# AirBlue Commercial Aircraft Crashes in Islamabad



## Pukhtoon

Breaking News

Pakistan keh niji air line ka jahaz margala hills main gir kar tabah ho gaya

is main 159 passengers and jahaz ka staff tha...

rescue teams ko problems wahan pahunchne main Barish ki wajah se

News are coming !!


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## into the wild

oohh man that is some very tragic news, hope there r survivors there..

there is no news no geo.tv


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## Pukhtoon

into the wild said:


> oohh man that is some very tragic news, hope there r survivors there..
> 
> there is no news no geo.tv



Web site par nahi live tv Channel par hai 

ALLAH kare Tamam log Bach jayein AMEEN

yeh AIR BLUR ka plane tha jo karachi se ISB aa raha tha !!


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## into the wild

Pukhtoon said:


> Web site par nahi live tv Channel par hai
> 
> ALLAH kare Tamam log Bach jayein AMEEN
> 
> yeh AIR BLUR ka plane tha jo karachi se ISB aa raha tha !!



hmm

if its air blue, i would never travel with this airline, how much u pay for it, its like gonna end up dead with a sick airline lol..


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## JonAsad

Updated at: 1031 PST, Wednesday, July 28, 2010

ISLAMABAD: A commercial airbus of a private airline has crashed into Margalla Hills, a mountainous range behind Shah Faisal Mosque, apparently due to rough weather, Geo news reported.

According to preliminary reports, as many as 150 passengers including crewmembers were onboard plane while the smoke is seen rising through heavy clouds from the crash site, police and rescue service officials said.

Eyewitnesses said people noticed airbus flying at very low altitude near Daman-e-Koh this morning and it might have crashed due to rough weather.

The wreckage can be seen in video footages with fierce fire raging and smoke emitting from there despite heavy rains in Islamabad.

Airport sources said the flight took off at 7:50am from Karachi to Islamabad but crashed due to uneven weather a few minutes before landing after loosing connection with control tower.

Islamabad is witnessing heavy showers and thick fog at the moment. Meanwhile rescue teams have been dispatched to area.

Geo Tv


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## JonAsad

*Pakistani plane with 152 aboard crashes*
Deleted*

ISLAMABAD &#8212; A Pakistani passenger plane crashed Wednesday near Islamabad with 152 people on board, aviation officials said. 
Deleted*


"There were 146 passengers and six crewmen on board. We are gathering information. We have no more details," Mubarik Shah, spokesman of the state-run Civil Aviation Authority, told Reuters.

The accident occurred in the Margalla Hills during a rainstorm. Rescue workers were heading to the scene, but the roads were difficult.

NDTV of India reported rescue helicopters reached the crash site and that thick black smoke could be seen rising from the crash site.

Pakistani media reported heavy rain near Islamabad. Thick fog was likely to impede rescue and relief operations, it said.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report. 

Pakistani plane with 152 aboard crashes - World news - South and Central Asia - Pakistan - msnbc.com


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## Peregrine

it was coming from karachi to islamabad not turkey

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## Peregrine

i cant help understand what was that plane doing near margalla hills.


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## Nahraf

It was Airbus 320 AP-BJB belonging to Air Blue. It crashed between Faisal Mosque and Daman-e-Koh.

Pakistan Plane Crash: Airblue Jet Crashes Near Islamabad With 152 On Board

Pakistan Plane Crash: *Airblue Jet Crashes Near Islamabad With 152 On Board*

MUNIR AHMED | 07/28/10 02:13 AM | AP

ISLAMABAD &#8212; A passenger jet carrying 152 people crashed into the hills surrounding Pakistan's capital on Wednesday morning, officials said. Rescuers were trying to reach the scene amid rain and difficult roads.

The cause of the Airblue crash was not immediately clear, said Pervez George, a civil aviation official. He said the plane was flying from Karachi to Islamabad and was trying to land during difficult weather.

"The plane was about to land at the Islamabad airport when it lost contact with the control tower, and later we learned that the plane had crashed," George said.

Guards with the forestry service said they had found some wreckage and seen some bodies, police official Mohammad Saeed said. The army said it was sending special troops to the area to help out along with helicopters.

Pakistani news channels showed what appeared to be wreckage of the plane as a helicopter hovered above the heavily forested hills to assess the situation. Fire was visible and smoke was blowing up from the scene.

Mohammed Usman, an official at the Benazir Bhutto International Airport said dozens of relatives of passengers gathered there were crying and desperate to get information about their loved ones.

Saqlain Altaf told Pakistan's ARY news channel that he was on a family outing in the hills when he saw the plane, looking unsteady in the air.

"The plane had lost balance, and then we saw it going down," he said, adding he heard the crash.

Airblue could not immediately be reached for comment.

Officials at first thought it was a small plane, but later revised that. George said 146 passengers were on the flight along with six crew members.


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## Pukhtoon

Updated at: 1031 PST, Wednesday, July 28, 2010
ISLAMABAD: A commercial airbus of a private airline has crashed into Margalla Hills, a mountainous range behind Shah Faisal Mosque, apparently due to rough weather, Geo news reported.

According to preliminary reports, as many as 159 passengers including crewmembers were onboard plane while the smoke is seen rising through heavy clouds from the crash site, police and rescue service officials said.


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## CONNAN




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## ejaz007

There were 159 people on board. 10 dead bodies have been recovered. There is dense fog in islamabad at the moment. Rescue shall be difficult. Helicopters should be used with care.


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## AliFarooq

This Service is not Available in your Country Sorry

geo showing it live.

Lets pray for survivors.


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## ejaz007

Peregrine said:


> i cant help understand what was that plane doing near margalla hills.



Yes a tricky question. Perhaps plane was waiting for its turn to land and circling the airport. But then at such low altitude.


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## Peregrine

according to media very bad news are coming in that there will be very few survivors & the rescue efforts are being hampered due to the treacherous hills,even the helicopters cannot land there.


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## Break the Silence

Till now 4 injured has been rescued and sent to Polyclinic.

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## su-47

Well some news is coming now. There is a small video, if u follow the link. But it doesn't seem very optimistic. 

*Passenger plane crashes in hills near Pakistan capital*

A plane has crashed in hills north of the Pakistani capital, Islamabad.

Police said it was an Airblue flight to Islamabad from Karachi, with more than 150 people on board.

It crashed in the Margalla Hills to the north of the city, and Pakistani television showed images of smoke and flames on a foggy hillside, with helicopters flying overhead.

A huge rescue effort has been launched. Officials said five bodies had been recovered.

A plane has crashed in hills north of the Pakistani capital, Islamabad.

Police said it was an Airblue flight to Islamabad from Karachi, with more than 150 people on board.

It crashed in the Margalla Hills to the north of the city, and Pakistani television showed images of smoke and flames on a foggy hillside, with helicopters flying overhead.

A huge rescue effort has been launched. Officials said five bodies had been recovered.

The plane, with an estimated 152 people on board, is thought to have left Karachi at 0750 (0350 GMT), and officials said it lost contact with the control tower minutes before landing.

Witness Khadim Hussain told the Reuters news agency: "It was raining. I saw the plane flying very low from the window of my office."

Saqlain Altaf told Pakistan's ARY news channel that he was on a family outing in the hills when he saw the plane, looking unsteady in the air.

"The plane had lost balance, and then we saw it going down," he said, adding he heard the crash.

Mohammed Usman, an official at the Benazir Bhutto International Airport, said dozens of relatives of passengers gathered there were crying and desperate to get information about their loved ones.

The skies in Islamabad have been heavily overcast in the past couple of days.

Initial reports said the flight originated in Turkey, but this has not been confirmed. Later reports suggested it was a commuter flight.

BBC News - Passenger plane crashes in hills near Pakistan capital

May the dead rest in peace.


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## CONNAN

Peregrine said:


> according to media very bad news are coming in that there will be very few survivors & the rescue efforts are being hampered due to the treacherous hills,even the helicopters cannot land there.



atleast they can drop army personal near the crash site


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## DaRk WaVe

I has just banged into Margalla Hills, Ambulances are on the way


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## Peregrine

4 people have been saved so far

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## G W A D A R I

What a sad moment for us. 

Any chance of any survival. fingure crossed.


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## Ahmad

oh god, another tragic plane crash. how the weather was bad? in this season the weather is pretty good.


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## Spring Onion

ejaz007 said:


> Yes a tricky question. Perhaps plane was waiting for its turn to land and circling the airport. But then at such low altitude.




Apparently there was some re-routing due to bad weather but couldn't.


The sister -in-law of one of our dearest was also on the same flight.

RIP to the dead


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## ejaz007

According to latest reports 5 people have been rescued in injured condition.


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## Avatar

Peregrine said:


> 4 people have been saved so far



Thats wonderful. So the crash might not have been that bad. There is hope for more survivors. May the unfortunate ones RIP.

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## ejaz007

Jana said:


> Apparently there was some re-routing due to bad weather but couldn't.
> 
> 
> The sister -in-law of one of our dearest was also on the same flight.
> 
> RIP to the dead




They are finding injured survivors. Lets hope for the best.


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## baker

very sad news..

may god give the courage to the relatives of passengers...


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## Break the Silence

One more survivor! Now total 5 has been rescued.HOPE this nunber wil increase. Body of Pilot also found.


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## Peregrine

one of my brother's friend was suppose to take that flight, he is a serving officer from air force. But it's not certain if he was onbaord.


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## ejaz007

Phone numbers for inquiry regarding the crash are:

009251 9211223 and 0092519211224.

They are sealing the areas going towards the crash site.

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## DaRk WaVe

Geo TV live | Watch Live Geo TV Online | Watch Geo News Live | Geo Pakistan

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## rideto_live

RIP to the dead


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## Peregrine

5 dead bodies have been recovered so far


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## ejaz007

Samaa is giving better coverage:

Watch Samaa TV Live


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## Faizan Qadri

There would be a technical problem in the aircraft: Govt officials


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## DaRk WaVe

40 people injured but saved...

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## Spring Onion

ejaz007 said:


> They are finding injured survivors. Lets hope for the best.



Hope there will be survivors. The Indian media is saying ALL feared dead


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## Faizan Qadri

There were 16 crashes in Airbus A320's history in which 637 people were killed since Jan 2010: Geo TV


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## Devil Soul

*&#1575;&#1606;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1604;&#1729; &#1608; &#1575;&#1606;&#1617;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1740;&#1729; &#1585;&#1575;&#1580;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;
Inna lillahi wa ina Ilahi rajioun
*

Really sad news, May Allah grant the departed souls a place in Jannah and Sabr to the families of plane crash victims. Ameen


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## Peregrine

i have been told that the plane was ready to land when the pilot was asked to take another round as they couldn't accommodate another jet, what an unfortunate decision.


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## ejaz007

According to Geo Tv 12 people missed the flight. Now total number is around 140. Total 152 people were supposed to be on the flight.


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## ice_man

connanxlrc1000 said:


> atleast they can drop army personal near the crash site



this is what they do in india when a plane crashes???

plane crashes are handled by civil services such as police gets deployed but not army! 

Allah inn saab ko Janaat naseeb karaay Ameen

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## Peregrine

Ahmad said:


> oh god, another tragic plane crash. how the weather was bad? in this season the weather is pretty good.


how the weather is good in this season? This is *monsoon*


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## ejaz007

Peregrine said:


> i have been told that the plane was ready to land when the pilot was asked to take another round as they couldn't accommodate another jet, what an unfortunate decision.



I am close to the area (F-11 Markaz) where crash happened but not at the site. Considering the crash site I do wonder why was plane at such low altitude.


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## indushek

A sad day for any human, i pray to god that as many as possible survive and to the unfortunate RIP. May god provide courage in this need of the hour to their relatives.


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## Devil Soul

just now PAF team have rescued a wounded woman....
so total 8 rescued ....


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## rohailmalhi

Any Good News abt survivors...............wht are the stats for now.


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## Devil Soul

4 injured shifted from Crash site to hospital thru helicopters....


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## SurvivoR

A newly wed couple was on board as well who had started their honeymoon trip 

Inna lillah e wa inna ilaehe raje'oon.

May ALLAH grant Jannat for the departed and a full and speedy recovery for the survivors. Ameen


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## MZUBAIR

12 lucky passengers canceled their travel


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## Jazzbot

what's the exact figure of casualties...??
very sad moment for nation, may God help their families..


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## Break the Silence

45 people has been rescued.


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## fawwaxs

Passenger plane crashes in Islamabad; 152 on board 

ISLAMABAD: A passenger plane crashed in the Margalla Hills in Islamabad on Wednesday, reports said.

*At least 152 people were on board the ABQ-202, said Pervez George, a civil aviation official.

The 152 included 146 passengers along with six crew members, George said.

Rescue workers arrived at the scene and managed to pull out four injured passengers from under the rubble.*

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said five injured people were recovered from the site and were rushed to a hospital for treatment.

Meanwhile, Imtiaz Inayat, a senior Islamabad municipal official, told a private television channel up to five bodies had been recovered from the site of the crash.

*&#8220;Several bodies are lying in the area. Four or five bodies have been taken,&#8221; Inayat said.*

*Separately, Imtiaz Elahi, chairman of the Capital Development Authority, said: We have sent fire engines to the site, so far five dead bodies have been recovered.*

&#8220;We are gathering information. We have no more details,&#8221; said Mubarik Shah, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority.

The plane was flying from Karachi to Islamabad and the exact cause of the crash was not immediately clear.

The aircraft had lost contact with the control tower during the crash which occurred amid thick fog and heavy rainfall in Islamabad.

Guards with the forestry service said they had found some wreckage and seen some bodies, police official Mohammad Saeed said. The army said it was sending special troops to the area to help out along with helicopters.

Mohammed Usman, an official at the Benazir Bhutto International Airport said dozens of relatives of passengers gathered there were crying and desperate to get information about their loved ones.

One Saqlain Altaf told a private television news channel that he was on a family outing in the hills when he saw the plane, looking unsteady in the air.

''The plane had lost balance, and then we saw it going down,'' he said, adding he heard the crash.

Thick clouds of smoke were rising from the Margalla Hills.

Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani ordered authorities to control the fire immediately and rescue passengers.

Airblue could not immediately be reached for comment.

The airliner began operations in 2004 with a fleet of Airbus A320 and A321 aircraft, the company said on its website.

The plane that crashed on Wednesday was also built by Airbus, the European planemaker said.

&#8220;We regret to confirm there has been an accident with an Airbus aircraft and we will provide more information when we have more confirmed data available,&#8221; Airbus spokesman Stefan Schaffrath said.

According to the latest available data published by Airbus, Airblue operates six aircraft from its A320 family of short-haul and medium-haul aircraft seating up to 185 passengers.

Forty-five people were killed when a passenger plane belonging to Pakistan International Airlines crashed near Multan in 2006.


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## Devil Soul

they r saying that the pilot requested twice for landing permission , but was told to goto Lahore....

PAK Army & Navy commandos are also on there way to crash site


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## fawwaxs

*The rescuers have retrieved 10 dead bodies and five injured from the wreckage of the airliner at Daman-e-Koh here. *


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## fawwaxs

One hundred and forty-six people including 139 adults, five kids and five crewmembers were onboard whereas 12 are those lucky people who missed the flight.


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## fawwaxs

*"It was raining. I saw the plane flying very low from the window of my office," witness Khadim Hussain said.*


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## Huda

so sad


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## Devil Soul

4 youth parliament members were also travelling on the same plane


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## G W A D A R I

DaRk WaVe said:


> 40 people injured but saved...



AL HAMDULLILAH

Hope to see more alive. (May Almighty rest all the dead brothers and sisiter in peace. Aameen)


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## Mirza Jatt

RIP to the dead..

hope more people come out alive.


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## Faizan Qadri

Peregrine said:


> how the weather is good in this season? This is *monsoon*



Bad weather was not the reason for this crash, it is due to technical problem.


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## Comet

Tragic Indeed.

I don't understand what was the plane doing near Margalla hills. Isn't the airport on the other side of City? 

Also, I lived in F-10 for some time and I don't think this is normal for Airplanes to circle near Margalla Hills in case they have to wait for their turn to land (i never saw any commercial aircraft near Margalla Hills). They Circle mostly in the open, i.e. above Chaklala Scheme and Satellite Town(if landing from the wrong side -mostly in bad weather)in Pindi.


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## Peregrine

Faizan Qadri said:


> Bad weather was not the reason for this crash, it is due to technical problem.


well i was just answering him that the weather here isn't good, as its still raining out there as we speak, about the plane crash the ground control didnot allow the plane to land twice so "Technical fault?" i think not


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## ejaz007

According to latest news 60 survived. Things would be clearer once rescue operation finishes.


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## Spring Onion

ejaz007 said:


> According to Geo Tv 12 people missed the flight. Now total number is around 140. Total 152 people were supposed to be on the flight.



147 were onboard 12 missed the flight

10 bodies have been recovered. 

Army aviation is on the spot doing rescue work


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## fawwaxs

*Four dead bodies have been identified as males and four as females.*


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## Stealth

*152 passenger onboard... dont know exact deaths... these pictures taken by me from my office building in Blue Area. Our building gurads said we have seen this aircraft @ very low fly over blue area before crash...*

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## fawwaxs

Express 24/7 reporter Sabur Ali Syed reports:

The crash site is a national park, and it is presumed that the plane crashed into a steep ridge in the hills.

Eyewitnesses say the plane was flying at an extremely low altitude. They say they have never seen a plane flying on this particular route.

GM Marketing, Airblue Raheel Ahmed says the families of those on the Airblue flight will be transported to the capital via Airblue.


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## Pasban

Very sad news indeed...

May the Almighty give courage to the relatives of passengers...


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## Brotherhood

*Plane crashes in Pakistan's capital, 152 onboard - People's Daily Online*

*Backgrounder: Major deadly air crashes in recent years *




Location of Margalla Hills in Pakistan's capital Islamabad. (Map Source: Google Maps) 

A passenger plane, 152 passengers onboard, crashed into Margalla Hills in Pakistan's capital Islamabad on Wednesday morning but no immediate casualty report has been received, police sources said.

The private airlines flight traveling from Turkey to Islamabad via Karachi, the south port city of Pakistan, lost contact with the control tower of Islamabad airport, local TV channel ARY News reported.

Police and rescue teams have been dispatched to the site of crash.

The plane crashed behind the mountainous range of Margalla Hills, near the Damanekoh resort, according to reports.

Fire is visible from the picnic spot of DamaneKoh and rescue teams are trying to reach the site, local media said.

Eyewitnesses have seen the aircraft taking a very low flight. It was a private aircraft coming from Karachi to Islamabad, local media reported.

It is raining in Islamabad and dense fog might have caused the incident, a source in the Rescue-1122 emergency services told Xinhua on phone. Many flights have been grounded due to bad weather in eastern city of Lahore.

The well guarded hills surrounds northeast of the capital city. Some parts of it are fitted with anti-aircraft guns and many Pakistani troop checkpoints are located on the hills.





(BBC Photo)
Source:Xinhua


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## ejaz007

It has started raining heavily. Rescue efforts shall be affected. Visibility is also low.


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## fawwaxs

40 injured rescued from the crash site, 25 bodies recovered, Pilot aged 65


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## Skywalker

into the wild said:


> hmm
> 
> if its air blue, i would never travel with this airline, how much u pay for it, its like gonna end up dead with a sick airline lol..



You stupid moron people have lost their lives and you are finding funny side of this, I have never seen a biggest looser than you in my life.

Almighty gives strength to the family and decesaed.

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## fawwaxs

Express 24/7: Black box has been recovered from the crash site


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## fawwaxs

geo sob's... stop it with the animation idiots!!!


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## fawwaxs

just seen the Geo animation. Someone needs to be shot in the GEO office.


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## fawwaxs

Bodies and injured being taken to CMH. Road near crash site damaged so only air transport available.


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## Spring Onion

*At least 25 killed in passenger plane crash in Islamabad*


ISLAMABAD: Rescue workers have recovered the dead bodies of at least 25 people from the wreckage of an Airblue passenger plane which crashed in the Margalla Hills in Islamabad on Wednesday, an official said.



So far, rescue people have recovered at least 25 dead bodies, Ramzan Sajid, a spokesman for Islamabad's Capital Development Authority (CDA), told Reuters.



At least 157 people were on board the ABQ-202, a civil aviation official said.



The 157 included 151 passengers and six crew members, the official said. To view the passenger list, click here.



Rescue workers arrived at the scene and managed to pull out four injured passengers from under the rubble.



Interior Minister Rehman Malik said five injured people were recovered from the site and were rushed to a hospital for treatment.



Earlier, Imtiaz Inayat, a senior Islamabad municipal official, told a private television channel that up to five bodies had been recovered from the site of the crash.



Several bodies are lying in the area. Four or five bodies have been taken, Inayat said.



Separately, Imtiaz Elahi, chairman of the Capital Development Authority, said: We have sent fire engines to the site, so far five dead bodies have been recovered.



The total number of survivors was not immediately known, another local administration official said.



Rescue teams have reached the area. They are fully equipped. They are scanning the entire area. Those wounded or survivors are being provided assistance and arrangements have been made to take them to hospitals.



We are trying to get details about the passengers. It's a big tragedy. It's really a big tragedy, he said.



Mubarik Shah, a spokesman for the Civil Aviation Authority, said: We are gathering information. We have no more details.



The plane was flying from Karachi to Islamabad and the exact cause of the crash was not immediately clear.



The aircraft had lost contact with the control tower during the crash which occurred amid thick fog and heavy rainfall in Islamabad.



Guards with the forestry service said they had found some wreckage and seen some bodies, police official Mohammad Saeed said. The army said it was sending special troops to the area to help out along with helicopters.



At the Benazir Bhutto International Airport, hundreds of friends and relatives of those on board the flight swarmed ticket counters desperately seeking information. A large cluster of people also surrounded the list of passengers on the flight, which was posted near the Airblue ticket counter.



''Nobody is guiding anyone. People are running from one counter to another,'' said Arshad Mahmood, whose brother, Maulana Nawabul Hasan, a prayer leader in a town near Islamabad, was on the flight.



One Saqlain Altaf told a private television news channel that he was on a family outing in the hills when he saw the plane, looking unsteady in the air.



''The plane had lost balance, and then we saw it going down,'' he said, adding he heard the crash.



Thick clouds of smoke were rising from the Margalla Hills.



Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani ordered authorities to control the fire immediately and rescue passengers.



Raheel Ahmed, a spokesman for Airblue, said an investigation would be launched, but that for now the focus was to find survivors. The plane was no more than eight years old, and it had no known technical issues, Ahmed said. He added that to his knowledge, the pilots had not sent any emergency signals.



Airblue flies within Pakistan as well as internationally to the United Arab Emirates, Oman and the United Kingdom.



The only previous recorded accident for Airblue, a carrier that began flying in 2004, was a tailstrike in May 2008 at Quetta airport by one of the airline's Airbus 321 jets.



There were no casualties and damage was minimal, according to the US-based Aviation Safety Network.

The airliner began operations in 2004 with a fleet of Airbus A320 and A321 aircraft, the company said on its website.



The plane that crashed on Wednesday was also built by Airbus, the European planemaker said.



We regret to confirm there has been an accident with an Airbus aircraft and we will provide more information when we have more confirmed data available, Airbus spokesman Stefan Schaffrath said.



According to the latest available data published by Airbus, Airblue operates six aircraft from its A320 family of short-haul and medium-haul aircraft seating up to 185 passengers.



Forty-five people were killed when a passenger plane belonging to Pakistan International Airlines crashed near Multan in 2006.


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## Peregrine

why to CMH? Its too far from the crash site


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## mehru

RIP to the dead.


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## fawwaxs

Has Air Blue released the passenger names list yet??


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## Comet

Peregrine said:


> why to CMH? Its too far from the crash site



Yes! PIMS would have been a better place. Although, I am not sure if PIMS has Helipad.


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## fawwaxs

The plane tried to land twice but crashed the third time (ARY News)


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## TaimiKhan

fawwaxs said:


> Has Air Blue released the passenger names list yet??



DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Passenger List of ABQ-202

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## AliFarooq




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## fawwaxs

People on board from Karachi-their relatives (1 from a family) being offered air travel to Islamabad. Contact CMC at 051-9211223-4


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## Spring Onion

fawwaxs said:


> Has Air Blue released the passenger names list yet??




*
The following are the names of the passengers who were on board the flight.
*


PYAR ALI
IMTIAZ ALI KURD
SYEED SHAAN-E-HUSSAIN NAQVI
PREM CHAND
HASSAN JAVED KHAN
SYED ARSALAN AHMED
MOHD. TUFAIL
ABDUL REHMAN
MOHD. FAISAL RASHEED
MOHD. OVAIS
HUSSAIN ALAM
GHULAM ABBAS
NAVEED ILYAS
MOHD. ALI MUGHAL
MOHD AFTAB
SHIREEN LODHI
MOHD. NAWAB HASSAN
ASIM ARAIN
ALI SHERAZI
MOHD. BASHIR
ZAHID HABIBI
DR.MIRKO CVJFTICANIN
ASIA BEGUM
MOHD. UMAIR KHAN
HAJI REHMAT GUL
MOHD. SAQIB RAFIQ SHAIKH
MISHA DAWOOD
ALI ASGHAR RAJAB ALI
RASHIDA TYEB KHAN
MURTAZA TYED KHAN
MALIK MOHD. YOUSUF
NABEEL LUTFI
MANZOOR NASIR
SALEEM AHMED
ROSIE AHMED
SALAUDDIN SYED
HAMID JAVED
MOHD. YOUSUF
ATA RAJA
SALMAN KHAN BIJRANI
MEHRAN KHAN BIJRANI
ANWAR BIBI
GULZAR BIBI
TARIQ SUBHAN
ABDUL GHAFFAR
IRFAN IRFAN
MOHD. SULTAN
MOHD. YASEEN
GAYABA KHAN
MANZOOR AHMED
MASOOD SALAM
SYED AZAM
OJAM KHAN
JANNAT GUL
ZAINTUN BIBI
WAHEED UR REHMAN
MOHD. FEROZE
DR. SURESH
MOHD. ASAD
AMIR SIDDIQUI
MONA DHONKI
MEHLEE DHONKI
AMIR DHONKI
AFSHAN DHONKI
MASOOD KAYANI
ZAFAR SALEEM
ABDUL GHANI
ADNAN QAYOOM
ABBAS HAIDER
OSAMA GHAFOOR
MOHD. ZAMEEN
ANDALEEB JUNAID
ABDUL RAHEEM
MOHD. ZAID RAUF
ANWAR BEGUM
NUSRAT BEGUM
ALI SHAH
KAMRAN SHAH
ABDUL QAYUM
MAQSOOD AHMED
ABDUL GHAFFAR
MOHD. IQBAL
KHAN ZAMAN
A M NASIR
SYEDA RABAB ZEHRA NAQVI
OVAIS BIN LAIQ
BILAL JAMAEE
SYED ASHIQ HUSSAIN SHAH
SAMATAR BASHIR
AMER KHATTAQ
HASSAN NASEEM
ATIF RASHEED
KANEZE AKHTHAR
SHAMSUL HAQ
KHADIM HUSSAIN REHMAT KHAN
MIRZA TAHIR BAIG
MOHD IRFAN
MALIK GHULAM HUSSAIN
JAVERIA FARAZ
MOHD AJMAL KHAN
SIKANDER HAYAT AWAN
MUBASHIR SHAHID
TARIQ SHAHID
MR. KAMRAN
MR. SALEEM
JAVAID IQBAL
PERVEZ AKHTHAR
RAHEEM KHAN RAJPUT
IKHLAAS KHAN
ASWAH GUL
ANSAR ABBAS
ATHAR IFTIKHAR
HAJI GUL MEHBOOB
FAROOQ KHAN
SYED JAWAD ALI
AYESHA AMIR
ALIZA AMIR
ABU BAQR IZHAR
SAPNA MUNAWAR
FAROOQ NADEEM
MOHD. ASIF

HASSAN ADEEL
ABID MEHMOOD
MALIK MUHAMMAD AJMAL
OWAIS KHAN
ROMAISA KHAN
MUHAMMAD SALEEM
MUJAHID REHMAN
AESAR ALI
TASLEEM KAUSAR
MUHAMMAD IBRAHIM
GHULAM RASOOL
MRS SHAHEEN
MRS SABIRA
MRS GULSHAD
MR RAWAHA
JEHANGIR KHAN
ALI AKBER
MUHAMMAD RAFIQUE
SYED HAIDER ZULFIQAR SHAH
MUHAMMAD SALEEM AKHTAR
RIZWAN GHANI KHAN
AMBER RIZWAN
MUHAMMAD ZAWAR KHAN
ARBAAZ KHAN
MUSKAN RIZWAN
FARID AHMED ALVI
SHAMAS US REHMAN ALVI
KHIZER PERVAIZ
KIRAN ALVI
MUHAMMAD KHALID
ASIF SHEHZAD
AYESHA ASIF
SYED AINULLAH AGHA
AFAZAL MASOOD
SYED ATTAULLAH HASHMI
WAHEED SHAIKH
NAVAID CHAUDHRY


----------



## fawwaxs

would someone please put up a list of survivors - what is out news media Doing ? show your efficiency now !


----------



## SQ8

Somebody should call up geo and spit out a few paragraphs of ****** language for their animation. CNN, BBC.. all are criticizing them for showing such a pathetic view.


----------



## fawwaxs

Phone numbers for inquiry regarding the crash are:

Local: 051-9211223 &#8211; 051-9211224.

International: 009251 9211223 &#8211; 0092519211224.


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## mehru

In the next 24 hours, Heavy rainfall is expected at crash site. Let's hope they wrap up the rescue operation before that.


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## mehru

santro said:


> Somebody should call up geo and spit out a few paragraphs of ****** language for their animation. CNN, BBC.. all are criticizing them for showing such a pathetic view.



These idiots even show animation of bomb blasts as we really wanted to see that.


----------



## fawwaxs

The Airblue website now has a message about the crash - Airblue

Airblue, with great sadness, announces the loss of flight ED 202 inbound from Karachi to Islamabad. The flight crashed during poor weather and thick fog.

We regret the loss of life and are investigating the exact circumstances of this tragedy.
This will be presented as soon as possible.

Our hearts go out to the families and loved ones of the passengers and crew.
All information regarding the passengers on the flight may be obtained at
the following dedicated number: 111 247 258

Reactions: Like Like:
2


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## Mujahid

&#1575;&#1606;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1604;&#1729; &#1608; &#1575;&#1606;&#1617;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1740;&#1729; &#1585;&#1575;&#1580;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;


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## Faizan Qadri

Interior Minister Rahman Malik created an investigating committee for the crash.


----------



## pak-marine

May the dead RIP and hope more people make it out alive InshAllah


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## fawwaxs

My Sympathies and great sorrow for All Family Members, Relative and Friend of the plane crash victims &#8211; passengers (adult &#8211; kids) and crew members.

May Allah grant the departed souls a place in Jannah and Sabar to the families of plane crash victims. Ameen


----------



## Kompromat




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## fawwaxs

*8 survivals found. Express News*


----------



## SummerWine

Peregrine said:


> i cant help understand what was that plane doing near margalla hills.



planes landing at Islamabad International usually approach from south, but if the wind doesnt favour, planes are asked to land from north. This is what might have happened during this tragic incident, plane was descending from south and while at around 1500 ft decided to go round.......while going round it had o circle above margalla hills......and during that circling, it would have gone down........why did it go down can only be answered with the help of black box...........exactly when the plane was crashing...i was so so near to margalla hills, but i can not recall hearing any special or desastorous sounds.....one person in my house heard huge jet engine sound trying to accelerate........

smoke is still seen rising from the site.....helicopters ae held back as they were fuming the fire....unfortunately our nation is not equipped to dael with these tragic accidents in a professional manner...

lets hope to have survivors

May God Forgive us ALL


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## ejaz007

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------


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## BATMAN

Faizan Qadri said:


> Bad weather was not the reason for this crash, it is due to technical problem.


No it was no technical fault... flight flew from Karachi and was ready to land.... and was denied landing at Islamabad airport, while another PIA flight immediately followed which was allowed landing.
The only technical issue i see is that Rawalpindi airport is not suitable to handel the heavy air traffic and does not meet the quality requirements of a safe airport.
It was criminal on part of govt. to delay the construction of Gandhara airport.
It is sabotage or negligence on part of CAA... thanks to the political hiring another institute showing signs of crumbling.
I have said it once before that Pakistan airports look look like political office of PPP, every where we have posters of zardari family and lot of employees hanging free wearing PPP badges.
Couple of months back i objected an immigraiton officer for wearing PPP badge and he reacted very rudely.



Faizan Qadri said:


> Interior Minister Rahman Malik created an investigating committee for the crash.


He him self should be the prime suspect.
Investigation should be lead by UN team.


----------



## Ahmad

in the guardian they say around 25 dead. this is so sad, hope there are more survivors.


----------



## ejaz007

*Pilot fatigue may be the reason behind crash: PALPA * 
Upadated on: 28 Jul 10 02:43 PM 


ISLAMABAD: The incident may be attributed to the pilots fatigue, said President PALPA Captain Sohail Baloch. The pilot may be suffering from accumulated fatigue because they are not given adequate leaves.

At least 45 people were killed and several injured when a passenger plane, carrying 152 passengers crashed having collided with the Margalla Hills near Pir Sohawa, a mountainous range behind Shah Faisal Mosque, SAMAA reported Wednesday.

Captain Sohail Baloch said that the route was not a no-fly zone, as speculated. The plane exceeded the safety distance due to bad weather. This decision was, again, taken by the pilot who couldn't determine appropriate landing route. The ISL system's access ends a little before Islamabad and the pilot had to resort to visual queues for landing. 

There could be other reasons to the crash, which will only be uncovered after the investigation is complete.

Airport sources said the Air Blue flight ED-202 took off at 7:50am from Karachi to Islamabad and crashed at 9:50 a.m. It lost communication with the control tower due to bad weather.

"So far, rescue people have recovered at least 45 dead bodies," said Civil Development Authority (CDA) officials.

"Five people have been rescued but they are injured," said Federal Minister Rehman Malik.

Deceased and injured have been shifted to PIMS hospital, said rescue sources.

Rehman Malik said that one part of the plane fell onto the mountain and the other into an abyss, where the rescue team is trying to go through helicopters. 

"The operation will take about 3 hours to complete," said Malik.

The cause of the incident is not known so far, said Saeed Hasan spokesperson Airblue. None of the scheduled flights have been cancelled.

PIA spokesperson asked the passengers' relatives to reach Karachi Airport by 4:00 p.m.

"The seats to the relatives will be provided on the basis of availability," said PIA spokesperson.

Eyewitnesses said people noticed airbus flying at very low altitude near Daman-e-Koh this morning and have crashed due to rough weather.

"There were 146 passengers and six crewmen on board, we are gathering investigation of the incident", said Civil Aviation spokesman Pervez George.

Thick clouds of smoke were witnessed rising from the Margalla Hills.

An emergency has been imposed in all hospitals of Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has set up a six-member investigative team, headed by Air Commodore Khwaja Majeed to probe the incident. 

President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani ordered a rescue operation and expressed grief over this tragic incident.

The Cabinet has announced one-day mourning over the incident.

The passengers' relatives can call on the given numbers for any query: 021-99071385, 051-903132.

AGENCIES ADD: A commercial passenger plane with 152 people on board crashed in bad weather in hills near Islamabad on Wednesday, and police said they expected few had survived.

At least 20 people were confirmed dead when the Airbus 321, belonging to private airline Airblue, crashed in heavy rain while flying from Karachi. Rescue efforts are continuing, officials said.

Five survivors were pulled from the wreckage and sent to nearby hospitals, said Imtiaz Elahi, chairman of the state-run Capital Development Authority, a municipal body.

Rescuers said they had to dig through the rubble with their bare hands, with fire and thick smoke hampering their work. The crash site, on a steep and heavily wooded hill, has no roads, limiting access to pedestrians and aircraft.

"Dead bodies are lying all around and very few might have survived in the accident," Bin Yameen, a senior police official of Islamabad said.

"Bodies are being lifted through helicopters."

The plane lost contact with the control room of the Islamabad International Airport at 0443 GMT. It was carrying 146 passengers and six crew members.

Bin Yameen said a woman was alive at the scene and crying for help.

"I could hear her cries from the woods. Rescue workers are trying to save her," he told Reuters from the scene of the crash.

A thick blanket of cloud and smoke caused by fire could be seen rising from the crash site. A helicopter hovered overhead and flames licked at trees and what appeared to be wreckage from the plane, television pictures showed.

"We are removing wreckage with our hands. There is fire. There's smoke, which has made the rescue job very difficult," Bin Yameen said.

The crash site is on the Margalla Hills facing Islamabad, about 300 meters (yards) up the side of the hills. Smoke was visible from some districts of the city, and crowds of onlookers lined the streets pointing and watching the smoke rise from the green hills.

"It was raining. I saw the plane flying very low from the window of my office," witness Khadim Hussain said.

Rescue workers were making their way on foot to the crash site with some difficulty. A young man was weeping and being embraced by another man.

The military said it had sent three helicopters to the site and troops had also been moved there.

Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani ordered authorities to control the fire immediately and rescue passengers.

*HEAVY RAINS*

There had been heavy monsoon rains in the area for at least a couple of days.

Airblue began operations in 2004 with a fleet of Airbus A320 and A321 aircraft.

Spokesman Raheel Ahmed said this was the first crash for the airline.

Airbus confirmed one of its planes was involved in the Airblue crash.

"We regret to confirm there has been an accident with an Airbus aircraft and we will provide more information when we have more confirmed data available," said Airbus spokesman Stefan Schaffrath.

At Islamabad's international airport, passengers in the departure lounge scanned the television screens for news.

"I'm not surprised something like this has happened," said Ahmed Fairuz, a passenger awaiting departure. "The weather is just too bad for flying."

Aviation industry sources in Europe said the aircraft was leased from International Lease Finance Corp, the leasing unit of U.S. insurance giant AIG

Los Angeles-based ILFC was not available for comment and there was no immediate confirmation of these details.

The A321 is the largest of the A320 family of single-aisle jets produced by EADS subsidiary Airbus. This particular type of aircraft, which can seat up to 185 passengers, has been in service since 1994.

Forty-five people were killed when a passenger plane belonging to Pakistan International Airlines crashed near the central city of Multan in 2006. SAMAA/AGENCIES


.:: SAMAA - Pilot fatigue may be the reason behind crash: PALPA


----------



## Spring Onion

PALPA sec gen was speaking bull **** saying the pilot may have fatigues as he was a very poise and nimazy

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

45 dead bodies recovered


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## ejaz007

Passenger List:


----------



## hembo

into the wild said:


> hmm
> 
> if its air blue, i would never travel with this airline, how much u pay for it, its like gonna end up dead with a sick airline lol..



Your are a sick moron who can manages to crack joke when tragedies have struck so many household.. 

RIP to the departed and sppedy recovery to the injured one.


----------



## Ahmad

Jana said:


> PALPA sec gen was speaking bull **** saying the pilot may have fatigues as he was a very poise and nimazy
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------
> 
> 45 dead bodies recovered



easy to put all the blame on the dead pilot, those who are really responsible for this tragedy or if there is any neglegence ,will get away with it.


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## BATMAN

> while going round it had o circle above margalla hills......and during that circling, it would have gone down........why did it go down can only be answered with the help of black box.



No... i have lived in Rawalpindi and had never seen commercial jets hovering over margala hills.
I have seen mirrages flying over margala hills on 23rd march but not boeings.
Rawalpindi city is in the middle of airport and margala hills, people with high roofs have clear vision of margal hills and all planes taking off and landing come down close enough.

Location of the airport is totally unsuitable, in addition ot its facilites.


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## s90

Geo is not showing tht stupid animation anymore i guess.


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## mehru

Black box of crashed plane in Islamabad found


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## TaimiKhan

I spent 5 years in Islamabad, my office was in Blue Area and home in F-10 sector, never ever saw commercial planes coming in over Margalla Hills and trying to land at the airport, even would see rarely planes flying over Islamabad. 

This is not a normal procedure.


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## SummerWine

BATMAN said:


> No... i have lived in Rawalpindi and had never seen commercial jets hovering over margala hills.
> I have seen mirrages flying over margala hills on 23rd march but not boeings.
> Rawalpindi city is in the middle of airport and margala hills, people with high roofs have clear vision of margal hills and all planes taking off and landing come down close enough.
> 
> Location of the airport is totally unsuitable, in addition ot its facilites.



Agreed...i have been in this city and in Hills all my life and haev rarely seen planed circling above margallas...........but the point is when the plane was asked or decided to go round..........it went circling over hills........well not over cos if it was over the hills then it would have survied .......why it was circling over the hills , maybe an instrument failure ....black box would have the answer


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## Spring Onion

80 dead bodies recovered.

Its bad. No big machinery can reach there no firebrigade everything has to be done manually.

Its heavy raining too


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## Masterchief

let us hope there are more survivors.


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## Imran Khan

&#1573;&#1606;&#1575; &#1604;&#1604;&#1607; &#1608;&#1573;&#1606;&#1575; &#1573;&#1604;&#1610;&#1600;&#1600;&#1600;&#1600;&#1600;&#1600;&#1600;&#1607; &#1605;&#1606; &#1575;&#1604;&#1585;&#1575;&#1580;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;


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## Xeric

God! God! God!


----------



## XYON

TaimiKhan said:


> I spent 5 years in Islamabad, my office was in Blue Area and home in F-10 sector, never ever saw commercial planes coming in over Margalla Hills and trying to land at the airport, even would see rarely planes flying over Islamabad.
> 
> This is not a normal procedure.



I have lived in Islamabad for the last 30 years. In 1983 I was driving at night on the road in front of Dr. A Q Khan's house going towards the E-7 fountain. All of a sudden I saw very bright lights right in front of me which nearly disoriented me for a while. These lights were from a Fokker Aircraft that was somehow flying very low and in parallel to the Margallah Hills going towards the Faisal Mosque. The aircraft was flying so low that I almost thought it was some sort of a truck coming my way. Similarly and in the 80's again, a PIA pilot mistook Islamabad highway for the runway of Islamabad Airport before pulling up at the last minute. Unfortunately, if a pilot uses visual cues to make a landing approach at Islamabad airport and that too from the Margallah Hills side, such incidents are bound to happen. Also the height of Margallah hills in relation to the airport at Pindi is very deceptive and a little fatigue or pilot error could easily end up in such consequences. 

Having said the above, I hope they find more survivors in the said crash and my deepest condolence to the bereaved families on the irreparable loss of their near and dear ones in this tragic accident. We as a nation are equally participants in their hour of mourning.

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## Areesh

santro said:


> Somebody should call up geo and spit out a few paragraphs of ****** language for their animation. CNN, BBC.. all are criticizing them for showing such a pathetic view.



What is wrong with the GEO's animation. I am in office and didn't watch that animation.


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## BATMAN

Does any one knows the background of airblue pilots?
Are those also hired on basis of relatioships ignoring better available choices!!!


----------



## Xeric

What's thsi ANO-3 and ANO-4 crap...??!!


----------



## GUNNER

ISLAMABAD, July 28, 2010 (AFP) - A Pakistani airliner carrying 150 people crashed in a ball of flames Wednesday into densely wooded hills above Islamabad amid heavy rain and poor visibility, leaving no sign of survivors.

Rescue officials said pieces of charred flesh and body parts were littered around the smouldering wreckage, partially buried on a remote hillside in the deadliest crash involving a Pakistani passenger jet in 18 years.

Private airline Airblue's flight 202 from Karachi was coming into land at Islamabad's Benazir Bhutto International airport when witnesses saw a jet lying at unusually low altitude and then heard a loud boom.
The plane disintegrated into a gorge between two hills, enveloped in cloud and some distance from the road, severely hampering rescue efforts and limiting visibility for helicopters hovering overhead, said an AFP correspondent.

"I saw a big ball of smoke and fire everywhere with big pieces of aircraft rolling down the hill," said police official Haji Taj Gul.

"The plane was flying very low. Then we heard a loud noise," said Wajih-ur Rehman, a resident of the smart E-7 neighbourhood in the Margalla foothills.

The civil aviation authority said all possible causes would be 
investigated, including terrorism and bad weather, although officials gave no indication that an attack might have been to blame.

"In the last conversation with the control tower, the pilot had been given landing clearance and the plane was proceeding normally for landing before it crashed into the hills," said Riaz-ul-Haq, the authority's deputy director.

"The investigation teams will probe every possible reason behind the crash ranging from the bad weather to terrorism."

Police said rescue workers had recovered the remains of more than 100 people from the wreckage.

Islamabad administration chief Imtiaz Inayat said there had been no 
confirmed reports of any survivors, after earlier suggestions that at least five passengers might have survived.

Rescue official Arshad Javed told AFP: "All we could see were charred hands or feet. I collected two heads, two legs and two hands in a bag.
"No survivor was found. We shouted if anyone was there alive, but heard no voice," he said.

"The wreckage of the plane is buried under the debris. First machines have to be deployed there to remove debris of the hill and then we can reach to pull out bodies or survivors -- if any."

The government declared a day of national mourning and called off a cabinet meeting as Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani expressed his grief over the "tragic incident" and offered prayers for the dead.

Anguished families were in tears after hearing of the disaster while 
waiting to meet their relatives at the Islamabad arrivals terminal.
"We cannot explain our agony, we don't know if he is alive," said Bilal 
Haider, who had come to collect his younger brother Abbas returning from a trip to Karachi for a job interview.

Airblue spokesman Raheel Ahmed told AFP the Airbus 321 took off from Karachi before 8:00 am (0300 GMT) with 144 passengers and six crew members on board, and speculated that the bad weather could have been at fault. "There was no technical fault in the plane when it took off for Islamabad. The plane was thoroughly checked," he said. 

In a statement, Airbus said the single-aisle plane was a relatively young 10 years in age, and the European company offered its full assistance to Pakistani investigators.

Ambulances queued along the nearest road and anxious crowds gathered on the approach to the Margalla Hills to await news.
"It's a big tragedy. It's really a big tragedy," Interior Minister Rehman 
Malik told Express TV. State television read out the passenger list. No 
foreigners were believed to be among the dead.

Airblue is one of Pakistan's most respected airlines. It has been operating only since 2004, using new Airbus A320 and A321 aircraft on domestic routes and international services to Dubai, Sharjah, Abu Dhabi, Muscat and Manchester.

Pakistan enjoys a relatively good air safety record.

The most recent fatal commercial crash was a Pakistan International 
Airlines Fokker F27 that came down in July 2006, killing 45 people on takeoff from the central city of Multan, bound for Lahore.

The deadliest civilian plane crash involving a Pakistani jet was a PIA 
Airbus A300 that crashed into a cloud-covered hillside on its approach to the Nepalese capital Kathmandu, killing 167 people in September 1992.


----------



## Xeric

Another _shosha_ from Geo (and they may be right);

International flight safety requires a safety standard of ANO-3 (Air Navigation Order) whereas, PIA and CAA both were able to pass a new ANO namely ANO-4, which has a lower safety rating as compared to ANO-3.

Example, under ANO-3 a pilot, for instance flying from the US to Pakistan, cannot be asked to fly back to London after a few hours until his 24 hour rest is not catered for, BUT under the new ANO-4 pilots can be (and should) fly again even after 4 hours of their landing after a long flight!!


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## fawwaxs

Tragedy at the Margalla Hills in Islamabad


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## fawwaxs

*More than 100 killed in passenger plane crash in Islamabad. The total number of survivors was not immediately known.. local administration official *


----------



## Jet Li

*Official: No survivors from Pakistan jet crash*

Plane carrying 152 people crashes while trying to land in rainstorm

NBC, msnbc.com and news services 
*updated 1 minute ago* 





Rescue workers look for survivors at the site of a passenger plane crash near Islamabad, Pakistan, on Wednesday

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan &#8212; All 152 people aboard a Pakistani jet died when the passenger plane crashed into hills as it tried to land on Wednesday, an official told NBC News. 

The head of Pakistan's civil defense body told NBC News that no one travelling aboard the Airblue flight had survived.

Earlier reports suggested that up to five survivors had been pulled from the wreckage after the plane smashed into heavily wooded hillside during a rainstorm. There was no explanation for the discrepancy, but reports often differ in the immediate aftermath of such events.

"Dead bodies are lying all around," Bin Yameen, a senior Islamabad police official told Reuters.

Rescuers said they had to dig through the debris with their bare hands, with flames and thick smoke hampering their work. There are no roads near the crash site, limiting access to rescue workers. 

NBC News reported that muddy paths through the thickly wooded and foggy area were making it difficult for doctors and paramedics to reach the site by foot. 

The cause of the crash of flight ED202 was not immediately clear, said Pervez George, a civil aviation official. He said the Airbus 321 was flying from Karachi to Islamabad. 

A reporter for Pakistani TV channel Geo TV said that the pilot was trying to land at Islamabad on schedule at 9:30 a.m. local time (12:30 a.m. ET), but was told to wait because the airport was busy. 

The plane crashed into the rugged Margalla Hills near the Damanekoh resort 13 minutes after losing contact with the airport's control tower. 





Relatives of passengers of a Pakistani plane that crashed in hills outside of Islamabad wait in Jinnah International Airport

*'The weather is just too bad for flying' *
At Islamabad's international airport, passengers in the departure lounge scanned the television screens for news. 

"I'm not surprised something like this has happened," Ahmed Fairuz, a passenger awaiting departure, told Reuters. "The weather is just too bad for flying." 

There had been heavy monsoon rains in the area for at least a couple of days. 

Pakistani news channels showed what appeared to be wreckage of the plane as a helicopter hovered above the heavily forested hills to assess the situation. Fire was visible and smoke was blowing up from the scene. The army said it was sending special troops to the area to help out along with helicopters. 

Hundreds of friends and relatives of those on board the flight swarmed ticket counters desperately seeking information at Islamabad's airport. A large cluster of people also surrounded the list of passengers on the flight, which was posted near the Airblue ticket counter. 

"Nobody is guiding anyone. People are running from one counter to another," said Arshad Mahmood, whose brother, Maulana Nawab Ulhasan, a prayer leader in a town near Islamabad, was on the flight. 

"I'm praying for his survival, but I think there is little hope," Mahmood said. 

Arshad Ali said his cousin, Raza Ali, was supposed to be on the flight but missed it in Karachi on his way from Canada. 

"We are happy he missed the flight, but things here are in shambles at the airport," Ali added. "For God's sake, take care of the worried people, the relatives of those who were on the unfortunate plane. They have no information and are just running here and there." 

Saqlain Altaf told Pakistan's ARY news channel that he was on a family outing in the hills when he saw the plane looking unsteady in the air. "The plane had lost balance, and then we saw it going down," he said, adding that he heard the crash. 

Raheel Ahmed, a spokesman for the airline, said an investigation would be launched, but that for now the focus was to find survivors. 

The plane was no more than eight years old, and it had no known technical issues, Ahmed said. He added that to his knowledge, the pilots had not sent any emergency signals. 

Airblue flies within Pakistan as well as internationally to the United Arab Emirates, Oman and the United Kingdom. 

The only previous recorded accident for Airblue, a carrier that began flying in 2004, was a tailstrike in May 2008 at Quetta airport by one of the airline's Airbus 321 jets. There were no casualties and damage was minimal, according to the U.S.-based Aviation Safety Network. 

The Airbus 320 family of medium-range jets, which includes the 321 model that crashed Wednesday, is one of the most popular in the world, with about 4,000 jets delivered since deliveries began in 1988. 

Twenty-one of the aircraft have been lost in accidents since then, according to the Aviation Safety Network's database. The deadliest was a 2007 crash at landing in Sao Paolo by Brazil's TAM airline, in which all 187 people on board perished, along with 12 others on the ground. 

The last major plane crash in Pakistan was in July 2006 when a Fokker F-27 twin-engine aircraft operated by Pakistan International Airlines slammed into a wheat field on the outskirts of the central Pakistani city of Multan, killing all 45 people on board. 

In August 1989, another PIA Fokker, with 54 people onboard, went down in northern Pakistan on a domestic flight. The plane's wreckage was never found. 

In September 1992, a PIA Airbus A300 crashed into a mountain in Nepal, killing all 167 people on board. Investigators found the plane was flying 1,500 feet lower than it reported as it approached the Katmandu airport. 






Official: No survivors from Pakistan jet crash - World news - South and Central Asia - Pakistan - msnbc.com


----------



## fawwaxs

According to AFP, rescue workers have recovered the bodies of more than 100 people.

One of the youth parliamentarians going to attend the Youth Parliament session is also reported dead. No survivors have been brought to the hospitals and there no survivors at the crash site according to Express 24/7


----------



## fawwaxs

May I try and put some perspective on this for those above who don&#8217;t seem to know much about aviation but are writing anyway:

If you are using runway 12 as it seems (the Murree road side) there is no ILS. The ILS is on runway 30 (the opposite side). So the procedure (which I never thought was safe) is you fly the ILS to 30 and then you break off and turn right and fly parallel to the Margalla hills and then turn back in and land on 12. It&#8217;s not a circle but more of a race-track pattern.

You may ask why not have the aircraft turn left rather than right towards the Margalla Hills. The reason is that on the left of runway 30 is Dhamial Air Base, GHQ and so on and as far as I remember that is all so-called &#8220;Restricted&#8221; airspace. You cannot fly over it.

This is CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain) not as stated above.

Final point, when you are flying parallel to the Margalla Hills, you are required to keep the airport on your left in sight. So I can visualize the captain in the left seat looking left. Maybe the F/O was flying and craning his neck too. They just seem to have drifted into the Margalla Hills &#8212; perhaps because of high winds. They lost what is called &#8220;Situational Awareness&#8221;. Basically they did not know where they were.

*May those who perished rest in eternal peace.*


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## kursed

There are no survivors, is the word from the ground-site.


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## fawwaxs

*PAF is working on decoding the black box. GM of Airblue says the Airblue plane that crashed was relatively new and was only eight to 10 years*


----------



## Spring Onion

No survivors  Geo appologised for reporting there were survivors.


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## fawwaxs

Bad weather and wind conditions did not allow the plane to land by the regular route. Qamar Zaman Kaira says we should wait for inquiry and not rely on speculations. Kaira calls for patience.

The plane had its landing gear down at the time of the crash according to the Spokesman of the CAA.


----------



## AliFarooq

fawwaxs said:


> According to AFP, rescue workers have recovered the bodies of more than 100 people.
> 
> One of the youth parliamentarians going to attend the Youth Parliament session is also reported dead. No survivors have been brought to the hospitals and there no survivors at the crash site according to Express 24/7



Geo reporting the same thing, no survivers


----------



## kaku1

sad report!!!!!!


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## XYON

BATMAN said:


> Does any one knows the background of airblue pilots?
> Are those also hired on basis of relatioships ignoring better available choices!!!



Bulk of Air Blue pilots are ex-Pakistan Air Force. They get their licensing and conversion training on simulators center in Jordon.

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## Jet Li

Jana said:


> No survivors  Geo appologised for reporting there were survivors.



Reports just say 5 did survive the initial crash but died on the way to the hospital. 

---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 PM ----------




fawwaxs said:


> *PAF is working on decoding the black box. GM of Airblue says the Airblue plane that crashed was relatively new and was only eight to 10 years*



It was 8 years old.


----------



## BATMAN

fawwaxs said:


> The plane had its landing gear down at the time of the crash according to the Spokesman of the CAA.



Is this assumption based on some witness or CAA have a control tower at around margala hills?


----------



## fawwaxs

*No survivors in the plane crash says Rehman Malik.*


----------



## GUNNER

*Plane crash in Pakistan kills 152 people*

(AP) 

ISLAMABAD  A government official says all 152 people on board a plane that crashed in the hills surrounding Pakistan's capital were killed.

Imtiaz Elahi, the chairman of the Capital Development Authority, told The Associated Press that earlier reports of five survivors from the crash were wrong and that all aboard died. The Capital Development Authority has a group that responds to emergency situations


----------



## fawwaxs

BATMAN said:


> Is this assumption based on some witness or CAA have a control tower at around margala hills?



CAA spokesman on plane crash

http://tribune.com.pk/multimedia/videos/31933/


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## Peregrine

i have a friend who works at the airport & he has informed me that they didn't allow the plane to land rather asked the pilot to divert it to lahore. What were the reasons for doing that, nobody knows yet.


----------



## sivan_and

OMG...RIP to those deceased..and may God almighty give Strength to those bereaving families..why God is so cruel at times----poor souls--


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## Patriot

Peregrine said:


> i have a friend who works at the airport & he has informed me that they didn't allow the plane to land rather asked the pilot to divert it to lahore. What were the reasons for doing that, nobody knows yet.


Bad weather according to news - Flights were diverted to Lahore.


----------



## Mujahid

*Crewmembers among 152 killed in crash: Malik*

ISLAMABAD: Federal Interior Minister Rehman Malik said all 152 persons including crewmembers onboard have been killed in the crash. Earlier, there were reports of survival of five people.

Crewmembers among 152 killed in crash: Malik


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## Patriot

Hashim Raza Garvaizi, a captain for Pakistan International Airlines, told GEO television that the airport&#8217;s runway has auto-landing instruments that allow the plane to land at zero visibility. Mr. Garvaizi knew the pilot and said he had an impeccable record. He speculated that the plane may have been struck by lightening or wind currents may have caused it to dip lower than expected. Mr. Garvaizi said another plane diverted to Lahore about 30 minutes before the Airblue crash.


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## Peregrine

Patriot said:


> Bad weather according to news - Flights were diverted to Lahore.


of course, the bad weather!! so instead of letting a plane land which is flying right over the airport, you should send it to another city. diverting flying flights from khi to lhr makes sense but from the air space of Islamabad to lhr? lot of things just don't add up.


----------



## Tayyab1796

Peregrine said:


> i have a friend who works at the airport & he has informed me that they didn't allow the plane to land rather asked the pilot to divert it to lahore. What were the reasons for doing that, nobody knows yet.



Our skies are not like Heathrow or JFK airport where there is too much air traffic ,I believe there should be more information sharing between Control towers and Pilots , If Isloo weather was bad the flight had to pass over Lahore or near it where they could have landed it instead of going all the way to Isloo only to be told that its raining there ... Heads need to roll on this (but i m sure our rulers are sooo thick skinned no minister will resign and admit his mistake ... morally sooo corrupt) . 
My condolances to grieving families . May all who died RIP ..amen


----------



## Spring Onion

Patriot said:


> Hashim Raza Garvaizi, a captain for Pakistan International Airlines, told GEO television that the airports runway has auto-landing instruments that allow the plane to land at zero visibility. Mr. Garvaizi knew the pilot and said he had an impeccable record. He speculated that the plane may have been struck by lightening or wind currents may have caused it to dip lower than expected. Mr. Garvaizi said another plane diverted to Lahore about 30 minutes before the Airblue crash.



They also say that it hit the mountain due to which half of its part fell into a gorge


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## Xeric

Geo bas88tards!!!!!

Showing an interview with a family who 4-5 members (3 kids) died aboard flight 202.

And they say, they are looking forward to interview some more such families.

You SOB!!!

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## Peregrine

sivan_and said:


> OMG...RIP to those deceased..and may God almighty give Strength to those bereaving families..why God is so cruel at times----poor souls--


get over yourself! this is not the time for such imbecilic statements. Man invented plane, man was flying it & some dumb morons at the airport didn't let it land safely

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## x_man

BATMAN said:


> Does any one knows the background of airblue pilots?
> Are those also hired on basis of relatioships ignoring better available choices!!!



*Captain Pervez* was a PIA veteran...who had 30 years of airline experience under his belt...he was 747 captain for a long time and was also an instructor on 747s......PIA doesnt allow pilots to fly after 60 years of age ( being a semi govt agency where retirement age is 60) , however in all the airlines world over , the pilots retirement age is 65....so many PIA captians who retire at 60, join private airlines and can fly for another 5 years....so there is no doubt about the experience of Captain Pervez.

*First Officer Muntajib* was an ex Airforce Mirage and F-16 pilot....He had left PAF couple of years back and was adequately trained to fly an Airbus 319/320/321....Although he did not had much experience of the airline flying but he was not new to flying either.

A very sad and unfortunate accident indeed....May God bless the souls of all the deceased ones..

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## Patriot

Man i am so angry.The bastards at Bharat Rakshak are actually enjoying this event.******* assholes.


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## Hyde

Inna Lilla hai wa inna ellaihi raji'oon - RIP


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## Xeric

xeric said:


> Another _shosha_ from Geo (and they may be right);
> 
> International flight safety requires a safety standard of ANO-3 (Air Navigation Order) whereas, PIA and CAA both were able to pass a new ANO namely ANO-4, which has a lower safety rating as compared to ANO-3.
> 
> Example, under ANO-3 a pilot, for instance flying from the US to Pakistan, cannot be asked to fly back to London after a few hours until his 24 hour rest is not catered for, BUT under the new ANO-4 pilots can be (and should) fly again even after 4 hours of their landing after a long flight!!


Geo was shunting MD PIA over this ANO thingy, and the guy shunted them back like hell!

What a duel!

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## Spring Onion

xeric said:


> Geo bas88tards!!!!!
> 
> Showing an interview with a family who 4-5 members (3 kids) died aboard flight 202.
> 
> And they say, they are looking forward to interview some more such families.
> 
> You SOB!!!



 Geo buaff.oons are spreading every kind of BS cashing in on dead bodies 

Their useless idiot woman reporter was repeating how the bodies are burnt which part of the bodies are burnt.

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## Patriot

xeric said:


> Geo was shunting MD PIA over this ANO thingy, and the guy shunted them back like hell!
> 
> What a duel!


Geo just wants to create controversy.GEO is the worst channel.They are actually enjoying the show knowing that they're getting much more viewers now.Showing all those animations etc.

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## booo

very sad news. RIP the deceased.


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## mr42O

I am watching GEO NEWS, ARY NEWS about AIRBLUE plan crash today. 

GEO reporters keeping saying there are BODY PARTS over all. They are keep saying death bodies are in many parts etc and rescue workers are collecting body parts. 

FOR GOOD SAKE. THINK ABOUT FAMILIES WHO ARE HIT BY THIS CRASH. 

DO YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT DEATH PPL ARE IN MANY PARTS ETC ???? 

HOW CAN I CONTACT GEO ARY ETC ? To tell them stop talking like this. Just say death body but telling about body parts ?

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## Spring Onion

Patriot said:


> Man i am so angry.The bastards at Bharat Rakshak are actually enjoying this event.******* assholes.



that place stinks 

Same is the case with comments from bharatis on newspaper websites.

Anyway these are people who get happy over killings of human even in natural disasters.


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## Xeric

x_man said:


> *Captain Pervez* was a PIA veteran...who had 30 years of airline experience under his belt...he was 747 captain for a long time and was also an instructor on 747s......PIA doesnt allow pilots to fly after 60 years of age ( being a semi govt agency where retirement age is 60) , however in all the airlines world over , the pilots retirement age is 65....so many PIA captians who retire at 60, join private airlines and can fly for another 5 years....so there is no doubt about the experience of Captain Pervez.
> 
> *First Officer Muntajib* was an ex Airforce Mirage and F-16 pilot....He had left PAF couple of years back and was adequately trained to fly an Airbus 319/320/321....Although he did not had much experience of the airline flying but he was not new to flying either.
> 
> A very sad and unfortunate accident indeed....May God bless the souls of all the deceased ones..



AirBlue rep just told media that Captain Pervaiz had 35 years of flying experience and had flown over 25000 hours.

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## Areesh

Patriot said:


> Man i am so angry.The bastards at Bharat Rakshak are actually enjoying this event.******* assholes.



What a shame.


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## Peregrine

LOL, ladies & gents if GEO isn't reporting accurately or spicing things up then you have several other channels to switch to, thing is its not GEO which loves controversies it's the people as well.

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## Xeric

Patriot said:


> Man i am so angry.The bastards at Bharat Rakshak are actually enjoying this event.******* assholes.



Can you quote something from there?! So that we can see how low a human can actually go....


----------



## Ahmad

mr42O said:


> I am watching GEO NEWS, ARY NEWS about AIRBLUE plan crash today.
> 
> GEO reporters keeping saying there are BODY PARTS over all. They are keep saying death bodies are in many parts etc and rescue workers are collecting body parts.
> 
> FOR GOOD SAKE. THINK ABOUT FAMILIES WHO ARE HIT BY THIS CRASH.
> 
> DO YOU HAVE TO SAY THAT DEATH PPL ARE IN MANY PARTS ETC ????
> 
> HOW CAN I CONTACT GEO ARY ETC ? To tell them stop talking like this. Just say death body but telling about body parts ?



Absolutely!! Reporting is someting and putting salt on the victim's families' wounds is soemthing else. I am sure it is not deliberate, but the TV need to be carefull.


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## Nahraf

Pakistani reporters have not received any sensitivity training. Some Pakistani public also likes to hear gory details.


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## Solomon2

I heard radio report here in D.C. of forty survivors. This strikes me as unlikely.


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## mr42O

i want to cry hearing all that. Some one plz some how contact GEO and ARY to sop this nonesense. 

For our media its a "drama" "film". Just disgusting i have lost all respect for these channels. They have no respect for poor ppl who have to lost there love ones. BAN ALL CHANNELS FOR USING THIS LANGUAGE,


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## Capt.Popeye

A Very Sad Incident.
R.I.P. to the departed souls, wishing a quick and complete recovery for those injured and strength to the bereaved families.


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## somebozo

they are shameless..you dont worry about that!


----------



## mr42O

Nahraf said:


> Pakistani reporters have not received any sensitivity training. Pakistani public would also like to hear gory details.



Not only reporters on crash side but also ppl telling news . just disgusting.

What does that tell about our media ?:

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:49 PM ----------




somebozo said:


> they are shameless..you dont worry about that!



I am thinking about families who have lost there love one. Listning all these detalis ?


----------



## Peregrine

Solomon2 said:


> I heard radio report here in D.C. of forty survivors. This strikes me as unlikely.


according to latest news there are no survivors


----------



## Spring Onion

Nahraf said:


> Pakistani reporters have not received any sensitivity training. Pakistani public would also like to hear gory details.



Its not like that. 


There is entire code of ethics. Its just that Geo and some other Channels have started hiring undergraduates sans any experience in journalism. 

anyway thats one part. But Geo survives on street language and such cheap tactics.

Its disgusting its reporters instead of important details are describing the state of burnt dead bodies


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## mehru

*No technical fault reported in passenger plane: Air Blue spokesman*

Private Airline Air Blue spokesman said that there was no technical fault in the Passenger plane which crashed in Margalla hills but there is possibility that plane crashed due to inclemnent weather.
Talking to private TV channel here on Wednesday the spokesman to Air Blue airline said that inclement foggy weather could be the cause of plane crash at Margalla hills but there was no technical fault reported in the plane as the plane was of latest model. 
No technical fault reported in passenger plane: Air Blue spokesman | Pakistan | News | Newspaper | Daily | English | Online


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## somebozo

Jana said:


> Its not like that.
> 
> 
> There is entire code of ethics. Its just that Geo and some other Channels have started hiring undergraduates sans any experience in journalism.
> 
> anyway thats one part. But Geo survives on street language and such cheap tactics.
> 
> Its disgusting its reporters instead of important details are describing the state of burnt dead bodies



Geo is turning into our equivalent of "orange media".
Rant, rant and non stop rant will help hiking share price.


----------



## fawwaxs

*There are no survivors. We believe all are dead. We are recovering the remains of the dead bodies from the wreckage, Imtiaz Elahi, chairman of Islamabad's Capital Development Authority 
*


----------



## mehru

xeric said:


> Can you quote something from there?! So that we can see how low a human can actually go....



No there is no need and don't ask for it. There are mad people everywhere. Let's not make it a Indo-Pak issue. They have send their condolences.

*India expresses grief over air crash in Pakistan*

Yousuf Raza Gilani New Delhi, July 28 (ANI): External Affairs Minister S. M. Krishna has condoled the unfortunate loss of innocent lives in the tragic plane crash today, near Islamabad in Pakistan.

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...ief-over-air-crash-in-pakistan_100403228.html

http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal...ictims-of-pakistan-plane-crash_100403262.html

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## MilesTogo

Strength to the families left behind...


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## x_man

Registration AP-BJB...the Airbus we lost today.... This aircraft was originally delivered in 2000, leased to airblue in 2006, 34,000 hours of total flying time with 13,500 flights.








The reporters at GEO TV are morons...they are just trying to twist the fact and trying to bring ANOs in and just trying to confuse masses with their gibberish reporting....

The crew was fresh...The above Airbus Registration AP-BJB came back to Karachi from Dubai this morning with no technical problems.....Captain Pervez and FO Muntajib who had a full nights rest, took over this aircraft for Khi &#8211; Isb trip....So to say that flight crew did not had rest or they violated the rules regarding rest is not right..... God bless their souls

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## Patriot

xeric said:


> Can you quote something from there?! So that we can see how low a human can actually go....


Sure


> Who knows pakis are capable of crashing the plane into shah faisal mosque...add laugh smiley here





> Did a stinger bring it down by any chance?
> Madrassa investigation at best!





> perhaps the plane was carrying a crate of mangoes?


There are many other bad comments by indian all over the
news websites..comments against Islam etc on Yahoo News and other news website but who knows we might see a crash in their country after all then i'd love to see their reaction.

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## Spring Onion

somebozo said:


> Geo is turning into our equivalent of "orange media".
> Rant, rant and non stop rant will help hiking share price.



 yes i wanted to use the word for Geo too.


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## fawwaxs

*It is a great tragedy for all Pakistan, May Allah rest the soul of the deceased in peace and give strength to the families of the departed souls, Ameen.

Request to all peoples to pray for their souls.*


----------



## FreekiN

Rest in Peace. ;'(

Such a sad and shocking news to wake up to.


----------



## Ahmad

May I ask something? what is orange media? i am not familiar with this term. I hear it here time to time the indian and pakistani members use it against each other.


----------



## GUNNER

*Perils of Islamabad flying: Pakistani pilot*

KARACHI, July 28, 2010 (AFP) - *The captain of the Pakistani passenger jet that crashed in the hills of Islamabad on Wednesday was a top professional flying into one of the most testing airports for pilots, a colleague said.*

"Islamabad airport's location is not an easy destination to fly into," Hashim Raza Gardezi, a former colleague of Pervez Iqbal Chaudhry who piloted the doomed Airbus A-321, told AFP. 

The craggy Margalla Hills to the north of the capital and unpredictable wind patterns can make an approach extremely difficult he said, going so far as to describe Islamabad as "one of the worst weather conditions in the world".

"Irregular wind systems surround the Margalla Hills often make it difficult for the pilots while in the air," Gardezi, a pilot for state Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), said. Airblue's flight 202 from Karachi was coming into land at Benazir Bhutto International airport when witnesses saw a jet flying at unusually low altitude then heard a loud boom.

*Gardezi told AFP that Chaudhry, was a true professional.*

"*Chaudhry was one of the finest professionals in this field... who never took unnecessary risks during his professional career*."

Procedures for safe landing at Islamabad advise pilots not to descend lower than 1,000 feet (300 metres) unless they have full visibility of the runway.

Gardezi said half an hour before the crash, a PIA flight was diverted to the eastern city of Lahore owing to poor weather conditions.

"With the experience Chaudhry had, I suppose the weather had got better by then prompting him to go for landing," he told Geo television.

Pakistan's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said the pilot had been in contact with the control tower at the airport until just before the crash. "*In the last conversation with the control tower, the pilot had been given landing clearance and the plane was proceeding normally for landing before it crashed into the hills," said Riaz-ul-Haq, the authority's deputy director.*

The civil aviation authority said all possible causes would be investigated, including terrorism and bad weather, although officials gave no indication that an attack might have been to blame.


----------



## ice_man

* Malik wants inquiry into route change * 

ISLAMABAD: Federal Interior Minister Rehman A Malik, grieved over the disastrous accident that killed several people this morning in Islamabad, said the inquiry would be conducted to ascertain the cause as to why the plane was on wrong route, Geo News reported Wednesday.

Speaking about the incident, he said the plane was signaled to land on the runway at a time when it was flying at a height of 2500 feet; however, the plane started to soar higher and reached 3,000 feet after the landing permission.

Malik said the search for the black box is on the go; so that, the actual course of the incident could be found out.

The interior minister stressed that investigations would be conducted to discover as to why plane flew on wrong path.

A special counter has been set up at the airport, so that the bereaved can garner information about the passengers of the plane.

Malik wants inquiry into route change


*SOMEONE JUST SHUT THIS MORON UP WHO SAID 5 PEOPLE SURVIVED RAISING HOPES FOR THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE DEAD!!!! MAN I AM GLAD HE DIDN'T BLAME THE TALIBAN HERE! WHICH IS HIS FAVOURITE ANSWER!!! 

THIS SOMALI LOOKING PIRATE NEEDS TO BE FIRED FOR LYING AND GIVING IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENTS! *


----------



## Spring Onion

Patriot said:


> Sure
> 
> 
> There are many other bad comments by indian all over the news websites..comments against Islam etc on Yahoo News and other news website but who knows we might see a crash in their country after all then i'd love to see their reaction.



Plague spreading species are spreading plague so let them its their trait.


On other hand there are some sensible human beings on that side who are also ashamed of these species.

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## fawwaxs




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## Materialistic

> anyway thats one part. But Geo survives on street language and such cheap tactics.
> 
> Its disgusting its reporters instead of important details are describing the state of burnt dead bodies



Not just that, they don't even have their facts right, some times GEO displays that pilot had experience of 25 years and sometimes its says 35 years. Even after when its declared that there are no survivors, still geo is showing there are 5 survivors.

Apart from that I heard dog barking from Daily News, some cheap makhdoom whatever, was telling AL-Jazeera that *[the airplane was very old it had already completed its flying hours, it required replacement and apart from that AirBlue has no standard they act as a last resort for those who wanna fly. 

Air blue has a poor safety record, most of their pilots haven't even completed their flight training and its Chairman is a politician and has no experience of running an Airline before. And all that airblue has are these A-320's (in a sense they are old or a cheap product)]
* 

And the facts are;

1- Pilot had flown for 35yrs for PIA's international routes & 4-5 yrs with AIrBlue.
2- Plane was manufactured in 2004, just six years old.
3- And this mere A-320 is flown by *Air France*, *Virgin Atlantic* (no need to mention), *Qatar Airways *(best airline for 5 consecutive yrs), Royal jordanian, US airways, China southern Airlines, Finair etc)

He showed his real blood when he said, AirBlue isn't good because its run by a Politician and he had no experience of owning an airline before, which means that Boeing and AIrbus are also unexperienced since their owners never had an aircraft manufacturing business before starting these companies.

I reallly want to screw up his career. Attention seeking b****** journalist, as long as we have such people in our media we will always be in a bad light around the globe.

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## Imran Khan

thanks to army air force and resque teams at least some moroon never use words we have no quick responce after incedent


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## Materialistic

*Want to bring attention to one of our own journalist trying to score by bashing airblue. 
*

I heard dog barking from Daily News, some cheap makhdoom whatever, was telling AL-Jazeera that [the airplane was very old it had already completed its flying hours, it required replacement and apart from that AirBlue has no standard they act as a last resort for those who wanna fly. 

Air blue has a poor safety record, most of their pilots haven't even completed their flight training and its Chairman is a politician and has no experience of running an Airline before. And all that airblue has are these A-320's (in a sense they are old or a cheap product)]


And the facts are;

1- Pilot had flown for 35yrs for PIA's international routes & 4-5 yrs with AIrBlue.
2- Plane was manufactured in 2004, just six years old.
3- And this mere A-320 is flown by Air France, Virgin Atlantic (no need to mention), Qatar Airways (best airline for 5 consecutive yrs), Royal jordanian, US airways, China southern Airlines, Finair etc...)

He showed his real blood when he said, AirBlue isn't good because its run by a Politician and he had no experience of owning an airline before, which means that Boeing and AIrbus are also unexperienced since their owners never had an aircraft manufacturing business before starting these companies.

*I reallly want to screw up his career. Attention seeking b****** journalist, as long as we have such people in our media we will always be in a bad light around the globe.*

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## fawwaxs




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## mr42O

thats 3rd cho*iye repoerter of GEO telling about body parts.


----------



## fawwaxs

Two US citizens on plane crashed in Islamabad: embassy

ISLAMABAD: Two American citizens were on board a Pakistani passenger plane that crashed into hills above Islamabad on Wednesday, a spokesman for the US embassy said.


----------



## fawwaxs

*102 BODIES RECOVERED FROM SITE: CHAIRMAN NDMA *


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## x_man

First Officer Muntajib lost his life in a tragic Airblue crash today. 







An ex- PAF and a very seasoned Mirage and F-16 pilot who had joined Airblue around an year back. Muntajib who was only 35 has left behind a wife and 2 young sons...

May God bless his soul and all the others who died in the crash.

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## Patriot

Well Express News has gone one step further and blamed it on Pilot.Wow NTSB takes years to complete investigation while our genius media man has already completed investigation.Also Express News is telling and flashing news again and agian that there are mutilated body parts all over the scene.

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## jbond197

May the departed soul RIP. May god give strength to their family. 

I feel some kind of innovation is needed in this area as it makes flying quite risky.. I wish we get some way to prevent such accidents in future...


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## fawwaxs

[/COLOR]All bodies recovered from Margalla Hills plane crash
The passengers list is available in video.

*Plane crash passengers list released*


----------



## arsalan shafique

plane was in da no fly zone area......still only army helicopterz r allowed dere...........Wat coUld be in No fly Zone area..................a WAr head ???
or secret army base ?????


----------



## arsalan shafique

fawwaxs said:


> *102 BODIES RECOVERED FROM SITE: CHAIRMAN NDMA *



bhaejan ...............Not Even A sInGLe BodY IS in One Peace..............this 102 peaces could of 120 or 130 passengers!!!!


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## Patriot

arsalan shafique said:


> plane was in da no fly zone area......still only army helicopterz r allowed dere...........Wat coUld be in No fly Zone area..................a WAr head ???
> or secret army base ?????


Nope - Parliament, President House and General Head Quarters, Pakistan Army.IIRC Air Force HQ and Navy HQ is also nearby.


----------



## Nav

R.I.P To the deads. According to geo news all 152 onbord r dead. May ALLAH give them best place in heaven. 
All 152 on board dead in Islamabad plane crash - GEO.tv


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## Nav

Geo and other pakistani media is inspired by indian channels , e.g cnn-ibn , ndtv 24 x7 , and times now. They like to add chilly in news . But for God sake atleast think about those who are victims of this accident,


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## Abu Zolfiqar

this is a tragedy of staggering proportions. As if we didnt have enough people dying on such scale. This was the last thing needed.

a crisis management team should be set up to deal with and assist the family and friends of the departed souls


it's obvious that weather is to be blamed for this accident; and investigation into the crash must be revealed and shared with the public.





RIP to the departed.


*&#1575;&#1606;&#1617;&#1575; &#1604;&#1604;&#1729; &#1608; &#1575;&#1606;&#1617;&#1575; &#1575;&#1604;&#1740;&#1607; &#1585;&#1575;&#1580;&#1593;&#1608;&#1606;*


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## sparklingway

This is called being a heartless, two bit worthless *****. The author wonders whether the crash was a conspiracy to divert attention from the fake degree issue:-

Islamabad Plane Crash: Conspiracy or Accident? | The Pakistani Spectator


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## Patriot

sparklingway said:


> This is called being a heartless, two bit worthless *****. The author wonders whether the crash was a conspiracy to divert attention from the fake degree issue:-
> 
> Islamabad Plane Crash: Conspiracy or Accident? | The Pakistani Spectator


I knew deep down my heart that people would blame the government or JI Turds might blame Blackwater.Well you already have paksepctator this retard who thinks it is a consipiracy.


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## ice_man

i have a question:
*
IF THE BLACK BOX SURVIVES THE PLANE CRASH THEN WHY NOT MAKE THE WHOLE PLAIN OUT OF THAT MATERIAL?*

sorry for my dumb questions guys but i am wondering.


----------



## Swift

RIP to the departed soul. God give strength to the impacted families.


----------



## Durrak

MAY Thr souls RIP


----------



## mr42O

presidnet of youth parliment Prem Chand also died in crash


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## AstanoshKhan

x_man said:


> First Officer Muntajib lost his life in a tragic Airblue crash today.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> An ex- PAF and a very seasoned Mirage and F-16 pilot who had joined Airblue around an year back. Muntajib who was only 35 has left behind a wife and 2 young sons...
> 
> May God bless his soul and all the others who died in the crash.



Aahh, what would his family be going through right now and of all those who died in this trajic accident? A sad day for our whole nation. The loved ones, the dear ones lost their lives, digging a hole for all the dreams the relatives had attached to them. What a sad incident indeed. May Allah swt give patience to their families. 

Even the sky is weeping since morning... What a sad day today.

Everyone should offer two Rakat Nafal for the affected families, that may Allah swt give them patience to overcome this sad news.

Ya Allah Khair

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## Bas_tum_Pak

It is sad Accident , I really shocked after watching all this. May ALLAH Give peace to the relatives of the martyred .


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## Hyde

* Malik wants inquiry into route change*

Updated at: 1644 PST, Wednesday, July 28, 2010
ISLAMABAD: Federal Interior Minister Rehman A Malik, grieved over the disastrous accident that killed several people this morning in Islamabad, said the inquiry would be conducted to ascertain the cause as to why the plane was on wrong route, Geo News reported Wednesday.

Speaking about the incident, he said *the plane was signaled to land on the runway at a time when it was flying at a height of 2500 feet; however, the plane started to soar higher and reached 3,000 feet after the landing permission.*

Malik said the search for the black box is on the go; so that, the actual course of the incident could be found out.

*The interior minister stressed that investigations would be conducted to discover as to why plane flew on wrong path.
*
A special counter has been set up at the airport, so that the bereaved can garner information about the passengers of the plane.

Malik wants inquiry into route change - GEO.tv

==============

do you smell something fishy?

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## arsalan shafique

guyz...........the first one to reach dere were INteligence guys.......dere is now a bit surety that in that particular zone dere is sumthing hidden n THE PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN BY ARMY ItSElf..............becoz dere wasnt a pilot error nor the plane was in any prob.........!!!!
n As a confirmed news from a source that PIA FLight 268 was shot down by INdians in 1992.......as it mistakenly crossed the border...........!!!!


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## GUNNER

arsalan shafique said:


> guyz...........the first one to reach dere were INteligence guys.......dere is now a bit surety that in that particular zone dere is sumthing hidden n THE PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN BY ARMY ItSElf..............becoz dere wasnt a pilot error nor the plane was in any prob.........!!!!
> n As a confirmed news from a source that PIA FLight 268 was shot down by INdians in 1992.......as it mistakenly crossed the border...........!!!!



Get a hold on your conspiracy theories man !

Hundreds of people visit that hidden zone each day..!

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## Fighter488

Inna-Lil-Lahe-Wa-Inna-Alahe-Rajio'n

A very sad news indeed.


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## Patriot

arsalan shafique said:


> guyz...........the first one to reach dere were INteligence guys.......dere is now a bit surety that in that particular zone dere is sumthing hidden n THE PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN BY ARMY ItSElf..............becoz dere wasnt a pilot error nor the plane was in any prob.........!!!!


Oh my god - You're crazy.

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## sparklingway

arsalan shafique said:


> guyz...........the first one to reach dere were INteligence guys.......dere is now a bit surety that in that particular zone dere is sumthing hidden n THE PLANE WAS SHOT DOWN BY ARMY ItSElf..............becoz dere wasnt a pilot error nor the plane was in any prob.........!!!!
> n As a confirmed news from a source that PIA FLight 268 was shot down by INdians in 1992.......as it mistakenly crossed the border...........!!!!



Can you please get a hold of your nutty theories right now? It's a no-fly zone but it does not mean that it was brought down.

PIA Flight 268 came down due to pilot error.


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## Spring Onion

Zaki said:


> * Malik wants inquiry into route change*
> 
> Updated at: 1644 PST, Wednesday, July 28, 2010
> ISLAMABAD: Federal Interior Minister Rehman A Malik, grieved over the disastrous accident that killed several people this morning in Islamabad, said the inquiry would be conducted to ascertain the cause as to why the plane was on wrong route, Geo News reported Wednesday.
> 
> Speaking about the incident, he said *the plane was signaled to land on the runway at a time when it was flying at a height of 2500 feet; however, the plane started to soar higher and reached 3,000 feet after the landing permission.*
> 
> Malik said the search for the black box is on the go; so that, the actual course of the incident could be found out.
> 
> *The interior minister stressed that investigations would be conducted to discover as to why plane flew on wrong path.
> *
> A special counter has been set up at the airport, so that the bereaved can garner information about the passengers of the plane.
> 
> Malik wants inquiry into route change - GEO.tv
> 
> ==============
> 
> do you smell something fishy?



yeh we smell this bhangee is stinking . he is the idiot who gave wrong information about survivors.

The stinking mouse doesnt know a shi.t and speaking foot in mouth


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## sparklingway

CAA has released the last minutes of the pilot-ATC conversation:-

Control towers first warning: You are getting away from the runway.

Pilots response: We can see the runway.

Control towers second warning: Immediately turn left, Margalla is ahead.

Pilots response: We can see it.


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## rohailmalhi

I think this incident has nothing to do with NO-FLY ZONE thingy .
but what i got is there was sum confusion at the pilots end which might be due to bad weather or might due neglegence on behalf of control tower guys.

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## Patriot

Then why they did not turn around?Maybe the plane went into stall.Or the pilots thought the hills are away but they were very near and they went into them.


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## Frankenstein

152 passengers in the plane and only 3 percent survived who are still in critical condition, RIP to the deceased 

Worst plane crash in the history of Pakistan, I was in my room when I heard that plane, it was soo hard that if I was standin on a runway, dono the exact time but it was after 9am I guess


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## GUNNER

*Key factors for Pakistan crash probe* 

*Bad weather and technical failure are two key areas for the inquiry *

As Pakistan authorities launch an investigation into the crash of the Airblue Airbus A321 near Islamabad, Jim Ferguson, an aviation expert based in Aberdeen, Scotland, discusses some of the possible scenarios.

*Bad weather*

*"Until the plane's 'black box' flight recorders are found, we simply will not know what caused this crash*. There are so many unanswered questions.

It could be a combination of many things. But from the reports I have seen, the weather could be the villain of the piece. If you've ever been in monsoon rain, you know how serious it is.

But whatever the weather, this is an accident which should not have happened. Monsoons happen every year in Pakistan - they are nothing new to aviation.

So my first question is: Was this plane trying to land in weather conditions which were below the agreed minimum for the aircraft? And did the pilot have any other option?

It would have been up to the crew to make a decision about whether or not to land. Because no matter the weather, the airport would have remained open.

We need to know what the actual weather was at the time of the crash. What was the visibility? Was there fog? Was there a cross wind? Was there any wind shear or nasty microbursts (downdrafts) hidden in the monsoon?

And it would be useful to know what Airblue's minimum conditions for landing were. I would guess a visibility of half a mile and a cloud base of 500ft. But that is a guess.

Throughout the journey, the crew should have been given regular weather updates. Each time they have to decide - is it worth continuing?

We don't know what information the crew had been given. But the Pakistani authorities will be wanting to know why the aircraft took off from Karachi in the first place.

Were the crew unwise to do so? And were they unwise to continue?"

*Fuel shortage*

"The bad weather in Islamabad begs the question: Did the aircraft have enough fuel to divert to another airport?

A plane should always carry enough fuel to reach its destination, plus an allowance for circling and enough spare fuel to reach a nominated alternative airport.

Karachi to Islamabad is around two hours flying time, so the pilot may not have had enough fuel for a round trip. But they should certainly have had enough to divert."

*Navigational error*

"Was this a navigational error by the pilot?

Some reports indicate the plane may have been circling before an attempt to land. If so, was this its first attempt?

I have to assume that it was. Because I haven't heard any reports of an overshoot.

It is possible that the plane had already made an approach, taken a look and thought - I don't fancy that, and gone for another circle. But nobody has said anything yet about an aborted landing procedure.

If you are going to circle for a while, there is a safety height below which you should not descend. Usually it is the height of the tallest nearby hill, plus a couple of thousand feet for clearance. Was the plane below that height? And if so, why?

To help the pilot navigate, we know there are a couple of navigation beacons around Islamabad. But we do not know if there is an instrument landing system. If there is, was it working? Was it affected by the heavy monsoon rain?"

*Technical failure*

"Was there a problem with the plane's navigational systems?

The Airbus is a complicated aeroplane and it doesn't let people down. Not often anyway. Everything should work, no matter the weather.

To measure your altitude, the plane has a barometric altimeter, which you set to local pressure. You should also have a radar altimeter, and a ground proximity warning system (GPWS) which tells you 'Pull up. Pull up'.

When it says that, you put the throttles forward and climb like a homesick angel. You've got to otherwise you're going to wrap yourself around a hill.

The system is quite unreal. You can input the details of your whole flight when you take off - all the beacons and the heights you want to do - and sit back and let the plane do it for you. But in bad weather like that, most guys would be going for it hands on.

As for the airline's safety record, this appears to be the first major accident that Airblue have had."


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## Mujahid

Dr Shahid Masud taunting in his analysis ... trying to be a smart ***.


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## Pukhtoon

Last month i was coming to islamabad airport in Thai airways when it was ready for landing every thing was just normal the plane was about to hetting the ground suddenly the plane take off again from almost the runway.

No reasong given there ..May b bcoz of Low altitude...


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## Mujahid

Rescue efforts


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## SekrutYakhni

Mujahid said:


> Dr Shahid Masud taunting in his analysis ... trying to be a smart ***.
> 
> YouTube - Plane Crashed In Islamabad - Doctor Shahid Masood - 28 July 2010





It only happens in Pakistan!
Where Media is the jude while CAA, pilots etc are criminals. According to Doctor, CAA should have given a statement about what happened. Well, I don't think that CAA has some kind of magic stick which will lead them to a comprehensive conclusion right after the accident. It will take months perhaps years to get to a final and comprehensive conclusion. Media should keep her mouth shut and let CAA do the work.
CJP should take suo muto action against media! 
News anchors, moderators etc are giving too much lala land opinions which does not reflect ground realities most of the times. CAA will decide what happened not BS MEDIA!


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## Huda




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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Was there any communication with airport ? 

Kind of strange to see a new plane , experienced pilot parish 

Not that moon soon rain is easy to fly in but , to hit a mountain , which should be 100% visible on your avionics is highly debatable

Why is there no confirmation from airport were they not in touch with plan pilot ?


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## Peregrine

saad445566 said:


> It only happens in Pakistan!
> Where Media is the jude while CAA, pilots etc are criminals. According to Doctor, CAA should have given a statement about what happened. Well, I don't think that CAA has some kind of magic stick which will lead them to a comprehensive conclusion right after the accident. It will take months perhaps years to get to a final and comprehensive conclusion. Media should keep her mouth shut and let CAA do the work.
> CJP should take suo muto action against media!
> News anchors, moderators etc are giving too much lala land opinions which does not reflect ground realities most of the times. CAA will decide what happened not BS MEDIA!


well he might be a doctor but his concerns are valid, CAA should have held a press conference to clarify any lingering doubts, as one cannot easily apprehend the biggest question of all that " what in the world was that plane doing near Margalla hills" & equally significant one is that, why it wasn't allowed to land twice when it came at the airport?


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## Tomahawk

Very very sad event. May the souls of departed rest in peace.
A complete and conclusive inquiry should be conducted into the matter to determine the route cause and factors involved and they need to be addressed so that such terrible events would be averted in the future.


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## Patriot

Mujahid said:


> Dr Shahid Masud taunting in his analysis ... trying to be a smart ***.
> 
> YouTube - Plane Crashed In Islamabad - Doctor Shahid Masood - 28 July 2010


and our stupid people think he is some sort of great scholar


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## sparklingway

*Please no more questions about what and why until we have some facts cleared up. The CAA's Safety Investigation Board will release some statement by tomorrow before they carry out a full investigation, although it must be remembered that no air crash report has ever been able to find a conclusive fault (head over to HistoryofPIA forums and ask the pilots there).

Let's stop questioning why it was in a no fly-zone, whether it encountered any interference from the ground when it entered a no-fly zone or if it was solely pilot error.

This is not the time to discuss the reasons, especially since we know nothing right now. *


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## jha

Mujahid said:


> Dr Shahid Masud taunting in his analysis ... trying to be a smart ***.
> 
> YouTube - Plane Crashed In Islamabad - Doctor Shahid Masood - 28 July 2010



He is another conspiracy theorist...gets too much media attention..


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## sparklingway

*GoP is providing air travel for families of victims through PIA. If you know anybody, tell them to call the National Crisis Management Cell at 051-9211223-4.*


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Islamabad Airport is way OFF from the margalla hill , checked it on google map if the plane was heading to margalla hills it was going towards Afghanistan / Terbella Dam
Surprised no one from airport coomand tower has any clue on what was going on first thing that comes out of such cases is ground crew's statements what they communicated , with pilots 

Pilots just don't miss airports like this and start to move torward Afghanistan

Also Terbella Damn lies right after the Mountains 

In any case , RIP to the passengers and the families and hope a proper investigation is carrier our on all aspects - it must be a sad situation for many ppl in Pakistan who lost loved ones

I am from pindi so I know the hills very visible aspect in sky line


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## TOPGUN

What has happend is very sad lets stop going in to why what etc.... when we know more we can talk for now for GOD's sake lets pray for the ones that are gone and there famlies a request to all members thankyou & may GOD bless.


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## EyelessInGaza

RIP. May the families of the deceased have the strength to bear their loss, and may they find peace.

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## Abu Zolfiqar

sparklingway said:


> This is called being a heartless, two bit worthless *****. The author wonders whether the crash was a conspiracy to divert attention from the fake degree issue:-
> 
> Islamabad Plane Crash: Conspiracy or Accident? | The Pakistani Spectator



this is Pakistan afterall. Somebody had to do it 


lotas


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## sparklingway

Abu Zolfiqar said:


> this is Pakistan afterall. Somebody had to do it
> 
> 
> lotas



I know people (including me) are talking about media morons. Imagine if this girl were a reporter.

You cannot expect some rationality and sensitivity from the media when your country is full of such idiots.

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## sparklingway

Weather is much better now but this is what the rescue workers had to fight earlier in the day, thick fog, smoke and heavy rain:-






RR might be able to tell us about the situation when he returns from work.


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## Patriot

Apparently flight data recorder is still not found despite previous reports stating it has been found but eventually it will be found as send homing signals for a month or so.


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## AstanoshKhan

Goodbye Ali Shirazi! We Will Remember You Forever: Team Telecom Recorder








Ali Shirazi, Manager Communications at Mediapulse (Pvt.) Ltd., has also lost his life in the tragic accident of air crash occurred in Margla Hills Islamabad on Wednesday morning.

*He was in-charge of Telenor Pakistan public relations campaigns and media coordination at Mediapulse.*

Sources in the industry said that he was scheduled to attend a meeting in the capital with Telenor officials to discuss business affairs.

The team of Telecom Recorder expressed sorrow on his death along with other passengers flying in Airblues flight.

*With an MBA in Marketing & MIS from College of Business Management Ali had a four years of experience in marketing, advertising and PR. He had also managed ATL & BTL advertising of Toyota, FedEx, Engro & Singapore Airlines. * 

We will remember him forever as he was the first person of the industry who contacted us since we launched Telecom Recorder.

May Allah Almighty rest the departed soul in eternal peace and give the courage to member of the bereaved family to bear this irreparable loss. Aameen 

If you would like to share your own memories or thoughts of Ali Shirazi, please comment. We will try his loved ones get a copy of your posts.

Goodbye Ali Shirazi! We Will Remember You Forever: Team Telecom Recorder | Telecom Recorder


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## Dance

Horrible news 

May the deceased RIP


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## Gin ka Pakistan

With ever increasing air traffic for civil and military use , how can an out dated and small Islamabad Air port can manage it all. 

A sad day .


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## fawwaxs

*Pakistan is sad today.*


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## fawwaxs

*Pakistan declared it a day of mourning as everyone grieved the tragedy. *


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## TOPGUN

I saw this last night USA time and it has sadned my whole night and day today  very sad news.


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## fawwaxs

*"Islamabad airport not an easy destination to fly into" *

KARACHI: The captain of the Pakistani passenger jet that crashed in the hills of Islamabad on Wednesday was a top professional flying into one of the most testing airports for pilots, a colleague said.

&#8220;Islamabad airport's location is not an easy destination to fly into,&#8221; Hashim Raza Gardezi, a former colleague of Pervez Iqbal Chaudhry who piloted the doomed Airbus A-321, told AFP.

The craggy Margalla Hills to the north of the capital and unpredictable wind patterns can make an approach extremely difficult he said, going so far as to describe Islamabad as &#8220;one of the worst weather conditions in the world&#8221;.

&#8220;Irregular wind systems surround the Margalla Hills often make it difficult for the pilots while in the air,&#8221; Gardezi, a pilot for state Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), said.

Airblue's flight 202 from Karachi was coming into land at Benazir Bhutto International airport when witnesses saw a jet flying at unusually low altitude then heard a loud boom.

Gardezi told AFP that Chaudhry, was a true professional.

&#8220;Chaudhry was one of the finest professionals in this field... who never took unnecessary risks during his professional career.&#8221; Procedures for safe landing at Islamabad advise pilots not to descend lower than 1,000 feet (300 metres) unless they have full visibility of the runway.

Gardezi said half an hour before the crash, a PIA flight was diverted to the eastern city of Lahore owing to poor weather conditions.

&#8220;With the experience Chaudhry had, I suppose the weather had got better by then prompting him to go for landing,&#8221; he told Geo television.

Pakistan's Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) said the pilot had been in contact with the control tower at the airport until just before the crash.

&#8220;In the last conversation with the control tower, the pilot had been given landing clearance and the plane was proceeding normally for landing before it crashed into the hills,&#8221; said Riaz-ul-Haq, the authority's deputy director.

The civil aviation authority said all possible causes would be investigated, including terrorism and bad weather, although officials gave no indication that an attack might have been to blame.


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## SekrutYakhni

Peregrine said:


> well he might be a doctor but his concerns are valid, CAA should have held a press conference to clarify any lingering doubts, as one cannot easily apprehend the biggest question of all that " what in the world was that plane doing near Margalla hills" & equally significant one is that, why it wasn't allowed to land twice when it came at the airport?



You think that CAA is 'walia log organization'--CAA will publish a comprehensive detail AFTER doing an investigation. 

Saad to CAA: What is a plane?
Media to CAA: Please answer the question
Media, people: CAA is not responding. Well we told you, CAA is incapable!
People: See, CAA is hiding something. GO CATCH THEM!!
CAA: What kind of fools we have here. The question was not worthy to be replied by a professional organization. GO AND ASK MEDIA!!
*CAA: We need more time!!!*

You think that my question was worthy to be asked at the first place? 
No, it was not. Similarly, CAA will examine the accident and will publish the details. Right after the accident, doctor and co started to ask questions for which time is required. IT WAS BETTER FOR THE DOCTOR to go and HELP the rescue workers rather than criticizing all of the institutions! 

Morons present foolish argument; thus, their criticism is nothing more than--.


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## TailChoppers

saad445566 said:


> You think that CAA is 'walia log organization'--CAA will publish a comprehensive detail AFTER doing an investigation.
> 
> Saad to CAA: What is a plane?
> Media to CAA: Please answer the question
> Media, people: CAA is not responding. Well we told you, CAA is incapable!
> People: See, CAA is hiding something. GO CATCH THEM!!
> CAA: What kind of fools we have here. The question was not worthy to be replied by a professional organization. GO AND ASK MEDIA!!
> *CAA: We need more time!!!*
> 
> You think that my question was worthy to be asked as first place?
> No, it was not. Similarly, CAA will examine the accident and will publish the details. Right after the accident, doctor and co started to ask questions for which time is required. IT WAS BETTER FOR THE DOCTOR to go and HELP the rescue workers rather than criticizing all of the institutions!
> 
> Morons present foolish argument; thus, their criticism is nothing more than--.



Seriously dude our media is so very shitty! Completely ignorant.

And all these pictures of the victims loved ones, it aint a bloody drama, let them grieve in peace without turning their sorrow in a headline story. *Victims grieve after plane crash.* W T F else do you expect them to do??


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## SekrutYakhni

TailChoppers said:


> Seriously dude our media is so very shitty! Completely ignorant.
> 
> And all these pictures of the victims loved ones, it aint a bloody drama, let them grieve in peace without turning their sorrow in a headline story. *Victims grieve after plane crash.* W T F else do you expect them to do??



People present media not vice versa. Media is important in our society but people presenting it are incapable. It is good to educate people about the accident but MEDIA should realize that she is not the JUDGE! God damn, they cannot understand this simple thing? CAA and other agencies will investigate and if media is not satisfied than go to the courts BS!


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## sur

sparklingway said:


> *CAA has released the last minutes of the pilot-ATC conversation:-*
> Control tower&#8217;s first warning: You are getting away from the runway.
> Pilot&#8217;s response: We can see the runway.
> Control tower&#8217;s second warning: Immediately turn left, Margalla is ahead.
> Pilot&#8217;s response: We can see it.


Is this all that was released or there's more? Any link to the source? 




Mujahid said:


> Dr Shahid Masud taunting in his analysis ... *trying to be a smart* ***.YouTube - Plane Crashed In Islamabad - Doctor Shahid Masood - 28 July 2010


BUT he's speaking reality...!!! Isn't he.? There's NO competent ppl to deal with fires/disasters. After earthquake in Kashmir/Islamabad there wasn't even cranes to lift those concrete slabs.

edit:Weather network's rep just said on GEO TV that BlackBox has been found.


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## Haywards 5000

My Deep condolence to the victims families.....


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## Spring Onion

sur said:


> Is
> 
> BUT he's speaking reality...!!! Isn't he.? There's NO competent ppl to deal with fires/disasters. After earthquake in Kashmir/Islamabad there wasn't even cranes to lift those concrete slabs.
> 
> edit:Weather network's rep just said on GEO TV that BlackBox has been found.



This basta.rd should be sent to do rescue work and see how its difficult to do that in a gorge/s


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## sparklingway

Since even after reminding people that speculation is useless and pointless at this time, I'll copy-paste posts from pilots and some learned people:-



> The aircraft was on second attempt to land beyond the minimas. his first approach was a &#8216;Go Around&#8217;, the pilot reference to execution of missed approach to landing when on a limited precision approach to the airport he must have some visual refernce to the runway, beyond a lot of physics and math, in order to proceed. Islamabad instrument approach system called the ILS doesnt allow planes to descend beyond 300 feet if no visual reference is made to normal landing runway in north westerly direction called Runway 30. To avoid unfavorable winds and skuzzy weather, however, planes these days were usingthe opposite direction runway called Runway 12 and that placed approach to the runway from margalla hill side the only choice to large aircraft. Without reverse track sensing equipment, it can get tricky, but this airplane was perhaps equipped with everything like GPS aided terrain recognition and proximity warning that would have alerted the pilots to high ground. It even had enough fuel to fly back to karachi an option the pilots shuold have taken than to fall to the get-there-itus phenomenon, thats when pilots feel they can make it work. may be it was the radar controllers that put the plane on minimum vectoring when its them that guide planes instead of pilots making turning decisions. or may be the pilots were low enuogh for a contact approach (visually identifying ground while progressing) inadvertantly intercepted by a sudden cloud, only the investigation will tell what really happened. Nothing should be said in the hindsight. as a pilot, i have not taken a chance, especially when i had children with me. i feel thats what must be done, to get out of there and fly to safety and come some other time. i never expect a pilot with the kind of experience Air Blue Pilots have to blunder into idiocy. there are quite a few friends i have who call the Air Blue &#8216;Scare Blue&#8217;, based on their experiences with the airline has onducted itself. I flew out of Islamabad only yesterday and knew it instantly I had to be extremely careful.






> This is very tragic.
> May I try and put some perspective on this for those above who don&#8217;t seem to know much about aviation but are writing anyway.
> If you are using runway 12 as it seems (the Murree road side) there is no ILS. The ILS is on runway 30 (the opposite side). So the procedure (which I never thought was safe) is you fly the ILS to 30 and then you break off and turn right and fly parallel to the Margalla hills and then turn back in and land on 12. It&#8217;s not a circle but more of a race-track pattern.
> You may ask why not have the aircraft turn left rather than right towards the Margalla Hills. The reason is that on the left of runway 30 is Dhamial Air Base, GHQ and so on and as far as I remember that is all so-called &#8220;Restricted&#8221; airspace. You cannot fly over it.
> This is CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain) not as stated above.
> Final point, when you are flying parallel to the Margalla Hills, you are required to keep the airport on your left in sight. So I can visualize the captain in the left seat looking left. Maybe the F/O was flying and craning his neck too. They just seem to have drifted into the Margalla Hills &#8212; perhaps because of high winds. They lost what is called &#8220;Situational Awareness&#8221;. Basically they did not know where they were.
> May those who perished rest in eternal peace.





> There is too much ill-informed speculation here. The pilot a &#8220;hero&#8221;? He was an ex-PIA captain on the Jumbo with thousands of hours of flying time and must have known Islamabad by heart. Two aircraft had already executed a go-around and diverted to Lahore. The weather can change very quickly and maybe the pilot felt that he could give it a try. We don&#8217;t know what ATC told him and I am sure the ATC tapes will be kept secret from the public.
> This is a case of human error, sadly the most common cause of air accidents 70&#37; of which happen on take-off/approach to land.
> If he was executing a go-around as some are speculating then the go-around procedure for 30 is straight ahead and a LEFT turn away from Margall hills. If he was going around approaching 12, it is straight ahead and a turn RIGHT, away from the same hills.
> He was obviously circling to land on 12 (wind was from 050 not 090 as I reported earlier at about 16 kts) and drifted outside the DME (Distance Measuring Equipment) arc he has to fly. The arc is very clearly drawn on his approach chart. He must have flown this procedure at Islamabad a hundred times in his flying career. Why did he drift outside the arc and hit the hills this time killing everyone?



Distance from BBIA to the foot of Margalla Hills :- A mere 10 miles.

A pilot losing sight and losing situational awareness in high winds and low visibility while circling over an airport can lose control and the plane can be at the foot of Margalla Hills in a mere three minutes and at 3000 or 2600 feet pulling up would be impossible.

Here is a photo of the ill-fated AP-BJB:-







*Can we just throw out all conspiracies until the facts are clear?And since none of us is a qualified air crash investigator, it is pointless to put out your nonsense. The rescue workers are working in a really hard situation with dense forests and smoke rising from the debris which is making helicopter flights difficult as well. Please, just stop this-that nonsense, media-is-bad, why-is-shahid-masood giving lectures, etc. We can deal with that later.

Also, there are conspiracy theories of targeting the Presidency/Parliament, shooting down of the plane from an AA gun mounted on the Margallas are revolving around. I cannot emphasize how much I'd like people to avoid those.*

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## RescueRanger

Such a terrible incident, heart breaking sorrow of the families and the distressed loved ones. May allah grant the bereaved strength and the fallen his mercy and eternal peace.


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## Spring Onion

RescueRanger said:


> Such a terrible incident, heart breaking sorrow of the families and the distressed loved ones. May allah grant the bereaved strength and the fallen his mercy and eternal peace.



Its more difficult when you see people you know die in such accidents.


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## HAIDER

Problem started,during last minute re routing call from control tower cuz of extreme fog and rain.


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## BATMAN

Imran Khan said:


> thanks to army air force and resque teams at least some moroon never use words we have no quick responce after incedent



I just watched a vedio on Times of India and they were exactly stressing on this point, while one can hear the sounds of ambulance in background.

Below is the link for your reference.

Passenger plane crashes near Islamabad-News-Videos-The Times of India

Reactions: Like Like:
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## Zee-Gen

I don&#8217;t know how to express my feelings&#8230;&#8230;.on Tuesday, I had an interview and the person who took it was also in the plane&#8230;&#8230;.he was going back to capital&#8230;..I hardly talked with him for 10 minutes&#8230;&#8230;but will remember him always in my prayers&#8230;..may all departed souls rest in peace.......amen


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

Just returned from friend's house, his dad was captain in that flight.. Inna lilah he wa inna ilai he rajeoon...!!!
Its been quit a sad day for me .. !!!


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## DesiGuy

indeed, very sad.


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## Trisonics

History of crashes in commercial aviation show that it takes a huge loss of life to fix something already known or ignored, be it with the plane itself, the safety regulations, pilot training or the airports...really sad...RIP .


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## SekrutYakhni

H2O3C4Nitrogen said:


> Just returned from friend's house, his dad was captain in that flight.. Inna lilah he wa inna ilai he rajeoon...!!!
> Its been quit a sad day for me .. !!!



Indeed very tragic accident!
May God bless everyone who died!


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## Nishan

I send My Deep condolences to the victims families & to all Pakistani Brothers . . . Enna Llah wa Enna Elayh Raje'oun

Jordan, Amman, July 28 (Petra) -- His Majesty King Abdullah II on Wednesday sent a cable to Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari, condoling him over victims of an air crash near the Pakistani capital Islam Abad.
The King expressed his deep sorrow and heartfelt condolences over the tragedy.


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## Ahmad

when will the black box inormation be analyzed and annouced to the public?


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## Zeluvaa

Inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi rajeoon

My heart goes out to the family and friends of those who died in this crash. I cannot even imagine the pain they must be going through. May Allah help them in these sad times. 

RIP to the dead.


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## Spring Onion

*America stands with Pakistan after plane crash: Obama *

WASHINGTON: US President Barack Obama offered his &#8220;deepest condolences&#8221; on Wednesday to families and friends of the 152 people killed in a plane crash near Islamabad, which included two Americans.

*&#8220;Our thoughts and prayers go out to all of those touched by this horrible accident,&#8221; Obama said in a statement.

&#8220;The American people stand with the people of Pakistan in this moment of tragedy.&#8221;
*
The passenger jet crashed earlier Wednesday into densely wooded hills outside Islamabad, killing everyone on board in the worst crash involving a Pakistani airliner in 18 years. -AFP

----------

Thank you Obama and people of America. Much appreciated


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## skybolt




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## skybolt

*Official Statement by Airbus [Airblue flight ED 202]*

Airblue flight ED 202 accident in Islamabad (Issue I) 
28 July 2010

Airbus regrets to confirm that an Airbus A321 operated by airblue was involved in an accident shortly after 9.45 am local time. The aircraft was operating a scheduled service, Flight ED 202, from Karachi to Islamabad, Pakistan. 

The aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, initially delivered from the production line in 2000. The aircraft is leased to airblue in January 2006. The aircraft had accumulated approximately 34,000 flight hours in some 13,500 flights. It was powered by IAE V2533 engines. At this time no further factual information is available. 

Airbus is not part of the accident investigation commission but will provide all necessary support to the BEA as well as to the authorities who will be responsible for the accident investigation. 

The A321 is a twin-engine single-aisle seating 185 passengers in a standard two-class configuration. The first A321 entered service in January 1994. To date, some 610 A321s are in service with nearly 70 operators. The entire fleet has accumulated some 10.6 million flight hours in some 5.8 million flights. The A321 is part of the A320 Family which has achieved over 50 million take offs and landings since the first model, the A320, entered commercial service in 1988. Today, more than 4,300 aircraft are in operations to some 310 customers and operators worldwide. 

Airbus will make further factual information available as soon as the details have been confirmed. 

The concerns and sympathy of the Airbus employees go to the families, friends and loved ones affected by the accident of Flight ED 202. 

* * * 

For further information, please contact: 
AIRBUS - MEDIA RELATIONS
Tel.: (33) 05.61.93.10.00


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## skybolt

*
TECHNICAL BACKGROUNDER*

*A321*
July 2010

*Description*
The Airbus A321 is a twin-engine aircraft, which typically carries 185 passengers in a two-class, single-aisle cabin on medium range routes of up to 2,350 nautical miles (4,400km). It can carry a maximum of 220 passengers in a high-density seating configuration. It also provides under-floor freight capacity for up to 10 industry-standard LD3-46W cargo containers.

The A321 is designed to be operated by two pilots and a crew of cabin attendants whose number varies according to the operators seating configuration. It has a typical cruise speed of Mach 0.78 and a maximum operating speed of Mach 0.82.

The maximum take-off weight for this aircraft type is 206,100lb (93.5 tonnes) and it can carry up to 56,500lbs (25.6 tonnes) in payload.

The A321 has a maximum fuel capacity of 7,840 US Gallons (29,680 litres). Fuel tanks for all versions are located in the wing and in the wing centre section. The A321 can also be fitted with up to two additional centre tanks in the aft cargo department.

*Engines*
The A321 can be equipped with either CFM International CFM56-5B or International Aero Engines IAE V2500 engines, which generate between 27,000lb and 33,000lbs (120-148kN) of thrust.

*History*
Airbus launched the A321 programme in November 1989. After its first flight on 11 March 1993, four aircraft participated in a rigorous flight test and airworthiness certification programme during which they accumulated 1,000 flight hours in 400 flights. The A321 was delivered for the first time in January 1994.

*Where the A321 is made*
A321 major sub-assemblies are produced in France, Germany, the UK and Spain. Final assembly takes place in Hamburg, northern Germany. Interiors are also equipped at Airbuss Hamburg facility where customers own choice of seats, galleys, toilets, furnishings and other equipment are installed.


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## notsuperstitious

Indian govt reaction

Ministry of External Affairs, India



> External Affairs Minister Shri S. M. Krishna has condoled the unfortunate loss of innocent lives in the tragic plane crash today, near Islamabad in Pakistan. In a message to his Pakistan counterpart, EAM conveyed deep condolences on behalf of the people and Government of India to the people and Government of Pakistan, especially to the bereaved families.


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB AirBlue Airbus A321-231 - cn 1218**
Operator History*

AP-BJB AirBlue Airbus A321-231 - cn 1218 - Planespotters.net Just Aviation


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB AirBlue Airbus A321-231 - MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218*
*AP-BJB (cn 1218) An evening arrival from Ankara. Caught with the beacon flashing, reflecting nicely underneath.
England, July 20, 2007*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) First photo of this one.
United Arab Emirates, February 3, 2007*





*AP-BJB AirBlue Airbus A321-231 - MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) Just in time at about 8.30pm, if you are lucky in midsummer you can catch these in good light at the end of the long flight from Karachi
England, June 24, 2010*




*AP-BJB AirBlue Airbus A321-231 - MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) Late evening arrival.
England, May 26, 2009*





*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) Taken at 20.37 local time. Sadly lost trying to land in Islamabad in bad weather 28/07/10. 152 onboard no survivors, RIP.
England, May 26, 2009*




*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) Sadly lost when the aircraft impacted mountaineous terrain near the airport of Islamabad on Jul 28th 2010. RIP
Manchester - England, July 12, 2008*




*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) EOS 400D EF100-400L. We waited all evening for this flight then just as the sun went down the flight arrived. It was worth the wait!
Manchester - England, August 4, 2007*




*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) Reverse thrust applied on arrival from Islamabad (via Ankara).
Manchester - England, July 18, 2007*




*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*AP-BJB (cn 1218) Operating a flight from Islamabad in Pakistan.
Manchester - England, July 20, 2007*




*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## Devil Soul




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## Devil Soul




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## Devil Soul




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## skybolt

*CRASH SCENE: Rescue workers searched for survivors after an Airblue jet carrying 152 people veered off course in monsoon rains and crashed near Islamabad, Pakistan, Wednesday, killing everyone on board. *


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## Devil Soul




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## Devil Soul




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## skybolt

Rescue workers search the wreckage at the site of the crash of an Airblue passenger plane on the outskirts of Islamabad

---------- Post added at 02:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:27 AM ----------






Officials at a public information centre at answer phones at the Benazir Bhutto International Airport after an Airblue passenger plane crashed on the outskirts of Islamabad.


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## skybolt

*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*This aircraft involved in the accident, registered under AP-BJB, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 1218, on 28 July 2010*


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## skybolt

*Reference Document on the Pakistan Crash*
Of course condolences to all affected by this crash; and of course, as with nearly all such disasters, it will take a while to figure out what actually occurred. For roundup of first reactions, see this Atlantic Wire item. But as a basic reference document, it's worth being aware of the info shown below. It is a scan, from an aviator in Pakistan, of a Jeppesen approach plate* for the airport in Islamabad where the crash occurred. This is the approach -- ILS DME Runway 30 -- the plane was reportedly attempting when it crashed.




What this shows and why it matters: 
- Nothing in and of itself. It's just a basic document for understanding the airport and one of its "instrument approaches," which planes would use to land in bad weather;

- It helps put in perspective one analysis in a Pakistani newspaper (also quoted in Atlantic Wire), which made it sound as if the pilots might have been doing something rash or unsafe with a "circling" landing. 
This analysis was:
If you are using runway 12** as it seems (the Murree road side) there is no ILS [instrument landing system]. The ILS is on runway 30 (the opposite side). So the procedure (which I never thought was safe) is you fly the ILS to 30 and then you break off and turn right and fly parallel to the Margalla hills and then turn back in and land on 12. It's not a circle but more of a race-track pattern. 

You may ask why not have the aircraft turn left rather than right towards the Margalla Hills. The reason is that on the left of runway 30 is Dhamial Air Base, GHQ and so on and as far as I remember that is all so-called "Restricted" airspace. You cannot fly over it. 

Final point, when you are flying parallel to the Margalla Hills, you are required to keep the airport on your left in sight. So I can visualize the captain in the left seat looking left. Maybe the [flight officer] was flying and craning his neck too. They just seem to have drifted into the Margalla Hills -- perhaps because of high winds. They lost what is called "Situational Awareness". Basically they did not know where they were.

Well, maybe. The bottom pane on the approach chart shows the "decision altitude," or "minimum descent altitude," for the airplane under different circumstances. Basically this is how close to the ground the airplane is allowed to get while relying strictly on instrument guidance. If the pilots cannot see the ground (or runway lights etc -- there are elaborate rules) by that point, they have to abort the approach and execute a "missed approach," also known as "going around," in which they climb away from the runway and then try again or head somewhere else. 

In the best circumstances, with the plane headed for a "straight-in" landing in the same direction as the approach, this ILS procedure would allow them to get within 309 feet of the ground purely on instrument guidance. But for a "circle to land," approach, in which the plane would intend to land in the opposite direction from the approach, the minimum descent altitude could be as high as 842 feet above the ground. It would be illegal to go any lower than that if they couldn't see.


In a "circling" approach, the airplane would descend from the southeast -- the lower right of the chart shown above -- and then, once the pilots saw the runway, fly parallel alongside it to the other end (upper left of chart), at which point they would turn around and land in a northwest-to-southeast direction. You do this when the instrument approach guidance works only in one direction, but the winds favor a landing the other way. 

On the one hand, this kind of landing is by definition more complicated than a "straight-in," with the runway right in front of you the whole time. On the other hand, the idea of flying alongside the runway in one direction ("downwind"), and then reversing course (turning to "base" and "final") to land in the opposite direction is a perfectly normal way to operate in good weather.*** And according to the rules for "circle to land," you can't attempt this kind of landing unless you have a clear view of the runway the whole time. Which makes it seem unlikely that the pilots would not have noticed if the plane were just drifting off to the side, into the hills. But for now that's just hypothesis too. For a discussion of other hypotheses, see the BBC here. 

Bad weather is ultimately responsible for most of what goes wrong in aviation.**** Fog or clouds that keep pilots from seeing the runway (the Polish airline tragedy), strong or gusty winds that complicate the process of touching down, icing in below-freezing clouds (Colgan in Buffalo), severe turbulence from thunderstorms (probably the Air France flight over the Atlantic), etc. From first reports of this incident, weather appears to have played a big part, but this is all tentative. For the moment, if you read about a "circling approach" being involved, look to this chart to understand what that means. 
___ 
* Jeppesen plates are proprietary and copyrighted, also, this is an out of date version of the plate -- thus my helpful photo-shopped addition of the "Not for Navigation" warnings! 

** Runways have numbers according to their compass direction. Runway 12, in this case, has a compass direction of 120 degrees -- roughly southeast. The runway number is the compass direction divided by 10. But since nearly all runways can be used in both directions, the same strip of asphalt has two names, depending on which way you're heading. These opposite directions are of course separated by 180 compass degrees (half of a 360 degree circle). If you're headed southeast on the runway at Islamabad, you are on Runway 12. If you're on that exact same runway but headed the other way, the compass direction is 300 degrees (northwest), and you are on Runway 30. And if you are taxiing at the Islamabad airport, you would see markers pointing toward "Runway 12/30" -- the same strip of asphalt, with two different names. 

*** This is known as "flying the pattern" and is how everyone learns to fly. Big airliners typically don't have to do this - though at Dulles airport, in particular, when the winds are from the north, I've often been on airliners that had to head far south ("downwind,") and then make two right turns ("base" and "final") before landing headed north. 

**** For another time: the different genesis of commercial-airline versus private-pilot accidents, with flat-out pilot error playing a far larger part in the latter case. But there too weather makes a huge difference.


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## Al-zakir

Oh man!! So sad. My condolences to the family of deceased. May Allah bless them to heaven. 

*"inna lillahi wa inna ilaihi'raji'oon"!*


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## Patriot

Well I must say that I am quite surprised that CIA/Blackwater/ISI has been blamed for this yet by the Mullahs Company.


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## sparklingway

*Shocked and numbed
*​
KRAKOW: *One couple  Aisha and Mohammad  on the AirBlue flight were on their way to attend a funeral in Islamabad and had left their children with family in Karachi.*

What will I tell their children now, cried Aishas brother Akhtar while waiting at the airport for news.

Wednesdays plane crash sent shock waves through Karachi. It seemed as if everyone knew by at least six degrees of separation one person affected by the tragedy. The pain of the relatives stuck in Karachi was doubled by the lack of timely information and their inability to get to Islamabad quick enough.

Karachi lost six brainy young men and women who were part of the Youth Parliament Pakistan (YPP) and had gone to attend a parliamentary session in the capital. They were Hassan Javed Khan, Syeda Rabab Zehra Naqvi, Prem Chand, Bilal Jamaee, Owais bin Laiq and Syed Arsalan Ahmad.

Syed Shan-e-Hussain Naqvi, who was supposed to be on the flight, told The Express Tribune that a distant cousin and fellow youth parliamentarian Rabab Naqvi was a straight-A student.
I was so shocked. Rababs father called me up and started crying. My daughter is gone, he said.

Hussain said she was one of the best delegates in the youth parliament and was an all-rounder. In the last session, she led a no-confidence motion against the youth parliaments prime minister. The government changed and there had to be a new premier.
That new prime minister was Hassan Javed Khan. He was on the plane and was to join Oxford University this fall.

Rababs father Muhammad Murtaza had spent time with her the evening before. She was really happy last night, he said. She kept on reading till late at night and came to me and asked to pray for her. I want to go to Islamabad and see my daughter or her body myself.

Bagwan Das, the first cousin of Prem Chand, who hailed from Sukkur told The Express Tribune that he had dropped his cousin at the airport at 7 am. I had just reached home when we saw the news on the TV and rushed back to the airport.

According to Bagwan Das he was the only educated person among their group of friends. We could not sleep all the night, Chand was telling me stories of Islamabad and parliament and we went to the seashore to enjoy the weather, he said.

Ten members of the Youth Parliament were supposed to board the flight, but only six did. Syed Shan-e-Hussain Naqvi had a confirmed seat on that plane, but decided in the morning not to go as he had to take care of some important meetings. My parents did not even know that I had not taken the flight because I spent the night at my friends house, he said. I called to tell my parents that I didnt go, they could not believe it. My mother just couldnt stop crying.
Hussain was attending phone calls since Wednesday morning as his name was on the flight passenger list released to the media.

*People are congratulating me on being alive. But my friends are dead. I dont know whether to be happy or sad.
*
Former federal sports minister Mir Mehran Khan Bijrani and his son Salman had confirmed seats but got late and missed the flight. Mehrans son Irfan said that when they reached the airport, the flight had just taken off. So they took the next flight to Lahore, instead.

Saeed Minhas, was one of the 10 people who had reserved a ticket but didnt go. The Gulshan-e-Iqbal resident said that the family have arranged for sadaqa and khairat in his name. My wife called me crying, he said. I asked why, and she said the plane had crashed.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 29th, 2010.

---------- Post added at 04:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:24 AM ----------

*Ace footballer was going to Berkeley
*

KARACHI: *A University of California, Berkeley student from Karachi Grammar School was among the victims of the plane crash on Wednesday. Nineteen-year-old Misha Dawood was on her way to attend the National Women Football Championship being held in Islamabad.*

&#8220;It was really hard, too hard to convince my team to get on with the game and play without their Maradona,&#8221; said Diya football club&#8217;s owner Saadia Sheikh while talking to The Express Tribune. &#8220;The girls didn&#8217;t want to play but I told them that the only way we can pay our tribute to Misha is by winning the match.&#8221;
Diya Football Club&#8217;s match against Punjab FC went ahead on Wednesday. Misha had been on her way to catch up with the team that had left for the championship on July 24. She took the first flight of the day to be there before the match started at 5 pm at Jinnah Stadium.

Misha was an excellent athlete, with a smile on her face and a friendly attitude; she was a treat to have around, Sheikh said. The mid-fielder was known as the team&#8217;s Maradona and was very excited about playing in the championship matches when Sheikh spoke to her on the phone two days ago.
The athletic captain of her school house when she attended Karachi Grammar School, Misha had just completed her first year at the University of California, Berkeley. However, she had a special place for football in her life, she would fly to Pakistan to meet her family in Karachi and participate with Diya Club at the national level every year.

She became a regular with the club in 2008, when her hattrick against Sindh Soccerites led her team to win 6-0 in the Inter-Club Women&#8217;s Football Championship.

Diya FC went on to win against the defending champion Punjab FC 2-0 and cruised into the quarter final, but without her, dedicating the win to her name.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 29th, 2010


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## khanz

R.I.P to the dead 

inshallah more survivors will be found

Reactions: Like Like:
1


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## SparklingCrescent

Man this is really sad. May Allah grant them Heaven Inshallah.

We found survivors? Then we'll have an update on what happened soon.


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## BATMAN

i saw on TV Kaira was asked about to share the recording of conversation betwen control tower and pilot but he ignored this question by answering different.
There were news of black box being found but later denied by PPP minister.

PPP govt. is not very clear on the issue..... as usuall every dpt. is helping in his individual capacity and volantarily but not on advise of political people neither any single person or dpt. is announced as incharge.


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## sparklingway

khanz said:


> inshallah more survivors will be found





SwatiTheBrave1 said:


> We found survivors? Then we'll have an update on what happened soon.



There are no survivors. Perhaps you got confused with the news reports. Some people did not board the plane.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

BATMAN said:


> i saw on TV Kaira was asked about to share the recording of conversation betwen control tower and pilot but he ignored this question by answering different.
> There were news of black box being found but later denied by PPP minister.
> 
> PPP govt. is not very clear on the issue..... as usuall every dpt. is helping in his individual capacity and volantarily but not on advise of political people neither any single person or dpt. is announced as incharge.



Whats government hiding ????
Black box are design in away that they give out signal for their location so how come its not found yet ???? the weather was not so bad and how come such an experience captain ignored Control tower warnings, was he under gun point , was it a Pakistan 9/11 type of attempt and was there some intelligence station on that hill were the plane crashed. 

Just using my wild imagination.


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## AZADPAKISTAN2009

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> Whats government hiding ????
> Black box are design in away that they give out signal for their location so how come its not found yet ???? the weather was not so bad and how come such an experience captain ignored Control tower warnings, was he under gun point , was it a Pakistan 9/11 type of attempt and was there some intelligence station on that hill were the plan crashed.
> 
> Just using my wild imagination.



I agree - blackboxes are easy to find thru GPS signal


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## Coltsfan

> Just using my wild imagination.



Pretttyyyyyy wild imagination I should say.......


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## sparklingway

*Chaotic situation at Karachi airport
*​
Thursday, July 29, 2010
Experts say CAA has no set-up to deal with emergencies

By Saad Hasan

KARACHI: The chaos at the Karachi International Airport after the Airblue flight crash on Wednesday exposed the glaring loopholes in the emergency response set-up of the aviation business in Pakistan.

As the grief-stricken relatives of the deceased poured in, a few employees of the private airline manning the small makeshift counter, frantically tried to control the situation. People who had come to learn about the fate of the passengers had to return with just hopes that their relatives, friends or loved ones could be among the few survivors. But as reports trickled in from Islamabad, it became clear that none of the 152 unfortunate people onboard was alive. A man, worried about the fate of his brother, cried at one corner of the airport. In another corner, stood a shell-shocked person wondering what could have happened to the airplane which had departed just hours before.

He was right there. I had come to the airport to drop him at 6:30 in the morning, said Saad Akhter, pointing to the departure door. Please pray that he is among those who have made it alive and is only injured, Akhter said about his relative. Airblue officials asked me to wait at the airport. He was to be accommodated on a flight that would take the relatives of the victims to Islamabad in the evening.

Senior CAA officials were nowhere at the airport. There was no one from the regulator to console the anxious relatives and friends or give them vital information. Most people were asked to go home after being given an Islamabad-based inquiry number.

Syed Naseem Ahmed, an aircraft accident specialist, said the CAA had no system in place to deal with a panic situation. Most of the time, the CAA relies on the Army and the air force for the search and rescue operation, which is not wrong but then what about its role as commercial aviation regulator?

The Airblue crash is the first in Pakistans aviation history involving a major private airline, he said. Since 1953, there have been 20 major accidents in which more than 800 people have lost their lives, he said. The last major accident happened on July 10, 2006, when a PIA Fokker crashed in Multan, killing all 45 people onboard. Accidents happen everywhere in the world. But if you look at the frequency of flights in Pakistan, the ratio of accidents is quite high.

He said that the most disturbing aspect of accident investigations in the country was that the public never gets to find out what really brought down the aircraft. It is true that error on the part of pilots is behind 80 percent of accidents. However, the investigation report must be made public, Naseem Ahmed said. The investigation report into the Fokker crash was never released, in complete violation of the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) rules, he said. 

CAA Deputy Director General Air Vice Marshal Riaz-ul-Haq said that relatives were entitled to know the cause of the accident. However, the CAA could not immediately state the reasons of the crash, he said. We have formed an investigation team headed by Air Commodore Abdul Hamid. It will take some time for it to prepare the report and it is up to the government if it wants to release it. 

He said that flying a plane over the Margalla Hills was not risky as there were more dangerous landing terrains in other countries. But flying is a dangerous business. We need to ensure this does not happen again. 

Pilots say that a cloudy atmosphere around a hilly area always makes it difficult to manoeuvre an aircraft. But in the Airblue crash, an electronic system that guides the pilot in such a situation was not of much use.

Captain Suhail Baluch, the President of Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (PALPA), said that CAA had no procedure to instrumentally guide the pilot to land on a particular runway at Islamabad airport. Pilots depend on a visual approach to descend.

Khalid Iqbal adds from Islamabad: *Meanwhile, about 130 relatives of the unfortunate passengers reached Benazir Bhutto International Airport from Karachi through a PIA plane on government expenses. 

The relatives were in a state of deep shock and grief and some were wailing on the occasion They will receive bodies of the deceased in Islamabad after DNA tests. 

Some of the angry relatives of the passengers pelted stones at the airport building and raised anti-Airblue slogans on the occasion. They also raised slogans against the management for not giving information of their dead relatives.

The Airport Security Force (ASF) and police officials controlled the situation. According to Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) sources, some bodies have been recognised. The sources informed The News that the bodies of the recognised persons would be handed over to their relatives late Wednesday night or early Thursday.
*


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## sparklingway

*Pressure fault caused crash: CAA official
*​Thursday, July 29, 2010

By Khalid Iqbal

ISLAMABAD: *A bigwig of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) told The News on condition of anonymity that the Airblue plane crashed on Wednesday because of pressure fault in the plane. The pressure disc or plate of plane was not working perfectly.*

The CAA often warns technical staff of airlines to change pressure discs to boom pressure but technical staff takes this matter non-seriously, he said. He said that weather was not the reason of plane crash because other flights were taking off and landing perfectly. Concerned pilot could not handle the plane with dead pressure and it fell down, he said. 

The second reason is that pilot was not used to the route from Karachi to Islamabad. He went from Karachi to Turkey and was handling this route from Karachi to Islamabad perhaps for the first time. There are two black boxes of planes. One black box is for Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) and second black box handles the main control room. First black box tells concerned CAA main faults in planes and other technical problems before taking off while the second black box is in continuous contact with control room for getting green signals. Second black box related with Control Room continuously gives green signals by the plane for landing but concerned pilot was circling rather than landing, he said. 

Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Deputy Director (General) Air Vice Marshal Riaz-ul-Haq has given statement on Geo TV that they could not find out the exact reason of plane crash. We have formed a 6-member investigation committee to probe the matter. A plane could crash due to several reasons but we would find out exact reason of crash after final report of investigation committee, he said.


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## sur

sparklingway said:


> ...ISLAMABAD: *A bigwig of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) told The News on condition of anonymity that the Airblue plane crashed on Wednesday because of &#8216;pressure&#8217; fault in the plane. The pressure disc or plate of plane was not working perfectly.*
> ...


& how did that "big-wig" come to know this when black-box is *NOT* yet found... apparently.

Geo TV(The News) also found out a Kasab in a Pakistani village but that proved to be a fabrication.... Let's be careful with news coming out of this portal.


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## Luftwaffe

Even in the deepest seas and oceans blackbox are found. 
Now i can imagine millions of dollars will be spent I mean looted in the name of investigation (first loan).

Nothing can be said with assurity at this point unless complete investigations takes place.


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## sparklingway

*Flight crew:-*


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## ejaz007

*46 bodies of crash victims identified* 
Updated at: 0430 PST, Thursday, July 29, 2010

ISLAMABAD: At least 46 bodies of plane crash victims have been identified and handed the same over to their heirs while many charred bodies are still kept at PIMS Hospital whose identification will be determined through DNA tests, Geo News reported Thursday morning.

Federal Interior Minister Abdul Rehman Malik said DNA tests would be conducted today.

Meanwhile, Chief Commissioner Islamabad said it will take one complete week at least to complete DNA tests.

Earlier, Pakistani health officials said Wednesday they would have to use DNA tests to identify charred bodies plucked from the wreckage of an airliner that crashed into hills outside Islamabad.

"Most of the dead bodies are in pieces, only body parts, some of them badly burnt... these can only be identified through DNA," Mahmood Jamal, chief of the Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences (PIMS) told reporters.

Officials said rescue workers had collected body parts and pieces of charred flesh into bags.

"Some 300 body bags, 40 blankets and 10 bundles of rope have been air dropped at the crash site," said the national disaster management authority. 

46 bodies of crash victims identified


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## ejaz007

*Black box recovered from the area* 
Updated at: 1847 PST, Wednesday, July 28, 2010

ISLAMABAD: The black box of the ill-fated flight ED 202 has been recovered from the area, Geo News reported Wednesday.

An airliner carrying 152 people crashed in a ball of flames Wednesday into densely wooded hills outside Islamabad amid heavy rain and poor visibility, killing everyone on board.

Rescue officials said pieces of charred flesh and body parts were littered around the smouldering wreckage, partially buried on a remote hillside, in the deadliest crash involving a Pakistani passenger jet in 18 years.

Useful information regarding the incident was expected from the record. It is important to mention here that there was no facility in Pakistan to decode the information from the box. 

Black box recovered from the area


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## ejaz007

*Investigators to probe possibilities of sabotage, hijacking*
*
* Govt forms two separate teams to determine crash cause*

By Tahir Niaz

ISLAMABAD: The government on Wednesday formed two separate investigation teams to determine the actual cause of the Airblue flights crash.

The first team, led by Federal Investigation Agency (FIA) Director General Zafarullah Khan, has been assigned the task of investigating the possibility of sabotage.

According to official sources, the plane remained in the no-fly zone for quite some time and also flew over the diplomatic enclave, the Parliament House and the Presidency before crashing into Margalla Hills.

The sources said the team would scrutinise the credentials of the passengers on the flight, keeping in mind the possibility that a suspect might have tried to use the plane as a flying bomb against any sensitive installation.

According to eyewitnesses, before it crashed, the plane circled over the F-5 and F-6 sectors of the federal capital, which are close to the Presidency, the PM House, the diplomatic enclave and the Parliament House.

The investigation team will also look into the possibility of hijacking of the crashed plane. 

The investigation team will look into the possibility whether the plane, flying away from the defined route, was to be used as part of an act of sabotage, the sources said. 

The government has formed another six-member team led by Air Commodore Khawaja Abdul Majeed, the Civil Aviation Authority Safety Investigation Board president, to investigate the crash.

The investigation team started its work immediately with special focus on human factors, technical fault and weather conditions.

Examination of the planes black box will also help the investigators in ascertaining the real cause of the crash and what was going on in the cockpit of the plane before the crash. 

The team will also record the statements of eyewitnesses, who saw the plane before it crashed. Both the committees will present their findings to the federal government.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Gin ka Pakistan

The plane was in no fly zone, any PAF scramble ?


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## ejaz007

*Question-marks rise on air defence capability*

By Tahir Niaz

ISLAMABAD: The entrance of the passenger airliner into a no-fly zone and the failure of the authorities concerned to react for intercepting the plane puts a question mark on the capability of the air defence system of the country.

When asked to comment as to why the authorities concerned did not intercept the plane, as it drifted towards the no-fly zone despite repeated warnings from the CAA radar, which monitored the movement of the plane, the concerned authorities of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) and the civil defence organisations did not respond to the question directly. Requesting anonymity, all the three representatives of the said organisations said, It was not the case (sabotage act) as you think. It was the countrys plane, it did not come from across the border. 

The authorities said that it was not a threat rather it (plane) lost its route in the bad weather. But the question about the timely intercepting of the plane in the no-fly zone remained unanswered. But the defence sources told Daily Times that the countrys air defence had very clear SOPs regarding the security of the Kahuta Nuclear Plant. We have clear instructions for intercepting anything having a possibility of reaching the nuclear plant, the source said.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## ejaz007

*Plane had made emergency landing on July 7*

KARACHI: The passenger plane that met a dreadful fate in Margalla Hills near Islamabad, killing all 152 people onboard, had made an emergency landing at the Karachi airport on July 7 due to a technical fault while heading toward Islamabad, sources told Daily Times.

An inquiry team headed by air commodore Abdul Majid formed to probe into the crash would especially focus on this incident during its investigation, the sources added. The plane was carrying 256 passengers back then, and had developed a fault in one of its engine, the sources said. They added that this information was never made public but simply announced that there was a technical glitch in the plane. faraz khan

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan


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## Gin ka Pakistan

Coltsfan said:


> Pretttyyyyyy wild imagination I should say.......



Not any more read ^^^^ post 313


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## SparklingCrescent

Can someone explain what this Black Box is please.


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## SparklingCrescent

*Black box of crashed plane in Pakistan to be sent to U.S. for decodinig: experts*

ISLAMABAD, July 28 (Xinhua) -- Local media quoted experts as saying that the black box of the plane that crashed in the Margalla hills in the northeast part of the Pakistani capital Islamabad Wednesday morning will be sent to the United States for decoding *if it was found* (But some sources already claim they've found it ). They also said that it will take two to three months before the report can come out.

Earlier Wednesday, at about 10:00 am (local time), an airbus 320 carrying 152 people aboard crashed minutes before it was supposed to land at the Islamabad airport, killing all the people aboard reportedly including at least 20 women and seven children as well as two Amierians and a Somalian.

The Islamabad-bound plane took off at the Karachi airport at about 9:43 am Wednesday. The plane with the flight number ED-202 was on its way from Turkey to the Pakistani capital Islamabad via Karachi. The crashed plane belonged to a local private airliner named Airblue.

The plane which was manufactured in 2000 was rented by the Pakistani airliner in 2006, reported local media.


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## MZUBAIR




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## igoogle

SwatiTheBrave1 said:


> Can someone explain what this Black Box is please.



Here you go: Flight data recorder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## MZUBAIR

Is there any chance of Terrorism?


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## fawwaxs

*Hearsay made crash tragedy more painful *

ISLAMABAD: Airblue&#8217;s crash was tragedy enough but the stream of unchecked information and unguarded comments over television channels made it worse, especially for the families of the 152 victims.

Desperate relatives rushed to hospitals after learning from the channels that some passengers of the ill-fated Flight ED-202 had survived and were being brought to hospitals.

They vacillated between hope and despair there for hours and returned home more distressed as none had.

Misguided and misled by the news on television channels, especially by the statements of two cabinet ministers that five passengers had survived the crash, relatives had been darting between Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences (Pims) hospital in Sector G-8, Rescue 1122 offices and Polyclinic in G-6.

Sobbing relatives made their way to emergency rooms, catching hold of doctors, medical staff and gate keepers, desperate to find out how many had been brought in.

&#8220;News on TV said that they are bringing the injured to Polyclinic,&#8221; said Mohammad Farhan, whose father Malik M. Yusaf was on board the Flight ED-202.

Farhan had been standing outside emergency ward for four hours often turning his head towards the corner as if waiting for an ambulance to turn in.

&#8220;All the lines are busy. Nobody is giving correct information. I don&#8217;t even know who has the correct information,&#8221; he said. Farhan had spoken to his father who was in the plane just before take off around 7:50am.

Many stood in denial, with expressions of disbelief on their faces and a few completely lacking reaction.

Amjad Yaqoob Chaudhry and Mohammad Arshad Chaudhry, who introduced themselves as cousins of the first captain, Pervez Iqbal Chaudhry, also stood outside emergency ward after hearing on news channels that rescuers had airlifted the body of the pilot and transported it to the Polyclinic.

&#8220;There is no coordination or a higher officer to tell us what has happened. Relatives and friends have been running from pillar to post, trying to find out where the dead are being taken after being airlifted. It will take a lot of load off,&#8221; said Amjad Yaqoob Chaudhry.

Pyar Ali, an MSc student at the Karachi University, among others was not so lucky either. &#8220;He was visiting to attend a wedding in the family,&#8221; said his cousin, Ihsanullah Baig.

Ihsanullah said his only source of information was the news channels and those too were misreporting.

Later in the evening, Edhi and Rescue 1122 ambulances were parked outside the Army Aviation helipad, where nine dead bodies had been transported in army helicopters.

Some friends of the passengers waited desperately to find names of the dead flown in.

Misha Daood, an aspiring young football player, was also on board the Flight ED-202 that met with the worst air tragedy. &#8220;Misha was flying in from the US to participate in a national football championship,&#8221; said Misha&#8217;s team manager Rukhsar Rashid and her team player Tahira Ishaq.

&#8220;Misha Daood loved football and played as centre mid fielder for the Diya Women Club,&#8221; said Rukhsar Rashid.

But they too were turned away in disappointment and left shaken when National Disaster Management Authority Chairman Lt-Gen (retired) Naveed Ahmed said that none on board the Flight ED-202 survived and that it was not their job to identify bodies.

&#8220;Civil administration is leading the search and rescue operations. We are also playing our part and have some of the best pilots flying in to recover the dead. Although, the rains made our job extremely difficult and we had to abort MI-17 and Bell flights, Col Khalid Amir Rana and Lt-Col Safdar Tiwana are the same two exceptional flyers who flew the rescue flight on Nanga Parbat and are now on duty in Lama and Alouette helicopter. But no reports of any survivors has been received,&#8221; said Gen Ahmed, who supervised all operations.


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## yangtomous

pray for my bros,God bless you.


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## notsuperstitious

sur said:


> Geo TV(The News) also found out a Kasab in a Pakistani village but that proved to be a fabrication.... Let's be careful with news coming out of this portal.



Pls keep zaid hamid out of this thread. Thanks.


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## igoogle

This is one of the stupidest news item I have seen a day after a crash:



> *Question-marks rise on air defence capability*
> 
> By Tahir Niaz
> 
> ISLAMABAD: The entrance of the passenger airliner into a no-fly zone and the failure of the authorities concerned to react for intercepting the plane puts a question mark on the capability of the air defence system of the country.
> 
> When asked to comment as to why the authorities concerned did not intercept the plane, as it drifted towards the no-fly zone despite repeated warnings from the CAA radar, which monitored the movement of the plane, the concerned authorities of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) and the civil defence organisations did not respond to the question directly. Requesting anonymity, all the three representatives of the said organisations said, &#8220;It was not the case (sabotage act) as you think. It was the country&#8217;s plane, it did not come from across the border&#8221;.
> 
> The authorities said that it was not a threat rather it (plane) lost its route in the bad weather. But the question about the timely intercepting of the plane in the no-fly zone remained unanswered. But the defence sources told Daily Times that the country&#8217;s air defence had very clear SOPs regarding the security of the Kahuta Nuclear Plant. &#8220;We have clear instructions for intercepting anything having a possibility of reaching the nuclear plant,&#8221; the source said.
> 
> 
> Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan



Now what does this mean...the forces should start shooting down the civilian planes...just because it was off its flight path ...and was in trouble.


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## sparklingway

igoogle said:


> This is one of the stupidest news item I have seen a day after a crash:
> 
> Now what does this mean...the forces should start shooting down the civilian planes...just because it was off its flight path ...and was in trouble.



The question has been remained by many since there is no report as to what they officials deputed at the AA guns for protection of the restricted zone did.

I know it's a controversial and insensitive question, but will be raised.


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## H2O3C4Nitrogen

sparklingway said:


> *Flight crew:-*



The one with the beard was my friend's dad. Hes in Isl. Acc to him his body is still not yet found and the cockpit was completely destroyed ...


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## sparklingway

H2O3C4Nitrogen said:


> The one with the beard was my friend's dad. Hes in Isl. Acc to him his body is still not yet found and the cockpit was completely destroyed ...



Fatigue due to longer working hours is being complained by the PALPA. I don't mean to be insensitive but this what a newspaper reported:-



> Investigations conducted by this scribe reveal that Capt Pervaiz Iqbal Chaudhry had been grounded about two months back and was admitted to the Aga Khan Hospital. He had uncontrollable diabetes, hypertension and cardiac problems. He was a very religious man and it could be possible that he did not rest well before the flight because of Shab-e-Barat.



I hope you don't take some offence but rather the fact that people are complaining as to whether the justification of lack of experienced pilots was good enough to raise maximum age from 60 to 62 and later to 65 years.

I reiterate that I hope you don't take it as offence.


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## Patriot

igoogle said:


> This is one of the stupidest news item I have seen a day after a crash:
> 
> 
> 
> Now what does this mean...the forces should start shooting down the civilian planes...just because it was off its flight path ...and was in trouble.


Well ridiculous thing to say.PAF cannot afford to take off every time it happens.I am sure if it was some Air India Plane or some private cargo plane PAF would have intercepted it but i don't think Air Blue Jet posed any threat to PAF or PA and of course PA cannot intercept a jet nor can they shot down every jet coming towards GHQ by anti air craft guns.Nuclear Plant is a totally different anything going near it would be intercepted but the jet was quite low so it is possible that it was not on PAF radar where as if fighter of enemy fly that low PAF Observeration Units will pick it up and intercept will begin.


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## mshoaib61




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## into the wild

if i was a fortune teller, i would have said that flying in 202 will be good luck charm for zerdari and CO, kamm tamam!!


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## mshoaib61




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## into the wild

MZUBAIR said:


> Is there any chance of Terrorism?



hahahahahahahahahaha

so, any bearded person will be stereotyped and troubled in this way now, what a shameful act, too much brainwashing, looks like american bribe is being paid back in full, 

how he was hijacking the plane while remaining on ground???

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## mehru

MZUBAIR said:


> Is there any chance of Terrorism?



I seriously doubt that. I guess this arrested person is a thief.
There was a news item yesterday that some thieves were stealing belongings of dead people and they were arrested because of that.

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## JonAsad

mehru said:


> I seriously doubt that. I guess this arrested person is a thief.
> There was a news item yesterday that some thieves were stealing belongings of dead people and they were arrested because of that.



He is just an innocent guy with a beard, and thats his *mistake*, he should have shaved his beard and then gone to the crash site to help in the ongoing rescue work.

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## into the wild

SwatiTheBrave1 said:


> Can someone explain what this Black Box is please.



emagine a tape recorder which is played during the flight and has a secure covering to protect it from any damage from any accident or plane crash, it provides some inflight pilot speech and the backgroud, voices helps analyse the reason of crash..


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## Moin91

Inna Lillah wa Inna Alaih Raji'on

very very sad incident... RIP all the victims....


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## Patriot

jonasad said:


> He is just an innocent guy with a beard, and thats his *mistake*, he should have shaved his beard and then gone to the crash site to help in the ongoing rescue work.


Paranoid much?There were several people at crash site with full beard doing rescue work.I agree with Mehru most likely thieves.Even during Earthquake there were several people looting items.

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## JonAsad

Patriot said:


> *Paranoid much*?There were several people at crash site with full beard doing rescue work.I agree with Mehru most likely thieves.Even during Earthquake there were several people looting items.



Yeah the crash and loss of life has taken toll on me., hope to get well soon. Cheers


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## Peregrine

Nobody body even thought about Kahuta, how did the pilot try to land near kahuta? that doesn't make sense, God knows what happened, given the fact that government & concerned authorities will never let the reality surface the best we can do is pray that " may the departed souls rest in peace"


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## fawwaxs

*Ground controllers last contact with the ill fated flight *

ISLAMABAD: Initial investigations into the crash of the ill-fated Airblue Air Bus 321 suggest that the aircraft had established its first contact with the Islamabad Air Traffic Control at around 09:01 am.

The pilot had asked for a visual approach to land at Runway 120 of the Benazir Bhutto International Airport when a thick cover of clouds was at about 1,500 feet above sea level on the twin cities of Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

The Benazir Bhutto International Airport has two landing approaches: Runway 120 and Runway 300.

Sources say the Instrument of Landing (ILS) was not available on Runway 120 and was only available on Runway 300.


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## fawwaxs

*Footballer&#8217;s dedication put her on flight *

Nineteen-year-old Misha, who played for Diya Women&#8217;s Football Club, was flying out to the capital to join her team for matches of the sixth National Women&#8217;s Football Champion-ship.


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## fawwaxs




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## fawwaxs




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## fawwaxs




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## Peregrine

this thread is giving me depression

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## Huda

fawwaxs said:


>


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## into the wild

if we just put zardari and CO for next airblue flight to crash!!!, good omen for the country.... why it is always, poor people die and people like zardari survive?????


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## Peregrine

into the wild said:


> if we just put zardari and CO for next airblue flight to crash!!!, good omen for the country.... why it is always, poor people die and people like zardari survive?????


you dragged the words out of my mouth.

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## Mujahid

Aftermath and rescue efforts


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## Faizan Qadri

into the wild said:


> if we just put zardari and CO for next airblue flight to crash!!!, good omen for the country.... why it is always, poor people die and people like zardari survive?????



But zia-ul-haq was more kh***s than zardari killed by severe crash of C-130


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## BATMAN

sparklingway said:


> The question has been remained by many since there is no report as to *what they officials deputed at the AA guns for protection of the restricted zone did.
> *
> I know it's a controversial and insensitive question, but will be raised.



You just did!!!!!
a/c was not a UFO it flew from Karachi and all radars on the way knew it.
I also expect some radio next to A2A gun.... for re-confirmation purpose and how do you know there was any A2A gun around the point of crash.

Ever wonder why A2A gun were not fired at commercial jet in America during sept 11 terrorism?

I think trend is that PPP govt. in past has also organised terror activities to take away attention from their pro bharti acts.

I know it is a sensitive question but will be raised.

What most needed to be checked in this regard is if any one on plane was suspected or *any one at controll tower was hired by PPP govt.*

real issue is CAA should be kept out of this because i expect them to temper with black box.


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## Nav

Can some body get me on the list of passenger onbored?


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## fawwaxs

Sources in the Civil Aviation Authorities have revealed the last conversation between the pilot and the control tower.

Sources have said that the control tower issued an initial warning when the plane was getting out of the limits of the runway. The plane was travelling at nine point five nautical miles while it had to turn at five nautical miles.

Meanwhile the following conversation has bee disclosed as yet:

Control tower&#8217;s first warning: You are getting away from the runway.

Pilot&#8217;s response: We can see the runway.

Control tower&#8217;s second warning: Turn to your left immediately, you are heading towards Margalla Hills.

Pilot&#8217;s response: We can see that.

This was the last reply form the pilot and then the flight lost its contact with the control tower and soon after it crashed.


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## BATMAN

'SOURCES' This is not credible enough...
Govt. it self has zero credibility.... inquiry should be handed out to neutral body.


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## Time Assassin

RIP to the dead. Sympathy goes out to all the families who have lost loved ones.


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## SQ8

Some theories are coming through, And Pilot error is in 90&#37; of them.
apparently the pilot has fixation of the runway during his final turn. And in his attempt to stay below the cloud cover ended up misjudging his position and slammed into the mountains.


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## BATMAN

Intially, i also came to the same conclusion but the timing of this crash in backdrop of various political issues e.g. cameron remarks, followed by hamid karzai remarks, wiki leaks, fake degrees, denying various court rulings, issuing visa to 400 americans plus more.

Pilot error cannot force him to abondon landing attempt and than in followup run into a faraway hill.

Quite possible plane was kidnapped.... with the complicity of CAA.
Therefore scrutiny should start with appointments in CAA and CCTV record of Karachi airport.


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## SQ8

BATMAN said:


> Intially, i also came to the same conclusion but the timing of this crash in backdrop of various political issues e.g. cameron remarks, followed by hamid karzai remarks, wiki leaks, fake degrees, denying various court rulings, issuing visa to 400 americans plus more.
> 
> Pilot error cannot force him to abondon landing attempt and than in followup run into a faraway hill.
> 
> Quite possible plane was kidnapped.... with the complicity of CAA.
> Therefore scrutiny should start with appointments in CAA and CCTV record of Karachi airport.



Nope.. pilot error can do just that, Chaklala has only one runway (20) equipped with ILS, and that is on a northbound approach..
Now if there is another aircraft using that runway or for some other reason they shut it down.. the technique is for the pilot to shoot the ILS till he sees the airfield and reports to the tower that he is in sight..something that did happen. Once that is done.. he does what is called a circular final. Basically he breaks off at a 90 degree angle before the airfield to give himself separation and then makes a curved left handed approach to the other runway. Usually, in clear skies this maneuver is carried out well above the Margalla hills. In this case with bad weather the pilot decided to keep below the cloud base, however.. not only did he come too low.. he seemed to be fixated on keeping the runway in sight, since the aircraft is in continuous turn banking maybe 20 to 30 degrees, it gets fairly difficult for even the first-officer to spot anything meaningful out of the window.. and on this flight the FO was a nugget. So most likely he did not have a clue( and with such a senior pilot.. he would not dare exert an opinion). So by eyewitness accounts its plausible to think that the captain was too fixated on keeping the airfield in sight and in his effort to keep clear of the clouds went too low... made too far out a turn.. and simply plowed into the mountains.
Which is why you dont hear any May Day's or anything to the tower.
Also, what is surprising in this case is that the 321 is a very VERY safe jet, with almost everything included to prevent such mistakes, did the pilot not hear the Terrain avoidance system when he got too close? and considering that eye witness confirm the jet very very low over F-7.. the cockpit should have been blaring away warnings.. did he choose to ignore them??

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## BATMAN

> did the pilot not hear the Terrain avoidance system when he got too close? and considering that eye witness confirm the jet very very low over F-7.. the cockpit should have been blaring away warnings.. did he choose to ignore them??



This is a question needed to be answered.... what happened in the cockpit and why pilot went far enough..... was he getting extra instruction from control tower?



> another aircraft using that runway or for some other reason they shut it down..


This point also needed clarification, why other a/c was prioratised, which resulted in last moment abondoning of ill fated a/c on LAST moment?


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## SQ8

The other thread in aircraft crashes has a video on it, and makes my analysis invalid, apparently something very different happened.

However, as far as the prioritization is concerned its fairly normal, there was no emergency in the jet, it was in good shape and no medical emergency on board either. 
The landing procedure the pilot was told to take has been done hundreds of times and I myself now recall being in a similar landing procedure, its fairly SOP. What the pilot did .. is not.

Apparently the pilot chose to or misunderstood the instructions for a circling approach and made a right turn.. at 2600 feet.. all the way .. he did suddenly seem to climb to 3000 feet before impact.. so there was a warning and evasive maneuvers made. So rule out any conspiracies as far as the anyone on the aircraft are concerned.


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## XYON

I hope NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC Channel chooses this incident to be included on its superb show, AIR CRASH INVESTIGATIONS. This way the entire investigation will bear some credibility.

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## RescueRanger

I must say some of the photographers went out of their way to take pictures of human remains, even peeling away the white chadur... This is highly disgusting conduct and not something you would expect of professionals. 

Regarding the investigation, i hope it bears fruit and we discover the reason behind such a tragic event. I don't know much about aviation so the posts from Santro and others have been very helpful for me.

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## QADRI

really a sad event....

The Last Status Updated By Late Bilal Jamaee 
Of Youth Paliament who has Become a Victim of Plane Crash !! "Pakistan 
is a country of Greens but now, country wants some Red from Greens....."


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## Durrak

really sad 
we cant even imagine how dere families are feeling at thz moment


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## x_man

santro said:


> Nope.. pilot error can do just that, Chaklala has only one runway (20) equipped with ILS, and that is on a northbound approach..
> Now if there is another aircraft using that runway or for some other reason they shut it down.. the technique is for the pilot to shoot the ILS till he sees the airfield and reports to the tower that he is in sight..something that did happen. Once that is done.. he does what is called a circular final. Basically he breaks off at a 90 degree angle before the airfield to give himself separation and then makes a curved left handed approach to the other runway. Usually, in clear skies this maneuver is carried out well above the Margalla hills. In this case with bad weather the pilot decided to keep below the cloud base, however.. not only did he come too low.. he seemed to be fixated on keeping the runway in sight, since the aircraft is in continuous turn banking maybe 20 to 30 degrees, it gets fairly difficult for even the first-officer to spot anything meaningful out of the window.. and on this flight the FO was a nugget. So most likely he did not have a clue( and with such a senior pilot.. he would not dare exert an opinion).
> Also, what is surprising in this case is that the 321 is a very VERY safe jet, with almost everything included to prevent such mistakes, did the pilot not hear the Terrain avoidance system when he got too close? and considering that eye witness confirm the jet very very low over F-7.. the cockpit should have been blaring away warnings.. did he choose to ignore them??



ISLAMABD has only one runway with the biggest disadvantage that it hasnt got any parallel taxi track. The stack loads of planes that we generally see on many other international airports where planes are landing behind another in short span, is NOT possible at Islamabd airport. 







When *runway 30* is in use ( that most of the time is), after landing the big airliners go to the end of runway...then they back track from there and continue taxi back while remaining on the main runway and clear via Alpha (A) taxi track....once they are clear , only then the other aircraft can land...From landing , then taxi back all the way to A link, takes a lot of time ....it becomes a real pain in butt during heavy traffic periods....imagine you are number 4 in the sequence...you have to wait for 20 minutes....Had there been a parallel runway , they aircrafts could vacate the runway a minute after landing..Making runway available for the succeeding traffic.....It is another reason that we need a new airport with better infrastructure and improved runway layout.....






When there is excessive tailwind for runway 30, then the *Runway 12* is used....For runway 12 landings, the pilot still comes for runway 30 and breaks off to right at point A...Once at point B, he turns left to parallel himself with the runway while keeping runway in sight all the time...When at point C, a 90 left turn is executed and short of point D , again a left turn and the pilot aligns his aircraft with the runway 12 and makes the landing......after landing, he goes till the end of runway, makes a clockwise turn back and clears the runway via a Alpha link....




BATMAN said:


> Intially, i also came to the same conclusion but the timing of this crash in backdrop of various political issues e.g. cameron remarks, followed by hamid karzai remarks, wiki leaks, fake degrees, denying various court rulings, issuing visa to 400 americans plus more.




I dont think that there is any international or national conspiracy involved in this crash . Till now it looks a case of CFIT (controlled flight into terrain). Questions still loom that,

Why aircraft deviated so much from its course? 

Why did the aircraft descend below the approach parameters?

The pilots had to fly the prescribed pattern while keeping the runway in sight all the time. In case they lose sight of runway, then they were supposed to break off the approach and climb to safe altitude or else divert to alternate airfield, Lahore in this case. 

Were the pilots not visual with the runway? If not, then why they deviated from approach?

What were the pressures that did not let the Captain to decide to divert to Lahore? Why he pressed on despite deteriorated conditions at Islamabad.

Did captain ignore the GPWS ( ground proximity warning system) or was it unserviceable from the start ?

There are lot of questions that comes to ones mind. More than black box, i think it will be CVR ( cockpit voice recorder) that will help to answer many questions....

What were Captain and First officer discussing in cockpit with each other ?

What was Captains response to ATCs instructions?

Did First officer warn/ advised Captain about losing the visual contact with runway ?

Were all instructions deliberately ignored by Captain ?

Till the time we dont have the CVR conversation, no one can be sure that what was going on in the cockpit minutes before impact. Till then we can all assume whatever we know in our capacity....But one thing is for sure that no one could have seen it comming. The aircraft was likely in clouds when the impact happend.

Allah may have mercy on all the departed souls.

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## Xeric

x_man said:


> Registration AP-BJB...the Airbus we lost today.... This aircraft was originally delivered in 2000, leased to airblue in 2006, 34,000 hours of total flying time with 13,500 flights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reporters at GEO TV are morons...they are just trying to twist the fact and trying to bring ANOs in and just trying to confuse masses with their gibberish reporting....
> 
> The crew was fresh...The above Airbus Registration AP-BJB came back to Karachi from Dubai this morning with no technical problems.....Captain Pervez and FO Muntajib who had a full nights rest, took over this aircraft for Khi  Isb trip....So to say that flight crew did not had rest or they violated the rules regarding rest is not right..... God bless their souls



You are right. Just moments after the crash some reporter of Geo came up with the ANO crap and tried to put all the blame on the CAA and party. And then there was chairman PALPA. i still remember MD PIA saying, "these (PALPA) people dont even have an iota of shame that they would spin out politics (to their benefit) even on such a huge tragedy."

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## BATMAN

> There are lot of questions that comes to ones mind. More than black box, i think it will be CVR ( cockpit voice recorder) that will help to answer many questions....
> 
> What were Captain and First officer discussing in cockpit with each other ?
> 
> What was Captains response to ATCs instructions?
> 
> Did First officer warn/ advised Captain about losing the visual contact with runway ?
> 
> Were all instructions deliberately ignored by Captain ?



And to this point PPP govt. is hidding the facts....no voice recorder and no black box.

Question: i understand what the data recorders are but why govt. need to send the black box abroad?
Is it because only certified companies are allowed to down load it for the reason of tempering protection?


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## into the wild

what a beautiful place margalla is btw!!!!

sad news in a beautiful place


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## into the wild

chintu said:


> Hello everybody,
> First of all I would like to tell you that I am quite a frequent visitor of PDF. I like to read all the topics that are posted here. For the past 20-30 days I became a member of PDF and I was banned seven times. All I did was replying to those people who disgraced india, Hinduism and hindus. I am not at all posting this post out of frustration. I will speak only the truth.
> 
> So here are my observations about PDF, Pakistanis and islam:
> 
> 1.	*Moderators and admins of PDF are highly communal*. They dont ban their own fellow Pakistani muslims even if they post highly deterioratory remarks against india, hindus and Hinduism. I was enraged and gave them befitting replies though in a civilized manner.
> *A word of advice to mods and admins: Give a fair treatment to everybody. Your current behaviour speaks volume about your credibility. If you dont want Indians to be a part of PDF then frankly say so. You call yourself a musalmaan then show some eemaan at least.*
> 
> 2.	*Our Pakistani friends are so naïve. It appears that either they dont know the truth at all or simply dont want to accept the truth. India is not your enemy at all.* In recent years it is forced to do some activities that destabilize Pakistan. WHY?? Because it has now realised that it should play its enemys own dirty game to defeat it. This policy is necessary for its survival. Let Pakistan taste its own medicine.
> 
> 3.	*Our Pakistani members post some highly biased articles that are based on various conspiracy theories and have no credibility at all and they feed their imaginations with it.*
> *Why do you think that suddenly the entire world equates Pakistan with terror?? *There must be some reasons behind it. Some of the world can be mad but the entire world cannot be mad. What do you people think??
> 
> 4.	Now-a-days our world is blessed with internet. *Why cant Pakistanis clear their doubt on various issues on the internet? Rather than posting illogical posts on PDF they can put internet on much better use by clearing their doubts on various conspiracy theories that sprout in their mind from a neutral source.*
> 
> 5.	*Pakistanis are a victim of general zia-ul-haqs hate curriculum taught in their schools and madarsas.* Your syllabus is filled with hateful and deterioratory remarks about india, hindus and Hinduism. You people have access to internet now. You should clear your doubts from a neutral source. Pakistani govt. has put the ban various sites for precisely this reason and not for the reasons given by them. They fear that the availability of truth will confuse their current generation and they will begin asking question over Pakistan govt.s policies against india.
> 
> 
> 6.	*Pakistanis are highly misinformed about india.* Yes there is poverty , lack of clean drinking water, ****** toilets; but we are fast improving. You should see the UN report that india is removing poverty at a great speed. Our population is great thats why number of poor looks great on papers but if you compare this stat in percentage of population then this figure is better explained.
> 
> 7.	*Pakistanis easily speak foul about hindus and Hinduism.* But they themselves turn blind eye on the current state of crises in islam. Teachings of islam are highly misinterpreted. These maulvis and mullas spread wrong interpretations of islam. They do not encourage to ask questions about islam. All the answer is what if I am praying and I fart?? types of questions.
> 
> 
> 8.	*Pakistanis are obsessed with the Saudis and Turks. Have these nations stood along with you even once in times of need?? You talk about Chinese as your best mate. China is a shrewd country, it is only using you. You people are so blinded by these short term benefits that it is harming you in longer run.* If Saudis are the leaders of islam then why dont they lead the Islamic world in so called *holy war *?? Why do they give charity to terror organisations and let poor and ignorant muslims die in this *holy war* and they themselves live comfortably in their cosy homes.
> 
> 9.	*About this so called Kashmir problem, why dont you people refer from a neutral source to know about the history of this problem and not your history books?* The king was a hindu and majority of the population was muslim. This was the precise reason why he asked for time. Had he wanted to join india, he would have joined immediately and might not asked for time. Kashmir would have joined Pakistan eventually but Pakistanis were impatient, they sent armed group to forcefully annex Kashmir and this resulted in king of Kashmir to agree to join india. Had india wanted to annex Kashmir then she would have send its forces much before Pakistanis and you might not be able to illegally occupy parts of Kashmir. And if you people love your Kashmir so much then why give askai chin to china? And also why the issue of Kashmir not raised upto early 1980s? Pakistan suddenly realised the power of proxy war and begin destabilizing india to check her growth. This is also the reason why Chinese support you. You people are doing their job.
> 
> 
> 10.	*Terrorism has become an organised sector in Pakistan just like service sector in india and manufacturing sector in china.* All the poor, unemployed, brainwashed youth are send to fight holy war. life is so much cheap in pakistan.
> 
> 11.	*People, especially young generation, of Kashmir , are unemployed and they dont have a vision of future for themselves. Thats why , in frustration, they indulge in stuffs like stone pelting on security forces for a mere payment is 100 rupees. *And when chance of employment comes the same people are seen standing in lines to join armed forces. Indian troops were forced to carry slow genocide to save Kashmir and rightly so. It meant that slowly kiss all the young men so that there is nobody left to protest. There is nothing wrong in this, every country does this. No point getting enraged.
> 
> 
> 12.	*Wake up Pakistanis, india is not your enemy.* It just want the current state of Kashmir to be made permanent. It is not even asking to return pakistan occupied Kashmir. This issue is ony kept alive because it ensures smooth running of terror sector and some people fill their pockets with money and also ensures the importance of the army is always there and they get more money out of budget.
> 
> 13.	Muslims have no right to abuse any religion for they shall be abused in return.
> 
> 
> 14.	*Islam is a barbaric religion. Teachings of islam spread intolerance.*
> 
> 15.	*The shadow of satanic religion of islam has covered the entire world.* The world is truly standing on the brink of war against the evil of islam.
> 
> 
> 16.	*Muslims cannot be a part of civil society*. They want to cut themselves from the mainstreams. That's why they want to carve out a separate nation from every nation.
> 
> 17.	*Pakistan was created only because of the greed of power by muslim leaders and also by Jinnah.* There was absolutely no other reason. Nehru war the mass leader and post of prime minister was to be offered to him and not Jinnah. Jinnah sensed this and together along with other religious groups he put forward the demand of creation of state of Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 18.	*Pakistan must realise that mixing religion with everything is harming them. *Religion should be left alone for personal lives and not with general matters because practical approach is much better in handling them.
> 
> *WAKE UP PAKISTANIS. YOU HAVE LONG KEPT YOUR EYES CLOSED FOR TRUTH. NOW THE TIME IS HIGH TO OPEN YOUR EYES AND EMBRACE THE TRUTH FOR YOUR COUNTRY IS SELF EMPLODING.
> WAKE UP!!!*



what a fcuking spammer of BR forum

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## SQ8

xeric thanks for the visuals on the landing pattern.. exactly what I was trying to explain.


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## ehsanm1

Hello guys I'm new and barely login to the forums but today, I found out those two U.S. Citizens who died in the crash were my dad's former boss' sister and her son who were somewhere from California,USA .Sadly, Former boss was also in that crash. May Allah forgive them and grant them Jannat. He was a really nice person and the owner of Hoffman Company.


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## JonAsad

into the wild said:


> what a fcuking spammer of BR forum



sm one shud return them the favor


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## Bhim

ehsanm1 said:


> Hello guys I'm new and barely login to the forums but today, I found out those two U.S. Citizens who died in the crash were my dad's former boss' sister and her son who were somewhere from California,USA .Sadly, Former boss was also in that crash. May Allah forgive them and grant them Jannat. He was a really nice person and the owner of Hoffman Company.




Ohhhh, Sad..My heart felt condolences to the departed souls.
It was due to poor visibility that the plane crashed, this is the time to realize how God is great.


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## Gin ka Pakistan

x_man said:


> Had there been a parallel runway , they aircrafts could vacate the runway a minute after landing..Making runway available for the succeeding traffic.....It is another reason that we need a new airport with better infrastructure and improved runway layout.....



*Is the new Islamabad project dead or on dead pace and who is the mafia which is opposing the new Air Port. * 
How long this out dated Air Port will be used for Military and civil use with ever increasing traffic.


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## BATMAN

As per Musharraf plans airport was suppose to be operational in 2009.
But, at the moment focus of PPP gang is various judicial references and most tough the ghost of fake degrees.
Even Babar Awan's (foreign) degree is fake, only those are save who used sindh institutions for forgery.
All state and american money is being funeled in to judiciary and bar councils, both ways covertly and overtly.
I expect iftikhar ch. to be millioniare in few weeks and american passport for whole family, another self exile in making.


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## sparklingway

Gin ka Pakistan said:


> *Is the new Islamabad project dead or on dead pace and who is the mafia which is opposing the new Air Port. *
> How long this out dated Air Port will be used for Military and civil use with ever increasing traffic.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...islamabad-airport-progress-2.html#post1030993


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## Gin ka Pakistan

sparklingway said:


> http://www.defence.pk/forums/econom...islamabad-airport-progress-2.html#post1030993



The project is at least two years behind and killing of Brigadier (r) Masood Salam shows the fighting behind the seen.


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## ejaz007

*Possible factors that brought Airblue plane down* 
Friday, July 30, 2010
By Shakil Shaikh

ISLAMABAD: A probe into the horrifying crash of Airblues Airbus into the Margalla hills, which killed all 152 persons on board, has been started to find out all possible factors that contributed to the disastrous accident.

Already dubbed as one of the worst accidents in the aviation history of Pakistan, experts in the aviation industry told The News on Thursday that it was not possible that a single factor resulted in this crash of the jet into the Margalla hills, located on the northern-most side of the federal capital.

There is a set standard that in case the pilot loses visual contact of airfield, he is supposed to adopt misapproach procedures, said one aviation expert. Some concerned people said that the plane coming from Karachi was supposed to land from Gujar Khan side i.e. 30 to Benazir Bhuto International Airport but the Air Traffic Control (ATC) had reportedly directed the professional and experienced pilot Parvaiz Iqbal Chaudhry to adopt misapporach procedure by circling the plane from 30 to 12 (from the side of Satellite Town).

However, the pilot took a longer circle, which took the plane outside the mandatory 5 miles vicinity, and it crashed into the Margalla hills, though some people say that the final exchange of communication would be revealed after the recovery of the Black Box (original colour of the Black Box is orange). Aviation experts, however, count six to seven reasons which might have contributed towards the Airbus crash: 

*Management Pressure*

It is defined that the management of the airlines often pressurise pilots not to divert the plane, though the diversion plan of a flight is always there in case the plane fails to land at its destination. In this case, the pilot did not opt for diverting the flight and adopted misapproach procedure to land from 12 (Satellite Town side) by circling the jet while trying to keep the visual contact with the airfield. 

*Age Factor*

The pilot was around 64 years of age and had joined Airblue, a private operator, after his retirement from PIA in 2006. He was considered a professional and highly experienced pilot. But experts say that benchmarks of age should always been seen in toto, and not in isolation. This includes alertness of the pilot at that age, his physical fitness in all respects and strict monitoring of the performance of the pilot by operators.

*Weather Factor*

Much weightage is being given to this factor as weather was reported cloudy with heavy showers on Wednesday. The investigators will have to take into consideration whether there was opposite direction wind, whether the clouds were as low as 200 ft, whether the visibility was marginal or not. 

Some say that pilots know that they would never take their flight into Cb Clouds (Cumulonimbus Clouds). Such clouds are extremely dangerous and hazardous for flying objects, as such clouds carry thunderstorms with downdrafts, which is so severe that it creates flash floods when rain-water starts coming down heavily. They also contain heavy lightning. They say if a plane comes under such downdrafts, it often starts coming down with pressure and there is no chance of survival except a miracle. The Cb clouds with windshear play havoc with flying objects. The known example of an aircrash of a plane (under such conditions) took place at Dallas (the US) some 20 years back, as Cb Clouds are tall and very large in size with mushroom shape with as high as 75,000 ft from the ground and pilots are supposed to refrain from entering such clouds. These clouds often result into slant visibility and the pilot might have lost his visual contact with the airfield.

*Fatigue*

The fatigue factor also often plays havoc with a normal flight and pilots have to take proper rest and stay alert before piloting a plane and in this regard experts profusely criticise change of Air Navigation Order from IIIA to IV on 20 April, 2010, and it was major mistake on the part of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), which did not evolve a consensus but released the ANO-IV dictatorially. This ANO-IV deals with flight and duty time limitation, rest period and several other important matters.

*Maintenance Factor*

It deals with serviceability of the aircraft and its machine, and normally the flight is allowed after taking clearance from the concerned engineers. 

*Loading of Aircraft*

It deals with load on the aircraft, including fuel and luggage, etc. There are different repercussions of loading and, if not done properly, it shifts the CG (centre of gravity) which would prove dangerous because of nose down and nose up positions during the flight.

Not a single factor results in such accidents but several factors contribute to such disasters, said an expert, who described pilot as the last line of defence.

The investigators will look into the wreckage of the plane, engine and other parts of the plane, and it would demonstrate the conditions of the machine, so is would be easy to make an assessment about the maintenance of the aircraft. 

The Black Box will reveal about 80 to 90 percent of the facts which led to the crash of the plane, said an expert, who raised the question as to why the ATC allowed the pilot to take the plane towards the Margalla terrain. The ATC should have commanded the pilot not to proceed towards the hilly terrain, he added, and his command had to be accepted by the pilot.

Some guess that there might also be a possibility of inevitable accident as once the pilot assessed that the aircraft would meet the accident, he himself took the plane towards the hills in a bid to save the damage to be caused had the plane crashed over a building or populated area of the capital city. We cannot say with any definite word, but every possibility would be looked into before concluding the matter, said a senior official in the CAA. 

Possible factors that brought Airblue plane down


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## fawwaxs

*Thirty one air crash victims&#8217; bodies arrive in Karachi *

KARACHI: The bodies of 31 victims of the Margalla Hills air crash brought to the city on Thursday were handed over to grieving relatives and friends amid heart-rending scenes at the Cargo Complex of the Quaid-i-Azam International Airport.



The anxious and mourning relatives, who had thronged the Cargo Complex since morning, broke into tears as they saw the coffins being wheeled out to ambulances.

Airblue spokesman Raheel Ahmed told Dawn that the remains of 31 of the 71 identified victims had so far been brought to the city.

He said that DNA samples from the family members of 46 victims had been obtained to help identify the remaining passengers and crew.


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## Mujahid

These young Pakistanis [profiles below] from Sindh Province were traveling to Islamabad to join young Pakistanis gathered in the
federal capital from all over Pakistan. They represented the aspirations of most Pakistanis in a new and reformed
political system and a foreign policy free of foreign interference and aligned with the national interests
of Pakistan and its people. 
_PakNationalists.com_


*Pakistan mourns the death of Youth Parliament Members on-board Airblue Flight ED 202*


These young Pakistanis [profiles below] from Sindh Province were traveling to Islamabad to join young Pakistanis gathered in the
federal capital from all over Pakistan. They represented the aspirations of most Pakistanis in a new and reformed
political system and a foreign policy free of foreign interference and aligned with the national interests
of Pakistan and its people. 
Pakistan mourns the death of Youth Parliament Members on-board Airblue Flight ED 202

Islamabad, July 28; PILDAT expresses deepest sorrow at the sad demise of 6 Members of Youth Parliament Pakistan, including the Youth Prime Minister, on board the airblue flight ED 202 that has crashed this morning.

PILDAT serves as the secretariat of the Youth Parliament Pakistan. The 6 members of Youth Parliament on board the flight were travelling from Karachi to join the Youth Parliament session, final session of this batch, that began in Islamabad today.

The PILDAT management and team, its board of directors, board of advisors and the Youth Parliament Steering Committee mourn the untimely and tragic death of the Youth Parliament members. We are joined in mourning by the alumni of Youth Parliament from across Pakistan as well as the various supporters of the Youth Parliament project. Our prayers and support goes to the families of our members in this time of loss.

The names and profiles of those members who we believe were on board the flight include:

1. Mr. Hassan Javed Khan, (YP39-SINDH02; Blue) Youth Prime Minister






Mr. Hassan Javed hails from Hyderabad, Sindh. He was born on October 30, 1984 and is currently working for the Royal Bank of Scotland, Karachi as a Team Head for Client Relationships for the Royal Preferred Banking (RPB) Department. He has completed his MSc in Investment and Finance with Distinction from Queen Mary, University of London, UK. During his stay there, he participated in University of London Squash League. Mr. Javed secured Gold medals at Hyderabad B.I.S.E Inter-school Squash Tournament consecutively in 1998 & 1999. He believes in an independent and sovereign Foreign Policy, uniform Educational System and strong Justice System.


2. Ms. Syeda Rabab Zehra Naqvi, (YP41-SINDH04; Blue) Youth Information Minister





Syeda Rabab Zehra Naqvi hails from Karachi and was born on May 11, 1989. Having completed her GCE O Levels from the Mama Parsi School and GCE A Levels from the Karachi Grammar School, she is currently pursuing a BSc in Economics and Finance as an external student of the London School of Economics and Political Sciences (LSE). During her school years, she held various leadership positions, including memberships in various student councils. Currently, she is an elected office bearer of the Students' Union in her college. Ms Naqvi has interned at various institutions, including banks, media firms and NGOs, and plans to follow a career in national politics once her studies are completed.


3. Mr. Prem Chand, (YP38-SINDH01; Blue), Youth Minister for Culture, Sports and Youth Affairs





Mr. Prem Chand hails from Sanghar, Sindh. He was born on April 03, 1984 and is studying for a Masters in Social Work at the University of Sindh. He is a social work student and performs numerous activities in this regard.


4. Mr. Bilal Jamaee, (YP44-SINDH07; Green) Youth Shadow Minister for Information






Mr. Bilal Jamaee was born on June 14, 1987 in Karachi. He is a 2nd Year student for Mass Communication at the University Of Karachi and is the General Secretary of 'Bazm-e-Adab'. He has participated in numerous Debating Competitions and written a number of stories for children's magazines. Mr. Jamee has worked for two years at Elite Pulishers as Asst. Manager. Mr. Bilal Jamaee was part of the recent Youth Parliament Study Visit to UK that took place from July 5-9, 2010.


5. Mr. Owais bin Laiq (YP45-SINDH08; Green), Member Youth Parliament Standing Committee on Information






Mr. Owais Bin Laiq hails from Karachi and was born on June 20, 1988. Following the completion of his GCE O and A Levels, he joined the Institute of Business Administration (IBA) for a bachelor degree in business administration. Passionately engaged in the field of media, he is currently the manager of the Media and Publication Society at IBA and has also won various contests, such as the National Samaa TV Documentary Competition. Mr. Laiq also notably interned at International Business Machine (IBM). Possessing a keen interest in traveling, he has visited India, Iran, UAE, South Africa and Zimbabwe.


6. Syed Arsalan Ahmad (YP42-SINDH05; Blue), Member Youth Parliament Standing Committee on Information






Syed Arsalan Ahmed hails from Karachi and was born on February 27, 1988. He completed his Matriculation with A-1 grade and his Intermediate in Pre-Engineering with an A grade. He then went on to complete his Bachelors in Textile Engineering from SFDAC University. Mr. Arsalan has been actively involved in debates both in his college and university life. He has won several medals while representing his university in national debating events on several occasions.


Introductory Booklet Youth Parliament Pakistan 2009-10


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## sparklingway

> *Prem Chand&#8217;s coffin was marked as &#8220;Kafir&#8221;*, which the parliamentarians &#8220;strongly condemned&#8221;. &#8220;He called himself a social worker. No person has the right to decide who goes to heaven or hell,&#8221; said one teary-eyed parliamentarian.



Yes, the bigots couldn't leave a dead person as well. They had to write "Kafir" on a coffin that has nothing but severed body parts of whatever was left of a bright and honest Pakistani.

I advocate humanitarian values but whoever did this shameful act deserves no humane treatment.

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## ejaz007

That idiot should have simple written the name of the person on the coffin. That would have been enough.


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## fawwaxs

*Probe into Margalla crash begins *

ISLAMABAD: The seven-member investigative team has started the probe into the plane crash incident in Margalla Hills Islamabad, sources said sources.

The team is headed by the President Safety Investigation Board of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Air Commodore Khwaja M. Majeed.

The team has collected some evidence and sent it to the laboratory for examination while the record of last contact between pilot and Islamabad control tower has also been sealed.

The seven-member team included experts of technical and operational field and also a representative of Airblue.

The DIG operation Islamabad said that more dead bodies or body parts feared to be under plane debris.

Agencies Add: Monsoon rain and clouds on Thursday hampered the search for the black box of a Pakistani airliner that slammed into hilly woodland killing all 152 people on board, the nation&#8217;s worst aviation disaster.

The Airblue passenger jet crashed in a ball of flames, disintegrating in the forested Margalla Hills overlooking the Pakistani capital in heavy rain and poor visibility on Wednesday while trying to land after flying from Karachi.

Pakistan observed a day of mourning, but questions focused increasingly on why the pilot had been flying the Airbus 321 so low over the craggy hills in a restricted flight zone while making his approach to land.

Helicopters were grounded because of poor visibility, rain and clouds, and the black box had yet to be located, officials said.

Investigators hope the flight data recorder will give clues to the fate of the 10-year-old Airbus, which was piloted by an experienced captain.

Officials called off the search for human remains and civil aviation teams left the crash site around dusk.

&#8220;So far we could not find the black box, heavy rain continued at the crash site, the terrain is also very slippery,&#8221; Civil Aviation Authority spokesman Pervez George told AFP.

He could not say if the search would resume on Friday.

&#8220;It all depends on the weather. We are not sure when the weather will allow us to resume the search,&#8221; he said.

At least one relative arrived at the base camp Thursday saying he wanted to look for the remains of his brother, but was turned away.

&#8220;We told him the terrain is difficult and the weather bad. Even rescue teams find it difficult to reach the crash site. We also told him the remains had been taken to the hospital. He then left,&#8221; said Islamabad city administration official Rawal Khan.

Two Americans, an Austrian-born businessman, five children and two babies were among the 152 people on board flight ED 202.

Junaid Ameen, head of Pakistan&#8217;s Civil Aviation Authority, called on rescue teams not to touch the wreckage, which could be invaluable in determining whether a technical fault or bad weather was to blame.

A team from European company Airbus was to assist with the investigation, he said, refusing to speculate on reports that air traffic control may have asked the pilot to divert.

&#8220;It is the prerogative of the pilot to decide, keeping the situation in view. The air traffic controller can only advise him.

&#8220;The incident shows that the pilot was in an emergency-like situation that led him to enter the restricted area,&#8221; he said, refusing to comment further.

The plane broke apart in a gorge between two hills, scattering debris across hillsides enveloped in cloud and located some distance from the nearest road.

It was the worst aviation tragedy on Pakistani soil in history, piling more woes on a country on the frontline of the war on Al-Qaeda and where militant bombers have killed more than 3,570 people in the past three years.

Pakistani flags flew at half mast from all public buildings out of respect for the dead. Businesses took out advertisements in the national press to honour colleagues who were killed or to express condolences.

US President Barack Obama offered his &#8220;deepest condolences&#8221;. UN chief Ban Ki-moon said he was &#8220;deeply saddened&#8221; and China&#8217;s President Hu Jintao also conveyed his condolences.

Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira told reporters that the remains of 115 bodies had been recovered and that it could take up to a week to identify the most charred remains, while urging relatives to be patient.

&#8220;It is a tragedy, a great tragedy. The cause of the crash is a technical issue and anything said about the cause at this time is speculation. Everything will be clear after the inquiry,&#8221; Kaira said.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik told reporters that 66 bodies had been handed over to relatives so far. Authorities set up an office to collect blood samples from relatives in order to identify remains with DNA tests.

Airblue, one of Pakistan&#8217;s most respected airlines, was tight-lipped about any possible technical fault or pilot error.

Reports that the pilot was told to take another route were mere speculation, company spokesman Raheel Ahmad told AFP.

The only deadlier civilian plane crash involving a Pakistani jet occurred when a PIA Airbus A300 crashed into a cloud-covered hillside on approach to the Nepalese capital Kathmandu in 1992, killing 167 people. &#8212;Agencies


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## fawwaxs




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## fawwaxs

*Search for black box continues at Margalla hills *

ISLAMABAD: Investigators spent a third day searching Friday for the black box of a Pakistani jet that crashed into Islamabad's hills, killing all 152 people on board, officials said.

The search for human remains has been called off and most bodies handed over to families for burial, police said.

The Airblue passenger jet crashed in a ball of fire in the forested Margalla Hills overlooking the Pakistani capital in heavy rain and poor visibility on Wednesday, while trying to land after flying from Karachi.

&#8220;We have recovered remains of all the dead bodies. Now our focus is on the investigation and we are searching for any clue which can help us,&#8221; senior Islamabad police official Bani Amin told AFP.

Monsoon rains hampered the search for two days, but aviation experts and other investigators resumed work after the weather cleared on Friday.

Investigators are focusing on the black box as the flight data recorder will provide valuable clues as to why the 10-year-old Airbus 321, which was piloted by an experienced captain, came down.

&#8220;Today the investigators are going to the hilltop. The priority is the black box and any other technical clue from the wreckage,&#8221; Ramzan Sajid, spokesman for the Islamabad city administration official, told AFP.

Airblue, one of Pakistan's most respected airlines, has been tight-lipped about any possible technical fault or pilot error.

Reports that the pilot was told to take another route were mere speculation, company spokesman Raheel Ahmad told AFP.

The only deadlier civilian plane crash involving a Pakistani jet occurred when a PIA Airbus A300 crashed into a cloud-covered hillside on approach to the Nepalese capital Kathmandu in 1992, killing 167 people. &#8211; AFP


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## Jade

Very sad. May the dead RIP


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## fatman17

DATE:29/07/10

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

*Pakistani aircraft that crashed was doing circling approach to runway *

By Leithen Francis

The Airblue Airbus A321 that crashed yesterday, killing all 152 people on board, was doing a circling approach to runway 12 at Islamabad's Benazir Bhutto International Airport.

The "aircraft was [doing] a visual circling approach to land at runway 12, it was not in a holding pattern", Airblue CEO, Shahid Khaqan Abbasi, says in an email to ATI.

He says: "The weather at the time was foggy with low clouds."

"The crash site is north of the 30-12 runway at ISB [Islamabad airport] and about 10 kilometres [away] in the Margalla mountains".



Shahid says the pilot in command of the A321, local registration AP-BJB, was Capt Pervez Iqbal Chaudhary who had over 25,000hr of flying experience.

Pervez as well as the aircraft's five other crew and 146 passengers were all killed in the crash. The accident occurred yesterday at around 10:00hr local time.

The aircraft had left Karachi airport earlier that morning and was performing a scheduled passenger service to Islamabad.

Initial reports quoted the country's interior minister, Rehman Malik, as saying there were five survivors but his assessment later proved to be in correct.

The country's prime minister, Yousef Raza Gilani, has declared today (29 July) a day of national mourning.

The last time that Pakistan had a fatal crash, involving a passenger commercial aircraft, was in 2006 when a Pakistan International Airlines Fokker F27 crashed and killed 45 people.

Airblue is a privately-owned carrier and the country's second-largest airline. Besides the aircraft that crashed, the airline also has two other A321s as well as one Airbus A320 and two Airbus A319s, says Flightglobal's ACAS database.

Airbus says the aircraft that crashed was built in the year 2000 and had accumulated approximately 34,000 flight hours in some 13,500 flights.

ACAS says International Lease Finance is the aircraft's owner. Airbus says Airblue started leasing it in January 2006.


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## huzihaidao12

I know this sad news from the Chinese news, condolences,
to my pakistan friends.

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## Mujahid




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## sparklingway

*Compensation claims seen making matters worse for Airblue*​Victims family to get Rs0.5m under local law, Rs12.8m as per intl

Saturday, July 31, 2010
By Saad Hasan

KARACHI: Airblue will have to pay a compensation of Rs4.2 million to each family of the Margalla plane crash victim under the Civil Aviation Rules, but this amount would jump to Rs12.8 million each if the matter is settled in line with international conventions, aviation experts and lawyers said on Friday.

Civil Aviation Authority officials and lawyers said compensating families could become a knotty issue because of contradictions in Pakistans air-travel insurance laws.

*Under the Civil Aviation rules, the compensation for a plane crash victim is decided according to the Hague Protocol of 1955, which guarantees 250,000 francs as insurance claim, they said.*

*What makes the matter complicated is the Carriage by Air Act 2010, tabled in the national assembly on June 28 this year, which says that in case a passenger loses life in a domestic flight accident, the family gets Rs500,000, 8.4 time less than the amount given under the Hague Protocol.*

Airblue is likely to follow the Carriage by Air Act to get away by paying just half-a-million rupees per passenger, Yahya Adeel, a CAA lawyer said.

The tabled act has been derived from the Montreal Convention, which Pakistan signed in 1999. The compensation amount set by this convention is much higher than the Hague Protocol, the lawyer added.

*Montreal was never implemented in the country. And now it has been made part of the Carriage by Air Act but the compensation amount for domestic passengers at Rs500,000 remains controversial.*

Montreal says that passengers be given 100,000 SDRs (special drawing rights) in damages, the lawyer said, adding that this totals to Rs12.8 million at the current value. Each SDR is equal to 1.51 US dollars.

Insurance companies will argue that Montreal covers international passengers only. But CAA law treats a domestic and an international passenger alike so there canít be any discrimination.

There were 152 people, including six crew members, onboard the Airbus 321, which crashed into Margalla Hills on July 28. The cause of the accident is still under investigation.

*As per Hague Protocol, Airblue will have to pay a total compensation of Rs613 million, but under the Montreal Convention this amount is about Rs1.8 billion.*

*A lawyer, who settled disputes for PIA Fokker crash in Multan in 2006, said Airblue would find itself in trouble if it fails to pacify the victimsí families immediately.*

*PIA had to pay Rs2 million to each family against its earlier commitment of Rs500,000 on fears of litigation, which could make the matter worse for the national carrier as per the Montreal Convention.*

They couldnít escape it. The underwriters had to negotiate and take the families into confidence. Families were made to realise that the airline was paying much more than what the rules prescribe.

The lawyer said that PIA knew that if the families of victims took plea of the international conventions, the national carrier would end up paying hundreds of millions of rupees more.

The General Manager Marketing of Airblue, Raheel Ahmed, did not give details about insurance of aircraft and passengers. We will cover the loss of lives as per rules and regulations of the government. I canít tell you the size of total package. But the insurance company is already on ground and working for the arrangement.

Industry officials say that EFU General Insurance is the local insurer and has many international reinsurance firms to back its claims, including Lloyds of London.

EFU will have to bear just 5 percent of the insurance claim and rest of the amount would be covered by the re-insurance companies, an industry source said.

Ahmed said that it has become increasingly difficult for the airline to deal with the situation as lot of relatives and friends are demanding compensation and itís hard to establish the genuine complainant.

In one of the cases, three family members of a victim approached me for compensation but they are undecided about who is going to be the legal heir.

Sajid Bashir, former legal advisor CAA, said that under the Federal Accidents Act, there was no limit to airlineís liability incase of a crash. If someone invokes this law then the airline might have to settle the claim at a higher cost.


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## sparklingway

*CAA to release interim report in two months*​
ISLAMABAD: Flight ED202 was not given its orbit by the control tower as it prepared to land in Islamabad, said Director-General of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Junaid Amin at a press conference on Friday. He added that an interim report on the crash would be handed over to the government soon.

Orbit is the altitude given to planes to fly at before landing by the control tower, in case more than one plane in the vicinity is waiting to land at the same time. However, Amin added that the decision to land or divert to another airport was generally made by the captain of the aircraft and the control tower could not give him any instructions in this regard.

Amin explained the procedure the pilot was supposed to follow to land at Islamabad, saying that the plane should have taken a right turn followed by a left turn to come in parallel to Runway 12.

Runway 30 was not being used due to bad weather, said the DG. However, the plane veered right and continued on this course, heading straight for the Margalla Hills, according to Amin.

*Amin stressed that the conversation between the planes captain, Pervaiz Iqbal Chaudhry, and the control tower and the radar tower was absolutely normal without any trace of panic. The communication link between the plane and the tower remained intact until the crash occurred.

Amin rejected any notions that the pilot was fatigued or too old to fly. He said that only further investigations could reveal whether the plane developed any fault mid-flight.

The aviation authority chief said that a seven-member team comprising officials of the CAA and a pilot from Airblue had visited the site of the crash on Friday. They were accompanied by the 5-member French team from the manufacturers of the Airbus A 321 who had arrived in Pakistan on Thursday to help with the investigation.

Amin said the team had failed to recover the black box yet. The Flight Data Recorder (Black Box) and the Cockpit Voice Recorders (CVR) could not be located in todays search. The teams will make a breakthrough in this regard on Saturday hopefully, he said.

Amin said that once the box was recovered it will be sent to France to be decoded.*

The DG said the interim report on the investigations might be submitted in two months but this will not be an authentic inquiry report. Refusing to give a specific timeframe for the completion of the investigation, Amin said the inquiry report will be handed over to the government.

Only the black box would reveal what went wrong with the plane, from the conversation of the pilots and other details, Amin added.

The aviation authority head said the investigation will encompass every aspect of how and why the accident occurred. To a question, he said the alleged religious inclination of the pilot will also be investigated. He said the aircraft had modern air and ground warning systems but whether they had operated properly or not could only be ascertained from the data in the black box.

Airblues official line

Meanwhile, two days after flight ED 202 crashed into the Margalla Hills, Airblues Chief Operating Officer Shahid Khaqan Abbasi appeared before the public to announce compensation to the families of each crash victim.

At a news conference, Abbasi said Airblues insurer would pay at least Rs1 million to the kin of each victim as compensation in addition to paying $35 million, on account of the hull value of the plane.

Abbasi said the printed value of insurance at the back of each travel ticket was Rs1 million.

The final insurance package will be calculated by the reinsurer company in consultation with the Civil Aviation Authority and according to domestic insurance rules, which may be even more than this, he said. The government has already announced Rs500,000 as compensation to the kin of each victim. The insurance amount will be given out on top of that. He said Airblues insurer is The Willis Group, one of three leading aviation reinsurers.

Our next focus is providing compensation to the kin of the victims and for that a registration process has been started, he added. He said relatives can register on the Airblue website or can visit any Airblue office.

Abbasi said 102 bodies had been handed over to families and 62 DNA samples had been collected to identify remaining bodies. Abbasi also urged the government to make the finding of the investigation report public. Abbasi did not completely rule out sabotage as the cause of the crash. I cannot say anything with surety, however, so far there is no such evidence, he added.

Abbasi ruled out the possibility that the plane had a technical fault: The plane did not have any fault on record. It was a modern aircraft only 10 years old and had flown for 34,000 hours, which is a young age according to airline standards, he added.

He also brushed aside rumors that the pilot, the late Captain Pervez, was fatigued. He last flew a plane 36 hours before taking the ED 202 flight, said the chief operating officer. The pilot was 61 years old and had a lot of experience, flying 25,000 hours. According to international standards, a person can fly a plane till the age of 65, Abbasi added.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani directed the Interior Minister that the recovery operation following the crash had to be completed urgently.

Talking to Interior Minister Rehman Malik on Friday, the PM said all possible assistance must be extended to the families of the deceased. Malik said most bodies had been handed over to families after their identification. Earlier in the day, police and rescue teams recovered a few more bodies from the wreckage of the plane. (With additional input from wires)

Published in The Express Tribune, July 31st, 2010.


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## arsalan shafique

JUst oNE Ask oNe Question where is da black box???????

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## sparklingway

arsalan shafique said:


> JUst oNE Ask oNe Question where is da black box???????



You can close your conspiracy theories for the next two months now. One of the two CVRs had been recovered yesterday. The FDR it seems has now been found.

*Black box recovered, handed over to CAA*

Rescue workers at the site of the crash. PHOTO: QAZI USMAN

ISLAMABAD: In the latest development into the horrific airblue crash investigation, the black box has been found on Saturday which is crucial to determine the cause of the crash.

Sources said that the black box has been handed over to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).

Earlier today, a French team reached the crash site to look for evidence and black box. DG CAA, Junaid Amin has confirmed that the black box of the crashed plan has recovered. Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Data Recorder have also been recovered.

He said that a specialized kind of equipment is needed to decode it which is not available in Pakistan.


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## fawwaxs

*Crashed Air Blue flight's black box found *

ISLAMABAD: Recovery workers on Saturday found the ''black box'' flight data recorder from the wreckage of Pakistan's worst-ever plane crash, though its condition was unclear, a government official said.

The discovery could shed light on why the Airblue flight crashed Wednesday into the hills overlooking the Pakistani capital, Islamabad, killing all 152 people onboard.

The ''black box'' was found following a difficult recovery effort hampered by rain, mud and a lack of proper roads in the heavily forested Margalla Hills. It has been handed to aviation officials, said Ramzan Sajid, a spokesman for the Capital Development Authority, a government agency.

The plane - an Airbus A321 model - had been ordered to take an alternative approach to the runway at Islamabad airport but had apparently veered off course, the Civil Aviation Authority said earlier this week.

Officials said the plane had lost contact with the control tower before the crash, which occurred during stormy weather. &#8211; AP


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## Gin ka Pakistan

just came to know that the first officer was an ex F-16s polit of PAF and it was his second or third trip on Air Blue


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## Mujahid

*An official of Pakistan CAA carries the covered black box of crashed Airbus A321 at Margalla Hills in Islamabad on Saturday, 31 July 2010 *

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## mshoaib61

*What couldn&#8217;t be recovered from the site
*
Just the way you wouldn&#8217;t hand weapons to an untrained army, you wouldn&#8217;t hand cameras and a press pass to untrained media representatives. However, fact of the matter is that time and time again we are reminded that the latter has been taking place in Pakistan almost constantly.

A country expects its army to protect and defend them and similarly a country expects its media to responsibly broadcast news to them.

What we saw yesterday in the wake of an enormous national tragedy was not responsible reporting. We could not even wait a few hours before we started looking for suspects to pin the blame on. We couldn&#8217;t even wait to verify the death toll before reporting that there were 40 survivors. We couldn&#8217;t even let a day pass before inviting talk show guests to discuss conspiracy theories. And most of all, we couldn&#8217;t even focus on what the language we were using must sound like to a grief stricken nation.

Yes, 152 people died in the Margalla Hills. They perished. Their families are grieving. The rescue teams and media personnel who saw the crash site first hand must also be grieving. But we are a hasty nation. We want results, we want culprits named and we want to suck every emotion and thought out of your mind when we get a hold of you. And for all of that, we will tell you that the black box was found, even though headlines this morning state that is not the case. We can not play with people&#8217;s hopes and emotions &#8211; how do you even expect a nation to trust you?

Shoving the mic in the faces of crying relatives, the media asked &#8220;How do you feel?&#8221; How do you think they felt, respected colleagues? What was a reporter thinking when she boasted about running barefoot to be the first one to &#8216;break the news&#8217; for her channel?

Later at night, news channels could have easily invited weather experts, CAA officials, air force pilots who fly in those areas, geologists to explain the terrain and possibility of survival, and impact experts &#8211; what we got instead were officials who discussed the possibility of planes being shot down near the no-go zone.

Anchors harassed Rehman Malik to explain what happened and how the tragedy took place. Why would you ask Rehman Malik this question? I understand he is a government official but he doesn&#8217;t even know how security lapses allow suicide bombs to go off everyday, so how would you expect him to explain the technicalities of a plane crash?!

Perhaps we have become used to covering terrorist attacks in the most blatant way possible but we could have shown some sensitivity here. Since there was nothing but debris to show on the screens, cameraman panned the tattered chequebooks and broken make-up kits of the crash victims. Yes, because if I had just been killed in a horrible accident, my family would definitely want to see my belongings scattered next to my remains.

The pilot of the &#8220;doomed flight&#8221; is not sitting at home with his family. Neither is he facing an investigation of the accident. He is among the dead too. He has a family too. He was not a terrorist who wanted to take a plane full of people down with him. But we didn&#8217;t consider that when we immediately starting pointing out his age, his fatigue and his medical conditions. Even if there was a problem or a mistake at his end, lets wait for CAA and Air Blue&#8217;s official statements and investigation results before brandishing him as the one responsible for the tragedy.

Hundreds and thousands of us have travelled this airline before and because of their safe landing, we are sitting in front of our computer screens today. Yet all of a sudden we are complaining on public forums about what terrible landings travellers of the air line have to face. Guess what angry people &#8211; tons of flights often have bad landings but you cannot use that excuse to justify what happened yesterday.

I believe we are a curious nation but I do not believe we are an insensitive one. The prayers, the tears and the shock yesterday proved we have emotions &#8211; television channels played with those emotions yesterday. They didn&#8217;t realise that a mother of a victim was in shock before asking her what her daughter was like in person. They didn&#8217;t realise that flashing &#8220;honeymoon couple dead&#8221; on their tickers, would not be any more hard-hitting that the deaths of all of those who were not on their honeymoon.

I expect illiterate people or unbothered citizens not to read this but the media can and should read this. What are you doing? I may be just a few years old in this field and I may not understand the implications of being in a media ***-race, but nothing can justify what we did yesterday. Instead of giving the nation the sensitive and true reports it needed, we gave them traumatizing visuals and crude commentary.

I have spoken out loud about media ethics before but never have I felt as embarrassed as I do today to be considered a part of this &#8216;industry&#8217;. If any one in a position of authority understands this, take action and train your team. It&#8217;ll be the best public service you could do for a nation of lost souls.

Shyema Sajjad is the Deputy Editor at Dawn.com


The Dawn Blog Blog Archive What couldn&#8217;t be recovered from the site


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## arsalan shafique

sparklingway said:


> You can close your conspiracy theories for the next two months now. One of the two CVRs had been recovered yesterday. The FDR it seems has now been found.
> 
> it wasnt like that dude in airblue 320....more then 10 warning sytems are to warm terain ahead........it was pilot erroe or it was really shot down by army..........becoz no is made enough to push the plane 15 miles in mountains with 33000 flying hours.............!!!!!


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## Xeeshan

*DNA test results cause further confusion​*
ISLAMABAD: Results of about half of the DNA samples taken for matching came back on Friday. Instead of providing closure to the grieving families, many of the test results have revealed multiple matches for the samples collected.

All 152 passengers aboard the Airblue flight ED-202 were killed when the plane crashed in Margalla Hills near Islamabad on Wednesday morning last week. Many of the bodies were charred beyond recognition and the authorities asked relatives to provide blood and tissue samples to determine the identities of the remains.

There have been conflicting reports about the number of test results that have been sent back by the testing laboratory.

DC Amir Ali Islamabad Administration said that results of 25 of the 52
samples sent for matching had arrived.

Another senior official said that while nine of these samples were successfully matched and the bodies handed over to the relatives, the remaining *16 samples had multiple matches*. *Some DNA samples matched more than three coffins,* the senior official revealed. He added that it would take more time to identify the remaining bodies.

However, another senior official, on condition of anonymity, said that the actual number of results was 30.

The government, he said, did not release information about the remaining five test results because no matches were found.

To cause further confusion, Professor Dr Anwarul Haq, Head of Pathology Department at Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences, told The Express Tribune on Friday afternoon that KRL Hospital in G-9/1 had given them the results of 28 DNA tests. Most of the results however still need further testing for 100 per cent confirmation of identity, Dr Haq said.

He added that they had taken 216 DNA samples from the bodies and 52 blood, tissue and DNA samples from family members.

Seven samples had been sent in from other cities.

*The accuracy of the results, according to Dr Haq, is being marred by the fact that most of the samples have been taken from siblings. The tests results would be have been more accurate had parents given their DNA samples for the tests, he said.*

_Express tribune | 7th August_


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## Xeeshan

Although a little off-topic, but it gives an idea about how the technology is still in its advancement stages.
According to United Kingdom's Home office, in more than 50,000 instances since 2001, DNA samples taken from the crime scene resulted in multiple matches. This does not mean that the evidence is no use; most matches are quickly eliminated from police inquiries.

If so much redundancy in DNA samples could occur, while only (approximately) 216 families were tested. I wonder, what would have happened if (Khuda na khwasta) more families were involved.

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## fatman17

*Airblue A321 crash: No evidence of technical problems*

DATE:23/08/10

SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence news

By David Kaminski-Morrow

Preliminary inquiries into the fatal Airblue Airbus A321 accident outside Islamabad last month suggest the aircraft suffered no technical problems before the crash.

Flight ED202 had been attempting to land at the Pakistani capital on 28 July but struck terrain north of the airport.

Both the cockpit-voice and flight-data recorders have been successfully read by the French investigation agency Bureau d'Enquetes et d'Analyses.

This information has enabled investigators to "determine a preliminary analysis", says a source familiar with the inquiry.

"It is fair to say that the [investigators] should have everything they need to understand what happened," the source states, adding that there is "no indication of any technical malfunction".

"The cause of this accident seems to be on the operational side."

Airbus has informed operators of A320-family aircraft that it has "no specific recommendation to raise", effectively a statement that nothing points to a need for carriers to make technical checks or modify their operations.


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## fawwaxs

*Airblue cockpit had a third person *

ISLAMABAD: A team investigating the crash of the ill-fated Airblue jetliner on July 28 in Islamabad has detected the possible presence of a third person in the cockpit. Under normal circumstances, a cockpit is not supposed to have anyone other than the pilot and the co-pilot.

The investigators have reportedly heard the voice of a third person in the cockpit of the Airblue jetliner, a source close to the investigation told Dawn on condition of anonymity.

The voice has been extracted from the Cockpit Voice Recorder, according to the source, and the investigators were looking into various possibilities and aspects.

The CVR, which is part of the Black Box, is a flight recorder used to document the audio environment in the cockpit of an aircraft. In order to record and document the audio environment, microphones are installed in the pilots headsets and in the roof of the cockpit.

The source said that the data of communication between the control tower and the pilot were available with the investigators. Dawn has also learnt that the pilot and control tower communicated with each other for two minutes and 25 seconds.

Two teams are currently investigating the air crash in which 152 people were killed. One of them is headed by Air Commodore Khawaja Abdul Majeed, president of the Civil Aviation Authoritys Safety Investigation Board. It is focussing on human factors, possibility of technical fault and weather conditions.

The second team, headed by Federal Investigation Agency Director General Zafarullah Khan, has been assigned the task of investigating the possibility of sabotage.

The source said that investigators were trying to determine why the aircraft drifted five nautical miles away from its original route. The late pilot was very experienced and professional with thousands of flying hours under his belt; hence the fact that the plane strayed five nautical miles from the original route is also a cause for concern for investigators, he said. The source said that six investigators were yet to hold a joint meeting.

When asked if there was a third voice in the audio recording of the cockpit, CAA director general Air Commodore (retd) Junaid Amin told Dawn: I am not aware of the presence of a third person in the cockpit you cannot judge from the audio whether there was a third person.



No fault in Airblue aircraft



An analysis of the Black Box of the ill-fated Airblue aircraft which crashed on July 28 has revealed that it had no technical fault at the time of the accident.

In intimation to A-320 operators across the world, Airbus said there was no need to update the procedures or make fresh recommendations after the ED 202 crash because all flight systems were working normally before the aircraft slammed into the fog-covered mountains.

All 152 passengers on board were killed.

The advisory was based on a preliminary analysis of flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder by Bureau dEnquetes et dAnalyses.

A final outcome of the investigation may take months, but preliminary investigations have set the direction for the probe.

According to aviation experts, the Airbus communication implies that technical malfunctioning has been effectively ruled out as the cause of the incident and it is up to the investigation team constituted by the Civil Aviation Authority to determine if the crash occurred because of pilot error, bad weather, control tower fault or any other factor.

The cockpit voice recording readouts have also revealed that the pilots belatedly realised that they were flying into terrain. The first officer of the flight was heard screaming Sir, pull up, pull up moments before the crash.

This revelation has been supported by the findings of local investigators which show that before hitting the mountains the aircraft had climbed from 2,600 feet to 3,100 feet. The aircraft was circling for Runway 12, where it was to attempt visual landing.



Sources privy to the investigations believe the pilot got panicked after realising that he was flying into the terrain and had turned the autopilot heading bug to the left at more than 180 degrees.



The aircraft, experts say, takes the shortest possible route in such situation and instead of turning left moved towards right.

Why did the aircraft go so close to the hills? Several explanations are being dished out, but the most commonly heard of in the aviation circles say that the pilot while circling for Runway 12 was on Flight Management Computer, but instead of following the prescribed route he had probably created a visual circuit using place bearing distance waypoints that put him in the wrong place.

Insertion of place bearing distance waypoints is strictly prohibited by aircraft manufacturers because the Airbus FMC does not have a fix page capability, wherein a defined distance can be superimposed on the existing route.



The standard instructions are that any route that is not supported by a ground navigational aid should not be used.


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## BATMAN

sparklingway said:


> You can close your conspiracy theories for the *next two months* now. One of the two CVRs had been recovered yesterday. The FDR it seems has now been found.
> 
> *Black box recovered, handed over to CAA*
> 
> Rescue workers at the site of the crash. PHOTO: QAZI USMAN
> 
> ISLAMABAD: In the latest development into the horrific airblue crash investigation, the black box has been found on Saturday which is crucial to determine the cause of the crash.
> 
> Sources said that the black box has been handed over to the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).
> 
> Earlier today, a French team reached the crash site to look for evidence and black box. DG CAA, Junaid Amin has confirmed that the black box of the crashed plan has recovered. Flight Data Recorder and Cockpit Data Recorder have also been recovered.
> 
> He said that a specialized kind of equipment is needed to decode it which is not available in Pakistan.


 
Seems i missed the news report about the out come of black box data!

So what did it said... what went wrong and what about the conversation of pilot and control tower?


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## mean_bird

BATMAN said:


> Seems i missed the news report about the out come of black box data!
> 
> So what did it said... what went wrong and what about the conversation of pilot and control tower?



The investigation has found the cause of the crash and the report is out. However, as has been the case with CAA, the report is not going to be made public and hence, you and I, will never know for sure what happened. 

Someone needs to take this to court so that all air-crash investigation reports till date (and in future) be made public. Given that the govt. and ministry of defence do not like things being made public, and the other party, Airblue, is owned by a member of PMLN--the party that would have been interested in making such a case--there is little hope such a thing will happen.


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## BATMAN

^^ All ministries belong to Zardari and Gilani, and justice shall come out of Iftikhar ch. only they are to be blamed and God bless Pakistan.

Anyhow, This case was not a simple crash... the pilot was refused landing or forced to pull-up just before touch down.

This was also not the only plane crash around that period.


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## SQ8

The report is crystal clear..The pilot was fatigued.. 
entered the wrong nav points at takeoff..
The CVR has the co-pilot screaming "sir pull up".. but this guy refused to listen.
The reason the report is not out is because of the above.. imagine the effect on all the families..and how the pilots family would be able to face the rest of the public.


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## BATMAN

Santro said:


> The report is crystal clear..The pilot was fatigued..
> entered the wrong nav points at takeoff..
> The CVR has the co-pilot screaming "sir pull up".. but this guy refused to listen.
> The reason the report is not out is because of the above.. imagine the effect on all the families..and how the pilots family would be able to face the rest of the public.



Well it's not crystal clear to me at-least! and where did you got your story?

Definitely not from information ministry.


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## SQ8

BATMAN said:


> Well it's not crystal clear to me at-least! and where did you got your story?
> 
> Definitely not from information ministry.


 
Airblue pilots..
and other personnel at PALPA.


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## BATMAN

Santro said:


> Airblue pilots..
> and other personnel at PALPA.


 
Which part?

There is lots of controversy surrounding this plane, it is not enough for Airblue pilots to speak to your highness in person.
They need to go public with evidence i.e. black box.


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## mean_bird

Santro said:


> The report is crystal clear..The pilot was fatigued..
> entered the wrong nav points at takeoff..
> The CVR has the co-pilot screaming "sir pull up".. but this guy refused to listen.
> The reason the report is not out is because of the above.. imagine the effect on all the families..and how the pilots family would be able to face the rest of the public.



Airplanes don't just crash like that. There are a lot of safety checks and redundancies so it has to be more specific chain of events than just saying "pilot fatigue". And why would he "refuse to listen"? 

And what lessons, if any, then have been learnt from this? Or is it just...yeah, pilot was fatigued and thus flew straight into the mountains while co-pilot was uselessly screaming...no big deal, lets get over it? 

Besides, the co-pilot also has an identical control to have acted on his own. The air-traffic controller can see the plane wearing off course and the plane also have built-in systems to warn against ground clearance. Also, you usually have to select an airport rather than enter the nav point at take-off. You only select the way points in-between by entering the nav points. Also there is the DME, and you have clear landing charts and don't forget they were doing the alternate approach where you do the go-around. Clearly, you do not enter those points at take-off. 

So its not clear at all let alone crystal clear. And no CAA does not have a history of revealing reports or detailed causes of crashes so its got nothing to do with pilots families.


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## hembo

Do Pakistan have a "right to information" act, under which, GOP is bound to provide full & correct information available with them (unless related to national safety) if asked?


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## SQ8

mean_bird said:


> Airplanes don't just crash like that. There are a lot of safety checks and redundancies so it has to be more specific chain of events than just saying "pilot fatigue". And why would he "refuse to listen"?
> 
> And what lessons, if any, then have been learnt from this? Or is it just...yeah, pilot was fatigued and thus flew straight into the mountains while co-pilot was uselessly screaming...no big deal, lets get over it?
> 
> Besides, the co-pilot also has an identical control to have acted on his own. The air-traffic controller can see the plane wearing off course and the plane also have built-in systems to warn against ground clearance. Also, you usually have to select an airport rather than enter the nav point at take-off. You only select the way points in-between by entering the nav points. Also there is the DME, and you have clear landing charts and don't forget they were doing the alternate approach where you do the go-around. Clearly, you do not enter those points at take-off.
> 
> So its not clear at all let alone crystal clear. And no CAA does not have a history of revealing reports or detailed causes of crashes so its got nothing to do with pilots families.


 
Sir ji..
Then I better consider a senior captain at Airblue a complete BSer..
In his words.. 
The Captain was adamant that he was on the right course, the co-pilot realized this.. and can be heard remarking again and again to the Captain that he is off course..
Unless the said fellow had an agenda.. along with two other PALPA members.. like the A320 crash at the Paris Airshow.. the captain of the jet managed to outwit every safety system built into the jet. 
The info regarding the co-pilots protests was re-conveyed on the air force grapevine as well...
Im not shoving this down your throat.. you may believe the engine failure, stinger attack.. al-qaeda plot.. whichever..
This is the story that seems plausible to me.
As far as what was learnt.. 
too much authority resides with the Captain.. 
and the usual Pakistani approach of co-pilots being intimidated by their captains prevailed..
But then thats me.. as BATMAN puts it.. Holy alphabets.. Im royalty.


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## mean_bird

Santro said:


> Sir ji..
> Then I better consider a senior captain at Airblue a complete BSer..
> In his words..
> The Captain was adamant that he was on the right course, the co-pilot realized this.. and can be heard remarking again and again to the Captain that he is off course..
> Unless the said fellow had an agenda.. along with two other PALPA members.. like the A320 crash at the Paris Airshow.. the captain of the jet managed to outwit every safety system built into the jet.
> The info regarding the co-pilots protests was re-conveyed on the air force grapevine as well...
> Im not shoving this down your throat.. you may believe the engine failure, stinger attack.. al-qaeda plot.. whichever..
> This is the story that seems plausible to me.
> As far as what was learnt..
> too much authority resides with the Captain..
> and the usual Pakistani approach of co-pilots being intimidated by their captains prevailed..
> But then thats me.. as BATMAN puts it.. Holy alphabets.. Im royalty.


 
I am afraid then you didn't get my point.

I am in no way advocating for alqaeda, blackwater, stinger, etc...not at all. In fact, the most common cause of plane crashes is pilot error. Further, this certainly won't be the first case of a professional crew ending up with a classical CFIT accident. 

The point is its not only important to know how but also why. And also what should be done to improve safety. Clearly something somewhere failed for this crash to have happened. So just categorizing it as "fatigue" or "captain outwitted his plane" is not an acceptable answer. Nor is it crystal clear unless we have the answer to why a professional, experienced captain ended up doing that? and how a whole set of safety measures were "out-wittingly" breached?

Unless this is clearly answered, I am afraid we are just waiting for another pilot to "outwit" his plane and end up with the same fate.


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## Jango

an airplane crash cannot be totally blamed on the pilot fatigue....pilot ignorance...or anything else....theres a reason that there are two pilots in the cockpit....an airplane crash has a series of events behind it that cause a crash....


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## BATMAN

Santro said:


> Sir ji..
> Then I better consider a senior captain at Airblue a complete BSer..
> In his words..
> *The Captain was adamant that he was on the right course, the co-pilot realized this.. and can be heard remarking again and again to the Captain that he is off course*..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Highlighted part of your statement hints that you are relying more on heresy than the few known facts.
> Plane had already once abandoned his landing approach without any known reason.
> In his re-approach he went way too off course........ i would call such pilot passed out rather fatigued.
> Way too much time and reasons for the co-pilot to act, unless he was also passed out.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless the said fellow had an agenda.. along with two other PALPA members..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now what is this! counter argument to your self?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> like the A320 crash at the Paris Airshow.. the captain of the jet managed to outwit every safety system built into the jet.
> The info regarding the co-pilots protests was re-conveyed on the air force grapevine as well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Fair enough... all what we are asking is to disclose the data of black box and conversation details of cockpit and tower.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not shoving this down your throat.. you may believe the engine failure, stinger attack.. al-qaeda plot.. whichever..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are not offering enough choices... but you insist you are not shoving it down the throat!
> Its like 'are you with us or against us'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the story that seems plausible to me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Not to us, actually your story does not go along with the course of events.
> Moust un-plausible thing about your story is you didn't ask, even basic counter questions?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As far as what was learnt..
> too much authority resides with the Captain..
> and the usual Pakistani approach of co-pilots being intimidated by their captains prevailed..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you are pleading your case..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But then thats me.. as BATMAN puts it.. Holy alphabets.. Im royalty.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You are a mod at pdf........... you must be a royalty or working for royalty.
Click to expand...


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