two US-supplied PC-3 Orian aircrafts.



These look like Punjabi names. So increasingly even Punjabis are becoming part of the Taliban and AQ?


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## WARRANT

Former commando.. so is it end to the Indian hand controversies or do we have to wait for more days?


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## happycanuck

AAtish said:


> Pakistan can have peace in its west but no way there is going to peace with east, there are too many issues, biggest being the (never ever existent) "Akhand Bharat".. thats the base of all problems, has been, Is, and will be.. and Until that mentality is not changed, our east is our enemy.. from our side, until Kashmir issue is sorted, no question of a peace with them..
> 
> read the history if you want to learn more..



I doubt you can have peace in the west either because in 1948 your country attacked independent country of Balochistan and occupied it just the way your brother country of China did to Tibet. I have been reading the history and very well versed in it. I am not going to waste my time on you if you can not visualise the benefits of peacefull co-existence in this world. 

It is not my purpose to accuse others without knowing them individually personally. The future of your nation is in the hands of Pakistani citizen they can either take the path off violence or peacefull development off the humanity in their own land. "What you sow shall you reap".

May tou be blessed with peace and good health.


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## T-Faz

Mav3rick said:


> I would not dispute the involvement of politics in Christianity throughout Europe especially during the Tudor dynasty, neither would I dispute the fact that political Judaism is a problem as well as a solution for Jews........*but why are they never mentioned as Christianists or Judiasts or something like that? Why are they always either called terrorists or offenders yet any human with a hint of Islam is called an Islamist!*



Well for one, there were no such terminologies that were used back then. The problems as a cause of Christianism are not vast enough for the word to be used on a regular basis. There is a word called Christianism but its use is limited because of rare to non existent presence of Christianists.

As for Judaists, its not a popular term as once again, there is no one that can exemplify the term with their actions.

Islamist become famous when men like Osama popularized the term because of their actions that they attributed to Islam.

Its not anyone with a 'hint of Islam' that is an Islamist but those who use Islam for political purposes.

I know it will be difficult for you but try to understand.



> Why is a nun respected for covering her body and a Muslim women with hijaab condemned and labelled an extremist? Why is a Jew respected for growing his beard and a Muslim punished for the same? Why is it condemned even to think of speaking about the many ambiguities of the so called holocaust whereas everybody is encouraged to blame Islam and all Muslims for 9/11 and at the same time it is blasphemy to challenge the Official version of 9/11?? Why are there so many ambiguities and different set of rules for different religions and nationalities?



Well, Hijabi's are respected too, I don't know where you got the idea that they are labelled an extremist or condemned for their attire. There are a number of them and a small amount might have faced discrimination, still a clear majority go on with their lives without any hindrance.

Same goes for bearded men, they do not have more problems than a regular person with a beard. I have also seen Hasidic jews get verbally abused or discriminated against, same goes for a number of other people but you act as if its only Muslim who are being targeted.

In terms of 911, I did not know it was a blasphemy to challenge the official version, a lot of notable people including Americans have doubts about the incident, no one is exactly prosecuted for it, when Ahmedinejad made a remark about it, the majority of representatives sat there to listen to him.

Don't get too emotional, everyone has to face similar levels of scrutiny when members from their group pose a threat, if you can sort out the problem, these 'ambiguities and different set of rules' will vanish very soon.



> And finally why are non Muslims, or people who pose as Muslims but blame Islam and 'alleged' terrorists for every ill in the world made moderators on the defence forum of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan?



Hmmm, interesting question and even more interesting statement.

You feel aggrieved that Muslim are targeted for their attire, their look and their point of view, basically pointing towards general discrimination against Muslims while others get better treatment. On the other hand, you complain that Non Muslims or 'people who pose as Muslims' are given duties that only a Muslim should have because its the 'Islamic Republic of Pakistan'.

You want the same privilege as others in their countries but you can't extend the same to Non Muslims or 'people who pose as Muslims' in your own country. 

I know double standards and hypocrisy runs deep but at least read what you write before making a fool of yourself in front of everyone.

Such emotional outbursts will not get you anywhere and remember, you can label me anything, it won't change a damn thing.

As for my moderator duties, a lot of you would like to see me get demoted, well get a consensus and you can get it done. I would not have a problem with agreeing to get demoted if asked but once again, it won't change a damn thing.

There is no such thing as an alleged terrorist, they are terrorist who carry out these attacks, also its not Islam being blamed but the use of it by real Muslims for Un-Islamic purposes.

As for why this happens to Muslims, they have demeaned their value and their religion through their actions.

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## Chogy

T-Faz, these are interesting points by Mav3rick, commonly made, and often in the West. I'd also like to address them and add to them, if I may...



> Why is a nun respected for covering her body and a Muslim women with hijaab condemned and labelled an extremist?



I don't know ANYBODY who condemns a woman observing hijab. I personally respect conservatism like this in many forms. The objection comes when it is FORCED on people. Give them the choice. We have hundreds of thousands of Muslim women who wear a scarf every day in the U.S.

Here is a great shot of a Muslim TSA agent frisking a nun... we don't discriminate. At least we try not to.








> Why is a Jew respected for growing his beard and a Muslim punished for the same?



You'll find anti-semitism alive and well in the U.S. There is no "bonus" censure to the Muslim man vs. the Jewish man. Both receive bad attention from bigoted idiots. Again, free choice. That is where we differ from Taliban. They INSIST on beards and Burquas, and punish those who do not comply.



> Why is it condemned even to think of speaking about the many ambiguities of the so called holocaust



_I find anti-holocaust laws and legislation to be outrageous_. People should be allowed to question (publicly) ANYTHING. Hopefully, there'll be at least a shred of logic and evidence, though, which is a problem for 9-11 truthers and holocaust deniers. It is fine to question the numbers of the holocaust, but to deny it happened is intellectual foolishness.



> whereas everybody is encouraged to blame Islam and all Muslims for 9/11 and at the same time it is blasphemy to challenge the Official version of 9/11??



Those that blame ALL Muslims for 9-11 are fools and should be censured. Right after 9-11, Bush gave a speech urging calm, DO NOT take anger out on Muslim citizens.

Here is an interesting comparison:

*9-11 catastrophe, 3000+ dead, U.S. in shock *
>> An _Indian _was killed because he looked Muslim. Some Mosques were tagged with spray paint. Otherwise, little reaction

*Florida "Pastor" burns Qur'an, Afghani Mullah incites crowd*
>> A mob storms a U.N. compound in Afghanistan, cuts off two heads and kills 8 more people

While news (and blame) can be annoying, can be false, in general, we don't lash out willy-nilly but do so methodically, after analysis and investigation.

And it's not blasphemy to challenge 9-11, it happens all the time, but the evidence for it happening as described is overwhelming. Same deal with the Abottabad raid. And the moon landings.



> Why are there so many ambiguities and different set of rules for different religions and nationalities?



Can you expand on this a bit? What ambiguities, what rules? Some examples would help. 

Thanks for reading!

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## Roybot

Here's an interesting picture from Pakistan.

Makes you wonder why the bearded, skull capped man is pulled over for random check while everyone else passes by? "Racial" profiling? Not really, its just that his type have been carrying out suicide bombings. Sorta what happens at the airport security.


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## Irfan Baloch

@Chogy
although the post is off topic which was in fact a response but a great post indeed thanks for that
@T-Faz
thanks for your response to my earlier post re continuing investigations, revelations and possible cover ups. You pointed towards inside job, when I pointed at the precise and professional way the attackers executed the operation. I hinted India because Taliban/ Al Qaeda extremists don&#8217;t care about a plane based to operate in the sea against the submarines. Gunship helicopters and fighter planes might have made more sense. 
There have been some blanket arrests but I think its just a smoke screen. Like any department, armed forces also have disciplinary dismissals but that doesn&#8217;t mean that the disgruntled person will go all the way and trouble to blow up planes, he might stalk his senior and hurt him on his way to work. At best go and blow up and attack the officers mess.

I will wait to see if it is proven &#8220;BEYOND&#8221; doubt that there was no foreign assistance, involvement, sponsorship in this attack.

I know the attack on the SSG personal mess after the red mosque operation was also made possible by the inside help but that was the clear and direct tit for tat and symbolic of the terrorists.

This attack on the planes was more strategic and people would need really hard evidence to rule out any foreign entity that saw these planes as a direct threat to its war and peace operations. After this attack and arrests of officers that might have had any involvement in the attack I wont blame Americans and Indians if they question about the safety of our nuclear arsenal.

If the members of public including lawyers, journalists, and civil servants can openly offer prayers of the Al Qaeda head along with open support for OBL / Taliban by the public just for the sake for being anti American then why cant there be some extremist sympathisers within the forces? If they are, they clearly are enemies of the state and deserve to be treated in kind.

By the way I find is very pathetic and disappointing that navy is trying to pass the buck at air force now for their own failure to safeguard their backyard. This was not a first attack on navy and not going to be last but they have been found with their pants down and outdone by a foe which was better trained, equipped and upstaged them from start to finish.

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## sur

Part-2

[video]http://www.youtube.com/v/WoiM66ob9ck&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## happycanuck

AAtish said:


> You sure are not a shrink but you do need to see one.. i'll suggest on ASAP basis..
> 
> Its a "person" you caught (apparently) from Pakistan who (apparently) committed a crime in India (apparently), so why not let Pakistan Investigate the matter?? Why should we take your "word of mouth" on as-it-is basis?? You ain't no USA now are you?
> 
> Until then.. cya.. Adios..


Aatish:
It looks like you are still in a denial mode to this day. What do you guys smoke? 
If a crime is committed in Canada by citizen of a foreign nation than the investigation is done by local authority and not by authorities of persons nationality. 
I hope you will infuture make a more intelligent argument.


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## muse

Within hours, even as the the attack was on going, forum members were largely agreed that the attack hada great deal of help from the inside the armed forces, and that the one thing was for sure, that we the people of Pakistan would never get the truth, that there would be official leaks and rumors to suggest the Indian, the US and the ever green, Israeli hand -- we also were agreed that apologists would begin by asking " just look who stands to gain" and then proceed to highlight the usual suspects -- but the attack has revealed many things kept secret from the Pakistani nation, in particular the high degree of in Islamist infiltration of the armed forces (Syed Saleem Shahzad may have lost his life for revealing the conection between the Navy and Islamist infiltration :

I
*In search of truth *
Shahzad Chaudhry


*Only a few questions may have been answered on Mehran  even that is charitable  and a lot more still remain to be answered*. *I do not think the whole story is yet out on either Abbottabad or on Mehran. Perhaps, in the case of Abbottabad there remains a Watergate moment awaiting a deep throat in the course of time, a Bob Woodward pale, importantly without the threat of being eliminated in such pursuit. Indeed, if there is such a moment, the cover-up till now has been stupendous. Perhaps the dominating question that will stay with us is:* h*ow much did we know, especially on the raid itself? As is now in the public domain, Admiral Mullens early morning call to General Kayani not only confirmed the raid to the general, it showed far deeper concern over the fallout of American transgression on the sensitive issue of sovereignty. Aggressors usually do not indulge in such niceties. There was little we could do about the Abbottabad raid, not in the operational sense, but on a larger strategic plane. It was more of a political moment than a military one: the need to define our position clearly on this war against terror and thus our relationship with the US.*

*Mehran will always remain different  a home issue built around internal responses to internal threats that by now should have become first nature. Why it did not is where the questions lie*. *If indeed there was enough brewing between the Navy and the militants, why this criminal neglect? Was it only a matter of administrative detail on who was to man the watchtowers between the PAF and the Navy? Did it ever come up as an issue? If indeed such was the case of ambiguous domains, it was criminal again for such an issue not to be brought to the fore. The PAF remains reasonably well protected on most sides with its own residential set-ups; the only exposed entity there is the Navy, which has no protection of its backyard or flanks. Did someone fail in assessing the threat? Or, did someone not check someone failing to assess the threat correctly? These questions will have to be answered. Because if there was enough warning and still we chose to fail in hypothesising the threat correctly, that is systemic failure. Sadly, such systemic faultlines run through most of our work culture.
*
Physical and ground security, though much better in current climes, remains perennially eclipsed by the higher calling of the main mission. *The Navys PR department, in an effort to overhaul its negative image following Mehran, issued a picture of a PN Frigate patrolling the seas around Aden as proof of its professional competence. Not that there is any doubt of the Navy being able to fulfil its mission, just that nearer home there are threats that may just unravel the edifice on which we base our capability matrix both in the sense of physical capacity and resolve to stand up to any challenge. An incremental whittling of a presumed capacity is far more brutal than a one-off knock that a service may subsume in the normal run of events. What we lost in Mehran was critical, both in terms of the material as well as perception. That is why it needs urgent introspection and not banal defiance.*

Back to the event and* the larger questions that it posed in serious gaps of coordination between various players. To begin with, why did the Navy insist upon going it alone when the gauntlet had been thrown to them on their territory? Why did they remain hesitant in seeking the Pakistan Armys support which is, whether we like it or not, more attuned to fighting such a menace on the ground? Why did the Air Force not launch a helping pincer from their end of the geographical divide in bringing an early closure to this embarrassment? If the Air Force effort was inadequate for such an undertaking at that point in time, should the army not have been launched as a supporting manoeuvre? The Navy fought it alone, with some help from the Sindh Rangers, and shed priceless blood; we need to save this blood for a larger cause not fritter away resources where complementarity regardless of the colour of uniform will help minimise our losses. Sensitivity to service turf is a known quandary but there are times when we will need to rise above these frivolities.*

*To the next question then, and this I pose to the three regional commanders in the south: was there an immediate meeting of the three that continued till the fracas ended to gauge the nature of the threat and evolve responses in facing up to the challenge? While the troops on the ground grappled with the situation as it presented itself, where and at what level was the strategy being refined and instituted with consistent allocation of more specialised forces and resources to quickly bring the situation under control? Was the CCTV information being fed to a central ops room where the three commanders would have a view of the unfolding drama as indeed the comfort of undisturbed peace to think things through and order actions accordingly? If not, why not? There is still the need to put in place the necessary accompaniments of fighting this menace through joint resource allocation, especially in large vulnerable defence complexes. To begin with, how about placing a company each of army SSGs at all major defence installations under the local commander to develop a hypothesis of threat and prepare with suitable local additions a robust capacity to fight off any such future venture? How about joint user airfields where civil aviation and a service, primarily the Air Force, operate together without gaps in sharing responsibilities?
*
*One is aware of the Achilles heel in this entire gamut of joint operations, and this still is a war of a different kind, seeking integrated responses where such concurrent presence exists. For the common reader this is not an exclusive headache of the Pakistani system alone but of most military systems where hierarchical service structures have sustained. While we do not need a single apex system, we have equally failed to comprehend the joint system of command as a concept. The chairman joint chiefs is the head of a committee, i.e. the joint chiefs committee, without which he essentially remains the head of a secretariat. Only when the three service chiefs convene together as the joint chiefs does he gain relevance. The joint command therefore rightfully belongs to the joint chiefs who must thus, without reservations, convene more than often to grapple with the newer paradigms of both conceiving the 21st century threats as much as to allocate relevant defensive or offensive force to neutralise such threats. When they begin to do so, the subordinate commanders spread all over Pakistan will find it that much easier to coordinate efforts among themselves on a geographical basis to present more credible options in fighting our most impending threats*. *Lets cross this bridge  we are there.*

The writer, while in service, commanded Air Forces Southern Air Command under relatively benign environs

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## Xeric

muse said:


> Back to the event and* the larger questions that it posed in serious gaps of coordination between various players. To begin with, why did the Navy insist upon going it alone when the gauntlet had been thrown to them on their territory? Why did they remain hesitant in seeking the Pakistan Army&#8217;s support which is, whether we like it or not, more attuned to fighting such a menace on the ground? Why did the Air Force not launch a helping pincer from their end of the geographical divide in bringing an early closure to this embarrassment? If the Air Force effort was inadequate for such an undertaking at that point in time, should the army not have been launched as a supporting manoeuvre? The Navy fought it alone, with some help from the Sindh Rangers, and shed priceless blood; we need to save this blood for a larger cause not fritter away resources where complementarity regardless of the colour of uniform will help minimise our losses. Sensitivity to service turf is a known quandary but there are times when we will need to rise above these frivolities.*


Zarar reached the spot within the stipulated time frame. The Navy didnt agree on it's employment, they wanted the _their_ commandos to undertake the operation.

So much for the factual reporting.



> To the next question then, and this I pose to the three regional commanders in the south: was there an immediate meeting of the three that continued till the fracas ended to gauge the nature of the threat and evolve responses in facing up to the challenge? While the troops on the ground grappled with the situation as it presented itself, where and at what level was the strategy being refined and instituted with consistent allocation of more specialised forces and resources to quickly bring the situation under control? Was the CCTV information being fed to a central ops room where the three commanders would have a view of the unfolding drama as indeed the comfort of undisturbed peace to think things through and order actions accordingly? If not, why not? There is still the need to put in place the necessary accompaniments of fighting this menace through joint resource allocation, especially in large vulnerable defence complexes.


i agree.

But then the situation was not as vague as the writer points it out. Coordination was carried out at the highest possible level during the assault, though it may not be termed as an text-book type execution of the same. How do you think Zarar and guys reached the spot?



> *To begin with, how about placing a company each of army SSGs at all major defence installations under the local commander *to develop a hypothesis of threat and prepare with suitable local additions a robust capacity to fight off any such future venture? How about joint user airfields where civil aviation and a service, primarily the Air Force, operate together without gaps in sharing responsibilities?




Sir ji, has retired from PAF, no doubt he has 'high' expectations. The airforce is luxurious, i know that.
To ease it on your nerves:

Airforce






Army





Anywaz, i for one would love to have a SSG Bn in every sensitive installation, but the questions is, can we afford that? Is it possible? Is that what other militaries have done? And most importantly, is that the only answer/option? i would call this action (placement of SSG) as over-doing. SSG are not body guards. Also, a job that can be done by regular forces (immediate protection of a base/cantt etc), must not be given to specialized forces (trained for special ops, CQB, CTC, deep interdiction, recce in depth etc - please bear the fauji terminology). Bases/cantts have worked out quick reaction capabilities post these kinda attacks, so the question should have been regarding the efficiency of such task-forces, rather than suggesting idealized options which are beyond our capability ala fencing the Durand Line, getting rockets to land vertically, having laptop batteries that have uranium as their power source.

On one hand we advocate to down size the military and make it more 'efficient', and if this is how you guys want to do it (converting the entire military into an SSG type force), than i feel sorry for you. BTW, if the writer had known anything about *Light* Commando Battalions, he would never have asked for a complete fringging SSG company to protect our bases. Though LCBs are not necessarily here for the said purpose.

i wish Blain was here.




> *One is aware of the Achilles&#8217; heel in this entire gamut of joint operations, and this still is a war of a different kind, seeking integrated responses where such concurrent presence exists. For the common reader this is not an exclusive headache of the Pakistani system alone but of most military systems where hierarchical service structures have sustained. While we do not need a single apex system, we have equally failed to comprehend the joint system of command as a concept. The chairman joint chiefs is the head of a committee, i.e. the joint chiefs committee, without which he essentially remains the head of a secretariat. Only when the three service chiefs convene together as the joint chiefs does he gain relevance. The joint command therefore rightfully belongs to the joint chiefs who must thus, without reservations, convene more than often to grapple with the newer paradigms of both conceiving the 21st century threats as much as to allocate relevant defensive or offensive force to neutralise such threats. When they begin to do so, the subordinate commanders spread all over Pakistan will find it that much easier to coordinate efforts among themselves on a geographical basis to present more credible options in fighting our most impending threats*. *Let&#8217;s cross this bridge &#8212; we are there.*[/SIZE][/FONT]


i agree in totality.

i suggest, an entity like Disaster Management Authority should be made capable/provided with resources to provide a command center/post for such operations. They should be the first to respond (as regards to a concentrated effort, including Zarars being flown into the zone of ops etc.) AOR should distributed as it is in case of Pulce Thanas, a senior commander (he can be the local Brigade Commander, Base commander, DPO, IG, Commandant FC, a civilian from the DMA, anybody who knows what to do in such situations) within his particular AOR should immediately take charge of the situation - reach the place of attack/office of the DMA etc where he is presented with all the info like the writer suggests - the video feed, the resources at his disposal (Rangers, Pulce, Army, Navy, Airforce, FC, doctor party, 1122, fire brigades, media handling whatever). He shoukd start assessing the sitution and analyse it to form a well thought out and well planned response. He can then task anybody (ranging fron local Police to Zarar Company). Further, the control room and the charge may then be handed over to the next senior upon his arrival/availability. 

Fortunately we do have the resources and the capability, but unfortunately we dont have any SOP to synergize them.

This woukd be like a *SCHEME* (as the Army has Flood Relief Schemes, IS Schemes etc i.e. we have a written SOP entailing very detailed response and action of EVERYBODY, starting from the sweeper till the highest commander, in case floods happen etc), but at the National level. The Schemes include the list of actions that should commence at the onset, it include ph numbers of concerned individuals, Dos and Donts, the sequence of actions, what to do if a senior is not available or is missing and a junior commander has to carry on, in short, it lists all the actions which are self explanatory and can be executed/run/ordered by any Officer, no matter how junior he is, but if he would follow the write up, he would not likely face any major problems during the response.

e.g.
i know when i take over a new appointment and read the Flood Relief Scheme of a particular province/district, then i know that in the months of say, Aug and Sep i must setup a team that would monitor the river flow and rains. i then know that if the rains exceed a particular limit (mentioned in the Scheme) than i must setup a round the clock duty room that should stay updated with the situation as regards to the major rivers. The Scheme tells me the exact point of time i should start contacting the DCO of the district, it also tells me what i should expect out the local police, it also tells me what all assistance i can get from the local population, it also gives me the list schools, BHUs, open spaces that can be used to store releif guuds, it tells me at what point of time the Irrigation Dept should start giving me Situation Reports, now if they dont do it, i have the concerned ph numbers and i can call the chief engineer and tell him to wake up and start doing what he is paid for, and so on and so forth.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

roy_gourav said:


> Here's an interesting picture from Pakistan.
> 
> Makes you wonder why the bearded, skull capped man is pulled over for random check while everyone else passes by? "Racial" profiling? Not really, its just that his type have been carrying out suicide bombings. Sorta what happens at the airport security.


 
LOL....... Do u even know his race? haha

Its just checking........ anybdy can go through it...... Even army officers.


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## T-Faz

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> LOL....... Do u even know his race? haha
> 
> Its just checking........ anybdy can go through it...... Even army officers.


 
Lol, he is making it a race thing, one guy with a beard is stopped and its become a race thing.

He should have stated religious profiling but instead we are accused of being racist.

This is brown on brown crime.


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## macnurv

happycanuck said:


> I doubt you can have peace in the west either because in 1948 your country attacked independent country of Balochistan and occupied it just the way your brother country of China did to Tibet. I have been reading the history and very well versed in it. I am not going to waste my time on you if you can not visualise the benefits of peacefull co-existence in this world.
> 
> It is not my purpose to accuse others without knowing them individually personally. The future of your nation is in the hands of Pakistani citizen they can either take the path off violence or peacefull development off the humanity in their own land. "What you sow shall you reap".
> 
> May tou be blessed with peace and good health.


 
Oh really where exactly have you been reading this HISTORY of yours. Please zip it your hallucinations are not historical facts rather a symptom of mental retardation.
Still cant stop laughing at your claim to be well versed in history hahahahahaha.


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## macnurv

roy_gourav said:


> Here's an interesting picture from Pakistan.
> 
> Makes you wonder why the bearded, skull capped man is pulled over for random check while everyone else passes by? "Racial" profiling? Not really, its just that his type have been carrying out suicide bombings. Sorta what happens at the airport security.


 
Yes really when one starts assuming ridiculous stuff. Your stupid if you think that only bearded fellows carry out suicide attacks. They will check any one and every one and the only ones they usually let go off are women or cars which have women sitting in them. Wrong policy but thats it. Dont assume to much based on a picture.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

i disagree......

in Peshawar i was getting stopped all the time at checkpoints. And I am clean shaven, at the time i was wearing a polo shirt, torn jeans and a Real Madrid cap! Not the appearance of a ''typical'' (if there was such a thing) suicide bomber

in this current environment, ANY vehicle can be pulled over for random checks. It happens in Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar, Karachi and many other cities. And when instructed to pull over, vehicle must pull over.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Solomon2 said:


> I don't know. What I have heard is that in some ways Saudis consider that _they_ control Pakistan, for when Saudi and Pakistani diplomats are in the same room with Americans the Saudis may enter upon a condescending discussion of domestic Pakistani affairs while the Pakistanis look embarrassed and say nothing.


 
Suleyman,

where did you hear or observe this?


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## T-Faz

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Suleyman,
> 
> where did you hear or observe this?


 
He has heard a lot of things over a span of decades.

The real question to ask here is that, when does the Saudi diplomat has to 'service' his American master?

I am sure they send some coward Pakistani as a 'diplomat', any real Pakistani would make sure that the Saudi isn't able to speak for a while if he ever said anything condescendingly in regards to Pakistan.

Another question to ask here is when does the American take the 'Saudi diplomat' to the local 'service' station.


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## pakdefender

happycanuck said:


> I doubt you can have peace in the west either because in 1948 your country attacked independent country of Balochistan and occupied it just the way your brother country of China did to Tibet. I have been reading the history and very well versed in it. I am not going to waste my time on you if you can not visualise the benefits of peacefull co-existence in this world.
> 
> It is not my purpose to accuse others without knowing them individually personally. The future of your nation is in the hands of Pakistani citizen they can either take the path off violence or peacefull development off the humanity in their own land. "What you sow shall you reap".
> 
> May tou be blessed with peace and good health.


 
lol ..you should read up on your own history first , you and your kind stole entire continents from the natives. 
The white-anglo-saxon-protestant cabal is yet to fully reap what you people have sown and reap you will

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## Solomon2

T-Faz said:


> He has heard a lot of things over a span of decades...I am sure they send some coward Pakistani as a 'diplomat', any real Pakistani would make sure that the Saudi isn't able to speak for a while if he ever said anything condescendingly in regards to Pakistan.


Yes, it was a second-hand report I heard from one of the participants. Source added that the Pakistani diplomat predicted ahead of time that this is what would happen but didn't say why he'd have to remain silent.



> The real question to ask here is that, when does the Saudi diplomat has to 'service' his American master?


As the Saudi family holds a large fraction of the U.S. public debt and has mastered the tricky art of legally bribing American officials it is more accurate to assert that we bend over for _them_, rather than the reverse.


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## macnurv

pakdefender said:


> lol ..you should read up on your own history first , you and your kind stole entire continents from the natives.
> The white-anglo-saxon-protestant cabal is yet to fully reap what you people have sown and reap you will


 LOL
That part of history is conveniently lost upon them


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## T-Faz

Solomon2 said:


> Yes, it was a second-hand report I heard from one of the participants. Source added that the Pakistani diplomat predicted ahead of time that this is what would happen but didn't say why he'd have to remain silent.



He remained silent because our current leaders are their slaves, ideologically, financially and in any other capacity that there is. All the people that are appointed from the 70's onwards to positions of power in this country are done so based on their 'Yes, Sir' attitude and meekness. 

Saudi Arabia is an easy problem to solve, what makes the task difficult is their support from the street ruling religious right of our nation.

There was a time when Pakistani's successfully fought against the regressive policies of the Saudi's on the international stage, after this they used the religious parties of Pakistan to take their revenge.



> *In 1948, during a drafting session of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, representatives from Saudi Arabia clashed with Pakistan over Articles 19: freedom to change one&#8217;s religion. The furious Saudi delegate had to listen to Zafrullah Khan describe the Article as consistent with Islam&#8217;s denunciation of compulsion in religion. This Saudi anger (and possibly money) soon found its way into Pakistan's domestic politics. One year after Zafrullah Khan's clash with the Saudis at the UN, a new group called Majlis-e-Ahrar-e-Islam issued a demand that Khan be removed from the cabinet.*



December 2003 News Monitor - Prevent Genocide International



> As the Saudi family holds a large fraction of the U.S. public debt and has mastered the tricky art of legally bribing American officials it is more accurate to assert that we bend over for _them_, rather than the reverse.


 
I am sure you people have a few tricks up your sleeves too, after all you control them, its not the other way round.

I hear blackmail is a resourceful tool and one that has bore many fruits.

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## pakdefender

Solomon2 said:


> Yes, it was a second-hand report I heard from one of the participants. Source added that the Pakistani diplomat predicted ahead of time that this is what would happen but didn't say why he'd have to remain silent.
> 
> As the Saudi family holds a large fraction of the U.S. public debt and has mastered the tricky art of legally bribing American officials it is more accurate to assert that we bend over for _them_, rather than the reverse.


 
Speaking of diplomats and head of states talking about the internal workings of a third stat here is one first hand report direct from the pi..err horse's mouth



> Ariel Sharon:
> "Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it."
> - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001.




Now I know where your loyalties are and just like Ben Gurion never said stuff about Pakistan you'll deny that Sharon ever said this about America.


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## macnurv

T-Faz said:


> He remained silent because our current leaders are their slaves, ideologically, financially and in any other capacity that there is. All the people that are appointed from the 70's onwards to positions of power in this country are done so based on their 'Yes, Sir' attitude and meekness.



Indeed, thanks to Wikileaks now we know that President Asif Ali Beemari urf Zardari actually took permission from Washington before restoring the Chief Justice of Pakistan. Its mind numbing to think how much of slaves the elite of this country are. 



T-Faz said:


> Saudi Arabia is an easy problem to solve, what makes the task difficult is their support from the street ruling religious right of our nation.
> 
> There was a time when Pakistani's successfully fought against the regressive policies of the Saudi's on the international stage, after this they used the religious parties of Pakistan to take their revenge.
> 
> 
> 
> December 2003 News Monitor - Prevent Genocide International
> 
> 
> 
> I am sure you people have a few tricks up your sleeves too, after all you control them, its not the other way round.
> 
> I hear blackmail is a resourceful tool and one that has bore many fruits.


 
Saudi money is fuelling terrorism all across the globe. Its a shame that Pakistanis surrendered their country to every other country, be it Saudis or Americans. Shame.

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## Solomon2

^^^ PD, I could answer that, but how does your comment add to a discussion about the naval base attack, save to serve as a diversion for your frustrations?


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## pakdefender

Solomon2 said:


> ^^^ PD, I could answer that, but how does your comment add to a discussion about the naval base attack, save to serve as a diversion for your frustrations?


 
You brought up Saudi diplomats talking about Pakistan so here we was Israeli head of state talking about America


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## F86 Saber

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> i disagree......
> 
> in Peshawar i was getting stopped all the time at checkpoints. And I am clean shaven, at the time i was wearing a polo shirt, torn jeans and a Real Madrid cap! Not the appearance of a ''typical'' (if there was such a thing) suicide bomber
> 
> in this current environment, ANY vehicle can be pulled over for random checks. It happens in Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar, Karachi and many other cities. And when instructed to pull over, vehicle must pull over.


 
May be one of them was a Barca fan..

By the way i agree with you, and to add a bit more, in Lahore at sensitive places like the airport they even stop and check cars having ladies as well.


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## blain2

*Stay on topic gentlemen!*


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## Abu Zolfiqar

F86 Saber said:


> May be one of them was a Barca fan..
> 
> By the way i agree with you, and to add a bit more, in Lahore at sensitive places like the airport they even stop and check cars having ladies as well.


 
they stop almost every car at Lahore Airport.....and before it used to be they only check to see you have a ticket to show someone is travelling but now they check boot of the car and underneath


desperate times call for desperate measures....the militants clearly have no regard for human lives so airport would be a valid target in their books.




blain2 said:


> *Stay on topic gentlemen!*


 
done


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## Tiger Awan

They never do such thing at Islamabad Airport. I have a beard reffered as "MULLAH STYLE" and have never gone through these checks etc


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## happycanuck

Stealth IFV said:


> You can't dictate to others what to do in their foreign policy, alliances etc. are up to them. There's no way you're Canadian. Not giving a f*** is a hallmark of ours. We prefer everyone comes closer together, Pakistan brings the West close to China. That will create dialogue. Then you will have true peace. If only they would put that to better use. Plus, your post is in the wrong thread.



It was never my intention to dictate hoy your nation conducts its foreign policy. The main message of my forum is to bring the nations of the region closer through economic, cultural, education and exchange of military delegations to put an end to terrorist attatcks in the all the countries so that there can be economic prosperity rather than destruction of public property paid by the tax payer. 

Now you decide which is the better way. If you have any better workable solution let me hear that. 

Best of luck


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## happycanuck

SMC said:


> He's either an Indian with Canadian flag or belongs to tea party of Canada. Either way his opinion as far as war in Afghanistan is concerned is accept by a small minority of Canadians.



What are you tryiing to achieve by questioning my citizenship? It is the future of Pakistan is at stake. Have you taken any poll of the Canadian lately before speaking on their behalf? If you have been listening to the main media in Canada time and again majority of us want to carry on with the mission started after the 2001 WTC attatck. 
There is no tea party as such in Canada. When you have to launch a personal smearing campaign be sure to have hard facts in order to be taken seriously.
My objective was and is to see a peaceful and prosperous countries in your region of the planet. It is a time for Pakistanis and Afgahnistanis to resolve the differences and put an end to individuals who are tearing the countries apart. If one person is killed by anti social elements the whole family pays the price for ever. I have nothing more to add. 
Samajjdar nu isara hi bahut hondahai.
Best of luck and peace to all of you.


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## arthurborges

Solomon2 said:


> I don't know. What I have heard is that in some ways Saudis consider that _they_ control Pakistan, for when Saudi and Pakistani diplomats are in the same room with Americans the Saudis may enter upon a condescending discussion of domestic Pakistani affairs while the Pakistanis look embarrassed and say nothing.



Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it simply rude to correct a fellow Muslim in front of non-Muslims?

Can this simply be a matter of courtesy rather than a reflection of who controls who?


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## arthurborges

happycanuck said:


> What are you tryiing to achieve by questioning my citizenship? It is the future of Pakistan is at stake. Have you taken any poll of the Canadian lately before speaking on their behalf? If you have been listening to the main media in Canada time and again majority of us want to carry on with the mission started after the 2001 WTC attatck.
> There is no tea party as such in Canada. When you have to launch a personal smearing campaign be sure to have hard facts in order to be taken seriously.
> My objective was and is to see a peaceful and prosperous countries in your region of the planet. It is a time for Pakistanis and Afgahnistanis to resolve the differences and put an end to individuals who are tearing the countries apart. If one person is killed by anti social elements the whole family pays the price for ever. I have nothing more to add.
> Samajjdar nu isara hi bahut hondahai.
> Best of luck and peace to all of you.



The "Afgahnistanis" are more usually termed "Afghans".

My take is that the US is using drone strikes and other crossborder operations to erode the credibility of the Government of Pakistan with a view to splitting up the country like it did with the USSR, Sudan, Yugoslavia and elsewhere. It is doing that because China wants an oil pipeline through the country in order to shorten oil supply lines from the Middle East and avoid the chokepoint of Malacca Straits, which the US Navy can easily block. Given that China is the principal challenge to US supremacy, such a chokehold is vital for the USA to secure policy concessions from China. 

In short, if you want peace, then stop the drone strikes and other unauthorized crossborder operations that appear seriously intended to pit one ethnic group against the other.

(With apologies to anyone who thinks I'm stating the obvious.)

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## a. hussain

Guys some questions which I believe need some pondering/ further digging i.e.
1. Why only Orions were attacked? (This qs has been raised many times)
2. Why our navy is silent about any counter measures to cover the losses?
3. Why Indian Navy is so active during the current/ past 1 - 6 months or more in acquiring different sorts of Surface & Under water + Aerial weaponary for itself?
4. Whats the significance of Sir Creek issue? Does it has any related dots to the problems which our intel agencies are to deeply look into/ uncover (if they can)?
5. Why the west is so eagerly investing/ supporting Indian forces incl. Navy esp. during this time? (I know monetary benefits are huge in current economic scenario but are there any other reasons hidden?)

There are other qs. but above are some requiring immedate exploring.

Thanks


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## Ignited Mind

So where has the investigation reached so far?


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## seekers

a. hussain said:


> Guys some questions which I believe need some pondering/ further digging i.e.
> 1. Why only Orions were attacked? (This qs has been raised many times)
> 2. Why our navy is silent about any counter measures to cover the losses?
> 3. Why Indian Navy is so active during the current/ past 1 - 6 months or more in acquiring different sorts of Surface & Under water + Aerial weaponary for itself?
> 4. Whats the significance of Sir Creek issue? Does it has any related dots to the problems which our intel agencies are to deeply look into/ uncover (if they can)?
> 5. Why the west is so eagerly investing/ supporting Indian forces incl. Navy esp. during this time? (I know monetary benefits are huge in current economic scenario but are there any other reasons hidden?)
> 
> There are other qs. but above are some requiring immedate exploring.
> 
> Thanks


 
target was not just orion but orion is enough to target because it works more than powerful explosive( it carry 24 hour flight fuel) . All plane in the que could easily catch fire if the rapid response force not tow away the other planes. if the RRF. not sacrificed their lives to counter terrorist more than 20 min, than next target are foreigner technicians (chinese and american). 
inquiry is going delay because of inside involvement of Navy and air force staff.


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## Hulk

Well who needs enemy when their own military is doing a very good job.


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## muse

*Three suspects arrested near Navy headquarters*
Published: June 14, 2011

The suspects have been shifted to an unknown location for further investigations.

ISLAMABAD: Security forces on Tuesday arrested three suspects from F-8 sector near Navy Headquarters in Islamabad.

According to sources, the suspects were taking pictures of sensitive installations in the area.

*The arrested men have been identified as Saeed Khan, Shehzad Khan and Akhtar Khan. Documents retrieved from them show that they belong to the Ibrahim Khel area of Peshawar*.

Officials have also seized cameras and mobile phones from the three men and they have been shifted to an unknown location for further investigations.

Pakistan Navy had earlier come under attack when a group of between four and six militants besieged PNS Mehran airbase in Karachi for 16 hours and destroyed two P-3C Orion aircraft from the Unites States, crucial for Pakistan&#8217;s maritime surveillance capabilities.

The Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), which is allied to al Qaeda, claimed responsibility for the attack on the base, but many analysts believe they had inside help.

Pakistan has faced a wave of assaults over the last few years, many of them claimed by the TTP and other al Qaeda-linked militant groups.

In October 2009, a small group of militants attacked the Army&#8217;s General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, taking 42 people hostage, including several officers. By the end of the day-long siege, nine gunmen, 11 soldiers and three hostages were dead.

The Taliban have stepped up attacks since the killing of Osama bin Laden in a US raid in Abbottabad.


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## Dr-Sangeen

pakdefender said:


> this guy went to his grave with his wet dreams ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and so will all those who still have his wet dream take it to their graves


 
This "guy" went to his grave fighting like a MAN. Unlike your "men" such as Musharaf that will not even find a place to get buried in his own country. 

Allah may have mercy of Sardar Daud Shaheed and his slain family.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Shaheed???? lol

Get the fack outta here the guy was a bloody twit

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## F-16_Falcon

This is called real diplomacy1 Bravo Pakistan govt!  


US to replace two P-3C Orion aircraft
US to replace two P-3C Orion aircraft | Pakistan | DAWN.COM


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## abdulahad1

I have found a great article on the following site, please read and forward this as much as you can:


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## F86 Saber

Really sorry to say but articles like the ones above are examples of literature used by taliban and their likes to brainash innocent muslims into doing their dirty work for them. The writer of the article above forgot that Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) fought against the people who stopped obeying rules of the state after the death of Hazrat Muhammad (SAW). They were also Muslims. Masjid zarar was demolished becaused kuffar used it to conspire against Muslims so if these northern areas are not obeying rules of the state and are conspiring against Pakistan then Muslim or non Muslim they should be eliminated


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## T-Faz

Dr-Sangeen said:


> This "guy" went to his grave fighting like a MAN. Unlike your "men" such as Musharaf that will not even find a place to get buried in his own country.
> 
> Allah may have mercy of Sardar Daud Shaheed and his slain family.


 
What a "man" he was, sending undertrained "soldiers" to invade foreign lands while he lived off Soviet handouts comfortably in Kabul.

He got what he deserved, he betrayed his own family to gain power and in the process he destroyed Afghanistan.

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## mirage 5000

Dr-Sangeen said:


> This "guy" went to his grave fighting like a MAN. Unlike your "men" such as Musharaf that will not even find a place to get buried in his own country.
> 
> Allah may have mercy of Sardar Daud Shaheed and his slain family.


 
the proud which is originally a shame dear . its not a proud that president fight it will be proud if he handle Afghanistan like mushrraf and no one invade Afghanistan. he has his own fair shear to destroy Afghanistan.


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## mirage 5000

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Shaheed???? lol
> 
> Get the fack outta here the guy was a bloody twit


 
what the hell sir if bibi and bhutto can be shaheed why not he? its our culture to declare shaheed every murdered person .BTW he should read the book secret wars of CIA for understand the truth behind all mess. and book is written by ex.CIA man .


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## abdulahad1

F86 Saber said:


> Really sorry to say but articles like the ones above are examples of literature used by taliban and their likes to brainash innocent muslims into doing their dirty work for them. The writer of the article above forgot that Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) fought against the people who stopped obeying rules of the state after the death of Hazrat Muhammad (SAW). They were also Muslims. Masjid zarar was demolished becaused kuffar used it to conspire against Muslims so if these northern areas are not obeying rules of the state and are conspiring against Pakistan then Muslim or non Muslim they should be eliminated


 
Pakistan cannot be compared with the Islamic State Khilafah that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) established. It was legislated totally under the rules and laws given by Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'Allah and solution of every problem comes only from Islam, there was not a single choice to let the law make by the majority of people, parliament or any other external sources other than Islam.

Many countries including Pakistan like to have and try to impose Democracy which is totally against Islam. Democracy means "Government of the People, Government by the People and Government for the People", which means people have right to make laws and this can be seen in their Parliament where any law can be made by 2/3 of majority which is SHIRK; a very big SIN.

And anyone who takes part and vote to support Democracy are actually being a part of group who make laws, which is equivalent to be stand against and be ALLAH. Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'Allah says in the Quran "Order to be obey is only for ALLAH". (YOUSUF:40)

Foreign policy of Islam is JIHAD which means to change the system of life running on any part of the earth which makes human slaves of human, With the system given by the Creator Almighty Allah who is real Lord of every human kind and HE is only liable to worship. The Islamic State does that JIHAD and because of this we are Muslims now. 

Question is that if Pakistan is an Islamic State then is this it's Foreign Policy to liberate Muslims Lands from KUFAR and free the all mankind whether they are Muslims or Non-Muslims from this evil system which makes human slaves of human?

On the other side the Group which fighting against Muslims in Pakistan is also not doing right as mention in the Hadith of the above article that 'when two Group of Muslims withdraw their sword to attack each other then they all go to Hell'. (Muslim Sharif)

There is a FITNA created today by Americans with their allies countries like India who created many consulates in Afghanistan and send many intruders in appearance of Muslims; who are not Muslims actually (this was indicated when clothes were take off from their dead bodies in Swat and South Waziristan, even in Mehran base many attackers to be found not Muslims when their pants were taken off, this was mention in Nawai Waqt) who give sampathy and weapons to tribes and other Muslims of Northern areas who becomes victim of bomb blasting and drones; to stand and take revenge from Pakistan Army and they created So-Called Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan which has no connection with True Taliban of Afghanistan. 

From this they create bad image of Taliban; Mujahideen who fought against Russia. America feels threat that they may become danger for America and it's citizen so he created 9/11 and called it War Against Terrorism; which is actually war against Islam and Muslims. And now he gives instruction to his "OBEDIENT'S" for his next target which is attack on North Waziristan where True Taliban and other innocent Muslims lives; who never attacks and say any harsh words to Pakistan and it's people and many one know this.

He is also creating differences between Pakistan Army and Civil people to weaken Army by this he can achieve it's other goal to capture Nuclear Weapons by saying that; now Pakistan is unable to take care of it's Weapons.

The thing to do is to understand these conspiracies and don't be played in the hands of clever America or others and unite ourselves on the basis of Islam and create and expand Islamic State like Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) created which was KHILAFAH (CALIPHATE), it was neither Dictatorship nor Democracy. Through which we cannot practice Islam entirely and cannot get Success, Dignity and Honor in this life and the life hereafter which is forever.

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## Pfpilot

Sir, your views are terribly misguided and if you really mean what you just wrote, it is systematic of the problems moderate Pakistanis face in trying to counter the extremism that pervades our nation. How do we reason with those who completely lack perspective on rational thought?

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## abdulahad1

Pfpilot said:


> Sir, your views are terribly misguided and if you really mean what you just wrote, it is systematic of the problems moderate Pakistanis face in trying to counter the extremism that pervades our nation. How do we reason with those who completely lack perspective on rational thought?


 
Brother, Please tell that where this extremism comes from? And I will be thankful to you if you indicate the misguidance that I think and wrote, it will help me to think more and help me to get on the right track. Other important thing is the right solution, what is the solution then?


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## Pfpilot

abdulahad1 said:


> Brother, Please tell that where this extremism comes from? And I will be thankful to you if you indicate the misguidance that I think and wrote, it will help me to think more and help me to get on the right track. Other important thing is the right solution, what is the solution then?


 
See the problem is the implementation of Islamic principles in a political process that should be devoid of an religion. Once religion is part of politics, not only is that religion misused to unite the masses against causes with the mere justification of "god says so", but it marginalizes those who do not believe in that religion.
You have every right to believe as you please, but when that starts to permeate through the government, it is essentially forced upon those that want nothing to do with it.
I personally disagree with the notion that democracy is against Islam, especially when it was hardly up for consideration when Islam was formed...as eras change, as society changes and as we discover more about what is right and wrong, we should have the ability to act upon this new information and not limit ourselves with information, that is upto one's own interpretation at best.
I hope you don't take this offensively, for all I know, I could be totally wrong, but that is the beauty of even a low level democracy, for we all get to voice our opinion.

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## F86 Saber

abdulahad1 said:


> Pakistan cannot be compared with the Islamic State Khilafah that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) established. It was legislated totally under the rules and laws given by Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'Allah and solution of every problem comes only from Islam, there was not a single choice to let the law make by the majority of people, parliament or any other external sources other than Islam.
> 
> Many countries including Pakistan like to have and try to impose Democracy which is totally against Islam. Democracy means "Government of the People, Government by the People and Government for the People", which means people have right to make laws and this can be seen in their Parliament where any law can be made by 2/3 of majority which is SHIRK; a very big SIN.
> 
> And anyone who takes part and vote to support Democracy are actually being a part of group who make laws, which is equivalent to be stand against and be ALLAH. Allah Subhanahu Wa Ta'Allah says in the Quran "Order to be obey is only for ALLAH". (YOUSUF:40)
> 
> Foreign policy of Islam is JIHAD which means to change the system of life running on any part of the earth which makes human slaves of human, With the system given by the Creator Almighty Allah who is real Lord of every human kind and HE is only liable to worship. The Islamic State does that JIHAD and because of this we are Muslims now.
> 
> Question is that if Pakistan is an Islamic State then is this it's Foreign Policy to liberate Muslims Lands from KUFAR and free the all mankind whether they are Muslims or Non-Muslims from this evil system which makes human slaves of human?
> 
> On the other side the Group which fighting against Muslims in Pakistan is also not doing right as mention in the Hadith of the above article that 'when two Group of Muslims withdraw their sword to attack each other then they all go to Hell'. (Muslim Sharif)
> 
> There is a FITNA created today by Americans with their allies countries like India who created many consulates in Afghanistan and send many intruders in appearance of Muslims; who are not Muslims actually (this was indicated when clothes were take off from their dead bodies in Swat and South Waziristan, even in Mehran base many attackers to be found not Muslims when their pants were taken off, this was mention in Nawai Waqt) who give sampathy and weapons to tribes and other Muslims of Northern areas who becomes victim of bomb blasting and drones; to stand and take revenge from Pakistan Army and they created So-Called Tehrik e Taliban Pakistan which has no connection with True Taliban of Afghanistan.
> 
> From this they create bad image of Taliban; Mujahideen who fought against Russia. America feels threat that they may become danger for America and it's citizen so he created 9/11 and called it War Against Terrorism; which is actually war against Islam and Muslims. And now he gives instruction to his "OBEDIENT'S" for his next target which is attack on North Waziristan where True Taliban and other innocent Muslims lives; who never attacks and say any harsh words to Pakistan and it's people and many one know this.
> 
> He is also creating differences between Pakistan Army and Civil people to weaken Army by this he can achieve it's other goal to capture Nuclear Weapons by saying that; now Pakistan is unable to take care of it's Weapons.
> 
> The thing to do is to understand these conspiracies and don't be played in the hands of clever America or others and unite ourselves on the basis of Islam and create and expand Islamic State like Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) created which was KHILAFAH (CALIPHATE), it was neither Dictatorship nor Democracy. Through which we cannot practice Islam entirely and cannot get Success, Dignity and Honor in this life and the life hereafter which is forever.


 
I am not a religious scholar so i cannot present references from Quran and hadith to counter you but i can tell you one thing, Islam does not enforce anything. Now i cannot prove you are wrong in saying Democracy is against Islam but i can tell you this, there are four ways we can take guidance in Islam, The Holy Quran, The Ahdith of Hazrat Muhammad (SAW), Fiqah and Ijtehad and only one of the four are direct instructions from Allah. The Holy Quran has set guidance principles for all mankind but has also left a lot on man to think for himself with the intelligence given to him by Allah. It is written at numerous places in the Holy Quran which is having the mafhoom "rest you are intelligent enough to understand". 
If as you say the foreign policy of Islam is Jihad then why has Allah said that the one who attacks first is cruel?

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## Bratva

Whenever a soldier is inducted in to Pakistan Army. A oath is taken from him and he swore his allegiance to "ALLAH and HIS PROPHET (P.B.U.H)" not to america or Pakistani government. He swore that, This Country is founded on the basis of ISLAM and he will die protecting it at any cost and he will obey his commander. he says all this thing while his hand placed on Quran and sworing to Allah

So tell me guys, What's the difference between taliban and Pak Army Soldiers who both Hold Allegiance to Allah And His Prophet. 

The differnce is found in Islamic History. During the last days of Hazrat Usman and Whole Period Hazrat Ali. When People start rebelling against them. Because they thought that, both these Caliphs were acting against Islamic rulings.

Same logics were used by Kharjis ( A specific term used for rebels at that time) as Taliban used it today. Kharjis hold the same opinion that We should follow strictly Quran and Sunnah and nothing else. The have made interpretations of their own. They Accused Caliph Usman of not following the islamic rules as well as Caliph Ali

The common thing in Taliban and Kharjis. Both rebel against State. As today taliban use arguments that We don't have a pure islamic government, but forgot that, Kharjis Rebel against Pure islamic government because their ideologies were not being followed their interpretations of ISLAM were not impleneted by Caliph of their times. So they rebel against them


Now tell Me, When Pak army soldiers are ordered something, they have to act as they have promised to follow orders and also since the Country they have swore to protect is under danger from Rebels.

What is the ruling of Quran And Sunna in spreading Fitna and Fasad? What rebels do is to spread fitna and fasad and Pak army has every right to root out these Fitna. 

Now hell to those, who says Pak army is Kuffar, did they even know who Pak army swore to?

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## hembo

Navy base attackers seem to be Central Asians: Pakistani daily

Islamabad, June 20 (IANS) The four men who attacked the karachi naval base in May were foreigners, possibly of Central Asian origin, a Pakistani paper said Monday, adding the authorities must probe and lay threadbare the conspiracy and not give it up for lack of leads.

The attack also indicated gaps in security at PNS Mehran base base, which should have been tightened following similar attacks on other armed force establishments by terrorists, the Urdu daily Jang said in an editorial.

"According to police sources, the DNA and forensic reports of the four attackers indicate they were not Pakistani nationals and seem to hail from a Central Asian country like Tajikistan, Turkmenistan or Kazakhstan. They were also related to one another," the editorial said.

Citing the initial probe report, the editorial said it was clear that the attackers were not Pakistani as the Nadra (National Database and Registration Authority) has no records of them.

It said police sources revealed that the forensic data was sent to the Americans, but they also did not have any records on the four men.

The paper said the report seemed to suggest that the lack of leads into the identity of the attackers could slow down efforts to unravel the conspiracy, and the probe would soon taper off.

"When it is necessary to bring out the conspiracy behind the attack and identify the masterminds, the initial report seems to indicate that the reasons and intent behind the attacks may never be known and the incident also remain unsolved like previous such outrages," it said.

"This would be breaking faith with the armed forces who have borne the brunt as well as the people of Pakistan," it said.

The 15-hour siege that began on the night of May 22 at the base led to the death of 14 people, including four terrorists. The terrorists also destroyed the navy's two P-3C Orion maritime surveillance aircraft with rockets.

The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack.


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## S.M.R

*PNS Mehran probe: Ex-Navy commando, brother found innocent, released*

LAHORE: 
A former commando of the Pakistan Navy and his brother, who were earlier picked up for interrogation from Lahore in connection with the PNS Mehran attack, have been released after being declared innocent.
Sources said that intelligence agencies had detained Kamran Ahmed Malik along with his brother Zaman Malik from the Abdullah Engineering Workshop, which the brothers had rented, on May 27 &#8211; five days after the attack occurred in Karachi.
The brothers were released after no evidence was found against them.
Qamaruddin, the brothers&#8217; uncle, confirmed their release and said that at the moment they were not talking about the incident.
He said that at 10 am on May 27, three vehicles carrying 10 people in civilian attire stormed Kamran&#8217;s shop.
He added that one person of the raiding party was in a police uniform, while some were armed with weapons.
Qamaruddin said that the team picked up Kamran and two visitors from the workshop and Zaman from a place nearby.
Sources said that Kamran was court-martialled 10 years ago for assaulting a senior officer. He was subsequently admitted to the Combined Military Hospital and upon release, went on to work as a seller of prize bonds. During his service, Kamran had worked at the PNS Mehran and PNS Iqbal naval bases.
Published in The Express Tribune, June 25th, 2011.


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## Last Hope

*Pakistan Navy has found clues into the involvement of internal elements into the terrorists attack on Pakistan Naval Station (PNS) Mehran.* Navy officials on Wednesday gave in-camera briefing to the National&#8217; Assembly&#8217;s Standing Committee on Defence meeting chaired by its head Azra Afzal. *According to media reports the navy authorities have found clues that suggest the terrorists had internal support to launch the attack*. The navy officials apprised the NA body about the investigation being carried out into terrorists&#8217; attack on PNS Mehran on May 22 that led to killing of 10 officials and destruction of two US-supplied PC-3 Orian aircraft.


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## muse

The navy has finally seen sense (been made to see sense) - it was painfully obvious that the attack was a inside job -- in our threads on the Strategic and Army boards we have argued for the need for reform and a new security paradigm -- we understand that while the old paradigm (India and Jihad) are still persuasive to many, a sense that Islamist infiltration, and here I am not referring to HT but to JI, has become a security threat of unrivaled proportions for the Pakistan armed forces, has made significant gains.

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## sur




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## VCheng

An important update on this thread:

from: Three officials face court-martial over PNS Mehran base attack | DAWN.COM



> KARACHI: *Officials of Pakistan Navy on Monday recommended court-martial for three officers allegedly involved in May 22, 2011 attack on PNS Mehran base in Karachi*, DawnNews reported.
> 
> *An investigation committee was constituted after the attack, which after probing for months has recommended to court-martial Base Commander Raja Tahir, Commander of Mehran Base Israr and Lt-Commander Mohammad Absar.*
> 
> *However, the final decision will be taken by the Navy chief and other high ranked officials after going through details of the committee&#8217;s recommendation.*
> 
> The committee has also recommended stringent security measures at all bases including Mehran air base.
> 
> On May 22, 2011, armed militants stormed into the naval airbase and destroyed three aircraft and killed six military officials. Five militants were also killed during the operation, which was launched by the security forces to liberate the base which was held by the militants for more than 15 hours.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

as the investigation is ongoing, we should expect more soon. . 


it was a sad day, but also an educational one......NEVER AGAIN must such a gross breach take place. Those responsible (the ones that are still alive) will get what's coming to them.

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## Aragorn

*Pakistan Navy court-martials officers after attack*

ISLAMABAD -- A Pakistan navy spokesman says the force has court-martialed three of its officers for "negligence" in connection with a dramatic Taliban attack on a naval base in the southern port city of Karachi last year.

The brazen, 18-hour assault on Naval Station Mehran last May destroyed two U.S.-supplied surveillance aircraft and killed 10 people on the base.

The ability of the militants to penetrate the high-security base led to speculation they may have had inside information or assistance.

Commodore Irfanul Haq told The Associated Press on Tuesday that the three naval officers were punished for their performance, but there was no evidence they were linked to the militants or helped them attack the base. He declined to identify the names or ranks of the officers.

Pakistan Navy court-martials officers after attack - World Wires - MiamiHerald.com

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## Abingdonboy

^^^ fair enough- those in the wrong are getting what they deserve. What is worrying though is that this type of inside job would require th involvment of many more than have been arrested/charged so are they getting away Scott free!!


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## Reichsmarschall

ramu said:


> hand on heart ....
> Do you think Pakistan's weapons are safe ?


yes they are much safe than yours


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