# Redrawn map for Muslim world



## Neo

Saturday, August 26, 2006javascript:; http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/print.asp?page=2006\08\26\story_26-8-2006_pg7_1
Redrawn map for Muslim world

_By Khalid Hasan_

WASHINGTON: Muslim circles have expressed alarm and disgust at the publication of a redrawn Muslim world in a journal closely linked to the US armed forces.

The Armed Forces Journal, which has published the redrawn map of the world of Islam, along with a long explanatory article, is published by the Army Times Publishing Company, a part of Gannett Company, Inc, the worldÃ¢â¬â¢s largest publisher of professional military and defence periodicals. 

The proposed scheme places Pakistan on the chopping block. According to the plan, Ã¢â¬ÅIran, a state with madcap boundaries, would lose a great deal of territory to Unified Azerbaijan, Free Kurdistan, the Arab Shia State and Free Balochistan, but would gain the provinces around Herat in todayÃ¢â¬â¢s Afghanistan Ã¢â¬â a region with a historical and linguistic affinity for Persia. Iran would, in effect, become an ethnic Persian state again, with the most difficult question being whether or not it should keep the port of Bandar Abbas or surrender it to the Arab Shia State. 

What Afghanistan would lose to Persia in the west, it would gain in the east, as PakistanÃ¢â¬â¢s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with their Afghan brethren Pakistan, another unnatural state, would also lose its Baloch territory to Free Balochistan. The remaining Ã¢â¬ËnaturalÃ¢â¬â¢ Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi. 

The city-states of the UAE would have a mixed fate Ã¢â¬â as they probably will in reality. Some might be incorporated in the Arab Shia State ringing much of the Persian Gulf Ã¢â¬Â¦ Since all puritanical cultures are hypocritical, Dubai, of necessity, would be allowed to retain its playground status for rich debauchees. Kuwait would remain within its current borders, as would Oman.Ã¢â¬ÂÃ¢â¬Â

The redrawn map claims to Ã¢â¬Åredress the wrongs suffered by the most significant Ã¢â¬ËcheatedÃ¢â¬â¢ population groups, such as the Kurds, Baloch and Arab Shia, but still fail to account adequately for Middle Eastern Christians, Bahais, Ismailis, Naqshbandis and many another numerically lesser minorities.Ã¢â¬Â It adds that Ã¢â¬Åone haunting wrong can never be redressed with a reward of territory: the genocide perpetrated against the Armenians by the dying Ottoman Empire.Ã¢â¬Â 

The author, Ralph Peters, argues that even those who abhor the topic of altering borders would be well-served to engage in an exercise that attempts to conceive a fairer, if still imperfect, amendment of national boundaries Ã¢â¬Åbetween the Bosporus and the Indus.Ã¢â¬Â According to him, Ã¢â¬ÅWe are dealing with colossal, man-made deformities that will not stop generating hatred and violence until they are corrected. As for those who refuse to Ã¢â¬Ëthink the unthinkableÃ¢â¬â¢, declaring that boundaries must not change and thatÃ¢â¬â¢s that, it pays to remember that boundaries have never stopped changing through the centuries. Borders have never been static, and many frontiers, from Congo through Kosovo to the Caucasus, are changing even now.Ã¢â¬Â He adds that Ã¢â¬Åethnic cleansing worksÃ¢â¬Â.

Peter argues that for Irael to have any hope of living in Ã¢â¬Åreasonable peaceÃ¢â¬Â with its neighbours, it will have to return to its pre-1967 borders, with essential local adjustments for legitimate security concerns. He writes that the most Ã¢â¬Åglaring injusticeÃ¢â¬Â between the Balkan Mountains and the Himalayas is the absence of an independent Kurdish state. There are between 27 million and 36 million Kurds living in contiguous regions in the Middle East. He calls Iraq an unnatural state and calls for a greater Kurdish state, which will include Turkish, Syrian and Iranian Kurds. A Free Kurdistan, stretching from Diyarbakir through Tabriz, would be the most pro-Western state between Bulgaria and Japan, he adds. 

IraqÃ¢â¬â¢s three Sunni-majority provinces might eventually choose to unify with a Syria that loses its littoral to a Mediterranean-oriented Greater Lebanon. The Shia south of old Iraq would form the basis of an Arab Shia State rimming much of the Persian Gulf. Jordan would retain its current territory, with some southward expansion at Saudi expense. For its part, the unnatural state of Saudi Arabia would suffer as great a dismantling as Pakistan. 

The author is of the opinion that a root cause of the broad stagnation in the Muslim world is the Saudi royal familyÃ¢â¬â¢s treatment of Mecca and Medina as their Ã¢â¬Åfiefdom.Ã¢â¬Â With IslamÃ¢â¬â¢s holiest shrines under the control of the Saudis, they have been able to project their Wahhabi vision of a Ã¢â¬Ådisciplinarian, intolerant faith far beyond their borders.Ã¢â¬Â The rise of the Saudis to wealth and, consequently, influence has been Ã¢â¬Åthe worst thingÃ¢â¬Â to happen to the Muslim world as a whole since the advent of Islam, and the worst thing to happen to Arabs since the Ottoman Ã¢â¬â if not the Mongol Ã¢â¬â conquest. . 

Peter writes, Ã¢â¬ÅWhile non-Muslims could not effect a change in the control of IslamÃ¢â¬â¢s holy cities, imagine how much healthier the Muslim world might become were Mecca and Medina ruled by a rotating council representative of the worldÃ¢â¬â¢s major Muslim schools and movements in an Islamic Sacred State Ã¢â¬â a sort of Muslim super-Vatican Ã¢â¬â where the future of a great faith might be debated rather than merely decreed.


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\08\26\story_26-8-2006_pg7_1


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## RAPTOR

Its nothing more than a Zionist /NeoCon wish list, i wouldnt pay any attention to it.

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## Srirangan

I think I saw the map on some other forum, anybody want to see it?

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## Srirangan

From: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899/

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## Tiki Tam Tam

Neo,

You started the thread.

It is said here that this is a Neocon dream.

Are you as Neo conning us with being a Neocon?

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## Srirangan

This is a purely speculative map by the author at AFJ.

Why does Afghanistan get the northern chunk of NA/Kashmir ..


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Jana,

See the map.

Seen the area of Free Balochistan?

You go hammer and tongs and yet did not pay heed to what I said.

Here you have what some of you call a Neocon dream.

So, keep your eyes and brains open and ticking all the time and not cloud it with pet hates. 

The obvious sometimes turn out to be not so obvious!

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## Tiki Tam Tam

The MQM and the Mohajirs won't be too happy with the way it has been distributed.

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## RAPTOR

I wonder what the future map of bharat/hindustan will look like. I can see at least 30 different princely states being carved out of that artificial and unatural country.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

I wonder too.

How does India come into this?

It is a US map.

Go tqake on the US. But then they may extend the range of their fighters which are only violating the Pakistani airspace till NWFP at will. That won't be a nice thing, right?

Or are you suggesting that the new map of India would encompass US as a part of India!

If so, it is a ridiculous idea.

I forget your actual name and I don't want to be like the President of USA candidate whom you supported that people you don't know can be called maccaca.

I won't call you a maccaca!

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## Neo

I know...but the ideology is so **** and being discussed over all major forums so I thought we could share a few laughs together and posted it here.


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## Neo

Salim said:


> Neo,
> 
> You started the thread.
> 
> It is said here that this is a Neocon dream.
> 
> Are you as Neo conning us with being a Neocon?


 
Haha lol...I've always admired your way with words Sir!  
Me a Neo Conservative...nah...you know be well enough to know better.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Neo said:


> I know...but the ideology is so **** and being discussed over all major forums so I thought we could share a few laughs together and posted it here.



Neo,

Don't take anything lightly.

Everything has some origin.

Even the State of Israel or Pakistan was never contemplated in the old days.

It happened and they exist and both are doing well.

Did anyone believe US would invade Iraq and Saddam made a common criminal when there are many common criminals passing off as leaders of countries?

Did anyone believe that Kerry could be so damned that his election became a farce.

Did anyone believe that Gore would get defeated?

Now Turkey, which is feared and reviled by the Arabs is once again coming back into the Arab scene. Did any Arab believe that this could happen?

Did you ever believe that the good work done in Afghanistan would lead to the branding of Moslems as terrorists? And all Asian profiled as terrorist no matter which country they came from?

Don't take anything at face value.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

I am keeping this map and I shall follow the world events and see if anything is suspiciously close to this map.

That is what I will do.

It affects me as much as it affects you.


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## Neo

*By Anwar Iqbal*

WASHINGTON, Aug 26: *The US State Department has rejected suggestions that Washington is planning to redraft the boundaries of the greater Middle East, including Pakistan, along ethnic and religious lines.
*
The purported plan appeared recently in the US Armed Forces Journal along with two maps showing the new boundaries.

*The article, by Ralph Peters, was the work of an individual and did not reflect the views of the US government, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said.
*
Ã¢â¬ÅWe are working very hard for a new Middle East that is a free democratic Middle East where people can realise a better way of life, a more prosperous, better educated way of life Ã¢â¬Â¦ but thereÃ¢â¬â¢s no question of redrawing the maps,Ã¢â¬Â he said. The call for changes in the Middle East, he said, was not generated by the US. Ã¢â¬ÅThis is a call that comes from the Middle East itself, from the people of the Middle East. So our vision for the Middle East is a vision that is coming from the Middle East itself and that is for a more free, democratic and prosperous Middle East.Ã¢â¬Â

In the article, titled Ã¢â¬ËBlood borders,Ã¢â¬â¢ Mr Peters argues that borders in the Middle East and Africa were Ã¢â¬Åthe most arbitrary and distortedÃ¢â¬Â in the world and need restructuring. Four countries Ã¢â¬â Pakistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Turkey Ã¢â¬â are singled out for major re-adjustments. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are also defined as Ã¢â¬Åunnatural statesÃ¢â¬Â.

*The author argues that such adjustments were necessary to redress the grievances of ethnic and religious minorities living inside large Muslim states.
*
Ã¢â¬ÅThe boundaries projected in the maps accompanying this article redress the wrongs suffered by the most significant Ã¢â¬ËcheatedÃ¢â¬â¢ population groups, such as the Kurds, Baloch and Arab Shia, but still *fail to account adequately for Middle Eastern Christians, Bahais, Ismailis, Naqshbandis and many another numerically lesser minorities.Ã¢â¬Â
*
The author also argues that for Israel to have any hope of living in reasonable peace with its neighbours, it will have to return to its pre-1967 borders Ã¢â¬â with essential local adjustments for legitimate security concerns.

But he admits that the issue of the territories surrounding Jerusalem, a city stained with thousands of years of blood, Ã¢â¬Åmay prove intractable beyond our lifetimes.Ã¢â¬Â

According to him, Ã¢â¬Åthe most glaring injustice in the notoriously unjust lands between the Balkan Mountains and the HimalayasÃ¢â¬Â is the absence of an independent Kurdish state. There are between 27 million and 36 million Kurds living in contiguous regions in the Middle East, greater than the population of present-day Iraq, which makes the Kurds the worldÃ¢â¬â¢s largest ethnic group without a state of its own.

While pleading for the creation of an independent Kurdistan, the author says that such a state, stretching from Diyarbakir through Tabriz, Ã¢â¬Åwould be the most pro-Western state between Bulgaria and Japan.Ã¢â¬Â

A just alignment in the region would leave IraqÃ¢â¬â¢s three Sunni-majority provinces as a truncated state that might eventually choose to unify with Syria that loses its littoral to a Mediterranean-oriented Greater Lebanon.

The Shia south of old Iraq would form the basis of an Arab Shia state rimming much of the Gulf. Jordan would retain its current territory, with some southward expansion at Saudi expense. Ã¢â¬ÅFor its part, the unnatural state of Saudi Arabia would suffer as great a dismantling as Pakistan.Ã¢â¬Â

The author suggests the holy cities of Makkah and Madina be ruled by a rotating council representative of the worldÃ¢â¬â¢s major Muslim schools and movements in an Islamic Sacred State Ã¢â¬â a sort of Muslim super-Vatican Ã¢â¬â Ã¢â¬Ëwhere the future of a great faith might be debated rather than merely decreed.Ã¢â¬â¢

Ã¢â¬ÅTrue justice Ã¢â¬â which we might not like Ã¢â¬â would also give Saudi ArabiaÃ¢â¬â¢s coastal oil fields to the Shia Arabs who populate that sub-region, while a south-eastern quadrant would go to Yemen.

The Saudi family is to be given a small Saudi Homelands Independent Territory around Riyadh.

Iran would lose a great deal of territory to Unified Azerbaijan, Free Kurdistan, the Arab Shia State and Free Balochistan, but would gain the provinces around Herat in todayÃ¢â¬â¢s Afghanistan Ã¢â¬â a region with a historical and linguistic affinity for Persia. Iran would, in effect, become an ethnic Persian state again, with the most difficult question being whether or not it should keep the port of Bandar Abbas or surrender it to the Arab Shia State.

What Afghanistan would lose to Persia in the west, it would gain in the east, as PakistanÃ¢â¬â¢s Northwest Frontier tribes would be reunited with the Afghans. Pakistan would also lose its Baloch territory to Free Balochistan. The remaining Ã¢â¬ÅnaturalÃ¢â¬Â Pakistan would lie entirely east of the Indus, except for a westward spur near Karachi.

The city-states of the United Arab Emirates would have a mixed fate Ã¢â¬â as they probably will in reality. Some might be incorporated in the Arab Shia State ringing much of the Persian Gulf (a state more likely to evolve as a counterbalance to, rather than an ally of, Persian Iran). Since all puritanical cultures are hypocritical, Ã¢â¬ÅDubai, of necessity, would be allowed to retain its playground status for rich debauchees. Kuwait would remain within its current borders, as would Oman.Ã¢â¬Â

http://www.dawn.com/2006/08/27/top11.htm


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## Neo

Salim said:


> Neo,
> 
> Don't take anything lightly.
> 
> Everything has some origin.
> 
> Even the State of Israel or Pakistan was never contemplated in the old days.
> 
> It happened and they exist and both are doing well.
> 
> Did anyone believe US would invade Iraq and Saddam made a common criminal when there are many common criminals passing off as leaders of countries?
> 
> Did anyone believe that Kerry could be so damned that his election became a farce.
> 
> Did anyone believe that Gore would get defeated?
> 
> Now Turkey, which is feared and reviled by the Arabs is once again coming back into the Arab scene. Did any Arab believe that this could happen?
> 
> Did you ever believe that the good work done in Afghanistan would lead to the branding of Moslems as terrorists? And all Asian profiled as terrorist no matter which country they came from?
> 
> Don't take anything at face value.


 
All true Sir, I couldn't deny mosty of the points.
But to be honest there won't be new boundries without US' interference. Iraq today is devided only because of the US, same goes for Afghanistan.
But the ground reality is that the status quo will change as soon as the US leaves!

The Author fails to look at other non mulsim minorites; What about the 5 million Coptic Christians in Egypt, the Druz in Lebanon or Greek Orthodox Christians in Armenia/Azerbaijan?

Pakistan is suppose to lose Balochistan and NWFP to Persia and Afghanistan respectively but doesn't gain anything on the eastern front!!
Original map of Pakistan included the cities of Delhi, Luchnow and even Agrah!

The whole article is biased, author fails to impress me.
But I agree, this could be a major wetdream to many opposed to Pakistan or many arab countires.


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## Neo

Salim said:


> I am keeping this map and I shall follow the world events and see if anything is suspiciously close to this map.
> 
> That is what I will do.


Put it next to The Greater Israel Map!  



> It affects me as much as it affects you.


If ME, CAR and Pakistan start to disintegrate, this will affect all of Asia!


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## Srirangan

I have my own reservations regarding that .. but can some please explain to me why does Afghanistan get Kashmir's Northern Areas? Especially after we have fought so bitterly over it .. Grrr :-X


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## Tiki Tam Tam

The US turns wet dreams into reality! 

And then starts the whining and the blame game of blaming everyone but oneself!


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## RAPTOR

Im amused by the idiot author of this map as to how he includes Pakistan in the middle east? 99% of the population does not speak arabic and has no connection whatsoever to the Middle East. He then produces greater balochistan? lol...with a total balochi population including Iran of around 10 million people....how is he going to achieve that? It is the 160 million people of Pakistan that will absorb "greater" balochistan. Peshawar will absorb Kabul........Lahore will absorb Dehli and Agra.....Sindh will absorb Thar/Rajastan......Karachi will absorb Gujrat. It is Pakistan that is the true homeland for all these people. The unatural state of india will not survive in its current form...for it is a state glued together only by force.
The sacred land and ancestor of the Indus Civilization is Pakistan .

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## Tiki Tam Tam

.What a stupid analysis.

First learn to survive and then take time out for dreams!

I do hope that the Mods will have the courage to accept some home truths if I should start them here.

It would ruin the atrmosphere as it has already started to happen.


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## Neo

Salim said:


> The US turns wet dreams into reality!
> 
> And then starts the whining and the blame game of blaming everyone but oneself!


Thats the priviledge of being a sole Superpower but even then 9/11 happened!
A further devided ME would make things worse for Uncle, how many proxy states can you create?
Kurdistan is the only entity that would side with the US, rest hates the west including Uncle.
One can devide them but will never conquer!


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Check the other thread about subservient Moslem leaders.

The US has already divided the ME and their writ runs.

The Saudi Kings, the Jordanian King, the Egyptian President, the Lebanese PM, the Iraqi Shia PM, the CAR is practically bought over, even Qaddafi....they all love the US.


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## A.Rahman

Salim said:


> Check the other thread about subservient Moslem leaders.
> 
> The US has already divided the ME and their writ runs.
> 
> The Saudi Kings, the Jordanian King, the Egyptian President, the Lebanese PM, the Iraqi Shia PM, the CAR is practically bought over, even Qaddafi....they all love the US.


 
Unfortunately you are right Salim.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

Rehman,

That is what I am trying to state.

Let's face the facts and deal with them squarely and not run away from the actual and delude that all is hunky dory.

Nothing is hunky dory!

One has to get one's act together and get cracking!


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## A.Rahman

Sound funny but what this was written in an Armed Forces Journal


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## Srirangan

> It is the 160 million people of Pakistan that will *absorb* "greater" balochistan. Peshawar will *absorb* Kabul........Lahore will *absorb* Dehli and Agra.....Sindh will *absorb* Thar/Rajastan......Karachi will *absorb* Gujrat.



What are you sponges???

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## Tiki Tam Tam

A.Rahman said:


> Sound funny but what this was written in an Armed Forces Journal
> 
> look at the sh*t going on in Balochistan



Maybe JANA would re-do the article and keep my points in view.

One should look at events in a world perspective and not be unidirectional.

If one does not do so, they will miss the woods for the trees!

Though I am sceptical, yet it could be an individual idea, but then one wonders if an Army Journal would produce a map that could be real explosive!


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## Neo

*Redrawing national boundaries:Another think tank fantasy*

Friday September 01, 2006 (1215 PST)

Yasser Latif Hamdani 

http://www.pakistaniforces.com/forums/http://www.paktribune.com/news/topstories.phphttp://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=152849http://www.paktribune.com/mypaktrib...ational boundaries:Another think tank fantasy
*Armed Forces Journal has recently come up with another "brilliant" scheme of reconfiguring nation states in the Muslim World. The author of this new scheme, Ralph Peters, is in a long line of armchair theorists who have probably done more to hurt the cause of US reputation in the Muslim World than the real and perceived US injustices against the Muslims. For one thing this brilliant gentleman is actually arguing for the realignment of the Muslim World along linguistic and exclusivist national lines in the information age, when the concern should, very logically, be to transform nation-states into constitutional democratic republics which guarantee good governance and equal rights to all their citizens regardless of their ethnic, linguistic and religious origin. *


The question of who died and gave Mr. Peters the right to determine what constitutes a natural or an unnatural state is frankly beyond the scope of this discussion. It is also pretty clear to this writer, why Peters chose in particular the nation states between the Bosphorus and Indus for such vivisection and not , for example, the region lying between Pakistan and Bangladesh known as Modern India which is a single state presiding over thousands of ethnic, caste and parochial divides. Surely the idea that India has worked out a democratic framework is not enough for Mr. Peters to spare that country from similar vivisection, for after all Kashmiri, Nagaland, Sikh and other 15 odd freedom movements in India have as much validity as those he mentions in his article i.e. Kurds, Balochs, Naqshbandis, Eastern Christians, Ismailis, Shias etc etc. Besides if democracy was criterion, how would this reconfiguration along minor communitarian lines help that cause?

The states that he hints at, as ripe for dismantling, are as natural as any states of Europe, Asia, Africa or the Americas . Turkey, Iran and Pakistan are the historic successor states to great Muslim Empires of the past.In this respect they are not unlike Austria , Hungary, Germania, Spain and Britain etc.Pakistan especially is not just the natural consequence of Muslim suzerainty over South Asia, but has during the ages remained an independent entity for four millenia, distinct both from Afghanistan and the modern state of India, joined with either of these states only for brief periods under great empires i.e. Mauraya, Ghaznavid, Turk and British. The Khyber Pass is a natural demarcation between Afghanistan and Pakistan and itis quite clear that no matter what cultural ties bind Afghans with Pakistani pushtoons, most Pushtoons will always choose to stand united with Pakistan.

Perhaps the Pushtoon regions of Afghanistan will break away and join Pakistan but the possibility of it happening the other way around would require wishes to be transformed into rocketships. As for the Balochs, they number 7 million in total of the Pakistani population of 150 million people, whereas Balochistan as a province makes up almost half the landmass of the Pakistani republic. Even out of these 7 million Balochs, only a couple of hundred thousand follow the anti-Pakistan tribal leaders.The idea that this would some how spin into a major separatist movement is again mere ignorance of the geo-political realities of this Pakistani region.

Since ancient times, the rivalry of Iran and Turan has been immortalized in folklores. Ottoman and Safavid Empires gave this rivalry a new meaning. The states that later became part of USSR were historically part of these two empires. Therefore, there is a much greater chance of parts of Azerbaijan and the Central Asian states joining either Iran or Turkey than the other way around.Truth be told, the dream of having a Kurdistan, as the most pro-Western state between Bulgaria and Japan, is perhaps at the heart of Mr. Peters mental, geographic and political gymnastics.

While I am no fan of Saudi Arabia and its Wahabbi fundamentalism, I wonder what prompted Mr. Peters to declare Saudi Arabia an unnatural state? If being united by a monarchy is his evidence, should he not raise a similar objection against the United Kingdom, which historically has been united by the royal family. Spare a thought oh great scholar for Scotland. Why not dismantle this most unnatural state and make independent England, Wales,Scotland and Ireland happy? Surely there must be some great and historic injustices that might be reversed over there? You see, I am very open minded about the idea of altering borders. Come to think of it, what a great wrong would be reversed if California was to be made part of Mexico. Why stop there- how about Texas, or is the blood of slave-owners spilt at Alamo more important than the blood of millions who sacrificed their lives (or even those lives sacrificed unwillingly) in conflicts that created these borders in the first place?

The fact of the matter is that with the recession of colonialism, the Muslim World entered into the nation state phase and after 80 odd years, nationalboundaries within the Muslimdom" are now concrete realities. The way forward is not to breakdown and create new ghettos but to take existing nation states and help them democratize and modernize to become in step with the modern world. Thus this new redrawing the borders proposal is atleast 60 years too late. Instead of coming up with these hair brained schemes to alter existing borders in this day and age, perhaps a policy of hands off non-intervention (especially an end to all support to dictators and military rulers) would have been more advisable.

Unfortunately, American attitude historically has always favored wrong turns and a foolhardy belief in the notion that two wrongs make a right. This is precisely why Mr. Peters says so openly "Ethnic cleansing works!" Truth be told, it is impossible in this day and age to satisfy each and every imagined identity group. Who is the judge of which claim takes priority, is a question that would continue to haunt those who wish to follow Mr.Peters' scheme. Instead my suggestion is: Give democracy a chance and stop aiding military dictators in these states.


http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.shtml?152849


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## Tiki Tam Tam

But it is Pax Americana which has replaced Pax Britannia


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## Sid

That is what I call, 'in Mr Ralph Peter's face!' Perhaps, he should get back to some medication instead of this re-drawing of boundaries B.S.


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## Tiki Tam Tam

One should not take things to heart.

These are what is called "Mind Games".

The only aspect that is worrisome is that it was published in a US Army Magazine!

Therefore, instead of taking it to heart or getting wild, one should think what's up and watch the world events more intently and hopefully those who chart the desitiny of nations apply the antidote.


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## Sid

Who's taking it to heart? Who's going 'wild'? Are you?


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## araz

They planned, and Allah planned. And Indeed Allah is the gbetter planner.(AlQuran).
As to the muslim world of today, the way we are , we deserve to be beaten even more. when people lose their way and their aims they deserve to be punished the way we are being.
Araz


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## Tiki Tam Tam

That is too harsh a sentiment, if I may say so.


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## KashifAsrar

Salim said:


> One should not take things to heart.
> 
> These are what is called "Mind Games".
> 
> The only aspect that is worrisome is that it was published in a US Army Magazine!
> 
> Therefore, instead of taking it to heart or getting wild, one should think what's up and watch the world events more intently and hopefully those who chart the desitiny of nations apply the antidote.


 I agree !! It is published in a US Army magazine !! It is no fantasy or co-incedence or political fiction !!! It is a reality !!



araz said:


> They planned, and Allah planned. And Indeed Allah is the gbetter planner.(AlQuran).
> As to the muslim world of today, the way we are , we deserve to be beaten even more. when people lose their way and their aims they deserve to be punished the way we are being.
> Araz


Yes you are also right arz ..... Unfortunately !!!
Kashif


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## araz

firstly sorry for the delayed response.As somebody said "Hamaisha Der Kardeta hun mein"
Brother, realities are harsh. You are very welcome to criticize me but loook at the realities. We have forgotten all that was good in Islam. Humility, piety, fear of Allah, pain for the suffering of the ummah, no superiority of Ajami over Arabi, except in Taqwa, Jehad bil Nafs, lust for knowledge , critical self analysis. I could go on and on. From one great Ummah, we have been degraded into smaller units with larger than life egos.Please look around you. Sindhi, punjabi, Baluch, Afghan, Mohajir,Irani,the list goes on, nobody turns around and says "hey wait, we are muslims first. We are gathered on the basis of the kalima La Ilaha Illallah---.nothing more nothing less.Till that day we will continue to suffer.No education, plenty of money but no planning of what to do with it. No research worth mentioning and most importantly no critical analysis of self and life around oneself. The reaction that we see around us is nationalistic interpretation of Islam, not Islam. This is why I lament and cry at the fate of the Ummah. This is why I feel that every tom dick and harry will succeed against us. We have forgotten our roots and therefore we suffer.
WaSalam
Araz


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## lulldapull

I wouldn't mind this map at all. If these ethnicities are unhappy with one another, then so be it. Let everyone be free in his own God-damn country. The mechanations for the first installment of this redrawing is already happening. Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi haramia, Turkey and all these countries will be redrawn, and for the better as minorities are being oppressed. The Baloch have decided to cooperate with the World Federalists to make this happen at least for ourselves. Kurdistan would be another fact of life, and half of it is already autonomous, and will declare independance in due time, followed by Darfur and all these independance movements.


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## Srirangan

I don't think ethnicities could be a valid basis for countries in the modern era. Look at India, China, United States .. hell Europe is merging - diversity is an asset - order out of chaos - the Romans said it first.

But then that doesn't mean religion can be a valid basis for a nation either. :-S


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## lulldapull

Srirangan said:


> I don't think ethnicities could be a valid basis for countries in the modern era. Look at India, China, United States .. hell Europe is merging - diversity is an asset - order out of chaos - the Romans said it first.
> 
> But then that doesn't mean religion can be a valid basis for a nation either. :-S



Yeah but we need to look at this situation from a different lens Srirangan! If human rights are being violated and entire nations being forced to go along a failed idea and concept then it makes no sense. 

Carve these hollow nations out so there can be peace! The EU is as divided as ever on everything and anything......and wont last.


----------



## Srirangan

lulldapull said:


> Yeah but we need to look at this situation from a different lens Srirangan! If human rights are being violated and entire nations being forced to go along a failed idea and concept then it makes no sense.
> 
> Carve these hollow nations out so there can be peace! The EU is as divided as ever on everything and anything......and wont last.


Sure. An independent Baluchistan would be better than the current Quagmire in which the military dictator has to repeat every 2 weeks that the "writ" of the "government" will be "enforced". That's enough testament to the current mess.

But, in a long term perspective, will an independent Baluchistan be sustainable. Perhaps it can. It's got access to warm waters, has mineral resources and can import what it lacks.

Will that mean ethnicity based countries are a good idea? I doubt it. If you are a small country with a not-so-large population, sooner than later you'll find the Arab's or Persians or the _Gora's_ and/or their proxies interfering.


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## lulldapull

Srirangan said:


> Sure. An independent Baluchistan would be better than the current Quagmire in which the military dictator has to repeat every 2 weeks that the "writ" of the "government" will be "enforced". That's enough testament to the current mess.
> 
> But, in a long term perspective, will an independent Baluchistan be sustainable. Perhaps it can. It's got access to warm waters, has mineral resources and can import what it lacks.
> 
> Will that mean ethnicity based countries are a good idea? I doubt it. If you are a small country with a not-so-large population, sooner than later you'll find the Arab's or Persians or the _Gora's_ and/or their proxies interfering.



Yaar we have a hell of a better chance at it than the land-locked Kurds do. We have excellent relations with our neighbours up north including Russia and Afghanistan and Iran is neutral in this conflict (So far).....and we enjoy strong Indian support. Balochistan is rich in NG, coal and minerals. Already the population absolutely hates Punjabi/ Mohajir nexus and this Punjabi military. These guys can't leave their contonments and go out unescorted, or we kill these bastards. Same in Waziristan and the entire western NWFP. Whatever it will be yaar whether with these American terrorists or with Russia's help, we will get our independance one day. Punjabastan is dead for us!


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## sparten

*Punjabastan is dead for us*
I really don't think anyone in Pakistan cares a hoot what an *Iranian* thinks.


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## EagleEyes

Baluchistan will gain its independence how? With the few guns, and the few terrorists who dont even have a proper dress code?


----------



## Srirangan

WebMaster said:


> Baluchistan will gain its independence how? With the few guns, and the few terrorists who dont even have a proper dress code?


Even if it does, is it sustainable? Does it have institutions which the country can rely on?


----------



## sparten

No and no. Noether our friend Lulldapull, (from Iranian Balochistan BTW) or any body here, has any idea about what Balochistan is like. Having travelled the greater part of it myself, I can tell you, that place is empty. They main population is either in the Pakhtun areas, or in the coast (which is not even balochi). Its too sparsely populated to be anything but unviable.


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## Srirangan

True. A Baloch state would need strong institutions, an educated (preferably english speaking) middle class and strong and unwavering foreign aid for a decade or two. Only then would it survive, even if it manages to secure independence.


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## zraver

don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Kurdistan will be a reality sooner or later. And does anyone really think the House of Suad deserves to control Mecca and Medina? Breaking Pakistan up is obviuousloy a bad idea but creating some workable states out of truly failed states and given control of Islam's holiest sites to the control of Muslims not royalty is a good idea.

If Iran can ever move past the religious nut jobs trying to provoke a war their democracy is the model for the region. It does have universal sufferage and now decades of multi-party elections


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## Srirangan

> Kurdistan will be a reality sooner or later.





> And does anyone really think the House of Suad deserves to control Mecca and Medina?





> Breaking Pakistan up is obviuousloy a bad idea..





> ..but creating some workable states out of truly failed states



Seriously, fail to understand your logic. You are saying:
4+1=5
2+3=5
but 
3+2!=5


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## dabong1

I have a map to go with the 2nd american civil war but it will not me upload the pic.It says that the file size is to big.Does anybody know a way around it so i can post the map.


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## Keysersoze

I have to ask.......

What the hell is with the "second american civil war" nonsense? and what the hell does it have to do with the topic?


----------



## Cheetah786

what is the Middle east redrawn map have any thing to do with balochistan.Nothing more then Indian wet dreams.please all stay on topic.becuase if i bring in kashmere then indians will get a wedgie.
how is the independent kashmere will hold on its own.lets discuss that.


----------



## dabong1

It all began September 11th, 2001 with an attack on America by fundamentalist terrorists from the Middle East. When a series of incompetent leaders in the US reacted by involving the nations military in the middle eastern war between isrealis and arabs, American fortunes steadily declined. First there was the insurgencies in Iraq, then full civil war which did nothing but pit the American military in the crossfire. Eventually the war raged on and grew. Attacks on America's ally, Isreal culminated into a chaotic battle where America felt compelled to throw in the bulk of their already overstretched military. This battle took place between, America, Isreal, and some nato allies and Iran, Syria, Lebanon and various middle eastern groups. Two massive armies met in a pitched battle in Syria. It was like a prophesy, taking place near the place called armageddon. Many religious groups thought this truely was a sign of the end times. NATO got some intelligence that the other side had low yield nuclear weapons and that the arab army was actually on a massive suicide mission. The Americans didn't heed the advice of NATO. NATO kept the bulk of her army in reserve, while the American army and her Isrealis ally went headlong into the trap. The resulting conflagration destroyed the state of isael and left the Western forces in tatters -- shattered and ineffective. This left the overstretched American military in other parts of the middle east isolated and targeted. The US government lost all prestige all over the world. Save the massive nuclear stockpiles in the US, the United States was no longer seen as a super power, but as a weak has been. 

In the meantime, the hard core conservative forces that started the oil wars, as they came to be called, found themselves unpopular after Iraq. This brought in a more liberal anti-military administration. Conservatives across the country couldn't stand that, so they went back to what they were doing in the 90's, dreaming up conspiracy theories and forming militias. Two noteable militia groups formed out of the resurgent militia organizations -- one was called the Northwest Alliance formed around many racist groups who wanted to form an isolationist nation in the northwest part of the United States. The other, actually a southern offshoot of the Northwest Alliance, was called the Confederate States of America, or CSA. They formed around many southern racist groups and far ultra right religious groups. They formed when a liberal administration was voted in. Then, the American mood shifted again, and another far right wing group was voted in. The liberals wanted to diplomatically back out of the wars in the middle east. The right wingers wanted to not only carry on, but also extend the war into Iran. When the right wingers got back in, the set up was created for the climatic battle that came in Syria. Meanwhile the economic fortunes of the US went south, as the US's dependence on oil soured every aspect of American life. Average citizens began looking for simple answers to complex issues, and for scapegoats. There were many instances of unrest at home, with anti war protesters fighting pro war forces, often violently, and different ethinic groups fighting each other in the streets through gang activity and even out right riots in many large cities. There were no leaders in Washington dealing with any of these issues realistically. Americans began to look at their elected leaders as a class of plutocrats who thought of nothing but their own careers. 

During the liberal administration, a militia group and the US government got involved in a pitched battle. It was called the Battle of the Merrimeck River in Missouri, close to St. Louis. It ended when the dug in militia members and their families were napalmed, much to the horror of the nation. It was especially bad when the truth came out that the militia had been set up by government forces, and were actually only realistically defending themselves against an illegal raid. The reaction was strongest in Idaho, when a new political party called the Northwest Alliance, strongly alligned with the Aryan Nations, got their governor elected. He promplty started defying the federal government on many issues, but never strongly enough to warrant military intervention. After the battle in Syria, where many Americans lost all confidence in their government, the Governor of Idaho made his move. He declared Idaho an autonomous state, and declared that all legal bonds between his state and the federal government were null and void. He kinda forgot to consult his legislature though. They immediately censured the governor and started impeachement proceedings. However, he countered by declaring them outlaw, and called upon the Idaho national guard to take over the state house. Most of the National guard refused that order. However, the militia groups of the state showed up in large numbers, and attempted to execute the governors orders. As they did, open warfare broke out in Boise and in the mountains between the militias and the Idaho National Guard. The federal government responded by calling on state national guard units to go to the aid of the Idaho National Guard. However, in Idaho, as in all states, the national guard units were weakened terribly, as they were sent to the middle east, and many were destroyed in the battles there. Many National guard units that tried to respond were ambushed on the way by militia units sympathetic to The Idaho governor. They started calling themselves the Northwest Alliance. The violent insurgency spread throughout the northwest and west. In the south, a weaker version of the Northwest Alliance began an insurgency based out of the allegeny mountains. This group, with similar aims, called itself the Confederate States of America, or CSA. 

This was not the only crisis facing the federal government. Due to the obvious misshandling of crises in Washington, many states, mostly conserverative southern states began their old campaign for states rights. A conference of mostly southern governors met, and decided to press for greater autonomy among the states. Among their aims were repeal of the federal income tax in favor of state taxes and a flat tax and a national sales tax, and also for states to have a primacy in determining their own affairs. The met with the president, and due to the state of the weakened federal government, he had no choice but to aquiesce. The northeastern states were totally against this plan thinking this was not good for the nation as a whole. However they were powerless as well. A dual system evolved, where the northeastern and midwestern states were on the old system, and the southeastern states were on the new. Each state could vote to decide afterward. Eerie echoes of the American Civil war of the 1860's were spoken in the halls of congress and in the living rooms of the land. America was trying to regroup and martial her resources. The leaders, if they had been listening and watching, would have known that the nuclear genie was out of the bottle. The leadership was brilliant in its idiocy.

The Northwest alliance proved resiliant, and determined. The Idaho national guard was destroyed. Anybody who opposed the governor was rounded up and shot. He held an absolute dicatorship in the northwest and encouraged other insurgencies all across the US and Canada. The US could not rally any force to defeat them. Even regular US troops were ineffective. Then, it got really dangerous. The Northwesterners got ahold of nuclear weapons. They found themselves in possetion of nuclear silos. America's Nato allies were concerned. Even though it was beleived that World War III had been happening for sometime, so far all out nuclear war had been adverted. The United States Federal government seemed unable to avert this crisis, so the painful call went out for her Nato allies to get involved. By this time, japan, now an active part of nato had a growing effective navy. She sent a submarine to monitor the Northwest alliance, and assist if needed. The Northwest alliance had aquired many weapons, including a small air force and missiles. The world was shocked when the japanese sub was sunk with loss of all life aboard. Nato began pressing the US government for them to be allowed to come into the Midwest and west to secure the nuclear arsenal. Many in Washington argued that it was treason to allow any foreign nation to step on American soil. They didn't have any time though to argue this.

No one knows who exploded the device, or what the device actually was. Was it Middle eastern terrorists? Or was it the domestic ones? It doesn't matter. The federal government, already weakened and struggling to get back on its feet, was beheaded, when a low yeild nuclear device went off in the national mall. The government was not prepared and the timing couldn't be worse. As all congressmen and other leaders in washington were meeting to discuss the Nato plan, the bomb went off, killing not only them, but the executive branch of the government all the way down to the secretary of education, who was a woman suffering from cancer, and was away in California for treatment. She was the new President of the United States. She flew back immediately to the new temporary capitol. After a couple of days, when it was apparent that she was not up to the task, the next unthinkable thing happened -- a military coup. 

Martial law was declared. The states in the northeast protested, and asked for help from Canada. Nato waited no longer, and came into the United States and took over all the nuclear sites. It was found that the northwest alliance didn't have the capabiltity of launching any nuclear missiles and the sites that they held were obsolete and incapable of military use. In the meantime, the southwestern states with a new immigrant majority made of mostly of mexican expatriots held a vote. It became known as the Mexican Plebiscite. Feeling that the federal government was basically gone, and that anarchy was taking over the US, it would be better to cast their fortunes with the Federal Republic of Mexico. it was not outright succession, but rather an opening of the border with people in the southwest sharing dual citizenship with mexico. However, many in the new anglo minority began fighting an insurgency -- a race war of sorts began in the southwest. 

A radical right wing group was in power in Texas, feeling that the states rights were not enough. They saw the deterioration of the US as a sign, and when they were in danger of losing their state to the plebiscite, they decided to become the lone star nation. Texas succeeded from the Union, the first such state to really formally do so. They were followed by Oklahoma, Arkansas, Western Louisanna, southern Kansas and southwestern Missouri. Forces were sent west to fight the Mexicans. Ethnic cleansing began in parts of Texas.

In an effort to ease the transition and appeal to those states under Nato control, the government of Canada offered the benefits of Canadian law. There were many takers as the canadian system had long appealed to many americans. Noteably the Northeastern states went for it as did the far northwest pacific regions down to San Francisco. The Northwest Alliance was now being demolished in the midwest and focused their anger southward. They even threatened to nuke San Francisco, but their threats were empty. Mainly they raided south into the plebiscite attempting to "cleanse" any "non-white". As a military force they were pretty well contained to a small area around Boise and the mountains. 

The next region to formally succeed from the Union, was Utah. Seeing all this as a sign of the second coming, radical mormons took over the capitol and declared the autonomous state of deseret. They fought mostly defensive battles against insurgents. 

The Republic of Texas and the United States fought skirmishes, but never really outright war. However, the Texans fought the Nato forces in Missouri, Illinois, Kansas and other parts of the midwest. A terrible battle erupted in St. Louis, leaving that city and much of the area around it in ruins. On the western side of the state, they took a page from history declaring themselves nuetral. People euphemistically referred to the kansas City Metropolitan area as "Kingdom City." Nominally, they are a part of the United States, but actually they are autonomous -- hence the initials, (SAZ) or Semi-autonomous Zone. Their position in the heart of the midwest and as a nuetral transportation center made them the switzerland of the midwest. Many kansas citians became rich off the trade flowing through their city.


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## dabong1

I have changed a bit of the wording from the article to make it a more realistic scenario.
A image of the map to go with the article is below.
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=236674823&size=o

If someone can post the map it would be helpful as i have tried and failed....misreably


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## dabong1

keysersoze said:


> I have to ask.......
> 
> What the hell is with the "second american civil war" nonsense? and what the hell does it have to do with the topic?




Sorry i thought i had posted the article about second american civil war but i had not.I have now posted it.
"what the hell does it have to do with the topic".The bit about redrawing borders i thought it would be intresting to see what would happin if the same concept was used on america.


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## [R]e[b]e[L]

Pakistan should use every single nuclear-bomb/missile/plane/fighter/ship against any country/s that try to reshape it, especially america. It is actually america that should be reshaped. The so called united states must be separated so that there is no double standards as we have seen. I suppose washington is used to interacting with pakistanis such as musharraf and not mainstream pakistanis. Its high time either musharraf stand up or get out of the way for someone else who will!


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## Srirangan

[R]e[b]e[L];48939 said:


> Pakistan should use every single nuclear-bomb/missile/plane/fighter/ship against any country/s that try to reshape it, especially america. It is actually america that should be reshaped. The so called united states must be separated so that there is no double standards as we have seen. I suppose washington is used to interacting with pakistanis such as musharraf and not mainstream pakistanis. Its high time either musharraf stand up or get out of the way for someone else who will!


Hmm .. Musharraf is a mainstream Pakistani .. he runs the country mate.


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## [R]e[b]e[L]

Srirangan said:


> Hmm .. Musharraf is a mainstream Pakistani .. he runs the country mate.



Mainstream coward you mean. He has really made us look like cowards. Why doesnt he speak out/retalliate against things like this? Or other threats, or missiles coming into our territory killing civillians? why?


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## Janbaz

foxhound said:


>



How the hell can they break Balochistan, FATA and NWFP and give them to Afghanistan? 

You think they can survive once they break the Saudi kingdom apart?


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## wanderer

They can only succeed if they divide muslim's. Make Baluchies and any other alienated groups to fight one another. We have corrupt so-called rulers and it would be easy to devide and conquer.

the muslims need to unite under one banner - they need to stop calling each other by different groups. We should accept God's command - He named us muslims and gave us Islam.

Muslims need to awaken up to the long term kuffar plans....we need to strengthen our economies and improve our education (religious & Worldly. 

The anti-muslim forces intend to keep us weak by dividing us. Making us fight one another. Just look at the BLA in Pakistan.


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## EagleEyes

The so called one banner will not work unless a good constitution is made up for it with reserved and decleared powers given.

Middle East map will never change or that of Pakistan. No one can or has a right to change the map, when it comes to Pakistan they will have to go through nuclear weapons and probably same with Iran.

What they really need to divide is India.


----------



## Contrarian

And how do you propose they would do that webby? Suddenly US has found a 'natural ally' in India. And they 'want to turn India into a superpower'. So why would they want to divide us?

And on top of that India is stronger than any of the other countries mentioned. Theyd have to go through much more to enter India rather any of the other countries, which as you said is not possible because of 'nuclear weapons'.


----------



## Janbaz

malaymishra123 said:


> And how do you propose they would do that webby? Suddenly US has found a 'natural ally' in India. And they 'want to turn India into a superpower'. So why would they want to divide us?



You are forgetting, the US is no one's natural ally except for Israel and UK. It would be a balant mistake if you guys treat them as your buddies. We pakistani's have the most experience with the US and it's natural passion of desertion. Only time will prove that the US is a friend of none and only means business with all!


----------



## Janbaz

malaymishra123 said:


> And on top of that India is stronger than any of the other countries mentioned. Theyd have to go through much more to enter India rather any of the other countries, which as you said is not possible because of 'nuclear weapons'.



You fellows might have an extra punch to your military arm but watch if they do anything against Saudi Arabia. You really think they will be able survive that day? Over a billion followers that pray towards the sacred city of Mecca will turn against them and afterwards they will not only be fighting Muslims, Allah's house the Kaaba (God Forbid) if ever atacked is bound to recieve protection at all costs.:GUNS: :army:


----------



## Contrarian

Oh we KNOW mate. Trust me, I know that US is a fickle friend, To trust her would be the biggest folly. They serve their interests first, and then leave. I know full well, they are supporting us to stop China, as they supported Pakistan to stop Communism in India from spreading and Soviet Union from expanding in Afghanistan.

The day we become big and powerfull enough to show that we might challenge their superiority they would turn against us, as they have done in case of China. 

However my post was just that it is illogical for US to even dream of troubling India right now as every major country is wooing us with all their might.


----------



## Contrarian

Lol, Allah wont come there to protect S.Arabia when the bombs drop. Its their military that would, and i pray tis strong enough. 

You say over a billion followers all around the globe that pray towards Mecca would turn against them? Well, if they attack India, over a Billion people LIVING in India would turn against US. LOL, Iraq would be something not worth mentioning in that case. Like i said, with or without nukes, our military is good enough.


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## Janbaz

malaymishra123 said:


> Lol, Allah wont come there to protect S.Arabia when the bombs drop. Its their military that would, and i pray tis strong enough.



I meant the Kaaba not Saudi Arabia. Sorry. I know what sort of people govern the kingdom and their ideologies.


----------



## Janbaz

malaymishra123 said:


> Like i said, with or without nukes, our military is good enough.



I would say with nukes! You guys would only dominate with the tactics in Iraq and Afghanistan. Conventionally, the U.S.A is a beast! Tomahawks', F-22's, EAG-18 Prowlers etc. it's tough for anyone to challange them! India is a growing power i reckon but the American's massive capabilities are in any scenario hard to match without the utilization of ones WMD assets. Just my two cents!


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## Contrarian

And i completely agree, but lets just say it wont be as easy as it has been in the past with Middle East nations.* With or without nukes*.



*-Edited


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## Janbaz

malaymishra123 said:


> And i completely agree, but lets just say it wont be as easy as it has been in the past with Middle East nations.



Agreed at the spot!


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## EagleEyes

malaymishra123 said:


> And how do you propose they would do that webby? Suddenly US has found a 'natural ally' in India. And they 'want to turn India into a superpower'. So why would they want to divide us?
> 
> And on top of that India is stronger than any of the other countries mentioned. Theyd have to go through much more to enter India rather any of the other countries, which as you said is not possible because of 'nuclear weapons'.



What i wanted to prove has been proven by your post. Breaking Pakistan or India is impossible.


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## Goodperson

India has been divided once and Pakistan once


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## kidwaibhai

Goodperson said:


> India has been divided once and Pakistan once



Nice, but breaking pakistan and india would be massivelly difficult both of these nations have battle hardened armies and also our population is not that divided BLA is small bunch of freaks and they havnt acted in a while the army is working over time to disarm and extermenate these freaks. As long as Saudia goes i dont think that this is possible because last time i heard pakistan and KSA has a Tasit agreement in which KSA would provide funds for pakistans nuclear program and pakistan would defend it in case of war, last time i checked pakistan had 15000 troops in the KSA.


----------



## KashifAsrar

Aik hon MUSLIM, HARAM ki paasbaani k liyeiy
Neel k saahil say lay kar, ta ba khaak-e-kaashghar

This is the only solution to the proposed division. If we do not understand it, then we deserve a division as proposed.
Kashif


----------



## khanbhai

Srirangan said:


> From: http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899/



iam a phatan and iam very happy in pakistan no way we want to be with afganistan

i was born in karachi my father side is from NWFP and my mom is from india UP
but she is phatan as well


----------



## Srirangan

khanbhai said:


> iam a phatan and iam very happy in pakistan no way we want to be with afganistan
> 
> i was born in karachi my father side is from NWFP and my mom is from india UP
> but she is phatan as well


k dude.. to each his own.. i'm not trying to preach to you, i just posted an article from AFJ (I didnt write it!!)


----------



## solid snake

This is the most hilarious article I've read in a long time


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## thorosius

This is not a joke. Pours out from their mouths what is hidden in their hearts. They want this to happen and I am sure that they are working to achieve this!

We brush aside labeling as funny, things that we should consider very very seriously.


----------



## kidwaibhai

thorosius said:


> This is not a joke. Pours out from their mouths what is hidden in their hearts. They want this to happen and I am sure that they are working to achieve this!
> 
> We brush aside labeling as funny, things that we should consider very very seriously.



i think budy you are over reacting just a little bit. please give your fellow country men a little credit were you not there at the time of the earthquake. those days should me that whatever may happen we are strong will remain strong for till the sun rises from the west and sets in the east.


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## EagleEyes

kidwaibhai said:


> i think budy you are over reacting just a little bit. please give your fellow country men a little credit were you not there at the time of the earthquake. those days should me that whatever may happen we are strong will remain strong for till the sun rises from the west and sets in the east.



What you talking about mate?


----------



## Always Neutral

The only maps which need to be re-drawn are maps which economically benefit the muslim world and their neighbours. It took EU 50 years and may take the muslim world sometime but will benefit all.


----------



## MOSABJA

1)The biggest interest is is PAKISTAN.US and ISRAEL want to DESTROY the
only IDEOLOGICAL COUNTRY CREATED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM WITH NUKES.As 
israels first PM ben gurion said "We must destroy Pakistan by all disguised and
secret plans."

2) Second interest is in Afghanistan .US wants to secure a trade route 
from CENT ASIA to AFGHANISTA to PAKISTAN.For this purpose it has to
CRUSH Afghan resistans and the Taliban.A big problem they are facing is
that MORE THAN HALF OF PASHTUNS in pakistan are supporting the Taliban
and US cant do any thing with it .As they are under the NUCLEAR UMBRELLA
of pakistan.Pakistan ARMY itself is unable to control TALIBAN because
of INTERNAL SYMPATHIES and UNWILLINGNESS in ARMY RANKS.So US wants to
Separate the HALF OF PATHANS from NUCLEAR UMBRELLA of pakistan and then
CRUSH THEM AND ETHNICALLY CLEANSE THEM.

3) third is the interests in BALOCHISTAN.US wants to secure a trade route
for OIL and GAS IN CASPIAN which comes through GWADAR.It also want to
DEFEAT CHINA STRATEGICALLY by taking away trade supposed from them.
MORE OVER US wants a FRIENDLY and SECULAR BALOCHISTAN to get a share
in the NATURAL RESOURCES.PAKISTAN lies on three GEO PLATES INDIAN,
ARABIAN and EURASSIAN.Place where plates collides are eXtremely rich in
natural resources.PAKISTAN has UNEXPLOITED ESTIMATED off shore,onshorepotential of 
27 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL,250 TRILLION CUBIC FEET GAS,FOURHT LARGEST
COAL RESERVES,UNPRECEDENTED HIGH LEVELS OF URANIUM AND GOLD.
When US saw CHINA growing up and INVESTING to exploit the resources
the ALARM BELLS rang and FREE BALOCHISTAN was on CARDS.

4)Other interest is in SAUDI ARABIA .The problem they face is that
SAUDI ARABIA is CUSTODIAN of HOLY CITES and also OIL RICH.US cannot
occupy OIL of SAUDI ARABIA unless it separated HOLY CITES from it.
Because right now if Saudi Arabia is attacked it would trigger WW3
So it would be a good Idea to seperate a SACRED MUSLIM STATE
out of Saudi ARABIA.

5) They also want friendly secular GREATER JORDAN(under ABDULLAH) 
occupying OIL RICH AREAS in MIDEAST and PROTECTING ISRAEL stopping
flow of WEAPONS to HAMAS and PLO.

6) Also not that the ARAB SHIA STATE is in SOUTH OF IRAQ which is the 
most OIL RICH area .So they wany a SECULAR SHIA POLICE STATE in south
of iraq safeguarding their interest.ALSO NOTE the shia state will have
acces to WARM WATERS .PLUS the ARAB SUNNI IRAQ and SAUDI ARABIA will
be TOTALLY DEPENDANT on this SHIA STATE for TRADING THROUGH PORTS.
THUS MAKING SUNNIS A SLAVE OF SHIAS.

7) GREATER SHIA AZERBIJAN will also help to CONTAIN RUSSIA and get a
foot hold in CASPIAN.

8) GREATER YEMEN WIll SAFEGUARD the most important TRADING ROUTE
between EAST and WEST.

9)GREATER KURDISTAN occupies a place in TURKEY from whcih TETHYAN Geographic
Magnamatic arc originates.This geographic arc travels to Iran and then
to Pakistan .This arc is known to be extremely rich in GOLD specially
from the place where it originated i.e TURKEY.TURKEY has recently started
exploring it.REMEMBER A SIGN OF QIYAMAH
Abu Hurayrah said,

The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam said, The Hour will not come before the Euphrates uncovers a mountain of gold, for which people will fight. 99 out of 100 will die, but everyone among them will say that perhaps he will be the one who will survive.

(Sahih Muslim, Book 41, No. 6918)


----------



## salman nedian

Salim said:


> The MQM and the Mohajirs won't be too happy with the way it has been distributed.



Yes,b/c as a Muhajir I can say that we will defend our Motherland till the last drop of our blood.


----------



## mujahideen

salman nedian said:


> Yes,b/c as a Muhajir I can say that we will defend our Motherland till the last drop of our blood.



Yes I completely agree with you. Being a Muhajir also I and everyone of us will indeed defend Pakistan till the last drop of our blood. But honestly I really dont like to use words which are ethnically related like Punjabi, Muhajir, Sindh or any other race. We are all Pakistanis. Pakistan was made for all of us no one ethnicity will defend Pakistan, all who live in Pakistan will defend it, regardless of ethnicity.


----------



## ejaz007

Mr. Ralph Peter wrote this article some time ago on armed forces journal. He has quite a unique imagination and has come up with this map. I dont know if he is part of US government funded policy to bring forward these so called intellectuals to propose things, which the government wishes to accomplish one way or the other. Though not worth considering however one should not be stupid enough just to ignore them and wake up when its too late.
Every Pakistani regardless of religion, race or cast will defend Pakistan. Mr. Salims remarks are most stupid and show the kind of intellect he has.


----------



## H2O3C4Nitrogen

I think the US's map should be redrawn which shouldbe devided in four states1
1.BLACK AMERICA FOR NEGROS(nigers)
2. JEW AMERICA
3. RED INDIAN AMERICA
4. STATE OF COWBOYS


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## yarmook

why dont they cut india on ethnice basis carving tamil state out of south india and northern srilanka why dont they carve out state of begal joining east indian bengal with bangladesh

they are full of r a t - s h i t thats it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## asaad-ul-islam

vish said:


> Well they cut India once.. and look what formed. We learn from history.


india was never "cut", it's time to hit the books on history!


----------



## Always Neutral

MOSABJA said:


> 1)The biggest interest is is PAKISTAN.US and ISRAEL want to DESTROY the
> only IDEOLOGICAL COUNTRY CREATED IN THE NAME OF ISLAM WITH NUKES.As
> israels first PM ben gurion said "We must destroy Pakistan by all disguised and
> secret plans."
> 
> 2) Second interest is in Afghanistan .US wants to secure a trade route
> from CENT ASIA to AFGHANISTA to PAKISTAN.For this purpose it has to
> CRUSH Afghan resistans and the Taliban.A big problem they are facing is
> that MORE THAN HALF OF PASHTUNS in pakistan are supporting the Taliban
> and US cant do any thing with it .As they are under the NUCLEAR UMBRELLA
> of pakistan.Pakistan ARMY itself is unable to control TALIBAN because
> of INTERNAL SYMPATHIES and UNWILLINGNESS in ARMY RANKS.So US wants to
> Separate the HALF OF PATHANS from NUCLEAR UMBRELLA of pakistan and then
> CRUSH THEM AND ETHNICALLY CLEANSE THEM.
> 
> 3) third is the interests in BALOCHISTAN.US wants to secure a trade route
> for OIL and GAS IN CASPIAN which comes through GWADAR.It also want to
> DEFEAT CHINA STRATEGICALLY by taking away trade supposed from them.
> MORE OVER US wants a FRIENDLY and SECULAR BALOCHISTAN to get a share
> in the NATURAL RESOURCES.PAKISTAN lies on three GEO PLATES INDIAN,
> ARABIAN and EURASSIAN.Place where plates collides are eXtremely rich in
> natural resources.PAKISTAN has UNEXPLOITED ESTIMATED off shore,onshorepotential of
> 27 BILLION BARRELS OF OIL,250 TRILLION CUBIC FEET GAS,FOURHT LARGEST
> COAL RESERVES,UNPRECEDENTED HIGH LEVELS OF URANIUM AND GOLD.
> When US saw CHINA growing up and INVESTING to exploit the resources
> the ALARM BELLS rang and FREE BALOCHISTAN was on CARDS.
> 
> 4)Other interest is in SAUDI ARABIA .The problem they face is that
> SAUDI ARABIA is CUSTODIAN of HOLY CITES and also OIL RICH.US cannot
> occupy OIL of SAUDI ARABIA unless it separated HOLY CITES from it.
> Because right now if Saudi Arabia is attacked it would trigger WW3
> So it would be a good Idea to seperate a SACRED MUSLIM STATE
> out of Saudi ARABIA.
> 
> 5) They also want friendly secular GREATER JORDAN(under ABDULLAH)
> occupying OIL RICH AREAS in MIDEAST and PROTECTING ISRAEL stopping
> flow of WEAPONS to HAMAS and PLO.
> 
> 6) Also not that the ARAB SHIA STATE is in SOUTH OF IRAQ which is the
> most OIL RICH area .So they wany a SECULAR SHIA POLICE STATE in south
> of iraq safeguarding their interest.ALSO NOTE the shia state will have
> acces to WARM WATERS .PLUS the ARAB SUNNI IRAQ and SAUDI ARABIA will
> be TOTALLY DEPENDANT on this SHIA STATE for TRADING THROUGH PORTS.
> THUS MAKING SUNNIS A SLAVE OF SHIAS.
> 
> 7) GREATER SHIA AZERBIJAN will also help to CONTAIN RUSSIA and get a
> foot hold in CASPIAN.
> 
> 8) GREATER YEMEN WIll SAFEGUARD the most important TRADING ROUTE
> between EAST and WEST.
> 
> 9)GREATER KURDISTAN occupies a place in TURKEY from whcih TETHYAN Geographic
> Magnamatic arc originates.This geographic arc travels to Iran and then
> to Pakistan .This arc is known to be extremely rich in GOLD specially
> from the place where it originated i.e TURKEY.TURKEY has recently started
> exploring it.REMEMBER A SIGN OF QIYAMAH
> Abu Hurayrah said,
> 
> The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam said, The Hour will not come before the Euphrates uncovers a mountain of gold, for which people will fight. 99 out of 100 will die, but everyone among them will say that perhaps he will be the one who will survive.
> 
> (Sahih Muslim, Book 41, No. 6918)



You actually took time to write this gospel ? By your post it seems USA is working more for the ummah by creating greater Yemen, Jordan Etc, Liberating Mecca from the Saudis etc than muslims themselves.

If anything goes wrong with Pakistan it will be due to its own short sighted policies and lack of muslim brotherhood not the USA. Gen M showed his fellow Pakistanis how dangerously close Pakistan came to be attacked by the US by allowing your kind misplaced mumbo jumbo to flourish in pakistan un- punished.

Before uniting the muslims of the world please work and strive to make Pakistan a better place.

Regards


----------



## vish

Well I'm sorry for my offensive post... its just that the previous post irked me a lot. With regard to the division of British India into India and Pakistan, I believe it should not have happened. I have nothing against Muslims or Pakistanis; its just that Partition led to increased Hindu-Muslim polarity in the subcontinent, something which resulted in four wars and almost perpetual animosity. Divisions on the basis of race, color, religion should be discouraged. If the subcontinent would have never been partitioned, things might have been radically different. Primarily, Muslims would not be a minority to an extent they are now.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

yarmook said:


> why dont they cut india on ethnice basis carving tamil state out of south india and northern srilanka why dont they carve out state of begal joining east indian bengal with bangladesh
> 
> they are full of r a t - s h i t thats it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



*Yarmook - Please mind the language.*


----------



## distruttore di sionisti

I think we ought to look at the bigger picture..as many people have suggested that it is a neo con idea..we should also understand the fact that in matters where it concerns the Muslim world...the driving force behind every idea are the Zionists. The Bigger picture is i believe of the Zionists is not to destroy or fight the Muslim states using America however use the muslim nations to destroy America. Even though this seems the most crazy idea there is ...but to truly understand this idea you have understand the ideology of the Zionists. Their belief is that they are the 'chosen' people and are supposed to rule on all other non Jews. It would be interesting to note that if indeed this is what the Jews want why would they let survive a Christian superpower,when it is they whose ideas to the force of communism.


----------



## Kasrkin

vish said:


> Well I'm sorry for my offensive post... its just that the previous post irked me a lot. With regard to the division of British India into India and Pakistan, I believe it should not have happened. I have nothing against Muslims or Pakistanis; its just that Partition led to increased Hindu-Muslim polarity in the subcontinent, something which resulted in four wars and almost perpetual animosity. Divisions on the basis of race, color, religion should be discouraged. If the subcontinent would have never been partitioned, things might have been radically different. Primarily, Muslims would not be a minority to an extent they are now.



Or more likely there would have been even further, more protracted, more bitter and more brutal civil war that would have lead to the death of many many more people than in conventional armed conflict which would in any case lead to the ripping off of the sub-continent into what is now Pakistan and maybe more of what is now India.

Look the areas that are now Pakistan are not like India, they were never meant to be ruled by India. Look at the tribal areas, you think we are having a tough time? Imagine how Hindu rulers and Hindu soldiers would fare? Balochistan, Punjab....all these areas where tribe and religion are the biggest factors. What makes you think you Indians could have managed it? Even the British had an almost impossible time of it... we Pakistanis are having an tough time of it, and our nation is made on the basis of the religion of these tribesmen! 

And you think all these problems would go away under the yoke of Hindu rule? I know how well politically and economicly and socialy Indian Muslims are doing, even now after 60 years. And not a day goes by that I dont thank God that he gave me Pakistan.

You have the right to express your views ofcourse, but I have the right to express the fact that your view is ill-advised and nothing but unrealistic self-aggrandizement. Maybe you should worry about the poor muslims who are already there in India instead of asking us to join them as well.

Perhaps this will help explain why we Pakistanis love Pakistan so much:
Indian Muslims' gradual alienation - Jane's Country Risk News


----------



## Kharian_Beast

MOSABJA said:


> 1)The biggest interest is is PAKISTAN.US and
> 
> The Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam said, The Hour will not come before the Euphrates uncovers a mountain of gold, for which people will fight. 99 out of 100 will die, but everyone among them will say that perhaps he will be the one who will survive.
> 
> (Sahih Muslim, Book 41, No. 6918)



99 out of 100 people that fight for the gold will die, point is don't fight for it and you should be fine. If somebody wants to steal that gold they should consider this verse a dire warning.


----------



## AlpErTunga

Maps can't be redrawn without adding blood to its ink... So this is just an insult and belongs to its owner only.


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## Jliu

AlpErTunga said:


> Maps can't be redrawn without adding blood to its ink... So this is just an insult and belongs to its owner only.



In retrospect it would have been an excellent plan *in the context of the article*-but totally unfeasible in the current environment.

Purely academic discourse but relevant as the majority of conflicts are over resources and this map goes a long way (with the possible exception of Pakistan) in resolving such issues. For example in your country's context what on this map appears as "Kurdistan" incorporates a section of what is now Eastern Turkey and formerly known pre-1923 as the Western Part of Armenia- a product of tension over land and identity.


----------



## thorosius

vish said:


> Well I'm sorry for my offensive post... its just that the previous post irked me a lot. With regard to the division of British India into India and Pakistan, I believe it should not have happened. I have nothing against Muslims or Pakistanis; its just that Partition led to increased Hindu-Muslim polarity in the subcontinent, something which resulted in four wars and almost perpetual animosity. Divisions on the basis of race, color, religion should be discouraged. If the subcontinent would have never been partitioned, things might have been radically different. Primarily, Muslims would not be a minority to an extent they are now.



That was tried before even Allama Iqbal (RA) tried that. But hindu bannia can never accept Muslims as its equal. Hindus have have been slaves for centuries. They dream of being masters now. Allah ka lakh lakh shukkar ha we got this country!


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## Kasrkin

Muslims are some of the poorest, most under-represented people in India. And 1/3 of the worlds poor are Indians, almost 1/2 Indians live below the International poverty line as compared to 1/4 people in Pakistan. So thanks but no thanks, I think we Muslims are MUCH better off here.


----------



## PeaceForAll

^^ buddy.. pls mind what you say... relax pls


----------



## Iranium-235

i think there should be one big islamic state


----------



## burper

i think pakistani's are confused. that's just what i think. you oppose islamic fundamentalism like the one of the taliban but whenever there's corruption or poverty or something else you advocate more ISLAMIZATION as a possible solution. i think you guys are in a war with yourselves. maybe someone will delete this comment i don't know. but thats how it looks from where i stand.


----------



## Black Stone

By looking at the map, I can see parts of the Pakistani pie being cut. I don't think Pakistan would be happy with this.


----------



## AgNoStiC MuSliM

burper said:


> i think pakistani's are confused. that's just what i think. you oppose islamic fundamentalism like the one of the taliban but whenever there's corruption or poverty or something else you advocate more ISLAMIZATION as a possible solution. i think you guys are in a war with yourselves. maybe someone will delete this comment i don't know. but thats how it looks from where i stand.



Islamization does not necessarily equal Talibanization, or even the Saudi or Iranian systems.

The fact that I could describe three distinctly different systems with the same term should give you an idea of why your premise is utterly wrong.

I'd suggest thinking a little deeper, because right now you are the one coming across as 'confused', or worse, lacking any insight into the subject altogether.


----------



## Kasrkin

Its kinda of surprising that Indians have such a primitive understanding about the different strands of Islamic ideology, especially given the fact that they are so close to Pakistan and claim to be so deeply troubled by "Political Islam and Terrorism".


----------



## digitaltiger

RAPTOR said:


> I wonder what the future map of bharat/hindustan will look like. I can see at least 30 different princely states being carved out of that artificial and unatural country.



Rapor ... sorry to wake u up dude,, 

India is too big and strong to break apart where as Pak is prone to break,, Hope you are young enough to see that happen before u die.


----------



## Vinod2070

Kasrkin said:


> Its kinda of surprising that Indians have such a primitive understanding about the different strands of Islamic ideology, especially given the fact that they are so close to Pakistan and claim to be so deeply troubled by "Political Islam and Terrorism".



Actually its a complicated topic and any understanding is always clouded by the current geo-political happenings.

But I think this knowledge (little it may be) is still better than what you guys have of other kaafir cultures and religions, which you guys never see the need to understand and respect which you universally demand of others.

You guys are so full of yourself. Its amazing really. 

Too cocksure, I think it hides some insecurities to even dare to look the truth in the eye.


----------



## T-Rex

Vinod2070 said:


> Delusions and more delusions.
> 
> India Muslims are more represented than Pakistani Muslims, they didn't suffer military rule for 60&#37; of their time. I say don't worry about them, worry about things nearer home more. They are far more interesting as of now.
> 
> Pakistan is as poor if not poorer. You are lower in HDI, have been since decades and not improving your rank.
> 
> You may be better "here" but don't feel compelled to justify that by comparing with "there" every time.




The Indian Muslims must be in better condition, they are being shipped straight to heaven for choosing to remain in India. It's just that according to the Hindu belief they are being burnt before being sent to heaven. I don't understand why the Pakistani Muslims are so stupid not to realise this simple fact.


----------



## ju87

T-Rex said:


> The Indian Muslims must be in better condition, they are being shipped straight to heaven for choosing to remain in India. It's just that according to the Hindu belief they are being burnt before being sent to heaven. I don't understand why the Pakistani Muslims are so stupid not to realise this simple fact.





If you mean Muslims in India are being cremated, rest assured they are not. There's kabristans in all major cities. 

If you're talking about the Gujarat violence, Hindus incidentally were burned to death by Muslims, not the other way round.


----------



## Flintlock

Kasrkin said:


> Its kinda of surprising that Indians have such a primitive understanding about the different strands of Islamic ideology, especially given the fact that they are so close to Pakistan and claim to be so deeply troubled by "Political Islam and Terrorism".



When self-confessed Islamists start to shoot and blow up things randomly, the subtle differences are not that important.


----------



## Awesome

Cut out the flames!


----------



## T-Rex

ju87 said:


> If you mean Muslims in India are being cremated, rest assured they are not. There's kabristans in all major cities.
> 
> If you're talking about the Gujarat violence, Hindus incidentally were burned to death by Muslims, not the other way round.



It took you two months to cook this, congratulations !


----------



## Vinod2070

Let's get back to topic now.

It's not about India and Bangladesh but about the "greater Middle East".


----------



## ju87

T-Rex said:


> It took you two months to cook this, congratulations !



I found this forum in December, brightspark.


----------



## asq

We may call them neo-cons or whatever, world will do you in if you don't show some metal and some courage conviction to yourself and lots of intelligence.

these mape are put out by those who like us to fail and are failing by our own foolish move not by others.

For example, about Indian involvement i n our areas, why we don't yell oh sorry tell the whole world.

why our leaders have no negotiation skills as i see it all the time. in case of Simla pact, in case of Tashkent pact in case of Cargil withdrawal, in case of now of Gaza, as I see Abbas has failed miserable and it is after so many sacrifices by Palestinians, all he has to listen to this lady and let her speak in u.n. on his behalf.

The Real News Network - Historical amnesia and Gaza


----------



## Omar1984

Its obvious someone worked really hard on this map. No one should take it lightly.

BTW, I didn't know Afghanistan also wants to join in the Kashmir dispute


----------



## niaz

My observation is that there is unbroken area of Muslim countries stretching from Mauritania on the Atlantic Ocean on the west to Uzbekistan in the East and Pakistan in the south. In addition we have four Muslim majority countries in the South East; Bangla Desh, Malaysia. Indonesia & Brunei and three; Niger, Nigeria & Somalia in Africa

To make it simple, let us divide the area into Arab lands (Mauritania until Iraq) and non Arab lands which comprise Muslim countries situated north of Euphrates and West of Tigris in Asia and South of Sahara in Africa.

All Arab countries speak the same language and have a common culture quite distinct from non Arabs. All other countries, despite having common religion are different from one another in more ways than one.

We have Arab League to look after the interest of the Arabs. Despite being overwhelmingly Muslim, Arab League has a secular constitution. 

Let us ignore past history, when Arab Muslims sided with kaffir English and threw out fellow Muslim ottoman Turks. In the very recent past we have seen Arab Sunni Muslim Saddam Hussein of Iraq, trying to gobble up oil rich fellow Sunni Muslim Kuwait. Also Sunni Muslim Saudi Arabia calling the help of the infidel US's to liberate Kuwait and actively participated in the eliminaton of Saddam. When even Arabs cant seem to unite despite deliberate effort, what can be expected of the others?

Long and short of this is that whatever Muslim think tanks dream up on paper, ground reality is quite different. Muslim world is rife with ethnic and sectarian rivalries. What Taliban did to Hazara Shias in Afghanistan and sectarian conflict in Pakistan is ample proof that Muslim unity is nothing but a pipe dream. 

In UAE (historic friend of Pakistan) there are lot more Indians than Pakistanis. There are twenty four countries whose pass port holders are allowed to come to UAE without visa, the same is granted on arrival. The list does not include Pakistan, Indonesia, Malayasa or Iran but includes USA, Canada, most West European countries, South Africa, Australia and Japan. So much for the Muslim Ummah!.

Muslims prefer to kill each other rather than fighting the non Muslims. Will there ever be a united Muslim Ummah? I dont believe so. Dream on Think Tanks.


----------



## wild peace

One has topay for his mistakes,like in GHAZVA OHAD,muslims made mistake and they got hurt.As a muslim we made alot of mistakes so to take honour back we have to pay alot.

Redrawing of the map is not a new issue it is an old one but (ALLAH SAYS IN QURAN:They are making their plans & ALLAH has His own &Allah is best planer)every time they stuck with some hurdles.


----------



## wild peace

T-Rex said:


> The Indian Muslims must be in better condition, they are being shipped straight to heaven for choosing to remain in India. It's just that according to the Hindu belief they are being burnt before being sent to heaven. I don't understand why the Pakistani Muslims are so stupid not to realise this simple fact.



same thing with Pakistan and Bangladesh(we cut each other in and before 1971 who did the mistake damecare but we loose)


----------



## MustyAfghan

I like this map it looks so real to me, this is how a muslim map should look like


----------



## Klare

burper said:


> i think pakistani's are confused. that's just what i think. you oppose islamic fundamentalism like the one of the taliban but whenever there's corruption or poverty or something else you advocate more ISLAMIZATION as a possible solution. i think you guys are in a war with yourselves. maybe someone will delete this comment i don't know. but thats how it looks from where i stand.



Fundamentalism is not a bad phenomenon. Let's say some doctor is following fundamentals of medical profession so he would be a good docter because he is supposed to follow fundamentals of his profession. And if he does not follow fundamentals of medical profession then he would not be a good doctor or some will say that he is even not a doctor.
So the point I am trying to make is that Islamic fundamentalism is not bad.
Taliban are not islamic fundamentalists. They actually want to make a political system which is a mixture of local tribal traditions, may be some percentage of Islam, their very own philosophy of political system.
Islam is a complete solution for political, judicial, economical and social problems. We need the islamic system of Muhammad (PBUH) and khulafa rashdin not Taliban's system.


----------



## Klare

niaz said:


> My observation is that there is unbroken area of Muslim countries stretching from Mauritania on the Atlantic Ocean on the west to Uzbekistan in the East and Pakistan in the south. In addition we have four Muslim majority countries in the South East; Bangla Desh, Malaysia. Indonesia & Brunei and three; Niger, Nigeria & Somalia in Africa
> 
> To make it simple, let us divide the area into Arab lands (Mauritania until Iraq) and non Arab lands which comprise Muslim countries situated north of Euphrates and West of Tigris in Asia and South of Sahara in Africa.
> 
> All Arab countries speak the same language and have a common culture quite distinct from non Arabs. All other countries, despite having common religion are different from one another in more ways than one.
> 
> We have Arab League to look after the interest of the Arabs. Despite being overwhelmingly Muslim, Arab League has a secular constitution.
> 
> Let us ignore past history, when Arab Muslims sided with kaffir English and threw out fellow Muslim ottoman Turks. In the very recent past we have seen Arab Sunni Muslim Saddam Hussein of Iraq, trying to gobble up oil rich fellow Sunni Muslim Kuwait. Also Sunni Muslim Saudi Arabia calling the help of the infidel US's to liberate Kuwait and actively participated in the eliminaton of Saddam. When even Arabs cant seem to unite despite deliberate effort, what can be expected of the others?
> 
> Long and short of this is that whatever Muslim think tanks dream up on paper, ground reality is quite different. Muslim world is rife with ethnic and sectarian rivalries. What Taliban did to Hazara Shias in Afghanistan and sectarian conflict in Pakistan is ample proof that Muslim unity is nothing but a pipe dream.
> 
> In UAE (historic friend of Pakistan) there are lot more Indians than Pakistanis. There are twenty four countries whose pass port holders are allowed to come to UAE without visa, the same is granted on arrival. The list does not include Pakistan, Indonesia, Malayasa or Iran but includes USA, Canada, most West European countries, South Africa, Australia and Japan. So much for the Muslim Ummah!.
> 
> Muslims prefer to kill each other rather than fighting the non Muslims. Will there ever be a united Muslim Ummah? I dont believe so. Dream on Think Tanks.



I am agree that ground realities are very hopeless. But we have to try hard for unity of our Ummah. We can't change our faith because of Arabs or Taliban. God glorify the nation which deserve it. If I prove myself and ask help from Allah then I can expect some change.


----------



## L'Indien

Klare said:


> Fundamentalism is not a bad phenomenon. Let's say some doctor is following fundamentals of medical profession so he would be a good docter because he is supposed to follow fundamentals of his profession. And if he does not follow fundamentals of medical profession then he would not be a good doctor or some will say that he is even not a doctor.
> So the point I am trying to make is that Islamic fundamentalism is not bad.



oooh lalalalaaaa.....mate, unless you were joking, you changed the definition of "fundmentalism"....please consult a dictionary.....lol


----------



## qsaark

L'Indien said:


> oooh lalalalaaaa.....mate, unless you were joking, you changed the definition of "fundmentalism"....please consult a dictionary.....lol


Klares is right. There is a big difference between a fundamentalist and an extremist. Anybody who follows the basics or the fundamentals of his religion is a fundamentalist but a person who goes to the extremes is a different species. 

The word 'fundamentalism' was derived from the movements of the protestants in the USA of the early 20th century. But because a word is used to describe their religious philsophy does not mean that the word ONLY means that. Fundamentalist is the one who follow the fundamentals. The use of this term itself is controversial just like the use of the word of terrorist because of the lack of a unanimously agreed definition.

As per Mariam Webster dictionary: 

1 a. _often capitalized_ : *a* movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching *b*: the beliefs of this movement *c*: adherence to such beliefs
2: *a*. movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles 

And I'll suggest you to avoid using sentences like "....please consult a dictionary.....lol", people could be more educated and wise than you think they are. Try to maintain civility in your posts; otherwise you may be weeded out like many before you.


----------



## L'Indien

qsaark said:


> Klares is right. There is a big difference between a fundamentalist and an extremist. Anybody who follows the basics or the fundamentals of his religion is a fundamentalist but a person who goes to the extremes is a different species.



... but did I even mention the word extremist? Did I mention that fundamentalist and extremist are same?...NO...
So please dont cook up stuff....



qsaark said:


> Fundamentalist is the one who follow the fundamentals.



A highly simplistic way to define things. According to the the definition that you quoted from Mariam Webster dictionary the definition of fundamentalism is:



qsaark said:


> 2: *a*. movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles



"strict and *literal* adherence to a set of basic principles" pretty much defines fundamentalism. If anyone compares religious fundamentalism to a doctor following the scientific procedures and guidelines , then I cant help but laugh, even if that offends you!!

a fundamentalist in *any* religion, when confronted with a conflict between love, compassion and caring, and conformity to doctrine, will almost invariably choose the latter regardless of the effect it has on its followers or on the society of which it is a part.

It is this overwhelming seriousness about religion that is one of the hallmarks of the fundamentalist. He is concerned not only with his own conformity to doctrine, but the conformity of the rest of society to it, too. Many fundamentalists will not hesitate to intervene in the political process to ensure that society is forced to conform to the behaviors their world view requires, if not accept that world view. The belief that they are right, without any question, justifies, in their own minds, taking upon themselves the right to impose their point of view, by force if necessary. An example is the attempt, by some Christian fundamentalist groups in Europe and the US, to shut down, by force, abortion clinics that are operating in accordance with the law. Some have gone so far as to threaten and intimidate employees, and even murder doctors working there.

Fundamentalism often justifies hatred in the minds of its adherents. This is undoubtedly the most dangerous aspect of fundamentalism. The idea that God hates the same people you do is particularly gratifying in that it makes the indulgence in hatred not only acceptable, but somehow approved and even encouraged by God. This is seen most clearly in many fundamentalist sects, which routinely justify terrorism and murder as being "God's will." 

I will give you an example. Here in India we have Hindu fundamentalists like the Shiv Sena, VHP etc. These fundamentalists believe that their literal interpretation of Hinduism is correct and should be followed by all Hindus; They try to impose their thinking on the rest of us. So they beat up young couples celebrating Valentines day, beat up girls who go to pubs and bars...etc. A fundamentalist pretends to be deeply religious, but I can show you millions of devout Hindus, who adhere to their religion, but at the same time are open enough to let others co exist peacefully. *Therefore please do not confuse a religious person with a fundamentalist *

A fundamentalist is _*NOT *_ a terrorist, but is *more likely* than a non-fundamentalist to commit a terrorist activity.....just like a Shiv Sainik is more likely to use violence than a beef-eating Hindu like me.

Fundamentalism isn't just restricted to Christianity or Islam, but it is found in every major religion, ranging from Judaism, to Hinduism, to Buddhism, to even Zoroastrianism. 

I suggest you read this.....its from the newspaper Dawn...
Extremism, terrorism and fundamentalism

and this

Why The "Fundamentalist" Approach To Religion Must Be Wrong

*Klare said that "Islamic fundamentalism is not bad", since you jumped so enthusiastically in his defence, I expect you to justify his statement.*



qsaark said:


> And I'll suggest you to avoid using sentences like "....please consult a dictionary.....lol", people could be more educated and wise than you think they are.



Agreed, but even "educated and wise" people need to revisit and reconsider their definition of things. Its called being open minded.



qsaark said:


> Try to maintain civility in your posts; otherwise you may be weeded out like many before you.



I suggest you introduce some civility in your own language before "threatening" me.


----------



## asq

Blimp115 said:


> Indian Muslims are very poor in india because during partition the rich and the middle class(muslims) left for pakistan.they were educated and were wealthy.Only few rich muslims stayed back in india rest could not afford to go and some didnt want to.....you cannot blame the indian state for this!!!



That is not an excuse for the poverty of Indian Muslims, It has to do with the way they were singled out for oppression, read your own GOI reports.


----------



## S-2

Thread necrophilia. Stop this heinous behavior.


----------



## asq

Necrophilia and heinous very strong words used for a thread. i thought we were discussing Maps of Muslim world. and the reason for non Muslims to redistribute Muslim world that fits their agendas.

Agenda of divide and rule.

Litle our enemies know that they can benefit by showing some concerns and present some solutions acceptable to the people of pakistan.

In other words and i quote.`they should try to win hearts and minds of Muslims, and by circulating these derogatory maps, they infact are working against their own rules of non-interferance in other countries affiars and are being concieved as enemies by common man on the ground in these countries.

that is how it will play in the countries this map is showing and if i understand correctly this will allienate Mulims populations further.

I hope and pray that this not the intent and that policy of live and let live will prevail over the policy of insults and counter insults.


----------



## SMIQBAL

WASHINGTON: Muslim circles have expressed alarm and disgust at the publication of a redrawn Muslim world in a journal closely linked to the US armed forces...........................

American has already given a detailed plan to CRS (Congressional Research Services USA) in the name of Transformed World. As per plan "not a single inch of Pakistani soil shall be dis-integrated till 2025. A good news is also available from IAEA that "No unclear devise would be used till 2025 in the world.
SMIQBAL.


----------



## Abhiras

^^^^^^^^
what after 2025??


----------



## ARCHON

> That is not an excuse for the poverty of Indian Muslims, It has to do with the way they were singled out for oppression, read your own GOI reports.




*This is WHY....*


Muslims under 'Muslim-ruled' India long before Independence were divided into three groups economically. One was the family of the ruler or the ruling dynasty members at the top of the pyramid. After that was the group consisting of courtiers, landlords, and jagirdars etc. This second group had most wealth, they had land ownership and other resources. The third group at the bottom is where majority of Muslims were. These were peasants, craftsmen, lower rungs of soldiers. So in other words just because Muslims dynasties were ruling does not mean that all Muslims were prosperous.

They had to work as hard as anyone else. They were not privileged group during the so called Muslim rule of India. Even when people converted to Islam they remained economically were they were, there was no upward mobility. As a result of their conversion they did acquire social mobility because curse of untouchability was lifted. Disabilities arising as being part of Hindu caste system was no longer relevant. But it did not mean an upward economic mobility.

Most of the Muslim members of the elite did not take English education as fast as upper caste Hindus did. As a result, the were left behind in the path of modernization that lead to greater prosperity to the upper caste Hindus. Muslims could not progress because they were reluctant to acquire modern scientific education. Muslims being part of the old nobility wanted all the benefits and the British have no reason to please them. As a result Muslim elites did not accept English education and they were left behind.

After the formation of Pakistan, those who went there initially were top most officials who were in the top most positions of bureaucracy, military and so forth. They thought Pakistan was a land of opportunity. Even then it was not quite sudden, often younger brothers went and older brothers or parents remained behind. So migration was gradual and it was not uniform everywhere. Migration happened mostly in UP, Bihar and obviously Punjab and surrounding areas of Pakistani borders. Bhopal and areas south to that was less affected by migration to Pakistan. Hyderabad was affected after Operation Polo of September 1948. Lot of Bombay businessmen moved because they saw better opportunity in Pakistan because Pakistan did not have much of an industry. So flow of migration was uneven.


India is still a very poor country with fewer opportunity. We have to see that India is poor and Muslims are less educated, therefore Muslims are less able to compete.

There are geographic differences as well. India is not uniform and Muslims in India are not uniform. Most well off Muslims in India are in Tamilnadu comparable to upper caste Hindus. But if you go to the eastern UP and Bihar, then the Muslim condition is comparable to Dalits. So, we have to see India in segments, an all India picture can be very misleading.

With regards to discrimination, yes it exists but it is subtle and hard to establish in courts. But discrimination in of itself does not explain Muslims lower representation.


----------



## sur

Srirangan said:


> ...*Why does Afghanistan get the northern chunk of NA/Kashmir *..



so that China won't get one country to reach seas... China will have to pass thru 2 countries which Neos will be playing against eachother....


----------



## Spring Onion

sur said:


> so that China won't get one country to reach seas... China will have to pass thru 2 countries which Neos will be playing against eachother....



In another such project, they are to choke Chinese and Russian oil supply lines. and in that scheme to Pakistan is to be divided.

Lets see who wins  

Man proposes God disposes as they say


----------



## ARCHON

Should Pakistan be broken up?


The above link has a few interesting observations.. just read and comment..please...


why are not others coming up of map of Us divided into 3-4 parts with 1 going to racist whites, one to blacks and 1 to asians and migrants from mexico.. its after all a good idea ...


----------



## garibnawaz

Srirangan said:


> From: Blood borders - June 2006 - Armed Forces Journal - Military Strategy, Global Defense Strategy



What will be the difference between Iran and Shia Arab State?

GB


----------



## ARCHON

> What will be the difference between Iran and Shia Arab State?
> 
> GB



As an Indian tell me are you "happy" or concerned by this proposed map???


----------



## Hulk

birdofprey said:


> As an Indian tell me are you "happy" or concerned by this proposed map???



Dude let me tell you the fact and I can take bet from anyone in this forum.

I am not denying these kind of things might be discussed, but they remain just that discussion. There is absolutely no truth that someone is trying to implement it, because everyone knows that something of this sort is not possible without WW3.

So this is just a time-pass item and any serious person will not waste time on it. Should be in Joke section.


----------



## sur

WebMaster said:


> ...What they really need to is *divide India*.


Sir, that's coming soon, InshALLAH...

*Muhammad Rusool-ALLAH said:-*
*Na&#8217;im, son of Hammad in al-Fitan, reports that Abu Huraira said
that the Messenger of Allah mentioned India and said: &#8220;A group
of you will conquer India. Allah will open (India) for them until
they come with its kings chained &#8212; Allah having forgiven their
sins &#8212; when they return (from India), they will find the son of
Mary in Syria.&#8221;(Kitab Al Fitan)*
_(This is NOT talking of previous muslim conquests of india, coz they didn't go back to help Eesa(Jesus) in Syria!!!)_


*Then Nostradamus wrote his dreams, around year 1555:-*
The *deep entry*_(indo-pak region)_ made by the great Queen 
will make the place powerful and inaccessible;
the army of the three lions will be defeated_(in indo-pak region)_
causing within a thing hideous and terrible.


(Now indians r hallucinating that their national "symbol" which is 2-D has 4 lions in it, NOT 3... Coz their mind is stuck in 4 lions of Sarnath that was a 3-D structure & 2-D symbol adopted from that 3-D structure shows 3-Lions......) Indian passport ...&... R.A.W all share that 3-Lion photo that Nostradamus saw in his dream...
==========================

*When will that happen???* Around 2nd upcoming solar maximum... InshALLAH... i.e., *2022*... (2011+11=2022)


Last Solar maximum was around the time when Bush was nominated & later US attacked Afghanistan...

Around upcoming solar Maximum they r planing another false-flag... to which Obama alluded in Berlin speech* when he said terrorists trained in Karachi will use fussile material from Russia to attack Paris.... & then Bob Graham predicted they r expecting nuclear attack in US with 5 years... 




Just look at the smug smiles of guys standing on back instead of having fears or concerns on their faces... & they nod heads when Jim says "focus on Pakistan", like it was "the gist" of their address.... Like "focussing on Pak-istan" was more relevant than nuke/bio attack....


& it's around the time when "Mayan Calendar'" says poles will be switched,,, era of tyrrany will end...(as opposed to common misconception that Mayan ppl predicted end-of-time... No they didn't.)


If u guys remember, 6 nuclear cruise missiles took-off *"ACCIDENTLY"* from *Minot Airbase USA* & *ONLY 5 came back* on Barksdale Airbase........ Mainstream media didn't give more than few minutes to this incident, that too very vague & limited information was given... & Following lower-level crew involved in handling those nukes *died in car or bike "accidents"* etc.
1-Todd Blue - Minot AFB(Airforce Base)
2-a married couple from Barksdale Airbase(Names not released)
3-Stephen Garrett - Minot AFB
4-Weston Kissel - Minot AFB
5-John Frueh
6-Jonathan Bayless - Minot AFB 
7-Thomas L. Tinsley - Alleged of breach in following the standards while handling nukes.

This is the stolen nuke "they" plan to explode somewhere & blame it on Pakistan.... that's their plan, but ALLAH also plans & ALLAH is best of planners... I'm hopeful their plan will fail like their plan of USS_Liberty attack failed.
Anyways C.D.C have coffins** & Cement Cribs*** ready to dispose off those bodies...

*
Obama's Berlin speech watch at *minute:8:21 & then at 8:47*:-




**
Coffins:-









***
Massive expansion of cemetery... what r they anticipating???





= = = = = = =
= = = = = = =
= = = = = = =
Not only india,,, western tyrrants r also ready for their "end",,, *in their own words*...

"Prophecy of POPEs" tells us that present pope is *2nd last* (111th)pope & after him will come last (112th) pope(Peter of Rome)..... *LAST pope???!!!* is christianity going to end after that???

There's unconfirmed news that Freemasons have started selling their Lodges in USA...!!! Why?

*Here's what Prophecy of Popes' says about last pope...*
_112 Peter the Roman, who will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the *city of seven hills* will be destroyed, and the *fearsome Judge* will judge His people. The End._

"City of 7 hills" = Italy-Rome._Rome represented"Christianity"during Prophet Muhammad's time & when this prophecy was written_ 
Fearsome judge_(c.f.2nd Hadees Below)_ = Eesa(Jesus)
Peter Romanus = Dajjal!!!???


Sahih Muslim:41:6924:-Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour would not come until the Romans would land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq(border region b/w Syria & Turkey). An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of the people of the earth at that time will come from Medina (to counteract them). When they will arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans would say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight with them; and the Muslims would say: Nay, by Allah, we would never get aside from you and from our brethren that you may fight them. They will then fight and a third (part) of the army would run away, whom Allah will never forgive. A third (part of the army). which would be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eye, would be killed and the third who would never be put to trial would win and they would be conquerors of Constantinople. And as they would be busy in distributing the spoils of war (amongst themselves) after hanging their swords by the olive trees, the Satan would cry: The Dajjal has taken your place among your family. They would then come out, but it would be of no avail. And when they would come to Syria, he would come out while they would be still preparing themselves for battle drawing up the ranks. Certainly, the time of prayer shall come and then Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Mary would descend and would lead them in prayer. When the enemy of Allah would see him, it would (disappear) just as the salt dissolves itself in water and if he (Jesus) were not to confront them at all, even then it would dissolve completely, but Allah would kill them by his hand and he would show them their blood on his lance (the lance of Jesus Christ).


Bukhari:4:55:657: Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the *son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly* _(judge by Quranic law NOT bible; Hadees 658)_; he *will break the Cross* and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol. 7)


compare "will break cross" to another prophecy by christians themselves... "Our Lady of Fatima's" "Third Secret"


----------



## ARCHON

> Muhammad Rusool-ALLAH said:-
> Na&#8217;im, son of Hammad in al-Fitan, reports that Abu Huraira said
> that the Messenger of Allah mentioned India and said: &#8220;A group
> of you will conquer India. Allah will open (India) for them until
> they come with its kings chained &#8212; Allah having forgiven their
> sins &#8212; when they return (from India), they will find the son of
> Mary in Syria.&#8221;(Kitab Al Fitan)
> (This is NOT talking of previous muslim conquests of india, coz they didn't go back to help Eesa(Jesus) in Syria!!!)



India and pakistan came into existence long after this was written. even i want to see indian kings (presumably prime minister and foreign minister chained and send to syria)




> Then Nostradamus wrote his dreams, around year 1555:-
> The deep entry(indo-pak region) made by the great Queen
> will make the place powerful and inaccessible;
> the army of the three lions will be defeated(in indo-pak region)
> causing within a thing hideous and terrible.




i have checked the book its the prediction for 7th century.. we are for ur information in 21 st century AD and not year 1555.


ill give u more of prophecy around it

From the marine tributary city,
the shaven head will take up the satrapy;
to chase the sordid man who will the be against him.
For fourteen years he will hold the tyranny.


He will come to expose the false topography,
the urns of the tombs will be opened.
Sect and holy philosophy to thrive,
black for white and the new for the old.

Before the city of the Insubrian lands,
for seven years the siege will be laid;
a very great king enters it,
the city is then free, away from its enemies.


The deep entry made by the great Queen 
will make the place powerful and inaccessible;
the army of the three lions will be defeated
causing within a thing hideous and terrible.


The prince who has little pity of mercy
will come through death to change (and become) very knowledgeable.
The kingdom will be attended with great tranquillity,
when the great one will soon be fleeced.


The besieged will color their pacts,
but seven days later they will make a cruel exit:
thrown back inside, fire and blood, seven put to the ax
the lady who had woven the peace is a captive.




> "Prophecy of POPEs" tells us that present pope is 2nd last (111th)pope & after him will come last (112th) pope(Peter of Rome)..... LAST pope???!!! is christianity going to end after that???




nice to know u follow the prophecy of popes.. shame on u christians!!!!



> Sahih Muslim:41:6924:-Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour would not come until the Romans would land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq(border region b/w Syria & Turkey). An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of the people of the earth at that time will come from Medina (to counteract them). When they will arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans would say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight with them; and the Muslims would say: Nay, by Allah, we would never get aside from you and from our brethren that you may fight them. They will then fight and a third (part) of the army would run away, whom Allah will never forgive. A third (part of the army). which would be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eye, would be killed and the third who would never be put to trial would win and they would be conquerors of Constantinople. And as they would be busy in distributing the spoils of war (amongst themselves) after hanging their swords by the olive trees, the Satan would cry: The Dajjal has taken your place among your family. They would then come out, but it would be of no avail. And when they would come to Syria, he would come out while they would be still preparing themselves for battle drawing up the ranks. Certainly, the time of prayer shall come and then Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Mary would descend and would lead them in prayer. When the enemy of Allah would see him, it would (disappear) just as the salt dissolves itself in water and if he (Jesus) were not to confront them at all, even then it would dissolve completely, but Allah would kill them by his hand and he would show them their blood on his lance (the lance of Jesus Christ).



so there is a WAr coming between Present day romans (italians) and saudi arabia ( from medina). wonder which side US ,russia and china takes...




> Bukhari:4:55:657: Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (judge by Quranic law NOT bible; Hadees 658); he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol. 7)





Jesus christ superstar..



India is already divided in 1947 and further divided to more than 25 states now..

its going to get divided more. coz there is a plan to make a few more states.. hope its sooner than late.. Insha Allah...


----------



## sur

birdofprey said:


> ...i have checked the book its the prediction for 7th century.. we are for ur information in 21 st century AD and not year 1555.


His centuries do NOT co-incide with actual centuries... After writing he threw his papers in air to mix them up on purpose...

& all paras of Nostradamus u gave, I have mentioned on another forum.. Didn't mention all here to keep post from growing too long.. 


> nice to know u follow the prophecy of popes.. shame on u christians!!!!


I was giving how they see their future...



> so there is a WAr coming between Present day romans (italians) and saudi arabia ( from medina). ...


Rome represented christian-dom at time of Prophet... Romans means NATO forces now...


----------



## ARCHON

> (his centuries do NOT co-incide with actual centuries... After writing he threw his papers in air to mix them up on purpose...)




So it could be already happened coz his compueter was probably pentium 1 BC .. papers in air to confuse himself.. good... good....

I hope you read the whole sentence in context with other verses around just like people usually do.. 




> I was giving how they see their future...




This is how they see?? u mean CIA?? US??? or people during 10-15 AD?? maybe they missed the article about Pakistan... 




> Rome represented christian-dom at time of Prophet... Romans means NATO forces now...



Rome means NATO now?? You mean muslim countries like turkey and albania included????.. coz its also in NATO...


So its official its NATO vs Saudi now.. 

sur will keep u updated about the status soon...


This funny guy even has a date for it.. 



> When will that happen??? Around 2nd upcoming solar maximum... InshALLAH... i.e., 2022... (2011+11=2022)


----------



## sur

birdofprey said:


> This funny guy even has a date for it..


This date was actually given by Nostradamus... Solar Max. theory is just a supportive idea... Like he gave date of Bush's nomination... If u could find it...

& thanks for letting me know that Turkey is part of NATO, coz it solved a problem I was facing with understanding some stuff...


----------



## Omar1984

H2O3C4Nitrogen said:


> I think the US's map should be redrawn which shouldbe devided in four states1
> 1.BLACK AMERICA FOR NEGROS(nigers)
> 2. JEW AMERICA
> 3. RED INDIAN AMERICA
> 4. STATE OF COWBOYS



Well said. No one would like their country to lose that much territory.


----------



## sur

Omar1984 said:


> Well said. No one would like their country to lose that much territory.


*There's seperation movement in USA, for real.*
Here's from a person on another Forum... I quote:-
========================

I now live in the Republic of Lakotah

I was living in the USA.

However, the Sioux have now severed all treaties with the USA and we have now declared independence and claim parts of the Dakotas, Nebraska, Montana and Wyoming as the Republic of Lakotah. Although, the government is sort of chuckling at us, we are dead serious and we will not recognize the wasichu government of the USA. We are doing our best to assert our independence peacefully, but if need be, we will have another stand off at Wounded Knee and this time the Blue Coats will have to bury all of the Lakotah, as this will remain Lakotah land as long as one Lakotah remains standing.

Although the Lakotah withdrew from all treaties in 2007, we have just now become fully organized and have announced our declaration of being an independent nation.


> *Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago*
> Thursday, December 20, 2007
> 
> 
> 
> WASHINGTON  The Lakota Indians, who gave the world legendary warriors Sitting Bull and Crazy Horse, have withdrawn from treaties with the United States.
> 
> "We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,'' long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.
> 
> A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old.
> 
> The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.
> 
> Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.
> 
> The new country would issue its own passports and driving licences, and living there would be tax-free - provided residents renounce their U.S. citizenship, Mr Means said.
> 
> The treaties signed with the U.S. were merely "worthless words on worthless paper," the Lakota freedom activists said.
> 
> Withdrawing from the treaties was entirely legal, Means said.
> 
> "This is according to the laws of the United States, specifically article six of the constitution,'' which states that treaties are the supreme law of the land, he said.
> 
> "It is also within the laws on treaties passed at the Vienna Convention and put into effect by the US and the rest of the international community in 1980. We are legally within our rights to be free and independent,'' said Means.
> 
> The Lakota relaunched their journey to freedom in 1974, when they drafted a declaration of continuing independence  an overt play on the title of the United States' Declaration of Independence from England.
> 
> Thirty-three years have elapsed since then because "it takes critical mass to combat colonialism and we wanted to make sure that all our ducks were in a row,'' Means said.
> 
> One duck moved into place in September, when the United Nations adopted a non-binding declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples  despite opposition from the United States, which said it clashed with its own laws.
> 
> "We have 33 treaties with the United States that they have not lived by. They continue to take our land, our water, our children,'' Phyllis Young, who helped organize the first international conference on indigenous rights in Geneva in 1977, told the news conference.
> 
> The U.S. "annexation'' of native American land has resulted in once proud tribes such as the Lakota becoming mere "facsimiles of white people,'' said Means.
> 
> Oppression at the hands of the U.S. government has taken its toll on the Lakota, whose men have one of the shortest life expectancies - less than 44 years - in the world.
> 
> Lakota teen suicides are 150 per cent above the norm for the U.S.; infant mortality is five times higher than the U.S. average; and unemployment is rife, according to the Lakota freedom movement's website


Map of the Republic of Lakotah. Gold area indicates boundaries that could be taken back if all treaties with the Lakota People and the United States are withdrawn. Red and maroon areas indicate current boundaries.

I currently live in the red area of the map. That is Reservation land and technically was not under Federal Law anyhow. So this will have little change for me except I am taking an active role in the recognition of RoL as an independent nation


----------



## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

I skimmed thru the posts on this thread... Amazingly this thread has the most ludicrous posts ever posted on the whole forum... like this guy mentioning a war between Italians and Saudis... lol


----------



## Omar1984

Options for the United States:

Option 1:









Option 2:








Option 3:
Quit meddling in the Muslim world and keep your nose in your own region:


----------



## FreekiN

H2O3C4Nitrogen said:


> 1.BLACK AMERICA FOR NEGROS(nigers)



I can't stop laughing. lol


----------



## Jigs

Free Kurdistan ? Hahaha. Like those people actually had a homeland.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

Agnostic Pakistan? anyone?

hell u already gave me a new nationality with free balouchistan? rofl!


----------



## GareebNawaz

Omar1984 said:


> Options for the United States:
> 
> Option 1:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Option 2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Option 3:
> Quit meddling in the Muslim world and keep your nose in your own region:



i like the first one!!


----------



## 500

1942 US prediction of post war new world map:


----------



## LeGenD

Funniest thread ever.

And Nostradamus is labeled as a prophet by the WEST. As per teachings of Islam, no person can be considered as prophet after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Nostradamus is an example of a FALSE PROPHET invented to mislead people. So muslims should beware.

I won't be surprised if the so-called impending Armageddon turns out to be a *pre-planned campaign* by the imperial forces of the WEST to meet certain objectives.

Only Allah Almighty knows about future. Even palmistry is a forbidden art. Remember, Allah Almighty can reshape the future. He also plans.


----------



## Muhammad-Bin-Qasim

self delete


----------



## Mr.Ryu

If really any one need to Redrawn map for Muslim world it must be done 1ly by the highest authority in the world of Muslim like any thing similar to UN of Muslim world it will be only then fair and save the real purpose.


----------



## naveenp

sur said:


> Sir, that's coming soon, InshALLAH...
> 
> *Muhammad Rusool-ALLAH said:-*
> *Na&#8217;im, son of Hammad in al-Fitan, reports that Abu Huraira said
> that the Messenger of Allah mentioned India and said: &#8220;A group
> of you will conquer India. Allah will open (India) for them until
> they come with its kings chained &#8212; Allah having forgiven their
> sins &#8212; when they return (from India), they will find the son of
> Mary in Syria.&#8221;(Kitab Al Fitan)*
> _(This is NOT talking of previous muslim conquests of india, coz they didn't go back to help Eesa(Jesus) in Syria!!!)_
> 
> 
> *Then Nostradamus wrote his dreams, around year 1555:-*
> The *deep entry*_(indo-pak region)_ made by the great Queen
> will make the place powerful and inaccessible;
> the army of the three lions will be defeated_(in indo-pak region)_
> causing within a thing hideous and terrible.
> 
> 
> (Now indians r hallucinating that their national "symbol" which is 2-D has 4 lions in it, NOT 3... Coz their mind is stuck in 4 lions of Sarnath that was a 3-D structure & 2-D symbol adopted from that 3-D structure shows 3-Lions......) Indian passport ...&... R.A.W all share that 3-Lion photo that Nostradamus saw in his dream...
> ==========================
> 
> *When will that happen???* Around 2nd upcoming solar maximum... InshALLAH... i.e., *2022*... (2011+11=2022)
> 
> 
> Last Solar maximum was around the time when Bush was nominated & later US attacked Afghanistan...
> 
> Around upcoming solar Maximum they r planing another false-flag... to which Obama alluded in Berlin speech* when he said terrorists trained in Karachi will use fussile material from Russia to attack Paris.... & then Bob Graham predicted they r expecting nuclear attack in US with 5 years...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just look at the smug smiles of guys standing on back instead of having fears or concerns on their faces... & they nod heads when Jim says "focus on Pakistan", like it was "the gist" of their address.... Like "focussing on Pak-istan" was more relevant than nuke/bio attack....
> 
> 
> & it's around the time when "Mayan Calendar'" says poles will be switched,,, era of tyrrany will end...(as opposed to common misconception that Mayan ppl predicted end-of-time... No they didn't.)
> 
> 
> If u guys remember, 6 nuclear cruise missiles took-off *"ACCIDENTLY"* from *Minot Airbase USA* & *ONLY 5 came back* on Barksdale Airbase........ Mainstream media didn't give more than few minutes to this incident, that too very vague & limited information was given... & Following lower-level crew involved in handling those nukes *died in car or bike "accidents"* etc.
> 1-Todd Blue - Minot AFB(Airforce Base)
> 2-a married couple from Barksdale Airbase(Names not released)
> 3-Stephen Garrett - Minot AFB
> 4-Weston Kissel - Minot AFB
> 5-John Frueh
> 6-Jonathan Bayless - Minot AFB
> 7-Thomas L. Tinsley - Alleged of breach in following the standards while handling nukes.
> 
> This is the stolen nuke "they" plan to explode somewhere & blame it on Pakistan.... that's their plan, but ALLAH also plans & ALLAH is best of planners... I'm hopeful their plan will fail like their plan of USS_Liberty attack failed.
> Anyways C.D.C have coffins** & Cement Cribs*** ready to dispose off those bodies...
> 
> *
> Obama's Berlin speech watch at *minute:8:21 & then at 8:47*:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **
> Coffins:-
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ***
> Massive expansion of cemetery... what r they anticipating???
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = =
> = = = = = = =
> Not only india,,, western tyrrants r also ready for their "end",,, *in their own words*...
> 
> "Prophecy of POPEs" tells us that present pope is *2nd last* (111th)pope & after him will come last (112th) pope(Peter of Rome)..... *LAST pope???!!!* is christianity going to end after that???
> 
> There's unconfirmed news that Freemasons have started selling their Lodges in USA...!!! Why?
> 
> *Here's what Prophecy of Popes' says about last pope...*
> _112 Peter the Roman, who will nourish the sheep in many tribulations; when they are finished, the *city of seven hills* will be destroyed, and the *fearsome Judge* will judge His people. The End._
> 
> "City of 7 hills" = Italy-Rome._Rome represented"Christianity"during Prophet Muhammad's time & when this prophecy was written_
> Fearsome judge_(c.f.2nd Hadees Below)_ = Eesa(Jesus)
> Peter Romanus = Dajjal!!!???
> 
> 
> Sahih Muslim:41:6924:-Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The Last Hour would not come until the Romans would land at al-A'maq or in Dabiq(border region b/w Syria & Turkey). An army consisting of the best (soldiers) of the people of the earth at that time will come from Medina (to counteract them). When they will arrange themselves in ranks, the Romans would say: Do not stand between us and those (Muslims) who took prisoners from amongst us. Let us fight with them; and the Muslims would say: Nay, by Allah, we would never get aside from you and from our brethren that you may fight them. They will then fight and a third (part) of the army would run away, whom Allah will never forgive. A third (part of the army). which would be constituted of excellent martyrs in Allah's eye, would be killed and the third who would never be put to trial would win and they would be conquerors of Constantinople. And as they would be busy in distributing the spoils of war (amongst themselves) after hanging their swords by the olive trees, the Satan would cry: The Dajjal has taken your place among your family. They would then come out, but it would be of no avail. And when they would come to Syria, he would come out while they would be still preparing themselves for battle drawing up the ranks. Certainly, the time of prayer shall come and then Jesus (peace be upon him) son of Mary would descend and would lead them in prayer. When the enemy of Allah would see him, it would (disappear) just as the salt dissolves itself in water and if he (Jesus) were not to confront them at all, even then it would dissolve completely, but Allah would kill them by his hand and he would show them their blood on his lance (the lance of Jesus Christ).
> 
> 
> Bukhari:4:55:657: [/COLOR]Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the *son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly* _(judge by Quranic law NOT bible; Hadees 658)_; he *will break the Cross* and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya (i.e. taxation taken from non Muslims). Money will be in abundance so that nobody will accept it, and a single prostration to Allah (in prayer) will be better than the whole world and whatever is in it." Abu Huraira added "If you wish, you can recite (this verse of the Holy Book): -- 'And there is none Of the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (i.e. Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being) Before his death. And on the Day of Judgment He will be a witness Against them." (4.159) (See Fateh Al Bari, Page 302 Vol. 7)
> 
> 
> compare "will break cross" to another prophecy by christians themselves... "Our Lady of Fatima's" "Third Secret"








what is muhammad came after 500 years of jesus, guys im really confusing 
The Bible was not written in one specific year or in a single location. The Bible is a collection of writings, and the earliest ones were set down nearly 3500 years ago. So let's start at the beginning of this fascinating story.

The first five books of the Bible are attributed to Moses and are commonly called the Pentateuch (literally "five scrolls").

Moses lived between 1500 and 1300 BC, though he recounts events in the first eleven chapters of the Bible that occurred long before his time (such as the creation and the flood).

where did jesus stated about muslim side. he blvd only one god exist i.e jehovah.


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## naveenp

Jesus as an Apostle of Allah and a human being

jesus is son of jehovah. dnt speculate it from ur quran. 

the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (judge by Quranic law NOT bible; Hadees 658)

we believe in jesus second coming, that day he will lift of all those who fallows his (10 commandments) purity in heart and invade all sinners.ok 

The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
1 &#8220;I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2 &#8220;You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
3 &#8220;You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
4 &#8220;Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
5 &#8220;Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
6 &#8220;You shall not murder.
7 &#8220;You shall not commit adultery.
8 &#8220;You shall not steal.
9 &#8220;You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10 &#8220;You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.&#8221;


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## asad71

1. Getting back to the topic, the map doesn't include even half the Muslims of the world. This in reality looks like a redrawn map of West Asia.

2. Having said that, we need to note the current push of the Americans to have Israel accept the 1967 borders - which is a point in the original concept paper.

3. Pakistan herself must be concerned of efforts by Ahmedi/Qadyini and Ismaili/Aga Khani elements seeking independent states curved out of Pak territory. These elements, who maintain close ties with the Neo Cons and Zionists, have the full support of India and America.

4. Islamic history, however, shows that in the end Islam prevails because of the purity and strength of its Message.


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## Khan_patriot

This is just some zionist $HIT and if it isn't i dare them to try and achieve this........


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## naveenp

mujib43 said:


> 1. Getting back to the topic, the map doesn't include even half the Muslims of the world. This in reality looks like a redrawn map of West Asia.
> 
> 2. Having said that, we need to note the current push of the Americans to have Israel accept the 1967 borders - which is a point in the original concept paper.
> 
> 3. Pakistan herself must be concerned of efforts by Ahmedi/Qadyini and Ismaili/Aga Khani elements seeking independent states curved out of Pak territory. These elements, who maintain close ties with the Neo Cons and Zionists, have the full support of India and America.
> 
> 4. Islamic history, however, shows that in the end Islam prevails because of the purity and strength of its Message.


 
is purity mean killing people bro. i think it is cruelty


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## naveenp

Khan_patriot said:


> This is just some zionist $HIT and if it isn't i dare them to try and achieve this........


 

are you talking about my msg


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## asad71

1. Killings not only took place in Godhra roasting a train full of Muslims alive, but killings have been going on in the "mohollas" of rural Indian. That is the reason why half the population of that country is up in arms against its establishment/govt/high cast Brahmonic hold. 

2. The Message of Islam is one of peace, brotherhood, equality and economic emancipation. If it was what you suggest, the subcontinent, after a thousand years of Muslim rule, would have been devoid of any kind except Muslims.

3. Yours is not an unusual perception. The history we know is based on references "manufactured" by writers commissioned by the Christian Church / Imperial Colonials with an anti_Muslim agenda. And these are re-winded/refreshed to brain wash us day and night by the international media controlled by the same cartel. If you do not know Arabic or Persian, perhaps you would care to read late Palestinian Christian writer Eduard Said's books on this.


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## footmarks

mujib43 said:


> 4. Islamic history, however, shows that in the end Islam prevails because of the purity and strength of its Message.


 
Yes, Islam prevails because of the purity and strength of its Message & true muslims who understand that & follow that. And on judging by this parameter, most of the muslims are NOT following Islam.


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## Roybot

mujib43 said:


> 1. *Killings not only took place in Godhra roasting a train full of Muslims alive,* but killings have been going on in the "mohollas" of rural Indian. That is the reason why half the population of that country is up in arms against its establishment/govt/high cast Brahmonic hold.


 


Muslims burnt Hindu pilgrims in the Godhra train. Use the internet to read up on an issue before blabbering away.


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## asad71

Thank you for not saying I should ask Narendra Modi or Tegaria. Why don't you read what the former Police Chief of that place has just revealed - if you do not believe the testimony of so many local Muslims.


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## Roybot

^^ You are just embarrassing yourself mate, talking about something you have no idea about. Trial is going on, culprits(both Hindus and Muslims) will be punished.


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## asad71

roy_gourav said:


> ^^ You are just embarrassing yourself mate, talking about something you have no idea about. Trial is going on, culprits(both Hindus and Muslims) will be punished.


 
And the slaughtered Muslims will return from death????


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## Twain Shakespeare

I would like to say I am from the 3rd Millenium, and I think nation-states are as barbaric as a diet with meat, and belong back in the stone age with child sacrifice and usury.
Next to the big nation states, I am most frightened of the Catholic Church. I would be just as frightened of a Sunni Caliphate, although a Shia Caliphate would be as funny as a Protestant Pope, or a black man as president.
I read a book by an Israeli intelligence officer in which he described a similar plan to create non-Arabic or non-Sunni states on the principle of the enemy of my enemy, but...
That doesn't mean that there might be some good ideas in parts of it.
It is certainly not up to me to tell people on your side of the planet what to do! I live next door to the bloodiest battle-field on the planet, on the Jornado del Muerte on the border between the last of the 19th Century Empires and &#8220;Poor Mexico, so far from God, so close to the United States!&#8221;
When people ask me where I am from, I reply &#8220;Occupied New Mexico.&#8221;

If an empire is a government that rules a multinational population, often with a dominant ethnic group, then Pakistan and India are artificial empires. Perhaps one might say they are the last remnants of the British empire, but I wouldn't, being Scottish.
Turkey, Iran, Mexico, Brazil, and even Russia are rump states of 19th Century Empires. China, on the other hand, is an empire that has survived since the dawn of civilizations. 
I am a Confederate and a Gringo, and about as much one of the Dineh as I am Jewish. I am not a Yankee.
Aside from the two million oppressed natives of Turtle Island, and the millions of Mexicans who also might claim this is their land, and the Hawaiians, and the descendents of slaves, and several million Muslims, Hindus, East Asians and Africans from the &#8220;external proletariat&#8221; in our satrapies, there are even conquered &#8220;white&#8221; nations in USAmerica, the unlamented (by me) CSA, the Republic of Texas, the Deseret of the Mormon Mohammad wannabe Brigham Young, and, of course, France (Everybody has beaten France. Hell, Ghaddafy and Greenpeace can beat France. Mexico can beat France!)
Even at the time of the Revolution, the whites were divided between Yankees, Quakers, Planters, Crackers, and frontier Hoosiers, not to mention Germans. They were only united as a people by their hatred of the Irish. Nowadays, everybody in this debased and bastardized culture, rather their name is Fothering-on-Buggerswold, Garcia, or Zelinsky, claims to be Irish.

I don't know about Pakistan or India or China, much less Iran or Turkey, but USAmerica is way too big. And any nation that isn't a satrapy of the global kleptocracy is subject to the fate of Iraq or Libya, unless, like Cuba and Korea, it has, or might well have, nukes.
Ahimsa. May we all have peace, love, and wisdom in our lives.


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## punit

> Im amused by the idiot author of this map as to how he includes Pakistan in the middle east? 99% of the population does not speak arabic and has no connection whatsoever to the Middle East. He then produces greater balochistan? lol...with a total balochi population including Iran of around 10 million people....how is he going to achieve that? It is the 160 million people of Pakistan that will absorb "greater" balochistan. Peshawar will absorb Kabul........Lahore will absorb Dehli and Agra.....Sindh will absorb Thar/Rajastan......Karachi will absorb Gujrat. It is Pakistan that is the true homeland for all these people. The unatural state of india will not survive in its current form...for it is a state glued together only by force.
> The sacred land and ancestor of the Indus Civilization is Pakistan .



of course sir. plz do come back to enlighten us


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## punit

> And the slaughtered Muslims will return from death????



yup along with those( 3 million others ) sent to heaven by ur brothers from West


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## PacificBeach

punit said:


> yup along with those( 3 million others ) sent to heaven by ur brothers from West


 
You mean your British masters???


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## zaixiatian

I think I saw the map on some other forum, anybody want to see it?
I think they can not open


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## yyetttt

What the hell... Pakistan is the strongest country in the Muslim world... I think Pakistan would have the most share of land here.


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## Pak47

I don't see the map changing much in the future.. as it sits now.. Maybe Kashmir will be finally resolved?

also.. I can draw a map tomorrow with Pakistan owning all of the middle east.. hence my point.


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## regular

These Maps drawn by the US media are nothing but B.S. so we need not worry about it.....let them be jealous with our expansion ....Insha_Allah!........


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## WAR-rior

regular said:


> These Maps drawn by the US media are nothing but B.S. so we need not worry about it.....let them be jealous with our expansion ....Insha_Allah!........



expansion ? what expansion ?


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## Delhi-Belly

WAR-rior said:


> expansion ? what expansion ?



expansion of ideology


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## WAR-rior

Delhi-Belly said:


> expansion of ideology



pakistanis are so confusing sometimes. it seems that they have uninvitingly carried the whole burden of muslim ummah (which doesn't exist). 

don't take me wrong but arab world doesn't value you a bit and still you want to be the flag bearers.

once a pakistani said to an arab about mamluk's rule in spain with words like. 'jab humane spain par hukumat ki thi', arab immediately responded, 'kaun hum? aap to subcontinent main the, europe main aapka kya kaam'.

u guys can understand the status of nonexistent ummah.


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## ARSENAL6

regular said:


> These Maps drawn by the US media are nothing but B.S. so we need not worry about it.....let them be jealous with our expansion ....Insha_Allah!........


 
Even if they did tried it, the United State will turn out to be broken back third rate Country AFTER WHEN PAKISTAN DEALT WITH THEM. AND the people who organised it, - grand architect of the mass murders of Muslims and others, and those who support such atrocities will also be dealt with INSHALLAH ! 
INSHALLAH ! 
INSHALLAH !.

Pakistan Zindabad


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## asad71

1. The target is Islam. The target are the Muslims. The perpetrators, and therefore, the potential beneficiaries of this diabolical scheme are the Western Christian Civilization (WCC), Zionists and the Indian Hindus. 

2.They have done their homework well. To achieve their goal they must break up Saudi Arabia, the Sword Arm of Islam Turkey and the Pakistan which posses the Islamic Nuke.

3. Shia-Sunni feelings have been exploited - and this must have been going on for about 50 years. For example, before Ayub all Pak strong men were Shias, with Ghulam Mohammad being a Qadyiani. Ayub was thrown out by a Shia Bhutto luring him into a war unprepared. The Constitution was not followed to allow the Speaker Fazlul Qader Chowdhury to succeed, but Shia Yahya was brought in through the good offices of the US Viceroy of the region Shah of Iran. Ziaul Huq and Nawaz Sharif were Sunnis, but Benazir and Zardari are Shias. Mushi didn't know what he was but in effect he belonged to the Qadyiani camp - thanks to Saheba.

4. India and Hindus should have been siding with the Muslims in the conflict unfolding as was the case in the Khilafat movement. But 1857 had open the eyes of WCC to the power of an unity between the two communities. Therefore, the Indian Hindu belongs to the WCC camp out of hatred fostered against Pakistan fueled regularly by WCC. Without the mercenary manpower that Hindu India can provide, this scheme would not be workable. In fact Hindu Indian money and resources, including manpower, is already deployed against Pakistan in Balochistan, FATA and Afghanistan.

5. If you sit down to list out, Pakistan still has a lot of patriotic, honest and honorable leaders or potential leaders. Let me begin by naming Air Marshal Asghar Khan - a patriot of faultless character. Justice Iqbal, son of the Allama. Gen Hamid Gul. Brig Yusuf of Afghan Jihad. There are many more. In fact if you list out the traitors, the list may be shorter. But they are appointed viceroys/quislings of the powerful WCC.

6. It's not so much the policies/projects that Pakistan has been offering, it is the people involved in delivering these policies, programs and projects.


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## Uchiha

delete nvmmm


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## asad71

*
Smashing Greater Central Asia*

Editor&#8217;s Note:This is originally a series of three articles compiled as one from writer&#8217;s blog Therearenosunglasses&#8217;s Weblog
By: Peter Chamberlin
After ten years of raging warfare in Afghanistan, watching the fight slowly ooze across the invisible Durand Line into Pakistan, we have the right to wonder whether the war is any closer to ending today? It is perfectly reasonable to suspect that if we were allowed to know the truth we would understand that the American government has no plans to end the war in the near future. Trying to make sense of relentless Western news reports on the disaster of the impending American &#8220;withdrawal from Afghanistan,&#8221; even though other reports reveal that super-bases have been constructed, leaveing most observers completely bewildered about whether the Afgan war is ending or expanding. The only thing that is obvious is that there is to be no &#8220;withdrawal&#8221; from Afghanistan, at least not from the northern half of the country (SEE: Plan B In Afghanistan).
If it was true that US forces were planning to eventually leave Afghanistan, then CENTCOM would not be allocating $100 million to build a Special Forces base in Mazar i-Sharif. This is to be a massive, permanent structure, intended to serve as a Special Forces operations center for many years to come. The majority of analysts who have focused upon this SOCOM facility, have drawn the conclusion that this and the other super-bases are intended to provide protection to the pipelines which are planned, in addition to providing Green Berets and Navy Seals to send on night raids into Pakistan. My own research into the subject reveals something far more sinister than just the intentional prolonging of the occupation of Afghanistan.
From the bid solicitations which are cited below, the US Army has big plans for Central Asia, most of them are scheduled to take place after the official Afghan withdrawal date of 2014. Ongoing military construction contracts are proof of military intent. CENTCOM has just awarded KBR a contract for $3.8 billion for constructing unspecified new facilities in an &#8220;area of responsibility&#8221; which encompasses the following countries:
Afghanistan, Bahrain, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Kyrgyzstan, Lebanon, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan and Yemen.
This contract (which is supplemented by the other contracts given below) is something known as a MATOC contract (Multiple Award Task Order Contract). To initiate this major omnibus contract, ninety-nine security-cleared companies were solicited to participate in the contract program, which is scheduled to continue until the year 2016. The majority of these ninety-nine companies specialized in wartime construction, but many of them had exotic specialties, ranging from electronic prototype construction, to aerial drone manufacturing and operations, to private security contractors specializing in &#8220;irregular warfare.&#8221; There were even a couple of them dealing with &#8220;directed energy weaponry,&#8221; in addition to one image consultant. 
From this list of approved, experienced contractors fourteen construction contractors were selected to form a pool of ready bidders to bid on each project as it reached approval stage. Somehow, since the solicitation was announced, KBR has apparently eliminated the competition, winning the whole construction contract. It was also announced that five electronic contractors would form a bidding pool for the component manufacturing, maintenance and operations of the experimental prototype network. It may turn out, that the electronics are handled like the building, SAIC (Science Applications International Corporation) may have landed the entire package. (It does seem strange that both contract winners have been charged with wrongdoing on previous contracts.) SAIC has also been awarded another separate contract which is a companion to this big operation:
SAIC, Tetra Tech Joint Venture Gets Criminal Justice Program Support (CJPS) Contract
Science Applications International Corporation (SAIC) (NYSE:SAI) and Tetra Tech, Inc. (NASDAQ:TTEK) announced that their joint venture, Integrated Justice Systems International, LLC (IJSI), has been awarded a contract to render worldwide civilian police and criminal justice assistance to the U.S. Department of State&#8217;s Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement Affairs (INL). The total contract limit for this multiple-award, indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contract is worth $10 billion, consisting one base year and four option years.
To compete for task orders to supply INL with program management, criminal justice, and life and mission support to countries emerging from conflict or otherwise facing instability challenges the abovementioned joint venture was chosen.
IJSI shall render technical assistance, training, logistics and infrastructure services to support the Department of State&#8217;s efforts to strengthen criminal justice systems in select partner countries under this new contract. IJSI is one of six teams that can compete for task orders under the contract.
Chuck Zang, SAIC senior vice president and business unit general manager explained that our joint venture renders the experience required for successful international criminal justice training and worldwide logistics. He added that SAIC has critical experience supporting the U.S. government&#8217;s overseas law enforcement initiatives; including antiterrorism training and technical assistance and that they expect to support this important effort, and using their expertise to help ensure stability and safety through professional criminal justice entities, and training personnel to ensure modernization of their programs. 
Washington&#8217;s New Foxy Plan To Sneak Into the Central Asian Hen House
&#8220;Counternarcotics officials in Washington have unveiled a plan to help combat the flow of drugs from Afghanistan, through Central Asia, and into Russia&#8230;The plan, still in draft form, is known as &#8220;The Central Asian Counternarcotics Initiative&#8221; (CACI). It envisions the establishment of counternarcotics task forces in the five Central Asian countries &#8212; Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Uzbekistan &#8212; which would communicate with similar existing units in Afghanistan and Russia&#8230;The seven groups would share sensitive information, improve coordination on joint and cross-border operations, and help build cases against wanted or arrested traffickers&#8230;for the Russian Federation &#8216;it is a means by which they can link into the efforts both in the source country, Afghanistan, and transit countries, the Central Asian five, in a way that they currently cannot do.&#8217;&#8221;
According to other advertised contracts, whatever work is in the pipeline for KBR, the operation will involve major investments in a prototype experimental electronic network. The official government website for the General Services Administration is soliciting contract bids for work for the Quick Reaction and Battle Command Support Division (QR&BCSD), which does everything from surveillance, to Special Forces missions, to conducting &#8220;irregular warfare,&#8221; to running aerial drones.
ENGINEERING, INSTALLATION/INTEGRATION, TECHNOLOGY INSERTION AND LOGISTICAL SUPPORT TO THE QUICK REACTION & BATTLE COMMAND SUPPORT DIVISION (QR&BCSD)
Solicitation Number: 4QDS21110084
Agency: General Services Administration
Office: Federal Acquisition Service (FAS)
Location: Assisted Acquisition Services Division (4QFA)
This contract is also for unspecified work in the following countries, covering the same projected timeframe (contracts to be completed by 2016):
Afghanistan, Azerbaijan, Dubai, Egypt, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan and Pakistan.
In narrowing the list down, we can rule-out the construction of these new facilities in Afghanistan or Pakistan, since such assets are already deployed there. Under a new plan unveiled Thursday, the Defense Dept. said that it is preparing to treat cyberspace as another &#8220;operational domain.&#8221; In this domain, China has been identified as America&#8217;s primary &#8220;cyber-enemy.&#8221; That should shrink the list, ruling-out the Middle Eastern, African and European countries, as the battlefield for any new net-centric operations, leaving only &#8220;the Stans&#8221; as the planned construction sites. Whatever the US military has planned for Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, or Uzbekistan will definitely be net-centric, in a big way. It is unlikely that the host governments will be apprised of any special operations which are outside the parameters of fighting narco-terrorism.
It is important at this point that we examine the &#8220;Quick Reaction Forces,&#8221; so that we may understand how they will be used. We have already summarized what they do (everything from surveillance, to Special Forces missions, to running aerial drones), but we now need to take a closer look at what those jobs entail, comparing that to the specific technicians being sought for the jobs.
The government is soliciting private contractors with experience in combat zones, to build a private electronics network to be used by US Special Forces in the same Central Asian countries. Again, the work conditions and terms given for these job listings matches the MATOC contract solicitation.
Getting back to the Quick Reaction contract notice, there is a more detailed pdfincluded, which really fleshes-out exactly what is being sought. The following national organizations will be connected with the planned tasks:
&#8220;The Afghanistan training efforts include the Border Mentoring Task Force, DEA SCIF, Counter Narcotics Academy and the Border Services Communications training. Other programs requiring C4ISR training include the Kyrgyzstan Information Sharing Communications System, Turkmenistan State Border Service Communications, and Tajikistan Intra-Agency Communications System Training.&#8221;
The purpose of these secret and semi-secret operations will be to establish American military dominance over the energy-laden CIS states. Contrary to popular opinion, these dangerous covert measures are not necessarily just to enable American oil companies to &#8220;steal the oil,&#8221; but are more likely intended to simply give American blackmailers the opportunity to assert similar control of the Asian oil and gas pipelines which Russia has over European gas lines. American military penetration of Central Asia will give US leaders the power to shut-down China, as well as India and Pakistan, whenever the new pipelines become operational. This military penetration is being hotly pursued on all fronts.
As a first step to obtaining veto power over energy to China, the US Army is creating for SOCOM the first &#8220;big network&#8221; of sensors and communication media (net-centric combat system), tied directly into the Global Information Grid (GIG).

This is what &#8220;full-spectrum dominance&#8221; (the battlefield of the future) looks like. This is not speculation; it is a fact, taken directly from the General Services website.
The following job descriptions are copied from the Quick Reaction pdf:
Performance Work Statement (PWS) summarizes the jobs that this private network will perform for SOCOM:
engineering, integration, technology insertion, installation, testing, logistical,
material acquisition and other support activities as required in support of a variety of
C4ISR technology insertion and support projects.
Research and Development
&#8226; Technology Insertion, Systems Integration
&#8226; Engineering and Technical Documentation Support
&#8226; Software/Hardware Engineering
&#8226; Systems Engineering Support
&#8226; Engineering Contingencies
&#8226; Test and Evaluation
&#8226; Logistics Support
&#8226; Business Operations Support
Provide In-Country C4ISR experts to station/deploy into USCENTCOM and
other countries to perform C4ISR and Counter Narcotics communication
systems quality assurance tasks, witness testing, and assist in training
events., NIU firing and training range management, and provide
liaison/coordination between customer nations, embassies and C2D. The
C2D Counter Narcotics Program Coordinators shall report back to CENTCOM
HQ,
C4ISR stands for Command, Control, Communication, Computers, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance. MASINT is &#8220;measurement and signals intelligence&#8221; obtained from air-dropped or ground-placed sensors, which measure and report movement on the ground or in the sky to the Special Forces network.
Under cover of joint operations with host governments, pursuing narco-terrorists, or interdicting drugs or arms traffickers, American air support will be secretly mapping terrain and acquiring GPS coordinates, as they air-drop MASINT sensors across the countryside.
US-contracted construction companies will erect permanent border control and other security facilities. These facilities will be in addition to Special Forces training centers, like the one in Tokmok, Kyrgyzstan, and the new one being built in Qaratogh, Tajikistan. Both of these facilities will belong to the host governments, but they will also be providing space for US technicians to occupy, as they monitor and coordinate efforts within the country, bringing those governments in line with the the other six national groups participating in the CACI initiative.
Into these fledgling counter-terror/counter-narcotics networks, American and British Special Forces trainers will be inserted, serving as instructors in the new state-of-the-art centers. From these operational centers, &#8220;training missions&#8221; will be dispatched into the surrounding hills, facilitating the emplacement of ground-installed sensors, some of which have a battery life of six months or more.
In Central Asia, we will be hunting the IMU terrorists (Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan is the new &#8220;al-Qaeda&#8221, as the means to permanently entrench American power in the region. The claim that &#8220;targets have been identified&#8221; from the alleged bin Laden raid is a complete fabrication, since the new enemies (those who are willing to take-up arms against American occupiers) have not as yet been identified. Whenever the time for killing begins, the victims will all be identified as &#8220;militants&#8221; by the complicit Western media, after they demonstrate their willingness to take-up arms and resist the encroaching Empire. For now, they remain simple folks facing a low-level invasion, who have not yet made the conscious personal decisions to resist. This is the real nature of a war against terrorism, it is based on an erroneous definition of &#8220;terrorism.&#8221; Civilians who resist invasion are classified as &#8220;terrorists.&#8221; Identifying them for later elimination is a primary objective of the opening (&#8220;tickling&#8221 phase of the war.
The wars in Afghanistan and Pakistan have both been co-opted to this greater mission, allowing both wars to fester and stalemate until the new, greater war in Central Asia could be brought online. By &#8220;online,&#8221; I mean that preliminary groundwork could be laid, even as the destabilization programs were being guided to fruition. From the Tajik civil war, to the early colored revolutions and riots which have been engineered on the former Soviet real estate, to the more recent upheavals in Kyrghzstan and in China&#8217;s western regions. Social tensions in the region have been slowly percolated to the current boiling point, closely approximating the conditions arranged for the &#8220;Arab spring&#8221; movements. Destabilization is the primary weapon in &#8220;limited warfare&#8221; doctrine.
Afghan drugs have also served as another primary weapon in the CIA/Pentagon psywar destabilization program, their movement across borders and their corrupting influence have laid the foundations for joint counter-terrorism and counter-narcotics efforts from Afghanistan to Russia and beyond, anywhere that American-enabled opioids flow. In order to fight all the problems associated with these drugs and other fallout of America&#8217;s failed Afghan war plan, partnerships have been formed with US and NATO forces, making these governments all partners in plans for their own destruction and servitude. As a direct result of these partnerships, the doors have flung wide-open for a full-scale US military penetration of all of the &#8220;Stans,&#8221; and that planned penetration is getting underway.
In a strange twist of dictatorships striving to save their fledgling democracies from an Imperial penetration and net-centric psywar operations, governments which have found themselves under attack, have been turning to censorship of the Internet, as a last line of defense. In the past twenty-four hours three major Central Asian news websites have been taken-down by unknown entities in major cyber-attacks (Chronicles of Turkmenistan, NewsCentralAsia and Avesta.Tj).
In a mystifying arrogance that leaves decent folks grasping for the proper words to describe what we are witnessing, the American administration has revealed to the world that it has some unwritten right to take actions meant to undermine any government that tries to protect itself against the intensive, organized assault.
&#8220;The United States is funding the development of new technologies to circumvent unwanted controls, sponsoring training programs for Internet activists, and launching diplomatic initiatives to build &#8220;a global coalition of governments committed to advancing Internet freedom.&#8221;
The New York Times reports that the US State Department will have spent upwards of $70 million on &#8220;shadow networks&#8221; which would allow protesters to communicate even if powers that be pull the traditional plug &#8212; so far, it&#8217;s spent at least $50 million on a independent cell phone network for Afghanistan, and given a $2 million grant to members of the New America Foundation creating the &#8220;internet in a suitcase&#8221; pictured above. It&#8217;s a batch of mesh networking equipment designed to be spirited into a country to set up a private network.&#8221;
It is the nature of psywar (psychological warfare) that each small operation builds upon the previous operations, in a kind of inverted pyramidal edifice, where all building blocks rest upon one original faulty foundation stone. In the case of the global war on terror (GWOT), everything rests upon the American definition of the word &#8220;terrorism.&#8221;
In the grand psyop, war is perpetuated and sometimes escalated, but it is never ended. In order to accomplish the perpetuation of persistent warfare, American forces are never allowed to obtain anything approximating ultimate victory. In the scheme labeled &#8220;asymmetric warfare,&#8221; the impossible becomes an everyday occurrence. The flea is portrayed as the equal to the wolf pack. Small, poorly armed militant groups like the Taliban, somehow manage to hold-off and sometimes defeat the world&#8217;s most powerful military, even with its overwhelming air superiority. Even in mountainous terrain, where there are vast distances between targets, the overaccommodating Western media paints a misleading picture of militants who are armed with RPGs and AK-47s, surviving against military forces which operate under the principle of &#8220;full-spectrum dominance.&#8221;
Maintaining the illusion is the key to maintaining perpetual war. The psywar is far more important than the real war. The war against minds has more far-reaching effects than the war against the flesh. With one bullet, or one-hundred bullets, you can kill one man (or several), but with the right combination of words you can destroy or disable the minds of hundreds, even thousands of men. This is the reason why the US Army maintains 40 psychological warfare reserve units. Even the most deadly arm of the American military, the Special Forces divisions rely upon psyop battalions to prepare their battles for them. Full-spectrum cyber-warfare brings every resource to bear upon making the enemy think whatever you want them to think. In the case of the global terror war, America&#8217;s real intentions are hidden behind a façade of ineptitude and near-incompetence, while the most sophisticated warfighting system ever dreamed-up by the minds of martial man have concentrated on overcoming the minds of the world.
They do this by creating the contradictory impression that our military is more concerned with perpetuating our enemies than in defeating them. We fight against &#8220;militant Islamists,&#8221; even while our every action is cued towards increasing the number of militants. American policies of staging overwhelming punitive attacks upon our adversaries, knowing that countless numbers of Muslim males will rush forward in reaction, seeking vengeance for murdered family members, increases the resistance, instead of decreasing it. A policy which focuses upon provocation aims to drive the insurgencies. It is little wonder that so many researchers draw the conclusion that the CIA and military intelligence are behind the militant/terrorist groups, if not in actual deeds, then in intentions. This &#8220;intelligence-driven war&#8221; is a perpetual motion machine.
By driving the &#8220;Islamic&#8221; militant groups, wherever policy-makers wish to go, the doors are opened wide to US and NATO forces. The staged mock &#8220;killing of bin Laden&#8221; has set the next stage in the grand Pentagon psywar, a massive &#8220;manhunt&#8221; deep into Central Asia. World opinion is now pre-primed to expect US Special Forces kill teams to pursue Osama&#8217;s alleged associates wherever they can be spotted in CENTCOM&#8217;s area of operations.
The &#8220;killing of bin Laden&#8221; scam is being augmented by further US government machinations, which are centered around circumstances arising from the &#8220;failing&#8221; Afghan war&#8211;drugs and gun-running, narco-terrorism, regional instability. Under the pretense of assisting local governments deal with this Afghan-related chaos (through American and NATO support in improving national technological capabilities, especially in tightening border security), inroads are made into each of the targeted states military and police forces, justifying intensive penetration of the countryside under peaceful &#8220;aid&#8221; programs.
The American construction of massive bases in foreign countries (often against the will of the host governments) is one of those &#8220;national security&#8221; issues that our &#8220;free press&#8221; normally chooses to avoid. Despite claims that media in Western democracies are free to report on whatever they want, the corporate-owned press chooses to avoid stories of outright government duplicity, such as the contradictions inherent in the base construction issue. America is not so generous that it builds multi- million military bases with the intention to simply give them away as soon as they are completed. The tracks which have been left, confirm to us all, that the Afghan war is not slated to end in 2014, it is instead, going to be shifted into interior Central Asia. There is not yet any reason for world opinion to accept that major shifting of forces, but reasons (or at least excuses) are being created to shift those opinions, by means of the problems being cooked-up in the boiling pot of Afghanistan and Pakistan.
While the world&#8217;s attention will remain riveted to potential military actions in Pakistan and the Persian Gulf, the real war will erupt elsewhere, seemingly out of nowhere.
Representatives from all of the secret agencies of the Stans, except for Turkmenistan, have come together in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan to identify a common threat in Central Asia, emanating from a non-existent terrorist underground (SEE: Secret services say about the presence in Central Asia, domestic extremist underground). This consensus on a common invisible enemy sets the stage for the coming creation of a Central Asian rapid reaction force (which is to be used primarily for crushing political dissent), without defining the author of that budding force. Will it be Western-oriented or Russian in composition, or will there be two competing forces?
The sudden appearance of &#8220;Islamist terrorists&#8221; inKazakhstanseems like a sure sign of outside intervention, but is it really? It is doubtful that many of the terrorist attacks which have happened in the past and have been blamed on shadowy, previously unheard of terrorist outfits, have really been the work of religious extremists. The exceptionally high military skills which have been exhibited in most of these rare guerilla attacks (Fedayeen) is proof that most of the terrorist attacks have been the work of military professionals. There is presently no way to know for certain whether the terrorism in Kazakhstan and elsewhere in Central Asia has been by real militants, or has been the work of intelligence agencies or military contractors, (mercenaries), or possibly commando actions by Special Forces soldiers.
Whoever bombed the railroad bridge in Uzbekistanrecently, destroying the concrete bridge supports, were clearly professionals, just like those demolition teams who disabled Russian hydroelectric dams last year. It would be accurate to think ofCentral Asia as a secret battlefield, where attacks and counterattacks have been taking place beyond the eyes and ears of civilization for several years. It is only now, since our attention has been diverted to the former Soviet empire that observers have started to take notice of the secret shenanigans.
When it comes to news reports out of the CIS countries, or any of the closed societies of Asia orAfrica(where the legitimate media does not go), we can never be sure if any of them are true. Who can be sure that reported terrorist attacks even happen at all?
If a believable world-wide terrorist organization can be created practically out of thin air, then how many real terrorists does it really take to create a popular perception of a growing terrorist menace? With its &#8220;al-Qaeda&#8221; project, the CIA has perfected its mastery of a process for creating pseudo-terrorists and weaving terrorist legends around them. Since the official start of the terror war, we have demonstrated our mastery of this black art to the world. Even though our leaders and the national media like to claim that we are locked in a deadly terrorist war with this Islamist organization, secret services in the know understand that &#8220;al-Qaeda&#8221; is merely a phantom outfit, existing only on paper, to be called forth whenever US inroads are needed anywhere in the world.
Every functioning spy agency knows by now that a few terrorist legends have been blended together to create the impression of a widespread terrorist internationale, to serveAmerica&#8217;s secret plans. The only real connection between &#8220;al-CIA-da&#8221;-linked terrorist groups anywhere is the common denominator of the CIA hand, or the CIA-created al Qaeda brand-name. The CIA has turned mass-murder into an art form, creating a prototype of roving gangs of militants, mercenaries, or hired criminal thugs, who provide cover stories for any missions to terrorize the local populations or to attack designated targets. Anyone who has been paying attention would have learned of our skills and adapted them towards their own ends by now, simply by plugging into the lively &#8220;al-Qaeda&#8221; mythology for themselves.
Which government is behind the alleged &#8220;Islamists&#8221; of Central Asia&#8211;American, or copycat competitors? Did Kazakh President Nazarbayev manufacture his own &#8220;Islamists,&#8221; in order to justify a wave of political repression, just as Bakiyev allegedly raised the specter of Mullah Abdullo and the IMU to provide cover for ethnic rioting that was unleashed in theOsh region in southernKyrgyzstan? Did Uzbek President Islam Karimov claim that unseen &#8220;terrorists&#8221; blew that railroad bridge to cover his feud withTajikistan? Or, were all of these faceless terrorists (some of them operating under the name of unheard of militant outfits) real, working for meddling outside powers? That is the nature of a covert war environment&#8212;nobody knows what to believe, so everybody is suspect. Such an environment is created with the intention of fostering suspicious paranoia among real resistance forces. It is part of the divide and conquer strategy.
This is what is happening all overCentral Asia. InUzbekistan, phantom &#8220;terrorists&#8221; have allegedly blown-up a railroad bridge, not on the main rail line being used to supply NATO, but on a side route which only servicesTajikistan. This rail blockage comes after months of sporadic service, because of an ongoing railroad war of attrition with Uzbek President Karimov, over the Rogun Dam issue. InTajikistanitself recently, the government has revived the memory of Mullah Abdullo and bands of phantom Islamists, to cover up government repression of religious dissidents. If a group ever existed anywhere, it remains forever useful to deceitful individuals who want to invoke the image of killer Islamists to cover their own tracks.
The term &#8220;militant Islamist&#8221; describes a particular, rare type of individual, one who follows a deviant version of Islam, and is highly trained in the military arts. The people who are usually blamed for isolated terrorist attacks have been religious students, who have somehow become radicalized and motivated to take-up arms, allegedly in defense of their faith. It takes outside intervention to train and arm these new militants, after they have gone through religious indoctrination. Somebody has to provide the military hardware they rely on. Every terrorist group has such backers or sponsors. Identifying the state terrorist backer is even more difficult than identifying secret terrorists.
The struggle to dominateEurasiahas evolved past the original Cold War scenario, producing a new form of warfare. World War III has been reduced to a media war, with the East/West coalitions striving in the shadows to influence popular perceptions and thereby alter reality. War reporting is a thing of the past, having been replaced by national &#8220;news,&#8221; which is usually delivered weeks, after the events have passed.
In a psywar, it is often impossible to tell which side is benefitting from the violence, or which side is responsible for it. It is sometimes even harder to know whether the event is intentional, or simply coincidence. It is sometimes possible after the event has passed to understand which side has gained advantages from the violent terrorist incident, with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. This is why hard analysis of the many ongoing international confrontations has us all looking backwards, in order to anticipate what the future may hold (perhaps this explains the prevailing paranoia in the conspiracy research community). InCentral Asiawe see traces left behind from many, widely dispersed terrorist events, forming an evidence trail that unlocks secret events from the past, giving us insight into the forces that will be destabilizing the CIS countries in the future.
All the players in the Central Asian psywar have adapted their games to the new realities. Everyone is now singing the same tune, expressing the same fear of future &#8220;Islamists&#8221; and narco-terrorists who might be migrating outward fromAfghanistanafter 2014. Both East and West claim to offer protection and order in the face of this common terrorist threat. There is an unspoken consensus on the true nature of these Islamist terrorists and an understanding that the real terrorist threat comes from those who protect the narco-terrorists and their deadly products. The real terrorists are those government forces which have banded together in secret to manufacture &#8220;radical Islam&#8221; and to push it onto unsuspecting Muslim populations.
The beliefs promoted by every radical Islamist outfit are the same&#8212;someone has insulted God and must die&#8212;it then falls to the true believer to become a self-appointed executioner for God. It is the Islamists of tomorrow, who represent the real danger which Central Asian governments prepare for today. Militant groups, led by such individuals are the only real military threat that could possibly endanger Central Asian governments in the near future.
Both East and West are now selling military solutions to meet future CIS needs. TheUSis relying on its &#8220;Partnership for Peace&#8221; relationships to gain an inside track to sell its proposed secret military solution. So far, this approach has paid-off with Western inroads made in border control, drug control and counter-terrorism programs in all of the Stans. It remains to be seen whether US diplomats can turn this into actual partnerships with separate governments. That decision will depend upon the American aid program offered and the level of confidence in American security.
Russiais has been taking a different approach to the anticipated security problems of the region, according to the Russian press. They are developing a strategy and war-gaming on it, to deal with an unspecific type of threat which is somewhere between militant Islamists and any &#8220;Arab spring&#8221; type of movement which might arise in the immediate future. The most obvious problem that is developing with both Eastern and Western strategies, is that all of the solutions are being developed piecemeal, out of separate components, based on separate treaties and security organizations that often don&#8217;t match-up. It is making it difficult to synchronize commitments already made by the separate states with developing plans to enhance security. Some governments belong to both East and West security organizations, meaning that they might belong to the same drug control regime, but be on different sides of the counter-terrorism issue.
Russian security solutions are being practiced with individual governments in the region, to develop a common concept of fighting future Islamist terror and popular uprisings. Kazakhstanparticipated in September&#8217;s Center-2011 Caspian exercises. Tajikistan has been named in next year&#8217;s Peace Mission-2012 exercise, which has been reportedly focused on the same missions inTajikistan&#8217;s mountainous terrain.
Sept. 9-26, the Russian army, joined byKazakhstan,TajikistanandKyrgyzstan, deployed 12,000 troops in a huge combined military exercise code-named Center-2011 which reportedly simulated an Iranian attack on Caspian oil fields. Two videos from those war games below:
&#1091;&#1095;&#1077;&#1085;&#1080;&#1103; &#1062;&#1045;&#1053;&#1058;&#1056;-2011.mp4, posted with vodpod
&#1057;&#1102;&#1078;&#1077;&#1090; &#8220;&#1062;&#1077;&#1085;&#1090;&#1088; 2011&#8243;, posted with vodpod
The Center-2011 Caspian war games were very significant because of the specific missions which were reported by the Russian press to have been practiced there. One practice mission was securing an undefinedCaspian Sea oil terminal from a military assault by approximately 70 aircraft from an unnamed air force, coming from the south. The games reportedly involved defendingKazakhstan&#8217;s Caspian Mangustanskoy field being developed by ExxonMobil in the northern Caspian. The map released to the press, which had been used in the exercise, looked remarkably like the Turkmen Cheleken Contract Area just south of there,Turkmenistan&#8217;s Caspian cash cow. See the similarities between the two graphics below:


In addition to the similarity of the two sites, the size of the Turkmen Air Force and the 70 operational fighter aircraft reported in the Center-2011 story are nearly the same. CouldRussiaandKazakhstanhave actually been practicing taking control of the Cheleken facility, but reported to the Russian press the Kazakh scenario?
The following report appeared in Eurasia.org on Nov. 22, Would Russia Go To War Over The Trans-Caspian Pipeline? Did this reporter&#8217;s speculation strike a nerve inTurkmenistan? Putin&#8217;sRussia has been very assertive since the Georgian war demonstratedRussia&#8217;s resolve to hold on to its special possessions in this vital region. The conflict that has been brewing withTurkmenistan may dwarf the Georgian actions. Disagreements with the Turkmen government have precipitated a media war, with Berdymukhamedov&#8217;s stubborn rejection of anything associated withRussia looking like a mutiny, a rebellion against Putin&#8217;s dreamed of Eurasian alliance.
The final straw forRussiamay have been Berdymukhamedov&#8217;s open promises to sign-on to the European trans-Caspian pipeline projects, which would have cost Gazprom andRussiaenormous losses of gas profits. This was unacceptable. The Turkmen President had to be made to understand exactly what he stood to lose by threateningRussia&#8217;s economic lifeline.
The day after the Caspian war story ran, Turkmen President Berdymukhamedov was in China, where he signed 14 agreements, among them, an agreement to double Turkmenestan&#8217;s pipeline exports to China (SEE: Turkmen in Gas Accord With China ).
He also signed 13 more bilateral agreements with Hu Jintao on securing loans for oil and gas equipment, collaborating on internal affairs, police training, anti-terrorism etc. The full range of the agreements is not yet known, but police and anti-terrorist training forTurkmenistan had already been contracted from theUS and NATO. It is unknown what effect the Chinese agreement will have upon such commitments already made to either NATO orRussia.
This new Chinadeal effectively sealed the fate of both European dream projects, Nabucco and the trans-Caspian project, in addition to negating a resumption of high Russian export levels. Turkmenistancould no longer promise such high production levels, no matter what they had previously claimed. In reality, Turkmenistanhas not yet managed to produce meet the halfway point in the projected 32 billion cubic meters a year required to fill that first pipeline. It may take an extended development period to consistently produce enough Turkmen gas for a second Chinese pipeline. There will be no available Turkmen gas to send to Europe, despite the rosy predictions made by the government and their British advisers (SEE: Turkmenistan: Ashgabat Energy-Reserve Controversy Continues to Flare ).
President Berdymukhamedov recently stated that the U.S. &#8220;has been and remains one of the strategic vectors of its foreign policy (SEE: Turkmenistan Hosts Meeting To Develop Action Plan For Implementing UN Global Counter-Terrorism Strategy; US and Turkmenistan to continue combating illegal narcotics). It is not often mentioned in the Western media, but the US has also been using the airport in Ashgabat for refueling aircraft, as well as the airport town of Mary and at least one other airport in the country, even though the northern distribution network land routes bypassTurkmenistan.
From all available evidence, it is reasonable to conclude that there will be no Turkmen participation in anything Russiahas planned. The same cannot be said of Tajikistan, where the201st motorized division of the Russian Army maintains its only base in the region, overriding any smaller issues like the recent Russian pilot arrest. The Tajik media has reported thatTajikistan has signed-on to next year&#8217;s SCO war games with the 201st, to develop a rapid reaction force.
This new military exercise inCentral Asiashows that Russian forces are honing their new Rapid Reaction Force, to be operational by the time of the American Afghan withdrawal in 2014. The coming Peace Mission-2012 represents the natural progression of the training acquired in the Center-2011 (&#8220;&#1062;&#1077;&#1085;&#1090;&#1088;-2011&#8243 Caspian war game exercise, which was conducted in September. We can expect to see more of these war games in the future, as Russian forces develop the concept of a quick reaction battalion, to intercept narco-terrorists, or to free villages overrun by unnamed forces.
Turkmenistanhas already invited NATO/US forces to help it in counter-terrorist, counter-narcotics, border control and policing efforts, even though the Turkmen leadership boasts loud and often about its &#8220;neutrality.&#8221;
Even though Uzbekistan is helping the US conduct its NDN (northern distribution network) enterprise in exchange for military aid and help with image modification, the Karimov government refuses to participate in any regional solution that has been put forth by either the US or Russia, even scuttling the US Istanbul agreement on Afghanistan.
Karimov will not support any security scenario that omits the Shanghai Cooperation Organization&#8217;s (SCO) Regional Anti-Terrorist Structure (RAT), which is based in Tashkent. A parallel law enforcement structure is being created there, to expedite terrorism suspects in the US model of operation. Moscow&#8217;s coalition building has so far been unable to overcome Karimov&#8217;s distrust of Putin, in order to bring him onboard, even though the SCO structure has been officially linked to the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) andUzbekistan is a member.
Karimov refuses to join in any collective security force andBelarusis leading a push to haveUzbekistanexpelled from the CSTO, unless it joins the security arrangement. This prevailing anti-Russian sentiment more or less ensures that no conceivable security arrangement will include all the national governments, creating a dangerous scenario where the CIS governments choose-up sides and take-up arms in opposition to each other. It may work out that the separate organizations can come together over the real threats and remain divided over the manufactured points of contention.
The new message emerging from the Russian press reports and manipulations of that news is that Putin is trying to pull together all of the remnants of theSoviet Unionthat he can influence, in his Eurasian Economic Union (EEU). Laying the economic groundwork for the massive organization effort, the Customs Union is the first stage of that planned reunion. War games to secure the resources of the member states suggest thatRussiaand its allies are prepared to use military force to hold onto assets. Widespread attacks by &#8220;Islamists&#8221; who suddenly emerge out of nowhere, or out of retirement, forcing recalcitrant governments to seek military assistance, suggest that the Kremlin may be giving them a nudge.
Against the temptation to side with Russiaover concerns about Islamists and revolutions, the Americans have also deployed their own, perhaps more attractive, economic/military package of incentives. In addition to the incessantly advertised Silk Road incentive package we have the promise of such things as the free military surplus weapons, Special Forces training centers and modern border control technology (SEE: Smashing Greater Central Asia &#8211;Part One).
Border control enhancement in the Central Asian states is one area of Western penetration into the national security structure of all of the Stan governments. The EUand the UN build and remodel border control facilities for the individual governments to run, while the US and NATO provide the expertise and technical means to control borders in the face of determined smugglers and terrorists, who are hell-bent on conducting their deadly trade across normally porous borders.
In the war to &#8220;Smash Greater Central Asia,&#8221; the great game is being played-out as a massive psywar, with both sides using the same covert tactics to produce opposite results. The secret war is on, for the hearts and souls of individual nations and individual tribes, who are looking for economic roads out of the remnants of the massive Gulag state and the crumbling industrial base that has been left in its wake. An interesting, though often overlooked, fact about the former Soviet empire is the wreckage that has been left behind in the crumbling infrastructure of roads, factories, pipelines, water and electrical transmission systems. All of these former life-giving arteries of the Soviet industrial state have been milked of their usefulness to the economically starved CIS countries, having surpassed their expiration dates and started to crumble. Repairing these systems may be more difficult and more costly than simply replacing them with brand new systems.
All of the former communist satellite countries are looking to the community of nations for help in overcoming these obstacles to economic growth, no matter whether that help is offered by the Western democracies or by a Gazprom-energized Russian economic union. The objective of the psywar against these CIS countries is to gain the loyalties of the individual governments in a bidding war for the least costly solutions available to the Center. The importance of co-opting each government means that those nations which cannot be tricked into giving their loyalty will be bought, if possible, if not, then the military option remains open.
The issue of &#8220;human rights&#8221; is overlooked by Western diplomats when they are trying to legitimize their interaction with the dictatorships of Central Asia, such as Islam Karimov, but it becomes a weapon when it comes to other, less vital governments. Human rights becomes a useful issue for bashing unfriendly dictatorships. It has been used too often in this hypocritical manner to be very effective any more. The two-faced method for deploying the human rights issue serves to delegitimize the idea of democratic rights for all, which must form the foundation of any democracy movement. In September, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton commended Karimov for &#8220;progress&#8221; on human rights and traveled to Tashkent in October to thank the dictator in person for his cooperation. In Turkmenistan, Berdimuhamedov no longer feels obligated to listen to the comments of the West on human rights.
We have worn-out our welcome inCentral Asia, before we really got our foot in the door. It is a bad idea to squander all of your good will, especially at the same time that you are wearing out your economic appeal. Interfering in the internal Russian electoral process is also not a good example to set if you plan to encourage dictatorships to be more lenient on human rights. If you cannot get your foot in the door and you cannot even gain observer status, your plans may be left out in the cold as well. The ultimate solution forCentral Asiamay be whatever defense Russian leaders can organize to stop US State Dept. and CIA subversion. The governments siding withRussiamay have already figured that out.


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## A.Rafay

*The new redrawn map is here Now*


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## Zabaniyah

> WHO WINS, WHO LOSES
> 
> Winners 
> 
> Afghanistan
> 
> Arab Shia State
> 
> Armenia
> 
> Azerbaijan
> 
> Free Baluchistan
> 
> Free Kurdistan
> 
> Iran
> 
> Islamic Sacred State
> 
> Jordan
> 
> Lebanon
> 
> Yemen
> 
> 
> 
> Losers 
> 
> Afghanistan
> 
> Iran
> 
> Iraq
> 
> Israel
> 
> Kuwait
> 
> Pakistan
> 
> Qatar
> 
> Saudi Arabia
> 
> Syria
> 
> Turkey
> 
> United Arab Emirates
> 
> West Bank


Blood borders - June 2006 - Armed Forces Journal - Military Strategy, Global Defense Strategy

LOL...whoever made this is either stupid or a troll.


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## PakShah

The map is unrealistic trash.

How could justify such nonsense?

Just a neo-con's/zionist's/crusader's fantasy.

This is probably what they want, and their dream must be resisted at all costs.


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## sarthak

yarmook said:


> why dont they cut india on ethnice basis carving tamil state out of south india and northern srilanka why dont they carve out state of begal joining east indian bengal with bangladesh
> 
> they are full of r a t - s h i t thats it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Well , that's because Tamil Nadu and Bengal are not fighting for independence. Makes sense?

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## asad71

1. If wishes were horses - - - 

2. About time we saw a redrawn map of the Zionist States of America and Canada.UK is to shrink soon with the Scots opting out.


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## Tshering22

PakShah said:


> The map is unrealistic trash.
> 
> How could justify such nonsense?
> 
> Just a neo-con's/zionist's/crusader's fantasy.
> 
> This is probably what they want, and their dream must be resisted at all costs.



So tell me; would Pakistan be willing to fight to end against the US if this map they plan as you say, is tried out? Would your government be willing to fight an all-out war against the US and NATO?


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## Zabaniyah

Tshering22 said:


> So tell me; would Pakistan be willing to fight to end against the US if this map they plan as you say, is tried out? *Would your government be willing to fight an all-out war against the US and NATO?*



What for exactly?


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## nForce

Srirangan said:


> From: Blood borders - June 2006 - Armed Forces Journal - Military Strategy, Global Defense Strategy



thats the perfect recipe for 3rd world war you are looking at.The situation in this region is deteriorating so fast that I think I will get too this event within my life time afterall.


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## A.Rafay

nForce said:


> thats the perfect recipe for 3rd world war you are looking at.The situation in this region is deteriorating so fast that I think I will get too this event within my life time afterall.



*YOu Are Wrong It will happen like This*

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## Armstrong

A.Rafay said:


> *YOu Are Wrong It will happen like This*



Oh terii keeehhh ! I don't want such an ugly arse Pakistan ! The current one has a beautiful shape as it...don't want any Afghan, Indian or Iranian land except Kashmir.


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## Zabaniyah

Where's Bangladesh?


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## Wickerman

Zabaniya said:


> Where's Bangladesh?



You gotta scroll right


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## A.Rafay

Wickerman said:


> You gotta scroll right



It aint scrolling right, its eaten!!


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## lightoftruth

drawing contest ?

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## A.Rafay

Armstrong said:


> Oh terii keeehhh ! I don't want such an ugly arse Pakistan ! The current one has a beautiful shape as it...don't want any Afghan, Indian or Iranian land except Kashmir.



Yeah previous one looked like lion ready to eat anyone!


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## muslim282

The USA should worry about N-Korea redrawing it,s lines.
The map it proposes of pakistan could be a possibility, BUT and thats a BIG BUT it needs to show the rest of bharat maata as a radioactive waste pit, with no human or plant life.


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## Kamikaze Pilot

Srirangan said:


> Redrawn map for Muslim world


Thanks for a moment of fantasy.


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## Kamikaze Pilot

RAPTOR said:


> I wonder what the future map of bharat/hindustan will look like. I can see at least 30 different princely states being carved out of that artificial and unatural country.


Who are you? White American or Pakistani-American?


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## The SiLent crY

Srirangan said:


> From: Blood borders - June 2006 - Armed Forces Journal - Military Strategy, Global Defense Strategy



The guy created this fictional map knows sh-it about history and Persia .

We prefer this for Persia :






cos Persia is land of different races ( even Iran has dozens of different cultures and races )

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## Abu Zolfiqar

do people get paid to come up with this stuff or was this some interns with too much time on their hands?

i'll have to print this out just for a few good laughs

oh and by the way, thanks to whoever rejuvenated an over 6 and a half year old thread!


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## Jf Thunder

blow up everyone in the world except Pakistan, let loose all of the nukes :p


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## Izhar Ahmed Khan

Who is formulating American policies and it's reflection in the world...... Point to ponder


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## MA Soomro

Time must be very close that world will see greater unified muslim state and so map for Muslim world will be redrawn.


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## T90TankGuy

Are you guys crazy? this is a 8 yr old thread.


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