# The Ugly Truth About Pak Economy: A Brief History



## Mangus Ortus Novem

_*Today is the product of yesterday...and yesterday of the day before.....*_


Todays economic problems are the continum of ugly mismanagement, neglect, indifference and criminal plunder.

Quite amazing, sad even, that Paks are talking about the condition of their economic life without fundamenetal understanding what has happened to them.

What *#CriminalEnterprise* did to them... and still doing.

Let us revisit this ensuing tragedy from day one of Pak State

*First Days of Pakistan:*

The state borrowed from a Pak Banker... since when Pakistan came into being...there was no money and the good Indians withheld money necessary for the functioning of the nascent state. Ghandi struck hunger to have the funds released. Good Ghandi.

*1950s.*

Karachi drove the early industrial growth... rest of the Pak was in time capsule. The trader, merchant, banker and industrial class emerged. 

There was no Pak State policy in this. But rather this growth was driven by individuals and business families. 

Pak State was busy flirting with superpowers and internal politics. Zero policy of any dimension. Rather it was British system running the state.

Political impasse. National Identity responsibility of Radio Pak. No debt to worry about. _Life is good._

*1960s.*

Finally take off. Dams. GDP growth. Industrial Policy and fast development.

Pak became a lender. A case study. Just look at those black & white pics of Chinese PM visiting Karachi. 

With growing economy and mordernising military Pak State began enjoying respect from the so-called Islamic world as well.

Foundation laid for CPEC. Sino-Pak Friendship was sealed after this. KKH. If anyone deserves the credit for CPEC its is the Chinese State and none other.

*1970s.*

BD debacle... didn't create any economic dent because economic and financial fundamentals were right.

*Enter ZAB. *

ZAB thought he was Mao. He thought that strength of Pak State was him. He thought he was Pak State.

In his short time the damage he did to the economy, education and fianancial sector laid the foundation of permanent economic stagnation of Paks and Pak State.

No need to go into details. It is the end results that matter.

*Enter Zia*...the reluctant dictator....to become permanent protector of religion. 

*1980s:*

Afghan jihad. A great commercial enterprise... entire banks were created to finance this 'holy war'. Both whites and browns made loads of money. Yeah... freedom fighters in the Whitehouse... Islam in danger... yeah... let's rent the country and make money....yeah. _Life is good_

Zero economic policy. Living of renting the State and Pak People. *#DieselMullahs* became fatter. 

*Exit America. *

*Zia in Heaven. *

*BB in power because ZAB cann't die.* ZAB is still alive and will remain so for next 30 years.

BB and IPPs. First takeover by *#CriminalEnterprise*.

Please, note that Zia and the following rulers could have built many dams and hydropowers. But Zero State Policy for country or people. Strategic Locatin... yeah. *Let us just rent...why work.*

Here indian deepstate deserves 10 out of 10. They invested heavily in their assets in Pak bureaucracy and political parties to oppose dams. Indians think long term.

*1990s.*

The democracy of NS and BB... *get-rich-quick-scheme*s. Zero policy of any kind.

1992 Money Bill to facilitate money laundering courtesy *#EconomicHitman *appearing on TV these days.

*Mushy Years:*

Despite debt restructuring he did jack. He had every possibility to build dams. He had absolute power and an America behind him. All he did was to remain in power because the reverse-jihad was on in AF again. Strategic Location... yeah... let's rent more.

He was totally surrounded by the *#CriminalEnterprise* . The aid that came went out as quickly.

*Zardari Gifts:*

Borrow as if there is no tomorrow and get the $ out equally quickly. Besides his assignment was to increase debt. ZAB was alive and dandy. 

*Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend. *

The laws and amendments were passed which lay the foundation for creating long term breakup of the country.

TTP got finannced and equipped. Do you remember the Zardari's ambassador?

Gang wars in Karachi. Zero economic growth apart from mafias.

*NS Gifts:*

Borrow at expensive rates and create showpieces of 'development'. Manipulate figures and create artificial growth through increasing imports by keeping PKR strong. 

Charge duties on imports instead of creating a stable tax base. *

Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend.*
*
#EconomicHitman* worked in the background and facilitated the destruction of national public enterprises by this policy. He allowed systematic ballooning loss in POEs. 

In the last few months NS's party introduced policies which will stagnate growth. Besides the figures of NS time were fudgged. _*It was an import driven growth which could only last on borrowing.*_

It was by design. Is there someone here who could prove it to be otherwise? 
*
It was all designed for default. *

TTP on full swing... Pak Armed Forces the target... all out effort to create a Syria. But it failed.

Karachi gang war peaked and then enter Rangers.... Operation still going on. *If Karachi could grow...Pak would.*

Total loss: $250+ Bln in economy and 70+k deaths.

Media blaming the Pak State... Time.... great for Media Cells. Free booze, whores and property. A bag full of crisp dollars... *Jouranlism is Great Business*.

*FATF blacklisting danger.* NS regime did nothing to counter it rather facilitated this. NS regime fulfilled its assignment.

*$100+ bln to become secular and nuke-free..... how much is Pak's external debt now?*

*IK Problems:*

Save Pak from default.

Pay maturing debt. The money Pak Friends lent went to debtors. Foreign Reserves declining. Money going out quickly than coming in.

But planned default is averted. Pak just returned from Abyss.

Pak could have gone directly to IMF but do you know the Conditions?

When a country like Pak imports pears from NZ and cloths worth $2 Bln from abroad... how you are going to have economic growth?
*
PM IK cann't fight #CriminalEnterprise which has total Instuitional Capture. *

SBP is still taking direction from *#EconomicHitman *and so is Fin Ministry.

Even in his party the *#CriminalEnterprise* has deep penetration... electables. 

*IPPs keeping State and People hostage. *Who is behind these IPPs? How much has been paid so far? WB reports 18+ Bln loss in electricity.

This year alone Pak has matured payable debt of $9+ Bln. 

The only 'blame' that could be laid on Fin Minister is that he didn't ban all imports apart from edible oils, feul and absolutely necessary foodstuff for the poor. 

But there are crazy FTAs and WTO to worry about all courtesy of imported democracy. 

Thank you, Condy!

*But still import ban is necessary.*

A country sitting on abundant energy resources cann't even extract them. 

There is already discovered oil and gas in KPK. But LNG was more profitable for the *#CriminalEnterprise*.

*Now would like to know from Paks: What do you think Pak State must do?*


Average money laundering $10+ Bln every year. FATF with a knife on your throat. IMF playing virgin... media cells day and night playing the game.... 
*
Can any other Fin Minister could have done better?

And is that magical 'better'? Borrow and Spend?*

Thinking is hardest job. Paks must learn to think. For once have a policy framework of becoming an economically, socially and financially viable state. Think!


*#BanImportsPak*




.

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## Imran Khan

We need solutions man

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## shah_123

It's easy to write #banimportspak


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## KhalaiMakhlooq

A very good article that is detailed and well presented, thank you author for this information. I must say that Pakistan is due credit where credit is due and that is of course none other than the people who work hard everyday for the secure financial future for themselves and their families. There is also credit due to those amongst the people of Pakistan who drive forward Pakistan's future, specifically those who innovate and those who run small enterprise.

It can be tough living in a financial world where many of the decisions that are vital to the success of an economy are made by faceless people in unknown places, but yet the people see the rewards of these policies.

Although the article may be from a political view it is important to note that Pakistan was always at a financial disadvantage from the start due to loosing major financial centres, established by the British to India. That said, Pakistan's economic decision makers are highly educated and never take decisions without considering the impact to Pakistan and the wider international system. 

There is urgent need for important changes to be made to the core of the way things are in the central bank. This is not the decisions of the bank, but the government of Pakistan who is ultimately responsible for policy change.

That has changed over time, and yes there could have been deep institutional corruption, but no evidence to this day has been brought forward to show us beyond a shadow of the doubt of what was done by who. We can dwell on the past and argue amongst ourselves about what was, or we can look forward to a brighter future towards wide ranging economic reforms.

Pakistan, I believe, is making exciting changes in the light of a new financial world that is shown with the 2025 digital first plan. Until then we can continue to work hard for the financial security, freedom and stability of all of Pakistan.

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## Indus Pakistan

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> _*Today is the product of yesterday...and yesterday of the day before.....*_
> 
> 
> Todays economic problems are the continum of ugly mismanagement, neglect, indifference and criminal plunder.
> 
> Quite amazing, sad even, that Paks are talking about the condition of their economic life without fundamenetal understanding what has happened to them.
> 
> What *#CriminalEnterprise* did to them... and still doing.
> 
> Let us revisit this ensuing tragedy from day one of Pak State
> 
> *First Days of Pakistan:*
> 
> The state borrowed from a Pak Banker... since when Pakistan came into being...there was no money and the good Indians withheld money necessary for the functioning of the nascent state. Ghandi struck hunger to have the funds released. Good Ghandi.
> 
> *1950s.*
> 
> Karachi drove the early industrial growth... rest of the Pak was in time capsule. The trader, merchant, banker and industrial class emerged.
> 
> There was no Pak State policy in this. But rather this growth was driven by individuals and business families.
> 
> Pak State was busy flirting with superpowers and internal politics. Zero policy of any dimension. Rather it was British system running the state.
> 
> Political impasse. National Identity responsibility of Radio Pak. No debt to worry about. _Life is good._
> 
> *1960s.*
> 
> Finally take off. Dams. GDP growth. Industrial Policy and fast development.
> 
> Pak became a lender. A case study. Just look at those black & white pics of Chinese PM visiting Karachi.
> 
> With growing economy and mordernising military Pak State began enjoying respect from the so-called Islamic world as well.
> 
> Foundation laid for CPEC. Sino-Pak Friendship was sealed after this. KKH. If anyone deserves the credit for CPEC its is the Chinese State and none other.
> 
> *1970s.*
> 
> BD debacle... didn't create any economic dent because economic and financial fundamentals were right.
> 
> *Enter ZAB. *
> 
> ZAB thought he was Mao. He thought that strength of Pak State was him. He thought he was Pak State.
> 
> In his short time the damage he did to the economy, education and fianancial sector laid the foundation of permanent economic stagnation of Paks and Pak State.
> 
> No need to go into details. It is the end results that matter.
> 
> *Enter Zia*...the reluctant dictator....to become permanent protector of religion.
> 
> *1980s:*
> 
> Afghan jihad. A great commercial enterprise... entire banks were created to finance this 'holy war'. Both whites and browns made loads of money. Yeah... freedom fighters in the Whitehouse... Islam in danger... yeah... let's rent the country and make money....yeah. _Life is good_
> 
> Zero economic policy. Living of renting the State and Pak People. *#DieselMullahs* became fatter.
> 
> *Exit America. *
> 
> *Zia in Heaven. *
> 
> *BB in power because ZAB cann't die.* ZAB is still alive and will remain so for next 30 years.
> 
> BB and IPPs. First takeover by *#CriminalEnterprise*.
> 
> Please, note that Zia and the following rulers could have built many dams and hydropowers. But Zero State Policy for country or people. Strategic Locatin... yeah. *Let us just rent...why work.*
> 
> Here indian deepstate deserves 10 out of 10. They invested heavily in their assets in Pak bureaucracy and political parties to oppose dams. Indians think long term.
> 
> *1990s.*
> 
> The democracy of NS and BB... *get-rich-quick-scheme*s. Zero policy of any kind.
> 
> 1992 Money Bill to facilitate money laundering courtesy *#EconomicHitman *appearing on TV these days.
> 
> *Mushy Years:*
> 
> Despite debt restructuring he did jack. He had every possibility to build dams. He had absolute power and an America behind him. All he did was to remain in power because the reverse-jihad was on in AF again. Strategic Location... yeah... let's rent more.
> 
> He was totally surrounded by the *#CriminalEnterprise* . The aid that came went out as quickly.
> 
> *Zardari Gifts:*
> 
> Borrow as if there is no tomorrow and get the $ out equally quickly. Besides his assignment was to increase debt. ZAB was alive and dandy.
> 
> *Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend. *
> 
> The laws and amendments were passed which lay the foundation for creating long term breakup of the country.
> 
> TTP got finannced and equipped. Do you remember the Zardari's ambassador?
> 
> Gang wars in Karachi. Zero economic growth apart from mafias.
> 
> *NS Gifts:*
> 
> Borrow at expensive rates and create showpieces of 'development'. Manipulate figures and create artificial growth through increasing imports by keeping PKR strong.
> 
> Charge duties on imports instead of creating a stable tax base.
> *
> Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend.
> 
> #EconomicHitman* worked in the background and facilitated the destruction of national public enterprises by this policy. He allowed systematic ballooning loss in POEs.
> 
> In the last few months NS's party introduced policies which will stagnate growth. Besides the figures of NS time were fudgged. _*It was an import driven growth which could only last on borrowing.*_
> 
> It was by design. Is there someone here who could prove it to be otherwise?
> *
> It was all designed for default. *
> 
> TTP on full swing... Pak Armed Forces the target... all out effort to create a Syria. But it failed.
> 
> Karachi gang war peaked and then enter Rangers.... Operation still going on. *If Karachi could grow...Pak would.*
> 
> Total loss: $250+ Bln in economy and 70+k deaths.
> 
> Media blaming the Pak State... Time.... great for Media Cells. Free booze, whores and property. A bag full of crisp dollars... *Jouranlism is Great Business*.
> 
> *FATF blacklisting danger.* NS regime did nothing to counter it rather facilitated this. NS regime fulfilled its assignment.
> 
> *$100+ bln to become secular and nuke-free..... how much is Pak's external debt now?*
> 
> *IK Problems:*
> 
> Save Pak from default.
> 
> Pay maturing debt. The money Pak Friends lent went to debtors. Foreign Reserves declining. Money going out quickly than coming in.
> 
> But planned default is averted. Pak just returned from Abyss.
> 
> Pak could have gone directly to IMF but do you know the Conditions?
> 
> When a country like Pak imports pears from NZ and cloths worth $2 Bln from abroad... how you are going to have economic growth?
> *
> PM IK cann't fight #CriminalEnterprise which has total Instuitional Capture. *
> 
> SBP is still taking direction from *#EconomicHitman *and so is Fin Ministry.
> 
> Even in his party the *#CriminalEnterprise* has deep penetration... electables.
> 
> *IPPs keeping State and People hostage. *Who is behind these IPPs? How much has been paid so far? WB reports 18+ Bln loss in electricity.
> 
> This year alone Pak has matured payable debt of $9+ Bln.
> 
> The only 'blame' that could be laid on Fin Minister is that he didn't ban all imports apart from edible oils, feul and absolutely necessary foodstuff for the poor.
> 
> But there are crazy FTAs and WTO to worry about all courtesy of imported democracy.
> 
> Thank you, Condy!
> 
> *But still import ban is necessary.*
> 
> A country sitting on abundant energy resources cann't even extract them.
> 
> There is already discovered oil and gas in KPK. But LNG was more profitable for the *#CriminalEnterprise*.
> 
> *Now would like to know from Paks: What do you think Pak State must do?*
> 
> 
> Average money laundering $10+ Bln every year. FATF with a knife on your throat. IMF playing virgin... media cells day and night playing the game....
> *
> Can any other Fin Minister could have done better?
> 
> And is that magical 'better'? Borrow and Spend?*
> 
> Thinking is hardest job. Paks must learn to think. For once have a policy framework of becoming an economically, socially and financially viable state. Think!
> 
> 
> *#BanImportsPak*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


In my estimation the problem with the Pakistani economy is there is almost no wealth creation. It's all about *renting* or *exporting raw* products with *zero value addition*. Has anybody ever thought. What exactly does Pakistan make? For a country of 200 million the answer is nothing. It's all about exporting raw natures produce or renting -


exporting raw agri produce. Rice, cotton etc
exporting workers and living off their rent income
renting Pakistan's geography to great powers like USA
This about sums Pakistan's economy and so called industrialists.All are rent seekers. Non is a entrepreneur

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## Sine Nomine

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> _*Today is the product of yesterday...and yesterday of the day before.....*_
> 
> 
> Todays economic problems are the continum of ugly mismanagement, neglect, indifference and criminal plunder.
> 
> Quite amazing, sad even, that Paks are talking about the condition of their economic life without fundamenetal understanding what has happened to them.
> 
> What *#CriminalEnterprise* did to them... and still doing.
> 
> Let us revisit this ensuing tragedy from day one of Pak State
> 
> *First Days of Pakistan:*
> 
> The state borrowed from a Pak Banker... since when Pakistan came into being...there was no money and the good Indians withheld money necessary for the functioning of the nascent state. Ghandi struck hunger to have the funds released. Good Ghandi.
> 
> *1950s.*
> 
> Karachi drove the early industrial growth... rest of the Pak was in time capsule. The trader, merchant, banker and industrial class emerged.
> 
> There was no Pak State policy in this. But rather this growth was driven by individuals and business families.
> 
> Pak State was busy flirting with superpowers and internal politics. Zero policy of any dimension. Rather it was British system running the state.
> 
> Political impasse. National Identity responsibility of Radio Pak. No debt to worry about. _Life is good._
> 
> *1960s.*
> 
> Finally take off. Dams. GDP growth. Industrial Policy and fast development.
> 
> Pak became a lender. A case study. Just look at those black & white pics of Chinese PM visiting Karachi.
> 
> With growing economy and mordernising military Pak State began enjoying respect from the so-called Islamic world as well.
> 
> Foundation laid for CPEC. Sino-Pak Friendship was sealed after this. KKH. If anyone deserves the credit for CPEC its is the Chinese State and none other.
> 
> *1970s.*
> 
> BD debacle... didn't create any economic dent because economic and financial fundamentals were right.
> 
> *Enter ZAB. *
> 
> ZAB thought he was Mao. He thought that strength of Pak State was him. He thought he was Pak State.
> 
> In his short time the damage he did to the economy, education and fianancial sector laid the foundation of permanent economic stagnation of Paks and Pak State.
> 
> No need to go into details. It is the end results that matter.
> 
> *Enter Zia*...the reluctant dictator....to become permanent protector of religion.
> 
> *1980s:*
> 
> Afghan jihad. A great commercial enterprise... entire banks were created to finance this 'holy war'. Both whites and browns made loads of money. Yeah... freedom fighters in the Whitehouse... Islam in danger... yeah... let's rent the country and make money....yeah. _Life is good_
> 
> Zero economic policy. Living of renting the State and Pak People. *#DieselMullahs* became fatter.
> 
> *Exit America. *
> 
> *Zia in Heaven. *
> 
> *BB in power because ZAB cann't die.* ZAB is still alive and will remain so for next 30 years.
> 
> BB and IPPs. First takeover by *#CriminalEnterprise*.
> 
> Please, note that Zia and the following rulers could have built many dams and hydropowers. But Zero State Policy for country or people. Strategic Locatin... yeah. *Let us just rent...why work.*
> 
> Here indian deepstate deserves 10 out of 10. They invested heavily in their assets in Pak bureaucracy and political parties to oppose dams. Indians think long term.
> 
> *1990s.*
> 
> The democracy of NS and BB... *get-rich-quick-scheme*s. Zero policy of any kind.
> 
> 1992 Money Bill to facilitate money laundering courtesy *#EconomicHitman *appearing on TV these days.
> 
> *Mushy Years:*
> 
> Despite debt restructuring he did jack. He had every possibility to build dams. He had absolute power and an America behind him. All he did was to remain in power because the reverse-jihad was on in AF again. Strategic Location... yeah... let's rent more.
> 
> He was totally surrounded by the *#CriminalEnterprise* . The aid that came went out as quickly.
> 
> *Zardari Gifts:*
> 
> Borrow as if there is no tomorrow and get the $ out equally quickly. Besides his assignment was to increase debt. ZAB was alive and dandy.
> 
> *Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend. *
> 
> The laws and amendments were passed which lay the foundation for creating long term breakup of the country.
> 
> TTP got finannced and equipped. Do you remember the Zardari's ambassador?
> 
> Gang wars in Karachi. Zero economic growth apart from mafias.
> 
> *NS Gifts:*
> 
> Borrow at expensive rates and create showpieces of 'development'. Manipulate figures and create artificial growth through increasing imports by keeping PKR strong.
> 
> Charge duties on imports instead of creating a stable tax base.
> *
> Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend.
> 
> #EconomicHitman* worked in the background and facilitated the destruction of national public enterprises by this policy. He allowed systematic ballooning loss in POEs.
> 
> In the last few months NS's party introduced policies which will stagnate growth. Besides the figures of NS time were fudgged. _*It was an import driven growth which could only last on borrowing.*_
> 
> It was by design. Is there someone here who could prove it to be otherwise?
> *
> It was all designed for default. *
> 
> TTP on full swing... Pak Armed Forces the target... all out effort to create a Syria. But it failed.
> 
> Karachi gang war peaked and then enter Rangers.... Operation still going on. *If Karachi could grow...Pak would.*
> 
> Total loss: $250+ Bln in economy and 70+k deaths.
> 
> Media blaming the Pak State... Time.... great for Media Cells. Free booze, whores and property. A bag full of crisp dollars... *Jouranlism is Great Business*.
> 
> *FATF blacklisting danger.* NS regime did nothing to counter it rather facilitated this. NS regime fulfilled its assignment.
> 
> *$100+ bln to become secular and nuke-free..... how much is Pak's external debt now?*
> 
> *IK Problems:*
> 
> Save Pak from default.
> 
> Pay maturing debt. The money Pak Friends lent went to debtors. Foreign Reserves declining. Money going out quickly than coming in.
> 
> But planned default is averted. Pak just returned from Abyss.
> 
> Pak could have gone directly to IMF but do you know the Conditions?
> 
> When a country like Pak imports pears from NZ and cloths worth $2 Bln from abroad... how you are going to have economic growth?
> *
> PM IK cann't fight #CriminalEnterprise which has total Instuitional Capture. *
> 
> SBP is still taking direction from *#EconomicHitman *and so is Fin Ministry.
> 
> Even in his party the *#CriminalEnterprise* has deep penetration... electables.
> 
> *IPPs keeping State and People hostage. *Who is behind these IPPs? How much has been paid so far? WB reports 18+ Bln loss in electricity.
> 
> This year alone Pak has matured payable debt of $9+ Bln.
> 
> The only 'blame' that could be laid on Fin Minister is that he didn't ban all imports apart from edible oils, feul and absolutely necessary foodstuff for the poor.
> 
> But there are crazy FTAs and WTO to worry about all courtesy of imported democracy.
> 
> Thank you, Condy!
> 
> *But still import ban is necessary.*
> 
> A country sitting on abundant energy resources cann't even extract them.
> 
> There is already discovered oil and gas in KPK. But LNG was more profitable for the *#CriminalEnterprise*.
> 
> *Now would like to know from Paks: What do you think Pak State must do?*
> 
> 
> Average money laundering $10+ Bln every year. FATF with a knife on your throat. IMF playing virgin... media cells day and night playing the game....
> *
> Can any other Fin Minister could have done better?
> 
> And is that magical 'better'? Borrow and Spend?*
> 
> Thinking is hardest job. Paks must learn to think. For once have a policy framework of becoming an economically, socially and financially viable state. Think!
> 
> 
> *#BanImportsPak*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .


Yawan all you wanted to tell us was that,don't have any hope from PTI because past Mafias have penetrated state so much that PTI isn't able to dig those canals of honey and milk what they promised before making Government.Seriously you should have told us all this in start.
IK is man incharge,he should hang all of them and we don't care.Almost all of his party is made up of mess from past.


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## CHACHA"G"

Imran Khan said:


> We need solutions man


Are you ready for solutions ? Are we all ready ? ? ? Most importantly are our state ready ??? And are our importer mafia ready ???
If yes then here are 2 basic and easy to do solutions:

Ban almost all imports ….. Ban mobile , home electronics import as start , tell the campiness to establish plants in Pakistan or bye bye ….. This act will safe you 2+ Billion $$$ ,,,,, Ban all garments imprts , we are textile country and still importing garments and spending almost 2 Billion $$ , this ban will safe an other 2 billion .. Total saving 4 Billion $$$
Tell all the companies to start making (all types) raw material in Pakistan (at least 75%) that will safe billions and this very act will reduce Medicine prices , Pesticide prices and what not!!
Rest build local small and medium industry , start IT industry and many more things , make sure we can get 1+ million Jobs in GCC for Pakistanis and make sure at least 50% of these jobs are B and B+ category ..

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## Indus Pakistan

Syed1. said:


> Karachi still wipes the floor with every other part of Pakistan


I will sum it up as following. The northern part of Pakistan exports workers to be rented to oil rich countries or the west. That brings in income in form of remittances. The agricultural regions of central Pakistan produce the cotton etc which is exported with minimal value addition to generate some foreign exchange. The country is rented out at strategic level to USA or GCC which in fits/starts brings dollar packages. Karachi? Like a guy sat at the only *junction** in town sits there and skins the fat of anything that moves in or out of the country and by using the franchise monopoly to fleece the demand created because of huge foreign remittances like cars, fast food etc. Simple. Get a contract with foreign company and set up a knock off cottage to cater for restricted imports. Like cars. McDs, fridges etc and then act big.

Every single bolt, nut, cup bought or exported by 200 million goes through the only port in Pakistan and you know where that is. Skin the fat aas it moves in and out. Rent seeking at it's best.

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## Sine Nomine

CHACHA"G" said:


> Are you ready for solutions ? Are we all ready ? ? ? Most importantly are our state ready ??? And are our importer mafia ready ???
> If yes then here are 2 basic and easy to do solutions:
> 
> Ban almost all imports ….. Ban mobile , home electronics import as start , tell the campiness to establish plants in Pakistan or bye bye ….. This act will safe you 2+ Billion $$$ ,,,,, Ban all garments imprts , we are textile country and still importing garments and spending almost 2 Billion $$ , this ban will safe an other 2 billion .. Total saving 4 Billion $$$
> Tell all the companies to start making (all types) raw material in Pakistan (at least 75%) that will safe billions and this very act will reduce Medicine prices , Pesticide prices and what not!!
> Rest build local small and medium industry , start IT industry and many more things , make sure we can get 1+ million Jobs in GCC for Pakistanis and make sure at least 50% of these jobs are B and B+ category ..


You should be hired as FM of Pakistan,so you can add a catalyst to our national misery.Don't you think countries from where we are importing would reciprocate?


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Imran Khan said:


> We need solutions man





IK, my man... always liked you. A balance, pragmatic, patriotic man. I like that in a Pak!

Let the thread run...if it doesn't decend into usual uselessness of meaningless comments.... then solutions I shall share as well. And I will tag you, certainly.

What do you think should be solutions?

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## Sine Nomine

Indus Pakistan said:


> I will sum it up as following. The northern part of Pakistan exports workers to be rented to oil rich countries or the west. That brings in income in form of remittances. The agricultural regions of central Pakistan produce the cotton etc which is exported with minimal value addition to generate some foreign exchange. The country is rented out at strategic level to USA or GCC which in fits/starts brings dollar packages. Karachi? Like a guy sat at the only *junction** in town sits there and skins the fat of anything that moves in or out of the country and by using the franchise monopoly to fleece the demand created because of huge foreign remittances like cars, fast food etc. Simple. Get a contract with foreign company and set up a knock off cottage to cater for restricted imports. Like cars. McDs, fridges etc and then act big.
> 
> Every single bolt, nut, cup bought or exported by 200 million goes through the only port in Pakistan and you know where that is. Skin the fat aas it moves in and out. Rent seeking at it's best.


Basically because all import export taxation is mostly done at Karachi Port, and money is deposited in nearest banks to the port.For some of them that makes karachi feeding that whole State.By their logic the teller staff at those bank is mai baap of Pakistan because they are collecting cash.

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## Imran Khan

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> IK, my man... always liked you. A balance, pragmatic, patriotic man. I like that in a Pak!
> 
> Let the thread run...if it doesn't decend into usual uselessness of meaningless comments.... then solutions I shall share as well. And I will tag you, certainly.
> 
> What do you think should be solutions?


Tbh i dont know about economy i want to be fixed only

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## Syed1.

Indus Pakistan said:


> I will sum it up as following. The northern part of Pakistan exports workers to be rented to oil rich countries or the west. That brings in income in form of remittances. The agricultural regions of central Pakistan produce the cotton etc which is exported with minimal value addition to generate some foreign exchange. The country is rented out at strategic level to USA or GCC which in fits/starts brings dollar packages. Karachi? Like a guy sat at the only *junction** in town sits there and skins the fat of anything that moves in or out of the country and by using the franchise monopoly to fleece the demand created because of huge foreign remittances like cars, fast food etc. Simple. Get a contract with foreign company and set up a knock off cottage to cater for restricted imports. Like cars. McDs, fridges etc and then act big.
> 
> Every single bolt, nut, cup bought or exported by 200 million goes through the only port in Pakistan and you know where that is. Skin the fat aas it moves in and out. Rent seeking at it's best.





SITE, Korangi, Landhi and Nooriabad are by far some of the biggest industrial estates in the country. Guess where they are located. 



Paindu people from some pind in Punjab can only do agriculture. Don't bring your jahalat here and go drink your lassi and eat makayi ki roti while Karachi works for the whole of the country.


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## Indus Pakistan

Rent seekers -

*Auto companies that have franchise agreements with multinanationals - Toyota, Suzuki, Hinopak, Honda plus others that fail to export one car abroad but fleece the local customer.
*foreign franchises like McD's, Hardees, PizzaHut etc who produce no wealth but just suck up the foreign remittances and export them abroad.
*dozens of others similiarly involved as 'gate keepers' who fleece the customer because of monopolies.

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## Imran Khan

CHACHA"G" said:


> Are you ready for solutions ? Are we all ready ? ? ? Most importantly are our state ready ??? And are our importer mafia ready ???
> If yes then here are 2 basic and easy to do solutions:
> 
> Ban almost all imports ….. Ban mobile , home electronics import as start , tell the campiness to establish plants in Pakistan or bye bye ….. This act will safe you 2+ Billion $$$ ,,,,, Ban all garments imprts , we are textile country and still importing garments and spending almost 2 Billion $$ , this ban will safe an other 2 billion .. Total saving 4 Billion $$$
> Tell all the companies to start making (all types) raw material in Pakistan (at least 75%) that will safe billions and this very act will reduce Medicine prices , Pesticide prices and what not!!
> Rest build local small and medium industry , start IT industry and many more things , make sure we can get 1+ million Jobs in GCC for Pakistanis and make sure at least 50% of these jobs are B and B+ category ..


This is nothing 4bn or 6bn we need save al.ost 15bn to 20bn


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## maximuswarrior

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> _*Today is the product of yesterday...and yesterday of the day before.....*_
> 
> 
> Todays economic problems are the continum of ugly mismanagement, neglect, indifference and criminal plunder.
> 
> Quite amazing, sad even, that Paks are talking about the condition of their economic life without fundamenetal understanding what has happened to them.
> 
> What *#CriminalEnterprise* did to them... and still doing.
> 
> Let us revisit this ensuing tragedy from day one of Pak State
> 
> *First Days of Pakistan:*
> 
> The state borrowed from a Pak Banker... since when Pakistan came into being...there was no money and the good Indians withheld money necessary for the functioning of the nascent state. Ghandi struck hunger to have the funds released. Good Ghandi.
> 
> *1950s.*
> 
> Karachi drove the early industrial growth... rest of the Pak was in time capsule. The trader, merchant, banker and industrial class emerged.
> 
> There was no Pak State policy in this. But rather this growth was driven by individuals and business families.
> 
> Pak State was busy flirting with superpowers and internal politics. Zero policy of any dimension. Rather it was British system running the state.
> 
> Political impasse. National Identity responsibility of Radio Pak. No debt to worry about. _Life is good._
> 
> *1960s.*
> 
> Finally take off. Dams. GDP growth. Industrial Policy and fast development.
> 
> Pak became a lender. A case study. Just look at those black & white pics of Chinese PM visiting Karachi.
> 
> With growing economy and mordernising military Pak State began enjoying respect from the so-called Islamic world as well.
> 
> Foundation laid for CPEC. Sino-Pak Friendship was sealed after this. KKH. If anyone deserves the credit for CPEC its is the Chinese State and none other.
> 
> *1970s.*
> 
> BD debacle... didn't create any economic dent because economic and financial fundamentals were right.
> 
> *Enter ZAB. *
> 
> ZAB thought he was Mao. He thought that strength of Pak State was him. He thought he was Pak State.
> 
> In his short time the damage he did to the economy, education and fianancial sector laid the foundation of permanent economic stagnation of Paks and Pak State.
> 
> No need to go into details. It is the end results that matter.
> 
> *Enter Zia*...the reluctant dictator....to become permanent protector of religion.
> 
> *1980s:*
> 
> Afghan jihad. A great commercial enterprise... entire banks were created to finance this 'holy war'. Both whites and browns made loads of money. Yeah... freedom fighters in the Whitehouse... Islam in danger... yeah... let's rent the country and make money....yeah. _Life is good_
> 
> Zero economic policy. Living of renting the State and Pak People. *#DieselMullahs* became fatter.
> 
> *Exit America. *
> 
> *Zia in Heaven. *
> 
> *BB in power because ZAB cann't die.* ZAB is still alive and will remain so for next 30 years.
> 
> BB and IPPs. First takeover by *#CriminalEnterprise*.
> 
> Please, note that Zia and the following rulers could have built many dams and hydropowers. But Zero State Policy for country or people. Strategic Locatin... yeah. *Let us just rent...why work.*
> 
> Here indian deepstate deserves 10 out of 10. They invested heavily in their assets in Pak bureaucracy and political parties to oppose dams. Indians think long term.
> 
> *1990s.*
> 
> The democracy of NS and BB... *get-rich-quick-scheme*s. Zero policy of any kind.
> 
> 1992 Money Bill to facilitate money laundering courtesy *#EconomicHitman *appearing on TV these days.
> 
> *Mushy Years:*
> 
> Despite debt restructuring he did jack. He had every possibility to build dams. He had absolute power and an America behind him. All he did was to remain in power because the reverse-jihad was on in AF again. Strategic Location... yeah... let's rent more.
> 
> He was totally surrounded by the *#CriminalEnterprise* . The aid that came went out as quickly.
> 
> *Zardari Gifts:*
> 
> Borrow as if there is no tomorrow and get the $ out equally quickly. Besides his assignment was to increase debt. ZAB was alive and dandy.
> 
> *Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend. *
> 
> The laws and amendments were passed which lay the foundation for creating long term breakup of the country.
> 
> TTP got finannced and equipped. Do you remember the Zardari's ambassador?
> 
> Gang wars in Karachi. Zero economic growth apart from mafias.
> 
> *NS Gifts:*
> 
> Borrow at expensive rates and create showpieces of 'development'. Manipulate figures and create artificial growth through increasing imports by keeping PKR strong.
> 
> Charge duties on imports instead of creating a stable tax base.
> *
> Zero Reforms. Borrow and spend. Borrow and spend.
> 
> #EconomicHitman* worked in the background and facilitated the destruction of national public enterprises by this policy. He allowed systematic ballooning loss in POEs.
> 
> In the last few months NS's party introduced policies which will stagnate growth. Besides the figures of NS time were fudgged. _*It was an import driven growth which could only last on borrowing.*_
> 
> It was by design. Is there someone here who could prove it to be otherwise?
> *
> It was all designed for default. *
> 
> TTP on full swing... Pak Armed Forces the target... all out effort to create a Syria. But it failed.
> 
> Karachi gang war peaked and then enter Rangers.... Operation still going on. *If Karachi could grow...Pak would.*
> 
> Total loss: $250+ Bln in economy and 70+k deaths.
> 
> Media blaming the Pak State... Time.... great for Media Cells. Free booze, whores and property. A bag full of crisp dollars... *Jouranlism is Great Business*.
> 
> *FATF blacklisting danger.* NS regime did nothing to counter it rather facilitated this. NS regime fulfilled its assignment.
> 
> *$100+ bln to become secular and nuke-free..... how much is Pak's external debt now?*
> 
> *IK Problems:*
> 
> Save Pak from default.
> 
> Pay maturing debt. The money Pak Friends lent went to debtors. Foreign Reserves declining. Money going out quickly than coming in.
> 
> But planned default is averted. Pak just returned from Abyss.
> 
> Pak could have gone directly to IMF but do you know the Conditions?
> 
> When a country like Pak imports pears from NZ and cloths worth $2 Bln from abroad... how you are going to have economic growth?
> *
> PM IK cann't fight #CriminalEnterprise which has total Instuitional Capture. *
> 
> SBP is still taking direction from *#EconomicHitman *and so is Fin Ministry.
> 
> Even in his party the *#CriminalEnterprise* has deep penetration... electables.
> 
> *IPPs keeping State and People hostage. *Who is behind these IPPs? How much has been paid so far? WB reports 18+ Bln loss in electricity.
> 
> This year alone Pak has matured payable debt of $9+ Bln.
> 
> The only 'blame' that could be laid on Fin Minister is that he didn't ban all imports apart from edible oils, feul and absolutely necessary foodstuff for the poor.
> 
> But there are crazy FTAs and WTO to worry about all courtesy of imported democracy.
> 
> Thank you, Condy!
> 
> *But still import ban is necessary.*
> 
> A country sitting on abundant energy resources cann't even extract them.
> 
> There is already discovered oil and gas in KPK. But LNG was more profitable for the *#CriminalEnterprise*.
> 
> *Now would like to know from Paks: What do you think Pak State must do?*
> 
> 
> Average money laundering $10+ Bln every year. FATF with a knife on your throat. IMF playing virgin... media cells day and night playing the game....
> *
> Can any other Fin Minister could have done better?
> 
> And is that magical 'better'? Borrow and Spend?*
> 
> Thinking is hardest job. Paks must learn to think. For once have a policy framework of becoming an economically, socially and financially viable state. Think!
> 
> 
> *#BanImportsPak*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .



*These people who downplay or out rightly deny the facts are usually beneficiaries of the corrupt system. *They have been benefiting and enriching themselves through corruption. They are never going to support anyone who talks about accountability and justice.

Such beneficiaries exist everywhere. I have some relatives who support crooks in Pakistani politics because they benefit. You have some that only care about their own street, neighborhood or city. There are various categories.

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## Indus Pakistan

Syed1. said:


> SITE, Korangi, Landhi and Nooriabad


What did I say about slicing the fat of everything that moves in and out of a 200 million country? they are merely inefficient rent seekers that live off the poor Pakistani customers who have no other alternatives. Instead of bragging about them please tell me *what* exactly do they export and what is the *quanta* of value addition. Flogging mangos or sugar or cotton grown on farms is not value addition. Please do enumerate.

For instance we know Dhaka and Chittagong have huge garmant plants. But this is not just brags. We know they export over $20 billion of garmants to the world. I know. Everytime I go shopping for cloths I can't avoid "Made In Bangla tags".

So please tell me what and how much in $$$ is being exported from this 'powerhouse' sites you mentioned? On closer inspection you will see it is just rent seeking.

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## Syed1.

Indus Pakistan said:


> What did I say about slicing the fat of everything that moves in and out of a 200 million country? they are merely inefficient rent seekers that live off the poor Pakistani customers who have no other alternatives. Instead of bragging about them please tell me *what* exactly do they export and what is the *quanta* of value addition. Flogging mangos or sugar or cotton grown on farms is not value addition. Please do enumerate.
> 
> For instance we know Dhaka and Chittagong have huge garmant plants. But this is not just brags. We know they export over $20 billion of garmants to the world. I know. Everytime I go shopping for cloths I can't avoid "Made In Bangla tags".
> 
> So please tell me what and how much in $$$ is being exported from this 'powerhouse' sites you mentioned? On closer inspection you will see it is just rent seeking.




Rent seekers hahahaha


Showing your jahalat. 33 of the 50 biggest tax payers are from Karachi. Go back to eating your donkey.


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## Indus Pakistan

*Caveat:*

The only city I think that is *not* reliant on rent seeking or exporting raw agr produce and deserves recognition is ..... Sialkot [no I am not from Sialkot] because you actually see products from this city across the world and they are competing against Chinese, Indian, Malay, Indonesian products like sports goods, leather, surgical equipment. I can go on Alibaba right now and get bombarded by dozens of Sialkot based companies all screaming to export their goods on the international markets. This needs to be replicated across Pakistan. And funny thing is Sialkot is teribly located for exports. Thousand miles from port and hundreds miles from airport although they have built their own private airport. This is real value addition and entrepreneaurship. Not rent seeking.

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## Sine Nomine

Syed1. said:


> SITE, Korangi, Landhi and Nooriabad are by far some of the biggest industrial estates in the country. Guess where they are located.


How many shipe,fighter jets,turbines,air planes,heavy machinery,chemicals from these areas are exported annually?


Syed1. said:


> Paindu people from some pind in Punjab can only do agriculture. Don't bring your jahalat here and go drink your lassi and eat makayi ki roti while Karachi works for the whole of the country.


Being paindu and jahil is still better then being Baba ladla,Uzair baloach,Zardari,Rao Anwar and many more peoples,these are products from karachi, only naming them can make human race ashamed.
For past 3 decades karachi has more acted like curse to Pakistan,while Punjab has manged to produce only noora,Karachi has manged to produce Altaf,Bhutto and Zardari.



Indus Pakistan said:


> *Caveat:*
> 
> The only city I think that is *not* reliant on rent seeking or exporting raw agr produce and deserves recognition is ..... Sialkot [no I am not from Sialkot] because you actually see products from this city across the world and they are competing against Chinese, Indian, Malay, Indonesian products like sports goods, leather, surgical equipment. I can go on Alibaba right now and get bombarded by dozens of Sialkot based companies all screaming to export their goods on the international markets. This needs to be replicated across Pakistan. And funny thing is Sialkot is teribly located for exports. Thousand miles from port and hundreds miles from airport although they have built their own private airport. This is real value addition and entrepreneaurship. Not rent seeking.


They make more things with their bare hands then whole Pakistan combined.


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## Awan68

Syed1. said:


> Rent seekers hahahaha
> 
> 
> Showing your jahalat. 33 of the 50 biggest tax payers are from Karachi. Go back to eating your donkey.


Karachi was destroyed by those who lived in karachi, no one else. Stop terming other provinces as donkeys eaters etc, many karachites 5 yrs ago were ghar ke londis of RAW. Dont go down this road where we start a blame game between provinces.

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## N.Siddiqui

Indus Pakistan said:


> *Caveat:*
> 
> The only city I think that is *not* reliant on rent seeking or exporting raw agr produce and deserves recognition is ..... Sialkot [no I am not from Sialkot] because you actually see products from this city across the world and they are competing against Chinese, Indian, Malay, Indonesian products like sports goods, leather, surgical equipment. I can go on Alibaba right now and get bombarded by dozens of Sialkot based companies all screaming to export their goods on the international markets. This needs to be replicated across Pakistan. And funny thing is Sialkot is teribly located for exports. Thousand miles from port and hundreds miles from airport although they have built their own private airport. This is real value addition and entrepreneaurship. Not rent seeking.




And there own airline SIAL air, and a big dry port all without any govt. support.


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## Indus Pakistan

Syed1. said:


> 33 of the 50 biggest tax payers are from Karachi.


That's because the biggest rent seekers are based there with HQ's. Karachi Port for instance handles entire nations exp/imps. Othes are rent seeking companies that flogs a foreign franchised products like toothpaste across the entire 200 million market will show it';s tax address in Karachi. On the other hand the *mother of all tax sucking entities* like PIA, PS and others are also based in Karachi. You will ignore to mention them.



Awan68 said:


> karachites 5 yrs ago were ghar ke londis of RAW


Something which is matter of record but funnily enough has recieved *minimal *coverage [swept under the carpet] whereas PTM gets the full media attention.

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## Syed1.

Awan68 said:


> Karachi was destroyed by those who lived in karachi, no one else. Stop terming other provinces as donkeys eaters etc, many karachites 5 yrs ago were ghar ke londis of RAW. Dont go down this road where we start a blame game between provinces.


I didn't start it.... that ch*tiya @Indus Pakistan started bad mouthing Karachi for no reason. Probably some Karachite had his way with him.

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## Reddington

Imran Khan said:


> We need solutions man


1) Brutal Accountability
2) Massive Massive Massive Industrialization

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## Khafee

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yeh dream on. I have seen most of you mutts. Barely make it 5 ft and either matchsticks or fat blobs. And if your so tough show it to the Hindu's that you ran way from sliding on your own self induced diarrhoea. No differant from the typical Indians I disparage. Having a circumcision has not made you 'he men'.


@WebMaster @Horus @The Eagle @Dubious This guy's racism is out of control

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## VCheng

Reddington said:


> 1) Brutal Accountability
> 2) Massive Massive Massive Industrialization



1) Who will do that?

2) Where would the capital come from?


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## Reddington

VCheng said:


> 1) Who will do that?
> 
> 2) Where would the capital come from?


Where there is a will, there is a way.


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## VCheng

Reddington said:


> Where there is a will, there is a way.



Well, is there a will to do so? PMIK has it, I am sure, so where is the way?


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## Awan68

Indus Pakistan said:


> Yeh dream on. I have seen most of you mutts. Barely make it 5 ft and either matchsticks or fat blobs. And if your so tough show it to the Hindu's that you ran way from sliding on your own self induced diarrhoea. No differant from the typical Indians I disparage. Having a circumcision has not made you 'he men'.


U are the most ugly human bieng i have ever encountered in my life, i can see right through u, living in the west has developed a deep seated inferiority complex in u which u try to avert by indulging in racism to feel power or as they say get back in control.



Syed1. said:


> Hahaha the paindu gets angrier
> 
> 
> 
> The pilot who shot down Abhinandan was a Karachiite. Much like some Karachite had his instrument up your ***.


Ignore this fck, it is his job to start an ethno racist or anti islam cuckoo fight in every thread. If u indulge him and start abusing people of other provinces he wins, provinces are just administrative lines, we are one, united under a similar ideology, we are Pakistanis.

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## Syed1.

Awan68 said:


> U are the most ugly human bieng i have ever encountered in my life, i can see right through u, living in the west has developed a deep seated inferiority complex in u which u try to avert by indulging in racism to feel power or as they say get back in control.
> 
> 
> Ignore this fck, it is his job to start an ethno racist or anti islam cuckoo fight in every thread. If u indulge him and start abusing people of other provinces he wins, provinces are just administrative lines, we are one, united under a similar ideology, we are Pakistanis.


Ok I'm sorry for being sucked into it and saying bad about other people.

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## Reddington

VCheng said:


> PMIK has it


If he had a will, then where are billions of dollars recovered. Anyways that's beside the point. I gave a solution. Now who will do it or how it will be done. It's a different matter. 
The present corrupt and inept leaders (from all political parties) don't have the will and neither the capacity to do such a thing.

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## Awan68

Syed1. said:


> Ok I'm sorry for being sucked into it and saying bad about other people.


No worries mate, u are a better man for acknowledging it.

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## VCheng

Reddington said:


> If he had a will, then where are billions of dollars recovered. Anyways that's beside the point. I gave a solution. Now who will do it or how it will be done. It's a different matter.
> The present corrupt and inept leaders (from all political parties) don't have the will and neither the capacity to do such a thing.



A solution that has no realistic way of ever being implemented is not really a solution, is it?


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## Reddington

VCheng said:


> A solution that has no realistic way of ever being implemented is not really a solution, is it?


What's your solution then??


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## Khafee

VCheng said:


> 1) Who will do that?
> 
> 2) Where would the capital come from?


Fix your accountability issues, Capital will come IA.

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## VCheng

Reddington said:


> What's your solution then??



As I have said many times before, we need to wait for PMIK's decision to go to the IMF or not, and then see what solutions remain possible in either scenario. It will likely not be easy with lots of hardship for Pakistanis.


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## Khafee

VCheng said:


> A solution that has no realistic way of ever being implemented is not really a solution, is it?


BC, I've been seeing you cry for ages, just give up and go look after the drunk. He is more important than an online forum.

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## Reddington

VCheng said:


> As I have said many times before, we need to wait for PMIK's decision to go to the IMF or not, and then see what solutions remain possible in either scenario. It will likely not be easy with lots of hardship for Pakistanis.



If he went for IMF, then IK should say goodbye to Naya Pakistan. Forget about 10 million jobs and 5 million houses. Economy would go into recession. Growth rate would fall.

It would be very very disastrous for the whole country.

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## zulu

Dada aap bhii ???  chalain lets try to calm things down and bring solution which is more imp as whats the problem everyone knows and for many many years (btw also from KHI and doing business for many years so still anyone want to start pulling legs of ""KHI walas "" don't include my name  because i definitely live in khi but called and consider myself only Pakistani dont need any other identity 


Khafee said:


> BC, I've been seeing you cry for ages, just give up and go look after the drunk. He is more important than an online forum.

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## VCheng

Reddington said:


> If he went for IMF, then IK should say goodbye to Naya Pakistan. Forget about 10 million jobs and 5 million houses. Economy would go into recession. Growth rate would fall.
> 
> It would be very very disastrous for the whole country.



I am sure he will take the decision he feels is the best for Pakistan, whatever he decides.


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

@Khafee old friend, please, tell our Pak Friends... how in the last 20 years Pak State systematically ignored ME/GCC.

When you are at it...kindly also inform them that in the labour market... there was Zero policy for having Paks get employed in GCC. 

And then some say that Arabs prefer india! 

$50 Bln indians send back home... about the same as Indian defence budget.... 

Anyways, as we discussed in 2017... the overall Strategic Framework is emerging. IK is doing the right things on KSA-UAE front.

But then Persians come in to spoil the party every single time. 

Anyhow, let us keep private what needs to remain so.... 

Every time KSA-UAE combine came to invest in Pak #CriminalEnterprise asked for such a big cut that they said...

IK gov is doing the right things but it is going to take time.... IK's One Window Operation for FDI is good thing. Though not totally up and running yet....

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## Haroon Baloch

That is very well put!

In the early days Pakistan & India were agriculture country. Our main source of money was exporting commodities. When the world was advancing and it was time for the shift on something other than Agriculture. We didn't. India shifted from Agriculture to IT & we completely missed the digitization.

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## zulu

@Mangus Ortus Novem one more of your thread gown to drain again  should we start discussing possible solutions ??? @Reddington what u say?but must warn u no one going to notices as already on 4th page and here new political storm raising no body going to think about our given solutions what u say

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## VCheng

Haroon Baloch said:


> That is very well put!
> 
> In the early days Pakistan & India were agriculture country. Our main source of money was exporting commodities. When the world was advancing and it was time for the shift on something other than Agriculture. We didn't. India shifted from Agriculture to IT & we completely missed the digitization.



It is never to too late to seek out newer emerging technologies.


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## 313ghazi

There are multiple solutions, here are a few of my own. 

1. Government should put extremely high duty on any imports which are non necessary. This should be done in a phased approached linked up to point 2. 

2. Govt should setup an office dedicated to helping develop local companies. It should focus on developing businesses;
- which grow domestic versions of stuff we import. For example, cheese and tea. We should be replacing imports with local versions. 
- Which we have the biggest return for the least investment
- Which we have a population currently skilled for

3. Govt should offer economic incentives for households and SME's to use solar panels for energy. We need a national push towards moving away from fossil fuels wherever possible. If we can make 50% of our electricity which we currently make through burning oil, via the sun and wind, it's 50% less oil imported. 

4. Govt should invest heavily in technical colleges working alongside industry to train youth to learn skills the market needs. 

5. Govt should try to ensure essential items are available on the market at minimal cost. In my mind these are food, pharmaceuticals, energy, transport, housing. The way to do this is to have state owned, privately managed enterprises generating these things from end to end, ie raw product to manufacturing to market. China's state and German state have excellent examples of these enterprises. In our case we should run them to make low profits but make cheap goods available to the consumer domestically. 

6. Any market the government intervenes in with step 5 with have local manufacturers up in arms. Govt should help each and every local business affected alter their business so that the product is export quality and help them export more of their produce. 

The main crux of things is;

1. Get to work and start making money and paying your taxes.
2. Stop spending money on things you don't need to spend money on.
3. State to intervene in the market directly through private-public joint ventures to keep the cost of essentials low.
4. State to actively support private companies to help improve standards and get produce exported. 

===

I personally think there is a market for people to do these things for themselves. There is a joke about engineers in Pakistan having no jobs, how about 1000 people, or 10,000 people enter a co-op, invest their resources and setup a plant to locally manufacture solar panels and everything else required to provide solar energy to a household? It requires trust - maybe a go-fund me page? or a govt mechanism to help protect that investment and make sure it's used as intended?

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## Khafee

313ghazi said:


> There are multiple solutions, here are a few of my own.
> 
> 1. Government should put extremely high duty on any imports which are non necessary. This should be done in a phased approached linked up to point 2.
> 
> 2. Govt should setup an office dedicated to helping develop local companies. It should focus on developing businesses;
> - which grow domestic versions of stuff we import. For example, cheese and tea. We should be replacing imports with local versions.
> - Which we have the biggest return for the least investment
> - Which we have a population currently skilled for
> 
> 3. Govt should offer economic incentives for households and SME's to use solar panels for energy. We need a national push towards moving away from fossil fuels wherever possible. If we can make 50% of our electricity which we currently make through burning oil, via the sun and wind, it's 50% less oil imported.
> 
> 4. Govt should invest heavily in technical colleges working alongside industry to train youth to learn skills the market needs.
> 
> 5. Govt should try to ensure essential items are available on the market at minimal cost. In my mind these are food, pharmaceuticals, energy, transport, housing. The way to do this is to have state owned, privately managed enterprises generating these things from end to end, ie raw product to manufacturing to market. China's state and German state have excellent examples of these enterprises. In our case we should run them to make low profits but make cheap goods available to the consumer domestically.
> 
> 6. Any market the government intervenes in with step 5 with have local manufacturers up in arms. Govt should help each and every local business affected alter their business so that the product is export quality and help them export more of their produce.
> 
> The main crux of things is;
> 
> 1. Get to work and start making money and paying your taxes.
> 2. Stop spending money on things you don't need to spend money on.
> 3. State to intervene in the market directly through private-public joint ventures to keep the cost of essentials low.
> 4. State to actively support private companies to help improve standards and get produce exported.
> 
> ===
> 
> I personally think there is a market for people to do these things for themselves. There is a joke about engineers in Pakistan having no jobs, how about 1000 people, or 10,000 people enter a co-op, invest their resources and setup a plant to locally manufacture solar panels and everything else required to provide solar energy to a household? It requires trust - maybe a go-fund me page? or a govt mechanism to help protect that investment and make sure it's used as intended?



Govt should look into collecting more tax from the rich. e.g. There was a recent law, that weddings have to shut down by 11pm. 

After 11pm, cops show up, collect bribe, wedding goes on till 1~2am. Solution, let people get a permit, govt wins, cops loose. 

A little thinking outside the box is needed.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

313ghazi said:


> There are multiple solutions, here are a few of my own.
> 
> 1. Government should put extremely high duty on any imports which are non necessary. This should be done in a phased approached linked up to point 2.
> 
> 2. Govt should setup an office dedicated to helping develop local companies. It should focus on developing businesses;
> - which grow domestic versions of stuff we import. For example, cheese and tea. We should be replacing imports with local versions.
> - Which we have the biggest return for the least investment
> - Which we have a population currently skilled for
> 
> 3. Govt should offer economic incentives for households and SME's to use solar panels for energy. We need a national push towards moving away from fossil fuels wherever possible. If we can make 50% of our electricity which we currently make through burning oil, via the sun and wind, it's 50% less oil imported.
> 
> 4. Govt should invest heavily in technical colleges working alongside industry to train youth to learn skills the market needs.
> 
> 5. Govt should try to ensure essential items are available on the market at minimal cost. In my mind these are food, pharmaceuticals, energy, transport, housing. The way to do this is to have state owned, privately managed enterprises generating these things from end to end, ie raw product to manufacturing to market. China's state and German state have excellent examples of these enterprises. In our case we should run them to make low profits but make cheap goods available to the consumer domestically.
> 
> 6. Any market the government intervenes in with step 5 with have local manufacturers up in arms. Govt should help each and every local business affected alter their business so that the product is export quality and help them export more of their produce.
> 
> The main crux of things is;
> 
> 1. Get to work and start making money and paying your taxes.
> 2. Stop spending money on things you don't need to spend money on.
> 3. State to intervene in the market directly through private-public joint ventures to keep the cost of essentials low.
> 4. State to actively support private companies to help improve standards and get produce exported.
> 
> ===
> 
> I personally think there is a market for people to do these things for themselves. There is a joke about engineers in Pakistan having no jobs, how about 1000 people, or 10,000 people enter a co-op, invest their resources and setup a plant to locally manufacture solar panels and everything else required to provide solar energy to a household? It requires trust - maybe a go-fund me page? or a govt mechanism to help protect that investment and make sure it's used as intended?


.



My friend,

A very good and structured attempt towards finding solution.

If I may ask you to read your solution and critically analyse it once again. What is the essential to implement such a plan?

Timeframe? Required resources? Required Development Model?

Somehow I know you will dig deeper....

Regards,

Mangus

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## Dubious

*People KINDLY stick to the topic, discuss the topic NOT other HUMAN BEINGS!*

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## zulu

@CHACHA"G" Import is an necessary evil its also generates revenue for govt (on many stages ) but importing luxury items should be totally banned (until we avoid such huge crisis ) we cant banned import of imp machineries for manufacturing but about other things you are right
2)Most of our taxes come from service industry and on other hand our manufacturing and producing sectors are shrinking which going to affect service industries too
3)govt should encourage(and trying as many schemes offered its up to others to avail where it can )
4)we should focus on Agri (lots of schemes offered here too by govt esp in Punjab )its the field of future not only we will get food security its can also become best export opportunity.There is reason an AUstralian company planning to put 2 billion dollars in agri.Trick is we should not lease our lands to others but sale all products by ourselves otherwise no good (nalaiqoo khud bhi kuch kar sakty hu as side business near yr villages economy ka bhi bhala plus khud kuch extra income bhi aaye gi sath 10 logon ko job)
5)we should start focusing establishing small industries lots of scope let say solar panels huge demand but here very few assembling units mostly import from china its not an rocket science (worked both on it and wind myself )
There are still lots of points to discussed and easy do ables no point only describing problems but better trying to find solutions better make an permanent thread i tried(and failed ) in many fields so any info/help i can share my pleasure.That post for my respected fellow members @Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @Reddington and @CHACHA"G" who like me trying to discuss/find ways to avoid this crisis

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## zeeshe100

Pakistan k buray din zia ul haq k anay k baad shoro howaye


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## Khafee

zulu said:


> @CHACHA"G" Import is an necessary evil its also generates revenue for govt (on many stages ) but importing luxury items should be totally banned (until we avoid such huge crisis ) we cant banned import of imp machineries for manufacturing but about other things you are right
> 2)Most of our taxes come from service industry and on other hand our manufacturing and producing sectors are shrinking which going to affect service industries too
> 3)govt should encourage(and trying as many schemes offered its up to others to avail where it can )
> 4)we should focus on Agri (lots of schemes offered here too by govt esp in Punjab )its the field of future not only we will get food security its can also become best export opportunity.There is reason an AUstralian company planning to put 2 billion dollars in agri.Trick is we should not lease our lands to others but sale all products by ourselves otherwise no good (nalaiqoo khud bhi kuch kar sakty hu as side business near yr villages economy ka bhi bhala plus khud kuch extra income bhi aaye gi sath 10 logon ko job)
> 5)we should start focusing establishing small industries lots of scope let say solar panels huge demand but here very few assembling units mostly import from china its not an rocket science (worked both on it and wind myself )
> There are still lots of points to discussed and easy do ables no point only describing problems but better trying to find solutions better make an permanent thread i tried(and failed ) in many fields so any info/help i can share my pleasure.That post for my respected fellow members @Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @Reddington and @CHACHA"G" who like me trying to discuss/find ways to avoid this crisis



Imports are also needed, since some items are well under Intl benchmarks. Banning imports just gives local producers an excuse not to improve - A GOOD e.g. Cheese!

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## Dubious

313ghazi said:


> There are multiple solutions, here are a few of my own.
> 
> 1. Government should put extremely high duty on any imports which are non necessary. This should be done in a phased approached linked up to point 2.
> 
> 2. Govt should setup an office dedicated to helping develop local companies. It should focus on developing businesses;
> - which grow domestic versions of stuff we import. For example, cheese and tea. We should be replacing imports with local versions.
> - Which we have the biggest return for the least investment
> - Which we have a population currently skilled for
> 
> 3. Govt should offer economic incentives for households and SME's to use solar panels for energy. We need a national push towards moving away from fossil fuels wherever possible. If we can make 50% of our electricity which we currently make through burning oil, via the sun and wind, it's 50% less oil imported.
> 
> 4. Govt should invest heavily in technical colleges working alongside industry to train youth to learn skills the market needs.
> 
> 5. Govt should try to ensure essential items are available on the market at minimal cost. In my mind these are food, pharmaceuticals, energy, transport, housing. The way to do this is to have state owned, privately managed enterprises generating these things from end to end, ie raw product to manufacturing to market. China's state and German state have excellent examples of these enterprises. In our case we should run them to make low profits but make cheap goods available to the consumer domestically.
> 
> 6. Any market the government intervenes in with step 5 with have local manufacturers up in arms. Govt should help each and every local business affected alter their business so that the product is export quality and help them export more of their produce.
> 
> The main crux of things is;
> 
> 1. Get to work and start making money and paying your taxes.
> 2. Stop spending money on things you don't need to spend money on.
> 3. State to intervene in the market directly through private-public joint ventures to keep the cost of essentials low.
> 4. State to actively support private companies to help improve standards and get produce exported.
> 
> ===
> 
> I personally think there is a market for people to do these things for themselves. There is a joke about engineers in Pakistan having no jobs, how about 1000 people, or 10,000 people enter a co-op, invest their resources and setup a plant to locally manufacture solar panels and everything else required to provide solar energy to a household? It requires trust - maybe a go-fund me page? or a govt mechanism to help protect that investment and make sure it's used as intended?


Basically we need to put it into people's minds that working and getting HALAL ka paisa is better than sitting and being fed by others/ govt! 
A family friend was just having this discussion this afternoon...that SOME people are so used to free food/ begging it is wasting our resources [the human capital is our resource]

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## zulu

So true but about cheese its also an good field to explore in last few years lots of small setup established (req very less capital ) and its demand on increase due to consumption as i said better to make small cottage/small industries 


Khafee said:


> Imports are also needed, since some items are well under Intl benchmarks. Banning imports just gives local producers an excuse not to improve - A GOOD e.g. Cheese!

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## Shah01

Can the mods clean this thread please. So a constructive discussion can be started on solutions rather than complaining about the ills with society and politics. I could write something about agriculture and how to improve as well as related industry. @313ghazi good attempt.

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> *Basically we need to put it into people's minds that working and getting HALAL ka paisa is better than sitting and being fed by others/ govt! *
> A family friend was just having this discussion this afternoon...that SOME people are so used to free food/ begging it is wasting our resources [the human capital is our resource]



Remember the time when currency notes had _"rizq-e-halal ain ibadat hai"_ written on them?

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## Khafee

zeeshe100 said:


> Pakistan k buray din zia ul haq k anay k baad shoro howaye


He built the modern military industrial complex, and he wasn't the megalomaniac, who nationalized right, left and center, and sent the economy into a downward spiral.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

zulu said:


> @CHACHA"G" Import is an necessary evil its also generates revenue for govt (on many stages ) but importing luxury items should be totally banned (until we avoid such huge crisis ) we cant banned import of imp machineries for manufacturing but about other things you are right
> 2)Most of our taxes come from service industry and on other hand our manufacturing and producing sectors are shrinking which going to affect service industries too
> 3)govt should encourage(and trying as many schemes offered its up to others to avail where it can )
> 4)we should focus on Agri (lots of schemes offered here too by govt esp in Punjab )its the field of future not only we will get food security its can also become best export opportunity.There is reason an AUstralian company planning to put 2 billion dollars in agri.Trick is we should not lease our lands to others but sale all products by ourselves otherwise no good (nalaiqoo khud bhi kuch kar sakty hu as side business near yr villages economy ka bhi bhala plus khud kuch extra income bhi aaye gi sath 10 logon ko job)
> 5)we should start focusing establishing small industries lots of scope let say solar panels huge demand but here very few assembling units mostly import from china its not an rocket science (worked both on it and wind myself )
> There are still lots of points to discussed and easy do ables no point only describing problems but better trying to find solutions better make an permanent thread i tried(and failed ) in many fields so any info/help i can share my pleasure.That post for my respected fellow members @Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @Reddington and @CHACHA"G" who like me trying to discuss/find ways to avoid this crisis


.


My friend,

Wihtout Problem Definition entering Solution Space is futile excercise. 

As I tried to narrate in my first post the problem with Pak Economy is not single point based. But rather multi layers/dimmensional. Hence the solutions are going to be equally multivectored.

I guess the 'discussion' / comments so far represent one essential problem. What do you guys think it is?

A sticky thread about Economic Solutions is @waz or other mods privilige.

Let us see what our Young Paks come up with solutions... let us ourselves be educated with their thinking.

Mangus

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## Khafee

VCheng said:


> Remember the time when currency notes had _"rizq-e-halal ain ibadat hai"_ written on them?


That was a bad thing?

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Remember the time when currency notes had _"rizq-e-halal ain ibadat hai"_ written on them?


I am not sure if that ever was a thing...I aint that old

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## zulu

What an golden words here u know rarely asked getting question about new business and setup even by those who saw me working in diff fields but most question people asked me """ Tell us about property or stock (my old job ) but nobody cares to explore and listen to these.Seems they all want to sit and invest like BTK (some friends even invest over 20 crores but rejected when i said buy some Agri land near gharoo its cheap and future potential as 3 lakh/acre but nooooooooooo they dont want to work on it nobody wants it 


Dubious said:


> Basically we need to put it into people's minds that working and getting HALAL ka paisa is better than sitting and being fed by others/ govt!
> A family friend was just having this discussion this afternoon...that SOME people are so used to free food/ begging it is wasting our resources [the human capital is our resource]

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> I am not sure if that ever was a thing...I aint that old



Trust me, it was, and a good idea, but it was dropped. I wonder why, because your suggestion above is a good one and this was a great way to make that point with every transaction.

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## Dubious

zulu said:


> What an golden words here u know rarely asked getting question about new business and setup even by those who saw me working in diff fields but most question people asked me """ Tell us about property or stock (my old job ) but nobody cares to explore and listen to these.Seems they all want to sit and invest like BTK (some friends even invest over 20 crores but rejected when i said buy some Agri land near gharoo its cheap and future potential as 3 lakh/acre but nooooooooooo they dont want to work on it nobody wants it


Well it didnt happen overnight...I noticed it happening slowly..

People wanting to "look" and "act" elite like by hook or by crook = taking rishwat, borrowing money, taking loans and what not
Slowly even forgetting the difference between halal and haraam kamai and eventually just want money to fall from heaven....



VCheng said:


> Trust me, it was, and a good idea, but it was dropped. I wonder why, because your suggestion above is a good one and this was a great way to make that point with every transaction.


ok...Yea I have noticed the slow demise in apni kamai! 

I guess jub barkat khattam hoti hai , this is how it looks!



zeeshe100 said:


> Pakistan k buray din zia ul haq k anay k baad shoro howaye


They started from Bhutto actually...But because of the sympathies for that family, no one realized what seeds they planted!

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## zulu

Very nice idea if u know such peoples start an thread who knows who get ready to join?some days ago welcome an guy here on pdf he plans later to start metallurgy institute in KPK recently working abroad aisy 10-12 bhi mil jain mulk ka kuch faida ho jaye 


313ghazi said:


> I personally think there is a market for people to do these things for themselves. There is a joke about engineers in Pakistan having no jobs, how about 1000 people, or 10,000 people enter a co-op, invest their resources and setup a plant to locally manufacture solar panels and everything else required to provide solar energy to a household? It requires trust - maybe a go-fund me page? or a govt mechanism to help protect that investment and make sure it's used as intended?

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## Dubious

Khafee said:


> That was a bad thing?


Nahh he is saying it was a good thing...

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## CHACHA"G"

Imran Khan said:


> This is nothing 4bn or 6bn we need save al.ost 15bn to 20bn


That 4 billion sounds small to you ???????? And how come you forget those industries (ban on imports) will generate billions too ……. Overall we can touch 5 to 6 Billion $$$ yearly …… And we can do some more things , Just like:

We can start Tee plantation and we can safe 1+ billion $$$ of Import ..
We can start palm tree Plantation with sun flower plantation to safe 700+ million $$ of import ..
We can start Hallal Meat Business on war footing and can start earning 10+ billion $$ yearly (If we can take 10% of hallal food market , total worth 2000 Billion now guess what will be 10% of that).
We can stop importing toys , pampers , cosmetics , chees , etc and can safe 1 to 2 billon $$



zulu said:


> @CHACHA"G" Import is an necessary evil its also generates revenue for govt (on many stages ) but importing luxury items should be totally banned (until we avoid such huge crisis ) we cant banned import of imp machineries for manufacturing but about other things you are right
> 2)Most of our taxes come from service industry and on other hand our manufacturing and producing sectors are shrinking which going to affect service industries too
> 3)govt should encourage(and trying as many schemes offered its up to others to avail where it can )
> 4)we should focus on Agri (lots of schemes offered here too by govt esp in Punjab )its the field of future not only we will get food security its can also become best export opportunity.There is reason an AUstralian company planning to put 2 billion dollars in agri.Trick is we should not lease our lands to others but sale all products by ourselves otherwise no good (nalaiqoo khud bhi kuch kar sakty hu as side business near yr villages economy ka bhi bhala plus khud kuch extra income bhi aaye gi sath 10 logon ko job)
> 5)we should start focusing establishing small industries lots of scope let say solar panels huge demand but here very few assembling units mostly import from china its not an rocket science (worked both on it and wind myself )
> There are still lots of points to discussed and easy do ables no point only describing problems but better trying to find solutions better make an permanent thread i tried(and failed ) in many fields so any info/help i can share my pleasure.That post for my respected fellow members @Mangus Ortus Novem @Khafee @Reddington and @CHACHA"G" who like me trying to discuss/find ways to avoid this crisis


I agree with you bro,,,, we don't have to ban important imports , but we have to completely ban , Toys , Chees , Textile (garments) , pampers , shoes , cosmetics , Try to ban palm oil , tee (we are agri country and we have land for both of things , we have to start local plantation just like india we are only 220 million we can manage our own needs) ……
Most importantly we have to start working on hallal food market on war footing ….. 2 trillion $$ economy and if we can take only 10% that will be huge for us ,,
And one most important point which we can do with some good diplomacy is* , Get 1+ million Visas for Pakistanis from GCC at least 50% of these need to be B and B+ category. *

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## Khafee

CHACHA"G" said:


> That 4 billion sounds small to you ???????? And how come you forget those industries (ban on imports) will generate billions too ……. Overall we can touch 5 to 6 Billion $$$ yearly …… And we can do some more things , Just like:
> 
> We can start Tee plantation and we can safe 1+ billion $$$ of Import ..
> We can start palm tree Plantation with sun flower plantation to safe 700+ million $$ of import ..
> We can start Hallal Meat Business on war footing and can start earning 10+ billion $$ yearly (If we can take 10% of hallal food market , total worth 2000 Billion now guess what will be 10% of that).
> We can stop importing toys , pampers , cosmetics , chees , etc and can safe 1 to 2 billon $$


What can be started - a lot of ifs and buts.

What needs to be done - Focus on your core competence. 
Increase agriculture output per acre, 
bring back the textile industry from Bangladesh,
Support industries that have high value, Def & Aviation, provide incentives for them to export
Open more vocational Schools, fix higher education, BBA & BCom by the truck load is not that helpful.
Setup govt agencies like ACIAR https://www.aciar.gov.au/ and sign MOU's with them for tech transfer.
Setup Co-Ops for SME's and farmers

A major overhaul of how the Govt works, and should work is required.



CHACHA"G" said:


> And one most important point which we can do with some good diplomacy is* , Get 1+ million Visas for Pakistanis from GCC at least 50% of these need to be B and B+ category. *



1) Fire SMQ, get a good diplomat. Restructure the Foreign Office, make it work like a well oiled machine. 

2) You have 4.5m+ Pakistanis in GCC, to compete internationally you need more & better, technical / vocational / higher education institutes.

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> ok...Yea I have noticed the slow demise in apni kamai!
> 
> I guess jub barkat khattam hoti hai , this is how it looks!



May be it is, but other countries seem to be doing fine without such annotations on their currencies.

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## CHACHA"G"

Khafee said:


> Fix your accountability issues, Capital will come IA.


I don't know why people forget 450 billion from Bharia town Karachi , Malik Riyaz , , , just one case 450 Billion..... What is the problem with people , why they cry money , money all the time ,. When it is not about Money But Will and Actions .

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> May be it is, but other countries seem to be doing fine without such annotations on their currencies.


Then what do *you *think is the problem?

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## CHACHA"G"

*+V from me too bro ,,, Love you for this post ……….. Nicely put …… May Allah Bless you. 
Bro it is all about Will ,,,,,,,,, Stopping import will hurt Govt and Mafia (Govt + Elite) but will help local papulation in long run , just like Malaysia . *



313ghazi said:


> There are multiple solutions, here are a few of my own.
> 
> 1. Government should put extremely high duty on any imports which are non necessary. This should be done in a phased approached linked up to point 2.
> 
> 2. Govt should setup an office dedicated to helping develop local companies. It should focus on developing businesses;
> - which grow domestic versions of stuff we import. For example, cheese and tea. We should be replacing imports with local versions.
> - Which we have the biggest return for the least investment
> - Which we have a population currently skilled for
> 
> 3. Govt should offer economic incentives for households and SME's to use solar panels for energy. We need a national push towards moving away from fossil fuels wherever possible. If we can make 50% of our electricity which we currently make through burning oil, via the sun and wind, it's 50% less oil imported.
> 
> 4. Govt should invest heavily in technical colleges working alongside industry to train youth to learn skills the market needs.
> 
> 5. Govt should try to ensure essential items are available on the market at minimal cost. In my mind these are food, pharmaceuticals, energy, transport, housing. The way to do this is to have state owned, privately managed enterprises generating these things from end to end, ie raw product to manufacturing to market. China's state and German state have excellent examples of these enterprises. In our case we should run them to make low profits but make cheap goods available to the consumer domestically.
> 
> 6. Any market the government intervenes in with step 5 with have local manufacturers up in arms. Govt should help each and every local business affected alter their business so that the product is export quality and help them export more of their produce.
> 
> The main crux of things is;
> 
> 1. Get to work and start making money and paying your taxes.
> 2. Stop spending money on things you don't need to spend money on.
> 3. State to intervene in the market directly through private-public joint ventures to keep the cost of essentials low.
> 4. State to actively support private companies to help improve standards and get produce exported.
> 
> ===
> 
> I personally think there is a market for people to do these things for themselves. There is a joke about engineers in Pakistan having no jobs, how about 1000 people, or 10,000 people enter a co-op, invest their resources and setup a plant to locally manufacture solar panels and everything else required to provide solar energy to a household? It requires trust - maybe a go-fund me page? or a govt mechanism to help protect that investment and make sure it's used as intended?

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Then what do *you *think is the problem?



The problems are manifold, from basics like education (leading to a shortage of trained manpower) to infrastructure (like lack of reliable power) to mismanagement (corruption pervading from top to bottom), and therefore already well-known. 

The hope here was (and is) that the present government under PMIK's leadership will be able to solve these issues, one by one, step by step, in an effective manner. If they follow the same tired old route of IMF and more loans, how will that be any different than all the times before, unless they can use these fresh loans to actually get Pakistan out of the present economic rut? 

They do not appear to have much time but a lot of work to demonstrate.


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## CHACHA"G"

Khafee said:


> Imports are also needed, since some items are well under Intl benchmarks. Banning imports just gives local producers an excuse not to improve - A GOOD e.g. Cheese!


Sir G for that we can have policies , laws , like quality control and management , Price control , etc.. And I also agree we cannot ban imports fully , but for few years we have too, we are 220+ million and growing international companies just cannot ignore us..



zeeshe100 said:


> Pakistan k buray din zia ul haq k anay k baad shoro howaye


No Bhutoo started it ,,,,,, His famous Nationalization...……………….. Zia take it to other level and Pee pee pee , Pml-n took it to point of no return..

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## Khafee

CHACHA"G" said:


> I don't know why people forget 450 billion from Bharia town Karachi , Malik Riyaz , , , just one case 450 Billion..... What is the problem with people , why they cry money , money all the time ,. When it is not about Money But Will and Actions .


In the macro picture - PKR450bn = not a lot, my friend.


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## CHACHA"G"

Nicely put sir , Fully agree ….. 


Khafee said:


> What can be started - a lot of ifs and buts.
> 
> What needs to be done - Focus on your core competence.
> Increase agriculture output per acre,
> bring back the textile industry from Bangladesh,
> Support industries that have high value, Def & Aviation, provide incentives for them to export
> Open more vocational Schools, fix higher education, BBA & BCom by the truck load is not that helpful.
> Setup govt agencies like ACIAR https://www.aciar.gov.au/ and sign MOU's with them for tech transfer.
> Setup Co-Ops for SME's and farmers
> 
> A major overhaul of how the Govt works, and should work is required.
> 
> 
> 
> 1) Fire SMQ, get a good diplomat. Restructure the Foreign Office, make it work like a well oiled machine.
> 
> 2) You have 4.5m+ Pakistanis in GCC, to compete internationally you need more & better, technical / vocational / higher education institutes.





Khafee said:


> In the macro picture - PKR450bn = not a lot, my friend.


But this need to be enough for those who said Pakistan have no money …………. 
And morw will come , Insha-Allah ….. we still have zardari and nora companies ..

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## KhanBaba2

CHACHA"G" said:


> Most importantly we have to start working on hallal food market on war footing ….. 2 trillion $$ economy and if we can take only 10% that will be huge for us ,,


A major increase in halal food would require a major increase in animal feed, which would require increase in agriculture. That would need more water and would need more dams. It won't happen overnight. Same with tea, palm or sunflower plantation.


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> The hope here was (and is) that the present government under PMIK's leadership will be able to solve these issues, one by one, step by step, in an effective manner. If they follow the same tired old route of IMF and more loans, how will that be any different than all the times before, unless they can use these fresh loans to actually get Pakistan out of the present economic rut?


Dont you think the conditions that come with the loans actually cripple the country further ...if conditions enabled countries to get out of the loan circuit...where will the business of loan granting for IMF come from? You dont get rid of your "best" customers...

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## Khafee

CHACHA"G" said:


> Nicely put sir , Fully agree …..
> 
> 
> 
> But this need to be enough for those who said Pakistan have no money ………….
> And morw will come , Insha-Allah ….. we still have zardari and nora companies ..



Bhai @MastanKhan Sahab, has said this a lot of times - If PAF needs money, let them get in to the Real Estate business.

IT's not about money only, but how the Elite corrupt loot with Impunity. THAT my friend is the crux of the problem.

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## Dubious

KhanBaba2 said:


> A major increase in halal food would require a major increase in animal feed, which would require increase in agriculture. That would need more water and would need more dams. It won't happen overnight. Same with tea, palm or sunflower plantation.


Well, the same animal food is god in india...god also needs animal feed and water...

Halal food is a untapped market...MANY shops in Europe and America need a continuous supply for their Muslim population..I mean no one is giving these away for free...it is trade / business like any other meat business on the planet!

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## Reddington

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Wihtout Problem Definition entering Solution Space is futile excercise.
> 
> As I tried to narrate in my first post the problem with Pak Economy is not single point based. But rather multi layers/dimmensional. Hence the solutions are going to be equally multivectored.





zulu said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem one more of your thread gown to drain again  should we start discussing possible solutions ??? @Reddington what u say?but must warn u no one going to notices as already on 4th page and here new political storm raising no body going to think about our given solutions what u say



Ok. Let's first identify problems.

Remember that economy is inter-connected with good governance, political stability, rule of law and literacy. 
Here are the key problems Pakistan face today in my opinion.
*
1) Poor System of Governance

i)* This Parliamentary democracy is nothing but a sham. A hogwash. Even ministers can't be appointed other than the politicians elected in assemblies. Which means no experts in their field can ever become a minister. While politicians are complete morons.
* 
ii)*18th amendment. A sinister amendment done to constitution on orders of outside powers to weaken the federation and give more funds to provinces. Which ends up in hands of politicians by the way.

*2) Decadent Judicial System
*
19th century's Anglo-Saxon colonial laws designed by British especially to persecute and oppress the weak majority while rich elite can never be touched. Which means corruption, corruption and only corruption. People often say that Pakistan's biggest problem is corruption. It's not actually. It is just a symptom. The real disease of our country is our rotten judicial system that can never touch the elite (politicians, Judges, lawyers, bureaucrats, generals, businessman and others)

*3) Low Quality Education

i)* The situation of education in our country is downright pathetic. Universities are handing out degrees like pamphlets. Thousands of students are graduating every year from our universities. But they don't have the required skills to work in industries.
There needs to be skill based education with government supporting them to become entrepreneurs and do innovation. 
*
ii)*Another problem is that they are never taught to think out of box. Result is there is no innovation in our country. Also same reason we aren't producing any high caliber intellectuals, academics and scientists.

*4) Corrupt Police system*

Again Pakistan penal code (1860), Code of criminal Procedure(1898) designed by British. Rotten system that needs to be removed ASAP.

*5) Tax Reforms

i)* Tax reforms are badly needed. The government has imposed so much taxes on people (indirect taxes) on things of everyday life like food, clothing, medicines, electricity, gas etc. But still it says that people don't give taxes (direct taxes). Utter nonsense. 
*
ii)* Pakistan right now is on 147th number on the list of ease of doing business countries (World Bank).
Taxes needs to be reduced for businesses and foreign investment needs to be encouraged. There needs to be major reforms taken by the government to reduce taxes.

Here are the problems I have identified. If these problems are solved, then Pakistan can become economically stronger. What do you guys think. @Mangus Ortus Novem @zulu

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## Umar Nazir

As per World Bank, more than 36% economy of Pakistan is unregistered which cast Pakistan ateast 800 dollar in GDP per capita . My question is why every govt fail to register that unregistered economy ?????

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## Khafee

Reddington said:


> Ok. Let's first identify problems.
> 
> Remember that economy is inter-connected with good governance, political stability, rule of law and literacy.
> Here are the key problems Pakistan face today in my opinion.
> *
> 1) Poor System of Governance
> 
> i)* This Parliamentary democracy is nothing but a sham. A hogwash. Even ministers can't be appointed other than the politicians elected in assemblies. Which means no experts in their field can ever become a minister. While politicians are complete morons.
> *
> ii)*18th amendment. A sinister amendment done to constitution on orders of outside powers to weaken the federation and give more funds to provinces. Which ends up in hands of politicians by the way.
> 
> *2) Decadent Judicial System
> *
> 19th century's Anglo-Saxon colonial laws designed by British especially to persecute and oppress the weak majority while rich elite can never be touched. Which means corruption, corruption and only corruption. People often say that Pakistan's biggest problem is corruption. It's not actually. It is just a symptom. The real disease of our country is our rotten judicial system that can never touch the elite (politicians, Judges, lawyers, bureaucrats, generals, businessman and others)
> 
> *3) Low Quality Education
> 
> i)* The situation of education in our country is downright pathetic. Universities are handing out degrees like pamphlets. Thousands of students are graduating every year from our universities. But they don't have the required skills to work in industries.
> There needs to be skill based education with government supporting them to become entrepreneurs and do innovation.
> *
> ii)*Another problem is that they are never taught to think out of box. Result is there is no innovation in our country. Also same reason we aren't producing any high caliber intellectuals, academics and scientists.
> 
> *4) Corrupt Police system*
> 
> Again Pakistan penal code (1860), Code of criminal Procedure(1898) designed by British. Rotten system that needs to be removed ASAP.
> 
> *5) Tax Reforms
> 
> i)* Tax reforms are badly needed. The government has imposed so much taxes on people (indirect taxes) on things of everyday life like food, clothing, medicines, electricity, gas etc. But still it says that people don't give taxes (direct taxes). Utter nonsense.
> *
> ii)* Pakistan right now is on 147th number on the list of ease of doing business countries (World Bank).
> Taxes needs to be reduced for businesses and foreign investment needs to be encouraged. There needs to be major reforms taken by the government to reduce taxes.
> 
> Here are the problems I have identified. If these problems are solved, then Pakistan can become economically stronger. What do you guys think. @Mangus Ortus Novem @zulu


Export oriented laws would really help as well.


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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Dont you think the conditions that come with the loans actually cripple the country further ...if conditions enabled countries to get out of the loan circuit...where will the business of loan granting for IMF come from? You dont get rid of your "best" customers...



For starters, going to the IMF or not is a decision made by the country, not the IMF. The conditions that IMF puts are according to its published charter and well-known, and are designed with sound economic principles in mind.

If any country decides they are not willing to accept the conditions, then it is their choice not to seek IMF funds.

IMF is not in the "business" of loans. It was set up as a lender of last resort to enable struggling economies avoid a total collapse, and that remains its only role. That is why it charges much lower rates than commercial lenders in the business.

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## Dubious

Economic future of Pakistan linked with enhancement of exports: Imran Khan
April 04, 2019







Prime Minister Imran Khan says economic future of Pakistan is linked with enhancement of exports which so far have remained far below the actual potential.

He was chairing 80th meeting of Board of Administrators of Export Development Fund in Islamabad today (Thursday).

The Prime Minister said in past, revenue-centric economic policies with overemphasis on collection of revenues made the industry uncompetitive. He said the PTI government has made a paradigm shift in prioritizing the competitiveness of industry vis-à-vis revenue collection.

The meeting approved budget and the schedule of activities to be held during four-day TEXPO Exhibition 2019 at Lahore Expo Centre on 11th of this month.


http://www.radio.gov.pk/04-04-2019/economic-future-of-pakistan-linked-with-enhancement-of-exports-pm


So 1 issue is being addressed! What next?

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## Khafee

Umar Nazir said:


> As per World Bank, more than 36% economy of Pakistan is unregistered which cast Pakistan ateast 800 dollar in GDP per capita . My question is why every govt fail to register that unregistered economy ?????



Look at the Tax records of your MNA / MLA / Senators, and you will have your answer.

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> For starters, going to the IMF or not is a decision made by the country, not the IMF. The conditions that IMF puts are according to its published charter and well-known, and are designed with sound economic principles in mind.
> 
> If any country decides they are not willing to accept the conditions, then it is their choice not to seek IMF funds.
> 
> IMF is not in the "business" of loans. It was set up as a lender of last resort to enable struggling economics avoid a total collapse, and that remains its only role.


It isnt in the "business" of loans? Then how does it run without lending and getting back interest?

2ndly, it is the country's choice when you tell it to devalue its currency...Then it cant pay back [coz the same money they borrowed now has to be payed back not just with interest but also within its capacity/ currency = still paying more] and the 2 cant be linked...Then that isnt very smart economics, now is it?

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## Khafee

Dubious said:


> So 1 issue is being addressed! What next?



When something gets implemented, and we can see +ve results, then we can say that it has been addressed. 

Right now, its just one guy trying to figure out, where the head is, and where the tail is, while his team is busy in pulling fast ones.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Reddington said:


> Ok. Let's first identify problems.
> 
> Remember that economy is inter-connected with good governance, political stability, rule of law and literacy.
> Here are the key problems Pakistan face today in my opinion.
> *
> 1) Poor System of Governance
> 
> i)* This Parliamentary democracy is nothing but a sham. A hogwash. Even ministers can't be appointed other than the politicians elected in assemblies. Which means no experts in their field can ever become a minister. While politicians are complete morons.
> *
> ii)*18th amendment. A sinister amendment done to constitution on orders of outside powers to weaken the federation and give more funds to provinces. Which ends up in hands of politicians by the way.
> 
> *2) Decadent Judicial System
> *
> 19th century's Anglo-Saxon colonial laws designed by British especially to persecute and oppress the weak majority while rich elite can never be touched. Which means corruption, corruption and only corruption. People often say that Pakistan's biggest problem is corruption. It's not actually. It is just a symptom. The real disease of our country is our rotten judicial system that can never touch the elite (politicians, Judges, lawyers, bureaucrats, generals, businessman and others)
> 
> *3) Low Quality Education
> 
> i)* The situation of education in our country is downright pathetic. Universities are handing out degrees like pamphlets. Thousands of students are graduating every year from our universities. But they don't have the required skills to work in industries.
> There needs to be skill based education with government supporting them to become entrepreneurs and do innovation.
> *
> ii)*Another problem is that they are never taught to think out of box. Result is there is no innovation in our country. Also same reason we aren't producing any high caliber intellectuals, academics and scientists.
> 
> *4) Corrupt Police system*
> 
> Again Pakistan penal code (1860), Code of criminal Procedure(1898) designed by British. Rotten system that needs to be removed ASAP.
> 
> *5) Tax Reforms
> 
> i)* Tax reforms are badly needed. The government has imposed so much taxes on people (indirect taxes) on things of everyday life like food, clothing, medicines, electricity, gas etc. But still it says that people don't give taxes (direct taxes). Utter nonsense.
> *
> ii)* Pakistan right now is on 147th number on the list of ease of doing business countries (World Bank).
> Taxes needs to be reduced for businesses and foreign investment needs to be encouraged. There needs to be major reforms taken by the government to reduce taxes.
> 
> Here are the problems I have identified. If these problems are solved, then Pakistan can become economically stronger. What do you guys think. @Mangus Ortus Novem @zulu


.


Dear Pak,

A very good beginning. Yes, beginning... please, look at the total Instuitional Capture as well. Save for national defence all other instuitions are in a state of ruin.

Your bureaucracy is more of a colonial force to manage the locals than serve the citizens. Hence, no ease of doing business or any policymaking.

Tax collection is no problem. 

Your tax office collects taxes alright. Between 6T to 8T which never goes to treasury. All in the pocket. Well established fact. Why do you think there are so many medical doctors in the tax department?

Bureaucracy is part of #CriminalEnterprise . Police is just an enforcer/bouncer for the elite. 

Also there is a religion capture by the #DieselMullahs who are on the payroll of foreign powers. Reference: Wikileaks

But I am delighted that you have narrowed the field. 

What else do you think?

Regards,

Mangus

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## CHACHA"G"

KhanBaba2 said:


> A major increase in halal food would require a major increase in animal feed, which would require increase in agriculture. That would need more water and would need more dams. It won't happen overnight. Same with tea, palm or sunflower plantation.


Yes , but does that mean we don't have to start ????????????? If we start this year we will see full fruits in 2025 …….. Just after 6 years …….

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> It isnt in the "business" of loans? Then how does it run without lending and getting back interest?
> 
> 2ndly, it is the country's choice when you tell it to devalue its currency...Then it cant pay back [coz the same money they borrowed now has to be payed back not just with interest but also within its capacity/ currency = still paying more] and the 2 cant be linked...Then that isnt very smart economics, now is it?



The interest rate IMF charges is only to repay its members who put up the money, and is far less than commercial lenders who are in the lending business.

And again, if the IMF conditions are not good for the country, then it is up to the country to refuse the bailout. It is their choice and their decision, and not up to the IMF.

The value of the currency is determined by basic principles - what a country produces and what it consumes - and that is what the IMF must prescribe according to its charter, pure and simple.

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## Umar Nazir

Khafee said:


> Look at the Tax records of your MNA / MLA / Senators, and you will have your answer.


but who is owning 36% unregistered economy ? is it agricultural economy???? and what about indian agriculture, is there any tax on indian agricultural economy, if yes than why not in Pakistan ???????

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## zulu

Dear Khafee there is lots of if and buts but for start ?better take one step.WHy i say that ?by exp before starting any business try to cover as many points as possible but 100% in office?not possible even its shape up 70% do it rest will resolve head on day to day basis 20 years of exp never job for anyone for an single day.Like agri i did many taking crops options,fattening animals, all sitting in Karachi as no village background here in PAkistan.For those if they put just an acre of range free chicken or 5-10 acre different crops (better fooder how much its gonna cost them ?? ) do it in your village along with it u able to provide 1-2 or more person an job.About any small industry like solar how much it gonna cost ?? all cells are imported u just have to assemble it (making cells is another and big story ) all i wanna say better take first step anyone/everyone who can do it 


Khafee said:


> What can be started - a lot of ifs and buts.
> 
> What needs to be done - Focus on your core competence.
> Increase agriculture output per acre,
> bring back the textile industry from Bangladesh,
> Support industries that have high value, Def & Aviation, provide incentives for them to export
> Open more vocational Schools, fix higher education, BBA & BCom by the truck load is not that helpful.
> Setup govt agencies like ACIAR https://www.aciar.gov.au/ and sign MOU's with them for tech transfer.
> Setup Co-Ops for SME's and farmers
> 
> A major overhaul of how the Govt works, and should work is required.



Sir your all points valid but need more time and efforst esp on top level 


Reddington said:


> Ok. Let's first identify problems.
> 
> Remember that economy is inter-connected with good governance, political stability, rule of law and literacy.
> Here are the key problems Pakistan face today in my opinion.
> *
> 1) Poor System of Governance
> 
> i)* This Parliamentary democracy is nothing but a sham. A hogwash. Even ministers can't be appointed other than the politicians elected in assemblies. Which means no experts in their field can ever become a minister. While politicians are complete morons.
> *
> ii)*18th amendment. A sinister amendment done to constitution on orders of outside powers to weaken the federation and give more funds to provinces. Which ends up in hands of politicians by the way.
> 
> *2) Decadent Judicial System
> *
> 19th century's Anglo-Saxon colonial laws designed by British especially to persecute and oppress the weak majority while rich elite can never be touched. Which means corruption, corruption and only corruption. People often say that Pakistan's biggest problem is corruption. It's not actually. It is just a symptom. The real disease of our country is our rotten judicial system that can never touch the elite (politicians, Judges, lawyers, bureaucrats, generals, businessman and others)
> 
> *3) Low Quality Education
> 
> i)* The situation of education in our country is downright pathetic. Universities are handing out degrees like pamphlets. Thousands of students are graduating every year from our universities. But they don't have the required skills to work in industries.
> There needs to be skill based education with government supporting them to become entrepreneurs and do innovation.
> *
> ii)*Another problem is that they are never taught to think out of box. Result is there is no innovation in our country. Also same reason we aren't producing any high caliber intellectuals, academics and scientists.
> 
> *4) Corrupt Police system*
> 
> Again Pakistan penal code (1860), Code of criminal Procedure(1898) designed by British. Rotten system that needs to be removed ASAP.
> 
> *5) Tax Reforms
> 
> i)* Tax reforms are badly needed. The government has imposed so much taxes on people (indirect taxes) on things of everyday life like food, clothing, medicines, electricity, gas etc. But still it says that people don't give taxes (direct taxes). Utter nonsense.
> *
> ii)* Pakistan right now is on 147th number on the list of ease of doing business countries (World Bank).
> Taxes needs to be reduced for businesses and foreign investment needs to be encouraged. There needs to be major reforms taken by the government to reduce taxes.
> 
> Here are the problems I have identified. If these problems are solved, then Pakistan can become economically stronger. What do you guys think. @Mangus Ortus Novem @zulu

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Dubious said:


> It isnt in the "business" of loans? Then how does it run without lending and getting back interest?
> 
> 2ndly, it is the country's choice when you tell it to devalue its currency...Then it cant pay back [coz the same money they borrowed now has to be payed back not just with interest but also within its capacity/ currency = still paying more] and the 2 cant be linked...Then that isnt very smart economics, now is it?




Welcome to the neoliberal, post-Frankfurt school, economics. Money out of thin air... and whoa... you are in debt.

No need to colonise... we have human rights and democracy now. Just create debt traps... deploy your #EconomicTerrorist and have generations become slaves with stunted growth. 

Pak needs to play its way out of debt trap very smartly. Not that easy... but doable.

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## Khafee

Umar Nazir said:


> but who is owning 36% unregistered economy ? is it agricultural economy???? and what about indian agriculture, is there any tax on indian agricultural economy, if yes than why not in Pakistan ???????


CLEAN / BLEACH your legislative houses, progress will follow. 

#SayNoToThieves

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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> And again, if the IMF conditions are not good for the country, then it is up to the country to refuse the bailout. It is their choice and their decision, and not up to the IMF.


Well there isnt exactly another / alternative choice now is there?!

That makes it a monopoly in the field...more like a mafia/ dakku....

2ndly, stupid conditions like devaluing the currency shouldnt really even be suggested! Rest I can agree too...



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Welcome to the neoliberal, post-Frankfurt school, economics. Money out of thin air... and whoa... you are in debt.
> 
> No need to colonise... we have human rights and democracy now. Just create debt traps... deploy your #EconomicTerrorist and have generations become slaves with stunted growth.
> 
> Pak needs to play its way out of debt trap very smartly. Not that easy... but doable.


YESH!

I took basic commerce and accounting and believe me, we werent thought this much [I guess this is more economy] and so I really dont always get what BS people and "consultants" are suggesting!

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Well there isnt exactly another / alternative choice now is there?!
> 
> That makes it a monopoly in the field...more like a mafia/ dakku....
> 
> 2ndly, stupid conditions like devaluing the currency shouldnt really even be suggested! Rest I can agree too...



Well, it is the lender of LAST RESORT.

The value of any currency is determined by what a country produces and what it consumes, and up to the country, not the IMF.

And if it is so bad, then a country should not make the decision to seeks its help. Very simple, actually.

May be that is why PMIK has not gone to the IMF to date.

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## Umar Nazir

currently biggest issue for economy is massive loans, govt should try to reschedule loan as Mushraff did in the past


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## zulu

Kinda same opportunity in export those from Sialkot (family /friends who in business )who can arrange better get an free account on alibaba and such b2b sites start marketing just an hour a day.if u get order in 6 months what the harm u not investing any money but effort.30% u will get in advance (works on LC only pay it to manufacturer game starts ).LAst year our footwear export increase to 33% we are still very good in leather(those soles are imported from china but design and manufacturing here ) same with leather jackets .Sir try lainy ko bht kuch hai esp if u think not only for you your country going to get it Allah niyaat ka phal bhi dy gaa and u r doing efforts too for economy


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## Dubious

VCheng said:


> Well, it is the lender of LAST RESORT.
> 
> The value of any currency is determined by what a country produces and what it consumes, and up to the country, not the IMF.
> 
> And if it is so bad, then a country should not make the decision to seeks its help. Very simple, actually.


Not very simple as you yourself stated few posts back, that the economic condition of a country for eg. Pakistan is in the current situation due to a number of reasons...Now how can one tackle all?
How has IMF been giving loans for decades if the situation is this chaos? What happened to so called conditions?


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Dubious said:


> Well there isnt exactly another / alternative choice now is there?!
> 
> That makes it a monopoly in the field...more like a mafia/ dakku....
> 
> 2ndly, stupid conditions like devaluing the currency shouldnt really even be suggested! Rest I can agree too...
> 
> 
> YESH!
> 
> I took basic commerce and accounting and believe me, we werent thought this much [I guess this is more economy] and so I really dont always get what BS people and "consultants" are suggesting!




The so-called economists on TV or financial experts are all paid agents of neo-liberal school and IMF stooges. It is their job to create chaos....

If I tell you that within five years Pak can pay off its loans and create a long term growth framework... no one will believe me... but just as @Khafee posted... a clean bleaching is needed. Can Pak State do that?

Ever wondered why Pak State never aggressively explored natural resources?

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## VCheng

Dubious said:


> Not very simple as you yourself stated few posts back, that the economic condition of a country for eg. Pakistan is in the current situation due to a number of reasons...Now how can one tackle all?
> How has IMF been giving loans for decades if the situation is this chaos? What happened to so called conditions?



If you remember, I have said numerous times here on PDF that PMIK needs some time to decide on his policies, and we need to wait for actual results. Let us see how he tackles these challenges. After all, he is the responsible person and not you or I.

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## zulu

Buddy u put us on presenting real on ground solutions and yourself engage in intellectuals  i was trying to present things in simple so other can understand (did graduation in commerce,later masters involved in import/export,stock and manufacturing for last 20 years ) so not saying things randomly but as simple as possible 


Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> The so-called economists on TV or financial experts are all paid agents of neo-liberal school and IMF stooges. It is their job to create chaos....
> 
> If I tell you that within five years Pak can pay off its loans and create a long term growth framework... no one will believe me... but just as @Khafee posted... a clean bleaching is needed. Can Pak State do that?
> 
> Ever wondered why Pak State never aggressively explored natural resources?



YEs he just join last August and expecting him to clear all mess of so many years in such short time is un realistic Allah ussay kamiyaab kary not only for his sake but for ordinary peoples of Pakistan who are really suffering ameen 


VCheng said:


> If you remember, I have said numerous times here on PDF that PMIK needs some time to decide on his policies, and we need to wait for actual results. Let us see how he tackles these challenges. After all, he is the responsible person and not you or I.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

zulu said:


> Buddy u put us on presenting real on ground solutions and yourself engage in intellectuals  i was trying to present things in simple so other can understand (did graduation in commerce,later masters involved in import/export,stock and manufacturing for last 20 years ) so not saying things randomly but as simple as possible




Ah, my friend... what is better... that Paks employing thinking faculty or simply offering solutions.

Of course, solutions are right in front of us. 

If you read what I put in my article all solutions are there within... give it a run... we shall come to structural solutions then....

However, it shouldn't be debatable that current system of #CriminalEnterprise is not condusive to socio-economic growth. Jinnah is still waiting... he didn't create Pak for a few... but for the masses. #NoToSocialism

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## zulu

So true also as point out by our friend @Reddington but problem is those steps are not in our hand thats why only presenting solutions which we can ourselves 


Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Ah, my friend... what is better... that Paks employing thinking faculty or simply offering solutions.
> 
> Of course, solutions are right in front of us.
> 
> If you read what I put in my article all solutions are there within... give it a run... we shall come to structural solutions then....
> 
> However, it shouldn't be debatable that current system of #CriminalEnterprise is not condusive to socio-economic growth. Jinnah is still waiting... he didn't create Pak for a few... but for the masses. #NoToSocialism

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## VCheng

zulu said:


> YEs he just join last August and expecting him to clear all mess of so many years in such short time is un realistic Allah ussay kamiyaab kary not only for his sake but for ordinary peoples of Pakistan who are really suffering ameen




PMIK's success can only be judged by the actual results he is able to deliver. We need to wait for those to become evident.


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## zulu

Thats why i m praying for him (even not an PTI supporter ) soon he gonna get few chances all up to him become an leader or just an name of ex PM's of Pakistan list in history books 


VCheng said:


> PMIK's success can only be judged by the actual results he is able to deliver. We need to wait for those to become evident.

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## VCheng

zulu said:


> Thats why i m praying for him (even not an PTI supporter ) soon he gonna get few chances all up to him become an leader or just an name of ex PM's of Pakistan list in history books



I think we ALL are praying for his success, in our own ways.

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## Yankee-stani

Indus Pakistan said:


> What did I say about slicing the fat of everything that moves in and out of a 200 million country? they are merely inefficient rent seekers that live off the poor Pakistani customers who have no other alternatives. Instead of bragging about them please tell me *what* exactly do they export and what is the *quanta* of value addition. Flogging mangos or sugar or cotton grown on farms is not value addition. Please do enumerate.
> 
> For instance we know Dhaka and Chittagong have huge garmant plants. But this is not just brags. We know they export over $20 billion of garmants to the world. I know. Everytime I go shopping for cloths I can't avoid "Made In Bangla tags".
> 
> So please tell me what and how much in $$$ is being exported from this 'powerhouse' sites you mentioned? On closer inspection you will see it is just rent seeking.



If you would have asked me a decade ago whenever we use to go shopping for clothes we use to see a lot "Made in Pakistan" goods however fast forward a decade later all I see is Cheap Chinese,Bangla,Vietnamese, and Indo/Malay clothes in the US but also because of the trade war we are seeing more clothes made across the border in Mexico and in Central American countries like El Salvador and Honduras, the bloody rent seekers are fleecing are exports to the bone man its so sad



Indus Pakistan said:


> *Caveat:*
> 
> The only city I think that is *not* reliant on rent seeking or exporting raw agr produce and deserves recognition is ..... Sialkot [no I am not from Sialkot] because you actually see products from this city across the world and they are competing against Chinese, Indian, Malay, Indonesian products like sports goods, leather, surgical equipment. I can go on Alibaba right now and get bombarded by dozens of Sialkot based companies all screaming to export their goods on the international markets. This needs to be replicated across Pakistan. And funny thing is Sialkot is teribly located for exports. Thousand miles from port and hundreds miles from airport although they have built their own private airport. This is real value addition and entrepreneaurship. Not rent seeking.





Indus Pakistan said:


> That's because the biggest rent seekers are based there with HQ's. Karachi Port for instance handles entire nations exp/imps. Othes are rent seeking companies that flogs a foreign franchised products like toothpaste across the entire 200 million market will show it';s tax address in Karachi. On the other hand the *mother of all tax sucking entities* like PIA, PS and others are also based in Karachi. You will ignore to mention them.
> 
> Something which is matter of record but funnily enough has recieved *minimal *coverage [swept under the carpet] whereas PTM gets the full media attention.



The Fact Sialkot bussinesmen have made their own airport and created a well functional industrial city should be replicated all across Pakistan, Karachi is lost cause too much internal Politics between MQM,PPP and ANP/PTM etc , Gwader needs to be made a industrial hub first it will make Balochistan less violtile and provide jobs to biggest and poorest province Punjab has enough largess alas we are PAKISTAN not Punjabistan

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## Indus Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> The Fact Sialkot bussinesmen have made their own airport and created a well functional industrial city should be replicated all across Pakistan, Karachi is lost cause too much internal Politics between MQM,PPP and ANP/PTM etc , Gwader needs to be made a industrial hub first it will make Balochistan less violtile and provide jobs to biggest and poorest province Punjab has enough largess alas we are PAKISTAN not Punjabistan


At least you understand. Thanks ...

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## Yankee-stani

Indus Pakistan said:


> At least you understand. Thanks ...



I just want the best for Pakistan cause at end of day I know I will always be Pakistani regardless how long my family has been here and I am sick of the mess its in

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## Indus Pakistan

OsmanAli98 said:


> I just want the best for Pakistan cause at end of day I know I will always be Pakistani regardless how long my family has been here and I am sick of the mess its in


Ditto ...



OsmanAli98 said:


> I just want the best for Pakistan cause at end of day I know I will always be Pakistani regardless how long my family has been here and I am sick of the mess its in


Did I tell you last week I bought a used Nissan Note for my kids to learn on and serve as general dog worker for the family. So I found a good deal on ebay in Tenby Wells, Herefordshire with a farmer. It was good distance from but the chap sounded very posh and I reckoned the car would be in good condition and taken care of. Sure enough after over two hours drive I pulled into a huge farm _ clearly the owner was very wealthy. 

Turns out the guy was retired SAS Colonel, the SAS has it's barracks not too far from there and he said many SAS retire in Herefordshire as it great countryside, quite and peace reigns. We shook hands and I gave the guy the money and he asked if I wanted to check the engine. By this stage I had driven the car and it was spot on. My son also drove it and confirmed it was running great. I said it was not point in me opening the bonnet as I have zero knowledge of engines and I could not suss out a dud from real engine but since the car ran great and most importantly I sized him, the owner as a gentleman and accordingly trusted his sale. He was well taken back by this and then shaking my hand he said "where you are from". That reminded me I will always be Pakistani. My English and I speak superfluous English with no 'foreign accent'. But here he was asking where i was from. Not in a bad way at all. But that underlined I will always remain exotic. 

Anyway after this the conversation really took a interesting turn. He goes "I knew your countryman". There are almost zero ethnics in Herefordshire. Surprised I said who? He replied Imran Khan. Aghast. I asked how. It turns out he was one year junior to Imran Khan at Royal Worcester Grammar School way back in early 1970. Rather proudly I asked what was IK like as a young lad. His reply rather took me by surprise. He summed as 'incredibly hardworking, honest to the bone, incredibly shy, would walk with his head pointed down". He mentioned he was whizz with bat and would regularly hit sixes although he played Rugby. He went on to mention that there was a girls grammar school not too far and when they had conventions together the girls would swarm around IK like flies to honey. 

He said he followed IK's career although never kept in touch with him. And said he was most surprised that he went into politics and he never too him to be sly, scheming type. Qualities essential to politics and that IM's honestly would come in his way. I explained it did. For 22 years he was in wilderness because of his honesty. Anyway I thought you might be interested in this little story.

Oh and the car is perfect ....

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## Blue Marlin

dont you think pakistan should focus on value based items. i.e. instead of exporting raw denim to bangladesh for example, why dont pakistan make the jeans?

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## Shah01

The thread is progressing nicely and as promised to write something about agriculture. Before I start with the suggestions and thoughts on agriculture, I will touch on a few points which are essential and a few of members have already mentioned (These are not in order as all will need to be working in order for a successful economy): @313ghazi @Reddington

1. Ease of doing business (or the lack of it) is a major barrier to success in Pakistan. A few members already hinted on it. Government to reform.
2. Tax: Make the tax filing easy and reduce taxes on businesses. Also make it simpler. I won’t go into details here but Government to reform.
3. Judiciary system: A justice system which is fair, is a foundation building block in a society/country. Judiciary should also make laws which are relevant and keep updating as and when needed (i.e. online hacking/social media, terrorism etc). Government to reform.
4. Police Force: After judiciary the nation need some force to implement the rules and laws, so a good police force will be needed. Government to reform.
5. Education system: Again, some members already have mentioned, and I will stress on having an educated youth which can innovate, work hard and think through processes will only make the journey easier. Government to reform.
6. Health system: A healthy nation will be able to materialise the opportunities and work towards a better future. Government should make reforms.

The above six points together with foreign policies as well as defence for the country should reside with the government. All the remaining sectors should be dealt by private investors or even private/public investment. My preference is private investors with oversight from the government by introducing quality controls as well as legislation/rules for environment factors (i.e. dealing with waste water, chemical and other waste etc).

Some members suggested a total ban on imports. I would suggest thinking about the consequences of this. There are certain essential goods which will need to be imported or the country will grind to a halt. Furthermore, if such a ban is applied one should expect the black/grey market to flourish (costing the State in revenues). Almost 21% of the tax collection was from Excise and Customs duties (2017-18). Say goodbye to this after the import ban. If you would like to check the figures: http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/tax.pdf

The flight of forex may reduce slightly but not effectively. I like the idea of increasing the import duty on luxury and non-essential goods. We can further investigate the top 10 goods by import value and try to see which of those can be produced in Pakistan by making small/smart changes.

1. Mineral fuels including oil: US$17.1 billion (28.4% of total imports)
2. Machinery including computers: $6.3 billion (10.4%)
3. Electrical machinery, equipment: $4.3 billion (7.2%)
4. Iron, steel: $3.7 billion (6.1%)
5. Organic chemicals: $2.8 billion (4.6%)
6. Vehicles: $2.6 billion (4.3%)
7. Plastics, plastic articles: $2.5 billion (4.1%)
8. Animal/vegetable fats, oils, waxes: $2.1 billion (3.5%)
9. Oil seeds: $1.5 billion (2.4%)
10. Cotton: $1.3 billion (2.1%)

The above account for about 73% of the total imports. We can grow Animal/Vegetable fats, oils, waxes (to some extent), Oil seeds and cotton. Reducing the import bill by about 8%. All other sectors such as vehicles, computers and machinery will take a long time to setup and these industries will cost multi-billion-dollar in investment.

There should be parallel commitment to modernizing agriculture and producing not only the cash crops but also all other crops which reduce/eliminate imports. The aim should be to make life easier and not place hurdles/difficulties. Found the following page (good information, saved me pulling data into spreadsheet and analyse):

https://www.pbc.org.pk/research/selected-trade-and-manufacturing-data-for-pakistan-a-brief_analysis-2/

This is good point to look at agriculture and related industry. Where we stand and what the possibilities are based on data from developed countries. First, we need to understand that majority of the farmers have small land holdings. I think we are standing at the crossroads where small land holders would not be able to survive due to the costs of farming as well as unable to cultivate efficiently. I expect a major shift from small land holdings to commercial farming.







The above table shows how crop yields fair compare to world’s best. I would like to introduce modern agriculture in order to increase the yields. Imagine if Wheat, Rice and Maize production can be doubled with the same arable land. A few points to note in order to get higher yields:

1. Soil testing: (Government should build labs in every district to test soils types). This is very beneficial for the farmer as it will show the type of fertiliser is needed the most and which crop can be cultivated successfully.
2. Pesticide/Herbicide: Farmers should be made aware of the pesticides and herbicides used to kill weeds and the effects of these on crops. Modern practices should be introduced and use of these should also be minimised with better planning and crop management (i.e. crop rotation could take care of some of the problems).
3. Irrigation: This is most important as Pakistan is water stressed country and we should endeavour to introduce sprinkler/drip irrigation. Drip could above surface or sub surface. This will not only save water but also drip fertigation will reduce the use of fertilisers as well. Better yields with less water and fertiliser. Solar panels can be used to produce electricity for irrigation.
4. Seed selection: This is very important. After soil testing appropriate seed should be selected in order to get the most yield. Seed treatment should be applied before seeding etc. So, there should be seminars/workshops for farmers to introduce them to new techniques. Some seed research should also be done. Take example of Israel where they have research in new seed production (they have experimented with mixing saline water with sweet water to grow potatoes etc.).
5. Equipment: Modern equipment for agriculture. Be it tractors, planters, harvesters etc. This will not only mechanise the sector but also help with quality control.
6. Tillage/No Tillage: I am sure most of farmers in Pakistan will be unaware of no tillage farming and its benefits for the soil. Farmers can be made aware of this so this can be introduced for wheat crop or even for maize etc (won’t work for potatoes).

If the above points can be introduced, I am sure not only the yields will go up, but the quality of the grain will also be improved and better profits for the farmers.

Once the grain is harvested it could either be sold for processing or kept in on farm storage for livestock feed etc. This is where industry comes into play. We can process wheat, corn and oil seeds to get flour, edible oil from our own produce rather than importing it. Furthermore, feed mills can produce feeds which then can be used in livestock sector. Our livestock sector is one of the largest in the world (dairy, poultry etc). These sectors can make a major difference in not only producing enough for the 210 million population but also for export. One is astonished at findings that cheese and milk is still imported. Private sector should invest in poultry, meat and milk processing so that we can have milk available for all the population and in every season so is meat, cheese and yogurt.

The dairy and poultry sector manure can be used as fertiliser (reducing further reliance on fertilisers). Government should not only support (tax breaks etc) these sectors but also introduce quality control measures. This quality control will help us certify our products in the world market so after processing of meat and milk we will be able to export. I can write about other related sectors (textiles etc) but I think this should be enough to start a thought process in younger generation.

All of the above is useless unless until we start to work for our future and make a change at an individual level. As I am a strong believer that individuals make a community, village, city and a nation. So, do your part it doesn’t even have to be big. Just introduce Faith, Unity and Discipline in your lives. Be steadfast and march on for a better tomorrow.

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## Sheikh Rauf

Ya Allah riha kerday aab zabt e gham say
Kay aab roya nahi jata.


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## 313ghazi

@Shah01 great effort. I have a few thoughts regarding exports. You are right that we can't really afford not to import certain things and obviously a ban on imports or extremely prohibitive tarriffs will increase costs. This is why when i mentioned it, i said it out to be phased in and not target essentials. The list of top 10 items is very useful, I think we can make a big dent on a lot of those. 

1. Oil - 33% of our electricity comes from burning oil. The state should make a big push to change this to solar/coal/wind. This should be done with private/public collaboration (grants for switching to green energy, tax breaks for businesses who do). I'd even suggest that long term it's worth borrowing to fix this issue. If we can setup a plant to manufacture wind farms and solar panels / associated kit domestically (ToT with a foreign company) then we can get rid of some of the big costs of getting it to market. 

2. From what I understand I think our trade with China is ruppee/Yaun rather than dollar? If that is the case we should reduce tarrifs on essential goods from China making them cheaper for the market and encourage these to be purchased from there. 

---

I am also a big believer in the importance of agriculture. We need to be growing everything we eat - everything. I think to this extent the state needs to provide scholarships for people to study agriculture. The sector is backwards and needs educated minds to help re-invigorate it. The average farmer won't be studying a degree course, but trained agriculturalists could be hired by the state to help encourage and roll out the sorts of changes you proposed. If they are local people then the trust barrier is easier to overcome too. If the son of a farmer turns around his dads farm and starts making profits from it - its a living example to others. If a bureaucrat shows up and tells you to try different seed - people wonder what the catch is. 

My other idea which others will find controversial is the state itself being involved in farming. I believe the state should invest in converting state owned land into largescale farms. The operation and the management of the farms should be down by private companies, but the state should own the land and the produce. 

Contracts should be given to private companies to run these farms that stipulate that modern farming techniques have to be used and the farm should be managed in partnership with a state agriculturalist who will provide a degree of oversight and expertise. The contracts should have targets for the yield per acre to make sure we're getting international standards. 

The companies running the farms should get paid by the state after the sale of the produce and should get 50% of any profits after costs. The produce should be sold directly through government owned stores or through a wholesaler acting on behalf of the state (again where the contract only covers costs, not profiteering on produce). 

The aim should be to get food to the domestic market at lesser prices than the private sector (whilst still covering costs through sales, not through subsidies or taxpayer burden). 

To compensate the private sector (particularly small scale farmers who aren't Subsistence farmers), the state should work with another private company that buys produce from local farmers and exports it, splitting a share of the export profits (after costs) with local farmers too. This company again should have hired agriculturists who work with the small farmers to ensure produce generated is of export quality.



Indus Pakistan said:


> At least you understand. Thanks ...



You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. I think you made a great point, but everything that ensued afterwards was regretable from all involved.

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## Solomon2

Shah01 said:


> ...4. Seed selection: This is very important. After soil testing appropriate seed should be selected in order to get the most yield. Seed treatment should be applied before seeding etc. So, there should be seminars/workshops for farmers to introduce them to new techniques. Some seed research should also be done. Take example of Israel -





313ghazi said:


> ...If the son of a farmer turns around his dads farm and starts making profits from it - its a living example to others. If a bureaucrat shows up and tells you to try different seed - people wonder what the catch is.



Hold on a moment. It's been fifty years since Borlaug's Green Revolution that effectively ended South Asia's begging bowl. And you're telling me that Pakistan STILL doesn't fund its own seed research institutes with dedicated farmer relations outreach?


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## 313ghazi

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> My friend,
> 
> A very good and structured attempt towards finding solution.
> 
> If I may ask you to read your solution and critically analyse it once again. What is the essential to implement such a plan?
> 
> Timeframe? Required resources? Required Development Model?
> 
> Somehow I know you will dig deeper....
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mangus



I'm going to focus on the bits of my plan that we the people can do. In true capitalist spirit, screw the state, we need to take matters into our own hands. I'm a big fan of IK and PTI, but we can't sit around waiting to see if he's cut out for the job. 

I'm going to reflect for a moment on my experiences with British Pakistani's in the UK. We often joke that if one person starts something and is successful - everyone has to do the same until the market becomes saturated and nobody is making money. British Pakistanis regularly invest in SME's and the type of businesses we invest in are getting more and more creative as people are more educated; but the trend of people following what others do exists. 

For example;

In the 80's when the factories closes our elders all started getting into taxi, or setting up takeaways/resturants and grocery stores. More recently everyone started selling mobile phones, doing insurance claims and personal injury firms. For a while everyone was opening up Gourmet burger places, steakhouses, Shisha cafes and dessert parlours. There was a sudden increase in barbers and builders. 

Why is this? Are we unimaginative? Do we do it to spite out friends who are doing well in a field? *No*. It's about ease of entry to market. If someone you know is already involved in a business - they can ease you into it, help you avoid the mistakes you made. In recent years many people I know have made a lot of money selling on amazon - i even tried it (personal circumstances meant i abandoned the project before it took off, but i intend to enter the market again).

I have mentioned earlier that the state should focus on helping people improve their businesses and export their products. Fill in the gaps in peoples knowledge that stop them from being successful. I was in Morocco earlier on this year and saw some of the crafts being produced and exported. The best peices were for foreign customers. It was amazing and is a model we should try to replicate.

I think there is scope for people to do this in the private sector too. People could setup companies who could do this for a fee - or a percentage of increased future profits perhaps? There are incubators and kickstarters out there already, but there is so much scope for more. 

Now I have a degree in Computer Science and have a background in the Finance, Healthcare and Education industries. I'm not best placed to setup such a company. I could probably do a lot of analysis, but I lack the understanding of the business world to work with the findings and push a business forwards. So who is? 

I think the skill sets required are a spectrum. Your team needs Business analysts, people with knowlede of avertisement, e-commerce, finance, project management and an understanding of ISO-9001 standards, held together with people who've done business studies, or have MBAs. You'd also need people with a background in the markets you work in. 

I think such a team, working even part time and weekends, could target businesses and turn them around to increase profits and ultimately become exporters of products rather than raw goods. The question is can you find enough talented people, setup them up and make a business model which works for them?



Solomon2 said:


> Hold on a moment. It's been fifty years since Borlaug's Green Revolution that effectively ended South Asia's begging bowl. And you're telling me that Pakistan STILL doesn't fund its own seed research institutes with dedicated farmer relations outreach?



We're not getting clean drinking water right yet. What do you think!

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

313ghazi said:


> I'm going to focus on the bits of my plan that we the people can do. In true capitalist spirit, screw the state, we need to take matters into our own hands. I'm a big fan of IK and PTI, but we can't sit around waiting to see if he's cut out for the job.
> 
> I'm going to reflect for a moment on my experiences with British Pakistani's in the UK. We often joke that if one person starts something and is successful - everyone has to do the same until the market becomes saturated and nobody is making money. British Pakistanis regularly invest in SME's and the type of businesses we invest in are getting more and more creative as people are more educated; but the trend of people following what others do exists.
> 
> For example;
> 
> In the 80's when the factories closes our elders all started getting into taxi, or setting up takeaways/resturants and grocery stores. More recently everyone started selling mobile phones, doing insurance claims and personal injury firms. For a while everyone was opening up Gourmet burger places, steakhouses, Shisha cafes and dessert parlours. There was a sudden increase in barbers and builders.
> 
> Why is this? Are we unimaginative? Do we do it to spite out friends who are doing well in a field? *No*. It's about ease of entry to market. If someone you know is already involved in a business - they can ease you into it, help you avoid the mistakes you made. In recent years many people I know have made a lot of money selling on amazon - i even tried it (personal circumstances meant i abandoned the project before it took off, but i intend to enter the market again).
> 
> I have mentioned earlier that the state should focus on helping people improve their businesses and export their products. Fill in the gaps in peoples knowledge that stop them from being successful. I was in Morocco earlier on this year and saw some of the crafts being produced and exported. The best peices were for foreign customers. It was amazing and is a model we should try to replicate.
> 
> I think there is scope for people to do this in the private sector too. People could setup companies who could do this for a fee - or a percentage of increased future profits perhaps? There are incubators and kickstarters out there already, but there is so much scope for more.
> 
> Now I have a degree in Computer Science and have a background in the Finance, Healthcare and Education industries. I'm not best placed to setup such a company. I could probably do a lot of analysis, but I lack the understanding of the business world to work with the findings and push a business forwards. So who is?
> 
> I think the skill sets required are a spectrum. Your team needs Business analysts, people with knowlede of avertisement, e-commerce, finance, project management and an understanding of ISO-9001 standards, held together with people who've done business studies, or have MBAs. You'd also need people with a background in the markets you work in.
> 
> I think such a team, working even part time and weekends, could target businesses and turn them around to increase profits and ultimately become exporters of products rather than raw goods. The question is can you find enough talented people, setup them up and make a business model which works for them?
> 
> 
> 
> We're not getting clean drinking water right yet. What do you think!



My Pak friend,

This is exactly my purpose to post my article... to invite all Paks, from everywhere, to Structured Thinking... 

From Rational Problem Definition to Solution Space.... then to have a frame of reference where we can engage each other more meaningfully. Otherwise, it is just comments/ fights.... or pretence of knowing...

May be tomorrow or so I shall post a Pak specific Economic Framework... but I do enjoy it a lot when you guys keep thinking... 

Keep it up!

Mangus

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## Solomon2

313ghazi said:


> We're not getting clean drinking water right yet. What do you think!


Now you have me thinking about how many wells could be dug for the price of one atomic bomb or Al-Khalid MBT.


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## niaz

A good analytical article about Pak economy.

*Economy of fools*
Aasim Sajjad AkhtarUpdated April 05, 2019





The writer teaches at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad.

THE more things change, the more they stay the same. This adage captures much about state policy in Pakistan, but perhaps social and economic ‘reform’ most of all. The current hue and cry about the precarious state of the economy and the reforms necessary to get things back on track is remarkable precisely because it has all be said and done before. Many, many times.

The indefatigable Khurram Husain wrote yesterday about the three attempts at ‘adjusting’ the economy over the past decade — in fact ‘structural adjustment’ of the economy has been ongoing for more than 30 years! It was in 1988 that the first set of loan arrangements were agreed under the Structural Adjustment Programme between the PPP government and the IMF. Surely by now adjustment would have been successfully completed?

Every political regime here for more than three decades has spewed the same rhetoric about inheriting a mess from its predecessors, the need for urgent reform, and the unavoidability of swallowing the bitter pill of ‘adjustment’.

The regime then claims to have turned a corner — thanks in large part to aid handouts — but the turnaround is inevitably short-lived and things reach their lowest ebb by the end of the government’s tenure.

The next election cycle rolls around and the farce plays out again.

The role of the IMF and other multilateral and country donors in this story must certainly not be understated.

Aid packages are always accompanied by conditionalities; the money comes only if ‘structural adjustment’ of the economy is ensured.

It is always the same — privatise loss-making public enterprises, reduce government expenditures (and subsidies in particular), liberalise trade and financial markets, and make sure that the foreign investors are given incentives to bring in the big bucks.

In recent years, with ‘institutions’ in vogue in Western academic and policymaking circles, emphasis has also been placed on improving the performance of government institutions (via a never-ending supply of ‘expert’ consultancies).

Every political regime here has spewed the same rhetoric.

So if we’ve been doing this for the best part of 30 years, why is adjustment still necessary?

In short, because the world remains at the behest of financial oligarchs whose desire to pillage the resources of ‘underdeveloped’ regions whilst also monopolising emerging consumer markets is never satiated.

‘Adjustment’ is a barely disguised policy that removes all the regulations designed to provide at least some safeguards to the toiling classes that, until the 1980s, were a bona fide ‘stakeholder’ in the policy matrix in all countries.

It was in the late 1970s that the Keynesian policy frameworks that dominated the post Second World War period — featuring high levels of government intervention in the economy and the allocation of a substantial share of resources to labour — were displaced by what is now known as economic neoliberalism, or Washington Consensus.

At the time this ‘Consensus’ was forged by arch-conservatives like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher in the West, with handymen like Gens Zia and Pinochet doing the job in the East.

Organised labour and the political left were depicted as enemies of freedom — of the individual and the market — and almost 40 years later, the intellectual and political discourse in countries like ours is almost devoid of mention of the class wars that undergirded the shift towards neoliberalism.

The same is not true in Western countries.

The collapse of financial institutions between 2007-09 meant the ideological monopoly of neoliberalism was decisively challenged. Today, young educated people trying to secure a decent standard of living in an age of unbridled consumerism have become aware of the grave danger that ‘free market’ capitalism poses to their own well-being, and future generations.

It is high time that the young population of this country learns about the history of ‘adjustment’ so that at least the possibility arises of arresting the policy merry-go-round we have witnessed over the past three decades.

It was inevitable that the ‘tabdeeli’ brigade would falter as all others have before it — the crisis of political representation is directly related to the hegemony of neoliberal development models that no government dare challenge.

What is not inevitable is that we remain an economy of fools forever. Embryonic popular awakenings in different parts of the world about the need to once again consider an alternative to capitalism offer us hope.

The so-called experts will continue trying to convince us that the same old ‘reforms’ are necessary and bank on handouts from the IMF, the UAE, China or whoever is willing.

The real reforms we need are not rocket science: recover the commons (health, education, housing, employment, nature) from the profiteers, audit and reduce defence spending, and stop taking ‘painful’ steps that hurt the poor, and, instead, inflict some pain on the rich.

_The writer teaches at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad._

_Published in Dawn, April 5th, 2019_

https://www.dawn.com/news/1474072/economy-of-fools

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## Khafee

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> The so-called economists on TV or financial experts are all paid agents of neo-liberal school and IMF stooges. It is their job to create chaos....
> 
> If I tell you that within five years Pak can pay off its loans and create a long term growth framework... no one will believe me... but just as @Khafee posted... a clean bleaching is needed. Can Pak State do that?
> 
> *Ever wondered why Pak State never aggressively explored natural resources? *



Not in the interest of those who want to see PK in the vicious circle of the debt yoke, so ultimately the nuclear program is abandoned / rolled back.



niaz said:


> A good analytical article about Pak economy.
> 
> *Economy of fools*
> Aasim Sajjad AkhtarUpdated April 05, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The writer teaches at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad.
> 
> THE more things change, the more they stay the same. This adage captures much about state policy in Pakistan, but perhaps social and economic ‘reform’ most of all. The current hue and cry about the precarious state of the economy and the reforms necessary to get things back on track is remarkable precisely because it has all be said and done before. Many, many times.
> 
> The indefatigable Khurram Husain wrote yesterday about the three attempts at ‘adjusting’ the economy over the past decade — in fact ‘structural adjustment’ of the economy has been ongoing for more than 30 years! It was in 1988 that the first set of loan arrangements were agreed under the Structural Adjustment Programme between the PPP government and the IMF. Surely by now adjustment would have been successfully completed?
> 
> Every political regime here for more than three decades has spewed the same rhetoric about inheriting a mess from its predecessors, the need for urgent reform, and the unavoidability of swallowing the bitter pill of ‘adjustment’.
> 
> The regime then claims to have turned a corner — thanks in large part to aid handouts — but the turnaround is inevitably short-lived and things reach their lowest ebb by the end of the government’s tenure.
> 
> The next election cycle rolls around and the farce plays out again.
> 
> The role of the IMF and other multilateral and country donors in this story must certainly not be understated.
> 
> Aid packages are always accompanied by conditionalities; the money comes only if ‘structural adjustment’ of the economy is ensured.
> 
> It is always the same — privatise loss-making public enterprises, reduce government expenditures (and subsidies in particular), liberalise trade and financial markets, and make sure that the foreign investors are given incentives to bring in the big bucks.
> 
> In recent years, with ‘institutions’ in vogue in Western academic and policymaking circles, emphasis has also been placed on improving the performance of government institutions (via a never-ending supply of ‘expert’ consultancies).
> 
> Every political regime here has spewed the same rhetoric.
> 
> So if we’ve been doing this for the best part of 30 years, why is adjustment still necessary?
> 
> In short, because the world remains at the behest of financial oligarchs whose desire to pillage the resources of ‘underdeveloped’ regions whilst also monopolising emerging consumer markets is never satiated.
> 
> ‘Adjustment’ is a barely disguised policy that removes all the regulations designed to provide at least some safeguards to the toiling classes that, until the 1980s, were a bona fide ‘stakeholder’ in the policy matrix in all countries.
> 
> It was in the late 1970s that the Keynesian policy frameworks that dominated the post Second World War period — featuring high levels of government intervention in the economy and the allocation of a substantial share of resources to labour — were displaced by what is now known as economic neoliberalism, or Washington Consensus.
> 
> At the time this ‘Consensus’ was forged by arch-conservatives like Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher in the West, with handymen like Gens Zia and Pinochet doing the job in the East.
> 
> Organised labour and the political left were depicted as enemies of freedom — of the individual and the market — and almost 40 years later, the intellectual and political discourse in countries like ours is almost devoid of mention of the class wars that undergirded the shift towards neoliberalism.
> 
> The same is not true in Western countries.
> 
> The collapse of financial institutions between 2007-09 meant the ideological monopoly of neoliberalism was decisively challenged. Today, young educated people trying to secure a decent standard of living in an age of unbridled consumerism have become aware of the grave danger that ‘free market’ capitalism poses to their own well-being, and future generations.
> 
> It is high time that the young population of this country learns about the history of ‘adjustment’ so that at least the possibility arises of arresting the policy merry-go-round we have witnessed over the past three decades.
> 
> It was inevitable that the ‘tabdeeli’ brigade would falter as all others have before it — the crisis of political representation is directly related to the hegemony of neoliberal development models that no government dare challenge.
> 
> What is not inevitable is that we remain an economy of fools forever. Embryonic popular awakenings in different parts of the world about the need to once again consider an alternative to capitalism offer us hope.
> 
> The so-called experts will continue trying to convince us that the same old ‘reforms’ are necessary and bank on handouts from the IMF, the UAE, China or whoever is willing.
> 
> The real reforms we need are not rocket science: recover the commons (health, education, housing, employment, nature) from the profiteers, audit and reduce defence spending, and stop taking ‘painful’ steps that hurt the poor, and, instead, *inflict some pain on the rich*.
> 
> _The writer teaches at Quaid-i-Azam University, Islamabad._
> 
> _Published in Dawn, April 5th, 2019_
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1474072/economy-of-fools



Well the bottom line was literally at the bottom, but right it is "*i**nflict some pain on the rich*."

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## VCheng

niaz said:


> The real reforms we need are not rocket science: *recover the commons (health, education,* housing, employment, nature) from the profiteers, audit and *reduce defence spending*, and stop taking ‘painful’ steps that hurt the poor, and, instead, *inflict some pain on the rich*.



In other words, no meaningful reforms are likely.

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## CrazyZ

Dubious said:


> Economic future of Pakistan linked with enhancement of exports: Imran Khan
> April 04, 2019
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prime Minister Imran Khan says economic future of Pakistan is linked with enhancement of exports which so far have remained far below the actual potential.
> 
> He was chairing 80th meeting of Board of Administrators of Export Development Fund in Islamabad today (Thursday).
> 
> The Prime Minister said in past, revenue-centric economic policies with overemphasis on collection of revenues made the industry uncompetitive. He said the PTI government has made a paradigm shift in prioritizing the competitiveness of industry vis-à-vis revenue collection.
> 
> The meeting approved budget and the schedule of activities to be held during four-day TEXPO Exhibition 2019 at Lahore Expo Centre on 11th of this month.
> 
> 
> http://www.radio.gov.pk/04-04-2019/economic-future-of-pakistan-linked-with-enhancement-of-exports-pm
> 
> 
> So 1 issue is being addressed! What next?



Pakistan's exports of goods and services as % of GDP is 8%, is the third lowest in the world. Global average is 35%, for China and India its around 20%.



Umar Nazir said:


> currently biggest issue for economy is massive loans, govt should try to reschedule loan as Mushraff did in the past



The Americans will consider debt restructuring only if Pakistan does every thing they want.....which is politically unacceptable. This would not resolve the forex problem.


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## Dubious

CrazyZ said:


> Pakistan's exports of goods and services as % of GDP is 8%, is the third lowest in the world. Global average is 35%, for China and India its around 20%.


Why is it so low? And why hasnt any govt bothered to improve it?

I mean even the common crook must know that IF Pakistan has more, they can loot more, right?

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Khafee said:


> Not in the interest of those who want to see PK in the vicious circle of the debt yoke, so ultimately the nuclear program is abandoned / rolled back.
> 
> 
> 
> Well the bottom line was literally at the bottom, but right it is "*i**nflict some pain on the rich*."


.


With Friends like you.... no rollback or default or crap of any kind can happen. 

UAE has always been there for Pak along with KSA. What you guys did with rolling back of the anti-Pak spy network is worth writing a novel!

KSA-UAE-Pak are Brothers-in-Arms to the End!

Somany things... and a new geo-strategic, politico-economic phase is now Finally underway... this time Persian-perel won't be allowed to spoil the party!

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## KhanBaba2

CHACHA"G" said:


> Yes , but does that mean we don't have to start ????????????? If we start this year we will see full fruits in 2025 …….. Just after 6 years …….



Of course you should start right now. 

To earn 1 billion dollar you will need to export around 100 million kg. Research by Canadian Roundtable for Sustainable Beef ( I can't upload links) says you need 631 liters water per kg beef. You can do the math.

Your country is water stressed. You have to act now to start building dams. Or push for better crop irrigation methods. Otherwise all your hopes of increasing income by agriculture will be dashed. Your government is doing nothing on either of these fronts. Just giving speeches about going for cattle export will get you nowhere. Where is the cattle feed. What are the plans for increasing cattle feed production.

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## Shah01

313ghazi said:


> 1. Oil - 33% of our electricity comes from burning oil.


This is do able easily with very little government intervention by providing net metering for every household and installing solar panels (similar to UK). The benefit is two fold; Reduce the distribution losses plus also reduce demand at peak times (during summer). Same goes for agriculture; Install solar panels for tube wells and irrigate for free (no load on the grid, win win).



313ghazi said:


> My other idea which others will find controversial is the state itself being involved in farming.





313ghazi said:


> Contracts should be given to private companies to run these farms that stipulate that modern farming techniques have to be used and the farm should be managed in partnership with a state agriculturalist who will provide a degree of oversight and expertise


​No state intervention please. It will ruin the farming sector. Nepotism will flourish when giving out contracts and this will become another loss making sector for the government (tax payer).
This:



313ghazi said:


> In true capitalist spirit, screw the state, we need to take matters into our own hands.


​I would like people to stop complaining and start acting. Work towards the future you would like to see for your next generation. Imagine the possibilities and work for them. Give a better Pakistan to the next generation.



Solomon2 said:


> Pakistan STILL doesn't fund its own seed research institutes with dedicated farmer relations outreach?


Well the research institutes are in their nascent state. It will take time and funding to get to a point where the west stands.



Dubious said:


> I mean even the common crook must know that IF Pakistan has more, they can loot more, right?


Nope. You will be amazed to know that common crook doesn't understand this. They have the mentality of looting everything today as there is no tomorrow.

@313ghazi I like your idea of pooling funds and starting a cooperative. This could setup value add industry for the agriculture. Although Pakistanis are long way from understanding cooperatives as the nation lacks the virtues needed for cooperation. I invite everyone who is exploring such ideas to get together and discuss things in person.
I will probably write something on Taxation if I get the chance.

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## POPEYE-Sailor

Here is nice explanation


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## Dubious

Shah01 said:


> Nope. You will be amazed to know that common crook doesn't understand this. They have the mentality of looting everything today as there is no tomorrow.


That is the sad bit even our crooks are stupid

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

*Economic Solutions' Framework: Laying the Foundation for a Sustainable Economy*

All economies and their performace is the refelction of politics. 

Dollar dominance is the result of politics.

Yuan management and slow, controlled trading is result of politics. Japanese property boom and bust was result of politics. ASEAN 'miracle' boom/bust/boom...politics. Buying T-bills is result of political decision.

Euro is purely a political decision. Had no underlying economic need other than trans-atlantic decision making and tightly nitting mainland Europe into a political entity. Ask PIGS the price they are paying for this. Greece, let us not forget.

The point is all economies mean political expression i.e. political economy. Just have a look at resource rich countries and their political make-up and their related economic performace.

If we look at the Pak economic history... apart from mere 7-9 years period of 1960s... primarily Pak economy has been a rentnier economy living off loans and aid packages. This is evident at both macro and micro level. The industrial, banking and export sector has the same behaviour. Just enough investment to keep things going. 

No business or tech innovation. Getting the money out of the country or creating foreign shell (trading) companies to either under or over invoice. In any case just looking at the conoutry, consciously or unconsciouly, as a colony. The elite has all its assets abroad. An estimated $200 to $300 Bln is total net capital or assets abroad. Not all of it belongs to politicos.

In other words, if only Paks can invest in Pak then no foreign investment is needed. BD export boom in textile is Pak investor driven. Malaysia another destination. Again not all of it criminal produce but rather escaped capital due to 20 years of WOT and Karachi Burning.

We could indulge deeper about money sent back form Overseas Paks... through _hundi_... but the picture is there. 

*The Point!?: Pak is NOT a poor country.*

*What is a Developed Economy:*

We can go into standard, known, features such as ease of doing business and all that jazz... however, let us focus on the quint essence of a developed or developing economy with solid foundations.

In essence a strong economy is a Giant Rules Engine with strong Exception Management System. Everything designed for Flow in the Process. Nothing else. 
Without this there cann't be any innovation or business growth. Even in a communist political system of China one can easily find this fact.

A passing look at Pak's economy or general taxation system will show that the entire legislation is designed to retard economy activity. Or in other words a system designed to squeeze as much as possible from citizens and Pak State. 

This in nutshell is the current Political Economy of Pakistan.

*What Could be the Pak Political Economy?*

Socialism? No!

Neo-liberal Capitalism? No!

Humanism? Yes

The very Idea of Pak was driven by a sense of this. To have a place where Paks could become Free Humans according to their unique Civilisational Heritage. Why else swim through ocean of blood?

Do the laws, regulations enable the advancement of Human Condition in Pak at the moment? Or do these enable the oppositie? Be it courts, civil services or daily life?

Except for 5 years under Ayyub Khan... Pak has been primarily a parlimentary system with British laws. These laws were designed to govern a Colony not a Free State. Yet Pak is still under the same laws. The entire legal framework is geared towards Control rather than progress.

This, however, is a separate discussion. Nevertheless, extremely relevant. But not now....

*Creating a Humanist Economy:*

With more than 50% living under the poverty line and 64% youth buldge redical steps need to be taken to Save The Social Fabric. 

As an Artificial Intelligence dominated world is here... creating jobs for all these young population is a tremedous challenge. 

Given the scope of this Framework I am forced to briefly highlight areas of focus and reform. Each element requires a Whitepaper in its own right. 

*1) Land Reforms:*

Serfs living in Sindh or South Punjab are good to vote for Never Dying Bhutto but to elevate them from sub-human levels it is necessary that the landless farmers be given land from the Unionists who opposed the very Idea of Pak i.e. today's electables

*2) Population Act:*

A two child policy needs to be implemented under National Emergency Act. Easy said than done... but it must.

*3) Education Act*

A unified, standardised educational system from GB to Gawadar. In order to create ease of mobility in the job market later this is essential. Salaries of the teachers be the highest of any government employee. Only the best and highly educated should be hired through qualification exames. Only for 5 years. For renewal qualificaiton exame.

Free food and books. Any mismangement or theft means life in prison. You can forgive murders but not those who steal from educational instituitions. Compulsary education till 18 with focus on science, tech and paractial industrial skills. Urdu as medium. English as second.

*4) Public Services Act*

No more permanent government jobs. An AI based performance management system for all government employees. Except for Foreign Office. 
Dismantle CSS. Direct hiring based on experience in business.
Create a country wide Rules Engine based on open source Enterprise Architecture spread across the country on Blockchain.

*5) One Tax Act*

Paks, poor ones, are criminally taxed through indirect taxes. On the other end corporate sector has the worlds highest tax ratio. This again is the reflection of rentnier mentality/system.

No sales or wealth tax. 

A single Tax % for everyone living above the poverty line. This % has to be the same i.e. propotional to the income. If some earns a million he/she pays same % relative to income to someone who earns less. Justice in taxation.

Dismental tax office. Bring in AI solutions. Custom duties also be governed by unmanned systems. Pak State will have more revenues this way than any other schemes.

*6) Agriculture Revolution*

Per hectre yield of Pak farming lands is horribly low. This needs to become threefold at least. This is far easier way to reduce poverty than anything else. 

The entire value chain related to Agri i.e. irrigation, machinery, fertilizers, storage, farm-to-market needs to be Pak made. Herein Value Addtion and Food processing/packaging is critical. Easily done. Just take out the parasites and redtape.

Biotechnology parks for Pak tech firms be established with 10 year tax break... provided there is complete tech transfer and skills development of Young Pak techies... Also essential that these have to be JVs only. No foreign firm be given this. Ban GMO except for cotton seeds.

Genetic Sciences and Tech centres of excellence and related business spin-off with subsidy and tax breaks for ten years.

*7) Industrial Revolution*

There is no luxury of time... from pure mannual labour intensive to high tech Pak must establish SEZs in all areas. Higher tax breaks for high tech. The key policy is to make Everything in Pak. Period. 

Electronics, manufacturing and processing industries must be the focus in the first phase. Focus on transportation i.e. cars, buses, truck, high PK tractors etc. More competition the better. #BanSuzuki

*8) IT Cities*

There is a scope for at least four IT cities in Pakistan. Same as 7 policy should be to part of each step of the IT value chain. With Social Responsibility Act required of all IT companies to train young Paks through Skill Centres and Internships.

*9) Banking Sector Reform*

Pak banking sector is lazy. It has been fattening up by lending to government. Pak must allow competition by creating a Credit Issuing Agency.

Banking sector is owned by the same #CriminalEnterprise which own IPPs. Go figure!

*10) Energy Act*

IPPs be opened and tried under Economic Terrorism Act by special courts. Furthermore, renewable must form at least 50% of the energy mix. Dams. Dams and more dams.

Also, the need for Intelligent National Grid is critical. Nobody has paid any attention to transmission for last 30 years.

*11) 10 New Cities*

Firstly, Master Plan for Gwadar needs to be revisited with an eye on making it a second Karachi. Apart from this 10 small and medium seized cities needs to be planned using best practices available, in accordance to geography.

The cities must have a long term perspective to make them viable i.e miroc economically viable centres. Time to look at cities a different lens.

*12) Free Karachi Act*

Pass law to declare Karachi a Federal City or Second Capital of the State. Free Karachi from all political mafias. 
Make Karachi go up. Must also be done for Lahore as well.

*13) Tourism Yes, Disneyland No*

There is no country like Pak. From GB to Gwadar... However, it is equally important that the 10000 years old Civilisation does everything possible to retain a distinct cultural and social hue.

The very distinct Pak Hospitality... the essence of Pak culture... is a Brand like no other. It is not just the landscape but the Pak People. It needs to be markted wisely.

Welcome to the Land of Dancing Horse

Welcome to the Oldest Living Cities

Welcome to the Oldest Civilisation

*Paks are NOT whites... so trying to become would be useless. Then neither would be white nor Pak. Something which requires deep meditation!*

*14) Free Internet*

With 5G coming this should enable in economic transformation. Fintech and Alibaba... can help women and young to have their goods /handicrafts sold worldwide.

Pak must also lauch statelites in this regard to provide free highspeed internet to all Paks.

*15) Trains, trains and more trains*

At the moment the entire train infrastructure is in shambles. Pak must plan for longterm and high speed trains... electric transmission. In this regard apart form track agreement... local manufacturing agreement with China needs to be signed.

Here blindly follow Chinese strategy. 

*16) China Model Yes, China Model No*

China could do all those things because China is China. China doesn't have #DieselMullahs or ZAB or NS or #CriminalEnterprise

So following Chinese Model is not that easy. However, the elments of the Chinese Model can be implemented in Pak development.

A Thinktank of Sino-Pak Socio-Economists can become part of Sino-Pak Strategic Cooperation Framework.

*17) MIC Pak & Co.*

The expansion in Pak MIC and vertical integeration of private enterprises is needed. Not just lipservice. The export potential in product and services is huge and needs to become part of Military and Economic Diplomacy.
*
18) CPEC... to be a Road or a Bridge*

CPEC can only deliver fruits for Paks if there is actualisation of SEZs, financial/trading centres and related services industry boom in Pak for China, MENA and Africa. 

If Pak becomes just a road for China then the loss will be immense. Something to ponder.

And finally....

*19) Financial System*

At the moment Paks hold more gold privately than the State. Not bad for the people but bad for economy. RekoDig needs to be given protection under National Security Act. And all that gold must go straight to the State. PKR must have some underpinning of gold. It is miserably exposed.

#PetroPKR ??? Well it can be done but nobody has the guts to do it. Besides... too early in the game... so no flying horse just yet

Pak needs to plan today if and how it wants to escape the middle income trap...... the only solutions is spending equally on education as defence... perhaps double.

#2047PakAt100

@Reddington @zulu @Dubious @Khafee @niaz well gents, first attempt. Obviously, requires more detail in each facet. But then it becomes a book on Transformation!

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## VCheng

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> All economies and their performace is the refelction of politics.



An excellent post, but that basic premise may be argued the other way: Politics follow the economy, and not the other way around. The dollar is dominant because it is underwritten by the US economy, just as the Euro, Yen and Yuan are by their respective export oriented juggernauts.

The steps you propose are excellent, of course, but need that foundation too, if the PKR and the economy it represents is to deliver the humane model you propose for Pakistanis.

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## zulu

@Mangus Ortus Novem going to reply soon as it demands some research and effort to give real possible to do action plans.Man every points of yours deamnd full thread of its own  i will inform and skip on parts where i got no exp and knowledge @Dubious @waz @Horus we need some control on our thread to keep it on topic and deleting junk /trolls response otherwise no point of such hard effort if its going to crap

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

VCheng said:


> An excellent post, but that basic premise may be argued the other way: Politics follow the economy, and not the other way around. The dollar is dominant because it is underwritten by the US economy, just as the Euro, Yen and Yuan are by their respective export oriented juggernauts.
> 
> The steps you propose are excellent, of course, but need that foundation too, if the PKR and the economy it represents is to deliver the humane model you propose for Pakistanis.





My dear Pak,

I guess I left the foundational political system intentionally out... for that we need to have a different dicussion thread. Otherwise, things get confused.

The very purpose of Pakistan was/is not to have a purposeless, directionless state so that people could die their hair blone...nothing wrong with it... but it underlines something deeper.

Without creating a political sytem that enables the Human Dignity, Development and Full Human Expression within the framework of Pak's Unique Civilisational Heritage... ship of the Pak State will remain adrift...directionless, soulless vessel.

The current sytem of #CriminalEnterprise is collapsing... IK cann't deliver. He is in Prisoner's Deilema.

But we will dig it further as we progress with that particular discussion.

Keep #PakPositive and #SayYesToJinnahModel

Mangus

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## VCheng

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> The current sytem of #CriminalEnterprise is collapsing... *IK cann't deliver.* He is in Prisoner's Deilema.
> 
> But we will dig it further as we progress with that particular discussion.
> 
> Keep #PakPositive and #SayYesToJinnahModel
> 
> Mangus



I agree that the present system is collapsing, but failure is simply not an option for PMIK. He was brought into power as the last hope that would put Pakistan on the right path, finally. We are all praying for his success in regards to the economy first of all and many other matters to follow.

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## Reddington

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *Economic Solutions' Framework: Laying the Foundation for a Sustainable Economy*
> 
> All economies and their performace is the refelction of politics.
> 
> Dollar dominance is the result of politics.
> 
> Yuan management and slow, controlled trading is result of politics. Japanese property boom and bust was result of politics. ASEAN 'miracle' boom/bust/boom...politics. Buying T-bills is result of political decision.
> 
> Euro is purely a political decision. Had no underlying economic need other than trans-atlantic decision making and tightly nitting mainland Europe into a political entity. Ask PIGS the price they are paying for this. Greece, let us not forget.
> 
> The point is all economies mean political expression i.e. political economy. Just have a look at resource rich countries and their political make-up and their related economic performace.
> 
> If we look at the Pak economic history... apart from mere 7-9 years period of 1960s... primarily Pak economy has been a rentnier economy living off loans and aid packages. This is evident at both macro and micro level. The industrial, banking and export sector has the same behaviour. Just enough investment to keep things going.
> 
> No business or tech innovation. Getting the money out of the country or creating foreign shell (trading) companies to either under or over invoice. In any case just looking at the conoutry, consciously or unconsciouly, as a colony. The elite has all its assets abroad. An estimated $200 to $300 Bln is total net capital or assets abroad. Not all of it belongs to politicos.
> 
> In other words, if only Paks can invest in Pak then no foreign investment is needed. BD export boom in textile is Pak investor driven. Malaysia another destination. Again not all of it criminal produce but rather escaped capital due to 20 years of WOT and Karachi Burning.
> 
> We could indulge deeper about money sent back form Overseas Paks... through _hundi_... but the picture is there.
> 
> *The Point!?: Pak is NOT a poor country.*
> 
> *What is a Developed Economy:*
> 
> We can go into standard, known, features such as ease of doing business and all that jazz... however, let us focus on the quint essence of a developed or developing economy with solid foundations.
> 
> In essence a strong economy is a Giant Rules Engine with strong Exception Management System. Everything designed for Flow in the Process. Nothing else.
> Without this there cann't be any innovation or business growth. Even in a communist political system of China one can easily find this fact.
> 
> A passing look at Pak's economy or general taxation system will show that the entire legislation is designed to retard economy activity. Or in other words a system designed to squeeze as much as possible from citizens and Pak State.
> 
> This in nutshell is the current Political Economy of Pakistan.
> 
> *What Could be the Pak Political Economy?*
> 
> Socialism? No!
> 
> Neo-liberal Capitalism? No!
> 
> Humanism? Yes
> 
> The very Idea of Pak was driven by a sense of this. To have a place where Paks could become Free Humans according to their unique Civilisational Heritage. Why else swim through ocean of blood?
> 
> Do the laws, regulations enable the advancement of Human Condition in Pak at the moment? Or do these enable the oppositie? Be it courts, civil services or daily life?
> 
> Except for 5 years under Ayyub Khan... Pak has been primarily a parlimentary system with British laws. These laws were designed to govern a Colony not a Free State. Yet Pak is still under the same laws. The entire legal framework is geared towards Control rather than progress.
> 
> This, however, is a separate discussion. Nevertheless, extremely relevant. But not now....
> 
> *Creating a Humanist Economy:*
> 
> With more than 50% living under the poverty line and 64% youth buldge redical steps need to be taken to Save The Social Fabric.
> 
> As an Artificial Intelligence dominated world is here... creating jobs for all these young population is a tremedous challenge.
> 
> Given the scope of this Framework I am forced to briefly highlight areas of focus and reform. Each element requires a Whitepaper in its own right.
> 
> *1) Land Reforms:*
> 
> Serfs living in Sindh or South Punjab are good to vote for Never Dying Bhutto but to elevate them from sub-human levels it is necessary that the landless farmers be given land from the Unionists who opposed the very Idea of Pak i.e. today's electables
> 
> *2) Population Act:*
> 
> A two child policy needs to be implemented under National Emergency Act. Easy said than done... but it must.
> 
> *3) Education Act*
> 
> A unified, standardised educational system from GB to Gawadar. In order to create ease of mobility in the job market later this is essential. Salaries of the teachers be the highest of any government employee. Only the best and highly educated should be hired through qualification exames. Only for 5 years. For renewal qualificaiton exame.
> 
> Free food and books. Any mismangement or theft means life in prison. You can forgive murders but not those who steal from educational instituitions. Compulsary education till 18 with focus on science, tech and paractial industrial skills. Urdu as medium. English as second.
> 
> *4) Public Services Act*
> 
> No more permanent government jobs. An AI based performance management system for all government employees. Except for Foreign Office.
> Dismantle CSS. Direct hiring based on experience in business.
> Create a country wide Rules Engine based on open source Enterprise Architecture spread across the country on Blockchain.
> 
> *5) One Tax Act*
> 
> Paks, poor ones, are criminally taxed through indirect taxes. On the other end corporate sector has the worlds highest tax ratio. This again is the reflection of rentnier mentality/system.
> 
> No sales or wealth tax.
> 
> A single Tax % for everyone living above the poverty line. This % has to be the same i.e. propotional to the income. If some earns a million he/she pays same % relative to income to someone who earns less. Justice in taxation.
> 
> Dismental tax office. Bring in AI solutions. Custom duties also be governed by unmanned systems. Pak State will have more revenues this way than any other schemes.
> 
> *6) Agriculture Revolution*
> 
> Per hectre yield of Pak farming lands is horribly low. This needs to become threefold at least. This is far easier way to reduce poverty than anything else.
> 
> The entire value chain related to Agri i.e. irrigation, machinery, fertilizers, storage, farm-to-market needs to be Pak made. Herein Value Addtion and Food processing/packaging is critical. Easily done. Just take out the parasites and redtape.
> 
> Biotechnology parks for Pak tech firms be established with 10 year tax break... provided there is complete tech transfer and skills development of Young Pak techies... Also essential that these have to be JVs only. No foreign firm be given this. Ban GMO except for cotton seeds.
> 
> Genetic Sciences and Tech centres of excellence and related business spin-off with subsidy and tax breaks for ten years.
> 
> *7) Industrial Revolution*
> 
> There is no luxury of time... from pure mannual labour intensive to high tech Pak must establish SEZs in all areas. Higher tax breaks for high tech. The key policy is to make Everything in Pak. Period.
> 
> Electronics, manufacturing and processing industries must be the focus in the first phase. Focus on transportation i.e. cars, buses, truck, high PK tractors etc. More competition the better. #BanSuzuki
> 
> *8) IT Cities*
> 
> There is a scope for at least four IT cities in Pakistan. Same as 7 policy should be to part of each step of the IT value chain. With Social Responsibility Act required of all IT companies to train young Paks through Skill Centres and Internships.
> 
> *9) Banking Sector Reform*
> 
> Pak banking sector is lazy. It has been fattening up by lending to government. Pak must allow competition by creating a Credit Issuing Agency.
> 
> Banking sector is owned by the same #CriminalEnterprise which own IPPs. Go figure!
> 
> *10) Energy Act*
> 
> IPPs be opened and tried under Economic Terrorism Act by special courts. Furthermore, renewable must form at least 50% of the energy mix. Dams. Dams and more dams.
> 
> Also, the need for Intelligent National Grid is critical. Nobody has paid any attention to transmission for last 30 years.
> 
> *11) 10 New Cities*
> 
> Firstly, Master Plan for Gwadar needs to be revisited with an eye on making it a second Karachi. Apart from this 10 small and medium seized cities needs to be planned using best practices available, in accordance to geography.
> 
> The cities must have a long term perspective to make them viable i.e miroc economically viable centres. Time to look at cities a different lens.
> 
> *12) Free Karachi Act*
> 
> Pass law to declare Karachi a Federal City or Second Capital of the State. Free Karachi from all political mafias.
> Make Karachi go up. Must also be done for Lahore as well.
> 
> *13) Tourism Yes, Disneyland No*
> 
> There is no country like Pak. From GB to Gwadar... However, it is equally important that the 10000 years old Civilisation does everything possible to retain a distinct cultural and social hue.
> 
> The very distinct Pak Hospitality... the essence of Pak culture... is a Brand like no other. It is not just the landscape but the Pak People. It needs to be markted wisely.
> 
> Welcome to the Land of Dancing Horse
> 
> Welcome to the Oldest Living Cities
> 
> Welcome to the Oldest Civilisation
> 
> *Paks are NOT whites... so trying to become would be useless. Then neither would be white nor Pak. Something which requires deep meditation!*
> 
> *14) Free Internet*
> 
> With 5G coming this should enable in economic transformation. Fintech and Alibaba... can help women and young to have their goods /handicrafts sold worldwide.
> 
> Pak must also lauch statelites in this regard to provide free highspeed internet to all Paks.
> 
> *15) Trains, trains and more trains*
> 
> At the moment the entire train infrastructure is in shambles. Pak must plan for longterm and high speed trains... electric transmission. In this regard apart form track agreement... local manufacturing agreement with China needs to be signed.
> 
> Here blindly follow Chinese strategy.
> 
> *16) China Model Yes, China Model No*
> 
> China could do all those things because China is China. China doesn't have #DieselMullahs or ZAB or NS or #CriminalEnterprise
> 
> So following Chinese Model is not that easy. However, the elments of the Chinese Model can be implemented in Pak development.
> 
> A Thinktank of Sino-Pak Socio-Economists can become part of Sino-Pak Strategic Cooperation Framework.
> 
> *17) MIC Pak & Co.*
> 
> The expansion in Pak MIC and vertical integeration of private enterprises is needed. Not just lipservice. The export potential in product and services is huge and needs to become part of Military and Economic Diplomacy.
> *
> 18) CPEC... to be a Road or a Bridge*
> 
> CPEC can only deliver fruits for Paks if there is actualisation of SEZs, financial/trading centres and related services industry boom in Pak for China, MENA and Africa.
> 
> If Pak becomes just a road for China then the loss will be immense. Something to ponder.
> 
> And finally....
> 
> *19) Financial System*
> 
> At the moment Paks hold more gold privately than the State. Not bad for the people but bad for economy. RekoDig needs to be given protection under National Security Act. And all that gold must go straight to the State. PKR must have some underpinning of gold. It is miserably exposed.
> 
> #PetroPKR ??? Well it can be done but nobody has the guts to do it. Besides... too early in the game... so no flying horse just yet
> 
> Pak needs to plan today if and how it wants to escape the middle income trap...... the only solutions is spending equally on education as defence... perhaps double.
> 
> #2047PakAt100
> 
> @Reddington @zulu @Dubious @Khafee @niaz well gents, first attempt. Obviously, requires more detail in each facet. But then it becomes a book on Transformation!



Excellent post.



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *15) Trains, trains and more trains*
> 
> At the moment the entire train infrastructure is in shambles. Pak must plan for longterm and high speed trains... electric transmission. In this regard apart form track agreement... local manufacturing agreement with China needs to be signed.
> 
> Here blindly follow Chinese strategy



Agreed. Our infrastructure needs to be upgraded and modernized. There should be a network of motorways, electrified High speed Trains (300-350km/hr) all over Pakistan. We should ask China for help in this regard. I wish for the day when we can have 350kph High Speed Trains in Pakistan.



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *1) Land Reforms:*
> 
> Serfs living in Sindh or South Punjab are good to vote for Never Dying Bhutto but to elevate them from sub-human levels it is necessary that the landless farmers be given land from the Unionists who opposed the very Idea of Pak i.e. today's electables



Agreed. Land Reforms are a must. These Sardars, Waderas living in interior Sindh, Balochistan and South Punjab have kept people living in those areas in stone age. These people (e.g. Bhutto, Zardari, Talpur, Khosa, Jatoi, Leghari, Makhdoom etc) then control MPA's, MNA's, police, bureaucracy, judges etc. 

Also these people then become Peers and Sajjada Nasheens (like Makhdoom Shah Mehmood Qureshi). These people also run private jails and can kill anyone they want and nobody can touch them (e.g. Shahzaib murder case). 
Also, almost all of the electables in assemblies are these people.

The way I see it, there is only one way these feudal landlords can be dealt with. The way Mao Zedong dealt with feudal landlords in China in a brutal, cruel and ruthless manner. These feudal landlords are parasites.

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## zulu

Thats the most difficult question.Should we focus first to design and implement new system replacing that old corrupt system or we focus on things which can do and hope when all other parts of system start working better that the system get corrected itself .This way or that way?? time consuming,going to face lots of hurdles and corruption but i think second way also it will avoid chaos too 


Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> My dear Pak,
> 
> I guess I left the foundational political system intentionally out... for that we need to have a different dicussion thread. Otherwise, things get confused.
> 
> The very purpose of Pakistan was/is not to have a purposeless, directionless state so that people could die their hair blone...nothing wrong with it... but it underlines something deeper.
> 
> Without creating a political sytem that enables the Human Dignity, Development and Full Human Expression within the framework of Pak's Unique Civilisational Heritage... ship of the Pak State will remain adrift...directionless, soulless vessel.
> 
> The current sytem of #CriminalEnterprise is collapsing... IK cann't deliver. He is in Prisoner's Deilema.
> 
> But we will dig it further as we progress with that particular discussion.
> 
> Keep #PakPositive and #SayYesToJinnahModel
> 
> Mangus

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

zulu said:


> Thats the most difficult question.Should we focus first to design and implement new system replacing that old corrupt system or we focus on things which can do and hope when all other parts of system start working better that the system get corrected itself .This way or that way?? time consuming,going to face lots of hurdles and corruption but i think second way also it will avoid chaos too




Economy is total loss. Political system is impotent and ineffective. 

Debt crisis was designed for a far bigger game... Pak's Friends saved from this.

Political Economy means political economy.

Desolution of the current system to create a breathing space for a better system...in the meantime stablise current form of economic structure. Then through popular will #JinnahModel be implemented. A bit of clean up between these two stages...

Things shall happen in sequence....

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Economy is total loss. Political system is impotent and ineffective.
> 
> Debt crisis was designed for a far bigger game... Pak's Friends saved from this.
> 
> Political Economy means political economy.
> 
> Desolution of the current system to create a breathing space for a better system...in the meantime stablise current form of economic structure. Then through popular will #JinnahModel be implemented. A bit of clean up between these two stages...
> 
> Things shall happen in sequence....


Allow me to be the Devil's Advocate here!!!! According to Pak Public Accountants, ~70% of the transactions are undocumented/unregulated/untaxed etc.!!!! Is it done with the knowledge and consent of the Deep State even if the pie of the humongous corruption is taken out???? Now that the Pak Deep State to an extent is getting normalized by steadily aligning (starting from 180 degrees) with the Deep Nation, are they confident enough to slowly let their hold be normalized too???? I am pretty sure for the "strategic" matters 70% isn't exactly required provided reasonably patriotic folks are at the helms....

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## Fledgingwings

Pakistan needs to remove interest from economy and apply zakat on the ones meant to and things will start to get changed dramatically as we are promised with abundance of barkat regarding paying zakat by Allah.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Hakikat ve Hikmet said:


> Allow me to be the Devil's Advocate here!!!! According to Pak Public Accountants, ~70% of the transactions are undocumented/unregulated/untaxed etc.!!!! Is it done with the knowledge and consent of the Deep State even if the pie of the humongous corruption is taken out???? Now that the Pak Deep State to an extent is getting normalized by steadily aligning (starting from 180 degrees) with the Deep Nation, are they confident enough to slowly let their hold be normalized too???? I am pretty sure for the "strategic" matters 70% isn't exactly required provided reasonably patriotic folks are at the helms....




My dear friend,

Indeed. That was what was the need of the hour. 

Pak State has reached Strategic Independence now.... hence, after achieving condidtions for victory... it is time to do the battle with the #CriminalEnterprise.... time to roll their shop for good.

Pak was created for a purpose... Pak can not exist without that Purpose of Peace...and Prosperity. 

Jinnah had given clear cut instruction regarding the System of the State and Welfare of the Paks. Time to implement that instruction.

Pak to be Pak...a clean up is long overdue.

Funny how Turkey's economy suddenly became 'sick' and how Pak's economy was brought to an abyss before current ruler took office. 

Life is funny.

Regards,

Mangus

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## niaz

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *Economic Solutions' Framework: Laying the Foundation for a Sustainable Economy*
> 
> All economies and their performace is the refelction of politics.
> 
> Dollar dominance is the result of politics.
> 
> Yuan management and slow, controlled trading is result of politics. Japanese property boom and bust was result of politics. ASEAN 'miracle' boom/bust/boom...politics. Buying T-bills is result of political decision.
> 
> Euro is purely a political decision. Had no underlying economic need other than trans-atlantic decision making and tightly nitting mainland Europe into a political entity. Ask PIGS the price they are paying for this. Greece, let us not forget.
> 
> The point is all economies mean political expression i.e. political economy. Just have a look at resource rich countries and their political make-up and their related economic performace.
> 
> If we look at the Pak economic history... apart from mere 7-9 years period of 1960s... primarily Pak economy has been a rentnier economy living off loans and aid packages. This is evident at both macro and micro level. The industrial, banking and export sector has the same behaviour. Just enough investment to keep things going.
> 
> No business or tech innovation. Getting the money out of the country or creating foreign shell (trading) companies to either under or over invoice. In any case just looking at the conoutry, consciously or unconsciouly, as a colony. The elite has all its assets abroad. An estimated $200 to $300 Bln is total net capital or assets abroad. Not all of it belongs to politicos.
> 
> In other words, if only Paks can invest in Pak then no foreign investment is needed. BD export boom in textile is Pak investor driven. Malaysia another destination. Again not all of it criminal produce but rather escaped capital due to 20 years of WOT and Karachi Burning.
> 
> We could indulge deeper about money sent back form Overseas Paks... through _hundi_... but the picture is there.
> 
> *The Point!?: Pak is NOT a poor country.*
> 
> *What is a Developed Economy:*
> 
> We can go into standard, known, features such as ease of doing business and all that jazz... however, let us focus on the quint essence of a developed or developing economy with solid foundations.
> 
> In essence a strong economy is a Giant Rules Engine with strong Exception Management System. Everything designed for Flow in the Process. Nothing else.
> Without this there cann't be any innovation or business growth. Even in a communist political system of China one can easily find this fact.
> 
> A passing look at Pak's economy or general taxation system will show that the entire legislation is designed to retard economy activity. Or in other words a system designed to squeeze as much as possible from citizens and Pak State.
> 
> This in nutshell is the current Political Economy of Pakistan.
> 
> *What Could be the Pak Political Economy?*
> 
> Socialism? No!
> 
> Neo-liberal Capitalism? No!
> 
> Humanism? Yes
> 
> The very Idea of Pak was driven by a sense of this. To have a place where Paks could become Free Humans according to their unique Civilisational Heritage. Why else swim through ocean of blood?
> 
> Do the laws, regulations enable the advancement of Human Condition in Pak at the moment? Or do these enable the oppositie? Be it courts, civil services or daily life?
> 
> Except for 5 years under Ayyub Khan... Pak has been primarily a parlimentary system with British laws. These laws were designed to govern a Colony not a Free State. Yet Pak is still under the same laws. The entire legal framework is geared towards Control rather than progress.
> 
> This, however, is a separate discussion. Nevertheless, extremely relevant. But not now....
> 
> *Creating a Humanist Economy:*
> 
> With more than 50% living under the poverty line and 64% youth buldge redical steps need to be taken to Save The Social Fabric.
> 
> As an Artificial Intelligence dominated world is here... creating jobs for all these young population is a tremedous challenge.
> 
> Given the scope of this Framework I am forced to briefly highlight areas of focus and reform. Each element requires a Whitepaper in its own right.
> 
> *1) Land Reforms:*
> 
> Serfs living in Sindh or South Punjab are good to vote for Never Dying Bhutto but to elevate them from sub-human levels it is necessary that the landless farmers be given land from the Unionists who opposed the very Idea of Pak i.e. today's electables
> 
> *2) Population Act:*
> 
> A two child policy needs to be implemented under National Emergency Act. Easy said than done... but it must.
> 
> *3) Education Act*
> 
> A unified, standardised educational system from GB to Gawadar. In order to create ease of mobility in the job market later this is essential. Salaries of the teachers be the highest of any government employee. Only the best and highly educated should be hired through qualification exames. Only for 5 years. For renewal qualificaiton exame.
> 
> Free food and books. Any mismangement or theft means life in prison. You can forgive murders but not those who steal from educational instituitions. Compulsary education till 18 with focus on science, tech and paractial industrial skills. Urdu as medium. English as second.
> 
> *4) Public Services Act*
> 
> No more permanent government jobs. An AI based performance management system for all government employees. Except for Foreign Office.
> Dismantle CSS. Direct hiring based on experience in business.
> Create a country wide Rules Engine based on open source Enterprise Architecture spread across the country on Blockchain.
> 
> *5) One Tax Act*
> 
> Paks, poor ones, are criminally taxed through indirect taxes. On the other end corporate sector has the worlds highest tax ratio. This again is the reflection of rentnier mentality/system.
> 
> No sales or wealth tax.
> 
> A single Tax % for everyone living above the poverty line. This % has to be the same i.e. propotional to the income. If some earns a million he/she pays same % relative to income to someone who earns less. Justice in taxation.
> 
> Dismental tax office. Bring in AI solutions. Custom duties also be governed by unmanned systems. Pak State will have more revenues this way than any other schemes.
> 
> *6) Agriculture Revolution*
> 
> Per hectre yield of Pak farming lands is horribly low. This needs to become threefold at least. This is far easier way to reduce poverty than anything else.
> 
> The entire value chain related to Agri i.e. irrigation, machinery, fertilizers, storage, farm-to-market needs to be Pak made. Herein Value Addtion and Food processing/packaging is critical. Easily done. Just take out the parasites and redtape.
> 
> Biotechnology parks for Pak tech firms be established with 10 year tax break... provided there is complete tech transfer and skills development of Young Pak techies... Also essential that these have to be JVs only. No foreign firm be given this. Ban GMO except for cotton seeds.
> 
> Genetic Sciences and Tech centres of excellence and related business spin-off with subsidy and tax breaks for ten years.
> 
> *7) Industrial Revolution*
> 
> There is no luxury of time... from pure mannual labour intensive to high tech Pak must establish SEZs in all areas. Higher tax breaks for high tech. The key policy is to make Everything in Pak. Period.
> 
> Electronics, manufacturing and processing industries must be the focus in the first phase. Focus on transportation i.e. cars, buses, truck, high PK tractors etc. More competition the better. #BanSuzuki
> 
> *8) IT Cities*
> 
> There is a scope for at least four IT cities in Pakistan. Same as 7 policy should be to part of each step of the IT value chain. With Social Responsibility Act required of all IT companies to train young Paks through Skill Centres and Internships.
> 
> *9) Banking Sector Reform*
> 
> Pak banking sector is lazy. It has been fattening up by lending to government. Pak must allow competition by creating a Credit Issuing Agency.
> 
> Banking sector is owned by the same #CriminalEnterprise which own IPPs. Go figure!
> 
> *10) Energy Act*
> 
> IPPs be opened and tried under Economic Terrorism Act by special courts. Furthermore, renewable must form at least 50% of the energy mix. Dams. Dams and more dams.
> 
> Also, the need for Intelligent National Grid is critical. Nobody has paid any attention to transmission for last 30 years.
> 
> *11) 10 New Cities*
> 
> Firstly, Master Plan for Gwadar needs to be revisited with an eye on making it a second Karachi. Apart from this 10 small and medium seized cities needs to be planned using best practices available, in accordance to geography.
> 
> The cities must have a long term perspective to make them viable i.e miroc economically viable centres. Time to look at cities a different lens.
> 
> *12) Free Karachi Act*
> 
> Pass law to declare Karachi a Federal City or Second Capital of the State. Free Karachi from all political mafias.
> Make Karachi go up. Must also be done for Lahore as well.
> 
> *13) Tourism Yes, Disneyland No*
> 
> There is no country like Pak. From GB to Gwadar... However, it is equally important that the 10000 years old Civilisation does everything possible to retain a distinct cultural and social hue.
> 
> The very distinct Pak Hospitality... the essence of Pak culture... is a Brand like no other. It is not just the landscape but the Pak People. It needs to be markted wisely.
> 
> Welcome to the Land of Dancing Horse
> 
> Welcome to the Oldest Living Cities
> 
> Welcome to the Oldest Civilisation
> 
> *Paks are NOT whites... so trying to become would be useless. Then neither would be white nor Pak. Something which requires deep meditation!*
> 
> *14) Free Internet*
> 
> With 5G coming this should enable in economic transformation. Fintech and Alibaba... can help women and young to have their goods /handicrafts sold worldwide.
> 
> Pak must also lauch statelites in this regard to provide free highspeed internet to all Paks.
> 
> *15) Trains, trains and more trains*
> 
> At the moment the entire train infrastructure is in shambles. Pak must plan for longterm and high speed trains... electric transmission. In this regard apart form track agreement... local manufacturing agreement with China needs to be signed.
> 
> Here blindly follow Chinese strategy.
> 
> *16) China Model Yes, China Model No*
> 
> China could do all those things because China is China. China doesn't have #DieselMullahs or ZAB or NS or #CriminalEnterprise
> 
> So following Chinese Model is not that easy. However, the elments of the Chinese Model can be implemented in Pak development.
> 
> A Thinktank of Sino-Pak Socio-Economists can become part of Sino-Pak Strategic Cooperation Framework.
> 
> *17) MIC Pak & Co.*
> 
> The expansion in Pak MIC and vertical integeration of private enterprises is needed. Not just lipservice. The export potential in product and services is huge and needs to become part of Military and Economic Diplomacy.
> *
> 18) CPEC... to be a Road or a Bridge*
> 
> CPEC can only deliver fruits for Paks if there is actualisation of SEZs, financial/trading centres and related services industry boom in Pak for China, MENA and Africa.
> 
> If Pak becomes just a road for China then the loss will be immense. Something to ponder.
> 
> And finally....
> 
> *19) Financial System*
> 
> At the moment Paks hold more gold privately than the State. Not bad for the people but bad for economy. RekoDig needs to be given protection under National Security Act. And all that gold must go straight to the State. PKR must have some underpinning of gold. It is miserably exposed.
> 
> #PetroPKR ??? Well it can be done but nobody has the guts to do it. Besides... too early in the game... so no flying horse just yet
> 
> Pak needs to plan today if and how it wants to escape the middle income trap...... the only solutions is spending equally on education as defence... perhaps double.
> 
> #2047PakAt100
> 
> @Reddington @zulu @Dubious @Khafee @niaz well gents, first attempt. Obviously, requires more detail in each facet. But then it becomes a book on Transformation!


Honourable Magnus .O. Novem

Your post is very good and difficult for me to improve upon it. I am not an economist and my formal education on this subject is limited to what I learned in the evening MBA programme at the Long Island University financed by Esso while I was in New York back in 1970. The hardcore economist would probably disagree with my comments which are based on the “Common Sense” approach and what I have witnessed in Pakistan & the other countries that I have visited.

With your permission, I would refrain from debating the pros & cons of the different economic systems. Instead, I would limit myself to what in my view ails the Pakistan economy and what is the possible solution.

However, I am not aware of exactly what is meant by ‘Humanist’ economics that you refer to? Scandinavian countries are well-known for their strong social welfare. The economic system called the “Nordic model” is essentially a capitalist society with generous welfare programs. The laws make it easy to shed workers and implement restructuring to keep the business profitable.

The Nordic nations tax structure is based on individual rather than the household income coupled with a flat tax. The system treats all citizens equally (including gender equality) and encourages workforce participation. The net result is a unique combination of market capitalism & social benefits which provides the citizens with quality free education & healthcare and guaranteed pension for the old. High taxation ensures that the gap between the rich & the poor, even though noticeable, is far less than the USA and many European countries.

In my humble opinion Pakistan economy has three fundamental weaknesses. First & foremost is that GOP has been continually spending more than its revenue. This is because Pakistanis in general don’t like to pay income tax and some even don’t pay their utility bills.

Many state owned organizations and provincial gov’ts delay paying their power bills which means that the rest of the consumers have to bear the burden. Lack of sufficient revenue means that after allocations for defence, interest payment on local & external loans, salaries for the gov’t employees and subsidies to the state owned loss making enterprises; there is not much left to spend upon infrastructure, education, health, public welfare schemes, agriculture and economic development projects. Hence we see that quite often funds allocated for development projects are spent elsewhere.

The second main problem the balance of payment situation. I think that Pakistan’s economic woes are primarily due to the fact that our economy never really progressed beyond what is called “Import substitution” stage. Hence our industrial base lacks the capability to convert the imports to higher value exports by adding value.

Performance of our service sector is also abysmal. Pakistan’s trade in services only amounted to $16.20 billion. Our neighbor country India, on the other hand, contributed US$162 billion in the international trade of services in 2016.

https://dailytimes.com.pk/239197/the-services-sector-and-export-growth/

Ever since 1958, Pakistan has been governed either by the military dictators or by the ‘Autocratic’ authoritarians in the guise of democratic leaders. Pakistan economy fared better under the dictators primarily because the people appointed to task were generally competent. This could be because in the military even the mediocre have to perform else they would not be promoted to the next rank. Also because there was political stability & continuance of economic policies for nearly a decade, investors knew what to expect in the near future.

On the other hand, in democracy, as practiced in Pakistan, like / dislike of the leader is the key determining factor. Ministers and Heads of state organizations are selected solely on the persons’ loyalty to the party leader regardless of their actual ability. Additionally, each time a new party comes to power, projects / economic policies of the previous gov’t; even if genuinely beneficial, are discarded. The result is that only short term measures which stabilize the economic situation are undertaken instead of the structural reforms that would correct the underlying weaknesses.

That is why time and again the fiscal & balance of payment pressures reach near crisis level before the GOP is forced to act and goes out to the IMF with the cap in hand. In my humble opinion; in addition to the elimination of the corruption & nepotism; orthodox economic measures such as cutting the wasteful expenditure and substantially enlarging the revenue through and equitable taxation system, eliminating the red-tape to encourage individual entrepreneurship are needed to correct Pakistan’s economic problems.

One must understand that no gov’t can provide jobs for all and/or provide shelter to all the homeless. The Gov't's job is to create investment-friendly policies by fixing the law & order situation, cutting the red-tape and improving the technical & innovative skills of the workforce through good quality training & education. It is the small & large industrial/trading enterprises that create jobs and help to resolve the unemployment problem. Pakistan will never get out this vicious cycle unless the three most important steps are taken.

All citizens with income beyond a certain threshold must pay tax regardless of how this income was generated Tax evasion must be substantially reduced. If the GOP needs to reform the FBR by firing all current employees and hiring new ones, so be it. Extreme circumstances need extreme measures.

GOP must make all effort to increase the exports to at least 10% of the GDP (currently it is about 8%) which means our minimum export target should be around $30-35-billion. This would help to correct the balance of payment problem to a large extent. Instead of capitulating to the Islamist lobby by not hiring a very capable Qadiani advisor; help from any individual; be a Hindu, Sikh or Buddhist should be welcome.

Presently Chinese steel plate is so cheap that many UK & US steel mills have disappeared. By continuing with the loss-making enterprises such as PSM, GOP is, in fact, doling out money to thousands for doing nothing. Pakistan cannot afford such white elephants and all loss-making state enterprises should be auctioned off at whatever the price market will pay for it. The money thus saved to be used for other poverty reduction programs such as rural roads, installing water filtration plants, improving agriculture yield through multi-crop farming etc.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

@niaz 


Kind sir,

Please, allow me to thank you for your thorough diagnosis of the state of affairs as they stand for Pak.

Nordic Model was product of Clavnism and of course, high investement in education and healthcare. 
Finland is a prime example of ROI in education. They do have world's best system. In my younger years I did work in the Nordics so I am aware of both the Human Condition and Human Quality there.

Transformation, be it economic or social, is both science and art. The problems in Pak's case are many. Both structural and historical. Hence, no easy or plug-and-play solutions within the cmurrent system in its totality.

It requries thinking, deep meditation and a dialouge with professionals as yourself and young Paks here. I percieve it to be a process rather than just taking a postion or copy/pasting from some western models. 

I do believe We can have original thinking by studying others...analysis-synthesis-application.

Regarding my Thesis of Humanist Economy... I don't mean a western welfare state. 

As you know and obersve that the writing-off of people is becoming more common. 40 is the new 50. And with the advent of AI this process is going to be even more relentless. Result: Trump in US and other wannabes in Europe. Welfare state had its day when the rest of world was coming out of post colonial time... the advent of China only accelerated this decline.

Furthermroe, I don't believe that a cradle to grave welfare is the solution. It is practically ended now in Europe. A welfare check has also shrunk. I believe you can percieve the point I attempt to make here.

Hence, I purposed a Third Way.

I know it is a new Economy Theory. But... heck... why should we always copy/paste from others. Aren't we capable of Original Thinking based on certain Prinicples?

I shall avoid fake modesty which forces people to utter hollow gratitudes...Hence I shall keep the lips of wisdom sealed for the way you addressed this person.....

Nay... I shall say... you make me happy my brother that you concern yourself with Pak the same way as I do!

If you have time... then we can run with this thread and try to learn from each other... and teach our Young Paks a bit.

What else can we do?

Remain blessed.

Mangus

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## niaz

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> @niaz
> 
> 
> Kind sir,
> 
> Please, allow me to thank you for your thorough diagnosis of the state of affairs as they stand for Pak.
> 
> Nordic Model was product of Clavnism and of course, high investement in education and healthcare.
> Finland is a prime example of ROI in education. They do have world's best system. In my younger years I did work in the Nordics so I am aware of both the Human Condition and Human Quality there.
> 
> Transformation, be it economic or social, is both science and art. The problems in Pak's case are many. Both structural and historical. Hence, no easy or plug-and-play solutions within the cmurrent system in its totality.
> 
> It requries thinking, deep meditation and a dialouge with professionals as yourself and young Paks here. I percieve it to be a process rather than just taking a postion or copy/pasting from some western models.
> 
> I do believe We can have original thinking by studying others...analysis-synthesis-application.
> 
> Regarding my Thesis of Humanist Economy... I don't mean a western welfare state.
> 
> As you know and obersve that the writing-off of people is becoming more common. 40 is the new 50. And with the advent of AI this process is going to be even more relentless. Result: Trump in US and other wannabes in Europe. Welfare state had its day when the rest of world was coming out of post colonial time... the advent of China only accelerated this decline.
> 
> Furthermroe, I don't believe that a cradle to grave welfare is the solution. It is practically ended now in Europe. A welfare check has also shrunk. I believe you can percieve the point I attempt to make here.
> 
> Hence, I purposed a Third Way.
> 
> I know it is a new Economy Theory. But... heck... why should we always copy/paste from others. Aren't we capable of Original Thinking based on certain Prinicples?
> 
> I shall avoid fake modesty which forces people to utter hollow gratitudes...Hence I shall keep the lips of wisdom sealed for the way you addressed this person.....
> 
> Nay... I shall say... you make me happy my brother that you concern yourself with Pak the same way as I do!
> 
> If you have time... then we can run with this thread and try to learn from each other... and teach our Young Paks a bit.
> 
> What else can we do?
> 
> Remain blessed.
> 
> Mangus




Hon Sir, 

What I wrote about Pakistan economy is well known and since it is the country of my origin, I have observed the state of affairs since my teens that is, for the last 60 years, therefore, I could write sensibly about it.

As I mentioned, I am a chemical engineer by profession and not an economist. I am not embarrassed to admit that I am not competent enough to make a meaningful contribution to a new economic theory, especially since you are obviously much better qualified in this regard. 

Since I am not in the habit of posting for the sake of posting alone; I am humbled by your suggestion but regret my inability to be of assistance.

Thanks & best regards.

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## guest9999

I think this article sums up issues facing last 3 governments. Important bit to note, is that *overvaluing the rupee will make your exports less competitive and helps to bring them down, while it makes your imports more attractive and essentially subsidizes them. To top that off, you borrowed billions which will never come back to prop the rupee*.

*An overdue stitch for the economy
*
History is repeating itself. Like the PPP (2008-13) and PML-N (2013-18) governments, the incumbent PTI government also discovered that its predecessor had left an economic mess for it to sort out.

A close analysis of external and internal factors by the last three governments reveal that while all three (and their respective caretaker governments) had to face some common chronic challenges, the trigger for economic mess was unique in all three cases.

The PPP government inherited a messy economy because the economic boost in the Musharraf-Shaukat Aziz era was dependent on an easy flow of dollars – thanks to the ’US War on Terror Coalition Support Fund’ – rescheduling of foreign debts, consumer led growth, and investment in the speculative (real estate and stick market) sectors. The year 2007-08 saw massive fiscal indiscipline. While international oil prices doubled (from $55 to $110) from January 2007 to March 2008, they were increased by only 9 percent for Pakistani consumers (to please voters for Elections 2018).

Same was the case for the electricity tariff where the impact of oil prices was not passed on. That was the beginning of the energy circular debt and aggravated the power outages. Government borrowing from the State Bank reached an all-time high, leading to widening of the current account deficit, rise in public external debt, loss in foreign exchange reserves, and higher inflation. Fiscal indiscipline by the PML-Q was the root cause of the problems that the following PPP government had to face.

The PML-N too got a messy economy, as the previous PPP government had to survive a huge burden of poor policies from its predecessors, two devastating floods of 2010 and 2011; the blowback of the war on terror – not only in the form of increased militancy but also in financial terms ($251.8 billion as estimated by Dr Hafiz Pasha) – and the historic high international petroleum prices which rose up to $152 per barrel.

This had led to the piling up of the energy circular debt and unprecedented power outages during the PPP era. Four finance ministers, three governors of the State Bank, and four finance secretaries in the first three years of the PPP government were tried for successful economic firefighting but things could not improve and the PML-N government had to accept the challenge of turning around the economy.

The PML-N government (2013-2018) was lucky to have most external factors in its favour. It found petroleum prices at an historic low (prices went down to $20 per barrel). The inflow for CPEC funds and Chinese investment for mega infrastructure and energy projects gave impetus to a stumbling economy. There was no major natural catastrophe. The law and order situation considerably improved, as did the supply of energy.

Apart from the IMF’s $6.5 billion, there were certain other factors that helped build foreign exchange reserves including a one-off payment from a 3G-4G auction, proceeds from Euro and Sukook Bonds, and payment from Saudi Arabia. The question arises: with all these positive externalities, why did the PML-N not leave a healthy economy for the PTI government?

Before answering this question, let us have a look at the chronic issues affecting Pakistan’s economy, which the last three governments found difficult to address.

The first issue is that there is a very narrow tax base. None of the previous governments was very successful in bringing taxable tax-evaders into the tax net (Although the PML-N government doubled the FBR revenue in five years, it failed to broaden the tax base). The second issue is the energy circular debt, which was ignored by the PML-Q (Shaukat Aziz) and which later proved out of control for the PPP because of the extraordinary high crude oil prices. The PML-N government did temporarily clear off the debt after coming into power, but that debt got tripled during the party’s five-year tenure. The third issue affecting our economy is lack of political consensus to reform loss-making public-sector enterprises (LPSEs). Each political party, while in opposition, opposed the then government’s efforts to reform LPSEs.

Now let us see why the PTI finds itself in an economic mess. The biggest problem with the last government’s economic performance was its inability to use the then fortuitous circumstances in addressing the chronic issues faced by Pakistan’s economy. Those issues got further aggravated by a *wrong set of policies, especially the policy to artificially stabilize the value of the rupee for which (borrowed) $24 billion were injected by the government in the open market to keep the value of the rupee below Rs105 per dollar from 2014-2017. This overvaluation of rupee from 2014 to 2017, according to Dr Pasha, was a serious mistake, leading to subsidized imports and reduced exports (trade imbalance), large current account deficit and fast rising debt repayment liabilities*.

In his latest book, ‘Growth and Inequality’, Dr Pasha writes: “the root causes of the incipient financial crisis today and the need ultimately to go [sic] the IMF are a unique combination of both internal and external factors. *Due to a wrong set of policies, especially with regard to the exchange rate, Pakistan has been afflicted by a very rare form of the ‘Dutch Disease’” (apparent causal relationship between the increase in the economic development of a specific sector and a decline in other sectors).

“Large external borrowings have been used to keep the exchange rate nominally stable while leading to plummeting of exports and mushrooming of imports, thereby causing a big widening of the trade gap and resulting in a much larger current account deficit”.

He further writes that “the excessive external borrowing has also led simultaneously to a fast rise in debt repayment liabilities”.*

Today, petroleum prices are once again bouncing back, touching nearly $60 per barrel. With the successful conclusion of CPEC’s funded phase-I, flow of funds under CPEC is over. Successive governments’ failure to address the chronic issues of low tax-base, LPSEs, and energy circular debt has led to a stage where circular debt and bailout to LPSE each has exceeded the annual defence budget.

It was quite easy for the current government to go on a lending spree, ignore fiscal discipline and let the economy suffer from a “rare form of the Dutch disease”, leaving a huge economic mess for whoever forms the next government. However, it has chosen a difficult path to address the chronic issues facing Pakistan’s economy.

The unpopular moves to depreciate the value of rupee to its real effective exchange rate, increase energy tariffs to stop further accumulation of energy circular debt, reduce imports through regulatory duties, and possible withdrawal of the unrealistic tax relaxations given in the last budget, will be painful both for the people (who will feel inflationary pressure) as well as the PTI government (which will lose its political capital). However, this pain must be endured by both – considering it an overdue stitch that would save nine stitches in months and years to come.


The writer heads the Sustainable Development Policy Institute.

Twitter: @abidsuleri

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## CrazyZ

incognito1000 said:


> I think this article sums up issues facing last 3 governments. Important bit to note, is that *overvaluing the rupee will make your exports less competitive and helps to bring them down, while it makes your imports more attractive and essentially subsidizes them. To top that off, you borrowed billions which will never come back to prop the rupee*.
> 
> *An overdue stitch for the economy
> *
> History is repeating itself. Like the PPP (2008-13) and PML-N (2013-18) governments, the incumbent PTI government also discovered that its predecessor had left an economic mess for it to sort out.
> 
> A close analysis of external and internal factors by the last three governments reveal that while all three (and their respective caretaker governments) had to face some common chronic challenges, the trigger for economic mess was unique in all three cases.
> 
> The PPP government inherited a messy economy because the economic boost in the Musharraf-Shaukat Aziz era was dependent on an easy flow of dollars – thanks to the ’US War on Terror Coalition Support Fund’ – rescheduling of foreign debts, consumer led growth, and investment in the speculative (real estate and stick market) sectors. The year 2007-08 saw massive fiscal indiscipline. While international oil prices doubled (from $55 to $110) from January 2007 to March 2008, they were increased by only 9 percent for Pakistani consumers (to please voters for Elections 2018).
> 
> Same was the case for the electricity tariff where the impact of oil prices was not passed on. That was the beginning of the energy circular debt and aggravated the power outages. Government borrowing from the State Bank reached an all-time high, leading to widening of the current account deficit, rise in public external debt, loss in foreign exchange reserves, and higher inflation. Fiscal indiscipline by the PML-Q was the root cause of the problems that the following PPP government had to face.
> 
> The PML-N too got a messy economy, as the previous PPP government had to survive a huge burden of poor policies from its predecessors, two devastating floods of 2010 and 2011; the blowback of the war on terror – not only in the form of increased militancy but also in financial terms ($251.8 billion as estimated by Dr Hafiz Pasha) – and the historic high international petroleum prices which rose up to $152 per barrel.
> 
> This had led to the piling up of the energy circular debt and unprecedented power outages during the PPP era. Four finance ministers, three governors of the State Bank, and four finance secretaries in the first three years of the PPP government were tried for successful economic firefighting but things could not improve and the PML-N government had to accept the challenge of turning around the economy.
> 
> The PML-N government (2013-2018) was lucky to have most external factors in its favour. It found petroleum prices at an historic low (prices went down to $20 per barrel). The inflow for CPEC funds and Chinese investment for mega infrastructure and energy projects gave impetus to a stumbling economy. There was no major natural catastrophe. The law and order situation considerably improved, as did the supply of energy.
> 
> Apart from the IMF’s $6.5 billion, there were certain other factors that helped build foreign exchange reserves including a one-off payment from a 3G-4G auction, proceeds from Euro and Sukook Bonds, and payment from Saudi Arabia. The question arises: with all these positive externalities, why did the PML-N not leave a healthy economy for the PTI government?
> 
> Before answering this question, let us have a look at the chronic issues affecting Pakistan’s economy, which the last three governments found difficult to address.
> 
> The first issue is that there is a very narrow tax base. None of the previous governments was very successful in bringing taxable tax-evaders into the tax net (Although the PML-N government doubled the FBR revenue in five years, it failed to broaden the tax base). The second issue is the energy circular debt, which was ignored by the PML-Q (Shaukat Aziz) and which later proved out of control for the PPP because of the extraordinary high crude oil prices. The PML-N government did temporarily clear off the debt after coming into power, but that debt got tripled during the party’s five-year tenure. The third issue affecting our economy is lack of political consensus to reform loss-making public-sector enterprises (LPSEs). Each political party, while in opposition, opposed the then government’s efforts to reform LPSEs.
> 
> Now let us see why the PTI finds itself in an economic mess. The biggest problem with the last government’s economic performance was its inability to use the then fortuitous circumstances in addressing the chronic issues faced by Pakistan’s economy. Those issues got further aggravated by a *wrong set of policies, especially the policy to artificially stabilize the value of the rupee for which (borrowed) $24 billion were injected by the government in the open market to keep the value of the rupee below Rs105 per dollar from 2014-2017. This overvaluation of rupee from 2014 to 2017, according to Dr Pasha, was a serious mistake, leading to subsidized imports and reduced exports (trade imbalance), large current account deficit and fast rising debt repayment liabilities*.
> 
> In his latest book, ‘Growth and Inequality’, Dr Pasha writes: “the root causes of the incipient financial crisis today and the need ultimately to go [sic] the IMF are a unique combination of both internal and external factors. *Due to a wrong set of policies, especially with regard to the exchange rate, Pakistan has been afflicted by a very rare form of the ‘Dutch Disease’” (apparent causal relationship between the increase in the economic development of a specific sector and a decline in other sectors).
> 
> “Large external borrowings have been used to keep the exchange rate nominally stable while leading to plummeting of exports and mushrooming of imports, thereby causing a big widening of the trade gap and resulting in a much larger current account deficit”.
> 
> He further writes that “the excessive external borrowing has also led simultaneously to a fast rise in debt repayment liabilities”.*
> 
> Today, petroleum prices are once again bouncing back, touching nearly $60 per barrel. With the successful conclusion of CPEC’s funded phase-I, flow of funds under CPEC is over. Successive governments’ failure to address the chronic issues of low tax-base, LPSEs, and energy circular debt has led to a stage where circular debt and bailout to LPSE each has exceeded the annual defence budget.
> 
> It was quite easy for the current government to go on a lending spree, ignore fiscal discipline and let the economy suffer from a “rare form of the Dutch disease”, leaving a huge economic mess for whoever forms the next government. However, it has chosen a difficult path to address the chronic issues facing Pakistan’s economy.
> 
> The unpopular moves to depreciate the value of rupee to its real effective exchange rate, increase energy tariffs to stop further accumulation of energy circular debt, reduce imports through regulatory duties, and possible withdrawal of the unrealistic tax relaxations given in the last budget, will be painful both for the people (who will feel inflationary pressure) as well as the PTI government (which will lose its political capital). However, this pain must be endured by both – considering it an overdue stitch that would save nine stitches in months and years to come.
> 
> 
> The writer heads the Sustainable Development Policy Institute.
> 
> Twitter: @abidsuleri



Pakistani leaders have been unwilling to do the things nessessary to correct the problems. They have embraced the Anglo-American model of import led growth and kick the can down the road. Works if you have the dollar or pound as your currency. Will not work with the PKR. The day of reckoning has arrived.

We must look to East Asia for inspiration. We must see forex as a precious commodity. Learn to deal with high prices with efficiency and indigenous resources. Above all else, we must embrace the work ethic of our ancestors. Consumption, obesity and laziness has become a sign accomplishment for many..this must change. Without a shock..it simply won't.

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## Abdussamad

CrazyZ said:


> Above all else, we must embrace the work ethic of our ancestors.



Things that improve labour productivity are given here:



> _Investment_ is in physical capital — machinery, equipment and buildings. The more capital workers have at their disposal, generally the better they are able to do their jobs, producing more and better quality output.
> _Innovation_ is the successful exploitation of new ideas. New ideas can take the form of new technologies, new products or new corporate structures and ways of working. Speeding up the diffusion of innovations can boost productivity.
> _Skills_ are defined as the quantity and quality of labour of different types available in an economy. Skills complement physical capital, and are needed to take advantage of investment in new technologies and organisational structures.
> _Enterprise_ is defined as the seizing of new business opportunities by both start-ups and existing firms. New enterprises compete with existing firms by new ideas and technologies increasing competition. Entrepreneurs are able to combine factors of production and new technologies forcing existing firms to adapt or exit the market.
> _Competition_ improves productivity by creating incentives to innovate and ensures that resources are allocated to the most efficient firms. It also forces existing firms to organise work more effectively through imitations of organisational structures and technology.



Work ethic is nowhere to be seen above. Brute force effort is not what makes you more productive. If hard work was the metric then the labourer toiling in the hot sun all day would earn way more than the executive who works in an airconditioned office. Pakistan is lacking in all of the things that really matter.

The western and eastern infidels control the world by pushing buttons.

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## CrazyZ

Abdussamad said:


> Things that improve labour productivity are given here:
> 
> 
> 
> Work ethic is nowhere to be seen above. Brute force effort is not what makes you more productive. If hard work was the metric then the labourer toiling in the hot sun all day would earn way more than the executive who works in an airconditioned office. Pakistan is lacking in all of the things that really matter.
> 
> The western and eastern infidels control the world by pushing buttons.



Improving productivity requires technology and Innovation. The father of modern technical innovation was Thomas Edison...and according to him " Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration.".

Work ethic involves the mind and spirit as well as physical activity. The elite in Pakistan are mentally lazy. Its easy to import goods from overseas and make a huge fortune. Its hard work programming software...many hours toiling in front of screen...They are not interested.

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## Abdussamad

Sigh it's not laziness that is holding the country back. Let me tell you what is:


_Investment_ : This is a poor country so we lack capital alright. However part of the problem is that we have a very low savings rate. There are many factors for this. One is that the banking system has been protected from competition and as a result banks have become risk averse. They don't care about raising deposits. Foreign origin kyc/aml rules are also unsuitable for a country where the bulk of the economy is informal. Another reason is that real interest rates have usually been very low in Pakistan. As a result we have the lowest financial penetration rates in the region and the lowest savings rate in the world.

_Innovation_ : We are not at the stage where innovation is necessary. At this stage of our development it is adoption of technologies invented outside Pakistan that is important. You first need to catch up with the rest of the world before you can advance the state of the art. Unfortunately we are a very technophobic people. For instance the govt. has imposed many taxes on telecoms and internet access which widen the digital divide. As for generating our own intellectual property you would need laws protecting IP rights. Since even tangible properties are not well protected in Pakistan I don't think there's any hope for IP laws being enforced any time soon. We do have software houses but they prefer to export their product to countries where IP laws are enforced. Freelancers and freeagents also work for the infidels and earn dollars. The global market is far bigger than the Pakistani one.

_Skills_ : We don't spend enough on education. In fact we spend the least in the region barring Afghanistan. Instead the military gobbles up the bulk of our resources.

_Enterprise_ : We are generally risk averse. This is a cultural problem. 

_Competition_ : Rent seeking is rampant in our economy. I gave the example of banks above. Other protected sectors include the auto industry and textiles. Sugar and wheat production are heavily subsidised at the expense of other crops which we end up importing. The most competitive sector is telecoms and it is taxed heavily. Effectively the govt. is punishing the most efficient among us.

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## niaz

A critical view of the 8 months of PTI management of the economy.


PTI in la-la land

Zahid HussainUpdated April 10, 2019

 






The writer is an author and journalist.

THE magic wand has not worked. The promise of change has turned into a nightmare. Still, there is no shortage of self-congratulations. The eight-month rule of the PTI has so far been a lesson in how to blunder through.

It is not just about incompetence and inexperience but also about the self-righteousness that has become the hallmark of the Khan government. The promise of instant good governance is far from being fulfilled; instead, chaos and paralysis have stalled even the regular functioning of the administration. The drift seems unstoppable. The performance of the government shows the limits of populism.

Imran Khan is now doing everything that he had criticised the previous governments for. He is launching the same kind of tax amnesty schemesthat he had vehemently opposed in the past. He had labelled such schemes as ‘legalised corruption’. Has it now been declared kosher? For him, taking U-turns is a sign of leadership.

His so-called austerity drive has been flaunted by the PTI government in Punjab that has recently ordered a new fleet of 70 luxury cars for provincial ministers. The total cost of these new vehicles is certainly much higher than the money fetched by the auction of the Prime Minister House vehicles that he had declared were symbols of status quo that needed to be broken. A ‘humble’ background has not stopped his handpicked chief minister in Punjab from attempting to secure substantial benefits for his life after the high post.

The drift seems unstoppable. The performance of the government shows the limits of populism.

Once described as relatively better governed than the rest of Pakistan, the country’s biggest and most powerful province has now gone down the ladder. Multilateral and donor agencies find it much harder to deal with a provincial administration lacking leadership. Being under the constant scrutiny of the National Accountability Bureau, the bureaucracy is not willing to put its neck out and take responsibility for any decision that may land it in trouble.

It’s not much different in KP. The PTI government, which is serving its second term in the province, is implicated in a deplorable scandalinvolving the metro bus project that was launched in 2017. The cost of the project that is yet to be completed is nearly Rs70 billion. A recent report by an inspection team has revealed massive mismanagement of funds and other flaws in the project. To the anti-corruption crusaders, the scandal in their backyard does not seem to bother them very much. That also reinforces allegations of a politically driven accountability exercise against the opposition leaders.

With the induction of Ijaz Shah, the federal cabinet now looks more representative of the legacy of the Musharraf era. The former IB chief has certainly not been appointed on any political merit. The overwhelming presence of old faces in the cabinet raises questions about Khan’s promise to break with the status quo and introduce a new generation of leaders.

While in opposition, Khan had vowed to bring aboard talented technocrats from among Pakistani expatriates, but after the Atif Mian episode, no one is willing to come here. Given people like Shah and his ilk in government, professionals would hardly be motivated to come forward to serve the country. The PTI is no different from any other status quo party, though it may be less tainted.

Nothing quite puts into perspective the la-la land in which the Khan government operates than the latest claim by the finance minister that the economy is out of “intensive care” and on the path to recovery. “The crisis is over,” Asad Umar declared before his departure to Washington for the final rounds of talks with the IMF for a bailout package.

This wildly optimistic declaration came as inflation approached double digits, the rupee plunged to a record low against the dollar, and the stock market appeared in a state of free fall. Revenue collection has shown a record shortfall of more than Rs300 billion in the last nine months. And the economic growth rate is likely to decelerate to 3.4 per cent this financial year, and further down to 2.7pc next year, according to a World Bank report. Given this state of affairs, the economy is certainly not out of the woods as the finance minister has indicated.

Part of the problem may be attributed to the ‘pain of stabilisation’, but it is mostly to do with the voodoo economics practised by the government and the state of uncertainty that has been fuelled by its inaction. Domestic investment remains low for that reason. There are few signs of any reforms being undertaken or incentive being provided by the government that could spur investment.

Massive cuts in the development budget have also been a cause of slow economic growth. A high inflation rate combined with low economic growth could lead to stagflation with dire consequences. Surely, the borrowing from friendly countries has helped avoid default on the repayment of foreign loans, but it is short-term relief as new debts continue to accumulate. The current account deficit will remain a major problem, despite the finance minister’s claim of plugging the gap. Pakistan’s external debt has crossed $100bn and is predicted to grow further.

More worrisome is the worsening unemployment problem because of the sluggish economy and high population growth rate. The PTI’s promise to create five million new jobs seems far-fetched in this situation. Yet Faisal Vawda, the federal minister minister for water resources, has announced that there will be such a spurt of employment opportunities in the next couple of weeks that there will be more jobs than people needing them.

He might have been inspired by his prime minister’s statement that Pakistan was on the verge of discovering huge reserves of oil and gas that may change the fate of the country by making it a part of oil-exporting nations. The minister who is fond of riding motorbikes and maintains a collection of expensive sports cars is ironically a part of the ‘crazy crew’ in the la-la land that the PTI operates in.

_The writer is an author and journalist._

zhussain100@yahoo.com

Twitter: @hidhussain

_Published in Dawn, April 10th, 2019_
https://www.dawn.com/news/1475122/pti-in-la-la-land

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## Mamadouso

Credit to the current government for taking these painful decision. Not many government in the world could do this. 

Seems the previous government in years 2015-2018 did enormous damage by artificially lifting Rupee.


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## SSGcommandoPAK



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## Verve

Sir,

Thank you for this wonderful thread and your excellent thought provoking posts. A lot to say but patience to pen it all down is running thin these days, some sort of a fatigue has set in. So i'll be brief, but will attempt to add more later ...



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Aren't we capable of Original Thinking based on certain Prinicples



We sure are but for that the short vision mentality needs to be overcome first.

Jinnah model you said, and he was very clear on what that model is. Unfortunately in Pakistan and elsewhere the mention of a system based on Islamic Principles is frowned upon and the strong biases bring out the worst turning a potentially fruitful and sensible discussion into a disaster. There is an argument that current constitution is based on Islamic principles but it is not, it is in serious breaches and the economic system has nothing Islamic about it but then some will just get hung up on Blasphemy laws and derail the discussion. It is the narrow focus that's a serious hindrance.

As I see it, this system is the


Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> .. Third Way



As you said that some sort of economic stability will be followed by a system change. If the new system encompasses the interest-based economy, it will lead to failure again down the road - it just will not work in Pakistan despite the counter argument that it works in other countries. Unfortunately for us, Jinnah left us before the banking system was established. Later on the Constitution was painted as Islamic but it was filled with much of anything but, and the parts that are have been blatantly ignored by the criminal elite to line up their pockets.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Verve said:


> Sir,
> 
> Thank you for this wonderful thread and your excellent thought provoking posts. A lot to say but patience to pen it all down is running thin these days, some sort of a fatigue has set in. So i'll be brief, but will attempt to add more later ...
> 
> 
> 
> We sure are but for that the short vision mentality needs to be overcome first.
> 
> Jinnah model you said, and he was very clear on what that model is. Unfortunately in Pakistan and elsewhere the mention of a system based on Islamic Principles is frowned upon and the strong biases bring out the worst turning a potentially fruitful and sensible discussion into a disaster. There is an argument that current constitution is based on Islamic principles but it is not, it is in serious breaches and the economic system has nothing Islamic about it but then some will just get hung up on Blasphemy laws and derail the discussion. It is the narrow focus that's a serious hindrance.
> 
> As I see it, this system is the
> 
> 
> As you said that some sort of economic stability will be followed by a system change. If the new system encompasses the interest-based economy, it will lead to failure again down the road - it just will not work in Pakistan despite the counter argument that it works in other countries. Unfortunately for us, Jinnah left us before the banking system was established. Later on the Constitution was painted as Islamic but it was filled with much of anything but, and the parts that are have been blatantly ignored by the criminal elite to line up their pockets.





My dear Pak,


We do live in a world in continum of last 500 years. Jinnah did a great interview with the Voice of America before he died. Should be in the Pak Archives....

Why do Pak media, politicians and State hide his speeches from the Paks? 

Of course, the differece between credit and debt is the what is enabling condition of truly Humanistic economy.

Jinnah gave a clear framework for Pak state from governance to education, from economy to foreign relations.

I shall await your input to this thread...when you can compose your thoughts in the manner you want.

For now let us welcome contribution from others who wish to see Pak become a Free, Sovereign and Welfare-Just State.

Take good care.

Regards,

Mangus

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## Agito

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *Economic Solutions' Framework: Laying the Foundation for a Sustainable Economy*
> 
> All economies and their performace is the refelction of politics.
> 
> Dollar dominance is the result of politics.
> 
> Yuan management and slow, controlled trading is result of politics. Japanese property boom and bust was result of politics. ASEAN 'miracle' boom/bust/boom...politics. Buying T-bills is result of political decision.
> 
> Euro is purely a political decision. Had no underlying economic need other than trans-atlantic decision making and tightly nitting mainland Europe into a political entity. Ask PIGS the price they are paying for this. Greece, let us not forget.
> 
> The point is all economies mean political expression i.e. political economy. Just have a look at resource rich countries and their political make-up and their related economic performace.
> 
> If we look at the Pak economic history... apart from mere 7-9 years period of 1960s... primarily Pak economy has been a rentnier economy living off loans and aid packages. This is evident at both macro and micro level. The industrial, banking and export sector has the same behaviour. Just enough investment to keep things going.
> 
> No business or tech innovation. Getting the money out of the country or creating foreign shell (trading) companies to either under or over invoice. In any case just looking at the conoutry, consciously or unconsciouly, as a colony. The elite has all its assets abroad. An estimated $200 to $300 Bln is total net capital or assets abroad. Not all of it belongs to politicos.
> 
> In other words, if only Paks can invest in Pak then no foreign investment is needed. BD export boom in textile is Pak investor driven. Malaysia another destination. Again not all of it criminal produce but rather escaped capital due to 20 years of WOT and Karachi Burning.
> 
> We could indulge deeper about money sent back form Overseas Paks... through _hundi_... but the picture is there.
> 
> *The Point!?: Pak is NOT a poor country.*
> 
> *What is a Developed Economy:*
> 
> We can go into standard, known, features such as ease of doing business and all that jazz... however, let us focus on the quint essence of a developed or developing economy with solid foundations.
> 
> In essence a strong economy is a Giant Rules Engine with strong Exception Management System. Everything designed for Flow in the Process. Nothing else.
> Without this there cann't be any innovation or business growth. Even in a communist political system of China one can easily find this fact.
> 
> A passing look at Pak's economy or general taxation system will show that the entire legislation is designed to retard economy activity. Or in other words a system designed to squeeze as much as possible from citizens and Pak State.
> 
> This in nutshell is the current Political Economy of Pakistan.
> 
> *What Could be the Pak Political Economy?*
> 
> Socialism? No!
> 
> Neo-liberal Capitalism? No!
> 
> Humanism? Yes
> 
> The very Idea of Pak was driven by a sense of this. To have a place where Paks could become Free Humans according to their unique Civilisational Heritage. Why else swim through ocean of blood?
> 
> Do the laws, regulations enable the advancement of Human Condition in Pak at the moment? Or do these enable the oppositie? Be it courts, civil services or daily life?
> 
> Except for 5 years under Ayyub Khan... Pak has been primarily a parlimentary system with British laws. These laws were designed to govern a Colony not a Free State. Yet Pak is still under the same laws. The entire legal framework is geared towards Control rather than progress.
> 
> This, however, is a separate discussion. Nevertheless, extremely relevant. But not now....
> 
> *Creating a Humanist Economy:*
> 
> With more than 50% living under the poverty line and 64% youth buldge redical steps need to be taken to Save The Social Fabric.
> 
> As an Artificial Intelligence dominated world is here... creating jobs for all these young population is a tremedous challenge.
> 
> Given the scope of this Framework I am forced to briefly highlight areas of focus and reform. Each element requires a Whitepaper in its own right.
> 
> *1) Land Reforms:*
> 
> Serfs living in Sindh or South Punjab are good to vote for Never Dying Bhutto but to elevate them from sub-human levels it is necessary that the landless farmers be given land from the Unionists who opposed the very Idea of Pak i.e. today's electables
> 
> *2) Population Act:*
> 
> A two child policy needs to be implemented under National Emergency Act. Easy said than done... but it must.
> 
> *3) Education Act*
> 
> A unified, standardised educational system from GB to Gawadar. In order to create ease of mobility in the job market later this is essential. Salaries of the teachers be the highest of any government employee. Only the best and highly educated should be hired through qualification exames. Only for 5 years. For renewal qualificaiton exame.
> 
> Free food and books. Any mismangement or theft means life in prison. You can forgive murders but not those who steal from educational instituitions. Compulsary education till 18 with focus on science, tech and paractial industrial skills. Urdu as medium. English as second.
> 
> *4) Public Services Act*
> 
> No more permanent government jobs. An AI based performance management system for all government employees. Except for Foreign Office.
> Dismantle CSS. Direct hiring based on experience in business.
> Create a country wide Rules Engine based on open source Enterprise Architecture spread across the country on Blockchain.
> 
> *5) One Tax Act*
> 
> Paks, poor ones, are criminally taxed through indirect taxes. On the other end corporate sector has the worlds highest tax ratio. This again is the reflection of rentnier mentality/system.
> 
> No sales or wealth tax.
> 
> A single Tax % for everyone living above the poverty line. This % has to be the same i.e. propotional to the income. If some earns a million he/she pays same % relative to income to someone who earns less. Justice in taxation.
> 
> Dismental tax office. Bring in AI solutions. Custom duties also be governed by unmanned systems. Pak State will have more revenues this way than any other schemes.
> 
> *6) Agriculture Revolution*
> 
> Per hectre yield of Pak farming lands is horribly low. This needs to become threefold at least. This is far easier way to reduce poverty than anything else.
> 
> The entire value chain related to Agri i.e. irrigation, machinery, fertilizers, storage, farm-to-market needs to be Pak made. Herein Value Addtion and Food processing/packaging is critical. Easily done. Just take out the parasites and redtape.
> 
> Biotechnology parks for Pak tech firms be established with 10 year tax break... provided there is complete tech transfer and skills development of Young Pak techies... Also essential that these have to be JVs only. No foreign firm be given this. Ban GMO except for cotton seeds.
> 
> Genetic Sciences and Tech centres of excellence and related business spin-off with subsidy and tax breaks for ten years.
> 
> *7) Industrial Revolution*
> 
> There is no luxury of time... from pure mannual labour intensive to high tech Pak must establish SEZs in all areas. Higher tax breaks for high tech. The key policy is to make Everything in Pak. Period.
> 
> Electronics, manufacturing and processing industries must be the focus in the first phase. Focus on transportation i.e. cars, buses, truck, high PK tractors etc. More competition the better. #BanSuzuki
> 
> *8) IT Cities*
> 
> There is a scope for at least four IT cities in Pakistan. Same as 7 policy should be to part of each step of the IT value chain. With Social Responsibility Act required of all IT companies to train young Paks through Skill Centres and Internships.
> 
> *9) Banking Sector Reform*
> 
> Pak banking sector is lazy. It has been fattening up by lending to government. Pak must allow competition by creating a Credit Issuing Agency.
> 
> Banking sector is owned by the same #CriminalEnterprise which own IPPs. Go figure!
> 
> *10) Energy Act*
> 
> IPPs be opened and tried under Economic Terrorism Act by special courts. Furthermore, renewable must form at least 50% of the energy mix. Dams. Dams and more dams.
> 
> Also, the need for Intelligent National Grid is critical. Nobody has paid any attention to transmission for last 30 years.
> 
> *11) 10 New Cities*
> 
> Firstly, Master Plan for Gwadar needs to be revisited with an eye on making it a second Karachi. Apart from this 10 small and medium seized cities needs to be planned using best practices available, in accordance to geography.
> 
> The cities must have a long term perspective to make them viable i.e miroc economically viable centres. Time to look at cities a different lens.
> 
> *12) Free Karachi Act*
> 
> Pass law to declare Karachi a Federal City or Second Capital of the State. Free Karachi from all political mafias.
> Make Karachi go up. Must also be done for Lahore as well.
> 
> *13) Tourism Yes, Disneyland No*
> 
> There is no country like Pak. From GB to Gwadar... However, it is equally important that the 10000 years old Civilisation does everything possible to retain a distinct cultural and social hue.
> 
> The very distinct Pak Hospitality... the essence of Pak culture... is a Brand like no other. It is not just the landscape but the Pak People. It needs to be markted wisely.
> 
> Welcome to the Land of Dancing Horse
> 
> Welcome to the Oldest Living Cities
> 
> Welcome to the Oldest Civilisation
> 
> *Paks are NOT whites... so trying to become would be useless. Then neither would be white nor Pak. Something which requires deep meditation!*
> 
> *14) Free Internet*
> 
> With 5G coming this should enable in economic transformation. Fintech and Alibaba... can help women and young to have their goods /handicrafts sold worldwide.
> 
> Pak must also lauch statelites in this regard to provide free highspeed internet to all Paks.
> 
> *15) Trains, trains and more trains*
> 
> At the moment the entire train infrastructure is in shambles. Pak must plan for longterm and high speed trains... electric transmission. In this regard apart form track agreement... local manufacturing agreement with China needs to be signed.
> 
> Here blindly follow Chinese strategy.
> 
> *16) China Model Yes, China Model No*
> 
> China could do all those things because China is China. China doesn't have #DieselMullahs or ZAB or NS or #CriminalEnterprise
> 
> So following Chinese Model is not that easy. However, the elments of the Chinese Model can be implemented in Pak development.
> 
> A Thinktank of Sino-Pak Socio-Economists can become part of Sino-Pak Strategic Cooperation Framework.
> 
> *17) MIC Pak & Co.*
> 
> The expansion in Pak MIC and vertical integeration of private enterprises is needed. Not just lipservice. The export potential in product and services is huge and needs to become part of Military and Economic Diplomacy.
> *
> 18) CPEC... to be a Road or a Bridge*
> 
> CPEC can only deliver fruits for Paks if there is actualisation of SEZs, financial/trading centres and related services industry boom in Pak for China, MENA and Africa.
> 
> If Pak becomes just a road for China then the loss will be immense. Something to ponder.
> 
> And finally....
> 
> *19) Financial System*
> 
> At the moment Paks hold more gold privately than the State. Not bad for the people but bad for economy. RekoDig needs to be given protection under National Security Act. And all that gold must go straight to the State. PKR must have some underpinning of gold. It is miserably exposed.
> 
> #PetroPKR ??? Well it can be done but nobody has the guts to do it. Besides... too early in the game... so no flying horse just yet
> 
> Pak needs to plan today if and how it wants to escape the middle income trap...... the only solutions is spending equally on education as defence... perhaps double.
> 
> #2047PakAt100
> 
> @Reddington @zulu @Dubious @Khafee @niaz well gents, first attempt. Obviously, requires more detail in each facet. But then it becomes a book on Transformation!



Ambitious, I like it. The problem though is sustained political will, this will take at least a decade to set up correctly. Political parties need to stop playing politics and focus on policy. If only the parties could set aside their differences and focus on implementing a unified vision.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Agito said:


> Ambitious, I like it. The problem though is sustained political will, this will take at least a decade to set up correctly. Political parties need to stop playing politics and focus on policy. If only the parties could set aside their differences and focus on implementing a unified vision.




https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paks-criminal-enterprise-can-the-state-free-the-people.614517/

I fear, my dear, we need a total new start... the current political parties and system is not going to allow any substantial change....

A new system is necessary for Pak Political Economy to become people oriented... development is science!

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## ps3linux

While I agree with many of the contents in the thread I have few thoughts on the matter, I mean for around 2 decades I am in the financial sector I have seen ups and downs of the economy the later more often. Although it is true that economic mismanagement and corruption has finally caught up with us, we are in deep deep trouble for one thing but on the other hand for the last 10 months I am seeing a concentrated effort by international players fully aided by their funded media joker that Pakistan is in dire straits due to incumbent Govt. I have never seen ADB/WB/IMF so active in comparing GDP growth during one Govts time with the previous one ( *I have no political affiliation, people in my line of business cannot afford to have one, if they are to make sound financial decisions/analysis/advisory*) let me give you an interesting example:

ADB says that GDP growth during incumbent growth is 3.9% YoY
World Bank Says it is 3.4% YoY
IMF says it is 2.7%

It is the first time I have seen such a huge discrepancy, when we are talking about GDP (Nominal) of 303 billion US$ it becomes significant and when we talk about 1.06 Trillion dollars of GDP (PPP) it become phenomenal, something tells me the situation though bad is not that bad, incumbent Govt managers too are idiots they are not coming up and telling the people the previous as***les pledged majority of Govt future receivables to commercial bank as collateral's, that is why the Govt could not provide any relief to the public because it has no money. Never have I seen ADB/WB/IMF trying so enthusiastically to discredit any Govt in Pakistan, they did not have any problem with the best figure fudging duo of Ishaq dar and Pious Mulla waqar.

Food for thought.

I have given few thoughts about other aspects here:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/insolvency-bankruptcy-law.615252/

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

ps3linux said:


> While I agree with many of the contents in the thread I have few thoughts on the matter, I mean for around 2 decades I am in the financial sector I have seen ups and downs of the economy the later more often. Although it is true that economic mismanagement and corruption has finally caught up with us, we are in deep deep trouble for one thing but on the other hand for the last 10 months I am seeing a concentrated effort by international players fully aided by their funded media joker that Pakistan is in dire straits due to incumbent Govt. I have never seen ADB/WB/IMF so active in comparing GDP growth during one Govts time with the previous one ( *I have no political affiliation, people in my line of business cannot afford to have one, if they are to make sound financial decisions/analysis/advisory*) let me give you an interesting example:
> 
> ADB says that GDP growth during incumbent growth is 3.9% YoY
> World Bank Says it is 3.4% YoY
> IMF says it is 2.7%
> 
> It is the first time I have seen such a huge discrepancy, when we are talking about GDP (Nominal) of 303 billion US$ it becomes significant and when we talk about 1.06 Trillion dollars of GDP (PPP) it become phenomenal, something tells me the situation though bad is not that bad, incumbent Govt managers too are idiots they are not coming up and telling the people the previous as***les pledged majority of Govt future receivables to commercial bank as collateral's, that is why the Govt could not provide any relief to the public because it has no money. Never have I seen ADB/WB/IMF trying so enthusiastically to discredit any Govt in Pakistan, they did not have any problem with the best figure fudging duo of Ishaq dar and Pious Mulla waqar.
> 
> Food for thought.
> 
> I have given few thoughts about other aspects here:
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/insolvency-bankruptcy-law.615252/






My dear Pak,

Nice post. You are heading there... 

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paks-criminal-enterprise-can-the-state-free-the-people.614517/

IN the above thread I asked for someone like you to calcualte the conservatie size of Pak economy. If you have time... give it a shot!

Pak economy will remain hovering between 3.5% to 4.0% in current fiscal year. Perhaps one after that. Not bad. 
Given that the markup currently is unnaturally high. Further, inflation figures are about 1.5% to 2.0% higher. There was some #CriminalEnterprise behind it. 

MinFin is a den of financial mafia... all the way to SBP.

The System is totally occupied/compromised. This not how the system of state functions. 

Economy and geography are interlinked. Please, closely look at the Pak Map... also there is a one fundamental question: *Why so far Pak State has not allowed to bring out the total Value of Pak natuaral resource?* 

I support this decision of the Pak State... given the blackmailing mafia in the name of democracy and foreign added terrorism/insurgencies...

The fundamental problem has been import feulled / loan funded economic growth of Nawaz League ...moneylaundering mafia. 

The figures were totally wrong. IMF/WB looked the other way and now all of sudden they want to impose harsh conditions. *Why?*

The import-export imbalance of the previous regimes has been equal to high treason. A grave crime. PKR is NOT a global reserve currency...yet the trade imbalance was even more so than the US per % points.

If this is not #EconomicTerrorism then what is.

I still stand by my contention that #CriminalEnterpise see Pak as colony not as their home.

There has not been a Pak Political Economy since last 60s. Only a rentnier policy where both aid and loans were parked somewhere else. All of the rulers were in it. Civlian and military alike.

So, question to you is: *What should be Pak Political Economy?*

Thanks for constructive contribution!

Regards,

Mangus

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## ps3linux

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> My dear Pak,
> 
> Nice post. You are heading there...
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paks-criminal-enterprise-can-the-state-free-the-people.614517/
> 
> IN the above thread I asked for someone like you to calcualte the conservatie size of Pak economy. If you have time... give it a shot!
> 
> Pak economy will remain hovering between 3.5% to 4.0% in current fiscal year. Perhaps one after that. Not bad.
> Given that the markup currently is unnaturally high. Further, inflation figures are about 1.5% to 2.0% higher. There was some #CriminalEnterprise behind it.
> 
> MinFin is a den of financial mafia... all the way to SBP.
> 
> The System is totally occupied/compromised. This not how the system of state functions.
> 
> Economy and geography are interlinked. Please, closely look at the Pak Map... also there is a one fundamental question: *Why so far Pak State has not allowed to bring out the total Value of Pak natuaral resource?*
> 
> I support this decision of the Pak State... given the blackmailing mafia in the name of democracy and foreign added terrorism/insurgencies...
> 
> The fundamental problem has been import feulled / loan funded economic growth of Nawaz League ...moneylaundering mafia.
> 
> The figures were totally wrong. IMF/WB looked the other way and now all of sudden they want to impose harsh conditions. *Why?*
> 
> The import-export imbalance of the previous regimes has been equal to high treason. A grave crime. PKR is NOT a global reserve currency...yet the trade imbalance was even more so than the US per % points.
> 
> If this is not #EconomicTerrorism then what is.
> 
> I still stand by my contention that #CriminalEnterpise see Pak as colony not as their home.
> 
> There has not been a Pak Political Economy since last 60s. Only a rentnier policy where both aid and loans were parked somewhere else. All of the rulers were in it. Civlian and military alike.
> 
> So, question to you is: *What should be Pak Political Economy?*
> 
> Thanks for constructive contribution!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mangus



Goodness gracious what they call in urdu is "darya ko koozay may band kar diya hai" or as they say in English to build a bridge over the sea.

Will be adding my thoughts to this thread in my opinion:

Get rid of 18th amendment ASAP, it is a major hurdle in the economic development of the country.
When it comes to Pak economy I always suggest to look at GDP PPP figures because 70% of our economy is undocumented.

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## Mentee

It's time for the pm to walk his talk and dissolve fbr

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## Beethoven

Mentee said:


> It's time for the pm to walk his talk and dissolve fbr


if FBR gets dissolved where will all the Babus go who work there?


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## Mentee

Beethoven said:


> if FBR gets dissolved where will all the Babus go who work there?


Could be hired as head clerks for other service cadres as this is the only job they are good at

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## Beethoven

Mentee said:


> Could be hired as head clerks for other service cadres as this is the only job they are good at


Jokes apart...our bureaucracy is really powerful and it will do anything to preserve its position and perks thats why even a dictator like Musharraf couldnt reform the civil services despite all the power that he had...


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## Mentee

Beethoven said:


> Jokes apart...our bureaucracy is really powerful and it will do anything to preserve its position and perks thats why even a dictator like Musharraf couldnt reform the civil services despite all the power that he had...



Partially correct assessment bro. But He did set them in their place at district and division level that's why his era witnessed the unprecedented socio-economic revolution. But he had to manipulate the politicians so at provincial and federal level they were given free hand

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## ps3linux

@Mangus Ortus Novem , @Mentee , @Beethoven 

You know my view has been that our corrupt, incompetent bureaucracy is the biggest hurdle in the development of Pakistan, are you guys following Dr. Ishrat's committee for transformation of bureaucracy, what they are coming up is abolition of CSS structure, they want it restructured around British/American model of public service, I know for sure IK and few team members are desperately trying for structural reforms but problem is this bureaucracy.

During last 10 years our economy has really been screwed and if you look at the finance secretaries during the last 11 years you ll be amazed to find one name repeatedly coming up, isn't it time while criminal investigations are being carried out against politicians this kind of people should also be put behind bars as abettors in all crimes.

Make a guess who owns the petrol pump next to Islamabad club?

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## Beethoven

ps3linux said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem , @Mentee , @Beethoven
> 
> You know my view has been that our corrupt, incompetent bureaucracy is the biggest hurdle in the development of Pakistan, are you guys following Dr. Ishrat's committee for transformation of bureaucracy, what they are coming up is abolition of CSS structure, they want it restructured around British/American model of public service, I know for sure IK and few team members are desperately trying for structural reforms but problem is this bureaucracy.
> 
> During last 10 years our economy has really been screwed and if you look at the finance secretaries during the last 11 years you ll be amazed to find one name repeatedly coming up, isn't it time while criminal investigations are being carried out against politicians this kind of people should also be put behind bars as abettors in all crimes.
> 
> Make a guess who owns the petrol pump next to Islamabad club?


I dont see that happening....the lobby is simply too powerful and it will do all it can to retain its glory and charm


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## Mentee

ps3linux said:


> @Mangus Ortus Novem , @Mentee , @Beethoven
> 
> You know my view has been that our corrupt, incompetent bureaucracy is the biggest hurdle in the development of Pakistan, are you guys following Dr. Ishrat's committee for transformation of bureaucracy, what they are coming up is abolition of CSS structure, they want it restructured around British/American model of public service, I know for sure IK and few team members are desperately trying for structural reforms but problem is this bureaucracy.
> 
> During last 10 years our economy has really been screwed and if you look at the finance secretaries during the last 11 years you ll be amazed to find one name repeatedly coming up, isn't it time while criminal investigations are being carried out against politicians this kind of people should also be put behind bars as abettors in all crimes.
> 
> Make a guess who owns the petrol pump next to Islamabad club?


Sir I don't know what this committee is upto
But with the new local bodies draft the govt has deliberately made provision for the DC to stay relevant instead they took out the very boss of the local bodies which is district mayor. It means nothing gonna change.

They were supposed to liberate sindh from the bureaucracy but couldnt even implement thier agenda where they are running the show.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Mentee said:


> Sir I don't know what this committee is upto
> But with the new local bodies draft the govt has deliberately made provision for the DC to stay relevant instead they took out the very boss of the local bodies which is district mayor. It means nothing gonna change.
> 
> They were supposed to liberate sindh from the bureaucracy but couldnt even implement thier agenda where they are running the show.




Mentee,

DC provision was put in by the coconut clerks. This Buzdar is nothing but a humptydumpty.

#JinnahModel is the only way forward. Until we can defang the coconuts Pak can never advance.

Regarding this parasite Ishrat, @ps3linux , just look at his face... IK has zero capability in judging character. 

What do you think about the assets of former NAB chairman.. why isn't NAB investigating him? And the LaWhore highcourt judge who resigned???

This entire system is a parasite that needs to be destroyed. Pak needs true democracy not this dimmocracy of Billo/Bill, Diesel and Nooraz... 

A techonolgy based democracy can propel us forward otherwise it is going to be the same Swan Song.

Time for rebirth. Without Political transformation we can never have economic transformation.

Regards,

Mangus

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## ps3linux

Mentee said:


> Sir I don't know what this committee is upto
> But with the new local bodies draft the govt has deliberately made provision for the DC to stay relevant instead they took out the very boss of the local bodies which is district mayor. It means nothing gonna change.
> 
> They were supposed to liberate sindh from the bureaucracy but couldnt even implement thier agenda where they are running the show.



That my friend is the collective competence of those who were working on local bodies reforms, I am sure they would have okayed the draft presented to them by the bureaucracy.



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Mentee,
> 
> DC provision was put in by the coconut clerks. This Buzdar is nothing but a humptydumpty.
> 
> #JinnahModel is the only way forward. Until we can defang the coconuts Pak can never advance.
> 
> Regarding this parasite Ishrat, @ps3linux , just look at his face... IK has zero capability in judging character.
> 
> What do you think about the assets of former NAB chairman.. why isn't NAB investigating him? And the LaWhore highcourt judge who resigned???
> 
> This entire system is a parasite that needs to be destroyed. Pak needs true democracy not this dimmocracy of Billo/Bill, Diesel and Nooraz...
> 
> A techonolgy based democracy can propel us forward otherwise it is going to be the same Swan Song.
> 
> Time for rebirth. Without Political transformation we can never have economic transformation.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Mangus



You sir would be labelled as anarchist in power corridors, have you followed cricket in IK era do you remember a cricketer by the name of Mansoor Akhtar, buzzzzzzdar reminds me of him.

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## Mentee

ps3linux said:


> I am sure they would have okayed the draft presented to them by the bureaucracy


This is the real deal



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> What do you think about the assets of former NAB chairman.. why isn't NAB investigating him? And the LaWhore highcourt judge who resigned???



The thing is in this system someone have to have a license to go scot free if we want to crackdown on bureaucracy and politicians. And right now only NAB guys and the judges have it. A necessary evil you know



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> Regarding this parasite Ishrat, @ps3linux , just look at his face... IK has zero capability in judging character.



Yeah he does look like the Asian twin of count Dracula

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

@zulu @ps3linux @Dubious @Mentee @Beethoven @Retired Troll @PakSword @TheTallGuy @Verve@Reddington 

Hybridwar, #EconomicTerrorism, dead instituitions, paralysed judicial system... and what is left in under instituitional capture of #CriminalEnterprise.

These are the facts.

And within these ground conditions current government has to balance the budget, redeem about $30Bln debt in two years. Boost exports, reduce imports, create a tiny buffer in Forex.

With a political system in complete paralysis due to save-the-leader-from-jail political parties every single issue in the parliment or outside of it is becoming a bone of contention.

The laws that need to be passed, NFC award that Must be revisited to safeguard against inflation, a deep structural and instituitional reform that is needed to enable/facilitate an economic recovery and sustainable growth...

To completely stop moneylaundering and eliminate money exchanges... is being delayed... must have happened with far greater vengence.. for now only cosmetic actions to fulfill minimum FATF requirements...

It is becoming increasingly clear that the current government or for that matter any party in place today would have not been able to do the required. Because, the political system is designed to gain power and not deliver on economic, social or industrial front. Simply because there is no democracy in the political parites but rather _Bhutparasti_

The question that arrises here is: _*Can the current setup do more than firefighting? Even if it is honest?*_

Pak is facing a multidimensional attack and potency of hybridwar is becoming more lethal with Pak State on the backfoot.

At the moment no out-of-the-box approach is apparent from the present government. Whereas the need for deep change is needed...without edging towards public unrest.


https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-hybrid-war-on-hybrid-war-in-pakisan.616912/

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## Beethoven

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> @zulu @ps3linux @Dubious @Mentee @Beethoven @Retired Troll @PakSword @TheTallGuy @Verve
> 
> Hybridwar, #EconomicTerrorism, dead instituitions, paralysed judicial system... and what is left in under instituitional capture of #CriminalEnterprise.
> 
> These are the facts.
> 
> And within these ground conditions current government has to balance the budget, redeem about $30Bln debt in two years. Boost exports, reduce imports, create a tiny buffer in Forex.
> 
> With a political system in complete paralysis due to save-the-leader-from-jail political parties every single issue in the parliment or outside of it is becoming a bone of contention.
> 
> The laws that need to be passed, NFC award that Must be revisited to safeguard against inflation, a deep structural and instituitional reform that is needed to enable/facilitate an economic recovery and sustainable growth...
> 
> To completely stop moneylaundering and eliminate money exchanges... is being delayed... must have happened with far greater vengence.. for now only cosmetic actions to fulfill minimum FATF requirements...
> 
> It is becoming increasingly clear that the current government or for that matter any party in place today would have not been able to do the required. Because, the political system is designed to gain power and not deliver on economic, social or industrial front. Simply because there is no democracy in the political parites but rather _Bhutparasti_
> 
> The question that arrises here is: _*Can the current setup do more than firefighting? Even if it is honest?*_
> 
> Pak is facing a multidimensional attack and potency of hybridwar is becoming more lethal with Pak State on the backfoot.
> 
> At the moment no out-of-the-box approach is apparent from the present government. Whereas the need for deep change is needed...without edging towards public unrest.
> 
> 
> https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-hybrid-war-on-hybrid-war-in-pakisan.616912/


You missed out a very important point....expanding tax base

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

Growth rate slowing to 3+% was going to happen anyway. Regardless, who was in power.

Yet the intended goal of PKR devaluation was a little mismanaged or beter said sabotaged to a degree by the mafia within the system. 

A far beter approach would have been 500-700% increase in duties on anything other than feul and edible oils....if an outright ban on imports was not possible for one reason or an other... barring only imports of machinery related to export industry... that too with clear certification.

The government has failed so far to crackdown on money exchanges and hundi dealers... a source of moneylaundering and blackmoney recycling.

Had IK government a preplanned game to manage deficit and balance-of-payment crisis... it would have done these thigns in first three months...

A simplified and single tax on everyone above the poverty-line.... would have achieved revenue goals as well...also providing relief to about 60% of the population, the actual povertyline.

With current style of recovery/economic management it goingt to cast another five years before actual economic reforms can take place towards medium and longterm sustainable growth and industrialisation...

As long the current rentenier mafia remains in control of the economy/politics no fundamental change is possible. 

A country of youth can't afford to remain hostage to #CriminalEnterprise for long... it is basically a National Security Issue.

Pak can never attain its true potential nor can it utilise its strategic position if it carries on the same socio-economic-political path.

A fundamental rethink is necessary at strategic level. 

Who has the capacity of such organised, structured thinking? #MarasiMedia? #LifafaJurnos? #MarasiPoliticians?


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## ps3linux

With a interest rate hovering above double digit business would be retiring their bank loans, SME sector is screwed if they borrow from the banks, business borrowing will be in the negative. Banks will be making tons of money and on the other side their NPLs will increase exponentially. Since the necessary trigger for economic growth is missing means viable borrowing rates, with rampant inflation YoY even 3% is more likely a pipe dream.

Asad Umer and his as**ole brother never did like them both, spoiled children of general who think they walk on water pure incompetence of IK and team, devaluation of currency could have been controlled easily but just to screw the country and benefit the mafiotic businessmen ruppee was allowed to depreciate in a landslide mode rather than gradual.

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## nahtanbob

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> *1990s.*
> 
> The democracy of NS and BB... *get-rich-quick-scheme*s. Zero policy of any kind.
> 
> 1992 Money Bill to facilitate money laundering courtesy *#EconomicHitman *appearing on TV these days.
> 
> 
> .



In the 1990s foreign aid dried up. The cold war ended. the writer did not get the memo


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## Tameem

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1129076272871743488Tumko Aik Shakhs Yaad Ayega..


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## niaz

Mentee said:


> Sir I don't know what this committee is upto
> But with the new local bodies draft the govt has deliberately made provision for the DC to stay relevant instead they took out the very boss of the local bodies which is district mayor. It means nothing gonna change.
> 
> They were supposed to liberate sindh from the bureaucracy but couldnt even implement thier agenda where they are running the show.




The main reason is 'Control'. 

In a proper local body system, the Town Mayor or Nazim as we call him has the sole charge of the affairs of his/her area. This is what the grass-root is all about. However, this means that if the local Nazim/Mayor belongs to a different political party, the Provincial gov't would have a lot of say into the running of the Town/Tehsil/Village except allocation of funds. 

A DC, on the other hand, is a government employee and his promotion/wellbeing is dependent upon what the 'Higher ups' think about him. He would, therefore, follow orders of the Provencial gov't. It is an indirect way of having the final say over the affairs down to the village level. 

IMHO having a DC in addition to the Nazim, undermines true democracy and indicates inherent the autocratic attitude of the political leaders.


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## VCheng

niaz said:


> However, this means that if the local Nazim/Mayor belongs to a different political party, the *Provincial gov't would have a lot of say *into the running of the Town/Tehsil/Village except allocation of funds.



Would? Or would NOT?

Controlling funding would still remain a potent weapon to keep everyone in line, I would suggest.


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## niaz

VCheng said:


> Would? Or would NOT?
> 
> Controlling funding would still remain a potent weapon to keep everyone in line, I would suggest.


 
Correct. Regrettably, there is no such thing as 'City Tax' in Pakistan. During my time big cities earned some income through 'Octroi' but there are very avenues where smaller Councils can have income independently. 

Majority of the funds are allocated to the Province under NFC award which then trickles down to the Baldia Councils. The only exception is special packages directly awarded to Metropolitan areas such as Karachi by the Federal gov't for specific projects. It is unavoidable that the Provoncil Gov't would some control over some of the areas of the city gov't, but with DC, it would control many local administrative matters as well.

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## niaz

Here is another article from an Economist published in the Dawn.

*Don’t blame the IMF*
S. Akbar ZaidiUpdated May 18, 2019
Facebook Count1732
Twitter Share
 
88





The writer is a political economist.

THERE is little disagreement that Pakistan’s economy is in a disastrous state. Even the prime minister and Pakistan’s last finance minister have acknowledged this truth, publicly. In fact, the last elected politician to hold the job as finance minister was fired precisely because the economy was in such a mess.

Not only is every key economic indicator in poor shape, all indications suggest that things are going to get much, much worse. Pakistan’s economy is going to slow down to levels not seen for more than a decade, with inflation and unemployment both reaching proportions not seen for a decade. And this is just the beginning.

With the government having just signed onto yet another IMF programme, it is important to emphasise the point, that it is not the IMF which is to blame for Pakistan’s economic condition — not for the past nor for where we are now, and also not for what is about to come. Rest assured, Pakistan’s economy is going to be severely constrained over the next few years, with higher inflation, more unemployment and lower growth, and with a far greater burden on working people than what has been the case for many years. Yet, the IMF is not to be held responsible for the state of Pakistan’s economy.

Rest assured, Pakistan’s economy is going to be severely constrained over the next few years.

The entire responsibility for the wreck that is the Pakistani economy lies squarely on the shoulders of Pakistan’s ruling and propertied elite, both civilian and in uniform, since both have been and continue to hold power in and out of office. There should be no ambiguity about apportioning blame and responsibility here, and one needs to stop blaming the IMF for the mayhem created by this ruling elite.

It is not the IMF which has brought Pakistan’s economy to its knees, to rock bottom, not the IMF which has forced Pakistan to beg for money from supposedly friendly countries, and certainly not the IMF which has made the government of Pakistan finally run to the IMF for loans. The ruling elite, those who hold office and those who hold the strings of those who hold office, are all responsible for managing the economy the way they have over the last few years and over the last decades. This truth can be clearly explained by one simple economic policy measure and non-measure.

From the Musharraf military dictatorship, to the elected governments of Benazir Bhutto, Nawaz Sharif and Asif Zardari, and now to the Imran Khan government, all have gone to the IMF seeking a ‘bailout’ and assistance to stop the country’s deteriorating economic condition.

Yet all these governments, along with their allies and vested interests, have been the ones to have caused a situation where they have been forced to go to the IMF in the first place. They only need the IMF because they fail and refuse to undertake economic reforms since these would hurt their own interests. One key indicator regarding the state of the economy is that of fiscal deficit, that of having greater, unaffordable expenditure and lower revenue or having insufficient money to spend.

If a government is not going to tax its rich, it will always be short of money to spend, no matter how well intentioned and well meaning its social welfare programmes may be. If it has high and increasing defence costs and has to pay back interest on loans taken to pay for defence and other expenditures, it will always have a shortfall of money because it refuses to tax the rich.

This is a circulatory argument: With no taxes on the rich and the elite, with the particularity of Pakistan’s political economy based on essential defence expenditures, and with a shortfall of revenue, there will only be more borrowing, more debt, and so on. The beginning and end of the problem and its solution is simply this: tax the Pakistani elite and the rich. What has the IMF got to do with this gross negligence and failure of Pakistan’s ruling elite? Because the government refuses to raise resources, it has to borrow from the IMF. The IMF is not responsible for the budget deficit ending up near 7.5 per cent of GDP this year.

It must be remembered that it is not the IMF which has come begging to the government of Imran Khan to borrow a pittance ie $6 billion; it is, in fact, the numerous governments of Pakistan which have gone begging for money.

This is simply because we do not raise enough resources — taxes — to be able to spend effectively, whether it is defence or development. If sufficient revenue were raised, there would be no need to beg for money, but in a country where every polio campaign, social welfare measure and women’s support programme are funded by one donor or the other, only because the ruling elite refuses to tax itself, going to the IMF becomes inevitable. But don’t blame the IMF for this.

Moreover, as a lender, the IMF is fully entitled to raise supposedly harsh conditionalities, only because it wants to ensure that its loans are returned, with interest. Banks, and even individuals, don’t lend unless they expect and get assurances that their money will be returned, and need to know about a business plan. As does the IMF, and it is fully entitled to do so. If you don’t like their conditionality, don’t borrow from them. Don’t blame the IMF for its stringent demands.

Since the government has signed an agreement with the IMF, and as the economy deteriorates noticeably over the next two to three years, we can expect those in office and the rest of the elite to blame the IMF for Pakistan’s economic disaster. Yet it is not the IMF that is to be held responsible, but our own elite, elected, unelected, and those who continue to lead Pakistan down the IMF path, yet again. Accountability must begin and end with our elite, not with the IMF.

_The writer is a political economist._

_Published in Dawn, May 18th, 2019_
https://www.dawn.com/news/1483036/dont-blame-the-imf

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

@Reddington @zulu @PakSword @ps3linux @RIWWIR @war&peace @Verve @Dubious 


As we discussed early... EconomicHit is in full swing... the local players as well. 

The opposition is working overtime for Marshal Law... since under military rule... conviction will not hold in international courts... and recovery of foreign assets of supreme leaders won't be possible. 

What is terrible... is the paralysis of this government... on every front... the IK gov is totally frozen... seems like shell-schock... Pak State in the same attitude... 

By not being proactive in controlling moneylaundering and money-exchanges... the run-on-dollar was written on the wall... but neither the State nor the government did anything... and in the process more Paks came under the povertyline...

The system in its present form is an Existential Threat to Pak State and Pak People


https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/470008-capital-suggestion-weaponized-finance


The US Department of Treasury now has a definite – -and defined – role in “advancing US national security interests.” Ian Bremmer, the founder of Eurasia Group, asserts that “instead of fighting countries militarily, the US can now cripple them financially.” Bremmer told Yahoo Finance that the “almighty dollar is more powerful than nuclear weapons.” According to Ian Bremmer, “George Washington carried a musket. Franklin Roosevelt sent in heavy bombers. The [new] armament of choice is weaponization of finance.”

.

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## war&peace

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> What is terrible... is the paralysis of this government... on every front... the IK gov is totally frozen... seems like shell-schock... Pak State in the same attitude...


That's the bigger concern. I don't know why IK is not using all the powers, exploiting every trick, he does not seems to be capable enough to mount a proportional response... upto so far.. he has not impressed me on this front.

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## Verve

war&peace said:


> That's the bigger concern. I don't know why IK is not using all the powers, exploiting every trick, he does not seems to be capable enough to mount a proportional response... upto so far.. he has not impressed me on this front.



He is surrounded by people feeding him lies and not advising on the appropriate actions he can take.

Financial Emergency should have been imposed a while back.



Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> @Reddington @zulu @PakSword @ps3linux @RIWWIR @war&peace @Verve @Dubious
> 
> 
> As we discussed early... EconomicHit is in full swing... the local players as well.
> 
> The opposition is working overtime for Marshal Law... since under military rule... conviction will not hold in international courts... and recovery of foreign assets of supreme leaders won't be possible.
> 
> What is terrible... is the paralysis of this government... on every front... the IK gov is totally frozen... seems like shell-schock... Pak State in the same attitude...
> 
> By not being proactive in controlling moneylaundering and money-exchanges... the run-on-dollar was written on the wall... but neither the State nor the government did anything... and in the process more Paks came under the povertyline...
> 
> The system in its present form is an Existential Threat to Pak State and Pak People
> 
> 
> https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/470008-capital-suggestion-weaponized-finance
> 
> 
> The US Department of Treasury now has a definite – -and defined – role in “advancing US national security interests.” Ian Bremmer, the founder of Eurasia Group, asserts that “instead of fighting countries militarily, the US can now cripple them financially.” Bremmer told Yahoo Finance that the “almighty dollar is more powerful than nuclear weapons.” According to Ian Bremmer, “George Washington carried a musket. Franklin Roosevelt sent in heavy bombers. The [new] armament of choice is weaponization of finance.”
> 
> .



Currency wars ... And Pakistan has one imposed on it.

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## war&peace

Verve said:


> He is surrounded by people feeding him lies and not advising on the appropriate actions he can take.
> 
> Financial Emergency should have been imposed a while back.


We should pray for him, pray for Pakistan


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## VCheng

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> What is terrible... is the paralysis of this government... on every front... the IK gov is totally frozen... seems like shell-schock... Pak State in the same attitude...



Whose responsibility is it to cure this paralysis? Surely it belongs inside the country.

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## Shah01

VCheng said:


> Whose responsibility is it to cure this paralysis? Surely it belongs inside the country.


Couldn't agree more. Just posted a long note in another thread regarding the responsibility. One cannot put all the responsibility on a handful of people i.e. the politicians as everyone is responsible (the share responsibility might be different).


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## VCheng

Shah01 said:


> Couldn't agree more. Just posted a long note in another thread regarding the responsibility. One cannot put all the responsibility on a handful of people i.e. the politicians as everyone is responsible (the share responsibility might be different).



Who said this and what does it mean?

_Khuda ne aaj tak uss qaum ki haalat nahiin badli
Na ho jisko khyaal aap apni haalat ke badalney ka_


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## Shah01

I guess I wanted to say this: 


VCheng said:


> _Khuda ne aaj tak uss qaum ki haalat nahiin badli
> Na ho jisko khyaal aap apni haalat ke badalney ka_


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## Lagay Raho

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> $100+ bln to become *secular* and nuke-free

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## VCheng

Shah01 said:


> I guess I wanted to say this:



Blaming outside forces based on silly conspiracy theories for troubles whose resolution resides solely within Pakistan is a futile exercise in sheer stupidity.

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## nahtanbob

Reddington said:


> Where there is a will, there is a way.


you need capital for factories. unless there are profits to be made no one throws away hard earned capital


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

As we feared, the Economic Hitmen Squad is acting according to its assignment. 

This is a National Security Threat... if this EconomicTerrorism is allowed to continue... the collapse will be unmanagable.

Pak State needs to come in now... the GoP is totally at loss on how to get a grip on emerging catastroph.

First... a complete sealing/ban on money exchanges.. NO holding of foreign currencies in cash... and should only be held in the banks.

A JIT needs to ACT now on how SBP, FinMin and a few individuals are playing the markets....

A permanent ban on foreign currency in cash form needs to happen NOW. 

PKR needs to be brought down... to 130-135. 

A *Financial Emergency *is long overdue!

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## VCheng

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> PKR needs to be brought down... to 130-135.



The question is HOW?


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## American Pakistani

shah_123 said:


> It's easy to write #banimportspak



Do you have any other suggestion? The short term fix is to massively reduce the imports. Which will give some time to breath for the economy and then other measures can be taken.


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## shah_123

American Pakistani said:


> Do you have any other suggestion? The short term fix is to massively reduce the imports. Which will give some time to breath for the economy and then other measures can be taken.


but it will not give time people to breath and they will be DEAD. --


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## Syed1.

shah_123 said:


> but it will not give time people to breath and they will be DEAD. --


I'm sure the awaam can survive without imported cereals, baby powder, cosmetics or Apple/Samsung smartphones.

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## Khafee

Syed1. said:


> I'm sure the awaam can survive without imported cereals, baby powder, cosmetics or Apple/Samsung smartphones.


Interesting point - exorbitant tariffs on imported items should ideally force Int'l companies to manufacture locally, is that happening?

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## American Pakistani

shah_123 said:


> but it will not give time people to breath and they will be DEAD. --







Did you just posted for the sake of posting?

I have zero sympathy for people who sit on the road side staring at girls thinking it is something cool, neither do I have sympathy on 30 year old babies whose daddy is still feeding them, forget about hatta katta beggars. So if you were mentioning that kind of awam you got my answer...this laziest bunch who are dependent on foreign bheek deserve to die, the saying fits perfect here for such people "dharti per boojh".

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## shah_123

Syed1. said:


> I'm sure the awaam can survive without imported cereals, baby powder, cosmetics or Apple/Samsung smartphones.


Yes they can, and btw the items you mentioned is mostly used by upper middle/upper/elite class --- if Imran Khan has the courage (which he doesn't), straightaway ban these products including LAND CRUISERS???

Coming to Awaam, they can't survive with expensive electricity/gas rates and they also can't survive with exorbitant taxes on necessities.



Khafee said:


> Interesting point - exorbitant tariffs on imported items should ideally force Int'l companies to manufacture locally, is that happening?


Not going to happen at least in near future.


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## shah_123

One ugly truth:
*ISLAMABAD: Amid growing pressure from lawyers over a reference against Justice Qazi Faez Isa of the Supreme Court, Law Minister Dr Farogh Nasim on Thursday distributed Rs175 million of taxpayers money among 133 bar associations to win over their support.*
*https://www.dawn.com/news/1490842/govt-distributes-rs175m-among-lawyers-bodies*

Imran Khan & co must pay from their pockets to win the support of lawyer mafia.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

@Khafee old friend, you asked for it...so there it is.


*How we got here?*

I shall be forced to cut this tale of sorrows short...the article at the start of this thread is there for reference.

Let us take last ten years... without an economic policy and a *National Sport of Organised Corruption* and State Bank of Pakistan supervised moneylaundering is not a new thing to discuss here...but as a marker will do.

It is not just the debt servicing, maturity and redemption in this financial year and next... but also a strong component of hybridwar that the economy was brought to the edge of abysee. 
SOEs were destroyed not only due to corruption, nepotism but also by design.... leaving the state in debt/annulised losses of these SOE of 1.5+ Trillion PKR. Thus more borrowing... *a classic Debt Trap.*

NFC award was another masterstroke of hybridwar, a byproduct of 18th amendment which essentially turned Pak into a confederation than a federation. 
Hybridwar again... as the NROfied leaders have to do their masters bidding..and they did to hilt.

With last five years of debt accumulation, combined with *there-is-no-tomorrow moneylaundering *brought the state finances to literal bankrupcy. 

It was once again the trusted friends and brothers who bailed out GoP/PakState.... in this closing financial year $9Bln have been used to service debt. However, in this next fiscal year a debt servicing of $27+Bln needs to take place. So not out of woods yet. 

Expats send about $35-40Bln backhome. But more than half comes back through hundi. This is multi trillion PKR business as it is linked to moneylaundering/black economy. 

Noora leauge economic data is fudged and also based on import based numbers as indicators of GDP growth... where as actual growth was negative...save construction sector...which was/is black anyway. Reference: SCP vs Baharia Town verdict.

Dog food to jams are imported in a country where 60% are on/below the povertyline. So, it was a classic case of EconomicTerrorism.

This CPEC-CPEC gamechanger/fatechanger was a _*truck ki bati.*_.. as again it was not..not at least in its present form. With expensive Showbaazi loans and then eating out the money from contracts with off-shore trusts/companies... you can fill in the rest.

But there is a less discussed case of smuggling from AF and Iran...

*1) Afghanistan*
Of course you know that PTM is also financed by smugglers who are loosing a trade of $10Bln annually. Both route from former FATA and Chaman are being fenced... btw Quetta open market dollar trading is an open secret of dollars coming in and going out of Pak without records...

*2) Iran*
About 1Trillion PKR worth of oil products are smuggled from Iran...hence their resistence to fencing there.... and this smuggling in NOT paid in PKR... it is an elaborate network leading all the way to Karachi...and you know the ubber Don there.

So, in short Pak economy has been feeding Iran/Af for a long time... the combined loss in revenues and Forex runs into tens of billions... cash dollars are used...which go on to feed Iran/AF ruling elites/forces..

So this PTM/BLA issues is more complex...there is economic dimension to it as well.

Then of course... models taking cash out of the country...old story...but happening today as well... it hasn't been plugged yet.

The fundamental mistake this current GoP made was not going hard on imports and smuggling routes.. an outright ban on non-essentials would have been done in the first few weeks of their arrival. But they were taken for a ride by the FinMin, SBP and 'Business Community'... also their *#Buzdarism* is to blame... less prepared on top of that.

*GoP chose the lazy route of devaluation*... the rest is obvious. IMF should have not been pursued and even NOW can be avoided. *Our friends helped a lot..and Asad Umar tried honestly.*..but the *#CriminalEnterprise* in FinMin/SBP and the 'market' didn't want him...so he got the chop, replaced by professional hitman.


*What is way ahead:*

Dollar came down yesterday before the Chief even uttered a word. Of course, validating the fact that the artifical manipulation by the #CriminalEnterprise. IMF only requires that there be solid management on balance of payment...that new loans are not acquired which cann't be serviced.... 

*But in the current package the FATF compliance requirement is the First in the history of IMF. Why?*

Regardless, the natural value of PKR at the moment is around 130-135..even less... simply because the size of Pak Economy.. registered and unregistered is at the minimum $800Bln.. as black economy is about 70%.... with asset declaration scheme... this will come to forth.

As of now FBR portal has crashed...because now they blackmarkteers are waking up to the reality that this time Pak State means business. Chief's speech has magical effect!

*Sloutions:*

*1)* Declare possession of foreign currency in cash form illegal. Period. Everyone goes to bank and opens an account.

*2)* Trade with AF will be conducted in PKR... Period. Untill smuggling stops fully... Only in PKR... even after that.

*3)* Turn a blind eye to oil smuggling from Iran...but payment in PKR... *let My Jinnah become favourite in Tehran*... I say double the size of this smuggling..now that no one is buying their oil... but NO More dollars going that way.

*4)* Ban all private money changers... overnight ban. Period. All through banks...

*5)* Stop Capital outflows... only authorised money transfer and only for those who are taxpayers. Period. No More TTs. 

*6)* Pak State knows about every single hundi wala... just stop it. It will cause problems to expats for a couple of month... but PakPost is offering to-the-door-delivery of money sent to families... so this has to be the only way.

*7) *Announce that before the end of this fiscal year all PKR currency notes will be changed in design... so better put money in the bank... will help with registeration of undocumented economy as well...along with revenue growth.

*8)* Grand bargain with the US... safe/honourable exist for debt redemption/reduction... 

*9)* Trade with China in mutal currencies only! And with agreed balanced trade without defecit...this would require some effort...

*Perservation of the State is Highest Virture. The Only Virtue*.... *it is Do or Die moment.*.. because the inflation will create a massive pain for already crushed 60% Paks.... and this has been the gameplan of Hybridwar all along...
*
Weaponised Finance has hit Pak hard*.... now time to fight back. Kindly, see that economy is not an exact science. Devaluation hurts both in short and long term. So this decision is outright stupid...but then FinMin, SBP and Fin markets in Pak are thoroughly compromised... Pak State knows it!

But it is not all _*lut gae mur gae*_.... neither it is *'no problem'*.... it is a serious attack with help of NROfied elites and permanent #CriminalEnterprise...

State is ready to strike.... proof... shut-up call to *#MarasiParliment.*.. all song-and-dance on Charter of Economy... *#DieselMullah* punctured in APC... Billo doing full Dallas... Maryam in the rabbit hole.. Showbaaz... on the ground...

A _de facto_ *Financial Emergy* is in the works... if it doesn't go according to Plan then.. full monty!

For validation... kindly, have a look what Pak State is speaking softly...but carrying a Big Stick...

*Supreme Court is in for the Kill:*
Chief Justice SCP has made some remakable observations and given verdicts which would be binding to the lower courts... he has slowly, without much fanfare transformed the judiciary... LaWhore highcourt put the Showbaaz son in jail!

What is most interesting is his observation about corruption, moneylaundering and tax evations.... the Pillar of Pak State has spoken.. IHC denied bail to mega moneyluandering accused just yesterday...

Only option slowly left is that of Plea Bargain..

*Chief has spoken!:*
In 2017 Chief spoke to seminar in Karachi and conveyed his concerns about economy and rising debt profile of the country...then Isaq$ went all balerina with *#MarasiMedia and #Lifafas *going all JumWhoriaat... Civilian Superemcy

Now again Chief spoke..but this time in *National Defence University*.... the message is clear. *
Weaponised Finance *will be fought back tooth and nail. And everyone needs to fall in line...before he spoke...PKR fell by 4... freemaket?

All leading economists and our lovely de facto finance minister and FBR chairman were there... you know what I mean... but most interesting fact is that the conference was hosted by the one who hates IMF..and there were other Pak economists who have been speaking out against EconomicTerrorism and Weaponised Finance... you know Pindi better than I ..so you can 'read' it better than I!

*PMIK and Pak State are on the same page i.e. Perservation of State is Highest Virtue. *

As I hinted in my pervious post in this thread... a Financial Emergency is in the works... first phase unannounced... if it doesn't work...then .... anyhow, it all will be clear after PMIK's Washington tour.

*The Hidden Hand:*

*Adam Smith is dead. Long live his hidden hand...* it is alive and kicking... the rise in dollar value was pure EconomicTerrorism conducted by the 'freemarket' manipulators... with full cooperation of FinMin, SBP, dollar traders and private banks... this needs to be crushed.

The current chairman of SBP needs his pasport blocked..and a good chat needs to be had... he ain't going anywhere... the little stunt he pulled off in Eygpt is not going to fly in Pak.

Since IMF wants the market to determine the real value of PKR against dollar...then I say let the free market decide that the real value of PKR is between 130-135... within next two months.. and when the above mentioned measure take hold obviously freemarket shall decided that the PKR is undervalude and gradually bring it down... 

Similarly... with the rise in dollar accounts, as mentioned above, will 'allow' the SBP to bring markup to lower figures... hence lowering inflation... all these measure will lower national debt. A true relief to Paks!

With housing sector to be launched soon... a kickstart of economic growth can be managed. I say CAN be managed... because for this you would need professionals and not coconut babus with their shell companies and trusts..

*Mauritius is a beautiful place!*



Your people and Chinese want to invest heavily in this... I say go for it.

Important in all this to see that *#MarasiMedia *and *#Lifafas* start praying... there is too much negativity...all paid-for... you shall slowly see them starting singing a different tune.

_*It is however imperative that the Bench no. 1 of SCP and COAS get a three years extension. No should not be taken for an answer.*_



PS. *The Strategic Economic & Security Framework* between GCC and Pak is lying dormant for so long... when/if it gets signed...would be a transformative event.

Money, old friend, is NO problem... I assure you as moneyman!


*#DandayWaliSarkar* is coming! And NO it is not marshal law... libtards can commit harakiri...but they wont'.

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## KhanBaba2

Mangus Ortus Novem said:


> @Khafee Dog food to jams are imported in a country where 60% are on/below the povertyline. So, it was a classic case of EconomicTerrorism.



What is EconomicTerrorism. Who is doing it. How are they doing it. What does dog food have to do with it.


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## ghazi52




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## nahtanbob

ghazi52 said:


>



why did the imports fall ?? if you reduce imports by not buying capital equipment the consequences will be felt down the road


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## MystryMan

Good informative program on LNG Scandal and other power/energy issues.

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## El Sidd

Economy will now suddenly start improving as incentives will be given to the GoP to ignore Indian aggression in Kashmir valley. 

People will come here and praise how Muslim Imran Khan changed Pakistan and gave poor the hope to see and witness Kashmir genocide by India by indulging in consumerist cannibalism.


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## EpiiC

Shall I tell you another Ugly truth about Pak economy .....Pak Economy is 1.3% the size of US Economy in comparison ....... After 72 years we achieved 1.3% of US Economy damn


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## TRNDSTTR

We've already cut down imports to 45 bn dollars and we've been in a surplus for the past 5 months as well. Pakistan's imports mostly constitute edible oil, machinery and petroleum anyway so we really can't afford additional taxes on anything else unless it's luxury items. Instead of singularly focusing on imports, our chief interest should be to increase exports by stimulating new industries like olive oil and value-added items, and which also means getting rid of some protectionist policies that have made local industries complacent and unable to compete in international markets.


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## TRNDSTTR

The PML-N artificially controlled the exchange rate and kept the rupee overvalued at 100-110 PKR to 1 USD. This might bring short-term boons but is horrible for long term development. IK and his team realise this well.


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