# 6th International Defence Fair Partner 2013



## proka89

*6th International Defense Fair*

PARTNER 2013

*June 25  28, 2013*








The 6th International Defense Fair PARTNER 2013 will be held on June 25 - 28, this year, at Belgrade Fair, as in previous years, under the auspices of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Serbia, the Co-Organizer is Yugoimport SDPR and the Executive Organizer Belgrade Fair.

The Serbian Defense Industry justified the expectations and accomplished important results in production, exports and employment and remained one of the leading Serbian economic branches and the generator of economic activities. By its activities it created preconditions for other economic branches development and assisted the commencement of the economic recovery and reputation growth of Serbian economy in the region, Europe and the world.

We are sure the presentation of its achievements, as well as business contacts to renowned international participants, experts and business visitors accomplished at the five PARTNER events held so far at Belgrade Fair, also contributed to the positive results of the Serbian Defense Industry.

In addition to an economic get-together, the PARTNER is also a meeting of experts working within weapons and military equipment and a good opportunity for an exchange of trade information and getting new skills by participation in the meetings and presentations following this event.


*The sixth International Defense Fair PARTNER 2013 will provide insight into:*

- Programs of the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Serbia and scientific-technical and maintenance capacities of the Ministry of Defense institutions;

- Activities of the institutions and companies from the Republic of Serbia carrying out research, development and manufacturing of weapons and military equipment;

- Technological possibilities and those of service providing by international companies interested in cooperation with the Ministry of Defense of the Republic of Serbia, Serbian Army and manufacturing and trading companies within weapons and military equipment;

- The product range of the additional equipment manufacturers.

The sixth International Defense Fair PARTNER 2013 will be held at 17, 600 square meters of gross exhibiting space in the Halls 1 and 4 and at 5,000 square meters of Belgrade Fair outdoor space. At the event held in 2011, there were 88 Serbian and international exhibitors. According to the so far shown interest of the local and international participants, we expect this number to be exceeded at the next PARTNER.

*Opening Hours of the 6th International Defense Fair PARTNER 2013:*

- June 25  27 from 10:00 a. m. t&#1086; 05:00 p. m, for business visitors only with an invitation letter of a participant and completed registration form;

- June 28 from 10:00 a. m. t&#1086; 07:00 p. m, for business visitors with an invitation letter of a participant and completed registration form free of charge, and for the remaining interested parties with a bought entry ticket.

*Systems and Programs to be Exhibited at the PARTNER 2013 Event
*
* Shooting Weapons

* Fire Support Weapon Systems (mortars, grenade launchers, towed and self-propelled conventional and missile artillery)
 Medium-caliber guns
 Anti-tank and infantry fire-support systems
 Combat and non-combat vehicles (tanks and other armored combat vehicles, reconnaissance vehicles, patrol vehicles, transport vehicles, and logistic vehicles)
 Air defense systems, artillery and missile systems
 Guided missile systems
 Vehicle weapon systems and equipment
 Ammunition (shooting, grenades, non-lethal ammunition, signal ammunition, ammunition for grenade-launchers, ammunition for medium-caliber guns, mortar ammunition, artillery ammunition, tank ammunition, unguided missiles)
 Guided ammunition for fire-support systems (artillery and missile systems) and tank guns 
 Guided missiles
 Explosive substances (powders, propellant charges, explosives and pyrotechnics) 
 Electronic surveillance and reconnaissance systems
 C4I systems
 Optoelectronic equipment
 Telecommunications and signals equipment
 Radar and computer equipment
 Engineering equipment
 Quartermaster equipment
 Protective gear
 NBC protection equipment
 Military logistics
 Anti-terrorist action equipment
 Aircraft (aircraft, helicopters and unmanned aerial vehicles)
 Aircraft equipment and weapon systems
 Aircraft ammunition (unguided and guided missiles, unguided and guided bombs) 
 Vessels
 Ship borne equipment and weapon systems 
 Training aids and simulators
 Overhaul of land forces equipment
 Overhaul of ammunition
 Overhaul of air force and air defense equipment
 Overhaul of naval equipment
 Programs of modification, modernization, and conversion of army, air force and air defense and navy equipment
 Transfer of defense technologies 
 Defense infrastructure 
 Joint development of defense systems and equipment
 Testing of defense systems and equipment
 Add-ons, components and spare parts

Home

*Press Conference on the Occasion of the Upcoming Fair "Partner 2013" *

At the Belgrade Fair today a press conference was organised concerning the upcoming fair of arms and military equipment "Partner 2013" which is to be held from 25 to 28 June. Sponsor of the event is the Ministry of Defence of the Republic of Serbia, the co-organizer is "Yugoimport - SDPR", and the executive organizer is the Belgrade Fair.






The speakers at the gathering were Assistant Minister for Material Resources Jasminka Todorov, Chief of the Defence Technology Department of Material Resources Sector of the Ministry of Defence, Brigadier General Bojan Zrnic, PhD, Assistant General Director of "YUGOIMPORT - SDPR" Nenad Miloradovic, PhD, and, on behalf of the Belgrade Fair, Mirjana Lukic .

On this occasion, the Assistant Minister of Defence said that "Partner 2013" will be the point for meeting of important scientific and research institutions and companies in the field of defence technologies, but also an opportunity for foreign and domestic producers of arms and military equipment to lay the foundation of a successful business-technical cooperation or to improve the existing one.

- Defence Industry of the Republic of Serbia is a vital part of our economy since it used to achieve significant results even in the years of crisis, not only for our economy but also the world. We are planning to maintain our growth trend and I am sure that this event will enable new business contacts and create new opportunities for business cooperation - Jasminka Todorov said.

She said that the Serbian Government and relevant ministries have taken active measures to support the defence industry in developing its competitiveness and securing new markets.






Brigadier General Zrnic announced that the development resources, funded by the Ministry of Defence and the Serbian Army Forces will be presented at the Fair. Thus, a version of the modular rocket launcher system, labelled as the Morava project complemented with logistics vehicle will be shown. An integral part of that system is the improved 128 mm rocket Oganj (Fire). A new 30 mm automatic cannon and upgraded "Bumblebee" missile system with a new guiding and launching device will be shown for the first time.

From the reconnaissance and sensor systems, the system for acoustic reconnaissance and localisation of opponent's artillery systems  a project known as "Hemera" and wideband HF scope radio direction finder will be also shown for the first time. Mobile integrated platform MIP 11 has also been improved, and the complete system of "Sparrow" and "Pegasus" UAVs will be also shown.

A special segment will be related to the command and information systems and the hardware platform for their development and implementation  project of integrated communication systems. In addition, the off-road vehicles from joint development project of MTI and the FAP factory from Priboj and a new off-road vehicle from the production programme of "Zastava kamioni" (Zastava Trucks).

Nenad Miloradovic, PhD, made a presentation of Yugoimport. He said that Yugoimport will appear also this year as an integrator of performance of our defence industry to exhibit a wide range of their products. Also, the exhibition space of Yugoimport will be enriched with 15 complex combat systems from their development and production programme.

This year's event "PARTNER 2013" will be held in Halls 1 and 4 of the Belgrade Fair. Hall 1 will be dedicated to the Serbian defence industry, and Hall 4 is reserved for foreign exhibitors.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

Here is the list of the exhibitors for Partner 2013:

http://www.partner.mod.gov.rs/en/exhibitors/2013

Also here is the new number of the Serbian magazine Arsenal, dedicated to the this year exhibitors (Unfortunately on Serbian, but you can use google translate or just look at the pics ):

http://www.odbrana.mod.gov.rs/arsenal/78/Arsenal 78.pdf

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## Kompromat

Please keep us posted. HOTLINK images if possible.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

Aeronaut said:


> Please keep us posted. HOTLINK images if possible.



I am definitely going as i always do, So i will share my, and any other pics that i can find, together with news, brochures...

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## proka89

It's starting tomorrow, but here are some of the first pics 

*Probably some command version of the BOV armored vehicle:*





*Multiple modular rocket launcher Morava:*





*SORA self propelled howitzer 122mm, with a new auto loader:*





*NORA B52 self propelled howitzer 152/155mm:*

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

Premiere of the Lazar 2 armored vehicle:

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## proka89

*Pakistan is buying Lazar 2 - Pakistan is buying Lazar 2 - Pakistan is buying Lazar 2 *

It is just confirmed by our defence minister Aleksandar Vucic.



> Vu&#269;i&#263; je tako&#273;e rekao da bi i Pakistanu do kraja godine trebalo da budu isporu&#269;ena tri borbena vozila, Lazar 2, koje proizvodi Jugoimport SDPR.
> 
> Pakistan je prvi kupac ovog oklopnjaka, za &#269;iju je nabavku zainteresovana i Vojska Srbije.



Vucic said that Pakistan should get first three Lazar 2 vehicles until the end of the year. Pakistan is the first country to buy this vehicle.

Reactions: Like Like:
5


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

proka89 said:


> *Pakistan is buying Lazar 2 - Pakistan is buying Lazar 2 - Pakistan is buying Lazar 2 *
> 
> It is just confirmed by our defence minister Aleksandar Vucic.
> 
> 
> 
> Vucic said that Pakistan should get first three Lazar 2 vehicles until the end of the year. Pakistan is the first country to buy this vehicle.



Excellent news.............How many have been ordered? also are they coming with ToT or just off the shelf?

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

Three vehicles until the end of the year. Pakistan and Serbia will both buy this vehicle. So i am guessing that they will put it through some tests together. It's the new vehicle, first time shown to the public today.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## BDforever

proka89 said:


> *SORA self propelled howitzer 122mm, with a new auto loader:*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *NORA B52 self propelled howitzer 152/155mm:*



bro many sources say following picture is Nora B-52 






and this SORA SPH





i am really confused, they looks almost same (apart from wheels), what are differences between them ?
and you posted the picture of Nora B-52 is different from what i posted

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Audio

proka89 said:


>



It looks great. Which company is the maker?


----------



## BDforever

proka89 said:


> it is reported that bangladesh is going to buy this one and also ordered Nora B-52 SPH in 2011
> source: http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28756&Itemid=105
> 
> 
> oopss sorry they are different

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

BDforever said:


> i am really confused, they looks almost same, what are differences between them ?
> and you posted the picture of Nora B-52 is different from what i posted



This is SORA:
http://www.vti.mod.gov.rs/index.php?view=actuality&type=projects&category=1&id=78

For start you can see that the truck is different. SORA is upgraded D30 122mm howitzer on 6x6 platform, while NORA B (basic version) is the NORA A 152/155 on the 8x8 platform. On the second picture you can see Nora B 52 K2, which is the latest version of NORA B, with armor, and on the picture you posted we can see NORA without armor, but with the same characteristics. Without armor it is possible to transport Nora with a planes like Ilyushin 76. So potential buyer can choose between strategic mobility and extra protection. There is also version of the SORA with armor, it called SOKO.



Audio said:


> It looks great. Which company is the maker?



YUGOIMPORT SDPR

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

BDforever said:


> it is reported that bangladesh is going to buy this one and also ordered Nora B-52 SPH in 2011
> source: http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28756&Itemid=105
> 
> 
> oopss sorry they are different



According to our minister of defence, you can buy 147 Lazar 1, or the 52 Lazar 2 (So Lazar 1 it's almost three times cheaper). He also said that Lazar 2 will be two to three times cheaper than Patria.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@proka89 brother... tell us about the weapon systems or turret on Lazar 2... also any other weapon Pakistan showed interest in...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

@DESERT FIGHTER
Concerning the turret, i doubt that it's the final version. I believe that this is only put there for show. It actually looks like a modified turret that was used in project of the modernization of M 80 IFV:






I believe that it will be armed with the new 30X173mm Vidra cannon. That cannon should be developed until the end of the year.






Or any other of this remotely controlled weapon stations:











Also it is possible to buy it without the weapons from Serbia, and then you can put whatever you wish.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CheefCoach

Let's help a Proka a little. Camouflage version of Lazar is older version Lazar 1, the completely green version is Lazar 2. Both are prototypes. Lazar 1 have stiff, truck suspension, and Lazar 2 have independent suspension. Lazar 1 have 20 mm gun, and Lazar 2 have 30 mm gun+50 cal MG+ 2 AT missiles. Lazar 2 have bigger slope on front and have no windows. But any future buyers have options of modifying things, so you can put any battle station you like. Patria cost around 2M$ so Lazar 2 should be around 1M$.
We are developing several SP Artillery system by same kitchen, so they are look similar. NORA B52 have 155 or 152 mm 52 caliber gun. Finished version had ammo stored left and right from gun, and having auto loader. It is quite possible that they added some extra armor on it. And that gun can look quite differently in suppose on which side is turned. SORA have D30 122mm howitzer on truck. First prototype have no auto loader, so on this Partner we will see second prototype with auto loader. There is also SPG named SOKO, with 105mm gun who looks similar. By end of weeks we should have more and better pictures, because Partner 2013 is closed for civilians until Friday.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

COIN Kobac:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

Lazar 2 inside:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Luftwaffe

proka89 said:


>



Would be great for COIN

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## Luftwaffe

@proka89 awesome pics.

So Lazar 2 are just purchases or is there any deal for under license production in Pakistan, could you provide information.


----------



## proka89

Luftwaffe said:


> @proka89 awesome pics.
> 
> So Lazar 2 are just purchases or is there any deal for under license production in Pakistan, could you provide information.



I have no further information for now. Pakistan bought three vehicles, and they will be delivered until the end of the year. Then Pakistan army needs to test vehicles, and if they are satisfied with the product, they will sign a deal for more. I don't know now what kind of deal that could be, but if i need to guess, i would say that most probably small part of the order will be built in Serbia (between 15-30%) and rest will be made in Pakistan, with partial or complete transfer of technology. But that is just my guess.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89

More of the Lazar 2 inside:





Nora B52 without armor:

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## proka89

Lazar 2

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89

SORA 122mm with autoloader:





Kobac COIN cockpit:





Pegaz UAV control center:











BOV M10:





Lazar 2:

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## BDforever

@proka89 bro.. this is so cool and bada$$ picture of serbian army

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

ALAS

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

Serbian defence Company YugoImport presents its full range of wheeled self-propelled howitzer 260613*-*Army Recognition

Reactions: Like Like:
4


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89

You will have to register on this site, to see some of the pictures. They are great, but there is protection.

http://www.paluba.info/smf/index.php

I have link them, but you will not be able to see the pics, if you are not logged in. It's a Serbian military forum, and they will have more of the great pics from Partner 2013.

*So above are not the empty posts *


----------



## Kompromat

@proka89 

Do you have more information about the Serbian NLOS system.?


----------



## proka89

Aeronaut said:


> @proka89
> 
> Do you have more information about the Serbian NLOS system.?



Only that UAE maybe week ago paid first rate of 220 million $ for R&D. On the Partner guys around ALAS said to one member of the forum i am on, that now when they have stable financing of the project everything is going according to plan.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

@Aeronaut

Not from Partner 2013, but if you are interested in ALAS:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kompromat

Is ALAS a fully autonomous system?

What are the specs, ie range,speed,warhead,guidance system etc?

I really like this system for anti tank role.

Is Bumber wire guided?


----------



## proka89

Aeronaut said:


> Is ALAS a fully autonomous system?
> 
> What are the specs, ie range,speed,warhead,guidance system etc?
> 
> I really like this system for anti tank role.
> 
> Is Bumber wire guided?



ALAS will probably be consisted from launching vehicle, command and control center (vehicle), logistic vehicle for ammo resupply. and with all there will be probably completely autonomous. What you see now is only the testbed, the final version should have launching vehicle with 8 rockets in a containers.



> ALAS is a 55 kg, turbojet powered, camera-guided missile that uses inertial guidance along a pre-programmed flight path around or over obstructing terrain, with a link back to an operator for target identification, selection, and guidance. The camera can be either TV or infrared, but must be pre-loaded in advance. Guidance is expected to use fiber optic cable, with an option for an encrypted radio link. Carrying platforms are expected to be land vehicles, ships, and sometimes naval helicopters.



So right now ALAS is not fully fire and forget sistem. Basic concept of use should be something like this:

- UAV, reconnaissance vehicle or team spots the enemy
- They are sendig approximate location of the enemy force
- According to that ALAS is launched, and guided by inertial guidance system in the selected zone (where the enemy was spotted), in that phase of flight operator does not need to control the missile.
- After reaching the designated zone, operator takes the control over the missile, and locks the final target.

For now ALAS is using fiber optic cable, and has a range of 25 km, with a speed of 200 m/s. Similar to Polyphem (canceled) missile. Let's be honest it's not the ideal, bu it will do the job, and it will be much cheaper, than the competition. LORANA is similar to ALAS, but with less range (9km), and more speed.

According to Yugoimport they are planning to develop in the future a fier and forget version of the ALAS, and they also plan to develop something in the sector of loitering munition, also based on ALAS project. 

Final version of this should be finished in a year.

Bumbar is wire guided.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89

*Again great pictures from Paluba info, but you must register to see them.*

PALUBA - Index

It's only a minute of work, so don't be lazy.

Nice view on a driver seat in Lazar 2:




On the display in the left side are engine parameters, and one in front of the wheel is for driving.

Commander seat in Lazar 2:





About Lazar 2 they said to the author of this photos, that vehicle is in the phase between prototype and functional model. Many things will be changed, and upgraded through the tests in the future.

Autoloader in Nora B 52 K2:





Devices for fire control systems that goes with Nora:





Display with a data from fire control system for Nora B 52:





Rocket launcher M91 120 mm:





On the left thermobaric rocket for Osa M79 90mm rocket launcher. On the right cumulative rocket for M91:


----------



## proka89

9K11 Malyutka with a new warheads:





Automatized anti tank system based on M91:





Inertial navigation system made by Serbian MTI:















Stabilization system for UAV Vrabac:


----------



## proka89

System for acoustic source localization HEMERA:





Tank engine transmission made for modernization of M84 tank (1200 KS):















Tank engine module for easy removal from the tank (1000 KS):


----------



## proka89

More of the Lazar 2:


----------



## Kompromat

Images aren't visible.


----------



## CheefCoach

On Paluba they are not. You need to register to see them, but most of pictures are here anyway. Tomorrow fair will be open for civilians so there will be much more pictures and informations. Lazar 2 is still prototype, so there will be some changes until we reach series production.


----------



## proka89

Aeronaut said:


> Images aren't visible.



PALUBA - Index

You have to register, they have protection. But i already posted images here, so you only need to register there, and you will see them all.


----------



## proka89

Fire protection system for tanks:





Tank ECU





Bad start engine protection for tank engines





ALAS


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BDforever

@proka89 bro seems like we are becoming good defence partner 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-light-armored-reconnaissance-vehicle-ba.html


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

BDforever said:


> @proka89 bro seems like we are becoming good defence partner
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...-light-armored-reconnaissance-vehicle-ba.html



Pay attention on the color of Nora B 52 in the post above this one

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## BDforever

proka89 said:


>



bro russia really misses you 
BD should go for that assault rifle and RPG

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CheefCoach

Why Russia? Don't let YI fool you, Bumbar (that is RPG) is still in testing phase. It will have SACLOS wire guided aiming system. It should penetrate 700-800 RHA (tandem warhead so ERA isn't problem) at ranges to 500 m, and having soft launch (so it will be able to be shot out of cover). Not technologically most advanced system, but still cheap and effective. 
Zastava M 21 is available for purchase. It keeps good quality of AK, but it have increased accuracy (up to 600 m with optical site).


----------



## proka89

Bumbar is getting new warhead that will be able to penetrate over 800mm behind reactive armor. It is also getting thermovision and laser range finders, with an option of fusing termo and regular camera in one picture. Range is from 60 m up to 600 m, with an option of indoor launching. Also range is easily increased to 1000 m, but serbian defence industry first needs to find a potential buyer who wants that, or to wait for Serbian army to finally pay them to do so. They don't have luxury to develop expensive systems on their own.






This is new guidance system for Bumbar with a termovison and laser range finder.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CheefCoach

Yeah, we are accepting pre-orders. If somebody buy some now, they will get great deal, and we will have enough money to quickly Finnish R&D. UAE did that with ALAS missiles, and Pakistan pre-ordered some Lazar 2 vehicle.


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89

Kobac COIN cockpit:





Milica vheicle with two Osa 79 rocket launchers:




Bumblebee:




HEMERA - System for acoustic source localization:




Nora B52 K2:









SORA 122mm:














Lazar 2 from the back:

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

Lazar 2:














Lasta 95 P2:




Lazar 1:









Part of the control system for ALAS missile:




ALAS:




ALAS command vehicle:




ALAS launch vehicle:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@proka89 dude alteast label ur pictures...

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

Field tent for one person:




Zastava arms hunting rifles:




Zastava arms military program:




Zastava arms sniper rifles:




SOKO 122mm:




BOV M11:




BOV with triple 20mm cannons and strela missiles









Serbian army M10 uniform:


----------



## CheefCoach

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> @proka89 dude alteast label ur pictures...


He never do that. He assume that everybody knows what it is on picture. We on mycity-military forum usually do. 
In meantime little clarification:
The 8x8 IFV with same color is new Lazar 2. One with camouflage pattern is Lazar 1. The truck with 4 missile container is ALAS. Big RPG is BUMBAR. MRL is MORAVA. The SPG with long barrel is NORA B52, that spg came on Partner with 2 variants. 4x4 Armored car is BOV. Blue-white plane is Lasta 95, and gray is KOBAC. SPG with two revolver drum (on video too) is SORA. Small robot with 2 rpgs is MILICA. There is one BOV in AA variant which is made for God knows who. There is also some electronic equipment and some trucks, jeeps... NORA, Lasta 95 and BOVs are enter into armies. Rest are prototypes. I forgot, small UAV is GAVRAN and big is PEGAZ. Small is just finished, big one is prototype. 
If you notices there is a lot of projects in development. That is because we don't have a lot of money for R&D so we are hoping that some early orders will help us. Military industry of Serbia is working to make World safer place .

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

CheefCoach said:


> He never do that. He assume that everybody knows what it is on picture. We on mycity-military forum usually do.
> In meantime little clarification:
> The 8x8 IFV with same color is new Lazar 2. One with camouflage pattern is Lazar 1. The truck with 4 missile container is ALAS. Big RPG is BUMBAR. MRL is MORAVA. The SPG with long barrel is NORA B52, that spg came on Partner with 2 variants. 4x4 Armored car is BOV. Blue-white plane is Lasta 95, and gray is KOBAC. SPG with two revolver drum (on video too) is SORA. Small robot with 2 rpgs is MILICA. There is one BOV in AA variant which is made for God knows who. There is also some electronic equipment and some trucks, jeeps... NORA, Lasta 95 and BOVs are enter into armies. Rest are prototypes. I forgot, small UAV is GAVRAN and big is PEGAZ. Small is just finished, big one is prototype.
> If you notices there is a lot of projects in development. That is because we don't have a lot of money for R&D so we are hoping that some early orders will help us. Military industry of Serbia is working to make World safer place .



I know abt nora,alas,lazar,lasta etc... but many posters arent aware.... as for money... same goes for our country.. hope we cooperate more...

Btwn zastava arms look nice...


----------



## proka89

Lazar 2 driver seat:

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

proka89 said:


>



.... wont mind them invading my house.. ... on a serious note.. is that armoured or just assembled in Serbia?


----------



## proka89

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> .... wont mind them invading my house.. ... on a serious note.. is that armoured or just assembled in Serbia?



That is MIP 11 inside land rover defender.

Reactions: Like Like:
3


----------



## CheefCoach

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> .... wont mind them invading my house.. ... on a serious note.. is that armoured or just assembled in Serbia?


I believe that vehicle carry some sort of sensor. You see the pole that stick up behind the girls. Who ever toke that picture had something else on his mind .
A lot of sensors were showed on that fair, for those who like that sort of things. Most people prefer to watch planes and guns. They show some staff which generally don't need to be there, but army made sort of tactical technical assembly (TTA), which is sort of military parade. On TTA they show one weapon of each kind and they allow people to see that at close-that bringing military and people closer together and creating sort of bond between them. That why you can see humvey on Fair which were donated by USA, and they don't have any connection with Serbian military industry or aren't planed for sale.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

> Serbia invites Azerbaijan to participate in &#8220;Future soldier&#8221; gear project
> 
> [ 29 Juny 2013 17:06 ]
> 
> Baku. Rashad Suleymanov &#8211; APA. Serbia has invited Azerbaijan to participate in the project VB-10 (Vojnik Budocnosti-10) &#8220;Future soldier&#8221;, APA reports quoting military sources.
> 
> Serbian Yugoimport SPDR Company offered Azerbaijan direct sale or joint production of the mentioned gear. For the present, the Azerbaijani side is studying this system.
> 
> VB-10 meets requirements of Azerbaijan Armed Forces in terms of weapon set and other elements. VB-10 gear was demonstrated in the exhibitions held in different countries. *Several Arabian countries and Pakistan expressed their interest in this system.*
> 
> Azerbaijan has announced that it started work on establishment of &#8220;Future soldier&#8221; gear in 2012. The work in this sphere is on the concept level.
> 
> &#8220;Future soldier&#8221; project will include modern communication devices, optic and thermal vision, cameras, cameras to follow the battlefield and transfer the information to the center, standard weapons, modern uniform based on nano-technologies and etc.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

Partner 2013 Fair


> The First Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Aleksandar Vu&#269;i&#263; opened the 6th International Fair of arms and military equipment &#8220;Partner 2013&#8221; at the Belgrade Fair.
> 
> On that occasion he said that the &#8220;Partner&#8221; represents the meeting place for R&D and business entities in the field of defence technologies and the opportunity for domestic and foreign partners to establish new and improve existing business and technical cooperation.
> 
> At this fair 92 R&D, service and auxiliary institutions of the Ministry of Defence of the Republic of Serbia participate, together with arms and military equipment manufacturers from country and abroad.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the visitors of this fair Institute presented its special purpose program: Public Alert and Warning system, CTU300 &#8211; Device which provides ciphered full-duplex voice and data transmission over PSTN telephone lines, OpCard &#8211; embedded miniature scrambler, iCD0804 &#8211; Bulk Ciphering Device, Q7 module and PicoITX module intended for 2D/3D vision systems. Together with Military Technical Institute our company IMP-Computer Systems exhibited prototype of the ground station for unmanned aircraft &#8220;Pegaz&#8221; and RAPID - solution for providing modern data processing and visualization capabilities to radar systems.


----------



## proka89

*M-84AB1 main battle tank at Partner 2013*

The M-84AB1 is the latest version of the tank pertaining to M-84 series. The three basic parameters of tank concept (fire power, protection and mobility) are substantially improved by this modernization.






The following innovations are built into the modernized tank, namely: new fire control system (connected to four-channel sighting device), passive reconnaissance radar system (FIRS), tank surveillance measuring device (TOMS) (for surveillance, reconnaissance and sighting at night and in conditions of reduced visibility), command information system (CIS) (providing situation awareness, and data display on situational map with the possibility of information sharing), remotely controlled weapon station cal. 12.7 mm, system for prevention of explosive fire, system for engine protection, NBC system, explosive reactive armor (ERA), electro-magnetic protection against mines, air-conditioning, modified running gear, and power pack with 1000 or 1200 KS engine.

Adapted tanks represent an example of successful integration of different subsystems into one entity, thus making the tank more complete and improving its quality as firepower carrier. The subsystems developed in the process of the development of the above mentioned tank may be successfully applied to other types of the tanks pertaining to T series including the families of T-55, T-62 and T-72 tanks, as well as other types of tanks.






The M-84AB1 main battle tank integrated new day/night sighting device DNNS 2ATK with a thermal imager or alternatively, digital fire control system (FCS).

The tank is also equipped with command-information system KIS M84 and the tank commander's TOMS, an universal multi-sensor optoelectronic platform of tank commander.






To increase its self-protection, the M-84AB1 is fitted with the active optoelectronic protection system SOFTKILL, based on integration of laser detection device, radar detection device and smoke grenade launcher with efficient smoke pots in the visible spectrum, IR, thermal and millimeter radar spectra.






Latest generation of modernized YugoImport main battle tank M-84AB1 at Partner 2013 0207133*-*Army Recognition

*Self-propelled ALAS Lorana missile system at Partner 2013*

The ALAS/LORANA family of long range missiles belongs to the category of modern prospective systems of long range guided missiles guided without any visual contact between the operator and the target. The system of guidance of all types of missiles belonging to this family of missiles is based on the application of inertial navigation system (INS) in the mid part of the trajectory which provides for flight against the trajectory planned during preparation of the mission using favorable geographical conditions of the terrain shown on digital map on the console of command information system (CIS) in mission operative center. 








TV guidance consisting of CCD TV/ thermal image camera and two-way data transmission system based on optical cable coiled around the pulley installed in the rear part of the missile which provides for the operator to carry out reconnaissance of the terrain, select the target and terminal self-guidance. Rocket propulsion of LORANA is based on missile engine using solid fuel which provides for the range of 9 km, while ALAS system uses turbojet engine which provides for effective ranges of 25 km and even 50 km, depending of the applied technical solutions of the subsystems, primarily the capacity of the fuel tank and the length of the optical cable.

The design of the system provides for its integration with different army, navy and airborne platforms, as well as engagement of wide range of moving and stationary' dotted land targets and sea targets, and above all engagement of vital targets deep behind the enemy line.

The self-propelled transport, launching and guidance system (TLG) of ALAS missile is developed in the form of a launching module mounted on a wheeled or tracked vehicle chassis and a missile guidance panel integrated in the vehicle cabin.

The launching module consists of a cradle which is movable in traverse and elevation with the electro-mechanical transmission onto which the transport and launching containers are mounted.

The command and information system (CIS) console and TV monitor for missile guidance are built in the operator's colmmand panel. On his CIS console the system operator receives the designated targets with missile trajectories displayed on a digital map as well as the command for engagement.

After launching the missile, the operator guides it by means of a joystick and a two-way device for data transmission (data link) based on the optical fiber, using the given trajectory and TV/thermal imaging of the target zone generated by the homing head cameras which is displayed on the monitor, until the target has been identified and locked, at the maximum distance of 25 km. In the course of the missile guidance, the operator can change the target and abort the mission by himself.






Battalion battery command post of the ALAS missile system is developed in the form of a container type module which is mounted on a wheeled or tracked chassis vehicle.

The command post is equipped with the target observation and tracking system which is carried out by means of the opto-electronic multi-sensor platform and radar, and the command-information system which enables the networking of the battalion battery with the higher command, as well as mission planning and target definition and designation.






The LORANA rocket is designed for operations at distance up to 9 km on movable and non-movable armored and semi-armored targets.

The LORANA rocket is equipped with TV guidance and powered by a sustainer motor with solid propellant and connected with the launching location via optic fiber cable.

http://www.armyrecognition.com/part...es_of_yugoimport_at_partner_2013_0107133.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## proka89

A few more pics:


----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89




----------



## proka89



Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89




----------



## Audio

proka89 said:


>



heya, what kind of FCS (fire control system) do the tanks use?

I'm asking because in the 80's all of this above and FCS was made and developed in Slovenia for use on the M-84 project.
So, i see only FCS is missing from the electronics on the above picture and i wondered if it's still from Fotona (former Iskra Optics in Yugoslavia)?


----------



## proka89

Audio said:


> heya, what kind of FCS (fire control system) do the tanks use?
> 
> I'm asking because in the 80's all of this above and FCS was made and developed in Slovenia for use on the M-84 project.
> So, i see only FCS is missing from the electronics on the above picture and i wondered if it's still from Fotona (former Iskra Optics in Yugoslavia)?



Fire and control system is a made from many things. For example meteorological sensor and laser rangefinder are part of FCS. But i believe that nothing in this modernization is from Slovenia. Maybe i am wrong because i don't know where are produced all parts of the new FCS.


----------



## BDforever

@proka89 what is the price of that UAV ?


----------



## proka89

BDforever said:


> @proka89 what is the price of that UAV ?



If you mean the bigger one, it's called Pegaz, and it's not yet finished.


----------



## BDforever

proka89 said:


> If you mean the bigger one, it's called Pegaz, and it's not yet finished.



i meant the green one , the 3rd picture from top


----------



## proka89

@BDforever
That is Pegaz, and it's not yet in use, it is still in development phase.
http://www.vti.mod.gov.rs/index.php?view=actuality&type=projects&category=1&id=138

And price of it will depend of the equipment it caries. Mission equipment can cost more than UAV

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CheefCoach

BDforever said:


> @proka89 what is the price of that UAV ?


Well YI will selling it, so you know that will cost 2-3 times less than competition .

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

CheefCoach said:


> Well YI will selling it, so you know that will cost 2-3 times less than competition .



Hardly. Maybe 30% (i think i have read that somewhere). UAVs are expensive toys, doesn't matter who is the producer. We can be cheaper because we are not selling the "name" like some famous companies, and we have way cheaper development and production costs (because of the salary rate), but again even chinese products are not 3 times cheaper.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Kompromat

@proka89 

Does Serbia manufacture any self propelled mortars?


----------



## proka89

Aeronaut said:


> @proka89
> 
> Does Serbia manufacture any self propelled mortars?



No we dont.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Audio

proka89 said:


> Fire and control system is a made from many things. For example meteorological sensor and laser rangefinder are part of FCS. But i believe that nothing in this modernization is from Slovenia. Maybe i am wrong because i don't know where are produced all parts of the new FCS.




Sorry, i worded it incorrectly, i meant the firing computer which takes data from those things (meteo sensor, laser rangefinder, the laser system that measures the deformation of the barrel before each shot etc)..

I went through the whole thread yesterday, seems Serbia retained all but aerospace sector (which was in Mostar, Bosnia in the common country) with the exception of UTVA while adding some new abilities, like the heavier wheel APC and the wheeled howitzer family.
Coincidentally the old BOV version (with the 3x 20mm cannon) was originally also produced in Slovenia, newer (Serbian) version looks great though, like Cadillac-Gage Commando family.


----------



## proka89

Audio said:


> Sorry, i worded it incorrectly, i meant the firing computer which takes data from those things (meteo sensor, laser rangefinder, the laser system that measures the deformation of the barrel before each shot etc)..
> 
> I went through the whole thread yesterday, seems Serbia retained all but aerospace sector (which was in Mostar, Bosnia in the common country) with the exception of UTVA while adding some new abilities, like the heavier wheel APC and the wheeled howitzer family.
> Coincidentally the old BOV version (with the 3x 20mm cannon) was originally also produced in Slovenia, newer (Serbian) version looks great though, like Cadillac-Gage Commando family.



I don't know who is developer of that computer. But this modernization is done using Russian and our products, so it's either something ours, or its Russian, but i can't say for sure. I will ask some guys on Serbian forums about that.

And when we speak about defence industry we have succeeded to retin a large part of ex Yugoslavia defense industry, and now we are improving old designs and making new ones. Because large part of factories needed for production of complex battle systems, were outside of Serbia after the break up, and we were forced to import many things, just to make some of those weapons. For example we were forced to import guns for Nora B 52 from Russia because we didn't have machines needed for production of 52 caliber howitzer guns. And you must have in mind that all our defence factories were heavily damaged in NATO bombing of Yugoslavia in 1999, some of them were practically left with name only, and had to start from the beginning. But in the last few years we have started to seriously invest in our defence industry and in the next few years we will invest even more.

http://vti.mod.gov.rs/film/tehnologije.pdf
This is some plan of implementing new technologies in our defense industry. Some of those things are already acquired (It's on Serbian but you can use google translate ).

And also we are already developing new BOV, which will be longer than BOV M11, able to carry more armor, and whitsatand more explosive under the wheel, it should be used as a patrol vehicle.

Reactions: Like Like:
2


----------



## CheefCoach

Well defense industry in Yugoslavia was spread in all of 6 countries, mostly in Bosnia and Serbia. Bosnia was chosen for high mountains, so plan for defense of the country was to hold those hills until cavalry arrive. 
As times pass out, Serbia needed spear parts for tanks, so local company started to building them and they toke the jobs that use to done by companies outside of Serbia. Also M 84 wasn't 100% build in Yugoslavia because some parts were imported. Right now Serbia don't produce any tank (or any vehicle on tracks). We don't have production facility for tank chassis, but I am sure we could build one if we have need for it. Computer hardware can be easily purchased, because I am not sure does anybody produce them in Serbia. But software is ours. 
Aerospace industry in Yugoslavia always was with imported engines, and same thing is in Serbia. We just don't produce enough planes to be worth building them by ourselves. So Lasta 95 have USA engines (Lycoming AEIO 540-L 1B5.D), and Kobac will have Canadian Pratt & Whitney turboprop engines (1 × Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-62 turboprop, 857 kW). 
Original BOV was made in several variant, that with 3x20 mm is AA version BOV-3. Also there is tank destroyer version BOV-1 with Malutka (AT 3) missiles. We upgraded them to be SACLOS and penetrate 800 mm of RHA and we are still using them. Also there is military police version of BOV which is stile active. BOV was made by TAM in Slovenia (with Deutz engines). New BOVs are made by rebuilding old BOVs which are decommissioned (so chassis is a same, and everything else is changed).

To add one thing on proka post. It isn't very hard for us to build weapons factory, it is hard to sell those weapons to anyone, including even us. If we have big order, then we will probably build or buy factory machines, and acquire license for technologies.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> Well defense industry in Yugoslavia was spread in all of 6 countries, mostly in Bosnia and Serbia. Bosnia was chosen for high mountains, so plan for defense of the country was to hold those hills until cavalry arrive.



The idea was to concentrate the production in an area to which it would take most time if the aggressor came from any direction on land. And yeah, forests and hills of Bosnia made the choice even easier. It is interesting to note, this was primarily aimed at Warsaw pact countries, because that's where the threat was perceived to be the greatest.
As for the cavalry, Tito screwed that in the 50's when he was offered NATO membership. Instead he went on a goose chase to give legitimacy to self important men like him, Nasser and Nehru.
Noone would come if NATO and Warsaw pact fought it over through Yugoslavia. Which iirc was one of the corridors of battle in Russian plans (dash through Yugoslavia to cut off land connection between NATO and Greece, Turkey)



proka89 said:


> I don't know who is developer of that computer. But this modernization is done using Russian and our products, so it's either something ours, or its Russian, but i can't say for sure. I will ask some guys on Serbian forums about that.



Yeah, it's probably different maker, last i heard the company that made it originally for Yugoslavia is now completely into medical lasers research and production. Was just curious. Thanks for the extensive reply.


----------



## CheefCoach

Some civilian and military technologies are similar, so some civilian manufacturer can open military lines of product if demand showed up (nobody will reject good businesses opportunity, but when weapons stop producing company still must find way to make enough money for living). So if somebody order new tank from Serbia (basically from Yugoimport company), then YI will have to find manufacturer of every part either from Serbia, or from rest of the world. That even makes final product cheaper, because company who produce parts must compete between each others. That is one of that reason why weapon system build in Serbia are cheaper than others.
I believe that defense idea of Yugoslavia was if Warsaw union attack, than to wait for NATO help, and if NATO attack to wait of Warsaw union help. If NATO and Warsaw union start fight in Germany, we should stay neutral. 
And yeah, I forgot to mansion, Bosnia was less develop country in Yugoslavia so federal government wanted to get them some jobs too.


----------



## proka89

Serbia can't produce tanks. Maybe some parts for them, and that's it. And it doesn't matter who orders tank from you, that isn't going to change. And secondly nobody will order a tank from a manufacturer who produces 10-20% of that same tank. M84 was made by more than 300 companies form whole Yugoslavia. Only small part of them was in Serbia and even those are ruined now, The same is with other ex Yu republics. We can make what we can, and that is not little consider how small country we are, but living in dream won't help. Serbia can't produce tanks, and it probably never will again.


----------



## CheefCoach

I disagree. Serbia is producing more components for M 84 now, that it used in Yugoslavia, because it need spear parts. Yugoslavia couldn't produce M 84 until invested 3B dollars into defense industry. If we again invest several billion dollars we will have tank production capacity, and what we can't build ourselves we can import. But for starting tank production it require around 1000 tanks, so it isn't likely to be started to produce in Serbia. 
But if somebody like M 84, I am sure that we can buy old T 72, and build M 84 out of them. Electronic more less we have (rest we can purchase), auto loader we can produce, gun we import (but with small investment we can do that too), engines we can buy or we can buy license; and here it is tank.
A lot of Serbia made weapon system aren't 100% Serbian. Nora sold to Bangladesh have Kamaz chassis and Russian made guns. I think only design, auto loader and FCS are Serbian (or mostly Serbian anyway), and still it work. Customers wants weapons to be good and cheap, and usually don't care where parts came from.


----------



## proka89

CheefCoach said:


> I disagree. Serbia is producing more components for M 84 now, that it used in Yugoslavia, because it need spear parts. Yugoslavia couldn't produce M 84 until invested 3B dollars into defense industry. If we again invest several billion dollars we will have tank production capacity, and what we can't build ourselves we can import. But for starting tank production it require around 1000 tanks, so it isn't likely to be started to produce in Serbia.
> But if somebody like M 84, I am sure that we can buy old T 72, and build M 84 out of them. Electronic more less we have (rest we can purchase), auto loader we can produce, gun we import (but with small investment we can do that too), engines we can buy or we can buy license; and here it is tank.
> A lot of Serbia made weapon system aren't 100% Serbian. Nora sold to Bangladesh have Kamaz chassis and Russian made guns. I think only design, auto loader and FCS are Serbian (or mostly Serbian anyway), and still it work. Customers wants weapons to be good and cheap, and usually don't care where parts came from.



Name the components that are in production in Serbia. Around 15 M84 are out of service near Smederevska Palanka, and we are not even able to fix them. Read what Vladimir Ivanovic has written about tank production in ex Yugoslav republics. Autoloader for M84 we can't produce, it was produced by Sever Subotica, and that is practically dead company now. Most important part of the electronics we don't have. Name me the electronics for modernized 84 that we are producing. Making a tank is not the same as making the self propelled wheeled howitzer. And saying we can't produce something but we can buy license, is ridiculous. Everyone can buy license, but first of all you need to have a lot of money which we dont have, and than you need to invest a lot of money in facilities, but guess what again, we don't have a lot of money. So stop speaking nonsense. Serbia will produce tanks again when pigs start to fly. You cant make good and cheap tank if someone else is gonna develop that tank for you, and than you will have to import 70% of that tank any way.


----------



## CheefCoach

Vladimir Ivanovic is grumpy man. From weapon engineer he moved to be IT guy in TV station. Based on his comment, he is greatest tank repair man in world history. 
{danas.rs/danasrs/drustvo/terazije/vracanje_tenkovskog_duga_kuvajtu.14.html?news_id=214977, oklop.net23.net/vlado/}
Same company that are producing auto loader for Nora can produce auto loader for M 84. You put yourself company that can produce electronic, senzor-infriz, and there are more of them, at least for M 84, modernized M 84 is practically T 90. We still have blueprints for tank. One thing is saying that we can't build tank, and completely other thing is saying that we won't. I agree we won't, it is not economically worth building tank. How many M 84 were build, maybe 750 top, so cost of single M 84 was 4,7 M $ from '80ties. That is like 9 M $ today; for what is essentially T 72 with western FCS. I believe I read that camera on M 84 was American, and heard that laser and some more component were Swedish. Am I right, who knows, this is forum, I can write BS. So Yugoslavia government bought license for T 72, and invested 3 billion dollars into weapon industry. That is how we produced tanks. On same way we can do it again. But Yugoslavia needed 1500 tanks, Serbia maybe need 150, and not before 2040. 
Yugoimport have his philosophy and I understand that. They are doing what is profitable. So they will bought old T 72 tanks, and Belorussian or Russian components, bring that into Serbia, and assembly. If it is possible, they will invest into some Serbian company to produce some of parts. And they will sell it. Can Russian do same thing? Yes they can, but they might charge some extra. Or maybe there is politic involved. Russian don't want to sell something to some country, or some country don't want to buy from Russia. Or Russian want some political favors for weapons... So Yugoimport step in to broke a deal, it is primarily trade company. If there is profit they will find way to deliver, even if they have to hire foreigner experts.


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> for what is essentially T 72 with western FCS.





> Fotona has built the largest quantity of Fire Control Systems for T-55 / T-72 / M-84 tanks outside of the former Soviet Union.



Fire control systems | Fotona



CheefCoach said:


> I believe I read that camera on M 84 was American, and heard that laser and some more component were Swedish.





> As one of the early innovators of laser technology, the first products offered by Fotona to the defense market date back some 35 years.



Fotona Defense Lasers | Fotona

Not to advertize to much, point is vast majority of the systems on the M-84 were domestically built in the country.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

@CheefCoach

Vladimir Ivanovic is one of the best tank experts in the world, not according to him, but according to many other people around the world. Who are you to conclude that man who is one of the constructors of M84, who was working on tank modernization, upgrades and building in states as China, Iran, Pakistan..... is a grumpy man. Do you seriously believe that your knowledge about tanks and tank industry is bigger than his, or S. Palestinac and many other tank experts from ex Yu who are saying the same.

And you didn't answer to none of my questions. Because you obviously don't know the answers on them. And auto loader for Nora is not the same as auto loader for M84. Saying that you can produce one just because you are producing another is just clearly stupid. Senzor infiz iz producing meteo sensors and laser range finders, do you have any idea how many more of various electronic devices, that are more complicated than that are needed for tank to work?

If we follow your logic even Malta, Vatican and Morocco can build tanks, they just need to invest billions of dollars in development, license, and production.

And rest of your post, is obviously just another part of you fiction because it has nothing to do with reality.
@Audio
Just found out that Fotona is not anymore in defense industry, they have shut down that part of their production and development.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> Nora sold to Bangladesh have Kamaz chassis and Russian made guns.



Says here barrels for Kenyan and Bangladeshi Nora's are made in Slovenia.

Namenska industrija Srbije - Vesti - Page 23

4th post from the top with link.



proka89 said:


> Just found out that Fotona is not anymore in defense industry, they have shut down that part of their production and development.



Yeah, thought so.


----------



## proka89

Audio said:


> Says here barrels for Kenyan and Bangladeshi Nora's are made in Slovenia.
> 
> Namenska industrija Srbije - Vesti - Page 23
> 
> 4th post from the top with link.



I think that at first they were from Slovenia, but later we started to acquire them from Russia.Soon PPT factory from serbia should be able to produce them.


----------



## Audio

proka89 said:


> I think that at first they were from Slovenia, but later we started to acquire them from Russia.Soon PPT factory from serbia should be able to produce them.



Oh well, i wouldn't know for certain, was just curious.


----------



## CheefCoach

With enough money I can produce tanks. I will hire somebody who knows how that is done, maybe mr. Ivanovic . I like the dude as far i know him (which is from his posts) but I don't like fact that he didn't leave enough apprentices and books to his knowledge be past on future generations. He should found his own tank repair company, but world isn't ideal place. 
Every auto loader is essentially robot, if you know how to build one of them, you know how to build all of them. Senzor infriz and similar defense industry that build parts of electronic, if they get enough funds and blueprints they can expend their business to entire FCS. They can learn, and they can hire expert who knows. Or fotona can restart it's defense industry program if there is buyer.
Problem with tank building is firstly that M 84 is already outdated tank. We can never get that top technology. Secondly there isn't so big need for tanks this days, it use to Yugoslavia to have 1500 of them, and now maybe only US need so many of those steel monsters. As demand for tank is dropping, and investment required to them be able to produce, in future only few will produce tanks. USA, Russia, China, maybe India, several countries of EU... Probably countries will join in to share a cost and create a market. And anti tank weapons are better and better, soon ALAS will be able to take out the best modern tank. And yes conclusion, you have to sell enough tanks to pay off investment, research and development of those. Because of civil war, M 84 never done that.
I found information that on M 84AS is Thales camera and that engine is still build in FMSN Pale.


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> I found information that on M 84AS is Thales camera



Thanks, i need to clarify that in my posts i always meant the M-84A version produced in the 80's, not the modernized M-84AS.


----------



## vostok

Serbian brothers, how did it happen? 30 years ago we and you had big, thriving, mighty states. We lived in peace and wealthy... Where all those things gone?


----------



## CheefCoach

Well if you want to know details about old M 84 and M 84A the best place for asking is paluba.info (???.paluba.info/smf/index.php/topic,1473.2205.html). I don't have enough posts to put links, but you can handle that. There you can find engineers, mentioned here, who actually participated in building tank at first place. Proka and me are just recycling Intel gated from them. 
Version M 84AS is YI (that is Yugoimport) modernization of old tank. Because we don't produce some/most of the components they are buying them from all over the World, who ever give the best price for quality. I guess engines are from Pale (RS,Bosnia), and i don't know who is building rest of power pack. FCS is some combination of France and Russian parts. Serbia have 212 active tanks M 84 and maybe 20ish more in reserve, so we will modernize them some day. That will cost around 200 M $. It is not enough to justify research & development, so we will just buy what we need. YI can do same for any other M 84 or T 72, for about 1 M$ per tank. Croatia also do modernization of M 84 called Degman, and they use Fotona FCS, at least that was their plan. I guess Fotona was tired waiting for them to start doing modernization.
We are more concentrated on wheel based weapons systems, on anti-tank and artillery missiles, artillery shells, UAV and training aircrafts.


----------



## CheefCoach

vostok said:


> Serbian brothers, how did it happen? 30 years ago we and you had big, thriving, mighty states. We lived in peace and wealthy... Where all those things gone?


Americans induced economical crisis (we helped that too) and than CIA persuade politician to drag people into civil war. And idiots listen to them. 
Dunno, I was born at end of 1987.


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> Americans induced economical crisis (we helped that too) and than CIA persuade politician to drag people into civil war. And idiots listen to them.
> Dunno, I was born at end of 1987.



lol, no 

Central planning was the culprit. And wannabe hegemony of bigger republics who couldn't pay their fair share to the federal budget. 
I wouldn't know about CIA but in the end of the 80's politicians needed no convincing, especially Serbian and one in particular were very skilled in exploiting populist nationalistic tendencies brought about by the above described economic mismanagement.


----------



## CheefCoach

Well lets not hijack topic with off topics, despite fact that this is very liberal forum. In Yugoslavia it wasn't central planing. Every republic plan for it's self (and every company manage itself), so we did end up for example with hole bunch of Oil Refinery (I think 5 of them), and all states borrow money thru federal government to build them (there was new build factories that never open up). But thing in Yugoslavia is that federal government don't have any federal taxes, so states actually pay part of their taxes for federal budget. Than some of them (mostly Slovenia ad Croatia) refuse to pay to FG, and than FG decide to print money instead. Addition to that IMF told FG that it is over debt so it can't borrow money any more (and debt was around 20%), so Yugoslavia can't import anything (all expert goes for servicing debt). 
In that situation it wasn't hard to CIA find nationalistic and nazistic politician to bring down socialism. Not to mansion nationalism and ethnic intolerance that some people present. 
Or to put simply, when there is no money, there is no love between people! 
And I was born after all that so I am not expert.


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> And I was born after all that so I am not expert.



You should remember this next time before you write such an in-depth post absolving Serbs of all guilt. It was hilarious, but at the same time depressing to read in 2013.
FYI, Slovenia with 1/13th of populace made 1/3rd of all export and 1/5th of GDP of the entire country. And you wonder why we refused to pay up.
And yes, central planning, companies got lax, there was no competition, everyone was having a good time on the federal (borrowed, yes) money. Since everything they made in excess of needs became immediately government property and companies didn't really own their profit there was no need for streamlining operations, cost cutting and increasing of profits, diminishing their competitiveness.
In this kind of atmosphere small and medium sized enterprises (backbone of every major economy) couldn't flourish. And the economy was in a slow death spiral, by the end of 80's.


----------



## CheefCoach

We really should stop discuss this thing on this topic. I don't absolve anybody of guilt, everybody was equally guilty. Slovenians and Croatians enter Yugoslavia on free will. We all together make all decision. Every state have equal power in federal government, and everything was done with national key. Economy was socialistic, and it purpose was to make everyone employed. Slovenians and Croatians now want to shift all blame to Serbs, despite that they have more power than Serbians. Tito was half Croat and half Slovenian, Kardelj was Slovenian... 
And this is topic about Partner 2013, if you want to talk about economy and Yugoslavia, we should find another place, ok.


----------



## Audio

CheefCoach said:


> And this is topic about Partner 2013



Yes, yes, i apologize.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CheefCoach

!!!.mycity-military.com/Oklopna-tehnika/Srpsko-visenamensko-oklopno-vozilo-Lazar_226.html
You can find picture and tech info for M91E RWS which is designed for BVP 80 Vidra vehicle. On Lazar 2 is modified M91E, for now. Gun is now lighter and in NATO caliber (30x173 mm).
Because technical data is on Serbian I will just translate important parts:
-Unstabilized version with M 86 30 mm gun (now changed with new one) and 200 shells, MG 7,62 (2000 rounds), 4 Malyutka AT missiles and 4 smoke screen canister.
-Stabilized version which only have 2 Malyutka missiles (rest is a same).
weight 1782 kg
It can shoot 360 degrees horizontally and from -7 to 65 degrees in vertically. It zoom 5.3 times for land targets and 1.1 for airborne targets. 
That turret is old version so don't take things literately. FCS is improved. We have club in our army called Malyutka in 21. century , but it is improved. Foreign buyers will probably getting another AT missiles or none.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

*Bumbar antitank missile to finish acceptance tests in 2013*

_Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets_



> Serbia's indigenously developed PORS (Protivoklopni Raketni Sistem) Bumbar short-range antitank missile system is expected to complete its service-acceptance tests by the end of 2013.
> 
> Working under a low-rate initial production (LRIP) contract, the Krusik Holding Corporation from Valjevo built an initial batch of systems in 2012-13. This batch has now been completed and, according to Serbian internet sources, 50 missiles have been delivered.
> 
> The basic system delivered during this LRIP phase consists of a 136 mm POVR (Protivoklopna Vodjena Raketa) missile in a transporting-launching container, the UVL (Uredzay za Vodzenye i Lansiranye) firing post, and a tripod or bipod mount.
> 
> The PORS Bumbar system has suffered a problem faced by many other systems created in the former Yugoslavia or former Soviet Union in recent decades. When initially designed 10-20 years ago, these projects used the most modern components available at the time. However, the delays created by persistent underfinancing due to the turbulent economic and political climate often resulted in some of the subsystems (mostly electronic and optronic) becoming obsolete, even before serial production could begin.









_The largest window on the new optical unit developed for the production version of the Bumbar firing post is for the thermal camera. The three horizontal windows are for the daytime television camera (left), the narrow field-of-view guidance camera (centre), and the wide field-of-view guidance camera (right). The two windows to the right of the thermal camera are for the laser rangefinder. (Miroslav Gy&uuml;r&ouml;si)_



> In the case of the PORS Bumbar system, designers have opted to replace the original UVL, which weighs 4.5 kg, by a new version that offers improved capabilities and lighter weight, before committing the system to full-scale production. The optical head for the revised design was shown for the first time by the VTI Military-Technical Institute during the Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade.
> 
> The missile is 931.7 mm long, 136 mm in diameter, and weighs 12.2 kg. The composite-based transporting-launching tube is 1,164 mm long and weighs 1.5 kg.
> 
> An ejection rocket motor containing 100 g of smokeless double-base propellant enables soft launching at an initial velocity of 18 m/sec, allowing the weapon to be shoulder-fired and used from within confined spaces.
> 
> The sustainer rocket motor contains 2 kg of smokeless double-base propellant and accelerates the missile to a maximum velocity of 250 m/sec.
> 
> The precursor component of the tandem-shaped charge warhead is 25 mm in diameter, weighs 200 g, and contains 30 g of explosive filling. The main warhead is 136 mm in diameter, weighs 3.6 kg, and contains 2.6 kg of explosive filling.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

*Serbia's LRSVM Morava MRL begins final tests*

_Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets _








> Development of Serbia's new LRSVM (Lanser Raketni Vishecevni Samokhodni Modularni) Morava modular multiple rocket launcher (MRL) is almost complete. Initial trials of the system vehicles started at the Jastrepac proving ground on 22 July, with the first 10 days earmarked mostly for tests of the mechanical, driving, and manoeuvring characteristics.
> 
> The first phase of these trials is due to end in August. Further trials are likely to follow and be completed by the end of the year, allowing serial production to begin in 2015.
> 
> During the recent Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade, the VTI (Voyno-Tehnicski Institut) Military-Technical Institute and its partners in the programme showed the latest version of the system's launch vehicle, and a prototype of the system's logistical vehicle. Both are based on the Serbian-made FAP 1118 BS/AV 4x4 truck chassis. An LRSVM Morava battery will consist of four self-propelled launchers and four logistical vehicles.
> 
> The self-propelled launcher is produced by FAP (chassis), IMK 14.oktobar (vehicle superstructure), VTI (unspecified automatic subsystems), and EI-Opec (the electronic launching subsystem). The logistical vehicle is produced by FAP (chassis), IMK 14.oktobar (crane) and Prva Petoletka Namenska (pump and hydraulic components). The launching pods are produced by INhrom.
> 
> VTI did not give details of the subsystems for which it is responsible, but these are probably electro-mechanical devices used to stabilise the vehicle and aim the rockets.
> 
> The self-propelled launcher has a modular design. It features an integrated command-and-control system but can conduct autonomous pre-programmed fire missions. The vehicle's primary navigation system is inertial, with a GPS satellite navigation receiver as the secondary navaid.
> 
> According to the VTI Military-Technical Institute, the fire-preparation time is 45 seconds, and the vehicle cam move off 30 seconds after firing its last rocket.
> 
> The system can use four different types of rocket:
> 
> - The 128 mm Plamen-A, with a range of 8.6 km
> 
> - The 128 mm Plamen-D, with a range of 12.6 km
> 
> - The 128 mm Oganj, with a range of 22.5 km
> 
> - The 122 mm Grad, with a range up to 35 km.
> 
> All types of rocket are fired from the appropriate pattern of multitube launch pod, and the mounting frame on the launch vehicle can carry two pods for the same calibre of rocket. The Plamen pod has 16 launch tubes, while the Oganj and Grad pods have 12 tubes.
> 
> The launcher and logistic vehicles shown at the exhibition featured redesigned launch pods for all rocket types. These had new patterns of launch tubes, and a box-like cover with a revised shape.
> 
> The development of suitable tubes was undertaken by the KOL-15N Inzenjering in Belgrade, while INhrom was responsible for serial production.
> 
> The first functional model of the new launcher tubes was made from ordinary steel. A block of four tubes was tested in November 2009 using Plamen-S rockets. These were followed in 2010 by long tubes for 128 mm Oganj rockets, and tubes for 122 mm Grad rockets. Both were made from standard steel. Wall thicknesses were 0.6 mm for the Oganj and Grad rockets, and 0.5 mm for the Plamen rockets.
> 
> Unfortunately, these steel tubes experienced a corrosion problem, so by the end of 2011 the material had been changed to stainless steel.
> 
> In January 2012, INhrom began production of tubes made from 0.6 mm thick stainless steel. Static tests of these began in March 2012 and led to the first firing trials in June of the same year.







_The logistic vehicle for the LRSVM Morava MRL is equipped with a crane used to move rocket pods to and from the launch vehicle. _



> Firing trials of complete launcher containers incorporating the new stainless steel tubes were conducted in January 2013. They involved the firing of eight 122 mm Grad rockets and five 128 mm Plamen rockets.
> 
> (KOL-15 N Inzenjering and INhrom have also collaborated to develop and produce launching tubes for 107 mm calibre rockets. These are made from 0.8 mm thick duraluminium, and weigh only 1.6 kg. The equivalent steel tube weighs 3.4 kg).
> 
> The logistic vehicle has a crew of two. It is used to transport rocket pods to the firing position, where it uses its built-in crane to reload the self-propelled launcher. It can carry four pods for Plamen rockets or two pods for Oganj or Grad rockets. The logistic vehicle weighs 1,200 kg when fully loaded, and can tow a trailer with a total weight of up to 5,000 kg.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## proka89

*Serbia to resume Strela-2M production for the air-to-surface role*

_Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets _

At the recent Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade, Serbia displayed the 9M32M missile of the Strela-2M (SA-7 'Grail'). This veteran surface-to-air missile is expected to see service as a semi-active laser guided precision strike weapon. 



> Serbian engineers are working to adapt the Soviet-era 9K32M Strela-2M (SA-7 'Grail') surface-to-air missile for the air-to-surface role, and are planning to resume production of the weapon under the terms of an existing licence from the former Soviet Union.
> 
> Serbian rocket engine development and production company EDePro is completing the development and testing of a new composite rocket motor for the system's 9M32M missile. This will match the characteristics of the original motor.
> 
> It is not clear whether the missile is being returned to production as a man-portable air-defence system (MANPADS), perhaps with a new passive seeker, or whether all new production will be dedicated to the air-to-surface role. The latter will involve replacing the weapon's existing passive infrared homing head with a new semi-active laser (SAL) seeker.
> 
> Serbia is already developing the Pegaz-011 medium-range unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) for the intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance roles, but is now studying the potential strike capability of this 120 kg empty weight UAV. A laser rangefinder and laser target designator for UAV applications are under development.



*EDePro develops new rocket propellant for SA-3 missile*

_Miroslav Gyürösi, Bratislava - IHS Jane's Missiles & Rockets_








> The Serbian rocket engine company EDePro has developed a new propellant filling for the main rocket motor of the 5V27 family of surface-to-air missiles used by the Soviet-era S-125M Neva-M (SA-3 'Goa') missile system.
> 
> The missile is fitted with a tandem-mounted booster, and the new composite grain (propellant charge) - designated 5B29 EX - is intended to replace the original PEKA-18D propellant used in the missile's 5B29 sustainer motor.
> 
> Work on this motor refurbishment scheme started in 2012, and more than five motors filled with the new propellant were tested on EDePro's static test stand in late March 2013. The original Soviet-era 5B29 motor had a burn time of 19-21 seconds, while the new 5B29 EX motor burns for 18-20 seconds.
> 
> Following these successful test firings, which verified the performance of the refilled motor, the company is offering the new propellant to potential customers.







_A model of the new 5B29 EX solid-propellant charge for the sustainer motor of the 5V27 missile used by the Soviet-era S-125M Neva-M (SA-3 'Goa') missile system was displayed at the recent Partner 2013 defence exhibition in Belgrade. _

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## BDforever

@proka89 bro do you have any problem with Belarus ? if not then you should join with us in defence project, Bangladesh and Belarus will start joint defence projects within 1-2 years,  



> &#8220;These areas are the production and modernisation of military equipment and control, communication and electromagnetic warfare systems. The document also provides for the joint work to create new radio-electronic military equipment and weapons and other special-purpose equipment as well as technologies to design and produce such products&#8221; said the Belarusian media report.
> 
> Furthermore, the document also stipulates the exchange of specialists to carry out defensive R&D work, develop and produce military equipment and also transfer technologies. The agreement includes the provisions that guarantee the safety of information that will be obtained in the course of such cooperation. Official and commercial secrets will be protected, too.


Bangladesh-Belarus defence industry cooperation gains momentum - Military Forces of Asia


----------



## proka89

It's not on me to decide , but no we dont have any kind of problems with the Belarus.

B92 - News - "Plenty of room for better economic cooperation"

Belarus is interested in Smederevo steelworks | Vesti | Tanjug

Belarus, Serbia to cooperate in geology - Society / News / Belarus News | Belarusian news | Belarus today | news in Belarus | Minsk news | BELTA - Belarus News | Belarusian news | Belarus today | news in Belarus | Minsk news | BELTA

http://www.vtg.mod.gov.rs/professor...s-visited-the-military-technical-courier.html

Reactions: Like Like:
1


----------



## CheefCoach

Belarus have problems with EU, and Serbia plan is to join EU, but something will eventually work out. Morava missile launcher can also shot some of EDoPro made missiles like R-107 (107mm) and R 122 mm G-2000/G-M (upgraded Grad missiles).


----------



## CheefCoach

I have to make correction. Fire control system on original M 84 was produced and designed by Rudi Cajevac from Banja Luka. After country breakup, Croatia continue to build M 84, but didn't have access to original part suppliers (like Rudi Cajevac who bankrupt) so Fotona develop FCS on it's own which was put into newest Croatian M 84. It is completely different FCS, but both have some part with Bofors licance (not 100% sure).


----------

