# Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter



## SBD-3

According to Russian military messenger, Nov. 18 reported that the Bangladesh Air Force Ziao Rahman recently in London at the '2011 International Fighter conference,' said China has ordered the country's 16 new F-7BGI light aircraft will be delivered beginning in 1012, but he did not disclose other details about the transaction information.

Analysts pointed out that these F-7BGI may be used to replace Bashar Meng Air Force Base (located near Dhaka Mon 21 Squadron equipped with the old-fashioned Chinese-made A-5C attack aircraft.

Meng said the Air Force Commander, F-7BGI China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group Company F-7-based research and development of new models, equipped with improved airborne equipment, including 'hand throttle lever' (ie 'hands on the bar 'control device, three multi-function cockpit displays and a HUD. The machine also has GPS system for navigation bomb throwing ability due to Bangladesh's orders, the legendary MiG-21 fighter production will continue to 2012(Free Paper: Free News, China News, U.S. News, Provides newspaper for all industries).

Bangladesh Air Force in 2006, equipped with 16 F-7BG fighters and four FT-7BG coach - fighters, while in the earlier 1989-2000 period, Meng also received the Air Force installed 16 F-7MB fighter and 8 FT-7MB trainer aircraft - fighters these fighters (now there are 23 still in service were single-seat fighter and trainer aircraft were currently eight equipment in the MENG 5th and 35th Air Force squadron.

Meng also said the Air Force commander, purchasing F-7BGI is the new generation of fighter aircraft in the Air Force before the transitional measures adopted in the next 13-15 years, 20-32 Meng Air Force plans to buy new fighter aircraft, and most promising candidate models, including the U.S. F-16 and Russia's MiG-29SMT. In addition, Sweden's JAS-39 and Russian Su-30 may also participate in the competition. It is reported that Meng Air Force also plans to purchase in 1999 of its 10 MiG-29 fighter jets to modernize modification, and will also purchase a new trainer to replace the existing fleet of old L-39. 
Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter - News

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## SBD-3



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## Imran Khan

at this damn time f-7? wow nice idea great going man

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## SpArK

Good decision. 

A great business move by China.

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## Imran Khan

SpArK said:


> Good decision.
> 
> A great business move by China.



really its surprised me how they convince BD for f-7?

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## SuperDoper

Imran Khan said:


> really its surprised me how they convince BD for f-7?


Using a loan from the Chinese, I guess? You know what I am saying?

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## SpArK

Imran Khan said:


> really its surprised me how they convince BD for f-7?

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## SBD-3

Imran Khan said:


> at this damn time f-7? wow nice idea great going man


The article says that these aircraft are "stop gap" aircrafts.


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## Imran Khan

SuperDoper said:


> Using a loan from the Chinese, I guess? You know what I am saying?



eheheeheh i know what you saying dear .


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## SuperDoper

SpArK said:


>


Rumor has it that star of david has crept up on the Chinese currency of 1 yuan denomination. You know what I am saying?


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## Imran Khan

hasnain0099 said:


> The article says that these aircraft are "stop gap" aircrafts.



but article say brand new sir jee gap can be filled with used too why new?


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## SuperDoper

Imran Khan said:


> eheheeheh i know what you saying dear .


No, you don't, I am not implying anything about Pakistan man. Pakistan is totally different story. You know what I am saying?


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## Imran Khan

SuperDoper said:


> No, you don't, I am not implying anything about Pakistan man. Pakistan is totally different story. You know what I am saying?



sorry you don't know what i said . pakistan has nothing to do with bd f-7 deal .


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## kobiraaz

Anyone know price per aircraft?


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## Imran Khan

Faarhan said:


> Anyone know price per aircraft?



between 7 to 9mn$


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## Imran Khan

in 2005 it was 15mn


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## SuperDoper

Imran Khan said:


> sorry you don't know what i said . pakistan has nothing to do with bd f-7 deal .


I never said pakistan has anything to do with it. You know what I am saying?


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## SBD-3

Imran Khan said:


> but article say brand new sir jee gap can be filled with used too why new?


Boss stop gap means that untill the more modern aircrafts make their way into BAF, these F-7s will be used to serve the purpose.

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## kobiraaz

Well, imran shaheb.... BD is evaluating SU30 F16 GRIPEN..... F7 was needed on emergency basis for new air base in coxbazar..... We are going for f7 is an old news..... Anyway as china stopped manufacturing it we thought jf-17 is the alternative. Now it seems like china designed new variants BGI after bangladesh's request.... BAF went for f-7 because it is saving money for next marketing.

---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

anyway these 48 f-7 will continue to serve our sky for many years.... China also uses them if i am not wrong.


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## Imran Khan

hasnain0099 said:


> Boss stop gap means that untill the more modern aircrafts make their way into BAF, these F-7s will be used to serve the purpose.



yep but they will stay in service 10-15 years dear as they are brand new .


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## JAT BALWAN

still opting mig21 variant....???

gr8 deal for Chinese, they are really good business men...


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## Imran Khan

Faarhan said:


> Well, imran shaheb.... BD is evaluating SU30 F16 GRIPEN..... F7 was needed on emergency basis for new air base in coxbazar..... We are going for f7 is an old news..... Anyway as china stopped manufacturing it we thought jf-17 is the alternative. Now it seems like china designed new variants BGI after bangladesh's request.... BAF went for f-7 because it is saving money for next marketing.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------
> 
> anyway these 48 f-7 will continue to serve our sky for many years.... China also uses them if i am not wrong.



i am not making fun yaar i am just wondering how can some one go in f-7 at 2011 . btw china i think has 400+ in service at this time .

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## punisher

Faarhan said:


> Well, imran shaheb.... BD is evaluating SU30 F16 GRIPEN..... F7 was needed on emergency basis for new air base in coxbazar..... We are going for f7 is an old news..... Anyway as china stopped manufacturing it we thought jf-17 is the alternative. Now it seems like china designed new variants BGI after bangladesh's request.... BAF went for f-7 because it is saving money for next marketing.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------
> 
> anyway these 48 f-7 will continue to serve our sky for many years.... China also uses them if i am not wrong.



May be modified version!!!!!!!!!


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## Imran Khan

i think 200 pakistani f-7s are ready to go out of service bd should take them as F-6


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## Karachihunk

Bangladesh has gone crazy, when the whole world is eyeing towards fifth generation aircraft they are going for F7  dont know if they are so dumb or Chinese are too smart.

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## punisher

Imran Khan said:


> i think 200 pakistani f-7s are ready to go out of service bd should take them as F-6



Give them 1+1 offer Bhai....


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## Imran Khan

punisher said:


> Give them 1+1 offer Bhai....



last time it was free yaar and also deliver them at home but BD lose them in floods .


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## SBD-3

Imran Khan said:


> yep but they will stay in service 10-15 years dear as they are brand new .


I know...but their current role may be MR (as they are said to modified with GPS for precision delivery) but may be allocated to airdefence squadrons when advanced MR platforms make their way in BAF

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## punisher

Imran Khan said:


> last time it was free yaar and also deliver them at home but BD lose them in floods .



As they want J-7, you should charge min atleast. Yesterday they are talking about SU-30,my god they didn't talked to acquire rafale........today BD decision


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## SBD-3

JAT BALWAN said:


> still opting mig21 variant....???
> 
> gr8 deal for Chinese, they are really good business men...





Karachihunk said:


> Bangladesh has gone crazy, when the whole world is eyeing towards fifth generation aircraft they are going for F7  dont know if they are so dumb or Chinese are too smart.


They are decently modified, my guess is that if PGM capability is added, so would have been the BVR......should i have to post the picture of J-7E prototype undergoing testing with JFT, J-10 and J-20?

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## Emmie

BD should go for Su-30, viper, Gripen, typhoon etc etc... J7, JFT, J10 etc etc are not up to the standards, many BD members believe the later part.

Anyway nice move by BAF, F7 are good.

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## Imran Khan

punisher said:


> As they want J-7, you should charge min atleast. Yesterday they are talking about SU-30,my god they didn't talked to acquire rafale........today BD decision



they are free to buy whatever they like man we should not have any issue .


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## SBD-3

CAC is not yet done with J-7.......they will keep developing it as long as they see market potential

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## Imran Khan

PGMs loaded


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## Bharthi

Everyone is taking Bangladesh for a ride


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## FNFAL

well one has to cut his cloth according to his needs...
I still dont get it..is why would bangladesh need more modern aircraft? Mymmar? Whats the strength of MAF?

and for heavens sake, don't say its going to be a deterrent for India...

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## SBD-3

FNFAL said:


> well one has to cut his cloth according to his needs...
> I still dont get it..is why would bangladesh need more modern aircraft? Mymmar? Whats the strength of MAF?
> 
> and for heavens sake, don't say its going to be a deterrent for India...


And what will be a deterrent against India?....F-22 perhaps......


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## punisher

hasnain0099 said:


> And what will be a deterrent against India?....F-22 perhaps......



Common buddy, India is not gonna attack BD, or not have a intension to occupy. If we wanted it, we can already done it in 1972. We don't need to Use IAF against BD.

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## Areesh

By the way how good are these F-7BGI's as compared PAF F-7PG. Anyone?


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## punisher

Areesh said:


> By the way how good are these F-7BGI's as compared PAF F-7PG. Anyone?



They will come with new color.

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## kobiraaz

Areesh said:


> By the way how good are these F-7BGI's as compared PAF F-7PG. Anyone?


the article says these are new generation aircrafts with Hotash, 3 monitor, Gps guiding... I don't have enough knowledge. professionals may shed some light here...

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## Dazzler

First F-7 variant with partial glass cockpit two mfds, better avionics, same ECM and chinese klj-6 falcon PD radar which is a copy of Grifo-7 radar in PAF F-7pgs though inferior in detection range but a good radar.


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## wild_fire1979

Imran Khan said:


> last time it was free yaar and also deliver them at home but BD lose them in floods .



Lol!!! Really or are you just trying to be funny?  How the F did they manage to do that?

Imagine if they buy SUs and they get washed away in Floods  Maybe BD should just invest in a Navy period


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## wild_fire1979

hasnain0099 said:


> And what will be a deterrent against India?....F-22 perhaps......



These days when you are up against major powers there are realistically two deterrents:

1. A super strong economy
2. Nukes

At this time BD has neither, though number one is acquirable with the right policies, trying to acquire the other will be equivalent to day dreaming


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## monitor

For a stop gap why we didn't try to get some second hand from China until we get our desire fighter  .though it is modified yet how much it will be relevant in front of 4++ and fifth generation fighter .


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## soul hacker

yar china se lene ki kia zaroorat hai hum se le lo BUY ONE GET 2 FREE


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## Pakistanisage

monitor said:


> For a stop gap why we didn't try to get some second hand from China until we get our desire fighter  .though it is modified yet how much it will be relevant in front of 4++ and fifth generation fighter .




Should have bought F7's from Pakistan......


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## crimemaster_gogo

Imran Khan said:


> between 7 to 9mn$



that's its price ??? yaha pe toh itne may sabji bhi nai milti aaj kal, 
.
. well for stop gap usage the fighter fits well as bangladesh airforce is already using them past many years, if they re looking for some good modern day aircraft at a cheap price then should negotiate for j10 series, if not then jf would be another stop gap measure, but would the chinese sell them ?


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## Avisheik

Well the F 7 will replace the A5s which by the way are really old. Furthermore, We use F 7s as interceptors not fighters, migs are our only fighters. But i still do not think its a good deal. If we wanted stop gap usage, we could have bought L-159ALCA or Yak-130. Buying this third generation warcraft is a waste of money.


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## Zabaniyah

banglarmanush said:


> Well the F 7 will replace the A5s which by the way are really old. Furthermore, We use F 7s as interceptors not fighters, migs are our only fighters. But i still do not think its a good deal. If we wanted stop gap usage, we could have bought L-159ALCA or Yak-130. Buying this third generation warcraft is a waste of money.



A-5s are for CAS operations. Not interceptors 

I am also a bit disappointed that we are still going for F-7s.


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## Avisheik

Bludgeon said:


> A-5s are for CAS operations. Not interceptors
> 
> I am also a bit disappointed that we are still going for F-7s.



I never mentioned that A5 are interceptors. 

According to imran bhai, they cost $9 a piece. So total we are spending around $144 million. It could have been used for around 11 ALCAs or something


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## TopCat

Well these are stop gap measure to fill the dire need of the airforce as we are getting short in number of planes. Even though sounds weired to buy F-7 in 2011 but what other aircraft we can get in such a short notice?

The plane we are evaluating righ now are SU-30, F-16, Mig-29CMT, Gripen which will become the core of our airforce. SU-30 most likely the winner.

To all Pakistanis who think they are in a position to donate plane, should better concentrate on paying off IMF loans and how they could avail the next installment and try to secure GSP+ facilities in Europe.
And to all Indians who think that they became superpower with SU-30 then they should stop sleeping as another superpower is in making in their eastern border with SU-30 as well.

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## Areesh

nabil_05 said:


> First F-7 variant with partial glass cockpit two mfds, better avionics, same ECM and chinese klj-6 falcon PD radar which is a copy of Grifo-7 radar in PAF F-7pgs though inferior in detection range but a good radar.


 
So they are still a bit inferior to F-7PG's.


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## Avisheik

Areesh said:


> So they are still a bit inferior to F-7PG's.



Only the radar


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## mjnaushad

These are tested with BVR missiles i think....


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## Zabaniyah

Both F-7PG and this F-7BGI are BVR capable, if I am not mistaken.


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## BLUE_ Pheonix

Bludgeon said:


> Both F-7PG and this F-7BGI are BVR capable, if I am not mistaken.


 even if they have bvr but they are too old to even for temporary fullfillment you guys should have opted for jf17


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## Zabaniyah

BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> even if they have bvr but they are too old to even for temporary fullfillment you guys should have opted for jf17



It's only meant to place the gap as we are going for more advanced fighters on 2021. Although, I'd agree it would have been better if we went for FC-1s. It's probably due to limited funds. 

Right now, BD is focusing on the navy. The most important arm for Bangladesh.


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## Avisheik

perfect said:


> *You pakistani* nowdays are working as good salesman(every time, jf-17 lalo jf-17 lalo).



The guy who made the comment is indian

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## perfect

banglarmanush said:


> The guy who made the comment is indian


 
any doubt?


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## BLUE_ Pheonix

perfect said:


> You pakistani nowdays are working as good salesman(every time, jf-17 lalo jf-17 lalo).


 i m indian and proud to be indian and i said jf17 since its fit there budget if not than i would have suggested gripens


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## Zabaniyah

BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> i m indian and proud to be indian and i said jf17 since its fit there budget if not than i would have suggested gripens



Why reply to that troll bro?


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## TopCat

Bludgeon said:


> It's only meant to place the gap as we are going for more advanced *fighters on 2021*. Although, I'd agree it would have been better if we went for FC-1s. It's probably due to limited funds.
> 
> Right now, BD is focusing on the navy. The most important arm for Bangladesh.


 
They will buy something on 2021 and evaluatiing now??? Is it english that has the problem or related to retard mind?


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## Avisheik

iajdani said:


> They will buy something on 2021 and evaluatiing now??? Is it english that has the problem or related to retard mind?



By 2021 most of the countries will have fifth generation jets and we will only buy fourth generation in 2021. It will at least take a few years for order to be recieved.


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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> They will buy something on 2021 and evaluatiing now??? Is it english that has the problem or related to retard mind?



Yeah, we can't exactly the same shopping list as USA either  

Air Force aims higher

Such plans have long term implications. 

The thread's article clearly states that BAF will be inducting modern aircraft over the next 13-15 years. 

No reason to rush. 

Bangladesh works on a tight budget. At the moment, it's focusing mainly on navy. Both naval and air force matters are expensive.



banglarmanush said:


> *By 2021 most of the countries will have fifth generation jets and we will only buy fourth generation in 2021.* It will at least take a few years for order to be recieved.



Unfortunately true.


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## BLUE_ Pheonix

Bludgeon said:


> Air Force aims higher
> 
> Such plans have long term implications.
> 
> The thread's article clearly states that BAF will be inducting modern aircraft over the next 13-15 years.
> 
> No reason to rush.
> 
> Bangladesh works on a tight budget. At the moment, it's focusing mainly on navy. Both naval and air force matters are expensive.


 isnt 13-15 years a bit much?


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## mjnaushad

banglarmanush said:


> By 2021 most of the countries will have fifth generation jets and we will only buy fourth generation in 2021. It will at least take a few years for order to be recieved.



Not really.... Most probably F35 investor countries, Russia and probably India will have 5th gen aircraft..... they are at most 10 countries.... Rest of the world will try to stay at 4.5th gen because of its threats and the budget restraints..


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## Avisheik

BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> isnt 13-15 years a bit much?


 

Our military budget a bit low. Hopefully if our economy experiences double digit growth, the number of years will be reduced to 5 to 7 years


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## Zabaniyah

BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> isnt 13-15 years a bit much?



It is a bit. But we have to understand that the BAF operates on a very tight budget. Couple that with Bangladesh's relatively small economy and weak technological base.


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## BLUE_ Pheonix

Bludgeon said:


> It is a bit. But we have to understand that the BAF operates on a very tight budget. Couple that with Bangladesh's relatively small economy and weak technological base.


 wat is bangladesh defence budget?


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## Avisheik

BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> wat is bangladesh defence budget?


 
US$ 1.33 billion


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## BLUE_ Pheonix

banglarmanush said:


> US$ 1.33 billion


 than choice of f7 is reasonable


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## Zabaniyah

BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> wat is bangladesh defence budget?



As of 2011, Bangladesh's defense budget is $1.6 billion. That is 1% of it's GDP. So, it isn't a lot really


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## Avisheik

mjnaushad said:


> Not really.... Most probably F35 investor countries, Russia and probably India will have 5th gen aircraft..... they are at most 10 countries.... Rest of the world will try to stay at 4.5th gen because of its threats and the budget restraints..


 
Well by 2021 NATO countries will have f35s, so will the other allies of the US such as singapore israel, maybe japan and korea, etc.

Russia, India, China, Korea, Indonesia, japan will be developing there own by 2020. They will probably sell them to their allies or potential customers like brazil as well. 

So IMO, a lot of countries will have fifth generation fighters

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:00 PM ----------




BLUE_ Pheonix said:


> than choice of f7 is reasonable



8-10 FC-1 for around $180 miilion in total will be a very good deal compared to
16 F 7 for around $150 million in total

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## mjnaushad

banglarmanush said:


> Well by 2021 NATO countries will have f35s, so will the other allies of the US such as singapore israel, maybe japan and korea, etc.
> 
> Russia, India, China, Korea, Indonesia, japan will be developing there own by 2020. They will probably sell them to their allies or potential customers like brazil as well.
> 
> So IMO, a lot of countries will have fifth generation fighters



US allies might have it.... But my assumption is based on the fact that developing 5th gen is not easy.... i am not betting for chinese 5th gen before 2020......still none of us have time machine to say anything for certain......

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## Zabaniyah

You know, I now really starting to think that they don't want the FC-1 due to political reasoning


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## Avisheik

Bludgeon said:


> You know, I now really starting to think that they don't want the FC-1 due to political reasoning



Come on man, if they flushed down $150 million of our DEFENCE BUDGET due to political reasoning, i dunnoe what else did they flush down

Anyway both planes are from china


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## Zabaniyah

banglarmanush said:


> Come on man, if they flushed down $150 million of our DEFENCE BUDGET due to political reasoning, i dunnoe what else did they flush down
> 
> Anyway both planes are from china



50% of the FC-1's sales revenue goes to Pakistan.


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## Avisheik

Bludgeon said:


> 50% of the FC-1's sales revenue goes to Pakistan.



I dont think pakistan is an issue. I have a feeling that the air force is going for quantity rather than quality


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## Zarvan

Bangladesh needs to buy advanced WARPLANES not these planes these are just a joke in today's Air Force even we are trying to get rid of them as soon as possible but Bangladesh is buying more


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## Zabaniyah

banglarmanush said:


> I dont think pakistan is an issue. I have a feeling that the air force is going for quantity rather than quality



It is possible, though impossible to prove. 

Bangladesh is small and somewhat cornered. It should always go for the most feasible aircraft in technical terms, not political. And I mean good quality and modern birds here. 

I don't know, it could also be due to lack of fund allocation for the BAF.

I have no idea just what our chiefs are thinking!


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## Avisheik

Bludgeon said:


> It is possible, though impossible to prove.
> 
> Bangladesh is small and somewhat cornered. It should always go for the most feasible aircraft in technical terms, not political. And I mean good quality and modern birds here.
> 
> I don't know, it could also be due to lack of fund allocation for the BAF.
> 
> I have no idea just what our chiefs are thinking!



On the bright side we have 52 F7s now .


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## kobiraaz

39 precisely. Rest are obsolete and grounded.

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## applesauce

wild_fire1979 said:


> These days when you are up against major powers there are realistically two deterrents:
> 
> 1. A super strong economy
> 2. Nukes
> 
> At this time BD has neither, though number one is acquirable with the right policies, trying to acquire the other will be equivalent to day dreaming



not true, you can also just have a really close friend who has the above two criteria

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## Areesh

I think BAF would have got FC-1 for at least 20 million$ per piece. So for around 200 million$ they might 10 FC-1. Anyways for now the decision to buy F-7BGI looks both due to political reasons and lack of funds.


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## monitor

banglarmanush said:


> I dont think pakistan is an issue. I have a feeling that the air force is going for quantity rather than quality


 

or may be getting commission by the top brash or the local agent and also would have the local agent to get the maintenance job in high price as like what happened with our A-5


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## monitor

Areesh said:


> I think BAF would have got FC-1 for at least 20 million$ per piece. So for around 200 million$ they might 10 FC-1. Anyways for now the decision to buy F-7BGI looks both due to political reasons and lack of funds.



i don't think Fund is the main problem. we need some fighter but it is not as important that we are in war with any one . BAF can wait for the fund to get the best fighter or they can try to get lease some F-7 from China or Pakistan for contingency . as the decision is already taken as per the news we can only hope that this new baby will have the possibility to get direct data link with Chinese AWACS which we may buy in future .


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## mjnaushad

Bludgeon said:


> 50% of the FC-1's sales revenue goes to Pakistan.



Could be the reason and could not be as well..... I dont know whats the attitude of current BD govt towards Pakistan or High official of BD forces..... But Pakistan did sale some weapons to BD in the past....


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## Zabaniyah

mjnaushad said:


> Could be the reason and could not be as well..... I dont know whats the attitude of current BD govt towards Pakistan or High official of BD forces..... But Pakistan did sale some weapons to BD in the past....



The current BD government is extremely anti-Pakistani.


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## UKBengali

BD should have put in an order for 48 FC-1s and also around 3-4 Chinese ZDK-03 AWACs.

BD's growing revenue (over 10% extra government revenue every year due to GDP growth and collection of higher tax revenue as a percentage of GDP) and the fact that the Chinese would be more than willing to accept payment over many years would have made a deal like this financially feasible.

Silly BD has wasted 150 million US dollars on planes that would be sitting ducks against India SU-30s and Myarmese Mig-29s


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## T90TankGuy

SuperDoper said:


> No, you don't, I am not implying anything about Pakistan man. Pakistan is totally different story. You know what I am saying?



i dont think any one know what you are saying .

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## Zabaniyah

UKBengali said:


> BD should have put in an order for 48 FC-1s and also around 3-4 Chinese ZDK-03 AWACs.
> 
> BD's growing revenue (over 10% extra government revenue every year due to GDP growth and collection of higher tax revenue as a percentage of GDP) and the fact that the Chinese would be more than willing to accept payment over many years would have made a deal like this financially feasible.
> 
> *Silly BD has wasted 150 million US dollars on planes that would be sitting ducks against India SU-30s and Myarmese Mig-29s*



Dude, I share your pain. But the real idiots are the ones making the decisions! Oh wait, we ARE the idiots electing them

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## Avisheik

Bludgeon said:


> Dude, I share your pain. But the real idiots are the ones making the decisions! Oh wait, we ARE the idiots electing them



But the air force chiefs decides which jets to buy. And they are not elected, they got their positions on merit


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## Tshering22

Well considering that there was urgent need, it is a prompt decision. IMO having a couple of squadrons of something like Gripen NGs and rest of the money dedicated in installing anti-air defense like S-400 would be the best option for Bangladesh.


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## SBD-3

iajdani said:


> Well these are stop gap measure to fill the dire need of the airforce as we are getting short in number of planes. Even though sounds weired to buy F-7 in 2011 but what other aircraft we can get in such a short notice?
> 
> The plane we are evaluating righ now are SU-30, F-16, Mig-29CMT, Gripen which will become the core of our airforce. SU-30 most likely the winner.
> 
> To all Pakistanis who think they are in a position to donate plane, should better concentrate on paying off IMF loans and how they could avail the next installment and try to secure GSP+ facilities in Europe.
> And to all Indians who think that they became superpower with SU-30 then they should stop sleeping as another superpower is in making in their eastern border with SU-30 as well.


I am working in reserves management department....FYI, the decision to opt out of IMF program was decided after positive developments in external account which will also continue this year


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## Imran Khan

banglarmanush said:


> But the air force chiefs decides which jets to buy. And they are not elected, they got their positions on merit



nope but gov play important role sir


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## TopCat

banglarmanush said:


> By 2021 most of the countries will have fifth generation jets and we will only buy fourth generation in 2021. It will at least take a few years for order to be recieved.



But by 2021 if we could arm ourselves with 4 or 4.5th generation fighter that should be enough. We can always order 5th generation figthers 2021 onward.

Some good poster suggesting that we will be inducting 4th generation fighter after 2021 is totally wrong. *On 2021 * means nothing will happen before 2021. *By 2021 * means we will complete arming ourselves with the planned aircrafts. So as we speaking now, we are in the process of buying some Sukuis and I will not be surprised to see some of them flying before the end of AL regime.


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## UKBengali

Bludgeon said:


> Dude, I share your pain. But the real idiots are the ones making the decisions! Oh wait, we ARE the idiots electing them



BD has an economy of 110 billion USD dollars growing at 7% a year. It's budget spending to GDP ratio is likely to rise from the current 17% to over 20% by the end of this decade. Looking far forward to 2030, this percentage will get to anywhere from 25-30%.

I would have thought that a country like BD would have procured FC-1 fighters between 2010-2014, J-10B/NG Gripen fighters from 2015-2019 and then 5th generation JSF/J-XX fighters from 2020 onwards.

In the past, BD had no choice but to purchase F-7 aircraft. 

That is not the case now, and the only conclusion is that there are absolute morons running the country.


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## kobiraaz

there is another problem... Not many bangladeshis support military spendings.... It is you, me or some other people who are interested in military wants advanced techs but my experience of talking military in common people says 80% of them oppose military spendings....


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## SQ8

what must be considered is the unit price of the jets and the relative cost to capability ratio.
BgAF already operates the type, which means a LOT less time in transition, logistics and training.
Moreover, the terrain in Bangladesh allows for some fairly clever dispersal airfields if the BgAF thinks about it.
The relative short takeoff of the F-7G type might make it an excellent surprise interceptor.


----------



## wild_fire1979

iajdani said:


> But by 2021 if we could arm ourselves with 4 or 4.5th generation fighter that should be enough. We can always order 5th generation figthers 2021 onward.
> 
> Some good poster suggesting that we will be inducting 4th generation fighter after 2021 is totally wrong. *On 2021 * means nothing will happen before 2021. *By 2021 * means we will complete arming ourselves with the planned aircrafts. So as we speaking now, we are in the process of buying some Sukuis and I will not be surprised to see some of them flying before the end of AL regime.



You would be barely able to complete inducting the F-7s by 2021. I believe that a 4.5 gen fighter at this time for BD is just a pipe dream 

Gripen by far will the best choice. Low on maintenance and extremely well built. Plus its a single engine aircraft so it would cost less too


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## Lighting_Fighter

I have something to contribute. If F-16 is offered to bangladesh by US and it is used, why not get F-16 from Turkey. They manufacture F-16 and instead of used bangladesh will get newly made F-16s.


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## Avisheik

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I have something to contribute. If F-16 is offered to bangladesh by US and it is used, why not get F-16 from Turkey. They manufacture F-16 and instead of used bangladesh will get newly made F-16s.



Welcome Lighting bro. Well the main reason we are not going for f16s is because of budget constrains


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## Sheikh Shakib Ahmed

punisher said:


> Common buddy, India is not gonna attack BD, or not have a intension to occupy. If we wanted it, we can already done it in 1972. We don't need to Use IAF against BD.




Bangladesh is not so cheap. If you wanted to occupy Bangladesh in 1972, your seven sisters would be free to marry the foreigner to make new progeny. Even , at present, if you try to occupy the Bangladesh , India must be spliced into several pieces. So, don't look at Bangladesh. We are not heterogeneous like you. WE ARE WELL DEFINED. DON'T LOOK AT US IN THE EYES OF AN AGGRESSOR. We know well, how to defend.


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## soul hacker

Sheikh Shakib Ahmed said:


> Bangladesh is not so cheap. If you wanted to occupy Bangladesh in 1972, your seven sisters would be free to marry the foreigner to make new progeny. Even , at present, if you try to occupy the Bangladesh , India must be spliced into several pieces. So, don't look at Bangladesh. We are not heterogeneous like you. WE ARE WELL DEFINED. DON'T LOOK AT US IN THE EYES OF AN AGGRESSOR. We know well, how to defend.



yar tumhara BARA bhai hai na cool down

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## Zabaniyah

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I have something to contribute. If F-16 is offered to bangladesh by US and it is used, why not get F-16 from Turkey. They manufacture F-16 and instead of used bangladesh will get newly made F-16s.



Those F-16s are made under license in Turkey. They are *NOT* for export. So if anyone is going to buy F-16s, one has to do so from the US! 

Although, I believe we can still buy spares and weapons from Turkey and even Pakistan. That is given if we actually buy them.


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## Zabaniyah

UKBengali said:


> BD has an economy of 110 billion USD dollars growing at 7% a year. It's budget spending to GDP ratio is likely to rise from the current 17% to over 20% by the end of this decade. Looking far forward to 2030, this percentage will get to anywhere from 25-30%.
> 
> I would have thought that a country like BD would have procured FC-1 fighters between 2010-2014, J-10B/NG Gripen fighters from 2015-2019 and then 5th generation JSF/J-XX fighters from 2020 onwards.
> 
> In the past, BD had no choice but to purchase F-7 aircraft.
> 
> That is not the case now, and the only conclusion is that there are absolute morons running the country.



I have a theory. Since Zillur Rahman is old, along with the other old fools on the cabinet (regardless if AL or BNP) an F-7 does look very modern  

It's like an F-35 for them 

As far as 5th generation fighters go, we can technically afford them, but then we have a massive population to take care of. 



Faarhan said:


> there is another problem... Not many bangladeshis support military spendings.... It is you, me or some other people who are interested in military wants advanced techs but my experience of talking military in common people says 80% of them oppose military spendings....



Unfortunately, this is true. But they do have a point. Although it's invalid. 

There are several impoverished and underprivileged people in Bangladesh alone. They are assuming that instead of spending on military, they should spend to eradicate poverty. I heard one naive fool who stated that we don't even need a military and we will become like Luxembourg in one day! 

Unfortunately for them, it isn't that simple. Our neighborhood is not like that of Luxembourg, and we have a huge and mostly impoverished population to take care of with limited resources, including land. 

See from the nature of our system, it doesn't matter if we don't spend at all on military. Poverty will just as be the same as it now. That money would instead go into the pockets of ministers and MPs. And technically, it isn't the job of the military to carry out charity operations, or work to solve global warming issues, other than post natural disaster operations. So, it's better to have something than nothing. 

Another potential issue that Bangladeshi people despise about the army is due to the fact that they hold so much land. And I mean, a *LOT* of land all around the country. With nothing more than trees and squirrels. And it's not only army, there's land for air force, navy and BGB. 

But as history suggests, this was an inevitable outcome. Thanks to the dangerously flawed policies against the military of the Mujib era. 

Mujib was not a bad man. His flaw was lack of experience, and made friends and alliances with many bad people. And I mean *BAD* people. Probably evil. And he was successful for a separate Bangladesh in a very short period of time. I'd say, there was no such thing as 'quality control' within the AL's rule, then, now and will continue to be that way tomorrow. 

Those are the kind of things that many Bangladeshis forget about. And as history states, we are a forgetful nation. When will those "80 percent" start taking responsibility for themselves and be assertive other than allowing others to run the show? Only time will tell. 

We are a forgetful nation who simply refuse to take any initiative ourselves.

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## bd_4_ever

So how many F-7s will we be having after this procurement?


Cheers!!!


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## Lighting_Fighter

I don't know but I read somewhere that turkey made F-16s for Jordan. I can't confirm the validity of this so old information. By the way, does Jordan has F-16?


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## Zabaniyah

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I don't know but I read somewhere that turkey made F-16s for Jordan. I can't confirm the validity of this so old information. By the way, does Jordan has F-16?



Yes they do. But they weren't bought from Turkey. They were however upgraded by TAI. Similar to what happened to PAF's F-16s.


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## Avisheik

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I don't know but I read somewhere that turkey made F-16s for Jordan. I can't confirm the validity of this so old information. By the way, does Jordan has F-16?



Jordan has f 16s but they were from US. Turkey just upgraded tham

---------- Post added at 12:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:31 PM ----------




bd_4_ever said:


> So how many F-7s will we be having after this procurement?
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!


 
54. But according to faarhan only 39 will be operational


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## bd_4_ever

banglarmanush said:


> 54. But according to faarhan only 39 will be operational



39 interceptors are fine for now i guess. A decade more, and we shall have better planes.

Patience is the virtue! 


Cheers!!!


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## Major Shaheb

Emmie said:


> BD should go for Su-30, viper, Gripen, typhoon etc etc... J7, JFT, J10 etc etc are not up to the standards, *many BD members believe the later part*.
> 
> Anyway nice move by BAF, F7 are good.



May be you have not read the news published by BD govt. that the F-7BGI is a stop-gap aircraft for BAF and till they get any of the four advanced aircraft (F-16/Mig-29SMT/Su-30/JAS-39). The F-7BGI shall replace A-5C & FT-6 from service. BAF needed a cheap stop-gap solution and JF-17 & J-10 are pricey solutions compared to F-7BGI.


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## kobiraaz

Major Shaheb said:


> May be you have not read the news published by BD govt. that the F-7BGI is a stop-gap aircraft for BAF and till they get any of the four advanced aircraft (F-16/Mig-29SMT/Su-30/JAS-39). The F-7BGI shall replace A-5C & FT-6 from service. BAF needed a cheap stop-gap solution and JF-17 & J-10 are pricey solutions compared to F-7BGI.



wah! 1 statement from our air force and you have posted the same crap for 40 times. Eva heard of regime change?? Previously BNP even cancelled mig29 order midway to go chinese. This is hasina backed decision. It will change for sure......


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## Zabaniyah

Faarhan said:


> wah! 1 statement from our air force and you have posted the same crap for 40 times. Eva heard of regime change?? Previously BNP even cancelled mig29 order midway to go chinese. This is hasina backed decision. It will change for sure......



Bangladesh would be better off with JF-17 and J-10. Or any single engined fighter for that matter, which the Russians do not make at the moment.


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## Ammyy

If JF17 is available in just 15 million price tag then why decades old fighters ??

Reason is simple : Capabilities are almost same then why spend more on infrastructure ??


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## FNFAL

Major Shaheb said:


> May be you have not read the news published by BD govt. that the F-7BGI is a stop-gap aircraft for BAF and till they get any of the four advanced aircraft (F-16/Mig-29SMT/Su-30/JAS-39). The F-7BGI shall replace A-5C & FT-6 from service. BAF needed a cheap stop-gap solution and JF-17 & J-10 are pricey solutions compared to F-7BGI.



at what price was the jf-17 offered???
at what price wad rhe f-7bgi offered...

aint the jf-17/fc-1 offered as the cheap do it all soln???


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## Zabaniyah

FNFAL said:


> at what price was the jf-17 offered???
> at what price wad rhe f-7bgi offered...
> 
> aint the jf-17/fc-1 offered as the cheap do it all soln???



F-7 is around $9-$10 million. This is just a stop gap for some years as BAF goes ahead with its procurement plans.


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## JonAsad

DRDO said:


> If JF17 is available in just 15 million price tag then why decades old fighters ??
> 
> Reason is simple : Capabilities are almost same then why spend more on infrastructure ??


 
read why BAF is getting F7's- it simply can't afford jf-17 now-

and you are a fool to compare capabilities of jf-17 to f7- really a big fool-


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## Zabaniyah

DRDO said:


> If JF17 is available in just 15 million price tag then why decades old fighters ??
> 
> *Reason is simple : Capabilities are almost same then why spend more on infrastructure ??*



You are obviously confused between a 3rd generation aircraft and a 4th generation one

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## Areesh

DRDO said:


> If JF17 is available in just 15 million price tag then why decades old fighters ??
> 
> Reason is simple : Capabilities are almost same then why spend more on infrastructure ??


 
Neither the BAF would have bought JFT for just 15 millions nor the capabilities of JFT and F-7 are same. So...... Your post is unrealistic.


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## Ammyy

JonAsad said:


> read why BAF is getting F7's- it simply can't afford jf-17 now-
> 
> and you are a fool to compare capabilities of jf-17 to f7- really a big fool-


 


Zabaniya said:


> You are obviously confused between a 3rd generation aircraft and a 4th generation one


 


Areesh said:


> Neither the BAF would have bought JFT for just 15 millions nor the capabilities of JFT and F-7 are same. So...... Your post is unrealistic.




Even when China is dying to sell their 15 million tag fighter with loans, even when BD using Chinese fighters since long

And if they considered JF17 for their future aircraft (cause they cant afford to many) then why they need old plane ???


BD seriously dnt consider JF17 for future, they need more capable fighter (otherwise selecting olf F7 cant make any sense)


Kisi cheej ko bar bar achcha kahne se vo acchche nahi ho jati


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## Areesh

DRDO said:


> Even when China is dying to sell their 15 million tag fighter with loans, even when BD using Chinese fighters since long


 
How many times I have to tell you JFT won't have cost at 15 million to BAF. At least the price tag would have been 20 million. 



> And if they considered JF17 for their future aircraft (cause they cant afford to many) then why they need old plane ???



Because at present BAF is more dedicated towards building air defense than buying aircrafts. F-7bgi was the most affordable choice for them as stop gap in this situation. Their are political reasons behind it too. Like the profit out of the sales would have been shared with Pakistan and AL govt "ghairat" doesn't accept it.



> BD seriously dnt consider JF17 for future, they need more capable fighter (otherwise selecting olf F7 cant make any sense)



And F-7 is more "capable" aircraft than JFT? Lol.



> Kisi cheej ko bar bar achcha kahne se vo acchche nahi ho jati



Aur kisi cheez ko bar bar bura kehnai sai woh buri bhi nahi ho jati.


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## Ammyy

Areesh said:


> How many times I have to tell you JFT won't have cost at 15 million to BAF. At least the price tag would have been 20 million.
> Because at present BAF is more dedicated towards building air defense than buying aircrafts. F-7bgi was the most affordable choice for them as stop gap in this situation. Their are political reasons behind it too. Like the profit out of the sales would have been shared with Pakistan and AL govt "ghairat" doesn't accept it.



I know truth hurts .....

Their is no excuse for selecting F7 instead of JF17 ....... 



> And F-7 is more "capable" aircraft than JFT? Lol.



I didnt tell this ... My point is that if they want Jf17 is future so their is no way to select J7




> Aur kisi cheez ko bar bar bura kehnai sai woh buri bhi nahi ho jati.



For that China need customer .. and if China dnt want Jf17 then how can they convene others ??


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## Areesh

DRDO said:


> I know truth hurts .....



I know that's why you aren't accepting it.



> Their is no excuse for selecting F7 instead of JF17 .......
> 
> I didnt tell this ... My point is that if they want Jf17 is future so their is no way to select J7



I have tell you the reason. And fortunately BD members also agree with it. You being an Indian obviously have issues in accepting them. I am not surprised either.



> For that China need customer .. and if China dnt want Jf17 then how can they convene others ??



This thing has been discussed enough to depth. Now even after the discussions if you Indians want to just stick with one stupid statement then it's your choice. We will enjoy the idiocy associated with such statements.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

The indian is true... J7 is better than JF-17... indians!


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## Nitin Goyal

I think BD should buy JF17 happy hours fighter.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Bangladesh is getting used to new planes from China , so it will take some time may be 3-4 years before they start ordering good stuff from China 

A bold strategic decision by Bangladesh to align its national security with China


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## Zabaniyah

DRDO said:


> Even when China is dying to sell their 15 million tag fighter with loans, even when BD using Chinese fighters since long
> 
> And if they considered JF17 for their future aircraft (cause they cant afford to many) then why they need old plane ???
> 
> 
> BD seriously dnt consider JF17 for future, they need more capable fighter (otherwise selecting olf F7 cant make any sense)
> 
> 
> Kisi cheej ko bar bar achcha kahne se vo acchche nahi ho jati



Do you know what is meant by a 'stop gap' measure? 

The JF-17 isn't exactly $15 million. It's marketing 

If you are saying that the F-7 is better than the JF-17, then I really have nothing to say


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## bdslph

no matter what there is differences between JF17 and F7


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## rcrmj

why indian brought themselves in every discussion that make them look like clowns?
why dont you brought yourself in with meaningful argument apart from lashing clueless claims like JF-17 has the same capability as J-7s?

I really start believing in thier everage IQ thing. 

a powerful or advanced airfornce cannot be built in one day, it is a part of holistic national decision (economy, social, science and defense ``etc)


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## MZUBAIR

For some Indian & BD trollers....Major Specification Differences

*
F7*
Radar Range:- 30-35 KM.
Speed:- 2.0 Mach
Loaded weight: 7,540 kg 
Combat radius: 850 km
Air-to-air missiles*(WVR)*: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550, AIM-9
Air to Ground:- Drop Tanks, Unguided Bombs.
*Role:- *Interceptor
*Cost:-* $6 to 8 Million

*JF17*
Radar Range:- 130-150 KM *(BVR Capable)*
Speed:- 1.8 Mach
Loaded weight: 9100 kg 
Combat radius: 1,352 km
Air-to-air missiles*(WVR) & (BVR)*:
Short range: AIM-9L/M, PL-5E, PL-9C
Beyond visual range: PL-12 / SD-10
Air-to-surface missiles: Anti-radiation missiles : MAR-1[89]
Anti-ship missiles: C-802A,[72] C-803
Cruise missiles: Ra'ad ALCM


Bombs:
Unguided bombs: Mk-82, Mk-84 general purpose bombs
Matra Durandal anti-runway bomb
CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bomb

Precision guided munitions (PGM): GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs
H-2, H-4 electro-optically guided,[3] LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs[132]
Satellite-guided bombs


*Role:-* Multirole combat aircraft [Fighter, Air to Surface, interception, forward air control, and electronic warfare]
*Cost:-* $15 to 18 Million

*Specifications speaks itself*

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## bdslph

MZUBAIR said:


> For some Indian & BD trollers....Major Specification Differences
> 
> *
> F7*
> Radar Range:- 30-35 KM.
> Speed:- 2.0 Mach
> Loaded weight: 7,540 kg
> Combat radius: 850 km
> Air-to-air missiles*(WVR)*: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550, AIM-9
> Air to Ground:- Drop Tanks, Unguided Bombs.
> *Role:- *Interceptor
> *Cost:-* $6 to 8 Million
> 
> *JF17*
> Radar Range:- 130-150 KM *(BVR Capable)*
> Speed:- 1.8 Mach
> Loaded weight: 9100 kg
> Combat radius: 1,352 km
> Air-to-air missiles*(WVR) & (BVR)*:
> Short range: AIM-9L/M, PL-5E, PL-9C
> Beyond visual range: PL-12 / SD-10
> Air-to-surface missiles: Anti-radiation missiles : MAR-1[89]
> Anti-ship missiles: C-802A,[72] C-803
> Cruise missiles: Ra'ad ALCM
> 
> 
> Bombs:
> Unguided bombs: Mk-82, Mk-84 general purpose bombs
> Matra Durandal anti-runway bomb
> CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bomb
> 
> Precision guided munitions (PGM): GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs
> H-2, H-4 electro-optically guided,[3] LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs[132]
> Satellite-guided bombs
> 
> 
> *Role:-* Multirole combat aircraft [Fighter, Air to Surface, interception, forward air control, and electronic warfare]
> *Cost:-* $15 to 18 Million
> 
> *Specifications speaks itself*





that is the basic JF17 Block I and the JF17 Block II is coming soon which is far more better


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## kobiraaz

MZUBAIR said:


> For some Indian & BD trollers....Major Specification Differences
> 
> *
> F7*
> Radar Range:- 30-35 KM.
> Speed:- 2.0 Mach
> Loaded weight: 7,540 kg
> Combat radius: 850 km
> Air-to-air missiles*(WVR)*: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550, AIM-9
> Air to Ground:- Drop Tanks, Unguided Bombs.
> *Role:- *Interceptor
> *Cost:-* $6 to 8 Million
> 
> *JF17*
> Radar Range:- 130-150 KM *(BVR Capable)*
> Speed:- 1.8 Mach
> Loaded weight: 9100 kg
> Combat radius: 1,352 km
> Air-to-air missiles*(WVR) & (BVR)*:
> Short range: AIM-9L/M, PL-5E, PL-9C
> Beyond visual range: PL-12 / SD-10
> Air-to-surface missiles: Anti-radiation missiles : MAR-1[89]
> Anti-ship missiles: C-802A,[72] C-803
> Cruise missiles: Ra'ad ALCM
> 
> 
> Bombs:
> Unguided bombs: Mk-82, Mk-84 general purpose bombs
> Matra Durandal anti-runway bomb
> CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bomb
> 
> Precision guided munitions (PGM): GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs
> H-2, H-4 electro-optically guided,[3] LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs[132]
> Satellite-guided bombs
> 
> 
> *Role:-* Multirole combat aircraft [Fighter, Air to Surface, interception, forward air control, and electronic warfare]
> *Cost:-* $15 to 18 Million
> 
> *Specifications speaks itself*


 
Well thanks for your comparison but i think its invalid. Because f-7BGI will have different specifictions.....

I am not against Jf-17. But Jf-17 discussion is also invalid here... We are considering ground air defence now. bangladesh will take two three years more for a new generation fighter.... They just didnt want to waste any extra money after new infrastructure.... So procuring F-7 makes sense.... It was never f-7 vs jf-17..


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## Zabaniyah

JF-17's weapons and systems aren't fully integrated yet.


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## bdslph

well there will time come maybe in future we will buy FC1 JF17 the best one


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## kobiraaz

^ looks like our military think tanks prefer quality not number...... but our air force liked f7 very much for its easy maintenance..... So we have to compromise between maintenance and quality........ Jf-17 needs more time to prove itself and it needs lobbying from China. .........till then our think tanks will not take any risk. Its hard earned money after all.


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## Varunastra

well i want to see baf as a strong airforce one day!!!!!!!..........every1 prefers strong ally's!!!........every small step towards achieving that goal should be apreciated!!!!


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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> yep *but they will stay in service 10-15 years* dear as they are brand new .



That is the plan my friend. BAF Chief said, the air force is evaluating Mig-29CMT, F-16, Su-30 and Jas-39 one of which shall enter into BAF service in 10-13 years. That is why they have went for brand new.


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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> i think 200 pakistani f-7s are ready to go out of service bd should take them as F-6



The pakistani version of F-7 is comparatively much downgraded than F-7BG. BD is taking F-7BGI which is much more advanced derivative of F-7BG. Once the F-7BGI are delivered, we are also going to decommission 1 squadron of F-7MB, 1 squadron of A-5C along with FT-6 by the way.


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## Major Shaheb

Karachihunk said:


> Bangladesh has gone crazy, when the whole world is eyeing towards fifth generation aircraft *they are going for F7*  dont know if they are so dumb or Chinese are too smart.



I don't know if you know this or not, but JF-17 is also a derivative of F-7 just like F-7BGI. China needed funding for their J-20 development and managed it with the funding made by PAF in FC-1 program. FC-1 (Super-7) was 80% developed when PAF invested in the program. China is taking delivery (last delivery 2009) of more J-7 but they are not introducing FC-1 in their service.....WHY!?! 

Now just think, Bangladesh or Pakistan, which country is more crazy. LOL.....


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Major Shaheb said:


> I don't know if you know this or not, *but JF-17 is also a derivative of F-7 just like F-7BGI*. China needed funding for their J-20 development and managed it with the funding made by PAF in FC-1 program. FC-1 (Super-7) was 80% developed when PAF invested in the program. China is taking delivery (last delivery 2009) of more J-7 but they are not introducing FC-1 in their service.....WHY!?!
> 
> Now just think, Bangladesh or Pakistan, which country is more crazy. LOL.....

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## Major Shaheb

punisher said:


> As they want J-7, you should charge min atleast. Yesterday they are talking about SU-30,my god they didn't talked to acquire rafale........today BD decision



We are still talking about Su-30, F-16, Mig-29CMT and JAS-39. One of the four aircraft will join BAF with in 10-13 years according to BAF chief. 20-30 example of the aircraft shall be procured. 

Why did you make Tejas then!!! You are procuring 128 Rafale/EF2000, Jointly making FGFA. So, I guess Tejas was just an advanced Jet trainer then right!!!!!


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## Major Shaheb

Areesh said:


> By the way how good are these F-7BGI's as compared PAF F-7PG. Anyone?



According to an earlier post in this forum F-7BG was much more advanced than any existing F-7 including F-7PG and thus quoted post name *"Poor-man's F-16"* by our Pakistani brother. F-7BGI is a much more advanced version of F-7BG. I think you have got the answer you were looking for.


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## Major Shaheb

Avisheik said:


> Well the F 7 will replace the A5s which by the way are really old. Furthermore, We use F 7s as interceptors not fighters, migs are our only fighters. But i still do not think its a good deal. If we wanted stop gap usage, we could have bought L-159ALCA or Yak-130. Buying this third generation warcraft is a waste of money.



Hello brother!!! L-159ALCA unit price is $15-$17mln. YAK-130 unit price is $20mln. F-7BGI is around $7-$9mln. which one is better to u now as stop gap!!!


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> *50% of the FC-1's sales revenue goes to Pakistan*.



Correction, 50% of JF-17 revenue goes to China. FC-1 is Chinese original version. JF-17 is FC-1's PAF modification.


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## Major Shaheb

Avisheik said:


> On the bright side we have 52 F7s now .



Our F-7MB fleet shall be retired along with A-5&FT-6. As like A-5s our F-7MB entered service with BAF back in 1988. So, we shall be left with 8 Mig-29, 16 F-7BG & 16 F-7BGI. = 8 Mig-29(will be upgraded to SMT), 32 F-7BG/BGI. = 40 Multirole fighter aircraft.


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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> Correction, 50% of JF-17 revenue goes to China. FC-1 is Chinese original version. JF-17 is FC-1's PAF modification.



yes yes i can understand your pain F-7BGI is great fighter in 7-8mn $ of course as its Bengali . jf-17 is nothing but medication of PAF .what more **** we can expect from those who buy 50 years old tech as junk price for feel good on others .?

at this time only you guys can got F-7BGI 5th+++ gen fighter now go sleep .sharam to nhi ati .

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ----------

another side india pakistan china throwing this mig-21 f-7s junk and someone collecting it 

---------- Post added at 11:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 PM ----------




Major Shaheb said:


> The pakistani version of F-7 is comparatively much downgraded than F-7BG. BD is taking F-7BGI which is much more advanced derivative of F-7BG. Once the F-7BGI are delivered, we are also going to decommission 1 squadron of F-7MB, 1 squadron of A-5C along with FT-6 by the way.



can you please told us which great loading of missiles BVRs AESA RADAR GBUs LBUs and nuclear bombs carry you BG? as its is world great fighter which your poor gov select in 2012 even uganda will think again to buy this junk . and they got SU30 rather then 50 years old junk .

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## Major Shaheb

Faarhan said:


> wah! 1 statement from our air force and you have posted the same crap for 40 times. Eva heard of regime change?? Previously BNP even cancelled mig29 order midway to go chinese. This is hasina backed decision. It will *change for sure*......


 
May be. but the requirement for 20-32 4+ generation fighter aircraft came from air force. They had asked particularly Su-30 to both AL Hasina now and BNP Khaleda when she was PM.


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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> May be. but the requirement for 20-32 4+ generation fighter aircraft came from air force. They had asked particularly Su-30 to both AL Hasina now and BNP Khaleda when she was PM.



they ask for what ? SU-30 ? i think they are not going anywhere else from china you know why ? indonesia uganda venzvela already got small batches of SU-30s its not something to fill the gap and then go again for new fighters i think after F-7s forget 15 years for any other fighter .


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## Lighting_Fighter

Imran Khan said:


> they ask for what ? SU-30 ? i think they are not going anywhere else from china you know why ? indonesia uganda venzvela already got small batches of SU-30s its not something to fill the gap and then go again for new fighters i think after F-7s forget 15 years for any other fighter .



SHAME SHAME SHAME on you! you are insulting us!

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## Imran Khan

Lighting_Fighter said:


> SHAME SHAME SHAME on you! you are insulting us!


 where the hell is insult? its reality in my post kid . show me where i abuse ? lolz so show you reality is insult?

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## Major Shaheb

MZUBAIR said:


> For some Indian & BD trollers....Major Specification Differences
> 
> *
> F7*
> Radar Range:- 30-35 KM.
> Speed:- 2.0 Mach
> Loaded weight: 7,540 kg
> Combat radius: 850 km
> Air-to-air missiles*(WVR)*: PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550, AIM-9
> Air to Ground:- Drop Tanks, Unguided Bombs.
> *Role:- *Interceptor
> *Cost:-* $6 to 8 Million
> 
> *JF17*
> Radar Range:- 130-150 KM *(BVR Capable)*
> Speed:- 1.8 Mach
> Loaded weight: 9100 kg
> Combat radius: 1,352 km
> Air-to-air missiles*(WVR) & (BVR)*:
> Short range: AIM-9L/M, PL-5E, PL-9C
> Beyond visual range: PL-12 / SD-10
> Air-to-surface missiles: Anti-radiation missiles : MAR-1[89]
> Anti-ship missiles: C-802A,[72] C-803
> Cruise missiles: Ra'ad ALCM
> 
> 
> Bombs:
> Unguided bombs: Mk-82, Mk-84 general purpose bombs
> Matra Durandal anti-runway bomb
> CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bomb
> 
> Precision guided munitions (PGM): GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs
> H-2, H-4 electro-optically guided,[3] LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs[132]
> Satellite-guided bombs
> 
> 
> *Role:-* Multirole combat aircraft [Fighter, Air to Surface, interception, forward air control, and electronic warfare]
> *Cost:-* $15 to 18 Million
> 
> *Specifications speaks itself*




F-7BG specification:


Ejector Seats CAC Zero-Zero 

WEIGHTS
Empty Weight 5,292 kg
*Max Weight 9,100 kg*
Powerplant 1 x Liyang WP-13F
Max Speed Mach 2.35 (high altitude)
Climb Rate 180 m/s (sea level)
Service Ceiling 18,000 m
Maximum Range 2,200km (with two drop tanks)
Combat Radius air-to-ground (lo-lo-hi) with two Mk 82 bombs and two 500 litre drop tanks 550 km
G Limit +8

ARMAMENTS
Fixed Weapons 2 x Type 30-I 30mm cannons, each with 60 rounds
External Hardpoints 5
*Air to Air Weapons AIM-9, PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-9, PL-12, R550
Air to Surface Weapons 250/500kg low-drag general-purpose or anti-runway bombs, BL755 600lb cluster bomb, 200kg anti-runway bomb, LS-6 PGM, 57/90/130mm unguided rocket launcher
*Drop Tanks 2 x 420 litres, 1 x 720 litres

AVIONICS
Flight Control WL-7 radio compass; 0101 HR A2 altitude radio altimeter; LTC-2 horizon gyro; XS-6 marker beacon receiver; VOR; Distance Measure Equipment (DME); Instrument Landing System (ILS)
Fire Control *Grifo-7MG fire-control radar (55km)*
Navigation Type 771 Doppler navigation radar, WL-6 radio compass, WG-52 radio altimetre,
XS-6 beacon receiver, INS (H-6D), INS + GPS (H-6E)
Countermeasures South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8602 RWR interfaced with the South-West China Research Institute of Electronic Equipment KG-8605 internal radar noise jammer and China National Import and Export Corporation GT-1 chaff/flare dispenser,
and Type 602 'Odd Rods' IFF


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## Imran Khan

from where you copy it? many of weapons you make this big list even not touch bangladesh .


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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> they ask for what ? SU-30 ? i think they are not going anywhere else from china you know why ? indonesia uganda venzvela already got small batches of SU-30s its not something to fill the gap and then go again for new fighters i think after F-7s forget 15 years for any other fighter .



I dont know what's wrong with u, but u r continuously missing the point here. The F-7BGI are taken to fill the gap of 10-15 years when BAF shall buy SU-30. I dont know how to spoon-feed you what does stop-gap means. Its a 15 year gap to stop with F-7BGI.

By the way, F-7BGI and JF-17 both are Chengdu J-7 derivative. So, both are 50 year old crap.

http://www.afwing.com/intro/j-7/j7fams.jpg
http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/fightersOF02.files/chengdu_PAC_FC-1_JF-17_mockup_1_big.jpg
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/j-7-comp3-line8.gif

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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> I dont know what's wrong with u, but u r continuously missing the point here. The F-7BGI are taken to fill the gap of 10-15 years when BAF shall buy SU-30. I dont know how to spoon-feed you what does stop-gap means. Its a 15 year gap to stop with F-7BGI.
> 
> By the way, F-7BGI and JF-17 both are Chengdu J-7 derivative. So, both are 50 year old crap.
> 
> http://www.afwing.com/intro/j-7/j7fams.jpg
> http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/fightersOF02.files/chengdu_PAC_FC-1_JF-17_mockup_1_big.jpg
> http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/images/j-7-comp3-line8.gif



yes yes i watch these images million times but i ask abut link from where you copy simply these specifications of F-7BG ?my qes is simple

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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> from where you copy it? many of weapons you make this big list even not touch bangladesh .



Name one. Missiles are not meant for making love or touching. I think u know that. dont u?


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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> Name one. Missiles are not meant for making love or touching. I think u know that. dont u?



YOU INCLUDE EACH AND EVERY THING EVEN DON'T BELONG TO F-7 FOR LOOK LONG AND SHORT LISTED SPECES OF JF-17 F-7 FOR LOOK YOURSELF GOOD .if i wrote like you and work cheap i can fill this page with JF-17 spaces 

ok here you go show my images one by one of these missiles and bombs loaded on f-7pg

LS-6 PGM

PL-12

Magic R.550

200kg anti-runway bomb

general-purpose or anti-runway bombs

PL-9

AIM-9

Mk 82 bombs

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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> yes yes i watch these images million times but i ask abut link from where you copy simply these specifications of F-7BG ?my qes is simple



1. www.***************
2. http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ladesh-air-forces-f-7bg-poor-mans-f-16-a.html
3. Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

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## Desert Fox

For one, i doubt the F-7 has the same payload carrying capacity as JF-17/FC-1 neither doe it have the same amount of Hard points, secondly, the F-7 radar does not have the same range as that of the JF-17/FC-1.

JF-17/FC-1 BLK2 will be equipped with AESA and IRST, along with many more upgrades, which i doubt the F07's will be receiving.


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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> YOU INCLUDE EACH AND EVERY THING EVEN DON'T BELONG TO F-7 FOR LOOK LONG AND SHORT LISTED SPECES OF JF-17 F-7 FOR LOOK YOURSELF GOOD .if i wrote like you and work cheap i can fill this page with JF-17 spaces
> 
> ok here you go show my images one by one of these missiles and bombs loaded on f-7pg
> 
> LS-6 PGM
> 
> PL-12
> 
> Magic R.550
> 
> 200kg anti-runway bomb
> 
> general-purpose or anti-runway bombs
> 
> PL-9
> 
> AIM-9
> 
> Mk 82 bombs



http://cnair.top81.cn/missiles/F-7BG.jpg
http://i40.tinypic.com/11rvjtf.jpg


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## Major Shaheb

Desert Fox said:


> For one, i doubt the F-7 has the same payload carrying capacity as JF-17/FC-1 neither doe it have the same amount of Hard points, secondly, the F-7 radar does not have the same range as that of the JF-17/FC-1.
> 
> JF-17/FC-1 BLK2 will be equipped with AESA and IRST, along with many more upgrades, which i doubt the F07's will be receiving.



Don't doubt. They are not equivalent aircraft. If F-7BGI is like F-16 block 15 then JF-17 is F-16 block 60/62. But what i meant is both the aircraft are derivatives of Chengdu J-7.

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## Ammyy

Desert Fox said:


> For one, i doubt the F-7 has the same payload carrying capacity as JF-17/FC-1 neither doe it have the same amount of Hard points, secondly, the F-7 radar does not have the same range as that of the JF-17/FC-1.
> 
> *JF-17/FC-1 BLK2 will be equipped with AESA and IR*ST, along with many more upgrades, which i doubt the F07's will be receiving.



Why you people always living in dreams their AESA still in development ...


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## rcrmj

DRDO said:


> Why you people always living in dreams their AESA still in development ...



why indians always living in dreams when their mig-21 upgrade LCA is in ever development?

why is it too difficult for indians to accept the fact that India $ucks at development and techs?

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## shuntmaster

How does F-7BGI compare with JF-17 Blk-I? Any technical specs comparison of both aircrafts?


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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Don't doubt. They are not equivalent aircraft. If F-7BGI is like F-16 block 15 then *JF-17 is F-16 block 60/62.* But what i meant is both the aircraft are derivatives of Chengdu J-7.



  

---------- Post added at 10:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------




Desert Fox said:


> For one, i doubt the F-7 has the same payload carrying capacity as JF-17/FC-1 neither doe it have the same amount of Hard points, secondly, the F-7 radar does not have the same range as that of the JF-17/FC-1.
> 
> *JF-17/FC-1 BLK2 will be equipped with AESA and IRST*, along with many more upgrades, which i doubt the F07's will be receiving.



The current JF-17's systems aren't even fully integrated. How would they equip blk 2 with AESA radar? What's the time frame?


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## foxbat

Major Shaheb said:


> Don't doubt. They are not equivalent aircraft. If F-7BGI is like F-16 block 15 then *JF-17 is F-16 block 60/62.* But what i meant is both the aircraft are derivatives of Chengdu J-7.



Heh heh.. Not its not..


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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> 1. www.***************
> 2. http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ladesh-air-forces-f-7bg-poor-mans-f-16-a.html
> 3. Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force



all this is BS first link not working secound link forum member leon write spacifecations without any link and last one is page of web which cover chines fighters . now let me tell you F-7 of bangladesh has nothing special but its f-7 like other models .all these names PG BG NM K GS TG are for users . jf-17 carry c-802 missile which is even big then f-7 overall. you guys need something to proud of so it was 2008 2009 you guys say our mig-29 are world best mig-29 and now you come to F-7 LOLZ latter it will be A-5 which we already parked in corner . funny thing you guys compare that junk with JF-17 for satisfy your ego .

still waiting for your pics ?


you bring these spacifecations of F-7PG?
have some shame let me show you some thing now 


> F7
> Radar Range:- 30-35 KM.
> Speed:- 2.0 Mach
> Loaded weight: 7,540 kg
> Combat radius: 850 km
> Air-to-air missiles(WVR): PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550, AIM-9
> Air to Ground:- Drop Tanks, Unguided Bombs.
> Role:- Interceptor
> Cost:- $6 to 8 Million



were the hell are GBU? CLUSTER BOMBS?

loaded with GBUs






sidewinders



















CLUSTER BOMBS


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## eastwatch

Imran Khan said:


> all this is BS first link not working secound link forum member leon write spacifecations without any link and last one is page of web which cover chines fighters . now let me tell you F-7 of bangladesh has nothing special but its f-7 like other models .all these names PG BG NM K GS TG are for users . jf-17 carry c-802 missile which is even big then f-7 overall. you guys need something to proud of so it was 2008 2009 you guys say our mig-29 are world best mig-29 and now you come to F-7 LOLZ latter it will be A-5 which we already parked in corner . funny thing you guys compare that junk with JF-17 for satisfy your ego .
> 
> still waiting for your pics ?
> 
> you bring these spacifecations of F-7PG?
> have some shame let me show you some thing now
> 
> were the hell are GBU? CLUSTER BOMBS?
> 
> loaded with GBUs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sidewinders
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CLUSTER BOMBS



It is possible that F-7BGI will be BVR capable alongwith all other supporting amenities. JF-17 may be a superior plane, but BAF wants to buy planes that are much superior to JF-17 or Mig-29 in the long run, may be after 5 years from now. The purpose of buying F-BGI is to replace A-5s only. An airforce requires planes that serves different purposes. Moreover, BAF is used to F-7 planes because it has one or two sq. of this plane.

BAF wants to select planes from F-16/35, Su-27/30/35 and some other european planes as its mainstay planes in the future. BAF cannot buy now any of these planes for reasons that it has shortage of budget and it has not yet built a proper infrastructure for any of these 4.5+ jets. But, BAF have no reason to buy JF-17 because it wants to buy a little superior plane in the future.


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## Zabaniyah

They wanted a 'stop gap' for the A-5s with cheap planes. And the F-7 was the answer  JF-17 would have been more expensive, even though it is technically superior. Also, because of Hasina

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## Major Sam

eastwatch said:


> It is possible that F-7BGI will be BVR capable alongwith all other supporting amenities. JF-17 may be a superior plane, but BAF wants to buy planes that are much superior to JF-17 or Mig-29 in the long run, may be after 5 years from now. The purpose of buying F-BGI is to replace A-5s only. An airforce requires planes that serves different purposes. Moreover, BAF is used to F-7 planes because it has one or two sq. of this plane.
> 
> BAF wants to select planes from F-16/35, Su-27/30/35 and some other european planes as its mainstay planes in the future. BAF cannot buy now any of these planes for reasons that it has shortage of budget and it has not yet built a proper infrastructure for any of these 4.5+ jets. But, BAF have no reason to buy JF-17 because it wants to buy a little superior plane in the future.



How u can think that Americans will give u F 35 and Russians will give u Su 35 , wat u think after 5years your budget can afford such expensive planes?


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## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> I don't know if you know this or not, but JF-17 is also a derivative of F-7 just like F-7BGI. China needed funding for their J-20 development and managed it with the funding made by PAF in FC-1 program. FC-1 (Super-7) was 80% developed when PAF invested in the program. China is taking delivery (last delivery 2009) of more J-7 but they are not introducing FC-1 in their service.....WHY!?!
> 
> Now just think, Bangladesh or Pakistan, which country is more crazy. LOL.....



I dissent from what you said,The desigen of JF17 does not come from F7. It was mainly influenced by the concept of USA F16.

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## Zabaniyah

usama waqas said:


> How u can think that Americans will give u F 35 and Russians will give u Su 35 , wat u think after 5years your budget can afford such expensive planes?



Bangladesh won't be able to afford SU-35 anytime soon. Procuring the increasingly expensive F-35s is merely a pipe dream.


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## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> Correction, 50% of JF-17 revenue goes to China. FC-1 is Chinese original version. JF-17 is FC-1's PAF modification.





i think that PAF also will make 50% profit from FC1 .FC1 is just a chinese name of JF17.

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## shuntmaster

How does F-7BGI compare with IAF's MiG-21 Bisons?

Mig-21 BISON : 

NATO Codename: Fishbed.

Indian Name: Trishul, Vikram, Bison.

Type: Single-seat, multi-role fighter.

Current versions in IAF service:

FL (Type 77); ?

M/MF (Type 96); Multi-role version with one R-11-300 turbojet with 13,688 lbs. of thrust. Has 4 pylons which can carry external fuel tanks, air-to-air missiles or twin barrel guns. Has a zero speed, zero altitude ejection seat. The MF variant has a R-11F2S-300 turbojet, otherwise similar to the 'M' variant.

Bis (Type 75); Advanced variant with further improved avionics indicated by the ILS antennae under the nose and on the fin tip. The airframe has a lifespan of 2,685 hours.

Bison; Most advanced variant with further improved avionics incl MFDs, HOTAS, RWRs and BVR Capability.

U/UM/US-Mongol(Type 66); Two seat trainer version with cockpits arranged in tandem, larger main wheels, one piece forward air brake and pilot boom repositioned above intake. Has no cannon armament. Has a broader-chord vertical tail surfaces and a under brake parachute housing, with a deeper dorsal spine and no dorsal fin fillet. One R-13 turbojet and 4 under-wing store pylons.

Accommodation: Bis; Pilot on zero/zero ejection seat with spring loaded arm at top which ensures that seat cannot be operated unless hood is closed. The canopy has a small rear view mirror, a flat bullet proof windscreen and and air-conditioned cabin. Armour plating forward and aft of cockpit. The Bison is equipped with a frameless windshield and a 'Bubble' Canopy.

Avionics: Bis;Standard avionics include automatic radio compass, IFF and a Sirena-3 RWR system. The gyro gun-sight maintains precision up to 2.75 g. Automatic ranging can be fed into gun-sight. Full blind flying instrumentation with attitude and heading indicators given by radio controlled gyro platform. The aircraft also has a search & track radar.

Engine: Depends on aircraft variant.

Maximum Speed: Mach 2.05

Service Ceiling: 15,250 meters (50,000 feet)

G Limit: ?

Combat Radius: Internal fuel - 1100 km; 683 miles.
.....................With internal fuel & four 250 kg. bombs - 370 km; 230 miles.
.....................With two 250kg bombs and drop tanks - 740 km; 460 miles.
.....................A ferry range with three fuel tanks - 1800 km; 1118 miles.

Armament: One twin-barrel 23mm GSh-23 gun with 200 rounds, in the belly pack. Has four under wing pylons for weapons or drop tanks. Can carry air-to-air missiles, rocket pods, bombs, drop tanks and other types of ordnance. In the case of the Bison, the aircraft can carry TV Guided bombs like the KAB 500.

Maximum External Stores Load: FL; 500 kg; 1102 lbs.
..........................................M/MF; 2000 kg; 4409 lbs.
..........................................bis version; 2000 kg; 4409 lbs.
..........................................U/UM/US version; 1000 kg; 2204 lbs.

Self Defence: Depends on the version of the aircraft.

-------------------------------------------

JF-17 

Specifications (JF-17/FC-1)

Data from Pakistan Aeronautical Complex

General characteristics

* Crew: 1
* Length: 14.0 m [74] (45.9 ft)
* Wingspan: 9.45 m (including 2 wingtip missiles) [74] (31 ft)
* Height: 4.77 m (15 ft 8 in)
* Wing area: 24.4 m&#178; [74] (263 ft&#178
* Empty weight: 6,411 kg (14,134 lb)
* Loaded weight: 9,100 kg including 2&#215; wing-tip mounted air-to-air missiles [6][75] (20,062 lb)
* Max takeoff weight: 12,700 kg [75] (28,000 lb)
* Powerplant: 1&#215; Klimov RD-93 turbofan
o Dry thrust: 49.4 kN [2][8] (11,106 lbf)
o Thrust with afterburner: 84.4 kN [2][76] (18,973 lbf)
* G-limit: +8.5 g [2]
* Internal Fuel Capacity: 2300 kg (5,130 lb) [6]

Performance

* Maximum speed: Mach 1.8 [6][35] (1,191 knots, 2,205 kph)
* Combat radius: 1,352 km [2] (840 mi)
* Ferry range: 3,000 km [8] (2,175 mi)
* Service ceiling: 16,700 m [8] (54,790 ft)
* Thrust/weight: 0.99 [2][6]

Armament

* Guns: 1&#215; 23 mm GSh-23-2 twin-barrel cannon (can be replaced with 30 mm GSh-30-2)
* Hardpoints: 7 in total (4&#215; under-wing, 2&#215; wing-tip, 1&#215; under-fuselage) with a capacity of 3,629 kg (8,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance,
* Rockets: 57 mm, 90 mm unguided rocket pods [78]
* Missiles:
o Air-to-air missiles:
+ Short range: AIM-9L/M, PL-5E, PL-9C
+ Beyond visual range: PL-12 / SD-10
o Air-to-surface missiles:
+ Anti-radiation missiles
+ Anti-ship missiles: AM-39 Exocet
+ Cruise missiles: Ra'ad ALCM
* Bombs:
o Unguided bombs:
+ Mk-82, Mk-84 general purpose bombs
+ Matra Durandal anti-runway bomb
+ CBU-100/Mk-20 Rockeye anti-armour cluster bomb
o Precision guided munitions (PGM):
+ GBU-10, GBU-12, LT-2 laser-guided bombs
+ H-2, H-4 electro-optically guided,[7] LS-6 satellite-guided glide bombs [77]
+ Satellite-guided bombs [7]
* Others:
o Up to 3 external fuel drop-tanks (1&#215; under-fuselage 800 litres, 2&#215; under-wing 800/1100 litres each) for extended range/loitering time

Avionics

* NRIET KLJ-7 multi-mode fire-control radar [49]
* NVG compatible glass cockpit [6]
* Helmet Mounted Sights/Display (HMS/D)
* Infra-Red Search and Track (IRST)
* Externally mounted avionics pods:
o Self-protection radar jammer pod
o Day/night laser designator targeting pod
o Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) pod​


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## Black Widow

Zabaniya said:


> Bangladesh won't be able to afford SU-35 anytime soon. Procuring the increasingly expensive F-35s is merely a pipe dream.



Agree with you brother, and more over BD don't need Heavy fighters. Heavy fighter's maintainance, operation are costly and per sorty time is more. 

If BD can get cheaper F16s, It will be best deal for you ppl. F16 still a very good platform. 
F16, Grippen, FC1, LCA are good choice for BD. MiG21 is not a good choice. MiG21 is Obsolete now. 

But what I see here is BD is purchasing these MiG21 to maintain the depleting fleet. I am sure that some of old MiG21s are going to retire now and BD want to replace it. Its good move. 

But when come new procurement, I suggest go for western machines (F16 or grippen), they are class apart.


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## Zabaniyah

Black Widow said:


> Agree with you brother, and more over BD don't need Heavy fighters. Heavy fighter's maintainance, operation are costly and per sorty time is more.
> 
> If BD can get cheaper F16s, It will be best deal for you ppl. F16 still a very good platform.
> F16, Grippen, FC1, LCA are good choice for BD. MiG21 is not a good choice. MiG21 is Obsolete now.
> 
> But what I see here is BD is purchasing these MiG21 to maintain the depleting fleet. I am sure that some of old MiG21s are going to retire now and BD want to replace it. Its good move.
> 
> But when come new procurement, I suggest go for western machines (F16 or grippen), they are class apart.



Bangladesh used to operate MiG-21s. They were retired back in 1999. 

I've often recommended F-16s, it's a good choice for BAF. Gripen is good, but expensive.

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## Major Shaitan Singh

*People are forgetting about B'desh MiG 29 UB*


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## Black Widow

Zabaniya said:


> Bangladesh used to operate MiG-21s. They were retired back in 1999.
> I've often recommended F-16s, it's a good choice for BAF. Gripen is good, but expensive.



Looks like we are on the same note. By MiG21 I meant F7 (Derivative or developed from MiG21). 



Major Shaitan Singh said:


> *People are forgetting about B'desh MiG 29 UB*



No one is forgetting it, But I think BDAF use it for Air-superiority role (India too use MiG29 for the same role). BDAF is looking for replacing old F7s (may be immediately) with some cost effective measure. F7s are used as point defense role. 

In future if BDAF will look to replace MiG29(Air Superiority) they may go for F16 BLK60+, EFT, Su35BM, Grippen or some 5th Gen fighter. If they will replace F7s(point defense) they may go for F16 (Lower block), LCA, FC1.


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## eastwatch

Zabaniya said:


> They wanted a 'stop gap' for the A-5s with cheap planes. And the F-7 was the answer  JF-17 would have been more expensive, even though it is technically superior. Also, because of Hasina



I do not think, Hasina would have been a problem. BAF could have chosen FC1 fighter planes directly from China if it wanted to do so. JF-17 and FC1 are almost same. But, as you have said, BAF wanted to buy F-7BGI as a stop gap measure.

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## eastwatch

Zabaniya said:


> Bangladesh won't be able to afford SU-35 anytime soon. Procuring the increasingly expensive F-35s is merely a pipe dream.



Look, this year BD has made quite a purchase to make BN strong. BD also is buying land-based air defence system, self-propelled howitzers and many others for BA. It is again buying one sq. of F-7BGI planes. All these require dollar money. This may be one reason why our foreign currency reserve is going down.

Only five years ago it was unimaginable for BD to purchase so many hundreds of millions worth of military hardwares from abroad. BD economy is projected to be rising @7% per anum. In the next 10 years BD's GDP will be almost double of what is today. So, under the changed situation it may be possible to buy something that we cannot dream of today.

BD is certainly looking for the most sophisticated 4.5+ generation fighter planes in the future. There is no doubt about it. The present policy is to strengthen the BN and BA. After this, it will go after big purchase for the BAF. This is what I believe. Our airforce Chief also talked about it in London. However, he cannot be expected to be very frank about the sensitive defence matter in a foreign country, when we are still a 3rd world country.

---------- Post added at 12:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------




usama waqas said:


> How u can think that Americans will give u F 35 and Russians will give u Su 35 , wat u think after 5years your budget can afford such expensive planes?



BAF does not need 6 sqs. of any of these planes. One or two sqs. would suffice. I think, our economy will allow us to buy those planes if the selling countries agree to it. But, anyway, it is all in the dreams. USA is certainly ready to sell its F-16 planes, but which block I do not know. F-35 could be too expensive for us. And, US may not supply this plane to a country which is not its strategic ally. For example, US has agreed to sell this plane to Japan.

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## eastwatch

Black Widow said:


> In future if BDAF will look to replace MiG29(Air Superiority) they may go for F16 BLK60+, EFT, Su35BM, Grippen or some 5th Gen fighter. If they will replace F7s(point defense) they may go for F16 (Lower block), LCA, FC1.



BD is a poor country. It cannot afford to replace all its fleets. For now, it wants to replace only its A-5s with F-7BGIs. In a few years time BAF will enlarge its fleet with purchase of 2 sq. of 4.5+ generation fighters. Both F-7BGIs and Mig-29s are not supposed to be replaced at that point.


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## Major Shaheb

F-7MG standard munition:


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## Major Shaheb

BAF A-5C in action:


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## iMohammed

Hey, I am kinda noob at this. Can anyone give a brief intro for BD Air Force. 
present Strength and future goals (like maintaining parity with neighboring countries)


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## Major Shaheb

Missiles of BAF:




































---------- Post added at 01:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:00 AM ----------

BAF SAR Helicopter in action:


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## Major Shaheb

BAF Mig-29SE:


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## Major Shaheb

*For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
*

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## TopCat

As JF-17 is nothing but a F-7 then BD made the right choice of choosing the most advance derivatives of F-7BGI for less money.


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## Emmie

iajdani said:


> As JF-17 is nothing but a F-7 then BD made the right choice of choosing the most advance derivatives of F-7BGI for less money.



I must appreciate your decision for choosing a third generation aircraft over a fourth generation aircraft...

And in one line, Design of JF-17 has nothing to do with design of F7...

---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 AM ----------




Major Shaheb said:


> *For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
> *



Major Sahib now prove what you have stated...

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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> As JF-17 is nothing but a F-7 then BD made the right choice of choosing the most advance derivatives of F-7BGI for less money.



    man you made my night


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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> *For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
> *



why not those poor who dreaming for f-16 jf-17 j-10 and there poor gov looking for 50 years old world weakest junk third gen fighter which nations throw in garbage now ?


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## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> *For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
> *



In china, Nobody consider that JF17 can be a J7's variant...your pic may meaning refer to JF17's plan came from SUPER-7.but the design of jf17 had changed from SUPER-7 since the second cooperation

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## Major Shaheb

Emmie said:


> I must appreciate your decision for choosing a third generation aircraft over a fourth generation aircraft...
> 
> And in one line, Design of JF-17 has nothing to do with design of F7...
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:50 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Major Sahib now prove what you have stated...



*Global Security: Reports:*

It is widely reported that the FC-1 is a continuation of the "MiG-33 [R33]" program developed in the 1980s. The Russian company Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau, which designs all MIG series of aircraft, sold the design of MIG-33 to the China and Pakistan. *This report is the source of considerable confusion, and indeed some rather fanciful speculation.* The so-called MiG-33 design used in conjunction with the FC-1 program was apparently a the poorly attested "Product 33" lightweight single-engine project of the mid-1980s. A decade later, the MiG-33 nomenclature was briefly associated with the much larger twin-engine Mig-29M. This confused history has led to observations that the "FC-1 features air inlets on the lateral sides of the fuselage rather than the ventral inlets of the MiG-33. ... the most apparent modifications to the MiG-33 design is the repositioning of the ventral fins from the engine compartment..." These supposed modifications to the mid-90s MiG-33 design actually reflect the fact that the FC-1 has no design relationship to the MiG-33 [MiG-29M].

*In July 2003 it was reported that the "SUPER-7" fighter jet was ready to take its maiden flight*, although a detailed timetable was not released. China's Super-7 Fighter completed its taxiing test on July 03, 2003 at a test ground of Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC). As one of the eight major ground tests that must be completed before test flight, the taxiing test is aimed at trying the correctness of the design of electricity supply system, as well as signal connections between the electricity supply system and other external systems so as to provide important data to guarantee a successful first fly. Leiqiang, deputy director of the Chengdu Flight Group's trial flight department under the Chinese Air Force, said on Tuesday he will carry out the maiden flight task. On the day of the first flight, China Central Television (CCTV) will dispatch a special report group to broadcast the whole flight live. Leiqiang, also a "SUPER-7" pilot, and Yangwei, the jet's designer, who is also regarded as the father of "SUPER-7," will be featured on the CCTV program "Face to Face." On 25 August 2003 the FC-1 airplane carried on the initial flight. It flews 17 minutes before it returned to the airport. The serial production of the aircraft was to begin by January 2006. 


*Wikipedia:*

*In 1999, Pakistan and China signed the contract to jointly develop the FC-1/Super 7*. Initial difficulties in acquiring an avionics and radar package from Europe led to many problems, which was solved in 2001, when design of the airframe was "de-coupled" from the avionics. In 2003, the maiden flight of the first prototype occurred in China. *The Pakistani designation "Super-7", meanwhile, were replaced with "JF-17"*. Later test flights with a modified design occurred in 2006. Deliveries to the PAF for further flight testing and evaluation began in 2007[11] and the aircraft's first public aerial display took place that year in Islamabad. The PAF officially inducted its first JF-17 squadron, No. 26 Squadron, on 18 February 2010 with fourteen aircraft.

*Defense Industry Daily: Reports:*

*Sino Defense* reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 &#8216;Xiaolong&#8217; has a long history. The site recalls that China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman in 1986 to *modernise its J-7 fighter (MiG-21 copy) under the &#8220;Super-7&#8221; upgrade project*, with US and British firms competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was canceled after the Tienanmen Square massacre, but *Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation managed to continue the program with its own resources, and the project was eventually re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1)*.

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## idune

Major Shaheb said:


> *For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
> *


 
Wiki, 2003 GS report and bdmil are your sources, that tells lot about your depth. Perhaps you could tell us what is the evolution path for F7 series? BAF bought these F7 as stop gap for replacing A5. Are you suggesting these will fulfill purpose of fourth generation aircraft?


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## Avisheik

Major Shaheb said:


> *For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
> *



so what if jf17 is a derivative of f7? It is still superior than a f7.


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## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> *Global Security: Reports:*
> 
> It is widely reported that the FC-1 is a continuation of the "MiG-33 [R33]" program developed in the 1980s. The Russian company Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau, which designs all MIG series of aircraft, sold the design of MIG-33 to the China and Pakistan. *This report is the source of considerable confusion, and indeed some rather fanciful speculation.* The so-called MiG-33 design used in conjunction with the FC-1 program was apparently a the poorly attested "Product 33" lightweight single-engine project of the mid-1980s. A decade later, the MiG-33 nomenclature was briefly associated with the much larger twin-engine Mig-29M. This confused history has led to observations that the "FC-1 features air inlets on the lateral sides of the fuselage rather than the ventral inlets of the MiG-33. ... the most apparent modifications to the MiG-33 design is the repositioning of the ventral fins from the engine compartment..." These supposed modifications to the mid-90s MiG-33 design actually reflect the fact that the FC-1 has no design relationship to the MiG-33 [MiG-29M].
> 
> *In July 2003 it was reported that the "SUPER-7" fighter jet was ready to take its maiden flight*, although a detailed timetable was not released. China's Super-7 Fighter completed its taxiing test on July 03, 2003 at a test ground of Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC). As one of the eight major ground tests that must be completed before test flight, the taxiing test is aimed at trying the correctness of the design of electricity supply system, as well as signal connections between the electricity supply system and other external systems so as to provide important data to guarantee a successful first fly. Leiqiang, deputy director of the Chengdu Flight Group's trial flight department under the Chinese Air Force, said on Tuesday he will carry out the maiden flight task. On the day of the first flight, China Central Television (CCTV) will dispatch a special report group to broadcast the whole flight live. Leiqiang, also a "SUPER-7" pilot, and Yangwei, the jet's designer, who is also regarded as the father of "SUPER-7," will be featured on the CCTV program "Face to Face." On 25 August 2003 the FC-1 airplane carried on the initial flight. It flews 17 minutes before it returned to the airport. The serial production of the aircraft was to begin by January 2006.
> 
> 
> *Wikipedia:*
> 
> *In 1999, Pakistan and China signed the contract to jointly develop the FC-1/Super 7*. Initial difficulties in acquiring an avionics and radar package from Europe led to many problems, which was solved in 2001, when design of the airframe was "de-coupled" from the avionics. In 2003, the maiden flight of the first prototype occurred in China. *The Pakistani designation "Super-7", meanwhile, were replaced with "JF-17"*. Later test flights with a modified design occurred in 2006. Deliveries to the PAF for further flight testing and evaluation began in 2007[11] and the aircraft's first public aerial display took place that year in Islamabad. The PAF officially inducted its first JF-17 squadron, No. 26 Squadron, on 18 February 2010 with fourteen aircraft.
> 
> *Defense Industry Daily: Reports:*
> 
> *Sino Defense* reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 &#8216;Xiaolong&#8217; has a long history. The site recalls that China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman in 1986 to *modernise its J-7 fighter (MiG-21 copy) under the &#8220;Super-7&#8221; upgrade project*, with US and British firms competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was canceled after the Tienanmen Square massacre, but *Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation managed to continue the program with its own resources, and the project was eventually re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1)*.


yes,JFT PT01 once called super-7.but it does not mean that the design of JFT come from J7.
JF-17 Deputychief engineer : PAF combat experience into the design of the jf17 - YouTube


the Deputy chief designer said that the design of JFT come from PAF's combat experience(mainly PAF's F16).he confirm JF17 is a undisputed 4gen (chinese 3rd)fighter in world,he denied the statement of that jf17 is a J7's variant.


The development course of JF17 THUNDER/ FC1 XIAOLONG - YouTube

this cctv interview of all chinese engineer on JF17 project,they also denied the statement of that jf17 is a J7's variant like the Deputy chief designer.indeed,bcz PAF was not satisfied with the original design of SUPER7,So CAC had to redesigned the aircraft . 
This is why super-7 was renamed JF17 after the first flight tests of JF17 PT01 in 2003 .The number&#8220;17&#8221;(>16) means that the new aircraft will beat USA's F16. Do you think a J7's variant can beat USA's F16.LOL.
btw,the real final version of J7 is guizhou JL9.however,JF17 is anything but J7's variant.

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## Zabaniyah

The Super-7 project took a different turn after the Western nations refused assistance. Hence, it became the FC-1 project. The JF-17 and F-7 do not have too much in common. Hell, they don't even cosmetically resemble one another.

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## rcrmj

initially Pakistan asked China to upgrade PAF's F-7 fleet, so CAC came up with the Super-7 with western parts and avionics, but due to the heavy sanctions and embargo the project stalled for several years.. later on Pakistan and China decided to do it with our own, so the project evolved into FC-1... Pakistan and China totaly redesigned the airframe with new specifications, so the techs involved in JF-17 has nothing to do with J-7 (F-7)

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## Major Shaheb

houshanghai said:


> yes,JFT PT01 once called super-7.but it does not mean that the design of JFT come from J7.
> JF-17 Deputychief engineer : PAF combat experience into the design of the jf17 - YouTube
> 
> 
> the Deputy chief designer said that the design of JFT come from PAF's combat experience(mainly PAF's F16).he confirm JF17 is a undisputed 4gen (chinese 3rd)fighter in world,he denied the statement of that jf17 is a J7's variant.
> 
> 
> The development course of JF17 THUNDER/ FC1 XIAOLONG - YouTube
> 
> this cctv interview of all chinese engineer on JF17 project,they also denied the statement of that jf17 is a J7's variant like the Deputy chief designer.indeed,bcz PAF was not satisfied with the original design of SUPER7,So CAC had to redesigned the aircraft .
> This is why super-7 was renamed JF17 after the first flight tests of JF17 PT01 in 2003 .The number&#8220;17&#8221;(>16) means that the new aircraft will beat USA's F16. Do you think a J7's variant can beat USA's F16.LOL.
> btw,the real final version of J7 is guizhou JL9.however,JF17 is anything but J7's variant.



Now, that's really clever. Can you tell me how many of us speak Chinese!?! If I go like that then I can put any video from you-tube where the speaker is talking *Chinese or Russian or Hibru* and write on top in *english* that JF-17 is the final derivative of F-22 raptor......lol hahahahahaahhhaaaa

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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Now, that's really clever. Can you tell me how many of us speak Chinese!?! If I go like that then I can put any video from you-tube where the speaker is talking *Chinese or Russian or Hibru* and write on top in *english* that *JF-17 is the final derivative of F-22 raptor......lol hahahahahaahhhaaaa*



Yeah, nice one troll. Go to the JF-17 forum here, and ask there yourself.


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## shuntmaster

Major Shaheb said:


> *For those souls who believe JF-17 is not a derivative of Chengdu J-7:
> *



The poster is in Chinese, which means the Chinese themselves are saying that FC-1/JF-17 Thundar is derived from F-7/MiG-21.
Also, the basic airframe of JF-17 is very similar to F-7


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## kobiraaz

why this Major Shaheb is too much anti 'jf-17'??? I have seen this disease is epidemic in india... But This is the first case in Bangal muluk! And why doesnt he contribute in other bangla threads except for F7bgi?

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## Zabaniyah

shuntmaster said:


> The poster is in Chinese, which means the Chinese themselves are saying that FC-1/JF-17 Thundar is derived from F-7/MiG-21.
> Also, the basic airframe of JF-17 is very similar to F-7



Can you mention one single thing of JF-17 that matches J-7? 

The JF-17 is a completely different design compared to the J-7. How can you say the basic air frame is the same considering that even the landing gear positioning and design do not match with each other?

They are completely different designs. Both inside and out. They have absolutely nothing in common.

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## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> Now, that's really clever. Can you tell me how many of us speak Chinese!?! If I go like that then I can put any video from you-tube where the speaker is talking *Chinese or Russian or Hibru* and write on top in *english* that JF-17 is the final derivative of F-22 raptor......lol hahahahahaahhhaaaa



sorry,china is never an English-speaking country. 
If you don't believe me, you can ask other chinese members about it












There is a hell difference between j7 and jf17.

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## Major Shaheb

*I'm not anti JF-17.* JF-17 is a good 4 generation fighter aircraft when compared with the 3rd generation fighter aircraft. However, when compared to other 4th generation aircraft it doesn't stand a chance. Our Pakistani friends are just keep on denying that fact and also the history of the JF-17. And, they want other country to do a mistake and buy JF-17 to compete against the true 4&4++ generation fighter aircraft. You may buy JF-17 to counter J-7, HAL Tejas, KFIR, FCK-1 but when your neighbors has Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and SU-30MKI you must plan to buy True 4/4++ generation fighter aircraft. So did BAF. The BAF has an ongoing plan to include 20-30 fighter aircraft (Under consideration: Mig-29CMT, F-16Block50/52+, JAS-39, SU-30MK) with in 10-15 years. A procurement of this type for a developing economy needs time. And to fill the gap of this 10-15yrs they have ordered for 16 F-7BGI @ $8.5mln/unit which shall within this 10-15 yrs work as replacement aircraft for the remaining 8F-7MB and 7 A5C both of which were introduced in BAF more than 30 years ago. JF-17 would cost $20mln which is too much for stop-gap aircraft. 

*Examples of true 4 generation fighter aircraft:*
Chengdu J-10, Shenyang J-11, Mikoyan MiG-29/MiG-29M, Mikoyan MiG-31, Sukhoi Su-27/Su-30, Sukhoi Su-33 (navy), Saab JAS 39 Gripen, Panavia Tornado ADV, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, F-15 Eagle, Mitsubishi F-2.

*Examples of true 4++ generation fighter aircraft:*
Mikoyan MiG-35, Sukhoi Su-35, Saab JAS 39 Gripen NG, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16 Block 60/62/MMRCA, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (navy), F-15SE Silent Eagle, 

*I would say JF-17, HAL Tejas, HESA Saeqeh, IAI Kfir (C.10 and C.12) are 3++ generation fighter aircraft. *

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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> *I'm not anti JF-17.* JF-17 is a good 4 generation fighter aircraft when compared with the 3rd generation fighter aircraft. H*owever, when compared to other 4th generation aircraft it doesn't stand a chance.* Our Pakistani friends are just keep on denying that fact and also the history of the JF-17.



Assuming that the JF-17 would be fully integrated, are you speaking from experience I assume? 



Major Shaheb said:


> And, they want other country to do a mistake and buy JF-17 to compete against the true 4&4++ generation fighter aircraft.



Since when did any country buy it? The JF-17 is not even fully integrated yet. 



Major Shaheb said:


> You may buy JF-17 to counter J-7, HAL Tejas, KFIR, FCK-1 but when your neighbors has Mig-29, Mirage-2000 and SU-30MKI you must plan to buy True 4/4++ generation fighter aircraft. So did BAF. The BAF has an ongoing plan to include 20-30 fighter aircraft (Under consideration: Mig-29CMT, F-16Block50/52+, JAS-39, SU-30MK) with in 10-15 years. A procurement of this type for a developing economy needs time. And to fill the gap of this 10-15yrs they have ordered for 16 F-7BGI @ $8.5mln/unit which shall within this 10-15 yrs work as replacement aircraft for the remaining 8F-7MB and 7 A5C both of which were introduced in BAF more than 30 years ago. JF-17 would cost $20mln which is too much for stop-gap aircraft.



Your point being? Your error was that *YOU* assumed that the JF-17 is a derivative of the F-7, which it isn't. 



Major Shaheb said:


> *Examples of true 4 generation fighter aircraft:*
> Chengdu J-10, Shenyang J-11, Mikoyan MiG-29/MiG-29M, Mikoyan MiG-31, Sukhoi Su-27/Su-30, Sukhoi Su-33 (navy), Saab JAS 39 Gripen, *Panavia Tornado ADV, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F/A-18 Hornet, F-15 Eagle, Mitsubishi F-2.*
> 
> *Examples of true 4++ generation fighter aircraft:*
> *Mikoyan MiG-35, Sukhoi Su-35, Saab JAS 39 Gripen NG, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon, F-16 Block 60/62/MMRCA, F/A-18E/F Super Hornet (navy), F-15SE Silent Eagle, *



What is that? A shopping list for Norway?



Major Shaheb said:


> *I would say JF-17, HAL Tejas, HESA Saeqeh, IAI Kfir (C.10 and C.12) are 3++ generation fighter aircraft. *



And factually incorrect.


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## Major Shaheb

houshanghai said:


> sorry,china is never an English-speaking country.
> If you don't believe me, you can ask other chinese members about it
> 
> There is a hell difference between j7 and jf17.





Please see the pic below and tell me if you dont see any similarity:


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## Major Shaheb

*Oh.....nooooo...... they look very much the same...... oh no.....it is a derivative of J-7..... can't believe it!!!!!!!!*


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## Zabaniyah

^^^^^JL-9.


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## Major Shaheb

JF-17 & JL-9 both had their maiden flight on 2003.


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## Emmie

Major Shaheb said:


> *Global Security: Reports:*
> 
> It is widely reported that the FC-1 is a continuation of the "MiG-33 [R33]" program developed in the 1980s. The Russian company Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau, which designs all MIG series of aircraft, sold the design of MIG-33 to the China and Pakistan. *This report is the source of considerable confusion, and indeed some rather fanciful speculation.* The so-called MiG-33 design used in conjunction with the FC-1 program was apparently a the poorly attested "Product 33" lightweight single-engine project of the mid-1980s. A decade later, the MiG-33 nomenclature was briefly associated with the much larger twin-engine Mig-29M. This confused history has led to observations that the "FC-1 features air inlets on the lateral sides of the fuselage rather than the ventral inlets of the MiG-33. ... the most apparent modifications to the MiG-33 design is the repositioning of the ventral fins from the engine compartment..." These supposed modifications to the mid-90s MiG-33 design actually reflect the fact that the FC-1 has no design relationship to the MiG-33 [MiG-29M].
> 
> *In July 2003 it was reported that the "SUPER-7" fighter jet was ready to take its maiden flight*, although a detailed timetable was not released. China's Super-7 Fighter completed its taxiing test on July 03, 2003 at a test ground of Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAC). As one of the eight major ground tests that must be completed before test flight, the taxiing test is aimed at trying the correctness of the design of electricity supply system, as well as signal connections between the electricity supply system and other external systems so as to provide important data to guarantee a successful first fly. Leiqiang, deputy director of the Chengdu Flight Group's trial flight department under the Chinese Air Force, said on Tuesday he will carry out the maiden flight task. On the day of the first flight, China Central Television (CCTV) will dispatch a special report group to broadcast the whole flight live. Leiqiang, also a "SUPER-7" pilot, and Yangwei, the jet's designer, who is also regarded as the father of "SUPER-7," will be featured on the CCTV program "Face to Face." On 25 August 2003 the FC-1 airplane carried on the initial flight. It flews 17 minutes before it returned to the airport. The serial production of the aircraft was to begin by January 2006.
> 
> 
> *Wikipedia:*
> 
> *In 1999, Pakistan and China signed the contract to jointly develop the FC-1/Super 7*. Initial difficulties in acquiring an avionics and radar package from Europe led to many problems, which was solved in 2001, when design of the airframe was "de-coupled" from the avionics. In 2003, the maiden flight of the first prototype occurred in China. *The Pakistani designation "Super-7", meanwhile, were replaced with "JF-17"*. Later test flights with a modified design occurred in 2006. Deliveries to the PAF for further flight testing and evaluation began in 2007[11] and the aircraft's first public aerial display took place that year in Islamabad. The PAF officially inducted its first JF-17 squadron, No. 26 Squadron, on 18 February 2010 with fourteen aircraft.
> 
> *Defense Industry Daily: Reports:*
> 
> *Sino Defense* reminds us that the JF-17/FC-1 &#8216;Xiaolong&#8217; has a long history. The site recalls that China signed a $550 million agreement with Grumman in 1986 to *modernise its J-7 fighter (MiG-21 copy) under the &#8220;Super-7&#8221; upgrade project*, with US and British firms competing to provide the engine and avionics. The project was canceled after the Tienanmen Square massacre, but *Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation managed to continue the program with its own resources, and the project was eventually re-branded as FC-1 (Fighter China-1)*.



Wait a second.... Paragraph one mentions JF-17 is a continuity of Mig-33...! Make up your mind 1st, is it continuity of J-7 or Mig-33?... And do read the entire stuff at first and then post excerpt... I help you with that. BTW JFT has nothing to do with Mig-33.



> It is widely reported that the FC-1 is a continuation of the "MiG-33 [R33]" program developed in the 1980s. The Russian company Mikoyan OKB Design Bureau, which designs all MIG series of aircraft, sold the design of MIG-33 to the China and Pakistan. *This report is the source of considerable confusion, and indeed some rather fanciful speculation. The so-called MiG-33 design used in conjunction with the FC-1 program was apparently a the poorly attested "Product 33" lightweight single-engine project of the mid-1980s. A decade later, the MiG-33 nomenclature was briefly associated with the much larger twin-engine Mig-29M. This confused history has led to observations that the "FC-1 features air inlets on the lateral sides of the fuselage rather than the ventral inlets of the MiG-33. ... the most apparent modifications to the MiG-33 design is the repositioning of the ventral fins from the engine compartment..." These supposed modifications to the mid-90s MiG-33 design actually reflect the fact that the FC-1 has no design relationship to the MiG-33 [MiG-29M].*



Last three paragraphs mention same stuff....Yeah, project started as super 7 but later on the design undergone a complete alteration to meet PAF requirements, PAF wanted something like F-16... JFT inlets are DSI and quite redolent of F-18, tail is more like f-16, it has connard like leading edge root extension (LERX) like F-18.... Canopy, hard points, nose, vertical stabiliser in short everything is different... I have no idea what you want to prove by making JFT a derivative of J-7!

Let me suggest you something, do read the articles in their entirety before taking excerpts from them, just don't extract your favourite part... You will never face embarrassment this way... All the reference you posted had a lot different to say pertaining redesigning of JFT..

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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> JF-17 & JL-9 both had their maiden flight on 2003.



So?

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## Major Shaheb

As BAF is considering 4 fighter aircraft contender so Im posting some pics of the 4:

Mig-29CMT:

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## kobiraaz

^ can you compare between CMT and present Bangladesh variants ? If possible also include indian Mig29..


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## TopCat

@Zabanya use your common sense. I totally agree with Major Saheb. F7->J7->JF17.


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## Emmie

iajdani said:


> @Zabanya use your common sense. *I totally agree with Major Saheb. F7->J7->JF17.*





Edited this part... Use signs smartly please..

Kindly elaborate with your knowledge how these 3 are same, in fact 2... I wonder if you can do it technically?..


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## houshanghai

iajdani said:


> @Zabanya use your common sense. I totally agree with Major Saheb. F7->J7->JF17.



JF17 is only in connection with project of J7, not design















well,
if JF17 is a MIG21/J7&#8216;s variant,then can I say:"all F16 F18 MIG29 are a MIG21's variant?"lol

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## TopCat

Emmie said:


> Edited this part... Use signs smartly please..
> 
> Kindly elaborate with your knowledge how these 3 are same, in fact 2... I wonder if you can do it technically?..


 
I did not say all thse plane are similar. I said all of them derived from F7


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## DESERT FIGHTER

iajdani said:


> I did not say all thse plane are similar. I said all of them derived from F7



You cant just derive a new jet from another...

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## Emmie

iajdani said:


> I did not say all thse plane are similar. I said all of them derived from F7



If you don't know then please note a fact that J-7 and F-7 are same, F-7 is export version of J-7... Plus, last 3 pages contain info that isolate JF-17 from J-7... If you still don't agree to that info then please prove your point technically.. What exactly is similar between JF-17 and F-7? Letter J and F or 7 of 17?

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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> If you don't know then please note a fact that J-7 and F-7 are same, F-7 is export version of J-7... Plus, last 3 pages contain info that isolate JF-17 from J-7... If you still don't agree to that info then please prove your point technically.. What exactly is similar between JF-17 and F-7? Letter J and F or 7 of 17?



yaar what they proove to you? design engine radar avionces weapons whole program told a story . but as they buy F-7 in 2012 now they may wanna hide behind something thats all i can say you think major deserve to be reply when he bring wiki and other 3rd rate sources with few images from here and there? he need more 5 years then we give him importance and time to reply him . choro na bhai jee .

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> @Zabanya use your common sense. I totally agree with Major Saheb. F7->J7->JF17.





iajdani said:


> I did not say all thse plane are similar. I said all of them derived from F7



No, it is not a matter of common sense. It's you who's not informed. 

The Super-7 project took a different turn after the Western nations refused China access to technology. This Super-7 was originally based on the F-7. 

And that turn lead to the development of the JF-17. And I am sure you didn't know that some design and test data were taken from the Soviet MiG-33 project.

MiG-33:






> Although work on Product 33 became well advanced, with extensive wind-tunnel testing was conducted on the design, it was not ordered due to the the Soviet Air Force (VVS) dropped its support for concept about 1986 after a reorientation towards multi-role aircraft - the lightweight Product 33 could be used for close air combat only. The basic Product 33 design was offered by Mikoyan to China as the FC-1 fighter. However, the FC-1 is not a direct derivative of the Product 33 design, and while the wings may reflect Soviet aerodynamic data, the fuselage and air inlets reprsent an entirely rather different configuration.


MiG-33 FULCRUM



> The development of this fighter, the improved copy of Soviet MIG-33 (which R&D was terminated due to absence of money at the beginning of 1990s), started at Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corp., in 1994-95.
> 
> More exactly, MIG-33 designers resumed this terminated project in Moscow under supervision of experts from Chengdu city and with financing from PLA. In 1995, Chengdu Corp. purchased 100 units advanced RD-93 jet engines, for the future FC-1, at Klimov Aircraft Corp. in St. Petersburg.
> 
> In 1997-98, Pakistani Air Forces joined this project; Pakistan provided significant part of R&D financing and is obliged to purchase one half of the future FC-1 production. Despite all the efforts, the project dealt with a lot of problems, and only at the beginning of 2001 did it enter the last stage.


Chinese Airshow a Hit With the Military 

Basically, the MiG-33 had a very similar body to the F-16 but it's cockpit design was very similar to the MiG-29. And there was in fact one active prototype of that. 

As I said before, the F-7's and JF-17's landing-gear positions and design are completely different. The radar and EW suite on the JF-17 are far more advanced than that of the F-7. 

I never see you in JF-17 discussions here, or any military-related ones. Please do some research before making naive statements.



Imran Khan said:


> yaar what they proove to you? design engine radar avionces weapons whole program told a story . but as they buy F-7 in 2012 now they may wanna hide behind something thats all i can say you think major deserve to be reply when he bring wiki and other 3rd rate sources with few images from here and there? he need more 5 years then we give him importance and time to reply him . choro na bhai jee .



Some people like to undermine the JF-17 project over very petty things, and because it has the 'Pakistani connection'. 

Some people say it's a 'derivative' of the F-7. Some say it's a copy of the MiG-33. 

They do not understand how projects are carried out, how knowledge is shared and distributed, how knowledge is lost and found, how key technologies differentiate the product and how politics can potentially influence a military project. 

Those people's minds are blanketed by ignorance, and they're proud of that ignorance.

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## TopCat

Zabaniya said:


> No, it is not a matter of common sense. It's you who's not informed.
> 
> The Super-7 project took a different turn after the Western nations refused China access to technology. This Super-7 was originally based on the F-7.
> 
> And that turn lead to the development of the JF-17. And I am sure you didn't know that some design and test data were taken from the Soviet MiG-33 project.
> 
> MiG-33:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> MiG-33 FULCRUM
> 
> 
> Chinese Airshow a Hit With the Military
> 
> Basically, the MiG-33 had a very similar body to the F-16 but it's cockpit design was very similar to the MiG-29. And there was in fact one active prototype of that.
> 
> As I said before, the F-7's and JF-17's landing-gear positions and design are completely different. The radar and EW suite on the JF-17 are far more advanced than that of the F-7.
> 
> I never see you in JF-17 discussions here, or any military-related ones. Please do some research before making naive statements.
> 
> 
> 
> Some people like to undermine the JF-17 project over very petty things, and because it has the 'Pakistani connection'.
> 
> Some people say it's a 'derivative' of the F-7. Some say it's a copy of the MiG-33.
> 
> They do not understand how projects are carried out, how knowledge is shared and distributed, how knowledge is lost and found, how key technologies differentiate the product and how politics can potentially influence a military project.
> 
> Those people's minds are blanketed by ignorance, and they're proud of that ignorance.




ok lab lab la...

After so many inclusions why the hell it still look like a F-7. 






I am not undermining JF-17 but you guys undermining F-7 which is very unfair. I *belive F-7 still the best platform of its class China ever built * and were adored all over the world.


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## MiG-21

This is.. this is incredible! Look at the wing. Look at the fuckin evolution of those wings!! That wing was there even before the west pulled the plug. Not to mention the side intakes. So JF-17 is indeed a Super J-7. *Proprietary Trade secret* Indeed!!! Thank you Grumman! Major Saheb is right.






If you post this in any neutral forum, anyone with 2 brain cells will have to accept your argument that JF-17 is a heavily modified F-7. Major Bhai, you've won.

After the west pulled out, there were a few modifications afterwards ofcourse, but there is no denying who is it's grandfather.

The chinese have known to heavily modify the plans of their planes. F-6 and A-5 fantan are their first examples. They slapped another engine into an f-7 and called it an F-8. Even now in the JF-17, the central engine housing fuselage to cockpit reeks of the MiG-21.

If the chinese can manage to add *2 ENGINES!!!!* to the MiG-21, who is to stop them from making a JF-17 out of a MiG-21. Compared to the insanely difficult 2 Engine architecture, JF-17 is a child's play. Not to mention China even had Grumman to help them out in the evolution.

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> ok lab lab la...
> 
> After so many inclusions why the hell it still look like a F-7.
> 
> I am not undermining JF-17 but you guys undermining F-7 which is very unfair. I *belive F-7 still the best platform of its class China ever built * and were adored all over the world.



F-7 is a copy of the MiG-21. 

Saying that the JF-17 is a derivative of the F-7 or worst, a 'copy' is merely hearsay. 



MiG-21 said:


> This is.. this is incredible! Look at the wing. Look at the fuckin evolution of those wings!! That wing was there even before the west pulled the plug. Not to mention the side intakes. So JF-17 is indeed a Super J-7. *Proprietary Trade secret* Indeed!!! Thank you Grumman! Major Saheb is right.



Grumman cancelled the deal after the Tienanmen incident.

Read up some sources before commenting


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## Major Shaheb

Sukhoi Su-30MK:


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## Zabaniyah

MiG-21 said:


> what the hell? THE PLANS WERE STILL WITH THE CHINESE!!! Grumman left, but THE SUPER-7 PLANS WERE WITH THE CHINESE! CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND ENGLISH?



Only you are ignoring the fact that it was renamed FC-1 and took a completely different direction. That's why I asked you to read the damn thread. 

Super-7 was dead after Grumman left the project. 



> The FC-1 traces its origin to the Super-7 fighter programme, a joint Chengdu-Grumman development project worth US$500 million to upgrade the Chinese J-7 (MiG-21) fighter. Proposed upgrades included removing the fighter's nose air intake and replacing it with a &#8216;solid&#8217; nose with two lateral air intakes, as well as upgrading the fighter with Western-made avionics and engine. *The development agreement was signed in 1986, but the programme was cancelled in 1990, in the wake of the cooling political relations between China and the West, as well as in response to a 40% increase in the cost of the project.*
> 
> *Chengdu continued the Super-7 project independently and re-branded the design as FC-1. In 1999, China and Pakistan concluded a joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1 fighter.* Under the agreement, the programme was to be jointly funded by the China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan, each with 50% stake of the joint venture. The total cost of the development programme was estimated to be US$150 million. *Russian Mikoyan Aero-Science Production Group (MASPG) reportedly provided some assistance in the development of the aircraft*


FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com



> The development of FC-1 began in 1991 and by the mid-90s it was in a detailed design phase. By that time two partial forward and rear fuselage mockups had been completed. Plans for a two seat version were also in progress. Design help had come in shape of Mikoyan who also provided a team of engineers to CAC. The new plane therefore has a resemblance to the canceled Mig-33, a design developed in the early 1980s for a lightweight dog-fight aircraft. The FC-1 however, differs from the original Mig-33 in its adaptation of twin side-mounted air intakes.


PAC Super 7/ FC-1 fighter

Now, wait till people start saying that the JF-17 is a 'copy' of the MiG-33

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## MiG-21

Why are you proving my point? They continued with the Super J-7 foundation after grumman left. The project was re-branded/re-named to FC-1.

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

lol.. looks like the mods didn't like the batman joke.
But I hope posting pics isn't against the rules.


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## Zabaniyah

MiG-21 said:


> Why are you proving my point? They continued with the Super J-7 foundation after grumman left. The project was re-branded/re-named to FC-1.



Yeah, nice try 

The key fact is that they took a different direction with respect to the entire project.

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## MiG-21

Nice try?? NICE TRY? That's what Major sahib is shouting his lungs out for 7 pages. What were you thinking I was saying in my previous posts?

Ofcourse they took a different direction and concentrated on aerodynamics this time with initial help from Grumman, or else they would have ended up with a 3 engined MiG-21, or maybe even 4. Chinese are scary when it comes to modifying MiG-21.


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> Only you are ignoring the fact that it was renamed FC-1 and took a completely different direction. That's why I asked you to read the damn thread.
> 
> Super-7 was dead after Grumman left the project.
> 
> 
> FC-1 (JF-17 Thunder) Multirole Fighter Aircraft - SinoDefence.com
> 
> 
> PAC Super 7/ FC-1 fighter
> 
> Now, wait till people start saying that the JF-17 is a 'copy' of the MiG-33






People, Just ignore. They have not only forgotten their JF-17 had root (J-7) but also denying that they had any. They did already compared with 4+ generation aircraft and If things goes like this soon they will compare JF-17 with F-16 Block 60/62. 

Just ignore....con't teach someone who don't want to learn. Just ignore them. 

Lets talk about the 4 contenders BAF is considering as their next (2021) Fighter.

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## Zabaniyah

MiG-21 said:


> That's what Major sahib is shouting his lungs out for 7 pages. What were you thinking I was saying in my previous posts?



And based on what? Mere hearsay? 

The bottom line is, the F-7 and JF-17 designs have nothing in common. Not even the landing gear layout and design are the same. 

Discuss the matter with seniors and think tanks over at the JF-17 forum if you are still in doubt. 



MiG-21 said:


> Ofcourse they took a different direction and concentrated on aerodynamics this time with initial help from Grumman, or else they would have ended up with a 3 engined MiG-21, or maybe even 4. Chinese are scary when it comes to modifying MiG-21. Never underestimate them.



  



Major Shaheb said:


> People, Just ignore. They have not only forgotten their JF-17 had root (J-7) but also denying that they had any. *They did already compared with 4+ generation aircraft and If things goes like this soon they will compare JF-17 with F-16 Block 60/62. *



In a word: no. 

JF-17 blk 1 systems and weapons integration will complete within April/June next year. After that, blk 2 development will take place. 

The project, had roots in the Super-7 project. The final product design however is still completely different from the F-7.

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## Major Sam

Major Shaheb said:


> People, Just ignore. They have not only forgotten their JF-17 had root (J-7) but also denying that they had any. They did already compared with 4+ generation aircraft and If things goes like this soon they will compare JF-17 with F-16 Block 60/62.
> 
> Just ignore....con't teach someone who don't want to learn. Just ignore them.
> 
> Lets talk about the 4 contenders BAF is considering as their next (2021) Fighter.



O sorry we forgot maybe chinese took help from you for deriving JF 17 from F-7... hey guys now plz believe him


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## Major Shaheb

JAS-39 Gripen:


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## Imran Khan

now please someone told me waht the hell these SU-30 and jas grippen doing here? we seen these images more then our faces in mirror

*please come back on 

Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter*


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## Emmie

Major Shaheb said:


> People, Just ignore. They have not only forgotten their JF-17 had root (J-7) but also denying that they had any. They did already compared with 4+ generation aircraft and If things goes like this soon they will compare JF-17 with F-16 Block 60/62.
> 
> *Just ignore....con't teach someone who don't want to learn. Just ignore them.*
> 
> Lets talk about the 4 contenders BAF is considering as their next (2021) Fighter.



Its actually a line for you.... So far you have not been able to provide any substantiate proof to support your claim.. Grow up and try to learn with reality... Not everything drifts the way you think..


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## Major Shaheb




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## Imran Khan

leave every thing aside lets back on topic and discuss this beauty which is bought by BD. *JF-17 is not an issue here *

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## Emmie

@ Zabanya.... I wonder if you could elaborate the exact status of Mig-29SE BAF is operating.. Sorry, question is bit of topic..


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## Imran Khan



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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> *now please someone told me waht the hell these SU-30 and jas grippen doing here?* we seen these images more then our faces in mirror
> 
> *please come back on
> 
> Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter*



*For everyone:* Just see how they forget the root. This is a great example. Mr. Imran Khan is asking me about su-30/gripen when the opening post (Post-1 as attached under) clearly mentions what they are doing here. Mr. Imran Khan, Just using rough language you can not prove your point. You can not change your root.


Post - 1: Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter

According to Russian military messenger, Nov. 18 reported that the Bangladesh Air Force Ziao Rahman recently in London at the '2011 International Fighter conference,' said China has ordered the country's 16 new F-7BGI light aircraft will be delivered beginning in 1012, but he did not disclose other details about the transaction information.

Analysts pointed out that these F-7BGI may be used to replace Bashar Meng Air Force Base (located near Dhaka Mon 21 Squadron equipped with the old-fashioned Chinese-made A-5C attack aircraft.

Meng said the Air Force Commander, F-7BGI China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group Company F-7-based research and development of new models, equipped with improved airborne equipment, including 'hand throttle lever' (ie 'hands on the bar 'control device, three multi-function cockpit displays and a HUD. The machine also has GPS system for navigation bomb throwing ability due to Bangladesh's orders, the legendary MiG-21 fighter production will continue to 2012(Free Paper: Free News, China News, U.S. News, Provides newspaper for all industries).

Bangladesh Air Force in 2006, equipped with 16 F-7BG fighters and four FT-7BG coach - fighters, while in the earlier 1989-2000 period, Meng also received the Air Force installed 16 F-7MB fighter and 8 FT-7MB trainer aircraft - fighters these fighters (now there are 23 still in service were single-seat fighter and trainer aircraft were currently eight equipment in the MENG 5th and 35th Air Force squadron.

Meng also said the Air Force commander, purchasing F-7BGI is the new generation of fighter aircraft in the Air Force before the transitional measures adopted in the next 13-15 years, *20-32 Meng Air Force plans to buy new fighter aircraft, and most promising candidate models, including the U.S. F-16 and Russia's MiG-29SMT. In addition, Sweden's JAS-39 and Russian Su-30 may also participate in the competition*. It is reported that Meng Air Force also plans to purchase in 1999 of its 10 MiG-29 fighter jets to modernize modification, and will also purchase a new trainer to replace the existing fleet of old L-39. 
Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter - News


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## Imran Khan

ok yaar hamari jaan chor ab . *JF-17 IS COPY OF FT-5*

COME ON TOPIC YOU BUY 16 F-7PG say something abut them please leave others .


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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> ok yaar hamari jaan chor ab . *JF-17 IS COPY OF FT-5*
> 
> COME ON TOPIC YOU BUY 16 *F-7PG* say something abut them please leave others .



I think you meant F-7BGI.


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## MiG-21

> And based on what? Mere hearsay?
> The bottom line is, the F-7 and JF-17 designs have nothing in common. Not even the landing gear layout and design are the same. Discuss the matter with seniors and think tanks over at the JF-17 forum if you are still in doubt.


Hearsay? He posted the evolution pic, and chinese sources which had the JF-17's MiG-21 genes plotted. What more do you want? I never said JF-17 and MiG-21 have the same abilities, but to claim JF-17 didn't have its lineage to the MiG-21 is pure sshit. 
The correct sentence would be, JF-17 is a different aircraft when compared to its grand-pappy the MiG-21. That's it.

Now comes the really important part, does the JF-17 improve on the MiG-21? It does in some areas, but it doesn't in some.

It beats the MiG-21 in -
Range
Fuel Consumption
Bigger Radar
Hardpoints
Payload
Low Speed Aerodynamics
Thrust to Weight Ratio

MiG-21 beats JF-17 in-
Speed
Thrust to Weight Ratio(in scramble-intercept mode)
Cost
High Speed Aerodynamics
G-limit

Unknowns-
AoA - 26(28 recoverable) for MiG. Unknown for JF-17

It does well from what I can see. Your egos so huge you can't accept anything you feel is hurting this Chinese made fighter?



>


Now I know how Jay Leno feels.


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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> I think you meant F-7BGI.



i never see utter rubbish like you ever bloody BGI come in world 6 years letter from jf-17 you idiot

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## Imran Khan

khuda ganjy ko nakhoon nhi deta 

i must say think god you have no falcons thunders flankers in service otherwise you must eat us alive with trolling . you have 8 birds in hand which can really fight and you are doing all this **** .imagine you guys have 5sqn of f-16 you will say UAE block-60 are not worthy in front of F-16BG


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## z9-ec

Major Shaheb said:


> *For everyone:* Just see how they forget the root. This is a great example. Mr. Imran Khan is asking me about su-30/gripen when the opening post (Post-1 as attached under) clearly mentions what they are doing here. Mr. Imran Khan, Just using rough language you can not prove your point. You can not change your root.


 
We don't give two &*#%s if it derives from F7 or F-35 (striking resemblance) or why BD chose BG. For all I care you guys should go for F-22.

To say that its an F-7 is utter nonsense. This contrary to what professionals from around the world say about JF-17. 

FFS! look at what JF-17 offers; DSI, EW, glass cockpit, better computing, user friendly, NETCENTRIC warfare, datalink, BVR, aerodynamics and etc.

Quit rambling utter BS.


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## kobiraaz

Imran Khan said:


> khuda ganjy ko nakhoon nhi deta
> 
> i must say think god you have no falcons thunders flankers in service otherwise you must eat us alive with trolling . you have 8 birds in hand which can really fight and you are doing all this **** .imagine you guys have 5sqn of f-16 you will say UAE block-60 are not worthy in front of F-16BG



no one said anything like this... They only said Jf17 is inferior to proven f16 su30... Maybe he is technically wrong. But You guys are too egoistic

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## Major Shaheb

z9-ec said:


> We don't give two &*#%s if it derives from F7 or F-35 (striking resemblance) or why BD chose BG. For all I care you guys should go for F-22.
> 
> To say that its an F-7 is utter nonsense. This contrary to what professionals from around the world say about JF-17.
> 
> FFS! look at what JF-17 offers; EW, glass cockpit, better computing, user friendly, NETCENTRIC warfare, datalink, BVR, aerodynamics and etc.
> 
> Quit rambling utter BS.



Same to u. JF-17 is a very good 3++ generation fighter aircraft that costs $20mln a unit. Well, thats a bit too expensive for a stop-gap aircraft. If we add couple of $mln more with that we can easily buy J-10/mig-29. Why should we buy piece of crap JF-17 with $20mln rather our govt. bought stop-gap pieces of **** F-7BGI @ $8mln/unit.

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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> Same to u. JF-17 is a very good* 3++ generation* fighter aircraft that costs $20mln a unit. Well, thats a bit too expensive for a stop-gap aircraft. If we add couple of $mln more with that we can easily buy J-10/mig-29. Why should we buy *piece of crap JF-17 *with $20mln rather our govt. bought stop-gap pieces of ***** F-7BGI* @ $8mln/unit.



your posts show us you are really an uneducated idiot

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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> Hearsay? He posted the evolution pic, and chinese sources which had the JF-17's MiG-21 genes plotted. What more do you want? I never said JF-17 and MiG-21 have the same abilities, but to claim JF-17 didn't have its lineage to the MiG-21 is pure sshit.
> The correct sentence would be, JF-17 is a different aircraft when compared to its grand-pappy the MiG-21. That's it.
> 
> *Now comes the really important part, does the JF-17 improve on the MiG-21? It does in some areas, but it doesn't in some.
> 
> It beats the MiG-21 in -
> Range
> Fuel Consumption
> Bigger Radar
> Hardpoints
> Payload
> Low Speed Aerodynamics
> Thrust to Weight Ratio
> 
> MiG-21 beats JF-17 in-
> Speed
> Thrust to Weight Ratio(in scramble-intercept mode)
> Cost
> High Speed Aerodynamics
> G-limit
> 
> Unknowns-
> AoA - 26(28 recoverable) for MiG. Unknown for JF-17
> *
> It does well from what I can see. Your egos so huge you can't accept anything you feel is hurting this Chinese made fighter?
> 
> 
> Now I know how Jay Leno feels.



This bold part of your post deserve a reply... Are you a kid? This is the most moronic post I have ever came across with..

Now By applying your logic pertaining speed of a jet I am going to outclass many jets... 

Max speed of J-7(Mig-21): Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h, 1189 knots, 1375 mph) 

Now... Following aircrafts stand no chance in front of J-7 (Mig-21) when it comes to speed 

Max speed of F-18: Mach 1.8 (1,190 mph, 1,915 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)
Max speed of HAL Tejas: Mach 1.8 (2,138 km/h) at high altitude 
Max speed of Su-30 MKI: Mach 1.9 (2,120 km/h, 1,317 mph) at altitude; 1,350 km/h, 839 mph near ground level
Max speed of Rafale:High altitude: Mach 1.8+ (2,130+ km/h, 1,050+ knots),Low altitude: 1,390 km/h, 750 knots
Max speed of JF-17: Mach 1.8 (1,191 knots, 2,205 km/h)

Seriously do you even know difference between a Turjet and a Turbofan engine?

If your AoA is 28 or more you are gone unless you have TVC... Post stalling you know? BTW I never knew J-7 (Mig-21) had a TVC engine, thankx for such valuable information..

T/W ratio! Mig-21 variants have ratio ranging from 0.69 to 0.74..... And JF-17 has 0.95.. How does it beat JFT?

Hahahaha.... I can't believe you...

And yeah 3rd generation fighter is much much better than a fourth generation fighter..... In fact IAF must order a couple of more Mig-21 squadrons...

P.S..... I really love F-7


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## TopCat

z9-ec said:


> FFS! look at what JF-17 offers; DSI, EW, glass cockpit, better computing, user friendly, NETCENTRIC warfare, datalink, BVR, aerodynamics and etc.
> 
> Quit rambling utter BS.



Now you came to the point. They are saying F-7BGI will be shipped with all of these!!! Sweet huh...

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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> Now you came to the point. They are saying F-7BGI will be shipped with all of these!!! Sweet huh...



and stealth also you forget to inform 

look at you guys behavior your junk is gold and others still non mature platform is junk 3gen . no wonder your air force is nothing but a junkyard its from GOD .


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## TopCat

Imran Khan said:


> and stealth also you forget to inform



No stealth yet.... but F-BGJ... K.. L etc might have. We also have future dreams for this shitty F-7 like JF-17... LOL


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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> No stealth yet.... but F-BGJ... K.. L etc might have. We also have future dreams for this shitty F-7 like JF-17... LOL



yes and some shitty air force will buy it in 2012 too ? for future gen fighter air craft 

to face one side huge and other side avarge air force with dream of war?


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## Emmie

Imran bhaiya woh bacha hay choro ussay app..... hahahhaha

Ussay Khak bhi kuch nae pata..


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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> Imran bhaiya woh bacha hay choro ussay app..... hahahhaha
> 
> Ussay Khak bhi kuch nae pata..



they forget there original place even PAF sold them used jets in past .


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## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> Same to u. JF-17 is a very good 3++ generation fighter aircraft that costs $20mln a unit. Well, thats a bit too expensive for a stop-gap aircraft. If we add couple of $mln more with that we can easily buy J-10/mig-29. Why should we buy piece of crap JF-17 with $20mln rather our govt. bought stop-gap pieces of **** F-7BGI @ $8mln/unit.





I ask you a question&#12290;Now ChineseAirForce still enjoy J7 very much and buying due to J7 is very easy to maintain and fly. Why can not your Bengal get J7.Bengal is a rich developed country or has plenty of oil&#65311;&#65311;

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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> they forget there original place even PAF sold them used jets in past .



Sir we even gifted them some F-6s... They now will do JV with US for F-35 in its all three formats..


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## TopCat

Imran Khan said:


> look at you guys behavior your junk is gold and others still non mature platform is junk 3gen . no wonder your air force is nothing but a junkyard its from GOD .



Why are you calling F-7 a junk yet PK and China still have the biggest inventory of that junk. Its a proven platform. No doubt about it. BD did not choose it as the base for its airforce. Its going to buy true 4++ generation fighters in near future. Just wait and see. When we take things in our hand, we take it seriously. A simple example, BD did not consider nuclear energy before but once it did, it ordered 2000 MW plant in a single go. BD never sent satellite before but this time they are sending 2 most modern satellite at a time. We did not consider buying advanced craft for our Navy but this time we ordered a whole lot of them. We already setup Aeronotical institute and a indegenous light aircraft will be built in that within next 10 years. 

Stay tuned my friend....

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## TopCat

Emmie said:


> Sir we even gifted them some F-6s... They now will do JV with US for F-35 in its all three formats..



Huh... those mighty F-6 could never fly and were washed away by floods and we never bothered to pick them up. Probably ended up in our reroll steel mill. 

It was idiot Ershad who accepted those for no reason...

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## z9-ec

iajdani said:


> Now you came to the point. They are saying F-7BGI will be shipped with all of these!!! Sweet huh...



Oh really? does it offer DSI?

Frankly, I do not see Pakistan and China would be willing to sell JF-17 to BD. Just as we did not sell or transfer technology of Al Zarrar to BD. The government in Dhaka is too 'India' friendly. However, I maybe wrong.


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## Maira La

z9-ec said:


> Oh really? does it offer DSI?
> 
> Frankly, I do not see Pakistan and China would be willing to sell JF-17 to BD. Just as we did not sell or transfer technology of Al Zarrar to BD. The government in Dhaka is too 'India' friendly.



Then GoB might opt for Tejas.


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## TopCat

houshanghai said:


> I ask you a question&#12290;Now ChineseAirForce still enjoy J7 very much and buying due to J7 is very easy to maintain and fly. Why can not your Bengal get J7.Bengal is a rich developed country or has plenty of oil&#65311;&#65311;



J7 is not available for export i suppose.. correct me if I am wrong. F7 is the export version.


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## houshanghai

iajdani said:


> J7 is not available for export i suppose.. correct me if I am wrong. F7 is the export version.



F7=J7,Chinese word 'J'=fighter

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## TopCat

z9-ec said:


> Oh really? does it offer DSI?
> 
> Frankly, I do not see Pakistan and China would be willing to sell JF-17 to BD. Just as we *did not sell or transfer technology of Al Zarrar to BD*. The government in Dhaka is too 'India' friendly. However, I maybe wrong.



Hehehehehe.. but you tried to sell AL-Khalid while we bought MBT-2000.
And we got those technology directly from the vendor China. 

Look Bangla version of AL-Zarar the most upgraded for MBT 69. Dont be jealous..

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## Emmie

iajdani said:


> Huh... those mighty F-6 could never fly and were washed away by floods and we never bothered to pick them up. Probably ended up in our reroll steel mill.
> 
> It was idiot Ershad who accepted those for no reason...




Hahaha.... It was a boo boo at your part you shouldn't have accepted that gift... BTW which aircraft in your inventory is exemplary?


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## FNFAL

wow...from what it started as a bashing of BAf..i slowly emerged to be a very informative thread.
Though i always had a conception of fc1 being mig33...thanks to major shaheb.mig21 for those very detailed insights...

The mig-21 ..a design of the 50`s sees its inspirations in 2012..simply amamzing....

Having said that, theres no denying that avionics wise/ew/weapons fc1 is far better than its pappy mig for obvious reasons of age and advancemnt in tech

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 AM ----------

just asking..who was the PM then??
Was the pak snub as a result of pro-india gob or was it khaleda zia in powah?

---------- Post added at 02:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 AM ----------




iajdani said:


> Hehehehehe.. but you tried to sell AL-Khalid while we bought MBT-2000.
> And we got those technology directly from the vendor China.
> 
> Look Bangla version of AL-Zarar the most upgraded for MBT 69. Dont be jealous..



just asking..who was the PM then??
Was the pak snub as a result of pro-india gob or was it khaleda zia in powah?


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## z9-ec

iajdani said:


> Hehehehehe.. but you tried to sell AL-Khalid while we bought MBT-2000.
> And we got those technology directly from the vendor China.
> 
> Look Bangla version of AL-Zarar the most upgraded for MBT 69. Dont be jealous..




Off topic, apologies mods.

This is what BD wanted:


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## MiG-21

> This bold part of your post deserve a reply... Are you a kid? This is the most moronic post I have ever came across with..
> 
> Now By applying your logic pertaining speed of a jet I am going to outclass many jets...
> 
> Max speed of J-7(Mig-21): Mach 2.0 (2,200 km/h, 1189 knots, 1375 mph)
> 
> Now... Following aircrafts stand no chance in front of J-7 (Mig-21) when it comes to speed
> 
> Max speed of F-18: Mach 1.8 (1,190 mph, 1,915 km/h) at 40,000 ft (12,190 m)
> Max speed of HAL Tejas: Mach 1.8 (2,138 km/h) at high altitude
> Max speed of Su-30 MKI: Mach 1.9 (2,120 km/h, 1,317 mph) at altitude; 1,350 km/h, 839 mph near ground level
> Max speed of Rafale:High altitude: Mach 1.8+ (2,130+ km/h, 1,050+ knots),Low altitude: 1,390 km/h, 750 knots
> Max speed of JF-17: Mach 1.8 (1,191 knots, 2,205 km/h)
> 
> Seriously do you even know difference between a Turjet and a Turbofan engine?


Holy sshit. Talk about nonsense. In order to shoot a jet, you need to catch it in the first place. How are you going to shoot a jet going away from you at an angle greater than 90 degrees? Magic?
Your JF-17s speed is 1.6. Latest info from farnborough.



> If your AoA is less than 28 you are gone unless you have TVC... Post stalling you know? BTW I never knew J-7 (Mig-21) had a TVC engine, thankx for such valuable information..


"If your AoA is *less* than 28 you are gone unless you have TVC"
*facepalm*



> T/W ratio! Mig-21 variants have ratio ranging from 0.69 to 0.74..... And JF-17 has 0.95.. How does it beat JFT?
> 
> Hahahaha.... I can't believe you...
> 
> And yeah 3rd generation fighter is much much better than a fourth generation fighter..... In fact IAF must order a couple of more Mig-21 squadrons...
> 
> P.S..... I really love F-7


http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/72354-thrust-weight-ratios-all-fighter-planes.html
And it gets worse, if NATO method of half fuel and 2 aams are considered, MiG-21Bis beats your love-toy JF-17.

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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> Holy sshit. Talk about nonsense. In order to shoot a jet, you need to catch it in the first place. How are you going to shoot a jet going away from you at an angle greater than 90 degrees? Magic?
> Your JF-17s speed is 1.6. Latest info from farnborough.
> 
> 
> "If your AoA is *less* than 28 you are gone unless you have TVC"
> *facepalm*
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/72354-thrust-weight-ratios-all-fighter-planes.html
> And it gets worse, if NATO method of half fuel and 2 aams are considered, MiG-21Bis beats your love-toy JF-17.



*So can I say Mig-21 will get MKI, Hornet, Rafale, Tejas at first, after all it has speed more than mentioned competitors? Leave JFT apart for a while*... 

My bad pertaining AOA...


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## FNFAL

Apocalypse said:


> Bangalis = an Indic race
> 
> Pakistanis = Arabs (or so they think)



re-run of the 60`s i might say....sad to say perceptions havent chnaged....trully sad that senior members are commenting on race when met with conclusive arguments...


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## z9-ec

Calm down folks. 

We're not here to force BD to buy anything. They chose BGI. Good for them. Nevertheless, to say JF-17 is an F7 or 'junk' = BS. F7 is good but JF-17 is modern and offers much more.

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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> and stealth also you forget to inform
> 
> look at you guys behavior your junk is gold and others still non mature platform is junk 3gen . *no wonder your air force is nothing but a junkyard* its from GOD .



Did you mean old aircraft!! then look at yours first. Just check, which air force in the world bought the most 2nd hand aircraft so far. I think no one can beat PAF there ever. PAF is the world's largest old crap aircraft junkyard. 

*PAF has a total of 180 second hand air craft inventory:*
50 Mirage-3 ex-Royal Australian Air Force, 25 Mirage-3 ex-Spanish Air Force, 9 Mirage-3 ex-Lebanese Air Force, 16 Mirage-3 ex-French Air Force, 48 Mirage-5 ex-!, 20 T-37 ex-USAF delivered in 2008, 4 IL-76 ex-Ukrainian Air Force, 2 C-130(L-100-20) ex-PIA, 6 C-130 ex-Australian Air Force, 2 C-130B ex-USAF.

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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> they forget there original place even PAF sold them *used jets in past* .



Yeah, just like PAF acquired 180 used aircraft in the past.

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## Major Shaheb

houshanghai said:


> I ask you a question&#12290;Now ChineseAirForce still enjoy J7 very much and buying due to J7 is very easy to maintain and fly. Why can not your Bengal get J7.Bengal is a rich developed country or has plenty of oil&#65311;&#65311;



So, what do u suggest? Buy JF-17 for $20mln and ditch it after receiving SU-30/Mig-29/F-16/Gripen!!!! Good Idea. So, can you explain, why PLAAF is not interested in JF-17!! If they want they can buy 300 of them replacing J-7 and reducing unit price to $8-10mln easily. And that can definitely help them getting customer as well.

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## eastwatch

Imran Khan said:


> and stealth also you forget to inform
> 
> look at you guys behavior your junk is gold and others still non mature platform is junk 3gen . no wonder your air force is nothing but a junkyard its from GOD .



However, no one can claim that JF-17 is any higher than 3++ generation fighter.


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## eastwatch

Imran Khan said:


> they forget there original place even PAF sold them used jets in past .



Yes, it is true what you have stated. But, do not forget PAF was also our airforce and our hard currency bought you those planes. Most of your military and civilian infrastructures were built at our expense. Do not forget these and do not brag. Do not spit at the sky like a stupid because it comes right on your own face. Within the next 10 to 15 years we will take our position in the world stage and will certainly beat the hell out of Pakistan in every sector, that includes military. Your country is just limping and depending upon US pity.

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## eastwatch

iajdani said:


> Huh... those mighty F-6 could never fly and were washed away by floods and we never bothered to pick them up. Probably ended up in our reroll steel mill.
> 
> It was idiot Ershad who accepted those for no reason...



Pakistanis should come to Dhaka to see their F-6 aircrafts hanging at the military gates and museaums. They should not also forget these were paid by the Bangali taxpayers' money. Pakistan should pay us back all the money they have stolen from us in the name of islamic brotherhood. Any of their present jealously will only embolden us and we will beat them in every sector except bombing the mosques.

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## Roybot

Jeez talk about aggressive sales pitch.


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## eastwatch

Imran Khan said:


> oyeee dafa kero now we will compare ourself with bagalis? have some shame yaar.



You are becoming too racist. What the hell do you think of Bangalis. We have beaten you guys in heroism in the 1965 Pak-India war. East Bengal Regiment received the maximum number of medals for sacrificying in the Khemkaran sector. Do not forget EBR saved your Lahore from being taken over by the IA in 1965 war by giving their lives. 

You messed with us in 1971 and our armless people have shown EXIT to you . They fought valiantly in 1971 and made your troops POW at the hand of HINDU India. You should have committed suicides instead of being taken prisoners by IA. You guys are shameless. How could your 93,000 troops of PA had given up so easily? You must be a very shameless nation. But, you are trying to downgrade our image, instead, here in this forum.

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## eastwatch

z9-ec said:


> Calm down folks.
> 
> We're not here to force BD to buy anything. They chose BGI. Good for them. Nevertheless, to say JF-17 is an F7 or 'junk' = BS. F7 is good but JF-17 is modern and offers much more.



Who denies that JF-17 is a little better than F-BGI? But, at the same time JF-17 is not also a proven plane. Look at the T/W ratio of JF, it is 0.82. For BGI it is 0.76, while Mig-21 has 0.74. JF is only a little ahead in the T/W ratio, too. 

BAF wants to buy another sq. of BGI only as a stop gap measure. we paid less than $8 million for this, but JF costs more than $20 million. Why to spend so much money for a JF platform when we alreday have better planes like Mig-29s and we intend to buy a few sqs. of 4.5++ generation fighters as our mainstay plane in the very near future? 

By the way, how many countries have so far bought JF-17 from Pakistan? None. Then, why should we volunteer for this plane by paying such a big price?


----------



## houshanghai

Major Shaheb said:


> So, what do u suggest? Buy JF-17 for $20mln and ditch it after receiving SU-30/Mig-29/F-16/Gripen!!!! Good Idea. So, can you explain, why PLAAF is not interested in JF-17!! If they want they can buy 300 of them replacing J-7 and reducing unit price to $8-10mln easily. And that can definitely help them getting customer as well.



you like to disparage jf17 very much , which is already a undisputed 4 gen fighter in world. But you guy still claimed that JF17 is only a 3rd +++ crappp fighter,copyyyy ,which is only a derivative of the J7/mig21.
well ,you need a out-of-date bird,then my opinion is that you should buy USA F35 ,it is the most modern 5gen figher ,

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## eastwatch

FNFAL said:


> Isnt this racist?
> 
> Why are those bengalis sub human???



Bengalis are not sub-human, but Pakistanis are super-human. They all are coward angels from Moon and Mars.

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> Hehehehehe.. but you tried to sell AL-Khalid while we bought MBT-2000.
> And we got those technology directly from the vendor China.



Al-Khalid is the Pakistani version of the MBT-2000. 



iajdani said:


> Look Bangla version of AL-Zarar the most upgraded for MBT 69. Dont be jealous.



Jealous about what? 



Emmie said:


> @ Zabanya.... I wonder if you could elaborate the exact status of Mig-29SE BAF is operating.. Sorry, question is bit of topic..



They are still operational. Total of 8. Six of them are MiG-29SEs while 2 of them are MiG-29UBs. There are plans to upgrade them to SMT standards, the time frame is unknown. In my opinion, they should do so as soon as possible. 

They used to face many problems with them before. There were even rumors of cannibalism. But now, those problems are more or less solved. Some were overhauled in Bangladesh, while others were overhauled in Ukraine. 

Originally, Bangladesh ordered 16 of them. But was later cut down to 8. 

Back in the BNP-administration, they were seriously considering selling them off. 



Major Shaheb said:


> Same to u. JF-17 is a very good 3++ generation fighter aircraft that costs $20mln a unit. Well, thats a bit too expensive for a stop-gap aircraft. If we add couple of $mln more with that we can easily buy J-10/mig-29. Why should we buy piece of crap JF-17 with $20mln rather our govt. bought stop-gap pieces of **** F-7BGI @ $8mln/unit.



You are confusing between 3rd generation and 4th generation planes! 

F-7BG cockpit:






JF-17 cockpit:





Nobody is forcing Bangladesh to buy JF-17. But your posts regarding the JF-17 are nothing more than fanboyish rants!

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## Tameem

Zabaniya said:


> Nobody is forcing Bangladesh to buy JF-17. But your posts regarding the JF-17 are nothing more than fanboyish rants!


 
Totally Agreed Zabaniya..!! But Here the problem is something else;

Since JF-17 is a Pride of Pakistan, Its necessary for some Bangladeshis including thier Govt to tarnish it wherever it appears, they simply can't couldnt digest it out of long held Hate/Anger/Complex. Clerly their thinking pattern on this issue is not rational but prejudice. It reminds me their gestures when Pakistan agnites the AB back in 1998.

My sincere advice to all of them is.

If you are going through Helljust keep going!!


----------



## farhan_9909

eastwatch said:


> Who denies that JF-17 is a little better than F-BGI? But, at the same time JF-17 is not also a proven plane. Look at the T/W ratio of JF, it is 0.82. For BGI it is 0.76, while Mig-21 has 0.74. JF is only a little ahead in the T/W ratio, too.
> 
> BAF wants to buy another sq. of BGI only as a stop gap measure. we paid less than $8 million for this, but JF costs more than $20 million. Why to spend so much money for a JF platform when we alreday have better planes like Mig-29s and we intend to buy a few sqs. of 4.5++ generation fighters as our mainstay plane in the very near future?
> 
> By the way, how many countries have so far bought JF-17 from Pakistan? None. Then, why should we volunteer for this plane by paying such a big price?



Hello 
whats up

Sir why do you think JFT is slightly better than F-7BGI?only because of almost same t/w ratio and the ratio you quoted is also wrong
the specs you are seeing on net of JFT are nt updated since 2007-2008 while the JFT is getting upgrading with the passage of time..

the real t/w ratio of JFT is well over 1..as said in the UK airshow 2010.
the rd-93 with 86kn thrust give 0.95 ratio to JFT bt since in zhuhai airshow we knew that the rd-93 has a maximum thrust of 98kn which give over 1 t/w ratio to JFT.

JFT carry 4 ton payload while F&BGI only 2 ton.
JFT range is 3400km and F7BGI only 2200km
JFT is BVR capable while F-7BGI nt
JFT weapons include anti ship c-80x with a decent range,anti radiation mar 1 from brazil,BVR,WVR(A darter or the latest chineese one),cruise missile ra'ad,h2/4(PGM),
making JFT a true multirole
while f-7BGI carry only WVR and PGM
JFT is much more advance in avionics era..comparing JFT in avionics with F-7BGI is totally BS.

++
Now JFT advantage over f-7BGI
BVR capable
anti role
anti radiation/SEAD
more payload
better radar and avionics
more good weapons package
more payload
HMD,HUD,
full glass cockpit
more range
cruise missile option on table
higher t/w ratio
more agile
and more good looking 
nt to forgot that JFT 2 specs will be the standard specs used for JFT only after an year.which include alot of goodies
ENJOY

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## farhan_9909

Zabaniya said:


> Al-Khalid is the Pakistani version of the MBT-2000.QUOTE]
> 
> Sir Pakistan has funded the AL khalid aka MBT-2000 project.
> 
> MBT-2000/type 90 is chineese name of this project and we call it AL khalid
> 
> pakistan hold 50% development as well as fund share in this project.
> 
> Pakistan has full rights to even sell the Al khalid to any nation
> 
> sri lanka was the one whom has even placed order bt later withdraw.

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## farhan_9909

eastwatch said:


> However, no one can claim that JF-17 is any higher than 3++ generation fighter.



JFT offer all the tech a 4th gen fighter can
and is considered a 4th gen fighter throughout the world except in your case

wait one year till the block 2 enter.
from specs block 2 is comparable to block 52 f-16

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## ziaulislam

well
i have heard no one claiming that jf-17 is less than 4th gen(chines 3rd gen) aircraft..except indian fanboys..

the desgn and avionics itself tells the story..u cant expect BVRs in 3rd gen aircrafts..

anyway i have said number of times thats its impossible atleast in the current govt to buy anything even remotely attached to pakistan..

anyway f-7 desicion is a good one as operating mig29 and j-10 are costly and require expetise to induct new palteforms..jf-17 would have been an excellent option but...politics...


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## Zabaniyah

farhan_9909 said:


> Sir Pakistan has funded the AL khalid aka MBT-2000 project.
> 
> MBT-2000/type 90 is chineese name of this project and we call it AL khalid
> 
> pakistan hold 50% development as well as fund share in this project.
> 
> Pakistan has full rights to even sell the Al khalid to any nation
> 
> sri lanka was the one whom has even placed order bt later withdraw.



True. In fact, Pakistan was offered the M1 Abrams by the Americans back in the 80s. It was way too heavy to operate in Pakistani terrain. So, they went ahead with their own MBT program with Chinese cooperation. Self-sufficiency is always priceless. 



farhan_9909 said:


> JFT offer all the tech a 4th gen fighter can
> and is considered a 4th gen fighter throughout the world except in your case
> 
> wait one year till the block 2 enter.
> from specs block 2 is comparable to block 52 f-16



Frankly, it was here the first time I've heard that the JF-17 is a 3rd generation fighter 

If I am not mistaken, block 1's systems integration will be complete by the middle of next year. From then onwards would the development of the block 2 occur. I believe the block 2 will be sporting AESA.



ziaulislam said:


> well
> i have heard no one claiming that jf-17 is less than 4th gen(chines 3rd gen) aircraft..except indian fanboys..
> 
> the desgn and avionics itself tells the story..u cant expect BVRs in 3rd gen aircrafts..
> 
> anyway i have said number of times thats its impossible atleast in the current govt to buy anything even remotely attached to pakistan..
> 
> anyway f-7 desicion is a good one as operating mig29 and j-10 are costly and require expetise to induct new palteforms..jf-17 would have been an excellent option but...politics...



Bangladesh did order MBT-2000s this year.

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## MiG-21

> So can I say Mig-21 will get MKI, Hornet, Rafale, Tejas at first, after all it has speed more than mentioned competitors? Leave JFT apart for a while...


No.. no.. ofcourse not. For example, if both MiG-21 and JF-17 are at X distance from a target and are at 12 o clock of each other(say a paf bomber), the MiG-21 can get to the target faster and kill it. And can get its asss outta there before the JF-17 shows up. Which means the MiG has completed its mission while the JFT has a mission failure.
Also with speed you can be on several places in a very short amount of time. Speed is a valuable commodity, because Speed is Time, and every second in a war counts. You have to be in the right place at the right time, and for that to happen, you need Speed. The Russians have an entire fleet of Fighters(MiG-31) which has nothing but speed. The MiG-31 cannot even dogfight, all it has is speed. Are the Russians stupid to have MiG-31s?
MKIs speed is not very high(1.9), and that is indeed not something to celebrate about.


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## ziaulislam

its true mig 21 can enter and kill an f-35 as it moves faster but problem is it falls from indain skies like stone and has ben nick named as flying coffin.
so..lets stick to topic rather than straying here and there

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## MiG-21

^ stupid trolling.

I think I beginning to understand the logic going on here. Anything JF-17 doesn't have, is labeled unnecessary, and what it does have is the only things necessary. Fanboys through and through.

_"It is pointed out that the F-35 is primarily designed as a strike aircraft, with air defense and air-to-air combat as a secondary role. As such, its abilities to function as an interceptor and to operate within the air policing role have been questioned due to limitations in the F-35&#8217;s *speed* and agility when compared to its 2 competitors[Eurofighter & Gripen NG]."_
Lightning II faces continued dogfights in Norway

Speed is a only a part of the equation and not the whole equation. To say having speed is unnecessary just because your fav fighter is slow, reeks of fanboyism.

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## eastwatch

farhan_9909 said:


> Hello
> whats up
> 
> Sir why do you think JFT is slightly better than F-7BGI?only because of almost same t/w ratio and the ratio you quoted is also wrong
> the specs you are seeing on net of JFT are nt updated since 2007-2008 while the JFT is getting upgrading with the passage of time..
> 
> the real t/w ratio of JFT is well over 1..as said in the UK airshow 2010.
> the rd-93 with 86kn thrust give 0.95 ratio to JFT bt since in zhuhai airshow we knew that the rd-93 has a maximum thrust of 98kn which give over 1 t/w ratio to JFT.
> 
> JFT carry 4 ton payload while F&BGI only 2 ton.
> JFT range is 3400km and F7BGI only 2200km
> JFT is BVR capable while F-7BGI nt
> JFT weapons include anti ship c-80x with a decent range,anti radiation mar 1 from brazil,BVR,WVR(A darter or the latest chineese one),cruise missile ra'ad,h2/4(PGM),
> making JFT a true multirole
> while f-7BGI carry only WVR and PGM
> JFT is much more advance in avionics era..comparing JFT in avionics with F-7BGI is totally BS.



I am not an expert of avionics, but people should read the specifications written in the Airforce Technology I am posting herewith. I have been hearing all along that the F-7BGIs are BVR capable. But, this is the 1st time that I have found reports that supports it. F-BGI is indeed BVR ( Beyond Visual Range) capable. See the specifications below to know that. This plane encompasses many other latest technologies like HUDWAC, as well. 

However, there are certain drawbacks of this plane. It has a shorter range and a lighter payload. But, BAF is after a defensive plane only that can finish its mission in short time. Small payloads and short distance also supplement each other. But, this plane is almost as speedy as JF-17 at Mach 1.8.

In case of Bangladesh with a small land, the plane comes back after a short mission is complete and takes new payloads that is taken to enemy positions by a second pilot. This plane is quite compatible with our small landscape and our 4 times larger number of pilots than the number of planes. 

I do not think, a BVR-capable F-7BGI would be a dumb plane as some people are trying hard to prove. BVR does not come alone, it must be supported by other avionics. BAF is so secret that we feel we are living in a Communist country. However, we will know about the full specifications of BGIs once these are in Bangladesh.

Since I have edited the specifications in order to shorten it, people are requested to click the link to get the entire page. 

J-7 / F-7 - Airforce Technology

An F-7 Length is 14.88m and its Wingspan is 8.32m 

The J-7 is a single-engine, lightweight fighter aircraft designed and manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation (CAC) of China. Its design is based on its predecessor, the MiG-21 aircraft. The export version of J-7 has been designated the F-7.

The J-7 / F-7 has been built principally to meet the requirements of the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF), and more than 2,400 J-7s are currently operational worldwide.

J-7 variants

In an effort to meet the operational requirements of the defence forces, the CAC has developed 54 variants of the J-7.

Two types of J-7 variants have been built by the company, including a domestic Chinese variant and an export variant. About 28 domestic variants and 26 export variants are in operation worldwide.

The Bangladeshi Air Force purchased 16 F-7MB, 16 F-7BG and eight FT-7B aircraft. These F-7MB aircraft will be replaced with 100 BEYOND VISUAL RANGE-capable F-7BGs by 2010.

Ground attack missions

The J-7 has been designed to perform ground attack missions in all weather conditions. It can climb to higher altitudes with its delta wings at transonic and supersonic speeds. The aircraft also features a small-sized airframe fitted with a powerful engine.It is suitable only for point air defence due to its short-range attacking capability.

HUDWAC avionics

The aircraft is equipped with an efficient avionics system which includes a GEC-Marconi Avionics HUDWAC (head-up display and weapon aiming computer) plus GARMIN global positioning and bombing navigation systems. It is also equipped with a Super Skyranger radar, an FIAR Grifo-7 mkII radar (export) and a Type 226 PD radar.

Cannon armaments

The J-7/F-7 is armed with two 30mm cannons, which can fire munitions at the rate of 60 rounds a minute. The aircraft has five hardpoints, four of which are located under the two wings and one beneath the centreline fuselage section. It can carry a payload of up to 2,000kg. The J-7 is fitted with PL-2, PL-5, PL-7, PL-8, PL-9, Magic R.550 and AIM-9 air-to-air missiles (AAM), unguided bombs weighing 50kg to 500kg, a 55mm rocket pod and a 90mm rocket pod.

"The J-7 fighter aircraft is a copy of the Russian MiG-21."Single turbojet engine

Powered by a single Liyang Wopen-13F/WP-7 turbojet engine the J-7's engine produces 44.1kN of dry thrust, while its afterburner thrust is 65.17kN. The developer of the WP-7 turbojet engine is Shenyang Aero Engine Factory.

Performance

The J-7 can climb at the rate of 155m/s, while the maximum and cruise speeds of the aircraft are 2,120km/h and 1,200km/h respectively. Its combat range is 850km. The ferry range of the J-7is 2,000km and the aircraft can fly to a maximum altitude of 17,800m.

The take-off and landing distances of the aircraft are 800m and 750m respectively. The aircraft weighs around 5,292kg and its maximum take-off weight is 9,100kg.


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## Zabaniyah

If F-7 is BVR capable, what missile does it fire?


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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> No.. no.. ofcourse not. For example, if both MiG-21 and JF-17 are at X distance from a target and are at 12 o clock of each other(say a paf bomber), the MiG-21 can get to the target faster and kill it. And can get its asss outta there before the JF-17 shows up. Which means the MiG has completed its mission while the JFT has a mission failure.
> Also with speed you can be on several places in a very short amount of time. Speed is a valuable commodity, because Speed is Time, and every second in a war counts. You have to be in the right place at the right time, and for that to happen, you need Speed. The Russians have an entire fleet of Fighters(MiG-31) which has nothing but speed. The MiG-31 cannot even dogfight, all it has is speed. Are the Russians stupid to have MiG-31s?
> MKIs speed is not very high(1.9), and that is indeed not something to celebrate about.



Speed is important but its not everything... Various factors are sacrificed for one particular thing.. Mig-31 has nothing worth mentioning except its speed which makes it a finest interceptor, the worst part of this jet is its radius of combat... Again as I said Mig-31 sacrifices its other capabilities for just speed... MKI has everything but not that speed, same is true for other jets I mentioned.. 
Mig-21 is a dedicated fighter/interceptor aircraft, and as per role fighter/interceptor without speed means junk. It has speed but it lacks armament and avionics of a fourth generation aircraft, it will get detected before it detects any jet. JFT on other hand is a fourth generation multirole aircraft, has superior avionics and armaments, can do air to ground/sea attacks along with air to air unlike Mig-21... No way Mig-21 can be compared with Jf-17 or any of others multirole aircraft.



> No.. no.. ofcourse not. For example, if both MiG-21 and JF-17 are at X distance from a target and are at 12 o clock of each other(say a paf bomber), the MiG-21 can get to the target faster and kill it. And can get its asss outta there before the JF-17 shows up. Which means the MiG has completed its mission while the JFT has a mission failure.



So it must be true for MKI/Tejas likewise?...... Both J-7 (Mig-21) and any one of two aircrafts are at X distance from a target and are at 12 O clock of each other.. J-7 can get to the target (assume IAF bomber) faster and destroy it and can make an escape before MKI/Tejas show up.... Means J-7 completed its mission while MKI/tejas has a mission failure..

Hey, I didnt know even our MirageIII and 5 are good against MKI!!!


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## Emmie

Zabaniya said:


> Jealous about what?
> 
> 
> 
> They are still operational. Total of 8. Six of them are MiG-29SEs while 2 of them are MiG-29UBs. There are plans to upgrade them to SMT standards, the time frame is unknown. In my opinion, they should do so as soon as possible.
> 
> They used to face many problems with them before. There were even rumors of cannibalism. But now, those problems are more or less solved. Some were overhauled in Bangladesh, while others were overhauled in Ukraine.
> 
> Originally, Bangladesh ordered 16 of them. But was later cut down to 8.
> 
> Back in the BNP-administration, they were seriously considering selling them off



I was actually asking about exact specifications.... Does it come with fat-back? Which radar does it use, N109M or N109ME? Addition in armament?


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## MiG-21

> *Speed is important but its not everything...* Various factors are sacrificed for one particular thing.. Mig-31 has nothing worth mentioning except its speed which makes it a finest interceptor, the worst part of this jet is its radius of combat... Again as I said Mig-31 sacrifices its other capabilities for just speed... MKI has everything but not that speed, same is true for other jets I mentioned..
> Mig-21 is a dedicated fighter/interceptor aircraft, and as per role fighter/interceptor without speed means junk. It has speed but it lacks armament and avionics of a fourth generation aircraft, it will get detected before it detects any jet. JFT on other hand is a fourth generation multirole aircraft, has superior avionics and armaments, can do air to ground/sea attacks along with air to air unlike Mig-21... No way Mig-21 can be compared with Jf-17 or any of others multirole aircraft.


Absolutely! It far from useless, as some here are preaching.



> So it must be true for MKI/Tejas likewise?...... Both J-7 (Mig-21) and any one of two aircrafts are at X distance from a target and are at 12 O clock of each other.. J-7 can get to the target (assume IAF bomber) faster and destroy it and can make an escape before MKI/Tejas show up.... Means J-7 completed its mission while MKI/tejas has a mission failure..
> 
> Hey, I didnt know even our MirageIII and 5 are good against MKI!!!


Yes, yes and yes. One of the reason why IAFs main interceptors are the MiG-21s and MiG-29s, not MKI.
But unfortunately your F-7s and Mirages are to be replaced by JF-17.


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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> ^ stupid trolling.
> 
> I think I beginning to understand the logic going on here. Anything JF-17 doesn't have, is labeled unnecessary, and what it does have is the only things necessary. Fanboys through and through.
> 
> _"It is pointed out that the F-35 is primarily designed as a strike aircraft, with air defense and air-to-air combat as a secondary role. As such, its abilities to function as an interceptor and to operate within the air policing role have been questioned due to limitations in the F-35&#8217;s *speed* and agility when compared to its 2 competitors[Eurofighter & Gripen NG]."_
> Lightning II faces continued dogfights in Norway
> 
> Speed is a only a part of the equation and not the whole equation. To say having speed is unnecessary just because your fav fighter is slow, reeks of fanboyism.



Thats not trolling.... Its a fact, Mig-21 are now flying coffins.... But its good to see you are still in love with this old bird..

*During 1966-84, India built 658 MiG-21s. Over half those aircraft were lost to accidents. This got worse as the aircraft got older. India lost 250 MiG-21s to accidents between 1991 and 2003*

Warplanes: RIP, MiG-21

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## artie

can't believe Bangladeshi Air Force leaders decided to purchase shitty aircrafts from the world-notorious copycat rather than its best neighbour India whose aircrafts are far more superior.


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## Zabaniyah

Emmie said:


> I was actually asking about exact specifications.... Does it come with fat-back? Which radar does it use, N109M or N109ME? Addition in armament?



I don't know what you mean by fat-back 

Unlike the MiG-29B, the SE variant comes with increased weapon load and longer range. Includes a variety of BVR missiles such as R-27 and R-77 variants. BVR missiles be active radar guided and semi-active. 

Can also be fitted with ECM systems such that it reduces the enemy radar's ability to detect it, and target acquisition systems. Capable of engaging two air targets. 

The radar the SE variant uses is the NO19-ME. It's a fairly basic pulse doppler radar. 

The upgraded weapons system includes the R-27ER1, R-27E&#1058;1, R-27&#1058;1, R-27R1, R-73E air-to-air missiles, GSh-301 built-in gun, air bombs and rockets.

Specs:
Takeoff weight: 
-Normal.....15,300 kg
-Max.........20,000 kg

Powerplant..................Two RD-33 engines. 
After burning trust....... 2 x 8,300 kgf

Max g-load: 9.0

Max air speed: 
-Ground level......1,500 km/h
-High level..........2,400 km/h 

Service ceiling: 17.75 km

Flight range: 
-Without EFT.........1,500 km
-With 3x EFT..........2,900 km (One in-flight refueling gives it >5400 km)

Max external payload: 4,500 kg

Source: http://www.aviamarket.org/reviews/military-aircraft/148-mig-29se-light-tactical-fighter.html

Not everything in the source maybe 100% correct, since the source itself collects from a variety of sources. 

SE has no fly-by-wire. 



---------- Post added at 06:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:52 PM ----------




artie said:


> can't believe Bangladeshi Air Force leaders decided to purchase shitty aircrafts from the world-notorious copycat rather than its best neighbour *India whose aircrafts are far more superior.*



muhahahaha...

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## MiG-21

> Thats not trolling.... Its a fact, Mig-21 are now flying coffins.... But its good to see you are still in love with this old bird..
> 
> During 1966-84, India built 658 MiG-21s. Over half those aircraft were lost to accidents. This got worse as the aircraft got older. India lost 250 MiG-21s to accidents between 1991 and 2003


He was saying something about MiG-21 shooting down F-35 or some crap when I said no such thing. Genuine troll.

As for MiG-21 crashes, MiG-21 is the most flown aircraft in IAFs entire history. It is also the most numerous aircraft to fly in the IAFs entire history. It is also the aircraft which has the most flying hours in the IAFs entire history. Then add in spares and support withdrawn after Soviet Collapse, and IAFs lack of trainers. You get the reasons why it crashes more than other fighters.

If you really want to prove MiG-21 is a flying coffin, give me attrition rate figures. I've been searching for them for forever! Without attrition rate, its reduced to sensationalism.


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## Zabaniyah

MiG-21 said:


> He was saying something about MiG-21 shooting down F-35 or some crap when I said no such thing. Genuine troll.



Ever heard of a joke? 

Even many of your countrymen here admitted that the IAF MiG-21 is a flying coffin. Good planes for its time, but damn old. Flying old planes is never really safe.


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## Emmie

Zabaniya said:


> I don't know what you mean by fat-back
> 
> Unlike the MiG-29B, the SE variant comes with increased weapon load and longer range. Includes a variety of BVR missiles such as R-27 and R-77 variants. BVR missiles be active radar guided and semi-active.
> 
> Can also be fitted with ECM systems such that it reduces the enemy radar's ability to detect it, and target acquisition systems. Capable of engaging two air targets.
> 
> The radar the SE variant uses is the NO19-ME. It's a fairly basic pulse doppler radar.
> 
> The upgraded weapons system includes the R-27ER1, R-27E&#1058;1, R-27&#1058;1, R-27R1, R-73E air-to-air missiles, GSh-301 built-in gun, air bombs and rockets.
> 
> Specs:
> Takeoff weight:
> -Normal.....15,300 kg
> -Max.........20,000 kg
> 
> Powerplant..................Two RD-33 engines.
> After burning trust....... 2 x 8,300 kgf
> 
> Max g-load: 9.0
> 
> Max air speed:
> -Ground level......1,500 km/h
> -High level..........2,400 km/h
> 
> Service ceiling: 17.75 km
> 
> Flight range:
> -Without EFT.........1,500 km
> -With 3x EFT..........2,900 km (One in-flight refueling gives it >5400 km)
> 
> Max external payload: 4,500 kg
> 
> Source: MiG-29SE
> 
> Not everything in the source maybe 100% correct, since the source itself collects from a variety of sources.
> 
> SE has no fly-by-wire.



Hahahha... What I meant by fat-back was dorsal hump behind the cockpit canopy where you fit L-203BE Gardenyia-1 ECM system... Mig-29SE is an export version of Mig-29 S with some improvements... Ones Malaysia is operating lack dorsal-hump. Mig-29 SE is Mig-29B except for some differences like longer range, increased payload, new missiles, ECM etc.. I was confused about the radar and ECM of Bangladeshi Mig-29..... Thanks for info...


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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> He was saying something about MiG-21 shooting down F-35 or some crap when I said no such thing. Genuine troll.
> 
> As for MiG-21 crashes, MiG-21 is the most flown aircraft in IAFs entire history. It is also the most numerous aircraft to fly in the IAFs entire history. It is also the aircraft which has the most flying hours in the IAFs entire history. Then add in spares and support withdrawn after Soviet Collapse, and IAFs lack of trainers. You get the reasons why it crashes more than other fighters.
> 
> If you really want to prove MiG-21 is a flying coffin, give me attrition rate figures. I've been searching for them for forever! Without attrition rate, its reduced to sensationalism.



Strange you couldn't spot sarcasm from that guy....

Well, I have no intention to prove Mig-21 a junk unlike you who is desperate to prove JFT inferior to Mig-21 especially to its speed. In the coarse of your arguments you even got agreed that F-35, MKI, Hornet, Rafale etc are useless against the might of Mig-21. 

I like this bird, PAF has been operating J-7 (Mig-21) for decades now..


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## MiG-21

> Ever heard of a joke?
> 
> Strange you couldn't spot sarcasm from that guy....


Sarcasm? Not when an argument is going on. Its like a kid barging in the middle of a conversation and talkin sshit.



> Even many of your countrymen here admitted that the IAF MiG-21 is a flying coffin. Good planes for its time, but damn old. Flying old planes is never really safe.


And now you know the main reason why military is there only to protect democracy, and not follow it. Or else the military will have Politicians like people running it.



> In the coarse of your arguments you even got agreed that F-35, MKI, Hornet, Rafale etc are useless against the might of Mig-21.


Now that is just pathetic, just when I thought you were one of the better members here. Just another guy who can't understand English. What part of "Speed is only a part of the equation and not the whole equation" doesn't your noggin comprehend. Is that too much for ya to absorb fanboy?


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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> Now that is just pathetic, just when I thought you were one of the better members here. Just another guy who can't understand English. What part of "Speed is only a part of the equation and not the whole equation" doesn't your noggin comprehend. Is that too much for ya to absorb fanboy?



Now you are getting earnest... Personal attacks are the last refuge.. 



> What part of "Speed is only a part of the equation and not the whole equation" doesn't your noggin comprehend.



I hope you remember my reply pertaining speed of a jet.... I quote it again for you, will definitely help you understand what wrong is with my English when it comes to Comprehension... 



Emmie said:


> Speed is important but its not everything... Various factors are sacrificed for one particular thing.. Mig-31 has nothing worth mentioning except its speed which makes it a finest interceptor, the worst part of this jet is its radius of combat... Again as I said Mig-31 sacrifices its other capabilities for just speed... MKI has everything but not that speed, same is true for other jets I mentioned..
> Mig-21 is a dedicated fighter/interceptor aircraft, and as per role fighter/interceptor without speed means junk. It has speed but it lacks armament and avionics of a fourth generation aircraft, it will get detected before it detects any jet. JFT on other hand is a fourth generation multirole aircraft, has superior avionics and armaments, can do air to ground/sea attacks along with air to air unlike Mig-21... No way Mig-21 can be compared with Jf-17 or any of others multirole aircraft.
> 
> 
> So it must be true for MKI/Tejas likewise?...... Both J-7 (Mig-21) and any one of two aircrafts are at X distance from a target and are at 12 O clock of each other.. J-7 can get to the target (assume IAF bomber) faster and destroy it and can make an escape before MKI/Tejas show up.... Means J-7 completed its mission while MKI/tejas has a mission failure..
> 
> Hey, I didnt know even our MirageIII and 5 are good against MKI!!!



Right from the start you loomed to be the one who is just not satisfied with others PoV... Comparing a third generation aircraft with a fourth generation aircraft, interestingly the bases of comparison is the speed... Is it hard for you to comprehend differences between various generations? 

Rendering others to acknowledge your unfounded drift does not make any sense to anyone Mr. fanboy.


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## Major Shaheb

houshanghai said:


> you like to disparage jf17 very much , which is already a undisputed 4 gen fighter in world. But you guy still claimed that JF17 is only a 3rd +++ crappp fighter,copyyyy ,which is only a derivative of the J7/mig21.
> well ,you need a out-of-date bird,then my opinion is that you should buy USA F35 ,it is the most modern 5gen figher ,


 
Wow, that is brilliant. 5th Generation F35 as stop-gap for 4.5 generation. Are you on drugs!!!

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## MiG-21

@emmie
It ain't no personal attack when I'm just telling you who you are. Implying all those Aircraft are useless against the MiG-21.. when I never said such a thing. Is that another one of those lame jokes?

Why is it so hard for you to accept the MiG-21 has advantages over JF-17 in certain interception scenarios? Why is it so hard for you to accept that a MiG-21 if outgunned can use its speed as its defense and make a tactical retreat out of the hot-zone, far better than the JF-17. Why can't such a situation be compared with a JF-17? JF-17 will never face such a situation according to you?
Or are you implying multirole fighters don't have much speed because they have to concentrate on other capabilities? MiG-29 has both speed and multirole capabilities. So does the Su-27 & the F-15. Hell even the single engined multirole Gripen & Mirage-2000 has both. Just because JF-17 doesn't have speed, suddenly speed became a non-issue? USAF was so concerned about the time spent during a mission in the hostile hot zone, they asked the designers to make F-22 raptor's speed high and at the same time fuel efficient. Hence super cruise was born. F-22 can reach 1.8M without using afterburners. With afterburners, it can reach 2.25M. I guess everyone are morons then, and only JF-17's designers and it's fanboys are right in keeping JF-17s speed low.

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## Major Shaheb

farhan_9909 said:


> Hello
> whats up
> 
> Sir why do you think JFT is slightly better than F-7BGI?only because of almost same t/w ratio and the ratio you quoted is also wrong
> the specs you are seeing on net of JFT are nt updated since 2007-2008 while the JFT is getting upgrading with the passage of time..
> 
> the real t/w ratio of JFT is well over 1..as said in the UK airshow 2010.
> the rd-93 with 86kn thrust give 0.95 ratio to JFT bt since in zhuhai airshow we knew that the rd-93 has a maximum thrust of 98kn which give over 1 t/w ratio to JFT.
> 
> JFT carry 4 ton payload while F&BGI only 2 ton.
> JFT range is 3400km and F7BGI only 2200km
> *JFT is BVR capable while F-7BGI nt*
> JFT weapons include anti ship c-80x with a decent range,anti radiation mar 1 from brazil,BVR,WVR(A darter or the latest chineese one),cruise missile ra'ad,h2/4(PGM),
> making JFT a true multirole
> *while f-7BGI carry only WVR and PGM*
> JFT is much more advance in avionics era..comparing JFT in avionics with *F-7BGI is totally BS*.
> 
> ++
> Now JFT advantage over f-7BGI
> BVR capable
> anti role
> anti radiation/SEAD
> more payload
> better radar and avionics
> more good weapons package
> more payload
> *HMD,HUD,
> full glass cockpit
> *more range
> cruise missile option on table
> higher t/w ratio
> more agile
> and more good looking
> nt to forgot that JFT 2 specs will be the standard specs used for JFT only after an year.which include alot of goodies
> ENJOY


 
First of all u r showing PAF F-7PG specs and forcing us to believe it belongs to F-7BGI of which much specification is still unknown to public. Sounds like u were there when PM signed deal with China. 
Secondly, the specs u r giving are belong to BAF F-7MB. 

Thirdly, where the hell did u find that F-7BG is not BVR capable. F-7BG has KLJ-6F BVR-capable fire control radar and PL-12 medium range air to air missiles, which have a range of 70 km.

Forthly, F-7BGI is not exactly the same as F-7BG. Its avionics has been highly improved over F-7BG. F-7BG is BVR capable and F-7BGI will not be!!! are u taking any Afghanistani weed or something!!!

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## Major Shaheb

farhan_9909 said:


> Zabaniya said:
> 
> 
> 
> Al-Khalid is the Pakistani version of the MBT-2000.QUOTE]
> 
> *Sir Pakistan has funded the AL khalid aka MBT-2000 project.*
> 
> *MBT-2000/type 90 is chineese name of this project and we call it AL khalid*
> 
> pakistan hold 50% development as well as fund share in this project.
> 
> *Pakistan has full rights to even sell the Al khalid to any nation*
> 
> sri lanka was the one whom has even placed order bt later withdraw.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sir,
> 
> Al-Khalid and MBT-2000 are not the same thing. Al-Khalid is the Pakistan's *license built* version of MBT-2000. Please, for god sake stop bullsh!tting.
Click to expand...

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## Obambam

artie said:


> can't believe Bangladeshi Air Force leaders decided to purchase shitty aircrafts from the world-notorious copycat rather than its best neighbour India whose aircrafts are far more superior.



 why not order from your country Vietnam instead? they have far superior indigenous aircrafts right?

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## Major Shaheb

farhan_9909 said:


> JFT offer all the tech a 4th gen fighter can
> and is considered a 4th gen fighter throughout the world except in your case
> 
> wait one year till the block 2 enter.
> from specs block 2 is comparable to block 52 f-16



Thank God! you did not compare JF-17block1 with F-16block62, coz some of your Pakistani brothers already claimed that JF-17block1 is superior to F-16block52.


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## Major Shaheb

ziaulislam said:


> well
> i have heard no one claiming that jf-17 is less than 4th gen(chines 3rd gen) aircraft..except indian fanboys..
> 
> the desgn and avionics itself tells the story..u cant expect BVRs in 3rd gen aircrafts..
> 
> anyway i have said number of times thats its impossible atleast in the current govt to buy anything even remotely attached to pakistan..
> 
> anyway f-7 desicion is a good one as operating mig29 and j-10 are costly and require expetise to induct new palteforms..*jf-17 would have been an excellent option* but...politics...


 
Yeah right!!!, a 3++ generation aircraft that failed to get a single customer, with $20mln+ pricetag, did not even been able to enter service with the primary builder, and even failed as a stop-gap aircraft, would have been an excellent option. oh sorry, u mentioned, all of the above happened because of politics.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> If F-7 is BVR capable, what missile does it fire?


 
PL-12 idiot.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## kobiraaz

major R u related to Bangladesh air force??? Working there?

---------- Post added at 12:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 AM ----------




Major Shaheb said:


> Yeah right!!!, a 3++ generation aircraft that failed to get a single customer, with $20mln+ pricetag, did not even been able to enter service with the primary builder, and even failed as a stop-gap aircraft, would have been an excellent option. oh sorry, u mentioned, all of the above happened because of politics.



Jf17 needs more time. It is not prepared yet....


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## MiG-21

Hmm... doesn't F-7BG have KLJ-6E Non- bvr radar..
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ladesh-air-forces-f-7bg-poor-mans-f-16-a.html

Would be helpful if you can provide a link to KLJ-6F on F-7BG, Major saheb. 

Would be interesting to compare it with Bisons if the F variant is indeed on F-7BG. *rubs hands with glee*


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## Emmie

MiG-21 said:


> @emmie
> It ain't no personal attack when I'm just telling you who you are. Implying all those Aircraft are useless against the MiG-21.. when I never said such a thing. Is that another one of those lame jokes?
> 
> Why is it so hard for you to accept the MiG-21 has advantages over JF-17 in certain interception scenarios? Why is it so hard for you to accept that a MiG-21 if outgunned can use its speed as its defense and make a tactical retreat out of the hot-zone, far better than the JF-17. Why can't such a situation be compared with a JF-17? JF-17 will never face such a situation according to you?
> Or are you implying multirole fighters don't have much speed because they have to concentrate on other capabilities? MiG-29 has both speed and multirole capabilities. So does the Su-27 & the F-15. Hell even the single engined multirole Gripen & Mirage-2000 has both. Just because JF-17 doesn't have speed, suddenly speed became a non-issue? USAF was so concerned about the time spent during a mission in the hostile hot zone, they asked the designers to make F-22 raptor's speed high and at the same time fuel efficient. Hence super cruise was born. F-22 can reach 1.8M without using afterburners. With afterburners, it can reach 2.25M. I guess everyone are morons then, and only JF-17's designers and it's fanboys are right in keeping JF-17s speed low.




Listen mate as I have said earlier speed is not only a factor that determines an aircrafts capability. JFT in comparison to Mig-21 definitely has a lower speed but this so-called issue does not exclusively entertain JFT, there are other aircrafts like F-35, Su-30MKI, Hornet, Rafale who suffer this alleged defect. If speed was everything then the west must have had made blunders toward their jets. The fact is above mentioned a/cs are much much much superior to Mig-21 by every aspect. They have longer range, advance armaments, advance avionics, superior design which enhances their maneuverability. Their radars would detect Mig-21 from hundreds of Kms and would destroy it by a BVR missile without even going near to it, Mig-21 wouldnt even have any idea about the situation. So comparing Mig-21 with JFT or with any other aircraft absolutely makes no sense. 
If Mig-21 is still that good as you are portraying then its very stupid on IAF and PAF parts for having intentions of replacing it with Tejas and JFT respectively.
P.S: I am not at sensitive to JFT Your demeanor towards JFT entices people including to come that way, every single point of yours revolves around JFT

And Yeah, your previous post was attacking


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## eastwatch

This is not a thread about comparison of F-7BGI with JF Thunder or any other planes. I am sending herewith the Janes report for others to read. It and other sources imply that F-7BGI will be a different/distinct plane with a look quite different from earlier versions and with enhanced functions. 

However, no one knows yet if there will be two additional hardpoints over its present five. The plane is certainly a BVR capable one. I have already posted its technical specifications that completely support its BVR capability. I hope it will have a higher loading capacity and a higher T/W ratio. I will post any information that I lay hand on.

I hope, after reading the Jane's report, posters will get rid of their apprehension about this BGIs, 16 units of which will be inducted by the BAF. The Jane's also quotes BAF Chief as saying that BAF will induct another 3 sq. of planes after 2020. These will certainly be 4.5++ generation planes. 

Because BAF wants to induct a much higher quality planes in the future, therefore, this time it is buying 3+ generation BGIs and did not induct planes like 3++ generation FC-1/JFT. I think, negotiations have already been started in this regard, because fighter planes need time to build. Thanks.

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6115/6390072521_15fe02a020_b.jpg


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## eastwatch

Zabaniya said:


> If F-7 is BVR capable, what missile does it fire?



You must have a weird mind. You are sticking to the words F-7, and not to F-7MB, F-7BG or F-7BGI. Even F-7BG is BVR capable, but from the very beginning you are propagating that BGI will not be BVR capable. Where the hell do you get your information? Learn to differentiate among the grades of planes.


F-7BG Multirole Fighter Aircraft 

The F-7BG is a multirole BVR capable aircraft manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, China. It was especially built to meet Bangladesh Air Force's requirements for a cost-effective multi role fighter. It is said to be the most advanced version of the F-7 combat aircraft to date.

Development

Dubbed F-7BG the fighter is capable of performing all weather, day/night air defence operations and ground attack with a new range of armaments and avionics that set it apart from the other F-7MBs that have been in service since 1989.

At present 16 F-7BGs are in the BAFs inventory and have been in service since 2006 though it intends to procure up to 70 more BVR-capable F-7BGs in total to strengthen its interception capabilities.

Compared to the older generation F-7MBs, the F-7BGs feature a large array of improvements as listed below.

Major improvements

The F-7BG airframe has essentially the same F-7MB fuselage, inner wing portion, tail plane and fin. The outer wing section incorporates the major change, with a reduced 42 deg sweep and automatic manoeuvring flaps. The F-7BG is powered with an improved and more powerful WP-13 engine, Liyang (LMC) WP-13F (R-13-300) turbojet rated at 44.1kN dry and 66.7kN with afterburning. Additionally, cockpit layout, avionics and several ancillary systems have been changed, in line with modern trends. The important systems that remain unchanged (compared to the J-7E) are the fuel system, weapons payload capacity and internal guns.


----------



## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Thank God! you did not compare JF-17block1 with F-16block62, coz some of your Pakistani brothers *already claimed that JF-17block1 is superior to F-16block52*.



And uh, who are these imaginary Pakistanis who claimed that?



Major Shaheb said:


> PL-12 idiot.



Proof? PL-12's export designation is SD-10A. 



eastwatch said:


> You must have a weird mind. You are sticking to the words F-7, and not to F-7MB, F-7BG or F-7BGI. Even F-7BG is BVR capable,* but from the very beginning you are propagating that BGI will not be BVR capable. *Where the hell do you get your information? Learn to differentiate among the grades of planes.



Nope. I am only asking for evidence. 



eastwatch said:


> F-7BG Multirole Fighter Aircraft
> 
> The F-7BG is a multirole BVR capable aircraft manufactured by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, China. It was especially built to meet Bangladesh Air Force's requirements for a cost-effective multi role fighter. It is said to be the most advanced version of the F-7 combat aircraft to date.
> 
> Development
> 
> Dubbed F-7BG the fighter is capable of performing all weather, day/night air defence operations and ground attack with a new range of armaments and avionics that set it apart from the other F-7MBs that have been in service since 1989.
> 
> At present 16 F-7BGs are in the BAFs inventory and have been in service since 2006 though it intends to procure up to 70 more BVR-capable F-7BGs in total to strengthen its interception capabilities.
> 
> Compared to the older generation F-7MBs, the F-7BGs feature a large array of improvements as listed below.
> 
> Major improvements
> 
> The F-7BG airframe has essentially the same F-7MB fuselage, inner wing portion, tail plane and fin. The outer wing section incorporates the major change, with a reduced 42 deg sweep and automatic manoeuvring flaps. The F-7BG is powered with an improved and more powerful WP-13 engine, Liyang (LMC) WP-13F (R-13-300) turbojet rated at 44.1kN dry and 66.7kN with afterburning. Additionally, cockpit layout, avionics and several ancillary systems have been changed, in line with modern trends. The important systems that remain unchanged (compared to the J-7E) are the fuel system, weapons payload capacity and internal guns.



Sources? Where does it say that BAF actively uses SD-10A? 

Here is the Jane's report:


> LONDON November 20, 2007: According to Janes Defense Weekly website reported on November 17, Bangladesh has Not long ago, the Chinese ordered 16 F-7BGI fighter. Air Force Commander, General Meng Zi Ao Rahman recently attended an international conference in London announced that the newly purchased 16 F-7BGI delivery from 2012 onwards. However, he did not disclose the specific parties involved in the transaction amount. Presumably, these new aircraft will be deployed near the capital located in Meng Assad Air Base Squadron 21 for replacement of old equipment, A-5C attack aircraft.
> F-7BGI is the latest model MiG-21 family, from Chinas Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group F-7 previously developed improvements made. Ziao Rahman said the general description, these new aircraft will be equipped with improved onboard systems, including hands on the bar control device (HOTAS), three multi-function displays and a HUD. The machine also has the ability to use guided weapons, the use of GPS signals to transmit high-precision air-guided bombs. Since its inception in the 1950s, MiG-21 has become the largest global production after World War II as a fighter, but the Chinese F-7BGI new orders received, making the production of MiG-21 series aircraft will be able to last until 2012 .
> Bangladesh Air Force has long been China Series F-7 fighter one of the major users. Since 1989, the country has imported 44 batches of the type of aircraft, including 16 F-7MB and 16 F-BG fighter, 8 FT-7MB and four FT-7BG trainer. According to statistics, is still serving Meng Air Force F-7 series aircraft a total of 31, were deployed in Dhaka  &#24211;&#23572;&#31859;&#25176;&#25289; Air Force Base.
> air force commander said Meng, Meng purchase F-7BGI just before the Air Force in the new generation of fighter aircraft transitional measures. According to the plan, Meng Air Force will be purchased in the last 13-15 years, 20-32 new fighter aircraft, and most likely to be selected models, including the United States Lockheed Martin F-16, Russias MiG-29SMT and Su-30, and the Swedish Saab JAS-39 and so on.
> In addition, the Bangladesh Air Force will purchase a number of new trainer aircraft, used to replace the existing fleet of L-39, while in 1999, equipped with 10 Russian-made MiG-29 fighters will also be upgraded in the coming years. (Compass)



Source: Bangladesh ordered 16 F-7BGI used to replace the old A-5C attack aircraft « Military of China, force comment.

The only evidence I see is that the MiG-29s are BVR capable in the BAF. That includes R-27s and RVVs. 

Nowhere does it say that the F-7BGI is BVR capable. And since it is going to replace the A-5s, it can be safely assumed that the BGI is in fact more suited for CAS operations. That is, it has more potent ground attack capabilities compared to other variants. 

I Google "F-7BGI is BVR capable". And this thread is the only result I get! 

Again, I ask for evidence. Not mere hearsay.

@Members, is the F-7PG capable of firing the SD-10?


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## MiG-21

^Neither F-7PG nor BG can fire BVR missiles.



> Listen mate as I have said earlier speed is not only a factor that determines an aircraft&#8217;s capability. JFT in comparison to Mig-21 definitely has a lower speed but this so-called issue does not exclusively entertain JFT, there are other aircrafts like F-35, Su-30MKI, Hornet, Rafale who suffer this alleged defect. If speed was everything then the west must have had made blunders toward their jets. The fact is above mentioned a/cs are much much much superior to Mig-21 by every aspect. They have longer range, advance armaments, advance avionics, superior design which enhances their maneuverability. Their radars would detect Mig-21 from hundreds of Kms and would destroy it by a BVR missile without even going near to it, Mig-21 wouldn&#8217;t even have any idea about the situation. So comparing Mig-21 with JFT or with any other aircraft absolutely makes no sense.
> If Mig-21 is still that good as you are portraying then it&#8217;s very stupid on IAF and PAF parts for having intentions of replacing it with Tejas and JFT respectively.
> P.S: I am not at sensitive to JFT&#8230; Your demeanor towards JFT entices people including to come that way, every single point of yours revolves around JFT&#8230;
> 
> And Yeah, your previous post was attacking&#8230;


That is what I've been saying as well. If the MiG-21 goes to engage those fighters head on, then it will get killed. All this started because I've said MiG-21 has higher speeds than JFT, and continued that having speed has its own advantages in certain *interception and tactical-retreat* conditions. And that is not wrong. If having speed is useless in this BVR era, then F-22 designers wouldn't have bothered with it. The fact that they did, and even improved(super cruise) on that aspect tells the story on its importance. If having speed is useless in this BVR era, then the russians wouldn't have bothered with their own super cruise in their T-50 5th generation fighter. All this says a lot on the importance of having speed.


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## Zabaniyah

I haven't seen a single picture or video of a JF-17 firing an SD-10 missile. This tells us that it still hasn't completed its systems integration phase which will all be complete by the middle of next year. 

How would any F-7 do that? Capable of firing an SD-10?  I am confused. This is the only thread that comes up after Google search! 

People, understand this:
The grifo 7 radar is designed to fit in the F-7s nose. If you see F-7 carefully, it has a small room for the radar, so PAF had encountered difficulty in finding a good radar for F-7s .

For an advanced radar, you need a bigger room.

The Mig-21 on the other hand has a bigger nose. Hence, it can easily house a radar for BVR capability example. Mig-21 Bison.

Yes, there are minor but important differences between the F-7 and MiG-21 

The Mirage has an advanced version of griffo as compared to Griffo7, it has been designated as Griffo M (M for mirage ie specially designed for it).

I m telling you by quoting a reliable reference. If there were any remote chances of F-7 capable of launching BVRs then PAF must had been conducted the tests.

Go search, see the live firing exercises, F-7 can only be seen strafing and firing infrared A-A missiles.


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## eastwatch

Zabaniya said:


> Source: Bangladesh ordered 16 F-7BGI used to replace the old A-5C attack aircraft « Military of China, force comment.
> 
> The only evidence I see is that the MiG-29s are BVR capable in the BAF. That includes R-27s and RVVs.
> 
> Nowhere does it say that the F-7BGI is BVR capable. And since it is going to replace the A-5s, it can be safely assumed that the BGI is in fact more suited for CAS operations. That is, it has more potent ground attack capabilities compared to other variants.
> 
> I Google "F-7BGI is BVR capable". And this thread is the only result I get!
> 
> Again, I ask for evidence. Not mere hearsay.
> 
> @Members, is the F-7PG capable of firing the SD-10?



What more spoon-feeding evidence do you need to know that BGI is a BVR capable plane? Haven't you read through the links in the post Nos. 296 and 321? Or you have problem with English comprehension? Better go back to KG and learn how to understand English. You must be the stupidiest of all the posters. You come out of your way to support Indian biased views in all of the threads. Now, you are coming here to prove a Pakistani position that BGI is not BVR capable. 

This is a defence forum. A citizen of BD is supposed to endorse a CORRECT statement with regard to his country's military matters. But, you are just like an open legged prostitute waiting for other countries' posters to f::: you. You enjoy it, no doubt. But, before you post again learn another basic of a defence Forum. A citizen must stick to the defence of his motherland. Learn the basics, you idiot Thailandian!


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## MiG-21

Yea, F-7PG/BG nose is too small to be able house a powerful BVR compatible radar. The radar nose cone size difference between PG - BG, and Bison is clearly visible. 

PAF mirages can use a bvr missile compatible radar, but there is no proof that it has that capability. It's been said that since the mirages are so old and to be retired soon, PAF chose not undertake the costly BVR A-A missile upgrade.


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## Zabaniyah

You know eastwatch, that's funny coming from one of the oldest persons here  

Insults aside...

Let's have a look at your post# 296:

This was source? Yes? 
J-7 / F-7 - Airforce Technology

Let's see what they have to say about Bangladesh:


> The Bangladeshi Air Force purchased 16 F-7MB, 16 F-7BG and eight FT-7B aircraft. *These F-7MB aircraft will be replaced with 100 beyond visual range-capable F-7BGs by 2010.*



The year 2010 has already passed. Since when did Bangladesh come up 100 F-7BGs? Is the source reliable as far a Bangladesh goes? 

Post #321:
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6115/6390072521_15fe02a020_b.jpg

Where in the article does it say that the BGI will be BVR capable? 

Here's what it says regarding the F-7BGI:


> The new variant has been fitted with improved avionics that includes hands-on-throttle-and-stick (HOTAS), three multi-function displays and a head-up display. They can be equipped with both air-to-air missiles and GPS guided munitions.



This article was already posted by the OP. 

HOTAS:


> HOTAS, an abbreviation for Hands On Throttle-And-Stick, is the name given to the concept of placing buttons and switches on the throttle stick and flight control stick in an aircraft's cockpit, allowing the pilot to access vital cockpit functions and fly the aircraft without having to remove his hands from the throttle and flight controls. Application of the concept was pioneered by the English Electric Lightning and is widely used on all modern fighter aircraft such as the F-16 Fighting Falcon.



You see if you read the article carefully, the key feature of the F-7BGI is the ability to carry GPS guided munitions. This is something that neither the F-7MB nor the F-7BG had. 

This F-7BGI is intended to replace the aging A-5s for that very purpose - advanced ground attack. 

The F-7BG may have some potential to fire BVR missiles, but is Bangladesh an active user of the SD-10 missile? It usually isn't cost effective to fit a missile like that on such a limited platform. 

Show me one picture ANY F-7 variant firing the SD-10A, and then I'll believe you 

SD-10 fitted on J-10:






JF-17 firing a PL-5 missile (infrared guided):





You see, not even the JF-17 isn't fully integrated enough (yet) to fire the particular missile (SD-10) in focus. Just how would an F-7 fire a missile like SD-10? 

And please, I respectfully request you not to base it on mere assumptions and hearsay. Just hard facts. My request is simple.


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## eastwatch

MiG-21 said:


> Yea, F-7PG/BG nose is too small to be able house a powerful BVR compatible radar. The radar nose cone size difference between PG - BG, and Bison is clearly visible.
> 
> PAF mirages can use a bvr missile compatible radar, but there is no proof that it has that capability. It's been said that since the mirages are so old and to be retired soon, PAF chose not undertake the costly BVR A-A missile upgrade.



BGI will look quite different from other F-7 variants in order to accomodate BVR. So, its frame and nose will get modifications. It may also look different from F-7 family's other variants. Since China produces PL-12/SD10 AAMs, therefore, BGI hard points will be able to fit this missile. Note that Pl-12 and SD-10, these two designations stand for the same missile. PL-12/SD-10 missiles have been fitted with Pakistan's JFTs.

I hope two more hard points are added and the oil tank capacity is enlarged so as to allow this plane go a farther distance. We will know about the changed specifications when they are declassified or when the plane arrives in BD.


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## Areesh

Zabaniya said:


> @Members, is the F-7PG capable of firing the SD-10?


 
I don't think so. Most probably PAF F-7 pg are capable of firing H2, H4 BVR glide bombs.


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## Emmie

Zabaniya said:


> @Members, is the F-7PG capable of firing the SD-10?



Capable of firing SD-10, yes....... Does it fire, no.. SD-10 is not for F-7s..


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## Zabaniyah

Emmie said:


> Capable of firing SD-10, yes....... Does it fire, no.. SD-10 is not for F-7s..



I'd suppose it's impractical? What are the technical limitations of firing the SD-10 from an F-7 platform? Elaborate if possible


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> And uh, who are these *imaginary Pakistanis* who claimed that?



*MZUBAIR: Location: Lahore. Flagged: Pakistan*

Re: What about jf-17 for bangladesh airforce?

Yes JF17[All wather, Night Missions, BVR engagements, HUD, DECOY, FLIRS, HOTAS, GPS, KLJ7] inferior to Block 52 but equilvant capable to F16 Blk 40 [BVR, Long Range Radars, HUD, GPS, APG-68V, DECOY, FLIRS, optics heads-up display, electronic countermeasures, Bombing Moving Ground Targets]. 

F16BLK15 [Cannot perform in all weather, night missions and BVR] is inferrior to JF17


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## Major Sam

Major Shaheb said:


> *MZUBAIR: Location: Lahore. Flagged: Pakistan*
> 
> Re: What about jf-17 for bangladesh airforce?
> 
> Yes JF17[All wather, Night Missions, BVR engagements, HUD, DECOY, FLIRS, HOTAS, GPS, KLJ7] inferior to Block 52 but equilvant capable to F16 Blk 40 [BVR, Long Range Radars, HUD, GPS, APG-68V, DECOY, FLIRS, optics heads-up display, electronic countermeasures, Bombing Moving Ground Targets].
> 
> F16BLK15 [Cannot perform in all weather, night missions and BVR] is inferrior to JF17



this is a JF-17 block 2 and what he said is right.. BTW where he wrote its better than Block52? can u read properly


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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Thank God! you did not compare JF-17block1 with F-16block62, coz some of your Pakistani brothers already claimed that *JF-17block1 is superior to F-16block52.*





Major Shaheb said:


> *MZUBAIR: Location: Lahore. Flagged: Pakistan*
> 
> Re: What about jf-17 for bangladesh airforce?
> 
> Yes JF17[All wather, Night Missions, BVR engagements, HUD, DECOY, FLIRS, HOTAS, GPS, KLJ7] *inferior to Block 52 but equilvant capable to F16 Blk 40* [BVR, Long Range Radars, HUD, GPS, APG-68V, DECOY, FLIRS, optics heads-up display, electronic countermeasures, Bombing Moving Ground Targets].
> 
> F16BLK15 [Cannot perform in all weather, night missions and BVR] is inferrior to JF17



*facepalm*


etrye


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## Emmie

Zabaniya said:


> I'd suppose it's impractical? What are the technical limitations of firing the SD-10 from an F-7 platform? Elaborate if possible



Being capable of firing SD-10 and being fully equipped with SD-10 are two different things... What all I said was "F-7 PG is capable of firing SD-10 but it does not fire"... Now that means it is not equipped with SD-10.

F-7PG is configured with Grifo MG (65 km search and 45 track)... SD-10 has range more than 70 Kms... In order to utilize this missile effectively your radar's range got be at least 100 kms, this would enable you to get a lock at handsome range. Now considering the current range of radar in F-7 PG, pilot won't be able to utilize the maximum range of SD-10 but still Pilot can fire it within the limitations of radar... PAF is not considering this option because PAF will be replacing its F-7 fleet with JF-17...


Excerpt from Jane's Air Launched Weapons 2003...



> The SD-10 is not yet believed to be in PLAAF service, but is in an advanced stage of development and may have been released for operational test and evaluation with the air force.* According to CATIC, the SD-10 can be carried by a range of aircraft including the J-7 (F-7),* J-8 (F- and MiG-series fighters, or any Western aircraft that have been fitted with the missile's PF95 launcher and pylon. *The obvious radar limitations of these aircraft make it clear that they will probably never be fitted with the SD-10, at least in Chinese service
> 
> JDW: China SD-10 Missile Technology (maybe better than U.S. AIM-120 missile )
> 
> *

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Patriot

Zabaniya said:


> I'd suppose it's impractical? What are the technical limitations of firing the SD-10 from an F-7 platform? Elaborate if possible


PAF thought about equipping F-7 platform with BVR missiles however it was considered impratical because of the fact that F-7 nose is tiny and you cannot house decent radar in the nose so no guidance for Missile.BVR Missiles require initial target coordinates via fighter jet or awacs radar.

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## Major Shaheb

*For those of you who have been BULLSH!TTING about FC-1/JF-17:

FC-1/JF-17*

As modelled in: HutchDB 0.9 (1980-2015 Alternate)
GENERAL DATA:
Length (m): 14 Climb Rate (m/sec): 31	
Wingspan (m): 9 Unloaded ATA: 3	
Weight (kg): 6321 Loaded ATA: 1	
Crew: 1	
SENSORS & EW:
Model Max. Range Abilities Notes
Blue Sky FLIR 10 Surface Search, Air Search, Bearing Information IR sensor
Blue Sky Laser 5 Surface Search, Range Information Laser designator & rangefinder
Blue Sky TRF 1 Altitude Information Radar
LETRI JL-10A Shen Ying 75 Surface Search, Air Search, Range Information, Bearing Information, 
IFF Information Radar
SWCRIE KG-8602 RWR 50 Surface Search, Air Search, Bearing Information Passive RWR/ESM/SIGINT
SWCRIE KG-8605 DECM 0 Surface Search, Air Search Active jammer

MOUNTS & STORES/WEAPONS:

Mounts (Guns/Launchers/Ejectors/etc.)
(Mount/ROF/Armor/Onboard Sensors/Capacity/Weapons per mount)
Aircraft Decoy Launcher/1/None/None/10/5x Generic Flare (max. 5) 5x Generic Chaff (I/J/K Bands) (max. 5)
23mm GSh-23L (MiG-21/23)/1/None/None/4/4x 23mm GSh Burst (max. 4)


Aircraft Stores
Store/Speed/Release Envelope/Altitude Release Envelope
480 liter Drop Tank No restrictions	No restrictions
C.701 Yingji-7	0 - 800 kts	0 - 20000 metres
C.801 (YJ-6) CSS-N-4 Sardine	0 - 660 kts	-20 - 20000 metres
C.802 (YJ-6) CSS-C-8 Saccade	0 - 660 kts	0 - 20000 metres
C.802K (YJ-6) Saccade	0 - 660 kts	200 - 20000 metres
C.803 CSS-C-8 Yingji-83	0 - 800 kts	0 - 20000 metres
LS-500J 500kg LGB	0 - 2000 kts	1000 - 11000 metres
PL-10	0 - 2000 kts	40 - 20000 metres
PL-9C Dikong	0 - 2000 kts	0 - 25000 metres
Type 130 130mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
Type 200 Anti-Runway Bomb	0 - 660 kts	80 - 3500 metres
Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb	No restrictions	No restrictions
Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb	0 - 2000 kts	40 - 20000 metres
Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb	0 - 2000 kts	10 - 20000 metres
Type 57 57mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
Type 90 90mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
YJ-5 Ying Ji ARM	0 - 2000 kts	160 - 540 metres


Aircraft Loadouts
Loadout	Ready Time	Stores
ATA #285 (PL-10)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 4x PL-10 
ATA #286 (PL-10)	0min	4x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 
ATA LR #118 (PL-10)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 
IB #145 (Type 250 Bombs)	0min	12x Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb 2x PL-9C Dikong
IB #146 (Type 500 Bombs)	0min	6x Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb 2x PL-9C Dikong
IB LR #207 (Type 250 Bombs)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 6x Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb
IB LR #208 (Type 500 Bombs)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 4x Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb 2x PL-9C Dikong
OCA #36 (Type 200)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 8x Type 200 Anti-Runway Bomb
OCA LR #34 (Type 200)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 4x Type 200 Anti-Runway Bomb
PGM-B #56 (LS-500J LGB)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 4x LS-500J 500kg LGB
PGM-B LR #149 (LS-500J LGB)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x LS-500J 500kg LGB
PGM-M #73 (C.701)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 4x C.701 Yingji-7
PGM-M LR #155 (C.701)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x C.701 Yingji-7
SEAD-M #114 (YJ-5 ARM)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 4x YJ-5 Ying Ji ARM
SEAD-M LR #72 (YJ-5 ARM)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x YJ-5 Ying Ji ARM
SO #341 (C.801)	0min	2x C.801 (YJ-6) CSS-N-4 Sardine 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 
SO #342 (C.802)	0min	2x C.802 (YJ-6) CSS-C-8 Saccade 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 
SO #343 (C.802K)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 2x C.802K (YJ-6) Saccade 2x PL-10 
SO #344 (C.803)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 2x C.803 CSS-C-8 Yingji-83 2x PL-10 
SO LR #229 (C.801)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 1x C.801 (YJ-6) CSS-N-4 Sardine 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 
SO LR #230 (C.802)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 1x C.802 (YJ-6) CSS-C-8 Saccade 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 
SO LR #231 (C.802K)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 1x C.802K (YJ-6) Saccade
SO LR #232 (C.803)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x PL-10 1x C.803 CSS-C-8 Yingji-83
UG-C #39 (Type 250-3 CBU)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 8x Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb
UG-C LR #81 (Type 250-3 CBU)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 4x Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb 2x PL-9C Dikong
UG-R #06 (Type 90 Rockets)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 56x Type 90 90mm Rocket
UG-R #07 (Type 130 Rockets)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 32x Type 130 130mm Rocket
UG-R #145 (Type 57 Rockets)	0min	2x PL-9C Dikong 88x Type 57 57mm Rocket
UG-R LR #100 (Type 57 Rockets)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 44x Type 57 57mm Rocket
UG-R LR #101 (Type 90 Rockets)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 28x Type 90 90mm Rocket 2x PL-9C Dikong
UG-R LR #102 (Type 130 Rockets)	0min	2x 480 liter Drop Tank 16x Type 130 130mm Rocket 2x PL-9C Dikong

General Flags 
Probe Refuelling
Terrain Avoidance
Computing Bombsight
Medium Runway
Fly-by-Wire
Medium Aircraft


----------



## ziaulislam

f-7s cant be used for bvr ..
even the most advanced f-7s, the f-7PG cant actively guide a sd-10 effectively due to radar limitations.
its not the range its azimuth or search range it can search in +/- 30 which isnt good enough for more practical uses..
so f-7 isnt an effective BVR aircraft.

thats why paying 12 million for f-7 isnt a good idea when u get jf-17 for 18-20 million.


----------



## Major Shaheb

*J-7BG Fishbed*

As modelled in: HutchDB 0.9 (1980-2015 Alternate)
GENERAL DATA:
Length (m): 13.9 Climb Rate (m/sec): 150	
Wingspan (m): 7.2 Unloaded ATA: 4	
Weight (kg): 5275 Loaded ATA: 2	
Crew: 1 
SENSORS & EW:
Model	Max. Range	Abilities	Notes
Blue Sky FLIR 10 Surface Search, Air Search, Bearing Information IR sensor
Blue Sky Laser 5 Surface Search, Range Information Laser designator & rangefinder
NRIET/CETC's KLJ-6F	65	Air Intercept, Range Information, Bearing Information, IFF Information	Radar
SWCRIE KG-8602 RWR	50	Surface Search, Air Search, Bearing Information	Passive RWR/ESM/SIGINT
SWCRIE KG-8605 DECM	0	Surface Search, Air Search	Active jammer

MOUNTS & STORES/WEAPONS:

Mounts (Guns/Launchers/Ejectors/etc.)
Mount	ROF	Armor	Onboard Sensors	Capacity	Weapons (per mount)
Aircraft Decoy Launcher	1	None	None	10	5x Generic Flare (max. 5)
5x Generic Chaff (I/J/K Bands) (max. 5)
23mm NR-23 (PRC)	1	None	None	20	20x 23mm Burst (PRC) (max. 20)


Aircraft Stores
Store	Speed Release Envelope	Altitude Release Envelope
720 liter Drop Tank	No restrictions	No restrictions
PL-5B/E	0 - 2000 kts	10 - 15000 metres
PL-7	0 - 2000 kts	0 - 15000 metres
PL-9C Dikong	0 - 2000 kts	0 - 25000 metres
Type 130 130mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb	No restrictions	No restrictions
Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb	0 - 2000 kts	40 - 20000 metres
Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb	0 - 2000 kts	10 - 20000 metres
Type 57 57mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
Type 90 90mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres


Aircraft Loadouts
Loadout	Ready Time	Stores
ATA #27 (PL-7)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-7 
ATA #280 (PL-9C)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-9C Dikong
ATA #43 (PL-5B)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-5B 
ATA LR #10 (PL-7)	0min	2x PL-7 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
ATA LR #117 (PL-9C)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-9C Dikong
ATA LR #13 (PL-5E)	0min	2x PL-5B 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
IB #52 (Type 500 500kg Bomb)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb
IB #79 (Type 250 250kg Bomb)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 8x Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb
IB LR #32 (Type 500 Bombs)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb
IB LR #52 (Type 250 250kg Bomb)	0min	2x Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
OCA #36 (Type 200)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 4x Type 200 Anti-Runway Bomb
OCA LR #34 (Type 200)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 4x Type 200 Anti-Runway Bomb
PGM-B #56 (LS-500J LGB)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x LS-500J 500kg LGB
PGM-B LR #149 (LS-500J LGB)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-9C Dikong 2x LS-500J 500kg LGB
UG-C #111 (Type 250-3 CBU)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 4x Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb
UG-C LR #77 (Type 250-3 CBU)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb
UG-R #135 (Type 130 Rockets)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 16x Type 130 130mm Rocket
UG-R #42 (Type 90 Rockets)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 28x Type 90 90mm Rocket
UG-R #44 (Type 57 Rockets)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 66x Type 57 57mm Rocket
UG-R LR #17 (Type 57 Rockets)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 22x Type 57 57mm Rocket
UG-R LR #18 (Type 90 Rockets)	0min	14x Type 90 90mm Rocket 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
UG-R LR #88 (Type 130 Rockets)	0min	8x Type 130 130mm Rocket 3x 720 liter Drop Tank



General Flags 
Computing Bombsight
Medium Runway
Medium Aircraft


----------



## Major Shaheb

Emmie said:


> Being capable of firing SD-10 and being fully equipped with SD-10 are two different things... What all I said was "F-7 PG is capable of firing SD-10 but it does not fire"... Now that means it is not equipped with SD-10.
> 
> F-7PG is configured with Grifo MG *(65 km search and 45 track)*... SD-10 has range more than 70 Kms... In order to utilize this missile effectively your radar's range got be at least 100 kms, this would enable you to get a lock at handsome range. Now considering the current range of radar in F-7 PG, pilot won't be able to utilize the maximum range of SD-10 but still Pilot can fire it within the limitations of radar... PAF is not considering this option because PAF will be replacing its F-7 fleet with JF-17...
> 
> 
> Excerpt from Jane's Air Launched Weapons 2003...



*Stop BULLSH!TTING*

J-7PG Fishbed

GENERAL DATA:
Length (m): 13.9 Climb Rate (m/sec): 150	
Wingspan (m): 7.2 Unloaded ATA: 4	
Weight (kg): 5275 Loaded ATA: 2	
Crew: 1 
SENSORS & EW:
Model	Max. Range	Abilities	Notes
FIAR Grifo-7	45	Air Intercept, Range Information, Bearing Information, IFF Information	Radar
SWCRIE KG-8602 RWR	50	Surface Search, Air Search, Bearing Information	Passive RWR/ESM/SIGINT
SWCRIE KG-8605 DECM	0	Surface Search, Air Search	Active jammer
MOUNTS & STORES/WEAPONS:

Mounts (Guns/Launchers/Ejectors/etc.)
Mount	ROF	Armor	Onboard Sensors	Capacity	Weapons (per mount)
Aircraft Decoy Launcher	1	None	None	10	5x Generic Flare (max. 5)
5x Generic Chaff (I/J/K Bands) (max. 5)
23mm NR-23 (PRC)	1	None	None	20	20x 23mm Burst (PRC) (max. 20)


Aircraft Stores
Store	Speed Release Envelope	Altitude Release Envelope
720 liter Drop Tank	No restrictions	No restrictions
PL-5B	0 - 2000 kts	10 - 15000 metres
PL-7	0 - 2000 kts	0 - 15000 metres
PL-9C Dikong	0 - 2000 kts	0 - 25000 metres
Type 130 130mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb	No restrictions	No restrictions
Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb	0 - 2000 kts	40 - 20000 metres
Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb	0 - 2000 kts	10 - 20000 metres
Type 57 57mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres
Type 90 90mm Rocket	0 - 660 kts	10 - 600 metres


Aircraft Loadouts
Loadout	Ready Time	Stores
ATA #27 (PL-7)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-7 
ATA #280 (PL-9)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-9C Dikong
ATA #43 (PL-5B)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-5B 
ATA LR #10 (PL-7)	0min	2x PL-7 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
ATA LR #117 (PL-9)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 4x PL-9C Dikong
ATA LR #13 (PL-5B)	0min	2x PL-5B 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
IB #52 (Type 500 500kg Bomb)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 4x Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb
IB #79 (Type 250 250kg Bomb)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 4x Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb
IB LR #32 (Type 500 Bombs)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x Type 500-1/2 500kg GP Bomb
IB LR #52 (Type 250 250kg Bomb)	0min	2x Type 250-1/2 250kg GP Bomb 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
UG-C #111 (Type 250-3 CBU)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 4x Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb
UG-C LR #77 (Type 250-3 CBU)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x Type 250-3 Cluster Bomb
UG-R #135 (Type 130 Rockets)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 16x Type 130 130mm Rocket
UG-R #42 (Type 90 Rockets)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 28x Type 90 90mm Rocket
UG-R #44 (Type 57 Rockets)	0min	1x 720 liter Drop Tank 2x PL-7 66x Type 57 57mm Rocket
UG-R LR #17 (Type 57 Rockets)	0min	3x 720 liter Drop Tank 22x Type 57 57mm Rocket
UG-R LR #18 (Type 90 Rockets)	0min	14x Type 90 90mm Rocket 3x 720 liter Drop Tank
UG-R LR #88 (Type 130 Rockets)	0min	8x Type 130 130mm Rocket 3x 720 liter Drop Tank

General Flags 
Ballistic Bombsight
Medium Runway
Medium Aircraft

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Zabaniyah

^^^
Range for Grifo-7 is 55 km search, 38 km track

Grifo MG is 65 km search and 45 track

Technically, both the F-7PG and F-7BG can launch SD-10 but not very effectively. The small space for a bigger radar makes it somewhat limited. Why waste money on BVR missiles if the platform itself cannot utilize the missile's full potential? 

It'd be more cost effective for BAF to go for BVR missiles (R-27, RVVs) on its MiGs (which it already has ). 

Although, it's crucial that they'd be upgraded to SMT standards soon.


----------



## Emmie

@ Major...hahahahah.... Once a kid always a kid..


----------



## eastwatch

Somewhere I have read that China wanted to stop its F-7 series production once itc FC-1 trials go well. Now, China seems not to be overly optimistic about FC-1 production. At least, I have not heard any positive news from China regarding this. 

Now, Major Shaheb says that the rate of climb for FC-1 is only 31m/second. Whereas, the same is 150m/sec for F-7BG. What a big difference, although some posters claim that the T/W ratio is over 1.0. If so, then why it climbs only 31m in one second? It can be one reason that the Chinese do not consider FC-1 to be a promising venture. Could there be other reasons, too, that China has not shown interest to sell this plane to other countries, including Bangladesh.

We must understand that China could have said so many excuses for no more assembling of F-7 planes, and it could have insisted BAF to purchase its FC-1 planes. But, it did not do so. Instead, China has agreed to F-7(BGI) production. It may mean also that China has full confidence on this plane, and is not confident about FC-1.

A renewd production of its F-7(BGI) shows that China is not satisfied with FC-1 performance. Can some one highlite the matter, am I correct or not?

---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------




Emmie said:


> @ Major...hahahahah.... Once a kid always a kid..



Please elaborate and enlighten us why Major remains a kid, and you are not. Talk about technical matters and do not troll.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Zabaniyah

^^^F-7s are still in limited production for export orders. For PLAAF? 

---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------




eastwatch said:


> Please elaborate and enlighten us why Major remains a kid, and you are not. Talk about technical matters and do not troll.



Copy pasting and quoting from Wikipedia is something only trolls like Major do.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Emmie

eastwatch said:


> Please elaborate and enlighten us why Major remains a kid, and you are not. Talk about technical matters and do not troll.



I think I have explained why F-7 PG can't be fitted with SD-10.... But this guy instead of answering it technically is asking me "stop bullsh!shting"... Now tell me who's trolling? Also read this pseudo-intellectual's posts on this thread and have an idea what trolling is in actual.. BTW I hope you too are not trolling...


----------



## Zabaniyah

Irregardless, the JF-17's future development has potential:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/140801-jf-17-fighter-slated-block-2-upgrades-2012-a.html

Some of guys here really need to read up the JF-17 sub-forum from time to time. Plenty of info there.


----------



## TopCat

Zabaniya said:


> Irregardless, the JF-17's future development has potential:
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/140801-jf-17-fighter-slated-block-2-upgrades-2012-a.html
> 
> Some of guys here really need to read up the JF-17 sub-forum from time to time. Plenty of info there.


 
I always tried to tell you that *USE YOUR COMMON SENSE* .

One of my favorite teacher used to say "*COMMON SENSE IS THE MOST UNCOMMON THING*". Remember this quote.

Pakistan wanted a 4++ generation fighter within the budget range of 20 million dollar and that should again as good as F-16.

So there they goes, chinese put all their expertise and cheapy technic to came up with FC-1 to meet Pakistan's requirement. Yet China kept on working their next gen fighter like J-10, J-11, j-15, J-20 for their own requirement. They have not and will not induct FC-1 in their PLAF. 

Being a businessman for quite a long time, I know you got to pay what you asked for. You cant have all the goodies of a 4++ generation fighter for 1/4th the price. Its just common sense. Unless China would not had spent so many billions for their 4++ generation fighter and had abandoned J-10 program.

JF-17 is a over burdened aircraft and trying to achieve the capability beyond its capacity. You cant build a 20 strories building on a 4 storied foundation. Its as simple.


----------



## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> I always tried to tell you that *USE YOUR COMMON SENSE* .
> 
> One of my favorite teacher used to say "*COMMON SENSE IS THE MOST UNCOMMON THING*". Remember this quote.
> 
> Pakistan wanted a 4++ generation fighter within the budget range of 20 million dollar and that should again as good as F-16.
> 
> So there they goes, chinese put all their expertise and cheapy technic to came up with FC-1 to meet Pakistan's requirement. Yet China kept on working their next gen fighter like J-10, J-11, j-15, J-20 for their own requirement. They have not and will not induct FC-1 in their PLAF.
> 
> Being a businessman for quite a long time, I know you got to pay what you asked for. You cant have all the goodies of a 4++ generation fighter for 1/4th the price. Its just common sense. Unless China would not had spent so many billions for their 4++ generation fighter and had abandoned J-10 program.
> 
> JF-17 is a over burdened aircraft and trying to achieve the capability beyond its capacity. You cant build a 20 strories building on a 4 storied foundation. Its as simple.



Depends on the requirements.

The main reason why FC-1 isn't inducted into the PLAAF is due to range and payload. Of-course, China being a large country need more capable fighters like the J-10B and J-11B. 

China not inducting FC-1 does not necessarily have to strictly apply. They can go for them if requirements call for it. 

What I mean by potential is that it can suit export customer's requirements for a reasonably low-cost fighter, but at the same time not the most advanced plane in the world or something.

F-16 is not $20 million.


----------



## ziaulislam

FC1 will be inducted by chinese once they retire all of their f-7s
the reason why fc-1 is not inducted becuase pakistan has geography allows us to operate aircrafts with limtited range but chinese doesnt. 

its just like sweden developed gripen for its requirement but many countries didnt opt for it due to its range and paylaod instead went for f-16.
for us jf-17 has excellent qualities.
JF-17 carries a small price tag because of indigenous production and its borrowing of technologies from j-10.
even then its price tag isnt that low. even the LCA or gripen would have cost the same if the labour and R&D costs were lower in sweden

---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

fact is i dont understand why Bangladesh is going for new f-7s aircraft in 21 century..it should either go for gripen (35 million for gripen a/b/c) or jf-17 cheapest aircrafts to buy and operate yet very credible. the limited range for both also suit bangladesh. one or two squardorns can easily deter any viable threat they may face.
thailand did the same.

it has to be noted that with fly by wire systems both of these are much safer to operate than either mig29 or f-7


----------



## Zabaniyah

ziaulislam said:


> fact is i dont understand why Bangladesh is going for new f-7s aircraft in 21 century..it should either go for gripen (35 million for gripen a/b/c) or jf-17 cheapest aircrafts to buy and operate yet very credible. the limited range for both also suit bangladesh. one or two squardorns can easily deter any viable threat they may face.
> thailand did the same.
> 
> it has to be noted that with fly by wire systems both of these are much safer to operate than either mig29 or f-7



Gripen does not cost $35 million. It's much more than that. Sure, it'd make a awesome aircraft for BAF, but a bit heavy on the wallet. BAF generally operates on a tight budget. 

The air force just wanted a cheap replacement for the aging A-5s. The F-7BGI was the answer, and intended to be a 'stop gap' in the short term. The BGI having the capability to carry GPS guided bombs is pretty new to me as far as any F-7 variant goes. 

Personally, I think they should look into and consider the JF-17 rather than just throwing it in the bin. It doesn't hurt to gain knowledge. 

Me thinks Gripen is too expensive for Bangladesh.


----------



## eastwatch

ziaulislam said:


> FC1 will be inducted by chinese once they retire all of their f-7s
> the reason why fc-1 is not inducted becuase pakistan has geography allows us to operate aircrafts with limtited range but chinese doesnt.
> 
> its just like sweden developed gripen for its requirement but many countries didnt opt for it due to its range and paylaod instead went for f-16.
> for us jf-17 has excellent qualities.
> JF-17 carries a small price tag because of indigenous production and its borrowing of technologies from j-10.
> even then its price tag isnt that low. even the LCA or gripen would have cost the same if the labour and R&D costs were lower in sweden
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------
> 
> fact is i dont understand why Bangladesh is going for new f-7s aircraft in 21 century..it should either go for gripen (35 million for gripen a/b/c) or jf-17 cheapest aircrafts to buy and operate yet very credible. the limited range for both also suit bangladesh. one or two squardorns can easily deter any viable threat they may face.
> thailand did the same.
> 
> it has to be noted that with fly by wire systems both of these are much safer to operate than either mig29 or f-7



1) Pakistanis are good salesman. They are praising their JF-17 in unison. But, it remains a truth that no other country's airforce has shown yet interest to buy this plane which the Pakistanis call, 'A 4++ generation plane with a 3 generation price tag.' 

2) BAF is purchasing not a very usual F-7 that every one knows about. This F-7(BGI) will have a look different from other variants of F-7s. Its specifications will certainly be different, otherwise why it is not just a BG and why it is a BGI? It may look completely different from other variants of F-7. So, let us wait and see until we get the drawings.

3) BAF has already declared that it will buy another 2 sq. of 4.5++ generation planes sometime around 2020. So, it is unwise for BAF to purchase a $20million JF17 now when it can buy a F-7BGI @8million a piece that can function almost like a JF17. BAF targets a little higher grade planes than JF-17 in the future.


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## idune

No matter what China puts in the F7BG or BGI there is limitation on that aircraft design and capability. More importantly this is at the end of its evolution path. I have asked that question to this so called Bangladeshi major and he could not answer the question, so much for a BA major if he is that. 

On the other hand JF17 regardless of its current capabilities has an evolution path which is potent. 
There is no comparison between these two aircraft and what Bangladesh will buy in future has more political and strategic justification than technical one. So lets not argue on something that was initiated with political motivation.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

eastwatch said:


> 1) Pakistanis are good salesman. They are praising their JF-17 in unison.* But, it remains a truth that no other country's airforce has shown yet interest to buy this plane which the Pakistanis call, 'A 4++ generation plane with a 3 generation price tag.' *
> 2) BAF is purchasing not a very usual F-7 that every one knows about. This F-7(BGI) will have a look different from other variants of F-7s. Its specifications will certainly be different, otherwise why it is not just a BG and why it is a BGI? It may look completely different from other variants of F-7. So, let us wait and see until we get the drawings.
> 
> 3) BAF has already declared that it will buy another 2 sq. of 4.5++ generation planes sometime around 2020. So, it is unwise for BAF to purchase a $20million JF17 now when it can buy a* F-7BGI @8million a piece that can function almost like a JF17*. BAF targets a little higher grade planes than JF-17 in the future.



If you have any knowledge of military affairs i wish you read abt interest shown by azerbaijan,egypt,african nations etc..


As for F-7BG being similiar to JF-17 good luck... 

Welll what the heck lets see:

JF-17 Blk-I specs:
beefed up RD-93
KLJ-7
KG-3000 based on israeli jammer tech
MAR-1
PIRANHA
H-2,H-4
GBU
Anti rail busters
Hijara Anti tank cluster guided munition
Babur ALCM
SD-10A
Advanced EW suite like J-10
DSI
AWAC-DATALINK
HMS
C-803AK AND SERIES
MATURE COCKPIT TECH
FBW
HOTAS
DIGITAL COCKPIT
Shorter take off n landing
Smaller RCS

Etc etc etc


J-7BG will get shot from more than a hundred KM before can even be aware of a JF-17.... 

JF-17Blk II would be sinister...AESA,IFR,IRST,FLIR etc etc


----------



## Emmie

eastwatch said:


> 1) Pakistanis are good salesman. They are praising their JF-17 in unison. *But, it remains a truth that no other country's airforce has shown yet interest to buy this plane* which the Pakistanis call, 'A 4++ generation plane with a 3 generation price tag.'



This is what happens when you comment without any knowledge... Egypt is in negotiations with Pakistan to co produce JFT for EAF. Azerbaijan, Sudan, Qatar, Serbia etc are interested in JF-17.. Update yourself dear friend, do pay a visit to JF-17 subsection sometimes. And yeah, JFT with current capabilities is not a 4++ generation aircraft.. 




eastwatch said:


> 2) BAF is purchasing not a very usual F-7 that every one knows about. This F-7(BGI) will have a look different from other variants of F-7s. Its specifications will certainly be different, otherwise why it is not just a BG and why it is a BGI? It may look completely different from other variants of F-7. So, let us wait and see until we get the drawings.



Any idea which variant BAF would be importing? I believe its J-7G, with more advance avionics.. Don't expect any change in design.


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## Major Shaheb

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> If you have any knowledge of military affairs i wish you read abt interest shown by azerbaijan,egypt,african nations etc..
> 
> 
> As for F-7BG being similiar to JF-17 good luck...
> 
> Welll what the heck lets see:
> 
> JF-17 Blk-I specs:
> beefed up RD-93
> KLJ-7
> KG-3000 based on israeli jammer tech
> MAR-1
> PIRANHA
> H-2,H-4
> GBU
> Anti rail busters
> Hijara Anti tank cluster guided munition
> Babur ALCM
> SD-10A
> Advanced EW suite like J-10
> DSI
> AWAC-DATALINK
> HMS
> C-803AK AND SERIES
> MATURE COCKPIT TECH
> FBW
> HOTAS
> DIGITAL COCKPIT
> Shorter take off n landing
> Smaller RCS
> 
> Etc etc etc
> 
> 
> J-7BG will get shot from more than a hundred KM before can even be aware of a JF-17....
> 
> JF-17Blk II would be sinister...AESA,IFR,IRST,FLIR etc etc



JF-17Blk II !!!!! LOL. According to some of you, your JF-17 has not been yet completed and you are talking about Block II. Dream ON. 

By the way, Your current Block I cant fire any BVR missile. 

So, in an interception mission JF-17 will detect a F-7BG at a range of 75KM but as it has no BVR Missile capability, it can't engage. F-7BG shall detect ur JF-17 at a range of 65KM. BD don't have any confirmed BVR missile purchase order (Except for Mig-29's) for F-7BG (Although F-7BG fire control radar is BVR capable), so both F-7BG and JF-17 shall rely on PL-9C (Max Range 25KM). Its a 50:50 scenario to me. So, why should anyone buy JF-17 @ $20mln+ when they can get equally capable (Short-Mid range) F-7BG or equivalent or better @ only $7-10mln!!!! And this is why Even China is not interested in the JF-17 program.


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## Patriot

Bangladeshi guys no one is asking you to buy JF-17.You can keep your F7's and yes F7>>>>JF-17..happy now?The technical analysis of some posters here are hilarious.Nevertheless even the Indians are much more sensible then you guys.


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## Secur

Major Shaheb said:


> JF-17Blk II !!!!! LOL. According to some of you, your JF-17 has not been yet completed and you are talking about Block II. Dream ON.
> 
> *By the way, Your current Block I cant fire any BVR missile.
> *



In what sense , it isn't complete ?

and what makes you think so ?


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## Imran Khan

Patriot said:


> Bangladeshi guys no one is asking you to buy JF-17.You can keep your F7's and yes F7>>>>JF-17..happy now?The technical analysis of some posters here are hilarious.Nevertheless even the Indians are much more sensible then you guys.



they are trolling yaar try to understand . they buy f-7 in 2012 as fill gap its mean they can't afford even 15 or 20mn$ for pay . now these internet kids bashing with us for look better simply . leave them with f-7bg or tg .

---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 AM ----------




Secur said:


> In what sense , it isn't complete ?
> 
> and what makes you think so ?



i wonder on his every BS post still when i bash with him mods will wake up till that we have yo wait for 

TaimiKhan
ANTIBODY
T-Faz
Irfan Baloch
Adios Amigo
Elmo
Santro
Rafael
for kick this bastard

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Major Shaheb said:


> JF-17Blk II !!!!! LOL. According to some of you, your JF-17 has not been yet completed and you are talking about Block II. Dream ON.




Little knowledge can embarass you sometimes... 2 sqds of JF-17s blk-I are already in service... Black Spiders and Black Panthers... third is on its way... while BLK-II will join in 2012.

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...o-WHDg&usg=AFQjCNEb3Gzy-fMq8mcuQD8yh4KFUYBrlw

The programe is evolving!


> By the way, Your current Block I cant fire any BVR missile.
> So, in an interception mission JF-17 will detect a F-7BG at a range of 75KM but as it has no BVR Missile capability, it can't engage. F-7BG shall detect ur JF-17 at a range of 65KM. BD don't have any confirmed BVR missile purchase order (Except for Mig-29's) for F-7BG (Although F-7BG fire control radar is BVR capable), so both F-7BG and JF-17 shall rely on PL-9C (Max Range 25KM). Its a 50:50 scenario to me. So, why should anyone buy JF-17 @ $20mln+ when they can get equally capable (Short-Mid range) F-7BG or equivalent or better @ only $7-10mln!!!! And this is why Even China is not interested in the JF-17 program.



*The range of KLJ-7 is 150Km *plus we have AWACS....As for SD-10A:






Go take a break man!

























Picture frm UK airshow...


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## Major Shaheb

Emmie said:


> This is what happens when you comment without any knowledge... *Egypt is in negotiations with Pakistan to co produce JFT for EAF. Azerbaijan, Sudan, Qatar, Serbia etc are interested in JF-17*.. Update yourself dear friend, do pay a visit to JF-17 subsection sometimes. And yeah, JFT with current capabilities is not a 4++ generation aircraft..
> 
> Any idea which variant BAF would be importing? I believe its J-7G, with more advance avionics.. Don't expect any change in design.



Egypt had recently signed contract with Ukraine to upgrade all their Mig-21 and F-7 with better avionics and weapons systems to keep them in service till 2018. Egypt is also the 4th largest F-16 operator in the world with at the present 220 aircraft. They had also signed contract with USA in 2010 to deliver them with 20 F-16 Block 50/52. They also operate 20 Mirage 2000. And you want us to believe Egypt is negotiating to get JF-17!!!! Please, put some logic in it..

And yeah, almost all countries evaluated Mig-29 and F-16 but see how many of them operates these fighters.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Major Shaheb said:


> Egypt had recently signed contract with Ukraine to upgrade all their Mig-21 and F-7 with better avionics and weapons systems to keep them in service till 2018. Egypt is also the 4th largest F-16 operator in the world with at the present 220 aircraft. They had also signed contract with USA in 2010 to deliver them with 20 F-16 Block 50/52. They also operate 20 Mirage 2000. And you want us to believe Egypt is negotiating to get JF-17!!!! Please, put some logic in it..
> 
> And yeah, almost all countries evaluated Mig-29 and F-16 but see how many of them operates these fighters.



None of egyptian fighters are BVR capable... sitting ducks for israelis... 

News:


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## Emmie

Major Shaheb said:


> JF-17Blk II !!!!! LOL. According to some of you, your JF-17 has not been yet completed and you are talking about Block II. Dream ON.
> 
> By the way, Your current Block I cant fire any BVR missile.
> 
> So, in an interception mission JF-17 will detect a F-7BG at a range of 75KM but as it has no BVR Missile capability, it can't engage. F-7BG shall detect ur JF-17 at a range of 65KM. BD don't have any confirmed BVR missile purchase order (Except for Mig-29's) for F-7BG (Although F-7BG fire control radar is BVR capable), so both F-7BG and JF-17 shall rely on PL-9C (Max Range 25KM). Its a 50:50 scenario to me. So, why should anyone buy JF-17 @ $20mln+ when they can get equally capable (Short-Mid range) F-7BG or equivalent or better @ only $7-10mln!!!! And this is why Even China is not interested in the JF-17 program.



Typical brain farting!! I thought there was a limit of ignorance, I was wrong.. F-7 PG has a search range of 65 kms and track range of 45 kms and that is for a 3 or 5 m2 RCS and guess what JFT's RCS is 1m2.... Hahahahah... Great going major...


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## Emmie

Major Shaheb said:


> Egypt had recently signed contract with Ukraine to upgrade all their Mig-21 and F-7 with better avionics and weapons systems to keep them in service till 2018. Egypt is also the 4th largest F-16 operator in the world with at the present 220 aircraft. They had also signed contract with USA in 2010 to deliver them with 20 F-16 Block 50/52. They also operate 20 Mirage 2000. And you want us to believe Egypt is negotiating to get JF-17!!!! Please, put some logic in it..
> 
> And yeah, almost all countries evaluated Mig-29 and F-16 but see how many of them operates these fighters.



Yeah yeah, how many countries have evaluated Rafale and how many of them have inducted it so far? Apply some logic Major..

Do a good research before posting kiddo... Egypt signed contract with Ukraine in 2008 and not recently.. What amazes me is your ignorance, It was Jane defence weekly which disclosed EAF's contract with USA for block-52 along with negotiations with Pakistan for JF-17 in the same news/article. You are deliberately quoting only block-52 part.. Trolling further gets worsen when you ask "How can I render others to believe that Egypt is in negotiations with Pakistan for JF-17" 

Heights of ignorance and trolling...

Thank God Majors like you are not serving PA...


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## rohailmalhi

Apocalypse said:


> Wow, amazing English. Even your signature is EPIC. And while the mods are on it, they should take care of you too for your racist remarks in the previous pages.



First u provoke other person with all ur(not pointing towards u but some people ) BS and ignorance .

Eve though a thing is proved to them they keep saying it again and again , like they dont want to listen or learn .

So i think its Ok to kick there ***** .

---------- Post added at 09:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------




Imran Khan said:


> so now bangalis will teach us ? go first clean the streets in GULF before teach me ENGLISH . I AM PAKISTANI AND MY LANGUAGE IS URDU .


Imran bahi haath ho la rakhien zara.........hahaha

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## Major Shaheb

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> Little knowledge can embarass you sometimes... 2 sqds of JF-17s blk-I are already in service... Black Spiders and Black Panthers... third is on its way... while BLK-II will join in 2012.
> 
> http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...o-WHDg&usg=AFQjCNEb3Gzy-fMq8mcuQD8yh4KFUYBrlw
> 
> The programe is evolving!
> 
> 
> *The range of KLJ-7 is 150Km *plus we have AWACS....As for SD-10A:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go take a break man!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Picture frm UK airshow...



JF-17 has an ongoing test and retest with SD-10 missile for about 2-3 years now. They have been trying to solve some problem with the radar of the aircraft for quite a long time which has been making it difficult for JF-17 firing SD-10. They have not been able to fix the problem yet. About the pic, please go back to some page where I have shared some pic of JF-17 carrying SD-10. 

Im not saying JF-17 is not in service but all Im saying is it is not yet fully mission capable.

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Major Shaheb said:


> *JF-17 has an ongoing test and retest with SD-10 missile for about 2-3 years now. They have been trying to solve some problem with the radar of the aircraft for quite a long time which has been making it difficult for JF-17 firing SD-10.* They have not been able to fix the problem yet. About the pic, please go back to some page where I have shared some pic of JF-17 carrying SD-10.
> 
> Im not saying JF-17 is not in service but all Im saying is it is not yet fully mission capable.



Lol.. do you work for PAC or CATIC?


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## Stealth_fighter

Calm down guys.. Lets wait and c what happens next. F-7 in not the end of the world..and for few mad people we should boot attack each other crazily.now a days we see many insane pplz in PDF .


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## Stealth_fighter

Zabaniya said:


> ^^^?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Copy pasting and quoting from Wikipedia is something only trolls like Major do.


. 

Lol.. This is the quote of the day bro


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## Zabaniyah

Guys, guys...

Calm down.... 

The key question being raised here by some Pakistanis here is why didn't the BAF induct JF-17 by paying a bit more than buying F-7s? 

The F-7BGI is intended to replace the aging and increasingly dangerous to fly A-5s. As the article posted by the OP states, this would have the ability to carry and drop GPS guided bombs. This is something that neither the F-7MG or F-7BG had. It is for a very specific role. And they needed them fast and cheap. I am sure they got very favorable terms from the Chinese in that deal. 

Is the F-7BG BVR capable? Technically yes. The Grifo MG radar fitted on the F-7BGs has 65 km search and 45 track capabilities.
Chinese Military Aviation | China Air Force

For anything to be considered BVR capable, it must exceed a range of 37km as a general rule of thumb. 

But we have to note that the SD-10 has a range of 70+ km. The missile's performance is comparable the USAF&#8217;s AIM-120A AMRAAM and Russian R-77 (which the BAF already implements in its arsenal along with R-27s on the MiG-29s). 

Given that the missile's range exceeds that of the radar, it'd be rather inefficient and not cost-effective to implement them on F-7s given that the radar on the nose is too small to house a radar capable of implementing the SD-10. It'd be sheer overkill. 

It'd be better for the BAF to procure R-27s and RVVs for the MiGs instead of SD-10s (each cost ~$90,000).

It has been stated here before that the F-7BGs are BVR 'capable', which is technically true, but at the same time misleading if we take into account the key BVR missile available from China.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...ladesh-air-forces-f-7bg-poor-mans-f-16-a.html

Why didn't the BAF go for JF-17s? Well, the F-7BGIs were ordered for a very specific role and urgently needed to be done so quickly and cheaply. 

The JF-17's systems integration isn't 100% complete yet. It's still a very new design, and it'll take time to fully mature. Not even the F-22 Raptor is fully matured, which is having some cumbersome problems. Yes, even the king of the skies has problems 

Buying the F-7s would add more value into the BAF's current operational requirements compared to ordering JF-17s now. It'd potentially add more unnecessary complexities in case JF-17s were brought. 

BAF operates on a relatively tight budget. It is planning to procure more modern planes in the future, and this is needed to be done so carefully since it has long term implications for the nation. 

So, did the BAF make the right decision to add the 'stop gap' with F-7BGIs? The answer is yes. 

No reason to rush 

P.S: Some of you guys really need to grow up.

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## eastwatch

WE have to understand things about F-7BGI. This group of 16 planes will be order-made. BAF wants to use these BGI-grade planes alongwith 4.5++ planes it will buy in 2020. Normally, F-7s are fitted with WP-13 turbojet engines. It is possible that BAF will require these to be fitted with more powerful WP-14 engines. Of all the planes of this group, only F-7G is fitted with this strong engine. 

This engine has a maximum afterburning thrust of 75kN, whereas the former engine has about 65kN. This engine will be strong enough to carry extra loads due to BVR, additional missiles and other necessary equipments. A normal engine J-7's climb rate is 155m/second (same as JF-17). A stronger engine will make the plane able to be fitted with two more hard points at the far tips of the plane's wings. But, it will not compromise the climbing rate if the plane is fitted with WP-14 turbojet engine.


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## ziaulislam

Zabaniya said:


> Gripen does not cost $35 million. It's much more than that. Sure, it'd make a awesome aircraft for BAF, but a bit heavy on the wallet. BAF generally operates on a tight budget.
> 
> The air force just wanted a cheap replacement for the aging A-5s. The F-7BGI was the answer, and intended to be a 'stop gap' in the short term. The BGI having the capability to carry GPS guided bombs is pretty new to me as far as any F-7 variant goes.
> 
> Personally, I think they should look into and consider the JF-17 rather than just throwing it in the bin. It doesn't hurt to gain knowledge.
> 
> Me thinks Gripen is too expensive for Bangladesh.



yes true in end the deal will go up to be approx 50-60 with other costs but still its the cheapest aircarft available other than jf-17.

lastly its highly unlikely for brand new aircraft to be inducted very soon. same goes for jf-17. Countries mere negotiating or showing interest testifies success of jf-17. a deal to be broken takes years atleast 4-5 years jf-17 hasnt even completed its 3rd yr of operation yet.

secondly many experts of avaiation industry have accepted the capabilities of jf-17 so there should be any doubt there. 
lastly it doesnt come at a price of third gen aircraft.it will atleast three times expensive than the f-7 bangaldesh is buying.


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## ziaulislam

most of us are thinking that bangladesh should have gone for lower quantity and better quality.
f-7 has serious draw backs to be operated in this century. lack of fly by wire, no bvr capablites is not a good thing in this century. it also lack a true multirole capability.

lastly i dont agree that f-7 are true BVR capable thats because the limitation of the Grifo radar used on them which has less detection range and search capability as well as azimuth capability of 30 degrees results in their inability to fully utilize a decent bvr missile.


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## eastwatch

As I have said in my earlier post, BGI will be order made. BAF knows very well that it has to wait another 9 years to get two sqs. of 4.5++ planes. So, it must have already talked with the Chinese to improve the functions of BGIs. At present, all variants of F-7 have 5 hard points. But, BGI's two wing ends can be fitted with two more hardpoints, so that it can carry also SD-10 BVR missiles.

If this increases the total imposed loads of the plane, then it can be fitted with a much stronger WP-14 turbojet or some other engine instead of the present WP-13. In this way, the climbing rate, that stands at 150m/sec, will not be compromised.

I have read materials that say unlike other F-7 variants BGI will be BVR capable. There will be many other additional amenities in this plane. So, I presume that BGI nose will be modified to fit in the BVR. There will certainly be other modifications as per requirements of BAF. We all will know the changes and modifications when the planes arrive in BD one by one next year.

JF-17 seems to be a better plane, but BAF will spend the same money to buy three BGIs instead of only one JFT. BAF inventory does not have good number of planes. It needs a good number to keep its pilots busy with flying training. Moreover, it seems much of the functions that can be carried by JFTs can also be carried by BGIs. Do not get swayed by the name F-7, because BGI will be different, by look and also in functionality.

For another matter, instead of inducting FC-1 planes, China is opting for F-7 variants that will work side by side with its J-10 and J-20 planes. China will not dispose off its F-7s in order to induct FC-1. Rather, China has already decided to operate F-7 alongside other 4.5++ planes. So, how can anyone just dismiss the F-7BGIs as very inferior planes?

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## Zabaniyah

ziaulislam said:


> most of us are thinking that bangladesh should have gone for lower quantity and better quality.
> f-7 has serious draw backs to be operated in this century. lack of fly by wire, no bvr capablites is not a good thing in this century. it also lack a true multirole capability.
> 
> lastly i dont agree that f-7 are true BVR capable thats because the limitation of the Grifo radar used on them which has less detection range and search capability as well as azimuth capability of 30 degrees results in their inability to fully utilize a decent bvr missile.



The F-7BGI are there for the short run. Of-course in the long-run, it'll go for more advanced aircraft throughout the decade and after. 

The two primary candidates are the MiG-29SMT and the F-16 (block unknown). Two others like the Gripen and SU-30 may join the tender. 

It's funny that the Americans are now offering us the F-16 

It's prudent that Bangladesh upgrade its current fleet of MiG-29SEs to SMT standards.


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## Lighting_Fighter

Zabaniya said:


> The F-7BGI are there for the short run. Of-course in the long-run, it'll go for more advanced aircraft throughout the decade and after.
> 
> The two primary candidates are the MiG-29SMT and the F-16 (block unknown). Two others like the Gripen and SU-30 may join the tender.
> 
> It's funny that the Americans are now offering us the F-16
> 
> It's prudent that Bangladesh upgrade its current fleet of MiG-29SEs to SMT standards.



Why US offering its F-16? I bet they are used up. Ok if US offering F-16 why not get new ones from Turkey if not US ones are used?


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## Lighting_Fighter

ziaulislam said:


> most of us are thinking that bangladesh should have gone for lower quantity and better quality.
> f-7 has serious draw backs to be operated in this century. lack of fly by wire, no bvr capablites is not a good thing in this century. it also lack a true multirole capability.
> 
> lastly i dont agree that f-7 are true BVR capable thats because the limitation of the Grifo radar used on them which has less detection range and search capability as well as azimuth capability of 30 degrees results in their inability to fully utilize a decent bvr missile.



I have a question F-7BG, are they BVR capable? I heard they are. If F-7BG can be BVR capable then I am sure F-7BGI will be too, right guys?


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## Zabaniyah

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Why US offering its F-16? I bet they are used up. Ok if US offering F-16 why not get new ones from Turkey if not US ones are used?



The ones manufactured in Turkey are not for export, the Americans don't allow that. And only for use by TuAF. But, they can perform MLU.

If the Americans are offering used F-16s, refurbishing them would cost ~$50 million for export orders. 

Yeah, the Americans did refuse to offer F-16s back in the 80s and 90s after repeated requests. But now, it's different. 



Lighting_Fighter said:


> I have a question F-7BG, are they BVR capable? I heard they are. If F-7BG can be BVR capable then I am sure F-7BGI will be too, right guys?



Read post# 370.


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## ziaulislam

thats a interesting question. why to waste money now. they should think of inducting used f-16s, gripen or mig 29 now.
even if its in lesser number, as there is no potent threat to Bangladesh in future near or distant.

bangladesh doesnt has a good experience with mig29 due to cost of operation, it even offered its migs for sale in 2002.
so better go for gripen, as f-16 used ones will have little life left upon them. and new ones are too expensive.
recently thailand went for 1.2 billion deal of 12 gripen and 2 saab 340 AWACS.
i think this package itself is sufficient for all needs of bangladesh this along with its migs and current f-7.
i think bangladesh should think on lines of Thailand though they have more security issues.

that is if they are not interested in the thunder.

Zabaniya, F-7s are not fully BVR capable due to limited azimuth of only +/-30 degree. search and track are not the only thing to consider in BVR cpablities.

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## Luftwaffe

Lets not fight why BAF did not go for JF-17, BAF must have their own long term modernization plan. 

The question Are F-16s a good choice in 2020+ beyond, will US offer AESA, will US offer AMRAAM (unlikely due to indian pressure), Gripen is not cheap and stands equally in cost to the F-16 block 52 though gripen NG could be on offer but with strings attached US Engine+us missiles. Remember According to Swedish DOD they will regularly visit to keep check on gripens in Thailand you may read it online from reliable websites. 

Can BAF spend this much on 16 F-16s
- 16 New F-16 Block 50/52s &#8211; $1.38B or more
- Weapons for the New F-16s &#8211; $?
- F-16 Mid-Life Update Modification Kits &#8211; around $500M for 16 F-16s (MLU block 32 to block 50 F-16s in US Storage)
- F-16 Block 30/32 Engine Modifications &#8211; around $120-$130M
- All Setup, all necessary equipment, training etc - $?
- Total cost = more then $2B as much as $2.3B?

Thailand Purchased 12 Gripens + 2 Saab AEW&C the total cost of procurement is around $2B-$2.2B 

Suppose...JF-17 Blk II and 1 Y-8 AEW&C at say $24M (Block II AESA against non AESA Gripen) X 16 + 1 Y-8 AEW&C = appx $385M Add a $115M total complete package-setup-associated costs = $500M for satisfaction make it $550M 

Which one do you think is feasible cost effective solution, you decide, but in the end it is BAF to decide not forums so I would ask members to zip up mouths against each other.


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## Emmie

eastwatch said:


> As I have said in my earlier post, BGI will be order made. BAF knows very well that it has to wait another 9 years to get two sqs. of 4.5++ planes. So, it must have already talked with the Chinese to improve the functions of BGIs. At present, all variants of F-7 have 5 hard points. But, BGI's two wing ends can be fitted with two more hardpoints, so that it can carry also SD-10 BVR missiles.
> 
> If this increases the total imposed loads of the plane, then it can be fitted with a much stronger WP-14 turbojet or some other engine instead of the present WP-13. In this way, the climbing rate, that stands at 150m/sec, will not be compromised.
> 
> I have read materials that say unlike other F-7 variants BGI will be BVR capable. There will be many other additional amenities in this plane. So, I presume that BGI nose will be modified to fit in the BVR. There will certainly be other modifications as per requirements of BAF. We all will know the changes and modifications when the planes arrive in BD one by one next year.




Well, if that is the case then you must order the variant which got cancelled back in 2000/2002, J-7MF/J-7FS. J-7FS was a technology demonstrator, it tested a chin inlet arrangement. It had a highly modified nose to accommodate a more powerful radar, used a powerful engine, equiped with advance avionics and modern armament control system. As the aircraft was designed to test the concept of long term fighter, a new project for the aircraft "J-7MF" with more alters in design came into existence. No prototype of J-7 MF ever built because Chinese terminated this project in favour of JF-17. For J-7MF you'll have to wait for at least half a decade becuase it takes years to make a new aircraft fully operational. J-7MF perfectly meets the demands you refered to in above quoted part.

Current struture of the nose cannot be modified to a great deal becuase of the presence of inlet, you can't constrict the inlet. For a radar fully capable for BVR engagement you need to have large space in nose, current space in nose does not allow a radar like KLJ-7. Unless you set apart nose from inlet you simply cannot configure a powerful radar.




eastwatch said:


> JF-17 seems to be a better plane, but BAF will spend the same money to buy three BGIs instead of only one JFT. BAF inventory does not have good number of planes. It needs a good number to keep its pilots busy with flying training. Moreover, it seems much of the functions that can be carried by JFTs can also be carried by BGIs. Do not get swayed by the name F-7, because BGI will be different, by look and also in functionality.
> 
> For another matter, instead of inducting FC-1 planes, China is opting for F-7 variants that will work side by side with its J-10 and J-20 planes. China will not dispose off its F-7s in order to induct FC-1. Rather, China has already decided to operate F-7 alongside other 4.5++ planes. So, how can anyone just dismiss the F-7BGIs as very inferior planes?




I am afraid you are mistaken here, a third generation aircraft cannot stand next to a fourth or fifth generation aircraft especially in an AF like PLAAF. There's no comparison between a third generation aircraft and a fourth or fifth generation aircraft. PLAAF has officially withdrawn its J-7s from first line service. They stopped the production for PLAAF back in 2008, now gradually replacing older birds with J10 mainly. They have so many options available to them in the form of J10/J10B, J11/J11A/J11B, FC-1 etc etc..

The most advanced variant of J-7 which PLAAF operates is J-7G/G2, probabaly configured with KLJ-6F, it would not range more than 70~75 kms. No point for PLAAF to equip its J-7s with BVR missile (SD-10).

P.S: I am not underrating F7s, I know them, they have been serving PAF for decades now. My point rather is "one must not vindicate its J-7 or something by lowballing JFT or something". BAF opted J-7 for its own reasons, now that doesnt mean JFT is an amateurish aircraft..

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## Zabaniyah

Bottom line: BAF lacks BVR and net-centric warfare capabilities. 

Initially, some FC-1s along with an AWACS package would be a good start for defensive purposes. Military of Bangladesh is largely defensive. 

And maybe, FC-20s for later (when up for offer). 

I know F-16 and Gripen are good, but they are very expensive. Also, we do not know if the Americans would be willing to provide us with the AMRAAM missile, the key BVR missile used by both the Gripen and the F-16. The Meteor may cost even more. Very expensive compared to Russian and Chinese ones.

I am saying this even though I personally prefer Western equipment. We just have to accept the reality. 

I am not sure if additional MiG-29s and SU-30s would be in the best interests of the BAF. Especially since it runs on a very tight budget. 



ziaulislam said:


> even if its in lesser number, as there is no potent threat to Bangladesh in future near or distant.



There is Myanmar, but nothing too much to be paranoid about.



ziaulislam said:


> bangladesh doesnt has a good experience with mig29 due to cost of operation, it even offered its migs for sale in 2002.



MiG-29 cost ~$5,500/hr to operate. Varies from end-user to end-user. 

The MiG-29's engines were problematic. Another limitation is the late delivery of supplies from the Russians. 

You see, the key mistake the BAF did was that they brought cheap parts from Central Asian and East European countries. Without the use of original parts, this caused damage, and partly resulted in costly overhauls. 



ziaulislam said:


> so better go for gripen, as f-16 used ones will have little life left upon them. and new ones are too expensive.
> recently thailand went for 1.2 billion deal of 12 gripen and 2 saab 340 AWACS.
> i think this package itself is sufficient for all needs of bangladesh this along with its migs and current f-7.
> i think bangladesh should think on lines of Thailand though they have more security issues.



Having lived in Thailand for 12 years, I can say Thailand is a lot richer and more advanced than Bangladesh. 

Bangladesh's problem is lack of will and commitment from the top levels in pretty much anything government related. And this has been going on for almost two decades. 

It'd take a while for Bangladesh's political climate to improve. And since that applies, the future plans of the BAF may change at anytime. 

Just because the article in the thread says that F-16, MiG-29, SU-30, Gripen must be the future, does not necessarily have to be true. 

Frankly, I find the list contradictory toward the stated requirements of the BAF. I mean, they place cost as a major criteria, and at the same time, they consider the SU-30?


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## Ammyy

Luftwaffe said:


> Lets not fight why BAF did not go for JF-17, BAF must have their own long term modernization plan.
> 
> The question Are F-16s a good choice in 2020+ beyond, will US offer AESA, will US offer AMRAAM (unlikely due to indian pressure), Gripen is not cheap and stands equally in cost to the F-16 block 52 though gripen NG could be on offer but with strings attached US Engine+us missiles. Remember According to Swedish DOD they will regularly visit to keep check on gripens in Thailand you may read it online from reliable websites.
> 
> Can BAF spend this much on 16 F-16s
> - 16 New F-16 Block 50/52s &#8211; $1.38B or more
> - Weapons for the New F-16s &#8211; $?
> - F-16 Mid-Life Update Modification Kits &#8211; around $500M for 16 F-16s (MLU block 32 to block 50 F-16s in US Storage)
> - F-16 Block 30/32 Engine Modifications &#8211; around $120-$130M
> - All Setup, all necessary equipment, training etc - $?
> - Total cost = more then $2B as much as $2.3B?
> 
> Thailand Purchased 12 Gripens + 2 Saab AEW&C the total cost of procurement is around $2B-$2.2B
> 
> Suppose...JF-17 Blk II and 1 Y-8 AEW&C at say $24M (Block II AESA against non AESA Gripen) X 16 + 1 Y-8 AEW&C = appx $385M Add a $115M total complete package-setup-associated costs = $500M for satisfaction make it $550M
> 
> Which one do you think is feasible cost effective solution, you decide, but in the end it is BAF to decide not forums so I would ask members to zip up mouths against each other.



Please tell me one think how can you compare Gripen with JF17 (upgraded version is in development) ????


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## Emmie

DRDO said:


> Please tell me one think how can you compare Gripen with JF17 (upgraded version is in development) ????



He's comparing with respect to the cost of two jets... Read the post with proper context... Don't just jump with enthusiasm.


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## Ammyy

Emmie said:


> He's comparing with respect to the cost of two jets... Read the post with proper context... Don't just jump with enthusiasm.


 
If cost is every thing capabilities are not important then why not go for more J7 ??


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## Zabaniyah

DRDO said:


> If cost is every thing capabilities are not important then why not go for more J7 ??



Do you have to absolutely troll every thread that mentions the JF-17? 

We already discussed the limitations of the F-7 throughout the past 26 pages!


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## Emmie

Luftwaffe said:


> Suppose...JF-17 Blk II and 1 Y-8 AEW&C at say $24M (Block II AESA against non AESA Gripen) X 16 + 1 Y-8 AEW&C = appx $385M Add a $115M total complete package-setup-associated costs = $500M for satisfaction make it $550M
> 
> Which one do you think is feasible cost effective solution, you decide, but in the end it is BAF to decide not forums so I would ask members to zip up mouths against each other.



No dear.... JFT block II would cost US $ 20-25 Ml, with AESA it would cost US $ 30 Ml... With weapons, maintenance and other services single unit would cost US$ 30+ Ml (without AESA) and US$ 35+ (with AESA)... I may be wrong altho...


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## Zabaniyah

Emmie said:


> No dear.... JFT block II would cost US $ 20-25 Ml, with AESA it would cost US $ 30 Ml... With weapons, maintenance and other services single unit would cost US$ 30+ Ml (without AESA) and US$ 35+ (with AESA)... I may be wrong altho...



To be frank, that is an accurate price prediction. I doubt if it'd cost only $15 million for exports.


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## Emmie

DRDO said:


> If cost is every thing capabilities are not important then why not go for more J7 ??



Yeah this is what he's pointing out, the cost factor for BAF considering others options mentioned in OP's post.. If cost if everything then BAF must not consider F16, Gripen, Mif-29 etc etc and focus on F7s only, as per your faulty logic...

BTW people have discussed these all on previous pages, spend some time reading posts there..


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## Emmie

Zabaniya said:


> To be frank, that is an accurate price prediction. I doubt if it'd cost only $15 million for exports.



Can't say about my predication, but yeah, aircraft augments its price when it is to be exported... It goes with weapons and other services.


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## Zabaniyah



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## Luftwaffe

DRDO said:


> Please tell me one think how can you compare Gripen with JF17 (upgraded version is in development) ????



Good question how can indians compare lca with operational F-16, operational JF-17, operational Gripen. 

PS. I did not compare Aircraft, I compared Price where JF-17 Wins. 

JF-17 Block II would be no different from Block I except for , Air Refuelling Probe, IRST, AESA (hint AESA being tested on J-10B already the variant for JF/FC-1 would be similar & miniature would be configured for JF/FC-1 for more information contact nabil_05)


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## Luftwaffe

Emmie said:


> No dear.... JFT block II would cost US $ 20-25 Ml, with AESA it would cost US $ 30 Ml... With weapons, maintenance and other services single unit would cost US$ 30+ Ml (without AESA) and US$ 35+ (with AESA)... I may be wrong altho...



Like I explained $500-$600M is extremely competitive price for the package it would offer that includes AESA, IRST, air refuelling probe ofcourse BVR missiles SD-10/A etc.


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## rohailmalhi

So till now have we succeeded in pacifying Bangladeshi Keyboard warriors to buy JF17 BlkI or BlkII. 

ps : we know what is the potential of JF17 and what we are going to achieve from it.


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## Luftwaffe

The purpose is information, BAF has its hands full and modernization in Gear, Let them decide I have explained in Post #380 both Gripen-F-16s with a complete package a squadron or Fleet of 16 would cost between $2.1-$2.4B where as JF/FC-1 would cost between $450-500M which faces competition from Mig 29.

If BAF is willing to pay this price then it is a good news for BAF and BAF enthusiasts without forgetting these Airframes are Expensive & subjected to strictest visit from US in case of F-16s and Gripen in case of Sweden.


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## ziaulislam

most of our members are confusing flyaway cost with export costs.
cost for jf-17 block first was approx 18 million but for PAF excluding R&D. western analyst add R&D to their flyaway cost too. Export price will mostly include VAT and other taxes rising the prices by atleast 15%.

an exported block 1 will thus cost nearly 23-25 million dollars while block2 near to 30-35 million.
but again at same time gripen(C not NG) nearly cost 50-55M and f-16 85-90 million.
rafale and eurotyphoon pass the 100 million mark

su 30 price is highly varaible due to variable equipments but it would be near 50 million.
j-10/fc-20 would cost approx 40-50 million.

mig 29 has most versatile price i have seen deals from 20 million to 50 million.

lastly prices go up by 5-7% every year


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## Major Shaheb

Anyone! Who can share any update on the F-7BGI procurement program? Still dont know the shape of the aircraft. A friend told me it might look like BG. But, the avionics shall be different. It might receive a much upgraded radar that also has a terrain following mode. Can anyone confirm that!!

---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------

Can anyone share any information about the two helicopters that RAB will get?


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## Major Shaheb

Also, if anyone can confirm the new Euro-copter to be procured for BD army? Some Indian sources suggest it might be Fennec. But, it differs a lot with the army requirements. So, im not sure...


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## Zabaniyah

Likely to be EC-175:






It was confirmed that BA is buying a few Eurocopters along with the MBT-2000 order.

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## kobiraaz

^ handsome one!


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## kobiraaz

> Can anyone share any information about the two helicopters that RAB will get?



Bell-407..............


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## Zabaniyah

Bells are solid choppers. Glad to see RAB is getting its hands on goodies. 

Bell-407:





Sooo...the Americans are supplying them eh?


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## Avisheik

Zabaniya said:


> Likely to be EC-175:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was confirmed that BA is *buying a few Eurocopters* along with the MBT-2000 order.



How many exactly?? Its quite new, so i guess it must be a bit costly


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## Avisheik

Major Shaheb said:


> Anyone! Who can share any update on the F-7BGI procurement program? Still dont know the shape of the aircraft. A friend told me it might look like BG. But, the avionics shall be different. It might receive a much upgraded radar that also has a terrain following mode. Can anyone confirm that!!
> 
> ---------- Post added at 07:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 PM ----------
> 
> Can anyone share any information about the two helicopters that RAB will get?



Well the shape should be the same, not sure about the terrain mode though


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## Major Shaheb

Does anyone know! what happened to the procurement of 2x F-22B for the Navy.


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## Major Shaheb

Can anyone has any idea about a rumor: Bangladesh is going to develop its own C-802A missile with the help of China. is it true? Please quote if you have any solid reference.


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> Likely to be EC-175:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was confirmed that BA is buying a few Eurocopters along with the MBT-2000 order.



I dont think so. Although the helicopter meets army requirements but its going to be too expensive. I do not know the price but I guess it will not be anything less that $15mln. It can even be much more than that.


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## eastwatch

Major Shaheb said:


> Anyone! Who can share any update on the F-7BGI procurement program? Still dont know the shape of the aircraft. A friend told me it might look like BG. But, the avionics shall be different. It might receive a much upgraded radar that also has a terrain following mode. Can anyone confirm that!!




Some other defence forums are saying that not only the BGI will be BVR capable, its structure and look will also be quite different from other F-7 variants. In their opinion, the F-7 naming itself is wrong. It should have been given a different name. So, let us wait and see the new planes that will start arriving this year.


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## chisty_chowdhury

eastwatch said:


> Some other defence forums are saying that not only the BGI will be BVR capable, its structure and look will also be quite different from other F-7 variants. In their opinion, the F-7 naming itself is wrong. It should have been given a different name. So, let us wait and see the new planes that will start arriving this year.



You already know that the cone shaped nose is reaming the same. 
And for the naming-I think you are also getting the heat like others


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## Avisheik

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/128966-navy-inching-closer-local-c-702-missile-production.html

PS its C 802, bd 4 ever made a typo



Major Shaheb said:


> Can anyone has any idea about a rumor: Bangladesh is going to develop its own C-802A missile with the help of China. is it true? Please quote if you have any solid reference.


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## chisty_chowdhury

Zabaniya said:


> Likely to be EC-175:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was confirmed that BA is buying a few Eurocopters along with the MBT-2000 order.



Couple of days ago I saw a helo flying in the sky which was a bit different than the other helos that fly over here. Generally Bell 206, Bell 212 and Mi-X fly over our sky. Among them Bell has stands. What I saw that day, a helicopter with no stand but three wheel and a distinct structure that I have shown below----






It was far above me but I saw the distinct part. So was it that EC175, I am not 100% sure but I saw something different than the usual.

---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------




Avisheik said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/128966-navy-inching-closer-local-c-702-missile-production.html
> 
> PS its C 802, bd 4 ever made a typo



Years back I read a tender to construct the workshop of C-802 in our local newspapers.

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## Zabaniyah

^Hence my speculation stands correct 

Yes, the EC-175 is a pretty chopper.

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## TopCat

In the other thread we saw BD is negotiating $850 million from Russia. But, what could be those hardwares? SUB or SAM?


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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> In the other thread we saw BD is negotiating $850 million from Russia. But, what could be those hardwares? SUB or SAM?



No specifics.



> Bangladesh indicated its growing intimacy with Russia through the award last month of well-drilling contracts without going through a tender process and without a production sharing clause. Dhaka also hopes soon to obtain suppliers' credit worth US$850 million to procure Russian-made military equipment.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/152104-gazprom-deal-may-oil-dhaka-arms-purchase.html


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## Avisheik

iajdani said:


> In the other thread we saw BD is negotiating $850 million from Russia. But, what could be those hardwares? SUB or SAM?



Most probably SAM, Bangladesh navy has been already gotten lots of goodies.

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## eastwatch

Our BAF Chief has declared that BAF will purchase 4+ and 4.5 generations mainstay planes sometime around 2010. BAF was not supposed to buy any new planes immediately after the F-7BGI inductions. However, when the Chief said those things no credit was available. 

So, if now, a $850m Russian credit is available, then BAF can also choose to buy at least one sq. of Russian big birds after, say, 2015. I am just talking about the possibility. But, the thing is, we need another two sq. of next generation planes in order to make BAF a well balanced airforce.


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## chisty_chowdhury

We also need one squadron of maritime fighter aircraft to safe guard our EEZ.

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## eastwatch

chisty_chowdhury said:


> We also need one squadron of maritime fighter aircraft to safe guard our EEZ.



BN already has a few units of toothless patrol planes and helis to fly over the EEZ to check if our two greedy neighbours are inching towards our sea territory. But, I understand that the 16 F-7BGI planes that BAF inducts this year will be placed in the newly built Cox's Bazaar air base, may be in a mix of old, new and with Mig-29s. If so, then these planes can do the maritime job of safeguarding the EEZ, isn't it? Without an aircraft carrier BN will have to depend upon land-based BAF planes.


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## TopCat

eastwatch said:


> BN already has a few units of toothless patrol planes and helis to fly over the EEZ to check if our two greedy neighbours are inching towards our sea territory. But, I understand that the 16 F-7BGI planes that BAF inducts this year will be placed in the newly built Cox's Bazaar air base, may be in a mix of old, new and with Mig-29s. If so, then these planes can do the maritime job of safeguarding the EEZ, isn't it? *Without an aircraft carrier BN* will have to depend upon land-based BAF planes.



As there is a remote possibility of war with India, we should look for some potent enemy outside of sub continent. Aircraft carrier is a good way to go for that. Whats your take on that?


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## Zabaniyah

^Yes, MiG-29s can perform maritime recon and combat operations. 

Although since Myanmar are already using ten MiG-29s (more on order if I am not mistaken), I'd be better to go for a more advanced and capable plane in my opinion. Don't ask me which one. 

The SMT variant has potent air-to-ground capabilities however. Just lower payload than the SU-30MK. 

The BAF still lacks net-centric warfare capabilities. For now, it can only be a defensive air force at best.

My wishlist would be Gripen NG/F-16 E/F + Erieye package 

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------




iajdani said:


> As there is a remote possibility of war with India, we should look for some potent enemy outside of sub continent. Aircraft carrier is a good way to go for that. Whats your take on that?



ACs are extremely expensive to build and maintain. Only large and at least regional power countries have that. The one Thailand has is nothing but a fishing trawler 

BN can set that as a long term goal. Real long term 

I'd focus more having advantage on the weaker one - Myanmar


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## eastwatch

iajdani said:


> As there is a remote possibility of war with India, we should look for some potent enemy outside of sub continent. Aircraft carrier is a good way to go for that. Whats your take on that?


Of course, BD does not need an aircraft carrier, because we are not a superpower that needs to project its power outside its own hemisphere like the USA does time to time. We are not even a regional power and we will never become one. We have a such a small geography that is located at the very north of Bay of Bengal and far away from all the countries of SE asia.

Considering from the viewpoint of an aircraft carrier, the BoB is almost as small as a lake. Instead of an aircraft carrier, BN will have to equip itself with more number of missile frigates, corvettes, large, medium and small missile patrol crafts, maritime aircrafts. Then it must induct at least four submarines and one or two destroyers. All these together can possibly defend our water.


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## Major Shaheb

chisty_chowdhury said:


> Couple of days ago I saw a helo flying in the sky which was a bit different than the other helos that fly over here. Generally Bell 206, Bell 212 and Mi-X fly over our sky. Among them Bell has stands. What I saw that day, a helicopter with no stand but three wheel and a distinct structure that I have shown below----
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was far above me but I saw the distinct part. So was it that EC175, I am not 100% sure but I saw something different than the usual.
> 
> 
> Yes, I saw it too. But it was not a EC-175. It belongs to the Rotorwash International Aviation Services. Its a business helicopter. Its a Bell-222:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The sweet part is: It is of the same type of helicopter that was used in the Hit TV series Airwolf:

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## Zabaniyah

We have Airwolf! 

Yes, they do offer business services in Bangladesh.
http://www.rotorwashinternational.c...c1b0d293fe68b437207&topic=491.msg1204#msg1204


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## Major Shaheb

Yeah! You could say that!!! But not for Army or Navy or Air force. A business helicopter of the same type.


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## FairAndUnbiased

Bangladesh should start moving on to JF-17 when additional orders it comes out for export.


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## Major Shaheb

FairAndUnbiased said:


> Bangladesh should start moving on to JF-17 when additional orders it comes out for export.



Again JF-17!! Whats wrong with you guys. BD had already ordered F-7BGI and in the process of ordering 20-32 F-16 or mig-29smt or su-30 or jas-39. There is no scope of JF-17 here. JF-17 is history for BAF. forget it.


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## kobiraaz

looks like the ban didnt work last time!!

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## Laughing_soldier

iajdani said:


> As there is a remote possibility of war with India, we should look for some potent enemy outside of sub continent. Aircraft carrier is a good way to go for that. Whats your take on that?


 
In which world these people live?  War with India and they need aircraft carrier!!!   Try to have few good naval boats and corvettes first. 

Even you ever think of a war with India than go and wait in the jungle, I am coming after you. I am a 6'2" tall Sikh. 


do not let general Bangladeshi to die for your stupid dreams.


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## kobiraaz

^^^ It was sarcasm!! where is your brain?? knee???

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## integra

Laughing_soldier said:


> In which world these people live?  War with India and they need aircraft carrier!!!   Try to have few good naval boats and corvettes first.
> 
> Even you ever think of a war with India than go and wait in the jungle, I am coming after you. I am a 6'2" tall Sikh.
> 
> 
> do not let general Bangladeshi to die for your stupid dreams.



Dear, Hitler and Nepoleon was 5'7 and 5'6 respectively.
>< O, so was Alexander.


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## DESERT FIGHTER

Laughing_soldier said:


> In which world these people live?  War with India and they need aircraft carrier!!!   Try to have few good naval boats and corvettes first.
> 
> Even you ever think of a war with India than go and wait in the jungle, I am coming after you. I am a 6'2" tall Sikh.
> 
> 
> do not let general Bangladeshi to die for your stupid dreams.



Like i said every indian on PDF is above 6"2...lol....... as for sikh is tht a super power?


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## Emmie

Major Shaheb said:


> You may go and ban us 1000 times but that shall not stop us from slamming the truth on ur face. Ban of a lifetime shall not make ur JF-17 anywhere comparable with our Mig-29 or the future fighters not it shall put JF-17 anywhere better than 3++ generation. Go ahead ban me if you want for my statement. if you can!!



Put JFT aside for a while... Now enlighten me what 3rd and 4th generation aircraft are in actual? On what criteria do you add plus sign with a generation?


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## kobiraaz

Major Shaheb said:


> And yours is under your pillow. lol lol lol



you didn't get me. i want you to stay in this forum as you know military better than many Bangladeshi members here. This anti Jf17 debate will lead you to permanent ban surely. If anyone suggests Jf-17 politely answer them that Bangladesh went for BGI....


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## Al-zakir

Major Shaheb said:


> Again JF-17!! Whats wrong with you guys. BD had already ordered F-7BGI and in the process of ordering 20-32 F-16 or mig-29smt or su-30 or jas-39. There is no scope of JF-17 here. JF-17 is history for BAF. forget it.



Which fighter plane Bangladesh make that you are brushing off JF-17 as if Bd is too good for JF-17. I find you guys funny sometime.


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## Major Shaheb

Faarhan said:


> you didn't get me. i want you to stay in this forum as you know military better than many Bangladeshi members here. This anti Jf17 debate will lead you to permanent ban surely. If anyone suggests Jf-17 politely answer them that Bangladesh went for BGI....



I was never anti JF-17. I really appreciate that Pakistan made a decent and almost 4 gen fighter aircraft. It is good in Attack, Close air support, fighter bomber role and also has some air to air capability. It surely can (if they market it properly) replace all the mig-23, mig-27, Jaguar, Mirage-3.5, Su-17,22, Q-5, F-5, A-4 in service with many countries around the globe. It also has potent capability to replace A-10 from US and Su-25 from Russian service. However, it is not that potent (agility, speed, firepower, avionics, Electronics, Recon, Countermeasure, ECM etc.) in air to air operation. So, you can also suggest that I am a big fan of the aircraft when you are talking about air to ground operation. It can do great on that. But Im not at all impressed with its air to air capability. 

Its not just me. All those who are writing here will agree with me on the above facts. Even then they will suggest JF-17 over F-16 or mig-29 or JAS-39. Why! price cannt be the only determinant for future fighter aircraft.

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## Major Shaheb

Al-zakir said:


> *Which fighter plane Bangladesh make* that you are brushing off JF-17 as if Bd is too good for JF-17. I find you guys funny sometime.



I will answer this after 20 years in the year 2032.

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## Emmie

Major you deserve a kudos for your brilliant brain and unmatched analysis.

I would request you to eliminate jaguar from list for one logic - Indians are going to keep it in service till 2025-2030. You better add Mig-21 Bison because Indians are no more interested in it, Mig-21 are to be phased out from IAF by 2017.. BTW aint F-7 and Mig-21 same?


I am still waiting for your reply to my question on previous page...

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## Luftwaffe

MiG-21...

*Why is it so hard for you to accept the MiG-21 has advantages over JF-17*

mig hasn't been against JFT nor has JFT against mig thus it is pointless to falsely make a 50's/60's mig superior to a 2000ish JFT.

*Why is it so hard for you to accept that a MiG-21 if outgunned can use its speed as its defense and make a tactical retreat* 

Once locked mig-21 would be a falling debris speed of locked missile against mig-21 rarely would mig escape.

*far better than the JF-17.* 

Not proven not pitted against thus pointless post.

*Why can't such a situation be compared with a JF-17? JF-17 will never face such a situation according to you?
Or are you implying multirole fighters don't have much speed because they have to concentrate on other capabilities? MiG-29 has both speed and multirole capabilities. So does the Su-27 & the F-15. Hell even the single engined multirole Gripen & Mirage-2000 has both. Just because JF-17 doesn't have speed, suddenly speed became a non-issue?* 

I am not sure who told you what, mach 1.8 is just fine. Have you check thrust to weight ratio mig-21 is 0.79 and JFT is 0.82 If Pakistan wanted wp-13 could have been installed instead of a russian RD- then there would have been considerable changes to the design along with lesser dry thrust around 40-44KN compared to RD series and then reliability issue. Have you compared notes J-7 engine(s) to mig-21 both having mach 2.0, if we go by your logic of speed advantage Pakistan could have opted and installed WP-13/F as interim solution.

*USAF was so concerned about the time spent during a mission in the hostile hot zone*

What is hostile hot zone or are you trying to say engagement zone.

*they asked the designers to make F-22 raptor's speed high and at the same time fuel efficient. Hence super cruise was born. F-22 can reach 1.8M without using afterburners. With afterburners, it can reach 2.25M. I guess everyone are morons then, and only JF-17's designers and it's fanboys are right in keeping JF-17s speed low.*

Not sure why morons have to compare and present F-22 to JF-17, so far I have not seen contractions from JF-17 supporters.

Your fight continue around mig-21 speed I told you WP-13/F is also mach 2.0 PAF could have opted for that engine but PAF knew China was working on an engine in the class with 98/100KN thrust and mach 2.0 with design specs some what similar to russian RD series thus it was feasible and much better option and generations ahead of WP-13 engine for PAF to opt for RD and wait for WS series.


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## Emmie

^^ Americans and all those who are participating in F-35 program are moron for investing on a jet which has a maximum speed of 1.6 mach.. At least major thinks this way!!


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## Imran Khan

Emmie said:


> ^^ Americans and all those who are participating in F-35 program are moron for investing on a jet which has a maximum speed of 1.6 mach.. At least major thinks this way!!



damn we are crazy man we retired our F-104s they have speed more then f-22 f-35

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## saiyan0321

> Bangladesh should start moving on to JF-17 when additional orders it comes out for export.



we first need to complete our requirements then think of sale not the other way aroundP


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## saiyan0321

> damn we are crazy man we retired our F-104s they have speed more then f-22 f-35
> 
> 
> Click here to view the original image of 750x500px.



still looks awsome it was a good plane and served us alot better in our wars didnt let us down at all


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## Luftwaffe

Major Shaheb said:


> Again JF-17!! Whats wrong with you guys. BD had already ordered F-7BGI and in the process of ordering 20-32 F-16 or mig-29smt or su-30 or jas-39. There is no scope of JF-17 here. JF-17 is history for BAF. forget it.


 
Really 20-32 F-16s do you have mines of dollar? BAF barely has $700M budget for its Air Force annually. It had cost $3.1B for PAF to order 18 F-16s Blk 52 and associated weapons-equipment etc. 

Although this has been discussed to death that Bangladesh is operating Mig-29s with terrible maintenance yet it would choose mig-29 for the sake of equipment commonality. All other western equipment would be under strict observation and visits don't believe it google it your self. If Malaysia is finding it hard to maintain mig-29s with larger budget its hard to swallow how BAF is keeping migs fly worthy. 

There is no question about it sukhoi-30 would be a very good option for BAF post 2017 but why not sukhoi 35 but why would you get it when hindustan has a strong lobby.

F-16, gripen with hindustani strong lobby, there are very few chance you'll get it and even if you get it these are sanction prone and subject to strictest checks-observations. 

You fanboys have yet to point out why JFT is not fit for BAF. 
Engine? don't you operate russian engine RD on mig-29, 
Is it radar? KLJ-7 is far superior to any Radar in BAF's inventory, 
Is it avionics? refer to the avionics they are superior based on 4+ Gen Ref to JF-17 thread. Is it weapons SD-10 is better than anything BAF has.

Remember it is not you or me it is your AF decision.

AFAIK at one end it would be russian inventory and at the other end Chinese  forgot amrikan-swedes its not coming your way. BAF will always maintain High Low combination.


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## Emmie

Imran Khan said:


> damn we are crazy man we retired our F-104s they have speed more then f-22 f-35



Lol.. Also, why did Americans retired their F-105 Thunderchief ? Aircraft had an awesome speed of 2.08 mach!!


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## saiyan0321

jf17 is best for cost management airforce no game around it for a cheap price it can offer capabilities of a 4 generation fighter baf does not have an enormous budget it will be best for them but if they dont want it then so be it. we are just saying whats good for you but if you dont want to listen then fine by us... if it satisfies you then so be it


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## Imran Khan

for me JF-17 is for us and its our working horse we have no problem its 1th gen or micky mouse as long as its work well for us . we never work 9 years on it with 500mn$ for make it fit for any other nation but we work for pakistan .


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## Avisheik

Imran Khan said:


> damn we are crazy man we retired our F-104s they have speed more then f-22 f-35



Just because its fast does not mean its good for combat, not in today's combat grounds, where SAMS can speeds of 5 mach or above. The aircraft cant outrun the missile, but it can out-maneuver it. But it is near impossible to maneuver a jet travelling at 2+ mach. 

So nowadays, the aircraft manufacturers are building jets that have lesser speed, as it is financially unwise to build mach 2 or above jets.


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## Avisheik

Luftwaffe said:


> *Really 20-32 F-16s do you have mines of dollar? BAF barely has $700M budget for its Air Force annually.* It had cost $3.1B for PAF to order 18 F-16s Blk 52 and associated weapons-equipment etc.
> 
> Although this has been discussed to death that Bangladesh is operating Mig-29s with terrible maintenance yet it would choose mig-29 for the sake of equipment commonality. All other western equipment would be under strict observation and visits don't believe it google it your self. If Malaysia is finding it hard to maintain mig-29s with larger budget its hard to swallow how BAF is keeping migs fly worthy.
> 
> There is no question about it sukhoi-30 would be a very good option for BAF post 2017 but why not sukhoi 35 but why would you get it when hindustan has a strong lobby.
> 
> F-16, gripen with hindustani strong lobby, there are very few chance you'll get it and even if you get it these are sanction prone and subject to strictest checks-observations.
> 
> You fanboys have yet to point out why JFT is not fit for BAF.
> Engine? don't you operate russian engine RD on mig-29,
> Is it radar? KLJ-7 is far superior to any Radar in BAF's inventory,
> Is it avionics? refer to the avionics they are superior based on 4+ Gen Ref to JF-17 thread. Is it weapons SD-10 is better than anything BAF has.
> 
> Remember it is not you or me it is your AF decision.
> 
> AFAIK at one end it would be russian inventory and at the other end Chinese  forgot amrikan-swedes its not coming your way. BAF will always maintain High Low combination.



Bro, there is a article by jane's defence magazine, that says bangladesh will go for either F16, mig 29, Su 30 or Gripen in the future(around 2020), mention by bangladesh air force. So yeah, they will cost quite a lot, but since we have 8 years to save up, i think we can go for a squadron of them

Yea, i agree with you on the mig 29 part.

India may have lobby for su 30, but so do china. Btw, americans wanted us to buy f 16, as i am told by some of the members. For me gripen will be the best option, single engine and very good in air. Bangladesh air force is a defensive organisation, let them come and do their checks, we wont be using them unless we are defending ourselves.

Well you see, the other aircrafts were tested by time. So yeah, since JF 17 is relatively a new aircraft, we do not want to take any chances right now. Furthermore, china is not buying them as much as expected, so yeah taking no chances

However, i think Jf17 will make a good replacement for our f7 later in future, where hopefully our economy will be bigger


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## mil-avia

*Possible cockpit parameters of F-7 BGI fighter aircraft :*




*Related photo of earlier F-7 BG aircraft cockpit in post # 1264 of another thread.*


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## Luftwaffe

Avisheik...*Bro, there is a article by jane's defence magazine, that says bangladesh will go for either F16, mig 29, Su 30 or Gripen in the future(around 2020), mention by bangladesh air force*

Long way to go many reports have been re-corrected updated back like brazil and swiss procurements their dates that are delayed and stalled deals, so even then i would not take janes defense word until it happens.

*So yeah, they will cost quite a lot, but since we have 8 years to save up, i think we can go for a squadron of them.* 

It is not that BAF would be able to procure it, it is the the platform sanction prone both US-Sweden. Which variant would BAF go for what sort of upgrades would be available currently the basic gripen is $55M, Also what if JF-17 Block III is offered in future around 2019 at 35% less which is completely different from Block I/II JFT then gripen's cost.

*India may have lobby for su 30, but so do china. *

China cannot sell Flankers. hindustan would never let you acquire advance version of Flankers but standard version on top of it if russians impose no third party upgrades without russian consent.

*Btw, americans wanted us to buy f 16, as i am told by some of the members. For me gripen will be the best option, single engine and very good in air. Bangladesh air force is a defensive organization, let them come and do their checks, we wont be using them unless we are defending ourselves.*

You did not understand US-Sweden can and will block spares and upgrades upon hindustani request in case of conflict-War, the lobby is simply too strong. Every F-16 buyer apart from Europe-U.A.E had suffered sanctions/blockade of equipment Egpyt no AMRAAM, Jordon very limited AMRRAMs (Pakistan-Iran-Venezula-Indonesia)

*Well you see, the other aircrafts were tested by time. So yeah, since JF 17 is relatively a new aircraft, we do not want to take any chances right now. *

F-35 is new why is europe taking chances on new Jet? Please explain. Mig-29 was not even inducted in russian air force when hindustan ordered it for IAF, J-7 was so new and yet 15-17 nations ordered it in 1970s. 

*China is not buying them as much as expected, so yeah taking no chances.*

U.A.E operates F-16 Block 60 has been operating successfully USAF don't now you explain your no chances dilemma. China could opt for Block II or Block III which would still be relatively much more cheaper in cost and to operate then J-10B.

*However, i think Jf17 will make a good replacement for our f7 later in future, where hopefully our economy will be bigger.*

Why would BAF replace F-7 with JF-17 Block? when future block of JFT would have the same capabilities as gripen. Makes no sense.


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## Avisheik

Luftwaffe said:


> Avisheik...*Bro, there is a article by jane's defence magazine, that says bangladesh will go for either F16, mig 29, Su 30 or Gripen in the future(around 2020), mention by bangladesh air force*
> 
> Long way to go many reports have been re-corrected updated back like brazil and swiss procurements their dates that are delayed and stalled deals, so even then i would not take janes defense word until it happens.
> 
> *So yeah, they will cost quite a lot, but since we have 8 years to save up, i think we can go for a squadron of them.*
> 
> It is not that BAF would be able to procure it, it is the the platform sanction prone both US-Sweden. Which variant would BAF go for what sort of upgrades would be available currently the basic gripen is $55M, Also what if JF-17 Block III is offered in future around 2019 at 35% less which is completely different from Block I/II JFT then gripen's cost.
> 
> *India may have lobby for su 30, but so do china. *
> 
> China cannot sell Flankers. hindustan would never let you acquire advance version of Flankers but standard version on top of it if russians impose no third party upgrades without russian consent.
> 
> *Btw, americans wanted us to buy f 16, as i am told by some of the members. For me gripen will be the best option, single engine and very good in air. Bangladesh air force is a defensive organization, let them come and do their checks, we wont be using them unless we are defending ourselves.*
> 
> You did not understand US-Sweden can and will block spares and upgrades upon hindustani request in case of conflict-War, the lobby is simply too strong. Every F-16 buyer apart from Europe-U.A.E had suffered sanctions/blockade of equipment Egpyt no AMRAAM, Jordon very limited AMRRAMs (Pakistan-Iran-Venezula-Indonesia)
> 
> *Well you see, the other aircrafts were tested by time. So yeah, since JF 17 is relatively a new aircraft, we do not want to take any chances right now. *
> 
> F-35 is new why is europe taking chances on new Jet? Please explain. Mig-29 was not even inducted in russian air force when hindustan ordered it for IAF, J-7 was so new and yet 15-17 nations ordered it in 1970s.
> 
> *China is not buying them as much as expected, so yeah taking no chances.*
> 
> U.A.E operates F-16 Block 60 has been operating successfully USAF don't now you explain your no chances dilemma. China could opt for Block II or Block III which would still be relatively much more cheaper in cost and to operate then J-10B.
> 
> *However, i think Jf17 will make a good replacement for our f7 later in future, where hopefully our economy will be bigger.*
> 
> Why would BAF replace F-7 with JF-17 Block? when future block of JFT would have the same capabilities as gripen. Makes no sense.




-Well the article said that our air cheif himself mentioned that we are going for these either four aircrafts. As our military cheif have delivered what they had promised so far( frigates, SPH and all) i am banking on this guys words.

-Bro, india is not the boss of US, Russia. I think US, russia will still sell spares to us as it is to their own benefit, in case we go to war. Finally, india is not the only frenemy we have. One of the main reason we are modernising ourselves is because of the Burma naval standoff.

- Yeah, you are right about the russian part about not getting upgrades without their consent

- We cant take chances like europe cos we are a poor country. I mean just look at our inventory. The money we save up to buy the planes is a lot for us. We simply cant take chances with national security. 

- US used to operate a lot of f 16s last time. But they moved on to other planes now. China however, is not operating or ordering them, even though it has been produced for some time now

- JFT block 2 perhaps to replace our f-7s. Yeah, JFT will continue to improve with time, but so will the gripen or the the other planes.


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## Zabaniyah

I think that India is in no position to go bossing around the USA. 

If there is a business deal between the Washington and Dhaka, it'll purely be between us and them. Even given America's negative role in the Liberation War (thanks to that nuthead Nixon), Bangladesh has never participated in any anti-American activities whatsoever. 

Ignoring the Yunus drama (thanks to nuthead Hasina), US-BD relations are generally very positive. 

Bangladesh did request F-16s back in the 80's during the Ershad regime. My suspicions was that he was afraid that the Indian-backed Shanti Bahini matter may have potentially got out of control. The US refused the F-16s at the time, and thankfully Shanti Bahini were finished with international support. This happened during the Cold War. 

The same applies to Russia, but we have to note that India has a strong lobby at The Kremlin. And we are still wondering why we can't upgrade our current MiG-29s to SMT standards? The MiG-29 case was a controversial one, and there were good reasons for that. 

It is safe to say that India's policy toward Bangladesh hasn't changed much since 1971. 

We have to note that ammo and spares from the US are very expensive. So, it maybe a bit heavy on the wallet. Another factor we may have to take into account is what block will they be offering to us. Would they offer us the AMRAAM? Harpoon? And other goodies?

JF-17? It's a cost effective solution. But then, would they be willing to offer us the ones with the latest features? That I can't say even given our modest relations with India. And then...there is Burma, another potential candidate for the JF-17. 

As far as the JF-17 goes, usually the best solution is the simplest one. An AWACS package would complete the deal.

Anyhow, BAF must weigh the available options carefully and that which is best suited for the country's interests. I'd really suggest some effective lobbying in Washington and Beijing, something we are pretty weak at.

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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> MiG-21...
> 
> *Why is it so hard for you to accept the MiG-21 has advantages over JF-17*
> 
> mig hasn't been against JFT nor has JFT against mig thus it is pointless to falsely make a 50's/60's mig superior to a 2000ish JFT.
> 
> *Why is it so hard for you to accept that a MiG-21 if outgunned can use its speed as its defense and make a tactical retreat*
> 
> Once locked mig-21 would be a falling debris speed of locked missile against mig-21 rarely would mig escape.
> 
> *far better than the JF-17.*
> 
> Not proven not pitted against thus pointless post.
> 
> *Why can't such a situation be compared with a JF-17? JF-17 will never face such a situation according to you?
> Or are you implying multirole fighters don't have much speed because they have to concentrate on other capabilities? MiG-29 has both speed and multirole capabilities. So does the Su-27 & the F-15. Hell even the single engined multirole Gripen & Mirage-2000 has both. Just because JF-17 doesn't have speed, suddenly speed became a non-issue?*
> 
> I am not sure who told you what, mach 1.8 is just fine. Have you check thrust to weight ratio mig-21 is 0.79 and JFT is 0.82 If Pakistan wanted wp-13 could have been installed instead of a russian RD- then there would have been considerable changes to the design along with lesser dry thrust around 40-44KN compared to RD series and then reliability issue. Have you compared notes J-7 engine(s) to mig-21 both having mach 2.0, if we go by your logic of speed advantage Pakistan could have opted and installed WP-13/F as interim solution.
> 
> *USAF was so concerned about the time spent during a mission in the hostile hot zone*
> 
> What is hostile hot zone or are you trying to say engagement zone.
> 
> *they asked the designers to make F-22 raptor's speed high and at the same time fuel efficient. Hence super cruise was born. F-22 can reach 1.8M without using afterburners. With afterburners, it can reach 2.25M. I guess everyone are morons then, and only JF-17's designers and it's fanboys are right in keeping JF-17s speed low.*
> 
> Not sure why morons have to compare and present F-22 to JF-17, so far I have not seen contractions from JF-17 supporters.
> 
> Your fight continue around mig-21 speed I told you WP-13/F is also mach 2.0 PAF could have opted for that engine but PAF knew China was working on an engine in the class with 98/100KN thrust and mach 2.0 with design specs some what similar to russian RD series thus it was feasible and much better option and generations ahead of WP-13 engine for PAF to opt for RD and wait for WS series.




Not again! 

You are brilliant. At Mig-21 (Gen 3) 3rd generation starts and at F-7BG (Gen 3+) it matures and at JF-17 (Gen 3++) it masters. And how brilliant you are that you are comparing Gen 3 with Gen 3++. Bravo. Its like you are comparing north pole with south. Brilliant. 

If you are falling short of info on the fighters then please, for your kind information visit my posts. You will find detailed there:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-23.html#post2416933

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-23.html#post2417116


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## Major Shaheb

Avisheik said:


> Just because its fast does not mean its good for combat, not in today's combat grounds, where SAMS can speeds of 5 mach or above. The aircraft cant outrun the missile, but it can out-maneuver it. But it is near impossible to maneuver a jet travelling at 2+ mach.
> 
> *So nowadays, the aircraft manufacturers are building jets that have lesser speed, as it is financially unwise to build mach 2 or above jets.*



Yeah. Like:

Jet Speed
Mig-29K M 2.05
Mig-35 M 2.25
Su-30MKM M 1.9
J-10 M 2.2
EF-2000 M 2
Rafale M 1.9
JAS-39 M 2
F-15SE M 2.5
F-22 M 2.25
PAK-FA M 2.1
J-20 M 2.5 (Projected)


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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Not again!
> 
> You are brilliant. At Mig-21 (Gen 3) 3rd generation starts and at F-7BG (Gen 3+) it matures and at JF-17 (Gen 3++) it masters. And how brilliant you are that you are comparing Gen 3 with Gen 3++. Bravo. Its like you are comparing north pole with south. Brilliant.
> 
> If you are falling short of info on the fighters then please, for your kind information visit my posts. You will find detailed there:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-23.html#post2416933
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-23.html#post2417116



And again you are whining over the hearsay that the FC-1 is a 3rd generation plane. 

No worries, no sane person is going to buy your BS.


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## farhan_9909

Major Shaheb said:


> Not again!
> 
> You are brilliant. At Mig-21 (Gen 3) 3rd generation starts and at F-7BG (Gen 3+) it matures and at JF-17 (Gen 3++) it masters. And how brilliant you are that you are comparing Gen 3 with Gen 3++. Bravo. Its like you are comparing north pole with south. Brilliant.
> 
> If you are falling short of info on the fighters then please, for your kind information visit my posts. You will find detailed there:
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-23.html#post2416933
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...d-16-f-7bgi-light-fighter-23.html#post2417116



wow sir how intelligent you are?
now tell me what are the difference between 3rd and 3rd++ and 4th gen aircrafts?

with the block II upgrades the JFT will clearly no more a simple 4th gen fighter bt rather a 4th++

those spec you see on PAC and wiki are 5-6 years old.
the latests specs were revealed by jf-17 head from china side in dubai airshow..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...-explains-capability-jf-17-dubai-airshow.html

Now plzz after watching this get this into your mind forever

and still if you think JFT is a 3rd gen fighter than plzz explain.

though i am sure after watching this your false thinking will change


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## farhan_9909

eastwatch said:


> Sikhs and brains do not match each other. Their brains are in their stupid big ***.



racist comment i must say

i am nt a sikh.bt plzz dnt be racist

during the world cup days i was in a saloon when a sikh said(in abu dhabi) once ball striked with the bengali batsman head and the empire gave LBW.

after taking review it was confirmed that indeed the empire was right as the height of that bengali batsman was equal to the wickets height 


*TIT for TAT*


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## pari.mehta

Dont see why people are acting like kids,
"India will block f-16 sales......"
"get jf 17 or tejas ........"
and all the 3rd gen crap. 

The officers of the BD air force didnt just wake up one fine day and think, lets get some planes today.
My guess is that they needed a certain numbers of planes to ensure deterrence and that all of bd has air cover if some thing were to happen.(god forbid, one of the 3-4 growing economies in S.asia  . lets keep the peace fellas.) 

Its like us getting the SPYDER sams or phalcon awacs. We have LRSAM etc projects going on but for short term we needed some awacs, and fast.

Also if you remember, the mig 21 bison that we have(despite all the crashes) is a beast of an interceptor with the Israeli jamming pod and bvr capability. 

Imho, smart move, getting some planes for cheap from china, saving for a bigger purchase in the future.


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## Avisheik

farhan_9909 said:


> racist comment i must say
> 
> i am nt a sikh.bt plzz dnt be racist
> 
> during the world cup days i was in a saloon when a sikh said(in abu dhabi) once ball striked with the bengali batsman head and the empire gave LBW.
> 
> after taking review it was confirmed that indeed the empire was right as the height of that bengali batsman was equal to the wickets height
> 
> 
> *TIT for TAT*



THe umpire is wrong, there is no HBW in cricket


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## kobiraaz

^ Tendulkar got out once head be4 wicket against Australia. He is not bengali.

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## shree835

Faarhan said:


> the article says these are new generation aircrafts with Hotash, 3 monitor, Gps guiding... I don't have enough knowledge. professionals may shed some light here...



I Believe you can Put more bright Light on this.


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## Zabaniyah

farhan_9909 said:


> wow sir how intelligent you are?
> now tell me what are the difference between 3rd and 3rd++ and 4th gen aircrafts?
> 
> with the block II upgrades the JFT will clearly no more a simple 4th gen fighter bt rather a 4th++
> 
> those spec you see on PAC and wiki are 5-6 years old.
> the latests specs were revealed by jf-17 head from china side in dubai airshow..
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...-explains-capability-jf-17-dubai-airshow.html
> 
> Now plzz after watching this get this into your mind forever
> 
> and still if you think JFT is a 3rd gen fighter than plzz explain.
> 
> though i am sure after watching this your false thinking will change



Best to leave it to his delusions mate.


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## Emmie

farhan_9909 said:


> wow sir how intelligent you are?
> now tell me what are the difference between 3rd and 3rd++ and 4th gen aircrafts?
> 
> with the block II upgrades the JFT will clearly no more a simple 4th gen fighter bt rather a 4th++
> 
> those spec you see on PAC and wiki are 5-6 years old.
> the latests specs were revealed by jf-17 head from china side in dubai airshow..
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-...-explains-capability-jf-17-dubai-airshow.html
> 
> *Now plzz after watching this get this into your mind forever
> 
> and still if you think JFT is a 3rd gen fighter than plzz explain.*
> 
> *though i am sure after watching this your false thinking will change*



By the time the fool has learned the game the players have dispersed.

This troll can't prove his claims, leave him..


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## farhan_9909

Major Shaheb said:


> Even after beating the Bangali with height, you have failed to control Bangladesh. Which you are still trying and as before failing. Keep trying. But you shall never succeed. You know why? Because you keep your brains under your pillow. You as always come short on brains. And the short height Bangali bits you always in that and did manage to get you out of their country just using brain. Great going.
> 
> *BANGLADESH ZINDABAD*



WEll i never meant to be racist.nor i hate bangladesh or bengali.i rather admire them and call for official apology from bangladesh

my Post was in response to one of the bengali who said Sikh brain are in their A**.which i strongly disliked

*BANGLADESH ZINDABAD*

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## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> You are seeing the video now!!! Its a 3 months old video. If I take reference from there then JF-17 cann't even fire a PL-9 missile (according to that video). It says JF-17 can fire SD-10A (did not mention its range though). It says, JF-17 has advanced radar but also did not mentioned its detection range!! why? It say it has ECM but did not mentioned range!! why? At the begining of the presentation he said the most attractive part of the aircraft. And that was not its radar, not speed, not its manuverability, not even its rate of climb, what they say the most attractive part is cost. And thats what im saying as always that THE COST CANNT BE THE ONLY DETERMINANT FOR FUTURE AIRCRAFT.



heey talk abut F-7BG(GARBAGE ) AND stick on your topic i next post should be on F-7bg NOT JF-17 ITS MY LAST WARNING TO YOU I AM LOSING MY MIND NOW ON YOUR RANTS    you post 100 on jf-17 and your topic is abut some thing else .and my dear MODs will wakeup now i hope so

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## Imran Khan

and if you feel so much pain in back come here and bash with us 


YOUR KANGLADESH IS NOT WORTHY TO SALE OUR WORKING HOURSE NOR WE OFFER YOU TO BUY IT NOT WE HAVE TIME TO MAKE FOR YOU AND CAN'T WE AFFORD TO GIVE IT WITH RAAD MISSILE - HIJARA orARB-1 or h-2 and h-4 types to people like you . you guys offered F-7 and be happy with it now idiot


http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/68207-jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-4-a.html

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## kobiraaz

farhan_9909 said:


> WEll i never meant to be racist.nor i hate bangladesh or bengali.i rather admire them and call for official apology from bangladesh
> 
> my Post was in response to one of the bengali who said Sikh brain are in their A**.which i strongly disliked
> 
> *BANGLADESH ZINDABAD*



kindly go to previous page and tell us who started this Racist conversation by bragging about his height??? yes sir tit for tat! we already did that after his remark......

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## Imran Khan

Faarhan said:


> kindly go to previous page and tell us who started this Racist conversation by bragging about his height??? yes sir tit for tat! we already did that after his remark......



TBH farhaaan you guys buy f-7 and do it all here what if you buy block-52? eat us alive? he post 90% on jf-17 insults others flame troll and bashing and post nothing abut this damn contract still can we blame others?


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## kobiraaz

^^^^ ignore him. it is the best solution..... Actually some pakistanis laughed about this F-7 decision in the 1st 2nd page of this thread. it pissed him off.....

I once laughed about our airforce in a friend's facebook status without knowing he has many BAF pilot in his frnds list....Guess what happened to me! attack after attack!! this guy is too much serious about BAF.


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## Zabaniyah

Guys, don't feed the troll. 

I've already explained the reasons why the BAF decided to go for F-7BGIs as a 'stop gap' here. And it doesn't have anything to do with the JF-17 being inferior. Only a fool would assume otherwise.


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## Emmie

Major Shaheb said:


> You are seeing the video now!!! Its a 3 months old video. If I take reference from there then JF-17 cann't even fire a PL-9 missile (according to that video). It says JF-17 can fire SD-10A (did not mention its range though). It says, JF-17 has advanced radar but also did not mentioned its detection range!! why? It say it has ECM but did not mentioned range!! why? At the begining of the presentation he said the most attractive part of the aircraft. And that was not its radar, not speed, not its manuverability, not even its rate of climb, what they say the most attractive part is cost. And thats what im saying as always that THE COST CANNT BE THE ONLY DETERMINANT FOR FUTURE AIRCRAFT.



Not interested throwing down gauntlet to your blahs... Just want to say one thing - if you detest everything related to Pakistan then what the heck are you doing at Pakistani defence forum? Why don't you go and break wind somewhere else, some Bangladeshi or Indian forum!!


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## Imran Khan

Zabaniya said:


> Guys, don't feed the troll.
> 
> I've already explained the reasons why the BAF decided to go for F-7BGIs as a 'stop gap' here. And it doesn't have anything to do with the JF-17 being inferior. Only a fool would assume otherwise.



but there are limits of bashing bhai . we have no hard feeling even BD buy f-35 . bd is one of 57 Muslim nations and you can see every muslim nation buy jets can be read news every month . so its mean they start bashing us ? look at 57 nations from Indonesia to Morocco everyone get best jets as they need or can afford it. what we have problem? why these BD guys have some special problem with pakistan and made in pakistan ? after 1971 we never seen a single hard official comment from pakistan to BD never seen our ministers politicians teachers think tanks bashing on BD but can be seen daily in Bangladesh bashing on pakistan . what you guys have problem now? in modern pakistan there is no any good bad feelings abut you guys .i am really sick now when i read every month some new hate drama .

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## Emmie

Faarhan said:


> ^^^^ ignore him. it is the best solution.....* Actually some pakistanis laughed about this F-7 decision in the 1st 2nd page of this thread. it pissed him off*.....
> 
> I once laughed about our airforce in a friend's facebook status without knowing he has many BAF pilot in his frnds list....Guess what happened to me! attack after attack!! this guy is too much serious about BAF.



So does this authorise this fool to continue with his BS? If people like him are pissed off then they better leave this forum, whatever the nationality of the individual is..


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## Irfan Baloch

need to cool down NOW

please

stick to the topic
if you dislike a plane then fine

just discuss the topic and get on with it


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## Manticore

Major Shaheb , all your points are outdated -- keep to the topic if you want to discuss f7, otherwise go to to info pool thread-- btw jft has fire pl5e2 and f-7 sub generations are 1,2,3,4 -including '1st gen' f-7 and this classification is not that of the general post cold war classicifications
Versions of the MiG-21 - MiG-21.de

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## Luftwaffe

Faarhan said:


> ^^^^ ignore him. it is the best solution..... Actually some pakistanis laughed about this F-7 decision in the 1st 2nd page of this thread. it pissed him off



Nobody should laugh about F-7 it has proven its worth in its time, BGI is the edge of F-7's upgraded technology by far very good. So Imran Khan you should not flairup at someone if someone reads-understands JFT qualities and yet does not acknowledge then leave him be not worth quarreling with. I have explained in detail F-16/Gripens/F-18 are not an option and would never land in BAF unless BAF wants to see itself in a position where PAF was in 90s. BAF needs to have atleast $2.4B ready to procure F-16s or Gripens and get ready for US or Swedish equipment to be thoroughly under surveillance and strict Checks. I already explained it cost Thailand around $2.4B to procure 2 AWE&C along with 12 Gripens how is it BAF would ever acquire 18 Gripens or F-16s for $1B impossible even if those F-16s are out of reserve stocks. 

That person is not understanding that Egypt Air Force or any other Air Force would opt JFT Block II not Block I it is what PAF inducted and would be upgraded to Block II in time but replacement would not come soon.

JFT Block II; RD-93 or Chinese WS engine, Better Avionics, Retractable in Flight Refueller Probe or atleast Fixed RF, Radar KLJ 7, the radar is far better than any radar in F-7/A-5/Mig-21/F-4/F-5 , Variety of munitions, Capabilities A2A/A2G/AntiShip
- customizable later on ALCM less range then 300KM can be acquired Turkey is working on it could be BAF's best option., BVR SD 10-A as export, Other short range missiles. Upgrades after Block II could commence like IRST and vice versa. It has been explain in detail in JF-17 thread by others.

All in all Block II would be standard and gives a lot than what non other fighter currently in market at a reasonable price tag offers not even Mig-29 the standard mig-29 is $30M, let me tell you the mig-29s Malaysia got were $35M each and it became pain in the arse for their Air Force to maintain, BAF would acquire most definitely a squadron for the sake of commonality as they are operating even being aware of the high operational costs it is to be seen if migs come from russian air force inventory as refurbished or new ones but most likely refurbished one from russian air force inventory refurbished extended life service as being low cost alternative at $25M atleast if someone claims $15M they are fools, russian did not spare hindustan look at the aircraft carrier procurement costs $15M is a big lie and not feasible. 

Reason to explain is so that major internet commando sahib can understand JFT fulfills the requirements of BAF under all circumstances in a Low Combination if even BAF pursue SU-30-35 in future for a higher end.


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## Luftwaffe

*Avisheik; -Well the article said that our air cheif himself mentioned that we are going for these either four aircrafts. As our military cheif have delivered what they had promised so far.*

Remember J-10, your air force said we'll get J-10, remember your air force said mig-29 years passed it has yet to materialize. 

*-Bro, india is not the boss of US, Russia. I think US, russia will still sell spares to us as it is to their own benefit, in case we go to war. Finally, india is not the only frenemy we have. One of the main reason we are modernizing ourselves is because of the Burma naval standoff.*

hindustan has a very strong lobby you might not get F-16s if you get it you would get something similar to Egyptians without AMRAAMs then what purpose does it serve if you are not equip with BVR AMRAAMs. With SU-30 you might get the standard variant but then again no guarantees in conflict-war times from russians on behest of hindustan. 

*- US used to operate a lot of f 16s last time. But they moved on to other planes now. China however, is not operating or ordering them, even though it has been produced for some time now.*

F-16s are going under upgrades with AESA both F-16s and F-15s moved on to other planes i don't know what do you mean by that what other plane is there F-18s are with Naval Wing. Did not understand Chinese part.

*- JFT block 2 perhaps to replace our f-7s. Yeah, JFT will continue to improve with time, but so will the gripen or the the other planes.*

Can BAF afford Gripens at $60M currently. The next Gen Gripen E/F would kick off in 2015 something along the lines of Typhoon.


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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> Nobody should laugh about F-7 it has proven its worth in its time, BGI is the edge of F-7's upgraded technology by far very good. So Imran Khan you should not flairup at someone if someone reads-understands JFT qualities and yet does not acknowledge then leave him be not worth quarreling with. I have explained in detail F-16/Gripens/F-18 are not an option and would never land in BAF unless BAF wants to see itself in a position where PAF was in 90s. BAF needs to have atleast $2.4B ready to procure F-16s or Gripens and get ready for US or Swedish equipment to be thoroughly under surveillance and strict Checks. I already explained it cost Thailand around $2.4B to procure 2 AWE&C along with 12 Gripens how is it BAF would ever acquire 18 Gripens or F-16s for $1B impossible even if those F-16s are out of reserve stocks.
> 
> That person is not understanding that Egypt Air Force or any other Air Force would opt JFT Block II not Block I it is what PAF inducted and would be upgraded to Block II in time but replacement would not come soon.
> 
> JFT Block II; RD-93 or Chinese WS engine, Better Avionics, Retractable in Flight Refueller Probe or atleast Fixed RF, *Radar KLJ 7, the radar is far better than any radar in F-7*/A-5/Mig-21/F-4/F-5 , Variety of munitions, Capabilities A2A/A2G/AntiShip
> - customizable later on ALCM less range then 300KM can be acquired Turkey is working on it could be BAF's best option., BVR SD 10-A as export, Other short range missiles. Upgrades after Block II could commence like IRST and vice versa. It has been explain in detail in JF-17 thread by others.
> 
> All in all Block II would be standard and gives a lot than what non other fighter currently in market at a reasonable price tag offers not even Mig-29 the standard mig-29 is $30M, let me tell you the mig-29s Malaysia got were $35M each and it became pain in the arse for their Air Force to maintain, BAF would acquire most definitely a squadron for the sake of commonality as they are operating even being aware of the high operational costs it is to be seen if migs come from russian air force inventory as refurbished or new ones but most likely refurbished one from russian air force inventory refurbished extended life service as being low cost alternative at $25M atleast if someone claims $15M they are fools, russian did not spare hindustan look at the aircraft carrier procurement costs $15M is a big lie and not feasible.
> 
> Reason to explain is so that major internet commando sahib can understand JFT fulfills the requirements of BAF under all circumstances in a Low Combination if even BAF pursue SU-30-35 in future for a higher end.



Cann't agree on that. If you say its better then I would agree but If you say far better then I would not. Cause, KLJ-7 has a look-up range of 75KM and the radar that F-7BG is using KLJ-6F and it has a look-up range of 65-70KM.

BAF is going to Procure 1 squadron of F-7BGI with a better radar than F-7BG. It shall have 3 MFD display, HOTAS, HUD, HMD, NVG, PGM & LGB. It is meant to replace A-5C/FT-6 from service and shall also be used as a stop-gap aircraft till the 4++ generation aircraft procurement deal finalize. The existing 8 mig-29 shall also be upgraded to SMT standard soon. 

I have always hated Awami League (AL) led govt. but this time I am liking them for one reason only. That is: The master plan they are executing. As it has become a trend in BD that when a govt. changes so does all the decisions taken by the past govt. To prevent that AL govt. is working on full swing to complete everything they have started within their time frame. And as for the fighter aircraft procurement program, they are planning now and shall execute it when they come to power again in 1919. 4-5 years is good time to deliver 20-32 aircraft i guess. The Air Force is positively looking forward to F-16 and Su-30 (my source says). Although I did not understand why are they planning to mix it up with US and Russian aircraft.

Air force is also positively looking forward to a 24 AJT (L-159, Mig-AT, M-346, and another contender the source could not confirm). BAF is also looking forward to replace its age old PT-6 in the near future.


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## Avisheik

Luftwaffe said:


> *Avisheik; -Well the article said that our air cheif himself mentioned that we are going for these either four aircrafts. As our military cheif have delivered what they had promised so far.*
> 
> Remember J-10, your air force said we'll get J-10, remember your air force said mig-29 years passed it has yet to materialize.
> 
> *-Bro, india is not the boss of US, Russia. I think US, russia will still sell spares to us as it is to their own benefit, in case we go to war. Finally, india is not the only frenemy we have. One of the main reason we are modernizing ourselves is because of the Burma naval standoff.*
> 
> hindustan has a very strong lobby you might not get F-16s if you get it you would get something similar to Egyptians without AMRAAMs then what purpose does it serve if you are not equip with BVR AMRAAMs. With SU-30 you might get the standard variant but then again no guarantees in conflict-war times from russians on behest of hindustan.
> 
> *- US used to operate a lot of f 16s last time. But they moved on to other planes now. China however, is not operating or ordering them, even though it has been produced for some time now.*
> 
> F-16s are going under upgrades with AESA both F-16s and F-15s moved on to other planes i don't know what do you mean by that what other plane is there F-18s are with Naval Wing. Did not understand Chinese part.
> 
> *- JFT block 2 perhaps to replace our f-7s. Yeah, JFT will continue to improve with time, but so will the gripen or the the other planes.*
> 
> Can BAF afford Gripens at $60M currently. The next Gen Gripen E/F would kick off in 2015 something along the lines of Typhoon.




- I dont know about the j 10 deal. Maybe it fell through or our air force wants some other kind of jets. I dont get the mig 29 part.

- I dont think india has a strong lobby in US, furthermore we are in the good books of the US(am talking bout gripen). i think they maybe it has a strong lobby in the kremlin. However, russia is like the weapons exporter of the world. We exported a lot from russia without much sanctions.

-What i meant was, last time US used to operate a lot of f16 (numerically) compared to now.

- Well china is not ordering jf 17 as of ye, they are in the evaluation process.

- Haha gripen is my choice for the BAF. Well bangladesh may be going for a $850 million arms deal with russia in the future. So i guess yeah we can afford it. (There is thread about it in bd section)


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## TopCat

Major Shaheb said:


> Cann't agree on that. If you say its better then I would agree but If you say far better then I would not. Cause, KLJ-7 has a look-up range of 75KM and the radar that F-7BG is using KLJ-6F and it has a look-up range of 65-70KM.
> 
> BAF is going to Procure 1 squadron of F-7BGI with a better radar than F-7BG. It shall have 3 MFD display, HOTAS, HUD, HMD, NVG, PGM & LGB. It is meant to replace A-5C/FT-6 from service and shall also be used as a stop-gap aircraft till the 4++ generation aircraft procurement deal finalize. The existing 8 mig-29 shall also be upgraded to SMT standard soon.
> 
> I have always hated Awami League (AL) led govt. but this time I am liking them for one reason only. That is: The master plan they are executing. As it has become a trend in BD that when a govt. changes so does all the decisions taken by the past govt. To prevent that AL govt. is working on full swing to complete everything they have started within their time frame. And as for the fighter aircraft procurement program, they are planning now and shall execute it when they come to power again in 1919. 4-5 years is good time to deliver 20-32 aircraft i guess.* The Air Force is positively looking forward to F-16 and Su-30 (my source says). *Although I did not understand why are they planning to mix it up with US and Russian aircraft.
> 
> Air force is also positively looking forward to a 24 AJT (L-159, Mig-AT, M-346, and another contender the source could not confirm). BAF is also looking forward to replace its age old PT-6 in the near future.



Does that mean, they going for both F16 and SU30 smultaneousy or they going to choose one of those two???


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## Avisheik

iajdani said:


> Does that mean, they going for both F16 and SU30 smultaneousy or they going to choose one of those two???


 
Probably choosing one. Its a logistical headache to run russian and american birds side by side


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## Major Shaheb

Avisheik said:


> Probably choosing one. Its a logistical headache to run russian and american birds side by side



They are already doing it in almost all other branches in BAF. For example, in transport aircraft role they have An-32 (Ukraine/Soviet) and C-130B (US). In Trainer role they have L-39ZA (Check) and T-37 Tweet (US), in rotor transport role they have Mi-17 (Russian) and UH-1N Tween Huey (US). The Ground based radars they have also does mix-up with Russian, Chinese, US, French.

I think my source meant the contract might get split between F-16 & Su-30. (Maybe one as tactical and the other as strategic purpose).


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## Avisheik

Major Shaheb said:


> They are already doing it in almost all other branches in BAF. For example, in transport aircraft role they have An-32 (Ukraine/Soviet) and C-130B (US). In Trainer role they have L-39ZA (Check) and T-37 Tweet (US), in rotor transport role they have Mi-17 (Russian) and UH-1N Tween Huey (US). The Ground based radars they have also does mix-up with Russian, Chinese, US, French.
> 
> I think my source meant the contract might get split between F-16 & Su-30. (Maybe one as tactical and the other as strategic purpose).


 
But transport or trainer aircraft arent hard to fly or maintain compared to fighter jets. Furthermore with our limited capability it be a headache getting spares buying missiles for different planes, according to their needs. (not that i am complaining if we get both of them)

Can you please post ur source


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## Zabaniyah

I am not sure if our small economy can support a heavy-class fighter like the SU-30MK. The BAF did once consider SU-27s, but was dropped due to budget constraints. They appear to be looking into it again.


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## TopCat

Zabaniya said:


> I am not sure if our small economy can support a heavy-class fighter like the SU-30MK. The BAF did once consider SU-27s, but was dropped due to budget constraints. They appear to be looking into it again.


 
Our military strategist are not bunch of idiots as you are alwys trying prove. Its a good idea of mixing both western and russians hardware as our neighbour is westernizing its weaponery left and right. Sure we do need some sort of parity with them. Indoneshia is operating both F-16 and SU-30 just fine.

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## monitor

if we can increase our defence budget gradually in future it may not be difficult to operate both western and eastern fighter for our Air force . our economy is booming so what the defence planners are doing is to getting touch them familiar with the western stuff so that whenever it will meet our budget we will start using both western and eastern fighter .

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## Zabaniyah

iajdani said:


> *Our military strategist are not bunch of idiots as you are alwys trying prove.* Its a good idea of mixing both western and russians hardware as our neighbour is westernizing its weaponery left and right. Sure we do need some sort of parity with them. Indoneshia is operating both F-16 and SU-30 just fine.



Since when did I say that? Or is it your usual point scoring? 

It's government and politics that come into play. Otherwise, the MiG-29 deal wouldn't have been so messy in the first place. We don't even know the status of all the 8 units.

Whatever equipment they are getting, it'd be best if they are synergistic with the current and future equipment. And done so cost-effectively.


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## Major Shaheb

Can anyone confirm the 4th contender for Advanced Jet Trainer replacement program? I know three: Mig-AT, M-346 and L-159.


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## monitor

Major Shaheb said:


> Can anyone confirm the 4th contender for Advanced Jet Trainer replacement program? I know three: Mig-AT, M-346 and L-159.



Most probably it will be L-159 i read somewhere but forgot where .


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## bd_4_ever

Major Shaheb said:


> Can anyone confirm the 4th contender for Advanced Jet Trainer replacement program? I know three: Mig-AT, M-346 and L-159.



There were few more...BAE Hawk, KAI T-50, Hongdu L-15, Guizhou FTC-2000.

All taken from the interview of AM Ziaul in 2009 with a defence magazine, posted here before.


Cheers!!!


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## Zabaniyah

bd_4_ever said:


> There were few more...BAE Hawk, KAI T-50, Hongdu L-15, Guizhou FTC-2000.
> 
> *All taken from the interview of AM Ziaul in 2009 with a defence magazine, posted here before.
> *
> 
> Cheers!!!



Could you post the link please?


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## bd_4_ever

Zabaniya said:


> Could you post the link please?



I opened that thread myself, give me some time...i will have to find it. But i had written down the planes names in a word doc., so pasted it from there.

I also remember Fatman Sir, from PDF, mailed me that version of the magazine...cant find that either.


Cheers!!!

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## bd_4_ever

AFM Battlin for BD - PDF

This is the link to the interview...read it below, you will find it.


Cheers!!!

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## Luftwaffe

*Major Shaheb;Cann't agree on that. If you say its better then I would agree but If you say far better then I would not. Cause, KLJ-7 has a look-up range of 75KM and the radar that F-7BG is using KLJ-6F and it has a look-up range of 65-70KM.*

Read Post # 3 & 4
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/87290-klj-7-radar-thunder.html


*4-5 years is good time to deliver 20-32 aircraft i guess. The Air Force is positively looking forward to F-16 and Su-30 (my source says).*

-F-16s are not coming (also 4 times the the budget of BAF) I assure you that BAF is not that fool they will do their homework before picking up a platform, you shall not have AMRAAMs simple is that Egypt is without AMRAAMS so I am not sure why would BAF procure F-16s without BVR as your sources predicts time of 4-5 Years. : ))

*Air force is also positively looking forward to a 24 AJT (L-159, Mig-AT, M-346, and another contender the source could not confirm). BAF is also looking forward to replace its age old PT-6 in the near future.*

L-159 most unlikely no more production. Mig-AT has potential so does Chinese JL-9/FTC-2000. M-346 is as expensive as JFT so explain why would you Opt M-346 and reject JFT.


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## Zabaniyah

As far as F-16s go, they haven't even said what block they'd be willing offer us. Let alone if they're willing to provide us AMRAAMs.


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## kobiraaz

* Those who are spreading this kind of lie shall see themselves in hell.*


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## Zabaniyah

^Okay, that was scary

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## Avisheik

Faarhan said:


> * Those who are spreading this kind of lie shall see themselves in hell.*



Hahaha, why so serious

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## integra

They should have ordered some Pandas ( costing $4-5 mils)
instead of F 7s , would have buzzed some tourists 
and save a few milions!

Absolute piece of junk.


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## Avisheik

integra said:


> They should have ordered some Pandas ( costing $4-5 mils)
> instead of F 7s , would have buzzed some tourists
> and save a few milions!
> 
> Absolute piece of junk.



We are gonna use them for a few years only so yeah, we must be patient. This planes are makeshift muscles to scare the burmese.

---------- Post added at 06:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:21 PM ----------


I think the budget for the defence procurement isnt included in the defence budget. Anyway we do not find ourselves in pressing military threats, so yeah, lets build them up slowly.


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## kobiraaz

lol, then who will pay for those fighters?? Awami Govt is out of reserve money... ??


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## integra

Avisheik said:


> We are gonna use them for a few years only so yeah, we must be patient. This planes are makeshift muscles to scare the burmese..



Lemme make this clear Sire!
The Burmese won't be scared of f 7 BGI , trust me on this.
Thats just not happening, if the priority felt on that node.
They have a squadron of Mig, with another on the queue.
It's a total waste of money , as the say, Poor Man Pays Twice. TTT


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## Avisheik

integra said:


> Lemme make this clear Sire!
> The Burmese won't be scared of f 7 BGI , trust me on this.
> Thats just not happening, if the priority felt on that node.
> They have a squadron of Mig, with another on the queue.
> It's a total waste of money , as the say, Poor Man Pays Twice. TTT



Burmese wont be scared, but we can contain them for some time, with these birds. Correct me if i am wrong but dont have a squadron of mig in the queue. Heck, even our current mig strength isnt enough to fill a squadron(12 birds minmum). Since these birds are newly produced for us(not second hand), they will make a great trainers later when we purchase other planes.


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## integra

Avisheik said:


> Burmese wont be scared, but we can contain them for some time, with these birds. *Correct me if i am wrong but dont have a squadron of mig in the queue. *Heck, even our current mig strength isnt enough to fill a squadron(12 birds minmum). Since these birds are newly produced for us(not second hand), they will make a great trainers later when we purchase other planes.



Was talking 'bout Burmese airforce
not ours.


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## Zabaniyah

The F-7BGI is meant to replace our A-5s. It is mainly for close air support operations. It has potent A2G capabilities, even given that it is a third generation plane.

The Burmese have 10 MiG-29SMTs (brand new), with more on order.

Another note is that their SAM system is pretty advanced. 

The BAF still lacks net-centric warfare capabilities. Which I believe is crucial for a small country like ours. Let's hope for the best for the BAF. There simply cannot be any compromise between what we get, and the realities on the field.

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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> *Major Shaheb;Cann't agree on that. If you say its better then I would agree but If you say far better then I would not. Cause, KLJ-7 has a look-up range of 75KM and the radar that F-7BG is using KLJ-6F and it has a look-up range of 65-70KM.*
> 
> Read Post # 3 & 4
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/87290-klj-7-radar-thunder.html
> 
> L-159 most unlikely no more production. Mig-AT has potential so does Chinese JL-9/FTC-2000. M-346 is as expensive as JFT so explain why would you Opt M-346 and reject JFT.



Whats your point. Jane says the same thing I am saying that KLJ-7 has a look-up range of 75 km. So....?

Who told you that L-159 is out of production? 

For your information, it is not me who opted for M-346, the BAF did. I did not reject anything. M-346 is the state-of-the-art LEAD IN JET TRAINER that can be programmed to imitate the performance of almost all 4+, 4++ and 5th generation fighter aircraft. What do u mean by JFT?

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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> The F-7BGI is meant to replace our A-5s. It is mainly for close air support operations. It has potent A2G capabilities, even given that it is a third generation plane.
> 
> The Burmese have 10 MiG-29SMTs (brand new), with more on order.
> 
> Another note is that their SAM system is pretty advanced.
> 
> The BAF still lacks net-centric warfare capabilities. Which I believe is crucial for a small country like ours. Let's hope for the best for the BAF. There simply cannot be any compromise between what we get, and the realities on the field.



Totally agree on that. 

Although the F-7BGI (according to some internal sources) shall have a pretty advanced radar (KLJ-6F) that has a range over 65 km, however its real capability comes in fighter bomber or close air support role armed with LGBs and PGMs. It shall be able to detect a destroyer sized target from 150+ km away at open sea. I do not know if BAF is considering any ASM but its radar suggests it is capable to utilize such. 

On the SAM part, we only have FM-90 (insufficient) and QW-2 (MANPAD) whereas Myanmar uses a variety of Chinese and Russian Short to Medium ranged and low to high altitude SAM systems. Only fools shall compare the SAM capability of Myanmar with Bangladesh. Once I heard somewhere that Bangladesh is positively thinking of BUKM1 missile systems but found no proof of same.

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## Major Shaheb

We currently have: 
Fighter - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 48 + 16 F-7BGI on order
08 = 06 Mig-29SE + 02 Mig-29UB
12 = 08 F-7MB + 04 FT-7 MB (Rest crashed and burned)
16 = 12 F-7BG + 04 FT-7 BG
12 = 06 A-5C + 06 FT-6 (to be replaced by 16 F-7BGI)

Trainer - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 57
08 = 08 L-39ZA
20 = 20 T-37C
29 = 29 BT-06

Transport - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 07
04 = 04 C-130B
03 = 03 AN-32

Helicopter - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 48
28 = 20 Mi-17 + 06 Mi-171SH + 02 Mi-17V
16 = 16 UH-1N
04 = 02 Bell-206L3 + 02 Bell-206L4

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## Luftwaffe

*Major Shaheb;Whats your point. Jane says the same thing I am saying that KLJ-7 has a look-up range of 75 km. So?*

My point is read my previous posts, the official brochure has a different range thus you are wrong I would take word out of CAC/PAC then Janes Defense. News always gets updated keep track of JFT Thread.

*For your information, it is not me who opted for M-346, the BAF did. *

No BAF did not, after few years of waiting BAF only opt for F-7BGI slow procurment process like hindustan with a different of budget constraint in BAF case, BAF cannot afford $21M Trainer, If you say Yes then JFT is far better product in all terms, If you say No then you are one confuse man.
*
I did not reject anything. M-346 is the state-of-the-art LEAD IN JET TRAINER that can be programmed to imitate the performance of almost all 4+, 4++ and 5th generation fighter aircraft. What do u mean by JFT.*

Now I know you have 0 knowledge of Aviation. Fail! After what I have read from you your logic fails Italy should replace F-16s and Typhoons with M-346 Geez!!


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## Zabaniyah

M-346? Do people know how much that costs?


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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> My point is read my previous posts, *the official brochure has a different range thus you are wrong I would take word out of CAC/PAC then Janes Defense. News always gets updated keep track of JFT Thread*.
> 
> No BAF did not, after few years of waiting BAF only opt for F-7BGI slow procurment process like hindustan with a different of budget constraint in BAF case, BAF cannot afford $21M Trainer, If you say Yes then JFT is far better product in all terms, If you say No then you are one confuse man.
> 
> Now I know you have 0 knowledge of Aviation. Fail! After what I have read from you your logic fails Italy should replace F-16s and Typhoons with M-346 Geez!!



1. Jane's says JF-17 radar has a look-up range of 75km and look-down range of 35km. I have said the same thing in all my posts. So, again what is your point? are you lost or something?

2. BAF is in the process of replacing both T-37Tweet and L-39ZA. They are looking for a better trainer options that can meet the training requirements for the future fighter procurement program. Over the last 4-5 years they have been planning and evaluating potential options in this regard. They have evaluated L-159 several times. However, it does not meet the air forces trainer requirement completely. They are now looking into much more advanced options like M-346, YAK-130, KAI T-50, BAE Hawk, Mig-AT, Hongdu L-15 etc. If you read Air Chief's statement in London he mentioned that the Air force is looking forward to replace the trainers. He also mentioned that the future procurement shall concentrate more on quality and electronics rather than quantity. He also said that even if the price is high then he will go for quality sacrificing quantity. 8-16 of these aircraft shall fulfill the requirement.

3. I said it can replicate the performance of many 4th to 5th generation fighters. Please, before coming to a stupid conclusion read well and understand what is been written there. Yes, they surely can put some M-346 or YAK-130 in their LIFT role before they send their pilots flying EF-2000. 

*For your reference:*

*a. Air force Technology:* The Avionica fly-by-wire flight control system is used to adjust the stability and controllability characteristics and flight safety systems to simulate a number of aircraft such as the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-30, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mirage 2000, Rafale, Typhoon and future fighters such as the F-35.

*b. Yakovlev official website: *The aircraft is equipped with complex fly-by-wire control system that functions as automatic flight control system, active flight safety system and provides in training stability and controllability characteristics change depending on the aircraft being simulated.

*c. Wikipedia: *As an advanced training aircraft, the Yak-130 is able to replicate the characteristics of several 4+ generation fighters as well as the fifth-generation Sukhoi T-50.


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> M-346? Do people know how much that costs?



I think BAF knows the cost very well. No offence but you being such a senior member should not comment in this manner.

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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> I think BAF knows the cost very well.* No offence but you being such a senior member should not comment in this manner.*



 

It's still rather expensive for a trainer. ~$25 million each and still under development. The BAE Hawk costs even more. 

I ask you to provide some source links for members to see. Not mere hearsay. This isn't exactly the place for that.


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## Luftwaffe

*Major Shaheb..Jane's says JF-17 radar has a look-up range of 75km and look-down range of 35km. I have said the same thing in all my posts. So, again what is your point? are you lost or something?*

Perfect in other words You reject the Makers word CAC/PAC and the brochure presented by CAC/PAC. 

*BAF is in the process of replacing both T-37Tweet and L-39ZA. They are looking for a better trainer options that can meet the training requirements for the future fighter procurement program. Over the last 4-5 years they have been planning and evaluating potential options in this regard. They have evaluated L-159 several times. However, it does not meet the air forces trainer requirement completely. They are now looking into much more advanced options like M-346, YAK-130, KAI T-50, BAE Hawk, Mig-AT, Hongdu L-15 etc.*

IF Mig-AT, Hawk, KAI T50 etc are the replacement in next 3-4 Years then what was the rush for F-7BGI which is 3 Gen compared. You still did not answer how are these Trainers (to be put to different role) better than JFT (And proposed JFT Twin Seat)

*If you read Air Chief's statement in London he mentioned that the Air force is looking forward to replace the trainers. He also mentioned that the future procurement shall concentrate more on quality and electronics rather than quantity. He also said that even if the price is high then he will go for quality sacrificing quantity. 8-16 of these aircraft shall fulfill the requirement.*

That is a bad news, this means BAF is looking into short legged platform. I can list numerous -VEs of these platform they still have limited role.

*I said it can replicate the performance of many 4th to 5th generation fighters. Please, before coming to a stupid conclusion read well and understand what is been written there. Yes, they surely can put some M-346 or YAK-130 in their LIFT role before they send their pilots flying EF-2000.* 

What is your reason behind replicate the performance, clearly JFT performance characteristics exceeds Just take RD-93 should have thrust no more than 83 KN compare it to all that you listed stands superior the only that comes close is 78KN KAI T-50 however I explained it to you earlier you are not getting AMRAAMs. I would again refer you to JF-17 Thread to read understand and compare to the platforms Trainers as an Alternate Role. PS. Sitting in JFT is also gives you the feel of 4++Gen  

*Air force Technology: The Avionica fly-by-wire flight control system is used to adjust the stability and controllability characteristics and flight safety systems to simulate a number of aircraft such as the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-30, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mirage 2000, Rafale, Typhoon and future fighters such as the F-35.*

Purpose to explain? Proceed to JFT Thread, I recommend Research before playing down on something.

*Yakovlev official website: The aircraft is equipped with complex fly-by-wire control system that functions as automatic flight control system, active flight safety system and provides in training stability and controllability characteristics change depending on the aircraft being simulated.*

Purpose to explain? Proceed to JFT Thread, I highly recommend Research before playing down on something.

*As an advanced training aircraft, the Yak-130 is able to replicate the characteristics of several 4+ generation fighters as well as the fifth-generation Sukhoi T-50.*

Look, It is a positive news whatever platform BAF chooses for a dual role or single role BUT You have to put JFT on merit plainly rejecting even after you have all the details infront of you is a bit naive. You pick wikipedia as your source so according to your wikipedia JFT come under this Category:

Aircraft of comparable role to F-16 (google wikipedia F-16 you get the result below), configuration and era (your favorite wikipedia : now don't reject your favorite source)

Chengdu J-10
Dassault Mirage 2000 (F-16 A/B Block-30 only)
McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet
Northrop F-20 Tigershark (F-16 A/B Block-10 only)
JAS 39 Gripen
JF-17 Thunder
Dassault Rafale
Mikoyan MiG-29
Northrop YF-17

So In the end you do not have authentic source(s) you down play a Fighter Jet just because you do not like it without researching comparing it with Trainer Platforms which can have limited role. Mate you need ground classes.


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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> *Major Shaheb..Jane's says JF-17 radar has a look-up range of 75km and look-down range of 35km. I have said the same thing in all my posts. So, again what is your point? are you lost or something?*
> 
> Perfect in other words You reject the Makers word CAC/PAC and the brochure presented by CAC/PAC.
> 
> *BAF is in the process of replacing both T-37Tweet and L-39ZA. They are looking for a better trainer options that can meet the training requirements for the future fighter procurement program. Over the last 4-5 years they have been planning and evaluating potential options in this regard. They have evaluated L-159 several times. However, it does not meet the air forces trainer requirement completely. They are now looking into much more advanced options like M-346, YAK-130, KAI T-50, BAE Hawk, Mig-AT, Hongdu L-15 etc.*
> 
> IF Mig-AT, Hawk, KAI T50 etc are the replacement in next 3-4 Years then what was the rush for F-7BGI which is 3 Gen compared. You still did not answer how are these Trainers (to be put to different role) better than JFT (And proposed JFT Twin Seat)
> 
> *If you read Air Chief's statement in London he mentioned that the Air force is looking forward to replace the trainers. He also mentioned that the future procurement shall concentrate more on quality and electronics rather than quantity. He also said that even if the price is high then he will go for quality sacrificing quantity. 8-16 of these aircraft shall fulfill the requirement.*
> 
> That is a bad news, this means BAF is looking into short legged platform. I can list numerous -VEs of these platform they still have limited role.
> 
> *I said it can replicate the performance of many 4th to 5th generation fighters. Please, before coming to a stupid conclusion read well and understand what is been written there. Yes, they surely can put some M-346 or YAK-130 in their LIFT role before they send their pilots flying EF-2000.*
> 
> What is your reason behind replicate the performance, clearly JFT performance characteristics exceeds Just take RD-93 should have thrust no more than 83 KN compare it to all that you listed stands superior the only that comes close is 78KN KAI T-50 however I explained it to you earlier *you are not getting AMRAAMs*. I would again refer you to JF-17 Thread to read understand and compare to the platforms Trainers as an Alternate Role. PS. Sitting in JFT is also gives you the feel of 4++Gen
> 
> *Air force Technology: The Avionica fly-by-wire flight control system is used to adjust the stability and controllability characteristics and flight safety systems to simulate a number of aircraft such as the MiG-29, Su-27, Su-30, F-15, F-16, F-18, Mirage 2000, Rafale, Typhoon and future fighters such as the F-35.*
> 
> Purpose to explain? Proceed to JFT Thread, I recommend Research before playing down on something.
> 
> *Yakovlev official website: The aircraft is equipped with complex fly-by-wire control system that functions as automatic flight control system, active flight safety system and provides in training stability and controllability characteristics change depending on the aircraft being simulated.*
> 
> Purpose to explain? Proceed to JFT Thread, I highly recommend Research before playing down on something.
> 
> *As an advanced training aircraft, the Yak-130 is able to replicate the characteristics of several 4+ generation fighters as well as the fifth-generation Sukhoi T-50.*
> 
> Look, It is a positive news whatever platform BAF chooses for a dual role or single role BUT You have to put JFT on merit plainly rejecting even after you have all the details infront of you is a bit naive. You pick wikipedia as your source so according to your wikipedia JFT come under this Category:
> 
> Aircraft of comparable role to F-16 (google wikipedia F-16 you get the result below), configuration and era (your favorite wikipedia : now don't reject your favorite source)
> 
> Chengdu J-10
> Dassault Mirage 2000 (F-16 A/B Block-30 only)
> McDonnell Douglas F/A-18 Hornet
> Northrop F-20 Tigershark (F-16 A/B Block-10 only)
> JAS 39 Gripen
> JF-17 Thunder
> Dassault Rafale
> Mikoyan MiG-29
> Northrop YF-17
> 
> So In the end you do not have authentic source(s) you down play a Fighter Jet just because you do not like it without researching comparing it with Trainer Platforms which can have limited role. Mate you need ground classes.



First of all you did not answer my question that is: What is JFT stands for? 

Secondly, if your JFT is JF-17 then I must say according to you your JF-17 is not a fighter aircraft, its a trainer. I did not know JF-17 as a trainer. So, I did not compare your JFT with LIFTs. 

Thirdly, if you search L-39 in wiki you will see the comparable aircraft there are:

Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era
*Aermacchi MB-339
*AIDC AT-3
ATG Javelin
*BAe Hawk
*CASA 101
Dassault/Dornier Alpha Jet
FMA IA 63 Pampa
Hongdu JL-8
IAR 99
*Kawasaki T-4
*PZL I-22 Iryda
Soko G-2 Galeb
Soko G-4 Super Galeb

and if you search Alpha jet and see its comparable aircrafts:

Aircraft of comparable role, configuration and era
Aermacchi S-211
Aero L-39 Albatros
*Aero L-59 Super Albatros
BAE Hawk
*CASA C-101
Kawasaki T-4
PZL I-22 Iryda
Soko G-4 Super Galeb
Soko J-22 Orao
*T-45 Goshawk
T-50 Golden Eagle
*IAR-99

You honestly believe they are comparable????

We are not getting AAMRAM as if Pakistan is the seller. :LOL:.

Who at what point said that the trainers evaluated for procurement within the next 3-4 years. You have to wait at least 8-10 years for that. Coz, the aircraft they are intended to replicate performance shall come after 10-15 years. So, to stop this 10-15 years gap the F-7BGI are procured. And again, do you honestly like to compare your JFT with trainers!!!! :WOW: And, I was banned for comparing it with F-16 Block 15. 

WOW... according to you, JFT is facing trouble keeping its designation as a fighter and now you want me to conduct research to compare it with Lead-In-Fighter-Trainers. You are wrong. JF-17 is a very good fighter bomber/close air support aircraft. In fact in that role it is one of my favorites.


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## Zabaniyah

There's no evidence of a two-seater trainer version of the JF-17 anytime soon

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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> It's still rather expensive for a trainer. ~$25 million each and still under development. The BAE Hawk costs even more.
> 
> *I ask you to provide some source links for members to see.* Not mere hearsay. This isn't exactly the place for that.



Dont have a net link for that. The source is a very senior BAF officer. Can't disclose more than that in this regard. Thanks.


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## Luftwaffe

*Major Shaheb; First of all you did not answer my question that is: What is JFT stands for? *

JFT is Joint Fighter-17 OR JF-17 (tsk tsk if you did not know JFT then you have some major research to do regarding this Platform)

*Secondly, if your JFT is JF-17 then I must say according to you your JF-17 is not a fighter aircraft, its a trainer. I did not know JF-17 as a trainer. So, I did not compare your JFT with LIFTs. *

See you do not wanted to understand you are just like a tape recorder, do some research go to JF-17 Thread. Read my post, You compared or considered those Trainers you mentioned to be better platform then JFT did you not? Yes you did, So according to me I tried to make you remember that JFT is a Fighter Jet not a Trainer to be compared to those platform. I Specifically mentioned Dual Seat/Twin Set JFT is strongly proposed which can have dual role that also includes Advance Trainer. 

*Thirdly, if you search L-39 in wiki you will see the comparable aircraft there are:*

See you do not Research, you rate Trainers with limited role and shot legged to a major multirole platform that have potential and capabilities far exceeding the mentioned Trainers. (Remember some of these platforms have American components)

I would refer you again to your favorite source wikipedia google F-16 on wikipedia and see comparable platforms JFT is there not in the list of Trainers thus proves from your favorite source that JFT is far from a basic plane that you underrate and compare it to Trainer platforms hilariously when you can see/read the Specs of those Trainer platform are well behind that of JFT, remember I have you one of the examples RD-93 83kN-84.5kN.

*We are not getting AAMRAM as if Pakistan is the seller. :LOL:.*

No you will not get it, Jordan is an old ally of US so is Egypt both are ill equip with BVR specially Egypt has 240+ F-16s without BVR AMAAMs, what makes you think one of the largest operator of F-16 toothless compared BAF armed by US with AMRAAMs in your dreams. Jordan RJAF 60 F-16s 175 AMRAAMs that is approx 2 AMRAAMs per F-16 extremely limited, they are not authorized-cannot integrate equip their F-16s with MBDA MICA.

*Who at what point said that the trainers evaluated for procurement within the next 3-4 years. You have to wait at least 8-10 years for that. *

Exactly & Really 8-10 Years, thus Trainer platforms would be severely retarded to operate as dual role other than Trainers as it would be highly critical environment where 4.5+/5th Gen Aircrafts would be operating. No never compare feels good from inside Trainers to True optimized for 4/4.5/5 Gen Truly multirole Platforms. 

*WOW... according to you, JFT is facing trouble keeping its designation as a fighter and now you want me to conduct research to compare it with Lead-In-Fighter-Trainers. You are wrong. JF-17 is a very good fighter bomber/close air support aircraft. In fact in that role it is one of my favorites.*

Solved, you need to do Research, Ref JF-17 Threads. 

*You are wrong. JF-17 is a very good fighter bomber/close air support aircraft. In fact in that role it is one of my favorites.*

It is/would be more than that with A2A/A2G/Antiship and vice versa Roles. So then where does the conflict arise when you term it is not good for BAF (We know in the end it would be BAF decision to pick something up you and I are no one) however the most likely platform comes from russians, Chinese. 

There are conflicting posts coming out from your side. First it was about Fighters then it went to Trainers to be used as dual role and then it went something else. I would suggest you recall all your previous 3 Posts what you said squeeze the summary and repost what exactly you want to tell.

*Zabaniya..There's no evidence of a two-seater trainer version of the JF-17 anytime soon*

There is no evidence of JFT diamond shape semi stealth as well but Yes two Seater Variant has strong possibility as a platform commonality then procuring L-15 in many numbers JFT would be most likely contender with limited L-15 procurement numbers.

You Post 426 on this thread (conflict with your earlier post you love JFT in a Role)
*Again JF-17!! Whats wrong with you guys. BD had already ordered F-7BGI and in the process of ordering 20-32 F-16 or mig-29smt or su-30 or jas-39. There is no scope of JF-17 here. JF-17 is history for BAF. forget it. *

Now look what is your with you (your post) enlighten all of us and how do you compare BGI to JFT reminds me of your friend storm who compares mig-21 to newest platform like JFT. 
For the second time google Thailand-Sweden Deal and how much is has/is Thailand spending on a package offered 12 Gripen C/D and 2 AWE&C the price tag is beyond what BAF can afford. 

No doubt Gripen is a tested proven platform the question is US Engine-Components-Weapons (AMRAAMs) can you acquire 200 AMRAAMs from US to be seen, Are there any possibilities of sanctions remains to be seen, hindustani lobby pressure US-Sweden very strong. BAF will see all dimensions before proceeding so there is no assured conformity on F-16-Gripen in lead contenders but I can safely say russians and Chinese are still strong contenders here.


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## Luftwaffe

Major Shaheb said:


> Egypt had recently signed contract with Ukraine to upgrade all their Mig-21 and F-7 with better avionics and weapons systems to keep them in service till 2018. Egypt is also the 4th largest F-16 operator in the world with at the present 220 aircraft. They had also signed contract with USA in 2010 to deliver them with 20 F-16 Block 50/52. They also operate 20 Mirage 2000. And you want us to believe Egypt is negotiating to get JF-17!!!! Please, put some logic in it..
> 
> And yeah, almost all countries evaluated Mig-29 and F-16 but see how many of them operates these fighters.



Nothing materialize out of the said mig-21 upgrades, F-7 were never up for upgrades, no 2018 time line ever given. Please stop relying on wikipedia. 240 F-16s to be precise plus 20 F-16 Block 52 in all 260 F-16s without BVR AMRAAMs.

Yes Egypt is strongly interested and did negotiate regarding JF-17/FC-1 which has a lot of potential Block II would be the one most likely. Egypt has as many as 180 fleet in condition to be replaced. You can dig threads for JFT what it offers with it to Customers.


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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> *Major Shaheb; First of all you did not answer my question that is: What is JFT stands for? *
> 
> JFT is Joint Fighter-17 OR JF-17 (tsk tsk if you did not know JFT then you have some major research to do regarding this Platform)
> 
> *Secondly, if your JFT is JF-17 then I must say according to you your JF-17 is not a fighter aircraft, its a trainer. I did not know JF-17 as a trainer. So, I did not compare your JFT with LIFTs. *
> 
> See you do not wanted to understand you are just like a tape recorder, do some research go to JF-17 Thread. Read my post, You compared or considered those Trainers you mentioned to be better platform then JFT did you not? Yes you did, So according to me I tried to make you remember that JFT is a Fighter Jet not a Trainer to be compared to those platform. I Specifically mentioned Dual Seat/Twin Set JFT is strongly proposed which can have dual role that also includes Advance Trainer.
> 
> *Thirdly, if you search L-39 in wiki you will see the comparable aircraft there are:*
> 
> See you do not Research, you rate Trainers with limited role and shot legged to a major multirole platform that have potential and capabilities far exceeding the mentioned Trainers. (Remember some of these platforms have American components)
> 
> I would refer you again to your favorite source wikipedia google F-16 on wikipedia and see comparable platforms JFT is there not in the list of Trainers thus proves from your favorite source that JFT is far from a basic plane that you underrate and compare it to Trainer platforms hilariously when you can see/read the Specs of those Trainer platform are well behind that of JFT, remember I have you one of the examples RD-93 83kN-84.5kN.
> 
> *We are not getting AAMRAM as if Pakistan is the seller. :LOL:.*
> 
> No you will not get it, Jordan is an old ally of US so is Egypt both are ill equip with BVR specially Egypt has 240+ F-16s without BVR AMAAMs, what makes you think one of the largest operator of F-16 toothless compared BAF armed by US with AMRAAMs in your dreams. Jordan RJAF 60 F-16s 175 AMRAAMs that is approx 2 AMRAAMs per F-16 extremely limited, they are not authorized-cannot integrate equip their F-16s with MBDA MICA.
> 
> *Who at what point said that the trainers evaluated for procurement within the next 3-4 years. You have to wait at least 8-10 years for that. *
> 
> Exactly & Really 8-10 Years, thus Trainer platforms would be severely retarded to operate as dual role other than Trainers as it would be highly critical environment where 4.5+/5th Gen Aircrafts would be operating. No never compare feels good from inside Trainers to True optimized for 4/4.5/5 Gen Truly multirole Platforms.
> 
> *WOW... according to you, JFT is facing trouble keeping its designation as a fighter and now you want me to conduct research to compare it with Lead-In-Fighter-Trainers. You are wrong. JF-17 is a very good fighter bomber/close air support aircraft. In fact in that role it is one of my favorites.*
> 
> Solved, you need to do Research, Ref JF-17 Threads.
> 
> *You are wrong. JF-17 is a very good fighter bomber/close air support aircraft. In fact in that role it is one of my favorites.*
> 
> It is/would be more than that with A2A/A2G/Antiship and vice versa Roles. So then where does the conflict arise when you term it is not good for BAF (We know in the end it would be BAF decision to pick something up you and I are no one) however the most likely platform comes from russians, Chinese.
> 
> There are conflicting posts coming out from your side. First it was about Fighters then it went to Trainers to be used as dual role and then it went something else. I would suggest you recall all your previous 3 Posts what you said squeeze the summary and repost what exactly you want to tell.
> 
> *Zabaniya..There's no evidence of a two-seater trainer version of the JF-17 anytime soon*
> 
> There is no evidence of JFT diamond shape semi stealth as well but Yes two Seater Variant has strong possibility as a platform commonality then procuring L-15 in many numbers JFT would be most likely contender with limited L-15 procurement numbers.
> 
> You Post 426 on this thread (conflict with your earlier post you love JFT in a Role)
> *Again JF-17!! Whats wrong with you guys. BD had already ordered F-7BGI and in the process of ordering 20-32 F-16 or mig-29smt or su-30 or jas-39. There is no scope of JF-17 here. JF-17 is history for BAF. forget it. *
> 
> Now look what is your with you (your post) enlighten all of us and how do you compare BGI to JFT reminds me of your friend storm who compares mig-21 to newest platform like JFT.
> For the second time google Thailand-Sweden Deal and how much is has/is Thailand spending on a package offered 12 Gripen C/D and 2 AWE&C the price tag is beyond what BAF can afford.
> 
> No doubt Gripen is a tested proven platform the question is US Engine-Components-Weapons (AMRAAMs) can you acquire 200 AMRAAMs from US to be seen, Are there any possibilities of sanctions remains to be seen, hindustani lobby pressure US-Sweden very strong. BAF will see all dimensions before proceeding so there is no assured conformity on F-16-Gripen in lead contenders but I can safely say russians and Chinese are still strong contenders here.



OK. Your JFT is better than any trainer, 4th, 5th and future 6th gen fighters. Happy now.


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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> Nothing materialize out of the said mig-21 upgrades, F-7 were never up for upgrades, no 2018 time line ever given. Please stop relying on wikipedia. 240 F-16s to be precise plus 20 F-16 Block 52 in all 260 F-16s without BVR AMRAAMs.
> 
> Yes Egypt is strongly interested and did negotiate regarding JF-17/FC-1 which has a lot of potential Block II would be the one most likely. Egypt has as many as 180 fleet in condition to be replaced. You can dig threads for JFT what it offers with it to Customers.



Oh yes!! right!! All the air forces in the world wants to replace their 3rd & 4th generation fighters with JF-17 which if they aquire they will have an edge over F-22, PAKFA and J-20. Happy!! 

Manage some orders for JF-17 first. How many air forces operates JF-17? The following countries do operate JF-17:

1. Pakistan
2. Pakistan
3. Pakistan
4. Pakistan
5. Pakistan
6. Pakistan
7. Pakistan
8. Pakistan
9. Pakistan
10. Pakistan
11. Pakistan
12. Pakistan
13. Pakistan
14. Pakistan
15. Pakistan
16. Pakistan
17. Pakistan
18. Pakistan
19. Pakistan
20. Pakistan

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## farhan_9909

Zabaniya said:


> There's no evidence of a two-seater trainer version of the JF-17 anytime soon



development is started long ago.

as per Munir we may see JFT twin seater in 2012
all the funding for twin seater is by pak alone.


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## farhan_9909

Major Shaheb said:


> Oh yes!! right!! All the air forces in the world wants to replace their 3rd & 4th generation fighters with JF-17 which if they aquire they will have an edge over F-22, PAKFA and J-20. Happy!!
> 
> Manage some orders for JF-17 first. How many air forces operates JF-17? The following countries do operate JF-17:
> 
> 1. Pakistan
> 2. Pakistan
> 3. Pakistan
> 4. Pakistan
> 5. Pakistan
> 6. Pakistan
> 7. Pakistan
> 8. Pakistan
> 9. Pakistan
> 10. Pakistan
> 11. Pakistan
> 12. Pakistan
> 13. Pakistan
> 14. Pakistan
> 15. Pakistan
> 16. Pakistan
> 17. Pakistan
> 18. Pakistan
> 19. Pakistan
> 20. Pakistan



JFT was inducted only a couple of years back

best fighters like rafale and Su 35 are only operated by the manufacturer
bt it doesnt mean they are nt good

even let suppose if only pak operates the JFT.than our order is very huge and we will go for atleast 250 of them
when the total development took only 500millions

so even 250 are huge numbers.and china in future.block II or III.they will also induct atleast 200-300 of them.so from china and pak the JFT numbers will go as up as 500 atleast.

now come egypt and azerbaijaan in the scene.
Egypt wants TOT and local assembly so less than 100 is nt possible
azerbaijaan wants 2 squardens
so these two countries are almost confirmed though JFT need to mature


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## farhan_9909

JFT(JFT II as JFT I production will stop within few months) gives you

BVR capability with Sd-10A/B
SEAD capability with Mar-1
Anti ship capability C-802/803
Is as manouverible as F-16((watch JFT airshow performance videos)
HMD
latest avionics
KLj-7v2(improved Radar) or AESA for block II
IRST in future
WMD-7 targetting pod
And KG-300G jammers pod
Cruise missile launch capability with Raa'd

1.8mach speed
3400km range
4ton payload capacity

..can be customized on customer request.

For 20millions
can be inducted in large numbers despite low budget
and bangladesh can easily afford 60-80 JFT in this decade..bt if they chose F-16(hardly nt possible) or mig-29.they wont induct more than 2-3 squardens


Now its upto Bangladesh.

though plz stop discussing JFT here

JFT has a very bright future
as we have already got egypt/azerbaijaan..they alone will buy JFT in 100 plus numbers


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## scholseys

I do agree Bangladesh should go after JF17, but it will never happen with the BAL government in power. They will only procure hardwares that will fill in the politician's pocket.


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## Zabaniyah

^
MIG-29 case arguments on Sunday | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com
UNBconnect... - All 6 accused in Mig-29 corruption case acquitted

The JF-17 is a good plane. But BAF seems to want something more. Also, Myanmar is a candidate for the JF-17. So, they can acquire it easily and neither the Pakistanis or the Chinese would have any second thoughts about selling it to them.



> The JF-17 Thunder is said to be the main attractive aircraft for the future of the air forces with different high-med tech packages available. Thirteen countries have so far expressed interest in purchasing the JF-17 aircraft are Azerbaijan, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Egypt, Iran, Lebanon, Malaysia, Morocco, Nigeria, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Sudan.


Pakistan Air Force totals eight JF-17 Thunder aircrafts | Pakistan Defence

Theoretically, we should maintain a competitive advantage over them. Not saying we shouldn't buy it. It is a good plane for CAS operations. But for multi-role and air-superiority? Needs a bit more punch since it is a small country and a small air force. 

That is, given that Bangladesh has sufficient financial resources.

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## Major Shaheb

Whats the status of our MBT-2000?


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## Luftwaffe

Major Shaheb said:


> Oh yes!! right!! All the air forces in the world wants to replace their 3rd & 4th generation fighters with JF-17 which if they aquire they will have an edge over F-22, PAKFA and J-20. Happy!!
> 
> Manage some orders for JF-17 first. How many air forces operates JF-17? The following countries do operate JF-17



Your senseless, recall all your posts non of the member understands what is it you want to really explain your posts are flying here and there without constructive argument to support.

Have some common sense my replies and arguments are to your senseless posts. Never have I said BAF should pick JFT, I have maintained position to judge the platform by its positives/negative so far you have come up with no real -ves about JFT but keep on looping and bashing a platform just because you dislike it for BAF. You absolutely have no insider information. BAF will choose that it considers best reality is more Mig-29s or possibly SU-30 as a high and A Chinese platform as a low is coming BAF's way. I could explain more but it is useless to argue with a non neutral commentator.


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## Major Shaheb

Luftwaffe said:


> Your senseless, recall all your posts non of the member understands what is it you want to really explain your posts are flying here and there without constructive argument to support.
> 
> Have some common sense my replies and arguments are to your senseless posts. Never have I said BAF should pick JFT, I have maintained position to judge the platform by its positives/negative so far you have come up with no real -ves about JFT but keep on looping and bashing a platform just because you dislike it for BAF. You absolutely have no insider information. BAF will choose that it considers best reality is more Mig-29s or possibly SU-30 as a high and A Chinese platform as a low is coming BAF's way. I could explain more but it is useless to argue with a non neutral commentator.



Look, I do not want to argue with you on the same matter that I have been saying the last 35 pages. I have given you some hardcore evidence, sightings from CAC brochure and detailed information of every single instrument on JF-17 which China provide other nations when they propose JF-17 and even then you guys would not agree on that. Then, whats the logic of this arguments. You have showed me some youtube video and asking me to read the brochure again. Whats the point man. If you dont want to believe the CAC proposal to other nations then its your problem. Why are you pulling me into this?


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## TopCat

Major Shaheb said:


> Look, I do not want to argue with you on the same matter that I have been saying the last 35 pages. I have given you some hardcore evidence, sightings from CAC brochure and detailed information of every single instrument on JF-17 which China provide other nations when they propose JF-17 and even then you guys would not agree on that. Then, whats the logic of this arguments. You have showed me some youtube video and asking me to read the brochure again. Whats the point man. If you dont want to believe the CAC proposal to other nations then its your problem. Why are you pulling me into this?


 
Major Saheb,
How reliable is your source who mentioned BAF is considering to induct both SU-30 and F-16. If F-16 which block are they going after. Do you know any earliest time when the actual order will be placed. I am not thinking of 2019 and onwards but is there any immediate placement of orders?


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## KRAIT

I saw the detailed analysis of JF-17 by its designer, who also designed J-10 and J-20 (available on youtube). You will notice the plane is among best buy for $15-20 million dollars and offers more ( 4 generation). Also, pakistan has already raised 2 squadrons pf JF-17(hope i am right) and might start testing Block II version in mid of 2012. I personally think that this plane is available for export as they have set up efficientproduction line to meet domestic and export requirement.


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## Zabaniyah

Since BAF wants glass cockpit, I believe the F-16s (if chosen) would likely be Block 52+. The block 60 would even be better 







Block 60 has the same cockpit, just that it comes with an AESA radar. 
Advanced F-16 Block 50/52/60


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## kobiraaz

i want to fly a fighter


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## Avisheik

Faarhan said:


> i want to fly a fighter



You studying in medical right?? They wont let you. You are too precious for the country


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## bd_4_ever

Farhaan studying medical? Cant you get into Army Medical Corp from outside? Enlighten me please!


Cheers!!!


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## Avisheik

bd_4_ever said:


> Farhaan studying medical? Cant you get into Army Medical Corp from outside? Enlighten me please!
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!



Yea he can get into army medical corp, but they will never make him a fighter pilot or will heavily discourage him.


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## Major Shaheb

Faarhan said:


> i want to fly a fighter



No problem!! If you have $30,000 and visa then you can enjoy flying a Mig-29UB of the Privately owned company called Incredible Adventures:

Book of Dreams 2012


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## scholseys

Zabaniya said:


> Since BAF wants glass cockpit, I believe the F-16s (if chosen) would likely be Block 52+. The block 60 would even be better
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Block 60 has the same cockpit, just that it comes with an AESA radar.
> Advanced F-16 Block 50/52/60



This is some dope ****.


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## bd_4_ever

Avisheik said:


> Yea he can get into army medical corp, but they will never make him a fighter pilot or will heavily discourage him.


 
Yes am aware of it. But fact is, if he can get into the army...that would be an achievement by itself.

My dad wanted me to try and join the Army or Air Force after my A-levels. I was very much into Armed Forces back then, but i guess fate had decided something better!


Cheers!!!


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## kobiraaz

well, i was selected in armed forces medical college, but chose to read in a government medical. Anyway, i will try to join army. I will have to go through ISSB and will be promoted to Major directly. But only problem is all my ex cadet friends discouraged me cause according to them Army medical officers are treated as second class officers inside Army.... If someone wants to lead with dignity then army doctor is not the way!!


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## bd_4_ever

Faarhan said:


> well, i was selected in armed forces medical college, but chose to read in a government medical. Anyway, i will try to join army. I will have to go through ISSB and will be promoted to Major directly. But only problem is all my ex cadet friends discouraged me cause according to them Army medical officers are treated as second class officers inside Army.... If someone wants to lead with dignity then army doctor is not the way!!



Well, confirm it first and then decide. I would say, you should try and get in the army.


Cheers!!!


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## Zabaniyah

Best job in the army is to be engineer.


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> Best job in the army is to be engineer.



You meant, safest job!!


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## Major Shaheb

Offtopic:

For all the Pakistani brothers who thinks that Bangladesh does not use any Pakistani made equipment:

This ATGM is made in Pakistan (in collaboration with China):


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## Major Shaheb

F-7 Carrying SD-10:

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Major Shaheb said:


> F-7 Carrying SD-10:



The jet doesnt look like a F-7... more pics....also i hope u know tht a F-7 radar cant support of SD-10.


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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> F-7 Carrying SD-10:



That's a J-8 carrying the PL-12 (export designation SD-10). 





http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/86736-j-7-j-8-sd-10-a.html

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------




Pakistani Nationalist said:


> The jet doesnt look like a F-7... more pics....also i hope u know tht a F-7 radar cant support of SD-10.



The F-7's nose is too small to support a BVR-capable radar. The MiG-21 Bison's nose however is large enough to support a BVR-capable radar. This is one of the key important differences between the F-7 and the MiG-21.


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## scholseys

how would these jets compare to the jets the indians have? do we have a shot?


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## Zabaniyah

^No.

45657567


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## scholseys

Zabaniya said:


> ^No.
> 
> 45657567



is it that bad?


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## Zabaniyah

aazidane said:


> is it that bad?



At moment, we are no match for them. 

But given that we do go for either 4 of the contenders, India would always be a few steps ahead of us. 

Matching an effective defensive deterrent against a large and a powerful opponent takes time, money and support. We simply didn't do that on pretty much every field of our country given the difficult beginnings. 

I'd focus on Myanmar first. A healthy number of F-16 E/Fs would be a good long term deterrent against a country like Myanmar. 

That is, given that they are willing to offer it to us.

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## scholseys

i thought our airforce was better than myanmar's



Zabaniya said:


> At moment, we are no match for them.
> 
> But given that we do go for either 4 of the contenders, India would always be a few steps ahead of us.
> 
> Matching an effective defensive deterrent against a large and a powerful opponent takes time, money and support. We simply didn't do that on pretty much every field of our country given the difficult beginnings.
> 
> I'd focus on Myanmar first. A healthy number of F-16 E/Fs would be a good long term deterrent against a country like Myanmar.
> 
> That is, given that they are willing to offer it to us.


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## integra

^^They are ahead in Air Defence..


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## scholseys

what about the army? can we kick some burmese commy *** in that department?


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## NeutralCitizen

The Fact is Myanmar that has a smaller economy and cut off by the west yet is stronger then bangladesh, Bangladesh can't even protect it's own citizens getting killed by India. even a democratic Myanmar will be stronger then bangladesh in the end.


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## fallstuff

India has bigger fish to fry, we are not the only one in the neighborhood. A decent number ( which I just can't recollect now) is simply enough. However, given BD terrain I would spend money on Air defense, Anti-armor defense including tanks. 

We don't want to match India, but don't want to end up as Nepal or Maldives.


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## Major Shaheb

Pakistani Nationalist said:


> The jet doesnt look like a F-7... more pics....also i hope u know tht a F-7 radar cant support of SD-10.



The radar that BD has been offered initially was KLJ-6F which had a detection range of 65KM. However, according to my source an upgraded variant of KLJ-6F (probably KLJ-6FA) is under evaluation which has a range of 75-80KM. If they take it then I would say F-7 radar is capable of firing SD-10 (if BAF choose to procure SD-10). It also has an option to procure PL-11 with a range of 60KM.


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## Major Shaheb

Zabaniya said:


> That's a J-8 carrying the PL-12 (export designation SD-10).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/86736-j-7-j-8-sd-10-a.html
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:18 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> The F-7's nose is too small to support a BVR-capable radar. The MiG-21 Bison's nose however is large enough to support a BVR-capable radar. This is one of the key important differences between the F-7 and the MiG-21.



F-7 nose is too small to support KLJ-7 radar but is big enough to support KLJ-6F and letter derivatives which are ranging from 65KM to 80KM. BVR means any target over 35KM distance.


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## Avisheik

aazidane said:


> what about the army? can we kick some burmese commy *** in that department?



Given the fact that they hire kids in the army, and use civilians as forced labour and human mine-sweepers, have a history of ethnic conflicts and uses vintage weapons. WE KICK A$$ IN THAT DEPARTMENT

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## bd_4_ever

Avisheik said:


> Given the fact that they hire kids in the army, and use civilians as forced labour and human mine-sweepers, have a history of ethnic conflicts and uses vintage weapons. WE KICK A$$ IN THAT DEPARTMENT



Shhh...dont say that buddy. Some of the BD members do not like us kicking their a$$!


Cheers!!!

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## Avisheik

bd_4_ever said:


> Shhh...dont say that buddy. Some of the BD members do not like us kicking their a$$!
> 
> 
> Cheers!!!



Damn those flase flaging burmese

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## Emmie

@MS--- BVR means engaging a target beyond 20 nmi or 37 kms (37.04 Kms to be precise). 35 kms is wrong.

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## Major Shaheb

Emmie said:


> @MS--- BVR means engaging a target beyond 20 nmi or 37 kms (37.04 Kms to be precise). 35 kms is wrong.



I thot 20nmi would make 35km. Thanks for the clarification.


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## scholseys

Our defense budget would have been higher if there was a man in charge, women are pointless in politics. Women lack the guts to be in politics especially ours, they end up being bitches, in our cases we are bound to India.

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## Major Shaheb

aazidane said:


> Our defense budget would have been higher if there was a man in charge, women are pointless in politics. Women lack the guts to be in politics especially ours, *they end up being bitches*, in our cases we are bound to India.



Be advised. You might get into trouble for this kind of words against ruling party leader. They have very good diplomatic relation with your current location (country) if they want to get you down.


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## scholseys

Major Shaheb said:


> Be advised. You might get into trouble for this kind of words against ruling party leader. They have very good diplomatic relation with your current location (country) if they want to get you down.



good job, they should. By that way ill land a very big post when BNP government comes. If i do get in trouble for expressing my freedom of speech, its going to be a very big media frenzy.


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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Be advised. You might get into trouble for this kind of words against ruling party leader. They have very good diplomatic relation with your current location (country) if they want to get you down.



Really? How?


----------



## M_Saint

I'm baffled by the fact that 38 pages worth of discussion but hardly anyone corroborates with the BD'S strategic need, I mean that I'm not trying to degrade anyone but how are we so way off of reality and asking to add more Migs or to buy new SU-30s? In such a small air territory and little budget, why are we advocating for more white elephants? IMO, BD needs STOL/VTOL Aircrafts that could take off of almost anywhere. Since JF-35 is non-gettable then we could ask PAK-CHN to work on changing the landing gear of F-7s for short take off, so it can even work in Manik Mia AVE. And emphasize should be given on eye on sky, land and sea in the forms of AWACS, surveillance aircraft etc. We also need to work on acquiring drones and predators. If PAK-CHN permits then focus on JF-17and FC-20s need to be put as mid and higher ends one but both also need to be customized according to BD's logical need. Finally, all these could be acquired by $1.5 B within 5 yrs.


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## Major Shaheb

M_Saint said:


> I'm baffled by the fact that 38 pages worth of discussion but hardly anyone corroborates with the BD'S strategic need, I mean that I'm not trying to degrade anyone but how are we so way off of reality and asking to add more Migs or to buy new SU-30s? In such a small air territory and little budget, why are we advocating for more white elephants? IMO, *BD needs STOL/VTOL Aircrafts that could take off of almost anywhere*. Since JF-35 is non-gettable then we could ask PAK-CHN to work on changing the landing gear of F-7s for short take off, so it can even work in Manik Mia AVE. *And emphasize should be given on eye on sky, land and sea in the forms of AWACS, surveillance aircraft etc*. We also need to work on *acquiring drones and predators*. *If PAK-CHN permits then focus on JF-17and FC-20s need to be put as mid and higher ends one but both also need to be customized according to BD's logical need. Finally, all these could be acquired by $1.5 B within 5 yrs.*




You are forgetting one fact that although BD has a small territory but within that small territory it has 15+ operational runways with airports. Even after that do you really need VTOL or STOL. I dont think so. 

We have small budget, so we need to buy the most advanced aircraft, and equipment available. We do not need 100 JF-17 or FC-20. Rather we need 32-48 4+ or 4++ generation fighter aircraft like the Su-30 or JAS-39. I think we should go for twin engine aircraft for better performance and safety. Three to four multi-role squadron is good enough I think. 

We should also maintain one manufacturer for fighter aircraft to cut operational cost. It would be even nicer if we could move into a network based force.

Do you have any idea how much more it will cost to modify f-7 to do STOL. Its not just landing gear my friend, it also need a new engine as F-7 has a one of the fastest landing speed and distance in the world. You probably would also require an arresting hook and mechanism on ground to stop the aircraft and that my friend is epic. With the cost required for that kind of modification, you can buy a full squadron of 2nd hand f-16 or Mig-29 i guess. And what good will it bring converting a stop-gap 3rd gen fighter when BAF considering them for CAS role.

---------- Post added at 08:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 PM ----------




Zabaniya said:


> Really? How?



Thanks for understanding the joke....


----------



## Imran Khan

mr.major 32 to 48 4th+++ cost 5bn$ and operational cost will be some few hundred millions $ every year . so how can an air force with small budget afford it ? i think current low price low operational cost fighters are best . your thoughts and dreams as patriotic Bangladeshi are well and i respect them but reality is there is no threat and there is no money for spent on fighters . best way is keep good relations with both neighbors and enjoy development rather then thinking abut world top expensive jets its my thoughts abut BD feel free to disagree .


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## scholseys

we need some missile defense systems to guarantee our national security, hope china makes them as clearly the ruskies wont sell them to us.

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## kobiraaz

aazidane said:


> we need some missile defense systems to guarantee our national security, hope china makes them as clearly the ruskies wont sell them to us.


 
India will not allow this... For this you have to get rid of Hasina to inhibit india's influence on our decision makers.. Even newdelhi panicked when c-802 was introduced in the navy!


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## scholseys

There is no point getting all these toys, we need to get some air defense systems to protect our sovereignty.


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## Major Shaheb

Faarhan said:


> India will not allow this... For this you have to get rid of Hasina to inhibit india's influence on our decision makers.. Even newdelhi panicked when c-802 was introduced in the navy!


 
India panicked for two reasons mainly. 

1. Govt. felt reluctant to inform them about the test fire.
2. Its range of 180+ Km is good enough to hit some important potential targets well within Indian boundary. 

And it was C-802A.


----------



## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> mr.major 32 to 48 4th+++ cost 5bn$ and operational cost will be some few hundred millions $ every year . so how can an air force with small budget afford it ? i think current low price low operational cost fighters are best . your thoughts and dreams as patriotic Bangladeshi are well and i respect them but reality is there is no threat and there is no money for spent on fighters . best way is keep good relations with both neighbors and enjoy development rather then thinking abut world top expensive jets its my thoughts abut BD feel free to disagree .



Thank you for sharing your views Mr. Khan. I agree that if the cost is $5bln then I am dreaming. However, I was talking about 4+gen (for example: Mig-29SMT, JAS-39, F-16 C/D, Su-27SK etc.) and 4++ gen (for example: F-16 E/F, Su-30MK*, JAS-39NG, Mig-29MRCA etc.) but not 4+++ gen (for example: Mig-35, Su-35BM, F-15SE, EF-2000 etc.). According to recent pricing, the cost per aircraft comes something like following:

For 32 unit: (in 2011 Bln $)

Mig 29SMT : 1.12
Mig-29MRCA : 1.24
Su-30MK : 1.35
Su-30MK* : 1.76
F-16CD (blk 40/42) : 2.4
F-16CD (Blk 50/52) : 4.1
JAS-39 : 1.6
JAS-39NG : 2.3

Yes, if ordered 48 aircraft then for the non Russian aircraft it will cost $ 3.4 to 6.2 bln. If the govt plans to strict to Russian or with JAS-39C/D then they can manage that within budget.


----------



## Imran Khan

Major Shaheb said:


> Thank you for sharing your views Mr. Khan. I agree that if the cost is $5bln then I am dreaming. However, I was talking about 4+gen (for example: Mig-29SMT, JAS-39, F-16 C/D, Su-27SK etc.) and 4++ gen (for example: F-16 E/F, Su-30MK*, JAS-39NG, Mig-29MRCA etc.) but not 4+++ gen (for example: Mig-35, Su-35BM, F-15SE, EF-2000 etc.). According to recent pricing, the cost per aircraft comes something like following:
> 
> For 32 unit: (in 2011 Bln $)
> 
> Mig 29SMT : 1.12
> Mig-29MRCA : 1.24
> Su-30MK : 1.35
> Su-30MK* : 1.76
> F-16CD (blk 40/42) : 2.4
> F-16CD (Blk 50/52) : 4.1
> JAS-39 : 1.6
> JAS-39NG : 2.3
> 
> Yes, if ordered 48 aircraft then for the non Russian aircraft it will cost $ 3.4 to 6.2 bln. If the govt plans to strict to Russian or with JAS-39C/D then they can manage that within budget.



in that case i agree but still 4++ cost allot of money not only fighter there is huge cache of weapons supports spares and base for new fighter also ground equipment which lead it to near 5bn still its better if mig-29smt su-27 or jas gripen in small numbers like 18-24 is possible .and personally i don't believe in these unit costs because they are not include any thing .and yes if they go to 4+ or 4++ they should take out current whole fleet from service just get 3 types . first primary trainer 2nd jet trainer like K-8 L-15 or howks or any other and then those 4+ -4++ fighter sqns only . it will be healthy and easy to maintain but if they keep these horses along with them cost of maintain the fleet will go beyond the budget .


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## Major Shaheb

A report published on ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS in 2011:


*Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder*

Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India&#8217;s modern combatants Su-30MKI, Mig-29S & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.

China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary&#8217;s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.

Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn&#8217;t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC. Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93&#8217;s &#8220;Combat thrust with afterburner&#8221; as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93&#8217;s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov&#8217;s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as &#8220;Take-off emergency mode&#8221;. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine&#8217;s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's &#8220;Combat thrust&#8221; claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one&#8217;s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.

The next Achilles heal is JF-17&#8217;s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17&#8217;s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.

So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter &#8211; 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan&#8217;s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India&#8217;s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s. In those circumstances, &#8220;Never again&#8221; was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7(a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT(Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don&#8217;t even trust the Chinese? This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about. This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won&#8217;t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it&#8217;s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.


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## Imran Khan

ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS BLOG is personal view of INDIAN blogger and this items discussed here 100s time nothing to do with this thread .simply edit your post and have a talk on BD needs and purchase .


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## Major Sam

WTF is with this Major Sahab ... u should be a PHD in trolling


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## scholseys

usama waqas said:


> WTF is with this Major Sahab ... u should be a PHD in trolling



Relax he is just quoting an article.


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## Avisheik

Faarhan said:


> India will not allow this... For this you have to get rid of Hasina to inhibit india's influence on our decision makers.. Even newdelhi panicked when c-802 was introduced in the navy!



Actually hasina buys more stuff for the military, in order to please them. Anyway the $800mil arms deal that may happen also includes SAMS


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## Lighting_Fighter

When are we getting the delivery of F-7s that was ordered?


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## M_Saint

Major Shaheb said:


> [/B]
> 
> You are forgetting one fact that although BD has a small territory but within that small territory it has 15+ operational runways with airports. Even after that do you really need VTOL or STOL. I dont think so.
> 
> We have small budget, so we need to buy the most advanced aircraft, and equipment available. We do not need 100 JF-17 or FC-20. Rather we need 32-48 4+ or 4++ generation fighter aircraft like the Su-30 or JAS-39. I think we should go for twin engine aircraft for better performance and safety. Three to four multi-role squadron is good enough I think.
> 
> We should also maintain one manufacturer for fighter aircraft to cut operational cost. It would be even nicer if we could move into a network based force.
> 
> Do you have any idea how much more it will cost to modify f-7 to do STOL. Its not just landing gear my friend, it also need a new engine as F-7 has a one of the fastest landing speed and distance in the world. You probably would also require an arresting hook and mechanism on ground to stop the aircraft and that my friend is epic. With the cost required for that kind of modification, you can buy a full squadron of 2nd hand f-16 or Mig-29 i guess. And what good will it bring converting a stop-gap 3rd gen fighter when BAF considering them for CAS role.



Major Shaheb, are you for real? Do U have slightest idea about the targets of enemy's first blitz in air war? All the 15+ runways could be made non-functional even by cruise or ballistic missile strikes then where do you fly from? And the cost of arresting hook + ground mechanism would be epic? What are U smoking, BRO? Ask Sub or Erikson engineers about the cost of JAS Grippen's short take off features and U would find out that they haven't charged extra for South Africa or Chez's one. I'VE specifically mentioned about F-7 because its manufacturer is known as global cheap star in producing industrial goods. So, Chinese would deliver even by the fraction of the cost of Swedish if the case is made viable. BTW, did you hear PAF's JF-17 taking off of motor way? Does it show that Chinese are capable? They had a project called F-7MF, which didn't see light because JF-17 took its focus away. With the larger nose cone, customized long range AESA + SAR for making it net centric, Thirst Vectored engine along with its short takes off ability of 48 of it wouldn't cost as much as 16 MIG-29MRCA or SU-30MK throughout the life, let along Grippen NG or F-Sola EF. And once research is done, project is initiated and parts are made; other F-7's in BAF's inventory could also be upgraded to a level of Bison or better. 

I exemplified F-7 because it was known as poor man F-Sola. As a point blank defence's AC, it's pretty good and with AWACS or net's support, it would take 5 times costlier AC than itself. Knowing budget constrain and being practical, I suggested for an AC with STOL/VTOL or short takes off feature because that would raise its survivality from the enemy's first few blitzes. All you have to camouflage it by few layers. Cost of Chinese RAM quoting or other stealthy ingredients would also be fraction of Rusky or Westerner's one. So, now do you find my rational or you think BD is super rich to go for F-22? BTW, why are you so allergic about JF-17? I'VE been following its evolution since 2005 and it has crossed all bumpy roads in such a tremendous pace to become a 4th Gen fighter, only astonishing would be suitable word to describe it. If F-7MF&#8217;s type is impossible then IMHO a customized JF-17 would be perfect for BAF's upper mid requirement.


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## Imran Khan

Lighting_Fighter said:


> When are we getting the delivery of F-7s that was ordered?



wait few months dear its no corolla


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## scholseys

Buying jets are a big waste of money, we need SAMs


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## DarkPrince

guys when we'r gonna make our own jetfighters


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## scholseys

DarkPrince said:


> guys when we'r gonna make our own jetfighters



The day Bangladesh wins the fifa world cup.

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## Imran Khan

DarkPrince said:


> guys when we'r gonna make our own jetfighters




after srilanka i think  you are talking abut making jet? ohhhh but dear its take some 40 years and still india can't induct its homemade jet engine and china use russian engines till last year .just look j-10 jf-17 LCA use tech of other countries .so in my view BD will make there own fighter in 2150 or so

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## scholseys

Imran Khan said:


> after srilanka i think  you are talking abut making jet? ohhhh but dear its take some 40 years and still india can't induct its homemade jet engine and china use russian engines till last year .just look j-10 jf-17 LCA use tech of other countries .so in my view BD will make there own fighter in 2150 or so



probably 3rd generation by 2150

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## Imran Khan

aazidane said:


> probably 3rd generation by 2150



no no fifth dear because world that time working on 12th gen++++++++++++ fighter jet . i use + as its favorite by MS

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## DarkPrince

come on... we should atleast try something

---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------

pak making them with the help of china
india taking russia's help
we should take USA's help then


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## Imran Khan

DarkPrince said:


> come on... we should atleast try something
> 
> ---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------
> 
> pak making them with the help of china
> india taking russia's help
> we should take USA's help then



don't every do this mistake if you go near USA its mean your game over


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## DarkPrince

Imran Khan said:


> don't every do this mistake if you go near USA its mean your game over



why not pak help us then
maybe give us some atomic bomb 2


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## Imran Khan

DarkPrince said:


> why not pak help us then
> maybe give us some atomic bomb 2


atomic bomb?   no no dear its more then we can afford . also hasina will shipment our nuke to india and they will make 100 bollywood films 1000000000000 news items and 1000000000000000000000000000000 articles on it . ask something else .any small missile like H-2 OR H-4 NASR without nuclear WH ?

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## DarkPrince

Imran Khan said:


> atomic bomb?   no no dear its more then we can afford . also hasina will shipment our nuke to india and they will make 100 bollywood films 1000000000000 news items and 1000000000000000000000000000000 articles on it . ask something else .any small missile like H-2 OR H-4 NASR without nuclear WH ?



ya point there
i dont like her gov. anyway


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## scholseys

I dont know if darkprice is serious or he is trolling Rofl


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## DarkPrince

aazidane said:


> I dont know if darkprice is serious or he is trolling Rofl



hahaahahhaha lolz

n its darkprince no price


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## scholseys

sorry bro, my blackberry typing sucks


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## kobiraaz

China started the work to set up a workshop which will start fixing minor problems of aircrafts soon. We will start to design a indigenous training aircraft after 2020... This is the plan... I can assure you we will have a M-71 (motiur-71) by 2030.. With chinese help and parts though!

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## nomi007

DarkPrince said:


> why not pak help us then
> maybe give us some atomic bomb 2


we already checked libya and iran 
what they did with us when Libya transfer its nuclear devices to usa
if we can make atom bomb by our own self then why u cannot make it

---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------




DarkPrince said:


> guys when we'r gonna make our own jetfighters


world is replacing their old mig-21 with latest jets like f-16s and jf-17 thunder soon then why you are purchasing old f-7bgi which are same as f-7pg of Pakistan
it is better for u to buy our f-7p and f-7pg because we are now replacing them

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## nomi007

International Debut for the Pakistani Thunders - Defense-Update Newscast





its block-1
imagine block 2

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## DarkPrince

nomi007 said:


> we already checked libya and iran
> what they did with us when Libya transfer its nuclear devices to usa
> if we can make atom bomb by our own self then why u cannot make it
> 
> ---------- Post added at 01:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------



well said bro


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## Icewolf

nomi007 said:


> International Debut for the Pakistani Thunders - Defense-Update Newscast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> its block-1
> imagine block 2


 
block 2 will be more stealthy i hear on wikipedia. and will have diamond nose.


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## Major Shaheb

Imran Khan said:


> wait few months dear its no corolla



Thanks. Laughed a lot.


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## eastwatch

aazidane said:


> Buying jets are a big waste of money, we need SAMs



Yes, we need short, medium and long range SAMs. Only last year BAF has procured a few batteries of short range SAMs. When the country's vital assets are covered with many more short range SAMs, BAF will go after medium ones and then after the long range ones.

However, SAMs only are not enpough. We also need a strong airforce with at least 9 sq., including training crafts, of planes that can take the battle to the enemy land.

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## Major Shaheb

M_Saint said:


> Major Shaheb, are you for real? Do U have slightest idea about the targets of enemy's first blitz in air war? All the 15+ runways could be made non-functional even by cruise or ballistic missile strikes then where do you fly from? And the cost of arresting hook + ground mechanism would be epic? What are U smoking, BRO? Ask Sub or Erikson engineers about the cost of JAS Grippen's short take off features and U would find out that they haven't charged extra for South Africa or Chez's one. I'VE specifically mentioned about F-7 because its manufacturer is known as global cheap star in producing industrial goods. So, Chinese would deliver even by the fraction of the cost of Swedish if the case is made viable. BTW, did you hear PAF's JF-17 taking off of motor way? Does it show that Chinese are capable? They had a project called F-7MF, which didn't see light because JF-17 took its focus away. With the larger nose cone, customized long range AESA + SAR for making it net centric, Thirst Vectored engine along with its short takes off ability of 48 of it wouldn't cost as much as 16 MIG-29MRCA or SU-30MK throughout the life, let along Grippen NG or F-Sola EF. And once research is done, project is initiated and parts are made; other F-7's in BAF's inventory could also be upgraded to a level of Bison or better.
> 
> I exemplified F-7 because it was known as poor man F-Sola. As a point blank defence's AC, it's pretty good and with AWACS or net's support, it would take 5 times costlier AC than itself. Knowing budget constrain and being practical, I suggested for an AC with STOL/VTOL or short takes off feature because that would raise its survivality from the enemy's first few blitzes. All you have to camouflage it by few layers. Cost of Chinese RAM quoting or other stealthy ingredients would also be fraction of Rusky or Westerner's one. So, now do you find my rational or you think BD is super rich to go for F-22? BTW, why are you so allergic about JF-17? I'VE been following its evolution since 2005 and it has crossed all bumpy roads in such a tremendous pace to become a 4th Gen fighter, only astonishing would be suitable word to describe it. If F-7MFs type is impossible then IMHO a customized JF-17 would be perfect for BAF's upper mid requirement.


 
Ask our Pakistani brothers about the R&D cost of JF-17 in total. Then manage that kind of budget and setup an Aeronautical complex. Then sign MOU with China. Then do the research and develop the version and start selling it to BAF. Man you will be a multimillionaire. You may also propose the project to France, Germany, CHINA, India etc Coz what happen if their enemy fires cruise missiles and take away their runway then from where they will fly their planes.

This way you could also put your name in the history of world Aeronautics and be a legend.


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## Avisheik

aazidane said:


> Buying jets are a big waste of money, we need SAMs



The best form of defence is to attack. SAMS wont be able to attack our enemy teritory, But jets will.


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## M_Saint

Major Shaheb said:


> Ask our Pakistani brothers about the R&D cost of JF-17 in total. Then manage that kind of budget and setup an Aeronautical complex. Then sign MOU with China. Then do the research and develop the version and start selling it to BAF. Man you will be a multimillionaire. You may also propose the project to France, Germany, CHINA, India etc Coz what happen if their enemy fires cruise missiles and take away their runway then from where they will fly their planes.
> 
> This way you could also put your name in the history of world Aeronautics and be a legend.


Lol! Intellectual ability in third gear led you to come up with such jingoistic write up and also helped me to figure out the reason for JF-17's allergy. BTW, did you think for a blink of second that I didn't propose anything new and you could save time, energy on not demonstrating such stupidity? Do you even know the meaning of the customization of an already existing product and going some extra miles in tweaking on another? Do you need to go to France, Germany for that or need a skilled work force, tech know how and less than portion of researching on new one? And for your info! Not only Pakistani but also other peace loving people from any community or religion are my brothers. Finally it&#8217;s just wasting time on debating a hateful peps quake that has load of horse shyte in head.

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## M_Saint

Avisheik said:


> The best form of defence is to attack. SAMS wont be able to attack our enemy teritory, But jets will.


That is also true in relative term. If you propose attacking Indian force by F-7BG or junk MIG then it would be equal to commit suicide. So, it&#8217;s more feasible on when you have some sorts of parity against enemy.


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## Avisheik

M_Saint said:


> That is also true in relative term. If you propose attacking Indian force by F-7BG or junk MIG then it would be equal to commit suicide. So, it&#8217;s more feasible on when you have some sorts of parity against enemy.



I meant enemy in a general term. Such as maybe a rouge warship from another country, etc. 

Anyway, our planes can still bomb runways to prevent the enemy from flying


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## scholseys

Avisheik said:


> The best form of defence is to attack. SAMS wont be able to attack our enemy teritory, But jets will.



our aircraft inventory is no match for the indian inventory, we need sams and long range missiles. We should atleast be able to reach kolkata with our missiles. Kolkata in whole has a bigger economy than Bangladesh, so they have more to lose than us.


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## Major Sam

aazidane said:


> Relax he is just quoting an article.



But there should be some sense in that article , from the start of this thread he is trying to derail it.


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## scholseys

Air force gets FM-90 missiles | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com

bangladesh already has fm 90. how good are these bad boys? can these shoot down some indian hardware?


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## M_Saint

Major Shaheb said:


> Hey, you are talking about Mig-29!! bro!! Just a couple of BAF 8 Mig-29 is well capable enough to wipe your entire JUNK FIGHTER 17 fleet. You should be grateful to India that they did not attack you with their current fleet. Their Mig-29 fleet alone can wipe your entire fleet out of world face. You are lucky.


Are U a son of traitor MUA to act more Bharati than an original one? Do you know the story of Iraq and Yugoslavia's MIGS against allay and NATO attacks? If not then make yourself updated File:MiG-25 Foxbat.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. What about SYRIA losing over 28 Rusky made junks against ISRO's FS in 80s, Operation Mole Cricket 19 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Don't pretend to be an expert because you are not and don't advise me ever to be grateful toward Malauns because they aren't simply worthy of it. Do you even know that they had brokered BD's MIG deal to get the best of its kind ( MIG-29K) in a very minimal price? How about those junk's 2ndhand ness? RAWAMYS again looted millions of $$ by providing used junk-29S to BAF that couldn't be flown until Saifur Rahman paid over 12 Million to get parts during BNP's era. And after all, those junks couldn't be upgraded to SMT standard and make BVR capable without giving another structural up gradation. So, before trying to side kick, learn how sharp/reflexive is your opposition; especially considering a just losing battle against the same one.


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## Ammyy

aazidane said:


> our aircraft inventory is no match for the indian inventory, we need sams and long range missiles. We should atleast be able to reach kolkata with our missiles. Kolkata in whole has a bigger economy than Bangladesh, so they have more to lose than us.


 
no comments just LOL


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## Imran Khan

aazidane said:


> Air force gets FM-90 missiles | Bangladesh | bdnews24.com
> 
> bangladesh already has fm 90. how good are these bad boys? can these shoot down some indian hardware?



nope dear its short range and its copy of crotale missile even original crotale is not that much great for guarantee the total defense .its some 15 to 17km range and little good for sea based but land based should be HQ-9

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## scholseys

Imran Khan said:


> nope dear its short range and its copy of crotale missile even original crotale is not that much great for guarantee the total defense .its some 15 to 17km range and little good for sea based but land based should be HQ-9



but these are supposed to be stationed in dhaka to get down some indian jets...so these can't do that?


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## TopCat

Imran Khan said:


> nope dear its short range and its copy of crotale missile even original crotale is not that much great for guarantee the total defense .its some 15 to 17km range and little good for sea based but land based should be HQ-9



Imran Khan, you are getting Major Saheb banned by instigating him to abuse JF-17 .. LOL
I would take it my honor to let Pakistan to fly me one of your JF-17. I can drive car very fast...


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## Imran Khan

aazidane said:


> but these are supposed to be stationed in dhaka to get down some indian jets...so these can't do that?



its not work simple bro that it has range of 17km so it will never let any jet to enter in 17km range . now a day electronic warfare jamming tech and also anti radiation tech is on jets there is 50-50 chance may jet down or anti radiation hit the sam lolz. so batter long range massive sam systems also interceptor jets work with each other to save the assets from attacks . and yes you can not fight defensive war in air you must have to attack inside enemy territory and air bases other wise you are a cake in dish and they will sure eat you .sam system is well if its mixed and mass located many sites with different ranges and different tech . but no guarantee that sams work 100% .

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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> Imran Khan, you are getting Major Saheb banned by instigating him to abuse JF-17 .. LOL
> I would take it my honor to let Pakistan to fly me one of your JF-17. I can drive car very fast...



he is not worthy to discuss dear . we try our best to talk with him nicely on topic and not to insult him but he again and again come with same mess from his mind . so he got what he deserve to get long before .JF-17 is for us we make it for our doctrine and we are happy sadly only Muslims has itching problem with it may be they jealousy from this great achievement . same on Arabs many Arab forums use jf-17 a cockroach jet or chicken just to satisfy there ego and false proud .


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## scholseys

Imran Khan said:


> its not work simple bro that it has range of 17km so it will never let any jet to enter in 17km range . now a day electronic warfare jamming tech and also anti radiation tech is on jets there is 50-50 chance may jet down or anti radiation hit the sam lolz. so batter long range massive sam systems also interceptor jets work with each other to save the assets from attacks . and yes you can not fight defensive war in air you must have to attack inside enemy territory and air bases other wise you are a cake in dish and they will sure eat you .sam system is well if its mixed and mass located many sites with different ranges and different tech . but no guarantee that sams work 100% .



Thats it gotta get some missiles that can reach the distance of 200 kms an flatten out kolkata **calls hasina**


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## TopCat

aazidane said:


> Thats it gotta get some missiles that can reach the distance of 200 kms an flatten out kolkata **calls hasina**



We got c-802 and Calcutta is within range. Also Nora - B52 howeitzer can do much damage as well.. ;-)

---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------




Imran Khan said:


> he is not worthy to discuss dear . we try our best to talk with him nicely on topic and not to insult him but he again and again come with same mess from his mind . so he got what he deserve to get long before .JF-17 is for us we make it for our doctrine and we are happy sadly only Muslims has itching problem with it may be they jealousy from this great achievement . same on Arabs many Arab forums use jf-17 a cockroach jet or chicken just to satisfy there ego and false proud .



Thats probably because, you over inflated it.. LOL

Did i just abused???

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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> We got c-802 and Calcutta is within range. Also Nora - B52 howeitzer can do much damage as well.. ;-)
> 
> ---------- Post added at 08:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Thats probably you over inflated it.. LOL
> 
> Did i just abused???




whattttttttttttttttt ? you fire antiship missile on city ? no no no this is unfair

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## TopCat

aazidane said:


> but these are supposed to be stationed in dhaka to get down some indian jets...so these can't do that?



These are for point defence system. Also good to protect your armoured formation.
They are not for Area Defence System. We need some medium range to long range system with AESA radar to protect our major cities which are immuned to jamming.

---------- Post added at 08:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 PM ----------




Imran Khan said:


> whattttttttttttttttt ? you fire antiship missile on city ? no no no this is unfair


 
Nobody will stop you firing at anythng. Tiger killer guns can be use to kill birds as well.


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## Imran Khan

aazidane said:


> Thats it gotta get some missiles that can reach the distance of 200 kms an flatten out kolkata **calls hasina**



man that not gonna happen because they are not gonna sale you RIM-161 SM-3 -S200 S-400


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## scholseys

Imran Khan said:


> whattttttttttttttttt ? you fire antiship missile on city ? no no no this is unfair



Its the bangladeshi swag bro...this how we roll and you just mad broo


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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> Nobody will stop you firing at anythng. Tiger killer guns can be use to kill birds as well.


THATS gonna happen as india report pakistan edit harpoon missiles for land attack hahahahahahahahahaha and then there was nothing like this because we have tone of baburs abdali ghaznavi shaeen hatf ghuris raads and nasrs WTH we do with harpoon for land attack and we need then badly on ships and subs and naval jets


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## TopCat

Imran Khan said:


> man that not gonna happen because they are not gonna sale you RIM-161 SM-3 -S200 S-400



They will sell anything bro... Its just your misconception that Russian wont sell. They probably wont s-400 due its range more than 300 KM (not permitted under treaty) but up to s-300 they will.


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## scholseys

It seems all our military upgrades we get from Awami League, BNP never buys anything. After all this you'd expect BNP to buy all the hardwares.


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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> They will sell anything bro... Its just your misconception that Russian wont sell. They probably wont s-400 due its range more than 300 KM (not permitted under treaty) but up to s-300 they will.




but saudi buy it dear they will never sale it as its there best tech and after s-500 induct fully they will sold it to there allies but i don't see they are gonna sale it to second allies . range is not an issue here S-400 has three type of missiles and they can sold you less range 9M96 which is 40km range or simply 48N6 with 250km range rather then sale to you 40N6 with 400km range . issue is cost hell and sophisticated system can't be sold like this way .


----------



## scholseys

I dont think they'll sell us s 300 due to the defensive ties the ruskies have with the Indians. India is very close to russia. Our only hope is if the chinese can come up with something.


----------



## TopCat

Imran Khan said:


> but saudi buy it dear they will never sale it as its there best tech and after s-500 induct fully they will sold it to there allies but i don't see they are gonna sale it to second allies . range is not an issue here S-400 has three type of missiles and they can sold you less range 9M96 which is 40km range or simply 48N6 with 250km range rather then sale to you 40N6 with 400km range . issue is cost hell and sophisticated system can't be sold like this way .


 
Well cost is the major issue here for us. Its not russian willingness to sell or not. They even wanted to sell their latest plane to South Korea a major allie of USA.
Hasina ordered some 850 million dollar hardware from Russia. We yet to know what those are.
They also going to build 2000 MW nuclear power plant cost around 4 billion dollars. So, yes Russia will sell. Hasina will meet Putin after he takes power in March.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------




aazidane said:


> I dont think they'll sell us s 300 due to the defensive ties the ruskies have with the Indians. India is very close to russia. Our only hope is if the chinese can come up with something.



India will not oppose if Hasina is in power... 
Besides India is not willing to buy S300 which Russia wanted to sell.

---------- Post added at 09:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 PM ----------




aazidane said:


> It seems all our military upgrades we get from Awami League, BNP never buys anything. After all this you'd expect BNP to buy all the hardwares.



BNP always good at keeping fiscal management under control. Their main weapon is rhetoric.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## scholseys

can you please explain the rhetoric bit please?


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## Luftwaffe

People! This is damn F-7BGI Thread, open Bangladesh SAMs Systems thread separately.


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## Lighting_Fighter

ok, I ask precisely the date we are getting the delivery of F-7BGI? How many total are we getting?


and Mr. aazidane refrain from troll answer from my questions.


----------



## Imran Khan

Lighting_Fighter said:


> ok, I ask precisely the date we are getting the delivery of F-7BGI? How many total are we getting?
> 
> 
> and Mr. aazidane refrain from troll answer from my questions.



ok let me answer you honestly dear BD is getting 16 of them and chines never announce or give details like Americans there will be no novice when they come to BD . its way of china but if you were getting from USA you may know there serial numbers dates pictures all data . in this case you have no choice but to wait and see .


----------



## Lighting_Fighter

Imran Khan said:


> ok let me answer you honestly dear BD is getting 16 of them and chines never announce or give details like Americans there will be no novice when they come to BD . its way of china but if you were getting from USA you may know there serial numbers dates pictures all data . in this case you have no choice but to wait and see .



Thanks Imran

16 is good enough. With that some Grippen or Sukhoi will do good against Myanmar. For India, we may not now able to compete getting jets but I agree with others to get ballistic missiles. Now I don't have idea about the missiles. Some called Ballistic, some SAM or what ever


can anyone teach me how many types of these ballistic missiles are? Do they only differ by range or something else? Should we not try to manufacture them ourselves like iran or pakistan? I am pretty sure China will keep its word giving all the help to bd making balistic missiles. This is very important. We can lower more the aggression of india towards bangladesh by missiles than jets.


----------



## Luftwaffe

Imran Khan said:


> ok let me answer you honestly dear BD is getting 16 of them and chines never announce or give details like Americans there will be no novice when they come to BD . its way of china but if you were getting from USA you may know there serial numbers dates pictures all data . in this case you have no choice but to wait and see .



Lately US also does not adhere with dates to certain specific customers.


----------



## scholseys

Lightning, i havent trolled you just need to develop a sense of humor. I am trying to learn our capabilities thats all.


----------



## Imran Khan

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Thanks Imran
> 
> 16 is good enough. With that some Grippen or Sukhoi will do good against Myanmar. For India, we may not now able to compete getting jets but I agree with others to get ballistic missiles. Now I don't have idea about the missiles. Some called Ballistic, some SAM or what ever
> 
> 
> can anyone teach me how many types of these ballistic missiles are? Do they only differ by range or something else? Should we not try to manufacture them ourselves like iran or pakistan? I am pretty sure China will keep its word giving all the help to bd making balistic missiles. This is very important. We can lower more the aggression of india towards bangladesh by missiles than jets.



dear ballistic missiles are not some thing to easy got . its bring you hell along with them. first of all UN limited range of missiles is 150km . if you try to make more then this you will face sanctions murders blasts even they will never let you get them so easy . and a country like BD can't afford it to be come under fire of USA INDIA MIYANMAR JAPAN EU AUS EAST ASIA for missiles . so its not in picture . you also need rulers like zia ul haq bhutto to work on this project (both killed) you have to mass amount of $$ to waste on projects . missiles are different by types sizes warheads designs parameters and avionics . you need industrial base at least some good brains . you need missile scientists and you need aeronautical and technical engineers too .you need political weight that force world not to take action against you . i even dont see BD has space to test a 500km range missile dear . you also need very good air force to protect your missile sites missile storages missile building facilities . so better you buy 20 new jests rather then take your country in hell of missiles


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## TalkToMe:D

Imran Khan said:


> dear ballistic missiles are not some thing to easy got . its bring you hell along with them. first of all *UN limited range of missiles is 150km* . if you try to make more then this you will face sanctions murders blasts even they will never let you get them so easy . and a country like BD can't afford it to be come under fire of USA INDIA MIYANMAR JAPAN EU AUS EAST ASIA for missiles . so its not in picture . you also need rulers like zia ul haq bhutto to work on this project (both killed) you have to mass amount of $$ to waste on projects . missiles are different by types sizes warheads designs parameters and avionics . you need industrial base at least some good brains . you need missile scientists and you need aeronautical and technical engineers too .you need political weight that force world not to take action against you . i even dont see BD has space to test a 500km range missile dear . you also need very good air force to protect your missile sites missile storages missile building facilities . so better you buy 20 new jests rather then take your country in hell of missiles



can you please clarify, has it anything to do with MTCR or a new resolution by UN. It is a news to me.


----------



## Imran Khan

TalkToMe:D said:


> can you please clarify, has it anything to do with MTCR or a new resolution by UN. It is a news to me.



dear talktome use google
and type 
UN range limits of 150 km for ballistic missiles

then you will get some 2million pages select any one you like and click it


----------



## Lighting_Fighter

Imran Khan said:


> dear ballistic missiles are not some thing to easy got . its bring you hell along with them. first of all UN limited range of missiles is 150km . if you try to make more then this you will face sanctions murders blasts even they will never let you get them so easy . and a country like BD can't afford it to be come under fire of USA INDIA MIYANMAR JAPAN EU AUS EAST ASIA for missiles . so its not in picture . you also need rulers like zia ul haq bhutto to work on this project (both killed) you have to mass amount of $$ to waste on projects . missiles are different by types sizes warheads designs parameters and avionics . you need industrial base at least some good brains . you need missile scientists and you need aeronautical and technical engineers too .you need political weight that force world not to take action against you . i even dont see BD has space to test a 500km range missile dear . you also need very good air force to protect your missile sites missile storages missile building facilities . so better you buy 20 new jests rather then take your country in hell of missiles



I am guessing only Turkey, Iran and Pakistan have these "ballistic missiles", right?


----------



## TalkToMe:D

Imran Khan said:


> dear talktome use google
> and type
> UN range limits of 150 km for ballistic missiles
> 
> then you will get some 2million pages select any one you like and click it



Well I was expecting a direct answer, you could have done it other wise or you are not of that type, your way of answering defeats the purpose of getting into a discussion, the web is a store house of knowledge but you are just curious to know as much is required, I wasted my effort upon you, sorry


----------



## Imran Khan

Lighting_Fighter said:


> I am guessing only Turkey, Iran and Pakistan have these "ballistic missiles", right?



from muslim countries ? i will say yes real missile makers in muslims are these three but few others buy from china russia and keep them secret like iraq libya (finished )syria saudia kept secret . but buy missile is not a solution .only its give you few years then you have to buy again and its may not possible that time .as now sats monitor every thing its not 70s 80s era . only way is to make it your own start from some help or 0 but work on your own .

---------- Post added at 01:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------




TalkToMe:D said:


> Well I was expecting a direct answer, you could have done it other wise or you are not of that type, your way of answering defeats the purpose of getting into a discussion, the web is a store house of knowledge but you are just curious to know as much is required, I wasted my effort upon you, sorry



dont lose hope try it next time dear may be that time come something out  i am PURANA PAAPI and i know well if you know abut MTCR then you have good info just read it again


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## Lighting_Fighter

Self-delete


----------



## Imran Khan

Lighting_Fighter said:


> Thanks Imran. Could you tell me what other type of missiles Pakistan has? If possible Iran and Turkey too!



turkey respect the law and they have induct only 100km range J-600T Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m but they have also J-600T Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m2 which is 300 km range ballistic missiles. recently there is news turkey may made 2500km range missiles

iran produce

150 km zelal 

210 km zalal-2

200-250 km zelal-3

200 km fateh

350 km shahab-1

750 km shahab-2

1,930 km shahab-3

Unknown range fateh missile (iran claim 2500km)

1,800 km ghader missile

2000-2500 km sajjil missile 


there is news abut shahab4 and shahab5 under construction 

pakistan produce three type of missiles for nuclear forces of pakistan ballistic -cruse - air launched cruse missiles 



nasr 60km

hatf 100km

hatf1 150km

hatf1A 180km

abdali missile 180 km

ghaznavi 350km

shaheen1 750km

ghuri 1500km

ghuri2 2500km

shaheen2 3500km

cruse missile
babur 1100km

air launched cruse missile 
raad 350km

there is some news abut ghuri3 3500km range and shaheen3 4500km range are under counstruction but not yet tested or confirmed with picture videos even thee are claims abut tipu 4500lm and taimur 7000km but i dont think so its gonna happen near future


----------



## scholseys

Imran Khan said:


> turkey respect the law and they have induct only 100km range J-600T Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m but they have also J-600T Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m2 which is 300 km range ballistic missiles. recently there is news turkey may made 2500km range missiles
> 
> iran produce
> 
> 150 km zelal
> 
> 210 km zalal-2
> 
> 200-250 km zelal-3
> 
> 200 km fateh
> 
> 350 km shahab-1
> 
> 750 km shahab-2
> 
> 1,930 km shahab-3
> 
> Unknown range fateh missile (iran claim 2500km)
> 
> 1,800 km ghader missile
> 
> 2000-2500 km sajjil missile
> 
> 
> there is news abut shahab4 and shahab5 under construction
> 
> pakistan produce three type of missiles for nuclear forces of pakistan ballistic -cruse - air launched cruse missiles
> 
> 
> 
> nasr 60km
> 
> hatf 100km
> 
> hatf1 150km
> 
> hatf1A 180km
> 
> abdali missile 180 km
> 
> ghaznavi 290km
> 
> shaheen1 750km
> 
> ghuri 1500km
> 
> ghuri2 2500km
> 
> shaheen2 3500km
> 
> cruse missile
> babur 1100km
> 
> air launched cruse missile
> raad 350km
> 
> there is some news abut ghuri3 3500km range and shaheen3 4500km range are under counstruction but not yet tested or confirmed with picture videos even thee are claims abut tipu 4500lm and taimur 7000km but i dont think so its gonna happen near future



that is some badass arsenal....which of these have nuclear capabilities?


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## Imran Khan

aazidane said:


> that is some badass arsenal....which of these have nuclear capabilities?



only Pakistani missiles have nuclear + conventional warheads capability dear turkey iran have no nukes they use conventional warheads


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## scholseys

Imran Khan said:


> only Pakistani missiles have nuclear + conventional warheads capability dear turkey iran have no nukes they use conventional warheads



lol no wonder India doesnt try to poke it's nose in your affairs. pakistan can accirately hit any part of India, now that is some badass dope capability.


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## Imran Khan




----------



## TalkToMe:D

Imran Khan said:


> dont lose hope try it next time dear may be that time come something out  i am PURANA PAAPI and i know well if you know abut MTCR then you have good info just read it again



Well its useless to quarrel with you but I thought MTCR restriction was for 500KG weight and 300KM range, by the way with all your efforts on keyboard you could have enlighten me, if I am wrongly informed but I honestly dont expect a reply from your way of answering and dont care to ask an Imran Khan anymore, thank you very much.


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## Lighting_Fighter

Eventhough the last video says about pak superiority, I still would stay vigilent about India's capabilities. India is way larger the Pakistan.


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## Desert Fox

Pakistani Missiles vs Indian Missiles - YouTube

---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 AM ----------




Imran Khan said:


> turkey respect the law and they have induct only 100km range J-600T Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m but they have also J-600T Y&#305;ld&#305;r&#305;m2 which is 300 km range ballistic missiles. recently there is news turkey may made 2500km range missiles
> 
> iran produce
> 
> 150 km zelal
> 
> 210 km zalal-2
> 
> 200-250 km zelal-3
> 
> 200 km fateh
> 
> 350 km shahab-1
> 
> 750 km shahab-2
> 
> 1,930 km shahab-3
> 
> Unknown range fateh missile (iran claim 2500km)
> 
> 1,800 km ghader missile
> 
> 2000-2500 km sajjil missile
> 
> 
> there is news abut shahab4 and shahab5 under construction
> 
> pakistan produce three type of missiles for nuclear forces of pakistan ballistic -cruse - air launched cruse missiles
> 
> 
> 
> nasr 60km
> 
> hatf 100km
> 
> hatf1 150km
> 
> hatf1A 180km
> 
> abdali missile 180 km
> 
> ghaznavi 350km
> 
> shaheen1 750km
> 
> ghuri 1500km
> 
> ghuri2 2500km
> 
> shaheen2 3500km
> 
> cruse missile
> babur 1100km
> 
> air launched cruse missile
> raad 350km
> 
> there is some news abut ghuri3 3500km range and shaheen3 4500km range are under counstruction but not yet tested or confirmed with picture videos even thee are claims abut tipu 4500lm and taimur 7000km but i dont think so its gonna happen near future



Imran, Babur range is not 1100km, its 700km. Maybe Babur II will have 1000km+ range.

---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------


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## Lighting_Fighter

Desert Fox said:


> Pakistani Missiles vs Indian Missiles - YouTube
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> Imran, Babur range is not 1100km, its 700km. Maybe Babur II will have 1000km+ range.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 AM ----------



You must have seen the blunt nose of Russian warheads. Why is it like that, i mean why isn't it sharp?


----------



## M_Saint

aazidane said:


> It seems all our military upgrades we get from Awami League, BNP never buys anything. After all this you'd expect BNP to buy all the hardwares.


 
It was not true as 16 F-7 BG (Brand New unlike AWAMY's used MIG-29) were purchased (http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-54434.html) during BNP's era, infrastructure was also laid down to get top-notch training and during that time the emphasis on creating 'Cream Of The Crops' were accelerated thus the numbers of BD's finest got many folds higher. Furthermore, army's true potential was put in practice and the result was visible as BDR scored 20+ against 0 of BSF in pitched battles. It was some of those officers that got murdered in BDR's dorbar hall led all those fights thus such result was achieved. Such innovative formations were visible in many other fields too as meritocracy was given emphasis than showing soft corner for party cadres like AWAMY Leaguers.


----------



## M_Saint

aazidane said:


> lol no wonder India doesnt try to poke it's nose in your affairs. pakistan can accirately hit any part of India, now that is some badass dope capability.


Lol! Did you realize that you just graduated in understanding how bully's acts got thwarted?


----------



## scholseys

M_Saint said:


> Lol! Did you realize that you just graduated in understanding how bully's acts got thwarted?


 i knew it a long back thanks though


----------



## Imran Khan

TalkToMe:D said:


> Well its useless to quarrel with you but I thought MTCR restriction was for 500KG weight and 300KM range, by the way with all your efforts on keyboard you could have enlighten me, if I am wrongly informed but I honestly dont expect a reply from your way of answering and dont care to ask an Imran Khan anymore, thank you very much.



not my problem you thing 300km or 30.000km . i am not here sitting for educate you guys .and simply yu should search on uncle google rather then ask left right .as you can see i ignore your qes its mean i also don't care you and your qes


----------



## Zabaniyah

aazidane said:


> It seems all our military upgrades we get from Awami League, BNP never buys anything. After all this you'd expect BNP to buy all the hardwares.



The reason why the AL spends more on military equipment is due to the military's mistrust of the AL. The AL do this in order to keep them happy and give them an equal footing. 

During the BNP admin, they did spend on various small-scale military programs.


----------



## kobiraaz

Strange! It is written about BNP in wikipedia: 

The BNP promotes a very center-right policy combining elements of conservatism, corporatism, nationalism, * militarism *, anti-anarchism and anti-communism. It is more popular among the country's business class, military, and conservatives. The party believes that Islam is an integral part of the socio-cultural life of Bangladesh, and favors Islamic principles as well as cultural views.


----------



## Zabaniyah

Wikipedia is for trolls. PERIOD.


----------



## eastwatch

aazidane said:


> lol no wonder India doesnt try to poke it's nose in your affairs. pakistan can accirately hit any part of India, now that is some badass dope capability.



No, on the contrary, India remains happy if Pakistan does not poke its nose into the India-held Kashmir. If things go that way, you can bet, India will mass its troops along the border. And do not get into this idea that any country will ever use a nuclear bomb. It is not a real deterence for a conventional war. However, things may change if one nuclear dumb country uses this bomb against another nuclear country.

A nuclear bomb is certainly not a child's play.


----------



## La Hore

aazidane said:


> I dont think they'll sell us s 300 due to the defensive ties the ruskies have with the Indians. India is very close to russia. Our only hope is if the chinese can come up with something.



India is not a problem here as long as Hasina is in power. In the last couple of years, Hasina signed a lot of deals with russia and india itself. 2000MW nuke power plant with russia and 1350MW coal power plant with india are the most recent published. At least 10 more unpublished one are there with each nations. BD is a very good friend of Russia and India also. I think, India will influence russia to supply BD with Su-30/Mig-29 and if BD wish S-300/S-400. This will be a big help for indians in countering Burmese threats in the 7sister region and with this kind of procurement India can keep bd away from buying equipment and strengthening BD relation with China(India's biggest enemy). Thus India shall have most influence over BD.


----------



## Imran Khan

so major you make this (la hore) ID for clear us that you was right ?


----------



## Manticore

STICK TO THE TOPIC , GENTLEMEN


----------



## void_0in

pls tell me about configuration. Is it better than Hamara bajaj ? How is the pick up & milage? I will buy one.


----------



## Avisheik

We are flogging a dead horse here. The discussion for the f7s has ended a long time ago. The only thing to do now is to wait for them to arrive in bd


----------



## TopCat

La Hore said:


> India is not a problem here as long as Hasina is in power. In the last couple of years, Hasina signed a lot of deals with russia and india itself. 2000MW nuke power plant with russia and 1350MW coal power plant with india are the most recent published. At least 10 more unpublished one are there with each nations. BD is a very good friend of Russia and India also. I think, India will influence russia to supply BD with Su-30/Mig-29 and if BD wish S-300/S-400. This will be a big help for indians in countering Burmese threats in the 7sister region and with this kind of procurement India can keep bd away from buying equipment and strengthening BD relation with China(India's biggest enemy). Thus India shall have most influence over BD.


 
Interestingly this time, BNP did not raise any question regarding defence procurement. They supported nuke deal, also seems supported Indian coal power plant. Is it because, AL this time around kept China in confidence awarding even bigger basket.


----------



## Avisheik

iajdani said:


> Interestingly this time, *BNP did not raise any question regarding defence procurement. They supported nuke deal, also seems supported Indian coal power plant.* Is it because, AL this time around kept China in confidence awarding even bigger basket.



Since we are having a rough patch with the indians as well as the burmese(2008 standoff), opposing arms deal will make BNP look anti-nationalistic. 

As for the power plant, they were quite neutral about it.


----------



## Desert Fox

Lighting_Fighter said:


> You must have seen the blunt nose of Russian warheads. *Why is it like that, i mean why isn't it sharp?*



I don't know, not an expert in this field.


----------



## eastwatch

iajdani said:


> Interestingly this time, BNP did not raise any question regarding defence procurement. They supported nuke deal, also seems supported Indian coal power plant. Is it because, AL this time around kept China in confidence awarding even bigger basket.



BNP says almost nothing against Burma, but says always against India. However, BNP inducted less q'ty of arms during its two terms than AL did and is doing. Yet, BNP is regarded as nationalist. On the contrary, AL is distrusted by both the military and population only because it is too inclined towards India.


----------



## chisty_chowdhury

As told to stick to the topic------
When we are expecting to receive these F-7BGI? This year? Any updates?


----------



## La Hore

So far I know, BD did place an order to China for the delivery of 16 J-7BGI with 3MFD, HOTAS and LGB&GPS guided munitions which shall replace their inventory of Q-5 scheduled to be retired by 2014. Beyond that I do not know anything about the status or what sort of avionics will be in those aircraft or anything. One thing is not clear to me that why did they order for J7 when they could with that kind of funding buy 4-6 Mig-29SMT and upgrade all of their existing Mig-29SE/UB to SMT standard as well.


----------



## Desert Fox

well since a few Bangladeshi members were discussing the purchase of long range SAM's, i think the Chinese HQ-9 would make a good long range SAM system, along with medium range SAM's (SPADA 2000 is a good medium range SAM), Short range SAM's and shoulder launched MANPADS would make a good overlapping SAM umbrella denying the enemy the ability to enter Bangladesh's airspace.


----------



## chisty_chowdhury

First BD needs to establish the short rang SAM network (thats BD is doing now). Then the medium range SAM and finally the long rang SAM and it will take least 6 years.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## chisty_chowdhury

mil-avia said:


> *Possible cockpit parameters of F-7 BGI fighter aircraft :*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Related photo of earlier F-7 BG aircraft cockpit in post # 1264 of another thread.*

Reactions: Like Like:
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## La Hore

Desert Fox said:


> well since a few Bangladeshi members were discussing the purchase of long range SAM's, i think the Chinese HQ-9 would make a good long range SAM system, along with medium range SAM's (SPADA 2000 is a good medium range SAM), Short range SAM's and shoulder launched MANPADS would make a good overlapping SAM umbrella denying the enemy the ability to enter Bangladesh's airspace.


 
I had read this more than a year ago from some other forum that BD is thinking of introducing Buk-M1 missile system. What happened to that deal? That could have been a great Mid-range-high-altitude missile defense system. 



---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------




chisty_chowdhury said:


>



This can not be the J-7BGI cockpit. The Chief of Air Staff of BAF had officially announced 3 MFD. In the pic there are two. To put one more MFD, the design must be changed. One thing I have heard is the MFDs will be larger than the earlier J-7BG. If it is true then they need to redesign the entire cockpit to accommodate the larger MFDs and its switches.


----------



## chisty_chowdhury

La Hore said:


> ---------- Post added at 06:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:20 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> This can not be the J-7BGI cockpit. The Chief of Air Staff of BAF had officially announced 3 MFD. In the pic there are two. To put one more MFD, the design must be changed. One thing I have heard is the MFDs will be larger than the earlier J-7BG. If it is true then they need to redesign the entire cockpit to accommodate the larger MFDs and its switches.



Of course. I was just referring to the images, where it was taken from.


----------



## mil-avia

mil-avia said:


> *Possible cockpit parameters of F-7 BGI fighter aircraft :*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Related photo of earlier F-7 BG aircraft cockpit in post # 1264 of another thread.*


 *Found the cockpit photo from the following Chinese source :
http://1803.img.pp.sohu.com.cn/images/blog/2011/11/20/17/5/u11020781_1347e38ef5ag213.jpg *


----------



## mil-avia

chisty_chowdhury said:


>


 *CATIC Forum image taken from the following French source :
Armée de l'air Bangladaise *


----------



## Major Shaheb

BAF is buying 10 YAK-130 instead of M-346. Both aircraft has same airframe and performs prety much the same way.

---------- Post added at 10:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 PM ----------

So, my source was right about it.

Reactions: Like Like:
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## M.H.J.

houshanghai said:


> yes,JFT PT01 once called super-7.but it does not mean that the design of JFT come from J7.
> JF-17 Deputychief engineer : PAF combat experience into the design of the jf17 - YouTube
> 
> 
> the Deputy chief designer said that the design of JFT come from PAF's combat experience(mainly PAF's F16).he confirm JF17 is a undisputed 4gen (chinese 3rd)fighter in world,he denied the statement of that jf17 is a J7's variant.
> 
> 
> The development course of JF17 THUNDER/ FC1 XIAOLONG - YouTube
> 
> this cctv interview of all chinese engineer on JF17 project,they also denied the statement of that jf17 is a J7's variant like the Deputy chief designer.indeed,bcz PAF was not satisfied with the original design of SUPER7,So CAC had to redesigned the aircraft .
> This is why super-7 was renamed JF17 after the first flight tests of JF17 PT01 in 2003 .The number&#8220;17&#8221;(>16) means that the new aircraft will beat USA's F16. Do you think a J7's variant can beat USA's F16.LOL.
> btw,the real final version of J7 is guizhou JL9.however,JF17 is anything but J7's variant.






Sorry to interrupt...But sir, please say something about these pics...

1. FC-1 





2. FC-1/JF-17/Super-7 






Does Pak have Super 7 too, which is looks like JF-17 or JF-17 looks like Super 7 ???!! 

FC-1/JF-17 or Super 7 ...???!!! 



Here is the link: Modern nske sthacie lietadl 




Anyway, I like FC-1 multi-role fighter. It's a very cost effective and good fighter... 



- MHJ ...

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## M.H.J.

F-7BGI China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group Company F-7-based research and development of new models, equipped with improved airborne equipment, including - - - hand throttle lever, hands on the bar, control device (HOTAS) ,control device, three multi-function cockpit displays and a HUD. The machine also has the ability to use guided weapons, the use of GPS signals to transmit high-precision air-guided bombs. The machine also has GPS system for navigation bomb throwing ability due to Bangladesh's orders. 

* F-7BGI is BVR capable,,,so, It will have a different looks and nose for it's new radar...




I guess BAF 's F-7BGI will look like any one of these F-7 models/variants/...

1. F-7FS 





2. F-7X





3. F-7MF








http://www.hitechweb.genezis.eu/fightersOF02.files/chengdu_F-7MF_FC-1.jpg

4. F-7 Super Seven 









5. JL-9





6. F-7 with CFT







Who knows...???!!! 



- MHJ ...


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## applesauce

Super seven was the original plan for a massively upgraded j-7, it was to included western help, specifically help from the US. after 89' due to sanctions the plan fell apart but CAC kept the project alive through its own low level funding, until PAF/PLAAF interest grew again and from there on it was massively redesigned using the new funds, new tech and much input from PAF and produced the jf-17 as it is today

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## TopCat

I heard, capabilitywise JF-17 and F-7BGI would be almost same.

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## Avisheik

iajdani said:


> I heard, capabilitywise JF-17 and F-7BGI would be almost same.



It might be similar to jf17 block 1 capability wise, but i dont think it will match up to block 2

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## Icewolf

Why Bangladesh want such old fighter? (I'm not trolling, just asking)


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## scholseys

Icewolf said:


> Why Bangladesh want such old fighter? (I'm not trolling, just asking)



we don't have any serious enemy that we can use high tech jets with. Its pretty pointless. We can't match India, it is pointless trying to nor do we have any beef with Myanmar. These F 7s are perfect for us, part of the modernization program of our military.

I rather have us go for some good SAMs and spend money reducing our poverty. We are growing at an astronomical 10%, thanks to our low defense spending.

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## M.H.J.

Those F-7s were ordered long before the our MMRCA deal was finalized. It was intended to replace the BAF's aging A-5s and act as a 'stop gap'.

FC-1 and F-7BGI have almost same number(6/7/8) of hardpoints and both are BVR capable. 
But, FC-1 has a little better avionics and radar.

* F-7BGI is the most advanced F-7 variant ever...    
F-7BGI is cheaper than FC-1...So, F-7BGI is perfect for "stop gap".  

Bangladesh Air Force plans to buy new fighter aircraft, and most promising candidate models, including the U.S. F-16 and Russia's MiG-29SMT/M1-M2. In addition, Sweden's JAS-39 and Russian Su-30 will also participate in the competition. BAF will also procure Mil Mi-35 Super Hind attack helicopter and Mil Mi-171SH support helicopter.



NEways, why are you all calling F-7 a junk? Yet PK and China still have the biggest inventory of that junk. Its a proven platform. No doubt about it. BD did not choose it as the base for its airforce. Its going to buy true 4++ generation fighters in near future. Just wait and see. When we take things in our hand, we take it seriously. A simple example, BD did not consider nuclear energy before but once it did, it ordered 2000 MW plant in a single go. BD never sent satellite before but this time they are sending 2 most modern satellite at a time. We did not consider buying advanced craft for our Navy but this time we ordered a whole lot of them. We already setup "Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre" institute and a indigenous light aircraft will be built in that within next 10 years,,,InShaAllah...   



- MHJ ...

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## scholseys

"stop gap" in bangla means 10 years

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## Lighting_Fighter

aazidane said:


> "stop gap" in bangla means 10 years




lolzzzz........................


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## Patriot

iajdani said:


> I heard, capabilitywise JF-17 and F-7BGI would be almost same.


haha genius where did you hear this?How will you stick high range radar in small nose of F-7 ( as compared to JF-17)..I highly doubt F-7BGI will have BVR capability.F7 is no where close to JF-17 even if you put modern avionics since you would not be able to make it BVR capable fighter as the nose is too small for a good radar and maneuverability wise obviously it wont be anywhere close to JF-17 (As JF-17 has better engine/frame and FBW).


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## M.H.J.

Patriot said:


> haha genius where did you hear this?How will you stick high range radar in small nose of F-7 ( as compared to JF-17)..I highly doubt F-7BGI will have BVR capability.F7 is no where close to JF-17 even if you put modern avionics since you would not be able to make it BVR capable fighter as the nose is too small for a good radar and maneuverability wise obviously it wont be anywhere close to JF-17 (As JF-17 has better engine/frame and FBW).





F-7BGI China's Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group Company F-7-based research and development of new models, equipped with improved airborne equipment, including - - - hand throttle lever, hands on the bar, control device (HOTAS) ,control device, three multi-function cockpit displays and a HUD. The machine also has the ability to use guided weapons, the use of GPS signals to transmit high-precision air-guided bombs. The machine also has GPS system for navigation bomb throwing ability due to Bangladesh's orders.
* It is confirmed that F-7BGI is BVR capable,,,so, It will have a different looks and nose for it's new radar...
* Bangladesh have ordered PL-12/SD-10 BVR missile with F-7BGI. 
* F-7BGI is the most advanced F-7 variant ever... 
F-7BGI is cheaper than FC-1...So, F-7BGI is perfect for "stop gap". 


*** Please look at the post no. 683, 684 & 690(previous page/page no.46 of this thread) *** 



Thanks,
Regards.

- M. H. Jami.


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## Luftwaffe

F-7BGI is a stop gap and 10 Years is enough for BAF to have enough funds to procure a technological superior Aircraft BUT doubtful enough it wouldn't be Mig-29 (obsolete) and Rafale (hindustan will operate) but it could be su-35, F-18SH, Gripen NG (American inputs involved thus venerable to US restrictions) or hopefully J-10B available by 2020 for export to other customers, The price/cost would have come down as globally Air Forces would be Investing as They are in 5th Gen.

Problem with russian/US platforms in hindustani lobby and future sanctions other than that these are excellent multirole platform (FC-1 BLK III/J-10B BLK? would be the only one without any strings attached).

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## Luftwaffe

M.H.J. said:


> F-7BGI is cheaper than FC-1...So, F-7BGI is perfect for "stop gap"



Yes it does make sense but at the same time it seems the current bangladeshi government is pro-hindustani therefore both Parties involved in FC-1/JF-17 could be wary of any deal regarding the platform as well as BAF would also look towards its funds limits, BAF saves atleast $160M.

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## Lone

...since this is for stop gap, I think the choice is okay. In the meantime we must concentrate on the real target. Which one will we choose? In my opinion -> Gripen (if without any sanction and restriction )/ Su-30(available latest variant)/ F18/ J10B...


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## Luftwaffe

Lone said:


> ...since this is for stop gap, I think the choice is okay. In the meantime we must concentrate on the real target. Which one will we choose? In my opinion -> Gripen (if without any sanction and restriction )/ Su-30(available latest variant)/ F18/ J10B...



Most likely would be su-35 Variant or J-10 Variant, Any thing else besides these two; BAF should look into post 2019/2020 should be Typhoon IF hindustani lobby does not fiddle. Remember smarter Air Force is the one that goes after quality-technology.

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## chisty_chowdhury

BAF has ordered Yak-130. That means we are going for Russian fighters. It could be Su-30MKK or Su-35.

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## Lighting_Fighter

I say no to any US fighter jet. Either Russia or China. Jas, Rafael or any other euro. well we have to think where will we get all the support during, god forbid, during any war.

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## boltu

chisty_chowdhury said:


> BAF has ordered Yak-130. That means we are going for Russian fighters. It could be Su-30MKK or Su-35.


Yes also have ordered YAK-152 basic trainers,now it makes more sense to go for Russian birds.


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## kobiraaz

Yak 152 Going to replace PT6?


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## boltu

kobiraaz said:


> Yak 152 Going to replace PT6?


Yes thats what i've come to know from bdmilitary.


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## nomi007

IT WAS Better for Bangladesh to purchased Pakistani f-7pg
which gone be retired soon


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## Avisheik

nomi007 said:


> IT WAS Better for Bangladesh to purchased Pakistani f-7pg
> which gone be retired soon



Nah, those f-7pgs are damn old planes. Dont think its safe


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## Luftwaffe

Avisheik said:


> Nah, those f-7pgs are damn old planes. Dont think its safe



F-7PGs are 10-11 Years old, will continue to serve in PAF around 2018 atleast. PAF has no intentions to sell them off.

F-7PG were purchased-ordered in 1999 and delivery were completed in 2001/2002

I was hoping BAF would go for Turkish basic Trainer KT-1 as an export customer.


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## little oax

M.H.J. said:


> Those F-7s were ordered long before the our MMRCA deal was finalized. It was intended to replace the BAF's aging A-5s and act as a 'stop gap'.
> 
> FC-1 and F-7BGI have almost same number(6/7/8) of hardpoints and both are BVR capable.
> But, FC-1 has a little better avionics and radar.
> 
> * F-7BGI is the most advanced F-7 variant ever...
> F-7BGI is cheaper than FC-1...So, F-7BGI is perfect for "stop gap".
> 
> Bangladesh Air Force plans to buy new fighter aircraft, and most promising candidate models, including the U.S. F-16 and Russia's MiG-29SMT/M1-M2. In addition, Sweden's JAS-39 and Russian Su-30 will also participate in the competition. BAF will also procure Mil Mi-35 Super Hind attack helicopter and Mil Mi-171SH support helicopter.
> 
> 
> 
> NEways, why are you all calling F-7 a junk? Yet PK and China still have the biggest inventory of that junk. Its a proven platform. No doubt about it. BD did not choose it as the base for its airforce. Its going to buy true 4++ generation fighters in near future. Just wait and see. When we take things in our hand, we take it seriously. A simple example, BD did not consider nuclear energy before but once it did, it ordered 2000 MW plant in a single go. BD never sent satellite before but this time they are sending 2 most modern satellite at a time. We did not consider buying advanced craft for our Navy but this time we ordered a whole lot of them. We already setup "Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre" institute and a indigenous light aircraft will be built in that within next 10 years,,,InShaAllah...
> 
> 
> 
> - MHJ ...


 
All of these sound very promising, however could you/someone shed some light on the progress of them please i.e. where we are in procuring/implementing etc. because I kept hearing about them for quite a while??

Thanks for the post by the way.


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## Major Shaheb

aazidane said:


> we don't have any serious enemy that we can use high tech jets with. Its pretty pointless. We can't match India, it is pointless trying to nor do we have any beef with Myanmar. These F 7s are perfect for us, part of the modernization program of our military.
> 
> I rather have us go for some good SAMs and spend money reducing our poverty. We are growing at an astronomical 10%, thanks to our low defense spending.


 
I do not agree. India has 17 times more land, air and 10 times more water to protect than Bangladesh. That suggest why they have so many fighters, tank and ships. what we are protecting is very much like a state of India if you compare like that. Besides, India has some bigger pain (thats how the indians think) to take care of - Pakistan and China. There is also Myanmar, Bangladesh, Srilanka, Butan, Nepal... They have bigger border to protect.

Bangladesh Air Force basically needs 4 to 5 air superiority/multirole squadron max. One should be stationed in Cox's Bazar FOB, one at Chittagong, two at Dhaka and one at Bogra. That should cover the whole country. These squadrons are going to be equiped with one of four fighter aircrafts (Mig-29SMT/M/M2, F-16 Block 50/52, Su-30MK2, JAS-39) under evaluation. Here to mention that AL govt is more interested in Migs and the AF asked for Su-30. The first batch shall be of 20-32 aircrafts are to be arrive bd by 2021.

In the mean time Govt. ordered for one squadron (16 aircraft) of F-7BGI with KLJ-6F radar with a range of 70km. The aircrafts are to be fitted with PL-11 BVR capable air-to-air missiles with a range of 60km. 

The second purpose of F-7BGI is to replace aging A-5C and FT-6 from air force. As such the aircrafts are also capable of smart bombs, laser guided bombs, anti runway bombs and air to ground missiles making them a true multirole fighter aircraft. The unit price is also very low. 

F-7BGI are exactly what BAF needed as stop-gap aircraft.


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## eastwatch

Luftwaffe said:


> Most likely would be su-35 Variant or J-10 Variant, Any thing else besides these two; BAF should look into post 2019/2020 should be Typhoon IF hindustani lobby does not fiddle. Remember smarter Air Force is the one that goes after quality-technology.



It seems BAF has already decided to purchase one sq. of Su-30M2 planes under the Russian $850 million credit line. These will come after the already ordered one sq. of YAK-130 training aircrafts and 8 units of Mig-29SMT multipurpose aircrafts from Russia are inducted under the same credit. All these planes will be coming on top of the China made one sq. of F-7BGI fighters.


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## iajj

SuperDoper said:


> Rumor has it that star of david has crept up on the Chinese currency of 1 yuan denomination. You know what I am saying?


 
is this person retarded, repeating the same line at the end of each posting? i recall another poster doing the same from two, three years ago - is this the same guy? is he a teen? is he american? is he black?


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## Major Shaheb

Bangladesh Air Force should have buy 4 Su-30MK2 instead of 16 F-7BGI. That would have been a wize decision.


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## chisty_chowdhury

Major Shaheb said:


> Bangladesh Air Force should have buy 4 Su-30MK2 instead of 16 F-7BGI. That would have been a wize decision.



Purposes are different. Our BAF is not that light in strategy.


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## Major Shaheb

chisty_chowdhury said:


> Purposes are different. Our BAF is not that light in strategy.


 
So, u think buying a 1956 designed F-7 is a better decission over Su-30!! BAF needs to maintain a single fighter line. With all Su-30 u can cut strategic cost. Su-30 is at a time one of the best Dogfighter, one of the best fighter bomber, one of the best recon, one of the best for petroling and has a total of 12 hardpoints with wide variety of weapons load.

48 Su-30 can meet BAF Fighter, ground attack, bomber, recon, petrol requirements completely.

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## UKBengali

Major Shaheb said:


> So, u think buying a 1956 designed F-7 is a better decission over Su-30!! BAF needs to maintain a single fighter line. With all Su-30 u can cut strategic cost. Su-30 is at a time one of the best Dogfighter, one of the best fighter bomber, one of the best recon, one of the best for petroling and has a total of 12 hardpoints with wide variety of weapons load.
> 
> 48 Su-30 can meet BAF Fighter, ground attack, bomber, recon, petrol requirements completely.



The Su-30 can carry out strikes on targets up to 3000Km away.

Also, it's range would allow air-cover to the BD Navy in the Bay of Bengal.


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## TopCat

eastwatch said:


> It seems BAF has already decided to purchase one sq. of Su-30M2 planes under the Russian $850 million credit line. These will come after the already ordered one sq. of YAK-130 training aircrafts and 8 units of Mig-29SMT multipurpose aircrafts from Russia are inducted under the same credit. All these planes will be coming on top of the China made one sq. of F-7BGI fighters.



If we really induct SU-30, then BD will have enough teeth to attack Myanmar.



UKBengali said:


> The Su-30 can carry out strikes on targets up to 3000Km away.
> 
> Also, it's range would allow air-cover to the BD Navy in the Bay of Bengal.



Mig-29 are enough for our BoB. SU-30s are too expensive to put them in the front line. These are strategic fighter and used only when deep penetration needed.


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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> If we really induct SU-30, then BD will have enough teeth to attack Myanmar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mig-29 are enough for our BoB. *SU-30s are too expensive to put them in the front line. These are strategic fighter and used only when deep penetration needed.*



in fact not that much even Ugandan Air Force has ordered 6 Su-30MK2s which is one of the poorest country on earth .


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## Major Shaheb

iajdani said:


> If we really induct SU-30, then BD will have enough teeth to attack Myanmar.
> 
> 
> 
> Mig-29 are enough for our BoB. SU-30s are too expensive to put them in the front line. These are strategic fighter and used *only when deep penetration needed*.



Totally agree on first part but dont agree on the deep penetration part. Su-30 can do all the things better than Mig-29 at its best capability. It can do almost all kind of ariel combat you name. A single platform that can fullfill BAF requirements for the next 25-30 years. Su-30 is a much mighter teeth than mig-29. Mig-29 is a great fighter aircraft but after 10-15 years it will be really difficult for BD to find Mig-29SMT parts, which is very unlikely for Su-30.


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## TopCat

Major Shaheb said:


> Totally agree on first part but dont agree on the deep penetration part. Su-30 can do all the things better than Mig-29 at its best capability. It can do almost all kind of ariel combat you name. A single platform that can fullfill BAF requirements for the next 25-30 years. Su-30 is a much mighter teeth than mig-29. Mig-29 is a great fighter aircraft but after 10-15 years it will be really difficult for BD to find Mig-29SMT parts, which is very unlikely for Su-30.



I dont differ on the capabilities. But SU-30 is not designed for front line fighter that was my point.


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## Zabaniyah

Major Shaheb said:


> Totally agree on first part but dont agree on the deep penetration part. Su-30 can do all the things better than Mig-29 at its best capability. It can do almost all kind of ariel combat you name. A single platform that can fullfill BAF requirements for the next 25-30 years. Su-30 is a much mighter teeth than mig-29. Mig-29 is a great fighter aircraft but after 10-15 years it will be really difficult for BD to find Mig-29SMT parts, which is very unlikely for Su-30.



Well, there's a difference between the MiG-29 and the Su-30.

The MiG-29 is mostly for operations inside the country's territory. 

The Su-30 excels at combat operations beyond the country's territory, that is in enemy territory. It's a deep strike penetrator after all. 

It is technically also possible for the MiG-29 to do so, but it has to sacrifice payload to do the job. The Su-30 fulfills that job much more thoroughly. And yes, it packs a massive punch.

Aircraft spares can still be available even after it is no longer in mass production.


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## Imran Khan

Zabaniya said:


> There's a difference between the MiG-29 and the Su-30.
> 
> The MiG-29 is mostly for operations inside the country's territory.
> 
> The Su-30 excels at combat operations beyond the country's territory, that is in enemy territory. It's a deep strike penetrator after all.
> 
> It is technically also possible for the MiG-29 to do so, but it has to sacrifice payload to do the job. The Su-30 fulfills that job much more thoroughly. And yes, it packs a massive punch.



what if enemy have AWACS and ground radars with more then 350km range and very nice interceptors light fighters loaded with tons of BVRs how this fat baby will keep safe in enemy air space ?

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## TopCat

Imran Khan said:


> what if enemy have AWACS and ground radars with more then 350km range and very nice interceptors light fighters loaded with tons of BVRs how this fat baby will keep safe in enemy air space ?



Everything has a counter measure.


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## Zabaniyah

Imran Khan said:


> what if enemy have AWACS and ground radars with more then 350km range and very nice interceptors light fighters loaded with tons of BVRs how this fat baby will keep safe in enemy air space ?



It really depends on the opponent. Our main concern is not India, but Myanmar. 

Given that the air force have the right infrastructure and support, they can do well. The F-15 is also a fat baby and yet, it has a flawless combat record. 

How the air force organizes itself, along with the right equipment, support and training really matter. The BAF to some extent lacks BVR and netcentric warfare capabilities, so I'd say they have some way to go to be truly world class, capable of holding on its own.



iajdani said:


> Everything has a counter measure.



And that. Depending on the package and version, the Su-30 can have powerful counter measure systems. Integrating Western systems always raises the bar.

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## Imran Khan

iajdani said:


> Everything has a counter measure.



SU-30 too..........


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## Major Shaheb

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...navy-pakistan-navy-naval-war.html#post3078516


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## PlanetSoldier

Zabaniya said:


> It really depends on the opponent. *Our main concern is not India, but Myanmar.*
> 
> Given that the air force have the right infrastructure and support, they can do well. The F-15 is also a fat baby and yet, it has a flawless combat record.
> 
> How the air force organizes itself, along with the right equipment, support and training really matter. The BAF to some extent lacks BVR and netcentric warfare capabilities, so I'd say they have some way to go to be truly world class, capable of holding on its own.
> 
> 
> 
> And that. Depending on the package and version, the Su-30 can have powerful counter measure systems. Integrating Western systems always raises the bar.



Bangla millennium motto , every BD people should memorize it. Thousand people died within 10 years..draw the clear picture how BD people are passing their lives on indo-Bangla border area. Almost all rivers entering BD are dammed and your main concern is Myanmar not india. How many BD people did Myanmar kill and how much land of BD are currently under Myanmar occupation? Please don't impose your concern on BD people saying *our concern*, it's definitely your concern.


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## Zabaniyah

PlanetSoldier said:


> Bangla millennium motto , every BD people should memorize it. Thousand people died within 10 years..draw the clear picture how BD people are passing their lives on indo-Bangla border area. Almost all rivers entering BD are dammed and your main concern is Myanmar not india. How many BD people did Myanmar kill and how much land of BD are currently under Myanmar occupation? Please don't impose your concern on BD people saying *our concern*, it's definitely your concern.



Well, what do you suppose we do about India? Match up with them militarily? 

Ask yourself: 

1. Do we have nuclear weapons? - No. 

2. Would we be able to access nuclear weapon technology? - Maybe possible, but very difficult these days. 

3. Can we generally match them with technology? - We are at least 10 years behind in terms of technology. 

4. Do we have the resources? - No. 

5. Do we have the relevant links to contain India considering we are surrounded by it? - No. 

Are there other options? Yes. 

The reason for problems with India are:

1. Lack of international diplomatic attempts by the Bangladesh government (both BNP and AL) over water-sharing issues. 

2. India shares the largest border with Bangladesh (not China or Pakistan). It is not easy to monitor the whole thing. And that is a challenge. 

3. The problems at the border is partly related to the enclaves issue. Neither government is willing to solve it. The last time we exchanged enclaves, India gained a lot more land. 

4. Both BSF and BGB have links with underground organizations specializing in human trafficking and cattle trade. Neither party is doing anything about it. And I believe some top levels benefit from all the shenanigans going on there. 

As I said, it is lack of diplomatic initiative on Bangladesh's part regarding India. And there would be international laws dictating them. This especially relates to the water issue, and they better get to that fast. 

As for securing the border, that is the job of the BGB and coast guard - not the army, air force or navy. But then, solving the outstanding issues is the job of governments of both countries.

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## livingdead

PlanetSoldier said:


> Bangla millennium motto , every BD people should memorize it. T*housand people died within 10 years*..draw the clear picture how BD people are passing their lives on indo-Bangla border area. Almost all rivers entering BD are dammed and your main concern is Myanmar not india. How many BD people did Myanmar kill and how much land of BD are currently under Myanmar occupation? Please don't impose your concern on BD people saying *our concern*, it's definitely your concern.


Out of 1000 people, 500 are Indians.
Bangladeshis here will rather lie to themselves than find a solution to the issue.


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## PlanetSoldier

Zabaniya said:


> Well, what do you suppose we do about India? Match up with them militarily?
> 
> Ask yourself:
> 
> 1. Do we have nuclear weapons? - No.
> 
> 2. Would we be able to access nuclear weapon technology? - Maybe possible, but very difficult these days.
> 
> 3. Can we generally match them with technology? - We are at least 10 years behind in terms of technology.
> 
> 4. Do we have the resources? - No.
> 
> 5. Do we have the relevant links to contain India considering we are surrounded by it? - No.
> 
> Are there other options? Yes.
> 
> The reason for problems with India are:
> 
> 1. Lack of international diplomatic attempts by the Bangladesh government (both BNP and AL) over water-sharing issues.
> 
> 2. India shares the largest border with Bangladesh (not China or Pakistan). It is not easy to monitor the whole thing. And that is a challenge.
> 
> 3. The problems at the border is partly related to the enclaves issue. Neither government is willing to solve it. The last time we exchanged enclaves, India gained a lot more land.
> 
> 4. Both BSF and BGB have links with underground organizations specializing in human trafficking and cattle trade. Neither party is doing anything about it. And I believe some top levels benefit from all the shenanigans going on there.
> 
> As I said, it is lack of diplomatic initiative on Bangladesh's part regarding India. And there would be international laws dictating them. This especially relates to the water issue, and they better get to that fast.
> 
> As for securing the border, that is the job of the BGB and coast guard - not the army, air force or navy. But then, solving the outstanding issues is the job of governments of both countries.



Why do we need a matching military with india? Even Sri Lanka is now raising voice against them, do they possess a matching military with india? Geographically they are more vulnerable to india than us. We have in the neighborhood some other nations but Sri Lanka is completely isolated. Anytime an indian naval blockade can shut their mouth. Again, look at Pakistan...does its force match in military strength of india based on number other than that nuke? Only thing is they are smart enough. Size doesn't matter a lot otherwise there'd be no israel on earth...it's all willingness to survive as the best.

You yourself drew a longer list, then why are you saying our main concern is Myanmar? Does that mean we are no match, not capable in muscle power, so we'll escape the main point and start playing with false enemy? What real problem do we have with Myanmar? Well...you or many others will start arguing there sectarian riot, Nasaka/Police oppression over Rohingya etc. But I'd say it's their internal issue. We can give shelter those oppressed fellas and if possible help them covertly as there are many examples in the world like our 71. Trust me, no such internal issues have been solved by attacking rather covert actions have been taken and that without harming friendship. Also, there are much higher degree of torture going on inside india in Kashmir, NE states that don't see any media light by special act. Do we have any headache over that? No...we are after Myanmar coz we don't have the capability against our big friend.

Many here are shouting to go military way or something like that against Myanmar for Rohingya issue but didn't see a Bangladeshi who is asking to save our own people at any cost who are dying everyday at border. To raise your voice against you don't need military match. 

Myanmar had its proper lesson in 91 when they found locked from almost all side after a confrontation with BD, they'll not do something bad again unless their current master persuade them. But our main concern is no way Myanmar rather india at least before Myanmar does something that could be a cause of our concern and india has already done a lot that now should be every BD peoples' concern. Need a demo ? Just shoot 2 indian on border in response of killing one Bangladeshi, you will surely see what's the main concern of BD. By any means keeping mouth shut or escaping real thing isn't the right way. 

BTW, we are on the same page regarding our leadership and diplomatic capability.

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## TopCat

PlanetSoldier said:


> Why do we need a matching military with india? Even Sri Lanka is now raising voice against them, do they possess a matching military with india? Geographically they are more vulnerable to india than us. We have in the neighborhood some other nations but Sri Lanka is completely isolated. Anytime an indian naval blockade can shut their mouth. Again, look at Pakistan...does its force match in military strength of india based on number other than that nuke? Only thing is they are smart enough. Size doesn't matter a lot otherwise there'd be no israel on earth...it's all willingness to survive as the best.
> 
> You yourself drew a longer list, then why are you saying our main concern is Myanmar? Does that mean we are no match, not capable in muscle power, so we'll escape the main point and start playing with false enemy? What real problem do we have with Myanmar? Well...you or many others will start arguing there sectarian riot, Nasaka/Police oppression over Rohingya etc. But I'd say it's their internal issue. We can give shelter those oppressed fellas and if possible help them covertly as there are many examples in the world like our 71. Trust me, no such internal issues have been solved by attacking rather covert actions have been taken and that without harming friendship. Also, there are much higher degree of torture going on inside india in Kashmir, NE states that don't see any media light by special act. Do we have any headache over that? No...we are after Myanmar coz we don't have the capability against our big friend.
> 
> Many here are shouting to go military way or something like that against Myanmar for Rohingya issue but didn't see a Bangladeshi who is asking to save our own people at any cost who are dying everyday at border. To raise your voice against you don't need military match.
> 
> Myanmar had its proper lesson in 91 when they found locked from almost all side after a confrontation with BD, they'll not do something bad again unless their current master persuade them. But our main concern is no way Myanmar rather india at least before Myanmar does something that could be a cause of our concern and india has already done a lot that now should be every BD peoples' concern. Need a demo ? Just shoot 2 indian on border in response of killing one Bangladeshi, you will surely see what's the main concern of BD. By any means keeping mouth shut or escaping real thing isn't the right way.
> 
> BTW, we are on the same page regarding our leadership and diplomatic capability.



Taking all your points into account, you need to first make full air and naval superiority over Myanmar only to counter India. Myanmar will be a trouble maker all the time unless you let them know that you can crash them on your will. Once you achieve that objective you are one less head to worry about and can concentrate more on India. The good part of India, they will try to avoid any military confrontation with Bangladesh and keep on bullying. But with that you will get few more years of breathing space when you build your Airforce.

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## Zabaniyah

PlanetSoldier said:


> Why do we need a matching military with india? Even Sri Lanka is now raising voice against them, do they possess a matching military with india? Geographically they are more vulnerable to india than us. We have in the neighborhood some other nations but Sri Lanka is completely isolated. Anytime an indian naval blockade can shut their mouth. Again, look at Pakistan...does its force match in military strength of india based on number other than that nuke? Only thing is they are smart enough. Size doesn't matter a lot otherwise there'd be no israel on earth...it's all willingness to survive as the best.



Getting a bit deep aren't we? 

The Sri Lankans are brave, I commend them. 

The Pakistanis are cunning, and really know what they are doing in matters of security. But once again, their nukes does make India think twice before doing anything stupid. So that factor matters. 

The Israelis are damn smart. Just freaking genius. That's all I can say about them. And they have extremely powerful backers which makes them stronger. 

Does our current leadership matrix have any of those? No. We are stuck with the two battling begums, one who's insane and another who doesn't even have a high school degree. 

They simply have no strategy whatsoever in matter to anything. 



PlanetSoldier said:


> You yourself drew a longer list, then why are you saying our main concern is Myanmar? Does that mean we are no match, not capable in muscle power, so we'll escape the main point and start playing with false enemy? What real problem do we have with Myanmar? Well...you or many others will start arguing there sectarian riot, Nasaka/Police oppression over Rohingya etc. But I'd say it's their internal issue. We can give shelter those oppressed fellas and if possible help them covertly as there are many examples in the world like our 71. Trust me, no such internal issues have been solved by attacking rather covert actions have been taken and that without harming friendship. Also, there are much higher degree of torture going on inside india in Kashmir, NE states that don't see any media light by special act. Do we have any headache over that? No...we are after Myanmar coz we don't have the capability against our big friend.



Ah...Myanmar, Myanmar, Myanmar. Let's see...

See, back in 2011, Myanmar agreed to take back 28,000 Rohingya refugees. 
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/latest_news.php?nid=34209

Fine. And good for us. 

And now, the fighting is displacing over 30,000 people, coupled with dozens of deaths. And they claim that they are illegal immigrants from Bangladesh. And viewed with great hostility.

What is the hell going on here?  

The UN pressured us to take in more refugees. Okay, fine - and then what? Are the Burmese just going to keep throwing them out at us? Rule #1, refugees are never a permanent solution to anything. And no one right now it pressuring Myanmar over the issue. Perhaps the international community is being patient. The Drama Queen is tight lipped. 

See, by the time Myanmar opened its doors to the world, the Burmese clearly appear to have made a lot of enemies. More enemies than friends. And I fear we are one of them, and done so deliberately. 

Best to be wary about that country, and we must keep an extremely close eye on them. 

I wonder what Tien Sien would say after he visits Dhaka early next month. 



PlanetSoldier said:


> Many here are shouting to go military way or something like that against Myanmar for Rohingya issue but didn't see a Bangladeshi who is asking to save our own people at any cost who are dying everyday at border. To raise your voice against you don't need military match.
> 
> Myanmar had its proper lesson in 91 when they found locked from almost all side after a confrontation with BD, they'll not do something bad again unless their current master persuade them. But our main concern is no way Myanmar rather india at least before Myanmar does something that could be a cause of our concern and india has already done a lot that now should be every BD peoples' concern. Need a demo ? Just shoot 2 indian on border in response of killing one Bangladeshi, you will surely see what's the main concern of BD. By any means keeping mouth shut or escaping real thing isn't the right way.
> 
> BTW, we are on the same page regarding our leadership and diplomatic capability.



Never really said anything about militarily confronting Myanmar myself. Or even instigating a Jihadi insurgency (which was a very, very bad idea). 

Just to keep a very close eye on them, and better to see what's actually going on in their country. They are not allowing foreign media access to that region. That's all. And yes, we do need to beef up our air and naval capabilities. 

As for India....I don't know....if we shoot them, they'll shoot us more. They don't like to take the brunt of anything. Best is to get to the root of the problem, be it by pen or bullet. 

And yes, people have complained about the issue in media. But this government doesn't seem to care. According to one Penguin Party member, the incidents at the border are 'normal'. 

This country is technically going through administrative anarchy under the AL.

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## wild_fire1979

PlanetSoldier said:


> how much land of BD are currently under Myanmar occupation?



Are you implying that India holds BD land? Care to elaborate which part of India belongs to BD?


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## chisty_chowdhury

Moderator's Attention Needed.


This is a thread to discuss the so called advanced F-7BGI. So stop debating about india-myanmar-bangladesh land dispute.

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## PlanetSoldier

wild_fire1979 said:


> Are you implying that India holds BD land? *Care to elaborate which part of India belongs to BD?*



Meaningless to one with indian flag...might is right and the solution in this South Asia.


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## shree835

chisty_chowdhury said:


> Moderator's Attention Needed.
> 
> 
> This is a thread to discuss the so called *advanced F-7BGI*. So stop debating about india-myanmar-bangladesh land dispute.



Advanced Chinese F-7BGI...What is advance in that...???...I believe it is outdated...


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## shree835

Here Subject says Bangladesh ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter ...I believe Govt. wanted to order 7 F-16... by mistake word go reversed and they went to China.


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## shree835

Bangladesh decided to buy Chinese F-7, this is like a lottery for Chinese Aviation Industry.


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## Armstrong

shree835 said:


> Bangladesh decided to buy Chinese F-7, this is like a lottery for Chinese Aviation Industry.



16 F7s hardly sound like a lottery ?


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## shree835

Armstrong said:


> 16 F7s hardly sound like a lottery ?



I Believe 16 F-7 is totally unexpected order...even Chinese would have not expected this order...This is the reason why I said lottery for Chinese aviation Industry.


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## monitor

They have opened the production line for us . i don't understand why they didn't try to offer us their new FC-1/JF-17 fighter to us in ''friendly'' price . aren't the new JF-17 could provide us more future potential then F-7BGI . 

What my opinion in fighter procurement is 
we could buy Jf-17 to replace and supplement the F-7MG/BG A fourth generation fighter (and upgrade all our mg to bg or BGI standard )
get SU-30 to have a deep strike air superiority fighter a 4++ generation fighter 
J-10 to have a multi role interceptor and air superiority fighter 4.5 generation fighter


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## Luffy 500

monitor said:


> They have opened the production line for us . i don't understand why they didn't try to offer us their new FC-1/JF-17 fighter to us in ''friendly'' price . aren't the new JF-17 could provide us more future potential then F-7BGI .
> 
> What my opinion in fighter procurement is
> we could buy Jf-17 to replace and supplement the F-7MG/BG A fourth generation fighter (and upgrade all our mg to bg or BGI standard )
> get SU-30 to have a deep strike air superiority fighter a 4++ generation fighter
> J-10 to have a multi role interceptor and air superiority fighter 4.5 generation fighter



Do you think they will risk giving JF17 or J10 to some indian dalals. Why do you think awami dalals always have to go for russian?

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## eastwatch

No point in arguing against this procurement order of 16 units of F-7BGI BVR capable plane at this time. However, there is one point of consolation, these will not be BAF's main planes, rather they will take a secondary role. Every air force in the world has different planes with different functions. Moreover, BGIs are to replace the more outdated A-5s. 

BAF will purchase 16 Yak-130 and 8 units of Mig-29SMT. It is contemplating to buy also a sq. of Su-30MK2 planes under Russian $850 loan agreement. However, as these planes are inducted, BAF is busy on mobilizing the short range SAMs and train the operators. Shortly after that BAF will go for medium range SAMs and then hopefully the S-300. BAF has to do mnay things to improve both its defensive as well as offensive teeth. 

So, it will not stop at BGIs, it will go after 4+ and 4.5 generation fighter planes, the symptom of which can be seen in its induction of 16 units of Yak-130 training planes. A pilot can learn to operate a 4.5 generation fighter plane if he trains himself with this plane.

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## Major Shaheb

hasnain0099 said:


>



The stop-gap F-7BGI was sighted in China painted in light blue and white. Soon they will join BAF.

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## Major Shaheb




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## Zabaniyah

monitor said:


> They have opened the production line for us .* i don't understand why they didn't try to offer us their new FC-1/JF-17 fighter to us in ''friendly'' price .* aren't the new JF-17 could provide us more future potential then F-7BGI .
> 
> What my opinion in fighter procurement is
> we could buy Jf-17 to replace and supplement the F-7MG/BG A fourth generation fighter (and upgrade all our mg to bg or BGI standard )
> get SU-30 to have a deep strike air superiority fighter a 4++ generation fighter
> J-10 to have a multi role interceptor and air superiority fighter 4.5 generation fighter



Bangladesh is a candidate customer for the JF-17, if I am not mistaken.

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## Jobless Jack

Zabaniya said:


> Bangladesh is a candidate customer for the JF-17, if I am not mistaken.



so when do we get these migs sukhois JF's next year ? 5 years ? 10 years ?


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## Zabaniyah

Jobless Jack said:


> so when do we get these migs sukhois JF's next year ? 5 years ? 10 years ?



http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...an-frigates-8-russian-mig-29smt-fulcrums.html



> As of late 2010 there were reports that Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Group was negotiating with the Bangladesh Air Force for the sale of the JF-17 and the more modern F-10 fighter supply. But as of mid-2012 nothing had emerged on this front, and it appeared that Bangladesh Air Force would not procure the JF-17/FC-1 or J-10. Some observers suggested that the Chinese would not sell J-10 or JF-17 to an Awami governed Bangladesh, while if the BNP came into power they would scrap all the deals with Russia. Procurement will depend on which party is in power.
> 
> Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina on 05 December 2011 presided at the induction ceremony of surface-to-air missile system and Bangabandhu Aeronautical Centre at Kurmitola Air Force Base. The missile system of FM-90 category is a short-range air defence system (SHORADS). Hasina said one squadron F-7BGI fighter planes and some other helicopters are going to be included in the arsenal of the Air Force. Besides, procurement of several transports aircraft is also under consideration.
> 
> As of 2012 it was reported that in 2011 China had agreed to a $800 million arms sale, the details of which were made public in late April 2012. It includes 16 (a squadron) F-7 BGI fighter planes and radar equipment. One squadron of stop-gap light fighter Chengdu F-7BGI had been ordered for delivery in 2012. These aircraft were a new variant equipped with advanced avionics, including HOTAS Contol, three MFD display and HUD. The aircraft are equipped with both air-to-air and GPS guided munitions. These F-7s were ordered to replace the BAF's aging A-5Cs & f-7MBs and act as a 'stop gap'.
> 
> This 2011 Chinese deal was said to include three MI-171 helicopters. A total of 6 Mi-35 attack helicopters and 3 Mi-171sh support helicopters were reported to be inducted, without a clear timeline specified.
> 
> The existing Mig-29 inventory will be upgraded to Mig-29SMT standard. The air force will also acquire a squadron of Advanced Jet Trainer (AJT) to replace the existing L-39 inventory. Another [poorly attested as of early 2012] deal with Russia for about $850 million would supply a squadron of multi-role combat aircraft advanced jet trainers and radars. The Bangladesh Air Force was said to be signing a contract with Russia for 16 MiG-29SMT/M2 or 8 MiG-29SMT, one squadron of 16 Yak-130AJT to replace 16 L-39s and one squadron of the single engine Hongdu / Yakovlev L-7 (Yak-152) to replace the ageing fleet of PT-6 trainers. Within two years of receiving these aircraft, the Bangladesh Air Force was to introduce 16 SU-30MK2s.
> 
> The Forces Goal Vision 2030 is intended to enable the Bangladesh Air Force to be one of the most advanced outfits in the region, and to effectively provide a deterrent against the threats posed by neighboring countries.Air Marshal Shah Mohammad Ziaur Rahman, the Chief of Air Staff of the Bangladesh Air Force, discussed the BAF modernization program at the Defense IQ 2011 International Fighter Aircraft Conference in London. The long-term procurement program includes plans to eventually introduce 20-32 4+ generation fighter aircraft. At that time, the aircraft being evaluated were primarily the Mig-29CMT and Lockheed Martin F-16. The Sukhoi Su-30 and SAAB JAS-39 Gripen were also under consideration. The tiemframe for delievery was 10-15 years, that is, sometime between 2020 and 2025. It is not clear whether this program assumes that any of these aircraft will still be in production, or whether acqusition of used is contemplated.


Bangladesh - Air Force Modernization

All speculations for now

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## AUSTERLITZ

Bangladesh's potential adversary is myanmar?After the recent disputes?Or still dreaming of chicken's neck?


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## Zabaniyah

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Bangladesh's potential adversary is myanmar?After the recent disputes?Or still dreaming of chicken's neck?



BAF is a defensive air force.


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## eastwatch

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Bangladesh's potential adversary is myanmar?After the recent disputes?Or still dreaming of chicken's neck?



For Chicken Neck BA has more than 650 MBTs and other artilleries. Migs and SAMs will be supporting these land-based firing machines. A good general does not dream but always prepares for a sudden rainy day. BGIs are for the new advance airforce base in Cox's Bazaar that will defend our sky from the sudden mosquito bites from Burma.


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## MST

eastwatch said:


> For Chicken Neck BA has more than 650 MBTs and other artilleries. Migs and SAMs will be supporting these land-based firing machines. A good general does not dream but always prepares for a sudden rainy day. BGIs are for the new advance airforce base in Cox's Bazaar that will defend our sky from the sudden mosquito bites from Burma.



Really so Bangladesh Army with its super duper 650 MBT and countless artilleries, many many Migs and SAM will move into Chicken's neck (and lets assume you are able to cross the border considering Indian Army is almost non existent on Bangladeshi Border) do you really think Indian Navy will be sitting in vishakhapatnam port eating chana murmura. Why do you always forget that you people are so vulnerable from the sea. And the kind of Navy you have you don't have any hope.

Seriously now even the so called 'sane' bangladeshi members are resorting to ridiculous day dreaming.

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## MST

Luffy 500 said:


> Do you think they will risk giving JF17 or J10 to some indian dalals. Why do you think awami dalals always have to go for russian?



The same super duper secret figher plan JF 17 which the chinese are willing to sell to any and every country that is showing interest in them right from Azerbaijan to Zimbabwe but is too sensitive for Bangladesh. Must really suck to be a Bangladeshi 

By the way did the F7 BGI come from Russia?

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## gslv mk3

eastwatch said:


> For Chicken Neck BA has more than 650 MBTs and other artilleries. Migs and SAMs will be supporting these land-based firing machines. A good general does not dream but always prepares for a sudden rainy day. BGIs are for the new advance airforce base in Cox's Bazaar that will defend our sky from the sudden mosquito bites from Burma.




Migs!!!reversed engineered mig????

Daydreams!!!


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## Zabaniyah

MST said:


> By the way did the F7 BGI come from Russia?



No, it's Chinese.

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## AUSTERLITZ

Wouldn't it have been better to have obtained have high end SAMS instead,they are cheaper and u would get state of the art equipment for the same price.


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## eastwatch

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Wouldn't it have been better to have obtained have high end SAMS instead,they are cheaper and u would get state of the art equipment for the same price.



We will defend our land from enemy planes with both SAMs and Interceptor planes. But, we will also attack the enemy land-based assets with our bombers like F-7BGI. BGI is fitted with Lesser Guided Bombs (LGB). It will not be our end purchasing and we will certainly purchase more advanced planes probably from Russia. 

We have already ordered/purchased 16 YAK-130 Training Planes from Russia. Taking training in this plane will enable our pilots to operate 4.5 generation fighters that we will buy next. Lack of trained pilots may be one reason that BAF did not buy 4.5 generation plane this time.

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## MST

Zabaniya said:


> No, it's Chinese.



I know. That one was for LUffy


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## Zabaniyah

AUSTERLITZ said:


> Wouldn't it have been better to have obtained have high end SAMS instead,they are cheaper and u would get state of the art equipment for the same price.







© Defence Power Of Bangladesh

The middle one is an LY-60D. I believe the other is the stationary version. 


>





>



Images taken from Aussie Air Power magazine. 
PLA Mechanised Infantry Division Air Defence Systems / PLA Point Defence Systems

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## shuttler

Testing of the F-7 before final delivery (pix taken on Nov 27):











More of the pix here:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangladesh-defence/153606-bangladesh-eyes-china-arms.html

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## bdslph

same name Thundercat and the camo look more like the old F7 mg models 
but waiting to see it soon


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## Banglar Lathial

PlanetSoldier said:


> Why do we need a matching military with india? Even Sri Lanka is now raising voice against them, do they possess a matching military with india? Geographically they are more vulnerable to india than us. We have in the neighborhood some other nations but Sri Lanka is completely isolated. Anytime an indian naval blockade can shut their mouth. Again, look at Pakistan...does its force match in military strength of india based on number other than that nuke? Only thing is they are smart enough. Size doesn't matter a lot otherwise there'd be no israel on earth...it's all willingness to survive as the best.
> 
> You yourself drew a longer list, then why are you saying our main concern is Myanmar? Does that mean we are no match, not capable in muscle power, so we'll escape the main point and start playing with false enemy? What real problem do we have with Myanmar? Well...you or many others will start arguing there sectarian riot, Nasaka/Police oppression over Rohingya etc. But I'd say it's their internal issue. We can give shelter those oppressed fellas and if possible help them covertly as there are many examples in the world like our 71. Trust me, no such internal issues have been solved by attacking rather covert actions have been taken and that without harming friendship. Also, there are much higher degree of torture going on inside india in Kashmir, NE states that don't see any media light by special act. Do we have any headache over that? No...we are after Myanmar coz we don't have the capability against our big friend.
> 
> Many here are shouting to go military way or something like that against Myanmar for Rohingya issue but didn't see a Bangladeshi who is asking to save our own people at any cost who are dying everyday at border. To raise your voice against you don't need military match.
> 
> Myanmar had its proper lesson in 91 when they found locked from almost all side after a confrontation with BD, they'll not do something bad again unless their current master persuade them. But our main concern is no way Myanmar rather india at least before Myanmar does something that could be a cause of our concern and india has already done a lot that now should be every BD peoples' concern. Need a demo ? Just shoot 2 indian on border in response of killing one Bangladeshi, you will surely see what's the main concern of BD. By any means keeping mouth shut or escaping real thing isn't the right way.
> 
> BTW, we are on the same page regarding our leadership and diplomatic capability.





He is a "wuss" to put it politely. 

The Hindostanis are no match for us. 2001 border conflict is ample proof. If we had thought like these wusses, we would have been defeated in 2001. We need to eliminate the 'wusses' from our midst, this forum is not the best place to discuss these issues because the Hindostanis and their BAL-agents alongside "wusses" have infested this forum. There is hardly any room for factual or logical discussion. 

There is no logical reason any "wuss" should discuss in a military forum. We can not only defeat the Hindostanis, but expand our frontiers to any extent that we like to keep Hindutva terror in check. The problem is a lot (millions) of Bangladeshis are Hindostani agents (e.g. a certain minority with allegiance to Hindostan, BAL - agents of Hindostan, "fowl supplier" "Ghadani committee" members Shahriar Kabir etc) and a lot of others are American agents (e.g. they live in America, and singing their praise in every thread, probably because they have to please their American masters), and so they are afraid to speak out the truth - that Americans are devils and aligning with China is in the best interests of Bangladesh, come what may (so to speak). 

These cowards, probably in order to please their American lords, go on and on about "India" being some sort of a rival to China, and name China and that fake country created by Britain in 1947 in the same breath. That is an abominable act, redolent of all the "Oomi Chand" and "Jogoth Shaeth"s currying favours with the Brits.


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