# Chinese Air Force (PLAAF) News & Discussions



## Lankan Ranger

*Chinese Air force (PLAAF) News & Discussions (Strictly)*

The People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is the aviation branch of the PLA, PLAAF currently consists of approximately 330,000 personnel and 2,500+ aircraft of which 1,617 are combat aircraft, making the PLAAF the largest air force in Asia, and the third largest in the world behind the United States Air Force & Russian Air Force.


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## Lankan Ranger

*J-10B Multirole Fighter Aircraft*

The J-10B is a modified variant of the J-10 multirole fighter aircraft, with modifications in airframe and avionics. Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of AVIC began to develop a follow-on variant of its J-10 fighter around 2004/05. 

A J-10B prototype reportedly made its maiden flight in December 2008. Photos of the aircraft began to emerge on the Chinese Internet in March 2009. Once commissioned, the J-10B is likely going to become the standard for later J-10 productions.

*Rampless Inlet
*
The J-10B features a chin-mounted diffuser supersonic inlet (DSI) air inlet. The traditional rectangle-shape air inlet on the J-10 requires a large moveable inlet ramp to generate a rearward leaning oblique shock wave to aid the inlet compression process. The ramp sits at an acute angle to deflect the intake air stream from the longitudinal direction. The air inlets comprises many moving parts, which increases the aircraft&#8217;s weight and radar reflections.

The newly designed rampless inlet, first tested on the FC-1/JF-17 fighter design by Chengdu, employs a one-piece bump at the top of the inlet replacing the movable ramp. This eliminates all moving parts on the inlet, lightening the overall weight and reducing the aircraft&#8217;s radar signature.

*Electro-Optic Targeting System
*
The J-10B has been added with an electronic-optic targeting system (EOTS) commonly found on all fourth-generation Russian fighter aircraft such as Su-27 and MiG-29. 

Placed forward of the cockpit canopy to the right, the system comprises an infrared search and track (IRST) sensor and a laser rangefinder, which can detect enemy targets passively without requiring to turn on the fire-control radar, thus reducing the chance of the aircraft being detected. The EOTS of the J-10B is likely based on a Russian design.

*Tailfin ECM Pod
*
The upper edge of J-10B&#8217;s tailfin is curved, in contrast to the straight-edged tailfin of the J-10. A large fairing is added to the tip of the tailfin to accommodate electronic warfare and countermeasures (EW/ECM) equipment.

*ECM Antenna Array
*
The J-10B has four black antenna arrays attached externally to the fuselage, a larger one on either side of the cockpit and a smaller one on either side of the rear fuselage near the engine nozzle. The specific purpose of these antennas is unknown but they are thought to be for electronic countermeasures purpose.







Jian-10B (J-10B) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com


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## lmjiao

&#203;&#191;&#180;&#248;&#204;&#214;&#194;&#219;&#215;&#168;&#204;&#251;(&#184;&#247;&#192;&#224;&#205;&#188;&#198;&#172;&#190;&#249;&#186;&#207;&#212;&#218;&#177;&#190;&#204;&#249;&#163;&#172;28&#200;&#213;&#184;&#252;&#208;&#194[Page:1] - &#191;&#213;&#190;&#252;&#176;&#230; - &#161;&#186; &#179;&#172;&#188;&#182;&#180;&#243;&#177;&#190;&#211;&#170;&#194;&#219;&#204;&#179; &#161;&#187; &#179;&#172;&#200;&#187;&#206;&#239;&#205;&#226; &#211;&#208;&#200;&#221;&#196;&#203;&#180;&#243; - Super Military Base


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## xiaolz

all the military fans in china.are talking about J20. it's really a big gift for the new year's day.

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## siegecrossbow

xiaolz said:


> all the military fans in china.are talking about J20. it's really a big gift for the new year's day.



Nope. That was only the Christmas present. New Year gift is going to be J-20's first flight.


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## conworldus

siegecrossbow said:


> Nope. That was only the Christmas present. New Year gift is going to be J-20's first flight.



I bet that the J-20 has flown already. It is just that we didn't know about it. Remember that the J-10 flew in 1998 and rumors of its existence started after that?


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## mil-avia



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## Akasa

Does WS-10A have thrust vector?


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## zheng

China has ability to research and develop WS-15 engine 
completely at present

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## no_name

Development process if the J-10 (many pics in link):
[?]???10?? - ?? - ?


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## ChineseTiger1986

zheng said:


> China has ability to research and develop WS-15 engine
> completely at present


 
The rumor said that the prototype of WS-15 would be ready for the flight test in the fall of this year.


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## no_name

I was just browsing the web and found quite similar appearance between Sukhoi Su-15 and J-8.
Also Su-11 looks like mig-21
and Su-27 looks somewhat similar to mig-29


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## mil-avia

AVIC Y-XX (Y-20) and IL-76MD aircrafts :






Link


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## mil-avia

Chinese air force dropping armored ground vehicles :

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## mil-avia

H-6 bomber manoeuvre almost touching ground :


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## mil-avia

Photos of airbase in Gansu province shot from space :

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## below_freezing

Suicidal flying by the H-6 pilots.


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## mil-avia

Cutaway diagrams of WZ-10 helicopter :

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## mil-avia

&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#36557;&#8213;21&#19990;&#32000;&#33322;&#31354;&#25126;&#30053;&#12392;&#12450;&#12472;&#12450;&#12398;&#23433;&#20840;&#20445;&#38556; / China Air Force - 21st Century Asian Security 
(book cover in Japanese) :






Link


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## mil-avia

Su-27 fighters in Wuhu airbase :






Link


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## mil-avia

*Fighter Generations*

The definition of fighter generations has long been subject to debate. However, most agree that the generations break down along these broad lines:



*Generation 1:* Jet propulsion (F-80, German Me 262).

*Generation 2:* Swept wings; range-only radar; infrared missiles (F-86, MiG-15).

*Generation 3:* Supersonic speed; pulse radar; able to shoot at targets beyond visual range (&#8220;Century Series&#8221; fighters such as F-105; F-4; MiG-17; MiG-21).

*Generation 4:* Pulse-doppler radar; high maneuverability; look-down, shoot-down missiles (F-15, F-16, Mirage 2000, MiG-29).

*Generation 4+:* High agility; sensor fusion; reduced signatures (Eurofighter Typhoon, Su-30, advanced versions of F-16 and F/A-18, Rafale).

*Generation 4++:* Active electronically scanned arrays; continued reduced signatures or some &#8220;active&#8221; (waveform canceling) stealth; some supercruise (Su-35, F-15SE).

*Generation 5:* All-aspect stealth with internal weapons, extreme agility, full-sensor fusion, integrated avionics, some or full supercruise (F-22, F-35).

*Potential Generation 6:* extreme stealth; efficient in all flight regimes (subsonic to multi-Mach); possible &#8220;morphing&#8221; capability; smart skins; highly networked; extremely sensitive sensors; optionally manned; directed energy weapons.



Fighter Generations Poster (post # 2170 in another thread) :

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## houshanghai

J11B

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## oct605032048

houshanghai said:


> J11B


 
This is not air force but a navy's plane.


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## houshanghai

no,This plane is navy painting


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## mil-avia

Rear views of HY-6 tanker aircraft :


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## mil-avia

HY-6 and J-8D aircrafts :


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## mil-avia

HY-6 and J-10 aircrafts :






---------- Post added at 07:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 AM ----------

Range of HY-6 tanker aircraft :


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## mil-avia

Top to bottom : Postcards showing F-7M / J-7M fighter, K-8 basic trainer, J-10 fighter, J-11 fighter, JH-7A fighter-bomber and F-8II / J-8II fighter :

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## mil-avia

HD-5 EW/ECM aircraft :






1379 x 802

Link


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## mil-avia

Su-30MKK fighter-bomber side views :







Su-30MKK fighter-bomber bases and range :


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## mil-avia

Major units of PLAAF : 2007 map (947 x 959 pixels):





Foreign source



Major units of PLAAF : 2009 map (1600 x 1268 pixels) :






Foreign source

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## mil-avia

Map of J-10, J-11, JH-7 and J-8II base locations :

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## mil-avia

Map : China's major air-force and naval units :

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## mil-avia

J-10 fighter landing on runway front view :

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## mil-avia

Timeline of China Air Force aircrafts, engines and anti-aircraft missiles deliveries from Russia - years 2000 to 2005 :





Source

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## houshanghai

China PLAAF KJ 2000 AWACS Presentation

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## houshanghai

The Nanchang CJ-6 is an aircraft designed and built in China for use by the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) as a basic trainer.

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## Brotherhood

*China's Jiao-8 jet finishes first live rocket exercise - People's Daily Online* April 20, 2011 





Soldiers of the PLA Air Force prepare for the takeoff of a Jiao-8 jet trainer on April 20, 2011.
*Soldiers of the PLA Air Force prepare for the takeoff of a Jiao-8 jet trainer on April 20, 2011.*

*China's Jiao-8 trainer aircraft successfully fired rocket projectiles on targets on Tuesday for the first time since its deployment in the 1990s.* Zhang Lanrui, senior colonel of the PLA Air Force, said the* Jiao-8 aircraft has not fully utilized its fire control system and assault capability since its deployment. *

*The first live fire test of rocket projectile is important for exploiting the performance of the weapon system of Jiao-8, increasing its long-range and air-to-ground striking ability.*





Solders load rocket projectiles for a Jiao-8 jet trainer on April 20, 2011.





Solders transport rocket projectiles to the apron.





Photo shows a loaded rocket projectile launcher.





Jiao-8 jet trainer fires rocket projectiles on the ground target.





PLA officers read the films recording the striking process.

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## mil-avia

FC-1, J-10, JH-7 and J-8 fighters :


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## mil-avia

Seven fighters : left : J-6, J-7, Q-5, right : J-8, J-8II, Mirage 2000 (French), bottom : F-16A (American) :


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## mil-avia

Chinese-made military aircrafts interactive chart :






950 x 525

Link


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## mil-avia

J-10 fighter in Air Fleet magazine cover :


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## mil-avia

Article about J-10 fighter in page no. 25 of Air Fleet (via Scribd)


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## mil-avia

PLAAF Su-27SK fighter outside AFB :


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## mil-avia

Vortices over wings of J-10 fighter :

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## mil-avia

Map showing air force bases and missile bases with ranges in north-eastern China :

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## mil-avia

J-11 fighter rear views with canopy opened : Link, Link :

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## mil-avia

mil-avia said:


> Cutaway diagrams of WZ-10 helicopter :



With engine :

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## air marshal

*PAF and PLAAF pilots during Exercise "Shaheen-1*

PAF Falcons - PAF-PLAAF undertaking joint Air Exercise - Shaheen-1


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## air marshal



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## mil-avia

Cutaway diagram of WZ-10M helicopter : 800 x 566 :







Same but larger diagram (1024 x 724) available in reply # 32 in this page, press to enlarge there.

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## mil-avia

Canards deflected by J-10 fighter :






Related link (post # 1563)

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## mil-avia

Map showing possible bases for J-10 fighters in south China :


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## houshanghai

the photo that PLAAF j10 pilot took

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## houshanghai



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## houshanghai



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## houshanghai



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## razgriz19

su-30mkk2 injested birds in its both engines! landed safely!

º£º½ËÕ30MKK2Õ½»ú¿ÕÖÐÌØÇé£ºË«·¢Í¬Ê±ÎüÈë·ÉÄñ_¸ßÇåÍ¼¼¯_ÐÂÀËÍø


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## mil-avia

ISAR Target Recognition Based on Non-Linear Manifold Learning (in another thread)

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## houshanghai

WS10A

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## CardSharp

houshanghai said:


> the photo that PLAAF j10 pilot took


 
This is an awesome picture.

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## CallsignAlzaeem

mil-avia said:


> Vortices over wings of J-10 fighter :


 
WOA Amazing.

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## Martian2

Vortices over wings of J-10 fighter

[Note: Thank you to Mil-Avia for the post.]

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## CardSharp

Martian2 said:


> Vortices over wings of J-10 fighter
> 
> [Note: Thank you to Mil-Avia for the post.]


 
heh training to be a graphic artist? Seems like you really like messing around with the photos.


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## Martian2

CardSharp said:


> heh training to be a graphic artist? Seems like you really like messing around with the photos.


 
No. A graphic artist makes changes to the original picture by adding elements. I don't do that.

I strip away the blue filter to help other forum members see the details and improve their analysis. The appearance of the photograph looks different, but I never touch the underlying picture information. The contrast, brightness, and color strength has merely been adjusted; just like on a tv set.

However, the photograph itself has not been changed. In other words, if you make the picture darker and extremely blue, you will have the same original picture. My effort/technique does not work on pictures where the pixels have been interpolated. For those pictures, my effort results in no change.


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## CardSharp

Martian2 said:


> No. I strip away the blue filter to help other forum members see the details and improve their analysis. The appearance of the photograph has changed. The contrast, brightness, and color strength has been adjusted.
> 
> However, the photograph itself has not been changed. In other words, if you make the picture darker and extremely blue, you will have the same original picture.


 
Was just joking

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## mil-avia

*Seventeen variants of J-7 fighter :*

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## houshanghai

L15 NEW PIC

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## houshanghai



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## Broccoli

J-10 with twin-rail missile launchers
Alert 5 » Blog Archive » J-10 with twin-rail missile launchers - Military Aviation News

How come these twin-rails haven't been very popular in PLAAF?

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## houshanghai

j10 Flight Demonstration in Zhuhai Air Show

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## houshanghai

China Test Pilots in Spiraled Flights

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## Broccoli

New J-10B article from Bill Sweetman.
J-10B Gets AESA


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## siegecrossbow

What... he concluded that they were AESA just because it is common sense?


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## Broccoli

I think so.


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## Broccoli

siegecrossbow said:


> What... he concluded that they were AESA just because it is common sense?


 
Sweetman replied to similar question in comment section today.


> I was wondering that too, RSF. I'll have to ask some radar guys at Paris if there's any reason that you can't have an IFF array on an AESA.


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## siegecrossbow

That RSF guys seems to know a lot about the Chinese military. I've followed his comments and it seems that he kept up with his homework regarding the latest developments.


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## houshanghai



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## Brotherhood

*Veteran pilots retire with honors - People's Daily Online* June 22, 2011 







Sun Shengjun (L), a newly-retired pilot examines a parked-up plane during a work handover with a young soldier at a military airport near Chinas South Sea on June 21, 2011. A total of five veteran pilots, who had each served 30 years in the air force earning at least second-rate honors, were honored with a ceremony upon their retirement.. (Xinhua Photo)






Jia Yueneng (L), conducts a work handover with a young soldier at a military airport near Chinas South Sea on June 21, 2011.(Xinhua Photo)






Five newly-retired air force servicemen salute their coworkers at a military airport near China's South Sea on June 21, 2011.(Xinhua Photo)






Five newly-retired air force servicemen hand their flight helmets over to young pilots at a ceremony at a military airport near China's South Sea on June 21, 2011.(Xinhua Photo)

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## houshanghai



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## houshanghai

An update on the L-15 Program.
Hopefully this new L-15 production line would address some of the questions regarding the L-15 Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) program. 

News release from yesterday (here) 

&#20013;&#33322;&#24037;&#19994;L-15&#24635;&#35013;&#33033;&#21160;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#21363;&#23558;&#24320;&#24037;&#24314;&#35774; 2011-06-20 15:22:42 | &#26469;&#28304;&#65306;&#20013;&#22269;&#33322;&#31354;&#25253;

ÖÐº½¹¤ÒµL-15×Ü×°Âö¶¯Éú²úÏß¼´½«¿ª¹¤½¨Éè_¶¯Ì¬_º½¿ÕÍø

&#26412;&#25253;&#35759;&#12288;&#32463;&#36807;&#21069;&#26399;&#32039;&#24352;&#31609;&#22791;&#65292;&#20013;&#33322;&#24037;&#19994;&#27946;&#37117;L15&#39134;&#26426;&#24635;&#35013;&#33033;&#21160;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#23558;&#20110;7&#26376;&#24320;&#24037;&#24314;&#35774;&#65292;&#24182;&#23558;&#24212;&#29992; &#21040;L15&#39134;&#26426; &#23567;&#25209;&#29983;&#20135;&#20013;&#12290;&#20316;&#20026;2011&#24180;&#27946;&#37117;&#21046;&#36896;&#25216;&#26415;&#25391;&#20852;&#24037;&#31243;&#37325;&#28857;&#20219;&#21153;&#20043;&#19968;&#65292; L15&#39134;&#26426;&#24635;&#35013;&#33033;&#21160;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#21487;&#36827;&#19968;&#27493;&#25552;&#21319;&#20135;&#21697;&#36136;&#37327;&#65292;&#25913;&#36827;&#20844;&#21496;&#30340;&#29983;&#20135;&#31649;&#29702;&#27169;&#24335;&#65292;&#20840;&#38754;&#25552;&#21319;&#27946;&#37117;&#30340;&#39134;&#26426;&#21046;&#36896;&#31649; &#29702;&#27700;&#24179; &#12290;

L15&#24635;&#35013;&#33033;&#21160;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#65292;&#25913;&#21464;&#20102;&#20256;&#32479;&#39134;&#26426;&#35013;&#37197;&#27169;&#24335;&#65292;&#20511;&#37492;&#20102;&#33322;&#31354;&#24037;&#19994;&#20869;&#20808;&#36827;&#39640;&#25928;&#30340;&#27969;&#27700;&#32447;&#20316;&#19994;&#26041;&#24335;&#65292;&#20351;&#39134;&#26426; &#20197;&#22266;&#26377; &#30340;&#33410;&#25293;&#31227;&#21160;&#65292;&#25805;&#20316;&#20154;&#21592;&#21017;&#22312;&#22266;&#23450;&#21306;&#22495;&#36827;&#34892;&#35013;&#37197;&#20316;&#19994;&#12290;&#36890;&#36807;&#23545;&#29616;&#26377;&#29983;&#20135;&#36164;&#28304;&#30340;&#21512;&#29702;&#35268;&#21010;&#21644;&#25972;&#21512;&#65292;&#23427;&#21487;&#20197; &#26377;&#25928;&#22320;&#25552;&#39640;&#39134; &#26426;&#24635;&#35013;&#35013;&#37197;&#25928;&#29575;&#12289;&#25913;&#21892;&#20135;&#21697;&#35013;&#37197;&#36136;&#37327;&#65292;&#24182;&#33021;&#38477;&#20302;&#24037;&#20154;&#21171;&#21160;&#24378;&#24230;&#12289;&#25913;&#21892;&#35013;&#37197;&#29616;&#22330;&#25805;&#20316;&#29615;&#22659;&#65292;&#23454;&#29616;&#39134;&#26426;&#20302; &#25104;&#26412;&#12289;&#39640;&#36136;&#37327; &#21644;&#24555;&#36895;&#21709;&#24212;&#21046;&#36896;&#12290;

&#35813;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#24314;&#35774;&#26041;&#26696;&#24050;&#20110;5&#26376;&#36890;&#36807;&#35780;&#23457;&#12290;&#30446;&#21069;&#65292;&#21508;&#39033;&#32452;&#32455;&#12289;&#31649;&#29702;&#12289;&#24314;&#35774;&#24037;&#20316;&#27491;&#22312;&#32039;&#24352;&#31609;&#22791;&#20043;&#20013;&#65292;&#35813;&#32447;&#30340; &#36816;&#34892;&#21487;&#20197;&#23454;&#29616; &#8220;&#19979;&#28216;&#8221;&#35013;&#37197;&#36710;&#38388;&#24102;&#21160;&#8220;&#19978;&#28216;&#8221;&#38646;&#20214;&#29983;&#20135;&#12289;&#21407;&#26448;&#26009;&#31561;&#20379;&#24212;&#37096;&#38376;&#26377;&#25928;&#30340;&#32452;&#32455;&#29983;&#20135;&#65292;&#20351;&#21046;&#36896;&#36807;&#31243;&#20013;&#20986;&#29616;&#30340;&#8220; &#29942;&#39048;&#8221;&#38382;&#39064; &#26174;&#24615;&#21270;&#12290;&#27946;&#37117;&#20844;&#21496;&#36890;&#36807;&#35813;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#24314;&#35774;&#65292;&#21487;&#20197;&#25552;&#39640;&#35013;&#37197;&#25928;&#29575;&#65292;&#25552;&#39640;&#20135;&#33021;&#65292;&#25552;&#21319;&#25209;&#29983;&#20135;&#21644;&#20445;&#38556;&#20135;&#21697;&#35013;&#37197;&#24037; &#33402;&#30340;&#21487;&#38752;&#24615;&#65292; &#23454;&#29616;&#20135;&#21697;&#37197;&#36865;&#27169;&#24335;&#12289;&#35013;&#37197;&#36807;&#31243;&#30340;&#20449;&#24687;&#21270;&#12290; &#65288;&#20313;&#29645;&#22914;&#65289;

Google translation of the above article (sorry for being so laze today) 

AVIC pulse of L-15 assembly production line to be started soon 2011-06-20 15:22:42 | Source: China Aviation News

ÖÐº½¹¤ÒµL-15×Ü×°Âö¶¯Éú²úÏß¼´½«¿ª¹¤½¨Éè_¶¯Ì¬_º½¿ÕÍø

WASHINGTON After intense preparations early, the aircraft industry Hongdu L15 aircraft assembly pulse line will start construction in July, and will be applied to small batch production of the aircraft L15. Honduras in 2011 as a manufacturing technology key tasks of the revitalization projects, L15 aircraft assembly pulse line further enhance product quality, improve the company's production management to raise the overall level of Honduras aircraft manufacturing management.

L15 pulse production line assembly, aircraft assembly to change the traditional model, borrowed from the aviation industry within the advanced and efficient assembly line practices, the inherent rhythm to the aircraft movement, the operator in the fixed area for assembly operations. Existing resources through rational planning and production integration, it can effectively improve the efficiency of aircraft assembly assembly, to improve the quality of product assembly, and can reduce labor intensity and improve the assembly site operating environment of aircraft low-cost, high quality and fast response manufacturing.

The production line construction program was accredited in May. Currently, the organization, management, construction work is being in preparation, the operation of the line can be achieved "downstream" assembly workshop led "upstream" production parts, raw materials supply sector and effective organization of production, the manufacturing process of the " bottleneck "problem of dominance. Honduras through the production line, can improve assembly efficiency, increase capacity, improve batch production and assembly processes to ensure product reliability, and product delivery mode, the assembly process information

link;
China Defense Blog: An update on the L-15 Program.

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## houshanghai



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## Martian2

J-10 Vigorous Dragon





J-10s taking off from runway





J-10s taxiing

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## houshanghai



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## houshanghai

new kj2000 awacs

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## Martian2

New KJ-2000 AWACS

There are at least four KJ-2000s in operation.

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/specia...raft/kj2000.asp

"*The AWACS aircraft designated KJ-2000 made its first flight in November 2003.* Following some extensive flight testing at China Flight Test Establishment (CFTE) in Yanliang, Shaanxi Province and radar system testing at an airbase near Nanjing, Jiangsu Province, *the aircraft entered operational service between 2006~07. A total of four examples (30071, 30072, 30073, and 30074) are being operated by the PLAAF 26th Air Division* based in the eastern Zhejiang province near the Taiwan Strait."

[Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the picture.]

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## houshanghai

PAF send 20men to avic's university for training



&#20013;&#33322;&#24037;&#19994;-&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#39640;&#32423;&#22521;&#35757;&#29677;&#21551;&#21160; 

&#21457;&#34920;&#26085;&#26399;&#65306;2011-06-16
6&#26376;14&#26085;&#65292;&#20013;&#33322;&#22823;&#23398;&#25215;&#21150;&#30340;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#39640;&#32423;&#22521;&#35757;&#29677;&#24320;&#29677;&#20202;&#24335;&#22312;&#20013;&#33322;&#22823;&#23398;&#20030;&#34892;&#12290;&#20013;&#33322;&#24037;&#19994;&#21103;&#24635;&#32463;&#29702;&#12289;&#20013;&#33322;&#22823;&#23398;&#21103;&#26657;&#38271;&#39640;&#24314;&#35774;&#65292;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#39547;&#21326;&#20351;&#39302;&#31354;&#20891;&#27494;&#23448;&#33832;&#23572;&#26364;A.&#24067;&#21704;&#37324;&#19978;&#26657;&#20986;&#24109;&#20102;&#24320;&#29677;&#20202;&#24335;&#12290;

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&#23398;&#21592;&#20195;&#34920;&#20234;&#26684;&#24052;·&#38463;&#21704;&#40664;&#24503;&#20934;&#23558;&#34920;&#31034;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#39134;&#26426;&#21644;&#20854;&#20182;&#38450;&#21153;&#35013;&#22791;&#22240;&#20854;&#20302;&#25104;&#26412;&#12289;&#39640;&#21487;&#38752;&#24615;&#12289;&#26131;&#32500;&#25252;&#24615;&#65292;&#23545;&#24052;&#26041;&#38450;&#21355;&#33021;&#21147;&#30340;&#25552;&#21319;&#36215;&#21040;&#20102;&#38750;&#24120;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#20316;&#29992;&#12290;&#26412;&#27425;&#22521;&#35757;&#19981;&#20165;&#23558;&#22686;&#24378;&#24052;&#31354;&#20891;&#24037;&#31243;&#20154;&#21592;&#22312;&#19968;&#33324;&#24037;&#31243;&#21644;&#31649;&#29702;&#26041;&#38754;&#30340;&#25216;&#26415;&#27700;&#24179;&#65292;&#36824;&#23558;&#23545;&#20182;&#20204;&#25552;&#21319;&#21046;&#36896;&#30740;&#21457;&#25216;&#26415;&#26377;&#25152;&#24110;&#21161;&#12290;

&#39640;&#24314;&#35774;&#22312;&#33268;&#36766;&#20013;&#25351;&#20986;&#65292;&#38271;&#26399;&#20197;&#26469;&#65292;&#20013;&#24052;&#21452;&#26041;&#20849;&#21516;&#33268;&#21147;&#20110;&#21457;&#23637;&#30566;&#37051;&#21451;&#22909;&#19982;&#20114;&#21033;&#21512;&#20316;&#20851;&#31995;&#65292;&#22312;&#32463;&#36152;&#12289;&#37329;&#34701;&#12289;&#25991;&#21270;&#31561;&#22810;&#20010;&#39046;&#22495;&#23637;&#24320;&#21512;&#20316;&#65292;&#24182;&#22312;&#22269;&#38469;&#25919;&#27835;&#12289;&#32463;&#27982;&#12289;&#23433;&#20840;&#23616;&#21183;&#22797;&#26434;&#22810;&#21464;&#30340;&#24418;&#21183;&#19979;&#65292;&#22987;&#32456;&#22362;&#25345;&#24179;&#31561;&#30456;&#24453;&#12289;&#30456;&#20114;&#23562;&#37325;&#12289;&#30495;&#35802;&#20114;&#21161;&#65292;&#26500;&#24314;&#20102;&#20840;&#22825;&#20505;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#20249;&#20276;&#20851;&#31995;&#65292;&#20849;&#21516;&#32937;&#36127;&#21457;&#23637;&#30340;&#20351;&#21629;&#65292;&#20849;&#21516;&#24212;&#23545;&#22269;&#38469;&#20107;&#21153;&#30340;&#25361;&#25112;&#12290;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26159;&#25105;&#22269;&#33322;&#31354;&#20891;&#36152;&#30340;&#25903;&#26609;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#21452;&#26041;&#21512;&#20316;&#24050;&#26377;30&#24180;&#30340;&#21382;&#21490;&#12290;&#22312;&#25972;&#26426;&#20986;&#21475;&#12289;&#25552;&#20379;&#32500;&#25252;&#25152;&#38656;&#30340;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#19982;&#38646;&#22791;&#20214;&#12289;&#25552;&#20379;&#22810;&#31181;&#26426;&#22411;&#30340;&#22320;&#38754;&#21644;&#39134;&#34892;&#27169;&#25311;&#22120;&#12289;&#24314;&#31435;&#22823;&#20462;&#35774;&#26045;&#19982;&#39134;&#26426;&#38646;&#37096;&#20214;&#29983;&#20135;&#32447;&#31561;&#39046;&#22495;&#65292;&#21452;&#26041;&#19968;&#30452;&#20445;&#25345;&#30528;&#32039;&#23494;&#30340;&#21512;&#20316;&#20851;&#31995;&#12290;&#20182;&#24076;&#26395;&#36890;&#36807;&#27492;&#27425;&#20154;&#25165;&#22521;&#35757;&#65292;&#36827;&#19968;&#27493;&#21152;&#24378;&#21452;&#26041;&#21512;&#20316;&#21147;&#24230;&#65292;&#20026;&#23454;&#29616;&#28145;&#23618;&#27425;&#30340;&#20132;&#27969;&#22880;&#23450;&#22522;&#30784;&#12290;

&#25454;&#24713;&#65292;&#27492;&#27425;&#22521;&#35757;&#29677;&#26159;&#25353;&#29031;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#35201;&#27714;&#19987;&#38376;&#24320;&#35774;&#30340;&#12290;&#20316;&#20026;&#25215;&#21150;&#21333;&#20301;&#30340;&#20013;&#33322;&#22823;&#23398;&#21644;&#20013;&#33322;&#25216;&#22312;&#26102;&#38388;&#32039;&#12289;&#20219;&#21153;&#37325;&#30340;&#24773;&#20917;&#19979;&#65292;&#32039;&#23494;&#37197;&#21512;&#12289;&#36890;&#21147;&#21512;&#20316;&#65292;&#22312;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#39547;&#21326;&#20351;&#39302;&#30340;&#22823;&#21147;&#25903;&#25345;&#19982;&#24110;&#21161;&#19979;&#65292;&#20445;&#35777;&#20102;&#27492;&#39033;&#30446;&#39034;&#21033;&#24320;&#23637;&#12290;&#39318;&#25209;&#26469;&#33258;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;20&#20301;&#20248;&#31168;&#20891;&#23448;&#23558;&#36890;&#36807;&#29702;&#35770;&#20132;&#27969;&#20197;&#21450;&#36212;&#20013;&#22269;&#33322;&#31354;&#20225;&#19994;&#12289;&#30740;&#31350;&#38498;&#25152;&#21442;&#35266;&#21644;&#35843;&#30740;&#65292;&#20998;&#20139;&#20013;&#22269;&#33322;&#31354;&#24037;&#19994;&#22312;&#30456;&#20851;&#39046;&#22495;&#30340;&#30693;&#35782;&#21644;&#32463;&#39564;&#65292;&#22686;&#36827;&#23545;&#20013;&#22269;&#33322;&#31354;&#24037;&#19994;&#30340;&#35748;&#35782;&#21644;&#29702;&#35299;&#12290;


¼¯ÍÅÐÂÎÅ

google translate

AVIC - advanced training course launched in Pakistan Air Force 

Date :2011 -06-16 
June 14, the Pakistan Air Force Air University advanced training course hosted the opening ceremony at the Air University. Deputy General Manager of China Aviation Industry, Air Vice-Chancellor in a high building, Embassy of Pakistan Air Force attache, Colonel Salman A. Bukhari attended the opening ceremony. 

Salman A. Bukhari said in his speech, this year marks the 60th anniversary of Sino-Pakistani diplomatic relations between the two countries on the basis of trust in respect to achieve a multi-faceted and mutually beneficial win-win cooperation. Pakistan Air Force, the aircraft industry and in aviation technology for the development of friendship between the two countries made a significant contribution. In the field of military aviation between the two countries had extensive cooperation, the Palestinian side of the existing "Fierce Dragon" project, K8 trainer proud of the project, and look forward to the future to carry out more cooperation projects. He hoped that through this training, the Palestinian side into the Chinese aviation industry participants to understand the development of China's aviation industry, the establishment of closer ties between the two countries. 

Representative of the participants &#20234;&#26684;&#24052;&#38463;&#21704; Brigadier Mohammed said that the Chinese aircraft and other defense equipment because of its low cost, high reliability, easy maintenance, the ability of Pakistan to enhance defense played a very important role. The training will not only enhance the Pakistan Air Force personnel in general engineering and project management skills, they will also help to enhance manufacturing technology development. 

In his speech, pointed out that the high building, a long time, China and Pakistan jointly committed to developing good-neighborly friendship and mutually beneficial cooperation in economy, trade, financial, cultural and other fields to cooperate, and in the international political, economic and security situation in the complex situation, always adhere to the equality, mutual respect, sincere mutual support and build the all-weather strategic partnership to jointly shoulder the mission of development and jointly cope with the challenges of international affairs. Pakistan is the backbone of our national aviation military trade, bilateral cooperation has been 30 years. In the export machine, the engine required to provide maintenance and spare parts, offers a variety of aircraft ground and flight simulators, the establishment of repair facilities and aircraft parts production and other fields, the two sides have maintained a close working relationship. He hoped that through this training, efforts to further strengthen bilateral cooperation for the realization of deep-level exchange basis. 

It is reported that the course is set up in accordance with the special requirements of the Pakistan Air Force. As organizer of the Air University and CATIC in pressing, heavy cases, work closely together, work together in support of Pakistan embassy and help ensure the smooth implementation of this project. The first 20 from Pakistan Air Force officers will be good to go through the theory of exchange and the Chinese aviation enterprises, research institutes and research visits to share China's aviation industry in the relevant fields of knowledge and experience of China's aviation industry to enhance awareness and understanding.

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## no_name

Pic showing composite use percentage of aircraft.






Is ZXX Z-10? what's JX and JXXB (J-11, J11B J-10B)?

Can we say the newest aircraft is the J-20, then it will have around 30% composite in it's airframe. F-22 has about 25%.

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## siegecrossbow

no_name said:


> Pic showing composite use percentage of aircraft.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is ZXX Z-10? what's JX and JXXB (J-11, J11B J-10B)?
> 
> Can we say the newest aircraft is the J-20, then it will have around 30% composite in it's airframe. F-22 has about 25%.


 
J-X is probably J-8 and J-XXB is probably J-11B. As for ZXX it has to be Z10.

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## zon95

F-16 clone ????


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## zon95

hey comrades, please help me with some questions Su-15/21 J-8 and JH-7 I found them too many similarities


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## houshanghai

vietminh said:


> F-16 clone




which part? Wings? Air intakes? Nose and Canopy&#65292;twin-engine.....

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## siegecrossbow

vietminh said:


> hey comrades, please help me with some questions Su-15/21 J-8 and JH-7 I found them too many similarities


 
They all have two wings, two engines, and three sets of landing gears. The most striking similarity that I found was the fact that the wheels on the landing gear were round and fashioned out of rubber.

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## houshanghai

Oh,I forgot about these Vietnamese know very little about the philosophy of aircraft designing

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## zon95

houshanghai said:


> Oh,I forgot about these Vietnamese know very little about the philosophy of aircraft designing


 
yeah yeah I personally claim about that Thanks Comrade 

but we know how to use them effectively in the war  

Are you Okay.......................


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## siegecrossbow

People have no sense of humour these days. Bah...

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## Martian2

J-10 Vigorous Dragon catches the sun's reflection

[Note: Thank you to Marchpole for the picture.]

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## siegecrossbow

Martian2 said:


> J-10 Vigorous Dragon catches the sun's reflection
> 
> [Note: Thank you to Marchpole for the picture.]


 
This one looks like it was done by a professional. Is that the case?


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## Martian2

siegecrossbow said:


> This one looks like it was done by a professional. Is that the case?


 
It looks like professional photography to me as well. If you want to know for certain, ask Marchpole yourself on the other Pakistani forum. I don't know where he obtains his pictures and articles.

I can't provide a link. I'll ask Marchpole on your behalf. I'll let you know as soon as I receive a response.

----------

[message sent]

Hi Marchpole,

On another forum, SiegeCrossbow would like to know whether the photograph was taken by a professional photographer. Thank you in advance.

Best regards,

Martin

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## grey boy 2

*China's Air Force studying new training program for fighter pilots - People's Daily Online* July 14, 2011 

*The Air Force of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) is now studying a new training program for the pilots of its third-generation fighter jets*, according to Air Force headquarters.

*The country's first group of third-generation fighter pilot cadets recently completed their academic studies and military training in an experimental Air Force training program. They are expected to become qualified pilots after more training in Air Force combat unit*s, according to the headquarters.






*Fighter pilots typically go through 10 years of training, including academic study and combat training*. However, *the new training program shortens the period to five to seven years*, according to Wang Yingzhong, president of an Air Force pilot academy responsible for carrying out the experimental program.

*The new program also keeps the trainees in the air more often. Total flying hours have increased by over 42 percent under the new program,* Wang said.

*The new program has allowed the academy to train more pilots at a time, increasing this year's number of graduates by 94.3 percent,* Wang said.

*The new program also adds new graduation criteria for cadets, requiring them to master 10 aerial combat skills in addition to their academic training,* Wang said.

Source: Xinhua

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## Broccoli

What fighter cockpit is this supposed to be? J-10B?

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## Broccoli

No one knows?


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## siegecrossbow

Definitely not that of a J-10 variant. J-10 has three monitors.


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## Broccoli

That's true for the J-10A, but what about J-10B? I don't remember seeing photos of it's cockpit.


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## razgriz19

^^ definetly not J-10A/B or J-11/B.
could be for J-15 carrier version...


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## Broccoli

How can you be so sure?


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## houshanghai

most possible j10b cockpit


















link;??????????_???

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## Cambodia Spirit

Look too simple, the Viet may have an opportunity to laugh at Chinese again!? 

P.S: You know in Vietnam they imported the whole training cockpits from Russia and Euro, they may not have a great number of aircraft this time but they do have some good training equipments.


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## houshanghai

Ant155 said:


> Look too simple, the Viet may have an opportunity to laugh at Chinese again!?
> 
> P.S: You know in Vietnam they imported the whole training cockpits from Russia and Euro, they may not have a great number of aircraft this time but they do have some good training equipments.


 VAF didnt have such a advanced cockpit of any fighter with them like this.
also this thread is not concerned in Vietnamese Air Force
If you drink too much, you might have trouble keeping the normal conversation going.

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## Cambodia Spirit

houshanghai said:


> VAF didnt have such a good cockpit of their fighter like this.
> also this thread is not Vietnamese
> If you drink too much, you might have trouble keeping the normal conversation going.



C'mon be like a man, you can't find someones else whom giving advisement to your Chinese is more honestly than me!? The Viets are laughing at you in every minutes!!!

Your cockpit looks like a children flying spaceship in the parks during 80s, am I not too right!? 

I didn't mention about VAF, I was telling you how your opponent view about yours. Yes, the Viets have more advantaged cockpits than you though, they just don't show to public their best ones but hiding secretly like the cat hide its doodoo!!!  

Your technologies are obsolete, don't exaggerate your might!!!

P.S: hey, I smoke instead!!!


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## houshanghai

L15 domestic flight simulator in paris air show

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## houshanghai

PAF JF17 china-made flight simulator in zhuhai air show

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## houshanghai

chinese 5 gen flight simulator in zhuhai air show

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## houshanghai

Ant155 said:


> C'mon be like a man, you can't find someones else whom giving advisement to your Chinese is more honestly than me!? The Viets are laughing at you in every minutes!!!
> 
> Your cockpit looks like a children flying spaceship in the parks during 80s, am I not too right!?
> 
> I didn't mention about VAF, I was telling you how your opponent view about yours. Yes, the Viets have more advantaged cockpits than you though, they just don't show to public their best ones but hiding secretly like the cat hide its doodoo!!!
> 
> Your technologies are obsolete, don't exaggerate your might!!!
> 
> P.S: hey, I smoke instead!!!


 


C919 cockpit 
















Plz you have a look at these chinese cockpit and flight simulator
so you guy should be satisfied with them now????

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## Cambodia Spirit

Do you make the plane yourself or just a corporation with foreign companies!? 

The Japanese have their self-made planes, for example Mitsubishi regional aircraft:





















Honda has invented some: 
















Vietnamese say the Japanese planes are safer than the Chinese ones!!!

They also claim that Vietnam will corporate with Japan to make a Vietnamese regional plane in 2015!? 

Don't question me so hard, I don't know, I have heard!!!


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## unicorn

*China discloses J-10 fighter jet base to S. Korean defense chief*

China disclosed a J-10 fighter jet base to the visiting South Korean defense minister last week, a defense official in Seoul said Sunday, a move signaling Beijing's intent to further strengthen bilateral defense and military exchanges.

South Korean Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin visited a Chinese air force training base in Changzhou, Jiangsu province, on Saturday, the last day of his three-day visit to China for talks with his Chinese counterpart, Liang Guanglie, the official said.





South Korean Defense Minister Kim Kwan-jin (third from R) visits China's J-10 fighter jet base in Changzhou, south of Beijing, on July 16. (Yonhap)


During his visit to the base, about 200 kilometers south of Beijing, Kim watched the takeoff and landing of a J-10 jet, a China-developed fighter with an operational radius of 1,250 km, before having lunch with Chinese military officers there.After the tour of the base, Minister Kim told reporters that China's J-10 rivals US's F-16 fighter jet with an excellent ceiling capacity per second and short take-off and landing distance.

Liang said during his dinner with Kim on Friday that the J-10 jet base has never disclosed to a foreign country, according to the official.

Kim told South Korean reporters Saturday after the trip to the base that the J-10 is similar to the U.S.-built F-16 fighter, noting that China seems to be pushing for its exports.

On Friday, Kim and Liang reaffirmed their commitment to peace in the region and said they will strengthen their cooperation to maintain stability.

In a joint statement following their talks in Beijing, the ministers said they are "opposed to any provocative behavior that harms the peace and stability of the Korean Peninsula."

Kim's trip was the first to China by a South Korean defense minister in two years and the first since the two deadly North Korean provocations last year.

http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/national/2011/07/17/51/0301000000AEN20110717002700315F.HTML

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## visitant

Ant155 said:


> Look too simple, the Viet may have an opportunity to laugh at Chinese again!?
> 
> P.S: You know in Vietnam they imported the whole training cockpits from Russia and Euro, they may not have a great number of aircraft this time but they do have some good training equipments.


Sorry guys, you are all making yourself a laughingstock, the author mistranslate (purposefully?) this device to "training simulator", it's actually a training simulator for ground maintenance not for pilot. It seems you guys know little about the thing you are talking about.


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## aimarraul

did anyone know the background of these pics,it seems that SAC had done some tests on F-22 model before

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## siegecrossbow

Why are the stabilizers canted inward on the second picture?


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## TOPGUN

China has done a outstanding job on the commerical aircraft congrats.

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## no_name

siegecrossbow said:


> Why are the stabilizers canted inward on the second picture?


 
Second pic is a different aircraft design.

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## siegecrossbow

no_name said:


> Second pic is a different aircraft design.


 
Any idea why there is only one crooked nozzle on the left side of the plane?


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## no_name

dunno, could just be shadow.

The tails are actually jutting out of the wings.


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## houshanghai



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## no_name

aimarraul said:


> did anyone know the background of these pics,it seems that SAC had done some tests on F-22 model before


 
I think this is more than just a wind tunnel test. Notice that they actually made a transparent canopy of the plane with a model seat inside. Normal wind tunnel models will just have the whole aircraft metallic.

Maybe they are making a estimate of it's LO properties based on shaping alone?

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## Martian2

New KJ-200 Shaanxi ZDK-03 rotodome AESA AEW&C (based on Y-8F600 aircraft) and KJ-200 balance-beam AEW&C (based on Y-8 aircraft)





Closer look at new KJ-200 Shaanxi ZDK-03 rotodome AESA AEW&C

[Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the pictures and Aeronaut for the captions.]

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## siegecrossbow

Likely. Did anyone else notice the B-2 wing on the left of the photo?


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## razgriz19

Martian2 said:


> New KJ-200 Shaanxi ZDK-03 rotodome AESA AEW&C (based on Y-8F600 aircraft) and KJ-200 balance-beam AEW&C (based on Y-8 aircraft)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Closer look at new KJ-200 Shaanxi ZDK-03 rotodome AESA AEW&C
> 
> [Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the pictures and Aeronaut for the captions.]


 
all new PW-150B engines by pratt and whitney Canada! =D
produce over 5000 SHP each!

can someone please provide full info on the engines! thanks!


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## houshanghai

razgriz19 said:


> all new PW-150B engines by pratt and whitney Canada! =D
> produce over 5000 SHP each!
> 
> can someone please provide full info on the engines! thanks!


only chinese material
&#36816;&#20843;F600&#22411;&#39134;&#26426;&#37319;&#29992;&#20102;4&#21488;&#21152;&#25343;&#22823;&#26222;&#24800;&#20844;&#21496;&#30340;PW150B&#22411;&#28065;&#26728;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#21450;&#20854;&#37197;&#22871;&#33521;&#22269;&#36947;&#33922;&#20844;&#21496;&#30340;R408&#34746;&#26059;&#26728;&#65307;&#36135;&#36816;&#31995;&#32479;&#21487;&#22312;30&#20998;&#38047;&#20869;&#23454;&#29616;20t&#36135;&#29289;&#30340;&#24555;&#36895;&#35013;&#21368;&#65292;&#39550;&#39542;&#20307;&#21046;&#25913;&#20026;&#20108;&#20154;&#39550;&#39542;&#65307;&#23433;&#35013;&#20197;EFIS&#20026;&#20027;&#30340;&#20808;&#36827;&#32508;&#21512;&#33322;&#34892;&#20202;&#34920;&#26174;&#31034;&#21644;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#21442;&#25968;&#25351;&#31034;&#19982;&#21578;&#35686;&#31995;&#32479;&#65288;EICAS&#65289;&#65292;&#24182;&#37197;&#32622;&#20102;&#20808;&#36827;&#30340;&#36890;&#35759;&#12289;&#38647;&#36798;&#21644;&#23548;&#33322;&#35774;&#22791;&#65292;&#20197;&#21450;&#31354;&#22320;&#21452;&#21521;&#25968;&#25454;&#38142;&#36890;&#35759;&#31995;&#32479;&#65292;&#31354;&#20013;&#20132;&#36890;&#35686;&#25106;&#21644;&#38450;&#25758;&#31995;&#32479;&#65292;&#22686;&#24378;&#22411;&#36817;&#22320;&#21578;&#35686;&#31995;&#32479;&#65292;&#39134;&#34892;&#31649;&#29702;&#31995;&#32479;&#31561;&#35774;&#22791;&#12290;&#37319;&#29992;&#20808;&#36827;&#30340;&#31354;&#35843;&#22686;&#21387;&#31995;&#32479;&#21644;APU&#65292;&#22686;&#24378;&#39134;&#26426;&#30340;&#36866;&#24212;&#24615;&#12290;&#26368;&#22823;&#21830;&#36733;20t&#65292;&#36135;&#33329;&#23481;&#31215;170m3&#65292;&#36135;&#33329;&#38271;&#24230;18m&#65307;&#20391;&#24320;&#24335;&#36135;&#33329;&#22823;&#38376;&#65292;&#19982;&#26426;&#22330;&#36890;&#29992;&#30340;&#38598;&#35013;&#36135;&#29289;&#35013;&#21368;&#35774;&#22791;&#20860;&#23481;&#65292;&#21487;&#35013;&#36733;5&#22359;125"DangerCode;96"&#38598;&#35013;&#26495;&#65288;&#31665;&#65289;&#65292;&#25110;&#35013;&#36733;7&#22359;108"DangerCode;88"&#38598;&#35013;&#26495;&#65288;&#31665;&#65289;&#65292;&#35013;&#21368;&#26102;&#38388;&#19981;&#22823;&#20110;30&#20998;&#38047;&#12290; &#12288;&#12288;&#26368;&#22823;&#36215;&#39134;&#37325;&#37327; 65&#21544; &#12288;&#12288;&#26368;&#22823;&#30528;&#38470;&#37325;&#37327; 65&#21544; &#12288;&#12288;&#31354;&#26426;&#37325;&#37327; 33.5&#21544; &#12288;&#12288;&#26368;&#22823;&#21830;&#36733; 20&#21544; &#12288;&#12288;&#28385;&#27833;&#33322;&#31243; 4500&#20844;&#37324; &#12288;&#12288;&#26368;&#22823;&#21830;&#36733;&#33322;&#31243; 2000&#20844;&#37324; &#12288;&#12288;&#24033;&#33322;&#39640;&#24230; 8000&#31859; &#12288;&#12288;&#24033;&#33322;&#36895;&#24230; 600&#20844;&#37324;/&#23567;&#26102; &#12288;&#12288;&#36135;&#33329;&#38271;&#24230; 18&#31859; &#12288;&#12288;&#36215;&#39134;&#22330;&#38271;&#65288;G=65t&#12289;H=0m&#12289;ISA&#65289; 1540&#31859; &#12288;&#12288;&#30528;&#38470;&#22330;&#38271;&#65288;G=58t&#12289;H=0m&#12289;ISA&#65289; 1510&#31859;

google...... 
I am too lazy and poor english too&#65306;
The eight F600 type of aircraft used four sets of Canadian thrust PW150B GuoJiang type engines and supporting Britain's way of R408 propeller company; Freight system can be 30 minutes to realize the rapid loading and unloading of 20 tons goods, driving system to two people driving; EFIS installation for mainly instrument shows and advanced comprehensive sailing instructions and alarm system engine parameters (EICAS) and the allocation of advanced communications, radar and navigation equipment, and open communication system, two-way data chain air traffic alerts and anti-collision system, enhanced the ground proximity warning systems, flight management systems and other equipment. The use of advanced air conditioning pressurization system, strengthen the APU and the adaptability of the plane. The biggest ShangZai 20 t, cargo volume 170 m3, cargo hold 18 m length; The cargo compartment door open, and airport general set cargo loading and unloading equipment compatible, carry the five pieces of 125 "DangerCode; 96" containers board (box), or loading seven pieces of 108 "DangerCode; 88" containers board (box), loading and unloading time is not more than 30 minutes. Maximum take-off weight 65 tons of maximum landing weights 65 tons of empty weight of 33.5 tons of biggest machine ShangZai 20 tons of oil full range is 4500 km ShangZai maximum range is 2000 km cruising altitude 8000 m cruising speed is 600 km/hour cargo hold 18 meters long length off (G = 65 t, H = 0 m, ISA) 1540 m landing field (G = 58 t, H = 0 m, ISA) 1510 m

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## aimarraul

many different people claimed they had seen a J10B with TH engine at CAC's airport these days ,it will be a major breakthrough for china's aviation if the information is true,hopefully some warrior will bring US more clear pics in the next few day

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## zon95

The best fighter in the world 











Number of aircraft that have been deleted when uploading. 





J-10 crashed in 2007 in Guilin by sudden engine stall.


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## S10

vietminh said:


> The best fighter in the world
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Number of aircraft that have been deleted when uploading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-10 crashed in 2007 in Guilin by sudden engine stall.







Here is a F-22, the only operational 5th generation fighter in the world.

Crashes are part of the costs of operating a capable air force, same with USAF. Although I suspect it's not something Viets would know anything about.

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## oct605032048

Since when did people in vietnam afford internet and DCs?

---------- Post added at 05:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 AM ----------




oct605032048 said:


> Since when did people in vietnam afford internet and DCs?



No offence just curious.


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## ChineseLuver

@Vietminh

Hey Weirdo! if you want to post disgusting stuff,pls. dont do it in a sticky thread! (This is not a Viet forum)


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## zon95

oh I'm only interested in T-50 



S10 said:


> Here is a F-22, the only operational 5th generation fighter in the world.
> 
> Crashes are part of the costs of operating a capable air force, same with USAF. Although I suspect it's not something Viets would know anything about.




---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:13 PM ----------

but the disgusting things that the Chinese 



ChineseLuver said:


> @Vietminh
> 
> Hey Weirdo! if you want to post disgusting stuff,pls. dont do it in a sticky thread! (This is not a Viet forum)


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## Broccoli

Good J-10B footage. 
J10B with WS10 landing video.flv - YouTube

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## houshanghai

J11

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## houshanghai

*J10*








---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 01:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:14 PM ----------







---------- Post added at 01:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------

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## houshanghai



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## Broccoli



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## Broccoli

Anyone knows how much composite materials are used in J-10?


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## Broccoli

[HD] J10B PT 05 was being tested (2011 .914) - YouTube

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## Broccoli




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## Manticore




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## no_name

^^^ The F-4 is from the recent exercise with Turkey?


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## Manticore

yes ...................


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## unicorn

Russian sales of AL-31 jet engines to China have surpassed a thousand, with the addition of several new orders this year. This is because China wants to expand its fleet of modern jet fighters (J-10 and J-11), and keep pilots in the air often enough to develop and maintain combat skills. That wears out engines fasr. Another reason for the continued orders is persistent Chinese difficulties in developing jet engine manufacturing capabilities. China has been especially keen on freeing itself from dependence on Russian high-performance jet engines for its top-line jet fighters. That has not been happening.

With an increase in orders from the Russian Air Force, the Russian manufacturer of the AL-31 had had to boost production this year by over a third. The Russians also appear confident that the Chinese are not going to solve their engine manufacturing problems any time soon. This can be seen in how China openly (and unsuccessfully) protested restrictions Russia on the use of AL-31FN engines. Russia wants guarantees that the AL-31FNs will only be used to power Chinese warplanes, and that none of them will be disassembled to assist Chinese engineers in perfecting the illegal Chinese clone of the AL-31FN, the WS-10A. China has been stealing Russian military tech for years, especially since the end of the Cold War. Back then, Russia could no longer afford to buy new military gear, and it was only orders from China and India that kept many Russian defense firms in business. With many more orders from the Russian military, the Russian manufacturers feel able to play hardball with China.

And then there's the problem with China not wanting to admit that its own engine development efforts have consistently come up short. For example, last year, China revealed that it was replacing the engines in its J-10 fighter, installing Chinese made WS-10A in place of the Russian made AL-31FN. But this year, China has ordered several hundred more AL-31FNs, to be delivered over the next two years. No more talk of using the WS-10A on a large scale.

The Chinese claim the WS-10A is superior to the AL-31F, even though the WS-10A copied a lot of the Russian technology. The Chinese say they have improved on that. But those improvements were often things the Russians already had in the works, like increasing the basic AL-31 lifetime from 900 to 1,500 hours, and, most recently, 2,000 hours. But the Chinese have failed to master some of the basic manufacturing techniques for high-performance jet engines. The reality is that the WS-10As has some serious, and unpredictable, reliability problems, which are becoming obvious.

China believes it will be free from dependence on Russia for military jet engines within the next five years, which implies that Chinese engine manufacturers still have a way to go. For years, China has imported two Russian engines, the $3.5 million AL-31, and the $2.5 million RD-93 (a version of the MiG-29's RD-33) for the JF-17 (an F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan.) But in the meantime, Chinese engineers thought they had managed to master the manufacturing techniques needed to make a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31 engine. This Chinese copy, the WS-10A, is part of a program that has also developed the WS-13, to replace the RD-93 as well. While the Chinese have been able to build engines that are durable, they are still having problems with reliability, and that's a killer with fighter jet engines, where failure in combat can be fatal.

China has long copied foreign technology, not always successfully. But in the last decade, China has poured much money into developing a jet engine manufacturing capability. The Chinese encountered many of the same problems the Russians did in the beginning. Developing the necessary engine design and construction skills is difficult. But China has several advantages. First, they knew of the mistakes the Russians had made, and so were able to avoid many of them. Then there was the fact that China had better access to Western manufacturing technology (both legally and illegally). Finally, China was, unlike the Soviets, able to develop their engine manufacturing capabilities in a market economy. This was much more efficient than the command economy that the Soviets were saddled with for seven decades. The Chinese consider the J-10 and WS-10A part of the learning process, and they do learn from their mistakes. But jet engines for commercial aircraft are less difficult to develop than those needed for combat aircraft, and China is encountering more problems than they expected.


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## Manticore




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## Broccoli

Fresh J-10's not sure if they A's or B's.


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## Broccoli

New WS-10.

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## rcrmj

unicorn said:


> Russian sales of AL-31 jet engines to China have surpassed a thousand, with the addition of several new orders this year. This is because China wants to expand its fleet of modern jet fighters (J-10 and J-11), and keep pilots in the air often enough to develop and maintain combat skills. That wears out engines fasr. Another reason for the continued orders is persistent Chinese difficulties in developing jet engine manufacturing capabilities. China has been especially keen on freeing itself from dependence on Russian high-performance jet engines for its top-line jet fighters. That has not been happening.
> 
> With an increase in orders from the Russian Air Force, the Russian manufacturer of the AL-31 had had to boost production this year by over a third. The Russians also appear confident that the Chinese are not going to solve their engine manufacturing problems any time soon. This can be seen in how China openly (and unsuccessfully) protested restrictions Russia on the use of AL-31FN engines. Russia wants guarantees that the AL-31FNs will only be used to power Chinese warplanes, and that none of them will be disassembled to assist Chinese engineers in perfecting the illegal Chinese clone of the AL-31FN, the WS-10A. China has been stealing Russian military tech for years, especially since the end of the Cold War. Back then, Russia could no longer afford to buy new military gear, and it was only orders from China and India that kept many Russian defense firms in business. With many more orders from the Russian military, the Russian manufacturers feel able to play hardball with China.
> 
> And then there's the problem with China not wanting to admit that its own engine development efforts have consistently come up short. For example, last year, China revealed that it was replacing the engines in its J-10 fighter, installing Chinese made WS-10A in place of the Russian made AL-31FN. But this year, China has ordered several hundred more AL-31FNs, to be delivered over the next two years. No more talk of using the WS-10A on a large scale.
> 
> The Chinese claim the WS-10A is superior to the AL-31F, even though the WS-10A copied a lot of the Russian technology. The Chinese say they have improved on that. But those improvements were often things the Russians already had in the works, like increasing the basic AL-31 lifetime from 900 to 1,500 hours, and, most recently, 2,000 hours. But the Chinese have failed to master some of the basic manufacturing techniques for high-performance jet engines. The reality is that the WS-10As has some serious, and unpredictable, reliability problems, which are becoming obvious.
> 
> China believes it will be free from dependence on Russia for military jet engines within the next five years, which implies that Chinese engine manufacturers still have a way to go. For years, China has imported two Russian engines, the $3.5 million AL-31, and the $2.5 million RD-93 (a version of the MiG-29's RD-33) for the JF-17 (an F-16 type aircraft developed in cooperation with Pakistan.) But in the meantime, Chinese engineers thought they had managed to master the manufacturing techniques needed to make a Chinese copy of the Russian AL-31 engine. This Chinese copy, the WS-10A, is part of a program that has also developed the WS-13, to replace the RD-93 as well. While the Chinese have been able to build engines that are durable, they are still having problems with reliability, and that's a killer with fighter jet engines, where failure in combat can be fatal.
> 
> China has long copied foreign technology, not always successfully. But in the last decade, China has poured much money into developing a jet engine manufacturing capability. The Chinese encountered many of the same problems the Russians did in the beginning. Developing the necessary engine design and construction skills is difficult. But China has several advantages. First, they knew of the mistakes the Russians had made, and so were able to avoid many of them. Then there was the fact that China had better access to Western manufacturing technology (both legally and illegally). Finally, China was, unlike the Soviets, able to develop their engine manufacturing capabilities in a market economy. This was much more efficient than the command economy that the Soviets were saddled with for seven decades. The Chinese consider the J-10 and WS-10A part of the learning process, and they do learn from their mistakes. But jet engines for commercial aircraft are less difficult to develop than those needed for combat aircraft, and China is encountering more problems than they expected.



isnt this news from 2006?


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## homing28



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## oct605032048

Flight show of J-10 by PLAAF.

?????????????????-20111108????-????-?????????????-???

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## homing28



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## Broccoli




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## Luftwaffe

PLAAF primary Trainer is Nanchang CJ-6. Are there any plans to replace them with similar systems or designs like Tucano.


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## teddy

Luftwaffe said:


> PLAAF primary Trainer is Nanchang CJ-6. Are there any plans to replace them with similar systems or designs like Tucano.


Yes there is, cj7
http://cnair.top81.cn/trainer/CJ-7.jpg
http://cnair.top81.cn/trainer/L-7d.jpg
May be it was just a basic trainer, so peoples don't pay attention at it.


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## houshanghai

PLAAF Su-30MKK TV-guided PGM attack excercise

PLAAF Su-30MKK TV-guided PGM attack excercise - YouTube


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## houshanghai

PLAAF Calendar 2011 BY &#34013;&#32982;

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## zcx91529

nice pics&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;


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## Great China

Any pic of the chinese new stealth bomber?


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## houshanghai

new Production J11B with WS10A











thx weimeng










you can see J11B's wing with a lot of green composite material
thx yankee

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## houshanghai

PLAN new Production of J10A






THX XIEXIAOMI

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## fjavaid

Couldnt stop my self from posting the video
chinese air force - YouTube


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## Obambam

> *J-7 Series Fighters will withdraw from first line service*
> Posted on 14 December 2011 by admin
> 
> 2011-12-14 (China Military News cited from strategypage.com) -- *China has officially withdrawn its MiG-21 clone (the J-7) from first line service. This comes as no surprise. In the last four years, China has more than doubled the number of modern combat aircraft (J-10, J-11, Su-27, Su-30 and J-8F) from 500 to over 1,200. *Four years ago, China relied mainly on some 2,000 locally built copies of Russian MiG-19s (J-6) and MiG-21 (J-7). There are still several hundred bombers, mostly Russian knockoffs. Normally, the actual number of Chinese aircraft is a state secret. However, thanks to the ability of Chinese to move freely throughout the country, and access to the Internet, it's possible to locate and count all the air force units in the country. That shows a current force that is rapidly changing from one that is mostly MiG-21s and MiG-19s, to one composed of much more capable aircraft. China is buying and building a lot of the Russian Su-27s and Su-30s (the latter an upgrade of the former.) But new, home grown designs, like the J-20 are also showing up.
> 
> Another reason for withdrawing the J-7 to secondary regions (where modern jets are unlikely to be encountered) is the inability to use J-7s a lot for training. That's important because China is revising its combat pilot training program. The existing system takes ten years of academic and flight training. The new program cuts that to 5-7 years, while increasing flight hours by over 40 percent. This is more in line with Western methods, while the existing system owes more to the one the Russians developed during the Cold War. The new system puts more emphasis on trainee pilots demonstrating combat flying skills before they can graduate. Cold War era Russian aircraft designs, like the MiG-21, were not designed for the heavy use required for Western style pilot training.
> 
> The new training program is actually an evolution of the need for new training methods to prepare pilots to handle the more modern aircraft. Training for pilots of these new fighters has been more intense than for any previous aircraft. In addition, China is also holding training exercises directed at fighting other modern fighters, like those flown by Taiwan, Japan and the United States. China is not keeping much of this secret, and that is apparently sending a message to potential foes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China has long been the largest user of the MiG-21, in the form of their J-7 clone. China still exports J-7s, but has been rapidly retiring the ones remaining in Chinese service. The J-7 was, in many ways, the most advanced version of the MiG-21, as the Chinese kept improving their J-7 design. Over 10,000 Mig-21s and J-7s have been produced in the last sixty years, making this the most widely manufactured jet fighter of the last century (during World War II, there were several propeller driven fighters that were produced in greater numbers.) The MiG-21 looked fearsome, but it was a bust in combat, getting shot down more often than not. Russia still had 186 Mig-21s in service when the Soviet Union dissolved in 1991s. These MiG-21s were officially retired a few years later. India, the last major user of the MiG-21, is in the process of retiring them as well.



J-7 Series Fighters will withdraw from first line service | China Military Power Mashup

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## Sasquatch

---------- Post added at 05:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:53 PM ----------

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## Martian2

The list shows the fighters in China's PLA Air Force (PLAAF).





PLAAF fighters, bombers, and AWACS (Reference: People's Liberation Army Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; see footnotes for primary sources. The reference link itemizes China's trainer, transport, and aerial refueling aircraft. Additionally, helicopters and UAVs are itemized.)

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## Sasquatch

Had a few more pictures however they don't seem to be uploading


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## Martian2

*J-10B Vigorous Dragon carries missiles and extra fuel pods to extend flight range*





J-10B Vigorous Dragon carries missiles and extra fuel pods to extend flight range.











[Note: Thank you to Aimarraul for the pictures.]


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## unicorn



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## teddy

Martian2 said:


> The list shows the fighters in China's PLA Air Force (PLAAF).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PLAAF fighters, bombers, and AWACS (Reference: People's Liberation Army Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia; see footnotes for primary sources. The reference link itemizes China's trainer, transport, and aerial refueling aircraft. Additionally, helicopters and UAVs are itemized.)



Actually, the first batch of 24 su-27 had already retired. they are too old and out dated.

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## Martian2

*China's H-6K can carry three CJ-10K cruise missiles under one wing*





China's H-6K can carry three CJ-10K cruise missiles under one wing. The CJ-10K cruise missile has a range of 1,500 to 2,500km (see Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force)

A single H-6K can bring Japan to its knees

The H-6 bomber fulfills the same role as the American B-52 bomber. Enemy air defenses and fighters have to be destroyed before sending a H-6 bomber over enemy territory.

However, the picture of the H-6 bomber carrying cruise missiles is significant. Due to the high altitude during launch, the cruise missile has extensive range; compared to a ground-launched cruise missile. For example, the H-6 can launch a withering cruise missile assault on Japan from hundreds of miles away.

The H-6 is being modified to carry the nuclear-capable DH-10 cruise missile. A single H-6 carrying six DH-10 nuclear-armed cruise missiles with 90 kilotons each (which is four times more powerful than Hiroshima's 20 kiloton bomb) can seriously damage six major Japanese cities.

Alternatively, all six DH-10 nuclear-armed cruise missiles can be fired at the Tokyo Greater Metropolitan Area for 40 million dead. With one H-6K strike, Japan has lost 1/3 of its population. The downside is that China just lost a lot of customers.

[Note: Thank you to Bltizo for the picture.]

----------

H-6 launches anti-ship missile

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-84MouS_Sk

----------

Pair of H-6M bombers carrying KD-93 LACM





Pair of H-6M bombers carrying KD-93 LACM (i.e. land attack cruise missiles).

[Note: Thank you to No_name for the picture link and Bltizo for the caption.]

----------

H-6K "God of War" bomber





H-6K "God of War" bomber





H-6M Bombs Away!





Chinese Rolling Thunder!

[Note: Thank you to A.Man for the first picture and Deino for the second caption.]

----------

H-6 in tanker role





H-6 tanker with new solid nose

[Note: Thank you to No_name for the picture link and TPHuang for the caption.]

----





H-6 tanker with "a wing-mounted refueling pod" and a retracted drogue

[Note: Thank you to No_name for the picture link.]

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## houshanghai

*L15&#39318;&#39134;&#24405;&#35937;
a rare clip of HongDu L-15 Falcon advanced jet trainer first flight 2006*









---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------


*L15&#12288;&#65313;&#65322;&#65332; &#12288;&#65328;&#65332;&#65296;&#65299;&#12288;&#65313;&#65321;&#65330;&#65331;&#65320;&#65327;&#65335;&#12288; Chinese L-15 Falcon advanced jet trainer*



















---------- Post added at 07:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:21 AM ----------

*
&#65324;&#65297;&#65301;&#12288;&#65324;&#65321;&#65318;&#65332;&#12288;&#65328;&#65332;&#65296;&#65302;&#12288;&#65313;&#65321;&#65330;&#65331;&#65320;&#65327;&#65335;
Chinese L-15 Falcon advanced jet trainer on displays*
















*According to interview of L15's chief designer that L15 LIFT have equiped an advanced ESA radar,this is very rare for all trainers in world,
L15 Electronically Scanned Array radar





L15 Specifications
General
Crew:2
Maiden Flight:2006
Type:supersonic training aircraft / Advanced Jet Trainer aircraft and light attack aircraft 
General
Length: 12.27 m ()
Wingspan: 9.48 m ()
Height: 4.81 m ()
Max loads > 3500kg
Powerplant: 2 × Ivchenko Progress AI-222K-25F afterburning turbofans
Maximum speed: Mach 1.6
Hardpoints: 9
Using composite materials: 25%
Serving period :10 000 flight hours or 30 years
Cockpit:improved glass cockpit with 3 MFDs
Flight control system:HOTAS control and 3-axis quadruplex digital FBW*

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## houshanghai

Short news reports of the Chinese Wind Tunnels






thx to hk299792458

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## applesauce

houshanghai said:


> According to interview of L15's chief designer that L15 LIFT have equiped an advanced ESA radar,this is very rare for all trainers in world,
> L15 Electronically Scanned Array radar



oh god, why?
one of the problem besides the foreign engines is the cost of the L-15, adding a aesa radar would only make the cost go way up, and it wouldnt even bring that many benefits.


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## houshanghai

applesauce said:


> oh god, why?
> one of the problem besides the foreign engines is the cost of the L-15, adding a aesa radar would only make the cost go way up, and it wouldnt even bring that many benefits.




because L15's opponents yak130 have a PESA and KAI are also looking for a AESA for T50,So L15 LIFT version have to do it.actually, L15 AJT ordinary version havet it and only L15 PT06 LIFT version have it,
anyway,latest info from last year that small batch production of L15 has been started and L15 has been renamed as "JL10" . Powerplant except for AI-222K-25F,A chinese WS16 jet engine is also being developed for L15 in future,

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## Martian2

A PLAAF H-6U tanker refuels a J-10S combat-capable trainer over the Guangzhou MR (military region) Coast.

Chengdu J-10 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"J-10S: Twin-seat fighter-trainer variant of the J-10A. The forward fuselage of the aircraft is stretched to accommodate an additional pilot seat, two pilots sit in tandem with a single large bubble canopy. Also incorporates an enlarged dorsal spine which may accommodate additional avionics equipment or fuel. *As well as serving as training aircraft, the J-10S may also be used for the ground attack role where the rear-seat pilot would act as the weapon systems operator.*[34]"

[Note: Photo credit belongs to PLAAF (PLA Air Force). Caption credit belongs to Australia Air Power.]


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## Martian2

New Chinese KJ-2000 AWACS (NATO reporting name: Mainring)





Close-up of new KJ-2000 AWACS

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KJ-2000

"Design

The current KJ-2000 AWACS in Chinese service is equipped with a domestic AESA (active electronically scanned array),[4] also known as active phased array, radar. The radar was designed by the Research Institute of Electronic Technology (also more commonly known as the 14th Institute) at Nanjing, and it utilizes the experience gained from the 14th Institute's earlier indigenously developed Type H/LJG-346 SAPARS (Shipborne Active Phased Array Radar System) that was completed in 1998. The same Type H/LJG-346 SAPARS was also the predecessor of the active phased array radar system equipping the PLAN Lanzhou class destroyers. The radar is arranged in the same way as that of the Beriev A-50I.[4]"

----------

This is at least the sixth KJ-2000 AWACS in the fleet.

Reference: "Five were estimated in service as of 2008." (see http://china.usc.edu/App_Images/military conflict 2008.pdf).

[Note: Thank you to Greyboy2 for the pictures.]

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## marshall

Martian2 said:


> *J-10B Vigorous Dragon carries missiles and extra fuel pods to extend flight range*


Looks like a smiling shark.



Martian2 said:


>


Here's a smirk from the side view.



Martian2 said:


>


You can't possibly say that doesn't look like a huge grin on a fighter plane?

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## nomi007

KJ-2000 (NATO reporting name: Mainring)


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## Sasquatch



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## sweetgrape

J10 stationed in Tibet Plateau.

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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch

Got a few more photos going to put up soon.

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## Sasquatch

---------- Post added at 04:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:15 AM ----------

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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch

H-6

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## Sasquatch

^^^ hahaha

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## Sasquatch

J-10 Testing

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## no_name

Think these are final checks for new planes entering service.


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## Speeder 2

Hu Songshan said:


> H-6



 Tommy Cruise-Wang on the loose...?


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## Greater China

*PLA Air Force August 1 acrobatics team stages first six-plane flight training in 2012*

March 02, 2012

The aerobatics team of China's air force conducts the first flight training of six aircraft of the year. 

Photos from China Military Online:











One of the six J-10 fighters of the August 1 Acrobatics Team of the Air Force of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army practices rolling in single file. (chimil.com.cn/Yan Xiaowei)













Two J-10 fighters of the August 1 Acrobatics Team of the Air Force of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army are taxing on the runway before taking off. 







Six J-10 fighters of the August 1 Acrobatics Team of the Air Force of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army fly in a wedge formation in a flight training. 







Three J-10 fighters of the August 1 Acrobatics Team of the Air Force of the Chinese Peoples Liberation Army are taking off in a 3-plane wedge formation.


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## SinoChallenger

Kanwa reports: China readies for war with india

- Closest airbase to New Delhi less than 1000 km

- Closest airbase to india is 227 km

- J-10A, J-11A and HQ-9 SAM already deployed to Tibet


Link to article

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&#27721;&#21644;&#20998;&#26512;&#35748;&#20026;&#65306;&#36825;&#26159;&#36804;&#20170;&#20026;&#27490;&#26368;&#20026;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#30340;&#38470;&#31354;&#20891;&#32852;&#21512;&#20316;&#25112;&#28436;&#20064;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#26126;&#26174;&#38024;&#23545;&#21360;&#24230;&#12290;&#28436;&#20064;&#20986;&#21160;&#20102;&#33487;-27/&#27516;-11A&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#23454;&#26045;&#28779;&#31661;&#24377;&#23545;&#22320;&#25915;&#20987;&#65292;&#21516;&#26102;&#27516;-10A&#36824;&#21457;&#23556;&#20102;&#22269;&#20135;&#30340;500&#20844;&#26020;&#32423;&#28608;&#20809;&#21046;&#23548;&#28856;&#24377;&#12290;&#27721;&#21644;&#31216;&#65292;&#19978;&#36848;&#20004;&#31181;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#20174;2011&#24180;5&#26376;&#38388;&#23601;&#24120;&#39547;&#25289;&#33832;&#36129;&#22030;&#26426;&#22330;&#65292;2010&#24180;&#20197;&#26469;&#65292;&#36825;&#19968;&#26426;&#22330;&#24050;&#32463;&#22810;&#27425;&#20986;&#29616;&#27516;-11&#12290;&#25104;&#37117;&#20891;&#21306;&#21482;&#26377;&#31354;33&#24072;&#37096;&#32626;&#27516;-11&#12289;&#31354;44&#24072;&#37096;&#32626;&#27516;-10&#12290;&#36825;&#20123;&#39134;&#26426;&#26159;&#21542;&#20197;&#36718;&#35757;&#26041;&#24335;&#24120;&#39547;&#35199;&#34255;&#39640;&#21407;&#20540;&#24471;&#39640;&#24230;&#20851;&#27880;&#12290;

&#27721;&#21644;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#20174;2009&#24180;&#24320;&#22987;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#22312;&#35199;&#34255;&#38024;&#23545;&#21360;&#24230;&#20891;&#38431;&#30340;&#20316;&#25112;&#20934;&#22791;&#22823;&#22823;&#24378;&#21270;&#12290;&#37096;&#32626;&#20102;&#26032;&#22411;&#30340;&#36828;&#31243;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#21644;&#20316;&#25112;&#39134;&#26426;&#12290;&#23588;&#20854;&#20540;&#24471;&#27880;&#24847;&#30340;&#26159;2011&#24180;&#31459;&#24037;&#30340;&#26085;&#21888;&#21017;&#22522;&#22320;&#65292;&#34429;&#28982;&#31216;&#20026;&#20891;&#27665;&#20004;&#29992;&#26426;&#22330;&#65292;&#26426;&#22330;&#23436;&#20840;&#20026;&#31354;&#20891;&#39547;&#20891;&#36127;&#36131;&#65292;&#20462;&#24314;&#20102;&#30456;&#24403;&#22823;&#22411;&#21270;&#30340;&#20891;&#33829;&#21644;&#21508;&#31181;&#36710;&#24211;&#65292;&#23588;&#20854;&#20540;&#24471;&#27880;&#24847;&#30340;&#26159;2009&#24180;&#24320;&#22987;&#65292;&#36825;&#19968;&#26426;&#22330;&#36824;&#20462;&#24314;&#20102;&#26032;&#30340;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#21457;&#23556;&#38453;&#22320;&#65292;&#38453;&#22320;&#30340;&#22806;&#24418;&#26159;4&#20010;&#21457;&#23556;&#22330;&#22378;&#65292;&#37239;&#20284;&#32418;&#26071;-9&#36828;&#31243;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#30340;&#21457;&#23556;&#38453;&#22320;&#65292;&#36824;&#26377;&#20004;&#20010;&#23567;&#22330;&#22378;&#65292;&#22240;&#27492;&#19981;&#25490;&#38500;&#21478;&#22806;&#19968;&#31181;&#21487;&#33021;&#24615;&#65292;&#21363;&#37096;&#32626;&#32418;&#26071;-12&#20013;&#31243;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#12290;&#32418;&#26071;-9&#12289;&#32418;&#26071;-12A&#30340;&#23556;&#31243;&#20998;&#21035;&#20026;125&#20844;&#37324;&#12289;50&#20844;&#37324;&#12290;*&#30495;&#27491;&#29190;&#21457;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#26085;&#21888;&#21017;&#26426;&#22330;&#23558;&#26159;&#38750;&#24120;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#20891;&#20107;&#22522;&#22320;*&#65292;&#36825;&#19968;&#26426;&#22330;&#36317;&#31163;&#21360;&#24230;&#36793;&#30028;&#21482;&#26377;227&#20844;&#37324;&#65292;&#36317;&#31163;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#25552;&#26031;&#28006;&#23572;&#12289;&#36158;&#24067;&#29926;&#20004;&#22823;&#26426;&#22330;&#30340;&#36317;&#31163;&#20998;&#21035;&#20026;450-660&#20844;&#37324;&#12290;&#33021;&#22815;&#23545;&#19978;&#36848;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#26426;&#22330;&#23454;&#26045;&#20808;&#21457;&#21046;&#20154;&#30340;&#25171;&#20987;&#12290;&#22240;&#27492;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#22312;&#25112;&#26102;&#26368;&#26377;&#21487;&#33021;&#20351;&#29992;&#30340;&#20004;&#22823;&#21069;&#27839;&#26426;&#22330;&#26159;&#26085;&#21888;&#21017;&#21644;&#36129;&#22030;&#26426;&#22330;&#12290;&#19968;&#32447;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#12289;&#36720;&#28856;&#26426;&#30340;&#23481;&#37327;&#20960;&#20046;&#22686;&#21152;&#20102;&#19968;&#20493;&#12290;


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## Greater China

*PLA's first female fighter pilots fly into the sky*

March 07, 2012

PLAs female fighter pilots operated fighters to conduct strike drill in mid-February of 2012.






Female fighter pilot Lv Pin selects the best attacking angle and timing to press the firing button after careful consideration of guided weapon's performance parameter.







Female fighter pilot Lv Pin inspects the onboard equipments of the fighter.


PLA's brave female fighter pilots:































People's Daily Online


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## Greater China




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## Greater China

*PLA Air Force trained 328 female pilots*

March 09, 2012

BEIJING, March 8 (Xinhua) -- A total of 328 female pilots have been trained by the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force over the past six decades, according to figures disclosed at a ceremony held Thursday to mark the 60th anniversary of the debut flight of Chinese women pilots.

The PLA Air Force has recruited a total of nine groups of female pilot trainees over the past 60 years, and eight of these groups have already graduated, figures show.

Women pilots joined the flight mission of the PLA Air Force for the first time on March 8, 1952, when a group of them flew planes over the Tian'anmen Square in Beijing as a flight show.

Since then, they have successfully completed numerous key missions in chartered flight, disaster relief, research-oriented trial flight, and afforestation by airplane sowing, and they have flown in the National Day parade air show.

Xu Qiliang, a member of the Central Military Commission and commander of the PLA Air Force, attended the ceremony.

People's Daily Online

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## SinoChallenger

SinoChallenger said:


> Kanwa reports: China readies for war with india
> 
> - Closest airbase to New Delhi less than 1000 km
> 
> - Closest airbase to india is 227 km
> 
> - J-10A, J-11A and HQ-9 SAM already deployed to Tibet
> 
> 
> Link to article
> 
> &#29615;&#29699;&#32593;&#35760;&#32773;&#21016;&#26118;&#25253;&#36947;&#65306;&#26032;&#19968;&#26399;&#30340;&#27721;&#21644;&#38450;&#21153;&#35780;&#35770;&#21002;&#25991;&#31216;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#24378;&#21270;&#23545;&#21360;&#24555;&#36895;&#20316;&#25112;&#21453;&#24212;&#33021;&#21147;&#65292;&#38024;&#23545;&#21360;&#24230;&#24320;&#23637;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#20891;&#20107;&#28436;&#20064;&#65292;&#27721;&#21644;&#31216;&#65292;&#38543;&#30528;&#33487;-27/&#27516;-11A&#12289;&#27516;-10A&#19978;&#39640;&#21407;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#36824;&#21152;&#24378;&#35199;&#34255;&#19968;&#32447;&#26426;&#22330;&#24314;&#35774;&#65292;&#26368;&#36817;&#30340;&#26426;&#22330;&#36317;&#31163;&#21360;&#24230;&#20165;227&#20844;&#37324;&#65292;&#33021;&#22815;&#23454;&#26045;&#20808;&#21457;&#21046;&#20154;&#24335;&#25171;&#20987;&#65292;&#32780;&#26032;&#30086;&#12289;&#38738;&#28023;&#30340;&#20108;&#32447;&#26426;&#22330;&#20063;&#33719;&#20462;&#32558;&#65292;&#26368;&#36817;&#30340;&#26426;&#22330;&#36317;&#31163;&#26032;&#24503;&#37324;&#21482;&#26377;960&#20844;&#37324;&#12290;
> 
> &#27721;&#21644;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#23186;&#20307;&#25253;&#36947;&#31216;&#65292;&#25104;&#37117;&#20891;&#21306;&#65288;&#21435;&#24180;&#65289;&#31179;&#23395;&#22312;&#21547;&#27687;&#37327;&#19981;&#36275;60%&#30340;4500&#31859;&#28023;&#25300;&#30340;&#39640;&#21407;&#20030;&#34892;&#20102;&#39318;&#27425;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#32852;&#21512;&#20316;&#25112;&#28436;&#20064;&#12290;&#30011;&#38754;&#26174;&#31034;96G&#22411;&#25913;&#33391;&#22411;&#20027;&#25112;&#22374;&#20811;&#12289;122&#27627;&#31859;&#33258;&#34892;&#27060;&#24377;&#28846;&#12289;&#32937;&#25179;&#24335;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#12289;122&#27627;&#31859;&#22810;&#31649;&#28779;&#31661;&#28846;&#65292;&#33487;-27/&#27516;-11A&#12289;&#27516;-10A&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#21442;&#21152;&#20102;&#28436;&#20064;&#12290;&#25253;&#36947;&#31216;&#36825;&#27425;&#28436;&#20064;&#30340;&#35774;&#24819;&#26159;&#65306;&#20197;&#39640;&#21407;&#20316;&#25112;&#20026;&#32972;&#26223;&#65292;&#27169;&#25311;&#34013;&#20891;&#25250;&#21344;&#32418;&#20891;&#22810;&#20010;&#39640;&#22320;&#65292;&#35774;&#31435;&#25454;&#28857;&#23601;&#22320;&#32452;&#32455;&#38450;&#24481;&#65292;&#23545;&#32418;&#20891;&#20027;&#21147;&#36827;&#34892;&#38470;&#31354;&#25903;&#25345;&#32852;&#21512;&#34892;&#21160;&#65292;&#25300;&#38500;&#25454;&#28857;&#65292;&#24443;&#24213;&#31881;&#30862;&#34013;&#20891;&#20225;&#22270;&#12290;
> 
> &#27721;&#21644;&#20998;&#26512;&#35748;&#20026;&#65306;&#36825;&#26159;&#36804;&#20170;&#20026;&#27490;&#26368;&#20026;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#30340;&#38470;&#31354;&#20891;&#32852;&#21512;&#20316;&#25112;&#28436;&#20064;&#65292;&#32780;&#19988;&#26126;&#26174;&#38024;&#23545;&#21360;&#24230;&#12290;&#28436;&#20064;&#20986;&#21160;&#20102;&#33487;-27/&#27516;-11A&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#23454;&#26045;&#28779;&#31661;&#24377;&#23545;&#22320;&#25915;&#20987;&#65292;&#21516;&#26102;&#27516;-10A&#36824;&#21457;&#23556;&#20102;&#22269;&#20135;&#30340;500&#20844;&#26020;&#32423;&#28608;&#20809;&#21046;&#23548;&#28856;&#24377;&#12290;&#27721;&#21644;&#31216;&#65292;&#19978;&#36848;&#20004;&#31181;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#20174;2011&#24180;5&#26376;&#38388;&#23601;&#24120;&#39547;&#25289;&#33832;&#36129;&#22030;&#26426;&#22330;&#65292;2010&#24180;&#20197;&#26469;&#65292;&#36825;&#19968;&#26426;&#22330;&#24050;&#32463;&#22810;&#27425;&#20986;&#29616;&#27516;-11&#12290;&#25104;&#37117;&#20891;&#21306;&#21482;&#26377;&#31354;33&#24072;&#37096;&#32626;&#27516;-11&#12289;&#31354;44&#24072;&#37096;&#32626;&#27516;-10&#12290;&#36825;&#20123;&#39134;&#26426;&#26159;&#21542;&#20197;&#36718;&#35757;&#26041;&#24335;&#24120;&#39547;&#35199;&#34255;&#39640;&#21407;&#20540;&#24471;&#39640;&#24230;&#20851;&#27880;&#12290;
> 
> &#27721;&#21644;&#25991;&#31456;&#31216;&#65292;&#20174;2009&#24180;&#24320;&#22987;&#65292;&#35299;&#25918;&#20891;&#22312;&#35199;&#34255;&#38024;&#23545;&#21360;&#24230;&#20891;&#38431;&#30340;&#20316;&#25112;&#20934;&#22791;&#22823;&#22823;&#24378;&#21270;&#12290;&#37096;&#32626;&#20102;&#26032;&#22411;&#30340;&#36828;&#31243;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#21644;&#20316;&#25112;&#39134;&#26426;&#12290;&#23588;&#20854;&#20540;&#24471;&#27880;&#24847;&#30340;&#26159;2011&#24180;&#31459;&#24037;&#30340;&#26085;&#21888;&#21017;&#22522;&#22320;&#65292;&#34429;&#28982;&#31216;&#20026;&#20891;&#27665;&#20004;&#29992;&#26426;&#22330;&#65292;&#26426;&#22330;&#23436;&#20840;&#20026;&#31354;&#20891;&#39547;&#20891;&#36127;&#36131;&#65292;&#20462;&#24314;&#20102;&#30456;&#24403;&#22823;&#22411;&#21270;&#30340;&#20891;&#33829;&#21644;&#21508;&#31181;&#36710;&#24211;&#65292;&#23588;&#20854;&#20540;&#24471;&#27880;&#24847;&#30340;&#26159;2009&#24180;&#24320;&#22987;&#65292;&#36825;&#19968;&#26426;&#22330;&#36824;&#20462;&#24314;&#20102;&#26032;&#30340;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#21457;&#23556;&#38453;&#22320;&#65292;&#38453;&#22320;&#30340;&#22806;&#24418;&#26159;4&#20010;&#21457;&#23556;&#22330;&#22378;&#65292;&#37239;&#20284;&#32418;&#26071;-9&#36828;&#31243;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#30340;&#21457;&#23556;&#38453;&#22320;&#65292;&#36824;&#26377;&#20004;&#20010;&#23567;&#22330;&#22378;&#65292;&#22240;&#27492;&#19981;&#25490;&#38500;&#21478;&#22806;&#19968;&#31181;&#21487;&#33021;&#24615;&#65292;&#21363;&#37096;&#32626;&#32418;&#26071;-12&#20013;&#31243;&#22320;&#23545;&#31354;&#23548;&#24377;&#12290;&#32418;&#26071;-9&#12289;&#32418;&#26071;-12A&#30340;&#23556;&#31243;&#20998;&#21035;&#20026;125&#20844;&#37324;&#12289;50&#20844;&#37324;&#12290;*&#30495;&#27491;&#29190;&#21457;&#22823;&#35268;&#27169;&#25112;&#20105;&#65292;&#26085;&#21888;&#21017;&#26426;&#22330;&#23558;&#26159;&#38750;&#24120;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#20891;&#20107;&#22522;&#22320;*&#65292;&#36825;&#19968;&#26426;&#22330;&#36317;&#31163;&#21360;&#24230;&#36793;&#30028;&#21482;&#26377;227&#20844;&#37324;&#65292;&#36317;&#31163;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#30340;&#25552;&#26031;&#28006;&#23572;&#12289;&#36158;&#24067;&#29926;&#20004;&#22823;&#26426;&#22330;&#30340;&#36317;&#31163;&#20998;&#21035;&#20026;450-660&#20844;&#37324;&#12290;&#33021;&#22815;&#23545;&#19978;&#36848;&#21360;&#24230;&#31354;&#20891;&#26426;&#22330;&#23454;&#26045;&#20808;&#21457;&#21046;&#20154;&#30340;&#25171;&#20987;&#12290;&#22240;&#27492;&#20013;&#22269;&#31354;&#20891;&#22312;&#25112;&#26102;&#26368;&#26377;&#21487;&#33021;&#20351;&#29992;&#30340;&#20004;&#22823;&#21069;&#27839;&#26426;&#22330;&#26159;&#26085;&#21888;&#21017;&#21644;&#36129;&#22030;&#26426;&#22330;&#12290;&#19968;&#32447;&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#12289;&#36720;&#28856;&#26426;&#30340;&#23481;&#37327;&#20960;&#20046;&#22686;&#21152;&#20102;&#19968;&#20493;&#12290;


Huitong's H-6K page updated!

One of the H-6K (K/JH6K?) cruise missile carrier prototypes was undergoing a test flight at CFTE. This new variant first flew on January 5, 2007 at XAC. Two prototypes have been produced (861 & 862). Its major improvement is to replace two fuel-thirsty WP-8/AM-3 turbojet engines with Russian D-30KP-2 turbofan engines (TO thrust 12,000kg, similar to the engine used by Il-76MD in service with PLAAF), resulting in a greater range (30% more?) and a higher cruise speed. Around 55 D-30KP-2 engines were imported from Russia between 2009-2011. As the result the engine compartment was completely redesigned. It is believed that D-30KP-2 is being reverse-engineered as WS-18 by the Chengdu Engine Corporation. Other improvements include a redesigned solid nose housing a large ground search radar, a chin mounted FLIR/TV turret for night/poor weather missions, nose MAWS sensors, a SATCOM antenna on the top of rear fuselage, a datalink antenna on the bottom of rear fuselage, solid tail cone housing electronics with the tail gunner compartment removed, 6 underwing missile pylons and use of composite materials to reduce weight. Its cockpit has been completely redesigned featuring 6 color MFDs. The aircraft now has 3-member crew located in the forward cabin (two pilots+WSO), each equipped with a new ejection seat (HTY-6F) to improve pilot survivability. The crew can also get into/out of the cabin quickly through a side door. The internal bomb bay appears retained and no IFR probe has been found. A total of 6 large long-range cruise missiles may be carried, which might be the air-launched version of CJ-10 (CJ-10K?) cruise missile (range 2,500km, similar to Russian Kh-55). Some images suggested it may also carry a mix of different types of missiles, including the smaller KD-63 ASM. H-6K is capable of flying strategic missions with these long-range cruise missiles (armed with nuclear warheads). It also has the potential to be converted into ASW aircraft or tanker in the future. The latest images (May 2011) indicated that the first batch of H-6Ks are entering the service with PLAAF (S/N 11x9x). 

- Last Updated 3/7/12

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## Greater China

*A Race of China and U.S. in air Electronic attack weapon*

2012-03-10 (China Military News cited from aviationweek.com and by David A. Fu) -- The U.S. Air Force is developing network weapons to attack aircraft.

Electronic warfare specialists know the technology is already a double-edged sword, however. The Chinese, a senior service official says, are already working hard on, and in some cases fielding, similar systems to attack high-value aircraft used for early warning, electronic surveillance, command and control, and intelligence.







_PLA Air Force KJ-2000 AWACS_

The Air Force is pursuing &#8220;cyber-methods to defeat aircraft,&#8221; Gen. Norton Schwartz, the service&#8217;s chief of staff, told attendees at the 2012 Credit Suisse and McAleese Associates Defense Programs conference in Washington March 8. But Lt. Gen. Herbert Carlisle, the deputy chief of staff for operations, says the same threat to U.S. aircraft already is &#8220;out there.&#8221;

Ashton Carter, deputy secretary of defense, is pushing both offensive and defensive network-attack skills and technology. &#8220;I&#8217;m not remotely satisfied&#8221; with the Pentagon&#8217;s cyber-capabilities, Carter says.

&#8220;The Russians and the Chinese have designed specific electronic warfare platforms to go after all our high-value assets,&#8221; Carlisle says. &#8220;Electronic attack can be the method of penetrating a system to implant viruses. You&#8217;ve got to find a way into the workings of that [target] system, and generally that&#8217;s through some sort of emitted signal.&#8221;

The Chinese have electronic attack means &#8212; both ground-based and aircraft-mounted &#8212; specifically designed to attack E-3 AWACS, E-8 Joint Stars and P-8 maritime patrol aircraft, he says.

Schwartz revealed no other details, but several years ago the service tested the &#8220;Suter&#8221; system, which used a data stream filled with algorithms to invade an integrated air defense (IAD) system through its antennas. The data-stream, generated by an EC-130 Compass Call electronic-attack aircraft, was able to capture the enemy network&#8217;s radar pictures, take over the network as system administrator and tap into dispersed missile launchers through their wireless communication links. Changes to or effects on the output of the enemy IAD system were monitored by an RC-135 Rivet Joint signals-intelligence aircraft.

A fielded version of the system was used by Compass Call aircraft in Iraq and Afghanistan to tap into wireless telephone systems used to control improvised explosive devices. However, the EC-130 is a large, slow aircraft that does not fly at high altitudes, making it vulnerable to anti-aircraft guns and missile fire. So the task has become engineering a network invasion device small enough to fit into a stealthy aircraft &#8212; manned or unmanned, strike or reconnaissance &#8212; that can penetrate to a useful tactical range to attack enemy electronics and networks.

New U.S. aircraft like the F-22, F-35, EA-18G and F/A-18E/F now carry new, long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars that are being considered as part of an electronic-attack/network-invasion capability. However, different versions of the AESA arrays are being tailored to better fit the cyber/electronic attack mission. Some will go on unmanned designs like Boeing&#8217;s Champ cruise missile, Raytheon&#8217;s MALD-J jamming missile and a line of Mk.-82 bomb shapes to carry out the electronic attack role. Other designs will be tailored for the Suter-like, network-invasion task.

Ironically, the AESA arrays that make the new radars and electronic attack systems so formidable in range and power output also are major targets themselves for electronic attack. &#8220;From a cyber [attack] standpoint, AESA has introduced new vulnerabilities,&#8221; a veteran electronic attack specialist says. &#8220;They have a continual wide field of view that can be exploited.&#8221;

Such new weaponry would be a boon to the Air Force if it were thrown into a campaign against Syria. &#8220;Syria has a much more demanding air defense environment&#8221; than Libya, for example, Schwartz says. &#8220;We&#8217;re watching Syria closely&#8221; as well as other places where governments are showing &#8220;erratic behavior,&#8221; he says.

China Military News


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## HANI

While women have been ferrying cargo planes for the PLAAF since its founding, they were not allowed to serve in any combat roles. Then it all changed -- since February this year, six female pilots are serving in the 28 attack division, as WSOs.

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## Greater China



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## untitled

Greater China said:


>



Why do Chinese pilots march towards their aircraft? Never seen any other air force do this


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## no_name

That's just the old PR way I think.
It seems unnatural to me too.


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## Greater China

Different country, different customs. 































American pilots sometimes also march towards their machines, as it can be seen in the following two pictures:

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## Donatello

Hu Songshan said:


>



What Radar is that? It resembles the AESA AN/TPS 77 radar....recently acquired by PAF.


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## Greater China




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## Greater China



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## Armstrong

I'm going to marry a Chinese !


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## SinoChallenger

Chinese general criticizes certain people in the aviation industry by comparing them unfavorably to the aerospace industry, saying that they relied too much on foreign technology and failed to innovate -- methinks he is talking about SAC.

??·??ú??_??·??ú??_?_?


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## SinoChallenger

According to Chinese reports, Y20 transport (50 ton payload) will fly this year and begin mass production next year!

This means China's high bypass engine is finally ready and we will soon be able to make civilian airliners too.


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## pakje

Only one year of testing?


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## aamerjamal

love to see y-20 in PAF colors. haven't any picture but in impression picture looks awesome and huge like c17


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## Sasquatch

Self Delete.


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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch

Updating.  I will Post the rest of the drills later tired now. very soon be back.


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## Sasquatch

Seem to be having problems posting the drills however I will post the rest of this later until then Enjoy what I have posted.


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## Sasquatch

Finishing updating drills now.


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## Sasquatch



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## homing28



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## Sasquatch



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## SinoChallenger

^ What the heck is that? It's not a JF-17 because it has two horizontal stabilizers. It doesn't look like a J-11B either. It's not a J-10 or J-20 because those are canard deltas.

Could it be the mysterious JH-7B?


----------



## Sasquatch

SinoChallenger said:


> ^ What the heck is that? It's not a JF-17 because it has two horizontal stabilizers. It doesn't look like a J-11B either. It's not a J-10 or J-20 because those are canard deltas.
> 
> Could it be the mysterious JH-7B?



Rumors right now, been hearing however I will get back.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

J-11s production

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## gambit

SinoChallenger said:


> ^ What the heck is that? It's not a JF-17 *because it has two horizontal stabilizers*. It doesn't look like a J-11B either. It's not a J-10 or J-20 because those are canard deltas.
> 
> Could it be the mysterious JH-7B?


What aircraft have only one horizontal stab?

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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> J-11s production



Any word on J-15 ?


----------



## mil-avia

*Many PLAAF bases are significantly harder than Kadena :







Related image in post #54 of Missiles thread. *

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## gambit

mil-avia said:


> *Many PLAAF bases are significantly harder than Kadena :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related image in post #54 of Missiles thread. *


Not really...






Quite easy, actually...


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## Sasquatch



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## mil-avia

*J-8 interceptors and an HY-6 tanker aircraft :




1280 × 800 pixels


Related link.*


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## no_name

Hu Songshan said:


>



For some reason this paint scheme reminds me of the wrappings of a specific chinese candy company.


----------



## asianamerican

no_name said:


> For some reason this paint scheme reminds me of the wrappings of a specific chinese candy company.



LOL..I love white rabbit candy.

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## Sasquatch

J-10 J-11


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## Sasquatch




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## Sasquatch

upload rest later.


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## Sasquatch



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## mil-avia

*Air force bases and ballistic missile bases in north-eastern China :




1689 × 1247 pixels


Related image in post #46 of this thread and in post #62 of Missiles thread.*


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## mil-avia

mil-avia said:


> Su-30MKK fighter-bomber bases and range :


*This map was added to (taken from this thread) an external defence-related article by a South Korean writer on 2011/09/03.*


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## Sasquatch

J-11BS

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## mil-avia

*J-7 and JJ-7 aircraft variants evolution timeline, including three variants of MiG-21 :




2400 × 1591 pixels


Related link. *

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## Jango

Which aircraft is this, or is it a glider?

THis image is from Chengdu airfield. A J-10 prototype in the yellow paint scheme was also nearby.


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## no_name

Maybe one of the large UAV


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## tomluter

nuclearpak said:


> Which aircraft is this, or is it a glider?
> 
> THis image is from Chengdu airfield. A J-10 prototype in the yellow paint scheme was also nearby.

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## Martian2

*China perfects Sensor Fused Weapon (SFW) technology*

China's Military Technology Is Advancing So Fast They've Perfected This Lethal 'Smart' Ammunition - Business Insider

"China's Military Technology Is Advancing So Fast They've Perfected This Lethal 'Smart' Ammunition
Eloise Lee | April 12, 2012





The Terminal Sensing Ammunition (TSA) ejects mini parachutes as it flies over a target zone searching for its mark. (Credit: China Defense Mashup)

China is claiming a "breakthrough" at its Baicheng Weapon Test Center where it develops "Terminal Sensing Ammunition".

This ordnance is especially deadly to troops in tanks or armored personnel carriers, where it times its detonation to go off just outside the hatch for maximum effect.

This kind of weapon is not new to the West, but its development in China says nothing more than the PLA is catching up. Fast.

*The PLA Daily, the government-endorsed publication of the People's Liberation Army, reported significant progress in its technology that "senses" a target and deploys a destructive projectile to break through armor, immediately followed by a cluster of sub-projectiles to wipe out whatever the armor was protecting.*

J. Michael Cole at the Taipei Times says China's weapon "could prove especially threatening" to Taiwan's military defenses, with the technology capable of making hits as precise as the rooftops of moving armored vehicles. 

The two countries have a tense relationship spawned by the mainland's desire for re-unification, in which the modern island of Taiwan has no interest. The U.S. is concerned China will make good on its threat to attack Taiwan if necessary, amid ongoing espionage within the two countries' respective militaries.

Here's how the ammunition works:

The PLA says the weapon has the structure of "cluster sub-munition" which is loaded with smaller projectiles to "deliver strong lethal power" once the target is identified  a double hit designed to eliminate any chance of survival.

The specific aim of the terminal sensing ammunition (TSA) is to "attack the 'head bones'" of a tank, meaning the roof. The first hit of the weapon penetrates the roof, while the simultaneous release of sub-projectiles will effectively wipe out whoever or whatever is inside.

*After a demonstration to invited reporters, the PLA worker in charge confirmed that the weapon would produce "a massive amount of fragments to kill personnel and destroy equipment so as to achieve excellent combat performance."

A press release by the Ministry of National Defense indicates local media saw a test launch of China's new smart ammunition technology, which can be fired from cannons or attached to long-range missiles or airborne weapon systems.*

The enthusiastic report, translated by the Ministry into English, describes the launch:

_The terminal sensing projectile whizzed out in a big bang at the commander's command and flew over the target site when it discharged the terminal sensing sub-projectiles one by one, which ejected mini-parachutes immediately and searched for targets automatically. Each of them hit the target in precision._

The writers of the release say "it is no longer a dream for artillery soldiers to equip the projectile with eyes" pointing out the ability of the weapon to "eye" its targets and, at the same time, sending a very clear message to the rest of the world that China's military is rapidly waking up to 21st Century capabilities."

----------

"Developed and produced by Textron Defense Systems, the CBU-97 Sensor Fuzed Weapon is a United States Air Force 1,000-pound-class (450 kg) non-guided (freefall) cluster bomb, hence the name CBU (Cluster Bomb Unit).

The CBU-97 consists of an SUU-66/B tactical munition dispenser that contains 10 BLU-108 submunitions. Each submunition contains four hockey-puck-shaped sensor-fused projectiles called Skeets. These detect targets, such as tanks, armored personnel carriers, trucks and other support vehicles, and fire an explosively formed penetrator."

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## no_name

Video on the J-10 (In Chinese). Shows some flight footage.

[video]http://jishi.cntv.cn/military/junshijishi/classpage/video/20120510/101495.shtml[/video]

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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch

PLAAF over Tibet

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## Sasquatch



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## oct605032048




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## Sasquatch



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## Sasquatch




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## cirr



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## cirr

A new type of UAV&#65311;

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## eachus

it is a new V tail plane. stealthy attacker?


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## Global Ignition

I am a huge fan of Chinese aircraft, they need to fit the WS-10G into the J-10

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## Broccoli

J-10A with composite pylons. 






Could someone Chinese speaking give summary of that article? It would be interesting know if they talk about those new pylons.

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## oct605032048

it's not about the pylons. lol.


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## Broccoli

oct605032048 said:


> it's not about the pylons. lol.



That's what original poster in mp.net told.


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## homing28

Broccoli said:


> J-10A with composite pylons.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could someone Chinese speaking give summary of that article? It would be interesting know if they talk about those new pylons.


 
J-10 &#22235;&#20013;&#20841;&#36817;&#19977;&#27833;?


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## no_name

I think the poster is just using that pic to show that dual rack pylon (or whatever you called it) is being used.
The article itself is about increasing difficulty with PLAAF fighter training and exercise, they are also training for under ECM conditions.

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## cirr

¹ú¼Ò¿ÆÑ§¼¼Êõ½±Àø¹¤×÷°ì¹«ÊÒ


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## rcrmj

homing28 said:


> J-10 &#22235;&#20013;&#20841;&#36817;&#19977;&#27833;?


 &#26159;&#30340;&#65292;&#36229;&#32423;&#22823;&#26412;&#33829;&#37324;&#26377;&#35752;&#35770;&#65292;4,2,3

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## cirr

Destination&#65306;Tibet

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## Broccoli

PLAAF J-10 with twin-rail missile launchers - YouTube

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## Broccoli

J-10B with WS-10

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## SinoChallenger

*H-6K is here!*

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## gambit

SinoChallenger said:


> *H-6K is here!*


That looks very 'shopped'.


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## lcloo

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

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## Broccoli

Y-8GX-8

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## mil-avia

*Left : J-10, JH-7 and J-16 aircrafts / Right : J-11, J-20, J-15 and J-21 aircrafts :




1280 × 806 pixels 


Related link 1 and link 2. *

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## fatman17

*Chinese aircraft: The art of 'modelology' to predict trends*

Concept models at airshows allow analysts to obtain insights about future Chinese combat aircraft, writes Richard D Fisher Jr
China has maintained a wall of silence about its domestic military aerospace programs since its industrial development began. This, combined with Beijing's wide ranging and punitive definition of 'state secrets', has made the Cold War practice of analyzing airshow models, or 'modelology', a useful tool in predicting future Chinese combat aircraft trends.

Fortunately for China watchers, models are a regular feature of China's biennial Zhuhai and Beijing airshows and are popular for a number of reasons: they save manufacturers the expense of displaying full-size kit and, in cases where models have appeared before the actual aircraft, they allow the manufacturer to manage how much data it reveals.

Such concept models also allow manufacturers to take part in government-approved dis information campaigns: a deliberate effort to foster ambiguity that has led some analysts to dismiss all aircraft models as vaporware.

As the table illustrates, this is not entirely fair as many models &#8211; or later iterations thereof &#8211; have made it to the prototype and production phase.

Fighter aircraft
Nonetheless, the vaporware tag sticks, partly because of the often considerable time lag between a model being publicized and the emergence of the real thing. One notable example is the Xian Aircraft Corporation JH-7 (FB-7) strike fighter, which was first revealed in model form at the 1988 Farnborough Airshow. A fully fledged aircraft did not appear in public until the 1998 Zhuhai Air show.

Occasionally the credibility of an off-arms show aircraft model is boosted significantly, but not completely, by its appearance with a prominent Chinese political leader. In 1996 then Premier Li Peng was photographed with a model of an early configuration of the Chengdu Aircraft Company J-10 fourth-generation fighter, at the time lending considerable cachet to a program thought to be experiencing great technical challenges. More recently, in 2006 a politician was shown visiting Chengdu's 601 Design Institute, providing a glimpse of an early model of the J-20 stealth fighter whose existence was very publicly leaked during then US Secretary of Defense Robert Gates' visit to China in January 2011.

Another recent example was the unveiling at a model aircraft show in September 20ll by Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) of a twin-engine stealthy fifth generation fighter provisionally named the F-60: a model that received renewed interest in June 2012 when images appeared of a full-scale aircraft with a similar platform being transported on a flatbed trailer. Observers speculated that this was SAC's long-rumored fifth generation fighter, or a mock-Up, being moved to a museum or test Centre.

An earlier foray by SAC into fifth-generation fighters shows the potential pitfalls of this approach: at the 2006 Zhuhai show SAC revealed an apparent forward-swept wing advanced single engine fighter for which there has been no subsequent information.
Unmanned aircraft

Substantial investment by Chinese companies in unmanned aircraft has led to a plethora of plausible military programs appearing at shows and events. At the September 2011 model aircraft event SAC also unveiled a swept-wing turbofan-powered unmanned combat aerial vehicle (UCAV).

The recent sight of the potential F-60 supports the credibility of this UCAV being a future Shenyang program, as do SAC displays of UCAV models at the 2006 and 2008 Zhuhai shows.

These UCAVs - the sharply shaped supersonic-capable Anjian (Dark Sword/Hidden Knife), which a placard suggested would be used for counter-air missions, and a model of the subsonic forward-swept wing Warrior Eagle - would represent major advances in Chinese technology.

To date officials have not offered specifics about either. One example of a project that may support the belief that these programs are in the pipeline is the Guizhou Aircraft Company long-range Soar Dragon surveillance UAV. The UAV has a unique 'box wing' configuration and first appeared in model form at the 2006 Zhuhai Airshow. Officials would not comment on the program and it remained little more than an airshow concept model until images surfaced in mid-2011 of a full-size Soar Dragon UAV undergoing ground testing at the Chengdu Aircraft Company test field.

Transports
China's lack of transparency is not limited to its combat aircraft or UAV programs. In 2007 and 2009 models emerged of the Xian Y-20 tactical transport aircraft. While its existence has been confirmed by Ukrainian and Russian sources, we know little about this project other than it is expected to be unveiled this year.

As with fighter projects, a well-timed photo opportunity with a prominent politician can boost a transport's profile. At the end of 2007 Premier Wen Jiabao appeared with a model of a four-turbofan engine airliner at the First Aircraft Design Institute, which is connected to the Xian Aircraft Company.

Chinese officials have repeatedly declined to answer questions about this program, which might reveal accelerated ambitions to compete with Western airline makers. Such an aircraft could also perform multiple military missions. Some models remain mysteries.

At the 2002 Zhuhai Air show an upstart company named Beijing Super wing used a video of a radio-controlled model to unveil its CY-I: a low-cost canard fighter that used long fuselage strakes to dispense with expensive fly-by-wire systems. By the 2004 Zhuhai show the model had been renamed LFC-r6 and was apparently under development by the Guizhou Aircraft Company, whose FTC-2000/JL-9 provided the basis for the LFC-r6's forward fuselage. Although company officials have repeatedly mentioned imminent proto typing, this fighter has not been seen.

More mystery models emerged in October 2009 at a new China Aviation Museum display to commemorate the 60th anniversary of the People's Liberation Army Air Force. On show was a twin jet-engine delta-wing UAV that could represent a supersonic unmanned aircraft development program, while nearby was what appeared to be a large all delta wing four-engine strategic bombers. A wall mural showed the 'Wen Jiabao' four-engine transport aircraft armed with a nose-mounted laser that was attacking a satellite.

Although no data has been released that would lend credibility to these models, the same 2009 China Aviation Museum display did feature a model of the Anjian UCAV, keeping interest in this program's future alive.

Richard 0 Fisher Jr. is a senior fellow with the International Assessment and Strategy Center in Washington, DC


China&#8217;s Aircraft &#8211;From Models to Reality.

Aircraft&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.Model first seen&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; Aircraft's first known appearance

Super-7/FC-1&#8230;&#8230;.. 1986&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2003
Xian JH-7&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. 1988&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. 1998
Chengdu J-10&#8230;&#8230;.. 1996&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 1999
Guizhou FTC-2000.. 2000&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2003
Hongdu L&#8226;15&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 2001&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2005
Xian Y-8X&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 2000&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. Likely cancelled
CY-1 ILFC-1 6&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 2002&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. Not yet realised or cancelled
Xian Y-9&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 2002&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 2010
Chengdu fifth &#8211;generation fighter.. 2006&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2010
Guizhou Soar Dragon UAV.. 2006&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. 2011
Chengdu Tian Yi UAV&#8230; 2006&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; 2007
Shenyang Anjian UCAV.. 2006&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; Not yet realised
Shenyang Warrior Eagle UCAV.. 2006&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. Not yet realised
Shenyang forward-wing fighter.. 2006&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230; Not yet realised
Xian 4-turbofan transport&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. 2007&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. Not yet realised
Four-engine delta bomber.. 2009&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. Not yet realised
Shenyang swept -wing UCAV.. 2011&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. Not yet realised
Shenyang fifth-generation fighter.. 2011&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. 2012 or not yet realised

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## cirr

Batch-produced J-10Bs are beginning to show up in&#12288;&#65315;&#65313;&#65315;&#65306;

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## Martian2

*China's J-STARS*

China has at least four J-STARS (or Tu-154M/D _Careless_) for ELINT (i.e. ELectronic INTelligence).

----------

Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

"*Tu-154M/D Careless*

A number of Tu-154M/Ds (Type I/II) have been converted into ELINT aircraft, even through they are disguised under the cover of a civilian China United Airline registration. While Type I were believed to carry a BM/KZ800 ELINT system, *Type II features a canoe shaped fairing under the fuselage which has been speculated to house an experimental synthetic aperture radar (SAR) to provide high-resolution ground mapping images, a capability similar to American E-8 J-STARS.* Besides the SAR radar, the aircraft still retains some original EW and ELINT equipment, as indicated by the semi-spherical fairings and other small antennas under the rear fuselage. So far there are at least 4 of these modified Tu-154M/Ds (B-4015, B-4024, B-4029 & B-4138). Tu-154M/D (Type I) first entered the service with PLAAF in 1995.
- Last Updated 5/2/11"





Chinese J-STAR B-4015 with "an enlarged under-fuselage fairing reportedly accommodating a ground-mapping synthetic aperture radar."





Chinese J-STAR B-4024





Chinese J-STAR B-4029





Chinese J-STAR B-4138

This video discusses the capabilities of an American J-STAR. We can expect comparable functionality from a Chinese J-STAR.





Modern J-STARs have upgraded displays.


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## cirr



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## cirr




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## cirr

Y-9&#65292;Chinese &#8220;C-130J&#8221;

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## mil-avia

*J-31 stealth aircraft and experimental / concept stealth UAV :




800 × 533 pixels 


Related link 1 and link 2. *

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## Nefory

mil-avia said:


> *J-31 stealth aircraft and experimental / concept stealth UAV :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 800 × 533 pixels
> 
> 
> Related link 1 and link 2. *



That model you are pointing at is an existing project. It's a shipborne unmanned attacker.


----------



## cirr

mil-avia said:


> *J-31 stealth aircraft and experimental / concept stealth UAV :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 800 × 533 pixels
> 
> 
> Related link 1 and link 2. *



This is "Lijian or Sharp Sword&#65292;a joint undertaking by 601 and 320&#65292;of which the 1st flight is expected any time soon.


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## cirr

Y-9&#65306;


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## cirr

J-10B with 11 hardpoints&#65306;

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## Kompromat

Cirr: That is not Y-9, its Y-8F-6000.


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## cirr

Aeronaut said:


> Cirr: That is not Y-9, its Y-8F-6000.



No&#65292;that's an Y-9&#12290;Here is another one&#65306;


----------



## atlantis_cn

Aeronaut said:


> Cirr: That is not Y-9, its Y-8F-6000.



Y-9 and Y-8F-6000 are the same thing.


----------



## Agent_47

*J-10*

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## xuxu1457




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## xuxu1457

cirr said:


>


---------------------------------------------

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## cirr

A new J-10A Regiment created&#65306;






Congratulations to the PLAAF&#65281;

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## cirr

More J-10As join the PLAAF&#65306;











This could be part of the last batch of J-10As&#12290;

Hello J-10Bs

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## hk299792458

"_Blue Army_" of PLAAF...


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## hk299792458

22 female cadet pilots fly along on JL-8 AJT. CCTV had reported recently that female pilots also started to fly with J-10A and J-10S...


----------



## Broccoli

RCS test installation.

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## hk299792458

The 34th J-10A of production patch 6 of J-10A...


















Broccoli said:


> RCS test installation.



Are you sure that this is for RCS evaluation?

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## hk299792458

I would like to get some helps to complet my statistic. I made a table in which I traced the date of first apparition of each J-10A plane from Patch 6, however some are missing. I wil be grateful if someone could help me to complet this table.

Thanks a lot...

#6.01 - 2010 12 05
#6.02 - 2011 11 05
#6.03 - 2010 12 05
#6.04 - 2010 12 05
#6.05 - 
#6.06 - 
#6.07 - 
#6.08 - 2011 05 05
#6.09 - 
#6.10 - 
#6.11 - 
#6.12 - 
#6.13 - 2012 02 24
#6.14 - 2012 02 24
#6.15 - 2012 03 31
#6.16 - 2012 04 21
#6.17 - 2012 02 25
#6.18 - 2012 02 27
#6.19 - 2012 03 16
#6.20 - 2012 03 31
#6.21 - 2012 05 12
#6.22 - 2012 02 25
#6.23 - 2012 03 16
#6.24 - 2012 03 17
#6.25 - 2012 07 22
#6.26 - 2012 09 27
#6.27 - 2012 07 22
#6.28 - 2012 07 22
#6.29 - 2012 07 22
#6.30 - 2012 10 13
#6.31 - 2012 10 13
#6.32 - 
#6.33 - 
#6.34 - 2012 10 13
#6.35 - 
#6.36 - 
#6.37 - 2012 10 13
#6.38 - 
#6.39 - 
#6.40 -

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## Broccoli

hk299792458 said:


> Are you sure that this is for RCS evaluation?



It's certainly very similar installation when compared to what other countries are using. 

National Radar Cross Section Test Facility (NRTF)

Here is mobile version (picture is from 90's) used in Holloman.

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## hk299792458

Broccoli said:


> It's certainly very similar installation when compared to what other countries are using.
> 
> National Radar Cross Section Test Facility (NRTF)
> 
> Here is mobile version (picture is from 90's) used in Holloman.



Thank you.


----------



## xuxu1457

2012.10.31 J-31 first fly

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## xuxu1457

kj-2000&#65292;





INNER

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## 帅的一匹

KJ-2000 is superior in Asian pacific, nice pitcure! China AESA tech is a leading position in the world even compared to USA.

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## cirr

At the foothills of the Himalayas&#65306;

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## hk299792458

Airforce Q-5 night exercise...


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## hk299792458

PLAAF H-6 bombers exercise...


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## hk299792458

Captured from CCTV documentary on AVIC group...

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## cirr

J-15S completed her maiden flight at 10.06 on 3.11.2012. The flight lasted some 10mins&#12290;

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## xuxu1457



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## hk299792458

The 32th J-10A of Batch 6 production...

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## hk299792458

Anyone know if this cockpit shown in the AVIC show room is for *Project 718* (_J-20_) or for *Project 310* ?






Thanks,

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## applesauce

you guys remember when this came out





and it was said to be the j-20 cockpit display?

and people didnt understand why it had a f-35 type outline in the display?

with the 31001 it makes so much more sense now~~~

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## hk299792458

I heard that there will be a press conference organized by AVIC on November 13th during the Zhuhai air show around the *Minshan* and *Jiuzhaigou* engines, someone knows anything about these engines?

"*Minshan*" engine seems to be the one on right hand bottom in this picture, but what are they for? UCAV? Small aircraft? Missile? Civil plane?

If I understood well this pannel, there are more than 10 engine programs under development, both based on 5 different serial core engines from 5, 10, 20, 30 and 35 kg/s of flow intake?






Between the names and the references, I get completely lost...

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## hk299792458

And in the same day, there will have a contract signing ceremony organized by AVIC for *L-15*, someone knows who is the buyer? PAF?

Link


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## cirr

Y-20 to make its maiden flight today&#65311;


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## 帅的一匹

Y-20 is my dream


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## Obambam

You are doing great with the updates hk299792458


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## hk299792458

Chinese air force 81 aerobatic team, with their eight J-10A and J-10S, arrived in Zhuhai. They will perform flight demonstration during the coming Zhuhai Air Show...


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## hk299792458

Some types of aircraft from PLA Air Force will participate to the Zhuhai Air Show 2012, like J-8, J-10A, JH-7A, KJ-200, Z-9...etc.


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## hk299792458

I just wonder why there are no dedicated threads for each kind of chinese military aircrafts...

New photos, very clear, of one J-10S rolling out from factory...

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## 帅的一匹

http://tuku.military.china.com/military/html/2012-11-07/209479_2259505.htm#pic

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## oct605032048



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## oct605032048



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## oct605032048



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## hk299792458

An introduction to part of the chinese aircrafts which will participate to the coming Zhuhai Air Show. We can find J-10A, J-8F, JH-7A, H-6, KJ-200...etc.

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## hk299792458

JF-17 from PAF arrived in Zhuhai Air SHow 2012...






A chinese CCTV journalist walks around a JF-17...






Other aircrafts from chinese army arrived also...






Is it possible to create a sticky thread dedicated for Zhuhai Air Show 2012, so that everyone can post some videos and photos taken from the exhibition?


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## cirr

New J-10B&#65306;

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## bdslph

wish we have the J10 B and JF 17 FC1 BLK 2


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## killerx

bdslph said:


> wish we have the J10 B and JF 17 FC1 BLK 2


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## hk299792458

We can highlight 3 points with this new photo of J-10B -

* This is a new aircraft just rolled out from assembly line => Serial production started?
* The resolution of the photo is not that good to determinate if it's a WS-10 engine or a AL-31FN
* The radome colour is grey => I don't remember in the colour code of PLAAF if it means an ESA radar?


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## applesauce

hk299792458 said:


> We can highlight 3 points with this new photo of J-10B -
> 
> * This is a new aircraft just rolled out from assembly line => Serial production started?
> * The resolution of the photo is not that good to determinate if it's a WS-10 engine or a AL-31FN
> * The radome colour is grey => I don't remember in the colour code of PLAAF if it means an ESA radar?



sources say the following

its part of the first batch
first batch engines is the AL-31
radar is indeed ESA not sure if AESA or PESA


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## hk299792458

J-10B, don't know which one is it...

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## hk299792458

China defined an important 3-steps plan on engines development with *100 billions of RMB* (_Nearly 10 billions &#8364;_). 

The aim of the second step is to reach the world's most advanced level in 2020, and from that point start to lead the world engine's development direction.

Let's see if Chinese people can achieve this very ambitious objective. So far almost all the nation-wide programs like 863, 921...etc have always bring to success and reached the initial defined goal, how will be the future of this one?

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## hk299792458

Artillery units and air force commence genuine confrontation drill...

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## Broccoli




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## 帅的一匹

From the above picture, we see J10B is still using AL31fn, why not WS10A?

due to the low production rate?

Maybe all WS10A is attributed to J11B and J15.
According to WS10A is only operational for duo engine fighters means the endurance and saftey of WS10A is still not that stable as AF31. Sad but we will improve in the future. is there any possibility of &#21033;&#29992;&#21452;&#21457;&#25112;&#26426;&#23545;WS10&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#36793;&#20351;&#29992;&#36793;&#25913;&#36827;&#36793;&#27979;&#35797;&#65292;&#22914;&#26524;&#21452;&#21457;&#25112;&#26426;&#20854;&#20013;&#19968;&#21488;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#29060;&#28779;&#33267;&#23569;&#19981;&#20250;&#22368;&#26426;&#65292;&#20004;&#21488;&#21516;&#26102;&#29060;&#28779;&#30340;&#21487;&#33021;&#24615;&#27604;&#20013;&#24425;&#31080;&#30340;&#20960;&#29575;&#36824;&#23567;&#12290;


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## 帅的一匹

&#22240;&#20026;&#28041;&#21450;&#21040;&#20316;&#25112;&#37096;&#38431;&#65292;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#27809;&#26377;100%&#30340;&#25226;&#25569;&#26159;&#19981;&#33021;&#35013;&#22791;&#21333;&#21457;&#25112;&#26426;&#30340;&#12290;&#30475;&#26469;WS10&#30340;&#19968;&#20123;&#23454;&#27979;&#25968;&#25454;&#36824;&#26159;&#35201;&#38752;J11B&#26469;&#31215;&#32047;&#12290;


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## Esc8781

I'm wondering if China has its own Air Force one.


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## cirr

More and more J-10Bs are starting to appear&#65306;

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## hk299792458

J-15S twin-seat version of J-15, quiet different from Su-27KUB, the twin-seat version of Su-33...

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## terranMarine

Esc8781 said:


> I'm wondering if China has its own Air Force one.



China finds spy bugs in Jiang's Boeing jet - Telegraph

If China want its own Air Force One it would be stupid to buy from USA again


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## hk299792458

A J-10B continues it's RCS test...




































The 40th aircraft of Batch 6 production of J-10A starts flying...


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## cirr

KJ-200 based on Y-9&#65306;

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## hk299792458

SEAD exercise of Lanzhou military region with its' JH-7A...






1 AWAC KJ-200 + several Su-27SK vs. 1 GX-3 long range jamming aircraft + 1 H-6 bomber + 2 J-10A + 2 J-8...






A logistic drill involving more than 80 PLAAF's aircrafts in the North-West...


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## hk299792458

Crash of a *J-7* (_or *J-8*...??_) in the city of Shantou...


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## cirr

J-10A Block VII starts&#65306;






Plus J-10AS Block I and II&#12290;

J-10A Block VII starts&#65306;






Plus J-10AS Block I and II&#12290;

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## cirr

J-10B:

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## sweetgrape

Operation Chang kong 2012, In Chengdu military region.


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## hk299792458

2nd and 3th aircrafts of Batch 7 of production...

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## hk299792458

An Air-Ground attack training, carried out by a chinese woman pilot with a J-10A, a very first in the history of PLAAF...

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## hk299792458

More than 100 PLAAF's combat aircrafts were running into a kind of Red Flag combat simulation...

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## xuxu1457

hk299792458 said:


> More than 100 PLAAF's combat aircrafts were running into a kind of Red Flag combat simulation...


108 combat aircrafts fighting for ten Golden Helmet

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## sweetgrape

*Female pilot which drive J10 carry out Air-to-ground strike mission independently.*

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## xuxu1457

Exhaust trail left after the fighters air combat

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## hk299792458

A communication division's drill...


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## hk299792458

Some CG images of Y-20, the coming chinese military transport aircraft who will carry out maiden flight shortly...

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## hk299792458

The last CG image to show the difference between Y-20, IL-76MD and A400M...

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## hk299792458

Some pictures I collected from chinese R&D documents, showing some parts of this Y-20...

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## hk299792458

More than 170 aircrafts from PLAAF and air-defense divisions have participated to a combat simulation in Nanjing military region...


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## hk299792458

The recruitment campaign of year 2013 for PLAAF has just started, the selection criteria are tightened further this year as the number of canadidates is still increasing.

Objective of PLAAF in 2013 is to train 1100 pilots (_recruited in 2009 as the whole curriculum lasts for 4 years to become an aircraft pilot_).


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## mosu

Cashed-up Chinese aviation industry spreads their wings

The sale of one of the world&#8217;s top aircraft leasing companies to a Chinese consortium is the boldest signal yet that China&#8217;s aviation industry will increasingly look to the cash-rich home market for specialist finance to support its expanding fleet.

International Lease Finance Corp (ILFC), the aviation arm of U.S. insurer AIG which confirmed the $4.8 billion sale on Monday, joins a growing number of homegrown Chinese leasing firms looking to exploit the world&#8217;s fastest growing air market.

For China, the rise of a powerful air finance industry is a third pillar in its aviation development, alongside parts manufacturing and assembly for foreign planemakers like Airbus and Beijing&#8217;s own Comac C919 commercial jetliner project.

&#8220;It&#8217;s a huge investment and (ILFC) are the second biggest leasing company in the world,&#8221; said Paul Sheridan, chief Asia consultant for specialist aviation think-tank Ascend.

China is seen as one of the most promising markets for aircraft leasing, in which airlines rent aircraft to keep the cost of ownership off their balance sheets.

The world&#8217;s second-largest economy will need 5,260 new aircraft worth $670 billion through 2031, according to Boeing Co. About half of these new planes would be owned by leasing firms, adding about $100 billion to the market size which is expected to rise to $268 billion in the next two decades.

PLANE PURCHASES NOT KEEPING UP WITH DEMAND

China is a major purchaser from both Airbus and Boeing , often in batches of 100 or more aircraft to coincide with state visits in the spirit of balancing U.S. and European supplies.

But government-coordinated purchases have failed to keep pace with demand, leaving a gap in the market for lessors armed with speculative orders.

&#8220;We believe that there are not enough aircraft in order in China at the moment. (Buying ILFC) will help Chinese airlines to get more aircraft,&#8221; Ascend&#8217;s Sheridan said.

Until now, that has been an advantage for ILFC and its main rival GECAS, the air leasing arm of General Electric , as they compete with China&#8217;s own domestic lessors.

&#8220;They are growing but not at the expense of ILFC,&#8221; said Henri Courpron, the chief executive of ILFC, which is expected to remain U.S.-based with the same management after the sale.

&#8220;We have something that they don&#8217;t have &#8211; an order book,&#8221; he said before the deal was announced.

Chinese lessors have so far been growing by doing sale and leasebacks with cash-constrained airlines and by purchasing from other leasing companies.

ILFC owns or manages around 1,000 jets and has some 230 aircraft on order. China is already a major outlet for its planes &#8211; it has around a 35 percent market share there.

Meanwhile, China&#8217;s domestic leasing industry is growing.

ICBC Leasing and CDB Leasing Co Ltd are both owned by well-capitalized banks &#8212; Industrial and Commercial Bank of China and China Development Bank 
China Everbright Ltd&#8217;s China Aircraft Leasing Co Ltd made its name on the international stage in July at an airshow in Farnborough by committing to buy 36 Airbus&#8217; A320s worth $3.1 billion.

And China has also been spreading its wings abroad.

Bank of China bought Singapore Aircraft Leasing Enterprise (SALE) in 2006 and renamed it BOC Aviation. Hong Kong Aviation Capital (HKAC) acquired Allco Aviation in 2009 as a route into the international market, which is estimated to need $4 trillion of new aircraft over the next 20 years, with about half owned by lessors.

PILES OF CASH

For now the gap between the international market leaders and Chinese rivals is large &#8211; the fleet value of the biggest, BOC Aviation, is less than a fifth of GECAS and a quarter of ILFC&#8217;s.

But Chinese financiers in the aircraft industry have been growing rapidly for a decade, with additional impetus provided in 2007 when Beijing lifted a 10-year ban on banks conducting leasing, which had been imposed in response to reckless investment and poor management in the 1980s and 1990s.

China&#8217;s big banks are sitting on piles of cash thanks to strong economic growth and state bailouts over the past decade which have together amounted to more than $500 billion.

The ILFC deal, involving a consortium headed by asset manager New China Trust, which is one-fifth owned by Britain&#8217;s Barclays , will also help bring more Chinese capital from banks into a global business.

BOC Aviation Chief Executive Robert Martin says he expects to clock growth of about $1 billion each year over the next five years, raising China&#8217;s share in its portfolio to 25 percent from the current 18 percent.

&#8220;We are a capital-dedicated lease operating company and will grow roughly from $8 billion today and to $12-13 billion in five years time,&#8221; he said.

Funding for this pace of growth appears to be available in abundance &#8211; CDB Leasing just concluded a $1.5 billion bond offering after receiving $16.5 billion in orders.

Aircraft makers are aware of the financial muscle these institutions are beginning to flex.

Chinese and other Asian banks are offering funds into the aircraft market as some European banks retreat due to the region&#8217;s financial crisis and tougher capital rules.

&#8220;There is a lot of Chinese money and there has been a huge growth in Chinese leasing companies over the last five, six years, in particular it&#8217;s promoted by government policy,&#8221; said Andy Solem, vice president, sales, China & North Asia Bombardier Commercial Aircraft at a recent air show.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t see that slowing down. All the big banks have leasing arms or subsidiaries, which do leasing. They are buying more and more airplanes.

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## mosu



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## SinoChallenger

hk299792458 said:


> More than 170 aircrafts from PLAAF and air-defense divisions have participated to a combat simulation in Nanjing military region...


Happened at the same time CMS aircraft entered Diaoyu Island airspace. The "exercise" was actually mobilization.

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## hk299792458

More and more PLAAF's trainings are in free combat mode to be closer to real combat's condition...


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## hk299792458

One of the J-10B continues it's RCS evaluation...

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## hk299792458

Combat simulation guided by *KJ-200* and *KJ-2000* AWACS...


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## sweetgrape

*Everest and J-11*

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## hk299792458

*Su-27SK* patrolling through Mount Everest...

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## hk299792458

*J-10S*, *J-10B* et *J-20*...

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## Akasa

hk299792458 said:


> *J-10S*, *J-10B* et *J-20*...



Merci beaucoup! Tes photographs sont excellentes!


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## Backbencher

When is China planning to induct its first squad of j20's ? Any official statements ?


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## hk299792458




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## hk299792458

The development of the new tactical combat simulation platform is finished -


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## homing28




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## giant panda

shenyang J-16






chengdu J-10B


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## hk299792458

Guangzhou military region's "_Sharp Sword 20_" drill, with nearly 90 aircrafts and 10 000 men...













New network-oriented training platform which can train several pilots and simulate different types of aircraft in the same time.


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## hk299792458

hk299792458 said:


> Guangzhou military region's "_Sharp Sword 20_" drill, with nearly 90 aircrafts and 10 000 men...



More details...


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## Sasquatch

Experimental aircraft model ?


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## viper46

testing on F15 ... cool


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## v9s

Hu Songshan said:


> Experimental aircraft model ?



Looks like a model of the F-15

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Hu Songshan said:


> Experimental aircraft model ?



Since China can't have F-15 for real combat practice, a morckup simulation to obtaim some valuable informations on this aircraft is better than nothing.


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## Sasquatch

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Since China can't have F-15 for real combat practice, a morckup simulation to obtaim some valuable informations on this aircraft is better than nothing.



Looks like the NASA F-15 without the canards, but you possibly could be right, probably hear of it more later.


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## hk299792458

I got a video in which we can find this image, it's a kind of aircraft carrier landing simulation study...


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## hk299792458

Training in 2013 is started...


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## hk299792458

Training of J-10A...






Training of HQ-9 air defense division...


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## hk299792458

Warplanes: Chinese Ejection Seats



> *Chinese Ejection Seats*
> 
> January 9, 2013: China has developed and put into service a locally manufactured third-generation ejection seat for its jet fighters. This type of ejection seat contains sensors and a microprocessor that adjust the thrust of the rockets that propel the ejection seat (and the pilot) from the aircraft, taking into account the speed and direction of the aircraft. Most ejection seats in service are third-generation. The fourth-generation seats allow the pilot to control the movement of the seat while ejecting.
> 
> Ejection seats costs between $200,000-300,000. Most ejection seats weigh about half a ton and are complex bits of technology. There's a lot that can go wrong but rarely do you have accidents, and those are usually because of poor maintenance. Ejection seats became essential as military aircraft became so fast that a pilot could not safely climb out of the cockpit and jump. With the higher speed, there was the danger of hitting the tail. Also, escaping pilots were often injured or stunned and unable to get out quickly enough.
> 
> The first ejection seat design was developed in Germany, where the seats were first installed in their He 219 night fighters, in 1943. These used compressed air to propel the seat out of the aircraft. A year later rocket propelled seats were installed in the He-162 jet fighter. By the end of the war, all of Germany's jets were equipped with rocket propelled ejection seats. While the Swedish firm SAAB had also developed a rocket propelled ejection seat, it was British firm Martin-Baker that jumped in after World War II and created a design that quickly filled the needs of most Western air forces, including the RAF (British Royal Air Force).
> 
> The U.S. Air Force long insisted on using only American made ejection systems but the U.S. Navy stayed with Martin-Baker because the American ejection seat did not function as well at very low altitudes (where a lot of naval aviators have to eject during carrier operations). Martin-Baker supplies about two-thirds of the ejection seats for Western fighter aircraft. The other major supplier of ejection seats was the Soviet Union. Those Soviet era manufacturers continue to produce good ejection seats for Russian aircraft and some foreign customers. China is becoming a major player in this area, usually exporting Chinese made ejection seats in Chinese made aircraft. The Czech Republic and Romania also manufacture lower end ejection seats. Western manufacturers produce about a thousand seats a year, while Russia and China produce less than half as many, almost all of those seats are for locally made aircraft.
> 
> Over 10,000 aircrew have successfully used ejection seats since World War II. Very few have died in ejection seat related accidents.


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## hk299792458

PAAF develops more and more it's MRO capacity, here a video broadcasted by CCTV today on a simulation exercice with a J-10A. We can see in the video that the MRO technicians uploaded the diagnostic datas to a special website which returns and prints out automatically the repair orders.


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## giant panda




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## hk299792458

The PLAAF of Nankin military region carried out a free combat training...






The general staff of Chinese army demandes all divisions to train in real combat condition...






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

Skimming flight of Z-9 from PLAAF...


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## Nishan_101

giant panda said:


>



does China has developed anything from Y-9 like of CN-295 or C-27J like twin engine plane.???


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## CaptainProton

Does China build strategic bomber such as B-2 or Tu-160?I think that China hasn't a strategic long-range bomber. But I heard that China is planning to build something like that. Russians have their project PAK-DA, USA plans to build a next-generation bomber "B-3". What about China?


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## terranMarine

CaptainProton said:


> Does China build strategic bomber such as B-2 or Tu-160?I think that China hasn't a strategic long-range bomber. But I heard that China is planning to build something like that. Russians have their project PAK-DA, USA plans to build a next-generation bomber "B-3". What about China?



China has the H-6 strategic bomber, its max speed is around Mach 1 unlike Tu-160 where it can reach Mach 2. A stealth bomber such as the B-2 could be in the planning but other projects have more priority.


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## hk299792458

Xiomao WANG from CETC, chief engineer of *KJ-2000* program, won the 2012's special price of _State Scientific and Technological Award_.














































Henri K.


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## hk299792458

3 documentaries around the development of AWACS *KJ-2000*...
















Henri K.


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## yusheng

Chinese J11B equipped with new TAIHANG engine, note thir white engine tail

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## sweetgrape

New J10 waiting for testing.

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## sweetgrape

JH-7 with Electronic pod.. JH-7 is cool plane, cooler than J-10, more like JH-7.

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## hk299792458

PLAAF has developped a dynamic simulation model...

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## 帅的一匹

From the Latest pictures J10a of testing fly before induction you can see some of it packed with WS10A. It prove the engine has matured to have trust from PLAAF for single engine fighter.


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## 帅的一匹

14 J10A and several JF17 is undergoing fly test before induction at the same time in one pitch.


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## Gentelman

PLAAF needs to improve its engines.....
we seriously needs u.. 
with imlroved engines PLAAF will be a way ahead of all regional powers...


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## Gentelman

wanglaokan said:


> 14 J10A and several JF17 is undergoing fly test before induction at the same time in one pitch.



for whon JF-17 is undergoing fly test??
is those r for PAF or PLAAF is inducing them?? or some other purpose maybe?


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## hk299792458

wanglaokan said:


> From the Latest pictures J10a of testing fly before induction you can see some of it packed with WS10A. It prove the engine has matured to have trust from PLAAF for single engine fighter.



No J-10A is packed with WS-10A, even though the engine has entered into it's maturation.

Changing engine means changin the aerodynamic of the aircraft (not the same air intake flow, not the same flight caracteristic, and not the same FBW...etc...etc), see example of J-11B...

Henri K.

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## hk299792458




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## hk299792458

HQ-12 from PLAAF...


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## 帅的一匹

Gentelman said:


> for whon JF-17 is undergoing fly test??
> is those r for PAF or PLAAF is inducing them?? or some other purpose maybe?


Should be for PAF if I am not wrong.

Any info of J10b block 2 induction?


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## hk299792458

CCTV-13 published a video on this maiden flight of Y-20

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## LTE-TDD

Y20 first fly video [??]????????-20????_????_???


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## hk299792458

An another video from CCTV-13, at the end it shows the landing of Y-20 in a different angle...

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## sweetgrape



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## hk299792458



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## sweetgrape

Y20
[video]http://f.youku.com/player/getFlvPath/sid/00_00/st/flv/fileid/0300020100510415FBE71600D3A3B667E7A9DD-FE99-02B9-EF73-C2B2B2176FCB?K=b4b00a86b0700c6b28285437[/video]


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## hk299792458

New video from CCTV-13 showing the take-off and the landing of Y-20 in it's maiden flight...






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

A HD civilian video of *Y-20*...

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## hk299792458

A new generation of ACMI is entered into service in PLAAF...






And also 3 new kind of training simulation missiles...


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## ChineseTiger1986

The video footage of H-6 flying at super low altitude.

http://player.youku.com/player.php/sid/XNTEwMjYxNzc2/v.swf


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## hk299792458

Training of J-10A...






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

Exercice of PLAAF...






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

Su-27SK, Su-27UBK, J-11A and J-11B from 1st division of PLAAF carried out their last training before the chinese new year...






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

The two chief engineers, one of J-15 program, the another for Y-20, have received 180k&#8364; of bonus each for their work...






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

Training of PLAAF...


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## hk299792458

Exercice of PLAAF's *HQ-12* SAM...

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## hk299792458




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## Akasa

Twisted cassegrain radar aboard a Su-27UBK.

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## hk299792458

SinoSoldier said:


> Possibly the first ever photo of J-11B's AESA radar. It was designed by the 607 institute and was selected after it lost out to the 14 institute's AESA bid for the J-10B because they couldn't pack the T/R modules too concisely; it's the same model used aboard the J-15 and J-16.



This is not a *J-11B*. 

From the canapy and the wing you can see that this is just an original *Su-27UBK*...

Henri K.

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## Akasa

hk299792458 said:


> This is not a *J-11B*.
> 
> From the canapy and the wing you can see that this is just an original *Su-27UBK*...
> 
> Henri K.



Thanks for the input! BTW, how exactly do you distinguish by looking at the canopy and wings?


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## hk299792458

SinoSoldier said:


> Thanks for the input! BTW, how exactly do you distinguish by looking at the canopy and wings?



On a J-11B, the end pylon is specific for PL-8, we can easily distinguish it's L-form.

For the canopy, maybe I made a mistake, it could also be a Su-27SK. The reinforcement frame exists also in the single-seat version...

Another external sign - The IRST of J-11B is positionned on the right hand side whereas on a Su-27SK or Su-27UBK it is positionned in the middle.





J-11B -






Henri K.

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## Akasa

hk299792458 said:


> On a J-11B, the end pylon is specific for PL-8, we can easily distinguish it's L-form.
> 
> For the canopy, maybe I made a mistake, it could also be a Su-27SK. The reinforcement frame exists also in the single-seat version...
> 
> Another external sign - The IRST of J-11B is positionned on the right hand side whereas on a Su-27SK or Su-27UBK it is positionned in the middle.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-11B -
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.



Thanks for your hard work! But I'm pretty sure that the J-11B's IR tracker is in the center.

Photos: Shenyang J-11B Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net


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## hk299792458

PLAAF training...






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

PLAAF's training...






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

A short documentary of a PLAAF flight school...






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

The history of a flight instructor of PLAAF











Henri K.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Another brand new J-10B spotted with the WS-10X engine. Notice this is not the J-10B #1035 from 2011.

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## hk299792458

Training of an air defense unit...






CCTV has published some footages on Y-20 today...





















Henri K.

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## hk299792458

Three AWACS *KJ-2000* from Nankin military region tested 24h non stop air surveillance...






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

SAM v.s. Figthers...






Patrols and training of *Su-27SK*, *Su-27UBK* and *J-11A* in Tibet...






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

Training of August 1st acrobatic team...






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

16 female student pilots with their JL-8 trainer...






Henri K.


----------



## hurt



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## sweetgrape

Blur satallite picture can show the big development of China, Go 






*J20*

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## sweetgrape

*Yanliang *



































Continue:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/chinese-defence/84213-chinese-navy-plan-news-discussions-53.html

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## hk299792458

One day with a Captain of August 1st acrobatic team...






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

New flight suit entered into service in PLAAF...






Henri K.

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## fatman17

*China Needs Advanced Jet Trainers But L-15 Not Yet Confirmed*



AIN Defense Perspective » April 19, 2013 by Chris Pocock



China displayed a prototype L-15 advanced jet trainer at the 2009 Dubai Air Show.

The fatal crash of an Su-27UBK fighter trainer of the China&#8217;s People Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) in late March has called attention to the lack of advanced jet trainers for pilots of China&#8217;s third-generation fighters, the Su-27, J-10 and J-11. But although the L-15 has been under development by Nanchang-based Hongdu Aviation Industry Group (HAIG), there is no confirmation from within China that the PLAAF has placed a substantial production order. AIN previously reported that 250 AI222-25F turbofans had been ordered from the Ukraine, to power the L-15.


Chinese media reported recently that the first batch of L-15s, 12 in all, is to be delivered by year-end. But it seems that most, if not all, of these aircraft will be exported. Although acknowledging the need for new advanced jet trainers, the PLAAF has apparently ordered only four L-15s to date. The PLAAF would likely need approximately 400 such aircraft to meet the growing demands of its new fighter fleet in the years to come.

The L-15 faces strong competition from an alternative advanced jet trainer developed by Guizhou Aircraft Industry (GAI), the L-9. This is an update of the JL-7 produced at Guizhou for many years and derived from the Soviet-era MiG-21U. The L-9 was previously known as the FTC-2000 Shanying (Mountain Eagle). Both HAIG and GAI are subsidiaries of state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (Avic).

The training of a PLAAF pilot starts with the CJ-6 basic trainer and then progresses to the HAIG L-8 jet (more commonly known by its export designation of K-8) and the JL-7 for more demanding training. Those assigned to fly the Su-27/J-11 then move onto the small fleet of 40 Su-27UBKs, now down to 39. China now has more than 300 Su-27/J-11 third-generation fighters.

Avic is currently developing an engine named the Minshan for the L-15, but the initial production types of the L-15 are evidently powered by the Ukrainian AI222. The aircraft itself resembles Russia&#8217;s Yak-130 advanced jet trainer.

The first L-15 prototype made its maiden flight in 2006.





Tags: AircraftAviationHongdu Aviation Industry GroupSukhoi Su-27Jet trainerChina Aviation Industry Corporation IAviation Industry Corporation of ChinaHongdu L-15Guizhou JL-9

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## hk299792458

April 20th, 2nd flight of *Y-20* which had last for 1h16...











Henri K.

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## hk299792458

*Y-20* carried out it's 3rd flight today...

Hereunder are yesterday's pictures.





















Henri K.

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## hk299792458

Amateur video of the 2 test flights of Y-20, on April 20th and 21st...






Henri K.


----------



## fatman17

*S-70C-2 Black Hawk*

24 Sikorsky S-70C-2s equipped with a nose-mounted weather radar and upgraded engines (T700-GE-701A, 1,723shp) were bought in 1985 (S/N LH922xx, 942xx). Its cruise speed is 270km and range is 560km. The helicopter can be fitted with shoulder-mounted stub wings with pylons able to carry 4 external fuel tanks so that a longer range could be achieved but at the cost of increasing drag. Most Black Hawks are used for troop transportation and SAR in Tibet and in Xinjiang, due to their excellent performance at high altitude. As the result a least three were lost in the harsh environment. Some Black Hawks were equipped flare dispensers and 12.7mm machine guns when flying logistical missions along the Sino-Indian border. Due to the shortage of spare parts caused by the US embargo, many are thought to be grounded and their missions have been replaced by the newly imported Mi-17-V7/171Es. Recent images indicate some S-70C-2s have been upgraded with a Chinese IFF antenna on the nose as well as a pair of communication antennas on top of and beneath the boom. There were reports that China obtained the much needed spare parts from US for the purpose of "humanitarian missions" but this has not been confirmed. It now appears that Changhe is capable of overhauling the helicopter in addition to manufacturing most of the parts. Consequently it has been rumored that Changhe is trying to reverse-engineer the Black Hawk design as Z-20 (?). 

- Last Updated 1/16/13


----------



## Bamboo Castle



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## hk299792458

Bamboo Castle said:


>



This is russian...

Henri K.

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## Bamboo Castle

hk299792458 said:


> This is russian...
> 
> Henri K.



But, this is Chinese:

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## hk299792458

Air Force Engineering University : Mission responsibility paved the way to the battlefield






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

New real-time monitoring assessment system help the Air Force flight training






Henri K.

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## asianamerican

hk299792458 said:


> *Y-20* carried out it's 3rd flight today...
> 
> Hereunder are yesterday's pictures.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.



This cargo plane looks so funny. Which came first angry bird or this? And why does China military have so many color scheme? They should standardize, so it looks more professional.

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## Fsjal

asianamerican said:


> This cargo plane looks so funny. Which came first angry bird or this? And why does China military have so many color scheme? They should standardize, so it looks more professional.



This is a new paint scheme they are using. Anyway, the PLA is changing, and becomes more western than its traditional, communist style


----------



## hk299792458

First flight training's data preparation center in use






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

A 22 minutes's documentary of a flight combat simulation between J-10 and J-11, supported by somes AWACS and HQ-12 SAM for each side...






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

J-10 figthers airfield maintenance






J-10 fighter complex weather uninterrupted aerial refueling's success rate of 100%






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

Thousands of recruits night parachuting






Henri K.

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## sweetgrape

From guangzhou military region.

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## xuxu1457

All type of J-10





J-10 of Navy

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## Fsjal

sweetgrape said:


> From guangzhou military region.



Why the different camo. Old pics?


----------



## hk299792458

J10 pilot "Golden Helmet" Dream






Henri K.

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## xuxu1457




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## hk299792458

Combat training to enhance air defense capability






Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

2013 Annual Air Force cadet selection's work begins today






Chinese Air Force - Digital station to achieve precision support






Henri K.


----------



## mil-avia

*Earlier variant J-8 interceptors at night :







Related link 1 and link 2. *


----------



## cirr

Y-20 20002&#65292;the 2nd prototype has rolled off the assembly line&#12290;

Congratulations to all&#65281;

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## hk299792458

Helicopter gunships firing for the first time in desert






Henri K.

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## xuxu1457

May 24, 2013, at the 16th China Beijing International High-tech Expo, AVIC subsidiary R & D team, show the world's largest 3D printing titanium aircraft parts, 5M long 















J-31 at least has four big 3D printing titanium main bearing components, also used in J-20,J-15,J-16

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## hk299792458

PLA Air Force's pilots parachute training on sea






Henri K.


----------



## mil-avia

*Very very large image showing screws and outer panels of J-6 fighter :




2584 × 3539 pixels


Related link 1 and link 2. *

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## mil-avia

*Screws and outer panels of J-6 fighter :







Related link(s). *


----------



## Zarvan

xuxu1457 said:


> May 24, 2013, at the 16th China Beijing International High-tech Expo, AVIC subsidiary R & D team, show the world's largest 3D printing titanium aircraft parts, 5M long
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J-31 at least has four big 3D printing titanium main bearing components, also used in J-20,J-15,J-16



Is this the third picture of Fighter Jet flying in the air real ?

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## That Guy

hk299792458 said:


> Helicopter gunships firing for the first time in desert
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.



Is it just me, or did that missile seem laser guided? And if it was, it seemed to have slightly missed the mark. I don't know, it's hard to tell from the video.


----------



## xuxu1457

Zarvan said:


> Is this the third picture of Fighter Jet flying in the air real ?



Yes, J-31 first fly in October 2012


----------



## mil-avia

*Chinese publication cover showing J-6 fighter :







Related link(s) : Cutaway diagrams of J-6 aircrafts. *


----------



## grey boy 2

*KJ-3000 AWACS unveiled? &#38663;&#25788;&#65292;&#23454;&#25293;&#21040;&#31354;&#35686;3000*

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## Fsjal

grey boy 2 said:


> *KJ-3000 AWACS unveiled? &#38663;&#25788;&#65292;&#23454;&#25293;&#21040;&#31354;&#35686;3000*



What's the difference between this and KJ-2000?


----------



## razgriz19

mil-avia said:


> *Chinese publication cover showing J-6 fighter :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Related link(s) : Cutaway diagrams of J-6 aircrafts. *



where the heck does it carry fuel?


----------



## untitled

razgriz19 said:


> where the heck does it carry fuel?



What do you mean ?


----------



## razgriz19

That Guy said:


> Is it just me, or did that missile seem laser guided? And if it was, it seemed to have slightly missed the mark. I don't know, it's hard to tell from the video.








i think the missile was this one. ADK-10
looks like a laser guided missiles.



persona_non_grata said:


> What do you mean ?



the engines take more than half of the fuselage, then you also have two nose intakes. There's barely any space left.
so where does it carry internal fuel?


----------



## That Guy

razgriz19 said:


> i think the missile was this one. ADK-10
> looks like a laser guided missiles.



So, I'm probably right. It doesn't seem very accurate though.


----------



## TaimiKhan

That Guy said:


> So, I'm probably right. It doesn't seem very accurate though.



They are firing the HJ-9 ATGM most probably as these helicopters carry the HJ-9 missiles mostly. Its not the HJ-10. And they hit the target 100% accurately. If you closely watch the white color target, you will see that its made up of cloth, thus the missiles teared the cloth and exploded behind it and you can see the white cloth fluttering due to the shock wave of the blast. 

Its either HJ-9 or may be HJ-8, chinese members might be more accurate about the type, but my guess is HJ-9.


----------



## That Guy

TaimiKhan said:


> They are firing the HJ-9 ATGM most probably as these helicopters carry the HJ-9 missiles mostly. Its not the HJ-10. And they hit the target 100% accurately.* If you closely watch the white color target, you will see that its made up of cloth, thus the missiles teared the cloth and exploded behind it and you can see the white cloth fluttering due to the shock wave of the blast.
> *
> Its either HJ-9 or may be HJ-8, chinese members might be more accurate about the type, but my guess is HJ-9.



I don't know about that, it seemed to hit the bottom of the target, so it seemed a bit off. Don't get me wrong, it's impressive and would be devastating on drones, but it seems like the Chinese are still trying to test and improve it more before deploying it in large numbers, especially if it turns out to be the HJ-10.


----------



## Beast

That Guy said:


> So, I'm probably right. It doesn't seem very accurate though.



Please dont talk nonsense. This is what happen when people who don't understand Chinese and watch a Chinese video.

The first shot definitely hit the bull eye. It pierce thru the soft target board and ignite. The second one is so blurt that you can make out it hit or not?

Anyway, this is a PR video. They precisely show the helo successful hit the target, I don't know how you conclude its not accurate?


----------



## That Guy

Beast said:


> Please dont talk nonsense. This is what happen when people who don't understand Chinese and watch a Chinese video.
> 
> The first shot definitely hit the bull eye. It pierce thru the soft target board and ignite. The second one is so blurt that you can make out it hit or not?
> 
> Anyway, this is a PR video. They precisely show the helo successful hit the target, I don't know how you conclude its not accurate?



To be fair,I didn't say it wasn't accurate, I said it was hard to tell from the video and it didn't _seem_ accurate. Again, take nothing I say seriously, because I know next to nothing about missile technology.


----------



## untitled

razgriz19 said:


> the engines take more than half of the fuselage, then you also have two nose intakes. There's barely any space left.
> so where does it carry internal fuel?



Where do most aircraft carry their internal fuel ... yup wings


----------



## razgriz19

persona_non_grata said:


> Where do most aircraft carry their internal fuel ... yup wings



Im aware of that very well, but only commercial/general aviation aircrafts do that, not fighters. I think. The wings arn't nearly as thick as they would have to be to carry fuel in FIGHTERS. I could be wrong though. Plus all that G load...


----------



## Audio

razgriz19 said:


> where the heck does it carry fuel?



Had several tanks, main ones are behind the cockpit, infront of the engines. look for keywords "depositos" and "litres". Main ones are #52. There's also one at #92, to the rear and the side of the engines. Open in new window for 1600x1100.

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## gambit

> persona_non_grata said:
> 
> 
> 
> Where do most aircraft carry their internal fuel ... yup wings
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> razgriz19 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im aware of that very well, but only commercial/general aviation aircrafts do that, not fighters. I think. The wings arn't nearly as thick as they would have to be to carry fuel in FIGHTERS. I could be wrong though. Plus all that G load...
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Fighters *DO* carry internal wing fuel. Even the small F-16 does it.

Fuel stores, usage, and transfer works this way:

The engine is fed from fuselage tanks. As fuel is depleted from the fuselage tanks, fuel is transferred from the wing stores, external wing and internal wing. Fuel is transferred up from the external tank and into the wing's internal tank, then fuel is transferred from the internal wing tank into the fuselage tanks.

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## j20blackdragon

Sharp Sword UCAV in the background.

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## hk299792458

Chinese Air Force - Focus on strengthening *J-11B* maritime low altitude penetration training






Henri K.

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## cirr

J-16 carrying a pair of PL10s&#65306;

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## hk299792458

More than 40 war planes in a combat simulation exercise of Guangzhou military region...






Blue sky dream of a young pilot






Henri K.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## DANGER-ZONE

cirr said:


> J-16 carrying a pair of PL10s&#65306;



Any close up image ?


----------



## xuxu1457

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Any close up image ?



old pics of J-16

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## cirr

J-10C&#65292;a multi-role fighter with enhanced ground attack capability:











Major improvements include conformal fuel tanks&#12289;AESA&#12289;avionics upgrade&#12289;wingtip pylons etc&#12290;

First prototype possible by the end of this year&#12290;

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## hk299792458

Henri K.

Reactions: Like Like:
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----------



## Major Shaitan Singh




----------



## jamesseo89

fatman17 said:


> *S-70C-2 Black Hawk*
> 
> 24 Sikorsky S-70C-2s equipped with a nose-mounted weather radar and upgraded engines (T700-GE-701A, 1,723shp) were bought in 1985 (S/N LH922xx, 942xx). Its cruise speed is 270km and range is 560km. The helicopter can be fitted with shoulder-mounted stub wings with pylons able to carry 4 external fuel tanks so that a longer range could be achieved but at the cost of increasing drag. Most Black Hawks are used for troop transportation and SAR in Tibet and in Xinjiang, due to their excellent performance at high altitude. As the result a least three were lost in the harsh environment. Some Black Hawks were equipped flare dispensers and 12.7mm machine guns when flying logistical missions along the Sino-Indian border. Due to the shortage of spare parts caused by the US embargo, many are thought to be grounded and their missions have been replaced by the newly imported Mi-17-V7/171Es. Recent images indicate some S-70C-2s have been upgraded with a Chinese IFF antenna on the nose as well as a pair of communication antennas on top of and beneath the boom. There were reports that China obtained the much needed spare parts from US for the purpose of "humanitarian missions" but this has not been confirmed. It now appears that Changhe is capable of overhauling the helicopter in addition to manufacturing most of the parts. Consequently it has been rumored that Changhe is trying to reverse-engineer the Black Hawk design as Z-20 (?).
> 
> - Last Updated 1/16/13



I would have suggested that they should bring one now.


----------



## Broccoli



Reactions: Like Like:
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## Windjammer



Reactions: Like Like:
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## hk299792458

The new AESA radars for the 2nd generation of AWACS, *KJ-500* (_??_), are currently in flight test on a test bed of CFTE.











Henri K.


----------



## cirr

Radar dome for a new generation of AWACS&#65306;

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## cirr

Some old pics of Y-20&#65306;

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## cirr

Taihang powered J-11B&#65306;

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## sweetgrape



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## hk299792458

Firing training of young pilotes on *JL-8*.






Henri K.


----------



## nomi007

A recent image suggested that JC-8F can also carry various ELINT, SIGINT and SAR pods externally (e.g. KZ900)

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## nalan




----------



## cirr

H-6K deployed 






Each carrying 6 CJ-20 cruise missiles&#12290;

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## Nishan_101

cirr said:


> H-6K deployed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Each carrying 6 CJ-20 cruise missiles&#12290;



So it means like the Past China and Pakistan used to hide everything from Public. As few days ago we might have heard that it had some first flight.

So it means that JF-17 Block-IIs and dual seat....

And J-10B is also operational but not disclosed...


----------



## cirr

Nishan_101 said:


> So it means like the Past China and Pakistan used to hide everything from Public. As few days ago we might have heard that it had some first flight.
> 
> So it means that JF-17 Block-IIs and dual seat....
> 
> And J-10B is also operational but not disclosed...



Sure&#65292;sure&#12290;

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## Nishan_101

cirr said:


> Sure&#65292;sure&#12290;



I think China and Pakistan both can work on this finished product like:

It can be a good aircraft for AEW&Cs role, ELINT/SIGNIT, MPA(better than P-8Is) and may be something else.

Although I might not be sounding good now but it can work.

But please bring some more specification and pictures of this plane and now I am sure there is a successor to the B-52s and even B1B Lancer.

Hurrah!!! All Hail Pakistan 

Please make a new threat of it in China Defence....

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## hk299792458

Guangzhou Military Region : Air Force carried out day and night high-intensity combat simulation, we have here a J-10A vs Su-27SK/J-11A with support of AWACS from both side.






Henri K.


----------



## cirr

Nishan_101 said:


> I think China and Pakistan both can work on this finished product like:
> 
> It can be a good aircraft for AEW&Cs role, ELINT/SIGNIT, MPA(better than P-8Is) and may be something else.
> 
> Although I might not be sounding good now but it can work.
> 
> But please bring some more specification and pictures of this plane and now I am sure there is a successor to the B-52s and even B1B Lancer.
> 
> Hurrah!!! All Hail Pakistan
> 
> Please make a new threat of it in China Defence....

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## Nishan_101

cirr said:


>



I am sure that now Russians might be able to sell India some old stuff like their own bombers with upgrades as there is a big possibility of war between China and India.

I think India is now keenly looking to have:
30 C-17s
20+ C-130J other than 12 they will have.
30+ P-8Is
100++ Apaches
200 MMRCAs may be direct import.
Some additional equipment from EU, USA and Russia.


----------



## cirr



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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> Guangzhou Military Region : Air Force carried out day and night high-intensity combat simulation, we have here a J-10A vs Su-27SK/J-11A with support of AWACS from both side.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.



The PLAAF must have done modification to J-11A/Su-27SK to allow them to have domestic datalink. Safe to say, possible modification of it avionics to allow firing of domestic weapon like PL-12.


----------



## Black Eagle 90

Beast said:


> The PLAAF must have done modification to J-11A/Su-27SK to allow them to have domestic datalink. Safe to say, possible modification of it avionics to allow firing of domestic weapon like PL-12.



So it means that PLAAF has upgraded all of their fleet of SU-27s and J-11s to standard similar to J-11B/J-11BS???

and can you elaborate with pictures more on the upgrade and the cockpit...



cirr said:


>



I think these two radome AEW&Cs are for PAF???

Does PAC looking to do JV with China on transport planes like:
CN-235
CN-295
C-130J-30

???

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## Broccoli

New helmet?

Reactions: Like Like:
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## PWFI

Broccoli said:


> New helmet?



wich aircraft is this ? it look like Jf-17


----------



## Fsjal

PWFI said:


> wich aircraft is this ? it look like Jf-17



J-10A by the looks of it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## hk299792458

Henri K.


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## hk299792458

Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

Henri K.


----------



## cirr

Y-20 20001 is now Y-20 781&#65306;

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## hk299792458

PLA Air Force's "Action of duty 2013 C" drill, more than 100 aircrafts participated to the exercise.











Henri K.


----------



## hk299792458

"Action of duty 2013C" airforce drill ended yesterday.






Henri K.

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## cirr

CCTV screen shot:







L15 in mass production - L15-11.

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## hk299792458

L-15 runs into serial production.
















Henri K.

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## hk299792458

J-10 on CCTV...
















Henri K.


----------



## copasi

Mass production of KJ-500 began

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## hk299792458

HQ-9 in PLAAF.











C4ISR + Air-defense global system presented by CASIC, who has also developped HQ-9 / FD-2000.






Henri K.

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## 帅的一匹

hk299792458 said:


> HQ-9 in PLAAF.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C4ISR + Air-defense global system presented by CASIC, who has also developped HQ-9 / FD-2000.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.


----------



## shuttler

*Pictues of J-11B installed with WS engines
*




&#32593;&#21451;&#25293;&#25668;&#21040;&#30340;&#27516;-11&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#65288;&#19978;&#65289;&#21644;&#27516;-11B&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#65288;&#19979;&#65289; 
J-11 (top pic) J-11B





















Credit: qialong.com, weimeng, xinhuanet, huanqiu.com and mil.cnr.cn

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## shuttler

*Pictues of J-11B installed with WS engines
*





























*&#38500;&#20102;&#27516;-11B&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#22806;&#65292;&#22826;&#34892;&#21457;&#21160;&#26426;&#22312;&#25105;&#22269;&#27491;&#22312;&#30740;&#21046;&#30340;&#27516;-10B&#25112;&#26007;&#26426;&#20063;&#24471;&#21040;&#20102;&#24212;&#29992;
WS-10A (Taihang) engines installed on J-10
*
Credit: qialong.com, weimeng, xinhuanet, huanqiu.com and mil.cnr.cn

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> CCTV screen shot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L15 in mass production - L15-11.



L15 will have an brilliant future in worldwide market.


----------



## 帅的一匹




----------



## 帅的一匹



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## hk299792458

Henri K.


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## copasi

[video]http://www.56.com/u26/v_OTkwNzE5MTE.html[/video]


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## hk299792458

China's S-300PMU2 in exercise.

We could see 48N6E, 96L6E on MZKT-7930, and 54K6E.






Serial production of L-15 for exportation and JL-10 for self usage has already started.






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

2nd Y-20 appeared












The 1st Y-20











Cocpit of the first Y-20 ??






Henri K.

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## Viking 63

Great stuff from china !!!

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## aliaselin

mass production of J-10B came out





mass production of J-10B came out

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## cirr

It's B time&#12290;


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## cirr

According to its deputy chief designer，comprehensive improvement of J-10 is under way： 

http://military.china.com/important/11132797/20131107/18132764.html






Hello *J-10C*。

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## cirr

What the heck。。。


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## cirr

Taihang （WS-10) engines






now in widespread use。

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## Genesis

@cirr 

is it for real this time? The WS-10? This engine is like Chinese soccer, i been hurt too many time, and yet I can't quit you.

Same as a crazy girlfriend.

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## cirr

Genesis said:


> @cirr
> 
> is it for real this time? The WS-10? This engine is like Chinese soccer, i been hurt too many time, and yet I can't quit you.
> 
> Same as a crazy girlfriend.



Yes it is for real。

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## rott

Genesis said:


> This engine is like Chinese soccer, i been hurt too many time, and yet I can't quit you.

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## cirr



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## cirr



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## Fsjal

New SAM launcher??


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## Kompromat

KS1-A launchers.

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## cirr

New advanced XSAR（X-band SAR） developed，will be deployed shortly：

高分专项重要 观测设备通过评审- 中国日报网

Per National Defense Science and Technology Industry Bureau

*高分专项重要 观测设备通过评审*

2013-11-24 01:05:00 来源：科技日报

*[提要]* （记者付毅飞）记者11月22日从国家国防科技工业局获悉，我国高分专项航空系统的首个观测设备——X波段高分辨率全极化合成孔径雷达（XSAR），已顺利通过技术校飞总结会评审。

　原标题：高分专项重要 观测设备通过评审

　　科技日报讯 （记者付毅飞）记者11月22日从国家国防科技工业局获悉，我国高分专项航空系统的首个观测设备——X波段高分辨率全极化合成孔径雷达（XSAR），已顺利通过技术校飞总结会评审。雷达功能性能达到预期目标，所获取的图像画质清晰、层次丰富，将于近期投入使用。

　　XSAR由中国航空工业集团公司607所研制，攻克了宽带收发、高精度运动补偿、高分辨宽测绘带成像等多项关键技术，实现了高分辨率、全极化数据获取和大幅宽实时成像，同时支持1∶10000比例尺制图；可满足国家综合减灾、环境治理、国土资源调查、海域监察等领域的需要，对于推动我国航空观测技术进步，促进经济建设、社会发展等具有重要意义。

　　航空观测系统是高分专项的重要组成部分，是以大气层航空飞行器为载体的对地观测系统，由飞行平台（大科学工程提供）、对地观测设备和地面数据处理系统三部分组成，可获取可见光和微波等各类高分辨率数据。


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## shuttler

This may have been covered somewhere but the posting of this official news today, December 3, 2013, through the State media that J-15 has officially started production:

解放军歼15舰载机量产_图片频道_新华网江苏频道












And salute to our late Chief 罗阳:





Chief Luo Yang's statue established on the 1st anniversay of his passing away

Our everlasting Hero:





Credits: Jiangsu Xinhuanet, Sohu, Chinanews.com, Xinhuanet

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## shuttler

I estimate the no of production for J-15

1. Liaoning: 30
2. next 2 carriers: 30-40 = total 60-80
3. 1 nuclear CVN：50-70

25 extra for back up.
10 for training
so up to year 2020 the number of J-15 that we are going to produce is

Upper limit: 215
Lower limit: 175

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## 帅的一匹

Will J-31 on board in the future?


----------



## shuttler

wanglaokan said:


> Will J-31 on board in the future?



Considering the time for incubation is around at least 7 to 8 years, J-31 will barely start its mass production in 2020 if all test flights go well in the interim.

As the tensions builid up in our neighbourhood, there is no time to wait for J-31's induction
Also J-15 is built on the established platform of J-11 and variants


----------



## HRK

AVIC and Ukraine's Ivchenko-Progress to deepen aero-engine development ties - IHS Jane's 360

*The Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) and Ukrainian engine manufacturer Ivchenko-Progress have agreed to expand collaboration in developing and producing aero-engines.*

Citing an official from Ivchenko-Progress, *the Interfax-Ukraine news agency reported on 5 December that the agreement facilitates the modernisation of existing aircraft engines as well as the joint development and manufacturing of "new engines for aircraft and helicopters".*

AVIC also confirmed the collaboration programme in a statement published on 2 December following meetings between AVIC president Lin Zuoming and representatives from Ukroboronprom, Ukraine's state-owned defence industrial holding company.

Ukrainian president Viktor Yanukovych also paid a visit to AVIC during his three-day trip to China, which concluded on 6 December, in which the two countries agreed to a "2014-2018 strategic partnership development plan" that calls for industrial collaboration across several sectors, including aerospace.

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## Enemy

Colonel Shen Jinke, news spokesperson of the Chinese air force, said on the 28th November that the Chinese air force had dispatched S-30 and J-11 and other main battle aircraft for a standard air patrol in China's East China Air Defense Identification Zone, so as to reinforce the monitoring of aerial targets and carry out a range of missions and tasks. Interviewed by a media reporter, *military expert Du Wenlong said that we have placed both "eyes" and "fists" in the Air Defense Identification Zone at the same time, and have given full play to our active capabilities.*

He emphasized that the *Chinese air force always maintains a high state of defense readiness, and will take the appropriate measures to deal with any air threats and resolutely protect the security of China's air defenses.* 

Explaining the format of the patrols, Du Wenlong said that this particular model is an air-to-air combination: i.e. it organizes the early warning aircraft and fighters into air formations while cruising in the Air Defense Identification Zone. This allows the air command and early warning capacity and the air interception capacity to be very closely combined. *The Air Early Warning 2000 not only has a very wide scope of early warning and a long scouting range, but also can control many groups of targets with great precision. In addition, it can also command large numbers of aircraft tasked with intercepting targets.

China's main battle military aircraft can intercept multiple targets in the air defense identification zone - People's Daily Online*

PLAAF is top to bottom professional air force. They must have calculated all the pros and cons before taking the responsibility of maintaining the law and order within the CADIZ. They must also have considered ways of countering eventualities in case there are F 22 or B 2 stealth factors.






PLA's main battle fighters patrol air defense zone - People's Daily Online

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## 帅的一匹

Ukraine will help a lot.

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## nomi007



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## HRK

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 11494



dear can you explain this pic .....


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## Malik Alashter

Genesis said:


> @cirr
> 
> is it for real this time? The WS-10? This engine is like Chinese soccer, i been hurt too many time, and yet I can't quit you.
> 
> Same as a crazy girlfriend.


ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Sooooooooooooo funny dude.


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## nomi007

HRK said:


> dear can you explain this pic .....


*Sharp Sword's station*

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## xuxu1457



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## cirr

The 2nd Y-20 prototype(20002) took to the air a couple of days ago:






Rumour has it that the 3rd prototype has rolled off the assembly line.

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## 帅的一匹

We shall produce them at the speed we produce sausage.

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## lcloo

wanglaokan said:


> We shall produce them at the speed we produce sausage.



下水饺?

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## mil-avia

*New J-7G and J-7N jet planes for Tanzania.*


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## cirr

Taihang（WS-10）engines on J-11Bs：

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## mil-avia

*J-7 G fighter with missiles :*

*



*
*800 × 600 pixels*


*Related link(s).*


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## xhw1986

*Chinese J-10 Fighter Jet in Combat Air Patrol (CAP) Configuration*





*

*Chinese J-10 Fighter Jet in Combat Air Patrol (CAP) Configuration armed with PL-12 Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile (BVRAAM) and PL-8 Short Range Anti-Air Missile (SRAAM)

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## cirr

Interesting。H-6G can also carry CJ-10 cruise missiles：






Enough bombers to carry some 500 CJ-10/20s。

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## HRK

cirr said:


> Interesting。H-6G can also carry CJ-10 cruise missiles：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enough bombers to carry some 500 CJ-10/20s。










...........

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## cirr

H-20 stealth strategic bomber programme formally initiated in 2013：

一飞院提前完成全年各项任务

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## j20blackdragon

cirr said:


> Interesting。H-6G can also carry CJ-10 cruise missiles：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enough bombers to carry some 500 CJ-10/20s。


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## Akasa

cirr said:


> H-20 stealth strategic bomber programme formally initiated in 2013：
> 
> 一飞院提前完成全年各项任务



And when will it make its maiden test?


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## xhw1986



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## HRK

xhw1986 said:


>



Beauty ........

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## Genesis

I read up on some J-11C, and J-10C as well as a few other things and let me say J-11C seems potent, but is it necessary? It's billed to be a match to American silent eagle, but here's the problem, America don't have any silent eagle. I'm not really sure if they ever will. 

As to J-10C, I'm hearing it is more of a carrier based fighter bomber than a big upgrade to J-10B, so J-10B may still make up of the majority of the orders for J-10s, and J-10C it's been said will surpass the American F-16 and Mig-29. 

There is this photo not sure if real.

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## mrnohnaimers

Salut just tested Al-31FN Series 3 engines (137kN) for J-10 and mentions a contract with China. Based on the thrust, it's most likely Al-31F M1 with slight modifications (gear box position) so "testing" shouldn't take long. J-10B will probably be equipped with these higher thrust variants. 

Makes me wonder, are J-15s equipped with Al-31F or Al-31F M1.

I can't post links right now, just goto Salut's website and it's the 2nd article under news.


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## Fsjal

Genesis said:


> There is this photo not sure if real.


I you look, the J-10C has DSI inlets.

Planes with 2 engines can't use DSI.


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## Akasa

mrnohnaimers said:


> Salut just tested Al-31FN Series 3 engines (137kN) for J-10 and mentions a contract with China. Based on the thrust, it's most likely Al-31F M1 with slight modifications (gear box position) so "testing" shouldn't take long. J-10B will probably be equipped with these higher thrust variants.
> 
> Makes me wonder, are J-15s equipped with Al-31F or Al-31F M1.
> 
> I can't post links right now, just goto Salut's website and it's the 2nd article under news.



J10B will use WS10B while J15 will use WS10A.



Fsjal said:


> I you look, the J-10C has DSI inlets.
> 
> Planes with 2 engines can't use DSI.



There are lots of planes with twin engines and DSI: the J-20 and J-31 are two examples.


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## sweetgrape



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## Fsjal

SinoSoldier said:


> here are lots of planes with twin engines and DSI: the J-20 and J-31 are two examples.


No.

I mean like an underside DSI. Look at the J-10C. Both engines use the same DSI.

J-20 has 2 side DSI inlets, not 1 DSI used for 2 engines.

Think of it as milk bottles and babies. The J-20 has 2 milk bottles (DSI inlets) for 2 babies (The engines). As for J-10C, it is like 1 milk bottle for 2 babies.

This most likely goes down to aerodynamics. I'm sorry to say, but gambit knows a lot about this particular area.


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## aliaselin

J-20 No. 2011 start rolling for the first time today

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## Nishan_101

aliaselin said:


> J-20 No. 2011 start rolling for the first time today



Wish to see PAC joined in J-31 as suits more to PAF..


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## xhw1986



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## nomi007



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## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 14198



Really. I think that the twin engine would be a totally different aircraft.


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## nomi007

20003

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## nomi007



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## xhw1986



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## 帅的一匹

xhw1986 said:


>


J16 or J11b?


----------



## lcloo

wanglaokan said:


> J16 or J11b?


 J-16's front undercarriage has a twin wheel, so this one is J-11BS.


----------



## gambit

> Genesis said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is this photo not sure if real.
> 
> http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee393/houshanghai/285_132055_4d6f19edfd117f8.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fsjal said:
> 
> 
> 
> I you look, the J-10C has DSI inlets.
> 
> Planes with 2 engines can't use DSI.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SinoSoldier said:
> 
> 
> 
> There are lots of planes with twin engines and DSI: the J-20 and J-31 are two examples.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fsjal said:
> 
> 
> 
> No.
> 
> I mean like an underside DSI. Look at the J-10C. Both engines use the same DSI.
> 
> J-20 has 2 side DSI inlets, not 1 DSI used for 2 engines.
> 
> Think of it as milk bottles and babies. The J-20 has 2 milk bottles (DSI inlets) for 2 babies (The engines). As for J-10C, it is like 1 milk bottle for 2 babies.
> 
> This most likely goes down to aerodynamics. I'm sorry to say, but gambit knows a lot about this particular area.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Not likely it is real.

It is not a good idea to have twin engines sharing one intake, DSI-ed or not, especially if we are talking about a supersonic intake design and the J-10C is a Mach capable fighter. Subsonic intake/engine pods are what we see on airliners. A supersonic intake is a matching component to the engine and the exhaust. All three components: intake, engine, and exhaust nozzle, must be optimized, or tuned, together precisely because of supersonic airflow. We need intake length and a mechanism to reduce airflow speed from supersonic to subsonic. For the SR-71, there is a cone. For the F-15 there is a ramp, which gave us that famous retangular shape intake. The J-10C is supposed to be maneuverable and as such, the intake must be properly designed to minimize airflow disruption to the engine, from standing still to cruise, and worst of all, at all angle of attack the aircraft is capable of reaching based upon its airframe and aerodynamics. It is AOA that have the highest potential for airflow disruption.

Intake engineering is its own discrete discipline and this engineer spans his workload across airframe and engine engineering. It is difficult to see how two engines widely separated by the fuselage, each have its own intake tunnel, and yet be adequately served by one intake that seems to be of the same shape and opening size.

Good gut instinct, though...


----------



## terranMarine

gambit said:


> Not likely it is real.
> 
> It is not a good idea to have twin engines sharing one intake, DSI-ed or not, especially if we are talking about a supersonic intake design and the J-10C is a Mach capable fighter. Subsonic intake/engine pods are what we see on airliners. A supersonic intake is a matching component to the engine and the exhaust. All three components: intake, engine, and exhaust nozzle, must be optimized, or tuned, together precisely because of supersonic airflow. We need intake length and a mechanism to reduce airflow speed from supersonic to subsonic. For the SR-71, there is a cone. For the F-15 there is a ramp, which gave us that famous retangular shape intake. The J-10C is supposed to be maneuverable and as such, the intake must be properly designed to minimize airflow disruption to the engine, from standing still to cruise, and worst of all, at all angle of attack the aircraft is capable of reaching based upon its airframe and aerodynamics. It is AOA that have the highest potential for airflow disruption.
> 
> Intake engineering is its own discrete discipline and this engineer spans his workload across airframe and engine engineering. It is difficult to see how two engines widely separated by the fuselage, each have its own intake tunnel, and yet be adequately served by one intake that seems to be of the same shape and opening size.
> 
> Good gut instinct, though...



Indeed, if the SR-71 goes supersonic those cones retracts.


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

nomi007 said:


>


 why it need to be covered like this? and what is in the red circle?


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## nomi007

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> why it need to be covered like this? and what is in the red circle?


u tell because u r chinese


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## PurpleButcher

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> why it need to be covered like this? and what is in the red circle?



perhaps its a rain coat


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## Luftwaffe

wanglaokan said:


> J16 or J11b?


 
I think we should ask is it J-11BS or J-16 but my guess is J-16.


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## nomi007




----------



## xhw1986



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## nomi007

PLAAF *Y-9*

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## xhw1986

These are pictures of China's Il-76 AWACS modification from February 2014.













The picture can clearly see a lot of the three generations of the Chinese Air Force fighter planes on the tarmac with the J-10, Su-30, J-11, J-8II, Flying Leopard other models.

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## Luftwaffe

xhw1986 said:


> These are pictures of China's Il-76 AWACS modification from February 2014.


 
Any information on this AWACS modifications.


----------



## lcloo

Luftwaffe said:


> Any information on this AWACS modifications.


 
It is not modification. It is a documentary on the construction of the first KJ-2000 many years ago, it is the current vesion that are in service with PLAAF.


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## nomi007

*Chinese Z-20 Sino-SeaHawk Multi-Mission Maritime Helicopter*

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## xhw1986



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## cirr

J-10S

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## cirr

J-16 1612

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## 帅的一匹

Although the production rate of J16 is not as quick as expected, it is still an awesome platform in steady progress. From the picture you can see the indegenous WS10H engine on J16.


----------



## cirr



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## 帅的一匹

Sexy baby! What does the number'1612' mean?


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## Akasa

wanglaokan said:


> Sexy baby! What does the number'1612' mean?



Twelfth prototype or production unit. The thing entered service in late 2013.


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## nomi007

chinese helmet mount for j-20

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## cirr

J-10B 104






109 has been spotted outside CAC's hangar。

A regiment（of 24 planes）for 2014？

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## nomi007



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## nomi007




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## nomi007

improve Z-8K


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## hk299792458

Exercice de l'armée parachutiste






Henri K.

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## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> improve Z-8K



Better for PA, PAF and PN as it can easily land on water as well.


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## nomi007




----------



## hk299792458

Women pilots of IL-76 in PLAAF






Henri K.


----------



## Genesis

That is some good carry on the weapons. Now just add a thousand or so more of these attack helis of all types and we will be good to go.

These are from the 39th army's aviation brigade.

Yea, that pollution is not great, but the Z-19s are awesome.


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## Genesis

WZ-10

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## Nishan_101

Genesis said:


> WZ-10



BDs should try to take help to join in this program to produce this at home and also JV in UAVs...


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## nomi007

J-20 with complete weapon package

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## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 21193
> 
> J-20 with complete weapon package



Nice one. They should go to offer South American as well countries of Africa even the new ones making up their military....


----------



## nomi007

Nishan_101 said:


> Nice one. They should go to offer South American as well countries of Africa even the new ones making up their military....


same like f-22 chinese will not export j-20 to other countries
alternative option is j-31


----------



## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> same like f-22 chinese will not export j-20 to other countries
> alternative option is j-31


hmmm.... wait n see....

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## nomi007



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## xhw1986



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## nomi007

Y-9

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## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


>



PN needs at least 3 of these.

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## cirr



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## Akasa

cirr said:


>




Any new updates on the J-15B AESA upgrade? Can you provide a quick link as to where you saw that claim?


----------



## nomi007



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## nomi007




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## nomi007

serial production started


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## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> serial production started



I think Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Yemen and other Muslim countries should look in to it getting.


----------



## nomi007

Nishan_101 said:


> I think Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Yemen and other Muslim countries should look in to it getting.


Libya,Tunisia are and detting c-130j from usa so no chance
yamen economical condition is poor 
algeria will prefer american or russian aircrafts instead of chinese

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## Beidou2020

nomi007 said:


> Libya,Tunisia are and detting c-130j from usa so no chance
> yamen economical condition is poor
> algeria will prefer american or russian aircrafts instead of chinese



Libya is run by Yankee-backed terrorists. So of course they will choose the weapons of that fascist empire.

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## Beast

nomi007 said:


> Libya,Tunisia are and detting c-130j from usa so no chance
> yamen economical condition is poor
> algeria will prefer american or russian aircrafts instead of chinese


Algeria bought Chinese frigate, OPV and SPH.


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## nomi007

Beast said:


> Algeria bought Chinese frigate, OPV and SPH.


if u see whole Algerian airforce there is no any single aircraft in their inventory
there must difference navy and airforce


----------



## Beast

nomi007 said:


> if u see whole Algerian airforce there is no any single aircraft in their inventory
> there must difference navy and airforce


 But that still rebuke yr myth of algeria only prefer russia and USA. algeria airforce prefer heavy weight fighter and China has no heavy fighter to offer at the moment. That does not constitute they prefer russia and USA. You are just assuming and spreading nonsense.


----------



## Luftwaffe

Beast said:


> But that still rebuke yr myth of algeria only prefer russia and USA. algeria airforce prefer heavy weight fighter and China has no heavy fighter to offer at the moment. That does not constitute they prefer russia and USA. You are just assuming and spreading nonsense.


 
I Think the point is algerian air force when it comes to combat aircrafts/trainers have russian inventory they heavily invested in them I don't think so even if China has a heavy weight aircraft for export they would want to buy already they have ordered SU-30 and have some in inventory unless they want to get rid of su-24s and su-25s in favor if stealth product...that would all come to Chinese finished stealth product, it's price and defense relations with algeria plus some sort of agreement for initial years ot station Chinese airmen for various including not allowing US close to the stealth aircrafts...standard procedure which US has adopted.


----------



## Beast

Luftwaffe said:


> I Think the point is algerian air force when it comes to combat aircrafts/trainers have russian inventory they heavily invested in them I don't think so even if China has a heavy weight aircraft for export they would want to buy already they have ordered SU-30 and have some in inventory unless they want to get rid of su-24s and su-25s in favor if stealth product...that would all come to Chinese finished stealth product, it's price and defense relations with algeria plus some sort of agreement for initial years ot station Chinese airmen for various including not allowing US close to the stealth aircrafts...standard procedure which US has adopted.


Quite true but algeria is getting sick of Russia poor quality product. The mig-29 SMT which they turn back will be the last straw. I believe next batch of major airforce for algeria will be buying from Chinese.


----------



## Luftwaffe

Beast said:


> Quite true but algeria is getting sick of Russia poor quality product. The mig-29 SMT which they turn back will be the last straw. I believe next batch of major airforce for algeria will be buying from Chinese.


 
It is never too late J-31 can be made F-35 like consortium. Nations can bring in cash and invest while China can work upon the product might get completed by the 2020-22 which is not late. The problem is US has also influence on algerian government I hope no F-16s are offered because this is the only aircraft left for US to market world wide F-15s and F-18s are not on the menu for every country that is where China can gain upper hand to offer stealth aircrafts for the best price offering countries like algeria to invest into the program.


----------



## CrazyPaki

Luftwaffe said:


> It is never too late J-31 can be made F-35 like consortium. Nations can bring in cash and invest while China can work upon the product might get completed by the 2020-22 which is not late. The problem is US has also influence on algerian government I hope no F-16s are offered because this is the only aircraft left for US to market world wide F-15s and F-18s are not on the menu for every country that is where China can gain upper hand to offer stealth aircrafts for the best price offering countries like algeria to invest into the program.


what do you think of custom made j-31 for anyone willing to purchase a certain batch of these?, especially in the case of Pakistan.


----------



## nomi007



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## nomi007



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## nomi007

why china is not using y-9 as a refueling aircraft


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## 592257001

nomi007 said:


> why china is not using y-9 as a refueling aircraft



The Y-9 transporter has slower cruising speed than the existing H-6U, thus making it more difficult for older interceptors such as the J-8 to match its speed (unstable at low speeds).

As of right now, I believe the PLAAF is holding off until Y-20 enters serial production, and they wont just be eyeing for tanker/AWAC/transporter variants, but every single possible modifications out there, will be implemented on the Y-20.

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## hk299792458

An engineer from PLAAF






Old Q-5 still in flight






A paratrooper's division in exercise






Henri K.

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## hk299792458

More and more serial J-10B come out from the FAL in 132th factory...


























Henri K.

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## nomi007

China finally convert second hand il-76 into il-78 tanker aircraft for air refueling

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## nomi007



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## nomi007

twin seater revealed

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## Zarvan

Genesis said:


> WZ-10


Is this Z-10 helicopter and what are the missiles which can be fitted into these helicopters


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## nomi007



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## Nishan_101

nomi007 said:


> twin seater revealed
> View attachment 22373



Really Nice to see. this.

Tell any PAC-CAC plan in marketing JF-17 Block-IIs in Africa and South America.... Also selling jet to BDs, Lanka, ex-soviets and North Korea....


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## Genesis

Zarvan said:


> Is this Z-10 helicopter and what are the missiles which can be fitted into these helicopters



It's a secret right now, but it is new and there are speculations. Tough the missiles will be similar to hellfire. I don't think Z-10 is the finished product yet, it still needs work,

With current advances and models, look for China to compete with the US in helicopter tech within 10 years. 


Why did Pakistan never went for Apache? Despite being pretty patriotic, the longbow is the superior helicopter in pretty much every way. Your relationship with the US must be better than India's.


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## Zarvan

Genesis said:


> It's a secret right now, but it is new and there are speculations. Tough the missiles will be similar to hellfire. I don't think Z-10 is the finished product yet, it still needs work,
> 
> With current advances and models, look for China to compete with the US in helicopter tech within 10 years.
> 
> 
> Why did Pakistan never went for Apache? Despite being pretty patriotic, the longbow is the superior helicopter in pretty much every way. Your relationship with the US must be better than India's.


First even if they offer us we don't have money and main reason is they never offered us Apache @Aeronaut


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## Luftwaffe

Genesis said:


> It's a secret right now, but it is new and there are speculations. Tough the missiles will be similar to hellfire. I don't think Z-10 is the finished product yet, it still needs work,
> 
> With current advances and models, look for China to compete with the US in helicopter tech within 10 years.
> 
> Why did Pakistan never went for Apache? Despite being pretty patriotic, the longbow is the superior helicopter in pretty much every way. Your relationship with the US must be better than India's.


 
China should really work hard to make Z-19 [twin engine] closer to AH-1Z super cobra like product with better armament better hull armor and equally to AH-1 weapons and carrying capacity. 

Apache is not offered to Pakistan nor can Pakistan afford. Although it don't make sense to operate 3rd type of gunship, in case of Pakistan we are focusing on AH-1 latest variant and turkish T-129 though it is 5-6 million expensive than Z-10 also some of the components are US. My opinion view is Pakistan even if it ever procure turkish T-129 should go for atleast 20 Z-10s in case of US sanction to cripple ah-1 fleet...but whenever funds are available for Pakistan.


----------



## Akasa

Genesis said:


> It's a secret right now, but it is new and there are speculations. Tough the missiles will be similar to hellfire. I don't think Z-10 is the finished product yet, it still needs work,
> 
> With current advances and models, look for China to compete with the US in helicopter tech within 10 years.
> 
> 
> Why did Pakistan never went for Apache? Despite being pretty patriotic, the longbow is the superior helicopter in pretty much every way. Your relationship with the US must be better than India's.



As the Z-10 gets the planned WZ16 turboshaft engines, the helicopter would be able to have the same loadout and thus avionics as the Apache.


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## Luftwaffe

SinoSoldier said:


> As the Z-10 gets the planned WZ16 turboshaft engines, the helicopter would be able to have the same loadout and thus avionics as the Apache.


 
What about its armor? How good is it.


----------



## xuxu1457



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## nomi007

jh-7b


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## nomi007

Hello



Nishan_101 said:


> Really Nice to see. this.
> 
> Tell any PAC-CAC plan in marketing JF-17 Block-IIs in Africa and South America.... Also selling jet to BDs, Lanka, ex-soviets and North Korea....


sir BD is new enemy
only hope is srilanka Egypt and more probably Iraq if we offer them

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## nomi007



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## Akasa

Luftwaffe said:


> What about its armor? How good is it.



Well, nobody has any specifications released, but it is expected that once it gets the WZ16 it would be able to shake off high calibre rounds just like the Apache does.


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## nomi007

*Chinese Air Force two F-11B aircraft to escort the remains of the martyrs*






Original title: two Air Force *F-11B* fighter escort for the *remains of the martyrs* (Figure)
BEIJING, March 28 (Xinhua), according to the "Liberation Army Daily" official microblogging news 28 morning Beijing time, China and the ROK held at Incheon International Airport, 437 Korean *martyrs remains* at the handover ceremony. After transporting the *remains* of *the martyrs* plane into Chinese airspace, the Air Force sent two *F-11B* fighter escort to meet. Two fighters are from Shenyang Aviation division.

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## nomi007

chinese civil administrative purchased two l-130 from usa

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## hk299792458

HQ-9 exercise






Training of young paratroopers






Henri K.

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## DANGER-ZONE

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 22729
> View attachment 22730
> chinese civil administrative purchased two l-130 from usa



*Why they are not copying this machine ???
*


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## nomi007

DANGER-ZONE said:


> *Why they are not copying this machine ???
> *


chinese modified their y-8 on the basis of c-130


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## DANGER-ZONE

nomi007 said:


> chinese modified their y-8 on the basis of c-130



Y - 8 / 9 are extensively modified version of Russian AN-12 ... they are no where close to C-130.


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## nomi007

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Y - 8 / 9 are extensively modified version of Russian AN-12 ... they are no where close to C-130.


you are right modification means take good things from c-130

In the late 1980s, Lockheed Martin, the American manufacturer of the C-130 Hercules, helped China to develop a pressurized cabin for the passenger version of Y-8, resulting in two versions: the first had half of the cabin pressurized and later, the second version in which the complete cabin was pressurized

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## nomi007

The latest image (April 2014) indicated that a new batch of JL-9 just entered the service

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## hk299792458

Free air combat exercise






Henri K.

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## nomi007

finally

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## hk299792458

The 10th serial J-10B shooted in test flight






Henri K.

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## nomi007

Very interesting image of the Chinese Y-8GX5 (Y-8W/WH) / KJ-200 Balanced Beam Airborne Early Warning And Control (AEW&C) System taken along with single-seat, twin-engine Shenyang J-11 Flanker fighter aircraft of the Peoples Liberation Army Air Force.

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## hk299792458

Training of Air-Ground gun attack of young pilots on JL-8






Henri K.


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## Luftwaffe

@hk299792458 Is China planning to develop any non turbo prop AWACS plane something similar to US E3 Sentry aircraft and apart from the planned possible Y-20 variant.


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## BigDaddyWatch

Luftwaffe said:


> @hk299792458 Is China planning to develop any non turbo prop AWACS plane something similar to US E3 Sentry aircraft and apart from the planned possible Y-20 variant.


You mean the KJ-500.


----------



## Luftwaffe

BigDaddyWatch said:


> You mean the KJ-500.



No I mean A platform like this: E-3 Sentry


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## Beast

Luftwaffe said:


> No I mean A platform like this: E-3 Sentry



PLAAF may used comac C919 as a better candidate. The reason why civilian engine like SFA 5000 is started is to replace all foreign parts so that embargo will not stop C919 AWACS project.


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## Luftwaffe

Beast said:


> PLAAF may used comac C919 as a better candidate. The reason why civilian engine like SFA 5000 is started is to replace all foreign parts so that embargo will not stop C919 AWACS project.



C919 is small compared to Boeing 707 I don't know is C919 two engine? Are there any more airliner project by China any 4 engine based platform. But yes C919 AEW&C to replace Y-8/9 series would be excellent and might get international orders like Pakistan and other Allies of China.


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## Beast

Luftwaffe said:


> C919 is small compared to Boeing 707 I don't know is C919 two engine? Are there any more airliner project by China any 4 engine based platform. But yes C919 AEW&C to replace Y-8/9 series would be excellent and might get international orders like Pakistan and other Allies of China.



The latest generation of KJ-500 suggest smaller antenna dish build. I don't it whether size will really restrict it capability but C919 shall have no problem fitting the new dish on it.


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## Sasquatch

Beast said:


> PLAAF may used comac C919 as a better candidate. The reason why civilian engine like SFA 5000 is started is to replace all foreign parts so that embargo will not stop C919 AWACS project.



Comac has already hinted a military role for C919(AWACS), Y-20 also for the AWACS and Tanker roles.



> Comac acknowledged two years ago that up to six variants of the C919 were being considered, including military .


P&W works with Comac on C919 variant studies - 9/25/2012 - Flight Global

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## nomi007

*Y-8ELINT Cub/High New 8*

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## Nishan_101

I am sure it can be used as Military aircraft too.
Comac C919 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## hk299792458

IFR of J-10A and J-10S from Nanjing military region






Training of paratroopers






Training of a division with it's J-11B






Henri K.


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## hk299792458

Henri K.

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## Black Eagle 90

hk299792458 said:


> Henri K.



I am sure its being in the fleet... along with its dual seat.


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## nomi007




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## cirr

New（GX-N）electronic jamming plane;






New（GX-N）electronic jamming plane;


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## Black Eagle 90

nomi007 said:


>


So J-10B and J-10BS are in the fleet.

Will it going to be used against India sooner or later....


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## nomi007

new stealth nozzles


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## nomi007

2nd kj-500


----------



## 帅的一匹

J11BS


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## 帅的一匹

What a beauty.


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## Black Eagle 90

Have China produced 300 J-10A/S and now how many yearly J-10B/BS are being produced at CAC???

Also show some pictures of J-10C the block-III version???

Also where is the two engine version of J-10 type aircraft with tandem dual seat aircraft?


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## hk299792458

Black Eagle 90 said:


> Have China produced 300 J-10A/S and now how many yearly J-10B/BS are being produced at CAC???
> 
> Also show some pictures of J-10C the block-III version???
> 
> Also where is the two engine version of J-10 type aircraft with tandem dual seat aircraft?



At least 240 *J-10*/*J-10A* have been produced, plus several tens of *J-10S*. The production capacity of 132 factory is around 32 planes per year.

Hereunder a table I made myself on the tracking of Chengdu's production. To be checked.






For *J-10B* serial production, since the first aircraft had been shot mid of December 2013, at least 11 have been produced in which 8 have been shot.









































For *J-10C*, we thought that number 2.01 is called J-10C but this is to be confirmed.






Henri K.

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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> For *J-10C*, we thought that number 2.01 is called J-10C but this is to be confirmed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Henri K.



201 initial take off is witness by many crowd inside the airfield. I doubt such a huge crowd is needed for witnessing a second batch of J-10B. 

Huge crowd is usually reserve for new type of aircraft initial flight.


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## nomi007

Currently *Y-9 is in limited production at SAC.*

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## hk299792458

Chinese ACMI system






PLAAF started to customise pilot's equipment






Airforce's HQ-9 exercise






Henri K.

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## Black Eagle 90

hk299792458 said:


> At least 240 *J-10*/*J-10A* have been produced, plus several tens of *J-10S*. The production capacity of 132 factory is around 32 planes per year.
> 
> Hereunder a table I made myself on the tracking of Chengdu's production. To be checked.
> 
> For *J-10B* serial production, since the first aircraft had been shot mid of December 2013, at least 11 have been produced in which 8 have been shot.
> 
> For *J-10C*, we thought that number 2.01 is called J-10C but this is to be confirmed.
> 
> Henri K.


No J-10C will be total different from J-10B/BS. It will be Block-III Like this:






Also tell me about this new aircraft???















nomi007 said:


> Currently *Y-9 is in limited production at SAC.*


So is it in production now??? What is its cost???


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## hk299792458

Black Eagle 90 said:


> No J-10C will be total different from J-10B/BS. It will be Block-III Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also tell me about this new aircraft???



J-10-21 is stopped.

Henri K.


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## Black Eagle 90

I think we will see it in coming 3-5 years time.


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## nomi007

An unmarked *Il-78* tanker was test flying over Ukraine in March 2014, wearing the distinctive blue top and white bottom color scheme of PLAAF.

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## nomi007

nomi007 said:


> 2nd kj-500

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## sweetgrape



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## aliaselin

Project for H-20 began
大国长剑：中国启动战略轰炸机研制工作 - 军备动态 - 超级大本营军事网站|最严肃的军事网站 - CJDBY.net

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## nomi007

China is still receiving a total of 10 ex-Russian/ex-Belarus *Il-76MD/TD*s after being overhauled by Russia as a stop-gap measure until *Y-20* enters the service.

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## nomi007



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## nomi007

looks funny

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## nomi007

j-20 panel display

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## cirr

*J-16*13 with Taihang power plants：

歼-11BS 出库检测—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看



*J-16*13 with Taihang power plants：

歼-11BS 出库检测—在线播放—优酷网，视频高清在线观看

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## Windjammer

BEIJING: For the first time, China's air force on Sunday successfully test flew warplanes from a highway strip in central China's Henan Province.

Flight tests of military aircraft including the third generation of warplanes were held on the Zhengzhou-Minquan highway, state-run Xinhua news agency reported. 

However, it did not identify the exact location. The strip is one of the best road runways in China, Liu Shenyang, deputy chief of the Jinan military area command said. 

The highway can serve as an alternative airport for civilian airplanes and allows take-offs and landings of cargo planes, he said. 

It can also be used in exercises and training for military airplanes as well as emergency landings during wartime, he said. 

The tests enhanced the air force's capabilities of emergency landing and coordination between military and civilian force, the media report said.

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## Indus Falcon

Windjammer said:


> BEIJING: For the first time, China's air force on Sunday successfully test flew warplanes from a highway strip in central China's Henan Province.
> 
> Flight tests of military aircraft including the third generation of warplanes were held on the Zhengzhou-Minquan highway, state-run Xinhua news agency reported.
> 
> However, it did not identify the exact location. The strip is one of the best road runways in China, Liu Shenyang, deputy chief of the Jinan military area command said.
> 
> The highway can serve as an alternative airport for civilian airplanes and allows take-offs and landings of cargo planes, he said.
> 
> It can also be used in exercises and training for military airplanes as well as emergency landings during wartime, he said.
> 
> The tests enhanced the air force's capabilities of emergency landing and coordination between military and civilian force, the media report said.


I think we started doing this more than a decade ago!


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## Windjammer

Abu Nasar said:


> I think we started doing this more than a decade ago!



Yea, i believe 2005 was the first time PAF aircraft landed and took off from a Motorway.

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## Indus Falcon

Windjammer said:


> Yea, i believe 2005 was the first time PAF aircraft landed and took off from a Motorway.


Can you remember the first aircraft that landed on the motorway? It was a Fantan if I'm not mistaken!


----------



## Windjammer

Abu Nasar said:


> Can you remember the first aircraft that landed on the motorway? It was a Fantan if I'm not mistaken!


Can't say for sure dear but it was done during one of the high mark exercise, one of the goal was to fly 8000 sorties within a fortnight period using all infrastructure and assets available to the PAF.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Abu Nasar said:


> Can you remember the first aircraft that landed on the motorway? It was a Fantan if I'm not mistaken!


high mark... the footage they aired on tv was of mirage n f-7s.. although pics of other jets landing n taking off from the motorways are also there... like these:

PAF validates concept of fighter operations from motorways

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## Indus Falcon

Windjammer said:


> Can't say for sure dear but it was done during one of the high mark exercise, one of the goal was to fly 8000 sorties within a fortnight period using all infrastructure and assets available to the PAF.


Right, On the M3?


----------



## Windjammer

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> high mark... the footage they aired on tv was of mirage n f-7s.. although pics of other jets landing n taking off from the motorways are also there... like these:
> 
> PAF validates concept of fighter operations from motorways


Yaara these are from 2010, first time they did it was around 2005.

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## nomi007




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## Indus Falcon

nomi007 said:


> View attachment 33514


Hazrat kuch details bhi toe daien!!!

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## nomi007

Abu Nasar said:


> Hazrat kuch details bhi toe daien!!!


jani z-20 flight

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## nomi007

*a modified Tu-204C radar testbed* for j-20

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## cirr

Six *KJ-200*s in a row

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## najeeb ahmed

great and latest news about china arm


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## Beast

7th said:


> So PLAAF is not inducting FC-1s at all?


Yes


----------



## xunzi

Beautiful!

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## cirr

JL-10


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## aliaselin

xunzi said:


> Beautiful!


The two without hull number seems to be WS-10H


----------



## dexter

PLAAF's SU-30 flanker in flight. There are rumors that Iran is about to purchase Su-30s from Russia. That would be interesting..

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## nomi007

FINALLY REVELED* ISRAELI* INVOLVEMENT IN* J-10
*







*Build Your Own Conspiracy Theory Of The Day: Chinese delegation right in front of a Lavi-prototype, mid 1980s. *

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## nomi007




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## GeHAC

cirr said:


> Six *KJ-200*s in a row


4 KJ-200 & 2 Gaoxin-X


----------



## cirr

WS-10 powered J-11Bs，lots of them：

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## Beast

I have a feeling the J-10B that enter PLAAF service will be equipped by WS-10 engine.


----------



## GeHAC

Beast said:


> I have a feeling the J-10B that enter PLAAF service will be equipped by WS-10 engine.


I tend to believe the first batch would be equiped with AL-31FN cep3.


----------



## Beast

GeHAC said:


> I tend to believe the first batch would be equiped with AL-31FN cep3.



But what we see is only production serie batch in factory test out and test centre batch with AL-31 engine. I believe the one enter service will swap into WS-10 engine. 

As for why do they make such a hassle and trouble in doing that? I am not sure. Maybe they want to prolong the life of WS-10. Or they want to quickly expend all AL-31 engine before swapping all engine to WS-10 to standardise all using domestic engine.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> But what we see is only production serie batch in factory test out and test centre batch with AL-31 engine. I believe the one enter service will swap into WS-10 engine.
> 
> As for why do they make such a hassle and trouble in doing that? I am not sure. Maybe they want to prolong the life of WS-10. Or they want to quickly expend all AL-31 engine before swapping all engine to WS-10 to standardise all using domestic engine.



The first priority of the WS-10 engine is to satisfy the demand of the J-11/J-15/J-16 first.

Due the limitation of the production, the J-10B 1035 will continue to test with the WS-10A engine to show that the WS-10A can fit into the J-10 perfectly, but only suffer some shortage of the production temporarily.

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## Beast

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The first priority of the WS-10 engine is to satisfy the demand of the J-11/J-15/J-16 first.
> 
> Due the limitation of the production, the J-10B 1035 will continue to test with the WS-10A engine to show that the WS-10A can fit into the J-10 perfectly, but only suffer some shortage of the production temporarily.


The problem is since 2012, China has not signed any new deal for AL-31FN engines. Including the old J-10A, there is no way. The amount of AL-31FN engine in PLAAF inventory can't keep all J-10A/B flying.

Plus, J-10b may need higher thrust which AL-31FN can't offer. WS10 are know to offer higher thrust than AL-31FN engine.


----------



## ChineseTiger1986

Beast said:


> The problem is since 2012, China has not signed any new deal for AL-31FN engines. Including the old J-10A, there is no way. The amount of AL-31FN engine in PLAAF inventory can't keep all J-10A/B flying.
> 
> Plus, J-10b may need higher thrust which AL-31FN can't offer. WS10 are know to offer higher thrust than AL-31FN engine.



China still has some AL-31FN engines left in its inventory, which was purchased prior to 2012.


----------



## aliaselin

Y-19 CG

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## aliaselin

Q-9


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## Beast

aliaselin said:


> Q-9
> View attachment 40706


I doubt the benefit of a single seat K-8.


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## aliaselin

Beast said:


> I doubt the benefit of a single seat K-8.


Why？


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## Beast

aliaselin said:


> Why？


 For CAS mission, normal K-8 can also accomplish it. K-8 can train new pilot and carry out CAS. Which is something single K-8K cant do it. Why waste money on just another platform?


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## Beast

Andrei Ragofski said:


> The J-20 is surprisingly resemble our cancelled Mig 1.44 project with a little bit characteristics of US F-111 and F-22.
> I think AL-31 engine only works on jet 17 tons or below so I guess China is still need to work on this part before fully deploy
> 
> J-20 weight is above 20 tons!!!!
> 
> Why China still keep those obsolete J-8s in service???


The current engine used on J-20 is WS-10G and not AL-31 engine. WS-10G has more thrust and higher MTBO than AL-31. The final engine used on J-20 will be WS-15(18000kg thrust).

All J-8 are upgraded with new radar and data link. Besides dogfight, they are capable to perform most multi role task.

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## Luftwaffe

aliaselin said:


> Y-19 CG
> View attachment 39325



Is there any Y-19 Program at all?


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## siegecrossbow

Chinese Su-30s and Air Force personnel at an International ground-attack (with rockets) competition in Russia:


























The English name for the competition is "Avia-dart". Aside from ground-attack, pilots are expected to perform low-altitude aerobatic manoeuvres as well as evasive maneuvers.

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## aliaselin

Luftwaffe said:


> Is there any Y-19 Program at all?


No confirmation.


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## nomi007




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## aliaselin

PL-10


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## Zarvan

siegecrossbow said:


> Chinese Su-30s and Air Force personnel at an International ground-attack (with rockets) competition in Russia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The English name for the competition is "Avia-dart". Aside from ground-attack, pilots are expected to perform low-altitude aerobatic manoeuvres as well as evasive maneuvers.


When you will start mass production off J-16 and J-15 @cnelio


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## BigDaddyWatch

Zarvan said:


> When you will start mass production off J-16 and J-15 @cnelio


The J-15 is already in mass production. The J-16 seems to be in pre production and mass production will happen next year.


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## siegecrossbow

Zarvan said:


> When you will start mass production off J-16 and J-15 @cnelio



One batch of J-15s (around 15) was produced earlier this year. There is probably a greater number of J-16s currently in service. Despite the fact that J-16s and J-15s are from the flanker family, they have newer avionics/radar/engines compare with Su-30s/Su-27s. It will take pilots some time (1-2 years) before they are familiar enough with them to participate in foreign/domestic competitions/joint-training.

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## Zarvan

siegecrossbow said:


> One batch of J-15s (around 15) was produced earlier this year. There is probably a greater number of J-16s currently in service. Despite the fact that J-16s and J-15s are from the flanker family, they have newer avionics/radar/engines compare with Su-30s/Su-27s. It will take pilots some time (1-2 years) before they are familiar enough with them to participate in foreign/domestic competitions/joint-training.


Okay and what anout J-10 C


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## siegecrossbow

Zarvan said:


> Okay and what anout J-10 C



If the J-10C is, in fact, the modified J-10B that we saw earlier this year, there is only one J-10C prototype in existence.

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## cirr

siegecrossbow said:


> If the J-10C is, in fact, the modified J-10B that we saw earlier this year, there is only one J-10C prototype in existence.



Two。

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## Bilal.

cirr said:


> Two。



What improvements are their compared to J-10B?


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## siegecrossbow

Bilal. said:


> What improvements are their compared to J-10B?



Although there isn't any external difference, the J-10C features superior avionics.

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## Bilal.

siegecrossbow said:


> Although there isn't any external difference, the J-10C features superior avionics.



Do we know any specifics in terms of what improvements have been made in avionics?


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## Genesis

ASW, second prototype. Yep, we pimping.











A major hole in our capability is getting filled.

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## aliaselin

J-18

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## cirr

JH-7B starts batch production at XAC：

中航飞机西飞与中航工业西航联合成立青年突击队_航空企业_航空工业频道_新闻中心_

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## cirr

783、731 and。。。

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## cirr

An old pic of JH-7B being prepared for trial flights：






A very capable low-cost fighter/attacker that can send destroyers into the bottom of the ocean。

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> An old pic of JH-7B being prepared for trial flights：
> 
> View attachment 138365
> 
> 
> A very capable low-cost fighter/attacker that can send destroyers into the bottom of the ocean。



Hmm ... does its grey radome suggest an AESA radar?


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## applesauce

SinoSoldier said:


> Hmm ... does its grey radome suggest an AESA radar?



the dome is covered


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## nomi007




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## bobsm



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## 帅的一匹

bobsm said:


> View attachment 145815


Dream of generations come true!


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## trident2010

Nice planes. 

Hope to see them in real action sometime soon

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## Max Pain

trident2010 said:


> Nice planes.
> 
> Hope to see them in real action sometime soon


we might be of help in that matter.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Chinese H-6 tanker over Paracel Islands, South China Sea *

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## Beast

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> *Chinese H-6 tanker over Paracel Islands, South China Sea *
> 
> View attachment 156936


Very soon, it can landed on fiery cross reef.

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## cirr

TA600 general assembly:

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## kuge

guys, what engines r those?


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## Beast

kuge said:


> guys, what engines r those?


No info yet but shall be upgrade of WJ-6 turboshaft


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## Deino

Beast said:


> No info yet but shall be upgrade of WJ-6 turboshaft



Sorry, but here You are a bit off ! These engines are WS-10A Taihang turbofans and a Flanker will surely never receive a WJ-6 turboshaft. That's the Y-9's engine !


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## kuge

Beast said:


> No info yet but shall be upgrade of WJ-6 turboshaft


no that's z-10 powered by ws10


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## cirr

Y-9JB aka GX-8：

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## GeHAC

cirr said:


> Y-9JB aka GX-8：
> 
> View attachment 175324

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## Deino

Yes, that's one of four (three of the already identified) Y-9JB - formerly known as Y-8GX-8 - operated by the PLANAF.

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## Fsjal

cirr said:


> TA600 general assembly:
> 
> View attachment 163817


TA600 flying boat, isn't it?

Will it replace the Harbin SH-5?


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## Beast

Fsjal said:


> TA600 flying boat, isn't it?
> 
> Will it replace the Harbin SH-5?


yes, to rapid support Spratly island


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## GeHAC



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## Deino

Seen at the Shaanxi (SAC) facility in Hanzhong there are now already even three KJ-500 standing around ... and one is already painted.

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## cirr

CAC set to test-flight a new type of UAV。

Pics when available。


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## Deino

cirr said:


> CAC set to test-flight a new type of UAV。
> 
> Pics when available。




Ohhh ... please some more information !!


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Ohhh ... please some more information !!



Just a clue，not saying the new UAV bears any resemblance

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## Deino

Here it is ... looks like revised "Sky Wing"

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Here it is ... looks like revised "Sky Wing"
> 
> View attachment 178301




Even more like an improved version of the old Sky Wing ...

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> Just a clue，not saying the new UAV bears any resemblance
> 
> View attachment 178283


What's the U.S Navy UAV project ?


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## aliaselin

cnleio said:


> What's the U.S Navy UAV project ?


PredatorC or Avenger

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## Deino

Again something new but completely different:



> *Z-18A:*The latest images (December 2014) suggested that PLA Army is evaluating its own version of Z-18 (Z-18A?) for high altitude operations in Tibet. Compared to the naval Z-18, the Army version has a further protruding nose section which resembles that of Z-20 and might reduce the drag during the flight. A terrain following radar and EO turret are likely to be mounted under the nose. It also has a SATCOM antenna installed on top of the tail boom for long range communication. Once entering the service, Z-18A is expected to replace the old and unreliable Z-8A.


Chinese Military Aviation: Helicopters III

Deino

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## IrbiS

FC-31's Wide internal weapons bay can house 4 missiles side-by-side





FC-31's IRST similar in shape with PAK FA's, its head can rotate when not in use to minimize RCS

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## 帅的一匹

Umair Khan Niazi said:


> FC-31's Wide internal weapons bay can house 4 missiles side-by-side
> View attachment 178987
> 
> 
> FC-31's IRST similar in shape with PAK FA's, its head can rotate when not in use to minimize RCS
> View attachment 178988


Is PAF going for FC31 deal confirmed yet?



Deino said:


> View attachment 178782
> 
> 
> 
> Again something new but completely different:
> 
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Helicopters III
> 
> Deino


maybe new Turbo shaft engine?


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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> maybe new Turbo shaft engine?



Shall be WZ-16 turboshaft. One Z-18 runs 3 of them.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> Shall be WZ-16 turboshaft. One Z-18 runs 3 of them.


The horse power output of three WZ16 is very remarkable, i think the operation ability of PLA is reinforced in Tibet.


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## Deino

Beast said:


> Shall be WZ-16 turboshaft. One Z-18 runs 3 of them.



No, the WZ-16 is as far as I know a Chinese version of the French Ardidden and proposed for the Z-15. The Z-18 uses an improved version of the WZ-6C turboshaft.


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## Beast

Deino said:


> No, the WZ-16 is as far as I know a Chinese version of the French Ardidden and proposed for the Z-15. The Z-18 uses an improved version of the WZ-6C turboshaft.



Lets not be so sure. From what I know W-16 turboshaft main purpose is to use on WZ-10 gunship too and is in production since 2013/2014. Plus Z-18A is a military helo, not only its requirement is high attitude for Tibet, it needs to be armour to be suitable for military use. PLA do have certain requirement. This will increase its weight compare to AC313, civilian purpose. It needs something like PT6C or W-16 turboshaft horsepower to serve its purpose. I doubt a simply slight upthrust like W-6C turboshaft can satisfy PLA requirement.


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## IrbiS

wanglaokan said:


> Is PAF going for FC31 deal confirmed yet?


That soon?


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## IrbiS

*ANALYSIS: What future for China's air power?*

By: GREG WALDRON
SINGAPORE
Source: 


11:09 4 Nov 2014

China’s biennial aviation gathering in Zhuhai is among the most exciting shows on the global circuit. The People’s Liberation Army Air Force’s (PLAAF) August 1st display team has no qualms about roaring above the crowd with their Chengdu J-10A fighters, ejecting flares with every pass. Invariably the Chengdu JF-17, still in search of a buyer beyond Pakistan, will make an appearance, and the Russian Knights will likely be in the air with their Sukhoi Su-27s. With luck, the show, which runs on 11-16 November, will not be afflicted by smog, which restricted the flying displays in 2010, or strong winds, which restricted displays in 2012.

However impressive the displays, the real action for defence experts is in the halls, which hold a staggering array of conceptual models, weapons blatantly imitated from the West, and models of developmental and conceptual unmanned air vehicles. The shoot down of Malaysian Airlines MH17 notwithstanding, there will inevitably be a hall filled with surface-to-air missile systems. Large interactive displays and videos will show how all this firepower will come together seamlessly – and lethally – in networked combat scenarios.

In 2010, one large mural displayed imagery of Chinese aircraft and ground-launched missiles attacking a US aircraft carrier. The US carrier did not make an appearance in 2012, but given recent tensions between Beijing and Washington, it would be no surprise if US forces take another virtual beating at this year’s show.

While the show offers a unique glimpse into Chinese airpower capabilities, both real and imagined, it tends to leave many questions unanswered. For China aviation experts, it is generally more notable not for the types of aircraft that are displayed at the show, but for those that are not.







August 1st J-10A at Zhuhai 2012

One type that failed to appear in any form whatsoever at the 2012 show was the Chengdu J-20. Given that this aircraft first flew in January 2011, just six weeks after Zhuhai, its failure to appear in 2012 was not entirely surprising. More surprising, perhaps, was the complete lack of pictures related to the jet or scale models. Whether the J-20 will appear in any form at this year’s show is anyone’s guess, but even a model of the type will draw significant attention.

In the last two years the J-20 appears to have made a good deal of progress. Flight tests have been ongoing around Chengdu, dutifully observed by local plane spotters, and photos of a fourth prototype bearing the registration number 2012 emerged in June 2014. The two most recent prototypes of the aircraft have a blister under the nose, possibly intended for an infrared search and track (IRST) sensor. There were also refinements to the intakes and modifications to control surfaces.

In 2013 images and videos emerged showing the aircraft flying with the two main weapons bays in its belly open, each capable of carrying two radar guided air-to-air missiles. Other images and videos, breathlessly speculated upon by Chinese enthusiasts, showed its side-weapons bay open. Some footage showed the aircraft carrying a PL-10 short-range IR homing missile, while others showed the extended rail without a missile. One animated video – of questionable origin – suggests the J-20’s side missile bays can carry up to three missiles each. Before launch, the door opens and a rail carrying the missile is extended, after which the door closes again. After the round is launched, the rail returns inside the aircraft to collect another missile.

Otherwise, little is known about the J-20 platform, such as the numbers Beijing intends to procure, other variants, or even its eventual missions – although the weapons it has been spotted with thus far suggest aerial superiority is a key focus. Moreover, the perennial problem that faces all Chinese fighters also faces the J-20: engines. The prototypes are believed to be powered by the Saturn AL-31F from Russia, which also powers the J-10 and Su-27. It is also believed that China’s indigenous engine, the WS-10, may have been deployed aboard one of the J-20 prototypes, but experts are divided on this.

The J-20’s low observable qualities are also open to question. Aside from the challenges inherent in developing and maintaining stealth coatings for combat aircraft, the type’s large canards are not consistent with a low-observable design.

Another mystery into which visitors to Zhuhai will hope to gain some insight is China’s other “stealth” fighter, the Shenyang J-31. Images of the J-31 first appeared in September 2012. Just two months later a model of the type appeared – without a designation – on the AVIC stand at Zhuhai. When asked about the aircraft, AVIC personnel at the show were noncommittal.

In the two years since its emergence, footage has appeared on social media sites showing the J-31 taking off and flying. It is still not clear if the J-31, which has a more conventional layout reminiscent of the Lockheed Martin F-35, is intended to complement the J-20 or compete with it for a production contract. There is speculation that China would like to develop the type with a foreign partner, possibly Pakistan, or develop it as the key type aboard future Chinese aircraft carriers. Social media suggests the J-31 could appear in the flying display this year, but show organisers or other officials have yet to confirm this.

Daniel Darling, an analyst at research firm Forecast International, underlines the challenges involved in understanding these two programmes.

“Considering both of these platforms are still in development and – due to China's tight control over media and military – not subject to much transparency, it is difficult to discern exactly what the J-20 and J-31 say about China's airpower strengths, except that a safe determination would be that they are not yet quite up to Western standards simply because the [Lockheed Martin] F-22 is in service and the F-35 is now in low-rate production,” he says.

“Seen from another angle, China appears going forward to have adopted an approach similar to that of the former USSR – numbers overcome firepower, and the cheaper and easier it is to produce (and operate) hardware the greater chance that any military-technological edge an opponent may have could be eroded.”

Darling adds that the scarcity of concrete information about the two types makes it challenging to list the strengths and weaknesses of the types against Western aircraft such as the F-22, F-35, Dassault Rafale, and Eurofighter Typhoon.

“Most indications are that fire-control radars and weapons loads appear 'comparable' to that of US standards,” he says. “Since neither platform has begun full-scale production – and the J-31 is either destined for the export market or carrier-based operations depending on which state-run media outlet is reporting – it is too early to determine the level of gap [depending on if there is one] between, say, the J-20 and the F-22. The J-20 design appears to continually be undergoing refinement as China works on advancing the model.”

Although the future could see PLAAF squadrons kitted out with J-20s and the decks of Chinese carriers covered with J-31s, the mainstay of China’s combat airpower resides in types such as the single-engined Chengdu J-10A and Shenyang J-11, a direct copy of the Sukhoi Su-27. The People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) has also been conducting flight tests with the Shenyang J-15 "Flying Shark", an aircraft all-but-identical to the Russian Su-33, which appeared on the deck of the Soviet carrier Admiral Kuznetsov in the 1980s.

Flightglobal’s World Air Forces directory pegs the J-10 strength at 200 aircraft, and J-11/Su-27 strength at over 300. Of the pair, the J-10 appears to be the key programme for development, filling niches similar to the F-16 in Western air forces. A J-10B variant has been developed with an IRST mounted in front of the cockpit, modified control surfaces and an upgraded engine. This type is likely being rolled out into the fleet. In addition, in 2012, a model of a J-10S twin-seat variant was shown at Zhuhai, featuring a dorsal spine, similar to later models of the F-16, and carrying bombs.

Beijing is also reportedly interested in the Su-35, the most advanced variant of the Su-27 family, but a deal with Russia has yet to be confirmed. Beijing also has a large fleet of older fighters such as the J-7, China’s copy of the Mikoyan MiG-21, and the Shenyang J-8. The World Air Forces directory indicates that China operates 388 J-7s and 96 J-8s.

One notable participant at the last two instalments of the Zhuhai show is the Xian H-6H – based on the Tupolev Tu-16 – long range bomber. The World Air Forces directory shows the PLAAF operating 120 H-6s and the PLAN 14. This type is used for a range of missions, including conventional bombing, cruise missile strike, air-to-air refuelling and intelligence gathering. The H-6H that has appeared at the last two iterations of the show can carry two long-range cruise missiles under its wings. A more advanced variant, the H-6M, has yet to make its appearance at Zhuhai. The H-6M sees the navigator’s station in the nose replaced with a radar, similar to Western bombers, and it has the capability to carry a total of four cruise missiles, giving it twice the armament as previous H-6 versions.






The Xian H-6 fulfills a number of roles, from cruise missile attack to aerial refuelling

Experts will also be looking for models or images that hint at China’s supposed plans to build a long-range bomber aircraft. Chinese defence enthusiast sites have been abuzz with rumours and speculation about such a programme for quite a while. If such an aircraft exists, the world’s first confirmation will all too likely come from enthusiasts monitoring activity at Chinese aircraft production centres.

Support aircraft, such as transports and airborne early warning & control (AEW&C) will also be a key area of interest at this year’s show.

“China continues to emphasise Russian-based models to meet many specific niche capabilities such as AEW&C,” says Forecast’s Darling. “Its force-multipliers are often derived from Russian technologies or are purchased from Russia directly [example: the Tu-154s converted in the early 1990s for ELINT and electronic-warfare purposes]. This is an area where China has a distinct gap vis-à-vis its strategic rivals to the east [ie the USA and Japan], but it is also part of a longer-term push to reduce the capabilities gap between the West and the PLAAF/PLAN.”

Although Zhuhai will no doubt offer some hints about Beijing’s future war fighting aspirations, and the kit it wants to sell to overseas buyers, one area where it is unlikely to shed much light on is the most important element in airpower: people.

Although the August 1st team will put on a thrilling aerial display, the team’s last minute failure to appear at the Singapore air show in early 2014 raises questions about the professionalism of the team – and the broader Chinese air force. Sources familiar with the team say it had planned to transit Thailand on the way to the show, but that the PLAAF insisted on its own controllers guiding the aircraft in for landing. In addition, the team apparently demanded extensive air space restrictions be imposed in Singapore before and after their flying display, but this would have disrupted commercial flights at Changi airport. In the end, the team was a no-show.

A far more serious incident occurred in August, when a PLAAF J-11B performed an extremely aggressive intercept of a Boeing P-8A Poseidon operated by the US Navy over the South China Sea east of Hainan Island. During one pass, the J-11B was about 50-100ft (15-30m) from the 737-based patrol aircraft. A Pentagon spokesman described the intercept as “very close, very dangerous…pretty aggressive and very unprofessional.” Some US military officials believe pilots or specific PLAAF units could be acting on their own. The incident conjured up memories of a Shenyang J-8’s collision with a US Navy EP-3E Orion in 2001 during a close intercept. The J-8 crashed and the pilot was killed, but the EP-3E managed to make an emergency landing in Hainan, resulting in a major international incident.

Nonetheless, in recent years Beijing has placed a greater emphasis on training, In September the PLAAF held its fourth annual "Gold Helmet" air combat exercise over the Gobi desert. Official announcements about the exercise indicate that 170 pilots took place in this year’s event, which focuses on air-to-air combat.

For China defence watchers, Zhuhai is an essential. That said, it can raise more questions than it answers. One thing that will definitely be new at this year’s show is the advent of the first female display pilot in the August 1st team. China’s defence ministry has issued a statement declaring this news. Unfortunately its transparency does not extend greatly beyond this.

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## cirr

B or C？

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## Deino

cirr said:


> B or C？



Depends on the full number, that is sadly ps'ed away ! I would however say it's a B !


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## Deino

After a first image of this new version was posted at the CDF a few months ago in April ... now here's the first clear image of the Y-8GX-11 ELINT version.

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## Deino

Just found for the new CA issue ... surely most interesting !!!








> *SPECIAL REPORT: AT DAJIAOCHANG*
> Ivan Voukadinov presents an exclusive photo-report from Nanjing-Dajiaochang, currently home to an impressive force of PLAAF H-6 bombers



Combat Aircraft Monthly: The World's Favourite Military Aviation Magazine

Deino


PS: from me there is the Zhuhai Airshow report included.

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## Deino

And a new KJ-500 ready for delivery to the PLAAF ....

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## IrbiS




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## Deino

Uppss ... that's my short news report (sadly I still don't have my issue) just prior to closing for press ! (is there also an image of '2013' ?? ... and as You can see it was done before '2015' was correctly identified; but that's then in the next issue.

Deino



PS: Could You please tell me how long the Zhuhai report is in the issue ???
PPS: can anyone help me to send someone a message ??


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## IrbiS

Deino said:


> (is there also an image of '2013' ?? ... and as You can see it was done before '2015' was correctly identified; but that's then in the next issue.
> 
> Deino
> 
> 
> 
> PS: Could You please tell me how long the Zhuhai report is in the issue ???


Don't worry I'll post ASAP. Till then enjoy this

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## IrbiS



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## cirr

Deino said:


> And a new KJ-500 ready for delivery to the PLAAF ....
> 
> View attachment 180161



The name “*KJ-600*" is taken。

Now we can all start speculating what it might be and when it might reveal itself to the public。


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## Deino

cirr said:


> The name “*KJ-600*" is taken。
> 
> Now we can all start speculating what it might be and when it might reveal itself to the public。




Where do You have this designation from ??? KJ-500 was the number given "unofficially" since years ... so I'm a bit surprised ?!


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## IrbiS



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## applesauce

Umair Khan Niazi said:


> View attachment 181186



there are no "interaction" protocols between US and china, what US says is not normal means absolutely nothing.

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## IrbiS

applesauce said:


> there are no "interaction" protocols between US and china, what US says is not normal means absolutely nothing.


They do this with Russians regularly, its nice to see someone's foot on U.S' tail


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## IrbiS

World Air Forces 2015 FLIGHT International

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## zon95

China has tried to import Russian AESA radar but failed. They can design AESA radar (thanks to Ukraine and Russia as well as Isaerl) for large ships, AWACS, but the design of miniature circuit AESA radar standard GaN MMICs (in the military) China not likely. I know fanboy china will take a few examples in the civilian sector as Ka-band MMIC nitride semiconductor (or can be copied) http://www.semiconductor-today.com/features/PDF/SemiconductorToday_SeptOct_KaBandNMMIC.pdf. But most AESA radar is located at L-band frequencies (N050) and X-band (APG-77). Another example of Chinese supercomputer but they use Intel Xeon chip, radar N050 using chip 2S + Elbrus, APG-77 radar used i960MX chip. Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) !!

China to buy 5,000 Russian air-to-air missiles

Since China's domestic air-to-air missiles such as the PL-12, the SD-10A and the PL-9C were designed based on technology from Ukraine and are still unable to compete against US counterparts, the People's Liberation Army realizes that it needs the more advanced Russian missiles to go head to head against the US and Japan in any potential future air combat, Roku wrote. He said China has already bought 1,500 R-77 missiles and 3,300 R-73 missiles from Russia.

China to buy 5,000 Russian air-to-air missiles: Japanese report｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet

Russia has rejected the idea of providing China with a radar system suitable for fifth-generation stealth fighters like the Chengdu J-20, according to Kanwa Defense Review, a Chinese-language military magazine published in Canada.

Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet: Kanwa｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com


Mikron products are sold to South-Eastern Asia. The main export countries are China, Taiwan and Hong Kong.

JSC Mikron: Private Company Information - Businessweek
Cryptography Research and Mikron JSC Sign Patent License Agreement for DPA Countermeasures - Bloomberg

Another proof, the Chinese do not have the ability to design the semiconductor, IC best small (micro), they can copy the shape but quality very poor. The most obvious example, China has a lot of SAMs and A2A however with 5 missiles shared a homing seeker head AMR-1 include: PL-10/11/12, HQ-61C, TY-60 has shown the ability to fabricate miniature electronic components in China is very low


----------



## Akasa

vietminh said:


> China has tried to import Russian AESA radar but failed. They can design AESA radar (thanks to Ukraine and Russia as well as Isaerl) for large ships, AWACS, but the design of miniature circuit AESA radar standard GaN MMICs (in the military) China not likely. I know fanboy china will take a few examples in the civilian sector as Ka-band MMIC nitride semiconductor (or can be copied) http://www.semiconductor-today.com/features/PDF/SemiconductorToday_SeptOct_KaBandNMMIC.pdf. But most AESA radar is located at L-band frequencies (N050) and X-band (APG-77). Another example of Chinese supercomputer but they use Intel Xeon chip, radar N050 using chip 2S + Elbrus, APG-77 radar used i960MX chip. Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) !!
> 
> China to buy 5,000 Russian air-to-air missiles
> 
> Since China's domestic air-to-air missiles such as the PL-12, the SD-10A and the PL-9C were designed based on technology from Ukraine and are still unable to compete against US counterparts, the People's Liberation Army realizes that it needs the more advanced Russian missiles to go head to head against the US and Japan in any potential future air combat, Roku wrote. He said China has already bought 1,500 R-77 missiles and 3,300 R-73 missiles from Russia.
> 
> China to buy 5,000 Russian air-to-air missiles: Japanese report｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> 
> Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet
> 
> Russia has rejected the idea of providing China with a radar system suitable for fifth-generation stealth fighters like the Chengdu J-20, according to Kanwa Defense Review, a Chinese-language military magazine published in Canada.
> 
> Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet: Kanwa｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com
> 
> 
> Mikron products are sold to South-Eastern Asia. The main export countries are China, Taiwan and Hong Kong.
> 
> JSC Mikron: Private Company Information - Businessweek
> Cryptography Research and Mikron JSC Sign Patent License Agreement for DPA Countermeasures - Bloomberg
> 
> Another proof, the Chinese do not have the ability to design the semiconductor, IC best small (micro), they can copy the shape but quality very poor. The most obvious example, China has a lot of SAMs and A2A however with 5 missiles shared a homing seeker head AMR-1 include: PL-10/11/12, HQ-61C, TY-60 has shown the ability to fabricate miniature electronic components in China is very low



Note how none of your sources have had a decent track record in reporting these "news" pieces.



Umair Khan Niazi said:


> World Air Forces 2015 FLIGHT International
> 
> View attachment 182118



WAF shouldn't jump the gun and report the Su-35 until further evidence is presented.

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## zon95

SinoSoldier said:


> Note how none of your sources have had a decent track record in reporting these "news" pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> WAF shouldn't jump the gun and report the Su-35 until further evidence is presented.


If you do not believe you can ignore but read below


----------



## AgentOrange

SinoSoldier said:


> Note how none of your sources have had a decent track record in reporting these "news" pieces.
> 
> 
> 
> WAF shouldn't jump the gun and report the Su-35 until further evidence is presented.



Why would China buy radars from Russia for the J-20 when the latest two J-20 prototypes are clearly equipped with Chinese AESA radars already?

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## zon95

AgentOrange said:


> Why would China buy radars from Russia for the J-20 *when the latest two J-20 prototypes are clearly equipped with Chinese AESA radars already?*



*Chinese AESA radars already  it is rumor*

*Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) and already picture *

AESA radar is the name of the class radar, you can not be referred to China's AESA radar, which is false and absurd, one of the unacceptable. *The Russians had Zhuk-A, Zhuk-AE (L-band), Americans had APG-77/81 (X-band), European had Captor-E (X-band)*. *But China? simply AESA radar and all the information is on paper as well as military forum*

China can produce seeker for Ashm YJ-82/83/8/62/12 large size (even HQ-2, HQ-9, DF-21, KT-1, JL-2) , they mostly contain electronic circuits with large size, China can easily copy, but for the small seeker as R-27/77, AIM-120, China is not likely, because a tiny circuit sizes are difficult to copy the design, performance of China's missile arsenal as PL 9/10/11/12 is also a big question mark?


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## AgentOrange

vietminh said:


> *Chinese AESA radars already  it is rumor*
> 
> *Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) and already picture *
> 
> AESA radar is the name of the class radar, you can not be referred to China's AESA radar, which is false and absurd, one of the unacceptable. *The Russians had Zhuk-A, Zhuk-AE (L-band), Americans had APG-77/81 (X-band), European had Captor-E (X-band)*. *But China? simply AESA radar and all the information is on paper as well as military forum*
> 
> China can produce seeker for Ashm YJ-82/83/8/62/12 large size (even HQ-2, HQ-9, DF-21, KT-1, JL-2) , they mostly contain electronic circuits with large size, China can easily copy, but for the small seeker as R-27/77, AIM-120, China is not likely, because a tiny circuit sizes are difficult to copy the design, performance of China's missile arsenal as PL 9/10/11/12 is also a big question mark?



Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here ya go. There are pictures of the radar testbed with the J-20 radar equipped. You can google it yourself. 

*Type 1475 radar*
The *Type 1475* (KLJ-5) is a multifunction radar under development for the Chengdu J-20 fighter aircraft.

It is a solid-state, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, composed of 1856 transmit/receive modules. It is currently being tested on a PLAAF Tupolev Tu-204 testbed aircraft[49]

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## ChineseTiger1986

AgentOrange said:


> Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here ya go.
> 
> *Type 1475 radar*
> The *Type 1475* (KLJ-5) is a multifunction radar under development for the Chengdu J-20 fighter aircraft.
> 
> It is a solid-state, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, composed of 1856 transmit/receive modules. It is currently being tested on a PLAAF Tupolev Tu-204 testbed aircraft[49]



The Viet members here can hardly make any constructive comments except trolling, so we should prohibit them to post in our military section.

We don't visit their military section, but they should leave ours alone as well.

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## Deino

To admit I don’t know what’s Your true intention behind this post, but using unreliable sources and even more dated or plain wrong information is surely not the best way to proof anything.

First of all KANWA and even more in combination with WantChinaTimes.com is surely the best way to tear down even the final bit of reliability one has as a member here … as such the only proof You give with this post is Your intention to troll !

Anyway let’s stick to Your post….



vietminh said:


> China has tried to import Russian AESA radar but failed. They can design AESA radar (thanks to Ukraine and Russia as well as Isaerl) for large ships, AWACS, but the design of miniature circuit AESA radar standard GaN MMICs (in the military) China not likely. I know fanboy china will take a few examples in the civilian sector as Ka-band MMIC nitride semiconductor (or can be copied) http://www.semiconductor-today.com/features/PDF/SemiconductorToday_SeptOct_KaBandNMMIC.pdf. But most AESA radar is located at L-band frequencies (N050) and X-band (APG-77). Another example of Chinese supercomputer but they use Intel Xeon chip, radar N050 using chip 2S + Elbrus, APG-77 radar used i960MX chip. Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) !!



It’s all speculation … and even more I don’t know if we ever will learn the name of the J-20’s radar processor ! You are correct: I do not know the exact designation of the J-10B’s, the J-15 or -16’s radar nor the processors they use … but what else ? To we know that from every other type in the West ?
By the way while other AF widely report about what kind of AESA they use and “will” use (not often correct as shown with the Russian T50), the PLAAF simply does not report at all … or at best by some secretly hidden bits and pieces … that does not mean they are not working on or with it already.



> *China to buy 5,000 Russian air-to-air missiles*
> Since China's domestic air-to-air missiles such as the PL-12, the SD-10A and the PL-9C were designed based on technology from Ukraine and are still unable to compete against US counterparts, the People's Liberation Army realizes that it needs the more advanced Russian missiles to go head to head against the US and Japan in any potential future air combat, Roku wrote. He said China has already bought 1,500 R-77 missiles and 3,300 R-73 missiles from Russia.
> China to buy 5,000 Russian air-to-air missiles: Japanese report｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com



Sorry again, but WantChinaTimes.com is in general as much reliable as the German “Bild” in regard to international politics or business … even more it mixes designations (the SD-10A is the PL-12’s export version), or is plain wrong: the PL-9 is an export weapon, the PLAAF uses the PL-8 which is a licenced Python III … and where is written that they “will buy” 5000 missiles only since the “bought” the older types ???



> *Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet*
> Russia has rejected the idea of providing China with a radar system suitable for fifth-generation stealth fighters like the Chengdu J-20, according to Kanwa Defense Review, a Chinese-language military magazine published in Canada.
> Russia won't sell China radar system for J-20 stealth jet: Kanwa｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com



Funny, this is simply the idea of a reporter here and not the PLAAF’s wish ! As such since the USA are rejecting the faked idea to sell the PLN one USS Nimitz class carrier is surely proof that the PLN is way behind the USN … again only a piece of bad reporting; typical Kanwa-style.


> Another proof, the Chinese do not have the ability to design the semiconductor, IC best small (micro), they can copy the shape but quality very poor. The most obvious example, China has a lot of SAMs and A2A however with 5 missiles shared a homing seeker head AMR-1 include: PL-10/11/12, HQ-61C, TY-60 has shown the ability to fabricate miniature electronic components in China is very low



Another plain wrong BS … not even worth to bother: the PL-10 is an ASRAAM-like SR-AAM, the PL_11 is a development of the Italian Aside, a SARH-AAM and the PL-12 is an AMRAAM-like ARH-AAM … they simply can’t use the same seeker !

Anyway You are in one point correct: the PLAAF has an age-issue with its combat fleet, but given the numbers of J-10 and J-11 in all versions joining the fleet during the last years, they are indeed in a much better position than many other air arms around the world.

All the best,
Deino

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## 帅的一匹

Only God can help those ignorant and illiterate Vietcong.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> Only God can help those ignorant and illiterate Vietcong.



No，even God has given up on them.

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## jkroo

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> The Viet members here can hardly make any constructive comments except trolling, so we should prohibit them to post in our military section.
> 
> We don't visit their military section, but they should leave ours alone as well.



Ignore them. We all know domestic AESA tech has involved to 3rd generation.

AESA radar become a problem?  

We should admire their self brain washing capabilities.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*Fresh picture of China's new Z-18 single-rotor helicopter for transport & rescue ops. Armed with torpedoes.*


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## Deino

Major Shaitan Singh said:


> *Fresh picture of China's new Z-18 single-rotor helicopter for transport & rescue ops. Armed with torpedoes.*



Ähhhm ...but Your image shows the only recently unveiled PLA transport version ! Could it be that You added the wrong image ???


----------



## zon95

AgentOrange said:


> Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here ya go. There are pictures of the radar testbed with the J-20 radar equipped. You can google it yourself.
> 
> Type 1475 radar
> The Type 1475 (KLJ-5) is a multifunction radar under development for the Chengdu J-20 fighter aircraft.
> 
> It is a solid-state, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar, composed of 1856 transmit/receive modules. It is currently being tested on a PLAAF Tupolev Tu-204 testbed aircraft[49]



you can really see radar or just see the tip of the Tu-204?
Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) ! you don't understand ?







Deino said:


> To admit I don’t know what’s Your true intention behind this post, but using unreliable sources and even more dated or plain wrong information is surely not the best way to proof anything.
> 
> First of all KANWA and even more in combination with WantChinaTimes.com is surely the best way to tear down even the final bit of reliability one has as a member here … as such the only proof You give with this post is Your intention to troll !
> 
> Anyway let’s stick to Your post….
> 
> 
> 
> It’s all speculation … and even more I don’t know if we ever will learn the name of the J-20’s radar processor ! You are correct: I do not know the exact designation of the J-10B’s, the J-15 or -16’s radar nor the processors they use … but what else ? To we know that from every other type in the West ?
> By the way while other AF widely report about what kind of AESA they use and “will” use (not often correct as shown with the Russian T50), the PLAAF simply does not report at all … or at best by some secretly hidden bits and pieces … that does not mean they are not working on or with it already.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry again, but WantChinaTimes.com is in general as much reliable as the German “Bild” in regard to international politics or business … even more it mixes designations (the SD-10A is the PL-12’s export version), or is plain wrong: the PL-9 is an export weapon, the PLAAF uses the PL-8 which is a licenced Python III … and where is written that they “will buy” 5000 missiles only since the “bought” the older types ???
> 
> 
> 
> Funny, this is simply the idea of a reporter here and not the PLAAF’s wish ! As such since the USA are rejecting the faked idea to sell the PLN one USS Nimitz class carrier is surely proof that the PLN is way behind the USN … again only a piece of bad reporting; typical Kanwa-style.
> 
> 
> Another plain wrong BS … not even worth to bother: the PL-10 is an ASRAAM-like SR-AAM, the PL_11 is a development of the Italian Aside, a SARH-AAM and the PL-12 is an AMRAAM-like ARH-AAM … they simply can’t use the same seeker !
> 
> Anyway You are in one point correct: the PLAAF has an age-issue with its combat fleet, but given the numbers of J-10 and J-11 in all versions joining the fleet during the last years, they are indeed in a much better position than many other air arms around the world.
> 
> All the best,
> Deino



Yourself are not aware of the AESA radar J-10B, J-16, how can assert their existence and China AESA technology equivalent European, Russia, the United States?

PL-12 seeker head

Prior to the emergence of the PL-12, China's active radar seeker AAM development programme was sometimes identified as the 'AMR-1'. During Air Show China 1996, held during November in Zhuhai, the China Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute/No 607 Research Institute exhibited a newly developed active radar seeker, the AMR-1. This seeker was, in turn, believed to have been applied to a new air- to-air missile design, derived from the LY-60 surface-to-air missile, and dubbed the 'PL-12'. This active radar missile, and the earlier semi-active radar homing PL-11, seemed to have a common design heritage with the Italian Aspide missile, supplied to China during the late 1980s. The status of the PL-11 and 'LY-60/PL-12' development programmes is unclear, but sources within CATIC say these earlier programmes have all been abandoned in favor of the PL-12.

PL-12 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PL-11 seeker head

The AMR-1 is an advanced next-generation medium-range active terminal guidance air-to-air missile seeker developed by China's Leihua Electronic Technology Research Institute. The flat-plate antenna bears some resemblance to that of active version of Russian AA-10, although the extent of Russian assistance if any is unclear. The seeker may be integrated onto PL-11 [_Pili_ = Thunderbolt, or _Pen Lung_ = Air Dragon] air-to-air missile which is reportedly based on the Italian Aspide airframe. The seeker is equipped with a miniaturized pulse Doppler radar and has the following capabilities: all- weather and omnibearing attack, low- latitude down-firing, fire-and-forget beyond-the-horizon launch, and interception and tracking of target in complicated electronic interference environments. Its technical sophistication is close to that of the advanced medium-range air-to-air missile, AMRAAM and Russia's P-77 "fire-and-forget" missile which has caught worldwide interest. However, an insufficient military budget and low-price competition from Russian missiles have cast batch production of this missile into doubt.

AMR-1

PL-10 seeker head

The Air Force version of the LY-60 is the FD-60 semi-active radar-guided air-to-air missile carried by the J8B fighter plane, which is very similar to the _Aspide_ AAM of Italy in appearance. This missile, which is evidently also known as the PL-10 [_Pili_ = Thunderbolt, or _Pen Lung_ = Air Dragon] medium range air-to-air missile is a Chinese copy of the Italian _Aspide_, which was developed from the American AIM-7E Sparrow. The bodies of the two missiles are generally similar, though the wings of the air-to-air PL-10 mirror those of the Sparrow, while the LY-60 wings have evidently been truncated to improve storage. The application of the same missile to both air-to-air and ship-to-air applications emulates the American practice with the Sparrow, which started life as an air-to-air missile with subsequent shipboard deployments.

LY-60 / PL-10

PL-11A的主动雷达导引头改型。装有607所研制的AMR-1主动导引头

霹雳11空空导弹_百度百科

霹雳”-12使用607所于九十年代末研制成功的AMR-1主动雷达导引头。未经证实的报道称AMR-1的研制得到了俄国“玛瑙”设计局的技术支持，而正是该设计局研制了R-77/AA-12主动雷达制导中距空空导弹的导引头。也有报道称“霹雳”-12使用了一些基于以色列“女低音”中距空空导弹的元件，但未经证实。“霹雳”-12由中国设计的火箭发动机推进，最大射程70千米，最大速度4倍音速。据称该导弹机动性优于俄国R-77，综合性能接近美国AIM-120A。

我国自主研发的“霹雳”-12中距空空导弹 图 对日本：菩萨心肠还是霹雳手段？ 转贴 图 --- ido.3mt.com.cn

*The source of China's ridiculous, they collide with each other*: 

active seeker may have evolved from the earlier AMR-1 design (R-129? based on Russian 9B-1348 seeker & datalink for R-77)

Chinese Military Aviation: Missiles I
絲帶用彈 - 萬維論壇

*But please read note: R-77 uses new technology called multifunction doppler-monopulse*. *PL-12/11/10 seeker head is pulse-doppler*.

*Remember AMR-1 seeker is designed first on LY-60 missiles it launched in the late 1980s. China has purchased R-77 missiles the first time, be accompanied by Su-30MKK in 1991-2004*


----------



## Falcon Striker

What About Pakistan Getting this Baby


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## AgentOrange

vietminh said:


> you can really see radar or just see the tip of the Tu-204?
> *Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) !* you don't understand ?
> 
> 
> 
> Yourself are not aware of the AESA radar J-10B, J-16, *how can assert their existence and China AESA technology equivalent European, Russia, the United States?*




You're right. It's all an elaborate ruse because you, a random Viet nobody on the internet, do not have 3 independently confirmed sources on the radar of China's most classified fighter project.

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## Deino

vietminh said:


> you can really see radar or just see the tip of the Tu-204?
> *Any names or prototype chip of AESA radar KLJ-5 (J-20) !* you don't understand ?
> 
> ...
> 
> Yourself are not aware of the AESA radar J-10B, J-16, *how can assert their existence and China AESA technology equivalent European, Russia, the United States? *




First of all it is not relevant ! The problem is more that You take false and unreliable sources to try to proof anything that fit's Your opinion, but in the same way You negate, ignore and take down all other evidence that there are working AESA's - or at least under development - not only purchased from Russia, Ukraine and Israel.

Even more I did not say that they are equivalent to foreign systems, while You however try to persuade that there are none ... simply by the fact that I can't tell You what's the name, address and number of kids of the worker who assembled the J-10B's or J-16's radar.

Don't get me wrong, but I would call this simply trolling around ! 

Deino

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## zon95

AgentOrange said:


> Chengdu J-20 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> Here ya go. There are pictures of the radar testbed with the J-20 radar equipped. You can google it yourself.



*Radar AESA KLj-5 *






Do you believe that it is fully functional as radar of other countries?
*Range Scanning ? 
The ability to search (number of target can track/lock) ?
Elevation scan ?
There Mode SAR ?
Chip processor ?*
maximum power ? really, not rumor
How many TR Modules ? really, not rumor
*Experiment with aerodynamics of J-20 !
The test with missile PL-11/12!*

*MiG-35, F-22, EF-2000 test with radar AESA of them
Take-off Magazine : MiG-35 passes all tests under MMRCA tender
Northrop Grumman successfully completes F-22 radar flight-test certification*
System Upgrades are Turning the Typhoon into a Multi-Mission Eurofighter | Defense Update:
*
*



Deino said:


> First of all it is not relevant ! The problem is more that You take false and unreliable sources to try to proof anything that fit's Your opinion, but in the same way You negate, ignore and take down all other evidence that there are working AESA's - or at least under development - not only purchased from Russia, Ukraine and Israel.
> 
> Even more I did not say that they are equivalent to foreign systems, while You however try to persuade that there are none ... simply by the fact that I can't tell You what's the name, address and number of kids of the worker who assembled the J-10B's or J-16's radar.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, but I would call this simply trolling around !
> 
> Deino



Ok! I just need to know the actual specs of the J-10B radar, J-16. Do you have any actual information? except forum and blog?!



>



*This image is of Chinese fanboy used many times, but I never saw any offical source*


----------



## applesauce

you all should seriously just ignore him. 

that is all.

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## cirr

Development tests of WS-18 successfully concluded on 06.12.2014，batch production to start：





（pic took on 29.10.2014 after the 1st test flight）

公司某型号发动机研制试飞圆满完成-中航工业成都发动机(集团)有限公司

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## Deino

That really made my day !

And it is not a Pegasus as I thought at first it is a stylized Eagle's head + a 33 !!

Hope that PLAAF will re-introduce some more of these unit markings or badges ....
By the way one of pilots has the "Golden Helmet" on.

Deino

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## Beast

cirr said:


> Development tests of WS-18 successfully concluded on 06.12.2014，batch production to start：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> （pic took on 29.10.2014 after the 1st test flight）
> 
> 公司某型号发动机研制试飞圆满完成-中航工业成都发动机(集团)有限公司



Can it be WS-20?



Deino said:


> That really made my day !
> 
> And it is not a Pegasus as I thought at first it is a stylized Eagle's head + a 33 !!
> 
> Hope that PLAAF will re-introduce some more of these unit markings or badges ....
> By the way one of pilots has the "Golden Helmet" on.
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 183087
> View attachment 183088
> View attachment 183089
> View attachment 183090
> View attachment 183091



Disappointing they put the paint scheme on old Su-27SK or J-11A and not full domestic made J-11B


----------



## Deino

Beast said:


> Can it be WS-20?



No, the WS-20 is much wider in diameter ... more like the CFM56, while the WS-18 is a D-30KP-2 development/clone !



> Disappointing they put the paint scheme on old Su-27SK or J-11A and not full domestic made J-11B



Yes, I hope some day the PLAAF will introduce a more J-10-style scheme on the Flankers too. By the way these are 33. Air Division fighters (J-11A and Su-27UBK).

Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> No, the WS-20 is much wider in diameter ... more like the CFM56, while the WS-18 is a D-30KP-2 development/clone !
> 
> Deino



The tested engine could be on the left side wing ,hide from our view and not the one show on foreground.


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## hk299792458

vietminh said:


> *This image is of Chinese fanboy used many times, but I never saw any offical source*



Old pics from Chengdu...
















From China Aviation Museum in Beijing...


























An article from Jane's - New pictures of J-10B revealed - IHS Jane's 360



> A new batch of mass-produced Chengdu J-10B fighters are undergoing flight and taxi tests, Chinese media has reported saying that the aircraft will enter service "soon".
> 
> The J-10B is an improved variant of the Chengdu J-10 manufactured by the state-owned Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation, also known as the Chengdu Aerospace Corporation, a subsidiary of AVIC.
> 
> The photos, which were posted on the cdjby.net military forum on 3 October, show four aircraft on the ground and two in the air. The airborne aircraft are numbered 120 and 122, while known serial numbers for the J-10B are: 101, 102, 103, 104, 106, 107, 110, 120, 122, and 201.
> 
> Chinese media also reported, without further elaboration, that some of the J-10Bs are equipped with China's own WS-10 Taihang engine. Early J-10Bs were believed to be fitted with the Russian AL-31FN M1 engine - a more powerful version of the AL-31F that powers the J-10A.
> 
> The J-10B's key differences from the J-10A include a redesigned chin intake, with the lower edge now angled forward and movable ramp replaced by a smaller, fixed, diffuser bulge that also contributes to reduced weight and radar cross-section; *a longer nose radome that is believed to house an NRIET active electronically scanned array radar*; and an electro-optic targeting sensor (infrared search and track, and laser rangefinder) mounted just forward of the windscreen, offset to starboard. It also has a new electronic warning or countermeasures pod atop the vertical stabiliser.



BTW, are you Viet fanboy ?

Henri K.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Development tests of WS-18 successfully concluded on 06.12.2014，batch production to start：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> （pic took on 29.10.2014 after the 1st test flight）
> 
> 公司某型号发动机研制试飞圆满完成-中航工业成都发动机(集团)有限公司



I just became aware that it is not the well known Il-76LL testbed but the original A-50I airframe used as the KJ-2000 prototype, with that IFR probe still attached.


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## Deino

Deino said:


> I just became aware that it is not the well known Il-76LL testbed but the original A-50I airframe used as the KJ-2000 prototype, with that IFR probe still attached.



By the way here is it without its radome ...


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## Beast

If WS-18 is true, Y-20 initial operational batch has very high chance enter service with WS-18 engine first. That will also mean H-6K will continue to be produced and form an important core of PLAAF power projection strike force since they are running D-30K engine which can be substitute with WS-18 engine.


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## Deino

My friend Bai Wei at his best again ...

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## Deino

Not exactly PLAAF but PLANAF ... via Huitong an operational JL-9G !

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## j20blackdragon



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## Deino

Does anyone know what's the current status of the JL-10 program is ?? ... the first aircraft had its maiden flight already in July 2013.
Is it delayed due to the Ukrainian-crisis (due to an Ukrainian engine) ???

Also I'm a bit surprised by this update:



> The latest news (January 2015) indicated the first *JL-10* built for PLAAF is ready for flight.


http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.de/p/trainers.html

Deino


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## aliaselin

Deino said:


> Does anyone know what's the current status of the JL-10 program is ?? ... the first aircraft had its maiden flight already in July 2013.
> Is it delayed due to the Ukrainian-crisis (due to an Ukrainian engine) ???
> 
> Also I'm a bit surprised by this update:
> 
> 
> http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.de/p/trainers.html
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 183996



2013 one is test bed for PLAAF version, and the new one is lead-in trial version


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## Deino

aliaselin said:


> 2013 one is test bed for PLAAF version, and the new one is lead-in trial version




o.k. ... but my question now is how many have been build already and where are they ? 
So far we have the AJT-prototypes 01 (most likely still the HAIG-bird), 03 (CFTE 432) and 05 (CFTE 433). No. 06 is the sole LIFT-prototype (most likely again at HAIG).

After that we've seen aircraft "10001" flown on 29. June 2013. This one became IMO (?) most likely the first PLAAF-bird (CFTE 434 - but unconfirmed) and there is PLAAF-002 (CFTE 435). Additionally we saw a few more in October 2013 with serial or c/n "L15-11" seen in TV.

So the question is: is this reportedly "first *JL-10* built for PLAAF is ready for flight" (like Huitong states at his site) in fact the first serial JL-10 to be delivered to an operational unit and all others were something like pre-serials and even more where are L15-001 to L15-010 ??? Are these already the ones von Zambia ???

Indeed a mystery little bird.

Deino


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## Deino

By the way a regular PLAAF-JL-9 !


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## aliaselin

Deino said:


> o.k. ... but my question now is how many have been build already and where are they ?
> So far we have the AJT-prototypes 01 (most likely still the HAIG-bird), 03 (CFTE 432) and 05 (CFTE 433). No. 06 is the sole LIFT-prototype (most likely again at HAIG).
> 
> After that we've seen aircraft "10001" flown on 29. June 2013. This one became IMO (?) most likely the first PLAAF-bird (CFTE 434 - but unconfirmed) and there is PLAAF-002 (CFTE 435). Additionally we saw a few more in October 2013 with serial or c/n "L15-11" seen in TV.
> 
> So the question is: is this reportedly "first *JL-10* built for PLAAF is ready for flight" (like Huitong states at his site) in fact the first serial JL-10 to be delivered to an operational unit and all others were something like pre-serials and even more where are L15-001 to L15-010 ??? Are these already the ones von Zambia ???
> 
> Indeed a mystery little bird.
> 
> Deino


The first 6 test birds are L-15 prototypes, and L15-11 is most probable built for Zambia. Then in 2013, they further developed JL-10 based on L-15 according to PLAAF's specific requirement, and you can call that one as prototype of JL-10. The recent built one is lead-in trial JL-10, and PLAAF will give further suggestion to modify it to finalize the design for JL-10.


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## nomi007

y-9 inside


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## aliaselin

Offcial news reveals that fighter used AESA radar is worked out in 2009. As I know the first report


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## Deino

aliaselin said:


> Offcial news reveals that fighter used AESA radar is worked out in 2009. As I know the first report




Yes ... that report - sometimes misinterpret to be related to the J-20's radar was posted at the SDF:

The quite long report is said to contain some interesting information from an official report on Youquan Lin, the chief engineer of China's first AESA radar for a fighter.

*中国首部机载有源相控阵雷达设计水平与F22相当|中国|雷达|F22_新浪军事

Additional explanation by "tphuang":*



> An article on 14th institute talks about development of China's first AESA radar for fighter jet. It will be x-band based and won national awards in 2009/2010. From that, it seems like they flight tested it by 2009/2010. From all of that, it seems likes this radar is developed for J-10B/C although we have heard rumours on Chinese bbs that the first batch of J-10B we saw are using PESA radar. None of which is conclusive. So this AESA radar is either going to already be on the first batch of J-10B that we saw or on the second batch (J-10C as some calls it).
> Technology wise, the article claimed that it has same level of technology as APG-77 on F-22. And that 14th Institute is using experience from developing this radar to develop J-20's radar. For the first part, I think it could just be talking about the usage of GaA T/R modules and the design of the radar rather than the actual power/capability of the radar.


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## cirr

Deino said:


> By the way a regular PLAAF-JL-9 !
> 
> View attachment 184182





The old





and the new

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## HRK

cirr said:


> The old
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> and the new



JL-9 with DSI ..... further detail of improvements ...


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## Deino

HRK said:


> JL-9 with DSI ..... further detail of improvements ...



seems as if the wing geometry is different as well as the vertical tail.

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## DANGER-ZONE

HRK said:


> JL-9 with DSI ..... further detail of improvements ...



Oh Boy ... @Superboy look this plane got DSI. Another 4+++ gen. plane in making.


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## cirr

Three of these took to the air on 21.01.2015：






AVIC's Hongdu Aircraft Co. Ltd to conduct over 500 flight tests in 2015，double the number in 2014 of 254.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Three of these took to the air on 21.01.2015：
> 
> AVIC's Hongdu Aircraft Co. Ltd to conduct over 500 flight tests in 2015，double the number in 2014 of 254.



Nice ... do we know the serials ?? ... and even more if they are for the PLAAF or are these for Zambia ?

Deino


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## Deino

PS: ... why do I always have that feeling as if the old L-15's Eagle's head is psed on the tail ???






Deino


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## cirr

J-11D to make maiden flight within 2 weeks（before the Chinese New Year）

S-35s。。。。。。

L-15s

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## Deino

cirr said:


> ... L-15s




Nice ... are these for the PLAAF - and as such JL-10 - or for Zambia ?


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## Beast

I heard the L-15 radar are PESA.


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## Deino

I don't think so ... not even a real radar itself. As a trainer they only need a ranging or weather radar.


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## Beast

Deino said:


> I don't think so ... not even a real radar itself. As a trainer they only need a ranging or weather radar.











The video claimed L-15 is capable of precision strike, engine is FADEC. Performance is comparable to 3th gen(western 4th gen).

The test pilot claimed inside the radome of L-15 contained a radar which allows to perform all weather combat role. Trainer usually do not have radar but he claimed L-15 will fit with radar. He did not mention what type of radar but from picture, it looks like PESA since doppler pulse do not looks like that.

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## Deino

O.k. ... that is new to me !


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## j20blackdragon



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## IrbiS



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## IrbiS



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## Deino

Umair Khan Niazi said:


> View attachment 190839




Is this in the current Combat Aircraft issue ?? ... and are there more images or "only" the J-20 included ?

Thanks in advance,
Deino


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## IrbiS

Deino said:


> Is this in the current Combat Aircraft issue ?? ... and are there more images or "only" the J-20 included ?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Deino


Yes new one. It's the image but I've read that recently not one but 2 new examples have been flown

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## Deino

Yes, that's already known but I only wanted to know if CA used more images than only this J-20.


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## cirr

H-6M carrying a pair of YJ-100s

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> H-6M carrying a pair of YJ-100s




How could the supposed YJ100 and the KD20 missiles be told apart?

Another question: when will the J-15 receive AESA upgraded radars?

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## Deino

IMO there is no such missile ! It looks identical to all ALCMs we've seen so far and the official PLAAF-designation is even written on them: K/AKD-20 (GX) !

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## Akasa

A new rumor suggests that the J-11D is about to be unveiled; perhaps @cirr can shed some more details on such a turn of events.

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## Deino

KJ-500 operational ....

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## cirr

Will this “thing” become a reality in，say，3 years？

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## Beast

cirr said:


> Will this “thing” become a reality in，say，3 years？


Stealth with missile hanging outside? Failed. But I am sure it has an internal bay to handle 4 of these missiles. Will this CG be creditable? J-20 rumour in the past was also slowly reveal in this way with CG coming out first.

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## aliaselin

FADEC on WS-10B works well

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## IrbiS

Any news on the Cy-35 deal?


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## 帅的一匹

aliaselin said:


> FADEC on WS-10B works well


details?


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## j20blackdragon

H-6M

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## IrbiS




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## bobsm

IrbiS said:


> View attachment 194571



In case you haven't figure it out: 

400 US military drones have crashed over the last decade | Daily Mail Online

As you can see, crashes from drones happen quite often, even from the best of them.

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## IrbiS

bobsm said:


> In case you haven't figure it out:
> 
> 400 US military drones have crashed over the last decade | Daily Mail Online
> 
> As you can see, crashes from drones happen quite often, even from the best of them.


And where did you read me saying that or anything regarding your assumptions? The news is that Nigeria is operating armed drones


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## Akasa

@hk299792458 @cirr 

Any news on the J-11D rumored to be a stealthy aircraft?


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## bobsm

IrbiS said:


> And where did you read me saying that or anything regarding your assumptions? The news is that Nigeria is operating armed drones



That is just it. You didn't comment. You left forumers like me guessing your purpose in bring up this article.

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## TaiShang

bobsm said:


> In case you haven't figure it out:
> 
> 400 US military drones have crashed over the last decade | Daily Mail Online
> 
> As you can see, crashes from drones happen quite often, even from the best of them.



Thank you for clarifying the issue. Otherwise, some less-gifted minds would start jumping up and down.

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## kuge

TaiShang said:


> Thank you for clarifying the issue. Otherwise, some less-gifted minds would start jumping up and down.


so just b'cos the most advance country has many crashes china also must follow the steps?


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## bobsm

kuge said:


> so just b'cos the most advance country has many crashes china also must follow the steps?



No, it shows that failure is a normal, or even a prerequisite , step on the road to success.

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## 帅的一匹

PLAAF Ace pilot
新闻视频_最新新闻事件报道_最新新闻视频在线观看_新浪视频

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## 55100864

Rare footage of PLAAF dog fight during the 'Golden Helmet' competition, seems that our polite really like 'Barrel Role'
央视曝光去年9月空军金头盔竞赛自由对抗格斗画面 绝对大片范儿

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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


>




Sadly I can't see these images  Only a white X in a small black box !

... any idea what they show or even better maybe You could upload then here instead of hot-linking them .

Deino


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## Martian2

Deino said:


> Sadly I can't see these images  Only a white X in a small black box !
> 
> ... any idea what they show or even better maybe You could upload then here instead of hot-linking them .
> 
> Deino



Here, I'll do it for you. It took me 8 clicks and 30 seconds total.

By the way, Popular Science has a new article on the FC-1/JF-17.
Link: China's Military Reboots 'Fierce Dragon' Jet Fighter With Homebuilt Model | Popular Science

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## Bilal.

Deino said:


> Sadly I can't see these images  Only a white X in a small black box !
> 
> ... any idea what they show or even better maybe You could upload then here instead of hot-linking them .
> 
> Deino



JL-9 (with DSI) assembly line.

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## Deino

Martian2 said:


> Here, I'll do it for you. It took me 8 clicks and 30 seconds total.




Thanks ... to admit I have some regular problems with these sites: sometimes I need to reload them several times, or only get a broken link !

Anyway thanks again,
Deino

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## Shotgunner51

@Deino 

Question: What is the main difference between KJ-500 and KJ-200? Which one is better? Which one is most costly to build/operate?

I am not sure whether this is the right thread to ask, if not please tag me elsewhere, thanks!

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## cirr

What might this be？

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## Deino

cirr said:


> What might this be？




IMO simply the JZY-01 naval AEW/C-demonstrator !

Chinese Military Aviation: Gallery I

Deino

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## Beast

Deino said:


> IMO simply the JZY-01 naval AEW/C-demonstrator !
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Gallery I
> 
> Deino


I don't think is demonstrator but might be a real pt ready to test in CV-16 liaoning.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> I don't think is demonstrator but might be a real pt ready to test in CV-16 liaoning.




Why ??ß The demonstrator as far as I know lacks a hook for exaple to land on the carrier and here I can't see anything that leds to the assumption that it is a different aircraft !

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## cirr

Deino said:


> IMO simply the JZY-01 naval AEW/C-demonstrator !
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Gallery I
> 
> Deino



I am not saying anything。

Not ruling in anything，not ruling out anything either。

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## Deino

Me too, but IMO to assume it is already carrier-capable is a bit far fetched ... esp. without a hook !

Otherwise I agree with You.

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## cnleio

cirr said:


> What might this be？


The China version "E-2 AEW/C" prototype based on a Y-7 plane ... many years ago pic out. If not mistake, this prototype had test for 3x years.

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## 菜鸟耶夫斯基



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## Deino

This unit - actually the 54. AR / 18. AD - already uses this specially painted birds since late 2012 !


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## cirr

*China Applied 3D Printing Tech in Aerospace Engine Parts*

BEIJING, Mar 03, 2015 (SinoCast Daily Business Beat via COMTEX)

Beijing Power Machinery Research Institute on March 2 announced the successful application of the 3D printing technology of metallic materials for pilot production of some key parts for aerospace engines.

The person in charge of the institute said "although there is still a long way to go for really achieving printing entire engines, China's aerospace engine manufacturing has thus entered into a "fast track" for 3D printing.

Compared with traditional processing of metal materials with lathes or digital machine tools, the 3D printing technology has many advantages, such as no-mold free forming, fast processing rate, low production cost for small-volume parts, and strong ability to processing complex- and special-shaped structures.

The pilot production of some complex, key and important parts for engines with the 3D printing technology for metallic materials marks China has "stood on the same starting line" as international counterparts.

Source: 中国新闻网—梳理天下新闻 (March 03, 2015)

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## cirr

Screen shots of AVIC promotional video

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## Beast

Is this some kind of preview of their products going to unveil/operational in 2015?


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## Deino

Beast said:


> Is this some kind of preview of their products going to unveil/operational in 2015?




Surely not in 2015 ! Neither the Y-20 nor the J-31 will reach that target ...


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## Akasa

cirr said:


>



Shouldn't the improved prototype be shown here (when will it might be unveiled) rather than the initial one?


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## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> Shouldn't the improved prototype be shown here (when will it might be unveiled) rather than the initial one?



中航工业震撼宣传片 尖端飞机云集歼-31齐飞|中航工业|宣传片|歼31战机_新浪视频 

Hello Y-30（CG）

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> 中航工业震撼宣传片 尖端飞机云集歼-31齐飞|中航工业|宣传片|歼31战机_新浪视频
> 
> Hello Y-30（CG）
> 
> View attachment 201254



When will the improved variant unveil?

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## 菜鸟耶夫斯基

Wish them good luck and success.

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## j20blackdragon

H-6K

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## IrbiS

*Wow, China Has a Lot of Different Early-Warning Planes*


*And Beijing just introduced another one*



by THOMAS NEWDICK

New photos recently emerged of China’s KJ-500 airborne early-warning and control plane. It’s Beijing’s fifth _unique_ fixed-wing AEW&C aircraft. Which is kind of a big deal.

While hardly glamorous, these all-seeing planes are incredibly important to any modern air force. They transmit instructions and data — such as the presence of enemy fighters — with their powerful radars and sensors. If an air-to-air battle was an office, AEW&C planes would be the managers.

An air force with one of these planes in the air can see far more — and at much longer ranges — than an enemy without one.

But by any measure, five _different_ types of AEW&Cs is a lot.

The KJ-500’s introduction also raises the question — just how many various kinds of airborne surveillance aircraft does an air force need?





The U.S. Air Force has a single aircraft of this type in service. Boeing’s E-3 Sentry has been operational since 1976, and remains the global standard for AEW&C planes. The U.S. Navy has the carrier-launched E-2 Hawkeye.

However, Beijing’s five different spies in the sky are not a symbol of one-upmanship. China may be increasing its year-by-year defense spending, but a bigger reason why it needs yet _another_ AEW&C aircraft is because they’re really hard to build.

While military commanders and air power advocates often stress the vital importance of AEW&C to any modern-day air campaign, the process of refining the required hardware is beyond all but the most technologically advanced nations.

Russia has long struggled to field a truly effective airborne early-warning plane. India has been trying for years — without a tangible result.

If you have the money, and want the capability, the options are to buy from Israel or Sweden — two established, and innovative, players in the field of military electronics. Or, if you are politically acceptable in Washington’s eyes, you can choose the American option.

And if you’re China, you can constantly test new versions you _mostly_ build yourself.






Above — China’s biggest AEW&C aircraft to date, only a handful of KJ-2000s have entered service with the Chinese air force’s 26th Division. At top — China’s latest AEW&C plane, the KJ-500, in February 2015. All photos via Chinese Internet
*Beginnings*
To be sure, Beijing has tried some of the other options. China first attempted to join the elite AEW&C club back in the mid-1960s. But until recently, its efforts were repeatedly frustrated.

In the early 1970s, Beijing outfitted a Soviet-supplied Tu-4 bomber as its first-generation AEW&C aircraft. But the modified warplane’s KJ-1 radar was a failure. It’s not even certain that the radar ever flew aboard the adapted Tu-4, which ended its days as a museum piece in the Chinese capital.

During the 1990s, the People’s Liberation Army looked toward Israel as a supplier of a working AEW&C system. The Israeli option looked good on paper — Israeli AEW&C systems are currently in use with the Chilean, Indian, Singaporean and Israeli air forces.

Even better, China wouldn’t even need to design a new airplane. In the airborne early-warning world, it’s the mission avionics — the centerpiece of which is a long-range airborne radar — which are at the heart of the system.
While the platform that _carries_ this equipment isn’t exactly an afterthought, a number of different airliners and military transports — as long as they have the requisite load-carrying ability and internal dimensions — should fit the job.

China opted for the Soviet-era Il-76 airlifter as its platform for the planned Israeli electronics. It was an obvious choice in many ways, as the Il-76 was already a proven basis for AEW&C aircraft.

In the meantime, however, Washington stepped in and put a stop to the Sino-Israeli cooperation. An Il-76 airframe already delivered to Russia for the upgrade work had its Israeli-installed equipment stripped out.






China went back to the drawing board, and assigned top priority to the development of an AEW&C aircraft based on the Il-76.

But this new plane would incorporate indigenously-produced radar and mission avionics. The result was the KJ-2000, an aircraft based around the Type 88 early-warning radar.

Carried in a dish mounted atop the fuselage of the jet, the Type 88 doesn’t rotate like the familiar rotodome on the U.S. E-3. Instead, it carries three active electronically scanned antennas that provide 360-degree radar coverage.

The KJ-2000 may very well be the most capable AEW&C aircraft in the Chinese military. But China only built four of them since its introduction in 2005.
The reason for the KJ-2000’s limited numbers? A lack of airframes. China doesn’t build the Il-76 itself. Instead, Beijing bought most of these planes from Russia and Uzbekistan. But when Moscow put a stop to further Il-76 sales to China, and the KJ-2000 program apparently ground to a halt, too.

Since the embargo, China has acquired additional Il-76s from third-party sources. But to date, none have reemerged as an upgraded KJ-2000.

China is working on a new jet airlifter in the class of the Il-76, the Y-20. But it’s still in the early phases of its flight testing, and any possible AEW&C derivatives remain a long way off.

Another option is modifying no fewer than three different variants of the Y-8 four-turboprop transport, and its much-modernized Y-9 version.

Both of these transports have their roots in the Soviet Antonov An-12, a venerable machine first flown in 1957, and which remains in active service as a freighter in many parts of the world.






The enigmatic Y-8J was the first of Beijing’s AEW&C aircraft to enter service
*Y-8J*
Even then, China has plenty of existing AEW&C aircraft. But the first of these mid-sized planes remains something of an anomaly. It’s also somewhat weird looking.

Indeed, experts are still not exactly sure what role the Y-8J plays. But we’re certain that the PLA’s naval air arm operates it, and that the plane carries a British-supplied radar.

The Y-8J might also provide evidence that China’s naval air arm originally took the AEW&C mission more seriously than its land-based counterpart.

In the mid-1990s, London supplied Beijing with around eight examples of its Racal Skymaster radar, apparently in the belief that China would employ it for operations against illegal maritime traffic. That is to say, for _civilian_purposes.

Wrong. Instead, some of these Skymasters found their way onto navy-operated Y-8 transports, to produce the Y-8J variant.
It’s possible that China tasks these aircraft with traditional AEW&C duties. This could include flying with a fighter controller on board, whose job is to direct interceptors to engage aerial targets that the Y-8J has detected, identified and prioritized.

Another possibility is that Y-8J could direct over-the-horizon anti-shipping strikes, while working in concert with missile-toting helicopters. Either way, the enigmatic Y-8J clearly has a military role.

One of the Y-8J’s downsides is that it carries its primary surveillance radar in a grotesquely enlarged nose radome. This shape necessarily reduces the sector that its radar can scan.






The KJ-200 with its distinct balance beam radar array is in service with the Chinese navy
*KJ-200*
If the Y-8J relies on a bulbous nose, the KH-200 employs a very _different_arrangement. Developed during the second half of the 1990s under a project known as _Gao Xin_, the KJ-200 carries its electronically scanned phased-array antennas on a canoe-shaped fairing above the fuselage.

Known as “balance beam,” Sweden’s Ericsson first employed this same strut-mounted approach on its popular Erieye AEW&C system.

The KJ-200 — also known as the Y-9 — first flew in 2001. Since the balance beam layout doesn’t provide full-sector coverage on its own, the plane has additional antennas on its nose, wingtips, in the tip of the tail and atop the vertical fin.

The program suffered a blow with the loss of its second prototype in a fatal accident in 2006. But the KJ-200 is now in service with both the Chinese air force and naval air force — five and six airplanes in each, respectively.

While the KJ-200 has apparently provided a successful stopgap in the absence of further deliveries of the larger KJ-2000, further Chinese AEW&C developments using the Y-8 and Y-9 airframe has nonetheless continued.






The Chinese-made ZDK-03 is in service with the Pakistani air force
*ZDK-03 and KJ-500*
Here’s some of the newer ones. In the past few years, China produced_another_ Y-8 variant with a rotodome, rather than a balance beam.

This design initially seems to have lost out against the rival KJ-200, so the rotodomed Y-8 continued to serve as a test vehicle with its Shaanxi-based manufacturer.

With China apparently uninterested in the aircraft, efforts switched to the export market. Beijing successfully sold the plane to Pakistan, where it’s known as the so-called ZDK-03 export variant.
Late last month, the Pakistani air force officially introduced the ZDK-03 to service, and renamed it the Karakorum Eagle.

The aircraft is now operating from Masroor, near Karachi. Intriguingly, Pakistani sources report that the range of aircraft’s Chinese-made radar exceeds that of Pakistan’s Swedish-supplied Erieye equipment, which it installed on Saab 2000 twin-turboprop plane.

Buy ‘Modern Chinese Warplanes: Combat Aircraft and Units of the Chinese Air Force and Naval Aviation.’
Then there’s the KJ-500 spotted in recent photographs.

There’s a few interesting things about it. For one, the original rotodome Y-8 had a _rotating _radome containing two antennas. This new plane has a fixed radome with three antennas — similar to its bigger brother, the KJ-2000.

Before the end of 2013, China had built at least two prototypes, and began testing them in Xi’an. In contrast to previous warplanes of the type, China based this new aircraft on the stretched — and much-improved — Y-9 airframe.

It remains to be seen what direction China’s airborne-control odyssey will go next. Beijing might have to give up the KJ-2000 if it can’t find any more airframes. The new KJ-500 could also supplant the earlier KJ-200 and its ungainly balance beam.

To top it off, two helicopter-based systems are now operational with the Chinese navy, which is developing its own fixed-wing, carrier-based model.

The one thing that looks certain is that Beijing hasn’t settled on a definitive solution to its airborne early-warning needs. With that in mind, it’s quite possible that Beijing’s busy military-industrial complex will yield a lot more AEW&C types in future.


Wow, China Has a Lot of Different Early-Warning Planes — War Is Boring — Medium

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## Superboy

at


What serial number is it?


----------



## Deino

it's 13-003 !


----------



## black-hawk_101

cirr said:


> 中航工业震撼宣传片 尖端飞机云集歼-31齐飞|中航工业|宣传片|歼31战机_新浪视频
> 
> Hello Y-30（CG）
> 
> View attachment 201254



C-130 replacement.


----------



## Deino

Interesting comparison ...

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## cnleio



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## nomi007

chinese only 1
mig-29
world saw this pic




now see this


----------



## Beast

nomi007 said:


> chinese only 1
> mig-29
> world saw this pic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> now see this



PS photo, its romania Mig-29 and PS with the PLAAF ensign. China never interest in Mig-29 and Su-27 long legged and great payload is always China first choice.

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## Deino

nomi007 said:


> ...
> now see this




... is simply a WS-10A-powered J-11B ! Not sure why You think this should be a MiG-29 ??? ... look at the tails, the wingtip-pylons ... !

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## cirr

It is official：two subsidiaries of AVIC developing short-takeoff/vertical landing propulsion system for marine amphibious operations aircraft：

成发与空天研究院签署风扇部件合作协议

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## longlong

cirr said:


> It is official：two subsidiaries of AVIC developing short-takeoff/vertical landing propulsion system for marine amphibious operations aircraft：
> 
> 成发与空天研究院签署风扇部件合作协议


Remind the fellow on the other side of Pacific should to buy F-35/36/37 but A/B/C siblings.


----------



## cirr

longlong said:


> Remind the fellow on the other side of Pacific should to buy F-35/36/37 but A/B/C siblings.



A processing cooperation agreement for the "Short-Vertical Programme" has been signed between AVIC Chengfa Aero Science & Technology Co., Ltd and AVIC Aerospace Engine Research Institute on 20.03.2015


----------



## kuge

what type of single engine? any designation & specs.?


----------



## cirr

kuge said:


> what type of single engine? any designation & specs.?



No idea。

The ”STOVL Project“ has been in the rumor mill for quite a number of years。

The short press release basically says that China has mastered the manufacturing technology for lift fan drive assembly。

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> No idea。
> 
> The ”STOVL Project“ has been in the rumor mill for quite a number of years。
> 
> The short press release basically says that China has mastered the manufacturing technology for lift fan drive assembly。



What is the time frame expected of the first flight?


----------



## terranMarine

VTOL tech? finally

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## IrbiS

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/580458030531219457


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## 菜鸟耶夫斯基

The first time that J-10s fly in formation with another type of canard fighters.
.

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## cirr

China's stealth bomber（nicknamed The Big Bat）is currently in an advanced stage of development。

2015 will turn out to be a critical year for the Programme。

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## Beast

cirr said:


> China's stealth bomber（nicknamed The Big Bat）is currently in an advanced stage of development。
> 
> 2015 will turn out to be a critical year for the Programme。


Rumour is a supersonic stealth shape strategic bomber.

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## cirr

Beast said:


> Rumour is a supersonic stealth shape strategic bomber.



1st prototype in 2016？


----------



## Deino

For all interested ...



> *DRAGON FIGHTERS*
> Although certain elements of its fighter force remain dated in comparison to other modern air arms, China has introduced an impressive number of new types, with the next generation already under test. Andreas Rupprecht reviews the Chinese fighter force.



Combat Aircraft Monthly: The World's Favourite Military Aviation Magazine

Deino

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## IrbiS

Deino said:


> For all interested ...
> 
> 
> 
> Combat Aircraft Monthly: The World's Favourite Military Aviation Magazine
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 210844


*Look what I Got

Combat Aircraft Monthly - May 2015*
Novafile

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## Akasa

A computer-generated image showing how the previously-revealed striker model would look as an actual aircraft (it is unknown if the aircraft is in development at this moment) in service.

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## Ultima Thule

SinoSoldier said:


> View attachment 212545
> View attachment 212546
> View attachment 212547
> View attachment 212548
> 
> 
> A computer-generated image showing what the previously-revealed striker model would look as an actual aircraft (it is unknown if the aircraft is in development at this moment) in service.


its like regional strike bomber like F-111, F-15, TU-22 M or SU-34 with stealth, there is another bomber project that fullfill their stratejical need called H-20 Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II


----------



## cnleio

SinoSoldier said:


> View attachment 212545
> View attachment 212546
> View attachment 212547
> View attachment 212548
> 
> 
> A computer-generated image showing how the previously-revealed striker model would look as an actual aircraft (it is unknown if the aircraft is in development at this moment) in service.


This looks like a stealth Tu-22M bomber


----------



## Major Shaitan Singh




----------



## Beast

cnleio said:


> This looks like a stealth Tu-22M bomber


Are you sure? It looks totally different but I doubt the practical of this design.

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## Ultima Thule

Beast said:


> Are you sure? It looks totally different but I doubt the practical of this design.


He is not talking about its look, he means about range. He means it like regional bomber like Tu-22M3 not a strategical or intercontinental bomber like Tu-160


----------



## nomi007

why still plaaf have no advance basic trainer aircraft?
like 

KAI KT-1


----------



## Beast

nomi007 said:


> why still plaaf have no advance basic trainer aircraft?
> like
> 
> KAI KT-1


Basic advance trainer is not very urgent. Advance fighter trainer is more important. L-15 and JL-9.

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## Akasa

nomi007 said:


> why still plaaf have no advance basic trainer aircraft?
> like
> 
> KAI KT-1



In fact, they do: the CJ-6/A and CJ-7 are two examples..


----------



## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> In fact, they do: the CJ-6/A and CJ-7 are two examples..


They are quite obselete by today standard. But basic trainer is not very critical.


----------



## j20blackdragon



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## Deino

Anyone noticed the wingtip pylons on the J-11 on the left ??






It's no longer the typical J-11B wingtip pylon for the PL-8 but the old and new Su-27SK and J-16 pylon for the R-73 and also the latest PL-10 ... so what J-11 is this ???

Deino


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## cirr

J-11D tech demonstrator/prototype（top right）based on the J-11B platform






Note that this is a very old picture。Also note that J-11D has had structural upgrade

*J-11D successfully completed its maiden flight this morning 29.04.2015

Congratulations！！！*

Powered by a pair of 14-ton WS-10Gs，the J-11D is basically a Su-35 less thrust vertoring but with more advanced avionics、AESA ect。

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> J-11D tech demonstrator/prototype（top right）based on the J-11B platform
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Note that this is a very old picture。Also note that J-11D has had structural upgrade
> 
> *J-11D successfully completed its maiden flight this morning 29.04.2015
> 
> Congratulations！！！*
> 
> Powered by a pair of 14-ton WS-10Gs，the J-11D is basically a Su-35 less thrust vertoring but with more advanced avionics、AESA ect。



When will the J-15B prototype run its test?


----------



## Deino

Here it is ....






EDIT ... it is only a PS-Fake based on the J-16 '1612' !






However I would not complain if the real J-11D would look like that. 
Deino


----------



## Akasa

Guess who showed up to the bachelor party:

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## Deino

Anothere one ...


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Anothere one ...
> 
> View attachment 217651


 Fitted with WS-10G with 140KN thrust. So are PLAAF not going to fit this domestic engine on J-20?

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## Techy

*PLAAF Su-30MKK flying through mountains*

PLAAF Su-30MKKs carried out a mock attack by flying through mountainous regions in the north eastern part of China on Apr. 25.









*Photos: PLAAF*

Nice Images

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## Deino

Via "hongjian" (CDF) ... PL-15 potted under J-11B

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## cirr

PL-10、PL-15、PL-21、PL-XX and PL-YY。

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## Beast

cirr said:


> PL-10、PL-15、PL-21、PL-XX and PL-YY。


PL-15 shall be more for J-20 internal bay due to the small control fin. It shall be expect the same performance like PL-12.


----------



## rcrmj

Beast said:


> Fitted with WS-10G with 140KN thrust. So are PLAAF not going to fit this domestic engine on J-20?


140Kn WS is still under test```they are not the 140KN ones


----------



## aliaselin

Beast said:


> PL-15 shall be more for J-20 internal bay due to the small control fin. It shall be expect the same performance like PL-12.


PL-15 use double pulse rocket engine, so it should be better than PL-12

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## aliaselin

Y-16 model. This project has been dropped as Y-10







> 2015年4月28日，多家媒体在网络上以《俄中将签联合制造直
> 升机协议 8股火》为标题，报道俄罗斯和中国已就联合生产直升机
> 项目的“最后问题”达成共识，并计划于5月签署最终协议。推荐8
> 股中提及我公司。
> 二、澄清声明
> 经核实，中俄双方确实就直升机领域相关项目进行前期论证及合
> 作框架的协商，但项目的合作方式及合作内容尚未最终确定，截至目
> 前我公司未参与该项目的相关工作。
> 本公司目前无任何应披露而未披露的信息。



Officials said Sino-Russian helicopter cooperation was still on framework agreement stage.


----------



## nomi007

dragon eye

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## nomi007




----------



## Beast

nomi007 said:


>


Is it a hint what we will see at end of 2015? I think Y-20 is going to commission into service by end of these year or early 2016.

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## cirr

The first batch of J-16s commissioned 











Engines，engines！

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## nomi007

*Z-X



*

It was rumored that a *large transport helicopter* is under development at 602 involving some degree of Russian assistance. This design appears similar to Russian Mi-26 but somewhat smaller.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> The first batch of J-16s commissioned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Engines，engines！




Any more info an this one ?? ... indeed it does not look like a prototype, really more like a serial one !
Any info on what unit or at least where ?

Deino


----------



## cirr

Deino said:


> Any more info an this one ?? ... indeed it does not look like a prototype, really more like a serial one !
> Any info on what unit or at least where ?
> 
> Deino



K3S。

Now that SAC has called a halt to the production of the J-11B/BS，it can allocate all resources to building the J-15 and J-16 while putting J-11D through test-flights。

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## Deino

cirr said:


> K3S。
> 
> Now that SAC has called a halt to the production of the J-11B/BS，it can allocate all resources to building the J-15 and J-16 while putting J-11D through test-flights。




Interesting !
Do You also know the regiment ?? ... would be interesting if they replaced the Su-30MKK (9. AR) or the J-7E (7. AR).

Deino


----------



## Economic superpower

cirr said:


> The first batch of J-16s commissioned
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Engines，engines！



Great news for China.
Very bad news for enemies.

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## black-hawk_101

nomi007 said:


> *Z-X
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> It was rumored that a *large transport helicopter* is under development at 602 involving some degree of Russian assistance. This design appears similar to Russian Mi-26 but somewhat smaller.



This should be manufactured under license at numbers like 200-300 in 10 years time for PAA, PN and PAF.



j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 214148
> 
> View attachment 214149



Should China provide Pakistan with these for FREE. As it will help Pakistan to fight terrorist better.


----------



## j20blackdragon

The latest image (May 2015) suggested that the initial batch of J-16 has entered the service with PLAAF.

Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft I

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Interesting !
> Do You also know the regiment ?? ... would be interesting if they replaced the Su-30MKK (9. AR) or the J-7E (7. AR).
> 
> Deino




Maybe my question was lost ... any info on this ?

Deino


----------



## nomi007




----------



## Deino

cirr said:


> K3S。
> 
> ...




Again me ! Could it be that You mixed 3S (= 3. Division) with 3T (= 3. Regiment) ??? ... since this is what I read in other places assigned to the 1. Division, 3. Air Regiment replacing J-8F at Anshan !

Deino


----------



## SOHEIL




----------



## 帅的一匹

What if PLAAF has more than 100 units of J16, no one can mess with us in SCS. We are the dominator, time to kick Yankees out of SCS.

Time to take our glory in the past back. Field as many J16 as possible, prepare for war with USA and Japan.

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## cirr



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## DANGER-ZONE

SOHEIL said:


>



Lockheed Martin had been testing similar plane before JSF Project in past .... It was named X-32 (not the Boieng one)


----------



## SOHEIL

DANGER-ZONE said:


> Lockheed Martin had been testing similar plane before JSF Project in past .... It was named X-32 (not the Boieng one)



JAST !


----------



## nomi007

kj-1 1st flight


----------



## IrbiS



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## Yukihime

IrbiS said:


> View attachment 225609



Again, same shit performance of western 'Copy&Paste' criticize, featured with characteristic Wrong Photo that doesn't match what he was shitting in the article... (of course i know he doesn't understand what he was talking about)

So, bro, give your pitiful feeling to that poor guy...


----------



## Akasa

IrbiS said:


> View attachment 225609



That's not the J-11D, but rather the testbed that was used to test its AESA radar.


----------



## IrbiS

Yukihime said:


> Again, same shit performance of western 'Copy&Paste' criticize, featured with characteristic Wrong Photo that doesn't match what he was shitting in the article... (of course i know he doesn't understand what he was talking about)
> 
> So, bro, give your pitiful feeling to that poor guy...





SinoSoldier said:


> That's not the J-11D, but rather the testbed that was used to test its AESA radar.




I'm not advocating him but this testbed with all current modifications will be baseline for J-11D, maybe that's why he called it a prototype


----------



## Deino

Yukihime said:


> Again, same shit performance of western 'Copy&Paste' criticize, featured with characteristic Wrong Photo that doesn't match what he was shitting in the article... (of course i know he doesn't understand what he was talking about)
> So, bro, give your pitiful feeling to that poor guy...



First of all You are all correct, that's not the J-11D ... and I admit I'm a bit angry since I especially cleaned that image for this short news report.







I'm even more surprised since I only sent the two true J-11D images to the publisher and not this J-11B-testbed. As such indeed a failure... ... and Your anger is understandable !

However @Yukihime why this bitterness and hate ?? Please explain what's wrong information-wise on that report or what is again a "Shit performance copy & paste" !?? ... or where do You see a fault that shows what I did not understand ... ??

Even more do You fully understand and know the circumstances around the J-11D ?? .. then please explain, otherwise be a bit more careful with such harsh words.

Deino

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## Deino

PS: for all interested I just posted a note at the CA's face-book page !

Combat Aircraft Magazine | Facebook



> Just a minor correction to the J-11D's maiden flight ... sadly the image is wrong, since it shows not the true prototype, but the J-11D-testbed, in fact a modified J-11B. Sorry for that ....



Deino

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## IrbiS

Deino said:


> PS: for all interested I just posted a note at the CA's face-book page !
> 
> Combat Aircraft Magazine | Facebook
> 
> 
> 
> Deino
> 
> 
> View attachment 225978



@Deino @cnleio when will production start for J-11D ?


----------



## Akasa

IrbiS said:


> @Deino @cnleio when will production start for J-11D ?



My guess would be ~2016, when the second batch of AESA-equipped J-15s will enter service as well.

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## IrbiS

SinoSoldier said:


> My guess would be ~2016, when the second batch of AESA-equipped J-15s will enter service as well.



Have PLAAF, PLAN placed formal orders for 11D yet? would Love to see a wing of PAF equipped with 'em


----------



## Akasa

IrbiS said:


> Have PLAAF, PLAN placed formal orders for 11D yet? would Love to see a wing of PAF equipped with 'em



None of the Flanker derivatives will be for export.


----------



## IrbiS

SinoSoldier said:


> None of the Flanker derivatives will be for export.




Pakistan could lobby the deal with Russia if she intends to buy. Russian like money too


----------



## Akasa

IrbiS said:


> Pakistan could lobby the deal with Russia if she intends to buy. Russian like money too



That could be a possibility, but I doubt the Russians would agree.


----------



## Deino

IrbiS said:


> @Deino @cnleio when will production start for J-11D ?




Thanks for the request, but honestly l don't know. I even think that right now outside the PLAAF & SAC no-one knows that for sure simply since it will depend on the final outcome of the trials.

By my feeling I would assume a timeframe of about two years - similar to the J-16 - is realistically until the avionics systems is certified. So a date between the end of 2016 or more likely mid-2017.

If I were evil I would suggest to ask others - maybe You ask Beast for example - since by his honest knowledge I am only writing BS based as copy & paste from wrong sources and even more coming to false results due to being too much anti-Chinese ! 

Deino

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## cirr

J-10s deployed on China's third largest island，Chongming Island，Shanghai：

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## Deino

cirr said:


> J-10s deployed on China's third largest island，Chongming Island，Shanghai：



Interesting ... are these the new twin-PL-12-launcher-rails ?? So far they are rarely seen on operational birds.

Deino


----------



## siegecrossbow

cirr said:


> J-10s deployed on China's third largest island，Chongming Island，Shanghai：



Previously they only stationed J-8IIs and JH-7As on the island. This should be a huge plus.

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## Deino

siegecrossbow said:


> Previously they only stationed J-8IIs and JH-7As on the island. This should be a huge plus.



Hmm ... to admit I'm a bit confused now or better to say I maybe did not read correctly: is it only a) a temporarily assignment or a detachment based there for an exercise or b) a newly converted unit ??

if a), then I'm not too much surprised but I would like to know from what unit they come from ?

if b), then it would mean that the 78. Brigade's J-8H were replaced by these J-10As ... but since they are A-models, where do they come from ??

Deino


----------



## nomi007

Background Two wreckage, big guy, ah, the Vietnam War booty -CH47


----------



## cirr

Pic appeared in a CCTV programme about China's wind tunnels：






Stealth strategic bomber under development？

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## 55100864

cirr said:


> Pic appeared in a CCTV programme about China's wind tunnels：
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stealth strategic bomber under development？


looks like a wave rider

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## terranMarine

If only we have some sample of Chinese B2 simulation image


----------



## Deino



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## HRK

Deino said:


> View attachment 230171



which missile is it carrying ..... ???


----------



## Deino

HRK said:


> which missile is it carrying ..... ???



This is the KD-20 - or officially K/AKD-20(GX) - ALCM.

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## cirr

New J-10B/C

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## cirr

It is very likely，indeed highly probable，that plasma shield technology has been used on the J-16 to disperse radar waves，thereby increasing the stealthiness of the fighter jet：

凤凰火线军情_军事_凤凰网

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> It is very likely，indeed highly probable，that plasma shield technology has been used on the J-16 to disperse radar waves，thereby increasing the stealthiness of the fighter jet：
> 
> 凤凰火线军情_军事_凤凰网



How would the plasma gas be localized around the J-16?


----------



## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> How would the plasma gas be localized around the J-16?



How am I supposed to know？

People in the know won't disclose how effective it is either。


----------



## Akasa

cirr said:


> How am I supposed to know？
> 
> People in the know won't disclose how effective it is either。



Ok; anyways, would you able to give the link to the CD post regarding the J-31's new date?


----------



## Deino

Y-20 spotted at the Lijiang airport / Yunnan.

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Y-20 spotted at the Lijiang airport / Yunnan.
> 
> View attachment 230365




Another one ...

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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## cirr

A and B

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## Deino

cirr said:


> A and B


 

Nice ... do we know by know for sure what units are the first to use the B-model ???

Deino


----------



## airmarshal

How does Y-20 compare with modern operational transport aircraft like C-130, C-17 and A-400?


----------



## Foxtrot-Bravo

mil-avia said:


> Chinese air force dropping armored ground vehicles :



Seems an IL-78? If I am correct.


----------



## nomi007



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## IrbiS



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## cirr

Cutting-edge world-beating 5th generation radar（holographic sensing radar）under development

http://www.cetc.com.cn/WebSite/cetc/Upload/File/201506/20150601085652359375.pdf

by the same guy and his team who developed China's MIMO radar.

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## nomi007

Ammar Zeb Khan Niazi said:


> Seems an IL-78? If I am correct.


no
its il-76

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## Foxtrot-Bravo

nomi007 said:


> no
> its il-76



Same job. Thanks.


----------



## Deino

A much better image oft he CJ-7 prototype during its maiden flight

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## black-hawk_101

Deino said:


> A much better image oft he CJ-7 prototype during its maiden flight
> 
> View attachment 236712


Will PAF going to buy it?


----------



## Deino

I hope so ... in large numbers !

However I really do not understand why it still uses a piston engine instead of a modern turboprop !?


----------



## 大汉奸柳传志

Deino said:


> I hope so ... in large numbers !
> 
> However I really do not understand why it still uses a piston engine instead of a modern turboprop !?


Well I don‘t think it’s entirely designed for military uses. AVIC says it's more of a “sports series” basic trainer. Could it be a marketing strategy to add a low end model to the line up? Some description given by AVIC translated “Featuring low cost，easy to maintain，agile and reliable” “For early stage pilot training and qualifying at aviation schools or clubs” “For civilian air shows or simply having fun at the sky!!” lol

For military basic trainer it‘s the K8. A joint program with Pakistan @black-hawk_101



black-hawk_101 said:


> Will PAF going to buy it?








Also the original pic @Deino posted earlier, with no watermark or enhencement, from AVIC new webpage.






The new AVIC updated its webpage to include new models and it looks quite consumer-friendly. I think they could be opening an online shop in the future..Maybe you will see an "Add to Cart" button under this beast soon! kidding


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## nomi007



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## nomi007

Deino said:


> A much better image oft he CJ-7 prototype during its maiden flight
> 
> View attachment 236712







not so impressive
like kt-1
or
Pilatus PC-9

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## j20blackdragon



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## black-hawk_101

Will China going to sell PN their 120+ Su-27s with possible upgrades from Russia?

As they are building up their own fighter under license named J-11Bs.


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## Akasa

black-hawk_101 said:


> Will China going to sell PN their 120+ Su-27s with possible upgrades from Russia?
> 
> As they are building up their own fighter under license named J-11Bs.



Su-27 derivatives (whether they are Su-27s or J-11Bs) will not be for sale.

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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## 55100864

j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 243399
> View attachment 243400


love those sweet badgers


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## IR-TR

I have a question guys. How big does the Chinese government want the Air Force to become? I mean what are the numbers for each type (let's keep it to fighter jets in order to make it easy to answer). How many j-10 j-31 j-20, j-11 j-16 are planned for the PLAAF? (couple hundred 50s and 60s jets need to be replaced also)
And aside from what's being planned, what are the numbers YOU'd like to see? Thanks.


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## PRC2025

IR-TR said:


> I have a question guys. How big does the Chinese government want the Air Force to become? I mean what are the numbers for each type (let's keep it to fighter jets in order to make it easy to answer). How many j-10 j-31 j-20, j-11 j-16 are planned for the PLAAF? (couple hundred 50s and 60s jets need to be replaced also)
> And aside from what's being planned, what are the numbers YOU'd like to see? Thanks.



No one knows for sure how many J-10, J-11, J-15 & J-16 are "planned". Personally - and that's just my opinion - I think they just "let it float", instead of "plan" then fail miserably as many other air forces do these days. Som air forces plan "something" over the next few years, and after a while, nothing happens. Such as Rafale & Mistral deals, F-35 problems or PAK-FAs & Armata cost issues, etc.

So no point in planning then to be dissapointed at the end. 

Personally, I hope PLAAF does not build too many 4th and 4.5 gen fighters, as I wish them to concentrate all or most of the production on J-20, J-31 and the strategic stealth bomber project. 

So once again, personally I do not wish to see too many J-10, J-11, J-15 & J-16 or even JH-7B or whatever. 

Massive resources should go on J-20, J-31, various large UCAVs and H-8 bomber, and also set up production line so it's ready for serious massproduction when the time comes.

I am hoping for at least 1.000 or maybe even up to 1.200 J-20 and J-31, in addition to a few dozen H-8 bombers. This should be a target from 2019 and completed by 2035 at the latest. It should be possible as the defence budget we most likely hit above 350 billion USD in the 2020s. It is already today, close to 200 billion USD.

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## IR-TR

Good write up. Although I can hardly imagine China (being the master planner in even the smallest things) not planning exactly what their Air Force should look like. I think though, that it's probably top secret, as to not 'scare' the world. I agree about the 5th gen, but any large superpower air force should needs an extra 500-1000 4-4.5th gen aircraft that will remain usable for the next decades. When wars start, suddenly only a small percentage of the inventory can be used (servicability etc). So it's always good as an insurance policy. Heck, the US even keeps thousands of very old fighter jets in the desert.

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## 55100864

PLA gone crazy........

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## nomi007

post chinese IL-78 fresh images


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## j20blackdragon

J-16 has entered service.

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## Deino

j20blackdragon said:


> J-16 has entered service.
> View attachment 247788




Any idea or even reports about what unit operates them or the serial numbers ??


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## j20blackdragon



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## cirr

GX-8





















take a close look at the wingtips。

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## cirr

Nice buttocks。

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## j20blackdragon



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## Beast

A super good video talking abt history of Chinese aviation history, the most important part is the second half of these video. Talking abt Chinese engine development is very challenging. Especially the WS-10 engine. It has possible a massive material or design fault which is so serious it threaten to derail the whole engine project. But the new AVIC Ceo Lin zuo ming refused to give up and finally succeed in ensure full production of redesigned WS-10A engine. From video background can see WS-10A engine being assemble and massive production line making various part of WS-10A. We can also see the team making parts for WS-15 engine as they claim its next generation engine. The video also claim China aviation level has reached new peak and almost matching the most advanced level with western counterpart with CNC highly precision 5 axis machine making 0.001mm super precise parts.

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## nomi007

Beast said:


> A super good video talking abt history of Chinese aviation history, the most important part is the second half of these video. Talking abt Chinese engine development is very challenging. Especially the WS-10 engine. It has possible a massive material or design fault which is so serious it threaten to derail the whole engine project. But the new AVIC Ceo Lin zuo ming refused to give up and finally succeed in ensure full production of redesigned WS-10A engine. From video background can see WS-10A engine being assemble and massive production line making various part of WS-10A. We can also see the team making parts for WS-15 engine as they claim its next generation engine. The video also claim China aviation level has reached new peak and almost matching the most advanced level with western counterpart with CNC highly precision 5 axis machine making 0.001mm super precise parts.


share link


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## nomi007

[原创]太爽了 PLA暴打某大国  - 海军论坛 - 铁血社区

need this video


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## jkroo

nomi007 said:


> [原创]太爽了 PLA暴打某大国
> 
> -
> 海军论坛
> - 铁血社区
> 
> need this video


http://news.qq.com/zt2015/ddzy/
FYI

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## nomi007

jkroo said:


> 3D模拟夺岛战役_腾讯军事_腾讯网
> FYI


thanks bro


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## nadeemkhan110

GX-8 can Fire?


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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon

WS-10

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## BoQ77

I don't know whether J-11/11B could take off with full loaded weapon 8t and full fuel tank?


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## Beast

BoQ77 said:


> I don't know whether J-11/11B could take off with full loaded weapon 8t and full fuel tank?
> View attachment 258646



These data are useless compare to China made flanker series. Becos, China flanker are much lighter compare to Russian made as China uses 3D printing method plus extensive use of composite. Finally, Taihang engine offer higher thrust compare to basic Russian AL-31. 

3-D printers help China jet development take off | Errymath's

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## BoQ77

Beast said:


> These data are useless compare to China made flanker series. Becos, China flanker are much lighter compare to Russian made as China uses 3D printing method plus extensive use of composite. Finally, Taihang engine offer higher thrust compare to basic Russian AL-31.
> 
> 3-D printers help China jet development take off | Errymath's



tell me more on current data of J11B ok? even in your linked article, I can't find anything about 3D print applied in J11B


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## Beast

BoQ77 said:


> tell me more on current data of J11B ok? even in your linked article, I can't find anything about 3D print applied in J11B



How did you miss 3D printing uses on J-15 and J-16? Are you on denying mode?

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## BoQ77

Beast said:


> How did you miss 3D printing uses on J-15 and J-16? Are you on denying mode? Y*ou just giving most vietnamese a bad name. Pretending and turning a blind eye to Chinese advancement just show how shallow you vietnamese inferiority. You are just afraid of Chinese*.



You derailed from the post about J11. That why I want focus on the main. @Deino
J11B is serving as backbone for PLAAF not other two.

For J15, it's another story about what maximum weight of loaded and fuel it could bring when take off. Later.



BoQ77 said:


> I don't know whether J-11/11B could take off with full loaded weapon 8t and full fuel tank?
> View attachment 258646


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## Beast

BoQ77 said:


> You derailed from the post about J11. That why I want focus on the main.
> J11B is serving as backbone for PLAAF not other two



There is no such thing called J-11B as backbone of PLAAF. J-16 and J-11D will form the bulk of PLAAF. PLAAF will slowly switch to AESA radar for its J-xx series. It is well know data on Russian flanker cannot uses comparison to Chinese flanker. J-11B is 700kg lighter, more superior longer lifepspan airframe and uses more more powerful taihang engine.

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## BoQ77

"will" can't defend your airspace today, that's why J11B


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## kungfugymnast

BoQ77 said:


> @Deino
> 
> You derailed from the post about J11. That why I want focus on the main.
> J11B is serving as backbone for PLAAF not other two.
> 
> For J15, it's another story about what maximum weight of loaded and fuel it could bring when take off. Later.



At the moment, j11b are backbone interceptors while j10a are the multirole patrol fighters. 

Existing j11b pulse doppler radars are refitted with new AESA upgrading to j11d in phases while additional new j11d are in production along with j16 twin seat fighter bomber as PLAAF needed more fighters to cover China large borders. J10C too are in production while existing j10a and j10b are gradually upgraded to C variant. 

The j15 production on hold because the carrier launch system is still in research. China Navy is hoping to build catapult launch system if possible. The ski jump limits fighters payload & range where the j15 could only provide limited air cover, anti-ship and intercept role within 300nm away from carrier. If china could not obtain the tech from France or steal from Americans, only then they'll decide to stick to varyag ski ram carrier.

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## nomi007

中国超5倍音速飞机首飞成功 或成世界最快飞机（图）  - 空军论坛 - 铁血社区
share this video


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## BoQ77

nomi007 said:


> 中国超5倍音速飞机首飞成功 或成世界最快飞机（图）
> 
> -
> 空军论坛
> - 铁血社区
> share this video



The first picture is SR-71, others seem to be 3D Max work or something including design of SR-72
So what you want to tell with those ?


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## j20blackdragon



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## nomi007

BoQ77 said:


> The first picture is SR-71, others seem to be 3D Max work or something including design of SR-72
> So what you want to tell with those ?


upload video if u have


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## cirr

Looks though the H-6K can actually carry 7 rather than 6 CJ LACMs。

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## Beast

cirr said:


> Looks though the H-6K can actually carry 7 rather than 6 CJ LACMs。


I am not very convinced. The photo maybe PS. I still believed the internal bomb bay exist and its more flexible to have multi configuration of drop tank inside bomb bay or cruise missile.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> I am not very convinced. The photo maybe PS. I still believed the internal bomb bay exist and its more flexible to have multi configuration of drop tank inside bomb bay or cruise missile.




Indeed ... If You look closely, then the left wings are indeed a bit pointed upwards - so downwards on the right wing - but IMO not that far down that the KD-20 can be seen like it is here ! 

Deino


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## Deino

Anyone with an idea, what happened to this H-6H ?


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## Deino

Following Huitong's site it is a test for a RAM-coating/-painting !


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## j20blackdragon



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## BoQ77

j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 260557


what could be newer bombers of PLAAF?


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## cirr

Satellite imagery of CAC






1 J-20
1 Dragon-X hypersonic vehicle
2 Wing Loong UAVs
18 J-10B/Cs

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## BoQ77

Wow, secret weapons revealed public.
What is Dragon-X ?



cirr said:


> Satellite imagery of CAC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 J-20
> 1 Dragon-X hypersonic vehicle
> 2 Wing Loong UAVs
> 18 J-10B/Cs


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## kungfugymnast

BoQ77 said:


> Wow, secret weapons revealed public.
> What is Dragon-X ?



Dragon X is ramjet powered chinese hypersonic drone equivalent american x43/47. 

Who is this deino posting warnings at several threads? Few times i saw him locking threads when discussion about to get interesting. I don't see any off topics when it's related to topic such as the j31 topic when we talked about f35.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Dragon X is ramjet powered chinese hypersonic drone equivalent american x43/47.
> 
> Who is this deino posting warnings at several threads? Few times i saw him locking threads when discussion about to get interesting. I don't see any off topics when it's related to topic such as the j31 topic when we talked about f35.




*Who am I ??? ... then just take a look and as such I would kindly ask You simply to follow these instructions.*

*The reason is simply that during the last few days several discussions here went completely off: Discussion on what kind of weapon Vietnam produces (in a helicopter-aerial combat tread), the same with several posts again and again bringing the F-35 into content (in the same tread), what does the KC-30 and its ability to refuel the F-35 has to do for the J-31 ?? ... and so on.*

*Please keep at least a bit of order where You post, what You post and even more if there's already an existing tread for the issue You want to post !*
*
Deino*


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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> *Who am I ??? ... then just take a look and as such I would kindly ask You simply to follow these instructions.*
> 
> *The reason is simply that during the last few days several discussions here went completely off: Discussion on what kind of weapon Vietnam produces (in a helicopter-aerial combat tread), the same with several posts again and again bringing the F-35 into content (in the same tread), what does the KC-30 and its ability to refuel the F-35 has to do for the J-31 ?? ... and so on.*
> 
> *Please keep at least a bit of order where You post, what You post and even more if there's already an existing tread for the issue You want to post !*
> *
> Deino*



J31 is China's hope of building comparable or better (at certain aspects) equivalent to F35. There's nothing wrong brainstorming capabilities of f35 and how j31 could improve to counter the threat of f35. It's called know your foe to defeat your foe. Fighting without information is suicidal going into war blindly.


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## kuge

kungfugymnast said:


> J31 is China's hope of building comparable or better (at certain aspects) equivalent to F35. There's nothing wrong brainstorming capabilities of f35 and how j31 could improve to counter the threat of f35. It's called know your foe to defeat your foe. Fighting without information is suicidal going into war blindly.


u seem to have a little point but mr deino has a bigger one...hehehe....


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## Deino

I would mind if it would look like this ...

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## kuge

Deino said:


> I would mind if it would look like this ...
> 
> View attachment 261565


why not build a gravity-defied disc?

i m bored with those wingeds?


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## cirr

Deino said:


> I would mind if it would look like this ...
> 
> View attachment 261565



H-18


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## kungfugymnast

kuge said:


> u seem to have a little point but mr deino has a bigger one...hehehe....



Deino has more photos, latest news update on China military news. 

When comes to debate, he is more narrow minded, doesn't allow brainstorm and comparison. He's more of yes man, and over patriotism allowing only good praises on chinese weapons.


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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> ....
> 
> When comes to debate, he is more narrow minded, doesn't allow brainstorm and comparison. He's more of yes man, and over patriotism allowing only good praises on chinese weapons.




Sorry, but You don't seem to know me quite well !

First of all I'm acting here - besides being an huge enthusiast with the will to LEARN more about the PLA and its equipment - as a moderator. So my duty is to take care of a civilised discussion and to keep the treads a bit sorted.

What You see as "more narrow minded, doesn't allow brainstorm and comparison" is simply to help other keep on track the discussions related to a certain topic. As such please explain me how Vietnam's capabilities to produce certain weapons is related to the combat aerial warfare or who the KC-30's ability to refuel the F-35 is necessary in a J-31 tread !?

Being called a "YES man and over-patriotism" - funny, since I'm a German ! - or " only good praises on chinese weapons" however shows me only how little You know me. Even more You really don't know my background but You for Yourself tries to play a big number ...

As such I no longer ask or beg You to stay on topic; take this simply as a moderator's advice and follow ... or take the consequences regardless of what You think.

Deino


----------



## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Sorry, but You don't seem to know me quite well !
> 
> First of all I'm acting here - besides being an huge enthusiast with the will to LEARN more about the PLA and its equipment - as a moderator. So my duty is to take care of a civilised discussion and to keep the treads a bit sorted.
> 
> What You see as "more narrow minded, doesn't allow brainstorm and comparison" is simply to help other keep on track the discussions related to a certain topic. As such please explain me how Vietnam's capabilities to produce certain weapons is related to the combat aerial warfare or who the KC-30's ability to refuel the F-35 is necessary in a J-31 tread !?
> 
> Being called a "YES man and over-patriotism" - funny, since I'm a German ! - or " only good praises on chinese weapons" however shows me only how little You know me. Even more You really don't know my background but You for Yourself tries to play a big number ...
> 
> As such I no longer ask or beg You to stay on topic; take this simply as a moderator's advice and follow ... or take the consequences regardless of what You think.
> 
> Deino



You could use proxy backdoor server to change nationality. You can even say you're American. Users of other nationality often wanted to debate and sometimes brought in other topics indirectly related to find out how these chinese weapons perform and to compare. Nothing wrong with that especially if they are customers, the more they wanted to know. 

KC30 refuelling effectiveness tell us the need for similar tanker to refuel future j31. 

Vietnam capability in manufacturing own weapons, if they do so, it would take high risk more of a gamble. Better advise them to focus on evonomy and improve buying power of their people and use the military budget to buy proven weapons instead, less worry. They can buy Chinese weapons again after both countries put aside the misunderstand started by bad politicians from the past. Indirectly related to China weapons topic still.

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> You could use proxy backdoor server to change nationality. You can even say you're American. Users of other nationality often wanted to debate and sometimes brought in other topics indirectly related to find out how these chinese weapons perform and to compare. Nothing wrong with that especially if they are customers, the more they wanted to know.
> 
> KC30 refuelling effectiveness tell us the need for similar tanker to refuel future j31.
> 
> Vietnam capability in manufacturing own weapons, if they do so, it would take high risk more of a gamble. Better advise them to focus on evonomy and improve buying power of their people and use the military budget to buy proven weapons instead, less worry. They can buy Chinese weapons again after both countries put aside the misunderstand started by bad politicians from the past. Indirectly related to China weapons topic still.




Ok .. if You do not want to understand ! Take this as a warning.

Either You follow the rules and the advices of the moderators or You are out.

I'm really not in the mood of dumb jokes: I neither want to hide my nationality, nor will I change this forum's policy to at least stick a bit to the topic.

Deino


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## cirr

The following foretells of the arrival of 。。。。。。

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## Deino

When .... oh only when !??


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## kungfugymnast

cirr said:


> The following foretells of the arrival of 。。。。。。



This is more likely just a concept. Yf23 style elevons (replacing & combining tail fins and elevators) requiring computer assist to get them to work. The design of this fighter allow only limited armaments. Air intake above fuselage, few US fighters tested such design but the airflow pressure into air intake been less than conventional below. This design is more practical for UCAV.


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## Deino

Honestly ... do You really think the J-20 or J-31 - even the J-10 - are simply flown by hand and that their design does not "require computer assist to get them to work" ??? Even more this is - albeit a concept only right now - a medium-sized bomber and not a fighter ... as such an intake under the wings to allow high-angle-of attack flights is not required and for stealth such a configuration is also better.

Deino


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## kungfugymnast

Deino said:


> Honestly ... do You really think the J-20 or J-31 - even the J-10 - are simply flown by hand and that their design does not "require computer assist to get them to work" ??? Even more this is - albeit a concept only right now - a medium-sized bomber and not a fighter ... as such an intake under the wings to allow high-angle-of attack flights is not required and for stealth such a configuration is also better.
> 
> Deino



So far only f117 and b2 with air intake above fuselage configuration. F117 placed the air intake as front as possible to ensure adequate air flows through. B2 air intakes was placed as front for same reason. Compared to other aircrafts, the b2 and f117 depending heavily on computer to fly. Without computer, they'll instantly crashed like the b2 that crashed on runway and the f117 that crashed into red indian cemetery. 

The j20, j31, j10 had fly by wire where the hydraulic controls were assisted with electric powered motor for better response. Onboard computers were there to assist the flights while most of them are still mechanical. Only j20's forward canard had more computer assist to ensure the canard angle stays stealthy position. 

That stealth concept model, another comment is the wing area too small, not so ideal for heavy lift.


----------



## Deino

You might be correct, but this CG is based on that famous black model and is simply said to be a concept - maybe the loosing contender - of the so called JH-XX ... as such it is not a pure fan-art or non-sense but surely only time will tell ...


----------



## cirr

kungfugymnast said:


> This is more likely just a concept. Yf23 style elevons (replacing & combining tail fins and elevators) requiring computer assist to get them to work. The design of this fighter allow only limited armaments. Air intake above fuselage, few US fighters tested such design but the airflow pressure into air intake been less than conventional below. This design is more practical for UCAV.



You are certainly entitled to your opinion。

It is nonetheless only an opinion。


----------



## kungfugymnast

cirr said:


> You are certainly entitled to your opinion。
> 
> It is nonetheless only an opinion。



It's not opinion but facts from several engineers that build such fighters design. Without tail fins, rudder capability reduced, without elevator, pitch capability reduced. Unless you have tech to fit directional thrusters to do the job for pitch and rudder.



Deino said:


> You might be correct, but this CG is based on that famous black model and is simply said to be a concept - maybe the loosing contender - of the so called JH-XX ... as such it is not a pure fan-art or non-sense but surely only time will tell ...



The first china stealth dream to build J-XX equivalent to US f22 was from chengdu and Shenyang where it has been materialized with j20 and j31 today.


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## Akasa

cirr said:


> The following foretells of the arrival of 。。。。。。



Is this a real project or simply a pigment of someone's imagination?

If it is indeed an actual project, when can we expect the prototype to be rolled out?


----------



## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> Is this a real project or simply a pigment of someone's imagination?
> 
> If it is indeed an actual project, when can we expect the prototype to be rolled out?



Patience, patience 

In the meantime, a frontal view of the J-10C

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## j20blackdragon

It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a twin-engine medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed.

Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft I


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## BoQ77

j20blackdragon said:


> It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a twin-engine medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed.
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft I



There're too many rumors. I don't think we should put many more of them here.
Appreciate if you all could put a trusted source of news.


----------



## Deino

cirr said:


> Patience, patience
> 
> In the meantime, a frontal view of the J-10C




Are You sure ?? It could also simply be a J-10B ... so why ? Especially since I know that image since some longer time.


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## cirr

Z-11WB maiden flight

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## kungfugymnast

SinoSoldier said:


> Is this a real project or simply a pigment of someone's imagination?
> 
> If it is indeed an actual project, when can we expect the prototype to be rolled out?



This is just concept scale model. During j-xx stealth aircraft program, there were several scale concept models being proposed, only 2 was materialized. This is just another rejected design due to too impractical.

Look at the chinese stealth UCAV in response to US X47 ucav, Chinese engineers too knew the air intake must be placed near frontal edge if it's above fuselage to ensure adequate air flows into combustion.

The probable third jxx is the STOVL j18 to counter f35b. China would focus on building world class amphibious assault carrier if j18 vertical take off and landing system works. If Americans could hire Russian engineers to design STOVL system for f35b, Chinese too can hire the same Russian team to design for the j18. J18 is a larger STOVL fighter with twin engines with 2 side bays as the center is reserved for STOVL system.

Can someone post j18 photos and its stovl concept here pls?


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## j20blackdragon

j20blackdragon said:


> It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a twin-engine medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed.
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft I



It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed. 

Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II

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## kungfugymnast

j20blackdragon said:


> It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed.
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II
> 
> View attachment 262118



China stealth bomber will not adopt this design neither. Expect it to be delta with large wing area for better lift and the air intake will be located near front side edge. Assume it's designation h18, it will be medium size bomber. The 2x powerplants for it should be around the size of tu26 backfire.


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## Beast

China red eagle aerobatic team

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Patience, patience
> 
> In the meantime, a frontal view of the J-10C



What is a possible timeframe for the unveiling of the H-18?


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## Windjammer

PLAAF and PAF personnel at the conclusion of Shaheen-4 exercise in which at least 18 PAF aircraft participated.

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## j20blackdragon

j20blackdragon said:


> It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed.
> 
> Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II
> 
> View attachment 262118



It was rumored that 601/SAC are working on a twin-engine medium supersonic stealth bomber design (H-18?) but this has yet to be confirmed. If entering the service, it would replace the obsolete H-6 medium bomber.

Chinese Military Aviation: Attack Aircraft II

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## kungfugymnast

SinoSoldier said:


> What is a possible timeframe for the unveiling of the H-18?



Priority at the moment is given to navy as the threat is more from the sea over disputed islands. As per latest news, india deployed 4 ships to South China Sea to protect the oil derricks on its way to mine petroleum in Spratlys. It was on the news. 

Also on first priority is the j20, it has the stealth, range and cruising speed to protect China naval fleet. 

As for the H18 medium bomber, probably 4 years timeframe soonest. If they wanted to make it sooner, it could be powered by 4x WS10B or WS15. The US b1b for example is powered by 4x fighter size engines.


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## Deino

Quite interesting most of the time we spoke about a future Chinese bomber, we were discussing the H-20 stealth bomber but now with the latest rumours the H-18 popped up in front.

Anyway the most important point to consider is not only what's the PLAAF's priority (here it's indeed most likely the H-18 due to being a regional bomber) but who has the least technical issues left (stealth, avionics and most of all engines again) ? As such I think that a H-20 with four WS-10 is probably less an issue than a supersonic design with two only quite weak interim engines for a supersonic design until the WS-15 is ready.

In regard to the H-20 from XAC it was thus expected - given the great urgency of the Y-20 program - that it only gained full momentum after the successful flight of latter in late 2012. The latest rumour suggest that individual parts of a prototype are under construction since March 2015 at XAC and given an at best similar development-cycle to the Y-20 (full-scale metal mock-up constructed by 2008, begin of prototype-manufacturing in August 2009 and final assembly until late 2012, maiden flight in early 2013) a roll out can be projected to 2018/19 at best. As such there are exciting times ahead until the next Chinese Dragon will spread its wings.

Deino

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## black-hawk_101

cirr said:


> Patience, patience
> 
> In the meantime, a frontal view of the J-10C



J-10B.



cirr said:


> Satellite imagery of CAC
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1 J-20
> 1 Dragon-X hypersonic vehicle
> 2 Wing Loong UAVs
> 18 J-10B/Cs


18 J-10B not C.



j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 249601


Soon 4 will be in PAF.


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## Deino

black-hawk_101 said:


> J-10B.
> 
> 18 J-10B not C.
> 
> Soon 4 will be in PAF.



Thanks and I agree in all both points 1 & 2.... however the PAF uses not the KJ-500 but the quite similar ZDK-03 which uses a different radar (a rotating system and not the same three fixed AESA arrays) and avionics system (like these ESM-arrays).

Deino

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## black-hawk_101

Deino said:


> Thanks and I agree in all both points 1 & 2.... however the PAF uses not the KJ-500 but the quite similar ZDK-03 which uses a different radar (a rotating system and not the same three fixed AESA arrays) and avionics system (like these ESM-arrays).
> 
> Deino


Thanks for liking it. PLAAF will soon have their J-10B/BS in fleet and work is going on over J-10Cs too. PAF is buying or getting free of cost the new fixed AESA AWE&Cs from China.


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## nomi007

why still plaaf is not using any helmet mout display system


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## Jäger

siegecrossbow said:


> Nope. That was only the Christmas present. New Year gift is going to be J-20's first flight.


im confused is J-20 for PLAAF or export?


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## kungfugymnast

Bundeswehr said:


> im confused is J-20 for PLAAF or export?



At the mean time, j20 not for export. Besides, it'll be too expensive. J31 would fill the export market. Pakistan might get the j20 if india gets t50

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## Beast

The exhaust of WS-10A @Deino I do not see much different from AL-31F engine. It seems to be the black petal WS-10A and not the silvery WS-10A we usually seen. The petal looks shorter compare to AL-31F version. This black petal WS-10A is believed to be used on J-20 prototype powering it currently.

The pilot claimed J-11B is a beast, helping his squadron to attain Golden helmet for continuous 3 years. He also claim J-11B has strong capabilities for anti-ground, anti-sea and anti-air. It can carries variety of weaponery. The pilot also claimed he is extremely proud of his J-11B to be 100% with made in China including the WS-10A engine.

Looks like J-10A is pinned down badly since J-10B not able to attain operational service. J-10 boys need to wait for J-10C to enter service before reclaimed supremacy.

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## Deino

Sorry my friend, but then You have to look more carefully. All WS-10-version regardless the silver all black one have a characteristic inner movable ring, the AL-31 does not have. Also, the number of petals and their form is very different.

Esp. since that second image shows clearly an AL-31F !

Just look ..








Even more I'm sure, the J-10B IS in operational service with the AL-31FN s. 3 - simply since it is surely not worse than a AL_31FN-powered J-10A - ... but if You want to wait for the J-10C it's o.k.

Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Sorry my friend, but then You have to look more carefully. All WS-10-version regardless the silver all black one have a characteristic inner movable ring, the AL-31 does not have. Also, the number of petals and their form is very different.
> 
> Esp. since that second image shows clearly an AL-31F !
> 
> Just look ..
> 
> View attachment 265126
> 
> 
> 
> Even more I'm sure, the J-10B IS in operational service with the AL-31FN s. 3 - simply since it is surely not worse than a AL_31FN-powered J-10A - ... but if You want to wait for the J-10C it's o.k.
> 
> Deino


You do not have first hand knowledge of WS-10A. The video I post proves everything you say is wrong. Shall I trust a PLAAF pilot more or your words who can't even understand a single word of Chinese?

There are many variety of WS-10A. Some even outer exhaust appearance looks like AL-31 but it's not AL-31 engine. Same as the one on J-20. It is using domestic engine all the while.

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## kungfugymnast

Beast said:


> View attachment 265111
> 
> 
> The exhaust of WS-10A @Deino I do not see much different from AL-31F engine. It seems to be the black petal WS-10A and not the silvery WS-10A we usually seen. The petal looks shorter compare to AL-31F version. This black petal WS-10A is believed to be used on J-20 prototype powering it currently.
> 
> The pilot claimed J-11B is a beast, helping his squadron to attain Golden helmet for continuous 3 years. He also claim J-11B has strong capabilities for anti-ground, anti-sea and anti-air. It can carries variety of weaponery. The pilot also claimed he is extremely proud of his J-11B to be 100% with made in China including the WS-10A engine.
> 
> Looks like J-10A is pinned down badly since J-10B not able to attain operational service. J-10 boys need to wait for J-10C to enter service before reclaimed supremacy.



J-10 is meant to fill the light and small fighter category for replacing the old J-7. It is not from same category as J-11. Once WS10B engine is realized, the J10C would be mass produced replacing the obsolete J7 fleet. Because J10 saves more fuel, cheaper to build and less attention required on maintenance, expect to see more J-10C in PLAAF in future.

PLAAF now concentrates more on J11B/D and J16 because China is large country and it needs adequate long range fighter bomber to fulfill the need for primary defenses first. J10C is more for self defense and border patrol therefore it could wait and make way for J-11 fleet.


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## Deino

Beast said:


> You do not have first hand knowledge of WS-10A. The video I post proves everything you say is wrong. Shall I trust a PLAAF pilot more or your words who can't even understand a single word of Chinese?
> 
> There are many variety of WS-10A. Some even outer exhaust appearance looks like AL-31 but it's not AL-31 engine. Same as the one on J-20. It is using domestic engine all the while.




Yes, I don't have, but I can think ! ... You instead trust a video so much regardless if they mix old and new images together in a report that You either don't want or cannot differ between "what a pilot says" (surely correct, but he's a pilot of a WS-10A-powered J-11BS) and additional images (not really correct, since they show an AL-31F-powered J-11B).

The problem simply is - and here it is a proof how less You understand the PLAAF's structure or individual units - that the 1. Fighter Division's 1. Air Regiment uses indeed J-11B (Block 01 powered by AL-31F) together with Su-27UBK but it gained a few additional (IMO 4 so far) J-11BS powered by the WS-10A.

And even worse, there are not so many different WS-10s out there with a few looking like an AL-31 and a few not. It simply makes no sense especially from the technical standpoint since You can't fit a nozzle from one engine simply to another one. Take a look at the Pratt Whitney F100-family. There are also several different, very different versions with lighter and darker pedals, with higher and lower thrust, usable for the F-16 and F-15, but they all have a very similar nozzle.

You are the one that really has no clue about engines especially if a statement does not fit Your opinion ....

Deino

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## Beast

Deino said:


> Yes, I don't have, but I can think ! ... You instead trust a video so much regardless if they mix old and new images together in a report that You either don't want or cannot differ between "what a pilot says" (surely correct, but he's a pilot of a WS-10A-powered J-11BS) and additional images (not really correct, since they show an AL-31F-powered J-11B).
> 
> The problem simply is - and here it is a proof how less You understand the PLAAF's structure or individual units - that the 1. Fighter Division's 1. Air Regiment uses indeed J-11B (Block 01 powered by AL-31F) together with Su-27UBK but it gained a few additional (IMO 4 so far) J-11BS powered by the WS-10A.
> 
> And even worse, there are not so many different WS-10s out there with a few looking like an AL-31 and a few not. It simply makes no sense especially from the technical standpoint since You can't fit a nozzle from one engine simply to another one. Take a look at the Pratt Whitney F100-family. There are also several different, very different versions with lighter and darker pedals, with higher and lower thrust, usable for the F-16 and F-15, but they all have a very similar nozzle.
> 
> You are the one that really has no clue about engines especially if a statement does not fit Your opinion ....
> 
> Deino


ok, I admit the pilot did not mention Taihang name for the claimed domestic engine. Does that mean China are RE AL-31F engine all along? I am sure the pilot will not mix up his own plane using foreign import or domestic made engine. The reporter will also not mix up the photo since she already taken the pilot body with serial number and definitely take the photo of the exhaust. She will definitely use the same set of photo for her report.

When is the last time China import AL-31F engine?


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## Deino

You simply don't get it ?? I'm sure the pilot knows what he does and even more what he's allowed to tell ... but I'm also sure the reported who finished this report does not even has a clue what's a WS-10 or AL-31 and simply used wrong images. They mix images showing that pilot in front of his J-11BS in the outside with images showing a PL-12-armed J-11B in a shelter; they do not even care to add a J-11A armed with a R-77.

And how does it matters when China imported AL-31F the last time ??? They are still operational within sveral units including the 1. DFD as shown by no. '10320' which took part in the September parade together with BS '1032' and both use different engines.

Please such a video is done by a reporter and as such not really 100% correct even if CCTV is statemedia-controlled.

Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> You simply don't get it ?? I'm sure the pilot knows what he does and even more what he's allowed to tell ... but I'm also sure the reported who finished this report does not even has a clue what's a WS-10 or AL-31 and simply used wrong images. They mix images showing that pilot in front of his J-11BS in the outside with images showing a PL-12-armed J-11B in a shelter; they do not even care to add a J-11A armed with a R-77.
> 
> And how does it matters when China imported AL-31F the last time ??? They are still operational within sveral units including the 1. DFD as shown by no. '10320' which took part in the September parade together with BS '1032' and both use different engines.
> 
> Please such a video is done by a reporter and as such not really 100% correct even if CCTV is statemedia-controlled.
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 265201
> 
> 
> View attachment 265202


Ok, I accept the reporter do make a mistake.

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## Deino

Thanks ... and please don't get me wrong !

Me too is more than eagerly awaiting a TH-powered, operational J-10B or C in service and I'm concerned, worried and most of all impatient why progress is/was so much delayed, why we don't hear or see the things we want to know, but if I've learned one thing while watching the PLA-matters all these years, there are often reasons behind we do not understand, decisions we don't have a clue either political or industrial ones; the PLA simply does not work like the Russian AF (who always says a lot and keeps only few) or the US ... and in mind of the collection of aircraft shown at the parade, this is simply such a decision: but only since the many Y-8-EW-types were not shown, including the new ASW type, does that mean they are not operational. If I'm not wrong, the Su-30MKK wasn't on show too ...

All the best,
Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> but only since the many Y-8-EW-types were not shown, including the new ASW type, does that mean they are not operational. If I'm not wrong, the Su-30MKK wasn't on show too ...
> 
> All the best,
> Deino



Su-30MKK is an imported product. Why would they bother to fly in Victory day? If you noticed, No foreign purchase/ imported aircraft or equipment are shown in V-day. J-10B if operational suppose to be the pride of China aviaition advancement with everything made in China except engine. But it did not shown up but instead led by J-10A. Only explanation is it has not even gain initial / small batch operation. PLAAF is not happy with its performance. They want J-10C

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## Deino

O.k. agreed !  ... but like You said they are maybe simply not fully operational due to all delay, due to being now only some sort of stepchild (which I don't think) but they are simply not at FOC but only IOC.

Anyway ... time will tell.


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## nomi007

any 1 share this video
看了“中国这些武器已是世界第一”后，好多汉奸高潮了...  - 陆军论坛 - 铁血社区


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## Akasa

A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:

A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.

*J-16*:
- 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = *28 J-16

J-10*:
- J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
- J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
Total: *304 + 65 = 369 J-10

J-15*:
10 + 5 = *15 J-15*

*J-11B*:
9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft =* 324 J-11B of all variants

J-11A*:
- Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
- J-11/A: 104
Total: *78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27

Su-30*:
- Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
- Su-30MK2: 24
Total:* 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30

JH-7*:
- PLAAF: 120
- PLANAF: 120
Total: *240 JH-7

GRAND TOTAL: 
324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28 
= 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft
*
Note:
- Older generation aircraft were not included
- Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
- Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production

Aircraft currently in production:
- *J-10C*
- *J-16*
- *J-15*

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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:
> 
> A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
> A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.
> 
> *J-16*:
> - 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = *28 J-16
> 
> J-10*:
> - J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
> - J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
> Total: *304 + 65 = 369 J-10
> 
> J-15*:
> 10 + 5 = *15 J-15*
> 
> *J-11B*:
> 9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft =* 324 J-11B of all variants
> 
> J-11A*:
> - Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
> - J-11/A: 104
> Total: *78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27
> 
> Su-30*:
> - Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
> - Su-30MK2: 24
> Total:* 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30
> 
> JH-7*:
> - PLAAF: 120
> - PLANAF: 120
> Total: *240 JH-7
> 
> GRAND TOTAL:
> 324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28
> = 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft
> *
> Note:
> - Older generation aircraft were not included
> - Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
> - Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production
> 
> Aircraft currently in production:
> - *J-10C*
> - *J-16*
> - *J-15*



You forget the J-8II/F. I believe estimate more than 200 of them still in service. They are longer legged than J-7G,more pylon for more weapons. More powerful radar compare to J-7G for BVR. They are no match for J-11B. But with datalink with AWACS, they can still be lethal for interceptor roles. Some are optimized for ground attack roles, capable of carrying JADM.

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## Akasa

Beast said:


> You forget the J-8II/F. I believe estimate more than 200 of them still in service. They are longer legged than J-7G,more pylon for more weapons. More powerful radar compare to J-7G for BVR. They are no match for J-11B. But with datalink with AWACS, they can still be lethal for interceptor roles. Some are optimized for ground attack roles, capable of carrying JADM.



They don't combine BVR capability with WVR capability, and thus they'll have trouble facing modern 4th generation fighters.


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## Daniel808

SinoSoldier said:


> A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:
> 
> A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
> A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.
> 
> *J-16*:
> - 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = *28 J-16
> 
> J-10*:
> - J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
> - J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
> Total: *304 + 65 = 369 J-10
> 
> J-15*:
> 10 + 5 = *15 J-15*
> 
> *J-11B*:
> 9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft =* 324 J-11B of all variants
> 
> J-11A*:
> - Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
> - J-11/A: 104
> Total: *78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27
> 
> Su-30*:
> - Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
> - Su-30MK2: 24
> Total:* 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30
> 
> JH-7*:
> - PLAAF: 120
> - PLANAF: 120
> Total: *240 JH-7
> 
> GRAND TOTAL:
> 324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28
> = 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft
> *
> Note:
> - Older generation aircraft were not included
> - Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
> - Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production
> 
> Aircraft currently in production:
> - *J-10C*
> - *J-16*
> - *J-15*



Thanks for Your Estimate. That's Really Informative. 

By the way, Aircraft Currently in Production, you said J-10C, J-16, and J-15.
How About J-11B?


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## Akasa

Daniel808 said:


> Thanks for Your Estimate. That's Really Informative.
> 
> By the way, Aircraft Currently in Production, you said J-10C, J-16, and J-15.
> How About J-11B?



I don't think the J-11B is in production anymore due to a switch in production to the J-15 and J-16; however, the J-11BS might still be.


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## Daniel808

SinoSoldier said:


> I don't think the J-11B is in production anymore due to a switch in production to the J-15 and J-16; however, the J-11BS might still be.



How about J-11D, An Upgraded Variant of J-11B Featuring AESA Radar?


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## Akasa

Daniel808 said:


> How about J-11D, An Upgraded Variant of J-11B Featuring AESA Radar?



It is still under development.

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## Akasa

J-16 (courtesy of Deino):

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## j20blackdragon

J-16 has 12 hardpoints confirmed.

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## kungfugymnast

j20blackdragon said:


> J-16 has 12 hardpoints confirmed.
> View attachment 272636



J16 tech is based on su30mkk, sure it could hold 12 pylons with strengthened yet lightened structure.


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## Akasa

kungfugymnast said:


> J16 tech is based on su30mkk, sure it could hold 12 pylons with strengthened yet lightened structure.



J-16 is based on the J-11BS, not Su-30MKK.

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## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> J-16 is based on the J-11BS, not Su-30MKK.




IMO not ! If You compare closely, it is a de facto parallel development akin to the MKK (I try to avoid the term copy !) since it has the taller tails with the enlarged rudders (albeit the cropped fin-cap), the stronger twin-tire front landing gear, the IFR-probe ... so I assume it to have the otherwise stronger airframe too.

Deino


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> IMO not ! If You compare closely, it is a de facto parallel development akin to the MKK (I try to avoid the term copy !) since it has the taller tails with the enlarged rudders (albeit the cropped fin-cap), the stronger twin-tire front landing gear, the IFR-probe ... so I assume it to have the otherwise stronger airframe too.
> 
> Deino



That wouldn't have been possible; I don't recall the Chinese having ever diassembled one of their MKKs, but I could be wrong. Certain motifs within the airframe may have been changed, but the only possible way for the Chinese to have come up with such an aircraft would be to modify the J-11BS (Huitong thinks so as well).

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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> That wouldn't have been possible; I don't recall the Chinese having ever diassembled one of their MKKs, but I could be wrong. Certain motifs within the airframe may have been changed, but the only possible way for the Chinese to have come up with such an aircraft would be to modify the J-11BS (Huitong thinks so as well).



I agree with your statement. It will be easier for Chinese to build a Su-30MKK similar aircraft based on their own expertise on J-11BS series rather than working on Russia airframe.

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## cirr

Things to look forward to in the next 12-14 months 

15年底是各种咆哮
16年开始是看黑丝集体出来亮相，估计2017号黑丝年底就能出来
16年估计大运也会有各种好消息，毕竟运输机本来就比战斗机快
15年底或者16年初估计还有个亮瞎眼的无人机会出来
16年初鶻鹰会有新版亮相
16年中或者下半年海飞丝会有最终结论。

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## Beast

cirr said:


> Things to look forward to in the next 12-14 months
> 
> 15年底是各种咆哮
> 16年开始是看黑丝集体出来亮相，估计2017号黑丝年底就能出来
> 16年估计大运也会有各种好消息，毕竟运输机本来就比战斗机快
> 15年底或者16年初估计还有个亮瞎眼的无人机会出来
> 16年初鶻鹰会有新版亮相
> 16年中或者下半年海飞丝会有最终结论。


2016, I hope to see J-10B/C with WS-10B 140KN thrust operational.
-CZ-5 rocket operational.
-New prototype of J-31 with WS-13 engine.
-JF-17 blk 2 with WS-13 engine
-Y-20 transport plane enter service
-C919 initial flight
-DF-41 operational
-W-14 operational
-CV001 launched
-Type055 cruiser launched
- anjian UCAV Launched

2016 will be an exciting year ahead.

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Things to look forward to in the next 12-14 months
> 
> 15年底是各种咆哮
> 16年开始是看黑丝集体出来亮相，估计2017号黑丝年底就能出来
> 16年估计大运也会有各种好消息，毕竟运输机本来就比战斗机快
> 15年底或者16年初估计还有个亮瞎眼的无人机会出来
> 16年初鶻鹰会有新版亮相
> 16年中或者下半年海飞丝会有最终结论。



Would you interpret this riddle for us?


----------



## aliaselin

cirr said:


> Things to look forward to in the next 12-14 months
> 
> 15年底是各种咆哮
> 16年开始是看黑丝集体出来亮相，估计2017号黑丝年底就能出来
> 16年估计大运也会有各种好消息，毕竟运输机本来就比战斗机快
> 15年底或者16年初估计还有个亮瞎眼的无人机会出来
> 16年初鶻鹰会有新版亮相
> 16年中或者下半年海飞丝会有最终结论。


He forgot to mention JF-17B
If I'm not wrong, L-15 with new engine may appear next year, too.


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## Akasa

aliaselin said:


> He forgot to mention JF-17B
> If I'm not wrong, L-15 with new engine may appear next year, too.



Would you provide a summary of his post?


----------



## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> Would you interpret this riddle for us?



J-20 2017 expected before the end of 2015；J-20s to apeear in droves in 2016
Y-20 in service starting 2016
FC-31 2.0 expected early 2016
A new type of UAV by end of 2015 or early 2016
Winner for 5th gen carrier-borne fighter announced/decided in H2 2016
etc etc

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## Windjammer

*Alan Warnes* ‏@warnesyworld  17h17 hours ago
Six PLAAF Su-27s have deployed to Korat in Thailand for ten day exercise. Amazing. So many unlikely liaisons these days.

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## Beast

Gripen looks real small. But I bet the RCS projected on radar will have an advantage.

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## Deino

Maybe ....


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## Beast

AVIC Helo video

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## Genesis

cirr said:


> J-20 2017 expected before the end of 2015；J-20s to apeear in droves in 2016
> Y-20 in service starting 2016
> FC-31 2.0 expected early 2016
> A new type of UAV by end of 2015 or early 2016
> Winner for 5th gen carrier-borne fighter announced/decided in H2 2016
> etc etc


well, your theories are coming true, seems the next thing is FC-31, the UAV thing is hard to keep track, due to so many of them are unveiled this year. 

FC-31 does make sense for next year. Y-20 also make sense, but the engine is still a problem.

All in all, a good few years in the air for China and pretty much everywhere else.

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## sheik

Deino said:


> Maybe ....
> 
> View attachment 276181
> View attachment 276182
> View attachment 276183


You can read Chinese Deino?


----------



## Anders

J-10A




J-10B





J15











WZ-10

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## nomi007

October 2014 indicated that the first *Il-78* was delivered to the PLAAF 13th Division (S/N 2064x?). Since then it has been seen supporting the *Su-30MKK* fleet. The latest rumor (October 2015) suggested that the 2nd *Il-78* was delivered in July 2015.

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## Deino

My latest work ... maybe someone is interested:

Photos from Harpia Publishing's post - Harpia Publishing | Facebook

Deino






Flashpoint China
Flashpoint China: Chinese Air Power and the Regional Balance: Andreas Rupprecht, Tom Cooper: 9780985455484: Amazon.com: Books

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## Zarvan

What latest news you people have on JH-7 B ? @MastanKhan


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## Akasa

Zarvan said:


> What latest news you people have on JH-7 B ? @MastanKhan



It still hasn't entered service; the PLAAF seems to be favoring the J-16 instead.


----------



## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> It still hasn't entered service; the PLAAF seems to be favoring the J-16 instead.


Who will induct Jh7b if J16 is available?

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## Deino

I think the best option would be as a MLU-program to modernise all existing JH-7A to this standard until they will be replaced by a new design much later.


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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> It still hasn't entered service; the PLAAF seems to be favoring the J-16 instead.


That is a logic decision. J-16 can dogfight and be a bomb truck while JH-7B , I doubt will have much improvement on its agility. The most will become an advance bomb truck, nothing more.

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## cirr

1st upgraded KJ-2000

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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Maybe ....
> 
> View attachment 276181
> View attachment 276182
> View attachment 276183


a personal question mate``can you read Chinese?


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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> a personal question mate``can you read Chinese?



The appropriate way to ask him is: "Können Sie chinesische lesen?"


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## Deino

cirr said:


> 1st upgraded KJ-2000



Any info on what systems were upgraded ?



rcrmj said:


> a personal question mate``can you read Chinese?



Honestly ... not ! But I have many friend who are more than helpful and if - as in case of that paper above - are willing to help with a translation.
I know this is my biggest obstacle in my interest in Chinese aviation matters, but since English at school was already a mess, France was a pure failure ... I think I will have to live with that.

Regarding this paper, I know it's not a bomber or UAV but a concept for a transport !



SinoSoldier said:


> The appropriate way to ask him is: "Können Sie chinesische lesen?"


----------



## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> The appropriate way to ask him is: "Können Sie chinesische lesen?"


your just being naughty```



Deino said:


> Any info on what systems were upgraded ?
> 
> 
> 
> Honestly ... not ! But I have many friend who are more than helpful and if - as in case of that paper above - are willing to help with a translation.
> I know this is my biggest obstacle in my interest in Chinese aviation matters, but since English at school was already a mess, France was a pure failure ... I think I will have to live with that.
> 
> Regarding this paper, I know it's not a bomber or UAV but a concept for a transport !


thats great``if you need any help just give me a shout``I do have few channels of providing sweets``


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## Deino

Hmmm ... I was just comparing the latest GE-images esp. at Xi'an-Yanliang and I'm surprised that there are so many "new" (??) or at least yellow coloured JH-7s are standing around.





With new information in regard to any new unit since years and as such the conclusion, that the production has maybe even ended, nearly nothing on the JH-7B ... so what's going on there ??

Are these "simply" older JH-7As during regular depot-maintenance ? .. or are they undergoing a MLU-program maybe even to JH-7B standard ... or is the production still running ??

Deino


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## Deino

For those interested ...






By the way, I now have my own monthly column called "Eye on the East" in the Combat Aircraft. Hope You like it.






Deino

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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Hmmm ... I was just comparing the latest GE-images esp. at Xi'an-Yanliang and I'm surprised that there are so many "new" (??) or at least yellow coloured JH-7s are standing around.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With new information in regard to any new unit since years and as such the conclusion, that the production has maybe even ended, nearly nothing on the JH-7B ... so what's going on there ??
> 
> Are these "simply" older JH-7As during regular depot-maintenance ? .. or are they undergoing a MLU-program maybe even to JH-7B standard ... or is the production still running ??
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 291835


I think with J16 at hands, no need to bring in JH7b with DSI anymore. Only need to update its avionics/radar/ew


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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> I think with J16 at hands, no need to bring in JH7b with DSI anymore. Only need to update its avionics/radar/ew




Yes, but since when was the JH-7B planned to Feature a DSI-intake ???

Otherwise I agree that it is most likely a MLU-program only to keep them in srvice for a few more years before they are replaced ...


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## cirr

“Old” L-15






“New” L-15 with 9 hardpoints











Hongdu Aircraft has a program under way to upgrade the capabilities of the L-15，together with the employment of WS-17 now that the domestically developed engine is almost ready for use。

A carrier-borne version is of course also under development。

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## 帅的一匹

PLAAF need hundreds of L15 for traning and ground raid purpose. WS13 for JF17 is also ready for PAF's adoption.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> PLAAF need hundreds of L15 for traning and ground raid purpose. WS13 for JF17 is also ready for PAF's adoption.



As you wish。。。。。。

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## nomi007

霸气!衡阳舰钓鱼岛海域与日舰对峙对骂  - 海军论坛 - 铁血社区
any one share this video


----------



## Akasa

Credits go to Henri K., who first posted this in November 2015...

Chinese Ku-band AESA radar, possibly for air-to-air missiles:





The radar has 832 T/R modules, each requiring 200 mW of power, and a diameter of 300 mm.


----------



## Deino

Sadly only in a very small version, but here's my next issue of my new monthly column ...

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## BoQ77

Deino said:


> Sadly only in a very small version, but here's my next issue of my new monthly column ...
> 
> View attachment 296611



Hi Andreas


----------



## Deino

Hey ... due to the loss of data also my last posts were deleted !

So here again for all interested:

It's finally done ... 

As already announced at the Harpia-PF-site (https://www.facebook.com/Harpia-Publishing-309173565988/?fref=ts), here is Harpia’s latest publication soon to be available:

“Flashpoint China” is – together with “Iraqi Air Power Reborn” – one of the first books in an all-new format from Harpia Publishing. Those readers familiar with Harpia’s previous titles will recognize the layout, colour codes and high-quality paper. Compared to earlier Harpia titles, however, the new series are altogether more compact, running to a total of 80 pages, and enabling coverage of ‘smaller’ themes. Of course, these books also retain the now-familiar in-depth coverage, painstaking research and lavish illustrations (around 75 in all) of their ‘bigger brothers’.

But now to its content:

Originally initiated or born out of the idea to look out what’s the situation at the Chinese borders, to analyse what kind of issues are behind there, it evolved thru a historical review of the different flashpoints and disputes and added a look how does this fit to the current ORBAT. Main focus was therefore set on China’s sight and perception – if possible – to set a few things straight, that are often ignored, omitted or simply not even mentioned in the West.

Quite understandable this resulted in a huge amount of information concerning each and every different “flashpoint”, that in the end had to be cut down to a readable volume, especially since the 80-page limit was a strict “border not to be crossed”; indeed a demanding or even Herculean duty and I’m more than thankful to Tom, who had done this in majority.

In line of this process, the PLA announced its structural reform and even if the script was nearly done, we decided nearly by last-minute to rearrange everything and especially the maps – here another very grateful THANKs to James – in order to comply with the new Chinese command structure so that each chapter includes the latest photos of the frontline aircraft from the relevant command, an up-date ORBAT and a regional map with the relevant Chinese bases.

Overall, this booklet will describe and analyse the current and possible future conflicts between China and its neighbours from a Chinese perspective, with a particular focus on People's Liberation Army air power. It includes a brief – to admit very brief but I hope sufficient long to explain – historical review.

As such I hope it was worth all efforts ... but now it's up to You to decide!

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/FPCN/index.html

Deino

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## aliaselin

Deino said:


> Hey ... due to the loss of data also my last posts were deleted !
> 
> So here again for all interested:
> 
> It's finally done ...
> 
> As already announced at the Harpia-PF-site (https://www.facebook.com/Harpia-Publishing-309173565988/?fref=ts), here is Harpia’s latest publication soon to be available:
> 
> “Flashpoint China” is – together with “Iraqi Air Power Reborn” – one of the first books in an all-new format from Harpia Publishing. Those readers familiar with Harpia’s previous titles will recognize the layout, colour codes and high-quality paper. Compared to earlier Harpia titles, however, the new series are altogether more compact, running to a total of 80 pages, and enabling coverage of ‘smaller’ themes. Of course, these books also retain the now-familiar in-depth coverage, painstaking research and lavish illustrations (around 75 in all) of their ‘bigger brothers’.
> 
> But now to its content:
> 
> Originally initiated or born out of the idea to look out what’s the situation at the Chinese borders, to analyse what kind of issues are behind there, it evolved thru a historical review of the different flashpoints and disputes and added a look how does this fit to the current ORBAT. Main focus was therefore set on China’s sight and perception – if possible – to set a few things straight, that are often ignored, omitted or simply not even mentioned in the West.
> 
> Quite understandable this resulted in a huge amount of information concerning each and every different “flashpoint”, that in the end had to be cut down to a readable volume, especially since the 80-page limit was a strict “border not to be crossed”; indeed a demanding or even Herculean duty and I’m more than thankful to Tom, who had done this in majority.
> 
> In line of this process, the PLA announced its structural reform and even if the script was nearly done, we decided nearly by last-minute to rearrange everything and especially the maps – here another very grateful THANKs to James – in order to comply with the new Chinese command structure so that each chapter includes the latest photos of the frontline aircraft from the relevant command, an up-date ORBAT and a regional map with the relevant Chinese bases.
> 
> Overall, this booklet will describe and analyse the current and possible future conflicts between China and its neighbours from a Chinese perspective, with a particular focus on People's Liberation Army air power. It includes a brief – to admit very brief but I hope sufficient long to explain – historical review.
> 
> As such I hope it was worth all efforts ... but now it's up to You to decide!
> 
> http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/FPCN/index.html
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 300446
> View attachment 300447


It would be much better for you to publish it later as the PLA structure will be rebuilt during this year.


----------



## Deino

aliaselin said:


> It would be much better for you to publish it later as the PLA structure will be rebuilt during this year.




Yes I know and had a similar idea, but first my publisher refused to postpone the release date and second, similar to my first book on "Modern Chinese Warplanes" (http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/MCW/index.html), which also contains the full Orbat (2012) we had to add the newly formed Brigades, which came out quite closely.

As such we decided to go on and restructure the whole book along the newly formed commands ... at least from what was known and I was working closely together with Kenneth Allan from the Jamestown-Foundation and RAND.

That surely includes a few mistakes since - You are correct - since it is right now too early to know what unit will probably be relocated, but if You look at where what unit is home-based and what Province is allocated to what command, it's at least possible to draw or sketch a rough Orbat along the new structure.

In cases where reports are contradicting it is mentioned ... otherwise I hope ...

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## Deino

It's now available ...

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## New

​

A video promoting the People's Liberation Army Air Force-informally known as the Chinese Air Force-has surfaced on YouTube. The video attempts to show the PLAAF as a service fully prepared to defend the country's air space, as well as contribute to fights on the ground and at sea, at a moment's notice.

The video starts with children playing in a field of flowers, wearing various national dresses of China's various regions. Suddenly, shattering the peace of this scene, Chinese air force pilots quickly scramble to their planes.

The video features China's latest fighter planes, including the Russian-made Su-30MKKmulti-role fighter (or possibly the J-11 or J-16 fighters-the three are so similar it's difficult to tell them apart). Also included is the J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" single engine fighter. The Chinese fighters valiantly engage a mysterious enemy fighter force and are victorious.











Next, at 4:19 the JH-7 "Flying Leopard" ground attack planes move in, presumably as part of a counterattack. At 4:34 the HQ-9 air defense missile system-roughly equivalent to the American Patriot PAC-2 missile, is visible, helping keep the skies free of enemy planes. 4:44 introduces the KJ-200, sort of a miniature version of the American AWACS early warning and command and control plane. Finally, H-6K bombers pound enemy ships with sticks of bombs.

The video shows differences between how the Chinese Air Force and U.S. Air Force portray themselves. The video is big on Chinese fighter pilots marching in formation to their planes, while cry fromAmerican pilots swaggering in ones and twos to their Raptors, Vipers, and Hornets. USAF pilots are shown as heroic individuals; Chinese pilots issue exacting commands to their nameless wingmen ("No. 3, drop height").

The video is strictly defensive in nature. China is attacked, the air force beats the enemy, and the air force goes home. End of story.

Watch the video here:

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## Akasa

Nice Ace Combat footage.

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## HttpError

Nice Video, I was wondering can Chinese upgrade their Flankers ? I mean do they have any intention to upgrade it by themselves ?

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## Akasa

HttpError said:


> Nice Video, I was wondering can Chinese upgrade their Flankers ? I mean do they have any intention to upgrade it by themselves ?



There have been numerous Flanker upgrades:
- J-11A
- J-11B
- J-15
- J-16
- J-11D

If you were referring to the Su-30MKK and imported Su-27SKs, yes, they can install domestic avionics and weaponry.

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## Deino

Can anyone translate or explain this "strange" news ?? PLAESE ?!!

http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1814136-1-1.html



> 鼎盛中华接近611所传达室老大爷的消息人士称：南方小四呼之欲出，单发，涡扇15，无尾三角翼布局，空重10吨以下，制空属性，两发中距空空蛋内置蛋舱，其余通通不要，隐身时代的歼7！



via: http://www.weibo.com/u/2685677853?from=myfollow_all&is_all=1

Deino


----------



## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Can anyone translate or explain this "strange" news ?? PLAESE ?!!
> 
> http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1814136-1-1.html
> 
> 
> 
> via: http://www.weibo.com/u/2685677853?from=myfollow_all&is_all=1
> 
> Deino


Said institution 611 is developing a new non tail delta wing light( single engine)stealthy combat aircraft, with 10 tons empty weight. It will be fit with WS15 turbo jet engine and hold only two BVRRAM in its weapon bay.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> Said institution 611 is developing a new non tail delta wing light( single engine)stealthy combat aircraft, with 10 tons empty weight. It will be fit with WS15 turbo jet engine and hold only two BVRRAM in its weapon bay.




Thanks ... As such it would be some sort of J-10-successor !

But how reliable could such a report be ?


----------



## 21stCentury

Deino said:


> Hey ... due to the loss of data also my last posts were deleted !
> 
> So here again for all interested:
> 
> It's finally done ...
> 
> As already announced at the Harpia-PF-site (https://www.facebook.com/Harpia-Publishing-309173565988/?fref=ts), here is Harpia’s latest publication soon to be available:
> 
> “Flashpoint China” is – together with “Iraqi Air Power Reborn” – one of the first books in an all-new format from Harpia Publishing. Those readers familiar with Harpia’s previous titles will recognize the layout, colour codes and high-quality paper. Compared to earlier Harpia titles, however, the new series are altogether more compact, running to a total of 80 pages, and enabling coverage of ‘smaller’ themes. Of course, these books also retain the now-familiar in-depth coverage, painstaking research and lavish illustrations (around 75 in all) of their ‘bigger brothers’.
> 
> But now to its content:
> 
> Originally initiated or born out of the idea to look out what’s the situation at the Chinese borders, to analyse what kind of issues are behind there, it evolved thru a historical review of the different flashpoints and disputes and added a look how does this fit to the current ORBAT. Main focus was therefore set on China’s sight and perception – if possible – to set a few things straight, that are often ignored, omitted or simply not even mentioned in the West.
> 
> Quite understandable this resulted in a huge amount of information concerning each and every different “flashpoint”, that in the end had to be cut down to a readable volume, especially since the 80-page limit was a strict “border not to be crossed”; indeed a demanding or even Herculean duty and I’m more than thankful to Tom, who had done this in majority.
> 
> In line of this process, the PLA announced its structural reform and even if the script was nearly done, we decided nearly by last-minute to rearrange everything and especially the maps – here another very grateful THANKs to James – in order to comply with the new Chinese command structure so that each chapter includes the latest photos of the frontline aircraft from the relevant command, an up-date ORBAT and a regional map with the relevant Chinese bases.
> 
> Overall, this booklet will describe and analyse the current and possible future conflicts between China and its neighbours from a Chinese perspective, with a particular focus on People's Liberation Army air power. It includes a brief – to admit very brief but I hope sufficient long to explain – historical review.
> 
> As such I hope it was worth all efforts ... but now it's up to You to decide!
> 
> http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/FPCN/index.html
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 300446
> View attachment 300447



You constructed this book? I applaud you if the creator is you. I saw this book on Amazon and its in my cart atm.


----------



## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> It's now available ...
> 
> View attachment 301874


What is the price?


----------



## Deino

21stCentury said:


> You constructed this book? I applaud you if the creator is you. I saw this book on Amazon and its in my cart atm.



Indeed, that's my work ... and if You like it You might also be interested in my other two works:

1. *Modern Chinese Warplanes, Combat Aircraft and Units of the Chinese Air Force and Naval Aviation*
A book related to the PLAAF Orbat (however 2012)

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/MCW/index.html

And very proud I am for a review by Mr. Polmar published in the US Naval Institute: Proceedings 

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/files/reviews/2013-USA-MCW-06-pp76-77.pdf








2. *Dragon’s Wings: Chinese Fighter and Bomber Aircraft Development Book Review*
A book related to the development of the individual aircrafts ...

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/ref/cp/book_cp_dragon.shtml








wanglaokan said:


> What is the price?



Offisial price is 18.95€ (excluding p&p) but this surely varies from which retailer You purchase it:

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/?q=node/286/popup&view=stores


All the best and thanks for Your interest,
Deino

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## Zarvan

China's J-20 Stealth Aircraft, Y-20 Transport To Enter Service "In Near Future"
- A +
China’s J-20 stealth fighter-bomber Aircraft and Y-20 tactical transport plane will be put into service “in the near future” and this will effectively enhance the PLA Air Force’s capability.

The official Chinamil.com.cn website made this assertion while denying reports that the J-20 stealth fighter had entered PLA Southern Theater Command service and that comprehensive training between J-20 and J-10 fighter are on.

“The so-called "TV images" cited by those false reports are actually the images of J-20’s flight that were misused when a TV program reported an aviation unit of the air force under the PLA Southern Theater Command on May 29,” the website said.

Western media has claimed the J-20’s stealth features have been copied from the American F-35 and the Y-20 transport is a replica of the Boeing C-17 due to the Chinese aircrafts’ similarity in looks to their American competitors. A charge that China vehemently denies.

At present, the J-20 stealth fighter and Y-20 transport plane are undergoing relevant test flights based on schedules.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16...o_Enter_Service__In_Near_Future_#.V0_wnNR95kg


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## Deino

I merged this one into the PLAAF-news thread ... no need for a seperate thread.

Deino


----------



## cirr

Prototype of a new type of aircraft will soon be on the road according to the following press release from AVIC dated 01-06-2016

*某型试验机公路运输协调会召开*

来源：中航工业

发布时间：2016-06-01

近日，中航工业与公安部、交通运输部、国防科工局联合组织召开某型试验机公路运输协调会，会议由集团公司综合管理部主持。会议成立了由国防科工局牵头的指挥领导机构，建立了由中航工业牵头的组织协调机制，各省市公安和交通部门联合保障，确保某型试验飞机安全、顺利、保密地完成运输任务。

http://www.avic.com.cn/cn/xwzx/jqyw/431260.shtml

FC-31 v2.0？The long-rumoured new UAV？H-18？Your guess is as good as mine。

Motorists pls watch out for and take pics of any convoy escorted by police and the military。

After reading the short notice again，I take it referring to an aircraft of great significance。

@Deino

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> Prototype of a new type of aircraft will soon be on the road according to the following press release from AVIC dated 01-06-2016
> 
> *某型试验机公路运输协调会召开*
> 
> 来源：中航工业
> 
> 发布时间：2016-06-01
> 
> 近日，中航工业与公安部、交通运输部、国防科工局联合组织召开某型试验机公路运输协调会，会议由集团公司综合管理部主持。会议成立了由国防科工局牵头的指挥领导机构，建立了由中航工业牵头的组织协调机制，各省市公安和交通部门联合保障，确保某型试验飞机安全、顺利、保密地完成运输任务。
> 
> http://www.avic.com.cn/cn/xwzx/jqyw/431260.shtml
> 
> FC-31 v2.0？The long-rumoured new UAV？H-18？Your guess is as good as mine。
> 
> Motorists pls watch out for and take pics of any convoy escorted by police and the military。
> 
> After reading the short notice again，I take it referring to an aircraft of great significance。
> 
> @Deino



If it gets a press release, then it is probably something minor.


----------



## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> If it gets a press release, then it is probably something minor.




I had a similar thought ... as such I would expect some sort of UAV or a new helicopter....


----------



## cirr

SinoSoldier said:


> If it gets a press release, then it is probably something minor.



If it was something minor，AVIC could have provided escort using its own security department。

If it was something minor，AVIC wouldn't have to involve the Ministry of Public Security，the Ministry of Transport and the State Administration of Science、Technology and Industry for National Defence.

If it was something minor, it wouldn't warrant the set-up of a task-specific command leading group headed by SASTIND，with AVIC playing the secondary role of organization and coordination。

If it was something minor, it would'nt have called for joint security cover by security and transport departments of provinces and cities along the way.

All the above is needed to ensure the secure、smooth and classified completion of the transport task in hand。



Deino said:


> I had a similar thought ... as such I would expect some sort of UAV or a new helicopter....



If it was some sort of UAV， it could easily be hauled in a container and no one would know what‘s inside。

If it was a new helicopter。。。

Anyway，we shall see。

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## aliaselin

Deino said:


> I had a similar thought ... as such I would expect some sort of UAV or a new helicopter....


 Better to be helicopter. I'd love to see Chinese version of Comanche

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## 星海军事

Another press release on a transportation coordination meeting early this year.* 

某重点型号交通运输专项工作协调会在京召开*

来源：中航工业
发布时间：2016-03-25

　　3月25日，某重点型号交通运输专项工作协调会在京召开， 交通部和相关省交通厅领导参加。在会上，综合管理部代表集团公司向交通部近年来对航空武器装备运输工作的大力支持表示感谢。会议就近期一系列军品运输工作 进行部署，要求各单位在当前的严峻形势下，要高度重视军品运输工作，确保航空武器装备产品按生产作业计划准时、安全运输，为航空武器产品交付提供有力保 障。

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## cirr

星海军事 said:


> Another press release on a transportation coordination meeting early this year.*
> 
> 某重点型号交通运输专项工作协调会在京召开*
> 
> 来源：中航工业
> 发布时间：2016-03-25
> 
> 3月25日，某重点型号交通运输专项工作协调会在京召开， 交通部和相关省交通厅领导参加。在会上，综合管理部代表集团公司向交通部近年来对航空武器装备运输工作的大力支持表示感谢。会议就近期一系列军品运输工作 进行部署，要求各单位在当前的严峻形势下，要高度重视军品运输工作，确保航空武器装备产品按生产作业计划准时、安全运输，为航空武器产品交付提供有力保 障。



This was evidently accorded a much lower security level compared with the one dated 01.06.2016.

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## cirr

China's next generation AWACs to use cutting-edge and innovative technologies including quantum information technology。

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Hey ... due to the loss of data also my last posts were deleted !
> 
> So here again for all interested:
> 
> It's finally done ...
> 
> As already announced at the Harpia-PF-site (https://www.facebook.com/Harpia-Publishing-309173565988/?fref=ts), here is Harpia’s latest publication soon to be available:
> 
> “Flashpoint China” is – together with “Iraqi Air Power Reborn” – one of the first books in an all-new format from Harpia Publishing. Those readers familiar with Harpia’s previous titles will recognize the layout, colour codes and high-quality paper. Compared to earlier Harpia titles, however, the new series are altogether more compact, running to a total of 80 pages, and enabling coverage of ‘smaller’ themes. Of course, these books also retain the now-familiar in-depth coverage, painstaking research and lavish illustrations (around 75 in all) of their ‘bigger brothers’.
> 
> But now to its content:
> 
> Originally initiated or born out of the idea to look out what’s the situation at the Chinese borders, to analyse what kind of issues are behind there, it evolved thru a historical review of the different flashpoints and disputes and added a look how does this fit to the current ORBAT. Main focus was therefore set on China’s sight and perception – if possible – to set a few things straight, that are often ignored, omitted or simply not even mentioned in the West.
> 
> Quite understandable this resulted in a huge amount of information concerning each and every different “flashpoint”, that in the end had to be cut down to a readable volume, especially since the 80-page limit was a strict “border not to be crossed”; indeed a demanding or even Herculean duty and I’m more than thankful to Tom, who had done this in majority.
> 
> In line of this process, the PLA announced its structural reform and even if the script was nearly done, we decided nearly by last-minute to rearrange everything and especially the maps – here another very grateful THANKs to James – in order to comply with the new Chinese command structure so that each chapter includes the latest photos of the frontline aircraft from the relevant command, an up-date ORBAT and a regional map with the relevant Chinese bases.
> 
> Overall, this booklet will describe and analyse the current and possible future conflicts between China and its neighbours from a Chinese perspective, with a particular focus on People's Liberation Army air power. It includes a brief – to admit very brief but I hope sufficient long to explain – historical review.
> 
> As such I hope it was worth all efforts ... but now it's up to You to decide!
> 
> http://www.harpia-publishing.com/galleries/FPCN/index.html
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 300446
> View attachment 300447




I got my first review ...

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/ref/harp/book_harp_flashchina.shtml



> *Review*
> 
> Regional hegemon China remains a focus of Pacific tension. Now Harpia offers the perfect anodyne to today’s vacuous and shallow reporting on Chinese air power.
> 
> Available in North America from Casemate, _Flashpoint China_ bears all the hallmarks of Harpia’s previous publications: superb inquiry, balanced briefings and logical layout – but in a new, compact format spanning just 78 pithy pages!
> 
> It’s the stuff of competent intelligence analysis.
> 
> Coverage neatly and geographically divides into separate chapters on PRC commands – northern, eastern, southern and western. Sections survey key Chinese capabilities, basing, procurement, R&D and assets – including naval forces. But I think author Andreas Rupprecht means “green water” – not “brown water” – to denote coastal operations.
> 
> Contents also recap historical, territorial, economic and defense considerations with neighbor states. Topics and implications remain as fresh as today’s headlines. The South China Sea. Spratly Islands. Woody Island. Border disputes. Islamist insurgents. Even America’s 1990 Pressler Amendment.
> 
> Rupprecht also explores potential conflict scenarios. One, for instance, posits a possible Chinese invasion of North Korea – making Pyongyang Beijing’s vassal state.
> 
> The generously illustrated effort sports dozens of color photos, 12 tables and six maps. Best of all, this vital volume completely complements Harpia’s excellent _Modern Chinese Warplanes_ – also by author Rupprecht.
> 
> Buy them both!

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## lcloo

Waiting for the 20-20-20 to be delivered to PLAAF within next 6 months.

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## cirr

Fresh KJ-500






A new AWACS regiment in the making?

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## BordoEnes

I know this is a weird question but do any of the Chinese members perhaps have a list of the inventory of the Chinese Air Force in the period between 1970's-1980's. Provided with some source ofcourse, thanks in advance.


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## grey boy 2

JH-7A with YJ-83 (Chinese subsonic anti-ship cruise missile)

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## argonautluk

Awesome informations!


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## grey boy 2



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## lcloo

Hundreds of PLAAF SAM air defence reserve personnels were called up for training with the regulars this week. The reserves are ex-PLAAF personnels who have retired from the regular service.

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## grey boy 2

JH-7B program still very much alive and progressing
*飞豹B下马的谣言不攻自破*



















Looks like there are 3 JH-7B fighter bomber in the pictures

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

grey boy 2 said:


> JH-7B program still very much alive and progressing
> *飞豹B下马的谣言不攻自破*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like there are 3 JH-7B fighter bomber in the pictures



This bird has still a role to play. It is quite a competent platform in multiple role mission environment. If Pak naval forces get this...their coastal defence is assured.

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> JH-7B program still very much alive and progressing
> *飞豹B下马的谣言不攻自破*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like there are 3 JH-7B fighter bomber in the pictures


These are all JH-7A

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## cirr

J-11D

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## Deino

For all still undecided  ... I received a fine review for my latest book "Flashpoint China" in "The Journal of JAPCC", Ed. 22, Spring/Summer 2016

http://www.harpia-publishing.com/files/reviews/2016_JAPCC22p95.PDF

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## Brainsucker

cirr said:


> J-11D



What's the current status of this fine bird? Have they enter the mass production?


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## Beast

Brainsucker said:


> What's the current status of this fine bird? Have they enter the mass production?


Yes, operational plane.


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## Deino

Beast said:


> Yes, operational plane.



@Beast
Can You proof it ?? All we know so far is that there are two prototypes ... and concerning this image it is so far "only" a yellow factory-fresh bird standing most likely at SAC's tarmac ... as such surely not an "operational" one.

Deino


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Deino said:


> For all still undecided  ... I received a fine review for my latest book "Flashpoint China" in "The Journal of JAPCC", Ed. 22, Spring/Summer 2016
> 
> http://www.harpia-publishing.com/files/reviews/2016_JAPCC22p95.PDF
> 
> View attachment 324933



Deino,

Firsly, well done. Keep up your good work. 

I, however, have one question. 

What is your primary analysis/information source? Is it the internet fora and then benchmarking/comparative analysis of the Chinese and western tech?

Or do you have inside sources? What about Chinese strategy/doctorine? Do you have access to it?
Just like to understand you better, that is it.

Regardless, I find that you are a balanced and ethical analyst! Great human being to top that as well.

Enjoy my resptect, teacher man!

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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> @Beast
> Can You proof it ?? All we know so far is that there are two prototypes ... and concerning this image it is so far "only" a yellow factory-fresh bird standing most likely at SAC's tarmac ... as such surely not an "operational" one.
> 
> Deino



The third prototype has already made its first flight

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> The third prototype has already made its first flight




Thanks ... but so even with now three aircraft flying we are still a bit off to "already operational" and is this the third one ?!


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Thanks ... but so even with now three aircraft flying we are still a bit off to "already operational" and is this the third one ?!


Of course they are not operational


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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> Of course they are not operational




Thanks ... my request was simply meant as an assurance regarding post #1240 above. 

https://defence.pk/threads/chinese-air-force-plaaf-news-discussions.84214/page-83#post-8560662

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## cirr

KJ-500 in Tibet

















J-10s at the same airport

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## Deino

... and the J-10s most likely from the 44. Division ?!


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## cirr

Deino said:


> ... and the J-10s most likely from the 44. Division ?!



FYI, K2S is having its J-10s replaced with J-10B/Cs.

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## Brainsucker

cirr said:


> FYI, K2S is having its J-10s replaced with J-10B/Cs.



So this is a kind of rotation in the Air force? The .44 received newer J-10B/C, Tibet get J-10/A ?


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## cirr

J-11s in training with KJ-500 over airspace in East China
















http://www.81.cn/syjdt/2016-08/23/content_7220251.htm



Brainsucker said:


> So this is a kind of rotation in the Air force? The .44 received newer J-10B/C, Tibet get J-10/A ?



No. No idea where K2S's J-10As have gone.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> FYI, K2S is having its J-10s replaced with J-10B/Cs.




Thanks and YES, I already knew that, so following the 170. Brigade FTTC with 78x1x serials this regiment from the 2. Division with 10x3x serials is also confirmed.

A questionmark however are the other two units. IMO nearly confirmed is a regiment within the 19. Division with 30x0x serials (IMO most likely) and following some reports the former J-10A regiment within the 44. Division with 50x5x serials is said to operate the first J-10Cs.

I added a similar post at the J-10-thread !

Deino



Brainsucker said:


> So this is a kind of rotation in the Air force? The .44 received newer J-10B/C, Tibet get J-10/A ?




As far as I know a new regiment at or close to Yanji (21st Fighter Division/61st Air Regiment) received J-10s in early (January) 2016.

However would be interesting to know, where the other "older" A-models went to ?


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## Jäger

I have a couple questions how many AWACs does the PLAAF field? what type of Air defense systems have they fielded on their islands? and is the Z-20 helicopter supplementing or replacing the Mi-17s?


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## Beast

Bundeswehr said:


> I have a couple questions how many AWACs does the PLAAF field? what type of Air defense systems have they fielded on their islands? and is the Z-20 helicopter supplementing or replacing the Mi-17s?



http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.sg/p/surveillance-aircraft-i.html?m=0


http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.sg/p/surveillance-aircraft-ii.html?m=0


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## Deino

Does anyone know why this Il-76MD received this "strange" blue-red-white scheme ??


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## 星海军事

Deino said:


> Does anyone know why this Il-76MD received this "strange" blue-red-white scheme ??
> 
> View attachment 329929



It is now a training aid

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> It is now a training aid




Interesting and IMO esp. in mind of the limited number of true heavy transports a bit surprising that such a bird is assigned to training duties.

Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Interesting and IMO esp. in mind of the limited number of true heavy transports a bit surprising that such a bird is assigned to training duties.
> 
> Deino


With Y-20, it's not limited after all.


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## Deino

Beast said:


> With Y-20, it's not limited after all.




With so far only two Y-20s delivered, surely not.

If You want to expand Your strategic lift capabilities - also by adding whichever second-hand Il-76 You get - You do not reassign these most valuable type to a training unit only after You just received the first two Y-20s.

Deino


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## Beast

Deino said:


> With so far only two Y-20s delivered, surely not.
> 
> If You want to expand Your strategic lift capabilities - also by adding whichever second-hand Il-76 You get - You do not reassign these most valuable type to a training unit only after You just received the first two Y-20s.
> 
> Deino


Those second hand IL-76 are long purchase many years ago plus Russian will not return a single cent of the USD1.6billion paid for suppose 38 brand new IL-76 planes. They offer these second hand IL-76 repayment. What do you expect. Since you are so expert then care to explain why they sacrifice your so called precious strategic lifter as trainer?

Obviously many Y-20 are in the pipeline ready to be deliver to PLAAF by end of the year. Just Becos only 2 Y-20, doesn't mean we will stuck with just 2 Y-20 for next few years.


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Does anyone know why this Il-76MD received this "strange" blue-red-white scheme ??
> 
> View attachment 329929


Looking at the paint scheme, my guess is that this is the one that is not in flying condition, and is used for ground crew training purpose only. just a two cent worth of my thought.

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## j20blackdragon



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## chisty_chowdhury

*J-11D Fighter jet With Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) Radar





http://chinesemilitaryreview.blogspot.com/2015/11/j-11d-sino-flanker-fighter-jet-with.html *

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## Deino

Again ... this image is old - actually from November 2015 ! So, why again ?

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## Tanker88

Very nice looking jet that JD-11 is.

*Antonov and China ink cooperation agreement*

http://echelon-defense.com/2016/09/01/antonov-and-china-ink-cooperation-agreement/

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## cirr

We are developing a new generation more powerful bomber. You will see it in due time.

--------Gen. Ma Xiaotian, Commander of the PLAAF who made the above remarks while appearing in a TV programme tonight.

If I am correct, this is the first official confirmation that China is working on its next generation stealth strategic bomber.

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## Pepsi Cola

what a good day! first, the Antonov. Now, the bomber!

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## Bussard Ramjet

cirr said:


> We are developing a new generation more powerful bomber. You will see it in due time.
> 
> --------Gen. Ma Xiaotian, Commander of the PLAAF who made the above remarks while appearing in a TV programme tonight.
> 
> If I am correct, this is the first official confirmation that China is working on its next generation stealth strategic bomber.



The supposed H 20, right?


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## j20blackdragon



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## cirr

Bussard Ramjet said:


> The supposed H 20, right?

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## ChineseTiger1986

cirr said:


>



With Y-20 and the coming giant transportation aircraft going underway, also with the H-20.

China's strategic aerial fleet will soon be forged.

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## cirr

Okarus said:


> what a good day! first, the Antonov. Now, the bomber!



Straight from the horse's mouth 

http://v.ifeng.com/mil/mainland/m/201609/01ffcc17-df2f-4c8a-af9a-75ef3ff0ea83.shtml

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## cirr

ChineseTiger1986 said:


> With Y-20 and the coming giant transportation aircraft going underway, also with the H-20.
> 
> China's strategic aerial fleet will soon be forged.



Still remember this "news" in 2015"?? 

《中国航空报》

2015-11-26 09:37:46

中航飞机研发中心是我国目前唯一集歼击轰炸机、轰炸机、民用飞机、运输机和特种飞机设计研究于一体的国家级大中型军民用飞机设计研发基地，而总体气动设计研究则是中航飞机研发中心的“龙头”单位，是型号研制的原点、设计技术的聚点。

多年来，总体气动人不懈努力、孜孜以求，先后攻克了大型飞机总体布局设计、大型飞机超临界机翼设计、全三维数字化设计及电子协调样机、多乘员多任务系统驾驶舱综合设计、*背负式锯齿型并列双发大S弯进气道*等一系列国内领先的关键技术，[/b]不断提升总体气动设计能力。同时，他们还与俄罗斯TsAGI，欧洲ETW、DNW、CIRA等国外研究机构开展了广泛的技术合作与交流，不断开拓技术视野，促进总体气动设计技术与国际接轨，使研发中心的总体气动设计能力始终居于行业前列。。。。。。

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## j20blackdragon

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/attack-aircraft-ii.html

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Does anyone know why this Il-76MD received this "strange" blue-red-white scheme ??
> 
> View attachment 329929




Here more:

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## j20blackdragon



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## grey boy 2

Close up pictures of KJ-500 with newest Aesa radar 中国空军空警-500采用新型数字相控阵雷达。

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## grey boy 2



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## Beast

grey boy 2 said:


>



100% everything made in China including the turboprop engine.

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## j20blackdragon



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## j20blackdragon



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## grey boy 2

L-15 in service with the Zambian Air Force 赞比亚接空军受首批中国L-15高级教练机

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## grey boy 2

JL-9

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## grey boy 2

JL-9

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## Beast

JL-9 continue the legacy of Mig-21 but in a high octane mode.

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## mil-avia

Five Planes of the Chinese Air Force You Really Ought To Know About


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## ahojunk

PLA Air Force to regularize training over First Island Chain
By Yuan Can (People's Daily Online) 15:34, September 13, 2016






Several People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force aircraft, including H-6K bombers, flew over Bashi Channel toward the Western Pacific Ocean for high-sea training on Sept. 12, a spokesperson of the PLA Air Force said.

H-6K bombers, Su-30 and J-11 fighters and early-warning and aerial refueling aircraft all participated in the military drill, which aimed to advance Air Force training so as to maintain national sovereignty and guarantee peaceful development, the spokesperson said.

"This is common practice for the air forces of sea-adjacent states, and a normal requirement for China's national defense and military-building," the spokesperson explained, adding that the move is also in accordance with international law and practice.

The PLA Air Force will be organizing regular exercises that fly past the "first island chain", or the first chain of major archipelagos from the eastern continental mainland coast.

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## Beast

The Su-30MKK refuel from which tanker?


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## cirr



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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bombers mass deployed in Xinjiang

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bombers mass deployed in Xinjiang

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## grey boy 2

J-10B new AESA radar

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## Deino

Again I need some help with a translation, but the number 1493 denotes the radar type ? (or am I wrong?) ... but isn't the Type-1493 the radar installed in the J-11B ??

Deino


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## grey boy 2

Deino said:


> Again I need some help with a translation, but the number 1493 denotes the radar type ? (or am I wrong?) ... but isn't the Type-1493 the radar installed in the J-11B ??
> 
> Deino


It said new AESA radar of J-10B capable of locking on target of 0.05/sq meter radar reflation at range of 100-130km
Multi targets capability better than Type-1493 radar

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## Deino

Thanks !


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## eldamar

Deino said:


> With so far only two Y-20s delivered, surely not.
> 
> If You want to expand Your strategic lift capabilities - also by adding whichever second-hand Il-76 You get - You do not reassign these most valuable type to a training unit only after You just received the first two Y-20s.
> 
> Deino



Somehow, PLAAF inventory planners must have felt these 'valuable' 2ndhand assets are replaceable with the Y-20 to assign them(il-76) to training units. They could have taken into account the production speed of the Y-20s(e.g 3D-printing, etc)


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## siegecrossbow

grey boy 2 said:


> It said new AESA radar of J-10B capable of locking on target of 0.05/sq meter radar reflation at range of 100-130km
> Multi targets capability better than Type-1493 radar



Doesn't the J-10B use PESA radars?


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## grey boy 2

New JL-9











J-11 intercepting American airforce "P-8" 中评社北京8月30日电／8月18日，中国战斗机在中国南海上空上演了一场“刀锋上的舞蹈”：一架中国歼-11BH战斗机在中国南海“危险接近”美国P-8侦察机，甚至“进行了一个‘桶滚’机动，越过P-8的头顶”

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## grey boy 2

Found a nice picture of J-20, probably has been posted before

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Found a nice picture of J-20, probably has been posted before




Jeppp ... surely a bit older but posted (or at least saved !) on 15. December 2015.

Here in full-size.

Deino

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## cirr

Now you've been informed of another project that is coming to conclusion.

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## Deino

Some days ago I found this image stating that the 126. Brigade has been converted to the JH-7A ... can anyone confirm ?

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Now you've been informed of another project that is coming to conclusion.




is this only a concept or proposal or a real project already?


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## Malik Alashter

grey boy 2 said:


>


I like this plane so cute.

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## grey boy 2

Comparison between the prototype and LRIP version of J-20

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## Brainsucker

cirr said:


> Now you've been informed of another project that is coming to conclusion.



Is this the "long range Bomber" that they said to be developed right now?


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## grey boy 2

Brainsucker said:


> Is this the "long range Bomber" that they said to be developed right now?


No, just another big missile successfully developed to hit big targets

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## eldamar

Brainsucker said:


> Is this the "long range Bomber" that they said to be developed right now?



isnt that the H-6

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## grey boy 2

Same angle comparison between J-20 and T-50 (同角度比较. 三代VS四代)

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## grey boy 2



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## Daniel808

Brainsucker said:


> Is this the "long range Bomber" that they said to be developed right now?



Not the bomber, but the missile.
The Bomber is H-6K Bomber.
Already in Production a couple years ago.

If you reffering to H-20 Stealth Strategic Bomber.
No, it's not.




eldarlmari said:


> isnt that the H-6



Yes, H-6K Bomber.


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## cirr

An anti-ballistic missile early-warning system was received by a PLAAF unit in September 2016. 

Senior officers from the Airforce High Command were present at the handover ceremony.

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> SU-30




Ähhhmmm YES indeed .. a Russian Su-30 - actually no. 502 MKK - but why here ???


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## grey boy 2

Deino said:


> Ähhhmmm YES indeed .. a Russian Su-30 - actually no. 502 MKK - but why here ???


sorry, my mistake

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## hk299792458

Found something very interesting

http://www.eastpendulum.com/exclusif-drone-hypersonique-chinois-revele

Membership (or free inscription) needed.

Henri K.

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## grey boy 2

New picture of J-16 (DS大彪 歼16新图)

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> New picture of J-16 (DS大彪 歼16新图)




They are not new, they are from 2. August 2016 !


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## grey boy 2

*New PLA bomber may feature 4 turbofan engines*
By Chen Boyuan (China.org.cn) 14:04, October 10, 2016


Chinese air force expert Fu Qianshao has speculated that China's new type of long-range bomber, currently being developed, may be equipped with four turbofan engines.

His remark came after Gen. Ma Xiaotian, commander of PLA Air Force, publicly confirmed the plane's existence for the first time.

Fu said his assessment was based on the comprehensive technological capacity of the PLA Air Force. He said the new bomber would most likely be equipped with the WS-10 (literally, turbofan-10), now being installed in fighter jets.

Since the WS-10 has two versions, one with an afterburner and the other without, Fu further speculated there would be three separate technological plans for the bomber's engine configuration.




The first plan emphasizes the bomber's stealth capability but not its supersonic penetration performance. It calls for a WS-10 version without an afterburner. The second plan requires the WS-10 to be fitted with afterburners to generate the extra thrust needed for rapid acceleration for a certain period. Under the third plan, both stealth ability and supersonic penetration are equally stressed, something the PLA is also capable of realizing with its present level of technical expertise.

Currently, only the United States and Russia possess long-range bombers. The United State has the B-52 Stratofortress, the B-1 Lancer and the B-2 Spirit. The long-range bombers in the Russian air force are the Tu-95 Bear and the Tu-160 Blackjack.

Some military experts believe China's H-6K medium-long-range strategic bomber could have its engines and avionics upgraded to give it a range of 8,000-9,000 km. But Fu pointed out that medium-long-range bombers should have a range in excess of 6,000 km, while long-range bombers should be double that, carrying a payload of 20-30 tons.

He said the decision on which of three engine configurations to adopt rests with the military. However, once the new bomber is developed, China will instantly close the gap with world's leading military powers and possibly, even gain some advantage as a latecomer.

Another Chinese aviation expert, Wang Yanan, said the new bomber will resemble the Russian Tu-160 fixed-wing aircraft, instead of the U.S. B-2, which features a flying wing design.


*(For the latest China news, Please follow People's Daily on Twitter and Facebook)*(Web editor: Yuan Can, Bia
http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/1010/c90000-9124701.html

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## lcloo

Unconfirmed rumour said a mock up of H-20 is being built.


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## Akasa

lcloo said:


> Unconfirmed rumour said a mock up of H-20 is being built.



Is this rumor recent? I was under the impression that a mockup had been built years ago.


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## pzkilo

lcloo said:


> Unconfirmed rumour said a mock up of H-20 is being built.


Source？I mean where did u get this rumour?


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## lcloo

The news was on FYJS just yesterday. It is gone now, I think it has been deleted.

Usually news of no substance will stay around for some times even weeks, but this one is gone pretty quick.

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## grey boy 2

J-11D

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## Deino

Thats a fake


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## grey boy 2

34 J-16 has been produced? 是否可以理解为歼16已经生产了34架了？
It said if ONE J-16 has been produced yearly which will meant the below pictures should be the 1st dated back to 1982

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## Pepsi Cola

grey boy 2 said:


> 34 J-16 has been produced? 是否可以理解为歼16已经生产了34架了？
> It said if ONE J-16 has been produced yearly which will meant the below pictures should be the 1st dated back to 1982


what are you trying to say?


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## grey boy 2

Okarus said:


> what are you trying to say?


Its a "_sarcastic_ post" regarding some so-called expert on sina claiming ONE J-16 being produced yearly
So now as the other insider claimed 34 J-16 has been produced, do some simple maths and you will should came up with the 1st J-16 was being produced in year of "1982" can you read Chinese bro? if yes, maybe you can get my drift





Rumors that TWO J-20 will show up in the Air Show China 2016, may unveil the internal weapons bay as well
ZT微博 大新闻！珠海航展J20可能要来两架！

*昨天老天发了一个文章，说这个涉密战斗机要加入一个编队，我还以为要和八一的J10编队呢。*
*









*

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> 34 J-16 has been produced? 是否可以理解为歼16已经生产了34架了？
> It said if ONE J-16 has been produced yearly which will meant the below pictures should be the 1st dated back to 1982




Just noticed, this alleged 34. J-16 is exactly the same bird already shown here:

https://defence.pk/threads/chinese-air-force-plaaf-news-discussions.84214/page-88#post-8785951

... and I have a smaller version of it already since 2. August !

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## Deino

A minor news ... and again some sort of self-advertising !:p 

Harpia Publishing opened a new page rated to my two books and all updates on the PLAAF.

https://www.facebook.com/Modern-Chinese-Warplanes-611223845748378/

Stay tuned ...

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## Deino

LS-500J LGB droppings ....

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## Nevsky



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## hk299792458

Crash of a JH-7A from Liuzhou 126th brigade

http://www.eastpendulum.com/crash-chasseur-bombardier-jh-7a

Henri K.


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## hk299792458

For those who are interested by chinese wing-in-ground development, Bruno R. just wrote a very complet coverage here :

http://www.eastpendulum.com/chinese-wing-in-ground

@Deino , feel free for any comment. Bruno has a completely different style of research and writing than me.

Henri K.

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## Deino

hk299792458 said:


> For those who are interested by chinese wing-in-ground development, Bruno R. just wrote a very complet coverage here :
> 
> http://www.eastpendulum.com/chinese-wing-in-ground
> 
> @Deino , feel free for any comment. Bruno has a completely different style of research and writing than me.
> 
> Henri K.




Thanks a lot and even if I only had time for a brief cross-reading I already admire and applause it. More when I'm thru with a translation; French is really not my best ... quite similar to Chinese.

Anyway I was looking for a summary on Chinese WIGs since years ... chapeau !

Thanks again and keep on Your work.
Deino


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## hk299792458

Deino said:


> Thanks a lot and even if I only had time for a brief cross-reading I already admire and applause it. More when I'm thru with a translation; French is really not my best ... quite similar to Chinese.
> 
> Anyway I was looking for a summary on Chinese WIGs since years ... chapeau !
> 
> Thanks again and keep on Your work.
> Deino



If you have any question, just leave a comment to Bruno under his post. He is far more "expert" than me in some topics.

Somethime we don't need to be chinese to learn more on their projects. 

Henri K.


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## Hindustani78

13:08
Russian Helicopters signs contract with Chinese company on delivery of 18 Ansat, Mi-171 and Ka-32 helicopters before end of 2018

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## Pepsi Cola

Hindustani78 said:


> 13:08
> Russian Helicopters signs contract with Chinese company on delivery of 18 Ansat, Mi-171 and Ka-32 helicopters before end of 2018


can I have the source and the specifics?

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## Deino

Finally a clear image + serial !

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## Beast

hk299792458 said:


> If you have any question, just leave a comment to Bruno under his post. He is far more "expert" than me in some topics.
> 
> Somethime we don't need to be chinese to learn more on their projects.
> 
> Henri K.


Of cos, you can read and understand Chinese is a different thing. But w/o knowing a single word of Chinese and try to claim to be expert or deep understanding in analyzing Chinese military development is BS in my opinion.

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## yusheng

11.11 happy 67TH birthday of PLAA




during 1950‘s Korean War, China official figures said PLAA lost 399 aircraft, 231 was shot down in air combat 231 aircraft, including 224 MIG -15, 4 Du -2 bombers and 3 La -11 fighter, another 168 aircraft of various types of aircraft losses due to other reasons . shot down 330 Allied aircraft , mostly US, in air combat fighter jets: 211 F-86 , 72 F-80, F-84, 47 were F-94, FMK-5, FMK-8, FMK-24, F-51, B-26, B-29, F-86; 95 F-84 wounded.

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## grey boy 2

Chinese SU-34 on the making?

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## Pepsi Cola

grey boy 2 said:


> Chinese SU-34 on the making?


glad to see it has the PAK FA style canards. I wonder what makes the engineers decide to not include DSI intakes though

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2



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## Deino

Does anyone know what's this store under the JH-7A's (the one on the right in front) wings ???

IMO it looks not like an AGM - like the KD-88 on the one behind - or the KG600 ECM-pop (which is usually carried outside) ... a new EW-pod, some sort of gliding JSOW weapon ??


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## The Eagle

Deino said:


> Does anyone know what's this store under the JH-7A's (the one on the right in front) wings ???
> 
> IMO it looks not like an AGM - like the KD-88 on the one behind - or the KG600 ECM-pop (which is usually carried outside) ... a new EW-pod, some sort of gliding JSOW weapon ??
> 
> View attachment 353183



Sir, it is KG-600, as far as I can see. Shown with JF-17 in Zhuhai Airshow as well as being spotted on display with J-10B at the same Airshow.

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## Deino

Thanks for Your reply but I think the KG600 is much slimmer, smaller and lighter and usually carried on the AAM-pylon on the wings.

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## The Eagle

Deino said:


> Thanks for Your reply but I think the KG600 is much slimmer, smaller and lighter and usually carried on the AAM-pylon on the wings.
> 
> View attachment 353277
> View attachment 353278



Well, IMO (I may be wrong) but J-10 is in AA mode that carrying AAM on external pylon while the POD is shifted to the inner pylon (I think it depends on the role that AC flies and holds the POD). Also, in below pictures, the POD is showing the side inlet thing pointed backwards, displayed with JFT and the same can be noticed on JH-7A (your post # 1346) wing pylon while the POD with J-10B is placed with side inlet thing pointed to forward or may be it is wrongly placed but in your last quoted post #1348, the same side inlet thing is again pointing forward.

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## Deino

The Eagle said:


> Well, IMO (I may be wrong) but J-10 is in AA mode that carrying AAM on external pylon while the POD is shifted to the inner pylon (I think it depends on the role that AC flies and holds the POD). Also, in below pictures, the POD is showing the side inlet thing pointed backwards, displayed with JFT and the same can be noticed on JH-7A (your post # 1346) wing pylon while the POD with J-10B is placed with side inlet thing pointed to forward or may be it is wrongly placed but in your last quoted post #1348, the same side inlet thing is again pointing forward.
> ...




Indeed. I think You are correct !


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## grey boy 2



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## Beast



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## cirr



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## Deino

cirr said:


>




Oha ... what kind of monster-AAM is this ??? Finally the Real PL-15 ?? IMO the one in the J-20 was always too much a PL-12-development.


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## j20blackdragon

The PL-15 is a significantly larger missile than the PL-12. Please compare.

PL-15




PL-12

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## Blue Marlin

j20blackdragon said:


> The PL-15 is a significantly larger missile than the PL-12. Please compare.
> 
> PL-15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PL-12
> View attachment 353856


the lack for control surfaces suggest its main platform is for those with internal weapons bays

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## j20blackdragon

Blue Marlin said:


> the lack for control surfaces suggest its main platform is for those with internal weapons bays



Lack of control surfaces (except for small fins at the rear) would suggest to me that it may have thrust vectoring in lieu of traditional control surfaces. Like the A-Darter for example.

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## Deino

Just two thought, that maybe contradict ... but just what's Your opinion:

1. the PL-15 is most often reported with a range in excess of >200km ... IMO with a PL-12-sized design as the one seen in the J-20 very unlikely. So could it be that this is the real PL-15 - aka a new design - and the missile in the J-20's bays is a further PL-12-development ?? Maybe that rumoured AEW/AWACS-killer ?

2. Since the J-16 is a striker, could this be a new ARM ??

Deino


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## Deino

Hmmm ... ??? We already had a similar missile spotted under a J-11B in 2011 !











But they are different IMO !!!??

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## cirr

Deino said:


> Hmmm ... ??? We already had a similar missile spotted under a J-11B in 2011 !
> 
> View attachment 353881
> 
> 
> View attachment 353882
> 
> 
> But they are different IMO !!!??



The new missile is about 6m in length, from which it is easy to work out the diameter at some 400mm.

It is a giant missile for sure. Anti-AWACS? ASAT?





Schematics from a research article published years ago

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## 星海军事

Blue Marlin said:


> the lack for control surfaces suggest its main platform is for those with internal weapons bays


The missile is ~5.8 m long and ~306 mm in diameter, so it is definetly not a MRAAM and not suitable for J-20's internal weapon bay.

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## yantong1980

Seems specified for very long-range aerial target, a specific aerial target...AWACS?

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## Akasa

j20blackdragon said:


> The PL-15 is a significantly larger missile than the PL-12. Please compare.
> 
> PL-15
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PL-12
> View attachment 353856



That's not a PL-15; it is significantly longer and thicker. The PL-15 is a counterpart to the AIM-120D while this mystery missile would be best compared to the AIM-54 and KS-172 in terms of role.

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## Deino

SinoSoldier said:


> That's not a PL-15; it is significantly longer and thicker. The PL-15 is a counterpart to the AIM-120D while this mystery missile would be best compared to the AIM-54 and KS-172 in terms of role.




Exactly and therefore my question again: The so far seen PL-15 in the J-20 and on the J-11B is IMO too much of an PL-12-development and does not fit to the reported claims in range and capability to the rumoured PL-15. So, I am questioning if the missile in the J-20 and on the J-11B is the PL-15 at all??

This monster-missile in contrast is something new and fits much better to the descriptions and reports of the PL-15 ... so IMO this is the true PL-15 and the missile we saw before is "only" a further development of the PL-12 for internal carriage.

Deino


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Exactly and therefore my question again: The so far seen PL-15 in the J-20 and on the J-11B is IMO too much of an PL-12-development and does not fit to the reported claims in range and capability to the rumoured PL-15. So, I am questioning if the missile in the J-20 and on the J-11B is the PL-15 at all??
> 
> This monster-missile in contrast is something new and fits much better to the descriptions and reports of the PL-15 ... so IMO this is the true PL-15 and the missile we saw before is "only" a further development of the PL-12 for internal carriage.
> 
> Deino



I wouldn't pay too much attention to the designations. It wouldn't be surprising if the "old PL-15" (i.e. the missile seen in J-20's internal bays and on some J-11B) is based on the PL-12, but it does seem to be a new type of AAM. The PL-XX anti-AWACS missile shown here is completely unrelated.

If we tally up the recent sightings of "mystery missiles", we can concoct a fairly complete picture:
- PL-12: original version in service
- PL-15 (or PL-12B/C/D?): the "old PL-15" spotted on J-20 & J-11B
- PL-XX (or the real PL-15): this mystery missile

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## Deino

Indeed ... exactly my idea ! 

But why do You think that this missile is not related to the "PL-XX anti-AWACS missile shown here" ??


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Indeed ... exactly my idea !
> 
> But why do You think that this missile is not related to the "PL-XX anti-AWACS missile shown here" ??



I didn't make my post clear, my apologies.

I do think that this is a PL-XX "anti-AWACS" missile; I'm just pointing out that this missile is distinct from the PL-15, which is likely a derivative of the PL-12 but still a new development nonetheless.

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## 帅的一匹

@Horus can JF17 carry this new AAM?


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## grey boy 2

Some comparison of the new missile

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## grey boy 2

*infra-red search and track* (*IRST*) system; from 1st generation on J-11B to 2nd generation on J-10B,C, J-15,J-16
J-15,J-16与J-10B/C上的红外线搜索跟踪仪(IRST)对比。可以看出它们虽有细微差别但总体来说都属于第二代国产IRST,其搜索距离灵敏度抗干扰能力均比Su-27上OLS-27有较大提高。而J-11B上的IRST则无保护罩为第一代国产IRST,相当于OLS-27的山寨版因此已经落后。（来源：jetfight2000）











不需要的时候光电头旋转180度藏到里面,需要的时候再转出来在左右90度的范围内进行扫描和跟踪。








J-11B 1st generation IRST

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Some comparison of the new missile




But this "comparison" is way off, it shows at bet the configuration in comparison, but surely not the size. This new PL-XX will never fit the J-20's bay.

Deino

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## Deino

Just another detail I noticed in regard to this secret missile:

The pylon to which this missile is adapted is - or at least looks very much like - an AKU-58 launch rail, which is commonly used only for AGMs like the Ch-29, Ch-31, Ch-58 ... but never before with a AAM.

Could this be a hint for its intented role??

Deino

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## Deino

The Eagle said:


> Well, IMO (I may be wrong) but J-10 is in AA mode that carrying AAM on external pylon while the POD is shifted to the inner pylon (I think it depends on the role that AC flies and holds the POD). Also, in below pictures, the POD is showing the side inlet thing pointed backwards, displayed with JFT and the same can be noticed on JH-7A (your post # 1346) wing pylon while the POD with J-10B is placed with side inlet thing pointed to forward or may be it is wrongly placed but in your last quoted post #1348, the same side inlet thing is again pointing forward.




Here's another image of this new "store" but this time together with a KG600 ECM-pod ... now I'm again sure that this new pod is bigger.

Deino

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Deino said:


> Just another detail I noticed in regard to this secret missile:
> 
> The pylon to which this missile is adapted is - or at least looks very much like - an APU-58 launch rail, which is commonly used only for AGMs like the Ch-29, Ch-31, Ch-58 ... but never before with a AAM.
> 
> Could this be a hint for its intented role??
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 354449


.

Teacher-man,

In order to understand the true role of this new missile we need to see the PLAAF doctorine in the immediate theatre... it is not about superiority or dominance... it is all about Area Denial... 

So this one big fella can/will add another layer to the PLAAF/PLAN capability in AC/AD strategy. 

If one has to dare an educated guess... the missile is multi-purpose... 

Only time will tell which way the wind blows.

Regardless, PLA is becoming more transparent, which is a good thing for all of us. Especially, for you! So you can write good pieces.

Enjoy your evening.

.

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## The Eagle

Deino said:


> Here's another image of this new "store" but this time together with a KG600 ECM-pod ... now I'm again sure that this new pod is bigger.
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 354537



Good find Sir as it is prominent being bigger than KG-600, and if I am not wrong (I could be as well), by the size it seems like cannot be installed other than under belly because being more wide and seems heavy than the missiles shown on right and even left side. I mean it is big and huge one or the camera angle may be. 

Still, in the same picture, KG600 looks like can be carried by the wing pylon instead of this new Mystery POD. 

Your opinion on this one?


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Just another detail I noticed in regard to this secret missile:
> 
> The pylon to which this missile is adapted is - or at least looks very much like - an APU-58 launch rail, which is commonly used only for AGMs like the Ch-29, Ch-31, Ch-58 ... but never before with a AAM.
> 
> Could this be a hint for its intented role??
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 354449



You raise an interesting point, Deino. This missile could be the rumored PL-16 anti-radiation weapon.

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## Deino

Thank You guys !


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## j20blackdragon

PL-15

- active radar guided AAM
- >300km range
- semi-ballistic trajectory, 30km midcourse altitude

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## j20blackdragon

PL-15

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## grey boy 2

J-16 batch 2, 7th plane (2批07架歼16)

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> J-16 batch 2, 7th plane (2批07架歼16)




Would be interesting to know how many aircraft are manufactured in batch 01 ? The biggest number of a J-11B-batch was 05-20 and 06-18 (as well as 06-01 & 06-15), for the J-15 the highest number of batch 01 was c/n 01-10 and for a J-11BS the highest number is 03-21 ??

Deino


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## Deino

Deino said:


> Here's another image of this new "store" but this time together with a KG600 ECM-pod ... now I'm again sure that this new pod is bigger.
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 354537




Seems as if I was correct; Huitong calls this pod the KG800

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.de/p/attack-aircraft.html#JH-7A.

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## cirr

We need a dedicated threat for Chinese bombers

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## Akasa

cirr said:


> We need a dedicated threat for Chinese bombers



You mean, you need another thread for artists' representations.

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## cirr

Next generation AWACS and boom type air refueling tanker in development

http://wap.cannews.com.cn/index.php?a=viewa&c=49&id=161382

Both Y-20 derivatives?

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## Deino

Some incredible new images showing the participants of the PLAAF Red Sword 2016 exercise on 17.11.16 at Dingxin.

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Some incredible new images showing the participants of the PLAAF Red Sword 2016 exercise on 17.11.16 at Dingxin.
> 
> View attachment 358888
> View attachment 358889
> View attachment 358890
> View attachment 358891
> View attachment 358892



That's quite a nice lineup (great find by the way). I wonder if the J-16 & J-10B/C were simulating advanced European/American aircraft in OPFOR exercises.


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## GiantPanda

J-20 at an aggressor exercise like Red Sword already?!

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## yusheng

the "most powerful MIg21" in China

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## Deino

Very nice ... J-7G from the 15. Division !


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## Akasa

Cannon fodder for the F-15/16/18/22/35, Rafale, Typhoon, and Gripen. These should be replaced ASAP with low-cost 4th generation fighters (I'd imagine that their reliability is also questionable at this age).


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## Deino

These images were already posted showing the facility at XAC (Y-20, H-6K) ... but there are also some JH-7A.

http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1848131-1-1.html

... so is the JH-7A still in production or are these refurbished aircraft??
If Yes, I find it curious that we haven't seen any additional Regiment besides the 126., Brigade.


Deino


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## 帅的一匹

SinoSoldier said:


> Cannon fodder for the F-15/16/18/22/35, Rafale, Typhoon, and Gripen. These should be replaced ASAP with low-cost 4th generation fighters (I'd imagine that their reliability is also questionable at this age).


Nope, these J7 will be good for dealing with India.

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## Beast

SinoSoldier said:


> Cannon fodder for the F-15/16/18/22/35, Rafale, Typhoon, and Gripen. These should be replaced ASAP with low-cost 4th generation fighters (I'd imagine that their reliability is also questionable at this age).


They are not J-7 build in the early 90s. You can imagine BAF , Nigeria just received them few years ago. They are very reliable as long as spare and good servicing is available.

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## grey boy 2



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## The Eagle

Anyone with more details...?



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/808996632255692800

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## grey boy 2

The Eagle said:


> Anyone with more details...?
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/808996632255692800








Same news from Chinese source

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## Deino

What an impressive flightline at Dingxin AB during PLAAF Red Sword 2016 exercise - 17.11.16 !

see: http://ww1.sinaimg.cn/large/798ad1c4jw1faqmw4lperj21k881eb2a.jpg

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## grey boy 2

Proof of Japanese F-15 interrupting PLAAF routine exercise on 12/10/2016 morning


















unveiled, its so close that Japanese pilot was visible
12月10日上午，中国空军飞机经宫古海峡空域赴西太平洋进行例行性远海训练，日本自卫队出动1批2架F-15战斗机对中方飞机实施近距离干扰。最新曝光的视频显示，日军939号F-15战机离我军机距离非常近，甚至能清楚看到对方的飞行员。

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## 帅的一匹

Shoot it down

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> Shoot it down




For what sake ??? And provoke an international crises ??

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## gambit

grey boy 2 said:


> Proof of Japanese F-15 interrupting PLAAF routine exercise on 12/10/2016 morning


That is not an F-15.



grey boy 2 said:


> unveiled, its so close that Japanese pilot was visible
> 12月10日上午，中国空军飞机经宫古海峡空域赴西太平洋进行例行性远海训练，日本自卫队出动1批2架F-15战斗机对中方飞机实施近距离干扰。最新曝光的视频显示，日军939号F-15战机离我军机距离非常近，甚至能清楚看到对方的飞行员。


That is not an F-15.


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## DCS

Keep the junk off the technical and sticky threads. 

@Deino @siegecrossbow Time to nip it in the bud.

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## grey boy 2

gambit said:


> That is not an F-15.
> 
> 
> That is not an F-15.


No one said it was, thats the PLAAF SU-30MKK escorting the bomber, check out the pictures again



DCS said:


> Keep the junk off the technical and sticky threads.
> 
> @Deino @siegecrossbow Time to nip it in the bud.



Unfortunately he has a "licence to troll" off topic rants at will without consequences as long as his lip service works wonder for Deino

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## Deino

*Guys ... STOT, STOP immediately with these off-topic rants and even more ideology-infected posts ! 

@grey boy 2 
By the way here has no-one a certain given right - esp. not sanctioned my any moderator - to post politically infected BS but some still have to work for their livings and as such a deletion only after about 30 minutes is IMO quite a quick deletion !*


Deino


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> For what sake ??? And provoke an international crises ??


Because they fired jamming flares adjacent to our flight path, very provocative and unprofessional acts.

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## Zarvan




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## samsara

Zarvan said:


>


Caption please... what are these? anyhow the missile is big.


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## grey boy 2

From @解放军空军 PLAAF, H-6K bomber took a picture with Taiwan Yushan at the back ground (解放军空军发布疑似轰-6K与台湾玉山合影) 




12月16日晚，解放军空军官方微博@空军发布发表图片，并配发文字“周末，分享一幅很有意义的照片！”。照片中显示轰-6K战略轰炸机正在云上飞行，远处可以看到两座相邻的山峰。从山峰形状看，这很可能是台湾南投县境内的玉山主峰，其标高为3952米，距离海岸线50公里。从照片中“玉山”南北两峰位置关系看，图中的轰炸机正在由北向南飞行，表明这是解放军空军编队11月25日环绕台湾飞行演训时所拍摄的照片。

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Caption please... what are these? anyhow the missile is big.




Even more, why an old image of an old H-6K carrying an even older KD-63 ??

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## Zhu Rong Zheng Yang

Patrolling SCS with only 2 Su-30MKK is showing weakness as if PRC is afraid of war against ( americese + Japanese ). 

I hope PLAAF patrol along the SCS 9 Dashes Lines at minimum 3x per month with at least 3 H-6K accompanied by KJ-200 AWACS and 10 Su-30MKK and Y-8 EW aircraft and H-6 Tankers.

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## grey boy 2

grey boy 2 said:


> Proof of Japanese F-15 interrupting PLAAF routine exercise on 12/10/2016 morning https://i.imgur.com/gXP5rEy.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> unveiled, its so close that Japanese pilot was visible
> 12月10日上午，中国空军飞机经宫古海峡空域赴西太平洋进行例行性远海训练，日本自卫队出动1批2架F-15战斗机对中方飞机实施近距离干扰。最新曝光的视频显示，日军939号F-15战机离我军机距离非常近，甚至能清楚看到对方的飞行员。



More on the Japanese F-15 provoking incident

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## grey boy 2

Nice HD pictures of JH-7A fighter bomber

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## grey boy 2

Nice HD pictures of JH-7A fighter bomber

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## grey boy 2

The 1st Y-9 delivered to the PLA (首架运-9型运输机正式列装陆军航空兵部队)

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## 帅的一匹

Zhu Rong Zheng Yang said:


> Patrolling SCS with only 2 Su-30MKK is showing weakness as if PRC is afraid of war against ( americese + Japanese ).
> 
> I hope PLAAF patrol along the SCS 9 Dashes Lines at minimum 3x per month with at least 3 H-6K accompanied by KJ-200 AWACS and 10 Su-30MKK and Y-8 EW aircraft and H-6 Tankers.


We still don't have enough heavy tanker.

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## Deino

Another surprise ... H-6K + 36 250 kg bombs !!

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## j20blackdragon

Deino said:


> Another surprise ... H-6K + 36 250 kg bombs !!
> 
> View attachment 363941



H-6K + 36 250 kg bombs and possibly more in the bomb bay.





JH-7A + 22 250 kg bombs





Imagine if these bombs were satellite-guided SDB.

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## grey boy 2

Some rumors specification of H-20 bomber (关于H20) translation will be out of my ability, perhaps some other Chinese member can help?

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## pzkilo

grey boy 2 said:


> Some rumors specification of H-20 bomber (关于H20) translation will be out of my ability, perhaps some other Chinese member can help?


Dude，This one is fake, it is a website article. 晨枫在空军之翼的文章，有人故弄玄虚做成这样。

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## grey boy 2

pzkilo said:


> Dude，This one is fake, it is a website article. 晨枫在空军之翼的文章，有人故弄玄虚做成这样。


Thats why i stated "rumor" because i'm not sure as well


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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bomber (新年首飞 “飞豹”穿云破雾)

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## Deino

Finally a clear image of a J-8DF from the 2. Division with full serial numbers and the new Eagle tail art ...

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## j20blackdragon

j20blackdragon said:


> H-6K + 36 250 kg bombs and possibly more in the bomb bay.
> View attachment 364002

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## cirr

Airborne pointing, acquisition and tracking(PAT) system for space laser communication developed

Long distance(144km) high-speed(2.5Gb) communication between two Y-12 planes accomplished

http://www.cqvip.com/read/read.aspx?id=669327777

Highly secure and anti-electromagnetic interference

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## Beast

j20blackdragon said:


> View attachment 367500


I am sure H-6K can carry more than 6 LACM. Maybe 3 inside the weapon bay, 6 under wing pylon. That will make it 9 missile per trip. Quite impressive.

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## Place Of Space

"Red Sword" airforce drill in desert area.

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## Deino

Place Of Space said:


> "Red Sword" airforce drill in desert area.



They are from the Red Sword 2016 exercise ??


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## ahojunk

The following photographs were published yesterday.





A transport aircraft soars over the sky during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. The "Red Sword-2016", involving various arms of services from the Air Force, such as aviation, ground-to-air missile, radar, electronic countermeasure troops, aimed to beef up the troops' systematic combat capabilities. It is also one of the four key training brands of the PLA Air Force, along with the "Golden Dart", "Golden Helmet" and "Blue Shield". (81.cn/ Yang Jun)






A J-11 fighter jet taxies on the runway during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. (81.cn/ Yang Jun)






Pilots sit in the cockpit of their fighter jet and conduct the last minute checks before taking off during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. 
(81.cn/ Yang Jun)






Multi-types of aircraft taxi on the runway at a military training base during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. (81.cn/ Yang Jun)






J-11 fighter jets taxi toward the runway and prepare to take off successively from a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. (81.cn/ Yang Jun)






Fighter jets taxi toward the runway and take off successively from a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. 
(81.cn/ Yang Jun)






A KJ-2000 airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft taxies toward the runway at a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. (81.cn/ Yang Jun)






A KJ-2000 airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft taxies toward the runway at a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. 
(81.cn/ Yang Jun)

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## ahojunk

A KJ-200 airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft takes off from a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. 






Two J-10 fighter jets prepare to take off from a military airfield in formation during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. 






A JH-7 fighter bomber takes off for a sortie from a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016.






A JH-7 fighter bomber prepares to take off from a military airport for a sortie during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016.






Three JH-7 fighter bombers prepare to take off from a military airport in formation during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016. 






A J-11 fighter jet prepares to take off for a sortie from a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016.






A KJ-2000 (L) airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft and a KJ-200 AWE aircraft (R) taxi on the runway and prepare to take off from a military airport during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016.






A J-10 fighter jet taxies toward the runway as multi-type aircraft sit on the flightline during the "Red Sword-2016" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert on Nov. 10, 2016.

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## fgdi iuoy

China’s state-run Xinhua news agency has quoted the country’s Air Force Commander Ma Xiaotian as saying that Beijing is developing the next-generation long-range bombers. The report said that the remarks by General Ma confirmed the development of the “legendary H-20” bomber


Admiral Yin noted that China has three specific advantages in developing the H-20 bomber. First, the developers can derive stealth technology from the J-20 and J-31 fighters — two China built stealth fighters. Second, China has already manufactured large transport aircraft such as the Y-20 and C-919, which can yield know-how to build big-sized strategic bombers. Besides, the new generation bombers can be armed with cruise missiles, nuclear and other weapons, which are already available in the Chinese arsenal. As a result of these advantages in materials, design and weaponry, the time lines for developing the H-20 can be shortened, though a typical cycle for making strategic bombers is around 10 years


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## Deino

Seems as if someone quite diligently copied my book !

http://bbs.meyet.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=321328&page=4444#pid3764502

from http://www.harpia-publishing.com/?q=node/286/popup&view=detail !!

Should I now be offended, annoyed and angry or should I feel flattered? 

Deino

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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Seems as if someone quite diligently copied my book !
> 
> http://bbs.meyet.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=321328&page=4444#pid3764502
> 
> from http://www.harpia-publishing.com/?q=node/286/popup&view=detail !!
> 
> Should I now be offended, annoyed and angry or should I feel flattered?
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 369183
> View attachment 369184
> View attachment 369185
> View attachment 369186


I know the cheif editor of this magazine```


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## monitor

中国が第2基の超水平線レーダーを設置した ＞2基の超水平線レーダーの探知範囲




China set up the 2nd group Ultra Horizontal Line Radar> Detection Range of Two Super Horizontal Line Radars.

#*China* #*OTHB* coverage at 3000km. Notice entire Japan is covered with 60 degree arc.

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## Deino

rcrmj said:


> I know the cheif editor of this magazine```




Then send him my greetings ! and next time - if not already in this issue - I would be glad for a quote. Otherwise if he would be interested in anything else, just contact me !


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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Then send him my greetings ! and next time - if not already in this issue - I would be glad for a quote. Otherwise if he would be interested in anything else, just contact me !


will do, will do ``````


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## samsara

Deino said:


> Seems as if someone quite diligently copied my book !
> 
> http://bbs.meyet.com/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=321328&page=4444#pid3764502
> 
> from http://www.harpia-publishing.com/?q=node/286/popup&view=detail !!
> 
> Should I now be offended, annoyed and angry or should I feel flattered?
> 
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 369183
> View attachment 369184
> View attachment 369185
> View attachment 369186


I hope the Chinese translation from those pages in your book (in English language) will further help the book promotion (a kind of awareness) and its sale, in that sense you should feel flattered  due to the vast language gap it should pose no threat, imo. All the best for your works, Deino!

Note: I think if you have a shipping point from within Asia (SIN, MAS, HKG are good candidates) for printed copy, it will help reduce the shipping cost and increase sale likelihood.

EDIT: Wow! A FREE worldwide delivery from UK  quite different from Amazon
http://ukbooks.sg/en/book/Flashpoint-China-9780985455484

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## Deino

Thanks guys and if You noticed by that Smiley I'm indeed more flattered since imitation is the best form of flattery - and they copied it word for word. Even more - and especially since some here still don't think a foreigner can or even has the right to write anything on that topic, it seems as if that magazine accepted me as an authority on the topic.

Deino

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## Deino

rcrmj said:


> will do, will do ``````




Oh that would be brilliant !

Thanks for that. However my biggest concern (like Tom Cooper noted at ACIG) is that in a few months a certain US think tank or any other "specialist" like Dave Majumdar, David Ave or any other of the usual suspects finds this "Chinese copy" and uses it for an own publication based on his/her 'exclusive, first-hand, genuine Chinese source of reference with information of unprecedented quality' - without ever having even a trace of clue about the origin of all that info ... and a few months later it appears at RAND, Jamestown.org or whatever and that cannot even be described as 'frustrating' since my publications remain entirely unknown in these interesting circles in the USA as all their reference lists always show. 

Anyway, maybe someday ...

Deino

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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Oh that would be brilliant !
> 
> Thanks for that. However my biggest concern is that in a few months a certain US think tank or any other "specialist" like Dave Majumdar, David Ave or any other of the usual suspects finds this "Chinese copy" and uses it for an own publication based on his/her 'exclusive, first-hand, genuine Chinese source of reference with information of unprecedented quality' - without ever having even a trace of clue about the origin of all that info ... and a few months later it appears at RAND, Jamestown.org or whatever and that cannot even be described as 'frustrating' since my publications remain entirely unknown in these interesting circles in the USA as all their reference lists always show.
> 
> Anyway, maybe someday ...
> 
> Deino


well, you can always introduce yourself to Chinese defense forums (I mean the proper ones), find a guy knows Chinese, and to help you to post few of your original works and researches thats been 'un-lawfully quoted' by others, on those forums, then people will start getting to know you. As a member of CJDBY, I will always recommend it 

I stopped browsing any English China defense forums few years ago, as they dont have much substances, too many clueless fans or annoying trolls who have no knowledge of the field.

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A all weather training in Xinjiang

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## grey boy 2

New plane from (AVIC) flew yesterday, not sure what it is though? your thought? (沈飞的新鸟飞了)

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> New plane from (AVIC) flew yesterday, not sure what it is though? your thought? (沈飞的新鸟飞了)



Clearly a version of a Flanker and concerning the long sting surely not a naval version. So either a J-11, J-16 ?

Or - and now I'm speculating a bit - since the sting looks quite fat, a Su-34-look-alike ???

Deino

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/822421054014521344

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> New plane from (AVIC) flew yesterday, not sure what it is though? your thought? (沈飞的新鸟飞了)




Back again to this post ! Is there a certain reason why some assume this to be a new plane from SAC and not simply a J-11 of some version or a J-16 ???

It is clear as hell a Flanker or did I miss any certain detail?

Deino


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## AlyxMS

Deino said:


> Back again to this post ! Is there a certain reason why some assume this to be a new plane from SAC and not simply a J-11 of some version or a J-16 ???
> 
> It is clear as hell a Flanker or did I miss any certain detail?
> 
> Deino


The original post(from CJDBY) had the title "A new bird from SAC is in the air", and inside the post he said he took the pictures near SAC and nothing more.

The replies to that post are mostly people suggesting it's either a J-11 or J-16.

So the most likely case is it's a "newly manufactured" bird not a "new model". (Since it's at SAC) Either that or the OP just put "new" in the title for no apparent reason.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> I am sure H-6K can carry more than 6 LACM. Maybe 3 inside the weapon bay, 6 under wing pylon. That will make it 9 missile per trip. Quite impressive.


 

Regrettably not, since the KD-20 si a bit longer than the H-6K's weapons bay. I just only have my handy at hand but when I'm back home I post an imge from last yera clearly showing that it is impossible.

Anyway 6 ALCMs + a decent fuel load isn't that bad at all...


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## grey boy 2

Check out the plane at the back ground

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Check out the plane at the back ground




Yes, a KJ-2000 ... nothing special at all !?? Any info, where this image was taken ?


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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

18 major members of PLAAF arsenal (科技强军 中国空军)

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## grey boy 2

New Year greeting from AVIC 
Y-20 




J-15




FC-31




AG600




SD-10A SAM/天龙-50




Z-19




KJ-500




J-10

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## grey boy 2

JL-9




AG600 again




C-919




AV500W




Air refueling




强-5




AVIC family in picture




*祝大家鸡年一切顺利，加油，中国军工！*

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> New Year greeting from AVIC
> ...
> J-15




Would be interesting to know if this is a new-build J-15 and what's the currently highest number ?



rcrmj said:


> I know the cheif editor of this magazine```



A friend of mine was so kind to post a note at his Weibo-account, so that at least a few military fans in China will know the truth. BTW he noted that this magazine did not have a good reputation in the past due to its low quality, copy-and-paste articles... 

http://www.weibo.com/u/5596911390?refer_flag=1005055014_&is_all=1#_rnd1485599843964

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> AESA radar by (_CAS_; Chinese: 中国科学院)




Pardon, and I know right again I will get my bashings, but it is simply again an image posted without any reading !! Just to hype "China has a new AESA" !!! 

That's exactly why I beg so often to do some resaerch before posting.

But if You would have read properly - just read the sign itself - You would have noticed this AESA is from the *National Chung Shan Institute of Science and Technology; NCSIST*, which is the primary R&D institute for the Ministry of National Defence for *ROC/Taiwan*!!!

Even more the image shows clearly a F-16's radome and by the way the CAS, as the Chinese Academy of Sciences, to come out with something like a fighter AESA would be strange, even silly. An AESA You would expect for a specific defence/science institute with a given number, but not from the CAS as a whole.

Or am I wrong !??

Deino

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## jkroo

@grey boy 2 
Lol. Hey, bro. Your post style goes to celebration mode recently. 
Many R&D team members are very young. It's quite good.

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Pardon, and I know right again I will get my bashings, but it is simply again an image posted without any reading !! Just to hype "China has a new AESA" !!!
> 
> That's exactly why I beg so often to do some resaerch before posting.
> 
> But if You would have read properly - just read the sign itself - You would have noticed this AESA is from the *National Chung Shan Institute of Science and Technology; NCSIST*, which is the primary R&D institute for the Ministry of National Defence for *ROC/Taiwan*!!!
> 
> Even more the image shows clearly a F-16's radome and by the way the CAS, as the Chinese Academy of Sciences, to come out with something like a fighter AESA would be strange, even silly. An AESA You would expect for a specific defence/science institute with a given number, but not from the CAS as a whole.
> 
> Or am I wrong !??
> 
> Deino



Well, Taiwan is actually China too. But you're right. This thread is about PLAAF. Taiwan military should be put in their own thread.


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## samsara

*US, China Military Aircraft Have "Unsafe, Close Encounter" Over Contested Islands*

ZeroHedge, 2017-02-09

After years of 'close encounters' of the Russian-kind, it appears the US military has found a new nation to fly close to.







Nine months after China demanded US "immediately cease" spying near its borders...

"It must be pointed out that U.S. military planes frequently carry out reconnaissance in Chinese coastal waters, seriously endangering Chinese maritime security," China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei Hong told reporters, adding that *"we demand that the United States immediately cease this type of close reconnaissance activity to avoid having this sort of incident happening again."*​
CNN reports that two US defense officials confirmed that there was an *"unsafe" close encounter between a US Navy P-3 Orion aircraft and a Chinese surveillance aircraft Wednesday in the general vicinity of the contested Scarborough Shoal (referred as Huangyan Island 黄岩岛 by the Chinese) in the South China Sea.*





One official said *the Chinese plane was a People's Liberation Army Air Force KJ-200.*




CNN reports the *two planes flew within 1,000 feet of each other in the general vicinity of the contested Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea.*





A second official said that *the American P-3 had to alter course to ensure that there wasn't an aerial collision.*

A spokesperson for US Pacific Command, which oversees US troops in the region confirmed, the incident, calling it "unsafe" in a statement provided to CNN.

"The U.S. Navy P-3C was on a routine mission operating in accordance with international law," Maj. Rob Shuford said.

"The Department of Defense and US Pacific Command are always concerned about unsafe interactions with Chinese military forces," he added.

*"We will address the issue in appropriate diplomatic and military channels."*​
While the Navy considers the encounter to be "unsafe," it does not assess that any malign intent was behind the incident, though the event was considered serious enough to be raised up the chain of command.

The official called *encounters between US and Chinese aircraft like the one that took place Wednesday "extremely rare,"* noting that there were zero such incidents in 2015 and two in 2016. It was the first such instance of 2017.

We look forward to China's official response tomorrow, especially considering President Trump's positive outreach earlier today.

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## monitor

A midair-refuelable H-6 variant made its first time in the end of last year. http://www.pearvideo.com/video_1033880 






Air-launched ballistic missile under loaded?

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## cirr

monitor said:


> A midair-refuelable H-6 variant made its first time in the end of last year. http://www.pearvideo.com/video_1033880
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air-launched ballistic missile under loaded?



Yes, midair refuelable and ballistic/longlonglong range A2A missile launchable are the two main added features of the new H-6 variant.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> ... ballistic/longlonglong range A2A missile ....




LLLLR-AAM ??? I thought this is an anti-ship ballistic missile ?


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## cirr

Deino said:


> LLLLR-AAM ??? I thought this is an anti-ship ballistic missile ?



DF-16D is just one of possible payloads for the new H-6X.

It is no secret that China is developing a litany of very long range AAMs, some of which may have a striking distance in excess of 2000km. 

SAC to make 60+ heavy fighters this year. 

Mostly J-16.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> DF-16D is just one of possible payloads for the new H-6X.
> 
> It is no secret that China is developing a litany of very long range AAMs, some of which may have a striking distance in excess of 2000km.




Pardon, but just to be sure ! The DF-15/-16 are ballistic (ground-to-ground) missiles and not air-to-air missiles (AAM) !?
Does that mean there is a 2000km-range AAM-version of a DF-16 available or are both an option for the H-6X; the new ultra-long-range PL-XX AAM and/or the ballistic Anti-Ship missile based on a DF-16 ??

Sorry, but a 2000km-range AAM is the first time I hear about.

Deino


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## Deino

Not really sure, but it seems as if the 2016's Golden Helmet went to a J-10B-diver / J-10B-unit !??



> *2016年金头盔获得者*，之前网上小白瞎扯什么歼-10全输，看看杨朝辉那幅图----*歼-10B*。（共分五个组，聂健男和吴其君是苏-30机组）



#*89169 http://bbs.meyet.com/thread-321328-4459-1.html*


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Not really sure, but it seems as if the 2016's Golden Helmet went to a J-10B-diver / J-10B-unit !??
> 
> 
> 
> #*89169 http://bbs.meyet.com/thread-321328-4459-1.html*


This young man is a genius, I once saw his clips on CCTV.


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## samsara

monitor said:


> A midair-refuelable H-6 variant made its first time in the end of last year. http://www.pearvideo.com/video_1033880
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Air-launched ballistic missile under loaded?


Thanks. An interesting short clip of PLA bomber evolution within around six decades!
老兵不死：226秒讲述轰-6疯狂进化_帧察视频-梨视频官网-Pear Video 20170214
http://www.pearvideo.com/video_1033880

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## Beast

There is a reason why they called H-6K 战神！King of LLBVRAAM and king of precision strike stand off missile.

I am sure all current H-6K are easily upgraded to refuelable mode.

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## cirr

Air-Launched Weapons

*IDEX 2017: China's FT-12 glide bomb gets rocket booster*
*
Richard D Fisher Jr, Abu Dhabi* - IHS Jane's Defence Weekly

21 February 2017

China's rocket-boosted precision-guided glide bomb, the Fei Teng FT-12, was revealed at the IDEX show in Abu Dhabi by China Aerospace Long-March International Trade Co, Ltd (ALIT), the marketing arm of the China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation (CASC).

While the existence of an FT-12 glide bomb has been previously reported, this is the first time that it has been clearly stated that it is rocket-boosted.

An ALIT official told _Jane's_ at IDEX said this latest FT-12 variant was completed about one year ago and that a "Chinese customer" has only purchased a small quantity.

Looking to add value to their precision-guided bomb series, designers from the China Academy of Launch Technology added a "5-10 kg" rocket motor to the FT-12, according to an ALIT official.

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## 帅的一匹

Said Russia deliver 200 KH59-2 ASM to PLAAF for Su30MKK.

https://view.inews.qq.com/a/MIL2017022203801402

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> Said Russia deliver 200 KH59-2 ASM to PLAAF for Su30MKK.
> 
> https://view.inews.qq.com/a/MIL2017022203801402




That would make more sense ...


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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> Said Russia deliver 200 KH59-2 ASM to PLAAF for Su30MKK.
> 
> https://view.inews.qq.com/a/MIL2017022203801402



My Russian source however stated, this deal is about "Kalibr" antiship missile.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> My Russian source however stated, this deal is about "Kalibr" antiship missile.


Kalibr? Cruise missle?


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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> Kalibr? Cruise missle?




That's what he said.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> That's what he said.


I search it on Internet, no similar news found. Maybe he get wrong. The least we need is cruise missile.

I would rather believe China buy another 2 squadrons of Su35s.

Can Su35 load Calibr?

Maybe Russia doesn't share the source code of Su35, it may only load Russian weapons. It's understandable if this is the case. China has many USD reserve, just buy it.

@Denio can you please confirm with your Russian source that will Russi sell Tu 160 bomber to China?


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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> I search it on Internet, no similar news found. Maybe he get wrong. The least we need is cruise missile.
> 
> I would rather believe China buy another 2 squadrons of Su35s.
> 
> Can Su35 load Calibr?
> 
> Maybe Russia doesn't share the source code of Su35, it may only load Russian weapons. It's understandable if this is the case. China has many USD reserve, just buy it.
> 
> @Denio can you please confirm with your Russian source that will Russi sell Tu 160 bomber to China?




Tu-160 to China ???? who said so ??? Do You have a link ?

... I will ask, but that will never happen.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Tu-160 to China ???? who said so ??? Do You have a link ?
> 
> ... I will ask, but that will never happen.


We can pay good price! H20 bomber is under development, I don't know how far it goes.

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## Deino

So it's only a game of thought from You or is this a rumour circling thru the net ?

IMO NEVER regardless what China would or could pay.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> So it's only a game of thought from You or is this a rumour circling thru the net ?
> 
> IMO NEVER regardless what China would or could pay.


No one in China will say no to white Swan.

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> No one in China will say no to white Swan.



Sorry, but the point is: is this wish-full thinking on behalf of some Chinese or did You hear, the Russians offered it ?


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## yantong1980

As far I know the Russian 'forced' upgraded Tu-160 till PAKDA viable, so why don't China have same reason to stick to H-6 until H-20 ready, Wang? Maybe China can save their money for better thing, beside it seems odd if China buy upgraded 'White Swan' when good ol' H-6 still work well, in other side, (perhaps) somewhere H-20 plan still working out (this one also need funding to exist). Sorry Chinese member, just my opinion.

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> My Russian source however stated, this deal is about "Kalibr" antiship missile.



Perhaps for the Kilo class submarines?

====

By the time the Tu-160 would be delivered, the H-20 will be conducting flight tests.


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## WarFariX

@Deino SIR u work in air forces monthly too as this snap is from AFM march magazine

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## Deino

Yes ... I have to admit !

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/838729829830684672



> 53th Regiment, 18th Fighter Division PLAAF has been transmitted from Southern TC to Centeral TC.



http://www.81.cn/kj/2017-03/06/content_7514764.htm


... so these are the Changsha based SU-30MKK !? And is the 53rd Regiment only the beginning or another reorganisation?

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## JSCh

*J20 fighter jet, Xian H6 jet bomber and Xian Y20 transport aircraft officially enter service in PLA *
People's Daily, China
Published on Mar 9, 2017

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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Tu-160 to China ???? who said so ??? Do You have a link ?
> 
> ... I will ask, but that will never happen.


its a rummor back in 2006, forget about it, its a farce


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## samsara

PLA AIR FORCE EARLY WARNING DIVISION

空军某早期警戒师团 （YJ = 预警 = 早期警戒）
PLAAF Early Warning Division (YJ = be alarming = early warning)
*@OedoSoldier* 2017-03-10



















*The Division 同師团*

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## yusheng

Electroluminescent Light Strip

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## samsara

*Q-5 ground attack aircraft take off at dusk*

(China Military Online) 19:35, March 10, 2017





A Q-5 ground attack aircraft attached to an air force aviation regiment of the PLA Northern Theater Command taxis on
the runway during a flight training exercise in east China’s Shandong Province on March 8, 2017. (81.cn/ Yang Pan)





Drivers of the ground power vehicle have supper on the edge of runway and wait to supply electrical power to aircraft at any time as a Q-5 ground attack aircraft takes off for a sortie during a flight training exercise in east China’s Shandong Province on March 8, 2017. They are assigned to an air force aviation regiment of the PLA Northern Theater Command. (81.cn/ Yang Pan)





Maintenance technicians run away from the runway before a fighter jet takes off for a flight training exercise in
east China’s Shandong Province on March 8, 2017. They are assigned to an air force aviation regiment of 
the PLA Northern Theater Command. (81.cn/ Yang Pan)





A Q-5 ground attack aircraft attached to an air force aviation regiment of the PLA Northern Theater Command takes off
for a sortie during a flight training exercise in east China’s Shandong Province on March 8, 2017.





Two pilots walk to their Q-5 ground attack aircraft in preparation for a flight training exercise in east China’s Shandong Province on March 8, 2017. They are assigned to an air force aviation regiment of the PLA Northern Theater Command. (81.cn/ Yang Pan)





A pilot sits in the cockpit of his Q-5 ground attack aircraft prior to a flight training exercise in east China’s Shandong Province on March 8, 2017. He is assigned to an air force aviation regiment of the PLA Northern Theater Command. (81.cn/ Yang Pan)

http://en.people.cn/n3/2017/0310/c90000-9188813.html

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## samsara

Xian JH-7A
(_Jianjiji Hongzhaji 歼击机 轰炸机 – fighter-bomber, with precision air-to-surface capability_)

The JH-7A's general and deputy general designers were Tang Changhong (唐长红) and Wu Jieqin (吴介琴) respectively.




_@OedoSoldier 2017-03-22_

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## terranMarine

@samsara that picture is from Feb 17 , the text on the upper right is photoshoped away

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## samsara

terranMarine said:


> @samsara that picture is from Feb 17 , the text on the upper right is photoshoped away


Thanks for notifying, sorry to all, just don't know that _@OedoSoldier_ can be deceived by such photoshoped pic too_ 


 https://twitter.com/i/web/status/844554418309648386_Q-5 decommissioned this year
The Nanchang Q-5 (强-5), is a jet ground-attack aircraft, its main role is close air support.
_



_


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## Deino

samsara said:


> Thanks for notifying, sorry to all, just don't know that _@OedoSoldier_ can be deceived by such photoshoped pic too_
> 
> 
> https://twitter.com/i/web/status/844554418309648386_Q-5 decommissioned this year
> The Nanchang Q-5 (强-5), is a jet ground-attack aircraft, its main role is close air support.
> _
> 
> 
> 
> _



Uiii ... but that would be 7 Regiments or Brigades within one year !?


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## samsara

*Late March 21st, 2017 - Helicopter Battalion of West Xi'an Academy of PLA Air Force* conducted night flying training, the trainees were improving situational awareness, tactical use of flying cadets. The pictures were of that night, manned aircraft took off quickly. - Source

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## samsara

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/844843449731862530*19 years ago Chengdu J-10 （歼-10）made its very 1st flight.*





J-10 is a lightweight multirole fighter aircraft capable of all-weather operation, configured with a delta wing and canard design, with fly-by-wire flight controls, and produced by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC).

​Some _old_ photos of J-10 - *@xinfengcao* 2017.03.24

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## samsara

*More at the 19-Year Anniversary of the Maiden Flight of Chengdu J-10 （歼-10）*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845032626041901059

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## Deino

Thanks for reposting my post !

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Thanks for reposting my post !


Must be a little bit EXTRAVAGANZA for the *19-YEAR ANNIVERSARY* 

In today's measurement of the *fast-paced world* whereas people tend to like everything be instant, quick quick quick... a period of *19 YEARS* seems to be in quite remote distant 

Indeed we at this PDF Column should thank you, Deino, for the cool, good remembrance pics of a decade-long event! 

#Correct the typo: 19 i/o 10 years

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## Deino

Not surely how You come to the 10th anniversary, but the J-10's maiden flight occurred at 23rd March 1998 ... so not 10 years' anniversary but *19th "birthday"* !

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## samsara

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845525268278108161





*Dr. Yang Wei, the aircraft designer of the JF-17 Thunder and J-20 Stealth Fighter receives Pakistan's highest civil award on 2017-03-23.*

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/845342051319320578

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## ChineseToTheBone

This might be a silly question, but which aircraft designed by Yang Wei is more capable? The one that is currently operated by China (J-10) or the one now in service with Pakistan (JF-17)?

To a layman such as myself, they are both simply fourth-generation lightweight multirole fighter jets.

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## 帅的一匹

ChineseToTheBone said:


> This might be a silly question, but which aircraft designed by Yang Wei is more capable? The one that is currently operated by China (J-10) or the one now in service with Pakistan (JF-17)?
> 
> To a layman such as myself, they are both simply fourth-generation lightweight multirole fighter jets.


J10 is medium weight and JF17 is lightweight.

J10 has faster speed and more range than JF17. JF17 is one of the best platform of its category.

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## ChineseToTheBone

Thanks for the clarification! I saw the J-10 referred to online as being a lightweight multirole aircraft, so I guess I was misinformed by that.


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## grey boy 2

Pictures released by PLAAF

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## yusheng



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## Windjammer

Pakistan Air Force and PLAAF Top Guns during a joint exercise.

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## rcrmj

*Big Issue! Big Issue! Read all about it!*

Inside talks: PLAAF sent newly bought SU-35 to various bases to test its true capability.....
conditions of one of the drills:
1. no system support from both sides
2. two scenarios (planned combat situations, BVR and WVR; random encounter scenarios)

Participants: SU-35 vs 'a B variant' (most of us speculated it was J-10B)

*Results: the B variant has significant advantage over SU-35 at BVR, and the latter has slight advantage over the B variant at WVR *

that's not the end of the drill, they will keep sending SU-35 to other bases to drill against other PLAAF's planes, *including J-20 *and by the end of all of that, they will decide to buy more SU-35 or not.

p.s. that's my own interpretation of the conversation or the 'post' so just want leave it like that.

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## terranMarine

rcrmj said:


> *Big Issue! Big Issue! Read all about it!*
> 
> Inside talks: PLAAF sent newlly bought Su-35 to various bases to test its true capability.....
> conditions of one of the drills:
> 1. no system support from both sides
> 2. two scenarios (planned combat situations, BVR and WVR; random encounter scenarios)
> 
> participants: Su-35 VS. 'a B variant' (most of us speculated it was J-10B)
> 
> *resoults: the B variant has significent advantage over Su-35 at BVR, and the latter has slight advantage over the B variant at WVR ````*
> 
> thats not the end of the drill, they will keep sending Su-35 to other bases to dill against other PLAAF's planes, *including J-20*````and by the end of all of that, they will decide to buy more Su-35 or not```
> 
> p.s thats my own interpretation of the conversation or the 'post'````so just want leave it like that```



HOLY F*CK

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## pzkilo

rcrmj said:


> *Big Issue! Big Issue! Read all about it!*
> 
> Inside talks: PLAAF sent newly bought SU-35 to various bases to test its true capability.....
> conditions of one of the drills:
> 1. no system support from both sides
> 2. two scenarios (planned combat situations, BVR and WVR; random encounter scenarios)
> 
> Participants: SU-35 vs 'a B variant' (most of us speculated it was J-10B)
> 
> *Results: the B variant has significant advantage over SU-35 at BVR, and the latter has slight advantage over the B variant at WVR *
> 
> that's not the end of the drill, they will keep sending SU-35 to other bases to drill against other PLAAF's planes, *including J-20 *and by the end of all of that, they will decide to buy more SU-35 or not.
> 
> p.s. that's my own interpretation of the conversation or the 'post' so just want leave it like that.


Dude,This is a rumor, It's not been confirmed yet. And somebody said this rumor is not true.


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## rcrmj

pzkilo said:


> Dude,This is a rumor, It's not been confirmed yet. And somebody said this rumor is not true.


there few versions, someone said its J20 vs Su35, someone said its Su35 and J20 participated in big drills, and some said J20 wiped Su35 arse etc````so what I am saying is, according to them, Su35 were tested against 'a B variant', thats it ```surely any rumor has its logical touch to reality, but as far as I know, it wont be likely to have 35 and 20 to participate in any big drills, or 20 and 35 has faced each other at any exercises```

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## lcloo

pzkilo said:


> Dude,This is a rumor, It's not been confirmed yet. And somebody said this rumor is not true.


Lol, one such posting was dated April 1st.


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## samsara

*Wanting to join USAF league, China testing portable fabric shelters*

By Vinayak Bhat - Observer Research Foundation (ORF) - April 03, 2017





Source: Papas Doc/CC BY 2.0

Portable aircraft shelters have been used world over by expeditionary forces, especially the USA. A large number of them were observed on Afghanistan soil when USAF moved in after 9/11. Today many countries in the Middle East and Europe are using them to provide all weather protection to their aircraft. These fabric shelters also provide good protection from overhead observation especially from spy satellites. They provide cheap and quick alternative to permanent aircraft shelters for all weather protection during expeditionary assignments.

China has recently been observed trialling some kind of permanent fabric shelter at the Kashgar airport, Xinjiang as seen in the image of October 2016. The size of this hangar used is 30m in width and 60m in length.






The image of November 2014 suggests that it is being used to shelter at least two Winglong-I medium altitude long endurance (MALE) UCAVs. The trial of the shelter covering a long period of over two years indicates its permanent nature.






It is interesting to note that the UCAVs possibly were also undergoing trials there enduring maximum altitude and long endurance. They are observed with ground control station (GCS) and other support vehicles.






Similar hangars were also been observed under construction in November 2016 at Nanyuan airbase in Beijing which houses a fleet of VIP and special reconnaissance aircraft of 34th Transport Division. These shelters seem to be in second stage of construction where possible compressed aluminium structure can be observed.






The earlier image of September 2016 displays base preparations for possible aluminium poles. Preparations for other structures being carried out can also be seen in the images.






The modular construction seems to afford ease of installation and dismantling. The basic structure appears to be compressed aluminium alloy (light, stainless and durable) with tensile fabric cover. Different sizes in ground preparation markings at Nanyuan seem to suggest that these fabric shelters can be customised for different aircraft.

Kashgar seems to have been chosen as a location for trials to test the shelter fabric in harsh and extreme conditions of Xinjiang weather. The winters and summers of Xinjiang are known for extremes of wind speeds, snow and Sun with maximum UV effects. Nanyuan being a VIP aircraft base seems to have been chosen as the location for first large scale installations.

China’s fast growing PLAAF’s requirement of testing these portable aircraft shelters for all weather protection of its aircraft vividly indicate its global ambitions.

_________________

About ORF

_Set up in 1990, ORF seeks to lead and aid policy thinking towards building a strong and prosperous India in a fair and equitable world. It helps discover and inform India’s choices, and carries Indian voices and ideas to forums shaping global debates. ORF provides non-partisan, independent analyses and inputs on matters of security, strategy, economy, development, energy, resources and global governance to diverse decision-makers (governments, business communities, academia, civil society). ORF’s mandate is to conduct in-depth research, provide inclusive platforms and invest in tomorrow’s thought leaders today. (New Delhi)_

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## pzkilo

rcrmj said:


> there few versions, someone said its J20 vs Su35, someone said its Su35 and J20 participated in big drills, and some said J20 wiped Su35 arse etc````so what I am saying is, according to them, Su35 were tested against 'a B variant', thats it ```surely any rumor has its logical touch to reality, but as far as I know, it wont be likely to have 35 and 20 to participate in any big drills, or 20 and 35 has faced each other at any exercises```


It's fake, confirmed. pupu微博上说原作者貌似已说自己是瞎编的。


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## rcrmj

pzkilo said:


> It's fake, confirmed. pupu微博上说原作者貌似已说自己是瞎编的。


pupu 是说4月1号的那个文章是假的，随便说说的。那天他说T-50项目暂停了·····还有上面讨论的是J20和Su35的对抗测试是假的

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bomber, can anyone identify where this picture was taken?

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## ChineseToTheBone

rcrmj said:


> Participants: SU-35 vs 'a B variant' (most of us speculated it was J-10B)
> 
> *Results: the B variant has significant advantage over SU-35 at BVR, and the latter has slight advantage over the B variant at WVR *


If that really was the case, I might have underestimated the capabilities of the J-10B. Perhaps it really could be up there with the Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Then again, it might also mean Russian technology has very much fallen behind over the past decades. In any case, was there any possibility of the variant participating having been a J-11B instead?

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bomber

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## grey boy 2

Fully loaded JH-7A fighter bomber elephant walk before patrolling mission at the SCS(解放军飞豹战机大象漫步！满挂载巡航南海岛礁)

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## Zarvan



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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Fully loaded JH-7A fighter bomber elephant walk before patrolling mission at the SCS(解放军飞豹战机大象漫步！满挂载巡航南海岛礁)



Esp. interesting since it shows an operational YJ-83KH !

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## rcrmj

ChineseToTheBone said:


> If that really was the case, I might have underestimated the capabilities of the J-10B. Perhaps it really could be up there with the Dassault Rafale and the Eurofighter Typhoon. Then again, it might also mean Russian technology has very much fallen behind over the past decades. In any case, was there any possibility of the variant participating having been a J-11B instead?


not sure, I guessed its J-10B

but anyway, J-10B is a lethal fighter, I wont lose to any of current 4 or 4+ fighterss, it all comes down to the pilot and tactics. But what we are eagerly looking for is the beast *J-10D* ```muhahahaha

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## Akasa

rcrmj said:


> not sure, I guessed its J-10B
> 
> but anyway, J-10B is a lethal fighter, I wont lose to any of current 4 or 4+ fighterss, it all comes down to the pilot and tactics. But what we are eagerly looking for is the beast *J-10D* ```muhahahaha



Any news regarding J-10D?


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## WarFariX

yusheng said:


> Electroluminescent Light Strip
> View attachment 384498
> View attachment 384499
> View attachment 384500
> View attachment 384501
> View attachment 384502
> View attachment 384503
> View attachment 384504
> 
> 
> View attachment 384505
> View attachment 384506
> View attachment 384507
> View attachment 384508
> View attachment 384509
> View attachment 384510
> 
> 
> View attachment 384512
> View attachment 384515
> View attachment 384517


purpose of this strip?


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## Deino

MarvellousThunder@PDC said:


> purpose of this strip?




Formation flight during night ops !

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bomber

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I think H7 should be retired with all other aging planes such as J8...不堪一击 and replace by more capable J-16...


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Not sure about the age of the birds but these do look quite lovely machines
Just wondering how come we never got these instead of F-7 or our mirage fleet

Impressive birds , specially with the arrival of enanched variants with new Avionics / Engine 





Another Chinese Product that is very unique 

J10 Servies , JH-7A, J11 etc all very unique planes and Chinese have continued to learn and adapt to newer designs

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## rcrmj

SinoSoldier said:


> Any news regarding J-10D?


I just know there is a J-10D project going on, but I dont have any details of it`````

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## grey boy 2

Deino said:


> Esp. interesting since it shows an operational YJ-83KH !

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## grey boy 2

H-6K bomber

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## ChineseToTheBone

I read that China's vast fleet of aging J-7 and J-8 interceptors might end up being converted into drones to serve as wingmen not unlike the prospective role for America's fourth generation birds. Hopefully that will be the case, as then we could put those high numbers into use.

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bomber

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## samsara

grey boy 2 said:


> JH-7A fighter bomber


I wonder what's the function of the parachute-like shape of white rope at the missile in this picture?

Got it, aerial mine 
Thanks! And what impressive pictures of JH-7A fighter bomber of your post

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## grey boy 2

samsara said:


> I wonder what's the function of the parachute-like shape of white rope at the missile in this picture? TIA.


Aerial mine, my guess

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## Deino

Yes indeed ... a mine.

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A fighter bomber

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## grey boy 2

Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) "Outlook 2017" (中航工业2017畅想 撸起袖子加油干)








When will "J-15" deploy on our 2nd aircraft carrier patrolling, defending our territories?




When will our J-20 formation combat ready?




When will Y-20 fly over our beautiful SCS islands?




When will AG600 be part of our national urgent supporting system




Lets all work harder to fulfill our "Chinese Dreams"

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## cirr

New PLA Paratroopers Corps: the 127th brigade, the 128th, the 130th, the 131th, the 133th, the 134th, special combat brigade, support brigade and aviation brigade.

The Training Regiment and the Drivers Training Regiment will be integrated with Guilin Papatroopers College at a later stage.

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## grey boy 2

KJ-500 AWAC (空警500)

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## rcrmj

does anyone know that Chinese version of E2C will unveil its true face in few years time`````muhaha
few years ago they overturned the previous design, that event put negative shade on the projec, luckly under those people's endless effort, they started over again, and no more than two years, you lot will witness the result``please dont throw stones at me if you lot see it in June 2019

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## grey boy 2

H-6K with 2 "YJ-63" land attack cruise missiles
Description: The YJ-63 is an improved air-launched land attack cruise missile being developed by China. The missile featuring standoff range and precision strike capabilities.

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## Deino

Can anyone help me with a translation !! What kind of celebration is this ?

Thanks in advance,
Deino


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## nang2

Deino said:


> Can anyone help me with a translation !! What kind of celebration is this ?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Deino
> 
> View attachment 394520


The banner just focuses on brotherhood.


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## Deino

Thanks


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## grey boy 2

H-6K bomber

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## grey boy 2

China new TU-154 "Electronic reconnaissance aircraft" unveiled 
中国新一架图154电子侦察机亮相：就爱调戏日本

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A bomber fighter: Night Shift (飞豹夜航)

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## grey boy 2

2 KJ500 AEW&CS were deployed for SCS alongside with 2 specialties planes (中国将最新空警500部署海南岛 另有两架特种机)
The KJ500, the latest generation of AEW&CS of aircraft, “is earmarked to provide early radar warnings to combat troops to give them an edge in potential future battles.”

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## grey boy 2

The new "H-6KH" long range bomber navalized version undergoing development of Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation 







据悉H-6KH主要改进为加装YJ-12超音速远程反舰导弹及与之配套的火控系统。为此强化了H-6KH机载火控雷达的对海攻击模式，并对火控软件进行了升级，安装了新的数据链。研判H-6KH最多可以携挂6枚YJ-12反舰弹，可对敌舰发动饱和攻击，为此在后机身腹部加挂一个类似KD-63空地弹的数据链吊舱。同时H-6KH也保留了携挂较老式的YJ-83K反舰弹的能力，从而更好地与海军现役装备所衔接。




H-6KH的另一个重大改进在于在外侧机翼增加一对挂架，用于携挂KG600/800大型自卫电战吊舱。这 进一步增强了H-6KH的电子战能力，使其能够对敌远程空中警戒系统(如E-2C预警机)进行有效压制，从而提高了战场生存能力。早在2015年5月份西方卫星图片就显示阎良西飞机场上一架H-6K外侧机翼加挂了电战吊舱，研判该机很可能就是前一年首飞的H-6KH的原型机。




*This may be the H-6KH prototype *
H-6KH携挂的YJ-12为中国海军新一代大型空对舰导弹。据推测该弹巡航速度为2.5-3.5马赫，通常采用低-高-低飞行剖面，最大射程>300公里，战斗部重250公斤，一发命中即能使一艘5000吨级战舰失去作战能力。YJ-12采用初中段惯导+北斗+载机指令修正+末段主动制导雷达制导的方式，具有较强的抗电磁干扰能力。据悉YJ-12还具有末段蛇形机动能力，能最大限度地规避敌海拉姆近程舰空导弹和密集阵近防炮的拦截，具有较高的命中率。虽然目前YJ-12可以由改装后的H-6G导弹攻击机携挂，但该机依然存在着火控系统老旧，缺乏电子战能力，载弹量不足(2枚)，航程较短等缺陷，无法充分发挥YJ-12反舰弹的巨大威力。因此从这个角度来讲海军急需一款可以取代H-6G的远程导弹攻击机。
得益于强大的火控雷达以及数据链，使H-6KH可以充分发挥YJ-12超过300公里的射程优势，从而具备了从敌舰防空区域外发动饱和攻击的能力，这无疑将对美日韩海军配备了宙斯盾系统的大型战舰构成实质性威胁。 H-6KH是否能取代老式的H-6G成为海军新一代远程导弹攻击机，老TW们正拭目以待。

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## Deino

School-trip to SAC's Y-9 factory .... 

I think I found my next trip destination: CAC's factory or SAC with my class !

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## Beast

Deino said:


> School-trip to SAC's Y-9 factory ....
> 
> I think I found my next trip destination: CAC's factory or SAC with my class !
> 
> View attachment 397100
> View attachment 397101


Sorry, the factory visit is only for PRC citizen. Foreigner are not allowed unless VIP approved by CPC.


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## Deino

Beast said:


> Sorry, the factory visit is only for PRC citizen. Foreigner are not allowed unless VIP approved by CPC.



That was a joke.

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## Sage

grey boy 2 said:


> JH-7A bomber fighter: Night Shift (飞豹夜航)


I always wish that Pakistan would procure a squadron of it for Naval role.

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## terranMarine

Deino said:


> School-trip to SAC's Y-9 factory ....
> 
> I think I found my next trip destination: CAC's factory or SAC with my class !
> 
> View attachment 397100
> View attachment 397101


 that was a nice joke. If you were given the opportunity you would literally camp there watching the daily progress of PLAN/PLAAF, ain't moving your arse anywhere just admiring it every second, patting the soft metal and polishing it with your tongue  that's the kind of love you have for these precious <- lord of the ring reference

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## Deino

terranMarine said:


> that was a nice joke. If you were given the opportunity you would literally camp there watching the daily progress of PLAN/PLAAF, ain't moving your arse anywhere just admiring it every second, patting the soft metal and polishing it with your tongue  that's the kind of love you have for these precious <- lord of the ring reference




But surely only after the kids went to bed.

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## grey boy 2

Any idea what this photo is about?

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## grey boy 2

grey boy 2 said:


> Any idea what this photo is about?


I may have the answer, "Cloud Shadow" UAV conducting high plateau flight test? (疑似中国云影无人机现身：在高原机场进行测试)

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## yusheng

ending time

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## samsara

Modern Chinese Warplanes update 51 online:
XAC is indeed developing a new "H-6KH" long range _naval bomber_.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/864505716593262592




















* * * * *

*What is a Naval Bomber?*

It's a plane best suited to sink enemy ships using *better range* than torpedo bomber would have. So when using them, position them on coasts without beaches (so they aren't suddenly overrun by a surprise landing of enemy troops) and hit the enemy fleet from away safely and cheaply. Torpedo bomber has the deadly effect of being able to land 'critical' hits on ships, sinking them immediately. The Naval Bomber seems to have a nice accuracy of killing ships, better than any other kind of bomber, torpedo bomber included.

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## cerebrum@Assasin

grey boy 2 said:


> I may have the answer, "Cloud Shadow" UAV conducting high plateau flight test? (疑似中国云影无人机现身：在高原机场进行测试)



Is it stealth???


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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Any idea what this photo is about?




Seems to be the same place where in early 2015 both the Z-18A and Z-20 were tested.

Deino








yusheng said:


> ending time




Will be interesting, with what type these will be replaced ?? J-10BH ?? ... again a J-11BH or even the multirole J-16?

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## cirr

Deino said:


> School-trip to SAC's Y-9 factory ....
> 
> I think I found my next trip destination: CAC's factory or SAC with my class !
> 
> View attachment 397100
> View attachment 397101



School trip to AVIC Helicopter

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## Deino

cirr said:


> School trip to AVIC Helicopter
> 
> View attachment 397559



Any more info on that lower model (in front) ??


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## Zarvan

Z-19E completed first flight this morning.

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## yusheng

Deino said:


> Will be interesting, with what type these will be replaced ?? J-10BH ?? ... again a J-11BH or even the multirole J-16?



i am afraid i can not tell you because i don't know either.

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/865097144029462529

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## monitor

AVIC Radar Insti successfully developed 1st wind-cooling airborne AESA radar in the world, settling the problem of PD radar converting.

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## 帅的一匹

monitor said:


> AVIC Radar Insti successfully developed 1st wind-cooling airborne AESA radar in the world, settling the problem of PD radar converting.


More detail brother?

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## cirr

monitor said:


> AVIC Radar Insti successfully developed 1st wind-cooling airborne AESA radar in the world, settling the problem of PD radar converting.


Looks like J10As, J11A/Bs and others with PD radar all can be easily and economically updated with this wonderful AESA radar.

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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> More detail brother?



*中国成功研发国际首款二维有源相控阵雷达*

2017年05月19日 12:37:14

来源：中国航空工业雷达所






航空工业雷达所成功研制出国际首款机载风冷二维有源相控阵火控雷达，近期经试飞验证，取得重大突破。

国际首款机载风冷二维有源相控阵火控雷达

我最贴心：我运用高效风冷散热技术，成功解决了配装PD雷达战机不能原位直接换装有源相控阵雷达的*世界性难题*。

我最轻盈：飞机只有飞得更轻才能飞得更快，我的风冷系统为飞机减轻负担。飞行将更加风姿绰约。

我最实惠：我凝聚了工程师们的智慧结晶，*大大降低了换装成本*，缩短换装周期，可大幅提升飞机综合作战效能。

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> *中国成功研发国际首款二维有源相控阵雷达*
> 
> 2017年05月19日 12:37:14
> 
> 来源：中国航空工业雷达所
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 航空工业雷达所成功研制出国际首款机载风冷二维有源相控阵火控雷达，近期经试飞验证，取得重大突破。
> 
> 国际首款机载风冷二维有源相控阵火控雷达
> 
> 我最贴心：我运用高效风冷散热技术，成功解决了配装PD雷达战机不能原位直接换装有源相控阵雷达的*世界性难题*。
> 
> 我最轻盈：飞机只有飞得更轻才能飞得更快，我的风冷系统为飞机减轻负担。飞行将更加风姿绰约。
> 
> 我最实惠：我凝聚了工程师们的智慧结晶，*大大降低了换装成本*，缩短换装周期，可大幅提升飞机综合作战效能。


Mean we gonna replace all PD radar with AESA? Wow!

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## grey boy 2

wanglaokan said:


> Mean we gonna replace all PD radar with AESA? Wow!


The best case scenario of the successfully development of this " new air cooling ASEA radar" will be upgraded all our 4 gen fighter like the J-10A and J-11 in a short and low cost way and most of all reduce weight lead to increase of performance as well




航空工业雷达所成功研制出国际首款机载风冷二维有源相控阵火控雷达，近期经试飞验证，取得重大突破。（来源： 航空工业雷达所）

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## Fledgingwings

Since J20 has made its maiden flight.will the J10 stay in service or be grounded?


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## Beast

Fledgingwings said:


> Since J20 has made its maiden flight.will the J10 stay in service or be grounded?


You think J-20 is cheap to operate?

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## Deino

Fledgingwings said:


> Since J20 has made its maiden flight.will the J10 stay in service or be grounded?




Pardon, but why do You think so ??

Or did the USAF right the moment, the F-22 entered service with a handful of aircraft, retire and ground all F-15 & F-16 ???


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## ChineseToTheBone

Deino said:


> That was a joke.


I guess Beast there had an even worse sense of humour than a German.

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## Fledgingwings

Beast said:


> You think J-20 is cheap to operate?


No I am saying since J20 is advance than J10 the chinese airforce might reconsider keeping both.


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## ziaulislam

@Beast @wanglaokan 
what is the number of J10s and flanker variants PLAAF have?
do we have a guesstimate?


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## Beast

ziaulislam said:


> @Beast @wanglaokan
> what is the number of J10s and flanker variants PLAAF have?
> do we have a guesstimate?


If estimated, I guess around at least modest 600 in service.

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## JSCh

*China aiming to become global fighter jet supplier with cheap new radar*
By Wang Xueying (CNTV) 16:02, May 22, 2017

China has developed a cheap, lightweight radar for fighter jets as it bids to supply more such technology to developing nations.

Announcing the breakthrough on Monday, state-owned aviation and defense company AVIC explained that it features a new cooling system and said it will be installed in nearly 1,000 existing Chinese jets, increasing their combat effectiveness.

The technology should prove attractive to Pakistan, with whom China already has an arrangement to supply fighter jets, and other developing countries, said sources with the AVIC’s Radar Research Institute.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> If estimated, I guess around at least modest 600 in service.


Between 500 to 600.

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## Hassan Guy

*China To Equip 1000 Fighter Jets With New Light Radar*





Aviation Industries Corporation of China (AVIC) has announced the development of a ‘light’ radar which will be installed on 1000 Chinese-built fighter jets.

However the technical details of the radar, such as its coverage area were not revealed in the report published by CGTN.com.

Among other things, the radar features the newest cooling system, AVIC representatives said.

“About 1,000 existing Chinese jet fighters, including the J-10, will be equipped with the new radar system in the near future, which should significantly improve their combat effectiveness.” Representatives said.

China intends to supply this technology mainly to developing countries, including Pakistan.

Although development of the Chengdu J-10 all-weather multirole fighter began in the 1980s and it performed its maiden flight in the late 1990s, the Chinese People's Liberation Army did not announce its entry into service until late 2006.

The J-10 is the first Chinese-developed combat aircraft that approaches Western fighters in terms of performance and capabilities.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/19...ighter_Jets_With_New_Light_Radar#.WSMGuBN95fQ

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## grey boy 2

AVIC "Dragon boat festival specials"? (中航工业送出大礼！端午节前晒出多型粽子机)






















AG600, L-15, JL-9, K8

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## Beast

Ok since I am restricted by some despicable moderator in other Chinese defense thread.

I would like to raise the question of JL-9. Ever since the new documtary about domestic engine for J-20 is revealed. Everybody talks about J-20 engine but also miss another important engine, the kunlun WP-14.

From what we know this engine suppose to be the most advance turbojet engine in market. It's thrust level suppose to be max thrust 7800kg.

That will give tremoudou boast to J-8HF but as we know it's production line has closed. So the most beneficial of this twist will be JL-9 advanced trainer. And that is the reason why JL-9 which many deemed as obsolete is not as terrible as we thought.

It has get huge order from PLAAF and even secured an export order from an African Air Force.

It massive advantage over newer L-15 will be its single engine simplicity and still sharing some features of the legacy Mig-21 which reduces maintenance. It's flight performance maybe even comparable to L-15 and JF-17 while deemed good enough to convert into fighter jet to carry out combat role.

JL-9 with AESA plus datalink may still have a bright future and may continue the Mig-21 legacy well into the 21th century.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> Ok since I am restricted by some despicable moderator in other Chinese defense thread.
> 
> .....




Care to explain who's this despicable moderator ? since I did nothing.


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Care to explain who's this despicable moderator ? since I did nothing.


In Chinese, it's called 不打自招

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## Beast

http://china-pla.blogspot.sg/2009/10/aerospace-engine-situation-with-big.html?m=1

Flipping back some of the old analysis. It seems like a lot of things are much clearer. I personally do not like this Feng but this analysis is quite accurate and on the spot for year 2017. From WS-18, WP-14kunlun. It seems a lot of thing have already materialized.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> In Chinese, it's called 不打自招


此第五阴叁白辆

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## Deino

I hope the alleged KJ-3000 or whatever it will be called will not look like this !??

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## grey boy 2

KJ-500 and other specialty aircraft

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> KJ-500 and other specialty aircraft




Thanks a lot for posting. I just read yesterday that at the tarmac 4 more KJ-500, at least 2-3 Y-8GX-6 (KQ-200 ASW) and several more special mission birds were spotted.


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## Daniel808

ziaulislam said:


> @Beast @wanglaokan
> what is the number of J10s and flanker variants PLAAF have?
> do we have a guesstimate?



*Updated in November 2015 :*

A rough estimate of the number of modern PLA(N)AF fighter aircraft:

A typical PLAAF regiment consists of 28 aircraft.
A typical PLANAF regiment consists of 24 aircraft.

*J-16*:
- 28 aircraft per regiment X 1 regiment = *28 J-16

J-10*:
- J-10A: 10 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 1 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft = 304 J-10A/S
- J-10B/C: 53 J-10B + 12 J-10C = 65 J-10B/C
Total: *304 + 65 = 369 J-10

J-15*:
10 + 5 = *15 J-15*

*J-11B*:
9 PLAAF regiments X 28 aircraft + 3 PLANAF regiments X 24 aircraft =* 324 J-11B of all variants

J-11A*:
- Su-27UBK/SK (imported): 24 + 26 + 28 = 78 Su-27UBK/SK
- J-11/A: 104
Total: *78 + 105 = 182 J-11/A and Su-27

Su-30*:
- Su-30MKK: 38 per batch X 2 batches = 76 Su-30MKK
- Su-30MK2: 24
Total:* 76 + 24 = 90 Su-30

JH-7*:
- PLAAF: 120
- PLANAF: 120
Total: *240 JH-7

GRAND TOTAL: 
324 + 182 + 369 + 15 + 90 + 240 + 28 
= 1248 4/4.5th generation combat aircraft*

Note:
- Older generation aircraft were not included
- Force multipliers (i.e. AEW/EW aircraft) were not included
- Numbers are likely to be even higher due to production

Aircraft currently in production:
- *J-10C*
- *J-16*
- *J-15
- J-20
*
Credit to @SinoSoldier Any Recent Updates for PLA(N)AF Fighter Aircraft Inventory? @grey boy 2 @Deino @jkroo @cirr

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## Han Patriot

The numbers of AL-31s bought does not tally with this number...You need to remember at least some spare engines per aircraft, other than using domestic WS-10A, there is no logical explanation.

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## Daniel808

Han Patriot said:


> The numbers of AL-31s bought does not tally with this number...You need to remember at least some spare engines per aircraft, other than using domestic WS-10A, there is no logical explanation.



It's True.
That All Shenyang J-11B/BH dan J-16 using *WS-10A Taihang Engine.*

*Total using that 2015 Data :*
326 J-11B/BH + 28 J-16 (x 2 WS-10A Taihang Engine per Unit) =* 804 Unit WS-10A Taihang Engine on Use*
not including for Spares.

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## ziaulislam

Daniel808 said:


> It's True.
> That All Shenyang J-11B/BH dan J-16 using *WS-10A Taihang Engine.*
> 
> *Total using that 2015 Data :*
> 326 J-11B/BH + 28 J-16 (x 2 WS-10A Taihang Engine per Unit) =* 804 Unit WS-10A Taihang Engine on Use*
> not including for Spares.


how many Al 31 were brought orginally


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## cirr

SAC

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## lcloo

PLAAF IL-76 and Y8 air drops IFV with heavy duty parachutes.

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## rcrmj

ziaulislam said:


> how many Al 31 were brought orginally


over a thousand`````


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## 帅的一匹

rcrmj said:


> over a thousand`````


J10c is using WS10 with Al31 like petals?


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## grey boy 2

Jacksonbobo pictures taken for the country 我为共和国拍照

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## rcrmj

wanglaokan said:


> J10c is using WS10 with Al31 like petals?


as far as I know the J-10B/Cs are using al31

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## 帅的一匹

Which means WS10 will never fit on J10 in volume right?


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## Beast

rcrmj said:


> as far as I know the J-10B/Cs are using al31


J-10B/C do not used AL-31FN engine. There are domestic made uprated hybrid engine that only external looks like AL-31FN.

AL-31FN engine cannot give the kind of 145kN > thrust required by PLAAF. Russian has no means to uprate the engine to help China project. There are basically the same engine used on J-20.

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## Beast

rcrmj said:


> Turbofan and fighter jet is not LEGO toys that you can add bits and bots as you wish! changing the core is pretty much redesigning the whole```



Let me ask you one thing, can you easily differential WP-13F(based on Russian R-11) and WP-14 kunlun engine?

WP-14 kunlun engine is claimed to be first independently develop Chinese engine with IP right. It has 50% more thrust than WP-13F. It do not share any core from R-11 engine and yet it does not look much different from it except the shiny engine petal.

Now is not a matter of what u claim. Fact is J-20 engine is domestic made and assemble at shenyang liming. Are u going to deny it?

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## yusheng

3亿元粉末高温合金盘件项目在镇江奠基

来源：中国江苏网 2017-05-24 08:58:00
　　中国江苏网5月24日讯 昨天上午，航发优材(镇江)高温合金有限公司粉末高温合金盘件工程技术中心项目在镇江航空航天产业园奠基，这是新区在航空核心零部件上的新突破，也标志着我市航空产业发展又迈上了新的台阶。市长张叶飞，中国航发集团副总经理陈少洋，中国航发集团科技委副主任、航材院院长戴圣龙，市委常委、新区党工委书记秦海涛共同启动项目建设。
　　由中国航发航材院和镇江新区共同设立的航发优材（镇江）高温合金有限公司，注册资金3亿元，主要承载粉末高温合金盘件工程技术中心项目。项目计划用地两百亩，以专业生产粉末盘，保障航空发动机需求为目标，致力打造国内规模最大的粉末盘工程技术中心，具备年产粉末高温合金盘件*3000*件的能力。




　　中国航发航材院的粉末盘研究中心在国内率先开展粉末高温合金及粉末来制造技术研究，成功研制了1至4代粉末高温合金材料体系，突破了粉末高温合金材料以及相关设计制造、性能检测与评估等31项关键技术。（范昀 周衡 李明明）
http://jsnews.jschina.com.cn/zj/a/201705/t20170524_549427.shtml

轴型叶片通用组合测具
【成果完成人】 雷浩强;张育龙;裴聪;罗培真;李惠;吴华;易雪琴
【第一完成单位】 成都发动机
【关键词】 测具;叶片
【中图分类号】 TG806
【学科分类号】 460.20
【成果简介】 1.任务来源 轴型叶片的检测主要包括叶片型面、安装角度、叶尖圆锥面的检测,要完成上述检测,使用现有测具,每1种轴型叶片需要4套测具,其中,1套用于检测安装角度,1套用于检测叶尖圆锥面,两套用于检测叶片型面(叶片型面需粗、精各1套测具)。由于轴型叶片的种类繁多,因而需要非常多的测具,这不仅难于保证叶片加工的工期,而且极大增加叶片的加工成本(每套测具的制造周期需要几十天,制造成本需几千至一万多元人民币)和保管成本。 基于轴型叶片加工中行业中普遍存在的生产成本高,制造周期长,客户评价差,制......[详细]
【成果类别】 应用技术
【成果水平】 国内领先
【研究起止时间】 2011-08～2011-12
【评价形式】 鉴定
【成果入库时间】 2014
【成果简介】
1.任务来源 轴型叶片的检测主要包括叶片型面、安装角度、叶尖圆锥面的检测,要完成上述检测,使用现有测具,每1种轴型叶片需要4套测具,其中,1套用于检测安装角度,1套用于检测叶尖圆锥面,两套用于检测叶片型面(叶片型面需粗、精各1套测具)。由于轴型叶片的种类繁多,因而需要非常多的测具,这不仅难于保证叶片加工的工期,而且极大增加叶片的加工成本(每套测具的制造周期需要几十天,制造成本需几千至一万多元人民币)和保管成本。 基于轴型叶片加工中行业中普遍存在的生产成本高,制造周期长,客户评价差,制造技术停滞不前的现状,根据当前成都发动机(集团)有限公司轴型叶片的当前订单情况和立足发展国内外轴型叶片加工技术的目的,公司自立本课题。

2.项目所属科学技术领域 本项目属航空技术领域,涵盖所有军民用航空发动机和燃、汽轮机不同型号的轴型叶片检测,已应用到国内606所,624所,商发,美国GE公司,日本三菱,欧洲、加拿大等几家航空公司占全球15%比例以上超过60万件轴型叶片的检测领域,并在进一步扩大应用范围。

3.主要内容 为克服现有技术的不足,成都发动机(集团)有限公司研制了一种轴型叶片通用组合测具,这种测具通过设计的通用定位块、压紧块、工艺角度定位块、型线样板、活动截面定位块组合可以实现不同型号叶片的轴向定位和角度定位;通过安装角度测量装置、底座、通用定位块、安装角度辅助定位块可以实现被测轴型叶片的安装角度测量;通过活动截面定位块、标尺、底座、样板可实现被测轴型叶片的叶型测量;通过标尺、活动截面定位块、叶尖圆锥面测量块、叶尖辅助定位块等可实现被测轴型叶片的叶尖圆锥面测量。这样,一套测具就可完成多种型号轴型叶片的型面、安装角度、叶尖高度检测,因而大大减少了测具的数量。同时,由于测具的通用性强,因而新型号的轴型叶片不需要再制造新的工装,整个叶片的生产周期大幅度缩短,生产成本、维修成本和保管成本明显降低。

4.特点 本项目相对于现有技术采用的测具,结构简单精巧,测量精准可靠,能够很大地降低生产周期和制造成本。国内外行业内厂家尚无与类似产品,本项目在国际上居于领先水平。其特点体现在：
(1)采用带蝶形压紧螺母的V型定位块,对不同轴径的叶片进行定位;采用角度样板,对带安装扁的叶片进行定位;采用角尺,对叶型上有工艺扁的叶片进行定位;采用截面样板,对无安装扁和工艺扁的叶片进行定位,由此解决了所有轴型叶片的定位问题。 (2)采用活动叶型截面定位装置,通过内凹的锁定结构和与疏板配套的T型滑动通槽,实现了不同截面叶片型面的测量。
(3)通过加长疏板整体基准面,设置安装角度配套样板和叶尖圆锥面测量块,实现了安装角度、叶尖圆锥面与叶型截面的组合测量。

5.应用推广情况 本项目产生的直接经济效益2162.7万元,新增叶片订单14万余件,新增产值7209万元,增加了10余台大型轴流风机和7台GT200高炉煤气余温余热透平发电装置的订单,并顺利完成QC185、QC400、GT25000G军用舰载燃机轴型叶片研制,*WS18,WS19涡扇发动机*轴型叶片研制,624所AT项目无人机等型号攻坚任务等。 本项目极大缩减了军、民用轴型叶片的研制周期和制造成本,提高了国内外轴型叶片的测量技术水平和生产制造能力,对全球航空事业、电力事业和其他动力事业的发展起到了的推进作用。
http://dbpub.cnki.net/grid2008/dbpub/detail.aspx?dbcode=SNAD&dbname=SNAD&filename=SNAD000001580044

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## Deino

Has the 15th Regiment, 5th Division now also been converted into a Brigade !?? ... or a PS-Job ??







PS: seems official

http://photo.81.cn/pla/2017-06/09/content_7633938_6.htm

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## Deino

Just me again concerning the Brigade issue:

Besides the CFTE, FTTC and Training units and that strange UCAV (J-6UCAV) Brigade we know that there are since 2012 at least 4 so called Bases, which replaced Divisions with their subordinated Regiments now re-designated to Brigades: 

Dalian Base: 88th, 89th, 90th & 91st Brigade 
Ürümqi Base: 109th, 110th, 111th & 112th Brigade 
Shanghai Base: 78th, 85th, 86th & 93rd Brigade 
Nanning Base: 124th, 125th & 126th Brigade 

In recent months there are however some reports concerning the establishments of additional Brigades and former Regiments from the 13th, 33rd and 44th Divisions were mentions albeit never shown with new serials. In contrast this - the former 15th AR, 5th Division - seems to be now confirmed a Brigade even with new serials. (http://photo.81.cn/pla/2017-06/09/content_7633938_6.htm)

My question now is what "Base" superseded the 5th Division and are the other Regiments now Brigades too?

... and what about the other Divisions (13th, 33rd and 44th Division's Regiment) ?? 

Deino


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## Deino

Another very interesting read !

https://jamestown.org/program/waiti...iaoguang/?mc_cid=0e916a5940&mc_eid=39a45dd9c9

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## Deino

Another unit news: As expected and if I'm not wrong, the 14th AR / 5th Ground Attack Division (at Zhucheng) was abolished this morning

http://photo.81.cn/pla/2017-06/15/content_7632670.htm

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## grey boy 2

H-6K bombers night mission

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## 星海军事

狭路相逢

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## Deino

星海军事 said:


> 狭路相逢





__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/877907656949735425


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## JSCh

* China to hold two competitions of 2017 International Army Games *
People's Daily, China
Published on Jun 22, 2017

This year, China will hold the “Aviadarts” and “Airborne Platoon” competitions of the 2017 International Army Games (IAG) in Changchun, Jilin province, from July 29 to August 12. 

The IAG is an international military event hosted by Russian Defence Ministry. The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force has continuously participated in IAG for 3 years and achieved great results since it showed up in the “Aviadarts” competition of IAG in 2014.

In 2016, the PLA Air Force sent three teams to participate in the “Aviadarts”, “Airborne Platoon” and “Keys to the Sky” competitions, so as to strengthen exchanges and improve air combat.

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## lcloo

Any one know what happen to those IL-76s bearing serial numbers B-40xx?
1) Have they changed their serial numbers to current standard PLAAF numbers?
2) Or they kept their numbers till they retire?


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## Deino

Can anyone explain !!??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881839096578142208

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## yantong1980

Deino said:


> Can anyone explain !!??
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/881839096578142208



Is that chart from official source, Deino ? Seems they have several project in one timeline, under FC-1 line project interesting, that UCAV perhaps exist, I doubt with the 'white stealth fighter', and that Y-20 below, look they have plan for Y-20 in future if the chart not wrong. Do you have bigger image of this chart ?


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## Deino

yantong1980 said:


> Is that chart from official source, Deino ? Seems they have several project in one timeline, under FC-1 line project interesting, that UCAV perhaps exist, I doubt with the 'white stealth fighter', and that Y-20 below, look they have plan for Y-20 in future if the chart not wrong. Do you have bigger image of this chart ?




Regrettably not !

I know this chart since years but always only very small or too much blurred ... today I found it and even if I'm sure that in most cases these drawings are merely placeholders of real models or projects I'm also sure that they are a hint of something real.

That Y-20 is in fact an Il-76 and here I'm sure it fits nicely to reports about a projected KJ-2000 based on an Il-76 but with three conformal arrays similar to the IAI Phalcon system used on the 707.
Consequently that UAV/UCAV could be a placeholder for the Sharp Sword Lijian but what project or programme was that white type? Looks very much like a stealthy ground-attack plane.

Deino

Could You please translate what's written under that white type?


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## Ironborn

Under the white plane says "third generation fighter", since it branches straight off the FC-1, it probably just a proposed upgrade version of the FC-1, or concept, since it has the same thing under it as the flankers, both say " third generation fighter"


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## cirr

http://www.avic.com.cn/cn/xwzx/ssqydt/651000.shtml

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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 410377
> 
> 
> http://www.avic.com.cn/cn/xwzx/ssqydt/651000.shtml



Looks more like a F-22 than the FC-31!?
Maybe for studies similar to the other models we know being tested?


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Looks more like a F-22 than the FC-31!?
> Maybe for studies similar to the other models we know being tested?


For F22 RCS measurement

Or aerodynamic test

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## lcloo

Close contact of two adversary since the last air to air battles in 1960s. H6K and IDF.

1964 Dec 18th a PLAAF J6 fighter shot down a Taiwaneses RF-101 Voodoo recon-fighter.
1964年12月18日，驻浙江路桥的海航4师歼-6王鸿喜在机场附近海面击落台湾RF-101高速侦察机一架，飞行员谢翔鹤跳伞被俘。

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## lcloo

As the spokesman of China MoD said, "get used to it".
On July 20th, 8 H6K and 1 Y8 eletronic warfare plane and 1 Y8 intel gathering plane made round the islands trips from both South and North directions.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/888419604267192320

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## grey boy 2

CCTV has confirmed J-20 in service status (央视新闻介绍空军歼击航空兵证实歼20已经服役)
http://tv.cctv.com/2017/07/22/VIDEfNaoe6ge4iYx8sVktPC0170722.shtml

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## Avicenna

Congratulations China!!!!

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## ZeEa5KPul

grey boy 2 said:


> CCTV has confirmed J-20 in service status (央视新闻介绍空军歼击航空兵证实歼20已经服役)


I really love this head-on shot of the J-20. It clearly illustrates the planform alignment of the tail with the strakes, among other things.

What a gorgeous fighter.

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## grey boy 2

Which plane this cockpit belong to? just found this picture minutes ago

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## rendong

grey boy 2 said:


> Which plane this cockpit belong to? just found this picture minutes ago


J16

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Which plane this cockpit belong to? just found this picture minutes ago


FC31V1

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> Which plane this cockpit belong to? just found this picture minutes ago


ShenY


grey boy 2 said:


> Which plane this cockpit belong to? just found this picture minutes ago


ShenYang FC-31 cockpit

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## lcloo

JH-7 fighter bombers attached to an aviation brigade of the air force under the PLA Northern Theater Command fly in formation during a tactical flight training exercise on July 26, 2017. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Cao Zhanli)

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/891165516554846208

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## yusheng



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## yusheng

International military competition 2017 air darts project closing ceremony and open air force activities

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## ChineseToTheBone

JSCh said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/891165516554846208


Interesting that multiple J-31 stealth fighter jets were featured so prominently at the beginning of this rather official video directly from our air force media department. Not saying this would represent anything concrete of course, but it just might be a hint they are indeed supporting the development of this project.

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## Deino

Reportedly the current Orbat for the Eastern Theatre Command:


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## Mitho1980

Current status of j 31 still active project or j 20 has taken over?


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## Deino

Mitho1980 said:


> Current status of j 31 still active project or j 20 has taken over?




Why not asking in the special FC-31-thread !??

By the way ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/894267485498875904

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## Mitho1980

Just lazy searching for j 31 thread. My bad.
Wanted to know because j20 is not for export.just curious if paf will have seek other avenues if j31 us scraped


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## yusheng

2017年8月10日，国际军事比赛－2017“航空飞镖”项目闭幕式暨空军航空开放活动在空军大房身机场隆重举行。静态展示区展示了众多中国空军现役战斗机，其中包括歼－10B系列。
In August 10, 2017, the international military competition 2017 aviation darts "project and the closing ceremony was held in the open air force air force Dafangshen airport. The static display of many Chinese Air Force fighter, including the 10B series.

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## yusheng



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## cirr

H6N






Also H-20 prototype reportedly rolled off the assembly line on 08.06.2017

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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 418482
> 
> 
> Also H-20 prototype reportedly rolled off the assembly line on 08.06.2017




Funny .... I just posted it too in the dedicated thread.

Concerning the H-X I have my doubts !!


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## Brainsucker

cirr said:


> View attachment 418482
> 
> 
> Also H-20 prototype reportedly rolled off the assembly line on 08.06.2017



@cirr : is that H-20 prototype, cirr? or H-6 variant?


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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> @cirr : is that H-20 prototype, cirr? or H-6 variant?



Like I just posted: First image of the alleged H-6N - or H-6KH - which made its maiden flight at the end of last year appeared. This development of the H-6K is said to be an IFR-probe equipped version, allegedly planned as an AShBM carrier with the size of a DF-21D.

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## cirr

Brainsucker said:


> @cirr : is that H-20 prototype, cirr? or H-6 variant?



The latter.


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## IblinI

cirr said:


> H6N
> 
> View attachment 418482
> 
> 
> Also H-20 prototype reportedly rolled off the assembly line on 08.06.2017


How long does it usually take until taxi and maiden flight.


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Like I just posted: First image of the alleged H-6N - or H-6KH - which made its maiden flight at the end of last year appeared. This development of the H-6K is said to be an IFR-probe equipped version, allegedly planned as an AShBM carrier with the size of a DF-21D.











Deino said:


> Funny .... I just posted it too in the dedicated thread.
> 
> Concerning the H-X I have my doubts !!



Time will tell, time will tell...

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Time will tell, time will tell...



Indeed ... and that's what makes following Chinese aviation so much interesting ! They are always able to surprise.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/900354266799493120

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## zestokryl

Unbelievably badass video

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## 55100864

Chinese Mach-Loop at 1:08

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## clarkgap

Deino said:


> Like I just posted: First image of the alleged H-6N - or H-6KH - which made its maiden flight at the end of last year appeared. This development of the H-6K is said to be an IFR-probe equipped version, allegedly planned as an AShBM carrier with the size of a DF-21D.



yankeesama (who draw the first picture of H-6N) said the AShBM is not a variant of DF-21 on his weibo.

His picture:






He said:
"这都是不懂我当初用画图工具涂的那侧影的用心啊......咋就觉得那玩意儿还是DF-21系的呢？"
"You do not understand my working on drawing the silhouette by miscro painting......Why do you think it is a variant of DF-21?"

Maybe it is a variant of DF-16?



clarkgap said:


> yankeesama (who draw the first picture of H-6N) said the AShBM is not a variant of DF-21 on his weibo.
> 
> His picture:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He said:
> "这都是不懂我当初用画图工具涂的那侧影的用心啊......咋就觉得那玩意儿还是DF-21系的呢？"
> "You do not understand my working on drawing the silhouette by miscro painting......Why do you think it is a variant of DF-21?"
> 
> Maybe it is a variant of DF-16?




His weibo: http://weibo.com/2859620437/FifVRdMpn?filter=hot&root_comment_id=0&type=comment


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## Deino

Following the just recently revealed new Fuzhou Base in the Eastern Theatre Command and the alleged Kunming Base I got hints for four more base to be or even already established including Lanzhou, Wuhan, Jinan, Lhasa and Jinan !

Need some more time to confirm ... but it seems as if the Base/Brigade concept will not only expanded but also adopted for all Theatre Commands and that this re-organisation is more profound that the 2012-reform.

Another question however in this regard: WHY all this ??

Any ideas?

Deino

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Following the just recently revealed new Fuzhou Base in the Eastern Theatre Command and the alleged Kunming Base I got hints for four more base to be or even already established including Lanzhou, Wuhan, Jinan, Lhasa and Jinan !
> 
> Need some more time to confirm ... but it seems as if the Base/Brigade concept will not only expanded but also adopted for all Theatre Commands and that this re-organisation is more profound that the 2012-reform.
> 
> Another question however in this regard: WHY all this ??
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Deino


Combat readiness? Joint operations? Remember the previous PLAAF doctrine was very similar to that of the former USSR. They are just emulating Western developments


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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Following the just recently revealed new Fuzhou Base in the Eastern Theatre Command and the alleged Kunming Base I got hints for four more base to be or even already established including Lanzhou, Wuhan, Jinan, Lhasa and Jinan !
> 
> Need some more time to confirm ... but it seems as if the Base/Brigade concept will not only expanded but also adopted for all Theatre Commands and that this re-organisation is more profound that the 2012-reform.
> 
> Another question however in this regard: WHY all this ??
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Deino



@Deino, I'm sorry for my bad English and my lack of understanding, but can you explain more about this? I'm confuse. Am I right that you said that the Eastern Theater establish a base in Lhasa that basically in the Western Theater area? Or you mean of something else that I hope that you don't mind to explain more?

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> Combat readiness? Joint operations? Remember the previous PLAAF doctrine was very similar to that of the former USSR. They are just emulating Western developments



But does this require a change from Division and Regiments to Bases and Brigades ?


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> But does this require a change from Division and Regiments to Bases and Brigades ?


Divisions are regarded as unwieldy formations, both in air and land. Therefore, the Chinese are streamlining their organization by converting divisions into more agile/easily coordinated brigades.


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## samsara

*China to appoint new air force commander, sources say*

Ding Laihang, who turns 60 next month, is tipped to take the top job when Ma Xiaotian retires

SCMP - 23 August, 2017





_Lieutenant General Ding Laihang is expected to be China’s next air force commander, sources say. __Photo: Handout_​
China is expected to appoint a new air force commander as part of a People’s Liberation Army leadership reshuffle ahead of the national congress in autumn, sources said.

The front runner to lead the country’s 420,000-strong air force is Lieutenant General Ding Laihang, three separate sources told the South China Morning Post.

Ding, who will turn 60 next month, has held the top air force job in the Northern Theatre Command since last year. He is tipped to succeed Ma Xiaotian, 68, who has been the air force commander since 2012 and is expected to retire.

Ding was previously air force commander of the Shenyang Military Region from 2012.

An announcement on the appointment would be made soon, according to a diplomatic source.

Two other rising stars in the air force – Lieutenant General Yi Xiaoguang, deputy chief of the joint staff, and Lieutenant General Ma Zhenjun, chief of staff of the air force – had both previously been seen as strong contenders for the job.

“Ding was generally considered the third preference after Yi and Ma Zhenjun to take over from Ma Xiaotian,” one of the sources said.

Analysts have noted that Yi, 59, is a more experienced candidate than Ding. But if President Xi Jinping was looking for a younger general to lead the air force then he might go for 55-year-old Ma Zhenjun, who holds the same rank as Ding.

Ma Zhenjun was the youngest leading military officer with the air force when he took over the top job at what was then the Beijing Military Region in 2012.

Ding’s career overlapped with Xi’s in Fujian province in the early 2000s. In 2001, Ding became chief of staff of the Eighth Corps based in Fuzhou, and the same year went on to lead the air force in the city.

Xi was governor of the province from 2000 to 2002.

Ding graduated from the PLA’s Air Force Command College. He became president of the college in 2007 and a year later took over as air force chief of staff of the then Chengdu Military Command.

The change would follow a reshuffle of the navy leadership in January, when Rear Admiral Shen Jinlong was a surprise pick to take over as new commander.

A front runner for that job, Vice Admiral Yuan Yubai was named head of the Southern Theatre Command, which oversees the South China Sea.

Pundits will be closely watching to see whether Yi and Ma Zhenjun are given other top jobs in the military.

Retired PLA major general Xu Guangyu, who is based in Shanghai, noted that the air force had made rapid progress in recent years, particularly with the success of its J-20 stealth fighters.

Three Chinese-made J-20s made their debut flight during a parade to mark the PLA’s 90th anniversary at a training base in Inner Mongolia last month.

“Apart from upgrading the hardware, one of the most challenging tasks for the new air force commander will be to improve the quality of its pilots,” said Xu, adding that Ma Xiaotian had made significant progress in this area in recent years.

China is trying to streamline its army, but it is expanding the navy and air force.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> *China to appoint new air force commander, sources say*
> 
> Ding Laihang, who turns 60 next month, is tipped to take the top job when Ma Xiaotian retires
> 
> SCMP - 23 August, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Lieutenant General Ding Laihang is expected to be China’s next air force commander, sources say. __Photo: Handout_​
> China is expected to appoint a new air force commander as part of a People’s Liberation Army leadership reshuffle ahead of the national congress in autumn, sources said.
> 
> The front runner to lead the country’s 420,000-strong air force is Lieutenant General Ding Laihang, three separate sources told the South China Morning Post.
> 
> Ding, who will turn 60 next month, has held the top air force job in the Northern Theatre Command since last year. He is tipped to succeed Ma Xiaotian, 68, who has been the air force commander since 2012 and is expected to retire.
> 
> Ding was previously air force commander of the Shenyang Military Region from 2012.
> 
> An announcement on the appointment would be made soon, according to a diplomatic source.
> 
> Two other rising stars in the air force – Lieutenant General Yi Xiaoguang, deputy chief of the joint staff, and Lieutenant General Ma Zhenjun, chief of staff of the air force – had both previously been seen as strong contenders for the job.
> 
> “Ding was generally considered the third preference after Yi and Ma Zhenjun to take over from Ma Xiaotian,” one of the sources said.
> 
> Analysts have noted that Yi, 59, is a more experienced candidate than Ding. But if President Xi Jinping was looking for a younger general to lead the air force then he might go for 55-year-old Ma Zhenjun, who holds the same rank as Ding.
> 
> Ma Zhenjun was the youngest leading military officer with the air force when he took over the top job at what was then the Beijing Military Region in 2012.
> 
> Ding’s career overlapped with Xi’s in Fujian province in the early 2000s. In 2001, Ding became chief of staff of the Eighth Corps based in Fuzhou, and the same year went on to lead the air force in the city.
> 
> Xi was governor of the province from 2000 to 2002.
> 
> Ding graduated from the PLA’s Air Force Command College. He became president of the college in 2007 and a year later took over as air force chief of staff of the then Chengdu Military Command.
> 
> The change would follow a reshuffle of the navy leadership in January, when Rear Admiral Shen Jinlong was a surprise pick to take over as new commander.
> 
> A front runner for that job, Vice Admiral Yuan Yubai was named head of the Southern Theatre Command, which oversees the South China Sea.
> 
> Pundits will be closely watching to see whether Yi and Ma Zhenjun are given other top jobs in the military.
> 
> Retired PLA major general Xu Guangyu, who is based in Shanghai, noted that the air force had made rapid progress in recent years, particularly with the success of its J-20 stealth fighters.
> 
> Three Chinese-made J-20s made their debut flight during a parade to mark the PLA’s 90th anniversary at a training base in Inner Mongolia last month.
> 
> “Apart from upgrading the hardware, one of the most challenging tasks for the new air force commander will be to improve the quality of its pilots,” said Xu, adding that Ma Xiaotian had made significant progress in this area in recent years.
> 
> China is trying to streamline its army, but it is expanding the navy and air force.


SCMP is notoriously inaccurate. They said that Li Zuocheng would be the new Vice-Chairman of CMC; he turned out to be chief staff.


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## samsara

zestokryl said:


> Unbelievably badass video


Awesome clip uploaded by Henri KENHMANN quite recently! Just grabbed an offline copy 



Figaro said:


> SCMP is notoriously inaccurate. They said that Li Zuocheng would be the new Vice-Chairman of CMC; he turned out to be chief staff.


Let's see this time  for sure this AF guy will move UP the ladder!


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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> @Deino, I'm sorry for my bad English and my lack of understanding, but can you explain more about this? I'm confuse. Am I right that you said that the Eastern Theater establish a base in Lhasa that basically in the Western Theater area? Or you mean of something else that I hope that you don't mind to explain more?




Pardon, for "ignoring" at first Your question ... and no, Your English is perfectly fine (I don't think mine is better); I think my post was only misleading.

First of all we need to differ between an Air Base and a Base.
At first sight it looks as if Regiments were replaced simply by Brigades (usually just reusing their original numbers) and Divisions are replaced by Bases.
However the difference is most of all related to its leader grade: Each Base is directly subordinate to the relevant Theater Command Air Force HQ, which is a theater command deputy leader grade organization.
As such, each of the Bases has command overall all PLAAF air brigades (division deputy leader grade), SAMs, AAA, and radar units in their immediate AOR.

Quite important (via Ken Allen): "When addressing this issue, it is also important to keep in mind the 15-grade structure and the overall C2 structure. Prior to the creation of about 15 PLAAF aviation brigades in 2011/2012, two of the current bases were division leader-grade command posts and two were corps deputy leader-grade command posts. When they renamed them as bases (基地), all of them now have the grade of corps deputy leader."

Hope this helps a bit.
Deino

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Pardon, for "ignoring" at first Your question ... and no, Your English is perfectly fine (I don't think mine is better); I think my post was only misleading.
> 
> First of all we need to differ between an Air Base and a Base.
> At first sight it looks as if Regiments were replaced simply by Brigades (usually just reusing their original numbers) and Divisions are replaced by Bases.
> However the difference is most of all related to its leader grade: Each Base is directly subordinate to the relevant Theater Command Air Force HQ, which is a theater command deputy leader grade organization.
> As such, each of the Bases has command overall all PLAAF air brigades (division deputy leader grade), SAMs, AAA, and radar units in their immediate AOR.
> 
> Quite important (via Ken Allen): "When addressing this issue, it is also important to keep in mind the 15-grade structure and the overall C2 structure. Prior to the creation of about 15 PLAAF aviation brigades in 2011/2012, two of the current bases were division leader-grade command posts and two were corps deputy leader-grade command posts. When they renamed them as bases (基地), all of them now have the grade of corps deputy leader."
> 
> Hope this helps a bit.
> Deino



thank you for the explanation. But what is this "Base" mean? it's mean that PLAAF will adopt territorial command and control? For example, the Lhasa base will only responsible the area around Lhasa, while Kunming base will only command the area around Kunming?

So for an example, that if India - China border clash turn into hot war, then the Kunming base can't take part in the war just because it is not inside their jurisdiction? (pardon for bringing the clash matter. It just for the example for Chinese Orbat, not sparking Sino-India troll war in here).

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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> thank you for the explanation. But what is this "Base" mean? it's mean that PLAAF will adopt territorial command and control? For example, the Lhasa base will only responsible the area around Lhasa, while Kunming base will only command the area around Kunming?
> 
> So for an example, that if India - China border clash turn into hot war, then the Kunming base can't take part in the war just because it is not inside their jurisdiction? (pardon for bringing the clash matter. It just for the example for Chinese Orbat, not sparking Sino-India troll war in here).




That's exactly the question I for now don't understand ... historically most Bases were former Military Region's Command Posts.

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> That's exactly the question I for now don't understand ... historically most Bases were former Military Region's Command Posts.


I guess they want to decentralize the command by providing multiple bases within a theatre


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## Brainsucker

Thanks for the respond guys, it help a lot 

So basically bases work like garrison? It's strictly territorial and responsible to their immediate area only?


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## samsara

You guys should create a NEW THREAD to discuss this warring imagination instead of cluttering this thread or other designated threads with the many IF conflict scenarios.

Please create a new one whereas those who are interested may engage lively there.

P.S. I'll suggest a special thread with title: "The [Imaginary] Sino-Indian 2nd Border Clash" or so... i don't use "war" for it's too strong but just amend as the OP wishes...

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## Brainsucker

samsara said:


> You guys should create a NEW THREAD to discuss this warring imagination instead of cluttering this thread or other designated threads with the many IF conflict scenarios.
> 
> Please create a new one whereas those who are interested may engage lively there.
> 
> P.S. I'll suggest a special thread with title: "The [Imaginary] Sino-Indian 2nd Border Clash" or so... i don't use "war" for it's too strong but just amend as the OP wishes...



We don't talk about an imaginary war. It just a question about how the bases work in PLAAF, which is not OT, because it's a talk about PLAAF organization. The imaginary Sino - Indian clash just a case that can help the discussion. It's not the clash itself that we discuss.

This is only an example that make me confuse until now. If there is a hot war near Doklam and Sikkim, or perhaps at the western end of China, how the bases react? Should they create a new base (new command and control) near the border, or it is Lhasa or Xinjiang bases that will take command of the front lines.

I think my case is not about the war, but how PLAAF will work in operation level in this type of military operation. Should Bases only responsible inside their area of operation (which mean strictly territorial) or more fluid and can move to the frontlines when the need arise.

And how this matter will effect PLAAF Air-brigade. How fluid the air-brigade can be use in a case of war. Are they strictly under the command of their base, or they can move and work under different base at another area.

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## Deino

And again another Brigade confirmed: The former 83rd Regiment, 28th Division is now the 83rd Brigade with 69x4x serial numbers.


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## Figaro

Brainsucker said:


> We don't talk about an imaginary war. It just a question about how the bases work in PLAAF, which is not OT, because it's a talk about PLAAF organization. The imaginary Sino - Indian clash just a case that can help the discussion. It's not the clash itself that we discuss.
> 
> This is only an example that make me confuse until now. If there is a hot war near Doklam and Sikkim, or perhaps at the western end of China, how the bases react? Should they create a new base (new command and control) near the border, or it is Lhasa or Xinjiang bases that will take command of the front lines.
> 
> I think my case is not about the war, but how PLAAF will work in operation level in this type of military operation. Should Bases only responsible inside their area of operation (which mean strictly territorial) or more fluid and can move to the frontlines when the need arise.
> 
> And how this matter will effect PLAAF Air-brigade. How fluid the air-brigade can be use in a case of war. Are they strictly under the command of their base, or they can move and work under different base at another area.


Uhh, the new reforms are mostly aimed at the more "important" eastern sectors. Until recently, the WTC severely lagged their counterparts in terms of equipment, readiness, and organization. Even know, I still don't believe the PLA places the west in high regard, especially when it comes to the PLAAF (hence the recent armored convoys). The PLA still does not view the Indian military as high of a priority versus the Americans and Japanese in the Pacific, which may be good or bad. 
PLAAF bases were in the past rather static and hence their limited operational readiness.

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## Daniel808

Brainsucker said:


> Thanks for the respond guys, it help a lot
> 
> So basically bases work like garrison? It's strictly territorial and responsible to their immediate area only?



It depends on needs and condition.

In the peace time, if a fighter from other country intrude to china airspace, of course the nearest base that will send fighters to intercept.

It's not the matter of garrison or not, but the matter of time and response.

We already see some aircraft like Strategic bomber Xian H-6K and other electronics reconnaissance aircraft from Central China airbases patrol East China sea and South China Sea.

Just like China's Navy Surface Force, we see some Chinese Navy Northern Fleet and East Fleet exercise and patrol China's South China sea territory.


In the war time, of course Aircraft from other Theater command will assist others if needed.
That's why yesterday military reform (2016 China's Military reform) they build Joint Command Headquarters for their Naval and Air power.
For this purpose

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## samsara

samsara said:


> *China to appoint new air force commander, sources say*
> 
> Ding Laihang, who turns 60 next month, is tipped to take the top job when Ma Xiaotian retires
> 
> SCMP - 23 August, 2017
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Lieutenant General Ding Laihang is expected to be China’s next air force commander, sources say. __Photo: Handout_​
> China is expected to appoint a new air force commander as part of a People’s Liberation Army leadership reshuffle ahead of the national congress in autumn, sources said.
> 
> The front runner to lead the country’s 420,000-strong air force is Lieutenant General Ding Laihang, three separate sources told the South China Morning Post.
> 
> Ding, who will turn 60 next month, has held the top air force job in the Northern Theatre Command since last year. He is tipped to succeed Ma Xiaotian, 68, who has been the air force commander since 2012 and is expected to retire.
> 
> Ding was previously air force commander of the Shenyang Military Region from 2012.
> 
> An announcement on the appointment would be made soon, according to a diplomatic source.
> 
> Two other rising stars in the air force – Lieutenant General Yi Xiaoguang, deputy chief of the joint staff, and Lieutenant General Ma Zhenjun, chief of staff of the air force – had both previously been seen as strong contenders for the job.
> 
> “Ding was generally considered the third preference after Yi and Ma Zhenjun to take over from Ma Xiaotian,” one of the sources said.
> 
> Analysts have noted that Yi, 59, is a more experienced candidate than Ding. But if President Xi Jinping was looking for a younger general to lead the air force then he might go for 55-year-old Ma Zhenjun, who holds the same rank as Ding.
> 
> Ma Zhenjun was the youngest leading military officer with the air force when he took over the top job at what was then the Beijing Military Region in 2012.
> 
> Ding’s career overlapped with Xi’s in Fujian province in the early 2000s. In 2001, Ding became chief of staff of the Eighth Corps based in Fuzhou, and the same year went on to lead the air force in the city.
> 
> Xi was governor of the province from 2000 to 2002.
> 
> Ding graduated from the PLA’s Air Force Command College. He became president of the college in 2007 and a year later took over as air force chief of staff of the then Chengdu Military Command.
> 
> The change would follow a reshuffle of the navy leadership in January, when Rear Admiral Shen Jinlong was a surprise pick to take over as new commander.
> 
> A front runner for that job, Vice Admiral Yuan Yubai was named head of the Southern Theatre Command, which oversees the South China Sea.
> 
> Pundits will be closely watching to see whether Yi and Ma Zhenjun are given other top jobs in the military.
> 
> Retired PLA major general Xu Guangyu, who is based in Shanghai, noted that the air force had made rapid progress in recent years, particularly with the success of its J-20 stealth fighters.
> 
> Three Chinese-made J-20s made their debut flight during a parade to mark the PLA’s 90th anniversary at a training base in Inner Mongolia last month.
> 
> “Apart from upgrading the hardware, one of the most challenging tasks for the new air force commander will be to improve the quality of its pilots,” said Xu, adding that Ma Xiaotian had made significant progress in this area in recent years.
> 
> China is trying to streamline its army, but it is expanding the navy and air force.





Figaro said:


> SCMP is notoriously inaccurate. They said that Li Zuocheng would be the new Vice-Chairman of CMC; he turned out to be chief staff.



The above news piece from the South China Morning Post was accurate! Ding Laihang 丁来杭 is the new Commander of the PLA Air Force. Read the news here.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> The above news piece from the South China Morning Post was accurate! Ding Laihang 丁来杭 is the new Commander of the PLA Air Force. Read the news here.


I was referring to how SCMP said that Li Zuocheng was going to become the new CMC Vice-Chairman, when he actually became the new PLA Chief-of-Staff. SCMP usually does not get things accurate


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## grey boy 2

H-6K 1st time spotted with 2 new "KD-20A criuse missiles" and "KD-63B" mid range land attack missiles
战神H-6K携挂KD-20A新型巡航导弹首次曝光！

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## JSCh

*Air Force set on long-range mission*
By Zhao Lei | China Daily | Updated: 2017-09-05 07:54













*
New commander pledges more exercises with foreign militaries*

The Chinese Air Force will continue to transform from a territorial air defense unit into an extended arm capable of protecting national interests wherever they exist, according to its new commander.

Lieutenant General Ding Laihang said that as China becomes stronger and security challenges continue to emerge, the military is striving to ensure it can safeguard national interests anywhere in the world.

"In the past, our strategies and guidelines focused on territorial air defense. Now we have been shifting our attention to honing our ability in terms of long-range strategic projection and long-range strike," he told China National Radio for an article published on Sunday.

"A strategic force must go out," he said. "We will continue to carry out long-distance training over oceans."

Ding's predecessor, General Ma Xiaotian, who stepped down in late August, had earlier said the Air Force "cannot simply guard on land and not fly out" in response to questions on Japan's concerns about the People's Liberation Army's "increasing activities" over the Sea of Japan.

Ma said it is normal for the PLA Air Force to conduct training exercises over the sea, adding that "the Sea of Japan is not Japan's sea".

Not long after Ma's comments, six Chinese H-6K bombers flew through the Miyako Strait between the islands of Okinawa and Miyako in the East China Sea and approached the Kii Peninsula. This was the first time the PLA Air Force had flown that route, Japanese media reported.

In Sunday's article, Ding pledged that the Air Force will intensify its realistic aerial combat drills and continue to carry out exercises with foreign militaries.

Wang Yanan, editor of Aerospace Knowledge magazine, said the Air Force will have two priorities as it moves toward becoming a capable strategic force.

"First, as a lot of new aircraft have been delivered, it must figure out how to make these new planes combat-ready as soon as possible and how to maintain them, as they are different from the old types," he said.

"For instance, the Air Force now has Y-20 heavy-lift transport jets, but it needs to design methods and gain experience when it comes to airdropping armored vehicles," he said. "Owning advanced weapons doesn't equate to being able to use them well."

The second priority is that the Air Force must improve its capabilities in coordinating different types of aircraft and air defense missiles in an operation, and also nurture joint operation capabilities with other services, like the PLA Navy and Rocket Force, Wang added.

Citing the new-generation strategic bomber that is under development, Wang suggested the Air Force start studying the plane's usage in future warfare and work closely with designers to make sure the engine and flight-control system are good and reliable.

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## samsara

A leased life for the old birds 

The pilot students of Xi'an Flight Academy were training with the old J-7E _should be the even older aircraft_, *J-7B*, _corrected as per Deino's info. Thanks for that!_

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904715022730977281

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## Deino

samsara said:


> A leased life for the old birds
> 
> The pilot students of Xi'an Flight Academy were training with the old *J-7E*.
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/904715022730977281




Wrong ... these are even older J-7B !

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## grey boy 2

H-6K

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## Deino

Any info from what unit this J-8F is ??

https://img.supmil.net/data/attachment/forum/201709/10/192456zy6yk01zy0yh6hdu.jpg


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## grey boy 2

Two interesting news messages
A 5th generation carrier borne fighter jet will be unveiled mid of next year from the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group 成飞好忙！赢者通吃？ 






A new heavy attack helicopter that is much advance than the Z-10 attack helicopter will be launch next year since this message was from 2016 去年的消息。估计可能是重型武直，明年也许能看到了




http://photo.weibo.com/1240246333/talbum/detail/photo_id/4150713103957847#4150713103957847

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## Figaro

grey boy 2 said:


> Two interesting news messages
> A 5th generation carrier borne fighter jet will be unveiled mid of next year from the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group 成飞好忙！赢者通吃？
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new heavy attack helicopter that is much advance than the Z-10 attack helicopter will be launch next year since this message was from 2016 去年的消息。估计可能是重型武直，明年也许能看到了
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://photo.weibo.com/1240246333/talbum/detail/photo_id/4150713103957847#4150713103957847


Are you referring to the winner between J-20 and FC-31? Or a completely new carrier fighter?


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## Brainsucker

Figaro said:


> Are you referring to the winner between J-20 and FC-31? Or a completely new carrier fighter?



It's Chengdu, so perhaps it's J-20 AC version. But maybe a new Chengdu AC fighter.

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## JSCh

​*PLA aims to inspire youth with use of advanced aircraft, weapons in Sky Hunter *
By Yang Sheng Source:Global Times Published: 2017/9/10 18:18:39



Li Chen, director and leading character of the movie _Sky Hunter_ Photo: IC

After _Wolf Warrior II_, a popular action movie which broke the record of box office in China, another military movie _Sky Hunter_, produced jointly by the People's Liberation Army Air Force and civilian film companies, is ready to hit the screens on September 30, and the most advanced home-grown stealth fighter jet J-20 makes its first appearance in a movie.

In the future, Chinese military movies or war films will no longer merely stick to the stories about the past, like the Long March, World War II, War of Liberation and so on. More modern and fictional topics will be exploited for film productions and the PLA will also participate more deeply in film production because it can use the medium to introduce the progress of the military modernization of China and attract more young people to serve in the PLA, said Beijing-based military movie critic Dong Feng.

Lieutenant Colonel Zhang Li, a producer of _Sky Hunter_ as well as an officer of the PLA Air Force, told the Global Times that "the original intention of the PLA Air Force to produce this movie is simple. We don't intend to make money; we want to use it to tell the people, especially the youth, what the PLA Air Force is like and what it can do to protect the country in this era and the future."

"Unfortunately, in the past, we didn't treat the publicity seriously, and we didn't produce successful films to shape the air force's image among the people. Interestingly, many young people who applied to become PLA fighter jet pilots were inspired by US-made Hollywood movies like _Top Gun_. Therefore, we have to produce a movie about the PLA Air Force that can touch the heart of our own people," Zhang said.

According to the trailer of the film, the PLA Air Force has used its advanced aircraft and main combat weapons to support the filming. The fighter jets including J-20, J-10C, J-11, J-11B and J-16 can be seen in the trailer. Some foreign fighter jets like US-made F-15 and France-made Mirage are also displayed in the air combat with the PLA fighter jets.

Apart from fighter jets, other aircraft like Y-20 heavy transport aircraft, KJ-500 early warning aircraft and CH-5 surveillance/strike drone are also shown in the trailer. Zhang told the Global Times that "the biggest difference between _Sky Hunter_ and _Wolf Warrior_ is that the latter is produced by civilian film companies and they have no support from the PLA, so there is no comparison between these two movies in terms of equipment."

Senior Colonel Chen Hao, the chief planner of the film and the deputy head of the publicity bureau under the Political Work Department of the PLA Air Force, said that "in the past we could only use very basic ground force weapons like tanks and artilleries to produce a war film. Since China's military modernization has made so many remarkable achievements, it is time for us to use thrilling weapons to make an inspiring movie."

The story line of the film is also innovative, and Zhang said the movie will start a new era of Chinese military films, because this is the first time for the Chinese military forces to conduct large-scale military combat operations abroad for a movie.

But some Net users raised questions about the story after watching the trailer. The trailer shows that the story is about counterterrorism, but "fighter jets are not built for counterterrorism, so the story might not be very credible."

"The story is mainly about counterterrorism but how we use advanced aircraft like J-20 and J-10C in a counterterrorism mission becomes a challenge for the scriptwriters. Therefore, we decided to make the story bigger: a fictional country in Central Asia faces a serious terrorist crisis planned by military officers as well as both domestic and foreign terrorists. Then the government which fails to address the crisis, asks China to launch military intervention to save the country and also safeguard regional peace," Zhang said.

"Chinese citizens in the fictional country have been kidnapped by the rebels and kept as hostages in a missile launching base which the rebels seized from the government, and the rebels and terrorists threaten to use the ballistic missiles against China. In this kind of a situation which requires strong capability for fast response, the PLA Air Force becomes the only force that China can rely on," Zhang elaborated. 

The movie can also reflect the PLA's vision and idea for modern warfare and the use of air force in the future, Zhang noted. "The operation in the film is not just about a group of pilots or soldiers, but a whole combat operation system including fighter jets, airborne special forces, satellite, UAVs (drone), early warning aircraft and so on. It displays our vision on the combination of space and aeronautics," Zhang further said.

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## leapx

I hope Sky hunter has a good script. I hate movies with a lot special effects while fail to tell a story.

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## samsara

leapx said:


> I hope Sky hunter has a good script. I hate movies with a lot special effects while fail to tell a story.


Me is simpler i just hope that the movie Sky Hunter 空天猎 will soon be released internationally after being screened domestically, furnished fully with the Engsub like the standard practice with other movies going into int'l markets e.g. The Biopic of Qian Xuesen (Hsue-shen Tsien) 2012, The 1911 Revolution (The Xinhai Revolution) etc.

Being entertaining and possibly informative, that's all... after all it's a movie, not even a Documentary movie... The "007" James Bond storylines were full of sh*ts all the years  yet movie-goers still like them... thus I won't burden any movie with such senses...  in fact I enjoy most the fictitious old-style Wuxia movies with the ancient settings (some effects ok but not overdone)

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## grey boy 2

H-6K bomber

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## cnleio

grey boy 2 said:


> Two interesting news messages
> A 5th generation carrier borne fighter jet will be unveiled mid of next year from the Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group 成飞好忙！赢者通吃？
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A new heavy attack helicopter that is much advance than the Z-10 attack helicopter will be launch next year since this message was from 2016 去年的消息。估计可能是重型武直，明年也许能看到了
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://photo.weibo.com/1240246333/talbum/detail/photo_id/4150713103957847#4150713103957847


Nothing more important than China H-20 stealth bomber out !!!!!!!

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## samsara

cnleio said:


> Nothing more important than China H-20 stealth bomber out !!!!!!!


Truly Long-Range Strategic Bomber with Nuke strike capability (>10K~14K kilometers) AND Type 096 SSBN + JL-3 SLBM forming the highly credible TRIAD nuclear deterrence ==> These TWO capabilities are the most important within the near future!

If one read some diabolical plans of those "earthling gods" like this one, _The Reset_, then the highly credible MAD capability is the only measure that those psychopaths may grasp... a capability to destroy their own bunker-down dens and hideout, safe-havens in many smaller countries may deter them from taking the suicidal solutions... no they don't reside in D.C... we aren't dealing with the normal human, not the state-actors, not the political class or the uniformed ones that we know but the paramount power behind the scenes held by the psychopathic "earthling gods" channelling through their myriad of field operators and front-men segregated at various levels and Agencies -- MATRIX applied!


> _For example, content pertaining to *Nuclear destruction of Russia* is authored by those with working knowledge of such. The reader should understand content *is not theoretical*, *actual power factions are presently and actively pursuing this proven solution, as they believe such a war is winnable. *That also highlights the level of desperation at the Top. _~ The Reset



P.S. Which force will be insane enough to attack China on its own land or nearby its own waters using the conventional forces aside from using the _unprovoked sudden massive First Nuclear Strike_ to try to _*decapitate*_ that giant nation to maintain the absolute primacy??? One should observe what happens in Europe to grasp what's going on in Asia and vice versa. The steps are just mirroring each other... the encirclement, the BMD installations... keep on watching!​

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## grey boy 2

Chinese private enterprises produced the world's largest overall titanium alloy frame for military aircraft thats at the world's most advance level (中国民企制造出全世界最大的整体钛合金框用于军用飞机上)

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## Deino

cnleio said:


> Nothing more important than China H-20 stealth bomber out !!!!!!!




But why is then "allegedly" CAC mentioned?

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## grey boy 2

PS: i'm not responsible for whether this is a new picture, just posted what i found interesting

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## grey boy 2

J-20

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## grey boy 2

HD (1080)pictures of J-20

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> HD (1080)pictures of J-20




Oh come on ! Why again these images ??? They all have been posted long, long ago by Yourself in the J-20 thread and this is not even an operational aircraft but only one in yellow primer.

I admire Your postings most of all but sometimes I have the feeling if there's nothing new out You only post random images You see in any random thread they fit just for the sake of posting??

Deino

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Oh come on ! Why again these images ??? They all have been posted long, long ago by Yourself in the J-20 thread and this is not even an operational aircraft but only one in yellow primer.
> 
> I admire Your postings most of all but sometimes I have the feeling if there's nothing new out You only post random images You see in any random thread they fit just for the sake of posting??
> 
> Deino


We haven't seen a single new J-20 image in almost 3 weeks. At this point, any new image would quench our thirst, even if it isn't 2021


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## grey boy 2

Deino said:


> Oh come on ! Why again these images ??? They all have been posted long, long ago by Yourself in the J-20 thread and this is not even an operational aircraft but only one in yellow primer.
> 
> I admire Your postings most of all but sometimes I have the feeling if there's nothing new out You only post random images You see in any random thread they fit just for the sake of posting??
> 
> Deino


Ok, no more posting from me, i believed you're the most demanding so-called moderator on this forum that will expecting members the standard of posting like yourself which will be rewarded with money
Plenty of military sub forums on PDF kept reposting images or news articles without getting rude responses from other moderators

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> Ok, no more posting from me, i believed you're the most demanding so-called moderator on this forum that will expecting members the standard of posting like yourself which will be rewarded with money
> Plenty of military sub forums on PDF kept reposting images or news articles without getting rude responses from other moderators



Why so much offended esp. since I directly admitted that I appreciate most of Your post.

I only cannot understand - and here You are wrong, others get their "call" in the same way like You - that You so often re-post images, that are either old, already posted more than one - sometimes even by Yourself - and in the wrong thread.

If You are now so much offended that You won't contribute anymore than I regret and do not understand Your decision ...
Otherwise You personnel insult is once again way off ... 

Deino


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## Deino

Impressive video from the Shaheen VI exercise ... including a J-8F doing a barrel-roll ! 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/910760952236097536
+ J-11B from the 111. Brigade ... but why the hell arming such a formidable fighter with rocket pods !??

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## Deino

Just found ... a bit late but anyway I'm impressed and a bit proud too.

http://cimsec.org/chinese-warplanes-combat-aircraft-units-chinese-air-force-naval-aviation/33638


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/910905044563894272

Deino

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## JSCh

​

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## samsara

*ZHURIHE PARADE: 3×J-20 & 3×J-16, a formidable lineup in the PLA 90th anniversary parade*





_dafeng cao @xinfengcao 2017-09-28_

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## grey boy 2



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## grey boy 2

From the movie "空天猎" #李晨电影空天猎#

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## Daniel808

*LuHan - A Childlike Heart Chasing the Dream MV (Sky Hunter Movie ending theme song)*





Nice song  Cannot wait to see this movie in cinema


















Really Worth to watch, to know what is China's Air Force today !
After years of massif Modernization, China's Air Force today is Different from what you thought before.

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## grey boy 2

This is real, not PS, six Chinese H-6K bombers passed by north side of Okinawa Island of Japan
这不是PS的！中国空军轰-6K疑飞越冲绳岛南端
8月24日，东部战区空军航空兵某部约6架H-6K组成编队穿越宫古海峡首次赴日本四国岛南部海域进行远洋训练，显示出中国空军远洋训练又有新的突破。据@空军发布 的图片显示，H-6K编队右后方的远处出现若干陆地和岛屿的踪迹，研判有可能为冲绳岛南端，飞机当时由东北向西南方向飞行。由于该岛设有美军和空自的大型航空基地，因此这次对H-6K编队进行监视伴飞的飞机中很可能就有从空自那霸基地起飞的F-15J。图文来源：huitong

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## grey boy 2

JH-7A bomber fighter

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> This is real, not PS, six Chinese H-6K bombers passed by north side of Okinawa Island of Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh my good. Once again a stupid fan-boy with too much time and no talent.

This image is such an obvious and sloppy photoshop, you can see the white background from where they cropped that H6 photo from original.

I really don' t understabd these stupid guys.

Deino


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## grey boy 2

Deino said:


> Oh my good. Once again a stupid fan-boy with too much time and no talent.
> 
> This image is such an obvious and sloppy photoshop, you can see the white background from where they cropped that H6 photo from original.
> 
> I really don' t understabd these stupid guys.
> 
> Deino


So now ("图文来源：huitong"= pictures and contents from huitong) has became stupid fanboy with too much time and no talent
I'm sure or any real Chinese military fans will agreed that he's way more credible than you

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## ozranger

grey boy 2 said:


> So now ("图文来源：huitong"= pictures and contents from huitong) has became stupid fanboy with too much time and no talent
> I'm sure or any real Chinese military fans will agreed that he's way more credible than you



Not sure if the the story is true or not. But the image is definitely created using a photo editor like Photoshop. The creator is too incapable to morph the border between the pasted object, ie. H-6K, and the background, leaving it very obviously unauthentic.

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## grey boy 2

ozranger said:


> Not sure if the the story is true or not. But the image is definitely created using a photo editor like Photoshop. The creator is too incapable to morph the border between the pasted object, ie. H-6K, and the background, leaving it very obviously unauthentic.


I've no problem of if the pictures or content is legit or not, people long enough in PDF knew i don't like getting into arguments with my Chinese brothers, i only having problem for denio's rude response with the post
In fact he was using source from this same person as source to support his own claim and call this so-called NO skill fanboy as friend
If only if deino just telling me its photoshop image, i will be more than happy to accept it, like i did in the 002 aircraft carrier thread which i was told its old pictures yesterday. i said thankyou and deleted my post

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## 星海军事

grey boy 2 said:


> I've no problem of if the pictures or content is legit or not, people long enough in PDF knew i don't like getting into arguments with my Chinese brothers, i only having problem for denio's rude response with the post
> In fact he was using source from this same person as source to support his own claim and call this so-called NO skill fanboy as friend
> If only if deino just telling me its photoshop image, i will be more than happy to accept it, like i did in the 002 aircraft carrier thread which i was told its old pictures yesterday. i said thankyou and deleted my post



The first image is real while the second one is apparently photoshopped to support the author's claim of where he thought the first photo was taken.

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## Beast

In Chinese military, never take the photo too seriously. The text is always accurate while the photo there is just to illustrate the wording but not neccesary it depict or reflects exactly the wording.. 

Chinese military = Text/report > Photo/Video

That is why those who can't read Chinese but only know how see a photo knows very little of real progress of Chinese military.

For example, a credible Chinese text talks about DF-41 ICBM development but put a Topol-M photo. Non Chinese will assume its fake news or non credible. I can assure, take photo support with a pinch of salt. Most Chinese text wording reported from credible site are 99% accurate reflection about Chinese military.

Those who can't read Chinese or understand Chinese, better refrain from making too much comment from a Chinese text or video until you fully understand what's it talking about.

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## samsara

Beast said:


> In Chinese military, never take the photo too seriously. The text is always accurate while the photo there is just to illustrate the wording but not neccesary it depict or reflects exactly the wording..
> 
> Chinese military = Text/report > Photo/Video
> 
> That is why those who can't read Chinese but only know how see a photo knows very little of real progress of Chinese military.
> 
> For example, a credible Chinese text talks about DF-41 ICBM development but put a Topol-M photo. Non Chinese will assume its fake news or non credible. I can assure, take photo support with a pinch of salt. Most Chinese text wording reported from credible site are 99% accurate reflection about Chinese military.
> 
> Those who can't read Chinese or understand Chinese, better refrain from making too much comment from a Chinese text or video until you fully understand what's it talking about.


Very well said! And it's the antithesis of "_Pics or it didn't happen._" 

And when there's no intention to prove anything, thus no credible visualization is released, the thing will just pass on... sometimes until next few years, until it sees the light  Just get used to it... 


Btw with regard to to the long-range bomber exercises to the west Pacific, various references from the Chinese authority already stated very clearly that the PLAAF will conduct such long-range strategic bomber drills often and regularly, possibly few times in a month instead of the past, few times in a year. The message to every party concerned is very clear, learn to get used with China's Navy and Air Force drills in the West Pacific and any other international areas such as the Indian Ocean etc. Nothing particular, just accept those drills quietly.... just like the USA military has many drills everywhere...

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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> So now ("图文来源：huitong"= pictures and contents from huitong) has became stupid fanboy with too much time and no talent
> I'm sure or any real Chinese military fans will agreed that he's way more credible than you




What a plain stupid reply and why again this nasty penis-contest on who' the better Chinese military follower. I only noted that this image is a faje one, and in fact a badly done one too. I never said Huitong made that one ...



grey boy 2 said:


> I've no problem of if the pictures or content is legit or not, people long enough in PDF knew i don't like getting into arguments with my Chinese brothers, i only having problem for denio's rude response with the post
> In fact he was using source from this same person as source to support his own claim and call this so-called NO skill fanboy as friend
> If only if deino just telling me its photoshop image, i will be more than happy to accept it, like i did in the 002 aircraft carrier thread which i was told its old pictures yesterday. i said thankyou and deleted my post




My rude response ??? Such a stupid image alone dies not deserve anything better than a rude response.... Even more since you specificly mentioned it as "real and no fake". That's my point.

I never said this event was faked, only the image is ... And fir that there us no need to discuss since it is a fact.

Deino


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## Deino

grey boy 2 said:


> *I only noted that this image is a faje one, and in fact a badly done one too. I never said Huitong made that one ...*
> The textbook example of idiotic reply is on you, don't you understand the "*content and pictures from Huitong" meant huh?* "you said its stupid fanboy low grade PS pic"* tell me who's has became your stupid fanboy? the answer is plain simple=the author "Huitong" since the picture sourced from him correct?*
> How about just admitted you missed out the name of the source before you started leashing out with your insults?
> PS, from now on, please leave me alone on the basis i did not violated any forum rules on this Chinese defense sub forum and i will do the same to ignore you. Thanks in advance
> 
> Oh, regarding this *"Even more since you specificly mentioned it as "real and no fake"*.
> Its straightly from Huitong content, I did not added ONE word of my own



Even more prof for stupidity if you are posting anything without checking its reliability.


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## grey boy 2

Deino said:


> Even more prof for stupidity if you are posting anything without checking its reliability.


Ok, i'm stupid but at least being a honest humble messenger that will only posting what's exactly on all original sources, not like someone having different idea with other's IP rights
Again, please don't quote me again or if you insisted with your rudeness, i shall be force to post some "facts" that you may not find it too comfortable to digest, thanks in advance one more time

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## Deino

I


grey boy 2 said:


> *I only noted that this image is a faje one, and in fact a badly done one too. I never said Huitong made that one ...*
> The textbook example of idiotic reply is on you, don't you understand the "*content and pictures from Huitong" meant huh?* "you said its stupid fanboy low grade PS pic"* tell me who's has became your stupid fanboy? the answer is plain simple=the author "Huitong" since the picture sourced from him correct?*
> How about just admitted you missed out the name of the source before you started leashing out with your insults?
> PS, from now on, please leave me alone on the basis i did not violated any forum rules on this Chinese defense sub forum and i will do the same to ignore you. Thanks in advance
> 
> Oh, regarding this *"Even more since you specificly mentioned it as "real and no fake"*.
> Its straightly from Huitong content, I did not added ONE word of my own





grey boy 2 said:


> Ok, i'm stupid but at least being a honest humble messenger that will only posting what's exactly on all original sources, not like someone having different idea with other's IP rights
> Again, please don't quote me again or if you insisted with your rudeness, i shall be force to post some "facts" that you may not find it too comfortable to digest, thanks in advance one more time




Simply shut up since ut irrelevant. You posted a faked image with the special addition of being real and not faked and all I did was to show you were wrong. Period and a fact you cannot deny.

That you obce again make some fuss on that only proves your ignorance.

As such I was not critisising this event not Huitong but plain and simple your inability to accept that the original message used a faked image you did not notice.


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## Deino

Aviadarts 2017

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## yusheng



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## grey boy 2

H-6K

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/923599560122994688

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## clarkgap

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/923599560122994688


Where may I buy an electronic version of this book?

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## Deino

clarkgap said:


> Where may I buy an electronic version of this book?




There is none available ... just plain the old-school days with a book made of paper.

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## samsara

*ALL FOR SHIGATSE （XIGAZE）日喀则 ~~ THE GUARDIAN OF “THE ROOF OF THE WORLD” 世界屋脊 * 

Satellite image updated on 24 Aug shows 3 EA-03 recon UAVs, J-10, J-11, JH-7A, Il-76, Mi-17 were deployed at *Shigatse airport* via huitong.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/916160874083057664
Update: J-10s & KJ-500 AEW aircraft deployed at *Shigatse airport* on 20 Sept.

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## ashok321

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/th...e-1700-combat-aircraft-ready-war-22940?page=3


The People’s Liberation Army Air Force of China and its sister branch, the PLA Naval Air Force, operate a huge fleet of around 1,700 combat aircraft—defined here as fighters, bombers and attack planes. This force is exceeded only by the 3,400 active combat aircraft of the U.S. military. Moreover, China operates a lot of different aircraft _types_ that are not well known in the West.

However, most Chinese military aircraft are inspired by or copied from Russian or American designs, so it’s not too hard to grasp their capabilities if you know their origins.

*The Soviet-Era Clones*

The Soviet Union and Communist China were best buddies during the 1950s, so Moscow transferred plenty of technology including tanks and jet fighters. One of the early Chinese-manufactured types was the J-6, a clone of the supersonic MiG-19, which has a jet intake in the nose. Though China built thousands of J-6s, all but a few have been retired. However, about 150 of a pointy-nosed ground-attack version, the Nanchang Q-5, remain in service, upgraded to employ precision-guided munitions.


Sino-Soviet friendship ended in an ugly breakup around 1960. But in 1962, the Soviets offered China a dozen hot new MiG-21 fighters as part of a peace overture. Beijing rejected the overture but kept the fighters, which were reverse-engineered into the sturdier (but heavier) Chengdu J-7. Production began slowly due to the chaos of the Cultural Revolution, but between 1978 and 2013 Chinese factories turned out thousands of the pencil-fuselage jet fighters in dozens of variants. Nearly four hundred still serve in the PLAAF and PLANAF.


The J-7 is a 1950s-era hot rod in terms of maneuverability and speed—it can keep up with an F-16 at Mach 2—but it cannot carry much fuel or armament, and it has a weak radar in its tiny nose cone. Still, China has worked to keep the J-7 relevant. The J-7G introduced in 2004 includes an Israeli doppler radar (detection range: thirty-seven miles) and improved missiles for beyond-visual range capabilities, as well as a digital “glass cockpit.”


These aircraft would struggle against modern fourth-generation fighters that can detect and engage adversaries at much greater ranges, though hypothetically mass formations could attempt to overwhelm defenders with swarm attacks. Still, the J-7s allow China to maintain a larger force of trained pilots and support personnel until new designs come into service.

*China’s B-52*

Another Soviet-era clone is the Xi’an H-6, a twin-engine strategic bomber based on the early-1950s era Tu-16 Badger. Though less capable than the U.S.B-52 or Russian Tu-95 Bear bombers, the air-refuelable H-6K remains relevant because it could lug heavy long-range cruise-missiles hit naval or ground targets as far as four thousand miles from China without entering the range of air defenses. The H-6 was originally tasked with dropping nuclear weapons, but the PLAAF no longer seems interested in this role. Xi’an is reportedly developing a new H-20 strategic bomber, though there’s little information available so far.

*Domestic Innovations*

In the mid-1960s, China began working on genuinely home-designed combat jets, leading to the Shenyang J-8 debuting in 1979. A large twin-turbojet supersonic interceptor that could attain Mach 2.2 and resembled a cross between the MiG-21 and the larger Su-15, the J-8 lacked modern avionics and maneuverability. However, the succeeding J-8II variant (about 150 currently serving) improved on the former with an Israeli radar in a new pointy-nose cone, making it a fast but heavy weapons platform a bit like the F-4 Phantom. Around 150 are still operational.

The two-hundred-plus Xi’an JH-7 Flying Leopards, which entered service in 1992, are beefy two-seat naval-attack fighter-bombers that can lug up to twenty thousand pounds of missiles and have a top speed of Mach 1.75. Though they wouldn’t want to get in a dogfight with opposing contemporary fighters, they may not have to if they can capitalize on long-range antiship missiles.

The Chengdu J-10 Vigorous Dragon, by contrast, is basically China’s F-16 Fighting Falcon, a highly maneuverable, lightweight multirole fighter leaning on fly-by-wire avionics to compensate for its aerodynamically unstable airframe. Currently dependent on Russian AL-31F turbofans, and coming several decades after the F-16 debuted, the J-10 seems may not seem earthshaking, but the J-10B model comes out of the box with twenty-first-century avionics such as advanced infrared search-and-track systems and a cutting-edge Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar, which cannot be said for all F-16 types. However, the fleet of 250 J-10s has suffered several deadly accidents possibly related to difficulties in the fly-by-wire system.

*The Flanker Comes to China—And Stays There*

After the dissolution of the Soviet Union, a Russia starved for cash and no longer concerned about ideological disputes was happy to oblige when Beijing came knocking at the door asking to buy then state-of-the-art Sukhoi Su-27 fighters, a highly maneuverable twin-engine jet comparable to the F-15 Eagle with excellent range and payload. This proved a fateful decision: today a sprawling family of aircraft derived from the Su-27 form the core of China’s modern fighter force.

After importing the initial batch of Su-27s, Beijing purchased a license to domestically build their own copy, the Shenyang J-11—but to Russia’s dismay, began independently building more advanced models, the J-11B and D.

Moscow felt burned, but still sold seventy-six modernized ground- and naval-attack variants of the Flanker, the Su-30MKK and Su-30MK2 respectively, which parallel the F-15E Strike Eagle. Chinese designers also churned out their own derivative of the Su-30: the Shenyang J-16 Red Eagle, boasting an AESA radar, and the Shenyang J-15 Flying Shark, a carrier-based fighter based on a Russian Su-33 acquired from Ukraine. Around twenty now serve on China’s Type 001 aircraft carrier _Liaoning_. There’s even the J-16D, a jamming pod-equipped electronic-warfare fighter styled after the U.S. Navy’sEA-18 Growler.

The Chinese Sukhoi derivatives are theoretically on par with the fourth-generation fighters like the F-15 and F-16. However, they are saddled with domestic WS-10 turbofan engines, which have had terrible maintenance problems and difficulty producing enough thrust. Jet-engine tech remains the chief limitation of Chinese combat aircraft today. Indeed, in 2016 China purchased twenty-four Su-35s, the most sophisticated and maneuverable variant of the Flanker so far—likely to obtain their AL-41F turbofans engines.

*The Stealth Fighters*

In a remarkably short timeframe, China developed two distinct stealth fighter designs. Twenty Chengdu J-20s entered PLAAF service in 2017. Unlike the F-22 Raptor, designed to be the ultimate air superiority fighter, or the single-engine multirole F-35 Lightning, the J-20 is a huge twin-engine beast optimized for speed, range and heavy weapons loads at the expense of maneuverability.

The J-20 might be suitable for surprise raids on land or sea targets—though its larger rear-aspect radar cross section could be problematic—or to sneak past enemy fighters to take out vulnerable support tankers or AWACs radar planes. Special-mission stealth fighters make sense for a country that is only just getting into the business of operating such technically demanding aircraft.

Meanwhile, the smaller, privately developed Shenyang J-31 Gyrfalcon (or FC-31) is basically a twin-engine remodeling of the F-35 Lightning—quite possibly using schematics hacked off Lockheed computers. Chinese designers may have developed an aerodynamically superior airframe by ditching elements supporting vertical-takeoff-or-landing engines. However, the J-31 probably won’t boast the fancy sensors and data fusion capabilities of the Lightning.

Currently, the J-31 appears intended for service on upcoming Type 002 aircraft carriers, and for export as a cut-price F-35 alternative. However, while there are flying Gyrfalcon prototypes with Russian engines, the type may only begin production when sufficiently reliable Chinese WS-13 turbofans are perfected.

*Towards the Future*

Roughly 33 percent of the PLAAF and PLANAF’s combat aircraft are old second-generation fighters of limited combat value against peer opponents, save perhaps in swarming attacks. Another 28 percent include strategic bombers and more capable but dated third-generation designs. Finally, 38 percent are fourth-generation fighters that can theoretically hold their own against peers like the F-15 and F-16. Stealth fighters account for 1 percent.

However, the technical capabilities of aircraft are just half the story; at least as important are training, organizational doctrine and supporting assets ranging from satellite recon to air-refueling tankers, ground-based radars and airborne command posts.

For example, China has the intel resources, aircraft and missiles to hunt aircraft carriers. However, the doctrine and experience to link these elements together to form a kill chain is no simple matter. A 2016 Rand report alleges Chinese aviation units are scrambling to reverse a lack of training under realistic conditions and develop experience in joint operations with ground and naval forces.

At any rate, Beijing seems in no rush to replace all its older jets with new ones. Major new acquisitions may wait until the Chinese aviation industry has smoothed out the kinks in its fourth-generation and stealth aircraft.

_Sébastien Roblin holds a Master’s Degree in Conflict Resolution from Georgetown University and served as a university instructor for the Peace Corps in China. He has also worked in education, editing, and refugee resettlement in France and the United States. He currently writes on security and military history for __War Is Boring__._

Image: A "Guying" stealth fighter participates in a test flight in Shenyang, Liaoning province, October 31, 2012. China's second stealth fighter jet that was unveiled this week is part of a programme to transform China into the top regional military power, an expert on Asian security said on Friday. The fighter, the J-31, made its maiden flight on Wednesday in the northeast province of Liaoning at a facility of the Shenyang Aircraft Corp which built it, according to Chinese media. Picture taken October 31, 2012. REUTERS/Stringer


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## clarkgap

Old report. China has over 950 fourth generation fighter now.

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## clarkgap

Delete


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## JSCh

New recruit graduation jump.

























​

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## Figaro

clarkgap said:


> Old report. China has over 950 fourth generation fighter now.


It's the National Interest ... what more did you expect from such a low quality magazine?

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## samsara

*GX-6 Anti-submarine Patrol Aircraft*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/926361686897856512




Y-8GX-6 / Kongqian 空潜 KQ-200 ASW

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## samsara

*Focus Today [今日关注] 20171106 CCTV-4 - Short Clip (<4')*




Contents: Golden Helmet 2017; J-20 (Engsub)

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## JSCh

Nice video for PLAAF birthday 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/928902570696773632

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## yusheng



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## JSCh



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## samsara

JSCh said:


> Nice video for PLAAF birthday
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/928902570696773632


It's very cool, high quality video  just grabbed a copy to share with others through other means 



JSCh said:


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WOW! A very cool series of pictures  also worth to share through other means. Thank you!

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## clarkgap

A PLAAF jet trainer crashed due to birds strike. Two pilots ejected safely.

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## samsara

*Watch: PLA Air Force posts a video to welcome the 68th anniversary of
its founding on November 11 and introduce its development to the world.*

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## yusheng



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## samsara

#OnThisDay in 1949, Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force was officially formed and has since become a modern strategic force. CGTN‏ @CGTNOfficial 2017-11-11

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929216218120126464。。。

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## JSCh



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## Deino

With greetings from Telford/UK, where I just found the current AFM with my latest report: Following the history in part 1, part 2 includes the PLAAF today and its current Orbat.

Deino

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## Zarvan

Chinese Y-20 transport aircraft
Global Times on Friday ahead of 68th anniversary of the PLA Air Force on Saturday.

"The formation flights of the J-20 and Y-20 mean that their designs have been finalized, are ready for mass production and are combat-ready," Song Zhongping, a Phoenix TV commentator and military expert, told the Global Times Friday.

The official announcement of the finalization and mass production is still to be made by the PLA.

Training in formation is the aircrafts' second phase, with the first being standalone flights, Xu Guangyu, a senior adviser of the China Arms Control and Disarmament Association, told the Global Times Friday.

The J-20, a stealth fighter jet independently developed by China, was officially commissioned on September 28. The aircraft is the country's fourth-generation medium-to-long- range fighter jet, the Xinhua News Agency reported.

The Y-20, which made its maiden flight in July 2016, has a maximum takeoff weight of 200 tons, and is ideal for transporting cargo and personnel over long distances in diverse weather conditions, Xinhua reported.

Many pilots are able to fly new types of fighters, which means a few units of the PLA Air Force have multiple fighters and pilots who can fly different types of fighters.

Previously, Chinese fighter pilots could only fly a single type, Zhang Jingting, deputy director of the Chinese Flight Test Establishment, told the Global Times on Friday.

"The ability to fly different types of fighters could benefit the development and operational performance of weapons," Zhang said.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/21...eady_for_Mass_Production__Expert#.WggTMGiCxPY

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## Zarvan



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## Deino

Zarvan said:


>




OMG ... still these completely wrong models.


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## Zarvan

Deino said:


> OMG ... still these completely wrong models.


I am not good at these things can you tell what is wrong here ???


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## Deino

Zarvan said:


> I am not good at these things can you tell what is wrong here ???



I think this alone demonstrates the worst errors quite clearly... the radome/nose is a bad caricature of the real one, the canopy is a mess, the intake-area behind the canopy leading into the intake and wings ... 

For me as if a third rate modeller was allowed to make that model.

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## Beast

Deino said:


> I think this alone demonstrates the worst errors quite clearly... the radome/nose is a bad caricature of the real one, the canopy is a mess, the intake-area behind the canopy leading into the intake and wings ...
> 
> For me as if a third rate modeller was allowed to make that model.
> 
> View attachment 436629


Take it or leave it Deino. Accurate modelling is not part of any sales marketing for Chinese military consortium. No top military head will just reject your stuff just because of inaccurate modelling. Accurate description by one to one sales representative to head of delegate is the real key.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> Take it or leave it Deino. Accurate modelling is not part of any sales marketing for Chinese military consortium. No top military head will just reject your stuff just because of inaccurate modelling. Accurate description by one to one sales representative to head of delegate is the real key.



I know and we already had this discussion with the conclusion that we both "agree to disagree" ... anyway IMO still the wrong way of marketing and that this model is plain wrong is beyond any discussion.


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## Beast

Deino said:


> I know and we already had this discussion with the conclusion that we both "agree to disagree" ... anyway IMO still the wrong way of marketing and that this model is plain wrong is beyond any discussion.


That is you opinion but will not change anything about how AVIC market their sales and no impact on professionalism of sales marketing for China.


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## Deino




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## siegecrossbow

https://lt.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2421691&extra=page=1



> 中国人民解放军西部战区空军某部澧县王家厂籍飞行员、飞行中队长黄鹏11月7日驾机飞行训练，突遭飞机事故，黄鹏为挽救保护战机，舍弃最佳逃生机会，最终英勇牺牲，年仅30岁。今天上午，黄鹏的英灵随家人从新疆和田空军某地启程辗转乌鲁木齐、长沙然后返澧。黄鹏是祖国的骄傲！是人民空军的骄傲！更是澧县人民的骄傲！！！



People's Liberation Army Air Force pilot Huang Peng died trying to salvage his J-11B when an accident occurred during a routine training on November 7th.

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## Deino

May he R.I.P.

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## Han Patriot

Beast said:


> Take it or leave it Deino. Accurate modelling is not part of any sales marketing for Chinese military consortium. No top military head will just reject your stuff just because of inaccurate modelling. Accurate description by one to one sales representative to head of delegate is the real key.


You can't blame Deino, Germans are very particular to details, preceision and accuracy, therein lies the difference in our technological level.

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## Beast

Han Patriot said:


> You can't blame Deino, Germans are very particular to details, preceision and accuracy, therein lies the difference in our technological level.


That has nothing to do with technology level. More to do with what is being prioritize. When you are running a project, there is not such thing called all areas of project that included marketing being prioritize and given equal sum of money to be carry out.

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## AmirPatriot

samsara said:


> #OnThisDay in 1949, Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force was officially formed and has since become a modern strategic force. CGTN‏ @CGTNOfficial 2017-11-11
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/929216218120126464。。。



How did the PLAAF get P-51s?


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## Deino

AmirPatriot said:


> How did the PLAAF get P-51s?



These were taken over from the nationalists.

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## Ironborn

AmirPatriot said:


> How did the PLAAF get P-51s?


Probably captured from the other side during the civil war after WWII.

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## Daniel808

AmirPatriot said:


> How did the PLAAF get P-51s?



Some captured when Nationalist side retreated to Taiwan island, some others from Chinese Nationalist pilot who surrenders to the People's Republic of China side (PLAAF)

If I am not wrong, there is 39 P-51 mustang surrendered/captured to PLAAF, and some of them get service on PLAAF (1949) before they get J-2/MIG-15 from Soviet in the next year

nice one

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## samsara

PLAAF H-6K, Il-78, Su-30MKK, Y-8 EW, Tu-154
_*flew through the Bashi Strait to the Western Pacific*_
on Wednesday morning (22 Nov).

















Via dafeng cao‏ @xinfengcao 2017-11-23
。。。

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## samsara

The Chinese Air Force crossed _the first chain of islands_ for the fourth time in less than a week. This time it was the turn of 4 H-6K bombers and 1 ELINT Y-8CB aircraft that flew over the Miyako Strait.















After the photos taken by the Japanese armed forces, the Chinese Air Force also released its own photos of recent sorties from its military aircraft that crossed the first chain of islands.


















East Pendulum‏ @HenriKenhmann 2017-11-23
。。。

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## BHarwana

China’s home-grown Y-9 transport aircraft appears to be combat ready after completing its first long-distance exercise over the South China Sea.

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force announced on its social media account on Saturday that a fleet of the aircraft from the Western Theatre Command flew thousands of kilometres to simulate an airdrop over an island in the contested waters before returning the same day.

The exercise was conducted in mock combat conditions and without weather data or guidance from a command centre, the statement said.

Military observers said the exercise was an attempt to show the PLA’s ability to fend off attacks from the sea and to mobilise different theatre commands in a crisis.

The Y-9 medium-lift transport aircraft can carry up to 25 tonnes of cargo and has a range of around 7,800km.






Liu Bao, one of the PLA officers who took part in the drill, said the exercise was a complex task for the pilots and the equipment.

Retired PLA colonel Yue Gang said the long-distance drill showed the Y-9 could do airdrops anywhere in the South China Sea.

“It shows the Y-9 is a good tactical transport aircraft to deal with small incidents near these waters and can increase the Chinese military’s flexibility,” he said.

Collin Koh, a research fellow on maritime security from Nanyang Technological University in Singapore, said the deployment of aircraft from the Western Theatre Command on the border with India to the Southern Theatre Command which covers the South China Sea signalled the integration of different PLA units.



http://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...ady-plas-new-y-9-transport-planes-put-through

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## Beast

I think at least two dozen of Y-9 is in PLAAF/PLA/PLANAF service.

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## cirr

H-6N

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## Beast

I think most H-6k can be installed with a refueling rod with short notice, like the J-8F and J-10A. Its more of mission requirement.

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## cirr

New H-6K regiment in southwest China.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> New H-6K regiment in southwest China.




That could only be one of the 8th Bomber Division ... but since already the 22nd and since a few weeks/months the 24th Air Regiment are flying that type; what other unit could it be?


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## monitor

PLAAF Golden Helmet 2017 at Dingxin AB: More than 40 fighters including several J-11A, J-11B, Su-30MKK, J-10s and JH-7As can be seen on the tarmac.

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## JSCh

Latest exercise Dec 9, over miyako strait into western pacific.



















​

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/939697250359377921

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## BHarwana

A group of People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) H-6K bombers and Su-30 and J-11 fighter jets conducted a mission Monday “that circled the island of Taiwan, further improving their ability to protect national sovereignty and territorial integrity,” a PLAAF spokesman said this week, according to a fact sheet obtained by China Daily.

Taiwan, an island nation that generally considers itself independent from Beijing, might take issue with the notion that China's warplanes support its sovereignty. Beijing, however, considers Taiwan to be a wayward province that should eventually be incorporated back into China and has not ruled out using force to do so.

"Multiple bombers and reconnaissance planes have flown routes that circled the island of Taiwan," Sr. Col. Shen Jinke reportedly said. According to China Daily, the mission marked the ninth routine drill around Taiwan in the past four months, and noted that the first such circling mission occurred last December.

"The Air Force is an important force in maintaining situations, managing crises and preventing and winning wars," Shen said, noting that the PLAAF "is modernizing to become a strategic combat force capable of fighting in all of China's domain… we must expand our strategic outlook in systematic far-sea exercises, keep a sober mind, improve emergency awareness and safeguard strategic interests."

The PLAAF maintained that all flights were conducted within the limits of international laws and practices.

Beijing has routinely stated that Taiwan is the most contentious and sensitive topic between China and the US. According to the 1979 Taiwan Relations Act [TRA] passed by the US Congress, Washington expects the "future of Taiwan will be determined by peaceful means," that "any effort to determine the future of Taiwan by other than peaceful means, including boycotts and embargoes, [is] a threat to the peace and security of the Western Pacific area."

The act also states that the US expects to "maintain the capacity of the United States to resist any resort to force or other forms of coercion that would jeopardize the security, or the social or economic system, of the people of Taiwan."

The TRA is frequently pointed to as the law which lays out Washington's legal obligation to defend Taiwan, even though Washington and Taipei have no formal relationship, as per the conditions of America's relationship with Beijing.

A joint Brookings Institution and Lawfare essay by Julian Ku, though, states that the US is only obliged to sell Taiwan weapons for its own self-defense and in the event of armed conflict between China and Taiwan, "the [US] president is only legally obliged to ‘determine, in accordance with constitutional processes, appropriate action,'" Ku wrote.

The 2018 US National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) requires mutual visits by US and Taiwanese naval vessels. Speaking last Friday, Li Kexin, a senior Chinese diplomat in Washington, stated, "the day that a US Navy vessel arrives in Kaohsiung [Taiwan's main port] is the day that our People's Liberation Army unifies Taiwan with military force."



https://sputniknews.com/asia/201712131059976881-beijing-bombers-jets-encircle-taiwan/

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## clarkgap

A new image of KJ-2000. It was shot in August 1st Parade in 2017.

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## BHarwana

Several Chinese People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) aircraft passed near Taiwan at 4:40pm yesterday, with a number of Tu-154 surveillance aircraft taking a separate northbound route through Japan’s Miyako Strait, the Ministry of National Defense said.

The aircraft were part of a training mission over the Pacific Ocean that included Xian H-6K bombers, Sukhoi Su-30 fighter jets, Shaanxi Y-8 transport planes and Ilyushin Il-78 aerial refueling planes, in addition to the surveillance aircraft, the ministry said.

The formation flew over the Bashi Channel before turning back and passing through the Miyako Strait on the way back to China in what has been a recurring pattern for PLAAF training missions, the ministry said, adding that it would not be doing any follow-up reports.

Air force fighters and navy warships were dispatched in line with regular readiness procedures and to supervise the situation, it said.

There was no threat to national security, it added.

The exercise was the 10th by the PLAAF since the Chinese Communist Party held its 19th National Congress in October.

The Chinese-language Apple Daily reported that an amateur radio operator picked up an exchange between PLAAF and Taiwanese pilots, indicating a breach of Taiwanese air space by the Chinese forces.

Taiwanese fighters flew to intercept the PLAAF aircraft, which responded on an emergency frequency, saying: “This is the Chinese air force. We are conducting routine training exercises. Please do not interfere with our operations.”

“Turn back,” a Taiwanese pilot said.

The PLAAF pilot responded by repeating their original statement.

“This is a broadcast by the ROC [Republic of China] Air Force. This is a broadcast by the ROC Air Force,” the commanding officer replied. “Communist aircraft located 580km southeast over the ... sea on course 320 at altitude 8,100m, take notice: You have already entered the ROC air defense identification zone. Please immediately turn left onto course 380 and leave the area.”

The recording is the first since a PLAAF bomber pilot threatened a Taiwanese pilot on Dec. 7, telling him to “leave immediately or face the consequences.”




http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2017/12/21/2003684359

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## BHarwana

lol USA is not coming to help Taiwan.

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## litman

may be a strategy to pressurize US?


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## BHarwana

No I think China is telling Taiwan that USA is not coming and Taiwan should not bounce a lot on USA's back.

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## lcloo

More likely a responce to a law just signed by Trump to allow USN ships to berth in Taiwan ports and giving the Taiwanese navy ships the same right to berth in US ports. 

This is a breach of the One China policy by USA, and considered as interference on China's internal affair. 

Also just days ago, the political arrest of the senior members of the New party (one of Taiwan's political party) by Taiwan police for their recent visit of Mainland China (for reason of New party showing friendly gesture to Mainland China's unification policy) may add oil to fire on this event.

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## 帅的一匹

我自横刀向天笑，去留肝胆两昆仑！


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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> 我自横刀向天笑，去留肝胆两昆仑！




????? Care to give a translated summary please? All I get is something with a knife and Kunlun ...??? 

Does anyone have a better image of the J-10s and Su-30MKK's/MK2's HMS??


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## Beast

Deino said:


> ????? Care to give a translated summary please? All I get is something with a knife and Kunlun ...???
> 
> Does anyone have a better image of the J-10s and Su-30MKK's/MK2's HMS??
> 
> View attachment 444156


It's a profound Chinese poem


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## samsara

我自横刀向天笑，去留肝胆两昆仑！
"I smile to the sky, leaving the two Kunlun" (or Karakorum mountain range in Xinjiang).

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## Deino

70. Brigade at Zunhua with J-7G

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## Shahzaz ud din

*China Pakistan air force joint exercises J-8DF Mirage 5*
*



*

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## Shahzaz ud din

*China Pakistan air force joint exercises J-7PG J-11B*
*



*


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## Han Patriot

Janbaz Rao said:


> *China Pakistan air force joint exercises J-7PG J-11B*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


Chinese J-7s(Mig-21s) are still relatively well maintained because we produce the spare parts. Contrast this with the Indian Mig-21s dropping like flies.

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## BHarwana

BEIJING, Jan. 10 (Xinhua) -- Air Force of the People's Liberation Army of China has carried out real combat training, with the involvement of the J-20 stealth fighter and the Y-20 military transport aircraft, according to a military statement.

The J-20, China's fourth-generation medium and long-range fighter jet, made its maiden flight in 2011 and was officially commissioned into military service in September 2017.

Several new fighter jets including the J-16, J-10C and H-6K bombers were also included in the training, the statement said.

The training is aimed at improving the air force's capability to win battles, it said.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-01/11/c_136886057.htm


@Deino if the news is already posted please merge it.


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## cirr

removed


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## Shahzaz ud din

*J-20 fighter takes part in first combat exercises*
By Zhao Lei | China Daily | Updated: 2018-01-12 07:26


















Two J-20 fighter jets conduct an exercise. LI SHAOPENG/XINHUA
*Fifth-generation jet, pilots put to test during realistic drills*

The Chinese Air Force has deployed its best combat plane - the J-20 stealth fighter jet - to conduct exercises with other advanced jets.

The Air Force of the People's Liberation Army said in a news release on Thursday that several J-20s took part in a series of combat exercises against the less-advanced J-16 and J-10C.

The exercises took place over the past nine days at an undisclosed air base and were realistic, the release said.

The military said J-20s practiced beyond-visual-range aerial fighting maneuvers during these drills, without elaborating.

This is the first time the Air Force has confirmed that the J-20 has participated in a combat exercise. In July, the Air Force sent three J-20s to a military parade at the Zhurihe Training Base in the Inner Mongolia autonomous region and used that occasion to make public some details about the inside of the jet's cockpit for the first time.

In late September, a spokesman for the Defense Ministry confirmed at a news conference that the fifth-generation aircraft has been com-missioned to the Air Force.

Wu Peixin, an aviation industry observer in Beijing, said sending J-20s on combat exercises would not only enable its pilots to get familiar with the plane and its tactics as soon as possible, but also would help other aviators hone their skills on how to confront a cutting-edge fifth-generation jet in combat.

He said China faces a big challenge in the Asia-Pacific airspace from the F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightning II - the other stealth fighters in service - deployed by the United States and Japan respectively, so it is urgent for Chinese pilots to know how to deal with such warplanes.

China conducted the maid-en flight of the J-20 in January 2011 and declassified the plane in November 2016.

Developed by Aviation Industry Corp of China, the State-owned aircraft giant, the J-20 shoulders the heavy responsibility given by the Air Force to create space for other aircraft during an air battle, according to Zhang Hao, head of an Air Force flight-testing center that has deployed the jet.

"J-20 will be like a needle that can penetrate and break down the enemy's air-defense network," he previously told China Central Television. "The plane is a typical offensive weapon. It has good stability, stealth capability, situational awareness capacity, and fire-control systems."

Yang Wei, chief designer of the J-20, has predicted the plane will be the backbone of the PLA Air Force for the next 20 years.

zhaolei@chinadaily.com.cn


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## cirr

KJ-500X8

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## Deino

cirr said:


> KJ-500X8




wow 

Any info when this was taken?

Just found it ... a bit bigger and it was taken on 17. December







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/953441200576585733

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## 52051

PLA still order the good old H-6, this one is its the latest variation H-6K, ready to deliever.






This is H-6G, launching mach-4 YJ-12 anti-ship missiles during live-fire drill:

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/956196223257600001

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## Deino

Anyone with an idea what's this?? Said to be spotted somewhere "in Yunnan" close to year's end.

http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1889752-1-1.html

A test-bed, a model, a partially covered J-10?? ... or something new?


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## Beast

Maybe it’s the Super J-10


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea what's this?? Said to be spotted somewhere "in Yunnan" close to year's end.
> 
> http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1889752-1-1.html
> 
> A test-bed, a model, a partially covered J-10?? ... or something new?
> 
> View attachment 450164
> View attachment 450165



seems like a double delta plane or experimental drone....Interesting. China should adventure on uncharted territory
in Aerodynamic, I only hope China to develop an experimental forward swept wing jet such as SU-39

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## Deino

Beast said:


> Maybe it’s the Super J-10



The funny thing is I had a t first a similar idea, then I saw the shadow and thought it is a regular J-10, but the tail looks different ...


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## lcloo

Looks like an aircraft with canard and folded wing.

On second thought, doesn't looked like folded wing. The shadow of the tail fins remind me of the dis-continued Russian project on vertical take off fighter jet (YAK-141?), from which Russia sold the related engine veriable vertical exhaust technology to US for F-35. Just a wild guess with 2 ct.


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## Deino

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea what's this?? Said to be spotted somewhere "in Yunnan" close to year's end.
> 
> http://www.fyjs.cn/thread-1889752-1-1.html
> 
> A test-bed, a model, a partially covered J-10?? ... or something new?




*UPDATE (via SOC/CDF):* taken in November 2017 at Pingyuan (23.725094 N 103.817836 E) it is IMO not a J-10 but it is a triplane with canards, wings, tails.

Any guess?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Deino said:


> *UPDATE (via SOC/CDF):* taken in November 2017 at Pingyuan (23.725094 N 103.817836 E) it is IMO not a J-10 but it is a triplane with canards, wings, tails.
> 
> Any guess?
> 
> View attachment 450303



What is the advantage to have a triplane jet? China is trying to explore some weird flying craft, we should have X serie craft as US X-29, X31 to charted unknown scientific domain...and why not to explore some X-wing concept

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> *UPDATE (via SOC/CDF):* taken in November 2017 at Pingyuan (23.725094 N 103.817836 E) it is IMO not a J-10 but it is a triplane with canards, wings, tails.
> 
> Any guess?
> 
> View attachment 450303



Deino, what is the meaning of IMO?


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## clarkgap

Brainsucker said:


> Deino, what is the meaning of IMO?



In My Opinion.

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## ozranger

Brainsucker said:


> Deino, what is the meaning of IMO?


= in my opinion

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## yusheng

new one

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## Shahzaz ud din

*China's Su-35 fighter jets, J-20 stealth jets to maintain airspace safety*
Source:Xinhua Published: 2018/2/11 8:26:38
2






File photo shows Su-35 fighter jets are on a training. China has recently sent Su-35 fighter jets for a joint combat patrol mission in the South China Sea area, according to the People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force on Feb. 7, 2018.Photo:Xinhua

China's Su-35 fighter jets for a joint combat patrol mission in the South China Sea area and its latest J-20 stealth fighters' commission in combat service will maintain airspace safety in the new era, a military expert said Saturday.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/961479719270039554The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force announced on Wednesday that China has recently sent Su-35 fighter jets for a joint combat patrol mission in the South China Sea area.

The deployment is expected to improve the air force's adaptive capacity in complicated situation in the air and on the sea, and enhance its ability to maintain national sovereignty and security and maritime interests in the South China Sea area, said Wang Mingzhi, a professor with the PLA Air Force Command Academy.

The patrol mission is an annual training of combat readiness, embodying the air force's resolution to implement mission in the new era and firmly maintain national sovereignty and security and maritime interests, Wang said in an interview with Xinhua.

The air force will further increase real combat training on the sea and enhance the real combat capability especially under long-distance and high-sea conditions, he said.

Wang said that the air force will often carry out patrol missions and normalize the patrol in the South China Sea area.

On Friday, the air force also announced that China's latest J-20 stealth fighters have been commissioned into air force combat service.

The J-20 signals that China's air force has greatly increased its ability to deal with new security threats in airspace, and made steady progress in the aero equipment system, Wang said.

The stealth jets will enable the air force to improve ability to tackle conventional threat and enhance real combat capacity, he added.

The J-20 is China's fourth-generation medium and long-range fighter jet. It made its maiden flight in 2011 and was first shown to the public at the 11th Airshow China in Zhuhai, Guangdong Province, in November 2016.

The fighters made their parade debut when the PLA marked its 90th anniversary in July 2017 at Zhurihe military training base in Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region.

Posted in: MILITARY,CHINA FOCUS

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## kuge

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/what-pla-air-crashes-really-signal

*Experts say rising incident rate shows China flexing military might, flying more missions*
Lim Yan Liang China Correspondent In Beijing
The deadly crash of a People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) military plane in Guizhou province last month during a training exercise has raised questions about whether China's relentless push for military modernisation has outpaced its actual capabilities.

The incident, which claimed the lives of at least 12 crew members onboard, has severely hit air force morale, as it happened just weeks after the crash of a J-15 aircraft carrier-based fighter jet, a source told the South China Morning Post.

"We must recognise that in China, there is a fatal gap between the air force's combat-ready training and its imperfect aircraft development," the source said.

Despite engine and aircraft design problems, pilots have been pushed to fly the warplanes "because there is this political mission to build a combat-ready fighting force", explained the source.

The crashes are the latest in what appears to be a growing string of often-fatal accidents involving China's military planes.

While the PLA does not openly report such incidents, there were at least seven known crashes in the last two years, including one last November that killed Ms Yu Xu, one of China's first female fighter pilots.


But rather than a sign of deteriorating capabilities, military experts told The Straits Times the accident rate shows a strengthening of PLAAF and its sister branch, the PLA Naval Air Force.

*TECHNOLOGY AND CORRUPTION ISSUES AT PLAY*
The PLA's air programmes face significant challenges, not least because most of its warplanes are cloned from foreign designs.

*While China may have succeeded in cracking design secrets and technical aspects of foreign jets, it is still grappling with cutting-edge jet engine production which requires high-precision manufacturing and deep materials engineering know-how, which China lacks, said analysts.*

The J-15 fighter jet, for instance, is based on Russia's Su-33. The new J-20 and J-31 stealth planes closely resemble America's F-22 fighter jet and F-35 joint strike fighter, prompting United States lawmakers to accuse Beijing of stealing US designs.

While China may have succeeded in cracking design secrets and technical aspects of foreign jets, it is still grappling with cutting-edge engine production which requires high-precision manufacturing and deep materials engineering know-how, which China lacks, said analysts.

The use of ageing aircraft, such as the 1990s-era Tu-154, for long-distance maritime missions also shows a lack of confidence in the new models when it comes to longer missions, said S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies research fellow Wu Shang-Su.

A more deep-seated problem is the PLA's graft-riddled past, which has likely compromised the quality of its fighter jet programmes.

Former PLA chief Guo Boxiong was sentenced to life imprisonment in 2016 for having amassed a fortune in bribes.

"As vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission over the past decade, Guo was in charge of R&D (research and development) and reports were that he took 'tremendous bribes' from the defence industry," said PLA expert Arthur Ding of the Taipei-based Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies.

"If that's the case, the technology and quality of platforms like jet fighters may not meet the PLA's demands, and this can partially explain why they are suffering this kind of incident rate."

*HIGHER MISSION, TRAINING TEMPO MOST SIGNIFICANT FACTOR*
But experts agreed that the biggest contributor to the PLA's rising accident rate is that it has been tasked to take on more varied and demanding missions, alongside a vast expansion in its hardware and numbers. Since last year, the Chinese air force has conducted "island encirclement patrols" around Taiwan involving its fighter jets, bombers and surveillance planes. Such flights are the "new normal", a PLAAF spokesman said in December.

Footage from state broadcaster CCTV in recent months also shows Beijing wants to regularise deployments of combat aircraft in the South China Sea, through the air and naval facilities it has built on disputed islands there, such as on Fiery Cross Reef in the Spratlys and Woody Island in the Paracel chain.

To support the greater range and number of missions, the PLA's air assets have been significantly boosted over the past decade. China had over 700 fourth-generation fighter jets last year, compared to 24 in 1996, the US-based Rand Corporation estimated in a report. The PLA today has almost 3,000 aircraft, about the same number as that of Japan and South Korea combined, said Global Firepower, an index of countries' military strength.

"More aircraft, more personnel, more missions, more training and a higher profile - these are all major factors that account for the incident rate," said Mr Jon Grevatt, Asia-Pacific defence industry analyst for military publication IHS Jane. "One of the outcomes of the increase in these factors is unfortunately more accidents, but that holds true for all militaries around the world."

More accidents in the short term also indicate President Xi Jinping's effort to get the PLA to change its culture is succeeding, said Dr Ding.

Since he took office, Mr Xi has pushed to transform the PLA into a modern military "capable of fighting and winning" a 21st-century war.

Dr Ding noted that in the old days, PLAAF commanders would conduct highly scripted training scenarios that had minimal risk of casualties, unlike real combat scenarios, as casualty rates directly affected promotion prospects. Today's exercises are much more complex, combat-realistic and integrated. Just last month, China conducted a series of training exercises involving the spectrum of its air assets - from the new J-20 fighter to the H-6K bomber and Y-20 transport aircraft.

"My impression is that (President Xi) has encouraged the top brass to face the reality that rigorous training will mean greater likelihood of incidents, and for the PLA, this mindset shift is probably a good one," he said.

But this also means that countries in the region should be prepared for a more formidable Chinese air force in the coming years - one that is able to project air power far beyond China's borders. "It's probably not so good for China's neighbours, because down the road, in the long term, it means China's real combat and operations capability will be substantially improved.


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## Deino

Lhasa Gonggar AP ....

see also:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/963742799211282434
Reportedly recent images from the latest PLAAF deployments to Lhasa Gonggar AP ... visible are a KJ-500 AEW, several J-11A/Su-27UBK from the 16th Brigade, at least one J-10B and a Mi-171 (??).


















As promised, the new book on the Chinese Naval Aviation due out in April was only the beginning ... 

I’m proud to announce the release date for the long awaited and fully revised edition of the original book “Modern Chinese Warplanes” released in 2012.

Due out in late 2018… so stay tuned since there’s more to come 

A.R./Deino

https://www.casematepublishers.com/distributed-publishers/harpia-publishing/modern-chinese-warplanes-69383.html#.WoVZLrxl_cs

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## 帅的一匹

China need to build more runway and supporting facilities in Tibet.

@Deino Happy Chinese New Year

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## Deino

wanglaokan said:


> China need to build more runway and supporting facilities in Tibet.
> 
> @Deino Happy Chinese New Year



Thank you so much and to you and all fellow members in China too. 
A Happy and healthy Chinese New Year.

Deino

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## Brainsucker

Hi guys, happy Chinese New Years!!!!

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Lhasa Gonggar AP ....
> 
> see also:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/963742799211282434
> Reportedly recent images from the latest PLAAF deployments to Lhasa Gonggar AP ... visible are a KJ-500 AEW, several J-11A/Su-27UBK from the 16th Brigade, at least one J-10B and a Mi-171 (??).
> 
> View attachment 454026
> View attachment 454027
> View attachment 454028
> View attachment 454029
> View attachment 454030
> 
> 
> As promised, the new book on the Chinese Naval Aviation due out in April was only the beginning ...
> 
> I’m proud to announce the release date for the long awaited and fully revised edition of the original book “Modern Chinese Warplanes” released in 2012.
> 
> Due out in late 2018… so stay tuned since there’s more to come
> 
> A.R./Deino
> 
> https://www.casematepublishers.com/distributed-publishers/harpia-publishing/modern-chinese-warplanes-69383.html#.WoVZLrxl_cs
> 
> View attachment 454035



@Deino, just suggestion for your book. You should add the year on it, because you know yourself that China military hardware is the same as gadget. They have new toys every year. So even if your report is legit in this year, it will be outdated in 2019.

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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> @Deino, just suggestion for your book. You should add the year on it, because you know yourself that China military hardware is the same as gadget. They have new toys every year. So even if your report is legit in this year, it will be outdated in 2019.



Thanks for that suggestion and I had a similar idea, but my publisher refused it.

Deino

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## Shahzaz ud din

*China will soon have air power rivalling the West’s*
THERE is no question which country gets the starring role in “The Military Balance”, the latest annual review of the world’s armed forces by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), a London-based think-tank. Amid renewed jostling between the world’s great powers, it is the pace of military modernisation in China that stands out.








China’s president, Xi Jinping, wants to be able to challenge America’s military might in the western Pacific. He is making big progress. China’s once bloated armed forces are becoming leaner and a lot more capable. They are also benefiting from a defence budget that is growing at a steady 6-7% a year, in line with GDP. The IISS declares that China has become an innovator in military technology and is “not merely ‘catching up’ with the West”

.For some of the most advanced science, Mr Xi is tapping the private sector. Non-state firms are helping the armed forces to develop quantum technologies that will boost their ability to make use of artificial intelligence and big data, as well as to develop unhackable communications networks. A potential advantage that China has over the West is that its tech firms have little choice about working on military projects. The Pentagon has to woo sceptical Silicon Valley companies. Firms in China do what the government tells them to do.

Such exotic technologies will take time to be deployed on the battlefield. But China’s focus on them may cause the West’s already eroding military edge to disappear entirely. “The Military Balance” offers a striking example of the progress China has made: in two years’ time, if not before, America is likely to lose its monopoly of radar-beating stealth combat aircraft with the introduction into service of China’s Chengdu J-20. This has a much longer range than America’s new F-35 fighter and will be a serious threat to American warships in the Pacific.

At least as worrying for American commanders in the region is the dramatic upgrading of China’s inventory of air-to-air missiles (AAMs). The short-range PL-10, which was introduced in 2015, is regarded by military analysts as comparable in performance to Western equivalents, such as the _Sidewinder_ II. This year, the PL-15, a radar-guided “beyond visual range” missile (BVRAAM), should enter service. Carried by a J-20, the PL-15 can destroy an aircraft 50km away that is trying to evade it. “The Military Balance” believes that a version of the missile is in the works that will have a cruise speed of Mach 3. It is similar in design to the European _Meteor_, the best BVRAAM in the West’s inventory, which is only just entering service.

Another system, yet to be named, would provide China with an ability to knock out targets as far away as 400km, a far greater range than any other air-to-air weapon in service. It would threaten aircraft that currently operate safely from a considerable distance, such as tankers and planes used for airborne surveillance and control. China’s message to its adversaries with these new missiles is clear. As “The Military Balance” puts it, air superiority “will have to be won—and likely only temporarily—with the commitment of a level of ‘blood and treasure’ not required since the end of the cold war.”

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## MultaniGuy

Hopefully. I wish the best for China.

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## khansaheeb

They need to spiral down not up. The weapons are becoming too extreme and the average life expectancy of a frontline combatant is tending to minutes.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009



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## Taimur Khurram

khansaheeb said:


> They need to spiral down not up. The weapons are becoming too extreme and the average life expectancy of a frontline combatant is tending to minutes.



Asalamu Alaikum

Killing your enemies ASAP is vital to achieving your objectives in war. Therefore, everyone tries to minimise the life expectancy of their enemies as much as possible. Likewise, the enemy attempts to do the same.

There is no way to slow this down, unless you convince military's to start becoming less efficient at warfare, which is a hard case to sell.

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## 52051

The west has alot of underweighted pretenders, soon pass? China has leave most of the NATO countries's airforce in the dust since long times ago.

Actually the only west country China is about to surpass is the US, I find its very amusing when rest pretenders love to group themselves with US, almost like a few of the funny guy you meet who love to brag his best butt buddy's remote uncle is rich or famous whatever.

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## khansaheeb

dsr478 said:


> Asalamu Alaikum
> 
> Killing your enemies ASAP is vital to achieving your objectives in war. Therefore, everyone tries to minimise the life expectancy of their enemies as much as possible. Likewise, the enemy attempts to do the same.
> 
> There is no way to slow this down, unless you convince military's to start becoming less efficient at warfare, which is a hard case to sell.


WalaiKum Salam, there is a difference between madness and efficiency. A mad person knows no extremes, efficient person balances things rationally. When the politicians and the armies become extreme it leads to paranoia of relentless struggle to overkill. The fear within the politicians is the cause of this paranoia, as they tend to be physically weak.

Fear is causing USA to implode as everyone wants to bear arms ; India and Pakistan are facing similar issues. This is leading to organised criminal gangs allover as people realise that individually their power is limited so they form associations with like minded people. Then they want to grow their gangs into territories and into supersized gangs. Resulting in the type massacres we are seeing in the US, where an arm implements a mad action. Religion has failed in all these countries as the religious priests have misused and abused their authority for personal ingratiation. US is becoming polarised more and more daily. Small things escalate quickly into shootings. A large portion of their population is militarily trained and find it easy to use what they know. Guns are easily accessible , bullets are cheap and paper targets change into human targets. Certain political powerful groups are shielded from the mayhems they create of drugs , guns and joblessness on the streets.


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## 帅的一匹

Deino said:


> Thanks for that suggestion and I had a similar idea, but my publisher refused it.
> 
> Deino


They want the book selling in a long period of time. Make bang for the Bucks they pay you.

It's valuable at least within three years span.

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## SingaporeGuy

American military is keeping itself alive on debt though.

If we factor in their yearly deficit into the military budget, american military will only have a budget as much as india's

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## Ajaxpaul

52051 said:


> The west has alot of underweighted pretenders, soon pass? China has leave most of the NATO countries's airforce in the dust since long times ago.
> 
> Actually the only west country China is about to surpass is the US, I find its very amusing when rest pretenders love to group themselves with US, almost like a few of the funny guy you meet who love to brag his best butt buddy's remote uncle is rich or famous whatever.



Which chinese fighters are better than typhoons and Rafale ?

I am curious btw


----------



## PAKISTANFOREVER

Janbaz Rao said:


> *China will soon have air power rivalling the West’s*
> THERE is no question which country gets the starring role in “The Military Balance”, the latest annual review of the world’s armed forces by the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS), a London-based think-tank. Amid renewed jostling between the world’s great powers, it is the pace of military modernisation in China that stands out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> China’s president, Xi Jinping, wants to be able to challenge America’s military might in the western Pacific. He is making big progress. China’s once bloated armed forces are becoming leaner and a lot more capable. They are also benefiting from a defence budget that is growing at a steady 6-7% a year, in line with GDP. The IISS declares that China has become an innovator in military technology and is “not merely ‘catching up’ with the West”
> 
> .For some of the most advanced science, Mr Xi is tapping the private sector. Non-state firms are helping the armed forces to develop quantum technologies that will boost their ability to make use of artificial intelligence and big data, as well as to develop unhackable communications networks. A potential advantage that China has over the West is that its tech firms have little choice about working on military projects. The Pentagon has to woo sceptical Silicon Valley companies. Firms in China do what the government tells them to do.
> 
> Such exotic technologies will take time to be deployed on the battlefield. But China’s focus on them may cause the West’s already eroding military edge to disappear entirely. “The Military Balance” offers a striking example of the progress China has made: in two years’ time, if not before, America is likely to lose its monopoly of radar-beating stealth combat aircraft with the introduction into service of China’s Chengdu J-20. This has a much longer range than America’s new F-35 fighter and will be a serious threat to American warships in the Pacific.
> 
> At least as worrying for American commanders in the region is the dramatic upgrading of China’s inventory of air-to-air missiles (AAMs). The short-range PL-10, which was introduced in 2015, is regarded by military analysts as comparable in performance to Western equivalents, such as the _Sidewinder_ II. This year, the PL-15, a radar-guided “beyond visual range” missile (BVRAAM), should enter service. Carried by a J-20, the PL-15 can destroy an aircraft 50km away that is trying to evade it. “The Military Balance” believes that a version of the missile is in the works that will have a cruise speed of Mach 3. It is similar in design to the European _Meteor_, the best BVRAAM in the West’s inventory, which is only just entering service.
> 
> Another system, yet to be named, would provide China with an ability to knock out targets as far away as 400km, a far greater range than any other air-to-air weapon in service. It would threaten aircraft that currently operate safely from a considerable distance, such as tankers and planes used for airborne surveillance and control. China’s message to its adversaries with these new missiles is clear. As “The Military Balance” puts it, air superiority “will have to be won—and likely only temporarily—with the commitment of a level of ‘blood and treasure’ not required since the end of the cold war.”






Of course they will. It's not a matter of if but when!


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## 52051

Ajaxpaul said:


> Which chinese fighters are better than typhoons and Rafale ?
> 
> I am curious btw



J-10C/16/20 are definitely better.

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## Ajaxpaul

52051 said:


> J-10C/16/20 are definitely better.



Ok god be with you.


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## UKBengali

52051 said:


> J-10C/16/20 are definitely better.




J-20 is.

J-10C is comparable.

J-16 is worse.


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## Akasa

UKBengali said:


> J-20 is.
> 
> J-10C is comparable.
> 
> J-16 is worse.



J-16 and Eurofighter or Rafale are in two different classes, the former being a heavyweight strike fighter and the latter two being medium-weight multirole aircraft.

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## 52051

UKBengali said:


> J-20 is.
> 
> J-10C is comparable.
> 
> J-16 is worse.



To the best my knowledge, none of the euro caranrds get a AESA or ramjet missiles update yet, let along 300-400KM ramjet AA missiles which J-16 can carry.

J-16 can carry these and in the PLA exerise, AESA show huge advantage over PESA thanks to the fact it is far far more robust against electronic countermeasures.

And the tech standard of AESA in China:

According to the chief designer, the AESA radar China provide to PAF as a FC-1 update option has longer detecting range than F-35's APG-81.

And J-16 has far more space and power supply than FC-1 to accomodate much larger AESA radar.

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## 帅的一匹

52051 said:


> To the best my knowledge, none of the euro caranrds get a AESA or ramjet missiles update yet, let along 300-400KM ramjet AA missiles which J-16 can carry.
> 
> J-16 can carry these and in the PLA exerise, AESA show huge advantage over PESA thanks to the fact it is far far more robust against electronic countermeasures.
> 
> And the tech standard of AESA in China:
> 
> According to the chief designer, the AESA radar China provide to PAF as a FC-1 update option has longer detecting range than F-35's APG-81.
> 
> And J-16 has far more space and power supply than FC-1 to accomodate much larger AESA radar.


J16 is more powerful than J10c.

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## UKBengali

52051 said:


> To the best my knowledge, none of the euro caranrds get a AESA or ramjet missiles update yet, let along 300-400KM ramjet AA missiles which J-16 can carry.
> 
> J-16 can carry these and in the PLA exerise, AESA show huge advantage over PESA thanks to the fact it is far far more robust against electronic countermeasures.
> 
> And the tech standard of AESA in China:
> 
> According to the chief designer, the AESA radar China provide to PAF as a FC-1 update option has longer detecting range than F-35's APG-81.
> 
> And J-16 has far more space and power supply than FC-1 to accomodate much larger AESA radar.



I think Rafale has AESA and Meteor ramjet BVRAAM already.
Eurocanards can super cruise and are more agile than J-16. They would win in air combat against J-16.
I agree that Chinese AESA radars are comparable to West.


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## BHarwana

Image of 10-b with WS-10 engine at Lhasa Gonggar Airport. @Deino what do you think is this info correct?

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## Deino

BHarwana said:


> Image of 10-b with WS-10 engine at Lhasa Gonggar Airport. @Deino what do you think is this info correct?




IMO a regular AL-31FN-equipped J-10B ... my point is, there are only a handful known to be equipped with the WS-10 and those are assigned to an FTTC-unit, not a regular combat unit assigned to the WRC as described in the official source OedoSoldier used:

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-02/16/content_7946590.htm

Also nothing on that image hints anything to be a WS-10 IMO:

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## BHarwana

Deino said:


> IMO a regular AL-31FN-equipped J-10B ... my point is, there are only a handful known to be equipped with the WS-10 and those are assigned to an FTTC-unit, not a regular combat unit assigned to the WRC as described in the official source OedoSoldier used:
> 
> http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-02/16/content_7946590.htm
> 
> Also nothing on that image hints anything to be a WS-10 IMO:
> 
> View attachment 454623



Yes OedoSoldier was taking it in that direction but I also thought it was a regular J-10B

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## Deino

BHarwana said:


> Yes OedoSoldier was taking it in that direction but I also thought it was a regular J-10B



To admit I don't know why he thinks so and so far he did not answer my question.

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## BHarwana

Deino said:


> To admit I don't know why he thinks so and so far he did not answer my question.



This is the video of J-10 B with WS-10 engine. After 1:11 you can see the Jet exhaust to compare any differences.






Plus at 1:11 there is J-20 in the back ground. What is the Yellow thing between the J-20 tail.


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## clarkgap

BHarwana said:


> Image of 10-b with WS-10 engine at Lhasa Gonggar Airport. @Deino what do you think is this info correct?



AL-31. Odeosoldier said he made a mistake.

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## BHarwana

J-10SY

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## BHarwana



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## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968007160193081344

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## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/968780313500397568

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## BHarwana

Check the load out on wings.

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## clarkgap

BHarwana said:


> Check the load out on wings.



Four PL-8/PL-8B
A pair of old ECM pods (New JH-7A use KG600 ECM pods to replace them)
Three fuel tanks

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## BHarwana

clarkgap said:


> Four PL-8/PL-8B
> A pair of old ECM pods (New JH-7A use KG600 ECM pods to replace them)
> Three fuel tanks



The Pod on the right wing is different from the Pod on the left?


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## clarkgap

BHarwana said:


> The Pod on the right wing is different from the Pod on the left?








One series ECM pods. Old design, single function. New pods integrate functions of four old type into one.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/972750996039524352

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## Avicenna

BHarwana said:


> Image of 10-b with WS-10 engine at Lhasa Gonggar Airport. @Deino what do you think is this info correct?



This picture is so gorgeous.

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## jaybird

BHarwana said:


> This is the video of J-10 B with WS-10 engine. After 1:11 you can see the Jet exhaust to compare any differences.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Plus at 1:11 there is J-20 in the back ground. What is the Yellow thing between the J-20 tail.



That's where the Speed Reduction Parachute is installed.

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## BHarwana

jaybird said:


> That's where the Speed Reduction Parachute is installed.
> View attachment 458877
> View attachment 458878
> View attachment 458879



That's a nice design installing the chute in there and USA never thought of it, good going these small thinking make big things happen.

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## clarkgap

BHarwana said:


> That's a nice design installing the chute in there and USA never thought of it, good going these small thinking make big things happen.



They do not use that.


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## gambit

BHarwana said:


> That's a nice design installing the chute in there and USA never thought of it, good going these small thinking make big things happen.


Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you telling the world that the US never thought of using the drag chute to slow down a landing aircraft? This is going to be interesting.

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## Avicenna

gambit said:


> Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you telling the world that the US never thought of using the drag chute to slow down a landing aircraft? This is going to be interesting.



I nearly spit out my soda when I read this.


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## BHarwana

gambit said:


> Maybe I misunderstand you, but are you telling the world that the US never thought of using the drag chute to slow down a landing aircraft? This is going to be interesting.


lol I am telling USA never use it in F-35 in a concealed way.


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## gambit

BHarwana said:


> lol I am telling USA never use it in F-35 in a concealed way.


Please stay out of subjects that you have not bothered to do basic research...

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/norways-f-35-drag-chute-tested-on-icy-runways-443659/


> US Air Force test pilots are testing that the drag chute, a modification spearheaded by the Royal Norwegian Air Force, slows the aircraft to a stop on icy runways near the Arctic circle, Lockheed says.

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## BHarwana

J-16 Flight traning

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## Avicenna

BHarwana said:


> J-16 Flight traning



Gorgeous low visibility color scheme.

Looks like the Chinese mean business.

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## Beast

Is it possible J-16 benefit from the extreme weight saving technic just like J-20? Therefore result in high weight to thrust ratio even with just 8:1 thrust engine power.

Same J-10 C.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> Is it possible J-16 benefit from the extreme weight saving technic just like J-20? Therefore result in high weight to thrust ratio even with just 8:1 thrust engine power.
> 
> Same J-10 C.


Cost will increase sharply if so.


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## Beast

wanglaokan said:


> Cost will increase sharply if so.


J-16 supposed to be a high end multi role complement J-20. Cost is not so much of a concern.

They are rumour that J-16 is more expensive than J-20.

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## 帅的一匹

Beast said:


> J-16 supposed to be a high end multi role complement J-20. Cost is not so much of a concern.
> 
> They are rumour that J-16 is more expensive than J-20.


Impossible


----------



## MiG-35-BD

there has been such rumors, based on highly inefficient and ridiculous procurement policies of SAC. And conversely, the highly efficient running of the J-20 program. This isn't the first time I've heard of this. Sometime back I was reading specifically about the use of subcontractors, on how the J-20 used clear competition, while SAC used obscure traditional partnerships.


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## ozranger

MiG-35-BD said:


> there has been such rumors, based on highly inefficient and ridiculous procurement policies of SAC. And conversely, the highly efficient running of the J-20 program. This isn't the first time I've heard of this. Sometime back I was reading specifically about the use of subcontractors, on how the J-20 used clear competition, while SAC used obscure traditional partnerships.



From Chinese online community, there is a more sensible story that CAC, mainly Institute 611, used subcontractors from space, electronic, ordnance and even ship building industry, whereas SAC and Institute 601 has been always strictly followed orders from their AVIC bosses and subcontracted with other AVIC companies. For sometime in the J-20 program, the PLAAF had to intervene to repel distraction from the AVIC management.

This issue plus some others must have been escalated to the top leadership of the Communist Party. So the real estate, engine and large passenger aircraft businesses were all stripped away from AVIC and former AVIC head Lin Zuoming was forced retired.


----------



## MiG-35-BD

Bottom line is 601 has yet to prove itself, and is an inefficient white elephant of an organization. 611 makes them look bad. 

To have an efficient sub contractor base, one has to have open bidding competition, not strict cabalistic dealings. That is what I said if you re-read what I wrote.


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## 帅的一匹

ozranger said:


> From Chinese online community, there is a more sensible story that CAC, mainly Institute 611, used subcontractors from space, electronic, ordnance and even ship building industry, whereas SAC and Institute 601 has been always strictly followed orders from their AVIC bosses and subcontracted with other AVIC companies. For sometime in the J-20 program, the PLAAF had to intervene to repel distraction from the AVIC management.
> 
> This issue plus some others must have been escalated to the top leadership of the Communist Party. So the real estate, engine and large passenger aircraft businesses were all stripped away from AVIC and former AVIC head Lin Zuoming was forced retired.


Let AVIC go to hell. We need China types of Lockheed Martin and Boeing.

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## Zarvan

*A Chinese J-10 fighter squadron in Tibet
*
_"Once the engine problem is solved, Chinese planes will be able to easily take off and land in high-altitude areas, making India's air force less effective," Hong Kong-based military analyst Leung said
_
China's third generation fighter jets seem to have overcome their engine problems plaguing them while flying over high-altitude regions in Tibet bordering India, according to a media report today.

The People's Liberation Army (PLA) has posted video footage of drills by Chengdu J-10 and Shenyang J-11 fighter jets flying low over snow-capped mountains on Monday, suggesting that the military has overcome engine problems afflicting the aircraft at high altitude areas, the Hong Kong-based South China Morning Post (SCMP) reported.

The jets are part of China's fleet of third-generation lightweight multi-role fighter aircraft, powered by Russian AL-31F engines. The J-11 is also part of fleet of China's third-generation fighter aircraft.

According to military observers, the engines had previously lost power above 3,000 metres, leading to a string of accidents, the report said, a rare revelation of the problems faced by the Chinese fighter aircraft in the high-altitude region.

In September 2015, a J-10 from the former Shenyang Military Region crashed during a night patrol when the plane climbed above 3,350 metres, state-run China Central Television reported.

The footage also showed a Shaanxi Y-9 transport aircraft taking off and landing at a high-altitude airport. The Y-9 can carry 106 passengers or 132 troops at one time, the Post report said.

A Xian JH-7 fighter-bomber is also seen flying over the snow-covered terrain, filling out the combat line-up in the PLA Air Forces' Western Theatre Command, which ranges from Chongqing to Tibet and Xinjiang.

"In various exercises, we not only target imaginary rivals, but focus more on acquiring useful and effective combat skills," Zhan Houshun, the western theatres air force commander, said.
Military analysts said the apparent smooth flights by the warplanes in the latest drills suggested the air force had overcome the engines high-altitude problems, bolstering the PLA's defences against India.

Beijing-based military commentator Song Zhongping said the lack of air pressure at high altitudes made flying difficult, a situation complicated by variations in airflow in mountainous terrain.

"The video showed that the engines in Chinese warplanes have been improved in terms of stability over complex geography. It also signalled that China has set up a highly specialised air wing in the country's west," Song was quoted as saying by the Post.

Hong Kong-based military analyst Leung Kwok-leung said the improvements would strengthen China's air defence against India.

"Once the engine problem is solved, Chinese planes will be able to easily take off and land in high-altitude areas, making India's air force less effective," Leung said.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...gine-problems-report/articleshow/63321125.cms

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## war&peace

That's a good news.


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## lcloo

Who is the reporter writing this rubbish? Aircraft may have problems taking off from a high altitude runway due to thin air, but certaintly not while flying above 3,000 metres!!!

And the problem of taking off while carrying full load has been solved by a simple solution - simply just extend the length of the runway.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Who is the reporter writing this rubbish? Aircraft may have problems taking off from a high altitude runway due to thin air, but certaintly not while flying above 3,000 metres!!!
> 
> And the problem of taking off while carrying full load has been solved by a simple solution - simply just extend the length of the runway.




To admit ... again a pure plain stupid BS-report. It starts with an old image showing several J-10As clearly NOT in Tibet and continues with a lot more worthless crap.

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## randomradio

I doubt there's any truth to that. We operate the same engines normally.

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## JSCh

*Advances in military technology give China edge in Asia-Pacific*
By Yang Sheng Source:Global Times Published: 2018/4/3 17:38:39



The pictured is early-warning radar in square formation during a military parade at Zhurihe training base in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, July 30, 2017, to mark the 90th founding anniversary of the People's Liberation Army. Photo: IC

China has made significant achievements in radar and strategic bomber technology, according to scientists working in the fields, adding that its military radars can now detect all kinds of stealth fighter jets and bombers deployed in the Asia-Pacific region.

Hu Mingchun, director of the No.14 research institute under the China Electronic Technology Group Corporation (CETC), and also a deputy of the National People's Congress, told the media, "China's radar technology is comprehensively approaching world-class level or is as advanced as foreign technology in general. Now we are at the stage of moving up to the leading role."

"In some areas, China already uses the most advanced radar technology in the world, such as ship-based multi-function phased array radar and airborne early-warning radar," Chinese news portal thepaper.cn quoted Hu as saying on March 29.

*Growing challenges*

In recent years, the US and its allies have deployed multiple stealth aircraft around China in the Asia-Pacific region.

In October 2017, 12 F-35A fighter jets arrived in Japan, marking the US Air Force's first-ever F-35 deployment to the Asia-Pacific region, the Defense News reported.

More F-35 will be deployed in the coming years, Jane's 360 reported.

"Since the US developed the F-117 in 1981, the increasing development and deployment of the stealth aircraft have brought serious challenges to other countries' homeland air defense," Hu said.

"Targeting the new generation of stealth aircraft's high-altitude, high-speed and advanced stealth capability, China's new generation of anti-stealth radar has been developed, and through practice, its capability in real combat has been proven. The technological competition between stealth and anti-stealth technologies will not stop in the long term," Hu noted.

In November 2016, the CETC's anti-stealth radar YLC-8B, developed by the No.14 research institute, was displayed at the Airshow China 2016 in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province.

"China's anti-stealth radars can detect all kinds of stealth aircraft that the US has deployed in the Asia-Pacific region, including the F-22, F-35 and B-2, which means that when the US wants to use these aircraft to deter China, it has to take into consideration China's radar systems, because they will be detected by Chinese radars and shot down in real combat," Song Zhongping, a military expert and a commentator on Phoenix TV, told the Global Times.

*Early warnings*

In addition to anti-stealth radar, China also possesses long-range early warning phased array radar, making it the third country after the US and Russia with the capability to conduct independent development of this kind of radar, Hu said. "This has laid a solid foundation for China's anti-missile early warning system."

This kind of radar targets strategic threats such as incoming ballistic missiles, providing enough time for the system to intercept the missile, Song said.

China has also made great strides in strategic bombers. The H-6k is not a newly developed bomber, but its increasing presence in the Asia-Pacific region shows that China is becoming more confident in using its strategic deterrence, said a scholar from a Beijing-based PLA military academy who requested anonymity.

"A nuclear power should have multiple strategic deterrence measures including land-based ballistic missiles, nuclear submarines and strategic bombers. Although currently the H-6k is not at the same level as the US and Russia's most advanced stealth strategic bombers, it's enough for China to deter secessionists in Taiwan since it can carry bombs and cruise missiles to strike military targets on the island from all directions," he noted. 

According to the Xinhua News Agency, He Shengqiang, head of the team responsible for the H-6k's development under the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, said, "H-6k's capabilities on information countermeasures and awareness have already reached the level of third and fourth generation bombers.

"The development of the future bombers" is our duty in the new era, and "we need to become the standard maker of this technology, and play the leading role in the future bomber's combat modality," He said.

China's new generation H-20, believed to be a stealth strategic bomber similar to the B-2, is under development.

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## Bussard Ramjet

JSCh said:


> *Advances in military technology give China edge in Asia-Pacific*
> By Yang Sheng Source:Global Times Published: 2018/4/3 17:38:39
> 
> 
> 
> The pictured is early-warning radar in square formation during a military parade at Zhurihe training base in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, July 30, 2017, to mark the 90th founding anniversary of the People's Liberation Army. Photo: IC
> 
> China has made significant achievements in radar and strategic bomber technology, according to scientists working in the fields, adding that its military radars can now detect all kinds of stealth fighter jets and bombers deployed in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> Hu Mingchun, director of the No.14 research institute under the China Electronic Technology Group Corporation (CETC), and also a deputy of the National People's Congress, told the media, "China's radar technology is comprehensively approaching world-class level or is as advanced as foreign technology in general. Now we are at the stage of moving up to the leading role."
> 
> "In some areas, China already uses the most advanced radar technology in the world, such as ship-based multi-function phased array radar and airborne early-warning radar," Chinese news portal thepaper.cn quoted Hu as saying on March 29.
> 
> *Growing challenges*
> 
> In recent years, the US and its allies have deployed multiple stealth aircraft around China in the Asia-Pacific region.
> 
> In October 2017, 12 F-35A fighter jets arrived in Japan, marking the US Air Force's first-ever F-35 deployment to the Asia-Pacific region, the Defense News reported.
> 
> More F-35 will be deployed in the coming years, Jane's 360 reported.
> 
> "Since the US developed the F-117 in 1981, the increasing development and deployment of the stealth aircraft have brought serious challenges to other countries' homeland air defense," Hu said.
> 
> "Targeting the new generation of stealth aircraft's high-altitude, high-speed and advanced stealth capability, China's new generation of anti-stealth radar has been developed, and through practice, its capability in real combat has been proven. The technological competition between stealth and anti-stealth technologies will not stop in the long term," Hu noted.
> 
> In November 2016, the CETC's anti-stealth radar YLC-8B, developed by the No.14 research institute, was displayed at the Airshow China 2016 in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province.
> 
> "China's anti-stealth radars can detect all kinds of stealth aircraft that the US has deployed in the Asia-Pacific region, including the F-22, F-35 and B-2, which means that when the US wants to use these aircraft to deter China, it has to take into consideration China's radar systems, because they will be detected by Chinese radars and shot down in real combat," Song Zhongping, a military expert and a commentator on Phoenix TV, told the Global Times.
> 
> *Early warnings*
> 
> In addition to anti-stealth radar, China also possesses long-range early warning phased array radar, making it the third country after the US and Russia with the capability to conduct independent development of this kind of radar, Hu said. "This has laid a solid foundation for China's anti-missile early warning system."
> 
> This kind of radar targets strategic threats such as incoming ballistic missiles, providing enough time for the system to intercept the missile, Song said.
> 
> China has also made great strides in strategic bombers. The H-6k is not a newly developed bomber, but its increasing presence in the Asia-Pacific region shows that China is becoming more confident in using its strategic deterrence, said a scholar from a Beijing-based PLA military academy who requested anonymity.
> 
> "A nuclear power should have multiple strategic deterrence measures including land-based ballistic missiles, nuclear submarines and strategic bombers. Although currently the H-6k is not at the same level as the US and Russia's most advanced stealth strategic bombers, it's enough for China to deter secessionists in Taiwan since it can carry bombs and cruise missiles to strike military targets on the island from all directions," he noted.
> 
> According to the Xinhua News Agency, He Shengqiang, head of the team responsible for the H-6k's development under the Aviation Industry Corporation of China, said, "H-6k's capabilities on information countermeasures and awareness have already reached the level of third and fourth generation bombers.
> 
> "The development of the future bombers" is our duty in the new era, and "we need to become the standard maker of this technology, and play the leading role in the future bomber's combat modality," He said.
> 
> China's new generation H-20, believed to be a stealth strategic bomber similar to the B-2, is under development.




Can the radar track the stealth aircrafts in their stealthy flying mode in real time?


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## 帅的一匹

Bussard Ramjet said:


> Can the radar track the stealth aircrafts in their stealthy flying mode in real time?


It's not video game, it's real.


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## LKJ86



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## ozranger

Starting jet engines in high altitude could be problematic because the starter degrades in power greatly in high altitude. Reportedly PLAAF's engineers fixed the engine starting problem on imported Su-27 in trial deployment to Tibet and passed on the experience to SAC and CAC for improving engine starting facility with AL-31F/FN mounted on J-11 and J-10. This problem is very unique and only applies to aircraft, especially military aircraft, operated in Tibet.

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> Who is the reporter writing this rubbish? Aircraft may have problems taking off from a high altitude runway due to thin air, but certaintly not while flying above 3,000 metres!!!
> 
> And the problem of taking off while carrying full load has been solved by a simple solution - simply just extend the length of the runway.


Probably some ignorant SCMP reporter like Minnie Chan again. She was the same one who said that China couldn't manufacture single crystal blades, the WS-15 exploded on the testing rig, and that the J-15 couldn't take off from steam cats because of their "heaviness". And of course, let's not forget about the totally 100% credible SCMP "unnamed sources". Given their past experience, I'm not surprised of this bull



ozranger said:


> Starting jet engines in high altitude could be problematic because the starter degrades in power greatly in high altitude. Reportedly PLAAF's engineers fixed the engine starting problem on imported Su-27 in trial deployment to Tibet and passed on the experience to SAC and CAC for improving engine starting facility with AL-31F/FN mounted on J-11 and J-10. This problem is very unique and only applies to aircraft, especially military aircraft, operated in Tibet.


But 3000 meters???

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## ozranger

Figaro said:


> But 3000 meters???



It has nothing to do with that stupid report. What I tried to say is that there is a problem when starting a jet engine like AL-31F/FN in high altitude. As reported the problem is not on the engine itself but on the starter. In early years PLAAF engineers resolved the problem on imported Su-27 by splitting the start process into stages. This problem is now completely gone on all indigenously manufactured J-11, J-10 and other aircraft. So I guess there is an experience transfer from PLAAF and physical improvement on the design of the starters or start procedures. 

Obviously now it is pretty easy to have major jet planes including J-11, J-10, JH-7 and large jet propelled UAVs deployed to Tibet.

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## lcloo

The problems of taking off in high altitudes has been resolved. Every new aircraft proto-types have to pass high altitude take off test before PLAAF accepts them (Z-20, Y-20, J-20, Z-18 etc). To understand the problem, we have to look at two things.

(1) the thin air in high altitude means less air pressure difference is asserted on the aircraft's wings during take-off, thus render lower lift. To generate sufficient lift to take off with full load, greater speed is required. The solution is building longer runway upto 5 km in length.

(2) thin air also means less oxygen per cubic metre, thus engine combustion is rendered less efficiency. The solution is to make sure adequate oxygen (or some other highly combustible gas) is suck into the combustion chamber of the engine. How PLAAF did that ? I don't know, may be they install oxygen injection noozzles inside the engine?

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## yusheng



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## LKJ86

April, 2018

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## LKJ86

PLAAF “金飞镖-2018”/Golden dart-2018 starts on 2018.4.18

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

*PLA Air Force pilots chase “Golden Dart”*
*



*
A J-10A fighter jet fires at targets in an annual air battle tactics competitive assessment launched by the PLA Air Force in northeast China on April 18, 2018. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Yang Pan)

CHANGCHUN, April 19 (ChinaMil) -- The PLA Air Force kicked off Wednesday its annual competitive assessment codenamed Golden Dart---2018 in northeast China. Over 200 fighter jet pilots from dozens of air force combat units will compete for the "Golden Dart" award, the top prize for most skillful pilots in the fierce air defense penetration and assault operations.

According to the assessment regulation, the participating pilot will fly his fighter jet to conduct penetration (breaking through enemy air defense systems) first, and then launch assault (attacking enemy land/sea targets), a responsible officer with the training bureau of the PLA Air Force told PLA Daily.

In order to create a real combat environment, the competitions will be staged both at daytime and night and live ammunitions will be used in the assault operations. The assessment aims to test the pilots' defense penetrating and assaulting tactics when flying at low altitudes, and the abilities to quickly locate targets in complex environments and conduct continuous attack with different weapons, he added .

The Golden Dart competitive assessment is one of the four real combat training exercises of the PLA Air Force. The other three are the Red Sword systematic confrontation training exercise, the Golden Helmet air battle competition for fighter pilots and the Blue Shield exercise for land-to-air missile combat units .

In recent years, The venues of the Golden Dart competitive assessment have expanded from the desert and the Gobi areas to canyons, seas, and grasslands amid with increasingly difficult battlefield situations for competitors.

source:http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-04/19/content_8009028.htm

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## samsara

*The Chinese Air Force conducts systematic patrols encircling the Taiwan Island*
[beginning of 18 April 2018]

http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1098910.shtml


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/987148848488468480

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## Akasa

Incredible helmet-cam video of Q-5 flight operations (HD): https://www.skypixel.com/videos/2567663e-a05c-44c9-a64c-452a140aab8a

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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

PLAAF H-6 bomber recent attack effect

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## LKJ86

Test Pilots of PLAAF:

J-8





JH-7





FC-1





Y-20





J-20

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## LKJ86

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/7k_P_0jrxJb8komFVUgF1g

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## samsara

*China’s Air Force Exercise Hones Pilots’ Real Combat Capability at "Golden Dart 2018"*

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## Beast

LKJ86 said:


> Test Pilots of PLAAF:
> 
> J-8
> View attachment 468773
> 
> 
> JH-7
> View attachment 468775
> 
> 
> FC-1
> View attachment 468776
> 
> 
> Y-20
> View attachment 468777
> 
> 
> J-20
> View attachment 468778


Where is lei Qiang of J-10?


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## LKJ86

2018.4.26

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## LKJ86

Golden dart-2018

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## LKJ86

JH-7A

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## LKJ86

2018.4.26

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> 2018.4.26



Seems as if the former 2nd Division, 4th AR's J-8H have been replaced by the former 6th AR's Su-27SK and J-11A.


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## LKJ86

Lhasa Kongga International Airport

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## Deino

The KJ-500 with a black serial number?? ... so it is a naval bird??


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## LKJ86



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## Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA

*Chinese air force releases promotional video recapping island patrols*
Source: Xinhua| 2018-04-28 21:44:59|Editor: ZX



Photo shows a commemorative envelope themed on "Chinese air force conducts island patrols around Taiwan". The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force released a promotional video and commemorative envelopes, recapping its recent flights over China's island of Taiwan, on April 28, 2018. (Xinhua)




FUZHOU, April 28 (Xinhua) -- The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force on Saturday released a promotional video and commemorative envelopes, recapping its recent flights over China's island of Taiwan.




The video was released in multiple languages including English, Japanese and Chinese dialects such as Minnan (southern Fujian) and Cantonese. The background music features several widely known Chinese patriotic songs.




The video is to let Chinese people of all ethnic groups, especially compatriots in Taiwan and overseas Chinese, understand that not a single inch of China will ever be separated from the motherland, according to the air force.




The photo and footage of the flights used in the video and on the envelopes are aerial shots taken by the PLA pilots during their cruising missions.




The inscription on the envelopes reads, "Taiwan, the Treasure Island, is harbored by our motherland. The motherland will always be in our heart. It is the sacred duty of any PLA pilot to safeguard the territory of our motherland."




"Every time we flew the H-6K bomber over the island, my comrades and I could clearly see the wonderful landscape of our motherland, before recording the scenes with cameras," said pilot Wu Yuepeng. "They're not only the witness to our efforts for a stronger country and a stronger military, but also witness to us carrying out missions in the new era."

"The island patrols of the PLA pilots were also to measure the landscape of China with flying trails," said Shen Jinke, spokesperson of the PLA air force.

He noted that the PLA air force had the resolve, faith, and capability to safeguard China's national sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Since April 18, the air force has conducted a series of island patrols, in order to exercise and enhance its capabilities to safeguard national sovereignty and territorial integrity.

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## samsara

Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA said:


> *Chinese air force releases promotional video recapping island patrols*
> Source: Xinhua| 2018-04-28 21:44:59|Editor: ZX
> 
> 
> 
> Photo shows a commemorative envelope themed on "Chinese air force conducts island patrols around Taiwan". The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force released a promotional video and commemorative envelopes, recapping its recent flights over China's island of Taiwan, on April 28, 2018. (Xinhua)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> FUZHOU, April 28 (Xinhua) -- The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force on Saturday released a promotional video and commemorative envelopes, recapping its recent flights over China's island of Taiwan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video was released in multiple languages including English, Japanese and Chinese dialects such as Minnan (southern Fujian) and Cantonese. The background music features several widely known Chinese patriotic songs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The video is to let Chinese people of all ethnic groups, especially compatriots in Taiwan and overseas Chinese, understand that not a single inch of China will ever be separated from the motherland, according to the air force.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The photo and footage of the flights used in the video and on the envelopes are aerial shots taken by the PLA pilots during their cruising missions.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The inscription on the envelopes reads, "Taiwan, the Treasure Island, is harbored by our motherland. The motherland will always be in our heart. It is the sacred duty of any PLA pilot to safeguard the territory of our motherland."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Every time we flew the H-6K bomber over the island, my comrades and I could clearly see the wonderful landscape of our motherland, before recording the scenes with cameras," said pilot Wu Yuepeng. "They're not only the witness to our efforts for a stronger country and a stronger military, but also witness to us carrying out missions in the new era."
> 
> "The island patrols of the PLA pilots were also to measure the landscape of China with flying trails," said Shen Jinke, spokesperson of the PLA air force.
> 
> He noted that the PLA air force had the resolve, faith, and capability to safeguard China's national sovereignty and territorial integrity.
> 
> Since April 18, the air force has conducted a series of island patrols, in order to exercise and enhance its capabilities to safeguard national sovereignty and territorial integrity.


If anyone has the said promotional video, please share it here or it's link. I will have interests for the English, Chinese, Cantonese and Minnanhua versions to accommodate varying groups of audience  Be able to share the offline copies are preferred. Thanks.

Here's news link from Xinhua:
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/28/c_137144293.htm


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## eldamar

samsara said:


> If anyone has the said promotional video, please share it here or it's link. I will have interests for the English, Chinese, Cantonese and Minnanhua versions to accommodate varying groups of audience  Be able to share the offline copies are preferred. Thanks.
> 
> Here's news link from Xinhua:
> http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/28/c_137144293.htm


Mandarin: http://v.ifeng.com/video_14099965.shtml
Hokkien: http://www.iqiyi.com/v_19rrcrrtv8.html

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## Beast

eldarlmari said:


> Mandarin: http://v.ifeng.com/video_14099965.shtml
> Hokkien: http://www.iqiyi.com/v_19rrcrrtv8.html


Its not called Hokkien. It called Min Nan language. Even Taiwanese themselves never used Hokkien as the description for the language. Fuzhou language also originated from province of Fujian but it sounds differently from Min Nan and considered Min Dong language. If you used Hokkien as the word to describe the language, people will confused, whether you are talking about Min Nan or Fuzhou(Min Dong) language.

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## eldamar

Beast said:


> Its not called Hokkien. It called Min Nan language. Even Taiwanese themselves never used Hokkien as the description for the language. Fuzhou language also originated from province of Fujian but it sounds differently from Min Nan and considered Min Dong language. If you used Hokkien as the word to describe the language, people will confused, whether you are talking about Min Nan or Fuzhou(Min Dong) language.


not that u are wrong(atually u are, in some aspects),* but i stand by my reference.*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hokkien
https://www.ethnologue.com/language/nan
http://eastasiaorigin.blogspot.sg/2017/08/origin-of-southern-min-languages-hokkien.html














i speak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-Xian_Min myself(my grandparents hometown is in https://baike.baidu.com/item/莆田 , https://baike.baidu.com/item/涵江区 ) and Hokkien_(aka Minnan)_ never refers to Fuzhou/Fuqing/Ningde(_Mindong_) or even inland dialects(_Minbei/Minzhong_). *It's a putative reference to exclusively Minnan only.*

A clearer example to see this would be the word tea.

u know where the English word 'tea' came from?

it's from the Hokkien(aka Minnan) pronounication of '茶‘ which is 'deh' because that's where the British first imported tea from China during the 17th century- the ports of Quanzhou/Xiamen.

Now if u have to insist, i absoutely agree that the formal way of calling '茶‘- would be simply 'cha'. But because im generalizing from a English language pronounication of this entity, i would use 'tea'.

1 last example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koxinga

Again, the formal way to refer to him would be 'Zheng chenggong'. However, his name is westernised as 'Koxinga', which originated from the Dutch when they first encountered him in Taiwan, and of which ultimately stems from the Hokkien aka Minnan pronounication 'Gok+Seng+Ya' of his name. Though he was born in Nagasaki, he was a Nan'an, Quanzhou(called 'Lam Oa, Zuan Jiu' in minnan) native and his troops were mostly from Minnan region along the coast- Hence, he came to be called 'Koxinga' in english(and dutch) language mediums.

Same thing y i used 'Hokkien' instead of 'Minnan'- because it's the westernised english term to refer to this group of dialects.

Same thing why overseas ethnic chinese call ourselves 'Tang Chinese' but never 'Han Chinese'- *it's just a different term of referring to the same entity.*

Thanks.

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## samsara

Thanks you two, dudes, a slight deviation has popped up some new, interesting info, and links for further reading, useful to enrich readers' knowledge on Min Nan — Min Dong - Min Bei/Min Zhong  Have good day, dudes! 

Talking about the common usage of 'Tangren' 唐人 vs 'Hanren' 汉人, here is some nice light reading.
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-some-C...ves-as-Tang-Chinese-唐人-and-not-Han-Chinese-汉人

The brief explanation is:

—SOUTHERN Chinese dialects like Cantonese and Hokkien use ‘Tang people’ 唐人.
—Mandarin, originally a NORTHERN Chinese dialect that evolved into Modern Chinese today — uses ‘Han people’ 汉人.

And some tidbits of the complex and vast Chinese civilization [so complex that it reminds me of the funny Kecho guy who tried to talk about the Chineseness in the SCS thread while he knows so little about it, quite amusing indeed]  The 'Tangren' 唐人 transforms into some popular terms (in Asia, in particular in the S.E.A) in other dialects : “Teng-lang” (Minnan/Hokkien); “Tong-yin” (Hakka/Kejia 客家) and so forth, and that's how the Huaren 华人 address themselves in conversing using own dialects 

我的外祖父母来自福建，而我的祖父母则来自广东。
Thanks also @eldarlmari for the PV links. Cool, I got the offline copies from your above links, though just in standard resolution. However, the Minnan version (04:45) is not exactly the same as the Mandarín one (02:02), and I think this Minnan version has too loud the background music, covering the narration.

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## cirr



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## Akasa

cirr said:


> View attachment 470849



How recent is this photo? Could this be related to the JH-XX bomber program?


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## Figaro

Akasa said:


> How recent is this photo? Could this be related to the JH-XX bomber program?


A demonstrator does not really indicate that the JH-XX program is still alive and well ... in fact, we don't even know if it even is the JH-XX. Probably just some standard simulator


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## Deino

cirr said:


> View attachment 470849




has some resemblance to this 3D-concept.

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## cirr

Inaugural meeting of PLAAF's first H-6N unit held.

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## 帅的一匹

cirr said:


> Inaugural meeting of PLAAF's first H-6N unit held.


Those H6 with refueling probe?


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## cirr

wanglaokan said:


> Those H6 with refueling probe?



Correct.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> Inaugural meeting of PLAAF's first H-6N unit held.



Any info where? ... and PLAAF? I thought the N model is slated for the Naval Aviation!


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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 471523
> View attachment 471524
> 
> SAC...



Sorry, but that claim is outright false.

The Sharp Sword UCAV demonstrator has already completed its developmental phase and is transitioning a combat-capable drone.
The J-16D & J-15D are all in testing and should enter service in a few years.
The J-16 is already in service.
The FC-31 allegedly will become the basis for the next-generation carrier-borne fighter for the PLAN.
The Divine Eagle URAV has been spotted to be under testing.
The JH-XX bomber is still in the concept phase so it's a bit premature to call it a successful or unsuccessful venture.

So, what exactly is the major disappointment here?


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## LKJ86

Akasa said:


> Sorry, but that claim is outright false.
> 
> The Sharp Sword UCAV demonstrator has already completed its developmental phase and is transitioning a combat-capable drone.
> The J-16D & J-15D are all in testing and should enter service in a few years.
> The J-16 is already in service.
> The FC-31 allegedly will become the basis for the next-generation carrier-borne fighter for the PLAN.
> The Divine Eagle URAV has been spotted to be under testing.
> The JH-XX bomber is still in the concept phase so it's a bit premature to call it a successful or unsuccessful venture.
> 
> So, what exactly is the major disappointment here?


Can you read Chinese?


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Can you read Chinese?



No ... and therefore I beg for a translation.


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> No ... and therefore I beg for a translation.



The author of the post is complaining of the following:
- 4 of the pictured projects have Russian lineage
- 2 of the projects have not been approved
- 1 of the projects have just begun but the export customer was unsatisfied with it
- The final project can't even fool its own creators into thinking that it's good (bad translation, my take on it)

The rest of the post is just one massive dump on SAC in general, even though I need to point out that some of the statements are not in agreement with rumors from credible "big shrimps" & insiders.


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## LKJ86

Akasa said:


> The author of the post is complaining of the following:
> - 4 of the pictured projects have Russian lineage
> - 2 of the projects have not been approved
> - 1 of the projects have just begun but the export customer was unsatisfied with it
> - The final project can't even fool its own creators into thinking that it's good (bad translation, my take on it)
> 
> The rest of the post is just one massive dump on SAC in general, even though I need to point out that some of the statements are not in agreement with rumors from credible "big shrimps" & insiders.


SAC needs to do better.


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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> SAC needs to do better.



Based on what precedents? SAC has a far bigger workload than CAC as well.

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## LKJ86

Akasa said:


> Based on what precedents? SAC has a far bigger workload than CAC as well.


能力越大，责任越大


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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> 能力越大，责任越大


那么你在抱怨什么? 

So why are you complaining about SAC's apparent "incompetency" compared to CAC?


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## LKJ86

Akasa said:


> 那么你在抱怨什么?
> 
> So why are you complaining about SAC's apparent "incompetency" compared to CAC?


爱之深，责之切


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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> 爱之深，责之切



It has little to do with "love" for one institution over the other, but a clear look at the stated facts.


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## LKJ86



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## Ultima Thule

yusheng said:


> View attachment 471705
> 
> View attachment 471707


Fake @yusheng above pic is fake @yusheng


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

yusheng said:


> View attachment 471705
> 
> View attachment 471707



Sound like an hypersonic bomber to me


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## yusheng

i did not say it is ture, but give some ....
what is next？


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## Ultima Thule

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Sound like an hypersonic bomber to me


more like hypesonic spy plane than a bomber like suspected AURORA and SR-72 @Kiss_of_the_Dragon 











yusheng said:


> i did not say it is ture, but give some ....
> what is next？



So why you post if this pic are not true (Fake) and what is purpose to put this fake pic in PLAAF PIC THREAD @yusheng  if it its not true, and give us the source of this pic @yusheng


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## Deino

CFTE Xi'an-Yanliang - 20180418 ... even if I don't know how the J-10D (??) and J-11Ds were identified, an overall impressive image.

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## 帅的一匹

China is doing a mammoth mammoth mammoth airforce build-up, if I were American, I will get worried as well.



Deino said:


> CFTE Xi'an-Yanliang - 20180418 ... even if I don't know how the J-10D (??) and J-11Ds were identified, an overall impressive image.
> 
> View attachment 471805


J10D!?

The position of J10's landing gear need to be changed, it block the belly hanging point. Or it can have two PL12 below the side of its intake.


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## Figaro

wanglaokan said:


> China is doing a mammoth mammoth mammoth airforce build-up, if I were American, I will get worried as well.
> 
> 
> J10D!?
> 
> The position of J10's landing gear need to be changed, it block the belly hanging point. Or it can have two PL12 below the side of its intake.


Indeed. Even the best PLAAF observers underestimate the number of combat aircraft, especially 4th and 5th generation fighters. We haven't had a picture of a new J-10C serial in a very long time, so I suspect the Chinese have gone to great lengths to cover up their capabilities. Smart move. And I read somewhere that there may be up to 30 Y-20s from an AVIC document ... Pretty amazing.

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## beijingwalker

*Chinese Air Force carries out competition between fighters and ground-to-air unit*

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## Cybernetics

F-16 mock-up

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

2018.5.10





























2018.5.9

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> 2018.5.10
> View attachment 473154
> View attachment 473155
> View attachment 473156
> View attachment 473157
> View attachment 473158
> View attachment 473159
> View attachment 473160
> View attachment 473161
> View attachment 473162
> 
> 
> 2018.5.9
> View attachment 473163
> View attachment 473164
> View attachment 473165
> View attachment 473166
> View attachment 473167
> View attachment 473168
> View attachment 473169
> View attachment 473170
> View attachment 473171


May you please tell us who were those VIP visitors? Why did they matter here?

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## LKJ86



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## Zarvan

*China's Su-35 Jets Participate In Bashi Channel Patrol To Deter 'Taiwan Independence'*





Chinese H-6K bomber (Image: Wikipedia)


China’s Su-35 fighter jets along with H-6K bombers participated in Bashi Channel patrol in combat training and testing toprovide a deterrence to ‘Taiwan independence forces’, a Chinese military expert said.

"The island patrol revealed that China's Su-35 fighter jets are combat-ready. With a stronger command and strike capability, the Su-35's participation provides a stronger deterrence to 'Taiwan independence' forces," Song Zhongping, a Chinese military expert and TV commentator was quoted as saying by Global Times Friday.

Several H-6K bombers and surveillance aircraft from south and east theatre commands flew over Bashi Channel on Friday. They were accompanied by Su-35 and J-11 fighter jets, Shen Jinke, PLA Air Force spokesperson said.

It was the first time that the fighter jets and bombers and new fighter jets participated in combat training, the PLA Air Force announced on its Weibo account.

More new fighters will appear in island patrols, and the PLA Air Force will conduct more island patrols involving multiple fighters, Shen said.

A PLA Air Force formation conducted island patrols on April 26, and the formation, made up of fighters, early warning and surveillance aircraft, and H-6K bombers flew over the Bashi Channel, Xinhua News Agency reported.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/22...l_to_Deter__Taiwan_Independence_#.WvWQK4iFNPY

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## MReynolds

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 473480



Is that a Y-20 AEW&C?


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## Ultima Thule

MReynolds said:


> Is that a Y-20 AEW&C?


 its clearly KJ-2000, look at the nose Y-20 has a slightly different nosecone eg drop nosecone @MReynolds

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## MReynolds

pakistanipower said:


> its clearly KJ-2000, look at the nose Y-20 has a slightly different nosecone eg drop nosecone @MReynolds



Thanks. I was looking at the hump part of the wing connecting to the main body.


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## LKJ86

JH-7A

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 473735




Can you please explain what happens there?


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## Gomig-21

LKJ86 said:


> H-7A



What a beautiful aircraft. Any idea what that pod is on the starboard wing?


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## jhungary

Deino said:


> Can you please explain what happens there?



Some sort of parade

The banner read

"Fighting North and South forge the man and the machine, Brotherhood last forever" 

You be the judge.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> ..
> View attachment 473721




Well the 83rd Regiment (by the serial number?!) or already 83rd Brigade's badge!


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## cirr

New J-16 brigade under PLAAF Western Theater Command

http://www.81.cn/jwgz/2018-05/13/content_8029790.htm

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## Deino

cirr said:


> New J-16 brigade under PLAAF Western Theater Command
> 
> http://www.81.cn/jwgz/2018-05/13/content_8029790.htm




Any idea of its number / identity?


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## cirr

Deino said:


> Any idea of its number / identity?



The 98th, the whole brigade.

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## Deino

cirr said:


> The 98th, the whole brigade.



But wasn't this brigade not already converted some time ago?


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## LKJ86

PLAAF latest official video
http://card.weibo.com/video/h5/detail?object_id=2017607:62ecf7c5932c50cb05bcd87fddcff77d

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## LKJ86

2018.5.11

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## LKJ86

2018.5.12

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> PLAAF latest official video
> http://card.weibo.com/video/h5/detail?object_id=2017607:62ecf7c5932c50cb05bcd87fddcff77d


A cool footage! Thanks for sharing here. It's titled to “_*The New Flight Path for PLAAF*_”  Worth to watch


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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1403915120/4240072457405764

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## cirr

New Special Aircrafts Division established in Shanghai

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## Deino

cirr said:


> New Special Aircrafts Division established in Shanghai
> 
> View attachment 474740



Hmm ?? looks very much like a *Y-8CB *_*Cub/High New 1 *_usually assigned to the 16th and 20th Divisions.

Shanghai is Eastern TC, so a new assignment to the 10th or 26th Divisions is likely or is it a new division??


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

PLAAF vs. PLANAF

























https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/iEMc0IEQBcRDsd8Lue4l8g

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## LKJ86

"红剑-2018"
https://m.weibo.cn/6005843218/4242915700745658


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## Title1234

UKBengali said:


> I think Rafale has AESA and Meteor ramjet BVRAAM already.
> Eurocanards can super cruise and are more agile than J-16. They would win in air combat against J-16.
> I agree that Chinese AESA radars are comparable to West.


Rafale is only F18 copy see their specification, has very similarities ,i am not sure it can supercruise.


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## LKJ86

“红剑-2018”

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

J-10C & J-16 & J-20

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## LKJ86




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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 478346



Where is this?? Wuhu?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

2x J-10C & 2x J-11B vs 2x J-10C & 2x J-11B

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 478515
> View attachment 478516
> View attachment 478517
> View attachment 478518
> View attachment 478519
> View attachment 478520
> View attachment 478521
> View attachment 478522



Seriously, China is still using F-7? please don't to put our pilot's life as target practice for enemies.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Seriously, China is still using F-7? please don't to put our pilot's life as target practice for enemies.


Mainly for training and 哭穷.


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## Figaro

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Seriously, China is still using F-7? please don't to put our pilot's life as target practice for enemies.


To be fair, I highly doubt China would ever put the F-7 in the frontlines during wartime. At best, they will be used for low tier interception missions ... the PLAAF knows they are essentially metal coffins against the F-35 or even F-16.

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## LKJ86



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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

LKJ86 said:


> 哭穷.



lol ok


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## khanasifm

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Seriously, China is still using F-7? please don't to put our pilot's life as target practice for enemies.



Still have quite a few check orbit, last time the number of f7 and a5s were over 300-400 range assuming 6 -8 brigades eq aircraft each having about 50 Ac

F-8 are also there pretty much older gen 

Even j-6 showing up may be in UVA and other roles 

I think adding j-10 and j11/15/16 series get them ~500-600 or so so majority it plaaf still need to replace quite a few older gen

http://www.scramble.nl/orbats


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## Grandy

*The curious case of the reappearing Dark Sword/Anjian*





_twitter/5uQd7WZPb3_

Images of a remotely piloted fighter jet designed by Chinese aircraft makers caused immediate paranoia on Tuesday at *Business Insider*, which dubbed the aircraft a “nightmare for the US.”

The Dark Sword jet brings several threats to the table, BI reported. For example, the aircraft has supersonic flight performance, as indicated by "F-22-style vertical stabilizers," air combat expert Justin Bronk of British think tank Royal United Services told the outlet.

The US Navy initiated an unmanned combat aircraft program in the early 2000s, but it was eventually terminated. Northrop Grumman's X-47B aircraft demonstrator conducted flight tests in 2013 from an aircraft carrier, but the Navy decided to develop a drone to perform aerial refueling missions for carrier operations instead. That program, now known as the MQ-25A Stingray, aims to put drone tankers onto carriers by the mid-2020s.

In addition to its speed, Dark Sword could give China an edge by relieving Beijing from having to train so many pilots, Bronk said, especially if the fighter-style drones can be mass produced. Large numbers of Dark Swords could "at the very least soak up missiles from US fighters," he said. "If you can produce lots of them, quantity has a quality of its own."

"At the very best," the supersonic plane would become a viable fighter aircraft in its own right, Bronk noted, in which case the US could be confronting a massive force of remotely piloted supersonic aircraft that might even exhibit greater maneuverability than manned adversaries since there is no pilot physically inside the plane whose vitals must be protected, BI reports. Piloted aircraft are limited in their maneuverability by g-forces exerted on the pilots inside, as too sharp a turn can force blood out of the pilot's head and cause loss of consciousness.

Nevertheless, the expert said that since "we only see what the Chinese want us to see," the plane's specifications on paper don't imply its actual fighting capabilities.

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## Title1234

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Seriously, China is still using F-7? please don't to put our pilot's life as target practice for enemies.


Example LAO border just uses J7 is enough , no need for J10.lao royal airforce has no fighter aircraft.


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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 478841
> View attachment 478842
> View attachment 478843




Where is this base?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Title1234 said:


> Example LAO border just uses J7 is enough , no need for J10.lao royal airforce has no fighter aircraft.



Laos is not even an enemy, why we need J7 at their border?


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## LKJ86




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## Pepsi Cola

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Laos is not even an enemy, why we need J7 at their border?



Politics change all the time.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 478992



Again ... please where is this?


----------



## Daniel808

Deino said:


> Again ... please where is this?



China

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## Deino

Daniel808 said:


> China




Oh well ... a true genius has spoken.


----------



## LKJ86

*PLA Air Force "Blue Shield-18" joint air defense exercise*
Video:http://v.ifeng.com/video_15883376.shtml


----------



## UserUnknown2025

怎么感觉有个人在套情报？每次发个图片他都问在哪里拍的。

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## Deino

UserUnknown2025 said:


> 怎么感觉有个人在套情报？每次发个图片他都问在哪里拍的。




Could you please post in English which is the official language of this Forum ... even if you - as exemplified by Your post - don't like my questions?


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## LKJ86



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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1005981608560607232*Royal NZ Air Force *‏Verified account @NZAirForce 57m57 minutes ago
NEWS || A Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force aircraft has landed at Base Auckland. The Iluysian-76 will be joining No. 40 Squadron during Exercise Skytrain over the next two weeks. #Force4NZ #NZAirForce

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## LKJ86




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## Title1234

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 479595


What kind of this aircraft?


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## LKJ86

Title1234 said:


> What kind of this aircraft?


L-15 and its...


----------



## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> L-15 and its...



How credible are these rumors and where are they from? Who posted them first?


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## TOTUU

Deino said:


> Where is this base?



please don't ask this type question again ! though this is a defence forum , but not a spy forum , it has a bounds ! every country's military base is secret . don't ask again ! Please !


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## Akasa

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> please don't ask this type question again ! though this is a defence forum , but not a spy forum , it has a bounds ! every country's military base is secret . don't ask again ! Please !



Where is this base?


----------



## 帅的一匹

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> please don't ask this type question again ! though this is a defence forum , but not a spy forum , it has a bounds ! every country's military base is secret . don't ask again ! Please !


he can ask, but its people choice to anwser it or not. watch out, national security might invite somebody for tea chat.

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## TOTUU

Akasa said:


> Where is this base?


retarded boy ，where is your mother ？ I‘m waiting ,it's important !

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## TOTUU

Akasa said:


> Perhaps, but is it as important as knowing *where is this base*?


yes , retarded boy , where is your mother ? why you so stupid ? please tell me ,it is important ,very important !

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## Title1234

Akasa said:


> How credible are these rumors and where are they from? Who posted them first?


 L15 AND JL 15?


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## Akasa

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> no first !! 1, base is secret ,your mother not !
> 2, base not important than your mother , without your mother, there would be no you ,without the base , you were still were you .
> so please tell me ,where is your mother ! it's not a secret , boy , no need to keep secret .



The real secret is, where is this base?



Title1234 said:


> L15 AND JL 15?



Looks like an L-15 with a possible light attack aircraft derived from it?


----------



## TOTUU

Akasa said:


> But a very important inquiry first ... ... ... where is this base?


where is your mother ?I care about your mother , why you can't tell me ? why ? can you tell me why ? Do you have valid reasons for your not reply ? 
military base is secret , your mother is not ! please tell me , canada child .

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## rcrmj

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> where is your mother ?I care about your mother , why you can't tell me ? why ? can you tell me why ? Do you have valid reasons for your not reply ?
> military base is secret , your mother is not ! please tell me , canada child .


you better stop that, there is no point of posting such things````besides most of us only know the stuff PLA wanted us to know, and those secret things are nowhere for us to find```like the facility that B-20 is developing at the moment````

besides, for that picture, giving people time, using google earth anyone can find it```

and btw, the location of military base is not a secret for most time (satellite can find it anyway), but whats inside are```

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## rcrmj

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> BAN IS not problem , I also tell deino too , not ask this type question ! military base not right question in this forum !
> I think Deino is a spy , or working for the intelligence community .


lol, if he is a spy then not a good one```cause I "know" more than he does, and "they" only told me stuffs that are not within security protocol```spies do not work on forums like here```as they cant get anything that is highly classifed or worth digging```my cousin in law who works in 国安局 ```I know where and how those spies work in China``````infact for last decade there are more than half dozen American citizens were just "vanished" in China````````````



BOMB OF LOVE said:


> I know , I just educating the retarded Canadian boy . LOL
> 会问在哪个军事基地，军事基地在哪的，十有八九是间谍，或者是为情报工作的，包括那个DEINO ！
> 军迷一般问的都是武器，武器性能，很少会问这类问题，会问，而且很平凡的问的，绝对有问题。
> on this website , Ask where is the military base, are some special people -----Ordinary people don't ask this question, just 。。。。


你想太多了，中国的军事机密和情报不是开玩笑的，这里的人根本没有什么机密，而且我们军迷也经常收集基地资料。难道我们也是间谍？问题是我们爬墙党在围墙外面拍摄的时候警卫也不管，但是如果有重要项目展示那么就会管制····所以现在这个年代还有什么军事基地是机密的是没有的事情·····地图上找找一大片······

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## Deino

BOMB OF LOVE said:


> BAN IS not problem , I also tell deino too , not ask this type question ! military base not right question in this forum !
> I think Deino is a spy , or working for the intelligence community .




*First of all NO, I'm just an enthusiast and in ordinary life I'm a teacher for Chemistry and Sports. *
*So all your fuss is pure BS .... and therefore I ask you for the final time to calm down your tone, no longer insult any other members.*

*If you don't like the question, just ignore it ... but to call other retarded, stupid or spies juts since they call question of interest is not allowed.*

*Period.*

Deino



Akasa said:


> How credible are these rumors and where are they from? Who posted them first?



I won't rate this reliable ... I know this image since years even before the first real JL-10 flew.

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## LKJ86

J-8F & GJ-1

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> *First of all NO, I'm just an enthusiast and in ordinary life I'm a teacher for Chemistry and Sports. *
> *So all your fuss is pure BS .... and therefore I ask you for the final time to calm down your tone, no longer insult any other members.*
> 
> *If you don't like the question, just ignore it ... but to call other retarded, stupid or spies juts since they call question of interest is not allowed.*
> 
> *Period.*
> 
> Deino
> 
> 
> 
> I won't rate this reliable ... I know this image since years even before the first real JL-10 flew.


To be fair, him calling you a spy/intelligence gatherer is actually a compliment ...

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> To be fair, him calling you a spy/intelligence gatherer is actually a compliment ...




But a spy is someone who makes that intentionally for his country, for money ...

By the way, the warning he got not for calling me whatever but for insulting others.


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## Olli Ranta

Deino said:


> But a spy is someone who makes that intentionally for his country, for money ...
> By the way, the warning he got not for calling me whatever but for insulting others.


Sometime in 2017 i had the next for J-20 forum (But then there are other cases..):
This is a public forum on sensitive military matters and there are interested hostile parties around. Some discussants know more than they are allowed to tell. There are approaches to encourage them to slip out things:
* Negative provocation: Tell that Chinese stuff is valueless rubbish and wait for an angry rebuttal with details.
* Positive provocation:Tell that their stuff is superb and wait for an eager confirmation with details.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> J-8F & GJ-1
> View attachment 479643



Interesting, and again my question, where this is??




Akasa said:


> The real secret is, where is this base?



At Kashgar (39.540538°/76.036307°)


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## LKJ86



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## JSCh

*China unveils anti stealth radar on World Radar Expo*
CGTN
Published on Jun 14, 2018

The Eighth World Radar Expo is taking place at Nanjing International Exhibition Center from June 14-16, in Nanjing City, east China's Jiangsu Province. The theme of the exhibition is "deep integration, technological innovation.” The radar type YLC-8B integrates the traditional detection method of mechanical scanning with advanced phased array technology, and is best known for being able to detect stealth aircraft. Fourth-generation air surveillance radars can be rapidly deployed and are powerful enough to detect some low-orbiting satellites.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## JSCh

*China’s quantum radar to monitor high-speed aircraft from space*
Source:Global Times Published: 2018/6/15 16:06:23

A quantum radar, developed by the 14th Institute of China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC), was shown at the 8th International Radar Exposition on Thursday. 

The radar proves that the technology of single photon detection can be applied on radars. 

Xia Linhao, a representative of the institute, said quantum radar technology has largely been mature theoretically, and has entered the phase of experimental realization.

Due to disturbances in the Earth's atmosphere, the detection distance of conventional radars is relatively limited. Quantum radar systems are able to considerably increase detection distance and monitor high-speed aircraft in the Earth's upper atmosphere and even in space.

CETC successfully developed China's first quantum radar system in August 2016, Xinhua News Agency reported.

In tests conducted in a real atmospheric environment, the system could detect over 100 kilometers, Xinhua reported. 

Other exhibits at the expo include a radar system that uses microwave photons, which is said to have great application value.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

So 78th Brigade has now also a few J-8H (or HFs ?) with the black radome and no longer the older variants?


----------



## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Wow 

similar impressive to see that there are also 6 H-6K on the tarmac ... and this is only a small section of the XAC facitily at Xi'an Yanliang.

via: http://photo.weibo.com/5596911390/talbum/detail/photo_id/4258015856601516

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1971538745/4258062107934735

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 484207
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/1971538745/4258062107934735




Please translate ...


----------



## LKJ86

Electronic warfare units of PLAAF

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## LKJ86

Y-7

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## Cybernetics

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1017445959955984384

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## Genesis

Deino said:


> Please translate ...


this one isnt that vital. More of a fun take on things.

first image: chinese media says j20 all over the air field. bunny: nice
second image: american media says all is not well. bunny: mmm.
third image: chinese military "insiders" blah blah blah. bunny: hopefully its doing good.

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## LKJ86

Genesis said:


> this one isnt that vital. More of a fun take on things.
> 
> first image: chinese media says j20 all over the air field. bunny: nice
> second image: american media says all is not well. bunny: mmm.
> third image: chinese military "insiders" blah blah blah. bunny: hopefully its doing good.


No, it is about Y-20


LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 484183


----------



## Genesis

LKJ86 said:


> No, it is about Y-20


lol read it wrong, saw 20 and my mind went to the J.


----------



## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 486444
> View attachment 486445
> View attachment 486446
> View attachment 486447
> View attachment 486448
> View attachment 486449




Impressive but what a mix of different jnits in different colours  ... there are some starting with 71xxx and others with 41xxx ... most interesting.


----------



## khanasifm

Plaaf and plaan still has substantial number of older gen aircraft to replace a5, f-7, f-8 and even j6s 

Between 300-600 total


----------



## LKJ86

khanasifm said:


> Plaaf and plaan still has substantial number of older gen aircraft to replace a5, f-7, f-8 and even j6s
> 
> Between 300-600 total


Q-5 and J-6 have been retired.
There are just J-7 and J-8.


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Q-5 and J-6 have been retired.
> There are just J-7 and J-8.



Really all Q-5s?


----------



## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Really all Q-5s?


Yes, in 2017.

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## khanasifm

LKJ86 said:


> Q-5 and J-6 have been retired.
> There are just J-7 and J-8.



Scrabble lists plaaf and plaan order of battle

Plié other sources how reliable are who knows 

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-air-force-1700-combat-aircraft-ready-war-22940


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## LKJ86

khanasifm said:


> Scrabble lists plaaf and plaan order of battle
> 
> Plié other sources how reliable are who knows
> 
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-air-force-1700-combat-aircraft-ready-war-22940


From PLA's official newspaper in 2017/03/02:

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## rcrmj

Deino said:


> Impressive but what a mix of different jnits in different colours  ... there are some starting with 71xxx and others with 41xxx ... most interesting.


red underwear = optimistic
withe underwear = pesmistic

in our forums, we use that underwear analogy instead of optimism or pesmitism````
for example, in terms of China radar and stealth technology I am red underwear; but to turbofan engine technology i'm still on my white unders`````



Deino said:


> Impressive but what a mix of different jnits in different colours  ... there are some starting with 71xxx and others with 41xxx ... most interesting.


red underwear = optimistic
withe underwear = pesmistic

in our forums, we use that underwear analogy instead of optimism or pesmitism````
for example, in terms of China radar and stealth technology I am red underwear; but to turbofan engine technology i'm still on my white unders`````

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## Brainsucker

LKJ86 said:


> From PLA's official newspaper in 2017/03/02:
> View attachment 486491
> 
> 
> View attachment 486505



You don't need to translate everything, but tell me what they're talking about.


----------



## LKJ86

Brainsucker said:


> You don't need to translate everything, but tell me what they're talking about.


They are talking about the the elimination of Q-5 regiments in 2017.

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## Figaro

khanasifm said:


> Scrabble lists plaaf and plaan order of battle
> 
> Plié other sources how reliable are who knows
> 
> http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/chinas-air-force-1700-combat-aircraft-ready-war-22940


National Interest is definitely not a "reliable source" ... I'd take LKJ's word over it any day.


----------



## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

The only female captain of Y-9

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Y-9

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 486444



Looks like the so far missing 99th Brigade ... ... at least they share the same badge (former 33rd Division) on the tail.




[/QUOTE]


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## LKJ86




----------



## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/6111786953/4265234040799483

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## LKJ86

Dingxin

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## LKJ86



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## Figaro

Do you guys know how many military satellites the PLA has in operation?


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## samsara

Figaro said:


> Do you guys know how many military satellites the PLA has in operation?


WHAT a question, Figaro  Hahaha 

And I bet you won't find such info *any where *no matter how deep you're digging.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> WHAT a question, Figaro  Hahaha
> 
> And I bet you won't find such info *any where *no matter how deep you're digging.


The funny thing is I read in a Times Magazine article that China only had 39 military satellites ... not sure if it's true or not.


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## samsara

Figaro said:


> The funny thing is I read in a Times Magazine article that China only had 39 military satellites ... not sure if it's true or not.


Yeah, as good as the figure on the strategic nuclear force of China. THEY may create any figure/story/new reality as THEY wish… There are only their readers to blame if those consumers just swallow whatever THEY are offering… 

Just verify which actual party controls the media or group of media any time in doubt. There maybe thousands of media in all kinds but less than 10 SUPER HOLDINGS in both sides of Atlantic that control at least 90 per cent of the publications/broadcast/media biz!!

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/6111786953/4277004600125781

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 488998




Is it me or does these Su-30MKKs have a new tail art?


----------



## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

J-20, J-16, J-10C, Su-35 ... from a new PLAAF's official video:
https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4278037270410237

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## JSCh

*Look at the "coolest Freshmen Opening Ceremony" in North China*
New China TV
Published on Aug 30, 2018

The coolest opening ceremony for new students ever! Take a look at the stunning air show in China's only pilot school Aviation University of Air Force.

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## BHarwana

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1035696648578453504

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## yusheng



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

J-7 & J-8

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## LKJ86



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## haidian

* China PLA Air Force flies into New Era*
*



*

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## LKJ86

J-8

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## Deino

Any idea where this is?


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## LKJ86

http://ep.cannews.com.cn/publish/zghkb7/html/1415//node_052144.html

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## LKJ86

*




Happy Mid-Autumn festival!*

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## siegecrossbow

LKJ86 said:


> *
> View attachment 500888
> 
> Happy Mid-Autumn festival!*



The next day:

"Mystery solved! Chinese fighter jets use moon cakes as radars" -- Alex Lockie.

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## LKJ86

siegecrossbow said:


> The next day:
> 
> "Chinese fighter jets use moon cakes as radars" -- Alexi Lockie.


Who is Alexi Lockie?


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## ZeEa5KPul

LKJ86 said:


> Who is Alexi Lockie?


Consider yourself lucky that you don't know.

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> Who is Alexi Lockie?


*Alex Lockie is a news editor and a military and foreign-policy blogger at Business Insider. He is from Atlanta, USA.*




_Alex Lockie — Business Insider_

Here's one excerpt of his article on the J-20.

*China appears to have rushed its J-20 stealth fighter into service with an ’embarrassing’ flaw*
By _Alex Lockie, Business Insider US_
February 12, 2018

—China on Friday announced its J-20 stealth fighter had entered into combat service – but military sources told the South China Morning Post that it had an “embarrassing” flaw.

—Makeshift engines in the J-20 mean that it cannot fly or fight as a true fifth-generation jet and that its stealth has been compromised.

—It looks as if China rushed the plane into service, and it’s unlikely to be fully operational for at least a year.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1044973645800591361

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## JSCh

*China's wind tunnel to shape future fighter jets: experts*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2018/9/26 22:48:40
*
FL-62 simulates air flow around aircraft before real flight test*

The nation's newest wind tunnel will shape China's future fighter jets and boost their efficiency, according to its maker and Chinese military experts.

Approved for construction by the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence in 2012, the FL-62 wind tunnel will be completed "very soon," according to a statement by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China released on its WeChat account on Tuesday.

Weighing 6,620 tons, the 17,000-cubic-meter FL-62 is China's first-ever large continuous transonic wind tunnel, its maker said in the statement.

Unlike the unstable and inconsistent airflow of previous Chinese wind tunnels, the FL-62 is able to provide a stable wind field and more precise measurements, Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

In this way, many unnecessary trials and errors can be avoided in the designing of a new aircraft, significantly reducing its development period, Song said.

A wind tunnel is used to simulate the airflow around an aircraft before it conducts a real flight test.

The results help shape and improve the aerodynamic design of the aircraft, the statement said.

The statement dubbed the FL-62 a "pillar of a great power," calling it a fundamental and strategic facility crucial to China's aviation industry.

The corporation noted specifically in the headline of the statement that the FL-62 will decide the shape of China's future fighter jets and will serve as a backbone for China's development of cutting-edge aircraft.

With the help of the tunnel, China's sixth generation of fighter jets can be more aerodynamic and stealthy than ever before, Song said.

China's sixth generation fighters will include artificial intelligence, have multiple unmanned aerial vehicles under their command and be equipped with directed-energy weapons like lasers and high-power microwaves, Song said.

China's most advanced fighter jet, the J-20, was developed by Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Company, a member of the Aviation Industry Corporation of China.

The J-20 was delivered to the People's Liberation Army in 2017.

In addition to the development of new fighter jets, the wind tunnel can also contribute to space research.

The tunnel is expected to see use in fields like transportation, construction, new energy and environmental protection, the statement reads.

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## samsara

haidian said:


> * China PLA Air Force flies into New Era*
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *


The clip is no longer available! The poster's account was terminated by youtube 
That clip is a cool one. The official explanation as usual:







P.S. Btw, miss not the 2018 FIVB Women's WCH 2018年女排世锦赛 that kicks off today, daytime in Japan, for over 2 weeks, some greatest entertainments are expected! Eyes are set to there

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## Beast

samsara said:


> The clip is no longer available! The poster's account was terminated by youtube
> That clip is a cool one. The official explanation as usual:
> 
> View attachment 501748


That is an excuse. YouTube serving neo con agenda will try every means to suppress China technology achievement. If the video can't be deleted, the usual troll will come in full force attack in the comment section.

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## Figaro

samsara said:


> *Alex Lockie is a news editor and a military and foreign-policy blogger at Business Insider. He is from Atlanta, USA.*
> View attachment 501298
> 
> _Alex Lockie — Business Insider_
> 
> Here's one excerpt of his article on the J-20.
> 
> *China appears to have rushed its J-20 stealth fighter into service with an ’embarrassing’ flaw*
> By _Alex Lockie, Business Insider US_
> February 12, 2018
> 
> —China on Friday announced its J-20 stealth fighter had entered into combat service – but military sources told the South China Morning Post that it had an “embarrassing” flaw.
> 
> —Makeshift engines in the J-20 mean that it cannot fly or fight as a true fifth-generation jet and that its stealth has been compromised.
> 
> —It looks as if China rushed the plane into service, and it’s unlikely to be fully operational for at least a year.


This guy is basically Kyle Mizokami, David Mujamundar, and David Axe combined into one entity.

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## samsara

Beast said:


> That is an excuse. YouTube serving neo con agenda will try every means to suppress China technology achievement. If the video can't be deleted, the usual troll will come in full force attack in the comment section.


Yeah, we may never know the true reasons behind this blockage and termination aside from the official line of the Alphabet's youtube. But I don't trust this entity due to the holding company's founding history, the actual ownership of the holding as well as those activities this holding is involved until today! Anyone who really reads should know its background!

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1048254565638922240

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

September 20, 2018

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## Deino

... and it was now almost exactly six years ago.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1053642903053049859

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## JSCh

jetfight2000
上传于 今天 10:44
来自 微博 weibo.com
9月29日，汉中，可以看出KJ-500预警机和KQ-200反潜机仍然是陕飞目前生产的主要机型。

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1056912679007408129

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## Cybernetics

Airforce promotional video "You are the legend"

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## Jäger

an artist impression of the Chengdu J-9 (which was canceled). Maybe J-10 uses J-9 technology?

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## ozranger

Bundeswehr said:


> an artist impression of the Chengdu J-9 (which was canceled). Maybe J-10 uses J-9 technology?
> View attachment 512963



They built up a massive database on several designs of J-9 with data they collected from wind tunnel tests for years. Because there was no fly by wire technology with good enough flight control computers during that period of time, the canards could only have fixed AoA and they had to iterate all possibly usable angles. Such data have finally contributed very big to J-10 and J-20. One of the J-9 twin engine design already has canard-LEX-delta-wing combination which we can see on today's J-20.











Look at the very unique canard-LEX-delta-wing combination on J-9VI.

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## samsara

May someone please post the link for AVIC promotional video for Zhuhai Airshow 2018.


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## JSCh

*China announces roadmap for building stronger modern air force*
Source: Xinhua| 2018-11-11 23:44:31|Editor: Mu Xuequan




GUANGZHOU, Nov. 11 (Xinhua) -- The Chinese Air Force on Sunday announced a roadmap for building a stronger modern air force in three steps.

The building of a stronger modern air force is in line with the overall goal of building national defense and the armed forces, Lieutenant General Xu Anxiang, deputy commander of Chinese Air Force, said at a press conference on celebrating the 69th anniversary of the establishment of Chinese Air Force held in Zhuhai, south China's Guangdong Province.

According to Xu, the first step is to, by 2020, build a strategic force that integrates aviation and space power, and strike and defense capabilities, in which the fourth generation of equipment serves as backbone and the third generation of equipment as mainstay. The systematic combat capabilities will be enhanced.

The second step requires the air force to improve strategic capabilities and modernize its theory, organizational structure, service personnel, and weaponry. The building of a modern and strategic air force will be basically completed by 2035, Xu said.

The third step will see the air force fully transformed into a world-class force by mid-21st century, according to Xu.

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## yusheng



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## JSCh

*PLA Air Force plans expansion into space to modernize capability*
By ZHAO LEI | China Daily | Updated: 2018-11-13 07:03



A J-20 fighter performs at the 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition (Airshow China) in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong province, Nov 11, 2018. The air show closed on Sunday. [Photo/Xinhua]

The People's Liberation Army Air Force intends to expand its presence into space as part of its plan to become a world-class force, a senior officer said on Sunday.

Senior Colonel Wang Zhonghua, head of the Planning Bureau of the PLA Air Force's Equipment Department, said at a news conference in Zhuhai, Guangdong province, that the Air Force spares no efforts in handling all threats, and is gearing up to extend its reach beyond the clouds and into space.

He said the Air Force is undergoing revolutionary changes that will generate a system that can function in future warfare scenarios.

The news conference coincided with the 69th anniversary of the Air Force's founding and was part of the six-day 12th China International Aviation and Aerospace Exhibition that concluded on Sunday in Zhuhai.

Lieutenant General Xu Anxiang, deputy commander of the Air Force, outlined a multiphase road map for building a strong, modern air force.

First, a strategic force will be established by 2020. It will have integrated air and space capability and balanced strength in both defensive and offensive operations.

When that is achieved, fourth-generation equipment will serve as the backbone of the Air Force's arsenal. Information-based systematic combat capabilities will be enhanced, he said.

The Air Force categorizes its top weapons such as the J-20 stealth fighter jet and Y-20 strategic transport aircraft as fourth-generation equipment, while the J-10 and J-16 combat fighters are classified as third-generation.

In the following phase, the Air Force will further improve its strategic capability and modernize its organizational structure, human resources and weaponry. The building of a modern strategic air force will essentially be achieved by 2035, Xu said.

Ultimately, the Air Force will be fully transformed into a world-class force by the mid-21st century, he said.

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## Deino

Must be 176th Brigade

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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Must be 176th Brigade
> 
> View attachment 521362



I think it's Photoshopped; the reflection of light off the aircraft doesn't match with that of the desert below. The planes also looked somewhat cropped / unnatural.


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## LKJ86

Akasa said:


> I think it's Photoshopped; the reflection of light off the aircraft doesn't match with that of the desert below. The planes also looked somewhat cropped / unnatural.


You are right.

https://m.weibo.cn/1601173705/4309538586474866

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> You are right.
> 
> https://m.weibo.cn/1601173705/4309538586474866



Indeed!

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 521390




So this is the real one?


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> So this is the real one?


Yep

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## LKJ86



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## Beast

PLAAF night refuelling ability.. From 7.00mins onwards.

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## ozranger

Beast said:


> PLAAF night refuelling ability.. From 7.00mins onwards.



Joint training with PLANAF Su-20MK2 and PLAAF IL-78

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## Beast




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## Beast

From 6.00mins onwards to 10.34mins, talk about J-10C, J-16 and J-20.

J-10C has high level of network, modern radar and is capable of air to ground and air to sea attack capabilities. Great air to air combat

J-16 has the most powerful fighter radar installed for PLAAF. It has the abilities to see enemy first and strike. Sometimes enemy dont even know J-16 whereabout and will get shot down without even know what hit them. J-16 also capable of directing enemy aircraft

J-20 basically a 5th gen fighter with everything leap from 4th gen fighter from network, operating system, stealth and situation awareness. It give them an edge over peer operating 4th gen fighter jet.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> From 6.00mins onwards to 10.34mins, talk about J-10C, J-16 and J-20.
> 
> J-10C has high level of network, modern radar and is capable of air to ground and air to sea attack capabilities. Great air to air combat
> 
> J-16 has the most powerful fighter radar installed for PLAAF. It has the abilities to see enemy first and strike. Sometimes enemy dont even know J-16 whereabout and will get shot down without even know what hit them. J-16 also capable of directing enemy aircraft
> 
> J-20 basically a 5th gen fighter with everything leap from 4th gen fighter from network, operating system, stealth and situation awareness. It give them an edge over peer operating 4th gen fighter jet.



Hmm?? ... so even more powerful that the J-20's radar??


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## Beast

From 6.00mins onwards to 10.34mins, talk about J-10C, J-16 and J-20.

J-10C has high level of network, modern radar and is capable of air to ground and air to sea attack capabilities. Great air to air combat

J-16 has the most powerful fighter radar installed for PLAAF. It has the abilities to see enemy first and strike. Sometimes enemy dont even know J-16 whereabout and will get shot down without even know what hit them.

J-20 basically a 5th gen fighter with everything leap from 4th gen fighter from network, operating system, stealth and situation awareness. It give them an edge over peer operating 4th gen fighter jet.


Deino said:


> Hmm?? ... so even more powerful that the J-20's radar??



Yes, according to the pilot.. J-16 can also act as a mini AWACS, center of directing aerial battle.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> Yes, according to the pilot.. J-16 can also act as a mini AWACS, center of directing aerial battle.




Thanks for your reply and indeed, that surprises me.


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Thanks for your reply and indeed, that surprises me.


May the J-16 radar is bigger than the one on J-20 due to the enormous nose cone of J-16. Therefore more raw power. Maybe also the reason why its price tag is more expensive than J-20.

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## ozranger

Beast said:


> May the J-16 radar is bigger than the one on J-20 due to the enormous nose cone of J-16. Therefore more raw power. Maybe also the reason why its price tag is more expensive than J-20.


Size matters


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## Beast

ozranger said:


> Size matters


Yes... more T/R ,more power.

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 521390


The video of J-20, J-16 and J-10C from PLAAF's weibo:
https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4310606625054233

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## LKJ86

Beast said:


> May the J-16 radar is bigger than the one on J-20 due to the enormous nose cone of J-16. Therefore more raw power. Maybe also the reason why its price tag is more expensive than J-20.


J-16D is more expensive.


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## JohnWick

LKJ86 said:


> J-16D is more expensive.


You mean 4th gen is exp than 5th gen.


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## LKJ86

JohnWick said:


> You mean 4th gen is exp than 5th gen.


You can consider the price of E/A-18G.


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## JohnWick

LKJ86 said:


> You can consider the price of E/A-18G.


Its a growler with exp electronic ware fare pods which results in its high price.


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## LKJ86

JohnWick said:


> Its a growler with exp electronic ware fare pods which results in its high price.


It is the same to J-16D.


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## Brainsucker

JohnWick said:


> Its a growler with exp electronic ware fare pods which results in its high price.



J-16D is Chinese Growler.


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> It is the same to J-16D.




Any news concerning the J-16D?? mots recently we've only seen images of the J-15D.


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## gambit

Beast said:


> May the J-16 radar is bigger than the one on J-20 due to the enormous nose cone of J-16. *Therefore more raw power.* Maybe also the reason why its price tag is more expensive than J-20.


Actually...No, regarding the highlighted. You can put out as much raw power as you want no matter antenna/array aperture size.

There is an inverse relationship between antenna/array size vs *BEAMWIDTH*.

https://earth.esa.int/web/guest/mis...kKg5P/content/radar-course-3-radar-principles






Essentially, the larger the antenna/array, the smaller the beamwidth. For the image above, the radar with the larger beamwidth would see two targets as one. This is applicable to the older as well as newer ESA technology.

When I was active duty and on the F-111, one of our training penetration tactics against Soviet air defense radar nets was to fly close together and at low altitude. Often the F-111 pair would fly in a trail formation, one after the other with the wingman at a slightly lower altitude. We trained this way because we knew Soviet radars were not as sophisticated as ours. We knew their radar characteristics. If they detect us, they would not know how many incoming. For the F-111 from RAFs Upper Heyford and Lakenheath, the jets would be nuclear armed.

Raw output power is not the reason why we want larger antenna/array aperture.

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## LKJ86

IL-78

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## beijingwalker

*Many Chinese pilots capable of flying J-20, J-16, J-10 fighters*


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## Deino

*You simply don't get it and once again you start a new thread just for a video and a topic that nicely fits into the regular PLAAF thread?? 

Is this pure stubbornness? ignorance or arrogance? How often did we already talk about this; how often did you get a warning and how often did other moderators intervene to persuade NOT always to start a new thread?*


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1056912679007408129

I must admit; I need to be a bit nasty on a certain “unique” issue 

A more or less well known member at several forums from India asked me for a review copy of my “Modern Chinese Warplane” book, with the offer, it would surely be of interest in India as well and that he would publish a review – maybe even several – in return .... 

So, said, done ... in the meantime, several weeks have passed and now – after I asked him once again, what will become of his promise in return to the not quite cheap delivery to India – he answered not me, but secretly my publisher: In India, nobody wants a review on a book in which wrong maps showing India in the wrong borders were used or shown. 


Again, he gave neither me nor the publisher an explanation but now I found this - forgive me - funny scheme: 



https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fnews%2fworldviews%2fwp%2f2016%2f05%2f06%2fcartographers-beware-india-warns-of-15-million-fine-for-maps-it-doesnt-like%2f%3fnoredirect%3don%26utm_term%3d.cf21da5164f0&noredirect=on&utm_term=.4716952043cd



https://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/article/07/05/2016/Cartographers-beware-India-warns-of-$15-million-fine-for-false-maps




Although it is explicitly stated in the text that these territories are "controversial" and that the book "explicitly" shows the Chinese view of things, it seems to be irrelevant.


What a kindergarten

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## Figaro

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1056912679007408129
> 
> I must admit; I need to be a bit nasty on a certain “unique” issue
> 
> A more or less well known member at several forums from India asked me for a review copy of my “Modern Chinese Warplane” book, with the offer, it would surely be of interest in India as well and that he would publish a review – maybe even several – in return ....
> 
> So, said, done ... in the meantime, several weeks have passed and now – after I asked him once again, what will become of his promise in return to the not quite cheap delivery to India – he answered not me, but secretly my publisher: In India, nobody wants a review on a book in which wrong maps showing India in the wrong borders were used or shown.
> 
> 
> Again, he gave neither me nor the publisher an explanation but now I found this - forgive me - funny scheme:
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2fnews%2fworldviews%2fwp%2f2016%2f05%2f06%2fcartographers-beware-india-warns-of-15-million-fine-for-maps-it-doesnt-like%2f%3fnoredirect%3don%26utm_term%3d.cf21da5164f0&noredirect=on&utm_term=.4716952043cd
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.thepeninsulaqatar.com/article/07/05/2016/Cartographers-beware-India-warns-of-$15-million-fine-for-false-maps
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Although it is explicitly stated in the text that these territories are "controversial" and that the book "explicitly" shows the Chinese view of things, it seems to be irrelevant.
> 
> 
> What a kindergarten


Maybe just change your background to not include a map of China ... you could instead have more Chinese warplanes in the background or something.

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## siegecrossbow

Figaro said:


> Maybe just change your background to not include a map of China ... you could instead have more Chinese warplanes in the background or something.



That or the PRC flag.

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## lcloo

I agree better not include the map on cover page, both India and China would not like it. Scan carefully on the South West frontier and East Sea off shore on the color of the map....


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## Deino

lcloo said:


> I agree better not include the map on cover page, both India and China would not like it. Scan carefully on the South West frontier and East Sea off shore on the color of the map....



To admit, that's the publisher's concept and he won't change that ...

Anyway, probably I was too naïve, but what really annoys me is, that he promised a review and he must be aware of this strange "rule" already before he insisted several times - plus always promising - to send him the books for free in return for a review.

As such; I'm really annoyed by his blatant lie. If he would have given me a bad review due to this issue, due to the high price in India or due to other points he does not agree or the Indian side has a different perception and understanding, then fine, it would be his opinion,... but now I'm indeed - sorry to say so - really pissed off. 

Deino

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> To admit, that's the publisher's concept and he won't change that ...
> 
> Anyway, probably I was too naïve, but what really annoys me is, that he promised a review and he must be aware of this strange "rule" already before he insisted several times - plus always promising - to send him the books for free in return for a review.
> 
> As such; I'm really annoyed by his blatant lie. If he would have given me a bad review due to this issue, due to the high price in India or due to other points he does not agree or the Indian side has a different perception and understanding, then fine, it would be his opinion,... but now I'm indeed - sorry to say so - really pissed off.
> 
> Deino



But you still can give him (the publisher) your opinion about that. Like telling him that both Chinese and Indian hate the map picture. He doesn't want lose potential buyers just because the cover is hated by them, is he?


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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> But you still can give him (the publisher) your opinion about that. Like telling him that both Chinese and Indian hate the map picture. He doesn't want lose potential buyers just because the cover is hated by them, is he?



Agreed and that's what we already do. However the general concept for all Harpia books is a map + a cover aircraft.

Concerning to decide on the correct map its anyway a dance on the top rope, since Indians want to have all disputed territories marked as Indian without any discussion, Chinese would like to have the same and especially including Taiwan. My point however is to show - even if I might offend some certain groups on both sides - the political status quo, reality as it is and not as one of both sides would like to and that is simply "disputed" in certain areas and Taiwan is de facto not yet under control of the PRC, consequently it makes no sense to include in an orbat description.


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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Agreed and that's what we already do. However the general concept for all Harpia books is a map + a cover aircraft.
> 
> Concerning to decide on the correct map its anyway a dance on the top rope, since Indians want to have all disputed territories marked as Indian without any discussion, Chinese would like to have the same and especially including Taiwan. My point however is to show - even if I might offend some certain groups on both sides - the political status quo, reality as it is and not as one of both sides would like to and that is simply "disputed" in certain areas and Taiwan is de facto not yet under control of the PRC, consequently it makes no sense to include in an orbat description.



Well, actually you can draw a map without any border, or color that identify Chinese territory. Just a google map model or a Globe that focus on the area of China. Let's the readers decide the border themselves, according to their own political belief.

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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> Well, actually you can draw a map without any border, or color that identify Chinese territory. Just a google map model or a Globe that focus on the area of China. Let's the readers decide the border themselves, according to their own political belief.



Yes, but I think, my publisher like to provoke a bit ...


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> Yes, but I think, my publisher like to provoke a bit ...


Why don't you color in the dispute areas with another color ... let's say orange. Taiwan and the disputed territories with India could be orange


----------



## LKJ86

J-8

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## LKJ86



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## Beast

Currently the best pilot of PLAAF. Fly a vintage Su-27SK/J-11A. Awarded golden helmet 3 times. His victory feat including a record 42 : 0 over an experience pilot enemy during simulated exercise. He claimed EW is highly critical in modern warfare. It can totally blind an enemy sensor ,making them totally unaware of your presense and his position while he shot it down without even his foe realizing it.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1071810853723344902

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

A new video from PLAAF's weibo:
https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4316530924077641

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## Deino

Quite interesting report if true posted at the SDF:



> A blogger who supposedly lives beside SAC (and whom Huitong follows) claims that a new aircraft made its maiden flight, and that it supposedly uses thrust vectoring engines.
> 
> _Sound like: "This is another fighter to fly with TVC after the other example"_
> 
> https://www.weibo.com/2314989297/H7rip61YR





>





If the "other" fighter mentioned refers to the J-10B-TVC, then this could either be the known J-20 or a Flanker derivative - given that this poster is indeed related to SAC?

What do you think?
Deino


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## lcloo

Wait for the cartoon drawing, we will know what aircraft it is by then.

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## LKJ86

In "Golden Helmet" competition 2018, J-16 is the winner of 3.5-generation fighter group, and J-11B is the winner of 3-generation fighter group.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 527775
> 
> 
> In "Golden Helmet" competition 2018, J-16 is the winner of 3.5-generation fighter group, and J-11B is the winner of 3-generation fighter group.



So hopefully some new markings that can be introduced?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 527775
> 
> 
> In "Golden Helmet" competition 2018, J-16 is the winner of 3.5-generation fighter group, and J-11B is the winner of 3-generation fighter group.


3-generation fighter group: J-10A, Su-27/J-11, Su-30MKK, J-11B
3.5-generation fighter group: J-10B, J-10C, J-16

The introduction of competition rules of "Golden Helmet" and "Skyhawk cup":























https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/KUdoe7DM3bv-NbKLUfhQSQ

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> A new video from PLAAF's weibo:
> https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4316530924077641


This "new" clip was indeed released by the PLAAF to mark the 81st anniversary of the Nanjing Massacre on 13 December 1937.

Very solemn way! Only those who grasp that event may appreciate this release!

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## LKJ86

Video from the weibo of MoD:
https://m.weibo.cn/5611549371/4323298310963153

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## cirr

What will 611 bring us in 2019??? 
















https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/C_JbIG7SBFy5OzcwDgqYag

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## Deino

cirr said:


> What will 611 bring us in 2019???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/C_JbIG7SBFy5OzcwDgqYag


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## cirr

Detailed designs of multi-type aircrafts successfully concluded. 

Any guesses what they might be?

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## LKJ86

An video of J-20, J-16, and J-10C from PLAAF's weibo on January 1, 2019:
https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4323739472183180

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> An video of J-20, J-16, and J-10C from PLAAF's weibo on January 1, 2019:
> https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4323739472183180

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## LKJ86

J-8

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## Deino

Again a new Air Brigade confirmed. This time the former 52nd AR, 18th Fighter Division based at Wuhan/Shanpo flying J-7II was reestablished as the 52nd Air Brigade now flying J-7G.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/2859620437/4325458684175023

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Again a new Air Brigade confirmed. This time the former 52nd AR, 18th Fighter Division based at Wuhan/Shanpo flying J-7II was reestablished as the 52nd Air Brigade now flying J-7G.
> 
> View attachment 530714



Why are they reestablished a brigade with old jet fighter type? What happen to J-10, J-11, or other newer Jet Fighter?

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## ozranger

Brainsucker said:


> Why are they reestablished a brigade with old jet fighter type? What happen to J-10, J-11, or other newer Jet Fighter?



I think that's because they are experiencing rapid expansion and want to maximize the number of pilots as quickly as possible. So they choose to make pilots out number qualified planes in order to have a large reserve which can quickly transition to battle ready in large amount once the planes are available.

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## Nasr

Yes I have read about some western commentary that sites the lower in comparison flying hours of pilots for the PLAAF. Perhaps it is due to a higher rate of manufacturing, outstripping the rate of pilots being trained and qualified. It would make more sense that if the pilot training flight hours increased (based on established curriculum for air combat tactics), then it would be logical to assume that PLAAF pilots would have higher efficiency in fighting. Of course the issue here isn't quality, rather quantity without sacrificing quality. That is what PLAAF would be aiming for. I sure do hope that one day we can witness large scale air warfare exercizes held with China, Russia, Pakistan and the Central Asian States. Where combined air forces of all participating countries, form tactics to achieve greater proficiency and work to fight as coordinated units.


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## Beast

Ghazwa1 said:


> Yes I have read about some western commentary that sites the lower in comparison flying hours of pilots for the PLAAF. Perhaps it is due to a higher rate of manufacturing, outstripping the rate of pilots being trained and qualified. It would make more sense that if the pilot training flight hours increased (based on established curriculum for air combat tactics), then it would be logical to assume that PLAAF pilots would have higher efficiency in fighting. Of course the issue here isn't quality, rather quantity without sacrificing quality. That is what PLAAF would be aiming for. I sure do hope that one day we can witness large scale air warfare exercizes held with China, Russia, Pakistan and the Central Asian States. Where combined air forces of all participating countries, form tactics to achieve greater proficiency and work to fight as coordinated units.


The western are using statistic 10years ago. Current PLAAF pilot flying times is on par , if not surplass western. Imagine a Su-27SK need to decommission few years ago as the airframe is exhausted. While other countries like some former Soviet states still flying the old su-27SK. Even quite new JH-7A also decommission due high usage of hours. Not to mention the large amount of JL-9 and JL-10 advance trainer enter service for the high usage demand.

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## Figaro

Ghazwa1 said:


> read about some western commentary


This phrase says it all . How many times have Western "analysts" every gotten the PLA right?

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## Nasr

Deino said:


> Quite interesting report if true posted at the SDF:
> 
> 
> 
> If the "other" fighter mentioned refers to the J-10B-TVC, then this could either be the known J-20 or a Flanker derivative - given that this poster is indeed related to SAC?
> 
> What do you think?
> Deino



I would say that it could be an improved and upgraded variant of the J-11s? Is a possibility, unless of course the WS-15s are ready and the J-20 now has TVC. But wouldn't that be a big news? Or is it to be the J-31s which would have the new TVNs like the J-10B has.


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1083062352898113536




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=2224407534545833

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## bahadur999

Any details regarding the Airforce Bases reorganization? I know about Shanghai Base for example that consist several brigades but it seems ETC should have more Bases otherwise some brigades will be independent. More specifically Air Divisions which are yet to be reorganized.


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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> Any details regarding the Airforce Bases reorganization? I know about Shanghai Base for example that consist several brigades but it seems ETC should have more Bases otherwise some brigades will be independent. More specifically Air Divisions which are yet to be reorganized.



Yes ... everything explained here:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1056912679007408129

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> Yes ... everything explained here:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1056912679007408129



I'm not against some advertisement. But should the questions in this forum lead into a promotion of a book? Should the only place that people can get an answer is by buying a book? Shouldn't a forum is a place to share knowledge and information? I don't mind people advertise their book here, as long as it's in the context. Like Deino book. But it shouldn't limit the function of our forum as a sharing of information that has become the reason why people come here.

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## bahadur999

Brainsucker said:


> I'm not against some advertisement. But should the questions in this forum lead into a promotion of a book? Should the only place that people can get an answer is by buying a book? Shouldn't a forum is a place to share knowledge and information? I don't mind people advertise their book here, as long as it's in the context. Like Deino book. But it shouldn't limit the function of our forum as a sharing of information that has become the reason why people come here.


That is also true. I have read Deino's book too and he is amazing but he must not forget he got much of its data thank to this forum...

And for the question itself, i am more curious about the bases of the CTC. Is there a Wuhan Base and Beijing Base? or is the reorganization have yet to happen there? Most of CTC airbases belong to the Academies.


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## Deino

Brainsucker said:


> I'm not against some advertisement. But should the questions in this forum lead into a promotion of a book? Should the only place that people can get an answer is by buying a book? Shouldn't a forum is a place to share knowledge and information? I don't mind people advertise their book here, as long as it's in the context. Like Deino book. But it shouldn't limit the function of our forum as a sharing of information that has become the reason why people come here.



You are surely correct and I must apologize, however my excuse is simply that I only had a few minutes left before I had to go back to my pupils and the one thing that came into my mind instead of a long explanation - since it is only explainable in a longer way - was to post this link.

If you and other feel annoyed by this kind of posts I will refrain from doing so in the future.

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## Brainsucker

Deino said:


> You are surely correct and I must apologize, however my excuse is simply that I only had a few minutes left before I had to go back to my pupils and the one thing that came into my mind instead of a long explanation - since it is only explainable in a longer way - was to post this link.
> 
> If you and other feel annoyed by this kind of posts I will refrain from doing so in the future.



I'm not annoyed. I just don't want to active in a forum, where all discussion will only going into a reference that somebody must buy in order to get an answer for their question.

Like, I have a question about the 055A. Then the answer will be "Oh, you want to know, then buy Rick Joe book. it's only 25 USD. Or Oh, you don't know yet, just read Jeff Head article. You need only to subscript for only 50 USD. Etc.

I welcome your book advertisement in here; because it still in the same context of the topic of this forum. And of course, buying and reading your book is also give a large benefit for Chinese fanboys like us. I also welcome you to create a thread about your book. To advertise it, to discuss it, Fan Gathering, anything about it; because it will enrich the materials that we can discuss in here. But still, a forum is a place for sharing information, and to learn about what we like; and discuss it, if we have the expertise to share (not trolling). Don't erase these three purpose from this forum.

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## JSCh

*China should learn from Su-57: experts*
Source:Global Times Published: 2019/1/24 0:53:40




A Russian Air Force Sukhoi Su-57 jet flies over Red Square during the Victory Day military parade in Moscow, Russia, on May 9, 2018. Photo: AP

Although many Chinese military observers are pessimistic over Russia's latest fighter jet Su-57's capability, a senior Chinese warplane designer believes the Su-57 has a very unique concept, and China should learn from it despite the country already operating the J-20 fighter.

The Su-57, Russia's fifth-generation fighter jet comparable to China's J-20 and the US' F-22, is usually considered not a true fifth-generation jet because of its "below-standard" stealth capability, according to media reports. This makes it at a significant disadvantage against Chinese and US counterparts, some military observers said.

China has a long tradition of purchasing Russian warplanes, recently highlighted by an Su-35 deal. But as the country developed its own fifth- generation fighter jet, it does not need to buy or even learn from the "below-standard" Su-57.

However, Wang Yongqing, chief designer of the Shenyang Aircraft Design Institute (SADI) under the State-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), said the Su-57's overall capability is not bad at all.

The SADI has developed a variety of China's fighter jets, including the J-11, J-15 and J-16. It is currently developing the FC-31 stealth fighter, which is made-for-export but was recently reported that it could become China's next-generation aircraft carrier-based warplane.

Having an innovative aerodynamic design and capable of thrust vectoring control, the Su-57 attaches strong importance to supersonic cruise capability and super-maneuverability, and stealth is intentionally a second priority, Wang wrote in February in the Aerospace Knowledge magazine.

The US' concept of next-generation aerial battle stresses beyond visual range attacks, but missiles capable of delivering such attacks have to travel for a while, a time window far enough for the Su-57 to make super-maneuvers and evade them, Wang said, noting that the Russian fighter is also equipped with special radars designed to detect the precise location of incoming missiles.

With long-range missiles out of the question, the final showdown will eventually take place at close range, where stealth loses its meaning and super-maneuverability thrives, Wang said. 

Another unique design is the world's first side-facing radars in addition to the front-facing ones, Wang said. Combined with other radars and infrared sensors, the Su-57 is expected to find enemy stealth aircraft as early as possible.

Russia might be limited by its industrial capability and might not be able to rival the US aircraft in specific or overall performance, but its concept is very unique, Wang said.

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## bahadur999

Brainsucker said:


> I'm not annoyed. I just don't want to active in a forum, where all discussion will only going into a reference that somebody must buy in order to get an answer for their question.
> 
> Like, I have a question about the 055A. Then the answer will be "Oh, you want to know, then buy Rick Joe book. it's only 25 USD. Or Oh, you don't know yet, just read Jeff Head article. You need only to subscript for only 50 USD. Etc.
> 
> I welcome your book advertisement in here; because it still in the same context of the topic of this forum. And of course, buying and reading your book is also give a large benefit for Chinese fanboys like us. I also welcome you to create a thread about your book. To advertise it, to discuss it, Fan Gathering, anything about it; because it will enrich the materials that we can discuss in here. But still, a forum is a place for sharing information, and to learn about what we like; and discuss it, if we have the expertise to share (not trolling). Don't erase these three purpose from this forum.


Exactly. If he (or anybody else) don't want to reply, then it is okay too.


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## Akasa

JSCh said:


> the Su-57 attaches strong importance to supersonic cruise capability and super-maneuverability, and stealth is intentionally a second priority



Major mistake, as demonstrated by the complete dominance of 5th-generation platforms over legacy ones during China's own "Red Sword" exercises, which was almost exclusively due to the J-20's VLO characteristics.



JSCh said:


> Another unique design is the world's first side-facing radars in addition to the front-facing ones



As per the manufacturer of the KLJ-7A radar (NRIET), the J-20 and J-16 both have side-facing arrays.



JSCh said:


> Russia might be limited by its industrial capability and might not be able to rival the US aircraft in specific or overall performance, but its concept is very unique, Wang said.



Uniqueness isn't nearly as important as being able to fulfill an air force's mission requirements. It will take time to realize how the Su-57 fits into the RuAF's doctrine.

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## LKJ86

"Golden Helmet"

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## bahadur999

A little old but still (from Andy's blog).


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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> A little old but still (from Andy's blog).
> View attachment 535123




Pardon, but what do we see?


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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> Pardon, but what do we see?



Oh, i am sorry. Well, Andy's blog used to monitor airfields with possible UGFs. Dude lives in China.
He said Dongbeitun airfield (in Dongbei Village at the northeast, NTC) is an abandoned airfield that is inactive for more than a decade now. Suitable for PLARF's use though with 15m gates to hide missile trucks. Trucks are still going to/from there which makes it still active in that manner.

He had 2 more images:

Neixiang AFB (CTC) is a new airfield, suitable for an air brigade in the near future.





Fengning AFB (CTC) is an inactive base north of Beijing but still has a UGF (probably inactive as well)





Last one was an Army Aviation detachment's airbase at the southside of Qinghai Lake - Gonghe/Qukenacun AB. Maybe of the 76th GA. He suspected a UGF in the north but it is unlikely since UGFs for Army are useless. Nobody cares about some choppers

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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> Oh, i am sorry. Well, Andy's blog used to monitor airfields with possible UGFs. Dude lives in China.
> He said Dongbeitun airfield (in Dongbei Village at the northeast, NTC) is an abandoned airfield that is inactive for more than a decade now. Suitable for PLARF's use though with 15m gates to hide missile trucks. Trucks are still going to/from there which makes it still active in that manner.
> 
> He had 2 more images:
> 
> Neixiang AFB (CTC) is a new airfield, suitable for an air brigade in the near future.
> View attachment 535133
> 
> 
> Fengning AFB (CTC) is an inactive base north of Beijing but still has a UGF (probably inactive as well)
> View attachment 535134
> 
> 
> Last one was an Army Aviation detachment's airbase at the southside of Qinghai Lake - Gonghe/Qukenacun AB. Maybe of the 76th GA. He suspected a UGF in the north but it is unlikely since UGFs for Army are useless. Nobody cares about some choppers




Thanks a lot... but who is Andy or his blog?


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## Brainsucker

bahadur999 said:


> Oh, i am sorry. Well, Andy's blog used to monitor airfields with possible UGFs. Dude lives in China.
> He said Dongbeitun airfield (in Dongbei Village at the northeast, NTC) is an abandoned airfield that is inactive for more than a decade now. Suitable for PLARF's use though with 15m gates to hide missile trucks. Trucks are still going to/from there which makes it still active in that manner.
> 
> He had 2 more images:
> 
> Neixiang AFB (CTC) is a new airfield, suitable for an air brigade in the near future.
> View attachment 535133
> 
> 
> Fengning AFB (CTC) is an inactive base north of Beijing but still has a UGF (probably inactive as well)
> View attachment 535134
> 
> 
> Last one was an Army Aviation detachment's airbase at the southside of Qinghai Lake - Gonghe/Qukenacun AB. Maybe of the 76th GA. He suspected a UGF in the north but it is unlikely since UGFs for Army are useless. Nobody cares about some choppers



Oh this information is actually dangerous indeed. Although I like Chinese Military news. But this is more than about J-10 and J-20. It's more about tactic and secret. A hidden card that shouldn't be revealed in public.

But..., after thinking about it more. It's actually good news for PLA. Without this kind of leak; they will think that their method is perfect. hence won't try harder and be more creatively to erase their track. With this Andy Block, at least they have second opinion that at least, if Andy is capable to reveal their track, then CIA is able too. Thus, they have to become better in hiding their tail.

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## bahadur999

Anry's blog is inactive for a year now (maybe more). He used to monitor airfields around the world with UGFs. His blog was an amateur blog in the pashto language based on google earth and without too much explantions. That's why it is not a secret and just as normal as other observers (such as Deino) do. Anyway...his blog is dead and link doesn't work so these are just some stuff i managed to collect for fun.
I found two more images in relation to China:











Deino, do you know anything about those airfields? (all the 6 i have mentioned)


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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1089971398410465285


bahadur999 said:


> ...
> Deino, do you know anything about those airfields? (all the 6 i have mentioned)




Unfortunately not ... but I will take a look, when I find time. Thanks.


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1089971398410465285.



Pilot conversion training, new pilot and instructor in JJ7, new pilot solo flight in J7, new pilots converted to J10A qualification. But why not using J10S for conversion training? Not sufficient number of J10S in service?

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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1089971398410465285
> 
> 
> 
> Unfortunately not ... but I will take a look, when I find time. Thanks.


Thank you. Hopefully i will find more images and upload here in order to enrich the discussion and by that contribute to your next edition of your book whom i am dying to read!

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## LKJ86

An video from AVIC's weibo:
https://m.weibo.cn/3061210763/4337369324370314

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## LKJ86



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## bahadur999

U/I PLAAF airfield (WTC).

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## Deino

Any geo-locations?


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## LKJ86



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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> Any geo-locations?


42,54,41.6N 
90,14,58.4E

Shanshan town, Xinjiang

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## bahadur999

A yet-to-be-identified PLAAF/NTC airfield ha been exposed!!!
Baotou Airfield, Inner Mongolia (60km west of Baotou City)
It seems to be operating J-7/JJ-7.


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## LKJ86

The video of PLAAF:
https://m.weibo.cn/6858255533/4340014860823481

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## lcloo

PLA Air Force rescue helicopter conducts rescue exercise in Northern Theater. 

Air force personnel assigned to a brigade of the air force under the PLA Northern Theater Command simulate rescue and recovery operations while hanging underneath a rescue helicopter during a training exercise in high altitude and frigid area on March 3, 2019. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Yang Pan)

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## bahadur999

lcloo said:


> PLA Air Force rescue helicopter conducts rescue exercise in Northern Theater.
> 
> Air force personnel assigned to a brigade of the air force under the PLA Northern Theater Command simulate rescue and recovery operations while hanging underneath a rescue helicopter during a training exercise in high altitude and frigid area on March 3, 2019. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Yang Pan)
> View attachment 544195
> View attachment 544196
> View attachment 544197


Amazing! We barely see PLAAF's choppers...


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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> An video from AVIC's weibo:
> https://m.weibo.cn/3061210763/4337369324370314


Interesting clip, add in the flash AVIC-version to this song genre: “Me & Homeland"... The Peter Chen version in Kuanzhai Alley in Chengdu is the best, followed by the one of Mr. Zhang & son in the Shenzhen North Railway Station, then the one in the Shaoguan City, Guangdong involved the Yao people!



LKJ86 said:


> The video of PLAAF:
> https://m.weibo.cn/6858255533/4340014860823481


This clip is interesting as well! Thanks.


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## Deino

Not really breaking news, but at least for me it is anyway new:

PLAvisitig German LW Tornados: 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1105368327470436353

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## bahadur999

This company named Shaanxi Aircraft Corp is now part of XAIC, right?
So do all those Y-8/9 planes developed by the 603rd RI?


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## samsara

Deino said:


> Not really breaking news, but at least for me it is anyway new:
> 
> PLAvisitig German LW Tornados:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1105368327470436353


And it was 1980! Almost four decades ago.

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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3001301/two-dead-after-chinese-navy-plane-crashes
> 
> Seems like a JH-7 crashed in Hainan.



Indeed, but it was a PLA Naval Aviation JH-7. May the pilots R.I.P.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1105472036829196288


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## samsara

Is there any dedicated thread for the JF-17 Thunder in this "Chinese Defence" column? And if not, where to post info about this type of aircraft? Thanks

I search this column the several references or mentioning of JF-17 are spread over many threads. Confusing.


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## lcloo

samsara said:


> Is there any dedicated thread for the JF-17 Thunder in this "Chinese Defence" column? And if not, where to post info about this type of aircraft? Thanks
> 
> I search this column the several references or mentioning of JF-17 are spread over many threads. Confusing.


The Chinese Weapon Export is the most relevant to JF-17. Or you can open a new thread like Chinese Military Aircraft Export, to cover JF-17, FTC-2000G, K-8 etc.


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## samsara

lcloo said:


> The Chinese Weapon Export is the most relevant to JF-17. Or you can open a new thread like Chinese Military Aircraft Export, to cover JF-17, FTC-2000G, K-8 etc.


Thanks, but unfortunately the nature of the article does not justify opening a new thread as such...

Anyhow, since that article is very good and comes from an expert source, I'll just post a short piece with link for anyone interested to read the web version.

*Expert: Who shot down India's MiG-21 in India-Pakistan air battle? *(2019-03-12)

*The expert who becomes the source of this article is Professor Jin Yinan from the National Defense University (NDU) of the PLA.*

_The original article is published on http://mil.cnr.cn/ and it is translated from Chinese into English by the China Military Online._

http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/2019-03/12/content_9448059.htm

I have read so many conflicting news upon the MIG-21 shot-down back then, which aircraft from the PAF that shot down the IAF MIG-21, or whether it's an AAM or SAM that did the task.

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## lcloo

@Deino, Any idea on IL-76 #B-4030, B-4032 ....to B-4035 in PLAAF, what are their new serial numbers? 20 X 4X, 21X4 X ...?


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## Avicenna

samsara said:


> Thanks, but unfortunately the nature of the article does not justify opening a new thread as such...
> 
> Anyhow, since that article is very good and comes from an expert source, I'll just post a short piece with link for anyone interested to read the web version.
> 
> *Expert: Who shot down India's MiG-21 in India-Pakistan air battle? *(2019-03-12)
> 
> *The expert who becomes the source of this article is Professor Jin Yinan from the National Defense University (NDU) of the PLA.*
> 
> _The original article is published on http://mil.cnr.cn/ and it is translated from Chinese into English by the China Military Online._
> 
> http://english.chinamil.com.cn/view/2019-03/12/content_9448059.htm
> 
> I have read so many conflicting news upon the MIG-21 shot-down back then, which aircraft from the PAF that shot down the IAF MIG-21, or whether it's an AAM or SAM that did the task.



The article lost credibility once it stated PAF has less than 20 F-16 in service.

"First, the sales of F-16 fighters had been cut off by the US, so Pakistan now has only less than 20 such aircraft left, not to mention how many of which could still perform a flight mission."


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## JSCh

*China’s most powerful air-to-air missile equipped on warplanes*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/3/26 21:03:40




A Chinese J-11B fighter jet is photographed carrying a new type of air-to-air missile. Photo: China Central Television

The J-11B fighter jet has become the latest user of China's self-developed world-class air-to-air missile that was feared by senior US military officers, revealed China's national broadcaster on Monday.

A photo appeared on a China Central Television (CCTV) program on Monday shows a J-11B under the People's Liberation Army Air Force carrying a large missile under its wing.

The J-20 stealth fighter jet carried the same type of missile and made public display at the Airshow China 2018 in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province, in November 2018, CCTV reported.

This is the first time a J-11B is spotted carrying this type of missile, the report said.

"Judging from the shape and aerodynamic design plus the J-20 reference, the missile is very likely to be the PL-15 air-to-air missile," Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military analyst, told the Global Times on Tuesday.

Wei compared the PL-15 with the US' latest AIM-120 missile, as both have very long effective range that would allow the launch platform to become an airborne sniper, enabling an aircraft to hunt hostile fighters, early warning aircraft and aerial tankers from beyond visual range.



A J-11B fighter jet attached to an aviation brigade of the air force with the PLA Northern Theater Command flies at low altitude through valleys during a flight training exercise on January 8, 2019. Photo: eng.chinamil.com.cn

US media outlet the National Interest said the PL-15's effective range could be much higher than the AIM-120's 180 kilometers, but that could be an exaggeration, according to Wei.

The PL-15 is also equipped with an active electronically scanned array radar, which makes evasion very difficult, Bloomberg reported.

Then-US Air Force general Herbert Carlisle voiced serious concern about the PL-15 missile when it was first made public in 2015, as he called on the US Congress to fund a response, the Bloomberg report said.

Wei said the technology of the PL-15 has matured, so it can now be put on a variety of platforms, including the J-11B.

By equipping the missile, the J-11B's aerial combat capability can be greatly boosted, the CCTV report said.

The J-11B is less advanced than other Chinese fighters like the J-20, and some military observers said the J-11B's radar could be outdated in a way that it cannot see far enough what the PL-15 can hit at maximum range.

But that would not be a problem if the fighter is supported by other warplanes like an early warning aircraft, which can send target data to the J-11B, Wei said. 

Dubbed by Chinese military observers as the "aerial trident," the J-20, J-16 and J-10C fighter jets, conducted air defense penetration drills in June 2018, with all of them reportedly carrying the PL-15 missiles. Now the J-11B could join the PL-15 club.

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## lcloo

Yellow painted numbers on blue grey fuselage and red painted numbers on white fuselage, isn't this an interesting combination? Old near retirement J7(B?) gathered to form a (training ?) brigade/regiment before they are finally pay-off.

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Yellow painted numbers on blue grey fuselage and red painted numbers on white fuselage, isn't this an interesting combination? Old near retirement J7(B?) gathered to form a (training ?) brigade/regiment before they are finally pay-off.
> 
> View attachment 549928
> View attachment 549929




Must be older images due to the 41x4x serials, which correspond to the former 33rd Division's 99th AR, a unit that is now the 99th Air Brigade:







By the way, there is an interesting post over there at the SDF by:



siegecrossbow said:


> “Comrades! Hopefully you are excited about your new replacement aircraft --- second hand J-8IIs!"
> 
> https://military.china.com/jctp/tuku/11172988/20190326/35514060.html#page=1
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> Why the sad face???



老将换老将 西部战区某旅从歼7成功改飞歼8 translated as "Veteran veteran, a brigade in the *Western Theater*, successfully changed from 歼7 to 歼8" which could fit to either the 97th, 99th, 18th, 110th or 112th Brigades.

Is there any additional info on a location given in that video?


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Must be older images due to the 41x4x serials, which correspond to the former 33rd Division's 99th AR, a unit that is now the 99th Air Brigade:
> 
> View attachment 550016
> 
> 
> 
> By the way, there is an interesting post over there at the SDF by:
> 
> 
> 
> 老将换老将 西部战区某旅从歼7成功改飞歼8 translated as "Veteran veteran, a brigade in the *Western Theater*, successfully changed from 歼7 to 歼8" which could fit to either the 97th, 99th, 18th, 110th or 112th Brigades.
> 
> Is there any additional info on a location given in that video?


No detail info on location other than Western Theater, flat land and scattering mountains in far away background may indicate somewhere in North West China.


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## Deino

lcloo said:


> No detail info on location other than Western Theater, flat land and scattering mountains in far away background may indicate somewhere in North West China.




Hmm??? In the extreme far-North west there care no J-7 units, the westernmost ones are assigned to the 108th Brigade at Changji or the 112th Brigade at Malan all subordinated to Ürümqi Base.


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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> Hmm??? In the extreme far-North west there care no J-7 units, the westernmost ones are assigned to the 108th Brigade at Changji or the 112th Brigade at Malan all subordinated to Ürümqi Base.



Changji is 109th AB**

What is 97th AB and 99th AB? Are these the ones in Shanshan and Golmud? or Aksu and Kashgar?


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## Deino

Both the 97th and 99th Brigades as subordinated to Lanzhou Base with the 97th at Dazu and the 99th at Chongqing.


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## lcloo

Deino said:


> Hmm??? In the extreme far-North west there care no J-7 units, the westernmost ones are assigned to the 108th Brigade at Changji or the 112th Brigade at Malan all subordinated to Ürümqi Base.


 I was not referring to extreme NW China which is mountainous, , North of Urumqi, Dzungarian Basin is located in North West China and is mostly flat land. Any way, I cannot confirm the location due to lack of info on the video that you mentioned, just that the geography shows large flat land.

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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> Both the 97th and 99th Brigades as subordinated to Lanzhou Base with the 97th at Dazu and the 99th at Chongqing.


According to IISS, Lanzhou has the 18th AB and Chonqing has the 98th AB


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## lcloo

Further checking map of China's military theatre, I found that the Western theatre covers central China as well. So this makes locating the base by just referring the geographical feature even more difficult. So I really don't know where it is.

*Edit：Deino, you owe me this one. 99 Air brigade is a training brigade located in Zunyi city, Guizhou province, North of Yunan province, according to public information available on Baidu.*

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## bahadur999

lcloo said:


> Further checking map of China's military theatre, I found that the Western theatre covers central China as well. So this makes locating the base by just referring the geographical feature even more difficult. So I really don't know where it is.
> 
> *Edit：Deino, you owe me this one. 99 Air brigade is a training brigade located in Zunyi city, Guizhou province, North of Yunan province, according to public information available on Baidu.*


Are you sure? According to several sources Zunyi hosts a regiment of Y-8s of the 20th Special Division.


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## lcloo

bahadur999 said:


> Are you sure? According to several sources Zunyi hosts a regiment of Y-8s of the 20th Special Division.



另外，2师的4团外调后，有9师装备蔡国庆的某团补齐，而9师形成的窟窿有原30师90团南下补齐，11师的33团，外调后，形成窟窿有，公主岭的强五训练团补齐，原兰空训练团，改为17团，补上6师的窟窿，原毕克齐的7师20团，改归15师44团，补齐15师的窟窿，北空训练基地的一个团，则改为20团，补上窟窿，另一个归石家庄飞院，*原沈空的另一个训练团，南下遵义变成99团，补上33师的窟窿*，原来的广空，成空，训练团，早在上次裁军时变成53-132团，补上了18和44师的窟窿，

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## bahadur999

lcloo said:


> 另外，2师的4团外调后，有9师装备蔡国庆的某团补齐，而9师形成的窟窿有原30师90团南下补齐，11师的33团，外调后，形成窟窿有，公主岭的强五训练团补齐，原兰空训练团，改为17团，补上6师的窟窿，原毕克齐的7师20团，改归15师44团，补齐15师的窟窿，北空训练基地的一个团，则改为20团，补上窟窿，另一个归石家庄飞院，*原沈空的另一个训练团，南下遵义变成99团，补上33师的窟窿*，原来的广空，成空，训练团，早在上次裁军时变成53-132团，补上了18和44师的窟窿，
> View attachment 550467


Yeah and check north of that - those are Y-8 of the 59th AR. 
I thought the 99th AB is located at Baiyishi together with the 98 AB.
*confused*


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## samsara

bahadur999 said:


> Yeah and check north of that - those are Y-8 of the 59th AR.
> I thought the 99th AB is located at Baiyishi together with the 98 AB.
> *confused*


@bahadur999
It's obvious for me that you are trying to track the WHEREABOUT or LOCATION of every single military airfield or airbase in China, for whatever purpose.

Instead of filling every thread with question about such LOCATION , may you just create a new special thread to pool all your questions on locations / coordinates ??? I think you created a thread OrBat for that purpose But if you think it is not adequate, then you may create another one .. But please STOP questioning the location randomly in every thread. It is not my interest to track the PLA airfield/AB locations moreover their coordinates!

I wish ALL the Chinese members here will stop entertaining these kinds of questions.

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## bahadur999

samsara said:


> @bahadur999
> It's obvious for me that you are trying to track the WHEREABOUT or LOCATION of every single military airfield or airbase in China, for whatever purpose.
> 
> Instead of filling every thread with question about such LOCATION , may you just create a new special thread to pool all your questions on locations / coordinates ??? I think you created a thread OrBat for that purpose But if you think it is not adequate, then you may create another one .. But please STOP questioning the location randomly in every thread. It is not my interest to track the PLA airfield/AB locations moreover their coordinates!
> 
> I wish ALL the Chinese members here will stop entertaining these kinds of questions.


Dude, you are super exaggerating...
It's not like i went off-topic - It is still a AF thread, isn't it? Many people ask these kind questions here and i havn't seen any of them getting raged. And no, it is not every thread. It is legitimate to ask questions and not be bullied! Otherwise, we will keep these forums 'empty' by just upload pictures without giving even a glimpse of info to them...
If you don't want to answer user's questions...then don't. No one forces you to...

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## samsara

bahadur999 said:


> Dude, you are super exaggerating...
> It's not like i went off-topic - It is still a AF thread, isn't it? Many people ask these kind questions here and i havn't seen any of them getting raged. And no, it is not every thread. It is legitimate to ask questions and not be bullied! Otherwise, we will keep these forums 'empty' by just upload pictures without giving even a glimpse of info to them...
> If you don't want to answer user's questions...then don't. No one forces you to...


Do you realize your location & coordinate things flag the threads and I don't want to open such threads just because of such questions about location/coordinates/which brigade etc... that's why I said that you should create a new dedicated thread on the location/coordinate/brigade belonging thread...

It's not about whether I or any one else will Answer / Ignore such Location/coordinate/Brigade or not ... It is about FLAGGING the threads unnecessarily!

Needless to say it's better to let the corresponding threads be quiet than fill them with the unrelated things!

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## LKJ86

Welcome home, our heroes!!!

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## bahadur999

In PLAAF, are the airbases in charge of the force building and organization while the brigades in charge of the operations? or the airbase does both?


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## LKJ86



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## BHarwana

@Deino which plane is the one with strange wings in front?

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## Deino

BHarwana said:


> @Deino which plane is the one with strange wings in front?
> 
> View attachment 553146




The well known Tu-204C acting as the J-20 avionics system flying lab.


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## BHarwana

Deino said:


> The well known Tu-204C acting as the J-20 avionics system flying lab.


what are those front wings canards?

KJ-200 KJ-500 Y-8EW doing test flights in December 2018 before delivery.


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## Deino

BHarwana said:


> what are those front wings canards?

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122783308570611712

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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1122783308570611712


I am still fascinated that these Harbin Base units still use aircrafts that should fit CTC units more. On the other hand, though, 63rd located in a relatively peaceful area so Beijing can afford having old equipment over there.


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## LKJ86

J-8

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## lcloo

HYJ7 (轰运教7）, modified from Y7 transport, used for training of H6/H6K bomber air crew.

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## bahadur999

lcloo said:


> HYJ7 (轰运教7）, modified from Y7 transport, used for training of H6/H6K bomber air crew.
> 
> View attachment 565288
> View attachment 565289
> View attachment 565290
> View attachment 565291
> View attachment 565292
> View attachment 565293


Thank you!
They are part of the 5th Training Brigade.


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## bahadur999

*China may consider more Su-35 fighters after Russian new offer: report*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/6/30 16:38:21




Two Su-35 fighter jets and a H-6K bomber fly in formation on May 11, 2018. The People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force conducted patrol training over China's island of Taiwan. Su-35 fighter jets flew over the Bashi Channel in formation with the H-6Ks for the first time, which marks a new breakthrough in island patrol patterns, said Shen Jinke, spokesperson for the PLA Air Force. Photo: Xinhua

China might purchase more Su-35 fighter jets, Chinese media and military analysts said, after Russia reportedly offered an additional batch of the warplanes to China.

Although the Chinese Air Force has developed rapidly in recent years, many outdated fighter jets are still in service, so bringing in Su-35 fighter jets to replace them will do no harm to China, Weihutang, a military column affiliated with China Central Television, reported on Saturday.

The Weihutang report came after TASS Russian News Agency reported on Thursday that the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation has offered to sell another batch of Su-35 fighter jets to China.

However, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defense expert, told the Global Times on Sunday that while China could indeed buy more Su-35s, they are not meant to replace older Chinese jets because the Russian aircraft is too expensive and China has too many old jets. The replacement will most likely be done by domestically made warplanes, he said.

Having already bought a batch of Su-35s previously, China does not need more to learn from it technically, Fu noted.

But if China indeed buys more, it would make the Chinese Air Force's logistical support for the warplane fleet more efficient as there would be more spare parts and dedicated personnel, Fu said, noting that economic and political factors might also play a part in the potential deal due to China and Russia's close relations, and a Chinese purchase would help boost Russia's aviation industry.

China previously purchased 24 Su-35 fighter jets for around $2.5 billion from Russia, which have all been delivered to China, TASS reported.

When asked at a routine press conference in November 2018 if all 24 Su-35s had been delivered, Ren Guoqiang, spokesperson for the Ministry of National Defense, didn't directly address the question but said that China and Russia's military technological cooperation projects are making steady progress as scheduled. 

The fighter jets have since joined the People's Liberation Army Air Force service, conducting missions including patrols around the island of Taiwan and drills in the South China Sea.

Fu said the Su-35 is one of the best fourth generation fighter jets in the world, but is still no match for the most advanced fifth generation stealth planes like China's J-20.

Russia also offered China its fifth generation fighter jet Su-57, Jane's Defense Weekly reported in March.

The Chinese side has yet to announce any response to Russia's offers.

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## JSCh

*Chinese AEW aircraft 50 percent more efficient than those used by US: report*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2019/7/7 16:32:14



A KJ-2000 airborne early warning (AEW) aircraft takes off for a flight training exercise during the "Red Sword-2017" systemic confrontation training exercise held by the Chinese PLA Air Force in deep desert in late November, 2017. Photo: eng.chinamil.com.cn 

China's aerial early warning (AEW) aircraft are 50 percent more efficient than US ones in terms of electromagnetic resources utility, prompting military analysts to say on Sunday that the Chinese aircraft could retain maximum detection and communication capabilities even under strong hostile electromagnetic interference.

Tang Xiaobin, a senior scientist at the state-owned China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC), developed an innovative theory on utilizing electromagnetic resources more efficiently and put it into use after she joined the Chinese AEW aircraft project in 1999, Beijing-based Science and Technology Daily reported on Friday.

Electromagnetic compatibility is a constant problem in electronic warfare, as strong radiation from electronic warfare antennas could interfere with other equipment on aircraft, resulting in a decrease in electromagnetic resources efficiency.

Usually these incompatibilities must be found and solved one by one, which takes a lot of time and is not applicable on the more complicated AEW aircraft, so Tang designed a methodology to consider the electromagnetic environment as a whole by separating different electromagnetic energies into two categories: One that boosts certain capabilities, and one that hinders certain capabilities.

Specifics on the methodology were not detailed in the report, but it said that the methodology helped Chinese AEW aircraft enjoy a 50 percent increase in electromagnetic resources utility efficiency compared with mainstream US AEW aircraft.

Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military analyst, told the Global Times on Sunday that AEW aircraft could face strong electromagnetic interference from enemy forces, and this methodology could help protect aircraft systems from such attacks without having compatibility problems of its own.

Thanks to this, China's AEW aircraft are more reliable (than US ones) and will always make the best of its electromagnetic resources, retaining its maximum detection and communication capabilities, Wei said.

China now operates multiple types of AEW aircraft including the KJ-200, KJ-500 and KJ-2000.

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## Deino

JSCh said:


> *Chinese AEW aircraft 50 percent more efficient than those used by US: report*
> ....



Sorry to say so, but quite a bolt and IMO unrealistic claim especially since the PLAAF surely does not know the true data of the US systems.

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## 055_destroyer

Deino said:


> Sorry to say so, but quite a bolt and IMO unrealistic claim especially since the PLAAF surely does not know the true data of the US systems.


Didn't US always claim China hack and steal their data? Obviously, US hack and intercept Japanese midway battle plan and know exactly where IJN were attacking. The Japanese did not tell American those Info, right?


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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> Sorry to say so, but quite a bolt and IMO unrealistic claim especially since the PLAAF surely does not know the true data of the US systems.


There were a lot of articles in the past year regarding how Chinese systems are better than US ones. It is very hard to support these claims since they are not based on anything - Even if some of them are true. 
I believe these articles are mainly for domestic purposes as well as Chinese allies like us (Pakistan) for reflecting technological power.


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## Deino

Seems as if the former 1st Division and its regiments are in transition?! The 2nd Brigade is in process of converting from J-10A to J-10C and now the 3rd Brigade from J-8F to J-16 ...what's next? Will the 1st Brigade be the next unit to get J-20?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1154321787397611520


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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> Seems as if the former 1st Division and its regiments are in transition?! The 2nd Brigade is in process of converting from J-10A to J-10C and now the 3rd Brigade from J-8F to J-16 ...what's next? Will the 1st Brigade be the next unit to get J-20?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1154321787397611520


IMO, it will be much smarter for PLAAF to give a STC's unit the J-20. It will signal the West and Taiwan that China means business in the SCS.
BTW, are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Bgd all under the same base?


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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> IMO, it will be much smarter for PLAAF to give a STC's unit the J-20. It will signal the West and Taiwan that China means business in the SCS.
> BTW, are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Bgd all under the same base?



Indeed ... and if for the STC I expected this the 4th Brigade.


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## lcloo

What type of aircraft mix is more effective in a brigade? 8 X J20 + 24 X J16, or 16 X J20 +16 X J16?


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## Deino

lcloo said:


> What type of aircraft mix is more effective in a brigade? 8 X J20 + 24 X J16, or 16 X J20 +16 X J16?



From what I unterstand, the regulär Brigades are using only one type, however there are rumours that suggest, yhat the PLAAF wanted some sort of mixed type brigades. An example is the 176th at Dingxin which comprises one squadron (?) of J-16, J-10C and J-20 ... however it could be a that this is due to being a trails unit.

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## aliaselin

bahadur999 said:


> IMO, it will be much smarter for PLAAF to give a STC's unit the J-20. It will signal the West and Taiwan that China means business in the SCS.
> BTW, are the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Bgd all under the same base?


This is big misunderstood about our strategy. Taiwan and the peninsule are much more important in our strategy and PLA takes offensive stance on them, while with less focus on SCS and our western border.

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## bahadur999

aliaselin said:


> This is big misunderstood about our strategy. Taiwan and the peninsule are much more important in our strategy and PLA takes offensive stance on them, while with less focus on SCS and our western border.


True but China doesn't need J-20 for Taiwan. You can crash Taiwan with much lower quality of equipments. J-20 is for the big games.


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## aliaselin

bahadur999 said:


> True but China doesn't need J-20 for Taiwan. You can crash Taiwan with much lower quality of equipments. J-20 is for the big games.


The most advanced weapons are prepared for US's interference. For SCS and the west, China want to make peace and solve the problem through negotiation, while Taiwan not.

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

Anyone with more information??


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1159047575338704896


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## LKJ86



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## Figaro

bahadur999 said:


> True but China doesn't need J-20 for Taiwan. You can crash Taiwan with much lower quality of equipments. J-20 is for the big games.


Well using the J-10 against 4th generation Taiwanese aircraft would basically be a turkey hunt ... why not? If the PLAAF use their 4th generation fighters against those of Taiwan they will suffer much heavier casualties if they used J-20

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## LKJ86

https://m.weibo.cn/1917597703/4406931336340931

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## lcloo

Fighter Jets estimation done by 隼鹰 CJDBY on 2019-8-13, cut off date at 2019 July. Poster put on caveat : No Guarantee on accuracy as data came from unofficial sources.

庆祝八一建军节，今天做个关于兔子战斗机力量的统计，统计包括兔子空军和海军航空兵。所有数据来自路边社，不保证真实性与准确性，时间截至在2019年7月。

*SU Series : 161*
苏霍伊系列：161架

SU-27SK/UBK：40架 （空军歼击航空兵第4、16、41、55旅）

SU-30MKK：73架（空军沧州基地飞训3团，空军歼击航空兵第6、54、85、99旅）

SU-30MK2：24架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）

SU-35SK：24架（空军歼击航空兵第6旅）


*J11/15/16 series: 597*
J-11/15/16系列：597架

J-11A：105架（空军试飞院、空军歼击航空兵第4、16、41、55旅）

J-11B/BS ：220架 （空军沧州基地飞训2团、空军鼎新基地武器试验团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第1、19、89、95、111旅）

J-11BH/BSH ：72架（海军航空大学、海航歼击航空兵第8旅）

*J15 : 40*
J-15：40架（海航兴城舰载机基地某团）

*J16: 160*
J-16：160架（空军沧州基地飞训3团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第3、7、40、83、98旅）


*J20 : 30*​J-20系列：30架

J-20：30架（空军沧州基地飞训3团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心，空军歼击航空兵第9旅）


*J10 series : 530*
J-10系列：530架

J-10A：192架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第8、26、34、43、70、124、130旅）

J-10AH：16架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）

J-10AY：8架（空军八一飞行表演队）

J-10B：58架（空军沧州基地飞训1团，空军歼击航空兵第5、56、61旅）

J-10C：120架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第2、5、72、131旅）

J-10S：124架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第2、5、8、26、34、43、56、61、70、72、124、130、131旅）

J-10SH：8架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）

J-10SY：4架（空军八一飞行表演队）


*J8 series :132*
J-8系列：132架

J-8F/DF/HF：96架（空军歼击航空兵第78、109旅，海航歼击航空兵第5旅）

J-8FR：36架（空军侦察航空兵第46、93团）


*J7 series: 396*
 J-7系列：396架

J-7G：72架（空军歼击航空兵第34、44、52旅）

J-7L：72架（空军歼击航空兵第21、53旅）

J-7E：144架（空军歼击航空兵第25、88、97、132旅）

J-7H：108架（空军歼击航空兵第18、63、125旅）


*JH7 series : 288*
飞豹系列：288架

*JH-7 : 32* (PLAN Aviation 6th regiment)
JH-7：32架（海航歼击轰炸航空兵第6旅）

*JH-7A : 256* (PLAAF Dinxing Weapon Testing brigade, PLAAF Dinxing OPFOR Blue Force, PLAAF brigades 15, 31, 83, 110, 126th, PLAN Aviation University, PLAN 2nd training brigade, PLAN Aviation 5th regiment, PLAN Aviation 9th regiment)
JH-7A：256架（空军鼎新基地武器试验团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击轰炸航空兵第15、31、83、110、126旅，海军航空大学、海航训练基地2团、海航歼击航空兵第5旅、海航歼击轰炸航空兵第9旅）

*Total Fighter Jets* 战斗机总数：*2134*架

*Modern Fighter Jets* 先进战斗机总数：*1173*架（SU-30MKK+SU-30MK2+SU-35SK+J-11B/BS+J-11BH/BSH+J-15+J-16+J-20+J-10系列

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> *J15 : 40*
> J-15：40架（海航兴城舰载机基地某团）




This number seems off by a wide margin.

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## LKJ86



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## POTTER

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 576765


Why you are still using F-7s???


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## truthseeker2010

Deino said:


> This number seems off by a wide margin.



j-15 is a carrier based fighter with plan?


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## Deino

truthseeker2010 said:


> j-15 is a carrier based fighter with plan?




Yes, but what has this fact to do with a completely wrong number?


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## Figaro

Deino said:


> This number seems off by a wide margin.


The J-20 number also seems quite low ...

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> The J-20 number also seems quite low ...



Low? In fact it is quite high if they only list serial operational ones. I know that there are surely more than the 13 so far confirmed ones, but 30 seems IMO too high.

Anyway ... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168089118389297152


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Low? In fact it is quite high if they only list serial operational ones. I know that there are surely more than the 13 so far confirmed ones, but 30 seems IMO too high.
> 
> Anyway ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1168089118389297152


Over 500 J-10s are builded, but how many can you confirm?

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Over 500 J-10s are builded, but how many can you confirm?




Again a good point, but you surely know me, I'm rather conservative with confirmation and prefer a lower more confirmed number than an overrated estimation. 
In principle I agree with you that there are surely more ...


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## LKJ86



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## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> Over 500 J-10s are builded, but how many can you confirm?



Does the author of the post have access to information that no one else does? Because there has been no physical evidence, i.e. photographs, that more than ~24 J-15s exist.

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## LKJ86



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## truthseeker2010

lcloo said:


> Fighter Jets estimation done by 隼鹰 CJDBY on 2019-8-13, cut off date at 2019 July. Poster put on caveat : No Guarantee on accuracy as data came from unofficial sources.
> 
> 庆祝八一建军节，今天做个关于兔子战斗机力量的统计，统计包括兔子空军和海军航空兵。所有数据来自路边社，不保证真实性与准确性，时间截至在2019年7月。
> 
> *SU Series : 161*
> 苏霍伊系列：161架
> 
> SU-27SK/UBK：40架 （空军歼击航空兵第4、16、41、55旅）
> 
> SU-30MKK：73架（空军沧州基地飞训3团，空军歼击航空兵第6、54、85、99旅）
> 
> SU-30MK2：24架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）
> 
> SU-35SK：24架（空军歼击航空兵第6旅）
> 
> 
> *J11/15/16 series: 597*
> J-11/15/16系列：597架
> 
> J-11A：105架（空军试飞院、空军歼击航空兵第4、16、41、55旅）
> 
> J-11B/BS ：220架 （空军沧州基地飞训2团、空军鼎新基地武器试验团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第1、19、89、95、111旅）
> 
> J-11BH/BSH ：72架（海军航空大学、海航歼击航空兵第8旅）
> 
> *J15 : 40*
> J-15：40架（海航兴城舰载机基地某团）
> 
> *J16: 160*
> J-16：160架（空军沧州基地飞训3团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第3、7、40、83、98旅）
> 
> 
> *J20 : 30*​J-20系列：30架
> 
> J-20：30架（空军沧州基地飞训3团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心，空军歼击航空兵第9旅）
> 
> 
> *J10 series : 530*
> J-10系列：530架
> 
> J-10A：192架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第8、26、34、43、70、124、130旅）
> 
> J-10AH：16架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）
> 
> J-10AY：8架（空军八一飞行表演队）
> 
> J-10B：58架（空军沧州基地飞训1团，空军歼击航空兵第5、56、61旅）
> 
> J-10C：120架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第2、5、72、131旅）
> 
> J-10S：124架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第2、5、8、26、34、43、56、61、70、72、124、130、131旅）
> 
> J-10SH：8架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）
> 
> J-10SY：4架（空军八一飞行表演队）
> 
> 
> *J8 series :132*
> J-8系列：132架
> 
> J-8F/DF/HF：96架（空军歼击航空兵第78、109旅，海航歼击航空兵第5旅）
> 
> J-8FR：36架（空军侦察航空兵第46、93团）
> 
> 
> *J7 series: 396*
> J-7系列：396架
> 
> J-7G：72架（空军歼击航空兵第34、44、52旅）
> 
> J-7L：72架（空军歼击航空兵第21、53旅）
> 
> J-7E：144架（空军歼击航空兵第25、88、97、132旅）
> 
> J-7H：108架（空军歼击航空兵第18、63、125旅）
> 
> 
> *JH7 series : 288*
> 飞豹系列：288架
> 
> *JH-7 : 32* (PLAN Aviation 6th regiment)
> JH-7：32架（海航歼击轰炸航空兵第6旅）
> 
> *JH-7A : 256* (PLAAF Dinxing Weapon Testing brigade, PLAAF Dinxing OPFOR Blue Force, PLAAF brigades 15, 31, 83, 110, 126th, PLAN Aviation University, PLAN 2nd training brigade, PLAN Aviation 5th regiment, PLAN Aviation 9th regiment)
> JH-7A：256架（空军鼎新基地武器试验团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击轰炸航空兵第15、31、83、110、126旅，海军航空大学、海航训练基地2团、海航歼击航空兵第5旅、海航歼击轰炸航空兵第9旅）
> 
> *Total Fighter Jets* 战斗机总数：*2134*架
> 
> *Modern Fighter Jets* 先进战斗机总数：*1173*架（SU-30MKK+SU-30MK2+SU-35SK+J-11B/BS+J-11BH/BSH+J-15+J-16+J-20+J-10系列





lcloo said:


> Fighter Jets estimation done by 隼鹰 CJDBY on 2019-8-13, cut off date at 2019 July. Poster put on caveat : No Guarantee on accuracy as data came from unofficial sources.
> 
> 庆祝八一建军节，今天做个关于兔子战斗机力量的统计，统计包括兔子空军和海军航空兵。所有数据来自路边社，不保证真实性与准确性，时间截至在2019年7月。
> 
> *SU Series : 161*
> 苏霍伊系列：161架
> 
> SU-27SK/UBK：40架 （空军歼击航空兵第4、16、41、55旅）
> 
> SU-30MKK：73架（空军沧州基地飞训3团，空军歼击航空兵第6、54、85、99旅）
> 
> SU-30MK2：24架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）
> 
> SU-35SK：24架（空军歼击航空兵第6旅）
> 
> 
> *J11/15/16 series: 597*
> J-11/15/16系列：597架
> 
> J-11A：105架（空军试飞院、空军歼击航空兵第4、16、41、55旅）
> 
> J-11B/BS ：220架 （空军沧州基地飞训2团、空军鼎新基地武器试验团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第1、19、89、95、111旅）
> 
> J-11BH/BSH ：72架（海军航空大学、海航歼击航空兵第8旅）
> 
> *J15 : 40*
> J-15：40架（海航兴城舰载机基地某团）
> 
> *J16: 160*
> J-16：160架（空军沧州基地飞训3团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第3、7、40、83、98旅）
> 
> 
> *J20 : 30*​J-20系列：30架
> 
> J-20：30架（空军沧州基地飞训3团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心，空军歼击航空兵第9旅）
> 
> 
> *J10 series : 530*
> J-10系列：530架
> 
> J-10A：192架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第8、26、34、43、70、124、130旅）
> 
> J-10AH：16架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）
> 
> J-10AY：8架（空军八一飞行表演队）
> 
> J-10B：58架（空军沧州基地飞训1团，空军歼击航空兵第5、56、61旅）
> 
> J-10C：120架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第2、5、72、131旅）
> 
> J-10S：124架（空军沧州基地飞训1团、空军鼎新基地评估测试中心、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击航空兵第2、5、8、26、34、43、56、61、70、72、124、130、131旅）
> 
> J-10SH：8架（海航歼击航空兵第4旅）
> 
> J-10SY：4架（空军八一飞行表演队）
> 
> 
> *J8 series :132*
> J-8系列：132架
> 
> J-8F/DF/HF：96架（空军歼击航空兵第78、109旅，海航歼击航空兵第5旅）
> 
> J-8FR：36架（空军侦察航空兵第46、93团）
> 
> 
> *J7 series: 396*
> J-7系列：396架
> 
> J-7G：72架（空军歼击航空兵第34、44、52旅）
> 
> J-7L：72架（空军歼击航空兵第21、53旅）
> 
> J-7E：144架（空军歼击航空兵第25、88、97、132旅）
> 
> J-7H：108架（空军歼击航空兵第18、63、125旅）
> 
> 
> *JH7 series : 288*
> 飞豹系列：288架
> 
> *JH-7 : 32* (PLAN Aviation 6th regiment)
> JH-7：32架（海航歼击轰炸航空兵第6旅）
> 
> *JH-7A : 256* (PLAAF Dinxing Weapon Testing brigade, PLAAF Dinxing OPFOR Blue Force, PLAAF brigades 15, 31, 83, 110, 126th, PLAN Aviation University, PLAN 2nd training brigade, PLAN Aviation 5th regiment, PLAN Aviation 9th regiment)
> JH-7A：256架（空军鼎新基地武器试验团、空军鼎新基地蓝军旅，空军歼击轰炸航空兵第15、31、83、110、126旅，海军航空大学、海航训练基地2团、海航歼击航空兵第5旅、海航歼击轰炸航空兵第9旅）
> 
> *Total Fighter Jets* 战斗机总数：*2134*架
> 
> *Modern Fighter Jets* 先进战斗机总数：*1173*架（SU-30MKK+SU-30MK2+SU-35SK+J-11B/BS+J-11BH/BSH+J-15+J-16+J-20+J-10系列



Is the plan aviation included in the list?


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## lcloo

truthseeker2010 said:


> Is the plan aviation included in the list?


Yes, it is included.


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## truthseeker2010

lcloo said:


> Yes, it is included.



No Q-5?


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## LKJ86

truthseeker2010 said:


> No Q-5?


Who cares the ones that are already out of service completely?

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## bahadur999

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1171323426738528256@Deino


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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1171323426738528256@Deino




Dandong AB, home of the 88th Air Brigade

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## LKJ86

New video from PLAAF's Weibo:
https://m.weibo.cn/5707057078/4415142131574584

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## bahadur999

Da


Deino said:


> Dandong AB, home of the 88th Air Brigade
> 
> View attachment 578756


Dandong is a different base, nearby.


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## LKJ86

Via @拓城模型TopgunChen from Weibo

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## The Ronin



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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Fsjal

Does anyone here know if there are pics of the actual cockpits of J-20, J-16, J-11D and J-15?

I personally think Chinese fighter jets are underrated, and it's a shame there aren't really any mil. aviation sims containing Chinese fighters to fly. DCS is the only sim that at least has a Chinese fighter jet to fly, which is J-11A, but since there's some infos on cockpit of J-11B, J-10C, and JH-7A, it'd be cool to see these planes in flight sims too.

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## LKJ86

Via @JacKsonbobo from Weibo

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## bahadur999

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/soc...nanyuan-airport-closes-civil-aviation-hi-tech
Does it mean no more 102nd Regiment? or relocation?
@Deino


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## LKJ86

Via @-風行雲上- from Weibo

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## truthseeker2010

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 582921
> 
> Via @-風行雲上- from Weibo



should have included J-20 to complete the evolution.


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## nang2

truthseeker2010 said:


> should have included J-20 to complete the evolution.


That is for Chinese air display team.


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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1183208098296549376Global Times✔@globaltimesnews

The Chinese Air Force will host open day activities from Oct 17 to Oct 21 in Changchun, Northeast China's Jilin Province, to celebrate its 70th founding anniversary. The activities will feature J-20 stealth fighter jets and Y-20 large transport planes.

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## LKJ86

Via @社会主义新青年Memorian from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

J-8
















Via @盘旋的马尤_0624 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @耿直的鲁斯兰 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @LauY飞喵 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @航空知识365 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Xi Stresses Building World-class Air Force

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> Xi Stresses Building World-class Air Force


Can you BELIEVE it???? I mean believe in youtube 

Youtube block this video saying some entity in China regards CCTV+ violates the copy left matter.

Do you really believe that what is officially said is the real reason???

Here's the screenshot taken just minutes ago:






Original Video Link_https://www.youtube.com/watch/? v=au58w7V0PlQ

OK, watch it directly at CCTV Plus website - MULTILINGUAL: English, French, Russian, Spanish, Arabic

Xi stresses building world-class air force
http://www.cctvplus.com/news/20191108/8126695.shtml

Date: 2019-11-08
Duration : 4'42

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## LKJ86

Via @DS北风 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Xi Jinping marks 70th anniversary of founding of PLA Air Force

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## LKJ86

Via @钢铁机机 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @wanquanfoto from Weibo

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## JSCh

*China to create world-class air force*
By Liu Xuanzun and Liu Yang Source:Global Times Published: 2019/11/11 23:03:40

More advanced aircraft, drills to help achieve goal by 2050: experts



The Bayi (August 1) Aerobatic Team performs during an activity celebrating the 70th founding anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force in Changchun, capital of northeast China's Jilin Province, Oct. 17, 2019. The five-day activity, where the PLA air force will showcase weapons and equipment and offer aerobatic shows to celebrate its 70th founding anniversary, kicked off here on Thursday. The audience can feast their eyes on aerobatic flights, parachute shows, combat exercises of third-generation fighters and demonstrations of airborne special force. A total of 35 aircraft of 10 types will perform aerobatics, including J-20 stealth fighter, Y-20 transport aircraft and J-16 fighter. With 19 aircraft included, the air force selected 71 pieces of equipment for the static display to showcase the capacity of air combat, strategic delivery, early warning and detection, information support and air defense and anti-missile. (Xinhua/Zhang Nan)

The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force will gradually get more J-20 stealth fighters and Y-20 large transport aircraft, as well as the H-20 bomber in the near future to meet the goal of becoming a world-class force, experts predicted, as the service celebrated its 70th founding anniversary on Monday.

A video the PLA Air Force released on Sunday showcased its advanced, main battle equipment, including J-20 and J-16 fighters, H-6N strategic bomber, Y-20 transport plane, KJ-2000 airborne early warning system, and the HQ-9 surface-to-air missile system.

Compared to 70 years ago, when aircraft had to fly over Tiananmen Square twice at the founding ceremony of the People's Republic of China to show that China had strong air power, the new video showed what the PLA Air Force has become today, military observers said.

China now has aerial tankers, electronic warfare aircraft and electronic reconnaissance aircraft, and its fighter jets have evolved from first to fifth generation, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defense expert, told the Global Times, noting that this shows the Air Force has a more complete system with more types of aircraft and the latest technologies.

Attending a Friday event celebrating the Air Force's founding anniversary, Chinese President Xi Jinping called for efforts to fully build the PLA Air Force into a world-class air force, the Xinhua News Agency reported on Friday.

A senior official of the Chinese Air Force said in November 2018 that the first step is to, by 2020, build a strategic force that integrates aviation and space power, and strike and defense capabilities, then the strategic capabilities will be improved and become modern by 2035, and the Air Force's full transformation into a world-class force will be achieved by mid-21st century, Xinhua reported.

The Air Force will gradually get more advanced aircraft like the J-20 and Y-20 to achieve that goal, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times, noting that variants and new aircraft will be developed to keep the Air Force technologically advanced and systematically complete.

The H-20, China's in-development, highly anticipated strategic stealth bomber comparable to the US B-2, will fill in the void, the expert predicted, noting that the Y-20 could also see a tanker variant so China could get its first domestically developed large aerial tanker.

More drones could also be developed, the expert said. China already operates drones like the GJ-2 armed reconnaissance drone, GJ-11 stealth attack drone and WZ-8 high-altitude, high-speed reconnaissance drone.

Fu said it is also important to focus on military exercises close to real battles to boost the comprehensive combat capabilities of the Air Force.

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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weixin

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1197850552626892801

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## samsara

JSCh said:


> *China to create world-class air force*
> By Liu Xuanzun and Liu Yang Source:Global Times Published: 2019/11/11 23:03:40
> 
> More advanced aircraft, drills to help achieve goal by 2050: experts
> 
> 
> 
> The Bayi (August 1) Aerobatic Team performs during an activity celebrating the 70th founding anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) air force in Changchun, capital of northeast China's Jilin Province, Oct. 17, 2019. The five-day activity, where the PLA air force will showcase weapons and equipment and offer aerobatic shows to celebrate its 70th founding anniversary, kicked off here on Thursday. The audience can feast their eyes on aerobatic flights, parachute shows, combat exercises of third-generation fighters and demonstrations of airborne special force. A total of 35 aircraft of 10 types will perform aerobatics, including J-20 stealth fighter, Y-20 transport aircraft and J-16 fighter. With 19 aircraft included, the air force selected 71 pieces of equipment for the static display to showcase the capacity of air combat, strategic delivery, early warning and detection, information support and air defense and anti-missile. (Xinhua/Zhang Nan)
> 
> The Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force will gradually get more J-20 stealth fighters and Y-20 large transport aircraft, as well as the H-20 bomber in the near future to meet the goal of becoming a world-class force, experts predicted, as the service celebrated its 70th founding anniversary on Monday.
> 
> A video the PLA Air Force released on Sunday showcased its advanced, main battle equipment, including J-20 and J-16 fighters, H-6N strategic bomber, Y-20 transport plane, KJ-2000 airborne early warning system, and the HQ-9 surface-to-air missile system.
> 
> Compared to 70 years ago, when aircraft had to fly over Tiananmen Square twice at the founding ceremony of the People's Republic of China to show that China had strong air power, the new video showed what the PLA Air Force has become today, military observers said.
> 
> China now has aerial tankers, electronic warfare aircraft and electronic reconnaissance aircraft, and its fighter jets have evolved from first to fifth generation, Fu Qianshao, a Chinese air defense expert, told the Global Times, noting that this shows the Air Force has a more complete system with more types of aircraft and the latest technologies.
> 
> Attending a Friday event celebrating the Air Force's founding anniversary, Chinese President Xi Jinping called for efforts to fully build the PLA Air Force into a world-class air force, the Xinhua News Agency reported on Friday.
> 
> A senior official of the Chinese Air Force said in November 2018 that the first step is to, by 2020, build a strategic force that integrates aviation and space power, and strike and defense capabilities, then the strategic capabilities will be improved and become modern by 2035, and the Air Force's full transformation into a world-class force will be achieved by mid-21st century, Xinhua reported.
> 
> The Air Force will gradually get more advanced aircraft like the J-20 and Y-20 to achieve that goal, an anonymous military expert told the Global Times, noting that variants and new aircraft will be developed to keep the Air Force technologically advanced and systematically complete.
> 
> The H-20, China's in-development, highly anticipated strategic stealth bomber comparable to the US B-2, will fill in the void, the expert predicted, noting that the Y-20 could also see a tanker variant so China could get its first domestically developed large aerial tanker.
> 
> More drones could also be developed, the expert said. China already operates drones like the GJ-2 armed reconnaissance drone, GJ-11 stealth attack drone and WZ-8 high-altitude, high-speed reconnaissance drone.
> 
> Fu said it is also important to focus on military exercises close to real battles to boost the comprehensive combat capabilities of the Air Force.


_“… *A video the PLA Air Force released on SUNDAY (10 November)* showcased its advanced, main battle equipment, including J-20 and J-16 fighters, H-6N strategic bomber, Y-20 transport plane, KJ-2000 airborne early warning system, and the HQ-9 surface-to-air missile system…” _

Does any one have the link to the above-mentioned video?


----------



## LKJ86

Via PLAAF from Weibo


----------



## LKJ86

Via @航空工业 fro Weixin

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1212414113940410369


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1214117642140897280

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## JSCh

*Military developing airborne laser attack pod, says report*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2020/1/7 0:03:39




China's most advanced fighter jet, J-20, performs at the Chinese Air Force's "open day" event in Changchun, Northeast China's Jilin Province on Thursday. This is the second time the stealth warplane opened its side missile bays and showcased its short-range combat missiles. They were first revealed at Airshow China 2018. Photo: IC

The Chinese military is procuring a laser attack pod, which Chinese media speculated could be an aircraft-based tactical weapon.

If equipped on aircraft, the laser could potentially protect against incoming missile attacks and dominate in close-range combat, analysts said.

The procurement plan for the laser attack pod was revealed Saturday in a notice released on the Chinese military's weapon and equipment procurement website weain.mil.cn, Weihutang, a column on military affairs affiliated with China Central Television, reported on Monday.

The notice included the title of the procurement, but the details remained confidential.

Weihutang speculated that the laser attack pod was likely an airborne tactical laser, noting that if the weapon was used to guide bombs rather than directly attack, it would be called a laser guidance pod.

The report said China has already developed a prototype for an airborne laser weapon, citing a publically available academic thesis.

Since a laser travels at the speed of light, it shoots where it is aimed - with no time delay - a significant advantage over missiles and bullets, a military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Monday.

This makes a laser a great tool for aerial interception, he said.

An airborne laser weapon could intercept incoming missiles and shoot down hostile aircraft in a dogfight, the expert said.

China has already developed land-based laser weapons.

At Airshow China 2018, state-owned China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) showcased the LW-30 laser defense weapon system, which could use a directional-emission high-energy laser to intercept aerial targets such as photoelectric guidance equipment, drones, guided bombs and mortars, according to a CASIC statement sent to the Global Times.

The US has been researching airborne laser weapons since the 1990s and made significant progress in related technologies, Weihutang reported.

However, this genre of weapon has not yet seen wide deployment due to remaining technical difficulties including power supply and energy loss problems, analysts said.

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## Deino

By the way, there is again something interesting noted by plawolf at the SDF:



> Not really sure where to put this, but I noticed something a bit odd. Weihai airport is a mixed military-civilian one that I sometimes fly to when travelling in China. The airlines are very hot on making passengers close the blinds when approaching the military part, so photos/videos are not worth the hassle, but I did get a peek when I was in China recently.
> 37°10'39"N 122°13'41"E · 35.8 m
> The unit there seems to be a mix of J7s, J10s and JL9s. The J7 numbers have been gradually reducing over the years, and now, there only seem to be 3 J7s there, but they are the only ones armed for CAP. When I am I the area, I frequently see J10s and JL9s taking off and landing (they fly to somewhere else to do most of their actual training), but never J7s. Just seems odd to me to have a tiny token J7 unit present who don’t seem to train and just sit there on quick alert CAP standby duty. Maybe the J7s are homebased elsewhere, and they just maintain their presence there for CAP cover to ensure the J10s are available for training



My reply was, that this is indeed interesting since Wendeng (at least I know this base by that name) is home of the 36th Air Brigade allegedly flying J-7G ... and he explained that those J-10As are there since "at least 3 years".



> Those are J10As, and they have been there for at least 3 years from my personal observations. I cannot really tell if they are still J10As or if they might have upgraded to Bs of Cs since, because the J10s all had covers on when I was there this year.
> The JL9s are not a full unit, just the odd aircraft parked at one of the shelters. I do see them go up every now and then (first time I saw a pair I thought they were JF17s at first glance), so not sure if they are homebased there or just come over for exercises every now and then.
> The J10As are definitely homed based there.



So does this mean, the 36th Brigade is now also converted to J-10A, but from which unit then did they come from or at least any J-10 variant? 
Or are they from another unit and we did not notice that they are now based at Wendeng? 

Best,
Andreas

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1218829796987162624

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## LKJ86

J-8







Via kj.81.cn

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> J-8
> View attachment 600733
> View attachment 600734
> 
> Via kj.81.cn




Any info where this is?


----------



## JSCh

*Air Force reveals J-20 combat formation*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2020/1/20 18:13:40



The “three musketeers of the sky” – the J-20, J-16 and J-10C – fly in formation in a real-combat scenario training session. Photo: Screenshot from China Central Television

China's most advanced J-20 stealth fighter jets assigned to an ace unit have been conducting real-combat scenario training together with powerful J-16 and agile J-10C jets, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force revealed, as a Chinese expert said Monday the combination can conjure a kaleidoscope of tactics to safeguard the country.

In a video released Sunday that celebrates the upcoming Spring Festival, the PLA Air Force showed the first scenes of J-20 fighter jets of the Wang Hai Air Group conducting real-combat scenario training.

This is an indication that the J-20 jets are making smooth progress in the air force, as their service has entered a new stage of comprehensive combat capability, military experts said.

The video also showed for the first time the J-20, J-16 and J-10C, dubbed the "three musketeers of the sky," taking off and conducting real-combat scenario training together. Two J-20s, two J-16s and one J-10C formed a combat formation, according to the video.

The combination of one J-20, one J-16 and one J-10C was tested in 2018, China Central Television (CCTV) reported then.

Air defense expert Fu Qianshao told the Global Times on Monday that the air force has been exploring tactics with the J-20 and other fighter jets in previous mock competitive training and has gained some experience in acquiring air superiority, land attack and sea attack.

While the J-20 is more advanced than the J-16 and J-10C, they share advanced technologies like avionics and active electronically scanned array radars, according to Fu.

The J-16, the least stealthy of the three, can lead an attack and openly use radar to detect targets and attract enemy attention, while the stealthy J-20s can lurk nearby and launch surprise missile attacks when hostile targets engage the J-16, Fu said, noting that the J-10C, when equipped with the domestically developed thrust vector control engine, will excel at close-quarters dogfights thanks to super maneuverability.

Another tactic is to first have the J-20 destroy hostile strategic hubs, including early warning aircraft and aerial tankers, using their stealth capability, and then the heavily loaded J-16 can strike enemy ground forces including mobile radar stations as the J-10C takes over air supremacy, experts told the Global Times.

The J-20 has a kaleidoscope of tactics to fulfill their missions and more mock combat exercises should be conducted, Fu said, noting he also expects electronic warfare aircraft to accompany the J-20.

The J-20 made its first test flight in 2011, its public debut at Airshow China 2016 and entered military service in 2017.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1219469668215222272

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## bahadur999

*Chinese military enthusiasts expect new warplanes in 2020*
By Liu Xuanzun Source:Global Times Published: 2020/1/22 18:03:41





China's most advanced fighter jet, J-20, performs at the Chinese Air Force's "open day" event in Changchun, Northeast China's Jilin Province on Thursday. This is the second time the stealth warplane opened its side missile bays and showcased its short-range combat missiles. They were first revealed at Airshow China 2018. Photo: IC

Chinese military enthusiasts online are eagerly expecting new, homemade warplanes to debut in 2020, naming the next-generation aircraft carrier-based fighter jet and the carrier-based early warning aircraft as their top wishes.

They also hope to see domestically developed aero engines finally equipped on J-20 stealth fighter jets.

The internet users' appetite was whetted by a statement from the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) last week, in which the country's main warplane developer announced the company would develop nine types of aircraft, conduct maiden flights for four types of aircraft, and receive a production permit for one type of aircraft in 2020.

While the development plan may not be revealed to the public immediately, the maiden flights are more concrete, as the military channel of news portal Sina held a vote on its social media platform Weibo, asking military enthusiasts online which type of aircraft they would like to see.

As of Wednesday, 42 percent of more than 4,000 votes went to the next-generation aircraft carrier-based fighter jet, 28 percent the carrier-based early warning aircraft and 23 percent the twin-seat variant J-20 fighter jet.

While the new aircraft AVIC mentioned could include both military and civilian aircraft, China's military aviation equipment will definitely continue to see new progress in 2020, a military expert who asked not to be named told the Global Times on Wednesday.

China needs to develop a stealth-capable carrier-based fighter jet to form a complete set with the country's future aircraft carrier, air defense expert Fu Qianshao told the Global Times in a previous interview, noting details on the aircraft remain rumors.

A replica of China's carrier-based early warning aircraft was spotted years ago. This type of aircraft could amplify aircraft carrier's combat capability by acting as a command center in the sky, gathering information and coordinating vessels into a stronger strike force, experts said.

Photographers posted photos of a J-20, still single seat but equipped with homemade engines on Sina Weibo in late 2019, as military enthusiasts said they also wish to see this evolved version of the J-20 debut at the 2020 Airshow China, scheduled for November in Zhuhai, South China's Guangdong Province.

In a Friday Weibo post, the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission of the State Council (SASAC) indicated AVIC is developing an "X-20," which internet users identified as the H-20 bomber.

Replying to comments under the post, SASAC said the X-20 was "coming soon," but refused to confirm the H-20 speculation.

Analysts said the H-20 is unlikely to debut in 2020 and will take more time to develop.

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## LKJ86

By 陈晓东





Via @陈小桃momo from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via kj.81.cn

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226803641635495936


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## LKJ86

Via kj.81.cn


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## LKJ86

Via @前站起飞 from Weibo

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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 604781
> View attachment 604782
> View attachment 604783
> View attachment 604784
> View attachment 604785
> View attachment 604786
> View attachment 604787
> View attachment 604789
> 
> Via @前站起飞 from Weibo


Okay, there are good quality pictures of eight kinds of craft, but I cannot be sure of the types of each, so from top down:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7. KJ-500 ?!
8. Y-20 series

Please complete the list


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## LKJ86

J-7













Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin


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## Deino

samsara said:


> Okay, there are good quality pictures of eight kinds of craft, but I cannot be sure of the types of each, so from top down:
> 
> 1.
> 2.
> 3.
> 4.
> 5.
> 6.
> 7. KJ-500 ?!
> 8. Y-20 series
> 
> Please complete the list





1. Z-9WZ
2. Z-10K
3. J-8F (or HF)
4. J-10B
5. H-6K
6. Y-8C
7. KJ-500 ?!
8. Y-20 series



LKJ86 said:


> J-7
> View attachment 604996
> View attachment 604997
> View attachment 604998
> View attachment 604999
> 
> Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin




Great, a J-7G Brigade with a new unit marking! 

Any idea where they were spotted? Allegedly a Brigade within the CTC, but give their number it does not look like the 21st Air Brigade (63x1x) 

looks more like 66xxx or 68xxx?

(via http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_193_75406.html#p=1)

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## samsara

Deino said:


> 1. Z-9WZ
> 2. Z-10K
> 3. J-8F (or HF)
> 4. J-10B
> 5. H-6K
> 6. Y-8C
> 7. KJ-500 ?!
> 8. Y-20 series
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Great, a J-7G Brigade with a new unit marking!
> 
> Any idea where they were spotted? Allegedly a Brigade within the CTC, but give their number it does not look like the 21st Air Brigade (63x1x)
> 
> looks more like 66xxx or 68xxx?
> 
> (via http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_193_75406.html#p=1)


Thanks Deino fyi! 

I could be right too for the no. 5. H-6 series yet too shy to put it down

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## samsara

From our mod here, Deino Rupprecht (2/21):

According to the original Weibo poster of these images, the construction of FL-62 wind tunnel is set to resume and is in the finishing stages.

*Here an older report:
*
_China's wind tunnel to shape future fighter jets: experts_
http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-09/27/content_9299469.htm

(Images via by78/SDF)











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1230772928951681025
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*China's wind tunnel to shape future fighter jets: experts* (2018-09-27)

*FL-62 simulates air flow around aircraft before real flight test*

*The nation's newest wind tunnel will shape China's future fighter jets and boost their efficiency*, according to its maker and Chinese military experts.

Approved for construction by the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defence *in 2012*, the FL-62 wind tunnel will be completed "very soon," according to a statement by the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) released on its WeChat account on Tuesday.

*Weighing 6,620 tons, the 17,000-cubic-meter FL-62 is China's first-ever large continuous transonic wind tunnel*, its maker said in the statement.

[In aeronautics, *transonic* (or transsonic) flight is flying at or near the speed of sound 343 meters per second or 1,235 km/h, at sea level under average conditions), relative to the air through which the vehicle is traveling.]

Unlike the unstable and inconsistent airflow of previous Chinese wind tunnels, the *FL-62 is able to provide a stable wind field and more precise measurements*, Song Zhongping, a military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Wednesday.

In this way, *many unnecessary trials and errors can be avoided in the designing of a new aircraft*, significantly reducing its development period, Song said.

*A wind tunnel is used to simulate the airflow around an aircraft before it conducts a real flight test.*

The results help shape and improve the *aerodynamic design* of the aircraft, the statement said.

*The statement dubbed the FL-62 a "pillar of a great power," calling it a fundamental and strategic facility crucial to China's aviation industry.*

The corporation noted specifically in the headline of the statement that *the FL-62 will decide the shape of China's future fighter jets* and will serve as a backbone for China's development of cutting-edge aircraft.

*With the help of the tunnel, China's sixth generation of fighter jets can be more aerodynamic and stealthy than ever before, Song said.*

*China's sixth generation fighters will include artificial intelligence, have multiple unmanned aerial vehicles under their command and be equipped with directed-energy weapons like lasers and high-power microwaves, Song said.*

China's most advanced fighter jet, the J-20, was developed by Chengdu Aircraft Industrial (Group) Company (CAC), a member of the Aviation Industry Corporation of CHINA (AVIC).

The J-20 was delivered to the People's Liberation Army in 2017.

In addition to the development of new fighter jets, the wind tunnel can also contribute to *space research*.

The tunnel is expected to see use in fields like transportation, construction, new energy and environmental protection, the statement reads.

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2018-09/27/content_9299469.htm

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## bahadur999

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...rms-industry-back-business-despite-disruption
Minnie Chan...but anyway:
"Chengdu Aerospace Corporation (CAC), a subsidiary of AVIC that designed and built the PLA’s new-generation J-20 fighter jet, has a set target of producing at least 300 J-20s in the next decade, according to a military insider."

300 J-20 will be like, (speculation) apart from the 9th and training units, considering each Brigade is around 25:

1st Brigade
20th Brigade
21st Brigade
35th Brigade
36th Brigade
44th Brigade
52nd Brigade
53th Brigade
55th Brigade
71st Brigade
125th Brigade
132nd Brigade


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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> ...
> 300 J-20 will be like, (speculation) apart from the 9th and training units, considering each Brigade is around 25:
> 
> 1st Brigade
> 20th Brigade
> 21st Brigade
> 35th Brigade
> 36th Brigade
> 44th Brigade
> 52nd Brigade
> 53th Brigade
> 55th Brigade
> 71st Brigade
> 125th Brigade
> 132nd Brigade




And from what are these suggested Brigades from?


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## bahadur999

Deino said:


> And from what are these suggested Brigades from?


55th was once speculated to convert...
The rest are just J-7 Brigades.
Again, just speculations!!!


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## Deino

bahadur999 said:


> 55th was once speculated to convert...
> The rest are just J-7 Brigades.
> Again, just speculations!!!




I think speculations are surely allowed, but they should be realistically.... IMO the PLAAF won't convert J-7 brigades to J-20.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232789442768900097


----------



## Beast

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1232789442768900097


LOL.. Deino stop using google translation.

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## Deino

Beast said:


> LOL.. Deino stop using google translation.



Ok ... 1:0 for you again! 

But anyway could you explain what is it related to?


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## Beast

Deino said:


> Ok ... 1:0 for you again!
> 
> But anyway could you explain what is it related to?


Nothing just talking about Chengdu staff resume work even in current extreme situation. How they take a bread van travel 2500km back to work and cook instant noodle to replenish themselves. LOL..

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## LKJ86

J-8































Via kj.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @B747SPNKG from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @空军在线 from Weixin


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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo


----------



## Akasa

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 610996
> 
> Via @万全 from Weibo



What's that blurred-out aircraft?


----------



## jaybird

Akasa said:


> What's that blurred-out aircraft?



It's not blurrred-out. It's auto stealth technology for China haters.

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## Deino

jaybird said:


> It's not blurrred-out. It's auto stealth technology for China haters.




But I'm surely not a China hater !!!






... and even for me it looks like blurred.

Anyway, looks like another Flanker (J-11B or J-15) given the PL-8-pylons.

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## juj06750

deino,
not clear if you're china-hater
but clear you're the only image hog
and NEVER listen to chinese (although very interested in our arms)
you're just among foreigners who never understand china


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## Deino

juj06750 said:


> deino,
> not clear if you're china-hater
> but clear you're the only image hog
> and NEVER listen to chinese (although very interested in our arms)
> you're just among foreigners who never understand china



Funny ... indeed I might never fully understand the Chinese way of thinking and I'm also well aware that the PLA plays great game of hiding its secrets but I quite well understand to differ facts from fiction at least as long no proof is given.

Therefore, always to believe everything "that is said" even when facing the exact opposite to what one claims can surely be rated "you will never understand", but on the other side it can also be rated as proof for a "lack of understanding on your behalf" since you only believe what you get told regardless the facts. It could in fact be rated as "a stupid one, who believes everything he get told or what fits his opinion".

So in essence again: While you simply believe the J-11B and J-15 as well as J-10B are operating AESA radars and refuse to proof even in contrast to what others say and in strict contrast to what all images show, I stick to what is know and most probable given other reliable sources ... and to my regret I won't rate you a reliable one.


----------



## GriffinsRule

Anyone care to explain why this J-10 is using both the airbrakes and the drogue chute but not the canards for slowing down?
I would have thought that the FBW system would automatically have used the large surface area of the canards as very effective airbrakes as is done with all the euro-canards. 
What am I missing?


----------



## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 610965
> View attachment 610966
> View attachment 610967
> View attachment 610968
> View attachment 610969
> View attachment 610970
> 
> Via @空军在线 from Weixin




From the 63rd Air Brigade


----------



## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo


----------



## LKJ86

J-20, J-16, JL-10, and Su-30MKK







Via @空军发布 from Weixin and @yankeesama的帧察小队 from Weibo


----------



## Deino

The PLAAF has just issued a new guideline for painting aircraft and marking schemes. In an aim to standardize markings and paint schemes to achieve low-visibility all newly produced aircraft are to switch to the new system first, with in-service aircraft repainted in phases.

空军颁发《空军飞机涂装及标识喷涂规定（试行）》 - 中国军网

*Air Force issued "Air Force Aircraft Painting and Marking Spraying Provisions (Trial)*

http://chinamil.com.cn/jmywyl/2020-03/13/content_9767465.htm



> Air Force issued "Air Force Aircraft Painting and Marking Spraying Provisions (Trial)
> 
> The People's Liberation Army News Zou Zhaoxia and Duan Jun reported: In order to further focus on actual combat and matchmaking, according to the relevant provisions of the Military Commission, the Air Force has recently issued the "Air Force Aircraft Painting and Logo Spraying Provisions (Trial)" (hereinafter referred to as the "Provisions").
> 
> It is reported that the low visibility of aircraft painting and marking in the air is a practical requirement and development trend, and the main purpose is to reduce the probability of visual discovery. The newly issued "Regulations" fully implements the requirement that "painting is also combat effectiveness." In accordance with the principle of "uniformity, standardization, low visibility, and operability," clear requirements have been set for the painting and marking of Air Force aircraft.
> 
> The "Draft" drafting team analyzed in-depth domestic and foreign Air Force aircraft painting and marking cases, fully drawing on the opinions of all parties, and ensuring that the "Strict" is scientific, targeted and operable. The "Regulations" are in line with the actual development and construction of Air Force equipment in the current and future periods, and will play an important role in strengthening Air Force aircraft painting and marking management and adapting to actual combat mission requirements.
> 
> The "Regulations" have a total of 5 chapters and 16 articles, which clearly require new production combat aircraft to implement low-visibility coating, uniform marking of active service and old aircraft spraying; standardize national flags, "Chinese Air Force", "Red Cross" and other special mission markings and spraying requirements. Since 2020, the "Provisions" have been promoted and implemented in accordance with the thinking of "integrated planning, step-by-step implementation, easy first, then difficult, and progressive advancement."




Maybe similar to those?


----------



## LKJ86

Deino said:


> View attachment 613351


Would J-11B/BS have a white radome?


----------



## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Would J-11B/BS have a white radome?



I must admit I don't know ... if they really want to reduce the aircraft's visibility, a new grey radome is IMO a must and even more important than merely putting low-viz. grey PLAAF symbols on the wings


----------



## LKJ86

Deino said:


> I must admit I don't know ... if they really want to reduce the aircraft's visibility, a new grey radome is IMO a must and even more important than merely putting low-viz. grey PLAAF symbols on the wings


Do you remember the so-called "J-11BG"?

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Do you remember the so-called "J-11BG"?




Yes for sure ... but I think these new rules shall not only those types with new radars like the J-11BG but also all older J-11As, JH-7s and J-8s with their black radomes.


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> but I think these new rules shall not only those types with new radars like the J-11BG


I think the so-called "J-11BG" we have seen just changes its radome.


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> I think the so-called "J-11BG" we have seen just changes its radome.




Really? ... so no update to an AESA?


----------



## Kompromat

How many J-7s operated by PLAAF right now?


----------



## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Really? ... so no update to an AESA?


IMO, not yet.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> IMO, not yet.



Well, that surprises me ... is this based on discussion "behind the lines"?


----------



## Maxpane

Are j 7 going to be replaced by j 10s?


----------



## Deino

Not exactly sure, where to fit this:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239912019664556032


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Not exactly sure, where to fit this:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1239912019664556032


It is the one from SAC that lost the competition to CAC's J-20.

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> It is the one from SAC that lost the competition to CAC's J-20.




The one in the lower right corner, YES, ... but what is this?


----------



## LKJ86

Deino said:


> The one in the lower right corner, YES, ... but what is this?
> 
> View attachment 614715


Do you think SAC would get what it needed from the beginning?


----------



## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> Do you think SAC would get what it needed from the beginning?




Surely not, my question is; are these two models earlier concept studies for the same requirement - aka the heavy weight fighter - or for another program or simply for fundamental research?


----------



## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Surely not, my question is; are these two models earlier concept studies for the same requirement - aka the heavy weight fighter - or for another program or simply for fundamental research?


It is just the configuration evolution, similar to F-35:

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## Deino

Can anyone help me out with additional information??

via: https://www.weibo.com/1496809922/IzUQqEyim?type=comment







... could be related to this?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1241996055992053760


----------



## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo


----------



## LKJ86

Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 617110
> 
> Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo




Thant made my day!

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## LKJ86

Via @手绘狼群 from Weibo

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## kungfugymnast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 617110
> 
> Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo



Old J8 or Jh7? Should phase out this obsolete plane long ago. Along with J7, these old fighters will be used as decoy in war to divert and create confusion to US when war happens. US won't know where to attack if flocks of these fighters flown in the sky at a time coming from multiple direction while real attacker hiding in between the flocks or for stealth J20 sneak pass while US fighters pursuing decoys.

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## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Old J8 or Jh7? Should phase out this obsolete plane long ago. Along with J7, these old fighters will be used as decoy in war to divert and create confusion to US when war happens. US won't know where to attack if flocks of these fighters flown in the sky at a time coming from multiple direction while real attacker hiding in between the flocks or for stealth J20 sneak pass while US fighters pursuing decoys.




Clearly a J-8 ... IMO a J-8F, but I'm not sure.

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## Deino

By the way ... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1244248638462754816


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## LKJ86

Via @空军在线 from Weixin

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## Deino

Xi'an FA, 1st TrBrig at Jiuquan?


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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo

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## kungfugymnast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 622372
> View attachment 622373
> View attachment 622374
> 
> Via @万全 from Weibo



You're posting this in conjunction of my post on getting rid of the J-8? ,


----------



## LKJ86

kungfugymnast said:


> You're posting this in conjunction of my post on getting rid of the J-8? ,





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 588785
> 
> Via @wanquanfoto from Weibo





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 590941
> 
> Via @东部战区 from Weixin





LKJ86 said:


> J-8
> View attachment 600733
> View attachment 600734
> 
> Via kj.81.cn





LKJ86 said:


> J-8
> View attachment 609968
> View attachment 609969
> View attachment 609970
> View attachment 609971
> View attachment 609972
> View attachment 609973
> View attachment 609974
> View attachment 609975
> View attachment 609976
> View attachment 609977
> 
> Via kj.81.cn





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 611649
> 
> Via @万全 from Weibo





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 616388
> 
> Via @万全 from Weibo





LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 617110
> 
> Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

By 徐树华

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## kungfugymnast

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 622749
> 
> By 徐树华



Post more new fighters, air to air and air to ground armaments. Heard they are coming up with more air to ground weapons now to complete the arsenal.


----------



## LKJ86

Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 626867
> View attachment 626868
> View attachment 626869
> View attachment 626870
> View attachment 626871
> View attachment 626872
> 
> Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin




Nice ... the rarely seen J-7G


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## LKJ86

Via @南部空军 from Weixin

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1255429433537765376

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## LKJ86

By 刘应华

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## LKJ86

Via kj.81.cn

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258031427687534594

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1258031427687534594


Bad news for @Deino


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## kungfugymnast

viva_zhao said:


> Bad news for @Deino



Why bad news? Low visibility paints and markings are ideal especially when getting into visual range with enemy aircraft or ground targets. Having clear bright visible marking could be spotted easier. Imagine you're flying J-10C approaching enemy tanks platoon protected by mobile AAAs


----------



## Deino

kungfugymnast said:


> Why bad news? Low visibility paints and markings are ideal especially when getting into visual range with enemy aircraft or ground targets. Having clear bright visible marking could be spotted easier. Imagine you're flying J-10C approaching enemy tanks platoon protected by mobile AAAs




That was a joke, since he know my obsession for serial numbers!

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## Deino

New serial pattern for the J-8-series?? ... no longer on the fuselage but now on its tail?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1260653265408028672

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## LKJ86

Via @DS北风 from Weibo

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## Beast

I have been to the war military museum in Beijing but never the PLAAF museum. Would love to get there once I have a long vacation.


----------



## LKJ86

Via @DS北风 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @干巴巴的苏霍伊 from Weibo

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## Scorpiooo

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 632240
> View attachment 632241
> View attachment 632242
> View attachment 632243
> 
> Via @DS北风 from Weibo


Which aircraft is this ? Seems very nice in white


----------



## ZeEa5KPul

@Deino maybe you should rename this thread "PLAAF Museum Thread". Look at these antiques.

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## LKJ86

J-7E



































Via @航空工业 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @万全 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

J-8F




Via CCTV 7

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## LKJ86

Via kj.81.cn

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## Deino

Hmm?? J-7E unit 95774 + JJ-7A with 7X5YZ serial?? Any idea?






Could be 7453x and as such 132nd Air Brigade.


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## LKJ86

Via kj.81.cn

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## ZeEa5KPul

This thread is called "PLAAF News and Discussions", why has it become a dumping ground for pictures of PLAAF museum planes?


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## Akasa

ZeEa5KPul said:


> This thread is called "PLAAF News and Discussions", why has it become a dumping ground for pictures of PLAAF museum planes?



Because those "museum planes" happen to encompass a sizeable portion of the PLAAF's backbone. Maybe you're coming to the realization that the PLAAF isn't all that advanced and lean as you thought?


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## ZeEa5KPul

Akasa said:


> Because those "museum planes" happen to encompass a sizeable portion of the PLAAF's backbone.


I don't think so, "Sino"Soldier.


Akasa said:


> Maybe you're coming to the realization that the PLAAF isn't all that advanced and lean as you thought?


It's not as advanced as I would like, but it will be soon enough. What spiteful haters can't accept is that China is advancing faster than any other society in human history and that its rise is unstoppable. If I don't like the way the most backward part of the PLAAF looks today, I'll sure like it in 2030 when the last of these relics is gone. If China can't dispatch the US from the western Pacific, complete the country's reunification, and rule the world as its undisputed superpower today, it sure will be able to in 2040. I'm a patient man, "Sino"Soldier, I have time. More importantly, China has time.

Besides, I'm being too harsh on these planes. They're more than capable of routing an insignificant basket case like India.

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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> This thread is called "PLAAF News and Discussions", why has it become a dumping ground for pictures of PLAAF museum planes?




IMO the most important reason that usually all modern stuff types have their own thread where even regular PLAAF related news like exercises and so on are posted. In the end everything not related to the Flanker types, J-10, J-20, EW/AEW and transports as well as the bombers, which have their own threads is then posted here and these are then only the old types.

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## samsara

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I don't think so, "Sino"Soldier.
> 
> It's not as advanced as I would like, but it will be soon enough. What spiteful haters can't accept is that China is advancing faster than any other society in human history and that its rise is unstoppable. If I don't like the way the most backward part of the PLAAF looks today, I'll sure like it in 2030 when the last of these relics is gone. If China can't dispatch the US from the western Pacific, complete the country's reunification, and rule the world as its undisputed superpower today, it sure will be able to in 2040. I'm a patient man, "Sino"Soldier, I have time. More importantly, China has time.
> 
> Besides, I'm being too harsh on these planes. They're more than capable of routing an insignificant basket case like India.


Something bizarre to observe on how he is active here with the handle "AKASA" and buried his old moniker "SINOSOLDIER" at PDF in the sense not many activities seen here from this account these last few years. I think the explanation is he's caught red-handed several times in spitting out his utter disdain on China under "SinoSoldier", I myself caught him up once, thus he felt the old moniker was no longer effective at PDF for his digging (yes, his specialization is digging) and switched to the other one… while remain active in SDF using the "SINOSOLDIER". Guess he's an IND or Viet pretending to be a Westerner! Anyhow his true color is a genuine China hater!

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## Beast

Akasa said:


> Because those "museum planes" happen to encompass a sizeable portion of the PLAAF's backbone. Maybe you're coming to the realization that the PLAAF isn't all that advanced and lean as you thought?


There are not the backbone. Have you seen them doing active duty like patrolling in Taiwan strait flying in east sea?

They are reduced to mere advance trainer role for pilot to clock supersonic flight or flying hours.

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## Armchair

ZeEa5KPul said:


> I don't think so, "Sino"Soldier.
> 
> It's not as advanced as I would like, but it will be soon enough. What spiteful haters can't accept is that China is advancing faster than any other society in human history and that its rise is unstoppable. If I don't like the way the most backward part of the PLAAF looks today, I'll sure like it in 2030 when the last of these relics is gone. If China can't dispatch the US from the western Pacific, complete the country's reunification, and rule the world as its undisputed superpower today, it sure will be able to in 2040. I'm a patient man, "Sino"Soldier, I have time. More importantly, China has time.
> 
> Besides, I'm being too harsh on these planes. They're more than capable of routing an insignificant basket case like India.



I actually like this aircraft. I would not be surprised of the PLAAF version had BVR missiles which perhaps could be launched by data-link. In any case, still useful for interception with an HMS and HOBS missiles. Not to mention acting as a LIFT for newly minted pilots before flying something like a J-10, J-20, FLANKER series...


----------



## serenity

Backbone of PLAAF is J-11B and J-10 now. Backbone is meaning used the most. J-7 and J-8 operational still in service is numbered much lower than J-11 series combined with J-10 series. We have close to one thousand Su-27, su-30, J-11, J-10. Ignoring J-16 and J-20. Many J-7 converted to unmanned already and many of these J-7 in service are such. Or training purposes.

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## lcloo

Fuel replenishment probe added.
Photo via 马日天 tweeter

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## Deino

lcloo said:


> Fuel replenishment probe added.
> Photo via 马日天 tweeter
> View attachment 646043




But this is just a cut-out of an old image released in April 2018 already?

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## LKJ86

Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

By AVIC

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## LKJ86

Via @刀尖舞者 from Weixin


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## Figaro

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 650611
> View attachment 650612
> View attachment 650613
> View attachment 650614
> 
> Via @刀尖舞者 from Weixin


Besides leaving some as trainer aircraft, they should convert these to drones.


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## siegecrossbow

Figaro said:


> Besides leaving some as trainer aircraft, they should convert these to drones.



I think target drone will be the fate of J-7s. J-7 trainers are too ancient for tracing fifth or even fourth gen pilots.


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## Dustom999

https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/mil...lth-fighter-goes-mass-production-after-thrust

J-20B with TVC enters mass production

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## Deino

Dustom999 said:


> https://amp.scmp.com/news/china/mil...lth-fighter-goes-mass-production-after-thrust
> 
> J-20B with TVC enters mass production




Pure BS report!

Sorry to say so, but either she was bored again or I don't know what again she smoked! 

May I ask how these contradictions fit together?

- again based on her "unknown source close to..." 
- we know since mid-2019 that no J-20 has been built with AL-31FN but are usung WS-10C since then.
- why a TVC-AL-31FN if the WS-10B-3 was demonstrated in Zhuhai 2018 already?
- already in 2018 she noted the J-20 is using the WS-10B (which was wrong then: https://scmp.com/news/china/militar...-stealth-fighters-missile-carrying-capability)
- and even earlier she mentioned the J-20 would already use serial WS-15s. 

That all does not fit and contradicts to all we know.


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## Dustom999

Only time would tell what's what. For now only newspaper articles.


----------



## LKJ86

Via @JacKsonbobo from Weibo


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## Deino

Dustom999 said:


> Only time would tell what's what. For now only newspaper articles.




Is this a reply due to laziness to check the discrepancies of her various reports and contradictions to what we know?


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## Dustom999

Deino said:


> Is this a reply due to laziness to check the discrepancies of her various reports and contradictions to what we know?


Yup!


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## LKJ86

Via @中部战区号角 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

*Xi Jinping inspects PLA aviation university ahead of Army Day*

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## LKJ86

Via @央视军事报道 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @刀尖舞者 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

*空军原司令员王海上将逝世*

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## JSCh

*PLA fighter jet breaks flight duration record in first 10-hour patrol mission to South China Sea*
By Liu Xuanzun Source: Global Times Published: 2020/8/4 18:43:40



Pilots assigned to a naval aviation brigade under the PLA Eastern Theater Command keep their Su-30 fighter jet in a specified airspace while awaiting further clearance during an actual-combat flight training exercise in mid-February, 2020. (eng.chinamil.com.cn/Photo by Li Hengjiang)

By having a Su-30 fighter jet completing a 10-hour armed patrol mission to the most remote islands and reefs of the South China Sea, the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) Air Force recently broke its record on flight duration in a single sortie by a fighter jet.

Both technically and mentally challenging, this kind of mission is of significant strategic value to the PLA's complete patrol coverage of the entire South China Sea, experts said Tuesday.

An aviation force brigade attached to the PLA Southern Theater Command Air Force completed the patrol mission in the South China Sea, mgtv.com, a news website under Hunan Television, reported on Monday.

Dubbed "Thunderbolt Eagle," the brigade's main mission objectives concern the South China Sea, and since a round trip patrol mission from its base to the most remote islands and reefs would need 10 hours, this kind of long endurance mission has become necessary, the report said.

The previous PLA Air Force flight duration record for a single sortie by a fighter jet was 8.5 hours, it said.

According to the report, the Su-30 fighter jet refueled mid-flight with an aerial tanker, and the pilots consumed rations to keep their energy up.

"During a flight, the body reaches a limit at four to five hours, so pilots will relieve stress and fatigue by chatting and eating flight rations, which includes mineral water and chocolate," mgtv.com quoted pilot Lu Geng as saying.

Wang Ying, another pilot on the mission, said in the report that the mission is not about breaking the limit or the record, but about real combat.

Chinese military aviation expert Fu Qianshao told the Global Times that a 10-hour patrol mission is challenging because the fighter jet's fuel capacity cannot support such a long flight, so aerial refueling is needed, which is technically challenging. A long-duration flight is also very stressful to the pilots, as they also need to stay on high alert during their mission.

The mission demonstrated that the PLA Air Force's long-range flight capability and the scope of its patrol operations have greatly expanded, Fu said, noting that large warplanes like H-6 bombers have previously conducted similar missions, but they were not fighter jets.

Fighter jets can escort bombers or conduct surveillance missions on aerial and surface targets on their own. This is of significant value in safeguarding China's national interests and aerial security, Fu said.

The PLA has deployed fighter jets directly to islands in the South China Sea in the past, reports said.

Forbes reported in July that the PLA deployed at least four J-11B fighter jets to Yongxing Island of the Xisha Islands. Previous reports also suggested the presence of J-10 fighter jets and JH-7 fighter bombers on the islands.

Fu said that fighter jets deployed on the islands can react faster, but that maintenance on the islands is more difficult due to high salinity and humidity, and the number of fighter jets would be limited since island bases are relatively small. 

This is why the long-endurance patrol missions from Chinese mainland bases are still important, and both deployment methods can complement each other, Fu said.

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## LKJ86



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## Shahzaz ud din

*Chinese Fighter Pilots Flew A 10-Hour Lap Over South China Sea Islands*
*



*

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## lcloo

AVIC's production plan for 2020, from East Pendulum

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## Figaro

lcloo said:


> AVIC's production plan for 2020, from East Pendulum
> 
> View attachment 659268
> View attachment 659269


As Deino pointed out, the SAC production numbers sound unusually high ... and the CAC numbers seem low (where is the J-10 )


----------



## LKJ86

Via @方晨只想呼呼now from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @贵阳网 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## HRK

LKJ86 said:


>


Summary plz ...


----------



## LKJ86

Via @南部空军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86



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## Windjammer



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## siegecrossbow

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 662183
> View attachment 662184
> View attachment 662185



I feel really bad for this guy. He was a very talented designer but lived in a time when China didn’t have the technical ability to fulfill his designs like the Q-6 for instance. Guys like Song Wencong are at least lucky enough to see their creation realized.

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## ZeEa5KPul

siegecrossbow said:


> I feel really bad for this guy. He was a very talented designer but lived in a time when China didn’t have the technical ability to fulfill his designs like the Q-6 for instance. Guys like Song Wencong are at least lucky enough to see their creation realized.


It's also a bit eerie that he lived 100 years to the day.

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## PeacefulWar

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 662183
> View attachment 662184
> View attachment 662185


Rip.

He lived for exactly 100 years.
It's same day for his birthday and date of death.


----------



## Figaro

ZeEa5KPul said:


> It's also a bit eerie that he lived 100 years to the day.





PeacefulWar said:


> Rip.
> 
> He lived for exactly 100 years.
> It's same day for his birthday and date of death.


I would be totally fine with this arrangement ... dying on your birthday may not be the best thing but considering you're 100, I don't think this matters. The good thing this designer managed to see the PLAAF transition into a world class air force. The founder of the PLAN air craft carrier program, Liu Huaqing, did not even live to see the commissioning of the Liaoning carrier in 2012.


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## PeacefulWar

Figaro said:


> I would be totally fine with this arrangement ... dying on your birthday may not be the best thing but considering you're 100, I don't think this matters. The good thing this designer managed to see the PLAAF transition into a world class air force. The founder of the PLAN air craft carrier program, Liu Huaqing, did not even live to see the commissioning of the Liaoning carrier in 2012.


I just expressed my surprising of the coincidence. 
Nothing else.


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## Deino

PeacefulWar said:


> Rip.
> 
> He lived for exactly 100 years.
> It's same day for his birthday and date of death.





ZeEa5KPul said:


> It's also a bit eerie that he lived 100 years to the day.




Now I'm confused ... I thought Lu Xiaopeng already died on 16 October 2000 ... so yesterday it would have been his 100th anniversary!

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## PeacefulWar

Deino said:


> Now I'm confused ... I thought Lu Xiaopeng already died on 16 October 2000 ... so yesterday it would have been his 100th anniversary!


Damn.
Stupid me.
You are right.
It's 诞辰

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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> Now I'm confused ... I thought Lu Xiaopeng already died on 16 October 2000 ... so yesterday it would have been his 100th anniversary!



It is like how they celebrate Chairman Mao’s birthday.


----------



## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1297137788056371202

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

I couldn't find the bomber thread. But I was wondering ... There's a mention here about a XAC medium fighter-bomber project (rumoured designation JH-19). Was this ever a thing? Is this still a factor? Or has all known bomber development work gone into the next-gen strategic platform?


----------



## Figaro

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> I couldn't find the bomber thread. But I was wondering ... There's a mention here about a XAC medium fighter-bomber project (rumoured designation JH-19). Was this ever a thing? Is this still a factor? Or has all known bomber development work gone into the next-gen strategic platform?


If youre talking about a Su-34 type project, that was under SAC and has long been dead.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Figaro said:


> If youre talking about a Su-34 type project, that was under SAC and has long been dead.


So I guess there's no scope for a smaller manned bomber? China is basically bifurcating between the heavy H-20 on one end, and single-engine UCAVs on the other?


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## Figaro

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:


> So I guess there's no scope for a smaller manned bomber? China is basically bifurcating between the heavy H-20 on one end, and single-engine UCAVs on the other?


There were rumors that a SAC strike fighter (JH-XX) is still in development but no one is sure (there were reports it got cancelled a long time ago). Either way, I'm sure XAC has its plate completely full given the H-20 and the Y-20 variants. More than likely, if a smaller bomber exists, it will be SAC's responsibility.

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## Bilal Khan (Quwa)

Figaro said:


> There were rumors that a SAC strike fighter (JH-XX) is still in development but no one is sure (there were reports it got cancelled a long time ago). Either way, I'm sure XAC has its plate completely full given the H-20 and the Y-20 variants. More than likely, if a smaller bomber exists, it will be SAC's responsibility.


I suppose such a requirement could leak into a 'sixth-gen' platform. So, basically, it wouldn't be a smaller bomber in as much a strike-optimized next-gen fighter. Well, too abstract to talk about right now since there's no conclusive program to this effect as-of-yet. I was just hoping China would fill in a niche on the market with a stealthy small bomber like it has done with the FC-31 and CH-7 for FGFAs and UCAVs, respectively

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## bahadur999

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301784983133138949


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## Figaro

bahadur999 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301784983133138949


This is fake news ... if this was real, world markets and newspapers would be reporting it already. They get information faster than we do

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## Peace be there

Figaro said:


> This is fake news ... if this was real, world markets and newspapers would be reporting it already. They get information faster than we do



Have some patience. It is true, Taiwan shot down Chinese Su35.


----------



## bahadur999

Figaro said:


> This is fake news ... if this was real, world markets and newspapers would be reporting it already. They get information faster than we do


We should indeed wait few hours to verify this info.


----------



## Figaro

Peace be there said:


> Have some patience. It is true, Taiwan shot down Chinese Su35.


Yeah that must be the dream of the Indians right now 


bahadur999 said:


> We should indeed wait few hours to verify this info.


If this is true, the stock market traders would have already known about this. They get information from world events way before we do ... you would see the US stock futures plunging probably 5 to 10% almost instantly. The fact that this has not happened and that major newspapers have not shown this shows it is not true. If you read the Twitter description closely, you will see it was posted by some Indian account.

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## casual

bahadur999 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301784983133138949


dude in the video said something about there's a pilot over there. i can't really understand his accent but i don't think it's taiwanese. this is probably filmed in the mainland.

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## Figaro

https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2647283-1-1.html



Some J-10 crashed, either A or B variant in Guilin. The most likely reason is an AL-31F problem (specifically to do with engine lubrication), which has resulted in numerous crashes before. It looks like that report by one of the SAC aviation insiders of the PLAAF wanted to replace the AL-31Fs for WS-10s as quickly as possible makes a lot of sense now. The good news is the pilot is fine.

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## Deino

Figaro said:


> https://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2647283-1-1.html
> 
> 
> 
> Some J-10 crashed, either A or B variant in Guilin. The most likely reason is an AL-31F problem (specifically to do with engine lubrication), which has resulted in numerous crashes before. It looks like that report by one of the SAC aviation insiders of the PLAAF wanted to replace the AL-31Fs for WS-10s as quickly as possible makes a lot of sense now. The good news is the pilot is fine.




Indeed 


According to stupid reports ... 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301824549017784321

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## vi-va

Deino said:


> Indeed
> 
> 
> According to stupid reports ...
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1301824549017784321


What I heard usually the pilot after ejection will be injured, need quite a few month to recover.

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## LKJ86



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## siegecrossbow

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 666571
> View attachment 666572
> View attachment 666573



Ventral strake on the J-8II is collapsible?


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## GeHAC

siegecrossbow said:


> Ventral strake on the J-8II is collapsible?


Seems yes, basically the same structure on Mig-23


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## Figaro

vi-va said:


> What I heard usually the pilot after ejection will be injured, need quite a few month to recover.


This should not be the case if the ejection is performed properly.


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## FuturePAF

Not sure if this has been discussed earlier or in a separate thread, but any indication China may consider developing its own Supersonic Stealth VTOL aircraft now that they may be building “light carriers” in the form of the Type 076 LHD.

if they work with the Russian Yakovlev company and advance the Yak-141 design (similar to what Lockheed did in the 1990s) they could develop their own version akin to the F-35B, except they could make it manned or unmanned. The unmanned version could form the basis for a Chinese loyal wingman type aircraft and the manned version could allow them to equip their marine forces near a conflict zone while also opening up a product for export along with the Type 076 LHD as a light carrier.

If Pakistan’s economy improves enough during the planes development, a supersonic stealth jump jet maybe an attractive option for the PAF or PN. This maybe especially true in remote areas with limited airbases like the north for the PAF and along the coast or on an LHD for the PN.


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## Figaro

FuturePAF said:


> Not sure if this has been discussed earlier or in a separate thread, but any indication China may consider developing its own Supersonic Stealth VTOL aircraft now that they may be building “light carriers” in the form of the Type 076 LHD.
> 
> if they work with the Russian Yakovlev company and advance the Yak-141 design (similar to what Lockheed did in the 1990s) they could develop their own version akin to the F-35B, except they could make it manned or unmanned. The unmanned version could form the basis for a Chinese loyal wingman type aircraft and the manned version could allow them to equip their marine forces near a conflict zone while also opening up a product for export along with the Type 076 LHD as a light carrier.
> 
> If Pakistan’s economy improves enough during the planes development, a supersonic stealth jump jet maybe an attractive option for the PAF or PN. This maybe especially true in remote areas with limited airbases like the north for the PAF and along the coast or on an LHD for the PN.


IIRC, China invested in VTOL research many years ago and found that the benefits were not worth the massive developmental cost and effort. Especially with the prospect of the 076 being fitted with EM catapults, the possibility of a VTOL in development is near zero unfortunately.

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1302483470996910081


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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 670713
> 
> Via @西部空天 from Weixin




Ähhm ... what LGB is this? It looks smaller than the regular the TG-250 is in PLAAF service?


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## LKJ86

Deino said:


> Ähhm ... what LGB is this? It looks smaller than the regular the TG-250 is in PLAAF service?










Via @鼎盛沙龙 from Weibo


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## Tair-Lahoti

China's air force has released a video showing nuclear-capable H-6 bombers carrying out a simulated attack on what appears to be Andersen Air Force Base on the U.S. Pacific island of Guam, as regional tensions rise. The video, released on Saturday on the People's Liberation Army Air Force Weibo account, came as China carried out a second day of drills near Chinese-claimed Taiwan, to express anger at the visit of a senior U.S. State Department official to Taipei.

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## 52051

H-6 with 4 YJ-12 missiles

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## LKJ86

Y-7










Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @B-612-015 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1320723666821402625
PS: https://m.yangshipin.cn/video?type=0&vid=g000072esly


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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin


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## LKJ86

Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @秋秋Q30 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

*Nov 11 marks the 71st founding anniversary of the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force *

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## LKJ86

Via @-風行雲上- from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @涡轮喷气蛋 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @SS7D-0027 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 687432
> 
> Via @-風行雲上- from Weibo







Via @-風行雲上- from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

PLAAF's "Golden Helmet-2020" air combat competition has begun!!!

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## siegecrossbow

LKJ86 said:


> PLAAF's "Golden Helmet-2020" air combat competition has begun!!!
> View attachment 690837



Why did they wait till November this year?


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## LKJ86

siegecrossbow said:


> Why did they wait till November this year?


How about last year? the year before last? and so on?


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## siegecrossbow

LKJ86 said:


> How about last year? the year before last? and so on?



You are right. Looks like they’ve always been held near the end of the year. I guess it is sort of like a final exam.


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## Deino

https://twitter.com/RupprechtDeino/status/1332948117382160384


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## samsara

*From Hua Chunying 华春莹 @SpokespersonCHN on 2020.11.29:*

_According to the #SouthChinaSea *Strategic Situation Probing Initiative*, the #US military sent 3 reconnaissance aircraft to the South China Sea on a surveillance mission on Nov. 28. One of them used a *fake transponder code*.




_


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1333041772696571904
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*List of airliner shootdown incidents (notable cases)*

In the history of *commercial aviation*, there have been many airliner shootdown incidents which have been caused intentionally or by accident. These are the select cases meant to document instances where airliners have been brought down by gunfire or missile attacks.

*Some notable commercial airliner shootdown with big death casualties in the last several decades:*

• *1983: Korean Air Lines Flight 007 (Boeing 747)*, shot down by a Soviet aircraft over Sakhalin Island, death casualties: *269* passengers and crew, including US congressman Larry McDonald.

• *1988: Iran Air Flight 655 (Airbus A300B2-203)*, flew from Bandar Abbas, Iran to Dubai, UAE, shot down by a missile fired from a U.S. warship, death casualties: *290* passengers and crew.

• *2014: Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 (Boeing 777-200ER)*, from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur, shot down in the airspace over Ukraine, death casualties: all *283* passengers and 15 crew.

• *2020: Ukraine International Airlines Flight 752 (Boeing 737-8KV)*, from Tehran to Kiev, shot down in Tehran air space by Iranian air defense during the 2019–2020 Persian Gulf crisis, five days after the assassination of the Iranian General Qasem Soleimani by USA, death casualties: all *176* passengers and crew.

For the more complete list, see:




__





List of airliner shootdown incidents - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





And it seems that Malaysian Airlines is again the preferred pick of the US military for the impersonated cases seeing from the past Chinese complaints within 2020!

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## LKJ86



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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 691871
> 
> View attachment 691872




18th Air Brigade ...


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## LKJ86



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## samsara

LKJ86 said:


>


Very Good footage  contains historical segment too in this micro clip by the Nat'l Def.

*Watching this footage, among other things, it comes to my thoughts that those past things like the Chongqing flattening, Yalu bombing, etc will never, never be allowed again in the China's journeys onwards!*

Cool song as well! 😍

《顶天立地真英雄》「国防微视频-军歌嘹亮」20201111 | 军迷天下
顶天立地真英雄
作词：轩文
作曲：王超
演唱：支予

支予 - 顶天立地真英雄(庆祝人民空军成立71周年空军歌曲)_MV频道_酷狗网





支予 - 顶天立地真英雄(庆祝人民空军成立71周年空军歌曲)_MV频道_酷狗网







www.kugou.com

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## samsara

Via by78 /SDF:
*Various China's aerial and space assets in one chart*
_Graphic by Peter Wood | Objects not to scale | All altitudes are based on public estimates_







As commented by Bltizo there:

the fuselages of KJ-200 and KJ-500 should be of the same size as both being the same Y-8 cat III / Y-9 airframe.
Yilong is better called as "Wing Loong I" for consistency with Wing Loong II - -- or better again just called GJ-1 and GJ-2 respectively

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## siegecrossbow

samsara said:


> Via by78 /SDF:
> *Various China's aerial and space assets in one chart*
> _Graphic by Peter Wood | Objects not to scale | All altitudes are based on public estimates_
> 
> View attachment 694242
> 
> 
> As commented by Bltizo there:
> 
> the fuselages of KJ-200 and KJ-500 should be of the same size as both being the same Y-8 cat III / Y-9 airframe.
> Yilong is better called as "Wing Loong I" for consistency with Wing Loong II - -- or better again just called GJ-1 and GJ-2 respectively



Guess they didn’t know where to put the WZ-8 drone.


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## LKJ86

J-8III made its maiden flight on December 12, 1993




Via @航空工业 from Weibo

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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1341325482323828736

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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

H-6K










Via @南部空军 from Weixin

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## vi-va

LKJ86 said:


>


weibo @彩云香江

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## samsara

From OedoSoldier @OedoSoldier on 2021.01.07:

*PLA Army Tibetan Military District Training for a certain air brigade*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347134799622795270


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## Deino

LKJ86 said:


> J10C0419
> View attachment 704799
> 
> Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo




Oh I would love to see this J-10C's afterburner nozzles, since from Batch 042x on they were using Taihangs.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## samsara

From Eva 郑 عائشة @evazhengll on 2021.01.10:

*P神预测贴*
_(lit. a god or deity's prediction)_







__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347962526940733442

*The Forecast & Speculation by peishen2020 on China's aircraft development for the 14th Five-Year Plan (dated on 2021-01-09):*

_The 2021 is the first year of the 14th Five-Year Plan. This post is to discuss the forecast and speculation of China's aircraft development in the next five years. Just “floor tiles lead to jade” “只是地砖引玉” (I don't really get this phrase, but I guess it means "basic or limited revealed info"). *Let's talk about it, and add more info so I can get 500,000 yuan*  [what a cool persuasion to other fellow members while carrying a big stick...  lol]_

1) Fighter Aircraft

• The first flight of *J-20B two-seater* multipurpose model in 2021

• The first flight of *J-20C* modified fighter with *WS-15 engine (Emei)* in 2022

• The first flight of *J-15B* _electromagnetic catapult c_arrier-based fighter in 2021

• The first flight of the _next generation carrier-based fighter_ (*new naval type*) in 2021

• The first flight of *J-15BD* electromagnetic catapult carrier-based *electronic warfare* aircraft in 2023

• The first flight of *J-20BD* _two-seater electronic warfare_ model in 2025


2) Helicopters / Rotor-Wing Aircraft

• The first flight of *AC-313A,* *14-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2022

• The first flight of *Z-20* special combat *10-ton* _special operations/assault_ helicopter in 2022

• The first flight of *Z-X8, 14~15-ton* heavy military helicopter (_military version of AC-313A_) in 2023

• The first flight of the _next generation of 10-ton heavy armed helicopter_ in 2022

• The first flight of *AC-332, 4-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2022

• The first flight of *AC-322, 2~3-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2023

• The first flight of *AC-352, 7-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2023

• The first flight of the *heavy military helicopter* of the *35~40-ton class* in 2025

• The first flight of a _large tiltrotor demonstrator_ aircraft in 2023

• The first flight of a _high-speed propulsion full-scale verification aircraft_ in 2025


3) Drones / Bombers

• The first flight of the last improved model of the H-6, i.e. *H-6X*, in 2021

• The first flight of the *H-20* subsonic stealth long-range strategic bomber in 2023

• The first flight of the _long-range stealth attack aircraft, a strategic and tactical strike aircraft for the Navy and Air Force_, in 2024

• The first flight of the *攻击-20 *_(“Gongji-20” / “GJ-20” ??)_ _long-range stealth integrated ground attack_ aircraft in 2023

• The first flight of the Rainbow-7 / *CH-7 *stealth attack aircraft in 2021

• The first flight of the *Tengdun / TD UAV*, a large commercial drone with a load of *20 tons*, in 2023


4) Special Aircraft

?

5) Civil / Passenger Aircraft

• The first flight of the *CR-929*, a _large long-haul, wide-body twinjet passenger plane_, in 2025

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just like each of us, some netizen commented: _How good were Peishen's predictions? _

The straight answer, just give it some time and see, some of the predictions will reveal themselves within 2021!


_*Twin-seat variation & domestic engine-equipped version of J-20 make official appearances (2021-01-10)*_








Twin-seat variation & domestic engine-equipped version of J-20 make official appearances - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn





_Z-20 to be China's most-delivered military helicopter, multiple variants expected (2020-11-19)_




__





Z-20 to be China's most-delivered military helicopter, multiple variants expected - Global Times







www.globaltimes.cn

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## Deino

Not sure where to put this is or if anyone is interested in it, but hushkit.net made an interview with me - in fact one, I enjoyed a lot - on the PLAAF and the Chinese aviation industry:

*Everything you always wanted to know about Chinese air power (but were afraid to ask) – Interview with Andreas Rupprecht*









Everything you always wanted to know about Chinese air power (but were afraid to ask) – Interview with Andreas Rupprecht


Few have written more on the subject of Chinese air power than Andreas Rupprecht. We grilled him on the hottest topics in that most dynamic of subjects, Chinese warplanes. China appears to be produ…




hushkit.net






And again as usual: I'm always open for any comment and even more for critics.

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## samsara

Deino said:


> Not sure where to put this is or if anyone is interested in it, but hushkit.net made an interview with me - in fact one, I enjoyed a lot - on the PLAAF and the Chinese aviation industry:
> 
> *Everything you always wanted to know about Chinese air power (but were afraid to ask) – Interview with Andreas Rupprecht*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything you always wanted to know about Chinese air power (but were afraid to ask) – Interview with Andreas Rupprecht
> 
> 
> Few have written more on the subject of Chinese air power than Andreas Rupprecht. We grilled him on the hottest topics in that most dynamic of subjects, Chinese warplanes. China appears to be produ…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hushkit.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And again as usual: I'm always open for any comment and even more for critics.


Deino, all round it's a very good explanation... covering so many aspects, balanced explanations within the constraints of many unknowns.... EXCEPT one thing.

I wish that you would have not put that concluding remark that have downed the J-20 so much vis-à-vis the F-22 and also the J-11B like below. Which you did in the case of the J-10C. And both cases have so many unknowns.

_"So in conclusion, I am sure the J-20 is *no worse than* a J-11B in all areas of performance, but certainly – especially with the current interim engines – it does *not come close* to a F-22. I do not presume to make any further judgment."_

Frankly, the conclusion on the J-20 has discouraged myself from passing this otherwise very good reading with any one beyond this forum. Honestly, it's a thing that I also regret for as I said above, all round this article is very good but that concluding line on J-20 is "too harsh", at least for myself. To put it in a simple remark: I cannot share it by omitting that "poisonous" line, but I am also not able to share it with that "poisonous" line intact -- which is of my regret too, for the remaining parts -- indeed the majority -- of this long enough article, covering many aspects, is very good and covering so many interesting things.

Yeah, well, hopefully one day in future your appraisal will be more positive on the J-20!

Btw there's a small typo there, the chief designer should be Song Wencong but it's written as Song Wecong.



*I’m still going to ask you…how does the J-20 compare to the F-22?*

Only the PLAAF and CAC know this for sure as such, I have to admit I don’t like questions like that. On the one hand because it is not my area of expertise and on the other hand because there is hardly any information available that enables an assessment. I also dare to doubt whether I could do this at all. For me, the question is more how the J-20 compares to its predecessor in PLAAF service and even more so, how the J-20 evolved. With this in mind, I am convinced that the F-22 was actually the benchmark for CAC but I am also convinced that it was clear to CAC that developing a twin-engine heavy fighter and a stealth aircraft for the first time after the J-10 would be a huge challenge. All of this coupled with the knowledge that one has hardly any experience in this area and, above all, that the engines will still only be temporary solutions. On the other hand, it has been around 15 years since the development of the F-22 and a lot has happened in China in the area of electronics, sensors and materials since then. But, it’s important to note that the predecessor of the J-20 in PLAAF service is the ‘Flanker’ and this came from a completely different period, was for a completely different requirement and was designed by a company with vastly more experience. *So in conclusion, I am sure the J-20 is no worse than a J-11B in all areas of performance, but certainly – especially with the current interim engines – it does not come close to a F-22. I do not presume to make any further judgment.*


_Now compared to explanation given on the J-10C..._

*How capable is the J-10C compared to Western types?* 

Once again a comparative question! Oh well, well I must give a brief answer given the paucity of reliable (or even official) information and even more since I hate such ‘4th Generation’ or even 4+ or 4++ generation discussions, these are just for fan-boys and the more or less uninformed public but in real life other factors are more important than an additional +. *Therefore I refuse to give a clear statement like* _“it is better than the F-16”_ or _“it is on a par with the Eurofighter or Rafale”_. But I think from what is known, given the weapons we have seen, the systems, like its IRST and the AESA-radar, it is comparable to the latest Western generation. Surely its powerplant is (or at _was_ for a long time) its Achilles heel. It seems to have, in comparison with the Rafale and Typhoon, a smaller weapons load, especially in terms of the number of weapons stations and overall load carrying capability. How effective its netcentric capabilities are is simply not known.

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## Deino

samsara said:


> Deino, all round it's a very good explanation... covering so many aspects, balanced explanations within the constraints of many unknowns.... EXCEPT one thing.
> 
> I wish that you would have not put that concluding remark that have downed the J-20 so much vis-à-vis the F-22 like below. Which you did in the case of the J-10C. And both cases have so many unknowns.
> 
> _"So in conclusion, I am sure the J-20 is no worse than a J-11B in all areas of performance, but certainly – especially with the current interim engines – it does not come close to a F-22. I do not presume to make any further judgment."_
> 
> Frankly, the conclusion on the J-20 has discouraged myself from passing this otherwise very good reading with any one beyond this forum. Honestly, it's a thing that I also regret for as I said above, all round this article is very good but that concluding line on J-20 is "too harsh", at least for myself. To put it in a simple remark: I cannot share it by omitting that "poisonous" line, but I am also not able to share it with that "poisonous" line intact.
> 
> Yeah, well, hopefully one day in future your appraisal will be more positive on the J-20!
> 
> Btw there's a small typo there, the chief designer should be Song Wencong but it's written as Song Wecong.
> 
> 
> 
> *I’m still going to ask you…how does the J-20 compare to the F-22?*
> 
> Only the PLAAF and CAC know this for sure as such, I have to admit I don’t like questions like that. On the one hand because it is not my area of expertise and on the other hand because there is hardly any information available that enables an assessment. I also dare to doubt whether I could do this at all. For me, the question is more how the J-20 compares to its predecessor in PLAAF service and even more so, how the J-20 evolved. With this in mind, I am convinced that the F-22 was actually the benchmark for CAC but I am also convinced that it was clear to CAC that developing a twin-engine heavy fighter and a stealth aircraft for the first time after the J-10 would be a huge challenge. All of this coupled with the knowledge that one has hardly any experience in this area and, above all, that the engines will still only be temporary solutions. On the other hand, it has been around 15 years since the development of the F-22 and a lot has happened in China in the area of electronics, sensors and materials since then. But, it’s important to note that the predecessor of the J-20 in PLAAF service is the ‘Flanker’ and this came from a completely different period, was for a completely different requirement and was designed by a company with vastly more experience. *So in conclusion, I am sure the J-20 is no worse than a J-11B in all areas of performance, but certainly – especially with the current interim engines – it does not come close to a F-22. I do not presume to make any further judgment.*
> 
> 
> _Now compared to explanation given on the J-10C..._
> 
> *How capable is the J-10C compared to Western types?*
> 
> Once again a comparative question! Oh well, well I must give a brief answer given the paucity of reliable (or even official) information and even more since I hate such ‘4th Generation’ or even 4+ or 4++ generation discussions, these are just for fan-boys and the more or less uninformed public but in real life other factors are more important than an additional +. *Therefore I refuse to give a clear statement like* _“it is better than the F-16”_ or _“it is on a par with the Eurofighter or Rafale”_. But I think from what is known, given the weapons we have seen, the systems, like its IRST and the AESA-radar, it is comparable to the latest Western generation. Surely its powerplant is (or at _was_ for a long time) its Achilles heel. It seems to have, in comparison with the Rafale and Typhoon, a smaller weapons load, especially in terms of the number of weapons stations and overall load carrying capability. How effective its netcentric capabilities are is simply not known.




Thanks a lot for your comment my friend and especially your open critic. I must admit, YES you are correct it sounded in the way he edited it much harsher than it was meant (maybe my English is still not good enough) but overall it was never meant to downrate the J-20 but simply - based on what I learned over years on the F-22 - based on the fact that the Raptor is still a different league of a fighter. 

And a final note I would like to add: you must always consider what's the opinion of such a public forum's readership.... 

Anyway, I really appreciate you comment and try to form my sentences much more careful next time.

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## ZeEa5KPul

Oi! @Deino, what is this shite?


> I’m still going to ask you…how does the J-20 compare to the F-22?
> 
> Only the PLAAF and CAC know this for sure as such, I have to admit I don’t like questions like that. On the one hand because it is not my area of expertise and on the other hand because there is hardly any information available that enables an assessment. I also dare to doubt whether I could do this at all. For me, the question is more how the J-20 compares to its predecessor in PLAAF service and even more so, how the J-20 evolved. With this in mind, I am convinced that the F-22 was actually the benchmark for CAC but I am also convinced that it was clear to CAC that developing a twin-engine heavy fighter and a stealth aircraft for the first time after the J-10 would be a huge challenge. All of this coupled with the knowledge that one has hardly any experience in this area and, above all, that the engines will still only be temporary solutions. On the other hand, it has been around 15 years since the development of the F-22 and a lot has happened in China in the area of electronics, sensors and materials since then. But, it’s important to note that the predecessor of the J-20 in PLAAF service is the ‘Flanker’ and this came from a completely different period, was for a completely different requirement and was designed by a company with vastly more experience. So in conclusion, *I am sure the J-20 is no worse than a J-11B* in all areas of performance, but certainly – especially with the current interim engines – *it does not come close to a F-22*. I do not presume to make any further judgment.











Everything you always wanted to know about Chinese air power (but were afraid to ask) – Interview with Andreas Rupprecht


Few have written more on the subject of Chinese air power than Andreas Rupprecht. We grilled him on the hottest topics in that most dynamic of subjects, Chinese warplanes. China appears to be produ…




hushkit.net




"Does not come close to a F-22" does it? U wot m8? Do you think F-22s have Romulan invisibility cloaks? I can buy that the J-20 needs a bit of kinematic oomph from the WS-15, and rear RCS needed cleaning up with nozzle serrations, but does not come close?


Deino said:


> but overall it was never meant to downrate the J-20 but simply - based on what I learned over years on the F-22 - based on the *fact *that the Raptor is still a different league of a fighter.


You're still doing it! 
What "fact" would that be? LockMart fanboys' delusional claims? Why wouldn't a WS-15 equipped J-20 be in the F-22s league?
Put a picture of the F-22 and a picture of the J-20 side by side and show me where the J-20 is inferior in terms of construction, fit and finish, etc.

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## siegecrossbow

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Oi! @Deino, what is this shite?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Everything you always wanted to know about Chinese air power (but were afraid to ask) – Interview with Andreas Rupprecht
> 
> 
> Few have written more on the subject of Chinese air power than Andreas Rupprecht. We grilled him on the hottest topics in that most dynamic of subjects, Chinese warplanes. China appears to be produ…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hushkit.net
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "Does not come close to a F-22" does it? U wot m8? Do you think F-22s have Romulan invisibility cloaks? I can buy that the J-20 needs a bit of kinematic oomph from the WS-15, and rear RCS needed cleaning up with nozzle serrations, but does not come close?
> 
> You're still doing it!
> What "fact" would that be? LockMart fanboys' delusional claims? Why wouldn't a WS-15 equipped J-20 be in the F-22s league?
> Put a picture of the F-22 and a picture of the J-20 side by side and show me where the J-20 is inferior in terms of construction, fit and finish, etc.



Let’s wait until the WS-15 is actually in service before making such claims. I’d prefer modest assessments rather than asinine boasts in the same line as how Rafales can dominate the world.

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## Deino

ZeEa5KPul said:


> Oi! @Deino, what is this shite?
> ....




The fact does it not please your opinion does not matter that the F-20 even if older is still a league of its own. As such it was my intention to give a rationale and rather realistic - or as @siegecrossbow noted - modest assessment and not to hype it. My intention was never to please the fan-boys. 

But if you like, let's argue instead of simply call it shit! (by the way written without an "e")

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## ZeEa5KPul

siegecrossbow said:


> I’d prefer modest assessments rather than asinine boasts in the same line as how Rafales can dominate the world.


I'd prefer accurate assessments. Where was there a boast of any kind in my post, let alone anything like the sewage Indians spew?


Deino said:


> But if you like, let's argue


Absolutely! Let's. I don't see that there's much to debate with your interview given that you didn't present any reasoning, just your gut feel because America "must" be more advanced, even though the J-20 has a decades long second mover advantage, but I'll try. I'll start with the canard canard. I don't buy the argument that this




is a problem, but this




isn't. Take a look at such details as the leading edge flap joints in the F-22 and J-20 and tell me what the J-20 gives up in quality.

Btw, "shite" is a British vernacular as a slightly more polite form of "shit", when the intention is to be more humorous than insulting.

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## CIA Mole

Is TVC alternative to canard? Or they serve different purpose?


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## siegecrossbow

CIA Mole said:


> Is TVC alternative to canard? Or they serve different purpose?



Different purpose entirely.

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## vi-va

CIA Mole said:


> Is TVC alternative to canard? Or they serve different purpose?


canard provide extra lift itself, balance weight, more importantly create _vortex_ which create more lift.












Canard (aeronautics) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org

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## LKJ86



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## kungfugymnast

vi-va said:


> weibo @彩云香江
> View attachment 704023
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 704024



Turns out to be this old obsolete bomber instead of H-20


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## samsara

samsara said:


> From Eva 郑 عائشة @evazhengll on 2021.01.10:
> 
> *P神预测贴*
> _(lit. a god or deity's prediction)_
> 
> View attachment 705733
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1347962526940733442
> 
> *The Forecast & Speculation by peishen2020 on China's aircraft development for the 14th Five-Year Plan (dated on 2021-01-09):*
> 
> _The 2021 is the first year of the 14th Five-Year Plan. This post is to discuss the forecast and speculation of China's aircraft development in the next five years. Just “floor tiles lead to jade” “只是地砖引玉” (I don't really get this phrase, but I guess it means "basic or limited revealed info"). *Let's talk about it, and add more info so I can get 500,000 yuan*  [what a cool persuasion to other fellow members while carrying a big stick...  lol]_
> 
> 1) Fighter Aircraft
> 
> • The first flight of *J-20B two-seater* multipurpose model in 2021
> 
> • The first flight of *J-20C* modified fighter with *WS-15 engine (Emei)* in 2022
> 
> • The first flight of *J-15B* _electromagnetic catapult c_arrier-based fighter in 2021
> 
> • The first flight of the _next generation carrier-based fighter_ (*new naval type*) in 2021
> 
> • The first flight of *J-15BD* electromagnetic catapult carrier-based *electronic warfare* aircraft in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of *J-20BD* _two-seater electronic warfare_ model in 2025
> 
> 
> 2) Helicopters / Rotor-Wing Aircraft
> 
> • The first flight of *AC-313A,* *14-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2022
> 
> • The first flight of *Z-20* special combat *10-ton* _special operations/assault_ helicopter in 2022
> 
> • The first flight of *Z-X8, 14~15-ton* heavy military helicopter (_military version of AC-313A_) in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of the _next generation of 10-ton heavy armed helicopter_ in 2022
> 
> • The first flight of *AC-332, 4-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2022
> 
> • The first flight of *AC-322, 2~3-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of *AC-352, 7-ton* advanced civil helicopter in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of the *heavy military helicopter* of the *35~40-ton class* in 2025
> 
> • The first flight of a _large tiltrotor demonstrator_ aircraft in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of a _high-speed propulsion full-scale verification aircraft_ in 2025
> 
> 
> 3) Drones / Bombers
> 
> • The first flight of the last improved model of the H-6, i.e. *H-6X*, in 2021
> 
> • The first flight of the *H-20* subsonic stealth long-range strategic bomber in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of the _long-range stealth attack aircraft, a strategic and tactical strike aircraft for the Navy and Air Force_, in 2024
> 
> • The first flight of the *攻击-20 *_(“Gongji-20” / “GJ-20” ??)_ _long-range stealth integrated ground attack_ aircraft in 2023
> 
> • The first flight of the Rainbow-7 / *CH-7 *stealth attack aircraft in 2021
> 
> • The first flight of the *Tengdun / TD UAV*, a large commercial drone with a load of *20 tons*, in 2023
> 
> 
> 4) Special Aircraft
> 
> ?
> 
> 5) Civil / Passenger Aircraft
> 
> • The first flight of the *CR-929*, a _large long-haul, wide-body twinjet passenger plane_, in 2025
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> Just like each of us, some netizen commented: _How good were Peishen's predictions? _
> 
> The straight answer, just give it some time and see, some of the predictions will reveal themselves within 2021!
> 
> 
> _*Twin-seat variation & domestic engine-equipped version of J-20 make official appearances (2021-01-10)*_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Twin-seat variation & domestic engine-equipped version of J-20 make official appearances - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _Z-20 to be China's most-delivered military helicopter, multiple variants expected (2020-11-19)_
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Z-20 to be China's most-delivered military helicopter, multiple variants expected - Global Times
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.globaltimes.cn


By sinophilia /SDF

*ORGANIZING BY YEAR for simpler reading* as the years go by! (Assuming we find out the reliability of the user and/or realize some of the predictions soon.)

*2021: 5 new aircraft = 3 variants + 2 clean-sheet designs*

H-6X bomber
J-20B two-seater fighter
J-35 carrier-based fighter
J-15B EM-catapult carrier-based fighter
Rainbow-7 / CH-7 stealth attack aircraft
*2022: 5 new aircraft = 1 variant + 4 clean-sheet designs*

J-20C with WS-15
AC-313A, 14-ton advanced civil helicopter
Z-20 special combat 10-ton special operations/assault helicopter
Next generation of 10-ton heavy armed helicopter
AC-332, 4-ton advanced civil helicopter
*2023: 8 new aircraft = 1 variant + 7 clean-sheet designs*

H-20 subsonic stealth long-range strategic bomber
J-15BD electromagnetic catapult carrier-based electronic warfare
Z-X8, 14~15-ton heavy military helicopter (military version of AC-313A)
AC-322, 2~3-ton advanced civil helicopter
AC-352, 7-ton advanced civil helicopter
Large tiltrotor demonstrator aircraft
攻击-20 (“Gongji-20” / “GJ-20” ??) long-range stealth integrated ground attack aircraft
Tengdun / TD UAV, a large commercial drone with a load of 20 tons
*2024: 1 new aircraft = 0 variants + 1 clean-sheet design*

long-range stealth attack aircraft, a strategic and tactical strike aircraft for the Navy and Air Force
*2025: 3 new aircraft = 0 variants + 3 clean-sheet designs*

CR-929, a large long-haul, wide-body twinjet passenger plane
J-20BD two-seater electronic warfare model
Heavy military helicopter of the 35~40-ton class
High-speed propulsion full-scale verification aircraft
So apparently, 5 bombers/attacks, 4 fighters (2 carrier-based), 5 military helicopters, 1 tiltrotor, 2 EW (1 carrier-based), 1 civil passenger plane, 4 civil helicopters.
For a total of 22 aircraft (17 clean-sheet designs), 18 of which (13 clean-sheet designs) in the next < 3 years.
So, this seems beyond the wildest wet dreams of any fanboy of any military ever. Here is to hoping!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

_Needless to say that above "predictions" should be taken with a grain of salt... but we may verify first with the 2021 to see which one comes to the fruitful. Until that moment, we'll park the info here... just keep in mind!_

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## LKJ86



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## samsara

*China-US rivalry: how the Gulf War sparked Beijing’s military revolution*

• In 1991, the People’s Liberation Army was ‘backwards’ compared to the might of America, experts say

• But the US’s demolition of Iraq ignited a modernisation programme that has turned the PLA into a modern, technology-driven fighting force

*By Liu Zhen* in Beijing | The South China Morning Post
Published: 8:00am, 18 Jan, 2021







Iraq had no answer to America’s massive air power during the Gulf War. Photo: Getty Images

*MONDAY (2021-01-18) MARKS **THE 30TH ANNIVERSARY** OF OPERATION DESERT STORM,* when American-led coalition forces invaded Iraq. The Gulf War sparked 30 YEARS OF CHAOS AND TURMOIL in the once powerful Middle Eastern country but also served as a RUDE AWAKENING for China’s military leaders.

With the technology and firepower on show during the conflict – precision bombing, satellite guidance, missile interception, air-to-surface strike to eliminate tanks, electronic warfare, one-way transparency on the battlefield, stealth bombers – *the Gulf War was a “psychological nuclear attack” on China*, observers say.

The event helped to KICK START China’s MILITARY MODERNISATION and led to the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) narrowing the gap with the US military so much that it is now considered a “STRATEGIC THREAT”.

Desert Storm, which lasted six weeks, marked the dawn of a warfare revolution, showed the BACKWARDNESS of the PLA at that time and sparked anxiety regarding national security, experts say.

_“It showed China HOW A WAR should be fought and forced the Chinese military to SKIP the mechanised stage and JUMP STRAIGHT to develop information technologies,”_ said Ni Lexiong, a Shanghai-based military expert.

_“From military theories to the building of the army, to the weapons and equipment, to the relevant technologies, we realised it was ALL DECADES BEHIND the Americans.”_





Troops from the US 1st Cavalry Division are deployed across the Saudi desert during preparations for the Gulf War. Photo: AP

Antony Wong Tong, a Macau-based military analyst, said old PLA doctrines like _“People’s war”_ were PROVEN OUTDATED by the Gulf War, and showed that after the 1989 Tiananmen turmoil, China had once again become an imaginary enemy of the US, which made the problem more imminent for Beijing.

_“SINCE THE 1990s the PLA has thoroughly SWITCHED to the path of professionalisation and modernisation,”_ he said.

THE YEAR 1991 saw the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War, and the military and political pressure on China dramatically increased. Aware of its own vulnerability and weakness, China adopted a “keeping a low profile and biding time” approach to diplomacy, while putting all of its effort into development.

IN THE AFTERSHOCK OF THE GULF WAR, then Chinese leader Jiang Zemin began to promote the idea that the PLA should focus on building _“modern regional warfare capabilities under hi-tech conditions”_, _“complete the dual historical tasks of mechanisation and informationisation”_ and _“achieve the modernisation of the army BY LEAPS FORWARD”_, according to Tang Zhichao, who specialises in Middle East studies at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences.

According to Hong Kong-based military commentator Song Zhongping, China used the hi-tech American weapons it had seen in the war – like precision missiles, missile defence systems and stealth warplanes – as a GUIDEBOOK for its development. Tactics like JOINT OPERATIONS between different forces and the organisation and TECHNOLOGIES needed to realise them were also given great attention.




> *We translated a lot of the US military’s operational regulations and military reports, and began to build the army by copying their models and standards*
> *Jin Yinan, retired PLA major general*



Retired PLA major general Jin Yinan spoke of the impact the war had had in his memoir.

_“At one point, we translated a lot of the US military’s operational regulations and military reports, and began to build the army by copying their models and standards.”_

Indeed, just as the proverb says: _"imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"_.

*Under Jiang Zemin, the PLA slashed 700,000 troops in the 1990s and 2000s. In 2015, Chinese President Xi Jinping cut a further 300,000 and initiated MASSIVE RESTRUCTURING and a REFORM of the command chain.*

The military’s budget *started rising fast in 1999* with double-digit growth for more than a decade, in line with the soaring Chinese economy. By 2019, China’s annual defence spending was the second-biggest in the world, reaching US$176 billion, compared to America’s US$732 billion. Beijing allocated a budget of US$178.6 billion for 2020 [compared to US's approximately $721.5 billion].





A Tomahawk cruise missile lights up the night sky as it is fired from the USS Wisconsin during the Gulf War in January 1991. Photo: AP

The Chinese army last year announced the* completion of the mechanisation of its Ground Force*. But even before then the PLA was ahead of the US in some areas, like shipbuilding, land-based conventional missiles and integrated air defence systems, according to the *Pentagon’s 2020 *_*“China Military Power Report”*_.

*The PLA Navy is the world’s second largest after the US by total displacement.* It has about 350 ships and submarines, including more than 130 major surface combatants. The US Navy has 293 ships. Moreover, most of China’s best ships were built after 2010 so feature the latest equipment and technologies.

*By comparison, IN 1991,* the PLA Navy was a near-shore defence force whose largest ship was a 3,600-tonne destroyer Type 051.

*The PLA Air Force is now the third largest in the world,* with more than 2,500 aircraft and about 2,000 combat aircraft, most of which are third- and fourth-generation warplanes, comparable to Western air forces. China is only the second country in the world to have developed a fifth-generation stealth fighter, the J-20.





China is only the second country in the world to have developed a fifth-generation stealth fighter, the J-20. Photo: AFP

IN 1991, the best planes in the PLA Air Force were the J-7 – developed from a 1950s’s MiG-21 – and the domestically developed J-8, both of which were second-generation. The US aircraft involved in the Gulf War were mostly fourth-generation F15s, F-16s and F/A-18s, while the military decided Lockheed Martin’s prototype Y-22 would become the world’s first fifth-generation stealth fighter – the F-22.

THE PLA ROCKET FORCE has more than 1,250 ground-launched ballistic and cruise missiles with ranges from 500km to 5,500km, which the US almost did not have due to the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) Treaty. THE ROCKET FORCE has greatly upgraded and expanded its nuclear-capable intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) inventory IN THE PAST 30 YEARS and now leads the world in the deployment of HYPERSONIC glide missiles with its DF-17.

_“Chinese equipment may not be as good as the Americans in certain specifications, but at least it is of the same generation of development. There is no longer the generational gap there was in the 1990s,”_ Ni said.

*The Gulf War played a VERY IMPORTANT ROLE in STIMULATING the progress of China’s military modernisation*, Tang said.





DF-17 missiles take part in a military parade in Beijing in 2019 to mark the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China. Photo: AFP

Although China’s state television did not broadcast live reports on Desert Storm, it was still closely watched.

_“Like myself, the prediction of most military personnel in China at the beginning of the war was that the United States would repeat the Soviet Union’s failure in Afghanistan,” said Liu Dingping, an officer with the PLA Second Artillery Command (now the Rocket Force) wrote in a newspaper article at the time. “But … we were wrong.”_

*The US-led coalition flew more than 100,000 SORTIES and DROPPED 88,500 TONNES OF BOMBS,* which stripped Iraq of its defences. The fact it took the coalition just 42 days – including just 100 hours on the ground – *to wipe out what was AT THE TIME the world’s FOURTH-LARGEST ARMY was telling*, experts say.

_“If it was us being attacked by the Americans at that time, the result might not have been any better,”_ said Ni, who was a 36-year-old military history researcher in 1991.

Many of Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein’s soldiers were veterans of the Iran-Iraq War and as well as Chinese weapons – Type 69 tanks, Type 63 armoured personnel carriers and J-7 fighters – were armed with advanced Soviet T-72 tanks and MiG-25, MiG-29 fighters.

But the US had the world’s FIRST OPERATIONAL STEALTH WARPLANE – the F-117, and fourth-generation fighters, the F-15, F-16 and F/A-18, as the backbone of its air campaign. Moreover, the squadrons of reconnaissance, surveillance, electronic-warfare, aerial refuelling tanker aircraft *were TOTAL STRANGERS* to the Chinese.





Many Iraqi troops, seen here being visited by Saddam Hussein (left) after their invasion of Kuwait in 1990, were veterans of the war with Iran. Photo: AFP

Wong said the PLA had never imagined that the coalition would be able to win with almost nothing but air power.

_*“It was as SHOCKING as a PSYCHOLOGICAL ATOMIC BOMB on the Chinese military, who still believed in Soviet-style tactics from the 1960s and 1970s,”*_ he said.





Iraqi forces blew up oil wells as they evacuated from Kuwait near the end of the Gulf War. Photo: Getty Images

*Wang Yiwei, a professor of international relations at Renmin University of China in Beijing, said the conflict reminded the Chinese of the RULE OF THE JUNGLE: “FALL BEHIND AND YOU WILL BE BEATEN”.*

_*“China ALSO LEARNED from the Gulf War that the US had established its dominance and hegemony THROUGH MILITARY MIGHT. The US could beat you whenever they want to,” he said.*_

The PLA at that time also realised it had fallen behind its number one imaginary enemy – Taiwan – in terms of advanced technology and weaponry. The Taiwanese independence movement had been growing since then, *and especially after the Strait Crises in 1995 and 1996, when the PLA stepped back when two US aircraft carrier strike groups intervened*, Song said.

_*“So given the CONSTANT ACCUMULATION of external and internal demands, coupled with the model effect of the Gulf War, the PLA were DEEPLY AWARE of the importance of strengthening its ability and improving its readiness for war,”*_ he said.









What was the turning point for China's military revolution?


In 1991, the People’s Liberation Army was ‘backwards’ compared to the might of America, experts say.




www.scmp.com





~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Interestingly, one of the most popular comment by a reader posted at the commentary section with more than 110 comments so far:

_*“China needs to vastly ramp up its **nuclear deterrent** to thousands of warheads on a **nuclear triad**. We should learn from Russia. They built the so-called "doomsday" weapon. China should build one too. Before the US gets any "ideas", our goal is to quash those wrong ideas.”*_


Another reader reminds readers of the bleak reality and those deceiving slogan and ideology:

_Had Iraq not been destroyed by the US embargoes and war over 30 years ago, today with its rich oil resources, Iraq, the land of Mesopotamia, would have been a modern country at least comparable to the Gulf states, among the most developed ones in the Middle East. The Gulf War had destroyed the livelihood of the Iraqi people and taken away their progress and happy lives, sent the country back to the backwardness and poverty, out of the blue, they have become one of the poorest countries in the Middle East and is still struggling to rebuild their homeland.

Indeed, some of the most prominent targets during their war on Iraq was the deliberate bombing of the scientific facilities, including universities, and even assassinating those Iraqi scientists._

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## lcloo

One thing China should never ignore is that US acted on BELIEVING in unconfirmed rumour (later proved to be FAKE) of Iraq possessed WMD (weapon of Mass Destruction). They started a war with fake news then, they can still do it again in future. 

And US is the center of propagating fake news for political gains, especially against China in the last 4 years right up to just 2 or 3 days before from Biden becoming the president.

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## ozranger

lcloo said:


> One thing China should never ignore is that US acted on BELIEVING in unconfirmed rumour (later proved to be FAKE) of Iraq possessed WMD (weapon of Mass Destruction). They started a war with fake news then, they can still do it again in future.
> 
> And US is the center of propagating fake news for political gains, especially against China in the last 4 years right up to just 2 or 3 days before from Biden becoming the president.



The core system of the US, AKA the deep state, didn't and will never simply believe in unconfirmed rumours. The launch of the 2nd Iraqi war is completely intentional with very fine planning in order to further strengthen petrodollars and also create extra rewards for America's arms industry.

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## Beast

The real catalyst is not Gulf war I but 1996 PRC/Taiwan strait crisis. China who never view US as future enemy suffer a rude awakening when they have nothing to stop US CVN if crisis really started with a conventional warfare.

Jiang Zemin despite very corrupted leader kickstart China real military modernization program.

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## LKJ86

*Xi Inspects Air Force Troops in Guizhou Ahead of Spring Festival*
Chinese President Xi Jinping on Thursday inspected an aviation division of the Air Force stationed in southwestern Guizhou Province ahead of the Spring Festival, or the Chinese Lunar New Year.

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## Deino

Me again with a strange request: I'm looking for an image - if my memory is correct - showing several PLAAF soldiers (might have been cadets ?) standing in uniform forming a "70" for the 70th anniversary? 

... I can't find it anymore.

Best and thanks


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## LKJ86

Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via @西部空天 from Weixin

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## Deino

Can anyone read what's written on that badge? 

*



*


via

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366663310729437186

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Can anyone read what's written on that badge?
> 
> *
> View attachment 721384
> *
> 
> 
> via
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366663310729437186




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366695254154428418

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## samsara

*TAIWAN STRAIT NEAR-WAR CRISIS IN JANUARY 2021*

More information is coming out from Taiwan itself regarding the United States UN Ambassador Kelly Craft's aborted trip to Taiwan in the last days of the Trump administration.

近日我方軍情及兩岸外交人士，也從多方管道得知不少片段訊息，經拼湊後大致的情況應該是，從1月7日到10日，中國透過外交管道向美方強烈抗議不得要領後，北京高層幾經考慮，決以軍事行動強力回應。11日解放軍透過中美2軍聯繫機制告知美國國防部，無法容忍克拉夫特訪台損及中國主權利益，當美國專機抵近台灣時，解放軍戰機也將會跟隨進入台灣領空，宣示台灣主權屬於中國的立場，若過程中遭遇台灣軍機阻擋，將不排除發生逕行開火等後果。

In recent days our military intelligence and Cross-Strait diplomatic corps have acquired many pieces of information regarding this. After analysis the situation overall went like this: from 7-10 January 2021 China strongly protested via diplomatic channels (regarding the US' UN Ambassador Kelly Craft's planned trip to Taiwan) to no avail.

After deliberation Beijing decided to respond with military force. On 11 January PLA notified Pentagon via military channels that China cannot tolerate Kelly Craft's action as they will damage the sovereignty of China. Once her plane nears Taiwan PLA aircraft will enter Taiwan airspace and declare sovereignty. If Taiwan aircraft were to interfere with this then they may be fired upon.

消息人士透露，當時五角大廈正忙著業務交接，根本沒料到中國軍方反應竟如此激烈，相關官員試圖與解放軍高層溝通但被拒絕。經緊急通知美軍印太司令部評估發現，若要保證克拉夫特專機安全降落台北，只有動用日本沖繩嘉手納基地的空軍第18聯隊F15C戰機護航一途，但美、中2國空軍將有發生軍事對峙的風險。

At the time The Pentagon was busy with the handover and did not expect such a strong response from the PLA. They attempted to contact PLA high command but was refused. Pentagon contacted United States Indo-Pacific Command and was told that the only way to ensure safety of Kelly Craft's plane was to mobilize F-15C from 18th Wing from Kadena Air Base, Okinawa for escort. But such as action risk military confrontation between China and US.

只不過若為避免美中直接衝突，改由台灣戰機全程護航情況可能更加棘手，一旦從共軍戰機大舉跨越中線進逼，恐會與台灣戰機在北台灣空域引爆戰火，屆時美國專機也怕會有安全顧慮，必須被迫轉降駐日美軍基地，這樣一來美軍即使能置身事外，但放任兩岸引燃戰火對美國來說也會是一場政治大災難。

Alternatively to avoid direct military confrontation between US and China, the ROCAF (Republic of China alias Taiwan Air Force) aircraft might be used instead for escort, but such a plan could also be very troublesome as once large number of PLAAF aircraft crosses the midline, there is risk of aerial combat with ROCAF aircraft over northern Taiwan.

Should that happen Kelly Craft's aircraft would be in danger and will be forced to turn and land in US air force base in Japan. Although this means US forces will not be involved in any fighting it will still trigger war between Taiwan and China, and thus cause a political disaster for the US.

美國國防部只好將共軍警告，及美軍相關評估結果告知國務院，並強烈建議克拉夫特應取消訪台，龐畢歐雖大感不滿，但審慎考量後果也同意踩下煞車。為避免外界聯想克拉夫特去不成台灣是因為中國施壓奏效，才以政權交接順利為由，一併取消國務院官員，包括龐畢歐自己的出訪計畫。由於最後克拉夫特沒出發，解放軍也未有挑釁行動，因而台灣朝野對這場北京及華盛頓間的大國角力渾然未覺，更不知已與台海戰火擦身而過。

Thus Pentagon was forced to send both the PLA warning as well as their estimate regarding US forces to the US State Department and recommend Kelly Craft's trip to Taiwan be cancelled. Mike Pompeo was very upset but after considering the consequences that ex-CIA director was forced to hit the brakes.

To avoid giving the impression that the cancellation of the trip was due to pressure from China, he instead used the handover as excuse and to give the better disguise cover not only cancelled the US' UN Ambassador Kelly Craft's scheduled trip to Taiwan, but also his own trip to Europe as well as all other trips by State Department staff.

Thus in the end Kelly Craft did not go to Taiwan and PLA did not implement the threat. Because of this Taiwan's political establishment never realised they were part of this political show of force between Beijing and Washington and how close war brushed by them.

_More at this link:_

幕後》台海最接近戰爭的1次！美駐聯大使訪台踩紅線，解放軍放話將隨同進入台灣領空

美國拜登政府上台後，在經貿、科技及香港、新疆民主人權議題上，對中國仍持強硬立場，但在敏感的美中台關係上卻相對緩和，既未如川普政府時熱衷打台灣牌刺激中國，反而還重申美國一中政策不變，更多次敦促兩岸重啟對話。

據了解，拜登政府對兩岸爭端力持審慎，似與今年1月間美國政權交接前夕，美國前駐聯合國大使克拉夫特（Kelly Craft）有意訪問台灣，幾乎引爆台海自1967年金門「113空戰」以來最接近開戰的危機有關，即使可能的台海戰火最後因克拉夫特未能成行，終而驚險消弭於無形，但後續效應至今仍在檯面下持續發酵。









台海1月差點開戰幕後秘辛！中國苦忍2個多月，美台1行動險擦槍走火-新新聞


美國拜登政府上台後，在經貿、科技及香港、新疆民主人權議題上，對中國仍持強硬立場，但在敏感的美中台關係上卻相對緩和，既未如川普政府時熱衷打台灣牌刺激中國，反而還重申美國一中政策不變，更多次敦促兩岸重啟對話。據了解，拜登政府對兩岸爭端力持審慎，似與今年1月間美國政權交接前夕，美國前駐




www.storm.mg





2021-03-10

Behind the scenes: Taiwan Strait is closest to war! The US ambassador to the United Nations stepped on the red line during her scheduled visit to Taiwan, and the PLA said that they would enter Taiwan's airspace along with her plane

After the Biden administration took office, the United States has maintained a hard line against China on issues of economic and trade, science and technology and democracy & human rights in Hong Kong and Xinjiang. But it has been relatively moderate in the sensitive relationship between China and the US. The new administration does not follow the Trump government's inclination to play out the Taiwan's cards to stimulate China. Instead, it reiterated the US "One-China Policy" remains unchanged and urged the two sides to restart the Cross-Strait dialogue.

It is understood that the Biden administration is very cautious about cross-strait disputes, which appear to be related to the intention of Kelly Craft, a former US ambassador to the United Nations, to visit Taiwan on the eve of the US power handover in January 2021, almost triggered a crisis that is closest to the start of war in the Taiwan Strait since the "113 Air War" in Kinmen Islands (aka. Quemoy) in 1967. Even though the possible war in the Taiwan Strait ultimately disappeared due to Kelly Craft's failure to make the trip, but the follow-up effect still continues to ferment.

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## Deino

Not sure if correct, but could anyone please post that image and text alone here, since @Rajfourtyseven has blocked me on Twitter? 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371995614796390400

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## samsara

From 卫纳夜格.巴特@Raj Kumar @rajfortyseven on 2021.03.17:

What is this #China testing for #RCS?
#HGV?
#Warhead?
Or a piggyback payload?
Dia-6m, Length-10-14m











__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371995614796390400

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## Deino

samsara said:


> From 卫纳夜格.巴特@Raj Kumar @rajfortyseven on 2021.03.17:
> 
> What is this #China testing for #RCS?
> #HGV?
> #Warhead?
> Or a piggyback payload?
> Dia-6m, Length-10-14m
> 
> View attachment 725324
> 
> View attachment 725325
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1371995614796390400




Thanks a lot ... I must admit I don't know what it is, but for me it looks more like a centre section of a flying wing design or UAV, like maybe the CH-7 or something different.

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## Deino

A bit like this:

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## Deino

Another mystery ... Anyone with an idea what's this?

(Image via @Oneninety from Weibo)


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Another mystery ... Anyone with an idea what's this?
> 
> (Image via @Oneninety from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 725922



Supposedly a video too: http://t.cn/A6trliU2?m=4616491846862415&u=6095935299

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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> Another mystery ... Anyone with an idea what's this?
> 
> (Image via @Oneninety from Weibo)
> 
> View attachment 725922



Klingon bird of prey on a time traveling mission.

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## ZeEa5KPul

I know exactly what it is...


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## LKJ86



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## Deino

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376063129587744769
Looks very much like Huizhou-Huiyang, home of the 26th Air Brigade.

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## samsara

From 逆襲 @horobeyo on 2021.03.31:

20年前的今天，历史需要有人站出来。

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1376958887929208837
*20 years ago TODAY, history needed someone to stand up.*

【风鸣社】81192的幸福理论【星尘】



https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1Cb411s7Qd



感谢@风鸣社 投稿视频

翻唱自JIN《文乃的幸福理论》(原唱：IA) 曲编：じん [画手主笔]：敏疯 饥寒猪 [画手]：Azerrry朝眠 喵小诺 橘右奈奈 西林 [PV]:Semaa小赛 [填词]:白菜 [图片后期处理]:喵北桑 妍酸

自制，一首关于王伟和81192的歌曲，VC星尘所唱 讲述的是一名飞行员和他战斗机的故事。故事背景来源于当年知名的历史事件， 自然会有人懂里面流露出的真挚爱国情感和英雄情怀。

_Self made, a song *about Wang Wei *王伟 *and 81192*, VC Stardust sings about a pilot and his fighter plane story. The background of the story is from the famous historical events of that year. Naturally, some people will understand the sincere patriotic feelings and heroic feelings._











4月1日，我们怀念张国荣，也不要忘了81192和王伟






4月1日，我们怀念张国荣，也不要忘了81192和王伟


4月1日，我们怀念张国荣，也不要忘了81192和王伟,




www.163.com





_*On April 1st, let's remember Leslie Cheung, and let's not forget 81192 and Wang Wei*

An interesting read about the late J-8II jet fighter pilot, Wang Wei.

*Date of incident: 01 April 2001*_

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1379318122704891904

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## LKJ86

Via @空军新闻 from Weixin

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## Deino

Wow ...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1381579986604285956


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## LKJ86

Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo

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## Ali_Baba

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 734845
> View attachment 734846
> View attachment 734847
> View attachment 734848
> View attachment 734849
> View attachment 734850
> View attachment 734851
> View attachment 734852
> View attachment 734853
> 
> Via @白龙_龙腾四海 from Weibo



The JF17 is not part of the PLAAF and therefore should not be part of your montage - (yes, China co-developed - but still not in active Chinese service ).


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## LKJ86

Ali_Baba said:


> The JF17 is not part of the PLAAF and therefore should not be part of your montage - (yes, China co-developed - but still not in active Chinese service ).


These pics from the same photographer are about the products of AVIC, and maybe this thread is the most related one that I can find.

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## Deino

Any idea?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384771307330576384


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## LKJ86

Via @燃烧的哈尔科夫 from Weibo

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## Deino

Deino said:


> Any idea?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384771307330576384




By the way, this base is Xuzhou and as it seems, it was no longer home of the 94th AR (Brigade?) but of the 2nd Training Brigade under the Shijiazhuang Flight Academy, which will just get J-10A/AS soon.







See:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1384853342078349315

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## LKJ86

Via www.81.cn

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## Deino

An interesting story written by Thomas Newdick / @CombatAir on Twitter from a time that some in the USA would like to ignore ... but even more interesting are rumours that even F-16s were planned and that Grumman should help develop a completely new fighter for the PLAAF. 

And yes, Tiananmen ended all of this, but what else would have been delivered by the US or how far would the cooperation have progressed if it didn't happen? 🤔 









Remembering The Time Grumman Helped Craft A Modern Fighter For China


The brief thaw in America’s relations with China in the 1980s yielded this surprising hybrid fighter program led by Grumman.




www.thedrive.com


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## sheik

Deino said:


> An interesting story written by Thomas Newdick / @CombatAir on Twitter from a time that some in the USA would like to ignore ... but even more interesting are rumours that even F-16s were planned and that Grumman should help develop a completely new fighter for the PLAAF.
> 
> And yes, Tiananmen ended all of this, but what else would have been delivered by the US or how far would the cooperation have progressed if it didn't happen? 🤔
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Remembering The Time Grumman Helped Craft A Modern Fighter For China
> 
> 
> The brief thaw in America’s relations with China in the 1980s yielded this surprising hybrid fighter program led by Grumman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.thedrive.com



I am sure the result of the one-way 'cooperation' won't be better than J-20, or even J-10.

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## LKJ86

Via @现代兵器 from Weixin

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## Deino

According to the "71" shown the parade that is not called a parade will be held on 1st July:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1396662710272548865

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## LKJ86

Via Weibo

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## LKJ86

WOW

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## LKJ86

LKJ86 said:


> WOW

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## Scorpiooo

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 743558
> 
> Via @现代兵器 from Weixin


Is it a stealth drone or jet concept


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## Deino

Scorpiooo said:


> Is it a stealth drone or jet concept




Fan made artwork of how the H-20 stealth bomber may look like.


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## LKJ86

Via @学习军团 from Weixin

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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## Deino

Can anyone please explain what's this Tweet is all about?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403708955172347914
... maybe I'm wrong in the translation - as per "AVIC First Aircraft Design and Research Institute posted: 'It's close to submission date, we are ready" - why is a "submission date" a hint for either the H-20 or J-35? IMO a "unveiling date" would be much more interesting.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403729969272946691


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## jaybird

Deino said:


> Can anyone please explain what's this Tweet is all about?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403708955172347914
> ... maybe I'm wrong in the translation - as per "AVIC First Aircraft Design and Research Institute posted: 'It's close to submission date, we are ready" - why is a "submission date" a hint for either the H-20 or J-35? IMO a "unveiling date" would be much more interesting.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1403729969272946691




"It's close to submission date, We are ready." is just a literal translation word by word from Chinese to English. Since Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is under AVIC First Aircraft Research Institute.

The Metaphor meaning behind it more like first prototype of H-20 or J-35 will made it's maiden flight soon. But how "soon" is considered soon.. We still don't know.


P.S Also, "It's close to submission time for the exam paper or hand in the exam" also meaning face the truth and see what you got.

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## Deino

jaybird said:


> "It's close to submission date, We are ready." is just a literal translation word by word from Chinese to English. Since Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is under AVIC First Aircraft Research Institute.
> 
> The Metaphor meaning behind it more like first prototype of H-20 or J-35 will made it's maiden flight soon. But how "soon" is considered soon.. We still don't know.
> 
> 
> P.S Also, "It's close to submission time for the exam paper or hand in the exam" also meaning face the truth and see what you got.




Thanks a lot!


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## bshifter

jaybird said:


> "It's close to submission date, We are ready." is just a literal translation word by word from Chinese to English. Since Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is under AVIC First Aircraft Research Institute.
> 
> The Metaphor meaning behind it more like first prototype of H-20 or J-35 will made it's maiden flight soon. But how "soon" is considered soon.. We still don't know.
> 
> 
> P.S Also, "It's close to submission time for the exam paper or hand in the exam" also meaning face the truth and see what you got.


When i posted these two screenshots (see the links below), it was a big hint already. Look at the progress of 003 and now this metaphor.









China's New Stealth Bomber: H-X / H-20


Agree. Hitler really messed up Germany. If he had been a bit more level headed, patient and more diplomatic, then Germany will probably have emerged a superpower along with the US. The Soviets would have had it more difficult and probably be in a secondary role I think. Had Hitler been more...



defence.pk









Type 00X/003 (former Type 002) Aircraft Carrier News & Discussions


Too grainy lol Too grainy to tell much -- except that it almost fills out a 350 meter section of the drydock. And that could be indicating a whole lot.



defence.pk





Ofcourse some bradwurst thought the H-20 screencap was just a cg and nothing more.


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## SQ8

What is the timeframe for J-8 retirement?


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## Deino

jaybird said:


> "It's close to submission date, We are ready." is just a literal translation word by word from Chinese to English. Since Shenyang Aircraft Corporation is under AVIC First Aircraft Research Institute.
> 
> The Metaphor meaning behind it more like first prototype of H-20 or J-35 will made it's maiden flight soon. But how "soon" is considered soon.. We still don't know.
> 
> 
> P.S Also, "It's close to submission time for the exam paper or hand in the exam" also meaning face the truth and see what you got.




Me again ... but WHO posted this? Is is again an individual blogger or poster at Weibo? Is it something like an official announcement?

Yes, I would like to believe in this rumour as indeed the "smoke is getting thicker" and where is smoke there must be a fire ... but we have been fooled too often before.


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## Beast

SQ8 said:


> What is the timeframe for J-8 retirement?


No timeline yet. They are big, fast, decent payload and range. They are much useful than J-7. I believe they will retired the same time JH-7A retired.

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## casual

Deino said:


> Me again ... but WHO posted this? Is is again an individual blogger or poster at Weibo? Is it something like an official announcement?
> 
> Yes, I would like to believe in this rumour as indeed the "smoke is getting thicker" and where is smoke there must be a fire ... but we have been fooled too often before.


just a rumor. don't take it seriously


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## siegecrossbow

casual said:


> just a rumor. don't take it seriously



Lol no.

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## Deino

siegecrossbow said:


> Lol no.
> 
> View attachment 753264
> 
> View attachment 753265




Interesting, but can anyone provide a full translation of both texts?


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## LKJ86




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## LKJ86




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## Deino

Anyone with an idea?!!


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407590397157773313

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407591007206707208
With similar reports from SAC concerning similar task forces, groups preparing structural tests and/or flight testing, what do you think what are the chances that we will see the unveiling, maybe even maiden flight of such a project (new J-10, J-20 twin seater, a new UAV, J-15T, J-35, ...) at or around 1st July?


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## Akasa

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea?!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407590397157773313
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407591007206707208
> With similar reports from SAC concerning similar task forces, groups preparing structural tests and/or flight testing, what do you think what are the chances that we will see the unveiling, maybe even maiden flight of such a project (new J-10, J-20 twin seater, a new UAV, J-15T, J-35, ...) at or around 1st July?



By "aircraft" they could mean anything, including small UAVs, not necessarily something as high-end as a new fighter. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything, to be honest, since none of the previous big-ticket items were unveiled after such announcements and social media fanfare.

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## siegecrossbow

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea?!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407590397157773313
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407591007206707208
> With similar reports from SAC concerning similar task forces, groups preparing structural tests and/or flight testing, what do you think what are the chances that we will see the unveiling, maybe even maiden flight of such a project (new J-10, J-20 twin seater, a new UAV, J-15T, J-35, ...) at or around 1st July?



We know for a fact that it can’t be JF-17 block III since it is mentioned in the same article and has already flown. Anything else is up for grabs. The most disappointing case would be GJ-1 drones modified for Type-076 operations.

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## Akasa

siegecrossbow said:


> We know for a fact that it can’t be JF-17 block III since it is mentioned in the same article and has already flown. Anything else is up for grabs. The most disappointing case would be GJ-1 drones modified for Type-076 operations.



Maybe it's the rumored J-20 version with WS-15 engines. Who knows.


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## jaybird

Akasa said:


> By "aircraft" they could mean anything, including small UAVs, not necessarily something as high-end as a new fighter. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything, to be honest, since none of the previous big-ticket items were unveiled after such announcements and social media fanfare.




Not so sure about that. 

飞机 = Airplane/AirCraft.

无人机 = UAV.

I will think if it was UAV, they well write 某型号机. And not飞机.


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## LKJ86



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## sheik

Deino said:


> Anyone with an idea?!!
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407590397157773313
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1407591007206707208
> With similar reports from SAC concerning similar task forces, groups preparing structural tests and/or flight testing, what do you think what are the chances that we will see the unveiling, maybe even maiden flight of such a project (new J-10, J-20 twin seater, a new UAV, J-15T, J-35, ...) at or around 1st July?



IMHO the chance to see the unveiling or even maiden flight of some new aircraft ( that include even J-35, H-20) is high. There are July 1st, Oct 1st, August 1st, Apr 23rd, Nov 11th every year, but the 100th Anniversary of CCP is just truly different. It's BIG! It's historic! Only the 100th Anniversary of PRC (10/1/2049) will be comparable in terms of significance. I won't be surprised at all if I see some new toys for PLA unveiled/announced tomorrow.

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## JSCh

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1413123862884089859

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## LKJ86

Via @Oneninety from Weibo

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## Deino

Not sure if here is the appropriate thread since he is not really a PLAAF man, but any idea what this „major news“ could be?


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419709216290451457


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## casual

Deino said:


> Not sure if here is the appropriate thread since he is not really a PLAAF man, but any idea what this „major news“ could be?
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419709216290451457


no, but Aug 1st is a special date.


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## Deino

casual said:


> no, but Aug 1st is a special date.




Here it is:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419814340551716876


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## ozranger

Deino said:


> Here it is:
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1419814340551716876


Are those just wind farms or not?


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## Globenim

ozranger said:


> Are those just wind farms or not?


Once upon a time China allegedly used screwdrivers on a nuclear silo project.
This project apparently also used screwdrivers.
Therefore these are nuclear silos disguised as wind turbines, aimed at China which the USA claims is not China.

q.e.d.

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## ozranger

Now the Russians have a chance to assess capability of China made AESA radars on J-16 and J-10B as PLAAF sends them to Russia for joint military drills.

It seems the military cooperation between China and Russia has achieved a new height as they open sensitive equipment to each other. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426468113793441803

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426465285591101441

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426468578807599106

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426469088285519874

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## Ali_Baba

The Y20 is quite an impressive plane - with better engines, it could become useful for Pakistan. I know that China is working on homegrown engines to re-engine the Y20, but for foreign sales - could they be equipped with western engines? Think that would get Pakistans interest for sure.


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## siegecrossbow

ozranger said:


> Now the Russians have a chance to assess capability of China made AESA radars on J-16 and J-10B as PLAAF sends them to Russia for joint military drills.
> 
> It seems the military cooperation between China and Russia has achieved a new height as they open sensitive equipment to each other.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426468113793441803
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426465285591101441
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426468578807599106
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1426469088285519874



It isn’t a joint exercise. It is just Aviadarts where they shoot unguided rockets at ground targets.


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## MajesticPug

Ali_Baba said:


> The Y20 is quite an impressive plane - with better engines, it could become useful for Pakistan. I know that China is working on homegrown engines to re-engine the Y20, but for foreign sales - could they be equipped with western engines? Think that would get Pakistans interest for sure.



There must be a point when China tells any foreign buyers if you wanted Chinese planes then you take the Chinese engines also. Or you can buy somewhere else. Is there any reason other than antiquated belief that Chinese soldiers' lives are more expendable than Paks or anybody?


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## Beast

siegecrossbow said:


> It isn’t a joint exercise. It is just Aviadarts where they shoot unguided rockets at ground targets.


But I dont think if just shooting rockets and dropping precision guided bomb, u need to send J-16.

JH-7A and J-11B / BS can do the job. Definitely some electronic warfare are involved during the exercise which result J-16 and J-10B send instead.

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## StraightEdge

Ali_Baba said:


> The Y20 is quite an impressive plane - with better engines, it could become useful for Pakistan. I know that China is working on homegrown engines to re-engine the Y20, but for foreign sales - could they be equipped with western engines? Think that would get Pakistans interest for sure.



Unless a country order a large number of these (say 30+), why would China go through the trouble of creating a separate variant? Cost and complexity will escalate way too much. Secondly, which western country will sell anything to China that can be used by PLA?

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## siegecrossbow

Beast said:


> But I dont think if just shooting rockets and dropping precision guided bomb, u need to send J-16.
> 
> JH-7A and J-11B / BS can do the job. Definitely some electronic warfare are involved during the exercise which result J-16 and J-10B send instead.



They sent J-10B to Aviadarts 2017.


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## Ali_Baba

MajesticPug said:


> Is there any reason other than antiquated belief that Chinese soldiers' lives are more expendable than Paks or anybody?



Nothing to do with the value of lives and everything to do with the Total cost of Ownership which includes initial procurement costs, costs to operate and cost to maintain and replacement costs, given shorter service lives etc. Right now, and i suspect for quite some time, chinese engines will have much higher TCO costs than western engines and even Russian engines.

Jet engines are hard to make - ask the russians - they have been doing it longer than china but they are having issues with their engines(eg AL-31's )...


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## Beast

Ali_Baba said:


> Nothing to do with the value of lives and everything to do with the Total cost of Ownership which includes initial procurement costs, costs to operate and cost to maintain and replacement costs, given shorter service lives etc. Right now, and i suspect for quite some time, chinese engines will have much higher TCO costs than western engines and even Russian engines.
> 
> Jet engines are hard to make - ask the russians - they have been doing it longer than china but they are having issues with their engines(eg AL-31's )...


Chinese has been making gas turbine more than a decade and our destroyer equipped with them has no issue so far. We didn't replace destroyer like RN type 45 during any of our anti piracy trip or overseas deployment halfway. It proves it relaibility.

If u are asking why suddenly the topic changes to ship gas turbine is becos naval warship gas turbine derived from turbofan. And they are equally hard to make. Even the Russian hasn't really master the naval gas turbine. Big reason why Russian naval modernization is delayed. I highly doubt Chinese aero engine are behind Russian, in fact our benchmark set for our aero engine are much higher than Russian.

A very big reason why Chinese continue used large number of AL-31 engine and only until recently we switches to Chinese one is becos we signed a mega deal for supply of 1000 AL-31 engines in 2000s which Russian insist to lock on to their profit. They know Chinese going to use domestic aero engine soon but not willing to supply further unless Chinese committed this amount.

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## MajesticPug

Ali_Baba said:


> Nothing to do with the value of lives and everything to do with the Total cost of Ownership which includes initial procurement costs, costs to operate and cost to maintain and replacement costs, given shorter service lives etc. Right now, and i suspect for quite some time, chinese engines will have much higher TCO costs than western engines and even Russian engines.
> 
> Jet engines are hard to make - ask the russians - they have been doing it longer than china but they are having issues with their engines(eg AL-31's )...



You are still having that antiquated and unfound belief of older Chinese engine models. It's like evaluating Chinese train technology using trains made by the Chinese in the 1990's. It's okay to do that to evaluate British or American train technologies using that timeline. But on the Chinese? LOL..

Again, China should tell Paks or anybody take it or leave it. They can go to Russians if they believe Russian transport planes meet their needs and that India will not block the sales. Unlike the US, China does not hold a noose on their friends and/or allies.

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## lcloo

Update from Huitong's Chinese Military Aviation:-
"The latest image (August 2021) suggested that the first *Y-20U *has entered the service with the PLAAF 13th Division, along with *Il-78*s, wearing a low-visibility color scheme. It was rumored that two (20241, 20242?) are currently in service."

No counting the numbers of H6U aerial tankers, China now has 3 IL-78 tankers and 2 Y20U tankers. The three IL-78 tankers are refurbished ex-Ukrainian airforce tankers and were bought for stop-gap purpose, so we can expect more Y20U will be entering PLAAF and PLAN Aviation fleets.

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## khanasifm

Why China’s Latest Jets Are Surpassing Russia’s Top Fighters


Since the consolidation of Communist party rule over mainland China in 1949, China’s military aviation sector has owed a tremendous debt to the Russian Bear. However, according to a new study, the apprentice may have surpassed the master as Chinese jets lead in radar, weapons and stealth technology.




www.forbes.com


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## JSCh

PLAAF released video to commemorate 72nd founding anniversary.

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## ozranger

I guess that it is not a coincidence that all references to H-20 have almost the same shape.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458402017555013632

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## JSCh

JSCh said:


> PLAAF released video to commemorate 72nd founding anniversary.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1458427321321340935

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## lcloo

Whatever it is, I am happy to see it without the canvas, before 2021 is over.

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## Shotgunner51

lcloo said:


> Whatever it is, I am happy to see it withou the canvas, before 2021 is over.
> 
> View attachment 792441


Yes, I wanna see that too.
希望不是六爷Pro，字母不够用了

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## Deino

Again a must-read by @RickJoe_PLA on the latest Chinese fighter developments!













Reviewing China’s New Stealth Fighters


What we know about the twin seat J-20 and carrier-borne FC-31 fighter – and a mystery tailless airframe captured in satellite imagery.



thediplomat.com

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## Deino

Can anyone help me out with some information on Chinese datalink systems and esp. the latest ones, which are said to be comparable to "Link 16".


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## SQ8

Deino said:


> Can anyone help me out with some information on Chinese datalink systems and esp. the latest ones, which are said to be comparable to "Link 16".


Ten years ago( shit it has been long) working with Chinese manufacturers for a sdr they were claiming compatibility with Link-16 then. The Pakistani link-17 is more advanced than 16 as it incorporates pieces of Link-22 in it so I would be surprised if any Chinese DLs aren’t as or more advanced today.

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## Polestar 2

SQ8 said:


> Ten years ago( shit it has been long) working with Chinese manufacturers for a sdr they were claiming compatibility with Link-16 then. The Pakistani link-17 is more advanced than 16 as it incorporates pieces of Link-22 in it so I would be surprised if any Chinese DLs aren’t as or more advanced today.


Ten years ago? J-20 haven't even deploy. 055 destroyer is no where to be seen. 

For China, 10 years are enough to reach the very best level. And I also don't expect China will show the best they have to Pakistan. Just like VT-4 but not Type 99 tank are allow to be exported. J-20 for PLAAF only.


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## SQ8

Polestar 2 said:


> Ten years ago? J-20 haven't even deploy. 055 destroyer is no where to be seen.
> 
> For China, 10 years are enough to reach the very best level. And I also don't expect China will show the best they have to Pakistan. Just like VT-4 but not Type 99 tank are allow to be exported. J-20 for PLAAF only.


That was my point - but in many cases there is some feedback the Chinese firm(or institute) had a lot of quality issues we asked to address in their hardware and firmware which we helped them address.


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## Polestar 2

SQ8 said:


> That was my point - but in many cases there is some feedback the Chinese firm(or institute) had a lot of quality issues we asked to address in their hardware and firmware which we helped them address.


Its not a problem exclusive of Chinese, so as US and western where they will refuse to address some of the issue regards to quality , firmware or usage as it will increase final price and margin. Do take into consideration, budget is a big consideration factor. Chinese products margin usually are very low as our product sale price are fraction of western products.

And buyer still keen on asking further cut on buy price. There is a limit of what they can give, End of the day, they need at least some profit to sustain further development and other operating cost.

Take for example JF-17 tender for Argentina AF, Chinese has offer an attractive package of USD50 million per piece with AESA and Argentina still further want to take advantage by asking for further cuts. Argentina shall look further of what price Rafale, Typhoon, Gripen are asking which is 3 - 4 times the price. But then again, are they 3-4 times better than JF-17 Blk 3 or capable of 1 taking on 3 of it?


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weibo

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## johncliu88

There are still quite some J-8's in service.


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## Shotgunner51

Y-9G EW aircraft at western Pacific, 4th April

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## siegecrossbow

johncliu88 said:


> There are still quite some J-8's in service.



Less than 200, will be gone in two years time. Cherish them while it lasts.


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## MajesticPug

siegecrossbow said:


> Less than 200, will be gone in two years time. Cherish them while it lasts.



China could sell the hundreds of J8's to many countries in bulk. They're still effective against land forces that have little airforce or defense strength.


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## ZeEa5KPul

siegecrossbow said:


> Less than 200, will be gone in two years time. Cherish them while it lasts.


Nah, antiques don't belong in today's PLAAF and certainly not tomorrow's. Good riddance.


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## johncliu88

Just saw a news on World Military Forum saying a J-7 crashed into a house killing 1 and 2 injured in Xiangyang city, Hubei Province. The pilot ejected successfully and he was found injured as well. 

News link


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## StraightEdge

johncliu88 said:


> Just saw a news on World Military Forum saying a J-7 crashed into a house killing 1 and 2 injured in Xiangyang city, Hubei Province. The pilot ejected successfully and he was found injured as well.
> 
> News link




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534821504960999424

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## siegecrossbow

johncliu88 said:


> Just saw a news on World Military Forum saying a J-7 crashed into a house killing 1 and 2 injured in Xiangyang city, Hubei Province. The pilot ejected successfully and he was found injured as well.
> 
> News link



Old type with limited use, unlike the J-8 which could be used for reconnaissance and interception of cruise missiles. I think they should be retired asap.


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## lcloo

Whatever frame lives left of these J7 would be useful if they are converted into suicide drones or target drones, or even decoy drones. 

The roles of J7 and JJ7 as trainer jets should all be replaced by JL9 and JL10. And for those second line air brigades/regiments that still operate J7s, it is time to move to J10A and J11A.


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## S10

StraightEdge said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1534821504960999424


There are still a few hundred J-7 in service, but they're quite new with the last unit produced for PLAAF around 2011. They can't simply be retired all at once since some pilots will have nothing to fly.


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## StraightEdge

S10 said:


> There are still a few hundred J-7 in service, but they're quite new with the last unit produced for PLAAF around 2011. They can't simply be retired all at once since some pilots will have nothing to fly.



How many newer jets (J10c/J16) is China producing per year now?


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## S10

StraightEdge said:


> How many newer jets (J10c/J16) is China producing per year now?


My best guess:

24 J-10
40 J-16
24 J-20


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## Ali_Baba

S10 said:


> There are still a few hundred J-7 in service, but they're quite new with the last unit produced for PLAAF around 2011. They can't simply be retired all at once since some pilots will have nothing to fly.



Those pilots can be retrained to fly something else! Now that China can make engines for the J10 series, in house - they could up the production rate of J10C's etc.


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## leviathan

S10 said:


> My best guess:
> 
> 24 J-10
> 40 J-16
> 24 J-20


should add around 24 J15. J20 should be more than 40 this year


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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weibo


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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/kj/2022-08/11/content_10177405.htm

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via CCTV 7 and @沉默的山羊 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @水雷屋 from Weibo

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weibo

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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weibo


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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/kj/2022-11/29/content_10202129.htm

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## hualushui

LKJ86 said:


> View attachment 901328
> 
> Via http://www.81.cn/kj/2022-11/29/content_10202129.htm


UAV？


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## Deino

hualushui said:


> UAV？



Nope ... regular J-7E


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## Gomig-21

hualushui said:


> UAV？



Just curious, what made you think it was a UAV?

China took the original MiG-21 F-13 which was the first of the mass produced MiG-21s in Russia and copied it exactly but as time went by and China became a powerhouse in building its own avionics and other important elements to aircraft not to mention its own designs like the J-10 series and many others, they also began doing their own things on these F-7s such as the F-7PG for example which they sold to Pakistan. I do believe that was a request by the PAF to specifically make the change to the delta wings tips which helped create greater square footage to the wings. That was one of the several faults of the MiG-21 series in that the wings were really small and for a reason. It was originally designed as a rocket cylinder with just enough wings to create good lift, vertical stabilizer for obvious reasons (to hold and use a decent-sized rudder) and of course, the horizontal stabilizers which had great shapes to them to assist in minor and major pitch control, and they did just that. Rolls also with the assistance of the airlerons and the aircraft did its job perfectly which was simple - interception. 

It was meant to be on guard, get orders from general command that a foreign aircraft has entered Russian airspace and so it (and at least one other) would take off immediately, fly straight to the point of interception at mach 2+ and once intercepted, first attempt to escort the intruding aircraft out of Russian air space and follow it until it does and then return straight back. If it refused, then it would reveive a series of 30 mm cannon fire straight across the front of the nose as a serious warning. Usually by then, the intruder is gone but if for some stupid reason it persists on its course over Russian space after that severe warning, the next option is to actually make that 30 mm cannon blast run right along the center of the fuselage and wing and tail. That's usually enough to cause the intruding airfcraft to fall apart and pilot having to eject so he can be caprtured and interrogated. If for some amazing reason the intruder STILL doesn't get the message and the aircraft survives the cannon blast and he even has the cajones to turn and fight the MiG-21s, then it's Atoll missils time. One can fire both its missiles and the other can empty its cannon shots and that most certainly will take care of the intruding aircraft, bringing it down,

This is what started making the MiG-21 a very accomplishes interceptor which many other countries saw as a great asset to have to protect their own airspace. Hence the beginning of one of the most successful export fighters ever (until the F-16 I believe not too long ago has surpassed the number of MiG-21s ever sold). 

And with that early success, MiG and Russia started to improve on the original F-13 design which required a larger body, wings, radar, more avionics etc. etc. and the design slowly changed with every new model as the years went by.

But China stuck with the overall design of that original F-13 shape (with the exception of the wings on the PG like I mentioned earlier) but made improvements in many other areas and has sold A LOT of them to many countries all over the world including its own squadrons which I am assuming this beauty in this picture (as well as the one taking off) are part of that squadron(s).

A closer look at this never-ending classic. The first to incorporate the bubble canopy? Also looks like it's carrying one of its own PL missile or a A2G one, not sure. Also judging by the length of the wings, this 







A good look at the Pakistani F-7PG and easily noticeable difference in the wing tip change design which gave it that much more area for better lift and slower speeds, so it didn't bleed too much of the infamous energy loss the standard MiG-21 delta wings were well known for.






Not only the increased area footage, but you can also see that it allowed the Chinese engineers to add either self-moving slats or leading edge flaps to the leading edge of that changed wing area. Very noticeable on the portside wing in this pic. 

So the Chinese made some great and very significant changes and addons to their copy of the MiG-21 F-13 that were nothing but excellent improvements. You also get a great look at the bubble canopy which every MiG-21 enthusiast knows very well that was one of its biggest flaws, especially in the later designs as they added more and more items to the fuselage, the outward view for the pilot kept shrinking and got worse and worse with each new model. This was another item the Chinese engineers made sure only got better, it seems.

From some literature out there, a few pilots who were interviewed about this F-7 and those larger wings and what they felt about them all told the same thing about increased ability to turn much tighter turns at higher speeds because it helped the aircraft sustain that momentum as it entered the merge and began making tighter turns, unlike the original wings which caused the aircraft to bleed energy once it entered the merge and started performing those tighter turns.

Many countries that were buying the MiG-21 ended up buying the F-7 as well and most were actually the original design with the standard MiG-21 wings. They were affordable and China was able to pump them out like crazy making all these countries very happy.


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## LKJ86




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## LKJ86

Via @东部战区 from Weibo

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## LKJ86




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## Deino

Ok, … 2022 ended and again like the years before it was filled with interesting news and revelations, so now with 2023 already two days old, what can we expect in 2023?

- additional J-35 prototypes
- finally clear KJ-600 images
- J-20AS and J-20B + WS-15 news
- Y-20B enters service
- Z-20S/F enters naval service
- …

My personell wishes are, we‘ll get a first sight of the operational GJ-11 and the H-20 will be revealed.

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## LKJ86



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## LKJ86

Via http://www.81.cn/pk/2023-01/09/content_10210622.htm


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