# Handguns Info Bank.



## MilSpec

Before we start this thread about handguns, please do read the basics of firearms safety.

*The three basic general rules of safe gun handling.
*
Always point the muzzle in a safe direction; never point a firearm at anyone or anything you don't want to shoot.
Keep your finger off the trigger and outside the trigger guard until you are ready to shoot.
Keep the action open and the gun unloaded until you are ready to use it.

II. Additional specific rules of safe gun handling

Safety Rules Related to the Shooter and His Behavior.

Treat every firearm as if it were loaded.
Never pass a firearm to another person, or accept a firearm from another person, until the cylinder or action is open and you've personally checked that the weapon is completely unloaded.
Before handling any firearm, understand its operation.
Never rely on any mechanical device for safety.
Think before shooting: once you pull the trigger you can't take back the shot you've just fired!
Never joke around or engage in horseplay while handling or using firearms.
Be alert at all times; never shoot if you're tired, cold or impaired in any way. Don't mix alcohol or drugs with shooting.
Don't sleep with a loaded firearm in your bedroom if you sleepwalk, have nightmares, sleep restlessly or have other sleep problems.
Safeguard your sight, hearing and health. Always wear eye and ear protection. Endeavor to limit your exposure to heavy metal particulates and gases, and minimize your contact with aromatic organic solvents (such as those commonly used in gun cleaning products).
If you see unsafe behavior any time when firearms are being handled or used, speak up and take action to correct the unsafe behavior at once.
Receive competent instruction from a qualified person before beginning to shoot. If questions arise later, after you've been shooting for a period of time, get answers to those questions from a competent authority.

Firearm Safety

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## MilSpec

1911/ M1911, 

Popular caliber: 45 ACP

Designer : John Moses Browning 

Action Type: Single action Semi Auto

The M1911 pistol originated in the late 1890s as the result of a search for a suitable self-loading (or semi-automatic) handgun to replace the variety of revolvers then in service.The United States was adopting new firearms at a phenomenal rate; several new handguns and two all-new service rifles (the M1892/96/98 Krag and M1895 Navy Lee), as well as a series of revolvers by Colt and Smith & Wesson for the Army and Navy, were adopted just in that decade.

Of the six designs submitted of 1906 trials of pistols from six firearms manufacturing companies (namely, Colt, Bergmann, Deutsche Waffen und Munitionsfabriken (DWM), Savage Arms Company, Knoble, Webley, and White-Merril; three were eliminated early on, leaving only the Savage, Colt, and DWM designs chambered in the new .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol) cartridge. These three still had issues that needed correction, but only Colt and Savage resubmitted their designs. There is some debate over the reasons for DWM's withdrawal&#8212;some say they felt there was bias and that the DWM design was being used primarily as a "whipping boy" for the Savage and Colt pistols, though this does not fit well with the earlier 1900 purchase of the DWM design over the Colt and Steyr entries. In any case, a series of field tests from 1907 to 1911 were held to decide between the Savage and Colt designs.Both designs were improved between each testing over their initial entries, leading up to the final test before adoption.
Among the areas of success for the Colt was a test at the end of 1910 attended by its designer, John Browning. Six thousand rounds were fired from a single pistol over the course of two days. When the gun began to grow hot, it was simply immersed in water to cool it. The Colt gun passed with no reported malfunctions, while the Savage designs had 37

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## RescueRanger

Some good points, personally i have found teaching weapon safety works best when using acronyms that can be easily remembered.

The best one when conducting NSP: Normal Safety Precautions is always use LMFT: Loaded?, Muzzle, Finger, Target. And one i learnt from a foreign instructor for stoppage drill is SCHL: Stop, ****, Hook, Look. Weapon handling is commonsense really, and it should be remembered that guns don't kill people, people kill people.

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## Safriz

nice thread sandy...
you will have to keep adding info on your own. Dont expect much help from members here...unless you open a troll thread,and it will balloon to 10 pages in an hour

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## MilSpec

*Striker Fired Special*

*Glock family*


The Glock pistol, sometimes referred to by the manufacturer as Glock "Safe Action" Pistol, is a series of semi-automatic pistols designed and produced by Glock Ges.m.b.H., located in Deutsch-Wagram, Austria. The company's founder, engineer Gaston Glock, had no experience with firearm design or manufacture at the time their first pistol, the Glock 17, was being prototyped. Glock did, however, have extensive experience in advanced synthetic polymers, knowledge of which was instrumental in the company's design of the first successful line of pistols with a polymer frame. Glock introduced ferritic nitrocarburizing into the firearms industry as an anti-corrosion surface treatment for metal gun parts

Calibers:
9×19mm Parabellum
10mm Auto
.45 ACP
.40 S&W
.380 ACP
.357 SIG
.45 GAP

Glock 17 9mm





Glock 22 .40 S&W





Glock 20 10mm





Glock 21 45 ACP





Glock 37 45GAP

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## MilSpec

Striker Fired Series

*Smith and Wesson M&P series:*
The Smith & Wesson M&P (Military and Police) is a polymer-framed, short recoil operated, locked breech semi-automatic pistol introduced in the summer of 2005 by the American company Smith & Wesson. It uses a Browning-type locking system. While targeted at law enforcement agencies, the M&P is also available on the commercial market.


Smith & Wesson M&P9L Pro Series C.O.R.E.





Caliber: 9mm
Capacity: 17+1 Rounds
Action: Striker Fire (Double Action)

For more info
M&P Handguns - Smith & Wesson

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## Erhabi

Five seven is the best handgun in the world IMO


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## MilSpec

*Beretta 92/M9*

The Beretta 92 (also Beretta 96 and Beretta 98) is a series of semi-automatic pistols designed and manufactured by Beretta of Italy. The model 92 was designed in 1972 and production of many variants in different calibers continues today. The United States Armed Forces replaced the Model 1911A1 .45 ACP pistol in 1985 with the military spec Beretta 92F, the M9.
Although only 5,000 copies of the original design were manufactured from 1975 to 1976, the design is currently produced in four different configurations (FS, G, D and DS) and four calibers:
92 series in 9×19mm Parabellum
96 series in .40 S&W
98 series in 9×21mm IMI
98 and 99 series in 7.65mm Luger
















Taurus Clone PT92

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## Sashan

sandy_3126 said:


> Striker Fired Series
> 
> *Smith and Wesson M&P series:*
> The Smith & Wesson M&P (Military and Police) is a polymer-framed, short recoil operated, locked breech semi-automatic pistol introduced in the summer of 2005 by the American company Smith & Wesson. It uses a Browning-type locking system. While targeted at law enforcement agencies, the M&P is also available on the commercial market.
> 
> 
> Smith & Wesson M&P9L Pro Series C.O.R.E.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Caliber: 9mm
> Capacity: 17+1 Rounds
> Action: Striker Fire (Double Action)
> 
> For more info
> M&P Handguns - Smith & Wesson




Bro - thanks for opening this thread. I was eyeing couple of guns and one of them is 

Cabela's: Smith & Wesson Engraved Model 29 Revolver


- nostalgic feelings due to Dirty Harry. Can you comment on this?


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## neehar

sandy_3126 said:


> *Beretta 92/M9*
> 
> The Beretta 92 (also Beretta 96 and Beretta 98) is a series of semi-automatic pistols designed and manufactured by Beretta of Italy. The model 92 was designed in 1972 and production of many variants in different calibers continues today. The United States Armed Forces replaced the Model 1911A1 .45 ACP pistol in 1985 with the military spec Beretta 92F, the M9.
> Although only 5,000 copies of the original design were manufactured from 1975 to 1976, the design is currently produced in four different configurations (FS, G, D and DS) and four calibers:
> 92 series in 9×19mm Parabellum
> 96 series in .40 S&W
> 98 series in 9×21mm IMI
> 98 and 99 series in 7.65mm Luger
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taurus Clone PT92



sweeet any james bond stuff??


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## Sashan

@sandy_3126 - I am a newbie - so can you comment on gun storage as well.


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## MilSpec

Sashan said:


> Bro - thanks for opening this thread. I was eyeing couple of guns and one of them is
> 
> Cabela's: Smith & Wesson Engraved Model 29 Revolver
> 
> 
> - nostalgic feelings due to Dirty Harry. Can you comment on this?



Sir ji, It's a stunner. a true beauty, you cant go wrong with a model 29, I would prefer a longer barrell, but then again it depends if you every want to carry it, this barrel is fine. I have always wondered what Indian craftsman would have been able to achieve when it comes to engraving on pistols and rifles. 
I have taurus tracker on my radar as my next, but my wife may kill me if I spend more on firearms!

P.S Do look up Indiansforguns.com if you are not a member already.

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## Kompromat

@RescueRanger Can you please provide the pricing of Glocks in Pakistan and info on vendors?


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## Sashan

sandy_3126 said:


> Sir ji, It's a stunner. a true beauty, you cant go wrong with a model 29, I would prefer a longer barrell, but then again it depends if you every want to carry it, this barrel is fine. I have always wondered what Indian craftsman would have been able to achieve when it comes to engraving on pistols and rifles.
> I have taurus tracker on my radar as my next, but my wife may kill me if I spend more on firearms!
> 
> P.S Do look up Indiansforguns.com if you are not a member already.



Thanks bro. It took me more than a year to convince my wife to own a gun but need to lie low till after the new year due to the newtown incident(happened near my city) - She was more concerned about the storage of the gun itself(from legal and safety perspective).


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## A.Rafay

We need finger print guns like james bond had in Skyfall, it wont shoot if it does recognize the finger prints


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## MilSpec

Sashan said:


> @sandy_3126 - I am a newbie - so can you comment on gun storage as well.



Sir, 

Storage and safety is of utmost importance, and equals the handling of firearms. First thing I would recommend is to get a biometric gun safe for both rifles and handguns. You live in US and once you are bitten by the gun bug, trust me your arsenal will keep increasing. Get yourself a good biometric rifle safe for atleast 5-8 guns if you plan to buy any rifles in future. Also store a all you ammo in a case with lock.

I practice redundant safety in storage of all my long arms. I run either action locks in all my rifles or remove their bolts rendering them non-functional, even if someone is able to break into my safe. 

For pistols, mags are stored at a seperate box which contains all my ammo. 

Always have some silica gel in ammo and gun lockers to ensure there is no excess moisture, keep all your metal surfaces exposed coated with oil.

This should be a good start



Sashan said:


> Thanks bro. It took me more than a year to convince my wife to own a gun but need to lie low till after the new year due to the newtown incident(happened near my city) - She was more concerned about the storage of the gun itself(from legal and safety perspective).



Sirji, newtown had nothing to do with the legal gun ownership. Go ahead and get a tool to protect your loved ones and also learn a life skill which will always be with you.

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## RescueRanger

Aeronaut said:


> @RescueRanger Can you please provide the pricing of Glocks in Pakistan and info on vendors?



Sure thing sir, Glock 17 is available with buksh elahi in Lahore for PKR 270,000. 

You can have a chat with Maj. Abid from PARA or try Majied & Sons (he is expensive). Personally if you are after a decent and affordable pistol for self defence then i would recommend the Zigana K 9mm, the best thing to come out of Turkey and a bargain at 25k.

PM me if you need the name of a dealer.

Also sir, the great people at PakGuns can be a great asset and provide a wealth of information:
http://pakguns.com/


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## MilSpec

Gentlemen; please do post your own handguns on the thread, also feel free to share your experience with the firearm, its history, and the general feel of the hand gun.

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## Kompromat

RescueRanger said:


> Sure thing sir, Glock 17 is available with buksh elahi in Lahore for PKR 270,000.
> 
> You can have a chat with Maj. Abid from PARA or try Majied & Sons (he is expensive). Personally if you are after a decent and affordable pistol for self defence then i would recommend the Zigana K 9mm, the best thing to come out of Turkey and a bargain at 25k.
> 
> PM me if you need the name of a dealer.










This one?, how does it compare against the CF-98? , I do have a 92FS. I was trying to get my hands on a NPB license and find a way to import HK-416 [Mehmitch-1] from Turkey

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## RescueRanger

Aeronaut said:


> This one?, how does it compare against the CF-98? , I do have a 92FS. I was trying to get my hands on a NPB license and find a way to import HK-416 [Mehmitch-1] from Turkey



Yes sir that is the one, fired tons of ammo with that at PTS and i must say it handles so bloody well, although if you have a genuine Italian M92FS, then stick with it. For the HK-416, you can get a Korean copy .223 for 220,000 from a vendor in R.Pindi.

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## Kompromat

RescueRanger said:


> Yes sir that is the one, fired tons of ammo with that at PTS and i must say it handles so bloody well, although if you have a genuine Italian M92FS, then stick with it. *For the HK-416, you can get a Korean copy .223 for 220,000 from a vendor in R.Pindi.*



I'd like to see pictures.

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## RescueRanger

Aeronaut said:


> I'd like to see pictures.



Basically it is this:




A Mr223, that has been heavily modified. It is made in Korea and sells pretty cheap considering the end product is half decent.

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## MilSpec

The CZ-75 Family, cousins and relatives. 

The CZ 75- The BOSS 
The CZ 75 is a semi-automatic pistol made by &#268;eská zbrojovka Uherský Brod (CZUB) in the Czech Republic. First introduced in 1975, it is one of the original "wonder nines" featuring a staggered-column magazine, all-steel construction, and a hammer forged barrel. It has a good reputation amongst pistol shooters for quality and versatility at a reasonable price, and is widely distributed throughout the world. It is also the most common gun in the Czech Republic






The Italian Connection

Tanfoglio TZ-75
Due to politics the Czechs could not market their pistol in the United States and because CZ failed to secure world patent protection for their design, a number of firms copied it. Foremost Italian firm Fratelli Tanfoglio made good business marketing the pistol to the West with the design being so solid, that two shooters, US national Doug Koenig and Frenchman Eric Grauffel, have won the hard fought IPSC World Championship using pistols based on CZ 75 design. That was tremendous endorsement for any handgun design because all other World Champions up to the time had used pistols based on the John Browning 1911 format.






*MY OWN TZ 75*






The Israeli Baby Eagle / Jericho 941
The original Jericho 941 was based on the well-respected CZ-75 pistol designed and produced by &#268;eská zbrojovka (CZ) of the Czech Republic and built using parts supplied by the Italian arms house Tanfoglio, which had been making their own CZ-75 clones. Using a well-tested design allowed IMI to avoid the teething problems most new pistol designs experience, and subcontracting much of the basic fabrication work to Tanfoglio allowed IMI to quickly and economically put into production a pistol that would have enough Israeli content to satisfy government contract requirements.






The Turkish Relative SAR - K12
Based on the classic CZ-75 pattern, which has to be the most copied pistol design in the world, these are hefty, accurate pistols.





Magnum research - Baby Eagle





New gen CZ 75 SP-01 Poly frame

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## MilSpec

*Eastern Bloc Pistols*

*TT pistol/TT33*
This 7.62 X 25 Tokarev, Semi auto handgun, is very similar to John Browning's blowback operated FN Model 1903 automatic pistol, and internally it uses Browning's short recoil dropping-barrel system from the M1911. In other areas the TT-33 differs more from Browning's designs - It employs a much simpler hammer/sear assembly than the M1911, with an external hammer. This assembly is removable from the weapon as a modular unit and includes cartridge guides that provide reliable functioning. The Soviet engineers also added several other features such as locking lugs all around the barrel (not just on top), and made several alterations to make the mechanism easier to produce and maintain, notably a captive recoil spring secured to the guide rod which does not depend on the barrel bushing to hold it under tension. Production even machined the magazine feed lips into the receiver to prevent damage and misfeeds when a distorted magazine was loaded into the magazine well.










*Makarov pistol/ PM ( Pistolet Makarova)
*
Semi auto, firing the 9x18mm Makarov, resulted from a design competition for replacing the Tokarev TT-33 semi-automatic pistol and the Nagant M1895 revolver.[2] Rather than building a pistol to an existing cartridge in the Soviet inventory, Nikolai Makarov utilized the 9x18mm Makarov cartridge designed by B.V. Semin in 1946. For simplicity and economy, the Makarov pistol was of straight blowback operation, with the 9x18mm Makarov cartridge being the most powerful cartridge it could safely fire. Although the nominal calibre was 9.0mm, the actual bullet was 9.22mm in diameter, being shorter and wider and thus incompatible with pistols chambered for 9x19mm Parabellum cartridges. Consequently, Soviet ammunition was unusable in NATO firearms and, in the event of war, NATO forces would be unable to use ammunition from Soviet sources.






*Steckin Pistol auto*

The Stechkin pistol was originally chambered for 7.62×25mm Tokarev. Stechkin changed the pistol to the 9 mm caliber used in the new Makarov pistol (PM), as it became clear that this cartridge was set to become the new service ammunition for handguns of the Soviet Army. In 1951, both the Makarov and Stechkin were introduced into the Soviet military arsenal, replacing the aging Tokarev TT-33. They have little in common except for the simple unlocked blow-back mechanism.
In contrast to the Makarov, the Stechkin APS has an automatic fire mode, which is selected using the safety lever. In burst or automatic fire, the pistol should be fitted with the wooden or metal shoulder stock; otherwise, the weapon becomes difficult to control.





*CZ52*

The CZ 52 utilizes a fairly uncommon short recoil operating system in which two vertical rollers are used to lock the barrel and slide together, via a cam block. This is similar to the system used in the German MG 42 machine gun, which itself hearkens back to a Polish patent of the 1930s. This arrangement results in an unusually strong lockup which, conventional wisdom holds, allowed the Czechs to load ammunition for it to higher pressure levels (and therefore, higher velocity and energy) than compatible ammunition manufactured in other Warsaw Pact countries. This oft recited "fact" is, however, debatable. The bottom of the CZ 52 chamber measures 0.058", whereas the supposedly weaker TT33 Tokarev pistol measures 0.125" at the bottom of the chamber.





*MP-443 Grach/Yarygin Pistol*
MP-443 Grach (Russian: &#1043;&#1088;&#1072;&#1095;, "Rook"), is the latest Russian standard military-issue side arm. It was developed in response to Russian military trials, which began in 1993. In 2003, it was adopted as a standard sidearm for all branches of Russian military and law enforcement, alongside GSh-18 and SPS.





*Viking variant*





*GSh-18*
The pistol's name is derived from its designers&#8212;Gryazev and Shipunov, and the number 18 denotes the magazine capacity. It is also designed to fire the new Russian 9x19mm 7N21 and 7N31 (Cyrillic: 7&#1053;21 and 7&#1053;31) +P+ armor-piercing rounds.

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## MilSpec

*Desert Eagle*

Caliber: .50 AE
The Desert Eagle was originally designed by Bernard C. White of Magnum Research, who filed a US patent application for a mechanism for a gas-actuated pistol in January 1983.[5] This established the basic layout of the Desert Eagle. A second patent application was filed in December 1985, after the basic design had been refined by IMI (Israel Military Industries) for production, and this is the form that went into production.





0.50AE compared to 9mm

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## MilSpec

SIG FAMILY

*SIG P210*

The SIG P210 is a single-action pistol, with a magazine capacity of eight rounds of 9 mm, 7.65 mm, or .22 Long Rifle (.22 LR). It is a licensed development from French-Swiss designer Charles Gabriel Petter's Modèle 1935 pistol. It has a frame-mounted manual safety that blocks the trigger and a magazine disconnecter safety that blocks the trigger when the magazine is removed. It has a 120 mm high quality barrel (150 mm in the 210-5 variant) and the pistol is very durable and reliable. The slide and frame are machined from blocks of steel, which makes production rather costly compared to recent pistol designs, manufactured of pressings and welds.


Its hammer action is built into a removable assembly for easy maintenance, after the fashion of the Tokarev TT-30 pistol, whereas its slide rides inside the frame rails, rather than outside as in the traditional Browning pattern. This latter featured mimics the frame-to-receiver interface of its predecessor in Swiss military service, the Luger pistol, allowing for a very tight fit between the slide, barrel, and frame without compromising reliability. This construction feature contributes to the unusually high accuracy for which the SIG P210 is known. It ships with a 50-meter (54.7 yd) test target typically showing a group of five to ten shots in a cluster under 5 cm (2 in) in diameter.






*SIG Sauer P220*

The P220 operates by the locked breech short-recoil method pioneered by John Browning. On firing, the slide and barrel are locked together until, after a few millimetres of rearward movement, the barrel is cammed down at the rear after the pressure has dropped enough when the bullet has departed the barrel, whereupon the slide completes the rearward stroke ejecting the spent cartridge. The recoil spring then propels the slide forwards, stripping a round from the magazine, and in the last few millimetres of forward movement, the barrel is cammed upwards at the rear, locking the slide and barrel together again. Instead of the locking lugs and recesses milled into the barrel and slide of other Browning-type weapons as the Colt M1911A1, Browning Hi-Power and CZ 75, the P220 variants (and many other modern pistols) lock the barrel and slide together using an enlarged breech section on the barrel locking into the ejection port. This simplifies manufacture but has no functional disadvantages. The slide of the P220 series is a heavy-gauge sheet metal stamping with a welded-on nose section incorporating an internal barrel bushing. The welding is so well-executed it is almost impossible to detect. The breech block portion is a machined insert attached to the slide by means of a roll pin visible from either side. The frame is of forged alloy with a hard-anodised coating. While designed for ease of production, the SIG 220 series is of the highest quality and there is no compromise in durability or functionality compared to pistols produced using more traditional methods. The SIG P220 series incorporates a hammer-drop lever to the rear of the trigger on the left side, which first appeared on the Sauer 38H before World War I. After chambering a round, the hammer will be cocked, so for safe carriage the hammer drop is actuated with the thumb, dropping the hammer in a safe manner. The P220 also introduced a firing pin block safety which is activated by the trigger mechanismsimilar to the one used in the Colt M1911's Series 80 pistols. The pistol may now be holstered, and can be fired without actuating any other controls. The first shot will be fired in double action mode, unless the firer chooses to manually **** the hammer. Double action trigger pressure is around 1214 pounds, and subsequent shots will be fired in single action mode with a lighter trigger pressure of around 6 pounds.







*SIG Sauer P226*
The SIG P226 is a full-sized, service-type pistol made by SIG Sauer. It is chambered for the 9×19mm Parabellum, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and .22 Long Rifle. It is essentially the same basic design of the SIG P220, but developed to use higher capacity, staggered-column magazines in place of the single-column magazines of the P220.






*SIG Pro Series*

The SIG Pro is a short recoil operated, locked breech semi-automatic pistol. It uses a traditional Browning cam-operated locking system. The barrel locks into the slide via enlarged ejection port.
The frame is made from polymer, with detachable grip panels. Grip panels can be easily replaced and are available in several different sizes and shapes.
The overall design is slightly different from earlier SIG-Sauer pistols such as P220 or P226, as there is no separate disassembly lever on the frame and the slide stop lever looks quite different.

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## RescueRanger

Anyone ever owned any of these:




TT-33 clone in .30 variants, could be "fiddled" to fire full auto, resulting in often disastrous consequences.

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## MilSpec

RescueRanger said:


> Anyone ever owned any of these:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TT-33 clone in .30 variants, could be "fiddled" to fire full auto, resulting in often disastrous consequences.



I have been bitten by bug of collecting soviet bloc firearms... I highly admire the 7.62 x 25 tokarev round and the fire work at the muzzle it brings. I often look at Jgsales website and think of buying a tt33 but have controlled my self till now. I was very close to buying the CZ52 chambered in the same round last year, but the dealer offered a TZ75 at the last minute at price which was hard to refuse at that time. And a week later the CZ52 was gone. Have you shot the TT33 any stories worth sharing??

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## RescueRanger

sandy_3126 said:


> I have been bitten by bug of collecting soviet bloc firearms... I highly admire the 7.62 x 25 tokarev round and the fire work at the muzzle it brings. I often look at Jgsales website and think of buying a tt33 but have controlled my self till now. I was very close to buying the CZ52 chambered in the same round last year, but the dealer offered a TZ75 at the last minute at price which was hard to refuse at that time. And a week later the CZ52 was gone. Have you shot the TT33 any stories worth sharing??



CZ52 is a really nice bit of kit, With regards to the TT33, yes indeed i have owned both the local Peshawar manufactured and a Romanian clone. The local ones if manufactured by reputable gunsmiths then you have no problem, but there are a few on Kohat road that sell utter garbage that will blow up in your hand


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## MilSpec

RescueRanger said:


> CZ52 is a really nice bit of kit, With regards to the TT33, yes indeed i have owned both the local Peshawar manufactured and a Romanian clone. The local ones if manufactured by reputable gunsmiths then you have no problem, but there are a few on Kohat road that sell utter garbage that will blow up in your hand



When I became a gun owner, I joined an indian gun forum, One very helpful member there educated me about the 7.62 x 25 round and the dazzling muzzle flash it brings. I was wondering how does it shoot, I have shot only the 9mm, .40 and .45, what would be the closest comparable caliber characteristics you would rate it too. Recently I made a choice only to own 9mils, to ensure I dont have too many calibers in the cabinet, Hence I am trying to stay away from russian mil surp psitol cartridges but then the price of surplus firearms are like super magnets. 

I have been super fascinated by the gunsmiths of pakistan. I really really hope their trade craft survives the tough times imposed by gun regulations. Pakistani filmmakers should try and make documentaries on this subject.

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## RescueRanger

sandy_3126 said:


> When I became a gun owner, I joined an indian gun forum, One very helpful member there educated me about the 7.62 x 25 round and the dazzling muzzle flash it brings. I was wondering how does it shoot, I have shot only the 9mm, .40 and .45, what would be the closest comparable caliber characteristics you would rate it too. Recently I made a choice only to own 9mils, to ensure I dont have too many calibers in the cabinet, Hence I am trying to stay away from russian mil surp psitol cartridges but then the price of surplus firearms are like super magnets.
> 
> I have been super fascinated by the gunsmiths of pakistan. I really really hope their trade craft survives the tough times imposed by gun regulations. Pakistani filmmakers should try and make documentaries on this subject.



Actually it has now become a formal industry:
PHSADC
Pakistan Hunting and Sporting Arms Development Company promotes "Hunting & Sporting Arms and accessories" (Exhibitors TV @ IDEAS Pakistan 2012) - Video Dailymotion

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## fallstuff

Anybody ever tried a Ruger 9mm p95? 

How much it costs in Pakistan ?


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## MilSpec

fallstuff said:


> Anybody ever tried a Ruger 9mm p95?
> 
> How much it costs in Pakistan ?



I have tried it here in US, it's' a decent reliable economic pistol, did not like the serrated grips, but other than that, it shoots true, good bang for the buck.


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## fallstuff

sandy_3126 said:


> I have tried it here in US, it's' a decent reliable economic pistol, did not like the serrated grips, but other than that, it shoots true, good bang for the buck.




It has the perfect grip for me. Fits nicely in a pocket.


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## MilSpec

fallstuff said:


> It has the perfect grip for me. Fits nicely in a pocket.



I hope by pocket, you meant pocket of a holster. Anyways if you do own it or plan to own it, do go ahead and post a review of it. 
enjoy!


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## fallstuff

sandy_3126 said:


> I hope by pocket, you meant pocket of a holster. Anyways if you do own it or plan to own it, do go ahead and post a review of it.
> enjoy!



Literally in pant pockets. 

Glock is just too big.


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## MilSpec

fallstuff said:


> Literally in pant pockets.
> 
> Glock is just too big.



As I said, it's a well priced handgun, be safe if you do intend to carry it in pocket, a ccw holster like the following might come in handy






I too am not a big fan of glock.
I neither open carry nor conceal carry my pistols, brown guy with a gun is scary in this country, hence size has never been an option, my handguns include, TZ 75, S&W sigma 9mm, Taurus PT 92...

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## Irfan Baloch

sandy_3126 said:


> I have tried it here in US, it's' a decent reliable economic pistol, did not like the serrated grips, but other than that, it shoots true, good bang for the buck.



how are you as a foreigner affected by some gun control since 911 on nonWhites?
of course you have to show that you are not Muslim but still at firing range dont you get apprehensive looks by Freedom loving Americans?


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## MilSpec

Irfan Baloch said:


> how are you as a foreigner affected by some gun control since 911 on nonWhites?
> of course you have to show that you are not Muslim but still at firing range dont you get apprehensive looks by Freedom loving Americans?



Irfan sir, 

I dont think there are any gun control laws specifically directed towards non whits, If you dont have a criminal record, you can own a firearm! 

I'm in california, and people are cool over here. Gun enthusiasts here are afraid of hippies than the brown guy with the AK. Most of the times i get mistaken for hispanic due to my short hair and do I tend to talk to shooters around me at the range if i get some suspicious looks, and at the range the guns are a uniting factor. 

As far as carrying one on person and coming across a cop, i would never endanger myself with that situation. Brown guy with a firearm, at least i can expect a trip downtown or worst my wife would expect a fat check from the life insurance.

as far as gun control is concerned, I dont really care about the restriction because I am from india where there are no guns.

I am not too big on assault rifles, and dont really care if they do ban it. i like long range shooting and hunting, most of the firearms that I wanted to own, i already do, hence i dont sweat the gun control stuff. As far as second ammendment is concerned, i dont subscribe to fear of tyrannical govt, and especially using arms to protect oneself from the government. I dont subscribe to aliens, zombies, SHTF, wrol, mass terror or EMP stuff, I am a recreational shooter, but I do support the NRA and believe that access to firearms should not be forbidden, instead there should be better implementation of the laws in the book.

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## Irfan Baloch

I had an unlicensed 30 bore pistol or TT as we call it and I got rid of it.
whatever else I got is gifts from my father including his .38 vintage British revolver and rifle # 5. we both keep them in mint condition. 
they are a treat to shoot during Eid, New year or at range.







> The Enfield No.2 Mk I * revolver was the most widely used of all the British and Commonwealth armed forces. Firing a 0.38-in (9.65mm) ball cartridge, it was an efficient combat pistol but lacked any finesse or frills; yet it was able to withstand the many knocks of service life.



sorry the thread is about handguns but since I mentioned an unusual name that many wont know so I decided to share it







> The No 5 rifle (or "Jungle Carbine") was shortened version of the standard No 4 rifle, intended for jungle warfare. The increased recoil felt due to the shortening of the barrel necessitated the fitting of a rubber butt pad. A conical flash-hider was employed to mitigate muzzle-flash. Over 178,000 examples of this rifle were produced during 1944 and 1945, by BSA Ltd of Birmingham and the Royal Ordnance Factory at Fazakerley, Lancashire. Persistent problems with accuracy resulted in the No 5 being declared obsolete in 1947.




but thats where we stopped. we did get a Belgiun pump action shotgun as a present but never got to use it.


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## Manticore




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## MilSpec

Time to revive this thread:

*Keltec PMR 30: *

Very interesting little gun, but then again, most things made by keltec are either quirky or interesting. This pistol is chambered in .22 magnum and has a hybrid blowback locked bolt mixed kind of action. Now most people are skeptical of the 9mm, wouldn't let .22 magnum ever stand a chance to down a human size target in one shot. Now thats where the PMR 30 shines, this pistol chambers 30 ROUNDS! hence even if your target doesn't drop by a tiny .22 wound, you still have 29 more almost recoil-less followup round to put down your target. 






*Daewoo K5*

K5 is a compact, lightweight pistol with an unconventional trigger mechanism called "fast action". The frame is composed of an aluminum alloy with a matte finish, while the slide is of blued steel.
The "fast action" trigger mechanism allows the hammer to be decocked while still keeping the mainspring compressed. A light pull on the trigger causes the hammer to flick back, after which the pistol would behave in conventional single-action (SA) mode.






*Viper JAWS pistol
*
The Viper JAWS is a solid and well made pistol with several interesting features, such as simple and robust design and modular construction. VIPER pistol can be easily reconfigured for several pistol calibers simply by replacing the barrel, breech face insert, the extractor and the magazine. This reconfiguration, as well as a standard field-stripping procedure, requires no tools. Grip panels also can be easily replaced with another unit with different shape or dimensions. Viper is a short recoil operated, locked breech pistol with rotating barrel. On recoil, barrel rotates to unlock from the slide, by following the curved track on the frame. The double action trigger with its linkage is easily accessible for maintenance and cleaning via removable side plate, inserted into the cut cat the right side of the frame from the top. The ambidextrous safety lever is located on both sides of the slide and also acts as a decocker when safety is engaged. Both front and rear sight are dovetailed into the slide and can be easily changed if required.






*Caracal - UAE*

Before being put into production the Caracal pistol was evaluated through independent tests. These tests were carried out by the Federal German Armed Forces Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition (WTD 91) in Meppen, Germany which included metallurgic and composite analysis, functional fitness-for-purpose and quality evaluation, endurance firing, environmental exposure, safety and accuracy tests. A certificate was issued by the Bundeswehr Technical Center for Weapons and Ammunition (WTD 91) in May 2006 after the pistol successfully complied with the NATO D14 standard, the German Federal Police Standard and the German Federal Armed Forces Technical Purchasing requirements. These tests are the most stringent test protocols ever devised for a service firearm

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## Zabaniyah

*QBZ-92*






Some of the newest entries into the handgun market. This handgun is available in both 9 mm and 5.8 mm versions. It is a short recoil operated, locked breech pistol. 

It uses a rotating barrel to lock and unlock the slide on recoil. It's frame is made out of polymer. Trigger mechanism is double action, with the external hammer and safety lever mounted on both sides of the frame. 

Dual stack magazine holds 15 rounds of ammunition in either caliber. Front part of the frame under the barrel is shaped as an accessory rail to accept laser sights or flashlights. Fixed sights have luminous inserts for low light conditions.

This is the standard sidearm of the PLA and the Bangladesh Army, mainly replacing the Type-54 (copy of Soviet TT-33).

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## MilSpec

*Steyr M1 and M1A*






The Steyr M series pistols were first announced in 1999. Steyr M pistols, along with compact version, Steyr S, which were made in Austria by the Steyr-Mannlicher GmbH & Co, are not made any more. Since the January 1st, 2004, the Steyr M and Steyr S pistols have been replaced in production by the slightly redesigned Steyr M-1A pistols. Steyr M1-A pistols feature redesigned grip and frame shape, and Picatinny rail (instead of the proprietary rail) under the barrel. Another change from original M series pistols is that M-1A pistols are now available in two variants, with or without manual safety. There are probably some more minor differences.

The Steyr M and M-1A pistols have probably the most ergonomic grip since the Luger's "Parabellum" pistol. The ideal 111 degrees grip angle, combined with low barrel axis, results in minimum muzzle jump and felt recoil, as well as in good "pointability". The unusual "trapezoid" sights, while uncommon in shape, provide good accuracy and acquisition speed, once shooter gets used to it.

Type: Double Action 
Chamber: .40 S&W, 9x19mm Para, .357 SIG

*Taurus 24/7 *






First Taurus 24/7 pistols were presented in 2004, in attempt to offer a new, lightweight and potent pistol for police, security and civilian users. These pistols were available in a variety of "major" calibers, and in a number of finish options. early pistols were Double Action Only but recently Taurus also introduced a conventional Double / Single action 24/7 pistols.

Taurus 24/7 pistols are short recoil operated, locked breech pistols that use modified Browning-type locking, with single lug on the barrel engaging the ejection port in the slide. Frames of Taurus 24/7 pistols are made from impact-resistant polymer; slides can be made from carbon or stainless steel. Trigger is either double / single action or double action only, striker-fired, with internal firing pin block safety and manual safety, located on the left side of the frame. Magazines are double stack. Sights are fixed. front part of the frame, below the barrel, is shaped to form an integral Picatinny-type accessory rail.

*Beretta PX4 Storm*






The PX4 Storm pistol is the latest addition to Beretta's line of semiautomatic pistols. The PX4 is designed using most modern concepts in combat handguns, such as maximum flexibility, most modern polymer materials, and most popular calibers. Available in the USA since late 2004, this pistol is an obvious attempt of the famous Italian company to regain its position on the US market. We yet shall see, if this attempt will succeed.

Technically, the PX4 pistol is a further development of the Beretta 8000 Cougar series pistols. PX4 pistol uses same recoil operated, locked breech system with rotating barrel. Much like the Cougar, the PX4 has a special frame insert with top- projecting stud, which causes the barrel to rotate on recoil to unlock from the slide. This insert is mounted on the recoil spring guide rod, and is spring-buffered to reduce peak recoil, which is transferred from barrel to frame. The frame is made from high strength polymer, with dual disassembly buttons, located on both sides of the frame, ahead of the trigger guard. To remove the slide and barrel, one must unload the pistol, then push both buttons inward and then pull the slide forward and off the frame. The slide stop levers are situated on both sides of the frame and are ergonomically shaped. Modular trigger system of PX4 Storm pistol is available in four basic models: Type F - conventional double action with manual safety/decocker; Type D - double action only, less safety or decocker, with spurless hammer; Type G - conventional double action with manual decocker and no safety; and Type C - with so called "constant action" and spurless hammer (sort of DAO system with less trigger pull weight). In the F and D modifications, safety / decocker levers are located on both sides of the slide. The grip of the PX4 has removable backstraps; each gun is supplied with three backstraps of different sizes, so the actual grip can be adapted to most shooters. The frame also features a standard Picatinny-type accessory rail as a standard. Magazine capacity is 17 rounds of 9mm ammo or 14 rounds of .40SW ammo. With optional extended capacity magazine baseplates (also available from Beretta), capacity is increased to impressive 20 rounds of 9mm or 17 rounds of .40SW.

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## HRK

don't know its appropriate to post it here or not................


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## fahad196

i like it Taurus Clone PT92 i love hand guns


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## shumailatariq

i like it hand guns but i can't parches this gun


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## desib1398

*can anyone tell me please how i buy gun now with license ??*


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## skybolt

__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=404140786433812


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## skybolt




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## skybolt




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## IrbiS

skybolt said:


>


Nice diversity


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## Faiez

skybolt said:


>



I followed the instructions...The gun is not shooting....
Can you think of a reason why ?

No finger on the trigger...lol



skybolt said:


>



If they could just make one with 4 firing modes and safety, you wouldn't need all of these lol...

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## skybolt

Faiez said:


> I followed the instructions...The gun is not shooting....
> Can you think of a reason why ?
> 
> No finger on the trigger...lol
> 
> 
> 
> If they could just make one with 4 firing modes and safety, you wouldn't need all of these lol...



top most is having all 4


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## Faiez

skybolt said:


> top most is having all 4



no it has 3 firing modes and a safety...
It has full auto, 2 round burst and single shot. But no 3 round burst mode like in others. So one mode is still missing...



skybolt said:


>



Go to any commercial place, the guards have the guns pointed towards people...It fu*king scares me every time...What if.....What if...

And sometimes I even start arguing with those idiots...

Even more idiotic is using guards equipped with fully automatic assault rifles at such close quarters(10ft open space in front of them, majority of people passing them by at 3-5ft)...They should have handguns.

Similar thing with the army as well...Sometimes you see a truck loaded with soldiers with loaded G3s pointed right at your face...People would disagree with me but what they do at the security checkpoints, fully loaded MG-3s or what ever pointing right at your face with safety off and a finger on the trigger. Their policy is "everyone's a terrorist unless proven otherwise"....Disgusting. Their primary goals being 1) kill terrorist 2) protect themselves, our safety is the least of their concern. And besides it makes no difference if they don't have that loaded machine guns pointing towards everyone's face...The attacker is not gonna shoot at anyone, he'll probably blow himself up...


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## skybolt

Faiez said:


> no it has 3 firing modes and a safety...
> It has full auto, 2 round burst and single shot. But no 3 round burst mode like in others. So one mode is still missing...
> 
> 
> 
> Go to any commercial place, the guards have the guns pointed towards people...It fu*king scares me every time...What if.....What if...
> 
> And sometimes I even start arguing with those idiots...
> 
> Similar thing with the army as well...Sometimes you see a truck loaded with soldiers with loaded G3s pointed right at your face...People would disagree with me but what they do at the security checkpoints, fully loaded MG-3s or what ever pointing right at your face with safety off and a finger on the trigger. Their policy is "everyone's a terrorist unless proven otherwise"....Disgusting. Their primary goals being 1) kill terrorist 2) protect themselves, our safety is the least of their concern. And besides it makes no difference if they don't have that loaded machine guns pointing towards everyone's face...The attacker is not gonna shoot at anyone, he'll probably blow himself up...


dont worry har bar G3 loaded nahi hoti...


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## Faiez

skybolt said:


> dont worry har bar G3 loaded nahi hoti...



There's no way to tell...The checkpoints are always loaded I think...Someone once told me that police people don't keep the safety on for "readiness"....


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## skybolt

Faiez said:


> There's no way to tell...The checkpoints are always loaded I think...Someone once told me that police people don't keep the safety on for "readiness"....


i cannot say about Police... but Pak Army is really professional force... so don't worry they will never shoot you by mistake.


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## Faiez

skybolt said:


> i cannot say about Police... but Pak Army is really professional force... so don't worry they will never shoot you by mistake.



mistakes happen. FACT !

Anywhere around the world (and including Pakistan) in any basic weapons safety course you're taught never to point a weapon, loaded or not towards anyone. And keep it pointed towards the ground. And keep safety on. No one follows that in Pakistan...


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## skybolt

Faiez said:


> mistakes happen. FACT !
> 
> Anywhere around the world (and including Pakistan) in any basic weapons safety course you're taught never to point a weapon, loaded or not towards anyone. And keep it pointed towards the ground. And keep safety on. No one follows that in Pakistan...


Safety is always ON in Pakistan Armed forces case. i cannot say about Police


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## Faiez

skybolt said:


> Safety is always ON in Pakistan Armed forces case. i cannot say about Police



Even at security checkpoints ?


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## skybolt

Faiez said:


> Even at security checkpoints ?


Whatever the case...Pak Army is not shooting anyone passing by



Faiez said:


> Even at security checkpoints ?


Whatever the case...Pak Army is not shooting anyone passing by


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## black-hawk_101

What about PK-9 Gun? I think its one of the best guns.


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## vostok

I do not know whether it's appropriate in this section but nevertheless.
TOZ-123 (ТОЗ-123) 26mm gun














KS-23 (КС-23) 23mm gun




"Tulyak" (Туляк) 23mm gun

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## denel

MilSpec said:


> The CZ-75 Family, cousins and relatives.
> 
> The CZ 75- The BOSS
> The CZ 75 is a semi-automatic pistol made by &[HASHTAG]#268[/HASHTAG];eská zbrojovka Uherský Brod (CZUB) in the Czech Republic. First introduced in 1975, it is one of the original "wonder nines" featuring a staggered-column magazine, all-steel construction, and a hammer forged barrel. It has a good reputation amongst pistol shooters for quality and versatility at a reasonable price, and is widely distributed throughout the world. It is also the most common gun in the Czech Republic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Italian Connection
> 
> Tanfoglio TZ-75
> Due to politics the Czechs could not market their pistol in the United States and because CZ failed to secure world patent protection for their design, a number of firms copied it. Foremost Italian firm Fratelli Tanfoglio made good business marketing the pistol to the West with the design being so solid, that two shooters, US national Doug Koenig and Frenchman Eric Grauffel, have won the hard fought IPSC World Championship using pistols based on CZ 75 design. That was tremendous endorsement for any handgun design because all other World Champions up to the time had used pistols based on the John Browning 1911 format.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *MY OWN TZ 75*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Israeli Baby Eagle / Jericho 941
> The original Jericho 941 was based on the well-respected CZ-75 pistol designed and produced by &[HASHTAG]#268[/HASHTAG];eská zbrojovka (CZ) of the Czech Republic and built using parts supplied by the Italian arms house Tanfoglio, which had been making their own CZ-75 clones. Using a well-tested design allowed IMI to avoid the teething problems most new pistol designs experience, and subcontracting much of the basic fabrication work to Tanfoglio allowed IMI to quickly and economically put into production a pistol that would have enough Israeli content to satisfy government contract requirements.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Turkish Relative SAR - K12
> Based on the classic CZ-75 pattern, which has to be the most copied pistol design in the world, these are hefty, accurate pistols.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Magnum research - Baby Eagle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New gen CZ 75 SP-01 Poly frame


CZ75B - the best 9mm i ever had. Even after 25yrs, still going strong. Another one is CZ83 - a true classic beauty


----------



## denel

Irfan Baloch said:


> I had an unlicensed 30 bore pistol or TT as we call it and I got rid of it.
> whatever else I got is gifts from my father including his .38 vintage British revolver and rifle # 5. we both keep them in mint condition.
> they are a treat to shoot during Eid, New year or at range.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sorry the thread is about handguns but since I mentioned an unusual name that many wont know so I decided to share it
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but thats where we stopped. we did get a Belgiun pump action shotgun as a present but never got to use it.


No 5 was very poor quality. I have No4 Mk2 manufactured in 1948. It is my pride and joy. Many folks here have sportised theirs but i have left it as it; it even has the cleaning kit in the butt (yes, there is a brass edge, open in and you have a cleaning rod in there.


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## Irfan Baloch

denel said:


> No 5 was very poor quality. I have No4 Mk2 manufactured in 1948. It is my pride and joy. Many folks here have sportised theirs but i have left it as it; it even has the cleaning kit in the butt (yes, there is a brass edge, open in and you have a cleaning rod in there.


I have no way of comparing it with anything else. father bought it from a military auction. I read that this carbine was made with the far eastern jungle campaign in mind. 
we keep it in good nick and it fires good and has never jammed. everything is original and we didnt customize anything. 
but I might exchange it for a good customized .22 rifle I have in mind.


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## denel

Irfan Baloch said:


> I have no way of comparing it with anything else. father bought it from a military auction. I read that this carbine was made with the far eastern jungle campaign in mind.
> we keep it in good nick and it fires good and has never jammed. everything is original and we didnt customize anything.
> but I might exchange it for a good customized .22 rifle I have in mind.


No 5 has a bad habit of barrels exploding as the quality of steel is not good and does not last long. Just make sure it is cleaned regularly and inspect it for any odd trails - pull the bolt out completely and you can see thru it. You can make out if anything is off; it is an old tested method we use here for No 2 Lee Enfields - yes, some people still have them in working order.
If i was in your position, swap it - it is not worth much.


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## vostok

Machine gun AEK-999: silent "Badger" for special forces

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## jhungary

vostok said:


> Machine gun AEK-999: silent "Badger" for special forces
> View attachment 228676
> View attachment 228677
> View attachment 228680
> View attachment 228681



dude, *HANDGUN *info banks.............


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## vostok

jhungary said:


> dude, *HANDGUN *info banks.............


Unfortunately, I did not find the section for machine guns.


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## jhungary

vostok said:


> Unfortunately, I did not find the section for machine guns.



open one.


----------



## vostok

ПЛ-14 (Пистолет Лебедева - 14). Lebedev Gun - 14, PL-14 developed by concern "Kalashnikov".








Specifications gun:
Caliber 9 × 19 mm
Length mm 220
Height mm 136
Thickness mm 28
Barrel length 127 mm
Magazine capacity, rounds 15
Weight without ammunition, 0.8 kg
Weight with loaded magazine, kg 0.99


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## vostok

New photo of PL-14

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## black-hawk_101

Which is best Hand Gun and how much does it cost? And is it available in Pakistan?


----------



## fatman17

Sidearm of Gen GS Patton USA

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## Audio

Yoyo, might as well ask here. Any opinions on SIG P239?

Thanks in advance.


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## MilSpec

Audio said:


> Yoyo, might as well ask here. Any opinions on SIG P239?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


I shot one chambered in 9mm owned by a co-worker and liked it.
Nice ergonomics, I like the trigger, most people I have met usually have an issue with the DA/SA trigger, but I like the trigger on the sig,( considering I am a CZ guy) there is no creep in SA, in DA too it breaks clean, if any one is transitioning from a striker fired SA trigger, it will take some time to get used to, but if you are accustomed to DA/SA full frame wonder nines, the trigger will be a pleasant surprise. Would be a good carry choice as long as you can get a good holster.


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## Audio

MilSpec said:


> I shot one chambered in 9mm owned by a co-worker and liked it.
> Nice ergonomics, I like the trigger, most people I have met usually have an issue with the DA/SA trigger, but I like the trigger on the sig,( considering I am a CZ guy) there is no creep in SA, in DA too it breaks clean, if any one is transitioning from a striker fired SA trigger, it will take some time to get used to, but if you are accustomed to DA/SA full frame wonder nines, the trigger will be a pleasant surprise. Would be a good carry choice as long as you can get a good holster.



Most of my shooting experience comes from high school (lol-20 years ago)....we were going to the shooting yard and renting the range per the hour, kids with too much testosterone tbh....so, newbie in all aspects.


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## MilSpec

Audio said:


> Most of my shooting experience comes from high school (lol-20 years ago)....we were going to the shooting yard and renting the range per the hour, kids with too much testosterone tbh....so, newbie in all aspects.


What is your application? P239 is a singe stack small frame to cater to the conceal carry market. It is a good handgun if you wan't to carry it on your person,
If you are lookign to just have some fun and range time, I'd say pick a full frame pistol. Like the Glock 19, Springfield XDM, CZ75Sp01, Berreta 92fs etc.


----------



## Audio

MilSpec said:


> What is your application? P239 is a singe stack small frame to cater to the conceal carry market. It is a good handgun if you wan't to carry it on your person,
> If you are lookign to just have some fun and range time, I'd say pick a full frame pistol. Like the Glock 19, Springfield XDM, CZ75Sp01, Berreta 92fs etc.



i'm a (somewhat) pretty boy, living i a land where 400.000 sex starved refugees passed by so far.....slight sarcasm and exaggeration i admit, but only slight...thanks for info


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## MilSpec

Audio said:


> i'm a (somewhat) pretty boy, living i a land where 400.000 sex starved refugees passed by so far.....slight sarcasm and exaggeration i admit, but only slight...thanks for info



Well if that's your application, then pick up a IWI Jericho/ CZ75 steel full frame.


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## Aham Brahmasmi

@MilSpec (n others too) 
hey sir, my father mostly work out side of my State so i need a new gun for my family's safety (dad ki taraf se gift hain/hogi ) can u suggest me few best but cheap Handguns ? (mostly 9mm)


----------



## MilSpec

Aham Brahmasmi said:


> @MilSpec (n others too)
> hey sir, my father mostly work out side of my State so i need a new gun for my family's safety (dad ki taraf se gift hain/hogi ) can u suggest me few best but cheap Handguns ? (mostly 9mm)


you cannot buy 9mm (luger) the only 9mm you can buy in india is the 9mm makarov and the ammo is very hard to come buy.


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## Aham Brahmasmi

MilSpec said:


> you cannot buy 9mm (luger) the only 9mm you can buy in india is the *9mm makarov* and the ammo is very hard to come buy.


tough luck 

koi special permission chahiye ? for owning 9mm handguns ? and sir, do i have any other options ?


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## MilSpec

Aham Brahmasmi said:


> buttugly gun


*9×18mm Makarov* designated *9mm Makarov, there are different firearms chambered in 9mmx18*


----------



## Maarkhoor

*Taurus Judge*








The .410 bore and .45 Long Colt combination seemed natural. While it has been done before, Taurus brought the reputation of a major maker to the plate. Today there are lightweight and steel frame revolvers with various barrel lengths available. It seems almost everyone owns a Judge or two. Yet I have never seen anyone carry the Judge for concealed carry
The Judge is a bedroom gun as well as a field gun. As a field gun for protection against snakes, the Judge makes a lot of sense. While the old Snake Charmer shotgun did just fine, I prefer more than one shot; the Taurus gives us five.

The Judge chambers the .45 Colt cartridge, and there are versions that chamber either the 2.5-inch or 3-inch .410shell. For my two cents, you might as well get the longer cylinder and chamber 3-inch shells. The cylinder of the Judge is pretty long—2.7 inches with the 2.5-inch barrel revolver and a long 3.2 inches with the 3-inch chamber. That makes for a heavy gun and a wide frame. The Taurus is a swing out cylinder, double-action revolver with fixed sights. By the way, the piece would be illegal if it were a smooth bore: it would be a short shotgun, so the barrel is rifled.





The Taurus Judge is fast on target and plenty accurate enough for personal defense.

A word to the wise, this is not the revolver to hotrod the .45 Colt. Recoil is prohibitive even though the Judge is designed to be portable and light enough for field use. It handles quickly in tight quarters. Most of the practice should be with a good, low-pressure load such as the Federal 225-grain JSP. This load is pleasant to fire and accurate. Make no mistake; a .452-inch .45 caliber bullet is going to get the attention of anything it hits. Mild shooting and accurate just the same, the .45 Colt hits hard.

The choices in home defense loads often come down to which .410 load. There are loads with birdshot and even special 000 buckshot loads. The birdshot loads are fine for dispatching reptiles or rodents. Buckshot is the preferred defense load. The Federal four-pellet buckshot load in 2 ½-inch seems fine for across the room personal defense.





Lots of birdshot, and a couple of ball rounds from one handgun.

While the idea of getting a hit from a handgun-sized shotgun is viable at close range, the Judge must be aimed just as carefully as any other handgun. An advantage is that the buckshot load, with its relatively small and soft shot, will not penetrate as heavily as ball ammunition. When firing the Judge, the broad and easy-to-pick-up fixed sights are an advantage. The rubber grips that soak up recoil and give good adhesion are also good design features.

As for the lightweight frame gun, it is a good bit easier to pack around. The trade off is that recoil and muzzle flip are greater. It is a trade off; the lightweight revolver isn’t painful to fire, although with the heavier loads you know you have touched off something special.

*The Taurus Judge As a Home Defense Revolver*
With buckshot, the Judge should be considered a 10-yard gun at best. Past 10 yards, the range dispersion of the buckshot is such that the load becomes ineffective. At close range, four tightly clustered buckshot balls should produce a cessation of hostilities. With the 3-inch shells, five balls may be had with even greater effect.

The Judge is definitely a bedroom or home defense revolver with the .45 Colt. Accuracy at long range isn’t match grade with the shallow rifling, and it isn’t meant to be. In testing the Judge with a number of loads—including the Speer Gold Dot, a heavyweight 250-grain hollow point—the Judge keeps five rounds in a six-inch circle at 10 yards. Not many bedrooms are 10 yards long.
I think the .410 bore chambering is a neat trick but so is the .45—and here’s why. In the Judge, we have a modern double action defensive revolver in a proven caliber. I might add a proven non-magnum caliber that doesn’t snap the wrist in recoil. Yet, the revolver is light enough to handle quickly by virtue of its five-shot cylinder. The Judge offers a fiber optic front sight that gets on target quickly.

The .45 Colt in its original 255-grain loading earned an excellent reputation for effect on target. The bullet sometimes tumbles in the target. On the other hand, the modern Gold Dot load—although traveling a little over 700 fps from the Judge—expands to some .75-inch in ballistic media. That is .75-inch with a 250-grain bullet. That is a guaranteed wounding effect.





My associate and firearms expert (and soldier) Lee Berry gave the Taurus Judge a through test.

When in the wild, the big cats and feral dogs are more often a threat than bears. Perhaps the first three chambers could be loaded with buckshot and then ball rounds? If you are hiking in snake country, perhaps a first load of birdshot? That is versatility.

The Judge is a pure defense revolver. It isn’t for hunting and it isn’t a target gun.

It is a lifesaver.

While specialized, those specialized situations are pretty important!
*Taurus Judge*




Taurus "Raging Judge" Magnum revolver with a six inch barrel, chambered in .454 Casull, .45 Colt and .410 bore, all judges can fire .45 S&W as well.
*Type* Revolver
*Place of origin* Brazil
*Production history
Manufacturer* Taurus International
*Produced* 2010–present
*Variants* 4410, 4510, 513
*Specifications
Weight* 29 oz (820 g)
*Length* 7.5 in (190 mm)
*Barrel length* 3 in (76 mm)
*Width* 1.531 in (38.9 mm)
*Height* 5.394 in (137.0 mm)
*Caliber* .410 bore
.454 Casull
.45 Colt
.45 S&W
*Action* Double-action revolver
*Feed system* 5,6,7 round cylinder
*Sights* Fixed

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## MilSpec

Aham Brahmasmi said:


> tough luck
> 
> koi special permission chahiye ? for owning 9mm handguns ? and sir, do i have any other options ?


Yes, 9mm (luger) is a Prohibited Bore in India. Any caliber in use by security forces in india cannot be legally owned by civilians without a Prohibited Bore (waiver) license which is extremely difficult to obtain. 

you can buy 32acp, .357, .380, 9mmshort (makarov), 9mm kurz, .22LR, .22WMR etc..


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## Audio

MilSpec said:


> Well if that's your application, then pick up a IWI Jericho/ CZ75 steel full frame.



Looks too big to be honest...


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## vostok

Assault Revolver RSH-12, caliber 12.7 mm. Designed for Special Forces.

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## vostok

Larry Vickers testing the Lebedev PL-15K pistol (Kalashnikov company).


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## sikk

vostok said:


> Larry Vickers testing the Lebedev PL-15K pistol (Kalashnikov company).


I read that Udav O1 (Boa Constrictor) has been given contract to replace the Makarov..
I like the design of PL-15 but I will go for something which is very reliable,accurate and durable...
I will be buying a Russian firearm and has narrowed down to either PL-15 or Udav (civilian version ofc)..
At first I liked MP-446C Viking M very much but heard it had many flaws but some say it has lifespan of 50,000 rounds.. I dont know much.. do you have any idea about these weapons?


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## vostok

sikk said:


> I read that Udav O1 (Boa Constrictor) has been given contract to replace the Makarov..
> I like the design of PL-15 but I will go for something which is very reliable,accurate and durable...
> I will be buying a Russian firearm and has narrowed down to either PL-15 or Udav (civilian version ofc)..
> At first I liked MP-446C Viking M very much but heard it had many flaws but some say it has lifespan of 50,000 rounds.. I dont know much.. do you have any idea about these weapons?


I can't help you, because I never see those pistols.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

vostok said:


> Assault Revolver RSH-12, caliber 12.7 mm. Designed for Special Forces.
> View attachment 314757
> View attachment 314759
> View attachment 314760


Now that is something Id love to own.



Maarkhoor said:


> *Taurus Judge*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The .410 bore and .45 Long Colt combination seemed natural. While it has been done before, Taurus brought the reputation of a major maker to the plate. Today there are lightweight and steel frame revolvers with various barrel lengths available. It seems almost everyone owns a Judge or two. Yet I have never seen anyone carry the Judge for concealed carry
> The Judge is a bedroom gun as well as a field gun. As a field gun for protection against snakes, the Judge makes a lot of sense. While the old Snake Charmer shotgun did just fine, I prefer more than one shot; the Taurus gives us five.
> 
> The Judge chambers the .45 Colt cartridge, and there are versions that chamber either the 2.5-inch or 3-inch .410shell. For my two cents, you might as well get the longer cylinder and chamber 3-inch shells. The cylinder of the Judge is pretty long—2.7 inches with the 2.5-inch barrel revolver and a long 3.2 inches with the 3-inch chamber. That makes for a heavy gun and a wide frame. The Taurus is a swing out cylinder, double-action revolver with fixed sights. By the way, the piece would be illegal if it were a smooth bore: it would be a short shotgun, so the barrel is rifled.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Taurus Judge is fast on target and plenty accurate enough for personal defense.
> 
> A word to the wise, this is not the revolver to hotrod the .45 Colt. Recoil is prohibitive even though the Judge is designed to be portable and light enough for field use. It handles quickly in tight quarters. Most of the practice should be with a good, low-pressure load such as the Federal 225-grain JSP. This load is pleasant to fire and accurate. Make no mistake; a .452-inch .45 caliber bullet is going to get the attention of anything it hits. Mild shooting and accurate just the same, the .45 Colt hits hard.
> 
> The choices in home defense loads often come down to which .410 load. There are loads with birdshot and even special 000 buckshot loads. The birdshot loads are fine for dispatching reptiles or rodents. Buckshot is the preferred defense load. The Federal four-pellet buckshot load in 2 ½-inch seems fine for across the room personal defense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lots of birdshot, and a couple of ball rounds from one handgun.
> 
> While the idea of getting a hit from a handgun-sized shotgun is viable at close range, the Judge must be aimed just as carefully as any other handgun. An advantage is that the buckshot load, with its relatively small and soft shot, will not penetrate as heavily as ball ammunition. When firing the Judge, the broad and easy-to-pick-up fixed sights are an advantage. The rubber grips that soak up recoil and give good adhesion are also good design features.
> 
> As for the lightweight frame gun, it is a good bit easier to pack around. The trade off is that recoil and muzzle flip are greater. It is a trade off; the lightweight revolver isn’t painful to fire, although with the heavier loads you know you have touched off something special.
> 
> *The Taurus Judge As a Home Defense Revolver*
> With buckshot, the Judge should be considered a 10-yard gun at best. Past 10 yards, the range dispersion of the buckshot is such that the load becomes ineffective. At close range, four tightly clustered buckshot balls should produce a cessation of hostilities. With the 3-inch shells, five balls may be had with even greater effect.
> 
> The Judge is definitely a bedroom or home defense revolver with the .45 Colt. Accuracy at long range isn’t match grade with the shallow rifling, and it isn’t meant to be. In testing the Judge with a number of loads—including the Speer Gold Dot, a heavyweight 250-grain hollow point—the Judge keeps five rounds in a six-inch circle at 10 yards. Not many bedrooms are 10 yards long.
> I think the .410 bore chambering is a neat trick but so is the .45—and here’s why. In the Judge, we have a modern double action defensive revolver in a proven caliber. I might add a proven non-magnum caliber that doesn’t snap the wrist in recoil. Yet, the revolver is light enough to handle quickly by virtue of its five-shot cylinder. The Judge offers a fiber optic front sight that gets on target quickly.
> 
> The .45 Colt in its original 255-grain loading earned an excellent reputation for effect on target. The bullet sometimes tumbles in the target. On the other hand, the modern Gold Dot load—although traveling a little over 700 fps from the Judge—expands to some .75-inch in ballistic media. That is .75-inch with a 250-grain bullet. That is a guaranteed wounding effect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My associate and firearms expert (and soldier) Lee Berry gave the Taurus Judge a through test.
> 
> When in the wild, the big cats and feral dogs are more often a threat than bears. Perhaps the first three chambers could be loaded with buckshot and then ball rounds? If you are hiking in snake country, perhaps a first load of birdshot? That is versatility.
> 
> The Judge is a pure defense revolver. It isn’t for hunting and it isn’t a target gun.
> 
> It is a lifesaver.
> 
> While specialized, those specialized situations are pretty important!
> *Taurus Judge*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Taurus "Raging Judge" Magnum revolver with a six inch barrel, chambered in .454 Casull, .45 Colt and .410 bore, all judges can fire .45 S&W as well.
> *Type* Revolver
> *Place of origin* Brazil
> *Production history
> Manufacturer* Taurus International
> *Produced* 2010–present
> *Variants* 4410, 4510, 513
> *Specifications
> Weight* 29 oz (820 g)
> *Length* 7.5 in (190 mm)
> *Barrel length* 3 in (76 mm)
> *Width* 1.531 in (38.9 mm)
> *Height* 5.394 in (137.0 mm)
> *Caliber* .410 bore
> .454 Casull
> .45 Colt
> .45 S&W
> *Action* Double-action revolver
> *Feed system* 5,6,7 round cylinder
> *Sights* Fixed


Whats the damage in PKR?


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## Maarkhoor

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Now that is something Id love to own.
> 
> 
> Whats the damage in PKR?


It may cost you around 50 to 75000 PKR.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Audio said:


> i'm a (somewhat) pretty boy, living i a land where 400.000 sex starved refugees passed by so far.....slight sarcasm and exaggeration i admit, but only slight...thanks for info


You surrounded by Afghans or what?



Maarkhoor said:


> It may cost you around 50 to 75000 PKR.


You sure? The other day I asked my armourer to get a Norinco TT, he quoted me 55K.


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## Maarkhoor

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> You sure? The other day I asked my armourer to get a Norinco TT, he quoted me 55K.


Multan Road Alam armory two years wanted to sell me around 55000 but my father told me not to buy since he consider it dangerous for having it as your side arm especially in the house since he believe spread can hit anyone around you "He was retired army officer and have experience so accept his advise" it was just like a brand new gun with few rounds fired from it.

You can check with the armory which I have mentioned may be they have more.

For T.T local made it starts from 5k to max 25k....

somebody trying to rob you.

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## Kabotar

Maarkhoor said:


> Multan Road Alam armory two years wanted to sell me around 55000 but my father told me not to buy since he consider it dangerous for having it as your side arm especially in the house since he believe spread can hit anyone around you "He was retired army officer and have experience so accept his advise" it was just like a brand new gun with few rounds fired from it.
> 
> You can check with the armory which I have mentioned may be they have more.
> 
> For T.T local made it starts from 5k to max 25k....
> 
> somebody trying to rob you.



How much for local striker fire 9mm?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Maarkhoor said:


> Multan Road Alam armory two years wanted to sell me around 55000 but my father told me not to buy since he consider it dangerous for having it as your side arm especially in the house since he believe spread can hit anyone around you "He was retired army officer and have experience so accept his advise" it was just like a brand new gun with few rounds fired from it.
> 
> You can check with the armory which I have mentioned may be they have more.
> 
> For T.T local made it starts from 5k to max 25k....
> 
> somebody trying to rob you.


Norinco tts price was around 30-35k.
I just received a new arms license & was looking around for a cheap car carry weapon.

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## Maarkhoor

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Norinco tts price was around 30-35k.
> I just received a new arms license & was looking around for a cheap car carry weapon.


Buy baretta 9 mm local clone worth 50 to 60k.....mark my words you will have good buddy with you....Multan Road Haji Shafi brothers.....






Something like that but remember use only imported ammo.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Maarkhoor said:


> Buy baretta 9 mm local clone worth 50 to 60k.....mark my words you will have good buddy with you....Multan Road Haji Shafi brothers.....


Bro id never buy a local clone.

Is say behtar hai buy DSA. @Foxtrot Alpha suggested me DSAs trushot and nine.

Trushot









Nine












I saw this baby too:







Hopefully next month, I’ll be paying them a visit at their main office in Peshwar.



Maarkhoor said:


> Buy baretta 9 mm local clone worth 50 to 60k.....mark my words you will have good buddy with you....Multan Road Haji Shafi brothers.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Something like that but remember use only imported ammo.


I have a beretta and a S&W MP. But I usually carry my old Makarov which im frankly not too happy with.

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## hussain0216

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Hopefully next month, I’ll be paying them a visit at their main office in Peshwar.



if it's not too much bother, it will be interesting to hear what you think of the company, it's products etc

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## DESERT FIGHTER

hussain0216 said:


> if it's not too much bother, it will be interesting to hear what you think of the company, it's products etc


Ive heard good things so far.



hussain0216 said:


> if it's not too much bother, it will be interesting to hear what you think of the company, it's products etc


They have modern CNC machines and use proper metal rather than scrap.

And they are producing A grade stuff which they sell to the Military.


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## Kabotar

DESERT FIGHTER said:


> Bro id never buy a local clone.
> 
> Is say behtar hai buy DSA. @Foxtrot Alpha suggested me DSAs trushot and nine.
> 
> Trushot
> 
> View attachment 593191
> View attachment 593192
> 
> 
> Nine
> 
> View attachment 593193
> 
> 
> View attachment 593194
> 
> 
> 
> I saw this baby too:
> 
> View attachment 593195
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully next month, I’ll be paying them a visit at their main office in Peshwar.
> 
> 
> I have a beretta and a S&W MP. But I usually carry my old Makarov which im frankly not too happy with.



Whats the price of nine?


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## CodeforFood

Audio said:


> Yoyo, might as well ask here. Any opinions on SIG P239?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


discontinued...
consider p365 more ammo and smaller too. pretty decent handling



MilSpec said:


> Well if that's your application, then pick up a IWI Jericho/ CZ75 steel full frame.


emm not p01 instead??


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## Mithridates

lol why i never saw this thread before, i suddenly feel alone because it seems like i'm the only one here that has no sidearm.


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## SW187

Is Keltec PMR30 or FN Five Seven available for sale in Pakistan?
If available, please recommend a dealer, thank you!


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## CodeforFood

*Sig p365:*
My choice for carry pistol ( I carry with a 12 + 1)






The one in the image is with True precision match grade barrel(pardon the color coating on it  ) gives it extra oomph (accuracy and muzzle velocity as it add 3/4 inch to the barrel).

Adding this barrel does not compromise concealability.

If anyone had a chance to shoot it's nearest comparison (*Springfield hellcat*). I had a chance to shoot and it was not as pleasant as this little wonder. This is a very accurate gun and considering it's size, it is very soft shooting gun.

Anything late 2019 onward have all the kinks worked out on it so really for people who can buy it, i highly recommend.

Regards


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