# Turkish Navy and PM to accompany more aid ships to Gaza



## nawazshahzad

Turkey has threatened Israel with unprecedented action after Israeli forces attacked an aid vessel, killing 10 peace activists headed to Gaza. A shocked world has responded with outrage. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel and warned of unprecedented and incalculable reprisals.

Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences. Israel has sounded an alert throughout the country fearing rocket attacks by Hezbollah in Lebanon.

The Arab League has called an urgent meeting on Tuesday to decide on a common response. Egypt is under pressure to end the blockade of Gaza while Greece has cancelled a military exercise with Isreal. The world is waiting for the response from Washington, how will President Obama react to the provocation from Americas closest ally. (With inputs from Agencies) *Source: Pakistan Ideology*

Nawaz

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## Quaid-i-Azam

Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert - World - ibnlive


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## Quaid-i-Azam

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com


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## Quaid-i-Azam

.,.....................


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## Bhim

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> Turkey threatens action; Israel on alert - World - ibnlive



Welcome WWIII


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## zagahaga

and we are ready

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## Hyde

Bhim said:


> Welcome WWIII





Bismillah karo - we are already suffering from everywhere - there can't be any worse than that

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## Cheetah786

> The Arab League has called an urgent meeting on Tuesday to decide on a common response.



I guess Israel must have given their pets permission to go ahead have a party drink and pretend to care.



> Egypt is under pressure to end the blockade of Gaza.



LOL yeah that will happen.

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## AKINCI

Zaki said:


> Bismillah karo - we are already suffering from everywhere - there can't be any worse than that



Don't worry brothers Turkey can't do anything alone. If only we retake to Egypt from zionist hands, even this will be wonderful.

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## Kompromat

Its time for the regime change in Egypt

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## Chappal Chor

As always we are neutral for WWIII. If Pakistan wants to join it  they can we promise we will not attack........


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## Quaid-i-Azam

^^^we are still going to nuke India.

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## Chappal Chor

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> ^^^we are still going to nuke India.



self delete


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## Novice09

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> ^^^we are still going to nuke India.



Did you got permission / donation from  to do that


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## Chanakyaa

Bhai quaed e azam, SUICIDE k aur b tarike hai.

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## Stealth

Daily marnay say behtar hey banda eek baar maray! let start CALL OF DUTY 8 MODERN WARFARE |WORLD WAR 3|

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## Spitfighter

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> ^^^we are still going to nuke India.





Yeah, we're very afraid 

Reality check...

DAWN.COM | Business | Pak Rupee traded at record low of 85.34 against dollar

BBC News - Indian economy sees 'strong' growth

India and Pakistan have hordes of impoverished people while Israel and Turkey are developed nations. We need to think of ways to work together so we can develop into respectable nations. Don't worry about fighting someone else's war. I think we have enough on our hands right now.

Jinnah would've smacked you silly for saying something that ridiculous, bada aaya nuke chalane.

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## Quaid-i-Azam

Spitfighter said:


> Yeah, we're very afraid
> 
> Reality check...
> 
> DAWN.COM | Business | Pak Rupee traded at record low of 85.34 against dollar
> 
> BBC News - Indian economy sees 'strong' growth
> 
> India and Pakistan have hordes of impoverished people while Israel and Turkey are developed nations. We need to think of ways to work together so we can develop into respectable nations. Don't worry about fighting someone else's war. I think we have enough on our hands right now.
> 
> Jinnah would've smacked you silly for saying something that ridiculous, bada aaya nuke chalane.



Ghandi would've smacked you silly for your country being the rape/aids/toiletless capital of the world.


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## Novice09

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> Ghandi would've smacked you silly for your country being the rape/aids/toiletless capital of the world.


Self delete


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## Kompromat

All right i am going to start reporting posts now , whoever wants to take a break from the forum can keep up trolling.


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## Chanakyaa

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> Ghandi would've smacked you silly for your country being the rape/aids/toiletless capital of the world.



And Yet This 'Indian Bad Land' Reaches the Moon while your place is 'free' from any such ailments still - is on lifeline of American Aid.

Please dont be silly. 
Your statement is applicable to Entire Asia as none are having the Infra like Europe.

The Indian economy just registered a 8.4&#37; growth .. while u r stuck in Toilets.

Think Broad. In case of War a Thesis on Indian Aids/Toilets wont help but $$$ will, and to match up Ur nation needs to counter the Blazing Fast Growing Indian Economy.

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## Nima

I can't ******* believe I'm saying this but go Turkie!!

wow I can't believe I just said that lol Israel is digging its own grave.


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## Spitfighter

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> Ghandi would've smacked you silly for your country being the rape/aids/toiletless capital of the world.



I'm talking about cooperating and here you are busy piling on the insults...

Simple question, don't you think we have enough to worry about? why get into someone else's mess?

They're developed nations, let them play they're games, we have bigger fish to fry.

You're right by the way, if Gandhi saw what India has turned into he would've never fought for our independence.

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## Spitfighter

XiNiX said:


> And Yet This 'Indian Bad Land' Reaches the Moon while your place is 'free' from any such ailments still - is on lifeline of American Aid.
> 
> Please dont be silly.
> Your statement is applicable to Entire Asia as none are having the Infra like Europe.
> 
> The Indian economy just registered a 8.4&#37; growth .. while u r stuck in Toilets.
> 
> Think Broad. In case of War a Thesis on Indian Aids/Toilets wont help but $$$ will, and to match up Ur nation needs to counter the Blazing Fast Growing Indian Economy.



Come on, the economy is one thing, I'm talking about corruption, insurgencies, illiteracy, social strife etc etc. We are at least 5 decades behind the developed world.

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## Chanakyaa

@spitfighter,

True.
But its economy that fuels in the money the GoI spends on the sectors u just mentioned.


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## Spitfighter

XiNiX said:


> @spitfighter,
> 
> True.
> But its economy that fuels in the money the GoI spends on the sectors u just mentioned.



The point is we have a long, long way to go and we aren't in a position to talk down to others. The rest of the world is pulling ahead while India and Pakistan are still locked in a never ending struggle. 

All I was trying to tell that guy was that there's no point getting into heated arguments over someone else's mess, we have ourselves to worry about rather than someone 1000's of miles away.

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## Jazzbot

i hope someone ban this F U C K I N G moron named Quid he is a big rascal.. using name of founder of Pakistan and abusing everyone uselessly.

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## jha

^^ you got it ..he is banned...


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## jha

*UN members, officials condemn Israeli raid on Gaza aid flotilla*

UNITED NATIONS: UN members and officials came out in strong condemnation of Israel's attack on a humanitarian flotilla headed to the Gaza strip, with its chief Ban-Ki-moon seeking a "full explanation" from the country. 

The Security Council also convened an emergency meeting on Sunday to discuss a draft resolution, to call for an international inquiry into the incident and compensation for those who had been killed. 

"I condemn this violence," said Secretary-General Ban. "It is vital that there is a full investigation to determine exactly how this bloodshed took place. I believe Israel must urgently provide a full explanation," he said. 

The operations by Israeli naval commandos killed 10 activists and injured dozens others, sparking a global outrage yesterday. 

Israel, in turn, accused the people on board the ship of having turned on its soldiers with knives and metal rods and said the defence personnel had acted in self defence. 

In individual statements, the 15 UNSC members issued remarks, almost all condemning the assault. 

Veto-wielding permanent members France, Russia and China called for the blockade of Gaza to be lifted and sought an independent inquiry into the bloody episode. 

"It is clearer than ever that Israel's restrictions on access to Gaza must be lifted in line with Security Council Resolution 1860. The current closure is unacceptable and counterproductive," British Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant said ahead of the emergency session called after the deadly attack. 

The United States, which is Israel's main ally, regretted the loss of life but did not condemn the attacks like most of the Muslim countries and European nations. It urged Israel to undertake a domestic inquiry. 

"The United States is deeply disturbed by the recent violence and regrets the tragic loss of life and injuries suffered among those involved in the incident last night aboard the Gaza-bound ships," said Alejandro Wolff, Deputy Permanent US Representative to the United Nations. 

While the Security Council discussed a draft statement to condemn the attack, top UN officials came out strongly against the incident. 

"I unequivocally condemn what appears to be disproportionate use of force, resulting in the killing and wounding of so many people attempting to bring much-needed aid to the people of Gaza, who have now been enduring a blockade for more than three years," said Navi Pillay, the UN human rights chief. 

Turkey, which introduced the statement in the Council, demanded that Israel apologise for the act. 

"This is a black day for humanity," said Ahmet Davutoglu, the Turkish foreign minister. 

"The distance between terrorists and state has been blurred," Davutoglu said. 

Facing mounting international criticism, Israel stated that the convoy was not a humanitarian mission but its main objective was to push past the Gaza blockade. 

"Although portrayed in the media as a humanitarian mission delivering aid to Gaza, this flotilla was (not) a humanitarian mission," said Dan Carmon, deputy head of Israel's mission to the UN. 

"What kind of peace activists use knives, clubs and other weapons to attack soldiers who board a ship in accordance with international law?" he added.

UN members, officials condemn Israeli raid on Gaza aid flotilla - Middle East - World - The Times of India


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## pandamonkey

has the indian goverment condemded the attacks????????


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## Icarus

Novice09 said:


> Did you got permission / donation from  to do that



Did you get permission from U.S/ Russia/ Israel to stay neutral ?


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## hal-fgfa

Kakgeta said:


> Did you get permission from U.S/ Russia/ Israel to stay neutral ?



we dont need any donation or any free weapon so that we need permission ... 

but surely you get donation from USA so u need not india


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## forcetrip

Spitfighter said:


> Come on, the economy is one thing, I'm talking about corruption, insurgencies, illiteracy, social strife etc etc. We are at least 5 decades behind the developed world.



So what if we are 5 decads behind .. We would rather destroy things than build anything. Who cares about our children.. they will be fine just like us on IMF loans for the rest of their lives.. The important thing is that we will save our religion which we do not know what it is .. but we know its there so I will save it from my imaginary enemies.. This world is temporary, not like I will die in a maximum of 80 years and find out that my childrens children are slaving themselves and probably have forgotten the religion that I was fighting for because we had our head in the wrong end. How much more can you not know religion when on the pretext of defending people you are condoning killing ordinary citizens. Our religion is suffering massive blows Ok let the video games begin .. start the nukes!!


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## Tiger Prowling

Turkey needs to take actual action's not diplomatic resolution's ending up garbage.

Turkey must send another fotela with navy escort, than we will see how many commando's israel send.

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## gambit

Tiger Prowling said:


> Turkey needs to take actual action's not diplomatic resolution's ending up garbage.
> 
> Turkey must send another fotela with navy escort, than we will see how many commando's israel send.


Turkey was not responsible for the first group to start. Just because the ship was flying the Turkish flag that does not mean the trip was sanctioned by the Turkish government. May be it was but do provide an official Turkish government source saying so. If Turkey sends its navy with the intention of violating Israeli territorial waters, that would constitute an act of war.


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## PakistaniWarrior

gambit said:


> Turkey was not responsible for the first group to start. Just because the ship was flying the Turkish flag that does not mean the trip was sanctioned by the Turkish government. May be it was but do provide an official Turkish government source saying so. If Turkey sends its navy with the *intention of violating Israeli territorial waters*, that would constitute an act of war.



you mean disputed waters.

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## AliFarooq

hal-fgfa said:


> we dont need any donation or any free weapon so that we need permission ...
> 
> but surely you get donation from USA so u need not india



ur acting as if india never gets donation or loans from imf??

I*ndia&#8217;s External Debt Situation: 2009*

India&#8217;s external debt, as of March 2009, was US$229.9 billion (22.0 &#37; of GDP), recording an increase of US$5.3 billion or 2.4 % over 2008 mainly due to the increase in trade credits. According to an international comparison of external debt of the twenty most indebted countries, India was the fifth most indebted country in 2007. By way of composition of external debt, the share of commercial borrowings was the highest at 27.3% in March 2009, followed by short-term debt (21.5%), NRI
deposits (18.1%t) and multilateral debt (17.%).

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## gambit

PakistaniWarrior said:


> you mean disputed waters.


Say that it is. Disputed territories implies competition for long term controls, responsibilities and development. Will Turkey be vying for controls of these 'disputed waters'?


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## Abu Basit

gambit said:


> Turkey was not responsible for the first group to start. Just because the ship was flying the Turkish flag that does not mean the trip was sanctioned by the Turkish government. May be it was but do provide an official Turkish government source saying so. If Turkey sends its navy with the intention of violating Israeli territorial waters, that would constitute an act of war.



Why am i not surprised.
the terrorist state of America is always their to cover up the state terrorism of Israel. I have no doubts in my mind that whatever Israel does has full support from American terrorists.


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## gambit

Abu Basit said:


> Why am i not surprised.
> the terrorist state of America is always their to cover up the state terrorism of Israel. I have no doubts in my mind that whatever Israel does has full support from American terrorists.


Why are you avoiding the legitimate questions on what Turkey should do, can do and/or will do?


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## PakistaniWarrior

Abu Basit said:


> Why am i not surprised.
> the *terrorist state of America* is always their to cover up the state terrorism of Israel. I have no doubts in my mind that whatever Israel does has full support from American terrorists.



Quit being stupid and stop posting these types of things. 

Without U.S.A. Pakistan would be nothing.

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## PakistaniWarrior

gambit said:


> Why are you avoiding the legitimate questions on what Turkey should do, can do and/or will do?



If Turkey does retaliate militarily what can Israel do? 

Turkey is a NATO ally.


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## SXNJ

The whole world is watching how Turkey will retaliate Israel for this shocking massacre, go go Turkey! It's time to punish Israel

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## tinguzzz

PakistaniWarrior said:


> Quit being stupid and stop posting these types of things.
> 
> Without U.S.A. Pakistan would be nothing.



and china...


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## gambit

PakistaniWarrior said:


> If Turkey does retaliate militarily what can Israel do?
> 
> Turkey is a NATO ally.


Turkey will do nothing militarily since Turkey was not a sponsor of the aid group. The Israeli assault on the ship did not constitute an attack on Turkey.


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## Spring Onion

Bhim said:


> Welcome WWIII



Thanks to Terrorist State of Israel and its Terrorist ally countries.

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## PakistaniWarrior

tinguzzz said:


> and china...



True.

And 

Barring the dispute over our nuclear technologies, U.S.A. has stood by Pakistan since 47.

We will be self-sufficient eventually, but we are going to need alot of help till then. Pakistan is literally building itself up from dirt and it has little natural resources.

And why are you going to give me a thanks and then take it away? you preparing for war?


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## fawwaxs

Bhim said:


> Welcome WWIII



*We are already in the 3rd world war. It is against Muslims and it is being fought at several places. *


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## Abu Basit

PakistaniWarrior said:


> Quit being stupid and stop posting these types of things.
> 
> Without U.S.A. Pakistan would be nothing.



mind your language, You can fill the forum with your pro- terrorist state of America views, i have no problems. Don't feed me , i'm entitled to my views.


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## Skeptic

pandamonkey said:


> has the indian goverment condemded the attacks????????



In New Delhi, the Ministry of External Affairs said India deplores the tragic loss of life and the reports of killings and injuries to people on the boats carrying supplies for Gaza. 


It added, there can be no justification for such indiscriminate use of force, which we condemn... It is our firm conviction that lasting peace and security in the region can be achieved only through peaceful dialogue and not through use of force.

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## gambit

SXNJ said:


> The whole world is watching how Turkey will retaliate Israel for this shocking massacre, go go Turkey! It's time to punish Israel


Turkey will kill a few trees and spend some Internet bandwidths in 'strongly condemning' Israel. No more. But of course...I could be wrong...

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## afriend

Cant we ever solve this israel palestine problem. Can't we consider present boundries as the final one and recogoinse israel and move ahead?

---------- Post added at 06:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 AM ----------




fawwaxs said:


> *We are already in the 3rd world war. It is against Muslims and it is being fought at several places. *



oye yaar.. who is fighting against muslims do you consider osama mullah omer and other talibanis as muslims?


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Turkey was not responsible for the first group to start. Just because the ship was flying the Turkish flag that does not mean the trip was sanctioned by the Turkish government. May be it was but do provide an official Turkish government source saying so. If Turkey sends its navy with the intention of violating Israeli territorial waters, that would constitute an act of war.



So as per your logic the jews can attack and kill any one at will, shame on you. But you know what this dont come to me as a surprise at all. You have defended the shameful actions of the jews on more then one occasions on this forum. Whether the trip was sanctioned by the Gov or not, the ship was carrying a Turkish flag, under license from the Turkish authorities, and had Turkish and many other civilians on the ship. And was attacked in the international waters, and Turkish and some other countries nationals were murdered in cold blood. And that is something that your kookoo stories and attempts at cover ups wont change.

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## Abu Basit

gambit said:


> Why are you avoiding the legitimate questions on what Turkey should do, can do and/or will do?



do Terrorist states of America & Israel believe in any legitimacy, No they don't, Who authorized terrorist state of america to attack Iraq?, so lets not talk abt it. 

The champion of anti-terrorism i.e American terrorists are themselves involved in terrorism by supporting the ****** acts of israeli terrorists.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> *So as per your logic the jews can attack and kill any one at will*, shame on you. But you know what this dont come to me as a surprise at all. You have defended the shameful actions of the jews on more then one occasions on this forum. Whether the trip was sanctioned by the Gov or not, the ship was carrying a Turkish flag, under license from the Turkish authorities, and had Turkish and many other civilians on the ship. And was attacked in the international waters, and Turkish and some other countries nationals were murdered in cold blood. And that is something that your kookoo stories and attempts at cover ups wont change.


It is only your stretching to absurd level of the logical thought process that you would come up with that interpretation.

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## Spring Onion

Chappal Chor said:


> Terrorist state of Israel
> Terrorist state of India
> Terrorist state of US
> Terrorist state of Europe
> Middle easterns are puppets......
> 
> 
> Oh god devil has taken over the world and only innocent pakistan is left innocent as the last hope of humanity........
> 
> Oh sorry not humans being human is being sub standard. last of hope of Islam




Stay on topic and dont try to derail the thread just because you love the attack by Israel.


Read my reply and understand the context in which it was posted

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## afriend

There might be any issues in it. May be they where in israel waters.. or may be the activitis turned violent agains the soliders..!! May be that led to the interception into such a violent one. Other wise i dont see any reason for israelis to simply go there and fire at unarmed people...


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## Aslan

afriend said:


> Cant we ever solve this israel palestine problem. Can't we consider present boundries as the final one and recogoinse israel and move ahead?




The Arab league and the whole of OIC have accepted the resolution by the Saudis where it says that if the jews move back to the 1967 border with full independence to the Palestinians, which I believe is a huge compromise. They will accept the Israeli state. Which has so far been resisted by the jews. They are not only not doing it but also are building the illegal settlements in the west bank which are considered illegal under international law. So as far as the racist, apartheid attitude of the jews will not change the status co will remain.

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## PakistaniWarrior

Look how much constant international attention/support the Palestinians get when they are being brutalized by the Israelis.

Nothing on this scale has ever happened for the Kashmiris and the atrocities they suffer from the hands of the Indians. Its evident nobody gives a damn about them.


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## gambit

Abu Basit said:


> do Terrorist states of America & Israel believe in any legitimacy, No they don't, Who authorized terrorist state of america to attack Iraq?, so lets not talk abt it.


The words 'legitimate questions' mean questions that are relevant to the actions that Turkey could take on behalf of itself. Sheeessshhh...


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## Spring Onion

gambit said:


> Turkey will kill a few trees and spend some Internet bandwidths in 'strongly condemning' Israel. No more. But of course...I could be wrong...



Direct military action will have some grave implication specially US, and other countries on the side of Israel, Egypt zionist regime supporting Israel, Jodan is also compromised. Saudi rulers are pathetic they cant even breath without US permission.

So i dont think so any direct action can be taken in haste BUT its time Some more countries should join Turkey. Iran, Pakistan and some more we can have an alliance for future.

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## Aslan

gambit said:


> It is only your stretching to absurd level of the logical thought process that you would come up with that interpretation.



Or may be you need to get your glasses checked for a new number where you can see properly, change the batteries on your hearing aid. And also get your brain dry cleaned so that the rust could come off of it so that you could hear, see, and observe that what the hell is going on. And not come up with ridiculous counter arguments such as above. I have written so many things and all you had seen was the first line.

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## afriend

khalidali said:


> The Arab league and the whole of OIC have accepted the resolution by the Saudis where it says that if the jews move back to the 1967 border with full independence to the Palestinians, which I believe is a huge compromise. They will accept the Israeli state. Which has so far been resisted by the jews. They are not only not doing it but also are building the illegal settlements in the west bank which are considered illegal under international law. So as far as the racist, apartheid attitude of the jews will not change the status co will remain.



Then what is the logic behind israel not doing that? I mean have they been ready any time to discuss the logic.? What are the reasons they are giving? 

And i just show the map of isreale and palistine over the eyars. pretty shocking though. But even if palestine is going to accept the 1967 borders yes ofcourse that will still be a huge sacrifice. but yes surely it would be better for their future generation and peace.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> The Arab league and the whole of OIC have accepted the resolution by the Saudis where it says that if the jews move back to the 1967 border with full independence to the Palestinians, which I believe is a huge compromise. They will accept the Israeli state. Which has so far been resisted by the jews. They are not only not doing it but also are building the illegal settlements in the west bank which are considered illegal under international law. So as far as the racist, apartheid attitude of the jews will not change the status co will remain.


It is not only borders but also security. Every state has the right to demand secure borders from its neighbors. The question here is *WHO* is the guarantor of the border between Israel and this Palestinian state? Between Israel and Egypt we have responsible governments capable of enforcing their sides of border agreements. Like how the US and Canada are responsible governments capable of enforcing their respective laws. When the world sees Hamas and Hezbollah fighters went on a blood feud against each other there is no confidence that a responsible Palestinian government is in power.


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## Thomas

nawazshahzad said:


> Turkey has threatened Israel with unprecedented action after Israeli forces attacked an aid vessel, killing 10 peace activists headed to Gaza. A shocked world has responded with outrage. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel and warned of unprecedented and incalculable reprisals.
> 
> Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences. Israel has sounded an alert throughout the country fearing rocket attacks by Hezbollah in Lebanon.
> 
> The Arab League has called an urgent meeting on Tuesday to decide on a common response. Egypt is under pressure to end the blockade of Gaza while Greece has cancelled a military exercise with Isreal. The world is waiting for the response from Washington, how will President Obama react to the provocation from Americas closest ally. (With inputs from Agencies) *Source: Pakistan Ideology*
> 
> Nawaz




They may threaten it for now becuase emotions are running high. But in the end I highly doubt Turkey will send a warship into Israels territorial waters. If they did Israel would have a right to attack it.


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## mjnaushad

Jana said:


> Direct military action will have some grave implication specially US, and other countries on the side of Israel, Egypt zionist regime supporting Israel, Jodan is also compromised. Saudi rulers are pathetic they cant even breath without US permission.
> 
> So i dont think so any direct action can be taken in haste BUT its time Some more countries should join Turkey. Iran, *Pakistan* and some more we can have an alliance for future.



I agree on saudis. But you said Pakistan should join Turkey. Do you really think our leaders have this courage. I am not talking about the people. But our leaders are no less than saudis when it comes to being pathetic..

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## Aslan

afriend said:


> There might be any issues in it. May be they where in israel waters.. or may be the activitis turned violent agains the soliders..!! May be that led to the interception into such a violent one. Other wise



My dear friend, pleasae wake up from the slumber and look at what had happen. Countless reports have come in that claimed the ship was in the international waters. The protesters were armed with stick, yes they beat some pews. But their ship was attacked by the pews in the international waters, why is this information flying over every ones head. And this line; * i dont see any reason for israelis to simply go there and fire at unarmed people...* May be you missed the stories of pewish war crimes completely. Google can help.


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## gambit

Jana said:


> Direct military action will have some grave implication specially US, and other countries on the side of Israel, Egypt zionist regime supporting Israel, Jodan is also compromised. Saudi rulers are pathetic they cant even breath without US permission.
> 
> So i dont think so any direct action can be taken in haste BUT its time Some more countries should join Turkey. Iran, Pakistan and some more we can have *an alliance for future*.


Am certain a lot of prayers would not hurt the dream.

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## Aslan

gambit said:


> It is not only borders but also security. Every state has the right to demand secure borders from its neighbors. The question here is *WHO* is the guarantor of the border between Israel and this Palestinian state? Between Israel and Egypt we have responsible governments capable of enforcing their sides of border agreements. Like how the US and Canada are responsible governments capable of enforcing their respective laws. When the world sees Hamas and Hezbollah fighters went on a blood feud against each other there is no confidence that a responsible Palestinian government is in power.


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## apophenia

gambit said:


> Turkey was not responsible for the first group to start. Just because the ship was flying the Turkish flag that does not mean the trip was sanctioned by the Turkish government. May be it was but do provide an official Turkish government source saying so. If Turkey sends its navy with the intention of violating Israeli territorial waters, that would constitute an act of war.




Under article 5 of the NATO Charter, any attack on any member states of NATO is automatically regarded as an attack against all member states of NATO, requiring the member states to respond collectively against the aggressor, in defense of the member states who were attacked. its irreverent if the trip was sanctioned by Turkish government or not, two of those ships were flying the Turkish flag, so Turkey/NATO has every right to respond to the massacre that happened as Israel draws first blood. btw its not the first time Israeli forces attacked ships outside their territorial water.

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## PakistaniWarrior

Jana said:


> Direct military action will have some grave implication specially US, and other countries on the side of Israel, Egypt zionist regime supporting Israel, Jodan is also compromised. Saudi rulers are pathetic they cant even breath without US permission.
> 
> *So i dont think so any direct action can be taken in haste BUT its time Some more countries should join Turkey. Iran, Pakistan and some more we can have an alliance for future*.



Why? This is stupid.

They don't support us and will never do this to help save the Kashmiris from Indian atrocities and we should get on our knees to help them? 

What next is a Pak going advocate? We go to war with Israel and ruin ourself to save some Muslims who are not even our own people and let the Kashmiris suffer?

Some of you people are just a big JOKE.


----------



## Aslan

afriend said:


> Then what is the logic behind israel not doing that? I mean have they been ready any time to discuss the logic.? What are the reasons they are giving?
> 
> And i just show the map of isreale and palistine over the eyars. pretty shocking though. But even if palestine is going to accept the 1967 borders yes ofcourse that will still be a huge sacrifice. but yes surely it would be better for their future generation and peace.



The Palestinians on more then one occasions have accepted the proposal, and now is some one will mention the camp david accord where Yasir Arafat refused they should also know that the pews were offering them what they are doing now so no one would have accepted that and still wont. Even Hamas have said that they will recognize the pews as nation and respect the 1967 borders.


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## gambit

apophenia said:


> Under article 5 of the NATO Charter, any attack on any member states of NATO is automatically regarded as an attack against all member states of NATO, requiring the member states to respond collectively against the aggressor, in defense of the member states who were attacked. *its irreverent if the trip was sanctioned by Turkish government or not,* two of those ships were flying the Turkish flag, so Turkey/NATO has every right to respond to the massacre that happened as Israel draws first blood. btw its not the first time Israeli forces attacked ships outside their territorial water.


It is very relevant if this trip was sponsored by the Turkish government. If the trip was sponsored, it is a tacit declaration that whoever is in charge of the fleet was acting on behalf of the Turkish government. What you are implying is dangerous in that any member of any alliance can exploit the alliance's rules to drag the alliance into a war the other members may not believe to be justifiable.


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## xenia

i ve heard another ship is heading towards gaza strip n israel has said it would meet the same fate...seems the issue will be long than expected!!n indirectly israel is endorsing its the aggressor!

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## Thomas

apophenia said:


> Under article 5 of the NATO Charter, any attack on any member states of NATO is automatically regarded as an attack against all member states of NATO, requiring the member states to respond collectively against the aggressor, in defense of the member states who were attacked. its irreverent if the trip was sanctioned by Turkish government or not, two of those ships were flying the Turkish flag, so Turkey/NATO has every right to respond to the massacre that happened as Israel draws first blood. btw its not the first time Israeli forces attacked ships outside their territorial water.



Nato is not about to go to war over this nor is Turkey. A week from now this will finally sink in with all the fanboi's.


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## gambit

Thomas said:


> Nato is not about to go to war over this nor is Turkey. *A week from now this will finally sink in with all the fanboi's.*


Along with the possibility of another stunt like this one.


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## Aslan

Thomas said:


> Nato is not about to go to war over this nor is Turkey. A week from now this will finally sink in with all the fanboi's.



And yet the israelis will keep killing people and Americans will keep tapping their back. And the world will live in agony, and some day some one will get p!ssed over it and retaliate. And then the American press will sell the bs that the poor pews got attacked. Oh the poor pews.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> And yet the israelis will keep killing people and Americans will keep tapping their back. *And the world will live in agony*, and some day some one will get p!ssed over it and retaliate. And then the American press will sell the bs that the poor pews got attacked. Oh the poor pews.


The world is not living in agony......I have to applaud you for being a master of the hyperboles. Before you speak of 'the world', look at the ME first. Look at the region's apathy for decades as each despotic regime exploit the Palestinians for their own purposes. Even Arafat and his cronies stole who knows how much aid money destined for the Palestinians.

All eyes on the loot and Arafat's widow - Middle East Conflict - www.smh.com.au


> The man in the coma and the squabbling heirs, the bottle-blonde vamp and the missing billions. Yasser Arafat may have lived an epic life but his death this week played like the season finale of a Brazilian soap opera.
> 
> At the heart of the drama was Arafat's semi-estranged wife, Suha, who shot into the international limelight last week by taking charge of the comatose Palestinian leader as he lay in a French intensive care ward.
> 
> For several days *Suha Arafat, who lives in luxury in France* and had not visited her embattled husband for three years before his collapse two weeks ago, used her wifely prerogative to prevent her husband's political followers from visiting him or even learning his true condition.


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## Thomas

gambit said:


> Along with the possibility of another stunt like this one.



I'm sure there will be. with all the attention they gathered from this one. IF the ship was in international waters Israel did screw up. but no matter what the outcome would have been the same. Because Israel would have still boarded the ships and received the same welcome of steel bars and attempts to throw them over board. Once the ships entered Israels waters. I think they wanted an incident and that's why Al Jazeera was there. In the U.S. a policeman is justified to shoot a criminal if he comes at them with a deadly weapon. which a steel rod would be considered.

If I was one of the commando's and someone came at me with a steel rod or tried to throw me overboard I would have shot them as well. Though personally I would have aimed for the legs if possible.


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## gambit

Thomas said:


> I'm sure there will be. with all the attention they gathered from this one. IF the ship *was in international waters Israel did screw up. but no matter what the outcome would have been the same.* Because Israel would have still boarded the ships and received the same welcome of steel bars and attempts to throw them over board. Once the ships entered Israels waters. I think they wanted an incident and that's why Al Jazeera was there. In the U.S. a policeman is justified to shoot a criminal if he comes at them with a deadly weapon. which a steel rod would be considered.
> 
> If I was one of the commando's and someone came at me with a steel rod or tried to throw me overboard I would have shot them as well. Though personally I would have aimed for the legs if possible.


My take is that if the ship was allowed such violation of Israeli territorial waters, Israel would have responded the same and the condemnation would have pointed out on focused on that it was a humanitarian mission. Being in international waters added very little fuel to the fire.


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## Abu Basit

gambit said:


> The words 'legitimate questions' mean questions that are relevant to the actions that Turkey could take on behalf of itself. Sheeessshhh...



What is relevant that Israeli mercenaries killed unarmed civilians and as usual American mercenaries supporting this act by remaining silent. and then the americans ask 'Why the world hate us'.

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## Comet

It looks stupid that people on board used rods in order to break the blockade and get to Gaza. There must be some sort of provocation(apart from stopping ship in international waters) from Israeli commandos before they received this treatment.

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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

> * I think they wanted an incident and that's why Al Jazeera was there*



this is beyond logical reasoning.BS.


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## gambit

Abu Basit said:


> What is relevant that Israeli mercenaries killed unarmed civilians and as usual American mercenaries supporting this act by remaining silent. and then the americans ask 'Why the world hate us'.


May be the US should do what the Arabs have been doing all this time regarding the Palestinians, that is to loudly condemn Israel but nothing more than that. After all, the oily ME despots do make a lot of noise about the plight of the Palestinians but it is the West that contribute the bulk of aid. So we should do something similar to Israel: Condemn Israel for this and that but nothing more. Hmmm...Am starting to feel the love already.


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> The world is not living in agony......I have to applaud you for being a master of the hyperboles. Before you speak of 'the world', look at the ME first. Look at the region's apathy for decades as each despotic regime exploit the Palestinians for their own purposes. Even Arafat and his cronies stole who knows how much aid money destined for the Palestinians.
> 
> All eyes on the loot and Arafat's widow - Middle East Conflict - www.smh.com.au




I am glad that you bought up this topic so where shall I start, lets see.

Lets start from the very first pure diplomatic gov of the ME, shall we. Do you know the answer to this question Mr. Gambit. You know what happen to that Gov and who did what to it. I am sure that you are not aware of it. The Gov was that of Iran, the then prime minister of Iran, a person who was democratically elected.* Mohammed Mossadegh* Guess what your CIA along with the British Overthrew him to strengthen the Shah because he wanted to nationalize the oil of his country for the betterment of his people. And he wanted to stop the un acceptable high profiting of the British companies from the Iranian oil. He wanted to end the inhumane treatment of his people by the brits, and what he gets a military que and he is gone comes in the shah with a brutal regime supported by the US, and a catalyst the Islamic revolution is put in place. 
Was it not Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam, and your country was so eager to work with their friend even sold them arms during the Iran Iraq war. Was Saddam not a dictator then. 
How about Hosne Mubarak, the guy who is stuck to the presidency like a leach, supported by and the friend of the Americans. Viva democrazy. Every single dictator in the ME is supported by your country because they lick the boots of the Americans. So what happens to the hues and cries of the freedom and democracy them, I will tell you what happens. If the countries ruling elite dont agree with your country then they get deposed under the magic of something, or imprisoned in Gaza like Hamas. Now what the Palestinian authority had done, nothing. Are they corrupt hell yeah. What are they supported by Well the good old USA. Some times its better to look at your history and your own countries dealing before opening your mouth. 

The reason that I gave you the above examples, of looting and corruption. Please do pay attention to who support these corrupt leaders when they come to power. And with the blessing of whom do they do all they want to. 

And Ps if you would like to bring into light the plight of my countries leadiers dont bother, I will tell you they are a bunch of pigs, corrupt to the core, and yes friends of the Americans. Thank you.

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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

gambit said:


> My take is that if the ship was allowed such violation of Israeli territorial waters, Israel would have responded the same and the condemnation would have pointed out on focused on that it was a humanitarian mission. Being in international waters added very little fuel to the fire.



yes, but it was indeed a humanitarian mission which went wrong due to Israel gone mad with power.. 
I wonder how the Jews were justified after they suffered the tragedy of holocaust,Time is the best teacher and there will be justice..

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## Brotherhood

BBC News - UN urges inquiry into Israel convoy raid


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## gambit

Thomas said:


> I think they wanted an incident and that's why Al Jazeera was there.


All the reason why this will be discarded soon. The ME despots and the UN knows this is a set-up. But the appropriate noise must be made.


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## Aslan

Thomas said:


> I'm sure there will be. with all the attention they gathered from this one. IF the ship was in international waters Israel did screw up. but no matter what the outcome would have been the same. Because Israel would have still boarded the ships and received the same welcome of steel bars and attempts to throw them over board. Once the ships entered Israels waters. I think they wanted an incident and that's why Al Jazeera was there. In the U.S. a policeman is justified to shoot a criminal if he comes at them with a deadly weapon. which a steel rod would be considered.
> 
> If I was one of the commando's and someone came at me with a steel rod or tried to throw me overboard I would have shot them as well. Though personally I would have aimed for the legs if possible.





gambit said:


> My take is that if the ship was allowed such violation of Israeli territorial waters, Israel would have responded the same and the condemnation would have pointed out on focused on that it was a humanitarian mission. Being in international waters added very little fuel to the fire.




You guys need to take a break from fox news.


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## Jigs

Diplomatically/Internationally everything is going Turkey's way with the U.N. now officially condemning Israel demanding the aid be taken to Gaza and the civilians returned. So there is no need for military involvement at this point. Of course we still need too look to Israel to honor these set remarks by the security council.

Might i add the blockade is the main issue to be pushed now imo.

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## Abu Basit

gambit said:


> May be the US should do what the Arabs have been doing all this time regarding the Palestinians, that is to loudly condemn Israel but nothing more than that. After all, the oily ME despots do make a lot of noise about the plight of the Palestinians but it is the West that contribute the bulk of aid. So we should do something similar to Israel: Condemn Israel for this and that but nothing more. Hmmm...Am starting to feel the love already.



these installed rulers don't represent the public opinion in Muslim countries. Once upon a time we had Shah of Iran then a revolution came and the american dog was thrown out of Iran. and the American mercenaries think that they can keep the status quo forever, wake-up , history will soon repeat itself


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## gambit

Jigs said:


> Diplomatically/Internationally everything is going Turkey's way with the U.N. now officially condemning Israel demanding the aid be taken to Gaza and the civilians returned. So there is no need for military involvement at this point. Of course we still need too look to Israel to honor these set remarks by the security council.


Once UN representatives takes over the aid supply, they will naturally do what Israel demanded the group do in the first place, allow assurance that no weapons are with the aid supply. Then when the aid supply reach the Palestinians, much of it will be taken and/or fought over by Hamas and Hezbollah and 'the world' will say/do nothing about that...


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## Thomas

khalidali said:


> You guys need to take a break from fox news.



I read news sources from all over the world. I would say the Wall Street Journal and BBC are my favorite sites to visit.


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## Aslan

Thomas said:


> I read news sources from all over the world. I would say the Wall Street Journal and BBC are my favorite sites to visit.



Well sir I am glad that you do! your comments presented otherwise. But still I was more disappointed in BBC yesterday the way they had presented the whole news story. Any ways


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## gambit

Abu Basit said:


> these installed rulers don't represent the public opinion in Muslim countries. Once upon a time we had Shah of Iran then a revolution came and the american dog was thrown out of Iran. and the American mercenaries think that they can keep the status quo forever, wake-up , history will soon repeat itself


Do you know how by bringing up the Iranian revolution you actually debunked your own excuse? If Iran can overthrow a US puppet, then why not the rest of the ME? Looky here...I have been to the ME many times. The 'muslim street' are satisfied with the current crop of rulers they have. These despots knows how to play rough when necessary, how to play nice and when to distract the muslim public. If the Iranians can do it, why not you?


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Once UN representatives takes over the aid supply, they will naturally do what Israel demanded the group do in the first place, allow assurance that no weapons are with the aid supply. Then when the aid supply reach the Palestinians, much of it will be taken and/or fought over by Hamas and Hezbollah and 'the world' will say/do nothing about that...



When did Hezbollah get into Gaza thats new.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

gambit said:


> The world is not living in agony......I have to applaud you for being a master of the hyperboles. Before you speak of 'the world', look at the ME first. Look at the region's apathy for decades as each despotic regime exploit the Palestinians for their own purposes. Even Arafat and his cronies stole who knows how much aid money destined for the Palestinians.
> 
> All eyes on the loot and Arafat's widow - Middle East Conflict - www.smh.com.au



What utter BS...
Sadistic that you come up with such a lame and pathetic approach to fend off the sentiments against Israeli reign of terror.

One can only have an idea of the depth of hypocrisy..

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## Jigs

gambit said:


> Once UN representatives takes over the aid supply, they will naturally do what Israel demanded the group do in the first place, allow assurance that no weapons are with the aid supply. Then when the aid supply reach the Palestinians, much of it will be taken and/or fought over by Hamas and Hezbollah and 'the world' will say/do nothing about that...



And that if it happens like you stated....is funny to you ?


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## Abu Basit

gambit said:


> Do you know how by bringing up the Iranian revolution you actually debunked your own excuse? If Iran can overthrow a US puppet, then why not the rest of the ME? Looky here...I have been to the ME many times. The 'muslim street' are satisfied with the current crop of rulers they have. These despots knows how to play rough when necessary, how to play nice and when to distract the muslim public. If the Iranians can do it, why not you?



it will happen all across the Muslim globe, just have some patience.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> When did Hezbollah get into Gaza thats new.


Then let me bring the news to you...

BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hezbollah wins hearts in Gaza


> Hezbollah wins hearts in Gaza
> By Lucy Williamson
> BBC News, Gaza City


That ain't Fox.


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## gambit

Jigs said:


> And that if it happens like you stated....is funny to you ?


It is funny but in a sad way. The ME had many chances of being a positive force to a peace between Israel and a Palestinian state. Instead, they *KNOWINGLY* allowed outsider like Iran, to whom Israel had no original grievance against, to run roughshod over the Palestinians for their own apocalyptic religious purposes.


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## Thomas

Jigs said:


> Diplomatically/Internationally everything is going Turkey's way with the U.N. now officially condemning Israel demanding the aid be taken to Gaza and the civilians returned. So there is no need for military involvement at this point. Of course we still need too look to Israel to honor these set remarks by the security council.
> 
> Might i add the blockade is the main issue to be pushed now imo.



I doubt the blockade will end until Hamas steps down. And allows full and free elections administered by the U.N. Which Hamas will not allow becuase of the chance they will be voted out. 

I think there is a greater chance of an Israeli v. Iranian/Hezbollah war happening first. which would completely sideline the Palestinians for some time to come.


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Then let me bring the news to you...
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hezbollah wins hearts in Gaza
> 
> That ain't Fox.




I serisously thought that you were a mush smarter person then that. You had mentioned this


> much of it will be taken and/or fought over by Hamas and Hezbollah


And then you give me an article that says that Hezbollah wins hearts in Gaza. 
Seriously do you have any thing that proves their physical presence there or you are going in circles chasing the tail.


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## Huda

*Turkish Air Force put on alert. Fighters move forward on base towards Israel, ALLAHU AKBAR!*


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## Jigs

huda said:


> *Turkish Air Force put on alert. Fighters move forward on base towards Israel, ALLAHU AKBAR!*



Source ? Plz


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## Icarus

hal-fgfa said:


> we dont need any donation or any free weapon so that we need permission ...
> 
> but surely you get donation from USA so u need not india



We don't get any free weapons either buddy, it's aid for people who have been displaced due to operations against the terrorists, and India does not need any foreign assistance ? Then would you care to explain why India has a debt of $242.8 Billion dollars to pay off ?

The Hindu Business Line : India's external debt rises by 8.1% at Sept-end


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## Thomas

Jigs said:


> Source ? Plz



his source is himself or some blog. there is nothing on any of the news wires.


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## Abu Basit

khalidali said:


> Seriously do you have any thing that proves their physical presence there or you are going in circles chasing the tail.



don't you remember the story of WMD in Iraq by american mercenaries


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## Huda

Thomas said:


> his source is himself or some blog. there is nothing on any of the news wires.



Turkey Uses Israeli UAV For PKK Strikes - MiddleEastNewsline


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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

gambit said:


> My take is that if the ship was allowed such violation of Israeli territorial waters, Israel would have responded the same and the condemnation would have pointed out on focused on that it was a humanitarian mission. Being in international waters added very little fuel to the fire.



Though it can argued that Turkish vessels provoked Israeli action by running the blockade..but still there is no justification to IDF boarding a foreign flag vessel that too in *International waters *.

And even through territorial water *United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea* defines the *Right to Innocent Passage*.


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## Thomas

huda said:


> Turkey Uses Israeli UAV For PKK Strikes - MiddleEastNewsline



what does that have to do with The Turkish Air Force being put on alert for possible action against Israel? Which is what you insinuated.


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## Jigs

Huh ? That just says we bombed the PKK using a Heron.


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## apophenia

gambit said:


> It is very relevant if this trip was sponsored by the Turkish government. If the trip was sponsored, it is a tacit declaration that whoever is in charge of the fleet was acting on behalf of the Turkish government. What you are implying is dangerous in that any member of any alliance can exploit the alliance's rules to drag the alliance into a war the other members may not believe to be justifiable.



Was not implying anything other than this incident may lead Turkey into invoking its rights under Article 5 of the NATO Treaty. As this certainly seems to be a criminal act at a minimum by Israel and some might even consider it an act of war. But at the end of the day, the US / NATO/UN /Arab league has neither the political power nor the courage to take any substantive action to control Israeli behavior, no matter how stupid, brutal or provocative. Netanyahu knows this, that's the way it will remain.

Read somewhere that Turkish government informed about her ships coming along with others. So I guess the Turkish government did have some role in the buildup of this trip.


----------



## smali183

Chappal Chor said:


> As always we are neutral for WWIII. If Pakistan wants to join it  they can we promise we will not attack........



Baghal may churri Mun may RAM RAM


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## jha

@smali only if you understood the sarcasm..

BTW Turkey attacking ISRAEL will be a huge thing..lets see whether america supports ISRAEL or, not..?


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## gambit

apophenia said:


> Was not implying anything other than this incident *may lead Turkey into invoking its rights under Article 5 of the NATO Treaty.* As this certainly seems to be a criminal act at a minimum by Israel and some might even consider it an act of war. But at the end of the day, the US / NATO/UN /Arab league has neither the political power nor the courage to take any substantive action to control Israeli behavior, no matter how stupid, brutal or provocative. Netanyahu knows this, that's the way it will remain.
> 
> Read somewhere that Turkish government informed about her ships coming along with others. So I guess the Turkish government did have some role in the buildup of this trip.


Turkey may so invoke but NATO will not respond as everyone knows this was not an assault against Turkey or even Turkish interests by another nation-state. The welfare of the Palestinians is not a Turkish national interest. NATO was created to guard against existential threat, such as that posed by the Soviet Union. Israel does not pose such a threat.


----------



## gambit

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> Though it can argued that Turkish vessels provoked Israeli action by running the blockade..but still there is no justification to IDF boarding a foreign flag vessel that too in *International waters *.
> 
> And even through territorial water *United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea* defines the *Right to Innocent Passage*.


Right to peaceful passage can be nullified *IF* there is an intention to violate someone else's territory. Or in the case of Somali piracy, there is a clear intention of committing a crime.

BBC News - Nato warship destroys pirate boats in Somali Basin


> HMS Chatham's helicopter spotted a larger vessel towing the two attack boats in the Somali Basin, about 150 miles off Tanzania, on 14 May, it said.
> 
> After monitoring the vessels overnight, a Royal Marine team launched a "well-planned operation" at dawn, it said.
> 
> Ten Somalis surrendered and the two smaller boats were destroyed.
> 
> Commander Simon Huntington, commanding officer of Devonport-based HMS Chatham, said he was "extremely pleased" the warship had "successfully disrupted a pirate attack group operating in the Somali Basin and prevented them from mounting attacks against merchant shipping".


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Then let me bring the news to you...
> 
> BBC NEWS | Middle East | Hezbollah wins hearts in Gaza
> 
> That ain't Fox.





khalidali said:


> I serisously thought that you were a mush smarter person then that. You had mentioned this
> And then you give me an article that says that Hezbollah wins hearts in Gaza.
> Seriously do you have any thing that proves their physical presence there or you are going in circles chasing the tail.




Still waiting.


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## apophenia

gambit said:


> Turkey may so invoke but NATO will not respond as everyone knows* this was not an assault against Turkey or even Turkish interests by another nation-state*. The welfare of the Palestinians is not a Turkish national interest. NATO was created to guard against existential threat, such as that posed by the Soviet Union. Israel does not pose such a threat.



Turkish civilians were murdered so Turkish government is well within in rights to respond. Moreover I have stated my reason for knee jerk response from EU and the rest of the world on the incident.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> Still waiting.


Keyboard and brain not working...??? Or is using keywords searches beyond your ken?


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## gambit

apophenia said:


> Turkish civilians were murdered so Turkish government is well within in rights to respond. Moreover I have stated my reason for knee jerk response from EU and the rest of the world on the incident.


The word 'murder' is overused. Nevertheless, if Turkey want to respond militarily, I never said Turkey cannot. I said that no NATO member would consider this event an assault and a threat to Turkish national interests.


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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

gambit said:


> Right to peaceful passage can be nullified *IF* there is an intention to violate someone else's territory. Or in the case of Somali piracy, there is a clear intention of committing a crime.
> 
> BBC News - Nato warship destroys pirate boats in Somali Basin



*UNCLOS -Right To Innocent Passage*

"... ships of all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy the right of innocent passage through the territorial sea.

"Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.

"Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:

any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;
any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;
any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;
the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;
the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;
the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State;
any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;
any fishing activities;
the carrying out of research or survey activities;
any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;
any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage

*So what do you think which of the above clauses were being violated?*

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## hamza the lion

i think pakistan turky iran shoud start war agenst israel and FINSH ISRAELY IN THE WORLD THE AL R DEVIL


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## araz

Chappal Chor said:


> As always we are neutral for WWIII. If Pakistan wants to join it  they can we promise we will not attack........



You are banned.You do not exist and dont deserve a response.
Araz


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## apophenia

gambit said:


> I said that no NATO member would consider this event an assault and a threat to Turkish national interests.



Agreed the NATO reaction will be proportional and each member will decide what it will do. 



gambit said:


> Right to peaceful passage can be nullified *IF* there is an intention to violate someone else's territory.



Those ships didn't violate article 87 (freedom of the high seas) as they posed no direct threat to Israel but were bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza. Gaza which in itself is a situation against international law.Also if anyone read the United Nations Human Rights Charter they will note that its against all international law, even in a state of war, for any party to block humanitarian aide reaching civilians. So what was done was unjustifiable.

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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Keyboard and brain not working...??? Or is using keywords searches beyond your ken?



No every thing is fine here but apparently your crappy attempt to link Hezbollah and Hammas with the earlier presence in Gaza fell your face. And you ran with your tail between your legs like you always do when some one confronts your bs with an argument.


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## gambit

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> So what do you think which of the above clauses were being violated?


The question is whether or not the ship's passage conform to accepted intentions and meanings of 'innocent passage'...

UNCLOS - Part II


> Article 19. Meaning of innocent passage
> 
> *1. Passage is innocent so long as it is not prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State. Such passage shall take place in conformity with this Convention and with other rules of international law.*
> 
> 2. Passage of a foreign ship shall be considered to be prejudicial to the peace, good order or security of the coastal State if in the territorial sea it engages in any of the following activities:
> 
> (a) any threat or use of force against the sovereignty, territorial integrity or political independence of the coastal State, or in any other manner in violation of the principles of international law embodied in the Charter of the United Nations;
> 
> (b) any exercise or practice with weapons of any kind;
> 
> (c) any act aimed at collecting information to the prejudice of the defence or security of the coastal State;
> 
> (d) any act of propaganda aimed at affecting the defence or security of the coastal State;
> 
> (e) the launching, landing or taking on board of any aircraft;
> 
> (f) the launching, landing or taking on board of any military device;
> 
> (g) the loading or unloading of any commodity, currency or person contrary to the customs, fiscal, immigration or sanitary laws and regulations of the coastal State
> 
> (h) any act of wilful and serious pollution contrary to this Convention;
> 
> (i) any fishing activities
> 
> (j) the carrying out of research or survey activities
> 
> (k) any act aimed at interfering with any systems of communication or any other facilities or installations of the coastal State;
> 
> * (l) any other activity not having a direct bearing on passage.*


The ship's passage fully intends to violate Israel's territorial waters. To violate here means to enter without permission. I do not need to have my property actually trespassed in order to preemptively prevent a violation.


----------



## Dr.Evil

In concrete terms *what action is Turkey taking or contemplating *?

Or else are they like toothless paper tiger OIC.

All talk no show.


----------



## gambit

khalidali said:


> No every thing is fine here but apparently your crappy attempt to link Hezbollah and Hammas with the earlier presence in Gaza fell your face. And you ran with your tail between your legs like you always do when some one confronts your bs with an argument.


*YOU*...have no arguments. Hezbollah's presence in Gaza is known...

Defense Update News Analysis: Hamastan Gaza- to become a Wahhabist Outpost? - by David Eshel


> The most pressing goal in the Saudi Monarch's sights was Haniyehs personal guarantee to scale down in stages the *Iranian and Hezbollah presence in Gaza* and nullify Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's painstaking efforts, made last year to establish Tehran's strategic Mediterranian outpost in Gaza "Hamastan".


This is just one of the many sources available. This is the last time I will school you on this.


----------



## ameer219

gambit said:


> Right to peaceful passage can be nullified *IF* there is an intention to violate someone else's territory. Or in the case of Somali piracy, there is a clear intention of committing a crime.
> 
> BBC News - Nato warship destroys pirate boats in Somali Basin



Gambit, the source and statement you provided does not correlate with the situation faced in Gaza.

If you understand the situation in Somalia, you know that they the pirates were endangering the ships passing through. And even that, they were careful enough not to cause too much collateral damage, or loss of lives.

But if you compare with this case, its an aid ship, and it was heading for Gaza in international waters. Why did Israel had to send Commandos onto the ship, which meant no harm?

Furthermore, and of course its a natural reaction to attack someone if someone who lands on your boat . What did you expect, to garland them? 

If they wanted to stray away the ship from Gaza, they could have at least done it more appropriately by signaling them or warning them, not indiscriminately attacking the ship

So few questions here you have to answer if you want to justify an attacked on a ship.

Honestly, I respect you a lot Gambit, cos I have seen your debating skills and your experience, but justifying an attack on a Civilian ship, by comparing this situation with the one with Somalia, is in-despicable.


----------



## Aslan

gambit said:


> *YOU*...have no arguments. Hezbollah's presence in Gaza is known...
> 
> Defense Update News Analysis: Hamastan Gaza- to become a Wahhabist Outpost? - by David Eshel
> 
> This is just one of the many sources available. This is the last time I will school you on this.



Defense Update is an online defense magazine published in the United Kingdom by OHI Ltd.
Military Advisor: Col. David Eshel ex IDF 

Seriously I could do nothing but  at your stupidity. Carry on the good work.


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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

gambit said:


> The question is whether or not the ship's passage conform to accepted intentions and meanings of 'innocent passage'...
> 
> UNCLOS - Part II
> 
> The ship's passage fully intends to violate Israel's territorial waters. To violate here means to enter without permission. I do not need to have my property actually trespassed in order to preemptively prevent a violation.



I doubt that the "argument" that this was "breach Israel's sovereignity" will hold in a court of law..but then lets assume for the the sake argument, it holds true and Turkish ships did not have the Right to Passage.
But then Question arises..*Which law permits Israel to preempt a violation by committing a violation?? * 

You know you can not punish a person for crime he might have committed...but did not commit.


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## gambit

ameer219 said:


> Gambit, the source and statement you provided does not correlate with the situation faced in Gaza.
> 
> If you understand the situation in Somalia, you know that they the pirates were endangering the ships passing through. And even that, they were careful enough not to cause too much collateral damage, or loss of lives.


The argument was that merely being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, or 'right to visit'. That is not true. The nature and intention of the ship are factors in said immunity. If it was that simple: being in international waters, then no navy is justified in boarding any pirate ship until an act of piracy have been committed. 

UNCLOS - Part VII


> Article 105. Seizure of a pirate ship or aircraft
> 
> On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith.


One cannot board a 'pirate' ship unless one is reasonably certain that a ship is a pirate ship and therefore is fully justified in boarding said ship without the pirates committing a crime.



ameer219 said:


> But if you compare with this case, its an aid ship, and it was heading for Gaza in international waters. Why did Israel had to send Commandos onto the ship, which meant no harm?


It is a ship whose intention is to flaunt the laws of a State and that intention is known. Whether it is commandos or seaman recruits is irrelevant.



ameer219 said:


> Furthermore, and of course its a natural reaction to attack someone if someone who lands on your boat . What did you expect, to garland them?


No...To comply peacefully. But if the crew resort to physical assault, then the boarders are justified to respond in kind.



ameer219 said:


> If they wanted to stray away the ship from Gaza, they could have at least done it more appropriately by signaling them or warning them, not indiscriminately attacking the ship


The group already made its intention known: To violate someone's territory. So why would they all of a sudden become amenable to persuasion?



ameer219 said:


> So few questions here you have to answer if you want to justify an attacked on a ship.
> 
> Honestly, I respect you a lot Gambit, cos I have seen your debating skills and your experience, but justifying an attack on a Civilian ship, by comparing this situation with the one with Somalia, is in-despicable.


Do not care if you like me or not...


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> Defense Update is an online defense magazine published in the United Kingdom by OHI Ltd.
> Military Advisor: Col. David Eshel ex IDF
> 
> Seriously I could do nothing but  at your stupidity. Carry on the good work.


Absolutely you can laugh at me. I have been laughing at your stupidity all this time, boyo...


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## gambit

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> I doubt that the "argument" that this was "breach Israel's sovereignity" will hold in a court of law..but then lets assume for the the sake argument, it holds true and Turkish ships did not have the Right to Passage.
> But then Question arises..*Which law permits Israel to preempt a violation by committing a violation?? *
> 
> You know you can not punish a person for crime he might have committed...but did not commit.


Fine...The next time someone threatened your little sister with a knife or 'flash' himself at her, tell everyone it is nothing since no crime has been committed.


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Absolutely you can laugh at me. I have been laughing at your stupidity all this time, boyo...



So I will take this as you really were bsing and have no proof of your cr@p. Except for some delusion ex IDF Col propaganda pieces.


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Fine...The next time someone threatened your little sister with a knife or 'flash' himself at her, tell everyone it is nothing since no crime has been committed.



So you are comparing his poor little sister, with an IDF soldier.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> So I will take this as you really were bsing and have no proof of your cr@p. Except for some delusion ex IDF Col propaganda pieces.


http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/testimony/261.pdf


> In the West Bank and *Gaza Strip, Hezbollah has begun a systematic takeover* of Palestinian terrorist groups, co-opting secular nationalist terrorist groups and creating an elaborate smuggling network designed to arm its growing cadre.


Aawww...geezzz...You feel any smarter? I know I said that I would stop schooling you but I do have some pity for stupidity.


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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

gambit said:


> Fine...The next time someone threatened your little sister with a knife or 'flash' himself at her, tell everyone it is nothing since no crime has been committed.



Now now Gambit... don't go all *sentimental* on me..

*Neither was Israel's "little sister" being threatened nor was its sovereignty*??

This unprovoked aggression by Israel was clear violation of International law.

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## Aslan

gambit said:


> http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/testimony/261.pdf
> 
> Aawww...geezzz...You feel any smarter? I know I said that I would stop schooling you but I do have some pity for stupidity.



How cute another propaganda site. Can you try a little harder the next time, please now you have started to humiliate your self.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> How cute another propaganda site. Can you try a little harder the next time, please now you have started to humiliate your self.


Propaganda? The one who should be trying to harder is *YOU* to salvage any face left after being proved wrong. Hezbollah is in Gaza.


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## Evil Flare

If a Terrorists Force Storm at your place & You pick Knifes for your self defence , so according to GAMBIT " Your are a Terrorist "


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## gambit

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> *Neither was Israel's "little sister" being threatened nor was its sovereignty*??


Well...I certainly hope that neither Pakistan nor India nor Canada nor Australia nor China would go agog if some aircraft trespass his airspace.


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## Kompromat

Aamir Zia said:


> If a Terrorists Force Storm at your place & You pick Knifes for your self defence , so according to GAMBIT " Your are a Terrorist "



If a Terrorists Force Storm at your place & You pick Knifes for your self defence , so you are one of us according to GAMBIT " Terrorist "


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## Brotherhood

Black Blood said:


> If a Terrorists Force Storm at your place & You pick Knifes for your self defence , so according to GAMBIT " Terrorist "



Or according to a true viet-commie on a mission to create hate.


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Propaganda? The one who should be trying to harder is *YOU* to salvage any face left after being proved wrong. Hezbollah is in Gaza.




Dude seriously! its one thing to be stupid and another to be stubborn. But you have the traits of both. You are quoting me sites that make their living by spreading hate, and defaming any thing related to ME or Muslims to get their way and to misguide the opinion on the street. As I said try harder, and see if you can come up with some more bs like quoting a little girl to make a case for an IDf soldier.


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## gambit

Brotherhood said:


> Or according to a true viet-commie on a mission to create hate.


Must be referring to yourself as I am anti-commie...


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## Kompromat

Brotherhood said:


> Or according to a true viet-commie on a mission to create hate.



What is the difference


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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

gambit said:


> Well...I certainly hope that neither Pakistan nor India nor Canada nor Australia nor China would go agog if some aircraft trespass his airspace.



Amen..


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## gambit

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> Amen..


We can amend that to be ICBM instead of aircraft. If by virtue of being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, then no one has any right to shoot down another country's ICBM in flight outside of one's airspace. After all, it has not violated anyone's territorial airspace or impact anyone's soil.


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## Neither Right Nor Wrong

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> Amen..





gambit said:


> We can amend that to be ICBM instead of aircraft. If by virtue of being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, then no one has any right to shoot down another country's ICBM in flight outside of one's airspace. After all, it has not violated anyone's territorial airspace or impact anyone's soil.



ICBM is not *manned *!!

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## ameer219

gambit said:


> The argument was that merely being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, or 'right to visit'. That is not true. The nature and intention of the ship are factors in said immunity. If it was that simple: being in international waters, then no navy is justified in boarding any pirate ship until an act of piracy have been committed.
> 
> 
> 
> UNCLOS - Part VII
> 
> One cannot board a 'pirate' ship unless one is reasonably certain that a ship is a pirate ship and therefore is fully justified in boarding said ship without the pirates committing a crime.



How can you prove that Israel is reasonably sure its a pirate ship? It has gone through all border inspections before leaving for Israel, how can you prove it was carrying illegal or dangerous goods? And please, don't tell me its knives, or screwdriver




> It is a ship whose intention is to flaunt the laws of a State and that intention is known. Whether it is commandos or seaman recruits is irrelevant.



Is there a law on Israel that does not allow ship AIDS to pass send to Gaza?



> Israel allows no more than 15,000 Tons of supplies in whereas even the UN says that it is not even one fourth of the required supply to sustain any semblance of a normal life



Can you justify this?


> No...To comply peacefully. But if the crew resort to physical assault, then the boarders are justified to respond in kind.



So by your logic, invading another ship by using commandos without even know if its a pirate ship is justifiable, but responding by force from the pirate ship is not justifiable. Its like you come to my house to steal, but I am not allowed to retaliate.

So that means all the those ship that have been hijacked by Somalian pirates, who used force to restrain itself have all violated international laws. Wow, what logic



> The group already made its intention known: To violate someone's territory. So why would they all of a sudden become amenable to persuasion?





> "....stipulates that the threat or use of force against other states is unlawful, except in the case of self-desfense."



Humanitarian law

Is this a case of self defence on the ships? If not, why land on the ship? Why can't they be signaled or given a warning? 



> Do not care if you like me or not...



Neither do I care if you do not care.


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## All-Green

In modern times when the world preaches about collective responsibility and values of peace and justice, we here see a state which has been forcibly keeping a people under siege without letting in essential provisions to sustain life it self.
All the while most of the world deems it as a condemnable act, yet does nothing about it. Selective righteousness.

This was not a dangerous military operation in a real sense, on which harboured the survival of Israel.
The people were genuine aid workers and media people, not at all militants or trained men.

"This flotilla was anything but a humanitarian mission," Israel's deputy UN ambassador Daniel Carmon said.
He said the activists had used "knives, clubs and *other weapons*" to attack the soldiers who boarded the lead boat, the Mavi Marmara. 

Other weapons...must be bananas and apples, if he failed to mention it.
Knives and clubs???
To face trained men with overwhelming firepower, this is what the miscreants in the flotilla came up with?
It was anything but a humanitarian mission? 
What a statement...i would say it was painfully obvious from the "dangerous" weapons being used that it was just that...a humanitarian mission...
Even when defending their lives the people allegedly used only clubs and knives....what a pathetic state of affairs.
What sheer persistent nonsense which Israel comes up with to justify its absolutely disproportionate response to any and all actions carried out to help Palestinians...and the world still pretends to be upholding global values via the UN...a farce.

Since 2007, Gaza has been under siege.
Israel claims that it allows upto 15,000 Tonnes of supplies every week in the besieged area, whereas even the UN says that it is not even one fourth of the required supply to sustain any semblance of a normal life.

This policy of Israel will only create more hatred for Israel.
Maybe this suits Israel fine because they want to play the besieged card themselves and in turn manage to gain sympathy of the powers that helped create Israel in the first place.
Now Israel is no more surrounded by external hostile enemies as it was long time ago but still it is doing its utmost to crush Palestinians, literally.
The Siege of Gaza is the modern day rerun of the Jewish Holocaust of world war 2...the confinement, the limited supply of food coming in ...all reminds one of the start of the Holocaust...
We are supposed to learn so much from the barbarism that happened to Jews in world war 2, countless books, films etc. have solely dealt with the subject and deeply impacted the hearts and minds of the global audience throughout the century.

Denial of humanitarian aid to a non Israeli people is now considered Israeli states right within its own waters?
Does this not violate the most basic agenda of UN, clear agenda to ...the same agenda which global powers use as a stick to whip the bad boys and implement sanctions and even take military actions against.

I hope the USA changes its attitude towards this core issue.
The US should have sent a very strong message but it also shows only regret and hopes for a proper investigation, its another thing that whenever the UN security council decided to send a strong message to Israel or hold an inquiry, usually there was one country which was the only veto power barring the way...USA.
When USA itself has blocked many an investigative attempt into the actions of Israel, i see this only as another hypocrisy of USA to sound righteous despite being an accomplice in facilitating a sanction free environment for Israel by backing it up on every step of the way.

USA has to realize that if talks about justice and humanity then it cannot blindly support Israel while it does what it pleases, at least not anymore, not when Israel really has no external threat except what it will create if it continues its brutal tactics.
If USA has to blindly support Israel then it has to do it at a cost which will be the hatred of many in this world, who see this as a crime against humanity...the very humanity which USA usually seems to bring up in every military campaign it started in the last 2 decades.
Iraqis needed freedom from Saddam, Afghans needed freedom from Taliban...Palestinians need freedom from Israel as well...if only enough to get food and medicines!!!

I wish that President Obama declares that USA would step in and ensure that UN mandate is upheld under guard of his troops.
The purposed of US peacekeepers would be to assist UN and help the Palestinians in getting basic supplies and ensuring that the supplies being shipped in are not a threat to Israel but are non military items...unless ofcourse Israel treats healthy Palestinians as a threat to its security.
The world will really applaud such a stance taken by USA to help ease the suffering of the innocent without causing any threat to anyone.
It would be a very good remedy to improve the situation.

USA can win the hearts and minds of many countless people on earth by treating Israel Palestine conflict purely on merit, regardless of past allegiances.
The post world war 2 instability around Israel is practically non existent, Israel cannot keep on bulldozing Palestinians with such impunity in the name of survival...it has become far to strong to worry about survival and authorize any step that comes into its mind...it has to be made answerable to the world about what it is denying to the innocents.

I think Israel has done a very good job of lobbying itself in the western world, especially the USA. Many of the people associate Palestinians with militancy whereas Israel is supposed to be on the defense, the huge disparity between the Israeli military and Palestinian people ensures that Palestinians certainly cannot overrun Israel, still Israel is always seen on the defense.
There is an established pattern of painting Palestinians as militants who are after blood, without taking into account the fact that Palestinians are in fact under siege and Israel does not budge an inch from this imposing position which is tearing apart any remaining fabric of normal society in Palestine, what will the continued policy of land grabbing from the Palestinians and denial of basic humanitarian aid to the Palestinians lead to?
Will it not cause more hatred and venom to spread?
Will then this hatred not translate into violence, which will be called terrorism and be done with, whereas a state besieging a whole people and toying with their lives is just a regrettable incident.
What option does the average Palestinian have?

Those who have quickly started pointing out the Palestinian leadership as corrupt or inefficient are not looking at the bigger picture, this is a humanitarian crisis and is not about personal failings of leaders, do not just look at it from political angle.
Palestine is at Israel's mercy for even basic provisions of life and what a mercy it is!

Diverting the problem at hand by blaming Palestinians is a very shallow attempt to perhaps project oneself as self righteous instead of admitting the fact that Israel is right only because we (the people of this planet) cannot stop them from this continuous injustice of the highest order.

Such excuses have no real meaning when we see countless innocents isolated from the rest of the world and being denied basic assistance which the world is willing to provide...we are not asking Israel to supply the food...however it wants all those in Gaza to suffer and that is the true intent obvious from the unending siege of Gaza.

I condemn Israeli state for unleashing a similar policy of persecution which Hitler targeted the Jews with and was one of the main reasons that the state of Israel came into being
What lesson was learnt by the modern world here?
I hope the elders of Jews living in Israel see the similarity and prevail upon the state to stop this madness.

One of the main reasons for the creation of the UN was to ensure that such suffering does not happen in the modern world, failure take any action against the siege of Gaza really raises a question as to who will do anything about this humanitarian crisis...there is a limit beyond which even the sanest of men will resort to violence.
If conditions are made so desperate for the Palestinians then the reactions cannot be seen in isolation and judged as extremist or bloody actions not in the spirit of co existence.
Just because Israel is a strong nation, it does not mean that its atrocities be ignored and it not be reigned in, for the sake of all parties including itself.

The implications of this constant state of aggression towards all Palestinians shall be extremely serious, already much unrest in the world finds its roots in this conflict.
My fear is that it only gets worse, day by day...under watchful eyes.

I really do not want anyone to suffer here, however to drive the Palestinians to absolute desperation will evaporate any hope of Palestinians ever co existing with Israelis.
The hate will grow for Israel, it has gone far beyond the point where Israel projects its actions as desperate bid to survive...its policy borders or has already entered into a territory where it can be called a policy of state terrorism against a particular people to ensure they are either eliminated as a people or are made to run away from their homes.

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## RameeX Xaved

I think its the right time for Turkey, Iran and Pakistan to join hands against the zionists. Pakistan army should contact Turkey and Iran for any military assistance. PAF pilots are already there in Turkey. Any mobilization in the waters of Pakistan and Iran towards Israel will run chills in zionists hearts. 
One More role Pakistan can play is that in any war scenario, if Israel threatens to use its nuclear warheads against Turkey or Iran, Pakistan can convey a loud and clear message to Israeli authorities that any misadventure can lead to a complete destruction to the little piece of land the have got.


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## Brotherhood

Black Blood said:


> What is the difference



Oh well, buddy, its made a lot of difference, a so called American on PDF, and a viet-commie on ...............user name.... .....and if you want to join, ask gambit for a referral.

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## rameez ahmed

The Holy Prophet (SA) said"

"Surely you will fight the jews. and surely you will kill them. And on that day even the stones will speak to muslims that O Muslim !! There's a jew hiding Behind Me. So come and Kill Him'

(sahih Bukhari)


If We study the history of Jews you will Come to know that they are waiting for their MESSAIH (to be Sent by ALLAH to them) who will liberate the Israel for them and will make them rule the world. But the True MESSIAH is Hazrat ISA (AS) who will return on this world for Muslims . So their MESSIAH According To Holy Prophet (SA) is DAJJAL or the FALSE MESSIAH...

They are doing all this to gain power so that their FALSE MESSIAH may come and rule...

The Israelis started to come to the Holy Land (Jerusalem) in early 1900s.... Then they create the State of Israel in 1948 ..... Now they are making steps to rule the world .. they have completed almost 60% of their 3rd objective, and when they will achieve it , DAJJAL WILL EMERGE and will say that he is the MESSIAH.

US is the Biggest supporter of Israel and have given it great weapons so that it may rule the world as the SUPER POWER .. And undoubtedly now its a very big power and can deal with the Middle east alone now..

Brothers and sisters ask any Islamic Scholar who have studied the Signs of Emergence of Imam al Mahdi , Dajjal and Hazrat Isa (SA) in detail.. He will tell you that WE ARE LIVING IN THE AGE OF DAJJAL.....

If you don't agree with me search on net the Lectures of late Dr Israr Ahmed (may Allah bless his Soul) and Maulana Imran Hosein (he is Sunni)......

You can see the lecture on Dajjal by Sheikh Imran Hosein at the following link:


Abaut dajjal

Israel will now not stop the atrocities on the muslims... I expect that we are only few years away from a big war that Israel is going to wage on muslims (ALLAH knows that best) ... This conflict with Turkey may be the starting point..


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## Abu Basit

*Israel planning massive attack on Gaza: Ahmadinejad*
Updated at: 1312 PST, Tuesday, June 01, 2010

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Tuesday that Iran has precise information that Israel plans to launch a "massive attack" on Gaza in the wake of its deadly raid on an aid flotilla.

"We have precise information it has planned a massive attack against Gaza to make up for its past defeats," Ahmadinejad said in a public speech in the western Iranian city of Ilam that was broadcast live on state television.

"I warn you that if this time you commit a crime against any place, against Gaza, the storm of regional nations' fury will uproot you," he said.

"This time if you back the crimes of the Zionist regime, the anger of regional nations will not just be limited to the borders of Palestine, but will also put on trial you and those who are accomplices in the crime," he said to cheering crowds.

Ahmadinejad criticised Washington for adopting a "weak stance" against Israel for its deadly raid on the Gaza aid flotilla.

"The US government has adopted a very weak and biased position. Instead of condemning, it has spoken vaguely and sought to evade taking a stance," he said, while some European countries had adopted a "good" stand. 

Israel planning massive attack on Gaza: Ahmadinejad - GEO.tv


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## bc040400065

June 1, 2010

*Turkey demands Israel be punished over Gaza raid*

Philippe Naughton 


Turkey demanded today that Israel be punished for yesterdays bungled commando raid on a flotilla of ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip as international condemnation of the killings reached fever pitch. 

At least nine activists, four of them identified as Turks and the remaining five thought also to be Turkish, were killed in the pre-dawn raid in international waters, when Israeli commandos rapelled from helicopters onto the fleet of ships. 

Up to 40 Britons were among those detained and the Foreign and Commonwealth Office said that it was "urgently seeking access" to all of them. Foreign Office sources said, however, that many of those detained had refused to give their names to the Israelis, making it hard to give firm numbers of Britons involved. 

It was confirmed earlier that one Briton, Ahsan Shamruk, was injured in the attack and had received medical treatment. 


*The first activists to be released claimed today that the soldiers had beaten passengers and used electric shocks to subdue them*, but Israeli officials insisted that they had only opened fire after coming under attack from activists on the lead vessel, the Mavi Marmara. 

After 12 hours of negotiations that stretched into the early hours, the UN Security Council issued a statement demanding an impartial investigation of the deaths and condemning the acts that led to it. 

Thanks to blocking action from the Americans, Israels closest ally, the presidential statement was notably weaker, however, than that drafted by Turkey, the Palestinians and Arab states, which had called for condemnation in the strongest terms and an independent international inquiry. 

The Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who interrupted a trip to Chile after the killings, told MPs from his ruling Justice and Development Party that dry statements of condemnation were not enough and Turkey demanded results. 

The insolent, irresponsible and impudent attack by Israel, which went against law and trampled human honour underfoot, must definitely be punished, Mr Erdogan said. 

Nobody should test Turkeys patience. Turkeys enmity is as violent as its friendship is valuable. Losing Turkeys friendship is a cost all on its own. 

The pro-Palestinian groups which organised the flotilla said that they would send more ships with humanitarian supplies for the besieged Gaza Strip, but Israel warned it will halt any new bid to breach its blockade of the Hamas-run territory. 

The crisis has provided Britains coalition Government with its first foreign policy challenge. Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime Minister, called on Israel today to lift its unjustifiable and untenable blockade of the Gaza Strip. 

Whilst, of course, Israel has every right to defend itself and its citizens from any attack, it must now move towards lifting the blockade in Gaza as soon as possible, he said. 

The Liberal Democrat leaders comments echoed remarks by the Foreign Secretary, William Hague, who called on Israel yesterday to lift the blockade in line with UN Security Council resolutions. 

Downing Street said that David Cameron had spoken by telephone to Binyamin Netanyahu to deplore the heavy loss of life and to urge him to ensure there was no repeat of yesterdays events. 

There was further confirmation of the attacks from President Medvedev of Russia, who said that the loss of lives was absolutely unjustified, while the European Union President Herman Van Rompuy called the events inexplicable. 

Israel is still holding hundreds of activists detained in the raid but the first few deported said that the Israeli commandos had beaten passengers and used electric shocks during the assault. 

Nilufer Cetin, a Turkish activists who hid with her baby in the bathroom of her cabin aboard the Mavi Marmara, told reporters she believed there were 11 dead. 

The ship turned into a lake of blood, Mr Cetin told reporters in Istanbul after Israeli officials decided to deport her and her child. 

She said Israeli vessels harassed the flotilla for two hours on Sunday night and then returned at around 4am yesterday, firing warning shots and telling the ships to turn back. 

When the Mavi Marmara continued on its course the harassment turned into an attack. They used smoke bombs followed by gas canisters. They started to descend onto the ship with helicopters, she said, calling the clashes that then erupted extremely bad and brutal. 

I was one of the first victims to be released because I had a child, she told reporters, but they confiscated everything, our telephones, laptops are all gone. Her husband - the ships engineer - was still being held by Israeli authorities. 

Some 400 Turkish activists were on the six-ship flotilla, along with more than 30 Greeks and people of some 20 other nations including Germany, the United States and Russia. It had been trying to break the three-year blockade of Gaza imposed by Israel after the Hamas takeover. 

Suddenly from everywhere we saw inflatables coming at us, and within seconds fully equipped commandos came up on the boat, said Dimitris Gielalis who had been aboard the Sfendoni and was one of six Greek activists returned home this morning. 

They came up and used plastic bullets, we had beatings, we had electric shocks, any method we can think of, they used, he said. 

He said the boats captain was beaten for refusing to leave the wheel, and had sustained non-life-threatening injuries, while a cameraman filming the raid was hit with a rifle butt in the eye, he said. Of course we werent prepared for a situation of war. 

The returning Greeks said those still in custody were refusing to sign papers demanded by Israeli authorities. 

During their interrogation, many of them were badly beaten in front of us, said Aris Papadokostopoulos, who was aboard the Free Mediterranean traveling behind the Turkish ship and carrying mainly Greek and Swedish activists. 


Turkey demands Israel be &lsquo;punished&rsquo; over Gaza raid - Times Online

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## Spring Onion

So it means now suicide bombing will make its way into Israel too


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Turkey is a minion of USA, USA is a minion of Israel.

Turkey can do nothing!

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## Imran Khan

i think as cinopak thinking it was enugh time when they attak on boat TUAF can help even that time.


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## deckingraj

RameeX Xaved said:


> I think its the right time for Turkey, Iran and Pakistan to join hands against the zionists. Pakistan army should contact Turkey and Iran for any military assistance. PAF pilots are already there in Turkey. Any mobilization in the waters of Pakistan and Iran towards Israel will run chills in zionists hearts.
> One More role Pakistan can play is that in any war scenario, if Israel threatens to use its nuclear warheads against Turkey or Iran, Pakistan can convey a loud and clear message to Israeli authorities that any misadventure can lead to a complete destruction to the little piece of land the have got.



Not sure why you are so hell bent on military conflicts without understanding even basics of it??? understand we are from third world country and not a superpower...look at your economy first and tell me do you honestly think you guys can afford a war??? Isn't India on your eastern border and TTP on western(read in whole of Pak) enough???

As far as nukes are concerned don't forget there are unconfirmed but pretty true reports about this so called tiny land having around 200 of them which is much more than India and Pak combined...

So chill....As of now you seriously lack capability to militarily operate in middle-east..Better concentrate on your economy as a first priority then universal Muslim brotherhood...


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Imran Khan said:


> i think as cinopak thinking it was enugh time when they attak on boat TUAF can help even that time.



Israel should Thank USA, also quasi-ally Turkey neighbouring to her.


If Israel is neighbouring to China and invading any Chinese territory, China has no doubt to attack Israel and must win.

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## Kompromat

Neither Right Nor Wrong said:


> Amen..


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## Speeder 2

If Israel is boycotted internationally because of this, half of Indian's newest weaponary defence systems will be smoked. Just think its lastest navy missiles for its new stealthy frigate, Su-30MKI spareparts, the final nail on the already half-dead aryan MBT, etc, etc, etc, etc.    

BOYCOTT ISRAEL !!!!!


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## Speeder 2

gambit said:


> We can amend that to be ICBM instead of aircraft. If by virtue of being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, then no one has any right to shoot down another country's ICBM in flight outside of one's airspace. After all, it has not violated anyone's territorial airspace or impact anyone's soil.



You talk more desperate lately. Has any of your purple pump sparepart encountered a major malfunction, Saigon Giáp?

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## TrMhMt

Read Gideon Levy haaretz ... He already has admitted what the isaeli soldier have done? and how the israeli gov. has broken the laws !!! so israeli people stop lying and admit your humanity crime .....

By Gideon Levy

Like in "Mini-Israel," the park where there is everything, but smaller, Israel embarked yesterday on a mini Operation Cast Lead. Like its larger, losing predecessor, this operation had it all: the usual false claim that is was they who had started it - and not the landing of commandos from helicopters on a ship in open sea, away from Israeli territorial waters. There was the claim that the first act of violence came not from the soldiers, but the rioting activists on Mavi Marmara; that the blockade on Gaza is legal and that the flotilla to its shores is against the law - God knows which law.

Again came the claim of self defense, that "they lynched us" and that all the dead are on their side. Once more the use of violence and excessive and lethal force was in play and once more civilians wound up dead.
*

* Published 01:42 01.06.10
* Latest update 01:42 01.06.10

Operation Mini Cast Lead
By Gideon Levy

Like in "Mini-Israel," the park where there is everything, but smaller, Israel embarked yesterday on a mini Operation Cast Lead. Like its larger, losing predecessor, this operation had it all: the usual false claim that is was they who had started it - and not the landing of commandos from helicopters on a ship in open sea, away from Israeli territorial waters. There was the claim that the first act of violence came not from the soldiers, but the rioting activists on Mavi Marmara; that the blockade on Gaza is legal and that the flotilla to its shores is against the law - God knows which law.
One of the wounded activists is removed from an IDF helicopter and taken to Sheba Medical Center.

One of the wounded activists is removed from an IDF helicopter and taken to Sheba Medical Center.
Photo by: Tal Cohen

Again came the claim of self defense, that "they lynched us" and that all the dead are on their side. Once more the use of violence and excessive and lethal force was in play and once more civilians wound up dead.

This action also featured the pathetic focus on "public relations," as if there is something to explain, and again the sick question was asked: Why didn't the soldiers use more force.

Again Israel will pay a heavy diplomatic price, once which had not been considered ahead of time. Again, the Israeli propaganda machine has managed to convince only brainwashed Israelis, and once more no one asked the question: What was it for? Why were our soldiers thrown into this trap of pipes and ball bearings? What did we get out of it?
If Cast Lead was a turning point in the attitude of the world toward us, this operation is the second horror film of the apparently ongoing series. Israel proved yesterday that it learned nothing from the first movie.

Yesterday's fiasco could and should have been prevented. This flotilla should have been allowed to pass and the blockade should be brought to an end.

This should have happened a long time ago. In four years Hamas has not weakened and Gilad Shalit was not released. There was not even a sign of a gain.

And what have we instead? A country that is quickly becoming completely isolated. This is a place that turns away intellectuals, shoots peace activists, cuts off Gaza and now finds itself in an international blockade. Once more yesterday it seemed, and not for the first time, that Israel is increasingly breaking away from the mother ship, and losing touch with the world - which does not accept its actions and does not understand its motives.

Yesterday there was no one on the planet, not a newsman or analyst, except for its conscripted chorus, who could say a good word about the lethal takeover.

The Israel Defense Forces too came out looking bad again. The magic evaporated long ago, the most moral army in the world, that was once the best army in the world, failed again. More and more there is the impression that nearly everything it touches causes harm to Israel.


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## Brotherhood

Speeder 2 said:


> You talk more desperate lately. Has any of your purple pump sparepart encountered a major malfunction, Saigon Giáp?



Bro, he might caught you by surprise , viet-commie use this along-side with purple pump, and hes been desperate for decades.
Prostate and Ovary: The Traditional Vietnamese Medicine That May Hold The Key To Overcoming Prostate And Ovarian Disorders

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## Speeder 2

Brotherhood said:


> Bro, he might caught you by surprise ,...



you mean with a brand new battery, Saigon Giáp on the pump can go ballistic?

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## Fighter488

*THE ROVING EYE *
*We are all Gazans now ​*
By *Pepe Escobar *

Just imagine if these were Iranian commandos attacking a multinational, six-boat aid flotilla in international waters. The United States, the European Union and Israel would instantly make sure to shock and awe Iran to kingdom come. 

Instead, it was Israeli commandos who perpetrated this bit of gunboat diplomacy - or "self-defense" - in the dark hours of the early morning, in international waters, some 130 kilometers off the coast of Gaza. 

And what if they were Somali pirates? Oh no, these are Israeli pirates fighting shady, "terrorist" Muslims ... It doesn't matter that Arab, Turkish, European, developing-world public opinion and governments are fuming. So what? Israel always gets away with - as Turkey is stressing - "murder" (or "state terrorism", according to Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan). 

Footage from the deck of the Turkish ship Mavi Marmara - played across the world, but not much on US networks - is unmistakable. Fully body-armored and weaponized Israeli commandos have approached the flotilla on high-speed marine dinghies, deployed stun grenades and tear gas and shot everything in sight - a military helicopter is hovering over the flotilla. At a certain point the commander of the Marmara is heard, in English: "Please stop all resistance. They are using live ammunition." 

Ah, the "resistance" ... Debka, essentially an Israeli intelligence digital spin machine, described the peace flotilla occupants as armed with "firebombs, stun grenades, broken glass, slingshots, iron bars, axes and knives". Were the commandos only carrying paintballs and pistols? 

So there you have it - Monty Python once again (tragically) remixed for the 21st century. The best-trained special forces in the world just wanted to "talk" and were attacked by a bunch of knife-wielding terrorists in a Turkish boat carrying tons of aid - medicine, building materials, school equipment, food, water purifiers, toys - for the 1.5 million Gazans who have been slowly dying under an Israeli blockade for the past three years, ever since they democratically elected a government by Hamas. 

Debka even laments that the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) - "famous for its innovative electronic warfare capabilities" - did not bother to jam the signals and images coming from the flotilla, so the whole world wouldn't see a thing. They also lament the attack was in international waters; "the blockade zone is 20 nautical miles deep from Gaza. An Israeli raid at that limit would have been easier to justify". Obviously, they ignore the fact that Israel has no legal international claim to the (illegally occupied) Gaza coast. 

*We're such a suffering lot *

No one excels in post-Orwellian, war-is-peace newspeak as Israel. Not only the Israeli commandos are being spun as the victims; the world is being subjected to a complete Israeli-orchestrated news blackout. Nobody really knows how many civilians were killed (nine, 19,20? Mostly Turkish? Maybe two Algerians? Any Americans or Europeans?) Nobody really knows if they were carrying "weapons". Nobody really knows at what point the commandos freaked out (eyewitnesses tell of people being killed in their sleep). 

All the several hundred passengers on the flotilla - Muslims, Christians, diplomats, non-governmental organization officials, journalists - have been de facto kidnapped by Israel. Nobody knows where they are being held. Radio static rules. Only myriad Israeli "spokespeople" control the word. 

Such as IDF spokeswoman Avital Liebovitch, stressing how lucky were the commandos to "have those guns" to defend themselves (they are being hailed in Israel as "brave heroes"). 

So here's how Israeli newspeak goes. Weapons-smuggling Hamas "terrorists" dupe fake international "demonstrators" into becoming human shields and start a firefight with Israeli commandos. Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon, for instance, has described the flotilla as an al-Qaeda-linked "armada of hate and violence". Looks like Hamas and al-Qaeda are now in the business of smuggling cement, orange juice and Chinese dolls. 

It doesn't matter in all this that the World Health Organization, in a fresh report, has stressed how Gaza - because of the illegal Israeli blockade the flotilla was trying to break - is mired in absolute poverty, unemployment, lack of medicine and medical equipment, and is being literally starved to death; no less than 10% of Gazans, mostly children, are physically stunted from malnutrition. The Israeli commandos were defending the illegal Israeli blockade in Gaza. 

Progressive Jews, wherever they live, are the first to admit that most of Israel nowadays is extreme right-wing, paranoid, and convinced they are victims of a global propaganda war. Thus the eternal recurrence message - conveniently enveloped by US tax dollars - to the whole world. Shut up. We are the victims - we are always the victims. If you don't believe it, you are an anti-Semite. 

*The fool on the hill *

Fortunately for Israel, there's always the original land of the free, home of the brave. Only in the US large sections of the population are capable of clamoring for punishing sanctions to be imposed on Iran and North Korea while being blind to the slow-motion genocide going on in the Israeli gulag. 

And only one place in the whole world is capable of buying the narrative of Israel as "victims" of a humanitarian aid flotilla: the US Congress. The US State Department, in an official note, practically condemned the humanitarians. As for US President Barack Obama, so far he has been as mute (embarrassed?) as during the first weeks of the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico; the White House only expressed "deep regret", without condemning Israel. 

The White House's Israeli-in-charge, Rahm Emanuel, had invited Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to Washington for an amenable kiss-and-makeup get-together this Tuesday. On Monday, Netanyahu canceled the trip. Word in Washington is that Obama would pass a sponge over non-stop expansion of Jewish settlements in the West Bank and the appalling condition of the Gaza gulag as a whole in exchange for crucial extra cash from pro-Israel donors to the Democratic party, essential for winning the November legislative elections in the US. The Democrats are going to get the cash anyway - they just need to be mildly "concerned" about the ocean massacre, and that's it. 

Once again poor Obama - perhaps against his will - is left emasculated, like a mere Banana Republic satrap, while Netanyahu is allowed to merrily groan a remixed version of The Village People's Macho, Macho Man. As the humanitarian flotilla was sailing under Turkish, Greek and Irish flags, the Israeli commandos in fact attacked a microcosm of the real, flesh-and-blood "international community" - with Netanyahu harboring no doubts he'll once again get away with it. 

So how does it feel, Mr President, to be the fool on the hill? 

And how does it feel for the rest of us, the real, flesh-and-blood international community - apart from manifesting immense outrage (as did the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) plus Turkey, France and Spain)? A distinct possibility - already considered in quite a few latitudes - is to boycott all things Israeli, or impose sanctions. To really hurt their economy. To totally isolate them diplomatically. If for a majority of Israelis the whole world is their enemy - governments, organizations, non-governmental organizations, aid agencies, public opinion - why not return the compliment? 

*Pepe Escobar *_is the author of Globalistan: How the Globalized World is Dissolving into Liquid War (Nimble Books, 2007) and Red Zone Blues: a snapshot of Baghdad during the surge. His new book, just out, is Obama does Globalistan (Nimble Books, 2009). 

He may be reached at pepeasia@yahoo.com._ 

(Copyright 2010 Asia Times Online (Holdings) Ltd. All rights reserved. Please contact us about sales, syndication and republishing.) 


Asia Times Online :: Middle East News, Iraq, Iran current affairs

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## shining eyes

Unconfirmed Report: The Turks are sailing a new convoy to #Gaza, escorted by warships to the ends of the waters of Gaza.


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## Thomas

shining eyes said:


> Unconfirmed Report: The Turks are sailing a new convoy to #Gaza, escorted by warships to the ends of the waters of Gaza.



Please do not post unconfirmed reports. all it does is add to the confusion and feed the trolls.


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## shining eyes

Thomas said:


> Please do not post unconfirmed reports. all it does is add to the confusion and feed the trolls.



NOW IT IS CONFIRMED


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## Thomas

shining eyes said:


> NOW IT IS CONFIRMED



Then please post a link.


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## gambit

> gambit said:
> 
> 
> 
> We can amend that to be ICBM instead of aircraft. If by virtue of being in international waters renders one immune from being boarded, then no one has any right to shoot down another country's ICBM in flight outside of one's airspace. After all, it has not violated anyone's territorial airspace or impact anyone's soil.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Neither Right Nor Wrong said:
> 
> 
> 
> ICBM is not *manned *!!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

It does not matter. The vehicle belongs to a State and its function serves that State. By your argument, those drones in Afghanistan do not belong to the US? So to go back to your previous argument, merely being in international waters grant immunity from boarding, we can extend that idea to the the third dimension as well. An ICBM in a path towards another country cannot be intercepted while it is in orbit since space belongs to no one.


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## PakistaniWarrior

Thomas said:


> Then please post a link.



*Gazans rush for Egyptian border*
*Activists send another boat as anti-Israel protests grow*






Palestinian women shout slogans during a protest in front of the UNESCO headquarters in Gaza City against the storming of Gaza-bound ships.

By AMY TEIBEL 




updated 2 hours, 40 minutes ago

JERUSALEM - Egypt declared it was temporarily opening a crossing into the Gaza Strip after a raid on an aid flotilla that ended with Israeli soldiers killing civilians and pro-Palestinian activists sent another boat on Tuesday to challenge Israel's blockade of the Palestinian territory.

The raid provoked ferocious international condemnation of Israel, raised questions at home, and appeared likely to increase pressure to end the blockade that has deepened the poverty of the 1.5 million Palestinians in the strip. Turkey, which unofficially supported the flotilla, has led the criticism, calling the Israeli raid a "bloody massacre." 

Amid the increasing tensions,* the Israeli military said it carried out an airstrike in Gaza on Tuesday*, and an Islamic militant group said three of its members were killed after firing rockets into southern Israel. Israeli authorities said the rockets landed in open areas and caused no injuries.

Two militants infiltrating into Israel from Gaza were killed in a separate incident Tuesday, the military said.

*Deadly confrontation*

The pro-Palestinian flotilla had been headed to Gaza with tens of thousands of tons of aid that Israel bans from Gaza. After days of warnings, Israel intercepted the flotilla under the cover of darkness early Monday, setting off a violent melee that left ten activists dead, according to the United Nations, and dozens of people, including seven soldiers, wounded. Most of the dead were believed to be Turks. 

The United Nations Security Council condemned acts which resulted in the loss of civilian lives and called for an impartial investigation into Israel's deadly raid on the ships, but it stopped short of condemning Israel. 

Israel said 679 people were arrested, and about 50 of those had left the country voluntarily. Hundreds who refused to cooperate remained jailed and subject to deportation. 

Israel says the Gaza blockade is needed to prevent the Iranian-backed Hamas, which has fired thousands of rockets into the Jewish state, from building up its arsenal. It also wants to pressure Hamas to free an Israeli soldier it has held for four years. 

Critics say the blockade has failed to weaken Hamas but further strapped an already impoverished economy. It also has prevented Gaza from rebuilding after a devastating Israeli military offensive early last year. 

Furious rush to flee blockade
Egypt, which has enforced the blockade with Israel since Hamas militants seized control of Gaza in 2007, said it was opening the border for several days to allow aid into the area. 

The governor of Egyptian's northern Sinai district, Murad Muwafi, said it was a humanitarian gesture meant to "alleviate the suffering of our Palestinian brothers after the Israeli attack." 

Several thousand Gazans made a furious rush to the Egyptian border, hoping to take advantage of a rare chance to escape the blockaded territory. 

Cars with suitcases piled on their roofs streamed to the border, while many others lugged overstuffed bags on foot. Dozens of Hamas police with automatic weapons were patrolling the area to maintain order. 

"We are working to help residents take advantage of this opportunity," said Hamas Interior Ministry spokesman Ihab Ghussein. "We hope it will be open all the time, not just as a response to yesterday's events." 

*Activists send more boats*

Greta Berlin said the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, would not be deterred and that another cargo boat was off the coast of Italy en route to Gaza. A second boat carrying about three dozen passengers is expected to join it, Berlin said. She said the two boats would arrive in the region late this week or early next week. 

"This initiative is not going to stop," she said from the group's base in Cyprus. "We think eventually Israel will get some kind of common sense. They're going to have to stop the blockade of Gaza, and one of the ways to do this is for us to continue to send the boats." 

Protests have erupted in a number of Muslim countries including Turkey, which unofficially supported the flotilla, Indonesia and Malaysia, where a Palestinian man slashed himself outside the American Embassy. 

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, an outspoken critic of Israel, told lawmakers Tuesday that the Israeli raid was an attack "on international law, the conscience of humanity and world peace." 

"This bloody massacre by Israel on ships that were taking humanitarian aid to Gaza deserves every kind of curse," he said, demanding that Israel immediately halt its "inhumane" blockade of Gaza. 

Turkey's Foreign Ministry said four Turkish citizens were confirmed slain by Israeli commandos and another five were also believed to be Turks. Israeli authorities were still trying to confirm their nationalities. 

Thousands of pro-Islamic and nationalist Turks have poured into the streets in Istanbul and Ankara since the report of the Israeli raid. Protesters with Palestinian and Turkish flags shouted "Down with Israel!" outside Israeli diplomatic missions. 

*Intense debate within Israel*

Within Israel, the raid sparked intense debate over why the military operation went awry. 

Israel sent commandos onto the six ships carrying nearly 700 activists after mission organizers ignored the government's call to bring the cargo to an Israeli port, where it would be inspected and transferred to Gaza. In most cases, the passengers quickly surrendered. But on the largest ship, the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara, the forces encountered resistance. 

Israeli commandos rappelled on ropes from a helicopter one by one and army videos showed them being attacked by angry activists with metal rods and one soldier being thrown off the ship. Others jumped overboard to escape the angry mob. Israeli authorities said they were attacked with knives, clubs and live fire from two pistols wrested from soldiers. The soldiers then opened fire, killing nine. 






Israeli military analysts said it was a mistake to send commandos to board the ship and the military could have used non-lethal weapons such as tear gas. They also said the intelligence-gathering was faulty. 

Retired Gen. Shlomo Brom asked why the ships' engines weren't sabotaged instead. 

"There were certain objectives to this operation. One was not to let the vessels get to Gaza, but the other objective was to do it without any damage to Israel's image," Brom told The Associated Press. "Certainly it failed." 

The daily Maariv, in a front-page headline, called the raid a "debacle." 

*Hundreds sent to jail*

Sabine Haddad, spokeswoman for the Israeli Interior Ministry, said 679 people were arrested and handed deportation orders. By midafternoon Tuesday, some 50 people had left the country voluntarily. But hundreds refused to cooperate and were sent to jail. 

"The rest said they wanted to go to jail and are at Beersheba jail going through a process of deportation," she said. She said judges were hearing the cases and that almost everyone would be expelled within the next few days. 

She said more than half of those arrested were from Turkey, with others coming from more than 30 other countries, including Britain, Algeria, Jordan, Kuwait, Germany and the U.S. Israeli police said four Arab Israeli citizens would face criminal charges. 

Israel did not allow access to the activists, but a handful who were deported arrived home Tuesday, including a Turkish woman and her 1-year-old son, six Greeks and three German lawmakers. 

"There was a massacre on board," said the woman, Nilufer Cetin, whose husband, Ekrem, is the ship's engineer and was still in Israeli custody. "The ship turned into a lake of blood." 

Turkey said it was sending three ambulance planes to Israel to return 20 Turkish activists injured in the operation and had other aircraft ready to get other activists. About 400 Turks took part in the flotilla. 

*9th attempt to breach blockade*

The flotilla was the ninth attempt by sea to breach the blockade Israel and Egypt imposed after Hamas violently seized the territory. Israel allowed five seaborne aid shipments through but snapped the blockade shut after its 2009 war in Gaza. 

There was little call in Israel for an end to the blockade. Israelis have little sympathy for Gaza, which sent thousands of rockets and mortar rounds crashing into Israel for years before last year's war. 

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37442104/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa//


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## PakistaniWarrior

*Israeli airstrike kills 3 militants in north Gaza*

*(AP) &#8211; 4 hours ago*

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip &#8212; An Islamic militant group in the Gaza Strip says three of its members have been killed in an Israeli airstrike in northern Gaza.

The Iranian-backed Islamic Jihad says the fighters were killed shortly after firing rockets into southern Israel. Israeli authorities say the rockets landed in open areas and caused no injuries.

The Israeli military is confirming it carried out an airstrike Tuesday, and Gaza's chief medical examiner also says there were three deaths.

Tensions have been high since Israeli naval commandos stormed a flotilla carrying hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists to Gaza on Monday. Nine activists were killed.

*THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below*.

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) &#8212; Several thousand Gazans are making a furious rush to the Egyptian border, hoping to take advantage of a rare chance to escape the blockaded territory.

Egypt announced Tuesday it was temporarily opening the border, a day after an Israeli naval raid killed nine pro-Palestinian activists sailing to Gaza.

Cars with suitcases piled on their roofs are streaming to the border, while many others are lugging overstaffed bags on foot. Dozens of Hamas police with automatic weapons are patrolling the area to maintain order.

Copyright &#169; 2010 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. 

The Associated Press: Israeli airstrike kills 3 militants in north Gaza


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## PakistaniWarrior




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## Nemesis

Honestly, I fail to comprehend Israeli policies, its almost like they want the world to hate them.

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## PakistaniWarrior




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## Thomas

I see nothing saying the ships will be escorted by Turkish warships.


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## PakistaniWarrior

^^If Israel stops these ships it very well might spark a greater regional conflict.


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## Thomas

PakistaniWarrior said:


> ^^If Israel stops these ships it very well might spark a greater regional conflict.



I doubt it, though Israel would be wise to wait till the ships actually enter their territorial waters. If they want to end these flotillas all they need to do is confiscate the ships and sell them. No boat owners would risk their ships after that.


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## Ghareeb_Da_Baal

I wonder when Dis-rael will release USS liberty footage!


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## pak-yes

Where the world is going.So much hue and cry over suspected NK sub torpedoing SK boat and nothing on Zionists attacking an unarmed boat in International waters.

What should i say International hypocrisy.


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## gurjot

pak-yes said:


> Where the world is going.So much hue and cry over suspected NK sub torpedoing SK boat and nothing on Zionists attacking an unarmed boat in International waters.
> 
> What should i say International hypocrisy.



jiski laathi uski bhains,u accept it or not.

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## Ahmad

pak-yes said:


> Where the world is going.So much hue and cry over suspected NK sub torpedoing SK boat and nothing on Zionists attacking an unarmed boat in International waters.
> 
> What should i say International hypocrisy.



american hypocracy, not internation hypocracy.


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## pak-yes

gurjot said:


> jiski laathi uski bhains,u accept it or not.



Yes yar kia kary its a sad fact of life.



Ahmad said:


> american hypocracy, not internation hypocracy.



I think everyone is involved those gun boats which rammed flotilla who do you think payed for them yes Israel got them free of cost from Germans.Infact Whole Marine corps is mostly made up of free equipment from Germany.Latest addition is the dolphin class subs.Featuring the classified type 212 AIP which Germans don't give to any other country.


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## LegionnairE

Is that supposed to be a defence forum? I readed 13 pages but uhm this thing dont inculde anything military? lol

Almost every post is off topic in here, this forum just became boring to me...


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## Desert Fox

gambit said:


> Turkey will do nothing militarily since Turkey was not a sponsor of the aid group. *The Israeli assault on the ship did not constitute an attack on Turkey.*



but there were Two Turkish Nationals on board who were killed by the israelis!


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## Desert Fox

afriend said:


> There might be any issues in it. May be they where in israel waters.. or may be the activitis turned violent agains the soliders..!! May be that led to the interception into such a violent one. Other wise i dont see any reason for israelis to simply go there and fire at unarmed people...



the israelis opened fire first from their boats and then they landed through helicopters!


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## gambit

SilentNinja said:


> but there were Two Turkish Nationals on board who were killed by the israelis!


Yes...But at worst, this would constitute a criminal charge, not one of endangering Turkish national security and interests. The claim here is that Turkey could use this to compel fellow NATO members into taking *MILITARY* actions against Israel. That will not work as this would set a dangerous precedent for all alliances. The philosophical foundation for NATO is that if there is a threat to one member, said threat should be applicable to all, like how the Soviet Union was such a threat. What Israel did was no threat to Turkish national security and interests. If Turkey want to start a war against Israel over this, just like Iraq, Turkey will be alone and like it or not, Israel will win.


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## Airboss

Quaid-i-Azam said:


> Ghandi would've smacked you silly for your country being the rape/aids/toiletless capital of the world.



Ain't that the truth!!!!

LOL....Very Nicely Put!!!


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## adir

Israel turkey war lol.
Come on dont be stupid and even if what turkey would do?
They will fight along with hizballah and hamass?If it happend everyone will support israel.Turkey will say baby to nato(israel also have representative in nato)and goodbay UE.Also usa will stop every millatry weponry to turkey and the funny part israel also will do the same.
Every one should to be calmed down


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## DESERT FIGHTER

adir said:


> Israel turkey war lol.
> Come on dont be stupid and even if what turkey would do?
> They will fight along with hizballah and hamass?If it happend everyone will support israel.Turkey will say baby to nato(israel also have representative in nato)and goodbay UE.Also usa will stop every millatry weponry to turkey and the funny part israel also will do the same.
> Every one should to be calmed down



Hey chump,
At this time assreal is being bashed in the world....UN....and even EU.
So shut up and get a life.... ur bloody terrorist state should be nuked.

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## Evil Flare

Perhaps we should send Nukes to Turkey so we can drop it to Tel aviv .


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## LegionnairE

adir said:


> Israel turkey war lol.
> Come on dont be stupid and even if what turkey would do?
> They will fight along with hizballah and hamass?If it happend everyone will support israel.Turkey will say baby to nato(israel also have representative in nato)and goodbay UE.Also usa will stop every millatry weponry to turkey and the funny part israel also will do the same.
> Every one should to be calmed down



So when Israel fights along with PKK dogs its right, When Turkey Fights along hezballah and hamas Its wrong.

Just tell me, can you send some commandos to Turkish Frigates? Can you do the same with our navy?

Israel navy is nothing more than Turkish Coast Guard

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## cabatli_53

adir said:


> Israel turkey war lol.
> Come on dont be stupid and even if what turkey would do?
> They will fight along with hizballah and hamass?If it happend everyone will support israel.Turkey will say baby to nato(israel also have representative in nato)and goodbay UE.Also usa will stop every millatry weponry to turkey and the funny part israel also will do the same.
> Every one should to be calmed down




I can just say that You should thanks Allah everyday because of You do not have any border with Turkey in those days. Once Turkish nation got Afraid, It needs to spill enemy blood too much and You should know that Turkish nation really like WAR's and die for his for own country is a proud issue in Turkey.

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## adir

LegionnairE said:


> So when Israel fights along with PKK dogs its right, When Turkey Fights along hezballah and hamas Its wrong.
> 
> Just tell me, can you send some commandos to Turkish Frigates? Can you do the same with our navy?
> 
> Israel navy is nothing more than Turkish Coast Guard



lol do you have evidence that israel arming PKK?this is just prpoganda,
turkey cannot do noting to israel ,israel air force can wipe the turkish navy without any problem and also your airforce will be good exercise for israel air force.And also our submarin will do a good jobe.
Turkey will lose usa (f35,and any other milatry weponry that usa give to turkey)


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## Speeder 2

Turkey's PM can just blah blah in front of cameras. He can not, and will not, do a jack shi!t to Israel, neither will the US and the UK as both of these two govenments are OWNED by Zionists. The only countries in this world that could take out Israel are Russia (IF it's not owned by Zionists, yet) and China.

That's why Israel, the biggest state-sponsored terrorist in the ME, could decide beforehand with little or no worry to raid the flotilla in international waters and started a killing spree... 

10 dead, errr...so? Even Israel killed 100, the maximum it would get is "it was unfortunate" kind of BS from the UN and media. Impatial investigation? And? It would take years and soon disappear in everyone's memory after Zionist Western Media starts its spinning machines.



I do hope that Iran could get THE bomb though...


----------



## cabatli_53

adir said:


> lol do you have evidence that israel arming PKK?this is just prpoganda,
> turkey cannot do noting to israel ,israel air force can wipe the turkish navy without any problem and also your airforce will be good exercise for israel air force.And also our submarin will do a good jobe.
> Turkey will lose usa (f35,and any other milatry weponry that usa give to turkey)



You should learn to fart with your own Arses. When you learned it, You will be ready to go into a war with Turkey.


That's your style...

-Turkish Navy can wipe Israeli tiny navy in a short time without any problem... 

-Turkish airforces with numerical advantages can wipe Israeli Air forces easily....

but Do not make any sense. Real wars gives more pain than your easy statements...

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## TOPGUN

adir said:


> Dont tell me to shut up the internet in not like sudia arbia or pakistan her i can say what i want and if you dont like it you can push a finger to your ***
> 
> befor nucking my country we will nuck meca and all our enemys



Adir please use the fine line of rules and respect to ones holy place (MECCA) please act in a decent manner stick to the topic no one said anything about nucking your holy wall show some class othwise you will find your self out of her real quick speak freely but in respect no one said anything about any holy sites so why you bringing that up


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## adir

cabatli_53 said:


> You should learn to fart with your own Arses. When you learned it, You will be ready to go into a war with Turkey.
> 
> 
> That's your style...
> 
> -Turkish Navy can wipe Israeli tiny navy in a short time without any problem...
> 
> -Turkish airforces with numerical advantages can wipe Israeli Air forces easily....
> 
> but Do not make any sense. Real wars gives more pain than your easy statements...




HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
turky have 200f16 and some other f4
israel 350f16 150f15
Israel have more technology advantages from turkey(you buy from us we dont buy from you)
turky navy may be strong but he cannot do noting when he will come to israel cost we have mako-100 sa'ar 5b (38battel ship that are the most advanced in the worls+9submarine)


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## cabatli_53

and I think With your current training level for your special forces, You can just equal with Zimbabwe special forces...

You should tell your special forces that When they agreed on boarding on a ship to attack, They should use fore or aft side to save their back from a likely attack. Boarding special forces in the middile of ship in crowded is the most stupid attack style I have ever meet in my life. 

Do not forget to tell your special forces those. Even Somalian prates can board the ships safer than your special forces...

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## adir

cabatli_53 said:


> and I think With your current training level for your special forces, You can just equal with Zimbabwe special forces...
> 
> You should tell your special forces that When they agreed on boarding on a ship to attack, They should use fore or aft side to save their back from a likely attack. Boarding special forces in the middile of ship in crowded is the most stupid attack style I have ever meet in my life.
> 
> Do not forget to tell your special forces those. Even Somalian prates can board the ships safer than your special forces...



If they don't were special forces thier would be 100 or even 200 dead.They have been attacked and they dident retaliate
see the video


----------



## cabatli_53

adir said:


> If they don't not special forces thier would be 100 or even 200 dead.They have been attacked and they dident retaliate
> see the video



Do not forget What I told you above. 

And Being able to kill 200 CIVILIANS in a ship must be great sucess for a group of idiot special forces of Israel...


----------



## cabatli_53

adir said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
> turky have 200f16 and some other f4
> israel 350f16 150f15
> Israel have more technology advantages from turkey(you buy from us we dont buy from you)
> turky navy may be strong but he cannot do noting when he will come to israel cost we have mako-100 sa'ar 5b (38battel ship that are the most advanced in the worls+9submarine)





As I said, Real wars give more pain than your statements... and Do not forget to type the number of your airforces correctly... You have totally 368 aircraft (F-16-15) and Some of your f-16's are obsolete...


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## cabatli_53

adir said:


> what a peacefull activist
> lol



Photoshop images do not make any sense in such forums. Disinformation is everything for you...


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## cabatli_53

I advise your special forces to join into our frigates for Somalian prate missions in Aden. I think Israeli forces need more things to learn from Somalian prates in terms of boarding a ship...

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## adir




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## cabatli_53

Are you a stupid or what ? Every ship has such things on board. You can collect dozens of knives from kitchen and electrical cutting devices from engine room easily to introduce into public...


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## adir

cabatli_53 said:


> Are you a stupid or what ? Every ship has such things on board. You can collect dozens of knives from kitchen and electrical cutting devices from engine room easily to introduce into public...



It seems that thier are alot of knives and ax.
What they need ax for,israel will show the UN the video that show how peacefull they are


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## Black Stone

This is totally condemnable for what the Israelis have done, but what exactly can Turkey do to Israel?.


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## adir




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## cabatli_53

Do not you have a littile bit shame ? You have attacked on a civilian ship navigating into international waters to carry some humanitarian aids to Gazza and killed tens of civilian people After an idiotic boarding operation and now, You came here for propagandist purposes and telling us How powerfull your military are and How your forces have killed civilian forces sucessfully...


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## adir

cabatli_53 said:


> Do not you have a littile bit shame ? You have attacked on a civilian ship and killed tens of civilian people After an idiotic boarding operation and now, You came here for propagandist purposes and telling us How powerfull your military are and How your forces have killed civilian forces sucessfully...



no
We killed terrorist that attackt our soldiers
the video say all truth


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## cabatli_53

adir said:


> no
> We killed terrorist that attackt our soldiers
> the video say all truth



You should have to distinguish some truths. The terorists are called like the people who attacks on civilians... I mean It is you Israel !!!

and The people you called like Terorists are who wants to carry some aids for needers. We call such people like volunteers...

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## adir

cabatli_53 said:


> You should have to differ some truths. The terorists are called like the people who attacks on civilians... I mean It is you Israel !!!
> 
> and The people you called like Terorists are who wants to carry some aids for needers. We call such people like volunteers...




what a bullshit if they wanted to help gaza and sand tham they aid they could do it without any problem but no thier mission was to clash with IDF


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## Vande Mataram

cabatli_53 said:


> Do not you have a littile bit shame ? You have attacked on a civilian ship navigating into international waters to carry some humanitarian aids to Gazza and killed tens of civilian people After an idiotic boarding operation and now, You came here for propagandist purposes and telling us How powerfull your military are and How your forces have killed civilian forces sucessfully...



Actually that's YOUR biased opinion.
Did you consider the OTHER view that contradicts what you just said.

IDF for you:
Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

 
Why can't you wait till the official report comes out?


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## Black Stone

adir said:


> no
> We killed terrorist that attackt our soldiers
> the video say all truth



Son of David, do you believe Israel did nothing wrong in this incident?.

I want to know your views.

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## gurjot

nightmare 4 those soldiers who entered that ship


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## cabatli_53

adir said:


> some aids for needers
> what a bullshit if they wanted to help gaza and sand tham they aid they could do it without any problem but no thier mission was to clash with IDF



Ahh really ? Who gives you that mission to attack on a civilian ship navigating into international waters to kill civilians ? Do not tell me as If It was Civilian volunteers who attacked on an Israeli Naval Ship...


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Vande Mataram said:


> Actually that's YOUR biased opinion.
> Did you consider the OTHER view that contradicts what you just said.
> 
> IDF for you:
> Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com
> 
> 
> Why can't you wait till the official report comes out?



Tell this to BAN KI MOON,UN and EU countries who condemned it....Ur more loyal to hell real then even ....


----------



## Cheetah786

hal-fgfa said:


> we dont need any donation or any free weapon so that we need permission ...
> 
> but surely you get donation from USA so u need not india



Foreign Aid and India:
Financing the Leviathan State
by Shyam J. Kamath 

Shyam J. Kamath is an associate professor of economics in the School of Business and Economics, California State University at Hayward.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Executive Summary

With a debate now raging over whether further foreign aid programs financed by U.S. taxpayers are justified in the post-Cold War era, a review of the development experience of the recipient of the largest amount of foreign aid is instructive. India has received more foreign aid than any other developing nation since the end of World War II--estimated at almost $55 billion since the beginning of its First Five-Year Plan in 1951.(1) It has long been an article of faith among development economists and policymakers that foreign aid is a necessary and central component of economic development, yet the record of Indian economic development since 1947 belies that view.

India has had one of the lowest rates of growth of all developing countries and remains one of the poorest countries in the world after almost 45 years of aid-financed, centrally planned development. Foreign aid has directly financed and sustained India's centralized planning and control framework and thereby financed the growth of one of the noncommunist world's largest and most inefficient public sectors. In 1988-89, 101 of the country's 222 largest public-sector companies recorded losses and contributed to a federal deficit five times as large, in relative terms, as the U.S. budget deficit.(2)

Today, after nearly 45 years of planned economic development, India's annual per capita income remains around $300. Almost 40 percent of Indians live below the official poverty line, and the absolute number of Indians in that category increased sharply between the late 1950s and the mid-1980s. In short, India is a paradigmatic case of the failure of government-sponsored aid; it stands as a dramatic testimonial to why such aid should go the way of the socialist development model it has bankrolled for decades.


Foreign Aid and India: Financing the Leviathan State

Now i suggest you get back to the topic.


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## cabatli_53

adir said:


> I am not reply a commet to pepole like you,you just not worth it.
> And cabatli_53 you sould be a shame you killed 1.5 innocent armanis.



Do not chance the subject. It is completely different than What We are talking here. If it was true, This incident will be in international courts to judge. 

We call those like Armenian lies...


----------



## Black Stone

Rebell said:


> He is not the Son of David, he is the Jesus killer



I understand that most people on this forum don't like me.


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## Vande Mataram

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Tell this to BAN KI MOON,UN and EU countries who condemned it....Ur more loyal to hell real then even ....



They condemned the attacks on the people. By 'demanding an answer from Israel' they didn't say Israel was guilty.

If you disagree, you provide me with exact quotes from this BAN KI MOON and UN EU countries saying *Israel is guilty of killing innocent civilians under no provocation.
*

Even I condemn that the 10 people died! and the issue *must* be investigated!

But I still based on what I saw *so far* am convinced that Israel isn't at fault. The commandos had to open fire.... (watch the video)

But this damage to other innocent people is still bad.


----------



## cabatli_53

Nukes here, Nukes there... USA here, USA there...

Do not you have anything different than USA and Nukes as a thrump to use against enemies ?

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## Rebell

Black Stone said:


> I understand that most people on this forum don't like me.



I like you


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## Black Stone

adir said:


> I do Remember also i would like to see the sone of a ***** today that would like to mess with israel,he would be nuckd.



I don't understand what your saying here. Are you saying that Israel is the new superpower of the world because the sons of David stormed some boats?.


----------



## Cheetah786

Vande Mataram said:


> Since when was Hitler a Jew?



One of the most frequently asked questions whether Adolf Hitler was Jewish or had ancestors who were. The idea seems to arise from the remote possibility that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Hitler's father, Alois, was registered as an illegitimate child with no father. Alois' mother worked in the home of a wealthy Jew and there is some chance a son in that household got the woman (i.e., Hitler's grandmother) pregnant.

Was Hitler Jewish?


----------



## Vande Mataram

cabatli_53 said:


> Nukes here, Nukes there... USA here, USA there...
> 
> Do not you have anything different than USA and Nukes as a thrump to use against enemies ?



The Palestinians have rockets to fire at Israel. Why can't Israel use nukes?

Same policy of us. (ya, the new one)
In the event of war or threat, it _may_ use nuclear weapons.


----------



## Black Stone

Rebell said:


> I like you



Your new, I can understand. I was only joking. Do you really think I care much what people think on this forum?.

I only pay attention to the interesting ones 

Older members would know what I mean by that.


----------



## Vande Mataram

Cheetah786 said:


> One of the most frequently asked questions whether Adolf Hitler was Jewish or had ancestors who were. The idea seems to arise from the remote possibility that Hitler's grandfather was Jewish. Hitler's father, Alois, was registered as an illegitimate child with no father. Alois' mother worked in the home of a wealthy Jew and there is some chance a son in that household got the woman (i.e., Hitler's grandmother) pregnant.
> 
> Was Hitler Jewish?



No one's born into a religion. Maybe your Muslim kids do into Islam, but actually.

Hitler was never a Jew in his lifetime.

 Your religion isn't hard coded in your DNA.


----------



## Rebell

Vande Mataram said:


> The Palestinians have rockets to fire at Israel. Why can't Israel use nukes?
> 
> Same policy of us. (ya, the new one)
> In the event of war or threat, it _may_ use nuclear weapons.



Yeah, the Palestinians have stones to throw, why cannot Israel use Tanks?


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Why is this zoinist terrorist still here?he has been abusing religion and others and still here?Mods ban this low life scum


----------



## Brotherhood

Vande Mataram said:


> *The Palestinians have rockets to fire at Israel. Why can't Israel use nukes?*
> 
> *Same policy of us.* (ya, the new one)
> In the event of war or threat, it _may_ use nuclear weapons.




HaHaHa, a "Text Book" example of an IQ 82 "Genius"

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## EyelessInGaza

Lord....They should conduct a sanity test before allowing people on t'internet.


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## Jigs

adir said:


> I do Remember also i would like to see the sone of a ***** today that would like to mess with israel,he would be nuckd.



Lets see Israel attack Turkish naval ship in international waters. You guys would get your small navy destroyed in a matter of days. You wouldn't dare use nukes in retaliation because the world would end you. Not even your masters in the U.S. would support such an act. So understand that bringing up nukes in any war situation is not a valid threat unless your country is going to be destroyed.


----------



## FreekiN

You people are idiots.

(You know who you are)


----------



## adir

Jigs said:


> Lets see Israel attack Turkish naval ship in international waters. You guys would get your small navy destroyed in a matter of days. You wouldn't dare use nukes in retaliation because the world would end you. Not even your masters in the U.S. would support such an act. So understand that bringing up nukes in any war situation is not a valid threat unless your country is going to be destroyed.




you will not attack us:
1)israel is not greece or pkk
2)you will be baned from nato
3)you will say baby to eu
4)usa will stop support you and also you can say baby f35 and other milatry wepons that turkey want.
5)you cannot attack us from the air we have the srongest air-force in the area.
6)even if you have a strong navy it cannot do noting to israel cost we have also navy and also the airforce will help our navy.
7)If you will be in hamass and hizballah side and you will sand troops to syria all the world will be aginst you.
chapish?


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

@vande who started it first?
this bloody israhelli terrorist....abused muslim,threatened to nuke our holiest places?
Why PAK WARIOR?AND MIKKIX?
If this low life HELLrealy dog was here i would have shot him myself.
Tht son of a low life b...


----------



## Cheetah786

IDF fears Turkey might send Navy ships with next flotilla

On Tuesday, Turkish Prime Minister threatened Israel not to test Turkeys patience.

"Turkey's hostility is as strong as its friendship is valuable, he said, adding "Israel in no way can legitimize this murder, it cannot wash its hand of this blood."

This comment, officials said, could signify a change in Turkish military action in the event that another flotilla is dispatched to the Gaza Strip. One official said that the possibility that Turkey would send navy ships was slim  due to the countrys membership in NATO  but that the possibility was of great concern.

This is a definite possibility that we need to prepare for, a senior defense official said on Tuesday.

The flotilla which arrived late Sunday night was comprised of six ships, and another two ships, including The Rachel Corrie, were expected to attempt to enter Israeli waters in the coming days.

Greta Berlin of the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla, said that two boats, one of which was carrying about three dozen passengers, would arrive in the region late this week or early next week.

"This initiative is not going to stop," she said from the group's base in Cyprus. "We think eventually Israel will get some kind of common sense. They're going to have to stop the blockade of Gaza, and one of the ways to do this is for us to continue to send the boats."

Navy sources said that the coming ships would be intercepted the same way the flotilla was stopped on Monday morning although it had yet to be decided if the operation would be carried out by Sayetet 13, the Navys commando unit.

We are tracking the ships and are under orders to stop them, a top Navy officer said.

According to the sources, the Navy, in a future operation will use more force to prevent ships from reaching the Gaza Strip. "We boarded the ship and were attacked as if it was a war," one officer said. "That will mean that we will have to come prepared in the future as if it was a war."


IDF: Global Jihad on flotilla


----------



## masijames

this video is for adir to watch 
because at the end all the Jew's life will be saved by Muslims

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## Jigs

adir said:


> you will not attack us:
> 1)israel is not greece or pkk
> 2)you will be baned from nato
> 3)you will say baby to eu
> 4)usa will stop support you and also you can say baby f35 and other milatry wepons that turkey want.
> 5)you cannot attack us from the air we have the srongest air-force in the area.
> 6)even if you have a strong navy it cannot do noting to israel cost we have also navy and also the airforce what will help our navy.
> 7)If you will be in hamass and hizballah side and you will sand troops to syria all the world will be aginst you.
> chapish?



1-Turkey isn't the Arab countries you have faced. 
2-If you attack us and we retaliate we would never be banned. 
3-Protecting our country is more important then the EU
4-U.S. would stay neutral they can't afford to lose Turkey.
5-We can totally attack you from the air While you have to travel far all over Turkey to strike our bases. 
6-I don't think you understand how large our navy is. We have 14 subs to your 3. We have 19 frigates that is more then the UK navy. While you have No frigates. We have 6 corvettes to your while you have 3. We have 25 Minewarfare ships while you have zero. You won't win how is your airforce going to fight off the Turkish Naval fleet and our airforce. You will not last in conventional warfare this isn't 1967 your dealing with Turkey.
7-There is no need to work with them they can go do their own thing while we destroy your navy and free Gaza.

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## PakistaniWarrior

Vande Mataram said:


> Shame on you.
> Post reported.
> 
> So stop commenting on this. You don't need to get personal.
> 
> I have a quote for you.
> 
> 
> 
> (no offense intended if you took any, sorry)
> 
> Listen.
> If a dog barks at you, only an idiot would bark back at it.
> 
> I don't care who did it first.
> They ruined the perfectly good hate-free thread (well except for some Jew/Israel hating posts )
> 
> This is how I feel when some Pakistan rants about India, Gandhi, USA, My religion (everyone accuses me of being a Hindu <-- Indian flag confusing them?).
> 
> Do i go off on these people.
> I have many mentally ill kids in my school.
> 
> I don't laugh at them nor say "you're a ******* idiot".
> 
> Comeon man. Don't even try to justify these events.
> 
> (@mods, delete this post too XD, off topic.)



stop your crying you nasty brown indian. and go suck off a jew cause that's what you fucks do.


----------



## adir

Jigs said:


> 1-Turkey isn't the Arab countries you have faced.
> 2-If you attack us and we retaliate we would never be banned.
> 3-Protecting our country is more important then the EU
> 4-U.S. would stay neutral they can't afford to lose Turkey.
> 5-We can totally attack you from the air While you have to travel far all over Turkey to strike our bases.
> 6-I don't think you understand how large our navy is. We have 14 subs to your 3. We have 19 frigates that is more then the UK navy. While you have No frigates. We have 6 corvettes to your while you have 3. We have 25 Minewarfare ships while you have zero. You won't win how is your airforce going to fight off the Turkish Naval fleet and our airforce. You will not last in conventional warfare this isn't 1967 your dealing with Turkey.
> 7-There is no need to work with them they can go do their own thing while we destroy your navy and free Gaza.



You forget that we have nucks
and we have alot of tham if israel will destroyd turkey is destroyed.
1)we foughat 4 armys at 1 time what you did fighting pkk lol
2)usa will become involved it is naive to say no
3)You cannot attack israel cost israel also have a strong navy it will not be easy,we have more fighter jets and more tanks.


----------



## Machoman

Wowwwwww what the heck is going on here. This is discussion forum not a cursing ground all who talk bad here will be grounded. Specially people cursing directly to God and religion.

Stop now...... All of u.


----------



## Jigs

adir said:


> You forget that we have nucks
> and we have alot of tham if israel will destroyd turkey is destroyed.
> 1)we foughat 4 armys at 1 time what you did fighting pkk lol
> 2)usa will become involved it is naive to say no
> 3)You cannot attack israel cost israel also have a strong navy it will not be easy,we have more fighter jets and more tanks.



Adir your not getting the picture. Your not going to use nukes unless we invade. If you attack the naval ships escorting the convoy we are at war. That means you started it. Using nukes would end your country. 

Israel does not have a strong navy i just listed what you have and it isn't much while we have one of the largest navies in the world.

Also enjoy your ban for your comments about Islam.

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## nadirkahn

adir said:


> You forget that we have nucks
> and we have alot of tham if israel will destroyd turkey is destroyed.
> 1)we foughat 4 armys at 1 time what you did fighting pkk lol
> 2)usa will become involved it is naive to say no
> 3)You cannot attack israel cost israel also have a strong navy it will not be easy,we have more fighter jets and more tanks.



He is an ethiest..
Jews believe in Allah(God)..


----------



## Vande Mataram

Jigs said:


> Adir your not getting the picture. Your not going to use nukes unless we invade. If you attack the naval ships escorting the convoy we are at war. That means you started it. Using nukes would end your country.
> 
> Israel does not have a strong navy i just listed what you have and it isn't much while we have one of the largest navies in the world.
> 
> Also enjoy your ban for your comments about Islam.



Comeon, it ain't gonna go to war.
Turkey and Israel was bros till now.

They may not be this tight, but there's no way there's going to be a war because of this issue.

(sorry for gangsta talk XD, I'm about to go to bed)


----------



## mikkix

Machoman said:


> Wowwwwww what the heck is going on here. This is discussion forum not a cursing ground all who talk bad here will be grounded. Specially people cursing directly to God and religion.
> 
> Stop now...... All of u.



sorry bro and mod i had made a terrible mistake to reply that assreal..
he started first but i should forget what he submits...


----------



## mikkix

mikkix said:


> sorry bro and mod i had made a terrible mistake to reply that assreal..
> he started first but i should forget what he submits...



sorry again but this ****** should be banned....


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

No need to attack isra hell.... its going to die itself......will be over run by growing arab population in a few years.


----------



## nadirkahn

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> No need to attack isra hell.... its going to die itself......will be over run by growing arab population in a few years.



he is not a jew cause jew believes in God one God...
He is not a pissraeli too...
searching his ip address and then give some rip..


----------



## Jigs

Turkish PM speaks.

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## nadirkahn

adir said:


> you will not attack us:
> 1)israel is not greece or pkk
> 2)you will be baned from nato
> 3)you will say baby to eu
> 4)usa will stop support you and also you can say baby f35 and other milatry wepons that turkey want.
> 5)you cannot attack us from the air we have the srongest air-force in the area.
> 6)even if you have a strong navy it cannot do noting to israel cost we have also navy and also the airforce will help our navy.
> 7)If you will be in hamass and hizballah side and you will sand troops to syria all the world will be aginst you.
> chapish?



tell me the name of moses brother,,,and the last pharoah,,,,,who is solomon....if you are a jew...


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## Vande Mataram

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> No need to attack isra hell.... its going to die itself......will be over run by growing arab population in a few years.



Sir, population doesn't mean anything.

The US is only 300 million.
The rest of the world is 6 billion 

Jews are only 12 million.
Muslims are 1.2 billion.

I guess you see what I mean?
The state of Israel will always be protected by USA (well, unless Israel did something stupid then Uncle Sam won't back up)


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## Thomas

Turkey is not going to end it's relationship with Israel. In fact the Israeli defense minister and his counter part in Turkey. Spoke today and agreed their relationship would continue.

FOXNews.com - Israel to Deport Gaza Activists After Increased Pressure

*"There were signs, however, that the long-term strategic partnership between Israel and Turkey -- the Jewish state's most important Muslim ally -- would endure.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak spoke to his Turkish counterpart Tuesday, and they agreed the raid wouldn't affect weapons deals, defense officials said. Among them is the planned delivery to Turkey of $183 million in Israeli drones this summer. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were discussing sensitive military ties."*

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Vande Mataram said:


> Sir, population doesn't mean anything.
> 
> The US is only 300 million.
> The rest of the world is 6 billion
> 
> Jews are only 12 million.
> Muslims are 1.2 billion.
> 
> I guess you see what I mean?
> The state of Israel will always be protected by USA (well, unless Israel did something stupid then Uncle Sam won't back up)



Lots of mistakes in ur post dear,
1)U didnt get wat i said?
The jewish population of israel is wat?3 million?and its minorities itself are 2 million?surrounded by arabs?
2)Population of muslims in 1.6 billion.
3)The growing population of arabs itself will dominate the jews.......they will bcome a minority in thier own little country?then wat?
4)I didnt get wat u mean reguarding population of muslims?


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## Vande Mataram

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Lots of mistakes in ur post dear,
> 1)U didnt get wat i said?
> The jewish population of israel is wat?3 million?and its minorities itself are 2 million?surrounded by arabs?
> 2)Population of muslims in 1.6 billion.
> 3)The growing population of arabs itself will dominate the jews.......they will bcome a minority in thier own little country?then wat?
> 4)I didnt get wat u mean reguarding population of muslims?



Nuh!
Lies!
6 Million Jews.
1 Million Muslims in Israel.

My point is, the population doesn't matter. No matter what size it is, the arabs/muslims can't dominate in Israel.

And take example the United States now. What are black guys and Mexicans doing to the country? Whites will soon become the (largest) ethnic minority (&#37; decrease in coming years) but they still dominate the country. (no offense meant)

@Muslim population.
The Muslims hate Israel with a passion (well, maybe not all) but say this forum is a sample. Majority does. But there are only 12 million jews.

With this billions hating on Israel, they haven't been able to do anything to it even, not even a finger.


@the scenario, if you don't find it valid XD I can draw an SRS of 30 Pakistani Muslims in this forum and we'll prove if they hate Israel or not (.1 alpha level)

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## Cheetah786

> Vande Mataram;899638]No one's born into a religion. Maybe your Muslim kids do into Islam,.



NO no one is born into a religion i love the way you bring islam into it but i take it 8 or 900million hindus in india were beamed down to earth as hindus cause for sure they werent born into a hindu family.

Hinduisum is older then islam yet there are muslim countries today then hindu reason more and more people converted to islam not they were born ito it.



> but actually Hitler was never a Jew in his lifetime.



i am sorry i wasnt around Hitler so couldnt tell you if he was or not.I am sure u werent born into a hindu family u chose to become one as your father pratcised other religion.



> Your religion isn't hard coded in your DNA.



Agreed

Most about Hitler has been Heavily edited by jews you can deny all u like i couldnt care less.

And i forget to see whats this has to do with Topic.


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## Cheetah786

Vande Mataram said:


> Nuh!
> Lies!
> 6 Million Jews.
> 1 Million Muslims in Israel.
> 
> My point is, the population doesn't matter. No matter what size it is, the arabs/muslims can't dominate in Israel.
> 
> And take example the United States now. What are black guys and Mexicans doing to the country? Whites will soon become the (largest) ethnic minority (% decrease in coming years) but they still dominate the country. (no offense meant)
> 
> @Muslim population.
> The Muslims hate Israel with a passion (well, maybe not all) but say this forum is a sample. Majority does. But there are only 12 million jews.
> 
> With this billions hating on Israel, they haven't been able to do anything to it even, not even a finger.
> 
> 
> @the scenario, if you don't find it valid XD I can draw an SRS of 30 Pakistani Muslims in this forum and we'll prove if they hate Israel or not (.1 alpha level)



you are a certifiable Idiot

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## Khan007

Adir is a fag who is trolling on this forum. He has no idea of how strong Turkish and Pakistani Armies are. Israel can be wiped out in minutes if it tries to attack our best friend Turkey.

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## Adwitiya

Khan007 said:


> Adir is a fag who is trolling on this forum. He has no idea of how strong Turkish and Pakistani Armies are. Israel can be wiped out in minutes if it tries to attack our best friend Turkey.




Do you wish that Pakistan should take part in armed operations against Israel or just diplomatic measures?


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## Khan007

Adwitiya said:


> Do you wish that Pakistan should take part in armed operations against Israel or just diplomatic measures?


If Israel does not abide by international laws and constantly threatens regional security then all options are on the table including a joint military action


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## Agni 5

Khan007 said:


> Adir is a fag who is trolling on this forum. He has no idea of how strong Turkish and Pakistani Armies are. Israel can be wiped out in minutes if it tries to attack our best friend Turkey.



Palestine is not your best friend? Why don't you attack.


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## Adwitiya

Khan007 said:


> If Israel does not abide by international laws and constantly threatens regional security then all options are on the table including a joint military action



no offense but dont you think that will be 
*
"Begaane ki shadi main mullah deewana"*

how many countries are ready to stand for the military action. with India on one side to defend and hostile Afghanistan will it be a wise decison? At the same time Turkey has the economy to sustain war but what about Pakistan? 

Will the Islamic world change their views about Pakistan? I dont think so. 

Pakistan being the good guy always try to fight for the muslims and the same muslims give 2 cents for Pakistan. A hell lot of problems in Pakistan are due to them.


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## Khan007

Agni 5 said:


> Palestine is not your best friend? Why don't you attack.


We have a special bond with the Palestinian people but Turkey is our closest ally in the region for we have helped each other out on different issues. As for attack on Israel, we already shot down 16 IAF planes in 1967 and 1973 and we also threatened to retaliate in 1983 and 1998 if Israel dared to violate our airspace. As for 2010, we are willing to support Turkey if it likes to retaliate against Israeli violence on the Flotilla Ship

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## Khan007

All Arab countries are in sleep mode except for Turkey, Iran and Pakistan. I admit that some countries haven't been so generous for our sacrifices but we still have the duty to defend the Muslim World kyunke Pakistan Islam ka Qila Hai

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## Marxist

*Turkey vows a "long term war" against Israel*

Turkish "agents" are to man all vessels from Turkey to Israel in the Mediterranean according to reports from the Turkish media, with armed flotillas instructed to defend Turkish ships if attacked. This new development brings closer the potential of a clash between the former allies in the southern Mediterranean Sea, with Turkey and Israel both formidable military powers.

The anger in Turkey was underlined by the Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu, who said before his meeting in Washington with the Secretary of State in the US Hillary Clinton yesterday, and compared the 9/11 attacks in New York, "Psychologically, this attack is like 9/11 for Turkey".

Davutoglu displayed a map showing that the attack took place 72 nautical miles off the coast of Israel, far beyond the 12-mile sovereign border. He said that the "Israelis believe they are above any law" but that they would be held to account by Turkey and the international community. He likened the actions of the Israeli government to "pirates off the coast of Somalia," not a civilized nation, and ridiculed Israeli claims that some in the flotilla were linked to al-Qaeda.

Reports in Cyprus have also confirmed that Turkish agents were on board the Mavi Marmara confirming the fears of the Israeli Defence Force that the vessel was not used wholly as a peace convoy but potentially used for shipping military equipment to Gaza.

Turkish anger has spilled over into public anger at the United States failure to condemn the actions of the IDF Davutoglu "We will not be silent about this," he said. "We expect the United States to show solidarity with us. . . . I am not very happy with the statements from the United States yesterday."

In London protests are still being made to the Israelis to free the forty British citizens held by the Israelis, there may be upto 19 deaths following Israel&#8217;s attack on the Mavi Marmara.

Turkey has also vowed to launch a "long-term" diplomatic war against Israel, with the recalling of its ambassador and cancelling of three military drills, highlighting a longer and much larger-scale diplomatic row. In addition Turkey is threatening to severe links with Israel over energy ties with Israel in the wake of the crisis; Turkey and Israel had studied construction of the Medstream pipeline project that would connect the two countries for gas, oil and water trade, but the worsening of relations has slowed progress on this project

www.thelondondailynews.com

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## Jigs

Khan007 said:


> All Arab countries are in sleep mode except for Turkey, Iran and Pakistan. I admit that some countries haven't been so generous for our sacrifices but we still have the duty to defend the Muslim World kyunke Pakistan Islam ka Qila Hai



Those countries that are quiet don't have the capability diplomatically to speak up nor back up anything they say. Turkey is the only one talking tough at the moment about the current issue. The rest of the world is staying far from the issue and the ones involved are sticking to their citizens returns and condemning Israel at most.


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## Frankenstein

PakistaniWarrior said:


> Quit being stupid and stop posting these types of things.
> 
> Without U.S.A. Pakistan would be nothing.



We can live without USA's help, giving few retired fighters, heli and stuff only limited to the war against terrorism isnt much of a help, if you have said that without China pakistan was nothing, then it might be acceptable,

And yeah *without USA, Israel would have never been existed*, thats the fact


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## deepak75

Jigs said:


> Those countries that are quiet don't have the capability diplomatically to speak up nor back up anything they say. Turkey is the only one talking tough at the moment about the current issue. The rest of the world is staying far from the issue and the ones involved are sticking to their citizens returns and condemning Israel at most.



The Arabs are not raising the crescendo because that will only be counter productive. And of course Turkey will be most pissed off. Afterall it was the Turkish Right Wingers Club's idea to send the boats.

Now with the government in a spot, they have to raise the rhetoric level otherwise the government will look like a loser for the Muslim population.

Also, it is now the perfect setting for Ergodan to ensure his re-election plan is successful riding the religious polarization occuring in Turkey.

The only thing is to see how far Turkey will raise the rhetoric on this incident before they find it difficult to chase words with actions!!!! And finally what actions will it follow up with!!!!

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## Jigs

deepak75 said:


> The Arabs are not raising the crescendo because that will only be counter productive. And of course Turkey will be most pissed off. Afterall it was the Turkish Right Wingers Club's idea to send the boats.
> 
> Now with the government in a spot, they have to raise the rhetoric level otherwise the government will look like a loser for the Muslim population.
> 
> Also, it is now the perfect setting for Ergodan to ensure his re-election plan is successful riding the religious polarization occuring in Turkey.
> 
> The only thing is to see how far Turkey will raise the rhetoric on this incident before they find it difficult to chase words with actions!!!! And finally what actions will it follow up with!!!!



Turkey won't provoke anything. We know how to play our cards. If the new convoys are escorted by naval ships you can bet they won't cross into Israel waters. If Israel decides to react before that it would be against the law once again and would give Turkey full rights to take military action against Israel. Which would one force Israel to lift the blockade or two go to war over it which risking would be insane for Israel.


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## deepak75

Jigs said:


> Turkey won't provoke anything. We know how to play our cards. If the new convoys are escorted by naval ships you can bet they won't cross into Israel waters. If Israel decides to react before that it would be against the law once again and would give Turkey full rights to take military action against Israel. Which would one force Israel to lift the blockade or two go to war over it which risking would be insane for Israel.



Whether or not Turkey knows how to "play the cards" will depend on what objective/s is/are sought to be achieved.

What do you think are the objectives in this Turkish approach?


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## psychedelic_renegade

> Turkey won't provoke anything. We know how to play our cards. If the new convoys are escorted by naval ships you can bet they won't cross into Israel waters. If Israel decides to react before that it would be against the law once again and would give Turkey full rights to take military action against Israel. Which would one force Israel to lift the blockade or two go to war over it which risking would be insane for Israel.



Well the problem is Israel as we know it extremist state. It will go to any length to defend what they think of their own. Middle-East will be in trouble in any case.

It's intriguing that turkey aligning herself to Arab world rather than her historical alignment towards Europe. It can change the world politics as we know it now.


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## psychedelic_renegade

> What do you think are the objectives in this Turkish approach?



I think the objective necessarily is to make herself more credible to Arab world, a move that confirms it's possible alignment to Arabs. Palestine problem isn't something new, Turkey didn't give two hoots till now.


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## Jigs

deepak75 said:


> Whether or not Turkey knows how to "play the cards" will depend on what objective/s is/are sought to be achieved.
> 
> What do you think are the objectives in this Turkish approach?



Force a blockade lift. That seems like the most obvious. Israel is already losing on the world stage. As more and more ships start heading for Gaza decisions would have to be made on the Israeli side. All Turkey has to do is keep sending more ships off Cyprus. Also if other places start sending ships it would make it even worse for Israel. It could actually lift the blockade pretty fast.


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## Ahmad

I have always admired turkey(with some exception of criticizm for some specific issues) and respected them, then why not now!! Iranians have courage but they lack diplomacy, but you guys have courage as well as deplomacy.


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## Jigs

psychedelic_renegade said:


> I think the objective necessarily is to make herself more credible to Arab world, a move that confirms it's possible alignment to Arabs. Palestine problem isn't something new, Turkey didn't give two hoots till now.



That is false you forget that the biggest protest against the Gaza bombings came for Turkey. Then it got worse with the whole Davos thing. 

This was just last year.


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## psychedelic_renegade

> That is false you forget that the biggest protest against the Gaza bombings came for Turkey. Then it got worse with the whole Davos thing.
> 
> This was just last year.



Yeah that's what I'm saying that Turkey getting involved in this issue only in recent times. Don't you think it marks a possible alignment of Turkey to Arab world?


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## zavis2003

i am a turk and proud to be that 


go turkey go


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## Jigs

psychedelic_renegade said:


> Yeah that's what I'm saying that Turkey getting involved in this issue only in recent times. Don't you think it marks a possible alignment of Turkey to Arab world?



It could but at the same time both the president and PM have met with Obama many times before this. I think it could be less of an alignment and more of a projection of Turkish foreign affairs in the ME.

Oh and you have to understand that Turkey was modding the meetings between Syria and Israel. After that Gaza bombing it went to **** which pissed Turkey off since progress was being made till the bombings happened. Also the same thing happened with the U.S. trying to work with Israel then the new settlements were announced which made the U.S. VP angry.


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## zavis2003

pandamonkey said:


> has the indian goverment condemded the attacks????????



how indian govt can condemn the attack 

it has the same policies as that of israel 

both are zionists


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## Evil Flare

Vande Mataram said:


> Jews are only 12 million.
> Muslims are 1.2 billion.




its 1.67 Billion ....


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## Speeder 2

*Israel should lead investigation into attack on Gaza flotilla, says US*


The United States has blocked demands at the UN security council for an international inquiry into Israel's assault on the Turkish ship carrying aid to Gaza that left nine pro-Palestinian activists dead.

A compromise statement instead calls for an impartial investigation which Washington indicated could be carried out by Israel.

Turkey pressed for the security council to launch an investigation similar to Richard Goldstone's inquiry into last year's fighting in Gaza which prompted protests from Israel when it concluded that Israel and Hamas were probably guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Ankara wanted the investigation into the raid on the Mavi Marmara to result in the prosecution of officials responsible for the assault and the payment of compensation to the victims.

But in hours of diplomatic wrangling, *the US blocked the move and instead forced a statement that called for "a prompt, impartial, credible and transparent investigation conforming to international standards". * The US representative at the security council discussions, Alejandro Wolff, indicated that *Washington would be satisfied with Israel investigating itself *when he called for it to undertake a credible investigation.

The Israeli government is certain to launch its own inquiry in part as a response to domestic criticism that its forces were ill-prepared for the resistance they met on the ship. But any self-inquiry is likely to be met with the same scepticism beyond Israel's borders that met its investigations into last year's Gaza war and its 2006 invasion of Lebanon which criticised aspects of the handling of the operations but did not challenge the underlying claim that they were essential for Israel's security.

*The Americans also blocked criticism of Israel for violating international law by assaulting a ship in international waters* in the security council statement proposed by Turkey, the Palestinians and Arab nations.

The US instead forced a broader statement that condemned "those acts which resulted in the loss" of life.

However, the security council statement did criticise Israel's siege of Gaza as "not sustainable" and called for a "sustained and regular flow of goods and people to Gaza, as well as unimpeded provision and distribution of humanitarian assistance throughout Gaza".

Turkey's foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, called the raid on the Mavi Marmara "tantamount to banditry and piracy; it is murder conducted by a state".

The French ambassador to the UN, Gerard Araud, said "there was disproportionate use of force and a level of violence which nothing justifies and which we condemn".

*Wolff told the security council that the organisers of the flotilla had been irresponsible *in trying to deliver aid by sea in the face of the Israeli blockade.



Israel should lead investigation into attack on Gaza flotilla, says US | World news | The Guardian



*You gonna be fcuking joking!
*


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## gurjot

zavis2003 said:


> how indian govt can condemn the attack
> 
> it has the same policies as that of israel
> 
> both are zionists



if we would have the same policies,then the geographic position of the south asia would have been different


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## mjnaushad

> Israel should lead investigation into attack on Gaza flotilla, says US



That would be clean and clear......


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## Ahmad

mjnaushad said:


> That would be clean and clear......



yes i saw that too. they are so shameless and hypocritical.


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## psychedelic_renegade

> how indian govt can condemn the attack
> 
> it has the same policies as that of israel
> 
> both are zionists



Do not want to go off topic, but GoI is one of the major aid provider to Palestine unlike some country who can only think of war and annihilation. And also GoI voted for Palestine whenever there is motion for the cause in UN. Don't get too worked up in online forums.

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## deepak75

Jigs said:


> Force a blockade lift. That seems like the most obvious.



Then why did Turkey denounce Hamas for the illegal takeover which in effect is the reason for this continuing blockade. Has anything changed? Has Hamas retrenched? NO.

How about the reason being more domestic politics than any new found love for the Palestinians? Possibly a more religious tinge to the current socio-political fabric?



Jigs said:


> Israel is already losing on the world stage. As more and more ships start heading for Gaza decisions would have to be made on the Israeli side. All Turkey has to do is keep sending more ships off Cyprus. Also if other places start sending ships it would make it even worse for Israel. It could actually lift the blockade pretty fast.



But I thought that the decision from the Israeli side on this subject has been crystal clear since 2007!! This was not the first incident with an aid boat in this regard.

And it was not an effort backed by the Turkish government. It was an effort from the right wingers a.k.a the religious extremists.

In any case, do you really think that if Turkey sends the Navy then Israel will allow the aid boats to go thru?

I mean it was a provokation and both hands involved are burnt. The risk-return is adverse for Turkey in following this up. What do you think?


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## Jigs

deepak75 said:


> Then why did Turkey denounce Hamas for the illegal takeover which in effect is the reason for this continuing blockade. Has anything changed? Has Hamas retrenched? NO.
> 
> How about the reason being more domestic politics than any new found love for the Palestinians? Possibly a more religious tinge to the current socio-political fabric?
> 
> 
> 
> But I thought that the decision from the Israeli side on this subject has been crystal clear since 2007!! This was not the first incident with an aid boat in this regard.
> 
> And it was not an effort backed by the Turkish government. It was an effort from the right wingers a.k.a the religious extremists.
> 
> In any case, do you really think that if Turkey sends the Navy then Israel will allow the aid boats to go thru?
> 
> I mean it was a provokation and both hands involved are burnt. The risk-return is adverse for Turkey in following this up. What do you think?



I don't see why they wouldn't taking action against them would be a bad move with the navy there. Does Israel really think they could handle a military conflict with Turkey ? Do you think they would risk that ?


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## gambit

So it looks like Turkey is going to be like Iran, meddling in the internal affairs of another state via proxy. If the EU will continue to exist, may be Turkey could kiss that membership good bye.


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## gambit

Jigs said:


> I don't see why they wouldn't taking action against them would be a bad move with the navy there. Does Israel really think they could handle a military conflict with Turkey ? Do you think they would risk that ?


The question should be the other way around: Can the Turk Navy handle the Israeli Navy? It is Turkey who is trying to suck up to the Arabs that is trying to provoke Israel. Israel have no need to provoke Turkey into a war. All Israel has to do is wait and see if Turkey is willing to violate Israeli territorial waters with a Turkish Navy ship.


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## deepak75

Jigs said:


> I don't see why they wouldn't taking action against them would be a bad move with the navy there. Does Israel really think they could handle a military conflict with Turkey ? Do you think they would risk that ?



You have to look at it this way. Israel is not sending its boats to a matter that is a thorn to Turkey. Say for example, they are not sending boats to Cyprus.

It is Turkey that you are thinking will send the navy to disrupt the blockade. So you would anyway expect Israel to react and resist. Agressor will be the Turkish Navy and not the other way round specially with the clearly stated positions.....

So will Turkey risk a conflict situation for a cause to which they have not shown any great love till recent times and a cause which is more motivating for internal domestic political purposes rather than any international supremacy objective?

Who wins what is a different matter. The point is, will Turkey risk a conflict by actively pursuing it (sending navy)?


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## Jigs

gambit said:


> The question should be the other way around: Can the Turk Navy handle the Israeli Navy? It is Turkey who is trying to suck up to the Arabs that is trying to provoke Israel. Israel have no need to provoke Turkey into a war. All Israel has to do is wait and see if Turkey is willing to violate Israeli territorial waters with a Turkish Navy ship.



I suggest you investigate that before asking the question because the answer is there. Also refer to older post on the Turkish navy violating Israeli waters. They won't.

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## SpArK

*Turkey sends planes for activists*


Turkey sends planes for activists - Europe - Al Jazeera English







Turkey has sent three planes to Israel to bring back hundreds of activists detained after a deadly raid on their aid flotilla to Gaza.

At least four Turks were killed when Israeli troops stormed a convoy of ships in international waters on Monday, sparking angry protests in the Muslim-majority nation.

"Our objective is to bring back everybody as well as the bodies," a Turkish diplomat told the AFP agency on Wednesday.

Some 350 activists will be sent back to Istanbul on Turkish aircraft, while around 20 injured people will return via Ankara on ambulance planes, Turkey's capital.

The Turkish Red Crescent said one national, currently in intensive care after surgery in a Tel Aviv hospital, would stay there for several more days.

Strained ties

Relations between Turkey and Israel deteriorated rapidly following the deadly raid, with most of the bloodshed occurring on the Mavi Marmara, a Turkish-flagged ship carrying hundreds of pro-Palestinian activists.

State media reported on Wednesday that Turkey's justice ministry is considering legal action against Israel.

Officials are looking into both domestic and international law to see what action might be undertaken after Monday's operation in international waters, a report by the Anatolia news agency said.

It comes a day after Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Turkey's prime minister, called for Israel to be "punished" for its "bloody massacre".

"It is no longer possible to cover up or ignore Israel's lawlessness. It is time for the international community to say 'enough is enough'," he said.

Thousands of Turks staged two days of protests across the country denouncing the action.

Some members of Turkey's Jewish community say they fear that anger over the flotilla deaths will lead to a rise in anti-Semitism in the nation.

"We are definitely worried, because that [the anger in Turkey] can turn very easily to anti-Semitism," Ivo Molinas, the editor in chief of the weekly Istanbul-based publication Shalom, said.

"The rhetoric used by the prime minister has been very radical," Molinas, a member of the 20,000-member Jewish community residing in Turkey, added.

Turkey says it has beefed up security to protect its Jewish minority, while Israel has ordered families of Israeli diplomats out of Turkey.

Besir Atalay, the Turkish interior minister, said security has been stepped up at 20 points alone in Istanbul, which has several synagogues and centres.

Turkey became Israel's chief regional ally when the two signed a military co-operation deal in 1996.

But relations have soured since Israel's devastating war on Gaza last year amid criticism from Erdogan's government.


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## Jigs

deepak75 said:


> You have to look at it this way. Israel is not sending its boats to a matter that is a thorn to Turkey. Say for example, they are not sending boats to Cyprus.
> 
> It is Turkey that you are thinking will send the navy to disrupt the blockade. So you would anyway expect Israel to react and resist. Agressor will be the Turkish Navy and not the other way round specially with the clearly stated positions.....
> 
> So will Turkey risk a conflict situation for a cause to which they have not shown any great love till recent times and a cause which is more motivating for internal domestic political purposes rather than any international supremacy objective?
> 
> Who wins what is a different matter. The point is, will Turkey risk a conflict by actively pursuing it (sending navy)?



Who knows. Best to ask that to &#304;lker Ba&#351;bu&#287; and Erdogan. Who knows what they are planing. Best to wait this week out and see what all happens.


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## gambit

Jigs said:


> Turkey won't provoke anything. We know how to play our cards. If the new convoys are escorted by naval ships you can bet they won't cross into Israel waters. If Israel decides to react before that it would be against the law once again and would give Turkey full rights to take military action against Israel. Which would one force Israel to lift the blockade or two go to war over it which risking would be insane for Israel.


This make no sense. If Turkey is going to provide armed naval escorts to the next 'aid' fleet, why stop at the border? All Israel has to do is wait until this 'aid' fleet crosses into Israeli territorial waters and board them. How would that make Turkey's image to the Arabs, whom Turkey is trying to suck up? By providing armed naval escorts, Turkey is saying to the world that "We are taking responsibility for the group's safety. But only up to a point."


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> So it looks like Turkey is going to be like *US*, meddling in the internal affairs of another state *directly* or and also via proxy. If the EU will continue to exist, may be Turkey could kiss that membership good bye.




Fixed, now it makes more scene.

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## gambit

Jigs said:


> I suggest you investigate that before asking the question because the answer is there. Also refer to older post on the Turkish navy violating Israeli waters. *They won't.*


Then any talk of providing armed naval escorts is nothing more than bluster.


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## psychedelic_renegade

> I don't see why they wouldn't taking action against them would be a bad move with the navy there. Does Israel really think they could handle a military conflict with Turkey ? Do you think they would risk that ?



Not indulging in any argument of who is good or bad, but if you follow the trend, Israel is not a country who's going to be intimidated by any force to defend the territory what *they * think of their own. Specially when she has uncle sam at her side.


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## SpArK

*Turkey and the West: the end of a partnership?*

Turkey and the West: the end of a partnership? | EurActiv



Turkey's agreement with Iran to store low-enriched uranium in return for fuel rods for use in a medical research reactor suggests that Ankara is disillusioned with Europe and that Turkey's post-war partnership with the West may be coming to an end, writes Sinan Ülgen, chairman of the Centre for Economics and Foreign Policy Studies (EDAM) in Istanbul.

This commentary was authored by Sinan Ülgen of EDAM.

*''Turkey has won little, if any, praise from others in the transatlantic alliance for brokering  along with Brazil  a deal that will see Iran ship 1,200 kilogrammes of low-enriched uranium to Turkey for storage in return for fuel rods for use in a medical research reactor.
*
At first glance, that reaction may seem churlish. After all, the deal made public on 17 May is very similar to one that the five permanent members of the UN Security Council plus Germany offered Iran in October.

But the reaction in Western capitals to this major diplomatic coup for Ankara and Brasilia is understandable. Firstly, though the terms of the two deals are very similar, the six-month interval has fundamentally altered the expected pay-offs.

If Tehran had accepted the same terms in October, it would have had to part with nearly 80% of its low-enriched uranium (LEU), leaving it with too little uranium to manufacture a nuclear weapon.

*Now, thanks to six extra months of its enrichment programme, Iran has almost twice the amount of LEU. It can now give up 1,200 kilogrammes of fissile material and still have enough for a nuclear bomb.*

Secondly, the deal does not really address the core concern of the international community: Tehran has not committed itself to increase transparency about its nuclear programme or to halt enrichment.

More importantly, however, the timing of the trilateral deal is at odds with US-led efforts. A fragile consensus was being forged in the UN Security Council in favour of a new round of sanctions against Iran; what Ankara and Brasilia have done is to considerably weaken the rationale of and the campaign for sanctions.

That, in turn, stokes fears that Iran will continue to resist any other deal that would address the more troubling aspects of its nuclear programme.

Why has Turkey taken the risk of allowing Iran the benefit of doubt and, thereby, of pitting itself against its traditional allies?

This is more than a matter of aversion to new sanctions, though Turkish leaders have made clear their opposition. Ankara has long pleaded for more time for diplomatic engagement with Iran; it now has a result that can be seen as vindicating its strategy.

But there is another reason for this gamble on Turkey's part, one directly related to the EU.

The deal with Iran can be seen as testament to the fundamental changes in Turkish foreign policy introduced by the Justice and Development (AK) party. The new Turkey wants to be and is acting as a regional power with a global agenda. Its overarching vision is no longer one of Turkey as a country fully integrated with the West and instinctively aligned with the West.

The emerging understanding is that Turkey is a regional power and an agenda-setter, and that it can  and should  stand up to the West in pursuit of that role.

This shift in thinking is a consequence of a complex interplay of factors, ranging from the policy preferences of a ruling party that traces its roots to political Islam, through robust economic growth and to the emergence of new regional powers in the international system.

The greatest influence, though, is disillusionment with Europe. Ankara feels frustrated in its dealings with Brussels and believes that EU accession is becoming increasingly elusive, given the unresolved Cyprus dispute and continued questioning of Turkey's eligibility by EU leaders such as France's Nicolas Sarkozy. The euro zone's economic difficulties further undermine the EU's attractiveness.

As a result, the post-war partnership between Turkey and the West may be coming to an end. Devoid of the real prospect of EU membership, Turkey's priority is to establish its own role as a regional power, preferably but not necessarily with the support of the West.''


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> Fixed, now it makes more scene.


Good...Now Turkey is seen to be just like US...


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## Ahmad

psychedelic_renegade said:


> Not indulging in any argument of who is good or bad, but if you follow the trend, Israel is not a country who's going to be intimidated by any force to defend the territory what *they * think of their own. *Specially when she has uncle sam at her side*.



that is the whole point.


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## SpArK

*Turkey sees no impact on Israel drone delivery*

ANKARA: Turkey&#8217;s Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul said on Tuesday a diplomatic crisis with Israel after the Jewish state stormed a Turkish-backed aid convoy will not affect the planned delivery of Israel-made Heron drones to Turkey. Israel&#8217;s long-time Muslim ally Turkey has recalled its envoy to Israel and cancelled joint military exercises after Israeli marines raided an aid flotilla bound for Gaza on Monday. Earlier this year, the two countries, which have a close military alliance, wrapped up the purchase of 10 Heron drones in a deal worth $180 million. ReutersDaily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Jigs

gambit said:


> This make no sense. If Turkey is going to provide armed naval escorts to the next 'aid' fleet, why stop at the border? All Israel has to do is wait until this 'aid' fleet crosses into Israeli territorial waters and board them. How would that make Turkey's image to the Arabs, whom Turkey is trying to suck up? By providing armed naval escorts, Turkey is saying to the world that "We are taking responsibility for the group's safety. But only up to a point."



Because if that is done then Israel would have the right to attack it which would be pointless. The Naval escorts would be nothing more then a provoking/pressure tool. Now if they get attacked in international waters then that is a different story.


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## Aslan

psychedelic_renegade said:


> Not indulging in any argument of who is good or bad, but if you follow the trend, Israel is not a country who's going to be intimidated by any force to defend the territory what *they * think of their own. Specially when she has uncle sam at her side.



Well the reasons the israelies dont get intimidated is that they know that the US is going to support each and every illegal move of theirs. No matter how many innocents they kill, it does not matter that they are occupying lands illegally. It dont even matter they have forced the people to live like animals in Gaza. They will do it and will carry on doing it till they have undisputed US support. So the bottom line is that all that happens to the US in its relations to others and with people being angry it center of gravity is israel. They are the reason that the US suffers such a bad name in the ME. Do they care, no does it make a difference to them, probably not. But does it have repercussion yes.


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## Jigs

BENNY said:


> *Turkey sees no impact on Israel drone delivery*
> 
> ANKARA: Turkeys Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul said on Tuesday a diplomatic crisis with Israel after the Jewish state stormed a Turkish-backed aid convoy will not affect the planned delivery of Israel-made Heron drones to Turkey. Israels long-time Muslim ally Turkey has recalled its envoy to Israel and cancelled joint military exercises after Israeli marines raided an aid flotilla bound for Gaza on Monday. Earlier this year, the two countries, which have a close military alliance, wrapped up the purchase of 10 Heron drones in a deal worth $180 million. ReutersDaily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan



The deal was already signed before this so the last 4 will be delivered.


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## SpArK

*Indian-origin aid worker on ship attacked by Israel*


Indian-origin aid worker on ship attacked by Israel - Indians Abroad - World - The Times of India

LONDON: An Indian-origin British aid worker is on the ship that was part of the Gaza-bound flotilla attacked by Israel. His family, anxiously waiting for news about his whereabouts, says it was as though their worst nightmares were coming true.

Hours before the troops moved in on Monday, Ismail Adam Patel, an optician based in the Oadby area of Leicester, posted a video on YouTube describing how they were surrounded by Israeli navy forces.

He can be seen standing on deck with a lifejacket and saying: "At the moment, we can see three frigates and a helicopter is hovering overhead, despite the fact we are in international waters, some 100 miles from the shores of Israel. We call upon everybody in Britain to help us to raise the alarm and get our government to intervene."

Patel is one of 28 British citizens who boarded the flotilla in Cyprus Sunday. It was carrying humanitarian supplies to the Gaza strip.

He is also the chairman of pro-Palestinian organisation Friends of Al Aqsa, based in Leicester.

Patel's brother Shockat told the Leicester Mercury newspaper: "When we heard what had happened it was as though our worst nightmares were coming true.

"Before he left we hoped everything would go smoothly but there was always a risk it could go wrong."

Suleman Nagdi, spokesman for Leicestershire Federation of Muslim Organisations, said: "We are trying to do everything practically possible to help the family. My fear is those who are injured will be taken into custody. No contact has been made with Ismail since midnight last night, and watching the scenes on TV of the barbaric actions of the Israeli army only intensifies the concern for his welfare felt by his family."

Edward Garnier, MP from Harborough adjoining Leicester, added: "I have spoken to two foreign office ministers and have passed on his details. I know they are actively checking to see if he is hurt or not. I spoke to him before his trip and he sent me messages up until he got on the flotilla."

In London, pro-Palestinian campaigners staged a blockade near Whitehall shouting "Stop Israel's War Crimes in Gaza" and spoke of their fears about the fate of British citizens and others aboard the flotilla.

Hundreds of activists blocked Whitehall shouting "Free Palestine" and carried flags and banners with slogans such as "Stop Israel's War Crimes in Gaza" and "End the Criminal Siege of Gaza".

The convoy of six ships had about 600 volunteers on board and the activists were trying to defy a blockade imposed by Israel after Hamas took power in Gaza in 2007.


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## gambit

Jigs said:


> Because if that is done then Israel would have the right to attack it which would be pointless. The Naval escorts would be nothing more then a provoking/pressure tool. Now if they get attacked in international waters then that is a different story.


To 'pressure' is also to threaten. But in order for the threat to have some measure of induced fear into the target of the threat, there must be a willingness to follow through with the threat. For Turkey to follow through, Turkey must be willing to violate Israeli territorial waters, else escorting the next 'aid' fleet will be seen, not as pressure or threat, but empty gesture, when the Turkish Navy is seen by the Arabs standing by impotent while the Israeli Navy board the next 'aid' ship.


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## SpArK

Under fire for attacking aid flotilla, Israel drags India, Pak into row

Under fire for attacking aid flotilla, Israel drags India, Pak into row - Middle East - World - The Times of India

JERUSALEM: In an unusual step, Israel, which is facing global criticism for attacking an aid flotilla, has said violent incidents in countries like *India and Pakistan* in the past one month which claimed 500 lives have been "ignored" while it is being condemned for its "unmistakably defensive actions".

Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman "reminded" the UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon that in the past month alone 500 people were killed in various incidents in Thailand, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq and India, a Foreign Ministry statement said.

"While the international community remained silent and passive, and generally ignored the occurences, Israel is being condemned for unmistakably defensive actions," a Foreign Ministry statement quoted Lieberman as saying.


This is the first time that Israel has dragged India into a controversy. New Delhi has already condemned the Israeli attack on the aid flotilla to the Gaza Strip saying there was no justification for indiscriminate use of force.

He is understood to have told Ban that the incident related to Gaza aid flotilla was about the "basic right of Israeli soldiers to defend themselves against an attack by a gang of thugs and terror supporters who had prepared clubs, metal crowbars and knives in advance of confrontation."

Lieberman expressed "regret" at the behaviour of the international community.

"All of Israel's proposals to the Turkish government to transfer the humanitarian aid in an orderly manner were rejected by flottila's organisers," Lieberman was quoted as saying.

He also accused activists participating in the mission of intentionally trying to breach Israel's sovereignty and creating "provocation that would cause bloodshed".

In an emergency session yesterday, the UN Security Council called for an investigation into Israel's deadly commando raid on ships taking humanitarian aid to the Gaza Strip on Monday, condemning the act that resulted in the loss of at least nine lives.

"... the Security Council resolution is unacceptable and contributes nothing to the promotion of peace and stability in the Middle East," Lieberman said.


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## Emperor Palpatine

gambit said:


> To 'pressure' is also to threaten. But in order for the threat to have some measure of induced fear into the target of the threat, there must be a willingness to follow through with the threat. For Turkey to follow through, Turkey must be willing to violate Israeli territorial waters, else escorting the next 'aid' fleet will be seen, not as pressure or threat, but empty gesture, when the Turkish Navy is seen by the Arabs standing by impotent while the Israeli Navy board the next 'aid' ship.



Now am really eager to see if Turkey will Violate Israeli waters ..

WW3 in the making....


Considering so many Nations are involved in this Row, if a War does start will it spread like fire ?


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## SpArK

*India not convinced by Israel's action*


India not convinced by Israel's action - dnaindia.com


New Delhi: *After India joined the international condemnation of the strong arm tactics of the Israeli stateagainst the storming of the humanitarian flotilla carrying aid to the embargoed civilians of Gaza, the Israeli embassy on Tuesday went into damage control mode.*

It sent out statements questioning the bonafides of some of the charitable groups involved in the campaign to take aid to the long suffering civilians of Gaza.

But despite Israelis attempts to justify its military action, few in India are willing to buy that line. In fact, the Indian government for the first time in many years came out with a strong statement against Israel. *Demonstrations are also being organised in Delhi and other Indian cities to condemn the brutal action.*

Israel now claims that the Turkish Insani Yardin Vakfi (IHH) or Humanitarian Relief Fund, a charitable outfit which among others have organised the flotilla has radical Islamic roots and is close to Hamas.

In recent years it has prominently supported Hamas (through the Union of Good). In addition, in the past the IHH provided logistical support and funding to global jihad networks, the Israeli embassy said, fishingout past reports to justify Israeli action.

The embassy also quoted a 2006study by an American researcher Evan Kohlman, working in the Danish Institute for International Studies to provethat in the pastthe Turkish IHH had connections with al Qaeda and global jihad operatives.

Israel also claims that Turkish charitys orientation is radical-Islamic and anti-Western, and it is close to the Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas parent movement).


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## gambit

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Now am really eager to see if Turkey will Violate Israeli waters ..
> 
> WW3 in the making....


Odds are even that Turkey, in trying to suck up to the Arabs, will provoke a regional war.


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## Jigs

gambit said:


> To 'pressure' is also to threaten. But in order for the threat to have some measure of induced fear into the target of the threat, there must be a willingness to follow through with the threat. For Turkey to follow through, Turkey must be willing to violate Israeli territorial waters, else escorting the next 'aid' fleet will be seen, not as pressure or threat, but empty gesture, when the Turkish Navy is seen by the Arabs standing by impotent while the Israeli Navy board the next 'aid' ship.



Sorry but Turkey doesn't do Illegal acts. That is Israel's expertise.

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## Spring Onion

BENNY said:


> *India not convinced by Israel's action*
> 
> 
> *Demonstrations are also being organised in Delhi and other Indian cities to condemn the brutal action.*
> 
> ).



The demonstrations were announced by Islamic organisations in India.

we still wait to hear condemnation by other groups

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## Jigs

gambit said:


> Odds are even that Turkey, in trying to suck up to the Arabs, will provoke a regional war.



We are trying to help Gaza the Arab states are of minor concern since they have no influence in any matter period. Turkey does.

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## Ganga

gambit said:


> To 'pressure' is also to threaten. But in order for the threat to have some measure of induced fear into the target of the threat, there must be a willingness to follow through with the threat. For Turkey to follow through, Turkey must be willing to violate Israeli territorial waters, else escorting the next 'aid' fleet will be seen, not as pressure or threat, but empty gesture, when the Turkish Navy is seen by the Arabs standing by impotent while the Israeli Navy board the next 'aid' ship.



Actually turkey doesnot have to send a navy.The isrealis will make sure that no one gets killed onboard the ships next time.At the moment the whole world is against Isreal and they would not want to complicate things even more.I will not be suprised if they actually allow the next batch ships to dock at Gaza itself.


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## deepak75

Jana said:


> The demonstrations were announced by Islamic organisations in India.
> 
> we still wait to hear condemnation by other groups




Did you not read that GoI has denounced the Israeli actions? What is the ambiguity once the GoI has officially condemned the incident? Why do separate groups have to individually denounce the indicident compulsively? Afterall the GoI speaks for the nation.


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## gambit

Ganga said:


> Actually turkey doesnot have to send a navy.The isrealis will make sure that no one gets killed onboard the ships next time.At the moment the whole world is against Isreal and they would not want to complicate things even more.I will not be suprised if they actually allow the next batch ships to dock at Gaza itself.


Guess who are the recipients of the violence of those who protested against Israel? Not Israel but the governments and citizenries of the many countries.


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## SpArK

*A Zionist-Apartheid dirty deal*
Wednesday, June 02, 2010
Praful Bidwai

A Zionist-Apartheid dirty deal

*As the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference concludes in New York, the western powers led by the United States are focussing on west Asia, because they want Iran to freeze its nuclear activities. But inevitably, attention is getting riveted on Israel, the region's sole nuclear weapons power.*

Against this backdrop comes the sensational disclosure from the just-released book, The Unspoken Alliance: Israel's Secret Relationship with Apartheid South Africa, that *Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to white-racist, apartheid South Africa in 1975*, and the two states closely coordinated their military programmes and strategic approaches.

This expose is based on "top secret" minutes of meetings between senior South African and Israeli officials accessed by the author, US-based scholar Sasha Pulakow-Suransky. The minutes were recently declassified by the South African government, despite Israel's strong opposition. The disclosure will seriously embarrass Israel, whose intransigence against ending its illegal occupation of Palestine and halting settlements is increasingly isolating it internationally and in western public opinion.

The book says South Africa's defence minister P W Botha asked for nuclear warheads when he met Shimon Peres, Israel's defence minister and now its president, who agreed to supply them "in three sizes". *They signed a wide-ranging agreement on bilateral military relations, with a clause stipulating that its "very existence" must remain secret.* The military relations were crucial. Israel generously supplied South Africa arms when it faced international economic-military sanctions. South Africa is believed to have made at least six nuclear weapons, but destroyed them before apartheid ended.

The book drives one more stake into Israel's "nuclear ambiguity" policy of neither confirming nor denying nuclear weapons possession. Independent sources, including *Israeli whistleblower Mordechai Vanunu, confirm that Israel has 200 to 300 nuclear warheads. *The book also demolishes Israel's claim that it's a "responsible" state which wouldn't use nuclear weapons even if it had them -- unlike Iran, which might well use them or transfer them to Hezbollah. But a nation which not only helped pariah apartheid South Africa overcome richly-deserved international sanctions, but also supplied it mass-destruction weapons, cannot be "responsible". *South Africa's military wanted nuclear weapons as a deterrent and for potential attacks upon its neighbours -- just as Israel did, and still does.
*
*No state in modern history has been more shamelessly racist, unequal, undemocratic, and inhuman than apartheid South Africa. If that was at minimum a rogue state, Zionist Israel is in the same league.* Pulakow-Suransky shows that Israeli and South African officials held crucial talks in March 1975, at which the former "formally offered to sell South Africa" some nuclear-capable Jericho missiles. Present there was South African military chief RF Armstrong whose "top secret" memorandum detailed the missiles' benefits for South Africa -- but only if they were fitted with nuclear weapons.

After the 1973 Yom Kippur war, Israel was short of uranium, of which South Africa has large reserves. Israel also needed hard currency. It got both by selling conventional weapons, and by sharing nuclear know-how with South Africa and converting some of its yellowcake (mixed oxides of uranium) into weapons-grade plutonium. The Israel&#8211;South Africa alliance was close and strategic. In 1987, Israel adopted its own sanctions against South Africa but continued with existing arms contracts worth hundreds of millions of dollars.

The alliance was based less on military imperatives than on the two leaderships' shared belief that theirs were two relatively small nations guarding "their land" and "identity" in a hostile environment. Both wanted their privileged colonial settlers to continue in power. Their self-assigned role as regional bulwarks against Communism brought them western support --until global opinion turned against apartheid. Israel forgot Nazi sympathisers' role in putting apartheid's architects into power.

*In a secret deal, South Africa lifted safeguards on 450 tonnes of yellowcake sold to Israel, in return for Israeli supplies of tritium, a nuclear weapons booster. Israel bailed out a South African politician whose bankruptcy would have scuppered the deal. These revelations expose Israel as an ultra-cynical nation culpable of nuclear proliferation.*

Yet, South Africa isn't the only country with which Israel had shady nuclear dealings. Equally implicated from the 1950s onwards were Britain and France, which clandestinely supplied it nuclear materials, including heavy water.

Israel is different from other nuclear weapons-states (NWSs). Its nuclear weapons are undeclared -- unlike those of the US, Russia, Britain, France, China, *India and Pakistan* (or of North Korea, which exploded a crude nuclear bomb in 2006 and another one last year). Israel, like India and Pakistan, hasn't signed the NPT.

However, although dubious, Israel's record of clandestine nuclear collaborations, shady deals and complicity in other countries' weapons pursuits mirrors that of the US, UK, USSR-Russia, China, India and Pakistan. They are all culpable.

India has had overt and clandestine nuclear dealings with the US, UK, Canada, the USSR, China, Russia, even Norway. India built its first bomb using CIRUS, a Canadian-designed reactor to which the US supplied heavy water. The 1974 explosion was called "peaceful", because India didn't want to be seen violating its professed commitment to nuclear disarmament or its "peaceful" use legal commitments to the US and Canada. It also lacked the stomach for more tests.

Pakistan has long collaborated with China clandestinely, which transferred nuclear weapons designs. Dr AQ Khan also pilfered centrifuge designs and suppliers' lists from the Netherlands. The Khan network's dealings with North Korea, Libya and Iran are legend. These needed the collusion of the Pakistani military which exclusively controls the nuclear weapons programme. The US turned a blind eye to Islamabad's nuclear preparations during the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan, which made Pakistan a "frontline" state. Poor, technologically primitive North Korea couldn't have made its bomb without a small Soviet-built reactor.

The point is, all NWSs are guilty of either deliberate proliferation or acting in violation of their dual-use technology commitments. Worse, they are the only nations to have used nuclear weapons and practised nuclear blackmail. So, they are totally hypocritical when they single out countries like Iran. Nuclear weapons are unacceptably dangerous in everybody's hands. Although all NWSs rationalise their nuclear arsenals via "deterrence", they have doctrines for actually using nuclear weapons against unarmed civilians. Even deterrence entails that they're in a state of readiness to use them.

The US and USSR came close to doing this during the Cold War. Even Israel contemplated doing so in 1973. Pakistan and India launched nuclear preparations during the 1999 Kargil conflict, and even more dangerously, in the 10 months-long standoff in 2001.

No government that is committed to exterminating millions of non-combatant civilians is "responsible". The current hype about "terrorist groups" acquiring nuclear material serves to legitimise the NWSs' possession of them and to fraudulently distinguish between "responsible" and "irresponsible" actors.

"Responsible NWSs" is a contradiction in terms. The greatest nuclear danger emanates from the NWSs, which seek security through nuclear terror. Non-state actors like Al Qaeda cannot build the elaborate and relatively sophisticated infrastructure that nuclear programmes need. They have even failed to clandestinely buy fissile material. Yet, so long as nuclear weapons exist and are regarded as a currency of power, both state and non-state actors will be tempted to acquire them. The only way of preventing them is to eliminate all nuclear weapons globally.


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## Spring Onion

*Turkey holds Israel to account *

For Israel, the tectonic plates shifted on Monday when its ham-fisted attempt to prevent the Freedom Flotilla from reaching Gaza blew up in its face. The fallout from its lethal commando raid on the Mavi Marmara is still spreading around the world as it scrambles to escape the consequences of a public relations disaster of the first magnitude. Judging from the enormous negative coverage the incident is receiving here in the UK and around the world, being an Israeli diplomat posted in a foreign capital would be a singularly thankless job these days.

However, reading the UN Security Council resolution that emerged after hours of tough negotiations makes it clear that Israel still has powerful friends in Washington. The watered down text reflects American anxiety to shield its ally from the much harsher language of the original draft presented by Turkey. Nevertheless, the fact that the US did not use its veto indicates a more calibrated approach towards Israel than we have witnessed in the recent past.

*Liberal public opinion &#8211; albeit a small minority in Israel &#8211; recognises the insanity of the action as well as of the blockade of Gaza. Ha&#8217;aretz today contained a number of articles condemning the raid on a ship carrying unarmed peace activists, and deploring the myopic policy that caused it. The Jerusalem Post, however, lived up to its image of the mouthpiece of jingoistic Zionists by justifying the siege of Gaza, and Israel&#8217;s right to board the ship on the high seas. In an article titled Sinking Turkey-Israeli Relations, Anat Ladipat-Firilla argues that Turkey is positioning itself as a regional power, and as a leader of Sunni Muslim countries. According to the writer, this shift in Turkish foreign policy brings it into conformity with the ideology of the ruling AK Party. He also suggests that by de-legitimising Israel, Turkey would enhance its standing in the Muslim world.*

*It is certainly true that ever since the Israeli assault on Gaza early last year that resulted in 1,400 Palestinian deaths, Turkey has been downgrading its close ties with Israel. The deterioration in relations has been marked by a cancellation of joint military exercises; now, an energy deal is under threat. However, a $180 million order to import a number of Israeli Heron drones is still in place. For Israel, this deterioration in ties would be a disaster as close military links with Turkey have been crucial to its strategic interests. Turkey has been an active mediator between Israel and Syria, and provides an important market for Israeli arms. Israeli air force pilots have trained regularly in Turkish airspace, and the armed forces of the two countries have long conducted exercises together.
*
*The reason for current Turkish fury is that the Israelis ignored the fact that the Mavi Marmara is a Turkish vessel, carrying a large number of Turks. It had been inspected at a Turkish port to make sure there were only relief goods on board, and the sponsor of the relief expedition was a well-known Turkish organisation, the IHH. Thus, the flotilla had sailed with Ankara&#8217;s blessings and encouragement. For the Israelis to behave in such a barbaric way towards a friendly country&#8217;s citizens was an own goal the Nethanyahu government must be secretly ruing.
*
Although the perception around the world is that Israel gets away with its oppression of Palestinians because of its highly effective lobby in the United States, the reality is somewhat more nuanced. It is true that after President Obama tried to pressure Tel Aviv to halt its colonisation policies in the West Bank and Jerusalem, a number of congressmen &#8211; including those from his own party &#8211; approached him to persuade him to back off, citing the congressional elections due in November. It seems these tactics have worked, at least for now. But significantly, a top American general said in testimony before a congressional committee that unquestioning support for Israel was putting the lives of US soldiers at risk. So although Washington is still strongly committed to its ally, there are important voices urging a more critical approach. Once the November elections are behind him, Obama might live up to his promise of applying pressure on Nethanyahu. According to reports, he is angry and frustrated over the appalling conditions the Gazans are living in due to the Israeli siege.

*Ultimately, there are no permanent friends or enemies in international relations, only permanent interests. Thus far, Israel has thrived by playing on Western guilt and sympathy over the Holocaust, *as well as the fact that it is the only democracy in the Middle East. Of course, the ingenuity and hard work of its people have played a large part in making it the success story it undoubtedly is. Nevertheless, the world is growing increasingly tired of the endless crises that erupt periodically as Israel maintains its tight grip over occupied land despite the obdurate resistance posed by the Palestinians.

*After this latest example of self-defeating brutality, even Israel&#8217;s friends in Europe have condemned the violence, and have called for an independent enquiry. But after a time, things will quieten down again until the next explosion. Meanwhile, it is Turkey whose moral outrage will propel this anti-Israel narrative. Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan has denounced the commando raid as state terrorism, and the Turkish foreign minister said at the UN that the Israeli action &#8216;blurred the line between the state and terrorism&#8217;.
*
As I write this, two more relief ships have set sail for Gaza. According to the Jerusalem Post, they will be met with the same kind of reception that greeted the Freedom Flotilla on Monday. Unfortunately, *the Israeli leadership have not learned any lessons from their own history: *


*in July 1947, a ship called the Exodus set sail from France with Jewish concentration camp survivors intent on breaking the British blockade of Palestine. The Exodus was intercepted in international waters and its passengers taken to Germany to be interned until they could be screened for Zionist terrorists. Many of the passengers resisted being carried ashore, and fought British soldiers with sticks and whatever came to hand. While Lt-Colonel Gregson praised the fortitude of his men in resisting the temptation to use guns despite some of them getting badly beaten, he went to write:*

*&#8220;It should be borne in mind that the guiding factor in the actions of the Jews is to gain the sympathy of the world press.&#8221;

Israel has painted itself into a corner, but lacks the capacity to say &#8216;sorry&#8217; and attempt to minimise the damage it has caused itself so unnecessarily. *

DAWN.COM | Columnists | Turkey holds Israel to account

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## Aslan

Chomsky, Gaza and Israe

What is going on at the moment with Israel? You know when it's hit the mainstream when Auckland celeb photographer Norrie Montgomery steps beyond the A list script and voices his anger on facebook - "*Israel is a rogue state and its getting worse...*"

*A couple of weeks back Israel hit the news big time when it barred Jewish American Professor Noam Chomsky from entering Palestinian Territory - The West Bank, having been invited to give a lecture at Bir Zeit University. The news of the eminent scholars detention at the Allenby Bridge and subsequently questioned for several hours by a guard whilst on a line to his superiors, travelled the main media hubs - Hindu Times, Bangkok Post, Jerusalem Post, BBC, CNN, as well as an op Ed in the New York Times and editorials in the Boston Globe and Chicago-Sun Tribune.
*
And this is an excerpt from the Editorial of one of Israel's main newspapers,* Haaretz: "By stopping the illustrious American scholar Prof. Noam Chomsky at the Allenby Bridge and barring his entry into Israel and the Palestinian authority, the Government's outrageous treatment of those with the audacity to criticize its policies has reached new heights. Israel looks like a bully who has been insulted by a superior intellect and is now trying to fight it, arrest it, and expel it."
*
Chomsky, who spent a year in Israel in a kibbutz, and like his father is fluent in Hebrew, regards himself as a friend of Israel. Nonetheless the young guard, on the phone to higher officials told the 81 year old professor *"Israel does not like what you say"*, to which the famous linguist asked him to *try and find a country that does.
*
To paraphrase the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, *is this the way in which a country that claims to be the one true democracy in the Middle East ought to behave? When Chomsky was asked if there was any other country that has barred him he replied, yes - Czechoslovakia in 1968 - i.e. under Soviet rule. The message being clear - this is precisely the sort of behaviour that you'd expect from a totalitarian regime.
*
And now up to 16 international protesters have been killed and over 60 wounded after an encounter by Israeli Defense force vessels with the free Gaza flotilla - attempting to get humanitarian supplies into Gaza. The flotilla included such crazies like 1976 Nobel peace prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators, and an elderly Holocaust survivor.

Of course the reason for the flotilla is *because there is a humanitarian crisis in the Occupied Territory - something the Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman completely denies ("There is no humanitarian crisis"). But Jewish journalist Amira Hass points out that there indeed is. The 360 square km prison of 1.5 million is, for example, stripped of pure water. Ninety per cent of the Coastal aquifer, Gaza's only water source, is unfit for human consumption. And as Hass points out, it's only thanks to UNRWA, international aid programmes, and the 'tunnel economy' that the population is not being starved.*

To quote the Haaretz newspaper again -* "One does not have to be an ardent supporter of Chomsky in order to agree with his view that Israel is behaving like South Africa in the 1960's, when it understood that it was an outcast, but thought it could solve the problem with the help of a better public relations campaign*."

Provocative yet timely sentiments. And all the more profound in that they come from inside Israel.

Wallace's Blog: Chomsky, Gaza and Israel | Back Benches | Television New Zealand | Television | TV One, TV2, TVNZ 6, TVNZ 7


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## gambit

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Considering so many Nations are involved in this Row, *if a War does start will it spread like fire ?*


No...The countries whose citizens are on those 'aid' ships, and even for those who were killed, will not get involved in a shooting fight between Turkey and Israel. I say that Turkey is in as tight a spot as Israel. Turkey was the origin point for this 'aid' fleet. Turkey protested the loudest, or among the loudest. Now the world's attention is equally on Turkey as to what the Erdogan government is going to do to back up its rhetoric just as Israel is being condemned in many corners. Anything less than war will be seen as weak and if a war does happen, no one will come to Turkey's aid.


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## Marxist

*Turkey to normalise Israel ties if Gaza blockade ends*

June 2 (Reuters) - Turkey said on Wednesday it was ready to normalise ties with Israel if the Jewish state lifts a blockade on Gaza and said "it was time calm replaces anger" in the wake of Israel's deadly raid on a Turkish-backed flotilla.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutogu, in Ankara after a visit to the United States to discuss the diplomatic crisis, also told a news conference that the future of Turkish-Israeli ties depended on Israel's attitude. Turkey recalled its ambassador to Israel following Monday's storming of Gaza bound aid ships.

Turkey to normalise Israel ties if Gaza blockade ends | Reuters


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> No...The countries whose citizens are on those 'aid' ships, and even for those who were killed, will not get involved in a shooting fight between Turkey and Israel. I say that Turkey is in as tight a spot as Israel. Turkey was the origin point for this 'aid' fleet. Turkey protested the loudest, or among the loudest. Now the world's attention is equally on Turkey as to what the Erdogan government is going to do to back up its rhetoric just as Israel is being condemned in many corners. Anything less than war will be seen as weak and if a war does happen, no one will come to Turkey's aid.



Well then you definitely dont know the crazy neighborhood that they are in.


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## Ganga

gambit said:


> No...The countries whose citizens are on those 'aid' ships, and even for those who were killed, will not get involved in a shooting fight between Turkey and Israel. I say that Turkey is in as tight a spot as Israel. Turkey was the origin point for this 'aid' fleet. Turkey protested the loudest, or among the loudest. Now the world's attention is equally on Turkey as to what the Erdogan government is going to do to back up its rhetoric just as Israel is being condemned in many corners. Anything less than war will be seen as weak and if a war does happen, *no one will come to Turkey's aid*.



No one will come to isreals aid either.


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## Ahmad

Ganga said:


> No one will come to isreals aid either.



america will back israel no matter what crimes israel comits.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> Well then you definitely dont know the crazy neighborhood that they are in.


Thanks for admitting that the Arabs are a crazy people...


----------



## SpArK

*Iran, Hamas seek global anti-Israel bloc*


Iran, Hamas seek global anti-Israel bloc









An international front to break the blockade on the Gaza Strip should be formed, Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said Tuesday in a phone conversation with Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh of Hamas, the Teheran Times reported.

This criminal action revealed the real nature of the Zionists, Ahmadinejad said, adding that now the approach of countries toward this outrageous action would be a test for their honesty.


According to the Teheran Times report *Haniyeh said that Iran is the only nation that has always been on the side of the Palestinian nation*. We should try to revive the Palestinian nations violated rights and end the siege of Gaza, he added.

On Monday, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki thanked Europe and the international community for the "harsh response" to Israel's "barbaric commando 
operation," saying Iran identified with the "shahids" who were killed in the IDF raid on the Gaza-bound flotilla.


In the days since the Navy's raid on the Gaza-bound flotilla on Monday, condemnations have been streaming in from Arab countries. Messages of carefully-couched rebuke have been coming from Israel's allies, many urging Israel to include an international element in any commission of inquiry into the incident, Israel Radio reported Wednesday.


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## Spring Onion

Ganga said:


> No one will come to isreals aid either.



US of Asssssss will come to aid of Terrorist State of Israel for sure


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## deepak75

Emperor Palpatine said:


> Now am really eager to see if Turkey will Violate Israeli waters ..
> 
> WW3 in the making....
> 
> 
> Considering so many Nations are involved in this Row, if a War does start will it spread like fire ?



Though I too find doomsday theories entertaining my friend but for something to count as WW, at least more than 2 nations need to be involved. 

In this case, who do you think will militarily support Turkey? Arabs? Any historical knowledge will clearly point you otherwise. Specially now with the Iran leanings....

Clearly it was a high stakes game and Turkey did not hedge its bets. Specially now with the high tenor of rhetoric, Turkey will find it increasingly difficult to get a respectable way out of this. The right wingers bit more than they could chew....


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## Spring Onion

gambit said:


> Thanks for admitting that the Arabs are a crazy people...



Better being crazy than being Israeli, American terrorists


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## Ahmad

i dont think turkey will go to a military options, they simply dont need it and dont do it. but politically i am sure they gona play very smart, that can only be achieved by politicians and leaders like Gul and Erdogan and some others.

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## gambit

Ahmad said:


> i dont think turkey will go to a military options, they simply dont need it and dont do it. but politically i am sure they gona play very smart, that can only be achieved by politicians and leaders like Gul and Erdogan and some others.


My take is that the smartest thing Turkey can do right now is to talk but do nothing. No matter how much some may boast about ship figures over the Israeli Navy, Turkey simply cannot afford to have a shooting fight with one of the world's most combat experienced militaries. No armed escorts. Nothing. The Arabs have proven themselves cowards. Turkey, who is trying to suck up to them, can do no worse.


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## Ganga

Ahmad said:


> america will back israel no matter what crimes israel comits.



They wont aid Isreal openly.US already has a bad image among the muslims.Remember turkey is also an US ally.


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## Spring Onion

Ahmad said:


> i dont think turkey will go to a military options, they simply dont need it and dont do it. but politically i am sure they gona play very smart, that can only be achieved by politicians and leaders like Gul and Erdogan and some others.



Very well said. Neither Turkey meant any military action but alas Israel has proven its true nature of zionists. Turkey was helping mending ties between Terrorist State of Israel and Arabs but the former had ruined all by stinging Turkey


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> Thanks for admitting that the Arabs are a crazy people...



Well if that gets your high then thats what it is, how old were you again. Never mind.
It will not be a laughing matter if the sh!t starts hitting the fan.


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## Desert Fox

BENNY said:


> *India not convinced by Israel's action*
> 
> 
> India not convinced by Israel's action - dnaindia.com
> 
> 
> New Delhi: *After India joined the international condemnation of the strong arm tactics of the Israeli stateagainst the storming of the humanitarian flotilla carrying aid to the embargoed civilians of Gaza, the Israeli embassy on Tuesday went into damage control mode.*
> 
> It sent out statements questioning the bonafides of some of the charitable groups involved in the campaign to take aid to the long suffering civilians of Gaza.
> 
> But despite Israelis attempts to justify its military action, few in India are willing to buy that line. In fact, the Indian government for the first time in many years came out with a strong statement against Israel. *Demonstrations are also being organised in Delhi and other Indian cities to condemn the brutal action.*
> 
> Israel now claims that the Turkish Insani Yardin Vakfi (IHH) or Humanitarian Relief Fund, a charitable outfit which among others have organised the flotilla has radical Islamic roots and is close to Hamas.
> 
> In recent years it has prominently supported Hamas (through the Union of Good). In addition, in the past the IHH provided logistical support and funding to global jihad networks, the Israeli embassy said, fishingout past reports to justify Israeli action.
> 
> The embassy also quoted a 2006study by an American researcher Evan Kohlman, working in the Danish Institute for International Studies to provethat in the pastthe Turkish IHH had connections with al Qaeda and global jihad operatives.
> 
> Israel also claims that Turkish charitys orientation is radical-Islamic and anti-Western, and it is close to the Muslim Brotherhood (Hamas parent movement).



in my opinion, if india really cared for the Palestinians and really condemned this barbaric act committed by israel then india would have severed many ties with israel just like other countries have done!


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## deepak75

Ahmad said:


> i dont think turkey will go to a military options, they simply dont need it and dont do it. but politically i am sure they gona play very smart, that can only be achieved by politicians and leaders like Gul and Erdogan and some others.



Of course Turkey will not espouse the military option. They cannot and neither was that any part of the original plan. It was a huge miscalculation thinking that domestically with the increased identification with the conflict, some political rewards could be encashed.

And there is nothing else the Turkey can do even politically. They do not have any say in the Islamic world worth its name and no-one north of Istanbul gives a dime to what Turkey thinks.

So what way out will they find except for mere raising of rhetoric and finally hope that another bigger news drowns this out.


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## gambit

khalidali said:


> Well if that gets your high then thats what it is, how old were you again. Never mind.
> It will not be a laughing matter *if the sh!t starts hitting the fan.*


If it is the Arabs who are turning on the fan, you can bet that the fan is facing them...


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## Aslan

gambit said:


> If it is the Arabs who are turning on the fan, you can bet that the fan is facing them...



Lets wait and watch my friend.


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## deepak75

SilentNinja said:


> in my opinion, if india really cared for the Palestinians and really condemned this barbaric act committed by israel then india would have severed many ties with israel just like other countries have done!



Why? What would severing of ties achieved? Let us take the case of Pakistan's approach here. What has the severing of ties by Pakistan achieved for the Palestinians? Was there any aid from Pakistan on these boats? Has Pakistan been able to contribute to the Palestinian cause in anyway with the "severing"?

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## SpArK

SilentNinja said:


> in my opinion, if india really cared for the Palestinians and really condemned this barbaric act committed by israel then india would have severed many ties with israel just like other countries have done!



Thats your thoughts ... India does nt really follow the *banning everything policy*. We always go for dialogues/ discussions.

Severing ties doesn't make any sense since its not an issue that is with India.

Even Turkey hasn't cut off all the relations . Read the military news about supply of arms not to get affected.


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## Ganga

SilentNinja said:


> in my opinion, if india really cared for the Palestinians and really condemned this barbaric act committed by israel then india would have severed many ties with israel just like other countries have done!



India does care for Palestanians .The last time the palestanian PM visited India ,India had donated 11miliion dollars.Serving ties with Isreal is definitely not an opton for India.

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## Jigs

gambit said:


> My take is that the smartest thing Turkey can do right now is to talk but do nothing. No matter how much some may boast about ship figures over the Israeli Navy, Turkey simply cannot afford to have a shooting fight with one of the world's most combat experienced militaries. No armed escorts. Nothing. The Arabs have proven themselves cowards. Turkey, who is trying to suck up to them, can do no worse.



Oh Gambit you make me laugh. You know far well the outcome if a naval conflict happens. I am actually surprised you think that Turkey is inexperienced that hurt my feelings you know your lack of knowledge in this. Go on though  Just remember where Israel trains and asks to be accepted for training which for the second year were denied I wonder why they keep asking though.


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## SpArK

SilentNinja said:


> in my opinion, if india really cared for the Palestinians and really condemned this barbaric act committed by israel then india would have severed many ties with israel just like other countries have done!



NDTV.com: India announces $20 mn aid for Palestine

India to gift embassy building to Palestine

Palestine President hails India&#8217;&#8217;s role in West Asia peace process


The Hindu : Front Page : India reaffirms commitment to the cause of Palestine

*
For Your Eyes only.*

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## gambit

Jigs said:


> Oh Gambit you make me laugh. You know far well the outcome if a naval conflict happens. I am actually surprised you think that Turkey is inexperienced that hurt my feelings you know your lack of knowledge in this. Go on though  Just remember where Israel trains and asks to be accepted for training which for the second year were denied I wonder why they keep asking though.


Comments like this regarding military affairs make me laugh. You seems to be under the impression that the words 'train' or 'training' implies a superior-inferior relationship. That is so wrong on so many levels.


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## Marxist

*Turkey sees no impact on Israel drone delivery *

ANKARA: Turkey&#8217;s Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul said on Tuesday a diplomatic crisis with Israel after the Jewish state stormed a Turkish-backed aid convoy will not affect the planned delivery of Israel-made Heron drones to Turkey. Israel&#8217;s long-time Muslim ally Turkey has recalled its envoy to Israel and cancelled joint military exercises after Israeli marines raided an aid flotilla bound for Gaza on Monday. Earlier this year, the two countries, which have a close military alliance, wrapped up the purchase of 10 Heron drones in a deal worth $180 million. reuters

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## SpArK

*More aid ships headed to Gaza*







Detained activists from the Gaza-bound flotilla flash victory signs as their bus arrives at Ben Gurion airport near Tel Aviv on Wednesday. The Free Gaza Movement said more ships are headed to the region, as Israel quickened its expulsion of detained activists. 

*The Free Gaza Movement was on Wednesday preparing to send more aid ships to Gaza*, amid claims that Israel may have sabotaged the aid flotilla, one of the founders of the pro-Palestinian movement told DPA.

The Irish cargo-ship MV Rachel Corrie could reach Gaza within two weeks, said Greta Berlin. Among the activists on board was Irish Nobel Peace laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire Helen as well as former UB assistant secretary general Dennis Halliday.

Ms. Berlin refused to give the exact position of the vessel as she said the movement suspected Israel had been trying to sabotage the aid flotilla bound for Gaza.

The MS Rachel Corrie had been set to join the convoy headed by the Turkish Marvi Marmara but had suffered sudden damage, forcing it to interrupt its voyage at Cyprus. Another two vessels, the Challenger I and Challenger II had also malfunctioned suddenly, Ms. Berlin said.

Inspections of the ships had shown that the electric wires may have been tampered with, Ms. Berlin said, adding they were still awaiting the results of a full investigation.

The rest of the convoy headed by the Marvi Marmara was on Monday forcefully intercepted by Israel. Nine activists were killed when Israeli soldiers stormed the boats, prompting a wave of international outrage against Israel&#8217;s operation.

Four of the dead have so far been identified as Turks, Turkish officials said on Wednesday.

Ms. Berlin&#8217;s remarks followed comments by Israeli Deputy Defence Minister Matan Vilnai on Israel Radio, clearly hinting Israel took covert action to sabotage the convoy.

Asked whether there had been alternatives to an assault, Mr. Vilnai said, &#8220;All possibilities had been considered,&#8221; adding &#8220;the fact is that there were fewer than the 10 ships that were supposed to participate in the flotilla&#8221;.

The Irish cargo ship is loaded with 1,200 tonnes of aid earmarked for Gaza, including 560 tonnes of cement, 100 tonnes of medical equipment among them CAT scanners, a dental office and 200 electric and regular wheelchairs, as well as papers, sports gear and crayons for children.

&#8220;We&#8217;re determined to continue with sending boats to Gaza,&#8221; Ms. Berlin said.

She rejected Israel&#8217;s charges that the activists on board the Mavi Marmara had initiated the violence by attacking the Israeli commandos landing on deck from helicopters with iron rods, chairs and knives.

The Israelis had started to shoot into the crowd for no justifiable reasons, she said.

&#8220;And for anyone to be so awful as to says that some sticks are a match for machine guns, stun guns, teargas cannisters and a heavily armed Israeli militia that&#8217;s boarding our ships in international waters has a serious issue with who is the real terrorist,&#8221; she said.

Israel on Wednesday released 449 of the some 600 foreign activists who had been on board the Gaza aid flotilla and were subsequently detained by Israel in a prison in the south of the country, a spokeswoman for Israel Prison Service told DPA.

They included 123 nationals from Arab states, among them Jordanians and Kuwaitis, who were taken on busses to Israel&#8217;s Allenby border crossing over the River Jordan with Israel&#8217;s eastern neighbour over night.

The rest were taken to Israel&#8217;s Ben Gurion International Airport near Tel Aviv for deportation abroad, most of them Turks.

Israel also said it dispatched 10 truckloads of the aid on board the flotilla to the Kerem Shalom crossing point for transportation into Gaza over land, including medical equipment, wheel chairs, and some food, Major Guy Inbar told DPA. 



The Hindu : News / International : More aid ships headed to Gaza


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## deepak75

Marxist said:


> *Turkey sees no impact on Israel drone delivery *
> 
> ANKARA: Turkeys Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul said on Tuesday a diplomatic crisis with Israel after the Jewish state stormed a Turkish-backed aid convoy will not affect the planned delivery of Israel-made Heron drones to Turkey. Israels long-time Muslim ally Turkey has recalled its envoy to Israel and cancelled joint military exercises after Israeli marines raided an aid flotilla bound for Gaza on Monday. Earlier this year, the two countries, which have a close military alliance, wrapped up the purchase of 10 Heron drones in a deal worth $180 million. reuters
> 
> Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan



That is a very brave and determined response by Turkey to this incident. They are surely not climbing down and have come out clear victors from this very wise incident.


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## Jigs

gambit said:


> Comments like this regarding military affairs make me laugh. You seems to be under the impression that the words 'train' or 'training' implies a superior-inferior relationship. That is so wrong on so many levels.



Why of course it doesn't just like when turkey goes to red flag. You know why we go there ? For the level of training. You know why Israel comes to the Anatolian Eagle ? The level of training. The night training the Anatolian eagle gives can only be had in the U.S., Canada, and Turkey.


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## Ahmad

deepak75 said:


> Of course Turkey will not espouse the military option. They cannot and neither was that any part of the original plan. It was a huge miscalculation thinking that domestically with the increased identification with the conflict, some political rewards could be encashed.
> 
> *And there is nothing else the Turkey can do even politically. They do not have any say in the Islamic world worth its name and no-one north of Istanbul gives a dime to what Turkey thinks.*
> 
> So what way out will they find except for mere raising of rhetoric and finally hope that another bigger news drowns this out.



trust me turkey have alot of repect in the muslim world for variouse reasons. if you have got time check my previous posts about turkey and see how much i was critical of turkey(just specifc issues and nothing more), but i personally now have the highest respect for them, you can imagine how the other people will feel about turkey now.

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## gambit

Jigs said:


> Why of course it doesn't just like when turkey goes to red flag. You know why we go there ? For the level of training. You know why Israel comes to the Anatolian Eagle ? The level of training. The night training the Anatolian eagle gives can only be had in the U.S., Canada, and Turkey.


When I commented that Israel is one of the world's most combat experienced militaries, you had a knee jerk reaction to the imaginary charge that Turkey is inexperience. Equals often trains together and to each other as no one has experience at everything, be it in the air or in the seas. You do not know what you are talking about. Heck...When I was in Incirlik, I saw the kid at the main gate carrying a rifle longer than he was tall. I was not very confident on how USAF Security Police could train with this Turkish equal.


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## deepak75

Ahmad said:


> trust me turkey have alot of repect in the muslim world for variouse reasons. if you have got time check my previous posts about turkey and see how much i was critical of turkey(just specifc issues and nothing more), but i personally now have the highest respect for them, you can imagine how the other people will feel about turkey now.



Bro, my experience is from first hand discussion with Arabs in the middle east and with the Turks. I am at these places every few weeks. And trust me, never try to praise anything Arab in front of a Turk. They like to be associated with the Ottoman culture more than the Arab culture. That is why the difference in lifestyles and religious tolerance so far.

This incident was primarily to raise the religious decibel within Turkey by M/s Gul & Erdogan + right wingers professing increased religious space in Turkish politics which has been hitherto denied by the military in the past.

But they did not gamble on what this ended up as. The Turkish had never any great love for any of the causes like Palestine. Yes currently they are very bothered about the Iraq situation because of the PKK angle.

Now there is disillusion with the EU membership and there is no support in the Islamic world. Please name any country besides what Iran and Syria and Zardari might say today and let us discuss the love that Turkey has in the Muslim world.


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## Ahmad

> Bro, my experience is from first hand discussion with Arabs in the middle east and with the Turks. I am at these places every few weeks. And trust me, never try to praise anything Arab in front of a Turk. They like to be associated with the Ottoman culture more than the Arab culture. That is why the difference in lifestyles and religious tolerance so far.



why do you mix the arab culture with islam anyway? i am a muslim but i dont give a damn what the arab culture is? i have got my own old culture , language and tradtion and i am proud of it, the same thing goes with the turks.



> This incident was primarily to raise the religious decibel within Turkey by M/s Gul & Erdogan + right wingers professing increased religious space in Turkish politics which has been hitherto denied by the military in the past./QUOTE]



it is not about right or left, it is about how people see this situation and the politicians have no way out of this but to repect people's opinion.




> But they did not gamble on what this ended up as. The Turkish had never any great love for any of the causes like Palestine. Yes currently they are very bothered about the Iraq situation because of the PKK angle.



you should know that this ship was not planned by the turkish gov, it was planned by many activist from all around the world including jews, europeans, and americans.



> Now there is disillusion with the EU membership and there is no support in the Islamic world. Please name any country besides what Iran and Syria and Zardari might say today and let us discuss the love that Turkey has in the Muslim world.



hope you are not mixing the public with the dictatorships in the ME countries.


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## Jigs

gambit said:


> When I commented that Israel is one of the world's most combat experienced militaries, you had a knee jerk reaction to the imaginary charge that Turkey is inexperience. Equals often trains together and to each other as no one has experience at everything, be it in the air or in the seas. You do not know what you are talking about. Heck...When I was in Incirlik, I saw the kid at the main gate carrying a rifle longer than he was tall. I was not very confident on how USAF Security Police could train with this Turkish equal.



I am not saying the Israeli Air force isn't experienced they are one of the best everyone knows that. I am surprised at your comments like you seem to be under some impression that Turkey is to be compared to Israel's Arab foes. I am even more surprised that you have been to Incirlik and still think this way. You saw a young soldier with a G-3 and that is what came to your mind ? Logically you would think he was doing his conscription. I am guessing arrogance got the better of you though.

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## SpArK

Turkey's Shift on Israel

Letters to the International Herald Tribune - Turkey's Shift on Israel - NYTimes.com





Turkeys shift on Israel

Turkeys frustration over its futile E.U. membership efforts, its over-due awakening to Irans growing emergence as a regional super power within the Islamic world, along with Ankaras domestic political concerns are three factors that explain the recent shift in its policy toward Israel. Turkey can no longer be on the losing side; it has to re-adjust its foreign policy to rapidly changing circumstances.

Turkeys deeply rooted security relationship with Israel, and its counterinsurgency involvement in Afghanistan in its capacity as a NATO member will now undergo an acute review. Its support for the Palestinian cause and its quest for a more dynamic role in the Islamic world will increase. We are bound to hear more of Turkey and its re-found identity.

Israel should acknowledge that, given this momentum, time is not on its side. Tel Aviv should know better than to rely too much on a Western world afflicted with its own problems and its own long-term interests. Israel should seriously consider that the threat it claims it is facing might after all not be originating from Iran but from its own self-defeating policies.

Israel is not doing justice to its history and its prophets. The country must wake up and accept change in the form of a reconciliation with the realities of today, while it can, rather than subjecting itself to further risks.

Dariush Shilati-Fard,Tehran


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## Spring Onion

BENNY said:


> Turkey's Shift on Israel
> 
> Letters to the International Herald Tribune - Turkey's Shift on Israel - NYTimes.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Turkeys shift on Israel
> 
> Turkeys frustration over its futile E.U. membership efforts, its over-due awakening to Irans growing emergence as a regional super power within the Islamic world, along with Ankaras domestic political concerns are three factors that explain the recent shift in its policy toward Israel. Turkey can no longer be on the losing side; it has to re-adjust its foreign policy to rapidly changing circumstances.
> 
> Turkeys deeply rooted security relationship with Israel, and its counterinsurgency involvement in Afghanistan in its capacity as a NATO member will now undergo an acute review. Its support for the Palestinian cause and its quest for a more dynamic role in the Islamic world will increase. We are bound to hear more of Turkey and its re-found identity.
> 
> Israel should acknowledge that, given this momentum, time is not on its side. Tel Aviv should know better than to rely too much on a Western world afflicted with its own problems and its own long-term interests. Israel should seriously consider that the threat it claims it is facing might after all not be originating from Iran but from its own self-defeating policies.
> 
> Israel is not doing justice to its history and its prophets. The country must wake up and accept change in the form of a reconciliation with the realities of today, while it can, rather than subjecting itself to further risks.
> 
> Dariush Shilati-Fard,Tehran



A letter to editor that too based on wrong assumption that "Iran is emerging as a regional super power within the Islamic world" ???????


Lolzzz my two cent. Iran is far from even a power within its own territory what to say about regional power within Islamic world.


Come on BENNY do not bank on Letters to Editor that too a stupid letter without substantial backing argument by the sender

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## deepak75

Ahmad said:


> why do you mix the arab culture with islam anyway? i am a muslim but i dont give a damn what the arab culture is? i have got my own old culture , language and tradtion and i am proud of it, the same thing goes with the turks.
> 
> it is not about right or left, it is about how people see this situation and the politicians have no way out of this but to repect people's opinion.
> 
> you should know that this ship was not planned by the turkish gov, it was planned by many activist from all around the world including jews, europeans, and americans.
> 
> hope you are not mixing the public with the dictatorships in the ME countries.



Our discussion is going nowhere without any facts. Your assertion was that with this event the Turkey will have renewed respect in the World. I just invited you to bring up any instance of nation/s where Turkey will have gained support with this event and we can then have a realistic dicussion.

General = what you / me / people feel discussion, is subjective and nothing can be ever established.

The incident may not have been planned by the government in Turkey but it cannot be executed without the support of the Turkish government and if there would have been any consequences (as happened) then Turkey would have been most impacted (as is happening). 

My objective was not to dispute / corroborate / discuss any of the ideas that you may have regarding the cultural differences / nature of government / people thinking in Arab / non Arab muslim countries. It was just a response to your assertion that Turkey will have gained respect in the Muslim world with this incident. Appreciate your understanding and cooperation in advance of discussing this with facts. Thanks.


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## Ahmad

^^^ i am just reading a report from Lebanon that huge crowd of people are carrying turkish flags and praising turkey for its stance.


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## SpArK

Jana said:


> A letter to editor that too based on wrong assumption that "Iran is emerging as a regional super power within the Islamic world" ???????
> 
> 
> Lolzzz my two cent. Iran is far from even a power within its own territory what to say about regional power within Islamic world.
> 
> 
> Come on BENNY do not bank on Letters to Editor that too a stupid letter without substantial backing argument by the sender



Lets get/analyse all the opinions in our discussion.We have already condemned the attack act by Israelis lets view how much it affects the EU relationships.


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## indushek

Morally i condemn the Israeli action. Practically i think no action is possible against them due to various reasons given by many learned counterparts above.


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## deepak75

Jana said:


> A letter to editor that too based on wrong assumption that "Iran is emerging as a regional super power within the Islamic world" ???????
> 
> *Lolzzz my two cent. Iran is far from even a power within its own territory what to say about regional power within Islamic world.*
> 
> Come on BENNY do not bank on Letters to Editor that too a stupid letter without substantial backing argument by the sender



Iran is not in the middle of a civil war. It is not in total financial turmoil. It has the 2nd largest gas reserves besides natural oil reserves & a very critical geo-political location. Even though if the world may not agree with the thought process in Iran but no one can say that Iran is failing!

Iran today has influence in Iraq / Syria / Palestine / Lebanon in the Islamic world and recent leanings with Turkey (more to do with the PKK challenge). Whatever could be the nature of these influences but they are there!!

That would count only as a second after Saudi Arabia which is established as a clear leader of the Muslim world. So it can be said that Iran's influence is grown albiet for any many geo-political / upmanship reasons in the international polity.

So why be so dismissive of Iran? The only thing that they do not have is a nuclear weapon and with the current dilly dallying of the world, percentages indicate that they will be able to get that too.


----------



## Aslan

Turkey gives Israel deadline to free activists


Turkey warned Wednesday of fresh measures against Israel if it failed to free by the evening hundreds of Turkish activists detained in a deadly raid on aid ships bound for the Gaza Strip.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said he delivered the warning in a meeting with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Washington Tuesday as he sought her intervention in the crisis over Monday's boarding of the flotilla in international waters in the Mediterranean.

"I expressed our absolute determination on the following issue: if our citizens are not released in 24 hours, by tonight in other words, we will review our ties with Israel entirely," he told reporters here.

"No one has the right to prosecute people kidnapped in international waters," he said.

Turkish pressure appeared to be instrumental as Israel said it would free all the pro-Palestinian volunteers and rushed to deport them Wednesday, while Ankara sent three planes to collect its nationals.

Turkey has already recalled its ambassador from Tel Aviv and scrapped plans for joint military exercises, plunging already poisoned bilateral ties into deep crisis.

At least four Turks were among the nine dead in the bloodshed, which occurred on a Turkish-flagged ship carrying hundreds of activists, mostly Turks.

In another warning issued via Washington, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told US President Barack Obama that Israel risked losing Turkey, its "sole friend" in the Middle East, as he urged action against its "unacceptable lawlessness."

"Israel is faced with the danger of losing its sole friend in the region and the greatest contributor so far to regional peace," his office quoted Erdogan as telling Obama in a one-hour telephone conversation.

"The steps that it will undertake in the coming days will be determining for its position in the region," Erdogan said.

On Tuesday, a furious Erdogan called for an international inquiry and sanctions against Israel over the "bloody massacre." He slammed the Jewish state as "a festering boil in the Middle East that spreads hate and enmity."

Turkey's justice ministry is looking into both domestic and international law to see what action might be undertaken against Israel, Anatolia news agency reported Wednesday.

The three Turkish planes were expected to repatriate about 350 Turkish nationals.

"Our objective is to bring back everybody as well as the bodies," a Turkish diplomat told AFP.

Davutoglu said the aircraft would also take foreign activists.

The Red Crescent said it would bring home 17 wounded on an ambulance plane, kept on stand-by in Tel Aviv.

Two Turks with heavy injuries would remain in hospital in Israel, accompanied by a Turkish doctor, Davutoglu said.

The Turkish authorities are yet to release the identities of the four dead, but local media identified all as devout Muslim men involved in Islamic movements or charities.

A least three of them reportedly wanted to die as "martyrs."

"He was an exemplary man, an exemplary philanthropist. That's why martyrdom suited him very much. Allah gave him a death he desired," the brother-in-law of one of the victims, 61-year-old retired engineer Ibrahim Bilgen, told Anatolia.

Another victim, 39-year-old telephone repairman Ali Haydar Bengi, "wanted to go to Palestine. And he constantly prayed to become a martyr," his wife told the Vatan daily.

The Turkish activists were mobilised by the Foundation of Humanitarian Relief, an Islamist charity which spearheaded the campaign to break Israel's blockade of impoverished Gaza and deliver some 10,000 tonnes of supplies.

The bloody raid triggered daily demonstrations across Turkey, with the most fervent protestors camping outside Israeli missions in Ankara and Istanbul even during the night.

Muslim-majority Turkey became Israel's chief regional ally when the two signed a military cooperation deal in 1996. But ties have taken a sharp downturn since Israel's devastating war on Gaza last year amid vehement criticism from Erdogan's Islamist-rooted government.

Israel blockaded Gaza after its bitter foe, the radical Islamist Hamas movement, was elected to power in the territory three years ago.

© 2010 AFP
This story is sourced direct from an overseas news agency as an additional service to readers. Spelling follows North American usage, along with foreign currency and measurement units.

Turkey gives Israel deadline to free activists

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## Jigs

khalidali said:


> Turkey gives Israel deadline to free activists
> 
> 
> Turkey warned Wednesday of fresh measures against Israel if it failed to free by the evening hundreds of Turkish activists detained in a deadly raid on aid ships bound for the Gaza Strip.
> 
> Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said he delivered the warning in a meeting with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton in Washington Tuesday as he sought her intervention in the crisis over Monday's boarding of the flotilla in international waters in the Mediterranean.
> 
> "I expressed our absolute determination on the following issue: if our citizens are not released in 24 hours, by tonight in other words, we will review our ties with Israel entirely," he told reporters here.
> 
> "No one has the right to prosecute people kidnapped in international waters," he said.
> 
> Turkish pressure appeared to be instrumental as Israel said it would free all the pro-Palestinian volunteers and rushed to deport them Wednesday, while Ankara sent three planes to collect its nationals.
> 
> Turkey has already recalled its ambassador from Tel Aviv and scrapped plans for joint military exercises, plunging already poisoned bilateral ties into deep crisis.
> 
> At least four Turks were among the nine dead in the bloodshed, which occurred on a Turkish-flagged ship carrying hundreds of activists, mostly Turks.
> 
> In another warning issued via Washington, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told US President Barack Obama that Israel risked losing Turkey, its "sole friend" in the Middle East, as he urged action against its "unacceptable lawlessness."
> 
> "Israel is faced with the danger of losing its sole friend in the region and the greatest contributor so far to regional peace," his office quoted Erdogan as telling Obama in a one-hour telephone conversation.
> 
> "The steps that it will undertake in the coming days will be determining for its position in the region," Erdogan said.
> 
> On Tuesday, a furious Erdogan called for an international inquiry and sanctions against Israel over the "bloody massacre." He slammed the Jewish state as "a festering boil in the Middle East that spreads hate and enmity."
> 
> Turkey's justice ministry is looking into both domestic and international law to see what action might be undertaken against Israel, Anatolia news agency reported Wednesday.
> 
> The three Turkish planes were expected to repatriate about 350 Turkish nationals.
> 
> "Our objective is to bring back everybody as well as the bodies," a Turkish diplomat told AFP.
> 
> Davutoglu said the aircraft would also take foreign activists.
> 
> The Red Crescent said it would bring home 17 wounded on an ambulance plane, kept on stand-by in Tel Aviv.
> 
> Two Turks with heavy injuries would remain in hospital in Israel, accompanied by a Turkish doctor, Davutoglu said.
> 
> The Turkish authorities are yet to release the identities of the four dead, but local media identified all as devout Muslim men involved in Islamic movements or charities.
> 
> A least three of them reportedly wanted to die as "martyrs."
> 
> "He was an exemplary man, an exemplary philanthropist. That's why martyrdom suited him very much. Allah gave him a death he desired," the brother-in-law of one of the victims, 61-year-old retired engineer Ibrahim Bilgen, told Anatolia.
> 
> Another victim, 39-year-old telephone repairman Ali Haydar Bengi, "wanted to go to Palestine. And he constantly prayed to become a martyr," his wife told the Vatan daily.
> 
> The Turkish activists were mobilised by the Foundation of Humanitarian Relief, an Islamist charity which spearheaded the campaign to break Israel's blockade of impoverished Gaza and deliver some 10,000 tonnes of supplies.
> 
> The bloody raid triggered daily demonstrations across Turkey, with the most fervent protestors camping outside Israeli missions in Ankara and Istanbul even during the night.
> 
> Muslim-majority Turkey became Israel's chief regional ally when the two signed a military cooperation deal in 1996. But ties have taken a sharp downturn since Israel's devastating war on Gaza last year amid vehement criticism from Erdogan's Islamist-rooted government.
> 
> Israel blockaded Gaza after its bitter foe, the radical Islamist Hamas movement, was elected to power in the territory three years ago.
> 
> © 2010 AFP
> This story is sourced direct from an overseas news agency as an additional service to readers. Spelling follows North American usage, along with foreign currency and measurement units.
> 
> Turkey gives Israel deadline to free activists




Let all those other nations read this. Understand aggressive diplomacy.

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## Thomas

Jigs said:


> Let all those other nations read this. Understand aggressive diplomacy.



How much would you like to wager most but not all Turks will get released. And relations though from the public perception will remain cold. behind the scenes it will be business as usual militarily.


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## Spring Onion

deepak75 said:


> Iran is not in the middle of a civil war. It is not in total financial turmoil. It has the 2nd largest gas reserves besides natural oil reserves & a very critical geo-political location. Even though if the world may not agree with the thought process in Iran but no one can say that Iran is failing!
> 
> Iran today has influence in Iraq / Syria / Palestine / Lebanon in the Islamic world and recent leanings with Turkey (more to do with the PKK challenge). Whatever could be the nature of these influences but they are there!!
> 
> That would count only as a second after Saudi Arabia which is established as a clear leader of the Muslim world. So it can be said that Iran's influence is grown albiet for any many geo-political / upmanship reasons in the international polity.
> 
> So why be so dismissive of Iran? The only thing that they do not have is a nuclear weapon and with the current dilly dallying of the world, percentages indicate that they will be able to get that too.


Its not about the nuclear weapons rather its about Iran's stance over many things and its relations with Islamic or Arab world too.


having warm relations with Hizbullah doesnt make Iran a regional power.

In Iraq it had no power or influence till the time US had attacked Iraq now Iranian support there is worsening the situation in Iraq and we daily see bombing.


Iran's relations with Arabs are not exemplary as well . Currently under looming sanctions and pressure from the world over its nuke program, Iran can not be called regional power in any way.

The large gas or oil reserves can be the fatal reason for any future attack on it overtly or covertly by US


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## nadirkahn

BENNY said:


> NDTV.com: India announces $20 mn aid for Palestine
> 
> India to gift embassy building to Palestine
> 
> Palestine President hails Indias role in West Asia peace process
> 
> 
> The Hindu : Front Page : India reaffirms commitment to the cause of Palestine
> 
> *
> For Your Eyes only.*



Thats gr8 from India..
pakistani Broz dont do silly comments about india,,,India has its own foriegn policy..
Prophet Mohammad Did so many negotiations besides war....They traded with mecca tribals when he was in medina,,,,It gives you an indication that the Prophet will do diplomacy at the same time when he was at the war....
Hope pakistani Broz may believes it..

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## gambit

Jigs said:


> I am not saying the Israeli Air force isn't experienced they are one of the best everyone knows that.


But...Like I said...You had a knee jerk reaction when I said that Turkey would hesitate on getting into a war against Israel, one of the world's most combat experienced militaries. You imagined a charge that Turkey is inexperienced. The truth is that no matter how much experience or size of a military, even for US, a wise leadership would assess the potential adversary and pay close attention to the level of combat experience and training that potential adversary has. Turkey will not be so foolish as many here would like to get into a shooting fight with Israel over some idiots on a few boats. Israel does not constitute a national security threat to Turkey or to Turkish overseas interests. Getting into a shooting fight with Israel to a stalemate or perhaps even a defeat would be catastrophic to Turkish national and international prestige. This mean the best option for Turkey is to get into an all-out war against Israel over a few idiots on a boat. Those who called for Turkish military action is doing it to satisfy their own anti-Israel passion, not common sense.



Jigs said:


> I am surprised at your comments like you seem to be under some impression *that Turkey is to be compared to Israel's Arab foes.*


Yes I do.


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## Justice

@gambit

Turks aren't Arabs you idiot. If you really think that you must be dumb. Whatever..

Better go and support your Big Brother Israel and give them back up. Give them a Medal for what they did to Palestine.


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## Black Stone

It's understandable why Jigs gets emotional as he is a Turk and the ship being Turkish flagged and his fellow Turks are among the dead.


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## gambit

Justice said:


> @gambit
> 
> Turks aren't Arabs you idiot. If you really think that you must be dumb. Whatever..
> 
> Better go and support your Big Brother Israel and give them back up. Give them a Medal for what they did to Palestine.


Comparing or opining that the Turkish military is comparable in status or capability to an Arab military is *NOT* saying that Turks are Arabs. So who is the idiot now, idiot...!!!


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## mohd497

The news is fake.There has been no confirmation over this by turkish government more over this news was spread by ibn-live an indian news channel who have the habit of bringing up everyone on false alarm.Now every blog discuss this.

If anyone think turkey will retaliate are living in fools paradise.Not that the aid convoy was not sponsor by turkey or that the turks are not experienced in war. 
But they are part of NATO and EU.I dont think turkey will risk that membership to send another aid convoy which according to them will be initiation of the war.
It will be same old story Israel will attack innocent people, Israel and its friends will come up with bull **** story like those repoters were risk to there national security since they had knives in there kitchen or the word hezbolla will be used to justify any actions.
Muslims will be on there roads protesting and some even destorying there own country properties and after a month it will be forgotten.
In the last i will say that ACTIONS OF ISRAEL IS NOT BECAUSE OF TERRORISM THERE IS TERRORISM BECAUSE OF ISRAEL.


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## Justice

Ofcourse Turkey wont attack Israel. Why should we? Where are the Arab Countries? Sleeping? They wouldnt give a **** bout Turkey if this would happen to us.

@gambit

Even that Opinion gets a "lol" from me.. Better Check out our History..

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## bc040400065

*Turks mourn dead, president warns Israel on ties *

Thursday, 03 Jun, 2010 


ISTANBUL: Thousands thronged an Istanbul mosque on Thursday for the funeral of Turkish activists killed in an Israeli naval raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship, as President Abdullah Gul told an outraged nation that ties with Israel would never be the same again.

Draped in Turkish and Palestinian flags, the coffins of eight of the nine dead were brought to Fatih mosque, a grand Ottoman structure in one of Istanbul's most pious areas for a service before being dispersed around the country for burial.

You head to heaven. May God bless your martyrdom, read a huge banner on one side of a square brimming with mourners, among them some who had been aboard the Gaza-bound aid flotilla and had arrived back in Istanbul just hours earlier.

We are deeply sad but at the same time we are outraged, said Hulya Sekerci, a charity worker from Istanbul.

*Nine people were killed. The whole world must react to this. The government must do more than just speak angry words.*

All nine dead men, eight Turks and US citizen of Turkish origin, were aboard the converted cruise ship Mavi Marmara when Israeli commandos boarded it in international waters.

Four of the dead were brought to us for resuscitation, but it was too late... It was a bloodbath, we had no special equipment and had to lay the injured on the floor, said British housewife Laura Stuart, a mourner at the funeral who had tried to perform first aid aboard the Mavi Marmara.

GREATEST MISTAKE

Gul issued a stark warning, echoing the words of Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan, declaring Turkey would never forget such an attack on its ships and people in international waters.

*Israel made one of the greatest mistakes in its history. It will see in time what a huge mistake it made, *the president told a news conference east of Ankara.

The killing of Turks has outraged the Muslim country and brought already strained ties between the Jewish state and Ankara's Islamist-leaning government close to breaking point.

*Turkey has recalled its ambassador and Erdogan, charging Israel with state terrorism, *has called for those responsible for the deaths to be punished.

Other activists, who have given harrowing accounts of their ordeal on the high seas, arrived in Istanbul earlier on Thursday to a hero's welcome by thousands of cheering supporters.

DAWN.COM | World | Turks mourn dead, president warns Israel on ties


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## Spring Onion

*Turkey says ties with Israel 'will never be the same' *


ANKARA* : Turkey's ties with Israel suffered irreparable damage and will never be the same after the deadly raid on aid ships bound for Gaza, Turkish President Abdullah Gul said Thursday.*

"From now on, Turkish-Israeli ties will never be the same. This incident has left an irreparable and deep scar" on relations, he said in televised remarks.

Gul added that Monday's attack by Israeli forces, in which eight Turks and a US national of Turkish origin were killed, "is not an issue that can be forgotten... or be covered up."

"Israel has made the biggest mistake in its history. It will realize this better in the future. Turkey will never forgive this attack," he said.

The bodies of the nine victims were brought to Turkey early Thursday along with more than 450 activists and 19 wounded deported by Israel after being captured in the raid.

Turkey's Anatolia news agency reported that the victims were shot dead after forensic experts found bullet marks on their bodies.

Turkey has already recalled its ambassador to Tel Aviv and scrapped joint war games with Israel in an angry response to the attack.


Copyright AFP (Agence France-Presse), 2010


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## IBRIS

When is the next flotila due to be shipped.? Anyone have any idea

Will Turkey go for confrontation with Israeli navy.?


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## Al-zakir

*Twelve Reasons for the International Community to Bomb Israel*

Wednesday June 02 2010 23:03:29 PM BDT


By Yamin Zakaria , UK


"Maybe because we all grew used to seeing the Israelis kill Arabs, maybe the Israelis grew used to killing Arabs. Now they kill Turks" (Robert Fisk)

1--Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction; Iran or any of the other peaceful countries in the region does not have any nuclear weapons, except Israel. 

2---Israel refuses to become a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and denies international inspection of its nuclear weapons; the recent declassified documents shows Israel offered nuclear weapons to the old apartheid regime of South Africa. One can see Israelâs natural affinity towards another racist regime; it is a clear threat to the proliferation of nuclear weapons. 

3---Iran has not attacked any of its neighbours, whereas Israel has constantly attacked its neighbour, and repeatedly in some cases, killing thousands of innocent civilians. It has now sent two of its submarine equipped with nuclear weapons to the coast of Iran. In the words of Norman Finkelstein, Israel is a lunatic state, armed with nuclear weapons, constitutes a real threat to the peace and security in the region. 

4---Israel has been violating UN resolutions almost from its illegitimate birth in 1948, and it continues to steal lands by building illegal settlement in the West Bank. Israel is a bastard child that fails to see the legitimate fathers of the land; they are the Palestinians. 

5---Israel operates like the criminal mafia organisation, resorts to cowardly assassination; recently it murdered the Hamas commander in Dubai, and earlier Sheikh Ahmed Yasin. 

6---The Gaza slaughter in 2009 has been certified as a war crime by the UN Judge, Richard Goldstein, where Israel broke the norms of warfare and used chemical weapons on the civilian population, attacked ambulances carrying the dead and injured. They killed 1500 Palestinians, bulk of them innocent women and children. 

7--Israels disregard for the UN goes beyond ignoring UN resolutions; it attacked the UN compound during the carnage in Gaza. It also attacked and killed Journalists. 

8---Israel has an official policy of ethnic cleansing; accordingly, it systematically targets Palestinian women and children. This is partly because the Palestinian population is growing at a much faster rate, and the Israelis cannot compete on demographic front, perhaps the Zionist seeds are weak; this is compounded by a religion that emphasises on racial exclusivity. 

9---Israel is not the democracy of the Middle East, but symbolises tyranny and oppression that has no place in the civilised world. It regularly demolishes Palestinian homes and continues to prevent the building of basic facilities; thus, deprive them of the most basic human rights. Far from being a democracy, Israel displays all the traits of a Fascist state that has no regard for anyone else. 

10---Israel is a racist state that practices hate and intolerance of non-Jews. The policy of the right to return means, any Jew can come and occupy the Arab land, whereas the Palestinians displaced in 1948 cannot return, which is a clear violation of international law. 

11---Israel is responsible for creating the largest concentration camp of Gaza by the illegal blockade placed over it for the last three years, which the Amnesty International has called a flagrant violation of international law. It defies belief that these were the people put in concentration camp by the Nazis only 60 years ago, yet they find it so easy to treat other human beings in a similar way. 

12---Now, Israel has shamefully attacked a peace convoy in international water, killing innocent peace activists carrying aid for the desperate people of Gaza. Subsequently, Israeli authority imprisoned the activists, which is akin to holding them as hostages. 

Why was there a need to conduct the raid in the middle of the night using live ammunition, instead of rubber bullets? Those boats would have come to the ports, and the Israelis could have easily inspected the boats for weapons. In any case, the boats had already passed through several European ports and cleared by customs. Maybe Israel has become accustomed to attacking the weak and defenceless, but it is the shame in seeing that many people around the world coming to break the criminal siege of Gaza that prompted the shameless Israelis to react in a shameful way. 

If this were Iran or any other Muslim nation, condemnation would have been swift; the US would have been preparing to send bombing raids, the politicians and the media would have made the usual howling noise about terrorism and militancy, demonising the entire civilisation of Islam. The initial reaction from the US shows great caution, rather than a single word of condemnation for the murderous acts of Israel. 

So, where is the will of the international community now? The arrogant US always talks as the âinternational communityâ when it speaks to Iran. However, the real international community has spoken today in response to Israeli terrorism and piracy, as they did over the Gaza carnage. Will the UN Security Council reflect the voice of the real international community now? Unlikely, because the US will most likely use its veto power to protect the tiny pariah nation, and ignore the voice of the majority nations, in line with its democratic credential! 

A military response of Israel needs to be met with a military response, and it would be within Turkeyâs right to bomb Tel-Aviv. At the very least, Turkey should demand compensation, UN sanctions, and the extradition of the Israeli soldiers responsible for the crimes committed in the international waters. 

Peace cannot take place without justice; Israel is an obvious obstacle to peace. It is time for the real international community to demand the current international trend of bombing a nation, to bring about a regime change. Israel has committed war crimes, state terrorism, piracy, theft of land, murder of innocent civilians, assassination, ethnic cleansing. Why should it be any different for Israel? Bringing Israel to account would be the first step to bring about real justice, which would allow real peace to prevail in the region. 

Yamin Zakaria 
E Mail : yamin@radicalviews.org
London, UK
Published 1/06/2010
RadicalViews.org
A Moderate View in a Radical World

http://www.bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidRecord=320714

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## Spring Onion

These are 12 solid reasons US should withdraw its support to Terrorist State of Israel and there will be no reason to bomb Israel

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## We Are Soldiers

12 reasons will remain 12 reasons.. You guys will keep on dreaming about that...

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## gaurish

Al-zakir said:


> *Twelve Reasons for the International Community to Bomb Israel*
> 
> Wednesday June 02 2010 23:03:29 PM BDT
> 
> 
> By Yamin Zakaria , UK
> 
> 
> "Maybe because we all grew used to seeing the Israelis kill Arabs, maybe the Israelis grew used to killing Arabs. Now they kill Turks" (Robert Fisk)
> 
> 1--Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction; Iran or any of the other peaceful countries in the region does not have any nuclear weapons, except Israel.
> 
> 2---Israel refuses to become a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and denies international inspection of its nuclear weapons; the recent declassified documents shows Israel offered nuclear weapons to the old apartheid regime of South Africa. One can see Israelâs natural affinity towards another racist regime; it is a clear threat to the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
> 
> 3---Iran has not attacked any of its neighbours, whereas Israel has constantly attacked its neighbour, and repeatedly in some cases, killing thousands of innocent civilians. It has now sent two of its submarine equipped with nuclear weapons to the coast of Iran. In the words of Norman Finkelstein, Israel is a lunatic state, armed with nuclear weapons, constitutes a real threat to the peace and security in the region.
> 
> 4---Israel has been violating UN resolutions almost from its illegitimate birth in 1948, and it continues to steal lands by building illegal settlement in the West Bank. Israel is a bastard child that fails to see the legitimate fathers of the land; they are the Palestinians.
> 
> 5---Israel operates like the criminal mafia organisation, resorts to cowardly assassination; recently it murdered the Hamas commander in Dubai, and earlier Sheikh Ahmed Yasin.
> 
> 6---The Gaza slaughter in 2009 has been certified as a war crime by the UN Judge, Richard Goldstein, where Israel broke the norms of warfare and used chemical weapons on the civilian population, attacked ambulances carrying the dead and injured. They killed 1500 Palestinians, bulk of them innocent women and children.
> 
> 7--Israels disregard for the UN goes beyond ignoring UN resolutions; it attacked the UN compound during the carnage in Gaza. It also attacked and killed Journalists.
> 
> 8---Israel has an official policy of ethnic cleansing; accordingly, it systematically targets Palestinian women and children. This is partly because the Palestinian population is growing at a much faster rate, and the Israelis cannot compete on demographic front, perhaps the Zionist seeds are weak; this is compounded by a religion that emphasises on racial exclusivity.
> 
> 9---Israel is not the democracy of the Middle East, but symbolises tyranny and oppression that has no place in the civilised world. It regularly demolishes Palestinian homes and continues to prevent the building of basic facilities; thus, deprive them of the most basic human rights. Far from being a democracy, Israel displays all the traits of a Fascist state that has no regard for anyone else.
> 
> 10---Israel is a racist state that practices hate and intolerance of non-Jews. The policy of the right to return means, any Jew can come and occupy the Arab land, whereas the Palestinians displaced in 1948 cannot return, which is a clear violation of international law.
> 
> 11---Israel is responsible for creating the largest concentration camp of Gaza by the illegal blockade placed over it for the last three years, which the Amnesty International has called a flagrant violation of international law. It defies belief that these were the people put in concentration camp by the Nazis only 60 years ago, yet they find it so easy to treat other human beings in a similar way.
> 
> 12---Now, Israel has shamefully attacked a peace convoy in international water, killing innocent peace activists carrying aid for the desperate people of Gaza. Subsequently, Israeli authority imprisoned the activists, which is akin to holding them as hostages.
> 
> Why was there a need to conduct the raid in the middle of the night using live ammunition, instead of rubber bullets? Those boats would have come to the ports, and the Israelis could have easily inspected the boats for weapons. In any case, the boats had already passed through several European ports and cleared by customs. Maybe Israel has become accustomed to attacking the weak and defenceless, but it is the shame in seeing that many people around the world coming to break the criminal siege of Gaza that prompted the shameless Israelis to react in a shameful way.
> 
> If this were Iran or any other Muslim nation, condemnation would have been swift; the US would have been preparing to send bombing raids, the politicians and the media would have made the usual howling noise about terrorism and militancy, demonising the entire civilisation of Islam. The initial reaction from the US shows great caution, rather than a single word of condemnation for the murderous acts of Israel.
> 
> So, where is the will of the international community now? The arrogant US always talks as the âinternational communityâ when it speaks to Iran. However, the real international community has spoken today in response to Israeli terrorism and piracy, as they did over the Gaza carnage. Will the UN Security Council reflect the voice of the real international community now? Unlikely, because the US will most likely use its veto power to protect the tiny pariah nation, and ignore the voice of the majority nations, in line with its democratic credential!
> 
> A military response of Israel needs to be met with a military response, and it would be within Turkeyâs right to bomb Tel-Aviv. At the very least, Turkey should demand compensation, UN sanctions, and the extradition of the Israeli soldiers responsible for the crimes committed in the international waters.
> 
> Peace cannot take place without justice; Israel is an obvious obstacle to peace. It is time for the real international community to demand the current international trend of bombing a nation, to bring about a regime change. Israel has committed war crimes, state terrorism, piracy, theft of land, murder of innocent civilians, assassination, ethnic cleansing. Why should it be any different for Israel? Bringing Israel to account would be the first step to bring about real justice, which would allow real peace to prevail in the region.
> 
> Yamin Zakaria
> E Mail : yamin@radicalviews.org
> London, UK
> Published 1/06/2010
> RadicalViews.org
> A Moderate View in a Radical World
> 
> http://www.bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidRecord=320714



Also please telll who are top 12 countries who will bomb Israel and the countries who will support israel.......


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## WAQAS119

world should nuke their a$$ only then world will become peaceful place.

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## Spring Onion

We Are Soldiers said:


> 12 reasons will remain 12 reasons.. You guys will keep on dreaming about that...



Evil dosnt win in the long run thats what we know.

Though Evil will prevail for long but not forever

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## Al-zakir

gaurish said:


> Also please telll who are top 12 countries who will bomb Israel and the countries who will support israel.......



Do you disagree with the reasons and why shouldn't this mother of all source of terrorism should not be blown up?


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## gaurish

Jana said:


> Evil dosnt win in the long run thats what we know.
> 
> Though Evil will prevail for long but not forever



some people think some people are evil , you think some are evil , we think some are evil, but the thing is our thinking does not match.....

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## Al-zakir

Notice how bharati taking *zionist *side. A reminder for us that there was a very good reason for us to separeted from them terrorist.

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## We Are Soldiers

Jana said:


> Evil dosnt win in the long run thats what we know.
> 
> Though Evil will prevail for long but not forever



Sounds good but impractical.


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## gaurish

Al-zakir said:


> Notice how bharati taking *zionist *side. A reminder for us that there was a very good reason for us to separeted from them terrorist.



well u can talk straight forward Israel is a close friend of India and not hamas... so that is not something new , is it?

And i guess u are with HAMAS.....


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## LegionnairE

IBRIS said:


> When is the next flotila due to be shipped.? Anyone have any idea
> 
> Will Turkey go for confrontation with Israeli navy.?


If Israel does not anything stupid

No

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## Al-zakir

gaurish said:


> well u can talk straight forward Israel is a close friend of India and not hamas... so that is not something new , is it?
> 
> And i guess u are with HAMAS.....



Hamas is party of freedom fighter. They have been fighting against terrorist killer for last 60 years. They have all the right to defend their motherland. 

When I see Bharati support Zionist then Maoist action justify against you bloody Terrorist.

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## khanz

gaurish said:


> well u can talk straight forward Israel is a close friend of India and not hamas... so that is not something new , is it?
> 
> And i guess u are with HAMAS.....



it's not about supporting hamas anyone with an ounce of humanity will support palestine.What the israelis have been doing is nothing short of genocide .


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## cabatli_53

I advice to the members who ranked Turkish army as unexperienced in previous pages, should Check How many national-international training operations Turkish army is participating annually, How modern Turkish training centers are, How many flying time records TuAF has breaked and How many real night surprise attack operations TuAF has performed in N. Irak against PKK.

Talking about a subject without having any idea do not make any sense in here. Anybody did not underestimate Israel but Our truths and capabilities are also known by everybody in forums.


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## rameez ahmed

the Holy Prophet (SA) said:

*"surely you will fight the jews and surely you kill them. And on that day even the stones will speak O MUSLIM !!! there is a jew hiding behind me.So come and kill him"*​
(Sahih Bukhari)

Muslims victory over jews has already been told by our Prophet (SA). So muslims should continue their struggle against Israel. 

And by the way this saying is not for ALL THE JEWS.. Prophet Muhammad (SA) said this for only those jews who will fight muslims.. This means the struggle should only be against those jews that support Israel.. 

There are many jews who are against the illegal occupation of Israel. Islam don't say to consider them as enemies...

Please see the Documentary named *Occupation 101"* in this regard.

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## gaurish

khanz said:


> it's not about supporting hamas anyone with an ounce of humanity will support palestine.What the israelis have been doing is nothing short of genocide .



so why there are any reasons to BOMB Israel.. are there no people living there... are there no families there... so Will it be a humanitarian effort to bomb Israel? 
India will have 10 reasons to bomb Pakistan
Pakistan will have 20 reasons to bomb India
Russia will have 100 reasons to bomb USA

Is it all worth????

What is this thread all about...

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## khanz

gaurish said:


> so why there are any reasons to BOMB Israel.. are there no people living there... are there no families there... so Will it be a humanitarian effort to bomb Israel?
> India will have 10 reasons to bomb Pakistan
> Pakistan will have 20 reasons to bomb India
> Russia will have 100 reasons to bomb USA
> 
> Is it all worth????
> 
> What is this thread all about...



who knows ? but what we do know is gaza is the world largest concentration camp and people who care will do whatever it takes to help them.


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

We will welcome israel for war thousand time but problem is this if they remain till reach to just our boder, coz if in 1973, sixteen of PAF pilots in YOM KIPPUR WAR. During the coflict, when a secret attack was planed to attack Syrian Dumayr airbase, PAF intercept the Israeli air defence and shot coming aircraft from Israel in Israel soil air, It was MIRAGE IIICJ, shoted down by Flt. Lt. Sattar Alvi using Mig29, Mig aircraft are new to PAF Pilots they didnt use it before, but still best flyed, pilot of downed Israeli Mirage was Capt. M. Lutz, who ejected and remaining Israeli fighter abort the mission. NUR KHAN, who was the wing commander, received praised from ISRAELI PERSIDENT EZER WEIZMAN, WHO WROTE IN HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY THAT: " HE WAS A FORMIDABLE FELLOW AND I WAS GLAD THAT HE WAS PAKISTANI NOT EGYPTIAN". 
If they cant save them from us in 70's and If we can crush their airforce on their soil air in 70's, its 2010 you can think what we make of them now, specialy when they are in our soil for fight... Hahaa


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## Marxist

*Turkey emerges as Middle East leader*

The recent flotilla incident is the culmination of a steep decline in Israeli-Turkish relations that started with the Gaza war in 2008 and 2009. Relations between these two countries, after reaching a high point in the late 1990s and early 2000s, are now beyond repair, and it will probably take the better part of a decade for them to be resuscitated.

Turkey has also used its increasingly rancorous disputes with Israel to advance its status in the Middle East at the expense of traditional leaders across the region.

Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP), which came to power in 2002, was always conflicted in its relations with Israel. The party emerged from a hardcore anti-Western and anti-Israeli Islamist tradition that had close ties to Hamas and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood.

As it rose to power, however, the AKP distanced itself from these positions and even embraced the idea of joining the European Union. Still, it always maintained a critical stance when it came to Israel that was punctuated by occasional outbursts.

Turkey's relations with Israel improved when the AKP stepped into the vacuum created in the Middle East by the Bush administration's policies and orchestrated secret negotiations between Israel and Syria.

This effort fit well with the AKP's grand vision of its foreign policy -- Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his party were intent in making Turkey an important international player.

After punching below its weight for far too long, Ankara thought now was the time to engage in an activist policy and capitalize on its economic prowess and strategic geopolitical location. It aggressively sought a role in international institutions such as the U.N. Security Council and engaged in all kinds of diplomatic efforts from the Middle East to the Balkans and the Caucasus.

Erdogan and Turkey received many kudos for the Israeli-Syrian talks. But they came to an abrupt end with Israel's Gaza war. Erdogan felt personally betrayed by then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, who was in Ankara four days before launching the Gaza offensive. From then on, Turkish foreign policy vis-&#224;-vis Israel was dramatically transformed.

We first saw this at the January 2009 Davos meetings in Switzerland when Erdogan publicly confronted Israel's President Shimon Peres and then walked off the stage. Positive reactions to his behavior in Turkey and in the Middle East provided Erdogan with the contours of Ankara's new foreign policy.

From then on, in almost every foreign policy speech, Erdogan would disparage Israel's policy in Gaza, calling the Gaza Strip an open prison. He then began to challenge Israel's nuclear arms while defending Iran against the West.

In a deliberate obfuscation of the issues, he argued that instead of criticizing Iran's peaceful nuclear program, it was Israel's not-so-secret nuclear arsenal that ought to be the object of censure.

This, of course, is a distortion of the truth as Iran was accused of violating the Non-Proliferation Treaty, of which it is a signatory while Israel is not. His singling out of Israel was purposeful but unfair; he never criticized Turkish ally Pakistan -- or India for that matter-- for having tested and deployed nuclear arms.

The flotilla crisis occurred in this atmosphere of great tension. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu claims his government cautioned the Islamist charity that organized the flotilla not to cross into Israeli waters and that they were powerless to prevent an independent, non-government organization (NGO) from acting on its own volition. Yet there are many signs that the AKP and other Turkish Islamist parties were fully supportive of the NGO and its efforts.

Hamas itself interpreted the action as an Erdogan-led effort to breach the naval blockade of Gaza.

No one, including the Israelis, could have anticipated the extent of the fallout, although a cursory look at what the organizers were claiming should have made it obvious that the NGO was clearly trying to provoke Israel and elicit an strong response.

Ultimately, it is the incompetence of the Israeli decision-makers who failed to properly analyze the groups' intentions that in many ways handed the AKP, Erdogan and Hamas a public relations victory.

Erdogan has now become a hero in the Arab street. In two years, he has managed to do what few Arab leaders could do -- push Israel into a corner. Even though Arab countries have been mistrustful of Turkey in the past, Erdogan has successfully transformed himself into the leader of the Middle East.

He is not just the defender of traditional Arab concerns but also of Iran, as he is resisting the Obama administration's efforts to impose sanctions on Iran.

The emerging hostility in Israeli-Turkish relations puts the United States in a difficult quandary. Washington does not want to side with one ally over another, and Turkey has aggressively been pushing the United States to do just that.

Washington, however, has issues with both countries.

It is upset at Turkish efforts to protect Iran from further U.N. sanctions and at Israel for making its regional diplomacy so much more difficult, not only with the flotilla fiasco but also with its hard line on the settlements and negotiations with the Palestinians. Turkey may therefore emerge as an even more significant factor in an already complicated Middle East political tapestry.

Turkey emerges as Middle East leader - CNN.com


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

*How Do You Say "Frenemy" in Turkish?*

_Meet America's new rival in the Middle East. _
BY STEVEN A. COOK JUNE 1, 2010





Recently, my colleague and good friend, Charles Kupchan, published a book called How Enemies Become Friends. In it, he argues that diplomatic engagement is decisive in transforming relations between adversaries. It is an interesting read, and the book has received some terrific reviews. Charlie might want to follow up with a new book called How Friends Become Frenemies. He can use the United States and Turkey as his primary case study. 

It is hard to admit, but after six decades of strategic cooperation, Turkey and the United States are becoming strategic competitors -- especially in the Middle East. This is the logical result of profound shifts in Turkish foreign and domestic politics and changes in the international system.

This reality has been driven home by Turkey's angry response to Israel's interdiction of the Istanbul-organized flotilla of ships that tried Monday to break the Israeli blockade of Gaza. After Israel's attempts to halt the vessels resulted in the deaths of at least nine activists, Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu referred to Israel's actions as "murder conducted by a state." The Turkish government also spearheaded efforts at the U.N. Security Council to issue a harsh rebuke of Israel. 

Monday's events might prove a wake-up call for the U.S. foreign-policy establishment. Among the small group of Turkey watchers inside the Beltway, nostalgia rules the day. U.S. officialdom yearns to return to a brief moment in history when Washington and Ankara's security interests were aligned, due to the shared threat posed by the Soviet Union. Returning to the halcyon days of the U.S.-Turkish relationship, however, is increasingly untenable. 

This revelation comes despite the hopes of U.S. President Barack Obama, whose inauguration was greeted with a sigh of relief along both the Potomac and the Bosphorus. Officials in both countries hoped that the Obama administration's international approach, which emphasized diplomatic engagement, multilateralism, and regional stability, would mesh nicely with that of Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party. The White House made it clear from the beginning that Turkey was a priority for Obama, who raised the idea of a "model partnership" between the two countries. Turkey, the theory went, had a set of attributes and assets that it could bring to bear to help the United States achieve its interests in the Middle East, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. Naturally, as a longtime U.S. ally, Turkey was thought to share America's interests in these regions. That was the thinking, anyway. 

A little more than a year after Obama addressed the Turkish Grand National Assembly, Washington seems caught between its attempts to advance this model partnership, and recognition of the reality that Ankara has moved on. This desire to restore close relations with Turkey is partially based on a rose-tinted view of the alliance's glory days; even then, the relationship was often quite difficult, buffeted by Turkey's troubled relations with Greece, Ankara's invasion of Cyprus, and the Armenian-American community's calls for recognition of the 1915 massacres as genocide. Back then, Turkey was a fractious junior partner in the global chess game with the Soviets. Today, Turkey is all grown up, sporting the 16th largest economy in the world, and is coming into its own diplomatically. 

Nowhere is Turkey asserting itself more than in the Middle East, where it has gone from a tepid observer to an influential player in eight short years. In the abstract, Washington and Ankara do share the same goals: peace between Israel and the Palestinians; a stable, unified Iraq; an Iran without nuclear weapons; stability in Afghanistan; and a Western-oriented Syria. When you get down to details, however, Washington and Ankara are on the opposite ends of virtually all these issues. 

For the first time in its history, Ankara has chosen sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, demanding that Israel take steps to ease the blockade of Gaza or risk unspecified "consequences." Well before the recent crisis, the Turks had positioned themselves as thinly veiled advocates for Hamas, which has long been on the U.S. State Department's list of terrorist organizations. In public statements, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has compared Turkey's Islamists and Hamas. Implicit in these declarations is a parallel to Erdogan's own Justice and Development Party, whose predecessors were repeatedly banned from politics. 

This parallel is rather odd. Turkey's Islamists always sought to process their grievances peacefully, while the Islamic Resistance Movement -- Hamas's actual name -- has a history of violence. Ankara's warm embrace of Hamas has not only angered the Israelis, but other U.S. regional allies including Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, and Saudi Arabia. 

Even in Afghanistan, there's less to Turkey's vaunted cooperation than meets the eye. Turkey was the first ally to offer troops to U.S. efforts there in 2001, and more recently, it has doubled its contingent of soldiers to almost 1,700. However, Ankara has consistently -- like other NATO allies -- refused to throw these forces into the fight, even after the Obama administration's entreaties to do more as part of the Afghan "surge." 

Ankara also took a lot of heat from George W. Bush's administration for its good relations with the Syrian regime, though the United States eventually reconciled itself to the logic of Turkey's interests in its southern neighbor. Turkey sees its ties with Syria as a hedge against Kurdish nationalism, believing that brisk cross-border trade will make everyone -- Turks, Kurds, and Syrians -- richer, happier, and less suspicious of one another. The close diplomatic ties have an added benefit for Washington: They give Syrian President Bashar al-Assad someone to talk to other than Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Hezbollah Secretary-General Hassan Nasrallah.


*Friends or Enemies? The U.S. and Turkey - By Steven A. Cook | Foreign Policy*


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## sraja

IBRIS said:


> Will Turkey go for confrontation with Israeli navy.?



I don't think so. Turkey will keep barking. They do not have guts for direct military confrontation with Israel. Meanwhile, Turks should stop living in delusion. Days of ottoman are over.


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## Skeptic

sraja said:


> I don't think so. Turkey will keep barking. They do not have guts for direct military confrontation with Israel. Meanwhile, Turks should stop living in delusion. Days of ottoman are over.



STFU. 
The language used by you is entirely unacceptable and degrading. 
War is not a child's play - where the country will jump in at drop of the hat. War is not about guts but strategy, and so is diplomacy.

Post Reported!!

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## fallstuff

We Are Soldiers said:


> 12 reasons will remain 12 reasons.. You guys will keep on dreaming about that...



Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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## Kompromat

We Are Soldiers said:


> Sounds good but impractical.



Give you an example:

There used to be a Ruthless hindu regime in a country almost 1200 years ago.

They Burnt women alive along with their dead husband , they treated poor like dogs who couldn't even hear the voice of the elite if so they would be Punished .

They used to bury their female kids alive and felt ashamed of having one , they fought amongst themselves and Killed people majority of those "untouchables".

The Evil regime went on for thousands of years oppressing the poor and discriminating against them.

Then they were taken over by another Nation who believed in equality , Justice and harmony for a thousand years.

But the Evil regime came back again somehow now they are Killing mass amount of people in Kashmir , they still are doing what they were doing before.

Burning places of worship , Demolishing the mosques , Taking away the resources of those who are weak.

They support another Evil regime of Israel whatsoever , should i say worship them.


But the evil regimes are going to an end one day --by someone--

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## brahmastra

click the source, check the other articles posted by the author. this article is just the hate speech.

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## IndianArmy

Black Blood said:


> Give you an example:
> 
> There used to be a Ruthless hindu regime in a country almost 1200 years ago.
> 
> They Burnt women alive along with their dead husband , they treated poor like dogs who couldn't even hear the voice of the elite if so they would be Punished .




Sati System was Made a Law By the Kings Of the lands Who ruled Us,Its a false Interpretations of Such Instances In Our Mythology.It came into existence 4000 AD under the Gupta Empire.... it has nothing to do with hinduism,And there were certain communities Who followed this.... And It Hardly exists today....



Black Blood said:


> They used to bury their female kids alive and felt ashamed of having one , they fought amongst themselves and Killed people majority of those "untouchables".




Thats Because of the Large dowries charged for there Daughters, Most of the people were poor during the British rule,as They looted us, Killing of Untouchables Was started By the Brahmins as they considered themselves to Be Upper caste as They were the Ones Who were allowed to Enter temples and Worship the god....



Black Blood said:


> The Evil regime went on for thousands of years oppressing the poor and discriminating against them.




And In those 1000 years muslims were ruling, werent they???

T


Black Blood said:


> hen they were taken over by another Nation who believed in equality , Justice and harmony for a thousand years.




British??? Oh My god, then tell we, not they....We were not divided then.



Black Blood said:


> But the Evil regime came back again somehow now they are Killing mass amount of people in Kashmir , they still are doing what they were doing before.




Thats because of some who send freedom fighters In...Let them stop it and we too would, Army's presence in kashmir wasnt there in 80's, why did the army had to come to Kashmir?? because of terrorism....



Black Blood said:


> Burning places of worship , Demolishing the mosques , Taking away the resources of those who are weak.




May I Know when did these thing happen, if You are talking of Babri Masjid, Then we corrected the History of that place..... 



Black Blood said:


> They support another Evil regime of Israel whatsoever , should i say worship them.




India has Condemned the act of Israel, and Helping Palestine, What has Pakistan done for palestine??? Any Aid??? Please let us all know...



Black Blood said:


> But the evil regimes are going to an end one day --by someone--



*And That some one would Die even if he raises a Finger upon us and that I swear to god....*

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## zagahaga

iam sorry guy but i support isreal noe beacuse we muslims are terriost we are numb headz we did 911 7 7 and 26 11 we all did it ..... we should convert to hinduisum judaisum christianity choose one beacuse islam is nothing but trouble .... i

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## brahmastra

zagahaga said:


> iam sorry guy but i support isreal noe beacuse we muslims are terriost we are numb headz we did 911 7 7 and 26 11 we all did it ..... we should convert to hinduisum judaisum christianity choose one beacuse islam is nothing but trouble .... i



No,only few are terrorists so no need to feel guilty.
yes, all were muslim terrorists who did 9/11, 7/7 and 26/11 but that doesn't mean you need to convert to other religion.

my religion says me that whatever book you read,what ever religion you follow, follow it with full respect and trust and you will be successful.

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## zagahaga

i was being scarcastic


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## brahmastra

zagahaga said:


> i was being scarcastic



me too.


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## zagahaga

shureeeee


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## brahmastra

zagahaga said:


> shureeeee



No hard feelings, come on.
Peace.


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## ambidextrous

Maj. Gel. Tariq khan said:


> We will welcome israel for war thousand time but problem is this if they remain till reach to just our boder, coz if in 1973, sixteen of PAF pilots in YOM KIPPUR WAR. During the coflict, when a secret attack was planed to attack Syrian Dumayr airbase, PAF intercept the Israeli air defence and shot coming aircraft from Israel in Israel soil air, It was MIRAGE IIICJ, shoted down by Flt. Lt. Sattar Alvi using Mig29, Mig aircraft are new to PAF Pilots they didnt use it before, but still best flyed, pilot of downed Israeli Mirage was Capt. M. Lutz, who ejected and remaining Israeli fighter abort the mission. NUR KHAN, who was the wing commander, received praised from ISRAELI PERSIDENT EZER WEIZMAN, WHO WROTE IN HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY THAT: " HE WAS A FORMIDABLE FELLOW AND I WAS GLAD THAT HE WAS PAKISTANI NOT EGYPTIAN".
> If they cant save them from us in 70's and If we can crush their airforce on their soil air in 70's, its 2010 you can think what we make of them now, specialy when they are in our soil for fight... Hahaa



Well...that time is gone brother....Israel now has the most experienced air force in world. The pilots are considered best in world. Don't take them lightly...and only time will show what will happen then..if you two collide again..but if i have to bet i will bet Israel as they have some outstanding technology with one of the best pilots in the world.


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## brahmastra

Its a simple logic.

Israel got nukes.

No one in middle east got nukes.even if all those country joins their hand to attack Israel, Israel might/can/will use nuke.

Pakistan is the only muslim nation who got nukes. But will it use its nukes/power to the war which is NOT pakistan's war,atleast not officially pakistan's war.


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## fire

You gotta be kidding. Who will bomb Israel when Uncle Sam supporting them.....



> A remainder for us that there was a very good reason for us to separeted from them terrorist.


And you need to mind your tongue. Even India has criticized Israel.


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## Marxist

Many countries attacked Israel saying various reasons and some are planning to attack Israel but ISRAEL still there and it will remain there .*survival of the fittest*


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## Spring Onion

gaurish said:


> well u can talk straight forward Israel is a close friend of India and not hamas... so that is not something new , is it?
> 
> And i guess u are with HAMAS.....



Its good that atleast one Bharati has accepted that why India is supporting Israel without mincing words which is good 

I personally have no issue if Bharatis come in open accepting that fact that they are supporting Israel instead of trying to play double face. 


In this fight Yes atleast we will support Hamas because they are fighting for their land which is grabbed by illegitimate Zionists


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## Spring Onion

Marxist said:


> Many countries attacked Israel saying various reasons and some are planning to attack Israel but ISRAEL still there and it will remain there .*survival of the fittest*



USSR was also one of the fittest


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## Marxist

Jana said:


> USSR was also one of the fittest



*survival of the fittest* is a biological term,USSR divided but Russia is still strong


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## Spring Onion

Marxist said:


> *survival of the fittest* is a biological term,USSR divided but Russia is still strong



 Indeed but not that powerful besides Israel is not Russia. Once its banged it wont be able to stand strongly.


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## Fireurimagination

Jana said:


> Its good that atleast one Bharati has accepted that why India is supporting Israel without mincing words which is good
> 
> I personally have no issue if Bharatis come in open accepting that fact that they are supporting Israel instead of trying to play double face.
> 
> 
> In this fight Yes atleast we will support Hamas because they are fighting for their land which is grabbed by illegitimate Zionists



Okay, here is another one, I do respect Israel for it's no nonsense policy towards it's national security. They Israeli government and people too don't care what is right and what is wrong when it comes to the well being of their citizens and that's the way it should be. It may be the wall that keeps the suicide bombers out or the overwhelming use of force to keep the rockets out.

If India would have been even 10&#37; of what they are, we wouldn't be taking hit after hit after hit from these moronic terrorists

ps: what is bharati?


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## Marxist

Jana said:


> Indeed but not that powerful besides Israel is not Russia. Once its banged it wont be able to stand strongly.



ya but need some one powerful is need to attack Israel ,otherwise History will repeat (probably).


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## ek_indian

It is clear case of braindead hate articles. Please have a look at reason 1 and 2. They are not the reason at all.

Those who say we are supporting Israel. India has offically declared support to Turkey and opposed Israel for recent incident. Interesting part is, everyone else seems satisfied with India except.....


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## Owais

gaurish said:


> so why there are any reasons to BOMB Israel.. are there no people living there... are there no families there... so Will it be a humanitarian effort to bomb Israel?
> India will have 10 reasons to bomb Pakistan
> Pakistan will have 20 reasons to bomb India
> Russia will have 100 reasons to bomb USA
> 
> Is it all worth????
> 
> What is this thread all about...



I think you just born in this world
Israel was built on PHALESTINIAN Land. after balford decleration but satans of that times, jews started to shift from europe to phalestine and then in 1948, they throw arabs out and declare imposter state of israel. from then, Israel ahve gained its territories by illegally attacking arab countries. you think thats fair?? if so, then answer me, what if I come to mumbai, call other foreigners to shift there and after some time, I throw you out and declare Independance from your Baharat??


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## Comet

I dont care if anyone Bomb Israel or not. All I care is that the people of Gaza get help. They need it desperately !

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## psychedelic_renegade

I dont care a **** about Israel or any other middle-east nations, but I really don't know why people not getting banned when they are calling India terrorist nation. Same thing if told about Pakistan I dont think treatment will be same.

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## username

Al-zakir said:


> Notice how bharati taking *zionist *side. A reminder for us that there was *a very good reason for us to separeted from them terrorist.*



Are you living in opposite world ? Why most terrorist attacks include people of Pakistani origin / related to Pakistan ? Are you from a country full of peace lovers ?


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## username

Owais said:


> I think you just born in this world
> Israel was built on PHALESTINIAN Land. after balford decleration but satans of that times, jews started to shift from europe to phalestine and then in 1948, they throw arabs out and declare imposter state of israel. from then, Israel ahve gained its territories by illegally attacking arab countries. you think thats fair?? if so, then answer me, what if I come to mumbai, call other foreigners to shift there and after some time, I throw you out and declare Independance from your *Baharat*??



Please give extra care when writing the name of a country... 
It sometimes offends other people...

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## Ahmad

No need to bomb israel, they have the right to exist as much as the palestinians and others do. But they must be held accountable for their criminal actions, there must justice and peace for both sides. Blood of palestinians mustnt be less red than the israelis. At last, the US must abondan the unjust and biased policy in the middle east.

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## ek_indian

^^^

Finally a reasonable comment.


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## AstanoshKhan

*How should Muslims respond to this latest act of manifest Israeli provocation?
*
Muslims around the world must first make the case that mankind should not and cannot condone Israels starvation of an entire civilian population in Gaza and the unjust killing of innocent people in international waters as morally acceptable conduct of a State in the modern age.

They should then launch a do-or-die struggle to rid themselves of the pro-Israeli Egyptian, Saudi, Pakistani (and other) governments and Armed Forces that control the world of Islam on behalf of the enemies of Islam and of mankind.

*The way these governments respond to Israels latest attack will expose the kind of response we can expect from them as events continue to mysteriously unfold leading quite predictably to the world-war that Israel desperately wants to provoke.*

Such governments and Armed Forces in the Muslim world must not be allowed to continue their dirty work on Israels behalf. They have built their own Berlin Walls to protect themselves from their own people. They have sponsored their own so-called experts to hoodwink and deceive the Muslim masses into embracing them as champions of Islam who, with help from Disneyland, will soon conquer India.

Unless and until those neo- Berlin Walls protecting the Egyptian, Saudi and Pakistani governments and Armed Forces are demolished, the ropes around the necks of Muslims will continue to become tighter and yet tighter.

An excerpt from...

Israel's Piracy, Gaza's Starvartion and our Berlin Walls


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## AstanoshKhan

double post...


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## Frankenstein

Fireurimagination said:


> Okay, here is another one, I do respect Israel for it's no nonsense policy towards it's national security. They Israeli government and people too don't care what is right and what is wrong when it comes to the well being of their citizens and that's the way it should be. It may be the wall that keeps the suicide bombers out or the overwhelming use of force to keep the rockets out.
> 
> If India would have been even 10% of what they are, we wouldn't be taking hit after hit after hit from these moronic terrorists
> 
> ps: what is bharati?



Terrorists State cant attack on there own people, can they??


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## sraja

rameez ahmed said:


> the Holy Prophet (SA) said:
> 
> *"surely you will fight the jews and surely you kill them. And on that day even the stones will speak O MUSLIM !!! there is a jew hiding behind me.So come and kill him"*​
> (Sahih Bukhari)
> 
> Muslims victory over jews has already been told by our Prophet (SA). So muslims should continue their struggle against Israel.



With this kind of hateful verses embedded in Islamic literature, Peace is never possible.

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## Frankenstein

Ahmad said:


> No need to bomb israel, t*hey have the right to exist* as much as the palestinians and others do. But they must be held accountable for their criminal actions, there must justice and peace for both sides. Blood of palestinians mustnt be less red than the israelis. At last, the US must abondan the unjust and biased policy in the middle east.



They have the right to exist, but not on others land


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## arya-is-here

WAQAS119 said:


> world should nuke their a$$ only then world will become peaceful place.



you are forgetting the cause of terror in the world 

which nation ???


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## tinguzzz

---------------------------


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## Ahmad

Frankenstein said:


> They have the right to exist, but not on others land



exactly, that is what i meant.


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## Ahmad

tinguzzz said:


> 1.2 billion muslim can't do any thing....Isreal rockzzz...



you are right, israel is so powerful despite their very low number, but do you think it is moral , human and ethical to supres other people? forget about the power for now. Dont forget that Adolf Hitler was also powerful, didnt we see how he supresed the innocent jews? British empire was also so low in pouplation, but didnt we see they supresed india with its huge population and huge land?


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## Bang Galore

Maj. Gel. Tariq khan said:


> We will welcome israel for war thousand time but problem is this if they remain till reach to just our boder, coz if in 1973, sixteen of PAF pilots in YOM KIPPUR WAR. During the coflict, when a secret attack was planed to attack Syrian Dumayr airbase, PAF intercept the Israeli air defence and shot coming aircraft from Israel in Israel soil air, It was MIRAGE IIICJ, shoted down by Flt. Lt. Sattar Alvi using *Mig29*, Mig aircraft are new to PAF Pilots they didnt use it before, but still best flyed, pilot of downed Israeli Mirage was Capt. M. Lutz, who ejected and remaining Israeli fighter abort the mission. NUR KHAN, who was the wing commander, received praised from ISRAELI PERSIDENT EZER WEIZMAN, WHO WROTE IN HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY THAT: " HE WAS A FORMIDABLE FELLOW AND I WAS GLAD THAT HE WAS PAKISTANI NOT EGYPTIAN".
> If they cant save them from us in 70's and If we can crush their airforce on their soil air in 70's, its 2010 you can think what we make of them now, specialy when they are in our soil for fight... Hahaa




No wonder the Pakistani pilots thrashed the Israelis. They had the Mig 29 didn't they? No chance for the Israelis at all. Poor guys! How could they fight against a Mig 29 in 1973 *especially when the Russians who built it only got it into service in 1983.* That would also explain why the Pakistanis were unfamiliar with the aircraft. After all, who can be familiar with a aircraft that was yet to be built?

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## Frankenstein

tinguzzz said:


> 1.2 billion muslim can't do any thing....Isreal rockzzz...



You Gota give the credit to United Nations and its puppet Master USA, there wont be any human rights violation with in the non-Muslims countries, Bravo


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## deepak75

Bang Galore said:


> No wonder the Pakistani pilots thrashed the Israelis. They had the Mig 29 didn't they? No chance for the Israelis at all. *Poor guys! How could they fight against a Mig 29 in 1973 especially when the Russians who built it only got into service in 1983. That would also explain why the Pakistanis were unfamiliar with the aircraft. After all, who can be familiar with a aircraft that was yet to be built?*



Pre-teething problems I would assume. *To err is hunam.*


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## Bang Galore

Black Blood said:


> Give you an example:
> 
> There used to be a Ruthless hindu regime in a country almost 1200 years ago.
> 
> They Burnt women alive along with their dead husband , they treated poor like dogs who couldn't even hear the voice of the elite if so they would be Punished .
> 
> They used to bury their female kids alive and felt ashamed of having one , they fought amongst themselves and Killed people majority of those "untouchables".
> 
> The Evil regime went on for thousands of years oppressing the poor and discriminating against them.
> 
> Then they were taken over by another Nation who believed in equality , Justice and harmony for a thousand years.
> 
> But the Evil regime came back again somehow now they are Killing mass amount of people in Kashmir , they still are doing what they were doing before.
> 
> Burning places of worship , Demolishing the mosques , Taking away the resources of those who are weak.
> 
> They support another Evil regime of Israel whatsoever , should i say worship them.
> 
> 
> But the evil regimes are going to an end one day --by someone--




You know, you do a great disservice to Abdul Sattar Edhi by using his image as your avatar & holding views like this.

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## tinguzzz

Frankenstein said:


> You Gota give the credit to United Nations and its puppet Master USA, there wont be any human rights violation with in the non-Muslims countries, Bravo



Why dont you muslim countries make their own force some thing like NATO.... and then attack Isreal......


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## Kompromat

tinguzzz said:


> Why dont you muslim countries make their own force some thing like NATO.... and then attack Isreal......



Sounds Like a Good Idea.


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## ARCHON

Bang Galore said:


> You know, you do a great disservice to Abdul Sattar Edhi by using his image as your avatar & holding views like this.



The great man was born in Gujarat and spend his life till the age of 20 in here.


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## Frankenstein

Bang Galore said:


> No wonder the Pakistani pilots thrashed the Israelis. They had the Mig 29 didn't they? No chance for the Israelis at all. Poor guys! How could they fight against a Mig 29 in 1973 *especially when the Russians who built it only got it into service in 1983.* That would also explain why the Pakistanis were unfamiliar with the aircraft. After all, who can be familiar with a aircraft that was yet to be built?



Might be a typo,* they used mig 21 and yes Pakistan was unfamiliar with it no doubt about that* (they ordered F7 in 1988 Chinese version of mig 21), you are acting like a real a$$

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## harish

tinguzzz said:


> 1.2 billion muslim can't do any thing....Isreal rockzzz...



Brother that's a really crappy thing to say. Yes, Israel is a good friend. But over 200 million of those 1.2 billion you refer to are our own people. Please respect that. I really wish you would delete this post.

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## ARCHON

tinguzzz said:


> 1.2 billion muslim can't do any thing....Isreal rockzzz...



watch your mouth .Kiddd.


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## tinguzzz

birdofprey said:


> watch your mouth .Kiddd.



itzz... nothing to watch...what I have written is truth....
But firbhi I apologize....

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## rameez ahmed

sraja said:


> With this kind of hateful verses embedded in Islamic literature, Peace is never possible.



These verses are for those jews who will be the enemy of Muslims... Surely Israel is the Enemy of Islam....

So to maintain Peace, Israel should start to maintain peace in Palestine otherwise it will keep on facing the threats and attacks that its facing today....

If they don't kill innocent muslims, then the muslims will not be against them and try to destroy them.. thats the point... But if they keep on doing their terrorism, they will face the same fate as I state in my post.... 

Muslims don't have doubt about that because it is the Saying of Prophet Muhammad (SA)... IT WILL become true for those jews who are enemies of Islam and are conspiring against them and killing muslims.....


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## third eye

Black Blood said:


> Give you an example:
> 
> There used to be a Ruthless hindu regime in a country almost 1200 years ago.
> 
> They Burnt women alive along with their dead husband , they treated poor like dogs who couldn't even hear the voice of the elite if so they would be Punished .
> 
> They used to bury their female kids alive and felt ashamed of having one , they fought amongst themselves and Killed people majority of those "untouchables".
> 
> The Evil regime went on for thousands of years oppressing the poor and discriminating against them.
> 
> Then they were taken over by another Nation who believed in equality , Justice and harmony for a thousand years.
> 
> But the Evil regime came back again somehow now they are Killing mass amount of people in Kashmir , they still are doing what they were doing before.
> 
> Burning places of worship , Demolishing the mosques , Taking away the resources of those who are weak.
> 
> They support another Evil regime of Israel whatsoever , should i say worship them.
> 
> 
> But the evil regimes are going to an end one day --by someone--



If there were a prize for a post that was most irrelevant & misplaced - this one would win.

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## Frankenstein

third eye said:


> If there were a prize for a post that was most irrelevant & misplaced - this one would win.



another BS one liner, keeps on hearing from Indians when they are out of words


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

Fast writing mistake, it Mig 21, but it reality, Dont take PAF easy on the base of tecnology.. They also have record of hiting 5 Indian airforce aircraft in less then a minute.. It dose not matter that wat you fly f-16 or f-86.. The matter who flying.. PAF have history of records


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## third eye

Frankenstein said:


> another BS one liner, keeps on hearing from Indians when they are out of words



The mail commented on deserves no more comment than what was made.


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## Frankenstein

Maj. Gel. Tariq khan said:


> Fast writing mistake, it Mig 21, but it reality, Dont take PAF easy on the base of tecnology..* They also have record of hiting 5 Indian airforce aircraft in less then a minute.*. It dose not matter that wat you fly f-16 or f-86.. The matter who flying.. PAF have history of records



Dont need to reply em budy, he will say, obviously Indian Airforce cant make such a record by hitting 5 of there Indian aircrafts ( which actually they can  ), *by his logic*, some people have limited minds

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## Ahmad

tinguzzz said:


> Why dont you muslim countries make their own force some thing like NATO.... and then attack Isreal......



you didnt give an answer to my question. you might be indian or israeli, and i gave you 2 examples about both.


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

And yea, people say that why Pakistan didnt attack Israel if Pakistan is stronger than Israel. Fact is that we dont want to became Israel. They kill only those who are weak from them, e.g they distroyed Iraq nuclear facility but same year Pakistan has built its nuclear facility but they didnt distory it, why? Coz they know Iraq is not stronger but Pakistan is, and the reaction from Pakistan will massive. Pakistan only fight will stronger like India which is 3 time stronger in quantity (but not in quality), USSR thousand time stronger in quantity (but not in quality)


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

frankenstein, thanx. Just want to hug you

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## sulemani keeda

> Twelve Reasons for the International Community to Bomb Israel



Its funny that you people still depend on "International community" to "bomb Israel".

If muslim ummah has so much issue with Israel and if they have even 1&#37; guts of what they like to portray then go ahead and bomb them and see what happens. 

Why bigmouthing here and there and asking some other fellows who dont care a damn about Israels doings, to bomb them??

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## intelarpit

Al-zakir said:


> *Twelve Reasons for the International Community to Bomb Israel*
> 
> Wednesday June 02 2010 23:03:29 PM BDT
> 
> 
> By Yamin Zakaria , UK
> 
> 
> "Maybe because we all grew used to seeing the Israelis kill Arabs, maybe the Israelis grew used to killing Arabs. Now they kill Turks" (Robert Fisk)
> 
> 1--Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction; Iran or any of the other peaceful countries in the region does not have any nuclear weapons, except Israel.
> 
> 2---Israel refuses to become a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and denies international inspection of its nuclear weapons; the recent declassified documents shows Israel offered nuclear weapons to the old apartheid regime of South Africa. One can see Israelâs natural affinity towards another racist regime; it is a clear threat to the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
> 
> 3---Iran has not attacked any of its neighbours, whereas Israel has constantly attacked its neighbour, and repeatedly in some cases, killing thousands of innocent civilians. It has now sent two of its submarine equipped with nuclear weapons to the coast of Iran. In the words of Norman Finkelstein, Israel is a lunatic state, armed with nuclear weapons, constitutes a real threat to the peace and security in the region.
> 
> 4---Israel has been violating UN resolutions almost from its illegitimate birth in 1948, and it continues to steal lands by building illegal settlement in the West Bank. Israel is a bastard child that fails to see the legitimate fathers of the land; they are the Palestinians.
> 
> 5---Israel operates like the criminal mafia organisation, resorts to cowardly assassination; recently it murdered the Hamas commander in Dubai, and earlier Sheikh Ahmed Yasin.
> 
> 6---The Gaza slaughter in 2009 has been certified as a war crime by the UN Judge, Richard Goldstein, where Israel broke the norms of warfare and used chemical weapons on the civilian population, attacked ambulances carrying the dead and injured. They killed 1500 Palestinians, bulk of them innocent women and children.
> 
> 7--Israels disregard for the UN goes beyond ignoring UN resolutions; it attacked the UN compound during the carnage in Gaza. It also attacked and killed Journalists.
> 
> 8---Israel has an official policy of ethnic cleansing; accordingly, it systematically targets Palestinian women and children. This is partly because the Palestinian population is growing at a much faster rate, and the Israelis cannot compete on demographic front, perhaps the Zionist seeds are weak; this is compounded by a religion that emphasises on racial exclusivity.
> 
> 9---Israel is not the democracy of the Middle East, but symbolises tyranny and oppression that has no place in the civilised world. It regularly demolishes Palestinian homes and continues to prevent the building of basic facilities; thus, deprive them of the most basic human rights. Far from being a democracy, Israel displays all the traits of a Fascist state that has no regard for anyone else.
> 
> 10---Israel is a racist state that practices hate and intolerance of non-Jews. The policy of the right to return means, any Jew can come and occupy the Arab land, whereas the Palestinians displaced in 1948 cannot return, which is a clear violation of international law.
> 
> 11---Israel is responsible for creating the largest concentration camp of Gaza by the illegal blockade placed over it for the last three years, which the Amnesty International has called a flagrant violation of international law. It defies belief that these were the people put in concentration camp by the Nazis only 60 years ago, yet they find it so easy to treat other human beings in a similar way.
> 
> 12---Now, Israel has shamefully attacked a peace convoy in international water, killing innocent peace activists carrying aid for the desperate people of Gaza. Subsequently, Israeli authority imprisoned the activists, which is akin to holding them as hostages.
> 
> Why was there a need to conduct the raid in the middle of the night using live ammunition, instead of rubber bullets? Those boats would have come to the ports, and the Israelis could have easily inspected the boats for weapons. In any case, the boats had already passed through several European ports and cleared by customs. Maybe Israel has become accustomed to attacking the weak and defenceless, but it is the shame in seeing that many people around the world coming to break the criminal siege of Gaza that prompted the shameless Israelis to react in a shameful way.
> 
> If this were Iran or any other Muslim nation, condemnation would have been swift; the US would have been preparing to send bombing raids, the politicians and the media would have made the usual howling noise about terrorism and militancy, demonising the entire civilisation of Islam. The initial reaction from the US shows great caution, rather than a single word of condemnation for the murderous acts of Israel.
> 
> So, where is the will of the international community now? The arrogant US always talks as the âinternational communityâ when it speaks to Iran. However, the real international community has spoken today in response to Israeli terrorism and piracy, as they did over the Gaza carnage. Will the UN Security Council reflect the voice of the real international community now? Unlikely, because the US will most likely use its veto power to protect the tiny pariah nation, and ignore the voice of the majority nations, in line with its democratic credential!
> 
> A military response of Israel needs to be met with a military response, and it would be within Turkeyâs right to bomb Tel-Aviv. At the very least, Turkey should demand compensation, UN sanctions, and the extradition of the Israeli soldiers responsible for the crimes committed in the international waters.
> 
> Peace cannot take place without justice; Israel is an obvious obstacle to peace. It is time for the real international community to demand the current international trend of bombing a nation, to bring about a regime change. Israel has committed war crimes, state terrorism, piracy, theft of land, murder of innocent civilians, assassination, ethnic cleansing. Why should it be any different for Israel? Bringing Israel to account would be the first step to bring about real justice, which would allow real peace to prevail in the region.
> 
> Yamin Zakaria
> E Mail : yamin@radicalviews.org
> London, UK
> Published 1/06/2010
> RadicalViews.org
> A Moderate View in a Radical World
> 
> http://www.bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidRecord=320714



1. No reason at all. Having WMD doesnnot mean one shd attack that country. There are 7 other countries with those nukes

2. Even India and Pakistan has not signed NPT and CTBT...so these nations shd be bombed...what a logic??

3. So u wanna protect Iran?? Invalid reason.

4. Each and every country which does not follow UN resolution should be bombed...where are India and Pakistan in this list?? No reason at all.

5. Ye kab hua...No idea

6. Finally one sane reason to attack.

7. ??

8. Any proof?? As a record there are many nations where the population of minorities decreased. This is not a reason to attack a country.

9. Israel is not ruled my Military Generals.

10. Even India and pakistan has that kind of law.

11. People living in those camps have very high standard of living compared to India and pakistan.

12. Good reason to attack


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## vishalgutsy

we are not oblivious of the plight of the Palestinians. 
However, unlike palestininas we dont think driving the Jews to the sea is the solution. Israelis have always been ready to negotiate, but the Palestinians want nothing short of destruction of Israel. This does not seem to be a viable solution.

---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------

There will be peace in Palestine the day Palestinians put down their arms and start negotiating on equal terms. This is not happening because they hate the Jews gutturally.


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## Comet

vishalgutsy said:


> we are not oblivious of the plight of the Palestinians.
> However, unlike palestininas we dont think driving the Jews to the sea is the solution. Israelis have always been ready to negotiate,* but the Palestinians want nothing short of destruction of Israel. * This does not seem to be a viable solution.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 PM ----------
> 
> There will be peace in Palestine the day Palestinians *put down their arms* and start negotiating on equal terms. This is not happening because they hate the Jews gutturally.



There is difference in wanting and doing. Palestinians want destruction(by your argument) but Isreali's "are" destroying.

By Arm you mean the stones kids throw at the tanks? Yes they should put down those stones. Stones aren't very good against tanks and stuff.


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## vishalgutsy

The reason Israel destroyed the houses of the Palestinian suicide bombers, was for deterrence. In those days Saddam Hussein and many Arabs used to pay a lot of money to the families of the suicide bombers. This made suicide bombing an attractive trade for one who wanted to help his poor family. He would kill the Israelis and go to heaven to bang celestial whores and his family would live a better life. Destroying their houses reduced the number of attacks. However, with the erection of the wall these suicide bombings have also been reduced in number.
I am also puzzled that you dont see anything wrong in the act suicide bombing and killing Israeli civilians but think the destruction of a house made of brick and mortar is a major tragedy. There seem to be something skewed in your judgement. 
What concerns me is why you are so worried about the Palestinians and not about other Muslims that are being butchered by fellow Muslims in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, etc?

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## vishalgutsy

i said this on another thread as well.
The war in the Middle East is not over land. It is over religious beliefs.
muslims hate jews so gutterly that they dont wanna see them alive.((obviously this doesnt include 100 %)

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## vishalgutsy

palestine is actually a land of jews. palestinians have no right over that land.


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## vishalgutsy

Hamas terrorists keep shelling Israeli populated towns and the world accepts this while if a Palestinian civilian is killed collaterally, Israelis are to be blamed, even though these civilians are deliberately places close to the shelling stations for the purpose of making them martyrs.
these people have have no conscience. They commit any crime just to win. When the winning is the goal every heinous act is justifiable. They think their children will be sent to paradise so it is okay if they are killed. They know they cannot win this war militarily, so they are waging a war of propaganda through victimization game at the cost of sacrificing their own children. How despicable! How low these people have descended.


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## TOPGUN

12-11 reasons REASON # 1> a state out of control killing humans everyday like they are trash shall any more reasons be stated and plus the show they put on just a few days ago against the turkish ship should be a eye opener for the world i rest my case .


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> palestine is actually a land of jews. palestinians have no right over that land.



You need to do some serious homework speak out of knowledge rather then showing love for israel go read the histroy books boy then come back and state something that makes sense.


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## vishalgutsy

Israel is a country of 7.3 million people. Only Tehran has twice as many inhabitants. Despite that Israel has withstood all the attacks from Arabs. But no country is invincible. Israel can be obliterated in a nuclear attack. That is why they have to do what they have to do. Israelis have nowhere to go. They have to fight to the end.
But why do stupid things? Why instead of this much hate, u people talk peace with them..??

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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> i said this on another thread as well.
> The war in the Middle East is not over land. It is over religious beliefs.
> muslims hate jews so gutterly that they dont wanna see them alive.((obviously this doesnt include 100 &#37



Who made you the world speaker and jews hate muslims so.. are you going to fix that just shut it up you have no idea what the hell you are talking trying to cause tensions here you seem fresh out of hatched egg..


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> You need to do some serious homework speak out of knowledge rather then showing love for israel go read the histroy books boy then come back and state something that makes sense.



i never claimed i am a history professor.
if u have better knwoledge of history then plz tell me who were the actual inhibitants of that land.???
u wanna prove me wrong..???
plz try...


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> Who made you the world speaker and jews hate muslims so.. are you going to fix that just shut it up you have no idea what the hell you are talking trying to cause tensions here you seem fresh out of hatched egg..



why instead of replying to my arguements , ure trying to insult me ?


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## bc040400065

*Turkey of no interest to us, says Israeli foreign minister *

JASON KOUTSOUKIS 
June 5, 2010



The Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, is willing to consider easing the blockade on the Gaza Strip but has vowed not to allow any protest ships to reach the impoverished Palestinian territory.

As pressure continued to mount for an international commission of inquiry into Israel's interception of a Gaza-bound aid flotilla of six ships on Monday that resulted in the deaths of nine passengers on board the Turkish ferry Mavi Marmara, the Israeli Foreign Minister, Avigdor Lieberman, declared that Turkey was ''simply of no interest'' to Israel.

He added that while Turkey once may have been a friend of Israel, ''internal changes in Turkish society'' had caused a split similar to that between Israel and Iran after the Islamic Revolution there in 1979.



''We didn't start this provocation, we did not send bullies with knives and metal rods to Turkey,'' he said. ''The entire blame, all of it, from beginning to end, is that of Turkey. We have nothing to apologise for.''

Turkey's President, Abdullah Gul, has warned that Israel would regret this week's events, and relations between the two countries would never be the same.

Eight Turks and an American of Turkish origin were killed in Israel's raid on the flotilla, Turkey's Anatolia news agency reported.

On Thursday, thousands of mourners in Istanbul hailed the dead activists as martyrs, hoisting their coffins to cheers of "God is great".

Turkey has declared diplomatic war on Israel, with Ankara recalling its ambassador to Israel and freezing all business deals with Israel in the fields of energy and water, but not a number of agreements to buy Israeli-made weapons systems.

An Israeli Navy investigation of the events on board the Mavi Marmara said activists tried to take captive three Israeli commandos whom they had beaten unconscious. The three were dragged below deck and held there for several minutes.

After dozens of other commandos began searching the ship, the three soldiers regained consciousness and managed to join their comrades.

The Israeli Navy has rejected claims that it was poorly prepared, and officials have commended the commandos' performance in a situation in which they were confronted by activists who attacked them as they rappelled from helicopters.

''They were terrorists, hired killers who came to murder soldiers, not to assist the residents of the Gaza Strip,'' one navy officer told the Israeli newspaper Haaretz.

Among the steps Israel is reportedly willing to take to ease the blockade is to allow civilian goods, particularly food items and humanitarian equipment, to enter Gaza more easily.


Benjamin Netanyahu to consider easing the blockade


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> i never claimed i am a history professor.
> if u have better knwoledge of history then plz tell me who were the actual inhibitants of that land.???
> u wanna prove me wrong..???
> plz try...



Good then don't act like a school teacher cuz you don't know jack.. moving along as i stated you need to do some homework and see to whom this land belonged too before it was given to israel.. the jews had no land they were all over europe.. and other places simple as that gain some knowledge by reading up since you are online rather then arguing about something you have no idea about and stop trolling or you will find your self out of here real quick.


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## vishalgutsy

topgun.

simple question.
plz tell me truthfull doesnt muslims hate jews..???
plz dnt try to give any diplomatic answer..??


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> Good then don't act like a school teacher cuz you don't know jack.. moving along as i stated you need to do some homework and see to whom this land belonged too before it was given to israel.. the jews had no land they were all over europe.. and other places simple as that gain some knowledge by reading up since you are online rather then arguing about something you have no idea about and stop trolling or you will find your self out of here real quick.



WRONG

The Jews have historic right over Israel. There is a detailed history about them, and not just their own that traces them to that land for almost $3,500 years. Many ancient towns in Israel, like Jerusalem, Bethlehem, etc, still have Hebrew names. In fact the Quranic stories narrated by Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) about Moses and the Israelites, confirm that the Jews called that part of land home at least 2000 years before Islam was invented.

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 PM ----------

The truth is that the Jews never deserted Israel completely. Many of them have been living there forever. But their land was under the domination of other powers, such as the Romans, the Caliphs of Islam and the Ottoman Empire.


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> why instead of replying to my arguements , ure trying to insult me ?



Iam not insulting you iam just responding in the manner you deserve look at what you are writting you seem to think its ok to say such hatful things as muslims hate jews.. dude i have friends that are jews you are making it a one sided affair and you think i will let you do that hell no iam behind you . Plus the facts are that this land was not the jews and you need to read up once you stop trolling i will stop jumping on your back talk about peace and friendship share views in a proper decent respectful manner rather then stating things that are fake understand its only fair.

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## vishalgutsy

You ask what about the Palestinians. That is a fair question. But who are the Palestinians? Palestinians are partly Egyptians and partly Jordanians. They are not people of the land. Most of them are recent migrants. Palestine is a region. There has never been a country called Palestine for you to say Israelis have stolen our lands. And the Palestinians have enough land to build their country and live happily.

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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> topgun.
> 
> simple question.
> plz tell me truthfull doesnt muslims hate jews..???
> plz dnt try to give any diplomatic answer..??



Hey wake up sleeping birdy look at the news look what is happening in that part of the world dumbo.. they hate each other simple as that iam not wasting my time on you anymore its patheic but stop the trolling cuz here you wont get far trust me.


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> Iam not insulting you iam just responding in the manner you deserve look at what you are writting you seem to think its ok to say such hatful things as muslims hate jews.. dude i have friends that are jews you are making it a one sided affair and you think i will let you do that hell no iam behind you . Plus the facts are that this land was not the jews and you need to read up once you stop trolling i will stop jumping on your back talk about peace and friendship share views in a proper decent respectful manner rather then stating things that are fake understand its only fair.



As a matter of fact Jews had no intention of returning to Israel. After the enlightenment the Christian countries opened up to the Jews and the Jews strived to integrate in the society. Jewish intellectuals in Germany called Germany their new Zion.
However, hatred was brewing in the hearts of many Europeans who backed Hitler to exterminate the Jews.
After the horrors of the holocaust became known it was clear that Jews must have a homeland. Even Einstein, who at first was opposed to the idea, backed the plan. The obvious place was their ancestral land. If you call this a myth, you are calling prophet Muhammad(pbuh) a liar. They were not given Israel because their god had promissed them that land, but because historically it was thiers.


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> iam not wasting my time on you anymore its patheic but stop the trolling cuz here you wont get far trust me.



why instead of replying to my arguements , ure threatning to get me banned...???
is this all u can do...??


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> why instead of replying to my arguements , ure threatning to get me banned...???
> is this all u can do...??



Cause you are a hater i can see it right through your words its people like you that don't want peace & friendship .. today you are trolling on this thread tommrow you will troll on a thread with a india , Pakistan issue. You stated things you don't know such muslims hate jews.. you are using the word muslim as the whole muslim world pop hates jews WRONG. Second you are arguing about the land issue while its in the history books what took place i told you read up yet you are trolling. I have nothing against you but don't think you will come here and insult us or this site what i can do or what i cant i wont get in to but i wont waste my time on you now stop the bs and go read up to learn what are the facts stop writting to me cuz its patheic.


----------



## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> Cause you are a hater i can see it right through your words its people like you that don't want peace & friendship .. today you are trolling on this thread tommrow you will troll on a thread with a india , Pakistan issue. You stated things you don't know such muslims hate jews.. you are using the word muslim as the whole muslim world pop hates jews WRONG. Second you are arguing about the land issue while its in the history books what took place i told you read up yet you are trolling. I have nothing against you but don't think you will come here and insult us or this site what i can do or what i cant i wont get in to but i wont waste my time on you now stop the bs and go read up to learn what are the facts stop writting to me cuz its patheic.




so according to ure twisted sense of morality , expressing my opinion over a internet forum is spreading hatred..???
its better that u have taken off ure mask so early , the world can see that u cant talk logically , cant make logical arguements .

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## vishalgutsy

in none of my posts i have insulted anyone .
its just u who cant make any logical arguements , so ure bursting over me , and threatining me with a ban.


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## vishalgutsy

topgun

i follow the Golden Rule. This is not something u are familiar with. The principle behind the Golden Rule is, not to treat others the way you don&#8217;t want to be treated.
I put myself in the shoes of others and ask what if I was born in their place. How would I want to be treated if I were them? This is why I support the Jews and their rights to a homeland. 
Jews can live anywhere and thousands of years living as second class citizens has thought them that life can be harsh. They learned that if they don&#8217;t strive hard they starve. People in the past were crueler than they are today. so Jews went after science, knowledge and business and succeeded in life. Despite all the discrimination, thanks to thier experties, they were finacially better off than the majority. However, their success also had its downside. The losers often felt envious and made the Jews escepgoats for thier own miseries. They spread hate against the Jews, telling stories such as Jews want to take over the world, they invented the fable of the Elders of Zion, and other lies. Considering the lessons of history it is important that these people have a place that they can call home and be safe.

If the Palestinians cannot tolerate Jews, they can go back to where they came from. They actually did that but once in Jordan they plotted to overthrow the government of King Hussein until he buchered them by thousands and kicked them out of his country.


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> in none of my posts i have insulted anyone .
> its just u who cant make any logical arguements , so ure bursting over me , and threatining me with a ban.



I have stated everything in pure logical words even a damn baby can understand that i know what iam talking about. furtermore, you are a hater & that topic you wont talk about huh ? yes i know its ok you will be watched iam not threating you but will make sure you dont get to share you hate here to cause tensions between members . We have some indian members here to that dont show hate nor share it. For you to state a stupid and dumb low down comment about all muslims that we hate jews you are wrong and have no damn clue what you are saying in that part of the region they hate each other thats why the are killing each other. You need to learn alot before speaking out anyhow as i said iam done with you dont write back to me.


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## vishalgutsy

Some years ago, I met an Israeli and a Palestinian who were close friends, in Canada. One day jokingly I said to them, you are an odd couple! Aren&#8217;t you two supposed to be enemies to each other? They laughed and said, &#8220;We are not religious.&#8221; I thought that was the most eloquent response. Yes this hatred and war is about religion.


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> I have stated everything in pure logical words even a damn baby can understand that i know what iam talking about. furtermore, you are hater that you wont talk about huh ? yes i know its ok you will be watched iam not threating you but will make sure you dont get to share you hate here to cause tensions between members . We have some indian members here to that dont show hate nor share it. For you to state a stupid and dumb low down comment about muslims that we hate jews you are wrong and have no damn clue what you are saying in that part of the region they hate each other thats why the are killing each other. You need to learn alot before speaking out anyhow as i said iam done with you dont write back to me.




yes many indians dont follow my opinion , and they are perfectly entitled to have their own opinion.
im not forcing them to be on my side.

and about giving logical replies , u have yet not given a single reply to any of my arguements.face it big boy.


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> yes many indians dont follow my opinion , and they are perfectly entitled to have their own opinion.
> im not forcing them to be on my side.
> 
> and about giving logical replies , u have yet not given a single reply to any of my arguements.face it big boy.



Yes big iam perhaps so dont make me slap you around little boy so just shut it and stop writting to me dumb a$$ hater...

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## vishalgutsy

ok topgun , tell me acoording to u vat should be the solution to this middle east problem..??


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## Swift

TOPGUN said:


> Yes big iam perhaps so dont make me slap you around little boy so just shut it and stop writting to me dumb a$$ hater...



You are behaving like a kid man..


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## TOPGUN

vishalgutsy said:


> ok topgun , tell me acoording to u vat should be the solution to this middle east problem..??



Both sides need to stop killing each other simple if i get in details we will be here all day both sides are wrong . The arabs need there own land and all this blockade bs needs to stopthe arabs need to stop these attacks towards the israeli's and vise versa plus look at what the israeli's did a few days ago in int'l waters it was uncalled for. Iam againt any crimes and killings towards any human being anywhere in the world its sad and sad over again we are human beings they need to learn to live together its not a one sided story at all they need to come back to the peace table both of them its the only way forward enough blood shed has drawn and only humans die .


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## TOPGUN

Swift said:


> You are behaving like a kid man..



Iam sure iam older then you plus iam not acting like a kid at all perhaps its you who is acting him self hence little boy.. second i have told you to stop writting to me what part didn't you seem to understand now get over it and stop writting back.


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## vishalgutsy

TOPGUN said:


> Both sides need to stop killing each other simple if i get in details we will be here all day both sides are wrong . The arabs need there own land and all this blockade bs needs to stopthe arabs need to stop these attacks towards the israeli's and vise versa plus look at what the israeli's did a few days ago in int'l waters it was uncalled for. Iam againt any crimes and killings towards any human being anywhere in the world its sad and sad over again we are human beings they need to learn to live together its not a one sided story at all they need to come back to the peace table both of them its the only way forward enough blood shed has drawn and only humans die .



I am glad that not all Muslims want to drive the Jews into the sea. 
But Ahmadinejad has wowed to nuke Israel out of the face of the earth.
He is also building atomic bomb and his allies, Hamas and Hezbollah, are just around the Israeli borders to whom he supplies missiles. You dont need to have all Muslims wanting your extinction. Only a few mad ones are enough. 
Not all the Germans were supporting Hitler, but nonetheless Hitler massacred six million Jews. For Israelis it is a matter of survival.
They have nowhere to go. Palestinians have enough land to build their country and live happily. But that is not what they want. They want revenge and are readly to kill themselves for that. Most Palestinians prefer being killed in a nuclear bomb if the Jews are also going to be killed than leave side by side with the Jews and share the land with them.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

Palestinians are not homeless. After sixty years they are not refugees. Israelis built thier country from scratch during these years, Palestinians could have done the same. But their leaders got the money from USA, filled their bank accounts and financed war with Israel instead. 
Now the question is, if not in their ancestral land, where the Israelis should build their country. Where do you think they should go? Would Antarctica satisfy you or rather youd prefer they are sent to Mars?

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## vishalgutsy

like i said earlier , Jews have historic right over Israel. There is a detailed history about them, and not just their own that traces them to that land for almost $3,500 years. Many ancient towns in Israel, like Jerusalem, Bethlehem, etc, still have Hebrew names. In fact the Quranic stories narrated by Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) about Moses and the Israelites, confirm that the Jews called that part of land home at least 2000 years before Islam was invented.
anyone not agreeing with this is not agreeing with what prophet muhammad(pbuh) had said


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## vishalgutsy

If the Palestinians stop their violence and hatred against Israel, they can live in Israel and have full citizenship. Palestinians in Israel are treated well. If the rest of them abandon violence the problem will be solved. But you don&#8217;t want peace. Poor Anwar Sadat was assassinated for making peace with Israel. Any Palestinian politician who porposes peace with Israel will be killed on the spot.


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## mr42O

vishalgutsy said:


> If the Palestinians stop their violence and hatred against Israel, they can live in Israel and have full citizenship. Palestinians in Israel are treated well. If the rest of them abandon violence the problem will be solved. But you dont want peace. Poor Anwar Sadat was assassinated for making peace with Israel. Any Palestinian politician who porposes peace with Israel will be killed on the spot.



LOL get ur facts right. 

black jews are called not pure jews in isreal.
jews from african countries are not welcomed in isreal
arabs in isreal, living in isreal dont have any rights as vote etc.


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## vishalgutsy

mr42O said:


> LOL get ur facts right.
> 
> black jews are called not pure jews in isreal.
> jews from african countries are not welcomed in isreal
> arabs in isreal, living in isreal dont have any rights as vote etc.



Today, more than half of the Jews residing in Israel are refugees from Yemen, Iraq, Iran and other Islamic countries. palestinaies /arabs treat the Jews as second class citizens, and even today the Jews in Europe fear for their lives. 

any jew in palestine will be killed at sight , and ure talking about voting rights..???

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## Indian_Idol

Israel is the land promised by the Lord to them... and Muslims occupied their land and built a dome on the top of the Church Of David. they have the right to defend their land and offend their enemy when their rights are at a stake... if they can be called as terrorists then why cant the Muslims occupied their land can be called as terrorists??? would someone leave their homeland for some has occupied it...

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## Ahmad

vishalgutsy said:


> Today, more than half of the Jews residing in Israel are refugees from Yemen, Iraq, Iran and other Islamic countries. palestinaies /arabs treat the Jews as second class citizens, and even
> 
> , and ure talking about voting rights..???





> today the Jews in Europe fear for their lives.



this is the biggest B*u*l*l*s*h*i*t i ever heard.



> any jew in palestine will be killed at sight



what else do you expect? if the israeli army kill palestinian kids and civilians, destroy their houses, can you expect anything better?


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## vishalgutsy

Ahmad said:


> this is the biggest B*u*l*l*s*h*i*t i ever heard.
> 
> 
> 
> what else do you expect? if the israeli army kill palestinian kids and civilians, destroy their houses, can you expect anything better?



and if those kids happen to be wearing suicide jackets , what do u expect israelies to do with them..??
I am also puzzled that you dont see anything wrong in the act suicide bombing and killing Israeli civilians but think the destruction of a house made of brick and mortar is a major tragedy. There seem to be something skewed in your judgement. 
yes i expect better from them.
There will be peace in Palestine the day Palestinians put down their arms and start negotiating on equal terms. This is not happening because they hate the Jews gutturally.

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## Ahmad

vishalgutsy said:


> and if those kids happen to be wearing suicide jackets , what do u expect israelies to do with them..??
> I am also puzzled that you don&#8217;t see anything wrong in the act suicide bombing and killing Israeli civilians but think the destruction of a house made of brick and mortar is a major tragedy. There seem to be something skewed in your judgement.
> yes i expect better from them.
> There will be peace in Palestine the day Palestinians put down their arms and start negotiating on equal terms. This is not happening because they hate the Jews gutturally.



i have never justified the suicide bombings anywhere, you can read my old posts to see how i have always condmned them. some of you guys have totally turned a blind eye of the suffering of palestinians, even today in europe and might as well in america people are calling israelis cruel, but some peoople here are becoming more zionist than the zionists.


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## Ahmad

Indian_Idol said:


> Israel is the land promised by the Lord to them... and Muslims occupied their land and built a dome on the top of the Church Of David. they have the right to defend their land and offend their enemy when their rights are at a stake... if they can be called as terrorists then why cant the Muslims occupied their land can be called as terrorists??? would someone leave their homeland for some has occupied it...



You act like the Bin Laden of Jewish world.


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## vishalgutsy

Ahmad said:


> i have never justified the suicide bombings anywhere, you can read my old posts to see how i have always condmned them. some of you guys have totally turned a blind eye of the suffering of palestinians, even today in europe and might as well in america people are calling israelis cruel, but some peoople here are becoming more zionist than the zionists.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> You act like the Bin Laden of Jewish world.




let me assure you that we are not oblivious of the plight of the Palestinians. However, unlike palestininas and arabs i dont think driving the Jews to the sea is the solution. Israelis have always been ready to negotiate, but the Palestinians want nothing short of destruction of Israel.

yes people are calling israelis cruel , becoz they are the victims of false propaganda.

What concerns me is why you are so worried about the Palestinians and not about other Muslims that are being butchered by fellow Muslims in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, etc?

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## Frankenstein

vishalgutsy said:


> palestine is actually a land of jews. palestinians have no right over that land.



, this is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard in this forum, *have you ever seen how a cancer spreads through out the body?*?, let me give you a little demonstration by a *famous example*







*this is how cancer spreads*


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## vishalgutsy

Frankenstein said:


> , this is the most dumbest thing I have ever heard in this forum, *have you ever seen how a cancer spreads through out the body?*?, let me give you a little demonstration by a *famous example*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *this is how cancer spreads*




hahaha... dont give me these funny pictures...

and read what i wrote in my previous comments.


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## Frankenstein

vishalgutsy said:


> hahaha... dont give me these funny pictures...
> 
> and read what i wrote in my previous comments.



 is that a funny picture??, we need to have a serious convo later

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## vishalgutsy

Frankenstein said:


> is that a funny picture??, we need to have a serious convo later



sure , i dont visit this forum frequently.
so u may go through all my posts and then reply to them.
ill reply to them when ill come next.


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## Ahmad

vishalgutsy said:


> let me assure you that we are not oblivious of the plight of the Palestinians. However, unlike palestininas and arabs i dont think driving the Jews to the sea is the solution. Israelis have always been ready to negotiate, but the Palestinians want nothing short of destruction of Israel.
> 
> yes people are calling israelis cruel , becoz they are the victims of false propaganda.
> 
> What concerns me is why you are so worried about the Palestinians and not about other Muslims that are being butchered by fellow Muslims in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Sudan, etc?



Palestinians under the leadership of Fatah has always recognized israel as a country, Hamas recognizes it as long as the border goes to the one in 1967. on the other hand, the far right Liberman's party never ever recognizes palestine as a country and has categorically said that they will never see a future palestinian country, the same thing is position of Lekud party, both of these parties are in power at the moment. Labour and Kadema recognizes palestine as a country in the future, but they have never stopped illegal settlmetn constructions which is making the process of 2 state solution incridibley difficult, do you know how much the palestinians are harrased and abused on daily basis by the extremest settlers? even tony blair recognized this in his trip to the west bank. and yes, i know about the jews who were expelled from the arab countries which is equally cruel, but you should know that it was israel too that expelled hundreds of thousands and took their homes, ever wondered where those palestinians in jordan, egypt and lebanon and other countries have come from? your claim of honest negotiations by israel is nothing but a made up senario which is not acceptable to any sane mind.


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## vandemataram

Al-zakir said:


> Hamas is party of freedom fighter. They have been fighting against terrorist killer for last 60 years. They have all the right to defend their motherland.
> 
> When I see Bharati support Zionist then Maoist action justify against you bloody Terrorist.



So ROC is a freedom loving nation, so is Nepal, so are the Uighurs and people of the TAR


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## vandemataram

Black Blood said:


> Give you an example:
> 
> There used to be a Ruthless hindu regime in a country almost 1200 years ago.
> 
> They Burnt women alive along with their dead husband , they treated poor like dogs who couldn't even hear the voice of the elite if so they would be Punished .
> 
> They used to bury their female kids alive and felt ashamed of having one , they fought amongst themselves and Killed people majority of those "untouchables".
> 
> The Evil regime went on for thousands of years oppressing the poor and discriminating against them.
> 
> Then they were taken over by another Nation who believed in equality , Justice and harmony for a thousand years.
> 
> But the Evil regime came back again somehow now they are Killing mass amount of people in Kashmir , they still are doing what they were doing before.
> 
> Burning places of worship , Demolishing the mosques , Taking away the resources of those who are weak.
> 
> They support another Evil regime of Israel whatsoever , should i say worship them.
> 
> 
> But the evil regimes are going to an end one day --by someone--



By god's grace this raja cannot be compared to Ikhtiyaruddin Muhammad Bakhtiyar Khalji..

The greatest example of castrated bigoted Islamic fundamentalist of all times...

Kameenapan koi isse sikhe....

He owes an answer to the Buddhits of India....


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

if we gave Plastine to israel. Then war gonna end? No and never then the main war just begin. To stop this war we dont give the land of Plastine to Jews. Remember israel dont support india too they just using you..


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## vishalgutsy

Black Blood said:


> Give you an example:
> 
> There used to be a Ruthless hindu regime in a country almost 1200 years ago.
> 
> They Burnt women alive along with their dead husband , they treated poor like dogs who couldn't even hear the voice of the elite if so they would be Punished .
> 
> They used to bury their female kids alive and felt ashamed of having one , they fought amongst themselves and Killed people majority of those "untouchables".
> 
> The Evil regime went on for thousands of years oppressing the poor and discriminating against them.
> 
> Then they were taken over by another Nation who believed in equality , Justice and harmony for a thousand years.
> 
> But the Evil regime came back again somehow now they are Killing mass amount of people in Kashmir , they still are doing what they were doing before.
> 
> Burning places of worship , Demolishing the mosques , Taking away the resources of those who are weak.
> 
> They support another Evil regime of Israel whatsoever , should i say worship them.
> 
> 
> But the evil regimes are going to an end one day --by someone--






every beleief has some good aspects and some bad aspects.caste system in india was a social evil , just like racism in west. and steps have been taken over the years to curb this evil with great success.
although it has nothing to do with the religion.
however Islamic judicial system (Shariaat or Hudud laws) is loaded with cruelty, barbaric, uncivilized and draconian punishment for even simple crime like stealing an apple to eat, 
listening songs or music, shaving beards or not putting hijab for women.
Quran emphatically orders Muslim ruler to chop hands and feet for simple stealing of some meager amounts of foods! 
This is the only reason we have seen so much draconian punishments in Islamic Afghanistan, Iran , Sudan , Nigeria and Saudi Arabia 
Muslims are killing Muslims. 
Because, cruelty and killings, beheadings, stoning death all are the hall mark of Islamic judicial system.
Please give us just one Islamic kingdom (from present or past) in which peace and tranquility was prevailing because of Islamic rule. 

Now, let us suppose everyone converts to Islam. Will this end the bloodshed?
Of course not! 
Despite the fact that hundreds of millions of people have been
killed by Muslims during these 1400 years, this number thwarts in comparison
to the number of Muslims that have been put to death by fellow Muslims of
other sects.
Muslims kill more Muslims than they kill non-Muslims. If ever the
world is converted to Islam, these bloodsheds over whose interpretation of the
Qur'an and Hadith is correct will only augment and mankind will be ushered
into an era of perpetual killing and mayhem. This means the end of civilization
and return to barbarity.
We can clearly see that Islamic countries are barbaric. However, the West still
exerts a powerful influence on Muslims and holds them from reverting to total
barbarity. 
Muslims want to impress the West and therefore they feign civility.
To Muslims, image is everything. Once the whole world becomes Islamic, this planet will
become the planet of apes. 
The extremists will be emboldened and the insanity
that now is reigning in Islamic countries will be magnified a hundred fold,
civilization will end and dark ages will begin. Imagine the entire world ruled by
invigorated Taliban! They were the only Muslims who did not care about the
opinion of the world. Even the wicked Iranian Mullahs and the Saudis are
concerned about their image. Since there is no possibility of dissent in Islam
and learning any knowledge contrary to the Qur&#8217;an is strictly prohibited, the
dark age imposed by Islam will never end. 
The Islamic mentality of might in right will disallow any thinking person to express his views and this planet will
be doomed.


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## sraja

rameez ahmed said:


> These verses are for those jews who will be the enemy of Muslims... Surely Israel is the Enemy of Islam....
> 
> So to maintain Peace, Israel should start to maintain peace in Palestine otherwise it will keep on facing the threats and attacks that its facing today....



With the hate-verses calling for Genocide of Jews embedded in Islamic literature, even if Israel wants to maintain peace, You will kill the Jews just to fulfill Islamic prophecy.

You see how senseless, arrogant you people are.

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## FreekiN

sraja said:


> With the hate-verses calling for Genocide of Jews embedded in Islamic literature, even if Israel wants to maintain peace, You will kill the Jews just to fulfill Islamic prophecy.
> 
> You see how senseless, arrogant you people are.



We fight to defend ourselves unlike those Israelis who attack Aid Ships. 

Of course this will lead to Islamic prophecy, you nut. You read one Surah and you're generalizing that we are "senseless and arrogant", but in the end, it's is you who is arrogant and senseless.

*And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. [Qur'an 29:46]*

As you can see, all Jews aren't the target. Only those who act like retards shooting everything in sight. 

*Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin Al-Ma'r&#251;f and forbid Al-Munkar ; and they hasten in (all) good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are Al-Muttaq&#251;n .(3:113-115 Quran)*

Read these Surahs and interpret the truth, not that bullshit genocidal crap the media loves to feed you. 

*Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Qur'an 2:62]*


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## Optimus

Lol why do you guys quote from Quran - Why cannot you quote something from Pure Logic and Reason - Keep your religion to yourself guys


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

buddy, tell Jew Hindus and christan that they too keep their religion with them,


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

And what hindus religion tech? Kill muslim in khasmir?


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## JonAsad

The way indians are playing with our senti's here by openly supporting israel 
I think now All of the Pakistani members here should support Naxalites\Maoists.

They call palestinian (freedom fighters) terrorists and supports israel
We should call Maoists freedom fighters and India a terrorist state

Forget abt peace Lets have tit for tat and hit where it hurts the most.

Indians would you be happy if we support Maoists?


----------



## rideto_live

Al-zakir said:


> *Twelve Reasons for the International Community to Bomb Israel*
> 
> Wednesday June 02 2010 23:03:29 PM BDT
> 
> 
> By Yamin Zakaria , UK
> 
> 
> "Maybe because we all grew used to seeing the Israelis kill Arabs, maybe the Israelis grew used to killing Arabs. Now they kill Turks" (Robert Fisk)
> 
> 1--Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction; Iran or any of the other peaceful countries in the region does not have any nuclear weapons, except Israel.
> 
> 2---Israel refuses to become a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and denies international inspection of its nuclear weapons; the recent declassified documents shows Israel offered nuclear weapons to the old apartheid regime of South Africa. One can see Israelâs natural affinity towards another racist regime; it is a clear threat to the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
> 
> 3---Iran has not attacked any of its neighbours, whereas Israel has constantly attacked its neighbour, and repeatedly in some cases, killing thousands of innocent civilians. It has now sent two of its submarine equipped with nuclear weapons to the coast of Iran. In the words of Norman Finkelstein, Israel is a lunatic state, armed with nuclear weapons, constitutes a real threat to the peace and security in the region.
> 
> 4---Israel has been violating UN resolutions almost from its illegitimate birth in 1948, and it continues to steal lands by building illegal settlement in the West Bank. Israel is a bastard child that fails to see the legitimate fathers of the land; they are the Palestinians.
> 
> 5---Israel operates like the criminal mafia organisation, resorts to cowardly assassination; recently it murdered the Hamas commander in Dubai, and earlier Sheikh Ahmed Yasin.
> 
> 6---The Gaza slaughter in 2009 has been certified as a war crime by the UN Judge, Richard Goldstein, where Israel broke the norms of warfare and used chemical weapons on the civilian population, attacked ambulances carrying the dead and injured. They killed 1500 Palestinians, bulk of them innocent women and children.
> 
> 7--Israels disregard for the UN goes beyond ignoring UN resolutions; it attacked the UN compound during the carnage in Gaza. It also attacked and killed Journalists.
> 
> 8---Israel has an official policy of ethnic cleansing; accordingly, it systematically targets Palestinian women and children. This is partly because the Palestinian population is growing at a much faster rate, and the Israelis cannot compete on demographic front, perhaps the Zionist seeds are weak; this is compounded by a religion that emphasises on racial exclusivity.
> 
> 9---Israel is not the democracy of the Middle East, but symbolises tyranny and oppression that has no place in the civilised world. It regularly demolishes Palestinian homes and continues to prevent the building of basic facilities; thus, deprive them of the most basic human rights. Far from being a democracy, Israel displays all the traits of a Fascist state that has no regard for anyone else.
> 
> 10---Israel is a racist state that practices hate and intolerance of non-Jews. The policy of the right to return means, any Jew can come and occupy the Arab land, whereas the Palestinians displaced in 1948 cannot return, which is a clear violation of international law.
> 
> 11---Israel is responsible for creating the largest concentration camp of Gaza by the illegal blockade placed over it for the last three years, which the Amnesty International has called a flagrant violation of international law. It defies belief that these were the people put in concentration camp by the Nazis only 60 years ago, yet they find it so easy to treat other human beings in a similar way.
> 
> 12---Now, Israel has shamefully attacked a peace convoy in international water, killing innocent peace activists carrying aid for the desperate people of Gaza. Subsequently, Israeli authority imprisoned the activists, which is akin to holding them as hostages.
> 
> Why was there a need to conduct the raid in the middle of the night using live ammunition, instead of rubber bullets? Those boats would have come to the ports, and the Israelis could have easily inspected the boats for weapons. In any case, the boats had already passed through several European ports and cleared by customs. Maybe Israel has become accustomed to attacking the weak and defenceless, but it is the shame in seeing that many people around the world coming to break the criminal siege of Gaza that prompted the shameless Israelis to react in a shameful way.
> 
> If this were Iran or any other Muslim nation, condemnation would have been swift; the US would have been preparing to send bombing raids, the politicians and the media would have made the usual howling noise about terrorism and militancy, demonising the entire civilisation of Islam. The initial reaction from the US shows great caution, rather than a single word of condemnation for the murderous acts of Israel.
> 
> So, where is the will of the international community now? The arrogant US always talks as the âinternational communityâ when it speaks to Iran. However, the real international community has spoken today in response to Israeli terrorism and piracy, as they did over the Gaza carnage. Will the UN Security Council reflect the voice of the real international community now? Unlikely, because the US will most likely use its veto power to protect the tiny pariah nation, and ignore the voice of the majority nations, in line with its democratic credential!
> 
> A military response of Israel needs to be met with a military response, and it would be within Turkeyâs right to bomb Tel-Aviv. At the very least, Turkey should demand compensation, UN sanctions, and the extradition of the Israeli soldiers responsible for the crimes committed in the international waters.
> 
> Peace cannot take place without justice; Israel is an obvious obstacle to peace. It is time for the real international community to demand the current international trend of bombing a nation, to bring about a regime change. Israel has committed war crimes, state terrorism, piracy, theft of land, murder of innocent civilians, assassination, ethnic cleansing. Why should it be any different for Israel? Bringing Israel to account would be the first step to bring about real justice, which would allow real peace to prevail in the region.
> 
> Yamin Zakaria
> E Mail : yamin@radicalviews.org
> London, UK
> Published 1/06/2010
> RadicalViews.org
> A Moderate View in a Radical World
> 
> http://www.bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidRecord=320714



What about the innocent Isrealies should they also be bombed ? or just becoz they are jew they deserve to Die...


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## turkaholic

There will not be a war between Turkey and Israel, but the Turkish people will NEVER EVER forget what Israel have done. An Indian kid was talking about us here and said that we were only 'barking'. What do you want us to do? Attack Israel? Just shut up already. Turkey is the only country that sent threat after threat to Israel, and we will stand up to these terrorists if need be. The Turkish nation was not handed over a piece of land, technology, money and resources when it was re-built after the WWI. We are where we are because of who we are. We are not going to be bullied by the Israeli dogs in any way, shape or form. At this very moment, the Turkish people feel so much hatred against Israel, Israelis should be dead scared. Underestimating the Turkish nation will be the biggest mistake Israel will ever make, and have made.

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## vishalgutsy

Al-zakir said:


> *Twelve Reasons for the International Community to Bomb Israel*
> 
> Wednesday June 02 2010 23:03:29 PM BDT
> 
> 
> By Yamin Zakaria , UK
> 
> 
> "Maybe because we all grew used to seeing the Israelis kill Arabs, maybe the Israelis grew used to killing Arabs. Now they kill Turks" (Robert Fisk)
> 
> 1--Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction; Iran or any of the other peaceful countries in the region does not have any nuclear weapons, except Israel.
> 
> 2---Israel refuses to become a signatory of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), and denies international inspection of its nuclear weapons; the recent declassified documents shows Israel offered nuclear weapons to the old apartheid regime of South Africa. One can see Israelâs natural affinity towards another racist regime; it is a clear threat to the proliferation of nuclear weapons.
> 
> 3---Iran has not attacked any of its neighbours, whereas Israel has constantly attacked its neighbour, and repeatedly in some cases, killing thousands of innocent civilians. It has now sent two of its submarine equipped with nuclear weapons to the coast of Iran. In the words of Norman Finkelstein, Israel is a lunatic state, armed with nuclear weapons, constitutes a real threat to the peace and security in the region.
> 
> 4---Israel has been violating UN resolutions almost from its illegitimate birth in 1948, and it continues to steal lands by building illegal settlement in the West Bank. Israel is a bastard child that fails to see the legitimate fathers of the land; they are the Palestinians.
> 
> 5---Israel operates like the criminal mafia organisation, resorts to cowardly assassination; recently it murdered the Hamas commander in Dubai, and earlier Sheikh Ahmed Yasin.
> 
> 6---The Gaza slaughter in 2009 has been certified as a war crime by the UN Judge, Richard Goldstein, where Israel broke the norms of warfare and used chemical weapons on the civilian population, attacked ambulances carrying the dead and injured. They killed 1500 Palestinians, bulk of them innocent women and children.
> 
> 7--Israels disregard for the UN goes beyond ignoring UN resolutions; it attacked the UN compound during the carnage in Gaza. It also attacked and killed Journalists.
> 
> 8---Israel has an official policy of ethnic cleansing; accordingly, it systematically targets Palestinian women and children. This is partly because the Palestinian population is growing at a much faster rate, and the Israelis cannot compete on demographic front, perhaps the Zionist seeds are weak; this is compounded by a religion that emphasises on racial exclusivity.
> 
> 9---Israel is not the democracy of the Middle East, but symbolises tyranny and oppression that has no place in the civilised world. It regularly demolishes Palestinian homes and continues to prevent the building of basic facilities; thus, deprive them of the most basic human rights. Far from being a democracy, Israel displays all the traits of a Fascist state that has no regard for anyone else.
> 
> 10---Israel is a racist state that practices hate and intolerance of non-Jews. The policy of the right to return means, any Jew can come and occupy the Arab land, whereas the Palestinians displaced in 1948 cannot return, which is a clear violation of international law.
> 
> 11---Israel is responsible for creating the largest concentration camp of Gaza by the illegal blockade placed over it for the last three years, which the Amnesty International has called a flagrant violation of international law. It defies belief that these were the people put in concentration camp by the Nazis only 60 years ago, yet they find it so easy to treat other human beings in a similar way.
> 
> 12---Now, Israel has shamefully attacked a peace convoy in international water, killing innocent peace activists carrying aid for the desperate people of Gaza. Subsequently, Israeli authority imprisoned the activists, which is akin to holding them as hostages.
> 
> Why was there a need to conduct the raid in the middle of the night using live ammunition, instead of rubber bullets? Those boats would have come to the ports, and the Israelis could have easily inspected the boats for weapons. In any case, the boats had already passed through several European ports and cleared by customs. Maybe Israel has become accustomed to attacking the weak and defenceless, but it is the shame in seeing that many people around the world coming to break the criminal siege of Gaza that prompted the shameless Israelis to react in a shameful way.
> 
> If this were Iran or any other Muslim nation, condemnation would have been swift; the US would have been preparing to send bombing raids, the politicians and the media would have made the usual howling noise about terrorism and militancy, demonising the entire civilisation of Islam. The initial reaction from the US shows great caution, rather than a single word of condemnation for the murderous acts of Israel.
> 
> So, where is the will of the international community now? The arrogant US always talks as the âinternational communityâ when it speaks to Iran. However, the real international community has spoken today in response to Israeli terrorism and piracy, as they did over the Gaza carnage. Will the UN Security Council reflect the voice of the real international community now? Unlikely, because the US will most likely use its veto power to protect the tiny pariah nation, and ignore the voice of the majority nations, in line with its democratic credential!
> 
> A military response of Israel needs to be met with a military response, and it would be within Turkeyâs right to bomb Tel-Aviv. At the very least, Turkey should demand compensation, UN sanctions, and the extradition of the Israeli soldiers responsible for the crimes committed in the international waters.
> 
> Peace cannot take place without justice; Israel is an obvious obstacle to peace. It is time for the real international community to demand the current international trend of bombing a nation, to bring about a regime change. Israel has committed war crimes, state terrorism, piracy, theft of land, murder of innocent civilians, assassination, ethnic cleansing. Why should it be any different for Israel? Bringing Israel to account would be the first step to bring about real justice, which would allow real peace to prevail in the region.
> 
> Yamin Zakaria
> E Mail : yamin@radicalviews.org
> London, UK
> Published 1/06/2010
> RadicalViews.org
> A Moderate View in a Radical World
> 
> http://www.bangladesh-web.com/view.php?hidRecord=320714




the author of this article is a lunatic hatemonger. 

we can check more of his debates here Yamin Zakaria | Faithfreedom.org


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## Barrett

Turkish Prime Minister along with his Navy going to Gaza.


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## Hasnain2009



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## Black Stone

Link please.


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## pak-yes

what what what?Any links?


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## sparklingway

Twitter is buzzing with this news but I can't seem to find a news outlet reporting this [yet].


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## Durrak

same ques???


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## Barrett

put on Aaj tv if you can.


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## s90

Any source?


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## Hasnain2009

*Turkey set to escalate Gaza fallout*
Aldous Duke,Sat 5 June 2010, 1:01pm1

A number of news websites have picked up on *Lebanese newspaper al-Mustaqbal&#8217;s claim that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan wants to travel to Gaza himself to break Israel&#8217;s blockade the Palestinian territory*.

Ynet news translates the story which states;

*&#8220;As part of the open conflict between Turkey and Israel following the massacre against the &#8216;freedom sail&#8217; to Gaza and the protest sparked in the world, Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan is considering going to Gaza himself in order to break the blockade imposed on the Strip.&#8221; *

Al-Mustaqbal also reports that Erdogan has informed the US Administration of his plan to send a Turkish naval escort with another flotilla of aid, but that the Americans have requested the Prime Minister delay the escalation.

It is not clear whether Erdogan would actually board the flotilla himself, but Al-Mustaqbal (Future) newspaper describes the source of the story as &#8220;knowledgeable&#8221;.

The prospect of the naval confrontation between Turkey and Israel is a dangerous escalation of the crisis, potentially resulting in open conflict between the two states, which could easily draw in Israel&#8217;s traditional enemies.

The move could be seen as an attempt by Turkey to force the hand of the UN and US to act on the Israeli blockade of Gaza.

Turkey set to escalate Gaza fallout Slugger O'Toole

*not a credible link*

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## reeyan

share us link of that above mentioned post. thanks


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## Hasnain2009

reeyan said:


> share us link of that above mentioned post. thanks



its already in above post!

Turkey set to escalate Gaza fallout Slugger O&#039;Toole


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## M8R

WTF - Is it true - This might result in war between Turkey and Israel.Turkey is not something Israel can mess with.Most likely PM will come with heavy Air Force/Navy Escort.Turkish Navy is far more strong and Turkish are not arabs!

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## Barrett

even geo is confirming it.

Turk Prime Minister has announced to leave for Gaza on Flotilla with aid for the people of Gaza, Turk Navy will escort him.

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## M8R

Oh and any attack on Turkish Armed Forces will invoke Article 5 of NATO which means NATO will have to defend Turkey (On Papers only we all know US may very well strip Turkey off NATO Membership)


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## Black Stone

He is actually considering it, I'll wait till it happens.


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## T-Faz

Get ready for war if this is true, if the arabs do not do anything we shall punish them too.

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## pak-yes

Turkish PM has announced?Links Please.


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## Mani2020

And one other climax is that Turkey is a member of NATO and was the only muslim state to have good relationship with Israel both have performed mutual war games and Turkey was also buying defence related equipments from Israel like drones etc

but if it happens it will be a nightmare for Israel as Turkey is far more stronger when compared with other muslim countries with respect to conventional power n if such conflict escalates thn Iran might get a chance to to jump into it n kick Israel's arse

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## M8R

It's coming on American Media too.Just saw it on Sky News.

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## Thomas

It would be such an un-wise move that I doubt it has any credence. Even in all the high emotions I would think Turkey would have better sense then to deliberately start a war. How would Turkey react if Israel sent warships into it's territorial waters. My guess is they would be fired upon. And they would have a right to do it.

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## T-Faz

Here cometh the Israeli supporters and apologists, its not about un-wise decisions but about humanity.

I would do the same if I was in his position.

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## Barrett

Thomas said:


> It would be such an un-wise move that I doubt it has any credence. Even in all the high emotions I would think Turkey would have better sense then to deliberately start a war. How would Turkey react if Israel sent warships into it's territorial waters. My guess is they would be fired upon. And they would have a right to do it.



Don't you get it.... that's what the Turks want...

Bring it on !


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## Black Stone

T-Faz said:


> Get ready for war if this is true, if the arabs do not do anything we shall punish them too.



How will you punish the Arabs?.


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## Peregrine

Hi
its about time that some one stood up against Israeli tyranny, Go Turkey Go

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## ramu

T-Faz said:


> Get ready for war if this is true, if the arabs do not do anything we shall punish them too.



 

Who do you think will punish the Arabs?


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## Mani2020

Thomas said:


> It would be such an un-wise move that I doubt it has any credence. Even in all the high emotions I would think Turkey would have better sense then to deliberately start a war. How would Turkey react if Israel sent warships into it's territorial waters. My guess is they would be fired upon. And they would have a right to do it.



Hey Mr thomas we expected this from u americans the puppets of Israel , let me tell u one thing turkey had good relationship with Israel n both had mutual war game exercises , so Turkish navy warships in israel territory was not a big deal n even though these were loaded with journalists , Aid n food stuff which has been allowed by UN itself , Attacking innocent people for the sake of personal refreshment is just pathetic . 

n about ur comments that this step will b foolishness on the part of turkey so let me tell you in any case turkey have more strong military and economy when compared to Israel n dun worry about Iran they will be waiting for this opportunity and how can u forget Pakistan , we will b more thn welcome

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## Schindler

Its other way around. Israel is not something that turkey can mess with. Israel already messed with turkey by blocking its aid. i doubt turkey pm would risk going israel because israel will be ready. No one should forget israel backed by america. If turkey decides to resist than america will step in and than turkey would not only runaway but also will b humilated by the war against israel and america. irish dare israel but guess what israel blocked irish aid too. If turkey pm decides to break blockade than i fear he might pay heavely. i support israel and its neighbour but i dont support turkey and so does india. Israel should not block aid to gaza but they should stop anything harmful like weapons by turkey to gaza. Israel should allow nonweapon aid to gaza. Gaza need food, medicine, water supply, clothing etc etc.


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## T-Faz

ramu said:


> Who do you think will punish the Arabs?





The breast-feeding Saudi Cleric will. It wont be you thats for sure.


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## Schindler

Am very upset that pakistan not doing anything. Atleast turkey doing something.


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## M8R

Schindler said:


> Its other way around. Israel is not something that turkey can mess with. Israel already messed with turkey by blocking its aid. i doubt turkey pm would risk going israel because israel will be ready. No one should forget israel backed by america. If turkey decides to resist than america will step in and than turkey would not only runaway but also will b humilated by the war against israel and america. irish dare israel but guess what israel blocked irish aid too. If turkey pm decides to break blockade than i fear he might pay heavely. i support israel and its neighbour but i dont support turkey and so does india. Israel should not block aid to gaza but they should stop anything harmful like weapons by turkey to gaza. Israel should allow nonweapon aid to gaza. Gaza need food, medicine, water supply, clothing etc etc.


Suck up some more Israeli *** dude.You sound more like Israeli then Indian.

---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:59 PM ----------




Schindler said:


> Am very upset that pakistan not doing anything. Atleast turkey doing something.


It is not Pakistan's issue.We're not in Middle east.

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## pak-yes

Schindler said:


> Am very upset that pakistan not doing anything. Atleast turkey doing something.



We are a poor country fighting for its own survival what can we do?


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## Peregrine

Hi
If Turkey can step up the the diplomatic activities in oil producing Arab states then it will deliver a strong message to the Americans as well

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## abiab

Schindler said:


> Am very upset that pakistan not doing anything. Atleast turkey doing something.



Since when did you start upsetting on Pakistan's not doing anything

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## Mani2020

in any case i dun thnk that such war will escalate but anyways just have a comparison b/w Turkey and Isarel militaries for the sake of information


*Navy*

*Turkey* 

Submarines: 14 

Frigates : 19 

Corvettes : 7 

Fast Attack Missile &
Torpedo Boats : 33 

Mine Warfare Ships: 25 

Helicopters & Naval Aircraft : 75

Mine Warfare Ships : 25

Main Landing Ships : 5

Landing Crafts : 42

Patrol Crafts : 11 

Survey Ships : 5

Tugs : 4

*Israel *

submarines : 3

Patrol crafts : 11

Missile boats : 10

Corvettes : 3

Support ships : 4

Commando boats : 6

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## QADRI

great news...i wish all Muslim countries must join together now as one nation...i know thats not possible but atleast Pakistan must also participate in this with some little donation..ab zadari tu kabhi nai jaey ga...i guess Talat Hussain must plan for this again...

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## Cityboy

abiab said:


> Since when did you start upsetting on Pakistan's not doing anything



as per ummah, Pakistan must support hamas with weapons and manpower. . And we giving aid to palestine ppl


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## QADRI

pak-yes said:


> We are a poor country fighting for its own survival what can we do?



well we are a country that now only the world's assumption....we can afford anything if and only if our politicians stop spending money on useless things and utilize resources to full extent but you know our politicians....THEY ARE JUST MF.


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## ramu

T-Faz said:


> The breast-feeding Saudi Cleric will. It wont be you thats for sure.




Right answer !


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## T-Faz

I am packing my weapons, hope my plastic knife and fork can do some damage to the enemy forces.

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## ramu

Mani2020 said:


> in any case i dun thnk that such war will escalate but anyways just have a comparison b/w Turkey and Isarel militaries for the sake of information
> 
> 
> *Navy*
> 
> *Turkey*
> 
> Submarines: 14
> 
> Frigates : 19
> 
> Corvettes : 7
> 
> Fast Attack Missile &
> Torpedo Boats : 33
> 
> Mine Warfare Ships: 25
> 
> Helicopters & Naval Aircraft : 75
> 
> Mine Warfare Ships : 25
> 
> Main Landing Ships : 5
> 
> Landing Crafts : 42
> 
> Patrol Crafts : 11
> 
> Survey Ships : 5
> 
> Tugs : 4
> 
> *Israel *
> 
> submarines : 3
> 
> Patrol crafts : 11
> 
> Missile boats : 10
> 
> Corvettes : 3
> 
> Support ships : 4
> 
> Commando boats : 6



This comparison is not the right way to look at it. Israel has anti ship missiles and it is these missiles against Turkish Naval assets instead of navy vs navy.


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## abiab

Maulik said:


> as per ummah, Pakistan must support hamas with weapons and manpower. . And we giving aid to palestine ppl


that question was for Schindler an israel supporter whose getting upset 



> i support israel and its neighbour but i dont support turkey and so does india.


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## Barrett

abiab said:


> that question was for Schindler an israel supporter whose getting upset
> 
> i support israel and its neighbour but i dont support turkey and so does india.​



Don't you get it from his screen name ? watch "Schindler's List"

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## Barrett

ramu said:


> This comparison is not the right way to look at it. Israel has anti ship missiles and it is these missiles against Turkish Naval assets instead of navy vs navy.



And what do the Turks have on their ships ?


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## Razavi

If the prime minister travelled to GAZA then there will be a great resistence from israel to Turkey.


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## Frankenstein

Now, lets see what happens, I thought Israel has given there word that they will attack the next boat, lets see they have balls to do that in such case

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## Hyde

He must go with his Navy foce accompanied and Air force high alert - otherwise who knows if Israelis tries to capture them also 

If they cannot spare humanitarians - anything is possible


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## M8R

ramu said:


> This comparison is not the right way to look at it. Israel has anti ship missiles and it is these missiles against Turkish Naval assets instead of navy vs navy.


 and Turkish Naval Boats have defensive counter measures.If any attack happens it will prompt Turkish Navy as well as Air Force (which has tankers and can reach Israel pretty quickly) to react.


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## zagahaga

he is my hero..... may Allah bless him but for some reason he might end up as jfk ...


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## Mani2020

*Airforce*


*Turkey*:

*Total Fighter aircraft : 410*

F-16 block 40/50/52 = 180

F-16 block 30 = 30

F4E 2020 terminator = 52

F-4 Phantom = 25

F-4E 2000 = 48

F-5 = 75

*Total Reconnaissance aircraft = 26*

RF-4E =26

*Total transport aircraft = 92*

*Total Air refueling tankers = 7*

KC-135= 7

*Total AEWACS = 4*

B-737-700 AEW&C MESA = 4

*Helicopters = 100*

Total UAV = 247

including MQ-1 Reaper

and MQ-1 Predator

*Future aircrafts on order*

120 F-35 on order plus option for 60 more

*Israel airforce*

*Total fighter aircrafts = 368*

F-15 = 58

Rest all are f-16's A/b , C/d ans F-16 i sufa

*Total transport aircraft = 64*

*Helicopters =181*

*Unknown number of UAV[/B

Signal intelligence, maritime patrol and AEW aircrafts = 26*

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## abiab

Barrett said:


> Don't you get it from his screen name ? watch "Schindler's List"



Oh.......... i wasn't aware of that drama film.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

According to the report, Erdogan told the American administration he was planning to ask his navy to escort another aid flotilla, but that American officials asked him to delay the plan in order to look into the matter. (Roee Nahmias)

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## gambit

turkaholic said:


> There will not be a war between Turkey and Israel, but the *Turkish people will NEVER EVER forget what Israel have done.* An Indian kid was talking about us here and said that we were only 'barking'. What do you want us to do? Attack Israel? Just shut up already. *Turkey is the only country that sent threat after threat to Israel*, and we will stand up to these terrorists if need be. The Turkish nation was not handed over a piece of land, technology, money and resources when it was re-built after the WWI. We are where we are because of who we are. *We are not going to be bullied by the Israeli dogs in any way, shape or form*. At this very moment, the *Turkish people feel so much hatred against Israel, Israelis should be dead scared*. Underestimating the Turkish nation will be the biggest mistake Israel will ever make, and have made.


Can you explain how is Israel a national security threat to Turkey in 1948 to warrant so much hatred? Please confine your explanation to national security threat only.


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## Aslan

abiab said:


> Since when did you start upsetting on Pakistan's not doing anything



Since he came to the thread with the intention of trolling and derailing the threads like many other famous ones here.

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## abiab

i came across this news 

*Turkish authorities put ban on Google services*
Turkey has banned access to some of the Google services including *Google Translate, Docs, Sites, and Earth*. Turkey&#8217;s telecommunication industry released an official note Saturday which says that some of the services from Google have been blocked due to &#8220;legal reasons.&#8221; 

Popular network Youtube.com has been suspended in Turkey since 2008 due to &#8220;offensive content to Turkey's founder Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.&#8221;

http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2010/06/05/turkey-google/ 

_has this ban any ties with Turkish PM's plan?_

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## Peregrine

ramu said:


> This comparison is not the right way to look at it. Israel has anti ship missiles and it is these missiles against Turkish Naval assets instead of navy vs navy.


Hi
If Israel has anti ship missiles then it does not mean that they are at advantage, Hammas has Anti ship missiles too remember Lebonan war, so far Israel has been fighting with weak states like Syria,Lebanon,Egypt & small groups like Hammas. Turkey is nothing like any of these states.

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## hillman32

I salute the Premier for his courage and care for Gaza People.

May Allah protect him and make him successful.

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## Aslan

The israelis have to be very careful in escalating a war, what the ME had always been lacking is someone who would take them forward. And that might just happen this time. And no matter what the situation, how strong is the israeli army. If the Turks end up getting involved militarily. It will become a big mess, you are looking at Syria, Lebanon, may be even Egypt getting involved. And also the other countries contribution. So lets see what happens.


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## M8R

If there is war between Israel and Turkey.Egypt Dictatorship will be toasted.

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## S-A-B-E-R->

guys remember we pakistanis r always present in war against israel remember our nuclear umbrella if israel dare to threaten with their nukes we ll do the same for turkey or any other country ...


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## Mani2020

*RAMU*

For your convenience let me remind you that Turkey is a member of NATO and it shares n can share all the NATO equipments n can buy anything from where ever it likes so she have all the goodies they thnk they need

N for you Turkey is one of the very few countries after USA to operate MQ1 predator and MQ-9 Reaper


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## Barrett

Report: Turkish PM wants to visit Gaza - Israel News, Ynetnews


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## ramu

Barrett said:


> And what do the Turks have on their ships ?



The have missiles too but the onus is on Israel to use its missiles first and if Turkey does a pre emptive strike, then the objective of the exercise is defeated. Turkey will be under pressure to defend itself and Israel to attack. In this asymmetric setup, the advantage clearly lies with Israel as it can choose the time and place of attack.


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## Barrett

ramu said:


> The have missiles too but the onus is on Israel to use its missiles first and if Turkey does a pre emptive strike, then the objective of the exercise is defeated. Turkey will be under pressure to defend itself and Israel to attack. In this asymmetric setup, the advantage clearly lies with Israel as it can choose the time and place of attack.



Well Turkish Navy is not going to Gaza with the intention of attacking anyone, they are not a trigger happy state like Israel but at the same time sending your Navy along means business if intercepted the Israelis will be at the receiving end.

:TurkeyFlag


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## Adios Amigo

Sense should prevail, and no rash and emotional decisions should be made which can lead to potential catastrophe. I know, right now there is a lot of anger among the Muslim world, specially Turkey. But blockade of Gaza or Philistine is not only the problem and responsibility of turkey but the entire world community.

Turkey can lead world in breaking that barbaric blockade, but in doing so it should not make it Turkey Vs Israel, which can prove counter productive but rather try to make it World Community Vs Israel, which not only would be far more effective but also would earn it the required legitimacy. For that reason turkey can raise the issue on different Fora i.e call the OIC emergency meeting and force the Muslims nations to extract some juice on diplomatic front, call in an International Conference Regarding The Blockade of Gaza in Turkey and gather like-minded nations around the world to carve out a practical solutions to put an end to this blockade. 

It would be far better and effective if leaders from around the world join the Turkish PM on such Flotilla heading for Gaza rather then Turkey going alone and the rest of the world watching the show. Practically it would be impossible for Israel to block it when leaders or even their envoys around the world are on board. 

The issue is hot, and has come to the notice of the world, all that is needed is to be handled it carefully and intelligently.



Regards!!

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## vishalgutsy

may god help israel against the evil forces.


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## Parashuram1

This is impractical from a leader's perspective. Mr. Erdogan will only be risking his own neck by taking a trip to the embattled zone. Navy escort is understandable but why would a national leader go there and do something like this? This is not the era of warrior kings and sultans who would lead an Army and Mr. Erdogan certainly seems to have put on age since his term of service in military.

This is sheer over-reaction and giving a political edge to a military scenario.


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## abiab

vishalgutsy said:


> may god help israel against the evil forces.



Israel in itself is evil


----------



## vishalgutsy

abiab said:


> Israel in itself is evil



no its not.


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## rameez ahmed

[/COLOR]


abiab said:


> Israel in itself is evil



very well said...

---------- Post added at 07:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:14 PM ----------




vishalgutsy said:


> no its not.



YES IT IS......


----------



## P.kid

vishalgutsy said:


> may god help israel against the evil forces.



evil? do you even know what the word evil means. Either your blind and cant see what israel has done or you just choose to ignore it and pretend it didn't happen.


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## rameez ahmed

I think Israel will not stop them if the Prime minister is in the navy that is going to Gaza .... 

I Pray something decisive to happen here.. Either Israel should remove the blockade now or if it blocks the navy then Israelis should be punished for this.... 

But I think that Israel will not retaliate and not consider it as war or an attack because it is already facing some loss from Turkey because of ties that were finished by Turkey in the past few days.. Israel will definitely not want to start war with a powerful Muslim army of that region at this point and make another Muslim country its enemy in that region .... ....

But If this starts war than Israel will definitely retaliate heavily with its full capacity because Turkey is not a weak country when defense is concerned.... This may start a big war in that region.....

I pray that whatever happens, Israel should get a big lesson now from the Muslims .. And I pray that now Muslims should get united if something bad happens....


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## Thomas

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> guys remember we pakistanis r always present in war against israel remember our nuclear umbrella if israel dare to threaten with their nukes we ll do the same for turkey or any other country ...



Can you please link this change in Pakistani nuclear policy?


----------



## jnd3x0

oh its great ...now iserail(wot ever) crying and looking towards its father (USA) and pointing turkey and begging dad that guy is coming to hit me! ... and father will do some dirty work let see....

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## IBRIS

*Israel Troops Seize Rachel Corrie Aid Ship*

Click on top of video to watch the video another link here: ( * ********.com/view?i=f4b_1275739973 *
*Video:* ********.com - Redefining the Media


> The Israeli military says its troops have boarded and seized an aid ship heading for Gaza, but there was no violent confrontation.
> 
> The action comes after Israel warned that its forces would board the Gaza-bound aid ship -- the "Rachel Corrie" carrying some 19 people -- if it did not go to a port in southern Israel.
> 
> UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay responded to the news by calling the Gaza blockade "illegal" and saying it "must be lifted."
> 
> Israel has faced a storm of criticism since its deadly May 31 raid on a humanitarian-aid flotilla similarly bound for Gaza.
> 
> 
> Israeli Defense Forces spokeswoman Avital Leibovich told CNN the action was a "compliance boarding" with the consent of those aboard, and that it took place in international waters.
> 
> Leibovich added that "there was no resistance or violence on the boat."
> 
> Organizers of the private aid ship previously said they would not resist in any encounter with Israeli forces.
> 
> Satellite communication with the "Rachel Corrie" was said to be blocked, presumably by Israeli authorities. Nobel peace prize winner Mairead Maguire was aboard the ship.
> 
> Israel had ordered the ship, which was some 50 kilometers off the Gaza coast, to divert to the port of Ashdod. Organizers of the private aid ship had previously said they will not resist in any encounter with Israeli forces.
> 
> CNN reported that the cargo would be off-loaded and its cargo screened and checked against a list of items banned under the Israeli embargo.
> 
> 
> Israel's Gaza blockade "is illegal and must be lifted," echoing an earlier appeal from UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon for an immediate end to the Israeli cordoning.
> 
> "International humanitarian law prohibits starvation of civilians as a method of warfare and...it is also prohibited to impose collective punishment on civilians," Pillay said.
> 
> Staunch Israeli ally the United States has suggested the blockade of long-suffering Gaza cannot continue in its present form.
> 
> "We are working urgently with Israel, the Palestinian Authority, and other international partners to develop new procedures for delivering more goods and assistance to Gaza," a spokesman for the White House National Security Council said in a statement, according to Reuters. "The current arrangements are unsustainable and must be changed. For now, we call on all parties to join us in encouraging responsible decisions by all sides to avoid any unnecessary confrontations."
> 
> Turkey, whose citizens bore the brunt of the deaths reported in the May 31 boarding, has warned that Tel Aviv risks losing an important regional partner and its standing in the international community.
> 
> Deputy Turkish Prime Minister Bulent Arinc told parliament this week that "new cooperation will not start and relations with Israel will be reduced" in the wake of the flotilla deaths.


----------



## shiningindia

i think turkish primeminister is fearing with israel.


----------



## M8R

Thomas said:


> Can you please link this change in Pakistani nuclear policy?


That policy is bogus.Pakistan Nuclear Policy is that if Pakistan's southern command northern command are cut off then it will launch nuclear weapons at enemy army's who is heading these operations and will take out the army within Pakistan's territory using nukes.Second Policy is if Pakistan Armed Forces are totally destroyed and paralyzed then the enemy will be nuked.Main Targets would be Enemy's Millitary and Economic Hubs.


----------



## Tiger Prowling

*GUY'S PUT ON BOOT'S, ITS TIME TO ROCK N ROLL ( great news if true ), HAIL TURKEY. :sniper*:


----------



## Tiger Prowling

pak-yes said:


> We are a poor country fighting for its own survival what can we do?


----------



## turkaholic

gambit said:


> Can you explain how is Israel a national security threat to Turkey in 1948 to warrant so much hatred? Please confine your explanation to national security threat only.



Your question has no relevance to what I have posted. 1948? National Security threat? Whaaaaat? I was merely talking about the recent events (flotilla attack, blockade of Gaza etc...) that have led to so much hatred against Israel. 

You are an American. I am a Turkish American myself, but for once, could you or any other American out there learn a little more about other nations rather than focusing on what to pick from a McDonald's or Burger King menu before actually backing a country that has done so many bad, inhumane things in its recent history? You back them up UNCONDITIONALLY without giving it any chance that they (Israel) MAY BE wrong. 'Oh if the muslims are involved, then they must be wrong' statement has become a cliche. Double Standards, ignorance and arrogance at its best. 

It is not going to work this time around.

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## Tiger Prowling

T-Faz said:


> I am packing my weapons, hope my plastic knife and fork can do some damage to the enemy forces.



Stay where ever u r, we dont have accomodation for ladies.


----------



## Tiger Prowling

ramu said:


> This comparison is not the right way to look at it. Israel has anti ship missiles and it is these missiles against Turkish Naval assets instead of navy vs navy.



*DO U THINK TURKEY WILL CARRY SLINGSHOT'S WITH IT.*


----------



## Tiger Prowling

vishalgutsy said:


> may god help israel against the evil forces.



PLS POST ME UR HOME ADDRESS, I MIGHT SEND U A GIFT.


----------



## Ahmad

vishalgutsy said:


> may god help israel against the evil forces.



israelis are eveil themselves. as matter of fact all the other evils are scared of this super evil(israel)


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## Ahmad

Military confrontation between Turkey and israel is simply not happenig and wont happen. there wont be any winner and it will just trigger a global scale anarchy if it ever happens. but israel's strained relationship with turkey will be a really setback for israel.


----------



## Indiarox

vishalgutsy said:


> may god help israel against the evil forces.


evil foes 
have you lost it
Israel is as evil if not more when compared to its neighbors
please don't get religion in to this there are enough religious lunatics we don't need another.

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## Nav

Mani2020 said:


> *Airforce*
> 
> 
> *Turkey*:
> 
> *Total Fighter aircraft : 410*
> 
> F-16 block 40/50/52 = 180
> 
> F-16 block 30 = 30
> 
> F4E 2020 terminator = 52
> 
> F-4 Phantom = 25
> 
> F-4E 2000 = 48
> 
> F-5 = 75
> 
> *Total Reconnaissance aircraft = 26*
> 
> RF-4E =26
> 
> *Total transport aircraft = 92*
> 
> *Total Air refueling tankers = 7*
> 
> KC-135= 7
> 
> *Total AEWACS = 4*
> 
> B-737-700 AEW&C MESA = 4
> 
> *Helicopters = 100*
> 
> Total UAV = 247
> 
> including MQ-1 Reaper
> 
> and MQ-1 Predator
> 
> *Future aircrafts on order*
> 
> 120 F-35 on order plus option for 60 more
> 
> *Israel airforce*
> 
> *Total fighter aircrafts = 368*
> 
> F-15 = 58
> 
> Rest all are f-16's A/b , C/d ans F-16 i sufa
> 
> *Total transport aircraft = 64*
> 
> *Helicopters =181*
> 
> *Unknown number of UAV[/B
> 
> Signal intelligence, maritime patrol and AEW aircrafts = 26*


*

can u plz share history of TAF Combat experience And IAF combat history . And which air force have superiour pilots.*


----------



## gambit

turkaholic said:


> Your question has no relevance to what I have posted. 1948? National Security threat? Whaaaaat? I was merely talking about the recent events (flotilla attack, blockade of Gaza etc...) that have led to so much hatred against Israel.


Thnx. I can conclude that Israel is not a national security threat to Turkey.



turkaholic said:


> You are an American. I am a Turkish American myself, but for once, could you or any other American out there learn a little more about other nations rather than focusing on what to pick from a McDonald's or Burger King menu before actually backing a country that has done so many bad, inhumane things in its recent history?


You should not jump to conclusion about me. Am probably old enough to be your father. Old enough to have been to East Berlin as an adult when it existed. Have been to post Saddam Kuwait as well, like while the oil wells were burning. I have trained members of the Turkish and Saudi air forces.



turkaholic said:


> You back them up UNCONDITIONALLY without giving it any chance that they (Israel) MAY BE wrong. 'Oh if the muslims are involved, then they must be wrong' statement has become a cliche. Double Standards, ignorance and arrogance at its best.


Nonsense. No one support anyone unconditionally. We all support someone based upon certain criteria or characters that overrode any flaws he may have. That mental calculus indicate conditional support.


----------



## ISRO

Mani2020 said:


> in any case i dun thnk that such war will escalate but anyways just have a comparison b/w Turkey and Isarel militaries for the sake of information
> 
> 
> *Navy*
> 
> *Turkey*
> 
> Submarines: 14
> 
> Frigates : 19
> 
> Corvettes : 7
> 
> Fast Attack Missile &
> Torpedo Boats : 33
> 
> Mine Warfare Ships: 25
> 
> Helicopters & Naval Aircraft : 75
> 
> Mine Warfare Ships : 25
> 
> Main Landing Ships : 5
> 
> Landing Crafts : 42
> 
> Patrol Crafts : 11
> 
> Survey Ships : 5
> 
> Tugs : 4
> 
> *Israel *
> 
> submarines : 3
> 
> Patrol crafts : 11
> 
> Missile boats : 10
> 
> Corvettes : 3
> 
> Support ships : 4
> 
> Commando boats : 6



is their only Navy??..... can u please put Army, Airforce and Most impotently All type of SAMs in comparison


----------



## Ahmad

Optimus said:


> Lol why do you guys quote from Quran - Why cannot you quote something from Pure Logic and Reason - Keep your religion to yourself guys



and you need to tell the same thing to the zionist who believe got has given them that land. remeber promised land?


----------



## Indiarox

Tiger Prowling said:


> PLS POST ME UR HOME ADDRESS, I MIGHT SEND U A GIFT.


mind you mouth no personal threats


----------



## DesiGuy

jonasad said:


> The way indians are playing with our senti's here by openly supporting israel
> I think now All of the Pakistani members here should support Naxalites\Maoists.
> 
> They call palestinian (freedom fighters) terrorists and supports israel
> We should call Maoists freedom fighters and India a terrorist state
> 
> *Forget abt peace Lets have tit for tat and hit where it hurts the most.
> *
> Indians would you be happy if we support Maoists?




that's what you have been doing, "tit for tat". 


not surprised AT ALL! 
nothing new!


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## Indiarox

What the Turkish P.M is going is different to say the least.
If he breaks the blockade his actions will be called heroic,if he fails his actions will be branded fool hardy.
For Palestine's sake i hope the blockade is broken.


----------



## S-A-B-E-R->

Thomas said:


> Can you please link this change in Pakistani nuclear policy?



buddy wt change we r always going to attack israel if their nukes r launched remember both countries r a threat to each other on nuclear front Pakistan as only nuke armed Muslim country officially and also remember we helped Arabs against israel in 6 day war also israel tried to bomb our nuclear facilities .....read some history ull get some link..


----------



## Marxist

****deleted****


----------



## Tiger Prowling

Indiarox said:


> mind you mouth no personal threats



Send me ur address too.


----------



## TOPGUN

Schindler said:


> Am very upset that pakistan not doing anything. Atleast turkey doing something.



Its not Pakistan's problem best we stay out of it we have of or own issues ... yes Turkey is doing something cause it was there ship that got attacked


----------



## Indiarox

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> buddy wt change we r always going to attack israel if their nukes r launched remember both countries r a threat to each other on nuclear front Pakistan as only nuke armed Muslim country officially and also remember we helped Arabs against israel in 6 day war also israel tried to bomb our nuclear facilities .....read some history ull get some link..


If Pakistan decides to nuke Israel they will do more damage to the Palestine and its people in one minute than Israel has done in the past 60 years so careful with those nukes.

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## Aslan

vishalgutsy said:


> may god help israel against the evil forces.

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## Al-zakir

vishalgutsy said:


> the author of this article is a lunatic hatemonger.
> 
> we can check more of his debates here Yamin Zakaria | Faithfreedom.org



Don't worry about the author. Do you disagree with the substance of the article? As you Bharati will be blind because it's about Zionist terrorist.


----------



## xenia

best of luck erdogan....

i read this n wanted to share..

WONDER how many of you remember the hijacking of the Italian cruise ship the Achille Lauro way back in October 1985? 
Four members of the Palestine Liberation Front took control of the liner off Egypt as it was sailing from Alexandria to Port Said. 

It was a bungled operation in which the hijackers killed disabled Jewish-American passenger Leon Klinghoffer and then threw his body overboard. 

The incident created headlines around the world and polarised people over the Palestinian cause. 

It also prompted the lawmakers to create new legislation making it an international crime for anyone to take a ship by force. 

And this is the reason for the brief history lesson * under article 3 of the Rome Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation of 1988. 

It is an international crime for anyone to seize or exercise control over a ship by force, and also a crime to injure or kill any person in the process. 

The treaty necessarily adopts a strict approach. One cannot attack a ship and then claim self-defence if the people on board resist the unlawful use of violence. 

In other words, according to international law, the actions of the Israeli military were beyond the law and those involved should be treated no differently than, say, the Somali pirates who are also in the habit of boarding ships by force. *
Any rights to self defence in such dramatic circumstances rests purely with the passengers and crew on board. Under international maritime law you are legally en titled to resist unlawful capture, abduction and detention. 

What those on board the Freedom Flotilla did was perfectly legal. I believe they acted with great courage in the face of heavily armed IDF commandos. 

Now I want you to ask yourself this question  if a group of Somali pirates had forced their way onto half a dozen humanitarian aid ships from the West, slaughtering around nine or 10 people and injuring scores more what do you think the international reaction would have been? 

Let me tell you. A Nato task force would by now be steaming towards the Horn of Africa accompanied by a couple of drones and various members of the press to record the occasion. 

So why is Israel allowed to get away with murder? In a pre-meditated act the Zionist state showed once again its total disregard for human life  and international law. 

YVONNE RIDLEY 
President, International Muslim Womens Union Via email
Dawn ePaper

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## Nav

As the only muslim country pakistan should take action against israel and cowrd jews..but alas over leadership is crape..we need people like racep tayyab oredgan or like adolf hitler, Mr.zardari u need to learn a lesson


----------



## Shaheen 2

this is fake, no credible news source is stating this.


----------



## Shaheen 2

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37504817/ns/world_news-mideastn_africa


----------



## Shaheen 2

*Peace activist U.S. citizen Rachel Corrie in Israel*







*Her info:*
Rachel Corrie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*The aftermath*


----------



## gaurish

Al-zakir said:


> Don't worry about the author. Do you disagree with the substance of the article? As you Bharati will be blind because it's about Zionist terrorist.



I will ask you one thing 

is it practical what you are saying? the substance in the article is non sense... you will not know. i don know how many terrorist attack your country has suffered through cross border

As long as u have India as neighbour on border you are rest assured there wont be cross border terrorism... Israel case is different... israel has suffered terrorism from its neighbours

Secondly please take any country s name with respect or if you don have the courtesy don take names... i think you would mind if i call u bangy...


----------



## Meengla

Thomas said:


> It would be such an un-wise move that I doubt it has any credence. Even in all the high emotions I would think Turkey would have better sense then to deliberately start a war. How would Turkey react if Israel sent warships into it's* territorial waters*. My guess is they would be fired upon. And they would have a right to do it.



Unfortunately I will have to agree with Thomas on this one; however, those are NOT Israel's territorial waters. Remember: Israel supposedly 'left' Gaza but only to be 'bombarded' by Kassams, right?

It does look to me that there is some kind of back-channel moves to cool down tempers. Gazans should get relief and I can understand smuggling of arms to be checked. But that can be done with some international supervision of ships entering Gaza.
Will Israel allow even that? May be. Israelis know that despite getting the upper hand in the media war initially--they were the only one who controlled the videos of the flotilla raid--and despite the Megaphone brigade Israelis have taken a big hit. So it is quite possible some kind of face-saving is being done by Israel. The 'Rachel Corrie' ship climb-down is the clear manifestation of, at least to me, that there are back-channel progress.

But if Israel continues to act in its gung-ho way then they will only have to blame themselves. Next few days will be crucial.


----------



## FireFighter

Why don't we condemn Mubarak for holding Gaza blockade from Egyptian side? 

Nothing good is expected from Israel as its enemy of humanity let alone Islam. 

But we should hold Egypt accountable first and firemost before pursuing the Israelis. 

Much of the burden could be lifted if Egypt opens its border to Gaza.

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## Meengla

FireFighter said:


> Why don't we condemn Mubarak for holding Gaza blockade from Egyptian side?
> 
> Nothing good is expected from Israel as its enemy of humanity let alone Islam.
> 
> But we should hold Egypt accountable first and firemost before pursuing the Israelis.
> 
> Much of the burden could be lifted if Egypt opens its border to Gaza.



Yes, that was puzzling to me as to why Egypt is behaving that way. I read several accounts of that and I used to believe that Egypt was afraid that its own 'Muslim Brotherhood' movement will get a boost from Hamas. That may be possible but then I say an article by Juan Cole recently (juancole.com) which enlisted several reasons for Egypt's betrayal; one of the most compelling was that Egypt, not only dependent (addicted, actually) on American aid* but also fears that a free-flow of goods through the Rafah crossing will cause an Israeli attack on the crossing itself. Egypt, being militarily weak, does not want to look weak*.

But if Egypt had leaders with people's backing like Turks and Iranians have then I think Egypt would have been bolder. But that is not so.

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## Frankenstein

vishalgutsy said:


> sure , i dont visit this forum frequently.
> so u may go through all my posts and then reply to them.
> ill reply to them when ill come next.



so how can it be a funny picture, you can find whole lot of Info how Israel expanded its territories my mass murdering innocent Palestine, just need to open your eyes and your mind


----------



## Mani2020

ISRO said:


> is their only Navy??..... can u please put Army, Airforce and Most impotently All type of SAMs in comparison



Sir if u go through the thread carefully i have also posted the comparison of Air forces of both countries

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## Mani2020

Navkhan said:


> can u plz share history of TAF Combat experience And IAF combat history . And which air force have superiour pilots.



Well i dun thnk turkey have to worry about their pilot skills they can call upon PAF pilots anytime n without any hesitancy they would agree to go n fight as you know we have a history of sending our pilots in the past to help muslim countries in case of war and every one knows that

PAF is the only airforce in the world who have shoot down israeli aircrafts without loosing any of their's


----------



## M8R

Dude stop boasting..it's embarrassing.Turkish Air Force Pilots have far more hours on F-16's and they are experienced enough to handle Israelis.They don't need Pakistanis like Arabs.

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## Desert Fox

zagahaga said:


> he is my hero..... may Allah bless him but for some reason he might end up as jfk ...



agreed that he is indeed a true hero, may Allah bless him with a long and blessed life, Ameen!

but hopefully he doesn't end up like JFK (RIP JFK).


----------



## Mani2020

TOPGUN said:


> Its not Pakistan's problem best we stay out of it we have of or own issues ... yes Turkey is doing something cause it was there ship that got attacked



Man thats the poor perception that resulted our downfall we have stop thinking like an UMAH, people like you n me after reading to books of start thinking differently but the ground reality is we are one, no matter where ever in world a muslim is in problem its our duty to help him out n you are saying Palestinian issue is not our problem and these were turkish ships blah blah suppose you are a citizen of Palestine thn will you not call all muslim countries to help you out n if they think like you n u got no response from them how the hell will it feel

Western countries have made unity , if you attack on one country the others will kick your arse look at NATO , EU there are so many examples then why cant we make union when we are of same UMAH, Pathetic thinking

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## Desert Fox

Shaheen 2 said:


> *Peace activist U.S. citizen Rachel Corrie in Israel*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Her info:*
> Rachel Corrie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> *The aftermath*



Allah bless Turkey, very brave people, and Rest In Peace Rachel Corrie!


----------



## Mani2020

&#9770;&#9770;&#9770;&#9770;;910355 said:


> Dude stop boasting..it's embarrassing.Turkish Air Force Pilots have far more hours on F-16's and they are experienced enough to handle Israelis.They don't need Pakistanis like Arabs.



So Mr. analyst let me tell you a thing having flying hours and having a real war experience is a hell of a difference dont compare them both and we PAF have a number of war experiences , um not saying that turkish air force is not good but um saying the airforce with more war experience can have an edge our her enemy

If you are not done with that let me tell you an intresting fact

When israel threatsto iran were increasing and Saudi Arabia allowed israel to use her airspace to attack Iran at that time israel also asked Turkey to allow her to use its airspace but turkey refused and in those days turkish airforce was on high alert and their Prime minister or defence minister ( i dont remember exactly ) asked PAF pilots to give theri services in case of mishap 

i dont have any source for that ryt now but if you have any freind or relative in airforce or in any defence related field you can go and ask him

Denying the false is good but at the same time you have to admit the goods that you have, neither b optimistic nor b pasimistic stay in between


----------



## Awesome

What a marvelous country Turkey is! I wish they extend the offer for people around the globe to join in.

I want to be a part of this trip to Gaza. Freedom cannot be suppressed in the way Israel has done so.

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## Awesome

Zardari should go too, his citizens were taken hostage as well!

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## vishalgutsy

Frankenstein said:


> so how can it be a funny picture, you can find whole lot of Info how Israel expanded its territories my mass murdering innocent Palestine, just need to open your eyes and your mind



israel has not massmurdered any palestinian. its jews who were massmurdered allover the arabia throughout the history.

plz tell me who were the actual inhibitants of arabia before islam came..??
khaibar , bani quraiza , bani juan etc etc etc... they all were jewish towns , who were massmurdered .

n ure crying about palestine..???

by the way who are these palestinians at the first place..??
who are the Palestinians? Palestinians are partly Egyptians and partly Jordanians. They are not people of the land. Most of them are recent migrants. Palestine is a region. There has never been a country called Palestine for you to say Israelis have stolen our lands. And the Palestinians have enough land to build their country and live happily. 
If the Palestinians cannot tolerate Jews, they can go back to where they came from. They actually did that but once in Jordan they plotted to overthrow the government of King Hussein until he buchered them by thousands and kicked them out of his country. You people cant live in peace with anyone, not even with yourselves. You are a warrior people, or to put it bluntly, savages.

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## Mani2020

Asim Aquil said:


> Zardari should go too, his citizens were taken hostage as well!



lol he will only go if israel will promiss him to provide dollars without dollars he dont do anythng, that person dont have guts n uncle sam is backing him up dun you think any worker can stand up against his BOSS's friend?

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## Areesh

Ah I am in love with this turkish govt. First their sincere support to Pakistan in different issues including defence and now this bold step by the Turkish PM. The turkish govt is really great.

Great work Turkish brothers.

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## vishalgutsy

*god bless israel , may god help them beat the evil forces in this bad time. *


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## xenia

n erdogan is one bold man muslim countries have..last year he snubbed netanyahu right in his face n condemned israels war crimes..Bravo!!


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## Awesome

Pakistan's government must also be a part of this expedition!!

If it goes through, this might be the tipping point that breaks the dominance of Israel from committing any further atrocities and human rights violations like preventing food and clothing to reach Gaza.


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## Thomas

&#9770;&#9770;&#9770;&#9770;;909563 said:


> Oh and any attack on Turkish Armed Forces will invoke Article 5 of NATO which means NATO will have to defend Turkey (On Papers only we all know US may very well strip Turkey off NATO Membership)



That is not true if it is Turkey who is instigating the conflict. and invading another countries territorial waters to run a blockade is an act of war

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## xenia

Thomas said:


> That is not true if it is Turkey who is instigating the conflict.




wake up dude!!


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## Areesh

vishalgutsy said:


> *god bless israel , may god help them beat the evil forces in this bad time. *



Yeah evil forces like these.


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## pak-yes

Thomas said:


> That is not true if it is Turkey who is instigating the conflict. and invading another countries territorial waters to run a blockade is an act of war



Thomas last time i checked your Israeli masters attacked an unarmed vessel in International waters.

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## Awesome

Thomas said:


> That is not true if it is Turkey who is instigating the conflict. and invading another countries territorial waters to run a blockade is an act of war



They are going to Gaza, not Israel. There is no invasion except breaking a blockade.

And by definition, you and I both know, a blockade is an act of war. So it is Israel instigating "conflict".

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## AgNoStiC MuSliM

vishalgutsy said:


> *god bless israel , may god help them beat the evil forces in this bad time. *



I wasn't aware that any country opposing Israeli policies was occupying millions of people and keeping them imprisoned in ghettos (increasingly smaller in size as Israel takes more and more of their productive land to build settlements for Israelis), starving them through a blockade and periodically launching military raids into those contained and blockaded ghettos.

Sounds like 'District 9' (the movie), except the people in the camps are ordinary humans, not aliens. Closer to reality, sounds like the restricted living spaces set up for Black South Africans by the minority Whites under apartheid.

Oh wait, Israel is doing all of the above, so are you praying that Israel defeat the 'evil forces' within it?

Apparently the excuse by the Israeli leadership, for atrocities committed by Israel, will be that 'the evil voices in my head made me do it!'.


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## TaimiKhan

Asim Aquil said:


> Zardari should go too, his citizens were taken hostage as well!



Sir Ji, wooo president house sae nikaltay howay 1000 baar sochtaa hai, as jaan jo piyari hai, wahan turkey jaa kae Israel kaa kiyaa mukablaa karay gaaa.

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## NA71

Indians will join Israel for support mother -----s...can't handle moist rebels and few freedom fighters on its own.....and praying for killers....your *** will also be screwed very soon.


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## mr42O

Thomas said:


> That is not true if it is Turkey who is instigating the conflict. and invading another countries territorial waters to run a blockade is an act of war



And what does USA do ? bring flowers too ppl ? Turkey is helping to free millions of ppl taken hostage by Isreal. 

EVERY ONCE SHOULD JOIN TURKEY ALSO PAKISTAN.

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## BATMAN

Thomas said:


> It would be such an un-wise move that I doubt it has any credence. Even in all the high emotions I would think Turkey would have better sense then to deliberately start a war. How would Turkey react if Israel sent warships into it's territorial waters. My guess is they would be fired upon. And they would have a right to do it.



With all due respect... do you think it was wise for US to send his armies to Afghanistan? or Iraq?
Turkish civilians are openly shot dead!
No investigation is required crime was witnessed by folks from all over the world.
It was unwise move by Israel... it has to face.. what ever comes next.
BTW... Turkey not need any support from NATO allies... it can handle Israel war machine all alone..... it will be complicated in case if Israel invite voluntiers and indians for war as it always did in past.
It is very important for Turkey to keep track of air traffic flewing into Israel.


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## FreekiN

vishalgutsy said:


> plz tell me who were the actual inhibitants of arabia before islam came..??
> khaibar , bani quraiza , bani juan etc etc etc... they all were jewish towns , who were massmurdered .



They weren't mass murdered. They broke treaties and were banished. 

Also, they weren't towns, they were tribes. Shows how much you know.

From there a majority of them went north and west and spread out toward Europe and the rest of Arabia. 

I can't believe you actually think Muslims hate Jews just because a bunch of 12 year olds went on about bombing Israel. 

Go study Muslim Spain and the Crusades. Muslims and Jews worked together and achieved victory in defending their conquered lands. 

Unfortunately, the majority of today's Jews only work for themselves, which is admirable indeed, but they overdo it and end up hurting those around them. And that is where today's conflict begins.

Generalizing and calling 1.5 billion people, "savages", really shows how little you know about Islamic History. Tell me, do you go to 'FaithFreedom' or 'AnsweringIslam'? If you do, I request you not to go there as they have been caught lieing countless times and have lost all credibility a month after both of them were born.


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## vishalgutsy

Areesh said:


> Yeah evil forces like these.




what else can u do if the suicide jacket wearing kid is hellbent to kill civilians.
i can post pics too to counter ure pics , but no use. my pics will be deleted right away.
have u ever thought that y in their schools , instaed of teaching them humanity and peace they teach them hate..??
why instead of making them engineers and doctors they are making them sucide bombers.


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## ISRO

BATMAN said:


> With all due respect... do you think it was wise for US to send his armies to Afghanistan? or Iraq?
> Turkish civilians are openly shot dead!
> No investigation is required crime was witnessed by folks from all over the world.
> It was unwise move by Israel... it has to face.. what ever comes next.
> BTW... Turkey not need any support from NATO allies... it can handle Israel war machine all alone..... it will be complicated in case if Israel invite voluntiers and indians for war as it always did in past.
> It is very important for Turkey to keep track of air traffic flewing into Israel.



I dont think Terkey gonna do war with Isreal ... same nuke factor applied here in case of war


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## xenia

vishalgutsy said:


> what else can u do if the suicide jacket wearing kid is hellbent to kill civilians.
> i can post pics too to counter ure pics , but no use. my pics will be deleted right away.
> have u ever thought that y in their schools , instaed of teaching them humanity and peace they teach them hate..??
> why instead of making them engineers and doctors they are making them sucide bombers.


child we are already *fighting them*..go see some news channel!!(if u r pointing towards pakistan)


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## mr42O

I LOVE U TURKEY. TAKE DOWN THESE EVIL. I HOPE PAKISTAN JOINS THEM AND ALL OTHER MUSLIMS COUNTRIES TOO.

IRAN SHOULD ALSO JOIN. TIME IS COME TO STOP ISREALI RACIST TERROR STATE


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## mr42O

vishalgutsy said:


> what else can u do if the suicide jacket wearing kid is hellbent to kill civilians.
> i can post pics too to counter ure pics , but no use. my pics will be deleted right away.
> have u ever thought that y in their schools , instaed of teaching them humanity and peace they teach them hate..??
> why instead of making them engineers and doctors they are making them sucide bombers.



Do u se any jacked ? What more can accept from some Indians ?

What a stupid comment . How can they give eduaction to ppl living as they are doing ? Isreal are not allowing much.

---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------




ISRO said:


> I dont think Terkey gonna do war with Isreal ... same nuke factor applied here in case of war



And only Isreal have nuke ?


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## ISRO

mr42O said:


> I LOVE U TURKEY. TAKE DOWN THESE EVIL. I HOPE PAKISTAN JOINS THEM AND ALL OTHER MUSLIMS COUNTRIES TOO.
> 
> IRAN SHOULD ALSO JOIN. TIME IS COME TO STOP ISREALI RACIST TERROR STATE



well if any other nation join that war so USa come straight to join that war


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## ISRO

mr42O said:


> Do u se any jacked ? What more can accept from some Indians ?
> 
> What a stupid comment . How can they give eduaction to ppl living as they are doing ? Isreal are not allowing much.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> And only Isreal have nuke ?



*well if talk about indian so what we can aspect pakistany people that support terrorism in india and call those terrorist freedom fighter ????*

in case of Isreal - Turkey .... yes only Isreal have nuke


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## Thomas

pak-yes said:


> Thomas last time i checked your Israeli masters attacked an unarmed vessel in International waters.



Boarding a commercial vessel with the resulting loss of human life, However tragic it is. Does not quite meet the same threshold as sending warships into territorial waters. flags of convenience are pretty much franchised sovereignty. It is also the reason why NATO would not consider them to be attacks upon Turkey. There by invoking intervention by NATO. An attack on a warship is a whole other matter. 

Remember when Iran was attacking commercial shipping in the Persian Gulf with mines and RPG's years back? Yet countries did not consider them acts of war.


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## Mani2020

ISRO said:


> well if any other nation join that war so USa come straight to join that war



lol first US have to defeat Afghan n Iraq fighters lol they cant win a war with so much military might wat the hell they do to join another war, Neither their economy and not their government can bear a burden of another war , they are kinda hand to mouth in afghanistan they want to leave but arnt leaving coz of the ego they have as a super power

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## Awesome

ABC Radio Australia News:Stories:Turkey's PM voices fury at Israel

Turkey's PM voices fury at Israel
Last Updated: Wed, 2 Jun 2010 02:00:00 +1000

Turkey's Prime Minister has voiced his fury at Israel over the raid on several aid ships that left at least 9 people dead.

Most of those killed and wounded in yesterday's raids were Turkish. 

And Israel's actions - whether justified or not - have sent already tense relations between the two nations to their lowest yet. 

Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has called the deaths a "bloody massacre", and said Israel must be punished for its actions.

"Nobody should test Turkey's patience. *Turkey's enmity is as violent as its friendship is valuable*. Losing Turkey's friendship is a cost all on its own," he said. 

Israel insists its soldiers acted within their rights, because it says they were under attack from activists on board.


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## Mani2020

ISRO said:


> *well if talk about indian so what we can aspect pakistany people that support terrorism in india and call those terrorist freedom fighter ????*
> 
> in case of Isreal - Turkey .... yes only Isreal have nuke



n u might need to visit those freedom fighters to have english clases coz its not "aspect" its expect


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## Areesh

vishalgutsy said:


> what else can u do if the suicide jacket wearing kid is hellbent to kill civilians.
> i can post pics too to counter ure pics , but no use. my pics will be deleted right away.
> have u ever thought that y in their schools , instaed of teaching them humanity and peace they teach them hate..??
> why instead of making them engineers and doctors they are making them sucide bombers.



Lollzzz How do you know they are wearing suicide jackets. What else can we expect from an Indian.


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## NA71

We will support ....coz it is occupied land like Israel ocupation of Gaza .... the two ****** nation on earth.


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## ISRO

Mani2020 said:


> n u might need to visit those freedom fighters to have english clases coz its not "aspect" its expect



instead of reply about post you find out only this ????

well if they are terrorist so u r


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## vishalgutsy

FreekiN said:


> They weren't mass murdered. They broke treaties and were banished.



yes they all were mass murdered. 
they broke treaties..?? 
what treaties..???
treaties had the precondition that accept islam or die , and when they refused to accept islam they were wiped out.
do u call this breaking a treaty..??
if im wrong , plz tell me what were in those treaties..??



[/QUOTE]Also, they weren't towns, they were tribes. Shows how much you know.[/QUOTE]

i know they werent town but tribes.
does it make it any difference ..??? the entire population of those tribes were massacared , and ure teaching me the difference between town n tribe..??

[/QUOTE]From there a majority of them went north and west and spread out toward Europe and the rest of Arabia.[/QUOTE] 

but why did they go to europe..?? 
why werent they allowed to live in thier native lands..??
they lived and called those lands home for thousands of years , why did they have to leave those lands..??

[/QUOTE]I can't believe you actually think Muslims hate Jews just because a bunch of 12 year olds went on about bombing Israel.[/QUOTE] 

who is making that 12 year old kid become a suicide bomber..??
who taught him that by killing civilians he will get 72 virgins..??

ure whole system is skewed and upside down.

tell me do all muslims hate jews or not ..??



[/QUOTE]Go study Muslim Spain and the Crusades.[/QUOTE]

i can teach u about spain and crusades better than ure biased textbooks and zaid hamid.
lets not discuss it here. 

[/QUOTE]Muslims and Jews worked together and achieved victory in defending their conquered lands.[/QUOTE] 

really..???
which land...???
all the lands of jews today have been taken by muslims .
jews are left with only a tiny piece of land called israel today , and muslims are after that too.

[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, the majority of today's Jews only work for themselves, which is admirable indeed, but they overdo it and end up hurting those around them. And that is where today's conflict begins.[/QUOTE]

what...???
so according to u.. reason of these conflicts is that jews are working too much..??
do u know what ure talking.???
the war in the Middle East is not over land. It is over religious beliefs.
it is becoz of the hatred that is spoonfed to the kids of palestine and other islamic countries against jews.

FACE IT

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## NA71

You occupy someone's land and ask their kids to become engineers and doctors


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## DesiGuy

Not sure what country would that be, but there will defiantly be a war between Israel and "x"! 

i put x, cuz the other nation is unknown!


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## FreekiN

Fix your post, vishalgusty. Then I will reply.

The format is [quote} text {/quote]

replace { and } with [ and ]


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## BATMAN

Parashuram1 said:


> This is impractical from a leader's perspective. *Mr. Erdogan will only be risking his own neck *by taking a trip to the embattled zone. Navy escort is understandable but why would a national leader go there and do something like this? This is not the era of warrior kings and sultans who would lead an Army and Mr. Erdogan certainly seems to have put on age since his term of service in military.
> 
> This is sheer over-reaction and giving a political edge to a military scenario.



Erdogan risking his neck for some thing you can never understand.
Our beliefs and values about life are 180° opposite. even i try to explain you it will never be enough.
FYI, It is not the first time in our history and i hope not the last.


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## Meengla

@Thomas is correct again: NATO is not going to come to support Turkey. American position is clear: Turkey's strong voice for the recent UNSC vote was watered down by Americans and they will again find a way to remove any NATO involvement in case of Turkey-Israel shooting war (ie if that war ever happens--very unlikely). These are the realities.

But..let's say hypothetically, there is a shooting war which escalates to full-blown conflict. I am almost certain the Syrians, Hizbollah, and Gazans would join the Turks, if not even Jordan/Egypt. That will be multiple front, with rains of missiles destroying Israeli infrastructure while Israelis doing major damage as well. The option before Israel could be using tactical nukes to prevent any advancing armies. Will Pakistan stay silent? I think not. There is going to be open passage for Pakistani forces to reach Turkey and give them the needed; Iran would welcome that.
So...are the nukes even an option for Israel unless Israeli wish is to go the Samson Option route: Bring down the world if the Zionist dreams is ending.
So much of this is all possible, however unlikely. Human beings have killed each other in madness before and I don't see enough 'maturity' to prevent more massive blood-bath.


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## Awesome

You know, Nato is not going to come to Turkey's aid. 

Israel can Nuke Istanbul and even then Nato will not come to Turkey's aid. We've seen this happen between our war with India. Turkey should be smarter than we were, and do not put all their eggs in the western basket.


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## SEAL

Tayyip Erdogen rocks.

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## r3alist

> This is not the era of warrior kings and sultans who would lead an Army



if only it were, perhaps leaders would behave with valour and decency, instead of cowardice and sophistry


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## Comet

This is one strange move. 
What do you guys think: is this because of his Islamic identity or is this because he want popularity and votes, or is this because he is a good human being?


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## Awesome

umairp said:


> This is one strange move.
> What do you guys think: is this because of his Islamic identity or is this because he want popularity and votes, or is this because he is a good human being?


This is what ANY nation should do. The only thing is our nation's leaders are sold off to these western powers perhaps even on their payrolls, so they never really uphold national pride or try to do the right thing like feed hungry and destitute people and prevent a genocide.

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## r3alist

umairp said:


> This is one strange move.
> What do you guys think: is this because of his Islamic identity or is this because he want popularity and votes, or is this because he is a good human being?



i would guess a bit of everything

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## KillBill

umairp said:


> This is one strange move.
> What do you guys think: is this because of his Islamic identity or is this because he want popularity and votes, or is this because he is a good human being?



I think this is a pure publicity stunt. He wants to get popular world wide, look now all international news channels must be streaming this as a breaking news. 

This issue could have been dealt in a better way. Anyway just let sit back and watch as the story unfolds

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## jin

umairp said:


> This is one strange move.
> What do you guys think: is this because of his Islamic identity or is this because he want popularity and votes, or is this because he is a good human being?




No because confront the evil, though i dont consider it a wise move

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## My-Analogous

S-A-B-E-R-> said:


> guys remember we pakistanis r always present in war against israel remember our nuclear umbrella if israel dare to threaten with their nukes we ll do the same for turkey or any other country ...



Under NATO turkey also have nuke and she can used it with the permission of NATO to defend their country


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## xenia

Meengla said:


> @Thomas is correct again: NATO is not going to come to support Turkey. American position is clear: Turkey's strong voice for the recent UNSC vote was watered down by Americans and they will again find a way to remove any NATO involvement in case of Turkey-Israel shooting war (ie if that war ever happens--very unlikely). These are the realities.
> 
> But..let's say hypothetically, there is a shooting war which escalates to full-blown conflict. I am almost certain the Syrians, Hizbollah, and Gazans would join the Turks, if not even Jordan/Egypt. That will be multiple front, with rains of missiles destroying Israeli infrastructure while Israelis doing major damage as well. The option before Israel could be using tactical nukes to prevent any advancing armies. Will Pakistan stay silent? I think not. There is going to be open passage for Pakistani forces to reach Turkey and give them the needed; Iran would welcome that.
> So...are the nukes even an option for Israel unless Israeli wish is to go the Samson Option route: Bring down the world if the Zionist dreams is ending.
> So much of this is all possible, however unlikely. Human beings have killed each other in madness before and I don't see enough 'maturity' to prevent more massive blood-bath.


WW-III
at the most it would a *limited war*, even if it occurs at all..then som international actors ll intervene n game ll b over..oh not to forget the war crime reports that ll come afterwards but wont move a lice on uncle sams head!


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## xenia

Asim Aquil said:


> You know, Nato is not going to come to Turkey's aid.
> 
> *Israel can Nuke Istanbul* and even then Nato will not come to Turkey's aid. We've seen this happen between our war with India. Turkey should be smarter than we were, and do not put all their eggs in the western basket.


i dont think even in isanity any such thing is going to happen..no mukes or it would b WW3..
n pakistans case was different..we were not entitled to get help except for the *cold* adversaries..our rulers were foolish to rely on US..
n even NATO members (esp EU) may have different stances..i dont think even they ll agree on single strategy..


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## jin

Tiger Prowling said:


> Send me ur address too.


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## Meengla

KillBill said:


> I think this is a *pure publicity stunt*. He wants to get popular world wide, look now all international news channels must be streaming this as a breaking news.
> 
> This issue could have been dealt in a better way. Anyway just let sit back and watch as the story unfolds



'Pure publicity stunt'?! A stunt which is going to put Turkey in the radar of the very powerful forces unleashed since 9/11 to portray everything as 'War Against Terrorism'? A stunt which is very likely to at least delay Turkish EU membership. A stunt which is going to hurt Turkish economy, or at least its tourism (about half a million Israelis alone go to Turkey each year) by portraying Turkey as another Iran? A stunt which can eventually be a trigger for Israel's implants in the West to diplomatically corner Turkey over Kurdistan and the Armenian question?

I think not. This is not a stunt at all. 

Turkey is waking up to this true roots which were always in the East. Only a sliver of Turkey lies in Europe. Only a few decades separate the now-Kemalist Turkey to its Ottoman Empire. And few decades of policy changes do not make tens of millions to forget their true 'roots'.

Turkey gains a lot by following its instinct to be close to the East. It may well one day regain its lost prestige AND, as a byproduct, vast business contracts by 'turning East'. The Arabs 'streat', which is pro-Turkey these days, will one day become Arab official voice. And Turkey does not have to become a nation of public-floggings and beheadings like Iran is today to be a Muslim democratic country. Only some self-centered Turkish generals sipping vodka would be paranoid enough to stop the Turkish march to independence and prominence.


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## Materialistic

*In my opinion, Turkey is going for the right thing at the right time.*

Currently, Israel has distant itself from major European countries + Canada, Australia and to a very small extent US(in short all of nato countries). And already US media is talking about Israel distancing itself from Washington and there is a feeling going on in US media (namely CNN) that Washington won't be able to go more ahead with Israel if Israel will further put this alliance to test. 

So, in such a case if anything happens, it would be stupid to blame Turkey by saying that it deserved an aggression from Israel just because Turkish PM went to help Gaza with peaceful intentions (of course Turkish navy is there to handle any adventures by Israel but not for aggression).

And European nations along with Aussies would support Turkey over Israel since they are already protesting through every possible way they can on Mossad's killing of Hamas Leader and illegal usage of passports. 

Few days back, UN or US pushed for sanctions on Israel if it doesn't provide its Nuclear warheads to UN or something. (i don't have the link currently).

On top of that, West also sees Turkey as a more liberal Muslim country and its existence irritates them far lesser than other Muslim country, So the current international political environment seems to be more in favor of Turkey.


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## LegionnairE

gambit said:


> Thnx. I can conclude that Israel is not a national security threat to Turkey.



Israel is far away from being a national security threat to Turkey. They must expand their navy but i doubt they have enough human resources to do it...


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## FreekiN

"Israel fights back on Youtube"

How ******* pathetic.

"Knives and poles" ? "Abandon reason"

Who the **** brought automatic weapons onto the boat? *WHO KILLED 9 PEOPLE?*






Go **** yourself, seriously.

There were Holocaust survivors and a Nobel Peace prize winner on those boats. I wonder if they also took part in beating up that soldier.


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## Meengla

gambit said:


> Nonsense. No one support anyone unconditionally. We all support someone based upon certain criteria or characters that overrode any flaws he may have. That mental calculus indicate conditional support.



History is full of national follies and it is quite conceivable that Americans--who should not be in the dire financial straits considering the enormous natural resources and relative geographical isolation--have been suffering because of various 'lobbies'.
But not other Lobby hurts America more than the money-lobby of Pro-Israelis; this Lobby gives a politician what he/she wants more: Winning a seat in the Congress or losing it--as a few have who were brave enough.

Here is an article by another Jew. Unlike you some of you (perhaps a lot with dual Israeli-American citizenship), Mr. Rosenberg truly loves Israel and Jews and I admire him for both and for his love of justice.

Read on. The excerpt below is the most thought-provoking part of Rosenberg's article. Bolded part by me.

MJ Rosenberg: Glenn Beck's Israel Problem




> Is there anyone who can possibly make the case that America benefits from* being the only country in the entire world that endorsed the Israeli attack on the flotilla? Does it make sense that the center-left American government backed it while the center-right British government condemned it? (It does make a certain sense, but only in the context of the financing of political campaigns.)*


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## gambit

LegionnairE said:


> Israel is far away from being a national security threat to Turkey. They must expand their navy but i doubt they have enough human resources to do it...


While distance alone can reduce the possibility of being such a threat, with modern weapons, any country can be such a threat. The questions here are why would Israel *WANT* to make herself such a threat? For what purpose? Towards what goal? Does Turkey view Israel as such a threat? Does Turkey want to? For what purpose? Towards what goal? We are talking about at the moment of Israel's political creation. Between then and now of course the political landscape and currents have changed but there must be a prime cause for a hostile attitude between nations. I have yet to see any credible explanation regarding that prime cause as to why does Iran is so hostile to the Jewish state.


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## gambit

Meengla said:


> History is full of national follies and it is quite conceivable that Americans--who should not be in the dire financial straits considering the enormous natural resources and relative geographical isolation--have been suffering because of various 'lobbies'.
> But not other Lobby hurts America more than the money-lobby of Pro-Israelis; this Lobby gives a politician what he/she wants more: Winning a seat in the Congress or losing it--as a few have who were brave enough.
> 
> Here is an article by another Jew. Unlike you some of you (perhaps a lot with dual Israeli-American citizenship), Mr. Rosenberg truly loves Israel and Jews and I admire him for both and for his love of justice.
> 
> Read on. The excerpt below is the most thought-provoking part of Rosenberg's article. Bolded part by me.
> 
> MJ Rosenberg: Glenn Beck's Israel Problem


You are avoiding the original charge, which is that the US support Israel 'unconditionally'. That is not true. No one ever does. You are a flawed person. You have some personality traits or even character defects that may be offensive and repulsive to some, tolerable to others, and simply minor to others. So the question is why do some 'others' find you worthy of their friendship and loyalty despite these differences? The reasons could be familial, national or ethnic bonds. No different for nation-states. The more in common nation-states have with each other, the more aligned their interests, the greater their flaws are overlooked and this is how political alliances are created. This is clearly a very conditional approach to support.


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## Meengla

gambit said:


> You are avoiding the original charge, which is that the US support Israel 'unconditionally'. That is not true. No one ever does. You are a flawed person. You have some personality traits or even character defects that may be offensive and repulsive to some, tolerable to others, and simply minor to others. So the question is why do some 'others' find you worthy of their friendship and loyalty despite these differences? *The reasons could be familial, national or ethnic bonds. No different for nation-states. The more in common nation-states have with each other, the more aligned their interests, the greater their flaws are overlooked and this is how political alliances are created. This is clearly a very conditional approach to support*.



Yes, the bolded part I agree with fully. I think 'morality' is often a camouflage for our intrinsic association with someone we view as our closest ethnic/religious biases. And hence you will see a vast number of American Jewish -in the media- supporting Israel and this forum is obviously very pro Palestinian and pro Turkey.

I see history as a struggle for resources. We fight ostensibly for ideological reasons but deep down--however hidden or deep--we know which side will eventually be good for our own 'material' gains. Marx is still correct scientifically even if Soviet Union died. Though I am not a Marxist at all in a political sense.

Coming back to some specifics: I think you should be honest enough to acknowledge that Israelis and their overseas supporters often call themselves as the 'outpost of the West' in the Middle East. And yet, more and more, it is only the American Congress and the Evangelical Christians who unquesntionalty support Israel. Western Europe is not less 'Western' than United States. And, contrary to the Islamo-phobia that many subscribe to, Western Europe, on the whole, has its Muslim community in far lesser numbers and influence than is portrayed as.

I am convinced that it is the hijacking of American political system and of American media by very powerful and rich Americans of mostly Jewish origin who have managed to manipulate American policy that Israel's favor. And Rosenberg, as I post above, is but one source. I want you and others to look up Stephen Waltz and John Mearsheimer (spp?) and their brilliant theses that it is the Israeli Lobby which continues to push Americans toward policies which are often not good for Israel AND America.

I am not dodging any questions. You, on the other hand, is too tied in some narrative of Islamophobia and the War between Civilizations. There are plenty in 'the West' you will find--many Jews as well--who know the dangers associated with pushing 1.5 billion Muslims to an ideological war where NO ONE will 'win'.

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## sraja

Turkey is going to do this, turkey is going to do that...All bluffs...No action....

At the end of day, nothing is going to happen.

If Islamist government of Turkey cuts off relations with Israel, Turkey and its people will be the loser. Turkey will lose all the sophisticated technologies Israel could offer in various fields. Turkey will remain militarily backward. 

It is the time for Secular Turkish Army to kick out this islamist government and restore secularism in Turkey. More islamization by Ergoden government will take Turkey more backward.


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## sraja

FreekiN said:


> Who the **** brought automatic weapons onto the boat? *WHO KILLED 9 PEOPLE?*



Who has beaten the soldier and initiated the conflict ?

Look at this vid,






Were they really peace activists or terrorists masquerading as peace activists ?


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## FreekiN

sraja said:


> Who has beaten the soldier and initiated the conflict ?
> 
> Look at this vid,
> 
> Gaza flotilla participants invoked killing of Jews
> 
> Were they really peace activists or terrorists masquerading as peace activists ?



Thats literally the most retarded thing i've ever heard. 

The people on the flotilla had every right to defend themselves with whatever was available. Israel's bogus claim of 'knives' has been busted. They killed 9 people who were defending themselves. The whole world knows it. Case closed.


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## sraja

FreekiN said:


> The people on the flotilla had every right to defend themselves with whatever was available.



Defend themselves even before they were physically attacked ? 

Stop bullshitting man !


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## below_freezing

sraja said:


> Defend themselves even before they were physically attacked ?
> 
> Stop bullshitting man !



Seems like Indians are too used to being beaten and killed by their own Brahmin police to think independently.


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## sraja

below_freezing said:


> Seems like Indians are too used to being beaten and killed by their own Brahmin police to think independently.



Stop talking nonsense.

By the way, How is Chinese ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Tibetans going on XinXiang and Tibet ?


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## below_freezing

sraja said:


> Stop talking nonsense.
> 
> By the way, How is Chinese ethnic cleansing of Muslims and Tibetans going on XinXiang and Tibet ?



Obviously not going well enough considering that the Tibetan population has been increasing since 1950 and muslims in xinjiang are less than 10% of all muslims in china.

how are muslims doing in india? still being slaughtered worse than palestinians by israelis?


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## sraja

below_freezing said:


> Obviously not going well enough considering that the Tibetan population has been increasing since 1950 and muslims in xinjiang are less than 10% of all muslims in china.



Really ? Tell that to someone who can believe in the propaganda of your Communist party.

Muslims & Tibetans are getting outnumbered and hence ethnic cleansed by mass-migration of Han Chinese population. This is 100 times worst than anything Israel is accused of doing on Palestinians. But, Wily Chinese are doing everything silently. This is the systematic state policy of imperialist communist party of china.


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## Meengla

sraja said:


> Really ? Tell that to someone who can believe in the propaganda of your Communist party.
> 
> Muslims & Tibetans are getting outnumbered and hence ethnic cleansed by mass-migration of Han Chinese population. This is 100 times worst than anything Israel is accused of doing on Palestinians. But, Wily Chinese are doing everything silently. This is the systematic state policy of imperialist communist party of china.



I don't know enough about what China is doing in Tibet or Sinkiang to comment on that.

But I will tell you one thing: Pro-Israeli bloggers are lashing out at Turkey by bringing up Kurdistan and Armenia recently.

And you are probably the first Indian I know who is attacking China by bringing up Tibet and Sinkiang because Chinese bloggers are in general pro-Palestinians.


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## Meengla

sraja said:


> Turkey is going to do this, turkey is going to do that...All bluffs...No action....
> 
> At the end of day, nothing is going to happen.
> 
> If Islamist government of Turkey cuts off relations with Israel, Turkey and its people will be the loser. Turkey will lose all the sophisticated technologies Israel could offer in various fields. Turkey will remain militarily backward.
> 
> *It is the time for Secular Turkish Army to kick out this islamist government and restore secularism in Turkey*. More islamization by Ergoden government will take Turkey more backward.



Interesting quote, coming from 'the largest democracy in the world'! Perhaps the same 'logic' was applied by Israel when Hamas won the last elections in 2007--free and fair, no disagreement on that at least. Too bad, soon after that, the blockade began.

As to your remark about Turkey losing a lot because of Israeli non-cooperation in military affairs, I'd say that I am not an expert in that. I do know that the bilateral trade is only about $2.5 billion per year--a puny amount. I also know that Turkey is still part of the NATO and thus, so long as that persists, Turkey will be just fine. I also suspect modern warfare is so different from the previous ones that even---EVEN IF--Israelis manages to destroy the entire Turkish military it will come at a cost too much for Israel.

Bottom line: Israel needs Turkey more than vice versa. This whole 'Islamist' Turkey is just too simplistic: Turks will continue to sip their vodka and put on Hijabs while marching on in their march of history. So don't be too ideological there.


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## Sino-PakFriendship

sraja said:


> Really ? Tell that to someone who can believe in the propaganda of your Communist party.
> 
> Muslims & Tibetans are getting outnumbered and hence ethnic cleansed by mass-migration of Han Chinese population. This is 100 times worst than anything Israel is accused of doing on Palestinians. But, Wily Chinese are doing everything silently. This is the systematic state policy of imperialist communist party of china.



Xinjiang and Tibet is historical part of China.

Who supported Tibet independence from China? 
Britain Empire, because she wants to extend her empire from India to Tibet of China.

Who supported so-called East Turkistan? 
USSR not Turkey in 1944-49!
Because USSR used Uyghur card to force KMT&#65288;ROC&#65289; to negotiate with CCP, and let ROC to admit Outer Mongolia independence!

There is NO Tibet and East Turkistan in morden time!

USA supports ROC, she never recognize Tibet and East Turkistan. Just only China turns from ROC to PRC, USA decides to destablize China.&#12288;



Uyghur and Tibetan know that they are only playing cards for anti-China powers!


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## Sino-PakFriendship

sraja said:


> Really ? Tell that to someone who can believe in the propaganda of your Communist party.
> 
> Muslims & Tibetans are getting outnumbered and hence ethnic cleansed by mass-migration of Han Chinese population. This is 100 times worst than anything Israel is accused of doing on Palestinians. But, Wily Chinese are doing everything silently. This is the systematic state policy of imperialist communist party of china.



Tibet and Xinjiang issue cannot be compared with Palestine issue.

There is neither Israel nor Palestine state in the World before WWII.

But China has legimate sovereignty over Tibet and Xinjiang. Both Legue of Nations and UN supports this!


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## turkaholic

sraja said:


> Defend themselves even before they were physically attacked ?
> 
> Stop bullshitting man !



How the F do you know that? Did Israel release the videos before and after this incident? Did you see any video before the Israeli soldiers landed on the ship and have you seen anything what actually pushed those people to defend themselves with sticks and sling shots. Israel confiscated all the cameras and video cameras and did not give them back and release the footage. They obviously have something to hide. 

And stop sucking Israeli balls. The reason why an Indian is siding with Israel is all because it is an issue involving Muslims.

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## Furqankhan

Aslamo Alaikum,
I salute our brothers in Turkey and the government for speaking out loud against israeli terror and violent actions against the people of palestine. Pakistan being the only Muslim nuclear power is tangled in internal feuds and most of the government officials are taking bribes from foriegn enemies. They want to keep Pakistan busy away from any strong action.
Agenda:
-Keep Pakistan busy in terrorism,bomb blasts,racial & religious violence.
-Keep pakistan from becomming financially strong.
-Keep wrong elements in control / government.
-Keep Pakistan from developing any relationship with Iran.

May Allah help poor people and punish all responsible. Ameen.

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## john9802

really sensible post. agree with you. Gandhi would be sad yeah, but atleast India is on the right track now. Jinnah would be sad too, if he was here he would think what is this, this is what we fought and struggled for? this is why our people died? so some scum like zardari and co rob our people while no one stands up to them? These people clearly have no respect for our leaders and their hard work, they don't give a **** about our people, would be good if they had been aborted. lol. 

yeah i really think India and Pakistan should have peace, i really don't want this tu tu-meh meh to go on for eternity. just end it now, and both sides must play fair only then it will work. imagine if Pakistan and India have peace. So much of the budget would go towards the right things (education) and both can become developed nations then. I've always thought that the pakistani and indian people don't hate each other, its the governments which do and they start fire. i know a lot of indian people and we get along soo nicely. but i guess the leaders of USA don't want that either (not talking bout USA public), they don't want competition, now do they?

I just hope this gets sorted out before it involves everyone and i pray for the betterment of our countries.


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## Comet

KillBill said:


> I think this is a pure publicity stunt. He wants to get popular world wide, look now all international news channels must be streaming this as a breaking news.
> 
> This issue could have been dealt in a *better way*. Anyway just let sit back and watch as the story unfolds



BTW, What is the better way?


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## M8R

Won't be surprised if Israel start showing Jihadi Links between Turkey and Alqaeda.Some zionists jouralists are working hard on this lol.Idiots.


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## zagahaga

wow TURKS ... nothing going to happen its all hyped


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## Al-zakir

gaurish said:


> I will ask you one thing
> 
> is it practical what you are saying? the substance in the article is non sense... you will not know. i don know how many terrorist attack your country has suffered through cross border
> 
> As long as u have India as neighbour on border you are rest assured there wont be cross border terrorism... Israel case is different... israel has suffered terrorism from its neighbours
> 
> Secondly please take any country s name with respect or if you don have the courtesy don take names... i think you would mind if i call u bangy...



Please compare the map of Palestine from 1946 to present. It almost reverse from original state. Where did this state called Israel come from in few decade? How do you think original inhabitant of this land react to this alien force and why isn't their cause justify to take their mother land back by any means necessary? 

Let say Bangladesh some how acquire super weapon and take over your country by force. 

Will you accept our rule over you or You will try to cut our neck when we ain't looking?

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## Cityboy

zagahaga said:


> wow TURKS ... nothing going to happen its all hyped



exactly. Nthng gonna happen. .here members r giving clause of nato to attack israel. .lol. .the unwritten clause of zionist nato wont help turkey. .they will left alone.


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## zagahaga

baically turkey is being dum... if they really want to help gaza send it by land dont let thoes <> have an excuse that you are a terriost and you support them


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## Awesome

zagahaga said:


> baically turkey is being dum... if they really want to help gaza send it by land dont let thoes <> have an excuse that you are a terriost and you support them


Stop cursing around. 

Turkey is not going to attack Israel, its going to feed people in need of help in Gaza.

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## Comet

*Turkish PM mulls over joining Gaza aid flotilla backed by Turkish Navy*


TURKISH Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was considering sailing to the Gaza Strip as part of an aid flotilla backed by the Turkish Navy.

Lebanese newspaper al Mustaqbal quoted security sources as saying that Mr Erdogan was pondering the move in order to break the barrier imposed against Gaza by Israel.

It said that "as part of the open conflict between Turkey and Israel following the massacre against the 'freedom sail' to Gaza and the protest sparked in the world, Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan is considering going to Gaza himself in order to break the blockade imposed on the Strip."

The sources said Erdogan raised the option in discussions with associates.

The report added that the Turkish leader also told the U.S. that he planned to ask his navy to escort another aid flotilla - but officials in Washington asked him to delay the plan in order to look into the matter.


The move followed strong criticism of Israel by Erdogan after Israeli armed forces killed several people on board an aid flotilla Monday, sparking widespread international condemnation.

When the possibility of Erdogan joining a flotilla was posed to Mark Regev, the spokesman for the Israeli prime minister, he said such a move was not a "realistic scenario" and dismissed it outright.

"Some of these reports must be taken with a grain of salt ... I am not sure that is a realistic scenario," he told Sky News.

"I prefer that we sort these things out peacefully. Nobody wants any saber-rattling. It does not do any good," said Regev.

Turkish PM mulls over joining Gaza aid flotilla backed by Turkish Navy | Herald Sun


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## zagahaga

sorry bro i just hate the ignorance of isreal ja know .... baically i just dont want turkey to be embargoed for starting a war that they dident start


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## Tiger Prowling

vishalgutsy said:


> yes they all were mass murdered.
> they broke treaties..??
> what treaties..???
> treaties had the precondition that accept islam or die , and when they refused to accept islam they were wiped out.
> do u call this breaking a treaty..??
> if im wrong , plz tell me what were in those treaties..??


Also, they weren't towns, they were tribes. Shows how much you know.[/QUOTE]

i know they werent town but tribes.
does it make it any difference ..??? the entire population of those tribes were massacared , and ure teaching me the difference between town n tribe..??

[/QUOTE]From there a majority of them went north and west and spread out toward Europe and the rest of Arabia.[/QUOTE] 

but why did they go to europe..?? 
why werent they allowed to live in thier native lands..??
they lived and called those lands home for thousands of years , why did they have to leave those lands..??

[/QUOTE]I can't believe you actually think Muslims hate Jews just because a bunch of 12 year olds went on about bombing Israel.[/QUOTE] 

who is making that 12 year old kid become a suicide bomber..??
who taught him that by killing civilians he will get 72 virgins..??

ure whole system is skewed and upside down.

tell me do all muslims hate jews or not ..??



[/QUOTE]Go study Muslim Spain and the Crusades.[/QUOTE]

i can teach u about spain and crusades better than ure biased textbooks and zaid hamid.
lets not discuss it here. 

[/QUOTE]Muslims and Jews worked together and achieved victory in defending their conquered lands.[/QUOTE] 

really..???
which land...???
all the lands of jews today have been taken by muslims .
jews are left with only a tiny piece of land called israel today , and muslims are after that too.

[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, the majority of today's Jews only work for themselves, which is admirable indeed, but they overdo it and end up hurting those around them. And that is where today's conflict begins.[/QUOTE]

what...???
so according to u.. reason of these conflicts is that jews are working too much..??
do u know what ure talking.???
the war in the Middle East is not over land. It is over religious beliefs.
it is becoz of the hatred that is spoonfed to the kids of palestine and other islamic countries against jews.

FACE IT[/QUOTE]

*Your knowlege of muslim history is at best pathetic. There were no treaties of muslim's with jew's that say, convert or be killed.

All they muslim,s wanted from these jew's is to remain nuetral in case the Quresh tribe attacks madina, but as in there blood they tried to play double game and paid the price.

Jew's were more killed and banished by christian than muslim's in history, go check early christian history.

Jew's r like parasite's, they eat there host from inside untill its to late. (american's will know that very soon).

Just imagine no planted Israel in ME, will there be any conflict between Muslim's and chirstian.


Jew's know that there survival depends upon Muslim/Chirstian confilit, otherwise they will be in deep trouble coz of there double's face nature.

Jesus christ was crucified coz of jewish informer.
*


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## American Pakistani

Salute 2 Erdogan.
Go Turkeye Go, Pakistan stands with u n will assist u if u need.


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## Mani2020

jin said:


> No because confront the evil, though i dont consider it a wise move



But i consider it a good move because i think

1) it will boost up the Palestinian's morale, atleast now they are aware of the fact that someone is there to stand up for their rights

2) The other muslim nations will also rethink n regroup after this act n may future will bring them also in the party

3) It will create a sense of unity b/w muslims

4) N most importantly israel may will reconsider their acts after knowing that some forces are openly resisting her evil deeds with courage

5) If this happens it will b kinda revolution in muslim world

And remember a war is due b/w Muslims and Jews and its not me who is saying this , Its in our Ahadith books and also in jewish scripture thats how it will trigger

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## Aslan

ISRO said:


> *well if talk about indian so what we can aspect pakistany people that support terrorism in india and call those terrorist freedom fighter ????*
> 
> in case of Isreal - Turkey .... yes only Isreal have nuke



The last time I checked A Moron was lecturing 2 very senior members here about how to spell *hindustani*, when they had written *hindustany* So as you guys like to whine about the spellings and details. Remember this that *Pakistani* is the right word and not *Pakistany*


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## Aslan

Thomas said:


> Boarding a commercial vessel with the resulting loss of human life, However tragic it is. Does not quite meet the same threshold as sending warships into territorial waters. flags of convenience are pretty much franchised sovereignty. It is also the reason why NATO would not consider them to be attacks upon Turkey. There by invoking intervention by NATO. An attack on a warship is a whole other matter.
> 
> Remember when Iran was attacking commercial shipping in the Persian Gulf with mines and RPG's years back? Yet countries did not consider them acts of war.



I hope this will answer your argument.

*America Joins The War
America was a reluctant to participate in World War 1, infact in august 1914 when the war broke out in Europe; President Woodrow Wilson issued a declaration of neutrality. Preferring to remain isolated from the war, America tried to broker peace between the allies and the axis, the war was in Europe; America did not need to get involved.

On May 7th 1915, German U-boats, patrolling in the Atlantic Ocean, fired torpedos at the British passenger ship Lucitania sinking her in 20 minutes. Onboard were 128 Americans.

Woodrow Wilson, demanded that Germany stop attacking passenger ships, and declared that America was too proud to fight.

Wilson also tried to mediate a compromise settlement but failed.

Wilson also repeatedly warned that America would not tolerate unrestricted submarine warfare, as it was in violation to American ideas of human rights. Wilson was under great pressure from former president Theodore Roosevelt, who denounced German "piracy" and Wilson's cowardice.

In January 1917, Germany announced it would destroy all ships heading to Britain. Although Wilson broke off diplomatic ties with Germany, he still hoped to avert war by arming merchant vessels as a deterrent. Nevertheless, Germany began sinking American ships immediately.
*

The above happened in international waters, and mind you it has been documented extensively throughout history that the US was at time supplying munition to the Brits under the pretext of commercial shipping. So that in a way was a legal target for the Germans, but when that scenario can start a war then what happens when an aid convoy gets attacked.


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## rameez ahmed

Oren: Turkey has embraced the leaders of Iran and Hamas
By HILARY LEILA KRIEGER
06/06/2010 05:28

Erdogan: Hamas is not a terrorist organization.
Talkbacks (5)

WASHINGTON  Israel envoy criticized Ankaras outreach to terrorist groups Friday, the same day that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was quoted as saying Hamas is not a terrorist organization.

Turkey has embraced the leaders of Iran and Hamas, all of whom called for Israels destruction, Ambassador Michael Oren declared.

Our policy has not changed but Turkeys policy has changed, very much, over the last few years, he said. Under a different government with an Islamic orientation, Turkey has turned away from the West.

But Oren, speaking on a conference call organized by The Israel Project, held out hope for reconciliation.

We certainly do not have any desire in any further deterioration in our relations with the Turks, he said. Its an important Middle Eastern power. It has been a friend in the past.

Erdogan on Friday declared at a rally that Hamas is not a terrorist organization, but a resistance movement, according to the Istanbul-based daily Hürriyet.

Erdogan said that Hamas, the legitimate winner of the Palestinian elections, was fighting for its land.

You are always talking about democracy. Youll never let Hamas rule. What kind of democracy is this? he said, apparently addressing the Israeli leadership.

I do not think that Hamas is a terrorist organization, Erdogan was quoted as saying. They are Palestinians in resistance, fighting for their own land.

The Turkish leader went on to echo Tuesdays speech, in which he called Israels boarding of the Gaza flotilla a massacre.

In his address Friday, he said the Ten Commandments should have deterred the soldiers from killing the nine men who died onboard the Mavi Marmara. If you do not understand it in Turkish, I will say it in English: You shall not kill, he reportedly said  repeating the phrase in Hebrew.

They even slaughtered 19-year-old Furkan. They did not even care for the babies in the cradle, Erdogan said.

Nineteen-year-old Furkan Dogan, a Turkish-American was the youngest of the nine activists killed in the raid. His funeral Friday in his familys hometown in Kayseri in central Turkey drew 10,000 people, some chanting, Down with Israel.

Neither I nor his mother or brother have any grief, his father, Ahmet Dogan, told The Associated Press as he arranged flowers on his sons coffin before prayers started. We believe he became a martyr and God accepts martyrs to paradise.

In his speech, Erdogan also slammed Turkish media reports that were critical of his Justice and Development Partys support of Hamas, saying the columnists had a slanted view of the events.

Earlier on Friday, Turkeys deputy prime minister said his country would work to reduce its military and economic cooperation with Israel. Existing contracts would be reviewed and reworked or canceled, he said.



Oren: Turkey has embraced the leaders of Iran and Hamas


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## KillBill

umairp said:


> BTW, What is the better way?



The better way would be to put diplomatic pressure. These small errands will be termed as mis adventures. If her really is concerned about the people of Gaza ( what ever may be the reason) he should look out for a long term solution, which can feed them for years to come and the way in which the people of Gaza can be self sufficient. Taking a flotilla to Gaza is not going to change anything.


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## Aslan

KillBill said:


> The better way would be to put diplomatic pressure. These small errands will be termed as mis adventures. If her really is concerned about the people of Gaza ( what ever may be the reason) he should look out for a long term solution, which can feed them for years to come and the way in which the people of Gaza can be self sufficient. Taking a flotilla to Gaza is not going to change anything.



KB when you talk about Diplomatic Pressure let me divert your attention to the following; 

*United Nations General Assembly resolutions

See also: United Nations General Assembly resolution
This list is incomplete; 

1975 March 22: UN General Assembly Resolution 3379: equating Zionism with racism
1991

See also: United Nations Security Council resolution

Resolution 106: The Palestine Question (29 Mar 1955) 'condemns' Israel for Gaza raid.


Resolution 111: The Palestine Question (January 19, 1956) " ... 'condemns' Israel for raid on Syria that killed fifty-six people".

Resolution 127: The Palestine Question (January 22, 1958) " ... 'recommends' Israel suspends its 'no-man's zone' in Jerusalem".

Resolution 138: (June 23, 1960) Question relating to the case of Adolf Eichmann, concerning Argentine complaint that Israel breached its sovereignty.

Resolution 162: The Palestine Question (April 11, 1961) " ... 'urges' Israel to comply with UN decisions".

Resolution 171: The Palestine Question (April 9, 1962) " ... determines flagrant violations' by Israel in its attack on Syria".

Resolution 228: The Palestine Question (November 25, 1966) " ... 'censures' Israel for its attack on Samu in the West Bank, then under 
Jordanian control".

Resolution 237: Six Day War June 14, 1967) " ... 'urges' Israel to allow return of new 1967 Palestinian refugees".

Resolution 240 (October 25, 1967): concerning violations of the cease-fire

Resolution 242 (November 22, 1967): Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area. Calls on Israel's neighbors to end the state of belligerency and calls upon Israel to reciprocate by withdraw its forces from land claimed by other parties in 1967 war. Interpreted commonly today as calling for the Land for peace principle as a way to resolve Arab-Israeli conflict

Resolution 248: (March 24, 1968) " ... 'condemns' Israel for its massive attack on Karameh in Jordan".

Resolution 250: (April 27) " ... 'calls' on Israel to refrain from holding military parade in Jerusalem".

Resolution 251: (May 2) " ... 'deeply deplores' Israeli military parade in Jerusalem in defiance of Resolution 250".

Resolution 252: (May 21) " ... 'declares invalid' Israel's acts to unify Jerusalem as Jewish capital".

Resolution 256: (August 16) " ... 'condemns' Israeli raids on Jordan as 'flagrant violation".

Resolution 259: (September 27) " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to accept UN mission to probe occupation".

Resolution 262: (December 31) " ... 'condemns' Israel for attack on Beirut airport".

Resolution 265: (April 1, 1969) " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on Salt, Jordan".

Resolution 267: (July 3) " ... 'censures' Israel for administrative acts to change the status of Jerusalem".

Resolution 270: (August 26) " ... 'condemns' Israel for air attacks on villages in southern Lebanon".

Resolution 271: (September 15) " ... 'condemns' Israel's failure to obey UN resolutions on Jerusalem".

Resolution 279: (May 12, 1970) "Demands the immediate withdrawal of all Israeli armed forces from Lebanese territory."(full text)

Resolution 280: (May 19) " ... 'condemns' Israeli's attacks against Lebanon".

Resolution 285: (September 5) " ... 'demands' immediate Israeli withdrawal form Lebanon".

Resolution 298: (September 25, 1971) " ... 'deplores' Israel's changing of the status of Jerusalem".

Resolution 313: (February 28, 1972) " ... 'demands' that Israel stop attacks against Lebanon".

Resolution 316: (June 26) " ... 'condemns' Israel for repeated attacks on Lebanon".

Resolution 317: (July 21) " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to release Arabs abducted in Lebanon".

Resolution 332: (April 21) " ... 'condemns' Israel's repeated attacks against Lebanon".

Resolution 337: (August 15) " ... 'condemns' Israel for violating Lebanon's sovereignty".

Resolution 338 (22 October 1973): cease fire in Yom Kippur War

Resolution 339 (23 October 1973): Confirms Res. 338, dispatch UN observers.

Resolution 347: " ... 'condemns' Israeli attacks on Lebanon".

Resolution 350 (31 May 1974) established the United Nations Disengagement Observer Force, to monitor the ceasefire between 
Israel and Syria in the wake of the Yom Kippur War.

Resolution 425 (1978): " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon". Israel's withdrawal from Lebanon was completed by 16 June 2000.

Resolution 427: " ... 'calls' on Israel to complete its withdrawal from Lebanon".

Resolution 444: " ... 'deplores' Israel's lack of cooperation with UN 
peacekeeping forces".

Resolution 446 (1979): 'determines' that Israeli settlements are a 'serious obstruction' to peace and calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".

Resolution 450: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacking Lebanon".

Resolution 452: " ... 'calls' on Israel to cease building settlements in occupied territories".

Resolution 465: " ... 'deplores' Israel's settlements and asks all member states not to assist Israel's settlements program".

Resolution 467: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's military intervention in Lebanon".

Resolution 468: " ... 'calls' on Israel to rescind illegal expulsions of two Palestinian mayors and a judge and to facilitate their return".

Resolution 469: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's failure to observe the council's order not to deport Palestinians".

Resolution 471: " ... 'expresses deep concern' at Israel's failure to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention".

Resolution 476: " ... 'reiterates' that Israel's claim to Jerusalem are 'null and void'".

Resolution 478 (20 August 1980): 'censures (Israel) in the strongest terms' for its claim to Jerusalem in its 'Basic Law'.

Resolution 484: " ... 'declares it imperative' that Israel re-admit two deported Palestinian mayors".

Resolution 487: " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel for its attack on Iraq's nuclear facility".

Resolution 497 (17 December 1981) decides that Israel's annexation of Syria's Golan Heights is 'null and void' and demands that Israel rescinds its decision forthwith.

Resolution 498: " ... 'calls' on Israel to withdraw from Lebanon".

Resolution 501: " ... 'calls' on Israel to stop attacks against Lebanon and withdraw its troops".

Resolution 509: " ... 'demands' that Israel withdraw its forces forthwith and unconditionally from Lebanon".

Resolution 515: " ... 'demands' that Israel lift its siege of Beirut and allow food supplies to be brought in".

Resolution 517: " ... 'censures' Israel for failing to obey UN resolutions and demands that Israel withdraw its forces from Lebanon".

Resolution 518: " ... 'demands' that Israel cooperate fully with UN forces in Lebanon".

Resolution 520: " ... 'condemns' Israel's attack into West Beirut".

Resolution 573: " ... 'condemns' Israel 'vigorously' for bombing Tunisia in attack on PLO headquarters.

Resolution 587 " ... 'takes note' of previous calls on Israel to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and urges all parties to withdraw".

Resolution 592: " ... 'strongly deplores' the killing of Palestinian students at Bir Zeit University by Israeli troops".

Resolution 605: " ... 'strongly deplores' Israel's policies and practices denying the human rights of Palestinians.

Resolution 607: " ... 'calls' on Israel not to deport Palestinians and strongly requests it to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

Resolution 608: " ... 'deeply regrets' that Israel has defied the United Nations and deported Palestinian civilians".

Resolution 636: " ... 'deeply regrets' Israeli deportation of Palestinian civilians.

Resolution 641 (30 Aug 1989): " ... 'deplores' Israel's continuing deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 648 (31 Jan 1990)[1] The Security Council extends the mandate of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon until July 31, 1990.

Resolution 672 (12 Oct 1990): " ... 'condemns' Israel for "violence against Palestinians" at the Haram al-Sharif/Temple Mount.

Resolution 673 (24 Oct 1990): " ... 'deplores' Israel's refusal to cooperate with the United Nations.

Resolution 681 (20 Dec 1990): " ... 'deplores' Israel's resumption of the deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 694 (24 May 1991): " ... 'deplores' Israel's deportation of Palestinians and calls on it to ensure their safe and immediate return.

Resolution 726 (06 Jan 1992): " ... 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of Palestinians.

Resolution 799 (18 Dec 1992): ". . . 'strongly condemns' Israel's deportation of 413 Palestinians and calls for their immediate return.

Resolution 904 (18 Mar 1994): Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.

Resolution 938 (28 Jul 1994): extends mandate of the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon until January 31, 1995.

Resolution 1701 (11 August 2006) called for the full cessation of hostilities between Israel and Hezbollah.

Resolution 1860 (9 January 2009) called for the full cessation of war between Israel and Hamas.*

Now above are some of the UN resolutions against israel, and can you tell me how many of them did they actually comply with. And this is the diplomatic pressure that you are talking about.

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## Contrarian

Asim Aquil said:


> This is what ANY nation should do. The only thing is our nation's leaders are sold off to these western powers perhaps even on their payrolls, so they never really uphold national pride or try to do the right thing like feed hungry and destitute people and prevent a genocide.



This is happening only because Turkey is spearheading this on Israel. Had it been Pakistan, Iran, etc any other country, it would have been fruitless. Turkey carries diplomatic as well as economic might- and they are forcing the rest of the world to condemn Israel.

They are also not dependent on NATO armies for their defence. They can handle it themselves.


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## KillBill

khalidali said:


> KB when you talk about Diplomatic Pressure let me divert your attention to the following;
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Now above are some of the UN resolutions against israel, and can you tell me how many of them did they actually comply with. And this is the diplomatic pressure that you are talking about.



Thanks Khalidali for pulling out all these details. 

Now we both agree that Israel has done something which rest of the world did not like ( or atleast showed that they dint like)

Now, if back in 1971 UN publicly condemned the act of Israel and still no one could do anything till 2010, why do you think Israel care a hoot about anyone. 

Let me be clear that I am not a blind Israel supporter nor I am against the people of Gaza in anyway. What I am saying is that a PM going personally to deliver some AID looks so inappropriate. If Turkey thinks it has the political and military might to take on Israel, which no other nation had the guts till now, dont you think they should think of long term solutions?

Will the PM come with each flotilla to Gaza? Or is he trying to provoke Israel for some misadventure?


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## Aslan

KillBill said:


> Thanks Khalidali for pulling out all these details.
> 
> Now we both agree that Israel has done something which rest of the world did not like ( or atleast showed that they dint like)
> 
> Now, if back in 1971 UN publicly condemned the act of Israel and still no one could do anything till 2010, why do you think Israel care a hoot about anyone.
> 
> Let me be clear that I am not a blind Israel supporter nor I am against the people of Gaza in anyway. What I am saying is that a PM going personally to deliver some AID looks so inappropriate. If Turkey thinks it has the political and military might to take on Israel, which no other nation had the guts till now, dont you think they should think of long term solutions?
> 
> Will the PM come with each flotilla to Gaza? Or is he trying to provoke Israel for some misadventure?



See the reason that the israelies dont give even an ear to the international community is that they have uncle sam on their side. They know that no matter what the american gov will come to their aid in a heart beat. I mean how many times have you seen a country literally destroying another countries warship and still that country dont even conduct an investigation. So the bottom line is that the americans will take care of the problems for the israelies. Now will Edgordan personally go to Gaza, I highly doubt it. Yet again the americans gov will come into the pic and try to sort out the mess. But is the Turkish PM wrong in creating all of this pressure on them no he is not. Will I support him to go to Gaza! yes I will. But is this the right time. No!
No, because the Turks have done a wonderful job thus far, and every one is on their side. So if they involve the military at this moment this will immediately shift the world opinion. And the media supporters of Zion are very capable of doing this. 
That said the only language that the israelies understand is the language of the sword, gun, or might what ever you want to call it. Many argue that they comprehensively beat the Arabs in almost all the wars. But there were many things that have played a role in their victory. The biggest one of them was the american assistance. And the one even bigger one than that was the disunity amongst arabs. The israelies realized that Egypt could become a problem that they couldnt handle after 73 and they didnt hesitate for a sec to shake their hand when it was on offer.

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## rameez ahmed

KillBill said:


> Will the PM come with each flotilla to Gaza? Or is he trying to provoke Israel for some misadventure?



someone have to take some action about this illegal blockade.. And this action have to be started by somebody in that region...

If turkey is helping Palestinians now then they have the right to help them.. PM will only come to stop that illegal blockade of Israel and they have no intention of war. turkey navy will not enter in Israeli waters.. If they enter in Israeli waters then Israel can say what ever they want.....

They will go from international waters to Gaza and Israelis should have issues with it.... Israel has no right to stop them wherever they go in the international waters ... 

Israel should not stop them in international waters UNLESS if they want to start war with Turkey .. and If Israel does then definitely it will have to face the consequences....

And once that illegal blockade is finished then there is no need of rulers to go with the aid ship.. Turkish PM is going to stop the illegal blockade of Israelis on Gaza and I support him in this step.....

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## KillBill

khalidali said:


> See the reason that the israelies dont give even an ear to the international community is that they have uncle sam on their side. They know that no matter what the american gov will come to their aid in a heart beat. I mean how many times have you seen a country literally destroying another countries warship and still that country dont even conduct an investigation. So the bottom line is that the americans will take care of the problems for the israelies. Now will Edgordan personally go to Gaza, I highly doubt it. Yet again the americans gov will come into the pic and try to sort out the mess. But is the Turkish PM wrong in creating all of this pressure on them no he is not. Will I support him to go to Gaza! yes I will. But is this the right time. No!
> No, because the Turks have done a wonderful job thus far, and every one is on their side. So if they involve the military at this moment this will immediately shift the world opinion. And the media supporters of Zion are very capable of doing this.
> That said the only language that the israelies understand is the language of the sword, gun, or might what ever you want to call it. Many argue that they comprehensively beat the Arabs in almost all the wars. But there were many things that have played a role in their victory. The biggest one of them was the american assistance. And the one even bigger one than that was the disunity amongst arabs. The israelies realized that Egypt could become a problem that they couldnt handle after 73 and they didnt hesitate for a sec to shake their hand when it was on offer.



Well, First thing you said was Israel dont care about the world opinion because of the Big Daddy, So why do you think the situation has changed any bit. US is still the lone superpower, and its still putting that umbrella over Israel. So, nothing has changed since 1971. Well Can the trip of PM, Turkey change a thing? May be not, But ,May be its the beginning of the change. 

About the PM going there, I highly doubt it. He would be already under tremendous back door pressure. I wont be surprised if the things change very soon and media will cover it intelligently.


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## KillBill

rameez ahmed said:


> And once that illegal blockade is finished then there is no need of rulers to go with the aid ship.. Turkish PM is going to stop the illegal blockade of Israelis on Gaza and I support him in this step.....




What if in remote case the PM actually floats in the flotilla and come to Gaza and Israel let the flotilla through. But then all the others are stopped? 

Israel is already allowing a certain amount of aid to go through after throughly checking the content. What if they keep doing it from the next trip onward. If nothing else, may be the scanning would be more severe and all the wrath will fall upon the poor people of Gaza. 

Thats what I am pointing out since beginning, if Turkey is so concerned, then it should look for long term solutions not a token gesture like sending PM with the supply.


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## Aslan

KillBill said:


> Well, First thing you said was Israel dont care about the world opinion because of the Big Daddy, So why do you think the situation has changed any bit. US is still the lone superpower, and its still putting that umbrella over Israel. So, nothing has changed since 1971. Well Can the trip of PM, Turkey change a thing? May be not, But ,May be its the beginning of the change.
> 
> About the PM going there, I highly doubt it. He would be already under tremendous back door pressure. I wont be surprised if the things change very soon and media will cover it intelligently.



Well that is exactly what I said when I wrote that even now the GOA will take care of the mess. Why do you think that they mellowed down the UN resolution. Precisely for the same reason, and also as we talk there definetly is back door pressure. But the one thing that had happened now is that the israelies have come very close to shooting themselves in the foot. And they cant afford to do that more often. As much as they would want to why do you think that so far we have not had an attack on Iran. For the very same reason that the US is too busy in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they cant afford to make more mess of things. 

Situation will surely start to change, the israelies have shown that they are volnureable. They are not something invisible like people use to think that they were back in the days. 

*
media will cover it intelligently*

The only intelligence they will show is their portraying the Flotilla guys as hardliners and terrorists. 

Also I had posted an article by Robert Fisk where he very nicely sums up the attitude of the media towards the whole incident. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...lat-hussain-taken-hostage-122.html#post911503


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## Aslan

KillBill said:


> What if in remote case the PM actually floats in the flotilla and come to Gaza and Israel let the flotilla through. But then all the others are stopped?
> 
> Israel is already allowing a certain amount of aid to go through after throughly checking the content. What if they keep doing it from the next trip onward. If nothing else, may be the scanning would be more severe and all the wrath will fall upon the poor people of Gaza.
> 
> Thats what I am pointing out since beginning, if Turkey is so concerned, then it should look for long term solutions not a token gesture like sending PM with the supply.



KB this the very recent report on the issues with humanitarian aid into GAZA and west bank.


SPECIAL FOCUS
May 2010

IMPEDING ASSISTANCE: CHALLENGES TO MEETING THE HUMANITARIAN NEEDS OF PALESTINIANS

This Special Focus draws attention to the range of measures currently impeding the humanitarian communitys ability to provide assistance to vulnerable Palestinians. The delivery of principled humanitarian assistance requires an operating environment that is conducive to the regular and continued deployment of staff and supplies, and managed in accordance with the principles of impartiality, neutrality and independence. In the occupied Palestinian territory, however, the humanitarian community is facing a number of obstacles to the movement of staff and goods and other restrictions impacting day-to-day operations that limit its ability to efficiently and effectively respond to existing needs.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
When the delivery of humanitarian access is restricted, lives are lost and misery prolonged needlessly.1
John Holmes, UN Under Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator

The delivery of principled humanitarian assistance requires an operating environment that is conducive to the regular and continued deployment of staff and supplies, and managed in accordance with the humanitarian principles of impartiality, neutrality and independence. In the occupied Palestinian territory (oPt), however, the humanitarian community is facing a number of obstacles to the movement of staff and goods and other restrictions impacting day-to-day operations that impede the provision of humanitarian aid to vulnerable Palestinians.

The current humanitarian operation in the oPt is one of the largest in the world; at the time of its launching in November 2009, the oPt Consolidated Appeal (CAP) for 2010 ranked fifth out of 12 appeals globally, in terms of requested assistance. Through the oPt CAP, UN agencies and international and national NGOs2 requested over US$ 660 million for 2010. This support is intended to help mitigate the worst impacts of on-going conflict on the most vulnerable Palestinians, who continue to face a human dignity crisis, characterized by the erosion of livelihoods and the continued denial of basic human rights; nearly 40 percent of the Palestinian population is food-insecure and unemployment levels in the West Bank and Gaza Strip remain high.3

The humanitarian operations outlined in the oPts CAP occur within the context of a prolonged Israeli military occupation in which policies to alter the status and character of the territory continue to be pursued contrary to international law. The situation in the Gaza Strip, in particular, presents severe impediments to humanitarian operations. Sweeping import restrictions imposed by Israel since June 2007 have either prevented the implementation of planned humanitarian projects or resulted in significant delays. For example, UNRWA reports that it has had 24 construction and infrastructure projects, totaling some US$ 109 million in donor funds, frozen as a result of the blockade. Among the affected projects are schools, health facilities, housing units, and sewage infrastructure. Additionally, the no contact policy of some donors, prohibiting contact with the Hamas authorities, continues to affect some humanitarian organizations, while Hamass requests for compliance with its administrative procedures from UN agencies and NGOs have intensified. This two-way tension is narrowing the operational independence of some organizations and, at times, restricts on-going humanitarian operations.

In the West Bank, humanitarian organizations face ongoing restrictions on movement and access. Policies include a permit regime required for staff from the West Bank to enter East Jerusalem, and continued access difficulties stemming from the deployment of hundreds of closure obstacles, among others. In particular, agencies mandated with service provision are limited in doing so in Area C, due to the restrictive planning regime applied by Israel and restrictions to obtaining building permits and difficulties accessing certain areas.

The humanitarian communitys primary concern with the measures outlined in this report is that they impede its ability to meet the needs of vulnerable Palestinians whose livelihoods have been reduced or destroyed by years of continued occupation, conflict and the denial of basic human rights.4 More than ever, immediate steps are required to reverse this trend.

A complete lifting of Israels blockade on the Gaza Strip and improved Palestinian access to land and resources in the West Bank and external markets are just a few examples of measures that could significantly improve Palestinian livelihoods through a reduction in unemployment and poverty. Israels modest relaxation in recent months of some import restrictions, which have allowed for the entry to Gaza of a number of much needed, previously-restricted items, including glass, wood, and aluminum, among others, have been welcome improvements.

In addition, all parties to the conflict must abide by their international legal obligations to ensure the smooth passage of humanitarian relief and personnel, and that the humanitarian community is able to carry out its work effectively and efficiently. Additionally, there is a need for donor countries to strongly advocate for an improvement in the humanitarian situation and respect for humanitarian operations in their bilateral relations with the authorities concerned. Another necessary step is that relevant donor countries and affected humanitarian organizations re-evaluate their position vis-à-vis the no contact policy, where humanitarian operations are concerned, as well as related funding restrictions. Finally, the humanitarian community needs financial support for initiatives designed to resolve or overcome access issues and other restrictions on humanitarian operations.

Impeding Assistance: Challenges to Meeting the Humanitarian Needs of Palestinians -- OCHA special focus (27 May 2010)


UNITED NATIONS OFFICE AT GENEVA
REGULAR PRESS BRIEFING BY THE INFORMATION SERVICE
4 June 2010

Situation in Gaza

Christiane Berthiaume of the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) said that the United Nations Children's Fund and its partners were working in extremely difficult conditions to provide help to the approximately 800,000 children in Gaza, which represented more than half of the population living in the Strip. Development gains in Gaza were being reversed due to the blockade.

Together with the UN Secretary-General, UNICEF calls for an immediate lifting of the closure, and full, unimpeded access for humanitarian supplies and personnel, said Ms. Berthiaume.

The current situation was particularly affecting the youngest ones. Children in need of specialized care outside of Gaza had to navigate severe access restrictions and ten had died between 2009 and January 2010 due to delays in accessing critical care.

According to a study by Save the Children, chronic malnutrition in children had doubled from 1.2 per cent in 2006 to 2.4 per cent in 2008, said Ms. Berthiaume. Also, no new schools have been built due to the lack of construction material and the vast majority of schools had to operate in double shift in order to accommodate the sheer number of students.

Students wishing to pursue their studies abroad were regularly barred from leaving Gaza. Learning achievements within Gaza were plummeting, said Ms. Berthiaume. This year, only 46 per cent of fourth graders had passed their mathematics exams and 50 per cent their Arab language exams.

Ms. Berthiaume said that water and wastewater services have been rendered unreliable due to the lack of essential material for repair and maintenance work. Only around 10 per cent of the water in Gazas aquifer was fit for human consumption. Every day between 50 to 80 million of litres of partially untreated sewage were released into the Mediterranean.

Further, there was no specific list of what was allowed to enter Gaza or not. United Nations Children's Fund items have taken prolonged period for clearance into Gaza, including water pumps that had now spent seventeen months in the Ashdod warehouse, said Ms. Berthiaume. Math and science teaching kits had been stuck at customs since January because they contained periscopes and compasses.

Blockade's impact on children in Gaza - UNICEF/UNOG press briefing (Excerpts) (4 June 2010)


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## Maj. Gel. Tariq khan

Repectivly bharti Stupid, Muslim didnt capture Jews land, before 1400 year there is no Islam, all arab are non muslim. All were Jews, Hindus, Christans, after the rise of Islam they mostly converted to Islam, all Muslim today were non-muslim before Islam, the Jews living in Plastine, were convert to Islam..


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## KillBill

khalidali said:


> Well that is exactly what I said when I wrote that even now the GOA will take care of the mess. Why do you think that they mellowed down the UN resolution. Precisely for the same reason, and also as we talk there definetly is back door pressure. But the one thing that had happened now is that the israelies have come very close to shooting themselves in the foot. And they cant afford to do that more often. As much as they would want to why do you think that so far we have not had an attack on Iran. For the very same reason that the US is too busy in Iraq and Afghanistan. And they cant afford to make more mess of things.
> 
> Situation will surely start to change, the israelies have shown that they are volnureable. They are not something invisible like people use to think that they were back in the days.
> 
> *
> media will cover it intelligently*
> 
> The only intelligence they will show is their portraying the Flotilla guys as hardliners and terrorists.
> 
> Also I had posted an article by Robert Fisk where he very nicely sums up the attitude of the media towards the whole incident.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...lat-hussain-taken-hostage-122.html#post911503



Look we both agreed on both the points. 

1. Israel still is not giving a hoot , due to big daddy. But about invincibility, why do you think anyone else will ever attack Israel? What is the solid reason for which turkey will ever go to war with Israel? Any war will hamper their economic progress as well as they can kiss the seat in EU a goodbye. Dont tell me they will just fight with Israel for the people in Gaza. I seriously wont believe that. They must have a good enough reason to fight anyone.

2. Thats again what I said, Media has a huge power. If they can constantly portray Turkey as the villain then its the end game for them. Which I think will be another reason why Turkey wont like any misadventure to happen.


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## JAMESHAWK85

its stupid think i ever heared israel is one of powerful country so that's why till now they survive .they have high tech weapon,his strongest ally is america not even turkey strike on it. this is true.


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## Aslan

KillBill said:


> Look we both agreed on both the points.
> 
> 1. Israel still is not giving a hoot , due to big daddy. But about invincibility, why do you think anyone else will ever attack Israel? What is the solid reason for which turkey will ever go to war with Israel? Any war will hamper their economic progress as well as they can kiss the seat in EU a goodbye. Dont tell me they will just fight with Israel for the people in Gaza. I seriously wont believe that. They must have a good enough reason to fight anyone.
> 
> 2. Thats again what I said, Media has a huge power. If they can constantly portray Turkey as the villain then its the end game for them. Which I think will be another reason why Turkey wont like any misadventure to happen.



I had made a point some where earlier and my personal believe is that Edgordan needs to work on his popularity and he can become the front man of the movement. The problem with all of OIC with not being able to stop israel is the disunity, and if a man can take them forward is this man the Turkish PM.

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## sraja

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> There is neither Israel nor Palestine state in the World before WWII.



Jews lived in present day Israel and Israel as a national existed long before your Qing, Ming, Jin dynasties existed. 

I can't blame you for not knowing history. You know only the limit allowed by your communist party.



Meengla said:


> I don't know enough about what China is doing in Tibet or Sinkiang to comment on that.



May be you don't want to know so as to not offend your chinese brother in arms ?

Ugur muslims can get arrested even for carrying Quran or going to Mosque in XinXiang. Once Majority in XinXiang, Ugur muslims are now getting outnumbered by Mass-Migration of Han Chinese by Systematic state policy of Communist Party of China. That is far worst than Palestinian situation. Same is happening in Tibet.

It is amazing how Muslim countries keep their head in Sand when it comes to China. They angrily talk against West, but they go silent when it comes to China.

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## Sino-PakFriendship

sraja said:


> Jews lived in present day Israel and Israel as a national existed long before your Qing, Ming, Jin dynasties existed.
> 
> I can't blame you for not knowing history. You know only the limit allowed by your communist party.
> 
> 
> 
> May be you don't want to know so as to not offend your chinese brother in arms ?
> 
> Ugur muslims can get arrested even for carrying Quran or going to Mosque in XinXiang. Once Majority in XinXiang, Ugur muslims are now getting outnumbered by Mass-Migration of Han Chinese by Systematic state policy of Communist Party of China. That is far worst than Palestinian situation. Same is happening in Tibet.
> 
> It is amazing how Muslim countries keep their head in Sand when it comes to China. They angrily talk against West, but they go silent when it comes to China.





Yuan, Ming, Qing are Chinese history

But Palestine and Israel have been under Roman and Ottoman governing for a long time!


I ROC (Taiwan) side, even though some Taiwanese claim independence, but generally, Taiwanese have no different viewpoint from Mainlander, think that Tibet is legal part of China.

Why constitution of ROC (not PRC) claim Tibet is integral part of China! (This is not communist or non-communist problem, KMT also claim Tibet!)


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## Sino-PakFriendship

sraja said:


> Jews lived in present day Israel and Israel as a national existed long before your Qing, Ming, Jin dynasties existed.
> 
> I can't blame you for not knowing history. You know only the limit allowed by your communist party.
> 
> 
> 
> May be you don't want to know so as to not offend your chinese brother in arms ?
> 
> Ugur muslims can get arrested even for carrying Quran or going to Mosque in XinXiang. Once Majority in XinXiang, Ugur muslims are now getting outnumbered by Mass-Migration of Han Chinese by Systematic state policy of Communist Party of China. That is far worst than Palestinian situation. Same is happening in Tibet.
> 
> It is amazing how Muslim countries keep their head in Sand when it comes to China. They angrily talk against West, but they go silent when it comes to China.





Also, you Indian and Western Whites don't agree Tibet is part of China. Pakistani and World Muslim also don't agree Kashmir is part of India.

This is just a great game / political game among powers.

Power decides everything and truth!

We China is NOT 100-year-ago China.


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## monitor

salute to this brave man aftar a long time we are seeing some muslim leader 
talking bravly against the israel .but where the arab cowerds ?


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## Peregrine

*Qazi Hussain Ahmed has announced that he will also go to GAZA along with Turkish PM*


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## josephdracula

Tiger Prowling said:


> *Your knowlege of muslim history is at best pathetic. There were no treaties of muslim's with jew's that say, convert or be killed.*


*

good.
u say there were no treaties of muslims with jews that say convert or be killed.. then what else was there in those treaties...???
the point is not that ,uslims had any treaties with jews or not ,
the point is thousands and lacs of jews were massacared all over arabia and middle east by invading muslim armies.





Tiger Prowling said:



All they muslim,s wanted from these jew's is to remain nuetral in case the Quresh tribe attacks madina, but as in there blood they tried to play double game and paid the price.

Click to expand...


nobody attacked muslims first ever in the history.
its muslims who always initaited the wars , killed innocents.
ure saying jews paid the price...???
does paying the price means massacre all the men and the boys who have reached puberty and enslave and sell the women and children as vat muslims did with the Banu Qurayza? 
Does paying the price means raid cities without warning, kill all able men who have gone out for their daily business, 
enslave all the young women and rape them and take away their properties and put the elderly and sick to till the land and give to the invader HALF of the proceeds as muslims did with the Jews of Kheibar? 
Does paying the price means say sleep with women you capture in wars even if they are married as is instructed to Muslims to do in Quran 4:24 or as was done with Safiyah the Jewess of Bani Nadir whose father, husbad and many relatives were killed and Ryhanah the Jewess of Babu Qurayza?
no jew ever conspired against u muslims.
these conspirace theories are the hallmark of islam.
Assuming the lies of conspiracy theories about the Banu Quraiza were true, did all the
men in this tribe deserved death? Did that warrant such punishment?
Muhammad ordered the inspection of the genitals of boys to determine if they
had grown pubic hair and if they had, he counted them amongst men and
beheaded them. Is this justice? What was the guilt of the women and children
who became slaves?

In 1979, the Pakistani soldiers and the Pakistani president committed despicable
acts of barbarity in Bangladesh, massacring 3,000,000 unarmed civilians and
rapping 250,000 women (God knows how many more did not report out of
shame or were part of those killed after being raped). This is a real crime, not
like the bogus accusations made by Muhammad against the Banu Quraiza. What
do you think should be done to the entire Pakistani nation? Should every
Pakistani man be put to death and all their women and children taken as slaves?
This is what Muhammad did to the Banu Quraiza. It is unconscionable to defend
those acts. Everything Muhammad did was egregious. Any person who can&#8217;t
see the evilness of this massacre must have evil in his or her heart.





Tiger Prowling said:



Jew's were more killed and banished by christian than muslim's in history, go check early christian history.

Click to expand...


does this make the crimes of muslims any less horrendous..???
get back to ure senses.




Tiger Prowling said:



Jew's r like parasite's, they eat there host from inside untill its to late. (american's will know that very soon).

Click to expand...


according to me muslims are parasites.
whichever contry muslims go to , the end breaking that country into parts , look at india , look at chechenya , look at britain , look at thailand , look at phillipines.




Tiger Prowling said:



Just imagine no planted Israel in ME, will there be any conflict between Muslim's and chirstian.

Click to expand...



just imagine no islam in world , will there be any conflict in the whole world..??
95 &#37; of the conflicts and bloodshed will automatically be resolved , if islam dissappeared.





Tiger Prowling said:



Jew's know that there survival depends upon Muslim/Chirstian confilit, otherwise they will be in deep trouble coz of there double's face nature.

Click to expand...


jews know muslims wont let them survive untill they fight back n give them dose of thier own medicine.





Tiger Prowling said:



Jesus christ was crucified coz of jewish informer.

Click to expand...

*


Tiger Prowling said:


>



so..??
does this automatically mean muslims are angels..???


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## rameez ahmed

Peregrine said:


> *Qazi Hussain Ahmed has announced that he will also go to GAZA along with Turkish PM*



Any source reference........................


----------



## bc040400065

*Turkey hosts Eurasian summit amid Israel storm*

Sun Jun 6, 2010 6:23am EDT

(Reuters) - *Turkey, seething with anger after an Israeli raid on an aid ship bound for Gaza, hosts leaders from Russia, Iran, the Arab world and beyond this week for a Eurasian security summit that may further isolate Israel.*

The guest list for the meeting in Istanbul of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia (CICA), reads like a "who's who" of leaders from world hot spots, with participants from the Middle East, South Asia and the Korean Peninsula.

Israel is one of 20 members of the forum, but has decided to send a diplomat from its consulate, an Israeli embassy official said on Sunday, rather than expose a more senior figure to the fury generated by the killing of nine Turkish pro-Palestinian activists in the Israeli commando operation last Monday.

*Turkey is expected to try to raise pressure on Israel to end the four-year old blockade of 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza during a conference on Monday which precedes Tuesday's full summit.*

The diplomatic momentum will continue on Wednesday, as Arab League foreign ministers gather in Istanbul for the Turkish-Arab Cooperation Forum.

*Turkey, NATO's only Muslim member, has sought to raise its international profile in recent years. Positioned next to countries along the Gulf and Caspian Sea, where most of the world's oil and gas is found, Turkey holds geostrategic value in a conflict-prone region.*
It wants to join the European Union and become a major regional power, shedding the straitjacket of its Cold War era role as ally of the West.

Critics caution that Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan's Islamist-leaning government risks tilting too far in trying to forge stronger ties with Middle East governments the West does not trust.

*EIGHT PRESIDENTS*

While CICA aspires to ideals of collective security to minimize threats of conflict within its region there are several hard core enemies of Israel among its diverse membership.

Iran's Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas are among eight presidents participating in the Eurasian summit. President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, though not a member, is attending as a guest.

Plenty of discussion is expected to focus on Israel and the blockade it says is necessary to prevent weapons from falling into the hands of Hamas militants in Gaza. But other topics, including Afghanistan, will also be debated.

*"Afghanistan and Gaza are equally test cases for us," Turkish Foreign Ministry Deputy Undersecretary Unal Cevikoz told a news conference on Saturday.*

Afghan President Hamid Karzai is to meet Pakistan's Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi before the summit in a trilateral spearheaded by Turkey to build confidence between two deeply suspicious neighbors who are both fighting Taliban militants.

Cevikoz said he did not expect the meeting to focus much on Iran's nuclear program, despite momentum for a new sanctions resolution against the Islamic Republic in the U.N. Security Council.

Turkey, with Brazil's help, brokered an accord with Iran last month for a nuclear fuel swap, in the hope of heading off sanctions against a fellow Muslim neighbor, major trading partner and key supplier of gas.

There will be an inevitable focus on any exchanges between Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Ahmadinejad, after the Iranian leader sharply criticized the Kremlin for supporting a draft sanctions resolution.

China will be represented at the Istanbul summit by State Councillor Dai Bingguo, a high-ranking foreign policy official, while India is sending a trade minister.

CICA was first established in the early 1990s by Kazakhstan President Nursultan Nazarbayev, whose country hosted the only two previous summits, the last one four years ago.



Turkey hosts Eurasian summit amid Israel storm | Reuters


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## Awesome

Peregrine said:


> *Qazi Hussain Ahmed has announced that he will also go to GAZA along with Turkish PM*


Edrogan jaye, na jaye, saada Qazi pohnch jayega.

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Qazi araha hai".

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## psychedelic_renegade

Looks to me more of a political stunt, is he gonna escort every single flotilla sailing to Gaza? I think it will further escalate the situation, and in the end people of Gaza gonna suffer.


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## Peregrine

rameez ahmed said:


> Any source reference........................


Hi
it was a head line on ARY One World


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## Peregrine

psychedelic_renegade said:


> and in the end people of Gaza gonna suffer.


Hi
like they aren't suffering already? it's about time that some one stood up against Israelis

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## Awesome

Ikhwanweb :: The Muslim Brotherhood Official English Website

Erdogan plans breaking Gaza siege

You know the Israeli media is completely resorting to yellow journalism. For internal consumption they are calling the flotilla a protest ship and that Erdogan is coming with more protest ships.


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## psychedelic_renegade

Peregrine said:


> Hi
> like they aren't suffering already? it's about time that some one stood up against Israelis



Yes they are suffering, but how this event gonna change anything?


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## Awesome

psychedelic_renegade said:


> Yes they are suffering, but how this event gonna change anything?


There is a tipping point to everything. Once Israel's blockade of aid is breached, there will be no stopping it

Check this out, more aid makes its way to Gaza






You need a lot of inspiration to defy tyranny and violence that the Israelis are subjugating the Palestinians with. There is no excuse to deny food and clothing to Palestinians.

Palestinians will die either way, either fighting or by starving to death.

By all international norms a blockade is an act of war. So if the Turkish PM is blocked again Israel will be the one committing the act of war. The Turkish PM just wants to ensure there is a steady supply of aid with food, clothing and medicine that reaches Gaza.

Its as peaceful an act as it can get. Giving food to the needy!

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## GUNNER

TEHRAN, June 6, 2010 (AFP) - Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to escort aid flotillas to Gaza if the country's supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei orders this, a Khamenei aide said on Sunday.
"The Revolutionary Guards' naval forces are fully prepared to escort freedom and peace flotillas carrying humanitarian aid from all over the world to the oppressed people of Gaza," Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's naval representative, told the Mehr news agency.
"If the respected leader of the revolution (Khamenei) gives an order in this regard to the Revolutionary Guards' naval forces, it will take a practical step using its capability and equipment to escort flotillas to Gaza," he said.


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## Spring Onion

Asim Aquil said:


> Ikhwanweb :: The Muslim Brotherhood Official English Website
> 
> Erdogan plans breaking Gaza siege
> 
> You know the Israeli media is completely resorting to yellow journalism. For internal consumption they are calling the flotilla a protest ship and that Erdogan is coming with more protest ships.



 But Indians are bent upon proving Israelis innocent on the basis of Israeli propaganda


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## GUNNER

I read a statement by Mr Qazi Hussain Ahmed, flashed by a television channel, that he will accompany the Turkish PM in Gaza aid mission.


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## Spring Onion

monitor said:


> salute to this brave man aftar a long time we are seeing some muslim leader
> talking bravly against the israel .but where the arab cowerds ?



As i said before too Turks are nice and brave people unlike Saudis

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## Indiarox

Jana said:


> But Indians are bent upon proving Israelis innocent on the basis of Israeli propaganda


not all Indians jana


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## Awesome

Rumors are that Israel is backing off and will be allowing Erdogan's ship to pass through...


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## psychedelic_renegade

Asim Aquil said:


> There is a tipping point to everything. Once Israel's blockade of aid is breached, there will be no stopping it
> 
> Check this out, more aid makes its way to Gaza
> 
> YouTube - Egypt fails to block Gaza tunnels
> 
> You need a lot of inspiration to defy tyranny and violence that the Israelis are subjugating the Palestinians with. There is no excuse to deny food and clothing to Palestinians.
> 
> Palestinians will die either way, either fighting or by starving to death.
> 
> By all international norms a blockade is an act of war. So if the Turkish PM is blocked again Israel will be the one committing the act of war. The Turkish PM just wants to ensure there is a steady supply of aid with food, clothing and medicine that reaches Gaza.
> 
> Its as peaceful an act as it can get. Giving food to the needy!



I don't think Israelis are fool enough to attack Turk PM boat, they will let him pass. But by any means it won't ensure steady supply of aids to Gaza. Turk PM should do whats really needed that is to bargain uncle and rest of Nato members to his and palestine's side if he really cares for Gaza. I'm really sorry but I see nothing but stunt in this, he will prove himself hero to turk people but then what?


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## Aslan

psychedelic_renegade said:


> I don't think Israelis are fool enough to attack Turk PM boat, they will let him pass. But by any means it won't ensure steady supply of aids to Gaza. Turk PM should do whats really needed that is to bargain uncle and rest of Nato members to his and palestine's side if he really cares for Gaza. I'm really sorry but I see nothing but stunt in this, he will prove himself hero to turk people but then what?



Dude the whole point of the blockade is to prove to the world that oh we can do what every we want to! And that attitude has to be shattered.


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## ARCHON

*Israel will reject int'l panel to study raid*

Israel will reject int'l panel to study raid | Reuters


Israel's ambassador to the United States Michael Oren speaks to Reuters TV during an interview in Washington, February 24, 2010.





WASHINGTON (Reuters)- Israel's ambassador to the United States said on Sunday I*srael will reject the idea of an international commission to study its commando raid on a Gaza-bound aid ship in which nine pro-Palestinian activists were killed.*

WORLD

"We are rejecting an international commission. We are discussing with the Obama administration a way in which our inquiry will take place," Ambassador Michael Oren said on "Fox News Sunday."

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has proposed a multinational investigation of the raid, an Israeli official said earlier Sunday.

Ban has suggested establishing a panel that would be headed by former New Zealand prime minister Geoffrey Palmer and include representatives from Israel, the United States and Turkey, under whose flag the ship sailed, said the official from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's office.

Netanyahu discussed the proposal with Ban on Saturday and planned to convene senior cabinet ministers on Sunday to decide whether Israel would take part, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

But Oren told Fox: "Israel is a democratic nation. Israel has the ability and the right to investigate itself, not to be investigated by any international board."

Israeli leaders have spoken publicly about having foreign observers for an Israeli investigation into the interception of the Turkish-flagged Mavi Marmara last Monday.

Ban also discussed with Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erodogan "options for moving forward with the investigation called for by the Security Council," the United Nations said on its website, referring to the council's call for an impartial inquiry.

Israel's navy boarded another ship carrying aid to Gaza on Saturday. Its interception of the MV Rachel Corrie ended without violence following diplomatic efforts to avoid bloodshed.


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## psychedelic_renegade

khalidali said:


> Dude the whole point of the blockade is to prove to the world that oh we can do what every we want to! And that attitude has to be shattered.



And that would do nothing for Gaza, if your objective is to shatter Israels ego, then go ahead.


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## ARCHON

*Qatar to bear the cost of taking Israel to ICJ*


Putting its weight behind the decision of fellow Arab states to take Israel to the ICJ for its botched aid fleet raid that killed nine activists, Qatar has said it would meet all the expenses to be incurred on the legal proceedings.
Qatar has also said it would fund a worldwide media campaign to expose Israel, its blockade of the Gaza Strip and the aggression it has been perpetrating in the territory, a report in 'The Peninsula Daily' said.
According to the report, Secretary-General of the Arab League Amr Moussa said that Qatar's Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Sheikh Hamad bin Jassem bin Jabor Al Thani, has assured the League of the country's moral and financial support on the above issues.
At Qatar's behest the foreign ministers of Arab League member countries met in Cairo on Wednesday and Thursday to discuss the Israeli raid and its Gaza blockade.
"We heartily appreciate Qatar's commitment to meeting the expenses of taking Israel to court for the crime (the flotilla attack) and launching a global media campaign to expose the Israeli blockade of and aggression in Gaza," Moussa was quoted as saying by the paper.
Qatar is known for its humanitarian role in supporting the cause of the people of Gaza, the Arab League Secretary-General said.
"The Arab foreign ministers meeting focussed on ways to respond to the flotilla raid by Tel Aviv and its continued blockade of Gaza, its aggression in the Strip, and on how to remove the blockade", Moussa said.
The aim of the campaign would be to expose Israeli blockade and aggression.
The foreign ministers of Arab League (a regional organisation of Arab states in North and Northeast Africa and Southwest Asia) countries have decided in the Cairo meeting to eventually break the Israeli blockade of Gaza through various means.


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## ARCHON

*Iran's navy offers to escort Gaza ships*
Official: Elite Revolutionary Guards are prepared to intervene


updated 9:15 a.m. ET June 6, 2010
TEHRAN - Iran's elite Revolutionary Guards are ready to provide a military escort to cargo ships trying to break Israel's blockade of Gaza, a representative of Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei said on Sunday.

"Iran's Revolutionary Guards naval forces are fully prepared to escort the peace and freedom convoys to Gaza with all their powers and capabilities," Ali Shirazi, Khamenei's representative inside the Revolutionary Guards, was quoted as saying by the semi-official Mehr news agency.

Any intervention by the Iranian military would be considered highly provocative by Israel which accuses Iran of supplying weapons to Hamas, the Islamist movement which rules Gaza.


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## Awesome

psychedelic_renegade said:


> I don't think Israelis are fool enough to attack Turk PM boat, they will let him pass. But by any means it won't ensure steady supply of aids to Gaza. Turk PM should do whats really needed that is to bargain uncle and rest of Nato members to his and palestine's side if he really cares for Gaza. I'm really sorry but I see nothing but stunt in this, he will prove himself hero to turk people but then what?


The I will lead the next boat to feed hungry and destitute people  Hopefully you'll follow afterwards.


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## ARCHON

*Venezuelas Chavez attacks Israel in speech*
June 6, 2010
CARACAS, Venezuela (JTA) -- Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez called Israel a "genocidal state" during nationally broadcast comments following violent clashes aboard a Gaza-bound flotilla.

Chavez called Israel a "cursed terrorist and murderous state" amid shouts of Long Live Palestine during a June 1 speech, the day after Israeli Navy commandos boarded a Gaza-bound ship and nine people were killed in the ensuing violence. He also accused Israel of supporting the local opposition against his government.

Israel is financing the Venezuelan opposition. There are even groups of Israeli terrorists, of the Mossad, who are after me trying to kill me, he said.

In response, the American Jewish Committee said in a news release last Friday that the Organization of American States should condemn the comments in the strongest possible terms.

These baseless accusations by President Chavez are downright dangerous and are used by him to bolster his own political standing, said AJC Executive Director David Harris.

In the same speech, Chavez sent his greetings and respect to the local Jewish community.

They know they have our affection and respect," he said, adding later that "I doubt very much that a Venezuelan Jew would support such an atrocity.

The local Jewish community has had a strained relationship with the government following a spate of attacks against Jewish houses of worship last year, including an assault against the citys main synagogue.

Other Latin American nations closely aligned with Chavez have come out strongly against the Jewish state. Ecuadors President Rafael Correa recalled his countrys ambassador from Tel Aviv, while Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega said he was suspending diplomatic relations between the two nations.

Venezuela ruptured its diplomatic ties with Israel last year following the war in Gaza.


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## ARCHON

*I think its time for US to intervene and relocate the state of Israel to Alaska or something, so that the rest of the world can live peacefully.*

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## psychedelic_renegade

Asim Aquil said:


> The I will lead the next boat to feed hungry and destitute people  Hopefully you'll follow afterwards.



Well good luck with that, dont forget to take someone heavy weight with you like pm or Nobel laureates.

On my part I'll keep paying 20% of my salary as tax from which GoI provides aids to Palestine. I'm too young to die a premature death. :s


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## KillBill

birdofprey said:


> *I think its time for US to intervene and relocate the state of Israel to Alaska or something, so that the rest of the world can live peacefully.*



I hope just the name of the state, not the people who call them Israeli too...


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## GUNNER

JERUSALEM, June 6, 2010 (AFP) - Israel's powerful inner forum of seven ministers was to meet behind closed doors on Sunday evening to seek ways to calm an international outcry over its deadly storming of a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.
Global calls for an independent enquiry with foreign observers will be weighed against Israel's reluctance to submit itself to any form of international tribunal.
The deaths of eight Turkish activists and a US-Turkish citizen in Monday's commando operation against the aid flotilla sparked outrage around the world, particularly in Turkey, a onetime close ally.
Israeli supporters of an enquiry will argue that Israel should submit for international scrutiny evidence it says proves the deadly clashes aboard the Turkish-owned aid ship Mavi Marmara were provoked by a hard core of activists spoiling for a fight.
"This group boarded separately in a different town, organised separately, equipped itself separately and went on deck under different procedures," Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on Sunday.
"The clear intent of this hostile group was to initiate a violent clash," he told reporters at the weekly cabinet meeting.
The United States has called for "a credible, impartial, and transparent investigation" into the commando operation. 
So has the United Nations, which is also pressing Israel to lift the Gaza blockade, imposed in 2006 after Gaza-based Hamas militants snatched Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit, who is still being held.
That is a demand which is not going to go away. More blockade-runners are expected to head for Gaza, increasing the pressure on Israel to find a diplomatically-acceptable way of dealing with them.
"We shall have to find a solution to lifting the blockade," Social Affairs Minister Isaac Hertzog, of the largely-dovish Labour party, told reporters."We can have discussions about this with friendly countries who may propose creative solutions for easing the situation in Gaza," he added.
One such proposal, emanating from Washington, according to Israeli media, is for an international naval presence which would inspect Gaza-bound vessels to verify that they are not carrying weapons or other contraband.Since 2005, when Israel unilaterally withdrew all its soldiers and settlers from the Gaza Strip, militants have fired thousands of rockets and mortar rounds across the border.
"We are not insensitive to international criticism," Hertzog said. "The question is how do we ensure our security."
There was fresh criticism of Israel on Saturday when its special forces boarded an Irish-owned vessel, the Rachel Corrie, after it ignored orders not to head for Gaza with a cargo of aid.
This time there was no resistance but the ship was forced to sail to an Israeli port where it was impounded. Its 19 passengers and crew were being deported on Sunday.
The views of ministers in Netanyahu's centre-right coalition government do not divide neatly along political lines.
"I see no place for an enquiry with non-Israeli participants," Science Minister Daniel Hershkowitz, of the conservative National Religious Party told reporters.
Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz, of Netanyahu's Likud party agreed, arguing that the best forum for conducting an enquiry would be within the parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defence Committee.
Defence Minister and Labour party chief Ehud Barak, is reported to be against an enquiry which would look into the military's actions.
But Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman, considered a super-hawk on most issues, supports an open investigation."We have nothing to hide," he told public radio on Thursday. "And if they want to include an international member of some sort in their committee, that's alright."
One cabinet minister, speaking to AFP on condition of anonymity on Sunday, said "there are many options which need to be discussed."


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## Aslan

psychedelic_renegade said:


> And that would do nothing for Gaza, if your objective is to shatter Israels ego, then go ahead.



That will make a world of a diff to Gaza, it is all about israels ego and 
sufferings in Gaza, something that you might never get.


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## GUNNER

birdofprey said:


> *I think its time for US to intervene and relocate the state of Israel to Alaska or something, so that the rest of the world can live peacefully.*



Good Idea !


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## Awesome

psychedelic_renegade said:


> Well good luck with that, dont forget to take someone heavy weight with you like pm or Nobel laureates.
> 
> On my part I'll keep paying 20% of my salary as tax from which GoI provides aids to Palestine. I'm too young to die a premature death. :s


She is not that old either. 






If she can stand in front of an armed soldier taking aim to save kids, we can go on a boat to feed the kids! I wish Turkey opens up the invite for all of us. I do not intend to inflict any violence on anyone, just want to ensure a steady stream of aid with food, clothing and medicine to reach the Palestinians.


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## psychedelic_renegade

> If she can stand in front of an armed soldier taking aim to save kids, we can go on a boat to feed the kids! I wish Turkey opens up the invite for all of us. I do not intend to inflict any violence on anyone, just want to ensure a steady stream of aid with food, clothing and medicine to reach the Palestinians.




I'm sorry if I'm sounding inhumane, but I really can't connect to Palestine to that extent to stand in front blazing guns. May be more native problems, I'd follow your suit.


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## GUNNER

Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will not ride in an aid flotilla bound for Gaza, the country's foreign minister told CNN Sunday.

"No. No. No, no, no, no. Prime Minister Erdogan doesn't have such an intention," Ahmet Davutoglu said in an interview, nearly a week after nine civilians were killed in an Israeli raid on a previous flotilla.

He stressed that the aid shipment was "absolutely" an effort of aid groups and not sponsored by the Turkish government.
"As the Turkish government, we didn't encourage them, but it was a civilian activity," he said.

But, Davutoglu said, Turkey was concerned about the use of force against its civilians.

"If there is a new attempt again within the framework of this civilian approach, we cannot say anything against them. But if another country attacks this civilian convoy and kills our citizens, of course, we have full right to ask why," he said.


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## Awesome

Thats a shame, source?


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## GUNNER

Asim Aquil said:


> Thats a shame, source?




It turned up on AFP, which is quoting CNN.

---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

I guess the Turks are having second thoughts..


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## Comet

GUNNER said:


> Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will not ride in an aid flotilla bound for Gaza, the country's foreign minister told CNN Sunday.
> 
> "No. No. No, no, no, no. Prime Minister Erdogan doesn't have such an intention," Ahmet Davutoglu said in an interview, nearly a week after nine civilians were killed in an Israeli raid on a previous flotilla.
> 
> He stressed that the aid shipment was "absolutely" an effort of aid groups and not sponsored by the Turkish government.
> "As the Turkish government, we didn't encourage them, but it was a civilian activity," he said.
> 
> But, Davutoglu said, Turkey was concerned about the use of force against its civilians.
> 
> "If there is a new attempt again within the framework of this civilian approach, we cannot say anything against them. But if another country attacks this civilian convoy and kills our citizens, of course, we have full right to ask why," he said.




and people were discussing possible war and weapons etc.

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## Marxist

GUNNER said:


> Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan will not ride in an aid flotilla bound for Gaza, the country's foreign minister told CNN Sunday.
> 
> "No. No. No, no, no, no. Prime Minister Erdogan doesn't have such an intention," Ahmet Davutoglu said in an interview, nearly a week after nine civilians were killed in an Israeli raid on a previous flotilla.
> 
> He stressed that the aid shipment was "absolutely" an effort of aid groups and not sponsored by the Turkish government.
> "As the Turkish government, we didn't encourage them, but it was a civilian activity," he said.
> 
> But, Davutoglu said, Turkey was concerned about the use of force against its civilians.
> 
> "If there is a new attempt again within the framework of this civilian approach, we cannot say anything against them. But if another country attacks this civilian convoy and kills our citizens, of course, we have full right to ask why," he said.



thats it...end of the dream Erdogan leading a flotilla to Gaza.


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## Marxist

*Turkish PM mulls over joining Gaza aid flotilla backed by Turkish Navy *

TURKISH Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan was considering sailing to the Gaza Strip as part of an aid flotilla backed by the Turkish Navy.

Lebanese newspaper al Mustaqbal quoted security sources as saying that Mr Erdogan was pondering the move in order to break the barrier imposed against Gaza by Israel.

It said that "as part of the open conflict between Turkey and Israel following the massacre against the 'freedom sail' to Gaza and the protest sparked in the world, Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan is considering going to Gaza himself in order to break the blockade imposed on the Strip."

The sources said Erdogan raised the option in discussions with associates.

The report added that the Turkish leader also told the U.S. that he planned to ask his navy to escort another aid flotilla - but officials in Washington asked him to delay the plan in order to look into the matter.

The move followed strong criticism of Israel by Erdogan after Israeli armed forces killed several people on board an aid flotilla Monday, sparking widespread international condemnation.

When the possibility of Erdogan joining a flotilla was posed to Mark Regev, the spokesman for the Israeli prime minister, he said such a move was not a "realistic scenario" and dismissed it outright.

"Some of these reports must be taken with a grain of salt ... I am not sure that is a realistic scenario," he told Sky News.

"I prefer that we sort these things out peacefully. Nobody wants any saber-rattling. It does not do any good," said Regev.

Turkish PM mulls over joining Gaza aid flotilla backed by Turkish Navy | News.com.au


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## GUNNER

The original story of Turkish PM sailing to Gaza with aid convoy and navy never had any authenticity to begin with. There were no official quotes. Such stories are often floated in times as these. It could also have been a pressure building tactic against Israel.

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## psychedelic_renegade

Well Turkey had to stop the rhetorics at some point, else it would have gone out of their hands. If anyone expected Turks will wage war on Israel he was living in fools dream. I mean come on, they never gave two hoots about Gaza before. This new found love can be only explained by Erdogan's commitment to internal politics. I think the only reason Turk would want to involve in Gaja conflict if they want to make themselves more credible to Arab world, but historically they are more aligned to Europe, even if Erdogan has some other plan in his mind, Turks armed forces will never allow it to happen. 

Nothing to undermine Palestinians plight, but all these incidents dont make much sense.


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## KillBill

So it now happened as I was telling before. back door pressure and no PMs on any flotillas.


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## Ahmad

Turkey going to war with Israel neither makes sense nor it benefits the supresd palesitnians. it will never be good for turkey as well. they are doing great by keeping pressure deplomatically, that will give alot more positive result than the war.

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## Sunny4pak

I think Pakistan should join turkish PM...........along with some NSSG...??

regards,


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## psychedelic_renegade

Ahmad said:


> Turkey going to war with Israel neither makes sense nor it benefits the supresd palesitnians. it will never be good for turkey as well. they are doing great by keeping pressure deplomatically, that will give alot more positive result than the war.



Exactly! only way turks can help palesitnians is if they can pressurize uncle sam. Uncle holds the key to middle-easts peace.

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## Awesome

Turkey is not going to war, its just going to feed Palestinians.


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## Comet

Asim Aquil said:


> Turkey is not going to war, its just going to feed Palestinians.



An Armed intervention seems must because feeding the people of Gaza looks a job too difficult for simple Humanitarian workers. (We already saw what happened with the freedom flotilla)


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## KillBill

umairp said:


> An Armed intervention seems must because feeding the people of Gaza looks a job too difficult for simple Humanitarian workers. (We already saw what happened with the freedom flotilla)



Well as per Israeli official sources, they are letting through a certain amount of food and basic necessity items. They are scanning all the incoming aid to check whether some arms has been smuggled through for Hamas, which they wont like for obvious reasons. 

Aid has been going through and will keep going through to Gaza. If the cursed flotilla commander would have agreed to cooperate the Israeli commandos then these ill fate would not have happened. 

I am strictly against any armed conflicts in that region as that would do people of Gaza more harm. 

Again, please pardon my ignorance, but is it common to have a couple of journalists on board in each aid ship? Or is it that they wanted to showcase this incident by having some?


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## Awesome

KillBill said:


> Well as per Israeli official sources, they are letting through a certain amount of food and basic necessity items. They are scanning all the incoming aid to check whether some arms has been smuggled through for Hamas, which they wont like for obvious reasons.
> 
> Aid has been going through and will keep going through to Gaza. If the cursed flotilla commander would have agreed to cooperate the Israeli commandos then these ill fate would not have happened.
> 
> I am strictly against any armed conflicts in that region as that would do people of Gaza more harm.
> 
> Again, please pardon my ignorance, but is it common to have a couple of journalists on board in each aid ship? Or is it that they wanted to showcase this incident by having some?


Whats wrong in showcasing a good deed? I mean pro-Israelis complain why they are getting caught committing human rights abuses.

The cameras prevent them from going too. 

There is a constant attempt by the pro-Israeli gang to cheapen the efforts of the people to feed and cloth Palestinians.

It wreaks of propaganda.


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## KillBill

Asim Aquil said:


> Whats wrong in showcasing a good deed? I mean pro-Israelis complain why they are getting caught committing human rights abuses.
> 
> The cameras prevent them from going too.
> 
> There is a constant attempt by the pro-Israeli gang to cheapen the efforts of the people to feed and cloth Palestinians.
> 
> It wreaks of propaganda.



There is nothing wrong in showcasing anything. I was just curious to know whether its a common practice. Whether there are journalists aboard in each aid ship.

BTW, I am not a pro Israeli or pro Palestinian, I am just seeing the incidents from a complete neutral and independent views.


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## Comet

KillBill said:


> Well as per Israeli official sources, they are letting through a certain amount of food and basic necessity items. They are scanning all the incoming aid to check whether some arms has been smuggled through for Hamas, which they wont like for obvious reasons.
> 
> Aid has been going through and will keep going through to Gaza. If the cursed flotilla commander would have agreed to cooperate the Israeli commandos then these ill fate would not have happened.
> 
> I am strictly against any armed conflicts in that region as that would do people of Gaza more harm.
> 
> Again, please pardon my ignorance,* but is it common to have a couple of journalists on board in each aid ship?* Or is it that they wanted to showcase this incident by having some?



Please don't tell me that journalists are also used in making Rockets (like cement and sugar).


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## KillBill

umairp said:


> Please don't tell me that journalists are also used in making Rockets (like cement and sugar).





Media has a lot of power 

Those journalists can definitely create some storm in the tea cups . Looking from a Israeli point of view, they would hate the world media to have access to Gaza. 

I think, everyone is misunderstanding me.

My question was

"Is it common that a few journalists go in each aid ship or that its an exception and that might be the reason Israel tried to stop it so badly"


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## GUNNER

KillBill said:


> My question was
> 
> "Is it common that a few journalists go in each aid ship or that its an exception and that might be the reason Israel tried to stop it so badly"




Journalists go where there is a story. Israel's statements that it won't allow the convoy to pass and the insistence of the aid convoy organisers to do so meant there was going to be a big story. This is exactly what happened.


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## turkaholic

Some Pro-Israeli posters think it all makes sense that Israel finds it necessary to bring all the aid into Israel first, check them and send them into Palestine without Wheelchairs (has metal in them) and Cement so that Palestinians can't rebuild. 

So, I am asking you now. Would you like it if all of your needs such as food, clothing etc... to be checked and delivered by your enemy? How does Israel guarantee that they are delivering everything that they have received into Gaza? OF course they are not delivering everything. Why would they want their enemies to be healthy, well fed, and all? Today, Palestinians have access to only 1/4 of food that they used to before the blockade started. Oh, that must be nice. You Indians and Americans can come here and talk all of your BS, but in reality no one is monitoring what comes into your country, so you have no friggin idea what those people are going through. So just STFU!!!

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## GUNNER

Israel Cancels Drone Shipment For Turkey

Israel cancelled a second shipment of ariel drones to Turkey meant to be part of a $180 million military contract, an Israeli Cabinet Minister said on Monday (June 7).

Israeli Minister of Industry, Trade and Labor, Benjamin Ben-Eliezer, speaking to Reuters after an economic seminar, said that major projects such as the continuing sale of ten ariel drones were on hold, in light of the deteriorating diplomatic climate between Israel and Turkey after the Jewish state intercepted a Turkish-backed aid convoy bound for Gaza, killing nine people.

"Well, we have to be realistic. I certainly believe that both big projects, I cannot see them continue right now in the near future. But again, I am a great believer that one day will come and relations will get back, then we will renew the dreams and the projects," Ben-Eliezer said.

The Heron TP Unmanned Ariel Vehicle (UAV), developed by Israel Aerospace Industries, is a large drone capable of a variety of different tactical and strategic roles, from surveillance to target acquisition.
Israel has delivered six out of the ten UAVs purchased by Turkey, however the last four will remain undelivered for the foreseeable future.
Turkey's defence minister, Vecdi Gonul, said last week that the ongoing diplomatic crisis with Israel would not affect the planned delivery of the Israel-made drones to Turkey.


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## GUNNER

JERUSALEM, June 7, 2010 (AFP) - Israel's government on Monday easily defeated three parliamentary no-confidence motions over the deadly raid a week ago on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.
The first motion was brought by the main opposition party Kadima, while the other two were brought by Arab parties opposed to Israel's Gaza blockade.
Kadima's motion was defeated by a vote of 59 to 25, while the other motions both went down by 81 to 8.
Opposition leader Tzipi Livni accused the government of failing to take full responsibility for the botched navy raid in which nine Turkish activists were killed.
She also criticised the government for contributing to Israel's growing isolation. "A PR campaign does not replace clear diplomatic policy," she said.
Defence Minister Ehud Barak conceded that the violence on the ship "was not the result we wanted" but insisted that Israel needed to take extraordinary measures to protect itself.
"This is not Canada and not Finland," he said, noting the threats Israel faced from Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and from Iran.
Barak also defended the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
"In Gaza, there are 1.5 million people. Only one of them is truly in need of humanitarian assistance," he said, referring to captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.Israel insists it must stop vessels from travelling to Gaza since they could be carrying weapons for Hamas -- an Islamist movement committed to the destruction of Israel.
The impoverished Gaza Strip has been under a crippling blockade since militants based in the enclave captured Shalit in a deadly cross-border raid in 2006.
Israel tightened its grip after the Hamas movement seized control of Gaza the following year.


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## T-Rex

GUNNER said:


> JERUSALEM, June 7, 2010 (AFP) - Israel's government on Monday easily defeated three parliamentary no-confidence motions over the deadly raid a week ago on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.
> The first motion was brought by the main opposition party Kadima, while the other two were brought by Arab parties opposed to Israel's Gaza blockade.
> Kadima's motion was defeated by a vote of 59 to 25, while the other motions both went down by 81 to 8.
> Opposition leader Tzipi Livni accused the government of failing to take full responsibility for the botched navy raid in which nine Turkish activists were killed.
> She also criticised the government for contributing to Israel's growing isolation. "A PR campaign does not replace clear diplomatic policy," she said.
> Defence Minister Ehud Barak conceded that the violence on the ship "was not the result we wanted" but insisted that Israel needed to take extraordinary measures to protect itself.
> "This is not Canada and not Finland," he said, noting the threats Israel faced from Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in Lebanon and from Iran.
> Barak also defended the humanitarian situation in Gaza.
> "In Gaza, there are 1.5 million people. Only one of them is truly in need of humanitarian assistance," he said, referring to captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.Israel insists it must stop vessels from travelling to Gaza since they could be carrying weapons for Hamas -- an Islamist movement committed to the destruction of Israel.
> The impoverished Gaza Strip has been under a crippling blockade since militants based in the enclave captured Shalit in a deadly cross-border raid in 2006.
> Israel tightened its grip after the Hamas movement seized control of Gaza the following year.




Israelis are famous for being certified liars like bush and blair. *"In Gaza, there are 1.5 million people. Only one of them is truly in need of humanitarian assistance,"* this is quite appropriate statment for an Israeli politician.


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## pbrosam010

Not a very smart idea on Turkey's part. Israel will intercept the ships as they have stated. When people challenge others, they can expect nothing less than a fight. These pro- palestinian hate activists knew that they would be stopped. Still they came. You had a bunch of thugs from the IHH, linked to Hamas swinging clubs and chains prior to the commandos boarding the ship. The minute the commandos got on board, they were punched, kicked and beaten. One Israeli was stabbed in the stomach with a knife and a couple others shot with their own weapons, which were taken from them. These activists were anything but peaceful. This is not how civilized people act. You act like animals, you get treated like animals.

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## TaimiKhan

pbrosam010 said:


> Not a very smart idea on Turkey's part. Israel will intercept the ships as they have stated. When people challenge others, they can expect nothing less than a fight. These pro- palestinian hate activists knew that they would be stopped. Still they came. You had a bunch of thugs from the IHH, linked to Hamas swinging clubs and chains prior to the commandos boarding the ship. The minute the commandos got on board, they were punched, kicked and beaten. One Israeli was stabbed in the stomach with a knife and a couple others shot with their own weapons, which were taken from them. These activists were anything but peaceful. This is not how civilized people act. You act like animals, you get treated like animals.



Well strangely if the soldiers were shot with their own weapons, none of them had died, while they executed 9-10 of them point blank with the very same guns. 

Strange. 

Well Israelis are the animals, if they had been treated that way, they wouldn't had been only wounded. That shows the Israeli animals were treated humanly in a civilized manner. If they had gotten the same treatment then you would have seen the Israeli soldiers many of them dead and in their graves, which we did not. 

Enough evidence who is the animal and who are its supporters.


*On a side note: *

Well strangely we are seeing the effects of the Israeli and its supporters media propaganda drive on this very forum too. 

Members coming and posting things in support of Israel and its barbarism. 

Nice try, but it won't be helpful, as we know what the real truth is and what Israel is.


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## rameez ahmed

pbrosam010 said:


> Not a very smart idea on Turkey's part. Israel will intercept the ships as they have stated. When people challenge others, they can expect nothing less than a fight. These pro- palestinian hate activists knew that they would be stopped. Still they came. You had a bunch of thugs from the IHH, linked to Hamas swinging clubs and chains prior to the commandos boarding the ship. The minute the commandos got on board, they were punched, kicked and beaten. One Israeli was stabbed in the stomach with a knife and a couple others shot with their own weapons, which were taken from them. These activists were anything but peaceful. This is not how civilized people act. You act like animals, you get treated like animals.



Israeli terrorist attacked them at the place that don't come under their boundaries.... In this case they were like uninvited guest on that ship who deserve to be killed for that , but the activist only injured them because they were CIVILIZED ......

You should not say the terrorist state of Israel as The Civilized People.. They are terrorist and will have to pay heavily for that... Your Pro Israeli CNN and Fox news will always say that Israelis were attacked but they wouldn't tell you that Israelis terrorist army had no right of boarding that ship as it was international borders... 

If any country would have attacked the Israeli ship in this way then Israeli terrorist would have bombed that country and would have started crying that *"they have security threats"* despite the fact that Israel is the BIGGEST threat to the peace in the Middle East... 

the fact is that every Attack on Israeli soil is in response to the Atrocities Israeli does in Palestine....But The CNN and Fox News never says that ... 

Wake up from your dream because proving Israel's innocence is only a dream and will remain dream and will never come true because their terrorism can never be hidden....


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## mikkix

KillBill said:


> Media has a lot of power
> 
> Those journalists can definitely create some storm in the tea cups . Looking from a Israeli point of view, they would hate the world media to have access to Gaza.
> 
> I think, everyone is misunderstanding me.
> 
> My question was
> 
> "Is it common that a few journalists go in each aid ship or that its an exception and that might be the reason Israel tried to stop it so badly"



So israel is against freedom of speech by not entering journalists into Gaza and she doesn't liked that too,,,,
Whats ur point of view with that...


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## KillBill

mikkix said:


> So israel is against freedom of speech by not entering journalists into Gaza and she doesn't liked that too,,,,
> Whats ur point of view with that...



Freedom of speech?
Is that a basic right? I don't think so. 
Do you think all countries implement and provide freedom of speech? Do you think any govt will allow free press while its operating in a region? 

Same is the case here, just that the aggressor is Israel and thats it


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## T-Rex

pbrosam010 said:


> Not a very smart idea on Turkey's part. Israel will intercept the ships as they have stated. When people challenge others, they can expect nothing less than a fight. These pro- palestinian hate activists knew that they would be stopped. Still they came. You had a bunch of thugs from the IHH, linked to Hamas swinging clubs and chains prior to the commandos boarding the ship. The minute the commandos got on board, they were punched, kicked and beaten. One Israeli was stabbed in the stomach with a knife and a couple others shot with their own weapons, which were taken from them. These activists were anything but peaceful. This is not how civilized people act. You act like animals, you get treated like animals.




If animals like you try to get into a place that is not under your jurisdiction I think you should be reminded with a few sticks up your *** that you're trespassing!


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## bc040400065

*Israel allows some once-banned products into Gaza*
By DIAA HADID (AP)  38 minutes ago

JERUSALEM  *Israel has allowed some previously banned food items into the Gaza Strip, *officials said Wednesday, taking a small step toward easing its three-year-old blockade of the territory after worldwide criticism of last week's deadly raid on a Gaza-bound international flotilla.

The decision only narrowly expands the list of goods that can enter Gaza  and most of the newly permitted items are already being smuggled into the area from neighboring Egypt.

The move also does not include the most-sought items in Gaza, such as cement, steel and other materials needed to rebuild the war-devastated strip.

But it is the first tangible step by Israel to temper the uproar caused by the raid, which left nine pro-Palestinian activists dead after a clash with Israeli naval commandos on one of the flotilla's ships.

Palestinian liaison official Raed Fattouh, who coordinates the flow of goods into Gaza with Israel, said that soda, juice, jam, spices, shaving cream, potato chips, cookies and candy were now permitted. He said some products have already entered Gaza, and others would cross in the coming days.

The naval raid drew attention to the blockade, imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas militants violently seized power in Gaza in 2007.

The closure has devastated Gaza's already battered economy, erased tens of thousands of jobs and prevented the area from repairing damage after a fierce Israeli military offensive in Gaza early last year.

Wednesday's gesture was unlikely to blunt the international criticism since it doesn't lift the ban on materials needed to rebuild Gaza. Fattouh said Israeli officials rebuffed Palestinian requests for construction goods, raw materials for factories to operate and medical devices.

Israeli officials confirmed the decision to allow in the new foods.

They said the move was meant to defuse pressure for an international investigation of the raid. Another government official said they would continue to ease the blockade but offered no further details. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity pending a formal government announcement.

Much of the international criticism of Israel's blockade has centered on the ban on raw materials and some fuels from entering Gaza, and the arbitrary nature of some of the banned items. Israel had barred things like potato chips and cookies, while permitting gourmet items like diet yogurt and herbal tea.

Turkey has led the international criticism of Israel's policies in Gaza. The nine activists killed last week included eight Turks and a Turkish American.

Murat Mercan, head of the foreign relations committee in the Turkish parliament, said Israel's gesture was insufficient.

"Even if they lift the blockade on all food items, it would still not be satisfactory in any way," he said. "To live like humans, these people need food, medicine, construction material. The children need pens and notebooks."

"Although there is no reason to be hopeful given the past experience, we still try to be cautiously hopeful" about an eventual end to the blockade, he said.

The international uproar has also put pressure on Egypt to ease its closure of Gaza's southern border. Following the flotilla affair, Egypt opened the border to allow Gazans to exit the area. Thousands of people have been waiting to travel abroad for jobs, university study and medical care.

The Associated Press: Israel allows some once-banned products into Gaza


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## bc040400065

*Turkey pushes for condemnation of Israel *
Tuesday, 08 Jun, 2010 


ISTANBUL: Turkey sought a fresh condemnation of Israel over its deadly raid on Gaza-bound aid ships as regional leaders gathered in Istanbul Tuesday to discuss security in Asia.



Presidents Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran, Bashar al-Assad of Syria, Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan as well as Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas attended the gathering, expected to end with a joint declaration later Tuesday.



Speaking on the sidelines of the summit, Putin said Russia would raise at the United Nations the controversial issue of who should probe into last week's raid by Israeli forces on a flotilla carrying aid to the besieged Gaza Strip, which claimed nine lives.



We are deeply worried by such a crude violation of the universally recognized norms of international law, he told reporters, stressing the raid took place in international waters in the Mediterranean.



We can't allow a new flame to flare up in the Middle East... We will raise the issue at the United Nations, we're working at it, he said.



Despite strong regional backing, Turkey failed to secure a joint statement slamming Israel as the Jewish state was part of the summit of the Conference on Interaction and Confidence Building Measures in Asia (CICA), a Turkish diplomat said.



Israeli leaders shunned the event, but Israeli ambassador to Turkey Gabby Levy represented the Jewish state and was part of the talks on a joint declaration, whose adoption required consensus, the diplomat said.



We cannot expect the Israeli representative to condemn his own country, he said. However, Turkish President Abdullah Gul, acting as summit chairman, was expected to make a statement denouncing Israel on behalf of the majority of member states, he added.



Nine Turks were killed in the May 31 raid, which sparked global outrage and plunged Israel's already strained ties with Nato member Turkey, once a close ally, into deep crisis.



*The consequences of acts undertaken with feelings of hatred and vengeance are obvious. Unfortunately, we saw a merciless example of that recently,* Gul said at Tuesday's summit.



We must definitely say 'stop' to this tendency which is extremely worrying with respect to international peace and security, he said.



*Turkey said Monday that normalisation of ties with Israel would be out of the question if it failed to agree to an international probe into the bloodshed, a move the Jewish state has so far rejected.*


*Ankara has recalled its ambassador from Tel Aviv and scrapped joint military drills, saying economic and defence ties with Israel would be reduced to a minimum level.*



Tuesday's summit was to focus on issues such as nuclear disarmement, peaceful use of nuclear energy and confidence-building measures in Asia, the Turkish foreign ministry said.

DAWN.COM | World | Turkey pushes for condemnation of Israel


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## gambit

Turkey's Two-Faced Aid For Gaza - Forbes.com

From the fury with which Turkey's leaders are demanding carte blanche access for aid to Gaza, you might suppose the Turkish government had exhausted every available route for pouring its own bounty into the Palestinian enclave. Think again. While Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan whips up passions about Israel stopping a blockade-busting "aid" flotilla, his own government has racked up a record as one of the cheapskates of Gaza relief.

United Nations records show that if Gaza has been lean on aid from Turkey in recent years, it's not because Turkish relief donations have been blocked by the Israelis. It's because Turkey, relative to its size as a rising economic power, and despite its claims of regional leadership, has been surprisingly stingy about sending aid via the already existing channels of the UN. Apparently, Turkeys leaders are glad to enlist the U.N. full force for punishing Israel and stripping Israel's defenses against the Iranian-backed Hamas terrorists who control neighboring Gaza. But the Turks are far less interested in the U.N. when it comes to handing over Turkish goods and cash for U.N. aid efforts.

The chief U.N. agency in Gaza is the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, or UNRWA. Love or hate it--and I am no fan--UNRWA, according to its website, is "the main provider of basic services--education, health, relief and social services--to 4.7 million registered Palestine refugees in the Middle East." Many of those Palestinians live in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the West Bank. But Gaza is the core of this operation. UNRWAs headquarters are in Gaza, where 1.1 million Palestinians--the bulk of Gaza's population--are registered on UNRWA's refugee rolls and eligible for its services.

UNRWA gets 98% of its funding from voluntary donations, mostly from U.N. member states. Turkey looks like a great candidate to be a big donor. In 2008 Turkey's economy was ranked by the World Bank as the 17th largest on the planet. *Given the Turkish government's professed interest in the welfare of Palestinians, you might suppose that Turkey would be among the top 10 state donors to UNRWA? Or at least the top 20?

Turkey doesn't even make the cut.*

*The largest donor to UNRWA is the U.S., which in 2009, according to UNRWA's statistics, gave $268 million.* Next is the European Commission, which in 2009 gave $232.7 million. Together, the U.S. and E.U. account for almost half of all UNRWA funding. Other major donors include the U.K., Spain, Canada, Japan, Switzerland and Germany. Or, if you want to measure in terms of donations per capita, notes UNRWA on its website, "Scandinavian countries top the list," with Sweden in 2009 giving $48.6 million, Norway $39 million and Denmark $19.9 million.

Among UNRWA's top 20 donors for 2009, there are only two countries from the Middle East: Kuwait, which in 2009 gave $35.5 million, and Saudi Arabia, with $27.6 million.

And in 2009 UNRWA was clamoring even more than usual for donations. The year began with Israel sending troops into Gaza in Operation Cast Lead--an attempt to shut down the thousands of rocket and mortar attacks launched from the Hamas-terrorist-run enclave into Israel. The U.N. put out an emergency appeal for aid. Sympathy for Gaza ran high, and one of the most vocal figures was Turkey's Erdogan. That January, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, he made a public display of insulting Israel's President Shimon Peres and stormed off a shared stage.

*But how much did Turkey donate in 2009 to UNRWA? According to an UNRWA spokesman, Turkey ranked 26th on the list, below Belgium, Finland and Ireland.* With a Turkish gross domestic product well in excess of $700 billion, the Turkish government gave a total of $1.08 million to UNRWA, of which $578,058 was for the Gaza Emergency Appeal. Non-governmental organizations in Turkey provided another $318,413 worth of food and medical supplies.

This year, with Erdogan cheering for the Turkish-led terror-linked flotilla because it was "carrying aid to poor Palestinian people," how much have the Turks donated to UNRWA? According to the UNRWA spokesman, Turks have made "no private pledges," and for 2010 the Turkish government has so far pledged $500,000.

UNRWA statistics for the past decade show a similarly tight-fisted Turkey. Erdogan has been in power since 2002, but *on UNRWA's list of the top 20 donors spanning that period, Turkey doesn't show up.* In March 2009 U.N. Radio reported that Turkey's "steady" support for UNRWA from 2000-09 had stacked up to a total of $7.4 million. That's slightly less than Australia gave in 2009 alone. 

In the U.N.'s sprawling bureaucracy there are of course other U.N. agencies operating in Gaza. In the U.N.'s database for overall contributions in 2009 to what the U.N. describes as "Occupied Palestinian Territory," Turkey looks slightly more generous, with donations totaling $2.6 million. But slice it how you will, Turkey is one of the penny-pinchers at the U.N. aid table. That's not for lack of appetite at UNRWA, which complains of being under-funded, with $1.2 billion budgeted for 2009, and $948 million received.

As for the terror-linked Turkish foundation that took the helm of the Gaza flotilla, the IHH, it has been accredited at the U.N. since 2004 as an NGO with consultative status at the General Assembly's Economic and Social Council. According to a January 2009 bulletin on the IHH website, the IHH has sent millions worth of aid into Gaza, including "monetary aids" of $3,988,048 million. *Did the U.N.-accredited IHH donate any of this via UNRWA? Queried by e-mail about this, an UNRWA spokesman replied, "UNRWA has never received any monetary assistance from IHH."*

None of this is meant to endorse UNRWA's aid empire in Gaza, which has a record of being too often entwined with the terrorist reign of Hamas. That ought to make the U.S. think twice, but it should hardly deter donations from Turkey, where the current government applauds the IHH and refers to Hamas as "brothers." What's jarring is that the Turks in the name of aid should be so urgently demanding right now that the U.N. help them break down all barriers meant to keep weapons out of Gaza, while for so many years the same Turks have made so little use of the U.N. aid corridors already in place. But then, it's not really about milk and medicine for children, is it?


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## vishalgutsy

i think the muslims in sudan , somalia and bangladesh are living a much miserable life that those in palestine , if turkey really wanted to help muslims , they should have sent aids to somalia and sudan and not to palestine. its clear , it was just a publicity stunt.

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## SpArK

http://www.unrwa.org/userfiles/file/financial_updates/2009/Total_Contributions_to_UNRWA_2009_All_Donors.pdf


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## T-Rex

vishalgutsy said:


> i think the muslims in sudan , somalia and bangladesh are living a much miserable life that those in palestine , if turkey really wanted to help muslims , they should have sent aids to somalia and sudan and not to palestine. its clear , it was just a publicity stunt.



Your ability to measure misery is clearly stained by your prejudice against the Palestinians and your desire to please uncle sam or else you would have noticed that the great injustice against the Palestinians has been going on for half a century! When Bangladesh has a neighbour like India 'misery' is quite expected.


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## Indiarox

vishalgutsy said:


> i think the muslims in sudan , somalia and bangladesh are living a much miserable life that those in palestine , if turkey really wanted to help muslims , they should have sent aids to somalia and sudan and not to palestine. its clear , it was just a publicity stunt.


Do you have a personal grudge with the Palestinians


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## FreekiN

gambit said:


> Turkey's Two-Faced Aid For Gaza - Forbes.com
> 
> From the fury with which Turkey's leaders are demanding carte blanche access for aid to Gaza, you might suppose the Turkish government had exhausted every available route for pouring its own bounty into the Palestinian enclave. Think again. While Turkey's Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan whips up passions about Israel stopping a blockade-busting "aid" flotilla, his own government has racked up a record as one of the cheapskates of Gaza relief.
> 
> United Nations records show that if Gaza has been lean on aid from Turkey in recent years, it's not because Turkish relief donations have been blocked by the Israelis. It's because Turkey, relative to its size as a rising economic power, and despite its claims of regional leadership, has been surprisingly stingy about sending aid via the already existing channels of the UN. Apparently, Turkeys leaders are glad to enlist the U.N. full force for punishing Israel and stripping Israel's defenses against the Iranian-backed Hamas terrorists who control neighboring Gaza. But the Turks are far less interested in the U.N. when it comes to handing over Turkish goods and cash for U.N. aid efforts.
> 
> The chief U.N. agency in Gaza is the U.N. Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, or UNRWA. Love or hate it--and I am no fan--UNRWA, according to its website, is "the main provider of basic services--education, health, relief and social services--to 4.7 million registered Palestine refugees in the Middle East." Many of those Palestinians live in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and the West Bank. But Gaza is the core of this operation. UNRWAs headquarters are in Gaza, where 1.1 million Palestinians--the bulk of Gaza's population--are registered on UNRWA's refugee rolls and eligible for its services.
> 
> UNRWA gets 98% of its funding from voluntary donations, mostly from U.N. member states. Turkey looks like a great candidate to be a big donor. In 2008 Turkey's economy was ranked by the World Bank as the 17th largest on the planet. *Given the Turkish government's professed interest in the welfare of Palestinians, you might suppose that Turkey would be among the top 10 state donors to UNRWA? Or at least the top 20?
> 
> Turkey doesn't even make the cut.*
> 
> *The largest donor to UNRWA is the U.S., which in 2009, according to UNRWA's statistics, gave $268 million.* Next is the European Commission, which in 2009 gave $232.7 million. Together, the U.S. and E.U. account for almost half of all UNRWA funding. Other major donors include the U.K., Spain, Canada, Japan, Switzerland and Germany. Or, if you want to measure in terms of donations per capita, notes UNRWA on its website, "Scandinavian countries top the list," with Sweden in 2009 giving $48.6 million, Norway $39 million and Denmark $19.9 million.
> 
> Among UNRWA's top 20 donors for 2009, there are only two countries from the Middle East: Kuwait, which in 2009 gave $35.5 million, and Saudi Arabia, with $27.6 million.
> 
> And in 2009 UNRWA was clamoring even more than usual for donations. The year began with Israel sending troops into Gaza in Operation Cast Lead--an attempt to shut down the thousands of rocket and mortar attacks launched from the Hamas-terrorist-run enclave into Israel. The U.N. put out an emergency appeal for aid. Sympathy for Gaza ran high, and one of the most vocal figures was Turkey's Erdogan. That January, at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, he made a public display of insulting Israel's President Shimon Peres and stormed off a shared stage.
> 
> *But how much did Turkey donate in 2009 to UNRWA? According to an UNRWA spokesman, Turkey ranked 26th on the list, below Belgium, Finland and Ireland.* With a Turkish gross domestic product well in excess of $700 billion, the Turkish government gave a total of $1.08 million to UNRWA, of which $578,058 was for the Gaza Emergency Appeal. Non-governmental organizations in Turkey provided another $318,413 worth of food and medical supplies.
> 
> This year, with Erdogan cheering for the Turkish-led terror-linked flotilla because it was "carrying aid to poor Palestinian people," how much have the Turks donated to UNRWA? According to the UNRWA spokesman, Turks have made "no private pledges," and for 2010 the Turkish government has so far pledged $500,000.
> 
> UNRWA statistics for the past decade show a similarly tight-fisted Turkey. Erdogan has been in power since 2002, but *on UNRWA's list of the top 20 donors spanning that period, Turkey doesn't show up.* In March 2009 U.N. Radio reported that Turkey's "steady" support for UNRWA from 2000-09 had stacked up to a total of $7.4 million. That's slightly less than Australia gave in 2009 alone.
> 
> In the U.N.'s sprawling bureaucracy there are of course other U.N. agencies operating in Gaza. In the U.N.'s database for overall contributions in 2009 to what the U.N. describes as "Occupied Palestinian Territory," Turkey looks slightly more generous, with donations totaling $2.6 million. But slice it how you will, Turkey is one of the penny-pinchers at the U.N. aid table. That's not for lack of appetite at UNRWA, which complains of being under-funded, with $1.2 billion budgeted for 2009, and $948 million received.
> 
> As for the terror-linked Turkish foundation that took the helm of the Gaza flotilla, the IHH, it has been accredited at the U.N. since 2004 as an NGO with consultative status at the General Assembly's Economic and Social Council. According to a January 2009 bulletin on the IHH website, the IHH has sent millions worth of aid into Gaza, including "monetary aids" of $3,988,048 million. *Did the U.N.-accredited IHH donate any of this via UNRWA? Queried by e-mail about this, an UNRWA spokesman replied, "UNRWA has never received any monetary assistance from IHH."*
> 
> None of this is meant to endorse UNRWA's aid empire in Gaza, which has a record of being too often entwined with the terrorist reign of Hamas. That ought to make the U.S. think twice, but it should hardly deter donations from Turkey, where the current government applauds the IHH and refers to Hamas as "brothers." What's jarring is that the Turks in the name of aid should be so urgently demanding right now that the U.N. help them break down all barriers meant to keep weapons out of Gaza, while for so many years the same Turks have made so little use of the U.N. aid corridors already in place. But then, it's not really about milk and medicine for children, is it?



The flotilla's were not a state-funded project. It was a private group working on it's own and gathering volunteers, the state of Turkey had nothing to do with it. 

Turkey was brought in to this business because Turkish citizens were killed.


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## gambit

FreekiN said:


> The flotilla's were not a state-funded project. It was a private group working on it's own and gathering volunteers, the state of Turkey had nothing to do with it.
> 
> Turkey was brought in to this business because Turkish citizens were killed.


Then there is no need for Turkey to make bellicose statements against Israel and shaking diplomatic relations over a foolish decision by a Turkish citizen.


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## TrMhMt

gambit said:


> a foolish decision



You have thought like that when they have sink your battleship right? How many foolish soldier had died that time??

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## amigos

It was not only Turkey, but many peace loving people from many different countries who spoke for justice and freedom for the people in Gaza. The Israelis are trying to confuse the world. Its a pity that Israel can get away with such clear violation of human rights.


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## GUNNER

JERUSALEM, June 17, 2010 (AFP) - Israel approved on Thursday a plan to ease its blockade of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip following weeks of international pressure, but provided few details on what new goods would be allowed in.

The security cabinet's decision was a response to mounting calls to ease the four-year blockade of the impoverished Palestinian territory in the wake of a deadly May 31 raid on a flotilla of aid ships.

Under the plan, Israel would "liberalise the system by which civilian goods enter Gaza (and) expand the inflow of materials for civilian projects that are under international supervision," a brief government statement said.

Defence Minister Ehud Barak said Israel would maintain its naval blockade and inspect all goods entering by land.

"The intention is to ensure that more goods can enter, but always after an Israeli check, which will ensure that there is no weaponry, no arms and no materials which could be used for warfare," he said in a statement.

Hamas swiftly rejected the move, which senior leader Ismail Radwan dismissed as an attempt to "relieve the pressure" on Israel following the flotilla incident.

The Western-backed Palestinian Authority also rejected the move, with chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat calling it a "public relations ploy."

"President Mahmud Abbas demands the complete lifting of the siege on the Gaza Strip," he told AFP. "He believes there are no partial solutions."

The plan is reportedly based on understandings reached by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Middle East Quartet envoy Tony Blair that call for switching from a list of allowed items to a list of banned goods.

It would also allow the entry of more construction materials for UN projects to rebuild homes and infrastructure destroyed during the devastating 22-day Gaza war, launched by Israel in December 2008 to halt rocket attacks.

Blair called the decision an "important step" and said in the coming days he would discuss its details on behalf of the Quartet, which consists of the United States, the United Nations, the European Union and Russia.

"Israel has the clear right to defend itself and protect its security. The best way to do this is to ensure that weapons cannot reach Gaza whilst allowing into Gaza the items of ordinary daily life," he said.

Currently thousands of products -- some as banal as toilet paper and ginger -- are listed by Israel as constituting a "security" risk and prevented from reaching the territory's 1.5 million residents.

The list also includes construction materials, such as metal pipes and cement, which Israel fears could be used for building rockets and constructing underground bunkers and tunnels.

An Israeli group that has closely tracked the closures said it was unclear whether the new plan would allow the kind of regular commerce needed to revive the economy in Gaza, where 80 percent of residents rely on foreign aid.

"I am definitely underwhelmed. Our concern is that Gaza residents have a right not just to consume but to produce and to travel," Sari Bashi, the director of the Gisha Centre for Legal Aid, told AFP.

"We don't need cosmetic changes, we need to allow the free passage of goods and persons into and out of Gaza, subject only to reasonable security checks."

On Wednesday, Israel allowed eight trucks loaded with kitchen equipment to enter Gaza for the first time since 2006, following recent decisions to allow in snack foods and other household items that were previously banned.

Until now most such goods have been brought into Gaza through a vast network of smuggling tunnels beneath the border with Egypt and sold at inflated prices.

The border closures came under renewed criticism following Israel's deadly commando raid on ships trying to run the blockade, in which nine Turkish activists were shot dead.

Israel has argued that the closures -- imposed when one of its soldiers was seized by Gaza militants in a deadly June 2006 raid and tightened a year later when Hamas took over -- are needed to contain the Islamist movement.

In the cabinet decision, Israel said it "expects the international community to work toward the immediate release of Gilad Shalit," now 23, who is believed to be held by Hamas at a secret location in Gaza.


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## turkaholic

Gambit, 

How could you still defend the Israeli cruelty? Nine of our citizens were brutally killed one of whom was also a citizen of the United States? Oh wait he was a dual citizen so he doesn't count. You have to be of Western European origin to be considered a true American so that the killing of an American can be condemned. Thank you all for that. 

Israel is a total disgrace to humanity. The only so called 'existing channel' to send aid into Gaza that was outlined in the article is thru Israel. Wow! How convenient! Yeah they will surely deliver everything to their enemy, the Palestinians. We might as well send all the aid directly to the Israeli people. Be a little reasonable and use all the cells in your brain when trying to belittle the Turkish people. 

Today, 8 more Turkish troops were killed, because the terrorists again came in from N.Iraq and ambushed them. Can we go in there and bomb the **** out of them in N.Iraq? Of course not. They are no threat to the USA's national security. No one else matter. you have no effin right to talk about **** like this.


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## Jigs

turkaholic said:


> Gambit,
> 
> How could you still defend the Israeli cruelty? Nine of our citizens were brutally killed one of whom was also a citizen of the United States? Oh wait he was a dual citizen so he doesn't count. You have to be of Western European origin to be considered a true American so that the killing of an American can be condemned. Thank you all for that.
> 
> Israel is a total disgrace to humanity. The only so called 'existing channel' to send aid into Gaza that was outlined in the article is thru Israel. Wow! How convenient! Yeah they will surely deliver everything to their enemy, the Palestinians. We might as well send all the aid directly to the Israeli people. Be a little reasonable and use all the cells in your brain when trying to belittle the Turkish people.
> 
> Today, 8 more Turkish troops were killed, because the terrorists again came in from N.Iraq and ambushed them. Can we go in there and bomb the **** out of them in N.Iraq? Of course not. They are no threat to the USA's national security. No one else matter. you have no effin right to talk about **** like this.



Don't take Gambit too seriously. After all he thinks Turkey is comparable to Arab states and gets a kick out of annoying people.


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## Rumporum

Well the Israeli Navy investigation preliminary has determined that there was a serious ****-up especially from the intelligence angle on the people on the Mari Marmara. They were looking for a confrontation and were provoking us and we screwed up big big time in handling this.

The aim wasn't to kill people if that was the aim then it could have been done and the casualties would have been more. Furthermore I would like to add in my not so good Hindi/Urdu the Turks should know " Sheeshey key Ghar main rehneywale dosooron paar pathar nahii phektey or Phektaa....(not sure which is grammatically correct) hai.

Northern Cyprus and Kurdistan are there for all to see.


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## Jigs

Rumporum said:


> Well the Israeli Navy investigation preliminary has determined that there was a serious ****-up especially from the intelligence angle on the people on the Mari Marmara. They were looking for a confrontation and were provoking us and we screwed up big big time in handling this.
> 
> The aim wasn't to kill people if that was the aim then it could have been done and the casualties would have been more. Furthermore I would like to add in my not so good Hindi/Urdu the Turks should know " Sheeshey key Ghar main rehneywale dosooron paar pathar nahii phektey or Phektaa....(not sure which is grammatically correct) hai.
> 
> Northern Cyprus and Kurdistan are there for all to see.



Not this again. There is no such thing has Kurdistan. This was formed out of some kurds that decided to take their nationalistic views to greater heights. Your right! Northern Cyprus is there for all to see so get a ticket and head there lots of cool stuff to see. 







Last time i checked didn't Greece cancel their military exercise with you and set up a committee to investigate all this ?

Maybe if you ask nicely we may OK you for the Anatolian Eagle. Then again i wouldn't keep my hopes up.


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## Rumporum

What happened to Erdogan why is it taking him so long to pack is bags and get on the ship?


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## Sino-PakFriendship

Turkey is good for nothing

Without USA's support, you can't do anything on international affairs


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## xdrive

Sino-PakFriendship said:


> Turkey is good for nothing
> 
> Without USA's support, you can't do anything on international affairs



Asia Asians.


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## turkaholic

Rumporum said:


> What happened to Erdogan why is it taking him so long to pack is bags and get on the ship?



Don't act like it wouldn't scare you to death if you saw the Turkish Navy escorting an aid ship to Gaza though I think it is not the right to do. No need to escalate things and it would be very selfish of him to get on a an aid ship. I wouldn't give Israel a day of survival without USA umbrella.


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## Rumporum

Spartacus_&#931;&#960;&#940;&#961;&#964;&#945;&#954;&#959;;988418 said:


> sheesha very good if you say any thing about sheesah ill put it in ur lil jewish @$$$



Try it.... and see what happens.... and by the way your anti-Semitic rant also shows how big shows your bloody Intellect is.

Sheesha or Sheeshe (plural) in Urdu or Hindi means GLASS you MORON. NOT the pipe Bong that you smoke. Sheesha in Arabic is PIPE BONG, Hookha in Urdu/Hindi PIPE BONG...

Indian's/Pakistan's please correct me if I am wrong.

PS: In future please think when you get the time off from your Fish Packing job in Norway


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## LegionnairE

This is funny, Turks are just learnt the meaning of anti-semitism. In fact it never existed in Turks, Ottoman Empire were keeping garrisons in districts that jews are living to protect jews from christians especially in particular times of year and in modern Turkey there are still many jews are living here peacefully and having no problem...

Jews and Armenians were richest people of Ottoman Empire, Armenians in south east attacked and looted Turkish villages and then we sent armenians to Syria trek and years later they came back with that genocide bullsh*t but there is still no problem with jews. This is happening all because of Israeli government. They making a stupid mistake by using lethal force in Gaza. This is certainly an unnecessary violence and its feeding the hatering to jews and radical islamism.

Turkey is the first country gets effected from this because population is all muslim but a secular, democratic state...

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## GUNNER

TEL AVIV, July 12, 2010 (AFP) - Mistakes were made at a "relatively senior" level during the planning and execution of Israel's raid on a Gaza-bound aid boat which left nine Turkish nationals dead, an internal military probe found Monday. 

"Mistakes were made in the various decisions taken, including within relatively senior ranks, which contributed to the result not being as we would have wished," retired general Giora Eiland told reporters in Tel Aviv, presenting the results of the investigation. 

"In this inquiry we found that there were some professional mistakes regarding both the intelligence and the decision-making process," said Eiland, who chaired the panel tasked with examining how the operation unfolded and learning lessons from it.

The Eiland Committee began its work on June 7, exactly a week after the botched naval raid in international waters, which also left dozens injured and provoked an international outcry against Israel.

Eiland had on Sunday presented the team's conclusions to Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi and other military top brass who were involved in the preparations and in the actual boarding of the flotilla. 

A summary of the key findings was also presented to Defence Minister Ehud Barak, the military said in a statement.


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## araz

Spartacus_&#931;&#960;&#940;&#961;&#964;&#945;&#954;&#959;;988418 said:


> sheesha very good if you say any thing about sheesah ill put it in ur lil jewish @$$$



Stop this stupid altercation and how dare you use such language on a decent forum.POST REPORTED.
MOds please take action!!!
Araz


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## m.faisalfani

---------- Post added at 05:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

thanks for this


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## 500

turkaholic said:


> I wouldn't give Israel a day of survival without USA umbrella.


Israel won 1948, 1956, 1967 wars without US help. In fact US started helping Israel only AFTER is secured itself.

By the way, 70% of drugs brought by Erdogans flotilla were outdated and useless.


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## GentlemanObserver

500 said:


> By the way, 70% of drugs brought by Erdogans flotilla were outdated and useless.



Source? (an impartial one please)


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## 500

Paladin said:


> Source? (an impartial one please)












(11:52)


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## muse

Unfortunately for Israel, it does not care what the world thinks - and unfortunately for Israel, the time is not far when the world will not care what Israel thinks either.

If you travel around, you will discover that Israel has won much sympathy in general but also a great deal of anger, the world wants Palestine resolved and the Israeli cannot afford that, and the world cannot keep supporting Israel while it behaves in ways that bring it into danger and confrontation. 

Will the Turkish navy be accompanied by the Turkish airforce? How will such a confrontation help Israel? As to the question of how Turkiye will be helped by such a confrontation, lets just say that Israel needs friends - all this talk of striking Iran has not and will not win it friends, unless of course Christain zionists who are waiting for the end of the world to convert some Jews while the rest burn, are what "friends" are about.


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## Tuahaa

Israel was asking for it.

Gladly, Turkey was not an Arab state and had the mind to say something.


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## Tuahaa

muse said:


> If you travel around, you will discover that Israel has won much sympathy in general but also a great deal of anger, the world wants Palestine resolved and the Israeli cannot afford that, and the world cannot keep supporting Israel while it behaves in ways that bring it into danger and confrontation.



But might is right. And as long as US has the might, I doubt Israel will be brought to justice any time soon.

If there ever is a war, hope Pakistan is on the right (not USA/Israel) side of it.


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## 500

muse said:


> Unfortunately for Israel, it does not care what the world thinks - and unfortunately for Israel, the time is not far when the world will not care what Israel thinks either.


Time is working for Israel: 40 years ago Israel was not recognized by USSR, East Europe, China, Egypt, Jordan. Today all these countries recognze Isreal.



> the world wants Palestine resolved and the Israeli cannot afford that,


Israel offered state to Palestinians numerous times. They refuse to take. 



> Will the Turkish navy be accompanied by the Turkish airforce? How will such a confrontation help Israel?


Turkey will not go to war with Israel because of Arabs.

Israel-Turkey trade grew by 30&#37; in 2010 compare to 2009.


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## muse

A war is in no one's interest, certainly not Turkiye's and for the time being, not in Israel's either - but just consider, that such a eventuality is even being talked of.

500 you offer one liners - you imagine they do the job - please do take the opportunity to travel some, even in remote places peoples are aware and angry.

We wish Israel well and we want to see it integrated in Islamia as another normal country, but you would be very mistaken if you think that we want this at all costs or that US overlordship will secure this for Israel -- if you are open to advice, please learn from the failure of the US which can tell neither friend nor foe, it even imagines that it does not need to - Israel needs to and it's long term interests are within the region where it is from and where it belongs - all empires pass, and the American one will pass as well, Israel as a nation state is secured by agreement within and externally among it's neighbors, as a normal country.


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## 500

Yes, peace is in interest of both Israel and Palestinians. Problem is that peace requires strong and courageous leaders and neither Israel, nor Palestinians have them now.


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## TURK-SAT

8 million population of Israel and Turkey are trying to dance with the evil that will pay .. there is Turkey's 32 million active troops within three days will be ready for war .. was less than expected in 1948 we have established a iskal client state in the middle of the Turks come from bizki Mete Khan .. Stop the authors note that we are States ide ide dates ..


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## T-Rex

500 said:


> Time is working for Israel: 40 years ago Israel was not recognized by USSR, East Europe, China, Egypt, Jordan. Today all these countries recognze Isreal.



However, time is not working for Israel's master, it's a declining roman empire, keep that in mind since you're nothing but a client state.



500 said:


> Israel offered state to Palestinians numerous times. They refuse to take.



What israel has so far offered is not a state but a provincial status with no armed forces and therefore, no sovereignty.



500 said:


> Turkey will not go to war with Israel because of Arabs.
> 
> Israel-Turkey trade grew by 30% in 2010 compare to 2009.



Stalin had said the same thing about Germany but Germany did go to war with then Soviet Union. So, don't be so sure about Turkey for Turkey can always have trades with other countries.


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## muse

September 22, 2010
*U.N. Experts Condemn Israel Attack on Gaza Flotilla*
By REUTERS

Filed at 11:33 p.m. ET 

GENEVA (Reuters) - *An attack by Israeli commandos on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla in May was unlawful and resulted in violations of human rights and international humanitarian law, a panel of international experts said on Wednesday*. 

The three experts, nominated by the United Nations Human Rights Council to investigate the Israeli attack in which nine pro-Palestinian activists -- eight Turks and one Turkish American -- were killed, also said that Israel's blockade of Gaza had caused a humanitarian crisis and was unlawful. 

*The experts -- judges from Britain and Trinidad and a Malaysian human rights campaigner -- said in a report that the Israeli military's action had used disproportionate force and "totally unnecessary and incredible violence" in intercepting the flotilla. 

"It betrayed an unacceptable level of brutality. Such conduct cannot be justified or condoned on security or any other grounds," they said in the report, to be submitted to the rights council on September 27. 

"It constituted grave violations of human rights law and international humanitarian law." *

*The three experts said Israel had a right to security, and the firing of rockets into Israel from Hamas-controlled Gaza also constituted violations of humanitarian law. 

But the Israeli blockade of Gaza amounted to collective punishment of the civilian population and was not lawful in any circumstances, they said*. 

The rights experts, who were not allowed to enter Israel, said Israel had refused to cooperate with their mission, and called on the Israeli authorities to identify those involved in the violence and prosecute them. 

*Israel, which says pro-Palestinian activists on the boat were killed when they attacked its commandos, had said from the outset it would not work with the probe by the rights council. 

Many nations believe the council, on which Islamic states and their allies have a majority, focuses on Israeli treatment of Palestinians at the expense of other rights issues.* 

Israel has said it would cooperate with another U.N. probe convened by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon into the incident, which damaged Israel's ties with Turkey. 

Israel is also conducting its own inquiry. 

*Monday's session of the rights council will also examine another report by experts on the follow-up investigations by Israeli and Palestinian authorities into the 2008-2009 Gaza conflict. That report has found the probes were inadequate.* 

(Reporting by Jonathan Lynn, editing by Tim Pearce)


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## T-Rex

muse said:


> September 22, 2010
> *U.N. Experts Condemn Israel Attack on Gaza Flotilla*
> By REUTERS
> 
> Filed at 11:33 p.m. ET
> 
> GENEVA (Reuters) - *An attack by Israeli commandos on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla in May was unlawful and resulted in violations of human rights and international humanitarian law, a panel of international experts said on Wednesday*.
> 
> The three experts, nominated by the United Nations Human Rights Council to investigate the Israeli attack in which nine pro-Palestinian activists -- eight Turks and one Turkish American -- were killed, also said that Israel's blockade of Gaza had caused a humanitarian crisis and was unlawful.
> 
> *The experts -- judges from Britain and Trinidad and a Malaysian human rights campaigner -- said in a report that the Israeli military's action had used disproportionate force and "totally unnecessary and incredible violence" in intercepting the flotilla.
> 
> "It betrayed an unacceptable level of brutality. Such conduct cannot be justified or condoned on security or any other grounds," they said in the report, to be submitted to the rights council on September 27.
> 
> "It constituted grave violations of human rights law and international humanitarian law." *
> 
> *The three experts said Israel had a right to security, and the firing of rockets into Israel from Hamas-controlled Gaza also constituted violations of humanitarian law.
> 
> But the Israeli blockade of Gaza amounted to collective punishment of the civilian population and was not lawful in any circumstances, they said*.
> 
> The rights experts, who were not allowed to enter Israel, said Israel had refused to cooperate with their mission, and called on the Israeli authorities to identify those involved in the violence and prosecute them.
> 
> *Israel, which says pro-Palestinian activists on the boat were killed when they attacked its commandos, had said from the outset it would not work with the probe by the rights council.
> 
> Many nations believe the council, on which Islamic states and their allies have a majority, focuses on Israeli treatment of Palestinians at the expense of other rights issues.*
> 
> Israel has said it would cooperate with another U.N. probe convened by Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon into the incident, which damaged Israel's ties with Turkey.
> 
> Israel is also conducting its own inquiry.
> 
> *Monday's session of the rights council will also examine another report by experts on the follow-up investigations by Israeli and Palestinian authorities into the 2008-2009 Gaza conflict. That report has found the probes were inadequate.*
> 
> (Reporting by Jonathan Lynn, editing by Tim Pearce)



So what if the entire world community calls the raid unlawful, Israel and America say that it was lawful, so whatever the "great Caesar" does cannot be unlawful. This is the world ruled by the champions of democracy and human right.


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## muse

> So what if the entire world community calls the raid unlawful, Israel and America say that it was lawful, so whatever the "great Caesar" does cannot ne unlawful. This is the world ruled by the champions of democracy and human right.




Not so fast, T-Rex - there are at least four issues here.

First the US -- there is no longer anybody who takes the US seriously when it speaks of Human Rights and nobody in their right mind thinks the US has anything meaningful to say about "Democracy".

Second, the UN: The UN for too long has been the handmaiden of the victorious powers arising out of WWII -- the UN needs to be seen as relevant, will it ever be a forum for a fair dialogue and action? For me, it all depends of Muslim majority countries' demand and behavior to ensure that the US does behave in precisely that way.

Turkiye: See, that whole narrative about the West as a natural partner, and how free markets will integrate societies in fundamental ways -- it's all so much garbage -- now, wait a minute, didn't I say that free markets, liberal political dispensations would integrate diverse societies? Yes, but I was wrong, there is a fundamental problem with my formulation - neither liberal dispensation, nor free markets will serve to integrate societies that do not wish to be integrated - for an example of this see the EU and the terms it sets for Turkish membership.

Israel: Idiot Israel!, ever the problem child - The world needs an Israel, it does not mean that the world has to like Israel -- but Israelis might consider how much easier life would be if the world could like Israel, after all, how long can guilt be milked?


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## T-Rex

muse said:


> Not so fast, T-Rex - there are at least four issues here.
> 
> First the US -- there is no longer anybody who takes the US seriously when it speaks of Human Rights and nobody in their right mind thinks the US has anything meaningful to say about "Democracy".



It's true that nobody takes the US seriously when it preaches democracy or human rights,nevertheless, a lot of countries follow its lead willingly or unwillingly and that has a disastrous consequence for the weak nations. The rest, I agree.


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## spin666

T-Rex said:


> It's true that nobody takes the US seriously when it preaches democracy or human rights,nevertheless, a lot of countries follow its lead willingly or unwillingly and that has a disastrous consequence for the weak nations. The rest, I agree.



I didn't see any of it's ally been "unwillingly" follow it. It's all base of countrys own best interest. If it had something gaing,"then sorry m8,you are going to get bomb" like the US want.It's about getting something. Not about friendship or been ally of pact....


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