# Bangladesh-Pakistan Defence Relations



## leonblack08

* BD shows interest in defence equipment*


BD shows interest in defence equipment -DAWN - Top Stories; October 22, 2008

By Iftikhar A. Khan


ISLAMABAD, Oct 21: The visiting army chief of Bangladesh, Gen Moeen U. Ahmed, has expressed interest in purchasing military equipment from Pakistan and sought the countrys assistance in upgrading a fleet of T-59 tanks through a joint venture.

He met the Joint Chiefs of the Staff Committee Chairman, Gen Tariq Majid, on Tuesday.

The Bangladeshs army chief, who is here on a six-day official visit, also held meetings with Chief of the Army Staff Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani and Defence Minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar.

During his meeting with the JCSC chairman, he showed interest in obtaining assistance in the overhauling of Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) aircraft, holding of Special Forces joint exercises with Pakistan and the purchase of communications equipment.

Gen Moeen also proposed to exchange instructors at the staff college level on mutual basis. He exchanged views focusing on matters of mutual interest, regional security and enhancement of defence ties.

Gen Tariq Majid highlighted the importance of special relations that exist between the two countries, which are characterised by religious affinity and commonality of views.

Both expressed satisfaction on the present level of military cooperation and stressed to further enhance the ties by holding joint training exercises, courses, joint venture in defence production and purchase of defence equipment.

Gen Majid said that Pakistan and Bangladesh share common perception on regional and international issues and emphasised the need to enhance common efforts and cooperation to further develop upon common objectives.

Gen Moeen U Ahmed visited the General Headquarters and called on Chief of the Army Staff General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani.

Both sides agreed to enhance their existing level of defence relationship.

They also discussed strategic issues to develop common understanding.

On arrival at the General Headquarters, General Moeen U Ahmed was presented a guard of honour. He reviewed the parade and took salute from smartly turned out contingent of the Pakistan Army.

During his meeting with the defence minister, the two sides expressed the desire to intensify bilateral cooperation in the area of defence.

The meeting exchanged views on various aspects of defence cooperation and underscored the need for enhanced interaction between the armed forces of the two countries, besides promoting people-to-people contacts between the two Muslim countries.

The minister briefed Gen Moeen about the potential of the defence industry of Pakistan.

He highlighted the combat capability of JF-17 Thunder Aircraft, Al-Khalid and Al-Zarrar tanks.

It was agreed to increase exchanges at different levels and strengthen the existing linkage for mutual benefits of the two sides.

The minister apprised visiting dignitary about recently concluded visit of President Asif Ali Zardari to China.

He said the visit proved highly fruitful and successful, because China- an all weather friend of Pakistan- signed agreements and Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) with Pakistan to strengthen strategic partnership, reinforce multi-faceted relations and intensify economic, trade and defence cooperation.

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## leonblack08

*Bangladesh likely to purchase military equipments from Pak
*
Islamabad, Oct 22: Bangladesh has expressed interest in purchasing military equipments from Pakistan and sought Islamabad's assistance for refurbishing its fleet of T-59 tanks.

Visiting Bangladesh Army chief, General Moeen U Ahmed, conveyed his country's interest in acquiring military equipments and cooperation in other areas during a meeting yesterday with General Tariq Majid, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Committee.

Ahmed, who is on a six-day official visit to Pakistan, exchanged views with Majid on matters of mutual interest, regional security and enhancement of defence ties, said a statement from the Inter-Services Public Relations.

He asked for Pakistan's assistance for upgrading Bangladesh's fleet of T-59 tanks through a joint venture and showed interest in obtaining aid in overhauling the aircraft of the Bangladesh Air Force.

Ahmed also expressed interest in holding joint exercises of Special Forces of the two countries and the purchase of communication equipment. He also proposed the exchange of instructors from the Staff Colleges of Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Majid "highlighted the importance of special relations that exist between Pakistan and Bangladesh, which are characterised by religious affinity and commonality of views", the statement said.

The two Generals expressed satisfaction at the current level of military cooperation between the two countries and stressed the need to "further enhance these ties by holding joint training exercises, training courses, joint venture in defence production and purchase of defence equipment".

Ahmed also met Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani yesterday. Both Generals agreed to enhance the defence relationship between the two countries and discussed strategic issues.

Bangladesh military equipments Pak

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## Imran Khan

i think our releations with BD are ok.same like any other muslim nation .need some improve but even without impove its ok not bad.


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## leonblack08

Rawalpindi , October 21: General Moeen U Ahmed, Chief of Army Staff Bangladesh Army who is on a six day official visit to Pakistan, visited General Headquarters today and called on the Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. Both sides agreed to enhance their existing level of defence relationship. They also discussed strategic issues to develop common understanding.
Earlier, on arrival at General Headquarters, General Moeen U Ahmed was presented a guard of honour. He reviewed the parade and took salute from the smartly turned out contingent of Pakistan Army.

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## leonblack08

Here is a little summary by Mr.BdMilitary(he runs another forum)

Joint Special Forces Exercise

All sides can benefit from joint Special Forces exercises by taking advantage of each other countries varied environment.

- Bangladesh is building a very large Jungle Warfare School and Navy SEAL training centre in Chittagong area
- We discussed about Paracommando Battalion members training with the Special Services Group of Pakistan. They can obviously learn high-altitude diving from the SSG, as Bangladesh has not trained its forces to do so locally.

Joint Production of Military Equipment

- The Bangladesh Navy has a huge project to build dozens of fast attack craft of 200 to 300 ton weight. The Pakistani-side are keen on the joint venture in Khulna Ship Yard but they will face competition from Turkish and Malay companies too.
- Bangladesh needs to upgrade 300 Type 59 MBTs to become effective combat assets and discussion has been ongoing with the Pakistani counterparts at HIT to transfer technology for local production of Al Zarrar tank components at the Bangladesh Army's Heavy Workshop, which is capable of building tanks, APCs and artillery systems apart from upgrading them.
- Pakistan is the primary ATGM supplier to the Bangladesh Army. It has supplied hundreds of Baktar Shikan (HJ-8) ATGM launchers each year. The reason the BA is procuring from the Pakistani company is that it is a cheaper alternative to exactly the same ATGM manufactured in China. Room exists for establishing an ATGM plant in the Bangladesh Ordnance Factory - I personally know that they have a plan to do this.

Procurement of Defence Hardware

- The Bangladesh Army chief has shown interest is procuring communications systems from Pakistan though it currently uses American and South African systems. No further details are available regarding this procurement.

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## Imran Khan

After enduring two decades of international arms embargo, Pakistan is set to emerge as one of the most active new players in the $3 trillion world arms market.

Its arms export last year amounted to $200 million - a small sum in comparison to the US and Russia, nonetheless a huge earning for Pakistan considering that the arms sanction against it was lifted just five years ago.

The sanction was imposed by the US and its European allies to punish Pakistan for embarking on its nuclear weapons programme.

However, following the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center and Pakistan's support for the US-led war on terrorism, the US has designated the populous Muslim nation as a major non-NATO ally - one of the few Muslim countries to be accorded the privilege.

The designation meant that Pakistan now has access to weapons, from aircraft to missiles, which were denied to it five years ago.

During the period of embargo, Pakistan turned to its long-time ally, China for cooperation in arms trade, which according to defence experts, was limited to conventional weapons only.

However, with its "new status" in the world arms market, Pakistan's arms exhibition, International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) 2006, is being viewed as one of the leading defence events in the South Asia region.

A total of 231 companies, including those from the US, Europe, Russia and China took part in the four-day event which showcased five long-range surface-to-surface missiles, in service with the Pakistan Army Strategic Forces Command (ASFC)

Among the missiles were the intermediate range ballistic missiles, the Ghauri and Shaheen II. The Ghauri has a 1,500 km range, and the Shaheen II, 2,000 km.

On November 16, witnessed by Pakistan Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz, a Ghauri missile was test fired from an unspecified location.

Pakistan has neither confirmed nor denied that its ballistic missiles are capable of carrying nuclear warheads.

Growing Export Market

Pakistan is exporting arms and munitions to 50 Asian and Europeans countries, the US, UK and New Zealand.

Its sales are not limited to small arms and ammunition; they also included big-ticket items, such as the Super Mushak training aircraft to Middle East, *gunboats to Bangladesh *and man portable air defence missiles to Malaysia.

These sales have wetted Pakistan's appetite to further penetrate the international arms market.

It recently demonstrated the capability of its Al-Khalid main battle tank (MBT) in Saudi Arabia with a hope to clinch a deal for the sale of 150 tanks to beef up the Kingdom's defence forces.

The Al-Khalid MBT, manufactured by Pakistan's Heavy Industries Taxila, was the result of Pakistan-China collaboration.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/7598_1852427,000500020000.htm


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## leonblack08

BD-PAK troops together in UN Missions:

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## Imran Khan




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## leonblack08

*Bangladesh and Pakistan to jointly build warships*

In a major step forward for military to military cooperation Bangladesh and Pakistan are set to jointly build advanced missile armed warships.

Authorities of the Khulna Shipyard and Karachi Shipyard are cooperating with each other to build anti-ship missile armed, high speed attack vessels known as &#8220;Fast Attack Craft&#8221; according to anonymous sources in the Bangladesh military.

Specifications

Displacement: 250~300 tons
Complement: 35
Anti-Ship Missiles: 4 x C802 launchers
Main Gun: Twin Anti-Aircraft Gun
Radar: Fire Control Radar
Maximum Speed: 32 knots
Made in: Khulna (Bangladesh)

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## leonblack08



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## TopCat

> In a major step forward for military to military cooperation Bangladesh and Pakistan are set to jointly build advanced missile armed warships.


all the posts here are from very unreliable source like zee news. Not from any bangladeshi or from any pakistani media. 
Why does Bangladesh need to a co-operation in building those small speed boats with chinese c-802. Bangladesh can build frigates....


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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> all the posts here are from very unreliable source like zee news. Not from any bangladeshi or from any pakistani media.
> Why does Bangladesh need to a co-operation in building those small speed boats with chinese c-802. Bangladesh can build frigates....



its your nationalism i respect but facts will never change by emotions.bangladesh is not a such power to make fregates or missles.and most important qes is for what.can you see the list of frigetes makers ??????

relible sorce of BD MILITRY BUDGET.if you like see please in that money what can you do ???????????


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## leonblack08

iajdani said:


> all the posts here are from very unreliable source like zee news. Not from any bangladeshi or from any pakistani media.
> Why does Bangladesh need to a co-operation in building those small speed boats with chinese c-802. Bangladesh can build frigates....




Its all over Pakistani media for example DAWN.
Do you know,these similar "*small boats*" scared the British sailors in Iran??Don't forget that.
Bangladesh does build cargo ships,But not sure if we are capable of building frigates.
c-802 can be considered as the best anti-ship missile,in USA they call it Harpoon.The missile has strong anti-jamming capabilities with success rate of 98%.So you see brother,these "*small boats*" are not *"TOYS".*


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## Imran Khan

bangladesh spends $840 million,per year its whole defence budget and now you can see what shuld shere of new waipens i think more then 200mn for new waipens for all forces.its mean BD need some small but very efective waipens with cost efective.not to buaild frigetes or distroyers.


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## TopCat

imran khan said:


> its your nationalism i respect but facts will never change by emotions.bangladesh is not a such power to make fregates or missles.and most important qes is for what.can you see the list of frigetes makers ??????
> 
> relible sorce of BD MILITRY BUDGET.if you like see please in that money what can you do ???????????



Well, in case of money.. I think BD economy is as big as PAK economy. If Bangladesh diverts some of the money from its social project.. it can build an army as stronger as PAK army, it should not be a problem. But the fact is, Bangladesh army is as big as its economic ratio. It is not inflated like Indian or Pakistani army. It is growing as our economy grows without putting too much strain on our economy. Yes Bangladesh could build Frigates and one of our private ship builder already refurbished one of the frigates and they are pursuing GOB to get some orders in building Navy vessels. You have to import high tech electronics, radar and guidance system. None of the south asian countries have that capabilities to build state of the art system anyways.

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## Imran Khan

we beleve facts not emotions.fact is clear BD no need to pay much more money for its defence these ongoing policy is good save money for develpment and pay also some for defence we clearly see BD is not intrested in heavy waipens systems because its needs.one should pay money if forces need that.BD have risk from MYM and i am 100&#37; shore they can handle them.


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## z9-ec

iajdani said:


> Well, in case of money.. *I think BD economy is as big as PAK economy.* If Bangladesh diverts some of the money from its social project.. it can build an army as stronger as PAK army, it should not be a problem. But the fact is, Bangladesh army is as big as its economic ratio. It is not inflated like Indian or Pakistani army. It is growing as our economy grows without putting too much strain on our economy. Yes Bangladesh could build Frigates and one of our private ship builder already refurbished one of the frigates and they are pursuing GOB to get some orders in building Navy vessels. You have to import high tech electronics, radar and guidance system. None of the south asian countries have that capabilities to build state of the art system anyways.



With all due respect, I would like to enlighten your economic statistics a bit. Please do some research before commencing an argument.

Pakistan's GDP [Purchase Power Parity] is $475 billion USD.

Bangladesh GDP [PPP] $206 billion USD.

Pakistan GDP per capita is $1045

Bangladesh GDP per capita $550

We are all in favor of a stronger BD force then its current state.


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## leonblack08

iajdani said:


> Well, in case of money.. I think BD economy is as big as PAK economy. If Bangladesh diverts some of the money from its social project.. it can build an army as stronger as PAK army, it should not be a problem. But the fact is, Bangladesh army is as big as its economic ratio. It is not inflated like Indian or Pakistani army. It is growing as our economy grows without putting too much strain on our economy. Yes Bangladesh could build Frigates and one of our private ship builder already refurbished one of the frigates and they are pursuing GOB to get some orders in building Navy vessels. You have to import high tech electronics, radar and guidance system. None of the south asian countries have that capabilities to build state of the art system anyways.



Thnx for the information,but the problem is BD spends least in military among south asian nations,as a percentage of GDP.Not to mention corruption,which is stopping us from being a strong and developed nation.


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## Imran Khan

Budget expenditures 2007
Data source: 2007 CIA World Factbook

View this list in Alphabetic order View this list in alphabetic order View this list in alphabetic order
1 United States	$2,660,000,000,000
2 Japan	$1,639,000,000,000
3 Germany	$1,344,000,000,000
4 France	$1,211,000,000,000
5 United Kingdom	$1,040,000,000,000
6 Italy	$925,000,000,000
7 China	$489,600,000,000
8 Spain	$475,300,000,000
9 Netherlands	$306,500,000,000
10 Australia	$258,000,000,000
11 Sweden	$210,500,000,000
12 Korea, South	$209,500,000,000
13 Mexico	$196,200,000,000
14 Belgium	$195,500,000,000
15 Canada	$181,800,000,000
16 Brazil	$172,400,000,000
17 Austria	$161,600,000,000
18 Russia	$157,300,000,000
19 India	$143,800,000,000
20 Switzerland	$139,100,000,000
21 Denmark	$138,900,000,000
22 Norway	$133,100,000,000
23 Turkey	$121,600,000,000
24 Saudi Arabia	$107,600,000,000
25 Greece	$106,700,000,000
26 Finland	$101,000,000,000
27 Iran	$100,600,000,000
28 Portugal	$93,090,000,000
29 Indonesia	$79,450,000,000
30 Taiwan	$77,930,000,000
31 South Africa	$75,930,000,000
32 Ireland	$73,050,000,000
33 Poland	$71,250,000,000
34 Czech Republic	$62,530,000,000
35 Hungary	$59,620,000,000
36 Venezuela	$52,900,000,000
37 Colombia	$52,290,000,000
38 Israel	$49,570,000,000
39 Algeria	$49,140,000,000
40 Argentina	$47,600,000,000
41 Thailand	$40,340,000,000
42 Romania	$39,100,000,000
43 Malaysia	$37,000,000,000
44 New Zealand	$36,990,000,000
45 United Arab Emirates	$36,890,000,000
46 Cuba	$36,410,000,000
47 Ukraine	$35,600,000,000
48 Iraq	$34,600,000,000
49 Kuwait	$33,620,000,000
50 Hong Kong	$33,020,000,000
51 Egypt	$31,830,000,000
52 Chile	$26,680,000,000
53 Slovakia	$26,140,000,000
* 54 Pakistan	$25,650,000,000*
55 Peru	$25,180,000,000
56 Philippines	$21,380,000,000
57 Morocco	$20,390,000,000
58 Singapore	$19,850,000,000
59 Luxembourg	$19,790,000,000
60 Libya	$19,300,000,000
61 Croatia	$19,060,000,000
62 Nigeria	$19,050,000,000
63 Kazakhstan	$18,090,000,000
64 Qatar	$16,890,000,000
65 Vietnam	$16,630,000,000
66 Slovenia	$16,350,000,000
67 Oman	$12,810,000,000
68 Bulgaria	$12,160,000,000
69 Serbia	$11,120,000,000
70 Ecuador	$10,460,000,000
71 Sudan	$10,100,000,000
72 Lithuania	$9,761,000,000
73 Angola	$9,700,000,000
74 Puerto Rico	$9,600,000,000
75 Syria	$9,420,000,000
76 Tunisia	$8,734,000,000
* 77 Bangladesh	$8,694,000,000*


Budget expenditures 2007 country rankings - Flags, Maps, Economy, Geography, Climate, Natural Resources, Current Issues, International Agreements, Population, Social Statistics, Political System


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## TopCat

z9-ec said:


> With all due respect, I would like to enlighten your economic statistics a bit. Please do some research before commencing an argument.
> 
> Pakistan's GDP [Purchase Power Parity] is $475 billion USD.
> 
> Bangladesh GDP [PPP] $206 billion USD.
> 
> Pakistan GDP per capita is $1045
> 
> Bangladesh GDP per capita $550
> 
> We are all in favor of a stronger BD force then its current state.



These figure does not... really reflect a true economic strength of a country. This figure only shows both Pakistan and Bangladesh are extremely poor nation.
You have to go back to 2002 economic figure. Let say Bangladesh did not exist that time. Pakistan economic data was as good as this one in 2002, and look at your army at that time sitting on top of a nuke bomb. Does that say anything? Does Bangladesh built an army as big as Pakistan as it did existed in 2002.

I dont want to mention how the economy of pakistan inflated for the last six years.. to give some credits to pakistani people. You will find that out in next 5 years when there is a big possibility that BD economy will surpass PAK economy.

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## z9-ec

The gross domestic product (GDP) or gross domestic income (GDI) is one of the measures of national income and output for a given country's economy. GDP is defined as the total market value of all final goods and services produced within the country in a given period of time (usually a calendar year). It is also considered the sum of a value added at every stage of production (the intermediate stages) of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given period of time, and it is given a money value.

The figures I have mentioned are nominal values of per capita 

Pakistan GDP PPP per capita is $3380 USD


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## Imran Khan

> You will find that out in next 5 years when there is a big possibility that BD economy will surpass PAK economy.



my brother wich world you live????? we just figere out whats going on in bd defence.its same as our indian nighbers dreaming there peoples in 2020 2030 2040 please see today see what we achive last few years and can you please provide some sold info what is that magic stick you use next few years.check next few years bd papultion were go powerty were will be if you see past BD was better then today in 80s 90s.i never wana hart your nationalism but you become over nationalst.we all love our lands but we see true also.i can say next few years our arms exports boom same like boom until today from 2000 when we start export ars.i can say next few years our power shortige and enerjy needs will fill because we already working on big dams.i can say next few years our coal production will increase and oil imports will less.i can say next few years war on terarr will finish then no more losess of money on this war.i can gwader port will start receve heavy ships from next few months then become boom on trade with center asia.now can you please provide me some on graund info


or as you say before

bangladesh have 16 mig29 because inter sorces say this news can some one beleve this chaildsh claim 

when bd get these from were they get ?

who pay these secret money?
and india was sleeping that time?
please be a realstic these kind of claims show that you don't know any thing

sorry

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## z9-ec

iajdani said:


> Still it is shamefully poor...



Indeed, there is always the need to improve economic conditions in South Asia. We are developing nations. Mind you, Pakistan is not in recession, our GDP is set to grow 5-6&#37; this year despite the prevailing situation.

Enhanced trade between South Asia including Bangladesh and Pakistan will likely boost our economies and eventually improve our living standards.


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## TopCat

> now you troling and insulting the nation becasuse you don't have prooves of your claim .its not only you most of people like you when can't answer then abuse


sorry, if it projected any negative impression.. I was not saying YOU.. but saying WE.


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## TopCat

> ts same as our indian nighbers dreaming there peoples in 2020 2030 2040 please see today see what we achive last few years and can you please provide some sold info what is that magic stick you use next few years.



That is the main strength of BD economy as there is no magic stick to do that. The coming finance minister who was talking to an interview said it will take another 3/4 years to take 6.5&#37; growth rate of Bangladesh to 8% growth rate and will take up to year 2017 to get this up and running in 10% growth and sustained. 
We did not have a beautiful morning when we woke up see that 2/3% growth rate of an economy becomes in 8% pace and just booming. 
Economy has to grow from within itself which can be sustainable and all the machinery within itself should coup with the growth. But this is an economic subject and a subject of my own interest.. dont want to bore you...


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## Imran Khan

its more then dreams i thing i weste my time


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## z9-ec

I must also mention that the Bangladesh economy has also shown tremendous resilience and is also set to grow 6-7&#37; this year despite the global financial crunch which I must commend as an observer.


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## BanglaBhoot

What the hell is this? Why are we wasting our time comparing our economy and military with that of Pakistan? Our problem is with India and our military needs should be based on that assumption. If we develop military cooperation with Pakistan then Alhumdullilah and let the Indians worry about it. Why are you doing the worrying for the Indians?

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## z9-ec

MBI Munshi said:


> What the hell is this? Why are we wasting our time comparing our economy and military with that of Pakistan? Our problem is with India and our military needs should be based on that assumption. If we develop military cooperation with Pakistan then Alhumdullilah and let the Indians worry about it. Why are you doing the worrying for the Indians?



I completely agree with you. We should rather learn from each other and protect our interests from common adversaries.


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## Imran Khan

you can see this thread start from BD PAK releations and one of your guy move it on BD vs PAK 

its not good


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## ajpirzada

to my bangladeshi brothers..... if ur economy surpases pak economy ill be glad.... u r a muslim country and u were the people who played a key role in the creation of pakistan.... i can assure u that none of the pakistani will feel jealous if bangladesh economy booms rather we will be happy that a muslim country which was only created few dacades back have shown such great comeback..... 
lets not compete with each other rather cooperate and help each other in moving ahead...... lets be united coz that is wat the muslim world is lackin today despite having all the resources.....


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## BanglaBhoot

ajpirzada said:


> to my bangladeshi brothers..... if ur economy surpases pak economy ill be glad.... u r a muslim country and u were the people who played a key role in the creation of pakistan.... i can assure u that none of the pakistani will feel jealous if bangladesh economy booms rather we will be happy that a muslim country which was only created few dacades back have shown such great comeback.....
> lets not compete with each other rather cooperate and help each other in moving ahead...... lets be united coz that is wat the muslim world is lackin today despite having all the resources.....



I see no point in having a rivalry or competition with Pakistan since our primary concern from a military perspective is with India. I think we would be better served by trying to find ways of complimenting each other so that India does not become an overwhelming threat in the region. 

I think you will find trolls everywhere. Better to ignore them since they will continue to to create trouble and misunderstanding. Most Bangladeshis would like to see better relations with Pakistan but there are always some putting obstacles in the way.

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## Kharian_Beast

BD is in fact going to be buying lots of goodies from Pakistan in the coming years. I foresee JF-17 on top of T-59 project (which actually means they will be buying Zarrar with ToT) and they are interested in our missiles.


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## Al-zakir

MBI Munshi said:


> What the hell is this? Why are we wasting our time comparing our economy and military with that of Pakistan? Our problem is with India and our military needs should be based on that assumption. If we develop military cooperation with Pakistan then Alhumdullilah and let the Indians worry about it. Why are you doing the worrying for the Indians?



I agree with you. Some of our brothers boiling their blood for no god damn reason. Unwanted blood pressure and lost of energy. Our enemy will be realy happy to see this garbage. There is no need to campare between pak-bangla rather, we should work together and use our resources to improve and protect the lives of our people from a common enemy. 

When are we going to get it?? come on........

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## Jihad

imran khan said:


> you can see this thread start from BD PAK releations and one of your guy move it on BD vs PAK
> 
> its not good


Unfortunately, that's what I picked up aswell from some posts in this thread.
It's in both nations interest to maintain good relations with eachother and to work together on all fronts, especially economically and militarily.
After all, Bangladesh, together with Pakistan, is a N11 country.
There is no use in bragging which country has the biggest economy or which country has the most....etc.
Fact is, both Bangladesh and Pakistan are 3rd world countries, have plenty of domestic and foreign problems that need to be dealt with, and Inshallah, everything will be dealt with accordingly.
It's a good sign to see Bangladesh pursuing Pakistani weapons/hardware.
We should all encourage further deals between our countries..

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## jehangirhaider

I think Pakistan and Bangladesh should have a strategic alliance based on economic and defence cooperation,same foreign policy and security pact in which in case of war both will fight together.
I know yet this not possible, but i have a dream,this will be InshaAllah soon...
Nothing is impossible...

Considering rapid global threat to economy,security and resources and specially regional situation this can be happened....

So whenever tension on Bangladesh border, Pakistan will deploy own forces to decrease the tension and attention of enemy forces from Bangladesh side,in same manner Bangladesh will do for Pakistan.So enemy will face two fronts..
Now a days one country can not completely rely on his forces, even USA requires NATO,
We are Muslims,our ally is same, i means china,most of our strategic interests are same.
We will give them nuclear umbrella also...
so why not to form a strong strategic alliance.EU can get together why not we..
People know better EU states difference and their war history,but they are united for a security....why not we

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## BanglaBhoot

jehangirhaider said:


> I think Pakistan and Bangladesh should have a strategic alliance based on economic and defence cooperation,same foreign policy and security pact in which in case of war both will fight together.
> I know yet this not possible, but i have a dream,this will be InshaAllah soon...
> Nothing is impossible...
> 
> Considering rapid global threat to economy,security and resources and specially regional situation this can be happened....
> 
> So whenever tension on Bangladesh border, Pakistan will deploy own forces to decrease the tension and attention of enemy forces from Bangladesh side,in same manner Bangladesh will do for Pakistan.So enemy will face two fronts..
> Now a days one country can not completely rely on his forces, even USA requires NATO,
> We are Muslims,our ally is same, i means china,most of our strategic interests are same.
> We will give them nuclear umbrella also...
> so why not to form a strong strategic alliance.EU can get together why not we..
> People know better EU states difference and their war history,but they are united for a security....why not we



It is this dream that is causing fear in India and that is why their agents are destabilize our two countries. InshaAllah we will nevertheless have more cooperation between our countries and defeat these conspiracies.


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## leonblack08

Oh ALAAH!!!
I started this thread regarding BD-PAK defence relations,so please comment on this matter only.
Anyways HAPPY VICTORY DAY to all Bangladeshi brothers!!!


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## s90

There is no competition here just two natural allies helping eachother ,do Bangalis here know that Pakistani state television show Bangladeshi timings also


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## Imran Khan

today 16 dec hahahahaha not allowed any bangladeshi here just joke


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## SurvivoR

MBI Munshi said:


> What the hell is this? Why are we wasting our time comparing our economy and military with that of Pakistan? Our problem is with India and our military needs should be based on that assumption. If we develop military cooperation with Pakistan then Alhumdullilah and let the Indians worry about it. Why are you doing the worrying for the Indians?



I agree with you why we are comparing the economies and Pakistan, Bangladesh. The topic is about defence ties between these two nations. 

It is ideal time for Bangladesh and Pakistan to ensure maximum cooperation in terms of defence deals.


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## ajpirzada

jehangirhaider said:


> I think Pakistan and Bangladesh should have a strategic alliance based on economic and defence cooperation,same foreign policy and security pact in which in case of war both will fight together.
> I know yet this not possible, but i have a dream,this will be InshaAllah soon...
> Nothing is impossible...
> 
> Considering rapid global threat to economy,security and resources and specially regional situation this can be happened....
> 
> So whenever tension on Bangladesh border, Pakistan will deploy own forces to decrease the tension and attention of enemy forces from Bangladesh side,in same manner Bangladesh will do for Pakistan.So enemy will face two fronts..
> Now a days one country can not completely rely on his forces, even USA requires NATO,
> We are Muslims,our ally is same, i means china,most of our strategic interests are same.
> We will give them nuclear umbrella also...
> so why not to form a strong strategic alliance.EU can get together why not we..
> People know better EU states difference and their war history,but they are united for a security....why not we



i was reading an article sometime back which actually said there is a block in bangladesh which wants that to happen. *Munshi bhai *can u please tell us how true is this....


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## ajpirzada

leonblack08 said:


> Oh ALAAH!!!
> I started this thread regarding BD-PAK defence relations,so please comment on this matter only.
> Anyways HAPPY VICTORY DAY to all Bangladeshi brothers!!!



happy victory day bro.....


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## leonblack08

ajpirzada said:


> happy victory day bro.....




Thanx brother!!!


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## Imran Khan

leonblack08 said:


> Thanx brother!!!



were is sweets i know you guys save money


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## leonblack08

*bangladesh have 16 mig29 because inter sorces say this news can some one beleve this chaildsh claim

when bd get these from were they get ?

who pay these secret money?
and india was sleeping that time?
please be a realstic these kind of claims show that you don't know any thing

sorry*


Well it was me who made the claim.Check this website:

Search :: Orders & Contracts

Initial order was for 24 Migs,but 8 were delivered at 1999 and rest of 8,whose presence is unofficial was delivered at 2001.BD is secretive about its arms procurement,thats why the rest 8 was not officially disclosed.It may be possible the latter ones were assembled in BD which falls into BDmilitary's capability.

Now look at the picture and the hanger number:


If you still don't believe,it is not my problem.

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## leonblack08

imran khan said:


> were is sweets i know you guys save money


 Hey man,we are not from Kolkata
what about some drink???


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## Imran Khan

> If you still don't believe,it is not my problem.



its not my ego or personal feelings but fact is why a legal thing become secret and henger no is nothing any thing but a hanger no its not mean 14 or 114 militry no's always like this


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## Imran Khan

leonblack08 said:


> Hey man,we are not from Kolkata
> what about some drink???



sorry i am in KSA here is no  other wise


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## leonblack08

imran khan said:


> sorry i am in KSA here is no  other wise



LOLZ!!all right, lassi will do bro??


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## Imran Khan

Bangladesh paid US$115 to 125 million for eight aircraft


Bangladesh 9.12A MiG-MAPO 8 delivered

i will serch more then 2 hours and get nothing on a very info site abit mig-29

its russia every thing is secret no tail no info as we can get obut f-16 tail no info or serial no info of every f-16 on the planet from f16.net

here is 7 big paes abut all info abut mig-29

also i ask one qes who BD pay 250mn$ secretly without know any one abut this deal its unacceptable for people that a big deal and legal deal of mig-29 is secret.and why its secret no one know its not nukes deal or blastic missle deal its mig-29 wich is a 4th gen jet fighter not a nuclear reactar.

i am confuse


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## leonblack08

imran khan said:


> Bangladesh paid US$115 to 125 million for eight aircraft
> 
> 
> Bangladesh 9.12A MiG-MAPO 8 delivered
> 
> i will serch more then 2 hours and get nothing on a very info site abit mig-29
> 
> its russia every thing is secret no tail no info as we can get obut f-16 tail no info or serial no info of every f-16 on the planet from f16.net
> 
> here is 7 big paes abut all info abut mig-29
> 
> also i ask one qes who BD pay 250mn$ secretly without know any one abut this deal its unacceptable for people that a big deal and legal deal of mig-29 is secret.and why its secret no one know its not nukes deal or blastic missle deal its mig-29 wich is a 4th gen jet fighter not a nuclear reactar.
> 
> i am confuse



The original deal during Hasina period was to procure 24 Migs.But during the BNP period the govt. stopped paying to russians for a few years but later they came to agreement again and started paying the Russians.
As I said before,*INSIDE SOURCE* within military claims ten serial numbers have been found,which means there are more than 8 Migs in the country.This was said at BDmilitary forum.I have a cousine who is in the BAF.I guess I will have to ask him about this more thoroughly.


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## leonblack08

Do you guys have any idea about the news that Bangladesh are in talks with the Pakistan Ordnance Factory for cooperation in the production of 155 mm artillery projectiles??
Any ideas???


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## BanglaBhoot

ajpirzada said:


> i was reading an article sometime back which actually said there is a block in bangladesh which wants that to happen. *Munshi bhai *can u please tell us how true is this....



It is probably the largest block but any cooperation between Bangladesh and Pakistan is always prevented by the minority pro-Indians.

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## yarmook

MBI Munshi said:


> It is probably the largest block but any cooperation between Bangladesh and Pakistan is always prevented by the minority pro-Indians.



I heard this minority is remains of oldies. They conduct closed door secret meetings and they are also are least practicing Muslims. I also heard from Bangladeshi fellows that this minority pro-Indians are inclined towards hindusim but pretend to be Muslims. Is it true?


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## Al-zakir

yarmook said:


> I heard this minority is remains of oldies. They conduct closed door secret meetings and they are also are least practicing Muslims. I also heard from Bangladeshi fellows that this minority pro-Indians are inclined towards hindusim but pretend to be Muslims. Is it true?



It's true. They are half baked muslim with hindu mentality. They are also known to be awami follower, secularist indian dalal. They claim to be bangli first than muslim. They are musrik and rejected scum in our socity. This musrik sponsor hindu culture in the name of bangai culture. Those dalal has more acceptabilty in India than Banladesh. This dalal serve indian purpose. This dalal alway spread propagonda to label bangladesh as foundamentalist state. They are known to be enemy of islam and this bastard sould be wiped out soon inshallah as new generation of bangladeshi coming to power. Those musrik has no future in Bangladesh.

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## BanglaBhoot

yarmook said:


> I heard this minority is remains of oldies. They conduct closed door secret meetings and they are also are least practicing Muslims. I also heard from Bangladeshi fellows that this minority pro-Indians are inclined towards hindusim but pretend to be Muslims. Is it true?



Basically they are traitors to Bangladesh and do not serve the interests of the country. They pretend to be nationalist by talking about 1971 and democracy and human rights but they are the biggest betrayers of 1971 and are killers of democracy and violators of human rights. They do not believe that Bangladesh should be an independent nation and they do everything to undermine the country through false propaganda. They always attack Islam but do not do it directly. They talk about Islamist terrorism and claim all of Islam is therefore bad. They are often described as 5th columnists who work against Bangladesh interests to serve their paymasters in India.

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## yarmook

Appreciated your response buddies. I wanted to ensure what I have heard from my roommates during my studies in Australia. I had few Bangladeshi students there and at times I would have become confused whenever I called them Bengalis in a casual way they used to be offended and one day we discussed this thing. They said they liked to be called Bangladeshis Then I came to know what was the real reason behind that. They also called these pro-Indian community as fifth 5th columnists practicing hindu traditions. They said this community tries to mingle with majority Bangladeshis but they do not celebrate Muslim festivals although they pretend to be Muslims.


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## leonblack08

*IMPORTANT:Bangladesh are in talks with the Pakistan Ordnance Factory for cooperation in the production of 155 mm artillery projectiles*

*ANY IDEAS????*


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## ajpirzada

leonblack08 said:


> *IMPORTANT:Bangladesh are in talks with the Pakistan Ordnance Factory for cooperation in the production of 155 mm artillery projectiles*
> 
> *ANY IDEAS????*



bro its quite possible. coz this time when ur cheif of army staff came to pakistan he did talk about joint collaboration bw pak ordinance factory and urs. so i wouldnt be surprised if this is true. gud for both countries.


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## Imran Khan

leonblack08 said:


> *IMPORTANT:Bangladesh are in talks with the Pakistan Ordnance Factory for cooperation in the production of 155 mm artillery projectiles*
> 
> *ANY IDEAS????*



simple qes bro you have info abut who many guns BD army have 155mm?

if its high nombers may be yes if not then they can buy and fill there reqairements.


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## Shoaib_Sham

imran khan said:


> my brother wich world you live????? we just figere out whats going on in bd defence.its same as our indian nighbers dreaming there peoples in 2020 2030 2040 please see today see what we achive last few years and can you please provide some sold info what is that magic stick you use next few years.check next few years bd papultion were go powerty were will be if you see past BD was better then today in 80s 90s.i never wana hart your nationalism but you become over nationalst.we all love our lands but we see true also.i can say next few years our arms exports boom same like boom until today from 2000 when we start export ars.i can say next few years our power shortige and enerjy needs will fill because we already working on big dams.i can say next few years our coal production will increase and oil imports will less.i can say next few years war on terarr will finish then no more losess of money on this war.i can gwader port will start receve heavy ships from next few months then become boom on trade with center asia.now can you please provide me some on graund info
> 
> 
> or as you say before
> 
> bangladesh have 16 mig29 because inter sorces say this news can some one beleve this chaildsh claim
> 
> when bd get these from were they get ?
> 
> who pay these secret money?
> and india was sleeping that time?
> please be a realstic these kind of claims show that you don't know any thing
> 
> sorry



cant read with so many spelling mistakes and in-coherent sentences.

cheers.


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## leonblack08

*Al Zarrar Main Battle Tank*

The Al Zarrar Main Battle Tank (MBT) is essentially an upgrade kit originally designed by the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) to modernise and improve obsolete Type 59 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs).

*Design*

The upgrade kit consists of an estimated 54 modifications to the original Type 59 MBTs ensuring that the modernisation results in a cost effective, up to date, combat worthy tank with heavy firepower.

The main features of the modernised Al Zarrar MBT include:

* 125 mm smoothbore gun
* Semi-automatic loader
* Image stabilized fire control and improved gun control system
* Thermal Imaging (TI) for day/night combat
* Improved protection with explosive reactive armour and anti-mine protection
* 730 hp engine
* Improved transmission
* Improved suspension

*Status*

The Bangladesh Army Chief General Moeen U. Ahmed visited Pakistan on the 21st of October, 2008 to improve defence ties between the two neighbouring nations.

During the course of the official visit he asked proposed a joint venture between the two countries for modernising the large number of Type 59 MBTs remaining in service with the Bangladesh Army.

The Pakistani side responded positively to the proposal and is transferring relevant technology to Bangladesh in this regard.

After the project is complete all Bangladesh Army Type 59 MBTs will be rebuilt as new Al Zarrar MBTs. The entire modernisation program will be done inside Bangladesh under this joint venture project.

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## leonblack08



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## leonblack08

Al-Zarrar MBT:

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## Raquib

leonblack08 said:


> *Al Zarrar Main Battle Tank*
> 
> The Al Zarrar Main Battle Tank (MBT) is essentially an upgrade kit originally designed by the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) to modernise and improve obsolete Type 59 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs).
> 
> *Design*
> 
> The upgrade kit consists of an estimated 54 modifications to the original Type 59 MBTs ensuring that the modernisation results in a cost effective, up to date, combat worthy tank with heavy firepower.
> 
> The main features of the modernised Al Zarrar MBT include:
> 
> * 125 mm smoothbore gun
> * Semi-automatic loader
> * Image stabilized fire control and improved gun control system
> * Thermal Imaging (TI) for day/night combat
> * Improved protection with explosive reactive armour and anti-mine protection
> * 730 hp engine
> * Improved transmission
> * Improved suspension
> 
> *Status*
> 
> The Bangladesh Army Chief General Moeen U. Ahmed visited Pakistan on the 21st of October, 2008 to improve defence ties between the two neighbouring nations.
> 
> During the course of the official visit he asked proposed a joint venture between the two countries for modernising the large number of Type 59 MBTs remaining in service with the Bangladesh Army.
> 
> The Pakistani side responded positively to the proposal and is transferring relevant technology to Bangladesh in this regard.
> 
> After the project is complete all Bangladesh Army Type 59 MBTs will be rebuilt as new Al Zarrar MBTs. The entire modernisation program will be done inside Bangladesh under this joint venture project.



sounds cool...great job... :bangladesh:


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## Raquib

leonblack08 said:


> BD-PAK troops together in UN Missions:



both Bengalis and Pakistanis look smart with their uniform...

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## Raquib

leonblack08 said:


> Here is a little summary by Mr.BdMilitary(he runs another forum and works in the defence sector)
> 
> Joint Special Forces Exercise
> 
> All sides can benefit from joint Special Forces exercises by taking advantage of each other countries varied environment.
> 
> - Bangladesh is building a very large Jungle Warfare School and Navy SEAL training centre in Chittagong area
> - We discussed about Paracommando Battalion members training with the Special Services Group of Pakistan. They can obviously learn high-altitude diving from the SSG, as Bangladesh has not trained its forces to do so locally.
> 
> Joint Production of Military Equipment
> 
> - The Bangladesh Navy has a huge project to build dozens of fast attack craft of 200 to 300 ton weight. The Pakistani-side are keen on the joint venture in Khulna Ship Yard but they will face competition from Turkish and Malay companies too.
> - Bangladesh needs to upgrade 300 Type 59 MBTs to become effective combat assets and discussion has been ongoing with the Pakistani counterparts at HIT to transfer technology for local production of Al Zarrar tank components at the Bangladesh Army's Heavy Workshop, which is capable of building tanks, APCs and artillery systems apart from upgrading them.
> - Pakistan is the primary ATGM supplier to the Bangladesh Army. It has supplied hundreds of Baktar Shikan (HJ-8) ATGM launchers each year. The reason the BA is procuring from the Pakistani company is that it is a cheaper alternative to exactly the same ATGM manufactured in China. Room exists for establishing an ATGM plant in the Bangladesh Ordnance Factory - I personally know that they have a plan to do this.
> 
> Procurement of Defence Hardware
> 
> - The Bangladesh Army chief has shown interest is procuring communications systems from Pakistan though it currently uses American and South African systems. No further details are available regarding this procurement.



good post leonblack!!!


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## Al-zakir

leonblack08 said:


> *Al Zarrar Main Battle Tank*
> 
> The Al Zarrar Main Battle Tank (MBT) is essentially an upgrade kit originally designed by the Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) to modernise and improve obsolete Type 59 Main Battle Tanks (MBTs).
> 
> *Design*
> 
> The upgrade kit consists of an estimated 54 modifications to the original Type 59 MBTs ensuring that the modernisation results in a cost effective, up to date, combat worthy tank with heavy firepower.
> 
> The main features of the modernised Al Zarrar MBT include:
> 
> * 125 mm smoothbore gun
> * Semi-automatic loader
> * Image stabilized fire control and improved gun control system
> * Thermal Imaging (TI) for day/night combat
> * Improved protection with explosive reactive armour and anti-mine protection
> * 730 hp engine
> * Improved transmission
> * Improved suspension
> 
> *Status*
> 
> The Bangladesh Army Chief General Moeen U. Ahmed visited Pakistan on the 21st of October, 2008 to improve defence ties between the two neighbouring nations.
> 
> During the course of the official visit he asked proposed a joint venture between the two countries for modernising the large number of Type 59 MBTs remaining in service with the Bangladesh Army.
> 
> The Pakistani side responded positively to the proposal and is transferring relevant technology to Bangladesh in this regard.
> 
> After the project is complete all Bangladesh Army Type 59 MBTs will be rebuilt as new Al Zarrar MBTs. The entire modernisation program will be done inside Bangladesh under this joint venture project.



good news. I like the "joint Venture Project" part.....we are moving at the rite direction........


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## SurvivoR

Al-zakir said:


> good news. I like the "joint Venture Project" part.....we are moving at the rite direction........



I think it is due to sitting government in Bangladesh I mean military which has accelerated such ideas for defence cooperation with Pakistan.

Interested to know if there was any such intention on part of earlier governments in BD?
How much work has been done by Hasina or Khalida governments in past in this regard?


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## azmax007

Raquib said:


> both Bengalis and Pakistanis look smart with their uniform...



It's good to see two Muslim nations working together for the better good of peace, mash'Allah.


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## azmax007

Al-zakir said:


> It's true. They are half baked muslim with hindu mentality. They are also known to be awami follower, secularist indian dalal. They claim to be bangli first than muslim. They are musrik and rejected scum in our socity. This musrik sponsor hindu culture in the name of bangai culture. Those dalal has more acceptabilty in India than Banladesh. This dalal serve indian purpose. This dalal alway spread propagonda to label bangladesh as foundamentalist state. They are known to be enemy of islam and this bastard sould be wiped out soon inshallah as new generation of bangladeshi coming to power. Those musrik has no future in Bangladesh.



I've seen them and I read some of these musriks' article. One of these followers is a guy named 'Sunny Raihan' on FaceBook. He claims Bangladeshi first and doesn't mention Islam at all and pokes fun at religion in a way. Very pro awami league.


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## Al-zakir

azmax007 said:


> I've seen them and I read some of these musriks' article. One of these followers is a guy named 'Sunny Raihan' on FaceBook. He claims Bangladeshi first and doesn't mention Islam at all and pokes fun at religion in a way. Very pro awami league.



Thank you bro. welcome to the PDF. Have you introduce yourself to this forum yet?


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## BanglaBhoot

azmax007 said:


> I've seen them and I read some of these musriks' article. One of these followers is a guy named 'Sunny Raihan' on FaceBook. He claims Bangladeshi first and doesn't mention Islam at all and pokes fun at religion in a way. Very pro awami league.



Yes there are many such people and they are acting against the interest of BD. 

Welcome to PDF and keep your comments coming.


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## BanglaBhoot

Choyon said:


> It is very uncivilized to point your finger at a particular individual like this.



Indians always pointing fingers and that doesn't count as uncivilized. Okay.

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## idune

Choyon said:


> It is very uncivilized to point your finger at a particular individual like this. Every individual has the right to decide what he wants to believe. You hate him because he considers himself that, but that doesn't necessarily make him an "evil person". My personal opnion on this would be that these bangladeshis are patriots, not islamists, and they won't risk their country to get involved in the troubles of other muslim countries.
> 
> Whatever the case, please don't put a particular person's belief into the table of discussion. Thanks.



When Bangladeshis are labeled islamists, extremists and so on by indo-western media that leaves the door open to question what motivation, faith and context those accusation came from. Specially when person is from Bangladesh. There are some Bangladeshis who have sold their soul and service to indo-western propaganda blitz. And there are some who bought into these propaganda scheme.

Look at following article written by Joy, son of Awami league chief Hasina and also claimed to be her advisor. Joy Hasina's son spent his childhood and teenage years in india and adulthood in US. Not to mention his questionable personal conduct, he has very little touch with people of Bangladesh and their livelihood. Yet he sold his service to cause of indo western agenda and written blatant lie against people of Bangladesh and its armed forces. Infect most of his writing has eerie similarity with india based media propagannda. That leaves the door open to question his motive, faith, allegiance and everything he is associated with.



> Islamic extremism is also on the rise in Bangladesh because of the growing numbers of Islamists in the military. The Islamists cleverly began growing their numbers within the Army by training for the Army Entrance Exams at madrassas. This madrassa training was necessary because of the relative difficulty associated with passing these exams. The military is attractive because of both its respected status and its high employment opportunities in a country where unemployment ranges from 20 percent to 30 percent for younger males. High demand for military posts has resulted in an entrance exam designed to limit the number of recruits. Before this madrassa Entrance Exam campaign, only 5 percent of military recruits came from madrasses in 2001. By 2006, at the end of the BNP&#8217;s reign, madrassas supplied nearly 35 percent of the Army recruits. In a country that has seen four military coup d&#8217;&#233;tats in its short 37 year history, the astronomical growth of Islamists in the military is troubling to say the least.
> 
> Harvard International Review: Stemming the Rise of Islamic Extremism in Bangladesh



I would suggest you be prepared before perching.

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## salman nedian

imran khan said:


> today 16 dec hahahahaha not allowed any bangladeshi here just joke



I think Pak and BD should celebrate this day as the Day of Friendship or Day of Reunion that would help to reduce the pain.

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## mDumb

So what was the 1971 war about???? BD seceded and now wants to reunite???


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## Al-zakir

mDumb said:


> So what was the 1971 war about???? BD seceded and now wants to reunite???



And would there be any problem if done so???? will you please enlighten us?????

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## leonblack08

Al-zakir said:


> And would there be any problem if done so???? will you please enlighten us?????



We should not reunite but we should be friends.It is good for both of us.

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> And would there be any problem if done so???? will you please enlighten us?????



Why this reunification thing even surfaced after so many years after Pakistan or India. Why few of the people cant accept the fact that, Bangladesh is a country with all its pride!!! We have come a long way and have already developed our own personality/identity and that is quite different than that of Pakistan or India. There is noway a Bangladeshi will go back and try to learn Urdu or Hindi or do some of the stuffs which will totally contradict our culture and values. We are what we are and are proud of that.. You better accept it.. EARLIER THE BETTER


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## leonblack08

*Pakistan to gift old submarines to Bangladesh Navy*
Josy Joseph
Friday, June 02, 2006 23:14 IST

The Pakistan gift would provide the Bangladesh Navy its first underwater capabilties.

NEW DELHI: In a strategic decision that Indian policy planners are trying to comprehend, Pakistan has agreed to gift two of its old submarines to Bangladesh Navy.

Authoritative sources in the establishment told DNA that Pakistani authorities agreed to the gift when Bangladesh Prime Minister Begum Khaleda Zia visited Pakistan from February 12 to 14 earlier this year.

Pakistani authorities would refurbish and refit two of its old submarines for the Bangladesh Navy under the agreement.

The Pakistan gift would provide the Bangladesh Navy its first underwater capabilities. This raises several questions regarding Bangladesh&#8217;s strategic planning and forecast for the region.

As the information begin to trickle down to policy makers here, the new strength of Bangladeshi Navy is bewildering them. But they admit that they will have to ingrain Dhaka&#8217;s new strength into Indian strategic plans.

Sources said Pakistan would be refurbishing two of its Daphne class submarines, which are being decommissioned presently, and give it to Bangladesh Navy. Pakistan Navy had acquired four Daphne class submarined from France in 1969-70.

The Daphne class submarine PNS Hangor, which sunk Indian naval ship Khukri during 1971 war, was decommisioned on January 2, 2006 and is reportedly being converted into a museum ship.

Sources said the the two-submarine deal was the high point of Bangaldesh Prime Minister's visit to Pakistan. The deal was kept under wraps, but New Delhi now has authoritative information through its intelligence channels about Pakistan's strategic move.

Pakistan Navy has a small submarine arm and is presently in the process of inducting Agosta-90B submarines from France.

Sources watching Bangladesh are mystified by the move, given its small navy of just over 10,000 personnel. The Bangladesh Navy is limited mostly to coastal patrolling and is getting a modern frigate built in South Korea.

Indian efforts to woo the Bangladesh Navy, with a possible gift of a ship, has not gone too far. Indian Navy chief Admiral Arun Prakash had undertaken a visit to Bangladesh in December, and had made several offers including training for its personnel in Indian facilities and assistance on various other fronts.

DNA - World - Pakistan to gift old submarines to Bangladesh Navy

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## SherdiL!

are we that friendly that we can establish 2 Airbases in Bangladesh Nepal n Sri-Lanka ?


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## Jihad

iajdani said:


> Why this reunification thing even surfaced after so many years after Pakistan or India. Why few of the people cant accept the fact that, Bangladesh is a country with all its pride!!! We have come a long way and have already developed our own personality/identity and that is quite different than that of Pakistan or India. There is noway a Bangladeshi will go back and try to learn Urdu or Hindi or do some of the stuffs which will totally contradict our culture and values. We are what we are and are proud of that.. You better accept it.. EARLIER THE BETTER


Well said, it's a big insult by easily telling a country to "re-unite" with another country.
People should think a second before they say certain things.


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## Imran Khan

these subs i think go gidani for broking .


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## SherdiL!

aveova said:


> bangladesh, should be ashamed of them shelf india u gave them freedom from pakistan, nd know instead of askin india for a technical assistance for military hardware are runnin back to pakistan.... india has far more technical superiority in compareable to pakistan. so comeon wake up.... before ur back stabbed.......



lolumaD? you helped them to create Havoc in Pakistan  you raped thier women and blame it was Pakistani army.


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## leonblack08

aveova said:


> bangladesh, should be ashamed of them shelf india u gave them freedom from pakistan, nd know instead of askin india for a technical assistance for military hardware are runnin back to pakistan.... india has far more technical superiority in compareable to pakistan. so comeon wake up.... before ur back stabbed.......



Don't you think its *foolish* and *idiotic* to ask for military assistance to a neighbouring country??Especially when fanatics like BJP can come to power.Can anyone give a guarrantee that they won't attack Bangladesh???
We are not asking for the subs,but they are giving it as a sign of goodwill.
One more thing,*India did not give us freedom,but helped us to get it*.Go read history books if any doubt persists.


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## Jihad

aveova said:


> bangladesh, should be ashamed of them shelf india u gave them freedom from pakistan, nd know instead of askin india for a technical assistance for military hardware are runnin back to pakistan.... india has far more technical superiority in compareable to pakistan. so comeon wake up.... before ur back stabbed.......


Not a good way to begin your first post with..
Have you introduced yourself...?


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## Raquib

imran khan said:


> its your nationalism i respect but facts will never change by emotions.bangladesh is not a such power to make fregates or missles.and most important qes is for what.can you see the list of frigetes makers ??????
> 
> relible sorce of BD MILITRY BUDGET.if you like see please in that money what can you do ???????????



Bangladesh is the worlds major ship builder bro...
You can check that out on the thread started by me *Bangladeh becoming a major ship builder*...


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## Al-zakir

Brothers relax. No need to get high or low blood pressure.


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## Raquib

aveova said:


> bangladesh, should be ashamed of them shelf india u gave them freedom from pakistan, nd know instead of askin india for a technical assistance for military hardware are runnin back to pakistan.... india has far more technical superiority in compareable to pakistan. so comeon wake up.... before ur back stabbed.......



You seem to be a great *******...never mind, but you proved it yourself...dont **** the hell out of our Pak-Bangla friendship...
At this time we're consdering India as our biggest enemy and as day passes by its(India) getting more troublesome for us...how dare you tell about Indo-Bangla friendship while the *BSF killing 93 people year including infants in a year(in average) and raping women...*how do expect us to get technologies and weapon from our biggest ******* enemy!!...those shitty techno...ohh i doubt does India have its own technology???if it really exists, then...........well, im just guessing...
Pakistani military may be smaller than you in numbers...but technologically they've proven themselves far better than you...!!



*We did not liberate Bangladesh to get it in the hands of you... remember it...*

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## Patriot

Agreed..India did not help BD to spread freedom.They did it to destabilize Pakistan.If IA ARMY and Indians were really honest they would not loot BD after winning the war.

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## leonblack08

aveova said:


> come on own up, i know my histroy well instead of thankin india ur too blamin on her, wake up would'nt it been da sacrifices of indian soldiers nd airmen bangladesh would never exist. when would you get your independence? if it wouldnt been da assistance of indian army u would just remain the sissy baby of pakistan, till wen would your ill trained mukti bahini fight using predictible tactics with pak soldiers, nd the same countries u fought nd was ur enemy is ur ally now????



Did I not mention INDIA HELPED????Read before you write.
Tell me when did India enter the war officially??3rd December and the war was over within 16th DEC.
Before that mukti bahini fought against Pakistan army.So what do you mean by....*till wen would your ill trained mukti bahini fight using predictible tactics with pak soldiers*
There were bengali officers defecting from Pakistan army,so "*ill trained*" is not the right choice of words.
*India's contribution can never be ignore,as that would be ungrateful*.But India lost its respect because of its *BAD HABIT* of interfering in others matters.Like RAW's role in aiding the Shanti Bahini insurgents in CHT hill tracts and lot more.India captured south talpatti island which is Bangladeshi land.
India built Farrakka barrage on an International river and now it will turn parts of BD into desert.
These are fair enough reason to anger any BD national.
Oh...and BSF's killing and raping;forgot to mention that
I don't know about others,but we do not hate Indian people but its the Indian policymakers and military who are totally irritating.

btw  to ,sorry I had to be rude as ur statements aren't so pleasant.

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## ajpirzada

iajdani said:


> Why this reunification thing even surfaced after so many years after Pakistan or India. Why few of the people cant accept the fact that, Bangladesh is a country with all its pride!!! We have come a long way and have already developed our own personality/identity and that is quite different than that of Pakistan or India. There is noway a Bangladeshi will go back and try to learn Urdu or Hindi or do some of the stuffs which will totally contradict our culture and values. We are what we are and are proud of that.. You better accept it.. EARLIER THE BETTER



guys guys guys...... i dont really know wat u r on about. reunification over here doesnt mean formin one state. reunification mean lik scraping visa system for the ppl of two countries, signing defence pact, free trade agreement, more joint ventures and stuff lik that. in pakistan everyone respects Bangladesh as a country. no one is even thinking of reunification lik pre 1971 era as it will not help any of the country. 
pakistan and bangladesh are two brother muslim countries. ppl have got feeling for each other despite wat happened in the past. we here in pakistan are happy for u coz u r happy. and remember if india ever attacks bangladesh, pakistan will be the first one to lend a helping hand. then ppl will just call it a strategic move and no one will care about our feelings. 
defence pact bw pak and bangladesh will be of great importance if ever signed and will further strengthen the national security of both the countries.
some of u guys still need to move fwd and stop thinkin about pak as ur enemy. india did help u. no doubt in that. but its the intention which matters. india helped u to harm pakistan and not bec india had some feeling for u guys.
anyways thats wat i think and i might be wrong.

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## Moscow

Raquib said:


> You seem to be a great *******...never mind, but you proved it yourself...dont **** the hell out of our Pak-Bangla friendship...
> At this time we're consdering India as our biggest enemy and as day passes by its(India) getting more troublesome for us...how dare you tell about Indo-Bangla friendship while the *BSF killing 93 people year including infants in a year(in average) and raping women...*how do expect us to get technologies and weapon from our biggest ******* enemy!!...those shitty techno...ohh i doubt does India have its own technology???if it really exists, then...........well, im just guessing...
> Pakistani military may be smaller than you in numbers...but technologically they've proven themselves far better than you...!!
> 
> 
> 
> *We did not liberate Bangladesh to get it in the hands of you... remember it...*










sir just point that i would like to state -
when there is a conflict between 2 countries in south asia the said countries have to fight their war themselves.pakistan and india has fought several wars while there were lot of countries that provided logistical support to each party none of them actually intervened. the 2 parties had to fight themselves and all the losses that occured humatarian,economically etc were between the 2 countries who fought.
in the modern times no country wants to spoil its economy by an armed conflict<not even india and pakistan> 
i am very pleased to see bangladesh grow as a nation in the world and make a place for itself.but considering india as an enemy and possibly act in way of armed conflict will destroy bangladesh s growth and push the country back by ages.
everyone knows that bangladesh is still not prepared to match india in military strength.atmost they can cause severe damage to india,but india with its huge size and economy will recover back but can bangladesh recover from the disasters of war so easily.<remember you can get all the help you need from pakistan,china or whosoever you want but the real war has to be fought between bangladesh and india and no 3rd country is going to intervene>
however bad india s military technology<according to you> might be it is still good enough to prevail against bangladesh.
so conflict is not the solution
thanks

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## mDumb

<And would there be any problem if done so???? will you please enlighten us?????>

It depends on how deep is the animosity between PAK and BD after the independence of BD.

<Well said, it's a big insult by easily telling a country to "re-unite" with another country. People should think a second before they say certain things.>

In general, I would agree. However, in this case I hesitate to agree, since, BD was part of PAK. So, reunification may not be a bad thing (or possible), especially, to defeat the common enemy.

Fact:
Indian forces have occupied a land near Pyrdiwah, since 1971. Border skirmishes almost occurring daily between BDR and BSF. In 2001, the first serious military conflict occurred for 3 days (with Indian forces suffered the most casualties). BDR did retake the land but could not hold on.


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## mujtabaidreessheikh

ajpirzada said:


> guys guys guys...... i dont really know wat u r on about. reunification over here doesnt mean formin one state. reunification mean lik scraping visa system for the ppl of two countries, signing defence pact, free trade agreement, more joint ventures and stuff lik that. in pakistan everyone respects Bangladesh as a country. no one is even thinking of reunification lik pre 1971 era as it will not help any of the country.
> pakistan and bangladesh are two brother muslim countries. ppl have got feeling for each other despite wat happened in the past. we here in pakistan are happy for u coz u r happy. and remember if india ever attacks bangladesh, pakistan will be the first one to lend a helping hand. then ppl will just call it a strategic move and no one will care about our feelings.
> defence pact bw pak and bangladesh will be of great importance if ever signed and will further strengthen the national security of both the countries.
> some of u guys still need to move fwd and stop thinkin about pak as ur enemy. india did help u. no doubt in that. but its the intention which matters. india helped u to harm pakistan and not bec india had some feeling for u guys.
> anyways thats wat i think and i might be wrong.



agreed india doesnt have any feelings for the muslim masses 
u can take the example of kashmir that for over 60 years they r fighting for liberation but india is not only ruling over them but also voilating human rights a lot of women r raped on daily basis
there a lot of other liberations movements in india as well such as khalistan movement ,deccan liberation etc
this shows that india has no mercy for the common masses(specially muslims) she only wanted to harm pakistan in 1971
indian leadership after estaiblishment of paksitan started working on an agenda of dismembering it it without delay. east paksitan's soil proved very fertile for several reasons.(i think i dont need to mention them) and east pakistani masses who felt deprive and opressed by west pakistan (leadership only) fell an easy prey to them.
for example during civil war in east pakistan an indian leader mr A.K sibramneem said that "india should realize that its advantage is only in defeating pakistan which is no. 1 enemy of india and this is the golden moment which comes once in a century"
mrs gandhi said that"the two nation theroy has been sunk into bay of bengal as the bangladesh flag was unfurled"
source "witness to surrender" 

but very unfortunate for india that it is islamic bond (which had been sunk according to indra) which is again keeping us united(although not under a federation)


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## leonblack08

moscow said:


> sir just point that i would like to state -
> when there is a conflict between 2 countries in south asia the said countries have to fight their war themselves.pakistan and india has fought several wars while there were lot of countries that provided logistical support to each party none of them actually intervened. the 2 parties had to fight themselves and all the losses that occured humatarian,economically etc were between the 2 countries who fought.
> in the modern times no country wants to spoil its economy by an armed conflict<not even india and pakistan>
> i am very pleased to see bangladesh grow as a nation in the world and make a place for itself.but considering india as an enemy and possibly act in way of armed conflict will destroy bangladesh s growth and push the country back by ages.
> everyone knows that bangladesh is still not prepared to match india in military strength.atmost they can cause severe damage to india,but india with its huge size and economy will recover back but can bangladesh recover from the disasters of war so easily.<remember you can get all the help you need from pakistan,china or whosoever you want but the real war has to be fought between bangladesh and india and no 3rd country is going to intervene>
> however bad india s military technology<according to you> might be it is still good enough to prevail against bangladesh.
> so conflict is not the solution
> thanks



*AGREED 200%.*
We can never defeat India by attacking them,unless we get all the gold from *FORT KNOX* 
We are fielding a defensive army,so thinking we can attack India is like a dream.The faster we get the truth the better.

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## Raquib

saadahmed said:


> Agreed..India did not help India because to spread freedom.They did it to destabilize Pakistan.If IA ARMY and Indians were really honest they would not loot BD after winning the war.



thats right exactly...


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## Raquib

moscow said:


> sir just point that i would like to state -
> when there is a conflict between 2 countries in south asia the said countries have to fight their war themselves.pakistan and india has fought several wars while there were lot of countries that provided logistical support to each party none of them actually intervened. the 2 parties had to fight themselves and all the losses that occured humatarian,economically etc were between the 2 countries who fought.
> in the modern times no country wants to spoil its economy by an armed conflict<not even india and pakistan>
> i am very pleased to see bangladesh grow as a nation in the world and make a place for itself.but considering india as an enemy and possibly act in way of armed conflict will destroy bangladesh s growth and push the country back by ages.
> everyone knows that bangladesh is still not prepared to match india in military strength.atmost they can cause severe damage to india,but india with its huge size and economy will recover back but can bangladesh recover from the disasters of war so easily.<remember you can get all the help you need from pakistan,china or whosoever you want but the real war has to be fought between bangladesh and india and no 3rd country is going to intervene>
> however bad india s military technology<according to you> might be it is still good enough to prevail against bangladesh.
> so conflict is not the solution
> thanks



moscow,
I never said for Bangladesh should attack India...our country is now independent...we have our own military...we're developing our military so that they can act defensively while there is a war...no one knows the forests and other natural resources in Bangladesh better than our military...
if India attacks Bangladesh it would not be fighting our military only but, it will have to be fighting against a population of 150 million...


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## ajpirzada

Raquib said:


> moscow,
> I never said for Bangladesh should attack India...our country is now independent...we have our own military...we're developing our military so that they can act defensively while there is a war...no one knows the forests and other natural resources in Bangladesh better than our military...
> if India attacks Bangladesh it would not be fighting our military only but, it will have to be fighting against a population of 150 million...



just remember one thing brother. never let ur guards down if u want to live with dignity. its not about invading any country but about defending ur own motherland.

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## Raquib

imran khan said:


> Budget expenditures 2007
> Data source: 2007 CIA World Factbook
> 
> View this list in Alphabetic order View this list in alphabetic order View this list in alphabetic order
> 1 United States	$2,660,000,000,000
> 2 Japan	$1,639,000,000,000
> 3 Germany	$1,344,000,000,000
> 4 France	$1,211,000,000,000
> 5 United Kingdom	$1,040,000,000,000
> 6 Italy	$925,000,000,000
> 7 China	$489,600,000,000
> 8 Spain	$475,300,000,000
> 9 Netherlands	$306,500,000,000
> 10 Australia	$258,000,000,000
> 11 Sweden	$210,500,000,000
> 12 Korea, South	$209,500,000,000
> 13 Mexico	$196,200,000,000
> 14 Belgium	$195,500,000,000
> 15 Canada	$181,800,000,000
> 16 Brazil	$172,400,000,000
> 17 Austria	$161,600,000,000
> 18 Russia	$157,300,000,000
> 19 India	$143,800,000,000
> 20 Switzerland	$139,100,000,000
> 21 Denmark	$138,900,000,000
> 22 Norway	$133,100,000,000
> 23 Turkey	$121,600,000,000
> 24 Saudi Arabia	$107,600,000,000
> 25 Greece	$106,700,000,000
> 26 Finland	$101,000,000,000
> 27 Iran	$100,600,000,000
> 28 Portugal	$93,090,000,000
> 29 Indonesia	$79,450,000,000
> 30 Taiwan	$77,930,000,000
> 31 South Africa	$75,930,000,000
> 32 Ireland	$73,050,000,000
> 33 Poland	$71,250,000,000
> 34 Czech Republic	$62,530,000,000
> 35  Hungary	$59,620,000,000
> 36 Venezuela	$52,900,000,000
> 37 Colombia	$52,290,000,000
> 38 Israel	$49,570,000,000
> 39 Algeria	$49,140,000,000
> 40 Argentina	$47,600,000,000
> 41 Thailand	$40,340,000,000
> 42 Romania	$39,100,000,000
> 43 Malaysia	$37,000,000,000
> 44 New Zealand	$36,990,000,000
> 45 United Arab Emirates	$36,890,000,000
> 46 Cuba	$36,410,000,000
> 47 Ukraine	$35,600,000,000
> 48 Iraq	$34,600,000,000
> 49 Kuwait	$33,620,000,000
> 50 Hong Kong	$33,020,000,000
> 51 Egypt	$31,830,000,000
> 52 Chile	$26,680,000,000
> 53 Slovakia	$26,140,000,000
> * 54 Pakistan	$25,650,000,000*
> 55 Peru	$25,180,000,000
> 56 Philippines	$21,380,000,000
> 57 Morocco	$20,390,000,000
> 58 Singapore	$19,850,000,000
> 59 Luxembourg	$19,790,000,000
> 60 Libya	$19,300,000,000
> 61 Croatia	$19,060,000,000
> 62 Nigeria	$19,050,000,000
> 63 Kazakhstan	$18,090,000,000
> 64 Qatar	$16,890,000,000
> 65 Vietnam	$16,630,000,000
> 66 Slovenia	$16,350,000,000
> 67 Oman	$12,810,000,000
> 68 Bulgaria	$12,160,000,000
> 69 Serbia	$11,120,000,000
> 70 Ecuador	$10,460,000,000
> 71 Sudan	$10,100,000,000
> 72 Lithuania	$9,761,000,000
> 73 Angola	$9,700,000,000
> 74 Puerto Rico	$9,600,000,000
> 75 Syria	$9,420,000,000
> 76 Tunisia	$8,734,000,000
> * 77 Bangladesh	$8,694,000,000*
> 
> 
> Budget expenditures 2007 country rankings - Flags, Maps, Economy, Geography, Climate, Natural Resources, Current Issues, International Agreements, Population, Social Statistics, Political System



wow...shocked...BD in the last of all!!! i cant believe this...why the **** our govt dont keep an eye on MILITARY.................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, i heard that Sheikh Hasina said if she came to power she would start buying Mig-29 in a quite large number for the BAF...is it true??now she's elected as the PM... lets see what ahppens...


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## leonblack08

Raquib said:


> wow...shocked...BD in the last of all!!! i cant believe this...why the **** our govt dont keep an eye on MILITARY.................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Well, i heard that Sheikh Hasina said if she came to power she would start buying Mig-29 in a quite large number for the BAF...is it true??now she's elected as the PM... lets see what ahppens...



I think she should go for buying JF-17,as the maintenance of twin engine Mig-29 is more than JF-17.I think it is also cheaper than Mig-29,correct me if I am wrong.


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## Raquib

leonblack08 said:


> I think she should go for buying JF-17,as the maintenance of twin engine Mig-29 is more than JF-17.I think it is also cheaper than Mig-29,correct me if I am wrong.



well, if its really affordable then why not go for Mig-29 as Sheikh Hasina said??
And I think Mig-29 is a better option than JF-17 if we dont face any financial problems...


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## ahmeddsid

Mig 29 is a better choice, but let me remind you all that Inducting a 4th Gen aircraft is easy but maintaining it is hard. The Iraqis bought Mig 29s but they failed miserable because of bad Infrastructure and Poor Pilot training. There should be a coherent approach towards the policies. Slow and steady wins the race. Since you guys already operate Mig 29s it will be all the easier to go for it and Improve on it.

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## Raquib

ahmeddsid said:


> Mig 29 is a better choice, but let me remind you all that Inducting a 4th Gen aircraft is easy but maintaining it is hard. The Iraqis bought Mig 29s but they failed miserable because of bad Infrastructure and Poor Pilot training. There should be a coherent approach towards the policies. Slow and steady wins the race. Since you guys already operate Mig 29s it will be all the easier to go for it and Improve on it.



Thanks for your kind advice.
"In order to earn something, you have to sweat"
And you know, Bangladesh has got many talented pilots who had topped the result on the training in foreign countries such as Turkey and so on...
Yea, we are operating of about 16 Mig-29s and Insha-Allah the number would increase in a vast way...


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## ahmeddsid

Yeah I have heard about Bangladeshi Pilots Skill in Wars with India before you Got Independence from Pakistan. I am sure your Pilots will be formidable in the Mig 29s!

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## Raquib

ahmeddsid said:


> Yeah I have heard about Bangladeshi Pilots Skill in Wars with India before you Got Independence from Pakistan. I am sure your Pilots will be formidable in the Mig 29s!



Thanks bro...
You seem to be the first Indian talking for the possibility of Bangladesh...


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## ahmeddsid

Raquib said:


> Thanks bro...
> You seem to be the first Indian talking for the possibility of Bangladesh...


No Bro, Indians like and Respect Bangladesh, You must have met some Crackpot Idiotic Hindutva guys. No one likes them here also! hahahahah I dont have many Bangladeshi Friends, the only contact I have with Bangladesh is through a good friend of mine, she is an actress in Bangladesh, Alisha Pradhan. After I read some posts of Bangladeshi guys here, I thought you all hate India very much, but she told me that Bangladeshis love and respect India. 

I feel you should not fall for false news like India will attack Bangladesh etc etc. India will never do it, because its got no problems with you guys and the Govt Of Bangladesh is co-operative in matters regarding extradition of terrorists etc. I say, LET THERE BE FRIENDSHIP!


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## Raquib

Possession of the *Bangladesh Air Force*:

3 Bell 206L LongRanger 
12 Bell 212 
4 C-130B Hercules 
4 Cessna 152 
2 Cessna 337F 
12 Cessna T-37B 
22 Chengdu F-7MG/F-7M 
7 Chengdu FT-7B 
8 L-39ZA Albatros 
12 Nanchang A-5C Fantan 
36 Nanchang CJ-6 
10 Shenyang FT-6 (MiG-19) 
3 An-26 
3 An-32 
15 Mi-17 
6 MiG-29 
2 MiG-29UB 


Beside Mig-29, i think the BAF should also go for some F-16 which is already in the possession of the PAF...


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## TOPGUN

Raquib said:


> Possession of the *Bangladesh Air Force*:
> 
> 3 Bell 206L LongRanger
> 12 Bell 212
> 4 C-130B Hercules
> 4 Cessna 152
> 2 Cessna 337F
> 12 Cessna T-37B
> 22 Chengdu F-7MG/F-7M
> 7 Chengdu FT-7B
> 8 L-39ZA Albatros
> 12 Nanchang A-5C Fantan
> 36 Nanchang CJ-6
> 10 Shenyang FT-6 (MiG-19)
> 3 An-26
> 3 An-32
> 15 Mi-17
> 6 MiG-29
> 2 MiG-29UB
> 
> 
> Beside Mig-29, i think the BAF should also go for some F-16 which is already in the possession of the PAF...



Very true but i dont know if that will happen why doesnt BAF try for jf-17 or is it already??

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## Armchair General Bob

I think Bangladesh would do better to buy more of what it really needs, like helicopters to move troops and rescue people from cyclones instead of fighter jets.


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## leonblack08

Armchair General Bob said:


> I think Bangladesh would do better to buy more of what it really needs, like helicopters to move troops and rescue people from cyclones instead of fighter jets.



We need both.BD operates Mi-17 and every year they are procuring more for UN missions.It is true without USA's helicopters and amphibious ships it would be much harder to rescue cyclone SIDR victims.
We need fighter jets as well,just recently we almost had a war with myanmar over territorial dispute.So,both are needed.


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## ju87

leonblack08 said:


> We need fighter jets as well,just recently we almost had a war with myanmar over territorial dispute.



Whoa, when did this happen? Can you post some news article(s)?


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## M_Saint

leonblack08 said:


> Rawalpindi , October 21: General Moeen U Ahmed, Chief of Army Staff Bangladesh Army who is on a six day official visit to Pakistan, visited General Headquarters today and called on the Chief of Army Staff, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani. Both sides agreed to enhance their existing level of defence relationship. They also discussed strategic issues to develop common understanding.
> Earlier, on arrival at General Headquarters, General Moeen U Ahmed was presented a guard of honour. He reviewed the parade and took salute from the smartly turned out contingent of Pakistan Army.


Having no credibility behind his name and not leading a single war, MUA doesnt even deserve to be a high ranking army officer let alone COAS. If Mir Shiraz had made the biggest mistake in eighteen century by electing MIR JAFAR as his General then KHALEDA had done worse for Muslims in BD in 20th century. His smile and smooth talk with G. Kayani only reflects his DECEPTIVE MENTALITY for PR tactics. Taking all the advantages from BNP led GOVT and then facilitating to arrest 400,000 of its supporters; he not only has back stabbed patriotic forces but also has surpassed MIR JAFAR by many extents. Unless PAK or any other Muslim army liberates Muslims from BD land then their fates will be like Palestinians soon (::Welcome to Daily Naya Diganta::). So, any defence pact with him under RAWAMY LEAGUE will be digging own grave yards by GOP and the people of PAK.


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## ahmeddsid

M_Saint said:


> Having no credibility behind his name and not leading a single war, MUA doesnt even deserve to be a high ranking army officer let alone COAS. If Mir Shiraz had made the biggest mistake in eighteen century by electing MIR JAFAR as his General then KHALEDA had done worse for Muslims in BD in 20th century. His smile and smooth talk with G. Kayani only reflects his DECEPTIVE MENTALITY for PR tactics. Taking all the advantages from BNP led GOVT and then facilitating to arrest 400,000 of its supporters; he not only has back stabbed patriotic forces but also has surpassed MIR JAFAR by many extents. Unless PAK or any other Muslim army liberates Muslims from BD land then their fates will be like Palestinians soon (::Welcome to Daily Naya Diganta::). So, any defence pact with him under RAWAMY LEAGUE will be digging own grave yards by GOP and the people of PAK.


What are u??? I just dont get it. You got Liberated in 71 and again you want to be Liberated??? That too by Pakistan? I thought you broke away from them, why join them now? lol


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## Raquib

leonblack08 said:


> We need both.BD operates Mi-17 and every year they are procuring more for UN missions.It is true without USA's helicopters and amphibious ships it would be much harder to rescue cyclone SIDR victims.
> We need fighter jets as well,just recently we almost had a war with myanmar over territorial dispute.So,both are needed.



I think it is better to go for Mig-29 as Hasina said rather than JF-17...


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## ahmeddsid

Raquib said:


> I think it is better to go for Mig-29 as Hasina said rather than JF-17...


Mig 29 is a better choice anyday, Provided BD will have to invest in Good Training and Infrastructure. Since BD already has many celebrated Pilots, I am sure flying is in ur blood! God Speed


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## azmax007

imran khan said:


> bangladesh spends $840 million,per year its whole defence budget and now you can see what shuld shere of new waipens i think more then 200mn for new waipens for all forces.its mean BD need some small but very efective waipens with cost efective.not to buaild frigetes or distroyers.



lmao! where did you get that information? For your information they spend A LOT more. I have high-ranking family members in the military... and well, let's just say Bangladeshi Military keeps a lot of things hidden away. We don't need to show the world all our weapons. There's a lot of things they do behind the scenes in Bangladesh and they don't want the world to know what they do, or how much they spend, or what they are capable of.

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## azmax007

iajdani said:


> You will find that out in next 5 years when there is a big possibility that BD economy will surpass PAK economy.



It's in the process of happening now, the Bangladeshi taka is worth more than the Pakistani rupee. Check it out on Yahoo Finance.


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## azmax007

z9-ec said:


> Enhanced trade between South Asia including Bangladesh and Pakistan will likely boost our economies and eventually improve our living standards.



Insh'Allah! I buy Pakistani products all the time, Shaan Masala and my favorite drink *PAKOLA* Dil bola!  lolz, I love that drink, I buy at least 3 cans every time i purchase them.


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## Raquib

azmax007 said:


> lmao! where did you get that information? For your information they spend A LOT more. I have high-ranking family members in the military... and well, let's just say Bangladeshi Military keeps a lot of things hidden away. We don't need to show the world all our weapons. There's a lot of things they do behind the scenes in Bangladesh and they don't want the world to know what they do, or how much they spend, or what they are capable of.



thats what one of my uncle says serving in the Bangladesh Navy(Lieutenant Commander)...

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## azmax007

Raquib said:


> thats what one of my uncle says serving in the Bangladesh Navy(Lieutenant Commander)...



thank you! the BD Army is smart, that's why you won't see their weapons or anything related to their military on any web sites. It's hard to find any information about them, because they keep things hidden away. 

Look how BD popped out 600,000 police officers for protecting the elections, that's the size of Pakistan's army; I didn't know we had that large police force. On top of that, if I remember correctly, 50,000 military soldiers oversaw the police officers.

Over all Bangladesh has weapons and sources the world doesn't even think they would have because of the tight security of the military.

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## Raquib

azmax007 said:


> thank you! the BD Army is smart, that's why you won't see their weapons or anything related to their military on any web sites. It's hard to find any information about them, because they keep things hidden away.
> 
> Look how BD popped out 600,000 police officers for protecting the elections, that's the size of Pakistan's army; I didn't know we had that large police force. On top of that, if I remember correctly, 50,000 military soldiers oversaw the police officers.
> 
> Over all Bangladesh has weapons and sources the world doesn't even think they would have because of the tight security of the military.



right you are dude...


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## Raquib

azmax007 said:


> Insh'Allah! I buy Pakistani products all the time, Shaan Masala and my favorite drink *PAKOLA* Dil bola!  lolz, I love that drink, I buy at least 3 cans every time i purchase them.



well...then i hope PAKOLA would be soon imported in Bangladesh Insha-Allah...
I already enjoy the SHEZAN MANGO JUICE here in Bangladesh......


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## azmax007

Raquib said:


> well...then i hope PAKOLA would be soon imported in Bangladesh Insha-Allah...
> I already enjoy the SHEZAN MANGO JUICE here in Bangladesh......



They have it in Bangladeshi grocery stores here in USA, and most of the time the shelves are half full of them because a lot of Bengalis buy it. PAKOLA Ice Cream flavor rocks!


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## leonblack08

ju87 said:


> Whoa, when did this happen? Can you post some news article(s)?



*Tension along Bangladesh, Myanmar border, China counsels talks*

Tension along Bangladesh, Myanmar border, China counsels talks

there are many threads regarding this in this forum,check it if you are interested.


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## Raquib

azmax007 said:


> They have it in Bangladeshi grocery stores here in USA, and most of the time the shelves are half full of them because a lot of Bengalis buy it. PAKOLA Ice Cream flavor rocks!



well, then bring 1 for me when you come back from the us......lol...


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## leonblack08

M_Saint said:


> Having no credibility behind his name and not leading a single war, MUA doesnt even deserve to be a high ranking army officer let alone COAS. If Mir Shiraz had made the biggest mistake in eighteen century by electing MIR JAFAR as his General then KHALEDA had done worse for Muslims in BD in 20th century. His smile and smooth talk with G. Kayani only reflects his DECEPTIVE MENTALITY for PR tactics. Taking all the advantages from BNP led GOVT and then facilitating to arrest 400,000 of its supporters; he not only has back stabbed patriotic forces but also has surpassed MIR JAFAR by many extents. Unless PAK or any other Muslim army liberates Muslims from BD land then their fates will be like Palestinians soon (::Welcome to Daily Naya Diganta::). So, any defence pact with him under RAWAMY LEAGUE will be digging own grave yards by GOP and the people of PAK.



Can you name any single general in BD army who lead a war??
All those who participated in 1971 are either dead or retired.So shut your mouth and stop blaming the army for the loss of BNP.

*IF YOU HAVE GUTS THEN CRITICISE THE ARMY BY COMING TO BANGLADESH NOT FROM USA.I AM CERTAIN YOU WILL END UP IN A DGFI CELL*


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## leonblack08

azmax007 said:


> lmao! where did you get that information? For your information they spend A LOT more. I have high-ranking family members in the military... and well, let's just say Bangladeshi Military keeps a lot of things hidden away. We don't need to show the world all our weapons. There's a lot of things they do behind the scenes in Bangladesh and they don't want the world to know what they do, or how much they spend, or what they are capable of.



Yes our army keeps lot of things secret.


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## azmax007

leonblack08 said:


> Yes our army keeps lot of things secret.



yeah let India think we have a weak military, that way they're eyes are not us. As long as BD is not seen as a threat it'll only help Bangladesh get stronger.


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## Raquib

azmax007 said:


> yeah let India think we have a weak military, that way they're eyes are not us. As long as BD is not seen as a threat it'll only help Bangladesh get stronger.



yea, right...the Bangladesh military has done a great job by not disclosing about all their important stuffs...sounds wise...


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## M_Saint

leonblack08 said:


> Can you name any single general in BD army who lead a war??
> All those who participated in 1971 are either dead or retired.So shut your mouth and stop blaming the army for the loss of BNP.
> 
> *IF YOU HAVE GUTS THEN CRITICISE THE ARMY BY COMING TO BANGLADESH NOT FROM USA.I AM CERTAIN YOU WILL END UP IN A DGFI CELL*


Why don't you tell me which one has put three stars in his shoulder in past? And who has promoted himself like MUA? 

Air Cheif Fakhrul Azam didn't die or retired volunteerily but was forced out by MUA Mo Fo.

*Now tell MUA or any other DGFI bastard to come to any third country and I'll fight with him by any rational term. If I can't beat those cowards then you'll have my head but if I can make MUA bastard complete bold and parade him naked then I'll have yours, deal?*


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## idune

What is called &#8220;small boat&#8221; here is actually high speed missile craft are vital for coastal defense and doctrine. Every navy with brown water (some blue water as well) profile has it. This is a cheap and fast way to make coastal deterrence. BN has and will have requirements for these types of boat for foreseeable future. Although we desperately need to get better one with better tech and missile systems.

As for defense budget and spending Bangladesh is way behind of Pakistan and lots of catching upto do. Bangladeshi and Pakistani GDP I think irrelevant in this discussion because regardless of GDP size (which may be close or getting closer) threat perception and requirements for Bangladesh and Pakistan are different. But we do face the same enemy. 

Bangladesh has not built a frigate size ship but could do so in near future. But just building hull with engine does not mean anything for a warship. Armaments, sensors and other bells and whistles are most important and we do not have our own capability. Bangladesh and Pakistan can and probably does co operate in naval development and acquisition which is vital for future. Then again political cause and leaning will be big factor since Dec 29.


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## idune

leonblack08 said:


> *IF YOU HAVE GUTS THEN CRITICISE THE ARMY BY COMING TO BANGLADESH NOT FROM USA.I AM CERTAIN YOU WILL END UP IN A DGFI CELL*



You may get your wish....just watch what Hasina does.....if anything that going to save GMUA skin would be the fact that both Awami and GMUA has common master - india. 

Other than that GMUA is wanted by BNP and Awami activists alike. Just go to DU and ask a Chattra league activist.


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## leonblack08

idune said:


> What is called small boat here is actually high speed missile craft are vital for coastal defense and doctrine. Every navy with brown water (some blue water as well) profile has it. This is a cheap and fast way to make coastal deterrence. BN has and will have requirements for these types of boat for foreseeable future. Although we desperately need to get better one with better tech and missile systems.
> 
> As for defense budget and spending Bangladesh is way behind of Pakistan and lots of catching upto do. Bangladeshi and Pakistani GDP I think irrelevant in this discussion because regardless of GDP size (which may be close or getting closer) threat perception and requirements for Bangladesh and Pakistan are different. But we do face the same enemy.
> 
> Bangladesh has not built a frigate size ship but could do so in near future. But just building hull with engine does not mean anything for a warship. Armaments, sensors and other bells and whistles are most important and we do not have our own capability. Bangladesh and Pakistan can and probably does co operate in naval development and acquisition which is vital for future. Then again political cause and leaning will be big factor since Dec 29.




Yes these Fast boats are really useful.We can use them just as the Iran's revolutionary guards uses.

Bangladesh and Pakistan is already cooperating in building ships.We will just have to see if that continues.

Bangladesh has one other and most likely adversary,Myanmar.Chances of BD-Myanmar war is way more than BD-India war.


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## ahmeddsid

leonblack08 said:


> Yes these Fast boats are really useful.We can use them just as the Iran's revolutionary guards uses.
> 
> Bangladesh and Pakistan is already cooperating in building ships.We will just have to see if that continues.
> 
> Bangladesh has one other and most likely adversary,Myanmar.Chances of BD-Myanmar war is way more than BD-India war.


There will be no BD India war! Its just nonsense spread by someone without a proper day job. India is never a threat for BD I believe. The common enemy is Fundamentalism. We all are facing it, be it Muslim terrorists, or Hindu Terrorists.


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## leonblack08

ahmeddsid said:


> There will be no BD India war! Its just nonsense spread by someone without a proper day job. India is never a threat for BD I believe. The common enemy is Fundamentalism. We all are facing it, be it Muslim terrorists, or Hindu Terrorists.




We can't entirely blow the probability.The war is possible if BJP and other extremist hindu parties come to power in India.However chances are still very less.
But can't say anything about border conflicts,they will happen.


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## ju87

leonblack08 said:


> We can't entirely blow the probability.The war is possible if BJP and other extremist hindu parties come to power in India.However chances are still very less.
> But can't say anything about border conflicts,they will happen.



The BJP was in power for 5 years from 99-04. Didn't see any war. Trust me, India isn't interested in a war with Bangladesh. There simply isn't any strategic value.


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## Admal Keyani

It is good to hear that Pakistan and Bangladesh have good defence ties what has happened in the past has happened now we must look to the future and work as Brothers and become strong Nations, inshallah we will achieve it with God's blessing.

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## azmax007

ju87 said:


> The BJP was in power for 5 years from 99-04. Didn't see any war. Trust me, India isn't interested in a war with Bangladesh. There simply isn't any strategic value.



I agree with you, India will inherit damages if she destroys Bangladesh. India will have sanctions from other nations, and the jihadis from Bangladesh will have an excuse to bomb India along with other rogue Islamists. But how come India doesn't step up and lift the ban on Bangladeshi products?


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## ahmeddsid

azmax007 said:


> I agree with you, India will inherit damages if she destroys Bangladesh. India will have sanctions from other nations, and the jihadis from Bangladesh will have an excuse to bomb India along with other rogue Islamists. But how come India doesn't step up and lift the ban on Bangladeshi products?


ban on bangla products? please provide a link so that i can read and understand better.


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## azmax007

ahmeddsid said:


> ban on bangla products? please provide a link so that i can read and understand better.



The 3rd world view


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## ahmeddsid

azmax007 said:


> The 3rd world view


?? where is it said that Bangla Products are banned??? Its a blog right not a news source! and It was reported before that Arab Channels are banned, but I get Al Jazeera and Saudi Channel 1 in India! Bangla channels need to fulfill some procedures before they can be aired! Come on, Indian channels are famous everywhere, its just a ploy by the Bangla tv channels to stop the entry on Indian channels!


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## rubyjackass

azmax007 said:


> I agree with you, India will inherit damages if she destroys Bangladesh. India will have sanctions from other nations, and the jihadis from Bangladesh will have an excuse to bomb India along with other rogue Islamists. But how come India doesn't step up and lift the ban on Bangladeshi products?


Totally uncalled for... False fears...
India can have no reason to destroy Bangladesh. 

About the ban...
I don't think any ban exists. If a channel applies with the government, they can broadcast even collecting user charges. Many channels in India are paid. 
I think the reason why you don't see many Bangladesh channels in India is because the cable operators all over India cannot provide too many channels to customers. After all they manage the network very locally with few dishes. And there are already too many Indian channels to choose from.
With the entry of DTH in India, I think you will see more Bangla channels in India.


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## rubyjackass

Also there are too many languages in India. Cable operators try to cover most languages especially in urban areas. So they can provide less of other channels. 
In Bangladesh all they can have is Bangla and English channels(You may want to correct me on this). So they get to see Hindi and Indian channels.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

Bangladesh is our stategick partner. And a reliable friend... Same is the Case for China and Sirilanka..


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## TopCat

rubyjackass said:


> Also there are too many languages in India. Cable operators try to cover most languages especially in urban areas. So they can provide less of other channels.
> In Bangladesh all they can have is Bangla and English channels(You may want to correct me on this). So they get to see Hindi and Indian channels.



No, in Bangladesh we get Bangla (Bangaldeshi/Indian), English, Hindi(Indian), Urdu(pakistan), Arabic(KSA and other dont know). Farsi(Iran), German, Italian, Spanish, Russians.. Sometimes we could even get to see some south indian and srilankan TV.


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## TopCat

rubyjackass said:


> Totally uncalled for... False fears...
> India can have no reason to destroy Bangladesh.
> 
> About the ban...
> I don't think any ban exists. If a channel applies with the government, they can broadcast even collecting user charges. Many channels in India are paid.
> I think the reason why you don't see many Bangladesh channels in India is because the cable operators all over India cannot provide too many channels to customers. After all they manage the network very locally with few dishes. And there are already too many Indian channels to choose from.
> With the entry of DTH in India, I think you will see more Bangla channels in India.



Wrong... BD channels have huge demand in Calcutta and other NE states.. These were categorically discouraged...
Other BD products, India always plays cat and mouse games. Like they say you can export, but in NE indian importer was barred to open LC to BD. Also Indian Government put anti dumping on BD products. They also put some testing criteria (intentionally) to discourage BD imports. Indian government also never allowed until recently, Bangladeshi investment in India. If you were a businessman you will know how hard it is to export in India..

The only reason India does not say You Cant Export is that Bangladesh Import 3 Billion dollar worth of goods from India even though they are mostly essential items like spices and raw materials..


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## azmax007

iajdani said:


> Wrong... BD channels have huge demand in Calcutta and other NE states.. These were categorically discouraged...
> Other BD products, India always plays cat and mouse games. Like they say you can export, but in NE indian importer was barred to open LC to BD. Also Indian Government put anti dumping on BD products. They also put some testing criteria (intentionally) to discourage BD imports. Indian government also never allowed until recently, Bangladeshi investment in India. If you were a businessman you will know how hard it is to export in India..
> 
> The only reason India does not say You Cant Export is that Bangladesh Import 3 Billion dollar worth of goods from India even though they are mostly essential items like spices and raw materials..



Can't wait to see the day when that $3 billion in exports to BD becomes $3 million; it'll hurt some significant companies in India. More and more industries in Bangladesh are opening up and people would rather buy local cheap materials then import them from India.


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## Imran Khan

last 30 posts there is no post on *BANGLADESH-PAKISTAN DEFENCE RELATIONS
* were are mods please close this guys don't have more any thing on topic.


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## leonblack08

imran khan said:


> last 30 posts there is no post on *BANGLADESH-PAKISTAN DEFENCE RELATIONS
> * were are mods please close this guys don't have more any thing on topic.



Agreed.
We should discuss more of BD-PAK defence and also strategic relations.


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## ajpirzada

i have read a news in which the new bangladeshi gov said that they want gud relations with pak. and i guess this was said by the PM in her speech. thats a great sign.


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## Raquib

Raquib said:


> Bangladesh and Pakistan to jointly build warships
> BMF Defence News - www.***************
> 
> In a major step forward for military to military cooperation Bangladesh and Pakistan are set to jointly build advanced missile armed warships.
> 
> Authorities of the Khulna Shipyard and Karachi Shipyard are cooperating with each other to build anti-ship missile armed, high speed attack vessels known as Fast Attack Craft according to anonymous sources in the Bangladesh military.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Specifications
> 
> Displacement: 250~300 tons
> Complement: 35
> Anti-Ship Missiles: 4 x C802 launchers
> Main Gun: Twin Anti-Aircraft Gun
> Radar: Fire Control Radar
> Maximum Speed: 32 knots
> Made in: Khulna (Bangladesh)
> 
> 
> 
> Topic: Bangladesh-Pakistan Fast Attack Craft Project - talknow.pl



doesnt it sound great..???
I'd always want to see a great Pak-Bangla friendship...

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## azmax007

ajpirzada said:


> i have read a news in which the new bangladeshi gov said that they want gud relations with pak. and i guess this was said by the PM in her speech. thats a great sign.



i wish, but she's a lying *****.


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## leonblack08

*Bangladesh buying ATGMs from Pakistan.*


*ATGM Baktar Shikan (BS) 8; items: 169 missiles and 3 launching units; transferred from Pakistan to Bangladesh in 2004 and 2005*


Delivery: 2004 - 2005
Origin: Pakistan
Destination: Bangladesh

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## HK-47

Iajdani it's our fault.Largely.We should ban their channels too.Most of them show crappy Hindi serials anyway what's the point subscribing to them?
and we are talking about BD-Pak relations not India destroying BD.
EDIT~yes yes the Indian customs could be a pain in the @$$ for our businessmen but that what happens living next to a regional power .

Back to topic:We need to revamp our Naval forces(both the Navy and the Coast Guard) and also take help from the Pakistanis in improving our border guard forces.Two Key things for our security.


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## gromell

Al-zakir said:


> It's true. They are half baked muslim with hindu mentality. They are also known to be awami follower, secularist indian dalal. They claim to be bangli first than muslim. They are musrik and rejected scum in our socity. This musrik sponsor hindu culture in the name of bangai culture. Those dalal has more acceptabilty in India than Banladesh. This dalal serve indian purpose. This dalal alway spread propagonda to label bangladesh as foundamentalist state. They are known to be enemy of islam and this bastard sould be wiped out soon inshallah as new generation of bangladeshi coming to power. Those musrik has no future in Bangladesh.



I feel sad as a Bangladeshi to read your post. How come a muslim calls another muslim mushrik?! I know awami supporters who are very religious Muslims. Bangladesh is being ruled by Awami League, with majority of parliamentary mandate, given by the new generation of Bengalis. Assuming that all supporters except those of BNP and Jamaat-e-islami are mushrik is really unislamic.


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## M_Saint

gromell said:


> I feel sad as a Bangladeshi to read your post. How come a muslim calls another muslim mushrik?! I know awami supporters who are very religious Muslims. Bangladesh is being ruled by Awami League, with majority of parliamentary mandate, given by the new generation of Bengalis.


Calling knowledgeable Rawamy Leaguers as Mushriks is completely legal by Islamic jurisdiction. You can't call them kafir BUT Mushrik, Oh yes. And I find it hard to believe that you have wealth of knowledge on Bengali matters but you don't understand that AL has come to power by 'FORCE and DECEPTION' but not by people's mandate as you have claimed.

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## Raquib

I think its a very good thread and should be made sticky... what say buddies??

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## Al-zakir

Raquib said:


> I think its a very good thread and should be made sticky... what say buddies??



Yes defiantly. Thanks for bringing it up. Can mod help us to make this happen, please!!!!!

Thanks in advance....


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## M_Saint

I couldn't figure out where exactly to ask the following question but since PAK-CHN had deeper relationship and BD MIL was making head way toward that direction, I decided to do it here--

Could someone please tell me if BD or PAK acquired the following goody from CHN?



*China seeks export customers for Yitian SHORAD system*
Christopher F Foss

During the IDEX 2009 defence equipment exhibition and conference held in the United Arab Emirates (UAE), China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) displayed two air-defence systems for the first time outside China. 

These were a truck-mounted twin 35 mm self-propelled anti-aircraft gun system called the CS/SA1 (based on the Rheinmetall Air Defence Oerlikon twin 35 mm GDF towed anti-aircraft gun) and the Yitian short-range air-defence (SHORAD) mobile air-defence system. 

The existence of the Yitian SHORAD was first revealed some four years ago, when the system was claimed to be still in the final stages of development. According to NORINCO, the system is now in service with the People's Liberation Army (PLA) and is being offered on the export market. 

In the form in which it was shown at IDEX, the missile system was integrated on the latest-generation NORINCO WMZ 551 (6x6) armoured personnel carrier (APC) chassis, but could be installed on other tracked or wheeled chassis. 

Used in significant numbers by the PLA, the WZ 551 has been exported to a number of countries around the world. Its flexible design allows it to be modified for a wide range of missions, including being fitted with a turret-mounted 105 mm gun for use in the direct-fire role. 

According to NORINCO, the Yitian SHORAD system has a combat weight of 16 tonnes. Its air-cooled diesel engine gives a maximum road speed of 100 km/h and a cruising range of up to 800 km. 

The vehicle shown at IDEX retained the full amphibious capability of the WMZ 551 and is propelled in the water by two shrouded propellers situated one either side at the rear that are also used for steering when afloat. However, the vehicle will have a very limited amphibious capability in its Yitian form due to the additional weight on top of the hull when compared to the baseline WMZ 551. 

Both the vehicle commander and driver are seated at the very front of the vehicle, with driver on the left and commander on the right. The commander also operates a remote-controlled 12.7 mm machine gun installed on the right side of the roof. Used typically for self-defence, this is laid on to the target using a flat-panel display and an associated hand controller. 

Banks of four electrically operated smoke-grenade launchers are installed on either side of the roof and cover the frontal arc. Standard equipment includes a land navigation system and a nuclear, biological and chemical (NBC) system. 

In the baseline WMZ 551, the main diesel powerpack is to the rear of the commander's and driver's position. It is located on the left side of the vehicle, allowing enough space for a small passageway to the right that allows access to the rear compartment. 

This passageway has been omitted from the Yitian vehicle. Due to the space taken up by the additional electronics and the auxiliary power unit needed to run the missile system when the main engine is switched off, there is no access between the front and rear areas of the vehicle. 

A remote-controlled turret mounted on the roof of the vehicle carries eight TY-90 fire-and-forget surface-to-air missiles (SAMs), mounted as banks of four on either side of the turret. Each missile is mounted in an individual container that serves for transport purposes and as a launcher. 

The TY-90 (Tian Yan - 'Heavenly Swallow') missile was originally developed by the China National Aero-Technology Import & Export Corporation for use in the air-to-air role from the Z-10 attack helicopter, although it has also been launched from a number of other helicopters. At one time, the TY-90 was thought to be a modified version of an existing shoulder-fired manportable SAM, but this is now clearly not the case. 

According to NORINCO, the TY-90 has a range of 500-6,000 m with altitude limits from 15 m up to 4,000 m. Maximum speed is Mach 2.2 and the single-shot kill probability is 80 per cent. 

The missile's nose-mounted infrared seeker was developed by the Luoyang Optoelectro Technology Development Center. It uses an indium antimonide (InSb) detector and is reported to provide an all-aspect capability. An expanding-rod warhead initiated by a laser proximity fuze is reported to have a kill radius of 4 m. 

Although the system has been designed to engage fixed- and rotary-wing targets, according to NORINCO it is also capable of detecting and engaging other aerial targets such as unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and even cruise missiles. 

An advanced electro-optical package is mounted between the two four-round banks of missiles. Above this is the antenna of a 3-D X-band tracking radar that can be folded down for transport. 

NORINCO claims that the radar has a maximum range of up to 18 km against a fighter-sized aircraft and up to 8 km against a typical cruise-missile target. 

The electro-optical package includes day and thermal devices, a laser rangefinder and an automatic target tracker. The example shown at IDEX did not have any devices to keep the optics clear in bad weather. 

According to NORINCO, the electro-optical package can detect a typical aircraft target out to a range of about 12 km and start tracking at a range of about 10 km, but these figures depend on the ambient weather conditions. 

Two operators are seated in the very rear of the vehicle; each has a display and associated controls that include command, control, communications, computers and intelligence (C4I) and communications systems. 

In a typical engagement, the surveillance radar would detect the target. If this were confirmed as hostile, it would be assigned to the electro-optical tracker, who would continue to track the target. 

Once the target was within the effective range of the TY-90 missile, it would be engaged. The system can deal with targets flying at speeds of up to 400 m/s and the overall system reaction time is being quoted as six to eight seconds. 

Although it would normally be integrated into an overall air-defence system, Yitian can be used as a stand-alone system. It could also operate with its radar switched off, receiving target information from another sensor. The system can be used to defend high-value static areas or to defend mobile columns. 

A typical Yitian SHORAD battery would consist of a headquarters section with a command-post vehicle, six Yitian SHORAD systems, missile resupply vehicles, a missile-testing and maintenance vehicle and a mechanical/electronic maintenance vehicle. 

The command-post vehicle is also based on a modified WMZ 551 chassis. It has a raised roof at the rear and is fitted with a SHORAD surveillance radar. An IBIS-80 truck-mounted surveillance radar is being offered as an option. 

The TY-90 SAM is also used on the NORINCO Giant Bow II air-defence system. This consists of a battery command-post vehicle (BCPV), AS901A 3-D radar, Giant Bow II TY-90 launchers and Giant Bow II twin 23 mm light anti-aircraft guns. The latter are the Chinese version of the widely deployed Russian ZU-23-2 LAAG. 

The BCPV has a roof-mounted electro-optical package that can track the air threat for subsequent engagement by the Giant Bow II TY-90 launchers. The latter is based on a similar two-wheeled carriage and has a total of four ready-to-launch TY-90 SAMs. These missiles are launched from rails rather than the sealed container/launcher used by Yitian. 

In a typical target engagement, the TY-90 missiles would be used to engage targets at longer ranges with the 23 mm LAAG being used to engage close-in targets, as well as having a secondary ground role.


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## DarkStar

from now one, THIS THREAD IS STRICTLY PAK-BANGLA RELATIONS. ANY OFF TOPIC NOT ALLOWED.


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## Al-zakir

*Bangladesh seeks joint efforts with Pakistan*

DHAKA, March 28 (APP)- Bangladesh will discuss with Pakistan and other neighbouring countries in South Asia to explore means to stop terrorist financing and fight militancy.

State Minister for Home Affairs Tanzim Ahmed Sohel Taj told newsmen that Bangladesh will discuss with the neighbouring countries to find ways to strengthen its effort in tackling financial supports to extremists and combating terrorism.

Dhaka would also raise its earlier proposal of Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina for constituting a regional task force to fight terrorism in South Asia under an intensified regional cooperation.

Taj, however, said terrorist activities of the extremist religious groups were now under control despite as an intensified security campaign was underway to uproot the militancy.

Ruling Awami League in its election manifesto suggested formation of a South Asian task force to fight militancy while the new government last month okayed a tough anti-terrorism ordinance enacted by the past interim government to fight terrorism suggesting death penalties to terrorists after trial in special speedy tribunals.

The Anti-Terrorism Ordinance also empowered Bangladesh Bank to freeze accounts of suspected terrorists and their monetary transactions through banking systems.

Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan's Premier NEWS Agency ) - Bangladesh seeks joint efforts with Pakistan

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## Al-zakir

*Pakistan envoy discusses parliamentary affairs with Bangladesh Speaker*

DHAKA, April 23 (APP) - High Commissioner of Pakistan to Bangladesh Alamgir Babar called on Speaker of the parliament Abdul Hamid at the latters office in Dhaka Wednesday.

They discussed matters of mutual interests with particular reference to the parliamentary affairs of the two countries, said an official announcement of the Bangladesh parliament secretariat in Dhaka Thursday.

The Speaker informed the Pakistani envoy that the 9th parliament started functioning smoothly with 48 different committees on different ministries and parliamentary affairs.

He said, I am contemplating to allocate some more seats in the front row for the opposition in spite of their small number in parliament.

Abdul Hamid also said that the members of the opposition were given more time to speak in the first session and they have no complaint about this.

He pointed out that the Leader of the Opposition Khaleda Zia was given one hour and 40 minutes whereas Leader of the House Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina was given one hour and 15 minutes on the concluding day of the session.

The Pakistan envoy highly appreciated the steps taken by the present government towards bringing about a change in politics and decision making.

He expressed hope that Bangladesh will make rapid progress in all sectors in the days ahead under the parliamentary democratic system.

Secretary of the Parliament Secretariat Ashfaque Hamid and other concerned officials were present on the occasion.


Associated Press Of Pakistan ( Pakistan&#039;s Premier NEWS Agency )


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## Rasel

*PAKBANGLA this 2 nation will become world's strongest they need to corprate more together. Bangladesh need more provement.. Pakistan should give them help.. And Pak do give. Masa Allah !*


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## khabib

leonblack08 said:


> *Bangladesh buying ATGMs from Pakistan.*
> 
> 
> *ATGM Baktar Shikan (BS) 8; items: 169 missiles and 3 launching units; transferred from Pakistan to Bangladesh in 2004 and 2005*
> 
> 
> Delivery: 2004 - 2005
> Origin: Pakistan
> Destination: Bangladesh




In facts all those happen during Past BNP period. All that took place the improved defence relation with China and Pak are now growing in reverse order with Awami League in power.

It is highly unlikely that present AL govt will buy and hardware or developed any defence relation with Pakistan. So, all the talk about
buying more ATGM or Other weapons from pakistan and some joint venture to make naval ship would not materialize during AL time.


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## leonblack08

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And also please check his IP address.


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## Patriot

leonblack08 said:


> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> And also please check his IP address.


No doubt in my mind that he is Indian.There was some member who joined few months ago as a Pakistani and abused Bangladeshis and it turned out the ip of that user was Indian!I have seen a lot of indians trying to incite hatred between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.

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## leonblack08

Patriot said:


> No doubt in my mind that he is Indian.There was some member who joined few months ago as a Pakistani and abused Bangladeshis and it turned out the ip of that user was Indian!I have seen a lot of indians trying to incite hatred between Pakistanis and Bangladeshis.



Plus just today there was am Indian member banned for anti-Islam and anti-MOD remarks in BD section.I have the feeling this is the same guy/gal.


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## Jako

welcome to the site sir,pakistani bachcha bole jar kotha apni bolchen she holo nitantoi ekti exception........i know that he would be banned very soon.......apni ektu ei site-ta ghure dekhun,tahole dekhben mod-ra sotyi valo kaj koren.......tobe ami apnar ei kotha gulo bolar karon-keo kono dosh di-na,karon apni ja dekhechen ta bolechen......tobe ekjon-ke dekhe sobai-ke jachai korben na......karon onek valo pakistani-o ache,ami nije indian hoye e kotha bolchi....dhonyobad

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## Jako

R sir, pakistani site eta.....ektu to bias paben-e ekhane!


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## Hyde

is user "Bangladeshi Army" also the same guy who is just banned or his posts deleted "Pakistani Bacha" ?

If he is same then why don't u just ban his IP Address instead of a user name?


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## Jako

Mr X said:


> is user "Bangladeshi Army" also the same guy who is just banned or his posts deleted "Pakistani Bacha" ?
> 
> If he is same then why don't u just ban his IP Address instead of a user name?



no he is not that guy,most probably.....he is a bangladeshi ex-armyman(as he proclaims)


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## BANGLADESHI ARMY

see, the reactionary class has arisen. now they will start disturbing my writing by any excuses.

mr. x's excuse also aided my words.

this is what they can do.in bangladesh defence matter even, they dont wanna let us use bengali like the same they didnt let us use bengali as national language upto 1956.

isnt it autocracy?excess comment is immaterial.


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## Hyde

BANGLADESHI ARMY said:


> see, the reactionary class has arisen. now they will start disturbing my writing by any excuses.
> 
> mr. x's excuse also aided my words.
> 
> this is what they can do.in bangladesh defence matter even, they dont wanna let us use bengali like the same they didnt let us use bengali as national language upto 1956.
> 
> isnt it autocracy?excess comment is immaterial.



 listen Sir, i did not mean to disrespect anybody. You do not know what "Pakistani Bacha" did a few hours ago and the way you wrote is also similar so i thought it could be same person. Now about Bengali language, the post you made was very long and it used some controversial words that i thought whatever rubbish "Pakistani Bacha" had said is the bengali version of the same story.

Here all the users write only in English so everybody can understand and rarely use Urdu actually i saw it first time when PAKISTANI BACHA was swearing in Urdu language. So why not speak the language that all of us can understand? Also most of the users here Understand Urdu/Hindi but only few users understands Bangali.

Please do not start Hindu/Muslim and Bangali / Urdu arguments again 

Pakistan Zindabaad 

Bangladesh Zindabad 

 to Defence.pk

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## Al-zakir

BANGLADESHI ARMY said:


> see, the reactionary class has arisen. now they will start disturbing my writing by any excuses.
> 
> mr. x's excuse also aided my words.
> 
> this is what they can do.in bangladesh defence matter even, they dont wanna let us use bengali like the same they didnt let us use bengali as national language upto 1956.
> 
> isnt it autocracy?excess comment is immaterial.



Sir this is a international forum but still a pak defence.

Bangla will not be understand by majority of user in this forum thus English is preferable language though Urdu can be exception some time.

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## leonblack08

BANGLADESHI ARMY said:


> see, the reactionary class has arisen. now they will start disturbing my writing by any excuses.
> 
> mr. x's excuse also aided my words.
> 
> this is what they can do.in bangladesh defence matter even, they dont wanna let us use bengali like the same they didnt let us use bengali as national language upto 1956.
> 
> isnt it autocracy?excess comment is immaterial.



You need to right in English sir so that everyone here understands what you are writing.Its not only for Bangladeshi members,but also for every members with different nationalities.

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## Hyde

now i have no doubt this Guy "Pakistan Zindabad" is "Pakistain Bacha" who was banned yesterday

MODs: Please ban his IP Address this time


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## Gabbar

*^^^ Do not respond to this idiotic poster and spammer!!! BD and Bengali people are beautiful and nice!!!!*

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## Hyde

hahahaha thats why i was asking the MODs to ban his IP Address, now i think MODs do not have power to ban his IP and only Admins can do that.

Well no problem last reply from me, Why are you keeping Pakistani IDs Pak Warrior? or Pakistani Bacha or Pakistan Zindabaad?

Tell us your true identity instead of wasting your time here spreading rumours?


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## Al-zakir

17 July 2009 - 09:31 AM

*Gilani, Hasina discuss utilizing Pak-Bangladesh amity to strengthen diplomatic, trade links*

Submitted by Business Desk on July 17, 2009 - 13:30

Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani on Thursday said Pakistan attaches great importance to its relations with Bangladesh and stressed the need for utilizing the potential to increase cooperation in bilateral, diplomatic and economic sectors. In his meeting with Sheikh Hasina Wajid, the Prime Minister of Bangladesh on the sidelines of NAM summit here, the Prime Minister said the scope of relations between the two countries could be used to explore new avenues in business arena, as they enjoyed deep-rooted friendly relations based on shared faith and heritage.

Prime Minister Gilani said Pakistan and Bangladesh also share the objectives of promoting regional cooperation to accelerate development and prosperity, and mentioned that through regional organizations mainly SAARC, the two brotherly states could play an important role in bringing peace and harmony in South Asia.

Gilani also stressed the need for promoting people to people contacts for enhancing friendly relations between the two democratic and Muslim states.

Sheikh Hasina said Bangladesh values its close and friendly relations with Pakistan and desires to further strengthen relations with it at diplomatic, political, economic and trade levels.

She said there was a need for the two countries to harmonize competing economic interests at the multilateral fora, adding that while the political relations between Pakistan and Bangladesh were strong, they needed to be expanded by equally strong economic relationship.

Gilani, Hasina discuss utilizing Pak-Bangladesh amity to strengthen diplomatic, trade links | webnewswire.com


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## eastwatch

azmax007 said:


> Can't wait to see the day when that $3 billion in exports to BD becomes $3 million; it'll hurt some significant companies in India. More and more industries in Bangladesh are opening up and people would rather buy local cheap materials then import them from India.


Much of the Tk.74crore/day import from India consists of cotton, threads, textiles, shirtings, buttons, nylon threads and things like these. These items are necessary to the garments sector. They make finish products out of these primary goods, and then export a 10 billion dollar worth of finished goods to the world market per year.

However, whatever India supplies can also be supplied by Pakistan, too. Pakistan textile is very developed, its cotton is also of high quality. BD should strive for a better military as well as trade relationship with Pakistan. At the recent Colombo SAARC meeting, India has proposed a rail-link between BD and Pakistan via India and Nepal. It will certainly improve the trade relationship between BD and Pakistan.


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## eastwatch

HASINA INVITES GILANI TO VISIT BD 
Sunday, August 30,2009 

ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister of Bangladesh, Sheikh Hasina Wajid has extended a cordial invitation to Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani to visit Bangladesh at his earliest convenience. In her letter conveying the invitation she has recalled her very useful and excellent meeting with the Prime Minister in Sharm El-Sheikh last month for their discussions not only on the whole gamut of bilateral relations but also for recapturing the memories of close relationship that their fathers had in the past.

According to APP, Sheikh Hasina has expressed a keen desire for reinvigorating the bilateral ties between Pakistan and Bangladesh and has suggested that the present generation of leadership of the two countries should undertake bold steps to take the bilateral relations to a genuinely meaningful level.

She stressed that the opportunities and potential for cooperation between Bangladesh and Pakistan were immense and they must be utilized to the mutual advantage of both the countries.

The Prime Minister of Pakistan has accepted the invitation and the mutually convenient time frame of his visit to Bangladesh will be decided through consultations between the two Foreign Offices.


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## naseebkhanniazi

i want to know that is there any development between these two counterys in defence

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## naseebkhanniazi

i want to know that is there any development between these two counterys in defence

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## TopCat

I think they are jointly building missile boats in KSY. They also have co-operation in Tank upgradation. There are also some other myths but I have no concrete proof.


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## Al-zakir

Bangladeshi scholar for improved ties between Pakistan and Bangladesh

Staff Report

KARACHI: Bangladeshi scholar, solidarity activist and founder member of the South Asia Alliance for Poverty Eradication Mohiuddin Ahmad has demanded settlement of at least a few cases of war crimes as symbols of justice and appeasement between Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Addressing the gathering at a lecture, The current socio-political situation in Bangladesh and its implications for South Asian region that was jointly organised by the Pakistan Institute of Labour Education and Research and the Pakistan Institute of International Affairs (PIIA) and was held at the PIIA Library on Sunday, Ahmad said that most of the political parties in Bangladesh, including the ruling Awami League, had pledged to form war tribunals in their election manifestos.

The people living in Bangladesh who were involved in heinous war crimes should not be spared, he said, adding that genocide against humanity was a serious crime and whoever perpetrated and supported those crimes should be brought to justice.

Ahmad disclosed that most of the Bangladeshi youth have never discussed these issues. We, the older generation, are still obsessed with the issues of the past, he said, adding that the Bangladeshi region was ruled for 500 years by Delhi, 200 by London and 25 by Pindi, but the recent memory was still quite bitter.

Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina Wajed had proposed the formation of South Asian Anti-terrorism Taskforce, but India does not agree with the proposal, Ahmad said, adding that the South Asian Transport Grid was a fine option whereby a train service from Chittagong to Karachi could be started.

Ahmad also said that former Indian prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee had proposed a common South Asian currency, but that proposal was not discussed further.

Instead of trying to assimilate or resolve problems at the summit level, we can start at the level of the common people, he added.

Ahmad further said that after the independence, the living standard of the common people in Bangladesh had improved, but there is still the issue of poverty and many other social indicators that are a cause of concern, adding that the economic conditions of Bangladesh were much better and the recent recession all over the world had not impacted it much.

Ahmad explained that the most important thing was the increase in visibility of the women in every sphere of the society, since most of the workers in the formal sector were women.

In our cabinet, besides the prime minister, most of the important ministries, like foreign, labour and agriculture, are held by women, he added.

Talking about the differences between Pakistan and Bangladesh, Ahmad said that there was no elitism in the Bangladeshi society and that the common people also have a shot at ruling the country, which is not yet possible in Pakistan.

He also said that a middle class emerged in Bangladesh in the 1960s, which now has considerable strength in politics.

Ahmad said that although Bangladesh was also trying to deal with religious extremism, but the situation was still not as bad as in Pakistan, adding that the government had officially provided funds to madressahs in the 1990s, provided government jobs to religious leaders and some youth from Bangladeshi madressahs had gone to fight the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) in Afghanistan, but the government had now introduced reforms in the religious education of madressahs.

Ahmad further said that under the First Education Policy being prepared by the present Bangladeshi government, six subjects had been made compulsory that would be also be taught by religious schools so their students could also get jobs besides Pesh-Imam of mosques.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## naseebkhanniazi

is there any deal on jf 17s with bangladesh and the deal of al khalid please tell me if any one have news about both countrys deal THANK's

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## naseebkhanniazi

dear members if boliva is going to buy k8 then why not bangladesh. becaus now a days bangladesh need tranir aircrafts i think k8 is good for them i need to know your opinion please...........

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## leonblack08

naseebkhanniazi said:


> dear members if boliva is going to buy k8 then why not bangladesh. becaus now a days bangladesh need tranir aircrafts i think k8 is good for them i need to know your opinion please...........



Bangladesh Air force is looking to buy L-159 super albatros.We already train with L-39.


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## naseebkhanniazi

leonblack08 said:


> Bangladesh Air force is looking to buy L-159 super albatros.We already train with L-39.



is this good then k8 or on less price ?

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## leonblack08

naseebkhanniazi said:


> is this good then k8 or on less price ?



As far as I know,they are competitors.So their price and quality may almost be same.

May I suggest you to visit,Bangladesh-Pakistan defence relation thread,which is sticky.
It may give you some hint of your other queries.


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## Student

Pakistan should not sell any defence related equipment to BD.


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## BATMAN

Are there any risks associated with selling defence products to B.D.?
IMO, B.D. is in similar situation as of Pakistan that its civilian leadership is engineered by axis of evil and they are under indian superemacy but again attempts are being made to make Pakistan subserviant to foreign states.


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## Student

BATMAN said:


> Are there any risks associated with selling defence products to B.D.?
> IMO, B.D. is in similar situation as of Pakistan that its civilian leadership is engineered by axis of evil and they are under indian superemacy but again attempts are being made to make Pakistan subserviant to foreign states.



The risk risk associated with selling defence products such as aircraft or missile will be they will end up directly in Indian Hands.


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## TopCat

Student said:


> The risk risk associated with selling defence products such as aircraft or missile will be they will end up directly in Indian Hands.



Well mr. student, why not stop trolling and throwing one liners. Its really much more fun if you get involved in a constructive discussion.

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## Student

iajdani said:


> Well mr. student, why not stop trolling and throwing one liners. Its really much more fun if you get involved in a constructive discussion.



Well Mr iajdani stop acting like you are a MOD here. My point is there is no need for pakistan to do any joint military development with BD because they are more closely associated with india than Pakistan and any such cooperation will lead to leaking of secrets to the Indians that we cannot afford at any price.


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## amna

student has a point. the awami league or whatever are extremely pro-india, and any technology sold to BD will end up being scrutinized by indians in no time. we can sell them some low-tech items though and make some money off their desperation for arms.


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## MadDog

Pakistan has sold Bangladesh a system which combines the data from all radars and shows it on a screen...it was even displayed at IDEAS 2008.


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## eastwatch

Student said:


> Well Mr iajdani stop acting like you are a MOD here. My point is there is no need for pakistan to do any joint military development with BD because they are more closely associated with india than Pakistan and any such cooperation will lead to leaking of secrets to the Indians that we cannot afford at any price.


Why do you think it is not necessary for Pakistan to go for any joint development of military hardwares with BD? Is it because, the technology will go to India? The reality is, had our relationship with India was so good, then we would not need any such equipments.

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## Al-zakir

Student said:


> My point is there is no need for pakistan to do any joint military development with BD because they are more closely associated with india than Pakistan and any such cooperation will lead to leaking of secrets to the Indians that we cannot afford at any price.



Well we are building small attack boat with Pakistani help as we speak. If bd was close with India than how is that Pakistan helping us to strengthen our military?


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## leonblack08

MadDog said:


> Pakistan has sold Bangladesh a system which combines the data from all radars and shows it on a screen...it was even displayed at IDEAS 2008.



Is it called C4ISR?I have read about it recently.


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## MZUBAIR

Pak sold spare parts of F-6 (Nanchang -6) in 2000 n 2002.
I also heard PAF will offer Nanchang A-5 Fantan (Q 5) to BD or Srilanka next year when the 2 sqd of JF-17 will be up.

BD already have 10 - 14 Nanchang A-5 Fantan with same config as PAF have.

Pakistan also helped BD tu upgrade their old type79 tanks to alzarar level.

* Reference link : - bangladesh plans major defence purchases*

Good oppertunity to deal with Pak


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## gromell

MZUBAIR said:


> Pak sold spare parts of F-6 (Nanchang -6) in 2000 n 2002.
> I also heard PAF will offer Nanchang A-5 Fantan (Q 5) to BD or Srilanka next year when the 2 sqd of JF-17 will be up.
> 
> BD already have 10 - 14 Nanchang A-5 Fantan with same config as PAF have.
> 
> Pakistan also helped BD tu upgrade their old type79 tanks to alzarar level.
> 
> * Reference link : - bangladesh plans major defence purchases*
> 
> Good oppertunity to deal with Pak



"Al zarrar level" is an upgrade for chinese type 59 tanks, not 79. Bangladesh has upgraded A-5c. I am not sure if Bangladesh would want Pakistan's A-5c's, if they want more A-5c in the first place... Bangladesh should look for better air crafts. It was close to buying Su-27, only for politicians it had to settle for Chengdu F-7 I think.


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## Kompromat

I think , There should'nt be any Joint development with BD ,because we lack a thing called Trust!

we do have a good relationship with BD and i personally regard them as my Brothers , But unfortunately i have less often received that kind of treatment from them on many occasions .

They lean towards Indians and feel more closer to them than Pakistanies , i have seen them Cracking jokes about Situation in Pakistan and Specially they are intrested in Baluchistan too much!!

I could'nt understand anything else apart from the fact that they enjoyed the Chaos and Bloodshed in Pakistan . I never heard anything sympathetic from them but Whishpers and Mean comments , i dont know why i always carried a feeling that in any war senario they would'nt stand with us!

But

I do hope that we may forget the past and move forward and reach to a point where we can Put Bangladesh in our favour.

Regards:


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## Kompromat

Al-zakir said:


> Well we are building small attack boat with Pakistani help as we speak. If bd was close with India than how is that Pakistan helping us to strengthen our military?



Man seriously we want to see you Stronger , but you must except the element which lies in your countrymen and leans them towards Indians.
Pakistan and BD must develop trust and then move on to a strategic partnership .
Even i would say BD should allow PAF to fly from there and have an Airbase.

In any war sanario BD should stand with Pakistan and provide assistance.

Powerfull BD is in our favour.
regards:

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## khabib

Black blood said:


> I think , There should'nt be any Joint development with BD ,because we lack a thing called Trust!
> 
> we do have a good relationship with BD and i personally regard them as my Brothers , But unfortunately i have less often received that kind of treatment from them on many occasions .
> 
> They lean towards Indians and feel more closer to them than Pakistanies , i have seen them Cracking jokes about Situation in Pakistan and Specially they are intrested in Baluchistan too much!!
> 
> I could'nt understand anything else apart from the fact that they enjoyed the Chaos and Bloodshed in Pakistan . I never heard anything sympathetic from them but Whishpers and Mean comments , i dont know why i always carried a feeling that in any war senario they would'nt stand with us!
> 
> But
> 
> I do hope that we may forget the past and move forward and reach to a point where we can Put Bangladesh in our favour.
> 
> Regards:



I am sorry that you felt that way with Bangladeshi and my appology for that. If you look at this forum even casually, you will change your mind. Most of the Bangladeshi, we take pakistani as our brother too.
Just see the reaction of Pakistani player when they play in Bangladesh. For them it is felt like playing in Pakistan.
I believe that speak for the Bangladeshi.

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## Al-zakir

Black blood said:


> Man seriously we want to see you Stronger , but you must except the element which lies in your countrymen and leans them towards Indians.
> Pakistan and BD must develop trust and then move on to a strategic partnership .
> Even i would say BD should allow PAF to fly from there and have an Airbase.
> 
> In any war sanario BD should stand with Pakistan and provide assistance.
> 
> Powerfull BD is in our favour.
> regards:



I do agree that there is a segment in our population in love with hindus for some unexplain phenamena. We have come a long way and Insh'allah will get better over time. Do not be discuraged by left leaning politician. Armed force of Bd is islamic influenced so are the idology of Bd. 



> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> I think , There should'nt be any Joint development with BD ,because we lack a thing called Trust!
> 
> we do have a good relationship with BD and i personally regard them as my Brothers , But unfortunately i have less often received that kind of treatment from them on many occasions .
> 
> They lean towards Indians and feel more closer to them than Pakistanies , i have seen them Cracking jokes about Situation in Pakistan and Specially they are intrested in Baluchistan too much!!
> 
> I could'nt understand anything else apart from the fact that they enjoyed the Chaos and Bloodshed in Pakistan . I never heard anything sympathetic from them but Whishpers and Mean comments , i dont know why i always carried a feeling that in any war senario they would'nt stand with us!
> 
> But
> 
> I do hope that we may forget the past and move forward and reach to a point where we can Put Bangladesh in our favour.
> 
> Regards:



No saint bangladeshi muslim would be happy about the situation in Pak. We cry when you guys cry, we laugh when you laugh. Do not be discuraged by some low life malaun minded scum that idendify them self as muslim. 

At the end, a weaker pakistan means a weaker bd as well. So it our desire that Pakistan stay strong and united Insh'Allah.

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## graphican

Student said:


> Pakistan should not sell any defence related equipment to BD.



And what is your reason of thinking so?


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## graphican

gromell said:


> "Al zarrar level" is an upgrade for chinese type 59 tanks, not 79. Bangladesh has upgraded A-5c. I am not sure if Bangladesh would want Pakistan's A-5c's, if they want more A-5c in the first place... Bangladesh should look for better air crafts. It was close to buying Su-27, only for politicians it had to settle for Chengdu F-7 I think.



If Bangladesh feels threatened from India, what is use of those Aircraft that Pakistan is itself leaving out. If BD can hold on to SU-27, it must do so. Building pile of scrap would not be an answer to Indian MKI.


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## gromell

khabib said:


> I am sorry that you felt that way with Bangladeshi and my appology for that. If you look at this forum even casually, you will change your mind. Most of the Bangladeshi, we take pakistani as our brother too.
> Just see the reaction of Pakistani player when they play in Bangladesh. For them it is felt like playing in Pakistan.
> I believe that speak for the Bangladeshi.



How do "all" Bangladeshis in this forum represent Bangladesh? 20-30 Bangladeshis in a Pakistan defence forum speak for over 150 million Bangladeshis?? Did you just say that to make Black blood happy? I hope you did otherwise it would be a bad joke. The reason for Bangladeshis supporting pakistan cricket team has nothing to do with the love of pakistan. Most Bangladeshis are Argentina's fan in soccer. Does that mean they love Argentina as a country or support what their government do? and what is this matter of loving one country more than other ?! isnt that childish??? the only war Bangladesh had was with Pakistan and why would Bangladesh love Pakistan more than other neighboring countries?!!

Muslims in Bangladesh do not make fun of another muslim's sufferings anywhere in the world. But Pakistanis laugh about Bangladeshi muslims suffering from natural disasters as they always did. When there was earthquake in northern pakistan, Bangladeshi muslims joined pakistanis in north america to raise funds for those poor people. but Bangladeshis dont crack jokes about muslims getting killed in the jumma prayer at a masjid in NWFP! It was me who was more sad than my pakistani frnds here. None of them was speaking about it cause they were ashamed of these things happening in their country. I know so many awami league supporters who support pakistan cricket team and are fans of wasim akram or waqar younis. Younis or Wasim or hanif Mohammad or Imran Khan have fan in india too! how could one sum up Bangladeshis' "one way unconditional love" towards pakistan from the love of a sport and some legendary sports personalities???


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## mjnaushad

Nobody can deny that there are pro Indian elements in BD govt and politics. But if we help BD in building its military those elements will automatically turn pro Pakistani.


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## TopCat

mjnaushad said:


> Nobody can deny that there are pro Indian elements in BD govt and politics. But if we help BD in building its military those elements will automatically turn pro Pakistani.



There is no rule that a pro indian cant be a pro pakistani at the same time. This is not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of them in this category or I could say majority of them.


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## eastwatch

Black blood said:


> I think , There should'nt be any Joint development with BD ,because we lack a thing called Trust!
> 
> we do have a good relationship with BD and i personally regard them as my Brothers , But unfortunately i have less often received that kind of treatment from them on many occasions .
> 
> They lean towards Indians and feel more closer to them than Pakistanies , i have seen them Cracking jokes about Situation in Pakistan and Specially they are intrested in Baluchistan too much!!
> 
> I could'nt understand anything else apart from the fact that they enjoyed the Chaos and Bloodshed in Pakistan. I never heard anything sympathetic from them but Whishpers and Mean comments, i dont know why i always carried a feeling that in any war senario they would'nt stand with us!
> 
> But, I do hope that we may forget the past and move forward and reach to a point where we can Put Bangladesh in our favour.
> 
> Regards:


There are some BD people who would make a wise smile at the plights of what Pakistan is facing every day. In some other forums I have also seen people forecasting the date of demise of Pakistan, as if it will be a great achievement of Bangladesh. Again, there are also some retarded BD people who would discard their own country Bangladesh to join with Pakistan.

Yet, there are other people who would like to see a prosperous and industrially vibrant Pakistan. People who understand geopolitics would agree that BD's own national security partially depends upon the economic as well as military strength of Pakistan. A weak or divided Pakistan is a recipe for making BD a puppet of its big neighbour.

However, Pakistan has forgotten that a country's military strength depends upon its economic strength. It has also mismanaged the country and now the result is the rise of Talibanism. The Taliban leaders who are fighting the Pakistan govt troops are certainly sponsored by India. Otherwise, who is financing these 20,000 Taliban troops?

While Pakistan has sponsored one group of Taliban to go fight in Afghanistan, yet another group is now being sponsored by India to destabilize and dismantle Pakistan from within. I shudder with worry with a scenerio when Pakistan is controlled by these Indian proxies.

India tries itself to be a little nice towards BD. But, a weakened Pakistan will take away the mask India is now wearing. Will India take over BD? Not necessarily. They will keep the BD snake alive, but will take away its poison tooth. This thing they tried during 1972 to 1975, but failed to achieve the goal. The result was political killings in 1975.

So, BD population must not dream of the demise of Pakistan. Rather, they should seek mutual cooperation. However, before Pakistan can make real military contribution to BD, it must get rid of all the extremist elements including those who operate wars against the govt in Kabul.

About Baluchistan, the govt of Pakistan must find out the truth why Baluchis are unhappy. There will be a problem in the future, if Pakistan govt does not distribute wealth equally. Indian hand is already there to inflame the situation. But, why to blame India when your own govt is responsible to alienate the Baluchis?


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## khabib

gromell said:


> How do "all" Bangladeshis in this forum represent Bangladesh? 20-30 Bangladeshis in a Pakistan defence forum speak for over 150 million Bangladeshis?? Did you just say that to make Black blood happy? I hope you did otherwise it would be a bad joke. The reason for Bangladeshis supporting pakistan cricket team has nothing to do with the love of pakistan. Most Bangladeshis are Argentina's fan in soccer. Does that mean they love Argentina as a country or support what their government do? and what is this matter of loving one country more than other ?! isnt that childish??? the only war Bangladesh had was with Pakistan and why would Bangladesh love Pakistan more than other neighboring countries?!!
> 
> Muslims in Bangladesh do not make fun of another muslim's sufferings anywhere in the world. But Pakistanis laugh about Bangladeshi muslims suffering from natural disasters as they always did. When there was earthquake in northern pakistan, Bangladeshi muslims joined pakistanis in north america to raise funds for those poor people. but Bangladeshis dont crack jokes about muslims getting killed in the jumma prayer at a masjid in NWFP! It was me who was more sad than my pakistani frnds here. None of them was speaking about it cause they were ashamed of these things happening in their country. I know so many awami league supporters who support pakistan cricket team and are fans of wasim akram or waqar younis. Younis or Wasim or hanif Mohammad or Imran Khan have fan in india too! how could one sum up Bangladeshis' "one way unconditional love" towards pakistan from the love of a sport and some legendary sports personalities???



Your attitute towards pakistan does not represent bangladeshi either. Say whatever suit your tong.

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## A Chauhan

khabib said:


> Your attitute towards pakistan does not represent bangladeshi either. Say whatever suit your tong.



Well in India we always take Bangladeshis as our brothers, and there is no pressure on BD of any kind, BD is free to take her own decisions BD is a sovereign country free to consider any country as her friend or enemy. If someone thinks that India puts any pressure on BD about Pakistan then he is wrong.

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## khabib

A Chauhan said:


> Well in India we always take Bangladeshis as our brothers, and there is no pressure on BD of any kind, BD is free to take her own decisions BD is a sovereign country free to consider any country as her friend or enemy. If someone thinks that India puts any pressure on BD about Pakistan then he is wrong.



Hello Chauhan. Unfortunately, in case of india things are little bit different than the ideal. In Bangladesh official foreign policy it says friendship to all and mallice to non and bangladesh can some how follow that upto some point as it is a small country in the neighborhood. 

India has considerable influence and to some good extent extend its grip to its small neighbor and there are big mistrust exist between this two neighbor. Continuing military assistant by china and pakistan to bangladesh is not comfortable for india. Even though bangladesh defence budget is less than1/10 of india and % of GDP wise it is one of the lowest in the world. On the other hand, Bangladesh or any of the small south asian neighbor never raised any voice regarding india going to nuclear and its military might which put us really uncomfortable. But india has always raised eyebrow when ever BD or Nepal bought any arms even the very basic defensive arms.

There are big mistrust between BD and india. Do not take me wrong.
but it is suppose to be the big neighbor who should assure its small neighbor and not the other way.


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## naseebkhanniazi

dear members from bd and pk i wish that PK and BD strat joint producation it is better for both 
join the submarin or fighter's or traner's specialy tank's 

need you'r opnion

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## leonblack08

naseebkhanniazi said:


> dear members from bd and pk i wish that PK and BD strat joint producation it is better for both
> join the submarin or fighter's or traner's specialy tank's
> 
> need you'r opnion



It will take at least 20 more years or more.As Bangladesh does not have the technology or the infrastructure or the funding to go for submarine or Fighters.In fact we don't even have a sub till now,we are due to be getting our first subs within a few years inshallah.
 
About tanks,it is possible,as Bangladesh have some experience on this and off course Pakistan has the experience and knowledge with Al-Khalids.


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## TopCat

naseebkhanniazi said:


> dear members from bd and pk i wish that PK and BD strat joint producation it is better for both
> join the submarin or fighter's or traner's specialy tank's
> 
> need you'r opnion



Instead of going all out, I think BD and PK should concentrate on a feasible concrete project first which can be usefull for both the country. I dont think submarines and fighters are good option at this moment because neither country can throw big enough orders which could make those project financially viable. I would rather stick to smaller arms, artileries and shorter range missiles. There is a big scope in Navy as well.


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## naseebkhanniazi

leonblack08 said:


> It will take at least 20 more years or more.As Bangladesh does not have the technology or the infrastructure or the funding to go for submarine or Fighters.In fact we don't even have a sub till now,we are due to be getting our first subs within a few years inshallah.
> 
> About tanks,it is possible,as Bangladesh have some experience on this and off course Pakistan has the experience and knowledge with Al-Khalids.



you sad BD have no experience that's why i wish it is the need of time without wasting time if BD take intrest i hope PK welcome to BD joint productaion in PAKISTAN 

( i wish to see BD strong inshallah) and vist to bd

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## HadaHada

sorry a bit off topic but do most bengali people (especially the adults) really dislike pakitsan? b/c i have a lot of bengali friends here in nyc which dont dislike pakistanis b/c they have been raised here but whenever i go to their houses their parents ask is if im pakistani.. and once my friends dad said this right in my face "there are 2 types of ppl in pakistan; the extremely religious ones and the thugs who will do anything for money"


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## Al-zakir

HadaHada said:


> 2 types of ppl in pakistan; the extremely religious ones and the thugs who will do anything for money"



Well if it's true for Pakistan than same in Bangladesh. Don't worry about the older generation. They are goner. It's up to us new generation to build a brotherly relation between Bd and pak...


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## Spitfighter

Al-zakir said:


> Well if it's true for Pakistan than same in Bangladesh. Don't worry about the older generation. They are goner. It's up to us new generation to build a brotherly relation between Bd and pak...



Don't forget about India my friend


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## Skies

HadaHada said:


> sorry a bit off topic but do most bengali people (especially the adults) really dislike pakitsan? b/c i have a lot of bengali friends here in nyc which dont dislike pakistanis b/c they have been raised here but whenever i go to their houses their parents ask is if im pakistani.. and once my friends dad said this right in my face "there are 2 types of ppl in pakistan; the extremely religious ones and the thugs who will do anything for money"



That is the thing I said. Young Bangladeshis do not have well impression about Pakistan. Pakistan need to show that they are really interested. They need to take some steps that if BD people consider them good friend country. Also young Pakistanis do not have good idea about BD peoples, I think. So it is needed to start more and more exchange of scopes if we want to be proven good friend.


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## naseebkhanniazi

brotherbangladesh said:


> That is the thing I said. Young Bangladeshis do not have well impression about Pakistan. Pakistan need to show that they are really interested. They need to take some steps that if BD people consider them good friend country. Also young Pakistanis do not have good idea about BD peoples, I think. So it is needed to start more and more exchange of scopes if we want to be proven good friend.



wich type of step's can you tell me.........
one thing i want to tell you my grande father and garnd mother they were killd with there family in BD just my uncle was safe run from there in 71 but i still to see BD strong and want to go there and i have no hate against them becaus i know some other hand's were involved in that dirty game and these hand's are still working to devide the both people i welcome to BD ppl come and work togther and defeat the enemy

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## mijanur

y cant india...pakisatn...bangladesh just be freinds like UK..USA and France


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## eastwatch

mijanur said:


> y cant india...pakisatn...bangladesh just be freinds like UK..USA and France


Yes, when USA wanted to liberate itself from the domination of UK, France helped it. Again, when Germany tried to dominate over France and UK, USA came forward to help these countries. The world moves always that way. 

But, in case of south asia, the bottleneck to peace remains the issue of Kashmir. It should be solved first. Then, time will solve many other problems between any two and among all the three countries. BD, India and Pakistan are three sons born out of the womb of one mother. So, all the conflicts should be resolved without much further sibling fightings.

Sorry! Quite off topic.

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## Spitfighter

eastwatch said:


> Yes, when USA wanted to liberate itself from the domination of UK, France helped it. Again, when Germany tried to dominate over France and UK, USA came forward to help these countries. The world moves always that way.
> 
> But, in case of south asia, the bottleneck to peace remains the issue of Kashmir. It should be solved first. Then, time will solve many other problems between any two and among all the three countries. BD, India and Pakistan are three sons born out of the womb of one mother. So, all the conflicts should be resolved without much further sibling fightings.
> 
> Sorry! Quite off topic.



I agree, but Kashmir cannot be solved in a day, India doesn't trust Pakistan and there can be no resolution until Pakistan stops trying to force one. Peace and economic integration will have to come first, only when we can trust each other can we get down to resolving Kashmir.


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## naseebkhanniazi

kashmir is desputed from 1947 when pk shake the trust of india can you tell me ?

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## Spitfighter

naseebkhanniazi said:


> kashmir is desputed from 1947 when pk shake the trust of india can you tell me ?



Sure, 

In 1947, Pakistan failed to control its tribals and 6 decades down the line we're still dealing with Pakistan's incompetence. 

In 1965, Pakistan crossed the LoC into Kashmir. 

In 1999, Pakistan crossed the LoC into Kashmir once again. If nuclear weapons couldn't stop Pakistan from acting like a maniac, how can India trust Pakistan?


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## Imran Khan

visa free is not good idea bro thausends of bangladeshies are illegal migrants in pakistan until today.and more coming.i think limited ppl from PK to BD and BD to PK travel its better for both of us.

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## Skies

imran khan said:


> visa free is not good idea bro thausends of bangladeshies are illegal migrants in pakistan until today.and more coming.i think limited ppl from PK to BD and BD to PK travel its better for both of us.



Visa fee access could be just for 2 months just for building knowledge and friendship. Also, I believe, a lot of Pakistani will come here for business or travel purpose.


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## Imran Khan

With respect we welcome every national from any were without israil.but problim is africans westrens try to come pakistanfor drugs they think there is no rule or low thats why most of them stay in karachi central jail .as per bangladeshi brothers just check half of karachi have bangladeshi **** or driver its make pakistani labor useless because they are cheap workers even in golf we face this.i was try to say send visa free persons even for 3 months but fist check they will be back.same like this i don't wanna see any a$$ hole from TTP LET go BD and distreb security or enter india from there.same we see last week.have a warm welcome to you guys of forum i will take you as my personal guset and return you back also safe.

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## eastwatch

Yousuf said:


> If therz a federation of INDIA ,PAKISTAN & BANGLADESH.there will be no major issues like kashmir, water disputes etc..let the taliban diminish from pakistan, a peaceful Pakistan free from military will make the subcontinent a superpower, think of a UNITED STATES OF INDIA a truly secular ,democratic and powerful..


Now, how are you going to tie the bell when all the three large, medium and small cats are fully awake and are showing their teeth? I do not think, BD and Pakistan would agree to a confederation with big DADA, because it is a recipe for Akhand Bharat. So, to make it a success in the future, all the sources of tension among us three must be sought out and resolved one by one. 

When these countries are economically well-off and there remains no source of conflict, it will be the people who would decide about the confederation. If people want this, then they will elect those who are in its favour. When even SAARC is not moving the way ASEAN is moving, it is almost impossible to think about a confederation.


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## naseebkhanniazi

eastwatch said:


> Now, how are you going to tie the bell when all the three large, medium and small cats are fully awake and are showing their teeth? I do not think, BD and Pakistan would agree to a confederation with big DADA, because it is a recipe for Akhand Bharat. So, to make it a success in the future, all the sources of tension among us three must be sought out and resolved one by one.
> 
> When these countries are economically well-off and there remains no source of conflict, it will be the people who would decide about the confederation. If people want this, then they will elect those who are in its favour. When even SAARC is not moving the way ASEAN is moving, it is almost impossible to think about a confederation.



i agree with you i already post a lot about the akhand bharat dream the indian's still thinking this is the reason that still they dont accpet BD and PK 
and about free visa i think it is allowed for the educated and skilled ppl becaus we need to exchange the idea's and tecnolgey after bullding trust we both open visa for other's 
yor opnion plz...........

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## eastwatch

About visa-free travel among the three countries, I do not think it is possible at this stage of economic underdevelopment and territorial conflict. When even trains cannot pass across the border without the fear of being blown up, how the visa free movement is possible? Only a stable situation can bring that.


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## Spring Onion

A Chauhan said:


> *Well in India we always take Bangladeshis as our brothers,* and there is no pressure on BD of any kind, BD is free to take her own decisions BD is a sovereign country free to consider any country as her friend or enemy. If someone thinks that India puts any pressure on BD about Pakistan then he is wrong.



 no you take them as illegal Bangladeshis whom you want to kick with disgrace.


come on do away with hypocracy

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## Spring Onion

Yousuf said:


> If therz a federation of INDIA ,PAKISTAN & BANGLADESH.there will be no major issues like kashmir, water disputes etc..let the taliban diminish from pakistan, a peaceful Pakistan free from military will make the subcontinent a superpower, think of a UNITED STATES OF INDIA a truly secular ,democratic and powerful..



*How about thinking Greater Pakistan or Greater Bangladesh. composed of three nations.*


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## pakomar

Pakistan should go for joint military development with Bangladesh but with some limit..... not all the latest should be given to Bangladesh.


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## Skies

naseebkhanniazi said:


> About free visa i think it is allowed for the educated and skilled ppl becaus we need to exchange the idea's and technology after building trust we both open visa for other's
> yur opinion plz...........



Ya *at least* it can be done in purpose of education. Visa free for the university students will must build a good relation and understanding between BD and PAK.

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## naseebkhanniazi

so let strat first can u tell me about media education in BD

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## eastwatch

brotherbangladesh said:


> Ya *at least* it can be done in purpose of education. Visa free for the university students will must build a good relation and understanding between BD and PAK.



I remember a time when boy scouts from each wing of the country would visit the other wing. India used to provide special trains and special permission to go through its land. 

Anyway, the stone headed P****** and P******* took nasty decisions and then blew apart every thing in 1970. I used two Ps for fear of Mr. Patriot of this forum, he will surely complain to the administrator that I am an anti-Pakistani.

How about starting from boy scouts again, and now to and from all three countries. All the eastern people are fond of seeing Swat and Quetta. I hope, before the boy scouts can visit, Pakistanis will cease fire.


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## naseebkhanniazi

i read in news paper that in next few year's PAC export JF17 to BD this is good for both country's

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## leonblack08

naseebkhanniazi said:


> i read in news paper that in next few year's PAC export JF17 to BD this is good for both country's



Although Bangladesh Air Force showed interest on Jf-17s,but they have not yet placed any order.And according to new defence plan,it is unlikely new fighters will be inducted soon.

Jf-17 with western upgrades should serve our purpose perfectly.

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## TopCat

naseebkhanniazi said:


> so let strat first can u tell me about media education in BD



Well, Bangladesh is not a good place for foreign students if you alergic to Bangla as most universities uses extensive Bangla. Students prefer Bengali lecture but you will learn Bangla in no time. Most of the Pakistani students I saw spoke fluent Bangla here.


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## Skies

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&#2488;&#2434;&#2486;&#2509;&#2482;&#2495;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463; &#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2480;&#2494; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2495;&#2527;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;&#2472;, &#2470;&#2497;&#2439; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2478;&#2471;&#2509;&#2479;&#2503; &#2447; &#2474;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2468;&#2495; &#2458;&#2494;&#2482;&#2497; &#2489;&#2482;&#2503; &#2477;&#2494;&#2480;&#2468;&#2488;&#2489; &#2488;&#2494;&#2480;&#2509;&#2453;&#2503;&#2480; &#2437;&#2472;&#2509;&#2479; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2455;&#2497;&#2482;&#2507;&#2480; &#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2503; &#2447;&#2453;&#2439; &#2471;&#2480;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2453;&#2509;&#2480;&#2495;&#2527;&#2494; &#2458;&#2494;&#2482;&#2497; &#2489;&#2468;&#2503; &#2474;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503;&#2404;

*Source:* look here


----------



## Al-zakir

brotherbangladesh said:


> *&#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2487;&#2527;&#2503; &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2447;&#2453;&#2463;&#2495; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2476; &#2476;&#2495;&#2476;&#2503;&#2458;&#2472;&#2494; &#2453;&#2480;&#2459;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;*
> 
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> 
> *Source:* look here



It would be beneficial to both nation if implement. If this implement than Pakistan-Bangladesh relation will open up new chapter Insh'allah. 




Brother, please translate it in English for our Pakistani bros and sis.


----------



## Kompromat

Let us modranise your Airforce by Providing Thunders to replace , your old crap Migs and A5's.

And you let Our falcons fly from your airspace

I hope we will do good ....Insha Allah


----------



## eastwatch

brotherbangladesh said:


> [
> *Source:* look here



Theme of the above news is, BD govt is considering a Pakistani proposal to eliminate visa requirement for govt officials and holders of diplomatic Passport. This will enhance the relationship between the two countries.

EW
===============================================
I have my personal support to this proposal. I think, once starts, the non-visa arrangement can be extended to traders and merchants as well after the lapse of a certain period. This will certainly increase trade between the two countries. Many Karachites were born in BD. More than Bangalis or Punjabis, these people will be more in a position to forge a better bi-lateral (trade) relationship, because they will be more acceptable in Dhaka. 

Note that commonness brings people near and together. Dhaka-born Karachites are common people to both the countries. So, they will certainly play a strong role. Anyway, BD should accept the Pakistani proposal immediately.


----------



## gromell

brotherbangladesh said:


> *&#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2487;&#2527;&#2503; &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2447;&#2453;&#2463;&#2495; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2476; &#2476;&#2495;&#2476;&#2503;&#2458;&#2472;&#2494; &#2453;&#2480;&#2459;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;*
> 
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> &#2474;&#2480;&#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480; &#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2467;&#2494;&#2482;&#2527; &#2488;&#2498;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2503; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494; &#2455;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;, &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472; &#2455;&#2468; &#2468;&#2468;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2476;&#2494;&#2476;&#2471;&#2494;&#2527;&#2453; &#2488;&#2480;&#2453;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503;&#2480; &#2438;&#2478;&#2482;&#2503; &#2453;&#2498;&#2463;&#2472;&#2504;&#2468;&#2495;&#2453; &#2474;&#2494;&#2488;&#2474;&#2507;&#2480;&#2509;&#2463;&#2471;&#2494;&#2480;&#2496;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2482;&#2507;&#2474; &#2458;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495; &#2488;&#2439;&#2527;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2476; &#2453;&#2480;&#2503;&#2404; &#2447; &#2488;&#2478;&#2527; &#2439;&#2488;&#2482;&#2494;&#2478;&#2494;&#2476;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487; &#2469;&#2503;&#2453;&#2503; &#2476;&#2482;&#2494; &#2489;&#2527;, &#2447; &#2471;&#2480;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2482;&#2507;&#2474;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2470;&#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2474; &#2470;&#2497;&#2439; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2472;&#2494;&#2455;&#2480;&#2495;&#2453;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2477;&#2509;&#2480;&#2478;&#2467; &#2437;&#2472;&#2503;&#2453; &#2488;&#2489;&#2460; &#2453;&#2480;&#2476;&#2503;&#2404; &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472; &#2447; &#2476;&#2509;&#2479;&#2494;&#2474;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2478;&#2509;&#2478;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480; &#2460;&#2472;&#2509;&#2479; &#2447;&#2453;&#2494;&#2471;&#2495;&#2453;&#2476;&#2494;&#2480; &#2468;&#2494;&#2455;&#2495;&#2470; &#2470;&#2495;&#2527;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;&#2404; &#2466;&#2494;&#2453;&#2494;&#2527; &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2494;&#2476;&#2503;&#2453; &#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480;&#2470;&#2498;&#2468; &#2438;&#2482;&#2478;&#2455;&#2496;&#2480; &#2476;&#2494;&#2486;&#2494;&#2480; &#2454;&#2494;&#2472; &#2476;&#2494;&#2476;&#2480; &#2488;&#2478;&#2509;&#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2468;&#2495; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503; &#2468;&#2494;&#2433;&#2480; &#2470;&#2494;&#2527;&#2495;&#2468;&#2509;&#2476; &#2474;&#2494;&#2482;&#2472; &#2486;&#2503;&#2487;&#2503; &#2475;&#2495;&#2480;&#2503; &#2479;&#2494;&#2451;&#2527;&#2494;&#2480; &#2438;&#2455;&#2503; &#2458;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495;&#2463;&#2495; &#2488;&#2439; &#2453;&#2480;&#2468;&#2503; &#2437;&#2472;&#2497;&#2480;&#2507;&#2471; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494;&#2472;&#2404; &#2468;&#2495;&#2472;&#2495; &#2466;&#2494;&#2453;&#2494;&#2480; &#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494;&#2472;, &#2439;&#2488;&#2482;&#2494;&#2478;&#2494;&#2476;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503; &#2437;&#2472;&#2497;&#2487;&#2509;&#2464;&#2503;&#2527; &#2474;&#2480;&#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480;&#2488;&#2458;&#2495;&#2476;-&#2474;&#2480;&#2509;&#2479;&#2494;&#2527;&#2503;&#2480; &#2476;&#2504;&#2464;&#2453;&#2503; &#2476;&#2495;&#2487;&#2527;&#2463;&#2495;&#2480; &#2476;&#2509;&#2479;&#2494;&#2474;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503; &#2458;&#2498;&#2524;&#2494;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468; &#2488;&#2495;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2494;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468; &#2470;&#2503;&#2454;&#2468;&#2503; &#2458;&#2494;&#2527; &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472;&#2404;
> &#2488;&#2498;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494;&#2527;, &#2455;&#2507;&#2527;&#2503;&#2472;&#2509;&#2470;&#2494; &#2488;&#2434;&#2488;&#2509;&#2469;&#2494;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2468;&#2495;&#2476;&#2503;&#2470;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2480; &#2488;&#2478;&#2509;&#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2468;&#2495; &#2488;&#2509;&#2476;&#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480; &#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2467;&#2494;&#2482;&#2527; &#2458;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495;&#2463;&#2495; &#2488;&#2439;&#2527;&#2503;&#2480; &#2476;&#2509;&#2479;&#2494;&#2474;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503; &#2439;&#2468;&#2495;&#2476;&#2494;&#2458;&#2453; &#2437;&#2477;&#2495;&#2478;&#2468; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494;&#2527;&#2404; &#2455;&#2468; &#2536;&#2541; &#2488;&#2503;&#2474;&#2509;&#2463;&#2503;&#2478;&#2509;&#2476;&#2480; &#2453;&#2495;&#2459;&#2497; &#2488;&#2434;&#2486;&#2507;&#2471;&#2472;&#2496;-&#2488;&#2434;&#2476;&#2482;&#2495;&#2468; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2476;&#2495;&#2468; &#2458;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480; &#2454;&#2488;&#2524;&#2494; &#2474;&#2480;&#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480; &#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2467;&#2494;&#2482;&#2527;&#2503; &#2474;&#2494;&#2464;&#2495;&#2527;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503; &#2488;&#2509;&#2476;&#2480;&#2494;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463;&#2509;&#2480; &#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2467;&#2494;&#2482;&#2527;&#2404;
> &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2494; &#2455;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;, &#2476;&#2503;&#2486; &#2453;&#2527;&#2503;&#2453;&#2463;&#2495; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2457;&#2509;&#2455;&#2503; &#2476;&#2494;&#2434;&#2482;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2480;&#2453;&#2494;&#2480;&#2495; &#2451; &#2453;&#2498;&#2463;&#2472;&#2504;&#2468;&#2495;&#2453; &#2474;&#2494;&#2488;&#2474;&#2507;&#2480;&#2509;&#2463;&#2503;&#2480; &#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2503; &#2453;&#2507;&#2472;&#2507; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503; &#2474;&#2508;&#2433;&#2459;&#2494;&#2472;&#2507;&#2480; &#2474;&#2480; &#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494;&#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2494;&#2474;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480; (&#2437;&#2472; &#2447;&#2480;&#2494;&#2439;&#2477;&#2494;&#2482; &#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494 &#2488;&#2497;&#2476;&#2495;&#2471;&#2494; &#2458;&#2494;&#2482;&#2497; &#2469;&#2494;&#2453;&#2482;&#2503;&#2451; &#2474;&#2494;&#2453;&#2495;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2457;&#2509;&#2455;&#2503; &#2458;&#2497;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495; &#2488;&#2439; &#2489;&#2482;&#2503; &#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494; &#2468;&#2497;&#2482;&#2503; &#2470;&#2503;&#2451;&#2527;&#2494;&#2480; &#2476;&#2509;&#2479;&#2476;&#2488;&#2509;&#2469;&#2494; &#2489;&#2476;&#2503; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2469;&#2478;&#2404; &#2470;&#2497;&#2439; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2478;&#2509;&#2474;&#2480;&#2509;&#2453;&#2453;&#2503; &#2456;&#2472;&#2495;&#2487;&#2509;&#2464;&#2468;&#2480; &#2453;&#2480;&#2468;&#2503; &#2451; &#2479;&#2507;&#2455;&#2494;&#2479;&#2507;&#2455; &#2476;&#2494;&#2524;&#2494;&#2468;&#2503; &#2439;&#2488;&#2482;&#2494;&#2478;&#2494;&#2476;&#2494;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2447; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2488;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2476;&#2453;&#2503; &#2439;&#2468;&#2495;&#2476;&#2494;&#2458;&#2453; &#2476;&#2482;&#2503;&#2439; &#2478;&#2472;&#2503; &#2453;&#2480;&#2459;&#2503; &#2466;&#2494;&#2453;&#2494;&#2404; &#2488;&#2509;&#2474;&#2495;&#2453;&#2494;&#2480;, &#2478;&#2472;&#2509;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2495;&#2474;&#2480;&#2495;&#2487;&#2470;&#2503;&#2480; &#2488;&#2470;&#2488;&#2509;&#2479;, &#2488;&#2494;&#2434;&#2488;&#2470;, &#2488;&#2480;&#2453;&#2494;&#2480;&#2495; &#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2488;&#2489; &#2442;&#2480;&#2509;&#2471;&#2509;&#2476;&#2468;&#2472; &#2470;&#2494;&#2527;&#2495;&#2468;&#2509;&#2476;&#2486;&#2496;&#2482; &#2476;&#2509;&#2479;&#2453;&#2509;&#2468;&#2495;&#2480;&#2494; &#2477;&#2495;&#2488;&#2494; &#2476;&#2495;&#2482;&#2507;&#2474;&#2503;&#2480; &#2438;&#2451;&#2468;&#2494;&#2527; &#2438;&#2488;&#2476;&#2503;&#2472;&#2404;
> &#2488;&#2434;&#2486;&#2509;&#2482;&#2495;&#2487;&#2509;&#2463; &#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2478;&#2453;&#2480;&#2509;&#2468;&#2494;&#2480;&#2494; &#2460;&#2494;&#2472;&#2495;&#2527;&#2503;&#2459;&#2503;&#2472;, &#2470;&#2497;&#2439; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2503;&#2480; &#2478;&#2471;&#2509;&#2479;&#2503; &#2447; &#2474;&#2470;&#2509;&#2471;&#2468;&#2495; &#2458;&#2494;&#2482;&#2497; &#2489;&#2482;&#2503; &#2477;&#2494;&#2480;&#2468;&#2488;&#2489; &#2488;&#2494;&#2480;&#2509;&#2453;&#2503;&#2480; &#2437;&#2472;&#2509;&#2479; &#2470;&#2503;&#2486;&#2455;&#2497;&#2482;&#2507;&#2480; &#2453;&#2509;&#2487;&#2503;&#2468;&#2509;&#2480;&#2503; &#2447;&#2453;&#2439; &#2471;&#2480;&#2472;&#2503;&#2480; &#2474;&#2509;&#2480;&#2453;&#2509;&#2480;&#2495;&#2527;&#2494; &#2458;&#2494;&#2482;&#2497; &#2489;&#2468;&#2503; &#2474;&#2494;&#2480;&#2503;&#2404;
> 
> *Source:* look here



This is a very dangerous trap. Why only for govt people? This will ensure safe passage for ISI, not that they don't have any presence already.


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## gromell

Black blood said:


> Let us modranise your Airforce by Providing Thunders to replace , your old crap Migs and A5's.
> 
> And you let Our falcons fly from your airspace
> 
> I hope we will do good ....Insha Allah



No Pakistani armed force operation shall ever be launched from Bangladesh. You guys are simply promoting JF-17 for business purpose. Mig-29 can be lethal in good hands against your JF-17. German pilots had beaten USAF F-16 in mock combat flying in their older Mig-29. Don't call Mig-29 crap.


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## TopCat

gromell said:


> This is a very dangerous trap. Why only for govt people? This will ensure safe passage for ISI, not that they don't have any presence already.



I disagree with that. You should start with govt passport holders and business people first then it will come to a point when everybody will be allowed to be provided with a port entry visa.
I suppose, visa free means port entry visa but not the absense of visa with unlimited stay.
ISI can come to BD with Visa as well.


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## Evil Flare

Why she Banned ??


What rule she Broke ?


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## eastwatch

Aamir Zia said:


> Why she Banned ??
> What rule she Broke ?


Only moderators can answer your questions. But, I am surprised at her being banned. I used to read and like her posts, specially those that related to BD-Pakistan relationship. She used to defend BD from being abused by the Indian posters.

I would request the Administrator to reconsider her case and reinstate her membership so that she can continue debating or discussing important topics.


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## Skies

> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html



I've noticed one thing in the above thread. That no Pakistani member has shown any disregard to the event December 16! So why AL govt. and some BD people still dislike them? There should not anymore misunderstands now.


Note: Link the non-sticky threads to the sticky threads this way, but, *relevantly*.

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## Al-zakir

brotherbangladesh said:


> I've noticed one thing in the above thread. That no Pakistani member has shown any disregard to the event December 16! So why AL govt. and some BD people still dislike them? There should not anymore misunderstands now.
> 
> 
> Note: Link the non-sticky threads to the sticky threads this way, but, *relevantly*.



Pakistani got bigger heart than us. Believe me. I got first hand experience unlike bengali minded Bangladeshi in Bangladesh keep talking BS about them. 
Look how they treat us in this forum while a Pakistani would get kicked out if they even try to question about 71 in bangla fora. Some low life so called Bangladeshi members abuse Pakistanis in their forum yet do not get banned. They also have opened a separate section for us, hence I think real congestion and narrow mind set lay in our land. 

Land of Mir Jaffar precisely.

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## Jako

Bah!!...that was some post praising YOUR country-YOUR motherland zakir bro....land of mir jaffar!....just greaaat...you are such a patriotic bangladeshi!....


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## leonblack08

Al-zakir said:


> Pakistani got bigger heart than us. Believe me. I got first hand experience unlike bengali minded Bangladeshi in Bangladesh keep talking BS about them.
> Look how they treat us in this forum while a Pakistani would get kicked out if they even try to question about 71 in bangla fora. Some low life so called Bangladeshi members abuse Pakistanis in their forum yet do not get banned. They also have opened a separate section for us, hence I think real congestion and narrow mind set lay in our land.
> 
> Land of Mir Jaffar precisely.



Just because they opened a new section for us,it doesn't mean we should always be praising Pakistan 24 x 7.If I am not wrong,praising someone too much in front of him,is a sign of Munafik.Correct me if I am wrong.

It is better to criticise them in front of them rather on their back.That becomes geebat.
I think even Pakistanis would not like someone praising them 24x 7.

About criticism,even MODs expect constructive criticism about Pakistan,so if some people are doing it and not getting banned,they are going by the rule.And those who abuse,they are banned by MODs decision.I remember one member name "Dhaka" getting banned for abusing.


And I don't know which Bangla forum you are talking about Zakir bhai,but I have seen Pakistani member on number of BD forums.Though they are less in number,because of extensive use of Bangla in BD forums,the language barrier.
Currently only one BD defence forum is active,and you should compare with that.you can't compare it to some other type of forum.


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## leonblack08

gromell said:


> No Pakistani armed force operation shall ever be launched from Bangladesh. You guys are simply promoting JF-17 for business purpose. Mig-29 can be lethal in good hands against your JF-17. German pilots had beaten USAF F-16 in mock combat flying in their older Mig-29. Don't call Mig-29 crap.



Mig-29 is not a crap,but it is not ideal for Bangladesh Air force.
One of the reasons being the huge maintenance cost of Mig-29s.

Jf-17 on the other hand is a single engine interceptor plus with ground attack capabilities.With some western upgrades according to our needs,it is perfect for our Air force.
Its not too expensive,with upgrades it might cost 25 million.In addition maintenance friendly.And suits the role which BAF needs,i.e. interceptor.

If we can use Chinese planes,why not Jf-17?Its also partly Chinese.

But if BAF can go for Gripen NG....


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## Windjammer

Jako said:


> Bah!!...that was some post praising YOUR country-YOUR motherland zakir bro....land of mir jaffar!....just greaaat...you are such a patriotic bangladeshi!....



People speak through experiences and have every right to convey their opinion. I have met Bangladeshi guys who openly say they are still Pakistani. It may not change the oveall reality but it proves, if it were needed that we who were once one nation, still have mutual feelings towards each other.


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## Al-zakir

leonblack08 said:


> Just because they opened a new section for us,it doesn't mean we should always be praising Pakistan 24 x 7.If I am not wrong,praising someone too much in front of him,is a sign of Munafik.Correct me if I am wrong.
> 
> .



So you indirectly calling me Munafiq just because I have point out some truth. That very nice of you leo.


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## khabib

Al-zakir said:


> So you indirectly calling me Munafiq just because I have point out some truth. That very nice of you leo.



I also agree with you. This brother is a Pakka Momin and you are
indirectly calling him munafiq ?


----------



## khabib

And I don't know which Bangla forum you are talking about Zakir bhai,but I have seen Pakistani member on number of BD forums.Though they are less in number,because of extensive use of Bangla in BD forums,the language barrier.
Currently only one BD defence forum is active,and you should compare with that.you can't compare it to some other type of forum.[/QUOTE]

BDmilitary forum will band you right away. Zakir bhai may be right.


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## leonblack08

Al-zakir said:


> So you indirectly calling me Munafiq just because I have point out some truth. That very nice of you leo.



Don't take it in wrong way Zakir bhai,

I am stating what's true,you do agree that's correct,isn't it?Now I guess it just matched with you incidentally.
And everyone can be at fault,we are human being.Its better I criticise you in front of you rather than saying on your back.
Same goes for me.

And apologies if you took it in heart.


----------



## Al-zakir

leonblack08 said:


> Don't take it in wrong way Zakir bhai,
> 
> I am stating what's true,you do agree that's correct,isn't it?Now I guess it just matched with you incidentally.
> And everyone can be at fault,we are human being.Its better I criticise you in front of you rather than saying on your back.
> Same goes for me.
> 
> And apologies if you took it in heart.



That is fine because I know where I stand though I will not stop from speaking out the truth even if it label me certain way. I speak out from experience rather than what's been written in book or made up BS story in media. 
I used to believe about pakistanis certain way when I was back home but changed when I got to meet some of them here in the state. 

So long every december and march are deserve for pakistan bashing by bharti sponsored, left wing awami supporter, bengali minded munafiq media that constantly spread out BS stories about pakistani in demonizing way than there will never be brotherly relation possible with them due to our confused new generation.

Now tell me why is it necessary to sponsor hate while celebrating independece? Do you not think, these left wing media spreading negetive energy while we are trying to reconcile?

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## Skies

Some Bangladeshis has *FMD blindness* disease. They only like to hate Pakistan in that time. 


FMD= February, March & December.* 
So consider them sick in that time, lol.

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## Skies

gromell said:


> This is a very dangerous trap. Why only for govt people? This will ensure safe passage for ISI, not that they don't have any presence already.



Sad, that u, still, couldn't trust Pakistan even after 38 years! _Yes, they did wrong but now?_ You already know that in this thread  ( http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html ) they give us complete privilege to write in their own defence forum about 71 against them, what is a sign of big soul. 

So now extend your hands to them, _which will be the best answer to them against 71_, even they did wrongs. Now make trust and brothers to show the world that it is possible to make trust again.

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## piyarapakistani

sry to say but its a fact that british create pakistan and india in such a way that
india got all the strategic advantages in land,sea,air.
bangladesh(former east pakistan) is frm three sides surrounded by india.
pakistan has no strategical depth.
bangladeshi and pakistani rivers came from india or india occupied lands.
india got more startegic depth of land.

but still as independent nations bang-pak will never except india supremesy in south asia.

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## piyarapakistani

remember one thing no west pakstani wants that he rule east pakistans majority.
it was corrupt marshal law regime who also supress west pakistan and also control east pakistan.and mis understandings grow so stronger that one nation was splited in to two.
remember one thing india is not anyones friend.

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## gromell

leonblack08 said:


> Mig-29 is not a crap,but it is not ideal for Bangladesh Air force.
> One of the reasons being the huge maintenance cost of Mig-29s.
> 
> Jf-17 on the other hand is a single engine interceptor plus with ground attack capabilities.With some western upgrades according to our needs,it is perfect for our Air force.
> Its not too expensive,with upgrades it might cost 25 million.In addition maintenance friendly.And suits the role which BAF needs,i.e. interceptor.
> 
> If we can use Chinese planes,why not Jf-17?Its also partly Chinese.
> 
> But if BAF can go for Gripen NG....



JF-17 is overrated. Going to JF-17 from Mig-29 will be going down in quality. JF-17 is not Pakistani made. It was researched and developed in China by Chinese engineers. Now Pakistan just contributed with money. That's why they were in the project. It is like the F-35. Turkey put money in F-35 and they will receive some when it is completed. But they did not developed it. Production in Turkey also does not imply Turkey has developed the F-35. If we badly want this plane then we can get it directly from China! Why not?!

Gripen NG is too expensive. There are better fighters than Gripen NG for the same or lower price. Mig-35, F-16 block 60...


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## gromell

brotherbangladesh said:


> Sad, that u, still, couldn't trust Pakistan even after 38 years! _Yes, they did wrong but now?_ You already know that in this thread  ( http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/41456-battles-1971-a.html ) they give us complete privilege to write in their own defence forum about 71 against them, what is a sign of big soul.
> 
> So now extend your hands to them, _which will be the best answer to them against 71_, even they did wrongs. Now make trust and brothers to show the world that it is possible to make trust again.



you are totally deceived by simple trickeries here. You should know better.

What does "38 years" mean? Bengalis could not trust Pakistanis when they were the same nation and you are saying we must trust them when we are different countries?! Do you even realize what you are talking about?! Pakistanis are the most selfish nation I have ever met in my life. One two good exceptions don't speak for their 170 million people. and they let us talk in this forum because that's the right thing to do. What is so wrong with it?! I know Bengalis are always happy with little and you are melting down with gratitude for your Pakistanis, that's very cute but it is actually getting too awkward. It's not our responsibility to make trust here. We always trust people. That's our weak point. The ones who caused us to lose faith in them will have to make the effort. If there is something to write about 71, it is to write against Pakistan. What is so surprising here?! If they are letting people write about this, then they are letting people speak the truth. I do not know why are you so embarrassed about that?!


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## gromell

iajdani said:


> I disagree with that. You should start with govt passport holders and business people first then it will come to a point when everybody will be allowed to be provided with a port entry visa.
> I suppose, visa free means port entry visa but not the absense of visa with unlimited stay.
> ISI can come to BD with Visa as well.



The biggest problem Bangladesh is facing right now is some short headed Pakistanis trying to blow themselves up inside Bangladeshi territory and influence uneducated Bengalis to do that. Pakistani militants and agents operating in Bangladesh is already a big headache. You don't want to increase that risk.


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## Luftwaffe

*gromell...JF-17 is overrated. Going to JF-17 from Mig-29 will be going down in quality. JF-17 is not Pakistani made. It was researched and developed in China by Chinese engineers. Now Pakistan just contributed with money. That's why they were in the project. It is like the F-35. Turkey put money in F-35 and they will receive some when it is completed. But they did not developed it. Production in Turkey also does not imply Turkey has developed 
the F-35. If we badly want this plane then we can get it directly from China! Why not?!

Gripen NG is too expensive. There are better fighters than Gripen NG for the same or lower price. Mig-35, F-16 block 60... *

We all know the quality of Mig29ers hmm lets see 200+ grounded in russia..malaysia is replacing them as soon as possible next year they will go for SU-30..etc etc..
since the bangladeshi mig29ers are not upgraded to the standard of nato u can't call them superbikes..
No body overrated JF-17 the specs are infront of all of us it has been said that JF-17 with time will become a lethal machine and its true look at the earlier F-16s and look and the current blk 52s for bangladesh JF-17 = F-16 check out ur MIG29ers cockpit and look at the prototype JF-17 cockpit see the difference?
MIG 29 





JF-17

You should visit JF-17 thread..JF-17 is an earlier 4th generation fighter affordable low cost for small air forces with room for upgrades for years to come MIG 29 is goner its airframe is 30+ years old avionics wise even if russia offers you u won't be able to afford it..now come down from that pine tree.

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## Skies

gromell said:


> Pakistanis are the most selfish nation I have ever met in my life. One two good exceptions don't speak for their 170 million people.



# Not sure as I don't get any chance to meet any Pakistani yet!! But may be you've misbehaved with them, as you hate Pakistan, thus they also dislike you. 

# If they are selfish nation then how China is their good friend. Also their literature is very rich which does not represent them as selfish but generous. Please read those.

# Also then why you trust India. Are they so generous?



gromell said:


> I know Bengalis are always happy with little.



Yes, really, it is.



gromell said:


> We always trust people. That's our weak point.



Yes, really, it is.



gromell said:


> If they are letting people write about this, then they are letting people speak the truth. I do not know why are you so embarrassed about that?!



# I, the new generation, want to avoid 71 for better future relation. Why you always want to cling to bitter past. 

# Also when you bash Pakistan roughly for their mistakes in 71 which pop up your mean mind in front that embarrass me.


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## bd_4_ever

With all respect to my BD and Pak brothers, why are we debating among each other? We are here to talk and discuss about the possible positive outcomes of any BD-Pak *defence* relation. So please lets not talk about 1971 and its effects and stuffs and stay on topic.....shall we.....

Ok guys, long ago in this thread we talked about joint FAC building BD-Pak.....i guess its almost a year (according to this thread) that no one has given any updates about it. Can anyone please shed some light into that subject.....

Cheers to our brotherhood!!!


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## Skies

IBRIS said:


> How is the statement idiotic. As i said, pakistan is in no shape sending any assistance to bangladesh in regards to it's economy or infrastructure.
> 
> Yes u can send in whoever you desire, *But there is no need of doctors or teachers in Bangladesh. There isn't any epidemic bangladesh is suffering, whether it's due to natural disaster or any crisis. *
> 
> Those teachers and agricultural experts are needed in pakistan more than anywhere else.
> 
> 
> Now this is where Pakistani export industry and Chinese export markets will clash for this share of the pie.
> 
> Zubair isn't Alkhalid is using Chinese turret and components in Alkhalid. Wouldn't china would want it's share of this deal.
> It would be easier for Bangladesh to buy the same tanks from China without the nightmare of logistics from 2 different countries for same product. ?



The highlight ^ portion is true as we are not in any epidemic condition.

But we are not talking about that situation. Here we are taking about mutual collaboration to improve both's quality and to set up a good relation. So why u r not getting that point?

And, whatever, we have not good economy, we will try with our little resource, no problem. Here the main matter is about mutual helping not one's economical condition actually.

** post here to avoid derail of that thread.


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## Admal Keyani

Brother Bangladesh I think the Admins opened BD section in PDF because simply the fact that you guys are an important part of the PDF community. If we can give the Indians a sections, then by God there should be no qualms in why you guys can't contribute to the PDF forum. 

But it gets to me why still some Bangladeshi Brothers in this forum have hate towards Pakistan. If the Chinese can forgive the Japanese in what they did in China, then what right does Bangladesh have in whining continuously about the past.

We trade quite heavily with each other, and with time we can learn from each other, which will lay down a foundation of Brotherly friendship. I might be wrong, but there was even rumours that Bangladesh might be JF-17, which I think would be great for Bangladesh because of its low costs, and the fact that arm parts can never be embargoed because both China and Pakistan have a Great level of understanding towards Bangladesh. 

Don't listen to Gromell he is a sad person, that seriously has some issues, which should be looked by a Doctor urgent. Anyway I hope I have not offended any of my good Bangladeshi brothers.

Pak-BD Friendship Zindabad
Pak-BD Friendship Zindabad
Pak-BD Friendship Zindabad

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## leonblack08

brotherbangladesh said:


> Just asking to know clearly:
> 
> Is there any importance of having BD section in PDF for Pakistan?



Brother Bangladesh,

Just look at the number of members from Bangladesh.Its growing here,and that's why MODs opened this section for Bangladesh.
Many Thanks to them.

When I started there was no separate section for Bangladesh.But as the discussions relating to Bangladesh increased,the MODs opened it.


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## Al-zakir

It's very unfortunate that Pakistan-Bangladesh relations change with the goverment. We trend to devolop closer relation with pakistan and islamic world when BNP comes to power while nose dive during Awami leauge. This kind of mentality is not good for both of our nation. I believe we should build relation based on mutul interest rather than past history. 

La-hasina will visit bharat but I bet she will not visit pakistan nor pakistan prime minster will visit bangaldesh eventhough pak prime minister showed interest begining of it's administration. 

Bangaldesh has a lot to gain from pakistan mainly in defence yet bangladesh will not think about it's interest so long pro-bharati awami munafiq in power.


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## pak-yes

> If Bangladesh diverts some of the money from its social project..



Brother do you really wanna divert funds from social projects to weapons.I don't think it's such a good idea.Especially when your enemies are not extremely powerful than you.Believe weapons are the most useless thing in this world but unfortunately for some they are a necessity don't follow PAK army we have to spend huge amounts on defence because our enemies are very powerful than us.Brother don't follow our path it will only lead to destruction.Money is better spent on school,hospitals and other welfare projects.Besides because of the global warming BD should set some funds for some research and defence of your coastal area from water.

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## Al-zakir

pak-yes said:


> Brother do you really wanna divert funds from social projects to weapons.I don't think it's such a good idea.Especially when your enemies are not extremely powerful than you.Believe weapons are the most useless thing in this world but unfortunately for some they are a necessity don't follow PAK army we have to spend huge amounts on defence because our enemies are very powerful than us.Brother don't follow our path it will only lead to destruction.Money is better spent on school,hospitals and other welfare projects.Besides because of the global warming BD should set some funds for some research and defence of your coastal area from water.



Brother I will not disagree with you on this however do you remeber the outcome of lebanon as a result of zionist agression. Lebanon has done exactly what you have suggest yet zinist did not hesitate to bull doze the country with in few days. I am not saying that Bangaldesh should invest all the resource to military however a minimum investments are required to face the odd day. 

As per as pakistan concern. Your country would have been delhi ruled if you did not have strong military in place. You may forgot that it was bharat inititated this arm race in sub continent by testing neuclear weapons. Pakistan merely match it enemy. 

you suggest would work if only we all sign some kind of peace deal or accept bharat as the god father.


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## pak-yes

Al-zakir said:


> Brother I will not disagree with you on this however do you remeber the outcome of lebanon as a result of zionist agression. Lebanon has done exactly what you have suggest yet zinist did not hesitate to bull doze the country with in few days. I am not saying that Bangaldesh should invest all the resource to military however a minimum investments are required to face the odd day.
> 
> As per as pakistan concern. Your country would have been delhi ruled if you did not have strong military in place. You may forgot that it was bharat inititated this arm race in sub continent by testing neuclear weapons. Pakistan merely match it enemy.
> 
> you suggest would work if only we all sign some kind of peace deal or accept bharat as the god father.



well you are right INDIA is the threat to everyone in the subcontinent.Fortunately for BD.Pakistan faces the blunt of INDIAN aggression so BD is relatively safe.But you are right a nation must not let it's guard down however a nation should not also spend money blindly on weapons as INDIA does.so well BD should maintain a balance.However under no circumstances welfare funds should be directed for weapons.Although your threat is Burma to my understanding.Not Powerful as INDIA.BD only needs an extremely strong navy to protect it's rights in Bay of Bengal.


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## Al-zakir

pak-yes said:


> well you are right INDIA is the threat to everyone in the subcontinent.Fortunately for BD.Pakistan faces the blunt of INDIAN aggression so BD is relatively safe.But you are right a nation must not let it's guard down however a nation should not also spend money blindly on weapons as INDIA does.so well BD should maintain a balance.However under no circumstances welfare funds should be directed for weapons.Although your threat is Burma to my understanding.Not Powerful as INDIA.*BD only needs an extremely strong navy to protect it's rights in Bay of Bengal*.



Burma is threat but it can not subdue us however bharat can easily do that if we are not keep up with time and place. I believe bangladesh spend least in defencec compare to sub continent however we need to bring a notch up as we will have confilct in near future due to bharat aggression to control our sea. 

We have no other option but invest in defence because of our unfortunate Geographical location.


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## pak-yes

> We have no other option but invest in defence because of our unfortunate Geographical location.



well if you can protect bay of bengal then your geographical location can turn into a prize


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## Skies

*Trade with Bangladesh*​

WHILE addressing the students of IBA, the deputy high commissioner of Bangladesh, Mr Mohammad Abdul Hannan, aptly focused on various sectors of trade between Pakistan and Bangladesh (Dawn, April 28). His stress on joint ventures between the industrialists of the two countries as an effective instrument of promoting closer relations is quite understandable.

However, he thought it expedient not to dilate upon some unsavoury aspects of our mutual trade out of deference to the sensibilities of the host country and constraints of his post. For instance, he parried questions on the balance of trade skewing towards Pakistan&#8217;s side &#8212; an irritating factor from Bangladesh&#8217;s point of view. This has got to be addressed seriously by Pakistan

Second, for reasons best known to him, he did not even obliquely refer to the basic Bangladeshi commodity, namely, jute crop, which can still play a significant role in tilting the balance of trade. At present, Pakistan is importing raw jute in its least value-added form. It is a sector where considerable expansion in Pakistan can take place, if we encourage expertise and investment from Bangladesh. Though it is history now, I may recall that it was none other than this golden fibre which stood Pakistan&#8217;s economy in good stead in its infancy as the main foreign exchange earner.

While it is true to some extent that geography and nature have been less generous to Bangladesh for a broader industrial base, it doesn&#8217;t mean that nothing can be done to bring about improvement in the existing one-way traffic. The country is rich in its handicraft products which can find a receptive market in Pakistan. Pakistan can provide impetus by gifting the Bangladesh three small outlets in Karachi, Lahore and Islamabad for these handicrafts. Bangladesh has also been bequeathed huge potentials in the field of fine arts and music. Its government may officially subsidise initially cultural tours or individual performers so that awareness in Pakistan is created of the unmatched quality of their artistic talent.

Similarly, I know from personal knowledge that Bangladesh has made strong showings in the field of pharmacy. It is competitive in the manufacturing of low-cost medicines. We can import certain medicines from Bangladesh.

The entire burden of narrowing the imbalance between our bilateral trade falls on tea. Let us make Pakistan a protected market for tea from Bangladesh. As long as their tea can meet Pakistan&#8217;s demand, it should be given preference over other sources.

The fact remains that the binge of one-sided trade with Bangladesh cannot go on forever. Our businessmen will have to do business with them on more or less equal terms. Hats off to the people of Bangladesh who continue to show proclivity for Pakistani products in spite of their higher costs.

All those who are aware of our common history and shared struggle for Pakistan owe it to the people of Bangladesh to ask our policymakers to be proactive in evolving a long-term pattern of everlasting fraternal relationship between the two countries.

SIRAJUDDIN 
Hyderabad

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## Skies

brotherbangladesh said:


> Stop *look back* before 2000. There is no benefit at all.
> 
> Indians are always interested in these sort of discussions to create *mis-understanding *with their *irreverent logics*.
> Convert ur ideas, thinkings, knowledges for the future relation with Pak. If it is not possible good relation with Pakistan then, at least, stop* look back* in past.



+ If u want to hate Pakistan in context of any present issues then I've no problem but not for *1971's mistake*. So find issue/cos to hate Pakistan for present situation if you want but not from *1971's mistake*.

I'm sure that there is no big loss to Pakistan if BD hate them. Also we are not much significant to them. But there are many possibilities in relation Pak-BD if we can use/depend strategically.


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## TopCat

brotherbangladesh said:


> + If u want to hate Pakistan in context of any present issues then I've no problem but not for *1971's mistake*. So find issue/cos to hate Pakistan for present situation if you want but not from *1971's mistake*.
> 
> I'm sure that there is no big loss to Pakistan if BD hate them. *Also we are not much significant to them*. But there are many possibilities in relation Pak-BD if we can use/depend strategically.



Where do you come up with tons of bull$hitt all the time. In one way you are saying you are not significant to Pakistan and in other way you are dying for a relationship with Pakistan. Why do you want a insignificant relationship?? Are you happily married yet?? If not, my little piece of advice, never go that way unless you will end up at in laws familly as a free loader.


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## graphican

iajdani said:


> Where do you come up with tons of bull$hitt all the time. In one way you are saying you are not significant to Pakistan and in other way you are dying for a relationship with Pakistan. Why do you want a insignificant relationship?? Are you happily married yet?? If not, my little piece of advice, never go that way unless you will end up at in laws familly as a free loader.



You have more of hate in your post then reason why Bangladesh and Pakistan should not get close. You can have your history making you stay back but this is not your history alone and we have similar complains as you might have. Lets be logical here and talk of gains and possibilities. Bangladesh and Pakistan have nothing to loose if we stay the way we are but we can expect mutual gains if there is extended cooperation between the two. Pakistan doesn't have the most advance technology available on the planet but we are better off from 10s of countries in many ways and there lies opportunity for Bangladesh to take advantage from that.

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## Al-zakir

iajdani said:


> Where do you come up with tons of bull$hitt all the time. In one way you are saying you are not significant to Pakistan and in other way you are dying for a relationship with Pakistan. Why do you want a insignificant relationship?? Are you happily married yet?? If not, my little piece of advice, never go that way unless you will end up at in laws familly as a free loader.



Let say you are right than what have bangladesh gained by getting stuck in the past when diplomatic tie already established back in 74 when mujib was alive?


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## Skies

iajdani said:


> Where do you come up with tons of bull$hitt all the time. In one way you are saying you are not significant to Pakistan and in other way you are dying for a relationship with Pakistan. Why do you want a insignificant relationship?? Are you happily married yet?? If not, my little piece of advice, never go that way unless you will end up at in laws familly as a free loader.





> Where do you come up with tons of bull$hitt all the time.



Yes I always come up with tons of bull. Strange!

hm, either I did not say entirely in that post or u did not get what I said.

BTW, I wanted to mean that even we hate Pak there is no problem to them cos we are not that much *significant partner* to them.

But if we could make good relation then that could be strategically significant. My intention was to say that there is possibility if we have well relation but no harms that much to both even we hate each other as we r not that much significant partner. And I, just, proposed for good relation for seeking possibilities, not dying for it.

I wanted to tell to those people who hate Pakistan that even if u hate them then it is not big loss for them. And this very true.


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## TopCat

graphican said:


> You have more of hate in your post then reason why Bangladesh and Pakistan should not get close. You can have your history making you stay back but this is not your history alone and we have similar complains as you might have. Lets be logical here and talk of gains and possibilities. Bangladesh and Pakistan have nothing to loose if we stay the way we are but we can expect mutual gains if there is extended cooperation between the two. Pakistan doesn't have the most advance technology available on the planet but we are better off from 10s of countries in many ways and there lies opportunity for Bangladesh to take advantage from that.



No there was no hate in my post but I was referring to the tone of the poster used in his earlier post. Ofcourse we can gain each other as a partner in defence, economy, technology and culture and we did have a common history. Pakistan has its own strength so does Bangladesh. Also Pakistani youths have a keen interest on Bangladesh which could take relationship to a new height in coming future. *India hating * can not and should be the only reason we should work together, infact it should not be the any reason at all.


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## graphican

*@brotherbangladesh,*

Your post wasn't dubious and I think an approach like yours is needed on both sides to make things work for Pakistan and Bangladesh. I would appreciate if you would keep this spirit alive and keep working to make things better for two nations.

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> Let say you are right than what have bangladesh gained by getting stuck in the past when diplomatic tie already established back in 74 when mujib was alive?



Who said we are stuck in the past. You have no idea, how much interest Pakistani Business houses have in Bangladesh. I was surprised seeing so many Pakistani stalls in trade fare currently running in Dhaka. Even small shop keepers from Karachi came here to sell some of their beautifull items. It would have not possible if Bangladesh people and Pakistani people considered themselves as enemy. You will also surprised seeing so many Pakistani professionals working in Bangladesh and their children are getting educated in Bangla. I wont be surprised if I see them getting settled in this country.

By the way AL is in power now...

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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> ----- bengali minded munafiq media-----------


What is your point in criticizing the word 'bengali' in your post? What we are then, Arabs and Persians? You are amazingly disturbed minded. See the geography and check your nationality. You are a guy who would find differences in twin words like Missri and Egyptian, Indian and Bharati, Persian and Irani, Turkic and Uzbeki or Trkmenistani,&#12288;and Bangali and Bangladeshi. 

What is there to criticize if an African is called a Negro or a Qafri or a Habshi? Why should SAUDI Arabia be also named after the family name of King SAUD Ibn Abdul Aziz and its Muslim population be called Saudi citizens? Why don't you say Wastagferullah, then? Grow up from a baby to an adult, and learn not to spit towards the sky. It comes down to your own face.

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## Al-zakir

eastwatch said:


> What is your point in criticizing the word 'bengali' in your post? What we are then, Arabs and Persians? You are amazingly disturbed minded. See the geography and check your nationality. You are a guy who would find differences in twin words like Missri and Egyptian, Indian and Bharati, Persian and Irani, Turkic and Uzbeki or Trkmenistani,&#12288;and Bangali and Bangladeshi.
> 
> What is there to criticize if an African is called a Negro or a Qafri or a Habshi? Why should SAUDI Arabia be also named after the family name of King SAUD Ibn Abdul Aziz and its Muslim population be called Saudi citizens? Why don't you say Wastagferullah, then? Grow up from a baby to an adult, and learn not to spit towards the sky. It comes down to your own face.




Welcome back from hibernation. How is your health? 

Bengali minded media are those who promote Bengali first and Muslim second. Bengali minded are those who promote hindu bengali culture in the name of bengai culture. As a result a segment of our population has become mushrik minded. They don&#8217;t see anything wrong celebrating mushrik ritual like _boishaki mela_. Benglai minded are those low lives who view Islamic garments or culture as foreign concept while wearing _dhoti _as their own. Do I need to explain you any further? You won&#8217;t get it anyway and please do not give me anymore history lesson. 

Let's get back to topic.


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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> Welcome back from hibernation. How is your health?
> 
> Bengali minded media are those who promote Bengali first and Muslim second. Bengali minded are those who promote hindu bengali culture in the name of bengai culture.* As a result a segment of our population has become mushrik minded.* They dont see anything wrong celebrating mushrik ritual like _boishaki mela_. Benglai minded are those low lives who view Islamic garments or culture as foreign concept while wearing _dhoti _as their own. Do I need to explain you any further? You wont get it anyway and please do not give me anymore history lesson.
> 
> Let's get back to topic.



They were like that all along. You just ended up in the wrong land. Your ancestor should have moved westward instead of eastward.


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## Al-zakir

iajdani said:


> They were like that all along. You just ended up in the wrong land. Your ancestor should have moved westward instead of eastward.



Well Only low quality islamic name muslims would celebrate this mushrik culture.

It depend on once upbrining. Prominent muslim never took part of this pagan celebrattion. A muslim should not have to accept unislamic culture despite the land of living. It will be hard to find a muslim that eat pork in western country unless they become kafir.

This Phenomena of taking part of this hindu culture evolved around sixties to humuilate islamic government by munafiq and mushrik elements of then east pakistan. As a result pakistan governemnt banned this event to stop shirk practice.

You do understand that shirk will not be forgiven my Allah. Don't you?

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## TopCat

Al-zakir said:


> Well Only low quality islamic name muslims would celebrate this mushrik culture.
> 
> It depend on once upbrining. Prominent muslim never took part of this pagan celebrattion. A muslim should not have to accept unislamic culture despite the land of living. It will be hard to find a muslim that eat pork in western country unless they become kafir.
> 
> This Phenomena of taking part of this hindu culture evolved around sixties to humuilate islamic government by munafiq and mushrik elements of then east pakistan. As a result pakistan governemnt banned this event to stop shirk practice.
> 
> You do understand that shirk will not be forgiven my Allah. Don't you?



We get saudi TV channel through our cable operator and they have all kind of cultural programs; talk shows, dramas (imported from egypt and lebanon). They also run relentless propaganda praising their King and most of them include dancing in groups holding swords in their hand. Do you consider them Shirk??? If so why you are always after Bengalis a$$? why you never talk about other muslims around the world who never left their culture? Why you never talk about Pakistanis who celebrate Basant Utsab, dancing in their wedding and in every familly occasion which include boys and girls holding their hands and body? Are they shirk?

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## Skies

@ BD members - about celebrating cultural programs in BD.

Do not mix up these three Islamic Cultures, Native Cultures and Hindu Cultures together. 

I mean:
# I should not any problem to celebrate Islamic Cultures like Eid and may others.

# I have no problem to celebrate our Native Cultures like Nobanno Utsob and many others.

# But we should not celebrate those Hindu Cultures like Diwali and others.

So in that case we need to sort out what is Boishaki mela. If it is our Native Culture then we should celebrate it proudly and since we are not worshiping anything at Boishaki mela then how it is sin to celebrate? Take it, just, as a simple fair where people find occasion to celebrate due to arrival of a new Bangla year.

And also every cultures celebrated by Indians/Hindus, *may be*, not related to Hindu religion. Some could be Indian Native Culture like Pakistanis who celebrate Basant Utsab. But we should not promote Hindu Bengali culture in the name of Bengali culture. But, no harm, if we celebrate any country's Native Cultures which are not against Islam. Our Native Cultures define us well, so let celebrate these.


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## Skies

iajdani said:


> You have no idea, how much interest Pakistani Business houses have in Bangladesh. I was surprised seeing so many Pakistani stalls in trade fare currently running in Dhaka. Even small shop keepers from Karachi came here to sell some of their beautiful items. It would have not possible if Bangladesh people and Pakistani people considered themselves as enemy. You will also surprised seeing so many Pakistani professionals working in Bangladesh and their children are getting educated in Bangla. I wont be surprised if I see them getting settled in this country.
> 
> By the way AL is in power now...



No reason to think in this way, since Bangladeshis are not mean minded. We allow every country to promote their products here. No mater, either it is BNP or AL regime.


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## Adios Amigo

iajdani said:


> Why you never talk about Pakistanis who celebrate Basant Utsab, *dancing in their wedding and in every familly occasion which include boys and girls holding their hands and body? *Are they shirk?



what the hell is that???

please refrain from posting false and insulting allegations. 

and don't bring in Pakistan in needless places for comparison sake.






adios


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## eastwatch

iajdani said:


> They were like that all along. You just ended up in the wrong land. Your ancestor should have moved westward instead of eastward.


You have missed one final location for these rootless people, that is, Bay of Bengal. They can drown in that deep sea to relieve themselves from the sin of being born in the hinterland of Bengal. I am fond of history, I read a lot. I am fond of reading about anthropology. And I can attest that there is very little chance that any Bangali Muslim, foreign or local origin, is not mixed-blooded. 

How then this fellow from that uncultured western land can claim that he is pure blooded? By the way, will this claim send him to paradise? I have seen many SAUDI Arabians much shorter than us and much darker than many of us. Some even look like negroes. So, what this rootless Zakir want to tell us by implying that he is of pure-blooded foreign origin, and, therefore, he hates to be called as a Bangali? I find no logic in his assertion. 

I again ask him what difference does it make in the following twin words. Japan and Nippon or Nihon, Thailand and Siam or Siamdesh, Burma and Myammar, China and Shina or Chugoku, Malay and Malaysia, Poland and Polonoi, Holland and Netherlands, Germany and Deutsland (spelling?) etc. Does any group of these contrasting names belong to Hinduism and the other group to non-Hindu?

Why someone should start name calling of others whenever he reads the word Bengali? Do these illiterate Mullahs know that the name 'Subeh' Bengal was given to this region during the rule of the Mughal Emperor Jahangir sometime in 1605? Before that this region was called after the name of its Capital. It was called Lakkhanabati, Gaud, Tanda, Jannatabad etc. We are both Bangalis and also Bangladeshis. I do not see any conflict in these two words.

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## TopCat

eastwatch said:


> . And I can attest that there is very little chance that any Bangali Muslim, foreign or local origin, is not mixed-blooded.




This guy running campaign in facebook for Dhaka city mayor post..

His picture
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29695082@N04/2775923659/

His great great grandfaher's picture who was the foster son of Akbar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/29695082@N04/2775636113/


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## bd_4_ever

The last time i checked....i was in a defence forum.....

Cheers!!!


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## Skies

brotherbangladesh said:


> Would you explain how economy of E. Pak was prosperous from 1960-70? As max ppl know W. Pak used to do partiality to us.





M_Saint said:


> Please compare any decade with 60-70 in BD's known history, when the likes of 4 Universities (CTG, BUET, Rajshahi, Agri), 4 BITS (Rangunia, Ghajipur, Khlishpur and Rajshhi), Komolapur as the finnest Rail Station, Parliament Bhabhan as the finest architecture, 247 jute mills (Adamji as the largest in Asia), Industrial City like Patenga (Steel Mill as one of the largest in south asia, Dry Dock as a great dock yard, Eastern Refinery, GM Plant etc), Khalispur (News Print Mills, Jute mill, Pakshi paper Mill etc), Fenchuganj Fertilizer Factory etc have been built, regards.



Hmm, and you forgot to mention Kaptai Dam which was completed in 1962. It seems our most of *basic* structures was built in that time. And after then no decade is as prosperous as 1960-70 due to our own corruption, political dispute, lacking in skill, common good intention, and patriotism. Although we are little bit modern now but it takes 38 years on the basis of our previous set-up which was built in Pakistan period. 

No doubt, we would more developed either we (Pak-BD) were same country or after separation either *if* BD people&#8217;s had only same philosophy and common vision as max people had in 71. God knows, why BD&#8217;s people are frustrated and divided now who had unity in 71. I feel that there was alternative solution of our independence which we could not find out!


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## Skies

AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:


> Well china is building a SUPER SPEED TRAIN service from China , may be BD (East Pakistan) should get that train , that way we will also get on train to our borders  ....
> 
> Bangladesh - China - Pakistan ... thru the vally !!! May be even all the way to Afghanistan and Iran ...
> 
> I suggest China - Banglades - Paskistan should discuss this in detail ...
> 
> India is too busy ... planning its world domination it does not cares for nothing else , damn building and weapon buying



Can't you understand that you are talking about impossible dream?

BTW, we like pk and thanks for liking us too.


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## eastwatch

brotherbangladesh said:


> Yes I always come up with tons of bull. That's why I get thanks some time also. Strange!
> 
> hm, either I did not say entirely in that post or u did not get what I said.
> 
> BTW, I wanted to mean that even we hate Pak there is no problem to them cos we are not that much *significant partner* to them.
> But if we could make good relation then that could be strategically significant. My intention was to say that there is possibility if we have well relation but no harms that much to both even we hate each other as we r not that much significant partner. And I, just, proposed for good relation for seeking possibilities, not dying for it.
> 
> I wanted to tell to those people who hate Pakistan that even if u hate them then it is not big loss for them. And this very true.
> 
> *BTW, I also consider myself as a 3rd/C class poster *sometimes*.



If only Pakistan makes peace in Afghanistan, and then allows transit routes to the five independent central asian Muslim Republics through Afghanistan and its own land to the sea port of Gwaddar, only then Pakistan will be able to make the best use of its location.

In such a scenerio, BD will significantly gain by doing trades with all these countries through this route. BD's economy will certainly grow to $200 billion after about 12 years from now. A richer BD will need to import many billion dollars worth of goods from this region that also include Pakistan. 

But, is Pakistan moving in that direction? Will this country stop to support the Talebans from fighting against the Kabul govt?


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## mjnaushad

eastwatch said:


> If only Pakistan makes peace in Afghanistan, and then allows transit routes to the five independent central asian Muslim Republics through Afghanistan and its own land to the sea port of Gwaddar, only then Pakistan will be able to make the best use of its location.
> 
> In such a scenerio, BD will significantly gain by doing trades with all these countries through this route. BD's economy will certainly grow to $200 billion after about 12 years from now. A richer BD will need to import many billion dollars worth of goods from this region that also include Pakistan.
> 
> *But, is Pakistan moving in that direction? Will this country stop to support the Talebans from fighting against the Kabul govt?*



You need a little reality check. Do you have any idea how hard we are fighting. How much we lost in this war.? how many families are without any guardians now? You guys don't deserve to be "brother".
Stay happy with your BS posts. you guys can just **** without knowing the ground realities and believe on some propaganda news.

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## eastwatch

mjnaushad said:


> You need a little reality check. Do you have any idea how hard we are fighting. How much we lost in this war.? how many families are without any guardians now? You guys don't deserve to be "brother".
> Stay happy with your BS posts. you guys can just **** without knowing the ground realities and believe on some propaganda news.



Brother Naushad, do not get angry with me. I am a well wisher of Pakistan and am in favour of a better BD-Pakistan relationship. But, when it is reality check, please note that when one group of Talebans are fighting against the govt of Pakistan with the assistance from India, there is another larger group of Talebans who are fighting against the Kabul govt with the tacit help from your ISI or a part of your military, and with Iranian finance.

Your govt has to make every effort to undo things that have been unravelling for more than two decades. If part of your govt keeps on resisting US effort in Afghanistan, and if you do not open the Gwadder route to the central muslim countries, then there is a strong possibility that India and USA will jointly separate Baluchistan to establish such a transit route. 

Why such a trade route is so important to the USA? It is because USA does not want the central muslim republics to fall back on Russia again. They will certainly do so if they do not get into the Arabian Sea through Gwaddar. 

About India. This country wants to do do trade with the potentially rich central asian countries. So, when Pakistan is not willing to provide such a link through its port, India will support a separate Baluchistan movement.

I have stated only a hypothesis. You may do some evaluation of it and come to a conclusion whether my hypothesis is correct or not. Better you understand the geopolitics of the entire region that encompasses central asia and Pakistan.


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## Luftwaffe

eastwatch you have to provide credible proof that ISI is supporting afghan talibans. 
Easy for you to say Baluchistan separation..you got nuclear armed Pakistan..therefore there are no such possibilities merely dreams of certain people. The weapons afghan talibans have are of russian/iran origin..
Pakistan reserves the right to whom we open Gawadar route or not.


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## Skies

Either it&#8217;s true or false but those people (_in BD too_) who do not know well about pk believe, for some obvious reasons (_propaganda or true_), that Pk supports the Talibans and those people dislike pk for that. We, the BD PDF members know that PK is good but what about them who know pk by only media or propaganda? Well, LeT is fighting for Kashmir but what about Talibans? Talibans are real terrorist group for every country. Pk needs a huge budget along with its war budget to prove that &#8220;Ye hum nehi&#8221; to the world.

And about Baluchistan, be sure India/usa can&#8217;t do anything. Yes, we hope one day BD will use pk route to export its products to those central Asian countries by using Gwaddar port. And be sure it too, *even if* pk supports some Talibans then consider it as a political strategy as like USA did in Iraq with false excuse to take strategically benefits. ISI is not any stupid like our intel who have no counter policy to face India&#8217;s bad policy. So in that sense *if* (_not sure_) ISI helps Let then it&#8217;s good for Kashmir issue. I mean if India supports in our CHT problem then we should take counter policy to support their NE problems. Why our intel is so immature?


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## eastwatch

luftwaffe said:


> eastwatch you have to provide credible proof that ISI is supporting afghan talibans.
> Easy for you to say Baluchistan separation..you got nuclear armed Pakistan..therefore there are no such possibilities merely dreams of certain people. The weapons afghan talibans have are of russian/iran origin..
> Pakistan reserves the right to whom we open Gawadar route or not.



Nuclear armed USSR has been divided into many. Nuclear armed India seeks BD cooperation in its NE to stop disintegration. So, this power will not help you. Pakistan can get best results out of its strong location only by fulfilling the desire and aspirations of the USA and the central asian muslim countries.

This aspiration is to get an exit to the Arabian sea through Gowaddar port, which these countries can use to trade with south asian countries like BD and India as well as with countries of southeast asia. If it is not fulfilled, then the USA assumes that someday the independent republics will again seek domination by the Russians.

USA and India both have stakes in Gwaddar. They will not make any direct attacks, but will try separatist activities in Baluchistan covertly. 

By the way, where do you propose to drop your atomic bomb? You must be naive to think that way. An atomic weapon may prevent an enemy from attacking its territory, but it does not necessarily provide any guarantee of a win over a separatist movement.


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## Luftwaffe

eastwatch because if india has to directly involve its self in the separation of Baluchistan than on the other side Pakistan will launch a full scale incursion and counter ops to over take Occupied Kashmir and this will turn into bloody war and that is where the possibility of nukes come into..its not a video game to over take a remote land and separate it do you not see the air/naval/land resistance india will face? and possibility of China to over take its land further putting pressure on india to withdraw and commit its resources other way..It is simply not easy for india..india is in no position to open 3 fronts..
Separatist are active in Baluchistan but this is not 1971 all who declare it would be arrested prosecuted court martial and thrown into prisons..you want example? look at Myanmar there is a party fully funded and supported by us but failed disastrously.


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## TopCat

I dont think Belochistan anyway near to get separated from Pakistan. USA will not support that as they are committed to Pakistan's territorial integrity. In its remote possiblity, even Beluchistan gets separated it will become another Afganistan not another Kuwait and will not serve any purpose to anybody.


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## eastwatch

luftwaffe said:


> eastwatch because if india has to directly involve its self in the separation of Baluchistan than on the other side Pakistan will launch a full scale incursion and counter ops to over take Occupied Kashmir and this will turn into bloody war and that is where the possibility of nukes come into..its not a video game to over take a remote land and separate it do you not see the air/naval/land resistance india will face? and possibility of China to over take its land further putting pressure on india to withdraw and commit its resources other way..It is simply not easy for india..india is in no position to open 3 fronts..
> Separatist are active in Baluchistan but this is not 1971 all who declare it would be arrested prosecuted court martial and thrown into prisons..you want example? look at Myanmar there is a party fully funded and supported by us but failed disastrously.



As I have said early, India and USA will only use covert methods to create problem in Baluchistan unless Pakistan is ready to open route to Gwaddar ultimately. By the way, a 90km long railway line is now under construction from the Uzhbek border to Mazaar-i-Sharif. 

This rail line is supposed to be extended someday to Mardan and then to Gwaddar for use as a trading route for the central Asian countries. But, Taleban fighting will keep on disrupting this program. 

Even if Pakistan wants now to distance itself from the Taleban in Afghanistan, it cannot do it. Because, the present Kabul govt is fully supported by India. So, India-Pakistan rivalry is influencing the ongoing fighting in that country.


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## akash57

Pakistan NDU team meets Bangladesh President
'Pakistan Times' Wire Service
DHAKA: The visiting delegation of Pakistan National Defense University (NDU) called on President Zillur Rahman at the Presidents Secretariat in Dhaka Tuesday.

As part of the Overseas Study Tour in the SAARC region, the 21-member Pakistan NDU team, led by Brigadier General Muhammad Tauqeer Ahmed, is visiting Bangladesh from May 2 to 7.

The President welcomed the delegation and expressed his satisfaction over training cooperation among the national defense institutes of the region. This kind of training programme should continue which is mutually beneficial, he said.

The delegation members apprised the Bangladesh President that the visit would give an opportunity to exchange thoughts and ideas between senior military and civil officials of the friendly countries.

President Zillur Rahman thanked the delegation for visiting Bangladesh. The delegation consists of two faculty members and 19 course members -- 12 from Pakistan, five from Nigeria, one from the United Kingdom and one from Oman.

According to another report; the Federation of Bangladesh Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FBCCI) President Annisul Huq on Tuesday sought active cooperation of Pakistani entrepreneurs in facing many challenges and opportunities globalization has brought in for the private enterprises.

He made the plea while addressing a delegation of Pakistan National Defence University (NDU) at FBCCI in Dhaka. The FBCCI president said that his organization was playing a pivotal role through dialogues, consultations and interactions with the government to improve the environment for doing business.

A 19-member delegation of Pakistan NDU led by Brigadier Muhammad Tauqeer Ahmed attended the meeting. Officers of Pakistan, Nigeria, UK, and Oman were present in the meeting. The meeting was chaired by FBCCI President Annisul Huq.

The FBCCI president appreciated the Pakistan NDU members for their interest to interact and share knowledge with the private sector of Bangladesh. He discussed the role of FBCCI as well as the recent state of the Bangladesh economy, its performance, policy environment and investment opportunities.

He said that the private sector has already demonstrated its capability and buoyancy in the economy. He also informed his audience of the private sectors rising share in investment, employment, export, etc.

Brigadier Muhammad Tauqeer Ahmed, leader of the Pakistan NDU delegation in his speech said that visiting the FBCCI was part of their curriculum. He also appreciated the role of FBCCI as the apex trade organization in the national economy of Bangladesh. Tauqeer Ahmed expressed his gratitude for this educative and informative meeting organized by FBCCI.

A question and answer session was also held on bilateral trade, investment, export, SAFTA and other related issues. Abdul Haque, Kamran T Rahman, Obaidur Rahman, M Farukul Islam Shova and Shafquat Haider, Directors of FBCCI took part in the discussion.

Pakistan NDU team meets Bangladesh President


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## Skies

Which country has the brighter future prosperity in context of peace and their respective political stability?



PK or BD?


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## sohan

Skies said:


> Which country has the brighter future prosperity in context of peace and their respective political stability?
> 
> 
> 
> PK or BD?



Peace and political stability: BD
Prosperity (economy wise): Pakistan


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## Skies

sohan said:


> Peace and political stability: BD
> Prosperity (economy wise): Pakistan



Right but that is strange that:

BD has failed to raise its economy up to optimum level even it has more peace and political stability. And even PK has less peace and political stability but they have well economy than us. I think, BD has small ambition so we are no able to set a prospers economy.


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## sohan

Skies said:


> Right but that is strange that:
> 
> BD has failed to raise its economy up to optimum level even it has more peace and political stability. And even PK has less peace and political stability but they have well economy than us. I think, BD has small ambition so we are no able to set a prospers economy.



Since its inception West Pakistan and now Pakistan has been the richer of the two.

Nothing's changed.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

sohan said:


> Since its inception West Pakistan and now Pakistan has been the richer of the two.
> 
> Nothing's changed.



After independence Pakistan was the poorest and most back word region in s asia.
We had 1 jute mill,1 textile mill and only 1 university.....now compaire wat india had?

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## sarthak

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> After independence Pakistan was the poorest and most back word region in s asia.
> We had 1 jute mill,1 textile mill and only 1 university.....now compaire wat india had?



We had pretty much the same , maybe a little more ,with a bigger population to control.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

sarthak said:


> *We had pretty much the same *, maybe a little more ,with a bigger population to control.



Go read about it buddy.......For starters u had more then 16 ordinance factories lol........now go and google about it.Rather then posting wat u dont even know about.
Thanks

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## Kambojaric

India also held 550 million rupees that were to be given to Pakistan uptil 48. It was only when Gandhi went on a hunger strike to death that the indian givernment decided to give pakistan its rightful share. This is one of the reasons why he was murdered by extremist hindus.

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## Indian Gurkha

Wrong... BD channels have huge demand in Calcutta and other NE states.. These were categorically discouraged...
Other BD products, India always plays cat and mouse games. Like they say you can export, but in NE indian importer was barred to open LC to BD. Also Indian Government put anti dumping on BD products. They also put some testing criteria (intentionally) to discourage BD imports. Indian government also never allowed until recently, Bangladeshi investment in India. If you were a businessman you will know how hard it is to export in India..

The only reason India does not say You Cant Export is that Bangladesh Import 3 Billion dollar worth of goods from India even though they are mostly essential items like spices and raw materials..




sir m from NE but the demand for bangla channels is not so huge as u make out to be.regarding West Bengal m not so sure.besides we really have ur PRAN brand confectionaries here.they are cheap and good specially the litchi drink. regards.

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## Al-zakir

Skies said:


> Which country has the brighter future prosperity in context of peace and their respective political stability?
> PK or BD?



Big mouth bd(east Pakistani) politician told that our jute was running west Pakistan and without our jute they will seize to exist. 

People like Adamji was the main driving force behind prosperous jute industry that earned a lot of foreign cash for us. We have deprived them and took their property illegally. It takes brain and know how to produce fine quality products from raw jute. Our farmer know how to grow the jute but there are no Adamji to recapture world jute products market.......

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## TopCat

Skies said:


> Which country has the brighter future prosperity in context of peace and their respective political stability?
> 
> 
> 
> PK or BD?



Your over simplified grade 5 level question makes me laugh sometimes.
Its hard to project future but we can see the trends here and try to assume. Pakistan is rich in natural resources, their government has already invested far more money than our government. Also Pakistan is blessed by foreign aid and military assistance. Their roads are wider, cities are cleaner and they dress up well than us. They also have a matured and older enterpreneur class. Their growth rate is unpredictable and bumpy and does not stand on solid ground. The reason I will come later.

There are few dissimalirities betewee Pakistan and Bangladesh society. We are basically peasant class society. Most of the people have root as farmer and the enterpreneur class is very new. Society still evolving in a rapid speed. There are some disadvantage to that and again it is working for our own advantage. As the society which has the same root are bound to be the inclusive than exclusive which you see in India or somewhat in Pakistan. Politicians and bureucrat here have a tendency to lean towards rural and agro development and in most part of 70's, 80's and 90's our government worked towards that goal. Thats why you see so many free primary school, LGED (Local Government Engineering Department), LGRD (Local Government and Rural Development), REB (Rural Electrification Board) and had the highest allocation in our development budget. The end result is we have the best rural infrastructure in south asia. While doing that we ignored 4 lane highways, planned city development, bigger infrastructure in rail, port, airport etc. Also governemt was shy in investing in any state owned enterpises.

Now was it a wrong approach? Well somewhat Yes or No. I wish they had allocated more money on few more highways and electricity generation. But we just started working on these while we already hit the infrastructure bottleneck. We can not grow any faster based on our existing infrastructure, that is what economist are saying. Once electricity problem solved within this year and few of the highways completed than our economy will grow faster than 8&#37; or more and will be *sustained*.

Lets go back to the basic, why Pakistan economy does not grow steadily despite huge resources while Bangladesh shows more resillient than Pakistan. The answer is simple and a one liner. Bangladesh economy is self driven while Pakistan economy is imposed. Pakistan economy still based on huge governement spending. As long as governemnt spend economy grows. Pakistan private investment is very low compared to their GDP. If we go back to year 2007-8 when Pakistan was growing at faster pace (7-8%), the then private investment to GDP was only 13% and Government spending was more than 11%. That means almost half of the investment came from Government spending (The figure i recalls from my memory so may not be precise). Also the growth was somewhat depndent on FDI and portfolio investment. Service and financial sector got the highest amount of FDI. On the contratry in Bangladesh the growth is mainly driven by private domestic investment. 19% of the GDP invested from private sector and only 5% came from government spending. There is almost negligible FDI. That is the main reason Pakistan growth did not sustain but BD did and it will. Unless Pakistan could go back to the basic and does some homework then it will never be able to catch up with BD. BD economy will grow in higher speed as soon as government start spending and the investment/GDP ratio raised to 30% of GDP which will be in 2 years time. Private sector investment needs to be raised little bit to 22% and some FDI that is on pipeline on big infrastructure project like electricity generation, highways, port, airport etc and when hit the ground then the investment/GDP ratio will be raised to 33 to 35% which is needed for double digit growth rate. Its not dream anymore but reality. Can Pakistan raise the investment scenario to BD level in short term? Hard task indeed...

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## Skies

iajdani said:


> Your over simplified grade 5 level question makes me laugh sometimes.



Its a naïve question to you but its was basic and important question to me since once we were same country and now one country is facing war everyday and another is in well peace with better political stability. And I asked about peace and political stability but not about economy, but, whatever, youve also discussed something valuable against my question but in context of economy which I did not ask for.



iajdani said:


> *Politicians and bureucrat here have a tendency to lean towards rural and agro development* and in most part of 70's, 80's and 90's our government worked towards that goal. Thats why you see so many free primary school, LGED (Local Government Engineering Department), LGRD (Local Government and Rural Development), REB (Rural Electrification Board) and had the highest allocation in our development budget. *The end result is we have the best rural infrastructure in south asia. While doing that we ignored 4 lane highways, planned city development, bigger infrastructure in rail, port, airport etc.* Also governemt was shy in investing in any state owned enterpises.
> 
> Now was it a wrong approach? Well somewhat Yes or No. I wish they had allocated more money on few more highways and electricity generation. But we just started working on these while we already hit the infrastructure bottleneck. We can not grow any faster based on our existing infrastructure, that is what economist are saying. Once electricity problem solved within this year and few of the highways completed than our economy will grow faster than 8% or more and will be *sustained*.



Well I did not know these points. Ive came know something from your reply that is how and where our money is investing as you said that our policy makers tend to invest more in rural development than in urban areas. You said: we are investing in primary school, LGED (Local Government Engineering Department), LGRD (Local Government and Rural Development), REB (Rural Electrification Board). So does not PK investing in those sectors?! I think they are also investing on those sectors beside other sectors where we are not investing much in other sectors for our inability.



iajdani said:


> Lets go back to the basic, why Pakistan economy does not grow steadily despite huge resources while Bangladesh shows more resillient than Pakistan. The answer is simple and a one liner. Bangladesh economy is self driven while Pakistan economy is imposed. Pakistan economy still based on huge governement spending. As long as governemnt spend economy grows. Pakistan private investment is very low compared to their GDP. If we go back to year 2007-8 when Pakistan was growing at faster pace (7-8%), the then private investment to GDP was only 13% and Government spending was more than 11%. That means almost half of the investment came from Government spending (The figure i recalls from my memory so may not be precise). Also the growth was somewhat depndent on FDI and portfolio investment. Service and financial sector got the highest amount of FDI. On the contratry in Bangladesh the growth is mainly driven by private domestic investment. 19% of the GDP invested from private sector and only 5% came from government spending. There is almost negligible FDI. That is the main reason Pakistan growth did not sustain but BD did and it will. *Unless Pakistan could go back to the basic and does some homework then it will never be able to catch up with BD. BD economy will grow in higher speed as soon as government start spending and the investment/GDP ratio raised to 30% of GDP which will be in 2 years time. Private sector investment needs to be raised little bit to 22% and some FDI that is on pipeline on big infrastructure project like electricity generation, highways, port, airport etc and when hit the ground then the investment/GDP ratio will be raised to 33 to 35% which is needed for double digit growth rate. Its not dream anymore but reality. Can Pakistan raise the investment scenario to BD level in short term? Hard task indeed...*



Well, here you are saying that our economy is more prosperous in future than PKs. Now lets see that either other members will agree with you or not.

* how do you know about the percentages very well like 30%, 35%, 22% ..........?


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## gowthamraj

After reading the all 23 pages, one thing clearly visible is THE CORE REASON FOR PAKISTAN STRONG RELATION IS NOTHING BUT ANTI INDIA SENTIMENTS . 





I dont try to troll here. where you read the whole thread with open mind you understood what i mean. .


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## TopCat

Skies said:


> Well I did not know these points. Ive came know something from your reply that is how and where our money is investing as you said that our policy makers tend to invest more in rural development than in urban areas. You said: we are investing in primary school, LGED (Local Government Engineering Department), LGRD (Local Government and Rural Development), REB (Rural Electrification Board). So does not PK investing in those sectors?! I think they are also investing on those sectors beside other sectors where we are not investing much in other sectors for our inability.



Bangladesh invested highest among the south asian countries in rural infrastructure not that other did not do it.


> Well, here you are saying that our economy is more prosperous in future than PKs. Now lets see that either other members will agree with you or not.
> 
> ** how do you know about the percentages very well like 30%, 35%, 22% ..........?*



I read.


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## Contrarian

You know in the end it boils down to education...

If you are able to produce a quality educated workforce then your country will be on the high growth path. It however takes decades for the money put in education to bear fruit.

Till the time you dont produce the 'critical mass' of educated workforce, there will be brain drain but when you hit that required number, people will start becoming entrepreneurs on their own. Invest heavily in your education institutions and they will bear fruit.

This helped India. India has always had bad governments and consequently pathetic infrastructure. Infrastructure that couldnt support manufacturing in a big way. So we couldnt go the China way for high growth. But India had much better human capital compared to China so the services industry developed and led the way for high growth of the country. Services industry requires a _much_ longer term but smaller investment to develop.

Now you see India trying to become a manufacturing hub and China trying to enter the services industry. Both will succeed

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## eastwatch

ahmeddsid said:


> ?? where is it said that Bangla Products are banned??? Its a blog right not a news source! and It was reported before that Arab Channels are banned, but I get Al Jazeera and Saudi Channel 1 in India! Bangla channels need to fulfill some procedures before they can be aired! Come on, Indian channels are famous everywhere, its just a ploy by the Bangla tv channels to stop the entry on Indian channels!


Not only BD products, but also Bangla TV channels are banned in India. You do not need a link to know that.


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## Old School

I usually do not comment on Bangladeshi matters . However, seeing this thread on Pakistan- Bangladesh defence relation , I started reading it. Why on earth discussion on whether Bangladeshi TV channels are being banned in India or not is in this thread ? If there is nothing to discuss on Pakistan-Bangladesh relation , close the thread.


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## mikkix

Hey **** broz,,
I congratz to all Bdz for upgrading their army,,,,if bd economy will surpass pakistan so what its gr8 to c sum muslim nation arrives in a different platform..
Go Bd Go,,,I am with you,
there should not be such comparison like pakistan and bangladesh...
We are brothers and we will live up to it...

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## sab

BD TV channels had huge demand in West Bengal...say 10 years ago..before the arraival of Private Channels. But now nobody watches even Duradarshan, forget about BD channel. BTW, is 'Tara Bangla' a BD channel? I get it here.


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## Skies

^ Some members can not comprehend the situation. Don't you have seen post # 344. Cross post can be use for avoiding off topic.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Skies said:


> ^ Some members are retarded. Don't you have seen post # 344. Cross post can be use for avoiding off topic.



Not from our side(Paskistan)....We support Bengladesh and dont compaire it with Pakistan.
We wish Bengladesh well.
It was a part of our country.gave sarifices in 47 and 65 ..... but due to ..... in 71 brothers killed brothers and enemies took advantage of it.
Anyways.lets not dwell in the past.look for the future.....like to see Pak-bengla defence relations,peace and brotherhood.

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## eastwatch

Al-zakir said:


> Big mouth bd(east Pakistani) politician told that our jute was running west Pakistan and without our jute they will seize to exist.
> 
> People like Adamji was the main driving force behind prosperous jute industry that earned a lot of foreign cash for us. We have deprived them and took their property illegally. It takes brain and know how to produce fine quality products from raw jute. Our farmer know how to grow the jute but there are no Adamji to recapture world jute products market.......


Where did you find this trash type of information you rapist Razakar? Do not distort historical facts about politics as well as economy. You are such a lier stupid. Why do you still hold a BD citizenship? Why do not you go to another trash country for the sake of Allah, and leave us alone?

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## Silver-Scorpion

gowthamraj said:


> After reading the all 23 pages, one thing clearly visible is THE CORE REASON FOR PAKISTAN STRONG RELATION IS NOTHING BUT ANTI INDIA SENTIMENTS .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I dont try to troll here. where you read the whole thread with open mind you understood what i mean. .



Well I personally have nothing against Indians and I don't think most Pakistanis have anything against Indians as well, its just that due to the harsh beginnings and the subsequent wars, its natural to see India as a threat. In fact I have a lot of Indian friends. It's just India is the only threat when it comes to defense of Pakistan.

Now to get back to the topic. I m definitely a supporter of BD and Pak cooperation in every sector.

I hope this would some day happen between all South Asian nations. If all the South Asian nations cooperate they can all soon become top economies in the world.


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## Al-zakir

eastwatch said:


> Where did you find this trash type of information you rapist Razakar? Do not distort historical facts about politics as well as economy. You are such a lier stupid. Why do you still hold a BD citizenship? Why do not you go to another trash country for the sake of Allah, and leave us alone?



Hey moron. I hope the Psychiatric can repair what's left in your unworthy brain. You malaun.


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## Al-zakir

Ramazan is ahead but many of our Pakistani brothers and sisters would be struggling for food due to massive flood. I urge my Bangladeshi brothers to open your heart in this Merciful month and donate generously. Remember even a dollar can put a big smile on kid face. If you can put a smile on kid face then Allah will smile at you and if Allah smile then you will be smiling to eternity. 

Our brother *Bezerk*( modorator) has done some great work to help out the needy with phase I. He is about to start phase II ahead of Ramazan but need donation. Please visit the following thread and donate through this forum. You can either PM Bezerk or Zaki for detail. 

Thanks 

Phase I
http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...8315-flood-relief-operation-2010-phase-i.html

Donate for here.
Pakistan Defence Forum - PayPal Donate

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## British_Bangladeshi

Al-zakir said:


> Ramazan is ahead but many of our Pakistani brothers and sisters would be struggling for food due to massive flood. I urge my Bangladeshi brothers to open your heart in this Merciful month and donate generously. Remember even a dollar can put a big smile on kid face. If you can put a smile on kid face then Allah will smile at you and if Allah smile then you will be smiling to eternity.
> 
> Our brother *Bezerk*( modorator) has done some great work to help out the needy with phase I. He is about to start phase II ahead of Ramazan but need donation. Please visit the following thread and donate through this forum. You can either PM Bezerk or Zaki for detail.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Phase I
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...8315-flood-relief-operation-2010-phase-i.html
> 
> Donate for here.
> Pakistan Defence Forum - PayPal Donate


I will ask my dad , yeah I'm 14.


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## Al-zakir

British_Bangladeshi said:


> I will ask my dad , yeah I'm 14.



Not a problem little brother. I am sorry about harsh comment made earlier. I though you are older. 

Ask your dad, friends and family to donate. Allah love it when we spend toward charity.


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## British_Bangladeshi

Al-zakir said:


> Not a problem little brother. I am sorry about harsh comment made earlier. I though you are older.
> 
> Ask your dad, friends and family to donate. Allah love it when we spend toward charity.


Don't worry about it...


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## Al-zakir

I clearly remembered Pakistan sent us aid when Sidr hit us in 2007. It's bloody shame that Bangladesh didn't send any aid to Pakistan. It is also month of Ramazan. Some Sons and doughters of bastards running the country for sure.

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## Skies

^


Patriot said:


> Do you know Pakistan gifted some F6 Fighter Jet to Bangladesh they were in base and then a cyclone came and took fighter jets with them.



Is that true? 

BTW, I also know that PK helped us in flood in 1998 or 2004 by food or medicine supply.

Also I heard that India announced $5 mil.


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## leonblack08

Skies said:


> ^
> 
> 
> Is that true?



That's true.

The F-6s were damaged during flood.And are now in retirement.

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## Old School

leonblack08 said:


> That's true.
> 
> The F-6s were damaged during flood.And are now in retirement.



We did that deal in 1987 with the BAF .


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## Skies

Al-zakir said:


> I clearly remembered Pakistan sent us aid when Sidr hit us in 2007. It's bloody shame that Bangladesh didn't send any aid to Pakistan.



I just have saw some pics of flood affected people in there. Really, BD should do something as an experienced flood affected country. It's a total shame for BD if we keeep quiet. Although we have many experiences of flood but they never faced any flood like now before.


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## Al-zakir

Skies said:


> I just have saw some pics of flood affected people in there. Really, BD should do something as an experienced flood affected country. It's a total shame for BD if we keeep quiet. Although we have many experiences of flood but they never faced any flood like now before.



BNP government helped Pakistan aftermath of 2005 earthquake. Morever Begum Zia visited affected area. It was good cooperation between two close Muslim nations in SA. 

What they need is food and medicine and I know we have enough to help them out in the time need but Al is in power. It's month of Ramazan. So I was hoping Al goverment at least would have extend the hand behalf of Bangladeshi people to Pakistanis in the spirit of Ramazan but dissapointed. This munafiqs probably praying for Pakistan destruction. Let alone help them with anything. Pakistan will get by whether we help them out or not but Al bastards has set up a bad example for years to come. This black hearted Awamis are curse to Bangladeshi Muslims.    Al munafiqs.

Does any Bangladeshi member disagree with me? Isn't Awami setting up bad, heartless, careless, brainless and souless example here??


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## TopCat

I agree Bangladesh should send relief and volunteer team to Pakistan. They always did in Myanamar, Srilanka, Pakistan, USA, China and many other countries not sure about India though.

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## Skies

* Now in some pictures Pakistan looks like typical Bangladesh of rainy season, that is the lands are submerged under water. 



More!: http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...avy-rains-lash-flood-hit-pakistan-images.html


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## Al-zakir

*Pak High Commission gifts computers to Bangladeshi schools*


Staff Reporter

The High Commission for Pakistan in Dhaka gifted twenty sets of computers with all accessories to two schools in the country on August 11. The schools are Maskata Dighi Maltili High School in Rajshahi and Jaintapur Government High School in Sylhet. The computers were given to help the schools in establishing computer laboratories. Ashraf Qureshi, High Commissioner of Pakistan to Bangladesh handed over the computers to the representatives of both institutions.

While delivering the gifts, Ashraf Qureshi said the government of Pakistan, as a policy, is trying to assist Bangladesh in capacity building at grassroots level through the establishment of computer laboratories in educational institutes across the country. This is in line with the vision of Prime MInister Sheikh Hasina for a digital Bangladesh, he added.



However, about 50 laboratories with 500 computers have so far been established at various educational institutions throughout the country. Bangladesh Ministry of Science and Information Technology is supporting the High Commission in identifying the educational institutions for establishment of laboratories.


The New Nation - Internet Edition


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## British_Bangladeshi

Skies said:


> * Now in some pictures Pakistan looks like typical Bangladesh of rainy season, that is the lands are submerged under water.
> 
> 
> 
> More!: http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...avy-rains-lash-flood-hit-pakistan-images.html


After seeing this and the news my dad donated &#163;2500, and I also gave &#163;100 of my pocket money if that helps, hope this helps, and can someone tell me how many familys will &#163;2500 feed approximately and how many familys would &#163;100 feed? 
hope to see this money go into good use, I would have spended this money on games and etc...

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## Luftwaffe

Is it *Bangladesh-Pakistan Defense* relations thread? what are you guys discussing.


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## satishkumarcsc

British_Bangladeshi said:


> After seeing this and the news my dad donated £2500, and I also gave £100 of my pocket money if that helps, hope this helps, and can someone tell me how many familys will £2500 feed approximately and how many familys would £100 feed?
> hope to see this money go into good use, I would have spended this money on games and etc...



Trust me it would have fed atleast 2 mouths. rest will be eaten on the way. Kudos to you.


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## Luftwaffe

British_Bangladeshi...this 2600 pound sterling is good enough to feed people. 400.00 rupees food survival kit pack for a small family or number people (3) would last 3-4 days. You can estimate it how many families would be fed on this 2600 pounds sterling. I guess 1600+ people for sure for 3/4 days.


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## eastwatch

Pictures of flood and the human suffering in Pakistan that are seen in the news media are alarming. Not even in BD, floods make this kind havoc as it is in Pakistan this time. Moreover, BD people are very used to it and are not afraid of flood water. But, Pakistanis do not have similar experience before. 

BD's previous experience shows that the main havoc comes when flood water goes down. I hope it does not happen, but, there are possibilities of outbreak of water-borne diseases when water starts to drain out.

I am surprised to see not a single news in any BD newspaper about what the GoB is going to do to help Pakistan in its dire time. When Christian western countries are coming forward to help, BD and other muslim countries are not forthcoming with their own plan. 

What is the benefit of Islamic organizations if they cannot act in cohesion when another muslim country is in need. These muslim leaders have already wasted hundreds of millions of dollars to attend all those fancy meetings.


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## Patriot

Sir to be fair Saudi Arabia has donated 100 million now much higher then any other country but BD can't donate much sir it's not a oil middle east rich country.

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## bd_4_ever

AFAIK, Bangladesh announced $2m aid to flood victims in Pakistan....i think we had the capability to provide more....

Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha (BSS)


Cheers!!!

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## British_Bangladeshi

bd_4_ever said:


> AFAIK, Bangladesh announced $2m aid to flood victims in Pakistan....i think we had the capability to provide more....
> 
> Bangladesh Sangbad Sangstha (BSS)
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!


Thats good to hear!, hope pakistan recover.


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## Skies

British_Bangladeshi said:


> Thats good to hear!, hope pakistan recover.



i think u guyz missed this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...ces-usd-2-million-pakistan-flood-victims.html


btw, If Afghan can afford $ 1 mil then why BD only..................!

Whatever, at least AL has done something.

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## Al-zakir

I request Bd members to donate. If everyone join hand then we could achieve much success. At least send your Zakat money.

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## Skies

*BRAC and American Pakistan Foundation (APF) Join Hands in Post-Flood Rehabilitation Efforts in Pakistan *

_Almost 21 million people are now reported as having been directly affected by the devastating floods in Pakistan. With 23 out of 94 BRAC Pakistan&#8217;s microfinance branches affected by the flooding, BRAC is close to the people and communities that have been suffering as the disaster began to unfold in July. The American Pakistan Foundation will be supporting BRAC, through its U.S. affiliate BRAC USA, to start livelihood recovery efforts across three districts in the Khyber Pakhtunwa province of Pakistan. _

New York, NY (PRWEB) September 18, 2010 

Almost 21 million people are now reported as having been directly affected by the devastating floods in Pakistan. With 23 out of 94 BRAC Pakistan&#8217;s microfinance branches affected by the flooding, BRAC is close to the people and communities that have been suffering as the disaster began to unfold in July. 

&#8220;The rains started on July 28th and within the weekend 9 out of 12 of our microfinance branches were flooded,&#8221; said Sir Fazle Hasan Abed, Founder and Chairperson of BRAC. He noted that &#8220;As a NGO that originated in Bangladesh, we are very familiar with floods and cyclones. We have worked on emergencies for many years. In Pakistan BRAC started relief work immediately. People had lost everything and they needed us to help them.&#8221;

BRAC Pakistan launched relief efforts using its institutional knowledge of emergency relief, and its network of community volunteers to identify and provide support to communities in greatest need benefiting over 200,000 people.

As the flood waters recede, rebuilding the lives of those who have most suffered will be the primary focus of the BRAC partnership with the American Pakistan Foundation.







*Women preparing emergency food packets for BRAC's relief effort in Pakistan*


Mr. Awais Khan, CEO of the American Pakistan Foundation, said &#8220;We want to ensure that people recover their assets and their ability to earn an income so they can regain their dignity. We are confident that our partnership with BRAC is a great step towards this recovery effort.&#8221;

The American Pakistan Foundation will be supporting BRAC, through its U.S. affiliate BRAC USA, to start livelihood recovery efforts across three districts in the Khyber Pakhtunwa province of Pakistan. The program will enable 200 households, particularly the most vulnerable and marginalized, who have been completely devastated by the disaster, to recover their assets and livelihoods. 

Susan Davis, President & CEO of BRAC USA, stated that &#8220;BRAC is committed to working with the flood affected communities and for Pakistan&#8217;s development.&#8221; She said, &#8220;We are very pleased to partner with the American Pakistan Foundation, because of its deep and long term commitment to the country.&#8221; Ms. Davis added that &#8220;BRAC USA encourages people to join this partnership and text BRAC to 20222 to give $10 through their cell phone. We hope to work together to mobilize wider support and empathy for the plight of those suffering from conflict and disaster, and generate greater action.&#8221;

About BRAC 
BRAC, the largest non-profit in the developing world, was launched in Bangladesh in 1972 and currently touches the lives of more than 138 million people through its programs addressing poverty including micro-loans, education, health services, self-employment opportunities and human rights education. BRAC has provided $6.7 billion in micro-loans to nearly eight million borrowers, mostly women, and created 9 million self-employment opportunities. BRAC&#8217;s 84,000 community health promoters have provided basic health services to nearly 100 million people. Currently, BRAC has programs in Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Haiti, Liberia, Pakistan, Sierra Leone, Southern Sudan, Sri Lanka, Tanzania and Uganda. 

BRAC began operations in Pakistan in 2007 through a microfinance program. It serves over 106,000 members in 94 branches. It has cumulatively disbursed $18 million in loans averaging $161 and has loans outstanding of $7.7 million. In addition to microfinance, BRAC now operates programs in health and education. Through its almost 1,000 staff, BRAC is currently serving about 437,465 people in 14 districts across four provinces. 

BRAC USA is a 501(c)3 affiliate in New York. To learn more about BRAC, please visit About BRAC USA | BRAC-About BRAC USA.

BRAC Pakistan 

About BRAC Pakistan | BRAC-About BRAC Pakistan

About BRAC Pakistan
BRAC is a development organisation dedicated to alleviating poverty by empowering the poor to bring about change in their own lives. We were founded in Bangladesh in 1972 and over the course of our evolution, established ourselves as a pioneer in recognising and tackling the many different realities of poverty. More&#8230;


BRAC PK project pictures:





BRAC Pakistan Education





BRAC Pakistan Small Enterprise Loan





BRAC Pakistan Microfinance Programme





BRAC Pakistan Health





Participate in Pakistan Flood relief and rehabilitation efforts

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## Skies

*Bangladesh FS to be in Pak tomorrow for talks*

STAFF WRITER 18:51 HRS IST
Islamabad, Oct 29 (PTI) Bangladesh Foreign Secretary M Mijarul Quayes will tomorrow begin a five-day visit to Pakistan for the fifth round of Foreign Secretary-level bilateral consultations between the two countries.

The consultations, to be held in Islamabad on November 1, will focus on a wide range of subjects of mutual importance and regional and global interest, the Foreign Office said in a statement.

The last round of consultations between the two countries was held in Dhaka in 2007.

Quayes will have other meetings, including a call on Foreign Minister Shah Mahmood Qureshi.

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## Stealth_fighter

even in here in the U.K British bangladeshi peoples donated a lot of money for the flood victims of pakistan.various charities like muslim aid,islamic relief,just help foundation and many others made charrity appeal in bengali tv channels.people donated generously and even i saw many people were crying in the donation hotline to c the poor condition after disaster..i remember one lady called in the studio,was crying n saying pls help,u could be there in such situation...Bengali community showed great sympathy for their pakistani brothers

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## leonblack08

Slightly old news:

*Western Marine building ferries for Pakistan*
Business Desk

Local shipbuilder Western Marine Shipyard Limited has started building two passenger carriers for Karachi Port Trust of Pakistan.
The company that got a $2.35 million contract from KPT recently for building two ferries held a keel-laying ceremony for the vessels last week said a press release.
The vessels -- each 30 metre long with capacity to carry 200 passengers -- will be built under the supervision of French classification society Bureau Veritas and are expected to be delivered in November 2011, it said.
The KPT floated an international tender in February 2009 for construction of the two passenger carriers and Western Marine won the contract beating shipyards of shipbuilding nations including South Korea, UAE, Sri Lanka and Pakistan, said the company.
Company officials said that they were now eyeing entry into more SAARC countries.
Western Marine chairman Saiful Islam said after a successful foray into European market, the company had focused on SAARC countries considering huge prospect.
The company managing director Sakhawat Hossain hoped that the successful completion of this project would draw more shipbuilding orders from SAARC nations.
The company has so far received orders for building 18 ships from European buyers. 

Business

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## Fasih Khan

Stealth_fighter said:


> even in here in the U.K British bangladeshi peoples donated a lot of money for the flood victims of pakistan.various charities like muslim aid,islamic relief,just help foundation and many others made charrity appeal in bengali tv channels.people donated generously and even i saw many people were crying in the donation hotline to c the poor condition after disaster..i remember one lady called in the studio,was crying n saying pls help,u could be there in such situation...Bengali community showed great sympathy for their pakistani brothers



*Jazakum Allah Kher to our Brothers & Sisters from a brotherly country, Bangladesh. May Allah Kareem Bless all those Pious souls who have shed tears and tried anything for the Victims or Prayed for them. Ameen. Regards from Pakistan.

Thanks for Sharing, Brother.*

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## yousaf goebbels

Imran Khan said:


> However, following the 9/11 attack on the World Trade Center and Pakistan's support for the US-led war on terrorism, the US has designated the populous Muslim nation as a major non-NATO ally - one of the few Muslim countries to be accorded the *privilege*


 
i think the word was actually disease and they mistyped it as privilege


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## Al-zakir

Trajectories of Pakistan and Bangladesh
By Khaled Ahmed
Published: May 1, 2011


Many thought Bangladesh (BD) broke away from Pakistan because it wanted to go in a different direction. But after its secular birth, it adopted the same trajectory as Pakistan. Like Pakistan, it was taken over by the generals. Even the names tallied. General Ziaur Rahman amended the 1972 Constitution of Sheikh Mujib and removed the word secular from it. The 5th Amendment introduced Islam as the guiding principle of the constitution.
Anti-India General Ershad (who was somewhat like General Yahya but who wrote bad poetry in English) went further with his 8th Amendment, (sic!) declaring Islam as the religion of the state. He dubbed the Awami League pro-India and kept it suppressed.
Ershad was finally pulled down. Then, like Zulfikar Bhuttos PPP, Mujibs Awami League entrenched itself in the political system as a liberal option that didnt hate India too much; General Ziaur Rahmans legacy was Bangladesh National Party (BNP), the right-wing lookalike of Pakistan Muslim League (PML).
The latest parallel is described in Understanding Bangladesh by S Mahmud Ali (Hurst & Company, 2010). Like General Musharraf in 1999, General Moeen tried to oust both the big parties dominating BDs bipartisan system in 2007. That year, Musharraf began to fail to keep Benazir and Nawaz Sharif out; for a more intelligent General Moeen it took just two years to realise he couldnt keep Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia out.
Both the armies thought the expelled leaders were corrupt. They were right to a large extent. In the case of Bangladesh  which was externally financed as a least developed country  the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and India encouraged its army to intervene. The OECD threat to the BD army was ouster from the lucrative UN peacekeeping chores. [BD sends the largest number of troops on UN assignments] (p.251).
General Moeen didnt seem to have Musharrafs ambition to take over and hang on. Electoral mechanisms were revamped, earlier follies shown up and corrected, and a relatively even playing field created for the restoration of elective governance. Like Musharraf, he was secular in outlook. He arrested people from both parties but included senior leaders of Jamaat-i-Islami too. [Musharraf, instead, allowed a clerical alliance, Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal, to win in NWFP.] General Moeen lifted emergency at the end of 2008; and, after elections in January 2009, liberal Awami League returned to rule, just like liberal PPP in Pakistan, in 2008.
Musharraf was helpless in the face of state-sponsored jihad through the madrassa network. Moeen had no such constraints. Jamaat-i-Islami was forced to change its constitution, acknowledge Bangladeshs 1971 war of independence  as opposed to its past insistence that this had been a civil war between factions within Pakistan  and change its name from Jamaat-i-Islami Bangladesh to Bangladesh Jamaat-i-Islami (p.254). He arrested Sheikh Hasina and Khaleda Zia together with the latters profligate sons, Tareque Rahman and Arafat Rahman.
There were hundreds of corruption cases against the two ladies but they collapsed as the BD armys will to press on with cleansing the system collapsed. Author Mahmud Ali says the reason was an activist judiciary and the challenge the army faced in 2008 in the Bay of Bengal. Myanmar sent ships owned by South Korean Daewoo and two state-owned Indian companies into the Bay of Bengal to survey Bangladeshs waters, but with drills.
Bangladesh talked to China for mediation, and talked to Seoul and sent in frigates (p.267). Earlier, India had escorted an Australian driller into Bangladeshs maritime economic zone. BD sent in its battleships. Indian vessels refused to leave. India invited BD for talks and contested the zone together with Burma. BD and Pakistan muddle along on a similar path even after separating.
Published in The Express Tribune, May 1st, 2011.

Trajectories of Pakistan and Bangladesh  The Express Tribune

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## Tiki Tam Tam

AL Zakira.

If the trajectories are same and you post this news, could you tell us why is the delay in reunification?

Quite silly to go the same path and yet not reunite!!


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## monitor

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> AL Zakira.
> 
> If the trajectories are same and you post this news, could you tell us why is the delay in reunification?
> 
> Quite silly to go the same path and yet not reunite!!



one thing i am seeing you are calling Zakir by Zakia is it intentional or just slip of pen ? from a former member of arm forces we cannot expect it .

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## ProsperBD

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> AL Zakira.
> 
> If the trajectories are same and you post this news, could you tell us why is the delay in reunification?
> 
> Quite silly to go the same path and yet not reunite!!


This guy had something against Bangladeshis, he was truly an idiot but what do you expect this is what you expect from trolls.
He is a 'military proffesional' Haha that is what makes me laugh, I cannot believe such a foolish man had even joined this forum and became a
'military proffesional'.

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## Naveed Ritom

Imran Khan said:


> you can see this thread start from BD PAK releations and one of your guy move it on BD vs PAK
> 
> its not good


 one may be exception,but not all the bangladeshi.in present circumstence bd and pakistan need to become more close 
.we were and we are brothers,our enemy is same who wants nothing but the termination of bangladesh and pakistan.so we need 
to co-operate together and bring the 64 upon india and prove them again that when we work together they are nothin just front of us.pakistan-bd
frienship and brotherhood can only protect us , save our innocent people.

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## Tiki Tam Tam

monitor said:


> one thing i am seeing you are calling Zakir by Zakia is it intentional or just slip of pen ? from a former member of arm forces we cannot expect it .


 


ProsperBD said:


> This guy had something against Bangladeshis, he was truly an idiot but what do you expect this is what you expect from trolls.
> He is a 'military proffesional' Haha that is what makes me laugh, I cannot believe such a foolish man had even joined this forum and became a
> 'military proffesional'.



Very often, say what you will, a knave is only a fool.

Prosper,

Before you call anyone an idiot, look within.

You still require a kilo to be classified a half wit!

I concede you cannot fathom what I write.

A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough. 

You have proved it!


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## Naveed Ritom

Tiki Tam Tam said:


> Very often, say what you will, a knave is only a fool.
> 
> Prosper,
> 
> Before you call anyone an idiot, look within.
> 
> You still require a kilo to be classified a half wit!
> 
> I concede you cannot fathom what I write.
> 
> A quick temper will make a fool of you soon enough.
> 
> You have proved it!


 dont think yourself oversmirt !! a fool never say he's a fool and a thief never say he is a thief ,but he say others are fool and thief only he's right.
your writing has proved that again,so i would like to say what has monitor ,prosperbd said is absolutely right about you


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## shbaziz

Assalaam O Allaikum.. I hope you are all fine.

I looked at this thread and thumbs up for the one who created it and thumbs down for those who considered it a debate or comparison session. There are certain things I'd want to say. To say that India is not interested in bullying and Bangladesh should not worry about is not a correct proposition. Why would anyone consider weapons if one can suck your blood through "business". I went to Dhaka this July for two months, it was my first visit there. When i was coming back, I had an excellent discussion with a Bangladeshi businessman at Dhaka airport. I still remember the anger in his words when he said, "Every F****** policy of Bangladesh comes from India". My friend the world has changed and its no more required to actually invade a country to plunder resources. You only have to scare them and have "business" deals done. My friend told me that Bangladesh automobile industry is almost zero and they have to import everything from India and other countries.. as long as such things are there, why would India attack BD.For an independent Foreign and Finance policy, you got to be strong. 

P.S. I d remember my visit to Bangladesh as a pleasant time. I was a bit reluctant at first keeping in mind the history. But I was always greeted as a Pakistani. I interacted only a few Bangladeshis and always I had a pleasant surprize. A few shopkeeper, a sales girl at a garments store, a few cigarette seller some Bangladeshi colleagues and a few others. and a boy in a Garments market who told me, "When there is a cricket match, I bet on Pakistan". LOL. Sorry for talking irrelevant.

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## kobiraaz

shbaziz said:


> Assalaam O Allaikum.. I hope you are all fine.
> 
> I looked at this thread and thumbs up for the one who created it and thumbs down for those who considered it a debate or comparison session. There are certain things I'd want to say. To say that India is not interested in bullying and Bangladesh should not worry about is not a correct proposition. Why would anyone consider weapons if one can suck your blood through "business". I went to Dhaka this July for two months, it was my first visit there. When i was coming back, I had an excellent discussion with a Bangladeshi businessman at Dhaka airport. I still remember the anger in his words when he said, "Every F****** policy of Bangladesh comes from India". My friend the world has changed and its no more required to actually invade a country to plunder resources. You only have to scare them and have "business" deals done. My friend told me that Bangladesh automobile industry is almost zero and they have to import everything from India and other countries.. as long as such things are there, why would India attack BD.For an independent Foreign and Finance policy, you got to be strong.
> 
> P.S. I d remember my visit to Bangladesh as a pleasant time. I was a bit reluctant at first keeping in mind the history. But I was always greeted as a Pakistani. I interacted only a few Bangladeshis and always I had a pleasant surprize. A few shopkeeper, a sales girl at a garments store, a few cigarette seller some Bangladeshi colleagues and a few others. and a boy in a Garments market who told me, "When there is a cricket match, I bet on Pakistan". LOL. Sorry for talking irrelevant.



exactly...... ..................


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## Al-zakir

Khaleda Zia, Ambassador Qureshi talk Dhaka-Islamabad relations

'Pakistan Times' Monitoring Desk

DHAKA (Bangladesh): Newly appointed Pakistan High Commissioner in Dhaka Ashraf Qureshi made a courtesy call on Bangladesh Nationalist Party chairperson Khaleda Zia on Saturday evening, where they discussed the entire gamut of bilateral relations and the political situation in Pakistan. 

After the meeting at the BNP Chairperson&#8217;s Gulshan office, Qureshi told reporters that it was his first meeting with opposition leader Khaleda Zia. 

He said their discussion centred on the bilateral relations between Pakistan and Bangladesh. The meeting lasted about an hour from 8 pm. 

He further said that as the BNP Chairperson was keen to know about the prevailing political and security situation in Pakistan, he briefed her in detail on each of these issues. 

Pressed for his opinion on the issue of the trial of war criminals, which might have repercussions for Pakistani individuals, he said it was not the place for him to give his opinion, as it was basically just a courtesy call. 

BNP vice-chairman Shamsher Mobin Chowdhury, and Chairperson&#8217;s advisers Reaz Rahman and Sabihuddin Ahmed were also present at the meeting.

Khaleda Zia, Ambassador Qureshi talk Dhaka-Islamabad relations

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## shbaziz

Friends from Bangladesh. Your opinion needed on this thread. Sorry for irrelevance. 

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-history-strategy/164530-bangladesh-war-hero-book.html#post2683551


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## AsianLion

*Pakistan & Bangladesh Relations*

*Publisher and Managing Editor IKRAM SEHGAL delivered a lecture to the students of the Department of History, Karachi University, on Thursday 3 April 2003. This is the transcript of the lecture.*

*T*hank you for inviting me to address the students of the Department of History. I feel that I am not so qualified educationally or intellectually as the gentlemen today who preceded me but I think that perhaps emotionally I am the most qualified person to talk to this audience because my father came from Sialkot and my mother came from Bogra, in 1971 West and East Pakistan. So whatever Pakistan was, the finest experiment of nationhood of its kind, was lost to us in 1971.

The reasons for being together in one way or the other are (1) geopolitical reasons (2) economic reasons and (3) emotional reasons. I will talk about emotional reasons at the last, even though I personally consider that as being the most important.

Mr. Muktadir said some very nice things about humanity. But we live in a bad world, where unfortunately people do not consider themselves as equals, some people think they are more superior than others and we are unfortunately at the bottom of the rung mainly because we are South Asians and then we are Muslims. So we have to come together like living together in a Housing Society, even a Katchi Abadi. When there are two families who are living in a mass of unknown beings and desire to have security, a sense of belonging where they can converse with each other, work with each other and can interact with each other, that glue binds them together in association. And that was the primary reason for 1971 and 1947, because what was envisioned in 1947 was not put into practice and we had to face 1971. Learned speakers before me have already gone into the causes and consequences, there is no need for me to repeat them.

The geo-political reasons are many. In South Asia there are three major Muslim communities, largest being in India, the second biggest in Bangladesh and the third biggest in Pakistan. A strong Pakistan and a strong Bangladesh is the security for the largest community of Muslims who live in India. It is unfortunate but that sense of security comes from the fact that we are there together and the people will understand that as long as the two strong nations are there that they will be secure. The day India finds us weak they will deal with us like they have dealt with Bhutan, Maldives and to an extent, Sri Lanka and of course, Nepal. In the geo-political context again, we have much to offer to Asia. If India understands this basic fact, South Asia can be an economical and political Superpower.

But let me go on the economic reasons. I was helped by many people in writing my Concept Paper, you copy from one person its called plagiarism or cheating but if you copy from many, its called research. During my research I found out some very important things. The two big deltas throughout history i.e. the Brahmaputra which flows down and went into Bangladesh, and then far apart, the Indus. A Jesuit priest 500 years ago said, “If you think that Egypt was rich, come to Bengal and see the richness of Bengal. They have enough rice to feed the entire sub-continent and they have enough sugar to feed half of the known world; their textile is of such quality that the Portuguese, the Spanish and other people fight each other to get them. They also have “saltpetre” unquote.

Today, thank God Pakistan can feed and clothe itself and thank God also that today Bangladesh has come up very nicely economically. But look at the complementary economies of our two countries. We do not make jute but Bangladesh makes jute, so their jute goods can come to Pakistan; we don’t have tea but they have it, so tea could come here; they do not have cotton but we have it and cotton could go there and our textiles could go there if we take the basic quantities of commodities, the pressure of export diminishes. There are many other items that could be exchanged but I am just saying that these are the major items. If you have the complementary economy there are a lot of items to export all the time.

Look at what Mr. Muktadir (from Bangladesh) brought out today. He brought out the fact that what are our exports today and what are our imports today from Bangladesh? Less than 1%. We are capable of taking this upto 40%. 40%! The opportunities were there as were the reasons but the reasons perished at the feet of bureaucracy. Bureaucracy obviously did not want it, they wanted to look towards Europe and to deve-

lop markets there but they did not realize the market that we had, the whole market that we lost.

And last of all, the emotional reasons. My parents, of course are buried here in Karachi but a lot of people do not know that Gen Zia Ur Rehman’s parents are also buried in Sakhi Hassan Graveyard in Karachi. In 1949 my father was posted to East Pakistan because his wife was Bengali. He was sent to raise a 2nd Battalion of the East Bengal Regiment, I was three years old at that time and grew up with the East Bengal Regiment. Zia ur Rehman was a junior officer working with my father.

I got into a lot of trouble in 1971. Unfortunately, I was the first one to escape from India as a POW from 32 officers and a thousand other ranks. This was before the war and India had not come into the war. When I escaped and came back to then East Pakistan in August 1971 I was a hero of sorts for some time until I said “Sir, what you are doing here is wrong” and because I said that I went from hero to zero. My career (and nearly my life) went down the drain. My father was asked by Yahya Khan to talk to me about my utterances. When my father came to talk I said to him “This is beyond you and me. Your mother was a Punjabi and my mother is a Bengali, and that I am afraid epitomizes the differences of 1971.” But that is not to say that solutions were not there because they were very much there. And I want to tell you about that solution, the solution is not to think about one Pakistan. The solution is to think about two countries, two very strong countries. Why have Visas between the two countries? What is the need to have Visas between the two countries? Of course, there are no reasons. Secondly, why have tariffs between the two countries? If a packet of tea costs Taka 10 in Bangladesh it should cost Rupees 10 in Pakistan also. If there is no tariff Bangladeshi goods will sell like hot cakes in Pakistan and our goods will sell like hot cakes there. Just two simple things, no Visas and no tariffs. There is no need to have such things in our two countries. So there should not be any Visas or tariffs between the two countries. The heavens will not fall on us if this is done. On the one hand you have these people claiming “Hum Pakistan Bana Kay Rahaingay” and yet we are not ready to give Visas! Forget the visas and forget the tariffs.

Let me also tell you that once that India actually protested to Bangladesh when Pakistan and India were playing a hockey match in Dhaka Stadium and almost all people were supporting Pakistan. India protested officially to the Government of Bangladesh. All this comes from the heart, it is not organized and it is not orchestrated. I know that the same kind of love and affection you will give Mr. Muktadir was the same given to Dr. Moonis Ahmer in Bangladesh. I tell you that you have to take away the barrier, the artificial barrier because many people say that this thing cannot be done or that thing cannot be done, but I say sorry, there is nothing that cannot be done.

There are two nations, there is no doubt about it, Pakistan and Bangladesh but we are one people. Importantly in South Asia we are one people. Where is the future? The future is that what you carry in your hearts, take that love to the people of Bangladesh and see what they carry for us. There should be more exchanges between us, more cultural exchanges, more student exchanges, more exchanges at all the levels and in all the fields because that is what will get us together. Official delegations will not get us together, they just go down to Sonargaon (in Dhaka) or the Sheraton (in Karachi) and have lunch or dinner. Lunches and dinners are a good thing but that is not enough by far. The fact of the matter is that what is your heart that can carry you along, carry you together beyond friendship.

I will be 57 years old in July God willing and I know that in my lifetime I may continue to see two countries but they will come together as one nation.

Thank you.

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## Saiful Islam

AsianUnion said:


> *Pakistan & Bangladesh Relations*
> 
> *Publisher and Managing Editor IKRAM SEHGAL delivered a lecture to the students of the Department of History, Karachi University, on Thursday 3 April 2003. This is the transcript of the lecture.*
> 
> *T*hank you for inviting me to address the students of the Department of History. I feel that I am not so qualified educationally or intellectually as the gentlemen today who preceded me but I think that perhaps emotionally I am the most qualified person to talk to this audience because my father came from Sialkot and my mother came from Bogra, in 1971 West and East Pakistan. So whatever Pakistan was, the finest experiment of nationhood of its kind, was lost to us in 1971.
> 
> The reasons for being together in one way or the other are (1) geopolitical reasons (2) economic reasons and (3) emotional reasons. I will talk about emotional reasons at the last, even though I personally consider that as being the most important.
> 
> Mr. Muktadir said some very nice things about humanity. But we live in a bad world, where unfortunately people do not consider themselves as equals, some people think they are more superior than others and we are unfortunately at the bottom of the rung mainly because we are South Asians and then we are Muslims. So we have to come together like living together in a Housing Society, even a Katchi Abadi. When there are two families who are living in a mass of unknown beings and desire to have security, a sense of belonging where they can converse with each other, work with each other and can interact with each other, that glue binds them together in association. And that was the primary reason for 1971 and 1947, because what was envisioned in 1947 was not put into practice and we had to face 1971. Learned speakers before me have already gone into the causes and consequences, there is no need for me to repeat them.
> 
> The geo-political reasons are many. In South Asia there are three major Muslim communities, largest being in India, the second biggest in Bangladesh and the third biggest in Pakistan. A strong Pakistan and a strong Bangladesh is the security for the largest community of Muslims who live in India. It is unfortunate but that sense of security comes from the fact that we are there together and the people will understand that as long as the two strong nations are there that they will be secure. The day India finds us weak they will deal with us like they have dealt with Bhutan, Maldives and to an extent, Sri Lanka and of course, Nepal. In the geo-political context again, we have much to offer to Asia. If India understands this basic fact, South Asia can be an economical and political Superpower.
> 
> But let me go on the economic reasons. I was helped by many people in writing my Concept Paper, you copy from one person its called plagiarism or cheating but if you copy from many, its called research. During my research I found out some very important things. The two big deltas throughout history i.e. the Brahmaputra which flows down and went into Bangladesh, and then far apart, the Indus. A Jesuit priest 500 years ago said, “If you think that Egypt was rich, come to Bengal and see the richness of Bengal. They have enough rice to feed the entire sub-continent and they have enough sugar to feed half of the known world; their textile is of such quality that the Portuguese, the Spanish and other people fight each other to get them. They also have “saltpetre” unquote.
> 
> Today, thank God Pakistan can feed and clothe itself and thank God also that today Bangladesh has come up very nicely economically. But look at the complementary economies of our two countries. We do not make jute but Bangladesh makes jute, so their jute goods can come to Pakistan; we don’t have tea but they have it, so tea could come here; they do not have cotton but we have it and cotton could go there and our textiles could go there if we take the basic quantities of commodities, the pressure of export diminishes. There are many other items that could be exchanged but I am just saying that these are the major items. If you have the complementary economy there are a lot of items to export all the time.
> 
> Look at what Mr. Muktadir (from Bangladesh) brought out today. He brought out the fact that what are our exports today and what are our imports today from Bangladesh? Less than 1%. We are capable of taking this upto 40%. 40%! The opportunities were there as were the reasons but the reasons perished at the feet of bureaucracy. Bureaucracy obviously did not want it, they wanted to look towards Europe and to deve-
> 
> lop markets there but they did not realize the market that we had, the whole market that we lost.
> 
> And last of all, the emotional reasons. My parents, of course are buried here in Karachi but a lot of people do not know that Gen Zia Ur Rehman’s parents are also buried in Sakhi Hassan Graveyard in Karachi. In 1949 my father was posted to East Pakistan because his wife was Bengali. He was sent to raise a 2nd Battalion of the East Bengal Regiment, I was three years old at that time and grew up with the East Bengal Regiment. Zia ur Rehman was a junior officer working with my father.
> 
> I got into a lot of trouble in 1971. Unfortunately, I was the first one to escape from India as a POW from 32 officers and a thousand other ranks. This was before the war and India had not come into the war. When I escaped and came back to then East Pakistan in August 1971 I was a hero of sorts for some time until I said “Sir, what you are doing here is wrong” and because I said that I went from hero to zero. My career (and nearly my life) went down the drain. My father was asked by Yahya Khan to talk to me about my utterances. When my father came to talk I said to him “This is beyond you and me. Your mother was a Punjabi and my mother is a Bengali, and that I am afraid epitomizes the differences of 1971.” But that is not to say that solutions were not there because they were very much there. And I want to tell you about that solution, the solution is not to think about one Pakistan. The solution is to think about two countries, two very strong countries. Why have Visas between the two countries? What is the need to have Visas between the two countries? Of course, there are no reasons. Secondly, why have tariffs between the two countries? If a packet of tea costs Taka 10 in Bangladesh it should cost Rupees 10 in Pakistan also. If there is no tariff Bangladeshi goods will sell like hot cakes in Pakistan and our goods will sell like hot cakes there. Just two simple things, no Visas and no tariffs. There is no need to have such things in our two countries. So there should not be any Visas or tariffs between the two countries. The heavens will not fall on us if this is done. On the one hand you have these people claiming “Hum Pakistan Bana Kay Rahaingay” and yet we are not ready to give Visas! Forget the visas and forget the tariffs.
> 
> Let me also tell you that once that India actually protested to Bangladesh when Pakistan and India were playing a hockey match in Dhaka Stadium and almost all people were supporting Pakistan. India protested officially to the Government of Bangladesh. All this comes from the heart, it is not organized and it is not orchestrated. I know that the same kind of love and affection you will give Mr. Muktadir was the same given to Dr. Moonis Ahmer in Bangladesh. I tell you that you have to take away the barrier, the artificial barrier because many people say that this thing cannot be done or that thing cannot be done, but I say sorry, there is nothing that cannot be done.
> 
> There are two nations, there is no doubt about it, Pakistan and Bangladesh but we are one people. Importantly in South Asia we are one people. Where is the future? The future is that what you carry in your hearts, take that love to the people of Bangladesh and see what they carry for us. There should be more exchanges between us, more cultural exchanges, more student exchanges, more exchanges at all the levels and in all the fields because that is what will get us together. Official delegations will not get us together, they just go down to Sonargaon (in Dhaka) or the Sheraton (in Karachi) and have lunch or dinner. Lunches and dinners are a good thing but that is not enough by far. The fact of the matter is that what is your heart that can carry you along, carry you together beyond friendship.
> 
> I will be 57 years old in July God willing and I know that in my lifetime I may continue to see two countries but they will come together as one nation.
> 
> Thank you.






Beautiful story. My Grandad was part of the East Pakistan Rifles but unfortunately he lost a leg in a railway accident and had to wear a plastic leg which we still have now in my home village.

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## khair_ctg

AsianUnion said:


> *Pakistan & Bangladesh Relations*
> 
> *Publisher and Managing Editor IKRAM SEHGAL delivered a lecture to the students of the Department of History, Karachi University, on Thursday 3 April 2003. This is the transcript of the lecture.*
> 
> *T*hank you for inviting me to address the students of the Department of History. I feel that I am not so qualified educationally or intellectually as the gentlemen today who preceded me but I think that perhaps emotionally I am the most qualified person to talk to this audience because my father came from Sialkot and my mother came from Bogra, in 1971 West and East Pakistan. So whatever Pakistan was, the finest experiment of nationhood of its kind, was lost to us in 1971.
> 
> The reasons for being together in one way or the other are (1) geopolitical reasons (2) economic reasons and (3) emotional reasons. I will talk about emotional reasons at the last, even though I personally consider that as being the most important.
> 
> Mr. Muktadir said some very nice things about humanity. But we live in a bad world, where unfortunately people do not consider themselves as equals, some people think they are more superior than others and we are unfortunately at the bottom of the rung mainly because we are South Asians and then we are Muslims. So we have to come together like living together in a Housing Society, even a Katchi Abadi. When there are two families who are living in a mass of unknown beings and desire to have security, a sense of belonging where they can converse with each other, work with each other and can interact with each other, that glue binds them together in association. And that was the primary reason for 1971 and 1947, because what was envisioned in 1947 was not put into practice and we had to face 1971. Learned speakers before me have already gone into the causes and consequences, there is no need for me to repeat them.
> 
> The geo-political reasons are many. In South Asia there are three major Muslim communities, largest being in India, the second biggest in Bangladesh and the third biggest in Pakistan. A strong Pakistan and a strong Bangladesh is the security for the largest community of Muslims who live in India. It is unfortunate but that sense of security comes from the fact that we are there together and the people will understand that as long as the two strong nations are there that they will be secure. The day India finds us weak they will deal with us like they have dealt with Bhutan, Maldives and to an extent, Sri Lanka and of course, Nepal. In the geo-political context again, we have much to offer to Asia. If India understands this basic fact, South Asia can be an economical and political Superpower.
> 
> But let me go on the economic reasons. I was helped by many people in writing my Concept Paper, you copy from one person its called plagiarism or cheating but if you copy from many, its called research. During my research I found out some very important things. The two big deltas throughout history i.e. the Brahmaputra which flows down and went into Bangladesh, and then far apart, the Indus. A Jesuit priest 500 years ago said, “If you think that Egypt was rich, come to Bengal and see the richness of Bengal. They have enough rice to feed the entire sub-continent and they have enough sugar to feed half of the known world; their textile is of such quality that the Portuguese, the Spanish and other people fight each other to get them. They also have “saltpetre” unquote.
> 
> Today, thank God Pakistan can feed and clothe itself and thank God also that today Bangladesh has come up very nicely economically. But look at the complementary economies of our two countries. We do not make jute but Bangladesh makes jute, so their jute goods can come to Pakistan; we don’t have tea but they have it, so tea could come here; they do not have cotton but we have it and cotton could go there and our textiles could go there if we take the basic quantities of commodities, the pressure of export diminishes. There are many other items that could be exchanged but I am just saying that these are the major items. If you have the complementary economy there are a lot of items to export all the time.
> 
> Look at what Mr. Muktadir (from Bangladesh) brought out today. He brought out the fact that what are our exports today and what are our imports today from Bangladesh? Less than 1%. We are capable of taking this upto 40%. 40%! The opportunities were there as were the reasons but the reasons perished at the feet of bureaucracy. Bureaucracy obviously did not want it, they wanted to look towards Europe and to deve-
> 
> lop markets there but they did not realize the market that we had, the whole market that we lost.
> 
> And last of all, the emotional reasons. My parents, of course are buried here in Karachi but a lot of people do not know that Gen Zia Ur Rehman’s parents are also buried in Sakhi Hassan Graveyard in Karachi. In 1949 my father was posted to East Pakistan because his wife was Bengali. He was sent to raise a 2nd Battalion of the East Bengal Regiment, I was three years old at that time and grew up with the East Bengal Regiment. Zia ur Rehman was a junior officer working with my father.
> 
> I got into a lot of trouble in 1971. Unfortunately, I was the first one to escape from India as a POW from 32 officers and a thousand other ranks. This was before the war and India had not come into the war. When I escaped and came back to then East Pakistan in August 1971 I was a hero of sorts for some time until I said “Sir, what you are doing here is wrong” and because I said that I went from hero to zero. My career (and nearly my life) went down the drain. My father was asked by Yahya Khan to talk to me about my utterances. When my father came to talk I said to him “This is beyond you and me. Your mother was a Punjabi and my mother is a Bengali, and that I am afraid epitomizes the differences of 1971.” But that is not to say that solutions were not there because they were very much there. And I want to tell you about that solution, the solution is not to think about one Pakistan. The solution is to think about two countries, two very strong countries. Why have Visas between the two countries? What is the need to have Visas between the two countries? Of course, there are no reasons. Secondly, why have tariffs between the two countries? If a packet of tea costs Taka 10 in Bangladesh it should cost Rupees 10 in Pakistan also. If there is no tariff Bangladeshi goods will sell like hot cakes in Pakistan and our goods will sell like hot cakes there. Just two simple things, no Visas and no tariffs. There is no need to have such things in our two countries. So there should not be any Visas or tariffs between the two countries. The heavens will not fall on us if this is done. On the one hand you have these people claiming “Hum Pakistan Bana Kay Rahaingay” and yet we are not ready to give Visas! Forget the visas and forget the tariffs.
> 
> Let me also tell you that once that India actually protested to Bangladesh when Pakistan and India were playing a hockey match in Dhaka Stadium and almost all people were supporting Pakistan. India protested officially to the Government of Bangladesh. All this comes from the heart, it is not organized and it is not orchestrated. I know that the same kind of love and affection you will give Mr. Muktadir was the same given to Dr. Moonis Ahmer in Bangladesh. I tell you that you have to take away the barrier, the artificial barrier because many people say that this thing cannot be done or that thing cannot be done, but I say sorry, there is nothing that cannot be done.
> 
> There are two nations, there is no doubt about it, Pakistan and Bangladesh but we are one people. Importantly in South Asia we are one people. Where is the future? The future is that what you carry in your hearts, take that love to the people of Bangladesh and see what they carry for us. There should be more exchanges between us, more cultural exchanges, more student exchanges, more exchanges at all the levels and in all the fields because that is what will get us together. Official delegations will not get us together, they just go down to Sonargaon (in Dhaka) or the Sheraton (in Karachi) and have lunch or dinner. Lunches and dinners are a good thing but that is not enough by far. The fact of the matter is that what is your heart that can carry you along, carry you together beyond friendship.
> 
> I will be 57 years old in July God willing and I know that in my lifetime I may continue to see two countries but they will come together as one nation.
> 
> Thank you.


Very nice. Thanks for posting.

@Armstrong @kalu_miah @Al-zakir @Md Akmal @Syed Naved @Areesh @kobiraaz

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## Armstrong

khair_ctg said:


> Very nice. Thanks for posting.
> 
> @Armstrong @kalu_miah @Al-zakir @Md Akmal @Syed Naved @Areesh @kobiraaz


 
Yes I've read it Bro....my Uncle was born in Dhaka & my Grandpa served there as a civilian Civil Engineer working for the Army during the '60s - But I don't have any romanticized notions of what a United Pakistan was or what the present Pakistan-Bangladesh relations can be because right now Bangladesh is pretty much irrelevant to Pakistan as is Pakistan irrelevant to Bangladesh !


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## Areesh

Saiful Islam said:


> Beautiful story. My Grandad was part of the East Pakistan Rifles but unfortunately he lost a leg in a railway accident and had to wear a plastic leg which we still have now in my home village.



I have a question. Do you guys remember and honor those Bengali guys who laid down their lives in 1965 war for the defense of united Pakistan? Like one of my favorite Sq Ldr Alauddin Ahmad or some others.


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## Saiful Islam

Areesh said:


> I have a question. Do you guys remember and honor those Bengali guys who laid down their lives in 1965 war for the defense of united Pakistan? Like one of my favorite Sq Ldr Alauddin Ahmad or some others.




1965 was a proud moment for us. I and other Bengalis I know personally are very proud that we were a contributing factor to that war.

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## khair_ctg

Areesh said:


> I have a question. Do you guys remember and honor those Bengali guys who laid down their lives in 1965 war for the defense of united Pakistan? Like one of my favorite Sq Ldr Alauddin Ahmad or some others.


i read about Alauddin Ahmad before - one of the most decorated Bengali pilots of united PAF. he was from Dhaka. 1965 war was definitely a proud episode, and it should be one for any Bangladeshi. not surprisingly you wouldn't find much about it in govt-issue school books in BD (although i might be wrong).

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## Areesh

khair_ctg said:


> i read about Alauddin Ahmad before - one of the most decorated Bengali pilots of united PAF. he was from Dhaka. 1965 war was definitely a proud episode, and it should be one for any Bangladeshi. not surprisingly you wouldn't find much about it in govt-issue school books in BD (although i might be wrong).



Yup that's what I was saying. Are the BD children aware of such heroes. they should be informed about heroes like Alauddin Ahmad. He is our shared hero after all.

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## AsianLion

Thanks Bangladeshi friends....keeping reading the happy moments of Pak-Bangla:

Reposting, We need to include Afghanistan and Central Asian Republics in the Muslim South-Central Asian Regional power:

*Pakistan & Bangladesh Relations*

Publisher and Managing Editor IKRAM SEHGAL delivered a lecture to the students of the Department of History, Karachi University, on Thursday 3 April 2003. This is the transcript of the lecture.

*T*hank you for inviting me to address the students of the Department of History. I feel that I am not so qualified educationally or intellectually as the gentlemen today who preceded me but I think that perhaps emotionally I am the most qualified person to talk to this audience because my father came from Sialkot and my mother came from Bogra, in 1971 West and East Pakistan. So whatever Pakistan was, the finest experiment of nationhood of its kind, was lost to us in 1971.

The reasons for being together in one way or the other are *(1) geopolitical reasons (2) economic reasons and (3) emotional reasons.* I will talk about emotional reasons at the last, even though I personally consider that as being the most important.

Mr. Muktadir said some very nice things about humanity. But we live in a bad world, where unfortunately people do not consider themselves as equals, some people think they are more superior than others and we are unfortunately at the bottom of the rung mainly because we are South Asians and then we are Muslims. So we have to come together like living together in a Housing Society, even a Katchi Abadi. When there are two families who are living in a mass of unknown beings and desire to have security, a sense of belonging where they can converse with each other, work with each other and can interact with each other, that glue binds them together in association. And that was the primary reason for 1971 and 1947, because what was envisioned in 1947 was not put into practice and we had to face 1971. Learned speakers before me have already gone into the causes and consequences, there is no need for me to repeat them.

The geo-political reasons are many. In South Asia there are three major Muslim communities, largest being in India, the second biggest in Bangladesh and the third biggest in Pakistan. A strong Pakistan and a strong Bangladesh is the security for the largest community of Muslims who live in India. It is unfortunate but that sense of security comes from the fact that we are there together and the people will understand that as long as the two strong nations are there that they will be secure. The day India finds us weak they will deal with us like they have dealt with Bhutan, Maldives and to an extent, Sri Lanka and of course, Nepal. In the geo-political context again, we have much to offer to Asia. If India understands this basic fact, South Asia can be an economical and political Superpower.

But let me go on the economic reasons. I was helped by many people in writing my Concept Paper, you copy from one person its called plagiarism or cheating but if you copy from many, its called research. During my research I found out some very important things. The two big deltas throughout history i.e. the Brahmaputra which flows down and went into Bangladesh, and then far apart, the Indus. A Jesuit priest 500 years ago said, “If you think that Egypt was rich, come to Bengal and see the richness of Bengal. They have enough rice to feed the entire sub-continent and they have enough sugar to feed half of the known world; their textile is of such quality that the Portuguese, the Spanish and other people fight each other to get them. They also have “saltpetre” unquote.

Today, thank God Pakistan can feed and clothe itself and thank God also that today Bangladesh has come up very nicely economically. But look at the complementary economies of our two countries. We do not make jute but Bangladesh makes jute, so their jute goods can come to Pakistan; we don’t have tea but they have it, so tea could come here; they do not have cotton but we have it and cotton could go there and our textiles could go there if we take the basic quantities of commodities, the pressure of export diminishes. There are many other items that could be exchanged but I am just saying that these are the major items. If you have the complementary economy there are a lot of items to export all the time.

Look at what Mr. Muktadir (from Bangladesh) brought out today. He brought out the fact that what are our exports today and what are our imports today from Bangladesh? Less than 1%. We are capable of taking this upto 40%. 40%! The opportunities were there as were the reasons but the reasons perished at the feet of bureaucracy. Bureaucracy obviously did not want it, they wanted to look towards Europe and to deve-lop markets there but they did not realize the market that we had, the whole market that we lost.

And last of all, the *emotional reasons*. My parents, of course are buried here in Karachi but a lot of people do not know that Gen Zia Ur Rehman’s parents are also buried in Sakhi Hassan Graveyard in Karachi. In 1949 my father was posted to East Pakistan because his wife was Bengali. He was sent to raise a 2nd Battalion of the East Bengal Regiment, I was three years old at that time and grew up with the East Bengal Regiment. Zia ur Rehman was a junior officer working with my father.

I got into a lot of trouble in 1971. Unfortunately, I was the first one to escape from India as a POW from 32 officers and a thousand other ranks. This was before the war and India had not come into the war. When I escaped and came back to then East Pakistan in August 1971 I was a hero of sorts for some time until I said “Sir, what you are doing here is wrong” and because I said that I went from hero to zero. My career (and nearly my life) went down the drain. My father was asked by Yahya Khan to talk to me about my utterances. When my father came to talk I said to him “This is beyond you and me. Your mother was a Punjabi and my mother is a Bengali, and that I am afraid epitomizes the differences of 1971.” But that is not to say that solutions were not there because they were very much there. And I want to tell you about that solution, the solution is not to think about one Pakistan. The solution is to think about two countries, two very strong countries. Why have Visas between the two countries? What is the need to have Visas between the two countries? Of course, there are no reasons. Secondly, why have tariffs between the two countries? If a packet of tea costs Taka 10 in Bangladesh it should cost Rupees 10 in Pakistan also. If there is no tariff Bangladeshi goods will sell like hot cakes in Pakistan and our goods will sell like hot cakes there. Just two simple things, no Visas and no tariffs. There is no need to have such things in our two countries. So there should not be any Visas or tariffs between the two countries. The heavens will not fall on us if this is done. On the one hand you have these people claiming “Hum Pakistan Bana Kay Rahaingay” and yet we are not ready to give Visas! Forget the visas and forget the tariffs.

Let me also tell you that once that India actually protested to Bangladesh when Pakistan and India were playing a hockey match in Dhaka Stadium and almost all people were supporting Pakistan. India protested officially to the Government of Bangladesh. All this comes from the heart, it is not organized and it is not orchestrated. I know that the same kind of love and affection you will give Mr. Muktadir was the same given to Dr. Moonis Ahmer in Bangladesh. I tell you that you have to take away the barrier, the artificial barrier because many people say that this thing cannot be done or that thing cannot be done, but I say sorry, there is nothing that cannot be done.

There are two nations, there is no doubt about it, Pakistan and Bangladesh but we are one people. Importantly in South Asia we are one people. Where is the future? The future is that what you carry in your hearts, take that love to the people of Bangladesh and see what they carry for us. There should be more exchanges between us, more cultural exchanges, more student exchanges, more exchanges at all the levels and in all the fields because that is what will get us together. Official delegations will not get us together, they just go down to Sonargaon (in Dhaka) or the Sheraton (in Karachi) and have lunch or dinner. Lunches and dinners are a good thing but that is not enough by far. The fact of the matter is that what is your heart that can carry you along, carry you together beyond friendship.

I will be 57 years old in July God willing and I know that in my lifetime I may continue to see two countries but they will come together as one nation.

Thank you.

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## Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury

*"The geo-political reasons are many. In South Asia there are three major Muslim communities, largest being in India, the second biggest in Bangladesh and the third biggest in Pakistan."*

How can this be? Pakistan's population is some 25 to 30 million more than Bangladesh (according to official stats anyway) and it is virtually all Muslim whereas 10% of our country is Hindu.


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## Skallagrim

Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury said:


> *"The geo-political reasons are many. In South Asia there are three major Muslim communities, largest being in India, the second biggest in Bangladesh and the third biggest in Pakistan."*
> 
> How can this be? Pakistan's population is some 25 to 30 million more than Bangladesh (according to official stats anyway) and it is virtually all Muslim whereas 10% of our country is Hindu.



BD had had the bigger population until recently (say 20 years).


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## Syed Naved

Areesh said:


> I have a question. Do you guys remember and honor those Bengali guys who laid down their lives in 1965 war for the defense of united Pakistan? Like one of my favorite Sq Ldr Alauddin Ahmad or some others.


Yes,we did . We feel proud for them.It is the reason of popularity of Pakistan over India in Bangladesh also. Even Zia Ur Rehman ,M.M Alam were heroes from eastern side.



Areesh said:


> Yup that's what I was saying. Are the BD children aware of such heroes. they should be informed about heroes like Alauddin Ahmad. He is our shared hero after all.


We also know about Saiful Azam too. No matter what our present books say,but childrens who learned history from their grand father,grand mother or family we all are aware of this fact . And we need to show honor these share heroes.


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## AsianLion

Sadly Bangladeshi military is far far behind Pakistanis, in order to strength this, Bangladesh need a military to show it power house and reason for its existence, at the moment Bangladesh has zero role in world relations and geo strategy in terms of providing military support and military objectives!


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## Mage

AsianUnion said:


> Sadly Bangladeshi military is far far behind Pakistanis, in order to strength this, Bangladesh need a military to show it power house and reason for its existence, at the moment Bangladesh has zero role in world relations and geo strategy in terms of providing military support and military objectives!


That's fine for now. The focus should be on how to improve people's lives.

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