# Why Sindhis are genetically no where near Indians(Gujaratis)



## Sindhi(Indus)

As most people know that Sindh borders Balochistan and Gujarat with southern parts of Punjab 

The genetic distance between a Sindhi and a Gujarati is the most in the whole south asian region

Afghan and Pakistani Pashtuns are almost near each other 

Iranian and Pakistani Balochis are near each other 

However Sindhis are between the Balochis and Pashtuns with the Brahui also being near 

The Kashmiri Pandits form the genetic boundary between Pakistanis and the rest of the south asians

The kashmiri pandits are the nearest to south asia

However the beginning of India starts at UP Brahmins 

Many Bollywood actors are UP Brahmins such as the bachaan family so they're the upper class of India 

Sindhis have nothing to do with any Indian whether upper class or lower 

The distance between Pakistanis and Indians is as much as Pakistanis and Uyghers from distance maps

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## Sindhi(Indus)

The genetic boundary between Pakistanis and Indians is Sindhis and Gujaratis.


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## M. Sarmad

SindhiArab said:


> However Sindhis are between the Balochis and Pashtuns with the *Brahui *also being near



You have to prove yourself "FAR" from Brahui people as they speak a Dravidian language.
Do your homework properly first, propaganda baad mein ker laina

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## Sindhi(Indus)

M. Sarmad said:


> You have to prove yourself "FAR" from Brahui people as they speak a Dravidian language.
> Do your homework properly first, propaganda baad mein ker laina


True they might speak a dravidian language however speaking english doesn't make you anglo saxon. 

The brahui have mixed with balochis for so many generations that they're a iranized people who were originally dravidians.

The brahui are also by dress, food and in many other ways not near their dravidian south indian forefathers 

Many brahui speak Sindhi and also eat Sindhi food

The brahui are more Sindhi to me than the Mujhair that invaded our land in 1947 and piled up in Sindh after that

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## Indus Pakistan

M. Sarmad said:


> You have to prove yourself "FAR" from Brahui people as they speak a Dravidian language.


Jamaican's speak English and are Christian but that does make them European or related English.

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## M. Sarmad

Indus Pakistan said:


> Jamaican's speak English and are Christian but that does make them European or related English.



For starters:

One theory is that the Brahui are a relict population of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of Indo-Iranian languages, remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread.

A second theory is that they migrated to Baluchistan from inner India during the early Muslim period of the 13th or 14th centuries.[4]

The third theory says the Brahui migrated to Balochistan from Central India after 1000 AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_people

---
You can keep propagating Indus Nationalism, I have no problem with that.
But you should know what you are talking about

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## Sindhi(Indus)

M. Sarmad said:


> For starters:
> 
> One theory is that the Brahui are a relict population of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of Indo-Iranian languages, remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread.
> 
> A second theory is that they migrated to Baluchistan from inner India during the early Muslim period of the 13th or 14th centuries.[4]
> 
> The third theory says the Brahui migrated to Balochistan from Central India after 1000 AD.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_people
> 
> ---
> You can keep propagating Indus Nationalism, I have no problem with that.
> But you should know what you are talking about



I'm not propogating nationalism at all 

Its your Hindu books that say Persians weren't able to pronounce Sindh when every Persian geographer wrote Sindh without issues and India on their maps 

Its you Hindus that say you're the Indus Valley when you're whole mentality and ways are from the ganges river not Indus 

Its you Hindus that are trying to say that Raja Dhair the brahmin invading tyrant from India was helping Sindhis when in reality he was pealing tongues off of Buddhist Sindhis who went against the guy. There is a reason why Sindhis and Balochis not to mention Jats alsi by majority sided with bin qasim against raja in the past

Everything I'm posting is gene stats from real blood test

The brahui dravidians are apart of the Indus valley and Indus people. 98% of Indians are not apart of the Indus valley

The brahui however have intermixed a lot but they're still more native to sindh than any gangadeshi is now.

That is why genetically Balochis, Sindhis and Brahui are near each other

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## M. Sarmad

SindhiArab said:


> I'm not propogating nationalism at all
> 
> Its your Hindu books that say Persians weren't able to pronounce Sindh when every Persian geographer wrote Sindh without issues and India on their maps
> 
> Its you Hindus that say you're the Indus Valley when you're whole mentality and ways are from the ganges river not Indus
> 
> Its you Hindus that are trying to say that Raja Dhair the brahmin invading tyrant from India was helping Sindhis when in reality he was pealing tongues off of Buddhist Sindhis who went against the guy. There is a reason why Sindhis and Balochis not to mention Jats alsi by majority sided with bin qasim against raja in the past
> 
> Everything I'm posting is gene stats from real blood test



So, anyone who doesn't believe in your stupid propaganda is "Hindu" 

The accuracy of such _gene stats from real blood tests _itself is debatable.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

M. Sarmad said:


> So, anyone who doesn't believe in your stupid propaganda is "Hindu"
> 
> The accuracy of such _gene stats from real blood tests _itself is debatable.



I'm not Indian 

I barely speak urdu well which is the nearest to your languages 

I don't watch bollywood movies at all they seem low grade 

I don't have Indian friends either and literally do not know any Indians 

These gene stats are replicated from ged results and human genome also

Why should Sindhis who literally have no ties with you have anything to do with you

The worst people of south asia are the brahmin jews and their british friends who tried to put somebody from Manipur with their own distinct traditions and ways with somebody from Tamil Nadu. 

Hinduism is no different from Talmudism in any way

The word Hindu to me meant that sleazy Jewish merchant bania who is untrustworthy and tries to justify their reign with fake blue arm man stories and then are hypocrites with their rat temples and also deva dasi ways. 

A lot of upper caste hindus have their genes from khazaria where israelis are from

The mixing with dravidians made you darker but you're still that hindu jew at the end 

The caste system is practiced even in Britain and America. I see you upper caste telling the darker skinned people dalits even in American universities that you're brahmins or banias.

Your Hindu statues have jinns in them that is why they were all drinking milk in 1995 from India to Guyana too

Every place where Hindus are were whether Fiji or Britain had Hindu statues drinking milk at the time and then they all stop too 

Hindus and Jews are from hell trying to bring the rest of the people with them

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## Fatima Khan0007

SindhiArab said:


> As most people know that Sindh borders Balochistan and Gujarat with southern parts of Punjab
> 
> The genetic distance between a Sindhi and a Gujarati is the most in the whole south asian region
> 
> Afghan and Pakistani Pashtuns are almost near each other
> 
> Iranian and Pakistani Balochis are near each other
> 
> However Sindhis are between the Balochis and Pashtuns with the Brahui also being near
> 
> The Kashmiri Pandits form the genetic boundary between Pakistanis and the rest of the south asians
> 
> The kashmiri pandits are the nearest to south asia
> 
> However the beginning of India starts at UP Brahmins
> 
> Many Bollywood actors are UP Brahmins such as the bachaan family so they're the upper class of India
> 
> Sindhis have nothing to do with any Indian whether upper class or lower
> 
> The distance between Pakistanis and Indians is as much as Pakistanis and Uyghers from distance maps
> 
> View attachment 536349
> View attachment 536348


i see a bit of rajasthani culture in our sindh


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## Cherokee

SindhiArab said:


> I'm not Indian
> 
> I barely speak urdu well which is the nearest to your languages
> 
> I don't watch bollywood movies at all they seem low grade
> 
> I don't have Indian friends either and literally do not know any Indians
> 
> These gene stats are replicated from ged results and human genome also
> 
> Why should Sindhis who literally have no ties with you have anything to do with you
> 
> The worst people of south asia are the brahmin jews and their british friends who tried to put somebody from Manipur with their own distinct traditions and ways with somebody from Tamil Nadu.
> 
> Hinduism is no different from Talmudism in any way
> 
> The word Hindu to me meant that sleazy Jewish merchant bania who is untrustworthy and tries to justify their reign with fake blue arm man stories and then are hypocrites with their rat temples and also deva dasi ways.
> 
> A lot of upper caste hindus have their genes from khazaria where israelis are from
> 
> The mixing with dravidians made you darker but you're still that hindu jew at the end
> 
> The caste system is practiced even in Britain and America. I see you upper caste telling the darker skinned people dalits even in American universities that you're brahmins or banias.
> 
> Your Hindu statues have jinns in them that is why they were all drinking milk in 1995 from India to Guyana too
> 
> Every place where Hindus are were whether Fiji or Britain had Hindu statues drinking milk at the time and then they all stop too
> 
> Hindus and Jews are from hell trying to bring the rest of the people with them



Take medications timely .

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## Indian Libertarian

First time I’ve every heard of a “Brahmin Jew”. You do realize that Hinduism and Judaism are two different ideologies? One is a dharmic faith and another is Abrahamic. You can’t equate the two as the same as Hinduism long predates Buddhism. Also, even some of your other Pakistani brothers don’t buy this fake propaganda.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

I'm saying that brahmins originate from khazaria



Fatima Khan0007 said:


> i see a bit of rajasthani culture in our sindh


No I don't see any rajathani or gujarati stuff in our sindh. I see baloch and I see brahui

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## DESERT FIGHTER

M. Sarmad said:


> For starters:
> 
> One theory is that the Brahui are a relict population of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of Indo-Iranian languages, remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread.
> 
> A second theory is that they migrated to Baluchistan from inner India during the early Muslim period of the 13th or 14th centuries.[4]
> 
> The third theory says the Brahui migrated to Balochistan from Central India after 1000 AD.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_people
> 
> ---
> You can keep propagating Indus Nationalism, I have no problem with that.
> But you should know what you are talking about


South indians;





Brahui;








Fatima Khan0007 said:


> i see a bit of rajasthani culture in our sindh


What you see is Hindu Bheels. Who are marwari, Rajhistan, india.



M. Sarmad said:


> You have to prove yourself "FAR" from Brahui people as they speak a Dravidian language.
> Do your homework properly first, propaganda baad mein ker laina


We also have maratha people in Balochistan, who were taken as prisoners/slaves during the battle of Panipat; 
(22,000 men & women were taken as slaves after the battle)

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## M. Sarmad

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> South indians;
> View attachment 536391
> 
> 
> Brahui;
> 
> View attachment 536392
> 
> 
> 
> What you see is Hindu Bheels. Who are marwari, Rajhistan, india.
> 
> 
> We also have maratha people in Balochistan, who were taken as prisoners/slaves during the battle of Panipat;
> (22,000 men & women were taken as slaves after the battle)
> 
> View attachment 536394
> View attachment 536395




Sir, Posting random images doesn't prove anything

And how can you compare a few thousand Maratha war captives to the millions of indigenous Brahui people of Balochistan, spread from the Bolan Pass to the Arabian sea?. There are 29 Brahui tribes and they owe (a loose) allegiance to the Brahui khan of Kalat.

It's true that the Brahui now culturally and ethnically largely resemble the Balochi people around them, with whom they have mixed with substantially but they still speak a Dravidian language. 

And the North/South India divide is primarily linguistic (Indo-European vs Dravidian languages). Studies of the distribution of alleles on the Y chromosome, microsatellite DNA, and mitochondrial DNA in India have already cast overwhelming doubt for a biological Dravidian "race" distinct from non-Dravidians in the Indian subcontinent.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

M. Sarmad said:


> Sir, Posting random images doesn't prove anything
> 
> And how can you compare a few thousand Maratha war captives to the millions of indigenous Brahui people of Balochistan, spread from the Bolan Pass to the Arabian sea?. There are 29 Brahui tribes and they owe (a loose) allegiance to the Brahui khan of Kalat.
> 
> It's true that the Brahui now culturally and ethnically largely resemble the Balochi people around them, with whom they have mixed with substantially but they still speak a Dravidian language.
> 
> And the North/South India divide is primarily linguistic (Indo-European vs Dravidian languages). Studies of the distribution of alleles on the Y chromosome, microsatellite DNA, and mitochondrial DNA in India have already cast overwhelming doubt for a biological Dravidian "race" distinct from non-Dravidians in the Indian subcontinent.


The images prove some points though 

Even some of the south indians in his photo looked mixed with some north indian blood. The pure blood south indians have way different facial features than Brahui. Also generally speaking nobody in south asia pure blood anything. Even Kalash have at least 20% ASI in their genes but due to staying within their race for generations. The facial features didn't go away.

Sindhi village people 






















Tell Tarek Fatah and many other Raw agents to stop spreading misinformation that Sindh was apart of India



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> South indians;
> View attachment 536391
> 
> 
> Brahui;
> 
> View attachment 536392
> 
> 
> 
> What you see is Hindu Bheels. Who are marwari, Rajhistan, india.
> 
> 
> We also have maratha people in Balochistan, who were taken as prisoners/slaves during the battle of Panipat;
> (22,000 men & women were taken as slaves after the battle)
> 
> View attachment 536394
> View attachment 536395


That brahui girl in the bottom left is adorable, she looks like a little desert girl from village sindh. She represents the Sindhi skin tone and mentality. The brown skin for Sindhis is that sandy tone that girl has. We aren't white or Indian looking brown either. 

Sindhi skin is made for the desert and the adaptation is a sandy tone. The Kashmiris and many Pashtuns are from mountains so they look the way they do, not to mention they're also outsiders too 

Indians generally have different skin texture even if their skin tone is similar

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## Taimur Khurram

M. Sarmad said:


> You have to prove yourself "FAR" from Brahui people as they speak a Dravidian language.



Hogwash, only about 15% of their words are shared with Dravidians. They're pretty much just a sub-group of Balochis. 



Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Its you Hindus that are trying to say that Raja Dhair the brahmin invading tyrant from India was helping Sindhis when in reality he was pealing tongues off of Buddhist Sindhis who went against the guy. There is a reason why Sindhis and Balochis not to mention Jats alsi by majority sided with bin qasim against raja in the past



It boggles my mind that people side with Dahir just because he was native. This Indus-worship is so dumb, especially when the ancestors of Pakistanis literally (as you said) fought alongside the Muslim conquerors and assisted them in their campaigns of expansion. 

Muhammad Bin Qasim's army had Gujjars, Balochis and Jats among others. A Sindhi by the name of Mokah Basaya also assisted him in his conquests:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...v=onepage&q=Muhammad Bin Qasim Gurjar&f=false

@M. Sarmad 

You claim to be a proud Gujjar/Pakistani, so I'm curious, what do you make of this?



DESERT FIGHTER said:


> We also have maratha people in Balochistan, who were taken as prisoners/slaves during the battle of Panipat;
> (22,000 men & women were taken as slaves after the battle)



Alhamdulillah, it seems like they're all Muslim now.


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Yeah well bin qasim didn't hurt the Buddhist


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## Talwar e Pakistan

M. Sarmad said:


> You have to prove yourself "FAR" from Brahui people as they speak a Dravidian language.
> Do your homework properly first, propaganda baad mein ker laina


Brahui speak a Dravidian language but in almost every genetic test; they're identical to neighboring ethnic groups. Infact, Brahui had higher Indo-European genetic influence in these tests than they did compared to Pashtuns. 



> Brahui could only have migrated to Balochistan from central India after 1000 CE. The absence of any older Iranian (Avestan) loanwords in Brahui supports this hypothesis. The main Iranian contributor to Brahui vocabulary, Balochi, is a Northwestern Iranian language, and moved to the area from the west only around 1000 CE.[9] One scholar places the migration as late as the 13th or 14th century.[10]





M. Sarmad said:


> So, anyone who doesn't believe in your stupid propaganda is "Hindu"
> 
> The accuracy of such _gene stats from real blood tests _itself is debatable.


I can give you numerous other genetic projects and reports if this one does not satisfy your narrative.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Genes and languages are not related all the time 

Do you honestly think that a Yemeni Arab is genetically related to a Syrian Arab even though they're both Arabs.

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## Super Falcon

Bbecause sindhis are rich in history others have copied them

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## Pakhtoon yum

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> The images prove some points though
> 
> Even some of the south indians in his photo looked mixed with some north indian blood. The pure blood south indians have way different facial features than Brahui. Also generally speaking nobody in south asia pure blood anything. Even Kalash have at least 20% ASI in their genes but due to staying within their race for generations. The facial features didn't go away.
> 
> Sindhi village people
> 
> View attachment 536509
> View attachment 536510
> View attachment 536511
> View attachment 536512
> View attachment 536513
> View attachment 536514
> 
> 
> Tell Tarek Fatah and many other Raw agents to stop spreading misinformation that Sindh was apart of India
> 
> 
> That brahui girl in the bottom left is adorable, she looks like a little desert girl from village sindh. She represents the Sindhi skin tone and mentality. The brown skin for Sindhis is that sandy tone that girl has. We aren't white or Indian looking brown either.
> 
> Sindhi skin is made for the desert and the adaptation is a sandy tone. The Kashmiris and many Pashtuns are from mountains so they look the way they do, not to mention they're also outsiders too
> 
> Indians generally have different skin texture even if their skin tone is similar


We're outsiders? Hahahaha


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## Talwar e Pakistan

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> The Kashmiris and many Pashtuns are from mountains so they look the way they do, not to mention they're also outsiders too


Almost all ethnic groups of Pakistan have a similar genetic makeup. Suggesting we diverged quite recently.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Pakhtoon yum said:


> We're outsiders? Hahahaha


Aren't Pashtuns migrants from Afghanistan? 

I know KPK Pashtuns that are Karlani like Afridis have been at the Kyhber Pass for 3,000 years but Yousefzai and also Durrani are from Afghanistan I've heard.

Many Pashtuns like Khilji have Turkish ancestry

Mind you Ive not read Pashtun history to the fullest extent however they're a lot more diverse than Sindhis because they're more spread out

Many Pashtuns in Kabul virtually look the same as Tajiks too 

Where they stand on genetic stats, Im not sure, however Pakistani Pashtuns are near the Afghan Pashtuns near Khandahar from gene test 

Pashtuns can vary from Tajik looking and also northern central asian looking to even baloch looking depending on the province they live in 

Pashto is Eastern Iranian language 

Pashtuns are an Iranic race of people by majority however some are Turks and Indo Aryans too 

South Indians are a dravidian race

However brahui are genetically Iranic in genes

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## Reichsmarschall

are we witnessing some sort of new Sindhi uprising

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Actually Pashtuns are native to Pashtunistan

They use to call themselves as Pactiyans in the past 

However due to proximity with Huns, Turks, and Tajiks, the Afghan Pashtuns have mixed heavily with them 

I like Pashtuns especially Waziris who are good people

I like that as a whole they don't like to associate with Hindu people 

I like their pashtunwali traditions too 

I watched son of a lion which is a Pashto movie

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## Joe Shearer

@Indus Pakistan

It is for responsible Pakistanis like you to keep these neo-savants off PDF pages.



Sindhi(Indus) said:


> I'm not propogating nationalism at all
> 
> Its your Hindu books that say Persians weren't able to pronounce Sindh when every Persian geographer wrote Sindh without issues and India on their maps



These are the findings of linguists; no Hindu came up with this. 
The words 'Sindh', 'Indus', and 'Hindu' were all traced through their mutual relations by linguists. Hindus had nothing to do with it; Hindus don't even call themselves Hindus.



> Its you Hindus that say you're the Indus Valley when you're whole mentality and ways are from the ganges river not Indus



@Indus Pakistan

Do you see the damage caused by half-baked theories, where some random member talks about 'mentality' being from the Ganges River, and not the Indus? Even the famous racists of the 19th and 20th centuries would flinch at this nonsense.



> Its you Hindus that are trying to say that Raja Dhair the brahmin invading tyrant from India was helping Sindhis when in reality he was pealing tongues off of Buddhist Sindhis who went against the guy. There is a reason why Sindhis and Balochis not to mention Jats alsi by majority sided with bin qasim against raja in the past



Now we get instant invention of history. But it gets better.



> Everything I'm posting is gene stats from real blood test



Racist differences proved by blood tests! Irrefutable. There goes the ANI and the ASI; this budding genius has just blown them into little bits.



> The brahui dravidians are apart of the Indus valley and Indus people. 98% of Indians are not apart of the Indus valley



Now 'dravidians' (sic) are a race. 

On another bulbul melody, 98% Indians are not apart (sic) of the Indus valley. Er, yes, it'd be difficult to fit us all in. That, by itself, geographical dispersion, is not sufficient to distinguish Indians from Indians.



> The brahui however have intermixed a lot but they're still more native to sindh than any gangadeshi is now.
> 
> That is why genetically Balochis, Sindhis and Brahui are near each other



@Indus Pakistan

I'm in whoops of laughter as I read this.

<straightening myself and looking seriously at my keyboard - a keyboard is no laughing matter> 

Prisoner @Indus Pakistan, you are arraigned with serious charges, and the evidence is overwhelming. Co-terminous Pakistan is NOT to be revealed to people with an IQ of less than 50. For those with a middling IQ, between 50 and 75, the idea must be imparted under professional supervision. 
Have you anything to say for yourself before sentence is passed?



Sindhi(Indus) said:


> I'm not Indian
> 
> I barely speak urdu well which is the nearest to your languages
> 
> I don't watch bollywood movies at all they seem low grade
> 
> I don't have Indian friends either and literally do not know any Indians
> 
> These gene stats are replicated from ged results and human genome also
> 
> Why should Sindhis who literally have no ties with you have anything to do with you
> 
> The worst people of south asia are the brahmin jews and their british friends who tried to put somebody from Manipur with their own distinct traditions and ways with somebody from Tamil Nadu.
> 
> Hinduism is no different from Talmudism in any way
> 
> The word Hindu to me meant that sleazy Jewish merchant bania who is untrustworthy and tries to justify their reign with fake blue arm man stories and then are hypocrites with their rat temples and also deva dasi ways.
> 
> A lot of upper caste hindus have their genes from khazaria where israelis are from
> 
> The mixing with dravidians made you darker but you're still that hindu jew at the end
> 
> The caste system is practiced even in Britain and America. I see you upper caste telling the darker skinned people dalits even in American universities that you're brahmins or banias.
> 
> Your Hindu statues have jinns in them that is why they were all drinking milk in 1995 from India to Guyana too
> 
> Every place where Hindus are were whether Fiji or Britain had Hindu statues drinking milk at the time and then they all stop too
> 
> Hindus and Jews are from hell trying to bring the rest of the people with them



Oh, OK, this is a mental case.

Sorry about the jibes; @Indus Pakistan, I apologise.

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## Taimur Khurram

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Aren't Pashtuns migrants from Afghanistan?



Some are some aren't.


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Joe Shearer said:


> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> It is for responsible Pakistanis like you to keep these neo-savants off PDF pages.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the findings of linguists; no Hindu came up with this.
> The words 'Sindh', 'Indus', and 'Hindu' were all traced through their mutual relations by linguists. Hindus had nothing to do with it; Hindus don't even call themselves Hindus.
> 
> 
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> Do you see the damage caused by half-baked theories, where some random member talks about 'mentality' being from the Ganges River, and not the Indus? Even the famous racists of the 19th and 20th centuries would flinch at this nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> Now we get instant invention of history. But it gets better.
> 
> 
> 
> Racist differences proved by blood tests! Irrefutable. There goes the ANI and the ASI; this budding genius has just blown them into little bits.
> 
> 
> 
> Now 'dravidians' (sic) are a race.
> 
> On another bulbul melody, 98% Indians are not apart (sic) of the Indus valley. Er, yes, it'd be difficult to fit us all in. That, by itself, geographical dispersion, is not sufficient to distinguish Indians from Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> I'm in whoops of laughter as I read this.
> 
> <straightening myself and looking seriously at my keyboard - a keyboard is no laughing matter>
> 
> Prisoner @Indus Pakistan, you are arraigned with serious charges, and the evidence is overwhelming. Co-terminous Pakistan is NOT to be revealed to people with an IQ of less than 50. For those with a middling IQ, between 50 and 75, the idea must be imparted under professional supervision.
> Have you anything to say for yourself before sentence is passed?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, OK, this is a mental case.
> 
> Sorry about the jibes; @Indus Pakistan, I apologise.


Which linguist are you talking about? Is there any actual physical account proof that Persians couldn't say S. We need to remember that the only people back then that use to have contact with other people were travellers. Why is Sindhu said properly and also Sindhu listed properly and then right on top of Sindhu on detailed accounts, you have Hindu Kush mountains. Why isn't it named Sindhu Kush mountains? Why don't people call them Indus Kush mountains?

The actual name of the mountain is Hindu Kush mountain. There is no arguments there and Hind was historically after the Indus, there is no mix up on maps there either

Need I remind you that Hindu Kush means Hindu slaughter mountains



Joe Shearer said:


> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> It is for responsible Pakistanis like you to keep these neo-savants off PDF pages.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the findings of linguists; no Hindu came up with this.
> The words 'Sindh', 'Indus', and 'Hindu' were all traced through their mutual relations by linguists. Hindus had nothing to do with it; Hindus don't even call themselves Hindus.
> 
> 
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> Do you see the damage caused by half-baked theories, where some random member talks about 'mentality' being from the Ganges River, and not the Indus? Even the famous racists of the 19th and 20th centuries would flinch at this nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> Now we get instant invention of history. But it gets better.
> 
> 
> 
> Racist differences proved by blood tests! Irrefutable. There goes the ANI and the ASI; this budding genius has just blown them into little bits.
> 
> 
> 
> Now 'dravidians' (sic) are a race.
> 
> On another bulbul melody, 98% Indians are not apart (sic) of the Indus valley. Er, yes, it'd be difficult to fit us all in. That, by itself, geographical dispersion, is not sufficient to distinguish Indians from Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> I'm in whoops of laughter as I read this.
> 
> <straightening myself and looking seriously at my keyboard - a keyboard is no laughing matter>
> 
> Prisoner @Indus Pakistan, you are arraigned with serious charges, and the evidence is overwhelming. Co-terminous Pakistan is NOT to be revealed to people with an IQ of less than 50. For those with a middling IQ, between 50 and 75, the idea must be imparted under professional supervision.
> Have you anything to say for yourself before sentence is passed?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, OK, this is a mental case.
> 
> Sorry about the jibes; @Indus Pakistan, I apologise.


What ANI and ASI? 

You see you Hindus are snakes that twist and turn words nothing more 

ANI means Ancestral North Indian 

ASI means Ancestral South Indian 

These are terms that the Moorjani reports use to say, 

ANI are not actual genetic people

ASI means the dravidians who have no ties to any body out of the subcontinent of India 

The origins of Sindhis and Balochis are not the same but your Moorjani would thrown them into ANI 

Also where do Manipuri mongoloid populations fit into that narrative? Are they ANI or ASI? The Sino Tibetan races are not historically linked to any of them but many Bangladeshis show East Asian mixture in their genes but Tamils don't

ANI doesn't explain Sakas, Hunas, Mughals, Uzbeks, even Arabs 

How would ANI explain that dawood borhas have Yemeni Arab ancestry? 

Just a high resolution analysis would prove the real genetic mixtures of so many races in the region


----------



## fitpOsitive

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> As most people know that Sindh borders Balochistan and Gujarat with southern parts of Punjab
> 
> The genetic distance between a Sindhi and a Gujarati is the most in the whole south asian region
> 
> Afghan and Pakistani Pashtuns are almost near each other
> 
> Iranian and Pakistani Balochis are near each other
> 
> However Sindhis are between the Balochis and Pashtuns with the Brahui also being near
> 
> The Kashmiri Pandits form the genetic boundary between Pakistanis and the rest of the south asians
> 
> The kashmiri pandits are the nearest to south asia
> 
> However the beginning of India starts at UP Brahmins
> 
> Many Bollywood actors are UP Brahmins such as the bachaan family so they're the upper class of India
> 
> Sindhis have nothing to do with any Indian whether upper class or lower
> 
> The distance between Pakistanis and Indians is as much as Pakistanis and Uyghers from distance maps
> 
> View attachment 536349
> View attachment 536348


Sindhis have mostly Arab origin. That's why a Sindhi wife is such a pain


----------



## Sindhi(Indus)

Population cluster maps show the genetic relationship that Sindhis have against other races within the region

PCA plots show that North and South Indians are right next to each other hovering around a majority haplogroup H and that the ONLY group of Indians that as a whole mass do not fit near Indians are northeast Indians who are near Chinese people

Now going by my common sense and most peoples, Manipuris look Mongoloid with some darker skinned, they then on PCA plots are no where near north and south Indians.

The ONLY races within the region that apart from Manipuris do not go near Indians are

Sindhis/Baloch/Pakistani Pashtun/Afghan Pashtun/Kalash/Afghan Tajik/Tajik from Tajikistan

Tajiks also have ASI in their blood at 12% at least and on your Moorjani report, they would be seen as ANI people. However Tajikistan has virtually nothing to do with India. The Tajiks would look at you confused if you say that they're related to you Indians even if your Moorjani report says ANI and ASI of them is that they're 88% ANI and 12% ASI on their blood too



Joe Shearer said:


> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> It is for responsible Pakistanis like you to keep these neo-savants off PDF pages.
> 
> 
> 
> These are the findings of linguists; no Hindu came up with this.
> The words 'Sindh', 'Indus', and 'Hindu' were all traced through their mutual relations by linguists. Hindus had nothing to do with it; Hindus don't even call themselves Hindus.
> 
> 
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> Do you see the damage caused by half-baked theories, where some random member talks about 'mentality' being from the Ganges River, and not the Indus? Even the famous racists of the 19th and 20th centuries would flinch at this nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> Now we get instant invention of history. But it gets better.
> 
> 
> 
> Racist differences proved by blood tests! Irrefutable. There goes the ANI and the ASI; this budding genius has just blown them into little bits.
> 
> 
> 
> Now 'dravidians' (sic) are a race.
> 
> On another bulbul melody, 98% Indians are not apart (sic) of the Indus valley. Er, yes, it'd be difficult to fit us all in. That, by itself, geographical dispersion, is not sufficient to distinguish Indians from Indians.
> 
> 
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> I'm in whoops of laughter as I read this.
> 
> <straightening myself and looking seriously at my keyboard - a keyboard is no laughing matter>
> 
> Prisoner @Indus Pakistan, you are arraigned with serious charges, and the evidence is overwhelming. Co-terminous Pakistan is NOT to be revealed to people with an IQ of less than 50. For those with a middling IQ, between 50 and 75, the idea must be imparted under professional supervision.
> Have you anything to say for yourself before sentence is passed?
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, OK, this is a mental case.
> 
> Sorry about the jibes; @Indus Pakistan, I apologise.


The findings among linguist doesn't take the workings of Al Istakri who is a Persian and wrote a whole extensive historical bases on how Sind and Hind are two different from 

ALL maps show Sindh and Hind as different 

Persians
Arabs
Greeks
Portuguese
Babylonians 

They all had Sindh written and Hind written afterwards on their maps

I've posted the historical maps and references from the actual geographers and travellers on another thread titled why Sindh and Hind were separate from each other

The term Hindu Kush mountain 

The Persian-English dictionary[30] indicates that the word 'koš' [koʃ] is derived from the verb ('koštan' کشتن‬ Persian pronunciation: [koʃˈtæn]), meaning "to kill". According to Francis Joseph Steingass, the word and suffix "-kush" means "a male; (imp. of kushtan in comp.) a killer, who kills, slays, murders, oppresses as _azhdaha-kush_".[31] _A Practical Dictionary of the Persian Language_ gives the meaning of the word _kush_ as "hotbed".[32] According to one interpretation, the name _Hindu Kush_ means "kills the Hindu" or "Hindu killer" and is a reminder of the days when slaves from the Indian subcontinent died in the harsh weather typical of the Afghan mountains while being taken to Central Asia.[25][33][34] _The World Book Encyclopedia_ states that the word _kush_ means death, and was probably given to the mountains because of their dangerous passes.[35]

In his travel memoirs about India, the 14th century Moroccan traveller Muhammad Ibn Battuta mentioned crossing into India via the mountain passes of the Hindu Kush. In his _Rihla_, he mentions these mountains and the history of the range in slave trading.[36][14]Alexander von Humboldt stated that it can be learned from his work that the name only referred to a single mountain pass upon which many Indian slaves died of the cold weather.[37] Battuta wrote,

After this I proceeded to the city of Barwan, in the road to which is a high mountain, covered with snow and exceedingly cold; they call it the Hindu Kush, that is Hindu-slayer, because most of the slaves brought thither from India die on account of the intenseness of the cold.

— Ibn Batutta, Chapter XIII, Rihla – Khorasan


----------



## Joe Shearer

fitpOsitive said:


> Sindhis have mostly Arab origin. That's why a Sindhi wife is such a pain



Darn it, got it now!

@Sindhu(Indus) 

Are you a Sindhi wife?

Magnificent!

Pakistani cricket produces fast bowlers like an assembly line.

PDF produces this sort like an assembly line. 

@Indus Pakistan

I know I'm addressing far too many tags to you, but this situation is too delicious to resist.

Do you realise that you are the Mike Brearley to these donkey-droppers? (note to Moderators: a donkey-drop is a kind of delivery in cricket. It is not intended, at this point, to compare any member to a donkey.)

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Hindu Kush mountain was because the Indians of the hot plains of India during M


Joe Shearer said:


> Darn it, got it now!
> 
> @Sindhu(Indus)
> 
> Are you a Sindhi wife?
> 
> Magnificent!
> 
> Pakistani cricket produces fast bowlers like an assembly line.
> 
> PDF produces this sort like an assembly line.
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> I know I'm addressing far too many tags to you, but this situation is too delicious to resist.
> 
> Do you realise that you are the Mike Brearley to these donkey-droppers? (note to Moderators: a donkey-drop is a kind of delivery in cricket. It is not intended, at this point, to compare any member to a donkey.)



Why is the ganges the dirtiest river in the world yet the whole Indus River is used to drink out of?


----------



## Joe Shearer

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Hindu Kush mountain was because the Indians of the hot plains of India during M
> 
> 
> Why is the ganges the dirtiest river in the world yet the whole Indus River is used to drink out of?



Let me guess.

Is it because all of the inhabitants of the Indus Valley are descended from a couple of sheep-herders from the Altai Mountains and had nothing to drink but their enemies' blood? Out of their enemies' skulls? Making them so (genetically) thirsty that they'll drink anything in liquid form?

Every Sindhi wife knows that.

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## fitpOsitive

Joe Shearer said:


> Let me guess.
> 
> Is it because all of the inhabitants of the Indus Valley are descended from a couple of sheep-herders from the Altai Mountains and had nothing to drink but their enemies' blood? Out of their enemies' skulls? Making them so (genetically) thirsty that they'll drink anything in liquid form?
> 
> Every Sindhi wife knows that.


Brother Joe, it was a joke, and just intended for amusement. Sindhi women are one of the best women in the world. Beautiful and faithful.

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## Indus Pakistan

Joe Shearer said:


> Darn it, got it now!
> 
> @Sindhu(Indus)
> 
> Are you a Sindhi wife?
> 
> Magnificent!
> 
> Pakistani cricket produces fast bowlers like an assembly line.
> 
> PDF produces this sort like an assembly line.
> 
> @Indus Pakistan
> 
> I know I'm addressing far too many tags to you, but this situation is too delicious to resist.
> 
> Do you realise that you are the Mike Brearley to these donkey-droppers? (note to Moderators: a donkey-drop is a kind of delivery in cricket. It is not intended, at this point, to compare any member to a donkey.)


I don't mind you taggig me Joe. Sometimes I don't have time to reply or should I say 'considered reply'. Your tags don't deserve 'shoot an scoot' replies I often use when being economical with time.

I think I need to clarify my thoughts on nationalism. It is true that nationalism can be dangerous and we saw that what it did to Europe in both WWs. But it is also true that nationalism is needed. It is badly needed in un-reformed countries in the developing world. Whereas Europe is at a stage that could be described as post-nationalism, most of the developing world is in early stages of pre-nationalism.

In a pre-national state a country will be riven along tribal, clan, caste, ethnic, sub-ethnic, religious, sectarian, regional cleaveages all of which detract and make developing a modern state difficult and in worse cases descent into chaos. Therefore in the context of developing world and specifically Pakistan I feel nationalism is a weed [poisonous] that needs to be nurtured. Thus my attempts at nourishing it by whatever means possible even if it involves creating a 'us against them' narrative because that will plaster over the cleavages we have. But I am also cognizant of the extremism from the religioius groups so I go for a secular narrative of 'us against them'. And if that means making others look 'evi;' so be it. Ends justify the means.

The other thing is nationalism itself. I was reading a article [I forget or else I would love to link it here] that said nationalism is a recent concept. The feeling of belonging to something like a nation state become only possible with rise of modern media. We can all associate with a family, clan or possibly a tribe but beyond that the numbers get so large that a individual cannot possibly know or be able to relate with other members of a nation state. Modern media creates that common space that all individuals of a nation state can relate to.

This is done by weaving myth, history, legend etc amongst a population. Once the idea [howsoever artifical or constructed] takes hold the nation state comes into existence. In other words if people believe they belong to XYZ because of so and so then that becomes reality. It does not need logic or some fundamental basis behind it. Mere belief is sufficient to make it exist. This is exactly what western states have done. Manufacture myths and narratives, spread them through the population via schools, media and propaganda. Once that has been done relentlessly it eventually takes root.

Living in the west I am fascinated how similiar most of Europe or even the wider west is. If you trace a line from New York east to Dublin, London, Brussels, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Berlin, Warsaw, Kiev, Talinin, Moscow you will cross a dozen countries along 4,000 mile range but the actual real differances between the peoples is same if not less than from Peshawar to Islamabad to Lahore a distance of 200 miles. But in Europe at every step the same people [often speaking the same language and same religion] they have branded differant identities and then compete on those - in past on the battlefield but today on the footbal field.

You have your 'freedom' USA, your emerald isle [Ireland], your queen [British], your cultured French, industrious Germans, Vodka Russians. One family has incredibl created so many brands each proud and vocal about it. Take British isles. The brother who stayed behind is British today, the one who settled in Ulster is Irish, one is American, one is Ausatralian, one New Zealand. Each have managed to stamp a separate identity when all are from the same womb. I mean New Zealanders have managed to brand themselves as Kiwi's. The differance between a Kiwi and a 'Stralian is zero. But each has better formed identity and nationalism then Pakistan.

Therefore I think Pakistan needs doze of nationalism based on anything as long as it build a united identity that forms the base of a modern succesfull economic entity. What is needed is a violent, hard push for 'Pakistan' in brazen way. And in this context people like @Sindhi(Indus) are needed badly.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

I'm not racist, I consider the Brahui and Balochis as Sindhis 

I even consider the Makrani Balochis from Africa as Sindhis

The reason is that they live in Sindh and if given a chance would fight for Sindh

I didn't mean to upset any people of India especially not Indian Muslims as this is not directed towards you 

My facts are towards the RSS and Tarek Fatah trolls that try to teach our history 

Also to the Zionist funded Singh world organization that are lying too 

I'm alright with Indian Muslims and see them as pre Buddhist 

I've heard that majority of India's Muslims are Arabs, Buddhist, lower caste that were pushed around

I've always separated Indian Muslims from Hindus and never saw them as the same


----------



## Joe Shearer

Indus Pakistan said:


> I don't mind you taggig me Joe. Sometimes I don't have time to reply or should I say 'considered reply'. Your tags don't deserve 'shoot an scoot' replies I often use when being economical with time.
> 
> I think I need to clarify my thoughts on nationalism. It is true that nationalism can be dangerous and we saw that what it did to Europe in both WWs. But it is also true that nationalism is needed. It is badly needed in un-reformed countries in the developing world. Whereas Europe is at a stage that could be described as post-nationalism, most of the developing world is in early stages of pre-nationalism.
> 
> In a pre-national state a country will be riven along tribal, clan, caste, ethnic, sub-ethnic, religious, sectarian, regional cleaveages all of which detract and make developing a modern state difficult and in worse cases descent into chaos. Therefore in the context of developing world and specifically Pakistan I feel nationalism is a weed [poisonous] that needs to be nurtured. Thus my attempts at nourishing it by whatever means possible even if it involves creating a 'us against them' narrative because that will plaster over the cleavages we have. But I am also cognizant of the extremism from the religioius groups so I go for a secular narrative of 'us against them'. And if that means making others look 'evi;' so be it. Ends justify the means.
> 
> The other thing is nationalism itself. I was reading a article [I forget or else I would love to link it here] that said nationalism is a recent concept. The feeling of belonging to something like a nation state become only possible with rise of modern media. We can all associate with a family, clan or possibly a tribe but beyond that the numbers get so large that a individual cannot possibly know or be able to relate with other members of a nation state. Modern media creates that common space that all individuals of a nation state can relate to.
> 
> This is done by weaving myth, history, legend etc amongst a population. Once the idea [howsoever artifical or constructed] takes hold the nation state comes into existence. In other words if people believe they belong to XYZ because of so and so then that becomes reality. It does not need logic or some fundamental basis behind it. Mere belief is sufficient to make it exist. This is exactly what western states have done. Manufacture myths and narratives, spread them through the population via schools, media and propaganda. Once that has been done relentlessly it eventually takes root.
> 
> Living in the west I am fascinated how similiar most of Europe or even the wider west is. If you trace a line from New York east to Dublin, London, Brussels, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Berlin, Warsaw, Kiev, Talinin, Moscow you will cross a dozen countries along 4,000 mile range but the actual real differances between the peoples is same if not less than from Peshawar to Islamabad to Lahore a distance of 200 miles. But in Europe at every step the same people [often speaking the same language and same religion] they have branded differant identities and then compete on those - in past on the battlefield but today on the footbal field.
> 
> You have your 'freedom' USA, your emerald isle [Ireland], your queen [British], your cultured French, industrious Germans, Vodka Russians. One family has incredibl created so many brands each proud and vocal about it. Take British isles. The brother who stayed behind is British today, the one who settled in Ulster is Irish, one is American, one is Ausatralian, one New Zealand. Each have managed to stamp a separate identity when all are from the same womb. I mean New Zealanders have managed to brand themselves as Kiwi's. The differance between a Kiwi and a 'Stralian is zero. But each has better formed identity and nationalism then Pakistan.
> 
> Therefore I think Pakistan needs doze of nationalism based on anything as long as it build a united identity that forms the base of a modern succesfull economic entity. What is needed is a violent, hard push for 'Pakistan' in brazen way. And in this context people like @Sindhi(Indus) are needed badly.



The drinks are on me when we meet. We shall.

However, I reserve judgement about your approbation of our newbie; he lacks much.

PS: Do you remember how they described the poems of Sappho? 'Few, but roses.' This is why I tag you, chief. For the sheer delight of reading the brilliant reply that sometimes comes out. You realise that you are doomed, that I will tag you unmercifully, hoping for just another such answer!



fitpOsitive said:


> Brother Joe, it was a joke, and just intended for amusement. Sindhi women are one of the best women in the world. Beautiful and faithful.



Of COURSE I know that! I was just using it as a cudgel to 'school' the little fellow

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## Great Janjua

Why do some Pakistani members think they have Arab origin you don't unfortunately we are people of the indus region we shall remain indus till the world ends no one has Arab blood in their veins inside the indus valley bongia na maro this land is sacred it has given birth to brave people matched no where in the world Islam was given to us by the grace of Allah and we should be thankful for that .our castes are reminders of our great ancestors who fought valiantly against invading foreigners and if hindus think that sindhis can only be hindus you are in great error. Castes are not part of one's religion they are part of ones identity culture irrespective of religion castes bound our civilization together if your a sindhi hindu or a muslim sindhi none of the latter can claim superiority over the other key part you are both sindhis once the protecters of the sindhu subcontinent now divided by beliefs only Allah knows best

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## Indus Pakistan

Joe Shearer said:


> PS: Do you remember how they described the poems of Sappho? 'Few, but roses.' This is why I tag you, chief. For the sheer delight of reading the brilliant reply that sometimes comes out. You realise that you are doomed, that I will tag you unmercifully, hoping for just another such answer!


Not a problem. I am glad you like my reply. I have just come back from the gym, 1,000 steps on stairmill at max pace, upper body weight training and now I feel exhausted. Dead. Everytime I do this I swear no more. But then in a few days I am back at it.

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## scorpionx

Indus Pakistan said:


> I don't mind you taggig me Joe. Sometimes I don't have time to reply or should I say 'considered reply'. Your tags don't deserve 'shoot an scoot' replies I often use when being economical with time.
> 
> I think I need to clarify my thoughts on nationalism. It is true that nationalism can be dangerous and we saw that what it did to Europe in both WWs. But it is also true that nationalism is needed. It is badly needed in un-reformed countries in the developing world. Whereas Europe is at a stage that could be described as post-nationalism, most of the developing world is in early stages of pre-nationalism.
> 
> In a pre-national state a country will be riven along tribal, clan, caste, ethnic, sub-ethnic, religious, sectarian, regional cleaveages all of which detract and make developing a modern state difficult and in worse cases descent into chaos. Therefore in the context of developing world and specifically Pakistan I feel nationalism is a weed [poisonous] that needs to be nurtured. Thus my attempts at nourishing it by whatever means possible even if it involves creating a 'us against them' narrative because that will plaster over the cleavages we have. But I am also cognizant of the extremism from the religioius groups so I go for a secular narrative of 'us against them'. And if that means making others look 'evi;' so be it. Ends justify the means.
> 
> The other thing is nationalism itself. I was reading a article [I forget or else I would love to link it here] that said nationalism is a recent concept. The feeling of belonging to something like a nation state become only possible with rise of modern media. We can all associate with a family, clan or possibly a tribe but beyond that the numbers get so large that a individual cannot possibly know or be able to relate with other members of a nation state. Modern media creates that common space that all individuals of a nation state can relate to.
> 
> This is done by weaving myth, history, legend etc amongst a population. Once the idea [howsoever artifical or constructed] takes hold the nation state comes into existence. In other words if people believe they belong to XYZ because of so and so then that becomes reality. It does not need logic or some fundamental basis behind it. Mere belief is sufficient to make it exist. This is exactly what western states have done. Manufacture myths and narratives, spread them through the population via schools, media and propaganda. Once that has been done relentlessly it eventually takes root.
> 
> Living in the west I am fascinated how similiar most of Europe or even the wider west is. If you trace a line from New York east to Dublin, London, Brussels, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Berlin, Warsaw, Kiev, Talinin, Moscow you will cross a dozen countries along 4,000 mile range but the actual real differances between the peoples is same if not less than from Peshawar to Islamabad to Lahore a distance of 200 miles. But in Europe at every step the same people [often speaking the same language and same religion] they have branded differant identities and then compete on those - in past on the battlefield but today on the footbal field.
> 
> You have your 'freedom' USA, your emerald isle [Ireland], your queen [British], your cultured French, industrious Germans, Vodka Russians. One family has incredibl created so many brands each proud and vocal about it. Take British isles. The brother who stayed behind is British today, the one who settled in Ulster is Irish, one is American, one is Ausatralian, one New Zealand. Each have managed to stamp a separate identity when all are from the same womb. I mean New Zealanders have managed to brand themselves as Kiwi's. The differance between a Kiwi and a 'Stralian is zero. But each has better formed identity and nationalism then Pakistan.
> 
> Therefore I think Pakistan needs doze of nationalism based on anything as long as it build a united identity that forms the base of a modern succesfull economic entity. What is needed is a violent, hard push for 'Pakistan' in brazen way. And in this context people like @Sindhi(Indus) are needed badly.


Just wtf did I read!! I mean seriously, this is what PDF worth visiting for.

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## Taimur Khurram

Great Janjua said:


> Why do some Pakistani members think they have Arab origin you don't



1. A lot of us do.
2. The OP is not talking about that. 



Great Janjua said:


> our castes are reminders of our great ancestors who fought valiantly against invading foreigners



We're Muslim because our ancestors decided to join their lashkars. Like it or not, that's the reality.


----------



## Great Janjua

Taimur Khurram said:


> 1. A lot of us do.
> 2. The OP is not talking about that.
> 
> 
> 
> We're Muslim because our ancestors decided to join their lashkars. Like it or not, that's the reality.


You seem to be in the clouds am trying to tell you our ancestors were the same no matter what caste or religion you belong to we are still the sindhu people be it on this side of the border or that side and hardly 0000.1% of the population has Arabic lineage the Arab lineage theory is just a blatant lie I chuckle anytime a guy says to me he is related to the great bin qasim or his aba is from Damascus like chill bro your from the land between chenab and jhelum

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## Taimur Khurram

Great Janjua said:


> am trying to tell you our ancestors were the same no matter what caste or religion you belong to



Not true. 

https://www.harappadna.org/2012/05/harappaworld-admixture/

The above link contains another link to a spreadsheet containing the DNA results of many Muslims and non-Muslims. Here are some of the results from people in our area (NW of the sub-continent), please note that SW Asian ancestry comes from Arabia and the Levant:

Kashmiri Paharis (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Kashmiri Pandits (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Punjabi Arains (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Muslim Jatts: 2% SW Asian admixture
Punjabi Brahmins: 0% SW Asian admixture

Gujarati Muslims: 4% SW Asian admixture
Gujarati Patels (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture

Muslim Punjabi Gujjar, he obtained 3% SW Asian admixture:

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12411-Pakistani-Gujjar-Results-Harappa

More studies on Muslim Gujjars from NW India, they're shown to be distinct from Hindu Gujjars in a number of ways:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3812661

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14524001

Other genetic studies on Muslims from India:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pub...

*"we observed a certain degree of genetic contribution from Iran to both Muslim populations"*

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859343/

*“The correlation between the admixture contributions from Arabia and Iran is positive, with significant correlation coefficient values”*



Great Janjua said:


> hardly 0000.1% of the population has Arabic lineage



The statistics clearly indicate otherwise. 

Anyway, regardless of one's lineage, our ancestors still fought in the lashkars of these Muslim empire's. Like it or not, that's a fact. You're a Jat right? Well, believe it or not, Jats fought for Muhammad Bin Qasim:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...v=onepage&q=Muhammad Bin Qasim Gurjar&f=false


----------



## Great Janjua

Taimur Khurram said:


> Not true.
> 
> https://www.harappadna.org/2012/05/harappaworld-admixture/
> 
> The above link contains another link to a spreadsheet containing the DNA results of many Muslims and non-Muslims. Here are some of the results from people in our area (NW of the sub-continent), please note that SW Asian ancestry comes from Arabia and the Levant:
> 
> Kashmiri Paharis (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
> Kashmiri Pandits (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture
> 
> Punjabi Arains (overwhelmingly Muslim): 2% SW Asian admixture
> Punjabi Muslim Jatts: 2% SW Asian admixture
> Punjabi Brahmins: 0% SW Asian admixture
> 
> Gujarati Muslims: 4% SW Asian admixture
> Gujarati Patels (overwhelmingly not Muslim): 0% SW Asian admixture
> 
> Muslim Punjabi Gujjar, he obtained 3% SW Asian admixture:
> 
> https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?12411-Pakistani-Gujjar-Results-Harappa
> 
> More studies on Muslim Gujjars from NW India, they're shown to be distinct from Hindu Gujjars in a number of ways:
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3812661
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14524001
> 
> Other genetic studies on Muslims from India:
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pub...
> 
> *"we observed a certain degree of genetic contribution from Iran to both Muslim populations"*
> 
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2859343/
> 
> *“The correlation between the admixture contributions from Arabia and Iran is positive, with significant correlation coefficient values”*
> 
> 
> 
> The statistics clearly indicate otherwise.
> 
> Anyway, regardless of one's lineage, our ancestors still fought in the lashkars of these Muslim empire's. Like it or not, that's a fact. You're a Jat right? Well, believe it or not, Jats fought for Muhammad Bin Qasim:
> 
> https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...v=onepage&q=Muhammad Bin Qasim Gurjar&f=false


Mate mate mate listen carefully am not saying we did not fight for bin qasim the great what am saying is before our ancestors were muslim or Hindu they were the same people be it on this side or the other side they fought together Etcetera the thing is most pakistanis need to come out of this cave saying we share nothing in common with our neighbours that is true to some extent like we share nothing in common with the south Indians or some north, east, middle bits of Indian but we do share majority of our dna with the close border areas and further into the center they are legit the same people as us we shouldn't get carried away from our real identity the puttars of sindhu you can take a dna test and it will show where 99 percent of your dna cones from it's not hard to bust this Arab bubble

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## Taimur Khurram

Great Janjua said:


> Mate mate mate listen carefully am not saying we did not fight for bin qasim the great



Ok. 



Great Janjua said:


> what am saying is before our ancestors were muslim or Hindu they were the same people be it on this side or the other side they fought together Etcetera



The same people? Kind-of, in the same sense that Europeans or black Africans are all the same people. 

In terms of fighting together, sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't. Even many communities in Pakistan fought against each other. 



Great Janjua said:


> the thing is most pakistanis need to come out of this cave saying we share nothing in common with our neighbours that is true to some extent like we share nothing in common with the south Indians or some north, east, middle bits of Indian but we do share majority of our dna with the close border areas and further into the center they are legit the same people as us we shouldn't get carried away from our real identity the puttars of sindhu you can take a dna test and it will show where 99 percent of your dna cones from it's not hard to bust this Arab bubble



Agreed, but I have to say, no Pakistani thinks they are Arab. We just know that some of us have some Arab ancestry, because that's the truth.


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## Great Janjua

Taimur Khurram said:


> Ok.
> 
> 
> 
> The same people? Kind-of, in the same sense that Europeans or black Africans are all the same people.
> 
> In terms of fighting together, sometimes we did, sometimes we didn't. Even many communities in Pakistan fought against each other.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, but I have to say, no Pakistani thinks they are Arab. We just know that some of us have some Arab ancestry, because that's the truth.


To end this the argument (sorry for inconveniences) we were once sindhu hindus now muslim sindhu the majority of what were sindhu Hindus converted throughout the invasions attempted at the sindhu river be it early invasions or by the mongols who tried to besiege multan or the battle of river ravi people of sindhu began to realise that Islam was Allah grace upon them so people like malik kafur converted and continue the legacy of sindhus under the rule of the Delhi sultante allaudin khijli never forced his hindu rajput soldiers to convert they converted because they realised that Allah was indeed a higher power as he had provided them victory against the mongols who failed 5 times against the sindhu people. We are the same old sindhus

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## Taimur Khurram

Great Janjua said:


> To end this the argument (sorry for inconveniences) we were once sindhu hindus now muslim sindhu the majority of what were sindhu Hindus converted throughout the invasions attempted at the sindhu river be it early invasions or by the mongols who tried to besiege multan or the battle of river ravi people of sindhu began to realise that Islam was Allah grace upon them so people like malik kafur converted and continue the legacy of sindhus under the rule of the Delhi sultante allaudin khijli never forced his hindu rajput soldiers to convert they converted because they realised that Allah was indeed a higher power as he had provided them victory against the mongols who failed 5 times against the sindhu people. We are the same old sindhus



Agreed.


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## Jaanbaz

Reichsmarschall said:


> are we witnessing some sort of new Sindhi uprising



Na just one mentally ill guy who just got out of the institution.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> Why do some Pakistani members think they have Arab origin you don't unfortunately we are people of the indus region we shall remain indus till the world ends no one has Arab blood in their veins inside the indus valley bongia na maro this land is sacred it has given birth to brave people matched no where in the world Islam was given to us by the grace of Allah and we should be thankful for that .our castes are reminders of our great ancestors who fought valiantly against invading foreigners and if hindus think that sindhis can only be hindus you are in great error. Castes are not part of one's religion they are part of ones identity culture irrespective of religion castes bound our civilization together if your a sindhi hindu or a muslim sindhi none of the latter can claim superiority over the other key part you are both sindhis once the protecters of the sindhu subcontinent now divided by beliefs only Allah knows best


Who said anything about Arabs 

Sindhis were always Buddhist before Islam

Im showing that Sindhis are genetically near Brahui and Balochi 

I never said anything about Arabs 

The most Arab genes are in Gujarat India with dawood bohras not Pakistan


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## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Who said anything about Arabs
> 
> Sindhis were always Buddhist before Islam
> 
> Im showing that Sindhis are genetically near Brahui and Balochi
> 
> I never said anything about Arabs
> 
> The most Arab genes are in Gujarat India with dawood bohras not Pakistan


It was largely Hindu then Buddhism took minor hold during ashokas reign then slowly but surely it returned back to Hinduism then over large conquests by the Muslims it became a muslim stronghold with sufis from all over the world establishing their roots in sindh. for a better part of sindh it was Hindu. And the Arab thing was a rant at people who without no proof claim Arabian hood

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## Sugarcane

Great Janjua said:


> It was largely Hindu then Buddhism took minor hold during ashokas reign then slowly but surely it returned back to Hinduism then over large conquests by the Muslims it became a muslim stronghold with sufis from all over the world establishing their roots in sindh. for a better part of sindh it was Hindu. And the Arab thing was a rant at people who without no proof claim Arabian hood



Western frontier was already Budhist mostly before Invader Ashoka arrived in this part, in fact he became Budhist arriving here.


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## Great Janjua

LoveIcon said:


> Western frontier was already Budhist mostly before Invader Ashoka arrived in this part, in fact he became Budhist arriving here.


Sindh was slightly more royal hindus under selecud empire than Buddhism as Hinduism was founded near present day sindh but later through conquest buddhism did start to progress rapidly however it had reached its peak under ashoka who helped spread buddhism to sri lanka and other regions but Hinduism started to take a major footprint in converting back Buddhist followers to Hinduism. When ashoka had ransacked kalinga empire eastern Indian campaign he had felt really bad for committing atrocities and later decided to find peace by meditating and joined the religion of buddishm to find peaceful solutions to his future campaigns


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## Sugarcane

Great Janjua said:


> Sindh was slightly more royal hindus under selecud empire than Buddhism as Hinduism was founded near present day sindh but later through conquest buddhism did start to progress rapidly however it had reached its peak under ashoka who helped spread buddhism to sri lanka and other regions but Hinduism started to take a major footprint in converting back Buddhist followers to Hinduism. When ashoka had ransacked kalinga empire eastern Indian campaign he had felt really bad for committing atrocities and later decided to find peace by meditating and joined the religion of buddishm to find peaceful solutions to his future campaigns



Peace baba ji da thula, tell me which empire in history grew exponentially by peaceful means?


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## Great Janjua

LoveIcon said:


> Peace baba ji da thula, tell me which empire in history grew exponentially by peaceful means?


Baba ji peaceful expansion aman tha pegham he went as far as sri Lanka to preach his beliefs essentially became the ambassador of buddhism he succeeded in expanding buddhism that is why sri Lanka has a Buddhist population


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> Sindh was slightly more royal hindus under selecud empire than Buddhism as Hinduism was founded near present day sindh but later through conquest buddhism did start to progress rapidly however it had reached its peak under ashoka who helped spread buddhism to sri lanka and other regions but Hinduism started to take a major footprint in converting back Buddhist followers to Hinduism. When ashoka had ransacked kalinga empire eastern Indian campaign he had felt really bad for committing atrocities and later decided to find peace by meditating and joined the religion of buddishm to find peaceful solutions to his future campaigns


No there was never any Hindus here 

Agham lohana was a Buddhist 

Buddhism spread from Nepal through Swat and here too



Great Janjua said:


> Sindh was slightly more royal hindus under selecud empire than Buddhism as Hinduism was founded near present day sindh but later through conquest buddhism did start to progress rapidly however it had reached its peak under ashoka who helped spread buddhism to sri lanka and other regions but Hinduism started to take a major footprint in converting back Buddhist followers to Hinduism. When ashoka had ransacked kalinga empire eastern Indian campaign he had felt really bad for committing atrocities and later decided to find peace by meditating and joined the religion of buddishm to find peaceful solutions to his future campaigns


Hinduism was founded at the ganges river what are you talking about

Sindh was pagan nature Indus before that similar to Kalasha and Kafirstani Nuristani

Hindus came from the south to invade 

Bin Qasim and Al Ishtkari said that Hind was passed the desert behind Sindh 

They're referring the Thar desert


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## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> No there was never any Hindus here
> 
> Agham lohana was a Buddhist
> 
> Buddhism spread from Nepal through Swat and here too


But the early inhabitants of the indus were practising early form Hinduism which then later took real changes and with the arrival of Aryans the Vedic period began castes systems and all. from then on Hinduism did not leave sindh until the time of large conquests by Muslims Persians the Macedonians they all failed to root Hinduism from sindh until partition of India when majority of hindus left for India .it was present in extremely small numbers

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## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> No there was never any Hindus here
> 
> Agham lohana was a Buddhist
> 
> Buddhism spread from Nepal through Swat and here too
> 
> 
> Hinduism was founded at the ganges river what are you talking about
> 
> Sindh was pagan nature Indus before that similar to Kalasha and Kafirstani Nuristani
> 
> Hindus came from the south to invade
> 
> Bin Qasim and Al Ishtkari said that Hind was passed the desert behind Sindh
> 
> They're referring the Thar desert


Hinduism was founded near the indus valley it later solidified near the further plains of northern and central India. Hinduism essential birth took place near the indus river valley the Vedic period gods were essential part of early Hinduism starting to take hold their names can be found online this set the bases for Hinduism in indus valley and distance plains. only the southern part of sindh remained buddhist when buddhism began to spread to sindh the rest was mainly hindu

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## Joe Shearer

scorpionx said:


> Just wtf did I read!! I mean seriously, this is what PDF worth visiting for.



This is the frustrating bit: when I say this guy's good, many Indians read his Popular Mechanics pieces that play to the gallery and tune out. This is the real stuff, and it's worth the wait.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> Hinduism was founded near the indus valley it later solidified near the further plains of northern and central India. Hinduism essential birth took place near the indus river valley the Vedic period gods were essential part of early Hinduism starting to take hold their names can be found online this set the bases for Hinduism in indus valley and distance plains. only the southern part of sindh remained buddhist when buddhism began to spread to sindh the rest was mainly hindu


You're wrong I suggest you read this book by 

Swapam Kumar Biswas in his 1999 book said that the locals were practicing Kasapa Buddha 

He claimed that Indra the brahmin with his rapist friends came into the Indus Valley and forced the locals to practice the caste based Vedic ways 

The Vedic period is a lie and a invasion on the Indus Valley from the south 


Great Janjua said:


> But the early inhabitants of the indus were practising early form Hinduism which then later took real changes and with the arrival of Aryans the Vedic period began castes systems and all. from then on Hinduism did not leave sindh until the time of large conquests by Muslims Persians the Macedonians they all failed to root Hinduism from sindh until partition of India when majority of hindus left for India .it was present in extremely small numbers



100% wrong 

Persians never tried to root out

Indus Valley practices were straight nature and fertility where bodhi trees were found 

The Kalash practice and Ghandara teachings were connected with Sindh 

Indra the leader of the Vedic Brahmins from the south brought that toxic Hinduism from the ganges river 




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154042295360539


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## M. Sarmad

Taimur Khurram said:


> @M. Sarmad
> 
> You claim to be a proud Gujjar/Pakistani, so I'm curious, what do you make of this?




Dr. Mubarak Ali has refuted many myths/lies regarding Bin Qasim and his army. Read him when you have time


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> To end this the argument (sorry for inconveniences) we were once sindhu hindus now muslim sindhu the majority of what were sindhu Hindus converted throughout the invasions attempted at the sindhu river be it early invasions or by the mongols who tried to besiege multan or the battle of river ravi people of sindhu began to realise that Islam was Allah grace upon them so people like malik kafur converted and continue the legacy of sindhus under the rule of the Delhi sultante allaudin khijli never forced his hindu rajput soldiers to convert they converted because they realised that Allah was indeed a higher power as he had provided them victory against the mongols who failed 5 times against the sindhu people. We are the same old sindhus


Lies 

Bin Qasim said that 80% of the population was Buddhist 

They even have Al Buddha written on map numbers in Persian geographer kitab of An Ishtkari 

It wasn't by the sword at all, Raja Dhair was a Hindu brahmin tyrant from the south trying to force Sindhi Buddhist or else he would cut the tongues off of them. The Lohana and Jat people were not allowed to even have saddles as they were trying to fight Raja Dhair, the Balochis were also fighting the guy. Bin Qasim had a lot of support from the locals at the time. Raja Dhair was probably a descendant of Indra from the Vedic period. Even Zooraster of Persia said that the Vedic period was a brahmin rapist period 

Indra was a man not a statue at all polytheist ganges hinduism started in the ganges and went northward 

Then Mleccha races poured in(Scythians) and heavily mixed with the Sindhi population and thrashed the descendant of Vedic indras away that ganges brahmins said that Sindh and parts of Punjab are not pure vedic but are not Mleccha zones. This was the birth of Pakistan in reality. These Mlecchas or barbarians started the whole zone of Sakadwipa, the Greeks said that so many Saka invaders poured into northern south asia that they changed the genetic make up of the place

However Greeks forgot to mention that the Vedic people were invaders also

The original Indus people were nonviolent bodhi tree and river people 

The Saka Mleccha zones meant that these destructive races killed and raped every brahmin and bania vedic person 

This was the birth of Pakistan and most of the Pakistanis don't know this 

I'm just talking about the Indus people here


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## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> You're wrong I suggest you read this book by
> 
> Swapam Kumar Biswas in his 1999 book said that the locals were practicing Kasapa Buddha
> 
> He claimed that Indra the brahmin with his rapist friends came into the Indus Valley and forced the locals to practice the caste based Vedic ways
> 
> The Vedic period is a lie and a invasion on the Indus Valley from the south
> 
> 
> 100% wrong
> 
> Persians never tried to root out
> 
> Indus Valley practices were straight nature and fertility where bodhi trees were found
> 
> The Kalash practice and Ghandara teachings were connected with Sindh
> 
> Indra the leader of the Vedic Brahmins from the south brought that toxic Hinduism from the ganges river
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10154042295360539


Whatever I stated about the beginning of Hinduism is factually correct just because you are a proud sindhi Muslim and do not want to associate with hindus doesn't mean you can manipulate history it's simply not possible whether we like it or not Hinduism took birth in modern day upper sindh and parts of upper Punjab along the indus river and had held its territory for thousands of years to come until the partition of India when hindus moved out some converted to Islam and some moved to distant lands and some were invaded the simple the better. The Persians did try to root out hindus under the achaemenoid dynasty but Allah knows what happened to them


----------



## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> Whatever I stated about the beginning of Hinduism is factually correct just because you are a proud sindhi Muslim and do not want to associate with hindus doesn't mean you can manipulate history it's simply not possible whether we like it or not Hinduism took birth in modern day upper sindh and parts of upper Punjab along the indus river and had held its territory for thousands of years to come until the partition of India when hindus moved out some converted to Islam and some moved to distant lands and some were invaded the simple the better. The Persians did try to root out hindus under the achaemenoid dynasty but Allah knows what happened to them



Hindu is not even a real word 

The word Hindu is not even mentioned in the Rig Veda 

Its a derogatory term and nothing else 

The Hindus of the ganges just adopted the word recently 

Its like African Americans adopting the N word as a way to identify themselves 

That word never existed in history 

All maps from Herodotus to Ptmoley says that India which is the western version of hindu was east of the indus river, everything west was ariana and this is fact



Great Janjua said:


> Whatever I stated about the beginning of Hinduism is factually correct just because you are a proud sindhi Muslim and do not want to associate with hindus doesn't mean you can manipulate history it's simply not possible whether we like it or not Hinduism took birth in modern day upper sindh and parts of upper Punjab along the indus river and had held its territory for thousands of years to come until the partition of India when hindus moved out some converted to Islam and some moved to distant lands and some were invaded the simple the better. The Persians did try to root out hindus under the achaemenoid dynasty but Allah knows what happened to them


This will always be the truth


----------



## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Lies
> 
> Bin Qasim said that 80% of the population was Buddhist
> 
> They even have Al Buddha written on map numbers in Persian geographer kitab of An Ishtkari
> 
> It wasn't by the sword at all, Raja Dhair was a Hindu brahmin tyrant from the south trying to force Sindhi Buddhist or else he would cut the tongues off of them. The Lohana and Jat people were not allowed to even have saddles as they were trying to fight Raja Dhair, the Balochis were also fighting the guy. Bin Qasim had a lot of support from the locals at the time. Raja Dhair was probably a descendant of Indra from the Vedic period. Even Zooraster of Persia said that the Vedic period was a brahmin rapist period
> 
> Indra was a man not a statue at all polytheist ganges hinduism started in the ganges and went northward
> 
> Then Mleccha races poured in(Scythians) and heavily mixed with the Sindhi population and thrashed the descendant of Vedic indras away that ganges brahmins said that Sindh and parts of Punjab are not pure vedic but are not Mleccha zones. This was the birth of Pakistan in reality. These Mlecchas or barbarians started the whole zone of Sakadwipa, the Greeks said that so many Saka invaders poured into northern south asia that they changed the genetic make up of the place
> 
> However Greeks forgot to mention that the Vedic people were invaders also
> 
> The original Indus people were nonviolent bodhi tree and river people
> 
> The Saka Mleccha zones meant that these destructive races killed and raped every brahmin and bania vedic person
> 
> This was the birth of Pakistan and most of the Pakistanis don't know this
> 
> I'm just talking about the Indus people here


What are you on about raja dhair was invaded because he stole goods from ships that were sent as gifts to the ummayd calphiate the main reason. also he never persecuted the local tribes it was his predecessors Muhammed bin qasim took the advantage of the crimes committed by his predecessors and launched propaganda against raja dhair this was the downfall of the last Hindu raja of sindh the Muslims later on did commit even worse crimes than raja dhairs predecessors I don't know why you are bringing this foolish history back up again raja dhair was open minded humble person he allowed parsis and people off other religion to coexist side by side peacefully


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> What are you on about raja dhair was invaded because he stole goods from ships that were sent as gifts to the ummayd calphiate the main reason. also he never persecuted the local tribes it was his predecessors Muhammed bin qasim took the advantage of the crimes committed by his predecessors and launched propaganda against raja dhair this was the downfall of the last Hindu raja of sindh the Muslims later on did commit even worse crimes than raja dhairs predecessors I don't know why you are bringing this foolish history back up again raja dhair was open minded humble person he allowed parsis and people off other religion to coexist side by side peacefully


You were speaking of the Persian empire right?

Sindh at the time was Sattagydia land of the 100 cows while Hindush was Punjab 

Made sense since Punjab was Vedic and practiced caste till recently

Pashtun land was Ghandara at the time also a Buddhist land too 






No it was Sindhis and Balochis looting Arab ships

Bin Qasim wasn't even going come to Sindh until the ships were being looted

Raja Dhair was a tyrant and was cutting the tongues off Buddhist 

This is something even a 5 year old Sindhi till this day knows and so do Balochis


----------



## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> You were speaking of the Persian empire right?
> 
> Sindh at the time was Sattagydia land of the 100 cows while Hindush was Punjab
> 
> Made sense since Punjab was Vedic and practiced caste till recently
> 
> Pashtun land was Ghandara at the time also a Buddhist land too
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No it was Sindhis and Balochis looting Arab ships
> 
> Bin Qasim wasn't even going come to Sindh until the ships were being looted
> 
> Raja Dhair was a tyrant and was cutting the tongues off Buddhist
> 
> This is something even a 5 year old Sindhi till this day knows and so do Balochis


Just because it's called the land of 100 cows don't mean it's not going to have hindus that just blows my mind anyhow raja dhair instigated the raids that is the actual main reason for his invasion raja dahir rule was perhaps the most peaceful of the Brahmin dynasty and I don't think modern sindhis or balochis even give a **** about modern events nevermind the Brahmin dynasty the south of sindh had a largely buddhist population the rest were all predominately Hindu areas


----------



## Sindhi(Indus)

Great Janjua said:


> Just because it's called the land of 100 cows don't mean it's not going to have hindus that just blows my mind anyhow raja dhair instigated the raids that is the actual main reason for his invasion raja dahir rule was perhaps the most peaceful of the Brahmin dynasty and I don't think modern sindhis or balochis even give a **** about modern events nevermind the Brahmin dynasty the south of sindh had a largely buddhist population the rest were all predominately Hindu areas


It had 15% Hindus concentrated in brahminibad 

That was more so on the eastern portion of the Indus River 

They were a minority but still there 

A good portion of Balochistan was also Sindh in the past, the Hindus of Hind were easily separated by their dress, food habits, and ways. 

Also they tended to be merchants more too 

These people were not natives to Sindh but invaders from the south 

Similar to how 52% of Balochis live in Sindh but are not native 

Brahui are native but they're a minority also 

Sindhi Mohanna are the natives 

A lot of those bhuttos and many others are just invader bloods in Sindh too 

Rajputs and Jats are not natives to Sindh


----------



## Great Janjua

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> It had 15% Hindus concentrated in brahminibad
> 
> That was more so on the eastern portion of the Indus River
> 
> They were a minority but still there
> 
> A good portion of Balochistan was also Sindh in the past, the Hindus of Hind were easily separated by their dress, food habits, and ways.
> 
> Also they tended to be merchants more too
> 
> These people were not natives to Sindh but invaders from the south
> 
> Similar to how 52% of Balochis live in Sindh but are not native
> 
> Brahui are native but they're a minority also
> 
> Sindhi Mohanna are the natives
> 
> A lot of those bhuttos and many others are just invader bloods in Sindh too
> 
> Rajputs and Jats are not natives to Sindh


Legit i cannot convince you otherwise can I the south of sindh was largely buddhist by a small margin the rest key part the rest was Hindu and overtime the buddhist conversion rates were higher than that of the Hindu population thus in short amount of time half of the hindus converted to Islam whilst buddhism ceased to exist that is why we have no more Buddhists in sindh present day


----------



## Pakhtoon yum

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Aren't Pashtuns migrants from Afghanistan?
> 
> I know KPK Pashtuns that are Karlani like Afridis have been at the Kyhber Pass for 3,000 years but Yousefzai and also Durrani are from Afghanistan I've heard.
> 
> Many Pashtuns like Khilji have Turkish ancestry
> 
> Mind you Ive not read Pashtun history to the fullest extent however they're a lot more diverse than Sindhis because they're more spread out
> 
> Many Pashtuns in Kabul virtually look the same as Tajiks too
> 
> Where they stand on genetic stats, Im not sure, however Pakistani Pashtuns are near the Afghan Pashtuns near Khandahar from gene test
> 
> Pashtuns can vary from Tajik looking and also northern central asian looking to even baloch looking depending on the province they live in
> 
> Pashto is Eastern Iranian language
> 
> Pashtuns are an Iranic race of people by majority however some are Turks and Indo Aryans too
> 
> South Indians are a dravidian race
> 
> However brahui are genetically Iranic in genes


borders were never so clear-cut as they are right now. I have Iraqi roots, other have Greek and central Asian. we are a very mix people but are united by one culture and language. no one knows how the language and culture developed all are pure speculations. I do know that we are of this land now, you can not call us outsiders. we have given so much to your culture and you have to us, calling us outsiders will make you one too.


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## Sharky

Lol, all you people here fighting to see who is the genetically superior one, when the rest of the world considers all of south Asia a genetic turd. In the real world hierarchy south asians come last even below negroids of Africa. Have fun living and fighting in the cesspool. 
If you get offended by this statement, either you haven't travelled outside your pond or looks at the world with rose tinted glass, or you are just plain stupid to see the truth.


----------



## Sindhi(Indus)

Sharky said:


> Lol, all you people here fighting to see who is the genetically superior one, when the rest of the world considers all of south Asia a genetic turd. In the real world hierarchy south asians come last even below negroids of Africa. Have fun living and fighting in the cesspool.
> If you get offended by this statement, either you haven't travelled outside your pond or looks at the world with rose tinted glass, or you are just plain stupid to see the truth.



You fool, Pakistan is army of mahdi 

We will plant our flags on your side of the world


----------



## Sharky

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> You fool, Pakistan is army of mahdi
> 
> We will plant our flags on your side of the world



Honestly,Dont care if you plant your flag(don't understand the analogy anyway), the fact remains that the outside world, considers south Asia, a region of coolies who don't deserve basic human rights.
It is just damn funny when you people argue , fight and kill amongst yourselves trying to one up each other when you come to the west you all will be treated as second class citizens. Forget west, even head to south east Asia, south Asians are the lowest in the hierarchy


----------



## Sindhi(Indus)

Sharky said:


> Honestly,Dont care if you plant your flag(don't understand the analogy anyway), the fact remains that the outside world, considers south Asia, a region of coolies who don't deserve basic human rights.
> It is just damn funny when you people argue , fight and kill amongst yourselves trying to one up each other when you come to the west you all will be treated as second class citizens. Forget west, even head to south east Asia, south Asians are the lowest in the hierarchy


Considering the mayor of London is Pakistani and he is letting pimp gangs run your streets, I doubt they're getting treated any bad.



Sharky said:


> Honestly,Dont care if you plant your flag(don't understand the analogy anyway), the fact remains that the outside world, considers south Asia, a region of coolies who don't deserve basic human rights.
> It is just damn funny when you people argue , fight and kill amongst yourselves trying to one up each other when you come to the west you all will be treated as second class citizens. Forget west, even head to south east Asia, south Asians are the lowest in the hierarchy


 ewww southeast asia where the girls are all hookers and fill up jars for pedophile reject males like you, no thanks, go go bar lady boys do not decide our status, neither do pot belly pink males do weak to fight face to face against us. Its been 18 years and you still can't defeat some Afghan Pashtuns with old AKs, despite having 35 over paid armies of pot belly males like you. You can have your garbage hierarchy since we don't need it. Your British lost all 3 wars in this region, Russia lost their wars here, even Alexander was face planted in this region, and we care what a bunch of slave mentality southeast asians think of us people who sell their 5 year old girls to you. You can have your fake status.


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## Bengal71

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> Aren't Pashtuns migrants from Afghanistan?
> 
> I know KPK Pashtuns that are Karlani like Afridis have been at the Kyhber Pass for 3,000 years but Yousefzai and also Durrani are from Afghanistan I've heard.
> 
> Many Pashtuns like Khilji have Turkish ancestry
> 
> Mind you Ive not read Pashtun history to the fullest extent however they're a lot more diverse than Sindhis because they're more spread out
> 
> Many Pashtuns in Kabul virtually look the same as Tajiks too
> 
> Where they stand on genetic stats, Im not sure, however Pakistani Pashtuns are near the Afghan Pashtuns near Khandahar from gene test
> 
> Pashtuns can vary from Tajik looking and also northern central asian looking to even baloch looking depending on the province they live in
> 
> Pashto is Eastern Iranian language
> 
> Pashtuns are an Iranic race of people by majority however some are Turks and Indo Aryans too
> 
> South Indians are a dravidian race
> 
> However brahui are genetically Iranic in genes



Bro, I am not interested in these things, but I just have an ignorant question.

What is the difference between Pashtun and Pathan, are they same or they is some subtle difference? Cricketer Shahid Afridi is pathan I hear, does it mean he is also pashtoon. Are the Afghan Pashtoon same as pathan/pashtoon in Pakistan?


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Bengal71 said:


> Bro, I am not interested in these things, but I just have an ignorant question.
> 
> What is the difference between Pashtun and Pathan, are they same or they is some subtle difference? Cricketer Shahid Afridi is pathan I hear, does it mean he is also pashtoon. Are the Afghan Pashtoon same as pathan/pashtoon in Pakistan?


Yes Afghan is a Farsi word for Pashtun, the Pakistani Pashtuns are the same sometimes, Pathan is just urdu version of that.

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## Taimur Khurram

M. Sarmad said:


> Dr. Mubarak Ali has refuted many myths/lies regarding Bin Qasim and his army. Read him when you have time



What "lies"? It's clear cut, your ancestors/relatives fought with Muhammad Bin Qasim.

I'd like to see you provide any sources that can refute this.



Bengal71 said:


> What is the difference between Pashtun and Pathan, are they same or they is some subtle difference?



Pathan is the Urdu word for them, however, it's more commonly used to refer to Pashtuns who settled into areas beyond Pashtunistan (they are different from regular Pashtuns because they look more Indo-Aryan and don't typically practice much of Pashtun culture).


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## Sindhi(Indus)

Taimur Khurram said:


> What "lies"? It's clear cut, your ancestors/relatives fought with Muhammad Bin Qasim.
> 
> I'd like to see you provide any sources that can refute this.
> 
> 
> 
> Pathan is the Urdu word for them, however, it's more commonly used to refer to Pashtuns who settled into areas beyond Pashtunistan (they are different from regular Pashtuns because they look more Indo-Aryan and don't typically practice much of Pashtun culture).


Imran Khan doesn't practice pashtun traditions and is punjabized

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## Bengal71

Taimur Khurram said:


> What "lies"? It's clear cut, your ancestors/relatives fought with Muhammad Bin Qasim.
> 
> I'd like to see you provide any sources that can refute this.
> 
> 
> 
> Pathan is the Urdu word for them, however, it's more commonly used to refer to Pashtuns who settled into areas beyond Pashtunistan (they are different from regular Pashtuns because they look more Indo-Aryan and don't typically practice much of Pashtun culture).



Right, it is somewhat confusing. I have little interest in these things, so only take away for me now is Pathan and Pashtun are same, while pathan is just the urdu word to describe them. Got it.

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## Sindhi(Indus)

Bengal71 said:


> Right, it is somewhat confusing. I have little interest in these things, so only take away for me now is Pathan and Pashtun are same, while pathan is just the urdu word to describe them. Got it.


This is a pathan man in Saudi Arabia


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## Bengal71

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> This is a pathan man in Saudi Arabia



I know Pathans, one of my best friends (he is almost like a brother to me) is a Pathan.


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## Great Janjua

Sharky said:


> Lol, all you people here fighting to see who is the genetically superior one, when the rest of the world considers all of south Asia a genetic turd. In the real world hierarchy south asians come last even below negroids of Africa. Have fun living and fighting in the cesspool.
> If you get offended by this statement, either you haven't travelled outside your pond or looks at the world with rose tinted glass, or you are just plain stupid to see the truth.


Where did this sasta gandu come from legit we do not give a **** what the west thinks of us pakistan is a free land. West is just full of retards fighting over petty things they are turning into insensitive little girls. Even though I reside in the UK and yes I am grateful to this country but there is no place like home however home might be it is still my place of peace


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## Progressive1

Sharky said:


> Lol, all you people here fighting to see who is the genetically superior one, when the rest of the world considers all of south Asia a genetic turd. In the real world hierarchy south asians come last even below negroids of Africa. Have fun living and fighting in the cesspool.
> If you get offended by this statement, either you haven't travelled outside your pond or looks at the world with rose tinted glass, or you are just plain stupid to see the truth.


Pakistanis are not self haters like other South Asians, learn to like and respect yourself first , others will only than follow. I would say perception of South Asians will change once living standard of significant portion of population will enter in mid tier level.


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## M. Sarmad

Taimur Khurram said:


> What "lies"? It's clear cut, your ancestors/relatives fought with Muhammad Bin Qasim.
> 
> I'd like to see you provide any sources that can refute this.



I don't think you know what 'clear cut' means, 
Anyway, all primary sources, including _Chach-nama_, mention local Jats and Meds siding with the Arab Army of Bin Qasim as they had been disarmed and degraded by _Chach of Aror_
Gujjars have been mentioned as "enemies" by the early Arab historians.


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## Taimur Khurram

M. Sarmad said:


> Gujjars have been mentioned as "enemies" by the early Arab historians.



Only the main empire. Multiple books clearly state that Gujjar mercenaries fought with them. I just cited one.


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## M. Sarmad

Taimur Khurram said:


> Only the main empire. Multiple books clearly state that Gujjar mercenaries fought with them. I just cited one.



Cite a primary source.

Many books claim that Gujjars are descendants of Ibrahim A.S through Alexander the great, do you want us to believe everything quoted in books?


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## Taimur Khurram

M. Sarmad said:


> Many books claim that Gujjars are descendants of Ibrahim A.S through Alexander the great, do you want us to believe everything quoted in books?



These ones are obscure (not the story of Ibrahim though, that's a common folk-story told among the Gujjars of Himachal Pradesh), I'm citing proper sources.


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## M. Sarmad

Taimur Khurram said:


> I'm citing proper sources.



Those sources that contradict primary sources, or make unsubstantiated claims, cannot be considered 'proper' sources.


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## Sindhi(Indus)

M. Sarmad said:


> Cite a primary source.
> 
> Many books claim that Gujjars are descendants of Ibrahim A.S through Alexander the great, do you want us to believe everything quoted in books?


Alexander the great was a western infidel 

He was an atheist homosexual what are you talking about?


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## ShazzadAhmedMahdi

Sindhis are nice


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## mikkix

Sindhi(Indus) said:


> The brahui are more Sindhi to me than the Mujhair that invaded our land in 1947 and piled up in Sindh after that


Can you tell or clarify who is originally Sindhi and who is not?
Zulfiqar Bhutto was an originally Sindhi or a Rajput or ...?
Syeds, Abbasis, Qureshis, Hashmis, Arains or etc are original sindhis or they also invaded the land and if they invaded the land then when they did, after invading it how they become sindhis which the muhajirs could not?
If they are not invaded then are they fake abbasis syeds qureshis hashmis arain etc or these castes are also not existed?
Tell me the definition of pure original sindhis and its castes?
What is your sindhi caste?
Secondly how muhajirs invaded your land, didnt they left their homes in India for Hindus of Sindh and in return they got what hindus had in Sindh. Infact most of the muhajirs didnt got the compensation land in sindh. 
What do you mean by Muhajirs? Who is muhajir and who is not as per you?
Does punjabis also gangadeshis?
As per you Baloch and Pukhtuns are not gangadeshis so do inform me about Punjabis?
Need your feedback.

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## Talwar e Pakistan

M. Sarmad said:


> For starters:
> 
> One theory is that the Brahui are a relict population of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of Indo-Iranian languages, remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread.
> 
> A second theory is that they migrated to Baluchistan from inner India during the early Muslim period of the 13th or 14th centuries.[4]
> 
> The third theory says the Brahui migrated to Balochistan from Central India after 1000 AD.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahui_people
> 
> ---
> You can keep propagating Indus Nationalism, I have no problem with that.
> But you should know what you are talking about


Language does note denote genotype. Brahuis are nearly genetically identical to their Baloch counterparts.


Fatima Khan0007 said:


> i see a bit of rajasthani culture in our sindh


That is because there are some regions in Sindh that are ethno-culturally Rajasthani, primarily Tharparkar. The ethnic groups of these regions whom overlap from Rajasthan are often mistakenly represented as 'Sindhi culture'.


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