# Firing at a Gurudwara in US, several people shot



## Executioner

> Wisconsin: At least four people have reportedly been shot at a Gurudwada in Oak Creek in Wisconsin, according to local media. However, casualties have not been reported as yet.
> 
> Reports suggest a police officer was among the wounded.
> 
> The suspect is still absconding and was last seen, reportedly, with two guns. According to reports, a witness told officers that the suspect was a white male, with a heavy build, bald head and a sleeveless T-shirt.
> 
> Mutual aid has been called in from all jurisdictions including the Racine Fire Department.



Source

Really What is happening ?


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## Abu Zolfiqar

thats not goood


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## Windjammer

Several injured in Wisconsin gurudwara shooting

PTI

About eight to 20 people were on Sunday injured in a shooting that took place at a gurudwara in Wisconsin, according to media reports.

The shooting occurred at around 11 a.m. (local time) on Sunday at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, the Milwaukee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel reported.

Oak Creek police, the Milwaukee County Sheriffs Department and other law enforcement agencies have responded.

The police has not given out any further details.

Initial reports said a witness to the shooting told law enforcement agents that the shooter was a heavy build, bald white male wearing a sleeveless T-shirt.

He was last seen with two handguns.


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## harpoon

Who is the culprit?


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## RazPaK

Skinheads/Neo Nazis.


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## Fred

harpoon said:


> Who is the culprit?


 
Need to Establish it...


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## Emmie

Wish speedy recovery for injured, hope no life is lost. Culprits must be brought to the justice.


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## mjnaushad

wish quick recovery for the injured......any info onthe shooter and hia motive...


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## Android

RIP to the dead


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## Fred

4 People are Reportedly Shot and Culprits are Absconding...


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## Sashan

Watching CNN. Hostage situation exists. No casualities reported though people were shot.

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## Jango

What is happening within the US? Terrorists on a rampage, loose gun laws.


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## harpoon

RazPaK said:


> Skinheads/Neo Nazis.



Or just a lunatic with a gun just like what happened at the 'Batman' shooting.


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## Punjabbi Munda

Firing at a holy place,looks like a lunatic's case and another example of the gun culture!

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## Sashan

They are talking about multiple gunmen.


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## Damadji

RIP

God help the injured.

Indian are the most peace loving people we need another campaign to spread the awareness about Indians and Sikhs.

So that we are not clubbed with other south asians and Taliban

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## Patriot

Damadji said:


> RIP
> 
> God help the injured.
> 
> Indian are the most peace loving people we need another campaign to spread the awareness about Indians and Sikhs.
> 
> So that we are not clubbed with other south asians and Taliban


Yeah - It would be okay if they kill innocent Muslim who is in no way connected with terrorism?Just goes to show your bigotry.

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## Sashan

At least 20 people are feared injured in a shooting at a Sikh temple outside of Milwaukee in the US state of Wisconsin, according to local media reports.

Stephanie Uljanec, Oak Creek police department dispatcher, confirmed the shooting took place on Sunday morning at the gurudwara, but said she did not know how many people were shot or if there were any fatalities.

A witness who sent a text message to a local reporter of the Journal Sentinel said two alleged shooters were possibly still inside the temple, holding children as hostages.

There are also reports that the head priest was locked inside a restroom with a cellphone and said there are as many as 30 victims in temple.

Oak Creek is south of Milwaukee along Lake Michigan.

Fran McLaughlin, spokeswoman for the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department, said a call came in at 10:26am local time. She said officers were at the scene but she had no other information to report.


Shooting reported at US Sikh temple - Americas - Al Jazeera English

At least four people were shot just after 10 a.m. Sunday at the Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, *and a police SWAT team entered the building before noon and brought uninjured people out of the building at 7512 S. Howell Ave.
*Victims were being taken out of the temple.

Among those who were shot was the president of the temple.

People were in the temple as early as 6:30 a.m. Sunday and many more were arriving for a service that was to begin about 11:30 a.m.

There were reports that children were taken to the building's basement after shots were fired.

Someone who sent a text message to a Journal Sentinel reporter shortly before noon said that there were two shooters with children possibly as hostages.

And the head priest was locked inside a restroom with a cell phone and that there were as many as 20 to 30 victims.

*One of the temple's committee members, Ven Boba Ri, said that based on communication with people inside the temple, the shooter was a white male in his 30s.*

"We have no idea," he said of the motive. "It's pretty much a hate crime. It's not an insider."

According to Ri, the man started shooting after he walked up to a priest who was standing outside, and shot him.

Then he went inside and started shooting.

People inside the temple were using cell phones to call people outside, saying please send help, Ri said.

"It's sad, I don't know how to describe it," said Ri, who has been fielding calls all morning from around the world, including India.

"Sikhism is such a peaceful religion. We have suffered for generations, in India and even here."

"We're all the same. Everybody has the same blood," said temple member Jaswinder Schandock.

Groups of temple members were gathered, on cell phones, conferring in small groups and watching from afar. 

Oak Creek police were not giving out any information at this point.

Numerous police agencies had responded to scene to assist Oak Creek, including the Milwaukee County Sheriff's Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

At least two dozen ambulances responded, including from Oak Creek, Caledonia, North Shore Fire, Greenfield and West Allis. Those ambulances had moved to the temple about 12:40 p.m.

As of about 12:30 p.m., the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's Office said it had not been called to the scene.

Meanwhile, Brookfield police officers were dispatched to the Sikh Temple at 3675 N. Calhoun Road as a precaution in the aftermath of the Oak Creek shooting.

At least three squads were at the temple in Waukesha County.

About 50 people were at the Brookfield temple for a morning service and many of them went outside after they learned of the shooting in Oak Creek.


At least four shot at Sikh Temple, victims being taken out - JSOnline


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## RazPaK

HATE CRIME=SKIN HEAD/NEO NAZI


As usual I am right.

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## Safriz

harpoon said:


> Or just a lunatic with a gun just like what happened at the 'Batman' shooting.


 
Oh yes...never mind...lets get apologetic as the shooter was a white american....

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## RazPaK

WHITE PAWR!!!



Safriz said:


> Oh yes...never mind...lets get apologetic as the shooter was a white american....



LOLz right. Like the fact that he shot up a Gurdwara isn't conspicuous enough.


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## harpoon

Safriz said:


> Oh yes...never mind...lets get apologetic as the shooter was a white american....



Whats wrong with probing all angles?


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## RazPaK

harpoon said:


> Whats wrong with probing all angles?



Because a Gurdwara isn't a "secular" place like a movie theater.


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## Fred

US Media has been told not to broadcast the Action which US Authority are taking...


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## Sashan

Police update from CNN - Requesting not to broadcast any footage. An officer was shot multiple times but expected to survive. He shot a gunman in turn and that gunman was arrested. No suspect information or victim information available.


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## Fred

One Suspect has been Shot down


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## INDIAISM

It looks Bad Economy is effecting Americans Mind.....Btw these kind of attacks are going diminish America image in front of the world


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## Mirza Jatt

May Waheguruji be with our brothers and sisters in Wisconsin and keep them safe.......***Satnam Sri Waheguruji***

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## harpoon

INDIAISM said:


> It looks Bad Economy is effecting Americans Mind...



They are much better off than other countries like Greece.


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## Executioner

Fcuking Shot gun pretty used in U.S, They play too much Resident Evil

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## Sashan

The hospitals near the Gurdwara were asked to make preparation to accomodate upto 30. So the no. of hostages seem to be around 30.

Froedtert Hospital says it's already treating 3 male patients in critical condition

Most recent from CNN - 1 dead, 2 wounded. (not to confuse with 3 others admitted in the Froedtert hospital)

RIP to the dead.


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## RazPaK

Immigrants need to stick to the coasts to be safe. Middle America isn't a place I would ever want to go.


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## Karachiite

Right to Bear Arms................


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## Abingdonboy

RazPaK said:


> Because a Gurdwara isn't a "secular" place like a movie theater.



A Gurdwara is open to everyone regardless of colour, religion or caste- the emtimiy of secularism.




I bet it is more ignorant aholes confusing Sikhs and Taliban just like what happened after 9/11 in US and 7/7 in UK when ignorant idiots attacked Sikhs and Gurdwaras not realising Sikhs have NOTHING to do with Islam. The Sikhs are a peace lobing people who try to work hard and get on with everyone. Same goes for majority of Muslims, effing idiots- much more needs to be done to teach people the differences between religions and give an in-depth education about Sikhs. Hatred is borne from ignorance.

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## Sashan

If someone is interested in twitter feeds for the shooting.

Twitter


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## Karachiite

Abingdonboy said:


> A Gurdwara is open to everyone regardless of colour, religion or caste- the emtimiy of secularism.
> .



Yeah thats true, I got free food at a Gurdwara once.

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## harpoon

Karachiite said:


> Right to Bear Arms................



Its the people who is the problem, not the arms.


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## Abingdonboy

harpoon said:


> Its the people who is the problem, not the arms.



I'm sorry but the whole "it's not guns that kill people, people kill people" is utter BS used by gun activists to justify their views. What civilised nation allows civiians with little to no training to go around with guns strapped to their hips or with automatic assualt rifles in their homes or cars? Utter lunacy. Yes one can never rule out the fact that a certain percentage of people in a nation are always going to be prone to such acts of violence so coupling this factor with ridicuusly loos gun control is INSANE! No one _needs_
an assualt rifle or a high powered pistol or even a 9mm handgun it just isn't needed.



US is a joke in this sense, the number speak for themselves- in excess of 10,000 people killed by guns every yer in US, 60% of all guns made and bought in the world are bought in the US the list goes on and on.

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## harpoon

^^ If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

As for gun ownership, every Swiss citizen is obliged to have an assault rifle stored in their home. How many gun related deaths are reported there?


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## Sashan

4 dead inside, 3 dead outside including the gunman.


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## Prometheus

RazPaK said:


> Because a Gurdwara isn't a "secular" place like a movie theater.


 
a gurudawara is a secular place..............anyone can come , eat in community kitchen, stay for the night and even can do prayers of his own faith.

nobody will do anything


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## Mirza Jatt

R.I.P.....


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## Sashan

RIP to the dead.


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## Mirza Jatt

Its the culture...not people..not the guns.

I know people with guns who do not kill innocent lives
I know guns do not fire themselves

Its the culture.....

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## Paan Singh

This is rubbish...may be relating sikhs wid 9/11 ..


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## Chinese-Dragon

When I was in secondary school, we had a class trip to a Sikh Temple in Wan Chai (that's in Hong Kong).

The Sikhs were very good to us students, and even gave us free food when we went inside.

It is a disgrace that *anyone* would want to shoot up a Sikh Temple.



Sashan said:


> 4 dead inside, 3 dead outside including the gunman.



RIP to the dead.

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## Paan Singh

*They do not yet have any information on the suspect and how many people have been injured. About 300 to 400 people were reported to be at the Gurudwara, which was built about 6-7 years ago, and is spread over an expansive area.

More than a dozen ambulances have been parked outside the temple.

A Sikh priest had specially come from India to address the gathering on Sunday.

Media reports said about 12 children have been held hostages. The president of the temple is also reportedly shot and has been rushed to the hospital, they said.

A police spokesman said a law enforcement officer was shot multiple times by the unidentified shooter, who was "put down". It was not immediately known if the shooter was injured or killed.

"We do not know if there are additional shooters at the temple," he said. The officer has been transported to hospital and was expected to survive.

The spokesman said tactical operations are ongoing and that the situation was "very fluid".

Police said another shooter could be inside the Gurudwara.

According to the Milwaukee Sentinel, the head priest of the Gurudwara was locked inside a restroom with a cell phone. *


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## FRANCIS

Cnn reports seven dead including the gunman . RIP

What might have been the motive of this hate filled gunman to kill members of such a peaceful community ??
My guess Racism !!


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## gubbi

Revise gun control laws NOW!! This is insane!

RIP to the dead. Good job by the cop who shot the killer despite having been shot multiple times. Speedy recovery to him.


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## david blain

The Hindu


At least six persons have been killed and several injured, some critically by one or more gunmen at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin, a gurudwara, in what appeared to be a hate crime in Oak Creek, a quiet suburb of Milwaukee.


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## Mercenary

RIP to the Dead 

Gunman, six others dead at Wisconsin Sikh temple - CNN.com

(CNN) -- At least seven people, including a gunman shot by a police officer, have been killed in an attack on worshippers at a Sikh temple in the Milwaukee suburb of Oak Creek, Wisconsin, on Sunday, police said.

The officer was wounded but "returned fire, and that shooter was put down," said Bradley Wentlandt, the police chief in nearby Greenfield, who briefed reporters. Investigators who picked through the building afterward found four bodies inside the temple and two other victims outside, plus the gunman, Wentlandt said.

Though early reports had suggested there may have been more than one attacker, he said officers had not identified any other gunmen.

The wounded officer, a 20-year veteran, was in surgery Sunday afternoon after being shot multiple times, but was expected to survive, Wentlandt said. He was sent to the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek, south of Milwaukee, after a 911 call about 10:25 a.m. (11:25 a.m. ET).

Carolyn Bellin, a spokeswoman for Milwaukee's Froedtert Hospital, said one of three men brought there from the incident was in surgery early Sunday morning, while another was in the surgical intensive care unit. The third was being evaluated in the emergency room. All three were in critical condition.

The temple has a congregation of 250 to 400, according to its website.

"I just want to say this temple was built a number of years ago and there have never been any problems with this temple," Oak Creek Alderman Dan Jakubczyk


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## COLDHEARTED AVIATOR

Sad.......RIP!


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## Peaceful Civilian

Bad news, RIP!!


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## Irfan Baloch

rest easy guys

before blaming it on Muslims or ISI

read this out about the identity of attackers


*At least two reports from inside the temple suggest the perpetrator or perpetrators were white and male.*

BBC News - 'Seven killed' in Wisconsin Sikh temple shooting









Police urged media at the scene not to broadcast aerial footage that could compromise their operation


"if it was Pakistani media, it would have done the opposite and blown the cover of operation.


by the way rest in peace to the dead and thank goodness it was most likely a white supremacist attack and nothing to suggest an Islamic terrorism (as the west coins it) otherwise all anti Muslim blowhards would have been barking mad by now

shame that I have to say that. for the dead and grieving it doesnt really matter who were their culprits because that doesnt ease their pain if the killers were just "confused or angry" white American patriots , not "fanatic Muslims"


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## Surenas

Quickly reminds to the case of Balbir Singh Sodhi. A sikh who was killed a couple of days after the 9/11 attacks simply because he was mistaken for a muslim.

Murder of Balbir Singh Sodhi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## RKhan

^ You didn't have to try to flamebait with whole "Easy guys before you blame muslims or ISI".

Anyway the current scoop is that he was dropped of by a car which sped away. 3 people were shot outside the entrance and 3 inside.



RIP to the victims and the police officer


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## raavan

I dont understand when some sikhs say that we are not muslims as if it would have been alright if this crime was committed against muslims.....

I effing hate religion ...it always divide us ....even in these worst of circumstances which should bring us together

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## IndoUS

So far I am not hearing any new information on the news, the channels are still giving very little information. So far they are showing 25 people are shot but no report on their conditions. Hope they get out. RIP to the dead.


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## KRAIT

RIP............

Hate crime....BTW why people are trying to see Muslim and Islamic angle ? 

These type of spree killers are not new in US. Its one of the few incidents where Sikhs or foreign nationals/ origin are involved.

These perpetrators have twisted logic. Did we forget that shooter in the cinema hall showing The Dark Night Rises ? 

Wait for concrete information to be released then making accusations or blaming others because of prejudice.


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## Irfan Baloch

raavan said:


> I dont understand when some sikhs say that we are not muslims as if it would have been alright if this crime was committed against muslims.....
> 
> I effing hate religion ...it always divide us ....even in these worst of circumstances which should bring us together



exactly my dear 

I see the irony here

the Sikhs had to cry and march after 9/11 related shooting that we are not Muslims
and the media started mourning that the dead were mistaken identity as if it would have been "understandable" or fine even if the killed were Muslims.. there was no condemnation on the killing and the focus remained on seeking blood revenge for the main twin tower atrocity.

till now, the Police is keeping the identity of slain gunman secret and wants to raid his apartment to figure out the motive and any possible accomplice, it suggests that he is not identified as a Muslim so the AQ/ ISI link has to be "sadly" ruled out.

by the way, in the end I must say... please dont hate the religion... those killed might have died due to the different pigment of their skin and their race. nothing that was their fault.. maybe blame and hate the mother nature for making us different?

man is very imaginative and creative my dear, he will always find reasons to hate and wage war. the biggest murderers of present and fear past all happen to be non-religious examples are many from East to West.

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## RazPaK

raavan said:


> I dont understand when some sikhs say that we are not muslims as if it would have been alright if this crime was committed against muslims.....
> 
> I effing hate religion ...it always divide us ....even in these worst of circumstances which should bring us together



Thanks bro. I appreciate what you wrote. My heart goes out to the victims.


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## joekrish

RIP........


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## Anish1

The americans are still confusing sikhs for muslims.
how sad. sigh.


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## KRAIT

raavan said:


> I dont understand when some sikhs say that we are not muslims as if it would have been alright if this crime was committed against muslims.....
> 
> I effing hate religion ...it always divide us ....even in these worst of circumstances which should bring us together


Its more to do with the paranoia and prejudice of the west wrt Muslims. The way Muslims are projected in every news by the west makes things worse. Try to understand the psyche of insecure and paranoid Western people.

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## Irfan Baloch

RKhan said:


> ^ You didn't have to try to flamebait with whole "Easy guys before you blame muslims or ISI".



beg to disagree my dearest

its a natural defence mechanism... all Muslims are made to feel guilty for terrorist acts of AQ and its clones and we always take a sign of relief when the narrative suddenly changes to "a lone confused" gunman be it America or Norway. but if its some Muslim then his roots are traced back to Gen Kyani and ISI and then the rants start on Quran, Islam and Muhammad PBUH.

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## Jackdaws

I really can't understand how anyone can just pull a trigger and start taking human lives. There is something absurd in American society - their unhealthy love for guns is downright insane.


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## RazPaK

Anish9500 said:


> The americans are still confusing sikhs for muslims.
> how sad. sigh.



You are an idiot. They would have killed them anyway.

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## mjnaushad

Anish9500 said:


> The americans are still confusing sikhs for muslims.
> how sad. sigh.




lets assume it was a mosque then you'll call this act justifide....... ???


 
full details are not out yet but your stupidity all ready reaching new heights..

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## cloud_9

Photos From The Scene In Wisconsin


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## RazPaK

Jackdaws said:


> I really can't understand how anyone can just pull a trigger and start taking human lives. There is something absurd in American society - their unhealthy love for guns is downright insane.



It's not the guns. It's the skinhead/neo nazi movements. They incite violence. As more details are revealed I will be right. And they are against the Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Muslims, and anyone that is not "WHITE".

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## Desert Fox

Just another excuse for the gov.t to take away the law abiding citizen's right to bear arms.


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## KRAIT

Desert Fox said:


> Just another excuse for the gov.t to take away the law abiding citizen's right to bear arms.


Its embedded in their society. It can't be controlled or taken out of them. Its centuries old tradition. From the days of wild wild west.


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## Desert Fox

Jackdaws said:


> I really can't understand how anyone can just pull a trigger and start taking human lives. There is something absurd in American society


Perhaps you should ask your own countrymen who in the thread on Assam Riots were fantasizing how they wanted to butcher all of the Bangali immigrants.



Jackdaws said:


> - their unhealthy love for guns is downright insane.


Nope, actually its nothing to do with guns. More people are shot in NYC where guns are highly illegal and no one is even allowed to own one, while in states where there are more legal guns per person crime rate is considerably low.


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## Jackdaws

RazPaK said:


> It's not the guns. It's the skinhead/neo nazi movements. They incite violence. As more details are revealed I will be right. And they are against the Blacks, Mexicans, Jews, Muslims, and anyone that is not "WHITE".



Yes, but the easy availability of guns sure help. I remember the Columbine massacre in '99 - the kids walked into a K-Mart and bought the bullets with which they mowed down their schoolmates. I don't have a problem with hate groups exercising their right to freedom of thought and expression - I don't like them but everyone is entitled to their views - however warped they might be. It is the freaking gun culture which is a problem.

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## Desert Fox

KRAIT said:


> Its embedded in their society. It can't be controlled or taken out of them. Its centuries old tradition. From the days of wild wild west.



Then you should follow up on current events related to American politics and how they are slowly and steadily ingraining into the minds of the younger generations to be anti-2nd amendment as well as passing bills that are making gun ownership even more difficult.


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## RazPaK

Jackdaws said:


> Yes, but the easy availability of guns sure help. I remember the Columbine massacre in '99 - the kids walked into a K-Mart and bought the bullets with which they mowed down their schoolmates. I don't have a problem with hate groups exercising their right to freedom of thought and expression - I don't like them but everyone is entitled to their views - however warped they might be. It is the freaking gun culture which is a problem.



I guess you would be in support of Al Qaeda having the freedom to spread their ideology as well, then?


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## Jackdaws

Desert Fox said:


> Just another excuse for the gov.t to take away the law abiding citizen's right to bear arms.



Yea - I am sure if you were around in the Lincoln era you would be moaning about the government using excuses to take away the law abiding citizen's right to own slaves.


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## KRAIT

Desert Fox said:


> Then you should follow up on current events related to American politics and how they are slowly and steadily ingraining into the minds of the younger generations to be anti-2nd amendment as well as passing bills that are making gun ownership even more difficult.


I am not saying whether they are doing something or not. Its about the basic nature of the West. You can bring these changes gradually but to take out something negative is sometimes more difficult to incept something good/ 

People with violent mindset will find the way out to commit crimes. Ownership laws are for those general people but for criminals, it doesn't matter. You can reduce the flow of weapons and bullets, but it will take certain time to see any significant effect.


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## Jackdaws

RazPaK said:


> I guess you would be in support of Al Qaeda having the freedom to spread their ideology as well, then?



Actually, yes. I don't really distinguish between the ideology of Al Qaeda, the Ku Klux Klan or the BNP or the Chinese Politburo. If they want to spread it, sure by all means - spread your ideology. The problem begins when you start taking human lives - if you ram a plane into the WTC - or if you lynch a black man for fun - you are not spreading your ideology - you are committing acts of terror.

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## Desert Fox

Jackdaws said:


> Yea - I am sure if you were around in the Lincoln era you would be moaning about the government using excuses to take away the law abiding citizen's right to own slaves.



Only 12-15 percent of the Southern White population owned slaves before the outbreak of the civil war. BTW, what the hell does slavery have to do with what i'm talking about?

Secondly, its nothing to do with guns. More people are shot in NYC where guns are highly illegal and no one is even allowed to own one, while in states where there are more legal guns per person crime rate is considerably low.

Thirdly, i don't own any guns, but as a American who believes and supports the Constitutional rights of every American citizen i support the second amendment.


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## Jackdaws

Desert Fox said:


> Perhaps you should ask your own countrymen who in the thread on Assam Riots were fantasizing how they wanted to butcher all of the Bangali immigrants.
> 
> 
> Nope, actually its nothing to do with guns. More people are shot in NYC where guns are highly illegal and no one is even allowed to own one, while in states where there are more legal guns per person crime rate is considerably low.



Sure - let me know who said that, I will ask them.


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## neutral_person

RIP to the dead

Never feels good when innocent people die, whether it is Hindus or Sikhs or Muslims or Christians or Jews or Parsis or Atheists or any other religious group. Hope justice id delivered.


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## KRAIT

Desert Fox said:


> A criminal can kill a group of people by simply driving a van over them while they are standing in the side walk, actually more people are killed in car accidents, most of which involve drunk driving. Why can't they ban alcohol and cars?


Aren't there laws against drinking and driving. Don't they punish them with charges like manslaughter ? You are comparing guns with Cars and Alcohol. So according to you owning a bottle of wine and a car is potential threat to everyone and there should be control over it. Thorough background check should be done before one sell Jack Daniels or a Chevy ?

Both are totally different scenarios altogether, you are trying to find a correlation that's not even there. But lets remain on the topic.


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## Jackdaws

Desert Fox said:


> Only 12-15 percent of the Southern White population owned slaves before the outbreak of the civil war.
> 
> Secondly, its nothing to do with guns. More people are shot in NYC where guns are highly illegal and no one is even allowed to own one, while in states where there are more legal guns per person crime rate is considerably low.
> 
> Thirdly, i don't own any guns, but as a American who believes and supports the Constitutional rights of every American citizen i support the second amendment.



12-15% of people owning slaves is fine??

It was once a right to own slaves. But laws have to change with the times. 

NYC can't be compared to Pleasantville, Alabama. 

You have a right to support it I guess. So by all means do so.


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## karan21

Gurdwara is place to sit together and pray to god, not to phucking kill each other. I hate when these things happen.


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## KRAIT

Don't bring Bangladesh, 1971, Assam riots or what not. Why every thread has to end up with these posts in the end ?


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## Jackdaws

neutral_person said:


> Well we provided asylum to those Bangladeshi migrants in 1971, and now they start riots killing the very people who sheltered them from the Pakistani Army in 1971. Of course people are going to be frustrated, and the reaction is what you see. Nevertheless, in the Assam riots a huge chunk of the people who died in Assam are the native Bodos, the difference I guess is while some of us might talk of killing, these Bangladeshi migrants are actually doing the killing of the native Bodos in Assam.



No one migrates illegally because they want to - they usually do so because they have to. You can't go around killing people because you think they emigrated illegally.


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## Irfan Baloch

RazPaK said:


> I guess you would be in support of Al Qaeda having the freedom to spread their ideology as well, then?



he touched an excellent point.. you missed it and took it the wrong way

Western society prides itself for freedom of expression that is ... (key word coming).... NON Violent.
they can go to hide park or on a town square make a speech , pass leaflets and thats it. as far as that remains within only talking or taking part in elections on that anti immigration anti multinational theme then its fine.

problem is (like AQ) when they go down the violent path



Jackdaws said:


> Yes, but the easy availability of guns sure help. I remember the Columbine massacre in '99 - the kids walked into a K-Mart and bought the bullets with which they mowed down their schoolmates. I don't have a problem with hate groups exercising their right to freedom of thought and expression - I don't like them but everyone is entitled to their views - however warped they might be. It is the freaking gun culture which is a problem.



I understand your point.
thats what KKK or BNP etc do. they make their silly marches and have their extremist views and web forums but thats it.
they are not involved in mass killing at a grand scale like Al Qaeda and its clone organisations are.

we both will be revolted and dispise their sick ideology and beliefs but its good that they can vent it out openly and be done with it rather than going underground and finding excuses or reasons for taking it on a violent level.

I guess this is the issue with the third word where even the simple dissent is brutally suppressed and it takes a violent turn.

I dont want to go out of scope but as I am still unaware of the identity of the gunman, his race religion and his motives I am only speculating that he is some misguided white supremacist who either mistook those Sikhs for Muslims or went ahead knowingly on the general maxim of "well they all look alike".

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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Perhaps you should ask your own countrymen who in the thread on Assam Riots were fantasizing how they wanted to butcher all of the Bangali immigrants.
> 
> 
> Nope, actually its nothing to do with guns. More people are shot in NYC where guns are highly illegal and *no one is even allowed to own one*, while in states where there are more legal guns per person crime rate is considerably low.



Yes we are my uncle has a gun. Where do you see this? All states have different laws legislating gun ownership but no state can ban them outright or they are violating the constitution.


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## Desert Fox

KRAIT said:


> Aren't there laws against drinking and driving. Don't they punish them with charges like manslaughter ? You are comparing guns with Cars and Alcohol. So according to you owning a bottle of wine and a car is potential threat to everyone and there should be control over it. Thorough background check should be done before one sell Jack Daniels or a Chevy ?


Yes why not, that is exactly what i'm saying. If more people are killed due to drunk driving and car accidents then yes.



KRAIT said:


> Both are totally different scenarios altogether, you are trying to find a correlation that's not even there. But lets remain on the topic.


No they aren't different at all, a gun is just an inanimate object just like a bottle of liquor or a car is.


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## KingMamba

Jackdaws said:


> *Yes, but the easy availability of guns sure help.* I remember the Columbine massacre in '99 - the kids walked into a K-Mart and bought the bullets with which they mowed down their schoolmates. I don't have a problem with hate groups exercising their right to freedom of thought and expression - I don't like them but everyone is entitled to their views - however warped they might be. It is the freaking gun culture which is a problem.



Let me tell you something about that right there. Most people who want to commit a crime here in the US obtain the gun in an illegal way through the black market, or a loophole like gun shows. Trying to remove the 2nd amendment that grants ordinary citizens the right to purchase guns to protect themselves will only make them more vulnerable to the crazies who go around the law.


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## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> Yes we are my uncle has a gun. Where do you see this? All states have different laws legislating gun ownership but no state can ban them outright or they are violating the constitution.



In NYC you need a valid reason to own a gun like being in the law enforcement or owning a store (i believe) otherwise you are subjected to extensive search and regulations.

You can't even carry a simple folding pocket knife, not even a pepper spray, my friends pepper spray was confiscated from him by the cops.


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## KRAIT

Desert Fox said:


> No they aren't different at all, a gun is just an inanimate object just like a bottle of liquor or a car is.


Not different ? Sir, what are the basic utilities of a gun, alcohol and a car ?

Gun: For self protection or aggression, if used , involves injuries and death. For few its a hobby. A object which is based on fear of death.

Alcohol : Just a drink which if taken in excessive may be fatal.

Car: For transportation and if driven wrong, can cause accidents and death.

You see the prime objectives and rationale behind owning these things.

These guns are part of US society. You are talking about NYC. What about Texas or other states ? Thousands of homicides every year all over US. You can't take a single city to cast a strategy for 50 states.

With guns, come the natural behavior of hunting or enjoying, and people who has some idiotic agenda and reasons, use it.

Look at all spree killers in history of US. According to their time, laws were strict too, but doesn't the crime rate increased. More strict you make a society, more susceptible you make it to black market products which you can't have any record.


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## RKhan

Irfan Baloch said:


> beg to disagree my dearest
> 
> its a natural defence mechanism... all Muslims are made to feel guilty for terrorist acts of AQ and its clones and we always take a sign of relief when the narrative suddenly changes to "a lone confused" gunman be it America or Norway. but if its some Muslim then his roots are traced back to Gen Kyani and ISI and then the rants start on Quran, Islam and Muhammad PBUH.



True, I think the media and current events have put the Muslim community on edge and has made them more defensive


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Then you should follow up on current events related to American politics and how *they* are slowly and steadily ingraining into the minds of the younger generations to be anti-2nd amendment as well as passing bills that are making gun ownership even more difficult.



Agreed whole heartily. They being the liberals in this case though as the far right republicans would never advocate something like this. It is not even about lowering gun crimes because like I said most guns used in crimes are obtained illegally anyway. This is more about controlling the population by removing their firepower. When the founding fathers of this country ratified the second amendment they did it not only so citizens protect themselves from criminals but also from the government if/when they start to infringe upon their rights. 

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

-James Madison 4th President of the USA 
(Federalist No. 51)


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## Desert Fox

KRAIT said:


> Not different ? Sir, what are the basic utilities of a gun, alcohol and a car ?
> 
> Gun: For self protection or aggression which involves injuries and death. For few its a hobby. A object which is based on fear of death.
> 
> Alcohol : Just a drink which if taken in excessive may be fatal.
> 
> Car: For transportation and if driven wrong, can cause accidents and death.
> 
> You see the prime objectives of these things.



What is a gun without a human? Does the gun load itself with ammunition and start shooting on its own?

What is a car without a human? Do cars magically start running on their own and kill innocent by standers or ram into on coming traffic?

Does a bottle of liquor magically force alcohol down a alcoholics throat all on its own?

It all involves human activity, otherwise all three are just inanimate objects. Their purpose might be different, but all three are inanimate objects which can be used for good and bad.

In the proper hands a gun is as harmless as a feather, the same with car, yet more people die from car accidents due to carelessness and drunk driving.

In Switzerland, where it is mandatory for every military age male to own a gun and keep one in the house, the crime rate is very low, in fact its close to none. Compare that to New York City, and this is just a City, where legal gun ownership is next to impossible, the crime rate is through the roof.

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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> In NYC you need a valid reason to own a gun like being in the law enforcement or owning a store (i believe) otherwise you are subjected to extensive search and regulations.
> 
> You can't even carry a simple folding pocket knife, not even a pepper spray, my friends pepper spray was confiscated from him by the cops.



You should edit your comment then, yes their are restrictions like I said but any normal citizen can own a gun as long as they are willing to follow through with those restrictions.


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## ephone

What the hell is going on??? Sikh people is not the radar of anyone for quite some time. How could they become the target of violence???


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## KingMamba

KRAIT said:


> Not different ? Sir, what are the basic utilities of a gun, alcohol and a car ?
> 
> Gun: For self protection or aggression, if used , involves injuries and death. For few its a hobby. A object which is based on fear of death.
> 
> Alcohol : Just a drink which if taken in excessive may be fatal.
> 
> Car: For transportation and if driven wrong, can cause accidents and death.
> 
> You see the prime objectives and rationale behind owning these things.
> 
> These guns are part of US society. You are talking about NYC. What about Texas or other states ? Thousands of homicides every year all over US. You can't take a single city to cast a strategy for 50 states.
> 
> With guns, come the natural behavior of hunting or enjoying, and people who has some idiotic agenda and reasons, use it.
> 
> Look at all spree killers in history of US. According to their time, laws were strict too, but doesn't the crime rate increased. More strict you make a society, more susceptible you make it to black market products which you can't have any record.



Krait, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


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## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> You should edit your comment then, yes their are restrictions like I said but any normal citizen can own a gun as long as they are willing to follow through with those restrictions.


What does your uncle do? Is he in the law enforcement?


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## S_O_C_O_M

- The Washington Post

The shooter probably thought they were Muslims.


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> What is a gun without a human? Does the gun load itself with ammunition and start shooting on its own?
> 
> What is a car without a human? Do cars magically start running on their own and kill innocent by standers or ram into on coming traffic?
> 
> Does a bottle of liquor magically force alcohol down a alcoholics throat all on its own?
> 
> It all involves human activity, otherwise all three are just inanimate objects. Their purpose might be different, but all three are inanimate objects which can be used for good and bad.
> 
> In the proper hands a gun is as harmless as a feather, the same with car, yet more people die from car accidents due to carelessness and drunk driving.
> 
> In Switzerland, where it is mandatory for every military age male to own a gun and keep one in the house, the crime rate is very low, in fact its close to none. Compare that to New York City, and this is just a City, where legal gun ownership is next to impossible, the crime rate is through the roof.



There is no point of arguing with him. For him to really know what US is like he would have to come here and experience it himself. It would be funny to see how fast he gets himself a gun living in areas like Compton, California or Brownsville, NYC.



Desert Fox said:


> What does your uncle do? Is he in the law enforcement?



Nope accountant, he just went through all the legal channels. It is not hard really it is just that most people would not even get past the background check.

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## KRAIT

Desert Fox said:


> What is a gun without a human? Does the gun load itself with ammunition and start shooting on its own?
> 
> What is a car without a human? Do cars magically start running on their own and kill innocent by standers or ram into on coming traffic?
> 
> Does a bottle of liquor magically force alcohol down a alcoholics throat all on its own?
> 
> It all involves human activity, otherwise all three are just inanimate objects. Their purpose might be different, but all three are inanimate objects which can be used for good and bad.
> 
> In the proper hands a gun is as harmless as a feather, the same with car, yet more people die from car accidents due to carelessness and drunk driving.
> 
> In Switzerland, where it is mandatory for every military age male to own a gun and keep one in the house, the crime rate is very low, in fact its close to none. Compare that to New York City, and this is just a City, where legal gun ownership is next to impossible, the crime rate is through the roof.


Sir now you are bringing Man behind the Machine. We all know that. All I pointed out is, if you have a gun and you are too much angry at that person, or your child or your life is in danger, what would you do ?

Normal citizen can't have their hands on guns for protection while the criminals can get it from anywhere. What do you think people will want, its simple matter of survival. They don't believe in Police too much and they don't want to take chances.

I agree the gun control law will definitely have effect just like you mentioned the other country. But you do forget the social structure , and threat perception in US and other countries. 

You can't compare two countries just like we don't fire AK-47 while other people do during marriages. Still more number of people are killed in India. Here is another instance which support your view.

Point is no matter what you have, crimes will happen. But when it comes to choice, a person will rather have a gun in hand and feel secure than doubtful of security forces to protect them.

You are in US but can you present entire picture of US with your experience in NYC ? 

Generalization is not that easy, demographics matters.


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## RKhan

KingMamba93 said:


> Krait, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.



And my reply to that would be people with guns kill people.

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## S_O_C_O_M

CNN news reporter is an asshole. He kept on saying they are not "Muslims."


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## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> There is no point of arguing with him. For him to really know what US is like he would have to come here and experience it himself. It would be funny to see how fast he gets himself a gun living in areas like Compton, California or Brownsville, NYC.
> 
> 
> 
> Nope accountant, he just went through all the legal channels. It is not hard really it is just that most people would not even get past the background check.



I grew up in South Jamaica Queens, one of the roughest neighborhoods in America, particularly in NYC. When there was a murder nobody said anything out of fear of facing retaliation from the street gangs. After the 2008 recession things got really heated up, people were being robbed and black gangs began to raid middle class white neighborhoods because that is where they got a lot of their loot from. The cops weren't always around, they only reached the crime scene after some 7-10 minutes, by that time the perps fled the scene. These gangs in particular targeted south Asians since they are easy targets, a lot of Taxi cab drivers got murdered as well, most of whom are South Asians. 

Its the law abiding citizens who face the brutality of criminals when the government denies them the right to own a firearm for their self defense. A criminal will acquire a gun illegally no matter what, these gangs have connections and they will always get guns no matter what the government does.


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## Chinese-Dragon

Anish9500 said:


> The americans are still confusing sikhs for muslims.
> how sad. sigh.



What is wrong with you?

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## KRAIT

S_O_C_O_M said:


> CNN news reporter is an asshole. He kept on saying they are not "Muslims."


Actually avoiding people to get hot headed and target American Muslims coz they gets agitated and act on their prejudice. 

Its pathetic, but its a necessary action. You know the twisted minds in US. They need any reason to attack Muslims after 9/11.


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## karan21

i talked to a guy who live 3 mins from the temple and goes there. He said that most prolly this is the case of a white guy looking to kill some muslims, but ended up killing sikhs. There was a big party there and they thought it is ramadan and muslims are gathering. wow i cant believe this is stilll happening.



Chinese-Dragon said:


> What is wrong with you?



Wtf is wrong with you.


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## KingMamba

RKhan said:


> And my reply to that would be people with guns kill people.



So nobody kills people with knives or their bare hands anymore because they all have access to guns? 



Desert Fox said:


> I grew up in* South Jamaica Queens*, one of the roughest neighborhoods in America, particularly in NYC. When there was a murder nobody said anything out of fear of facing retaliation from the street gangs. After the 2008 recession things got really heated up, people were being robbed and black gangs began to raid middle class white neighborhoods because that is where they got a lot of their loot from. The cops weren't always around, they only reached the crime scene after some 7-10 minutes, by that time the perps fled the scene. These gangs in particular targeted south Asians since they are easy targets, a lot of Taxi cab drivers got murdered as well, most of whom are South Asians.
> 
> Its the law abiding citizens who face the brutality of criminals when the government denies them the right to own a firearm for their self defense. A criminal will acquire a gun illegally no matter what, these gangs have connections and they will always get guns no matter what the government does.



Agreed and yes I have heard of that part of Queens but I have lived in Brooklyn my whole life. Brooklynites are known for being gangsters and thugs and it is obvious if you tell someone from out of state you are from Brooklyn just by their reaction.

Try Brownsville, Sunset Park, East New York, Bedstuy, Flatbush, heck even Coney Island.

Between Brooklyn and Compton it is pretty much a toss up for gang capital of the country.

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## KRAIT

KingMamba93 said:


> Krait, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


Agreed, but make guns easily available. You can see the difference. I am not taking without any basis. I have studied the social crimes and effect of population, income, availability of guns and the new technologies introduced to control the situation. The case studies are from research papers on US crime statistics in international journals. 

Also, read about behavior pattern and psyche of a criminal. You will get my point.


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## S_O_C_O_M

KRAIT said:


> Actually avoiding people to get hot headed and target American Muslims coz they gets agitated and act on their prejudice.
> 
> Its pathetic, but its a necessary action. You know the twisted minds in US. They need any reason to attack Muslims after 9/11.



this posts makes absolutely no sense.


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## KingMamba

karan21 said:


> i talked to a guy who live 3 mins from the temple and goes there. He said that most prolly this is the case of a white guy looking to kill some muslims, but ended up killing sikhs. There was a big party there and they thought it is ramadan and muslims are gathering. wow i cant believe this is stilll happening.
> 
> 
> 
> *Wtf is wrong with you.*



What he said was exactly on line. Anish was trying to imply that it would have been okay if it had been Muslims and that is what he was reacting to.

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## SQ8

karan21 said:


> i talked to a guy who live 3 mins from the temple and goes there. He said that most prolly this is the case of a white guy looking to *kill some muslims, but ended up killing sikhs.* There was a big party there and they thought it is ramadan and muslims are gathering. wow i cant believe this is stilll happening.
> 
> 
> 
> Wtf is wrong with you.



Would it have been ok either way?
IF the redneck was stupid enough to mistake Sikhs for Muslims.. that does not take away the presence of Islamophobia from this case.


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## KRAIT

S_O_C_O_M said:


> this posts makes absolutely no sense.


 No sense. Well I can say nothing anymore. Hope you can observe what has been fed to US society. And learn from external stimuli and feedback effect on response mechanism which affects our decision making ability. Its a wonderful branch of science. And criminals are studied. The criminals who were sometimes innocent and commit crime cause they lost their mind.

Also study rumor transmission. There are hundreds of research articles based on US population. May be then you can understand what I am trying to say.


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## fallstuff

karan21 said:


> i talked to a guy who live 3 mins from the temple and goes there. He said that most prolly this is the case of a white guy looking to kill some muslims, but ended up killing sikhs. There was a big party there and they thought it is ramadan and muslims are gathering. wow i cant believe this is stilll happening.
> 
> 
> 
> Wtf is wrong with you.



Stupid is what stupid does.


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## KingMamba

S_O_C_O_M said:


> this posts makes absolutely no sense.



His heart was in the right place... I think.


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## Desert Fox

KRAIT said:


> Sir now you are bringing Man behind the Machine. We all know that. *All I pointed out is, if you have a gun and you are too much angry at that person, or your child or your life is in danger, what would you do *?


That comes down to self restraint, responsibility, and self control, something one needs to exercise when using/doing anything in his everyday life. Same question can be asked with regards to if one has a kitchen knife and one is angry at someone, or if one's life is in danger or that of his children, what would he do?



KRAIT said:


> Normal citizen can't have their hands on guns for protection while the criminals can get it from anywhere. What do you think people will want, its simple matter of survival. They don't believe in Police too much and they don't want to take chances.


Of course they would want a gun, but the difference between a normal citizen and a convicted criminal is that a law abiding citizen would not use his/her weapon for the wrong reasons. In America once you acquire your firearm it is mandatory to get your gun registered take a training course just as one would for a drivers license. 



KRAIT said:


> I agree the gun control law will definitely have effect just like you mentioned the other country. But you do forget the social structure , and threat perception in US and other countries.


Elaborate what you mean by threat perception in the US and other countries. Most of the shootouts and street crimes are carried out by street gangs, for them its a every day life thing, they kill and if they happen to get caught they go to prison, but in prison they only end up with their other "homies" who also get arrested for similar crimes. 



KRAIT said:


> You can't compare two countries just like we don't fire AK-47 while other people do during marriages. Still more number of people are killed in India. Here is another instance which support your view.


Which is why i said guns can't kill people on their own, its people who kill people whether by using a gun or any other inanimate object to commit the crime.

Regarding firing AK-47's in the air, that is irresponsible behavior and people who indulge in such should have their guns confiscated and their license suspended for a period of time. Bullets falling down from hundreds of feet are just as dangerous as a bullet straight from the barrel of a gun.



KRAIT said:


> Point is no matter what you have, crimes will happen. But when it comes to choice, a person will rather have a gun in hand and feel secure than doubtful of security forces to protect them.


Exactly.



KRAIT said:


> You are in US but can you present entire picture of US with your experience in NYC ? Generalization is not that easy, demographics matters.


The reason why i gave example of NYC because it is one of the most difficult places to acquire a gun, not that you can't own one legally, however you must have a valid reason to own a gun, for example working in the law enforcement or another occupation that makes you a potential target for attackers, criminals, robbers, etc. Yet the crime rate is high in NYC.


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## SQ8

karan21 said:


> I dont know what to do. I went to a white high school and that time i had a a long beard. Many thought i was a muslim. They shoud be thought the different, i guess in the religion course in high school they should be tought the difference in muslims and sikhs. *So that they can kill the right person atleast.*



Sad..
the level of human dignity NOT showing in that statement.
JUST plain.. pathetic.

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## Karachiite

karan21 said:


> I dont know what to do. I went to a white high school and that time i had a a long beard. Many thought i was a muslim. They shoud be thought the different, i guess in the religion course in high school they should be tought the difference in muslims and sikhs.* So that they can kill the right person atleast.*



Mods, ban him please.


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## KingMamba

KRAIT said:


> Agreed, *but make guns easily available*. You can see the difference. I am not taking without any basis. I have studied the social crimes and effect of population, income, availability of guns and the new technologies introduced to control the situation. The case studies are from research papers on US crime statistics in international journals.
> 
> Also, read about behavior pattern and psyche of a criminal. You will get my point.



Then you have no reason to worry brother because they are not easily available.


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## karan21

Oscar said:


> Sad..
> the level of human dignity NOT showing in that statement.
> JUST plain.. pathetic.



Jk- just kidding.


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## KingMamba

karan21 said:


> I dont know what to do. I went to a white high school and that time i had a a long beard. Many thought i was a muslim. They shoud be thought the different, i guess in the religion course in high school they should be tought the difference in muslims and sikhs. *So that they can kill the right person atleast.*



My God, wow just wow.


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## KRAIT

ScienceDirect.com - Preventive Medicine - State background checks for gun purchase and firearm deaths: An exploratory study

ScienceDirect.com - Social Science & Medicine - Social capital, income inequality, and firearm violent crime

Here are few articles in journals based on data collected in US. I am not saying you are wrong. All I am saying there are many factors for crime. And availability of guns is a major one. But it doesn't mean gun restrictions can bring down the crime to very low level. It would have impact but not that much as people are suggesting.

In first research paper link, you can see other factors like mental illness, restraining orders, fugitives status and misdemeanors.

_It does not appear that reductions in firearm deaths are offset by increases in non-firearm violent deaths._

Kindly go through it.


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## karan21

KingMamba93 said:


> My God, wow just wow.



I edited it. all right now chill.


----------



## Al-zakir

Just saw the news in Ch 4. RIP to dead. Not much about the gunman and motive behind the killing. We will have to wait little longer to uncover the killer agendas.


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## KingMamba

karan21 said:


> Jk- just kidding.



No... you were not and you know it too. 



karan21 said:


> I edited it. all right now chill.



Whatever man.


----------



## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> So nobody kills people with knives or their bare hands anymore because they all have access to guns?
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed and yes I have heard of that part of Queens but I have lived in Brooklyn my whole life. Brooklynites are known for being gangsters and thugs and it is obvious if you tell someone from out of state you are from Brooklyn just by their reaction.
> 
> Try Brownsville, Sunset Park, East New York, Bedstuy, Flatbush, heck even Coney Island.
> 
> Between Brooklyn and Compton it is pretty much a toss up for gang capital of the country.



Yeah, i've lived in Sunset park Brooklyn as well, but lived in Jamaica Queens for a long while (12-13 years) and moved out a couple of years ago. Right around the time we moved out, my sisters friend while coming home from college witnessed a guy getting gutted by two black males dressed in hoodies. Once i was walking home from the playground and a car slowed down on the other side of the street where two black guys were walking and all of a sudden you here gat gat!! and the car speeds off out of sight, fortunately they missed their targets. Another instance, it was at night when everyone in the house was asleep, 4 gun shots went off and i rolled off my bed because of their danger of a stray bullet penetrating the walls.


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## KingMamba

KRAIT said:


> ScienceDirect.com - Preventive Medicine - State background checks for gun purchase and firearm deaths: An exploratory study
> 
> ScienceDirect.com - Social Science & Medicine - Social capital, income inequality, and firearm violent crime
> 
> Here are few articles in journals based on data collected in US. I am not saying you are wrong. All I am saying there are many factors for crime. And availability of guns is a major one. But it doesn't mean gun restrictions can bring down the crime to very low level. It would have impact but not that much as people are suggesting.



Krait I can see where you are coming from with all this but you have to understand that in the US at least the 2nd amendment is here to stay. The challenge is how to reduce crime without infringing upon the rights of the people.

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## karan21

KingMamba93 said:


> No... you were not and you know it too.
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever man.



kk a bad joke, but u know what right now i am studying with a muslim guy in a library in waterloo. Do you think i want my frind to be killed or any muslim to be killed. No i dont.


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## KRAIT

KingMamba93 said:


> Krait I can see where you are coming from with all this but you have to understand that in the US at least the 2nd amendment is here to stay. The challenge is how to reduce crime without infringing upon the rights of the people.


Agreed. That's why the people are now trying to understand the new technologies being introduced to reduce crimes. But these technologies certainly breach your privacy. The efficiency and dark side of these technologies are studied comprehensively and what steps should be taken. 

Also, what type of information, videos, print media, should the current and next generation be exposed of. Censorship is a two edged sword. 

I won't be surprised if this nutcase who attacked these people watched too much violent movies and violent stuffs available on Youtube.


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Yeah, i've lived in Sunset park Brooklyn as well, but lived in Jamaica Queens for a long while (12-13 years) and moved out a couple of years ago. Right around the time we moved out, my sisters friend while coming home from college witnessed a guy getting gutted by two black males dressed in hoodies. Once i was walking home from the playground and a car slowed down on the other side of the street where two black guys were walking and all of a sudden you here gat gat!! and the car speeds off out of sight, fortunately they missed their targets. Another instance, it was at night when everyone in the house was asleep, 4 gun shots went off and i rolled off my bed because of their danger of a stray bullet penetrating the walls.



Yaar I have so many of these stories I do not even know where to start. I forgot to list the Marlboro projects, when my aunts first came from Pakistan they rented a house there and heard gunshot every other night. One time I was at a party in sunset park and some drunk Hispanic put a .45 on my head for the heck of it (my friend knew him though so he calmed him down, we are friends now ). One of my friends who I grew up with since elementary school is currently in jail for gutting some kid who was in a rival gang. Some of my black friends in Brownsville tell me how they can't even take out their electronics on their way to school without getting mugged. One of my other friend got shot at in a park just because he was supposedly in their "turf". Then lets not even start with the stupid Pakistani kids who try to emulate these "gangsters" and start up their own stupid sh*t. The ironic thing is then they fight fellow Pakistanis it really is ridiculous.



karan21 said:


> kk a bad joke, but u know what right now i am studying with a muslim guy in a library in waterloo. Do you think i want my frind to be killed or any muslim to be killed. No i dont.



Okay man I will give you the benefit of doubt. No hard feelings.

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## Irfan Baloch

update

the Police Chief John Edwards has termed it 

"DOMESTIC TERRORIST ACT"

FBI is going to take over the criminal investigation. still no further details about the identity and motives of the gunman. they are certain now that it was a lone gunman.

I will go along the "mistaken Identity" as speculation about the motives as suggested by our fellow members. it doesnt mean that it would have been ok if it was Muslims. well it would have been ok for American media because they would blame it on AL Qaeda.,

till today, on the eve of day when Pearl Harbour attack took place, people with oriental features are attacked throughout America by the God fearing true American patriots so this also could have been an attack on Muslims gone wrong

like I mentioned earlier, (about thinking & mentality of racists that) they all look the same so what the hell. in UK the fascists only went as far as throwing a pigs head at a proposed mosque site and I know some members had a giggle about it but today's incident had tragic consequences.


The chief goes further saying that he cant give any details about the suspect and explains what he means by domestic terrorist act as something that has been perpetrated within the confines of United states and has no link to a foreign country or organisation.

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## Karachiite

I like how some people are saying they were probably mistaken for Muslims. So if the shooter attacked a mosque, it would be perfectly ok?


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## KRAIT

^ That's what I am talking about sir, the prejudice and paranoia. Authorities are not giving entire information to avoid any backlash.


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## Al-zakir

According to CNN, the killer was wearing 9/11 tattoos. So, is it possible that he went after Sikh instead of Muslims?


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## karan21

self delete.


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## Rafi

karan21 said:


> Time for sikhs to blow up Manhattan



I hope you are joking - you mad man.


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## KRAIT

Karachiite said:


> I like how some people are saying they were probably mistaken for Muslims. So if the shooter attacked a mosque, it would be perfectly ok?


No buddy its not. But these psychopaths when believe something, no one can change their view. May be that person wanted to kill Muslims just coz of same old reasons or Sikhs for taking jobs in US. Possibilities are millions. He might have attacked considering them just Indian, not Sikh specifically considering Indians are taking away their jobs. He may have reason to blame anyone. So its hard to determine what was his motive until investigation is over.

FBI has been called early, things will be clear soon.


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## cloud_9

Someone realized his mistake.

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## Emmie

Can't believe! Jews also keep beard.


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## Irfan Baloch

Emmie said:


> Can't believe! Jews also keep beard.


but mostly they are white so there is less or no chance for a mistake.


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## karan21

Rafi said:


> I hope you are joking - you mad man.



Nah man i am serious, just preparing my vest with bombs. You will hear the news in nxt 30 mins.



cloud_9 said:


> Your posts were pretty shameful....Killing innocent people isn't OK.
> 
> @Topic
> Sad incident.....hard working Americans getting killed by a fanatic.
> 
> Time to cancel your visa and deport you back to your village.



Yeah man my apologies, for hurting ur feelings, but i dont think i was that shamefull considering what has been posted on this forum before.

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## Mercenary

Fights in Sikh Temples happen quite a bit. I was wondering why they had Police officers at the temple. One of the officers killed the suspect and another office was injured in gunfire exchanged with the suspect.


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## VCheng

Irfan Baloch said:


> update
> 
> the Police Chief John Edwards has termed it
> 
> "DOMESTIC TERRORIST ACT"
> 
> FBI is going to take over the criminal investigation. still no further details about the identity and motives of the gunman. they are certain now that it was a lone gunman.
> 
> I will go along the "mistaken Identity" as speculation about the motives as suggested by our fellow members. it doesnt mean that it would have been ok if it was Muslims. well it would have been ok for American media because they would blame it on AL Qaeda.,
> 
> till today, on the eve of day when Pearl Harbour attack took place, people with oriental features are attacked throughout America by the God fearing true American patriots so this also could have been an attack on Muslims gone wrong
> 
> like I mentioned earlier, (about thinking & mentality of racists that) they all look the same so what the hell. in UK the fascists only went as far as throwing a pigs head at a proposed mosque site and I know some members had a giggle about it but today's incident had tragic consequences.
> 
> 
> The chief goes further saying that he cant give any details about the suspect and explains what he means by domestic terrorist act as something that has been perpetrated within the confines of United states and has no link to a foreign country or organisation.



Let us wait for the legal process to continue. I am sure everything will become clearer as to the motives in this case.


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## Desi Guy

never mind...

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## Cheetah786

Report: Shooting at Sikh Temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin

Shooting at Sikh temple in Wisconsin leaves at least 7 dead, including gunman Shooter 'white male in his 30s'.


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## KingMamba

Rep. Mark Honadel, who represents the area, called the attack "craziness."
"Unfortunately, when this type of stuff hits your area, you say to yourself, 'Why?' But in today's society, I don't think there's any place that's free from idiots."

- CNN


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## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> Yaar I have so many of these stories I do not even know where to start. I forgot to list the Marlboro projects, when my aunts first came from Pakistan they rented a house there and heard gunshot every other night. One time I was at a party in sunset park and some drunk Hispanic put a .45 on my head for the heck of it (my friend knew him though so he calmed him down, we are friends now ). One of my friends who I grew up with since elementary school is currently in jail for gutting some kid who was in a rival gang. Some of my black friends in Brownsville tell me how they can't even take out their electronics on their way to school without getting mugged. One of my other friend got shot at in a park just because he was supposedly in their "turf". Then lets not even start with the stupid Pakistani kids who try to emulate these "gangsters" and start up their own stupid sh*t. The ironic thing is then they fight fellow Pakistanis it really is ridiculous.



Man, i can relate to a lot of the things you mentioned. I remember in middle school- early high school growing up in the ghetto the only people i mostly knew were Blacks and Hispanics, most of my friends were blacks as well and a lot of them ended up joining the local gangs. I remember how in school kids would get picked on, especially the kids who didn't have any gang affiliation and if you had a new phone or nice pair of Jordan's you were pretty much screwed. The neighborhood was so bad that even the teachers would only bring their crappy cars since those were less likely to get jacked. Around summer time was when it got really violent and desperate. It was like all the thugs came out of hibernation. 

I still remember how this kid was beat up very badly, jumped by a whole group of boys, they were literally doing back flips on the kid, that left a lasting impression on me, it was literally like living in a jungle. If you didn't know anybody in the neighborhood you were a basically a target, no one really messed with me, they just left me alone, since i knew a lot of people and basically grew up there since i was 6, i had friends who were in gangs or had family members in gangs. The

There was this gang in my neighborhood known as Lost Boys, L.B. for short, it was pretty big too and a lot of the boys in my neighborhood were in this gang, they had beef with the L.K. (Latin Kings) and L.F. (Lost Foundation), my friend was initiated into this gang as well, he had a lot of connections, majority of my friends had a family member in a gang or were in a gang themselves. They had to memorize these unique hand shakes, hand signals, etc so that when they came across a fellow gang member they had to prove their membership through these handshakes and signals. Fortunately for me i didn't have to join a gang since my friends had my back regardless, they knew since i was a Pakistani and stood out from the rest, joining a gang would make me a prime target for rival gangs, and considering that the OG's would purposely lengthen my initiation process (you had to fight a active gang soldier for a certain amount of time to become a member) due to me being different from the rest. My other friend was a crip, the school officials switched him out to a different school since he started receiving a lot of threats from rival gang members.


Now when i was in high school, initially i went to the notorious Jamaica High school located in hillside avenue and Gothic street, it had a very bad reputation and eventually they had to close it down in 2009 due to the very low graduation rate and sky high dropout rate. The school was literally a zoo, everyday we had to go through security scans before entering the school, take of our belts like we were in some prison, in the class rooms you had constant brawls, in the hallways it was like animals screaming, crazy. There were a lot of Pakistanis, indians, Bangalis, Afghans, and Arabs in that school as well, since the school was in a predominantly Pakistani/desi neighborhood, but they were the easy targets, except a few Pakistanis who didn't take sh!t. I remember this kid Irfan, he newly moved to the US and used to work at the local fried chicken store until he was either fired or just quit, he was 17 years old and a freshmen, he knew some english and spoke with a accent. He had beef with this Latino kid and i hated that kid a lot too since he had a habit of picking on Pakistani freshmen, and Irfan was no coward, he didn't back off when it came to fighting, i still remember how i was walking down to hillside ave along with Irfan and a few other Pakistanis with the Latino kid walking in front of us with two of his buddies. Both of them were cussing and insulting each other and the kid was talking trash like how he was going to eff Irfan up, and it got heated to an extent that it was like they'd actually fight but the latino backed off since he knew he'd get his but handed to him, Irfan was a tough kid.

A lot of Arabs began to move into hillside ave (the neighborhood surrounding Jamaica HS) as well, last time i went there after i had moved out i saw a lot of Arabs.


When i look back i had some good times there and i do miss it at times, but i had to move on, i always had a feeling that had i stayed there i probably would have been a high school dropout like the many of them and would not have made it to where i am now.



KingMamba93 said:


> Then lets not even start with the stupid Pakistani kids who try to emulate these "gangsters" and start up their own stupid sh*t. The ironic thing is then they fight fellow Pakistanis it really is ridiculous.


Yeah i came across my share of such people as well.

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## Emmie

Irfan Baloch said:


> but mostly they are white so there is less or no chance for a mistake.



Still not convinced unless trigger-happy lunatic was after south Asian Muslims. Muslims from Arab and Europe are often white.


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## Sashan

Between that, I like the newly coined word "Domestic terrorism". Not sure it will stay as a superficial term or will have wide ramification like application of terror laws if ever someone is caught alive.

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## S_O_C_O_M

KRAIT said:


> No sense. Well I can say nothing anymore. Hope you can observe what has been fed to US society. And learn from external stimuli and feedback effect on response mechanism which affects our decision making ability. Its a wonderful branch of science. And criminals are studied. The criminals who were sometimes innocent and commit crime cause they lost their mind.
> 
> Also study rumor transmission. There are hundreds of research articles based on US population. May be then you can understand what I am trying to say.



Don't try to pull a double turn around when your last post was in not in proper comprehensible english.


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## iPhone

They have to start profiling these red necks who have amassed so much weaponry in their houses just like they profile an average Muslim with the last name Mohammed. These crazy Johns and Bobs have armories in their houses and ATF and FBI turns blind eye to them cuz they're just being "Americans."

RIP to the innocent dead Sikh worshipers who lost their lives to a merciless thug. I could have been any race or religion, Muslims, Jewish, Hindus or Christians or any other. These sick minded people don't care.


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Man, i can relate to a lot of the things you mentioned. I remember in middle school- early high school growing up in the ghetto the only people i mostly knew were Blacks and Hispanics, most of my friends were blacks as well and a lot of them ended up joining the local gangs. I remember how in school kids would get picked on, especially the kids who didn't have any gang affiliation and if you had a new phone or nice pair of Jordan's you were pretty much screwed. The neighborhood was so bad that even the teachers would only bring their crappy cars since those were less likely to get jacked. Around summer time was when it got really violent and desperate. It was like all the thugs came out of hibernation.
> 
> I still remember how this kid was beat up very badly, jumped by a whole group of boys, they were literally doing back flips on the kid, that left a lasting impression on me, it was literally like living in a jungle. If you didn't know anybody in the neighborhood you were a basically a target, no one really messed with me since i knew a lot of people and basically grew up there since i was 6, i had friends who were in gangs or had family members in gangs.
> 
> There was this gang in my neighborhood known as Lost Boys, L.B. for short, it was pretty big too and a lot of the boys in my neighborhood were in this gang, they had beef with the L.K. (Latin Kings), my friend was initiated into this gang as well, he had a lot of connections, majority of my friends had a family member in a gang or were in a gang themselves. They had to memorize these unique hand shakes, hand signals, etc so that when they came across a fellow gang member they had to prove their membership through these handshakes and signals. Fortunately for me i didn't have to join a gang since my friends had my back regardless, they knew since i was a Pakistani and stood out from the rest, joining a gang would make me a prime target for rival gangs, and considering that the OG's would purposely lengthen my initiation process (you had to fight a active gang soldier for a certain amount of time to become a member) due to me being different from the rest. My other friend was a crip, the school officials switched him out to a different school since he started receiving a lot of threats from rival gang members.
> 
> 
> Now when i was in high school, initially i went to the notorious Jamaica High school located in hillside avenue and Gothic street, it had a very bad reputation and eventually they had to close it down in 2009 due to the very low graduation rate and sky high dropout rate. The school was literally a zoo, everyday we had to go through security scans before entering the school, take of our belts like we were in some prison, in the class rooms you had constant brawls, in the hallways it was like animals screaming, crazy. There were a lot of Pakistanis, indians, Bangalis, Afghans, and Arabs in that school as well, since the school was in a predominantly Pakistani/desi neighborhood, but they were the easy targets, except a few Pakistanis who didn't take sh!t. I remember this kid Irfan, he newly moved to the US and used to work at the local fried chicken store until he was either fired or just quit, he was 17 years old and a freshmen, he knew some english and spoke with a accent. He had beef with this Latino kid and i hated that kid a lot too since he had a habit of picking on Pakistani freshmen, and Irfan was no coward, he didn't back off when it came to fighting, i still remember how i was walking down to hillside ave along with Irfan and a few other Pakistanis with the Latino kid walking in front of us with two of his buddies. Both of them were cussing and insulting each other and the kid was talking trash like how he was going to eff Irfan up, and it got heated to an extent that it was like they'd actually fight but the latino backed off since he knew he'd get his but handed to him, Irfan was a tough kid.
> 
> A lot of Arabs began to move into hillside ave (the neighborhood surrounding Jamaica HS) as well, last time i went there after i had moved out i saw a lot of Arabs.
> 
> 
> When i look back i had some good times there and i do miss it at times, but i had to move on, i always had a feeling that had i stayed there i probably would have been a high school dropout like the many of them and would not have made it to where i am now.
> 
> 
> Yeah i came across my share of such people as well.



How old are you bro? I am 19 so I just went through most of that stuff recently. God man its like I have lived a lifetime in my short 19 years. Most of my friends are Black and Hispanic so i went through basically the same thing. I usually to chill with the wrong people most who were involved in stupid **** although luckily I never got into too much trouble. My best friend is a Blood and my High school James Madison was right next to Flatbush so it was filled with Sex, Money Murder Bloods, Canarsie Crips, and Latin Kings (forget what branch they belonged to). There was also thing one of my other friends started up and he had up to 60 members in it who had problems with the LK. The funny thing was you could have problems with one subgroup of LK but be entirely cool with a different one. I have a lot of friends in the Sunset Park Kings but had problems with some other ones over some girl.  I was going through a Latin girl phase sh*t happened good times. I barely spend times in Queens but always around Manhattan, Brooklyn and sometimes Bronx and got family in SI. I had a couple of Pakistani friends who I started chilling with when I realized I needed to be around better crowds but it turned out that they too were involved in their own stupid sh*t. They had this one goup called The Kingdom and they had grown *** Pakistanis in it who basically sold drugs and beat up other Pakistanis. Then there was KD (krazi desis lol) who had Pakistanis and Bengali who always got beat up by a bunch of other Pakistanis in Coney Island. 

I don't wanna rant too much off topic though so that is enough for now.

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## iPhone

Karachiite said:


> I like how some people are saying they were probably mistaken for Muslims. So if the shooter attacked a mosque, it would be perfectly ok?



No, they knew who they were attacking. These people do a through research before committing such attacks and usually they are very smart.


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## iPhone

To both king mamba and Desert Fox, congrats in surviving US and especially New York high schools. I was in high school in both Los Angeles and New York (brooklyn) and can confirm what you guys are saying and have been through similar incidents. I basically stayed away from all the gang sh!t, graduated, went to college and doing alright for myself. It seems I'm at least over 10 yrs older than you guys, I wish and hope for the best future for you guys after H.S. the same way I do for my 17 yr old brother who is currently in hillside high school as a senior. 

Pakistani youth goes through a lot in American schools, I just applaud their courage when they successfully graduate and go to college. It's a different world then. It's like being plucked out of the jungle and into civilized world.

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## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> How old are you bro? I am *19* so I just went through most of that stuff recently.


I'm around there.



KingMamba93 said:


> God man its like I have lived a lifetime in my short 19 years. Most of my friends are Black and Hispanic so i went through basically the same thing. I usually to chill with the wrong people most who were involved in stupid **** although luckily I never got into too much trouble. My best friend is a Blood and my High school James Madison was right next to Flatbush so it was filled with Sex, Money Murder Bloods, Canarsie Crips, and Latin Kings (forget what branch they belonged to). There was also thing one of my other friends started up and he had up to 60 members in it who had problems with the LK. The funny thing was you could have problems with one subgroup of LK but be entirely cool with a different one. I have a lot of friends in the Sunset Park Kings but had problems with some other ones over some girl.  I was going through a Latin girl phase sh*t happened good times.


Lol, Latina's are dangerous, especially those ghetto ones. Last summer in the newspaper (i believe, can't really remember), a Latino woman cut her husbands penis off while he was sleeping. Of course not all of them are like that but some of the ones i met were crazy.



KingMamba93 said:


> I barely spend times in Queens but always around Manhattan, Brooklyn and sometimes Bronx and got family in SI.


I've been to the Bronx a couple of times, lived in Brooklyn (sunset park), but to me Queens was my turf, that's where i felt at home but eventually moved from there, couldn't stay there for the rest of my life.



KingMamba93 said:


> I had a couple of Pakistani friends who I started chilling with when I realized I needed to be around better crowds but it turned out that they too were involved in their own stupid sh*t.


Yeah, same here bro, i wasn't exposed to a lot of Pakistanis until early freshmen year in high school, before that i only knew 1 or 2 Pakistanis so i never had a negative view of Pakistanis until Jamaica HS, heck even then i didn't believe that all Pakistanis would turn out to be trouble makers, and i'm not generalizing but majority of the Pakistanis i've met have disappointed me, they try to imitate thug culture.



KingMamba93 said:


> They had this one goup called The Kingdom and they had grown *** Pakistanis in it who basically sold drugs and beat up other Pakistanis. Then there was KD (krazi desis lol) who had Pakistanis and Bengali who always got beat up by a bunch of other Pakistanis in Coney Island.


Wow, that's retarded, what was their reason for hating each other?



KingMamba93 said:


> I don't wanna rant too much off topic though so that is enough for now.


Yeah, same here.


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> I'm around there.
> 
> 
> Lol, *Latina's are dangerous*, especially those ghetto ones. Last summer in the newspaper (i believe, can't really remember), a Latino woman cut her husbands penis off while he was sleeping. Of course not all of them are like that but some of the ones i met were crazy.
> 
> 
> I've been to the Bronx a couple of times, lived in Brooklyn (sunset park), but to me Queens was my turf, that's where i felt at home but eventually moved from there, couldn't stay there for the rest of my life.
> 
> 
> Yeah, same here bro, i wasn't exposed to a lot of Pakistanis until early freshmen year in high school, before that i only knew 1 or 2 Pakistanis so i never had a negative view of Pakistanis until Jamaica HS, heck even then i didn't believe that all Pakistanis would turn out to be trouble makers, and i'm not generalizing but majority of the Pakistanis i've met have disappointed me, they try to imitate thug culture.
> 
> 
> *Wow, that's retarded, what was their reason for hating each other?*
> 
> 
> Yeah, same here.



Yes they are but they are also so good looking. (Allah forgive me LOL) 
Who gets to sell weed where and when. Stupid stuff.


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## Desert Fox

KingMamba93 said:


> Yes they are but they are also so good looking. (Allah forgive me LOL)


Don't judge a book by its cover.



KingMamba93 said:


> Who gets to sell weed where and when. Stupid stuff.


Wow, that is retarded.

BTW, i made a thread dedicated to NYC, if you have any input of the neighborhoods with a few pics or videos to go along with them do post them here.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/150739-city-never-sleeps-nyc.html


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## KingMamba

iPhone said:


> To both king mamba and Desert Fox, congrats in surviving US and especially New York high schools. I was in high school in both Los Angeles and New York (brooklyn) and can confirm what you guys are saying and have been through similar incidents. I basically stayed away from all the gang sh!t, graduated, went to college and doing alright for myself. It seems I'm at least over 10 yrs older than you guys, I wish and hope for the best future for you guys after H.S. the same way I do for my 17 yr old brother who is currently in hillside high school as a senior.
> 
> Pakistani youth goes through a lot in American schools, I just applaud their courage when they successfully graduate and go to college. It's a different world then. It's like being plucked out of the jungle and into civilized world.



Yeah bro I was born here, only been to Pakistan once when I was in the 6th grade for a couple of months and it was a culture shock. I am currently in college my Gpa is 3.7 so I don't regret nothing you know you live and learn. I actually think it is harder for the Pakistanis who immigrate to America (the kids) they just want to fit in so they hang out with the Pakistanis who were born here who take stuff like education for granted and steer the new kids in the wrong direction. It is a shame really. I got so much more to say to people like Fox and you who have gone through the stuff I have lol but will leave the rest for my book I will write when I turn into an old fart. (Inshallah)


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## Rafi

Latina's are the best - they look a bit "desi", but tend to have better "shape" and morals to boot, Good times.


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## KingMamba

Desert Fox said:


> Don't judge a book by its cover.
> 
> 
> Wow, that is retarded.
> 
> BTW, i made a thread dedicated to NYC, if you have any input of the neighborhoods with a few pics or videos to go along with them do post them here.
> 
> http://www.defence.pk/forums/general-images-multimedia/150739-city-never-sleeps-nyc.html



I know that now!  
Yes I know and alright.


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## iPhone

Pakistani kids in coney island area of Brooklyn were the worst when it came to imitating gang culture. This was 15 years ago at least, I remember they used to wear these tank tops and extremely baggy pants to school, ear pierced and that god awful haircut with designs on the head. There always fights among them during the August Pakistan day melas. Hopefully, they have changed but I doubt it.


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## KingMamba

Rafi said:


> Latina's are the best - they look a bit "desi", but tend to have better "shape" and *morals* to boot, Good times.



 Brother rafi if only you knew the ladies I do.


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## Rafi

KingMamba93 said:


> Brother rafi if only you knew the ladies I do.



That's what I mean  you can convince them to do all sorts


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## Karachiite

Rafi said:


> Latina's are the best - they look a bit "desi", but tend to have better "shape" and morals to boot, Good times.



Oh lawd I love latinas.

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## airmarshal

Imagine if this had happened in Pakistan? A one moron attacking a church somewhere and all hell would have broken loose. there would have been talk of extremist take over of the nuclear weapons.

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## KingMamba

They say Pakistani men like white women yet on this thread you can see the love for the Latinas.  



airmarshal said:


> Imagine if this had happened in Pakistan? A one moron attacking a church somewhere and all hell would have broken loose. there would have been talk of extremist take over of the nuclear weapons.



The shooter wore a white T-shirt but no bulletproof vest, an official says 
- CNN update.... 
They still refuse to release the ethnicity of the shooter.


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## iPhone

airmarshal said:


> Imagine if this had happened in Pakistan? A one moron attacking a church somewhere and all hell would have broken loose. there would have been talk of extremist take over of the nuclear weapons.



That's true. But here it's work of a lone wolf. Such an insult to wolves.



KingMamba93 said:


> *Yeah bro I was born here, only been to Pakistan once when I was in the 6th grade for a couple of months and it was a culture shock.* I am currently in college my Gpa is 3.7 so I don't regret nothing you know you live and learn. I actually think it is harder for the Pakistanis who immigrate to America (the kids) they just want to fit in so they hang out with the Pakistanis who were born here who take stuff like education for granted and steer the new kids in the wrong direction. It is a shame really. I got so much more to say to people like Fox and you who have gone through the stuff I have lol but will leave the rest for my book I will write when I turn into an old fart. (Inshallah)



then it's really astounding you joined a Pakistani forum and a defence one at that. Usually kids born here wanna have nothing to do with anything assosiated with the land of their parents. Unless it comes to looking for opposite sex. But you have your priorties straight, that's awesome, best of luck.


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## Rhino

The great American gun culture


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## Karachiite

airmarshal said:


> Imagine if this had happened in Pakistan? A one moron attacking a church somewhere and all hell would have broken loose. there would have been talk of extremist take over of the nuclear weapons.



Well it already happened before in 2001 where a bunch of worthless scumbags killed 16 people at a church in Bahawalpur.


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## RazPaK

Hey im a pakistani immigrant and don't even talk to the little pakistani hood rats in queens and coney island. In manhattan the pakistanis try to act white so i dont get along with them either. Lolz



Karachiite said:


> Well it already happened before in 2001 where a bunch of worthless scumbags killed 16 people at a church in Bahawalpur.



That was a terrible day. It was actually a catholic school. We used to play cricket right outside the school in this huge park. The gunmen were from out of town.

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## S_O_C_O_M

RazPaK said:


> Hey im a pakistani immigrant and don't even talk to the little pakistani hood rats in queens and coney island. In manhattan the pakistanis try to act white so i dont get along with them either. Lolz



I hate those Pakistani hood rats. i would beat the sh!t out of their skinny wankasta wana be hard ***. None of those smucks ever even seen the inside of a gym. They even try to to act hard during Iftar.


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## RazPaK

S_O_C_O_M said:


> I hate those Pakistani hood rats. i would beat the sh!t out of their skinny wankasta wana be hard ***. None of those smucks ever even seen the inside of a gym. They even try to to act hard during Iftar.



Being from the village i could probably kill them with a slap, but when i see them wearing wife beaters with skinny arms i just crack up and keep walking.

Sikh kids do it too. They try to pass off that they are puerto ricans.

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## S_O_C_O_M

RazPaK said:


> Being from the village i could probably kill them with a slap, *but when i see them wearing wife beaters with skinny arms i just crack up and keep walking.*
> 
> Sikh kids do it too. They try to pass off that they are puerto ricans.


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## pakistanitarzan

S_O_C_O_M said:


> I hate those Pakistani hood rats. i would beat the sh!t out of their skinny wankasta wana be hard ***. None of those smucks ever even seen the inside of a gym. They even try to to act hard during Iftar.



Exactly! LOL


oh and yeah, very sad incident indeed. RIP to the victims


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## KingMamba

iPhone said:


> then it's really astounding you joined a Pakistani forum and a defence one at that. Usually kids born here wanna have nothing to do with anything assosiated with the land of their parents. Unless it comes to looking for opposite sex. But you have your priorties straight, that's awesome, best of luck.



I was like that before I am not gonna lie I didn't want anything to do with Pakistan. As I got older I got more interested and came across this site and once I signed up the Bhartis on this forum helped me find my patriotism really fast. 

Now I am going to start going back more often maybe even this winter InshAllah.



RazPaK said:


> Hey im a pakistani immigrant and don't even talk to the little pakistani hood rats in queens and coney island. In manhattan the pakistanis try to act white so i dont get along with them either. Lolz
> 
> 
> 
> That was a terrible day. It was actually a catholic school. We used to play cricket right outside the school in this huge park. The gunmen were from out of town.



I don't get along with many anymore either just dwah salaam lol. They are such drama baaz like women. 



S_O_C_O_M said:


> I hate those Pakistani hood rats. i would beat the sh!t out of their skinny wankasta wana be hard ***. None of those smucks ever *even seen the inside of a gym.* They even try to to act hard during Iftar.



  Yeah they be acting so hard and they usually mad small.



RazPaK said:


> Being from the village i could probably kill them with a slap, but when i see them wearing wife beaters with skinny arms i just crack up and keep walking.
> 
> Sikh kids do it too. They try to pass off that they are puerto ricans.



They be acting up inside mosques too.

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## iPhone

Hey, there are lots of Pakistanis here near the NYC area, let's set up a meeting once.


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## KingMamba

iPhone said:


> Hey, there are lots of Pakistanis here near the NYC area, let's set up a meeting once.



We should all meet up during Pakistan parade or something.


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## RazPaK

I don't want to drop any names but i go to the biggest mosque in nyc. It's close to Harlem. I always see a mature and diverse crowd there so i don't know. Plus it's not far from my apt. I am moving in two weeks though to due to work. Also my only relative in the US uncle wants me to live with him because i've graduated from school now.


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## iPhone

KingMamba93 said:


> We should all meet up during Pakistan parade or something.



They gonna have it this year? With ramazaan and all.


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## KingMamba

RazPaK said:


> I don't want to drop any names but i go to the biggest mosque in nyc. It's close to Harlem. I always see a mature and diverse crowd there so i don't know. Plus it's not far from my apt. I am moving in two weeka though to *Connecticut.*



Mad expensive there yaar. $4 dollars for a slice of pizza.


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## iPhone

RazPaK said:


> I don't want to drop any names but i go to the biggest mosque in nyc. It's close to Harlem. I always see a mature and diverse crowd there so i don't know. Plus it's not far from my apt. I am moving in two weeka though to Connecticut.



Well, there are two I know, one on e 116 st called the shehbaz mosque after Malcolm x and the other one on 3rd ave and 90 something street, is that the one you are talking about?


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## KingMamba

iPhone said:


> They gonna have it this year? With ramazaan and all.



I don't know perhaps. 



iPhone said:


> Well, there are two I know them, one on e 116 st called the shehbaz mosque after Malcolm x and the other one on 3rd ave and 90 something street, is that the one you are talking about?



He talking about ICC NYC.


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## iPhone

Well, If they have the parade then sounds good for the meet up


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## Trisonics

One one hand there seems to be a sincere talk on Islamophobia while on the other there are talks about a meet between people of Pakistani origin. What is with the rabid disregard to life. How can one talk about a meet on a thread that is discussing a massacre of civilians? You guys are something...


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## KingMamba

iPhone said:


> Well, If they have the parade then sounds good for the meet up



Alright if anything lmk if I can make it that day sure.



Trisonics said:


> One one hand there seems to be a sincere talk on Islamophobia while on the other there are talks about a meet between people of Pakistani origin. What is with the rabid disregard to life. How can one talk about a meet on a thread that is discussing a massacre of civilians? You guys are something...



Hey hey in our defense we were a part of the gun culture talk.


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## Irfan Baloch

Sashan said:


> Between that, I like the newly coined word "Domestic terrorism". Not sure it will stay as a superficial term or will have wide ramification like application of terror laws if ever someone is caught alive.



very true,
I have my doubts if it will stay
maybe the good police chief would have to take his words back.
because as far as Americans are concerned (well most of the west for that matter) terrorism = Islam.

just think for a moment, this guy or that guy who splayed the cinema goers some time ago could have been in the US military, killing the brown "I" - raaqis or Afgans and getting all the praise and hail by American blowhards for defending American freedom. (if in doubt then look up the tributes and praise for the American kill teams who collect body parts of Iraqi and Afghan civilians) 

the American military recruiters would be kicking themselves for not identifying these killers soon enough and enlisting them in the army to send off to distant lands to defend American freedom... what a waste..

imagine that.


this incident reminds me that madness, hatred or downright bigotry has no specific race, religion or ethnicity. man is an animal at root no matter how much socially evolved. he is only more creative now and can think of far more reasons to resort to violence against intruders in his feeding grounds or turf".

in short, be i or any religious fanatic or an athirst fascist from east or west, for me they are all worthless piece of trash and I despise them equally.


since no "Muslim" connection has been established to this shooting "yet". I see media is in a bit of a fix on how to play it. but sadly rest assured, Al Qaeda will give the Western media enough opportunities to blame Islam once again for any future violence.
until then lets join together and grieve for the innocent loss of life

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## Twain

Desert Fox said:


> Secondly, its nothing to do with guns. More people are shot in NYC where guns are highly illegal and no one is even allowed to own one, while in states where there are more legal guns per person crime rate is considerably low.



wrong, guns are not highly illegal in NYC. You have to get a license but they are not even close to illegal. The highest rate pf gun deaths per 100,000 people happen in states with loose gun laws, states like montana, wyoming and nevada


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## danger007

shooter identified as former US soldier.... moron


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## VCheng

Excerpt from: Sources name alleged gunman in Wisconsin temple shooting - CNN.com



> The man who shot six people to death and wounded three others during a rampage at a Sikh temple in a Milwaukee suburb was *an Army veteran who may have been a white supremacist*, according to a law enforcement source involved in the investigation.
> 
> *Law enforcement sources familiar with the investigation named him Monday as Wade Michael Page, 40.* One law enforcement official said he owned the gun used in the shooting legally.
> 
> *He had apparently served on active duty, a U.S. official familiar with his record said.* The source declined to give further details.
> .


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## Rafi

A guy filled with hate, a neo-Nazi - burn in hell mutha-fkr


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## Bhairava

R..I.P.



Abingdonboy said:


> I'm sorry but the whole "it's not guns that kill people, people kill people" is utter BS used by gun activists to justify their views.



Same as "Religion does not kill people, its the followers who kill".

Double Standard ?

That being said, I am not an advocate for a gun-culture especially in ghairat ridden societies like India.


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## Bhairava

Oscar said:


> Would it have been ok either way?
> IF the redneck was stupid enough to mistake Sikhs for Muslims.. that does not take away the presence of Islamophobia from this case.


I dont think he meant it was ok to kill some Muslims.

Just the views of that neighbour as to what could have been the motive,

Offtopic :



Karachiite said:


> I like how some people are saying they were probably mistaken for Muslims. So if the shooter attacked a mosque, it would be perfectly ok?



If an asteroid is heading towards earth and you have the power to control it - either the vatican or some remote village in africa what would you chose ? Why blame people for normal human reaction that would care for the near ones first and then the rest of the society ?


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## Jango

The guy was a former psychologist.

Maybe a trip to Afghanistan screwed him up, and he let loose after storing up some anger and then mistaking Sikhs for Muslims.


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## Abu Zolfiqar

pretty dishonorable action on his part


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## Irfan Baloch

B*stard is named and identified as ex Army veteran and a white supremacist
may he rot in hell



http://www.defence.pk/forums/americ...te-supremacist-named-shooter.html#post3274397

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Karachiite said:


> I like how some people are saying they were probably mistaken for Muslims. So if the shooter attacked a mosque, it would be perfectly ok?



exactly my thought....such BS

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## Al-zakir

Sikh or no Sikh, all are equal to white supremacist. They dislike everyone except white. He knew what he killed.


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## Irfan Baloch

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> exactly my thought....such BS



the CNN is now running a religious lesson on its website going through the pain of explaining how Sikhs are different from Muslim and why they shouldn't be confused with Muslims next time.

then it is giving examples where Sikhs were mistaken for Muslims, at no point there is any word of criticism for the killer ...



Abu Zolfiqar said:


> exactly my thought....such BS



Sadly, the Sikhs are forced to wave placards saying that they are not Muslims

thats the height of their frustration and heartlessness of the general American mindset that victims have to plead not to be mistaken for Muslims

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## Abu Zolfiqar

"next time you want to kill Muslims, here is how you will be able to differentiate"

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## solkahn

I am WADE MICHEAL PAGE and i am NOT A TERRORIST but a savior of by the people ,for people UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
SHAME ON YOU Calling your selves civilized 
And SHAME on CNN that this BIAS and MALIGNING of NOT calling him a terrorist should End


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## KingMamba

Some eyewitness claimed there was 4 gunmen dressed in black. Some people are claiming this was a false flag operation and that Obama is trying to abolish the 2nd amendment by causing shooting in "swing" states (Colorado and Wisconsin). Same thing happened in Aurora some witnesses claimed there was additional shooters. 

Take it for what you will.


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## Irfan Baloch

KingMamba93 said:


> Some eyewitness claimed there was 4 gunmen dressed in black. Some people are claiming this was a false flag operation and that Obama is trying to abolish the 2nd amendment by causing shooting in "swing" states (Colorado and Wisconsin). Same thing happened in Aurora some witnesses claimed there was additional shooters.
> 
> Take it for what you will.



the killer had 9/11 tatooed on himself so he was clearly after revenge. clearly suggests mistaken identity but for a moment think about it

even if it was a local mosque and the victims were Muslims even then they were innocent as far as 9/11 atrocity is concerned. and now think about it that how many of his colleagues in iraq and Afghanistan have the similar mentality and are killing civilians where there is no media coverage.

if American media has some backbone then it should look into the details of his active service in combat zones, how many civilians did he neutralized? American warmongering has created a beast that in the end is going to bite itself when it comes home.


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## RazPaK

From my experience, Sikhs will direct their anger towards Muslims more than the killers.


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## karan.1970

Irfan Baloch said:


> the CNN is now running a religious lesson on its website going through the pain of explaining how Sikhs are different from Muslim and why they shouldn't be confused with Muslims next time.
> 
> then it is giving examples where Sikhs were mistaken for Muslims, at no point there is any word of criticism for the killer ...
> 
> Sadly, the Sikhs are forced to wave placards saying that they are not Muslims
> 
> thats the height of their frustration and heartlessness of the general American mindset that victims have to plead not to be mistaken for Muslims



Are you serious??.. Are they saying go ahead and kill bearded men, but make sure they are Muslims first.. Morons... What the **** is wrong with the world...


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## Markus

Irfan Baloch said:


> the killer had 9/11 tatooed on himself so he was clearly after revenge. clearly suggests mistaken identity but for a moment think about it
> 
> even if it was a local mosque and the victims were Muslims even then they were innocent as far as 9/11 atrocity is concerned. and now think about it that how many of his colleagues in iraq and Afghanistan have the similar mentality and are killing civilians where there is no media coverage.
> 
> if American media has some backbone then it should look into the details of his active service in combat zones, how many civilians did he neutralized? American warmongering has created a beast that in the end is going to bite itself when it comes home.



Even right after 9/11, there were many attacks on Sikhs because they were mistaken for Muslims.

Sad to know that even after 11 years, Sikhs are still mistaken for Muslims.

And even more worse is that even after dispatching Osama to HELL, these guys are still not done. This is not a good sign.


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## KingMamba

Irfan Baloch said:


> the killer had 9/11 tatooed on himself so he was clearly after revenge. clearly suggests mistaken identity but for a moment think about it
> 
> even if it was a local mosque and the victims were Muslims even then they were innocent as far as 9/11 atrocity is concerned. and now think about it that how many of his colleagues in iraq and Afghanistan have the similar mentality and are killing civilians where there is no media coverage.
> 
> if American media has some backbone then it should look into the details of his active service in combat zones, how many civilians did he neutralized? American warmongering has created a beast that in the end is going to bite itself when it comes home.



Instead we have CNN shamelessly trying to imply that they should attack Muslims instead. Still some witness claimed there was more than 1 shooter it should be investigated more thoroughly. 

I have a cousin who is currently in the US military and one who served before. From their experience they tell me how hard it is on the soldiers in countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. To live in a country where you don't know the language and can't tell apart friendly from foe really takes a toll on people. They are trained to fight soldiers not civilians some as young as 12-13 who believe they are fighting occupiers. Then when they finally get some relieve from duty they are immediately called back for another tour and this happens 2 or 3 more times until they eventually break. Once they get home they are disregarded and often suffer from PTSD, going on unchecked until something as tragic as this happens. It really is a shame.



Markus said:


> Even right after 9/11, there were many attacks on Sikhs because they were mistaken for Muslims.
> 
> Sad to know that even after 11 years, Sikhs are still mistaken for Muslims.
> 
> And even more worse is that even after dispatching Osama to HELL, these guys are still not done. This is not a good sign.



If he was really a white supremacist like it is being implied then he wouldn't be much of a fan of Sikhs either. I doubt he would be regretting who he shot right about now if he hadn't been taken down.



RazPaK said:


> From my experience, Sikhs will direct their anger towards Muslims more than the killers.



No man I don't think they will. One witness said they weren't mad just confused no one expects this type of thing to happen to them. From my interactions with Sikhs here they are all cool with Muslims, many Sikhs work construction here in NYC with Muslim companies you probably already know.


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## Karachiite

I'm pretty sure the terrorist knew what he was doing. He was in the army, pretty sure he planned this for weeks. Sikhs were probably the only minorities in his area. Next time before giving other countries lectures on religious intolerance and persecution, America should look at it self first.


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## Irfan Baloch

karan.1970 said:


> Are you serious??.. Are they saying go ahead and kill bearded men, but make sure they are Muslims first.. Morons... What the **** is wrong with the world...



look up the website mate

there is a lesson on Sikhs and how to distinguish them from Muslims

with reports of victims saying "stop violence/ discrimination against Sikhs" .. I cant blame the victims thats the least they can expect from the bigots. turn the anger on someone else.


following is the link gvien in the main news to help God fear White American patriots on how to distinguish between 2 brown people with the beard and turban as Muslim or a Sikh 

Explainer: Who are Sikhs and what do they believe? &#8211; CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs
it took Americans a while to disclose the identity of the killer. had he been an Asian looking person and with Muslim roots, the word Al Qaeda and Muslim terrorism would have been shot by the media from the moment this news broke out.

there is a misunderstanding about the "tragedy" as well. the tragedy seems to be that the 9/11 tattooed gunman's killing spree was a "misdirected" hate crime.


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## Al-zakir

RazPaK said:


> From my experience, Sikhs will direct their anger towards Muslims more than the killers.



There were couple of Sikhs over in news channel trying to convey message to domestic terrorists that Sikhs are American friendly and how they are not Muslims as if it will be some how justified to target Muslims. 

I did not support incidents took place over Sikh temple but after listen to some sick( Sikh) ...........well..........!

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## Mirza Jatt

Al-zakir said:


> There were couple of Sikhs over in news channel trying to convey message to domestic terrorists that Sikhs are American friendly and how they are not Muslims as if it will be some how justified to target Muslims.
> 
> I did not support incidents took place over Sikh temple but after listen to some sick( Sikh) ...........well..........!



what makes you think that they are saying that to make it justified to target muslims ??

Anyone whose life is in danger, will try his best to get himself out of that danger...more so if he is being targetted by MISTAKE. 
No ones wants to die someone else's death. Sikhs are not conbveying a message that targetting muslims is Okay..they are making it clear to every one..that they need to understand that Sikhs are differenty and Muslims are different...why should they be msiatken for Muslims and killed....BTW i can easily abuse Muslims by tweaking their name, the way you did in your post..but honestly we cant go to that level.

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## Al-zakir

Mirza Jatt said:


> they are making it clear to every one..that they need to understand that Sikhs are differenty and Muslims are different...why should they be msiatken for Muslims and killed....BTW i can easily abuse Muslims by tweaking their name, the way you did in your post..but honestly we cant go to that level.




Fact of the matter is, skin head was white supremacist. He wasn't going after Muslim rather brown skin Sikhs taking over his neighborhoods. He hate your existence thus took some measure of his own to eliminate some. You should be pointing finger at people like him instead of focusing and directing other terrorists toward us.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

this is the gunman....just by looking at him u could tell he is khatarnak


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## Irfan Baloch

Mirza Jatt said:


> what makes you think that they are saying that to make it justified to target muslims ??



BBC News - Sikhs shock at Wisconsin temple shooting

watch the linked video specially the end bit.
the guy is upset that Sikhs are begin targeted for bearing resemblance with Muslims. him being a victim I can understand that and can forgive him for implying that Islam is a terrorist religion but what I rally fail to see in all this is that there is no unqualified condemnation of the violence. 

I hear you, no one wants to die for someone else. but why any one should die like that eh??

why not just condemn and stop such killing and stop such mindset hmmm?

why not just condemn violence against anyone regardless of his faith? eh?

do you know why such "mistakes" are happening? because people today are choosing to react basing on who is the culprit and who is the victim.

why dont we expect the American law enforcement agencies and their leaders to ensure that there is NO violence against the innocent civilians.. Full Stop!!!


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## Mirza Jatt

Al-zakir said:


> Fact of the matter is, skin head was white supremacist. He wasn't going after Muslim rather brown skin Sikhs taking over his neighborhoods. He hate your existence thus took some measure of his own to eliminate some. You should be pointing finger at people like him instead of focusing and directing other terrorists toward us.



As said earlier no is directing any terrorists towards you and no one is focussed on you. we are just focussed on us and saving our own lives. We do not know what the terrorist who attacked the gurudwara wanted. wether he wanted brown sikhs our mistaken sikhs for some other group/community or religion ...we have been targetted in the past for the mistake of identities by these terrorists thus we do not want to be targetted again. Moreover even if I agree to you for a moment that this was not the case where the skin head targetted us msitakenly thinking us as muslims...still what sthe guarantee that it will not happen in the future what has happened in the past ?? why would us and why should we be known as Muslims if we are sikhs?



Irfan Baloch said:


> BBC News - Sikhs shock at Wisconsin temple shooting
> 
> watch the linked video specially the end bit.
> the guy is upset that Sikhs are begin targeted for bearing resemblance with Muslims. him being a victim I can understand that and can forgive him for implying that Islam is a terrorist religion but what I rally fail to see in all this is that there is no unqualified condemnation of the violence.
> 
> I hear you, no one wants to die for someone else. but why any one should die like that eh??
> 
> why not just condemn and stop such killing and stop such mindset hmmm?
> 
> why not just condemn violence against anyone regardless of his faith? eh?
> 
> do you know why such "mistakes" are happening? because people today are choosing to react basing on who is the culprit and who is the victim.
> 
> why dont we expect the American law enforcement agencies and their leaders to ensure that there is NO violence against the innocent civilians.. Full Stop!!!



every one is condemning the incident...from Muslims to ikhs to Pakistanis to Indians. No one in his right senses would justify these killing or killings of any muslim...but the man in the video is too terrified as he has been targetted...so you can never blame him...tell me if in any other day when things are normal...wether sikhs say that..never.,,they raise this topic only when they are in fear that some fool might attack them believing them to be a muslim.

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## RazPaK

Mirza Jatt said:


> As said earlier no is directing any terrorists towards you and no one is focussed on you. we are just focussed on us and saving our own lives. We do not know what the terrorist who attacked the gurudwara wanted. wether he wanted brown sikhs our mistaken sikhs for some other group/community or religion ...we have been targetted in the past for the mistake of identities by these terrorists thus we do not want to be targetted again. Moreover even if I agree to you for a moment that this was not the case where the skin head targetted us msitakenly thinking us as muslims...still what sthe guarantee that it will not happen in the future what has happened in the past ?? why would us and why should we be known as Muslims if we are sikhs?



That's very cowardly.


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## Mirza Jatt

RazPaK said:


> That's very cowardly.



thayt very foolish of you to say that.Its perfectly normal to keep ouselves safe...and not take the hits meant for others.

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## MilSpec

Sikhs/muslims/hindus/buddhits/jews should be given CCW permits more often, and for heavens sake have a few armed guards at the gate


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## agamdilawari

RazPaK said:


> *From my experience*, Sikhs will direct their anger towards Muslims more than the killers.



So a Sikh has already done that to u in past ? If not then what are your basis for this bullcrap assumption ?

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## Abu Zolfiqar

sandy_3126 said:


> Sikhs/muslims/hindus/buddhits/jews should be given CCW permits more often, and for heavens sake have a few armed guards at the gate



its a sad day when America requires armed guards @ religious places


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## S_O_C_O_M

Alleged Sikh temple killer had a long history in the white-power rock scene: civil rights watchdog  - NY Daily News


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## majja gamma

S_O_C_O_M said:


> Alleged Sikh temple killer had a long history in the white-power rock scene: civil rights watchdog* - NY Daily News




its americans like these pshyco case hilly billy job less hobos sexual predators having fetish for dead bodies and gore and rape....americans family upbringing is very poor....where the head of house has girlfriends he beats his wife in front of neighbours and postmen....do drugs...watch dog the bounty hunter and you will know what i am talking about......cheating,extra martial affairs....lack of ideology...is all that makes them killers and terrorists and make them support landgrabbers and wage wars all around the globe.....

as i have already pointed out most sickest and bizarre and inhumane comments on ******** come from americans and i dont need to prove it...you all know it..........one wonders if a human being can laugh and mock the misery of another fellow human being...it is these very american who then join the american armed forces...they fly helicopters and drive tanks....

then they run killing squads mutilitatin bodies collecting war sovereners and then in abu gharib their sexual predator nature gets exposed in gitmo to where they fulfil their sick fantasies........



sandy_3126 said:


> Sikhs/muslims/hindus/buddhits/jews should be given CCW permits more often, and for heavens sake have a few armed guards at the gate



jews??are you serious...they already running the american country.....they own nukes and raptor and abram tanks...why would they want to own a handgun permit?


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## Patriot

Al-zakir said:


> There were couple of Sikhs over in news channel trying to convey message to domestic terrorists that Sikhs are American friendly and how they are not Muslims as if it will be some how justified to target Muslims.
> 
> I did not support incidents took place over Sikh temple but after listen to some sick( Sikh) ...........well..........!


Same here - I saw the same bigoted minded sikhs on internet forums trying to tell Americans that Sikhs are not Muslims (Is it ok to kill Muslims?) I don't feel any sympathy for them now.


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## agamdilawari

majja gamma said:


> its americans like these pshyco case hilly billy job less hobos sexual predators having fetish for dead bodies and gore and rape....americans family upbringing is very poor....where the head of house has girlfriends he beats his wife in front of neighbours and postmen....do drugs...watch dog the bounty hunter and you will know what i am talking about......cheating,extra martial affairs....lack of ideology...is all that makes them killers and terrorists and make them support landgrabbers and wage wars all around the globe.....
> 
> as i have already pointed out most sickest and bizarre and inhumane comments on ******** come from americans and i dont need to prove it...you all know it..........one wonders if a human being can laugh and mock the misery of another fellow human being...it is these very american who then join the american armed forces...they fly helicopters and drive tanks....
> 
> then they run killing squads mutilitatin bodies collecting war sovereners and then in abu gharib their sexual predator nature gets exposed in gitmo to where they fulfil their sick fantasies........



And then people accuse westerners of generalizing Muslims when people here themselves are generalizing Americans


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## Bhairava

Patriot said:


> Same here - I saw the same bigoted minded sikhs on internet forums trying to tell Americans that Sikhs are not Muslims (Is it ok to kill Muslims?) I don't feel any sympathy for them now.



Dude Sikhs are indeed not Muslims. They are Sikhs. 

Any human will obviously care for their own before caring for others.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

BBC News - Wisconsin Sikh temple gunman had 'white power links'









> US authorities have said they are investigating reports that a gunman who killed six people at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin had white supremacist links.
> 
> Wade Michael Page, 40, who was gunned down by police during the attack near Milwaukee, reportedly performed in a white-power music group.
> 
> Five men and a woman died in the shooting. Three others including a policeman remain in critical condition.
> 
> The FBI is treating the attack as a possible domestic terrorism case.
> 
> Police chief John Edwards said they believe Page was the only shooter.
> 
> *'Frustrated neo-Nazi'*
> 
> Five men a woman aged between 39 and 84 were fatally shot at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin.
> 
> Four people were found dead inside the building, and two were outside. Page was also killed outside the temple.
> 
> Chief Edwards said police officer Lieutenant Brian Murphy, 51, had been tending to a victim at the scene when he was "ambushed" by the gunman.
> 
> Lt Murphy was shot eight or nine times at "very close range", but was expected to recover.
> 
> A civil rights group, the Southern Poverty Law Center, has described Page as a "frustrated neo-Nazi".
> 
> The organisation said that in 2010 Page told a white supremacist website that he had been part of the white-power music scene since 2000.
> 
> He left his native Colorado and joined a skinhead band, End Apathy, in 2005, the civil rights organisation said.
> 
> Page entered the Wisconsin Sikh Temple temple in Oak Creek on Sunday morning and opened fire as dozens of people were preparing for a service.
> 
> He used a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, which was recovered at the scene. The weapon was purchased legally, authorities said.
> 
> *'Patterns of misconduct'*
> 
> US officials said Page was a former US Army member who was discharged for "patterns of misconduct" after being reduced in rank from sergeant to specialist. He was declared ineligible to re-enlist.
> 
> He was reportedly disciplined in June 1998 for being drunk on duty.
> 
> A former psychological operations specialist and a Hawk Missile System repairman, he served in the US Army between April 1992 and October 1998, ending his career at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
> 
> On Sunday night, the authorities searched Page's house in the town of Cudahy, a few miles from the temple.
> 
> The Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek was founded in 1997 and is said to have a congregation of about 400 worshippers.
> 
> Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who is himself a Sikh, spoke of his shock on Monday at the shooting.
> 
> "That this senseless act of violence should be targeted at a place of religious worship is particularly painful," Mr Singh said.
> 
> Dozens of Sikhs have protested the shootings in New Delhi.
> 
> Police in New York and Chicago said they had taken additional measures to monitor Sikh temples in those cities.
> 
> Wisconsin, which passed a law in 2011 allowing citizens to carry a concealed weapon, has some of the most permissive gun laws in the US.

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## agamdilawari

Patriot said:


> Same here - I saw the same bigoted minded sikhs on internet forums trying to tell Americans that Sikhs are not Muslims (Is it ok to kill Muslims?) I don't feel any sympathy for them now.



Einstein, did anyone anywhere said its ok to target particular community/religion ? Or is it ur super brain farting all such thoughts. They said Sikhs are different from Muslims. Were they wrong ? In many threads I see many Pakistanis clarifying how much they are different from Indians. Are they wrong ? Have some light dinner from next time....bcz unlike normal cases, ur brain is doing the farting business here.

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## majja gamma

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> BBC News - Wisconsin Sikh temple gunman had 'white power links'



sir he looks like dudley boys an american wrestler in wwe........

one can see hate in his eyes...brainwashed countrey man of abraham lincoln.......the founding fathers of americans would be ashmed if this happend in 1776.......well one cant blame such terrorists....since their founding fathers were all about terrorism too......

founding fathers of america....they came from spain and europe they killed and land grabbed america in the name of discovery...they killed the real americans(red indians) millions of them and sent back the gold to europe.........then later on the french and britisher fought with one another..........these morons named it civil war.....when in fact these thugs were on and the same from within and they were just fighting for land.........then they declared an independece act in 1776....lol....as if the original owners of america the red indians had enslaved them and they got free and they declared independece.....

so if one sees their history.....this appears that they have been fooling the rest of world from early times....


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## Irfan Baloch

Mirza Jatt said:


> As said earlier no is directing any terrorists towards you and no one is focussed on you. we are just focussed on us and saving our own lives. We do not know what the terrorist who attacked the gurudwara wanted. wether he wanted brown sikhs our mistaken sikhs for some other group/community or religion ...we have been targetted in the past for the mistake of identities by these terrorists thus we do not want to be targetted again. Moreover even if I agree to you for a moment that this was not the case where the skin head targetted us msitakenly thinking us as muslims...still what sthe guarantee that it will not happen in the future what has happened in the past ?? why would us and why should we be known as Muslims if we are sikhs?
> 
> 
> 
> every one is condemning the incident...from Muslims to ikhs to Pakistanis to Indians. No one in his right senses would justify these killing or killings of any muslim...but the man in the video is too terrified as he has been targetted...so you can never blame him...tell me if in any other day when things are normal...wether sikhs say that..never.,,they raise this topic only when they are in fear that some fool might attack them believing them to be a muslim.



I understand what situation the Sikh guy is. I wont blame the families of the victim even who would be cursing Muslims because the 9/11 crusader struck them instead of some Mosque etc.

my issue is with the Western Media, how its smartly moving the discussion away from actual terrorist act. 
just like Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims and Buddhists of the subcontinent living in America are also peaceful and loving people and want to get along with their lives.

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## Safriz

Bhairava said:


> Dude Sikhs are indeed not Muslims. They are Sikhs.
> 
> Any human will obviously care for their own before caring for others.


 

Its seems these people telling potential mass murderers that next time if they want to go on shooting spree,go kill muslims..
Although there was no involvement of muslims here,why even mention muslims?



neutral_person said:


> Isnt that true? Pakistanis here on PDF keep liking to clarify they are not Indians, which is true. Similarly, Sikhs are not Muslims, which is also true.


 
True,...but these people instead of condemning the act are trying to give potential gunmen an alternative target....muslims.
Is that ok?

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## S_O_C_O_M

its amazing how these indians on here have perfected the straw man tactic


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## RazPaK

Sikhs can try all they want to differentiate muslims from themselves, but at the end of the day they will still be attacked for sporting beards and turbans.

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## neutral_person

Safriz said:


> Shows sikh mentality.....
> 
> Its sameas these people telling potential mass murderers that next time if they want to go on shooting spree,go kill muslims..
> Although there was no involvement of muslims here,why even mention muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> *True,...but these people instead of condemning the act are trying to give potential gunmen an alternative target....muslims.
> Is that ok?*



I am not a Sikh, but a Hindu/Atheist. As far as the issue goes and how much I understand, they have condenmed the act as much as it can be condenmed. They are definitely trying to disaccociate themselves with terror.

Muslims have done the same thing, as far as I have noticed in my life. Post 9/11, I remember the religious Muslims that used to come with beards to school started shaving to not associate themselves with Osama Bin Laden. I even had Pakistani/Bangladeshi friends (and there are quite a few of them here in Toronto) get angry when white people in school bullied them for being terrorists, going as far as pointing out that Osama was a Saudi/Afghan and had nothing to do with them. How you want to interpret that is up to you.

The bottom line is, when something bad happens, people try their hardest to not associate themselves with it, especially if their race/religion/ethinicity is similar to it. Muslims have done it too, and so do Sikhs.


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## Trisonics

Please stop with the "is it ok to kill Muslims part of the argument". For one, nobody said that. People are reading between the lines. If one sees it just as what the Sikhs have gone through, its not impossible to see the "mistaken identity" part. Why people attack or want to attack Muslims in the US is a different debate all together and has nothing to do with what has happened here. 

The new details actually point to a guy who believed in white supremacy. Muslim, Hindu, Sikh have little do with this. All of us would be targets in his eyes, even the ones that consider themselves "Whites" from S.Asia.

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## ashokdeiva

RazPaK said:


> Sikhs can try all they want to differentiate muslims from themselves, but at the end of the day they will still be attacked for sporting beards and turbans.


areea baba, this is not some thing about religious, the gun shoot out was a result of jelous on the SIKH community performing well and out running the locals.
this is just a hate crime against a community for out smarting the other and becoming the dominant community.
its not affiliated to religion or stuff as you post


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## xyxmt

Safriz said:


> Shows sikh mentality.....
> 
> Its sameas these people telling potential mass murderers that next time if they want to go on shooting spree,go kill muslims..
> Although there was no involvement of muslims here,why even mention muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> True,...but these people instead of condemning the act are trying to give potential gunmen an alternative target....muslims.
> Is that ok?



Thats because they are being told by authorities that you got hit because Killer thought you were muslim, an easy escape for them. So, now the genius Sikhs instead of asking authorities why it happened blaming it on muslims. The fact is he is a white supermist who was going to kill anyone who looks different and who would look more different than a Sikh.

We Muslim dont care, when it comes it comes and it seems like this time it wasnt for us


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## Trisonics

xyxmt said:


> Thats because they are being told by authorities that you got hit because Killer thought you were muslim, an easy escape for them. So, now the genius Sikhs instead of asking authorities why it happened blaming it on muslims. The fact is he is a white supermist who was going to kill anyone who looks different and who would look more different than a Sikh.
> 
> We Muslim dont care, when it comes it comes and it seems like this time it wasnt for us



Stop with the nonsense. Until today, the identity of the killer was not known. It is a fact that Sikhs have been victims of mistaken identity in the past and hence it was one of the plausible reasons. Everything else in your post is an attempt to pose as a victim when no Muslims were killed or injured. What are you trying to prove?


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## Bhairava

Trisonics said:


> Please stop with the "is it ok to kill Muslims part of the argument". For one, nobody said that. People are reading between the lines..



Too much victim hood and siege mentality have gone into their brains to see the point people are making.

It aint rocket science to figure out that Sikhs are mistaken for arabs because of their turban, beards and wheatish complexion. And Sikhs are 100% justified in saying they are not what the skin-heads think them to be.

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## Safriz

neutral_person said:


> I am not a Sikh, but a Hindu/Atheist. As far as the issue goes and how much I understand, they have condenmed the act as much as it can be condenmed. They are definitely trying to disaccociate themselves with terror.
> 
> Muslims have done the same thing, as far as I have noticed in my life. Post 9/11, I remember the religious Muslims that used to come with beards to school started shaving to not associate themselves with Osama Bin Laden. I even had Pakistani/Bangladeshi friends (and there are quite a few of them here in Toronto) get angry when white people in school bullied them for being terrorists, going as far as pointing out that Osama was a Saudi/Afghan and had nothing to do with them. How you want to interpret that is up to you.
> 
> The bottom line is, when something bad happens, people try their hardest to not associate themselves with it, especially if their race/religion/ethinicity is similar to it. Muslims have done it too, and so do Sikhs.



You aregument is irrelevant and way too complicated..

Let me make things simple for yoiu..In this incident there was no involvement of muslims what so ever..A man came and shot innocent people based at their ethnicity/Religion..

Is it fine to divert these terrorists towards muslims?



Bhairava said:


> Let me ask you a simple question -
> 
> An asteroid is heading for earth and it is poe is mecca. Now assume you have the power to divert it onto, say a village in argentina. Would you do it or would you not ?



My answer..

You need to sleep..


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## Bhairava

Safriz said:


> You aregument is irrelevant and way too complicated..
> 
> Let me make things simple for yoiu..In this incident there was no involvement of muslims what so ever..A man came and shot innocent people based at their ethnicity/Religion..
> 
> Is it fine to divert these terrorists towards muslims?



Who said anything about diverting. You are only fooling yourself if you think Sikhs were attacked for being Sikhs. A common miconception in US redneckville is that Sikhs are Arabs.



Safriz said:


> My answer..
> 
> You need to sleep..



NO deflection please. Answer it. You have a choice between mecca and a remote argentinian village. Which would you chose ?


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## Mirza Jatt

RazPaK said:


> The attitude of the sikhs on this forum shows their mentality. We as muslims should not care. *It will happen again too.*



the bolded part shows attitude of muslims on this forum...and later they cry when things are said against Islam.




RazPaK said:


> Sikhs can try all they want to differentiate muslims from themselves, but at the end of the day they will still be attacked for sporting beards and turbans.



thanks for acknowledging that Sikhs will be attacked again because of the the beard and turbans which is so much like muslims...thus we hope mulims stop bashing sikhs for trying to let the world know that they are not muslims.

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## S_O_C_O_M

there is no evidence that the shooter wanted to kill muslims. he was a white supremacist. sikhs are brown, not white so they perfectly fit in his hate agenda. yet every sikh on the news keeps on trying to distinguish themselves from Muslims. 

*And here is the enterance to the sikh temple. it clearly states what type of house of worhip this is. Not anywhere does it say Muslim. *

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## Safriz

Bhairava said:


> NO deflection please. Answer it. You have a choice between mecca and a remote argentinian village. Which would you chose ?



I dont answer stupid questions..Jog off..

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## neutral_person

Bhairava said:


> Who said anything about diverting. You are only fooling yourself if you think Sikhs were attacked for being Sikhs. A common miconception in US redneckville is that Sikhs are Arabs.
> 
> 
> 
> NO deflection please. Answer it. You have a choice between mecca and a remote argentinian village. Which would you chose ?



Mistaking Sikhs for Arabs is nothing. White people cant tell the difference between non-white races at all - to them its either brown, black or east asian. A Sri Lankan friend once got called an "Arab terrorist" by a white guy once 

In their defence, I guess we re not able to tell the difference betwen whites in Norway,Italy, Uk, Germany, Spain, etc.


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## Safriz

S_O_C_O_M said:


> there is no evidence that the shooter wanted to kill muslims. he was a white supremacist. sikhs are brown, not white so they perfectly fit in his hate agenda. yet every sikh on the news keeps on trying to distinguish themselves from Muslims.
> 
> *And here is the enterance to the sikh temple. it clearly states what type of house of worhip this is. Not anywhere does it say Muslim. *



Now all those apologetics must commit suicide..
Why would a LOCAL gunman think this is muslim place of worship..whnen it is writeen in big letters "Sikh Temple"


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## Mirza Jatt

Safriz said:


> Shows sikh mentality.....
> 
> Its sameas these people telling potential mass murderers that next time if they want to go on shooting spree,go kill muslims.



As if the potential mass murderers will stop killing their victims if sikhs dont tell the world that they are not muslim 



> Although there was no involvement of muslims here,why even mention muslims



because sikhs have been attacked inamerica several times by terrorists thinking them to be muslims.


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## Irfan Baloch

race issue is involved because the killer was white supremacist but there is a religious hate angle involved as well as suggested by Police, the guy was supporting 9/11 tattoo. the recent surge in attack on sikhs post 9/11 was because of their resemblance to Muslims

because the bigots like this guy, wont even case to stop and investigate the differences between Muslims and Sikhs. for them we are both worthy of hatred for being brown and supporting a beard. 

@Trisonics 

you are right, none of you is suggesting that killing Muslims instead would have been ok. but media is being a real villain here instead of going into details about the killer and his association with fascists, it appears to be educating the brain dread farthead hill billies on how NOT to confuse Sikhs as Muslims.

trust me, I take this tragedy as a personal one because it well could have happened to us and we would have been seething with anger and you guys would have been consoling us and some trolling and having a laugh over it.

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## neutral_person

Safriz said:


> You aregument is irrelevant and way too complicated..
> 
> Let me make things simple for yoiu..In this incident there was no involvement of muslims what so ever..A man came and shot innocent people based at their ethnicity/Religion..
> 
> Is it fine to divert these terrorists towards muslims?
> 
> 
> 
> My answer..
> 
> You need to sleep..



Let me make it simple for you, there could be two reasons why the Sikh temple was attacked:
1) the man shot them probably because Sikhs look like Osama Bin Laden. 
2) Shot the temple because it was not "white"

Traditionally, Sikhs have been targetted for reason number 1. They are just trying to distance themselves from this stereotype.



Safriz said:


> Now all those apologetics must commit suicide..
> Why would a LOCAL gunman think this is muslim place of worship..whnen it is writeen in big letters "Sikh Temple"



Killer was wearing a "Never Forget 9/11" tattoo. He certainly mistook Sikhs for Muslims.


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## Trisonics

Safriz said:


> Now all those apologetics must commit suicide..
> Why would a LOCAL gunman think this is muslim place of worship..whnen it is writeen in big letters "Sikh Temple"



What about the sikhs who were a genuine case of mistaken identity? Kill that insecurity in you. Until yesterday it was considered a case of mistaken identity. Even the American media hinted so...only because it has happened before.


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## Bhairava

Safriz said:


> I dont answer stupid questions..Jog off..



Exactly what I thought. 

You just don't have the moral compass to complain when you would do the exact same.

It's time for you to jog off sonny.


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## Safriz

neutral_person said:


> Let me make it simple for you, there could be two reasons why the Sikh temple was attacked:
> 1) the man shot them probably because Sikhs look like Osama Bin Laden.
> 2) Shot the temple because it was not "white"
> Traditionally, Sikhs have been targetted for reason number 1. They are just trying to distance themselves from this stereotype.
> Killer was wearing a "Never Forget 9/11" tattoo. He certainly mistook Sikhs for Muslims.



So basically you are saying that 
1 . killing innocent muslims on the basis of 9/11 is fine?

2. Its fine toi be so damn ignorant that you dont know the difference between a mosque and a sikh temple despite the place being sign posted as Sikh temple.

3. Its fine for an ignorant white supremacist to kill non white people.....Its just that they should kill muslims only.


Good mentality you got there...


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## neutral_person

S_O_C_O_M said:


> there is no evidence that the shooter wanted to kill muslims. he was a white supremacist. sikhs are brown, not white so they perfectly fit in his hate agenda. yet every sikh on the news keeps on trying to distinguish themselves from Muslims.
> 
> *And here is the enterance to the sikh temple. it clearly states what type of house of worhip this is. Not anywhere does it say Muslim. *




Killer was wearing a "Never Forget 9/11" tattoo.


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## Bhairava

neutral_person said:


> Mistaking Sikhs for Arabs is nothing. White people cant tell the difference between non-white races at all - to them its either brown, black or east asian. A Sri Lankan friend once got called an "Arab terrorist" by a white guy once.
> 
> In their defence, I guess we re not able to tell the difference betwen whites in Norway,Italy, Uk, Germany, Spain, etc.



And hence it becomes all the more important to raise awareness of who Sikhs are...something these Paks dont want..for Allah know what reason.


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## Bhairava

Irfan Baloch said:


> race issue is involved because the killer was white supremacist but there is a religious hate angle involved as well as suggested by Police, the guy was supporting 9/11 tattoo. the recent surge in attack on sikhs post 9/11 was because of their resemblance to Muslims



It's not even because of resemblance to Muslims...but more precisely to Arabs.


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## S_O_C_O_M

neutral_person said:


> Killer was wearing a "Never Forget 9/11" tattoo. He certainly mistook Sikhs for Muslims.



don't choose to ignore the important aspect of my post. you've been written off as an irrevelant troll.


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## Safriz

neutral_person said:


> Killer was wearing a "Never Forget 9/11" tattoo.



and Army takes Ignorant people? This man has served in US army....He is sure to be able to read and write...
A man who served in Army is sure to know the difference between Sikh and muslim..
Wake up and smell coffee..


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## S_O_C_O_M

self delete


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## neutral_person

Safriz said:


> So basically you are saying that killing innocent muslims on the basis of 9/11 is fine?



No, that is a stupid thing you guys come out with out to nowhere. I am saying that Sikhs have a right to let them know that they are not Muslims, no different than moderate Muslims that try to distance themselves from 9/11 by claiming that they are not Arab or that they do not agree with Osama Bin Laden's views. Ultimately, the blame lies in the white supremacist. 

No one in this thread has ever said that killing innocent Muslims is fine, and I definitely dont support that. But there have been a few comments by RazPak and SOCOM along the lines of "the Sikhs deserved it and we dont care". This is why you guys always end up soiling your name.


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## Bhairava

Emmie said:


> Pathetic analogy there!
> 
> Nevertheless if I have the power to divert it I would divert it onto a place where there're no people if no such land then would prefer it to land onto my house. For sure wouldn't divert it onto, say Vatican city or Haridwar.



Nope. I just gave two choice..Either mecca or some village in argentina..And 100/100 muslims would chose the argentinian village and personally I wont fault your for that for mecca is your everything in a spiritual sense.

My only point - stop complaining when others too do that and especially when it is common sense that there was a religious/race hate angle involved in this shooting.


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## Trisonics

Irfan Baloch said:


> race issue is involved because the killer was white supremacist but there is a religious hate angle involved as well as suggested by Police, the guy was supporting 9/11 tattoo. the recent surge in attack on sikhs post 9/11 was because of their resemblance to Muslims
> 
> because the bigots like this guy, wont even case to stop and investigate the differences between Muslims and Sikhs. for them we are both worthy of hatred for being brown and supporting a beard.
> 
> @Trisonics
> 
> you are right, none of you is suggesting that killing Muslims instead would have been ok.* but media is being a real villain here instead of going into details about the killer and his association with fascists, it appears to be educating the brain dread farthead hill billies on how NOT to confuse Sikhs as Muslims.*
> 
> trust me, I take this tragedy as a personal one because it well could have happened to us and we would have been seething with anger and you guys would have been consoling us and some trolling and having a laugh over it.



Irfan,

What you get to see and hear is not the complete truth. While its true that the case of mistaken identity was broadcasted it is also true that the same media made multiple attempts not to make this a Muslim thing.
just like how OBL does not represent the entire Muslim community, one guy does not represent the entire White community. What happened should be mourned by all non whites not just sikhs. The issue is being over blown here...when seriously absolutely nothing close to what is being interpreted here has happened.


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## Irfan Baloch

Mirza Jatt said:


> As if the potential mass murderers will stop killing their victims if sikhs dont tell the world that they are not muslim
> 
> 
> 
> because sikhs have been attacked inamerica several times by terrorists thinking them to be muslims.



Miza you have made your point already. please dont respond to these posts any more
Sikhs are a grieving party here and they got nothing to justify.

till today, oriental looking people get attacked on the eve of pearl harbour attack by demented Americans. 
the problem lies with American mentality, the condemnation is very customary and half hearted. its only on the incident not on the mindset and thats something which is disturbing.

I will like to point out something else to you as well. some Muslims seem to be aggressive and crude in their posts here but they are also worried about next possible attack and there is a possibility that this time that the killer or killers wont make any mistakes.


*MY POLITE REQUEST TO ALL PEOPLE TO STOP ACCUSING SIKHS.
*they are the victims here so please be mindful of your remarks.
hopefully you understand

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## Mirza Jatt

Safriz said:


> and Army takes Ignorant people? This man has served in US army....He is sure to be able to read and write...
> A man who served in Army is sure to know the difference between Sikh and muslim..
> Wake up and smell coffee..



he has also been expelled from the US army...so your claim that since he is from army he is smart and not ignorant...goes down the drain.

moreover...you dont know americans..they are fools of thetop level...even the most educated ones do not know where is India or pakistn located wether on east or in west...yes..unbelievable right..but thats americans for you....and if you still belive that there was not a religious angle here...may be you should read post no 256 by Irrfan baloch.


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## Emmie

Bhairava said:


> Nope. I just gave two choice..Either mecca or some village in argentina..And *100/100* muslims would chose the argentinian village and personally I wont fault your for that for mecca is your everything in a spiritual sense.
> 
> My only point - stop complaining when others too do that and especially when it is common sense that there was a religious/race hate angle involved in this shooting.



Wrong! See I didn't so logically it makes 99/100.

Actually I grabbed your point but you surely couldn't pick what I implied lately.

Again, If I being a trigger-happy guy point a gun at you - would you point me another sitting duck? leave other option aside.


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## Safriz

Mirza Jatt said:


> he has also been expelled from the US army...so your claim that since he is from army he is smart and not ignorant...goes down the drain.
> 
> moreover...you dont know americans..they are fools of thetop level...even the most educated ones do not know where is India or pakistn located wether on east or in west...yes..unbelievable right..but thats americans for you....and if you still belive that there was not a religious angle here...may be you should read post no 256 by Irrfan baloch.


 
Ok then better stop wearing turbans and shave your beards.
You lot been trying to make it clear that sikhs are not muslims since 9/11 and thats about 13 years of hard work gone down the drain.


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## Bhairava

Emmie said:


> Wrong! See I didn't so logically it makes 99/100.
> 
> Actually I grabbed your point but you surely couldn't pick what I implied lately.
> 
> Again, If I point a gun at you - *would you point me another sitting duck?* leave other option aside.



I would if the gun was pointed at me mistakenly thinking I was someone else...and so would you. And its isnt rocket science to know that Sikhs are mistakenly thought of as Arabs by these white folks in redneckville. So if a skinhead with "Never forget 9/11" tatoo comes up, I would say, at the top of my voice, I am not an Arab. Think what you think of the Sikhs..least of their concerns.

_p.s.:- I see you have not made your choice to the question I asked and instead deflected._


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## Safriz

At times like this all peace loving people should unanimously condemn tgese acts if mass murdering innocents.
But you lot are out looking for escape goats and excuses for the killer ,good luck with that.

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## Bhairava

Safriz said:


> Ok then better stop wearing turbans and shave your beards.
> You lot been trying to make it clear that sikhs are not muslims since 9/11 and thats about 13 years of hard work gone down the drain.



Sikhs were not muslims (or even Hindus) for the last 500 odd years. And instead of asking them to shave their beards why not stop the activities that are causing these attacks ?


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## A1Kaid

The culprit was in the US Army for several years, his job in the Army dealt with foreign people, he most likely knew the difference between a Sikh and other people of other religions, in spite the Sikhs at this Temple thinking it's a case of "mistaken identity" that caused this on them.


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## Juice

majja gamma said:


> sir he looks like dudley boys an american wrestler in wwe........
> 
> one can see hate in his eyes...brainwashed countrey man of abraham lincoln.......the founding fathers of americans would be ashmed if this happend in 1776.......well one cant blame such terrorists....since their founding fathers were all about terrorism too......
> 
> founding fathers of america....they came from spain and europe they killed and land grabbed america in the name of discovery...they killed the real americans(red indians) millions of them and sent back the gold to europe.........then later on the french and britisher fought with one another..........these morons named it civil war.....when in fact these thugs were on and the same from within and they were just fighting for land.........then they declared an independece act in 1776....lol....as if the original owners of america the red indians had enslaved them and they got free and they declared independece.....
> 
> so if one sees their history.....this appears that they have been fooling the rest of world from early times....


 Came from Spain? When did you drop out of kindergarten?

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## Irfan Baloch

may the dead rest in peace

may this day never ever happen to any community including Sikh, Hindu or Muslim in the west
lets pray for the dead and hope for a safe and peaceful future
(forced to close thread due to continued inappropriate posts)

terrorism has no religion or race.. the gunman proved it.. may he rot in hell



Rafi said:


> I hope you are joking - you mad man.



it is good that he deleted his massage himself. it was going to be removed anyway
because this forum shall never ever be used to propagate or encourage terrorism and violence against other countries or people.

posters must bear in mind that whatever they post can have consequences and if needed. Admin will provide full support to local authorities in order to apprehend anyone who supports violence or terrorism against other people.

Disclaimer | Pakistan Defence

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