# TURKEY KEEN TO JOIN CPEC



## PaklovesTurkiye

Monday, 05 September 2016 18:28
Posted by Parvez Jabri







​BEIJING: Turkish Minister of Economy Nihat Zeybekci Sunday expressed interest in the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), saying that his country had been paying close attention to and hoped to take part in the programme.

The Turkish minister expressed these views while speaking at a business summit held on the sideline of the G20 Summit in Hangzhou, China.

Turkey could serve as a bridge connecting China and Europe, especially in terms of logistics, Nihat Zeybekci was quoted by official Xinhua news agency.

The Turkish minister spoke highly of the initiative, noting that the ancient Silk Road had played a vital role in exchanges between countries.

He stressed the need to promote inter-connectivity in transport, human resources and information. Removing trade barriers was also of crucial importance, he added.

In their meeting on Saturday, Xi and his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, agreed to advance cooperation in such fields as infrastructure, energy and counter-terrorism.

The two sides, Xi suggested, should work out concrete measures and projects to link the Belt and Road Initiative with Turkey's development strategy.

The CPEC is part of the initiative on the construction of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road (the Belt and Road Initiative), which was proposed by Chinese President Xi Jinping in 2013. It is aimed at building a trade and infrastructure network connecting Asia with Europe and Africa along the ancient Silk Road routes.

Turkey is a founding member of the China-proposed Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It signed a memorandum of understanding with China in November 2015 on the harmonization of the Belt and Road Initiative with Turkey's Middle Corridor project, a proposed regional transportation network between Turkey and China.

*Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2016

http://www.brecorder.com/top-news/pakistan/316997-turkey-keen-to-join-cpec.html

*

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## Dawood Ibrahim

Always  It will be a great honour if they jump bandwagon

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## Zulkarneyn

Excellent. Asia is the future, let's take our rightful place where we originally belong. Our European adventure is beginning to see an end

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## wiseone2

Zulkarneyn said:


> Excellent. Asia is the future, let's take our rightful place where we originally belong. Our European adventure is beginning to see an end



the grass is always greener on the other side

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## Mrc

This can be absolutely fantastic
..
Turkey is the most strategic location in the world... thats why roman changed their capital to istanbul...
U have access to europe asia africa from one place ...

If iran actually allows ... this can become a great thing

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Mods please merge the thread.....
*waz*
@WAJsal

https://defence.pk/threads/turkey-keen-to-join-cpec-turkish-minister.447908/

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

The opening of the Hamidiye University in Beijing (1901)

In 1901, Sultan Abdülhamid sent one of his advisors, Enver Pasha, along with numerous Islamic scholars, to China. When they arrived in Shanghai, they were warmly greeted by the Chinese authorities, and especially so by the local Chinese Muslims, who had lived in China for centuries. Sultan Abdülhamid later helped establish a Muslim university in Beijing, called the Peking (Beijing) Hamidiye University.

Turkish participation in CPEC is no surprise - it's a rational outcome..

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Mrc said:


> If iran actually allows ... this can become a great thing



Allow what?



HAKIKAT said:


> The opening of the Hamidiye University in Beijing (1901)
> 
> In 1901, Sultan Abdülhamid sent one of his advisors, Enver Pasha, along with numerous Islamic scholars, to China. When they arrived in Shanghai, they were warmly greeted by the Chinese authorities, and especially so by the local Chinese Muslims, who had lived in China for centuries. Sultan Abdülhamid later helped establish a Muslim university in Beijing, called the Peking (Beijing) Hamidiye University.
> 
> Turkish participation to CPEC is no surprise - it's a rational outcome..



I love your reasoning . U come out of nowhere and bomb the thread with such posts that anyone can hardly counter....

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Allow what?
> 
> 
> 
> I love your reasoning . U come out of nowhere and bomb the thread with such posts that anyone can hardly counter....



_..Ve Ma Tevfiki Illa Billah..._

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## Crixus

Hopefully they noticed your name and Turkey has started investing in manufacturing or service sector ... I can feel your happiness ..best of luck guys .

Its always good to have multiple countries investing , its not wise to put all eggs in one basket  



PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Allow what?
> 
> 
> 
> I love your reasoning . U come out of nowhere and bomb the thread with such posts that anyone can hardly counter....

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## Tameem

CPEC - is a game change not only for China Pakistan but for the whole world.

CPEC will bring PEACE to the world.

It help reduce tension in South China Sea.

It help China *not* to over-react to its adversaries in SCS, as its logistics already secured to an alternate route and deal more sensibly & vice versa.

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## Crixus

Its offtopic but related to Turkey  

Hey @HAKIKAT buddy is the story behind you Bismil city related to Indian freedom fighter who was hanged by brits or its just by fluke they share the name 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismil
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Prasad_Bismil

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## 艹艹艹

Hope Turkey can correct the mistakes made before
Do not support the activities of splitting China.

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## Mrc

Link up between turkey and pakistan through iranian territory i meant




PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Allow what?

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## Zulkarneyn

long_ said:


> Hope Turkey can correct the mistakes made before
> Do not support the activities of splitting China.


Xinjian was the propaganda of CIA in Turkey. They were spreading false news 24/7 so that we would support "repressed" Uyghurs.

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## T-123456

long_ said:


> Do not support the activities of splitting China.


When did we do that?
It was your countrymen who attacked and accused us of being a terrorist country.
I guess we all shouldnt listen to false propaganda.

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## RedHulk

Pakistani members don't get excited too much cause the route which will work between China and Turkey will be from central asia not from CPEC . So they are talking about the reviving of the old silk road. Until and unless Iran join CPEC, Turkey won't have access from CPEC. So Iran is the missing part of the puzzle.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

Crixus said:


> Hopefully they noticed your name and Turkey has started investing in manufacturing or service sector ... I can feel your happiness ..best of luck guys .
> 
> Its always good to have multiple countries investing , its not wise to put all eggs in one basket


THANKZ...... 



RedHulk said:


> Pakistani members don't get excited too much cause the route which will work between China and Turkey will be from central asia not from CPEC . So they are talking about the reviving of the old silk road. Until and unless Iran join CPEC, Turkey won't have access from CPEC. So Iran is the missing part of the puzzle.
> View attachment 332051



Yup...Thats why Iranians need to join CPEC and forget about Chabahar.....



RedHulk said:


> Pakistani members don't get excited too much cause the route which will work between China and Turkey will be from central asia not from CPEC . So they are talking about the reviving of the old silk road. Until and unless Iran join CPEC, Turkey won't have access from CPEC. So Iran is the missing part of the puzzle.
> View attachment 332051



Yup...Thats why Iranians need to join CPEC and forget about Chabahar.....

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## Ghazwa e Hind

Turk brothers are always welcome in Pakistan. Turkey and Pakistan should restart the zeal we showed in ECO. It is the time to implement the agreements made in ECO. Together we are more strong.

Unity is Strength infact. Lots of Love for Turks

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Crixus said:


> Its offtopic but related to Turkey
> 
> Hey @HAKIKAT buddy is the story behind you Bismil city related to Indian freedom fighter who was hanged by brits or its just by fluke they share the name
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bismil
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ram_Prasad_Bismil


It's a true story. It shows that not everybody in India was willing to serve the British. There are folks like Subas Bose who can rise above the petty differences and come up with a combined force of opposition...



RedHulk said:


> Pakistani members don't get excited too much cause the route which will work between China and Turkey will be from central asia not from CPEC . So they are talking about the reviving of the old silk road. Until and unless Iran join CPEC, Turkey won't have access from CPEC. So Iran is the missing part of the puzzle.
> View attachment 332051


Connectivity is only a part of it. Turkish companies need to invest in Pak and leverage CPEC optimally since it's a huge supply chain...

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## war&peace

HAKIKAT said:


> The opening of the Hamidiye University in Beijing (1901)
> 
> In 1901, Sultan Abdülhamid sent one of his advisors, Enver Pasha, along with numerous Islamic scholars, to China. When they arrived in Shanghai, they were warmly greeted by the Chinese authorities, and especially so by the local Chinese Muslims, who had lived in China for centuries. Sultan Abdülhamid later helped establish a Muslim university in Beijing, called the Peking (Beijing) Hamidiye University.
> 
> Turkish participation to CPEC is no surprise - it's a rational outcome..


Really interesting piece of information.

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## wiseone2

Mrc said:


> This can be absolutely fantastic
> ..
> Turkey is the most strategic location in the world... thats why roman changed their capital to istanbul...
> U have access to europe asia africa from one place ...
> 
> If iran actually allows ... this can become a great thing



It is amazing Turkey and Pakistan have strategic locations. They cannot do anything without Iran's help.
Maybe you have to change the definition for strategic location.


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## Crixus

No one liked Brits no one liked their rule but we were divided on relegious line , regional line caste line and what not ... but thanks Turkey for really honoring a pious souls who left everything for the country and freedom sake ....if you like Subhas bose then read abou Ashfaqullha Khan , Jatindra nath das ...we have many Gems 

Again thanks for confirming it, even our father of nation supported Khilaft movement to support Khalifa 


HAKIKAT said:


> It's a true story. It shows that not everybody in India was willing to serve the British. There are folks like Subas Bose who can rise above the petty differences and come up with a combined force of opposition...
> 
> 
> Connectivity is only a part of it. Turkish companies need to invest in Pak and leverage CPEC optimally since it's a huge supply chain...

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## Mrc

wiseone2 said:


> It is amazing Turkey and Pakistan have strategic locations. They cannot do anything without Iran's help.
> Maybe you have to change the definition for strategic location.




Even without iran it will give US enuf headache...
With iran its going to be a fcking migraine....

How much influence US has on iran to stop them from joining in??

Let me make a huge ☺ucking wild guess.....

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## Crixus

Turkey can easily outsource their electronic industry in Pakistan in their SEZs win win for both 


wiseone2 said:


> It is amazing Turkey and Pakistan have strategic locations. They cannot do anything without Iran's help.
> Maybe you have to change the definition for strategic location.

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## wiseone2

Mrc said:


> Even without iran it will give US enuf headache...
> With iran its going to be a fcking migraine....
> 
> How much influence US has on iran to stop them from joining in??
> 
> Let me make a huge ☺ucking wild guess.....



Why does Iran have to make everything with America solely in mind ? They have their own national interests. they have their own fish to fry.


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## Muhammad Omar



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## Mrc

wiseone2 said:


> Why does Iran have to make everything with America solely in mind ? They have their own national interests. they have their own fish to fry.



Usually that frying process involves an aircraft carier as well


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## Menace2Society

A new bloc is emerging. Iran and Russia will join too and everybody will enjoy prosperity and peace. Not this India/US rhetoric of control through fear and isolation and dirty subversive tactics.


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## Crixus

You are always welcome dear friend 


PaklovesTurkiye said:


> THANKZ......

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## T-123456

wiseone2 said:


> It is amazing Turkey and Pakistan have strategic locations. They cannot do anything without Iran's help.
> Maybe you have to change the definition for strategic location.


Maybe you should take a better look at the map of the area.
If Iran doesnt want to join,there are other territories to connect both.

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## Umair Nawaz

RedHulk said:


> Pakistani members don't get excited too much cause the route which will work between China and Turkey will be from central asia not from CPEC . So they are talking about the reviving of the old silk road. Until and unless Iran join CPEC, Turkey won't have access from CPEC. So Iran is the missing part of the puzzle.
> View attachment 332051


 @Mrc @T-123456 @MadDog
turkey isnt talking abt china's one road one belt initiative only which u have shown in diagram. It is specifically interested in CPEC and Gwadar through already existing ECO initiative (remember Gul Train?). Quetta-Tehran-Istanbul road rail network. In Quetta it is expected to be connected with already existing infrastructure of CPEC (CPEC's most important western route), That would take cargo to gwadar and karachi or vise versa.

These two countries as well as Bulgaria and Romania r also interested in this initiative. They believe that in future Pakistan may allow them to trade with india too by using Pakistan's great road and motorway infrastructure as well as through railway lines, which however Pakistan wont allow unless India gives up on Kashmir.

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## PaklovesTurkiye

@Sinopakfriend @Shotgunner51 ....Guyz, Can you highlight the importance of Turkey joining CPEC?

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## MadDog

RedHulk said:


> Pakistani members don't get excited too much cause the route which will work between China and Turkey will be from central asia not from CPEC . So they are talking about the reviving of the old silk road. Until and unless Iran join CPEC, Turkey won't have access from CPEC. So Iran is the missing part of the puzzle.
> View attachment 332051



Chahbahar port is barely 72km away and Pak-Iran border is around 40-50 km away from Gwadar, which is starting point of CPEC. Turkey can be connected through Iran, as was proposed in ECO. 

As we speak, regional strategic posturing is taking place, just the way it did after Nepoleonic Wars, after WWI and after WWII. The recent defence logistics pact signed between India and US, will now give strategic access to US into the heart of South Asia, thus making sure India's long term strategic interests are aligned with those of the US. This will further tighten the embrace between China and Russia and the role of both vis a vis Pakistan will rapidly increase. CPEC, North-South Lahore-Karachi gas pipeline ($2Billion worth being constructed by Russia), Gazprom's interests in investing in energy sector and recent offers of defence military equipment including the talks going on for SU-35 shows that gradually new strategic alignments are taking place. One can't forget the recent rapprochement between Russia and Turkey and see that development in light of the regional alliances taking shape. It would be natural for Iran to join this group, rather than to tow the line of US and India, which has no regional countries with them other than Japan which is pretty far away.

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## wiseone2

T-123456 said:


> Maybe you should take a better look at the map of the area.
> If Iran doesnt want to join,there are other territories to connect both.



you have to go through Russia, Caspian Sea or Central Asia. it won't be cheap. you might as well load the containers on a ship and send it like today


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## A-Team

Menace2Society said:


> A new bloc is emerging. Iran and Russia will join too and everybody will enjoy prosperity and peace. Not this India/US rhetoric of control through fear and isolation and dirty subversive tactics.



I like your optimism  you do realize that US is still the sole superpower, Russia, China and what not though from time to time make noises but in the greater scheme of things they will ditch all of their smaller partners if it really went against US interests. Watching and reading too much sputnik,russia today is not good for health 

Besides can you point me to some of the core converging point of interests between these so called new emerging bloc of yours?

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## wiseone2

A-Team said:


> I like your optimism  you do realize that US is still the sole superpower, Russia, China and what not though from time to time make noises but in the greater scheme of things they will ditch all of their smaller partners if it really went against US interests. Watching and reading too much sputnik,russia today is not good for health
> 
> Besides can you point me to some of the core converging point of interests between these so called new emerging bloc of yours?



None - other than the fact Pakistan have fallen out of favor with Uncle Sam

the irony is that Turkey, Iran and Pakistan were CENTO members with Uncle Sam joined at the hip. They choose not to do anything back then.

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## T-123456

wiseone2 said:


> you have to go through Russia, Caspian Sea or Central Asia. it won't be cheap. you might as well load the containers on a ship and send it like today


Check again,there is already a connection to Azerbaijan and over the caspian to Turkmenistan but im sure the Iranians will be in ,so no need for that.


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## wiseone2

T-123456 said:


> Check again,there is already a connection to Azerbaijan and over the caspian to Turkmenistan but im sure the Iranians will be in ,so no need for that.



From Turkmenistan how do you plan to reach Pakistan ?

Iran is not going to join if Pakistan and Turkey are too close to Saudi Arabia. you are on opposing sides in Syria.

It boils down to cost - how much are you saving ?


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## T-123456

wiseone2 said:


> From Turkmenistan how do you plan to reach Pakistan ?
> 
> Iran is not going to join if Pakistan and Turkey are too close to Saudi Arabia. you are on opposing sides in Syria.
> 
> It boils down to cost - how much are you saving ?


You should really do some research on Turkiye Iran Pakistan relations,there is no side picking.
We have good relations with both sides.
Edit:both KSA and Iran

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## Finer

So i was right. Turkey joining CPEC was the distinct possibility, but nonetheless, it was still possibility. Here it is, nearing towards official as we speak. What's up, Indians? Need any more pills to digest the reality of CPEC, Indians?

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## Crixus

The deals with India already crossing many billions 9 billion for super Sukhois more then 20 billion for stealth fighter , Russia is building nuclear reactors in India , T-90 modernization program , nuclear subs , S-400 , Frigrates . these deals are between Russia and India ... our relations with US are not at cost of Russia 

US may be important but they can never replace Russia .



MadDog said:


> Chahbahar port is barely 72km away and Pak-Iran border is around 40-50 km away from Gwadar, which is starting point of CPEC. Turkey can be connected through Iran, as was proposed in ECO.
> 
> As we speak, regional strategic posturing is taking place, just the way it did after Nepoleonic Wars, after WWI and after WWII. The recent defence logistics pact signed between India and US, will now give strategic access to US into the heart of South Asia, thus making sure India's long term strategic interests are aligned with those of the US. This will further tighten the embrace between China and Russia and the role of both vis a vis Pakistan will rapidly increase. CPEC, North-South Lahore-Karachi gas pipeline ($2Billion worth being constructed by Russia), Gazprom's interests in investing in energy sector and recent offers of defence military equipment including the talks going on for SU-35 shows that gradually new strategic alignments are taking place. One can't forget the recent rapprochement between Russia and Turkey and see that development in light of the regional alliances taking shape. It would be natural for Iran to join this group, rather than to tow the line of US and India, which has no regional countries with them other than Japan which is pretty far away.


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## Finer

T-123456 said:


> You should really do some research on Turkiye Iran Pakistan relations,there is no side picking.
> We have good relations with both sides.
> Edit:both KSA and Iran



After the failed military takeover in Turkey, Turkey government has grown closer with Iran and Russia more than ever. CPEC is looking strong now because Iran and Russia are also involved. Welcome to CPEC club, Turkey.

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## Mrc

Indians on fire as usual.....

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## T-123456

Fallen King said:


> After the failed military takeover in Turkey, Turkey government has grown closer with Iran and Russia more than ever. CPEC is looking strong now because Iran and Russia are also involved. Welcome to CPEC club, Turkey.


Show your flags,so we can see where you are from?

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## war&peace

Muhammad Omar said:


>



Hey bro where did you get this Turkish flag ? 

I have only Pak, China and USA


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## wiseone2

T-123456 said:


> You should really do some research on Turkiye Iran Pakistan relations,there is no side picking.
> We have good relations with both sides.
> Edit:both KSA and Iran



Which side are you in the Syrian civil war ?? Don't say neutral. 

Iran has a working relationship with both Turkey and Pakistan. They have enough countries to fight with - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, USA. Don;t you think so ?


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## Finer

wiseone2 said:


> From Turkmenistan how do you plan to reach Pakistan ?
> 
> Iran is not going to join if Pakistan and Turkey are too close to Saudi Arabia. you are on opposing sides in Syria.
> 
> It boils down to cost - how much are you saving ?



Iran has already joined CPEC despite of Pakistan relationship with KSA. Iran has pretty good understanding with Pakistan and its policy on ME regarding KSA and Iran. You should more worry about your own Chabby port.

I bet Modi's nightmare continues.

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## wiseone2

Crixus said:


> The deals with India already crossing many billions 9 billion for super Sukhois more then 20 billion for stealth fighter , Russia is building nuclear reactors in India , T-90 modernization program , nuclear subs , S-400 , Frigrates . these deals are between Russia and India ... our relations with US are not at cost of Russia
> 
> US may be important but they can never replace Russia .



For India Russia is a good cheap way to reduce dependence upon Uncle Sam


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## Finer

T-123456 said:


> Show your flags,so we can see where you are from?



Birth place= Pakistan.

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## newb3e

china has bigger pull for Iran than India turkeys announcement will put Iran in a difficult position either dump its ally India or become isolated in Asia..

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## Crixus

There is no permanent friend or Foe in international diplomacy and its not done at the cost of each other ...Russian goods are not cheap ...they are as capable as any western weapon ... and its always good to have weapons from multiple sources if you are country depends on others for weapons


wiseone2 said:


> For India Russia is a good cheap way to reduce dependence upon Uncle Sam

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## T-123456

wiseone2 said:


> Which side are you in the Syrian civil war ?? Don't say neutral.
> 
> Iran has a working relationship with both Turkey and Pakistan. They have enough countries to fight with - Saudi Arabia, UAE, Israel, USA. Don;t you think so ?



Turkiye only entered for its own interest,get ISIS out of our border and make sure there wont be a Kurdish state along our southern border.
The rest is not of our concern.
What those countries want to do to each other is again not our concern,we have good relations with all.

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## Finer

wiseone2 said:


> For India Russia is a good cheap way to reduce dependence upon Uncle Sam



You do know Russia is also planning to join CPEC given its closest collaboration with China and its improved diplomatic relationship with Pakistan, to the extent Central Asia have also expressed their desire to join CPEC club. Meanwhile, Indian card is becoming very clear for Russia, Iran and USA.

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## A-Team

wiseone2 said:


> None - other than the fact Pakistan have fallen out of favor with Uncle Sam
> 
> the irony is that Turkey, Iran and Pakistan were CENTO members with Uncle Sam joined at the hip. They choose not to do anything back then.



Question is will China, Russia, Turkey and others take a beating for Pakistan vis-a-vis US? I highly doubt it. Pakistan and as matter of fact all other tiny countries are insignificant when it comes to strategic interests of bigger folks like China, US.



T-123456 said:


> You should really do some research on Turkiye Iran Pakistan relations,there is no side picking.
> We have good relations with both sides.
> Edit:both KSA and Iran



Turkey and Iran on the same side, no! But leadership in both countries keep economics separate from politics, something Pak, India and Afg can learn from.


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## Super Falcon

Most welcome turkey hope other nations from Muslim world join too

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## T-123456

A-Team said:


> Question is will China, Russia, Turkey and others take a beating for Pakistan vis-a-vis US?


Those countries should try to get Afghanistan and Pakistan together and talk about it,make sure you have friendly relations because you are both our brothers.

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## The Sandman

Awesome news Hope Iran will join in too!

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## untitled

war&peace said:


> Hey bro where did you get this Turkish flag ?


Google Turkish flag smiley and insert link as image

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## The Sandman

war&peace said:


> Hey bro where did you get this Turkish flag ?
> 
> I have only Pak, China and USA


http://www.sherv.net/flag-emoticons.html

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## wiseone2

newb3e said:


> china has bigger pull for Iran than India turkeys announcement will put Iran in a difficult position either dump its ally India or become isolated in Asia..



Iran was isolated by Uncle Sam for 30 years and they survived. they have oil. something Pakistan and turkey do not have


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## newb3e

wiseone2 said:


> Iran was isolated by Uncle Sam for 30 years and they survived. they have oil. something Pakistan and turkey do not have



well there is a reason they shook hands with USA they want to progress and i dont see why Iran would support India if it can get better access to Eu,Central Asia ,China and Russian markets....dont you think you guys will sit in the corner moaning and regretting you dint become part of CPEC! or ull be posting on internet forums while your neighbors enjoy fruits of economic progression and prosperity!

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

It appears that not joining CPEC is not an option for the Eurasian landmass. Off course there are many other conceivable routes but who'll bell the cat?

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## Shotgunner51

HAKIKAT said:


> The opening of the Hamidiye University in Beijing (1901)
> 
> In 1901, Sultan Abdülhamid sent one of his advisors, Enver Pasha, along with numerous Islamic scholars, to China. When they arrived in Shanghai, they were warmly greeted by the Chinese authorities, and especially so by the local Chinese Muslims, who had lived in China for centuries. Sultan Abdülhamid later helped establish a Muslim university in Beijing, called the Peking (Beijing) Hamidiye University.
> 
> Turkish participation to CPEC is no surprise - it's a rational outcome..




Very interesting to know of such a historical connection, wish the two nations re-connect in the 21st century!

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## Menace2Society

A-Team said:


> I like your optimism  you do realize that US is still the sole superpower, Russia, China and what not though from time to time make noises but in the greater scheme of things they will ditch all of their smaller partners if it really went against US interests. Watching and reading too much sputnik,russia today is not good for health
> 
> Besides can you point me to some of the core converging point of interests between these so called new emerging bloc of yours?



We are heading into a multi polar world after 9/11. Asia is tired of war and interference. This bloc is a natural reaction to safeguarding peace and security of the region. Nobody wants another Afghanistan on their hands when Uncle Sam and NATO friends decide to fund their defense contractor buddies.

China is a major influencer and Pakistan is neighbor and key ally. An investment of CPEC's proportion is a strong indicator Beijing is entrusting Pakistan to play a part in their growth and are bringing Pakistan along with them for the journey. Indian hegemony in the region and a US vassal is a common threat. These mutual interests along with geography solidify the relationship.

Iran and Turkey clearly see the benefits of not just economic but socio economic benefits of collaborating more. A connected economic hub is the future. NATO will no longer be able to dictate war and "regime change".


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## HAIDER

Only if Iran join Pak-Turkey route...


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## Shotgunner51

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> @Sinopakfriend @Shotgunner51 ....Guyz, Can you highlight the importance of Turkey joining CPEC?



I didn't receive any tag, sorry for late response bro. Hands full now, gonna join discussion later, thanks!

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## Indus Pakistan

A-Team said:


> Question is will China, Russia, Turkey and others take a beating for Pakistan vis-a-vis US?


China will. Turkey would cling on but if the wind turned into gale force, she would let go. China.* No.* Period.

This does not make Turkey bad. Just that only China can stand upto USA. Russia would ditch Pakistan faster then you count upto 3.

And I am not basing this on emotional surge of hormones. but basing it on real strategic calculus.

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## wiseone2

newb3e said:


> well there is a reason they shook hands with USA they want to progress and i dont see why Iran would support India if it can get better access to Eu,Central Asia ,China and Russian markets....dont you think you guys will sit in the corner moaning and regretting you dint become part of CPEC! or ull be posting on internet forums while your neighbors enjoy fruits of economic progression and prosperity!



CPEC or no CPEC India does business with Russia, EU, China, Turkey, GCC and Iran. We will continue to do so.
Pakistan is the one that has opposed closer trade relations with India. 

The only relevance of CPEC is whether Indian goods can access Afghanistan or Central Asia. Pakistan has refused access. That makes CPEC moot. India choose to go with the Chabahar port to accomplish it.



Menace2Society said:


> We are heading into a multi polar world after 9/11. Asia is tired of war and interference. This bloc is a natural reaction to safeguarding peace and security of the region. Nobody wants another Afghanistan on their hands when Uncle Sam and NATO friends decide to fund their defense contractor buddies.
> 
> China is a major influencer and Pakistan is neighbor and key ally. An investment of CPEC's proportion is a strong indicator Beijing is entrusting Pakistan to play a part in their growth and are bringing Pakistan along with them for the journey. Indian hegemony in the region and a US vassal is a common threat. These mutual interests along with geography solidify the relationship.
> 
> Iran and Turkey clearly see the benefits of not just economic but socio economic benefits of collaborating more. A connected economic hub is the future. NATO will no longer be able to dictate war and "regime change".



Afghanistan is a mess because of Pakistan policy of strategic depth. you have been backing some horse or the other for the past 40 years. blaming uncle sam is no good.


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## Mrc

wiseone2 said:


> CPEC or no CPEC India does business with Russia, EU, China, Turkey, GCC and Iran. We will continue to do so.
> Pakistan is the one that has opposed closer trade relations with India.
> 
> The only relevance of CPEC is whether Indian goods can access Afghanistan or Central Asia. Pakistan has refused access. That makes CPEC moot. India choose to go with the Chabahar port to accomplish it.
> 
> 
> 
> Afghanistan is a mess because of Pakistan policy of strategic depth. you have been backing some horse or the other for the past 40 years. blaming uncle sam is no good.




please leave this thread than.....none of your concern.....

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Kaptaan said:


> China will. Turkey would cling on but if the wind turned into gale force, she would let go. China.* No.* Period.
> 
> This does not make Turkey bad. Just that only China can stand upto USA. Russia would ditch Pakistan faster then you count upto 3.
> 
> And I am not basing this on emotional surge of hormones. but basing it on real strategic calculus.


_Muhterem Kaptaan Bey_, Turkey knows where her best interests lie and where the world is heading to. She also knows the roles she will be entrusted to play. InshaAllah she will not disappoint her well wishers if the past is any reference..

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## Menace2Society

wiseone2 said:


> Afghanistan is a mess because of Pakistan policy of strategic depth. you have been backing some horse or the other for the past 40 years. blaming uncle sam is no good.



Uncle Sam created Taliban and funded Al Qaeda. Pakistan merely dealt with the mess they left. Lets not go changing history to suit your perverted agenda.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

A-Team said:


> Question is will China, Russia, Turkey and others take a beating for Pakistan vis-a-vis US? I highly doubt it. Pakistan and as matter of fact all other tiny countries are insignificant when it comes to strategic interests of bigger folks like China, US.
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey and Iran on the same side, no! But leadership in both countries keep economics separate from politics, something Pak, India and Afg can learn from.


If I were an Afgan with the Kabul government instead of thinking about Pak or Turkey I'd have studied Vietnam. With >70% divorce rate, the western folks can change their mind in no time and are gone before you know it...


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## wiseone2

Menace2Society said:


> Uncle Sam created Taliban and funded Al Qaeda. Pakistan merely dealt with the mess they left. Lets not go changing history to suit your perverted agenda.



Uncle Sam funded the Mujahdeen. The ISI choose the factions that got the money. After 1990 Uncle Sam washed their hands. The ISI choose to back the Taliban.


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## Tamilnadu

newb3e said:


> well there is a reason they shook hands with USA they want to progress and i dont see why Iran would support India if it can get better access to Eu,Central Asia ,China and Russian markets....dont you think you guys will sit in the corner moaning and regretting you dint become part of CPEC! or ull be posting on internet forums while your neighbors enjoy fruits of economic progression and prosperity!


If you look at the map Iran already have access to Eu,Central Asia ,China and Russian markets ... Its Pakistan which needs Iran to get access to these markets.....wont you think we had done good with out CPEC all these years....and also as some of your country men said ,we cannt join CPEC with out giving up Kashmir... First lets have fruits then we can deside if they are enjoyable or not,but till then we wish you guys all the best.



wiseone2 said:


> Uncle Sam funded the Mujahdeen. The ISI choose the factions that got the money. After 1990 Uncle Sam washed their hands. The ISI choose to back the Taliban.


Dont post off topic posts,most of post by them are like their wish list and not actually whats on the ground.


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## Menace2Society

wiseone2 said:


> Uncle Sam funded the Mujahdeen. The ISI choose the factions that got the money. After 1990 Uncle Sam washed their hands. The ISI choose to back the Taliban.



Pakistan backed who was in charge of Afghanistan.

India backed and funded Northern Alliance child molesting warlords to create even more conflict and civil war in 90s. Is that giving Afghanistan a viable alternative? India is just as responsible for the mess in Afghanistan as Uncle Sam.

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## wiseone2

Menace2Society said:


> Pakistan backed who was in charge of Afghanistan.
> 
> India backed and funded Northern Alliance child molesting warlords to create even more conflict and civil war in 90s. Is that giving Afghanistan a viable alternative? India is just as responsible for the mess in Afghanistan as Uncle Sam.



India had nothing to do with the Northern Alliance until the IA jetliner was hijacked to kandahar


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## Menace2Society

wiseone2 said:


> India had nothing to do with the Northern Alliance until the IA jetliner was hijacked to kandahar



Sure sure just like how you like to build up the fabrication of ISI being capable of controlling a country and blaming Pakistan for Taliban and Al Qaeda. Afghans can buy this bullshit but others see through it.

Uncle Sam face saving exercise of blaming somebody else for their f**k ups and Indians carrying on the lie because it suits their perverted agenda.

Central Asia and Pakistan deserve better and it will get better with CPEC. Indian subversion and hegemony of fear bye bye


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## Azadkashmir



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## war&peace

Zulkarneyn said:


> Excellent. Asia is the future, let's take our rightful place where we originally belong. Our European adventure is beginning to see an end


Future belongs to Asia anyway so it is the right time to look towards Asia.

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## Thorough Pro

Turk brothers are always welcome to join in.

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## LA se Karachi

If Iran and Turkey join CPEC, the possibilities for economic connectivity in the Eastern Hemisphere are almost limitless.

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## wiseone2

Menace2Society said:


> Sure sure just like how you like to build up the fabrication of ISI being capable of controlling a country and blaming Pakistan for Taliban and Al Qaeda. Afghans can buy this bullshit but others see through it.
> 
> Uncle Sam face saving exercise of blaming somebody else for their f**k ups and Indians carrying on the lie because it suits their perverted agenda.
> 
> Central Asia and Pakistan deserve better and it will get better with CPEC. Indian subversion and hegemony of fear bye bye



stop blaming Uncle Sam for all your screw ups


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## newb3e

Tamilnadu said:


> If you look at the map Iran already have access to Eu,Central Asia ,China and Russian markets ... Its Pakistan which needs Iran to get access to these markets.....wont you think we had done good with out CPEC all these years....and also as some of your country men said ,we cannt join CPEC with out giving up Kashmir... First lets have fruits then we can deside if they are enjoyable or not,but till then we wish you guys all the best.
> 
> 
> Dont post off topic posts,most of post by them are like their wish list and not actually whats on the ground.



By better access i meant trade agreements economic zones investments.CPEC has potential to unite asia under on common economic zone something like eu.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Umair Nawaz said:


> @Mrc @T-123456 @MadDog
> turkey isnt talking abt china's one road one belt initiative only which u have shown in diagram. It is specifically interested in CPEC and Gwadar through already existing ECO initiative (remember Gul Train?). Quetta-Tehran-Istanbul road rail network. In Quetta it is expected to be connected with already existing infrastructure of CPEC (CPEC's most important western route), That would take cargo to gwadar and karachi or vise versa.
> 
> These two countries as well as Bulgaria and Romania r also interested in this initiative. They believe that in future Pakistan may allow them to trade with india too by using Pakistan's great road and motorway infrastructure as well as through railway lines, which however Pakistan wont allow unless India gives up on Kashmir.


With Chinese tailwind it'll be difficult for Iran not to participate. There're no shortage of alternatives..

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## war&peace

HAKIKAT said:


> With Chinese tailwind it'll be difficult for Iran not to participate. There're no shortage of alternatives..


The best will be if Iran participates as it will benefit Iran too otherwise through sea and also through CAS are the alternatives like Turkey + Azerbaijan + Turkmenistan + Afghanistan + Pakistan
Iran is also interested in joining CPEC.

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## A-Team

HAKIKAT said:


> If I were an Afgan with the Kabul government instead of thinking about Pak or Turkey I'd have studied Vietnam. With >70% divorce rate, the western folks can change their mind in no time and are gone before you know it...



Says someone who is sitting in the West  Turkey has been going into extremes to join the EU, the current deal of refugees to allow Turkish folks to travel to schengen areas without a visa shows to which extreme Turkey is going in its outreach towards the West. I mean for the love of God you guys are using the the misery of others to score points over visa stuff?



T-123456 said:


> Those countries should try to get Afghanistan and Pakistan together and talk about it,make sure you have friendly relations because you are both our brothers.



Well Afghanistan has reached out to Pakistan via Turkey, China via the QCQ peace group but the Burka offensive and the current strikes in Kabul paint how those efforts are going!



Kaptaan said:


> China will. Turkey would cling on but if the wind turned into gale force, she would let go. China.* No.* Period.
> 
> This does not make Turkey bad. Just that only China can stand upto USA. Russia would ditch Pakistan faster then you count upto 3.
> 
> And I am not basing this on emotional surge of hormones. but basing it on real strategic calculus.



So Turkey and Russia are off as I anticipated as for China that is debatable. China's interest vis-a-vis US far outways her interests vis-a-vis Pakistan. Can you point to a couple of points where China will piss off to the extent that ruins here relationship with the US for Pakistan, what does China get for ruining a global relationship with the sole superpower?
I think for China Pakistan is of regional significance just because of her size, influence in the region etc, probably as a counterweight towards India but for China US is of global importance.

Anyways would be nice to have a couple of bullet points where China will go to an extreme to safeguard Pakistani interests against those of US.

Thanks


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## Khan_21

A-Team said:


> Question is will China, Russia, Turkey and others take a beating for Pakistan vis-a-vis US? I highly doubt it. Pakistan and as matter of fact all other tiny countries are insignificant when it comes to strategic interests of bigger folks like China, US.
> 
> 
> 
> Turkey and Iran on the same side, no! But leadership in both countries keep economics separate from politics, something Pak, India and Afg can learn from.



If the worlds 6th largest country , Nuclear power , 25th largest Economy by PPP and a regional power is tiny than I don't know what are you even smoking  . Pakistan right from 1947 has always been a very important political entity in the world .

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## Pandora

HAKIKAT said:


> With Chinese tailwind it'll be difficult for Iran not to participate. There're no shortage of alternatives..



Iran has been the biggest hindrance in Pak Turk corridor. Pakistan proposed friegth trains from pakistan turkey via iran but they shelved it by demanding ludicrous amount of tax on the cargo. Dont hope for anything from Iran.

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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

smuhs1 said:


> Iran has been the biggest hindrance in Pak Turk corridor. Pakistan proposed friegth trains from pakistan turkey via iran but they shelved it by demanding ludicrous amount of tax on the cargo. Dont hope for anything from Iran.


Turkish folks know the ground reality. There are alternatives without Iran. Insha'Allah Turkish companies will be second to China in investments in Pak..

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> @Sinopakfriend @Shotgunner51 ....Guyz, Can you highlight the importance of Turkey joining CPEC?



Dear Pak Brother,

Firstly, there should be no surprise here. It is the logical development. Tuk-Pak are two flags one country in the coming decades.

As I have stated many times, Turkey's rightful place is in Central, South West Asia and ME. The geo-economic, geo-political and cultural thrust is towards the East. 

Turkey is a pivotal state in the Med as Pak is the pivotal state in ME & Afro-Asian Ocean. 

The world's power architecture has changed. New realignments are happening faster than I thought possible. 

Turkey's leadership at all levels has decided to build diplomatic strength in the East. Have you seen how many defence related projects are being executed by Pak-Turk Friends? Deals with Rus and China are happening faster than before. Turkey is seeking strategic independence.

Fundamental fact is that Turkey was duped by the troublemakers and used/abused to disturb historically friendly relations with China. It was the proxies in Turkey which tried to destroy these historic relations.

This needs to change. I see the change already happening. Pak establishment can play a building bridges role here...to bring two of Paks brothers closer together.

Secondly, CPEC is not just infrastructural project... OBOR is a great Paradigm Shift...it offers win-win co-development to all. Away from death, destruction and subjogation.

OBOR is the architecture of the Future inter-state relationship. 

On it will be built a House wherein the Community of Prosperity shall reside. 

Those who join are the ones who seek peace and prosperity. Those who try to subotage it are the troublemakers who wish to see the old order of imperial oppression continue. Whoever is opposing / subotagging CPEC through terrorism is Pak enemy.

Not only Turkey but when Europe becomes free it will have to join OBOR/CPEC for its own future and prosperity.

As I have stated earlier...Iran is a tough nut to crack. Will it be constructive and fully join OBOR/CPEC or will it remain the odd one out by allowing those who wish CPEC harm to work from its soil. Iran has to make a choice soon.

I see a new cultural, political and philosophical axis emerging...away from death, destruction and oppression. *All happening without wars or destruction.

China has put money where its mouth is = OBOR. 

Pak has put all its strategic capital behind development = CPEC.*

I welcome Turkey with all my heart to join CPEC and make it an even bigger success. 

Please, also, see that Turkey by joining OBOR/CPEC will enhance its strategic leverage vis-a-vis the West. The Pashas in Istanbul are wise!

@HAKIKAT @T-123456 please, friends see whether I have observed something that is not aligned with your great country's inner dynamics?

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin friends/brothers please, see whether I have misstated anything not aligned with the Chinese inner dynamics.

As a Sino-Pak Friend and Brother, I just wish to see peace, prosperity and socio-economic development in the eurasian heartland and Asia Pacific region. 

Although I do not live in Asia but wish to see the revival happening. Humanity needs a new Constructive Framework.


.

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## TaiShang

Sinopakfriend said:


> Turkey's leadership at all levels has decided to build diplomatic strength in the East. Have you seen how many defence related projects are being executed by Pak-Turk Friends? Deals with Rus and China are happening faster than before. Turkey is seeking strategic independence.
> 
> Fundamental fact is that Turkey was duped by the troublemakers and used/abused to disturb historically friendly relations with China. It was the proxies in Turkey which tried to destroy these historic relations.



It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.

With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.

Syrian War exacerbated the situation.

Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.

This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.

This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.

Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.

Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.

Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.

Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.

We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.

Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.

The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.

It has nothing to do with Turkey.

I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.

Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.

China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.

What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.

@Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin

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## A-Team

Khan_21 said:


> If the worlds 6th largest country , Nuclear power , 25th largest Economy by PPP and a regional power is tiny than I don't know what are you even smoking  . Pakistan right from 1947 has always been a very important political entity in the world .



We are discussing whether of any of the mentioned countries would take a beating from the US for Pakistani interests.
Turkey, Russia won't as discussed, China is debatable. 

You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things, Afghanistan is even worse


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## Mangus Ortus Novem

TaiShang said:


> It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.
> 
> With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.
> 
> Syrian War exacerbated the situation.
> 
> Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.
> 
> This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.
> 
> This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.
> 
> Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.
> 
> Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.
> 
> Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.
> 
> Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.
> 
> We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.
> 
> Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.
> 
> The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.
> 
> It has nothing to do with Turkey.
> 
> I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.
> 
> Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.
> 
> China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.
> 
> What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin



Valid analysis...as always! 

What I have tried to interject is a course correction. I know I am too set in ways to be too direct..as in my eyes Subtelty is one of very High Virtue.

Course correction done by our Pak Brothers is laying the foundation of their socio-economic development. The Pak is trying hard to stop altogether to be vassal of the global empire. (Sorry, Pak brother! mean no disrespect. Rather a compliment!) But Pak too has a long way to go.

Terrorism has been the tool of choice by the global empire for centuries. We know it too well from our experiences past and present. Both China and Pak have suffered from the foreign sponsored terror.

China's offer is non-interference into internal affairs, co-development and win-win interstate relationships. 

Zero-sum games or winner takes all is the mindset of the global empire and its vassals.

However, Turkey joining SCO based on the principles of its framework is step in the right direction. Also, economic integeration does help states to seek mutual benefits and friendliness. 

My assertion is that Turkey was used by the global empire to create troubles for China. If Turkey wants to gain strategic independence then of course the conduct of its foreign policy must reflect that. Change does not happen overnight..yet overall direction needs some course correction to foster confidence among strategic partners in the East.

My sense is that this course correction is underway. 


China is not constructing an anti- anybody framework..rather its inclusive to anyone or everyone who wishes to join based on the principles of non-interference, mutual respect and win-win paradigm.

Yes, it is also true that I might have blind spots in my eagerness to see OBOR realisation. I guess old people must also learn constantly.

.

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## Khan_21

A-Team said:


> We are discussing whether of any of the mentioned countries would take a beating from the US for Pakistani interests.
> Turkey, Russia won't as discussed, China is debatable.
> 
> You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things, Afghanistan is even worse



Pakistan is one of the most important and influential political entities in the world possibly in top 20-25 . Just check The level of respect Raheel sharif commands wherever he goes around the world .

As for people taking a beating for us well CPEC itself is not in US interests as it wants balochistan to keep boiling for its own strategic interests. So its kind of a reduntant question. China has blocked alot of moves in united nations for us.


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## Sheikh Rauf

wiseone2 said:


> the grass is always greener on the other side




But jealous souls will not be answer'd so; They are not ever jealous for the cause, But jealous for they are jealous.

William Shakespeare

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## Kambojaric

A-Team said:


> I like your optimism  you do realize that US is still the sole superpower, Russia, China and what not though from time to time make noises but in the greater scheme of things they will ditch all of their smaller partners if it really went against US interests. Watching and reading too much sputnik,russia today is not good for health
> 
> Besides can you point me to some of the core converging point of interests between these so called new emerging bloc of yours?



The world is changing, and almost every political analyst will tell you we are heading towards a multipolar world (http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32427364, http://econ.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EX...165401~piPK:64165026~theSitePK:476883,00.html, http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/content/after-empire-birth-multipolar-world). When China created the Asian Infrastructure and Investment Bank, the US opposed it but could not stop its major allies like the UK from joining it. The US will undoubtedly remain a major power in the coming decades but the rise of China and its new found confidence is balancing polarity in international relations. If other countries like Russia, Pakistan, Turkey support China in the region then no doubt that we are witnessing the establishment of a multipolar world.

What is the rationale behind this group? Why to limit US influence in the region as much as possible. Turkey has just witnessed a US sponsored attempted coup, Russia and the US have been clashing for a long time and its allies in the wider region are being pressurized by groups the US supports such as the PYD Kurds attacking Assad. China is trying to exert its control in its traditional sphere of influence (East Asia, South China Sea), which is being challenged by America's local allies in the region notably Japan and Vietnam. India too is being used by the US to balance the rise of China in the region, which naturally destabilizes its parity viz a viz Pakistan and India. This automatically pushes Pakistan increasingly towards China and the new emerging Asian block.

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## The Eagle

A-Team said:


> We are discussing whether of any of the mentioned countries would take a beating from the US for Pakistani interests.
> Turkey, Russia won't as discussed, China is debatable.
> 
> You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things, Afghanistan is even worse



Like we were facing USSR for Afghanistan, would be honoured to hear the same from Afghanistan though we knew the capacity that Afghanistan cannot stand against US etc for us but mere words and support would have given the feeling of brotherhood as well. Who stands for whom, the time will tell which is depending upon nation's interests other than brotherhood and friendship as well. 

The thing is, new game will be played upon "Not to rely too much others" basis but the tactics and strategy of the one who is facing the threat yet the hidden support of many behind the curtain so none knows who is supporting or not. Nobody takes others role and it is clear that everyone is promised to own interests even if have to support someone else in case of such situation. There would be no beating but influence games played offensively sometimes without any direct incursions. 

Regarding your advocacy for US beating this, US beating that and who will take that beating, just to remind you, USSR was once super power as well with the same stance to beat this, beat that and there was saying who will take that beating for A or B but still beaten back so the reality could be, what if US is beaten back by A with the support of B,C,D and others. This is the rule and history repeats itself, so US coming with such attempt, there will be many other factors to support Pakistan other than anyone's strategic needs and old rivalry though we have already realized where Afghanistan would stand.




> You are not as important as you think you are in the greater scheme of things



This is not new from your side for Pakistan which very much resemble the India's stance, so no offense taken though you are not presenting the Afghanistan at all here but Kabul alone.

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## Zulkarneyn

Excellent posts!

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## T-123456

Zulkarneyn said:


> Excellent posts!


What is excellent about post 92,read it again.
The guy made us a terrorist creating and supporting country and you find that excellent?



Sinopakfriend said:


> Valid analysis...as always!


What is valid,maybe you should read it again.



TaiShang said:


> Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.


Show us proof and not just blah blah.


TaiShang said:


> Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.


Again where is the proof?
Your obsession with my country is hurting your brain,you should get it checked(you tagged/mentioned yourself,)
People like you are the cause of trouble between China and Turkiye,you are a genuine troll.

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## Zulkarneyn

T-123456 said:


> What is excellent about post 92,read it again.
> The guy made us a terrorist creating and supporting country and you find that excellent?


Other than him, there are excellent posts

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## T-123456

Zulkarneyn said:


> Other than him, there are excellent posts


He tagged/mentioned himself,another proof that his brain needs help.



TaiShang said:


> @Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin

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## Umair Nawaz

HAKIKAT said:


> With Chinese tailwind it'll be difficult for Iran not to participate. There're no shortage of alternatives..


Iran has already shown interest in Gwadar and CPEC, even its gas pipeline which russia (gazprom) is building in pakistan's territory (North south gas pipeline) its building the sector from Nawabshah in south till Lahore in north east. From there china will take over till Kashghar in western china. And from Irani boder till Nawabshah China is already building by the end of this year its expected to be used in Pakistan since by that time work will be finished in this first phase. That is actually the IPI gas pipeline where india is replaced by china as i was saying yesterday.

Look u need to understand that Iran no matter how it tries to project itself its still a small country in terms of population. It has 80 million people. Which means it has a consumer market of only 80 million, on top of that they have their own domestic industry which needs to be protected from the hordes of international multinational companies influx. This makes even 80 million market to lets say 20 million, 40 million depending upon how they try to protect them and their market share. Pakistan has a population of 200 million which makes it 5th or 8th largest in the planet earth. Which on top of that hasnt got much of domestic industrial base and dont have any domestic industrial policy which is substantial. Here they gain their 100% profit with full market access.

There is a economic reason too as to why China invests so much money into our market and why india is so eager to get its hands on our 200 million market. Gwadar port that it is building is being build in 3 phases. In first phase 4 berths have been build with capacity of 25000-30000 tons. The second phase which is being build these days have 4 more berths as of time being with capacity to handle 200,000 tons, these berths will be added more (10 under CPEC) which will take the total to 18 berths.

In third phase a total of 120 berths and capacity of 400,000 tons which will make her second largest port in the world after Shanghai which has capacity of 500,000 tons. Its already is 3rd deepest port.

Chahbahar only has 3-4 berths as of now and will have total of 10-12 berths in total with capacity of only 250,000 tons. Besides its not a deep sea port. It will need Gwadar's help which is only 180km in the east.

When it comes to iran do what Pakistan does ie ''not taking it seriously'' and just focus on yr own interests in economy, security, and strategic and iran cant do anything. Or if it does just send someone to meet israelis or americans on iran issue and that would put them into their place.

Just focus on regional economic connectivity with them. Militarily, economically, market size they cant compete with us, and that is where future lies.

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## wiseone2

Sheikh Rauf said:


> But jealous souls will not be answer'd so; They are not ever jealous for the cause, But jealous for they are jealous.
> 
> William Shakespeare


jealous of what ??


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## wiseone2

TaiShang said:


> It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.
> 
> With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.
> 
> Syrian War exacerbated the situation.
> 
> Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.
> 
> This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.
> 
> This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.
> 
> Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.
> 
> Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.
> 
> Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.
> 
> Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.
> 
> We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.
> 
> Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.
> 
> The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.
> 
> It has nothing to do with Turkey.
> 
> I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.
> 
> Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.
> 
> China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.
> 
> What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin



your thoughts are generally clear

why transport by road when maritime transport is a fraction of the cost ?


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## RedHulk

wiseone2 said:


> your thoughts are generally clear
> 
> why transport by road when maritime transport is a fraction of the cost ?


Time is money baby  
12 days CPEC vs 40 days Sea route ..means in 40 days by CPEC you will make roughly 3 times profit. This way China won't stop its production. 
But main thing is the world market is now saturated by products. The war on terror have destroyed countries economies, which could have been the potential cnsumers. G20 will keep on facing slow growth until and unless the west stop destroying countries and also G20 need to tap new markets. OBOR is a great initiative to do that. West relay on arms sales along loans when every country is ruined you can't sell arms or give loans.

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## wiseone2

RedHulk said:


> Time is money baby
> 12 days CPEC vs 40 days Sea route ..means in 40 days by CPEC you will make roughly 3 times profit. This way China won't stop its production.
> But main thing is the world market is now saturated by products. The war on terror have destroyed countries economies, which could have been the potential cnsumers. G20 will keep on facing slow growth until and unless the west stop destroying countries and also G20 need to tap new markets. OBOR is a great initiative to do that. West relay on arms sales along loans when every country is ruined you can't sell arms or give loans.



I dunno know where you get your numbers from. Crossing the Pacific or Atlantic Ocean takes as little as 4 days. Even on a slow ship it takes no more than 15 days.

CPEC will help interior China and landlocked Central Asian states if they join. But I see no benefit to any of the coastal countries or populations


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## TaiShang

Sinopakfriend said:


> However, Turkey joining SCO based on the principles of its framework is step in the right direction. Also, economic integeration does help states to seek mutual benefits and friendliness.



Certainly, the SCO is a well-established framework. In order to join it as a full member (Turkey is just an observer, which means that it does not join decision making process and it does not have to be bound by SCO resolutions), a country has to ratify the SCO charter in their national assembly.

The primary purpose of the SCO is to guard against three major threats: Separatism, terrorism, and extremism. If Turkey joins the group as a full member, this would definitely be a positive step in terms of fighting violent Jihadism, among others, and ethno-religious separatism.

China-Pakistan partnership in fighting terrorism has made a great contribution in peace in trouble areas across the border. The SCO has helped immensely in terms of maintaining peace and stability in otherwise unstable Central Asia which receives immense ideological and financial input in support of radical extremist policies.



Sinopakfriend said:


> My assertion is that Turkey was used by the global empire to create troubles for China. If Turkey wants to gain strategic independence then of course the conduct of its foreign policy must reflect that. Change does not happen overnight..yet overall direction needs some course correction to foster confidence among strategic partners in the East.
> 
> My sense is that this course correction is underway.



I respectfully do not share the same optimism with you, my friend. It won't stop in the near term due to over-radicalization of the present Turkish government. We had always have this tension with respect to certain Uighur segments receiving political and ideological assistance from Turkey, but it was mostly in the form of ethno-solidarity, which is more secular and benign in nature.

But, over the past decade, the support has turned into ethno-religious solidarity, which is violent and irrational.

Both are inherently separatist; hence, anti-state, but the second one is more dangerous and harder to contain. China perceives the present ruling party of Turkey as a radical Islamist force trying to achieve certain ideological and material ends by supporting a ethno-religious Uighur agenda.

Foreign powers are also involved, such as numerous Uighur terrorist organizations in Germany and the US (WUC is being the top terrorist organization), but foreign powers cannot explain the existence of Uighur terror organizations in Turkey.

A responsible government would not alow such an entity to organize on its soil. It is not possible to police every action, for sure, but, we know that those organizations receive government's blessings. That's no different from certain European countries harboring PKK elements.



Sinopakfriend said:


> China is not constructing an anti- anybody framework..rather its inclusive to anyone or everyone who wishes to join based on the principles of non-interference, mutual respect and win-win paradigm.
> 
> Yes, it is also true that I might have blind spots in my eagerness to see OBOR realisation. I guess old people must also learn constantly.



I join with you in your positive outlook on the OBOR, my friend. Despite all the intellectual skepticism arising from the West and certain anti-China factions in our region, OBOR is definitely an emerging paradigm. It is so encompassing and multilateral that it is sometimes hard to grasp the constant but minute improvements.

The over 40 direct rail links between China and Europe cannot be rendered non-existent even of one denies their existence in theory. There are solid developments, such as the CPEC. These are historic and monumental development. Perhaps, since we are right in the middle of it, we are unable to grasp it holistically.



wiseone2 said:


> why transport by road when maritime transport is a fraction of the cost ?



If you mean China-Europe or China-Pakistan-Central Asia trade by rail, it is in fact faster (and cheaper) than marine transport. This will be increasingly so if/when the gauge difference problem can be overcome in some practical way.

Now, with the addition of refrigerated rail cars in China's freight line, it is even possible to deliver fresh vegetable to Russia's west as well as all the way to Germany.

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## wiseone2

TaiShang said:


> Certainly, the SCO is a well-established framework. In order to join it as a full member (Turkey is just an observer, which means that it does not join decision making process and it does not have to be bound by SCO resolutions), a country has to ratify the SCO charter in their national assembly.
> 
> The primary purpose of the SCO is to guard against three major threats: Separatism, terrorism, and extremism. If Turkey joins the group as a full member, this would definitely be a positive step in terms of fighting violent Jihadism, among others, and ethno-religious separatism.
> 
> China-Pakistan partnership in fighting terrorism has made a great contribution in peace in trouble areas across the border. The SCO has helped immensely in terms of maintaining peace and stability in otherwise unstable Central Asia which receives immense ideological and financial input in support of radical extremist policies.
> 
> 
> 
> I respectfully do not share the same optimism with you, my friend. It won't stop in the near term due to over-radicalization of the present Turkish government. We had always have this tension with respect to certain Uighur segments receiving political and ideological assistance from Turkey, but it was mostly in the form of ethno-solidarity, which is more secular and benign in nature.
> 
> But, over the past decade, the support has turned into ethno-religious solidarity, which is violent and irrational.
> 
> Both are inherently separatist; hence, anti-state, but the second one is more dangerous and harder to contain. China perceives the present ruling party of Turkey as a radical Islamist force trying to achieve certain ideological and material ends by supporting a ethno-religious Uighur agenda.
> 
> Foreign powers are also involved, such as numerous Uighur terrorist organizations in Germany and the US (WUC is being the top terrorist organization), but foreign powers cannot explain the existence of Uighur terror organizations in Turkey.
> 
> A responsible government would not alow such an entity to organize on its soil. It is not possible to police every action, for sure, but, we know that those organizations receive government's blessings. That's no different from certain European countries harboring PKK elements.
> 
> 
> 
> I join with you in your positive outlook on the OBOR, my friend. Despite all the intellectual skepticism arising from the West and certain anti-China factions in our region, OBOR is definitely an emerging paradigm. It is so encompassing and multilateral that it is sometimes hard to grasp the constant but minute improvements.
> 
> The over 40 direct rail links between China and Europe cannot be rendered non-existent even of one denies their existence in theory. There are solid developments, such as the CPEC. These are historic and monumental development. Perhaps, since we are right in the middle of it, we are unable to grasp it holistically.
> 
> 
> 
> If you mean China-Europe or China-Pakistan-Central Asia trade by rail, it is in fact faster (and cheaper) than marine transport. This will be increasingly so if/when the gauge difference problem can be overcome in some practical way.
> 
> Now, with the addition of refrigerated rail cars in China's freight line, it is even possible to deliver fresh vegetable to Russia's west as well as all the way to Germany.



I see a use case for rail transport to Europe via Russia
I see use case for trade with Central Asia

IMO connecting to Middle East by road/rail is a hopeless proposition


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## Hakikat ve Hikmet

Umair Nawaz said:


> Iran has already shown interest in Gwadar and CPEC, even its gas pipeline which russia (gazprom) is building in pakistan's territory (North south gas pipeline) its building the sector from Nawabshah in south till Lahore in north east. From there china will take over till Kashghar in western china. And from Irani boder till Nawabshah China is already building by the end of this year its expected to be used in Pakistan since by that time work will be finished in this first phase. That is actually the IPI gas pipeline where india is replaced by china as i was saying yesterday.
> 
> Look u need to understand that Iran no matter how it tries to project itself its still a small country in terms of population. It has 80 million people. Which means it has a consumer market of only 80 million, on top of that they have their own domestic industry which needs to be protected from the hordes of international multinational companies influx. This makes even 80 million market to lets say 20 million, 40 million depending upon how they try to protect them and their market share. Pakistan has a population of 200 million which makes it 5th or 8th largest in the planet earth. Which on top of that hasnt got much of domestic industrial base and dont have any domestic industrial policy which is substantial. Here they gain their 100% profit with full market access.
> 
> There is a economic reason too as to why China invests so much money into our market and why india is so eager to get its hands on our 200 million market. Gwadar port that it is building is being build in 3 phases. In first phase 4 berths have been build with capacity of 25000-30000 tons. The second phase which is being build these days have 4 more berths as of time being with capacity to handle 200,000 tons, these berths will be added more (10 under CPEC) which will take the total to 18 berths.
> 
> In third phase a total of 120 berths and capacity of 400,000 tons which will make her second largest port in the world after Shanghai which has capacity of 500,000 tons. Its already is 3rd deepest port.
> 
> Chahbahar only has 3-4 berths as of now and will have total of 10-12 berths in total with capacity of only 250,000 tons. Besides its not a deep sea port. It will need Gwadar's help which is only 180km in the east.
> 
> When it comes to iran do what Pakistan does ie ''not taking it seriously'' and just focus on yr own interests in economy, security, and strategic and iran cant do anything. Or if it does just send someone to meet israelis or americans on iran and that would put them into their place.
> 
> Just focus on regional economic connectivity with them. Militarily, economically, market size they cant compete with us where future lies.


Thanks for the valuable info and critical analysis. IMHO, widespread participation of the Turkish companies is a win/win for both Pak and Turkey. And it'll strengthen Pak's hands in putting something new on CPEC table to fully leverage it by making it a multiple way street. By establishing their second bases in Pak they can not only access local markets but also explore the entire Far East. It's not just selling or buying goods, it's establishing economic and financial relationships with mutual benefits on a long term basis. No wonder Turkush authorities are keeping a very close eye and must be refurbishing their plans...

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## IceCold

A-Team said:


> I like your optimism  you do realize that US is still the sole superpower, Russia, China and what not though from time to time make noises but in the greater scheme of things they will ditch all of their smaller partners if it really went against US interests. Watching and reading too much sputnik,russia today is not good for health
> 
> Besides can you point me to some of the core converging point of interests between these so called new emerging bloc of yours?


After the snub that Obama just got in China and a clear message from China, you still think that China will ditch their smaller partners and not go against US interests? Is this verdic logic Afghans learned from their new buddies Indians? As for Russia look what they did in Crimea and the only one ditching their smaller partners was actually the US. Despite having a treaty with Ukraine, US did not intervene.



T-123456 said:


> Show your flags,so we can see where you are from?


Last time i asked him this he got very sentimental and accused me of calling him an Indian. I hope he does not with you.


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## kabooter_maila

PaklovesTurkiye said:


> Monday, 05 September 2016 18:28
> Posted by Parvez Jabri
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ​BEIJING: Turkish Minister of Economy Nihat Zeybekci Sunday expressed interest in the China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC), saying that his country had been paying close attention to and hoped to take part in the programme.
> 
> The Turkish minister expressed these views while speaking at a business summit held on the sideline of the G20 Summit in Hangzhou, China.
> 
> Turkey could serve as a bridge connecting China and Europe, especially in terms of logistics, Nihat Zeybekci was quoted by official Xinhua news agency.
> 
> The Turkish minister spoke highly of the initiative, noting that the ancient Silk Road had played a vital role in exchanges between countries.
> 
> He stressed the need to promote inter-connectivity in transport, human resources and information. Removing trade barriers was also of crucial importance, he added.
> 
> In their meeting on Saturday, Xi and his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, agreed to advance cooperation in such fields as infrastructure, energy and counter-terrorism.
> 
> The two sides, Xi suggested, should work out concrete measures and projects to link the Belt and Road Initiative with Turkey's development strategy.
> 
> The CPEC is part of the initiative on the construction of the Silk Road Economic Belt and the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road (the Belt and Road Initiative), which was proposed by Chinese President Xi Jinping in 2013. It is aimed at building a trade and infrastructure network connecting Asia with Europe and Africa along the ancient Silk Road routes.
> 
> Turkey is a founding member of the China-proposed Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank. It signed a memorandum of understanding with China in November 2015 on the harmonization of the Belt and Road Initiative with Turkey's Middle Corridor project, a proposed regional transportation network between Turkey and China.
> 
> *Copyright APP (Associated Press of Pakistan), 2016*
> 
> *http://www.brecorder.com/top-news/pakistan/316997-turkey-keen-to-join-cpec.html*
> 
> **



Welcome, our dear Turkish Bothers. It would be the utmost delight for us to have you as our partners in the CPEC project. Together we will make this strategic project a shining success that would greatly benefit our future generations. Welcome again.

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## TaiShang

wiseone2 said:


> I see a use case for rail transport to Europe via Russia
> I see use case for trade with Central Asia
> 
> IMO connecting to Middle East by road/rail is a hopeless proposition



Definitely. Connection to the Middle East is part of the 21st Century Maritime Silk Road, not The Silk Road Economic Belt.

The rail connections, for example, to Central and Western Europe have reduced transportation time by days, as compared to maritime transport.

Also, rail transport, once the required infrastructure is set up, cheaper than maritime transport. It also has the advantage of frequent stops (if necessary). Hence, a train to Germany or Spain can make several stops across Russia, Central Asia and Eastern Europe.

What is significant is technical fundamentals and faster customs clearing bureaucracy.


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## PaklovesTurkiye

Sinopakfriend said:


> Dear Pak Brother,
> 
> Firstly, there should be no surprise here. It is the logical development. Tuk-Pak are two flags one country in the coming decades.
> 
> As I have stated many times, Turkey's rightful place is in Central, South West Asia and ME. The geo-economic, geo-political and cultural thrust is towards the East.
> 
> Turkey is a pivotal state in the Med as Pak is the pivotal state in ME & Afro-Asian Ocean.
> 
> The world's power architecture has changed. New realignments are happening faster than I thought possible.
> 
> Turkey's leadership at all levels has decided to build diplomatic strength in the East. Have you seen how many defence related projects are being executed by Pak-Turk Friends? Deals with Rus and China are happening faster than before. Turkey is seeking strategic independence.
> 
> Fundamental fact is that Turkey was duped by the troublemakers and used/abused to disturb historically friendly relations with China. It was the proxies in Turkey which tried to destroy these historic relations.
> 
> This needs to change. I see the change already happening. Pak establishment can play a building bridges role here...to bring two of Paks brothers closer together.
> 
> Secondly, CPEC is not just infrastructural project... OBOR is a great Paradigm Shift...it offers win-win co-development to all. Away from death, destruction and subjogation.
> 
> OBOR is the architecture of the Future inter-state relationship.
> 
> On it will be built a House wherein the Community of Prosperity shall reside.
> 
> Those who join are the ones who seek peace and prosperity. Those who try to subotage it are the troublemakers who wish to see the old order of imperial oppression continue. Whoever is opposing / subotagging CPEC through terrorism is Pak enemy.
> 
> Not only Turkey but when Europe becomes free it will have to join OBOR/CPEC for its own future and prosperity.
> 
> As I have stated earlier...Iran is a tough nut to crack. Will it be constructive and fully join OBOR/CPEC or will it remain the odd one out by allowing those who wish CPEC harm to work from its soil. Iran has to make a choice soon.
> 
> I see a new cultural, political and philosophical axis emerging...away from death, destruction and oppression. *All happening without wars or destruction.
> 
> China has put money where its mouth is = OBOR.
> 
> Pak has put all its strategic capital behind development = CPEC.*
> 
> I welcome Turkey with all my heart to join CPEC and make it an even bigger success.
> 
> Please, also, see that Turkey by joining OBOR/CPEC will enhance its strategic leverage vis-a-vis the West. The Pashas in Istanbul are wise!
> 
> @HAKIKAT @T-123456 please, friends see whether I have observed something that is not aligned with your great country's inner dynamics?
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin friends/brothers please, see whether I have misstated anything not aligned with the Chinese inner dynamics.
> 
> As a Sino-Pak Friend and Brother, I just wish to see peace, prosperity and socio-economic development in the eurasian heartland and Asia Pacific region.
> 
> Although I do not live in Asia but wish to see the revival happening. Humanity needs a new Constructive Framework.
> 
> 
> .



I love your optimism.....I hear it. I hear it....Kudos to China, Turkey and Pakistan for leading the change in region...

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## Zulkarneyn

To Chinese members critical of Turkey's "alleged" operations in in Xinjiang via Uyghurs. The minority Uyghur factions has NOT been trained by Turkey, it's an operation conducted/orchestrated by USA and CIA. Watch this video from minute 38:00 till 42:00 or so. The leader of these operations Yusuf lives in USA.

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## Baybars Han

TaiShang said:


> It has been Turkey's traditional policy to intervene in others' internal affairs based on ethnic affiliation. This has been witnessed in post-Soviet polities, for instance, albeit with checkered success.
> 
> With the latest Islamist AKP government, the ethno-diplomacy was devolved/regressed into ethno-religio sectarian diplomacy.
> 
> Syrian War exacerbated the situation.
> 
> Turkey has actively supported the recruitment, training and transfer of Uighur jihadists into Syria, along with many others.
> 
> This is a direct national security threat to and a breach of China's sovereignty.
> 
> This is, in the long run, a threat to the entire Central Asia and South Asia, including our ally Pakistan.
> 
> Out of historical wisdom and strategic foresight, Pakistan maintained a balanced approach and advised Turkey on its Syrian policy. Pakistan refrained from intervening in Syria and was rightfully absent from Saudi-led Islam Army.
> 
> Turkey's position on Syria has not changed till today. The attempted coup has not changed anything. It was/is an internal fight between two shades of a similar Islamist faction on who would take over the traditionally secular state and change its very DNA to its liking.
> 
> Turkey's presence in China as a G20 member has not changed anything, as well. China is always a keen economic actor; its economic cooperation cannot be mistaken for strategic cooperation or trust.
> 
> Turkey harbors Uighur terrorist organizations that are engaged in anti-China activities, from soft jihadist propaganda to hard training.
> 
> We know by fact that there are Uighur (and Chechnyan) fighters in terrorists groups directly created and supplied by Turkey. It is impossible that such a dangerous situation would allow for any Eurasian political area being formed in West Asia and the Middle East.
> 
> Strategically impossible even if we wanted it.
> 
> The emerging Eurasia is basically composed of the OBOR's northern corridor which involves China, Mongolia, Pakistan, Central Asia,. Eastern and Western Europe. The investment, actualized rail and highway connections, and established SEZs (4 of 20 are in Russia, for example) all indicate that emerging Eurasianism is based on China-Russia strategic collaboration as it overarching framework.
> 
> It has nothing to do with Turkey.
> 
> I think China does not care Turkey stays in NATO, or destroys all the bridges with the West. So far, destroying bridges with the West has resulted in alliances made with Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Israel. It means nothing for China.
> 
> Emerging Eurasianism is not anti-West; but it is an alternative order making that endangers Western supremacy, which might be viewed as anti-West. But, in its essence, it is not anti-West. There are more than 30 Western countries in the AIIB.
> 
> China's is strategic-minded and practical. my friend, as you know very deeply and on the historical-philosophical level.
> 
> What China needs to see is simply the end of political and civil support and endorsement of terrorists that harbor ill intention against China.
> 
> @Chinese-Dragon @Shotgunner51 @ahojunk @TaiShang @Economic superpower @AndrewJin



You are honestly very stupid to say the least. You have been blinded by western propoganda and can't think rational. I'm sure in your mind somewhere there is still what the PM at the time said about China when you was killing Uyghurs.

Deleted relevant parts.


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## TaiShang

*Kyrgyzstan has China's full support as attack is probed 
China Daily, September 8, 2016
*
China will continue to fully support Kyrgyzstan as it investigates the terrorist attack on the Chinese embassy there and arrests the perpetrators, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said on Wednesday.




Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying takes questions from reporters at the press conference on Wednesday.

*Kyrgyzstan's National Security Committee has said that the suicide bomb attack in the Kyrgyz capital of Bishkek last week was ordered by Uyghur militants active in Syria and carried out by a member of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement.*

Three embassy staff members suffered minor injuries in the attack and were taken to a hospital; the attacker died. China has condemned the attack and urged Kyrgyz authorities to quickly and thoroughly investigate the incident.

"I want to stress that the East Turkestan terrorist forces representing the (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) has planned and carried out many terrorist incidents targeting China inside and outside the country and committed bloody crimes," Hua said at a regular news conference in Beijing.

Since the attack, Chinese law enforcement departments have closely followed Kyrgyzstan's investigation process and provided necessary assistance as required, she said.

The suicide bomber, whose car rammed the gate of the embassy on Aug. 30, was an ethnic Uyghur who held a Tajikistan passport under the name of Zoir Khalilov, the Kyrgyzstan security service said.

*Five Kyrgyz citizens suspected of complicity in the bomb attack have been detained, and an international arrest warrant has been issued for two other Kyrgyz citizens living in Turkey, it said.*

The East Turkestan Islamic Movement is a terrorist group that constitutes a serious threat to China, Syria, Central Asia and many other countries and regions, Hua said.

The group has been listed by the United Nations and the United Kingdom as a terrorist group.

"We will continue to keep in close communication with Kyrgyzstan and enhance anti-terrorism cooperation to firmly safeguard the safety of China, Kyrgyzstan and other countries in the region," Hua added.
***

@Sinopakfriend , the importance of the SCO framework which enables effective anti-terrorism effort. Participation in this grouping is welcome as it will enable a broader pool of information and law authority response.

For anything, Central Asia must be closely guarded against the spread of violent religious extremism and dogma.

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## Zulkarneyn

Pakistan offers easy access to the Indian ocean for China. Once China finishes its infrastructural project in Pakistan it will offer limitless oppurtunities as it will be able to station warships and presence in the ocean.

China's modus operandi is quite opposite to the West's. She doesn't operate on instilling ideology like the US. She is interested in preserving the independency/sovereignty of allied nations and invests in them economically for positive sum outcome or win/win.

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## Mangus Ortus Novem

TaiShang said:


> *Kyrgyzstan has China's full support as attack is probed
> China Daily, September 8, 2016
> *
> China will continue to fully support Kyrgyzstan as it investigates the terrorist attack on the Chinese embassy there and arrests the perpetrators, Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said on Wednesday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying takes questions from reporters at the press conference on Wednesday.
> 
> *Kyrgyzstan's National Security Committee has said that the suicide bomb attack in the Kyrgyz capital of Bishkek last week was ordered by Uyghur militants active in Syria and carried out by a member of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement.*
> 
> Three embassy staff members suffered minor injuries in the attack and were taken to a hospital; the attacker died. China has condemned the attack and urged Kyrgyz authorities to quickly and thoroughly investigate the incident.
> 
> "I want to stress that the East Turkestan terrorist forces representing the (East Turkestan Islamic Movement) has planned and carried out many terrorist incidents targeting China inside and outside the country and committed bloody crimes," Hua said at a regular news conference in Beijing.
> 
> Since the attack, Chinese law enforcement departments have closely followed Kyrgyzstan's investigation process and provided necessary assistance as required, she said.
> 
> The suicide bomber, whose car rammed the gate of the embassy on Aug. 30, was an ethnic Uyghur who held a Tajikistan passport under the name of Zoir Khalilov, the Kyrgyzstan security service said.
> 
> *Five Kyrgyz citizens suspected of complicity in the bomb attack have been detained, and an international arrest warrant has been issued for two other Kyrgyz citizens living in Turkey, it said.*
> 
> The East Turkestan Islamic Movement is a terrorist group that constitutes a serious threat to China, Syria, Central Asia and many other countries and regions, Hua said.
> 
> The group has been listed by the United Nations and the United Kingdom as a terrorist group.
> 
> "We will continue to keep in close communication with Kyrgyzstan and enhance anti-terrorism cooperation to firmly safeguard the safety of China, Kyrgyzstan and other countries in the region," Hua added.
> ***
> 
> @Sinopakfriend , the importance of the SCO framework which enables effective anti-terrorism effort. Participation in this grouping is welcome as it will enable a broader pool of information and law authority response.
> 
> For anything, Central Asia must be closely guarded against the spread of violent religious extremism and dogma.



SCO Framework is all about perservation of sovereignity of nation states, mutual cooperation in this regard and joint mechanism of security against unconventional threats.

Great rugs are stichted slowly...one stich at a time, with care and foresight. It takes time yet the end result is something of deep beauty.

SCO will be acting more robustly sooner than later. The mechanism of telligence sharing are already taking formalised shaped. Just look at Sino-Pak overt cooperation. Same is happening in Central asian space. 

The unconventional threat is foreign sponsored and facilitated. Whoever controls the eusarian space controls the future of geo-economic superemecy. CPEC is just but one manifestation of this deeper alignment or great power architecture if you will.

However, SCO is not a military alliance. And that makes it more flexible. Pak and india joining it can bring added benefits..though I am a bit cautious on this. Pak being fully in SCO camp came at cost for Pak strategic space vis-a-vis West and to some extent with Pak traditional friends in ME. Example, Pak staying away from Yemen proxy war or Syria for that matter.

The essence of circle is its centre. First the Core and then the Shell.

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## Umair Nawaz

HAKIKAT said:


> Thanks for the valuable info and critical analysis. IMHO, widespread participation of the Turkish companies is a win/win for both Pak and Turkey. And it'll strengthen Pak's hands in putting something new on CPEC table to fully leverage it by making it a multiple way street. By establishing their second bases in Pak they can not only access local markets but also explore the entire Far East. It's not just selling or buying goods, it's establishing economic and financial relationships with mutual benefits on a long term basis. No wonder Turkush authorities are keeping a very close eye and must be refurbishing their plans...


Thats the plan. We now would allow only those countries to take advantage of our location and market size which r our time tested friends, thats our way of saying thank You in a more real way rather then empty rhetoric and goodwill gestures.

Now since we r moving away from American influence day by day, we r making new alliances with Asiatic countries and with countries in our region, thats where Russia and its EuroAsia union, China with its CPEC, SCO etc and Iran and Turkey comes in through ECO initiatives into CPEC. 

Key here is regional economic connectivity. Thats the key point to focus o while talking to iran in this subject, and not taking here rhetoric and delusions seriously. Just focus on *WHAT U WANT FROM THEM AS A SOVEREIGN NATION.* About rest, leave them be.

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## sohailkhatri

Turkish are our beloved brothers, participation of Turkey may cause the change the economy game across the world.
We hope for the best.

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## wiseone2

Zulkarneyn said:


> Pakistan offers easy access to the Indian ocean for China. Once China finishes its infrastructural project in Pakistan it will offer limitless oppurtunities as it will be able to station warships and presence in the ocean.
> 
> China's modus operandi is quite opposite to the West's. She doesn't operate on instilling ideology like the US. She is interested in preserving the independency/sovereignty of allied nations and invests in them economically for positive sum outcome or win/win.



What is wrong about ideology ?? If it is bad like communism it will lose. You need ideas to run the world.
For the better or worse the West offers ideas


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## Zulkarneyn

wiseone2 said:


> What is wrong about ideology ?? If it is bad like communism it will lose. You need ideas to run the world.
> For the better or worse the West offers ideas


Western ideas and ideals are doomed to fail. They lead to corruption, exploitation and false superiority complex that leads to colonisation

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## TaiShang

Sinopakfriend said:


> SCO Framework is all about perservation of sovereignity of nation states, mutual cooperation in this regard and joint mechanism of security against unconventional threats.
> 
> Great rugs are stichted slowly...one stich at a time, with care and foresight. It takes time yet the end result is something of deep beauty.
> 
> SCO will be acting more robustly sooner than later. The mechanism of telligence sharing are already taking formalised shaped. Just look at Sino-Pak overt cooperation. Same is happening in Central asian space.
> 
> The unconventional threat is foreign sponsored and facilitated. Whoever controls the eusarian space controls the future of geo-economic superemecy. CPEC is just but one manifestation of this deeper alignment or great power architecture if you will.
> 
> However, SCO is not a military alliance. And that makes it more flexible. Pak and india joining it can bring added benefits..though I am a bit cautious on this. Pak being fully in SCO camp came at cost for Pak strategic space vis-a-vis West and to some extent with Pak traditional friends in ME. Example, Pak staying away from Yemen proxy war or Syria for that matter.
> 
> The essence of circle is its centre. First the Core and then the Shell.



The emerging Eurasian space centered, initially, on the New Eurasian Land Bridge of the OBOR is fiercely opposed by the systemic leadership. This can be viewed quite simply by the overt attempts to stop the enlargement of the AIIB.

But China's ideas have a certain virtue: They are organic and non-confrontational. Hence, they do not directly challenge, but, in reality, they offer the most existential challenge by proving to be viable alternatives. This creates serious systemic reverberations. The old has died, but the new cannot be born. The rise of religious and ethnic extremism and violence in recent years is likely a product of such systemic stiffness.

China offers a better model, and a less destructive move to a higher state of being as polities and nations.

The SCO is an important aspect/component of this new model. Rightfully, it is located at the heart of the Eurasian political space, Central Asia. From there it is now moving to include wider circles.

Pakistan and India's membership into the group is a welcome news so long as the institutional core of the SCO remains firm, regulated and goal-oriented. In the end, if there is going to be a new Eurasian supercontinent, Pakistan and India (as much as China and India) will have to learn to coexist and co-prosper.

***

As for the 'Uighur terrorism and Turkey' issue raised here, we are practical, result-oriented polity. Past experience can be re-constructed depending on present reality. China does definitely have its ways and means of assessment of the situation. It is a goal-oriented and principle-driven country. If the goal of zero-terrorism, zero-extremism, zero-separatism is achieved and the principle of non-intervention and respect for sovereignty is recognized, China can work with any state actor.

China will continue to eliminate terrorists regardless of foreign sentiment.

If one fails to recognize and respects this, them one s bound to be sidelined by the world's largest trading nation and leading institution-maker.

After all, all China wants is non-interference in internal affairs of a nation. This is something China gives out to other plentifully. It is China's right to demand the same treatment from others.

Just absorb the 400-year old lesson and practice of nation-state and state sovereignty, and move on.

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## wiseone2

Zulkarneyn said:


> Western ideas and ideals are doomed to fail. They lead to corruption, exploitation and false superiority complex that leads to colonisation



What is an Western idea and Western ideal ?? The truth is non-Westerners of all shades queue up to emigrate to Western lands. that speaks for itself


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## TaiShang

A further note, if you look at the initial map of the OBOR (2013 version), you will see the southern Eurasian corridor passing through Turkey via central Asia.







The map, however, has been factually updated.

While the northern route has progressed very fast, the southern route has been modified. Now, the Central Asian Route also follows the direction of the Northern Route, a little bit down south, but without touching West Asia.

There are more than 20 rail-links between Central Asia and Europe that originates from China's West and Central regions.

The very volatile and unstable situation in Turkey and the larger region must have played a big role here. But, the lingering issue of sponsorship of terrorist and separatist activities must also have weighted big here.

What Turkey misses here is huge; once the alternative Southern Route is fully established and interest linkages are created along the road, there will be no need for another route across Turkey into Europe.

In fact, as I see it from my extensive studies, China's policy makers are quite content with the positive response from Central Asia and Eastern Europe.

My point is, Turkey can easily be sidelined as it, unlike the popular opinion in Turkey, provides little geographical-logistical advantage that cannot be off-set or by-passed.

CPEC into a stabilized Afghanistan and Iran via Pakistan would provide the perfect access to the entire Levant and Gulf.

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## wiseone2

TaiShang said:


> A further note, if you look at the initial map of the OBOR (2013 version), you will see the southern Eurasian corridor passing through Turkey via central Asia.
> 
> 
> View attachment 332604
> 
> 
> The map, however, has been factually updated.
> 
> While the northern route has progressed very fast, the southern route has been modified. Now, the Central Asian Route also follows the direction of the Northern Route, a little bit down south, but without touching West Asia.
> 
> There are more than 20 rail-links between Central Asia and Europe that originates from China's West and Central regions.
> 
> The very volatile and unstable situation in Turkey and the larger region must have played a big role here. But, the lingering issue of sponsorship of terrorist and separatist activities must have weighted big here.
> 
> What Turkey misses here is huge; once the alternative Southern Route is fully established and interest linkages are created along the road, there will be no need for another route across Turkey into Europe.
> 
> In fact, as I see it from my extensive studies, China's policy makers are quite content with the positive response from Central Asia and Eastern Europe.
> 
> My point is, Turkey can easily be sidelined as it, unlike the popular opinion in Turkey, provides little geographical-logistical advantage that cannot be off-set or by-passed.
> 
> CPEC into a stabilized Afghanistan and Iran via Pakistan would provide the perfect access to the entire Levant and Gulf.


the map does not have CPEC in it


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## TaiShang

wiseone2 said:


> the map does not have CPEC in it



CPEC is not one of the six main corridors. It is part of the southern corridor.

The map is not conclusive, as I pointed out above. In fact, it has been constantly modified.

OBOR being so comprehensive and involving so many actors, it has to remain organic. It cannot be rigid.

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## Zulkarneyn

wiseone2 said:


> The truth is non-Westerners of all shades queue up to emigrate to Western lands. that speaks for itself


The exploited flee to the exploiter, true, which is a natural process


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## wiseone2

TaiShang said:


> CPEC is not one of the six main corridors. It is part of the southern corridor.
> 
> The map is not conclusive, as I pointed out above. In fact, it has been constantly modified.
> 
> OBOR being so comprehensive and involving so many actors, it has to remain organic. It cannot be rigid.


thanks for the explanation



Zulkarneyn said:


> The exploited flee to the exploiter, true, which is a natural process



it does not explain why people from diverse backgrounds and cultures would want to emigrate


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