# Pakistan approves Gwadar port transfer to China



## Edevelop

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Wednesday approved a deal transferring from Singapore to China the management of the strategically located deep-sea Gwadar port on the Arabian Sea.

China provided about 75 per cent of the initial $250 million in funding for the construction of the port in Pakistan&#8217;s southwestern province of Balochistan.

It is currently being operated by Singapore&#8217;s PSA International, but needs further development work to become fully operational. According to PSA&#8217;s Gwadar website, there has been no ship in the port since November.

&#8220;The cabinet today gave approval to transfer Gwadar port operations from Port of Singapore to Chinese Overseas Port Holdings Limited,&#8221; Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira told reporters.

&#8220;Both the companies have settled their deal,&#8221; he said, without giving a timetable for the transfer.

Kaira said that Singapore&#8217;s PSA International could not develop or operate Gwadar &#8220;as desired&#8221; and said he hoped that under new management the port would soon contribute to Pakistan&#8217;s flagging economy.

&#8220;The Chinese will make more investment to make the project operational,&#8221; Kaira said.

China, one of Pakistan&#8217;s closest allies and its main arms supplier, has also funded ports in Sri Lanka and has been approached to help build a port in Bangladesh.

Pakistan&#8217;s former defence minister Ahmad Mukhtar said in May 2011 that China had agreed to take over port operations at Gwadar.

He also said Islamabad would be &#8220;more grateful to the Chinese government if a naval base was being constructed at the site of Gwadar for Pakistan&#8221;. At the time, China&#8217;s foreign ministry said it was unaware of any such request.

Pakistan approves Gwadar port transfer to China | Pakistan | DAWN.COM

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## Pakchina

A milestone has been reached between our two nations, China and Pakistan against Scatland, Western racism and bullying.

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## beijingwalker

Pakistan approves port transfer from S'pore to China
Posted: 30 January 2013 2203 hrs 



> ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Wednesday approved a deal transferring from Singapore to China the management of the strategically located deep-sea Gwadar port on the Arabian Sea.
> 
> China provided about 75 percent of the initial $250 million in funding for the construction of the port in Pakistan's southwestern province of Baluchistan.
> 
> It is currently being operated by Singapore's PSA International, but needs further development work to become fully operational. According to PSA's Gwadar website, there has been no ship in the port since November.
> 
> "The cabinet today gave approval to transfer Gwadar port operations from Port of Singapore to Chinese Overseas Port Holdings Limited," Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira told reporters.
> 
> "Both the companies have settled their deal," he said, without giving a timetable for the transfer.
> 
> Kaira said that Singapore's PSA International could not develop or operate Gwadar "as desired" and said he hoped that under new management the port would soon contribute to Pakistan's flagging economy.
> 
> "The Chinese will make more investments to make the project operational," Kaira said.
> 
> *China, one of Pakistan's closest allies and its main arms supplier, has also funded ports in Sri Lanka and has been approached to help build a port in Bangladesh.*
> 
> Pakistan's former defence minister Ahmad Mukhtar said in May 2011 that China had agreed to take over port operations at Gwadar.
> 
> He also said Islamabad would be "more grateful to the Chinese government if a naval base was being constructed at the site of Gwadar for Pakistan". At the time, China's foreign ministry said it was unaware of any such request.
> 
> -CNA/ac

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## beijingwalker

*Gwadar Port*









> Gwadar Port is located at the apex of the Arabian Sea and at the mouth of the Persian Gulf, approximately 460 km (290 mi) west of Karachi, 75 km (47 mi) east of Pakistan's border with Iran and 380 km (240 mi) km northeast of the nearest point in Oman across the Arabian Sea. It is situated on the eastern bay of a natural hammerhead-shaped peninsula protruding into the Arabian Sea from the coastline.
> 
> Gwadar Port is situated near the strategic Strait of Hormuz and its busy trading and oil shipping lanes. The surrounding region is home to around two-thirds of the world's oil reserves. It is also the nearest warm-water seaport to the landlocked, but energy rich, Central Asian Republics and landlocked Afghanistan.

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## beijingwalker

Railway link to Gwadar 



> Pakistan Railways linked to Trans Railway Network (TARN). Fibre-optic line, oil & gas pipeline rail track linking Karakorum Highway to Gawadar. A six-member committee comprising equal number of experts from both China and Pakistan has been constituted to move forward with the project. China has already prepared a feasibility report of laying a railway track in the difficult terrain of Karakoram linking both the states through Khunjarab Pass.
> 
> Pre-feasibility work on the proposed railway line has been completed, Pakistani Ambassador to China Masood Khan told the China.org website in an interview published on Thursday.
> 
> &#8220;This new link will enhance the economic ties between China and Pakistan as well as create a new link between East and South Asia.&#8221;
> 
> The planned railway line runs from Kashgar, the old Silk Road town in China&#8217;s far-western Xinjiang region, through the Khunjerab pass in *** and on to Havelian, where it will join Pakistan&#8217;s railway network.
> 
> China is also widening and repaving the Karakoram Highway, which runs from Kashgar through *** to Pakistan, While work on the Chinese side has been completed, China is assisting Pakistan in a $500-million effort to repave and widen the highway in Pakistan and in ***.

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## Edevelop



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## beijingwalker

A great game begins as China takes control of Gwadar port
Syed Fazl-e-Haider
Oct 7, 2012 


> Gwadar is an important coastal town in Balochistan. The port has the potential to serve as a secure outlet as well as a storage and transshipment hub for the Middle East and Central Asia oil and gas supplies through a well-defined corridor passing through Pakistan. China has contributed about $198 million (Dh727 million) of the initial investment for the port project.
> 
> Under the development plan, Gwadar port will be connected with China's western province of Xinjiang through rail and road links. China's eastern seaboard ports are 3,500 kilometres away from the city of Kashgar in western China, whereas the distance from Kashgar to Gwadar is only 1,500 kilometres. *The port facilities are thought to be ideal for China's booming economy. Even if Chinese companies and exporters handle their own cargo, it would make Gwadar port one of the busiest in the region.*
> 
> *Gwadar gives China a land-based oil supply port that is not controlled by superior US naval power*. The first thing China is supposed to do as operator is to relaunch the Gwadar oil refinery project, which was halted in 2009, probably because of security concerns in the volatile province. The refinery will have a total capacity of 19 million tonnes of oil per year. The petroleum products produced in Gwadar refinery may be transported to Kashghar in western China by pipeline. The proposed refinery and the oil pipeline is actually a part of a planned Pakistan-China energy corridor.
> 
> *Gwadar port, through the proposed energy and trade corridors, gives western China access to the sea. Crude oil imports from Iran, the Arab Gulf states and Africa could be transported overland to north-west China through the port.*
> 
> China considers Gwadar very important for its oil trade, as the present choke point is the Strait of Hormuz, which is becoming congested. In particular, a strategic pipeline from Gwadar to China's borders enables Beijing to import oil from Saudi Arabia. In 2006, King Abdullah reportedly asked Islamabad to help Saudi Arabia to extend oil exports to China.
> 
> China is the world's second largest importer of oil, with 80 per cent of imports going through the unsafe Strait of Malacca. A railroad and oil pipeline linking Gwadar with Kashi in western China provides Beijing with the shortest possible route to the oil-rich Middle East, *avoiding the Strait of Malacca and the dangerous maritime routes through the South China Sea, the East China Sea and the Yellow Sea.* Chinese engineers have already completed a feasibility study for a railroad and oil pipeline, which would enable Gwadar to handle most of the oil tankers headed to China.
> 
> The operational control of the port will also enable the dragon to swim in the Indian Ocean, which is strategically important for China as it expands its influence across the region. To ensure the security of shipments along existing routes,* a Chinese naval presence at Gwadar could also patrol the Indian Ocean sea lanes. *What upsets Washington and New Delhi is the Chinese naval presence near the Strait of Hormuz and its strategy of building a "string of pearls" presence on the Indian Ocean rim.
> 
> The US considers Chinese presence in Gwadar a threat to its fleet in the Middle East and also to the strategic oil trade to the Far East and Europe. The US military bases on the Arabian Peninsula expect an interception threat to their communications from Chinese bases in Gwadar.

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## Audio

Why is there no tourism here? It looks like fishery, fishery and more fishery. Such a picturesque land strip, it would look brilliant with hotels. Mountains in the back could serve for bycicle paths, rock-climbing etc, desert beyond the city for dune buggies....

You really don't appreciate what you have.

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## Edevelop

^^ Not safe.
Anyhow, does this remind you of something you have in the U.S ?

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## Rizwan Alam

Audio said:


> Why is there no tourism here? It looks like fishery, fishery and more fishery. Such a picturesque land strip, it would look brilliant with hotels. Mountains in the back could serve for bycicle paths, rock-climbing etc, desert beyond the city for dune buggies....
> 
> You really don't appreciate what you have.



Dying to go there and other places in Balochistan but you know what our Policies have done to us, can not even travel freely in our own country

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## Stealth

*GOOD WORK!*


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## SHAMK9

Audio said:


> Why is there no tourism here? It looks like fishery, fishery and more fishery. Such a picturesque land strip, it would look brilliant with hotels. Mountains in the back could serve for bycicle paths, rock-climbing etc, desert beyond the city for dune buggies....
> 
> You really don't appreciate what you have.


Gwadar is not developed enough yet, right now, its a port city in middle of no where, it had a luxury hotel which closed down due to lack of tourism. How ever, development is on the full swing, new airport, schools, hospitals, etc.

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## Rizwan Alam

On Topic,

Good decision!


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## Audio

SHAMK9 said:


> Gwadar is not developed enough yet, it had a luxury hotel which closed down due to lack of tourism.



You need to bugger the Chinese to invest in more then just the industrial port. And to come on vacation to spend some yuan!

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## Safriz

Now watch the Mountain monkeys (BLA) go ape on this..
Every little brats in Baluchistan thinks that the whole province is their property..."Baap kii Jageer".

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## beijingwalker



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## KingMamba

Safriz said:


> Now watch the Mountain monkeys (BLA) go ape on this..
> Every little brats in Baluchistan thinks that the whole province is their property..."Baap kii Jageer".



Punjabis need to kick some sense into the Baloch, saar paar chariaya wah hai. 



Audio said:


> You need to bugger the Chinese to invest in more then just the industrial port. And to come on vacation to spend some yuan!



When the work is done tourism will follow.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I'm telling you guys Pakistan is sit on the most important geopolitic and geostrategic location in the current situation, it's a cross road to many energy roads either China, India...no wonder people call Pakistan as *PIPE-kistan*...Pakistan will make billions of royalty over enery transportation across the country for decade to come, hope Pakistan don't miss the window of opportunity.

If Pakistan properly manage this golden opportunity, it will be a huge boost to national economy and make itself as one of the whealty country of South Asia.

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## KingMamba

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I'm telling you guys Pakistan is sit on the most important geopolitic and geostrategic in the current situation, it a cross road to many energy roads either China, India...no wonder people call Pakistan as *PIPE-kistan*...Pakistan will make billions of royaly over enery transportation across the country for decade to come, hope Pakistan don't miss the window of opportunity.
> 
> If Pakistan properly manage this golden opportunity, it will be a huge boost to national economy and make itself as one of the whealty country of South Asia.



You are right all Pakistan needs is leadership to benefit immensly. When Gwadar is done the benefits will be huge for both China and Pakistan.

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## UmarJustice

China can make a difference here. 

Gawadar has the potential to be second most powerful city after Karachi.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Audio said:


> You need to bugger the Chinese to invest in more then just the industrial port. And to come on vacation to spend some yuan!



Gwadar is the only gate way to get to Middle east for western section of China, once this link to China is fully operational, alot of opportunity will present by itselfs.

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## Audio

KingMamba93 said:


> When the work is done tourism will follow.



Some pretty hard core idealism. 

Dont make any delusions, this is only to bypass Malacca straits in case of war, although i have a difficult time imagining Gwadar unloading as much goods as a few Chinese heavy industry/container ports. 

Similarly, due to Chinese policy of non intrusion they won't do anything to remedy the safety which as far as i understand the biggest obstacle for development. You (Pakistan) will have to do this by themselves. You will have to do something anyway, the rail-line looks like it is going through FATA, though i can be wrong. Ain't no free rides in this world.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Gwadar is the only gate way to get to Middle east for western section of China, once this link to China is fully operational, alot of opportunity will present by itselfs.



What i wrote above can function as an answer to you as well.

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## KingMamba

Audio said:


> Some pretty hard core idealism.
> 
> Dont make any delusions, this is only to bypass Malacca straits in case of war, although i have a difficult time imagining Gwadar unloading as much goods as a few Chinese heavy industry/container ports.
> 
> Similarly, due to Chinese policy of non intrusion they won't do anything to remedy the safety which as far as i understand the biggest obstacle for development. You (Pakistan) will have to do this by themselves. You will have to do something anyway, the rail-line looks like it is going through FATA, though i can be wrong. Ain't no free rides in this world.
> 
> 
> 
> What i wrote above can function as an answer to you as well.



Who is this "you" you keep referring to, I am not in position of power in Pakistan to do anything you just stated. If I was though we wouldn't be having this conversation right now as the port would already be up and running. Also some say the Chinese will be building a naval base there as well although I do not know how much merit this has. If the Chinese are really trying to bypass the straight of Malaca than they will protect their investment. I know the Chinese do not do anything out of the kindness of their hearts, I doubt any of the CCP even have a heart. I think Pakistan will also spend some of its dough to get this upstarted but I do not even think the port itself is complete yet so the railway link is probably still in its initial stages.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Audio said:


> Some pretty hard core idealism.
> 
> Dont make any delusions, this is only to bypass Malacca straits in case of war, although i have a difficult time imagining Gwadar unloading as much goods as a few Chinese heavy industry/container ports.
> 
> Similarly, due to Chinese policy of non intrusion they won't do anything to remedy the safety which as far as i understand the biggest obstacle for development. You (Pakistan) will have to do this by themselves. You will have to do something anyway, the rail-line looks like it is going through FATA, though i can be wrong. Ain't no free rides in this world.
> 
> What i wrote above can function as an answer to you as well.



It's not delusion nor hard core idealism, China sure know the future importance of Pakistan that why we invest on the port and road infrastructure, the only concern is that some foreign powers will try to put stick on Pakistan's wheel preventing it from progress.

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## KingMamba

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Gwadar is the only gate way to get to Middle east for western section of China, once this link to China is fully operational, alot of opportunity will present by itselfs.



Gwadar will also be the port CAR states would turn to in order to facilitate their own trade. Iran should also ask Pakistan about making roads linking their port Chahbahar to Gwadar by land as well as sea, it would faciliate cross border trade between Iran and Pakistan.



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> It's not delusion nor hard core idealism, China sure know the future importance of Pakistan that why we invest on the port and road infrastructure, the only concern is that some foreign powers will try to put stick on Pakistan's wheel preventing it from progress.



You guys would not spend so much money if you did not plan on guarding it, is the Myanmar pipeline to China started yet? Some Pakistanis were talking about a naval base in Gwadar for China, is there any talks about this in China??


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## Audio

KingMamba93 said:


> Who is this "you" you keep referring to



Figure of speach. Sorry..



KingMamba93 said:


> Pakistan will also spend some of its dough to get this upstarted but I do not even think the port itself is complete yet so the railway link is probably still in its initial stages.



It's already working, but it looks like it has 2 cranes only.

gwadar - Google Maps



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> It's not delusion nor hard core idealism, China sure know the future importance of Pakistan that why we invest on the port and road infrastructure, the only concern is that some foreign powers will try to put stick on Pakistan's wheel preventing it from progress.



I believe Gwadar is important because it is the port that most easily connects to western China, which the CCP is trying to industrialize in order to spread the wealth, which has mostly been on the coast so far.
With most easily i mean distance, the fact that it is in a friendly country etc.


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## Globenim

For my personal understanding, did Beijing snatch it away from Singapore or has Singapore just wasted the opportunity or given upon it? Id like to know how Singapore reacts to this. As a loss? With hostility? Could not bother less?


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## Abingdonboy

cb4 said:


>



String of pearls has turned out to be a fallacy.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

KingMamba93 said:


> Gwadar will also be the port CAR states would turn to in order to facilitate their own trade. Iran should also ask Pakistan about making roads linking their port Chahbahar to Gwadar by land as well as sea, it would faciliate cross border trade between Iran and Pakistan.
> 
> You guys would not spend so much money if you did not plan on guarding it, is the Myanmar pipeline to China started yet? Some Pakistanis were talking about a naval base in Gwadar for China, is there any talks about this in China??



Man as I said Pakistan's potential is beyond description, beside what I mentionned above, CAR states, Afghanistan and Iran connections are other way for Pakistan to do business and earn income...and if the rail extend from Kashgar to Iran then Middle east, Pakistan will be king of the silk road and money will fallen from sky 

as for Myanmar, the pipe supposely operational this may. as for using Gwadar as naval base...that i have no clue.

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## True pakistani 22

Good Move by Pakistan And China


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## Machoman

cb4 said:


> ^^ Not safe.
> Anyhow, does this remind you of something you have in the U.S ?



Yup Arizona Grand Canyon............lol

I think China should also make a small airbase over there.....

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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> Punjabis need to kick some sense into the Baloch, saar paar chariaya wah hai.



why do you bring punjabis every now and then, are you out of your mind?

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## KingMamba

Abingdonboy said:


> String of pearls has turned out to be a fallacy.



How do you suppose??


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## darkinsky

Audio said:


> Why is there no tourism here? It looks like fishery, fishery and more fishery. Such a picturesque land strip, it would look brilliant with hotels. Mountains in the back could serve for bycicle paths, rock-climbing etc, desert beyond the city for dune buggies....
> 
> You really don't appreciate what you have.



yup u r right, it has potential tourism value, not for any bikini girls though

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## Abu Zolfiqar

Rizwan Alam said:


> Dying to go there and other places in Balochistan but you know what our Policies have done to us, can not even travel freely in our own country



thank the leaders (which some brain-dead slave mentality idiots keep rallying behind) for feudal or material reasons

the potential of Gwadar to be a cash cow for Balochistan/Pakistan is immense. It can create millions of jobs and turn the least developed Province of the nation into the most prosperous and developed. 

the issues/blockades are several......mostly political ones, but also some external "rivals" and enemies who don't want to see the plan in action -- which is why they try to arm and support terrorists to instill fear and uncertainty.

it's worth mentioning that NONE of the rival ports in the region (2 which come to mind) offer an all-season warm deep sea port the way Gwadar does


does anyone know the terms regarding this transfer to PRC?

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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> why do you bring punjabis every now and then, are you out of your mind?



Stop blaming Punjabis and I won't bring them up, the Baloch leaders say punjabis try to dominate Balochistan which is why they are underdeveloped.



Machoman said:


> Yup Arizona Grand Canyon............lol
> 
> I think China should also make a small airbase over there.....



A naval base would be enough for the Chinese to protect their investments.


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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> Stop blaming Punjabis and I won't bring them up, the Baloch leaders say punjabis try to dominate Balochistan which is why they are underdeveloped.
> 
> 
> 
> A naval base would be enough for the Chinese to protect their investments.



you are an american, start behaving like one and stop talking on behalf of punjabis and all non sense coming out of your mouth, baloch are as much pakistanis as punjabis are

stop your regional bias right here

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## Abingdonboy

KingMamba93 said:


> How do you suppose??



Perhaps a more appropriate term would be- the String of pearls has turned out to be a non-starter.


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## KingMamba

Abingdonboy said:


> Perhaps a more appropriate term would be- the String of pearls has turned out to be a non-starter.



I don't disagree with you, I am just not educated on the matter. Which is why I asked for details.


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## Audio

SHAMK9 said:


> Gwadar is not developed enough yet, right now, its a port city in middle of no where, it had a luxury hotel which closed down due to lack of tourism. How ever, development is on the full swing, new airport, schools, hospitals, etc.



Making one luxury hotel for a start was a mistake imho. Rich people come once, they spend then they go somewhere else. What is needed is middle class hotels with decent service so that lower to middle class guests who cannot afford to go outside Pakistan come year after year.
Once you establish a decent name for yourself, you continue with conference tourism and similar, gradually adapting services and personnel for guests with higher expectations.

This is a strategy that has worked for 40 years in the lesser known parts of the Mediteranean.

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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> you are an american, start behaving like one and stop talking on behalf of punjabis and all non sense coming out of your mouth, baloch are as much pakistanis as punjabis are
> 
> stop your regional bias right here



I have enough family in Punjab to still care about what goes on in Pakistan, how about you worry about Karachi. I never said Baloch are not Pakistani lol, don't put words into my mouth and the person who I quoted (Safriz) can understand what I meant.


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## Audio

darkinsky said:


> yup u r right, it has potential tourism value, not for any bikini girls though



Your loss..

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## KingMamba

Audio said:


> Making one luxury hotel for a start was a mistake imho. Rich people come once, they spend then they go somewhere else. What is needed is middle class hotels with decent service so that lower to middle class guests who cannot afford to go outside Pakistan come year after year.
> Once you establish a decent name for yourself, you continue with conference tourism and similar, gradually adapting services and personnel for guests with higher expectations.
> 
> This is a strategy that has worked for 40 years in the lesser known parts of the Mediteranean.



You are right on this part.


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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> I have enough family in Punjab to still care about what goes on in Pakistan, how about you worry about Karachi. I never said Baloch are not Pakistani lol, don't put words into my mouth and the person who I quoted (Safriz) can understand what I meant.



i have to worry about entire pakistan and not just karachi, but you my fellow should start worrying about your own country and stop worrying about place you dont live

you have taken an oath of american patriotism, not you being from punjab which is part of pakistan means nothing, or if you worry about punjab worry about your own childhood place, and stop talking about pakistan its our matter not yours

dont burden your little head with things you dont understand

alright?

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## KingMamba

Globenim said:


> For my personal understanding, did Beijing snatch it away from Singapore or has Singapore just wasted the opportunity or given upon it? Id like to know how Singapore reacts to this. As a loss? With hostility? Could not bother less?



I think there was a thread about this on the forum somewhere, that singapore agreed to this and China wanted to be in the front scene of the development. Something along those lines.



darkinsky said:


> i have to worry about entire pakistan and not just karachi, but you my fellow should start worrying about your own country and stop worrying about place you dont live
> 
> you have taken an oath of american patriotism, not you being from punjab which is part of pakistan means nothing, or if you worry about punjab worry about your own childhood place, and stop talking about pakistan its our matter not yours
> 
> alright?



Okay I will not talk about Pakistan no more with you. Do not respond to this and I will not talk to you, fair enough?


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Audio said:


> Making one luxury hotel for a start was a mistake imho. Rich people come once, they spend then they go somewhere else. What is needed is middle class hotels with decent service so that lower to middle class guests who cannot afford to go outside Pakistan come year after year.
> Once you establish a decent name for yourself, you continue with conference tourism and similar, gradually adapting services and personnel for guests with higher expectations.
> 
> This is a strategy that has worked for 40 years in the lesser known parts of the Mediteranean.



damn should hire you as consultant for the Gwadar port development


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## Abingdonboy

KingMamba93 said:


> I don't disagree with you, I am just not educated on the matter. Which is why I asked for details.


In the sense that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. As such if the string of pearls policy was meant to encirlce and contain India it has only spurred India's own "look East" policy which has borne fruits in the sense the IN has berthing rights in Vietnam now and India has extremely warm and growing relations with Japan and S.Korea not to mention most Asian nations in and around the Pacific-rim are looking to expand ties with India. Additionally India has fortified its Indian Ocean position with increased deployments and upgradation of the remote A&N islands not to mention expanding ties with smaller IOR nations and those nations on the IOR rim. 


Whereas the talk of 2-3 years ago was String of pearls this, SoP that- today it is by all accounts irrelevant.

Let's also not forget China's plans for their own backyard have gone seriously awry.


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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> I think there was a thread about this on the forum somewhere, that singapore agreed to this and China wanted to be in the front scene of the development. Something along those lines.
> 
> 
> 
> Okay I will not talk about Pakistan no more with you. Do not respond to this and I will not talk to you, fair enough?



you dont have to talk about pakistan with any body esp with your idiotic tone, alright stop pretending to be a pakistani, you will understand lately that you are not one!


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## Abu Zolfiqar

Gentlemen - stop fighting.


what are the terms of this agreement? 


as for Naval base - well i am one of the many proponents calling for some of the naval assets to be re-located to Gwadar though at the end of the day it's the Govt/Navy/JCSC that can determine whether its needed

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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> you dont have to talk about pakistan with any body esp with your idiotic tone, alright stop being a pakistani, you will understand lately that you are not one!



Okay I am not a Pakistani because his majesty emperor darkinsky has declared it so. However I will still be visiting Punjab whenever I feel like as an American and will let his imperialness darkinsky know when my flight will be touching down in Lahore beforehand so he can stop me.  InshAllah I will be making a trip a trip sometime this year, I will pm you the date and my flight number so you can do bring your band baaja.


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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> Okay I am not a Pakistani because his majesty emperor darkinsky has declared it so. However I will still be visiting Punjab whenever I feel like as an American and will let his imperialness darkinsky know when my flight will be touching down in Lahore beforehand so he can stop me.  InshAllah I will be making a trip a trip sometime this year, I will pm you the date and my flight number so you can do bring your band baaja.



i dont have any authority to stop you , stop being a fool, thats not what im implying, im saying you talk about punjab as much as you want, but dont talk about pakistan alright?, and stop pretending to behave as a pakistani

its a fact that you are not, stop have dual personality issue, you are either representing american interest here or a pakistani interest here

sorry to say but i got what you said about baloch and balochistan and punjab and i got very much offended and the comment you brought in punjab, you are just trying to create a fight between two pakistanis here

you can go and visit you punjab in india and talk about punjabis ruling india or what ever the blah blah and stupidity coming out of your mouth and see how indian punjabis treat you

im not a pakistani punjabi but if i were i would react in the same way

do you get my point bro?


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## KingMamba

Abingdonboy said:


> In the sense that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. As such if the string of pearls policy was meant to encirlce and contain India it has only spurred India's own "look East" policy which has borne fruits in the sense the IN has berthing rights in Vietnam now and India has extremely warm and growing relations with Japan and S.Korea not to mention most Asian nations in and around the Pacific-rim are looking to expand ties with India. Additionally India has fortified its Indian Ocean position with increased deployments and upgradation of the remote A&N islands not to mention expanding ties with smaller IOR nations and those nations on the IOR rim.
> 
> 
> Whereas the talk of 2-3 years ago was String of pearls this, SoP that- today it is by all accounts irrelevant.
> 
> Let's also not forget China's plans for their own backyard have gone seriously awry.



I always though China was looking for alternative routes to bypass IN in the straight of Malacca. Not necessarily trying to encircle India but just outright avoid crossing paths with them.  I do not think the Chinese seriously expect to ever be able to dominate IN in the Indian Ocean, that would be absurd.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Abingdonboy said:


> In the sense that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. As such if the string of pearls policy was meant to encirlce and contain India it has only spurred India's own "look East" policy which has borne fruits in the sense the IN has berthing rights in Vietnam now and India has extremely warm and growing relations with Japan and S.Korea not to mention most Asian nations in and around the Pacific-rim are looking to expand ties with India. Additionally India has fortified its Indian Ocean position with increased deployments and upgradation of the remote A&N islands not to mention expanding ties with smaller IOR nations and those nations on the IOR rim.
> 
> 
> Whereas the talk of 2-3 years ago was String of pearls this, SoP that- today it is by all accounts irrelevant.
> 
> Let's also not forget China's plans for their own backyard have gone seriously awry.



I don't know who has invented this bullsh1t string pearl, China is interest port development only for economical purpose, we has not use as Naval base,I hope India should get away from thinking that the sole purpose Chinese port development in Indian ocean is to contain India.

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## INDIC

beijingwalker said:


> *Gwadar Port*



Do you really think, Gwadar can connect to Turkmenistan through Iran when Iran is constructing her own North South Corridor between Chabahar and Mashhad.


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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> i dont have any authority to stop you , stop being a fool, thats not what im implying, im saying you talk about punjab as much as you want, but dont talk about pakistan alright?, and stop pretending to behave as a pakistani
> 
> its a fact that you are not, stop have dual personality issue, you are either representing american interest here or a pakistani interest here
> 
> sorry to say but i got what you said about baloch and balochistan and punjab and i got very much offended and the comment you brought in punjab, you are just trying to create a fight between two pakistanis here
> 
> you can go and visit you punjab in india and talk about punjabis ruling india or what ever the blah blah and stupidity coming out of your mouth and see how indian punjabis treat you
> 
> im not a pakistani punjabi but if i were i would react in the same way
> 
> do you get my point bro?



Okay so basically you got irked because I defended the USA in some other thread and now are crying like a clown because I should always side with Pakistan even if they are wrong in any instance?? Since in one thread I am going to assume you are talking about the thread I was in yesterday where I was talking to havizsultan and he asked me why I defended US against Pakistan I took the US point of view since you know it was right in that regard I have forfeited my right to speak about Pakistan at all. 

Yes I get your point, you are a kid who is irked off because I have a different point of view on some issues. What I said about Baloch leaders blaming Punjabis was also right and I will not take that back but by all means you are free to complain about me to whoever you want.


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## INDIC

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> Gentlemen - stop fighting.
> 
> 
> what are the terms of this agreement?
> 
> 
> as for Naval base - well i am one of the many proponents calling for some of the naval assets to be re-located to Gwadar though at the end of the day it's the Govt/Navy/JCSC that can determine whether its needed



Don't you think any Chinese naval base in Gwadar is repeating the same mistake when Pakistan provided military base to America during cold war.


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## darkinsky

KingMamba93 said:


> Okay so basically you got irked because I defended the USA in some other thread and now are crying like a clown because I should always side with Pakistan even if they are wrong in any instance?? Since in one thread I am going to assume you are talking about the thread I was in yesterday where I was talking to havizsultan and he asked me why I defended US against Pakistan I took the US point of view since you know it was right in that regard I have forfeited my right to speak about Pakistan at all.
> 
> Yes I get your point, you are a kid who is irked off because I have a different point of view on some issues. What I said about Baloch leaders blaming Punjabis was also right and I will not take that back but by all means you are free to complain about me to whoever you want.



cut that monkey talk, bullshiitt will you??, i understand what you are upto here dear, and i understand you here fully, dont take me as some kid, yes your comments are very pro american, but i dont think you are being illogical, you are defending your country and even you were born in punjab doesnt automatically make you a pakistani, you are an american citizen and you have taken a vow of defending american values and i have no arguements with that

im pissed off when you started talking crap out your mouth in our internal matters

as i said if you go to india and start talking about punjabi supremacy and taking crap out of every other non punjabi, the indian punjabis will start beating you

stop pretending to be a pakistan which you are not ok

i can talk about anti punjabi stuff or anti other ethnicity stuff here, which im not going to, its none of your business, and i would only talk that stuff to my fellow country men not your rubbish american out here, ok? is it clear enough for you now?

every where you talk about punjab punjab punjab, well punjab is not a free country, its part of pakistan, if you wanna talk about punjab go ahead, but dont ever talk bad about pakistan,


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Don't you think any Chinese naval base in Gwadar is repeating the same mistake when Pakistan provided military base to America during cold war.



Since when China is interested to use Gwadar as naval base? China has never set a base beyong in own boundary, unless China can afford military budget as U.S.A and even that il won't happen in this century.


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## Abingdonboy

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I don't know who has invented this bullsh1t string pearl, China is interest port development only for economical purpose, we has not use as Naval base,I hope India should get away from thinking that the sole purpose Chinese port development in Indian ocean is to contain India.


I agree I feel that the String of Pearls notion was blown up by certain elemants. The devlopments have only ever looked commercial with very little to no Chinese military involvement in any place.

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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Since when China is interested to use Gwadar as naval base? China has never set a base beyong in own boundary, unless China can afford military budget as U.S.A and even that il won't happen in this century.



Chinese may not be interested but everyone seems to be convinced in Pakistan that Chinese built a naval base at Gwadar.


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## KingMamba

darkinsky said:


> cut that monkey talk, bullshiitt will you??, i understand what you are upto here dear, and i understand you here fully, dont take me as some kid, yes your comments are very pro american, but i dont think you are being illogical, you are defending your country and even you were born in punjab doesnt automatically make you a pakistani, you are an american citizen and you have taken a vow of defending american values and i have no arguements with that
> 
> im pissed off when you started talking crap out your mouth in our internal matters
> 
> as i said if you go to india and start talking about punjabi supremacy and taking crap out of every other non punjabi, the indian punjabis will start beating you
> 
> stop pretending to be a pakistan which you are not ok
> 
> i can talk about anti punjabi stuff or anti other ethnicity stuff here, which im not going to, its none of your business, and i would only talk that stuff to my fellow country men not your rubbish american out here, ok? is it clear enough for you now?
> 
> every where you talk about punjab punjab punjab, well punjab is not a free country, its part of pakistan, if you wanna talk about punjab go ahead, but dont ever talk bad about pakistan,



Where have I talked bad about Pakistan?? You are asinine. You sound a like a kid in your comments, I will respond to you as such. Why are you bringing up India when they have nothing to do with anything.. Terii aukaat itnii nai hai joh mujhe Pakistan ke baare me baat karne rauk sakta hai tou. Zaada over naa baan saale agar tumhe mirche laakthi hai mere baatou sain phir paar maat. Funny that I do not see you haram khor *** attacking fauj historian when he says Pakistan needs to become more like America in habit but me saying little to nothing got your temperature rising. Take a hike or report me dikhead if my comments are so insulting for you.
@darkinsky take your complains to webmaster and ask him to tell me what I can and cannot talk about, you are just a two bit kid acting like I grounded you or something. I won't bother responding to you anymore.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Chinese may not be interested but everyone seems to be convinced in Pakistan that Chinese built a naval base at Gwadar.



Even we build naval base will be for Pakistan Navy and not our.


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## Areesh

KingMamba93 said:


> Punjabis need to kick some sense into the Baloch, saar paar chariaya wah hai.



Baloch are our people. No action against them. However appropriate action would be taken against BLA and it would be taken by PA's soldiers which consists of different ethnicity. Not just punjabis. So stop this punjabi-baloch BS.

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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Even we build naval base will be for Pakistan Navy and not our.



Even such measures by China would be enough to mount tensions in the region.


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## Areesh

Gawadar is purely trade and economy. For defense and military base we already have Ormara.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Even such measures by China would be enough to mount tensions in the region.



LOL...what is the problem, Pakistan can't have it own naval base within it own territory?

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## Rafi

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> LOL...what is the problem, Pakistan can't have it own naval base within it own territory?



Some of our indian friends are pure drama queens. 

*PRC*

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## Abingdonboy

Gigawatt said:


> Even such measures by China would be enough to mount tensions in the region.



Don't be alarmist mate- have you seen the IN's own plans? It is setting up 3 MAJOR naval bases (costing $3-5 BN USD EACH) and plenty of smaller (but still sizable) bases not to mention other less publiscesed bases for SSBNs on India's coast. Also India is effectively turning the A&N islands into an Indian military fortress. No one is getting all that concerned about these developments. 

And, as has been said, the Gwadar port is almost soleley for commercial purposes and even if used by military outfits poses very little, if any, threat to India or the wider region.

At a time when the IN is looking to spend $100bn alone in the next 8-10 years purely on modernisation you shouldn't be making out these little devlopments are likely to be all that worrying to a force like the IN.

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## Sasquatch

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Since when China is interested to use Gwadar as naval base? China has never set a base beyong in own boundary, unless China can afford military budget as U.S.A and even that il won't happen in this century.



Overseas bases are only needed if necessary for China, with Most of the crude coming through the Indian Ocean then China will need a Naval base similar to the US base in Bahrain also Bolster Pakistan's Naval capability as well. A naval base in needed, When ? perhaps in 10 or 15 years.



beijingwalker said:


>



If this route is used not all of the crude resources will go through it China has an Arctic route that is shorter and another through Central Asia.

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## INDIC

Abingdonboy said:


> Don't be alarmist mate- have you seen the IN's own plans? It is setting up 3 MAJOR naval bases (costing $3-5 BN USD EACH) and plenty of smaller (but still sizable) bases not to mention other less publiscesed bases for SSBNs on India's coast. Also India is effectively turning the A&N islands into an Indian military fortress. No one is getting all that concerned about these developments.
> 
> And, as has been said, the Gwadar port is almost soleley for commercial purposes and even if used by military outfits poses very little, if any, threat to India or the wider region.
> 
> At a time when the IN is looking to spend $100bn alone in the next 8-10 years purely on modernisation you shouldn't be making out these little devlopments are likely to be all that worrying to a force like the IN.



Gwadar will need decades for becoming a regional economic hub considering that if it is maintained properly. It can't function as a grand port without the railway line and seeing the condition of railways in Pakistan its really doesn't seems plausible. Karwar Naval base would be sufficient to face any challenge coming out of any Chinese military presence in Arabian sea.


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## KingMamba

Areesh said:


> Baloch are our people. No action against them. However appropriate action would be taken against BLA and it would be taken by PA's soldiers which consists of different ethnicity. Not just punjabis. So stop this punjabi-baloch BS.



Sir look what safriz wrote and I responded in that regard, he said every other kid in Balochistan thinks he is owed something and I agreed with him because then when they do not get what they want they blame it on the Punjabi and say Punjabi are trying to steal baloch resources etc. In that regard what I said was 100% correct because punjabis do get blamed for much of Balochistan woes and so punjabis should kick some sense into them by telling them they are the cause of their own problems. The guy who was fighting with me was obviously mad at me for some other comment I made about US-Pakistan relations as he is constantly bringing that up and said I should not talk about Pakistan for that comment. As far as I am concerned he should mind his own business if I bother him that much. I never talked about killing Balochis or anything go through my post history if you must.


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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> LOL...what is the problem, Pakistan can't have it own naval base within it own territory?



Provided that Chinese don't have stakes there.


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## idune

It's a long waited move for economic, trade and strategic development. China has track record of building rail road in record breaking pace in most difficult terrain. Let's hope and wait for best to come.

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## ghilzai

Gigawatt said:


> Provided that Chinese don't have stakes there.



What if they do, what do you intend to do about it?.

Let me rephrase that, what possibly can you do against China?.

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## SHAMK9

Gigawatt said:


> Even such measures by China would be enough to mount tensions in *India*


Fixed that for you.

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## Audio

Hu Songshan said:


> Overseas bases are only needed if necessary for China, with Most of the crude coming through the Indian Ocean then China will need a Naval base similar to the US base in Bahrain also Bolster Pakistan's Naval capability as well. A naval base in needed, When ? perhaps in 10 or 15 years.



You mean raw resources or oil here with the word crude?

In any case, the major users of raw materials/oil aren't in western China, where the railway would connect but on the coast. I dont think it makes a lot of sense to unload in Gwadar, train to China through Pakistan, then again train through the whole of China to the coast on the south east.

It makes a lot more sense that this helps with raw materials the development of western China, some residual effects like transit fees and investment strengthens an ally and last but not least a base as you i think correctly stated. I would also think some sort of radio traffic/satellite data listening post would be set up quite soon, not in 10 or 15 years.


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## haviZsultan

ISLAMABAD: 

The federal cabinet used one of its final meetings to make some key decisions with potentially far-reaching implications for Islamabads ties with Washington.

During the cabinet meeting chaired by Prime Minister Raja Pervaiz Ashraf, the challenging multi-billion dollar Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline was approved, while a deal transferring the management of the Gwadar port from Singapore to China was also given the go-ahead.

The cabinet today gave approval to transfer Gwadar port operations from Port of Singapore to Chinese Overseas Port Holdings Limited, Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira told reporters after the meeting. Both the companies have settled their deal, he said, without giving a timetable for the transfer, adding that the decision was taken to meet the countrys soaring energy requirements.

Kaira said that Singapores PSA International could not develop or operate Gwadar as desired and said he hoped that under the new management the strategically located deep-sea port would soon contribute to Pakistans flagging economy. The Chinese will make more investment to make the project operational, Kaira said.

China provided about 75% of the initial $250 million in funding for the construction of the port in Balochistan. It is currently being operated by Singapores PSA International, but needs further development work to become fully operational. According to PSAs Gwadar website, there has been no ship in the port since November.

According to defence and strategic analysts, China wants to use the port for commercial and defence purposes, which will undermine US influence in the Arabian Sea.

Iran-Pakistan pipeline project

Referring to the Iran-Pakistan pipeline project, Kaira said Iran is an important country for Pakistan while downplaying US pressure on Islamabad to scrap the project. An agreement on government-to-government cooperation on engineering and the procurement and construction of the pipeline on the Pakistani side was also approved.

Kaira said the cabinet has also constituted a four-member committee to finalise modalities for arranging finances for the pipeline. The committee will include the finance minister, petroleum minister, law minister and State Bank governor.

The cabinet also approved an agreement to obtain $250 million in loans from Iran to finance the $1.5 billion project. A petroleum ministry official said the government was also negotiating for another $500 million loan with Iran.

Analysts wary of decisions

A mechanism to enter into a financial agreement with Iran will be tough to manoeuver for Pakistan, since the United States has publicly said the pipeline project would violate US restrictions on major financial deals with Tehran.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had earlier called the project inexplicable, adding that it could invoke US sanctions that would further undermine Pakistans already shaky economy.

Even though the cabinets decisions seem to have been taken in the national interests, analysts have questioned the timing of the approval.

An outgoing government has no business to take decisions that have far-reaching implications for the country, said former ambassador and foreign secretary Shamshad Ahmad Khan. Khan said the decision should have been taken five years ago, adding that the timing suggested it was a politically motivated decision.

Ombudsman office

The cabinet also approved the Ombudsman Institutional Reforms Bill 2013, which aims at providing vast powers to the Ombudsman Office for speedy justice.

Kaira said the existing 11 ombudsmen institutions will be unified under the proposed bill. If Parliament approves the bill, it will empower the toothless tiger, he said referring to the office, adding that there were over 45,000 appeals pending for disposal before the federal ombudsman.

Furthermore, a four-year term has been proposed for the ombudsman, who can only be removed according to the prescribed manner for the removal of a judge of the Supreme Court. All government departments will be obligated to respond to the ombudsmans queries within a fortnight, while the ombudsman will also be bound to dispose appeals within 45 days.

Under the bill, appeals against the ombudsmans decisions can only be filed to the president, who will be bound to dispose of the appeal within 120 days.

Apart from this, the cabinet also approved the Strategic Trade Policy Framework 2012-15.

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## haviZsultan

Looks like there is at least some angel in the Pakistani government who listens to what I say. I just wrote it on PDF and it reached the years of the hukmaraan. Sounds like magic. A few days ago I posted this:

The solution: The first thing we must do is reduce our dependence on the US. This is *phase 1*. 1) Initially we can start by trying to find new markets for our exports because in the event of us quitting their alliance they may increase tarriffs and create hurdles. We currently export about 18% of our goods to US (15.8 billion in 2012)

2) We have lots of defence contracts and a lot of components still have to be delivered. We have to ensure we make no new deals and initiate no new ventures with the US. Perhaps even wait an year for things we bought to be delivered. This field could suffer. Furthermore we have to begin concentrating on China, Russia and ingenious production. India is working on a 5th generation fighter.

Now we move to *phase 2* of the solution. 1) Develop contacts with Iran. Now this might not go down well with a lot of people and even I don't like theocracies/mullahcracies. But I can only agree with their foreign policy. I mean what is a nation supposed to do? Even if they are seeking nukes, Iraq tried to build WMD's, US is in 2 neighboring countries (possibly 3 if Shamsi was used to spy on Iran) and is the only state to have used them and Israel has them as well as neighboring Pakistan. The negative point may be we may become too influenced by the system present there. I favor secularism so I am worried about the rights situation.

2) Offer China military bases in Pakistan in return for favoring us in UN and in all foreign policy matters. For example Iran was sanctioned to the teeth-but it could not have happened had the Chinese vetoed it. That veto has a lot of power. China may be a very important member and we must lean on it for our relationship. It is the bulwark of this idea. I would not have presented it even if China hadn't been an ally.

Optional: 3) I say optional because it will not go down well. Adopt secularism. Western nations sympathize with other secular states but I know the minds of my people still equate secularism with anti-Islamism which isn't true. In any case if it can't be done give people dignity, rights, freedom, justice and stop wrong and injustices whereever we see them. Most importantly deal with terrorism which should become easier after this since TTP will lose its backing since we are no more officially in the WOT.

*Phase 3:* 1) Become more assertive and defend national interest. This comes with being free of the US yoke. Demand things from the US we should be given. Recompensation for losses in war on terror. Aafia Siddiqui case. Everything. Present in the media how US has misused us. A knowledgable person can destroy the US narrative in moments. We suffered more in terrorism than we received aid so the narrative we are earning something is false and broken but not a single Pakistani challenges it. It is time to stand on our own feet. This should be the last phase.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ion-pakistanis-against-usa.html#ixzz2JVImyKQC

This was supposed to be an alternative to our relationship with the US. The exact same plan I proposed (Iran and China were part of it) is being implemented. Finally the government is doing something right-late but at least they are doing it. We all know US will abandon us. They did it in the past when the Soviet Afghan war was over and we had to suffer sanctions and all forms of bullying. It is time to look for new allies unless US completely changes its relationship with us to one of equals from the leader-subject one. May Pakistan thrive and prosper.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Audio said:


> You mean raw resources or oil here with the word crude?
> 
> In any case, the major users of raw materials/oil aren't in western China, where the railway would connect but on the coast. I dont think it makes a lot of sense to unload in Gwadar, train to China through Pakistan, then again train through the whole of China to the coast on the south east.
> 
> It makes a lot more sense that this helps with raw materials the development of western China, some residual effects like transit fees and investment strengthens an ally and last but not least a base as you i think correctly stated. I would also think some sort of radio traffic/satellite data listening post would be set up quite soon, not in 10 or 15 years.



Connecting to Pakistan Gwadar is only make sense to develop the west section of China (Xinjiang) and possibly Tibet. I believe that gradually China will move some manifacturing industries to West  to take advantage of close proximity of resource countries and Eastern coast will be mixed with industrial and service sectors.

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## S.U.R.B.

That's too late but certainly not too little.

With Chinese collaboration once this port starts running near full capacity the area will get huge business.It'll become an economic hub.

For Dubai, ships have to wait for days for the route clearance due to Strait of Hormuz, where only a few ships can cross at a time.The location of Gwadar Port is such that the whole world business converges and diverges at this place. 

_Good for the people at Gwadar,Good for Balochistan and certainly Good for Pakistan._

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## Sasquatch

Audio said:


> You mean raw resources or oil here with the word crude?



Oil 


Audio said:


> In any case, the major users of raw materials/oil aren't in western China, where the railway would connect but on the coast. I dont think it makes a lot of sense to unload in Gwadar, train to China through Pakistan, then again train through the whole of China to the coast on the south east.



That is not the issue, but China's Oil going through vulnerable areas of the Indian Ocean which is undefended and the over reliance of the Malacca Strait, so there is no problem with shipping it into Western China to the East, But not entirely sure to could be sent through rail maybe a pipeline. 



Audio said:


> It makes a lot more sense that this helps with raw materials the development of western China, some residual effects like transit fees and investment strengthens an ally and last but not least a base as you i think correctly stated. I would also think some sort of radio traffic/satellite data listening post would be set up quite soon, not in 10 or 15 years.



Well of course this investment will help Pakistan and Southern region of Xinjiang which is poorer, as for the base that will come sometime later When China will need it but must help also bolster Pakistan Navy, China has set up a radio post on one of Myanmar's Islands it is possible but China will need ultimately a Naval base to operate in the Arabian Sea and Indian Ocean.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Gwadar will need decades for becoming a regional economic hub considering that if it is maintained properly. It can't function as a grand port without the railway line and seeing the condition of railways in Pakistan its really doesn't seems plausible. Karwar Naval base would be sufficient to face any challenge coming out of any Chinese military presence in Arabian sea.



It won't take long once China concentrate on this project, i would expect the project will achieve a great speed since China need to complete this project as soon as possible, time is money, the faster it finish the faster we can transport resource back to Kashgar and the faster Pakistan can make money on transit fee and economy exchange.

I always dream that the silk road from East Asia to Middle east will re-established again like the old time instead of Persia this time we will reach middle east and Pakistan just fall right in between Middle East and China and server as junction and hub. Too bad the ancient partner such India is decided to navigate alone in ocean instead of being partner to this silkroad.

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## genmirajborgza786

Abingdonboy said:


> Perhaps a more appropriate term would be- the String of pearls has turned out to be a non-starter.



i smell something burning  

the string of pearls after successfully adding the gem known as "hambantota" has just added
another diamond to the crown of "China" known as "Gwadar" _the gateway to_ "OIL"

congrats to China & Pakistan   & also sri lanka here this is a new pic of the railway construction from gwadar to china 

http://westbaytown.8k.com/images/railway_track.jpg 

Gwadar Development

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## A1Kaid

Gwadar plan will succeed, it is too important to fail.

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## Mercenary

A1Kaid said:


> Gwadar plan will succeed, it is too important to fail.



I have been hearing about this Gwadar hype for almost a decade now.

When will this investment pay off?


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## MilSpec

Sovereignty ki to lagg gayi!!!

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Mercenary said:


> I have been hearing about this Gwadar hype for almost a decade now.
> 
> When will this investment pay off?



I don't know the stage of Gwadar development and the rail development but as soon as you see Gwadar perform load and unload cargo as this video, you can be sure it's time for investment pay off

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## beijingwalker

see the Chinese webusers comments after this Chinese news report,they all call Pakistan China's only true friend and N.Korea a trouble maker.many say that is China's future lifeline and China got an important heart bypass surgery.a naval base will surely follow to protect this lifeline.

http://tinyurl.com/a8ptb6z

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## Ayush

Still not late I think. 

And if late, then better late than never.

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## beijingwalker

guys that port is not only for oil,it will boost China exports to the middle east and central Asia and railway only has an eye on easy transporting minerals from Afghanistan to China,it can be connected with many other railways.as so Chinese posters stated here before,Pakistan sits on a strategically and geographically golden location,that's no reason why the country can not be the richese one in central and south Asia.the country is the connectiing point of the east and west with its back to the world's top two potential market.it's like one of the bigges artery in the world.

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## OrionHunter

Pakchina said:


> A milestone has been reached between our two nations, China and Pakistan against Scatland, Western racism and bullying.


Really? Stop living in cuckoo land! Read between the lines, chum! China has already positioned itself comfortably in Pak Administered Kashmir where it has deployed 11,000 PLA troops (excluding engineers, technicians and Chinese labour for construction activities). This area will soon become another autonomous region of China (like the Tibetan Autonomous Region) in the not too distant future.

Would Balochistan, where Gwadar is situated, be far behind? The influence of the Hans seems to be spreading across Pakistan slowly but steadily! 

Beware the ides of March! The Han Dynasty is a comin'!!


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

OrionHunter said:


> Really? Stop living in cuckoo land! Read between the lines, chum! China has already positioned itself comfortably in Pak Administered Kashmir where it has deployed 11,000 PLA troops (excluding engineers, technicians and Chinese labour for construction activities). This area will soon become another autonomous region of China (like the Tibetan Autonomous Region) in the not too distant future.
> 
> Would Balochistan, where Gwadar is situated, be far behind? The influence of the Hans seems to be spreading across Pakistan slowly but steadily!
> 
> Beware the ides of March! The Han Dynasty is a comin'!!



I understand your envy and especially your fustration for not having a direct access to Afghanistan and Central Asia while seeing a good deal gonna happen between Pakistan and China. Because India is left behind and isolated so you continue to bullsh1ting about China and if that can comfort yourself and make you feel better than go ahead...because we understand your sadness.

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## A1Kaid

Developments in Gwadar | 2005 to 2010 - YouTube


Look at the development from 2005-2010 that has taken place in Gwadar, satellite imagery.

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## Kaniska

haviZsultan said:


> Looks like there is at least some angel in the Pakistani government who listens to what I say. I just wrote it on PDF and it reached the years of the hukmaraan. Sounds like magic. A few days ago I posted this:
> 
> The solution: The first thing we must do is reduce our dependence on the US. This is *phase 1*. 1) Initially we can start by trying to find new markets for our exports because in the event of us quitting their alliance they may increase tarriffs and create hurdles. We currently export about 18% of our goods to US (15.8 billion in 2012)
> 
> 2) We have lots of defence contracts and a lot of components still have to be delivered. We have to ensure we make no new deals and initiate no new ventures with the US. Perhaps even wait an year for things we bought to be delivered. This field could suffer. Furthermore we have to begin concentrating on China, Russia and ingenious production. India is working on a 5th generation fighter.
> 
> Now we move to *phase 2* of the solution. 1) Develop contacts with Iran. Now this might not go down well with a lot of people and even I don't like theocracies/mullahcracies. But I can only agree with their foreign policy. I mean what is a nation supposed to do? Even if they are seeking nukes, Iraq tried to build WMD's, US is in 2 neighboring countries (possibly 3 if Shamsi was used to spy on Iran) and is the only state to have used them and Israel has them as well as neighboring Pakistan. The negative point may be we may become too influenced by the system present there. I favor secularism so I am worried about the rights situation.
> 
> 2) Offer China military bases in Pakistan in return for favoring us in UN and in all foreign policy matters. For example Iran was sanctioned to the teeth-but it could not have happened had the Chinese vetoed it. That veto has a lot of power. China may be a very important member and we must lean on it for our relationship. It is the bulwark of this idea. I would not have presented it even if China hadn't been an ally.
> 
> Optional: 3) I say optional because it will not go down well. Adopt secularism. Western nations sympathize with other secular states but I know the minds of my people still equate secularism with anti-Islamism which isn't true. In any case if it can't be done give people dignity, rights, freedom, justice and stop wrong and injustices whereever we see them. Most importantly deal with terrorism which should become easier after this since TTP will lose its backing since we are no more officially in the WOT.
> 
> *Phase 3:* 1) Become more assertive and defend national interest. This comes with being free of the US yoke. Demand things from the US we should be given. Recompensation for losses in war on terror. Aafia Siddiqui case. Everything. Present in the media how US has misused us. A knowledgable person can destroy the US narrative in moments. We suffered more in terrorism than we received aid so the narrative we are earning something is false and broken but not a single Pakistani challenges it. It is time to stand on our own feet. This should be the last phase.
> 
> Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...ion-pakistanis-against-usa.html#ixzz2JVImyKQC
> 
> This was supposed to be an alternative to our relationship with the US. The exact same plan I proposed (Iran and China were part of it) is being implemented. Finally the government is doing something right-late but at least they are doing it. We all know US will abandon us. They did it in the past when the Soviet Afghan war was over and we had to suffer sanctions and all forms of bullying. It is time to look for new allies unless US completely changes its relationship with us to one of equals from the leader-subject one. May Pakistan thrive and prosper.



You always publish your writings on PDF which is worth reading....Keep it up..

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## tarrar

Gawadar Port is one of Pakistan&#8217;s big asset & a huge source of income for the country. I hope Gawadar port is fully functional soon. 

(This comes from my reliable source)It is because of Gawadar port UAE funds terrorism in Balochistan, because of Gawdar port their port will get affected very badly & it is because of this they funds terrorism in Balochistan & they are fully against the development of Gawadar port. They are not alone in this, US & India are also eyeing Gawadar port & we know what they are trying to do in Balochistan province.

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## Bonhomie

OrionHunter said:


> Really? Stop living in cuckoo land! Read between the lines, chum! China has already positioned itself comfortably in Pak Administered Kashmir where it has deployed 11,000 PLA troops (excluding engineers, technicians and Chinese labour for construction activities). This area will soon become another autonomous region of China (like the Tibetan Autonomous Region) in the not too distant future.
> 
> Would Balochistan, where Gwadar is situated, be far behind? The influence of the Hans seems to be spreading across Pakistan slowly but steadily!
> 
> Beware the ides of March! The Han Dynasty is a comin'!!



no sweat don't mind as long as Chinese brings prosperity for the people of Kashmir and Balochistan we alone can't manage our Government sucks.

After all what are friends for?  buds for life

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## Bonhomie

beijingwalker said:


> see the Chinese webusers comments after this Chinese news report,they all call Pakistan China's only true friend and N.Korea a trouble maker.many say that is China's future lifeline and China got an important heart bypass surgery.a naval base will surely follow to protect this lifeline.
> 
> ???????? ???|???|?|?_?



the comments are so heart warming it's good to know how people over there feel


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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> It won't take long once China concentrate on this project, i would expect the project will achieve a great speed since China need to complete this project as soon as possible, time is money, the faster it finish the faster we can transport resource back to Kashgar and the faster Pakistan can make money on transit fee and economy exchange.
> 
> I always dream that the silk road from East Asia to Middle east will re-established again like the old time instead of Persia this time we will reach middle east and Pakistan just fall right in between Middle East and China and server as junction and hub. Too bad the ancient partner such India is decided to navigate alone in ocean instead of being partner to this silkroad.



Nothing bad, none of us Indians ever want our economic interest living on Pakistan's mercy and we are doing quite well without having any transit. Our major stakes are in Chabahar and North South corridor in Iran.



ghilzai said:


> What if they do, what do you intend to do about it?.
> 
> Let me rephrase that, what possibly can you do against China?.



Making alliance with China's rivals. We already have oil blocks given by Vietnam in South China Sea, the area claimed by China.

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## beijingwalker

Bonhomie said:


> the comments are so heart warming it's good to know how people over there feel



Great amount of gratitude has been poured in since this morning and still coming,Chinese people are extremely grateful for this generosity given by Pakistan.



> &#28170;&#21338;&#26149;&#38647;[&#36797;&#23425;&#22823;&#36830;]
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> &#23041;&#27494; &#20013;&#24052;&#30431;&#22269;!
> 
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> 
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> 
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> &#25366;&#40763;&#23630;&#36824;&#26159;&#24052;&#38081;&#22815;&#20804;&#24351;
> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> &#36825;&#26159;&#24515;&#33039;&#25645;&#26725;&#25163;&#26415;&#65292;&#21160;&#33033;&#21834;
> 
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> &#20040;&#20040;&#21714;~&#25105;&#29233;&#20320;&#24052;&#38081;~
> 
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> 
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> &#20013;&#24052;&#21451;&#35850;&#19975;&#24180;&#38271;&#65374;&#21040;&#22836;&#26469;&#36824;&#26159;&#24052;&#22815;&#26379;&#21451;&#65281;
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> &#21040;&#22788;&#32473;&#38065;~&#20294;&#30475;&#26469;&#36824;&#26159;&#21482;&#26377;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#22815;&#20041;&#27668;&#21834;~
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> &#20013;&#24052;&#20851;&#31995;&#19990;&#20195;&#21451;&#22909;&#65281;
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
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> 
> &#25317;&#25265;&#24184;&#31119;666v
> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#25165;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#30495;&#27491;&#26379;&#21451;
> 
> &#32654;&#20339;&#24247;&#33829;&#20859;&#20465;&#20048;&#37096;&#26149;&#38647;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#65292;&#30495;&#27491;&#30340;&#21733;&#20204;&#65281;&#36190;
> 
> &#26089;&#23433;&#20108;&#23569;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#22909;&#26679;&#30340;..&#20294;&#20013;&#22269;&#32769;&#24178;&#23545;&#19981;&#36215;&#24052;&#38081;&#30340;&#20107;&#24773;...&#21769;..&#36828;&#36817;&#20146;&#30095;..&#19968;&#32676;&#34850;&#26448;..
> 
> &#21435;&#24744;&#22969;&#30340;
> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#22815;&#20041;&#27668;&#65281;&#30456;&#27604;&#30475;&#19979;&#26397;&#40092;
> 
> &#25105;&#26159;&#23435;&#20891;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#30495;&#20183;&#20041;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;
> 
> &#32599;&#20848;&#36125;&#21202;--&#21271;&#22823;&#32437;&#27178;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#20804;&#24351;&#27604;&#21335;&#36793;&#30340;&#26379;&#21451;&#38752;&#35889;&#24471;&#22810;&#65281;
> 
> ma2ge
> &#36825;&#24352;&#22270;&#30475;&#20986;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#23545;&#20013;&#22269;&#26377;&#22810;&#20040;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#24847;&#20041;&#32473;&#21147;
> 
> &#36719;&#24369;&#30340;&#24093;&#22269;
> &#36825;&#19979;&#20013;&#22269;&#21487;&#20197;&#26377;&#25928;&#30340;&#25511;&#21046;&#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#28023;&#23777;&#20102;&#65292;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#23601;&#26159;&#20183;&#20041;&#12290;
> 
> &#30000;&#21147;&#19981;&#26159;&#24618;&#34560;&#40653;
> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30495;&#26159;&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;
> 
> &#24248;&#20154;&#35874;-&#36014;
> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#25165;&#26159;&#30495;&#20804;&#24351;&#12290;
> 
> Hello&#33606;&#34542;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#22815;&#20183;&#20041;&#65292;&#22810;&#36865;&#20960;&#33368;&#20891;&#33328;&#32473;&#20182;
> 
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> &#20013;&#24052;&#30495;&#30340;&#26159;&#26368;&#22909;&#30340;&#20804;&#24351;&#65281;
> 
> &#29609;&#28418;&#31227;&#30340;&#23567;&#34583;&#29275;
> &#25105;&#38752;&#21679;&#12290;&#37027;&#20040;&#22909;&#30340;&#20301;&#32622;
> 
> &#23432;&#26395;--&#20065;&#24833;
> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#25165;&#26159;&#30495;&#27491;&#30340;&#21516;&#24535;&#21152;&#20804;&#24351;
> 
> YZCJWDDBZ
> &#36825;&#26159;&#22269;&#23478;&#30340;&#29983;&#21629;&#32447;&#20043;&#19968;&#21834;
> 
> &#33322;&#31354;&#25937;&#22269;&#23385;&#20013;&#23665;
> &#25105;&#21202;&#20010;&#21435;&#65292;&#36825;&#26465;&#36335;&#32447;&#22909;&#21834;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#25171;&#22909;&#22823;&#22909;&#65281;&#19981;&#20165;&#35201;&#20462;&#36755;&#27833;&#31649;&#32447;&#65292;&#36830;&#38081;&#36335;&#20063;&#19968;&#24182;&#20462;&#20102;&#21543;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;
> 
> &#36234;&#29425;&#20820;&#22823;&#25112;&#33899;&#33446;&#23043;
> &#32769;&#24052;&#23601;&#26159;&#20183;&#20041;&#65281;&#36825;&#20301;&#32622;&#25384;&#30528;&#23567;&#20234;&#34542;&#36817;&#30340;~&#19968;&#22359;&#24178;&#32769;&#32654;&#21834;&#65281;
> 
> &#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#38485;&#35199;&#35199;&#23433;]
> &#24052;&#38081;&#22826;&#32473;&#21147;&#20102;&#65292;&#19968;&#23450;&#35201;&#21147;&#25402;&#24052;&#38081;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#25165;&#33021;&#38271;&#30427;&#65281;
> 
> LPTS06&#30333;&#40548;&#33310;&#39134;&#25196;
> &#31505;&#21704;&#21704;&#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#21464;&#25104;&#39532;&#30002;&#20102;&#65292;&#30475;&#26469;&#21482;&#26377;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#25165;&#26159;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#30431;&#21451;&#12290;
> 
> &#31109;&#23447;&#23569;&#26519;1575191896
> &#20804;&#24351;&#21834;&#65281;&#24178;&#21360;&#20445;&#24052;&#12290;
> 
> &#36814;&#39118;&#19968;&#30742;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#65281;&#22826;&#25391;&#22859;&#20154;&#24515;&#20102;&#65281;&#20013;&#22269;&#39318;&#20010;&#28023;&#22806;&#20891;&#20107;&#22522;&#22320;&#23621;&#28982;&#22312;&#27874;&#26031;&#28286;&#38468;&#36817;&#65281;&#36825;&#28040;&#24687;&#23646;&#23454;&#30340;&#35805;&#27604;&#36797;&#23425;&#33328;&#20837;&#24441;&#65292;&#36816;20&#39318;&#39134;&#26356;&#32473;&#22269;&#20154;&#25552;&#27668;&#21834;&#65281;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;
> 
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> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30495;&#20035;&#38081;&#21733;&#20204;&#20063;~
> 
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> &#22823;&#20107;&#65292;&#24052;&#38081;&#30495;&#26159;&#24052;&#38081;&#65281;
> 
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> &#22823;&#28165;&#26089;&#30340;&#35201;&#21741;&#26377;&#26408;&#26377;&#65281;&#65281;&#20197;&#21518;&#23569;&#32469;&#22909;&#22810;&#36335;&#65281;
> 
> 
> CNR&#26446;&#31455;&#25104;
> &#24052;&#38081;&#26524;&#28982;&#22815;&#24847;&#24605;&#65292;&#37325;&#22823;&#21033;&#22909;&#28040;&#24687;&#12290;
> 
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> &#20013;&#24052;&#21451;&#35850;&#19975;&#19975;&#23681;&#65281;
> 
> &#27764;&#20154;&#37101;&#23041;
> &#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26159;&#20010;&#22909;&#22320;&#26041;~&#22909;&#21568;~&#22320;&#26041;~
> 
> 149g&#26524;
> &#25105;&#38752;&#65281;
> 
> &#20313;&#25096;-&#33150;&#20914;&#20043;&#22260;
> &#35874;&#35874;&#65281;&#38081;&#21733;&#20204;&#21834;&#27882;
> 
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> &#36825;&#30495;&#20804;&#24351;&#21834;&#65281;
> 
> o&#34527;&#33457;&#29983;
> &#22823;&#28165;&#26089;&#30340;&#35201;&#21741;&#26377;&#26408;&#26377;&#65281;&#65281;&#20197;&#21518;&#23569;&#32469;&#22909;&#22810;&#36335;&#65281;

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## INDIC

beijingwalker said:


> Great amount of gratitude has been poured in since this morning and still coming,Chinese people are extremely grateful for this generosity given by Pakistan.



Hey beijingwalker, what is your views about this article.

Gabe Collins and Andrew Erickson, Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport , China SignPost (&#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269, No. 13 (22 December 2010).

China SignPost &#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269;Clear, high-impact China analysis.© 

The recent flurry of trade deals and MOUs (worth US$35 billion) signed during Premier Wen Jiabaos recent visit to Pakistan have brought the possibility of a more robust Pakistan-to-China transport corridor back into the spotlight. The trade deals stand to drive increased economic activity by Chinese companies in Pakistan in coming years.

However, our assessment is that while the trade and investment agreements may help cement an all weather alliance between Beijing and Islamabad, they do not mean that an all weather transport corridor becomes viable. An expanded road and rail network linking Pakistan to China faces three key challenges. The bottom line is that maritime shipping routes will remain a cheaper, simpler, and more secure option for moving crude oil and other goods into China.

1) Security. The proposed transport corridor would go through areas that are subject to flooding and insurgent activity, as well as avalanches, landslides, and seismic activity in the Karakoram Range. If any of these disruptive events materializes, rail and road traffic cannot re-route around the trouble point the way that ships at sea can.

2) Capacity. A modern one-track rail line in the United States can currently handle around 16 trains per day, according to Cambridge Systematics. A Pakistan-to China rail corridor would likely be built with one track each way, but with reduced throughput of around 12 trains per day. U.S. freight trains carried an average of 2,800 tonnes of cargo in 2004, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Trains transiting the Khunjerab Pass would likely carry smaller loads, perhaps 2,000 tonnes, due to the large vertical gradient. With these train frequency and load parameters, the corridor would be able to handle 8.75 million tonnes of cargo per year, or approximately 175,000 barrels of oil per day if all the trains carried oil.

To move the volumes that would be necessary to make this route able to handle enough cargo to reduce sea transport reliance measurably, there would need to be a rail setup with 3 or 4 lines. Furthermore, bringing that much cargo into Western Chinas rail network and then having to move it into industrial areas in the central and eastern regions would likely necessitate additional capacity expansions of the national rail system. These investments would likely be cost-prohibitive.

3) High construction and transport costs. The tariffs needed to pay off the finance costs of the route and move freight over a 15,000 foot vertical relief would likely make the cost highly uncompetitive with sea routes. The roughly 2,000 km-long Qingzang railway to Lhasa, Tibet cost roughly US$4 billion to build (US$1.85 million per km). The cost per km to build a rail line connecting Islamabad and Kashgar could be several times more expensive to build given the tough geologic and political circumstances along the route.

In terms of transport costs, we estimate that moving a barrel of oil by sea to Shanghai at a ship rate of US$75,000 per day at 23 km per hour with a 2 million barrel cargo costs around US$0.90 per barrel, while moving it by barge upriver to the rapidly-growing inland demand center of Chongqing would cost an additional US$1.23 per barrel, for a total transport cost of US$2.22 per barrel (Exhibit 1). In contrast, moving oil from Ras al-Tanura to Gwadar and then by rail into the heartland of China would likely cost closer to US$8.00 to US$12.40 per barrel, making that route economically uncompetitive, as well as limited in capacity.[1] The disparity would be slightly greater for major cities on Chinas east coast.

Exhibit 1: Estimated costs of moving oil to Chongqing, China from the Persian Gulf by sea and via Pakistan.






In short, there are compelling reasons why sea transport has been dominant for so long. To even build a Pakistan-to-China rail corridor would require massive upfront investments, would be economically uncompetitive relative to sea routes, and due to the many physical and political risks along the route, commercial shippers would likely be highly reluctant to use it.

Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport | China SignPost


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## Spring Onion

Just *Peanuts*


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## beijingwalker

the railway is not only for delivering oil,it can boost China's exports to the middle east and central Asia and also connect Afghanistan.and western"expert" did lot of their assessments about China's ability to get infrastructure projects done,they said we can never build railways in Tibet and we did it in a very short time.China is famous for swiftly and high efficiently to complete engineering miracles.as for simpler or cheaper way of delivery,China may also built a pipeline from the port thru Pakistan to China.

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## SEAL

Gigawatt said:


> Hey beijingwalker, what is your views about this article.
> 
> Gabe Collins and Andrew Erickson, &#8220;Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport ,&#8221; China SignPost&#8482; (&#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269, No. 13 (22 December 2010).
> 
> China SignPost&#8482; &#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269;&#8211;&#8220;Clear, high-impact China analysis.&#8221;©
> 
> The recent flurry of trade deals and MOUs (worth US$35 billion) signed during Premier Wen Jiabao&#8217;s recent visit to Pakistan have brought the possibility of a more robust Pakistan-to-China transport corridor back into the spotlight. The trade deals stand to drive increased economic activity by Chinese companies in Pakistan in coming years.
> 
> However, our assessment is that while the trade and investment agreements may help cement an &#8220;all weather&#8221; alliance between Beijing and Islamabad, they do not mean that an all weather transport corridor becomes viable. An expanded road and rail network linking Pakistan to China faces three key challenges. The bottom line is that maritime shipping routes will remain a cheaper, simpler, and more secure option for moving crude oil and other goods into China.
> 
> 1) Security. The proposed transport corridor would go through areas that are subject to flooding and insurgent activity, as well as avalanches, landslides, and seismic activity in the Karakoram Range. If any of these disruptive events materializes, rail and road traffic cannot re-route around the trouble point the way that ships at sea can.
> 
> 2) Capacity. A modern one-track rail line in the United States can currently handle around 16 trains per day, according to Cambridge Systematics. A Pakistan-to China rail corridor would likely be built with one track each way, but with reduced throughput of around 12 trains per day. U.S. freight trains carried an average of 2,800 tonnes of cargo in 2004, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Trains transiting the Khunjerab Pass would likely carry smaller loads, perhaps 2,000 tonnes, due to the large vertical gradient. With these train frequency and load parameters, the corridor would be able to handle 8.75 million tonnes of cargo per year, or approximately 175,000 barrels of oil per day if all the trains carried oil.
> 
> To move the volumes that would be necessary to make this route able to handle enough cargo to reduce sea transport reliance measurably, there would need to be a rail setup with 3 or 4 lines. Furthermore, bringing that much cargo into Western China&#8217;s rail network and then having to move it into industrial areas in the central and eastern regions would likely necessitate additional capacity expansions of the national rail system. These investments would likely be cost-prohibitive.
> 
> 3) High construction and transport costs. The tariffs needed to pay off the finance costs of the route and move freight over a 15,000 foot vertical relief would likely make the cost highly uncompetitive with sea routes. The roughly 2,000 km-long Qingzang railway to Lhasa, Tibet cost roughly US$4 billion to build (US$1.85 million per km). The cost per km to build a rail line connecting Islamabad and Kashgar could be several times more expensive to build given the tough geologic and political circumstances along the route.
> 
> In terms of transport costs, we estimate that moving a barrel of oil by sea to Shanghai at a ship rate of US$75,000 per day at 23 km per hour with a 2 million barrel cargo costs around US$0.90 per barrel, while moving it by barge upriver to the rapidly-growing inland demand center of Chongqing would cost an additional US$1.23 per barrel, for a total transport cost of US$2.22 per barrel (Exhibit 1). In contrast, moving oil from Ras al-Tanura to Gwadar and then by rail into the heartland of China would likely cost closer to US$8.00 to US$12.40 per barrel, making that route economically uncompetitive, as well as limited in capacity.[1] The disparity would be slightly greater for major cities on China&#8217;s east coast.
> 
> Exhibit 1: Estimated costs of moving oil to Chongqing, China from the Persian Gulf by sea and via Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short, there are compelling reasons why sea transport has been dominant for so long. To even build a Pakistan-to-China rail corridor would require massive upfront investments, would be economically uncompetitive relative to sea routes, and due to the many physical and political risks along the route, commercial shippers would likely be highly reluctant to use it.
> 
> Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport | China SignPost



First its a backup plan and safe route in case of regional tensions and conflicts, the cost maybe on higher side but its fast it will accelerate Chinese economy with benefits estimated to $50-60 Billions. Other countries Russia, CAR's and even A'stan can use this port for business so there is a huge scope of it. 

Secondly its a strategic area 47% of world oil transport pass through here including all Indian energy supplies, good place to deploy navy of two brother countries

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## phylumchordata

chor chor mausere bhai

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## anilindia

how can a sovereing country land her land to some another country..

Also have local people of Balouchistan view taken into account else you will ask..

Why Pakistan's rebels are attacking Chinese projects - Rediff.com India News


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## Spring Onion

anilindia said:


> how can a sovereing country land her land to some another country..
> 
> Also have local people of Balouchistan view taken into account else you will ask..
> 
> Why Pakistan's rebels are attacking Chinese projects - Rediff.com India News



The Indian backed BLA terrorists attack everyone and specially China .

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## Bonhomie

phylumchordata said:


> chor chor mausere bhai


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## INDIC

beijingwalker said:


> the railway is not only for delivering oil,it can boost China's exports to the middle east and central Asia and also connect Afghanistan.and western"expert" did lot of their assessments about China's ability to get infrastructure projects done,they said we can never build railways in Tibet and we did it in a very short time.China is famous for swiftly and high efficiently to complete engineering miracles.as for simpler or cheaper way of delivery,China may also built a pipeline from the port thru Pakistan to China.



If transporting oil can be so expensive through mountains, how are you so sure about other goods.


----------



## INDIC

fox said:


> First its a backup plan and safe route in case of regional tensions and conflicts, the cost maybe on higher side but its fast it will accelerate Chinese economy with benefits estimated to $50-60 Billions. Other countries Russia, CAR's and even A'stan can use this port for business so there is a huge scope of it.
> 
> Secondly its a strategic area 47% of world oil transport pass through here including all Indian energy supplies, good place to deploy navy of two brother countries



That's still a dream project while Iran is moving forward fast by North South corridor connecting Chabahar with border town of Mashhad with a plan to connect to CAR and Russia.

Gwadar may be near the Hormuz but its the land journey across the mountains that will make any transportation very expensive. Even if its constructed for strategic benefits, it will again won't have economic benefits.


----------



## pak avatar

Gigawatt said:


> Hey beijingwalker, what is your views about this article.
> 
> Gabe Collins and Andrew Erickson, Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport , China SignPost (&#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269, No. 13 (22 December 2010).
> 
> China SignPost &#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269;Clear, high-impact China analysis.©
> 
> The recent flurry of trade deals and MOUs (worth US$35 billion) signed during Premier Wen Jiabaos recent visit to Pakistan have brought the possibility of a more robust Pakistan-to-China transport corridor back into the spotlight. The trade deals stand to drive increased economic activity by Chinese companies in Pakistan in coming years.
> 
> However, our assessment is that while the trade and investment agreements may help cement an all weather alliance between Beijing and Islamabad, they do not mean that an all weather transport corridor becomes viable. An expanded road and rail network linking Pakistan to China faces three key challenges. The bottom line is that maritime shipping routes will remain a cheaper, simpler, and more secure option for moving crude oil and other goods into China.
> 
> 1) Security. The proposed transport corridor would go through areas that are subject to flooding and insurgent activity, as well as avalanches, landslides, and seismic activity in the Karakoram Range. If any of these disruptive events materializes, rail and road traffic cannot re-route around the trouble point the way that ships at sea can.
> 
> 2) Capacity. A modern one-track rail line in the United States can currently handle around 16 trains per day, according to Cambridge Systematics. A Pakistan-to China rail corridor would likely be built with one track each way, but with reduced throughput of around 12 trains per day. U.S. freight trains carried an average of 2,800 tonnes of cargo in 2004, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Trains transiting the Khunjerab Pass would likely carry smaller loads, perhaps 2,000 tonnes, due to the large vertical gradient. With these train frequency and load parameters, the corridor would be able to handle 8.75 million tonnes of cargo per year, or approximately 175,000 barrels of oil per day if all the trains carried oil.
> 
> To move the volumes that would be necessary to make this route able to handle enough cargo to reduce sea transport reliance measurably, there would need to be a rail setup with 3 or 4 lines. Furthermore, bringing that much cargo into Western Chinas rail network and then having to move it into industrial areas in the central and eastern regions would likely necessitate additional capacity expansions of the national rail system. These investments would likely be cost-prohibitive.
> 
> 3) High construction and transport costs. The tariffs needed to pay off the finance costs of the route and move freight over a 15,000 foot vertical relief would likely make the cost highly uncompetitive with sea routes. The roughly 2,000 km-long Qingzang railway to Lhasa, Tibet cost roughly US$4 billion to build (US$1.85 million per km). The cost per km to build a rail line connecting Islamabad and Kashgar could be several times more expensive to build given the tough geologic and political circumstances along the route.
> 
> In terms of transport costs, we estimate that moving a barrel of oil by sea to Shanghai at a ship rate of US$75,000 per day at 23 km per hour with a 2 million barrel cargo costs around US$0.90 per barrel, while moving it by barge upriver to the rapidly-growing inland demand center of Chongqing would cost an additional US$1.23 per barrel, for a total transport cost of US$2.22 per barrel (Exhibit 1). In contrast, moving oil from Ras al-Tanura to Gwadar and then by rail into the heartland of China would likely cost closer to US$8.00 to US$12.40 per barrel, making that route economically uncompetitive, as well as limited in capacity.[1] The disparity would be slightly greater for major cities on Chinas east coast.
> 
> Exhibit 1: Estimated costs of moving oil to Chongqing, China from the Persian Gulf by sea and via Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short, there are compelling reasons why sea transport has been dominant for so long. To even build a Pakistan-to-China rail corridor would require massive upfront investments, would be economically uncompetitive relative to sea routes, and due to the many physical and political risks along the route, commercial shippers would likely be highly reluctant to use it.
> 
> Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport | China SignPost



Why have the authors chosen a place as Chongqing as a target point for oil which is closer to the sea then Pakistan. 
Half of China can be accessed quicker and cheaper through Pakistan then China(Shanghai and Beijing) itself let alone the long sea route plus long land route to take goods to western and central China

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## pakistanitarzan

Spring Onion said:


> Just *Peanuts*



I think you should change your signature statement bro. Let's just say it's not.....too polite 
It's sunnat to even treat one's enemies with respect and Indian's are guests on this forum!


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## INDIC

pak avatar said:


> Why have the authors chosen a place as Chongqing as a target point for oil which is closer to the sea then Pakistan.
> Half of China can be accessed quicker and cheaper through Pakistan then China(Shanghai and Beijing) itself let alone the long sea route plus long land route to take goods to western and central China



I believe author chose densely populated East China where more than 90% Chinese live while Chongqing will be farthest by sea route and nearest by train route and cost comparison.


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## beijingwalker

Gigawatt said:


> That's still a dream project while Iran is moving forward fast by North South corridor connecting Chabahar with border town of Mashhad with a plan to connect to CAR and Russia.
> 
> Gwadar may be near the Hormuz but its the land journey across the mountains that will make any transportation very expensive. Even if its constructed for strategic benefits, it will again won't have economic benefits.



China is very determined and this is a lifeline if future trouble occurs on the open sea,which is very likely based on the current situation.and China is almost certainly to build a navy base there to get a hold onto this strategically most important region of the world.what's more,Pakistan is China's most reliable friend,if everywhere else fails us we still have a lifeline here in the safe hands of our best friend.



Gigawatt said:


> I believe author chose densely populated East China where more than 90% Chinese live while Chongqing will be farthest by sea route and nearest by train route and cost comparison.



that's why strategically all leaders know that the east is saturated with little room for further development.China is where the future of the world lies,western provinces are where China's future lies.

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## INDIC

beijingwalker said:


> that's why strategically all leaders know that the east is saturated with little room for further development.China is where the future of the world lies,western provinces are where China's future lies.



What I get from your comment is that such railway line only have strategic importance and very little economic importance. I believe Pakistanis looks towards Gwadar for economic benefits.


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## beijingwalker

Gigawatt said:


> What I get from your comment is that such railway line only have strategic importance and very little economic importance. I believe Pakistanis looks towards Gwadar for economic benefits.



Chinese are also business savvy people.of course it has huge business values as well as strategic values.China never spends billions of dollars for nothing.I predict a lot of Chinese investment will be put in and businesses set up there,taking the full advantage of its superb location and future solid infrastructure and perhaps low labor cost.China has an eye on building up western Chinese cities and that port serves as the key for this national scale plan.

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## beijingwalker

This is like giving Xinjiang and Tibet an open sea port,so the imports and exports of those regions don't have to first travel the whole length of China to get to Shanghai,Tianjing,Hongkong...,it takes days and tons of money,that's why for a long time the development of the great west is not economically worthwhile.with this port China is like having sea routes on both sides of the country,just like US,so the future benefit,especially for the west part of China will be imaginably immense.

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## rcrmj

beijingwalker said:


> Great amount of gratitude has been poured in since this morning and still coming,Chinese people are extremely grateful for this generosity given by Pakistan.



Let me give it a try to translate these Chinese forum posts regarding this issue
(the first line is users name and address, so I skip that)


&#32769;&#23385;&#23478;&#30340;&#23567;&#22899;&#20799; 
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#36825;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#65292;&#21644;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#24773;&#35850;&#24456;&#22909;&#65292;&#38750;&#24120;&#30340;&#20449;&#20219;&#20013;&#22269;&#20154;&#27665;&#12290;&#20013;&#24052;&#21451;&#35850;&#19975;&#23681;
Pakistan and China has profound relationship, they trust China. Long live China-Pakistan


&#35848;&#31505;&#39118;&#29983;&#30475;&#20154;&#38388;[&#23665;&#19996;&#27982;&#21335;]
&#25152;&#20197;&#22914;&#26524;&#26159;&#22312;&#22269;&#20869;&#30896;&#21040;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30340;&#20804;&#24351;,&#22823;&#23478;&#22810;&#29031;&#39038;&#21704;
&#20170;&#22825;11:20 &#25903;&#25345;(47)
If met any Pakistani brothers in China, take good care of them


jimzte[&#24191;&#19996;&#28145;&#22323;]
&#24052;&#38081;,&#30495;&#19981;&#38169;,
&#20170;&#22825;11:52 &#25903;&#25345;(23)
Ba tie (Iron Pak), very good indeed!


Shawn_Cui 
&#36825;&#20301;&#32622;&#22826;&#29275;&#36924;&#20102;..
Awesome location



&#20171;&#20010;&#23567;&#26679; 
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#26368;&#22362;&#23454;&#30340;&#30431;&#21451;&#12290;
Pakistan is the most reliable friend of us


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#27827;&#21335;&#37073;&#24030;]
&#24052;&#38081;&#30495;&#26159;&#38081;&#30340;&#30431;&#21451;&#12290;&#21407;&#24052;&#22269;&#23478;&#32321;&#33635;&#26124;&#30427;&#65292;&#20154;&#27665;&#23433;&#23621;&#20048;&#19994;&#65292;&#20013;&#24052;&#21451;&#35850;&#19975;&#24180;&#24120;&#38738;&#65281;
Ba tie is our iron ally, may prosperity and peace upon Pakistan and its people, long live our friendship


Kevinnnnwuu 
&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;
Good brother


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#24191;&#19996;&#28251;&#27743;]
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#65292;&#30495;&#22909;&#12290;
Pakistan very good


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#28023;&#21335;&#28023;&#21475;]
&#20840;&#19990;&#30028;&#30495;&#24515;&#23545;&#25105;&#20204;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#25110;&#35768;&#20063;&#21482;&#26377;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#36825;&#20301;&#20804;&#24351;&#20102;
In this world, Pakistan is the only one that is sincere to us


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#27743;&#33487;&#26080;&#38177;]
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#20540;&#24471;&#20449;&#20219;&#30340;&#26379;&#21451;&#65292;&#25903;&#25345;&#25903;&#25345;&#65281;
Pakistan is a trusted friend, support, support!


&#40644;&#23665;&#26494;[&#23433;&#24509;&#40644;&#23665;]
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#26159;&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;&#12289;&#22909;&#20249;&#20276;&#12289;&#22909;&#26379;&#21451;&#12289;&#22909;&#37051;&#23621;&#65281;&#25105;&#19968;&#30452;&#37117;&#35828;&#24052;&#22269;&#30340;&#22909;&#35805;&#65292;&#21457;&#33258;&#20869;&#24515;&#30340;&#31069;&#24895;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#20154;&#27665;&#26126;&#22825;&#26356; &#32654;&#22909;&#12290;
Pakistan is our brother, partner, good friends and good neighbour! I always praise Pakistan right from my heart. Wish Pakistan a brighter tomorrow


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#28246;&#21271;&#27494;&#27721;]
&#21644;&#25105;&#24819;&#30340;&#19968;&#26679;&#65292;&#21482;&#26377;&#24052;&#38081;&#25165;&#26159;&#30495;&#26379;&#21451;&#65292;&#30495;&#20804;&#24351;&#65292;&#36208;&#20160;&#20040;&#32517;&#30008;&#12290;
As I thought, this is what is called ally, real brother````but the so-called friend Myanmar```````!


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#24191;&#19996;&#24191;&#24030;]
&#24212;&#35813;&#22823;&#21147;&#25588;&#21161;&#24052;&#21457;&#23637;&#32463;&#27982;&#65292;&#21806;&#24052;&#26356;&#20808;&#36827;&#30340;&#36827;&#25915;&#24615;&#25112;&#26415;&#24615;&#27494;&#22120;&#65292;&#20197;&#23545;&#25239;&#38463;&#19977;&#12290;
We have to do our best to help them, like economy, sell them more advanced aggressive weapons to dealing with India


&#35874;&#22825;&#35874;&#22320;&#35874;&#26133;&#28009; 
&#22909;&#30431;&#21451;!
Good ally!


&#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#28023;&#23777; 
&#22909;&#22522;&#21451;&#65292;&#19968;&#36744;&#23376;&#21834;
A life time partner


&#27704;&#36828;Ewigkeit[&#22825;&#27941;]
&#30495;TM&#22815;&#24847;&#24605;&#65281;&#22815;&#21733;&#20204;&#65281;
This is F**king cool, brother!



&#22238;&#23478;7&#39277; 
&#25265;&#25265; &#24052;&#38081;&#21508;&#31181;&#22909;good
Hug hug, Ba tie good this and good that```GOOD!


&#30475;&#29699;&#21247;&#35821;[&#36797;&#23425;&#22823;&#36830;]
&#30475;&#37027;&#22270;&#30495;&#24515;&#28558;&#28227;&#21734;&#12290;&#25112;&#30053;&#33021;&#28304;&#26159;&#19968;&#20010;&#22269;&#23478;&#30340;&#21629;&#33033;&#65292;&#36825;&#35201;&#26159;&#20551;&#20197;&#26102;&#26085;&#25104;&#30495;&#30340;&#35805;&#65292;&#21360;&#24230;&#23601;&#24471;&#30127;&#12290;
It makes my heart surging when looking at this map, strategic resource is the key to a nation. When this becomes reality which will make indian going nuts


Michael&#32418;&#39764; 
&#24052;&#38081; &#22909;&#20804;&#24351;&#22260;&#35266;&#23041;&#27494;
Ba tie, good brother, we are watching, awesome


&#22823;&#28784;&#29436;&#26031;&#35834;&#35834; 
&#36825;&#25165;&#26159;&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;&#22043;good &#25972;&#22825;&#25630;&#40657;&#23454;&#39564;&#30340;&#23398;&#30528;&#28857;&#24369;
This is what called brotherhood, that one who is always doing nasty experiments must learn from it (North Korea)


CallMeSYlar 
&#25366;&#40763;&#23630;&#36824;&#26159;&#24052;&#38081;&#22815;&#20804;&#24351;
(internet slang, I am not quite getting it) when doing dirty works, Pakistan is the only one we can call


&#19968;&#39134;&#27516;15[&#31119;&#24314;&#21414;&#38376;]
&#32769;&#24052;&#36825;&#20123;&#24180;&#20026;&#20102;&#25903;&#25345;&#20013;&#22269;&#22312;&#22269;&#38469;&#30340;&#20107;&#21153;&#27809;&#23569;&#21463;&#32654;&#22269;&#30340;&#33080;&#33394;&#65292;&#36824;&#19968;&#22914;&#26082;&#24448;&#21147;&#25402;&#25105;&#22269;&#65292;&#31639;&#24471;&#19978;&#20037;&#32463;&#32771;&#39564;&#30340;&#30495;&#27491;&#26379;&#21451;&#21152;&#20804; &#24351;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#21451;&#35850;&#22825;&#38271;&#22320;&#20037;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;
For many times, in order to support us, Pakistan suffered a lot from Americas bully or patronizing, but they still our iron ally. A time tested friendship plus brotherhood```!! long live our friendship!!!!


-&#33487;&#38182;&#28155;- 
&#20013;&#22269;&#22914;&#26524;&#22312;&#36825;&#20010;&#28207;&#21475;&#20462;&#24314;&#22522;&#22320;&#65292;&#37027;&#20040;&#36825;&#20010;&#19990;&#30028;&#27833;&#38400;&#35813;&#35841;&#26469;&#25226;&#20102;&#21602;&#65311;&#21621;&#21621;
If we built this port, and who is to control the pipe nob? hehe 




&#36335;&#36807;&#20320;&#23478;&#38376;&#21069;[&#24191;&#19996;&#28145;&#22323;]
&#36825;&#25165;&#21483;&#20804;&#24351;&#65292;&#23612;&#29595;&#26397;&#40092; &#20320;&#30475;&#30475;
This is called brotherhood, F**king North Korea, look at them


&#25163;&#28010;&#29992;&#25143;2296649941[&#27993;&#27743;&#22025;&#20852;]
&#30495;&#27491;&#30340;&#24052;&#38081;&#65281;
Real Ba tie



&#34203;&#24681;&#24378;-&#38271;&#34425; 
&#21807;&#19968;&#30340;&#38081;&#21733;&#20204;
Our only Iron brother


vvun 
&#36825;&#26159;&#24515;&#33039;&#25645;&#26725;&#25163;&#26415;&#65292;&#21160;&#33033;&#21834;
This is Heart Bbypass Surgery, its artery


&#33707;&#37034;&#36335;&#19978;&#27809;&#26377;&#24178;&#23558; 
&#20040;&#20040;&#21714;~&#25105;&#29233;&#20320;&#24052;&#38081;~
(internet slang) I love you Ba tie



&#38738;&#23707;&#26085;&#38889;&#29289;&#27969; 
&#37325;&#22823;&#25112;&#30053;&#24847;&#20041;&#65281;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30495;&#22815;&#21733;&#20204;&#65281;
This has huge strategic impacts!! Ba tie my brother


&#19978;&#31471;&#22825;&#39640; 
@Timberwolve &#20013;&#24052;&#22826;&#26377;&#29233;&#20102;
Too many loves between us


&#21315;&#24180;&#24754;&#27468; 
&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;&#23601;&#26159;&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#36825;&#25112;&#30053;&#20301;&#32622;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;
Brother is brother`!! strategic location



Dahokuen[&#24191;&#19996;&#24191;&#24030;]
&#21703;&#22622;&#65292;&#22826;&#32473;&#21147;&#20102;&#65292;&#20013;&#22269;&#30707;&#27833;&#30340;&#33046;&#23376;&#19981;&#20877;&#34987;&#21345;&#20303;&#20102;&#65292;&#65292;&#65292;
Wow, powerful! Now no one can strangle our neck


bj&#23567;&#33311; 
&#22362;&#20915;&#25421;&#21355;&#21644;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#20804;&#24351;&#20851;&#31995;
We firmly stand by our brotherhood


&#24247;&#33453; 
&#19968;&#30475;&#22320;&#22270;&#25165;&#30693;&#36947;&#65292;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#20301;&#32622;&#22914;&#27492;&#37325;&#35201;&#65281;
When you look at the map and you will understand this strategic meanings

Heroin_Liu 
&#24052;&#38081;&#22909;&#20804;&#24351;&#65281;&#26159;&#21542;&#21487;&#20197;&#22312;&#27492;&#28207;&#39547;&#25166;&#28023;&#20891;&#21602;&#65311;
Ba tie brother, can we station our warship there?


&#22823;&#21355;-zjb 
&#22826;&#22909;&#20102;&#12290;&#36825;&#20040;&#37325;&#35201;&#30340;&#25112;&#30053;&#20301;&#32622;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#21487;&#20197;&#22823;&#26377;&#20316;&#20026;&#21834;&#12290;
Excellent, what a strategic location, we gonna do big later on together



&#29420;&#23396;&#26970;&#27827; 
&#36825;&#26159;&#25105;&#20170;&#24180;&#30475;&#35265;&#30340;&#26368;&#32473;&#21147;&#30340;&#26032;&#38395;&#65281;&#24052;&#38081;&#20183;&#20041;&#65281;&#20013;&#22269;&#25112;&#30053;&#36164;&#28304;&#36890;&#36947;&#65281;&#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#19981;&#20877;&#21345;&#20013;&#22269;&#33046;&#23376;&#20102;&#65281;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041; &#27494;&#23041;&#27494;
This is by far the best news I have come cross today! Ba tie faithful! This is our nations strategic energy parth! Malacca can no longer strangle our neck now


&#25317;&#25265;&#24184;&#31119;666v 
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#25165;&#26159;&#20013;&#22269;&#30340;&#30495;&#27491;&#26379;&#21451;
Pakistan is our real friend


&#26089;&#23433;&#20108;&#23569; 
&#24052;&#38081;&#22909;&#26679;&#30340;..&#20294;&#20013;&#22269;&#32769;&#24178;&#23545;&#19981;&#36215;&#24052;&#38081;&#30340;&#20107;&#24773;...&#21769;..&#36828;&#36817;&#20146;&#30095;..&#19968;&#32676;&#34850;&#26448;..
Excellent Pakistan, but we didn't do our best to help them```idiots (Chinese politicians)




&#21435;&#24744;&#22969;&#30340; 
&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#22815;&#20041;&#27668;&#65281;&#30456;&#27604;&#30475;&#19979;&#26397;&#40092;
Pakistan faithful!, lets compared it with North Korea`````````


&#32599;&#20848;&#36125;&#21202;--&#21271;&#22823;&#32437;&#27178; 
&#24052;&#38081;&#20804;&#24351;&#27604;&#21335;&#36793;&#30340;&#26379;&#21451;&#38752;&#35889;&#24471;&#22810;&#65281;
Much better than some friends from south

YZCJWDDBZ 
&#36825;&#26159;&#22269;&#23478;&#30340;&#29983;&#21629;&#32447;&#20043;&#19968;&#21834;
Our life line


&#33322;&#31354;&#25937;&#22269;&#23385;&#20013;&#23665; 
&#25105;&#21202;&#20010;&#21435;&#65292;&#36825;&#26465;&#36335;&#32447;&#22909;&#21834;&#65281;&#65281;&#65281;&#25171;&#22909;&#22823;&#22909;&#65281;&#19981;&#20165;&#35201;&#20462;&#36755;&#27833;&#31649;&#32447;&#65292;&#36830;&#38081;&#36335;&#20063;&#19968;&#24182;&#20462;&#20102;&#21543;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;&#12290;
Holy F**k, what a route, great! Not only the pipes we have to build railroads for them too```


&#36234;&#29425;&#20820;&#22823;&#25112;&#33899;&#33446;&#23043; 
&#32769;&#24052;&#23601;&#26159;&#20183;&#20041;&#65281;&#36825;&#20301;&#32622;&#25384;&#30528;&#23567;&#20234;&#34542;&#36817;&#30340;~&#19968;&#22359;&#24178;&#32769;&#32654;&#21834;&#65281;
Ba tie faithful, this location is very close to Iranm lets F**k america together


&#25163;&#26426;&#29992;&#25143;[&#38485;&#35199;&#35199;&#23433;]
&#24052;&#38081;&#22826;&#32473;&#21147;&#20102;&#65292;&#19968;&#23450;&#35201;&#21147;&#25402;&#24052;&#38081;&#65292;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#22269;&#23478;&#25165;&#33021;&#38271;&#30427;&#65281;
Ba tie powerful, we have to firmly support them, only by doing so we can prosper


LPTS06&#30333;&#40548;&#33310;&#39134;&#25196; 
&#31505;&#21704;&#21704;&#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#21464;&#25104;&#39532;&#30002;&#20102;&#65292;&#30475;&#26469;&#21482;&#26377;&#24052;&#22522;&#26031;&#22374;&#25165;&#26159;&#25105;&#20204;&#30340;&#30431;&#21451;&#12290;
lol Malacca becomes waistcoat (this joke has to do with Chinese linguistic tricks), Pakistan is our only ally


&#31109;&#23447;&#23569;&#26519;1575191896 
&#20804;&#24351;&#21834;&#65281;&#24178;&#21360;&#20445;&#24052;&#12290;
Brother lets folk India together






&#36814;&#39118;&#19968;&#30742; 
&#24052;&#38081;&#65281;&#22826;&#25391;&#22859;&#20154;&#24515;&#20102;&#65281;&#20013;&#22269;&#39318;&#20010;&#28023;&#22806;&#20891;&#20107;&#22522;&#22320;&#23621;&#28982;&#22312;&#27874;&#26031;&#28286;&#38468;&#36817;&#65281;&#36825;&#28040;&#24687;&#23646;&#23454;&#30340;&#35805;&#27604;&#36797;&#23425;&#33328;&#20837;&#24441;&#65292;&#36816;20&#39318;&#39134;&#26356;&#32473; &#22269;&#20154;&#25552;&#27668;&#21834;&#65281;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041;&#27494;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;&#32473;&#21147;
Ba tie, an extrodinary news! Its hard to believe that our first overseas base is so near to Gulf! This news is by all means bigger than the maiden flight of Y-20```


o&#34527;&#33457;&#29983; 
&#22823;&#28165;&#26089;&#30340;&#35201;&#21741;&#26377;&#26408;&#26377;&#65281;&#65281;&#20197;&#21518;&#23569;&#32469;&#22909;&#22810;&#36335;&#65281;
Do you want to cry in the morning (internet slang)`!!! we do not have to go all the way around now

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## beijingwalker

Once completed,Kashgar will benefit the most,it will become like a port city,most westbound goods have to go through there.Kashgar might become Hongkong or Shanghai in the west.

Kashgar

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## beijingwalker

> &#36825;&#26159;&#25105;&#20170;&#24180;&#30475;&#35265;&#30340;&#26368;&#32473;&#21147;&#30340;&#26032;&#38395;&#65281;&#24052;&#38081;&#20183;&#20041;&#65281;&#20013;&#22269;&#25112;&#30053;&#36164;&#28304;&#36890;&#36947;&#65281;&#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#19981;&#20877;&#21345;&#20013;&#22269;&#33046;&#23376;&#20102;&#65281;&#23041;&#27494;&#23041; &#27494;&#23041;&#27494;
> This is by far the best news I have come cross *today*!



Many thanks bro,a small typo mistake maybe,it's *this year*&#20170;&#24180;,not today.


----------



## A1Kaid

@rcrmj


My favorite comment



> vvun
> 
> &#36825;&#26159;&#24515;&#33039;&#25645;&#26725;&#25163;&#26415;&#65292;&#21160;&#33033;&#21834;
> This is Heart Bbypass Surgery, its artery




Lol...


----------



## SEAL

Gigawatt said:


> That's still a dream project while Iran is moving forward fast by North South corridor connecting Chabahar with border town of Mashhad with a plan to connect to CAR and Russia.
> 
> Gwadar may be near the Hormuz but its the land journey across the mountains that will make any transportation very expensive. *Even if its constructed for strategic benefits, it will again won't have economic benefits.*



You so discouraging, typical Indian behavior.  and thanks for kind information i wish people like you serve on higher positions in hindustan. I am leaving you a link have a nice read.

http://pu.edu.pk/images/journal/pols/pdf-files/gwadar%20article-winter2012.pdf


----------



## Zarvan

cb4 said:


> ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Wednesday approved a deal transferring from Singapore to China the management of the strategically located deep-sea Gwadar port on the Arabian Sea.
> 
> China provided about 75 per cent of the initial $250 million in funding for the construction of the port in Pakistans southwestern province of Balochistan.
> 
> It is currently being operated by Singapores PSA International, but needs further development work to become fully operational. According to PSAs Gwadar website, there has been no ship in the port since November.
> 
> The cabinet today gave approval to transfer Gwadar port operations from Port of Singapore to Chinese Overseas Port Holdings Limited, Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira told reporters.
> 
> Both the companies have settled their deal, he said, without giving a timetable for the transfer.
> 
> Kaira said that Singapores PSA International could not develop or operate Gwadar as desired and said he hoped that under new management the port would soon contribute to Pakistans flagging economy.
> 
> The Chinese will make more investment to make the project operational, Kaira said.
> 
> China, one of Pakistans closest allies and its main arms supplier, has also funded ports in Sri Lanka and has been approached to help build a port in Bangladesh.
> 
> Pakistans former defence minister Ahmad Mukhtar said in May 2011 that China had agreed to take over port operations at Gwadar.
> 
> He also said Islamabad would be more grateful to the Chinese government if a naval base was being constructed at the site of Gwadar for Pakistan. At the time, Chinas foreign ministry said it was unaware of any such request.
> 
> Pakistan approves Gwadar port transfer to China | Pakistan | DAWN.COM


Is it only management transfer or some Navy of China will be also involved ?


----------



## HongWu

A1Kaid said:


> @rcrmj
> 
> 
> My favorite comment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lol...


That's why with Pakistan's permission this will be PLAN's base in the South Pakistani Ocean, ready to cut India's energy supply route anytime.


----------



## DESERT FIGHTER

KingMamba93 said:


> Punjabis need to kick some sense into the Baloch, saar paar chariaya wah hai.



You seriously need to stfu......

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## Audio

I received so many thanks in this thread i feel like a whore who just worked the whole village.....

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## DESERT FIGHTER

Audio said:


> I received so many thanks in this thread i feel like a whore who just worked the whole village.....



Well ur a good whor3 i guess...











I like your post abt the bikinis...... hallelujah


----------



## xyxmt

Audio said:


> I received so many thanks in this thread i feel like a whore who just worked the whole village.....



let me see if I get the same pleasures by thanking you


----------



## Bonhomie

rcrmj said:


> Let me give it a try to translate these Chinese forum posts regarding this issue
> (the first line is users name and address, so I skip that)
> 
> 
> &#39532;&#20845;&#30002;&#28023;&#23777;
> &#22909;&#22522;&#21451;&#65292;&#19968;&#36744;&#23376;&#21834;
> *A life time partner*
> 
> 
> &#36335;&#36807;&#20320;&#23478;&#38376;&#21069;[&#24191;&#19996;&#28145;&#22323;]
> &#36825;&#25165;&#21483;&#20804;&#24351;&#65292;&#23612;&#29595;&#26397;&#40092; &#20320;&#30475;&#30475;
> *This is called brotherhood, F**king North Korea, look at them*
> 
> vvun
> &#36825;&#26159;&#24515;&#33039;&#25645;&#26725;&#25163;&#26415;&#65292;&#21160;&#33033;&#21834;
> *This is Heart Bbypass Surgery, its artery*
> 
> 
> &#19978;&#31471;&#22825;&#39640;
> @Timberwolve &#20013;&#24052;&#22826;&#26377;&#29233;&#20102;
> *Too many loves between us*
> 
> 
> &#31109;&#23447;&#23569;&#26519;1575191896
> &#20804;&#24351;&#21834;&#65281;&#24178;&#21360;&#20445;&#24052;&#12290;
> *Brother lets folk India together*



although all the comments were lovely but these are so so full of WIN  epiccc


----------



## Audio

xyxmt said:


> let me see if I get the same pleasures by thanking you





......

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Nothing bad, none of us Indians ever want our economic interest living on Pakistan's mercy and we are doing quite well without having any transit. Our major stakes are in Chabahar and North South corridor in Iran.
> 
> Making alliance with China's rivals. We already have oil blocks given by Vietnam in South China Sea, the area claimed by China.



Using Chabahar port to carry resource back to India  it's just a waste of time and money, sure it's a painfull solution for current global economy competition, soon or later your future gorvernment will reconsider to cozy Pakistan for land route to afghanistan. I don't think Pakistan would mind if the transit fee is right . amd of course if you don't try to piss Pakistan why you need to afraid of been at their mercy, you should learn chinese way, we also depend Pakistan for the transit but we learn how to keep our relation as all weather one 

And sure you can cozy Vietnam but you will end up empty handed because we know how to deal with Vietnam

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## Edevelop

From Pakistan's point of view China is a big market and serving them with Gwadar Port would mean economic activity. Personally, i like the fact that China's presence there would mean putting pressure on India and U.S. also.

Just there are positive things, there is always a negative side. Although China might be our friend, but before that, they will look for their interests. Baluchistan is literally sitting on Oil, Gold, Gas, and Coal reserves, i just hope these precious resources don't get snatched.


----------



## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Using Chabahar port to carry resource back to India  it's just a waste of time and money, sure it's a painfull solution for current global economy competition, soon or later your future gorvernment will reconsider to cozy Pakistan for land route to afghanistan. I don't think Pakistan would mind if the transit fee is right . amd of course if you don't try to piss Pakistan why you need to afraid of been at their mercy, you should learn chinese way, we also depend Pakistan for the transit but we learn how to keep our relation as all weather one
> 
> And sure you can cozy Vietnam but you will end up empty handed because we know how to deal with Vietnam



Then you don't know Pakistanis well. First of all they will never give us transit route for Afghanistan, second thing is their Kashmir obsession is above all. And their are other factors.

Chabahar is still profilable for us.


----------



## Awesome

I had said it then, when they were giving it to Singapore. Singapore is a competitor - it should not be allowed a stake in Gwadar. So far their involvement has shown nothing impressive. 

China has a stake in Gwadar's success and hence a natural entity to handover the management to.

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## darkinsky




----------



## INDIC

darkinsky said:


>



Is Karachi Gawadar highway a Motorway.


----------



## darkinsky

Gigawatt said:


> Is Karachi Gawadar highway a Motorway.



its a coastal highway


----------



## Machoman

darkinsky said:


> you are an american, start behaving like one and stop talking on behalf of punjabis and all non sense coming out of your mouth, baloch are as much pakistanis as punjabis are
> 
> stop your regional bias right here



Dude what is wrong with you man.....telling everyone that you are not ****, you are this and that......so are you the only true Pakistani in this forum......?


----------



## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> Hey beijingwalker, what is your views about this article.
> 
> Gabe Collins and Andrew Erickson, &#8220;Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport ,&#8221; China SignPost&#8482; (&#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269, No. 13 (22 December 2010).
> 
> China SignPost&#8482; &#27934;&#23519;&#20013;&#22269;&#8211;&#8220;Clear, high-impact China analysis.&#8221;©
> 
> The recent flurry of trade deals and MOUs (worth US$35 billion) signed during Premier Wen Jiabao&#8217;s recent visit to Pakistan have brought the possibility of a more robust Pakistan-to-China transport corridor back into the spotlight. The trade deals stand to drive increased economic activity by Chinese companies in Pakistan in coming years.
> 
> However, our assessment is that while the trade and investment agreements may help cement an &#8220;all weather&#8221; alliance between Beijing and Islamabad, they do not mean that an all weather transport corridor becomes viable. An expanded road and rail network linking Pakistan to China faces three key challenges. The bottom line is that maritime shipping routes will remain a cheaper, simpler, and more secure option for moving crude oil and other goods into China.
> 
> 1) Security. The proposed transport corridor would go through areas that are subject to flooding and insurgent activity, as well as avalanches, landslides, and seismic activity in the Karakoram Range. If any of these disruptive events materializes, rail and road traffic cannot re-route around the trouble point the way that ships at sea can.
> 
> 2) Capacity. A modern one-track rail line in the United States can currently handle around 16 trains per day, according to Cambridge Systematics. A Pakistan-to China rail corridor would likely be built with one track each way, but with reduced throughput of around 12 trains per day. U.S. freight trains carried an average of 2,800 tonnes of cargo in 2004, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Trains transiting the Khunjerab Pass would likely carry smaller loads, perhaps 2,000 tonnes, due to the large vertical gradient. With these train frequency and load parameters, the corridor would be able to handle 8.75 million tonnes of cargo per year, or approximately 175,000 barrels of oil per day if all the trains carried oil.
> 
> To move the volumes that would be necessary to make this route able to handle enough cargo to reduce sea transport reliance measurably, there would need to be a rail setup with 3 or 4 lines. Furthermore, bringing that much cargo into Western China&#8217;s rail network and then having to move it into industrial areas in the central and eastern regions would likely necessitate additional capacity expansions of the national rail system. These investments would likely be cost-prohibitive.
> 
> 3) High construction and transport costs. The tariffs needed to pay off the finance costs of the route and move freight over a 15,000 foot vertical relief would likely make the cost highly uncompetitive with sea routes. The roughly 2,000 km-long Qingzang railway to Lhasa, Tibet cost roughly US$4 billion to build (US$1.85 million per km). The cost per km to build a rail line connecting Islamabad and Kashgar could be several times more expensive to build given the tough geologic and political circumstances along the route.
> 
> In terms of transport costs, we estimate that moving a barrel of oil by sea to Shanghai at a ship rate of US$75,000 per day at 23 km per hour with a 2 million barrel cargo costs around US$0.90 per barrel, while moving it by barge upriver to the rapidly-growing inland demand center of Chongqing would cost an additional US$1.23 per barrel, for a total transport cost of US$2.22 per barrel (Exhibit 1). In contrast, moving oil from Ras al-Tanura to Gwadar and then by rail into the heartland of China would likely cost closer to US$8.00 to US$12.40 per barrel, making that route economically uncompetitive, as well as limited in capacity.[1] The disparity would be slightly greater for major cities on China&#8217;s east coast.
> 
> Exhibit 1: Estimated costs of moving oil to Chongqing, China from the Persian Gulf by sea and via Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In short, there are compelling reasons why sea transport has been dominant for so long. To even build a Pakistan-to-China rail corridor would require massive upfront investments, would be economically uncompetitive relative to sea routes, and due to the many physical and political risks along the route, commercial shippers would likely be highly reluctant to use it.
> 
> Still a Pipedream: A Pakistan-to-China rail corridor is not a substitute for maritime transport | China SignPost



this article is just a joke: chose Chongqing as reference destination for argument such high cost, capacity and security is just epic fail...no idiot would want to do that.

1- Gwadar route is viable only for Kashgar and other nearby cities to develop western section of China, 
2- For transport capacity issue ,Western sector is not well developped and not huge population to require a fully load transport capacity, so small capacity still fullfill Chinese nord western needs.
3- Export: as Beijingwalker mentioned, this route will serve also for export as well. 
4-gateway to middile east for cultural exchange
5- enhance China-pakistan trade: cheers:
6 consolidate political alliance when dealing our common foes, when you have good communication line, it gave a good psycological support for each other
7-Facilitate the shipment of weapons to Pakistan or middle east 
8-To compete with India for resource

The benefices outweight some small issues that the artical mentioned...I guess it's not hard to understand

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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> this article is just a joke: chose Chongqing as reference destination for argument such high cost, capacity and security is just epic fail...no idiot would want to do that.
> 
> 1- Gwadar route is viable only for Kashgar and other nearby cities to develop western section of China,
> 2- For transport capacity issue ,Western sector is not well developped and not huge population to require a fully load transport capacity, so small capacity still fullfill Chinese nord western needs.
> 3- Export: as Beijingwalker mentioned, this route will serve also for export as well.
> 4-gate wate to middile east for cultural exchange
> 5- enhance China-pakistan trade: cheers:
> 6 consolidate political alliance when dealing our common foes
> 7-Facilitate the shipment of weapons or middle east
> 8-To compete with India for resource
> 
> The benefices outweight some small issues that the artical mentioned...I guess it's not hard to understand



But aren't you building a railway line to Afghanistan via Tajikistan to import minerals which will furthur extends into Iran and middle East.


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## muse

This makes the choke points of Hormuz and Malacca - redundant


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## Kompromat

muse said:


> This makes the choke points of Hormuz and Malacca - redundant



And saves Chinese oil supply from a sea dominated and controlled by the American Navy, hence stripping washington of its political leverage over Beijing just because they control China's oil supply.

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## muse

Exactly -- That big USN can now be used against all those who hate the freedoms of the US

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## INDIC

muse said:


> This makes the choke points of Hormuz and Malacca - redundant



Chinese already got an alternative to Malacca straits.


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## muse

Then they also avoid IN


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## Kompromat

muse said:


> Exactly -- That big USN can now be used against all those who hate the freedoms of the US



lol, This is just so interesting, most of us struggle to understand why the US invaded Afghanistan, i mean REALLY.

Pls read all of my posts,if you can.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/204652-americas-7-mistakes-afghanistan.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/204652-americas-7-mistakes-afghanistan-4.html


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## darkinsky

Gigawatt said:


> Chinese already got an alternative to Malacca straits.



burmese relations not good with china 

also the most of the western china is closer to pakistan, for example xinjiang and its cities urumqi, etc

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## Imran Khan

damn too late 5 years late why not day one ?


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## Kompromat

muse said:


> Then they also avoid IN



Sir they can demolish IN but they cant do that to USN. ALL of Chinese energy security and trade is dependent of the Sea, they want an alternative for BOTH, be it the Pakistan pipeline to China or the reinventing silk route.


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## darkinsky

muse said:


> This makes the choke points of Hormuz and Malacca - redundant



the train routes will make the supply cheaper

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## INDIC

darkinsky said:


> the train routes will make the supply cheaper



Read the article once


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gigawatt said:


> But aren't you building a railway line to Afghanistan via Tajikistan to import minerals which will furthur extends into Iran and middle East.



Could be but one thing for sure it's the more roads, the more rails connection with any countries will only benefit factor, we than can have more choice to decide which road to take base on criterias such as more convenient, more economic or more safe road.


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## Peshwa

Aeronaut said:


> Sir *they can demolish IN *but they cant do that to USN. ALL of Chinese energy security and trade is dependent of the Sea, they want an alternative for BOTH, be it the Pakistan pipeline to China or the reinventing silk route.



Oh please Aeronaut...thats just exhaggeration and you know it!

You do know that the IN is probably the strongest and most modernized of all armed forces of India..and by no means a cakewalk..

I do not believe that China can take on the Indian navy in the Indian ocean...It will take a while before China can boast that claim...same goes for India in the South China Sea.


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## Peshwa

A few thoughts that hopefully some Pakistani friends can comment on....

1. By creating a pipeline through Balochistan to China, Oil supply for China will obviously be easier...But doesnt this give the BLA and seperatists another tool to blackmail Pakistan with? I mean this was one of the reasons why development has been slower than expected...so how will the security of the pipeline be handled? If Im not mistaken, Balochistan is not a very heavily militarized zone..

2. How do 3rd party entities such as China deal with situations such as war between say India and Pakistan?
Of course in case of a war, India's motive will be to block oil supplies from the Middle East going into Pak which would have a direct impact on Chinese supplies. Does this mean China enters the war as well?

3. Why is gwadar considered a better route than Chahabar except for China? CARs would probably have better access through Chahabar no?


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## KS

Aeronaut said:


> Sir they can demolish IN but they cant do that to USN.



Did you know why in the Battle of Thermopylae 300 odd Spartans could hold off a vast number of Persians for a considerable time ? 

If you knew that and you saw geography in that context you would know PLAN could hardly defeat the Indian Navy in Indian Ocean.

Thank God for the Malacca Straits and Andaman islands !


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## INDIC

Aeronaut said:


> Sir they can demolish IN but they cant do that to USN. ALL of Chinese energy security and trade is dependent of the Sea, they want an alternative for BOTH, be it the Pakistan pipeline to China or the reinventing silk route.



like Indians, Chinese don't have any experience in using an Aircraft carriers and secondly our navy is guarding the Malacca straits


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## Sinnerman108

Gigawatt said:


> Read the article once



See the source of the article and use your common sense for once !

Shipment by Train is much faster than ship km to km.
Shipment by Train is shorter distance anyway.

China has an advantage going through Pakistan which is an ally to middle east who are Pakistan's ally.

China will still have an advantage using Pakistan's capabilities and raw material where required coupleed with their's and exporting out.

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## indian_foxhound

Pakistan has decided to go ahead with a
controversial $1.5bn pipeline to import Iranian
gas, a senior government official has said, in a
move that risks alienating the US. A decision has been made that we cant delay
this project for any longer. This is Pakistans
essential lifeline. We are going ahead with this
project, the official told the Financial Times on
Thursday.
sif Ali Zardari, Pakistans president,
unexpectedly cancelled a trip to Iran at the last minute in December, amid concerns in Islamabad
over stiff US opposition to a project considered
essential for tackling mounting energy shortages.
Some Pakistani officials had expected Mr Zardari
to consent to the project during the trip. The plan would see Pakistan build a pipeline
connecting its national gas supply grid in the
southern Sindh province to the Iranian border in
southwest Baluchistan. Iranian officials say they
have already built the pipeline on their side of the
border to within 100km of Pakistan. The US has opposed the pipeline on the grounds
it would inject foreign exchange into the Iranian
economy at a time when western countries have
imposed a number of ever tighter sanctions in an
effort to prevent Tehran from advancing its
nuclear weapons programme. Independent economists said it was too early to
predict whether the project would go ahead.
The companies involved from Pakistan may face
the danger of being exposed to US-led western
sanctions, warned Sakib Sherani, an economist.
There are also technical issues in undertaking such a large project. However, Islamabad has become all too aware of
the political and economic risks posed by chronic
electricity shortages after people took to the
streets in cities across the country last summer in protest at power cuts up to 20 hours long. Pakistan appeared confident the US would not hit
it with tough sanctions, according to a senior
western diplomat in Islamabad. In their
[Pakistans] calculus, they believe that the US
needs Pakistan to ensure a successful drawdown
from Afghanistan by December next year, the diplomat said. The Pakistanis probably believe there will be a
lot of huff and puff but no painful sanctions. In all
honesty, Pakistan has a terrible situation on
energy and these [energy] shortages can
undermine the countrys stability. Iran has offered its neighbour at least $500m to
help finance the project. The money was just the
beginning, the Pakistani official said. The
Iranians have said they will provide more
funding for this project if there is a need. The Iranian pipeline offers Pakistan the shortest
supply route from any gas surplus country,
officials say. Asim Hussain, chief adviser on oil
and natural resources to the government, told the
FT last December: Its a feasible project for
Pakistan. Its the quickest route, the cheapest route where we can fulfil our energy needs.

http://www.liveweb.archive.org/live...bbe-11e2-a700-00144feab49a.html#axzz2JaRxm8hP


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## unicorn

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> It's not delusion nor hard core idealism, China sure know the future importance of Pakistan that why we invest on the port and road infrastructure, the only concern is that some foreign powers will try to put stick on Pakistan's wheel preventing it from progress.



China and Pakistan doing things in stealthy mode and also the timing of this decision when we know there is only one year left for the US draw down in Afghanistan.. Foreign elements are involved in destabilization for a very long time in the cover of War on terror by giving logistical support to miscreants and providing safe heavens inside Afghanistan. Pakistan and China should need to work on this in the future and should have a joint strategic aim.

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## Icewolf

Gwadar will turn into the next Dubai... also has more potential than Dubai



Peshwa said:


> A few thoughts that hopefully some Pakistani friends can comment on....
> 
> 1. By creating a pipeline through Balochistan to China, Oil supply for China will obviously be easier...But doesnt this give the BLA and seperatists another tool to blackmail Pakistan with? I mean this was one of the reasons why development has been slower than expected...so how will the security of the pipeline be handled? If Im not mistaken, Balochistan is not a very heavily militarized zone..
> 
> 2. How do 3rd party entities such as China deal with situations such as war between say India and Pakistan?
> Of course in case of a war, India's motive will be to block oil supplies from the Middle East going into Pak which would have a direct impact on Chinese supplies. Does this mean China enters the war as well?
> 
> 3. Why is gwadar considered a better route than Chahabar except for China? CARs would probably have better access through Chahabar no?



1. BLA is dead & gone now...

2. If there is a war, and India tries to block oil supplies going into China, India will be obliterated.

3. Chabahar is less developed than Gwadar, also it is more expensive, and more risky going through a rogue state like Iran.


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## Peshwa

Icewolf said:


> Gwadar will turn into the next Dubai... also has more potential than Dubai.



Its best not to quack before the chickens hatch....

I wish Pakistan the best, but some of you are calling this rock a diamond way before maturity..


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## Peshwa

Icewolf said:


> 1. BLA is dead & gone now...



Right....

Hello frog in well



> 2. If there is a war, and India tries to block oil supplies going into China, India will be obliterated.



Will you personally obliterate India?

Pakistan was able to jack **** during the 71 blockade...litttle can be expected here.
My question was aimed at China's policy of non interference, especially when its not a direct party to the conflict.



> 3. Chabahar is less developed than Gwadar, also it is more expensive, and more risky going through a rogue state like Iran.



Ok talking nonsense is one thing youre famous for..

Please explain how the infrastructure at Chahabar is less developed than Gwadar when Iran already has a rail and road link setup with Afghanistan?
Next explain how its more expensive when the port of entry and distance to CAR is lesser than going accross the length of Pakistan?

Speaking of Rogue states....who here has heard of Balochistan and FATA?
Iran is way more stable and has better relations with CAR countries than Pak....simple fact.


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## Icewolf

Peshwa said:


> Right....
> 
> Hello frog in well
> 
> 
> 
> Will you personally obliterate India?
> 
> Pakistan was able to jack **** during the 71 blockade...litttle can be expected here.
> My question was aimed at China's policy of non interference, especially when its not a direct party to the conflict.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok talking nonsense is one thing youre famous for..
> 
> Please explain how the infrastructure at Chahabar is less developed than Gwadar when Iran already has a rail and road link setup with Afghanistan?
> Next explain how its more expensive when the port of entry and distance to CAR is lesser than going accross the length of Pakistan?
> 
> Speaking of Rogue states....who here has heard of Balochistan and FATA?
> Iran is way more stable and has better relations with CAR countries than Pak....simple fact.



What?


Well if India dare do blockade it will get obliterated by China as well as Pakistan
By the way, IN had already backed off when they heard USN was coming in 1971

Well gwadar has more potential than Chabahar, plus Gwadar is worlds biggest deep sea port, and earns more than Chabahar

Iran, politically is a rogue state. There is no telling when Iran will seize traders in Chabahar maybe asking USA to lift sanctions?

Plus China wants Gwadar built to help develop their rural areas..


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## Kompromat




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## Mitro

Its very good news for Baluchistan when china start developing gwadar and when local people gets employment the problem in baluchistan will be no more . China will get secure energy route and faster and pakistan railways will get a facelift too.Win win situation for both of them.

So it will be a big problems for us because if china energy corridor is threaten or damage by us in india pakistan war scenario then china will enter the war to protect it Asset and when china already told the world that Pakistan is China's Israel then there is no more india and pakistan war without china involvement.

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## Peshwa

Icewolf said:


> What?
> 
> 
> Well if India dare do blockade it will get obliterated by China as well as Pakistan
> By the way, IN had already backed off when they heard USN was coming in 1971


t
Like I said...talking is one thing you guys are good at....lets see the obliteration happen which you guys speak of so often....
History says you will do jackshit!

PS: The blockade of Bangladesh was successful and no one backed off...please prove me wrong otherwise



> Well gwadar has more potential than Chabahar, plus Gwadar is worlds biggest deep sea port, and earns more than Chabahar



Having more potential means bollocks unless you live up to it....so far there is little to show for it.



> Iran, politically is a rogue state. There is no telling when Iran will seize traders in Chabahar maybe asking USA to lift sanctions?



Why the hell would Iran stop trade when its income for them....
please dont just say things to fill space...



> Plus China wants Gwadar built to help develop their rural areas..



Agreed, but that does not make gwadar better than Chahbar nor does it guarantee success of the same...


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## Kompromat

Czar786 said:


> Its very good news for Baluchistan when china start developing gwadar and when local people gets employment the problem in baluchistan will be no more . China will get secure energy route and faster and pakistan railways will get a facelift too.Win win situation for both of them.
> 
> So it will be a big problems for us because if china energy corridor is threaten or damage by us in india pakistan war scenario then china will enter the war to protect it Asset and when china already told the world that Pakistan is China's Israel then there is no more india and pakistan war without china involvement.



Illiteracy in Balochistan is around 80%, when Chinese investments will start coming through, it will eventually turn the fortunes of the inhabitants of balochistan around. Property prices will increase, business will grow, wealth will be created resulting in the complete eradication of the terrorist outfits which already have lost all of their support.

The Gwadar will not just be an energy corridor, we will link it up with Russia, C.Asia, Mongolia, Afghanistan and China. The estimated potential of revenue being generated out of Gwadar alone per year, should this project succeed is around 45 billion dollars, which would mean that the Balochistan will become Pakistan's richest province, mining, potential shale reserves are a thing of the future. Pakistan has plans to build larger new ports at Pasni, Jewani and Port Qasim.

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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> Its very good news for Baluchistan when china start developing gwadar and when local people gets employment the problem in baluchistan will be no more . China will get secure energy route and faster and pakistan railways will get a facelift too.Win win situation for both of them.
> 
> So it will be a big problems for us because if china energy corridor is threaten or damage by us in india pakistan war scenario then china will enter the war to protect it Asset and when china already told the world that Pakistan is China's Israel then there is no more india and pakistan war without china involvement.



There is slight chances of such escalation between India and China, China will as usual advice Pakistan for ceasefire with India. Morever you are forgetting our navy is sitting at the mouth of Malacca straits, the main trading lane of China.


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## Mitro

You are absolutely correct one of my friend purchase 300 acres near gwader around 2005 very cheap he is still looking to invest their ,he use to say gwadar is like goldmine.

I pray for pakistan that it come out of these mess and our both country come out of ignorance and start working on development,peace,education,equality and prosperity. Rather then purchasing Weapons






Aeronaut said:


> Illiteracy in Balochistan is around 80%, when Chinese investments will start coming through, it will eventually turn the fortunes of the inhabitants of balochistan around. Property prices will increase, business will grow, wealth will be created resulting in the complete eradication of the terrorist outfits which already have lost all of their support.
> 
> The Gwadar will not just be an energy corridor, we will link it up with Russia, C.Asia, Mongolia, Afghanistan and China. The estimated potential of revenue being generated out of Gwadar alone per year, should this project succeed is around 45 billion dollars, which would mean that the Balochistan will become Pakistan's richest province, mining, potential shale reserves are a thing of the future. Pakistan has plans to build larger new ports at Pasni, Jewani and Port Qasim.

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## Kompromat

Gigawatt said:


> There is slight chances of such escalation between India and China, China will as usual advice Pakistan for ceasefire with India. Morever you are forgetting our navy is sitting at the mouth of Malacca straits, the main trading lane of China.



They, have around 60 or so submarines, do you even know what that means?


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## INDIC

Aeronaut said:


> They, have around 60 or so submarines, do you even know what that means?



Indian ocean is alien for them. 

There is relatively lesser military gap between India and China compared to India and Pakistan.


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## Kompromat

Czar786 said:


> You are absolutely correct one of my friend purchase 300 acres near gwader around 2005 very cheap he is still looking to invest their ,he use to say gwadar is like goldmine.



He is going to be rich, very rich.



> I pray for pakistan that it come out of these mess and our both country come out of ignorance and start working on development,peace,education,equality and prosperity. Rather then purchasing Weapons



We are locked in a Nuclear triangle, i kinda feel more safe.



Gigawatt said:


> Indian ocean is alien for them.
> 
> There is relatively lesser military gap between India and China compared to India and Pakistan.



Oh yes, Indian ocean came from Mars, they can take out your navy without a burp. India has no balls to either block the Malaka Straights or Sandbag and blockade Pakistan, things have changed a lot, this is not 70s anymore.


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## Mitro

I don't see direct war between india and pakistan both having nuclear weapons in near future ,Our Navy is not that much powerful enough to engage china navy which is making warship like making *cookies*.

In near future we will see chinese navalbase in* Bangladesh,sri lanka,maldives,burma,Gwadar and east african countrys* to protect it Asset and investment ,so china will be all over us it will be very difficult and almost impossible to engage with chinese navy.

and you are talking about Malacca Straits china will attack our *mainland* 



Gigawatt said:


> There is slight chances of such escalation between India and China, China will as usual advice Pakistan for ceasefire with India. Morever you are forgetting our navy is sitting at the mouth of Malacca straits, the main trading lane of China.


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## INDIC

Aeronaut said:


> He is going to be rich, very rich.
> 
> 
> 
> We are locked in a Nuclear triangle, i kinda feel more safe.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yes, Indian ocean came from Mars, they can take out your navy without a burp. India has no balls to either block the Malaka Straights or Sandbag and blockade Pakistan, things have changed a lot, this is not 70s anymore.



But they can't bring their airforce in Indian ocean nor they have much experience in operating an aircraft carrier. Indian ocean is completely alien to them.


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## Peshwa

Aeronaut said:


> Oh yes, Indian ocean came from Mars, they can take out your navy without a burp. India has no balls to either block the Malaka Straights or Sandbag and blockade Pakistan, things have changed a lot, this is not 70s anymore.



Thats mighty ambitious to say that China can "take out" the Indian navy....care to put forth your arguments for the same? I really would like to see what makes the PLAN astronomically stronger than IN?

In a state of war...all is fair...what makes you think India wont needle the weakest point in Pakistan's armor..its navy..
Secondly, if your country can issue threats of using tactical nukes, I think we are way past "having balls" to economically blockade you...

But Im glad that this mentality exists in Pakistan....underestimating ones enemy and his capability is what has lead to previous downfalls as well...


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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> I don't see direct war between india and pakistan both having nuclear weapons in near future ,Our Navy is not that much powerful enough to engage china navy which is making warship like making *cookies*.
> 
> In near future we will see chinese navalbase in* Bangladesh,sri lanka,maldives,burma,Gwadar and east african countrys* to protect it Asset and investment ,so china will be all over us it will be very difficult and almost impossible to engage with chinese navy.
> 
> and you are talking about Malacca Straits china will attack our *mainland*



But aren't China's neighbours too doing the same thing, encircling China and inviting America.


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## Mitro

Confrontation with china is not in our benefit we should play in the hand of western country we have very ancient relation with chinese people,china is growing and we should grow with it in peace and prosperity .



Gigawatt said:


> Indian ocean is alien for them.
> 
> There is relatively lesser military gap between India and China compared to India and Pakistan.

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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> Confrontation with china is not in our benefit we should play in the hand of western country we have very ancient relation with chinese people,china is growing and we should grow with it in peace and prosperity .



Certainly, we always do thing in our way, not western way. And I am sure China won't impose war on India for the sake of Pakistan


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## Mitro

If you see american is no way in a position to confront china directly and its economy will not allow big budget for arm forces and going to lose the global policemen role.

Phillippines and vietnam is the only two country that are making hue and cry but have we seen american involvement "NO"




Gigawatt said:


> But aren't China's neighbours too doing the same thing, encircling China and inviting America.

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## INDIC

Czar786 said:


> I don't see direct war between india and pakistan both having nuclear weapons in near future ,Our Navy is not that much powerful enough to engage china navy which is making warship like making *cookies*.
> 
> In near future we will see chinese navalbase in* Bangladesh,sri lanka,maldives,burma,Gwadar and east african countrys* to protect it Asset and investment ,so china will be all over us it will be very difficult and almost impossible to engage with chinese navy.
> 
> and you are talking about Malacca Straits china will attack our *mainland*



During cold war both US and USSR had eyes on Maldives Gan Airbase, but Maldives declined such offer, Myanmar is sliping towards west, Bangladesh economically dependent on India while Sri Lanka is playing safe. Only country that could help China will be Pakistan in Arabian sea, not in Indian ocean or Bay of Bengal.



Czar786 said:


> If you see american is no way in a position to confront china directly and its economy will not allow big budget for arm forces and going to lose the global policemen role.
> 
> Phillippines and vietnam is the only two country that are making hue and cry but have we seen american involvement "NO"



But China is indeed feeling the pressure from Japan, South Korea, India, Australia and SCS countries. America just decided to put majority of her navy in Pacific


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## Mitro

I remember reading some where that at the time of india china war china wanted pakistan to get involved and take the kashmir so i think in future war it will be multiple nation fighting like block in world war.lets hope it never happen.




Gigawatt said:


> Certainly, we always do thing in our way, not western way. And I am sure China won't impose war on India for the sake of Pakistan


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## Sasquatch

Gigawatt said:


> Chinese already got an alternative to Malacca straits.



Nope just diversifying the use of it as others would include the Arctic, Gwadar, and Central Asia .



Gigawatt said:


> Indian ocean is alien for them.



Not really China has been sending PLAN ships for training in the Indian Ocean, Arabian Sea, and the Horn of Africa with 2-3 ships yearly.

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## Sasquatch

Gigawatt said:


> our navy is sitting at the mouth of Malacca straits, the main trading lane of China.



The IN sitting at the mouth of the Malacca does not mean much as it neither has the political will or the capability to fully close it now, shutting international water route did not go well the Suez crises and Iran's current plan of blocking Hormuz, not to mention the strait is route for other countries trade and Oil such as ASEAN, Japan and Korea. Only the USN and the USA can get anyway with something like this.

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## Mitro

Now Maldives is totally different ball game for us they are anti india they want china to takeover their airport and we will see chinese navy in maldives why you think china is in hurry to develop its navy on war footing ,Myanmar did these same think in 2000 but they went back,Bangladesh depend about government some time they are friend sometime they are enemy,they are buying their weapons from china on low interest why china give them weapon if he thinks its our ally.Sri lanka already in past gave their support to pakistan navy i dont know you remember it,see the chinese involvement in srilanka.



Gigawatt said:


> During cold war both US and USSR had eyes on Maldives Gan Airbase, but Maldives declined such offer, Myanmar is sliping towards west, Bangladesh economically dependent on India while Sri Lanka is playing safe. Only country that could help China will be Pakistan in Arabian sea, not in Indian ocean or Bay of Bengal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But China is indeed feeling the pressure from Japan, South Korea, India, Australia and SCS countries. America just decided to put majority of her navy in Pacific





Japan is no more war world japan its weak country its economy is suffering because of china,Southkorea knows who control North korea so it will never go against china,Australia economy depends on china so no antichina.America is playing these games from behind the veil but its too late to stop china .


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## Mitro

*Yes indeed 
*


Aeronaut said:


> He is going to be rich, very rich.
> 
> 
> 
> We are locked in a Nuclear triangle, i kinda feel more safe.
> 
> *Dangerous then Bermuda triangle *


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## muse

All this India vs China is just plain BS - but only if the US is out of the equation - once US is in the equation, all bets are off - It may be that Indians are not crazy to war on behalf of US and West, but they may find themselves in a situation where they will have been maneuvered into such an eventuality

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## Mitro

If you remember in cold war era and russia occupation of AF they wanted india to engage pakistan directly but india refuse you know why because we listen to call but we do what we want to do.



muse said:


> All this India vs China is just plain BS - but only if the US is out of the equation - once US is in the equation, all bets are off - It may be that Indians are not crazy to war on behalf of US and West, but they may find themselves in a situation where they will have been maneuvered into such an eventuality


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## genmirajborgza786

beijingwalker said:


> Once completed,Kashgar will benefit the most,it will become like a port city,most westbound goods have to go through there.Kashgar might become Hongkong or Shanghai in the west.
> 
> Kashgar



man what a beautiful landscape this city has got it's quiet similar to the rocky mountains

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Czar786 said:


> Confrontation with china is not in our benefit we should play in the hand of western country we have very ancient relation with chinese people,china is growing and we should grow with it in peace and prosperity .



China don't have interest to confront India neither, we will end up to hurt ourself while Western countries will just laugh. Same for India-Pakistan. The best is all three of us united to rebuild new silk road link South Asia, China, Middlle East and central Asia and co-share the prosperity...war will only put us back to stone age.

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## Kompromat

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> China don't have interest to confront India neither, we will end up to hurt ourself while Western countries will just laugh. Same for India-Pakistan. The best is all three of us united to rebuild new silk road link South Asia, China, Middlle East and central Asia and co-share the prosperity...war will only put us back to stone age.



Only problem is India, they are willing to join China and Pakistan to link up C.Asia, but remain reluctant, even though Pakistan is softening its stance and allowing them to seek their business interests in that region. We *ALL* have tormented history attached to these Anglo Saxons regardless of what flag they might carry. "Future is the reflection of History" as the cliche' goes, we would be retarded to trust them again while we fight each other, or fight on their behalf. 

Imagine SCO becoming a reality, we will become the most prosperous, the most powerful region on earth one more time. Then these Anglo Saxons would, be forced to deal with us on equal terms and none of our states will remain under Neocolonialism.

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## beijingwalker

funny to see some Indian posters asking in case of a war breaking out between India and Pakistan and India takes Chinas heavily invested assets in Pakistan and cuts off our oil supply,what will China do?is it too simple a question.what if your artery was cut,and your blood was stopped to flow into your heart to make you live,what would you do?

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## Fracker

beijingwalker said:


>



I though plan was to connect silk road to Motorway and then something like this 





Also the map in Chinese also looks incorrect, because it is passing through swat region, which will increase the cost of constructing the roads...

Karakoram HighWay to be connected with motorway


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## Mitro

Thats what i am trying to say to my country men that we cannot engage pakistan without involving china so it is in the interest of all get together and workout for peace and make all of our economy interdependent with each other and prosper together.



beijingwalker said:


> funny to see some Indian posters asking in case of a war breaking out between India and Pakistan and India takes Chinas heavily invested assets in Pakistan and cuts off our oil supply,what will China do?is it too simple a question.what if your artery was cut,and your blood was stopped to flow into your heart to make you live,what would you do?

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## INDIC

Fracker said:


> I though plan was to connect silk road to Motorway and then something like this
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also the map in Chinese also looks incorrect, because it is passing through swat region, which will increase the cost of constructing the roads...
> 
> Karakoram HighWay to be connected with motorway



It can't achieve it without completing lowari tunnel.



beijingwalker said:


> funny to see some Indian posters asking in case of a war breaking out between India and Pakistan and India takes Chinas heavily invested assets in Pakistan and cuts off our oil supply,what will China do?is it too simple a question.what if your artery was cut,and your blood was stopped to flow into your heart to make you live,what would you do?



Indians didn't initiate such comments.


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## Fracker

Gigawatt said:


> It can't achieve it without completing lowari tunnel.



What? Now from where lowari tunnel came? It's Gilgit Abotababad, and connecting to M1.

EDit: Lowari Tunnel is connecting Dir with Chitral... And In future prospect Chitral may be connected to Afghanistan. But at the moment it is serving only Chitral. And for Afghanistan legal road is Khyber Pass from Peshawar.


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## INDIC

Fracker said:


> What? Now from where lowari tunnel came? It's Gilgit Abotababad, and connecting to M1.



Some Pakistan guy mentioned Lowari tunnel supposed to connect Pakistan to Central Asia through Wakhan Corridor.


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## Fracker

Gigawatt said:


> Some Pakistan guy mentioned Lowari tunnel supposed to connect Pakistan to Central Asia through Wakhan Corridor.



yeah but to get connected with China, you don't need to go to Afghanistan, Turkamanistan, Gilgit is directly connected to china through Karakuram Highway. And same Karakuram Highway is connected with Swat and Abotabad.


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## Sasquatch

Aeronaut said:


> Illiteracy in Balochistan is around 80%, when Chinese investments will start coming through, it will eventually turn the fortunes of the inhabitants of balochistan around. Property prices will increase, business will grow, wealth will be created resulting in the complete eradication of the terrorist outfits which already have lost all of their support.
> 
> The Gwadar will not just be an energy corridor, we will link it up with Russia, C.Asia, Mongolia, Afghanistan and China. The estimated potential of revenue being generated out of Gwadar alone per year, should this project succeed is around 45 billion dollars, which would mean that the Balochistan will become Pakistan's richest province, mining, potential shale reserves are a thing of the future. Pakistan has plans to build larger new ports at Pasni, Jewani and Port Qasim.



This is excellent to hear.

I do understand that the UAE and Qatar are funding Baloch insurgents as it threatens their interest, and to add they host a large Baloch population true ? What of the Iran-Pakistan pipeline ? Has Pakistan fully agreed to go on with it despite American and Saudi opposition ? 

A rail/pipeline could bring massive investment into Pakistan and Southern Xinjiang which is poorer, basically it would cement the Sino-Pakistan ties.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Hu Songshan said:


> ....
> A rail/pipeline could bring massive investment into Pakistan and Southern Xinjiang which is poorer, basically it would cement the Sino-Pakistan ties.



Not only that once Pakistan earn money on transit fee, it can invest even more on security and national defence such acquire new fighter, ships, missile  ..even aircraft carrier .

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## Mani2020

@Hu Songshan i dont have any hope of Pakistan-Iran pipeline until this govt is in power specially with US influence ....and if the next govt is of PML-N then again it will meet the same fate as historically they are most tilted towards Saudia and least towards iran so i dont see that happening in their period too ...its just a fancy stunt like many other being played by the PPP govt currently even a kid knows here the future of this project is very gloomy 

Pakistan may be the sole country where her own political parties works against everything that promises a prosperous future for its public...these morons will never let anything good happen to this country ...until they are alive and in power ...everything will bite the dust


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Gwadar port takeover raises concern in India, now India is irked, it will be hard for pakistan and China to convince that this port is for peacefull used and pose no threat to India. . when we have pipe link and rail link it will even anger more India.

Gwadar port takeover raises concern in India-India-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos


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## explorer9

Gwador deep sea port was destined to go to Chinese way since its inception. The two countries were waiting for the right time to announce the news. Since Nawab Raisani Government is ousted after the deadly attacks on Hazaras, US has outlined its withdrawal strategy from Afghanistan.

Within a year&#8217;s time we will witness another news &#8220;China readied to develop joint naval base in Gwador with Pakistan.

The great game of Eurasia is on the verge of magnum display and waiting for ultimate US withdrawal from Afghanistan.

The permutation and combination will rapidly vacillate in the forthcoming period...

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## SEAL

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Not only that once Pakistan earn money on transit fee, it can invest even more on security and national defence such acquire new fighter, ships, missile  ..even aircraft carrier .



To hell with weapons bro we are not Indians who blindly spending everything on weapons to become regional power we know their potential they don't have genes to become power or rule. We want to see economic and infrastructure development more than anything else i hope one day i will see these in Pakistan.

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## Contrarian

Aeronaut said:


> Sir they can demolish IN but they cant do that to USN. ALL of Chinese energy security and trade is dependent of the Sea, they want an alternative for BOTH, be it the Pakistan pipeline to China or the reinventing silk route.



They cant demolish IN in Indian Ocean Region. They can demolish it in SCS. In IOR, particularly close to Indian mainland - that includes Gwadar and Hormuz, odds are they will get destroyed by IN.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

fox said:


> To hell with weapons bro we are not Indians who blindly spending everything on weapons to become regional power we know their potential they don't have genes to become power or rule. We want to see economic and infrastructure development more than anything else i hope one day i will see these in Pakistan.



Indeed, if high speed train connect Kashgar to all Pakistan cities up the way to Gwadar than all business travel are within hours. the development between two countries will be exponential. Cross the fingers that everything will work out as your gorverment wishes and hope this day will come soon .



Contrarian said:


> They cant demolish IN in Indian Ocean Region. They can demolish it in SCS. In IOR, particularly close to Indian mainland - that includes Gwadar and Hormuz, odds are they will get destroyed by IN.



then if the case, why your gorvernment is so consern about this deal?

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## Contrarian

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> then if the case, why your gorvernment is so consern about this deal?



Because you can fight, does not mean you start courting one.
In anycase the govt has not issued a statement of concern at all! These are independent analyst writeups.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Contrarian said:


> ...
> In anycase the govt has not issued a statement of concern at all! These are independent analyst writeups.



Of course, no gorverment will be foolish enough to issue a statement publicly even they're not comfortable with but don't tell me that they're quiet behind door: Your gorverment is constanly monitored the development of this port since day one, India worst nightmare is to see one day that China has access to this port not because of military purpose but the geopolitic background: we can bypass all Indian sea blockage and have a direct short cut access to Arabian sea.

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## Contrarian

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Of course, no gorverment will be foolish enough to issue a statement publicly even they're not comfortable with but don't tell me that they're quiet behind door: Your gorverment is constanly monitored the development of this port since day one, India worst nightmare is to see one day that China has access to this port not because of military purpose but the geopolitic background: *we can bypass all Indian sea blockage* and have a direct short cut access to Arabian sea.



Actually it does not alleivate the blockade concerns. Indian Navy is by far the most dominant Navy in South Asia even if the rest of the countries pool their navies together. That is the extent of disparity. Unless PLAN comes directly - and the entire force, not a simple Surface Action Group, it is still easily blockable by IN.

However, IN is not capable of enforcing a blockade at 2 places at once. So the second pipeline that China is developing through Myanmar cannot be blockaded while Gwadar is being blockaded. It can be only one of two at the moment.

So China is indeed spreading risks of being blockaded for energy quite effectively. Gwadar initself presents no challenge, but coupled with Myanmar route it becomes very tough for IN alone. However it is still a breeze for USN and Singaporean Navies should they decide to do so.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Indeed Indian Navy by far is the most powerfull in this area but once Gwadar port and pipeline are operational, China will certainly assist Pakistan to defend our asset. The table might turn around that Gulf of Oman exit will be the chock point for any Indian energy supply road either Middle East or central Asia...all depend the balance of power in the future, Pakistan will be China only choice to put the money bet or we will lose all.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Contrarian said:


> Because you can fight, does not mean you start courting one.
> In anycase the govt has not issued a statement of concern at all! These are independent analyst writeups.



Didn't take too long to get your gorvernment official statement of concern

Antony: China Gwadar work is a worry | The Asian Age

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## Contrarian

The concern is only that the port doesn't become a military base.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

some video

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## muse

So far the concern is Gwadar, would be very surprised if " serious concern" is also expressed when Chinese companies are partners in offshore explorations in what Pakistan claims as it EEZ?


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## Solomon2

Contrarian said:


> The concern is only that the port doesn't become a military base.


That's India's concern. But Pakistanis' concern should be whether they'll ever get Gwadar back from the Chinese. Gwadar's population is only 50,000. When the port is going it could add another 50,000 - and I know Chinese hiring practices. Once Gwadar's population of Chinese (even in only a subsection of the city) is greater than that of Pakistanis what will happen? 

Remember, China claims sovereignty over all Chinese, everywhere - at least, that's how Chinese students here justify extending Chinese control to all sorts of places. Singapore maintains its independence from China and Malaysia with a strong military, alliances, and the water barrier. Gwadar doesn't have those advantages; with a high-speed link substantial PLA forces can travel from Yunnan to Gwadar in less than a week, much less if pre-positioned first. Do you think China will tolerate Gwadar turning into another Karachi?


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## muse

Sol

We're actually hoping that the high speed trains will carry paying passengers both ways - Thanks for your "concern", though I don't imagine there will be many US passengers, they travels in aircraft carriers and I don't think those will be welcome, but I'm sure US investment is just as welcome as Chinese investment

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## Solomon2

muse said:


> ...I'm sure US investment is just as welcome as Chinese investment


I think you'll find Pakistanis won't have a say in this matter, only Chinese will. The Chinese may claim they get ahead of others by working harder but my observation and experience - as well as a good chunk of history - shows that when they have a choice they will operate by racial preference. That's why the Singaporeans, to keep civil peace, have laws that attempt to enforce Malay employment by Chinese employers. Something Pakistan might want to consider rather than handing the Chinese near-sovereign rights to Gwadar and its connecting rail link.


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## ChinaToday

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Didn't take too long to get your gorvernment official statement of concern
> 
> Antony: China Gwadar work is a worry | The Asian Age



*China defends Gwadar port control, ignores Indian concern*

BEIJING: China on Thursday said it would go ahead with plans to manage the Gwadar port in Pakistan, which observers claim might pave the way for Beijing's naval presence in the Arabian Sea. India has expressed concern over the Chinese move. 

"China and Pakistan are friendly neighbours. Over long period of time, Chinese companies have been participating in cooperation projects across the board," said Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying during a briefing. China will support projects in Pakistan so long they are conducive to bilateral friendship and development. 

"As long as these things are conducive to China-Pakistan friendship and the development and prosperity of the country, the Chinese side will actively support them," Hua said. 

Chinese authorities are still evading direct questions on whether or not Gwadar port will be used for naval purposes. Islamabad is keen to see enhanced Chinese activity in Gwadar in order to involve China in its own disputes with India along the Arabian Sea. 

Pakistan recently decided to replace the Singapore Port Trust, which was managing the China built Gwadar port due to some differences, and give the management contract to a state owned Chinese company. 

Gwadar has failed to attract enough business in past years, and did not help China's intentions of using it to reduce the cost of transporting oil from the Gulf region. 

Beijing is expected to make another attempt to make better use of the Pakistani port now that it has management control. Back in 2011, the Chinese foreign ministry had denied any plans to build a Naval base at Gwadar. But Beijing is not giving any clear assurance about its intentions in Gwadar this time. 

China defends Gwadar port control, ignores Indian concern - The Times of India


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## muse

Solomon2 said:


> I think you'll find Pakistanis won't have a say in this matter, only Chinese will. The Chinese may claim they get ahead of others by working harder but my observation and experience - as well as a good chunk of history - shows that when they have a choice they will operate by racial preference. That's why the Singaporeans, to keep civil peace, have laws that attempt to enforce Malay employment by Chinese employers. Something Pakistan might want to consider rather than handing the Chinese near-sovereign rights to Gwadar and its connecting rail link.



I think right now, the fact that US does not have a say in it, is of greater concern -- Invest, bring $$, and leave this China bogey man bit - lets all make money - It is a curious thing that US which is so pro-business turns to threats of sponsoring terror whenever the word "China" is to be heard. Counter the Chinese by offering more F16. 

Relax, no sovereign rights are being transferred to anybody


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## Solomon2

muse said:


> I think right now, the fact that US does not have a say in it, is of greater concern -- Invest, bring $$ -


No, that's not my concern at all, and I fail to see how you think it, save perhaps because Karachi was built up by the Brits and Pakistanis may mistakenly see the U.S. as Britain but with deeper pockets.



> Relax, no sovereign rights are being transferred to anybody


How would you know? Details of the agreement are not public. I suggest you monitor developments closely - not gov't pronouncements, but what's happening at Gwadar and along the connections to it.


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## muse

Then lets monitor the developments together and raise hell if Pakistani sovereignty is threatened (just like with the Drones)


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Solomon2 said:


> That's India's concern. *But Pakistanis' concern should be whether they'll ever get Gwadar back from the Chinese*. Gwadar's population is only 50,000. When the port is going it could add another 50,000 - and I know Chinese hiring practices. Once Gwadar's population of Chinese (even in only a subsection of the city) is greater than that of Pakistanis what will happen?
> 
> Remember, China claims sovereignty over all Chinese, everywhere - at least, that's how Chinese students here justify extending Chinese control to all sorts of places. Singapore maintains its independence from China and Malaysia with a strong military, alliances, and the water barrier. Gwadar doesn't have those advantages; with a high-speed link substantial PLA forces can travel from Yunnan to Gwadar in less than a week, much less if pre-positioned first. Do you think China will tolerate Gwadar turning into another Karachi?



I don't blame for your obsession about Gwadar , it's been since day one of the Gwadar port construction that U.S is been obsessed of any Chinese connection or access to Indian Ocean via Pakistan, they have done everything to prevent this to be happened,* when everything failed, then the best way is to sell China threat theory*, Ask yourself how effective your China threat theory is ? if no afrcan nations buy that nor South Latine America nations, they all know how Americans had traited and exploited them in the pass, China is the geopolitic and geo-economy counterweight of U.S. and work on their favor.


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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> No, that's not my concern at all, and I fail to see how you think it, save perhaps because Karachi was built up by the Brits and Pakistanis may mistakenly see the U.S. as Britain but with deeper pockets.
> 
> How would you know? Details of the agreement are not public. I suggest you monitor developments closely - not gov't pronouncements, but what's happening at Gwadar and along the connections to it.


What would you say about this ...The plans of your jewish friends must be known to you as well if we dont allow chinese foot print in gwadar you will succeed very easily so lets make it a bit hard and make you guys earn what ever you will get when the great game reaches some conclusion.

I know you would call it a conspiracy theory as thats easy but these maps were made decades ago and are very detailed in logic and purpose and we can see half of work is already completed.

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## Solomon2

muse said:


> Then lets monitor the developments together and raise hell if Pakistani sovereignty is threatened (just like with the Drones)


Note that "just like with the drones" China has the right under UNSCR 1373 to intervene militarily if Pakistan fails to eliminate terrorist activity and establish its control.


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## Solomon2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I don't blame for your obsession about Gwadar , it's been since day one of the Gwadar port construction that U.S is been obsessed of any Chinese connection or access to Indian Ocean via Pakistan, they have done everything to prevent this to be happened -


I disagree. I don't speak for the USG but I think China communication w/Indian Ocean through Pakistan can be a good thing; it reduces strategic pressure in the Singapore area. Nonetheless I don't think Gwadar should serve as means to wedge open Pakistan to Chinese colonization.



Albatross said:


> What would you say about this ...The plans of your jewish friends must be known to you as well if we dont allow chinese foot print in gwadar you will succeed very easily -


This rant is too far in outer space for me to grasp.


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## EagleEyes

Solomon2 said:


> Note that "just like with the drones" China has the right under UNSCR 1373 to intervene militarily if Pakistan fails to eliminate terrorist activity and establish its control.



You are kidding. China unlike America will never take Pakistan sovereignty in its hand.

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## muse

Solomon2 said:


> Note that "just like with the drones" China has the right under UNSCR 1373 to intervene militarily if Pakistan fails to eliminate terrorist activity and establish its control.




Look at what's become of you lot - threats flow from you as if diarrhea - take a hold of yourself and make sense instead.

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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Solomon2 said:


> I disagree. I don't speak for the USG but I think China communication w/Indian Ocean through Pakistan can be a good thing; it reduces strategic pressure in the Singapore area. Nonetheless I don't think Gwadar should serve as means to wedge open Pakistan to Chinese colonization.



Chinese colonization? is thief is yelling for thief?, you should dig up the pass story about this port to reveil American true color, it was Americans first demande Pakistan to cede the total control over Gwadar port if ever built by them with condition that within the perimeter, all personal are to be americans include gate guard, no pakistani people is allow to step in, basically American claim the soverenty right over this port.

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## Solomon2

WebMaster said:


> You are kidding. China unlike America will never take Pakistan sovereignty in its hand.


Today I experienced a Chinese claim on the board that the Mongol Empire was a Chinese one - and Kublai Khan's control touched the Bay of Bengal and through subject Mongols the Arabian Sea. Do you really need me to figure these things out?



muse said:


> Look at what's become of you lot - threats flow from you as if diarrhea - take a hold of yourself and make sense instead.


A talented if messy metaphor. 



Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> Chinese colonization? is thief is yelling for thief?, you should dig up the pass story about this port to reveil American true color, it was Americans first demande Pakistan to cede the total control over Gwadar port if ever built by them with condition that within the perimeter, all personal are to be americans include gate guard, no pakistani people is allow to step in, basically American claim the soverenty right over this port.


I have no clue regarding these matters but I can't imagine anyone, sane or not, thinking that the U.S. ever plans to settle substantial portions of its populace in Asia and claim sovereign rights there.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Solomon2 said:


> Today I experienced a Chinese claim on the board that the Mongol Empire was a Chinese one - and Kublai Khan's control touched the Bay of Bengal and through subject Mongols the Arabian Sea. Do you really need me to figure these things out?



You can continue selling your China threat theory, in 21st century, people are realist and pragmatic enought to see the different between the fiction and reality especially when they have so much of bad experience with Western nations in the pass. What China has brought today is a win-win and prosperity for all and ask yourself what Western nation have proven themself in the pass ? they were the only unconstestable winner either in Africa or Latine America, make these nations own mountain of debts and even poorer while they're profiting.

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## Solomon2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> What China has brought today is a win-win and prosperity for all -


I'd love to see the written agreement. Care to share?


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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> I have no clue regarding these matters but I can't imagine anyone, sane or not, thinking that the U.S. ever plans to settle substantial portions of its populace in Asia and claim sovereign rights there.



Look at japan you nuked her then built her but still its been ages they are asking you to withdraw your bases from okinawa but though you guys dont CLAIM sovereign rights there still dont care what is the will of people of Japan.You guys are worst kind of hypocrites and have the audacity to defend your actions as well.
But now world has known you and your techniques If I remind you about Prescot bush helping hitler with funds while on the other hand your country was fighting against hitler after inducing in him through brainwashed men like you that he is the best thing for the progress of europe. And he was played and who won ? Had there been no holocaust there would have been no isra-hell today . 
we all are still looking for WMD in iraq ? 
OBL was he ever tried in any court of law? 
I know you will call this a rant as well but who cares all I want to convey is nobody is worst than capitalists/NWO followers/neocons and brainwashed robots like you so you need not to worry about china claiming gwadar.



Solomon2 said:


> I'd love to see the written agreement. Care to share?



Can you show me the written agreement regarding US drone strikes on Pakistan please.

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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> I disagree. I don't speak for the USG but I think China communication w/Indian Ocean through Pakistan can be a good thing; it reduces strategic pressure in the Singapore area. Nonetheless I don't think Gwadar should serve as means to wedge open Pakistan to Chinese colonization.
> 
> This rant is too far in outer space for me to grasp.



Do you know the new ways of colonization..You dont as you guys are blinded by skyscrapers and fake feelings of being the superior one's among the world in reality you guys are being manipulated by a bunch of such men.
*Some believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
David Rockefeller in his autobiography "Memoirs"*
Now call it a rant too...


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## Solomon2

Albatross said:


> Look at japan you nuked her then built her but still its been ages they are asking you to withdraw your bases from okinawa but though you guys dont CLAIM sovereign rights there still dont care what is the will of people of Japan.


Backwards. Okinawans want U.S. to leave Okinawa but rest of Japan wants U.S. to stay. The Okinawa facility is just one of many the U.S. has in Japan. And the Japanese were so industrious that not as much American capital as you seem to think was used to re-build their country, despite the fact Tokyo had been reduced to ash. (The two A-bombs were less damaging than the incendiary bombing of the city; it was their shock value that ended the war after only ~150,000 more casualties, rather than the one million expected in the upcoming U.S. invasion.)



> You guys are worst kind of hypocrites and have the audacity to defend your actions as well.


Meaning of actions can vary depending on context. As for "audacity" I have nothing to be ashamed of. Perhaps you mean, "tenacity"?



> Had there been no holocaust there would have been no isra-hell today .


There is no "isra-hell" today. There is Israel, a rather pleasant if challenging place. International encouragement of Jewish "close settlement" of Palestine was authorized by the League of Nations after WWI, not WWII, and even the Ottoman Caliph endorsed it.



> ...all I want to convey is nobody is worst than capitalists/NWO followers/neocons and brainwashed robots like you so you need not to worry about china claiming gwadar.


You sound resentful and hungry for power. If you're looking for "brainwashed robots" you might want to look into a mirror. What else do you call it when all your arguments fail but you still hold onto your convictions?



> Can you show me the written agreement regarding US drone strikes on Pakistan please.


Is there one? I've pointed out many times that UNSC 1373 allows foreign military intervention in areas terrorists rule or hide out in and the Pakistani gov't cannot control. I've tried to get the USG to assert this openly but have met no response; and of course Pakistan's own officials keep this deeply buried. All part of your brainwashing. You probably still think India started the 1965 Kashmir conflict when all the world's observers saw thinly-disguised Pakistani troops cross the border instead.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

Solomon2 said:


> I'd love to see the written agreement. Care to share?



you can google its


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## Solomon2

Albatross said:


> ...You dont as you guys are blinded by skyscrapers and fake feelings of being the superior one's among the world in reality you guys are being manipulated by a bunch of such men.


Odd. I presume then that deep down you really do believe that Americans are "superior", whatever that's supposed to mean.



> Some believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as "internationalists" and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it."
> David Rockefeller in his autobiography "Memoirs"


Dated. The oil and steel trusts were broken up after Rockefeller wrote this, about a century ago. (Japan's parallel arrangement, cited as having promoted its militancy, was broken up by MacArthur after WWII.)


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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> Backwards. Okinawans want U.S. to leave Okinawa but rest of Japan wants U.S. to stay.



Japan threatens to kick out US troops - Telegraph

But this UK newspaper is painting a total different picture care to explain why so?




> There is no "isra-hell" today. There is Israel, a rather pleasant if challenging place. International encouragement of Jewish "close settlement" of Palestine was authorized by the League of Nations after WWI, not WWII, and even the Ottoman Caliph endorsed it.



It is isra-hell considering thousands of innocent humans you and your friends killed there other wise why would it run away like this.

Israel boycotts UN forum, first state in history to ignore human rights review &mdash; RT


> You sound resentful and hungry for power.



I never knew americans get scared so easily.




> you probably still think India started the 1965 Kashmir conflict when all the world's observers saw thinly-disguised Pakistani troops cross the border instead



I know very well who started 65 and 99 too but do you know who did 9/11 or you still believe cavemen did it.


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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> Dated. The oil and steel trusts were broken up after Rockefeller wrote this,* about a century ago*. (Japan's parallel arrangement, cited as having promoted its militancy, was broken up by MacArthur after WWII.)



His memoirs were published in 2002.


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## Contrarian

Solomon2 said:


> That's India's concern. But Pakistanis' concern should be whether they'll ever get Gwadar back from the Chinese. Gwadar's population is only 50,000. When the port is going it could add another 50,000 - and I know Chinese hiring practices. Once Gwadar's population of Chinese (even in only a subsection of the city) is greater than that of Pakistanis what will happen?
> 
> Remember, China claims sovereignty over all Chinese, everywhere - at least, that's how Chinese students here justify extending Chinese control to all sorts of places. Singapore maintains its independence from China and Malaysia with a strong military, alliances, and the water barrier. Gwadar doesn't have those advantages; with a high-speed link substantial PLA forces can travel from Yunnan to Gwadar in less than a week, much less if pre-positioned first. Do you think China will tolerate Gwadar turning into another Karachi?


I disagree with this part. I donot think China can enforce its territorial rights over Pakistan regardless of Chinese population. The thing to remember here is that Pakistan Army is head and shoulders above PLA in training, and the logistics line is tenuous at best - one highway and maybe in the future one HSR? Both can be easily disabled.

Lastly, Gwadar itself is in Arabian sea with no historic record of Chinese occupation. 

However that China may arm twist the Pakistani Govt into signing leases of occupation is another thing altogether.



muse said:


> I think right now, the fact that US does not have a say in it, is of greater concern -- Invest, bring $$, and leave this China bogey man bit - lets all make money - It is a curious thing that US which is so pro-business turns to threats of sponsoring terror whenever the word "China" is to be heard. Counter the Chinese by offering more F16.
> 
> Relax, no sovereign rights are being transferred to anybody



Solomon is very very right on the employement issue. I dont know how much experience you have of Chinese companies working in other countries - like Africa or even India for that matter. 
They DONT generate a lot of local employement. They literally bring thousands of workers, even small jobs like plumbers, etc from China.

Indian Govt has officially spoken about this to China, the msg was conveyed that visa's would not be given to all and sundry and to Indian companies working in collaboration with them as well, that Indian jobs should be generated. I dont think this is a small issue.


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## Slav Defence

WebMaster said:


> You are kidding. China unlike America will never take Pakistan sovereignty in its hand.



there is another point....gawader port will benefit china as trade route.but in millitry sense it will benifit U.S.A....so Pakistan should give it to china rather then U.S.A.and it is an excellent stand that our government has taken right now.thankgod,they prefer to follow Musharraf's policy,no doubt he was the man with big brain


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## Jango

Solomon2 said:


> That's India's concern. But Pakistanis' concern should be whether they'll ever get Gwadar back from the Chinese.  Gwadar's population is only 50,000. When the port is going it could add another 50,000 - and I know Chinese hiring practices. Once Gwadar's population of Chinese (even in only a subsection of the city) is greater than that of Pakistanis what will happen?
> 
> Remember, China claims sovereignty over all Chinese, everywhere - at least, that's how Chinese students here justify extending Chinese control to all sorts of places. Singapore maintains its independence from China and Malaysia with a strong military, alliances, and the water barrier. Gwadar doesn't have those advantages; with a high-speed link substantial PLA forces can travel from Yunnan to Gwadar in less than a week, much less if pre-positioned first. Do you think China will tolerate Gwadar turning into another Karachi?



That's a really great analysis...kudos to you O' Solomon2.

A great hypothesis indeed!

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## newdelhinsa

Contrarian said:


> I disagree with this part.



This is what Tibetans were thinking just because they signed a treaty that during an attack Chinese will come to their aid, they were annexed because of that document with China.


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## Kiss_of_the_Dragon

I just love how indian overcook Chinese threat when they're so helpless about preventing China to access Arabian sea 

And also prevent Paksitan to create a military port beyong India target range. Not only that Pakistan will have potential to chock Indian energy surply road in eventual conflict: Once this port become Pakistan Navy base, it could act as unsinkable aircraft carriers if ever the airbase is also be built, with long rang strike fighter such J-11b and J-16, Pakistan will be able to cover the entire exit of Indian cargo ship. and sea blockade of over one month will collapse Indian economy and put nation into chaos.

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## Solomon2

Albatross said:


> Japan threatens to kick out US troops - Telegraph
> 
> But this UK newspaper is painting a total different picture care to explain why so?


Politics. The Japanese FM may SAY he wants the southern emphasis reduced but he didn't actually DO anything about it. The article is over three years old, we would have seen action by now if he meant it.



> It is isra-hell considering thousands of innocent humans you and your friends killed there other wise why would it run away like this.


Together the tyrants and antisemites in the UNHRC are a majority. The tyrants hate Israel's democracy and the antisemites despise the Jews. Far and away the majority of its activities have to do with empty Israel-bashing. I see no reason for Israel's representatives to remain in the room and be subject to such unjustifiable abuse, do you?



> I never knew americans get scared so easily.


A future with someone like you wielding despotic power is something to be avoided. Scared? If I swerve to avoid a deer in the road rather than run over it that's good judgment. Jerk left, jerk right, straighten wheel, and move on.



> I know very well who started 65 and 99 too but do you know who did 9/11 or you still believe cavemen did it.


I'll take that as an admission that you refuse to admit facts you know. Do we stop here or will you press yourself further?



Emrald said:


> there is another point....gawader port will benefit china as trade route.but in millitry sense it will benifit U.S.A....so Pakistan should give it to china rather then U.S.A.and it is an excellent stand that our government has taken right now.thankgod,they prefer to follow Musharraf's policy,no doubt he was the man with big brain


How much money do you think it will take China in bribes to pull this off?


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## Solomon2

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I just love how indian overcook Chinese threat when they're so helpless about preventing China to access Arabian sea


Who wants to prevent China access to the Arabian Sea? Really, it's like the problems the Brits had with the Soviets before and during WWII. It took a long time for the Soviets to accept that Churchill really meant what he said about ensuring the Soviets freedom of navigation through the Dardanelles and Gibraltar Straits. And why not? Everybody's security was enhanced that way.



> And also prevent Paksitan to create a military port beyong India target range. Not only that Pakistan will have potential to chock Indian energy surply road in eventual conflict: Once this port become Pakistan Navy base, it could act as unsinkable aircraft carriers if ever the airbase is also be built, with long rang strike fighter such J-11b and J-16, Pakistan will be able to cover the entire exit of Indian cargo ship. and sea blockade of over one month will collapse Indian economy and put nation into chaos.


Interesting. I never thought of this. Do you really think the Pakistanis will sacrifice themselves not in the interests of their own security but to further China's geopolitical leverage in Asia?


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## INDIC

Kiss_of_the_Dragon said:


> I just love how indian overcook Chinese threat when they're so helpless about preventing China to access Arabian sea
> 
> *And also prevent Paksitan to create a military port beyong India target range.* Not only that Pakistan will have potential to chock Indian energy surply road in eventual conflict: Once this port become Pakistan Navy base, it could act as unsinkable aircraft carriers if ever the airbase is also be built, with long rang strike fighter such J-11b and J-16, Pakistan will be able to cover the entire exit of Indian cargo ship. and sea blockade of over one month will collapse Indian economy and put nation into chaos.



Won't make any change our Karwar Naval base is sufficient to deal with it, only worry will be Chinese presence in Arabian Sea. Infact, China need to worry about that their major oil supply routes passes through our Andaman and Nicobar Islands.


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## Slav Defence

Solomon2 said:


> Who wants to prevent China access to the Arabian Sea? Really, it's like the problems the Brits had with the Soviets before and during WWII. It took a long time for the Soviets to accept that Churchill really meant what he said about ensuring the Soviets freedom of navigation through the Dardanelles and Gibraltar Straits. And why not? Everybody's security was enhanced that way.
> 
> Interesting. I never thought of this. Do you really think the Pakistanis will sacrifice themselves not in the interests of their own security but to further China's geopolitical leverage in Asia?



whatever is your assumption but I do admit one thing.....pak-china has same relations as of your relations with Israel......and in these types of relations we tolerate everything for our benifit and china has still done nothing that bad as U.S is doing sorry man....


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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> Politics. The Japanese FM may SAY he wants the southern emphasis reduced but he didn't actually DO anything about it. The article is over three years old, we would have seen action by now if he meant it.



Earlier you said Japenese do not want to kick out Americans when I gave you a proof of their democratically elected FM stating so you called it mere polictics. I guess this american belief should end now, with the rest of world abusing them over their heinous crimes against humanity, that only they can think good and are responsible for the well being of whole planet .



> Together the tyrants and antisemites in the UNHRC are a majority. The tyrants hate Israel's democracy and the antisemites despise the Jews. Far and away the majority of its activities have to do with empty Israel-bashing. I see no reason for Israel's representatives to remain in the room and be subject to such unjustifiable abuse, do you?








Ground reaility paints a totally different picture its not palestinians who are expanding its isra-hell who is proclaiming palestinians land and is killing their women and children in cold blood and therefore can be rightly said tyrant. And now you want that nobody even raise voice for the palestinian victims.



> A future with someone like you wielding despotic power is something to be avoided.



We have seen great empires like Rome and babylons and they all thought then the same that they were the best to rule this world but history proved they were wrong and thats whats destined for tyrants and self-proclaimed world policeman US and future belongs to whom only time will tell as you guys despite all your powers cant avoid even natural stroms that create havoc everynow and then what makes you think you are powerful enough to shape future .

we are far better than neocons and jews as we are what we are inside and dont believe in deception and false flag operation the things you have built your empire on.And people like JFK who tries to stand for truth are mercilessly assassinated.



> I'll take that as an admission that you refuse to admit facts you know


. 
And I will take it as an admission that you are bound to act as a dumbhead when you are speechless and lacks any rational and logical answer.



> Do we stop here or will you press yourself further?



I will keep on cornering you until you stop replying in this masonic robotic way.Btw did you attend bohemian groove last year I heard it was very eventfull.Or you havnt yet elevated to those so-calledbprestigious ranks and you are just a paid foot soldier number of which neocaons have inducted to promote and advocate their bloody agenda's wrapped in peace slogans on online forums?




> How much money do you think it will take China in bribes to pull this off?



I guess it should be less than what US had been paying our policticians and generals in past to rein them in whenever US wanted pakistan because china will never abandon us once their purpose is fullfilled like america.

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## FaisalRehman

Gawader port cannot be successful like karachi port unless you provide railway line. Because railways is second cheapest logistic for goods after sea. It will be a huge disasterous failure without railway track. 
Furthermore, in order to turn it into gold, you need railway track joining afg, iran, central asia, turkey, china and india.


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## Solomon2

Emrald said:


> whatever is your assumption but I do admit one thing.....pak-china has same relations as of your relations with Israel...


Since you live in Pakistan the knowledge and context to properly analyze the U.S.-Israel relationship has been denied you as a matter of official ideology. Trying to fit the China-Pakistan relationship in the same frame is inaccurate at best and can lead to deadly misjudgments at worst.


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## Solomon2

Albatross said:


> Earlier you said Japenese do not want to kick out Americans when I gave you a proof of their democratically elected FM stating so you called it mere polictics.


It's been more frustrating to the Okinawans and Americans than it is to you, I'm sure. The U.S. can't redeploy elsewhere in Japan without the agreement of the Japanese gov't, nor can it pull out many troops without hazarding the U.S.-Japan defense arrangement that event the Chinese wish to keep intact. In the end about half the marines were redeployed elsewhere: link



> I guess this american belief should end now, with the rest of world abusing them over their heinous crimes against humanity, that only they can think good and are responsible for the well being of whole planet .


A gross exaggeration, but what other nation today is great enough to both voice responsibility and act with conscious self-denial and generosity the way the U.S. has? Was it the Chinese who sent swarms of ships and tonnes of supplies after disasters in Indonesia, Haiti, and Pakistan itself?



> Ground reaility paints a totally different picture its not palestinians who are expanding its isra-hell who is proclaiming palestinians land and is killing their women and children in cold blood and therefore can be rightly said tyrant. -


Except your facts and interpretation of facts are both wrong, hence you can't "rightly say" anything. These maps have been refuted on this forum many times.



> And now you want that nobody even raise voice for the palestinian victims.


It's unfair that few Pakistanis care that the Palestinian Arabs are being terrorized by their own leaders. It's not unexpected, for very few protested the tyranny suffered by the Libyans, the Syrians, the Egyptians, etc. It just another illustration how, in general, the moral judgments of most Pakistanis are inverted. To their shame, those that know better - yes, even Pakistanis living here in the U.S. - won't bother to correct them. I suppose they either feel to weak to protect their families at home - or seek to play further political games in Pakistan itself.



> We have seen great empires like Rome and babylons and they all thought then the same that they were the best to rule this world -


Ah, you're thinking the U.S. is like the British Empire writ large. Yet does the U.S. collect taxes from Pakistan? Does the U.S. remove Pakistan's leaders at will? Does the U.S. control Pakistan's education system? Does the U.S. conscript Pakistanis from their cities and home villages? Rome, Athens, Babylon, Britain, Russia, Austria, France....they all did that. But the U.S. doesn't. You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.



> ...despite all your powers cant avoid even natural stroms that create havoc everynow and then what makes you think you are powerful enough to shape future


You attach your loyalty to _weather control?_ Now it's up to you to prove whether you believe in Allah or Thor or Zeus, yes?



> we are far better than neocons and jews as we are what we are inside and dont believe in deception and false flag operation


In this matter you do have enough information to make moral judgment: 26/11. What excuse do you have for ignoring it?



> Btw did you attend bohemian groove last year I heard it was very eventfull.


Never heard of it. Went to AIPAC conference last year and reported on it here.



> you are just a paid foot soldier number of which neocaons have inducted to promote and advocate their bloody agenda's wrapped in peace slogans on online forums?


Use your brain. If I did this for money I'd be here more often and I'd be a lot less motivated.



> ...china will never abandon us once their purpose is fullfilled like america.


At the end of your rant you end up _*agreeing*_ with me, the only thing is that you think that's a good thing, not a bad one??!!


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## Pakistanisage

It is not just Gwadar that is Chinese Base, all of Pakistan is Chinese Base. 

An attack on China is an attack on Pakistan.

China is Pakistan's main Strategic Partner and Ally.


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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> An attack on China is an attack on Pakistan.


We Americans also once heard the, "your enemies are our enemies" from Pakistani leaders. Everybody has seen how that's turned out. The Chinese aren't going to fall into the same trap.

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## BATMAN

Solomon2 said:


> We Americans also once heard the, "your enemies are our enemies" from Pakistani leaders. Everybody has seen how that's turned out. The Chinese aren't going to fall into the same trap.



lol @ we Americans!

I understand, hindus are troubled but what is your trouble.. you Indian-Americans already have Afghanistan and free transit.... oh sorry you announced to pay $250/container.. where Zardari will count containers?


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## tarrar

A very, very good move. Gawadar Port is going to be huge source of income for Pakistan & I believe by this move both countries will come even more closer. I can already see our Chinese brothers are happy on this thread.


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## TVVELVEMO$

A more elegant and nuanced view ought to be:

It is a positive development for Pakistan with caveats. Anything that helps the Pakistani economy, will be good for the wider region. 

However, if this port were a metaphorical "Road"; then we should ask what will be the "rules" of this road and who will police this road. Say if China designs this road to ONLY benefit itself and eliminate competitors then it will be not helpful. The road should be "open" and free to all players.

Put differently, if Pakistan was a property owner who allowed a tycoon to build a Night Club on his land and then was content on getting basic rent Or being a bouncer at the door, collecting gratuity and pay-to-play dollar bills - while the tycoon sits in the back office desk making ALL the big money plays; ask yourselves who is the big winner and who is the big loser?

Pakistan must make sure highly trained Pakistanis in the art of maritime commerce and laws get to sit on the big table and influence decisions that will bind Pakistan to future obligations. For example all cargo from this port must NOT transit through sust but also must be routed through Pak-Wakhan-Tajik-Ferghana routes. Those who know - will understand.

Another example can be to leave space for port expansion to be awarded to a third party via a transparent process to say a Korean, Finnish or Norwegian company. 

So does Pakistan own the future of this port? The answer to this question will tell us how much Pakistan will benefit? Do not be content on collecting shipping charges......remember bouncers inevitably get 'bounced' by more powerful men.

Cheers mate.


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## tarrar

I will also like to add to what I had said earlier, that now China will now also sell lots of Military Hardware to Pakistan & I believe China is also willing to invest in many development projects, like Dams, electricity, Railways & etc. Today only China can help develop Pakistan at a faster rate, just like in Gen. Musharraf's era.

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## muse

tarrar said:


> I will also like to add to what I had said earlier, that now China will now also sell lots of Military Hardware to Pakistan & I believe China is also willing to invest in many development projects, like Dams, electricity, Railways & etc. Today only China can help develop Pakistan at a faster rate, just like in Gen. Musharraf's era.




The issue has never been that China do not want a deeper relationship - don't count the chickens before they hatch- lot can go wrong, terribly wrong - First, the Wahabi terrorists have victimized the Chinese and can do it again, in fact it's almost a guarantee that they will try to do this again - nd if Pakistan fails to protect them, well, the rest of world, including China, put a higher premium on the lives of their citizens than Pakistani officials and public seem to

And of course, as you know, the Pakistan economy will continue to grow at between 3 to 4% regardless of what the govt does, however, If govt economic and security policies are not directed towards high growth, high stability, increased transparency and efficient delivery of govt services, well, you know the rest.

So lets be sober, if we are sober and realize the challenges before hand, and work to minimize them - forewarned, forearmed and all that

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## Slav Defence

Solomon2 said:


> Since you live in Pakistan the knowledge and context to properly analyze the U.S.-Israel relationship has been denied you as a matter of official ideology. Trying to fit the China-Pakistan relationship in the same frame is inaccurate at best and can lead to deadly misjudgments at worst.



okay... @Solomon2, if i am wrong in your sight...then will you please explain your views about israel-us relation......i will be pleased to know.....because i do not declare that i know everything...but tell me,whenever i saw or studied i always found U.S supporting Israel and OBAMA himself declared what i said already.


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## Pakistanisage

Solomon2 said:


> We Americans also once heard the, "your enemies are our enemies" from Pakistani leaders. Everybody has seen how that's turned out. The Chinese aren't going to fall into the same trap.






I am an American and I know for a fact that America has never been Pakistan's Friend.

Pakistan has learnt to use America just as America has used Pakistan.

Let me refresh your ZIONIST memory, Genius.

From 1950 to 1965 , America was Supposedly Pakistan's so-called friend because America needed Pakistan at the height of Cold war with Soviet Union.

In 1965 the good ole USA stabbed Pakistan in its back and Pakistan become not such a close friend anymore.

In 1979 Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan and Ronald Reagan discovered how much he loved those Afghan Mujahideen so America again fell in love with Pakistan all over again.

Pakistan helped destroy Soviet forces in Afghanistan which helped in destruction and demise of Soviet Union. After the demise of Soviet Union America decided it no longer needed Pakistan and so Pakistan was back in the doghouse.

After 9/11 the good old USA decided it needed Pakistan's help in destroying Al Qaeda so Pakistan was again a Non-Nato ALLY of America.

Guess what genius, Pakistanis never considered America its Ally and has no qualms about America's sincerity with Pakistani people. Most Pakistanis consider America an Enemy ( over 80 % )

On the other hand since 1950 till today, China has never betrayed Pakistan and this is why according to a PEW survey 86% of Pakistanis have a favourable view of China ( This is the highest rating of China in any country ).

So don't even think about comparing China with America because as far as Pakistanis are concerned they don't belong in the same league. For Pakistanis , China is a true friend and America is an opportunistic parasite that comes and clings on for self interest only.

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## IndianTiger

first pakistan helped US in Afgan war by offering land nw doing same mistake, china is a nation which always look for profit they never helped pakistan in loss making situation. Expample 1971 war.
I think strategically its good move by Pakistan in which profit goes to China.

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## Solomon2

Pakistanisage said:


> Let me refresh your ZIONIST memory, Genius.


In caps, just the way I like it!



> From 1950 to 1965 , America was Supposedly Pakistan's so-called friend because America needed Pakistan at the height of Cold war with Soviet Union.


Pakistan received enormous quantities of U.S. military equipment for nothing or next to nothing. For this Pakistan had Nehru's flirtation with the Russians to thank: the U.S. realized that only Pakistan, with its claimed army of 250,000, could stand as a bulwark against Communist aggression in South Asia now that the Brits were gone.



> In 1965 the good ole USA stabbed Pakistan in its back and Pakistan become not such a close friend anymore.


The military relationship, defined in written agreements, was a mutual defense arrangement. In 1965 Pakistan tried unilaterally to convert it into U.S. support for aggressive war. Ayub & Co. had gotten tired of diplomacy and wanted to try their hands at war; besides, Z.A.B., the power behind the throne, wanted to conquer a third of India so Pakistan could then deal with the Indians as "equals". Ayub offered to blood as many Pakistanis as necessary to achieve "victory" but the U.S. refused to resupply him, compelling Pakistan to stop offensive operations.

Please don't take my word for it. Look up the USG side of the 1965 story in the declassified Foreign Relations of the United States, South Asia, 1965 and Z.A.B.'s 1967 book, _Myth of Independence._

Even so, the civilian development programs continued unabated after 1965. Pakistan was a model for development in the 1960s - my Encyclopedia Britannica has a photo of South Koreans coming to Pakistan for development advice. After 1971 civilian development took a hit for obvious reasons.



> Pakistan helped destroy Soviet forces in Afghanistan which helped in destruction and demise of Soviet Union. After the demise of Soviet Union America decided it no longer needed Pakistan and so Pakistan was back in the doghouse.


As documented by several authors, after the Soviet military withdrawal the U.S. wanted to keep the Soviet-sponsored regime in Kabul. Pakistan, however, wanted its own puppets in Kabul and sponsored the push to destroy it, over U.S. objections. The relentless quest for empire (e.g., "strategic depth") at the cost of amity is what put Pakistan in the "doghouse".



> Guess what genius, Pakistanis never considered America its Ally and has no qualms about America's sincerity with Pakistani people.


I know better than that because I had Pakistani diplomats as neighbors. What's your excuse?



> On the other hand since 1950 till today, China has never betrayed Pakistan and this is why according to a PEW survey 86% of Pakistanis have a favourable view of China ( This is the highest rating of China in any country ).


Until the 1990s the Chinese were too poor to provide much military or economic aid. Now that they are rich they still hold back. I haven't seen this in books or newspapers but my assessment is that the Chinese see how America's generosity was warped by Pakistani politicians into claims of dependence and domination, as if America was a Pakistani feudal or crime boss writ large. The Chinese thus put no strings on their aid to Pakistan, yet they won't provide much aid either. Consequently China may be a better friend _*of*_ Pakistan but will never become as much of a friend *to* Pakistan as America has been in the past and still is today.


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## Albatross

Solomon2 said:


> The U.S. can't redeploy elsewhere in Japan without the agreement of the Japanese gov't



They dont want a redeployment they want you out of their land as they are fully capable themselves.Just read completely..
Japan threatens to kick out US troops - Telegraph




> A gross exaggeration, but what other nation today is great enough to both voice responsibility and act with conscious self-denial and generosity the way the U.S. has? Was it the Chinese who sent swarms of ships and tonnes of supplies after disasters in Indonesia, Haiti, and Pakistan itself?



A man who gives a 1000 dollar in charity to keep a good public face and earns millions of dollars from drug and weapon trafficking what would you call him same is the case with america. American elites killed hundred of thousands in Iraq and in search of WMD which they knew dont exist just to get their hands on oil. For 6 years there was no flow meter at Basrah oil terminal and by bribing local official every tanker of chevron,BP,shell,AET had been loading extra 15-20 thousand TON of crude oil as compare to bill of loading.Let it be a ship a day though the jetty could accomodate 4 ships at a time getting a reference from min 10 thousand ton a day the monthly amount goes to 3 hundred thousand ton of oil free every month just multiply it with 100 dollar a barrel after first multiplying with how many barrels are there in a ton .You would get trillions of dollars Iraqi's were looted off and this is beside what you guys charged them for the war and their resconstruction. Afghanistan,libya ,veitnam and the list goes on and on and you here claim that the only good thing in this world is america..



> It's not unexpected, for very few protested the tyranny suffered by the Libyans, the Syrians, the Egyptians, etc.



Iraq is going through a civil war with a suicide bomb every other day. You guys sowed a sunni/shia war there successfully.Libya has hundred of armed men on roads with no state control . It was far better with qaddafi having free education and a better life than what they are having now.In syria everything was fine unless you guys interfered there as well and same goes with egyptians.
*Why dont you guys try for a real democracy in UK and kill that ***** queen and burn all her forts ? Why every britisher is paying for extremely high living standards via special taxes*??



> You're trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.



I just told you simple fact of life every sun that rises after a time set by Allah sets down and thats it.


> you believe in Allah or Thor or Zeus, yes?



You know very well whom I believe and the strength of this belief is what shakes socalled elites.



> In this matter you do have enough information to make moral judgment: 26/11. What excuse do you have for ignoring it?



You guys are still asking from world to give you a proof regarding hafiz saeed involvment and havnt got it yet even after offering 10 million dollar bounty that means you have no proof whatsoever why this rant??



> Never heard of it. Went to AIPAC conference last year and reported on it here.



That means you know nothing and are just a mummy's boy who thinks he is serving his nation.



> If I did this for money I'd be here more often and I'd be a lot less motivated.



You tell me why are you then doing this painting black as white?

And now I ask you one thing you guys always cry about democracy as in the middle east and now in syria.What this american democracy got you mommy boy america has the largest percentage of population in the whole world.Its the biggest police state and you guys are being fool at the hands of a bunch of people .
US Prison Population: The Largest in the World | LearnLiberty

One more question for you mommy boy. Who has the highest military sales and largest military manufacturers in world.USA or ? 

So if all these wars stops who is going to be the most effected nation?? you tell me?

Now another drama of yours and israel is about Iran and as you people say its a threat to regional peace just look at this and tell me who is threat to whom.

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## Solomon2

^^^^
Big bird, I think you're losing it. Meet your friend here: link


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## Albatross

@Solomon2
A little more doze for you mommy boy though I know you must be looking for ways to run now.
Incase you are interested why america is heading towards a collapse here is a reason.





And the only way to avoid that collapse is to initiate third world war but as we all know wars can be started as planned but they cant be ended as planned and outcome is beyond one's control. So lets see what happens but as I know your policy makers at DC are dictated by some heartless humans shaped animals a war is inevitable but as I said the results are unknown.

here JFK whom you guys killed later is claerly talking about them. The only sane president and independent president american had in last century.

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## Albatross

@Solomon2 

Though I am done with you for now atleast but this is the last attempt to break you free of this mental slavery that will get you nothing but remorse after a certain time.





If your elites ever wanted to work for the betterment of mankind they would not adopted the ways of destruction and espionage as these are the tools of tyrants and backstabbers.

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## KRAIT

I don't understand why people lecture other nations on humanity especially US. They are already developed nation. 

Lets discuss about why we are behind. I can criticize US for wars and meddling in other countries' affairs but what about those who suffer because of their own reasons and failures. 

Don't play victim card. Get up and do the work like China did. We all should learn from them.

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## Mian H Amin.

Thats a very good step, who cares about india we arent worried about them, its especial western powers , who are involved in balochistan by china stepping in its hopefull that those so called baloch libration terrorists will be sidelined.


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## Kompromat

@muse You are a party buster.


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## RangerPK

Audio said:


> Why is there no tourism here? It looks like fishery, fishery and more fishery. Such a picturesque land strip, it would look brilliant with hotels. Mountains in the back could serve for bycicle paths, rock-climbing etc, desert beyond the city for dune buggies....
> 
> You really don't appreciate what you have.



Provided nobody gets shot dead, robbed or kidnapped.


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## AsianLion

Whats the update now?

Pakistan is now finally building connections to Gwadar, it will be better than Dubai in20 years time.


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## AsianLion




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