# Genocide in Kashmir - India's shame.



## Kompromat

Investigative reporter Andre Vltchek's report on the ongoing mass murder of Muslims of #Kashmir in their own lands, currently occupied by world's 'largest democracy' since 1948.

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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat



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## Kompromat

Download the report in PDF format below.

Horus from Pakistan Defence.

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## dray

There is no genocide in Kashmir, it's just that our security agencies are working hard to protect the Indians of Kashmir from foreign funded cross-border terrorism.

And the writer should check the definition of 'genocide' in a good dictionary.

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## Levina

DRAY said:


> There is no genocide in Kashmir, it's just that our security agencies are working hard to protect the Indians of Kashmir from foreign funded cross-border terrorism.
> 
> And the writer should check the definition of 'genocide' in a good dictionary.


We know their strategy. Dont we?
They want us to reduce the number of soldiers in Kashmir...and no points for guessing the reason. 
So titles like this should not deter us.

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## Prometheus

Respect for brave soldiers ....who serving us in Kashmir.

as sikhs belongs to India ................so is Kashmir ...............after all Kashmir is of Sikhs

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## ExtraOdinary

For sure it is a genocide of jihadis, around 23000 have been dispatched to hell in the last 26 years.

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## Jf Thunder

no part of a country can be kept part of it by force, thats why we have changed our policy towards Baluchistan

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## doppelganger

Proud of my armed forces.

Jai Hind.

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## pursuit of happiness

Horus said:


> View attachment 192354
> View attachment 192355
> View attachment 192356
> 
> 
> Download the report in PDF format below.
> 
> Horus from Pakistan Defence.


---
Nice.. read..
good script for documentary .. but that for entertainment value ..nothing more.
--
*Genocide.. 
did author follow international UN definition of genocide definition - NO..
so take this *
Genocide Convention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The international legal definition of genocide - Prevent Genocide International
The international legal definition of the crime of genocide is found in Articles II and III of the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide.
Article II describes two elements of the crime of genocide:

1) the _mental element,_ meaning the"intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such", and

2) the_ physical element _which includes five acts described in sections a, b, c, d and e. A crime must include _both elements_ to be called "genocide."

Article III described five punishable forms of the crime of genocide: genocide; conspiracy, incitement, attempt and complicity.

Excerpt from the_ Convention on the Prevention and 
Punishment of Genocide_ _(For full text click here) _
"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article III: The following acts shall be punishable:

(a) Genocide;

(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;

(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

(d) Attempt to commit genocide;

(e) Complicity in genocide. "

*Nothing is proved on actual accont than emotional quotines *
---
*Genocide in pakistan ...*
Genocide Watch
Early Warning Signs of Shia Genocide in Pakistan | The Diplomat
Pakistan's Shia genocide - Al Jazeera English
*does this mean pakistan doing genocide of al shia ? i dont fully subcribe to it .

--
please let me know your view on Ughir issue and thread which running on pdf and its contents .. *
The Uyghur issue
*what china is doing is acceptable to above defination ?
---
Conclusion
you have right to have opinion .. what ever it is.. so everyone.. 
i did not see you in ughir thread .. where you own ummah want your help.. where your another brother tukey is agint china .. 
but you remain silent... why ... ?.. 
kashmir is juggarl vein.. why ummah.. brother hood.. care of kashmiri.. xyz.. 
that only come for kashmir.. and other place.. ?mainly wrt to china now .. you becme silent.. ?
all kashmir drama for water.. even water you get you cant manage.. we had fllod in kashmir few month back now yout GOp says ther will be water scarity.. wow.. 
you dont care for your own people forget about kashmiris.. 
same policy befor for USA.. world know USA did wrong with saddam and lied for WMD.. but still who become front state for WOT .. pakistan .. 
you giving first hand to USA who killed your own ummah people? or they are shia so .. no no they are not muslim BS.
you still have polio .. a worst crime againt humanity.. and WHO guy who was pakistani was working with india for project for polio..
pak establsihment ego is so high that they will let people die and handicap for polio but will not accept indias help.. 
but brag 10 times for kashmir..
--
Dear .. first make your won house in order.. 
i am not saying india is super duper .. we still have most poverty and all issue.. but one by one we are getting thing fixed. 
can you say for pak...with facts .. ? NO ..
let be practical than emotional.. 
both nation not perfect ...but atlease india can say we are on right path .. will pak say that (with facts and figure )
lets come togther and work for people.. 
is that diffcult ..

note:i have nothing aginat china.. i just used ughy example to show doubel stnadtds .*



Jf Thunder said:


> no part of a country can be kept part of it by force, thats why we have changed our policy towards Baluchistan


--
waht wa your policy and waht you changed?



ExtraOdinary said:


> For sure it is a genocide of jihadis, around 23000 have been dispatched to hell in the last 26 years.


--
they are FF... or jiahid or gazi.. 
confused.. 



Jf Thunder said:


> no part of a country can be kept part of it by force, thats why we have changed our policy towards Baluchistan


--
saw your tag line ..
why cant you ask pakistani with us flag that question..
why they are in that S...t ?

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## syedali73

Hats off for Kashmiris who are standing tall in the shadow of genocide, rapes, and all sorts of human right abuses violations for past 67 years.

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## doppelganger

syedali73 said:


> Hats off for Kashmiris who are standing tall in the shadow of genocide, rapes, and all sorts of human right abuses violations for past 67 years.



Buddy, take one look at Sri Lanka right in the neighborhood to realize the lies in the tale and what India could really very easily do were it to really want to.

And if the international community can do squat all to the Sri Lankans, take a wild guess the importance India puts to the same.

The only thing saving the Kashmiris today is the fact that they are sensible enough to stick to stones. Self preservation instinct trumps Azaadi anyday.

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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> waht wa your policy and waht you changed?


first our poicy was using Armed force against everyone,
now its armed force against anyone who fights, even then we have given them a choice of rehabilitation and protection if they surrender...........


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> first our poicy was using Armed force against everyone,
> now its armed force against anyone who fights, even then we have given them a choice of rehabilitation and protection if they surrender...........


--
you was using force before and now too you doing same.. 
Surrender is political process not military process.
--
you give bullets to all you get same in return 
--


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## kurup

Good work by Indian security agencies at the face of Pakistan sponsored terrorism .


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> you was using force before and now too you doing same..
> Surrender is political process not military process.
> --
> you give bullets to all you get same in return
> --


oh i forgot you live in Baluchistan so you know better than me, ok sorry


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> oh i forgot you live in Baluchistan so you know better than me, ok sorry


--
heee..
nows era you dont need to be on moon to see what on moon...
---
my point is simple..see hisoty from direct action day to till now.. most use of brutal force .. 
nothing else .. 
if i am wrong provw wiht facts


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## Echo_419

Prometheus said:


> Respect for brave soldiers ....who serving us in Kashmir.
> 
> as sikhs belongs to India ................so is Kashmir ...............after all Kashmir is of Sikhs



Kashmir is for all of Indians,please don't talk like our neighbors bringing religion into everything
On topic 
Genocide against these Jihadi Scums will continue


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> heee..
> nows era you dont need to be on moon to see what on moon...
> ---
> my point is simple..see hisoty from direct action day to till now.. most use of brutal force ..
> nothing else ..
> if i am wrong provw wiht facts


im talking about
the present
so
give me facts that
the PA
is using brutal 
force in
Baluchistan
heeee


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> im talking about
> the present
> so
> give me facts that
> the PA
> is using brutal
> force in
> Baluchistan
> heeee


---
seach dawn your own nespaer plenty of stufff
search youtube its aviable in simple clcik..
--
my point is only one.. pakistan have hisotry of using force
read about kahn abudle gaffar kahn - frontier gandhi .. what GOP did to him 
and recent video from his party .. one lady in your policis or in your assembly .. she was just simple but effective on said topic.
---


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## Srinivas

The author also writes fictions !


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## Levina

Off topic:

@WebMaster

I can see tags below this thread. Why're not the normal users allowed to use tags?
I know we have discussed this eaelier, but back then you 'd told me that members must use the tags already provided. Could you just tell us what 're list of tags that 're already in place?


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> seach dawn your own nespaer plenty of stufff
> search youtube its aviable in simple clcik..
> --
> my point is only one.. pakistan have hisotry of using force
> read about kahn abudle gaffar kahn - frontier gandhi .. what GOP did to him
> and recent video from his party .. one lady in your policis or in your assembly .. she was just simple but effective on said topic.
> ---


well you arent very lenient yourself, so i doubt you should be pointing fingers at others, k? and Ghaffar Khan wanted to be independent so did the Faqir of Ipi, so of course they will be met with an Iron hand, like you are doing in Kashmir, and like you did with the Sikhs, k?
and i am talking about the present, we have stepped down that Iron hand in Baluchistan, so keep this BS to urself, k?


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> well you arent very lenient yourself, so i doubt you should be pointing fingers at others, k? and Ghaffar Khan wanted to be independent so did the Faqir of Ipi, so of course they will be met with an Iron hand, like you are doing in Kashmir, and like you did with the Sikhs, k?
> and i am talking about the present, we have stepped down that Iron hand in Baluchistan, so keep this BS to urself, k?


--
gaffar khan.. 
i know he wanted independent nation .. but then he accepted paksitan right? 
he was member of you lesgilative.. right? 
still how you behaved with him?
-- 
kashmir..
is india is innocent saint .. no..
we did mistake but not crime like terrorism 
--- 
sikh..
sikhs are happy in india and prosperous too.. 
we again did mistke which used by pak aka kashlistna movemet ..s till trying it.. 
but dont relasised kashlistan is for sikh .. mean both paunjab indina and pak..
even worst case scnario india lost pujba.. it one state less.. but for you jsut one state less of hole pakistan is pujab per se.. wrt politics army isn't it?
--- 
Baluchistan 
ok if you think its BS.. fine
go to youtube...study it you will get it .. 
--
Ughys.
what your view on ughys issue of china..
are they not brothers.. ummmah ? 
or china doing nothng wrong ?


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## doppelganger

@SarthakGanguly

In case you missed this propaganda thread.

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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> gaffar khan..
> i know he wanted independent nation .. but then he accepted paksitan right?
> he was member of you lesgilative.. right?
> still how you behaved with him?
> --
> kashmir..
> is india is innocent saint .. no..
> we did mistake but not crime like terrorism
> ---
> sikh..
> sikhs are happy in india and prosperous too..
> we again did mistke which used by pak aka kashlistna movemet ..s till trying it..
> but dont relasised kashlistan is for sikh .. mean both paunjab indina and pak..
> even worst case scnario india lost pujba.. it one state less.. but for you jsut one state less of hole pakistan is pujab per se.. wrt politics army isn't it?
> ---
> Baluchistan
> ok if you think its BS.. fine
> go to youtube...study it you will get it ..
> --
> Ughys.
> 
> what your view on ughys issue of china..
> are they not brothers.. ummmah ?
> or china doing nothing wrong ?


the Ughys are apparently also bothering other Chinese Muslims, and are spreading wahabisim, no ones wants Wahabism, thats why Op Zarb E Azb, k?
anyone can post anything on you tube k? so i dont think so
did you or did you not kill a sh*t load of Sikhs, during that movement?
India, sponsors terrorism in Pakistan, k? the TTP are your mercenaries so deal with the fact that we are killing your investment like flies


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## SarthakGanguly

Nice. 


Horus said:


> Investigative reporter Andre Vltchek's report on the ongoing mass murder of Muslims of #Kashmir in their own lands, currently occupied by world's 'largest democracy' since 1948.
> 
> View attachment 192325
> View attachment 192326
> View attachment 192327
> View attachment 192328
> View attachment 192329
> View attachment 192330
> View attachment 192331
> View attachment 192332


I will also post pictures tonight. It will show pics taken last May...genocide was obviously still happening then...

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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> the Ughys are apparently also bothering other Chinese Muslims, and are spreading wahabisim, no ones wants Wahabism, thats why Op Zarb E Azb, k?
> anyone can post anything on you tube k? so i dont think so
> did you or did you not kill a sh*t load of Sikhs, during that movement?
> India, sponsors terrorism in Pakistan, k? the TTP are your mercenaries so deal with the fact that we are killing your investment like flies


---
Ughys.. 
shall same logic apply in kashmir..
some ff//mujahid //terrorist bothering indina mumsoim and spreding terror.. no one want terror so need to ahve arm and ops there right 
so nothing ummah thing right 
-- 
youtube..
right.. 
but there are very well auntheetic high value tubes which can be look at...
-- 
Sikh movemet
sikh was with india -undivded and with both countires after partition...
as i said india did mistkae but not crime.. but those picked by pak used as kashlistan .. 
so that result..
are we proud of that hisoty no .. was it neccesary yes 
-- 
inda terrorisam TTP
dear
1000 times people your gvt said...
we said same for 26.11 and proved with fact ...where ajmal kasab came from .. search dawn 
prove.. it 
is it that hard 
either you dont ahve proof .. or pak still have enough prrof to balme but dont show to world ..un.icj.. becuase GOP is aginst intrest of pak .. 
which ever case you decide..



SarthakGanguly said:


> Nice.
> 
> I will also post pictures tonight. It will show pics taken last May...genocide was obviously still happening then...


--
even tp brass of pdf play your picture vs my picture

strange but true


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> ---
> Ughys..
> shall same logic apply in kashmir..
> some ff//mujahid //terrorist bothering indina mumsoim and spreding terror.. no one want terror so need to ahve arm and ops there right
> so nothing ummah thing right
> --
> youtube..
> right..
> but there are very well auntheetic high value tubes which can be look at...
> --
> Sikh movemet
> sikh was with india -undivded and with both countires after partition...
> as i said india did mistkae but not crime.. but those picked by pak used as kashlistan ..
> so that result..
> are we proud of that hisoty no .. was it neccesary yes
> --
> inda terrorisam TTP
> dear
> 1000 times people your gvt said...
> we said same for 26.11 and proved with fact ...where ajmal kasab came from .. search dawn
> prove.. it
> is it that hard
> either you dont ahve proof .. or pak still have enough prrof to balme but dont show to world ..un.icj.. becuase GOP is aginst intrest of pak ..
> which ever case you decide..
> 
> 
> --
> even tp brass of pdf play your picture vs my picture
> 
> strange but true


the Chinese province isnt disputed
yes, and some u tube vids say we won 1965 war with India, so u tube us useless
very necessary, lost your PM
everyone knows, we dont show, GOI is a cry baby thats why they cry at everything.........


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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> the Chinese province isnt disputed
> yes, and some u tube vids say we won 1965 war with India, so u tube us useless
> very necessary, lost your PM
> everyone knows, we dont show, GOI is a cry baby thats why they cry at everything.........


--
i asked ughy issue not land dispute ... 
chinase trastrmet to ughiurs and pak viewon muslimm bro there? 
--
tube..
but there are *very well authentic high value tubes* which can be look at.
--
PM
we lost PM yes.. 
*are we proud of that history no .. was it necessary yes*
--
GOI cry bay and everybody know.. 
we saw it un UNGA and other interntaiton forum


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## PlanetWarrior

His book may become a best seller in Pakistan


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## Jf Thunder

pursuit of happiness said:


> --
> i asked ughy issue not land dispute ...
> chinase trastrmet to ughiurs and pak viewon muslimm bro there?
> --
> tube..
> but there are *very well authentic high value tubes* which can be look at.
> --
> PM
> we lost PM yes..
> *are we proud of that history no .. was it necessary yes*
> --
> GOI cry bay and everybody know..
> we saw it un UNGA and other interntaiton forum


you are going around and around in circles..............
so similarly
are we proud of Balcistan Operation..................no
was it necessary.......yes

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## pursuit of happiness

Jf Thunder said:


> you are going around and around in circles..............
> so similarly
> are we proud of Balcistan Operation..................no
> was it necessary.......yes


---
i am keeping thing simple.. factual... 
your nation view on kashmir and world view is 18 0 degre apart.. 
we proved waht we wanted ... if you proof ple come forward with that 
--
on kashmir who support you on world forum ?


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## AsianLion

Indian Army and Government just caught a dangerous militant.....

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## Zibago

Ambulance driver shot in arm still drove with one hand & dropped patients at # SMHS .
# KashmirCrisis
An Ambulance driver of health department was shot by the government forces in Srinagar’s Safakadal area while he was ferrying patients from Kangan to SMHS hospital.
The driver Ghulam Mohammad Sofi was moved to the SMHS Hospital from where he was referred to SKIMS Soura for specialized treatment.
@Mr.Meap @django @The Sandman @Jonah Arthur

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## The Eagle

Latest:

Indian Occupation Forces shot a Kashmiri youth. Mourners carry Pakistani flags during Funeral. 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10209456349479096

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## El Sidd

The International community has yet to respond as India initiates phase 2 of Kashmiri genocide.


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## ghazi52




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## Maarkhoor

*کشمیریوں کا پرتشدد فوجی کریک ڈاؤن کا الزام: ’ہم پر تشدد نہ کریں، بس گولی مار دیں‘*

*انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر میں ریاست کی خود مختاری ختم کرنے کے حکومتی فیصلے کے بعد کشمیریوں نے سکیورٹی فورسز پر مارپیٹ اور تشدد کے الزامات عائد کیے ہیں۔*

*کئی دیہاتیوں نے بی بی سی کو بتایا کہ انھیں لاٹھیوں اور بھاری تاروں سے مارا گیا اور بجلی کے جھٹکے دیے گئے۔*

*ہمیں کئی دیہاتیوں نے اپنے زخم بھی دکھائے ہیں۔ تاہم بی بی سی حکام کی طرف سے ان الزامات کی تصدیق نہیں کر سکا ہے۔*

*انڈیا کی فوج نے ان الزامات کو ’بے بنیاد اور غیر مُصدقہ‘ قرار دیا ہے۔*

*شدید ترین پابندیوں نے انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر کو تین ہفتوں سے بھی زائد عرصے سے لاک ڈاؤن کی صورتحال میں دھکیل دیا ہے اور 5 اگست کو جموں و کشمیر کو خصوصی حیثیت دینے والے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کے بعد سے اندرونی حالات سے متعلق معلومات بمشکل باہر آ رہی ہیں۔*

*یہ بھی پڑھیے*
’ایسا لگتا ہے ڈل جھیل بھی خوفزدہ ہے‘

کشمیری نوجوان کو گھر جانے کے لیے عدالت سے رجوع کرنا پڑا

’انڈیا اتنا کمزور نہیں کہ امریکہ کی بات مان لے‘

*خطے میں ہزاروں اضافی فوجیوں کو تعینات کیا گیا ہے اور اطلاعات کے مطابق سیاسی رہنماؤں، کاروباری شخصیات اور کارکنان سمیت تقریباً 3000 افراد کو زیرِ حراست رکھا گیا ہے۔ کئی افراد کو ریاست کے باہر موجود جیلوں میں منتقل کر دیا گیا ہے۔*

*



*
*Image captionایک نوجوان کے مطابق سپاہیوں نے ان پر تشدد کے بعد گاؤں میں سب کو خبردار کرنے کے لیے کہا کہ اگر کسی نے بھی فورسز کے خلاف مظاہروں میں شرکت کی تو انھیں ایسے ہی نتائج کا سامنا کرنا پڑے گا*
*حکام کے مطابق یہ اقدامات حفاظتی نوعیت کے ہیں اور علاقے میں امن و امان کی صورتحال برقرار رکھنے کے لیے کیے گئے ہیں۔ جموں و کشمیر مسلمان اکثریت رکھنے والی انڈیا کی واحد ریاست تھی لیکن اب اسے دو الگ حصوں میں تقسیم کر دیا گیا ہے جو وفاق کے زیر انتظام ہوں گی۔*

*انڈین فوج کو یہاں تین دہائیوں سے بھی زیادہ عرصے سے علیحدگی پسند جدوجہد کا سامنا ہے۔ انڈیا پاکستان پر خطے میں عسکریت پسندوں کی پشت پناہی کے ذریعے تشدد کو ہوا دینے کا الزام لگاتا ہے تاہم کشمیر کا ایک حصہ کنٹرول کرنے والا اس کا پڑوسی ملک پاکستان اس الزام کی تردید کرتا ہے۔*

*انڈیا میں کئی افراد نے آرٹیکل 370 کے خاتمے کی حمایت کی ہے اور وزیر اعظم نریندر مودی کے اس ’نڈر‘ فیصلے پر ان کی تعریف کی ہے۔ انڈیا کے مرکزی دھارے کے میڈیا نے بھی اس فیصلے کی بھرپور حمایت کی ہے۔*

*تنبیہ: نیچے دیا گیا مواد کچھ قارئین کے لیے تکلیف دہ ہوسکتا ہے*
*میں نے انڈیا کے زیرِ انتظام کشمیر کے جنوبی اضلاع کے کوئی آدھ درجن دیہاتوں کا دورہ کیا۔ یہ وہ علاقے ہیں جو گذشتہ کچھ برسوں سے انڈیا مخالف عسکریت پسندی کا گڑھ سمجھے جاتے ہیں۔ میں نے ان تمام دیہاتوں میں کئی لوگوں سے رات گئے چھاپوں، مارپیٹ، اور تشدد کی ملتی جلتی کہانیاں سنی ہیں۔*

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*ڈاکٹرز اور محکمہ صحت کے حکام صحافیوں سے کسی بھی مریض کے بارے میں کوئی بات نہیں کرنا چاہتے، چاہے انھیں کوئی بھی بیماری ہو۔ لیکن دیہی علاقوں میں رہنے والوں نے مجھے اپنے زخم دکھائے اور ان کا الزام سکیورٹی فورسز پر لگایا ہے۔*

*ایک گاؤں میں دیہاتیوں کا کہنا تھا کہ انڈیا کی جانب سے اپنے زیرِ انتظام کشمیر اور دہلی کے درمیان خصوصی انتظام کو ختم کرنے کے متنازع فیصلے کے چند گھنٹوں بعد ہی فوج گھر گھر گئی۔*

*دو بھائیوں کا الزام تھا کہ انھیں جگایا گیا اور باہر ایک علاقے میں لے جایا گیا جہاں ان کے گاؤں کے تقریباً ایک درجن دیگر مرد بھی جمع تھے۔ ہم جس سے بھی ملے، ان کی طرح یہ لوگ بھی اپنی شناخت ظاہر ہونے پر سنگین نتائج کے خوف کا شکار تھے۔*

*ان میں سے ایک نے بتایا ’انھوں نے ہمیں مارا۔ ہم ان سے پوچھتے رہے ’ہم نے کیا کیا ہے؟ آپ گاؤں والوں سے پوچھ لیں اگر ہم نے کچھ غلط کیا ہے؟‘ مگر وہ کچھ بھی سننا نہیں چاہتے تھے اور انھوں نے کچھ بھی نہیں کہا، وہ بس ہمیں مارتے رہے۔‘*

*’انھوں نے میرے جسم کے ہر حصے پر مارا پیٹا۔ انھوں نے ہمیں لاتیں ماریں، ڈنڈوں سے مارا، بجلی کے جھٹکے دیے، تاروں سے پیٹا۔ انھوں نے ہمیں ٹانگوں کی پچھلی جانب مارا۔ جب ہم بے ہوش ہو گئے تو انھوں نے ہمیں ہوش میں لانے کے لیے بجلی کے جھٹکے دیے۔ جب انھوں نے ہمیں ڈنڈوں سے مارا اور ہم چیخے تو انھوں نے ہمارے منہ مٹی سے بھر دیے۔*

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*Image captionبے مثال پابندیوں نے انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر کو تین ہفتوں سے بھی زائد عرصے سے لاک ڈاؤن کی صورتحال میں دھکیل دیا ہے*
*’ہم نے انھیں بتایا کہ ہم بے قصور ہیں۔ ہم نے ان سے پوچھا کہ وہ یہ کیوں کر رہے تھے؟ مگر انھوں نے ہماری ایک نہ سنی۔ میں نے ان سے کہا کہ ہم پر تشدد نہ کریں، بس ہمیں گولی مار دیں۔ میں خدا سے موت کی دعا کر رہا تھا کیونکہ یہ تشدد ناقابلِ برداشت تھا۔‘*

*ایک اور نوجوان دیہاتی نے کہا کہ سکیورٹی اہلکار ان سے کہتے رہے ’پتھراؤ کرنے والوں کے نام بتاؤ‘۔ ان کا اشارہ ان عموماً نوجوان اور نوعمر لڑکوں کی جانب تھا جو گذشتہ ایک دہائی سے وادی کشمیر میں سویلین مظاہروں کا چہرہ بن چکے ہیں۔‘*

*انھوں نے کہا کہ انھوں نے سپاہیوں سے کہا بھی کہ وہ کسی کو نہیں جانتے، جس پر انھیں عینک، کپڑے اور جوتے اتارنے کے لیے کہا گیا۔*

*’جب میں نے کپڑے اتارے تو انھوں نے تقریباً دو گھنٹے تک مجھے بے رحمی سے ڈنڈوں اور سلاخوں کے ساتھ پیٹا۔ جب میں بے ہوش ہو گیا تو انھوں نے مجھے ہوش میں لانے کے لیے بجلی کے جھٹکے دیے۔‘*

*انھوں نے کہا ’اگر انھوں نے میرے ساتھ یہ دوبارہ کیا تو میں کچھ بھی کرنے کے لیے تیار ہوں۔ میں بندوق اٹھاؤں گا۔ میں یہ روز روز برداشت نہیں کر سکتا۔‘*

*ان نوجوان نے مزید بتایا کہ سپاہیوں نے گاؤں میں سب کو خبردار کرنے کے لیے کہا کہ اگر کسی اور نے بھی فورسز کے خلاف مظاہروں میں شرکت کی تو انھیں ایسے ہی نتائج کا سامنا کرنا پڑے گا۔*

*ہم نے تمام دیہاتوں میں جتنے بھی لوگوں سے بات کی، ان کا ماننا تھا کہ سکیورٹی فورسز نے یہ دیہاتیوں کو ڈرانے کے لیے کیا تاکہ وہ احتجاج کرنے سے خوف زدہ رہیں۔*

*بی بی سی کو دیے گئے ایک بیان میں انڈیا کی فوج نے کہا ’الزامات کے برعکس اس نے کسی شہری کو تشدد کا نشانہ نہیں بنایا ہے۔‘*

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*Image captionانڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر میں ریاست کی خود مختاری ختم کرنے کے حکومتی فیصلے کے بعد کشمیریوں نے سکیورٹی فورسز پر مارپیٹ اور تشدد کے الزامات عائد کیے ہیں*
*فوج کے ترجمان کرنل امن آنند نے کہا ’اس نوعیت کے کوئی بھی الزامات ہمارے نوٹس میں نہیں لائے گئے ہیں۔ یہ الزامات ممکنہ طور پر دشمن عناصر کی جانب سے پروان چڑھائے گئے ہیں۔‘*

*انھوں نے مزید کہا کہ سویلینز کے تحفظ کے لیے اقدامات اٹھائے گئے تھے مگر ’فوج کی جانب سے جوابی اقدامات کے نتیجے میں کوئی زخمی یا ہلاک نہیں ہوا ہے۔‘*

*ہم کئی دیہات سے گزرے جہاں کے زیادہ تر رہائشی علیحدگی کے حامی عسکریت پسند گروہوں کے لیے نرم گوشہ رکھتے تھے اور انھیں 'جنگجوئے آزادی' قرار دیتے۔*

*انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر کے اس حصے میں ہی ایک ایسا ضلع ہے جہاں فروری میں ہونے والے ایک خودکش حملے نے 40 سے زائد انڈین فوجیوں کو ہلاک کر دیا تھا اور پاکستان اور انڈیا کو جنگ کے دہانے پر لا کھڑا کیا تھا۔*

*یہی وہ خطہ ہے جہاں مشہور کشمیری عسکریت پسند برہان وانی سنہ 2016 میں ہلاک ہوئے تھے، جس کے بعد کئی نوجوان اور غصیلے کشمیریوں نے انڈیا کے خلاف مزاحمت میں حصہ لیا۔*

*اس خطے میں ایک فوجی کیمپ ہے اور سپاہی یہاں باقاعدگی سے چھاپے مارتے ہیں تاکہ عسکریت پسندوں اور ان کے ہمدردوں کا پتا چلایا جا سکے، مگر دیہاتی کہتے ہیں کہ وہ اکثر ان کے بیچ میں پھنس جاتے ہیں۔*

*ایک دیہات میں میری ملاقات 20 کے پیٹے میں موجود ایک شخص سے ہوئی جس نے کہا کہ فوج نے انھیں دھمکی دی تھی کہ اگر وہ عسکریت پسندوں کے خلاف مخبر نہ بنے تو انھیں پھنسا دیا جائے گا۔ انھوں نے الزام لگایا کہ ان کے انکار پر انھیں اس بری طرح تشدد کا نشانہ بنایا گیا کہ دو ہفتے گزر جانے کے بعد بھی وہ کمر کے بل لیٹ نہیں سکتے۔*

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*انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر میں صورہ کے علاقے میں انڈیا مخالف مظاہرے کی ویڈیو*
*ان کا کہنا تھا ’اگر یہ جاری رہا تو میرے پاس اپنا گھر چھوڑ دینے کے علاوہ اور کوئی چارہ نہیں رہے گا۔ وہ ہمیں ایسے مارتے ہیں جیسے جانوروں کو مارا جاتا ہے۔ وہ ہمیں انسان ہی نہیں سمجھتے۔‘*

*ہمیں اپنے زخم دکھانے والے ایک اور شخص نے کہا کہ ’15 سے 16 سپاہیوں‘ نے انھیں زمین پر گرایا اور ’تاروں، بندوقوں، ڈنڈوں اور شاید فولادی سلاخوں سے‘ بری طرح تشدد کا نشانہ بنایا۔*

*’میں نیم بے ہوش تھا۔ انھوں نے میری داڑھی اس بری طرح سے کھینچی کہ مجھے لگا جیسے میرے دانت باہر گر پڑیں گے۔‘*

*انھوں نے کہا کہ ان پر ہونے والا تشدد دیکھنے والے ایک لڑکے نے انھیں بتایا کہ ایک فوجی نے ان کی داڑھی جلانے کی کوشش کے تھی مگر دوسرے فوجی نے انھیں روک دیا تھا۔*

*ایک دوسرے گاؤں میں میری ملاقات ایک اور نوجوان سے ہوئی جنھوں نے کہا کہ ان کے بھائی نے دو سال قبل کشمیر پر انڈیا کی حکومت کے خلاف لڑنے والے سب سے بڑے گروہوں میں سے ایک حزب المجاہدین میں شرکت اختیار کر لی تھی۔*

*انھوں نے کہا کہ حال ہی میں ان سے ایک فوجی کیمپ میں تفتیش کی گئی تھی جہاں انھوں نے الزام لگایا کہ ان پر تشدد کیا گیا تھا اور ایک ٹانگ توڑ دی گئی تھی۔*

*وہ کہتے ہیں ’انھوں نے میرے ہاتھ باندھ دیے اور مجھے الٹا لٹکا دیا۔ انھوں نے مجھے دو سے زائد گھنٹوں تک شدید تشدد کا نشانہ بنایا۔‘*

*مگر انڈیا کی فوج ان تمام الزامات کو مسترد کرتی ہے۔*

*بی بی سی کو دیے گئے ایک بیان میں انھوں نے کہا وہ 'ایک پیشہ ور ادارہ ہے جو انسانی حقوق کو سمجھتے ہیں اور ان کی عزت کرتے ہیں‘ اور یہ کہ تمام الزامات کی ’فوری تفتیش‘ کی جاتی ہے۔*

*بیان میں مزید کہا گیا کہ قومی کمیشن برائے انسانی حقوق (این ایچ آر سی) کی جانب سے پچھلے پانچ برسوں میں اٹھائے گئے 37 کیسز میں سے 20 بے بنیاد تھے، 15 میں تحقیقات جاری ہیں اور ’صرف تین کیسز میں الزامات کو قابلِ تفتیش پایا گیا۔‘ بیان میں کہا گیا کہ قصوروار پائے جانے والوں کو سزا دی جاتی ہے۔*

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*Image captionایک نوجوان کے مطابق حال ہی میں ان سے ایک فوجی کیمپ میں تفتیش کی گئی تھی جہاں ان پر تشدد کیا گیا تھا اور ان کی ایک ٹانگ توڑ دی گئی تھی*
*مگر اس سال کے آغاز میں کشمیر کی دو نمایاں انسانی حقوق کی تنظیموں کی جانب سے جاری کردہ رپورٹ میں انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر میں گذشتہ تین دہائیوں میں انسانی حقوق کی خلاف ورزیوں کے سینکڑوں مبینہ کیسز کو قلمبند کیا گیا ہے۔*

*اقوامِ متحدہ کے کمیشن برائے انسانی حقوق نے بھی انڈیا کے زیر انتظام کشمیر میں انسانی حقوق کی خلاف ورزیوں کے الزامات کی جامع اور آزادانہ بین الاقوامی تحقیقات کے لیے ایک کمیشن آف انکوائری تشکیل دینے کا مطالبہ کیا ہے۔ اس نے خطے میں سکیورٹی فورسز کی جانب سے مبینہ زیادتیوں کے بارے میں ایک 49 صفحوں پر مشتمل رپورٹ بھی جاری کی ہے۔*

*انڈیا نے ان الزامات اور اس رپورٹ کو مسترد کر دیا ہے۔*

*کشمیر میں کیا ہو رہا ہے؟*
*کشمیر ایک ہمالیائی علاقہ ہے جسے انڈیا اور پاکستان مکمل طور پر اپنا حصہ قرار دیتے ہیں مگر دونوں ممالک کے زیرِ انتظام اس کا کچھ حصہ ہے۔ دونوں ممالک کے درمیان کشمیر پر دو جنگیں اور ایک محدود مسلح تنازعہ ہوچکا ہے۔*

*انڈیا کے زیرِ انتظام حصے یعنی ریاست جموں و کشمیر کو اب سے کچھ عرصہ پہلے تک انڈیا کے آئین کی شق 370 کے تحت جزوی خود مختاری حاصل تھی۔*

*اگست کی 5 تاریخ کو انڈیا کی حکومت نے شق 370 کا خاتمہ کر دیا۔ وزیرِ اعظم نریندر مودی اور ان کی حکمراں جماعت بھارتیہ جنتا پارٹی (بی جے پی) کا مؤقف ہے کہ کشمیر کی حیثیت ملک کے دیگر حصوں جیسی ہی ہونی چاہیے۔*

*تب سے اب تک انڈیا کے زیرِ انتظام کشمیر میں لاک ڈاؤن جاری ہے، بھلے ہی کچھ بڑے احتجاجی مظاہرے ہوئے ہیں جنھوں نے پرتشدد روپ بھی اختیار کیا۔*

*پاکستان نے اس پر غم و غصے کا اظہار کرتے ہوئے بین الاقوامی برادری سے مداخلت کرنے کا مطالبہ کیا ہے۔*
*https://www.bbc.com/urdu/regional-49506123*​

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## ghazi52




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## ghazi52




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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1246300526615998469

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1


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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247481418776633344


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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1247938547564163074


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## BHarwana

20 hours have passed and Shopian still under siege by Indian army. India killed 3 teenagers and announced that they have killed the commander and vice commander of AGH an off shoot of AlQaida in kashmir but the commander of Al Qaida has already issued a statement that they were not in the area even. India tired to hide its atrocities in Shopian under the pretext of counter terrorism. India has so far killed 3 teenagers there and a woman lost her both legs after being shot by Indian army.

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## Champion_Usmani

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1262741895685398535


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## FuturePAF

Someone compiled a list of some of the atrocities committed by the Indian which are why the Kashmiris demand Azaadi.

mid you click on the post you get the accounts including units that carried out the acts



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1271442169778155528


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## Mugwop

Who are you trying to shame? These people take pride in murdering innocent people.


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## PanzerKiel

*IOK police charge army officer with killing three labourers in staged gunfight*


Police in Indian-occupied Kashmir (IOK) on Saturday charged a captain of the Indian army and his two accomplices for killing three local labourers and passing them as militants.

In a charge sheet filed in a local court, police said the captain had staged a gunfight in South Kashmir on July 8 to make it appear like a clash with militants.

A special investigation team of Jammu and Kashmir Police, which was tasked to probe the fake encounter, filed a 300-page charge sheet against the army officer.

Wajahat Hussian, deputy superintendent of police who headed the probe committee, was quoted by local media as saying that the charge sheet has been filed against three persons in the Principal and Sessions Court Shopain area in South Kashmir.

He identified the accused as Capitan Bhupinder of 62 Rashtriya Rifles and Tabish Ahmad and Bilal Ahmad, residents of South Kashmir's Shopain and Pulwama districts respectively.

On Thursday, the army had said that the process of summary of evidence has been completed about the fake encounter in which three labourers of Rajouri district of Jammu region were killed.

The army added that the authorities concerned, along with legal advisers, are examining the case for further proceedings.

Earlier, the family had identified the deceased men as Imtiyaz Ahmad, 21, Abrar Ahmad, 25, and Abrar Khatana, 18, from photos that circulated on social media after the gunfight.

Seventy days later, the bodies of the slain young men were handed to their families after DNA samples matched with their kin.

Indian army probe
On Sept 18, the Indian military admitted wrongdoing and said its internal probe identified the three men killed as local residents, without explaining how the military had identified them. It also said an army investigation showed the soldiers had exceeded the powers granted to them under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act.

Pakistan had subsequently called for a judicial inquiry into the killings, terming the Indian army's statement an "acknowledgement that Indian occupation forces are guilty of war crimes in IIOJK (Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir)".

The Armed Forces Special Powers Act gives the Indian military in Occupied Kashmir sweeping powers to search, seize and even shoot suspects on sight without fear of prosecution. Under the Act, local authorities need federal approval to prosecute army or paramilitary soldiers in civilian courts.









IOK police charge army officer with killing three labourers in staged gunfight


Charge sheet states the Indian army captain had killed the three labourers in a staged gunfight and passed them as militants.



www.dawn.com

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## R Wing

PanzerKiel said:


> *IOK police charge army officer with killing three labourers in staged gunfight*
> 
> 
> Police in Indian-occupied Kashmir (IOK) on Saturday charged a captain of the Indian army and his two accomplices for killing three local labourers and passing them as militants.
> 
> In a charge sheet filed in a local court, police said the captain had staged a gunfight in South Kashmir on July 8 to make it appear like a clash with militants.
> 
> A special investigation team of Jammu and Kashmir Police, which was tasked to probe the fake encounter, filed a 300-page charge sheet against the army officer.
> 
> Wajahat Hussian, deputy superintendent of police who headed the probe committee, was quoted by local media as saying that the charge sheet has been filed against three persons in the Principal and Sessions Court Shopain area in South Kashmir.
> 
> He identified the accused as Capitan Bhupinder of 62 Rashtriya Rifles and Tabish Ahmad and Bilal Ahmad, residents of South Kashmir's Shopain and Pulwama districts respectively.
> 
> On Thursday, the army had said that the process of summary of evidence has been completed about the fake encounter in which three labourers of Rajouri district of Jammu region were killed.
> 
> The army added that the authorities concerned, along with legal advisers, are examining the case for further proceedings.
> 
> Earlier, the family had identified the deceased men as Imtiyaz Ahmad, 21, Abrar Ahmad, 25, and Abrar Khatana, 18, from photos that circulated on social media after the gunfight.
> 
> Seventy days later, the bodies of the slain young men were handed to their families after DNA samples matched with their kin.
> 
> Indian army probe
> On Sept 18, the Indian military admitted wrongdoing and said its internal probe identified the three men killed as local residents, without explaining how the military had identified them. It also said an army investigation showed the soldiers had exceeded the powers granted to them under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act.
> 
> Pakistan had subsequently called for a judicial inquiry into the killings, terming the Indian army's statement an "acknowledgement that Indian occupation forces are guilty of war crimes in IIOJK (Indian Illegally Occupied Jammu and Kashmir)".
> 
> The Armed Forces Special Powers Act gives the Indian military in Occupied Kashmir sweeping powers to search, seize and even shoot suspects on sight without fear of prosecution. Under the Act, local authorities need federal approval to prosecute army or paramilitary soldiers in civilian courts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IOK police charge army officer with killing three labourers in staged gunfight
> 
> 
> Charge sheet states the Indian army captain had killed the three labourers in a staged gunfight and passed them as militants.
> 
> 
> 
> www.dawn.com



The real "shame" (referencing the title of this thread) is that the Pak Govt and Armed Forces (inc the intel apparatus) has largely abandoned IOK due to a highly defensive and frankly inexcusable posture.

There are dozens of offensive options other than all-out war/invasion. The whole point of a clandestine offensive UW capability is that it can be used when deniability is desired. But, of course, all we get are childish excuses. They say every day is a fight between the right way and the easy way. We seem hell-bent on taking the easy way.

Economic difficulties and FATF-like tools (American sanctions) did not deter us from our nuclear program (considered crucial for our security) yet these excuses are used throughout ISB and RWP today to justify an unjustifiable lack of action in support of the moral and righteous Kashmiri resistance fighting against an illegal military occupation.

Renaming streets in our capital and releasing cringe-worthy jingles while letting innocent men, women and children die and disappear in the occupied territory just adds insult to injury.

Your thoughts?

@Horus @Areesh

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## PanzerKiel

R Wing said:


> Economic difficulties and FATF-like tools (American sanctions) did not deter us from our nuclear program (considered crucial for our security) yet these excuses are used throughout ISB and RWP today to justify an unjustifiable lack of action in support of the moral and righteous Kashmiri resistance fighting against an illegal military occupation.
> 
> @Horus @Areesh


What if these excuses are only for the sake of excuses... what if the apparent lack of action is intentional even though lot might be happening on ground.....what if our aims regarding IOK are still there, but maybe a completely new line of action has been choosen to achieve those.

I live on hope and optimism.


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## R Wing

PanzerKiel said:


> What if these excuses are only for the sake of excuses... what if the apparent lack of action is intentional even though lot might be happening on ground.....what if our aims regarding IOK are still there, but maybe a completely new line of action has been choosen to achieve those.
> 
> I live on hope and optimism.



If, throughout history, GHQ had demonstrated decision making that was always in the long-term interest of the country and in protecting its sovereignty (including IOK) and honor, I would certainly have as much hope as you!

But, you're right --- we must hope against hope, as that's the only way to expect and effect change.

Thanks for your response. Highly appreciated.


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## PanzerKiel

R Wing said:


> If, throughout history, GHQ had demonstrated decision making that was always in the long-term interest of the country and in protecting its sovereignty (including IOK) and honor, I would certainly have as much hope as you!
> 
> But, you're right --- we must hope against hope, as that's the only way to expect and effect change.
> 
> Thanks for your response. Highly appreciated.


It has to be accepted that decision making has been bad at times....but then it has been MOSTLY good as well. As highlighted on several other threads as well, there is a reason that Pakistan as a country is still there on the face of the earth.

Threats we have faced, and are still facing, have been of a varied nature....starting from conventional threats from India (across all domain, land, sea, air), sub-conventional threats from Afghanistan, terror proxies fighting on behalf on India, Afghanistan and several other Western Powers, several forms of threats (conventional / sub conventional / un-conventional) to our nuclear assets...sectarian issues.....i mean you name any threat and that threat has been tackled or is being tackled by us....

Not many countries have managed to survive facing such a multitude of threats over a period of more than 70 years......

Again, where some bad decisions were taken, there were several good decisions as well due to which Pakistan is kicking...

....taking a bad decision is not a bad thing....we humans do make mistakes....all countries make mistakes in their policies, doctrines, tactics......its something human.....

...in my opinion, indecisiveness is VERY DANGEROUS......better to take a bad decision, develop the situation and do course correction as you move, that increases the success probability......instead of taking no decision at all and getting defeated in detail....

GHQ is a man made system....only Allah's system is 100%....rest all man-made systems have loopholes, lacunas, room for mistakes......inititally GHQ made mistakes (1948-71) because of speedy promotions, therefore officers were not really qualified for their job (Ayub Khan rose from Lt Col to C in C in 5 years).....but those were desperate times....desperate measures.....
....later, officers became better qualified for their jobs....but even then, they still make mistakes, and they will continue to do so.....like in other nations as well...dangerous thing is not learning form mistakes....slow learning cycle.....

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## R Wing

PanzerKiel said:


> It has to be accepted that decision making has been bad at times....but then it has been MOSTLY good as well. As highlighted on several other threads as well, there is a reason that Pakistan as a country is still there on the face of the earth.
> 
> Threats we have faced, and are still facing, have been of a varied nature....starting from conventional threats from India (across all domain, land, sea, air), sub-conventional threats from Afghanistan, terror proxies fighting on behalf on India, Afghanistan and several other Western Powers, several forms of threats (conventional / sub conventional / un-conventional) to our nuclear assets...sectarian issues.....i mean you name any threat and that threat has been tackled or is being tackled by us....
> 
> Not many countries have managed to survive facing such a multitude of threats over a period of more than 70 years......
> 
> Again, where some bad decisions were taken, there were several good decisions as well due to which Pakistan is kicking...
> 
> ....taking a bad decision is not a bad thing....we humans do make mistakes....all countries make mistakes in their policies, doctrines, tactics......its something human.....
> 
> ...in my opinion, indecisiveness is VERY DANGEROUS......better to take a bad decision, develop the situation and do course correction as you move, that increases the success probability......instead of taking no decision at all and getting defeated in detail....
> 
> GHQ is a man made system....only Allah's system is 100%....rest all man-made systems have loopholes, lacunas, room for mistakes......inititally GHQ made mistakes (1948-71) because of speedy promotions, therefore officers were not really qualified for their job (Ayub Khan rose from Lt Col to C in C in 5 years).....but those were desperate times....desperate measures.....
> ....later, officers became better qualified for their jobs....but even then, they still make mistakes, and they will continue to do so.....like in other nations as well...dangerous thing is not learning form mistakes....slow learning cycle.....



Absolutely agree with you.

Our politicians really didn't help either (to put it mildly.)

I think the main problem is not tactical or operational --- I'd say we're actually world-class at this level of activity.

What concerns me is a strategy that relies too heavily on the footsoldiers and local commanders of terrorist outfits without having any intention or means of dealing with the source. If a factory is creating mindless clones (Baloch mercenary-terrorists, for example), should the strategy be to waste precious blood and treasure on fighting these clones --- or perhaps it would be more prudent to attack the source that is providing arms, money, logistical support, cyber support, etc?

Even a child understands the basics of deterrence theory. Without raising the cost for R&AW officers specifically and personally, and for the Govt of India in general, there is no way out of this quagmire. 

I only have one question: *what are we doing to raise the cost for India in terms of Baloch terrorism and the illegal occupation/annexation of IOK? *

Diplomatic offenses are largely a joke. The world already knows exactly what India is doing (esp Western intel agencies) --- they don't need to be told. Plus, we know where their long-term interests (arms sales, investments to counter China, etc.) Finally, this diplomatic stuff is essentially a political maneuver --- what is the purpose of spec ops trained to operate deep behind enemy lines, intel black ops trained for offensive covert action, deniable proxies, etc., if they're just going to stand around and do nothing against enemies outside our borders?! The entire purpose of a capable offensive intel outfit is that it can give you deniable UW options when conventional action is not really possible. Either such outfits should justify the reason for their existence by demonstrating their capability (and WILL) or send funds to some other more deserving setup!

Please note I am talking specifically about taking the fight to the enemy. I am well aware of the exceptional achievements and sacrifices made in the CT domain... however, all will be for naught if we don't have a greater strategy to take full benefit of these operational victories.

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## PanzerKiel

R Wing said:


> I only have one question: *what are we doing to raise the cost for India in terms of Baloch terrorism and the illegal occupation/annexation of IOK? *


Dear, seems like you missed multiple news of RAW officers vanishing in different parts of this small world....they have been out of contact for some time now....Allah jaanay kidher chaley gaye hain....  



R Wing said:


> Diplomatic offenses are largely a joke. The world already knows exactly what India is doing (esp Western intel agencies) --- they don't need to be told. Plus, we know where their long-term interests (arms sales, investments to counter China, etc.) Finally, this diplomatic stuff is essentially a political maneuver --- what is the purpose of spec ops trained to operate deep behind enemy lines, intel black ops trained for offensive covert action, deniable proxies, etc., if they're just going to stand around and do nothing against enemies outside our borders?! The entire purpose of a capable offensive intel outfit is that it can give you deniable UW options when conventional action is not really possible. Either such outfits should justify the reason for their existence by demonstrating their capability (and WILL) or send funds to some other more deserving setup!
> 
> Please note I am talking specifically about taking the fight to the enemy. I am well aware of the exceptional achievements and sacrifices made in the CT domain... however, all will be for naught if we don't have a greater strategy to take full benefit of these operational victories.



These things, efforts, both cis and trans-frontier are already in full swing for some time now....problem is that the nature of such actions dictates that they are not highlighted at any forum. Now, once you do something nasty with them, response always comes, sometimes its thwarted, sometimes they manage to get through....

....personally i believe that till the time our civilians are safe, till the time we dont see the situation like a decade ago when a bombing every Friday was a norm.....i'm comfortable with that...of course that means that our LEAs have to then face the brunt and suffer casualties....but then, thats what we are paid for, trained for and thats we'll die for....

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## R Wing

PanzerKiel said:


> Dear, seems like you missed multiple news of RAW officers vanishing in different parts of this small world....they have been out of contact for some time now....Allah jaanay kidher chaley gaye hain....
> 
> 
> 
> These things, efforts, both cis and trans-frontier are already in full swing for some time now....problem is that the nature of such actions dictates that they are not highlighted at any forum. Now, once you do something nasty with them, response always comes, sometimes its thwarted, sometimes they manage to get through....
> 
> ....personally i believe that till the time our civilians are safe, till the time we dont see the situation like a decade ago when a bombing every Friday was a norm.....i'm comfortable with that...of course that means that our LEAs have to then face the brunt and suffer casualties....but then, thats what we are paid for, trained for and thats we'll die for....



I salute your efforts and bravery --- and also the time you have been taking out to respond.

I agree with you. I just think that to keep our civilians safe, the best bet is to go on an (clandestine/covert) offensive the likes of which Pakistan hasn't seen in decades. Of course, it'll take some capacity building --- but also the political will (both at GHQ and the PMO) to actually accept the risk involved in such ops.

FATF and other things are problems to circumvent --- not excuses to not do what's necessary. Hope you get what I'm trying to say.

Stay safe!!! GODSPEED.

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