# EXCLUSIVE : Was PRE-ISLAMIC ARABIA Hindu Nation ? Un Told Arabian Tales



## HK Indian MBT

EXCLUSIVE : Was PRE-ISLAMIC ARABIA Hindu Nation ?
Un Told Arabian Tales Revealed ! ! !

Before going into the thread Please make sure No trolls or Bashing at each other. Its Intresting Topic Lets debate and Grow our Knowledge. Information is wealth ! 






Arabia is an abbreviation. The original word even today
is Arbasthan. It originates in Arvasthan. As observed earlier
Sanskrit V changes into B. Arva in Sanskrit means a horse.
Arvasthan signifies a land of horses, and as we all know Arabia
is famous for its horses.

In the 6th and 7th centuries A.D. a wave of effecting a
complete break with the past spread over West Asia. All links
with the past were broken, images smashed, scriptures des-
troyed, education discontinued and the entire West Asian
region took a plunge in abyssmal ignorance which lasted for
centuries thereafter and perhaps persists to a certain extent
even today because if in the whole world modern scientific and
educational developments find stubborn and entrenched resis-
tance anywhere it is in the West Asian countries. It is said
that the late Saudi Arabia ruler could not permit a radio
broadcasting station opened in his own capital because of
oposition from his Maulavis. He then resorted to a stratagem.
Once while he had his council of Maulavis in attendance he had
a radio set switched on to a program of Koranic recitation
broadcast from a small transmitting station set up earlier
without much ado. The Maulavis were delighted, so goes the
report, to hear the word of Allah coming to them as if from
nowhere. The king told them that what objections could they
have to a mechanism which broadcast the word of Allah. The
Maulavis agreed and the small radio broadcasting project was
at last ratified.

According to Encyclopaedia Britannica and Encyclø-
paedia Islamia the Arabs are ignorant of their own history of
the pre-Muslim era. By a strange euphemism they call it a
period of ignorance and darkness. Probably no other country
in the world has deliberately written off a 2,500 year period of
their own history by systematically stamping out and snapping
all links with the past. They have wiped the memories of pre-
Muslim era off their minds. So while they chose to remain
ignorant of their past ironically enough it is they who dub the
pre-Muslim era as a period of ignorance.

Fortunately we can still trace the history of that pre-
Islamic Arabia. It is a well known adage that there is no such
thing as foolproof destruction of all evidence. The pre-Islamic
history of Arabia is the story of Indian Kshatriyas over that
land, with the people following the Vedic way of life.

In our attempt to reconstruct the story of pre-Islamic
Arabia we begin with the name of the country itself. As
explained earlier the name is fully Sanskrit. Its central
pilgrim centre, Mecca is also a Sanskrit name. Makha in
Sanskrit signifies a sacrificial fire. Since Vedic fire worship
was prevalent all over West Asia in pre-Islamic days Makha
signifies the place which had an important shrine of fire
worship.






Coinciding with the annual pilgrimage of huge bazaar
used to spring up in Makha i.e. Mecca since times immemorial.
The annual pilgrimage of Muslims to Mecca is not at all an
innovation but a continuation of the ancient pilgrimage. This
fact is mentioned in encyclopedias.

VIKRAMADITYA

Evidence is now available that the whole of Arabia was
part of the great Indian King Vikramadityas vast empire. The
extent of Vikramadityas empire is one of the main reasons for
his world wide fame. Incidentally this also explains many
intriguing features about Arabia. It could be that
Vikramaditya himself had this peninsula named Arvasthan if
he was the first Indian monarch to capture it and bring it
under his sway.






The second intriguing aspect is the existence of a
Shivalinga or the Mahadeva emblem in the Kaaba shrine in
Mecca. Before going into further details about the ancient
Vedic rituals and names still clinging to Muslim worship at
Mecca we shall see what evidence we have about Arabia
having formed part of Vikramadityas dominions.

ANTHOLOGY OF ANCIENT ARABIC POETRY: SAYAR-UL-OKUL

In Istanbul in Turkey, there is a famous library called
Makteb-e-Sultania which is reputed to have the largest
collection of ancient West Asian literature. In the Arabic
Section of that library is an anthology of ancient Arabic
poetry. That anthology was compiled from an earlier work in
A.D. 1742 under the orders of the Turkish ruler Sultan Salim.

The pages of that volume are made of HAREER  a kind
of silk used for writing on. Each page has a decorative gilded
border. It may be recalled that gilding pages of sacred books is
an ancient custom associated with old Sanskrit scriptures
found in Java and other places. The anthology itself is known
as SAYAR-UL-OKUL. It is divided into three parts, the first
part contains biographic details and the poetic compositions of
pre-Islamic Arabian poets. The second part embodies accounts
and verses of poets of the period beginning just after Prophet
Mohammad up to the end of Banee- Ummayya dynasty. The
third part deals with later poets up to the end of Khalifa
Harun-al-Rashids times. Incidentally Banee means Vanee
and Ummayya as in Krishnayya are Sanskrit names.

Abu Amir Abdul Asamai, a distinguished Arabian bard
who was the Poet Laureate of Harun-al-Rashids court has
compiled and edited the anthology.

The first modern edition of Sayar-ul-Okul anthology was
printed and published in Berlin in A.D. 1864. A subsequent
edition was published in Beirut in A.D. 1932. This work is
regarded as the most important and authoritative anthology of
ancient Arabic poetry. It throws considerable light on the
social life, customs, manners and entertainment forms in
ancient Arabia. The book also contains an elaborate descrip-
tion of the ancient Mecca shrine, the town and the annual fair
known as OKAJ which used to be held there every year. This
should convince readers that the annual Haj of the Muslims to
the Kaaba is only a continuation of the old fair and not a new
practice.

But the OKAJ fair was far from a carnival. It
provided a forum for the elite and learned to discuss the
social, religious, political, literary and other aspects of the
Vedic culture then pervading Arabia. Sayar-ul-Okul asserts
that the conclusions reached at those discussions were widely

respected througout Arabia. Mecca, therefore, followed the
Varanasi tradition of providing a seat for important discussions
among the learned while the masses congregated there for
spiritual bliss. The principal shrines at both Varanasi in India
and at Mecca in Arvasthan were Shiva temples. Even to this
day the central object of veneration at both Mecca and
Varanasi continues to be the ancient Mahadeva emblems. It is
the Shankara stone which Muslim pilgrims reverently touch
and kiss in the Kaaba.

ENTRY OF NON-MUSLIMS FORBIDDEN

A few miles away from Mecca is a big signboard which
forbids entry to any non-Muslim in the area. This is a
reminder of the days when the Shrine was stormed and
captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The
object obviously was to prevent its recaptue.

As the pilgrim proceeds towards Mecca he is asked to
shave his head and beard and to don a special sacred attire.
This consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to
be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders.
Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of
entering Hindu shrines, clean shaven and with holy seamless
spotless white sheets.

The main shrine in Mecca which houses the Shiva emb-
lem is known as the Kaaba. It is clothed in a black shroud.
This custom could also originate from the days when it was
thought necessary to discourage its recapture. According to
encyclopaedias Britannica and Islamia the Kaaba had 360
images. Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities
among the 360 destroyed, when the shrine was stormed, was
that of Saturn, another was of the moon and yet another was
one called Allah. In India the practice of Navagraha puja that
is worship of the nine planets is still in vogue. Two of these
nine are the Saturn and the moon. Besides, the moon is always
associated with Lord Shankara. A Crescent is always painted
across the forehead of the Shiva emblem. Since the presiding
deity at the Kaaba shrine was Lord Shiva i.e. Shankara, the
crescent was also painted on it. It is that crescent which is
now adopted as a religious symbol of Islam. Another Hindu
tradition is that wherever there is a Shiva shrine the sacred
stream of Ganga that is the Ganges must also co-exist. True
to that tradition a sacred fount exists near the Kasba. Its
water is held sacred because it was regarded as but another
Ganga since pre-Islamic times. Muslim pilgrims visiting the
Kaaba shrine go around it seven times. In no other mosque
does this perambulation prevail. Hindus invariably perambu-
late around their shrines. This is yet another proof that the
Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic Shiva temple where the Hindu
practice of perambulation is still meticulously observed.

Allah is a Sanskrit word. In Sanskrit Allah, Akka and
Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The
term Allah appears in Sanskrit chants while invoking goddess
Durga i.e. Bhavani. The Islamic word Allah for God is
therefore not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appella-
tion retained and continued to be used by Islam.

The seven perambulations too are significant. At Hindu
wedding ceremonies the bride and bridegroom go round the
sacred fire seven times. the practice of seven perambultions
around the Kaaba shrine in Mecca is, therefore, a Hindu Vedic
custom. It is also a proof that Mecca was Makha or the shrine
of the sacred fire around which worshippers made seven
perambulations.

SAYAR-UL-OKUL tells us that a pan-Arabic poetic
symposium used to be held in Mecca at the annual Okaj fair in
pre-Islamic times. All leading poets used to participate in it.
Poems considered best were awarded prizes. The best poems
engraved on gold plate were hung inside the temple. Others
etched on camel or goat skin were hung outside. Thus for
thousands of years the Kaaba was the treasure house of the
best Arabian poetic thought. This tradition was of im-
memorial antiquity. But most of the poems got lost and
destroyed during the storming of the Kaaba by prophet Moham-
meds forces.

SAYAR-UL-OKUL is a poem by UMAR-BINE-HASSNAM
(Poetic Title: ABBUL-HIQAM meaning Father of Knowledge).
He was an uncle of prophet Mohammed. He refused to get
converted to Islam. He died a martyr at the hands of Muslim
fanatics who wanted to wipe out non-Muslims. This poem was
adjudged as the best in the annual fair at Kaaba.

QAFA VINAK ZIQRA MIN ULUMIN TAV
ASERU KALUBAN AYATTUL HAWA VA TAZAKKARU

A man who has spent all his life in sin and immorality and has
wasted away his life in passion and fury,

VA TAZAKEROHA AUDAN ELALVADAE LILVARA
VALUK YANK ZATULLA HE YOM TAB ASERU

If he repents in the end and wants to return to morality, is
there a way for his redemption?

VA AHLOLAHA AZAHU ARMIMAN MAHADEV O
MANAZEL ILAMUDDINE MINJUM VA SAYATTARU

Even if only once he sincerely worships Mahadeva, he can
attain the highest position in the path of righteousness.

VA SAHABI KEYAM FEEM QAMIL HINDE YOMAN
VA YAQULOON LATAHAZAN FAINNAK TAVAJ3ARU

Oh Lord! Take away all my life and in return pray grant me
even a single days stay in Hind (India) as a man becomes
spiritually free on reaching that holy land.

MAYASSAYARE AKHALAQAN HASNAN KULLAHUM
NAJUMUN AZAAT SUMM GABUL HINDU

By dint of a pilgrimage of Hind a man attains the merit of
noble deeds and gets the privilege of pious touch with ideal
Hindu teachers.​
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=479811465443917&set=a.479811378777259.1073741872.182221931869540&type=1&theater

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## BLACKEAGLE

looooooooooool


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## gOtHmOG

"Ancient Indian UFO"


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## HK Indian MBT

I just told No trolls Please . If you have Valid Points to make then Do so. You can say what is wrong and Why it is not right


BLACKEAGLE said:


> looooooooooool


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## Aryan Nation

They still eat lizards in saudi arabia which is haram.

Monotheism has nothing to do with arabia. It was invented in Persia around 4000 years ago. The oldest monotheistic religion is Zoroastrian, which created the concept of one divine entitiy (ahora) with a evil entity (ahriman). Zoroastrianism also created the concept of heaven and hell and judgement day. The arabians basically plagiarized that and made their own version of it. 

Arabians have no real history. Old Egypt,Mesopotamia has nothing to do with the afro semites whom are the saudis and Yemenis. Many yemeins and saudis look black like Nigerians. Egyptian are different, syrian and labanese are from levant which are different.

Thanks for your article. Saudis need to embrace their pre-islamic hindu traditions.

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## HK Indian MBT

Aryan Nation said:


> They still eat lizards in saudi arabia which is haram.
> 
> Monotheism has nothing to do with arabia. It was invented in Persia around 4000 years ago. The oldest monotheistic religion is Zoroastrian, which created the concept of one divine entitiy (ahora) with a evil entity (ahriman). Zoroastrianism also created the concept of heaven and hell and judgement day. The arabians basically plagiarized that and made their own version of it.
> 
> Arabians have no real history. Old Egypt,Mesopotamia has nothing to do with the afro semites whom are the saudis and Yemenis. Many yemeins and saudis look black like Nigerians. Egyptian are different, syrian and labanese are from levant which are different.
> 
> Thanks for your article. Saudis need to embrace their pre-islamic hindu traditions.


Nice Hear genuine Comment on this article. And R u from Iran @Aryan Nation


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## Aryan Nation

HK Indian MBT said:


> Nice Hear genuine Comment on this article. And R u from Iran @Aryan Nation



Yes I am from Iran brother.

Also don't worry too much about the saudis. They will rather die before admitting they stole Hinduism just like they stole monotheism.

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## HK Indian MBT

Aryan Nation said:


> Monotheism has nothing to do with arabia. It was invented in Persia around 4000 years ago. The oldest monotheistic religion is Zoroastrian, which created the concept of one divine entitiy (ahora) with a evil entity (ahriman). Zoroastrianism also created the concept of heaven and hell and judgement day. The arabians basically plagiarized that and made their own version of it.
> Thanks for your article. Saudis need to embrace their pre-islamic hindu traditions.


 @Aryan Nation Hinduism is the oldest religion. Infact Hinduism is Just a name Given for even older tradition. Which was followed by all nations. Its called Sanatana Dharma . Check this : Dwarka 32,000 year old city found under the sea.






Its Very Intresting topic.



Aryan Nation said:


> Yes I am from Iran brother.
> 
> Also don't worry too much about the saudis. They will rather die before admitting they stole Hinduism just like they stole monotheism.


Inia and Iran are Ancient Friends I could more likely say We are from one Family . Iran is peaceful Nation in all of Middle East . Stupid western Psychos Dont get it


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## Aryan Nation

HK Indian MBT said:


> @Aryan Nation Hinduism is the oldest religion. Infact Hinduism is Just a name Given for even older tradition. Which was followed by all nations. Its called Sanatana Dharma . Check this : Dwarka 32,000 year old city found under the sea.
> 
> 
> 
> Its Very Intresting topic.




Hinduism is the oldest religion, but I am talking about monotheism. Hinduisms is widely believed to be polytheism which is why I did not include it. Zoroastrianism was the first religion to believe in One god,heaven/hell, judgement day and so on. even the manner which they pray which copied in a sense because in Zoroastrianism when you're praying to god, you have to face towards a source of light, whether it's the sun or fire or whathever. Have you noticed how Muslims face towards something when they pray? I.e Mecca.


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## hunter_hunted

But dont you yindu phock off before you really embarrass yourself

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## HK Indian MBT

Aryan Nation said:


> They still eat lizards in saudi arabia which is haram.
> 
> Monotheism has nothing to do with arabia. It was invented in Persia around 4000 years ago. The oldest monotheistic religion is Zoroastrian, which created the concept of one divine entitiy (ahora) with a evil entity (ahriman). Zoroastrianism also created the concept of heaven and hell and judgement day. The arabians basically plagiarized that and made their own version of it.
> 
> Arabians have no real history. Old Egypt,Mesopotamia has nothing to do with the afro semites whom are the saudis and Yemenis. Many yemeins and saudis look black like Nigerians. Egyptian are different, syrian and labanese are from levant which are different.
> 
> Thanks for your article. Saudis need to embrace their pre-islamic hindu traditions.



Historians and theologians are still so confused even today because they have still not understood the events that led to the birth of Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism was born as a revolt against the religious setup in India. The mount on which Zoroaster received divine revelation was, in all probability, in India. He formed a new religion and called his God Asur Mazda, meaning God of Asurs (this later got morphed to Ahur Mazda). He rejected the religion of Devas, and termed their god as evil spirit, whose worshippers would go to hell. This new religion was repellant to Devas, who then expelled the Zoroastrians. This event, when Asurs were expelled out of India, is frequently termed in Indian scriptures as &#8216;Devasur Sangram,' a bloody pre-historic war. Zoroaster led his people to the nearby region of Persia. However, even after moving away to their new home, they were always desirous of reclaiming their original homeland back, and led repeated wars against India - it is these wars that got captured in an extra-ordinarily large body of legends in the scriptures of both the communities.


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## al-Hasani

LOL. JUST ONE BIG LOL.

Arabs before the appearance of Islam were either Christians, Jews or believed in ancient Semitic religions (oldest known ones) that were shared in the entire Arab/Semitic world. Better known as Pagan beliefs. Evidence of that are World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Petra in Jordan, Hatra in Iraq and Palmyra in Syria.


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## Kompromat

Whats next ancient hindu ancesstors of Spartans?

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## HK Indian MBT

Aryan Nation said:


> Hinduism is the oldest religion, but I am talking about monotheism. Hinduisms is widely believed to be polytheism which is why I did not include it. Zoroastrianism was the first religion to believe in One god,heaven/hell, judgement day and so on. even the manner which they pray which copied in a sense because in Zoroastrianism when you're praying to god, you have to face towards a source of light, whether it's the sun or fire or whathever. Have you noticed how Muslims face towards something when they pray? I.e Mecca.



Agreed @Aryan Nation 

Did you mean this ?


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## Aryan Nation

HK Indian MBT said:


> Historians and theologians are still so confused even today because they have still not understood the events that led to the birth of Zoroastrianism. Zoroastrianism was born as a revolt against the religious setup in India. The mount on which Zoroaster received divine revelation was, in all probability, in India. He formed a new religion and called his God Asur Mazda, meaning God of Asurs (this later got morphed to Ahur Mazda). He rejected the religion of Devas, and termed their god as evil spirit, whose worshippers would go to hell. This new religion was repellant to Devas, who then expelled the Zoroastrians. This event, when Asurs were expelled out of India, is frequently termed in Indian scriptures as &#8216;Devasur Sangram,' a bloody pre-historic war. Zoroaster led his people to the nearby region of Persia. However, even after moving away to their new home, they were always desirous of reclaiming their original homeland back, and led repeated wars against India - it is these wars that got captured in an extra-ordinarily large body of legends in the scriptures of both the communities.



I am sorry but I disagree with that. Zoroastrianisms is most definitely formed in ancient Persia.. There are many evidence for Zoroastrianisms being formed in Iran in yazd. If you're that interested then visit Iran


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## ghauri05

People used to worship idols in Arabia before Islam, but they were not the same as Hindu Ram, Bhagwan etc. Their idols were like habl,Laat, Manat etc. Very different stories and history from each other.

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## al-Hasani

ghauri05 said:


> People used to worship idols in Arabia before Islam, but they were not the same as Hindu Ram, Bhagwan etc. Their idols were like habl,Laat, Manat etc. Very different stories and history from each other.





al-Hasani said:


> LOL. JUST ONE BIG LOL.
> 
> Arabs before the appearance of Islam were either Christians, Jews or believed in ancient Semitic religions (oldest known ones) that were shared in the entire Arab/Semitic world. Better known as Pagan beliefs. Evidence of that are World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Petra in Jordan, Hatra in Iraq and Palmyra in Syria.



I suggest that the moderators delete this useless and false thread completely and all the trolling posts. Especially by that Farsi, originally nomads on the Kazakh/Central Asian Steppe, that immigrated to the Middle East less than 3000 years ago where they encountered us Semitic people and copied basically everything and became civilized.

That Indian too must have been mentally challenged to write that nonsense. Too much cow """" I assume.

This is a great insult to Islam and Muslims and such false claims must be deleted immediately. This is a majority Muslim forum and such nonsense should not be tolerated.

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## HK Indian MBT

al-Hasani said:


> LOL. JUST ONE BIG LOL.
> 
> Arabs before the appearance of Islam were either Christians, Jews or believed in ancient Semitic religions (oldest known ones) that were shared in the entire Arab/Semitic world. Better known as Pagan beliefs. Evidence of that are World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Petra in Jordan, Hatra in Iraq and Palmyra in Syria.



Respect your Opinion . But i like to point you that Pegan Religion God is Mithra . Please kindly Check these info below. Hope it may shed some light on this topic .. 
Mithraism was the religion that was practised by the ancient Romans (Pagans) before they converted to Christianity. Mithra is an ancient vedic deity who was worshipped along with Varuna. Varuna was worshipped in the ancient vedic times as the lord of heavens, and Mitra was worshipped as the lord of light. The birth day of Mitra was celebrated in those days in Rome as the Sun Festival (called dies natalis solis invicti meaning Birth of Invincible Sun) on the Winter Solstice which was on December 25 in those days. Note that winter solstice is one of the most important sacred days in the vedic hindu calendar too. The celebration is to mark the longer days that arrive in the northern hemisphere after winter solstice.
Mithra was popularly called Sol Invictus in ancient Rome. Mithra&#8217;s worship spread from ancient India to ancient Iran ( Zoroastrianism/Parsis where Varuna and Mithra were worshiped), and from there to ancient Rome.

Ancient Roman carvings of Mithraism &#8211; dated between 300-400 CE
Note the similarity of this with ancient vedic/hindu representation of these deities
The Church wanted to make it easy for the roman pagans to convert into Christianity and also override their existing popular fests and hence declared December 25 as the Birthday of Christ with three major intentions,

First, making it easy for the romans to continue celebrating their festival while being Christians.

Second, to make Sun Festival of Paganism (of ancient Romans) irrelevant!

Third, to make Christian celebrations on different dates than that of Jewish festivals.
Its propaganda of December 25 being the birthday of Christ has worked, as we witness all over the world today!

Theodosius I &#8211; The Person behind it all

Theodosius I (well refer to him only as Theodosius from now), another Christian Roman Emperor of the fourth century declared in 391 CE, Christianity the state religion of Rome, in fact making it the only legitimate religion, and banned all other religions including pagan Mithraism which was pretty popular and was practiced all across Rome then.
In fact through a series of Theodosian decrees in 389 CE he declared that all those Pagan/Mithraic festivals of Rome that had not yet been declared as Christian ones by Church were now to be working days and there would be no official holidays declared to celebrate them. December 25 which was celebrated as the birthday of Mithra escaped this law because it was declared by Church as Christmas! Finally two years later, in 391 CE, Theodosius declared all other religions illegal in Rome.
Destruction of Mithraism/Paganism/Ancient Roman Rituals/Shrines and Temples
Since none of the Mithraic festivals were celebrated and all romans slowly converted to Christianity, the Mithraic temples became ruins. Theodosius had declared no one is to go to the sanctuaries, walk through the temples.. , and those temples were closed and abandoned. Bishop Theophilus of Alexandria immediately applied for permission to demolish such temple sites and cover it with Christian churches. Thus started the era of churches in Rome. Ancient Roman Pagan sites like the gigantic Serapeum of Alexandria and its library were destroyed by the Church led, state supported actions.
The eternal fire in the Temple of Vesta in the Roman Forum was extinguished by Theodosius. The ancient cult of Vestas in Rome, had considered this fire to be sacred and had kept tending this holy fire for centuries. They believed that extinguishing it would result in a great disaster to Rome. One can just imagine the kind of feelings of those ancient Romans that would have been hurt by this action of writing off ones beliefs and practices. The disaster soon followed after the extinguishing of the holy fire, where by the entire Roman empire ended with Theodosus, and was permanently split into two!

The ruins of the Roman Forum where the Temple of Vesta existed

The ruins of the Temple of Vesta where the sacred fire once existed
Contrary to the common belief, Olympic games were actually played in ancient Rome BEFORE the Christian era. After the last Olympic Games in 393, Theodosius even canceled those games!! That was because there were ancient roman rituals that were practiced as a part of these games. So, the Christian Clement of Alexandria declared it illegal saying Olympian games are nothing else than the funeral sacrifices of Pelops! And Theodosius banned these games. (NOTE: Pelops was the king of Olympia to whom offerings were made during the games).
There has been ample archaeological , historical, textual evidence which provide ample evidence about the Mithraism practiced by ancient Romans. In fact, Ernest Renan said in his book The Origins of Christianity that if the growth of Christianity had been arrested by some mortal malady, the world would have been Mithraic
Similarity between Mithraism and Christianity
Franz Cumont was the first scholar who observed the similarity of Christianity with Mithraism. He said that Christianity had borrowed iconographic themes from Mithraism, like the Mithraic images of the Heavens, Earth, Ocean, Sun, Moon, Planets, signs of the Zodiac, Winds, Seasons, and the Elements all are found on Christian sarcophagi, mosaics, and miniatures between the third to the fifth centuries, not before that!
According to Cumont, the Christian story of Moses striking Mount Horeb (Sinai) with his staff to release drinking water was inspired by the earlier Mithraic reference to Mithras shooting arrows at rocks causing fountains to spring up. This is again a pretty common event in the stories of vedic deities in the ancient Indian texts.
Read in detail about the ancient Mithraism here .
If NOT December 25, When?
First of all Christ was not born in 0 CE, for there is nothing called 0 CE, after 1 BCE its directly 1 CE. Next, the Gospels record Jesus being born during the reign of Herod the Great. Herod the great died in the spring of 4 BCE (New Testament History, F.F. Bruce, Anchor Books, p.23), so Jesus was born before 4 BCE.
There is no specific date mentioned anywhere in the ancient scriptures about the actual date of the birth of Christ. However there are ample number of indications about the possible period of the year during which he was born.
First, there is the information about the shepherds keeping their flocks out in the fields on the night on which Christ was born.
Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night (Luke 2:8).
Even today in that region it is a common practice by shepherds to leave their flocks out in the warm summer/spring nights between April to October to feed in the green fields. After the month of October they will not leave their sheeps out in the night, and will lock them inside stables since the winter will be very cold and/or rainy. This itself proves that Jesus was born somewhere between April and October, and NOT in December.
No Shepherds will be out in the cold freezing nights of December!
Also it is said that Mary and Josef returned to Bethlehem because of a census ordered by Augustus. Now no king orders for a census to be carried out in peak winter!
In spite of all these evidences against December being the month of Jesus birth, the church still went ahead with it.
The Roman Catholic writer Mario Righetti admits, to facilitate the acceptance of the faith by the pagan masses, the Church of Rome found it convenient to institute the 25th of December as the feast of the birth of Christ to divert them from the pagan feast, celebrated on the same day in honor of the Invincible Sun Mithras, the conqueror of darkness (Manual of Liturgical History, 1955, Vol. 2, p. 67).
The Encyclopedia Americana says, In the fifth century, the Western Church ordered it [Christ's birth] to be observed forever on the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol [the sun god], as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ&#8217;s birth existed (1944 edition, Christmas).
The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church says, Though speculation as to the time of year of Christ&#8217;s birth dates from the early 3rd century, Clement of Alexandria suggesting the 20th of May, the celebration of the anniversary does not appear to have been general till the later 4th century. The earliest mention of the observance on Dec. 25th is in the Philocalian Calendar, representing Roman practice of the year 336. This date was probably chosen to oppose the feast of the Natalis Solis Invicti [nativity of the unconquerable sun] by the celebration of the birth of the Sun of Righteousness and its observance in the West, seems to have spread from Rome (1983 edition, Oxford University Press, New York, 1983, p. 280, Christmas).
Then we have the information of the new star that was visible on the night when Jesus was born. Some researchers today believe that the new star that was visible on that day (and only on that day) was actually a conjunction of venus and jupiter which made it look like a new bright object in the sky.
Some others believe that the new star was actually a conjunction of venus and the two day old crescent of moon, which made it look like a comet with tail.
Some other biblical experts, based on the astronomical and other circumstantial evidences suggest that Jesus was born in the April month of the year 5 BCE. But they do not mention any specific date, since there is still no solid evidence about the exact date on which Jesus was born.
The purpose of this article is NOT to say don&#8217;t celebrate Christmas, instead is only to educate people, about the historical facts behind the current date of Christmas.

In this pic below you can see Romans worshiping Hindu God Lord Shiva. In form for Shiva Lingam .above Pegan God Mithra Mitra in sanskrit) with Varun . To the left its Moon Goddes . 











https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=479008798857517&set=a.182223581869375.43739.182221931869540&type=1&theater





Am big Fan of this page because it has many new Evidence and History of Man Kind. Many of which we dont want to agree with


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## Omtatsat

Aryan Nation said:


> I am sorry but I disagree with that. Zoroastrianisms is most definitely formed in ancient Persia.. There are many evidence for Zoroastrianisms being formed in Iran in yazd. If you're that interested then visit Iran



But Zend Avestan is very similar to the Vedas. And Gods such as Mitra (Mithra) are common. So there has to be a deep connection. And Ahura is definitely Asura because they change s to H in Persian.


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## BLACKEAGLE

Aryan Nation said:


> They still eat lizards in saudi arabia which is haram.


Goat herders and Arabs servants call names. Go flog yourself left and right, an Arab died 1400 years ago. 


Aryan Nation said:


> Monotheism has nothing to do with arabia. It was invented in Persia around 4000 years ago. The oldest monotheistic religion is Zoroastrian, which created the concept of one divine entitiy (ahora) with a evil entity (ahriman). Zoroastrianism also created the concept of heaven and hell and judgement day.



Poor Iranian, stop making up things.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism


Aryan Nation said:


> The arabians basically plagiarized that and made their own version of it.



Islam is taken from fire worshpers 


Aryan Nation said:


> Arabians have no real history. Old Egypt,Mesopotamia has nothing to do with the afro semites whom are the saudis and Yemenis. Many yemeins and saudis look black like Nigerians. Egyptian are different, syrian and labanese are from levant which are different.
> 
> Thanks for your article. Saudis need to embrace their pre-islamic hindu traditions.



Here is Saudi history:

Nabataeans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia






Your history:






Muslim conquest of Persia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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## HK Indian MBT

al-Hasani said:


> I suggest that the moderators delete this useless and false thread completely and all the trolling posts. Especially by that Farsi, originally nomads on the Kazakh/Central Asian Steppe, that immigrated to the Middle East less than 3000 years ago where they encountered us Semitic people and copied basically everything and became civilized.
> 
> That Indian too must have been mentally challenged to write that nonsense. Too much cow """" I assume.
> 
> This is a great insult to Islam and Muslims and such false claims must be deleted immediately. This is a majority Muslim forum and such nonsense should not be tolerated.


Do you have any proof to claim what you are Claiming ? plz do point out what is wrong Info in this thread ? And why it is inslut to Islam ?


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## indian_foxhound

why cant we talk for once on this topic.... eitther some is running from truth or dont wanna know.. or dont believe or have potential to talk....

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## al-Hasani

HK Indian MBT said:


> Respect your Opinion . But i like to point you that Pegan Religion God is Mithra . Please kindly Check these info below. Hope it may shed some light on this topic ..
> Mithraism was the religion that was practised by the ancient Romans (Pagans) before they converted to Christianity. Mithra is an ancient vedic deity who was worshipped along with Varuna. Varuna was worshipped in the ancient vedic times as the lord of heavens, and Mitra was worshipped as the lord of light. The birth day of Mitra was celebrated in those days in Rome as the Sun Festival (called dies natalis solis invicti meaning Birth of Invincible Sun) on the Winter Solstice which was on December 25 in those days. Note that winter solstice is one of the most important sacred days in the vedic hindu calendar too. The celebration is to mark the longer days that arrive in the northern hemisphere after winter solstice.
> Mithra was popularly called Sol Invictus in ancient Rome. Mithra&#8217;s worship spread from ancient India to ancient Iran ( Zoroastrianism/Parsis where Varuna and Mithra were worshiped), and from there to ancient Rome.
> 
> Ancient Roman carvings of Mithraism &#8211; dated between 300-400 CE
> Note the similarity of this with ancient vedic/hindu representation of these deities
> The Church wanted to make it easy for the roman pagans to convert into Christianity and also override their existing popular fests and hence declared December 25 as the Birthday of Christ with three major intentions,
> 
> First, making it easy for the romans to continue celebrating their festival while being Christians.
> 
> Second, to make Sun Festival of Paganism (of ancient Romans) irrelevant!
> 
> Third, to make Christian celebrations on different dates than that of Jewish festivals.
> Its propaganda of December 25 being the birthday of Christ has worked, as we witness all over the world today!
> 
> Theodosius I &#8211; The Person behind it all
> 
> Theodosius I (well refer to him only as Theodosius from now), another Christian Roman Emperor of the fourth century declared in 391 CE, Christianity the state religion of Rome, in fact making it the only legitimate religion, and banned all other religions including pagan Mithraism which was pretty popular and was practiced all across Rome then.
> In fact through a series of Theodosian decrees in 389 CE he declared that all those Pagan/Mithraic festivals of Rome that had not yet been declared as Christian ones by Church were now to be working days and there would be no official holidays declared to celebrate them. December 25 which was celebrated as the birthday of Mithra escaped this law because it was declared by Church as Christmas! Finally two years later, in 391 CE, Theodosius declared all other religions illegal in Rome.
> Destruction of Mithraism/Paganism/Ancient Roman Rituals/Shrines and Temples
> Since none of the Mithraic festivals were celebrated and all romans slowly converted to Christianity, the Mithraic temples became ruins. Theodosius had declared no one is to go to the sanctuaries, walk through the temples.. , and those temples were closed and abandoned. Bishop Theophilus of Alexandria immediately applied for permission to demolish such temple sites and cover it with Christian churches. Thus started the era of churches in Rome. Ancient Roman Pagan sites like the gigantic Serapeum of Alexandria and its library were destroyed by the Church led, state supported actions.
> The eternal fire in the Temple of Vesta in the Roman Forum was extinguished by Theodosius. The ancient cult of Vestas in Rome, had considered this fire to be sacred and had kept tending this holy fire for centuries. They believed that extinguishing it would result in a great disaster to Rome. One can just imagine the kind of feelings of those ancient Romans that would have been hurt by this action of writing off ones beliefs and practices. The disaster soon followed after the extinguishing of the holy fire, where by the entire Roman empire ended with Theodosus, and was permanently split into two!
> 
> The ruins of the Roman Forum where the Temple of Vesta existed
> 
> The ruins of the Temple of Vesta where the sacred fire once existed
> Contrary to the common belief, Olympic games were actually played in ancient Rome BEFORE the Christian era. After the last Olympic Games in 393, Theodosius even canceled those games!! That was because there were ancient roman rituals that were practiced as a part of these games. So, the Christian Clement of Alexandria declared it illegal saying Olympian games are nothing else than the funeral sacrifices of Pelops! And Theodosius banned these games. (NOTE: Pelops was the king of Olympia to whom offerings were made during the games).
> There has been ample archaeological , historical, textual evidence which provide ample evidence about the Mithraism practiced by ancient Romans. In fact, Ernest Renan said in his book The Origins of Christianity that if the growth of Christianity had been arrested by some mortal malady, the world would have been Mithraic
> Similarity between Mithraism and Christianity
> Franz Cumont was the first scholar who observed the similarity of Christianity with Mithraism. He said that Christianity had borrowed iconographic themes from Mithraism, like the Mithraic images of the Heavens, Earth, Ocean, Sun, Moon, Planets, signs of the Zodiac, Winds, Seasons, and the Elements all are found on Christian sarcophagi, mosaics, and miniatures between the third to the fifth centuries, not before that!
> According to Cumont, the Christian story of Moses striking Mount Horeb (Sinai) with his staff to release drinking water was inspired by the earlier Mithraic reference to Mithras shooting arrows at rocks causing fountains to spring up. This is again a pretty common event in the stories of vedic deities in the ancient Indian texts.
> Read in detail about the ancient Mithraism here .
> If NOT December 25, When?
> First of all Christ was not born in 0 CE, for there is nothing called 0 CE, after 1 BCE its directly 1 CE. Next, the Gospels record Jesus being born during the reign of Herod the Great. Herod the great died in the spring of 4 BCE (New Testament History, F.F. Bruce, Anchor Books, p.23), so Jesus was born before 4 BCE.
> There is no specific date mentioned anywhere in the ancient scriptures about the actual date of the birth of Christ. However there are ample number of indications about the possible period of the year during which he was born.
> First, there is the information about the shepherds keeping their flocks out in the fields on the night on which Christ was born.
> Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields, keeping watch over their flock by night (Luke 2:8).
> Even today in that region it is a common practice by shepherds to leave their flocks out in the warm summer/spring nights between April to October to feed in the green fields. After the month of October they will not leave their sheeps out in the night, and will lock them inside stables since the winter will be very cold and/or rainy. This itself proves that Jesus was born somewhere between April and October, and NOT in December.
> No Shepherds will be out in the cold freezing nights of December!
> Also it is said that Mary and Josef returned to Bethlehem because of a census ordered by Augustus. Now no king orders for a census to be carried out in peak winter!
> In spite of all these evidences against December being the month of Jesus birth, the church still went ahead with it.
> The Roman Catholic writer Mario Righetti admits, to facilitate the acceptance of the faith by the pagan masses, the Church of Rome found it convenient to institute the 25th of December as the feast of the birth of Christ to divert them from the pagan feast, celebrated on the same day in honor of the Invincible Sun Mithras, the conqueror of darkness (Manual of Liturgical History, 1955, Vol. 2, p. 67).
> The Encyclopedia Americana says, In the fifth century, the Western Church ordered it [Christ's birth] to be observed forever on the day of the old Roman feast of the birth of Sol [the sun god], as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ&#8217;s birth existed (1944 edition, Christmas).
> The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church says, Though speculation as to the time of year of Christ&#8217;s birth dates from the early 3rd century, Clement of Alexandria suggesting the 20th of May, the celebration of the anniversary does not appear to have been general till the later 4th century. The earliest mention of the observance on Dec. 25th is in the Philocalian Calendar, representing Roman practice of the year 336. This date was probably chosen to oppose the feast of the Natalis Solis Invicti [nativity of the unconquerable sun] by the celebration of the birth of the Sun of Righteousness and its observance in the West, seems to have spread from Rome (1983 edition, Oxford University Press, New York, 1983, p. 280, Christmas).
> Then we have the information of the new star that was visible on the night when Jesus was born. Some researchers today believe that the new star that was visible on that day (and only on that day) was actually a conjunction of venus and jupiter which made it look like a new bright object in the sky.
> Some others believe that the new star was actually a conjunction of venus and the two day old crescent of moon, which made it look like a comet with tail.
> Some other biblical experts, based on the astronomical and other circumstantial evidences suggest that Jesus was born in the April month of the year 5 BCE. But they do not mention any specific date, since there is still no solid evidence about the exact date on which Jesus was born.
> The purpose of this article is NOT to say don&#8217;t celebrate Christmas, instead is only to educate people, about the historical facts behind the current date of Christmas.
> 
> In this pic below you can see Romans worshiping Hindu God Lord Shiva. In form for Shiva Lingam .above Pegan God Mithra Mitra in sanskrit) with Varun . To the left its Moon Goddes .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=479008798857517&set=a.182223581869375.43739.182221931869540&type=1&theater
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Am big Fan of this page because it has many new Evidence and History of Man Kind. Many of which we dont want to agree with



Look, we Arabs or Semitic people had no contact to Hinduism before Indian workers started to arrive to UAE 40 years ago or so. As I told you people were Christians, Jews or believed in ancient Semitic religions that had nothing to do with hinduism. Better known as Pagans. There is plenty of historical, archaeological etc. evidence for that.

This must be the most moronic thread I am yet to see. Keep your fairytales somewhere else. First time I hear such ludicrous claims. If there was any truth to it it would have been picked up long ago by Western, Middle Eastern etc. scholars but it has not. Wonder why.....

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## JonAsad

Well the arabs used to worship idols before Islam came- so does hindus for centuries- so there must be some link-

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## al-Hasani

JonAsad said:


> Well the arabs used to worship idols before Islam came- so does hindus for centuries- so there must be some link-



No, there was plenty of Christian and even Jewish Kingdoms in the Arab world. Besides people believed in ancient Semitic religions and practices and they have nothing to do with Hinduism. Hinduism was limited to current day Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal etc. It has no historical presence in the Arab world and never had. No archaeological or historical evidence for this.

In fact the first encounter with Hindus aside from ancient Arab merchants going to India through the Arabian Sea was 40 years ago when Indian Hindu workers started to arrive to UAE, KSA and other Arab countries.

This thread and trolling posts is just one big fail. I don't even have words for it. Wonder why it even still exists.

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## Aryan Nation

All the major worlds civilization were made non-arabs. 

Persian history dates back to at least 8000 years. Just go research susa. The worlds oldest writing system has recently been found in Iran's jiroft. Indian civilization the indus vally is very old. Egptians and the levant are not even arabs.

Arabs are afro semites in yemen,saudis arabia. The only culture these yemenis and saudis have is lizard eating. Their culture is called the Bedouin culture. Their arab language was practically made by the Persians as it was the Persian who properly develop arabic grammar. 

These bedouns cannot stand it when truth comes out. They stold Hinduism like they stole monotheism.
This al hasani is another Bedouin afro semites with identity crisis. He probably walks around claiming he is Persian.


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## HK Indian MBT

al-Hasani said:


> Look, we Arabs or Semitic people had no contact to Hinduism before Indian workers started to arrive to UAE 40 years ago or so.


 What are you talking About Check is Pre Islamic Stateof Arabia 



Its still in UK .


> As I told you people were Christians, Jews or believed in ancient Semitic religions that had nothing to do with hinduism. Better known as Pagans. There is plenty of historical, archaeological etc. evidence for that.


 Please provide that evidence . I provided you more than a Explanation WHy it is. With Evidence too . U are affraid to know the truth . Check it urself Research it ur self. And provide ur EVIDENCE . SO I can change my point of view . Am open to all opinion with evidence. 



> This must be the most moronic thread I am yet to see.


 WHY ? 



> Keep your fairytales somewhere else. First time I hear such ludicrous claims. If there was any truth to it it would have been picked up long ago by Western, Middle Eastern etc. scholars but it has not. Wonder why.....


 History cannot be changed. Truth might be hiden but History Cannot be CHANGED .

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## Aryan Nation

If the Mods close this thread then they clearly are one sided.
Let these arab debate the evidence. The fact this al hasani is burning should show you the truth is burning him.

The thread shows very powerful evidence to support the claim.

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## HK Indian MBT

Aryan Nation said:


> All the major worlds civilization were made non-arabs.
> 
> Persian history dates back to at least 8000 years. Just go research susa. The worlds oldest writing system has recently been found in Iran's jiroft. Indian civilization the indus vally is very old. Egptians and the levant are not even arabs.
> 
> Arabs are afro semites in yemen,saudis arabia. The only culture these yemenis and saudis have is lizard eating. Their culture is called the Bedouin culture. Their arab language was practically made by the Persians as it was the Persian who properly develop arabic grammar.
> 
> These bedouns cannot stand it when truth comes out. They stold Hinduism like they stole monotheism.
> This al hasani is another Bedouin afro semites with identity crisis. He probably walks around claiming he is Persian.


 
al hasani Dont even want to debate. But he just want to close the thread. And belive what he belive. People need to question every thing on Religion. We need to have Open mind than Narrow Mind



Aryan Nation said:


> If the Mods close this thread then they clearly are one sided.
> Let these arab debate the evidence. The fact this al hasani is burning should show you the truth is burning him.
> 
> The thread shows very powerful evidence to support the claim.


Am really affraid they wil close this thread . What wrong in debate. Lets put the evidence and debate.

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## Not Sure

HK Indian MBT said:


> *I just told No trolls Please .* If you have Valid Points to make then Do so. You can say what is wrong and Why it is not right



But why???? This is the perfect thread for trolling where even the mods won't say a thing 

But I do agree with what you are trying to say... the Arabians refined Hinduism and that better version is called Islam, right? 

But... how come Prophet Muhammad isn't called Shiva's avatar, when even Buddha is considered Vishnu's 10th avatar...

But... now I am soooo confused... damn it's such a serious thread!

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## al-Hasani

LOL, some original Kazakh Nomad (Farsi) who migrated from the Kazakh/Central Asian Steppe to the Iranian Plateau less than 3000 years ago is having delusions again. Besides being a culturally, linguistically and religiously conquered people since the first time you people encountered us Semitic people and copied everything. 

Yemen is one of the oldest civilizations in the entire world and the first inhabited place outside of Africa. Queen Sheba alone is older than the word Persian, your language and even the first historical inscriptions about anything named Persian, LOL. You were still living on the Central Asian steppe at that time.

Historical, genetic and linguistic data proves that you are a frustrated Farsi with inferiority complexes because Arabs and Semitic people conquered your country and people. Besides Iran is just one big melting pot that has been conquered by outsiders time and time again.








> Haplogroup J-P209[Phylogenetics 1] is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. *Its history since the Iron Age has been tied to the great events and migrations in this area and in particular to the Semitic people.*



Now get lost Fire-Worshipper and deal with your fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's that are ruling you with a iron fist.

Probably another double user that is soon to be banned and wants to get his 2 minutes of fame while writing nonsense and trolling and being obsessed about his conquerors (Arabs).


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## angeldude13

Aryan Nation said:


> Hinduism is the oldest religion, but I am talking about monotheism. Hinduisms is widely believed to be polytheism which is why I did not include it. Zoroastrianism was the first religion to believe in One god,heaven/hell, judgement day and so on. even the manner which they pray which copied in a sense because in Zoroastrianism when you're praying to god, you have to face towards a source of light, whether it's the sun or fire or whathever. Have you noticed how Muslims face towards something when they pray? I.e Mecca.



actually it's like an hybrid.
we have one supreme almighty who does not have any shape and size like the abrahamic religions.

but hinduism believes that god has created everything and god is present every where so we should respect everybody.

ps: modern day hinduism or sanatan dharama is corrupt to it's core


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## indian_foxhound

Aryan Nation said:


> If the Mods close this thread then they clearly are one sided.
> Let these arab debate the evidence. The fact this al hasani is burning should show you the truth is burning him.
> 
> The thread shows very powerful evidence to support the claim.



in deed... lets talks for once n bring out the truth.... why to hide the reality. ...


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## al-Hasani

indian_foxhound said:


> in deed... lets talks for once n bring out the truth.... why to hide the reality. ...



You, don't get it do you Hindu? Too much cow """" for you today?

There is no historical or archaeological evidence of any traces of Hinduism anywhere in the Arab world. On the other hand there is plenty of historical evidence that Arabs and Semitic people had Jewish, Christian etc. kingdoms and before that they believed in ancient Semitic religions (Pagans) whose traces are found all over the Arab world. For instance the ancient World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Petra in Jordan, Hatra in Iraq, Palmyra in Syria etc.

You think that you have invented the wheel by writing nonsense and making unfounded claims that have no historical or archaeological evidence or never been supported by any scholar let alone written about. Just pure madness. But if it makes you happy to live in a fantasy world then go along.

Just know that the Arab world/Semitic world or Islam has nothing to do with your Hinduism or Indians aside from having Indian workers/immigrants living in parts of the Arab world that first came 40 years ago.

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> LOL, some original Kazakh Nomad (Farsi) who migrated from the Kazakh/Central Asian Steppe to the Iranian Plateau less than 3000 years ago is having delusions again. Besides being a culturally, linguistically and religiously conquered people since the first time you people encountered us Semitic people and copied everything.
> 
> Yemen is one of the oldest civilizations in the entire world and the first inhabited place outside of Africa. Queen Sheba alone is older than the word Persian, your language and even the first historical inscriptions about anything named Persian, LOL. You were still living on the Central Asian steppe at that time.
> 
> Historical, genetic and linguistic data proves that you are a frustrated Farsi with inferiority complexes because Arabs and Semitic people conquered your country and people. Besides Iran is just one big melting pot that has been conquered by outsiders time and time again.
> Now get lost Fire-Worshipper and deal with your fake Wannabe-Arab Mullah's that are ruling you with a iron fist.
> 
> Probably another double user that is soon to be banned and wants to get his 2 minutes of fame while writing nonsense and trolling and being obsessed about his conquerors (Arabs).



Its Iraq where the first civilizations started, cradle of civilization they call it for a reason, felix Arabia is a different part, its not mentioned in the first civilization, it came later like Egypts.

Cradle of civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## takeiteasy

al-Hasani said:


> LOL. JUST ONE BIG LOL.
> 
> Arabs before the appearance of Islam were either Christians, Jews or believed in ancient Semitic religions (oldest known ones) that were shared in the entire Arab/Semitic world. Better known as Pagan beliefs. Evidence of that are World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Petra in Jordan, Hatra in Iraq and Palmyra in Syria.



Perhaps they were idol worshippers. No way Christians, perhaps some of them were jews who got converted forcefully later. 

I think, there is some substance to what is posted. 
Arabs were not Christians in majority- never. so, they were idol worshipping people with freedom and women also free to live their life roam the streets free like any human without black dress and extreme laws curbing freedom.

in the past and now in the present also - Arabs may be worshippers of Hindu lord Shiva. the One who wears moon on his head. Mecca may be a temple of idolaters with Shiva as main deity. the characters of Bible and Torah(Abraham and others) perhaps may be a lateral add-on to make a new belief system as we see now. nothing Abrahamic, but the Vedic civilizations decay that we see in Arabia. I read, there is 3 daughter goddesses of Allah(Shiva) as well. 


> The Kaaba&#8217;s presiding deity was the moon-god Hubal, similar to Shiva in that the latter is depicted as carrying the moon on his head. His three goddesses *Al-Lat, Uzza and Manat*, were believed by the Muslims to have taken refuge in the Somnath (Shiva) temple on the Gujarat coast. This is the reason why more than any other, that particular Hindu temple was singled out for destruction upon destruction.


Why Muslims do not offer prayers to"Allah's daughters". el-Lat, el-Uzza, and Manat ? - Yahoo! Answers India

some anonymous ignorants talking sh1t - right? see below. may be some air get in.
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/T3P2OVNVRIM39GT73


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## SOS Brigade

BLACKEAGLE said:


> Goat herders and Arabs servants call names. Go flog yourself left and right, an Arab died 1400 years ago.
> 
> 
> Poor Iranian, stop making up things.
> 
> 
> 
> Islam is taken from fire worshpers
> 
> 
> Here is Saudi history:
> 
> 
> 
> Your history:
> 
> (links removed due to low post count)



Why are you guys so obsessed with something that has happened 1400 years ago?

You guys claim that we Iranians are obsessed with it. I rarely see an Iranian talk about it in this forum yet you and your saudi friends keep on rambling about it on this forum. Great, you guys gloat about your ancestors being plundering savages.

Arguing with you guys is like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

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## indian_foxhound

al-Hasani said:


> You, don't get it do you Hindu? Too much cow """" for you today?
> 
> There is no historical or archaeological evidence of any traces of Hinduism anywhere in the Arab world. On the other hand there is plenty of historical evidence that Arabs and Semitic people had Jewish, Christian etc. kingdoms and before that they believed in ancient Semitic religions (Pagans) whose traces are found all over the Arab world. For instance the ancient World UNESCO Heritage Sites such as Mada'in Saleh in KSA, Petra in Jordan, Hatra in Iraq, Palmyra in Syria etc.
> 
> You think that you have invented the wheel by writing nonsense and making unfounded claims that have no historical or archaeological evidence or never been supported by any scholar let alone written about. Just pure madness. But if it makes you happy to live in a fantasy world then go along.
> 
> Just know that the Arab world/Semitic world or Islam has nothing to do with your Hinduism or Indians aside from having Indian workers/immigrants living in parts of the Arab world that first came 40 years ago.



then give evidence rather than mouth BS


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## Aryan Nation

Isn't it hilarious that some Bedouin is comparing a country that no one has even heard of to Persian culture? 
Persian history and culture is superior to your desert culture in every way imaginable.

From the oldest language formed in jiroft Iran, to the worst firsts superpower to to our scientific,poetry and other contributions to the world. What contribution has yemen made except suicide bombings? Come one kiddo, at least pretend your a greek so then we can talk.

Iran has been a civilization for over 8000 years, the part of Iran I was born in alone has a 5000 year old culture. Posting a fake map created by a lizard eater will not change anything.

Iran has conquered it's neighbored much more times than it's been invaded LOL.

Let someone answer this question. Seriously, who in their right mind would compare bunch lizard eaters to Persians?

Even the so called Islamic golden age was mostly thank to Persian scientists and intellectuals. 
When Persians were creating qanats 3000 years ago, yemenis were hunting lizards..


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## al-Hasani

Yemen is the first inhabited place on earth after Africa. Those are just scientific facts. 

Besides Damascus has been inhabited for 12.000 years. Byblos too. So that is a logical fallacy. Predates Mesopotamia by many thousands of years.

Besides all those areas are Semitic and had nothing to do with India or Hindus so they are irrelevant. Neither did Egypt.

Farsi/Kazakh Nomad: Those cultures have nothing to do with you Persians or Indo-Iranians. You were uncivilized people who lived on the Kazakh Steppe just 3000 years ago with no alphabet or culture. You left nothing. On the other hand Yemen has some of the best kept ancient remains, ancient villages and towns. 

Not my problem that you cannot except genetic and historical evidence. Being a conquered people culturally, linguistically, religiously etc. must have had a hard effect on you.


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## Agnostic_Indian

it's possible that Islam or arabs were influenced by India and vedic traditions, but to claim pre historic arebia was Hindu nation is a conspiracy theory at best.

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## Aryan Nation

al-Hasani said:


> Yemen is the first inhabited place on earth after Africa. Those are just scientific facts.
> 
> Besides Damascus has been inhabited for 12.000 years. Byblos too. So that is a logical fallacy. Predates Mesopotamia by many thousands of years.
> 
> Besides all those areas are Semitic and had nothing to do with India or Hindus so they are irrelevant. Neither did Egypt.



Inhabited by lizards not humans.

This guys is so brainwashed than I don't know if I should cry or laugh.

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## indian_foxhound

KING VIKRAMADITYA INSCRIPTION ON A GOLD DISH HUNG INSIDE THE KAABA
In pure scientific study about the Historical Muhammad raises basic questions concerning the prophet's role as a moral paragon; the sources of Islamic law; and the God-given nature of the Koran. The scientists even doubt the existence of Muhammad. Scientists say that the Koran is a not a product of Muhammad or even of Arabia, but a collection of materials stitched together to meet the needs of a later age. There was no Islam until two or three hundred years after the traditional version at around 830CE. The Arab tribesmen who conquered in the seventh century vast territory were not *******, but were persons who worshiped idols and are scientists call them pagans.
Even though Prophet Muhammad was born in the full light of history the earliest document date about a century and a half after his death. Not only does this long lapse of time cast doubt on their accuracy, but internal evidence strongly suggests the Arabic sources were composed in the context of intense partisan quarrels over the prophet's life. The earliest sources like papyri, inscriptions, and coins on the prophet's life, contradict the standard biography. An inscription and a Greek account fix Muhammad's birth in 552, not 570. Muhammad's career took place not in Mecca but hundreds of kilometers to the north. Yehuda Nevo. The classical Arabic language was developed not in today's Saudi Arabia but in the Levant.
Long before Islam came in to existence, Kaaba, in Mecca in Saudi Arabia was a pilgrimage site. The word Kaaba might have come from the Tamil Language which originated around 1700BC. In Tamil Nadu Kabaalishwaran temple is Lord Shiva&#8217;s temple and Kabaali refers to Lord Shiva. The black stone at Kaaba is held sacred and holy in Islam and is called "Hajre Aswad" from the Sanskrit word Sanghey Ashweta or Non-white stone. The Shiva Lingam is also called Sanghey Ashweta. So what is in Kaaba could be the same what Hindus worship. The pedestal Maqam-E-Ibrahim at the centre of the Kaaba is octagonal in shape. In Hinduism, the pedestal of Brahma the creator is also octagonal in shape. Muslim pilgrims visiting the Kaaba temple go around it seven times. In no other mosque does the circumambulation prevail. Hindus invariably circumambulate or Pradakshina, around their deities. This is yet another proof that the Kaaba shrine is a pre-Islamic. In Shiva temples Hindus always practice circumambulation or Pradakshina. Just as in Hinduism, the custom of circumambulation by muslim pilgrims around the entire Kaaba building seven times shows that the claim that in Islam they don&#8217;t worship stones is not true.

contd..

Allah was one of the deities in Kaaba long before Islam was founded. It might come as a stunning revelation to many that the word &#8216;ALLAH&#8217; itself is Sanskrit. In Sanskrit language Allah, Akka and Amba are synonyms. They signify a goddess or mother. The term &#8216;ALLAH&#8217; forms part of Sanskrit chants invoking goddess Durga, also known as Bhavani, Chandi and Mahishasurmardini. The Islamic word for God is., therefore, not an innovation but the ancient Sanskrit appellation retained and continued by Islam. Allah means mother or goddess and mother goddess.
The King Vikramaditya inscription was found on a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, proving beyond doubt that the Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire. (Ref: page 315 of a volume known as &#8216;Sayar-ul-Okul&#8217; treasured in the Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey). King Vikrama&#8217;s preachers had succeeded in spreading the Vedic Hindu sacred scriptures in Arabia and Arabs were once followers of the Indian Vedic way of life. The annual fair known as OKAJ which used to be held every year around the Kaaba temple in Mecca and the present annual hajj of the Muslims to the Kaaba is of earlier pre-Islamic congregation. . Even to this day ancient Siva emblems can be seen. It is the Shankara (Siva) stone that Muslim pilgrims reverently touch and kiss in the Kaaba.
Muslims shave their head and beard and don special sacred attire that consists of two seamless sheets of white cloth. One is to be worn round the waist and the other over the shoulders. Both these rites are remnants of the old Vedic practice of entering Hindu temples clean and with holy seamless white sheets. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Kaaba has 360 idols. Traditional accounts mention that one of the deities among the 360 destroyed when the place was stormed was that of Saturn; another was of the Moon and yet another was one called Allah. That shows that in the Kaaba the Arabs worshipped the nine planets in pre-Islamic days. In India the practice of &#8216;Navagraha&#8217; puja, that is worship of the nine planets, is still in vogue. Two of these nine are Saturn and Moon. In India the crescent moon is always painted across the forehead of the Siva symbol. Since that symbol was associated with the Siva emblem in Kaaba it came to be grafted on the flag of Islam.
The Hindu Vedic letter in Sanskrit "OM" if seen in a mirror one can see the Arabic numbers 786 and this is the most sacred number for Muslims and copies of the Arabic Koran have the mysterious figure 786 imprinted on them. In their ignorance simply they do not realize that this special number is nothing more than the holiest of Vedic symbols misread and none of the Arabic scholar has been able to determine how they chose 786 as the sacred for them. In short muslims are also going around Siva Lingam at Kaaba, seven times as Hindus go around it seven times.
A few miles away from Mecca are a big signboard which bars the entry of any non-Muslim into the area. This is a reminder of the days when the Kaaba was stormed and captured solely for the newly established faith of Islam. The object in barring entry of non-Muslims was obviously to prevent its recapture. Kaaba is clothed in a black shroud. This custom also originated from the days when it was thought necessary to discourage its recapture by camouflaging it.
Another Hindu tradition associated with the Kaaba is that of the sacred stream Ganga (sacred waters of the Ganges river). According to the Hindu tradition Ganga is also inseparable from the Shiva emblem as the crescent moon. Wherever there is a Siva emblem, Ganga must co-exist. True to that association a sacred fount exists near the Kaaba. Its water is held sacred because it has been traditionally regarded as Ganga since pre-Islamic times (Zam-Zam water).

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## Doritos11

al-Hasani said:


> Yemen is the first inhabited place on earth after Africa. Those are just scientific facts.
> 
> Besides Damascus has been inhabited for 12.000 years. Byblos too. So that is a logical fallacy. Predates Mesopotamia by many thousands of years.
> 
> Besides all those areas are Semitic and had nothing to do with India or Hindus so they are irrelevant. Neither did Egypt.
> 
> Farsi/Kazakh Nomad: Those cultures have nothing to do with you Persians or Indo-Iranians. You were uncivilized people who lived on the Kazakh Steppe just 3000 years ago with no alphabet or culture. You left nothing. On the other hand Yemen has some of the best kept ancient remains, ancient villages and towns.
> 
> Not my problem that you cannot except genetic and historical evidence. Being a conquered people culturally, linguistically, religiously etc. must have had a hard effect on you.



Inhabitation is not civilization, speaking about Inhabtiation Africa surpasses Yemen if we believe in those theories.
Civilizations though started between those rivers.


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## al-Hasani

Agnostic_Indian said:


> it's possible that Islam or arabs were influenced by India and vedic traditions, but to claim pre historic arebia was Hindu nation is a conspiracy theory at best.



Finally a sane person. There is no proof of any Hindu influences either. They don't exist. No archaeological or historical facts support that absurd theory.

Besides Semitic people, including Arabs here, and Hindus never encountered each other to such an extent that they could influence each other.

It is like saying that pre-Islamic Arab world were Buddhists.

Only similar claim I have heard was that the Sumerians could possibly be from Indian since they did not belong to any current people. Nor their language. Anyway they got extinct long ago and there were earlier people and civilizations anyway.


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## Kompromat

This useless thread has run its dogma threshold.

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